Messages in AquaticLife group.

Page 1 of 1.

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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25208	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25209	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Substrate question - planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25210	From: Kevin	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: first person who like doing water changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25211	From: Kevin	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: PH Control
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25212	From: Kevin	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25213	From: bmp	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25214	From: Ken Sharpe	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25215	From: diane none	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25216	From: bmp	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25217	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25218	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25219	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: first person who like doing water changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25220	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: first person who like doing water changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25222	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25223	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25224	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25225	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25226	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25227	From: Diane	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: snails.. i had asked about getting rid of them
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25228	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: snails.. i had asked about getting rid of them
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25229	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: snails.. i had asked about getting rid of them
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25230	From: William	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25231	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25232	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: snails.. i had asked about getting rid of them
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25233	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25234	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25235	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25236	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25237	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25238	From: William	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25239	From: Kevin	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25240	From: Kevin	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: first person who like doing water changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25241	From: Kevin	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: first person who like doing water changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25242	From: Kevin	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25243	From: Kate	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25244	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25245	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: changing flters...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25247	From: Angela	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25248	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25249	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25250	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25251	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25252	From: Angela	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25253	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25254	From: Michael	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: live plant clippings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25255	From: Michael	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Does anyone near Harvard, IL 60033 want Water Wisteria LIVE PLANTS?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25256	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Another question - Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25257	From: Angela	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Another question - Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: live plant clippings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25259	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another question - Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25260	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25261	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: live plant clippings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25262	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another question - Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25263	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another question - Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25264	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: New fishaholic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25265	From: asbo032000	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: hEY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25266	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Bark background
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25267	From: ialreadytaken4	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: want to have live plants got q's 1st
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25268	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: live plant clippings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25269	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: want to have live plants got q's 1st
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25270	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: New fishaholic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25272	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: hEY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25273	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Bark background
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25274	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: want to have live plants got q's 1st
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25275	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25276	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Bark background
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25277	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Bark background
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25278	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: want to have live plants got q's 1st
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25279	From: asbo032000	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: Re: hEY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25280	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: Cork Bark Reference
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25281	From: pinkvock	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25282	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: Re: hEY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25283	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: Another question - Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25284	From: Christine	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: New Goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25285	From: bmp	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: Re: Another question - Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25286	From: Rei - Raymond Tremor	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: Re: Another question - Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25287	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25288	From: Red Terror	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25290	From: bmp	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25291	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25292	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25293	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25294	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25295	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25296	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25297	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25298	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25299	From: ipartyforfun	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25300	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25301	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25302	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25303	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25304	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25305	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25306	From: Bobby & Jennifer	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25307	From: Warren	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25308	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25309	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25310	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25311	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25312	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25313	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Totally off topic.. crates...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25315	From: ipartyforfun	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: Totally off topic.. crates...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25316	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25317	From: Colby	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Electric eels, et. al.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25318	From: rcdtrc	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25319	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25320	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25321	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25322	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25323	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25324	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: Electric eels, et. al.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25325	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25326	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25327	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25328	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25329	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25330	From: Angela	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [AquaticLife] Electric eels, et. al.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25331	From: diane none	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25332	From: William	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25333	From: Kit Mus	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25334	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25335	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25336	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: Adding New Fish in Multiples
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25337	From: William	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: Adding New Fish in Multiples
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25338	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/7/2008
Subject: overstocking
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25339	From: Kevin	Date: 1/7/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25340	From: Roberto Marchesini	Date: 1/7/2008
Subject: Hi everyone!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25341	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi everyone!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25342	From: taman.airku	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Hi !
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25343	From: brian_patrick_pierce06	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: looking for advice with my betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25344	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: looking for advice with my betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25345	From: Nur Kahnert	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: looking for advice with my betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25346	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Endlers Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25347	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Small Planted Tank Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25349	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Endlers Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25350	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25351	From: bmp	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Cutting the back strip on a Versa Top
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25352	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25353	From: tteitgen	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Aquarium Trim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25354	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Trim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25355	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Trim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25356	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25357	From: Jodi Lynn Reeves	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Adding a under the gravel filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Adding a under the gravel filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25359	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Cutting the back strip on a Versa Top
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25360	From: mlfrancis2001	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: looking for advice with my betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25361	From: William	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25362	From: Blue fish	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: View latest videos of Marine animals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25363	From: Andreas	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: nano cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25364	From: pbarry717	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Moving house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25365	From: Cory Walter	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25366	From: mlfrancis2001	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25367	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25368	From: Gem_vfr750	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: new to this group but need help on my fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25369	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: new to this group but need help on my fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25370	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: nano cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25371	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25372	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: nano cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25373	From: jabugladybug	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Help...fish stuck in biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25374	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help...fish stuck in biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25375	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25376	From: donna matherly	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: Help...fish stuck in biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25377	From: Judith Downing	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Aquarium magazines
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25378	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25379	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25380	From: Cleo H	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: new to this group but need help on my fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25381	From: Gem_vfr750	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: new to this group but need help on my fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25382	From: Gem_vfr750	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: new to this group but need help on my fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25383	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium magazines
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25384	From: pinkvock	Date: 1/11/2008
Subject: water advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25385	From: joe t	Date: 1/11/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25386	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/11/2008
Subject: Re: water advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25387	From: Tony	Date: 1/11/2008
Subject: Re: water advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25388	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 1/12/2008
Subject: API Nitrate Test kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25389	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/12/2008
Subject: Re: API Nitrate Test kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25390	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2008
Subject: Re: API Nitrate Test kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25391	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/12/2008
Subject: Offspring of Different Blind Cave Fish Can See
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25392	From: C.M.	Date: 1/12/2008
Subject: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25393	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: API Nitrate Test kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25394	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: API Nitrate Test kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25395	From: ljjh68	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: detritus worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25396	From: Jacqui	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: HELP my fish were being electrocuted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25397	From: Wendie	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25398	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: API Nitrate Test kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25399	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25400	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: detritus worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25401	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25402	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25403	From: jett07002	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Coloring Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25404	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: Coloring Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25407	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25408	From: Jacqui	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25409	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25410	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/14/2008
Subject: Re: Coloring Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25411	From: Gregg Taylor	Date: 1/14/2008
Subject: New to Oscars and needing help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25412	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2008
Subject: Re: New to Oscars and needing help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25413	From: Gregg Taylor	Date: 1/15/2008
Subject: Re: New to Oscars and needing help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25414	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/15/2008
Subject: Re: New to Oscars and needing help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25415	From: friendtoallfish	Date: 1/15/2008
Subject: red clawed crabs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25416	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 1/15/2008
Subject: Re: red clawed crabs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25417	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2008
Subject: Re: red clawed crabs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25418	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/16/2008
Subject: Plastic Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25420	From: rsteph49	Date: 1/16/2008
Subject: Need help picking fish for a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25421	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/16/2008
Subject: Re: Plastic Plant Care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25422	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25423	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 1/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25424	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 1/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25425	From: rsteph49	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25426	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25427	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25428	From: sirazgiga	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: RedSea Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25429	From: Farscape	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: Re: RedSea Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25430	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: Re: RedSea Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25431	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: Re: RedSea Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25432	From: Melissa	Date: 1/18/2008
Subject: Beginner's questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2008
Subject: Re: Beginner's questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25434	From: Melissa	Date: 1/18/2008
Subject: Re: Beginner's questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25435	From: Jodi Lynn Reeves	Date: 1/18/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25436	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/18/2008
Subject: Re: Beginner's questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25437	From: bmp	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Mopani wood v. Swahala wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25438	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25439	From: William	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: Beginner's questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25440	From: William	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: There is going to be a big aquarium auction on February 10
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25441	From: rcdtrc	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25442	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: There is going to be a big aquarium auction on February 10
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25443	From: James	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25444	From: James	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25445	From: rsteph49	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Can anyone suggest a good skimmer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25446	From: dtrc rc	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25447	From: William	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: There is going to be a big aquarium auction on February 10
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25448	From: smallron77	Date: 1/20/2008
Subject: Fake Aquarium Rocks "So Light and So Real Looking"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25449	From: Amy	Date: 1/20/2008
Subject: New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25450	From: Angela	Date: 1/20/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25451	From: Amy	Date: 1/20/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25452	From: Amy	Date: 1/20/2008
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25453	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Pea Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25454	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: Pea Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25455	From: Amy	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25456	From: Amy	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: Beginner's questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25457	From: Angela	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Re: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25458	From: rsteph49	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Question regarding algae growth in new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25459	From: Angela	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Question regarding algae growth in new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25460	From: Amy	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Re: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25461	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: Pea Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25462	From: rsteph49	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Question regarding algae growth in new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25463	From: Curtis Taylor	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: Pea Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25464	From: Ken Sharpe	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: Pea Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25465	From: Angela	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Question regarding algae growth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25466	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/22/2008
Subject: Pea Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25467	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2008
Subject: Re: Pea Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25468	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/22/2008
Subject: Neons/Endlers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25469	From: bmp	Date: 1/22/2008
Subject: Re: Neons/Endlers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25470	From: Vanessa	Date: 1/22/2008
Subject: Hey thats my turtle!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25471	From: harry perry	Date: 1/22/2008
Subject: Re: Hey thats my turtle!/Vanessa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25472	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25473	From: Bethany	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25474	From: Bethany	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Turtle Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25475	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25476	From: Bethany	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25477	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25478	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Cycling Question/Pea Gravel Again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25479	From: tonya shriver	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25480	From: bruce cohen	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: fish stores Run Run Run away
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25481	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling Question/Pea Gravel Again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25482	From: Bethany	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Goldfish and Turtles compatible??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25483	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Substrate Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25484	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25485	From: rcdtrc	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Turtles compatible??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25486	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25487	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Turtles compatible??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25488	From: jabugladybug	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: How to get nitrate level down
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25489	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25490	From: bmp	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25491	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling Question/Pea Gravel Again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25492	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25493	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25494	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25495	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25496	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25497	From: bmp	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25498	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25499	From: Ken Sharpe	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25500	From: Hamrad	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25501	From: hamrad45	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25502	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25503	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25504	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25505	From: Angela	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25506	From: bruce cohen	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: wallmart vs petco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25507	From: Brian Pierce	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25508	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25509	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25510	From: jabugladybug	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: How to get nitrate level down
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25511	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25512	From: aaron102272	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25513	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25514	From: James	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25515	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25516	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25518	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25519	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25520	From: Angela	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25521	From: Frederic Ouellet	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25522	From: William	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25523	From: Rich	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: New member, stocking question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25524	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25525	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: New member, stocking question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25527	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: New member, stocking question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25528	From: Amy	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: wallmart vs petco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25529	From: Amy	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Labelled My Pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25530	From: Blue fish	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25531	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25532	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25533	From: iowakoi	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: New member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25534	From: o1bigtenor	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25535	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25536	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25537	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25538	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25539	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25540	From: o1bigtenor	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25541	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25542	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25543	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25544	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25545	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25546	From: John Hawley	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: University of Minnesota KHV Testing & Carp Control Research
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25547	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25548	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25549	From: Anndrea	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: New to group, new to aquariums (long post, sorry)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25550	From: William	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25551	From: William	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: New to group, new to aquariums (long post, sorry)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25552	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25553	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25554	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25555	From: Anndrea S	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: New to group, new to aquariums (long post, sorry)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25556	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25557	From: clubsprint	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Newbie community question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25558	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: New to group, new to aquariums (long post, sorry)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25559	From: Blue fish	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: View latest videos of Marine animals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25560	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25561	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Sorry,65 gal.Tall,new,stocking suggestions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25562	From: rn_ple	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: another introduction....newbie...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25563	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: another introduction....newbie...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25564	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: another introduction....newbie...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25565	From: ED	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25566	From: William	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: another introduction....newbie...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25567	From: Kate	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25568	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25569	From: Angel Phillips	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25570	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25571	From: Angel Phillips	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25572	From: Angel Phillips	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25574	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25575	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25576	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25577	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25578	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25579	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25580	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry,65 gal.Tall,new,stocking suggestions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25581	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25582	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25583	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25584	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25585	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25586	From: Diane	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: elephant fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25587	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry,65 gal.Tall,new,stocking suggestions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25588	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry,65 gal.Tall,new,stocking suggestions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25589	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25590	From: hank voss	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25591	From: Blue fish	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25592	From: ED	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25593	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25594	From: ED	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: elephant fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25595	From: ED	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: elephant fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25596	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Inkfin Calvus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25597	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: The sound of glass breaking,ahhhh
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25598	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: another introduction....newbie...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25599	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25600	From: Kevin	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: 2 questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25601	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: The sound of glass breaking,ahhhh
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25602	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: 2 questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25603	From: ED	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25604	From: ED	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25605	From: ED	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Black Ghost Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25606	From: whjordan83	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25607	From: Andreas	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25608	From: in_my_mind19	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: cichlid identification
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25609	From: blueyz75@charter.net	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: introductions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25610	From: Kevin	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: 2 questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25611	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: 2 questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25612	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: cichlid identification
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25613	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: cichlid identification
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25614	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: cichlid identification
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25615	From: ED	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25616	From: ED	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25617	From: whjordan83	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25618	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25619	From: ED	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25620	From: jviswakula	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Aquarium Network /Auction/Webstore
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25621	From: in_my_mind19	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: cichlid identification
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25622	From: Di	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Just uploaded a few new pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25623	From: coryswalter	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Thoughts on Skilters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25624	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: 2 questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25625	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Gourami valium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25626	From: ED	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Giant salamander
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25627	From: Jenn	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25628	From: Jenn	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: cichlid identification
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25629	From: Jenn	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25630	From: Jenn	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Adding a store to the LFS section
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25631	From: Kate	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25632	From: William	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25633	From: jason horyak	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: requesting recommendations
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25634	From: Amy	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Turbo Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25635	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25636	From: jason horyak	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25637	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25638	From: exquisitebeauty1976	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: advice please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25639	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25640	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: advice please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25641	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25642	From: bmp	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25643	From: Jenn	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25644	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Giant salamander
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25645	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25646	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25647	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25648	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25650	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25651	From: AquaticLife™	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25653	From: Widi Rahman	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: new tips
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25654	From: wil	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Nano fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25655	From: Jenn	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25656	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25657	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25658	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25659	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25660	From: rsteph49	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Question about diatoms in tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25661	From: maybelline101	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25662	From: bmp	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Soaking mopani wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25663	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Soaking mopani wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25664	From: William	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Soaking mopani wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25665	From: weiyuansun	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Good web site for fish food and aquriums maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25666	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25667	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Soaking mopani wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25668	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Soaking mopani wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25669	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Soaking mopani wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25670	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Good web site for fish food and aquriums maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25671	From: andrewhall999	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Juwel Users Forum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25672	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Juwel Users Forum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25673	From: jules27au	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Community Fish Tank - Suggestions Please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25674	From: Peaches	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25675	From: Weiyuan Sun	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Good web site for fish food and aquriums maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25676	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25677	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25678	From: William	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Community Fish Tank - Suggestions Please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25679	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25680	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25681	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25682	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25683	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25684	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25685	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25686	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25687	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Community Fish Tank - Suggestions Please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25688	From: ED	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25689	From: ED	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25690	From: Zinfin	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Community Fish Tank - Suggestions Please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25691	From: ED	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Giant salamander
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25692	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25693	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25694	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25695	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25696	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25697	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25698	From: ED	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25699	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25700	From: Tonya	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25701	From: Tonya	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25702	From: Wendie	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25703	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25705	From: derwag	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25706	From: tonya shriver	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25707	From: nice6669	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: fresh water rays
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25708	From: Jenn	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25709	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25710	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25711	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: fresh water rays
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25712	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: fresh water rays
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25713	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25714	From: Gregg	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Terrible day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25715	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: fresh water rays
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25716	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25717	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25718	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25719	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25720	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25721	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25722	From: hank voss	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25723	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25725	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25726	From: ED	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25727	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25728	From: ED	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25729	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25730	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25731	From: ED	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25732	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25733	From: ED	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Angel Breeding Info
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25734	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Breeding Info
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25735	From: ED	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Breeding Info
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25736	From: Anita	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25737	From: Cory Walter	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25738	From: Jim	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25739	From: ED	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25740	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25741	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25742	From: Cory Walter	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25743	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25744	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25745	From: bmp	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25746	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25747	From: maybelline101	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25748	From: Anita	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25749	From: Anita	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25750	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25751	From: Jim	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: What's wrong with Oprah?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25752	From: Jenn	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25753	From: Jenn	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Best algae eater EVER!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25754	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Oprah?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25755	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Best algae eater EVER!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25756	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Oprah?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25757	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25758	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25759	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25760	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25761	From: mitra19822003	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Oprah?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25762	From: Anita	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25763	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Oprah?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25764	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Oprah?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25765	From: Paula Brown	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Pleco Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25766	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25767	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25768	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Pleco Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25769	From: Anita	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25770	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: cichlid identification
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25771	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25772	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25773	From: Kelly	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: New and in trouble already!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25774	From: Cory Walter	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: New and in trouble already!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25775	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: New and in trouble already!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25776	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: New and in trouble already!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25777	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25778	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: New and in trouble already!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25779	From: Gregg	Date: 2/7/2008
Subject: Shelties vs. Border Collies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25780	From: Gregg	Date: 2/7/2008
Subject: Guppies and Kermit the Crab
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25781	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 2/7/2008
Subject: Rescue work -Off topic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25782	From: rahj_dg	Date: 2/7/2008
Subject: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25783	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/7/2008
Subject: Should I sell my convicts?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25784	From: Abbey	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Recurring Ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25785	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Recurring Ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25786	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Recurring Ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25787	From: Rhonda Wilson	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25788	From: bmp	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25789	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Shelties vs. Border Collies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25790	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Recurring Ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25791	From: rsteph49	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Need Suggestions for cleaning crew
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25792	From: bruce cohen	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Need Suggestions for cleaning crew
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25793	From: Kelly	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Kermit the Crab Died :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25794	From: Cory Walter	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Kermit the Crab Died :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25795	From: Angela	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Kermit the Crab Died :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25796	From: bmp	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Guppies and Kermit the Crab and the Border Wall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25797	From: Abbey	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Recurring Ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25798	From: Abbey	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Recurring Ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25799	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Recurring Ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25800	From: Jenn	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25801	From: Jenn	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Not in regards to fish, but cool anyway...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25802	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25803	From: nice6669	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: fillters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25804	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: fillters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25805	From: Davis	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: "Mini" reef ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25806	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Rain Forrests and Shore Lines
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25807	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forrests and Shore Lines
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25808	From: iowakoi	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Spring pond care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25809	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Should I sell my convicts?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25810	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forrests and Shore Lines
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25811	From: Ron	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: fillters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25812	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25813	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: fillters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25814	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25816	From: �H3ATH3R�	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25817	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25818	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25819	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25820	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25821	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25822	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: Betta feeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25823	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25824	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: Re: Betta feeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25825	From: bmp	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie/Danios
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25826	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie/Betty
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25827	From: runescapeboy07	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: little help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: Re: little help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25829	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Re: little help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25830	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Re: "Mini" reef ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25832	From: Becky	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: New here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25833	From: Blue fish	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25834	From: Dan	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Conversion time...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25835	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Re: Conversion time...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25836	From: Kelly	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: There is yucky stuff in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25837	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25838	From: Kelly	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25839	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25840	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Shelties vs. Border Collies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25841	From: Kelly	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25842	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25843	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25844	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25845	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25846	From: Sigbackoffice	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25847	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25848	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25849	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25850	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25851	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25852	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25854	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25855	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25856	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25857	From: Dale	Date: 2/14/2008
Subject: Re: "Mini" reef ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25858	From: Amy	Date: 2/14/2008
Subject: HELP.......Anyone know what to do with a tadpole?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25859	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2008
Subject: Re: HELP.......Anyone know what to do with a tadpole?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25860	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 2/14/2008
Subject: Re: HELP.......Anyone know what to do with a tadpole?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25861	From: Amy	Date: 2/14/2008
Subject: Re: HELP.......Anyone know what to do with a tadpole?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25862	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: "Mini" reef ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25863	From: Heather	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: What fish would work well with danios?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25864	From: Debra	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25865	From: Heather	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25866	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25867	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25868	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25869	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25870	From: s.billock	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: New member looking for advice in first saltwater setup
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25871	From: Jenn	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25872	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25873	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25874	From: luke leming	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: my first plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25875	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: my first plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25876	From: Jim	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25877	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25878	From: luke leming	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25879	From: luke leming	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: my first plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25880	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: my first plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25881	From: James	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25882	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25883	From: James	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: my first plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25884	From: Wendie	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25885	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25886	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25887	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25888	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25889	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25890	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25891	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25893	From: arunkhinchi70	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25894	From: Blue fish	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: View latest videos of Marine animals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25895	From: kathy	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25896	From: Heather	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: can i send someone pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25897	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Trying to send pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25898	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Trying to send pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25899	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25900	From: harry perry	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25901	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25903	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25904	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25905	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25906	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25907	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25908	From: kathy wells	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25909	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25910	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25911	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25912	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25913	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25914	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25915	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25916	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25917	From: kathy wells	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25918	From: blclcc1	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25919	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25920	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25921	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25922	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25923	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25924	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25925	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25927	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25928	From: ED	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25929	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25930	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Cleaning artificial plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25931	From: Chad Plum	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning artificial plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25932	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning artificial plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25933	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25934	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25935	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25936	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Thanks John
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25937	From: Debra	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25938	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25939	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25940	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning artificial plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25941	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25942	From: Jim	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Home-made slates for eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25943	From: Sigbackoffice	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Hair Algae Outbreak
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25944	From: Sigbackoffice	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25945	From: Sigbackoffice	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: New Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25946	From: Amy	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: tadpole update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25947	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: tadpole update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25948	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: New Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25949	From: Pat Jellison	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25950	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: ATTN: Business Owners and Group Owners - Free Advertising
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25951	From: Amy	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: tadpole update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25952	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25953	From: Richdeer3 Pond Supplies	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25954	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25955	From: kathy wells	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25956	From: olesonjo	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: adopted goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25957	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: adopted goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25958	From: tomentosus	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: marine salt for feshwater aquiariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: marine salt for feshwater aquiariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25960	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: marine salt for freshwater aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25961	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: marine salt for feshwater aquiariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25962	From: pinkvock	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25963	From: babsdvs	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25964	From: splitscreenvol	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: marine tank ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25965	From: joelsmum1999	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Fuzz on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25966	From: the_skull_of_truth	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: FISH FORUM!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25967	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25968	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25969	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25970	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: Fuzz on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25971	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: marine tank ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25972	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25973	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25974	From: joelsmum1999	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Fuzz on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25975	From: JFazio	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: white on mouth of tetra/angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25976	From: joe t	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25978	From: margo0621	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Just stardted :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25979	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Just stardted :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25980	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Just stardted :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25981	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25982	From: sheriartist57	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: gourami fry,3 days old
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25983	From: sheriartist57	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Dwarf Gourami Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25984	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25985	From: asbo032000	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: OH DEAR
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25986	From: Jenn	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Blue-green algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25987	From: olesonjo	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: adopted goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25988	From: sheriartist57	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Blue-green algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25989	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Blue-green algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25990	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Salt Water tanks for Beginners
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25991	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: gourami fry,3 days old
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25992	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25993	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Blue-green algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25994	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25995	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25996	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25997	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25998	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25999	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26000	From: Melissa	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26001	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26002	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26004	From: Jenn	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Blue-green algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26005	From: Jenn	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Back to the breeding question...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26006	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26007	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26008	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26009	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26010	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Back to the breeding question...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26011	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: gourami fry,3 days old
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26012	From: sheriartist57	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Informative page on algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26013	From: sheriartist57	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: gourami fry,3 days old
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26014	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26015	From: ED	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26016	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26017	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: n00b Betta questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26018	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Home-made slates for eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26019	From: Jenn	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Back to the breeding question...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26020	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26021	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26022	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: n00b Betta questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26023	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: n00b Betta questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26024	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Correction about Betta Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26025	From: Margarita	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Just stardted :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26026	From: pennyleehaynee	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: stocking a tall tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26027	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: stocking a tall tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26028	From: kathy wells	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Salt Water tanks for Beginners
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26029	From: harry perry	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: gourami fry,3 days old/I breed gouramis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26030	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: what else would you recommend?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26031	From: bruce cohen	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Salt Water tanks for Beginners
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26032	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: what else would you recommend?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26033	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26034	From: Kevin	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: question about my female betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26035	From: agolden85	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: New to this...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26036	From: Robert 1	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: New to this...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26037	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: New to this...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26038	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: n00b Betta questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26039	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26040	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: water evaporating problem.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26041	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: water evaporating problem.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26042	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: water evaporating problem.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26043	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: water evaporating problem.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26044	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: water evaporating problem.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26045	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: New to this...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26046	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: For the collectors of things fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26047	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Make your own 220 volt backup power supply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26048	From: Amy	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Hey that is my "Thing"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26049	From: Amy	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: for Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26050	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: Make your own 220 volt backup power supply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26051	From: Amy	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Grass Valley, CA
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26052	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: Grass Valley, CA
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26053	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: for Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26054	From: coryswalter	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Angel question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26055	From: Amy	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: for Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26056	From: JFazio	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: for Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26057	From: Jim	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Pics posted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26058	From: deborahgd14	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Egg pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26059	From: nicolettewall	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Help!! I have a question about my fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26060	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help!! I have a question about my fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26061	From: nate	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26062	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26063	From: Nathan Eshleman	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26064	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26065	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Coldwater aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26066	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Coldwater aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26067	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Coldwater aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26068	From: ED	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: water evaporating problem.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26069	From: Paula Brown	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26070	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Removing Algae from artificial plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26071	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26072	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26073	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Removing Algae from artificial plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26075	From: Shelley Kate Coffman	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26076	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: newbie question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26077	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: newbie question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26078	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: newbie question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26079	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26080	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: FW: [AquaticLife] newbie question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26081	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26082	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: newbie question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26083	From: Jim	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: What's going on?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26084	From: Jim	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: newbie question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26085	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26086	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: newbie question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26087	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: What's going on?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26088	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: What's going on?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26089	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26090	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26092	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26093	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26095	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Swordtails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26096	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26097	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26098	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26099	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Dead goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26100	From: Luke	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: angel fish chokeing?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26101	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Dead goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26102	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Dead goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26103	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Dead goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26104	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Dead goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26105	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26106	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Dead goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26107	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26108	From: Frederic Ouellet	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26109	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26110	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26111	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26112	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: newbie question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26113	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26114	From: ED	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: angel fish chokeing?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26115	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26116	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26117	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26118	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26119	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26120	From: Jon Pearl - W4ABC	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26122	From: fhzcmc	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: messenger fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26123	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Pregnant Platy ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26124	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26125	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Source of Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26126	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Source of Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26127	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26128	From: Me	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26129	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: messenger fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26130	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26131	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Source of Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26132	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26133	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Source of Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26134	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26135	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26136	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Source of Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26137	From: ipartyforfun	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Source of Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26138	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Source of Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26139	From: ED	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26140	From: ED	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26141	From: babsdvs	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Small pet shops
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26142	From: Melissa	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26143	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: book suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26144	From: AquaticLife™	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26145	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: book suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26146	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26148	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Small pet shops
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26149	From: Melissa	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26150	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26151	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26152	From: bmp	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26154	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26155	From: Melissa	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26156	From: ED	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26157	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Small pet shops
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26158	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26159	From: joe t	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26160	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26161	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: UV Sterilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26162	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: UV Sterilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26163	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: UV Sterilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26164	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26165	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Small pet shops
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26166	From: Debra	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Looking for a name
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26167	From: ED	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26168	From: Debra	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26169	From: Debra	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26170	From: Jim	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26171	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26172	From: Jim	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26173	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26174	From: rsteph49	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26176	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question (for Lenny)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26177	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26178	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26179	From: bmp	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26180	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26181	From: bmp	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26182	From: bmp	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26183	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26184	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Big white spot on my swordtail?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26185	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26186	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26187	From: bmp	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26188	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Big white spot on my swordtail?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26189	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Big white spot on my swordtail?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26190	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26191	From: rsteph49	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26192	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Injured Angel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26193	From: Richdeer3 Pond Supplies	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26194	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Injured Angel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26195	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Tank design/arrangement help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26196	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26197	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Tank design/arrangement help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26198	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: UV Sterilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26199	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: New Question - Tank design/arrangement help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26200	From: ED	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26201	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Small pet shops
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26202	From: ED	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26203	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26204	From: ED	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26205	From: harry perry	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri/Algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26206	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26207	From: harry perry	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, /Algae eaters, another link
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26208	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26209	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: New Question - Tank design/arrangement help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26210	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Small pet shops
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26212	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26213	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26214	From: joe t	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26215	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26216	From: Blue fish	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26217	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Ghost Knife Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26218	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26219	From: Andreas	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ghost Knife Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26220	From: Debra	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Fresh vegetables
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26222	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26223	From: Debra	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26224	From: judy_be	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: aquarium furniture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26225	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: aquarium furniture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26226	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: aquarium furniture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26227	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: aquarium furniture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26228	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: aquarium furniture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26229	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Siamese Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26230	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Siamese Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26231	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Siamese Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26232	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Nitrates in the Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26233	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26234	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26235	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26236	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26237	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26238	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26239	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Ghost Knife Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26240	From: William J. Scott	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: aquarium furniture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26241	From: Tina	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: new and I have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26242	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Siamese Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26243	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium (now a little more about Purigen)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26244	From: babsdvs	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26245	From: Tina Stawicki	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: new and I have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26247	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: new and I have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26248	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Potted Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26249	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: new and I have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26250	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26251	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium (now a little more about Purigen)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26252	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26253	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26254	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26255	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26256	From: Jenn	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Tank mate suggestions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26257	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Tank mate suggestions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26259	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26260	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26261	From: Tina Stawicki	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: new and I have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26262	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: new and I have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26263	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Undergravel Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26264	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26265	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26266	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ghost Knife Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26267	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ghost Knife Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26268	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26269	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Undergravel Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26271	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Online sites to buy aquarium plants ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26272	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26273	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Under gravel filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26274	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26275	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Under gravel filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26276	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Under gravel filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26277	From: luke leming	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: wierd fuzzy little things on my plant?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26278	From: Rob and Amy Zerkle	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: The Columbus Ohio FIsh Club is having a swap and sale on saturday Ma
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26279	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Quality Fish Stores in Cleveland Ohio?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26280	From: nice6669	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Quality Fish Stores in Cleveland Ohio?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26281	From: jason horyak	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Quality Fish Stores in Cleveland Ohio?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26282	From: Debra	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: F/U: Fresh vegetables
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26283	From: circus0s	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: guppies,please help!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26284	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Online sites to buy aquarium plants ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26285	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Online sites to buy aquarium plants ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26286	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: F/U: Fresh vegetables
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26287	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Under gravel filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26288	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Online sites to buy aquarium plants ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26289	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26290	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Aquatic Plant Reference page
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26291	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Rainbow fish reference site
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26292	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Undergravel Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26293	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26294	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Undergravel Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26295	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Undergravel Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26296	From: babsdvs	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26297	From: ED	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26298	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Undergravel Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26299	From: ED	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Used Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26300	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Undergravel Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26301	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26302	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: guppies,please help!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26303	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Guppies reference page
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26304	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Concerned and curious?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26305	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Quality Fish Stores in Cleveland Ohio?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26306	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Concerned and curious?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26307	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Concerned and curious?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26308	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Tank mate suggestions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26309	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26310	From: Tim Fairchild	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Rainbow fish reference site
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26311	From: ED	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26312	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26313	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Lights and algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Lights and algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26315	From: sim.amaranth	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: is RO water absolutely necessary for Discus?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26316	From: bruce cohen	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: is RO water absolutely necessary for Discus?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26317	From: Nicolette Wall	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Help!! I have a question about my fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26318	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: is RO water absolutely necessary for Discus?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26319	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Help!! I have a question about my fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26320	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Rainbow fish reference site
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26321	From: ED	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: is RO water absolutely necessary for Discus?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26322	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26323	From: ED	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26324	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: is RO water absolutely necessary for Discus?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26325	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: "old-school" gravel cleaner?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26326	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Plant Stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26327	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26328	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26329	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Plant Stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26330	From: mbsvmonkey	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26331	From: circus0s	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: guppies,please help!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26332	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26333	From: Tim Fairchild	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Rainbow fish reference site
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26334	From: Blue fish	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26335	From: Rhonda Wilson	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26336	From: ED	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: is RO water absolutely necessary for Discus?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26337	From: ED	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26338	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26339	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Lights and algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26340	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Gravel Cleaner/Siphon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26341	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26342	From: jgana10	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26343	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26344	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Playfull betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26345	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26346	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26347	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26348	From: Rhonda Wilson	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water, Salt flats, basements, moving fishrooms, lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26349	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Sick Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26350	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaner/Siphon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26351	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26352	From: Debra	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26353	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26354	From: ED	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26355	From: ED	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26356	From: jgana10	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26357	From: jgana10	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26358	From: Jason Miller	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: new
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26359	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: new
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26360	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: plants arrived - now what? =)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26361	From: Debra	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: plants arrived - now what? =)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26362	From: armstrongm44	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Seahorses
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26363	From: circus0s	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: should i be worried?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26364	From: bmp	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: plants arrived - now what? =)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26365	From: Jim	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Stocking a 20 Gallon Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26366	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking a 20 Gallon Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26367	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water, Salt flats, basements, moving fishrooms, lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26368	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Question about salt?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26369	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26371	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26372	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: plants arrived - now what? =)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26373	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26374	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26375	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26376	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking a 20 Gallon Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26377	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water, Salt flats, basements, moving fishrooms, lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26378	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26379	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26380	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26381	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26382	From: Tim Fairchild	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26383	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26384	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26385	From: Amy	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: An Alliance? Perhaps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26386	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26387	From: Tim Fairchild	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26388	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: should i be worried?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26389	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Fish releasing eggs???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26390	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water, Salt flats, basements, moving fishrooms, lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26391	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26392	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Fish releasing eggs???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26394	From: hank voss	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Fish releasing eggs???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26395	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26396	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26397	From: Jason Miller	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: new
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26398	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Fish releasing eggs???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26399	From: jgana10	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26400	From: renee31477	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26401	From: Amy	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26402	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Seahorses
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26403	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Seahorses
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26404	From: Kris	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: White Cloud Mountain Minnows
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: White Cloud Mountain Minnows
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: White Cloud Mountain Minnows
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26407	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26408	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26409	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26410	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26411	From: armstrongm44	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Seahorses
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26412	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Question on white poo subject.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26413	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Seahorses
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26414	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26415	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Question on white poo subject.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26416	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26417	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26418	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Question on white poo subject.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26419	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Disease question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26420	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: My crazy Golden "Chinese" Algae Eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26421	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: My crazy Golden "Chinese" Algae Eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26422	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: My crazy Golden "Chinese" Algae Eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26423	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Lead weights-caution
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26424	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Lead weights-caution
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26425	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Lead weights-caution
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26426	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Seahorses
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26427	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Lead weights-caution
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26428	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Lead weights-caution
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26429	From: Debra Melton	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26430	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26431	From: William J. Scott	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26432	From: Amy	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26434	From: Amy	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26435	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: silly question????????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26436	From: kathy wells	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26437	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: silly question????????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26438	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: reference for heavy metals in aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26439	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Lead weights-caution
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26440	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: silly question????????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26441	From: Debra	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26442	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: reference for heavy metals in aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26443	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26444	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26445	From: ED	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26446	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: silly question????????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26447	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26448	From: hank voss	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: silly question????????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26449	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: Cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26450	From: ED	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: Cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26451	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Platy in the plant...?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26452	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: False Alarm on Platy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26453	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: Platy in the plant...?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26454	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: Platy in the plant...?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26455	From: renee31477	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26456	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26457	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26458	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26459	From: Beverly	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: Cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26460	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26461	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: My 220 gal. low light tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26462	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: My 220 gal. low light tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26463	From: ED	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: Cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26464	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26465	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: My 220 gal. low light tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26466	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26467	From: Debra	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: My 220 gal. low light tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26468	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: RE : RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26469	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: My 220 gal. low light tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26470	From: Richdeer3 Pond Supplies	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Fun facts to share
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26471	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26472	From: waves02	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: large goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26473	From: Chris	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26474	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26475	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26476	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: large goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26477	From: skurjak	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26478	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26479	From: kathy	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Help: red/purple slime algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26480	From: waves02	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: large goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26481	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26482	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26483	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26484	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26485	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26486	From: renee31477	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26487	From: renee31477	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: plants in 10 gallon ( WAS Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26488	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: plants in 10 gallon ( WAS Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26489	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Help: red/purple slime algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26490	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] plants in 10 gallon ( WAS Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Ligh
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26491	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] plants in 10 gallon ( WAS Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Ligh
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26492	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26493	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : RE : RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26494	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: My 220 gal. low light tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26495	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26496	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Plant Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26497	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26498	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it o
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26499	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26500	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26501	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] 10 Gallon Hood/Light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26502	From: Amy	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Update on the Guppie who swims with "Sharks"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26503	From: michelle_brown134	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Do To Issues Beyond My Control, I Must Leave
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26504	From: scrapbookjulia	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: HELP!! Baffled by Fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26505	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Do To Issues Beyond My Control, I Must Leave
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26506	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Do To Issues Beyond My Control, I Must Leave
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26507	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Help: red/purple slime algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26508	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP!! Baffled by Fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26509	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Sick Betta Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26510	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26511	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26512	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: help with cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26513	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26514	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26515	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26516	From: scrapbookjulia	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP!! Baffled by Fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26517	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26518	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26519	From: Dave Shives	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Sanding down an acrylic tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26520	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26521	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26522	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26523	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26524	From: Dave Shives	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26525	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP!! Baffled by Fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26527	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26528	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26529	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light,
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26530	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] help with cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26531	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26532	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26533	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26534	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26535	From: Pam Briggs	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Quality Fish Stores in Cleveland Ohio?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26536	From: Chad Plum	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Quality Fish Stores in Cleveland Ohio?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26537	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26538	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Guppy Killers?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26539	From: ED	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26540	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: best way to move?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26541	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26542	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26543	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26544	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: best way to move?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26545	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Painted Tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26546	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26547	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Stones
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26548	From: ED	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Stones
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26549	From: ED	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Painted Tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26550	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26551	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26552	From: ~:*''*:~ Dee~:*''*:~	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: new and my intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26553	From: waves02	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: help again..=(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26554	From: Russ Foley	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: New Member and help needed already eh? Pregnant Guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26555	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Acrylic tank scratches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26556	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: help again..=(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26557	From: ipartyforfun	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Questions about my pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26558	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Painted Tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26560	From: waves02	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: help again..=(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26561	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Stones
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26562	From: lauragalbraithrn@comcast.net	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: best way to move?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26563	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Painted Tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26564	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26565	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26566	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: help again..=(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26567	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Member and help needed already eh? Pregnant Guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26568	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about my pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26569	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: New Member and help needed already eh? Pregnant Guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26570	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: best way to move?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26571	From: Bobby & Jennifer	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about my pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26572	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26573	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26574	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26575	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26576	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26577	From: waves02	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: help again..=(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26578	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about my pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26579	From: Russ Foley	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Russ and Sarah Welcome New Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26580	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26581	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26582	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26583	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26584	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26585	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26586	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Russ and Sarah Welcome New Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26587	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: help again..=(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26588	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26589	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26590	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26591	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26592	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies ava
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26593	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26595	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26597	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Glo-fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26598	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26599	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Glo-fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26600	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26601	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26602	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26603	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26604	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies ava
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26605	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26606	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies ava
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26607	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re Brown slime
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26608	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26609	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26610	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Glo-fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26611	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26612	From: Angela	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26613	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26614	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26615	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26616	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies ava
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26617	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26618	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26619	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies ava
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26620	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies ava
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26621	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26622	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26623	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26624	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26625	From: William J. Scott	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26626	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26627	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26628	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26629	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26631	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26632	From: Cilene Magnine	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: ? about my reef tank ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26633	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: ? about my reef tank ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26634	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26635	From: Cilene Magnine	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: ? about my reef tank ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26636	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: ? about my reef tank ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26637	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Glo-fish babies and research
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26638	From: Cilene Magnine	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: ? about my reef tank ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26639	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26640	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: ? about my reef tank ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26641	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26642	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26643	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26644	From: Jenn	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Sea Horse picture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26645	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: lost email : (
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26646	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: lost email : (
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26647	From: Russ Foley	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Guppie Lost Colour and Other Guppies have little dots on tail fins
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26648	From: hangsomeboy2002	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Anyone in Melbourne know where they sell crayfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26649	From: ED	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone in Melbourne know where they sell crayfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26650	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone in Melbourne know where they sell crayfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26651	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26652	From: Melissa	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26653	From: ED	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: GMO's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26654	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26655	From: Shelley Kate Coffman	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: fuzz on my driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26656	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: GMO's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26657	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26658	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Need your thoughts.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26659	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: Need your thoughts.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26660	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: fuzz on my driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26661	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: Need your thoughts.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26662	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Thinking real hard about rehoming...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26663	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Need your thoughts.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26664	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Need your thoughts.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26665	From: ED	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26666	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Thinking real hard about rehoming...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26667	From: ED	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26668	From: ED	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26669	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26670	From: ED	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26671	From: ED	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26672	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: fuzz on my driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26673	From: whjordan83	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Electronic Monitors & Controllers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26674	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: fuzz on my driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26675	From: poul wehner	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: fuzzy driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26676	From: Shelley Kate Coffman	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: fuzzy driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26677	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26678	From: Chris	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Are test strips accurate ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26679	From: Chris	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Marbled Platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26680	From: Chris Corley	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26681	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Update on my platy.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26682	From: alan.blake21	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26683	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Are test strips accurate ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26684	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Are test strips accurate ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26685	From: renee31477	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: moss wall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26686	From: Chris	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Are test strips accurate ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26687	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26688	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Are test strips accurate ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26689	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26690	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Oscar with Ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26691	From: starla	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: moss wall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26692	From: ED	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26693	From: ED	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26694	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Trained Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26695	From: ED	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26696	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Another Cool Video
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26697	From: ED	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26698	From: Wendie	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Trained Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26699	From: ED	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Trained Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26700	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Glo-fish update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26701	From: rglrtmmy	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: newbie that needs help...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26702	From: Chris	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26703	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26704	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: newbie that needs help...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26705	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26706	From: ED	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26707	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26708	From: rglrtmmy@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: newbie that needs help...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26709	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26710	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26711	From: Melissa	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Platy Varieties & Pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26712	From: Shelley Kate Coffman	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Fuzz on driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26713	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Fuzz on driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26714	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Oscar with Ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26715	From: Chris Corley	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26716	From: alan.blake21	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: GloFish Discussion
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26717	From: Chris Corley	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Varieties & Pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26719	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Ok, I'm really confused now...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26720	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26721	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26722	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Varieties & Pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26723	From: Chris Corley	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I'm really confused now...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26725	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26726	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Fuzz on driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26727	From: Marty Derenge	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26728	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26729	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26730	From: ED	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26731	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Fuzz on driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26732	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: How long should I keep platy seperated?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26733	From: renee31477	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26734	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: How long should I keep platy seperated?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26735	From: Melissa	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Varieties & Pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26736	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: How long should I keep platy seperated?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26737	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Varieties & Pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26738	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26739	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26740	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: BioWheels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26741	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Advice,please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26742	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26743	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26744	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: BioWheels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26745	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Advice,please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26747	From: renee31477	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26748	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Dead Pristella with eggs.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26749	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Advice,please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26750	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Pristella with eggs.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26751	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Pristella with eggs.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26752	From: Wendie	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26753	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26754	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Varieties & Pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26755	From: Wendie	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26756	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26757	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26758	From: Wendie	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26759	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Rain Forest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26760	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Need help for Lighting for Plants for those up for the challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26761	From: ED	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26762	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26763	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26764	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Pristella with eggs.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26765	From: circus0s	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: algae problems
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26766	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: algae problems
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26767	From: circus0s	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: algae problems
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26768	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: algae problems
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26769	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26770	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Need help for Lighting for Plants for those up for the challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26771	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26772	From: Chris Corley	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Need help for Lighting for Plants for those up for the challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26773	From: Pat Majeski	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Need help for Lighting for Plants for those up for the challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26774	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26775	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Need help for Lighting for Plants for those up for the ...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26776	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26777	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Pristella with eggs.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26778	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26780	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26781	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26782	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26783	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Tank mates.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26784	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Tank mates.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26785	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Tank mates.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26786	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tank mates.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26787	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Powerheads
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26788	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Powerheads
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26789	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26790	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Powerheads
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26791	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26792	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26793	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26794	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tank mates.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26795	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26796	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26797	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26798	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26799	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26800	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26801	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26802	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26803	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26804	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26805	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26806	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26807	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26808	From: Margarita Shkurko	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: tiny white spot on tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26809	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: tiny white spot on tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26810	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26811	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26812	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26813	From: tori purfit	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26814	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26815	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26816	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26817	From: Kevin	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: think my male beta might be sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: think my male beta might be sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26819	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Duckweed Again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26820	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26821	From: amvass2002	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26822	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26823	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26824	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26825	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26826	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26827	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26829	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26830	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26831	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26832	From: Rita	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: tiny white spot on tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26833	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: FW: TFSRI "Triple Crown" Annual Fish Auction, Sunday March 30th
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26834	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26835	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26836	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: tiny white spot on tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26837	From: Kevin	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: think my male beta might be sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26838	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: think my male beta might be sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26839	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Repair to Fake aquarium plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26840	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: think my male beta might be sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26841	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26842	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: think my male beta might be sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26843	From: Rita	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26844	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26845	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26846	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Auto Top Off Units
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26847	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Auto Top Off Units
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26848	From: ED	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Pics Wallpaper
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26849	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26850	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26851	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26852	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26854	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26855	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26856	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26857	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26858	From: ED	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Pics Wallpaper
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26859	From: joe t	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26860	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26861	From: Debra	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26862	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26863	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Paludarium inhabitants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26865	From: hendralim27	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: ornamental freshwater shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26866	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26867	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26868	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26869	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26870	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Old Hartz Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26871	From: Chris Corley	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Old Hartz Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26872	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: ornamental freshwater shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26873	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Old Hartz Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26874	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Old Hartz Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26875	From: Rich	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: DP in a 5 gallon; tankmates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26876	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Old Hartz Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26877	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Letters, deaths etc. Repair to Fake aquarium plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26878	From: ED	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: PICS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26879	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium inhabitants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26880	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Old Hartz Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26881	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Old Hartz Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26882	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: What exactly is in "algae meal"?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26883	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: What exactly is in "algae meal"?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26884	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: What exactly is in "algae meal"?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26885	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium inhabitants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26886	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta *update*
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26887	From: Amy	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: What exactly is in "algae meal"?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26888	From: Amy	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta *update*
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26889	From: Amy	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: DP in a 5 gallon; tankmates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26890	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Questions about newly planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26891	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Parasite??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26892	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium inhabitants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26893	From: William	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Parasite??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26894	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium inhabitants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26895	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Parasite??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26896	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta *update*
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26897	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Parasite??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26898	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium inhabitants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26899	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about newly planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26900	From: Jenn	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Bamboo shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26901	From: Lisa	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: New member intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26902	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: New member intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26903	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Parasite??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26904	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: more bugs...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26905	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta *update*
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26906	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: bugs? ps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26907	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Update on Platy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26908	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about newly planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26909	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Sorry for the overposts....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26910	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry for the overposts....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26911	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry for the overposts....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26912	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Parasite??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26913	From: chrisc0313	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26914	From: chrisc0313	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: how do you post pictures on here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26915	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry for the overposts....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26916	From: chrisc0313	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Update on Platy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26917	From: Angela	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Sorry for the overposts....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26918	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry for the overposts....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26919	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Sorry for the overposts....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26920	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Feeding Cory Cats
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26921	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Bamboo shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26922	From: Debra	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding Cory Cats
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26923	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Bamboo shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26924	From: jenni	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Hi from newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26925	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium inhabitants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry for the overposts....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26927	From: Rich	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: DP in a 5 gallon; tankmates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26928	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding Cory Cats
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26929	From: Kim	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Need Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26930	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Need Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26931	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Need Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26932	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Need Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26933	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Need Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26934	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: more bugs...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26935	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about newly planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26936	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: New member intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26937	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hi from newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26938	From: reading1113	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Hello everyone, I just joined today
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26939	From: Amy	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26940	From: Erik	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Just Joined, a Question About my Blood Parrot Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26941	From: Amy	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26942	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26943	From: Erik	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: Just Joined, a Question About my Blood Parrot Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26944	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: Just Joined, a Question About my Blood Parrot Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26945	From: Amy	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26946	From: Erik	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Re: Just Joined, a Question About my Blood Parrot Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26947	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Sorry for the overposts....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26948	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26949	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Youtube reef video of mine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26950	From: Amy	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26951	From: Lisa	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Looking for Australian betta breeders
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26952	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Applying Background
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26953	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26954	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Cyprichromis leptosoma
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26955	From: nice6669	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: 125 bust
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26956	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: 125 bust
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26957	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: 125 bust
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26958	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: Cyprichromis leptosoma
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26959	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: Cyprichromis leptosoma
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26960	From: Amy	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26961	From: Frederic Ouellet	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Question - apple snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26962	From: Lisa	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Free bloodworms!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26963	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: Applying Background
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26964	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: Free bloodworms!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26965	From: Paula Brown	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Submersible Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26966	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: Submersible Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26967	From: Blue fish	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26968	From: Zinfin	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26969	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26971	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26972	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26973	From: Lisa	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26974	From: mbajorek02	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: New Member: Good sources of online info
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26975	From: Marty Derenge	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: Cyprichromis leptosoma
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26976	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: New Member: Good sources of online info
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26977	From: Amy	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26979	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26980	From: rsteph49	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Taam Rio Nano Protein Skimmer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26981	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26982	From: rob_white18	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26984	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26985	From: tori purfit	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26986	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26987	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26988	From: rsteph49	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Problems with Nitrates and pH.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26989	From: Lisa	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Seahorses
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26990	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: Problems with Nitrates and pH.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26991	From: rsteph49	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: Problems with Nitrates and pH.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26992	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: Seahorses
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26993	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: Problems with Nitrates and pH.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26994	From: Russ Foley	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Just curious how many people are on this group are in the uk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Just curious how many people are on this group are in the uk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26996	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26997	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Problems with Nitrates and pH.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26998	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26999	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27000	From: joe t	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Cloud Eye on Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27001	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Cloud Eye on Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27002	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Cloud Eye on Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27004	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27005	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27006	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: WATCH OPRAH TODAY!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27007	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: WATCH OPRAH TODAY!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27008	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: New to this and confused.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27009	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27010	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27011	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cloud Eye on Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27012	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to this and confused.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27013	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27014	From: jett07002	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re; Cloudy Eye on Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27015	From: Chris	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Help! Insane heater!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27016	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Krill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Cloudy Eye on Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27018	From: animalnecklaces	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Aquatic animal necklaces
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27019	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Insane heater!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27020	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: betta question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27021	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cloud Eye on Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27022	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Cloudy Eye on Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27023	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Insane heater!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27024	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cloud Eye on Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27026	From: Jerry Lynch	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: New member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27027	From: Rob White	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27028	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27029	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: New member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27030	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27031	From: bruce cohen	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27032	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27033	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27034	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: New Member: Good sources of online info
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27035	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27036	From: Jenn	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Blasted Phosphates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27037	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: betta question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27038	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Question on Tank Cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27039	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27040	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: betta question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27041	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question on Tank Cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27042	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27043	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27044	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27046	From: Judith Downing	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question on Tank Cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27047	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Blasted Phosphates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27048	From: starla sersland	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: cloudy water,
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27049	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27050	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Return to the Amazon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27051	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27052	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27053	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water,
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27054	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27055	From: Shelley Kate Coffman	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27056	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: New 50gal freshwater set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27057	From: Lisa	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Help with identifying guppy colour strain
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27058	From: Lisa	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Finally found some guppies so I have a question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27059	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: Finally found some guppies so I have a question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27060	From: Winbabyswife	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: Finally found some guppies so I have a question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27061	From: bmp	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Dazed corydoras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27062	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dazed corydoras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27063	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: novice question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27064	From: Andreas	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: novice question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27065	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dazed corydoras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27066	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: novice question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27067	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: novice question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27068	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: novice question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27069	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: Finally found some guppies so I have a question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27070	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27071	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts fungus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27072	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts fungus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27073	From: Lisa	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: New catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27074	From: Kevin	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: has any ne had problems with splendid betta fix remedy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27075	From: bmp	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: Re: Dazed corydoras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: Re: has any ne had problems with splendid betta fix remedy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27077	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27078	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27079	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: 4 angels in an approx 8 gal tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27080	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: 4 angels in an approx 8 gal tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27081	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: 4 angels in an approx 8 gal tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27082	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Filter Cleaning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27083	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Cleaning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27084	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Cleaning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27085	From: Raven Mae	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27086	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: How to make make copies of drift wood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27087	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: lost 8 fish during move........looking to restock
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27088	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Online vendor question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27089	From: Kristen Kinzer	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: lost 8 fish during move........looking to restock
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27090	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Larger South American Fish Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27091	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Silly question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27092	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27093	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Blue yabbys/crayfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27094	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27095	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27096	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27097	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Silly question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27098	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Online vendor question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27099	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Larger South American Fish Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27100	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Larger South American Fish Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27101	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27102	From: Chad Plum	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Larger South American Fish Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27103	From: Chad Plum	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27104	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27105	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27106	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27107	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27108	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: lost 8 fish during move........looking to restock
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27109	From: Raven Mae	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27110	From: kd7poe	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Pending Message Delays
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27111	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: How to make make copies of drift wood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27112	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27113	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27114	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27115	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27116	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27117	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Silly question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27118	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27119	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Silly question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27120	From: bmp	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27121	From: scrapbookjulia	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: German Blue Ram Eggs! Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27122	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: German Blue Ram Eggs! Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27123	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27124	From: Kate	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Fish identification/ Probable Nannostomus Beckfordi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27125	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27126	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27127	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27128	From: Lisa	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27129	From: Rob White	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27130	From: Winbabyswife	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Finally found some guppies so I have a question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27131	From: Winbabyswife	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Isn't This A Fish Group Where You Can Get Help?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27132	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27133	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27134	From: Lisa	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Solving the catfish riddle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27135	From: Lisa	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27136	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27137	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27138	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27139	From: Lisa	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27140	From: Lisa	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Bala sharks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27141	From: Lisa	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Waaaaaaay to high!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27142	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Bala sharks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27143	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Waaaaaaay to high!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27144	From: Lisa	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27145	From: Lisa	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Bala sharks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27146	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27147	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27148	From: Debra	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Solving the catfish riddle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27149	From: hank voss	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27150	From: hank voss	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27151	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27152	From: jett07002	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Isn't This A Fish Group Where You Can Get Help?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27154	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27155	From: hank voss	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27156	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27157	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27158	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: NEC Meeting WAWS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 ye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27159	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27160	From: pglloyd52	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Use of a plenum in a marine tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27161	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27162	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Waaaaaaay to high!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27163	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Waaaaaaay to high!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27164	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/11/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27165	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/11/2008
Subject: Re: Isn't This A Fish Group Where You Can Get Help?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27166	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/11/2008
Subject: Re: Finally found some guppies so I have a question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27167	From: jett07002	Date: 4/11/2008
Subject: Re: Isn't This A Fish Group Where You Can Get Help?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27168	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/11/2008
Subject: FW: PVAS April Meeting - Monday, 14 April 2008
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27169	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/11/2008
Subject: Re: Isn't This A Fish Group Where You Can Get Help?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27170	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 4/12/2008
Subject: Re: Solving the catfish riddle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27171	From: reading1113	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27173	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: What exactly is in "algae meal"?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27174	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Marimo Balls and Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: What exactly is in "algae meal"?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27176	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: Marimo Balls and Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27177	From: reading1113	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27178	From: Dave Shives	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: In wall fish tank...was wondering uf anynone had luck with mirror fi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27179	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27180	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: In wall fish tank...was wondering uf anynone had luck with mirro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27181	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Re: Marimo Balls and Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27182	From: reading1113	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27183	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27184	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27185	From: Dave Shives	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: In wall fish tank...was wondering uf anynone had luck with mirror fi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27186	From: reading1113	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27187	From: deberhardt85	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Tip For Making Your Aquarium Background Look GREAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27188	From: deberhardt85	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Issue With Fluval Cannister Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27189	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Re: Issue With Fluval Cannister Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27191	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Magazine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27192	From: babsdvs	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Move - new question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27193	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Has the fungus returned? it comes and goes (cichlid convict)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27194	From: bruce cohen	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Free 250 gallon tank - Campbell, California
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27195	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: clams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27196	From: aquaticjoy@aol.com	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Move - new question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27197	From: aquaticjoy@aol.com	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Has the fungus returned? it comes and goes (cichlid convict)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27198	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: clams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27199	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Has the fungus returned? it comes and goes (cichlid convict)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27200	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Move - new question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27201	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Free 250 gallon tank - Campbell, California
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27202	From: pete002314	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: any old fish tanks in FIFE (i can pick up)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27203	From: aquaticjoy@aol.com	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Free 250 gallon tank - Campbell, California
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27204	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Magazine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27205	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: clams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27206	From: peter_s_halpern	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved fro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27208	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27209	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27210	From: iowakoi	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Spring is here at last
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27211	From: aquaticjoy@aol.com	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish ...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27212	From: Russ Foley	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27213	From: peter_s_halpern	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27214	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27215	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27216	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27217	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27218	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27219	From: aquaticjoy@aol.com	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27220	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27222	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank - Kate Konrow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27223	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27224	From: aquaticjoy@aol.com	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27225	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27226	From: judy_be	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: sand for corydoras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27227	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: sand for corydoras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27228	From: rddelon73	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Ick Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27229	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: Ick Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27230	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27231	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank - Kate Konrow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27232	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: test kit?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27233	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27234	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27235	From: milster_1999	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: Free 250 gallon tank - Campbell, California
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27236	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: test kit?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27237	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27238	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27239	From: William J. Scott	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: Free 250 gallon tank - Campbell, California
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27240	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27242	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: Ick Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27243	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: bettas new home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27244	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: vacation feeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27245	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: vacation feeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27246	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27247	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: vacation feeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27248	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: vacation feeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27249	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: vacation feeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27250	From: Melissa	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: BioCubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27251	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Re: vacation feeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27252	From: rob_white18	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: FILTER
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27253	From: Noun	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Amazon Plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Re: FILTER
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27255	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: moss? algae?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27256	From: Noun	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Calculating the size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27257	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Re: moss? algae?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27258	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Re: Calculating the size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27259	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Re: Calculating the size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27260	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27262	From: Noun	Date: 4/20/2008
Subject: Re: Calculating the size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27263	From: lrglbrth	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: trouble with my black molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27264	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: trouble with my black molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27265	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27267	From: Noun	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Amazon Plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27268	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: Amazon Plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27269	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: Amazon Plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27270	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27271	From: Gregg	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27272	From: dtrc rc	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27273	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27274	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27275	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27276	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27277	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27278	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27279	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27280	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27281	From: mathhaven	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27282	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27283	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27284	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27285	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27286	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine - $1 Digital Subscription in honor o
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27287	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: [A quaticLife] still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27288	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: [A quaticLife] still having a snail problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27289	From: jett07002	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: Amazon Plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27290	From: Paula Brown	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Foam?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27291	From: James	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: trouble with my black molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27292	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: Foam?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27293	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Mold in aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27294	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: Mold in aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27295	From: Chris McCarthy	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27296	From: Rob White	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: FILTER
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27297	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27298	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27299	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27300	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Mold in aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27301	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Foam?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27302	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27303	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27304	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27305	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Mold in aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27306	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27307	From: Paula Brown	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27308	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Mold in aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27309	From: Paula Brown	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Hospital Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27310	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27311	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Java Fern
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27312	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Mold in aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27313	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Hospital Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27314	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Hospital Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27315	From: Noun	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Amazon Plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27316	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Hospital Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27317	From: Debra	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Hospital Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27318	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Hospital Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27319	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Hospital Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27320	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27321	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27322	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27323	From: Chris	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Brown algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27324	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27325	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Brown algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27326	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27327	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: "One & Only Nitrifying Bateria" (was: Tetra safestart to begin sales
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27328	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27329	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27330	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27331	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27332	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27333	From: Kate	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Paludarium questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27334	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: Brown algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27335	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27336	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27337	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27339	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27340	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: Brown algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27341	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27342	From: endoaware_girl06	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Newt trouble
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27343	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Newt trouble
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27344	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Newt trouble
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27345	From: hessam abdi	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27346	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27347	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27348	From: endoaware_girl06	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Newt trouble
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27349	From: hessam abdi	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Newt trouble
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27350	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Newt trouble
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27351	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27352	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27353	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27354	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27355	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. and where to find Bio-Spi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27356	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27359	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Newt trouble
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27360	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27361	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27362	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27363	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27364	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Bio-Spira Strains
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27365	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27366	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27367	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27368	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27369	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27370	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27371	From: ssmlls	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Offer: Oscar Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27372	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27373	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Offer: Oscar Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27374	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27375	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27376	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Bio-Wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27377	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27378	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27379	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27380	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27381	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27382	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27383	From: Heather	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Weight question for tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27384	From: Chris Corley	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27385	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel longevity etc..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27386	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Weight question for tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27387	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27388	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Weight question for tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27389	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27390	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27391	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27392	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27393	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: What's good filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27394	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27395	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27396	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27397	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27398	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27399	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27400	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27401	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27402	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27403	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27404	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27406	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Turning the heat DOWN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27407	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27408	From: Noura Taweel	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27409	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27410	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27411	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27412	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27413	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27414	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27415	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27416	From: Bill Lane	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Suicidal Hatchets!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27417	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27418	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27419	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27420	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27421	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27422	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27423	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27424	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27425	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27426	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Light in the Aquarium--an Article
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27427	From: harry perry	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Light in the Aquarium--an Article/Steve thank you
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27428	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27429	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27430	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27431	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27432	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27433	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27435	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27436	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27437	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27438	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27439	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27440	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Suicidal Hatchets!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27441	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27442	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27443	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Java Fern
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27444	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27445	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27446	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27447	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27448	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27449	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Ocean Geotronic Product found
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27450	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27451	From: jviswakula	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Ornamental aquarium fish market information wanted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27452	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ocean Geotronic Product found
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27453	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27454	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ocean Geotronic Product found
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27455	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ornamental aquarium fish market information wanted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27456	From: robert_121965	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: wanted: Freshwater fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27457	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: wanted: Freshwater fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27458	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27459	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27460	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27461	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27462	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27463	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27464	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27465	From: Rei - Raymond Tremor	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27466	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Recomendations for a large air pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27467	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Green faced mout hbrooding goruami???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27468	From: William J. Scott	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27469	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27470	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: wanted: Freshwater fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27471	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Recomendations for a large air pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27473	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Removed Re: [AquaticLife] ###FRESH GIRLS MMS CLIPS###
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27475	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27476	From: hank voss	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27477	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27479	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Response from Seachem on Purigen question...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27480	From: Walden Nida	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27481	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Recomendations for a large air pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27482	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27483	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Response from Seachem on Purigen question...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27484	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27485	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: friend gave me a turtle..please help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27486	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27488	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: friend gave me a turtle..please help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27489	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: friend gave me a turtle..please help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27490	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: friend gave me a turtle..please help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27491	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: friend gave me a turtle..please help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27493	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Removed Re: [AquaticLife] ###FRESH GIRLS MMS CLIPS###
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27494	From: jason horyak	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: bad turtle probs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27495	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium/leaks/nitrates/venting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27496	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium/leaks/nitrates/venting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27497	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Removed Re: [AquaticLife] ###FRESH GIRLS MMS CLIPS###
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27498	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Removed Re: [AquaticLife] ###FRESH GIRLS MMS CLIPS###
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27499	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27500	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: friend gave me a turtle..please help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27501	From: grace42101	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: epoxy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27502	From: harry perry	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: epoxy/Grace
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27503	From: bmp	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27504	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: epoxy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27505	From: Walden Nida	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27506	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: epoxy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27507	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27508	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27509	From: jett07002	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: epoxy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27510	From: Raven Mae	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27511	From: jett07002	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27512	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27513	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27514	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27515	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27516	From: ED	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27517	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27518	From: Martin VanderWal	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27519	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27520	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27521	From: Paula Brown	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Online Troll?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27522	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27523	From: William J. Scott	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Online Troll?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27524	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27525	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27526	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27527	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27528	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27529	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27530	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27531	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27532	From: JFazio	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: rainbow fish hiding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27533	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: rainbow fish hiding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27534	From: JFazio	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: rainbow fish hiding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27535	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: rainbow fish hiding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27536	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: epoxy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27537	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27538	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27539	From: James	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27540	From: busymom_88	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Goldfish question-disease?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27541	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27542	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27543	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question-disease?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27544	From: good2shoes95	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: new meber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27545	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question-disease?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27546	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27547	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27548	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27549	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: new meber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27552	From: mathhaven	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27554	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Keep on topic, no more politics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27559	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27560	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27562	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27565	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27566	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27567	From: busymom_88	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question-disease?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27568	From: iowakoi	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: How many plants do I need in my pond?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27569	From: harry perry	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: stupidity and insensitivity! /Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27570	From: busymom_88	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Goldfish disease continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27571	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27572	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish disease continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27573	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27575	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27576	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: bad turtle probs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27577	From: aaron102272	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Dead Ghost Shrimp turning Pink
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27578	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Ghost Shrimp turning Pink
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27579	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/1/2008
Subject: Question about cycling, bifluran and biowheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27580	From: Larry Nave	Date: 5/2/2008
Subject: Veggie Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27581	From: hessam abdi	Date: 5/2/2008
Subject: Re: Veggie Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27582	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/2/2008
Subject: Re: Veggie Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27583	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/2/2008
Subject: Re: Veggie Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27584	From: red_sasha_home	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re; Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27585	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27586	From: amb112	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Hey there! Im a new member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27587	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27588	From: dapi_editor	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: African Butterfly Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27589	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27590	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27591	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27592	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27593	From: Wendie	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish disease continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27598	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: loaches and snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27599	From: harry perry	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails/Traci try this
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27600	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27601	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27602	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27603	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27604	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27605	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27606	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27607	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27608	From: harry perry	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails/Snails can be your friends
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27609	From: Larry Nave	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Veggie Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27610	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ocean Geotronic Product found
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27611	From: Carmen H	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27612	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: New Gouramies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27613	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27614	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27615	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: New Gouramies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27616	From: James (Jim) Darlack	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches, drunken snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27617	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches, drunken snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27618	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27619	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches, drunken snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27620	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: New Gouramies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27621	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Filtration Challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27622	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: loaches, drunken snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27623	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Messages Delay- Off topic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27624	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: loaches, drunken snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27625	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27626	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Filtration Challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27627	From: Wendie	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27628	From: Larry Nave	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Veggie Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27629	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27630	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27631	From: harry perry	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/I agree with Steve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27632	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Veggie Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27633	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27634	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/I agree with Steve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27636	From: Wendie	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27637	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27638	From: Suzi	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27639	From: harry perry	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/Hey Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27640	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Filtration Challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27641	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Kuhli Loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27642	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: red ear slider tank mates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27643	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Kuhli Loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27644	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Filter Intake Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27645	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/I agree with Steve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27646	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27647	From: bmp	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27648	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Kuhli Loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27649	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27650	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27651	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27652	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27653	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27654	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27655	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27656	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Kuhli Loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27657	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27658	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27659	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27660	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Fancy Goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27661	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27662	From: ipartyforfun	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Question, problem with my pond.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27663	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27664	From: nice6669	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: selver arowana baby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27665	From: Debra	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27666	From: Carmen H	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27667	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27668	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27669	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: selver arowana baby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27670	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: selver arowana baby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27671	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27672	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fancy Goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27673	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Question, problem with my pond.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27674	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fancy Goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27675	From: mathhaven	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27676	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27677	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27678	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Kuhli Loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27679	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Need to know how to use antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27680	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Filtration Challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27682	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: on moringa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27683	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Need to know how to use antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27684	From: joe t	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27685	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Moving Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27686	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27687	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27688	From: bmp	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27689	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Kuhli Loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27690	From: Chris	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27691	From: harry perry	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Moderators/To Beverly and all
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27692	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27693	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27694	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27695	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Need to know how to use antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27696	From: Chris	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27697	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27698	From: James	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27699	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27700	From: Jerry	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Need to know how to use antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27702	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Filtration Challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27703	From: James	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27704	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27705	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27706	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27707	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27708	From: Chris	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27709	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27710	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27711	From: Blue fish	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27712	From: Wendie	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Re: Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27713	From: Russ Foley	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Unwell Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27714	From: Gregg	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Moving Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27715	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27716	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: My tank photos posted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27717	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Re: Hey there! Im a new member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27718	From: tteitgen	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27719	From: staticdreamdesigns	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Newcomer..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27720	From: bmp	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Re: My tank photos posted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27721	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27722	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27723	From: mathhaven	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27724	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27725	From: James	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27726	From: ED	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: WoooooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27727	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Bio Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27728	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27729	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27730	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27731	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27732	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27733	From: AquaticLife™	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Bay Area Coral Farmers Market Third Annual Event
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27734	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bio Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27735	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27737	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27738	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27739	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27740	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27741	From: bmp	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27742	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27743	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Bio Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27744	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27745	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27746	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27747	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27748	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Bio Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27749	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Fw: water garden update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27750	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Fw: water garden update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27751	From: babsdvs	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Sea Shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27752	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: All natural fish treatments?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27753	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27754	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27755	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Bio Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27756	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27757	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27758	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27759	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27760	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27762	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27763	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27764	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Fertilizing a Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27765	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27766	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Fertilizing a Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27767	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27768	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27769	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27770	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27771	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Salt and Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27772	From: rick linboom	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27773	From: thee_raven2006	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27774	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27775	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27776	From: Keri	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: All Natural Treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27777	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27778	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Fertilizing a Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27780	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27781	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27782	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Iodine and shrimp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27783	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27784	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27785	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27786	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27787	From: bmp	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27788	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27789	From: Farscape	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27790	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27791	From: tishys_fishys	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27792	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Salt and Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27793	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27794	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27795	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27796	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27797	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27798	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27799	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27800	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27801	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27802	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27803	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27804	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27805	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27806	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27807	From: ED	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27808	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27809	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27810	From: deborahgd14	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27811	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27812	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27813	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27814	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27816	From: Rob and Amy Zerkle	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Salamanders , newts , clawed frogs and water dogs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27817	From: bmp	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish--Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27818	From: bmp	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27819	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: mollies (now butterflies)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27820	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27821	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Cory Cats
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27822	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27823	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27824	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish--Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27825	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27826	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27827	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: Cory Cats
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27828	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27829	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: Local NJ fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27830	From: bmp	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish--Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27831	From: Jim Russell	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: New Member Into & Request for Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Into & Request for Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27833	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27834	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Into & Request for Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27835	From: starla	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27836	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: help - sick elephant nose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27837	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Elephant nose follow up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27838	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27839	From: Carmen H	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: Elephant nose follow up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27840	From: Andreas	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: help - sick elephant nose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27841	From: Jim Russell	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Into & Request for Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27843	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: help - sick elephant nose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27844	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: Elephant nose follow up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27845	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: Elephant nose follow up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27846	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Into & Request for Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27847	From: Keri Kimball	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27848	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27849	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27850	From: Keri Kimball	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27851	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27852	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27854	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27855	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27856	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27857	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27858	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27859	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27860	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27861	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27862	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27863	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27864	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27865	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27866	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27867	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27868	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27869	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27870	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27871	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27872	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27873	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27874	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27875	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27876	From: Rob DeSanno	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27877	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27878	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27879	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27880	From: sullllly	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27881	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27882	From: waves02	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27883	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27884	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27885	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27886	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27887	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27888	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27889	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27890	From: mathhaven	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27891	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: My Angel is ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27892	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27893	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27894	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27895	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27896	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27897	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27898	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27899	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27900	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27901	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27902	From: Debra	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27903	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27904	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27905	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27906	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27907	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27908	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27909	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27910	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27911	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27912	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27913	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27914	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27915	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27916	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27917	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27918	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27919	From: pedunson	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27920	From: sullllly	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27921	From: jviswakula	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Fish photos wanted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27922	From: sullllly	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27923	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27924	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27925	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27926	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27927	From: harry perry	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27928	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27929	From: harry perry	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!/Lenn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27930	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27931	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27932	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27933	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27934	From: ED	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27935	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27936	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27937	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27938	From: waves02	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27939	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27940	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27941	From: harry perry	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!/Lana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27942	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27943	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27944	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27945	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27946	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27947	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27948	From: pedunson	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27949	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27950	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy breeding (was: New to the Group)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27951	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27952	From: Daniel Mundy	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: How long to establish a new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27953	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: How long to establish a new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27954	From: babsdvs	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27955	From: oceanmagic	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: flowerhorns
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27956	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: flowerhorns
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27957	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27958	From: sullllly	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: How long to establish a new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27959	From: stevesza	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: OT: Mail Problems at Yahoo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27960	From: Corey S. Flynn	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: New to the group. New Pond w/ gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27961	From: pedunson	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy breeding (was: New to the Group)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27962	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27963	From: oceanmagic	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: flowerhorns
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27964	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: How long to establish a new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27965	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27966	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group. New Pond w/ gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27967	From: willyspu	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group. New Pond w/ gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27968	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27969	From: Carmen H	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27970	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27971	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27972	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group. New Pond w/ gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27973	From: pedunson	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27974	From: pedunson	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: swordtails and molly's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27975	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/22/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27976	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 5/22/2008
Subject: Reuseable Filter Ecllipse filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27977	From: ED	Date: 5/23/2008
Subject: WoooooHooooooo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27978	From: ED	Date: 5/23/2008
Subject: Guppies and Brackish water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27979	From: harry perry	Date: 5/23/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooHooooooo/Ed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27980	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/23/2008
Subject: Re: Guppies and Brackish water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27981	From: pedunson	Date: 5/23/2008
Subject: Re: Guppies and Brackish water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27982	From: talkaboutphotography	Date: 5/23/2008
Subject: Action and Adventure Photography Tips
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27983	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/24/2008
Subject: OT: Flying Fish Record
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27984	From: sullllly	Date: 5/24/2008
Subject: quiet the air line on a noisy power head and some other mods.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27985	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/24/2008
Subject: Re: quiet the air line on a noisy power head and some other mods.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27986	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 5/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Flying Fish Record
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27987	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27988	From: Monis Albukhari	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Oscar Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27989	From: sullllly	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27990	From: sullllly	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: Oscar Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27991	From: Farscape	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: Oscar Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27992	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27993	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: Oscar Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27994	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27996	From: Anndrea	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27997	From: Anndrea	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Ok, I have a new fish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27998	From: sullllly	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27999	From: sullllly	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I have a new fish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28000	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I have a new fish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28001	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: Oscar Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28002	From: jamesewerjr	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: i just got tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28003	From: harry perry	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: i just got tank/James
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28004	From: sullllly	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: i just got tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28005	From: frankhall70	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: tropical fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28006	From: Jim	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: New to site and fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28007	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: tropical fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28008	From: frank hall	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: tropical fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28009	From: frankhall70	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28010	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28011	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: tropical fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28012	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28013	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: tropical fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28014	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28015	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: tropical fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28016	From: citra.cool2	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: The Good Food for PANGASIUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28017	From: sullllly	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: tropical fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28018	From: sullllly	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28019	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: The Good Food for PANGASIUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28023	From: James Ewer Jr	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: thank you
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28024	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: thank you
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28025	From: susieharden	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28026	From: vivian bradish	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Pregnant Platy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28027	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28028	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28029	From: vivian bradish	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28030	From: Dave Roberts	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28031	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: White poop - Was - thank you
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28032	From: sullllly	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28033	From: sullllly	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: My two 55gal tanks on youtube.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28034	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: My two 55gal tanks on youtube.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28035	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28036	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: My two 55gal tanks on youtube.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28037	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: angel fish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28038	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28039	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28040	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: White poop - Was - thank you
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28041	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: angel fish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28042	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28043	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28044	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28045	From: Jim	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28046	From: pedunson	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28047	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28048	From: frankhall70	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: a lid or not a lid that is the question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28049	From: hamrad45	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28050	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28051	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28052	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28053	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28054	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28055	From: frank hall	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28056	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28057	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: White poop - Was - thank you
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28059	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28060	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28061	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28062	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28063	From: sullllly	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28064	From: Kevin	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28065	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28066	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28067	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28068	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: angel fish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28069	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28070	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Guppy behaving strange
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28071	From: Kevin	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28072	From: Kevin	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28073	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28074	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: White poop
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28075	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: White poop
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28076	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28077	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28078	From: evilkoala50	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Aggressive Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28079	From: Rob DeSanno	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy behaving strange
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28080	From: Cheryl	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: my clownfish's companion anemone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28081	From: Cheryl	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28082	From: Cheryl	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28083	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Re: Aggressive Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28084	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28085	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Aggressive Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28086	From: pedunson	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy behaving strange
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28087	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Aggressive Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28088	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy behaving strange
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28089	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Which tetras to get?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28090	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Which tetras to get?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28091	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy behaving strange
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28092	From: hank voss	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Which tetras to get?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28093	From: jamesewerjr	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28094	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy behaving strange
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28095	From: evilkoala50	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Update on Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28096	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Which tetras to get?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28097	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Which tetras to get?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28098	From: James	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Aggressive Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28099	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28100	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Update on Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28101	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28102	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Update on Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28103	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28104	From: Kevin	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28105	From: Kevin	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28106	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28107	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28108	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28109	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28110	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28111	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28112	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28113	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28114	From: Kevin	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28115	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28116	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28117	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28118	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28119	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28120	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28122	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28123	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28124	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28125	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28126	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28127	From: Steve	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28128	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28129	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28130	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28131	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28132	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph - answered my question!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28133	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28134	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28135	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28136	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph - answered my question!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28137	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28138	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28139	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph - answered my question!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28140	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28141	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28142	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28143	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: pH change units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28144	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28145	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28146	From: Kate	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Mold/Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28147	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28148	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28149	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28150	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28151	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28152	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28153	From: Carmen H	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Mold/Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28154	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Mold/Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28155	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28156	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28157	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28158	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28159	From: Blue fish	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28160	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28161	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Mold/Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28162	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28163	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28164	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Mold/Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28165	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28166	From: ED	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28167	From: Erik Hammarstrom	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Starting new aquarium - Question on filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28168	From: ED	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Which tetras to get?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28169	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Starting new aquarium - Question on filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28170	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28171	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28172	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Mold/Melafix
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28173	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28174	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Starting new aquarium - Question on filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28176	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28177	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28178	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28179	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28180	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter-Breeding gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28181	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter-Breeding gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28182	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: My tank's updates- (Was: Breeding Gourami)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28183	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28184	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: My tank's updates- (Was: Breeding Gourami)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28185	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: HELP NEEDED
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28186	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: HELP NEEDED
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28187	From: sibey_kiasu	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28188	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Moving update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28189	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28190	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28191	From: mandacaplan	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Removing dea koi eggs from a pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28192	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Dwarf Gourami wounded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28193	From: deborahgd14	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP NEEDED
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28194	From: deborahgd14	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28195	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28196	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28197	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Which tetras to get?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28198	From: caroline	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28199	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28200	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28201	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28202	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28203	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28204	From: Carmen H	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28205	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami wounded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28206	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami wounded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28208	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28209	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28210	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami wounded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28211	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28213	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami wounded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28214	From: greyhabit	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: New Member Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28215	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28216	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami wounded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28217	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28218	From: greyhabit	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28219	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28220	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28222	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28223	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28224	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28225	From: Paula Brown	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Salt Needed?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28226	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Salt Needed?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28227	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28228	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28229	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28230	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28231	From: greyhabit	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Intro & Biorb Stocking Density
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28232	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28233	From: Jim	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28234	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28235	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28236	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28237	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28238	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28239	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28240	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Spare Aquarium Use
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28241	From: babsdvs	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28242	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28243	From: myronbarefoot	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: books
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28244	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami wounded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28245	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28246	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28247	From: deborahgd14	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28248	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28249	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: books
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28250	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28251	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: books
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28252	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28253	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28255	From: harry perry	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28257	From: jackcollora	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: nano cube stocking/ questions bout salt water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28258	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28259	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28260	From: olesonjo	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: PWC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28261	From: Jim	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28262	From: Robb	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Advice on pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28263	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28264	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Spare Aquarium Use
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28265	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28266	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28267	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Saot and tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28268	From: Robb	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28269	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: PWC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28272	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: books
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28273	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28274	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28275	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28276	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28277	From: Robb	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28278	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28279	From: Robb	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28280	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28281	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28282	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28283	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: books
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28284	From: Robb	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28285	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28286	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28287	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28288	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28289	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28290	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28291	From: RannieSue	Date: 6/11/2008
Subject: Bookshelf Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28292	From: James (Jim) Darlack	Date: 6/11/2008
Subject: Advice on large quiet air pump and chrome screw in valves
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28293	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on large quiet air pump and chrome screw in valves
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28294	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2008
Subject: Re: Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28295	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on large quiet air pump and chrome screw in valves
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28296	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on large quiet air pump and chrome screw in valves
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28297	From: jett07002	Date: 6/12/2008
Subject: Re: Bookshelf Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28298	From: haplo77777	Date: 6/13/2008
Subject: Advice welcome on planter/pond please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28299	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/13/2008
Subject: Re: Advice welcome on planter/pond please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28300	From: Paula Brown	Date: 6/13/2008
Subject: Female Betta's - Pushing My Luck?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28301	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/13/2008
Subject: Re: Female Betta's - Pushing My Luck?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28302	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 6/13/2008
Subject: Re: Bookshelf Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28303	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/13/2008
Subject: Re: Bookshelf Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28304	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2008
Subject: Re: Advice welcome on planter/pond please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28305	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/14/2008
Subject: Re: Female Betta's - Pushing My Luck?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28306	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2008
Subject: Re: Bookshelf Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28307	From: SaraRamirezRocks@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2008
Subject: Re: Bookshelf Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28308	From: Paula Brown	Date: 6/14/2008
Subject: Female Betta's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28309	From: Robb	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Good terrain for an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28310	From: James (Jim) Darlack	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Good terrain for an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28311	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: Good terrain for an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28312	From: Robb	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: Good terrain for an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28313	From: Robb	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Good terrain for an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28314	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: Good terrain for an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28315	From: Roos	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28316	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: Good terrain for an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28317	From: caroline	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: bio rolling filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28318	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: bio rolling filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28320	From: Robb	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Good terrain for an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28321	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28322	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28323	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28324	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Java Moss Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Good terrain for an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28325	From: babsdvs	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Oh, holy molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28326	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Question about moving
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28327	From: Duriel Krugaire	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Indianapolis, IN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28328	From: jackcollora	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: red sea
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28329	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: red sea
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28330	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, holy molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28331	From: quamichan2001	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: Indianapolis, IN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28332	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28333	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28334	From: Pam Andress	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: Indianapolis, IN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28335	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28336	From: cinadmil	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28337	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28338	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: Question about moving
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28339	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28340	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28341	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28342	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: Question about moving
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28343	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/17/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here.. another myspace pg
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28344	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/17/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28345	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/17/2008
Subject: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28346	From: Mike Downey	Date: 6/17/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28347	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/17/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28348	From: lbon3002	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: trout
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28349	From: Russ Foley	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/Hey Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28350	From: aec crawford	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28351	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/Hey Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28352	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: trout
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28353	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: trout
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28354	From: aec crawford	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28355	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: trout
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28356	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: trout
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: trout
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28358	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: trout
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28359	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: Foam & Sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28360	From: caroline	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28361	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28362	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: An article about PWC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28363	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: Re: An article about PWC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28364	From: Blue fish	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28365	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28366	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28367	From: mandacaplan	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: Help..koi keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28368	From: Rddelon73	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: Re: Indianapolis, IN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28369	From: judy_be	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: cheese cloth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28370	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: Re: Help..koi keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28371	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: Re: Help..koi keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28372	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: Re: Help..koi keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28373	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28374	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Water Testing Article
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28375	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28376	From: maj7787	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28377	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28378	From: Zinfin	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth/snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28379	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28380	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Something *ate* my filter media?!?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28381	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28382	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28383	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28384	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28385	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28386	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, holy molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28387	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth/snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28388	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28389	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28390	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28391	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28392	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28395	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28396	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28397	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28398	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28399	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28400	From: Sohil Garg	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Determining the Sex of Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28401	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28402	From: Sohil Garg	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Determining the Sex of Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28403	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28404	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28405	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28406	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28407	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28408	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28409	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28410	From: joe t	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: trout
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28411	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Determining the Sex of Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28412	From: Vitae	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: STUCK Guppy gonopodium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28413	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: new here, looking for water sprite -Ceratopteris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28414	From: caroline	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28415	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: new here, looking for water sprite -Ceratopteris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28416	From: bushman_50	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: New to the group ( *Crayfish*?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28417	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28418	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group ( *Crayfish*?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28419	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28420	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28421	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: What happens if you use Kent marine pro-clear in a fresh water aquar
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28422	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28423	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: STUCK Guppy gonopodium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28424	From: harry perry	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28425	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28426	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28427	From: maj7787	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28428	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28429	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28430	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28431	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: new here, looking for water sprite -Ceratopteris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28432	From: Mark Hough	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28433	From: Mark Hough	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: STUCK Guppy gonopodium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28434	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28435	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28436	From: Paula Brown	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Filter Intake Qusetion
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28437	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: What happens if you use Kent marine pro-clear in a fresh water a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28438	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Qusetion
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28439	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: What happens if you use Kent marine pro-clear in a fresh water a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28440	From: maj7787	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Feeding time
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28441	From: Al Ponce	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Corydoras Hadrosus Breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28442	From: Mark Hough	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding time
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28443	From: Mark Hough	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: What happens if you use Kent marine pro-clear in a fresh water a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28444	From: JFazio	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: cloudy eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28445	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: Corydoras Hadrosus Breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28446	From: thee_raven2006	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding time
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28447	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: Corydoras Hadrosus Breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28448	From: Paula Brown	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: AHA - The Duckweed Light Came On!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28449	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: AHA - The Duckweed Light Came On!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28450	From: maj7787	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding time
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28451	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28452	From: maj7787	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Fish lice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28453	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: AHA - The Duckweed Light Came On!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28454	From: Mark Hough	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28455	From: Duriel Krugaire	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Fish Tanks Still available in Indy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28456	From: Veronica	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Tanks Still available in Indy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28457	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: AHA - The Duckweed Light Came On!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28458	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Tanks Still available in Indy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28459	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding time
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28460	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Tanks Still available in Indy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28461	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28462	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Aquarium Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28463	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28464	From: Black Revenge	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Help Me...!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28465	From: Sohil Garg	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: Help Me...!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28466	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: Help Me...!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28467	From: Sohil Garg	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: aerators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28468	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: aerators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28469	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28470	From: harry perry	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: pH change /Greg
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28471	From: harry perry	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28472	From: Sohil Garg	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: aerators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28473	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28474	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28475	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Tetrapond filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28476	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28477	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny.. question about betta's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28478	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28479	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny.. question about betta's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28480	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28481	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28482	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28483	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28484	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Molly spining
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28485	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28486	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28487	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28488	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28489	From: foxey987m35	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: nitrate in a reef tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28490	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: pH range update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28491	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28492	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: One of my danios is missing the silver part of its eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28493	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/29/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny.. question about betta's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28494	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining-UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28495	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining-UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28496	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Bags for Purigen media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28497	From: Jenn	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28498	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28499	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Hydrogen Peroxide
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28500	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bags for Purigen media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28501	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28502	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28503	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28504	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28505	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28506	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28507	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28508	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28509	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28510	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28511	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28512	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28513	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28514	From: webbcooly	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: does anyone know about freshwater pufferfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28515	From: Mike Downey	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: Re: does anyone know about freshwater pufferfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28516	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28517	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28518	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28519	From: schroedel2003	Date: 7/2/2008
Subject: dumb xinia question....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28520	From: AquaticLife™	Date: 7/2/2008
Subject: Fish ID?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28521	From: Snert	Date: 7/2/2008
Subject: Re: Fish ID?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28522	From: jamesewerjr	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: my red devil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28523	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: Re: my red devil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28524	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: White Vinegar
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28525	From: Kristen Kinzer	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: Re: my red devil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28526	From: jamesewerjr	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: Re: my red devil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28527	From: jamesewerjr	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: Re: my red devil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28528	From: Blue fish	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28529	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: watering trough for goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28530	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28531	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28532	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28533	From: Karen	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: non profit group looking for volunteers.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28534	From: L. Gove	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: Re: non profit group looking for volunteers.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28535	From: corpobtn	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: Eels from Philippines
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28536	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: bio filter redux
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28537	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28538	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28539	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28540	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28541	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28542	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: non profit group looking for volunteers.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28543	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28544	From: Jack Collora	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: no profit group looking for volunteers.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28545	From: pacenme	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Temporary housing??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28546	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Temporary housing??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28547	From: Paula Brown	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28548	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: pH change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28549	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28550	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: pH change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28551	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28552	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: pH change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28553	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28554	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28555	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Another question.. Center Braces
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28556	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: pH change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28557	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28558	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: pH change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28560	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28561	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28562	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28563	From: Robert 1	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28564	From: kitty.cozy	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: cycling tank one fish not eating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28565	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: pH change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28566	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28567	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: cycling tank one fish not eating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28568	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: pH change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28569	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28570	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28571	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28572	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: cycling tank one fish not eating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28574	From: pam andress	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28575	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28576	From: kitty.cozy	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: cycling tank one fish not eating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28577	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: cycling tank one fish not eating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28578	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28579	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28580	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28581	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28582	From: William J. Scott	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28583	From: L. Gove	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28584	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28585	From: hamrad45	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Ph changed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28586	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ph changed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28587	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ph changed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28588	From: L. Gove	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28589	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: pH change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28590	From: Jenn	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: New babies!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28591	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28592	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28593	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: pH change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28596	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: New babies!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28598	From: pam andress	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: auctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28599	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: pH change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28600	From: david hall	Date: 7/8/2008
Subject: poorly chiclid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28601	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2008
Subject: Re: poorly chiclid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28602	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 7/8/2008
Subject: Re: New babies!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28603	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 7/8/2008
Subject: Any members in Charlotte, NC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28604	From: david hall	Date: 7/8/2008
Subject: Re: poorly chiclid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28605	From: Jasmine	Date: 7/8/2008
Subject: PH Variation in tank (tropical)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28606	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/9/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28607	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/9/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28608	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/9/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28609	From: Jasmine	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: PH Variation in tank (tropical)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28610	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28611	From: Jasmine	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28612	From: Sohil Garg	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Goldfish Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28613	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28614	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28615	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28616	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28617	From: Jenn	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: New babies!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28618	From: Jenn	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: More and more babies...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28619	From: Cheryl	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28620	From: Cheryl	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: anemones
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28621	From: Mike Downey	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: Check the feeder tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28622	From: Ashley	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28623	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28624	From: User &	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28625	From: Ashley	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28626	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures incl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28627	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) NOW:Update on
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28628	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) NOW:Update on
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28629	From: L. Gove	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28630	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: house water, aquariums and a hatchery in Area 51
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28631	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Chinese Algae Eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28632	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Fry divider for tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28633	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: house water, aquariums and a hatchery in Area 51
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28634	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fry divider for tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28636	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fry divider for tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28637	From: Mike Downey	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28638	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28639	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28640	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28641	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28642	From: Heather	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28643	From: Heather	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fry divider for tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28644	From: Mike Downey	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28645	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Can painting bother the fish ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28646	From: Jenn	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Check the feeder tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28647	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fry divider for tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28648	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Can painting bother the fish ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28650	From: Jasmine	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Your not ignored - i'm just sick and not on the computer at present
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28651	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: house water, aquariums and a hatchery in Area 51
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28652	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: house water, aquariums and a hatchery in Area 51
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28653	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Manage et trois en angel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28654	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28655	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28656	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28657	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28658	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28659	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28660	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28661	From: pam andress	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28662	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28663	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28664	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28665	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28666	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28667	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: new used 2227 Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28668	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28669	From: rul_s008	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: OPEN WATER FISHERIES SPECIES
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28670	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: What kind of plant is this?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28672	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28673	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28674	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28675	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28676	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28677	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28678	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28679	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28680	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28681	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....*correcting error*
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28682	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28683	From: Mike Downey	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28684	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28685	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: One more Danio Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28686	From: Jenn	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Mystery cichlid babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28687	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28688	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/15/2008
Subject: Re: One more Danio Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28689	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/15/2008
Subject: How do you tell a male danio from a female danio?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28690	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/15/2008
Subject: Good News??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28691	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/15/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery cichlid babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28692	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/15/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery cichlid babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28693	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/15/2008
Subject: Re: Good News??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28694	From: maj7787	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28695	From: maj7787	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: under gravel filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28696	From: maj7787	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28697	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28698	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: under gravel filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28699	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: under gravel filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28702	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28703	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28704	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28705	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28706	From: jett07002	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28707	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28708	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28709	From: maj7787	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: under gravel filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28710	From: SheikhRizwan	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28711	From: SheikhRizwan	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28712	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28713	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28714	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28716	From: hank voss	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28717	From: Debra	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28718	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Eheim 2227 and PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28719	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28720	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28721	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28722	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28723	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Intestinal Disease Cure?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: SELAS Meeting Announcement (SouthEast Louisiana Aquarium Society)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28725	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28726	From: Cheryl	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: How do I care for this seahorse?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28727	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Guppy tragedy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28728	From: chuinsiew	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Live OR Frozen Artemia for Coral
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28729	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28730	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28731	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28732	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28733	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28734	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28735	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28737	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28738	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28739	From: myronbarefoot	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: eheim 2217
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28740	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: eheim 2217
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28741	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: eheim 2217
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28742	From: jett07002	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28743	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28744	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28745	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Why is my tetra swimming funny?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28746	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Impeller maybe wearing out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28747	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: eheim 2217
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28748	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: Impeller maybe wearing out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28749	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: Impeller maybe wearing out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28750	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28751	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Impeller maybe wearing out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28752	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Impeller maybe wearing out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28753	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Impeller maybe wearing out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28754	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: To Loach or not to Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28755	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28756	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: eheim 2217
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28757	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Impeller maybe wearing out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28758	From: jett07002	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28759	From: hank voss	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Why is my tetra swimming funny?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28760	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28761	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Why is my tetra swimming funny?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28762	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28763	From: RannieSue	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Bio-orb aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28764	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28765	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-orb aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28766	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-orb aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28767	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28768	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28769	From: jackcollora	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28770	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28771	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28772	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28773	From: sOhAm Mukherjee	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28774	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28775	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28776	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28777	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28778	From: Karen Briand	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: non profit group looking for volunteers.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28779	From: Karen Briand	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: no profit group looking for volunteers.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28780	From: Karen Briand	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: non profit group looking for volunteers.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28781	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28782	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28783	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28784	From: jamesewerjr	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: My red devil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28785	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28786	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: My red devil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28787	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28788	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28789	From: sevenspringss	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish? OFF TOPIC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28790	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28792	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28793	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28794	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28795	From: Robb	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Thank you and more advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28796	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28797	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28798	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28799	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28800	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28801	From: risika23	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: New Member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28802	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28803	From: andrea	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: My red devil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28804	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28805	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28806	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28807	From: Matthew O' Farrell	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28808	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28809	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: Thank you and more advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28810	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28811	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28812	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28813	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28814	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28815	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28816	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Use your head! <] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marinel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28817	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Looking for 20 gallon aquarium in Austin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28818	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28819	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28820	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28821	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Penguin 170 photos on website
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28822	From: Jerry Lynch	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28823	From: Jerry Lynch	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28824	From: babsdvs	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28825	From: junglejingles	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28826	From: Maria Jung	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: no profit group looking for volunteers.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28827	From: Maria Jung	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: no profit group looking for volunteers.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28828	From: Maria Jung	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28829	From: Maria Jung	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-orb aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28830	From: Maria Jung	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: How do I care for this seahorse?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28831	From: Maria Jung	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28832	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28833	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28834	From: Kelley Lee	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Use your head!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28835	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28836	From: Jerry Lynch	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish? I made an error in a previous post
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28837	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28838	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28839	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish? I made an error in a previous post
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28840	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28841	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28842	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28843	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head! <] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Mar
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28844	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head! <] How do I clean or change the impeller on ...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28845	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28846	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28847	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/26/2008
Subject: How long before the babies grow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28848	From: pam andress	Date: 7/26/2008
Subject: Re: How long before the babies grow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28849	From: Kelley Lee	Date: 7/26/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28850	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/26/2008
Subject: Moving Right Along
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28851	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/26/2008
Subject: Platy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28852	From: babsdvs	Date: 7/27/2008
Subject: New impeller
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28853	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/27/2008
Subject: Re: New impeller
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28854	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/27/2008
Subject: Re: about those impeller instructions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28855	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/27/2008
Subject: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those impell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28856	From: Kristin	Date: 7/27/2008
Subject: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28857	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/28/2008
Subject: Re: about those impeller instructions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28858	From: joe t	Date: 7/28/2008
Subject: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28859	From: Kristin	Date: 7/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28860	From: Kelley Lee	Date: 7/28/2008
Subject: Moving right along. :0)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28861	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/28/2008
Subject: Re: about those impeller instructions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28862	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: about those impeller instructions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28863	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those im
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28864	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Antibiotic Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28865	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those im
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28866	From: Matthew O' Farrell	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those im
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28867	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those im
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28868	From: jett07002	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28869	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those im
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28870	From: thee_raven2006	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Puffer Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28871	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those im
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28872	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Puffer Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28873	From: Debra	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Puffer Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28874	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotic Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28875	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28876	From: Kristin	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28877	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Salt in FW Aquaria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28878	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28879	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Salt in FW Aquaria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28880	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Salt in FW Aquaria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28881	From: pam andress	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Salt in FW Aquaria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28882	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Salt in FW Aquaria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28883	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotic Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28884	From: jacob avera	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28885	From: thee_raven2006	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Puffer Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28886	From: tteitgen	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Puffer Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28887	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28888	From: Anndrea	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Lonnng post...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28889	From: risika23	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28890	From: Anndrea	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28891	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28892	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28893	From: Rich	Date: 7/31/2008
Subject: Re: Lonnng post... (Bettas)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28894	From: Matt	Date: 7/31/2008
Subject: new to the list!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28895	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/31/2008
Subject: Re: Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28896	From: robert_bussey	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Hi All !!! New On The Site
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28897	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Re: Hi All !!! New On The Site
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28898	From: wellrimdangel	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: New with a ? about tank repair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28899	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28900	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28901	From: Anndrea	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Re: Lonnng post... (Bettas)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28902	From: pam andress	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Re: Hi All !!! New On The Site
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28903	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Re: Hi All !!! New On The Site
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28904	From: Matt	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: pic's of my 30 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28905	From: Matt	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: pic's of my 30 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28906	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: pic's of my 30 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28907	From: Angel	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28908	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28909	From: Rafael O. Murillo	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28910	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28911	From: Angel	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28912	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28913	From: vivian bradish	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28914	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28915	From: Matt	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28916	From: Wendie	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28917	From: pam andress	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28918	From: Angel	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28919	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28920	From: caroline	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: pic's of my 30 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28921	From: Wendy Myers	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28922	From: james	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: my kids and a frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28923	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: my kids and a frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28924	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: green beard algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28925	From: james	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: my kids and a frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28926	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: green beard algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28927	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: pic's of my 30 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28928	From: chris.2033	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: SIZE of TANKS for 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28929	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: SIZE of TANKS for 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28930	From: chris.2033	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: my kids and a frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28931	From: Matt	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28932	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28933	From: Angel	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28934	From: Angel	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: SIZE of TANKS for 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28935	From: Matt	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28936	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28937	From: Kurt Johnston	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: ACLC Swap Meet Announcement
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28938	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: my kids and a frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28939	From: Matt	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28940	From: Angel	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28941	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28942	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28943	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28944	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28945	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: my kids and a frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28946	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: SIZE of TANKS for 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28947	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28948	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28949	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: green beard algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28951	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: my kids and a frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28952	From: tillmanalbany	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28953	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28954	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28955	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28956	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28957	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28958	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28959	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28960	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28961	From: Matt	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28962	From: Matt	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28963	From: Angel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28964	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: clubs in Philly/nj
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28965	From: Angel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28966	From: wellrimdangel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Suggestion to Mod.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28967	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28968	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Suggestion to Mod.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28969	From: Matt	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28971	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28972	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28973	From: Angel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Suggestion to Mod.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28974	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28975	From: vivian bradish	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Time to add a few fish, any suggestions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28976	From: Matt	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Re%3A%201st%20Fresh%20Water%20Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: green beard algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28979	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Suggestion to Mod.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28980	From: Matt	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28981	From: Rich	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Fw: Lonnng post... (Bettas)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28982	From: pam andress	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: clubs in Philly/nj
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28983	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28984	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28985	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: clubs in Philly/nj
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28986	From: Kurt Johnston	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: clubs in Philly/nj
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28987	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28988	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28989	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28990	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28991	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: clubs in Philly/nj
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28992	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28993	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28994	From: SUE	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28995	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28996	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28998	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28999	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29000	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29001	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29002	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29004	From: dapi_editor	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: looking for
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29005	From: Angel	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29006	From: tillmanalbany	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: 1st F.W. Aquarium again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29007	From: L. Gove	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29008	From: K'lyn	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29009	From: K'lyn	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29010	From: pam andress	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29011	From: Judith Downing	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Web auctions for fish/plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29012	From: jett07002	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: looking for
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29013	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29014	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29015	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29016	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29017	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29018	From: jett07002	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st F.W. Aquarium again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29019	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29020	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29021	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29022	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29023	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29024	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st F.W. Aquarium again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29025	From: Amalthea X	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29026	From: Angel	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29027	From: Angel	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29028	From: Angel	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29029	From: Angel	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29031	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29032	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29033	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29034	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st F.W. Aquarium again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29036	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29037	From: junglejingles	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29038	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29039	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: My new 20 gallon aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29040	From: vivian bradish	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Looking for fish that are peaceful but a little more exotic than wha
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29041	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29042	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29043	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29044	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29045	From: Angel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29046	From: Angel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29047	From: Angel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29048	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: filter cleaning question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29049	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29050	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29051	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29052	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29053	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: filter cleaning question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29054	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29055	From: junglejingles	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29056	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29057	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29058	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29059	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29060	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29061	From: L. Gove	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29062	From: L. Gove	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: OT question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29063	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29064	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29065	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29066	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29067	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29068	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29069	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29070	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29071	From: Anndrea	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29072	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29073	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29074	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29075	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29076	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29077	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29078	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29079	From: harry perry	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish /Actually
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29080	From: Pandion59@gmail.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29081	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29082	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29083	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29084	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29085	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29086	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29087	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29088	From: Paula Brown	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Filter Intake Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29089	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29090	From: Debra	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29092	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29093	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29094	From: L. Gove	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29095	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29096	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29097	From: Helen	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: WANTED: FISH TANK STAND
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29098	From: Angel	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29099	From: Matthew O' Farrell	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29101	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29102	From: john_walmer	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: custom fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29103	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Sick Gold Ram, but what?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29104	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29105	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29106	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29107	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29108	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29109	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29110	From: Angel	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29111	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29112	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29113	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: trick for extra bio wheels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29114	From: James Springer	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29115	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29116	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29117	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29118	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29119	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29120	From: Anndrea	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29121	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: snails- oh my!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29122	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29123	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: My name is Patricia.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29124	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29125	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29126	From: allen elliott	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: My name is Allen.(Introduction and reply to Patricia)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29127	From: Jenn	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Freshwater Pipefish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29128	From: Jenn	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: New photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29129	From: harry perry	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29130	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Snails, plants and confusion
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29131	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: New photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29132	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Snails, plants and confusion
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29133	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: New photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29134	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: spray bar position?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29135	From: wellrimdangel	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29136	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: spray bar position?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29137	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: spray bar position?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29138	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: spray bar position?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29139	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: spray bar position?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29140	From: Jenn	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29141	From: harry perry	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29142	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29143	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29144	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Snails, plants and confusion
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29145	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: need info for Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model # AC-1
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29146	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Snails, plants and confusion
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: need info for Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model # AC-1
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29148	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Rain Forest Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29149	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29150	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29151	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29152	From: Alan Henney	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Turtle ID?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29154	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29155	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29156	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29158	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 8/11/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29159	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 8/11/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29160	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/11/2008
Subject: I am new here : My name is Patricia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29161	From: Alan Henney	Date: 8/11/2008
Subject: Turtle ID?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29162	From: Jenn	Date: 8/11/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29163	From: Alan Henney	Date: 8/11/2008
Subject: Turtle ID?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29164	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 8/12/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29165	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/12/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29166	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29167	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29168	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/12/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29169	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29170	From: vivian bradish	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: Question about Gourami's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29171	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Gourami's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29172	From: L. Gove	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Gourami's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29173	From: Helen	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: WANTED: TANK STAND
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29174	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: TANK STAND
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29175	From: Paula Brown	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: Cory's Cross-Breeding?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29176	From: wildyandangel	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: INTRODUCTOIN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29177	From: pam andress	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: Re: Cory's Cross-Breeding?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29178	From: vivian bradish	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Gravel Cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29179	From: Helen	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: TANK STAND
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29180	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29181	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: TANK STAND
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29182	From: Mark Hough	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29183	From: moaaz amouri	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: hello turtel ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29184	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29185	From: harry perry	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish/5 gal.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29186	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish/5 gal.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29187	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29188	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29189	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29190	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29191	From: kolkri@gmail.com	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29192	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29193	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: Home Page Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29194	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29195	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29196	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29197	From: wildyandangel	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: WANTED
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29198	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29199	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29200	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29201	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29202	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29203	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29204	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29205	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29206	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29207	From: Rich	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re :How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29208	From: Anndrea	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Oscar foods?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29209	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29210	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29211	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: Oscar foods?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29213	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29214	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29215	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29216	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29217	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29218	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29219	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29220	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29221	From: Texas_Tears2000	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: how many fish do u put in a 5 galloon tank ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29222	From: harry perry	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish/ Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29223	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29224	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish/ Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29225	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish/ Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29226	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish/ Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29227	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Need info on Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model AC-1
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29228	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need info on Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model AC-1
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29229	From: freefallfroggie	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29230	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29231	From: Debra	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29232	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29233	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29234	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29235	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29236	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need info on Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model AC-1
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29237	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29238	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29239	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29240	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29241	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29242	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29243	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29244	From: Jenn	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Bushy nosed pleco compatibility
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29245	From: freefallfroggie	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29246	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29247	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29248	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29249	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29250	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now the spelling bee)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29251	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Bushy nosed pleco compatibility
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29252	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29253	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29255	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29256	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29257	From: shoedudenumb1	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: aquatic frogs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29258	From: Bruce	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29259	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29260	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29261	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29262	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29263	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29264	From: Tania	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29265	From: mike	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: wet dry filter problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29266	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: frogs :
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29267	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: aquatic frogs - were do u get frogs,aquariums,pond frogs at
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29268	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: frogs :
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29269	From: james	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: HELP my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29271	From: kolkri@gmail.com	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29272	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29273	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29274	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29275	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29276	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: frogs :
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29277	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29278	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29279	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29280	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29281	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29282	From: kolkri@gmail.com	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29283	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29284	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29285	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: frogs :
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29286	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29287	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29288	From: kolkri@gmail.com	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29289	From: mike	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29290	From: mike	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29291	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29292	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29293	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29294	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: frogs :ok , i wouldnt put in with fish thin..........
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29295	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29296	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29297	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29298	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29299	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29300	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: OT RE: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & quest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29301	From: mike	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29302	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29303	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29304	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29305	From: Blue fish	Date: 8/19/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29306	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29307	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29308	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29309	From: Chris	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Introducing myself
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29310	From: Chris	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Who here does aquaponics?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29311	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29312	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who here does aquaponics?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29313	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who here does aquaponics?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29314	From: Paula Brown	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Growing Timeframe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29315	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Growing Timeframe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29316	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29317	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29318	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29319	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29320	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Growing Timeframe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29321	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29322	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29323	From: Paula Brown	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Growing Timeframe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29324	From: Texas_Tears2000	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: hello fishie group, i changed my my small tank 2 day.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29325	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/22/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29326	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/22/2008
Subject: Re: how many fish do u put in a 5 galloon tank ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29327	From: amazing_grace1962	Date: 8/22/2008
Subject: Hello New here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29328	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/22/2008
Subject: Re: Hello New here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29329	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2008
Subject: Re: Hello New here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29330	From: Chris	Date: 8/23/2008
Subject: Noob question - Water changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29331	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2008
Subject: Re: Noob question - Water changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29332	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/23/2008
Subject: Re: Noob question - Water changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29333	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Noob question - Water changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29334	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29335	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM][AquaticLife] Noob question - Water changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29336	From: babsdvs	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: New filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29337	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29338	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29339	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: New filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29340	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29341	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29342	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: New filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29343	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29344	From: Chris	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Activated Charcoal and Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29345	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29346	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Charcoal and Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29347	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Charcoal and Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29348	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: New filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29349	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29350	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: New filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29351	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29352	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: New filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29353	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: peas for goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29354	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: peas for goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29355	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: peas for goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29356	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: peas for goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29357	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: peas for goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Charcoal and Nitrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29359	From: Chris	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29360	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29361	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29362	From: Chris	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Plants, Hardwater, Amonia, Nitrates, and cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29363	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Plants, Hardwater, Amonia, Nitrates, and cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29364	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Plants, Hardwater, Amonia, Nitrates, and cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29365	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: can i add 2 fish links
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29366	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29367	From: pscottdouglass	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29368	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: onion plant in gold fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29369	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29371	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29372	From: tillmanalbany	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: New w/sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29373	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29374	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29375	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29376	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29377	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29378	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29379	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29380	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29381	From: tillmanalbany	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29382	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29383	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29384	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29385	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29386	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29387	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29388	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29389	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Ich or Cloudy/Pop Eye cure first?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29390	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich or Cloudy/Pop Eye cure first?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29391	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29392	From: tillmanalbany	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29394	From: Texas_Tears2000	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: link my_fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29395	From: Chris	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29396	From: Chris	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29397	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29398	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29399	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29400	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29401	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29402	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29403	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29404	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29405	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29407	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29408	From: Angela Bauer	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29409	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29410	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29411	From: Chris	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29412	From: Chris	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29413	From: Chris	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29414	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29415	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29416	From: Chris	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29417	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29418	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29419	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29420	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29421	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29422	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29423	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29424	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29425	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29426	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29427	From: Angela Bauer	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29428	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29429	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29430	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29431	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29432	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29433	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29434	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sharks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29435	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29436	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sharks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29437	From: Angela Bauer	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29438	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29439	From: Chris	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29440	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29441	From: Angela Bauer	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29442	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29443	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29444	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29445	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29446	From: james	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29447	From: William J. Scott	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29449	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29450	From: rsteph49	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Looking for suggestions on a new fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29451	From: Alina	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: New member: Alina in Florida
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29452	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: New member: Alina in Florida
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29453	From: joe t	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29454	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29455	From: Mark Berman	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29456	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29457	From: Chris	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29458	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29459	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29460	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29461	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29462	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29463	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29464	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29465	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29466	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29467	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29468	From: Alina	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: New member: Alina in Florida
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29469	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: New to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29470	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29471	From: risika23	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29472	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29473	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29474	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29475	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29476	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29477	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29478	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29479	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29480	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29481	From: Margie	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29482	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29483	From: Chris	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Distilled Water or Our Precious Bodily Fluids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29484	From: vivian bradish	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29485	From: Chris	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29486	From: Chris	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29487	From: Chris	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29488	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29489	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29490	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29491	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29492	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29493	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29494	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29495	From: Chris	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29496	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29497	From: Chris	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29498	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29499	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29500	From: joe t	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29501	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29502	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29503	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29504	From: Chris	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Air Wisp & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29505	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29506	From: Chris	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29507	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29508	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29509	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29510	From: Chris	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29511	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29512	From: Chris	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29513	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29514	From: Chris	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29515	From: Chris	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29516	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29517	From: mike	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem **** SOLVED *****
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29518	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29520	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29521	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29522	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29523	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29524	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: much of my substrate is green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29525	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: much of my substrate is green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29526	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29527	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Lenny RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29528	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29529	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29530	From: Alina	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Size of filter pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29531	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Size of filter pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29532	From: Tricia Wilkerson	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Future project thought.... was hoping for some input
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29533	From: Chris	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29534	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Future project thought.... was hoping for some input
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29535	From: Chris	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Future project thought.... was hoping for some input
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29536	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Future project thought.... was hoping for some input
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29537	From: Chris	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29538	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Future project thought.... was hoping for some input
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29539	From: chuck whhitmarsh	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: for sale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29540	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: for sale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29541	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: for sale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29542	From: chuck whhitmarsh	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: for sale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29543	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: for sale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29544	From: babsdvs	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: OT - Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29545	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: for sale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29546	From: cin	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: GUSTAV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29547	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: for sale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29548	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: OT - Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29549	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: 500 Gallon DIY Outside Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29550	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29551	From: lizkakot	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Those who live in the Santa Cruz area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29552	From: Margie	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: OT - Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29553	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: OT - Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29554	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: angelfish problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29555	From: Margie	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Those who live in the Santa Cruz area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29556	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29557	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: angelfish problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29558	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: angelfish problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29559	From: Lenny Vasbinder	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29560	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29561	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29562	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29563	From: Lenny Vasbinder	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29564	From: schroedel2003	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: need advise on skimmer.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29565	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: angelfish problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29566	From: Chris	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: My Quarantein Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29567	From: Chris	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29568	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: My Quarantein Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29569	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29570	From: jedi_n_dc	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Plants for a shady pond?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29571	From: Lenny Vasbinder	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29572	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: OT - Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: 500 Gallon DIY Outside Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29575	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Plants for a shady pond?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29576	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29577	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29578	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29579	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: My Quarantein Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29580	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29581	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: My Quarantein Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29582	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29583	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29584	From: jedi_n_dc	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Plants for a shady pond?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29585	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: angelfish problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29586	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29587	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29588	From: lizkakot	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Plants for a shady pond?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29589	From: Chris	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: My Quarantein Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29590	From: Chris	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29591	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: 500 Gallon DIY Outside Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29592	From: kid_collector_06	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Pond overrun w/ algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29593	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29594	From: Lenny Vasbinder	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: 500 Gallon DIY Outside Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29595	From: Lenny Vasbinder	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Pond overrun w/ algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29596	From: Lenny Vasbinder	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29597	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29598	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29599	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29600	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Pond overrun w/ algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29601	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29602	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Pond overrun w/ algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29603	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: My Quarantein Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29604	From: Chris	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Pond overrun w/ algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29605	From: joe t	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29606	From: Chris	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Am I asking for trouble?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29607	From: Chris	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29608	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29609	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29610	From: Chris	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29611	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Brown stuff in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29612	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29613	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29614	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29615	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Brown stuff in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29616	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29617	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29618	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29619	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV - OT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29620	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29621	From: pam andress	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29622	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29623	From: pam andress	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29624	From: Margie	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29625	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Brown stuff in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29626	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29627	From: joe t	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29628	From: N Taweel	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Angelfish disease?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29629	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29630	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] Angelfish disease?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29631	From: PATRICIA SALZMANN	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Brown stuff in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29632	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29633	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29634	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29636	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish disease?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29637	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29638	From: Chris	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29639	From: Chris	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29640	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29641	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29642	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29643	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29644	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29645	From: Margie	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29646	From: Margie	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29647	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish disease?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29648	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29649	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29650	From: Margie	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29651	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29652	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29653	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29654	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29655	From: Margie	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29656	From: Margie	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29657	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29658	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29659	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29660	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29661	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29662	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29663	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29664	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Brown stuff in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29665	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29666	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29667	From: Chris	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29668	From: Chris	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29669	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Pond overrun w/ algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29670	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Pond overrun w/ algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29671	From: Chris	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29672	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29673	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29674	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29675	From: Margie	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29676	From: N Taweel	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish disease?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29677	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29678	From: joe t	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29679	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish disease?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29680	From: Chris	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29681	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29682	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29683	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29684	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29685	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29686	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29687	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29688	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29689	From: mike	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: u tube syphon air bubble problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29690	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29691	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29692	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29693	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Filter cleanings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29694	From: Paula Brown	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Request from a Digester
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29695	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29696	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29697	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29698	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: Filter cleanings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29699	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: u tube syphon air bubble problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29702	From: rsteph49	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29703	From: Chris	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Request from a Digester
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29705	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Request from a Digester
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29706	From: Blue fish	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29707	From: Helen	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Help: my fish stop growing.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29708	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29709	From: rsteph49	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29710	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29711	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29712	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29713	From: rsteph49	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29714	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29715	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Help: my fish stop growing.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29716	From: Margie	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29717	From: Margie	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29718	From: mike	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: u tube syphon air bubble problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29719	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29720	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29721	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: u tube syphon air bubble problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29722	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29723	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29724	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29725	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29726	From: mike	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: : air bubble problem & evaporation question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29727	From: Chris	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Request from a Digester
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29728	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29729	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: : air bubble problem & evaporation question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29730	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: LittleSprite's Nitrate and pH issues (was Re:old tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29731	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29732	From: alice_summer2008	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29733	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29734	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29735	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29736	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29737	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29738	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29739	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29740	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Fun Fish Housekeeping Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29741	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29742	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29743	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29744	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29745	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29747	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29748	From: Wendie	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29749	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29750	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29751	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29752	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29753	From: Wildyspage3girl@aol.com	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: as you love fish,a pic for you of our tank and fish, regards, wildy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29754	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Question on snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29755	From: pam andress	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question on snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29756	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29757	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: old tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29758	From: Bill Lane	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Some ID help please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29759	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29760	From: Margie	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29762	From: Tony Lucas	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29763	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29764	From: pam andress	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29765	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: as you love fish,a pic for you of our tank and fish, regards, wi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29766	From: Margie	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29767	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29768	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29769	From: pam andress	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29770	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29771	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help: my fish stop growing.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29772	From: Bill Lane	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Gold Chunk II
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29773	From: pam andress	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Gold Chunk II
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29774	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Gold Chunk II
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29775	From: Chris	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Water PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29776	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29777	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29778	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29779	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29780	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29781	From: clubsprint	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29782	From: Mike	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29783	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29784	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29785	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29786	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29787	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29788	From: Chris	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29789	From: Dr. Norman Ali Khalaf	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Cetacea Palaestina : The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29790	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29792	From: Chris	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29793	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29794	From: Margie	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29795	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29796	From: Chris	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29797	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29798	From: Chris	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29799	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29800	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29801	From: harry perry	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply/Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29802	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29803	From: harry perry	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: The Grouply story
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29804	From: Margie	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29805	From: Margie	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Grouply story
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29806	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Grouply story
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29807	From: harry perry	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Grouply story/Tinyurl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29808	From: Joe	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29809	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Cetacea Palaestina : The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Wate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29810	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Cetacea Palaestina : The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Wate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29811	From: Jenn	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Labidochromis sp. Hongi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29812	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29813	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/9/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29814	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/9/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29815	From: Chris	Date: 9/9/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29816	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/9/2008
Subject: Re: Labidochromis sp. Hongi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29817	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/9/2008
Subject: Re: Labidochromis sp. Hongi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29818	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/9/2008
Subject: Re: Labidochromis sp. Hongi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29819	From: jett07002	Date: 9/10/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29820	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/10/2008
Subject: Snail disaster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29821	From: Joe	Date: 9/11/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29822	From: ED	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29823	From: jett07002	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29824	From: pam andress	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29825	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29826	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29827	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29828	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29829	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29830	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29831	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29833	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29834	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29835	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29836	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29837	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29838	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: FW: MODERATE -- bertindakpantas@yahoo.com posted to AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29839	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29840	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29841	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29842	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29843	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29844	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Are there gold fish suitable for home aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29845	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29846	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29847	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29848	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29849	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29850	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29851	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Are there gold fish suitable for home aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29852	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29854	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29855	From: cin	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29856	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29857	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29858	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29859	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29860	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29861	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29862	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29863	From: cin	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29865	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29866	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29867	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29868	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29869	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29870	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29871	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29872	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29873	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29874	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29875	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29876	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29877	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29878	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29879	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29880	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29881	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29882	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: My danio jumped out of its container and I stepped on it
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29883	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29884	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29885	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29886	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29887	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29888	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29889	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Can I still use this water?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29890	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: My danio jumped out of its container and I stepped on it
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29891	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29893	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29894	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can I still use this water?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29895	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: interesting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29896	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29897	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: interesting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29898	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: interesting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29899	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29900	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can I still use this water?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29901	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: interesting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29903	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29904	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29905	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29906	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: My danio jumped out of its container and I stepped on it
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29907	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29908	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29909	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29910	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29911	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29912	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29913	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29914	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29915	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29916	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29917	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Cleaning Gravel in planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29918	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29919	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29920	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29921	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29922	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29923	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29924	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: interesting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29925	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning Gravel in planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29927	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29928	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29929	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29930	From: Margie	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29931	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29932	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29933	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29934	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29935	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29936	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29937	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29938	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29939	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29940	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29941	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29942	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning Gravel in planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29943	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29944	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29945	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29947	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: One of my swordtails died tonight.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29948	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: One of my swordtails died tonight.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29949	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29950	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: One of my swordtails died tonight.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29951	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29952	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: One of my swordtails died tonight.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29953	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29954	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29955	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29956	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29957	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29958	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29959	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29960	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29961	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: One of my swordtails died tonight.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29962	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29963	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29964	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: One of my swordtails died tonight.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29966	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29967	From: Tony Lucas	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29968	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Off topic. links for weather definitions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29969	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29971	From: Wendy Myers	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29972	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29973	From: Margie	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29974	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29975	From: Margie	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29976	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29977	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29978	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29979	From: Wendy Myers	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29980	From: Wendy Myers	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29981	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29982	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29984	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29985	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29986	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29987	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29988	From: GEF/UNDP/UNOPS PEMSEA	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Happy International Coastal Clean Up Day!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29989	From: Peaches	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29990	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: Happy International Coastal Clean Up Day!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29991	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29992	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29993	From: Peaches	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29994	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29995	From: Edgar Javison	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29996	From: Peaches	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29998	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29999	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30000	From: Suzi	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30001	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30002	From: ED	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30003	From: ED	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30004	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30006	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30007	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Nitrate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30008	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30009	From: Suzi	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30010	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30011	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30012	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Suzi's Pleco and Betta (was: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30013	From: Suzi	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Suzi's Pleco and Betta (was: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30014	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30015	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30016	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30018	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30019	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30020	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30021	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30022	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30023	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30024	From: freefallfroggie	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Suzi's Pleco and Betta (was: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Suzi's Pleco and Betta (was: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30026	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30027	From: Chris	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30028	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30029	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30031	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30032	From: Chris	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30033	From: Chris	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Getting ready to add the first fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30034	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30036	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30037	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30038	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30039	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30040	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30041	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30042	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30043	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30044	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Getting ready to add the first fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30045	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30046	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30047	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Comunity tank 22g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30048	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Comunity tank 22g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30049	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Comunity tank 22g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30050	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30051	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30052	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30053	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30054	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Getting ready to add the first fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30055	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Comunity tank 22g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30056	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Comunity tank 22g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30057	From: Suzi	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: I have a question Lenny..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30058	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30059	From: Suzi	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30060	From: Mark Hough	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30061	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30062	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30063	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30064	From: Mark Hough	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30065	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Comunity tank 22g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30066	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30067	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30068	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30069	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30070	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Comunity tank 22g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30071	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30072	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Unidentified fish under new photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30073	From: MADAN LOMBAR	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: Unidentified fish under new photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30075	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30076	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30077	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30078	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30079	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM]RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30080	From: harry perry	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency/Tania relax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30081	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30082	From: harry perry	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: saltwater tank /Vivian
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30083	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30084	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: The Sant Ocean Hall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30085	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30086	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30087	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30088	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30089	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30090	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30093	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30094	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30095	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30096	From: Wendie	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30097	From: Wendie	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30098	From: pam andress	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30099	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30100	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30101	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30102	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30103	From: Margie	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30104	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: PH cures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30105	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30106	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Unidentified fish under new photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30107	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30108	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30109	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30110	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30111	From: Voodoo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Freshwater jellyfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30112	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30113	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30114	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30115	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30116	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30117	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30118	From: Alina	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30119	From: Wendie	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30120	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30122	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30123	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30124	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30125	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30126	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30127	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30128	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: 10 ugly fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30129	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30130	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30131	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30132	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater jellyfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30133	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30134	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30135	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30136	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30137	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30138	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30139	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30140	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30141	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30142	From: pam andress	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30143	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30144	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30145	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30146	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30148	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30149	From: laraandgirls	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30150	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: 10 ugly fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30151	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30152	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30153	From: Margie	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30154	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: in search of something different
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30155	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30156	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: in search of something different
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30157	From: pam andress	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: in search of something different
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30158	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: in search of something different
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30159	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: in search of something different
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30160	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30161	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30162	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: 10 ugly fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30163	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30164	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: in search of something different
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30165	From: pam andress	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30166	From: laraandgirls	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30167	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Scouting Research
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30168	From: lizkakot	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30169	From: Red Terror	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: DISCUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30170	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30171	From: Margie	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30173	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30174	From: Margie	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30176	From: Margie	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30177	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30178	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30179	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30180	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30181	From: lizkakot	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30183	From: junglejingles	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Unidentified fish under new photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30184	From: Kurt Johnston	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: ACLC Reminder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30185	From: Margie	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30186	From: Wendie	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: in search of something different
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30187	From: Blue fish	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30188	From: Chris	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: check this out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30189	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: ph Balance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30190	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30191	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Book Abstracts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30192	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30193	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30194	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30195	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30196	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Book Abstracts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30197	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30198	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30199	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Book Abstracts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30200	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30201	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: check this out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30202	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30203	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Urgent! Tb? follow up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30204	From: Margie	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30205	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Book Abstracts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30206	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30208	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? Tania
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30209	From: hank voss	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Book Abstracts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30210	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Book Abstracts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? Tania
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30212	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? Tania/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30213	From: Chris	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30214	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30215	From: Margie	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30216	From: Chris	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30217	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30218	From: Chris	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30219	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Book Abstracts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30220	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. /So Chris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30221	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30222	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30223	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? Tania/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30224	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30225	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30226	From: lizkakot	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30227	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30228	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30229	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30230	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30231	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30232	From: laraandgirls	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30233	From: Erik	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30234	From: Chris	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30235	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30236	From: Chris	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30237	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? /Tania, mixing meds.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30238	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30239	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30240	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30242	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30243	From: Margie	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30244	From: Margie	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? /Tania, mixing meds.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30245	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30246	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30247	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. /So Chris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30248	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. /So Chris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30249	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30250	From: canampc	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30251	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up/Tania again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30252	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30253	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30254	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30255	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30256	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30257	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30258	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30259	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30260	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30261	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30262	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30263	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30264	From: Edgar Javison	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30265	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30266	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no longer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30267	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30268	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Dead Angel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30269	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: new tetra safestart
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30270	From: pam andress	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no lo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30271	From: Erik	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30272	From: CanAm	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: new tetra safestart
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30273	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: new tetra safestart
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30274	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no lo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30275	From: CanAm	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: new tetra safestart
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30276	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no lo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30277	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Angel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30278	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Food Suppliment: Algae Wafers/Vitamins
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30279	From: Margie	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30280	From: Margie	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30281	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30282	From: N Taweel	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30283	From: Edgar Javison	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30284	From: CanAm	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30285	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30286	From: Chris	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30287	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Angel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30288	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Angel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30289	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30291	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30292	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Angel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30293	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Those who live in the Santa Cruz area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30294	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: October 4 is Fish Mega Auction!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30295	From: Chris	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30296	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Lightning Trout --------- >< ) ) ) *>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30297	From: Edgar Javison	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: I'm enamored by catfish! Now, I've got a problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30298	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Angel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30299	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30300	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30301	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30302	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30303	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no lo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30304	From: Chris	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30305	From: Chris	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30306	From: CanAm	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30307	From: Margie	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30308	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30309	From: CanAm	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30310	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30311	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30312	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30313	From: jett07002	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30314	From: Richard Haley	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30315	From: Margie	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30316	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30317	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30318	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30319	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30320	From: Margie	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30321	From: CanAm	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30322	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30323	From: CanAm	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30324	From: CanAm	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30325	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30326	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs (Baby Brine Shrimp)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30327	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30328	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs (Baby Brine Shrimp)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30329	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30330	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30331	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs (Baby Brine Shrimp)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30332	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30333	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30334	From: Jim	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: There are bargains out there...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30335	From: Jim	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30336	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30337	From: Leonard Vasbinder	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30338	From: Richard Haley	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30339	From: Saps Gal	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Newbie to the group saying hello and adding some info on my tanks!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30340	From: N Taweel	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30341	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs (Baby Brine Shrimp)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30342	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30343	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30344	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30345	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: whites of their eyes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30346	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30347	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30348	From: N Taweel	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30349	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30350	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30351	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30352	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30353	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: My Male Guppie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30354	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30355	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie to the group saying hello and adding some info on my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30356	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30357	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30359	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30360	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30361	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30362	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30363	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30364	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30365	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30366	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30367	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30368	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30369	From: Margie	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: vacuum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30370	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30371	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30372	From: pam andress	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30373	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30374	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30375	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30376	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30377	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: What cold fish you like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30378	From: Margie	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30379	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30380	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30381	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30382	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30383	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30384	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30385	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30386	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30387	From: Margie	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30388	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30389	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie to the group saying hello and adding some info on my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30390	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30391	From: Gambusia Affinis	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: What cold fish you like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30392	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30395	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30396	From: Summerfun	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Mating Texas Cichlids (think I removed wrong fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30397	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: What cold fish you like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30398	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30399	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: What cold fish you like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30400	From: pam andress	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30401	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: What cold fish you like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30402	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30403	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30404	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30405	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30407	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30408	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Mating Texas Cichlids (think I removed wrong fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30409	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30410	From: Margie	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30411	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Cycling - Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30412	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling - Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30413	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30414	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling - Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30415	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30416	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling - Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30417	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30418	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30419	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling - Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30420	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30421	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30422	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30423	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30424	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30425	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling - Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30426	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30427	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30428	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30429	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30430	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30431	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30432	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30435	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30436	From: jules27au	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Yet - Another Ammonia Query
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30437	From: jtpollito	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: plywood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30438	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30439	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30440	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30441	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30442	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30443	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30444	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30445	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30446	From: jtpollito	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Yet - Another Ammonia Query
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30447	From: jason	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: plywood anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30449	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30450	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30451	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30452	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30453	From: Jason Boldt	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30454	From: jason	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30455	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30456	From: Jason Boldt	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30457	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30458	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30459	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30460	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Fasting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30461	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30462	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fasting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30463	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30464	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: plywood anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30465	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30466	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30467	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30468	From: CanAm	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Funny thing about my angel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30469	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Funny thing about my angel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30470	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30471	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30472	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30473	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30474	From: josh4fish	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Bubbles...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30475	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30476	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling - Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30477	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fasting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30478	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30479	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30480	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30481	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30482	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Bubbles...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30483	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30484	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30485	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30486	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30487	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fasting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30488	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30489	From: josh4fish	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Bubbles...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30490	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30491	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30492	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fasting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30493	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30494	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Bubbles...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30495	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30496	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fasting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30497	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: My Bubbles!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30498	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30499	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30500	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: My Bubbles!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30501	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30502	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: My Bubbles!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30503	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Yet - Another Ammonia Query
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30504	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: My Bubbles!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30505	From: CanAm	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30506	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30507	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30508	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: My Bubbles!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30509	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30511	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30512	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30513	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30514	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: My Bubbles!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30515	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30516	From: CanAm	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30517	From: CanAm	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30518	From: Richard Haley	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30520	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30521	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30522	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30523	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30524	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30525	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30526	From: CanAm	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30527	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30528	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30529	From: CanAm	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30530	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30531	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30532	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30533	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30534	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30535	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30536	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30537	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30538	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: I rescued a fish tank, hope I am taking the right steps to save the
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30539	From: Alina	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Aquarium Temps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30540	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30541	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: I rescued a fish tank, hope I am taking the right steps to ...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30542	From: hank voss	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Temps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30543	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Update on my fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30544	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30545	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: I rescued a fish tank, hope I am taking the right steps to save
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30546	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Temps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30547	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30548	From: Alison	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Hard Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30549	From: Suzy Smith	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30550	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Hard Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30551	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30552	From: Saps Gal	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30553	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30554	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30555	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30556	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30557	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30558	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30559	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30560	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30561	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30562	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30563	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30564	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30565	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30566	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30567	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30568	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30569	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30570	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30571	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30572	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: High KH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30573	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: High KH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30575	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: High KH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30576	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30577	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30578	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: High KH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30579	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30580	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: High KH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30581	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30582	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30583	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30584	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30585	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30586	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30587	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30588	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30589	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30590	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30591	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30592	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30593	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30596	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30597	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30598	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30599	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30600	From: Richard Haley	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30601	From: Richard Haley	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30602	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30603	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30604	From: Richard Haley	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Temps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30605	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30606	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30607	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30608	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30609	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Scouting Oceans
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30610	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you recommend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30611	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30612	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30613	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30614	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30615	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30616	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30617	From: Chris	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I'm gonna get pounced..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30618	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Hey Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30619	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30620	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I'm gonna get pounced..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30621	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I'm gonna get pounced..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30622	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30623	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30624	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30625	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30626	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30627	From: uttam kumar	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30628	From: Saps Gal	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30629	From: Alison	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hard Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30630	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30631	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30633	From: Chris	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30634	From: Chris	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I'm gonna get pounced..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I'm gonna get pounced..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30636	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30637	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Fish store fun
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30638	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fish store fun
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30639	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30640	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fish store fun
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30641	From: canampc	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30642	From: CanAm	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: The Excel was : Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30643	From: CanAm	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Chris problems
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30644	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30645	From: CanAm	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30646	From: CanAm	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30647	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30648	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30649	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30650	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30651	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30652	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30653	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30654	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30655	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30656	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30657	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30658	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: LFS recommendation request
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30659	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30660	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: LFS recommendation request
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30661	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: new plants new fish- ahhhhhh
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30662	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30663	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30664	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30665	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30666	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30667	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Update on my Angel wigglers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30668	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my Angel wigglers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30669	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30670	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30671	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: An interesting Link about chemistry of water and other
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30672	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30673	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30674	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30675	From: Chris	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Thank You!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30676	From: canampc	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30677	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30678	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30679	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30680	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30681	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30682	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30683	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30684	From: jett07002	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30685	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: whats water chemistry ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30686	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30687	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: whats water chemistry ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30688	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: new filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30689	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30690	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: whats water chemistry ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30691	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: new filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30692	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: An interesting Link about chemistry of water and other
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30693	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30694	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30695	From: Alina	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Apple snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30696	From: josh4fish	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30697	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30698	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30699	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Apple snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Apple snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30702	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30703	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30704	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Fin problems and redness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30705	From: Nedra	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30706	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30707	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30708	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Fin problems and redness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30709	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30710	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30711	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30712	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30713	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30714	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30715	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30716	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30717	From: Chris	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30719	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30720	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30721	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30722	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30723	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30724	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? ...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30725	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30726	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Moving fromTX to Ky
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30727	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30728	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Moving fromTX to Ky
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30729	From: Chris	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30730	From: Alina	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Apple snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30731	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Apple snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30732	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30733	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30734	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30735	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30736	From: josh4fish	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30737	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30738	From: josh4fish	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30739	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Todays water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30740	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Todays water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30741	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Todays water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30742	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30743	From: Alison	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30744	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Todays water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30745	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Todays water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30747	From: deborahgd14	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30748	From: deborahgd14	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Moving fromTX to Ky
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30749	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30750	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30751	From: Nedra	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30752	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Todays water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30753	From: Nedra	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Setting up a 55 gal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30754	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 gal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30755	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30756	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30757	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30758	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 gal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30759	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30760	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Todays water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30762	From: Texas_Tears2000	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: apple snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30763	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Todays water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30764	From: harry perry	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 gal/Nedra
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30765	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Sarah Huss' thread (was Re: Todays water) (that will keep them s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30766	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: apple snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30767	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Base line test
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30768	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30769	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Base line test

---

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25208	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?

Diane, From your further posts, and your description in noting snail eggs within the water column and not above the surface line, I'd have to think these snails are of the smaller varieties, most probably either Pond or Ramshorn Snails. As such, depending on your tank size, its present stocking density and your propensity for adding additional fish with your Guppies and Mollies if these above conditions warrant it -- and your fondness (or lack of) members of the Botia Family, you might want to consider adding a couple of Clown Loaches which will relish these snails and make short work of them. Be advised though, that these Loaches can get upwards of 12" or so, but they grow rather slowly (probably as nearly to many years as it is to reach this 12" size). As they approach getting too large for your tank, you could always trade them back to any cooperative LFS. Since they do prefer the company of conspecifics, they do better in this situation rather than by themselves. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Diane" <diane_20007@...> wrote: > > Hi. I have a fresh water tank with guppies and mollies. It is being > over run with snails. Does anyone know how to get rid of them? Thanks > Diane >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25209	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Substrate question - planted tanks

Thank you Beverly for the welcome! :) I'm still in the planning stages and can't seem to get past what to put on the bottom of the tank! The more I read, the more confusing it gets. I'm doing a cool water set up, making it easy on myself and planning on buying a collection of plants already put together by the nursery (I'll add to later as I become more confident in how to choose plants -- but starting out with a 150 gallon tank, the initial planting can be an expert's collection.) After the plants have settled in and the tank has cycled, we'll be adding fish (cool water species, obviously -- although the tank does have a heater, which is probably good because in winter especially my house gets a little chilly.) I have a nice sunny front window to put the tank up next to, as well as adding grow lights for the plants, especially in winter when no window in this house gets any light! I haven't checked out the filter system that comes w/ the set up yet (buying used), but will add to as necessary. Any suggestions from real people actually using one substrate or another would be greatly appreciated (as would any other advice -- this is really new to me, but I appreciate the beauty of a planted tank so much more than a "regular" tank, even though it is a good deal more expensive to set up. We're taking it in stages and I'm learning the value of patience ;) Thanks! Helen --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25210	From: Kevin	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: first person who like doing water changes

Thanks Steve! In all honesty I do not have gravel in my tank at the moment. I do have large rock formations and drift wood but no substrate. I have been meaning to add small gravel (have even purchased a bunch) but haven't put any in for fear of disturbing the fish. I guess it is time to get that done right? LOL... I do run a five gallon bucket of water from the tap usually two days before doing my water change. I usually treat the water with Amquel+ because I was under the impression it helped with clorine removal. When I use my pump to drain the tank, I drain it into another five gallon bucket. I then use the pump and treated water from the clean water bucket to replace the exact amount of water that I removed. I guess I will need to purchase a gravel vaccume in order to start doing a better job of maintanence. I have quite a few different species of snails, clams, and mussels. I have always figured they would keep the rocks clean, so I never put much thought into extensive cleaning. Can you recommend a good gravel cleaner? Thank you. Kevin > > How the water gets changed is pretty immaterial. You do, however need to > also clean the gravel. The best time to do this task is when you are > changing water, and the best method is to use a gravel vacuum. I don't > know if this is being done by your admission of not wanting to disturb > the habitat. Detritus trapped in the gravel will eventually rot causing > various possible problems with your tank, such as anaerobic areas, the > creation of hydrogen sulfide, and the growth of fungus, etc. > > You also do not mention whether or how you treat the incoming water. You > may well be in the minority with a good private supply of water, but > most of us need to remove chlorine, at least, chloramines and other > substances at the worst. There are many methods that can accomplish > these tasks, inside and outside the tank. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 12:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water changes > > William, > > I usually use as small water pump to remove the water from my tank > during PWC. I figured it would cause less stress of my fish. I also > use the same water pump to slowly put the fresh water back into my > tank. Does this even make a difference? LOL..or am I being too anal > about water changes? > > I try my very best not to disturb their habitat as much as posible. > > Thanks! > > > > > I have only been in this hobby for a little over 55 years (yes 55 > > years) and the more that i get to know about fish the more that I > get > > to know that I don't know about them. I am a firm believer in > doing > > smaller but much more frequent partial water changes which will > cause > > a smaller change in water parameters but also will get rid of > > unwanted and unhealthy things in the water. I belong to a couple > of > > local aquarium clubs and when some of the people come over to look > at > > my fish that cannot believe how fast some of my fish have grown. > Also > > if you do frequent water changes you can even do larger ones > because > > the water quality will not be that different for the tap water > (minus > > the chlorine and chloramine and heavy metals that you should be > > treating for with a water change) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > I agree with you Joe T. > > > > > > The problem lies in that these posts go out to thousands of > members > > who may > > > not read an entire thread and if they simply read the bad advice > > from > > > somebody that is posted in a reputable group, they may take that > > info as > > > reputable so it's a good idea for one or more members to offer > > contradicting > > > advice or opinions when something is posted that may not be the > > best thing. > > > > > > And thanks for mentioning me in the same sentence as Steve > Szabo. > > Much of > > > what I have learned came from reading his replies over the > years. > > > > > > Happy New Year everybody!!! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of joe t > > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:04 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water > changes > > > > > > It doesn't matter to me whether my analogy was very good or not. > > The only > > > point I was trying to make was that you have to do PWCs no > matter > > how good > > > you think your filter system is. > > > > > > I been keeping fish for more years than I care to remember, but > I'm > > not good > > > with the fancy words. I leave that explaining up to Lenny and > Steve > > (Szabo). > > > They're good at it and I agree with almost everything they say. > > > > > > This go around, I think, smacks of some chap we had here a few > > months back. > > > It's making me wonder if he came back with a different name. I > > don't know > > > what this steve is trying to prove with all this nit picking > about > > changing > > > a 1/2 gallon of water as opposed to a gallon, etc. but it sure > > sounds like a > > > lot of nonsense to me. > > > > > > That's all I intend to say on this subject no matter what > replies I > > may get. > > > > > > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release > Date: > > 12/30/2007 > > > 11:27 AM > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25211	From: Kevin	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: PH Control

Guys, I have been having a heck of a time trying to get the PH level of my water to raise. It has been fairly low (around the sixes lately). I check it multiple times a day. And I have been slowly usuing a PH Up solution that I have in my test kit. So far it isn't don't any good. None of the aquarium residents seem to be bothered - no fish loss at all - but it worries me that the PH is so low. Is this something I should worry about? If so, do you guys have any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Kevin

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25212	From: Kevin	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?

Send them to me. I'll give them a home. LOL... I read somewhere that Loaches love to eat snails. Kevin > > Hi. I have a fresh water tank with guppies and mollies. It is being > over run with snails. Does anyone know how to get rid of them? Thanks > Diane >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25213	From: bmp	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks

Hi Helen, I know what you mean about expense. Last night I ordered the lights for my new tank and even with them being on sale and receiving free shipping, they are not cheap. My poor husband, but he doesn't really complain, there is just that 'look' on his face when I tell him how much it will cost. Poor guy, his hobbies are cheaper, haha. Anyway, I have two other planted tanks. One has plain, natural gravel with the grains being the medium size from Petsmart (approx. the size of dried navy or pinto beans, more or less). It does pretty well but I add Flourish tabs (slow-dissolving plant fertilizer tablets) to the substrate to help it. I occasionally dose it with liquid FLourish and Flourish Excel but I'm off schedule with that and don't do it very often now. There I have had great luck with jungle vallisneria, water wisteria, Cryptocoryne wendtii and, of course, Java ferns. And I can't forget that frogbit does great but so does duckweed and that is a problem now. I have 130 watts of light over 37 gallons so that works out to almost 3.5 watts/gallon, for about 11 hours/day. The other one is a 29 gallon with thin bottom and top layers of natural gravel, the smallest kind (about half the size of the other), with approx. 2 inches of regular flourite in between. Those plants are doing great too and there is where I am seeing some success with twisted/corkscrew vallisneria (my favorite). I also grow water wisteria, a nice-sized melon sword, C. wendtii and C. lutens (I think that is it, it is a little shorter than wendtii), Echinodoros tenellius and dwarf sagittaria, plus Java ferns on Malaysian driftwood, frogbit (smaller amount) and the dreaded duckweed. That tank is lit for about the same number of hours, with 65 watts over 29 gallons, a little more than 3 watts/gallon. I don't add Flourish tabs and haven't given it liquid Flourish for months and it does fine. With alternate water changes I prune but that isn't a big job with this tank; the jungle vallisneria in the 37 gallon makes the other tank's pruning more of a job. Sorry if this is excessive detail, I hope it will help to read a bit of how 'real life' tanks can be done. I'm not inclined to having CO2 as that is one more thing to maintain so I'm quite pleased with how I am doing so far without it. I wish you lots of luck and a good start to your new, huge (haha) aquarium. Beverly --- Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > Thank you Beverly for the welcome! :) > Any suggestions from real people actually using > one substrate or another would be greatly > appreciated (as would any other advice -- this is > really new to me, but I appreciate the beauty of a > planted tank so much more than a "regular" tank, > even though it is a good deal more expensive to set > up. We're taking it in stages and I'm learning the > value of patience ;) > > Thanks! > Helen ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25214	From: Ken Sharpe	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control

Kevin, I highly recommend using Wardley's Bullseye 7.0. I have used this with tremendous success for ages. Use this per instructions and it holds the ph in check at 7.0 for a while. Pastor Ken Sharpe Flowing River Fellowship Level Cross, NC --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <lophophoras2002@...> wrote: > > Guys, > > I have been having a heck of a time trying to get the PH level of my > water to raise. It has been fairly low (around the sixes lately). I > check it multiple times a day. And I have been slowly usuing a PH Up > solution that I have in my test kit. So far it isn't don't any good. > > None of the aquarium residents seem to be bothered - no fish loss at > all - but it worries me that the PH is so low. Is this something I > should worry about? If so, do you guys have any suggestions? > > Thanks in advance. > > Kevin >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25215	From: diane none	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?

Ray, i have a 35 gal. tank. I have about 30 guppies, and 4 or 5 mollies, and a placo. which he is about 8 or 9 inches long. Is there room for the clown loaches? Do i find them in most pet stores that carry fish? Thanks Diane Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: Diane, From your further posts, and your description in noting snail eggs within the water column and not above the surface line, I'd have to think these snails are of the smaller varieties, most probably either Pond or Ramshorn Snails. As such, depending on your tank size, its present stocking density and your propensity for adding additional fish with your Guppies and Mollies if these above conditions warrant it -- and your fondness (or lack of) members of the Botia Family, you might want to consider adding a couple of Clown Loaches which will relish these snails and make short work of them. Be advised though, that these Loaches can get upwards of 12" or so, but they grow rather slowly (probably as nearly to many years as it is to reach this 12" size). As they approach getting too large for your tank, you could always trade them back to any cooperative LFS. Since they do prefer the company of conspecifics, they do better in this situation rather than by themselves. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Diane" <diane_20007@...> wrote: > > Hi. I have a fresh water tank with guppies and mollies. It is being > over run with snails. Does anyone know how to get rid of them? Thanks > Diane > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25216	From: bmp	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?

I'm with you Robert, that is why I have what some people would call too many of them in two of my tanks. I do not really want that many and in fact having none would be okay but I don't have the heart to just wipe them all out either. So I try to be tolerant and appreciate what they do and reduce the population only somewhat. Beverly --- Robert <rroobbeerrtt@...> wrote: > Its bad karma to kill so many snails > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 4:48 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] how do i get rid of > snails? > > > There are a number of ways to accomplish this. Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25217	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?

Snails are a natural part of our ecosystem so having a few of them in your tank is no big deal to me. They are actually a good thing as they will help with eating algae, missed food, etc. They are part of natures clean up crew. Having too many means you have too much food for them. They are opportunistic breeders and will only breed excessively if there is lots of food available for them. We need to figure out what you are doing wrong so you can eliminate their food source and then they will quit breeding so much and die off to non-intrusive levels. Tell us more about your tank, stocking, feeding schedule, filter system(s) and maintenance schedule, tank maintenance schedule for PWC's and gravel vacuuming, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ToPaSiO D.V. Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 12:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] how do i get rid of snails? How many snails do you have??? I was wondering something, since I don't know hardly anything about snails, are snails really bad to live with fishes???? Darlene!!! Diane <diane_20007@... <mailto:diane_20007%40yahoo.com> > wrote: Hi. I have a fresh water tank with guppies and mollies. It is being over run with snails. Does anyone know how to get rid of them? Thanks Diane "I count my Blessings" No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25218	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?

What about restaurants that sell lots of escargot? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 1:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] how do i get rid of snails? Its bad karma to kill so many snails ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 4:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] how do i get rid of snails? There are a number of ways to accomplish this. First, the guppies may do a job on the snails if they are not too well fed. Failing that, anchor some lettuce at the bottom of the tank, or on one of the sides overnight and remove, with snails, in the morning. You can squish them against the glass and leave the remains for your fish. I am sure others will chime in with hteir suggestions, as soon as they shake off the hangover from tonight <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Diane Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] how do i get rid of snails? Hi. I have a fresh water tank with guppies and mollies. It is being over run with snails. Does anyone know how to get rid of them? Thanks Diane No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25219	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: first person who like doing water changes

Bare tank bottoms are not a bad thing. You get to see all the stuff that ends up on the bottom, so you have a much better idea of what will be in your substrate when you add it. When you do get around to adding the gravel, rinse it very well to ensure you get any dirt and detritus that may be in the gravel before you add it to your tank. It would be up to you whether you remove the current tank décor prior to adding the gravel. I would probably leave it in and work around it, but you may have to do some moving around of it. Do a partial water change, but do not replace the water until you are done with the substrate addition. You might want to make it a larger water change than normal to give you a lower water level to work with, and the addition of the substrate will raise it anyhow. When you are done, add the fresh water to the tank to your normal level. Find yourself a tank partition. It could be an official tank partition sold in stores or online, or something you rig up yourself. The purpose is to keep your critters confined to one side of the tank while you work in the other. I learned this lesson way back when I was still a youngin' and William T. Innes was still alive and putting out new editions of his book _Exotic Aquarium Fishes_ when I was adding marbles to a tank of goldfish. I managed to conk one of them on the head and killed him. My mom still brings up the story on occasion when she knows there are other fish people present in our company. Once you have one side complete, move the critters to the completed side of the tank, partition them off again, and complete your work. Once you have finished the whole tank, remove the partition, and let the fish explore their recently renovated home. A gravel cleaner is a wider diameter tube connected to a smaller diameter hose. Depending on your flow rate, it will cause the gravel to be lifted into the tube to a certain extent, and remove the detritus that has accumulated since you last did a cleaning. Depending on the size of the tank, I'll do one half to one quarter of the substrate during any particular water change. Amquel was a good product, but since the inventor of Amquel and Kordon split some time ago, the formulation has changed. You might want to consider using Ultimate, formulated by the same fellow and marketed by Hikari USA. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 8:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water changes Thanks Steve! In all honesty I do not have gravel in my tank at the moment. I do have large rock formations and drift wood but no substrate. I have been meaning to add small gravel (have even purchased a bunch) but haven't put any in for fear of disturbing the fish. I guess it is time to get that done right? LOL... I do run a five gallon bucket of water from the tap usually two days before doing my water change. I usually treat the water with Amquel+ because I was under the impression it helped with clorine removal. When I use my pump to drain the tank, I drain it into another five gallon bucket. I then use the pump and treated water from the clean water bucket to replace the exact amount of water that I removed. I guess I will need to purchase a gravel vaccume in order to start doing a better job of maintanence. I have quite a few different species of snails, clams, and mussels. I have always figured they would keep the rocks clean, so I never put much thought into extensive cleaning. Can you recommend a good gravel cleaner? Thank you. Kevin > > How the water gets changed is pretty immaterial. You do, however need to > also clean the gravel. The best time to do this task is when you are > changing water, and the best method is to use a gravel vacuum. I don't > know if this is being done by your admission of not wanting to disturb > the habitat. Detritus trapped in the gravel will eventually rot causing > various possible problems with your tank, such as anaerobic areas, the > creation of hydrogen sulfide, and the growth of fungus, etc. > > You also do not mention whether or how you treat the incoming water. You > may well be in the minority with a good private supply of water, but > most of us need to remove chlorine, at least, chloramines and other > substances at the worst. There are many methods that can accomplish > these tasks, inside and outside the tank. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 12:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water changes > > William, > > I usually use as small water pump to remove the water from my tank > during PWC. I figured it would cause less stress of my fish. I also > use the same water pump to slowly put the fresh water back into my > tank. Does this even make a difference? LOL..or am I being too anal > about water changes? > > I try my very best not to disturb their habitat as much as posible. > > Thanks! > > > > > I have only been in this hobby for a little over 55 years (yes 55 > > years) and the more that i get to know about fish the more that I > get > > to know that I don't know about them. I am a firm believer in > doing > > smaller but much more frequent partial water changes which will > cause > > a smaller change in water parameters but also will get rid of > > unwanted and unhealthy things in the water. I belong to a couple > of > > local aquarium clubs and when some of the people come over to look > at > > my fish that cannot believe how fast some of my fish have grown. > Also > > if you do frequent water changes you can even do larger ones > because > > the water quality will not be that different for the tap water > (minus > > the chlorine and chloramine and heavy metals that you should be > > treating for with a water change) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > I agree with you Joe T. > > > > > > The problem lies in that these posts go out to thousands of > members > > who may > > > not read an entire thread and if they simply read the bad advice > > from > > > somebody that is posted in a reputable group, they may take that > > info as > > > reputable so it's a good idea for one or more members to offer > > contradicting > > > advice or opinions when something is posted that may not be the > > best thing. > > > > > > And thanks for mentioning me in the same sentence as Steve > Szabo. > > Much of > > > what I have learned came from reading his replies over the > years. > > > > > > Happy New Year everybody!!! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of joe t > > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:04 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water > changes > > > > > > It doesn't matter to me whether my analogy was very good or not. > > The only > > > point I was trying to make was that you have to do PWCs no > matter > > how good > > > you think your filter system is. > > > > > > I been keeping fish for more years than I care to remember, but > I'm > > not good > > > with the fancy words. I leave that explaining up to Lenny and > Steve > > (Szabo). > > > They're good at it and I agree with almost everything they say. > > > > > > This go around, I think, smacks of some chap we had here a few > > months back. > > > It's making me wonder if he came back with a different name. I > > don't know > > > what this steve is trying to prove with all this nit picking > about > > changing > > > a 1/2 gallon of water as opposed to a gallon, etc. but it sure > > sounds like a > > > lot of nonsense to me. > > > > > > That's all I intend to say on this subject no matter what > replies I > > may get. > > > > > > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release > Date: > > 12/30/2007 > > > 11:27 AM > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25220	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks

"...After the plants have settled in and the tank has cycled, we'll be adding fish..." Hi Helen, I'm not sure if you picked up the "cycled" term from online study or from your LFS or nursery but in the aquarium world, "cycled" refers to the nitrogen cycle (ammonia > nitrite > nitrate) which happens naturally in all aquariums from the fish putting out ammonia (urine and gill function) and then the good natural nitrifying bacteria that convert the ammonia to nitrates. Nitrates are a good food source for your proposed plants. I just want to nip that in the bud right away so you won't call your tank "cycled" when it's not. Now once you add fish, if you have enough plants to eat up all the ammonia from the fish, then your tank will never cycle... and it won't need to since the plants may handle all of the fish waste. You can read up more about the nitrogen cycle if you go to my blog. I have a page called "A to Z of fish keeping" which starts off with information about the nitrogen cycle and I have links to two different online tutorials which go through the entire process of keeping fish, which are good for beginners and experts alike (to be refreshed as needed). You may not want to put the tank by that big sunny window as natural sunlight will increase the likelihood of algae. Here's some pages of very easy and easy aquarium plants to start off with so you don't have to worry as much about CO2 injection, fertilizers, expensive lighting, etc... and you can also find info about the various substrates for planted tanks. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Pattskyn Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate question - planted tanks Thank you Beverly for the welcome! :) I'm still in the planning stages and can't seem to get past what to put on the bottom of the tank! The more I read, the more confusing it gets. I'm doing a cool water set up, making it easy on myself and planning on buying a collection of plants already put together by the nursery (I'll add to later as I become more confident in how to choose plants -- but starting out with a 150 gallon tank, the initial planting can be an expert's collection.) After the plants have settled in and the tank has cycled, we'll be adding fish (cool water species, obviously -- although the tank does have a heater, which is probably good because in winter especially my house gets a little chilly.) I have a nice sunny front window to put the tank up next to, as well as adding grow lights for the plants, especially in winter when no window in this house gets any light! I haven't checked out the filter system that comes w/ the set up yet (buying used), but will add to as necessary. Any suggestions from real people actually using one substrate or another would be greatly appreciated (as would any other advice -- this is really new to me, but I appreciate the beauty of a planted tank so much more than a "regular" tank, even though it is a good deal more expensive to set up. We're taking it in stages and I'm learning the value of patience ;) Thanks! Helen No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: first person who like doing water changes

Hi Kevin, Depending on the size of your tank, a Python water change system is the thing I would recommend. Of course, if you only have a 10G or 20G tank, then it may not be as helpful, unless you have several tanks. If you only have a single smaller tank (10G to 30G), then a simple $5-$10 gravel vacuum, available at most pet stores, will work fine. I have a recent blog on how to start up a manual gravel vacuum so you don't have to suck on the hose to get it started. If you go with the Python, your water faucet provides the suction and then you would refill the tank using the same hose from the faucet. While it's not a bad thing to let your tap water sit for a day or two, it's not a necessary thing either.. if you want to get out of having the 5G buckets sitting around. You don't need to use an expensive product like Amquel either. A simple dechlor product that treats for chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals would work fine. I use API's Tap Water Conditioner which only treats for those basic things and it's very concentrated so 1ml treats 5G of water. I buy the 16 oz size for under $10.00 online or at my local PetsMart by bringing in their online page. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water changes Thanks Steve! In all honesty I do not have gravel in my tank at the moment. I do have large rock formations and drift wood but no substrate. I have been meaning to add small gravel (have even purchased a bunch) but haven't put any in for fear of disturbing the fish. I guess it is time to get that done right? LOL... I do run a five gallon bucket of water from the tap usually two days before doing my water change. I usually treat the water with Amquel+ because I was under the impression it helped with clorine removal. When I use my pump to drain the tank, I drain it into another five gallon bucket. I then use the pump and treated water from the clean water bucket to replace the exact amount of water that I removed. I guess I will need to purchase a gravel vaccume in order to start doing a better job of maintanence. I have quite a few different species of snails, clams, and mussels. I have always figured they would keep the rocks clean, so I never put much thought into extensive cleaning. Can you recommend a good gravel cleaner? Thank you. Kevin > > How the water gets changed is pretty immaterial. You do, however need to > also clean the gravel. The best time to do this task is when you are > changing water, and the best method is to use a gravel vacuum. I don't > know if this is being done by your admission of not wanting to disturb > the habitat. Detritus trapped in the gravel will eventually rot causing > various possible problems with your tank, such as anaerobic areas, the > creation of hydrogen sulfide, and the growth of fungus, etc. > > You also do not mention whether or how you treat the incoming water. You > may well be in the minority with a good private supply of water, but > most of us need to remove chlorine, at least, chloramines and other > substances at the worst. There are many methods that can accomplish > these tasks, inside and outside the tank. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 12:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water changes > > William, > > I usually use as small water pump to remove the water from my tank > during PWC. I figured it would cause less stress of my fish. I also > use the same water pump to slowly put the fresh water back into my > tank. Does this even make a difference? LOL..or am I being too anal > about water changes? > > I try my very best not to disturb their habitat as much as posible. > > Thanks! > > > > > I have only been in this hobby for a little over 55 years (yes 55 > > years) and the more that i get to know about fish the more that I > get > > to know that I don't know about them. I am a firm believer in > doing > > smaller but much more frequent partial water changes which will > cause > > a smaller change in water parameters but also will get rid of > > unwanted and unhealthy things in the water. I belong to a couple > of > > local aquarium clubs and when some of the people come over to look > at > > my fish that cannot believe how fast some of my fish have grown. > Also > > if you do frequent water changes you can even do larger ones > because > > the water quality will not be that different for the tap water > (minus > > the chlorine and chloramine and heavy metals that you should be > > treating for with a water change) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > I agree with you Joe T. > > > > > > The problem lies in that these posts go out to thousands of > members > > who may > > > not read an entire thread and if they simply read the bad advice > > from > > > somebody that is posted in a reputable group, they may take that > > info as > > > reputable so it's a good idea for one or more members to offer > > contradicting > > > advice or opinions when something is posted that may not be the > > best thing. > > > > > > And thanks for mentioning me in the same sentence as Steve > Szabo. > > Much of > > > what I have learned came from reading his replies over the > years. > > > > > > Happy New Year everybody!!! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > Behalf Of joe t > > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:04 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water > changes > > > > > > It doesn't matter to me whether my analogy was very good or not. > > The only > > > point I was trying to make was that you have to do PWCs no > matter > > how good > > > you think your filter system is. > > > > > > I been keeping fish for more years than I care to remember, but > I'm > > not good > > > with the fancy words. I leave that explaining up to Lenny and > Steve > > (Szabo). > > > They're good at it and I agree with almost everything they say. > > > > > > This go around, I think, smacks of some chap we had here a few > > months back. > > > It's making me wonder if he came back with a different name. I > > don't know > > > what this steve is trying to prove with all this nit picking > about > > changing > > > a 1/2 gallon of water as opposed to a gallon, etc. but it sure > > sounds like a > > > lot of nonsense to me. > > > > > > That's all I intend to say on this subject no matter what > replies I > > may get. > > > > > > > > > joe t > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25222	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control

What is your tap/source water baseline? Go to my blog and I have a recent article on establishing your baseline. Scroll down for the link on the right side and run the baseline tests and give us your test results. Do not fall into the trap of using bottled chemicals to try and adjust pH issues. There are natural ways to do it but first lets find out why you are having them. Depending on your fish species, some fish like ONLY low pH water and other like ONLY high pH water and most others like a pH in the 7's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH Control Guys, I have been having a heck of a time trying to get the PH level of my water to raise. It has been fairly low (around the sixes lately). I check it multiple times a day. And I have been slowly usuing a PH Up solution that I have in my test kit. So far it isn't don't any good. None of the aquarium residents seem to be bothered - no fish loss at all - but it worries me that the PH is so low. Is this something I should worry about? If so, do you guys have any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Kevin No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25223	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control

Pastor Ken, It's best to find out what is going on with the water and figure out natural ways to adjust the pH, if needed, rather than going the bottled chemical route. Most of the time, when someone is asking questions about their pH, it's a perfectly normal and suitable pH level but they simply got bad advice about getting the pH at an exact level when the fish can easily acclimate to a wider range of pH without the need for added chemicals, which are not so good for the fish. If we were to buy and use every bottled solution available, we'd turn our tanks into EPA superfund sites. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sharpe Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 9:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH Control Kevin, I highly recommend using Wardley's Bullseye 7.0. I have used this with tremendous success for ages. Use this per instructions and it holds the ph in check at 7.0 for a while. Pastor Ken Sharpe Flowing River Fellowship Level Cross, NC --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Kevin" <lophophoras2002@...> wrote: > > Guys, > > I have been having a heck of a time trying to get the PH level of my > water to raise. It has been fairly low (around the sixes lately). I > check it multiple times a day. And I have been slowly usuing a PH Up > solution that I have in my test kit. So far it isn't don't any good. > > None of the aquarium residents seem to be bothered - no fish loss at > all - but it worries me that the PH is so low. Is this something I > should worry about? If so, do you guys have any suggestions? > > Thanks in advance. > > Kevin > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25224	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?

Diane, Do not even think about adding more fish to your tank. You are way overstocked already. The pleco needs a 75G minimum sized tank by itself. That is why you are having algae and snail issues. An overstocked tank will cause excess detritus and nitrogenous waste issues which result in algae growing. Then the snails will feed on the algae and start breeding. Then you buy an algae eater, like a pleco, which works fine when they are small but then they start putting out even more waste which causes more nitrogenous waste problems but then you don't have the algae to help suck up the nitrates so you start having water quality issues. My point is, buying a fish to solve a problem is not the solution. First you must solve the problem and only buy a fish that you like and want and fits in your tank setup. Ask your LFS if they will trade in your pleco and give you store credit for future purchases of things you might need. I recently traded in my 10" pleco and go a $25.00 store credit for the big guy. I rescued him from a 10G tank and he spent about two years in my 65G tank growing from 4" to 10" but then he was getting too big for my 65G tank. I had plans for a much larger tank but hurricane Katrina changed my plans which is why I had to rehome the big guy. He's now living in a 200G+ tank where he can finish growing to his full potential of up to 18"+. Some LFS even have programs where they will sell you a juvenile pleco, to help with tank cleaning, with plans on you trading them in every 6-12 months for a new smaller one. This allows them to have a constant supply of BIGGER plecos for people with cichlid tanks or big tanks that want to start off with big fish. For a 35G tank that is already fully stocked with the guppies and mollies, you could probably manage a juvenile pleco but once they get to the 4" to 5" mark, it's time to trade them in so they can get into a proper sized tank so they do not suffer from stunting issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of diane none Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 8:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: how do i get rid of snails? Ray, i have a 35 gal. tank. I have about 30 guppies, and 4 or 5 mollies, and a placo. which he is about 8 or 9 inches long. Is there room for the clown loaches? Do i find them in most pet stores that carry fish? Thanks Diane Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > wrote: Diane, From your further posts, and your description in noting snail eggs within the water column and not above the surface line, I'd have to think these snails are of the smaller varieties, most probably either Pond or Ramshorn Snails. As such, depending on your tank size, its present stocking density and your propensity for adding additional fish with your Guppies and Mollies if these above conditions warrant it -- and your fondness (or lack of) members of the Botia Family, you might want to consider adding a couple of Clown Loaches which will relish these snails and make short work of them. Be advised though, that these Loaches can get upwards of 12" or so, but they grow rather slowly (probably as nearly to many years as it is to reach this 12" size). As they approach getting too large for your tank, you could always trade them back to any cooperative LFS. Since they do prefer the company of conspecifics, they do better in this situation rather than by themselves. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Diane" <diane_20007@...> wrote: > > Hi. I have a fresh water tank with guppies and mollies. It is being > over run with snails. Does anyone know how to get rid of them? Thanks > Diane > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25225	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control

Generally, one is best advised not to mess with pH in an aquarium setting, though there are reams of articles and brochures about this topic, most of which tell one how to do so. Once you attempt this maneuver, you need to continually endeavor to maintain the pH level you believe is correct for your fish. Truth is that most of the published pH information of the water the fish originate in is erroneous. Also, since more and more fish available to hobbyists are "farmed" rather than being wild caught, and are raised in water whose pH may or may not have anything to do with what they experience in the wild, pH is not much of an issue. It was once believed that fish could not exist in water that had a pH of less than 5.5, but _Mikrogeophagus ramirezi_, commonly known as the Blue Ram or just Ram, has been found in waters with a pH of less than 5.0. If you are still concerned about your pH level, first try another test kit. Get one that has an expiration date on the reagents to ensure that the reagents are still good when you use them. The best test kit, for several reasons, that I have used is the AquaTru distributed by Kordon. If the pH still seems to be low, then you can do something about it, if you must. Probably the best solution would be to use dolomite mixed into your substrate. This will gradually increase your pH and help maintain it. The rise in pH should be gradual so that your fish do not suffer pH shock by a rapid change in pH. If the pH keeps rising once you have reached your target, then you will need to remove some of the mixed substrate and replace it with some that has no dolomite in it until you reach a level where the pH is maintained at or near your desired level. For others reading this, increasing pH can be acceptable, if it is really needed, but, under no circumstances, should you attempt to lower your pH. All water has a buffer to maintain pH which is measured by a unit known as alkalinity. This term should not be mistaken for the pH term alkaline (which is really better described by the term base) as they have entirely different meanings. To lower pH, you must "break" this buffer to get the pH down. Once this buffer has been broken, you may have absolutely no control over the level the pH may settle out at and you may suffer from what is termed a pH crash, which may make your water unsuitable for supporting any life at all. This is actually the same problem Kevin seems to be suffering from, but in reverse. However, when raising the pH, the results are never as dramatic as they can be when lowering pH. The best thing to do is to keep fish that are suited to the chemistry of your water. A hard lesson to learn, I know, but one that should be learned. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 8:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH Control Guys, I have been having a heck of a time trying to get the PH level of my water to raise. It has been fairly low (around the sixes lately). I check it multiple times a day. And I have been slowly usuing a PH Up solution that I have in my test kit. So far it isn't don't any good. None of the aquarium residents seem to be bothered - no fish loss at all - but it worries me that the PH is so low. Is this something I should worry about? If so, do you guys have any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Kevin

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25226	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control

I should add, real quick, that pH is ALWAYS lower case p upper case H, even when used to start a sentence. Hence, technically, the subject line is wrong. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 11:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH Control Generally, one is best advised not to mess with pH in an aquarium setting, though there are reams of articles and brochures about this topic, most of which tell one how to do so. Once you attempt this maneuver, you need to continually endeavor to maintain the pH level you believe is correct for your fish. Truth is that most of the published pH information of the water the fish originate in is erroneous. Also, since more and more fish available to hobbyists are "farmed" rather than being wild caught, and are raised in water whose pH may or may not have anything to do with what they experience in the wild, pH is not much of an issue. It was once believed that fish could not exist in water that had a pH of less than 5.5, but _Mikrogeophagus ramirezi_, commonly known as the Blue Ram or just Ram, has been found in waters with a pH of less than 5.0. If you are still concerned about your pH level, first try another test kit. Get one that has an expiration date on the reagents to ensure that the reagents are still good when you use them. The best test kit, for several reasons, that I have used is the AquaTru distributed by Kordon. If the pH still seems to be low, then you can do something about it, if you must. Probably the best solution would be to use dolomite mixed into your substrate. This will gradually increase your pH and help maintain it. The rise in pH should be gradual so that your fish do not suffer pH shock by a rapid change in pH. If the pH keeps rising once you have reached your target, then you will need to remove some of the mixed substrate and replace it with some that has no dolomite in it until you reach a level where the pH is maintained at or near your desired level. For others reading this, increasing pH can be acceptable, if it is really needed, but, under no circumstances, should you attempt to lower your pH. All water has a buffer to maintain pH which is measured by a unit known as alkalinity. This term should not be mistaken for the pH term alkaline (which is really better described by the term base) as they have entirely different meanings. To lower pH, you must "break" this buffer to get the pH down. Once this buffer has been broken, you may have absolutely no control over the level the pH may settle out at and you may suffer from what is termed a pH crash, which may make your water unsuitable for supporting any life at all. This is actually the same problem Kevin seems to be suffering from, but in reverse. However, when raising the pH, the results are never as dramatic as they can be when lowering pH. The best thing to do is to keep fish that are suited to the chemistry of your water. A hard lesson to learn, I know, but one that should be learned. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 8:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH Control Guys, I have been having a heck of a time trying to get the PH level of my water to raise. It has been fairly low (around the sixes lately). I check it multiple times a day. And I have been slowly usuing a PH Up solution that I have in my test kit. So far it isn't don't any good. None of the aquarium residents seem to be bothered - no fish loss at all - but it worries me that the PH is so low. Is this something I should worry about? If so, do you guys have any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Kevin Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25227	From: Diane	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: snails.. i had asked about getting rid of them

I have a 35 gal. tank. as i had said in a earlier e-mail, i have about 30 guppies, about 5 or 6 mollies, a pluco,about 8 inches long, and i think the other is called a banjo pluco. I feed my fish in the morning, a little tropical flakes, and 2 algee dics, i leave the light on all day (as told by the pet store). At night i feed them same amout again, then turn the light off until morning. I never completely change the water, i will take about 5 gals. out once a month and clean the gravels with the hose in the draining process. every couple months i will take the decorations out of the tank and wash them with hot water. I like plants, so i have alot of artifical plants in my tank and i notice the snails on them alot, so them i take out and rinse off with hot water mote often to try and keep the eggs rinsed off. Beside just simply catching snails and trying to keep down the population that way, i wasnt sure what else to do. I plan to try the lettuce though and getting clown loaches. Thanks for all your help. Diane

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25228	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: snails.. i had asked about getting rid of them

Hi Diane, Snails usually come in from live plants unless you put them in yourself. Snails are a plus if you ask me and at one time I had babies to watch. They help clean the tank walls and take up little room. I don't get people having to remove them all the time- they want to live too. Eventually, they will die off I have found. I do not have any 10 year old snails in my tanks. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Diane wrote: > > I have a 35 gal. tank. as i had said in a earlier e-mail, i have about > 30 guppies, about 5 or 6 mollies, a pluco,about 8 inches long, and i > think the other is called a banjo pluco. I feed my fish in the > morning, a little tropical flakes, and 2 algee dics, i leave the light > on all day (as told by the pet store). At night i feed them same amout > again, then turn the light off until morning. I never completely > change the water, i will take about 5 gals. out once a month and clean > the gravels with the hose in the draining process. every couple months > i will take the decorations out of the tank and wash them with hot > water. I like plants, so i have alot of artifical plants in my tank > and i notice the snails on them alot, so them i take out and rinse off > with hot water mote often to try and keep the eggs rinsed off. Beside > just simply catching snails and trying to keep down the population that > way, i wasnt sure what else to do. I plan to try the lettuce though > and getting clown loaches. Thanks for all your help. Diane > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25229	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: snails.. i had asked about getting rid of them

OK.. you should have gotten my earlier reply by now about your tank being overstocked. DO NOT get clown loaches. Use the lettuce and manual removal to get rid of your snails. You are also not doing enough PWC's. 5G once a month is not nearly enough PWC's for your tank considering it's overstocked status. In fact, 5G once a month wouldn't be enough even if you weren't overstocked. You should be doing at least 25% a week or maybe twice a week, depending on your water quality test results. 25% of a 35G would be close to 10G so 10G a week or two 5G changes a week would be the bare minimum that I would do in your current situation. If you rehome the pleco, then you could get it down to weekly 5G to 10G PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diane Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 10:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] snails.. i had asked about getting rid of them I have a 35 gal. tank. as i had said in a earlier e-mail, i have about 30 guppies, about 5 or 6 mollies, a pluco,about 8 inches long, and i think the other is called a banjo pluco. I feed my fish in the morning, a little tropical flakes, and 2 algee dics, i leave the light on all day (as told by the pet store). At night i feed them same amout again, then turn the light off until morning. I never completely change the water, i will take about 5 gals. out once a month and clean the gravels with the hose in the draining process. every couple months i will take the decorations out of the tank and wash them with hot water. I like plants, so i have alot of artifical plants in my tank and i notice the snails on them alot, so them i take out and rinse off with hot water mote often to try and keep the eggs rinsed off. Beside just simply catching snails and trying to keep down the population that way, i wasnt sure what else to do. I plan to try the lettuce though and getting clown loaches. Thanks for all your help. Diane No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25230	From: William	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks

After the plants have settled in and the tank has cycled, we'll be adding fish (cool water species, obviously A tank cannot cycle unless there is a source of ammonia for the bacteria to live on and without fish there will not be a source unless you add it from some other means. I have a nice sunny front window to put the tank up next to, as well as adding grow lights for the plants That is not a good place to put a tank because in the summer when the sun does shine in it will give enough light so that algae will have a chance to take over the tan and also the temp difference could change the temp of the tank so that the fish will become stressed and with stress the resistance to diseases will be lowered. Granted a large tank like you have may not be affected too much there is always the possibility that trouble could happen. although the tank does have a heater, which is probably good because in winter especially my house gets a little chilly.) It would be best to have two or more heaters so that if one goes out (does not heat) then the other(s) will keep the tank from going down too fast or if one heater sticks on then it will not be able give you broiled fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > Thank you Beverly for the welcome! :) > > I'm still in the planning stages and can't seem to get past what to put on the bottom of the tank! The more I read, the more confusing it gets. I'm doing a cool water set up, making it easy on myself and planning on buying a collection of plants already put together by the nursery (I'll add to later as I become more confident in how to choose plants -- but starting out with a 150 gallon tank, the initial planting can be an expert's collection.) After the plants have settled in and the tank has cycled, we'll be adding fish (cool water species, obviously -- although the tank does have a heater, which is probably good because in winter especially my house gets a little chilly.) I have a nice sunny front window to put the tank up next to, as well as adding grow lights for the plants, especially in winter when no window in this house gets any light! I haven't checked out the filter system that comes w/ the set up yet (buying used), but will add to as necessary. > > Any suggestions from real people actually using one substrate or another would be greatly appreciated (as would any other advice -- this is really new to me, but I appreciate the beauty of a planted tank so much more than a "regular" tank, even though it is a good deal more expensive to set up. We're taking it in stages and I'm learning the value of patience ;) > > Thanks! > Helen > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25231	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?

Diane, Okay -- this info tells me a bit more about your situation, and is helpful. With a Pleco of this size, in addition to your other fish, you are overstocked now, or at least maxed out. With this present bioload, you just have no more room in your 35 gallon tank to be able to add any Clown Loaches. I would gather also, that the Guppies are most probably of mixed sexes and not all of the smaller sex (males). As for the Pleco, while I'm assuming that he was probably bought at a nominal price along with your other "regularly priced" community fish, I am also then assuming that this is a common Pleco (Hypostomus plecostomus, H. punctatus, Liposarcus multiradiatus) which will easily get to well over 12", usually averaging about 18" (and occassionally up to 22"). While they can reach 24", this will not happen in your tank, but now being made aware of his potential size, you may want to re-think any previous plans about keeping him. With "thinning the herd" of Guppies a bit, and keeping tabs on their inevitable multiplication, you may be able to add a couple Clown Loaches after trading in the Pleco, barring any further bioload increase. Aside from that, you may want to resort to the old trick of placing a piece of lettuce in the tank overnight for the snails to gather on, to make it easier for you to dispose of them -- which often, but not always works successfully. One caveat here is that the Pleco may take a liking to the lettuce as a new found food. With a population explosion of snails such as you're having, there is usually some element that causes such a situation to arise. Off-hand I might conclude that there is an excess of food in their tank, but unless you're seriously overfeeding, the Pleco's appetite should preclude that. Snails are not all that bad -- to the contrary -- they help maintain a cleaner aquarium and can be desireable in some cases, provided they don't overpopulate. There are products (additives) on the market to rid you of snails, some of which work, but I do not like using them, nor would I like to recommend them. Some contain copper, a metal poisonous to all life forms depending on the concentration, but even when used in smaller amounts this metal can have an adverse effect on fishes' well being when used in large enough concentrations to kill mollusks, even though in lower doses its quite effective and safe in treating certain diseases. After outlining your situation, I would first try the lettuce a number of sequential nights in hopes this will gather most of the snails, before the Pleco discovers it as food. You will need to use a fresh lettuce leaf each time, rather than allow the same leaf to rot in your tank over time, and remove these pieces regularly. You still may consider the other control of using Clown Loaches, often found in many LFS's, if you can establish and maintain a proper bioload. This WILL entail removal of the Pleco. Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, diane none <diane_20007@...> wrote: > > Ray, i have a 35 gal. tank. I have about 30 guppies, and 4 or 5 mollies, and a placo. which he is about 8 or 9 inches long. Is there room for the clown loaches? Do i find them in most pet stores that carry fish? Thanks Diane > > Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: Diane, From your further posts, and your description in noting snail > eggs within the water column and not above the surface line, I'd have > to think these snails are of the smaller varieties, most probably > either Pond or Ramshorn Snails. As such, depending on your tank size, > its present stocking density and your propensity for adding additional > fish with your Guppies and Mollies if these above conditions warrant > it -- and your fondness (or lack of) members of the Botia Family, you > might want to consider adding a couple of Clown Loaches which will > relish these snails and make short work of them. Be advised though, > that these Loaches can get upwards of 12" or so, but they grow rather > slowly (probably as nearly to many years as it is to reach this 12" > size). As they approach getting too large for your tank, you could > always trade them back to any cooperative LFS. Since they do prefer > the company of conspecifics, they do better in this situation rather > than by themselves. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Diane" <diane_20007@> wrote: > > > > Hi. I have a fresh water tank with guppies and mollies. It is being > > over run with snails. Does anyone know how to get rid of them? > Thanks > > Diane > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25232	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: snails.. i had asked about getting rid of them

"The other?" It appears you are now saying you have two Pleco's, one 8" - 9" one and Banjo Pleco(?), or some other catfish. This tank is getting even more crowded than it was before. Would not be a good idea to add any more at this stage of the game. It would seem best to go with the lettuce method of removing the excess snails, unless you seriously lighten the bioload if you're still considering adding Loaches. In reading over your present post, its obvious that you are not keeping up with the aquarium maintenance as needed, but then I see where some of the other guys have already pointed this out. Changing out 5 gallons of water once a month from a 35 gallon tank is not nearly doing enough partial water changes for proper maintenance, nor is cleaning the gravel every couple of months. Proper maintenance entails changing out at least 10% of the water weekly, possibly up to 25% or more (33%?), depending on the test results of your water parameters, which you should be doing to enable you to see what portion of water changing will be most effective to keep up with the removal of your nitrates. Best results are had when your gravel is vacuumed at a rate of 50% of the area every week or so, as needed, alternating between sides of the tank each session. Since you have only artificial plants, there's no need to have the light on all day and into the evening. It sounds as if the lights may be on about 12 hours, but I'm only going by trying to interprete your description. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Diane" <diane_20007@...> wrote: > > I have a 35 gal. tank. as i had said in a earlier e-mail, i have about > 30 guppies, about 5 or 6 mollies, a pluco,about 8 inches long, and i > think the other is called a banjo pluco. I feed my fish in the > morning, a little tropical flakes, and 2 algee dics, i leave the light > on all day (as told by the pet store). At night i feed them same amout > again, then turn the light off until morning. I never completely > change the water, i will take about 5 gals. out once a month and clean > the gravels with the hose in the draining process. every couple months > i will take the decorations out of the tank and wash them with hot > water. I like plants, so i have alot of artifical plants in my tank > and i notice the snails on them alot, so them i take out and rinse off > with hot water mote often to try and keep the eggs rinsed off. Beside > just simply catching snails and trying to keep down the population that > way, i wasnt sure what else to do. I plan to try the lettuce though > and getting clown loaches. Thanks for all your help. Diane >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25233	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks

I have been doing some reading on fish-less cycling... something about buying fish expecting them to die bothers me... I don't want to kill anything unnecessarily and if it lives, then what? (I didn't actually do this when we got my daughter a 20 gallon tank for her birthday a few years ago and her fish did all right -- in my own childhood I had bettas and didn't know about such a thing as cycling, so naturally, I didn't do it.) Anyway - I definitely didn't mean to use the wrong terms :) I just thought it was called cycling whether it was done w/ fish or w/o. ~Helen --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25234	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks

Thanks again, Beverly! Not at all too much information... hearing which plants you've had that have done well under which conditions helps. Yeah, my husband just kinda shakes his head at me too ;) As for the comment from another about heater/s... I'm just taking w/ comes w/ the tank, taking a look at it when it gets here and assessing the situation. For all I know it doesn't even work... will have to see. For the price, I'm not complaining. Tank, stand and hood were all I was looking for - will very probably get new filters even though tank comes w/ -- unless I'm really lucky and they're really good... but I'm looking at fish that produce bunches of amonia, so, I'm not really counting on NOT having get new filters. Unfortunately (or not, IMHO) the spot in front of my window is the only spot in this room for a six foot tank, so in the front window it will go. It's a Western exposure, evening summer sun is glorious - winter not so much so, but nice ambient light. I did the battle of the algae in my pond... it didn't matter how much water lettuce I put in, it was never shaded enough, so yeah, been there... will cope w/ it as it comes. We had algae in my daughter's tank like crazy just from a regular for illumination only light bulb. I got a plecco. The fish killed and ate it. I wouldn't necessarily accuse the fish, but it happened twice. Fish now lives alone (rainbow shark.) The last time we bought him a plant to much on, we brought home a few snails as well - they've survived and cleaned up the tank quite nicely - I'm just not sure about snails with bigger fish. They might end up looking like food ;) Thank you again for the advice - filing it all away for reference. We're picking up the tank on Sunday and I'll know for sure what I really need then. Helen --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25235	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control

HI Lenny, I am on the same page as you. As I mentioned in a recent post, when I used to try and adjust my pH I used to kill a lot of fish. Now if I need a higher pH I use crushed coral in the tank or filter. If I think I need lower pH some driftwood or peat moss usually does the trick. Other wise the other 20 tanks of fish just get acclimated to my tapwater. Happy New year. Mike It's best to find out what is going on with the water and figure out natural ays to adjust the pH, if needed, rather than going the bottled chemical oute. Most of the time, when someone is asking questions about their pH, it's a erfectly normal and suitable pH level but they simply got bad advice about etting the pH at an exact level when the fish can easily acclimate to a ider range of pH without the need for added chemicals, which are not so ood for the fish. If we were to buy and use every bottled solution vailable, we'd turn our tanks into EPA superfund sites. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 8:36 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: PH Control Pastor Ken, It's best to find out what is going on with the water and figure out natural ays to adjust the pH, if needed, rather than going the bottled chemical oute. Most of the time, when someone is asking questions about their pH, it's a erfectly normal and suitable pH level but they simply got bad advice about etting the pH at an exact level when the fish can easily acclimate to a ider range of pH without the need for added chemicals, which are not so ood for the fish. If we were to buy and use every bottled solution vailable, we'd turn our tanks into EPA superfund sites. -----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On ehalf Of Ken Sharpe ent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 9:35 AM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ubject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH Control Kevin, highly recommend using Wardley's Bullseye 7.0. I have used this with remendous success for ages. Use this per instructions and it holds the ph n check at 7.0 for a while. Pastor Ken Sharpe lowing River Fellowship evel Cross, NC --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Kevin" <lophophoras2002@...> rote: Guys, I have been having a heck of a time trying to get the PH level of my water to raise. It has been fairly low (around the sixes lately). I check it multiple times a day. And I have been slowly usuing a PH Up solution that I have in my test kit. So far it isn't don't any good. None of the aquarium residents seem to be bothered - no fish loss at all - but it worries me that the PH is so low. Is this something I should worry about? If so, do you guys have any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Kevin o virus found in this outgoing message. hecked by AVG Free Edition. ersion: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 1:27 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. ahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25236	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks

One thing you can do, if you really need to place the tank in a window is to apply a background to the tank prior to placement. I'd suggest black facing into the tank, and a light color (to help reflect sunlight and heat facing the window. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Pattskyn Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate question - planted tanks Thanks again, Beverly! Not at all too much information... hearing which plants you've had that have done well under which conditions helps. Yeah, my husband just kinda shakes his head at me too ;) As for the comment from another about heater/s... I'm just taking w/ comes w/ the tank, taking a look at it when it gets here and assessing the situation. For all I know it doesn't even work... will have to see. For the price, I'm not complaining. Tank, stand and hood were all I was looking for - will very probably get new filters even though tank comes w/ -- unless I'm really lucky and they're really good... but I'm looking at fish that produce bunches of amonia, so, I'm not really counting on NOT having get new filters. Unfortunately (or not, IMHO) the spot in front of my window is the only spot in this room for a six foot tank, so in the front window it will go. It's a Western exposure, evening summer sun is glorious - winter not so much so, but nice ambient light. I did the battle of the algae in my pond... it didn't matter how much water lettuce I put in, it was never shaded enough, so yeah, been there... will cope w/ it as it comes. We had algae in my daughter's tank like crazy just from a regular for illumination only light bulb. I got a plecco. The fish killed and ate it. I wouldn't necessarily accuse the fish, but it happened twice. Fish now lives alone (rainbow shark.) The last time we bought him a plant to much on, we brought home a few snails as well - they've survived and cleaned up the tank quite nicely - I'm just not sure about snails with bigger fish. They might end up looking like food ;) Thank you again for the advice - filing it all away for reference. We're picking up the tank on Sunday and I'll know for sure what I really need then. Helen --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25237	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks

Good idea -- and one I wouldn't have ever come up w/ on my own ... thanks! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > One thing you can do, if you really need to place the tank in a window is to apply a background to the tank prior to placement. I'd suggest black facing into the tank, and a light color (to help reflect sunlight and heat facing the window. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Pattskyn > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate question - planted tanks > > Thanks again, Beverly! Not at all too much information... hearing which plants you've had that have done well under which conditions helps. Yeah, my husband just kinda shakes his head at me too ;) > > As for the comment from another about heater/s... I'm just taking w/ comes w/ the tank, taking a look at it when it gets here and assessing the situation. For all I know it doesn't even work... will have to see. For the price, I'm not complaining. Tank, stand and hood were all I was looking for - will very probably get new filters even though tank comes w/ -- unless I'm really lucky and they're really good... but I'm looking at fish that produce bunches of amonia, so, I'm not really counting on NOT having get new filters. > > Unfortunately (or not, IMHO) the spot in front of my window is the only spot in this room for a six foot tank, so in the front window it will go. It's a Western exposure, evening summer sun is glorious - winter not so much so, but nice ambient light. I did the battle of the algae in my pond... it didn't matter how much water lettuce I put in, it was never shaded enough, so yeah, been there... will cope w/ it as it comes. We had algae in my daughter's tank like crazy just from a regular for illumination only light bulb. I got a plecco. The fish killed and ate it. I wouldn't necessarily accuse the fish, but it happened twice. Fish now lives alone (rainbow shark.) The last time we bought him a plant to much on, we brought home a few snails as well - they've survived and cleaned up the tank quite nicely - I'm just not sure about snails with bigger fish. They might end up looking like food ;) > > Thank you again for the advice - filing it all away for reference. We're picking up the tank on Sunday and I'll know for sure what I really need then. > > Helen > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25238	From: William	Date: 1/1/2008
Subject: Re: how do i get rid of snails?

If the pleco eats the lettuce then get a narrow necked bottle that you can put the lettuce in and that the pleco cannot fit in. You will take the bottle out and dispose of the snails and replace the lettuce with a fresh piece and put it back into the tank. do this each day and also cut down on feeding your fish which is also feeding your snails so that they are reproducing faster than you need. Make sure to syphon the gravel so that you will get rid of uneaten food that the snail eat but make sure to do the water changes with gravel vacuuming on a weekly of twice a week schedule so that you can control the snails better. You co not want to kill them all off at once or you will have pollution from dead snails. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There are a number of ways to accomplish this. First, the guppies may do > a job on the snails if they are not too well fed. Failing that, anchor > some lettuce at the bottom of the tank, or on one of the sides overnight > and remove, with snails, in the morning. You can squish them against the > glass and leave the remains for your fish. I am sure others will chime > in with hteir suggestions, as soon as they shake off the hangover from > tonight <g>. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Diane > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 11:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] how do i get rid of snails? > > Hi. I have a fresh water tank with guppies and mollies. It is being > over run with snails. Does anyone know how to get rid of them? Thanks > Diane >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25239	From: Kevin	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control

Thanks Ken! I'll have a look at my local Petco. I apppreciate the help. Kevin <kensharpess454@...> wrote: > > Kevin, > I highly recommend using Wardley's Bullseye 7.0. I have used this with > tremendous success for ages. Use this per instructions and it holds > the ph in check at 7.0 for a while. > > Pastor Ken Sharpe > Flowing River Fellowship > Level Cross, NC > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <lophophoras2002@> > wrote: > > > > Guys, > > > > I have been having a heck of a time trying to get the PH level of my > > water to raise. It has been fairly low (around the sixes lately). I > > check it multiple times a day. And I have been slowly usuing a PH Up > > solution that I have in my test kit. So far it isn't don't any good. > > > > None of the aquarium residents seem to be bothered - no fish loss at > > all - but it worries me that the PH is so low. Is this something I > > should worry about? If so, do you guys have any suggestions? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Kevin > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25240	From: Kevin	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: first person who like doing water changes

Steve, Thanks for taking time to answer my questions and offer advice. Even though I have had tanks before, I am taking it much more seriously now. And I am a complete amateur. So any advice from any of you guys is welcome and greatly appreciated. I am pretty sure I can come up with a 'gravel vacuum', some type of siphon maybe. This should be a fairly simple task, especially since I have not added any smaller stones yet. I noticed partition nets at Petco the other day, that should help keep the fish to one side of the tank while I work on the other. At the moment I am working with a 50 gallon tank. But would like to move up in size once I am more comfortable with the hobby. I think it is always best to start out on a smaller scale and move up once the comfort level and knowledge grows. But I can imagine that a nice 100 or 200 gallon tank would go well in my home office. I can dream at least. LOL... It's funny though. I am a cacti collector and enthusiast (have been working with them for over 15 years). I have a little over 200 in my collection. And now I am adding aquatics to my interest. Two completely opposite interest but they both offer equal amazement. Thanks again for your time and your advice. Kevin > > Bare tank bottoms are not a bad thing. You get to see all the stuff that ends up on the bottom, so you have a much better idea of what will be in your substrate when you add it. > > When you do get around to adding the gravel, rinse it very well to ensure you get any dirt and detritus that may be in the gravel before you add it to your tank. It would be up to you whether you remove the current tank décor prior to adding the gravel. I would probably leave it in and work around it, but you may have to do some moving around of it. > > Do a partial water change, but do not replace the water until you are done with the substrate addition. You might want to make it a larger water change than normal to give you a lower water level to work with, and the addition of the substrate will raise it anyhow. When you are done, add the fresh water to the tank to your normal level. > > Find yourself a tank partition. It could be an official tank partition sold in stores or online, or something you rig up yourself. The purpose is to keep your critters confined to one side of the tank while you work in the other. I learned this lesson way back when I was still a youngin' and William T. Innes was still alive and putting out new editions of his book _Exotic Aquarium Fishes_ when I was adding marbles to a tank of goldfish. I managed to conk one of them on the head and killed him. My mom still brings up the story on occasion when she knows there are other fish people present in our company. > > Once you have one side complete, move the critters to the completed side of the tank, partition them off again, and complete your work. Once you have finished the whole tank, remove the partition, and let the fish explore their recently renovated home. > > A gravel cleaner is a wider diameter tube connected to a smaller diameter hose. Depending on your flow rate, it will cause the gravel to be lifted into the tube to a certain extent, and remove the detritus that has accumulated since you last did a cleaning. Depending on the size of the tank, I'll do one half to one quarter of the substrate during any particular water change. > > Amquel was a good product, but since the inventor of Amquel and Kordon split some time ago, the formulation has changed. You might want to consider using Ultimate, formulated by the same fellow and marketed by Hikari USA. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 8:37 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water changes > > Thanks Steve! > > In all honesty I do not have gravel in my tank at the moment. I do > have large rock formations and drift wood but no substrate. I have > been meaning to add small gravel (have even purchased a bunch) but > haven't put any in for fear of disturbing the fish. I guess it is > time to get that done right? LOL... > > I do run a five gallon bucket of water from the tap usually two days > before doing my water change. I usually treat the water with Amquel+ > because I was under the impression it helped with clorine removal. > When I use my pump to drain the tank, I drain it into another five > gallon bucket. I then use the pump and treated water from the clean > water bucket to replace the exact amount of water that I removed. > > I guess I will need to purchase a gravel vaccume in order to start > doing a better job of maintanence. I have quite a few different > species of snails, clams, and mussels. I have always figured they > would keep the rocks clean, so I never put much thought into > extensive cleaning. > > Can you recommend a good gravel cleaner? > > Thank you. > > Kevin > > > > > > How the water gets changed is pretty immaterial. You do, however > need to > > also clean the gravel. The best time to do this task is when you are > > changing water, and the best method is to use a gravel vacuum. I > don't > > know if this is being done by your admission of not wanting to > disturb > > the habitat. Detritus trapped in the gravel will eventually rot > causing > > various possible problems with your tank, such as anaerobic areas, > the > > creation of hydrogen sulfide, and the growth of fungus, etc. > > > > You also do not mention whether or how you treat the incoming > water. You > > may well be in the minority with a good private supply of water, but > > most of us need to remove chlorine, at least, chloramines and other > > substances at the worst. There are many methods that can accomplish > > these tasks, inside and outside the tank. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Kevin > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 12:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water changes > > > > William, > > > > I usually use as small water pump to remove the water from my tank > > during PWC. I figured it would cause less stress of my fish. I also > > use the same water pump to slowly put the fresh water back into my > > tank. Does this even make a difference? LOL..or am I being too anal > > about water changes? > > > > I try my very best not to disturb their habitat as much as posible. > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > I have only been in this hobby for a little over 55 years (yes 55 > > > years) and the more that i get to know about fish the more that I > > get > > > to know that I don't know about them. I am a firm believer in > > doing > > > smaller but much more frequent partial water changes which will > > cause > > > a smaller change in water parameters but also will get rid of > > > unwanted and unhealthy things in the water. I belong to a couple > > of > > > local aquarium clubs and when some of the people come over to > look > > at > > > my fish that cannot believe how fast some of my fish have grown. > > Also > > > if you do frequent water changes you can even do larger ones > > because > > > the water quality will not be that different for the tap water > > (minus > > > the chlorine and chloramine and heavy metals that you should be > > > treating for with a water change) > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I agree with you Joe T. > > > > > > > > The problem lies in that these posts go out to thousands of > > members > > > who may > > > > not read an entire thread and if they simply read the bad > advice > > > from > > > > somebody that is posted in a reputable group, they may take > that > > > info as > > > > reputable so it's a good idea for one or more members to offer > > > contradicting > > > > advice or opinions when something is posted that may not be the > > > best thing. > > > > > > > > And thanks for mentioning me in the same sentence as Steve > > Szabo. > > > Much of > > > > what I have learned came from reading his replies over the > > years. > > > > > > > > Happy New Year everybody!!! > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of joe t > > > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:04 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water > > changes > > > > > > > > It doesn't matter to me whether my analogy was very good or > not. > > > The only > > > > point I was trying to make was that you have to do PWCs no > > matter > > > how good > > > > you think your filter system is. > > > > > > > > I been keeping fish for more years than I care to remember, but > > I'm > > > not good > > > > with the fancy words. I leave that explaining up to Lenny and > > Steve > > > (Szabo). > > > > They're good at it and I agree with almost everything they say. > > > > > > > > This go around, I think, smacks of some chap we had here a few > > > months back. > > > > It's making me wonder if he came back with a different name. I > > > don't know > > > > what this steve is trying to prove with all this nit picking > > about > > > changing > > > > a 1/2 gallon of water as opposed to a gallon, etc. but it sure > > > sounds like a > > > > lot of nonsense to me. > > > > > > > > That's all I intend to say on this subject no matter what > > replies I > > > may get. > > > > > > > > > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release > > Date: > > > 12/30/2007 > > > > 11:27 AM > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25241	From: Kevin	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: first person who like doing water changes

Hello Lenny! Thank you! My tank is just a 50 gallon, but I am looking to get another bigger one soon. LOL...I was planning on trying to siphon with a larger hose but the thought of what may end up in my mouth made me a bit squeamish. I am glad that I found this group. This is a virtual treasure trove of information and you guys are all very helpful. My local pet store (Petco) isn't very helpful at all. You bascially have to put a person in a strangle hold just to get the only shoddy information they think they know about. Not saying all stores are like that, but the one I have to deal with just isn't a very good resource. Good intentions but poor knowledge and most of the time they have very little 'time' to deal with you. I live about five minutes South of Memphis, TN. And I have plans on visiting the caretaker of the Memphis Zoo's aquariums. They are always beautiful and well maintained. It is always so relaxing to visit them. So I am hoping to set up some time with them and get a actual tour of behind the scenes. Thanks again for your advice and help. Kevin > > Hi Kevin, > > Depending on the size of your tank, a Python water change system is the > thing I would recommend. Of course, if you only have a 10G or 20G tank, > then it may not be as helpful, unless you have several tanks. If you only > have a single smaller tank (10G to 30G), then a simple $5-$10 gravel vacuum, > available at most pet stores, will work fine. I have a recent blog on how > to start up a manual gravel vacuum so you don't have to suck on the hose to > get it started. If you go with the Python, your water faucet provides the > suction and then you would refill the tank using the same hose from the > faucet. > > While it's not a bad thing to let your tap water sit for a day or two, it's > not a necessary thing either.. if you want to get out of having the 5G > buckets sitting around. > > You don't need to use an expensive product like Amquel either. A simple > dechlor product that treats for chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals would > work fine. I use API's Tap Water Conditioner which only treats for those > basic things and it's very concentrated so 1ml treats 5G of water. I buy > the 16 oz size for under $10.00 online or at my local PetsMart by bringing > in their online page. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:37 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water changes > > Thanks Steve! > > In all honesty I do not have gravel in my tank at the moment. I do have > large rock formations and drift wood but no substrate. I have been meaning > to add small gravel (have even purchased a bunch) but haven't put any in for > fear of disturbing the fish. I guess it is time to get that done right? > LOL... > > I do run a five gallon bucket of water from the tap usually two days before > doing my water change. I usually treat the water with Amquel+ because I was > under the impression it helped with clorine removal. > When I use my pump to drain the tank, I drain it into another five gallon > bucket. I then use the pump and treated water from the clean water bucket to > replace the exact amount of water that I removed. > > I guess I will need to purchase a gravel vaccume in order to start doing a > better job of maintanence. I have quite a few different species of snails, > clams, and mussels. I have always figured they would keep the rocks clean, > so I never put much thought into extensive cleaning. > > Can you recommend a good gravel cleaner? > > Thank you. > > Kevin > > > > > How the water gets changed is pretty immaterial. You do, however > need to > > also clean the gravel. The best time to do this task is when you are > > changing water, and the best method is to use a gravel vacuum. I > don't > > know if this is being done by your admission of not wanting to > disturb > > the habitat. Detritus trapped in the gravel will eventually rot > causing > > various possible problems with your tank, such as anaerobic areas, > the > > creation of hydrogen sulfide, and the growth of fungus, etc. > > > > You also do not mention whether or how you treat the incoming > water. You > > may well be in the minority with a good private supply of water, but > > most of us need to remove chlorine, at least, chloramines and other > > substances at the worst. There are many methods that can accomplish > > these tasks, inside and outside the tank. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Kevin > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 12:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water changes > > > > William, > > > > I usually use as small water pump to remove the water from my tank > > during PWC. I figured it would cause less stress of my fish. I also > > use the same water pump to slowly put the fresh water back into my > > tank. Does this even make a difference? LOL..or am I being too anal > > about water changes? > > > > I try my very best not to disturb their habitat as much as posible. > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > I have only been in this hobby for a little over 55 years (yes 55 > > > years) and the more that i get to know about fish the more that I > > get > > > to know that I don't know about them. I am a firm believer in > > doing > > > smaller but much more frequent partial water changes which will > > cause > > > a smaller change in water parameters but also will get rid of > > > unwanted and unhealthy things in the water. I belong to a couple > > of > > > local aquarium clubs and when some of the people come over to > look > > at > > > my fish that cannot believe how fast some of my fish have grown. > > Also > > > if you do frequent water changes you can even do larger ones > > because > > > the water quality will not be that different for the tap water > > (minus > > > the chlorine and chloramine and heavy metals that you should be > > > treating for with a water change) > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I agree with you Joe T. > > > > > > > > The problem lies in that these posts go out to thousands of > > members > > > who may > > > > not read an entire thread and if they simply read the bad > advice > > > from > > > > somebody that is posted in a reputable group, they may take > that > > > info as > > > > reputable so it's a good idea for one or more members to offer > > > contradicting > > > > advice or opinions when something is posted that may not be the > > > best thing. > > > > > > > > And thanks for mentioning me in the same sentence as Steve > > Szabo. > > > Much of > > > > what I have learned came from reading his replies over the > > years. > > > > > > > > Happy New Year everybody!!! > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > Behalf Of joe t > > > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:04 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: first person who like doing water > > changes > > > > > > > > It doesn't matter to me whether my analogy was very good or > not. > > > The only > > > > point I was trying to make was that you have to do PWCs no > > matter > > > how good > > > > you think your filter system is. > > > > > > > > I been keeping fish for more years than I care to remember, but > > I'm > > > not good > > > > with the fancy words. I leave that explaining up to Lenny and > > Steve > > > (Szabo). > > > > They're good at it and I agree with almost everything they say. > > > > > > > > This go around, I think, smacks of some chap we had here a few > > > months back. > > > > It's making me wonder if he came back with a different name. I > > > don't know > > > > what this steve is trying to prove with all this nit picking > > about > > > changing > > > > a 1/2 gallon of water as opposed to a gallon, etc. but it sure > > > sounds like a > > > > lot of nonsense to me. > > > > > > > > That's all I intend to say on this subject no matter what > > replies I > > > may get. > > > > > > > > > > > > joe t > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 > 11:27 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25242	From: Kevin	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: PH Control

Thanks Steve. We live and learn. Kevin > I should add, real quick, that pH is ALWAYS lower case p upper case H, even when used to start a sentence. Hence, technically, the subject line is wrong. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 11:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH Control > > Generally, one is best advised not to mess with pH in an aquarium > setting, though there are reams of articles and brochures about this > topic, most of which tell one how to do so. Once you attempt this > maneuver, you need to continually endeavor to maintain the pH level you > believe is correct for your fish. Truth is that most of the published pH > information of the water the fish originate in is erroneous. Also, since > more and more fish available to hobbyists are "farmed" rather than being > wild caught, and are raised in water whose pH may or may not have > anything to do with what they experience in the wild, pH is not much of > an issue. > > It was once believed that fish could not exist in water that had a pH of > less than 5.5, but _Mikrogeophagus ramirezi_, commonly known as the > Blue Ram or just Ram, has been found in waters with a pH of less than > 5.0. > > If you are still concerned about your pH level, first try another test > kit. Get one that has an expiration date on the reagents to ensure that > the reagents are still good when you use them. The best test kit, for > several reasons, that I have used is the AquaTru distributed by Kordon. > If the pH still seems to be low, then you can do something about it, if > you must. Probably the best solution would be to use dolomite mixed into > your substrate. This will gradually increase your pH and help maintain > it. The rise in pH should be gradual so that your fish do not suffer pH > shock by a rapid change in pH. > > If the pH keeps rising once you have reached your target, then you will > need to remove some of the mixed substrate and replace it with some that > has no dolomite in it until you reach a level where the pH is maintained > at or near your desired level. > > For others reading this, increasing pH can be acceptable, if it is > really needed, but, under no circumstances, should you attempt to lower > your pH. All water has a buffer to maintain pH which is measured by a > unit known as alkalinity. This term should not be mistaken for the pH > term alkaline (which is really better described by the term base) as > they have entirely different meanings. To lower pH, you must "break" > this buffer to get the pH down. Once this buffer has been broken, you > may have absolutely no control over the level the pH may settle out at > and you may suffer from what is termed a pH crash, which may make your > water unsuitable for supporting any life at all. This is actually the > same problem Kevin seems to be suffering from, but in reverse. However, > when raising the pH, the results are never as dramatic as they can be > when lowering pH. > > The best thing to do is to keep fish that are suited to the chemistry of > your water. A hard lesson to learn, I know, but one that should be > learned. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 8:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] PH Control > > Guys, > > I have been having a heck of a time trying to get the PH level of my > water to raise. It has been fairly low (around the sixes lately). I > check it multiple times a day. And I have been slowly usuing a PH Up > solution that I have in my test kit. So far it isn't don't any good. > > None of the aquarium residents seem to be bothered - no fish loss at > all - but it worries me that the PH is so low. Is this something I > should worry about? If so, do you guys have any suggestions? > > Thanks in advance. > > Kevin > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25243	From: Kate	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Snails

I figured since we've been talking about snails I might throw in my question. I have an assortment of snails in my 10 g. I haven't minded them at all because they help with cleanup of various aspects of the tank. From what I can tell there are three varieties. You can see them all here. http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7u5B I think one of them has recently decided to attack my dwarf lily. I have found several holes in it's leaves. Nothing has changed in the tank since October when I added a few more Cherry Shrimp. Does anyone know what might prompt snails to all of a sudden start attacking plants? And can anyone tell by the photos which snails might be the culprit? I'd like to pull only those out. Thanks, Kate Ps. If it helps to give a brief synopsis of the tank it is a 10 gallon, planted tank with 3 Harlequin Rasboras, 3 Otocinclus, Cherry Shrimp, CO2 and a Zoo Med canister. PWCs are done at 10% twice a week. Here's a picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiAfHBXYWnRpQO Yes it is badly in need of aquascaping.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25244	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails

Ok, so it's a bit of a jungle but I for one LOVE that look :-) My guess is that because the shrimp are faster getting to the food, maybe with even more of them there isn't as much leftover for the snails and they're having to seek out alternate sources? I see Malaysian Trumpet and Ramshorn, not sure if the other is a baby MTS or a pond snail... MTS don`t usually go for plants so I`d guess the ramshorns or even the fish? Carmen > I figured since we've been talking about snails I might throw in my > question. I have an assortment of snails in my 10 g. I haven't minded > them at all because they help with cleanup of various aspects of the > tank. From what I can tell there are three varieties. You can see them > all here. > http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7u5B > > I think one of them has recently decided to attack my dwarf lily. I > have found several holes in it's leaves. Nothing has changed in the > tank since October when I added a few more Cherry Shrimp. Does anyone > know what might prompt snails to all of a sudden start attacking > plants? And can anyone tell by the photos which snails might be the > culprit? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25245	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: changing flters...

Thanks Lenny. I wasn't able to get the fluval working so I kept what I had in there going and got two more for the new tank. I seeded the new tank with all the gravel from three 5 gallon tanks and some of the ornaments. I also took the filter media from the 5 gallons and the bio wheels and added them to the new tank. I tested the water and it read where the chart said it should. I do like having a master test kit finally. Thanks for the help, as always... Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sat 12/29/2007 6:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] changing flters... Just take the filter media out of the internal filter you are removing and put that filter media in with the filter media of the canister filter. This way, you will be transferring the bulk of any nitrifying bacteria that are currently living on the filter media of the internal filter. If you can't use the filter media from the internal filter in the canister, then you will have to watch out for a mini-cycle and do PWC's as needed. You could also squeeze some of the juice from the dirty filter media into the new filter media in the canister filter and that will seed the new filter. The good thing is that you will at least have one fully cycled filter still running on the tank so you shouldn't have much of a mini-cycle, if any. From all I've read, the nitrifying bacteria are capable of doubling their colony size every 24-48 hours so your mini-cycle shouldn't last more than a day or two. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 10:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] changing flters... Hi Everyone, I was wondering if someone could help me with another question. (I am going on list this time Lenny:) I have recently gotten a fluval 305 canister filter that I would like to use on my 55 gallon established tank. I have two internal filters rated for up to 60 gallons on there and the UGF. I want to take out one of the internal filters and use the fluval. Lenny, this is the tank you helped me with a couple of weeks ago on the mini-cycle it went thru. Can I do this without causing another mini-cycle? Then I want to use the internal one and a penguin 350 on another 55 gallon tank that I will be seeding from my smaller tanks that I'll be breaking down. Does this sound like it will work? Thanks for the help, in advance... Regards, Traci No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1201 - Release Date: 12/28/2007 11:51 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Z`·.¸¸.><((((s>.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸><((((s> ¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..><((((s> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <s((((><.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸<s((((><¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..<s((((><·´Z`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails

Most snails will eat plants when there is no other easier food source available. When the snail colonies grow to a level that no longer is sustained by the uneaten food and algae, then they will need to be thinned out or you will need to actually start feeding the snails to keep them from feeding on your plants. This is why folks are going with shrimp, like your cherry shrimp, to do tank cleanup rather than snails since the shrimp leave the plants alone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails I figured since we've been talking about snails I might throw in my question. I have an assortment of snails in my 10 g. I haven't minded them at all because they help with cleanup of various aspects of the tank. From what I can tell there are three varieties. You can see them all here. http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7u 5B <http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7 u5B> I think one of them has recently decided to attack my dwarf lily. I have found several holes in it's leaves. Nothing has changed in the tank since October when I added a few more Cherry Shrimp. Does anyone know what might prompt snails to all of a sudden start attacking plants? And can anyone tell by the photos which snails might be the culprit? I'd like to pull only those out. Thanks, Kate Ps. If it helps to give a brief synopsis of the tank it is a 10 gallon, planted tank with 3 Harlequin Rasboras, 3 Otocinclus, Cherry Shrimp, CO2 and a Zoo Med canister. PWCs are done at 10% twice a week. Here's a picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiAf HBXYWnRpQO <picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiA fHBXYWnRpQO> Yes it is badly in need of aquascaping. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25247	From: Angela	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails

What kind of shrimp are best for this? I just introduced a few live plants into my tank and the snail I got to clean up the algae is doing a number on my plants :( Angela -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 1/2/2008 2:21:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails Most snails will eat plants when there is no other easier food source available. When the snail colonies grow to a level that no longer is sustained by the uneaten food and algae, then they will need to be thinned out or you will need to actually start feeding the snails to keep them from feeding on your plants. This is why folks are going with shrimp, like your cherry shrimp, to do tank cleanup rather than snails since the shrimp leave the plants alone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails I figured since we've been talking about snails I might throw in my question. I have an assortment of snails in my 10 g. I haven't minded them at all because they help with cleanup of various aspects of the tank. From what I can tell there are three varieties. You can see them all here. http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7u 5B <http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7 u5B> I think one of them has recently decided to attack my dwarf lily. I have found several holes in it's leaves. Nothing has changed in the tank since October when I added a few more Cherry Shrimp. Does anyone know what might prompt snails to all of a sudden start attacking plants? And can anyone tell by the photos which snails might be the culprit? I'd like to pull only those out. Thanks, Kate Ps. If it helps to give a brief synopsis of the tank it is a 10 gallon, planted tank with 3 Harlequin Rasboras, 3 Otocinclus, Cherry Shrimp, CO2 and a Zoo Med canister. PWCs are done at 10% twice a week. Here's a picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiAf HBXYWnRpQO <picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiA fHBXYWnRpQO> Yes it is badly in need of aquascaping. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25248	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails

What kind of fish do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angela Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails What kind of shrimp are best for this? I just introduced a few live plants into my tank and the snail I got to clean up the algae is doing a number on my plants :( Angela -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 1/2/2008 2:21:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails Most snails will eat plants when there is no other easier food source available. When the snail colonies grow to a level that no longer is sustained by the uneaten food and algae, then they will need to be thinned out or you will need to actually start feeding the snails to keep them from feeding on your plants. This is why folks are going with shrimp, like your cherry shrimp, to do tank cleanup rather than snails since the shrimp leave the plants alone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails I figured since we've been talking about snails I might throw in my question. I have an assortment of snails in my 10 g. I haven't minded them at all because they help with cleanup of various aspects of the tank. From what I can tell there are three varieties. You can see them all here. http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7u 5B <http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7 u5B> I think one of them has recently decided to attack my dwarf lily. I have found several holes in it's leaves. Nothing has changed in the tank since October when I added a few more Cherry Shrimp. Does anyone know what might prompt snails to all of a sudden start attacking plants? And can anyone tell by the photos which snails might be the culprit? I'd like to pull only those out. Thanks, Kate Ps. If it helps to give a brief synopsis of the tank it is a 10 gallon, planted tank with 3 Harlequin Rasboras, 3 Otocinclus, Cherry Shrimp, CO2 and a Zoo Med canister. PWCs are done at 10% twice a week. Here's a picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiAf HBXYWnRpQO <picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiA fHBXYWnRpQO> Yes it is badly in need of aquascaping. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25249	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails

That makes sense. I'll just take some of each out. Thanks. "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Most snails will eat plants when there is no other easier food source available. When the snail colonies grow to a level that no longer is sustained by the uneaten food and algae, then they will need to be thinned out or you will need to actually start feeding the snails to keep them from feeding on your plants. This is why folks are going with shrimp, like your cherry shrimp, to do tank cleanup rather than snails since the shrimp leave the plants alone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails I figured since we've been talking about snails I might throw in my question. I have an assortment of snails in my 10 g. I haven't minded them at all because they help with cleanup of various aspects of the tank. From what I can tell there are three varieties. You can see them all here. http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7u 5B u5B> I think one of them has recently decided to attack my dwarf lily. I have found several holes in it's leaves. Nothing has changed in the tank since October when I added a few more Cherry Shrimp. Does anyone know what might prompt snails to all of a sudden start attacking plants? And can anyone tell by the photos which snails might be the culprit? I'd like to pull only those out. Thanks, Kate Ps. If it helps to give a brief synopsis of the tank it is a 10 gallon, planted tank with 3 Harlequin Rasboras, 3 Otocinclus, Cherry Shrimp, CO2 and a Zoo Med canister. PWCs are done at 10% twice a week. Here's a picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiAf HBXYWnRpQO fHBXYWnRpQO> Yes it is badly in need of aquascaping. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25250	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails

I really like Amano and Cherry Shrimp for cleanup. Kate Angela <asolomon1@...> wrote: What kind of shrimp are best for this? I just introduced a few live plants into my tank and the snail I got to clean up the algae is doing a number on my plants :( Angela -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 1/2/2008 2:21:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails Most snails will eat plants when there is no other easier food source available. When the snail colonies grow to a level that no longer is sustained by the uneaten food and algae, then they will need to be thinned out or you will need to actually start feeding the snails to keep them from feeding on your plants. This is why folks are going with shrimp, like your cherry shrimp, to do tank cleanup rather than snails since the shrimp leave the plants alone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails I figured since we've been talking about snails I might throw in my question. I have an assortment of snails in my 10 g. I haven't minded them at all because they help with cleanup of various aspects of the tank. From what I can tell there are three varieties. You can see them all here. http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7u 5B u5B> I think one of them has recently decided to attack my dwarf lily. I have found several holes in it's leaves. Nothing has changed in the tank since October when I added a few more Cherry Shrimp. Does anyone know what might prompt snails to all of a sudden start attacking plants? And can anyone tell by the photos which snails might be the culprit? I'd like to pull only those out. Thanks, Kate Ps. If it helps to give a brief synopsis of the tank it is a 10 gallon, planted tank with 3 Harlequin Rasboras, 3 Otocinclus, Cherry Shrimp, CO2 and a Zoo Med canister. PWCs are done at 10% twice a week. Here's a picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiAf HBXYWnRpQO fHBXYWnRpQO> Yes it is badly in need of aquascaping. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25251	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails

Angela, I asked you in a previous post about what kind of fish do you have but what kind of snail do you have also? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails I really like Amano and Cherry Shrimp for cleanup. Kate Angela <asolomon1@... <mailto:asolomon1%40stny.rr.com> > wrote: What kind of shrimp are best for this? I just introduced a few live plants into my tank and the snail I got to clean up the algae is doing a number on my plants :( Angela -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 1/2/2008 2:21:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails Most snails will eat plants when there is no other easier food source available. When the snail colonies grow to a level that no longer is sustained by the uneaten food and algae, then they will need to be thinned out or you will need to actually start feeding the snails to keep them from feeding on your plants. This is why folks are going with shrimp, like your cherry shrimp, to do tank cleanup rather than snails since the shrimp leave the plants alone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails I figured since we've been talking about snails I might throw in my question. I have an assortment of snails in my 10 g. I haven't minded them at all because they help with cleanup of various aspects of the tank. From what I can tell there are three varieties. You can see them all here. http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7u <http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7 u> 5B u5B> I think one of them has recently decided to attack my dwarf lily. I have found several holes in it's leaves. Nothing has changed in the tank since October when I added a few more Cherry Shrimp. Does anyone know what might prompt snails to all of a sudden start attacking plants? And can anyone tell by the photos which snails might be the culprit? I'd like to pull only those out. Thanks, Kate Ps. If it helps to give a brief synopsis of the tank it is a 10 gallon, planted tank with 3 Harlequin Rasboras, 3 Otocinclus, Cherry Shrimp, CO2 and a Zoo Med canister. PWCs are done at 10% twice a week. Here's a picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiAf <picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiA f> HBXYWnRpQO fHBXYWnRpQO> Yes it is badly in need of aquascaping. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25252	From: Angela	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails

Oh I must have missed that, I've been having trouble getting all the posts. I have 2 flame gourami's, 2 blue gourami's, a silver dollar, a Rafael cat, a cardinal tetra and a black mystery snail. (No one had narcissus around here) he's just a giant black snail. Nothing really remarkable about him to distinguish what he is. Thanks! Angela -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 01/02/08 17:41:38 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails Angela, I asked you in a previous post about what kind of fish do you have but what kind of snail do you have also? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails I really like Amano and Cherry Shrimp for cleanup. Kate Angela <asolomon1@... <mailto:asolomon1%40stny.rr.com> > wrote: What kind of shrimp are best for this? I just introduced a few live plants into my tank and the snail I got to clean up the algae is doing a number on my plants :( Angela -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 1/2/2008 2:21:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails Most snails will eat plants when there is no other easier food source available. When the snail colonies grow to a level that no longer is sustained by the uneaten food and algae, then they will need to be thinned out or you will need to actually start feeding the snails to keep them from feeding on your plants. This is why folks are going with shrimp, like your cherry shrimp, to do tank cleanup rather than snails since the shrimp leave the plants alone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails I figured since we've been talking about snails I might throw in my question. I have an assortment of snails in my 10 g. I haven't minded them at all because they help with cleanup of various aspects of the tank. From what I can tell there are three varieties. You can see them all here. http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7u <http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7 u> 5B u5B> I think one of them has recently decided to attack my dwarf lily. I have found several holes in it's leaves. Nothing has changed in the tank since October when I added a few more Cherry Shrimp. Does anyone know what might prompt snails to all of a sudden start attacking plants? And can anyone tell by the photos which snails might be the culprit? I'd like to pull only those out. Thanks, Kate Ps. If it helps to give a brief synopsis of the tank it is a 10 gallon, planted tank with 3 Harlequin Rasboras, 3 Otocinclus, Cherry Shrimp, CO2 and a Zoo Med canister. PWCs are done at 10% twice a week. Here's a picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiAf <picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiA f> HBXYWnRpQO fHBXYWnRpQO> Yes it is badly in need of aquascaping. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25253	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2008
Subject: Re: Snails

Your blue gourami's sub-species of the three-spot gourami http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Trichogaster%20trichopterus.html and the Striped Raphael catfish http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=166 should both grow to around 6" and will likely see most shrimp as a delicious cocktail appetizer. Try serving them with a nice catsup and horseradish based sauce! That's how I like them. ;-) The black mystery snail might leave your plants alone if you feed him/her other greens that are high in calcium. Here's a list. http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 While at this site, you can check out their very detailed 3D anatomy section to make sure you do have a black mystery snail. I know the site is called Applesnail.net but they have detailed info on most snails. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angela Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails Oh I must have missed that, I've been having trouble getting all the posts. I have 2 flame gourami's, 2 blue gourami's, a silver dollar, a Rafael cat, a cardinal tetra and a black mystery snail. (No one had narcissus around here) he's just a giant black snail. Nothing really remarkable about him to distinguish what he is. Thanks! Angela -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 01/02/08 17:41:38 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails Angela, I asked you in a previous post about what kind of fish do you have but what kind of snail do you have also? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails I really like Amano and Cherry Shrimp for cleanup. Kate Angela <asolomon1@... <mailto:asolomon1%40stny.rr.com> > wrote: What kind of shrimp are best for this? I just introduced a few live plants into my tank and the snail I got to clean up the algae is doing a number on my plants :( Angela -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 1/2/2008 2:21:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails Most snails will eat plants when there is no other easier food source available. When the snail colonies grow to a level that no longer is sustained by the uneaten food and algae, then they will need to be thinned out or you will need to actually start feeding the snails to keep them from feeding on your plants. This is why folks are going with shrimp, like your cherry shrimp, to do tank cleanup rather than snails since the shrimp leave the plants alone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails I figured since we've been talking about snails I might throw in my question. I have an assortment of snails in my 10 g. I haven't minded them at all because they help with cleanup of various aspects of the tank. From what I can tell there are three varieties. You can see them all here. http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7u <http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/4992.jpg?grIDAfHB_DFS7 u> 5B u5B> I think one of them has recently decided to attack my dwarf lily. I have found several holes in it's leaves. Nothing has changed in the tank since October when I added a few more Cherry Shrimp. Does anyone know what might prompt snails to all of a sudden start attacking plants? And can anyone tell by the photos which snails might be the culprit? I'd like to pull only those out. Thanks, Kate Ps. If it helps to give a brief synopsis of the tank it is a 10 gallon, planted tank with 3 Harlequin Rasboras, 3 Otocinclus, Cherry Shrimp, CO2 and a Zoo Med canister. PWCs are done at 10% twice a week. Here's a picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiAf <picture.http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8495157/1d5a/__sr_/3217.jpg?grYiA f> HBXYWnRpQO fHBXYWnRpQO> Yes it is badly in need of aquascaping. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25254	From: Michael	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: live plant clippings

I just take a screw/nail or two (for weight) and twist-tie them to a clipping of my Water Wisteria live plants. Let it sink to the bottom and that's it - it will grow it's own roots and flourish. Water Wisteria is a very ferny looking pretty plant - by the way. Live plants are so-o-o-o-o much prettier than plastic plants - I just switched to live plants recently and I love it - so easy! They eat up the waste under the gravel too! Michael Harvard, IL USA 60033 My Website: http://www.ezinfocenter.com/7893080/EE

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25255	From: Michael	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Does anyone near Harvard, IL 60033 want Water Wisteria LIVE PLANTS?

I have a bunch and they are multiplying fast! Can I trade for some other type that you have? I like a variety of color and type. Does anyone live near Harvard, IL 60033 ? Do you want some Water Wisteria LIVE PLANTS? Michael Harvard, IL 60033 My Website: http://www.ezinfocenter.com/7893080/EE

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25256	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Another question - Lighting

Ok, if I may, I have another question and I'm sure this one is going to totally betray my ignorance.... ;) I think I've got the substrate settled, or at least a plan and I've started in on other things... if I am understanding what I've been reading so far, for a 100 gallon tank, with a mix of low and medium light loving plants, I should want in the neighborhood of 200 watts worth of full spectrum lights. I'm familiar w/ plant lights for starting seeds indoors and didn't expect to feel so out of my depth when it came to plants for my tank, but here I am, in the dark as it were. I've been assuming that when one needs 200 watts, that means that each light is 200 watts, just like in a regular lighting situation -- or does that mean enough lights to total 200 watts?? I read somewhere (and know it's true of non-aquatic plants) that adding extra low wattage lights doesn't replace the need for good, strong (appropriately so) lighting in a tank. If I'm understanding all this correctly, where in the world do I find 200 watt plant lights for a fish tank? I've been looking online just to get an idea of what I was looking for $-wise and only came up with 40 and lower watt bulbs. Am I looking in the wrong places? I haven't seen the tank yet, but I'm expecting that the hood is pretty standard -- I'm not sure how many bulbs it's meant to hold (6 feet long). Anyway, thanks -- again! ~Helen

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25257	From: Angela	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Another question - Lighting

I believe it depends what kind of plants you want. There are easy plants that can live with regular flourescent lights. In my opinion if you want high light plants T5's are probably the way to go. Good luck! -------Original Message------- From: H. B. Pattskyn Date: 01/03/08 07:58:31 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Another question - Lighting Ok, if I may, I have another question and I'm sure this one is going to totally betray my ignorance.... ;) I think I've got the substrate settled, or at least a plan and I've started in on other things... if I am understanding what I've been reading so far, for a 100 gallon tank, with a mix of low and medium light loving plants, I should want in the neighborhood of 200 watts worth of full spectrum lights. I'm familiar w/ plant lights for starting seeds indoors and didn't expect to feel so out of my depth when it came to plants for my tank, but here I am, in the dark as it were. I've been assuming that when one needs 200 watts, that means that each light is 200 watts, just like in a regular lighting situation -- or does that mean enough lights to total 200 watts?? I read somewhere (and know it's true of non-aquatic plants) that adding extra low wattage lights doesn't replace the need for good, strong (appropriately so) lighting in a tank. If I'm understanding all this correctly, where in the world do I find 200 watt plant lights for a fish tank? I've been looking online just to get an idea of what I was looking for $-wise and only came up with 40 and lower watt bulbs. Am I looking in the wrong places? I haven't seen the tank yet, but I'm expecting that the hood is pretty standard -- I'm not sure how many bulbs it's meant to hold (6 feet long). Anyway, thanks -- again! ~Helen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: live plant clippings

I'm not sure how rusting metal would affect the water in a tank so it would probably be a good idea to use a stainless steel screw or nail if you are going to use something like that. I personally use the little flexible lead-like composite strips that come on the plants from some retail stores. Go by a PetsMart or Petco and ask them for some of the little weighted strips that they use on the plant bunches that they sell. They give them to me for free. They are about 1/4" wide and 3" long and are flexible so they can just wrap around the base of a plant or a bunch of clippings so they hold them together and weigh them down at the same time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] live plant clippings I just take a screw/nail or two (for weight) and twist-tie them to a clipping of my Water Wisteria live plants. Let it sink to the bottom and that's it - it will grow it's own roots and flourish. Water Wisteria is a very ferny looking pretty plant - by the way. Live plants are so-o-o-o-o much prettier than plastic plants - I just switched to live plants recently and I love it - so easy! They eat up the waste under the gravel too! Michael Harvard, IL USA 60033 My Website: http://www.ezinfocenter.com/7893080/EE <http://www.ezinfocenter.com/7893080/EE> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25259	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another question - Lighting

You want your total lighting watts to add up to the wattage you are planning. For a 100G tank, if you are planning on 2 wpg (watts per gallon), then you would want a total of 200 watts. This old general rule for lighting is mostly dealing with the "normal" fluorescent tubes so if you are going with some of the new types of lighting, you may not need as many watts for the same amount of "light". While I don't normally refer people to a wikipedia site, this section has a little more info on lighting efficiency to further confuse things. lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighting_efficiency#Lighting_efficiency Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Another question - Lighting Ok, if I may, I have another question and I'm sure this one is going to totally betray my ignorance.... ;) I think I've got the substrate settled, or at least a plan and I've started in on other things... if I am understanding what I've been reading so far, for a 100 gallon tank, with a mix of low and medium light loving plants, I should want in the neighborhood of 200 watts worth of full spectrum lights. I'm familiar w/ plant lights for starting seeds indoors and didn't expect to feel so out of my depth when it came to plants for my tank, but here I am, in the dark as it were. I've been assuming that when one needs 200 watts, that means that each light is 200 watts, just like in a regular lighting situation -- or does that mean enough lights to total 200 watts?? I read somewhere (and know it's true of non-aquatic plants) that adding extra low wattage lights doesn't replace the need for good, strong (appropriately so) lighting in a tank. If I'm understanding all this correctly, where in the world do I find 200 watt plant lights for a fish tank? I've been looking online just to get an idea of what I was looking for $-wise and only came up with 40 and lower watt bulbs. Am I looking in the wrong places? I haven't seen the tank yet, but I'm expecting that the hood is pretty standard -- I'm not sure how many bulbs it's meant to hold (6 feet long). Anyway, thanks -- again! ~Helen No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25260	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks

> > A tank cannot cycle unless there is a source of ammonia for the > bacteria to live on and without fish there will not be a source > unless you add it from some other means. > I read about two methods, one adding amonia directly (clear, plain, nothing added amonia), and another involving "feeding" the empty tank and letting the fish flakes break down; both involve lots of testing and keeping of notes because obviously fish don't get added until the amonia is back down to nothing. Since i have another tank in the house, I've got some "starter" bacteria although it won't be much to begin w/, since the tank is small... although I didn't gather that a whole lot was needed, just something to kick start the process if it was available. I would love to hear from someone who has actually done fishless cycling (I didn't do any kind of intentional cycling w/ my daughter's tank, but it only has one fish in it, which I think is why we didn't have any problems. I grew up around fish tanks, I don't remember any mention of cycling ever being made. It's good to know about though.) My understanding is that neither method mentioned above is harmful to plants. > I have a nice sunny front window to put the tank up next to, as > well as adding grow lights for the plants > That is not a good place to put a tank because in the summer > when the sun does shine in it will give enough light so that algae > will have a chance to take over the tan and also the temp difference > could change the temp of the tank so that the fish will become > stressed and with stress the resistance to diseases will be lowered. > Granted a large tank like you have may not be affected too much there > is always the possibility that trouble could happen. The window area is the only location available for a six foot tank. Not sure how it will affect the tank but we do keep the air on in the summer. It only gets direct sun for an hour or so in the evenings -- Western exposure. But regardless, it's the only option and I'm aware of the importance of keeping an eye on temperature -- and this house is so inconsistant, no matter what the thermostat says, some rooms are cold and some rooms are hot. My personal experience with algea is that it didn't matter what the light conditions were, we had it in spades. My daughter's little tank has a nice population of snails that keep it in check and have managed to survive being eaten by her fish. Since the new tank will also be cool water, so I'll probably stick w/ snails. I like the idea of having more than one heater for emergancies (our furnace went out a few years ago - we were ok bundled up, but my dog has no hair... he wasn't too happy. I couldn't imagine the problems if we'd had a fish tank and no heater.) Will check out set up when it arrives and see what I need to buy. Where I was having problems was w/ the issue of substrate, but I think I feel more confident there. The next question is lighting... I don't see the post I though I put through this morning. If it doesn't come through, the long and the short of it is that if I'm understanding what I'm reading correctly, I need 200 watt bulbs (wide spectrum, I've used plant lights before, just not in an aquarium) and I can't seem to find bulbs w/ the high of wattage. Maybe I'm not understanding what I'm reading because my experience isn't w/ aquatic gardening. I would very greatly appreciate advice on the subject of lighting. (I'll be doing low and medium light plants, 100 gallon tank.) I remember kelvins from science class, but can really only relate that to star temperature, not sure how that relates to plants, although I know the obvious that bright (hot) lights warm up the water, which may become a condern in the summer months even w/ the air conditioner running we'll have to see and adjust the tank conditions accordingly... once I figure out where I'm starting with lighting. Once again, thank you!! Helen > although the tank does have a heater, which is probably good > because in winter especially my house gets a little chilly.) > It would be best to have two or more heaters so that if one goes > out (does not heat) then the other(s) will keep the tank from going > down too fast or if one heater sticks on then it will not be able > give you broiled fish. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn > <thylacine_yawn@> wrote: > > > > Thank you Beverly for the welcome! :) > > > > I'm still in the planning stages and can't seem to get past what > to put on the bottom of the tank! The more I read, the more > confusing it gets. I'm doing a cool water set up, making it easy on > myself and planning on buying a collection of plants already put > together by the nursery (I'll add to later as I become more confident > in how to choose plants -- but starting out with a 150 gallon tank, > the initial planting can be an expert's collection.) After the > plants have settled in and the tank has cycled, we'll be adding fish > (cool water species, obviously -- although the tank does have a > heater, which is probably good because in winter especially my house > gets a little chilly.) I have a nice sunny front window to put the > tank up next to, as well as adding grow lights for the plants, > especially in winter when no window in this house gets any light! I > haven't checked out the filter system that comes w/ the set up yet > (buying used), but will add to as necessary. > > > > Any suggestions from real people actually using one substrate or > another would be greatly appreciated (as would any other advice -- > this is really new to me, but I appreciate the beauty of a planted > tank so much more than a "regular" tank, even though it is a good > deal more expensive to set up. We're taking it in stages and I'm > learning the value of patience ;) > > > > Thanks! > > Helen > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25261	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: live plant clippings

Hey another subject I've been wanting to post on. I've had a hard time with two of my plants. My Ludwigia Ovalis has such fragile stalks that every time I try to stick it in the substrate(ADA Amazonia II powder) it snaps and my Hemianthus Callitrichoides will not stay down. I think I could try the strips you spoke of on the Ludwigia, but I wonder if I could just set one on top of the HC to keep it on the substrate. Any thoughts? Kate "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I'm not sure how rusting metal would affect the water in a tank so it would probably be a good idea to use a stainless steel screw or nail if you are going to use something like that. I personally use the little flexible lead-like composite strips that come on the plants from some retail stores. Go by a PetsMart or Petco and ask them for some of the little weighted strips that they use on the plant bunches that they sell. They give them to me for free. They are about 1/4" wide and 3" long and are flexible so they can just wrap around the base of a plant or a bunch of clippings so they hold them together and weigh them down at the same time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] live plant clippings I just take a screw/nail or two (for weight) and twist-tie them to a clipping of my Water Wisteria live plants. Let it sink to the bottom and that's it - it will grow it's own roots and flourish. Water Wisteria is a very ferny looking pretty plant - by the way. Live plants are so-o-o-o-o much prettier than plastic plants - I just switched to live plants recently and I love it - so easy! They eat up the waste under the gravel too! Michael Harvard, IL USA 60033 My Website: http://www.ezinfocenter.com/7893080/EE No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25262	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another question - Lighting

Thanks! (And sorry for repeating my question, but I didn't see it and have been having issues w/ computer/interet lately, so I thought it might be a hiccup.)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25263	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another question - Lighting

I guess where I'm getting confused is that to me "flourescent" doesn't equal "plant light" -- I had an extended conversation with a science teacher on the subject back when I stared working with potted plants indoors (I'm in one of those places with long cloudy winters.) The simple explination was that flourescents don't put out a full spectrum of light and plants need a full spectrum of light to do well. A lot of planted aquarium articals are referring to plain old normal flourecent lights, though. I know they're cheaper, but at least for potted plants out of water, they're not nearly as good... ultimately, I think I'll have to look at what I have to work with and see what kind of good full spectrum light I can get that will fit the hood... Thanks - and thanks for making me think about water temperatures in summer... it's better to think about it ahead of time and have a plan for *if* it becomes an issue than to be scrambing as my tank climbs to 100 degrees! Just like the furnace, the air conditioner could go out and that would be lower on the priority-list to call a repairman out for... ~Helen --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You want your total lighting watts to add up to the wattage you are > planning. For a 100G tank, if you are planning on 2 wpg (watts per gallon), > then you would want a total of 200 watts. This old general rule for > lighting is mostly dealing with the "normal" fluorescent tubes so if you are > going with some of the new types of lighting, you may not need as many watts > for the same amount of "light". > > While I don't normally refer people to a wikipedia site, this section has a > little more info on lighting efficiency to further confuse things. lol > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighting_efficiency#Lighting_efficiency > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:58 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Another question - Lighting > > Ok, if I may, I have another question and I'm sure this one is going to > totally betray my ignorance.... ;) I think I've got the substrate settled, > or at least a plan and I've started in on other things... if I am > understanding what I've been reading so far, for a 100 gallon tank, with a > mix of low and medium light loving plants, I should want in the neighborhood > of 200 watts worth of full spectrum lights. I'm familiar w/ plant lights for > starting seeds indoors and didn't expect to feel so out of my depth when it > came to plants for my tank, but here I am, in the dark as it were. I've been > assuming that when one needs 200 watts, that means that each light is 200 > watts, just like in a regular lighting situation -- or does that mean enough > lights to total 200 watts?? I read somewhere (and know it's true of > non-aquatic plants) that adding extra low wattage lights doesn't replace the > need for good, strong (appropriately so) lighting in a tank. If I'm > understanding all this correctly, where in the world do I find 200 watt > plant lights for a fish tank? I've been looking online just to get an idea > of what I was looking for $-wise and only came up with 40 and lower watt > bulbs. Am I looking in the wrong places? > > I haven't seen the tank yet, but I'm expecting that the hood is pretty > standard -- I'm not sure how many bulbs it's meant to hold (6 feet long). > > Anyway, thanks -- again! > > ~Helen > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 > 11:29 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25264	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: New fishaholic

Hi,everyone,Happy new year I spent the first hour on here setting up my profile page which IExplorer shut down before I could load it,ahhhhhhh. I am an avid fish owner,predominantly freshwater tropical livebearers,although I have other adopted,inherited,impulsively bought other fish.This is my current collection: 15 gal desktop-"Fluffy"8 yr Black Moor,10",one eye due to Pleco incident,3" Black Moor,2 months old,named me too(Mini me" was eaten by filter)Computer desk 10 Gallon 5 Mollies,black and silver,castle live plants-living room 10 gallon 6 blue dwarf gouramis awaiting new2me 75 gallon planted home-Studio 20 gal. 2 female bettas,1 forlorn male betta,rescued from fishbowl, 6 platies used 2 cycle tank,2 corycats,1 large unidentified terrified catfish rescued from goldfish tank(guest bath) 30 gal 2 overgrown goldfish,rescued,4 splitfin goldfish,rescued from feeder tank,2 multicolored koi,2 large stripe danios-above garden tub,master bath 40 gallon-50+platies,mickey mouse,fire,golden,dwarf,started with 3 females and 1 male,"three amigos"fancy tail male guppies,Bozo,clown loach,"dragon"8"leopard pleco,"mermaid" golden pleco,all living in around under huge double castle w/blue turrets and artificial plant mat-living room 50 gal.-1 spoiled rotten 10"tiger oscar,named oscar and his tank buddy 12"leopard pleco named Felix,who takes no guff off of roommates.-Studio 1 emergency rescue tank,10 gal,cyled with platies I adopt rescue fish before the tidy bowl man can snatch them and buy "like new fish tank"from those that thought they did but decided they didn't Glad to be here,Couldn't get on another yahoo site on fish(voice from above)"waiting for approval" I am an enthusiastic researcher of all things,prodominently squishes at the present time I raised two college grads,one environmental biologist. I taught art to over 200 adult students for 15+yrs,painted murals in over 300 homes/business/schools,was divorced after 24 yrs, had cancer and near fatal spinal collapse,retired to new home,2nd chance at life,2nd chance at love.Very blessed. love2laugh,Sheri

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25265	From: asbo032000	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: hEY

Hey ya i've just joined thought i would introduce myself, i have 2x 4ft tropical tanks and one 3ft coldwater tank, all been up and running for 3/2 years, in one of my 4ft i have, 4 very large angelfish, 2 large comon plecs, 2 red eye tetras and 3 3 spot gormis. In my other 4ft i have momstly livebearves, mollies, guppies,zebra danons,black widows,neons,2 common plecs,glowlight teras, Harlequin and Buenos aires tetra. I have 8 large goldfish in the 3ft.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25266	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Bark background

I recently read an article about using cork bark as a background for planted aquariums,Can any tree bark be used?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25267	From: ialreadytaken4	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: want to have live plants got q's 1st

I HAVE A 75G TANK AND I AM GETTINT TIRED OF THE PLASTIC LOOK HAVE NEVER REALLY TRIED REAL PLANTS. BOT WILL ING TO TRY ANYTHING ONCE.. IN MY TANK I HAVE 5 BLACK PHANTOMS, 5 ZEBRA DANIOS, 6 WHITE SHIRTS, 2 ANGLES,1 DRAGON GOBY AND I DONT KBOW WHAT TO START OFF WITH ANY ADVICE IS WELCOME. I DONT WANT TO START OFF WITH SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO DIE IN A DAY OR TWO.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25268	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: live plant clippings

I'm sure they would work for just laying the strip over a plant stalk to keep it on the surface until it roots. I think it would be much easier than trying to tie a string to the plant or using rubber bands or something like that. The lead-like strips are very heavy for their size and can be easily bent or wrapped around if needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] live plant clippings Hey another subject I've been wanting to post on. I've had a hard time with two of my plants. My Ludwigia Ovalis has such fragile stalks that every time I try to stick it in the substrate(ADA Amazonia II powder) it snaps and my Hemianthus Callitrichoides will not stay down. I think I could try the strips you spoke of on the Ludwigia, but I wonder if I could just set one on top of the HC to keep it on the substrate. Any thoughts? Kate "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: I'm not sure how rusting metal would affect the water in a tank so it would probably be a good idea to use a stainless steel screw or nail if you are going to use something like that. I personally use the little flexible lead-like composite strips that come on the plants from some retail stores. Go by a PetsMart or Petco and ask them for some of the little weighted strips that they use on the plant bunches that they sell. They give them to me for free. They are about 1/4" wide and 3" long and are flexible so they can just wrap around the base of a plant or a bunch of clippings so they hold them together and weigh them down at the same time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Michael Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] live plant clippings I just take a screw/nail or two (for weight) and twist-tie them to a clipping of my Water Wisteria live plants. Let it sink to the bottom and that's it - it will grow it's own roots and flourish. Water Wisteria is a very ferny looking pretty plant - by the way. Live plants are so-o-o-o-o much prettier than plastic plants - I just switched to live plants recently and I love it - so easy! They eat up the waste under the gravel too! Michael Harvard, IL USA 60033 My Website: http://www.ezinfocenter.com/7893080/EE <http://www.ezinfocenter.com/7893080/EE> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25269	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: want to have live plants got q's 1st

What kind/how much lighting on the tank? Carmen AND I DONT KBOW WHAT TO START OFF WITH ANY ADVICE > IS WELCOME. I DONT WANT TO START OFF WITH SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO > DIE IN A DAY OR TWO.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25270	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks

The ammonia method is the best way to go, food is probably not very good as it can fungus before it decomposes enough to add ammonia to the water. You do need to do a lot of testing, just as you would if you cycle with fish. You need to test the ammonia level each day, and then add enough ammonia to bring it back up to the desired level. Once you get a feel for how much to add to do that, it is really no big deal, and ballparking the measurement is acceptable, but may extend the time for your cycle to complete. I never really took extensive notes when I did it, but, if you wish, feel free. Most plants will not be harmed by cycling the tank this way. I say most, though I have never seen one, but there is always the chance that there is one out there that will. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate question - planted tanks > > A tank cannot cycle unless there is a source of ammonia for the > bacteria to live on and without fish there will not be a source > unless you add it from some other means. > I read about two methods, one adding amonia directly (clear, plain, nothing added amonia), and another involving "feeding" the empty tank and letting the fish flakes break down; both involve lots of testing and keeping of notes because obviously fish don't get added until the amonia is back down to nothing. Since i have another tank in the house, I've got some "starter" bacteria although it won't be much to begin w/, since the tank is small... although I didn't gather that a whole lot was needed, just something to kick start the process if it was available. I would love to hear from someone who has actually done fishless cycling (I didn't do any kind of intentional cycling w/ my daughter's tank, but it only has one fish in it, which I think is why we didn't have any problems. I grew up around fish tanks, I don't remember any mention of cycling ever being made. It's good to know about though.) My understanding is that neither method mentioned above is harmful to plants. > I have a nice sunny front window to put the tank up next to, as > well as adding grow lights for the plants > That is not a good place to put a tank because in the summer > when the sun does shine in it will give enough light so that algae > will have a chance to take over the tan and also the temp difference > could change the temp of the tank so that the fish will become > stressed and with stress the resistance to diseases will be lowered. > Granted a large tank like you have may not be affected too much there > is always the possibility that trouble could happen. The window area is the only location available for a six foot tank. Not sure how it will affect the tank but we do keep the air on in the summer. It only gets direct sun for an hour or so in the evenings -- Western exposure. But regardless, it's the only option and I'm aware of the importance of keeping an eye on temperature -- and this house is so inconsistant, no matter what the thermostat says, some rooms are cold and some rooms are hot. My personal experience with algea is that it didn't matter what the light conditions were, we had it in spades. My daughter's little tank has a nice population of snails that keep it in check and have managed to survive being eaten by her fish. Since the new tank will also be cool water, so I'll probably stick w/ snails. I like the idea of having more than one heater for emergancies (our furnace went out a few years ago - we were ok bundled up, but my dog has no hair... he wasn't too happy. I couldn't imagine the problems if we'd had a fish tank and no heater.) Will check out set up when it arrives and see what I need to buy. Where I was having problems was w/ the issue of substrate, but I think I feel more confident there. The next question is lighting... I don't see the post I though I put through this morning. If it doesn't come through, the long and the short of it is that if I'm understanding what I'm reading correctly, I need 200 watt bulbs (wide spectrum, I've used plant lights before, just not in an aquarium) and I can't seem to find bulbs w/ the high of wattage. Maybe I'm not understanding what I'm reading because my experience isn't w/ aquatic gardening. I would very greatly appreciate advice on the subject of lighting. (I'll be doing low and medium light plants, 100 gallon tank.) I remember kelvins from science class, but can really only relate that to star temperature, not sure how that relates to plants, although I know the obvious that bright (hot) lights warm up the water, which may become a condern in the summer months even w/ the air conditioner running we'll have to see and adjust the tank conditions accordingly... once I figure out where I'm starting with lighting. Once again, thank you!! Helen > although the tank does have a heater, which is probably good > because in winter especially my house gets a little chilly.) > It would be best to have two or more heaters so that if one goes > out (does not heat) then the other(s) will keep the tank from going > down too fast or if one heater sticks on then it will not be able > give you broiled fish. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn > <thylacine_yawn@> wrote: > > > > Thank you Beverly for the welcome! :) > > > > I'm still in the planning stages and can't seem to get past what > to put on the bottom of the tank! The more I read, the more > confusing it gets. I'm doing a cool water set up, making it easy on > myself and planning on buying a collection of plants already put > together by the nursery (I'll add to later as I become more confident > in how to choose plants -- but starting out with a 150 gallon tank, > the initial planting can be an expert's collection.) After the > plants have settled in and the tank has cycled, we'll be adding fish > (cool water species, obviously -- although the tank does have a > heater, which is probably good because in winter especially my house > gets a little chilly.) I have a nice sunny front window to put the > tank up next to, as well as adding grow lights for the plants, > especially in winter when no window in this house gets any light! I > haven't checked out the filter system that comes w/ the set up yet > (buying used), but will add to as necessary. > > > > Any suggestions from real people actually using one substrate or > another would be greatly appreciated (as would any other advice -- > this is really new to me, but I appreciate the beauty of a planted > tank so much more than a "regular" tank, even though it is a good > deal more expensive to set up. We're taking it in stages and I'm > learning the value of patience ;) > > > > Thanks! > > Helen > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: New fishaholic

Welcome to the group. I'm presuming you know your tanks are undersized/overstocked. I realize you are rescuing many of these fish but I hope they aren't staying in those undersized tanks for too long.... or I hope you are doing daily PWC's to compensate for the undersized/overstocked tanks. I've rescued fish myself but I also resist rescuing them if I do not have room to adequately house them as that would be detrimental to the current fish in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New fishaholic Hi,everyone,Happy new year I spent the first hour on here setting up my profile page which IExplorer shut down before I could load it,ahhhhhhh. I am an avid fish owner,predominantly freshwater tropical livebearers,although I have other adopted,inherited,impulsively bought other fish.This is my current collection: 15 gal desktop-"Fluffy"8 yr Black Moor,10",one eye due to Pleco incident,3" Black Moor,2 months old,named me too(Mini me" was eaten by filter)Computer desk 10 Gallon 5 Mollies,black and silver,castle live plants-living room 10 gallon 6 blue dwarf gouramis awaiting new2me 75 gallon planted home-Studio 20 gal. 2 female bettas,1 forlorn male betta,rescued from fishbowl, 6 platies used 2 cycle tank,2 corycats,1 large unidentified terrified catfish rescued from goldfish tank(guest bath) 30 gal 2 overgrown goldfish,rescued,4 splitfin goldfish,rescued from feeder tank,2 multicolored koi,2 large stripe danios-above garden tub,master bath 40 gallon-50+platies,mickey mouse,fire,golden,dwarf,started with 3 females and 1 male,"three amigos"fancy tail male guppies,Bozo,clown loach,"dragon"8"leopard pleco,"mermaid" golden pleco,all living in around under huge double castle w/blue turrets and artificial plant mat-living room 50 gal.-1 spoiled rotten 10"tiger oscar,named oscar and his tank buddy 12"leopard pleco named Felix,who takes no guff off of roommates.-Studio 1 emergency rescue tank,10 gal,cyled with platies I adopt rescue fish before the tidy bowl man can snatch them and buy "like new fish tank"from those that thought they did but decided they didn't Glad to be here,Couldn't get on another yahoo site on fish(voice from above)"waiting for approval" I am an enthusiastic researcher of all things,prodominently squishes at the present time I raised two college grads,one environmental biologist. I taught art to over 200 adult students for 15+yrs,painted murals in over 300 homes/business/schools,was divorced after 24 yrs, had cancer and near fatal spinal collapse,retired to new home,2nd chance at life,2nd chance at love.Very blessed. love2laugh,Sheri No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25272	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: hEY

Welcome to the group. While your tanks may have been working for the short time that you've had them, you will either need to get much larger tanks or thin out the stocking if you want all of your fish to live out their full potential lifespans. The "4ft" tanks would need to be around 200G (6' to 8' long tank) to adequately house all of the fish you have in each one. The common plecos grow to 18"+ and need 75G per pleco. The "3ft" tank is much too small for goldfish. Depending on the type, goldfish need 30G to 50G per goldfish and the long bodied varieties should be in a really big tank (or a pond) since they grow to over 12" and are really big-time swimmers compared to their round bodied cousins. A single full grown goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish, regardless of body type so even the 30G to 50G per goldfish is really on the low side and needs plenty of filtration and at least weekly 25% PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of asbo032000 Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hEY Hey ya i've just joined thought i would introduce myself, i have 2x 4ft tropical tanks and one 3ft coldwater tank, all been up and running for 3/2 years, in one of my 4ft i have, 4 very large angelfish, 2 large comon plecs, 2 red eye tetras and 3 3 spot gormis. In my other 4ft i have momstly livebearves, mollies, guppies,zebra danons,black widows,neons,2 common plecs,glowlight teras, Harlequin and Buenos aires tetra. I have 8 large goldfish in the 3ft. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25273	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Bark background

Cork bark works but other tree bark would not work. Cork does not absorb water.... or if it does, it does not deteriorate like regular tree bark does. Regular tree bark would foul your water and turn into mush in short order. This is why you will see that driftwood does not have bark on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bark background I recently read an article about using cork bark as a background for planted aquariums,Can any tree bark be used? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25274	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: want to have live plants got q's 1st

Be careful about which plants you buy at some chain pet stores. They often sell bog plants as underwater plants and the plants die in a short time and will foul your water. Here are a couple of links to some very easy and easy rated plants that do not need special lighting, CO2, etc., so they are a good start up plant. There are over 75 plants in the very easy and easy categories so you can still create a very nice aquascape. Each plant profile will give you much more info about where the plant would look best in the tank. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ialreadytaken4 Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] want to have live plants got q's 1st I HAVE A 75G TANK AND I AM GETTINT TIRED OF THE PLASTIC LOOK HAVE NEVER REALLY TRIED REAL PLANTS. BOT WILL ING TO TRY ANYTHING ONCE.. IN MY TANK I HAVE 5 BLACK PHANTOMS, 5 ZEBRA DANIOS, 6 WHITE SHIRTS, 2 ANGLES,1 DRAGON GOBY AND I DONT KBOW WHAT TO START OFF WITH ANY ADVICE IS WELCOME. I DONT WANT TO START OFF WITH SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO DIE IN A DAY OR TWO. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25275	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate question - planted tanks

Here is a very simple article on Fishless Cycling which tells you how much ammonia to add... usually around 3-5 drops per gallon but since drops can be of varying sizes, it's best to test to make sure you do not go over 5ppm. You are looking for the 10% solution of plain ammonia which can be purchased at Ace Hardware stores and other places for a dollar or two for a quart which is much more than you will need for all but the largest of tanks. http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/fishlesscycling.html This next article uses the SeaChem Ammonia Alert monitor as the gauge for adding ammonia instead of having to test it with a test kit. The downside of using the Ammonia Alert is that it turns to the darkest (highest) level at only 2ppm of ammonia where you actually want to get it up to 4-5ppm to achieve the fastest results. http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html One last thing that many articles do not address is that if you have softer water or low mineral content water, you may have to do regular PWC's or add baking soda as the fishless cycling tank could cause the pH to crash to a level where the nitrifying bacteria quit multiplying. I've never had this problem with my liquid-rock type water down here but I've seen it happen to other fish keepers while helping them in other forums. It took a while to figure out what was causing the cycle to stagnate and eventually we figured out it was due to a lack of minerals in the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate question - planted tanks The ammonia method is the best way to go, food is probably not very good as it can fungus before it decomposes enough to add ammonia to the water. You do need to do a lot of testing, just as you would if you cycle with fish. You need to test the ammonia level each day, and then add enough ammonia to bring it back up to the desired level. Once you get a feel for how much to add to do that, it is really no big deal, and ballparking the measurement is acceptable, but may extend the time for your cycle to complete. I never really took extensive notes when I did it, but, if you wish, feel free. Most plants will not be harmed by cycling the tank this way. I say most, though I have never seen one, but there is always the chance that there is one out there that will. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate question - planted tanks > > A tank cannot cycle unless there is a source of ammonia for the > bacteria to live on and without fish there will not be a source unless > you add it from some other means. > I read about two methods, one adding amonia directly (clear, plain, nothing added amonia), and another involving "feeding" the empty tank and letting the fish flakes break down; both involve lots of testing and keeping of notes because obviously fish don't get added until the amonia is back down to nothing. Since i have another tank in the house, I've got some "starter" bacteria although it won't be much to begin w/, since the tank is small... although I didn't gather that a whole lot was needed, just something to kick start the process if it was available. I would love to hear from someone who has actually done fishless cycling (I didn't do any kind of intentional cycling w/ my daughter's tank, but it only has one fish in it, which I think is why we didn't have any problems. I grew up around fish tanks, I don't remember any mention of cycling ever being made. It's good to know about though.) My understanding is that neither method mentioned above is harmful to plants. > I have a nice sunny front window to put the tank up next to, as > well as adding grow lights for the plants That is not a good place to > put a tank because in the summer when the sun does shine in it will > give enough light so that algae will have a chance to take over the > tan and also the temp difference > could change the temp of the tank so that the fish will become > stressed and with stress the resistance to diseases will be lowered. > Granted a large tank like you have may not be affected too much there > is always the possibility that trouble could happen. The window area is the only location available for a six foot tank. Not sure how it will affect the tank but we do keep the air on in the summer. It only gets direct sun for an hour or so in the evenings -- Western exposure. But regardless, it's the only option and I'm aware of the importance of keeping an eye on temperature -- and this house is so inconsistant, no matter what the thermostat says, some rooms are cold and some rooms are hot. My personal experience with algea is that it didn't matter what the light conditions were, we had it in spades. My daughter's little tank has a nice population of snails that keep it in check and have managed to survive being eaten by her fish. Since the new tank will also be cool water, so I'll probably stick w/ snails. I like the idea of having more than one heater for emergancies (our furnace went out a few years ago - we were ok bundled up, but my dog has no hair... he wasn't too happy. I couldn't imagine the problems if we'd had a fish tank and no heater.) Will check out set up when it arrives and see what I need to buy. Where I was having problems was w/ the issue of substrate, but I think I feel more confident there. The next question is lighting... I don't see the post I though I put through this morning. If it doesn't come through, the long and the short of it is that if I'm understanding what I'm reading correctly, I need 200 watt bulbs (wide spectrum, I've used plant lights before, just not in an aquarium) and I can't seem to find bulbs w/ the high of wattage. Maybe I'm not understanding what I'm reading because my experience isn't w/ aquatic gardening. I would very greatly appreciate advice on the subject of lighting. (I'll be doing low and medium light plants, 100 gallon tank.) I remember kelvins from science class, but can really only relate that to star temperature, not sure how that relates to plants, although I know the obvious that bright (hot) lights warm up the water, which may become a condern in the summer months even w/ the air conditioner running we'll have to see and adjust the tank conditions accordingly... once I figure out where I'm starting with lighting. Once again, thank you!! Helen > although the tank does have a heater, which is probably good because > in winter especially my house gets a little chilly.) It would be best > to have two or more heaters so that if one goes > out (does not heat) then the other(s) will keep the tank from going > down too fast or if one heater sticks on then it will not be able give > you broiled fish. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@> wrote: > > > > Thank you Beverly for the welcome! :) > > > > I'm still in the planning stages and can't seem to get past what > to put on the bottom of the tank! The more I read, the more confusing > it gets. I'm doing a cool water set up, making it easy on > myself and planning on buying a collection of plants already put > together by the nursery (I'll add to later as I become more confident > in how to choose plants -- but starting out with a 150 gallon tank, > the initial planting can be an expert's collection.) After the plants > have settled in and the tank has cycled, we'll be adding fish > (cool water species, obviously -- although the tank does have a > heater, which is probably good because in winter especially my house > gets a little chilly.) I have a nice sunny front window to put the > tank up next to, as well as adding grow lights for the plants, > especially in winter when no window in this house gets any light! I > haven't checked out the filter system that comes w/ the set up yet > (buying used), but will add to as necessary. > > > > Any suggestions from real people actually using one substrate or > another would be greatly appreciated (as would any other advice -- > this is really new to me, but I appreciate the beauty of a planted > tank so much more than a "regular" tank, even though it is a good deal > more expensive to set up. We're taking it in stages and I'm learning > the value of patience ;) > > > > Thanks! > > Helen > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25276	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Bark background

I would not even be sure of cork, but, there are barks that would be dangerous to use in a tank with your fish since they would leach toxins to the fish. Cork is soft, and I would think it would be more prone to rotting in a much shorter period of time than the driftwood that is used as aquarium décor. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bark background I recently read an article about using cork bark as a background for planted aquariums,Can any tree bark be used?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25277	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: Bark background

Steve, I would have thought with all of your wisdom (aka - old age.. lol) you would have remembered using a cork when going fishing. Wasn't that you chasing behind Andy and Opie? I'm talking about an old fashioned cork... made out of cork tree bark, not one of them new fangled styrofoam or plastic thingies. I've never actually used it but in all of my readings, I've seen where others have used cork as a background and it supposedly lasts a really long time since cork doesn't absorb water like other woods do. Here is one of Chuck's Aquarium pages outlining a tank that he used cork bark as the background in a 46g Paludarium but the cork is both under water and above it. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm The Krib also has an old page about backgrounds and they talk about using cork and some other DIY ways for attaching the plants to the cork background. http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/backgrounds.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bark background I would not even be sure of cork, but, there are barks that would be dangerous to use in a tank with your fish since they would leach toxins to the fish. Cork is soft, and I would think it would be more prone to rotting in a much shorter period of time than the driftwood that is used as aquarium décor. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Bark background I recently read an article about using cork bark as a background for planted aquariums,Can any tree bark be used? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25278	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2008
Subject: Re: want to have live plants got q's 1st

I am a notorious plant killer. I do manage to keep some plants alive. Java Moss, hard to kill, reproduces fairly fast, low light demands. Java Fern, needs little light, reproduces fairly fast. Any variety of Anubias. Slow growing, needs little light. Hard to kill, don't bury the Rhizome, tie it gently to a rock or driftwood. You can actually attach any of these three I mentioned to rocks or driftwood. Both Anubias and Java Fern are tough plants that most fish have a hard time trying to eat. I know the other list members here will give you some great advice on plants, I keep mostly Cichlids and they are known destroyers of plants. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: ialreadytaken4 <ialreadytaken4@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:18 am Subject: [AquaticLife] want to have live plants got q's 1st I HAVE A 75G TANK AND I AM GETTINT TIRED OF THE PLASTIC LOOK HAVE NEVER REALLY TRIED REAL PLANTS. BOT WILL ING TO TRY ANYTHING ONCE.. IN MY TANK I HAVE 5 BLACK PHANTOMS, 5 ZEBRA DANIOS, 6 WHITE SHIRTS, 2 ANGLES,1 DRAGON GOBY AND I DONT KBOW WHAT TO START OFF WITH ANY ADVICE IS WELCOME. I DONT WANT TO START OFF WITH SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO DIE IN A DAY OR TWO. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25279	From: asbo032000	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: Re: hEY

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Welcome to the group. While your tanks may have been working for the short > time that you've had them, you will either need to get much larger tanks or > thin out the stocking if you want all of your fish to live out their full > potential lifespans. > > The "4ft" tanks would need to be around 200G (6' to 8' long tank) to > adequately house all of the fish you have in each one. The common plecos > grow to 18"+ and need 75G per pleco. > > The "3ft" tank is much too small for goldfish. Depending on the type, > goldfish need 30G to 50G per goldfish and the long bodied varieties should > be in a really big tank (or a pond) since they grow to over 12" and are > really big-time swimmers compared to their round bodied cousins. A single > full grown goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish, > regardless of body type so even the 30G to 50G per goldfish is really on the > low side and needs plenty of filtration and at least weekly 25% PWC's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of asbo032000 > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] hEY > > Hey ya i've just joined thought i would introduce myself, i have 2x 4ft > tropical tanks and one 3ft coldwater tank, all been up and running for > 3/2 years, > in one of my 4ft i have, 4 very large angelfish, 2 large comon plecs, 2 red > eye tetras and 3 3 spot gormis. > In my other 4ft i have momstly livebearves, mollies, guppies,zebra > danons,black widows,neons,2 common plecs,glowlight teras, Harlequin and > Buenos aires tetra. > I have 8 large goldfish in the 3ft. > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 > 11:29 AM > Yes already know about the sizes they grow too, as as we speak he is buliding some rather big tanks/units lol my gold fish are about 3in long at the min, there about 3 years old. My comon plec is about 8in at the min and then when he gets a little bigger i have a 7ft tank waiting for him, as he was my first fish and my little baby lol.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25280	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: Cork Bark Reference

As I am getting into planted aquariums more,I found this wonderful article at plantgeek.net. http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=13 I have three new aquariums on the way for anyone worried about my inadequate space for my fish,a 75,60 and a 55.Thanks for the encouraging note!!! Sheri

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25281	From: pinkvock	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: learning alot

Well guys just want to say how much I appreciate all the knowledge and time everyone donates on this site. Especially Lenny, you've answered my posts everytime and I really appreciate it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25282	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: Re: hEY

Something you can do to help keep the fish from suffering any stress related issues due to their temporary overcrowding is more frequent PWC's (25% Partial Water Changes). Especially for the goldfish and pleco and other large bodied fish that put out lots of waste, hormones, etc., so it's important to do frequent PWC's to remove/dilute the waste. If your goldfish are three years old and only 3", they are likely to be stunted and possibly permanently stunted. Goldfish should grow 90% of their size in the first 1-2 years in a proper size tank/pond. Most pleco's grow for longer periods of time so the stunting can be reversed on them if they get moved to a proper sized tank in time. I rescued a two year old common pleco who was in a 10G tank for it's first two years and was only 4" long. After putting him in 4' long, 65G tank, he grew from 4" to 10" in only a year and a half. Hurricane Katrina messed up my plans for a bigger tank so I had to rehome him last year since my 65G wasn't big enough for him and my other fish. One of the things you said made me think about a common problem that lots of new fish keepers have. Many folks think they will get a larger tank when the fish gets bigger but the stunting effect on the fish will keep it from getting bigger. It's a kind of catch-22 for fish keeping. It's best to get the proper sized tank for the expected adult size of the fish so it can grow into the tank without suffering from stunting issues from being kept in an undersized tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of asbo032000 Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hEY Yes already know about the sizes they grow too, as we speak he is building some rather big tanks/units lol my gold fish are about 3in long at the min, there about 3 years old. My common plec is about 8in at the min and then when he gets a little bigger I have a 7ft tank waiting for him, as he was my first fish and my little baby lol. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Welcome to the group. While your tanks may have been working for the short > time that you've had them, you will either need to get much larger tanks or > thin out the stocking if you want all of your fish to live out their full > potential lifespans. > > The "4ft" tanks would need to be around 200G (6' to 8' long tank) to > adequately house all of the fish you have in each one. The common plecos > grow to 18"+ and need 75G per pleco. > > The "3ft" tank is much too small for goldfish. Depending on the type, > goldfish need 30G to 50G per goldfish and the long bodied varieties should > be in a really big tank (or a pond) since they grow to over 12" and are > really big-time swimmers compared to their round bodied cousins. A single > full grown goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish, > regardless of body type so even the 30G to 50G per goldfish is really on the > low side and needs plenty of filtration and at least weekly 25% PWC's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of asbo032000 > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] hEY > > Hey ya i've just joined thought i would introduce myself, i have 2x 4ft > tropical tanks and one 3ft coldwater tank, all been up and running for > 3/2 years, > in one of my 4ft i have, 4 very large angelfish, 2 large comon plecs, 2 red > eye tetras and 3 3 spot gormis. > In my other 4ft i have momstly livebearves, mollies, guppies,zebra > danons,black widows,neons,2 common plecs,glowlight teras, Harlequin and > Buenos aires tetra. > I have 8 large goldfish in the 3ft. > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 > 11:29 AM > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25283	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: Another question - Lighting

I'm just starting out with plants and lighting myself, but I did find this site interesting. It's a non-scientific comparison between T12, T18, T10, and CF. <http://woo.gotdns.com/Aquarium/Lighting.htm> http://woo.gotdns.com/Aquarium/Lighting.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25284	From: Christine	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: New Goldfish

Well I thought I would share cause its a strange occurance. I work at Petsmart and we got some fish in the store, wellll... there was a calico telescope goldfish we couldnt sell because of a birth defect. He only has one eye!! Well, needless to say he is a part of our happy family now!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25285	From: bmp	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: Re: Another question - Lighting

Thanks for the links Lynn! I found some good information at this site, especially when I got to the calculator that helps me know how many watts I need for my type of fixture. Fortunately, I'm going to be in better shape than I expected. Thanks for sharing. Beverly --- Lynn Francis <mlfrancis2@...> wrote: > I'm just starting out with plants and lighting > myself, but I did find this > site interesting. It's a non-scientific comparison > between T12, T18, T10, > and CF. > > <http://woo.gotdns.com/Aquarium/Lighting.htm> > http://woo.gotdns.com/Aquarium/Lighting.htm > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25286	From: Rei - Raymond Tremor	Date: 1/4/2008
Subject: Re: Another question - Lighting

I have an eclipse hood with an F18T8 bulb. What is the F18 is it the watt or the length? I have a 30 gallon with a length of 36 inches. If the F18 is the watt (like 18 watt), is there a higher output bulb or brighter? I have plants on my aquarium and the height is 17 inches from top to bottom. The bulb that came with the hood is kinda dim. Also what watt do I need for the plants that have bulbs (seeds, like the one on "grow your own live aquarium plants")? -------Original Message------- From: bmp Date: 1/4/2008 6:22:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Another question - Lighting Thanks for the links Lynn! I found some good information at this site, especially when I got to the calculator that helps me know how many watts I need for my type of fixture. Fortunately, I'm going to be in better shape than I expected. Thanks for sharing. Beverly --- Lynn Francis <mlfrancis2@...> wrote: > I'm just starting out with plants and lighting > myself, but I did find this > site interesting. It's a non-scientific comparison > between T12, T18, T10, > and CF. > > <http://woo.gotdns.com/Aquarium/Lighting.htm> > http://woo.gotdns.com/Aquarium/Lighting.htm > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Peace, please! _____________________________________________________________________________ ______ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25287	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: learning alot

<<It's best to get the proper sized tank for the expected adult size of the fish so it can grow into the tank without suffering from stunting issues from being kept in an undersized tank. >> It's also cheaper (and easier) in the long run -- buy it once, set it up once, and have it over with. It's one of those things though -- I don't know of anyone who ever got a puppy and a puppy sized kennel, planning to "buy a bigger one" later on -- we just get kennels the right size for an adult dog, and that's it - done. I wonder why most people don't think in the same terms for fish (and for that matter reptiles, whose first time owners often make the same mistake.) I would also like to second that thank you to everyone sharing their knowledge! ~Helen --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25288	From: Red Terror	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: information

does anyone here have a diana walstad type of tank? and if anyone here has a saltwater setup but instead of the usual corals its filled with macros and/or marine plants? Please share with me your experience for i am 100% sure its going to help me to become a better custodian of this natural beauties. thank you so much for any information Godbless

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

This is Lenny's dog typing this.... Hey lady... don't go talking about no kennel around here! I have free reign of the house and I like it that way. It's bad enough when he puts me in one of them darn travel cages for long road trips. If he ends up putting me in a kennel because of your post, I'm going to sniff you down and excessively fertilize and dig up your flower beds. ruff! ruff! Barney -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Pattskyn Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot <<It's best to get the proper sized tank for the expected adult size of the fish so it can grow into the tank without suffering from stunting issues from being kept in an undersized tank. >> It's also cheaper (and easier) in the long run -- buy it once, set it up once, and have it over with. It's one of those things though -- I don't know of anyone who ever got a puppy and a puppy sized kennel, planning to "buy a bigger one" later on -- we just get kennels the right size for an adult dog, and that's it - done. I wonder why most people don't think in the same terms for fish (and for that matter reptiles, whose first time owners often make the same mistake.) I would also like to second that thank you to everyone sharing their knowledge! ~Helen No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1209 - Release Date: 1/4/2008 12:05 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25290	From: bmp	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

--- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > <<It's best to get > the proper sized tank for the expected adult size of > the fish so it can grow > into the tank without suffering from stunting issues > from being kept in an > undersized tank. ........... > >>I wonder why most people don't > think in the same terms > for fish (and for that matter reptiles, whose first > time owners often make > the same mistake.) Lenny, your outlook on this is perfectly logical, makes great sense. But, if I may, I will speak up for those of us who started somewhat smaller and then bought a larger tank. It's because of the great uncertainty and insecurity at the beginning as to whether the fish will survive, much less thrive. And I doubt anyone at the very, very beginning realizes how strong the urge will be later to add more variety to their fishkeeping hobby. And then there is the problem with inaccurate or unreliable advice being given so freely in print and online so that it can be hard to be sure what sort of adult size a given fish will attain. Last night I finished setting up the substrate in my new 55 gallon and added the first plants, plus 'seeding' with goodies from other tanks to start the tank's cycle. I'm hoping this cycle will go faster than the previous ones as I feel more comfortable and a little more confident in how the process works. Happy Saturday! Beverly Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25291	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

Hey, Lenny's dog! I'm Sneak, the BC amongst a bunch of troublemaking Shelties. My Steve tells me that a kennel is the same thing as a crate, and I love my crate! It is my refuge. I sleep in it nearly every night, and I put myself there. If I need to get away from things, I go in there. No one bothers me, except sometimes Patches goes in there and I have to use his. My mommy locked me in his one night, what a drag. They put me in thee when they leave so I don't get into trouble, but they have a strange definition of "trouble". When I check out the trash, which every self-respecting dog should do, I am in "trouble", things like that. Duke is the only one who does not get put into a crate--ever! But he mostly sleeps, and they call him the "Old Man", and usually gets special treatment over the rest of us, which ain't right. But crates is good things, you should try them more. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot This is Lenny's dog typing this.... Hey lady... don't go talking about no kennel around here! I have free reign of the house and I like it that way. It's bad enough when he puts me in one of them darn travel cages for long road trips. If he ends up putting me in a kennel because of your post, I'm going to sniff you down and excessively fertilize and dig up your flower beds. ruff! ruff! Barney -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Pattskyn Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot <<It's best to get the proper sized tank for the expected adult size of the fish so it can grow into the tank without suffering from stunting issues from being kept in an undersized tank. >> It's also cheaper (and easier) in the long run -- buy it once, set it up once, and have it over with. It's one of those things though -- I don't know of anyone who ever got a puppy and a puppy sized kennel, planning to "buy a bigger one" later on -- we just get kennels the right size for an adult dog, and that's it - done. I wonder why most people don't think in the same terms for fish (and for that matter reptiles, whose first time owners often make the same mistake.) I would also like to second that thank you to everyone sharing their knowledge! ~Helen No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1209 - Release Date: 1/4/2008 12:05 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. *´Ż`*.¸¸.><((((ş>.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸><((((ş> ¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸<ş((((><¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..<ş((((><*´Ż`*.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25292	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

Crates should be just for training. I had a friend who ended up putting her dog to sleep because, like any living thing, it bit her and her husband as it grew older and got sick of being shoved into a cage all the time -- dogs don't deserve prison:). Shouldn't crate training be completed in a few weeks to months? BUT if you allow them to use it as a safe "cave" type place with the door open, it sounds great for the doggies:) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Hey, Lenny's dog! I'm Sneak, the BC amongst a bunch of troublemaking Shelties. My Steve tells me that a kennel is the same thing as a crate, and I love my crate! It is my refuge. I sleep in it nearly every night, and I put myself there. If I need to get away from things, I go in there. No one bothers me, except sometimes Patches goes in there and I have to use his. My mommy locked me in his one night, what a drag. They put me in thee when they leave so I don't get into trouble, but they have a strange definition of "trouble". When I check out the trash, which every self-respecting dog should do, I am in "trouble", things like that. Duke is the only one who does not get put into a crate--ever! But he mostly sleeps, and they call him the "Old Man", and usually gets special treatment over the rest of us, which ain't right. But crates is good things, you should try them more. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot This is Lenny's dog typing this.... Hey lady... don't go talking about no kennel around here! I have free reign of the house and I like it that way. It's bad enough when he puts me in one of them darn travel cages for long road trips. If he ends up putting me in a kennel because of your post, I'm going to sniff you down and excessively fertilize and dig up your flower beds. ruff! ruff! Barney -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Pattskyn Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot <<It's best to get the proper sized tank for the expected adult size of the fish so it can grow into the tank without suffering from stunting issues from being kept in an undersized tank. >> It's also cheaper (and easier) in the long run -- buy it once, set it up once, and have it over with. It's one of those things though -- I don't know of anyone who ever got a puppy and a puppy sized kennel, planning to "buy a bigger one" later on -- we just get kennels the right size for an adult dog, and that's it - done. I wonder why most people don't think in the same terms for fish (and for that matter reptiles, whose first time owners often make the same mistake.) I would also like to second that thank you to everyone sharing their knowledge! ~Helen No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1209 - Release Date: 1/4/2008 12:05 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. *´Ż`*.¸¸.><((((ş>.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸><((((ş> ¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸<ş((((><¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..<ş((((><*´Ż`*.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25293	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

(they also locked the dog in when they left - for work or wherever, and only let her out when they came home. I feel so bad for the dog and the family, it is really not a good way to have dogs) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Hey, Lenny's dog! I'm Sneak, the BC amongst a bunch of troublemaking Shelties. My Steve tells me that a kennel is the same thing as a crate, and I love my crate! It is my refuge. I sleep in it nearly every night, and I put myself there. If I need to get away from things, I go in there. No one bothers me, except sometimes Patches goes in there and I have to use his. My mommy locked me in his one night, what a drag. They put me in thee when they leave so I don't get into trouble, but they have a strange definition of "trouble". When I check out the trash, which every self-respecting dog should do, I am in "trouble", things like that. Duke is the only one who does not get put into a crate--ever! But he mostly sleeps, and they call him the "Old Man", and usually gets special treatment over the rest of us, which ain't right. But crates is good things, you should try them more. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot This is Lenny's dog typing this.... Hey lady... don't go talking about no kennel around here! I have free reign of the house and I like it that way. It's bad enough when he puts me in one of them darn travel cages for long road trips. If he ends up putting me in a kennel because of your post, I'm going to sniff you down and excessively fertilize and dig up your flower beds. ruff! ruff! Barney -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Pattskyn Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot <<It's best to get the proper sized tank for the expected adult size of the fish so it can grow into the tank without suffering from stunting issues from being kept in an undersized tank. >> It's also cheaper (and easier) in the long run -- buy it once, set it up once, and have it over with. It's one of those things though -- I don't know of anyone who ever got a puppy and a puppy sized kennel, planning to "buy a bigger one" later on -- we just get kennels the right size for an adult dog, and that's it - done. I wonder why most people don't think in the same terms for fish (and for that matter reptiles, whose first time owners often make the same mistake.) I would also like to second that thank you to everyone sharing their knowledge! ~Helen No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1209 - Release Date: 1/4/2008 12:05 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. *´Ż`*.¸¸.><((((ş>.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸><((((ş> ¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸<ş((((><¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..<ş((((><*´Ż`*.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25294	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

I have a pack that voluntarily put themselves to "bed" each night. It's the only break my poor cats get :-) A properly crate trained and not over-crated dog will seek it's crate and see it as a den, not a punishment. It can be used, properly, for the dog's lifetime. If at any point the dog becomes ill or injured, or needs to be kenneled for any other reason, it will be less stressed if the crate is not a foreign or unpleasant environment. Perhaps their crate was mis-used? Too bad they couldn't work things out :-( We get in dogs fairly regularly that have to be re-trained due to crates having been over-used or used as punishment :-( Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com On Jan 5, 2008 12:06 PM, Beth Lucas <bethmlucas@...> wrote: > Crates should be just for training. I had a friend who ended up putting her > dog to sleep because, like any living thing, it bit her and her husband as > it grew older and got sick of being shoved into a cage all the time -- dogs > don't deserve prison:). Shouldn't crate training be completed in a few weeks > to months? BUT if you allow them to use it as a safe "cave" type place with > the door open, it sounds great for the doggies:)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25295	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

I know, it is sad. It sounds like you use them in a great way, and any vet should help retrain a dog with these kind of iissues. But it’s too easy for people to hear crates are OK, and then use them instead of training their dogs.:) _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot I have a pack that voluntarily put themselves to "bed" each night. It's the only break my poor cats get :-) A properly crate trained and not over-crated dog will seek it's crate and see it as a den, not a punishment. It can be used, properly, for the dog's lifetime. If at any point the dog becomes ill or injured, or needs to be kenneled for any other reason, it will be less stressed if the crate is not a foreign or unpleasant environment. Perhaps their crate was mis-used? Too bad they couldn't work things out :-( We get in dogs fairly regularly that have to be re-trained due to crates having been over-used or used as punishment :-( Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com On Jan 5, 2008 12:06 PM, Beth Lucas <bethmlucas@cox. <mailto:bethmlucas%40cox.net> net> wrote: > Crates should be just for training. I had a friend who ended up putting her > dog to sleep because, like any living thing, it bit her and her husband as > it grew older and got sick of being shoved into a cage all the time -- dogs > don't deserve prison:). Shouldn't crate training be completed in a few weeks > to months? BUT if you allow them to use it as a safe "cave" type place with > the door open, it sounds great for the doggies:) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25296	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

If your dog is not crate trained, both you and the dog are headed for possible problems down the road. All of our dogs go into their crates willingly, by themselves, or upon command ("go crate"). Crates are not to be used as punishment devices, but as safe havens for the dogs. Keeping the dogs in crates while you are away is good for the dogs and your sanity. I can't venture a guess as to why the biting incidents occurred, but, strictly speaking it was no the fault of keeping the dog in a crate, if he was trained properly to the crate. Heck, even though it does not happen often any more, the Old Man still goes into the crate from time to time \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Crates should be just for training. I had a friend who ended up putting her dog to sleep because, like any living thing, it bit her and her husband as it grew older and got sick of being shoved into a cage all the time -- dogs don't deserve prison:). Shouldn't crate training be completed in a few weeks to months? BUT if you allow them to use it as a safe "cave" type place with the door open, it sounds great for the doggies:) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Hey, Lenny's dog! I'm Sneak, the BC amongst a bunch of troublemaking Shelties. My Steve tells me that a kennel is the same thing as a crate, and I love my crate! It is my refuge. I sleep in it nearly every night, and I put myself there. If I need to get away from things, I go in there. No one bothers me, except sometimes Patches goes in there and I have to use his. My mommy locked me in his one night, what a drag. They put me in thee when they leave so I don't get into trouble, but they have a strange definition of "trouble". When I check out the trash, which every self-respecting dog should do, I am in "trouble", things like that. Duke is the only one who does not get put into a crate--ever! But he mostly sleeps, and they call him the "Old Man", and usually gets special treatment over the rest of us, which ain't right. But crates is good things, you should try them more. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot This is Lenny's dog typing this.... Hey lady... don't go talking about no kennel around here! I have free reign of the house and I like it that way. It's bad enough when he puts me in one of them darn travel cages for long road trips. If he ends up putting me in a kennel because of your post, I'm going to sniff you down and excessively fertilize and dig up your flower beds. ruff! ruff! Barney -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Pattskyn Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot <<It's best to get the proper sized tank for the expected adult size of the fish so it can grow into the tank without suffering from stunting issues from being kept in an undersized tank. >> It's also cheaper (and easier) in the long run -- buy it once, set it up once, and have it over with. It's one of those things though -- I don't know of anyone who ever got a puppy and a puppy sized kennel, planning to "buy a bigger one" later on -- we just get kennels the right size for an adult dog, and that's it - done. I wonder why most people don't think in the same terms for fish (and for that matter reptiles, whose first time owners often make the same mistake.) I would also like to second that thank you to everyone sharing their knowledge! ~Helen

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25297	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

One of my own dogs was second hand. His original family (mom, dad, infant and toddler) heard about how great crates are. Figured a puppy would be managable if you could just throw it in a crate when you were busy. With 2 working parent and 2 young kids that was literally about 22 hours a day. When we got him he was 100% neurotic and unsocialized. He's 10 now and pretty awesome, but to this day he goes totally insane when he sees people of the same ethnic group that his original owners were :-( -- Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com Ontario, Canada On Jan 5, 2008 12:25 PM, Beth Lucas <bethmlucas@...> wrote: > > > > > > > I know, it is sad. It sounds like you use them in a great way, and any vet > should help retrain a dog with these kind of iissues. But it's too easy for > people to hear crates are OK, and then use them instead of training their > dogs.:) > > _____

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25298	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

All of our dogs are, technically, rescue dogs. Duke (aka "The Old Man") came to us via someone Lynne knew. They had Duke and put in for elderly housing, and were told that they would have a several year wait prior to getting a unit. Son of a gun, if they didn't get assigned a unit a few months later. They had to give up Duke, and Lynne took him some 12 years, or so, ago. When we moved down to Northern VA, we took him downtown (otherwise, to the rest of the world, known as Washington, DC, and took pictures of him in front of, or on. all the monuments around the mall. Lynne is in touch with the woman who was his original mom, and she still shows those pictures to all who will look <g>. Patches came to us through Sheltie Rescue. He came from a puppy mill via a pet shop that finally lowered his price so much that someone purchased him. They were unable to keep him properly and kept him crated most of the time. He had a lot of problems when he came to us, but Lynne worked with him and overcame most of the problems, though he sometimes reverts a bit. He was afraid of almost everything, which caused him to be a bit on the nippy side. It took her two weeks to get him to walk down the front walk, because he was afraid of walking on concrete, and so on and so forth. He also shows signs of having been beaten. Finally, we have Sneak, who came from a Wisconsin shelter where he was about to be put down. He was supposed to be a fighter, and cat killer. He is neither, but one of the sweetest dogs you'll ever meet. He is the youngest, and like the BC before him, has decided he is my dog, much to Lynne's chagrin. After all, she is the dog person here. He was definitely abused prior to being turned into the shelter. As far as being a cat killer, well, he does respect our 20 lb. cat, and tries to avoid him when he can.. He also has shown no signs of aggressiveness since he has been here, other than the normal BC trait of all toys belong to me. The cat, a Ragdoll, is our last surviving feline since I had to put down Mai-Hesa last year. As mentioned, Raginald T. von Floppy is a 20# cat that takes no crap from anyone, never mind the dogs. He and Patches used to play together, with Rags most often coming out on top. He likes to hide down the hall when we are tossing toys for the dogs, and spring out at them as they go racing down the hall, which of course means they try to slam on the sneakers (on vinyl), with appropriate hilarity following. All the dogs are crate trained, and only Duke does not go into the crate on his own now, he used to, but he is old, and going deaf, as well as somewhat arthritic. It is a good thing that he knows his hand signals to come and sit and all that. A good reason for teachine hand signals to your dogs. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot One of my own dogs was second hand. His original family (mom, dad, infant and toddler) heard about how great crates are. Figured a puppy would be managable if you could just throw it in a crate when you were busy. With 2 working parent and 2 young kids that was literally about 22 hours a day. When we got him he was 100% neurotic and unsocialized. He's 10 now and pretty awesome, but to this day he goes totally insane when he sees people of the same ethnic group that his original owners were :-( -- Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com Ontario, Canada On Jan 5, 2008 12:25 PM, Beth Lucas <bethmlucas@...> wrote: > > > > > > > I know, it is sad. It sounds like you use them in a great way, and any vet > should help retrain a dog with these kind of iissues. But it's too easy for > people to hear crates are OK, and then use them instead of training their > dogs.:) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25299	From: ipartyforfun	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: learning alot

Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25300	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn’t constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don’t feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25301	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

Thanks for your thoughts Beth:-). Now does anyone have a good fish topic we can discuss? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn’t constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don’t feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25302	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

Dogfish anyone? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for your thoughts Beth:-). Now...does anyone have a good fish topic we can discuss? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn't constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don't feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25303	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

I just commented on goldfish a bit ago. It makes me very sad when people leave their pets in cages when they are at work, even if the poor things are “trained” to put up with it. I know people who have crate trained their dogs in a couple of weeks, and they behave incredibly, without being incarcerated when my friends are not home. It’s just sad when people don’t feel like doing that, and just let the dogs out of their cages in order to appease the humans who have come home. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for your thoughts Beth:-). Now does anyone have a good fish topic we can discuss? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn’t constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don’t feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25304	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

We had a fire in the townhouse next door, and they needed to get into our townhouse to ensure the fire did not spread, and to let the smoke out. The neighbors told them of our dogs, and Animal control was able to go in and pull out the crates with the dogs. They had no trouble finding the crates because of the ruckus the dogs made, but they also did not have to worry about being harmed by them either. The dogs are crated for their own safety, not only for that kind of reason, but so they do not get into trouble on their own, and access something they should not. There is a reason why Sneak has that name. FWIW, my other half has her own dog training business. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot I just commented on goldfish a bit ago. It makes me very sad when people leave their pets in cages when they are at work, even if the poor things are "trained" to put up with it. I know people who have crate trained their dogs in a couple of weeks, and they behave incredibly, without being incarcerated when my friends are not home. It's just sad when people don't feel like doing that, and just let the dogs out of their cages in order to appease the humans who have come home. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for your thoughts Beth:-). Now...does anyone have a good fish topic we can discuss? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn't constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don't feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25305	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

The ASPCA will provide anyone who contacts them, with recognizable stickers you place in a front window or door so firefighters will know you have pets inside. The pets don't have to be in cages to be rescued, if they're not in cages they can sometimes get out themselves, or run for the doors once opened by the rescuers. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot We had a fire in the townhouse next door, and they needed to get into our townhouse to ensure the fire did not spread, and to let the smoke out. The neighbors told them of our dogs, and Animal control was able to go in and pull out the crates with the dogs. They had no trouble finding the crates because of the ruckus the dogs made, but they also did not have to worry about being harmed by them either. The dogs are crated for their own safety, not only for that kind of reason, but so they do not get into trouble on their own, and access something they should not. There is a reason why Sneak has that name. FWIW, my other half has her own dog training business. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot I just commented on goldfish a bit ago. It makes me very sad when people leave their pets in cages when they are at work, even if the poor things are "trained" to put up with it. I know people who have crate trained their dogs in a couple of weeks, and they behave incredibly, without being incarcerated when my friends are not home. It's just sad when people don't feel like doing that, and just let the dogs out of their cages in order to appease the humans who have come home. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for your thoughts Beth:-). Now...does anyone have a good fish topic we can discuss? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn't constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don't feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25306	From: Bobby & Jennifer	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

My next door neighbor is a firefighter, my best friends husband is a firefighter, and we help out a local volunteer firefighter group and have heard so many, sad stories of family crying about there pets because they can't be found, only to find them too late hiding under a bed, under a table, etc because they are terrified. Not all dogs will "run out a door, especially if they can't see it, smell outside etc. I do have a note outside my front and back door stating what room the crates are in, I'm sure if anything does happen, they will be much easier to locate than searching the house over. Also, when we were broke into, my dog was crated and not left to run the streets with the front door being open, since the person who broke in had a gun, and my little Yorkie could have possibly been shot when growling at the person. The rottie, who was not crated was injured by being kicked in the face. For some of us this works, and is not being cruel or inhuman to our pets. Why argue about this, just accept that there are some who do this like it was intended, and others unfortunately do not. There are so many dogs less attended to in outdoor kennels or backyards, chained or un chained, or in some instances people's households running around loose. I could understand if this was a discussion with someone who was not tending to their animals, but it sounds like your defenses are being made to people to genuinely care about their pets. Jenn PS My fish were unharmed during the break in! Hooray! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot The ASPCA will provide anyone who contacts them, with recognizable stickers you place in a front window or door so firefighters will know you have pets inside. The pets don't have to be in cages to be rescued, if they're not in cages they can sometimes get out themselves, or run for the doors once opened by the rescuers. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot We had a fire in the townhouse next door, and they needed to get into our townhouse to ensure the fire did not spread, and to let the smoke out. The neighbors told them of our dogs, and Animal control was able to go in and pull out the crates with the dogs. They had no trouble finding the crates because of the ruckus the dogs made, but they also did not have to worry about being harmed by them either. The dogs are crated for their own safety, not only for that kind of reason, but so they do not get into trouble on their own, and access something they should not. There is a reason why Sneak has that name. FWIW, my other half has her own dog training business. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot I just commented on goldfish a bit ago. It makes me very sad when people leave their pets in cages when they are at work, even if the poor things are "trained" to put up with it. I know people who have crate trained their dogs in a couple of weeks, and they behave incredibly, without being incarcerated when my friends are not home. It's just sad when people don't feel like doing that, and just let the dogs out of their cages in order to appease the humans who have come home. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for your thoughts Beth:-). Now...does anyone have a good fish topic we can discuss? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn't constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don't feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25307	From: Warren	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: New to the group

Hi every one, I am glad to be a part of the groug and look forword to sharing the experiance of keeping fish and learning from you all...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25308	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

Can we Start Talking about Ham Radio???? John in Nevada Bobby & Jennifer <Gittieup@...> wrote: My next door neighbor is a firefighter, my best friends husband is a firefighter, and we help out a local volunteer firefighter group and have heard so many, sad stories of family crying about there pets because they can't be found, only to find them too late hiding under a bed, under a table, etc because they are terrified. Not all dogs will "run out a door, especially if they can't see it, smell outside etc. I do have a note outside my front and back door stating what room the crates are in, I'm sure if anything does happen, they will be much easier to locate than searching the house over. Also, when we were broke into, my dog was crated and not left to run the streets with the front door being open, since the person who broke in had a gun, and my little Yorkie could have possibly been shot when growling at the person. The rottie, who was not crated was injured by being kicked in the face. For some of us this works, and is not being cruel or inhuman to our pets. Why argue about this, just accept that there are some who do this like it was intended, and others unfortunately do not. There are so many dogs less attended to in outdoor kennels or backyards, chained or un chained, or in some instances people's households running around loose. I could understand if this was a discussion with someone who was not tending to their animals, but it sounds like your defenses are being made to people to genuinely care about their pets. Jenn PS My fish were unharmed during the break in! Hooray! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot The ASPCA will provide anyone who contacts them, with recognizable stickers you place in a front window or door so firefighters will know you have pets inside. The pets don't have to be in cages to be rescued, if they're not in cages they can sometimes get out themselves, or run for the doors once opened by the rescuers. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot We had a fire in the townhouse next door, and they needed to get into our townhouse to ensure the fire did not spread, and to let the smoke out. The neighbors told them of our dogs, and Animal control was able to go in and pull out the crates with the dogs. They had no trouble finding the crates because of the ruckus the dogs made, but they also did not have to worry about being harmed by them either. The dogs are crated for their own safety, not only for that kind of reason, but so they do not get into trouble on their own, and access something they should not. There is a reason why Sneak has that name. FWIW, my other half has her own dog training business. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot I just commented on goldfish a bit ago. It makes me very sad when people leave their pets in cages when they are at work, even if the poor things are "trained" to put up with it. I know people who have crate trained their dogs in a couple of weeks, and they behave incredibly, without being incarcerated when my friends are not home. It's just sad when people don't feel like doing that, and just let the dogs out of their cages in order to appease the humans who have come home. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for your thoughts Beth:-). Now...does anyone have a good fish topic we can discuss? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn't constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don't feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25309	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

Remember that you need to supply a source of ammonia to the new tank to get it cycling. Just seeding it with filter media or substrate from a cycled tank will do nothing to keep it cycled. The nitrifying bacteria will die off within a few days if they are not fed ammonia, which is converted to nitrite to feed the main two-three nitrifying bacteria. Also, if one is fishless cycling a tank, it's best NOT to add plants as the plants will feed off of the ammonia lowering the ammonia level available for the nitrifying bacteria colony you are trying to grow. Now if you add enough plants to a new tank, there is no need to cycle it at all as the plants will consume all of the ammonia before the nitrogen cycle can work. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bmp Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > <<It's best to get > the proper sized tank for the expected adult size of the fish so it > can grow into the tank without suffering from stunting issues from > being kept in an undersized tank. ........... > >>I wonder why most people don't > think in the same terms > for fish (and for that matter reptiles, whose first time owners often > make the same mistake.) Lenny, your outlook on this is perfectly logical, makes great sense. But, if I may, I will speak up for those of us who started somewhat smaller and then bought a larger tank. It's because of the great uncertainty and insecurity at the beginning as to whether the fish will survive, much less thrive. And I doubt anyone at the very, very beginning realizes how strong the urge will be later to add more variety to their fishkeeping hobby. And then there is the problem with inaccurate or unreliable advice being given so freely in print and online so that it can be hard to be sure what sort of adult size a given fish will attain. Last night I finished setting up the substrate in my new 55 gallon and added the first plants, plus 'seeding' with goodies from other tanks to start the tank's cycle. I'm hoping this cycle will go faster than the previous ones as I feel more comfortable and a little more confident in how the process works. Happy Saturday! Beverly No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1209 - Release Date: 1/4/2008 12:05 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25310	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

Barney has been reprimanded for replying to the mention of a kennel in the post earlier today. It's Barney's fault for starting this ruckus and he apologizes and promises to never get on the computer without adult supervision. He says he was just making conversation. He has been advised that he will be put in a crate if he gets online again without adult supervision. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 5:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Can we Start Talking about Ham Radio???? John in Nevada Bobby & Jennifer <Gittieup@... <mailto:Gittieup%40aristotle.net> > wrote: My next door neighbor is a firefighter, my best friends husband is a firefighter, and we help out a local volunteer firefighter group and have heard so many, sad stories of family crying about there pets because they can't be found, only to find them too late hiding under a bed, under a table, etc because they are terrified. Not all dogs will "run out a door, especially if they can't see it, smell outside etc. I do have a note outside my front and back door stating what room the crates are in, I'm sure if anything does happen, they will be much easier to locate than searching the house over. Also, when we were broke into, my dog was crated and not left to run the streets with the front door being open, since the person who broke in had a gun, and my little Yorkie could have possibly been shot when growling at the person. The rottie, who was not crated was injured by being kicked in the face. For some of us this works, and is not being cruel or inhuman to our pets. Why argue about this, just accept that there are some who do this like it was intended, and others unfortunately do not. There are so many dogs less attended to in outdoor kennels or backyards, chained or un chained, or in some instances people's households running around loose. I could understand if this was a discussion with someone who was not tending to their animals, but it sounds like your defenses are being made to people to genuinely care about their pets. Jenn PS My fish were unharmed during the break in! Hooray! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot The ASPCA will provide anyone who contacts them, with recognizable stickers you place in a front window or door so firefighters will know you have pets inside. The pets don't have to be in cages to be rescued, if they're not in cages they can sometimes get out themselves, or run for the doors once opened by the rescuers. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot We had a fire in the townhouse next door, and they needed to get into our townhouse to ensure the fire did not spread, and to let the smoke out. The neighbors told them of our dogs, and Animal control was able to go in and pull out the crates with the dogs. They had no trouble finding the crates because of the ruckus the dogs made, but they also did not have to worry about being harmed by them either. The dogs are crated for their own safety, not only for that kind of reason, but so they do not get into trouble on their own, and access something they should not. There is a reason why Sneak has that name. FWIW, my other half has her own dog training business. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot I just commented on goldfish a bit ago. It makes me very sad when people leave their pets in cages when they are at work, even if the poor things are "trained" to put up with it. I know people who have crate trained their dogs in a couple of weeks, and they behave incredibly, without being incarcerated when my friends are not home. It's just sad when people don't feel like doing that, and just let the dogs out of their cages in order to appease the humans who have come home. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for your thoughts Beth:-). Now...does anyone have a good fish topic we can discuss? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn't constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don't feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1209 - Release Date: 1/4/2008 12:05 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25311	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

I still don't think an animal should live its life in a cage on the rare chance of a fire. That is awful when it happens, but worse stuff is sure to happen by caging animals. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bobby & Jennifer Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot My next door neighbor is a firefighter, my best friends husband is a firefighter, and we help out a local volunteer firefighter group and have heard so many, sad stories of family crying about there pets because they can't be found, only to find them too late hiding under a bed, under a table, etc because they are terrified. Not all dogs will "run out a door, especially if they can't see it, smell outside etc. I do have a note outside my front and back door stating what room the crates are in, I'm sure if anything does happen, they will be much easier to locate than searching the house over. Also, when we were broke into, my dog was crated and not left to run the streets with the front door being open, since the person who broke in had a gun, and my little Yorkie could have possibly been shot when growling at the person. The rottie, who was not crated was injured by being kicked in the face. For some of us this works, and is not being cruel or inhuman to our pets. Why argue about this, just accept that there are some who do this like it was intended, and others unfortunately do not. There are so many dogs less attended to in outdoor kennels or backyards, chained or un chained, or in some instances people's households running around loose. I could understand if this was a discussion with someone who was not tending to their animals, but it sounds like your defenses are being made to people to genuinely care about their pets. Jenn PS My fish were unharmed during the break in! Hooray! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot The ASPCA will provide anyone who contacts them, with recognizable stickers you place in a front window or door so firefighters will know you have pets inside. The pets don't have to be in cages to be rescued, if they're not in cages they can sometimes get out themselves, or run for the doors once opened by the rescuers. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot We had a fire in the townhouse next door, and they needed to get into our townhouse to ensure the fire did not spread, and to let the smoke out. The neighbors told them of our dogs, and Animal control was able to go in and pull out the crates with the dogs. They had no trouble finding the crates because of the ruckus the dogs made, but they also did not have to worry about being harmed by them either. The dogs are crated for their own safety, not only for that kind of reason, but so they do not get into trouble on their own, and access something they should not. There is a reason why Sneak has that name. FWIW, my other half has her own dog training business. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot I just commented on goldfish a bit ago. It makes me very sad when people leave their pets in cages when they are at work, even if the poor things are "trained" to put up with it. I know people who have crate trained their dogs in a couple of weeks, and they behave incredibly, without being incarcerated when my friends are not home. It's just sad when people don't feel like doing that, and just let the dogs out of their cages in order to appease the humans who have come home. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for your thoughts Beth:-). Now...does anyone have a good fish topic we can discuss? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn't constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don't feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25312	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

And btw, if the dog or cat runs outside, the people can grab it then, I have never been to the scene of a fire, and I have been to many for my job as well, where the people were just ignoring the doors. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 4:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Can we Start Talking about Ham Radio???? John in Nevada Bobby & Jennifer <Gittieup@aristotle. <mailto:Gittieup%40aristotle.net> net> wrote: My next door neighbor is a firefighter, my best friends husband is a firefighter, and we help out a local volunteer firefighter group and have heard so many, sad stories of family crying about there pets because they can't be found, only to find them too late hiding under a bed, under a table, etc because they are terrified. Not all dogs will "run out a door, especially if they can't see it, smell outside etc. I do have a note outside my front and back door stating what room the crates are in, I'm sure if anything does happen, they will be much easier to locate than searching the house over. Also, when we were broke into, my dog was crated and not left to run the streets with the front door being open, since the person who broke in had a gun, and my little Yorkie could have possibly been shot when growling at the person. The rottie, who was not crated was injured by being kicked in the face. For some of us this works, and is not being cruel or inhuman to our pets. Why argue about this, just accept that there are some who do this like it was intended, and others unfortunately do not. There are so many dogs less attended to in outdoor kennels or backyards, chained or un chained, or in some instances people's households running around loose. I could understand if this was a discussion with someone who was not tending to their animals, but it sounds like your defenses are being made to people to genuinely care about their pets. Jenn PS My fish were unharmed during the break in! Hooray! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot The ASPCA will provide anyone who contacts them, with recognizable stickers you place in a front window or door so firefighters will know you have pets inside. The pets don't have to be in cages to be rescued, if they're not in cages they can sometimes get out themselves, or run for the doors once opened by the rescuers. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot We had a fire in the townhouse next door, and they needed to get into our townhouse to ensure the fire did not spread, and to let the smoke out. The neighbors told them of our dogs, and Animal control was able to go in and pull out the crates with the dogs. They had no trouble finding the crates because of the ruckus the dogs made, but they also did not have to worry about being harmed by them either. The dogs are crated for their own safety, not only for that kind of reason, but so they do not get into trouble on their own, and access something they should not. There is a reason why Sneak has that name. FWIW, my other half has her own dog training business. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot I just commented on goldfish a bit ago. It makes me very sad when people leave their pets in cages when they are at work, even if the poor things are "trained" to put up with it. I know people who have crate trained their dogs in a couple of weeks, and they behave incredibly, without being incarcerated when my friends are not home. It's just sad when people don't feel like doing that, and just let the dogs out of their cages in order to appease the humans who have come home. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for your thoughts Beth:-). Now...does anyone have a good fish topic we can discuss? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn't constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don't feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25313	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Totally off topic.. crates...

;) first: LOL -- thanks for the good laugh... my dog only gets crated when we're going to be out of the house for more than a few minutes -- it's as much for his saftey as that of our stuff. He gets treats going into it, so he doesn't complain one bit (in fact as soon as he sees I'm dressed to go out he starts dancing around, looking at me, looking at the crate, looking at me, looking at the crate...) Beverly -- I know what you mean about being uncertain; I have this fear that I'm going to get everything set up and the fish are going to die... I had a horrible experience w/ the outdoor pond. I keep telling myself to be brave, that the indoor tank is much more controllable. I ended up back at the store I went to for pond fish... turns out they've got a great selection of aquarium plants and all kinds of goodies... Thanks again, Helen (and her dog...er... maybe that should be zoo...) --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

Just playing devil's advocate... what about our fish? We cage them in their tanks. As Barney (my dog) said, in the earlier reply that started this discussion, he likes having free reign of the house but I understand others concerns and their want or need to use a kennel/cage. I do use short-leashing as a training and behavior modification (aka punishment) method, which while it's not in a cage, he is still confined to a very small area so he loses his free reign of the house. I liken it to sending your kids to their bedroom with no TV, telephone, radio or computer, when they are disobedient. I think all the alarm or worry about a fire is a little chicken-little-ish. Can it happen? Sure. Does it happen? Not very often. I was having a similar discussion with my insurance agent concerning the rates for part of my business services... lawn care service. He brought up the fact that a rock could put out someone's eye. On any given weekend for 6-9 months of the year, there are millions of people cutting their grass. I don't see a lot of people wearing patches from losing an eye. Someone mentioned caging their dogs so that the dogs wouldn't get loose in the event of a burglar. That's defeating the purpose of having a dog as a deterrent to burglars. Evidence shows that dogs are the biggest deterrent to a burglar compared to locks, alarms, bars, etc. That's the thing I worry about when I have Barney short-leashed... that he can't get me some burglar DNA (aka skin and blood) when the bum tries to break into my house. Barney doesn't know it but when I have him short-leashed, if he pulls hard enough, like I know he would do if someone was trying to get into my home, the short-leash would come free. I hope he doesn't read this. ;-) Remember in the first paragraph, I did mention fish so I tried to get back on topic. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 8:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot I still don't think an animal should live its life in a cage on the rare chance of a fire. That is awful when it happens, but worse stuff is sure to happen by caging animals. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bobby & Jennifer Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot My next door neighbor is a firefighter, my best friends husband is a firefighter, and we help out a local volunteer firefighter group and have heard so many, sad stories of family crying about there pets because they can't be found, only to find them too late hiding under a bed, under a table, etc because they are terrified. Not all dogs will "run out a door, especially if they can't see it, smell outside etc. I do have a note outside my front and back door stating what room the crates are in, I'm sure if anything does happen, they will be much easier to locate than searching the house over. Also, when we were broke into, my dog was crated and not left to run the streets with the front door being open, since the person who broke in had a gun, and my little Yorkie could have possibly been shot when growling at the person. The rottie, who was not crated was injured by being kicked in the face. For some of us this works, and is not being cruel or inhuman to our pets. Why argue about this, just accept that there are some who do this like it was intended, and others unfortunately do not. There are so many dogs less attended to in outdoor kennels or backyards, chained or un chained, or in some instances people's households running around loose. I could understand if this was a discussion with someone who was not tending to their animals, but it sounds like your defenses are being made to people to genuinely care about their pets. Jenn PS My fish were unharmed during the break in! Hooray! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot The ASPCA will provide anyone who contacts them, with recognizable stickers you place in a front window or door so firefighters will know you have pets inside. The pets don't have to be in cages to be rescued, if they're not in cages they can sometimes get out themselves, or run for the doors once opened by the rescuers. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot We had a fire in the townhouse next door, and they needed to get into our townhouse to ensure the fire did not spread, and to let the smoke out. The neighbors told them of our dogs, and Animal control was able to go in and pull out the crates with the dogs. They had no trouble finding the crates because of the ruckus the dogs made, but they also did not have to worry about being harmed by them either. The dogs are crated for their own safety, not only for that kind of reason, but so they do not get into trouble on their own, and access something they should not. There is a reason why Sneak has that name. FWIW, my other half has her own dog training business. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot I just commented on goldfish a bit ago. It makes me very sad when people leave their pets in cages when they are at work, even if the poor things are "trained" to put up with it. I know people who have crate trained their dogs in a couple of weeks, and they behave incredibly, without being incarcerated when my friends are not home. It's just sad when people don't feel like doing that, and just let the dogs out of their cages in order to appease the humans who have come home. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for your thoughts Beth:-). Now...does anyone have a good fish topic we can discuss? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn't constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don't feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1209 - Release Date: 1/4/2008 12:05 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25315	From: ipartyforfun	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: Totally off topic.. crates...

Helen, You saying that about your pond made me laugh, not at your situation but mine... this summer we did a new pond with a water fall right off the walkway to our front door, VERY beautiful to see when approaching the door. I planted around it and and was sooo proud of myself. A few of my tiny fish dissapeared, and I couldn't figure out why. Then my favorite little koi dissapeared, so I went to investigate further to see if he had jumped out and underneath the "waterfall" part..and was BIT on my face by a cottonmouth snake. Talk about surprised!!!! I'm a little leary about this summer but its too pretty to take out!! Jenn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > ;) first: LOL -- thanks for the good laugh... > > my dog only gets crated when we're going to be out of the house for more than a few minutes -- it's as much for his saftey as that of our stuff. He gets treats going into it, so he doesn't complain one bit (in fact as soon as he sees I'm dressed to go out he starts dancing around, looking at me, looking at the crate, looking at me, looking at the crate...) > > Beverly -- I know what you mean about being uncertain; I have this fear that I'm going to get everything set up and the fish are going to die... I had a horrible experience w/ the outdoor pond. I keep telling myself to be brave, that the indoor tank is much more controllable. I ended up back at the store I went to for pond fish... turns out they've got a great selection of aquarium plants and all kinds of goodies... > > Thanks again, > Helen (and her dog...er... maybe that should be zoo...) > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25316	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/5/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

The room dogs have in an entire house is about the same as I provide my fish in their tanks:) I am not saying let the dogs run wild throughout the city:) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Just playing devil's advocate... what about our fish? We cage them in their tanks. As Barney (my dog) said, in the earlier reply that started this discussion, he likes having free reign of the house but I understand others concerns and their want or need to use a kennel/cage. I do use short-leashing as a training and behavior modification (aka punishment) method, which while it's not in a cage, he is still confined to a very small area so he loses his free reign of the house. I liken it to sending your kids to their bedroom with no TV, telephone, radio or computer, when they are disobedient. I think all the alarm or worry about a fire is a little chicken-little-ish. Can it happen? Sure. Does it happen? Not very often. I was having a similar discussion with my insurance agent concerning the rates for part of my business services... lawn care service. He brought up the fact that a rock could put out someone's eye. On any given weekend for 6-9 months of the year, there are millions of people cutting their grass. I don't see a lot of people wearing patches from losing an eye. Someone mentioned caging their dogs so that the dogs wouldn't get loose in the event of a burglar. That's defeating the purpose of having a dog as a deterrent to burglars. Evidence shows that dogs are the biggest deterrent to a burglar compared to locks, alarms, bars, etc. That's the thing I worry about when I have Barney short-leashed... that he can't get me some burglar DNA (aka skin and blood) when the bum tries to break into my house. Barney doesn't know it but when I have him short-leashed, if he pulls hard enough, like I know he would do if someone was trying to get into my home, the short-leash would come free. I hope he doesn't read this. ;-) Remember in the first paragraph, I did mention fish so I tried to get back on topic. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 8:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot I still don't think an animal should live its life in a cage on the rare chance of a fire. That is awful when it happens, but worse stuff is sure to happen by caging animals. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bobby & Jennifer Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot My next door neighbor is a firefighter, my best friends husband is a firefighter, and we help out a local volunteer firefighter group and have heard so many, sad stories of family crying about there pets because they can't be found, only to find them too late hiding under a bed, under a table, etc because they are terrified. Not all dogs will "run out a door, especially if they can't see it, smell outside etc. I do have a note outside my front and back door stating what room the crates are in, I'm sure if anything does happen, they will be much easier to locate than searching the house over. Also, when we were broke into, my dog was crated and not left to run the streets with the front door being open, since the person who broke in had a gun, and my little Yorkie could have possibly been shot when growling at the person. The rottie, who was not crated was injured by being kicked in the face. For some of us this works, and is not being cruel or inhuman to our pets. Why argue about this, just accept that there are some who do this like it was intended, and others unfortunately do not. There are so many dogs less attended to in outdoor kennels or backyards, chained or un chained, or in some instances people's households running around loose. I could understand if this was a discussion with someone who was not tending to their animals, but it sounds like your defenses are being made to people to genuinely care about their pets. Jenn PS My fish were unharmed during the break in! Hooray! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot The ASPCA will provide anyone who contacts them, with recognizable stickers you place in a front window or door so firefighters will know you have pets inside. The pets don't have to be in cages to be rescued, if they're not in cages they can sometimes get out themselves, or run for the doors once opened by the rescuers. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot We had a fire in the townhouse next door, and they needed to get into our townhouse to ensure the fire did not spread, and to let the smoke out. The neighbors told them of our dogs, and Animal control was able to go in and pull out the crates with the dogs. They had no trouble finding the crates because of the ruckus the dogs made, but they also did not have to worry about being harmed by them either. The dogs are crated for their own safety, not only for that kind of reason, but so they do not get into trouble on their own, and access something they should not. There is a reason why Sneak has that name. FWIW, my other half has her own dog training business. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot I just commented on goldfish a bit ago. It makes me very sad when people leave their pets in cages when they are at work, even if the poor things are "trained" to put up with it. I know people who have crate trained their dogs in a couple of weeks, and they behave incredibly, without being incarcerated when my friends are not home. It's just sad when people don't feel like doing that, and just let the dogs out of their cages in order to appease the humans who have come home. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for your thoughts Beth:-). Now...does anyone have a good fish topic we can discuss? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Thanks for repeating my point! Dogs must be trained, not just thrown in crates every time you leave. And even crate trained dogs shouldn't constantly live in those things every time you step outside. Dogs can be trained to not do a lot of the bad deeds people don't feel like training them to do. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:learning alot Beth, Crate traiing is a very safe, secure and humane method for dogs if they are used properly, which it sounds like the situation you knew of was not. Dogs need "their" space as much as we humans do, if not more so at times. We have crate trained all of our dogs, and at night if they are not already there, we tell them its time to go to their room and go to bed and off they go. It is never used as a punishment spot because its their "safe" place. And thats the mistake alot of people make. As far as putting them in when we are gone, we do that too. They are not left in there excessivebly and are with us when we are home, or when we can take them with us ie grandparents house. Several things to think of when a person puts there animal in a crate wehn they leave, if it is being done properly and the dog is well socialized. If your house is burgularized while you are away, you won't come home to having to hunt down Fido as well as discover what has been taken. (Have been there several years ago) If your house falls victim to fire, tornado etc, your neighbors /emerg personnel will better be able to find Fido's crate than what bed he is hiding under from fear to try and get him out. Its not all bad if used in the correct manner if was intended. Jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1209 - Release Date: 1/4/2008 12:05 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25317	From: Colby	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Electric eels, et. al.

I am interested in getting an aquarium when I get a place of my own, and I was hoping someone could give me some info. There are two particular species that I am interested in. The first is the Chinese Dragonfish, and the other is the electric eel. I already know that for the electric eel, I will need at least a 100 g. tank, but what other specs would the aquarium need? If anyone has ever had, or even handled an electric eel? What requirements would I need for a lionfish? Please help.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25318	From: rcdtrc	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: HI URGENT QUESTION

i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25319	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

You’re not serious that he’s in with piranhas, are you? It sounds more like ammonia poisoning than an attack, though, if those fish are all getting real big for the 55 gallon. I hope the little guy feels better:-) _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25320	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

Oops, I think I misread – it sounds like he IS separate, I think. But it still sounds like classic symptoms from water quality issues. At his size he probably needs at least a 30 gallon to himself – The red veins and tail ripping are signs of bad water, but if he has film over his eyes he may also need an antibiotic treatment to help recover as his water gets better. Goldfish need tons of room, lots of air. Good luck!! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION You’re not serious that he’s in with piranhas, are you? It sounds more like ammonia poisoning than an attack, though, if those fish are all getting real big for the 55 gallon. I hope the little guy feels better:-) _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25321	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

99% of goldfish health problems are a result of water quality issues from keeping them overstocked or in an undersized tank. Tell us more about your set up. I'm presuming you don't have it in with the piranhas. Your 55G is not nearly big enough for four piranha. Even one would need more than a 55G since they grow to 12" each. They are fighting because of basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. They know they can't all live in that 55G tank so one or more of them are trying to kill of the competition for space. Same with the goldfish. If you keep fish in overstocked or undersized tanks, there's not much anyone can do to keep them from getting sick due to the stress resulting in immune system problems in the fish. Unless you have a way to do plumbing so the tanks are getting a constant inflow of fresh water so the fish waste, hormones, etc., wouldn't build up to a level where the fish get stressed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25322	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

Actually, a 6" comet needs a lot more than 30G. Any long-bodied goldfish needs 50-75G as a bare minimum, with lots of filtration and PWC's... and at least a 6' long tank since they are such fast swimmers. They are best off in ponds. Remember that goldfish grow eight times in body mass for each time they double their length. So a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" goldfish or 64 1" goldfish. A 6" goldfish is equal to hundreds of 1" goldfish. We wouldn't put hundreds of 1" goldfish in a 30G tank even though I know that some pet stores do it but they have a lot of filtration and usually a sump system with added water volume and they are only keeping the fish a short period of time in those overstocked conditions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Oops, I think I misread – it sounds like he IS separate, I think. But it still sounds like classic symptoms from water quality issues. At his size he probably needs at least a 30 gallon to himself – The red veins and tail ripping are signs of bad water, but if he has film over his eyes he may also need an antibiotic treatment to help recover as his water gets better. Goldfish need tons of room, lots of air. Good luck!! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION You’re not serious that he’s in with piranhas, are you? It sounds more like ammonia poisoning than an attack, though, if those fish are all getting real big for the 55 gallon. I hope the little guy feels better:-) _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25323	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

Sorry, I only know fancies :) I was thinking of its current size, to get it out of immediate danger. How large would you say fancies need per fish, I want to make sure I am providing enough room:) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Actually, a 6" comet needs a lot more than 30G. Any long-bodied goldfish needs 50-75G as a bare minimum, with lots of filtration and PWC's... and at least a 6' long tank since they are such fast swimmers. They are best off in ponds. Remember that goldfish grow eight times in body mass for each time they double their length. So a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" goldfish or 64 1" goldfish. A 6" goldfish is equal to hundreds of 1" goldfish. We wouldn't put hundreds of 1" goldfish in a 30G tank even though I know that some pet stores do it but they have a lot of filtration and usually a sump system with added water volume and they are only keeping the fish a short period of time in those overstocked conditions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Oops, I think I misread - it sounds like he IS separate, I think. But it still sounds like classic symptoms from water quality issues. At his size he probably needs at least a 30 gallon to himself - The red veins and tail ripping are signs of bad water, but if he has film over his eyes he may also need an antibiotic treatment to help recover as his water gets better. Goldfish need tons of room, lots of air. Good luck!! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION You're not serious that he's in with piranhas, are you? It sounds more like ammonia poisoning than an attack, though, if those fish are all getting real big for the 55 gallon. I hope the little guy feels better:-) _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25324	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: Electric eels, et. al.

You are asking about 3 different fish here. The fist is an Arowana, some species of this fish are protected under CITES. The second, is also a freshwater fish, and the third is a saltwater, or marine, fish. All the fish hae very different requirements to keep, and need large tanks. The Arowana can have other fish with it, so long as they are large enough not to be thought of as lunch. The electric eel is best kept by itself, and the third is also best kept by itself so far as I know--I am not a marine person. I'd suggest you get your feet wet, so to speak, with other, more common, and less demanding, fish before you tackle any of the above, so you get an understanding of fish and how to keep them in an aquarium. You can, if you still want to, move gradually up to these guys over time, as you becoame more experienced, if you still hae the urge to keep them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colby Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Electric eels, et. al. I am interested in getting an aquarium when I get a place of my own, and I was hoping someone could give me some info. There are two particular species that I am interested in. The first is the Chinese Dragonfish, and the other is the electric eel. I already know that for the electric eel, I will need at least a 100 g. tank, but what other specs would the aquarium need? If anyone has ever had, or even handled an electric eel? What requirements would I need for a lionfish? Please help.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25325	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

Technically, they need the same kind of water volume since they have the same body mass as their long bodied cousins but fancies do not swim around as much or as fast as common goldfish or comets so they can get by with a shorter tank. That formula is applicable to fancy goldfish as well. If you have adequate filtration (10X) and do weekly PWC's with gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance, fancies can do well with two of them in a 55G or larger. The frequent 25% PWC's mimics a larger water volume by removing/diluting the DOC's, hormones, etc. The main thing is to start them off in the proper sized tank so they do not get stunted which leads to health issues and fancy goldfish already have enough chance at health issues due to the inbreeding necessary to achieve their fancy status. This is why fancy goldfish usually only have a maximum lifespan of 10-15 years where long bodied goldfish have a 20++ year lifespan. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Sorry, I only know fancies :) I was thinking of its current size, to get it out of immediate danger. How large would you say fancies need per fish, I want to make sure I am providing enough room:) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Actually, a 6" comet needs a lot more than 30G. Any long-bodied goldfish needs 50-75G as a bare minimum, with lots of filtration and PWC's... and at least a 6' long tank since they are such fast swimmers. They are best off in ponds. Remember that goldfish grow eight times in body mass for each time they double their length. So a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" goldfish or 64 1" goldfish. A 6" goldfish is equal to hundreds of 1" goldfish. We wouldn't put hundreds of 1" goldfish in a 30G tank even though I know that some pet stores do it but they have a lot of filtration and usually a sump system with added water volume and they are only keeping the fish a short period of time in those overstocked conditions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Oops, I think I misread - it sounds like he IS separate, I think. But it still sounds like classic symptoms from water quality issues. At his size he probably needs at least a 30 gallon to himself - The red veins and tail ripping are signs of bad water, but if he has film over his eyes he may also need an antibiotic treatment to help recover as his water gets better. Goldfish need tons of room, lots of air. Good luck!! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION You're not serious that he's in with piranhas, are you? It sounds more like ammonia poisoning than an attack, though, if those fish are all getting real big for the 55 gallon. I hope the little guy feels better:-) _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25326	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

So even if you have two inch goldfish, they need a 55 gallon for the two of them, in your opinion? Mine are thriving and growing and very healthy. I plan to get a larger tank when I move, but they share two 50 gallons for now among 16 mostly two inch or smaller goldfish -- one is about three inches. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Technically, they need the same kind of water volume since they have the same body mass as their long bodied cousins but fancies do not swim around as much or as fast as common goldfish or comets so they can get by with a shorter tank. That formula is applicable to fancy goldfish as well. If you have adequate filtration (10X) and do weekly PWC's with gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance, fancies can do well with two of them in a 55G or larger. The frequent 25% PWC's mimics a larger water volume by removing/diluting the DOC's, hormones, etc. The main thing is to start them off in the proper sized tank so they do not get stunted which leads to health issues and fancy goldfish already have enough chance at health issues due to the inbreeding necessary to achieve their fancy status. This is why fancy goldfish usually only have a maximum lifespan of 10-15 years where long bodied goldfish have a 20++ year lifespan. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Sorry, I only know fancies :) I was thinking of its current size, to get it out of immediate danger. How large would you say fancies need per fish, I want to make sure I am providing enough room:) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Actually, a 6" comet needs a lot more than 30G. Any long-bodied goldfish needs 50-75G as a bare minimum, with lots of filtration and PWC's... and at least a 6' long tank since they are such fast swimmers. They are best off in ponds. Remember that goldfish grow eight times in body mass for each time they double their length. So a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" goldfish or 64 1" goldfish. A 6" goldfish is equal to hundreds of 1" goldfish. We wouldn't put hundreds of 1" goldfish in a 30G tank even though I know that some pet stores do it but they have a lot of filtration and usually a sump system with added water volume and they are only keeping the fish a short period of time in those overstocked conditions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Oops, I think I misread - it sounds like he IS separate, I think. But it still sounds like classic symptoms from water quality issues. At his size he probably needs at least a 30 gallon to himself - The red veins and tail ripping are signs of bad water, but if he has film over his eyes he may also need an antibiotic treatment to help recover as his water gets better. Goldfish need tons of room, lots of air. Good luck!! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION You're not serious that he's in with piranhas, are you? It sounds more like ammonia poisoning than an attack, though, if those fish are all getting real big for the 55 gallon. I hope the little guy feels better:-) _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25327	From: Beth Lucas	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

(And also a 30 gallon and a 20 gallon among those guys. I adopted some of them who looked terrible in places like Walmart, etc. where I won't shop now. I know it's not good to get too small a tank, but I try to get 10 gallons per fish for now, and I don't think they will be stunted before I move in 6 months. I have already shopped for a nice 300 gallon tank I want to use for them -- but that may be too small under your assumptions? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION So even if you have two inch goldfish, they need a 55 gallon for the two of them, in your opinion? Mine are thriving and growing and very healthy. I plan to get a larger tank when I move, but they share two 50 gallons for now among 16 mostly two inch or smaller goldfish -- one is about three inches. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Technically, they need the same kind of water volume since they have the same body mass as their long bodied cousins but fancies do not swim around as much or as fast as common goldfish or comets so they can get by with a shorter tank. That formula is applicable to fancy goldfish as well. If you have adequate filtration (10X) and do weekly PWC's with gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance, fancies can do well with two of them in a 55G or larger. The frequent 25% PWC's mimics a larger water volume by removing/diluting the DOC's, hormones, etc. The main thing is to start them off in the proper sized tank so they do not get stunted which leads to health issues and fancy goldfish already have enough chance at health issues due to the inbreeding necessary to achieve their fancy status. This is why fancy goldfish usually only have a maximum lifespan of 10-15 years where long bodied goldfish have a 20++ year lifespan. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Sorry, I only know fancies :) I was thinking of its current size, to get it out of immediate danger. How large would you say fancies need per fish, I want to make sure I am providing enough room:) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Actually, a 6" comet needs a lot more than 30G. Any long-bodied goldfish needs 50-75G as a bare minimum, with lots of filtration and PWC's... and at least a 6' long tank since they are such fast swimmers. They are best off in ponds. Remember that goldfish grow eight times in body mass for each time they double their length. So a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" goldfish or 64 1" goldfish. A 6" goldfish is equal to hundreds of 1" goldfish. We wouldn't put hundreds of 1" goldfish in a 30G tank even though I know that some pet stores do it but they have a lot of filtration and usually a sump system with added water volume and they are only keeping the fish a short period of time in those overstocked conditions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Oops, I think I misread - it sounds like he IS separate, I think. But it still sounds like classic symptoms from water quality issues. At his size he probably needs at least a 30 gallon to himself - The red veins and tail ripping are signs of bad water, but if he has film over his eyes he may also need an antibiotic treatment to help recover as his water gets better. Goldfish need tons of room, lots of air. Good luck!! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION You're not serious that he's in with piranhas, are you? It sounds more like ammonia poisoning than an attack, though, if those fish are all getting real big for the 55 gallon. I hope the little guy feels better:-) _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25328	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

It's "best" to put them in their proper sized home with proper stocking for their expected adult size while they are young so they can grow into the tank without the possibility or likelihood of suffering from stunting issues. With 16 goldfish in two 50G tanks, the goldfish are constantly emitting hormones and when these hormone levels reach a certain level, it stresses the fish and tells them to quit growing... thus starting the stunting process. You can minimize the stunting process by doing frequent PWC's to dilute/remove the hormones so there sensory organs do not realize how cramped they are. Goldfish, like most fish, are supposed to grow the most during their first 1-2 years and should reach 90% of their full adult size in this period but most goldfish end up being stunted to some degree because they are kept in overstocked tanks at the wholesale and retail levels and then many of them continue to be kept in undersized tanks in our homes until we learn better goldfish husbandry. Since you are technically four times overstocked with eight fish in each 50G tank, you should do four times the recommended PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance to compensate. This will keep the hormone levels low enough so that the fish do not realize how technically overcrowded they are. You could also use advanced chemical filtration like Purigen or other advanced chemical filtration which will help with removing the DOC's between PWC's. I recommend Purigen over simple chemical filtration like activated carbon because Purigen can be easily cleaned and recharged using household bleach in a solution so it's much cheaper in the long run. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION So even if you have two inch goldfish, they need a 55 gallon for the two of them, in your opinion? Mine are thriving and growing and very healthy. I plan to get a larger tank when I move, but they share two 50 gallons for now among 16 mostly two inch or smaller goldfish -- one is about three inches. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Technically, they need the same kind of water volume since they have the same body mass as their long bodied cousins but fancies do not swim around as much or as fast as common goldfish or comets so they can get by with a shorter tank. That formula is applicable to fancy goldfish as well. If you have adequate filtration (10X) and do weekly PWC's with gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance, fancies can do well with two of them in a 55G or larger. The frequent 25% PWC's mimics a larger water volume by removing/diluting the DOC's, hormones, etc. The main thing is to start them off in the proper sized tank so they do not get stunted which leads to health issues and fancy goldfish already have enough chance at health issues due to the inbreeding necessary to achieve their fancy status. This is why fancy goldfish usually only have a maximum lifespan of 10-15 years where long bodied goldfish have a 20++ year lifespan. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Sorry, I only know fancies :) I was thinking of its current size, to get it out of immediate danger. How large would you say fancies need per fish, I want to make sure I am providing enough room:) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Actually, a 6" comet needs a lot more than 30G. Any long-bodied goldfish needs 50-75G as a bare minimum, with lots of filtration and PWC's... and at least a 6' long tank since they are such fast swimmers. They are best off in ponds. Remember that goldfish grow eight times in body mass for each time they double their length. So a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" goldfish or 64 1" goldfish. A 6" goldfish is equal to hundreds of 1" goldfish. We wouldn't put hundreds of 1" goldfish in a 30G tank even though I know that some pet stores do it but they have a lot of filtration and usually a sump system with added water volume and they are only keeping the fish a short period of time in those overstocked conditions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Oops, I think I misread - it sounds like he IS separate, I think. But it still sounds like classic symptoms from water quality issues. At his size he probably needs at least a 30 gallon to himself - The red veins and tail ripping are signs of bad water, but if he has film over his eyes he may also need an antibiotic treatment to help recover as his water gets better. Goldfish need tons of room, lots of air. Good luck!! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION You're not serious that he's in with piranhas, are you? It sounds more like ammonia poisoning than an attack, though, if those fish are all getting real big for the 55 gallon. I hope the little guy feels better:-) _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25329	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

Once they fish reach adult size, they can technically be a little overstocked as long as proper tank maintenance is performed so you may well be able to have all of the fish in a 300G tank, although I wouldn't recommend it. It's in the critical early months and years where it's important not to overstock them so they do not get stunted. A stunted fish will have a much shorter lifespan and likely have many more health problems than a non-stunted fish. Once the fish reach adulthood, the overcrowding will still cause stress issues but if they weren't stunted in their early months/years, they will generally be healthier fish and their immune systems will better be able to handle any health issues as a result of the stress. It's best not to overstock and keep things simple for you and the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION (And also a 30 gallon and a 20 gallon among those guys. I adopted some of them who looked terrible in places like Walmart, etc. where I won't shop now. I know it's not good to get too small a tank, but I try to get 10 gallons per fish for now, and I don't think they will be stunted before I move in 6 months. I have already shopped for a nice 300 gallon tank I want to use for them -- but that may be too small under your assumptions? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION So even if you have two inch goldfish, they need a 55 gallon for the two of them, in your opinion? Mine are thriving and growing and very healthy. I plan to get a larger tank when I move, but they share two 50 gallons for now among 16 mostly two inch or smaller goldfish -- one is about three inches. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Technically, they need the same kind of water volume since they have the same body mass as their long bodied cousins but fancies do not swim around as much or as fast as common goldfish or comets so they can get by with a shorter tank. That formula is applicable to fancy goldfish as well. If you have adequate filtration (10X) and do weekly PWC's with gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance, fancies can do well with two of them in a 55G or larger. The frequent 25% PWC's mimics a larger water volume by removing/diluting the DOC's, hormones, etc. The main thing is to start them off in the proper sized tank so they do not get stunted which leads to health issues and fancy goldfish already have enough chance at health issues due to the inbreeding necessary to achieve their fancy status. This is why fancy goldfish usually only have a maximum lifespan of 10-15 years where long bodied goldfish have a 20++ year lifespan. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Sorry, I only know fancies :) I was thinking of its current size, to get it out of immediate danger. How large would you say fancies need per fish, I want to make sure I am providing enough room:) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Actually, a 6" comet needs a lot more than 30G. Any long-bodied goldfish needs 50-75G as a bare minimum, with lots of filtration and PWC's... and at least a 6' long tank since they are such fast swimmers. They are best off in ponds. Remember that goldfish grow eight times in body mass for each time they double their length. So a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" goldfish or 64 1" goldfish. A 6" goldfish is equal to hundreds of 1" goldfish. We wouldn't put hundreds of 1" goldfish in a 30G tank even though I know that some pet stores do it but they have a lot of filtration and usually a sump system with added water volume and they are only keeping the fish a short period of time in those overstocked conditions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Oops, I think I misread - it sounds like he IS separate, I think. But it still sounds like classic symptoms from water quality issues. At his size he probably needs at least a 30 gallon to himself - The red veins and tail ripping are signs of bad water, but if he has film over his eyes he may also need an antibiotic treatment to help recover as his water gets better. Goldfish need tons of room, lots of air. Good luck!! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION You're not serious that he's in with piranhas, are you? It sounds more like ammonia poisoning than an attack, though, if those fish are all getting real big for the 55 gallon. I hope the little guy feels better:-) _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25330	From: Angela	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [AquaticLife] Electric eels, et. al.

Lionfish can be kept with other fish, but you have to be very careful what you mix them with. Most often they seem to be kept alone or with other lionfish in a reef tank. Saltwater is very complicated and gets VERY expensive quickly.. Even with a small tank. Small is NOT the way to start saltwater either. I have had a 90gal reef tank with a 55gal sump for years and finally just took it down last year. Just too much work and money to keep up with right now. Smaller tanks are honestly worse as less water volume is harder to keep stable. Do a LOT of serious research before you get into salterwater and make sure it's a commitment you can make. Do NOT go to your local LFS and have them guide you, in most cases you will not get good advice. Good luck! Angela -------Original Message------- From: Steve Szabo Date: 01/06/08 15:16:52 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] RE: [AquaticLife] Electric eels, et. al. You are asking about 3 different fish here. The fist is an Arowana, some species of this fish are protected under CITES. The second, is also a freshwater fish, and the third is a saltwater, or marine, fish. All the fish hae very different requirements to keep, and need large tanks. The Arowana can have other fish with it, so long as they are large enough not to be thought of as lunch. The electric eel is best kept by itself, and the third is also best kept by itself so far as I know--I am not a marine person. I'd suggest you get your feet wet, so to speak, with other, more common, and less demanding, fish before you tackle any of the above, so you get an understanding of fish and how to keep them in an aquarium. You can, if you still want to, move gradually up to these guys over time, as you becoame more experienced, if you still hae the urge to keep them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colby Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Electric eels, et. al. I am interested in getting an aquarium when I get a place of my own, and I was hoping someone could give me some info. There are two particular species that I am interested in. The first is the Chinese Dragonfish, and the other is the electric eel. I already know that for the electric eel, I will need at least a 100 g. tank, but what other specs would the aquarium need? If anyone has ever had, or even handled an electric eel? What requirements would I need for a lionfish? Please help. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25331	From: diane none	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

i was told it is better when buying fish to buy 3 or more at 1 time so they adjust better to their new home. (they are less likely to fight if they have their "friends" with them) also couldnt the film on the fish be ick? rcdtrc <rcdtrc@...> wrote: i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25332	From: William	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

It is not always best to buy several of the same type of fish so that they can keep company. A good case in point is the Betta where they do not like to have other male bettas around them. Yes there are several types of fish that are called schooling and they do best in groups of three or more but not all fish are schooling fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, diane none <diane_20007@...> wrote: > > i was told it is better when buying fish to buy 3 or more at 1 time so they adjust better to their new home. (they are less likely to fight if they have their "friends" with them) also couldnt the film on the fish be ick? > > rcdtrc <rcdtrc@...> wrote: i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was > now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now > all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance > over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish > attacked it > in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the > 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the > others are almost 3 inches > when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him > so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok > but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so > i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is > starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting > and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day > thank you > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25333	From: Kit Mus	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

WHAT DO I DO TO GET UNSUBSCRIBED?? I have sent email to unsubscribe and have replied, but no action?? "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Once they fish reach adult size, they can technically be a little overstocked as long as proper tank maintenance is performed so you may well be able to have all of the fish in a 300G tank, although I wouldn't recommend it. It's in the critical early months and years where it's important not to overstock them so they do not get stunted. A stunted fish will have a much shorter lifespan and likely have many more health problems than a non-stunted fish. Once the fish reach adulthood, the overcrowding will still cause stress issues but if they weren't stunted in their early months/years, they will generally be healthier fish and their immune systems will better be able to handle any health issues as a result of the stress. It's best not to overstock and keep things simple for you and the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION (And also a 30 gallon and a 20 gallon among those guys. I adopted some of them who looked terrible in places like Walmart, etc. where I won't shop now. I know it's not good to get too small a tank, but I try to get 10 gallons per fish for now, and I don't think they will be stunted before I move in 6 months. I have already shopped for a nice 300 gallon tank I want to use for them -- but that may be too small under your assumptions? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION So even if you have two inch goldfish, they need a 55 gallon for the two of them, in your opinion? Mine are thriving and growing and very healthy. I plan to get a larger tank when I move, but they share two 50 gallons for now among 16 mostly two inch or smaller goldfish -- one is about three inches. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Technically, they need the same kind of water volume since they have the same body mass as their long bodied cousins but fancies do not swim around as much or as fast as common goldfish or comets so they can get by with a shorter tank. That formula is applicable to fancy goldfish as well. If you have adequate filtration (10X) and do weekly PWC's with gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance, fancies can do well with two of them in a 55G or larger. The frequent 25% PWC's mimics a larger water volume by removing/diluting the DOC's, hormones, etc. The main thing is to start them off in the proper sized tank so they do not get stunted which leads to health issues and fancy goldfish already have enough chance at health issues due to the inbreeding necessary to achieve their fancy status. This is why fancy goldfish usually only have a maximum lifespan of 10-15 years where long bodied goldfish have a 20++ year lifespan. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Sorry, I only know fancies :) I was thinking of its current size, to get it out of immediate danger. How large would you say fancies need per fish, I want to make sure I am providing enough room:) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Actually, a 6" comet needs a lot more than 30G. Any long-bodied goldfish needs 50-75G as a bare minimum, with lots of filtration and PWC's... and at least a 6' long tank since they are such fast swimmers. They are best off in ponds. Remember that goldfish grow eight times in body mass for each time they double their length. So a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" goldfish or 64 1" goldfish. A 6" goldfish is equal to hundreds of 1" goldfish. We wouldn't put hundreds of 1" goldfish in a 30G tank even though I know that some pet stores do it but they have a lot of filtration and usually a sump system with added water volume and they are only keeping the fish a short period of time in those overstocked conditions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Oops, I think I misread - it sounds like he IS separate, I think. But it still sounds like classic symptoms from water quality issues. At his size he probably needs at least a 30 gallon to himself - The red veins and tail ripping are signs of bad water, but if he has film over his eyes he may also need an antibiotic treatment to help recover as his water gets better. Goldfish need tons of room, lots of air. Good luck!! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION You're not serious that he's in with piranhas, are you? It sounds more like ammonia poisoning than an attack, though, if those fish are all getting real big for the 55 gallon. I hope the little guy feels better:-) _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25334	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

There is no rule about "3 or more". Some fish need to be in schools of six or more. Some fish in shoals of five or more. Others in shoals of three or more. Other fish as mated pairs and yet other fish need to be isolated. Each species has it's own general rules but the fish don't always read the same material that we do so sometimes they don't follow the rules either. The best thing to do is read a few reputable profiles on the fish you are interested in and then prepare accordingly. One good source of reputable profiles is http://fish.mongabay.com where you can search by common or scientific name. I like Mongabay profiles because they also recommend minimum tank sizes and give species compatibility information so you will know if they are compatible with other fish that you have or may be considering. For catfish, you can use PlanetCatfish.com or PlecoFanatics.com. For fish that you do not find on Mongabay or the other sites, then put in the 'species name' of the fish with the word 'profile' in a Google search and you will come up with dozens of profiles. You will have to filter through the good ones and the bad ones out there. Do not generally trust retail sites for profile or care sheet information. They almost always recommend less than what is needed. They are partially motivated to sell fish so they may not want to tell someone that is buying a goldfish that they need a 55G tank when they can sell them a 10G goldfish starter kit knowing they will become attached to the goldfish and have to come back and buy the 55G tank set up later on. Unfortunately, the goldfish gets stunted living in the 10G starter tank and will never live out it's full potential. Last but not least, you can always ask out here and I'm sure one of the members can give you good advice. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of diane none Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 5:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i was told it is better when buying fish to buy 3 or more at 1 time so they adjust better to their new home. (they are less likely to fight if they have their "friends" with them) also couldnt the film on the fish be ick? rcdtrc <rcdtrc@... <mailto:rcdtrc%40yahoo.com> > wrote: i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25335	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: HI URGENT QUESTION

Send an email from the registered email account to AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com and Yahoo's automated system will unsubscribe you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kit Mus Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 5:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION WHAT DO I DO TO GET UNSUBSCRIBED?? I have sent email to unsubscribe and have replied, but no action?? "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: Once they fish reach adult size, they can technically be a little overstocked as long as proper tank maintenance is performed so you may well be able to have all of the fish in a 300G tank, although I wouldn't recommend it. It's in the critical early months and years where it's important not to overstock them so they do not get stunted. A stunted fish will have a much shorter lifespan and likely have many more health problems than a non-stunted fish. Once the fish reach adulthood, the overcrowding will still cause stress issues but if they weren't stunted in their early months/years, they will generally be healthier fish and their immune systems will better be able to handle any health issues as a result of the stress. It's best not to overstock and keep things simple for you and the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION (And also a 30 gallon and a 20 gallon among those guys. I adopted some of them who looked terrible in places like Walmart, etc. where I won't shop now. I know it's not good to get too small a tank, but I try to get 10 gallons per fish for now, and I don't think they will be stunted before I move in 6 months. I have already shopped for a nice 300 gallon tank I want to use for them -- but that may be too small under your assumptions? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION So even if you have two inch goldfish, they need a 55 gallon for the two of them, in your opinion? Mine are thriving and growing and very healthy. I plan to get a larger tank when I move, but they share two 50 gallons for now among 16 mostly two inch or smaller goldfish -- one is about three inches. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Technically, they need the same kind of water volume since they have the same body mass as their long bodied cousins but fancies do not swim around as much or as fast as common goldfish or comets so they can get by with a shorter tank. That formula is applicable to fancy goldfish as well. If you have adequate filtration (10X) and do weekly PWC's with gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance, fancies can do well with two of them in a 55G or larger. The frequent 25% PWC's mimics a larger water volume by removing/diluting the DOC's, hormones, etc. The main thing is to start them off in the proper sized tank so they do not get stunted which leads to health issues and fancy goldfish already have enough chance at health issues due to the inbreeding necessary to achieve their fancy status. This is why fancy goldfish usually only have a maximum lifespan of 10-15 years where long bodied goldfish have a 20++ year lifespan. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Sorry, I only know fancies :) I was thinking of its current size, to get it out of immediate danger. How large would you say fancies need per fish, I want to make sure I am providing enough room:) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Actually, a 6" comet needs a lot more than 30G. Any long-bodied goldfish needs 50-75G as a bare minimum, with lots of filtration and PWC's... and at least a 6' long tank since they are such fast swimmers. They are best off in ponds. Remember that goldfish grow eight times in body mass for each time they double their length. So a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" goldfish or 64 1" goldfish. A 6" goldfish is equal to hundreds of 1" goldfish. We wouldn't put hundreds of 1" goldfish in a 30G tank even though I know that some pet stores do it but they have a lot of filtration and usually a sump system with added water volume and they are only keeping the fish a short period of time in those overstocked conditions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION Oops, I think I misread - it sounds like he IS separate, I think. But it still sounds like classic symptoms from water quality issues. At his size he probably needs at least a 30 gallon to himself - The red veins and tail ripping are signs of bad water, but if he has film over his eyes he may also need an antibiotic treatment to help recover as his water gets better. Goldfish need tons of room, lots of air. Good luck!! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Beth Lucas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION You're not serious that he's in with piranhas, are you? It sounds more like ammonia poisoning than an attack, though, if those fish are all getting real big for the 55 gallon. I hope the little guy feels better:-) _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25336	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: Adding New Fish in Multiples

There is a guideline for African cichlids that if you are adding fish to an established tank, add more than one (the more the better) because a single new fish might be singled out by the established community for harassment. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION There is no rule about "3 or more". Some fish need to be in schools of six or more. Some fish in shoals of five or more. Others in shoals of three or more. Other fish as mated pairs and yet other fish need to be isolated. Each species has it's own general rules but the fish don't always read the same material that we do so sometimes they don't follow the rules either. The best thing to do is read a few reputable profiles on the fish you are interested in and then prepare accordingly. One good source of reputable profiles is http://fish.mongabay.com where you can search by common or scientific name. I like Mongabay profiles because they also recommend minimum tank sizes and give species compatibility information so you will know if they are compatible with other fish that you have or may be considering. For catfish, you can use PlanetCatfish.com or PlecoFanatics.com. For fish that you do not find on Mongabay or the other sites, then put in the 'species name' of the fish with the word 'profile' in a Google search and you will come up with dozens of profiles. You will have to filter through the good ones and the bad ones out there. Do not generally trust retail sites for profile or care sheet information. They almost always recommend less than what is needed. They are partially motivated to sell fish so they may not want to tell someone that is buying a goldfish that they need a 55G tank when they can sell them a 10G goldfish starter kit knowing they will become attached to the goldfish and have to come back and buy the 55G tank set up later on. Unfortunately, the goldfish gets stunted living in the 10G starter tank and will never live out it's full potential. Last but not least, you can always ask out here and I'm sure one of the members can give you good advice. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of diane none Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 5:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION i was told it is better when buying fish to buy 3 or more at 1 time so they adjust better to their new home. (they are less likely to fight if they have their "friends" with them) also couldnt the film on the fish be ick? rcdtrc <rcdtrc@... <mailto:rcdtrc%40yahoo.com> > wrote: i have a 6 inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry because i feed them twice a day thank you --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25337	From: William	Date: 1/6/2008
Subject: Re: Adding New Fish in Multiples

Something to remember when adding new fish to a tank with aggressive fish is to feed the fish (while acclimating the new fish) and when the acclimation is done then you will add the new fish and turn out the lights. But before you do this you should rearrange the tank so that the fish that are in there will have to sort out a new home place. It somewhat puts all the fish on equal footing. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > There is a guideline for African cichlids that if you are adding fish to an > established tank, add more than one (the more the better) because a single > new fish might be singled out by the established community for harassment. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 8:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION > > There is no rule about "3 or more". Some fish need to be in schools of six > or more. Some fish in shoals of five or more. Others in shoals of three or > more. Other fish as mated pairs and yet other fish need to be isolated. > > Each species has it's own general rules but the fish don't always read the > same material that we do so sometimes they don't follow the rules either. > > The best thing to do is read a few reputable profiles on the fish you are > interested in and then prepare accordingly. One good source of reputable > profiles is http://fish.mongabay.com where you can search by common or > scientific name. I like Mongabay profiles because they also recommend > minimum tank sizes and give species compatibility information so you will > know if they are compatible with other fish that you have or may be > considering. > > For catfish, you can use PlanetCatfish.com or PlecoFanatics.com. For fish > that you do not find on Mongabay or the other sites, then put in the > 'species name' of the fish with the word 'profile' in a Google search and > you will come up with dozens of profiles. You will have to filter through > the good ones and the bad ones out there. > > Do not generally trust retail sites for profile or care sheet information. > They almost always recommend less than what is needed. They are partially > motivated to sell fish so they may not want to tell someone that is buying a > goldfish that they need a 55G tank when they can sell them a 10G goldfish > starter kit knowing they will become attached to the goldfish and have to > come back and buy the 55G tank set up later on. Unfortunately, the goldfish > gets stunted living in the 10G starter tank and will never live out it's > full potential. > > Last but not least, you can always ask out here and I'm sure one of the > members can give you good advice. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of diane none > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 5:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HI URGENT QUESTION > > i was told it is better when buying fish to buy 3 or more at 1 time so they > adjust better to their new home. (they are less likely to fight if they have > their "friends" with them) also couldnt the film on the fish be ick? > > rcdtrc <rcdtrc@... <mailto:rcdtrc%40yahoo.com> > wrote: i have a 6 > inch comet goldfish that is white or at least was now it has turned redish > its veins or something seem to be visible now all over its body it also > seems to have some white film or substance over its eyes and its tail seems > to be damaged like another fish attacked it in addition i have 4 RBP's red > belly piranhas in a 55 gallon tank the 4th is the newest and smaller than > the rest around 2 inches and the others are almost 3 inches when i > introduced him to the tank they attacked him so i separated him so he could > heal once he did i let him back in and everything seemed ok but the next day > him n 2 others had parts of their tail missing and so i had to separate them > again im starting to think the small one is starting the attacks and today > the other three seemed to be fighting and its not like they are hungry > because i feed them twice a day thank you > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 > 11:46 AM > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25338	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/7/2008
Subject: overstocking

I just wanted to say thanks to Lenny for that last one...even though I didn't ask the initial question (this time ;) and even though I'm not exactly over-stocking my tank, I know it might have been better with a few more gallons but only have so big a living room (tank ended up not in front of window; room had to be re-arranged, husband rolling eyes... sigh. He's a good egg.) Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks because I know by some standards the 100 gallon tank will be overcrowded even with only two large fish -- which is the plan, two and only two (and by other standards it will be just fine, there's a lot of conflict on the other fish list I'm on), but you're the first person to talk about exactly why fish start to "feel" overcrowded even if by all accounts they seem to have enough room to move around. Helen <<Goldfish, like most fish, are supposed to grow the most during their first 1-2 years and should reach 90% of their full adult size in this period but most goldfish end up being stunted to some degree because they are kept in overstocked tanks at the wholesale and retail levels and then many of them continue to be kept in undersized tanks in our homes until we learn better goldfish husbandry. Since you are technically four times overstocked with eight fish in each 50G tank, you should do four times the recommended PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance to compensate. This will keep the hormone levels low enough so that the fish do not realize how technically overcrowded they are. You could also use advanced chemical filtration like Purigen or other advanced chemical filtration which will help with removing the DOC's between PWC's. I recommend Purigen over simple chemical filtration like activated carbon because Purigen can be easily cleaned and recharged using household bleach in a solution so it's much cheaper in the long run. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com >> --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25339	From: Kevin	Date: 1/7/2008
Subject: Re: learning alot

I concur. This group is very friendly and informative. And I find it quite interesting to read the different posts and interactions. Very informative group. Thanks! > Well guys just want to say how much I appreciate all the knowledge and > time everyone donates on this site. Especially Lenny, you've answered > my posts everytime and I really appreciate it. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25340	From: Roberto Marchesini	Date: 1/7/2008
Subject: Hi everyone!

Hi listers! New to the group here! By now I only own a male beta, but I am pretty interested on 4 eyes and american cyclids culture.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25341	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi everyone!

Welcome to the group. If by American, you are including North and South, you might want to start near the beginning by following this link: http://books.google.com/books?id=qIwOAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA39&dq=ted+betty+aquarium+chameleon&lr=&as_brr=0 For sure the above will wrap in some, if not most mail readers, so here is the TinyURL to use so you don't have to do the copy/paste thing: http://tinyurl.com/25dk3o Read "Ted and Betty, The Chameleon Fishes". The fish written about have the scientific name of _ Australoheros facetus_ now. Cichlids are interesting fish, as are bettas. As you move from bettas to other fish in larger quarters, you will find that many things you have learned keeping betas will apply to other fish as well. Above all, be sure to research every step of the way. You need not go back to an October 1895 periodical, for information, as the behaviors of this fish are adequately covered in more recent publications, but it is kind of fun. FWIW, there are mentions of this fish in earlier America publications, but this is the earliest one available online for all to read. Don't be afraid to ask questions here, and elsewhere, as this is a good method of gathering information. With aquariums and fish we are not only dealing with a life form not like us, but an alien environment as well, and there is lots to learn. \\Steve// While there may be no such thing as a dumb question, there are certainly dumb answers. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roberto Marchesini Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 1:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi everyone! Hi listers! New to the group here! By now I only own a male beta, but I am pretty interested on 4 eyes and american cyclids culture. Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25342	From: taman.airku	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Hi !

Hi Every One ! I'am from Indonesia. I'am new in this forum and i'd like to share all about aquarium, especially about aquarium design. Now, my friend and i are planning to make bussiness about aquarium design in our town (Bandung) So, i will appreciate if u wanna share about aquarium design with me. Thanks :) Best Regards, Taman Air

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25343	From: brian_patrick_pierce06	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: looking for advice with my betta

Hi. I'm new to the group, my name is Brian, its nice to meet all of you. anyway, I recently purchased a crowntail betta male from Petco. I got him a week ago saturday, so I've had him for about 10 days now. He's not eating. before I got him, I filled a 2.5 gallon tank with tap water and then treated it with "Betta-Safe". I let that sit out for a day. the next day, I picked up Atlas (my new fish) and brought him home, at which point I let him into his new tank. now before getting Atlas, I had little knowledge about Bettas and had believed that there wasn't really much to know. I had Captain Morgan, my last betta for 5 years. I had inherited him and he was already in a tank (2.5 gallons) and had food that he was being fed, so I just figured he seemed fine so he must be fine. I changed the water once a week and fed him 4 pellets every night. anyway, Atlas has taught me that there is more to know about fish than I ever imagined. I tried to feed him a few times each day, and he never even seemed interested. after about 5 days, I called Petco to ask what I should do. They told me that he's fine and that I should tease him with the food, sort of poke at it in the water. that didn't work. I then called another specialty aquatic life store because I figured that they would probably know a bit more about him than the teenagers at petco. they told me that it may be a temperature issue, so I bought a thermometer. his temp was approx 64 degrees (F). they told me that this is a bit cold for a betta and to shine a lamp on the tank. after a few days of that not increasing the temp, I did some research and bought an aquarium heater (7.5 watt hydor mini heater). I also tried some betta revive. yesterday, about 9 days after getting Atlas, he seems like he wants to eat. he'll take a piece of food (I've tried pellets and bloodworms) and then just spit it out. Last night however, he did keep a bloodworm down, but after he ate it, he did this odd sort of head-bobbing thing. today he hasn't taken any food. now I'm not 100% sure how much to feed him, he is very small, about half the size of Captain Morgan was. I think he's still pretty young. he seems to be more interested in the worms than the pellets. is it okay to feed just freeze dried bloodworms? also, if he doesn't take food again, how long can he go without?? thank you all for any advice you may have

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25344	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: looking for advice with my betta

It's good that you got the heater but I believe those types of heaters will only raise the water temp a few degrees over room temp so you may need to do more. What has the temperature been throughout the course of a day. Test it every few hours and post your findings. You want the water temperature to remain as consistent as possible so do not rely on a light for heating since the water will then drop in temp when the light is off at night. Also, it's not good to do 100% water changes as that can change the water parameters (pH, temp, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, hardness, etc.) too much, too fast, and that is not good for fish either. For a 2.5G with one Betta, you would probably be better doing twice weekly 1G PWC's (partial water changes). This would be a 40% PWC and even that is a little on the high side so if you could do 2-3 .5G PWC's a week, that would be even better. The reason I was leaning towards a 1G PWC is that you would be better able to vacuum more of the detritus (fish waste, uneaten food, etc.) out of the substrate. The one other thing that would help your little tank out a lot would be a small filter system... usually the kind that would sit inside the tank. They have them for around $5.00 to $10.00 in my area. They are operated by a small air pump (included) and this would create a little water circulation as well as filtering the water. This would keep the little tank "cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) which would keep the ammonia/nitrite at 0.0ppm so the fish does not have to deal with those toxins. Another thing you could do is add a couple of small live plants which would add O2 to the water and help remove the bad things like ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. I use to put a few stalks of Anacharis in my Betta tank as it is easy to grow and grows fast so it sucks up more nutrients. Bettas really like live plants or some kind of soft broad leaf silk plants and will lay on them like a hammock when resting. Bettas have very small stomachs so they do not need much food. Only put one piece of food at a time and if it does not eat, do not add more as this will cause water quality issues. Fish can go a couple of weeks without eating so it's not a major issue yet. If you are doing 100% water changes, you could be causing osmoregulatory shock issues to him by changing the water parameters too much and he may not be eating due to these shock issues which is another reason for doing more frequent but smaller PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of brian_patrick_pierce06 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 10:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] looking for advice with my betta Hi. I'm new to the group, my name is Brian, its nice to meet all of you. anyway, I recently purchased a crowntail betta male from Petco. I got him a week ago saturday, so I've had him for about 10 days now. He's not eating. before I got him, I filled a 2.5 gallon tank with tap water and then treated it with "Betta-Safe". I let that sit out for a day. the next day, I picked up Atlas (my new fish) and brought him home, at which point I let him into his new tank. now before getting Atlas, I had little knowledge about Bettas and had believed that there wasn't really much to know. I had Captain Morgan, my last betta for 5 years. I had inherited him and he was already in a tank (2.5 gallons) and had food that he was being fed, so I just figured he seemed fine so he must be fine. I changed the water once a week and fed him 4 pellets every night. anyway, Atlas has taught me that there is more to know about fish than I ever imagined. I tried to feed him a few times each day, and he never even seemed interested. after about 5 days, I called Petco to ask what I should do. They told me that he's fine and that I should tease him with the food, sort of poke at it in the water. that didn't work. I then called another specialty aquatic life store because I figured that they would probably know a bit more about him than the teenagers at petco. they told me that it may be a temperature issue, so I bought a thermometer. his temp was approx 64 degrees (F). they told me that this is a bit cold for a betta and to shine a lamp on the tank. after a few days of that not increasing the temp, I did some research and bought an aquarium heater (7.5 watt hydor mini heater). I also tried some betta revive. yesterday, about 9 days after getting Atlas, he seems like he wants to eat. he'll take a piece of food (I've tried pellets and bloodworms) and then just spit it out. Last night however, he did keep a bloodworm down, but after he ate it, he did this odd sort of head-bobbing thing. today he hasn't taken any food. now I'm not 100% sure how much to feed him, he is very small, about half the size of Captain Morgan was. I think he's still pretty young. he seems to be more interested in the worms than the pellets. is it okay to feed just freeze dried bloodworms? also, if he doesn't take food again, how long can he go without?? thank you all for any advice you may have No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25345	From: Nur Kahnert	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: looking for advice with my betta

You might have bougth an old/sick fish already from Petco, the way they treatment is not really impressive at all. You still got 4 days to return it. within the two week exchange. --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > It's good that you got the heater but I believe > those types of heaters will > only raise the water temp a few degrees over room > temp so you may need to do > more. What has the temperature been throughout the > course of a day. Test > it every few hours and post your findings. You want > the water temperature > to remain as consistent as possible so do not rely > on a light for heating > since the water will then drop in temp when the > light is off at night. > > Also, it's not good to do 100% water changes as that > can change the water > parameters (pH, temp, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, > hardness, etc.) too much, > too fast, and that is not good for fish either. For > a 2.5G with one Betta, > you would probably be better doing twice weekly 1G > PWC's (partial water > changes). This would be a 40% PWC and even that is > a little on the high > side so if you could do 2-3 .5G PWC's a week, that > would be even better. > The reason I was leaning towards a 1G PWC is that > you would be better able > to vacuum more of the detritus (fish waste, uneaten > food, etc.) out of the > substrate. > > The one other thing that would help your little tank > out a lot would be a > small filter system... usually the kind that would > sit inside the tank. > They have them for around $5.00 to $10.00 in my > area. They are operated by > a small air pump (included) and this would create a > little water circulation > as well as filtering the water. This would keep the > little tank "cycled" > (The Nitrogen Cycle) which would keep the > ammonia/nitrite at 0.0ppm so the > fish does not have to deal with those toxins. > > Another thing you could do is add a couple of small > live plants which would > add O2 to the water and help remove the bad things > like > ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. I use to put a few stalks > of Anacharis in my Betta > tank as it is easy to grow and grows fast so it > sucks up more nutrients. > Bettas really like live plants or some kind of soft > broad leaf silk plants > and will lay on them like a hammock when resting. > > Bettas have very small stomachs so they do not need > much food. Only put one > piece of food at a time and if it does not eat, do > not add more as this will > cause water quality issues. Fish can go a couple of > weeks without eating so > it's not a major issue yet. If you are doing 100% > water changes, you could > be causing osmoregulatory shock issues to him by > changing the water > parameters too much and he may not be eating due to > these shock issues which > is another reason for doing more frequent but > smaller PWC's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of brian_patrick_pierce06 > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 10:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] looking for advice with my > betta > > Hi. I'm new to the group, my name is Brian, its nice > to meet all of you. > anyway, I recently purchased a crowntail betta male > from Petco. I got him a > week ago saturday, so I've had him for about 10 days > now. He's not eating. > before I got him, I filled a 2.5 gallon tank with > tap water and then treated > it with "Betta-Safe". I let that sit out for a day. > the next day, I picked > up Atlas (my new fish) and brought him home, at > which point I let him into > his new tank. > > now before getting Atlas, I had little knowledge > about Bettas and had > believed that there wasn't really much to know. I > had Captain Morgan, my > last betta for 5 years. I had inherited him and he > was already in a tank > (2.5 gallons) and had food that he was being fed, so > I just figured he > seemed fine so he must be fine. I changed the water > once a week and fed him > 4 pellets every night. > > anyway, Atlas has taught me that there is more to > know about fish than I > ever imagined. I tried to feed him a few times each > day, and he never even > seemed interested. after about > 5 days, I called Petco to ask what I should do. They > told me that he's fine > and that I should tease him with the food, sort of > poke at it in the water. > that didn't work. I then called another specialty > aquatic life store because > I figured that they would probably know a bit more > about him than the > teenagers at petco. they told me that it may be a > temperature issue, so I > bought a thermometer. his temp was approx 64 degrees > (F). they told me that > this is a bit cold for a betta and to shine a lamp > on the tank. after a few > days of that not increasing the temp, I did some > research and bought an > aquarium heater (7.5 watt hydor mini heater). I also > tried some betta > revive. > > yesterday, about 9 days after getting Atlas, he > seems like he wants to eat. > he'll take a piece of food (I've tried pellets and > bloodworms) and then just > spit it out. > Last night however, he did keep a bloodworm down, > but after he ate it, he > did this odd sort of head-bobbing thing. today he > hasn't taken any food. > > now I'm not 100% sure how much to feed him, he is > very small, about half the > size of Captain Morgan was. I think he's still > pretty young. > > he seems to be more interested in the worms than the > pellets. is it okay to > feed just freeze dried bloodworms? > > also, if he doesn't take food again, how long can he > go without?? > > thank you all for any advice you may have > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - > Release Date: 1/7/2008 > 9:14 AM > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25346	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Endlers Question

I recently purchased two pair of Endler's for my 55-gallon established (for around 10 years) heavily planted tank. I am amazed at the size difference between the males and females - the females are at least twice the size of the males. Is this common? Just wondering if I got different ages because the gals are so much bigger? I am also very happy because I am getting a 29 gallon tank, complete with stand and all accessories, for free tomorrow. I placed a WANTED post on my local Freecycle list and somebody had this setup in their basement gathering dust (though they had it set up six months ago with no leakage). I always check Craigslist but have not had any luck there. Maybe it is karma - I recently posted an OFFER on another local Freecycle list giving away a 20 gallon high tank that developed a leak around six inches up. I figured somebody could use it for frogs or something. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25347	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Small Planted Tank Question

I came across a really good deal last week (clearance sale) and made what is probably a silly buy. It is just a cute one-gallon tank. I went ahead, added established water and gravel from my 55 gallon tank, added some live plants and got ready to install the cover only to find out that there is no light fixture for the top. DARN! I decided to keep it anyways (being that I had it all set up) and added a male Betta to it (I don't think one gallon is great for a Betta but it is certainly better than those nasty bowls at the fish stores). Now because of the live plants, I am thinking I should keep it near a window to get all the light that it can being that I can't supply it via the hood. Is this a good idea or am I asking for algae? I could bring it to work and set it under an overhead cupboard (Cubicle Hell) flourascent light but would prefer to keep it at home. Any suggestions? One more thing: How do ya'll pronounce Betta? I have always pronounced it Bet Ta (one word of course). I have been corrected by so many LFS people though that it is Bet A (one word). To me Beta should only have one T though (as in Beta/VHS). Who is right? Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25349	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Endlers Question

Hi Paula, Yes that is their normal size. Great little fish. I used to have a couple tanks of them. When buying them make sure they are not hybridized with guppies. All to0 common to mix these and continue selling them as Endlers. If they are not pure they are merely guppies. Someday I will get another tank of them, right now I have too many tanks and need to downsize for an upcoming move. -Mike recently purchased two pair of Endler's for my 55-gallon established (for around 10 years) heavily planted tank. I am amazed at the size difference between the males and females - the females are at least twice the size of the males. Is this common? Just wondering if I got different ages because the gals are so much bigger? -----Original Message----- From: Paula Brown <browngip@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:52 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Endlers Question I recently purchased two pair of Endler's for my 55-gallon established (for around 10 years) heavily planted tank. I am amazed at the size difference between the males and females - the females are at least twice the size of the males. Is this common? Just wondering if I got different ages because the gals are so much bigger? I am also very happy because I am getting a 29 gallon tank, complete with stand and all accessories, for free tomorrow. I placed a WANTED post on my local Freecycle list and somebody had this setup in their basement gathering dust (though they had it set up six months ago with no leakage). I always check Craigslist but have not had any luck there. Maybe it is karma - I recently posted an OFFER on another local Freecycle list giving away a 20 gallon high tank that developed a leak around six inches up. I figured somebody could use it for frogs or something. Paula in Monroe, Michigan ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25350	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question

Be careful with it near the window. You can cook the little fella when it gets too warm. One gallon can heat up quickly! Depending on the plants you may be able to get away with the light in the room. If you look around you can find small lights that will attache to the side of the tank. Azoo makes them for their small tanks, mini flourescent that attaches to the side with a flexible arm. I used to have one, worked pretty good. -Mike I decided to keep it anyways (being that I had it all set up) and added a male Betta to it (I don't think one gallon is great for a Betta but it is certainly better than those nasty bowls at the fish stores). Now because of the live plants, I am thinking I should keep it near a window to get all the light that it can being that I can't supply it via the hood. Is this a good idea or am I asking for algae? I could bring it to work and set it under an overhead cupboard (Cubicle Hell) flourascent light but would prefer to keep it at home. -----Original Message----- From: Paula Brown <browngip@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:58 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Small Planted Tank Question I came across a really good deal last week (clearance sale) and made what is probably a silly buy. It is just a cute one-gallon tank. I went ahead, added established water and gravel from my 55 gallon tank, added some live plants and got ready to install the cover only to find out that there is no light fixture for the top. DARN! I decided to keep it anyways (being that I had it all set up) and added a male Betta to it (I don't think one gallon is great for a Betta but it is certainly better than those nasty bowls at the fish stores). Now because of the live plants, I am thinking I should keep it near a window to get all the light that it can being that I can't supply it via the hood. Is this a good idea or am I asking for algae? I could bring it to work and set it under an overhead cupboard (Cubicle Hell) flourascent light but would prefer to keep it at home. Any suggestions? One more thing: How do ya'll pronounce Betta? I have always pronounced it Bet Ta (one word of course). I have been corrected by so many LFS people though that it is Bet A (one word). To me Beta should only have one T though (as in Beta/VHS). Who is right? Paula in Monroe, Michigan ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25351	From: bmp	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Cutting the back strip on a Versa Top

Hi everyone, Today I received the new equipment for my new tank--exciting! I wonder if anyone has any tips on the best way to cut away parts of a glass cover/Versa Top's back strip to allow room for filter, heater, etc. I have tried ordinary scissors, tin snips (but the long handles are awkward) and a Swiss Army knife but none of these was really easy. It was hard also to cut a straight, smooth edge. Any ideas? Beverly Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25352	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question

I pronounce it like Beta as in the old Beta/VHS... although you're showing your age with that one... as am I since I knew what you were talking about. LOL It would be better to compare it to Beta computer programs which are those still in the testing phase. That we, we appear younger since we know computer lingo. ;-) Google's definition, via Answers.com, says I am wrong and pronounces it as "bet·ta (bĕt'ə)" per http://www.answers.com/betta&r=67 (You can even click the little speaker icon to hear the pronunciation). Whenever you are curious about a word, just type it into a Google search and then on the top left of the results page, you will see a link to "definition" which will bring up the definition page on Answers.com. To me a bet-ta (bettor) is someone who bets on a competition but of course, since these were originally called Siamese Fighting Fish, I'm sure some people used to bet on the outcome of their fights so maybe that is where the new common name comes from... or maybe it's something far less cynical... like the genus name, Betta Splendens. LOL If you keep him in the 1G, don't put it in direct sunlight as that would possibly heat up the 1G too fast. The fluorescent lighting at your office is good for many easy to grow low-light plants as would the indirect natural lighting. I think you should hit freecycle again and find a 10G set up with a heater and filter for him and then you could add something else to the tank besides Mr. Betta. I have a 10G stocking list on my blog which has some suitable suggestions as tank mates for a male Betta. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 2:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Small Planted Tank Question I came across a really good deal last week (clearance sale) and made what is probably a silly buy. It is just a cute one-gallon tank. I went ahead, added established water and gravel from my 55 gallon tank, added some live plants and got ready to install the cover only to find out that there is no light fixture for the top. DARN! I decided to keep it anyways (being that I had it all set up) and added a male Betta to it (I don't think one gallon is great for a Betta but it is certainly better than those nasty bowls at the fish stores). Now because of the live plants, I am thinking I should keep it near a window to get all the light that it can being that I can't supply it via the hood. Is this a good idea or am I asking for algae? I could bring it to work and set it under an overhead cupboard (Cubicle Hell) flourascent light but would prefer to keep it at home. Any suggestions? One more thing: How do ya'll pronounce Betta? I have always pronounced it Bet Ta (one word of course). I have been corrected by so many LFS people though that it is Bet A (one word). To me Beta should only have one T though (as in Beta/VHS). Who is right? Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25353	From: tteitgen	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Aquarium Trim

Can someone tell me where I can buy the trim piece that goes around the top of my 55 gal tank. The center piece is broken and the light and covers do not fit properly anymore. Or any DIY solutions. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25354	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Trim

One place that sells tank parts is http://www.GlassCages.com but I am sure there are many others. I would probably just repair the center piece using a piece of hard plastic as a splint and glue it on top of the broken piece using a two-part epoxy or even aquarium safe silicone would work since it's not a heavy load bearing section but it does provide some support. You definitely want this piece repaired before filling the tank as I've seen pictures of tanks where the front and rear glasses are bowing out badly to the point of failing. Here's a couple of sites I have in my favorites folder about tank repair that may give more info. http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107 http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/a/aa031302.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tteitgen Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 5:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Trim Can someone tell me where I can buy the trim piece that goes around the top of my 55 gal tank. The center piece is broken and the light and covers do not fit properly anymore. Or any DIY solutions. Thanks No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25355	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Trim

I had to cut mine on a brand new tank (cool in-tank background) and my husband did the splint thing, but he used pop rivets to secure the splint. I think he was afraid glue would not hold. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Trim One place that sells tank parts is http://www.GlassCages.com but I am sure there are many others. I would probably just repair the center piece using a piece of hard plastic as a splint and glue it on top of the broken piece using a two-part epoxy or even aquarium safe silicone would work since it's not a heavy load bearing section but it does provide some support. You definitely want this piece repaired before filling the tank as I've seen pictures of tanks where the front and rear glasses are bowing out badly to the point of failing. Here's a couple of sites I have in my favorites folder about tank repair that may give more info. http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107 http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/a/aa031302.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tteitgen Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 5:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Trim Can someone tell me where I can buy the trim piece that goes around the top of my 55 gal tank. The center piece is broken and the light and covers do not fit properly anymore. Or any DIY solutions. Thanks No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25356	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question

As Paul Loiselle once said, "He who pronounces the name the loudest is the most correct." I usually go with bet - ta, which as lenny obliquely points out is really bettor with a Boston accent. For those of you who are unfamiliar with this man, a very brief glimpse is given at http://nyaquarium.com/287230/fishynamesake And you can also check out some of the titles he has authored, co-authored, edited by searching for Paul Loiselle on amazon.com in the books section. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Small Planted Tank Question I came across a really good deal last week (clearance sale) and made what is probably a silly buy. It is just a cute one-gallon tank. I went ahead, added established water and gravel from my 55 gallon tank, added some live plants and got ready to install the cover only to find out that there is no light fixture for the top. DARN! I decided to keep it anyways (being that I had it all set up) and added a male Betta to it (I don't think one gallon is great for a Betta but it is certainly better than those nasty bowls at the fish stores). Now because of the live plants, I am thinking I should keep it near a window to get all the light that it can being that I can't supply it via the hood. Is this a good idea or am I asking for algae? I could bring it to work and set it under an overhead cupboard (Cubicle Hell) flourascent light but would prefer to keep it at home. Any suggestions? One more thing: How do ya'll pronounce Betta? I have always pronounced it Bet Ta (one word of course). I have been corrected by so many LFS people though that it is Bet A (one word). To me Beta should only have one T though (as in Beta/VHS). Who is right? Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25357	From: Jodi Lynn Reeves	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Adding a under the gravel filter

My tank does not have a under gravel filter. I have a HOB filter now. I wanted to add one. But I read about you guys saying not to disrput the cycle. How do I properly add the filter without disrupting the cycle or taking everything out and putting it all back in. I did not think that I would not have to change all of the water but I would have to take out the decorations and rocks. I do my pwc with my son. He and I really enjoy doing that on Sunday. Plus then I use the water to water my house plants. Double usage. We do not have a pet store in my small town. So I have not reduced the fish in my tank. I just wanted to make it as safe and best for them as possible. Sunday is our pet day. That is the day that we also give the dog a bath. And give any meds to the dog and cats. Thanks for the help, Jodi.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/8/2008
Subject: Re: Adding a under the gravel filter

It's a good idea to copy/paste all of the pre-existing posts/thread, or at least the pertinent parts, into any new post since many of us read the posts via email so I do not remember what all was said in this thread except for the new post you just sent. Do you already own the UGF? Did you buy it or get it for free? It's probably better to put a UGF in a new tank before setting it up for fish... if you are set on having a UGF. I find that other filter systems are easier to maintain. To add one now would mean breaking down your tank completely. You could do it but you would first have to get a holding tank and move everything from your tank to the holding tank, then put in the UGF, then move everything back. It seems like a lot of work to me. Why not just add another HOB filter or a canister filter if you want more filtration on the tank? Or wait till you get a bigger tank and set up the bigger tank with the UGF and other filter systems and then move the fish. If you are thinking about adding more filtration because your fish are overstocked and if you are on a budget... and who isn't... I think I would try to save up for a bigger tank rather than adding more filtration to a smaller tank... unless you plan to do both and the added filtration is just a short term plan until you get a larger tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jodi Lynn Reeves Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Adding a under the gravel filter My tank does not have a under gravel filter. I have a HOB filter now. I wanted to add one. But I read about you guys saying not to disrput the cycle. How do I properly add the filter without disrupting the cycle or taking everything out and putting it all back in. I did not think that I would not have to change all of the water but I would have to take out the decorations and rocks. I do my pwc with my son. He and I really enjoy doing that on Sunday. Plus then I use the water to water my house plants. Double usage. We do not have a pet store in my small town. So I have not reduced the fish in my tank. I just wanted to make it as safe and best for them as possible. Sunday is our pet day. That is the day that we also give the dog a bath. And give any meds to the dog and cats. Thanks for the help, Jodi. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1214 - Release Date: 1/8/2008 1:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25359	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Cutting the back strip on a Versa Top

I've had the most luck with kitchen sheers. The pair I have have has thin blades about 3" long. Even then I don't get a factory looking cut, but it's in the back of the tank out of sight so I've never worried about it too much. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25360	From: mlfrancis2001	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: looking for advice with my betta

I bought two of those little heaters and promptly took them back to the store. They do not regulate the temperature worth a darned. I caught them making good five degree swings from night to day in a 5 gallon tank. I knew 7.5 watts sounded very low to me, but the package said for 2-5gallon tanks so I thought I would give them a try. My favorite heater at the moment is the Visitherm Stealth. I have four tanks ranging from 5gal to 90gal all with different size stealths (5w/gallon) all set to 75 degrees. I'm not joking or exagerating when I say I've checked the tanks to find them all within 1 degree of 75 and all within 2 degrees of each other. I'm very happy with the heaters so far. The smallest they make is the 25wat and that's 8" long so it may be too big wattage and size wise for a 2.5 gallon tank, but if you get a larger tank, keep them in mind.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25361	From: William	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question

I don't think that it matters as long as everyone knows what you are talking about. It is not as though the same fish is being called by many different names like the largemouth bass that has at least 8 and maybe more names that it goes by in different parts of the United States. Whether you call it Beta or Betta is not that much different to cause a fight on which is right or wrong. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I pronounce it like Beta as in the old Beta/VHS... although you're showing your age with that one... as am I since I knew what you were talking about. LOL It would be better to compare it to Beta computer programs which are those still in the testing phase. That we, we appear younger since we know computer lingo. ;-) > > Google's definition, via Answers.com, says I am wrong and pronounces it as "bet·ta (bĕt'ə)" per http://www.answers.com/betta&r=67 (You can even click the little speaker icon to hear the pronunciation). Whenever you are curious about a word, just type it into a Google search and then on the top left of the results page, you will see a link to "definition" which will bring up the definition page on Answers.com. > > To me a bet-ta (bettor) is someone who bets on a competition but of course, since these were originally called Siamese Fighting Fish, I'm sure some people used to bet on the outcome of their fights so maybe that is where the new common name comes from... or maybe it's something far less cynical... like the genus name, Betta Splendens. LOL > > If you keep him in the 1G, don't put it in direct sunlight as that would possibly heat up the 1G too fast. The fluorescent lighting at your office is good for many easy to grow low-light plants as would the indirect natural lighting. > > I think you should hit freecycle again and find a 10G set up with a heater and filter for him and then you could add something else to the tank besides Mr. Betta. I have a 10G stocking list on my blog which has some suitable suggestions as tank mates for a male Betta. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 2:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Small Planted Tank Question > > I came across a really good deal last week (clearance sale) and made what is probably a silly buy. It is just a cute one-gallon tank. I went ahead, added established water and gravel from my 55 gallon tank, added some live plants and got ready to install the cover only to find out that there is no light fixture for the top. DARN! > > I decided to keep it anyways (being that I had it all set up) and added a male Betta to it (I don't think one gallon is great for a Betta but it is certainly better than those nasty bowls at the fish stores). Now because of the live plants, I am thinking I should keep it near a window to get all the light that it can being that I can't supply it via the hood. Is this a good idea or am I asking for algae? I could bring it to work and set it under an overhead cupboard (Cubicle Hell) flourascent light but would prefer to keep it at home. > > Any suggestions? > > One more thing: How do ya'll pronounce Betta? I have always pronounced it Bet Ta (one word of course). I have been corrected by so many LFS people though that it is Bet A (one word). To me Beta should only have one T though (as in Beta/VHS). Who is right? > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25362	From: Blue fish	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: View latest videos of Marine animals

Videos of Blue water Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C43415954424D425A445146445A515F4B ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C43415954424D425A445146445A515F4B Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C43415954424D425A445146445A515F4E Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25363	From: Andreas	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: nano cubes

Hello all I want to get a friend a small low maintainance tank in which I want to place some anubias and low maintainance fish. 20 gallon size any recommendation which one is the best of the "nano cubes" which one has the best lighting, do any have PH controllers / co2 injectors? thanks Andreas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25364	From: pbarry717	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Moving house

I am new to tropical fishkeeping, and am moving to a new house 2 hours away. How do I go about it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25365	From: Cory Walter	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house

When we moved my lfs gave me several of the large bags they got their fish in. I put them in styrofoam coolers, filled them 1/2 - 3/4 full with the water from my aquarium and put my fish in their water, folded the bag over, put the lid on and packed them securely in the back floor board of my car. As far as you have to go, the back seat might be better instead of on the hot floor.......I lost only 1 fish out of about 30, 3 aquariums of them. It was just oh so easy........ Cory S. Walter Have a wonderful, blessed day! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25366	From: mlfrancis2001	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house

I moved a 30gal 10hrs from Louisiana to Georgia without any loses. I bought a new 13gal kitchen trashcan, but any sizeable container will work and then bought a battery powered "minnow keeper" bubbler from the fishing (fishing, not fish) department at Wal-Mart for about $5. Put a airstone and tubing on that and dropped into the container. Filled it with partial water from my tank and partial declorinated fresh water. Moved the fish over and placed in the floorboard of my car. Also brought along a few gallon jugs of fresh declorinated water. About twice throught he trip I scooped out about a gallon and watered the grass at rest stops and replaced with more of the fresh water. It was in the middle of the summer so I didn't have to worry about a heater and I never left it in the car without the AC running for longer than a "pit stop." I made it without any problems at all. Fish all lived several more years... then the kids came along, but that's another story. ;-) Good luck --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "pbarry717" <pbarry717@...> wrote: > > I am new to tropical fishkeeping, and am moving to a new house 2 hours > away. How do I go about it? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25367	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house

Here's a couple of links I have in my favorites folder concerning "Moving". If you have any other questions, ask away and I'm sure one of us can provide an answer. http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11321 http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/freshwater-general-discussion/28882-i-moved- 3-000-miles-my-fish-update-after-move.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pbarry717 Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 1:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Moving house I am new to tropical fishkeeping, and am moving to a new house 2 hours away. How do I go about it? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1214 - Release Date: 1/8/2008 1:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25368	From: Gem_vfr750	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: new to this group but need help on my fry

hello, I just want to say that I am looking for a site that can help me with my aquariums. I have two ten gallon tanks and a 55 gallon tank. In my 55 gallon tank I have - 7 fancy tail guppies and 4 black mollys, two small beta like fish and three alge eating fish (dont know the name of these either. Now one of my mollys gave birth in a seperator and I had 71 fry. According to the awuarium store I was to put aquarium salt in my tank which I did a while ago, Yesterday I only had two fry left. They all died. The water is at 79 degrees, I had my water tested about two weeks ago and they told me my water was perfect. Do you know why all of my fry except two died. I have been trying to find answers on the net but with no luck. I appreciate any feed back thanks, jennie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25369	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: new to this group but need help on my fry

Did you mix the salt in gradually, pre-dissolved in tank water? On Jan 9, 2008 8:33 PM, Gem_vfr750 <gem_vfr750@...> wrote: > > > > > > > hello, I just want to say that I am looking for a site that can help > me with my aquariums. I have two ten gallon tanks and a 55 gallon > tank. In my 55 gallon tank I have - 7 fancy tail guppies and 4 black > mollys, two small beta like fish and three alge eating fish (dont know > the name of these either. Now one of my mollys gave birth in a > seperator and I had 71 fry. According to the awuarium store I was to > put aquarium salt in my tank which I did a while ago, Yesterday I only > had two fry left. They all died. The water is at 79 degrees, I had > my water tested about two weeks ago and they told me my water was > perfect. > > Do you know why all of my fry except two died. I have been trying to > find answers on the net but with no luck. > > I appreciate any feed back > > thanks, jennie > > -- Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com Ontario, Canada

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25370	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: nano cubes

Hi Andreas, Twenty gallon is probably not considered a nano tank. I like the eclipse hoods for display tanks. The eclipse comes with light and filter built into the hood. They sell hoods that fit the 20 gallon tall foot print as well as hoods for 10 and 29 gallon. They fit other sizes as well as long as the have the same footprint as the 10, 20, and 29 tanks. The 20 gallon hoods come with single or dual flourescent fixtures. I believe the 10 gallon hoods are this way as well.   Buying the hood seperate from the tank can sometimes save you money especially if you buy the tank used. Some stores will have deals with hood and tank but usually not nearly as good as a used tank. These do not come with C02 or pH controllers.  Here is the webpage for Eclipse hoods. http://www.marineland.com/products/consumer/con_eclipse.asp They also sell 3, 6, & 12 gallon setups with a small bowfont tank, with the light and filter in the hood. I have used these systems as well. -Mike Gale -----Original Message----- From: Andreas <andreas1120@...> To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:19 am Subject: [AquaticLife] nano cubes Hello all I want to get a friend a small low maintainance tank in which I want to place some anubias and low maintainance fish. 20 gallon size any recommendation which one is the best of the "nano cubes" which one has the best lighting, do any have PH controllers / co2 injectors? thanks Andreas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25371	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house

You will need to do some advance planning. You do not say how many tanks nor how many fish will be making the move with you, but this, or a minor variation, should hold you in good stead. First, determine where the fish will go in the new home. Yeah, I know, in the aquarium, sheesh! So, where are you going to place the aquarium? Check that are to see how level it is. If it is level, good. If not, plan on what you will use to level the stand and tank. Also, if you are going to be laying down some sort of floor covering in the area, you will need to plan for that to go in first. Then the tank would be next, otherwise the tank is first. When packing, the tank(s) will be the last, or one of the last, things to be taken care of. Someone had mentioned getting a large fish shipping bag, or several, to move your fish in. I am more in foavor of bagging fish in smaller bags, only one , or a few, depending on the fish, to a bag. Going this route, you will only need enough water to cover the fish when the bag is laid on its side. It may take a bit of experimentation to get it right, but do not worry too much if there is a bit more than that, but you do not want a lot more. Seal the bags and place them in a Styrofoam box, which may be available from your LFS, or a cooler. If you have live plants, wrap them in newspaper, and dampen the paper, if need be. Place these in the container(s) holding the fish. Take out the heater, and all decorations and box them up as well. You'll want to remove the filter, but keep the media at least damp. Seal it up in a plastic bag if it is an off the tank type of filter. You are going to want to bring all, or most of your water with you. Get some Rubbermaid kitchen or outdoor trash containers with lids that will seal, pretty much anyway, depending on the amount of water you will have--remember also, you are going to have to move these containers. You can leave the substrate in the tank, as long as it is only damp, not hiding any great amount of water. Fit as much as you can in the vehicle that will be arriving as you do at your new home. Move the fish in. Move yourself in. After the move, you may experience a mini-cycle, as the bacteria recover from the move. The last time I moved fish, I moved 20 tanks ranging from 5.5 gallons to 55 gallons. I had a few things going for me. We moved in over a month's time, and the new house was less than 30 minutes away. Every few days, I'd move a couple of tanks down, along with other things, and get the tanks back up and running while she moved in the other stuff we brought along, and I'd help move I the larger stuff. I did not lose a single fish. Just remember to plan out your tank move ahead of time, and collect what you will need to do it so you are not running around at the last minute looking for items, and trying to clean out your new water containers, etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pbarry717 Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Moving house I am new to tropical fishkeeping, and am moving to a new house 2 hours away. How do I go about it? Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25372	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: nano cubes

I was just reading the most recent Aquarium Fish magazine and saw an ad for Hi-Q 12G self-contained All-In-One tanks which even have timed lighting and automatic feeder built in. http://www.hiq-usa.com/cart/ or for the tank system... http://hiq-usa.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_6&products_ id=6 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] nano cubes Hi Andreas, Twenty gallon is probably not considered a nano tank. I like the eclipse hoods for display tanks. The eclipse comes with light and filter built into the hood. They sell hoods that fit the 20 gallon tall foot print as well as hoods for 10 and 29 gallon. They fit other sizes as well as long as the have the same footprint as the 10, 20, and 29 tanks. The 20 gallon hoods come with single or dual flourescent fixtures. I believe the 10 gallon hoods are this way as well. Buying the hood seperate from the tank can sometimes save you money especially if you buy the tank used. Some stores will have deals with hood and tank but usually not nearly as good as a used tank. These do not come with C02 or pH controllers. Here is the webpage for Eclipse hoods. http://www.marineland.com/products/consumer/con_eclipse.asp <http://www.marineland.com/products/consumer/con_eclipse.asp> They also sell 3, 6, & 12 gallon setups with a small bowfont tank, with the light and filter in the hood. I have used these systems as well. -Mike Gale -----Original Message----- From: Andreas <andreas1120@... <mailto:andreas1120%40gmail.com> > To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:19 am Subject: [AquaticLife] nano cubes Hello all I want to get a friend a small low maintainance tank in which I want to place some anubias and low maintainance fish. 20 gallon size any recommendation which one is the best of the "nano cubes" which one has the best lighting, do any have PH controllers / co2 injectors? thanks Andreas No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1214 - Release Date: 1/8/2008 1:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25373	From: jabugladybug	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Help...fish stuck in biocube

Hi, I'm Donna, and new to the group and saltwater aquariums. I could really use some advice...we have a fish stuck in the 3rd chamber of our biocube. Any ideas on how to get him out? Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25374	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help...fish stuck in biocube

What kind of fish and how big? Will it fit through the gravel vacuum hose? I vacuum up my cherry shrimp when I need to move some out of their tank and they just ride through the hose into a bucket. I think they think it's some kind of water slide and try to get back for a second ride. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jabugladybug Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help...fish stuck in biocube Hi, I'm Donna, and new to the group and saltwater aquariums. I could really use some advice...we have a fish stuck in the 3rd chamber of our biocube. Any ideas on how to get him out? Thanks. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1214 - Release Date: 1/8/2008 1:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25375	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question

Paula, Looking back on your incidental question from Tuesday, I thought I might add to it especially since you are being "corrected" on the proper pronunciation of this commonly used word in the fish circles. As has been pointed out, there's no need to get into any arguments on this as we all know what a Betta is regardless of how its pronounced, although I do understand your concern when confronted by other people on this. I'm not really sure how Beta/VHS should be pronounced (maybe as I went right into VHR, LOL), although I believe Beta may be pronounced Bay tuh. For some reason, the audio prompt on the Google link provided is not allowing me any sound for it -- and the visual prompt is useless, as I see it, since it has - B (plus small square) T (plus small square). The accompanying chart indicates "small square" as sounding like the "a" in "about." but that would mean Betta is pronounced "but tuh." I can't say as I ever relied on Google as being the definitive answer to anything, as this service seems to merely touch on many topics superficially instead of delving into the matter of things, often giving the reader no more information than he or she already knows. BTW, the Webster's Complete Unabridged Dictionary has the pronunciation for Betta as "bet ta" (bet tuh), the same way as I gather you are pronouncing it from your brief description. I have never heard it pronounced Bet A (bet aye - obviously wrong), as you say some people are "correcting" you with, although I do occasionally hear "Bay tuh," (also incorrect). Again, while not worth getting into an argument over, glaring improper pronunciation of our fish names reflects a lot on the user in that it does convey the impression that the user may not know very much yet about aquarium fish, and/or may be viewed as not interested in knowing the proper pronunciation. In other words, the person is seen as an uninformed rank neophyte in the hobby whether they are or not; they're letting their lack of knowledge show. To give you further input as for how other people pronounce the word "Betta," whether they're correct or not (some people may choose to argue), some of my best and closest friends have and/or do pronounced it as "bet tuh," (short e, short a) including such noteable people as Warren and Libby Young (developer of the Libby Betta -- now both deceased), Walt Maurus (now deceased), Dr Gene Lucas (world reknown Betta specialist), John Eutuch and Dave Polunas (both judges for the IBC -- International Betta Congress), and well respected show winning top Betta breeder Rich Martucci, who has been sweeping the shows for many years. I've also continued to pronounce it as "bet tuh" for as long as I've had fish (near 60 years) which is the same way Dr William Innes ("Father of the Aquarium Hobby") pronounced it when he was alive, as seen in his "Exotic Aquarium Fishes" 'bible' for the hobby. Dr. Innes specifically points out in his book that "Betta" should NOT be pronounced "bay-ta." I think that should cover the matter if anyone else chooses to "correct" you. Ray Wetzel --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <browngip@...> wrote: > > One more thing: How do ya'll pronounce Betta? I have always pronounced it Bet Ta (one word of course). I have been corrected by so many LFS people though that it is Bet A (one word). To me Beta should only have one T though (as in Beta/VHS). Who is right? > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25376	From: donna matherly	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: Help...fish stuck in biocube

Lenny, You are the man! I rescued my domino damsel a few min ago. Thanks so much! I wasn't able to use the method you recommended, but your email did give me the extra kick in the pants to keep trying. Once again, many thanks from a baby reef keeper! Donna "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: What kind of fish and how big? Will it fit through the gravel vacuum hose? I vacuum up my cherry shrimp when I need to move some out of their tank and they just ride through the hose into a bucket. I think they think it's some kind of water slide and try to get back for a second ride. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jabugladybug Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help...fish stuck in biocube Hi, I'm Donna, and new to the group and saltwater aquariums. I could really use some advice...we have a fish stuck in the 3rd chamber of our biocube. Any ideas on how to get him out? Thanks. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1214 - Release Date: 1/8/2008 1:38 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links Check me out! --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25377	From: Judith Downing	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Aquarium magazines

Hi All, I just discovered that Amazon.com is having a magazine subscription sale. It includes at least three of the fish magazines & the prices are very good to begin with plus there is an additional $5 off today. I just renewed my subscriptions & could kick myself because I would have saved a bundle. I did get two years of "Cat Fancy" for $15, the offer from the magazine company was about $25/year!!! Judith Downing beary@... Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25378	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question

I think this is all getting into the "You say potAto, I say potato" thing. Anywhere there is a different accent, words will be pronounced differently because of the accent... whether it be New Yawk, Bah-stin or N'Awlins. Am I supposed to go to Boston or New York and tell them all they are pronouncing their city name incorrectly? Nor do I want them coming down here and telling us our local flavor is incorrect. We also have a large segment of N'Awlins folks who change the erl in their car, go to the bathroom in the ter-let and then wash their hands in the zinc. Now lets get back to talking about the nitrogen "sickle"! ;-) Are you sure it's not pronounced that way? After all bicycle is pronounced bi-sickle by everyone I know. And lets not even get started on the way some tech support employees pronounce words. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an-x9ZfIliw Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Small Planted Tank Question Paula, Looking back on your incidental question from Tuesday, I thought I might add to it especially since you are being "corrected" on the proper pronunciation of this commonly used word in the fish circles. As has been pointed out, there's no need to get into any arguments on this as we all know what a Betta is regardless of how its pronounced, although I do understand your concern when confronted by other people on this. I'm not really sure how Beta/VHS should be pronounced (maybe as I went right into VHR, LOL), although I believe Beta may be pronounced Bay tuh. For some reason, the audio prompt on the Google link provided is not allowing me any sound for it -- and the visual prompt is useless, as I see it, since it has - B (plus small square) T (plus small square). The accompanying chart indicates "small square" as sounding like the "a" in "about." but that would mean Betta is pronounced "but tuh." I can't say as I ever relied on Google as being the definitive answer to anything, as this service seems to merely touch on many topics superficially instead of delving into the matter of things, often giving the reader no more information than he or she already knows. BTW, the Webster's Complete Unabridged Dictionary has the pronunciation for Betta as "bet ta" (bet tuh), the same way as I gather you are pronouncing it from your brief description. I have never heard it pronounced Bet A (bet aye - obviously wrong), as you say some people are "correcting" you with, although I do occasionally hear "Bay tuh," (also incorrect). Again, while not worth getting into an argument over, glaring improper pronunciation of our fish names reflects a lot on the user in that it does convey the impression that the user may not know very much yet about aquarium fish, and/or may be viewed as not interested in knowing the proper pronunciation. In other words, the person is seen as an uninformed rank neophyte in the hobby whether they are or not; they're letting their lack of knowledge show. To give you further input as for how other people pronounce the word "Betta," whether they're correct or not (some people may choose to argue), some of my best and closest friends have and/or do pronounced it as "bet tuh," (short e, short a) including such noteable people as Warren and Libby Young (developer of the Libby Betta -- now both deceased), Walt Maurus (now deceased), Dr Gene Lucas (world reknown Betta specialist), John Eutuch and Dave Polunas (both judges for the IBC -- International Betta Congress), and well respected show winning top Betta breeder Rich Martucci, who has been sweeping the shows for many years. I've also continued to pronounce it as "bet tuh" for as long as I've had fish (near 60 years) which is the same way Dr William Innes ("Father of the Aquarium Hobby") pronounced it when he was alive, as seen in his "Exotic Aquarium Fishes" 'bible' for the hobby. Dr. Innes specifically points out in his book that "Betta" should NOT be pronounced "bay-ta." I think that should cover the matter if anyone else chooses to "correct" you. Ray Wetzel --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Paula Brown" <browngip@...> wrote: > > One more thing: How do ya'll pronounce Betta? I have always pronounced it Bet Ta (one word of course). I have been corrected by so many LFS people though that it is Bet A (one word). To me Beta should only have one T though (as in Beta/VHS). Who is right? > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date: 1/9/2008 10:16 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25379	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question

Well, you have a point to some extent, although as previously stated the differences in pronunciation are not worth arguing over. But as for discussing the matter, I'd say there's a vast difference between any particular local colloquialism's sounds of vowels (no matter how different the accent may sound) and the correct way to pronounce a vowel according to the dictionaries, i.e., whether it should be a long e or a short e ("tomato" and "potato" aside). No matter the local area of the country anyone comes from, whether they place a bet in Las Vegas, Monte Carlo or Atlantic City, they'll all say they placed bets (not --bates). While I'll recognize that the vernacular in different parts of the country may vary, the basics of speech all dictate they follow the same rules of English. Sure enough, "bicycle" is pronounced bi-sickle -- by everybody, but if there were ever a question as to how nitrogen "cycle," (or any other word) is to be pronounced, one may just refer to the dictionary to find its correct pronunciation -- no matter the local accent involved. There's a HUGH difference between a long "e" (or "a" or "o," etc.) and a short "e" (or "a" or "o,", etc.) no matter who's accent its said in. To continue, for example, to pronounce "Guppy" as Goopy as you may often hear from the uninitiated, exposes their ignorance in these matters (only of course to the extent they are not yet well-versed in how to pronounce these strange - to them - words). As you are probably aware of, this fish was named after a person who's surname was Guppy and should be pronounced accordingly. To pronounce it any differently is to get sloppy and/or uncaring (or again, just not knowlegeable enough). Its curious why every recognized expert on Bettas I've known pronounces the word as Bet - tuh. Is there a reason why anyone else should not at least attempt to pronounce these same vowels in this particular word in a similarly recognizable manner, local accents not withstanding? Ray Wetzel P.S.: As for some tech support employees, I have to go along with you on that (LOL). --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think this is all getting into the "You say potAto, I say potato" thing. > > Anywhere there is a different accent, words will be pronounced differently > because of the accent... whether it be New Yawk, Bah-stin or N'Awlins. Am I > supposed to go to Boston or New York and tell them all they are pronouncing > their city name incorrectly? > > Nor do I want them coming down here and telling us our local flavor is > incorrect. We also have a large segment of N'Awlins folks who change the > erl in their car, go to the bathroom in the ter-let and then wash their > hands in the zinc. > > Now lets get back to talking about the nitrogen "sickle"! ;-) Are you sure > it's not pronounced that way? After all bicycle is pronounced bi- sickle by > everyone I know. > > And lets not even get started on the way some tech support employees > pronounce words. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an-x9ZfIliw > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Small Planted Tank Question > > Paula, Looking back on your incidental question from Tuesday, I thought I > might add to it especially since you are being "corrected" on the proper > pronunciation of this commonly used word in the fish circles. > As has been pointed out, there's no need to get into any arguments on this > as we all know what a Betta is regardless of how its pronounced, although I > do understand your concern when confronted by other people on this. > > I'm not really sure how Beta/VHS should be pronounced (maybe as I went right > into VHR, LOL), although I believe Beta may be pronounced Bay tuh. > For some reason, the audio prompt on the Google link provided is not > allowing me any sound for it -- and the visual prompt is useless, as I see > it, since it has - B (plus small square) T (plus small square). > The accompanying chart indicates "small square" as sounding like the "a" in > "about." but that would mean Betta is pronounced "but tuh." > I can't say as I ever relied on Google as being the definitive answer to > anything, as this service seems to merely touch on many topics superficially > instead of delving into the matter of things, often giving the reader no > more information than he or she already knows. > BTW, the Webster's Complete Unabridged Dictionary has the pronunciation for > Betta as "bet ta" (bet tuh), the same way as I gather you are pronouncing it > from your brief description. I have never heard it pronounced Bet A (bet aye > - obviously wrong), as you say some people are "correcting" you with, > although I do occasionally hear "Bay tuh," > (also incorrect). Again, while not worth getting into an argument over, > glaring improper pronunciation of our fish names reflects a lot on the user > in that it does convey the impression that the user may not know very much > yet about aquarium fish, and/or may be viewed as not interested in knowing > the proper pronunciation. In other words, the person is seen as an > uninformed rank neophyte in the hobby whether they are or not; they're > letting their lack of knowledge show. > > To give you further input as for how other people pronounce the word > "Betta," whether they're correct or not (some people may choose to argue), > some of my best and closest friends have and/or do pronounced it as "bet > tuh," (short e, short a) including such noteable people as Warren and Libby > Young (developer of the Libby Betta -- now both deceased), Walt Maurus (now > deceased), Dr Gene Lucas (world reknown Betta specialist), John Eutuch and > Dave Polunas (both judges for the IBC -- International Betta Congress), and > well respected show winning top Betta breeder Rich Martucci, who has been > sweeping the shows for many years. I've also continued to pronounce it as > "bet tuh" for as long as I've had fish (near 60 years) which is the same way > Dr William Innes ("Father of the Aquarium Hobby") pronounced it when he was > alive, as seen in his "Exotic Aquarium Fishes" 'bible' for the hobby. Dr. > Innes specifically points out in his book that "Betta" should NOT be > pronounced "bay-ta." I think that should cover the matter if anyone else > chooses to "correct" you. Ray Wetzel > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Paula Brown" <browngip@> wrote: > > > > One more thing: How do ya'll pronounce Betta? I have always > pronounced it Bet Ta (one word of course). I have been corrected by so many > LFS people though that it is Bet A (one word). To me Beta should only have > one T though (as in Beta/VHS). Who is right? > > > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date: 1/9/2008 > 10:16 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25380	From: Cleo H	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: new to this group but need help on my fry

I had the same problem. Have you seen the bodies of the fry? If not, the mollies and guppies will eat the fry. Happened to me every time. You actually have to try to separate them into a different tank or make sure the tank is thickly covered in plants or decorations. The bad news is that most of the time hardly any fry survive when with adults. Cleo Gem_vfr750 <gem_vfr750@...> wrote: hello, I just want to say that I am looking for a site that can help me with my aquariums. I have two ten gallon tanks and a 55 gallon tank. In my 55 gallon tank I have - 7 fancy tail guppies and 4 black mollys, two small beta like fish and three alge eating fish (dont know the name of these either. Now one of my mollys gave birth in a seperator and I had 71 fry. According to the awuarium store I was to put aquarium salt in my tank which I did a while ago, Yesterday I only had two fry left. They all died. The water is at 79 degrees, I had my water tested about two weeks ago and they told me my water was perfect. Do you know why all of my fry except two died. I have been trying to find answers on the net but with no luck. I appreciate any feed back thanks, jennie --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25381	From: Gem_vfr750	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: new to this group but need help on my fry

hi carmen and the pack, I honestly do not remember if I did or not, I believe that I didnt but I am not too sure. But just to let you know two of my dalmation mollies died too just yesterday morning so I did a water change and hopefully this will work. The remaining two molly fry look like they are doing well, they are swimming around in there little seperator and one of my guppies just gave birth this morning to 10 fry and none of them died, so maybe the water change was good, maybe there was too much salt, do you know the amount for a 55 gal, I put in a cup. anyway i am really glad that i am part of this group as i am so new to this but absolutely love fish and baby fry....... The first batch of babies found all new homes and the third and fourth and now i am on the seventh, so breeding looks like a great hobby.... thanks again take care Jennie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Carmen H" <eskielists@...> wrote: > > Did you mix the salt in gradually, pre-dissolved in tank water? > > On Jan 9, 2008 8:33 PM, Gem_vfr750 <gem_vfr750@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hello, I just want to say that I am looking for a site that can help > > me with my aquariums. I have two ten gallon tanks and a 55 gallon > > tank. In my 55 gallon tank I have - 7 fancy tail guppies and 4 black > > mollys, two small beta like fish and three alge eating fish (dont know > > the name of these either. Now one of my mollys gave birth in a > > seperator and I had 71 fry. According to the awuarium store I was to > > put aquarium salt in my tank which I did a while ago, Yesterday I only > > had two fry left. They all died. The water is at 79 degrees, I had > > my water tested about two weeks ago and they told me my water was > > perfect. > > > > Do you know why all of my fry except two died. I have been trying to > > find answers on the net but with no luck. > > > > I appreciate any feed back > > > > thanks, jennie > > > > > > > > -- > Carmen and the pack > Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue > www.reskie.com > Ontario, Canada >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25382	From: Gem_vfr750	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: new to this group but need help on my fry

Hello Cleo All my mom fish are always put in a seperator as I love breeding, and in the seperator they were all alive and I actually counted 71 but within hours they started dying one by one and the little bodies became grey and by the next day I had ten and now i have two..... I dont trust any adults,,,,, best to seperate at birth LOL.... thanks so much take care jennie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Cleo H <maybelline101@...> wrote: > > I had the same problem. Have you seen the bodies of the fry? If not, the mollies and guppies will eat the fry. Happened to me every time. You actually have to try to separate them into a different tank or make sure the tank is thickly covered in plants or decorations. The bad news is that most of the time hardly any fry survive when with adults. > > Cleo > > Gem_vfr750 <gem_vfr750@...> wrote: hello, I just want to say that I am looking for a site that can help > me with my aquariums. I have two ten gallon tanks and a 55 gallon > tank. In my 55 gallon tank I have - 7 fancy tail guppies and 4 black > mollys, two small beta like fish and three alge eating fish (dont know > the name of these either. Now one of my mollys gave birth in a > seperator and I had 71 fry. According to the awuarium store I was to > put aquarium salt in my tank which I did a while ago, Yesterday I only > had two fry left. They all died. The water is at 79 degrees, I had > my water tested about two weeks ago and they told me my water was > perfect. > > Do you know why all of my fry except two died. I have been trying to > find answers on the net but with no luck. > > I appreciate any feed back > > thanks, jennie > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25383	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium magazines

Thanks Judith, In the past I have gotten magazine subscriptions at really good prices on ebay. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Judith Downing <beary@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 7:54 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium magazines Hi All, I just discovered that Amazon.com is having a magazine subscription sale. It includes at least three of the fish magazines & the prices are very good to begin with plus there is an additional $5 off today. I just renewed my subscriptions & could kick myself because I would have saved a bundle. I did get two years of "Cat Fancy" for $15, the offer from the magazine company was about $25/year!!! Judith Downing beary@... Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25384	From: pinkvock	Date: 1/11/2008
Subject: water advice

I am thinking about getting an RO unit of some type. I've been buying some distilled water to blend in with my tap water for changes. My tap water is from a rural water source,it is chlorinated,the main problem with it is that it is quite hard. I did a source water baseline and the water came out of the tap at a ph of 7.2 and ended up at 8.0 after 36 hours, the general hardness was greater than 400 ppm, the KH was between 200-400ppm. I use an API GH and KH Test kit. So, what I do is let it sit for 2 or 3 days and then blend it with distilled water from the store to get it down and use that for my water changes. That seems to be working quite well. The ph in the tank stays from 7.8-8.0. I've got a 30 gal tank right now but plan to go into a 55 gal tank in the future. So, there's some background on what i'm doing and why and now here are the questions.... Does anyone have any recommendations? Would it be worth the cost to get my own system, or does the intial cost and then the cost of replacement filters end up making it stupid... What does the true cost end up at approximately with the replacement filters? What are your experiences?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25385	From: joe t	Date: 1/11/2008
Subject: Re: Small Planted Tank Question

I have to agree with Ray on this one. For as long as I've been around -- (don't ask) -- we have always pronounced the word as Bet tah (one word). I'm in the New York area, by the way. Just an aside. As Lenny pointed out about different areas, I had a cousin that used to pronounce Guppies as "Goofers"!! Go figure. Where the hell she got that from I don't know. But as Ray said, she knew squat about fish. And I don't think she really cared to learn. All she knew was they were pretty and she liked them. Joe t --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25386	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/11/2008
Subject: Re: water advice

Keep African Rift Lake cichlids, the water is perfect for them. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pinkvock Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 5:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] water advice I am thinking about getting an RO unit of some type. I've been buying some distilled water to blend in with my tap water for changes. My tap water is from a rural water source,it is chlorinated,the main problem with it is that it is quite hard. I did a source water baseline and the water came out of the tap at a ph of 7.2 and ended up at 8.0 after 36 hours, the general hardness was greater than 400 ppm, the KH was between 200-400ppm. I use an API GH and KH Test kit. So, what I do is let it sit for 2 or 3 days and then blend it with distilled water from the store to get it down and use that for my water changes. That seems to be working quite well. The ph in the tank stays from 7.8-8.0. I've got a 30 gal tank right now but plan to go into a 55 gal tank in the future. So, there's some background on what i'm doing and why and now here are the questions.... Does anyone have any recommendations? Would it be worth the cost to get my own system, or does the intial cost and then the cost of replacement filters end up making it stupid... What does the true cost end up at approximately with the replacement filters? What are your experiences? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25387	From: Tony	Date: 1/11/2008
Subject: Re: water advice

The water in my area is extremely hard and has a horrible chlorine smell.For drinking and for use in my tanks (one 55gallon planted, one 30 gallon planted and one 10 gallon) I installed the Whirlpool High Capacity under the sink RO system (Model: WHER25). So far it has worked great. The unit gives about thirty gallons in a 24 hour period. Inorder to store enough water for water change I attached a small piece of tubing from a gravel cleaner to the end of the faucet and placed the other in a plastic 30 gallon trash can ,I use only for water and left the faucet open. Instead of collecting in the 2 1/2 gallon storage tank that comes with the unit it drains into and fill the trash can in about 24 hours. I purchased it from Lowes hardware, the initial cost was less than $200.00 and the RO filter is good for about a year, there are also two other filters that comes with the unit they have to be replaced evey 6 months. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Keep African Rift Lake cichlids, the water is perfect for them. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of pinkvock > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 5:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] water advice > > > > I am thinking about getting an RO unit of some type. I've been buying > some distilled water to blend in with my tap water for changes. My tap > water is from a rural water source,it is chlorinated,the main problem > with it is that it is quite hard. I did a source water baseline and the > water came out of the tap at a ph of 7.2 and ended up at 8.0 after 36 > hours, the general hardness was greater than 400 ppm, the KH was > between 200-400ppm. I use an API GH and KH Test kit. So, what I do is > let it sit for 2 or 3 days and then blend it with distilled water from > the store to get it down and use that for my water changes. That seems > to be working quite well. The ph in the tank stays from 7.8-8.0. I've > got a 30 gal tank right now but plan to go into a 55 gal tank in the > future. > So, there's some background on what i'm doing and why and now here > are the questions.... > Does anyone have any recommendations? Would it be worth the cost to > get my own system, or does the intial cost and then the cost of > replacement filters end up making it stupid... What does the true cost > end up at approximately with the replacement filters? What are your > experiences? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25388	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 1/12/2008
Subject: API Nitrate Test kit

Guys, Does anyone have a API Nitrate Test kit to hand? If so, can you give me brief instructions on it? I have lost the manual and cannot find it anywhere online. Trouble is, Interpet kit says 25mg/l Nitrate in my RO water but the API when I tested by using my logic it stays between 0 and 0.5mg/l Thanks, Nim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25389	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/12/2008
Subject: Re: API Nitrate Test kit

1 Ten drops Bottle #1 in test tube 2 Shake test tube to mix 3 Shake Bottle #2 vigorously for 30 seconds 4 Ten drops Bottle #2 added to test tube 5 Shake test tube vigorously for 60 seconds 6 Wait 5 minutes 7 Compare to color chart _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nimish Mathur Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 3:33 PM To: UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; A-s-k@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] API Nitrate Test kit Guys, Does anyone have a API Nitrate Test kit to hand? If so, can you give me brief instructions on it? I have lost the manual and cannot find it anywhere online. Trouble is, Interpet kit says 25mg/l Nitrate in my RO water but the API when I tested by using my logic it stays between 0 and 0.5mg/l Thanks, Nim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25390	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2008
Subject: Re: API Nitrate Test kit

Nitrate tests for FW will rarely have comparison cards with levels between 0 and 0.5. They usually have the color changes for ever 5mg/l or ppm. Are you testing FW or SW? For the 5ml test tube, always make sure it's clean and shake the chemicals adequately or for as long as they require. Especially the nitrate test chemicals as they will separate while sitting in the cabinet for months on end if not used frequently. Then add 10 drops of Bottle #1 to the 5ml of water. Cap the test tube and invert tube several times to mix. Vigorously shake bottle #2 for at least 30 seconds but a minute or two is better. Then add 10 drops of Bottle #2 to the tube, cap the tube and shake vigorously for 1 minute. Wait 5 minutes for the color to develop. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nimish Mathur Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:33 PM To: UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; A-s-k@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] API Nitrate Test kit Guys, Does anyone have a API Nitrate Test kit to hand? If so, can you give me brief instructions on it? I have lost the manual and cannot find it anywhere online. Trouble is, Interpet kit says 25mg/l Nitrate in my RO water but the API when I tested by using my logic it stays between 0 and 0.5mg/l Thanks, Nim No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.1/1220 - Release Date: 1/11/2008 6:09 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25391	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/12/2008
Subject: Offspring of Different Blind Cave Fish Can See

If you mate fish from different caves that are widely separated, the young of blind cave fish have vision. Richard Borowsky has shown that the offspring of fish from caves 100 km apart will have sight. Science News., Jan. 12, 2008; Vol. 173, No. 2 , p. 21. (subscription required to view online) References: Borowsky, R. 2008. Restoring sight in blind cavefish. Current Biology 18(Jan. 8):R23-R24. Jeffery, W.R. 2007. Chordate ancestry of the neural crest: New insights from ascidians. Seminars in Cell & Developmental Biology 18(August):481-491. Further Readings: Wilkens, H. 2007. Regressive evolution: Ontogeny and genetics of cavefish eye rudimentation. Biological Journal of the Linnean Society 92:297-296. \\Steve// \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25392	From: C.M.	Date: 1/12/2008
Subject: Introduction

Hi and Hello there from Oregon. I have been keep aquarium fish for many years. I started with Tropical Angelfish many years ago, I've kept Oscars and Convict Cichlids over the years. But right now I have Goldfish in a 55 gallon. I have Corydoras and Golden Barb in a 20 gallon-tall right now also. --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25393	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: API Nitrate Test kit

Thanks Donna J Nim From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: 12 January 2008 21:34 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com; A-s-k@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Nitrate Test kit 1 Ten drops Bottle #1 in test tube 2 Shake test tube to mix 3 Shake Bottle #2 vigorously for 30 seconds 4 Ten drops Bottle #2 added to test tube 5 Shake test tube vigorously for 60 seconds 6 Wait 5 minutes 7 Compare to color chart _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nimish Mathur Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 3:33 PM To: UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com <mailto:UniQuaria%40yahoogroups.com> ; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ; A-s-k@yahoogroups.com <mailto:A-s-k%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] API Nitrate Test kit Guys, Does anyone have a API Nitrate Test kit to hand? If so, can you give me brief instructions on it? I have lost the manual and cannot find it anywhere online. Trouble is, Interpet kit says 25mg/l Nitrate in my RO water but the API when I tested by using my logic it stays between 0 and 0.5mg/l Thanks, Nim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25394	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: API Nitrate Test kit

Thanks Lenny. Sorry that was a typo. I did mean 5mg/l instead of 0.5mg/l I am testing both freshwater & saltwater. Strangely, I am getting between 5-10mg/l of Nitrates in my RO water???? Should this not be zero? It's a new RO Unit. Tap water Nitrates are 50mg/l. Nim -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: 12 January 2008 22:21 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Nitrate Test kit Nitrate tests for FW will rarely have comparison cards with levels between 0 and 0.5. They usually have the color changes for ever 5mg/l or ppm. Are you testing FW or SW? For the 5ml test tube, always make sure it's clean and shake the chemicals adequately or for as long as they require. Especially the nitrate test chemicals as they will separate while sitting in the cabinet for months on end if not used frequently. Then add 10 drops of Bottle #1 to the 5ml of water. Cap the test tube and invert tube several times to mix. Vigorously shake bottle #2 for at least 30 seconds but a minute or two is better. Then add 10 drops of Bottle #2 to the tube, cap the tube and shake vigorously for 1 minute. Wait 5 minutes for the color to develop. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nimish Mathur Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:33 PM To: UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; A-s-k@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] API Nitrate Test kit Guys, Does anyone have a API Nitrate Test kit to hand? If so, can you give me brief instructions on it? I have lost the manual and cannot find it anywhere online. Trouble is, Interpet kit says 25mg/l Nitrate in my RO water but the API when I tested by using my logic it stays between 0 and 0.5mg/l Thanks, Nim No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.1/1220 - Release Date: 1/11/2008 6:09 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25395	From: ljjh68	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: detritus worms

I have a planted tank with cherry shrimp, trumpet snails and some pond snails. Today I noticed what looks like detritus worms based on the pictures and information I could find. The worms were poking out of the gravel and if a shrimp came past they would quickly retract. Do I need to worry about these worms causing any problems? Is there a fish I could put in with my cherry shrimp that wouldn't bother them but would eat the worms? Possibly a pygmy cory? Thanks, Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25396	From: Jacqui	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: HELP my fish were being electrocuted

there was electricity being passed thru my fish tank, a 20 gal, and i need to know how to remove the elctricity , i drained all the water but what i couldnt drain with a syphon, i figured that would be enought to remove the electricity in the water. i refilled the tank and there was still enough electricity for me to feel with my bare hand. does anyone know what i can do to save my fish because they cant live in a buket for very long

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25397	From: Wendie	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted

You need to check all your electric items in the tank. It's not the water, there's a problem with either your heater, the lights, or the filter. Once you find out what and fix it, you won't have a problem. It turned out to be the lights in mine. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jacqui To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 9:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish were being electrocuted there was electricity being passed thru my fish tank, a 20 gal, and i need to know how to remove the elctricity , i drained all the water but what i couldnt drain with a syphon, i figured that would be enought to remove the electricity in the water. i refilled the tank and there was still enough electricity for me to feel with my bare hand. does anyone know what i can do to save my fish because they cant live in a buket for very long [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25398	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: API Nitrate Test kit

OK.. next, before presuming something is wrong with your RO unit, check the expiration dates on your API bottles to be sure that is not the cause of a false reading and get a 2nd opinion from another test kit. Most LFS and Chain Stores will test your water at no charge. Here is an article on how to tell if your chemicals are out of date. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nimish Mathur Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Nitrate Test kit Thanks Lenny. Sorry that was a typo. I did mean 5mg/l instead of 0.5mg/l I am testing both freshwater & saltwater. Strangely, I am getting between 5-10mg/l of Nitrates in my RO water???? Should this not be zero? It's a new RO Unit. Tap water Nitrates are 50mg/l. Nim -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: 12 January 2008 22:21 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Nitrate Test kit Nitrate tests for FW will rarely have comparison cards with levels between 0 and 0.5. They usually have the color changes for ever 5mg/l or ppm. Are you testing FW or SW? For the 5ml test tube, always make sure it's clean and shake the chemicals adequately or for as long as they require. Especially the nitrate test chemicals as they will separate while sitting in the cabinet for months on end if not used frequently. Then add 10 drops of Bottle #1 to the 5ml of water. Cap the test tube and invert tube several times to mix. Vigorously shake bottle #2 for at least 30 seconds but a minute or two is better. Then add 10 drops of Bottle #2 to the tube, cap the tube and shake vigorously for 1 minute. Wait 5 minutes for the color to develop. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nimish Mathur Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:33 PM To: UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; A-s-k@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] API Nitrate Test kit Guys, Does anyone have a API Nitrate Test kit to hand? If so, can you give me brief instructions on it? I have lost the manual and cannot find it anywhere online. Trouble is, Interpet kit says 25mg/l Nitrate in my RO water but the API when I tested by using my logic it stays between 0 and 0.5mg/l Thanks, Nim No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1221 - Release Date: 1/12/2008 2:04 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25399	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted

The electricity is coming from one of your electric devices test the heater, the lights and the filter. I don’t recommend using your hand, but since you already did (LOL), try unplugging each item and see if the feeling goes away. Then replace the faulty device. If you have to unplug all of them to stop feeling the electricity, I think it could also be bad grounding on your outlet. Try a different outlet. If all else fails, call an electrician to diagnose with a tester. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jacqui Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish were being electrocuted there was electricity being passed thru my fish tank, a 20 gal, and i need to know how to remove the elctricity , i drained all the water but what i couldnt drain with a syphon, i figured that would be enought to remove the electricity in the water. i refilled the tank and there was still enough electricity for me to feel with my bare hand. does anyone know what i can do to save my fish because they cant live in a buket for very long [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25400	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: detritus worms

I don't think there is a "detritus worm" but you are probably seeing planaria, which would probably be the closest thing to a "detritus worm", although they don't really eat detritus. They are mostly carnivores but will only eat dead/decaying fish/shrimp/etc. so they are technically a good thing for a cherry shrimp tank since it is so hard to vacuum the gravel very good with them being so small. I have one of the small diameter gravel vacuum tubes and I put a filter media bag (fine mesh) over the tube and vacuum my gravel as best I can but the fine mesh also keeps the vacuum from getting any big detritus. I have planaria as part of what I consider the natural ecosystem in my cherry shrimp tank. They will not harm your tank and although in a fish only tank, they are a sign of poor housekeeping, in a heavily populated cherry shrimp tank, where it's so difficult to properly vacuum the gravel, they help as part of the clean up crew. I don't know of any fish that would eat planaria and any that would, would most likely find the cherry shrimp just as tasty. If I ever redo my cherry shrimp tank, I'll probably go with a substrate other than gravel... probably a sand so that detritus would have a harder time permeating down into the sand and then I'd have to make sure I have plenty of MTS to keep the sand clean and turned over. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ljjh68 Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] detritus worms I have a planted tank with cherry shrimp, trumpet snails and some pond snails. Today I noticed what looks like detritus worms based on the pictures and information I could find. The worms were poking out of the gravel and if a shrimp came past they would quickly retract. Do I need to worry about these worms causing any problems? Is there a fish I could put in with my cherry shrimp that wouldn't bother them but would eat the worms? Possibly a pygmy cory? Thanks, Lisa No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1221 - Release Date: 1/12/2008 2:04 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25401	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted

You need to figure out which of your aquarium appliances are shorting out in the water. Start off by removing them all... heater, underwater filters, anything that has the electrical cord going into the water. That should stop the electrical surge. Removing 80% of the water isn't going to fix the problem if you leave the shorting appliance in the water. Here is an article on how to check and protect your tank(s) in the future. It's more of a problem in saltwater tanks since salt water is more conductive. http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/996/996_5.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jacqui Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish were being electrocuted there was electricity being passed thru my fish tank, a 20 gal, and i need to know how to remove the elctricity , i drained all the water but what i couldnt drain with a syphon, i figured that would be enought to remove the electricity in the water. i refilled the tank and there was still enough electricity for me to feel with my bare hand. does anyone know what i can do to save my fish because they cant live in a buket for very long No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1221 - Release Date: 1/12/2008 2:04 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25402	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted

So far everyone has told you about how to determine where the electricity is coming from, but no one has mentioned the fish. You can put the fish back into the tank. They should be OK, with little, if any, harm coming to them. You feel the electricity because you rae grounded. The fish do not, since they are not grounded. The effect on the fish may be to make them a bit more skittish than normal, or may have some effect on the balance they naturally have, or may somewhat affect the organs known as the lateral line, but the damage is likely to be short-lived, and removing the electrical source will allow the fish to return to normal quickly. If you have already followed the suggestions mentioned earlier, You have found and removed the source of the electricity, and left the appliance unplugged. Only the filter should be replaced immediately, if it is found to have been the source. If it is the lights, you can live without them for several days, or more if you do not have live plants. The heater is only important if the room is a "cold" room, since most common fish can withstand a temperature in the low 70's for a time. This will give you some time to do a bit of research on those appliances to indicate what you should get to replace or upgrade them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jacqui Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish were being electrocuted there was electricity being passed thru my fish tank, a 20 gal, and i need to know how to remove the elctricity , i drained all the water but what i couldnt drain with a syphon, i figured that would be enought to remove the electricity in the water. i refilled the tank and there was still enough electricity for me to feel with my bare hand. does anyone know what i can do to save my fish because they cant live in a buket for very long Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25403	From: jett07002	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Coloring Fish

Here's something I thought you all might be interested in. I found it in one of the Tropical Fish sites I go to. Nothing is sacred anymore and I guess people will do anything for a buck. THE OKLAHOMA CITY COUNCIL has voted to change a year-old law that banned the artificial coloring of pet fish. Tattooing and injecting dye into fish will still be illegal, but other forms of coloring, including dye baths, will be permissible under the revised law. It all started a few months ago when someone visited a pet store and saw a fish with "I love you" tattooed on its scales. Animal control was called, and the pet store owner told officers that he got the fish from Quality Pets. The officers confiscated an estimated $1,700 worth of tattooed fish from Quality Pets and euthanized them. Donald Fleming, the owner of Quality Pets, was outraged when his fish were seized and euthanized. He said that many other pet stores like Petsmart, Petco, and Wal-Mart color their tropical fish by either injecting dyes or through a dye bath process. He added: "Are we going to hire fish police to go out and confiscate these fish and euthanize them for their own good?" Fleming also stated that he treats all of his animals humanely. He said before he tattoos the fish, he sedates them, so they can't feel any pain. But Cynthia Armstrong of the Humane Society of the United States disagrees with Fleming. She said many animal rights organizations consider dying a fish or injecting dye into a fish to be inhumane and painful. She said that because dye baths will still be legal, fish will still endure painful coloring processes. "The fish literally drinks and bathes in this chemical die," Armstrong said. "This is extremely damaging to fish. It has a very high mortality rate. It makes them more prone to infectious diseases and shortens the life span for fish that do survive." The only councilman who voted against the amendment said the revision is useless because it is difficult to determine if a fish is colored with a dye bath or an injection. "This ordinance, as I understand it, would essentially be unenforceable," the councilman said. "There is no way we could go in and tell how a fish was colored." The assistant city manager said most likely the only part of the ban that will be enforced is tattooing fish.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25404	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted

Hi Jacqui; First, it is necessary to determine the amount of electricity that we are talking about. If I stick my hand into a fish tank with a cut or scrap there is the possibility with a open wound to find that there is a chemical reaction that would make you think that there is electricity but really it is a chemical reaction due to Ph or other chemicals. Next, I would check for cracked heaters or wetness around a lighting fixture. Many times if you use a spray type return from a Fluval or other filter, water will accumulate around places it should not be. AC electrical current can come from water getting into the lighting socket and with Fluorescent lamp fixtures can be as high as 400 Vac. *How to fix it*? First find the source and remove it. Next you can get a couple of stainless steel rods and put them in the water and attach to thick wire that is attached to a grounded water pipe. Next get a GFP socket for the wall that feeds current to the fish tank- this will pop off if there is voltage in the water or any significant current due to a broken water heater which would apply 120 Vac into the water. If the lighting fixture is the source, then get some plastic cases- either CD cake box (50's) or even cassette tape boxes and lift the lighting fixture up at both ends- this will help reduce heat to the tank in the summer as well. My experience- I have had fish tanks since 1973 including 20 gal, 10 gal and now two 55 gallon tanks. I also have a good sized Pond outside. I have never had this problem that I could notice and I have had a broken in water 300W heater in the pond with no casualties. Knowing electricity, the fish would need to make contact with two points of a broken heater at the same time to be affected. It is unlikely given the effects around a broken heater that the fish would stay around it at all. Also fish like birds and even squirrels in the back yard do fine when sitting onto of a 7000 V power line. The only problem comes from when a squirrel climbs up on a transformer insulator and touches two different potential points that it is killed. I hope this answers most completely your question and contact me further if needed. //Best regards,// /*/Sam Palermo, WMBI Chief Engineer/*/ /*/Moody Broadcasting Network/*/ **/820 North LaSalle Blvd./** /*/Chicago/*//*/, IL/*//*/. 60610/*/ /*/312-329-2043/*/ /*/708-334-2260 Cell/*/ Jacqui wrote: > > there was electricity being passed thru my fish tank, a 20 gal, and i > need to know how to remove the elctricity , i drained all the water but > what i couldnt drain with a syphon, i figured that would be enought to > remove the electricity in the water. i refilled the tank and there was > still enough electricity for me to feel with my bare hand. does anyone > know what i can do to save my fish because they cant live in a buket > for very long > > _,_._,___ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: Coloring Fish

It was probably the money that got to the politicians. There is a lot of money to be made from an ill-educated public for fish like this, as well as the many hybrids that come about, such as the so-called "parrot" cichlids. There is actually another cichlid that has the common name parrot, though it is not often seen in the hobby, _Hoplarchus psittacus_, in case anyone was wondering. (For an article about them, see http://cichlidae.com/article.php?id=67 .) One can debate the ethics of the situation, but when it comes down to it, the shop and big box stores are in the business to make money, and if something sells, they will sell it. This is probably an example of compromise in the political arena--OK, you let us sell the dyed fish, and we will not sell the tattooed fish. It is also an example of the golden rule. He who has the gold, rules. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Coloring Fish Here's something I thought you all might be interested in. I found it in one of the Tropical Fish sites I go to. Nothing is sacred anymore and I guess people will do anything for a buck. THE OKLAHOMA CITY COUNCIL has voted to change a year-old law that banned the artificial coloring of pet fish. Tattooing and injecting dye into fish will still be illegal, but other forms of coloring, including dye baths, will be permissible under the revised law. It all started a few months ago when someone visited a pet store and saw a fish with "I love you" tattooed on its scales. Animal control was called, and the pet store owner told officers that he got the fish from Quality Pets. The officers confiscated an estimated $1,700 worth of tattooed fish from Quality Pets and euthanized them. Donald Fleming, the owner of Quality Pets, was outraged when his fish were seized and euthanized. He said that many other pet stores like Petsmart, Petco, and Wal-Mart color their tropical fish by either injecting dyes or through a dye bath process. He added: "Are we going to hire fish police to go out and confiscate these fish and euthanize them for their own good?" Fleming also stated that he treats all of his animals humanely. He said before he tattoos the fish, he sedates them, so they can't feel any pain. But Cynthia Armstrong of the Humane Society of the United States disagrees with Fleming. She said many animal rights organizations consider dying a fish or injecting dye into a fish to be inhumane and painful. She said that because dye baths will still be legal, fish will still endure painful coloring processes. "The fish literally drinks and bathes in this chemical die," Armstrong said. "This is extremely damaging to fish. It has a very high mortality rate. It makes them more prone to infectious diseases and shortens the life span for fish that do survive." The only councilman who voted against the amendment said the revision is useless because it is difficult to determine if a fish is colored with a dye bath or an injection. "This ordinance, as I understand it, would essentially be unenforceable," the councilman said. "There is no way we could go in and tell how a fish was colored." The assistant city manager said most likely the only part of the ban that will be enforced is tattooing fish.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted

Actually, in the article I linked to, it says that even though the fish aren't grounded, the stray voltage affects their lateral line system, which you mention, but this can cause them stress which can lead to immune system issues so it's something that should still be remedied ASAP. I would consider it similar to what some experts say happens to people living too close to high power lines and the electrostatic charge in the air around those lines affect peoples health even though it's not actually shocking them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish were being electrocuted So far everyone has told you about how to determine where the electricity is coming from, but no one has mentioned the fish. You can put the fish back into the tank. They should be OK, with little, if any, harm coming to them. You feel the electricity because you rae grounded. The fish do not, since they are not grounded. The effect on the fish may be to make them a bit more skittish than normal, or may have some effect on the balance they naturally have, or may somewhat affect the organs known as the lateral line, but the damage is likely to be short-lived, and removing the electrical source will allow the fish to return to normal quickly. If you have already followed the suggestions mentioned earlier, You have found and removed the source of the electricity, and left the appliance unplugged. Only the filter should be replaced immediately, if it is found to have been the source. If it is the lights, you can live without them for several days, or more if you do not have live plants. The heater is only important if the room is a "cold" room, since most common fish can withstand a temperature in the low 70's for a time. This will give you some time to do a bit of research on those appliances to indicate what you should get to replace or upgrade them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jacqui Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish were being electrocuted there was electricity being passed thru my fish tank, a 20 gal, and i need to know how to remove the elctricity , i drained all the water but what i couldnt drain with a syphon, i figured that would be enought to remove the electricity in the water. i refilled the tank and there was still enough electricity for me to feel with my bare hand. does anyone know what i can do to save my fish because they cant live in a buket for very long No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1221 - Release Date: 1/12/2008 2:04 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25407	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted

Lenny, From what I have seen reported about both fish and man in the cases you mention has been anecdotal. Accepted studies may be out there in either case, but, I have not seen them. As you may note, in my original reply, I did mention that there may be problems related to the electricity in the water and the lateral line organs, but, since she would be shortly doing what it takes to determine the cause of the problem, the fish would be better off in the tank, rather than a bucket. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish were being electrocuted Actually, in the article I linked to, it says that even though the fish aren't grounded, the stray voltage affects their lateral line system, which you mention, but this can cause them stress which can lead to immune system issues so it's something that should still be remedied ASAP. I would consider it similar to what some experts say happens to people living too close to high power lines and the electrostatic charge in the air around those lines affect peoples health even though it's not actually shocking them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish were being electrocuted So far everyone has told you about how to determine where the electricity is coming from, but no one has mentioned the fish. You can put the fish back into the tank. They should be OK, with little, if any, harm coming to them. You feel the electricity because you rae grounded. The fish do not, since they are not grounded. The effect on the fish may be to make them a bit more skittish than normal, or may have some effect on the balance they naturally have, or may somewhat affect the organs known as the lateral line, but the damage is likely to be short-lived, and removing the electrical source will allow the fish to return to normal quickly. If you have already followed the suggestions mentioned earlier, You have found and removed the source of the electricity, and left the appliance unplugged. Only the filter should be replaced immediately, if it is found to have been the source. If it is the lights, you can live without them for several days, or more if you do not have live plants. The heater is only important if the room is a "cold" room, since most common fish can withstand a temperature in the low 70's for a time. This will give you some time to do a bit of research on those appliances to indicate what you should get to replace or upgrade them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jacqui Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish were being electrocuted there was electricity being passed thru my fish tank, a 20 gal, and i need to know how to remove the elctricity , i drained all the water but what i couldnt drain with a syphon, i figured that would be enought to remove the electricity in the water. i refilled the tank and there was still enough electricity for me to feel with my bare hand. does anyone know what i can do to save my fish because they cant live in a buket for very long

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25408	From: Jacqui	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted

thank you for your response. the heater did have a crack in it. and it has been replaced. i am concerned about the fish tho, one seems to have a wound on the middle of its face. and another is still runing into things with alarming speed IE tank walls, rock fixtures. i tested the water with a vac and there was minimal reading, could the elctricity has caused permanent damage?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25409	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted

Tough to say. The one with the wound in his head, the wound could have been caused by the moving from the tank to the bucket and back, or it could have another cause, but I don't think it was the electricity that caused it. Maybe he was the one who cracked the heater with his head <g>. As for the one with the rapid swimming and banging into things, give it a day or two to see if he calms down. Here, again, the moving may have a greater effect than the electricity. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jacqui Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 5:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP my fish were being electrocuted thank you for your response. the heater did have a crack in it. and it has been replaced. i am concerned about the fish tho, one seems to have a wound on the middle of its face. and another is still runing into things with alarming speed IE tank walls, rock fixtures. i tested the water with a vac and there was minimal reading, could the elctricity has caused permanent damage? Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25410	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/14/2008
Subject: Re: Coloring Fish

I guess I just don't understand the need to tattoo fish.... or any other animal for that matter.... they're beautiful the way they are. ~Helen --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25411	From: Gregg Taylor	Date: 1/14/2008
Subject: New to Oscars and needing help

I am interested in purchasing and caring for an Oscar and was wondering if anyone in here have any advice and information that they could possibly share with me

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25412	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2008
Subject: Re: New to Oscars and needing help

Oscars get BIG (14") and need BIG tanks and lots of filtration. The minimum sized tank to start with a juvenile would be a 55G (48" x 12" footprint) but it would be better to start off with the proper sized tank for adult size so the fish can grow into the tank without suffering stunting issues so a 100G+, 6' long tank (72" x 18" footprint) would be my minimum recommended size if you don't want to have to be changing tanks and equipment in a year. If you can go bigger, that would be even better. Here's a few good profiles with lots of info and the Mongabay profile has links to much more info. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/cichlids/oscar.html http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=531 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Taylor Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to Oscars and needing help I am interested in purchasing and caring for an Oscar and was wondering if anyone in here have any advice and information that they could possibly share with me No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1224 - Release Date: 1/14/2008 5:39 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25413	From: Gregg Taylor	Date: 1/15/2008
Subject: Re: New to Oscars and needing help

Thank you so much for that quick response. It was well taken in. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:34:07 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New to Oscars and needing help Oscars get BIG (14") and need BIG tanks and lots of filtration. The minimum sized tank to start with a juvenile would be a 55G (48" x 12" footprint) but it would be better to start off with the proper sized tank for adult size so the fish can grow into the tank without suffering stunting issues so a 100G+, 6' long tank (72" x 18" footprint) would be my minimum recommended size if you don't want to have to be changing tanks and equipment in a year. If you can go bigger, that would be even better. Here's a few good profiles with lots of info and the Mongabay profile has links to much more info. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/cichlids/oscar.html http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=531 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Taylor Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to Oscars and needing help I am interested in purchasing and caring for an Oscar and was wondering if anyone in here have any advice and information that they could possibly share with me No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1224 - Release Date: 1/14/2008 5:39 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25414	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/15/2008
Subject: Re: New to Oscars and needing help

If there is anything specific you'd like to know, please feel free to ask. Otherwise, in addition to the excellent recomendations Lenny had given you, I'd like to add for you to be prepared to perform more frequent PWC's (partial water changes) as the fish continues to grow. If this increase in maintenance is not within your scope of caring for such a fish, forget about owning an Oscar. These are one of the Cichlids which are most prone to getting H-I-T-H (hole-in-the-head) disease/syndrome without this care when nitrates are allowed to build up. As for feeding, stay away from live feeder fish, which not only might the Oscar gain a preference for (to the exclusion of most other foods), but they can carry diseases -- not to mention they're more expensive than most other foods. You (and your Oscar) are much better off starting him out with Cichlid pellets and/or sticks (both specifically formulated to create a nutritious, balanced diet) supplemented with such other foods as freeze-dried krill, earthworms and perhaps mealworms and crickets although these last few foods are not essential; earthworms (and nightcrawlers, when the Oscar gets bigger), however, are especially enjoyed and provide an excellent source of protein). Pellets come in various sizes (small, medium and large) and can be fed to the Oscar in subsequent gradients as he grows, starting with small, and as he grows to a size large enough for him to handle the medium pellets, these can be mixed in with the small pellets for a short time until he gets used to the fact they're also food. Ditto when he becomes large enough to handle the large pellets. Cichlids are smart (one of the smartest fish Families), but like most other fish they often don't recognize a similar food as food if it doesn't appear more like the food(s) they've gotten used to. For this reason, you need to "wean" them to different foods when necessary, by mixing it with their old food for a short while. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gregg Taylor" <aquastud0@...> wrote: > > I am interested in purchasing and caring for an Oscar and was > wondering if anyone in here have any advice and information that they > could possibly share with me >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25415	From: friendtoallfish	Date: 1/15/2008
Subject: red clawed crabs

I have a red clawed crab in one of my tanks. Different websites say different things so could someone tell me if they need access to land or can they live fully submerged? Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25416	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 1/15/2008
Subject: Re: red clawed crabs

Yes these guys need land, and they are also brackish water, without either of these, they usually do not last long. Set it up in its own little aquarium, 10 gallons are nice for 1-2 of these guys as they are a larger species than the normal fiddlers (Uca pugnax) that you find. We use childrens play sandfor out sandy beach, and made it 5" deeps as crabs like to burrow. We then made the water just as deep, and used drift wood and rocks for basking areas in the water. We also use a small filter. These guys do not need high salinity, we use 3 teaspoons of marine salt for the tank, you basicly want to be around 5-15ppt. The like to be kept warmer, we use a reptile basking area lamp over our little fiddlers to keep their basking area at 78 degrees. they are a passive animal, they dont really mess with anything living, but if an fish dies, they are quick to clean it up. They do well on sinking algae waffers, sinking bottom feeder food, fresh seafood, frozen fish foods, and even sinking fish pellets. They do best with seafood intheir diet twice a week, we use frozen squid from the pet store in the fish food freezer, but you can also use fresh shrimp from your seafood market, or other species of marine fish. They can be kept with other fish, bt you will want to go with a larger aquarium then, and invest in a nice filter as these animals are rather messy.I keep ghost shrimp in my tank with them, to help clean up ater the messy crabs. And the crabs do not mess with them. They do well with small gobys and live bearers as they do not prey on the grabs. And please do not make the mistake I have a customer make, place a puffer in their crab tank....the leo puffer (Adult) decided to make a meal of the crab..poor thing. Hope that helps a little! ~Melissa --- friendtoallfish <pearlysmith2000@...> wrote: > I have a red clawed crab in one of my tanks. > Different websites say > different things so could someone tell me if they > need access to land > or can they live fully submerged? Thanks > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25417	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2008
Subject: Re: red clawed crabs

The following reputable profiles say they should be kept in brackish water with access to an area above water, either stacked rocks, a piece of driftwood protruding out of the water, etc. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile101.html http://fish.mongabay.com/nonfish.htm An individual's profile but seems well written - http://www.geocities.com/elgecko1989/crab.html Here's a couple of long articles on setting up a Brackish tank - http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/detail.aspx?aid=18925&cid=3788&sear ch= I did see one site that comes up high in searches but is notorious for giving bad information along with good information. In this case, it seems that bad won out since they start off saying the crabs do well in fresh water and are truly aquatic, both of which do not seem to be correct. http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/misc_critters/crabs.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of friendtoallfish Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] red clawed crabs I have a red clawed crab in one of my tanks. Different websites say different things so could someone tell me if they need access to land or can they live fully submerged? Thanks No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1224 - Release Date: 1/14/2008 5:39 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25418	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/16/2008
Subject: Plastic Plant Care

This is from an article written by Jerry Michels and published in the Aug/September 2003, issue of _Splash_, the publication of the Milwaukee Aquarium Society. If there is interest, there are a total of 9 questions that Jerry answers, tongue in cheek, and I will post them at appropriate intervals so as not to overburden you. Question # 1: Do plastic plants grow? I've been doing experiments with plastic plants lately. One of my experiments is to see if plastic plants grow. I thought that I was on to something last week when my plastic hygro appeared to have grown about an inch and a half. Upon further examination, I discovered that the plant hadn't really grown - the background on that tank had slipped down about two inches. On another occasion my eight inch Brazilian sword appeared to have hot up. Come to find out, some of the lead weights had fallen off and the plant had started to float. I couldn't see the bottom of the plant because it was hidden behind some rocks toward the back of the tank. Another way to get growth out of plastic plants is to occasionally replace the plants with similar but slightly larger plants. You can get quite a growth pattern if you start with the four inch variety and work up to the maximum height for your tank. It's good for six to twelve months. By that time somebody will have caught on to your scheme and you'll have to stop anyway. Use those shorter plants in other tanks and you'll have some people fooled again. In any event, it's a lot more fun to make plants grow without having to trim them back. Unless you want to. Then go ahead and replant the shorter plants in reverse order in the original tank. Bound to impress your neighbor. But you'll be in trouble if he wants some of your cuttings for his bare tank. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25420	From: rsteph49	Date: 1/16/2008
Subject: Need help picking fish for a new tank

I'm starting my first saltwater tank. I've got my live rock in and going, so I'm ready to start adding fish. I've got a 20 gallon tank, with 16 lbs of rock, and the crushed coral substrate I have about 16- 17 gallons of actual water in it. I'm planning to get a skunk cleaner shrimp, and some kind of crab - maybe emerald or crown hermit, and *maybe* a turbo snail or something to cling to the sides. Other than that I figured 2-3 fish would sound about right. I'm planning to get a common clown (since that seems to be a default starter fish, and since my little nephew loves them). But I'm not sure on what other type of fish to get. I've got a book and I've marked a handful of fish that I might get; so I thought I'd come here to get some suggestions. I'm look for essentially timid fish, that are likely to get along with or ignore most other fish. Here's some of the other fish I was looking at: Fijian blue-and-gold damselfish Bluestreak cleaner wrasse Royal gramma Blackcap gramma Swissguard basslet Suntail goby Randall's shrimp goby Spangled shrimp goby Multibanded (greenbanded) goby Catalina goby Antenna (hi-fin banded) goby Purple firefish Helfrich's (lavender) firefish Flame firefish Pink scooter dragonet ("blenny") Psychedelic mandarin dragonet Blue-and-orange cleaner pipefish Obviously I can't get all of these. I was thinking the clownfish, some kind of goby or dragonet for the bottom, and then one of the other type of fish (firefish, pipefish, wrasse, damselfish, gramma, basslet) to swim around. Can anyone with a little more experience than me offer up any suggestions on one or two of these that would likely work well in my fish and rock only tank with a clownfish? Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25421	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/16/2008
Subject: Re: Plastic Plant Care

That was pretty entertaining. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 5:03 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Plastic Plant Care This is from an article written by Jerry Michels and published in the Aug/September 2003, issue of _Splash_, the publication of the Milwaukee Aquarium Society. If there is interest, there are a total of 9 questions that Jerry answers, tongue in cheek, and I will post them at appropriate intervals so as not to overburden you. Question # 1: Do plastic plants grow? I've been doing experiments with plastic plants lately. One of my experiments is to see if plastic plants grow. I thought that I was on to something last week when my plastic hygro appeared to have grown about an inch and a half. Upon further examination, I discovered that the plant hadn't really grown - the background on that tank had slipped down about two inches. On another occasion my eight inch Brazilian sword appeared to have hot up. Come to find out, some of the lead weights had fallen off and the plant had started to float. I couldn't see the bottom of the plant because it was hidden behind some rocks toward the back of the tank. Another way to get growth out of plastic plants is to occasionally replace the plants with similar but slightly larger plants. You can get quite a growth pattern if you start with the four inch variety and work up to the maximum height for your tank. It's good for six to twelve months. By that time somebody will have caught on to your scheme and you'll have to stop anyway. Use those shorter plants in other tanks and you'll have some people fooled again. In any event, it's a lot more fun to make plants grow without having to trim them back. Unless you want to. Then go ahead and replant the shorter plants in reverse order in the original tank. Bound to impress your neighbor. But you'll be in trouble if he wants some of your cuttings for his bare tank. \\Steve// ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25422	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank

I think you better check on the aggressiveness and ease of care for those fish you have listed. I’m in about the same place as you, but I do know that damselfish are aggressive and you have to be careful about what you put with basslets. First I’d say research the clown (not one I’ve researched) since that is your centerpiece and match up with that. I will probably put a single Fridmani in my reef tank (planned but not reality) or maybe a trio of green chromis. I’ve looked at Neon gobies too, they seem to go with everything and be easy to keep. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rsteph49 Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 9:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help picking fish for a new tank I'm starting my first saltwater tank. I've got my live rock in and going, so I'm ready to start adding fish. I've got a 20 gallon tank, with 16 lbs of rock, and the crushed coral substrate I have about 16- 17 gallons of actual water in it. I'm planning to get a skunk cleaner shrimp, and some kind of crab - maybe emerald or crown hermit, and *maybe* a turbo snail or something to cling to the sides. Other than that I figured 2-3 fish would sound about right. I'm planning to get a common clownfish (since that seems to be a default starter fish, and since my little nephew loves them). But I'm not sure on what other type of fish to get. I've got a book and I've marked a handful of fish that I might get; so I thought I'd come here to get some suggestions. I'm look for essentially timid fish, that are likely to get along with or ignore most other fish. Here's some of the other fish I was looking at (from a book I have): Fijian blue-and-gold damselfish Bluestreak cleaner wrasse Royal gramma Blackcap gramma Swissguard basslet Suntail goby Randall's shrimp goby Spangled shrimp goby Multibanded (greenbanded) goby Catalina goby Antenna (hi-fin banded) goby Purple firefish Helfrich's (lavender) firefish Flame firefish Pink scooter dragonet ("blenny") Psychedelic mandarin dragonet Blue-and-orange cleaner pipefish Obviously I can't get all of these. I was thinking the clownfish, some kind of goby or dragonet for the bottom, and then one of the other type of fish (firefish, pipefish, wrasse, damselfish, gramma, basslet) to swim around. Can anyone with a little more experience than me offer up any suggestions on one or two of these that would likely work well in my fish and rock only tank with a clownfish? Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25423	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 1/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank

Here's some of the other fish I was looking at (from a book I have): Fijian blue-and-gold damselfish .too agresive for your size tank Bluestreak cleaner wrasse,They bugg the fish too much Royal gramma A good choice Blackcap gramma No experience Swissguard basslet Agressive Suntail goby No experience Randall's shrimp goby Good choice Spangled shrimp goby Good choice Multibanded (greenbanded) goby good choice Catalina goby Not too hardy Antenna (hi-fin banded) goby Good choice Purple firefish Good choice,more expensive Helfrich's (lavender) firefish Good choice(not as hardy as Flame Flame firefish Good choice Pink scooter dragonet ("blenny") Hard to keep Psychedelic mandarin dragonet Need lots of live rock. Can be trained to eat frozen foods. Does best in mature reefs. Blue-and-orange cleaner pipefis Requires live foods in most cases This is just my openion, not concrete! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: rsteph49 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:21 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help picking fish for a new tank I'm starting my first saltwater tank. I've got my live rock in and going, so I'm ready to start adding fish. I've got a 20 gallon tank, with 16 lbs of rock, and the crushed coral substrate I have about 16- 17 gallons of actual water in it. I'm planning to get a skunk cleaner shrimp, and some kind of crab - maybe emerald or crown hermit, and *maybe* a turbo snail or something to cling to the sides. Other than that I figured 2-3 fish would sound about right. I'm planning to get a common clownfish (since that seems to be a default starter fish, and since my little nephew loves them). But I'm not sure on what other type of fish to get. I've got a book and I've marked a handful of fish that I might get; so I thought I'd come here to get some suggestions. I'm look for essentially timid fish, that are likely to get along with or ignore most other fish. Here's some of the other fish I was looking at (from a book I have): Fijian blue-and-gold damselfish Bluestreak cleaner wrasse Royal gramma Blackcap gramma Swissguard basslet Suntail goby Randall's shrimp goby Spangled shrimp goby Multibanded (greenbanded) goby Catalina goby Antenna (hi-fin banded) goby Purple firefish Helfrich's (lavender) firefish Flame firefish Pink scooter dragonet ("blenny") Psychedelic mandarin dragonet Blue-and-orange cleaner pipefish Obviously I can't get all of these. I was thinking the clownfish, some kind of goby or dragonet for the bottom, and then one of the other type of fish (firefish, pipefish, wrasse, damselfish, gramma, basslet) to swim around. Can anyone with a little more experience than me offer up any suggestions on one or two of these that would likely work well in my fish and rock only tank with a clownfish? Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: 1/13/2008 8:23 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25424	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 1/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank

If you get tank raised neon goby they are very hardy and a great choice. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 10:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need help picking fish for a new tank I think you better check on the aggressiveness and ease of care for those fish you have listed. I'm in about the same place as you, but I do know that damselfish are aggressive and you have to be careful about what you put with basslets. First I'd say research the clown (not one I've researched) since that is your centerpiece and match up with that. I will probably put a single Fridmani in my reef tank (planned but not reality) or maybe a trio of green chromis. I've looked at Neon gobies too, they seem to go with everything and be easy to keep. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rsteph49 Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 9:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help picking fish for a new tank I'm starting my first saltwater tank. I've got my live rock in and going, so I'm ready to start adding fish. I've got a 20 gallon tank, with 16 lbs of rock, and the crushed coral substrate I have about 16- 17 gallons of actual water in it. I'm planning to get a skunk cleaner shrimp, and some kind of crab - maybe emerald or crown hermit, and *maybe* a turbo snail or something to cling to the sides. Other than that I figured 2-3 fish would sound about right. I'm planning to get a common clownfish (since that seems to be a default starter fish, and since my little nephew loves them). But I'm not sure on what other type of fish to get. I've got a book and I've marked a handful of fish that I might get; so I thought I'd come here to get some suggestions. I'm look for essentially timid fish, that are likely to get along with or ignore most other fish. Here's some of the other fish I was looking at (from a book I have): Fijian blue-and-gold damselfish Bluestreak cleaner wrasse Royal gramma Blackcap gramma Swissguard basslet Suntail goby Randall's shrimp goby Spangled shrimp goby Multibanded (greenbanded) goby Catalina goby Antenna (hi-fin banded) goby Purple firefish Helfrich's (lavender) firefish Flame firefish Pink scooter dragonet ("blenny") Psychedelic mandarin dragonet Blue-and-orange cleaner pipefish Obviously I can't get all of these. I was thinking the clownfish, some kind of goby or dragonet for the bottom, and then one of the other type of fish (firefish, pipefish, wrasse, damselfish, gramma, basslet) to swim around. Can anyone with a little more experience than me offer up any suggestions on one or two of these that would likely work well in my fish and rock only tank with a clownfish? Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: 1/13/2008 8:23 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25425	From: rsteph49	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank

Thank you for the run down that will be very helpful in making my decision. Having no experience yet with saltwater fish, I've been really relying on the insights of those with experience in the subject. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Sissy Sathre" <ssathre@...> wrote: > > Here's some of the other fish I was looking at (from a book I have): > Fijian blue-and-gold damselfish .too agresive for your size tank > Bluestreak cleaner wrasse,They bugg the fish too much > Royal gramma A good choice > Blackcap gramma No experience > Swissguard basslet Agressive > Suntail goby No experience > Randall's shrimp goby Good choice > Spangled shrimp goby Good choice > Multibanded (greenbanded) goby good choice > Catalina goby Not too hardy > Antenna (hi-fin banded) goby Good choice > Purple firefish Good choice,more expensive > Helfrich's (lavender) firefish Good choice(not as hardy as Flame > Flame firefish Good choice > Pink scooter dragonet ("blenny") Hard to keep > Psychedelic mandarin dragonet Need lots of live rock. Can be trained to eat frozen foods. Does best in mature reefs. > Blue-and-orange cleaner pipefis Requires live foods in most cases > > This is just my openion, not concrete! > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysissy.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25426	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank

Oh that’s the other thing. I’m not a rabid environmentalist, but buying tank raised marine fish instead of wild caught, you can avoid accidentally supporting cruel collection techniques that hurt the fish and kill the reefs (explosives, cyanide, etc.). _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rsteph49 Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 11:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank Thank you for the run down that will be very helpful in making my decision. Having no experience yet with saltwater fish, I've been really relying on the insights of those with experience in the subject. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Sissy Sathre" <ssathre@...> wrote: > > Here's some of the other fish I was looking at (from a book I have): > Fijian blue-and-gold damselfish .too agresive for your size tank > Bluestreak cleaner wrasse,They bugg the fish too much > Royal gramma A good choice > Blackcap gramma No experience > Swissguard basslet Agressive > Suntail goby No experience > Randall's shrimp goby Good choice > Spangled shrimp goby Good choice > Multibanded (greenbanded) goby good choice > Catalina goby Not too hardy > Antenna (hi-fin banded) goby Good choice > Purple firefish Good choice,more expensive > Helfrich's (lavender) firefish Good choice(not as hardy as Flame > Flame firefish Good choice > Pink scooter dragonet ("blenny") Hard to keep > Psychedelic mandarin dragonet Need lots of live rock. Can be trained to eat frozen foods. Does best in mature reefs. > Blue-and-orange cleaner pipefis Requires live foods in most cases > > This is just my openion, not concrete! > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysissy.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25427	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank

if you have no experience with saltwater fish, you should start out with damsels and clowns. yes they are aggressive, but, they are very hardy and immune to most diseases. they are great to cycle a new tank, and very inexpensive. in my opinion, there is nothing on this list that would be good to cycle a new tank. most on the list are not hardy, and can only be kept with like species. do not be discouraged when it comes to saltwater keeping. everyone will tell you their own opinion when i comes to saltwater aquaria, and this is just mine. ----- Original Message ---- From: rsteph49 <rsteph49@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 11:11:40 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank Thank you for the run down that will be very helpful in making my decision. Having no experience yet with saltwater fish, I've been really relying on the insights of those with experience in the subject. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Sissy Sathre" <ssathre@... > wrote: > > Here's some of the other fish I was looking at (from a book I have): > Fijian blue-and-gold damselfish .too agresive for your size tank > Bluestreak cleaner wrasse,They bugg the fish too much > Royal gramma A good choice > Blackcap gramma No experience > Swissguard basslet Agressive > Suntail goby No experience > Randall's shrimp goby Good choice > Spangled shrimp goby Good choice > Multibanded (greenbanded) goby good choice > Catalina goby Not too hardy > Antenna (hi-fin banded) goby Good choice > Purple firefish Good choice,more expensive > Helfrich's (lavender) firefish Good choice(not as hardy as Flame > Flame firefish Good choice > Pink scooter dragonet ("blenny") Hard to keep > Psychedelic mandarin dragonet Need lots of live rock. Can be trained to eat frozen foods. Does best in mature reefs. > Blue-and-orange cleaner pipefis Requires live foods in most cases > > This is just my openion, not concrete! > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysiss y.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25428	From: sirazgiga	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: RedSea Aquarium

Hi, I bought a RedSea Aquarium about 3 weeks ago. We put in 2 Damsels and 1 Arrowhead Crab a week later. The fish have been fine and look healthy, but the tank has developed a lot of algae over the last week. Is this a good thing or bad thing? Also yesterday the Electric Blue Damsel just completely disappeared. Do i need to do anything to the tank to a: clean algae and b: make sure the blue damsel has not died and started rotting in the back?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25429	From: Farscape	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: Re: RedSea Aquarium

I'd recently read that arrow crabs are opportunistic feeders, meaning that if a fish rests on the bottom to sleep near them, the fish is likely to become a large meal for the crab. Other than that, I have little knowledge of them. sirazgiga wrote, On 1/17/2008 9:50 AM: > I bought a RedSea Aquarium about 3 weeks ago. We put in 2 Damsels and > 1 Arrowhead Crab a week later. The fish have been fine and look > healthy, but the tank has developed a lot of algae over the last week. > Is this a good thing or bad thing? Also yesterday the Electric Blue > Damsel just completely disappeared.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25430	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: Re: RedSea Aquarium

don't worry about the algae. just your tank going through the cycle period. is the algae green,brown,purple,red.. if it comes off when you wipe it, then its fine. if it dont come off and is like sludge then that is not good. you should be able to do with a couple of turbo snails, they love to eat algae. ----- Original Message ---- From: sirazgiga <sgiga@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:50:48 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] RedSea Aquarium Hi, I bought a RedSea Aquarium about 3 weeks ago. We put in 2 Damsels and 1 Arrowhead Crab a week later. The fish have been fine and look healthy, but the tank has developed a lot of algae over the last week. Is this a good thing or bad thing? Also yesterday the Electric Blue Damsel just completely disappeared. Do i need to do anything to the tank to a: clean algae and b: make sure the blue damsel has not died and started rotting in the back? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25431	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 1/17/2008
Subject: Re: RedSea Aquarium

Arrowhead crabs are quite opportunistic. if anything holds still too long they are one it. icluding urchins, starfish, anemone, and anything else that holds still. if the damsel disappeeared then the crab would have ate the remains by now. ----- Original Message ---- From: Farscape <Farscape@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 6:24:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RedSea Aquarium I'd recently read that arrow crabs are opportunistic feeders, meaning that if a fish rests on the bottom to sleep near them, the fish is likely to become a large meal for the crab. Other than that, I have little knowledge of them. sirazgiga wrote, On 1/17/2008 9:50 AM: > I bought a RedSea Aquarium about 3 weeks ago. We put in 2 Damsels and > 1 Arrowhead Crab a week later. The fish have been fine and look > healthy, but the tank has developed a lot of algae over the last week. > Is this a good thing or bad thing? Also yesterday the Electric Blue > Damsel just completely disappeared. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25432	From: Melissa	Date: 1/18/2008
Subject: Beginner's questions

Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and to fish keeping in general. I don't know much yet but I have been reading and reading and reading trying to figure out what I'm doing here. I have 2 questions, one about fish food and one about live plants. We're using an old 10 gallon tank but we bought a new filter and a new heater. We plan on keeping a freshwater tropical tank. So far, we filled the tank with tap water and had the filter going for a couple of days, then we bought the heater and a beginners 2-pack of chemicals. I believe one bottle was water conditioner and one bottle was ammonia, nitrite, etc.. reducer. Well we added the chemicals and the heater and ran it a couple more days. After testing the water, we found that everything was high but not overly so, so we bought 3 fish to test out the water; 2 platies (1 possibly male red platy, and 1 possibly female mickey mouse platy) and 1 red-bellied pacu. I have since learned that pacus are a very large fish so if he lives and outgrows the tank we'll either get a bigger tank or give him away. Apparantly though the water conditions were passable because all the fish seem to be active and content. At the recomendation of the fish guy at the store, we bought shrimp pellets instead of flake food. He said the pellets don't gunk up the tank as much. My problem is that I'm not sure if the platies are eating the pellets. I'm afraid that the pacu may be eating all the food and the platies aren't getting enough nutrition. Should I buy flake food for them and continue to feed the pellets to the pacu? Or should I wait a day or so more to see if they look underfed? It has only been 2 days since we bought the fish. Also, how often do I feed the fish? My second question is about plants. I'd prefer to use live plants and natural or at least natural-looking decorations. When we first set up the tank, we threw in 2 packets of plant bulbs. There were no instructions but the packet said the bulbs were guaranteed to grow within 30 days. One of the plants show growth so far. The others don't yet but they do show signs of fungus. Is this a normal part of their growth or are these bulbs bad and I should throw them out right away? Never having an aquarium before, I am unsure about all of this. Can anyone give me a website to buy plants from? The selection at all the stores in my area left very much to be desired which is why I went with the bulbs to begin with. Any other information and/or tips for a beginner would be appreciated. Thanks Melissa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2008
Subject: Re: Beginner's questions

Bring back the Pacu immediately and get a store credit and give the store manager a good talking to for even selling Pacu's... they need a 1,000G tank which nobody but the richest or the very experienced and diligent can afford. Pet stores and fish stores should not be selling them to the general public. He will most certainly suffer and die a very early death in your tank. It would be like locking up a horse in your bathroom to live out its life. It's inhumane and borderline animal cruelty. Sorry to be so rough and I know it's not your fault... I'm just trying to motivate you for when you give the pet store manager a good talking to!!! ;-) You won't be able to give him away. There are thousands of people out here trying to give away BIG fish they unwisely purchased thinking they would get a bigger tank one day. It's not fair to you or your fish. Further, none of your other fish will survive if you keep the Pacu in your tank. For a good basic course in fish keeping, go to my blog (link in my sig) and on the right side, there is a link to "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and on that page, right near the top, are two links to online fish keeping tutorials that you can take which will walk you through all of the basics from proper setup, getting the tank "cycled" (the nitrogen cycle.. not just running the filters), proper stocking, planting a tank, etc... all of the things you have questions about now and many more that will come up soon. On another page, I have a "10 gallon tank stocking list" which will give you a list of suitable fish for your 10G tank and the numbers of each to properly stock your tank. Come back here and ask all the questions you may have about anything you do not fully comprehend from my blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Beginner's questions Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and to fish keeping in general. I don't know much yet but I have been reading and reading and reading trying to figure out what I'm doing here. I have 2 questions, one about fish food and one about live plants. We're using an old 10 gallon tank but we bought a new filter and a new heater. We plan on keeping a freshwater tropical tank. So far, we filled the tank with tap water and had the filter going for a couple of days, then we bought the heater and a beginners 2-pack of chemicals. I believe one bottle was water conditioner and one bottle was ammonia, nitrite, etc.. reducer. Well we added the chemicals and the heater and ran it a couple more days. After testing the water, we found that everything was high but not overly so, so we bought 3 fish to test out the water; 2 platies (1 possibly male red platy, and 1 possibly female mickey mouse platy) and 1 red-bellied pacu. I have since learned that pacus are a very large fish so if he lives and outgrows the tank we'll either get a bigger tank or give him away. Apparantly though the water conditions were passable because all the fish seem to be active and content. At the recomendation of the fish guy at the store, we bought shrimp pellets instead of flake food. He said the pellets don't gunk up the tank as much. My problem is that I'm not sure if the platies are eating the pellets. I'm afraid that the pacu may be eating all the food and the platies aren't getting enough nutrition. Should I buy flake food for them and continue to feed the pellets to the pacu? Or should I wait a day or so more to see if they look underfed? It has only been 2 days since we bought the fish. Also, how often do I feed the fish? My second question is about plants. I'd prefer to use live plants and natural or at least natural-looking decorations. When we first set up the tank, we threw in 2 packets of plant bulbs. There were no instructions but the packet said the bulbs were guaranteed to grow within 30 days. One of the plants show growth so far. The others don't yet but they do show signs of fungus. Is this a normal part of their growth or are these bulbs bad and I should throw them out right away? Never having an aquarium before, I am unsure about all of this. Can anyone give me a website to buy plants from? The selection at all the stores in my area left very much to be desired which is why I went with the bulbs to begin with. Any other information and/or tips for a beginner would be appreciated. Thanks Melissa No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6/1230 - Release Date: 1/17/2008 4:59 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25434	From: Melissa	Date: 1/18/2008
Subject: Re: Beginner's questions

I had already contemplated bring him back anyway. Thanks for all of your advice. I'll be sure to check out your blog. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Bring back the Pacu immediately and get a store credit and give the store > manager a good talking to for even selling Pacu's... they need a 1,000G tank > which nobody but the richest or the very experienced and diligent can > afford. Pet stores and fish stores should not be selling them to the > general public. He will most certainly suffer and die a very early death in > your tank. It would be like locking up a horse in your bathroom to live out > its life. It's inhumane and borderline animal cruelty. Sorry to be so > rough and I know it's not your fault... I'm just trying to motivate you for > when you give the pet store manager a good talking to!!! ;-) > > You won't be able to give him away. There are thousands of people out here > trying to give away BIG fish they unwisely purchased thinking they would get > a bigger tank one day. It's not fair to you or your fish. > > Further, none of your other fish will survive if you keep the Pacu in your > tank. > > For a good basic course in fish keeping, go to my blog (link in my sig) and > on the right side, there is a link to "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and on that > page, right near the top, are two links to online fish keeping tutorials > that you can take which will walk you through all of the basics from proper > setup, getting the tank "cycled" (the nitrogen cycle.. not just running the > filters), proper stocking, planting a tank, etc... all of the things you > have questions about now and many more that will come up soon. > > On another page, I have a "10 gallon tank stocking list" which will give you > a list of suitable fish for your 10G tank and the numbers of each to > properly stock your tank. > > Come back here and ask all the questions you may have about anything you do > not fully comprehend from my blog. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Melissa > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 12:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Beginner's questions > > Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and to fish keeping in general. I don't > know much yet but I have been reading and reading and reading trying to > figure out what I'm doing here. I have 2 questions, one about fish food and > one about live plants. > > We're using an old 10 gallon tank but we bought a new filter and a new > heater. We plan on keeping a freshwater tropical tank. So far, we filled the > tank with tap water and had the filter going for a couple of days, then we > bought the heater and a beginners 2-pack of chemicals. I believe one bottle > was water conditioner and one bottle was ammonia, nitrite, etc.. reducer. > Well we added the chemicals and the heater and ran it a couple more days. > > After testing the water, we found that everything was high but not overly > so, so we bought 3 fish to test out the water; 2 platies (1 possibly male > red platy, and 1 possibly female mickey mouse platy) and 1 red- bellied pacu. > I have since learned that pacus are a very large fish so if he lives and > outgrows the tank we'll either get a bigger tank or give him away. > Apparantly though the water conditions were passable because all the fish > seem to be active and content. At the recomendation of the fish guy at the > store, we bought shrimp pellets instead of flake food. He said the pellets > don't gunk up the tank as much. > > My problem is that I'm not sure if the platies are eating the pellets. I'm > afraid that the pacu may be eating all the food and the platies aren't > getting enough nutrition. Should I buy flake food for them and continue to > feed the pellets to the pacu? Or should I wait a day or so more to see if > they look underfed? It has only been 2 days since we bought the fish. Also, > how often do I feed the fish? > > My second question is about plants. I'd prefer to use live plants and > natural or at least natural-looking decorations. When we first set up the > tank, we threw in 2 packets of plant bulbs. There were no instructions but > the packet said the bulbs were guaranteed to grow within 30 days. One of the > plants show growth so far. The others don't yet but they do show signs of > fungus. Is this a normal part of their growth or are these bulbs bad and I > should throw them out right away? Never having an aquarium before, I am > unsure about all of this. Can anyone give me a website to buy plants from? > The selection at all the stores in my area left very much to be desired > which is why I went with the bulbs to begin with. > > Any other information and/or tips for a beginner would be appreciated. > Thanks Melissa > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6/1230 - Release Date: 1/17/2008 > 4:59 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25435	From: Jodi Lynn Reeves	Date: 1/18/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group

Well, I found someone to take the fish, Grandma. I had to tell my children that they can visit them when ever they want to. I have taken down the tank and cleaned it. I am just going to store the tank and the stuff to go with it and wait until I can afford a bigger tank. I just wanted to let you know that the fish have been taken care of. Jodi in Herington.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25436	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/18/2008
Subject: Re: Beginner's questions

Can you tell us which tests you performed and what the readings were? Around here, we like numbers. It gives us a much better idea of what is going on. When you take a look at Lenny's blog, you need to learn about the Nitrogen, or Biological, cycle--I'm not sure how he has it labeled there, as I have never been. The fish guy of which you speak has done you a disservice by not recommending some readings before you start. While the web is a wonderful place, with information laying around all over, you do need to be able to discern which information is good, which is so-so, and which is out and out bad. There are any number of books he could have recommended to you prior to your setting up a tank and getting fish. I like the Baensch _Aquarium Atlas_ volume 1. It has a pretty good section on setting up and maintaining a tank. It has a short section on plants for and in the aquarium, and, above all, it has fish. Lots and lots of fish. Many fish you may never see in you r local store. Many fish that you will see in your local store. And with each fish, there is a brief descriptive section telling you about the fish and its needs. A little searching and you can find this book for around $40, much less if you check out the used book stores. Lenny already covered the pacu situation. If it actually a red bellied pacu, _Colossoma macropomum_, it will reach over 3 ft in length, which pretty much means it is already too big for your 10 gallon tank. However, it could be a redbelly piranha, _Pygocentrus nattereri_ or _Serrasalmus spilopleura_, which will only reach 8 or 13 inches depending on the exact species, either of which could make short work of other fish in the tank. And, there are other piranha that have red in their names. Tacking on the pacu descriptor justs makes it quasi legal to sell them in many jurisdictions, unless the animal control units have a guy that knows his fish. Correctly identifying a species by a common name is fraught with danger, especially in retail channels where names come and go until one is found to sell a fish. My guess is that the pacu is getting most of the food, so you need to watch them carefully when you feed. The platys will not eat much compared to the pacu, after all, he is a growing boy, and has a much larger stomach. Also, feed some vegetable matter. Both the platys and the pacu need it in their diets. I can picture the bulbs you have and how the grow in my mind, but the name escapes me right now. They are said to be easy to grow, but my experience with them has been the opposite, but hey, this is coming from a guy that cannot keep a certain easy beginner type of fish alive, never mind breed them, but has been successful with fish many would not even consider keeping because of the difficulty in doing so. As they say, your mileage may vary. So, get yourself a book. Get us the exact numbers on your test kits, along with the tests you are performing, so we can base our advice on some facts, and not just speculation. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Beginner's questions Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and to fish keeping in general. I don't know much yet but I have been reading and reading and reading trying to figure out what I'm doing here. I have 2 questions, one about fish food and one about live plants. We're using an old 10 gallon tank but we bought a new filter and a new heater. We plan on keeping a freshwater tropical tank. So far, we filled the tank with tap water and had the filter going for a couple of days, then we bought the heater and a beginners 2-pack of chemicals. I believe one bottle was water conditioner and one bottle was ammonia, nitrite, etc.. reducer. Well we added the chemicals and the heater and ran it a couple more days. After testing the water, we found that everything was high but not overly so, so we bought 3 fish to test out the water; 2 platies (1 possibly male red platy, and 1 possibly female mickey mouse platy) and 1 red-bellied pacu. I have since learned that pacus are a very large fish so if he lives and outgrows the tank we'll either get a bigger tank or give him away. Apparantly though the water conditions were passable because all the fish seem to be active and content. At the recomendation of the fish guy at the store, we bought shrimp pellets instead of flake food. He said the pellets don't gunk up the tank as much. My problem is that I'm not sure if the platies are eating the pellets. I'm afraid that the pacu may be eating all the food and the platies aren't getting enough nutrition. Should I buy flake food for them and continue to feed the pellets to the pacu? Or should I wait a day or so more to see if they look underfed? It has only been 2 days since we bought the fish. Also, how often do I feed the fish? My second question is about plants. I'd prefer to use live plants and natural or at least natural-looking decorations. When we first set up the tank, we threw in 2 packets of plant bulbs. There were no instructions but the packet said the bulbs were guaranteed to grow within 30 days. One of the plants show growth so far. The others don't yet but they do show signs of fungus. Is this a normal part of their growth or are these bulbs bad and I should throw them out right away? Never having an aquarium before, I am unsure about all of this. Can anyone give me a website to buy plants from? The selection at all the stores in my area left very much to be desired which is why I went with the bulbs to begin with. Any other information and/or tips for a beginner would be appreciated. Thanks Melissa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25437	From: bmp	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Mopani wood v. Swahala wood

Hi everyone, As I was reading catalogues, trying to find some good wood for use in my new tank I became aware that some places sell Mopani wood and some sell Swahala wood and both look the same to me (2 shades of brown with much gnarling and natural grooves in the wood). I know a little about Botswana and that part of Africa so I know a little about mopani trees and mopani worms (said to be delicious when fried, haha) but I've never before heard of Swahala wood. Are they in fact the same with different names just to make them sound different or more exotic? I"m just wondering as my mopani wood pieces sit in a bucket of water on the patio, releasing their tannins. Happy Saturday! I hope you can enjoy it all day long. Beverly Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25438	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group

I'm very new to truly serious fish keeping too -- my daughter has a 10 or 15 gallon tank w/ a single little fish in it; I'm the primary caretaker, but all that really means is that I remember to feed him and do partial water changes and periodically do a quick amonia test although he is by all accounts healthy and happy. However, I arrived here because I'm starting my own 100 gallon planted tank of cool water fishes -- but I've seen some beautiful 10 gallon planted tanks. You just have to watch what kinds of fish you get because of the whole size issue (as mentioned.) Pet store clerks don't even always realize that they're giving bad advice...we learned that when we bought the first round of fish for my daughter's tank... poor things didn't live long and I learned to do my own research before committing to taking care of something living. But anyway, what I wanted to say was don't give up! You can have a beautiful planted 10 gallon tank (and probably spend a lot less than I've got going so far!) As I understand it - and it seems to make sense -- it's better (on you) to get the plants in first, then add fish. Your plant choices will largely influence other choices (although your fish choices will influence your plant choices - since you want tropical fish, you'll need warm water plants as well.) Anyway - don't give up! Keep researching. If you do a couple of google searches on planted aquariums, you'll come up with some gorgeous planted tank photos, some of them very small. Remember, the smaller the tank the smaller the budget... (something I almost wish I'd thought of, but I'm too much a sucker for big fish -- as it is, I wish I had the money/space for a couple of 300 gallon tanks, but alas, turning my home into the neighbourhood aquarium isn't an option... sigh. I'll have to make due w/ one tank of medium sized fish. ;) Best of luck, Helen ps -- my experience as a 'terrestrial' gardner is that whenever possible I like to start w/ growing plants, not bulbs. I've heard/read that you can 'sprout' some of your aquatic plant bulbs first and then plant them and I may give that a try -- but whenever possible, I like to start w/ live, growing plants, preferrably purchased locally (although sometimes mail order is the only option.) It is rarely as easy to grow something from a bulb or seed as it says on the package -- I think that's just a marketing ploy "here, buy this, it's easy..." again, good luck and don't give up. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25439	From: William	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: Beginner's questions

Assuming that you have a pacu, you will not be able to have live plants in your tank because the pacu is like a living lawnmower. The plants that you have in bulb form are likely to be Aponogeton and/or Nymphaea or you night have some Crimum with them. I would leave the bulbs in the tank for a little longer because they might take a few weeks to sprout. but the pacu would keep them mowed down and you would not know if they do sprout. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Can you tell us which tests you performed and what the readings were? > Around here, we like numbers. It gives us a much better idea of what is > going on. > > When you take a look at Lenny's blog, you need to learn about the > Nitrogen, or Biological, cycle--I'm not sure how he has it labeled > there, as I have never been. > > The fish guy of which you speak has done you a disservice by not > recommending some readings before you start. While the web is a > wonderful place, with information laying around all over, you do need to > be able to discern which information is good, which is so-so, and which > is out and out bad. There are any number of books he could have > recommended to you prior to your setting up a tank and getting fish. I > like the Baensch _Aquarium Atlas_ volume 1. It has a pretty good section > on setting up and maintaining a tank. It has a short section on plants > for and in the aquarium, and, above all, it has fish. Lots and lots of > fish. Many fish you may never see in you r local store. Many fish that > you will see in your local store. And with each fish, there is a brief > descriptive section telling you about the fish and its needs. A little > searching and you can find this book for around $40, much less if you > check out the used book stores. > > Lenny already covered the pacu situation. If it actually a red bellied > pacu, _Colossoma macropomum_, it will reach over 3 ft in length, which > pretty much means it is already too big for your 10 gallon tank. > However, it could be a redbelly piranha, _Pygocentrus nattereri_ or > _Serrasalmus spilopleura_, which will only reach 8 or 13 inches > depending on the exact species, either of which could make short work of > other fish in the tank. And, there are other piranha that have red in > their names. Tacking on the pacu descriptor justs makes it quasi legal > to sell them in many jurisdictions, unless the animal control units have > a guy that knows his fish. Correctly identifying a species by a common > name is fraught with danger, especially in retail channels where names > come and go until one is found to sell a fish. > > My guess is that the pacu is getting most of the food, so you need to > watch them carefully when you feed. The platys will not eat much > compared to the pacu, after all, he is a growing boy, and has a much > larger stomach. Also, feed some vegetable matter. Both the platys and > the pacu need it in their diets. > > I can picture the bulbs you have and how the grow in my mind, but the > name escapes me right now. They are said to be easy to grow, but my > experience with them has been the opposite, but hey, this is coming from > a guy that cannot keep a certain easy beginner type of fish alive, never > mind breed them, but has been successful with fish many would not even > consider keeping because of the difficulty in doing so. As they say, > your mileage may vary. > > So, get yourself a book. Get us the exact numbers on your test kits, > along with the tests you are performing, so we can base our advice on > some facts, and not just speculation. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Melissa > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Beginner's questions > > Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and to fish keeping in general. I > don't know much yet but I have been reading and reading and reading > trying to figure out what I'm doing here. I have 2 questions, one > about fish food and one about live plants. > > We're using an old 10 gallon tank but we bought a new filter and a > new heater. We plan on keeping a freshwater tropical tank. So far, > we filled the tank with tap water and had the filter going for a > couple of days, then we bought the heater and a beginners 2-pack of > chemicals. I believe one bottle was water conditioner and one bottle > was ammonia, nitrite, etc.. reducer. Well we added the chemicals and > the heater and ran it a couple more days. > > After testing the water, we found that everything was high but not > overly so, so we bought 3 fish to test out the water; 2 platies (1 > possibly male red platy, and 1 possibly female mickey mouse platy) > and 1 red-bellied pacu. I have since learned that pacus are a very > large fish so if he lives and outgrows the tank we'll either get a > bigger tank or give him away. Apparantly though the water conditions > were passable because all the fish seem to be active and content. At > the recomendation of the fish guy at the store, we bought shrimp > pellets instead of flake food. He said the pellets don't gunk up the > tank as much. > > My problem is that I'm not sure if the platies are eating the > pellets. I'm afraid that the pacu may be eating all the food and the > platies aren't getting enough nutrition. Should I buy flake food for > them and continue to feed the pellets to the pacu? Or should I wait > a day or so more to see if they look underfed? It has only been 2 > days since we bought the fish. Also, how often do I feed the fish? > > My second question is about plants. I'd prefer to use live plants > and natural or at least natural-looking decorations. When we first > set up the tank, we threw in 2 packets of plant bulbs. There were no > instructions but the packet said the bulbs were guaranteed to grow > within 30 days. One of the plants show growth so far. The others > don't yet but they do show signs of fungus. Is this a normal part of > their growth or are these bulbs bad and I should throw them out > right away? Never having an aquarium before, I am unsure about all > of this. Can anyone give me a website to buy plants from? The > selection at all the stores in my area left very much to be desired > which is why I went with the bulbs to begin with. > > Any other information and/or tips for a beginner would be > appreciated. Thanks Melissa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25440	From: William	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: There is going to be a big aquarium auction on February 10

Hello this is to inform you that if you are in the Springfield Ma. area on February 10 you are invited to come to out giant aquarium club auction. You can get more information at http://www.pvas.net/html/index.php I hope to see a lot of you there. Walk in balance, William

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25441	From: rcdtrc	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: hi

i would like to know if its possible to keep an eel as a pet i know where to get them live theyre almost 2 ft long and like an inch in diameter they are brown orange in color the problem is the people there dont speek english and how can i know if its saltwater or fresh water and if it need cold or warm water they are sold there as food but you can get them live if you want

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25442	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: There is going to be a big aquarium auction on February 10

I'm almost tempted to go up. I'm out of kielbasa, and what better place to get some than Chicopee? Do they still serve the hot dogs at the auction? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 12:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] There is going to be a big aquarium auction on February 10 Hello this is to inform you that if you are in the Springfield Ma. area on February 10 you are invited to come to out giant aquarium club auction. You can get more information at http://www.pvas.net/html/index.php I hope to see a lot of you there. Walk in balance, William Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25443	From: James	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: hi

Hello and welcome to the group. You could buy eels I think only one could live in a tank and they are carnivores and they require big tanks. LiveAquaria <http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=ZRTEpOfmt7o&offerid=116952\ .10000011&type=3&subid=0> sells 30 different eels and they have information about each eel. James Your Fish Tank Guru <http://www.yourfishtankguru.com> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rcdtrc" <rcdtrc@...> wrote: > > i would like to know if its possible to keep an eel as a pet > i know where to get them live > theyre almost 2 ft long and like an inch in diameter > they are brown orange in color > the problem is the people there dont speek english and how can i know > if its saltwater or fresh water and if it need cold or warm water > they are sold there as food but you can get them live if you want > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25444	From: James	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: Need help picking fish for a new tank

Hello what I would do to see if fish are compatible at least is go to websites that sell Fish. I know very little about salt water tanks. Websites I know that sell Saltwater fish is LiveAquaria <http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=ZRTEpOfmt7o&offerid=116952\ .10000036&type=4&subid=0> which is where I actually buy my Tropical Fish. They have a simple computability chart on the site as well. If anybody knows about Saltwater tanks please email me I would like to learn more. James Your Fish Tank Guru <http://www.yourfishtankguru.com> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rsteph49" <rsteph49@...> wrote: > > I'm starting my first saltwater tank. I've got my live rock in and > going, so I'm ready to start adding fish. I've got a 20 gallon tank, > with 16 lbs of rock, and the crushed coral substrate I have about 16- > 17 gallons of actual water in it. > > I'm planning to get a skunk cleaner shrimp, and some kind of crab - > maybe emerald or crown hermit, and *maybe* a turbo snail or something > to cling to the sides. > > Other than that I figured 2-3 fish would sound about right. I'm > planning to get a common clown (since that seems to be a default > starter fish, and since my little nephew loves them). But I'm not > sure on what other type of fish to get. I've got a book and I've > marked a handful of fish that I might get; so I thought I'd come here > to get some suggestions. I'm look for essentially timid fish, that > are likely to get along with or ignore most other fish. > > Here's some of the other fish I was looking at: > Fijian blue-and-gold damselfish > Bluestreak cleaner wrasse > Royal gramma > Blackcap gramma > Swissguard basslet > Suntail goby > Randall's shrimp goby > Spangled shrimp goby > Multibanded (greenbanded) goby > Catalina goby > Antenna (hi-fin banded) goby > Purple firefish > Helfrich's (lavender) firefish > Flame firefish > Pink scooter dragonet ("blenny") > Psychedelic mandarin dragonet > Blue-and-orange cleaner pipefish > > Obviously I can't get all of these. I was thinking the clownfish, > some kind of goby or dragonet for the bottom, and then one of the > other type of fish (firefish, pipefish, wrasse, damselfish, gramma, > basslet) to swim around. Can anyone with a little more experience > than me offer up any suggestions on one or two of these that would > likely work well in my fish and rock only tank with a clownfish? Any > thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25445	From: rsteph49	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Can anyone suggest a good skimmer

I've got a 20 gallon tank, and I'm looking for a good, basic, protein skimmer. Can anyone suggest a brand/model and/or a good website to purchase one from. The pet stores around here all either sell skimmers that are way too big, or ones that I've heard from others isn't very good. I'd like something kind of basic and small, so it doesn't take up too much of my already somewhat limited tank space. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25446	From: dtrc rc	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: hi

thanks i think its an asian swamp eel it doesnt seem like people would keep it as a pet James <jim_d72@...> wrote: Hello and welcome to the group. You could buy eels I think only one could live in a tank and they are carnivores and they require big tanks. LiveAquaria <http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=ZRTEpOfmt7o&offerid=116952\ .10000011&type=3&subid=0> sells 30 different eels and they have information about each eel. James Your Fish Tank Guru <http://www.yourfishtankguru.com> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rcdtrc" <rcdtrc@...> wrote: > > i would like to know if its possible to keep an eel as a pet > i know where to get them live > theyre almost 2 ft long and like an inch in diameter > they are brown orange in color > the problem is the people there dont speek english and how can i know > if its saltwater or fresh water and if it need cold or warm water > they are sold there as food but you can get them live if you want > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25447	From: William	Date: 1/19/2008
Subject: Re: There is going to be a big aquarium auction on February 10

Of course there will be plenty of food for everyone and cheap too. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I'm almost tempted to go up. I'm out of kielbasa, and what better place to get some than Chicopee? Do they still serve the hot dogs at the auction? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 12:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] There is going to be a big aquarium auction on February 10 > > Hello this is to inform you that if you are in the Springfield Ma. area > on February 10 you are invited to come to out giant aquarium club > auction. You can get more information at > http://www.pvas.net/html/index.php > I hope to see a lot of you there. Walk in balance, > William > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25448	From: smallron77	Date: 1/20/2008
Subject: Fake Aquarium Rocks "So Light and So Real Looking"

Hi, I make Fake Aquarium Rocks that are Very Safe ,and Very Real Looking, I make them mainly as hobby, and I get plenty of comments "they are best they've Seen" They are all Hand made and much Lighter than Natural Rocks. Some have many Holes in them for the Fish to swim through, some have none, some have Caves for Hiding and Breeding. They can come in any Colour, mainly Blackish Grey or Reddish, ( when I say blackish grey etc. that colour may have 5 different colours thruout the Rock )...they can also have Fake Algae or not. Below are a couple of samples . Please take into acount that the Rocks them selves look heaps better than what the images show. If you are interested and want more info...Please Email or Phone me and I will send you a Link to a Website that has a lot more Images of the Rocks . I don't have facilities to post Overseas. I live in Sydney Australia. Thanks Ron......... ronsmall@... Mobile : 0407069992

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25449	From: Amy	Date: 1/20/2008
Subject: New to group

Hi my name is Amy and I am looking to see if this is the right group for me. I am a very beginner SW fishkeeper, but very experienced with fresh and brackish tanks. At this point in time this is what I have: 72 gal. SW with: 1-Snowflake Eel, 1-Red Lionfish, 1-Longtubed Anemone, and 5-Damsels that I used for cycling tank and they stayed alive...lol. 55 gal. Brackish with: 1-GS Puffer, 1-F8 Puffer, 2-SS Scats, and 1- Fan Dancer Goby (her mate died recently) ****note the GS Puffer and Fan Dancer are both 3 yrs old now and now need to be moved into fresh watr for retirement**** 55 gal. Empty: Possible Retirement home for Puffer and Goby 20 gal. Sick Tank 10 gal. Empty and thinking about those aquatic frogs (anyone know about these?) 5 gal. Ghost Shrimp Keeper (yes they are food) Anyways my fish are my pets. I love them because they interact with me so well. I can feed both my Puffers by hand. I love my lionfish, he eats about 4 times a day and when its time he will come up to the top corner of the tank and just sit there staring at me waiting for food. The eel is starting to come around. He comes out now when I am placing his food in and he almost went in the net and took his food out yesterday, instead of waiting for me to drop it. I am here to learn more about keeping my anemone alive and what other things I can put in that tank or if I can now that I have fish in there. I have heard so many different things and I am just lost now. Oh and live rock help. I have Fiji now.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25450	From: Angela	Date: 1/20/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] New to group

What kind of info are you needing regarding live rock? Fiji live rock is usually a very nice rock. -------Original Message------- From: Amy Date: 1/20/2008 4:43:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] New to group Hi my name is Amy and I am looking to see if this is the right group for me. I am a very beginner SW fishkeeper, but very experienced with fresh and brackish tanks. At this point in time this is what I have: 72 gal. SW with: 1-Snowflake Eel, 1-Red Lionfish, 1-Longtubed Anemone, and 5-Damsels that I used for cycling tank and they stayed alive...lol. 55 gal. Brackish with: 1-GS Puffer, 1-F8 Puffer, 2-SS Scats, and 1- Fan Dancer Goby (her mate died recently) ****note the GS Puffer and Fan Dancer are both 3 yrs old now and now need to be moved into fresh watr for retirement**** 55 gal. Empty: Possible Retirement home for Puffer and Goby 20 gal. Sick Tank 10 gal. Empty and thinking about those aquatic frogs (anyone know about these?) 5 gal. Ghost Shrimp Keeper (yes they are food) Anyways my fish are my pets. I love them because they interact with me so well. I can feed both my Puffers by hand. I love my lionfish, he eats about 4 times a day and when its time he will come up to the top corner of the tank and just sit there staring at me waiting for food. The eel is starting to come around. He comes out now when I am placing his food in and he almost went in the net and took his food out yesterday, instead of waiting for me to drop it. I am here to learn more about keeping my anemone alive and what other things I can put in that tank or if I can now that I have fish in there. I have heard so many different things and I am just lost now. Oh and live rock help. I have Fiji now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25451	From: Amy	Date: 1/20/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] New to group

Is it used mostly just for decoration or is there one better than the other and which is best with my anemone. Right now he has planted himself inside one of them but during the day he moves away from it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Angela" <asolomon1@...> wrote: > > What kind of info are you needing regarding live rock? Fiji live rock is > usually a very nice rock. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Amy > Date: 1/20/2008 4:43:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] New to group > > Hi my name is Amy and I am looking to see if this is the right group > for me. I am a very beginner SW fishkeeper, but very experienced > with fresh and brackish tanks. At this point in time this is what I > have: > > 72 gal. SW with: 1-Snowflake Eel, 1-Red Lionfish, 1-Longtubed > Anemone, and 5-Damsels that I used for cycling tank and they stayed > alive...lol. > > 55 gal. Brackish with: 1-GS Puffer, 1-F8 Puffer, 2-SS Scats, and 1- > Fan Dancer Goby (her mate died recently) ****note the GS Puffer and > Fan Dancer are both 3 yrs old now and now need to be moved into fresh > watr for retirement**** > > 55 gal. Empty: Possible Retirement home for Puffer and Goby > > 20 gal. Sick Tank > > 10 gal. Empty and thinking about those aquatic frogs (anyone know > about these?) > > 5 gal. Ghost Shrimp Keeper (yes they are food) > > Anyways my fish are my pets. I love them because they interact with > me so well. I can feed both my Puffers by hand. I love my lionfish, > he eats about 4 times a day and when its time he will come up to the > top corner of the tank and just sit there staring at me waiting for > food. The eel is starting to come around. He comes out now when I > am placing his food in and he almost went in the net and took his > food out yesterday, instead of waiting for me to drop it. I am here > to learn more about keeping my anemone alive and what other things I > can put in that tank or if I can now that I have fish in there. I > have heard so many different things and I am just lost now. Oh and > live rock help. I have Fiji now. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25452	From: Amy	Date: 1/20/2008
Subject: Re: New to group

Oh oops left out the turbo snail in the SW tank...oops I am always forgetting about him.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25453	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Pea Gravel

I recently acquired a new 29 gallon tank. Just wondering if pea gravel can be used in it (of course rinsing it like mad). 50 pounds of pea gravel at $2.35 compared to 25 pounds of aquarium gravel at $10.00. I bought the pea gravel but can always use it in my yard if it is not suggested for aquarium use (limestone issue?). Paula

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25454	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: Pea Gravel

I use pea gravel in my tanks. I buy it for $1 for a 7 gallon bucket full at the local redi-mix plant. I have had no problems with it for the last two years.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: browngip@...: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:45:52 -0500Subject: [AquaticLife] Pea Gravel I recently acquired a new 29 gallon tank. Just wondering if pea gravel can be used in it (of course rinsing it like mad). 50 pounds of pea gravel at $2.35 compared to 25 pounds of aquarium gravel at $10.00. I bought the pea gravel but can always use it in my yard if it is not suggested for aquarium use (limestone issue?).Paula [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25455	From: Amy	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: hi

I have a snowflake eel. He is just a baby right now and I am working with training him to eat in the same place. He goes crazy at feeding and has ran into the anemones a couple times so we are trying to solve that by teaching him to eat in teh same place on the other side of teh tank. He will reach an upwards of 24 inches when full grown. He is in a 72 gallon SW tank. Eels "can" be a very nasty pet. So far what I have learned, (and mind you mine is still a baby), they try to escape through the smallest openings like the filtration, they destroy the tank setup like rocks and anemones, they need at least 3" sand to be able to bury themselves in. So if you do consider an eel I would get a juvenile, make sure you have a sealed tank, and make sure you get an eel that wont grow into one of the 6 foot ones. As far as an eel for a pet.....I LOVE MINE. He is very active and leaves the other fish alone, quick learner. I would definetly consider getting a second one. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rcdtrc" <rcdtrc@...> wrote: > > i would like to know if its possible to keep an eel as a pet > i know where to get them live > theyre almost 2 ft long and like an inch in diameter > they are brown orange in color > the problem is the people there dont speek english and how can i know > if its saltwater or fresh water and if it need cold or warm water > they are sold there as food but you can get them live if you want >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25456	From: Amy	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: Beginner's questions

LOL About the Pacu. What an awesome fish to have, but yes he will require a huge tank. I wouldn't put one in anything less that 100 gallons. Eventually the Pacu will stop hoarding teh food from teh other fish and just eat the other fish. I just love pet stores that will sell you 2 platys and a Pacu without even questioning. If you do decide to keep him, they are magnificent. I can not find one where I live, nor do I have a tank big enough, but that is one on my wish list. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <waterlogged1214@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and to fish keeping in general. I > don't know much yet but I have been reading and reading and reading > trying to figure out what I'm doing here. I have 2 questions, one > about fish food and one about live plants. > > We're using an old 10 gallon tank but we bought a new filter and a > new heater. We plan on keeping a freshwater tropical tank. So far, > we filled the tank with tap water and had the filter going for a > couple of days, then we bought the heater and a beginners 2-pack of > chemicals. I believe one bottle was water conditioner and one bottle > was ammonia, nitrite, etc.. reducer. Well we added the chemicals and > the heater and ran it a couple more days. > > After testing the water, we found that everything was high but not > overly so, so we bought 3 fish to test out the water; 2 platies (1 > possibly male red platy, and 1 possibly female mickey mouse platy) > and 1 red-bellied pacu. I have since learned that pacus are a very > large fish so if he lives and outgrows the tank we'll either get a > bigger tank or give him away. Apparantly though the water conditions > were passable because all the fish seem to be active and content. At > the recomendation of the fish guy at the store, we bought shrimp > pellets instead of flake food. He said the pellets don't gunk up the > tank as much. > > My problem is that I'm not sure if the platies are eating the > pellets. I'm afraid that the pacu may be eating all the food and the > platies aren't getting enough nutrition. Should I buy flake food for > them and continue to feed the pellets to the pacu? Or should I wait > a day or so more to see if they look underfed? It has only been 2 > days since we bought the fish. Also, how often do I feed the fish? > > My second question is about plants. I'd prefer to use live plants > and natural or at least natural-looking decorations. When we first > set up the tank, we threw in 2 packets of plant bulbs. There were no > instructions but the packet said the bulbs were guaranteed to grow > within 30 days. One of the plants show growth so far. The others > don't yet but they do show signs of fungus. Is this a normal part of > their growth or are these bulbs bad and I should throw them out > right away? Never having an aquarium before, I am unsure about all > of this. Can anyone give me a website to buy plants from? The > selection at all the stores in my area left very much to be desired > which is why I went with the bulbs to begin with. > > Any other information and/or tips for a beginner would be > appreciated. Thanks Melissa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25457	From: Angela	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Re: hi

I had a blue ribbon eel for a while. Very cool to have. I was fairly confident that I had "sealed" my tank very well. Somehow he still got out and died. They're great to have but you really, REALLY have to be sure there are NO opening anywhere for them to get through. The only thing I could figure is that he must have gone through the tiny gap around the heater cord He also jumped when I got him home and was first putting him in. It was the funniest thing I've ever seen. He landed on my then 3yr olds head. The look on his face was priceless. LOL! Angela -------Original Message------- From: Amy Date: 1/21/2008 12:51:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Re: hi I have a snowflake eel. He is just a baby right now and I am working with training him to eat in the same place. He goes crazy at feeding and has ran into the anemones a couple times so we are trying to solve that by teaching him to eat in teh same place on the other side of teh tank. He will reach an upwards of 24 inches when full grown. He is in a 72 gallon SW tank. Eels "can" be a very nasty pet. So far what I have learned, (and mind you mine is still a baby), they try to escape through the smallest openings like the filtration, they destroy the tank setup like rocks and anemones, they need at least 3" sand to be able to bury themselves in. So if you do consider an eel I would get a juvenile, make sure you have a sealed tank, and make sure you get an eel that wont grow into one of the 6 foot ones. As far as an eel for a pet.....I LOVE MINE. He is very active and leaves the other fish alone, quick learner. I would definetly consider getting a second one. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rcdtrc" <rcdtrc@...> wrote: > > i would like to know if its possible to keep an eel as a pet > i know where to get them live > theyre almost 2 ft long and like an inch in diameter > they are brown orange in color > the problem is the people there dont speek english and how can i know > if its saltwater or fresh water and if it need cold or warm water > they are sold there as food but you can get them live if you want > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25458	From: rsteph49	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Question regarding algae growth in new tank

I've got a relatively new tank (approximately two weeks since I first added the live rock. It's a 20 gallon tank with about 16 gallons of water, and 16 lbs. of live rock, and (non-live) crushed coral substrate. I've got one clownfish in it right now. I noticed 2-3 days ago some brown forming on the rock, and since then the brown has grown to cover about a third of the top surface area of the rock. It almost has the appearance of rust. In the first 2-3 days that the live rock was in there (before I had any fish), I had some white fuzzy stuff growing on the rock, overtaking some green algae; it quickly stopped growing though, but has diminished any. I was curious if there were any good web resources regarding live rock and algae? Something that might help me to determine if what I'm seeing is good or bad. I've also got some little pock marks of purple showing up randomly (which I believe to be good). Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25459	From: Angela	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Question regarding algae growth in new tank

Umm... Ok.. Did you cycle the tank before you put anything in it? It takes about 6 weeks for the cycle to complete. Where did the live rock come from? Whenever you add anything you will go through another mini cycle. The brown stuff sounds like diatoms to me, which are a normal phase in the process of cycling. I would not touch anything. Let it run it's course. If you try to affect it you are likely to just set it back even further. What are you wanting to do with this tank? What kind of clowfish is it? A 20gal salt falls into the nano category so you may want to do some research on that topic. You will not be able to keep a lot of fish in a 20gal. I suggest checking our reecentral.com They have wonderful forums and a lot of great information. Good Luck! Angela -------Original Message------- From: rsteph49 Date: 01/21/08 13:31:20 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Question regarding algae growth in new tank I've got a relatively new tank (approximately two weeks since I first added the live rock. It's a 20 gallon tank with about 16 gallons of water, and 16 lbs. of live rock, and (non-live) crushed coral substrate. I've got one clownfish in it right now. I noticed 2-3 days ago some brown forming on the rock, and since then the brown has grown to cover about a third of the top surface area of the rock. It almost has the appearance of rust. In the first 2-3 days that the live rock was in there (before I had any fish), I had some white fuzzy stuff growing on the rock, overtaking some green algae; it quickly stopped growing though, but has diminished any. I was curious if there were any good web resources regarding live rock and algae? Something that might help me to determine if what I'm seeing is good or bad. I've also got some little pock marks of purple showing up randomly (which I believe to be good). Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25460	From: Amy	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Re: hi

Oh I'm sorry to hear that. Yes they are tricky little guys. I actually have taken visqueen(sp.) and taped it all around every hole. He has been trying to find a way out through the filter. When I first brought him home he would dart to the top of the tank as fast as he could trying to jump out, but he soon discovered he couldn't get out so he has stopped doing that. The next thing I am doing is taking his food in a net to the bottom of the tank and teaching him that food is down there, opposed to dropping it in and encouraging him to come to the top. He figured it out pretty quickly, the other day he almost took the food right out of the net. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Angela" <asolomon1@...> wrote: > > I had a blue ribbon eel for a while. Very cool to have. I was fairly > confident that I had "sealed" my tank very well. Somehow he still got out > and died. They're great to have but you really, REALLY have to be sure there > are NO opening anywhere for them to get through. The only thing I could > figure is that he must have gone through the tiny gap around the heater cord > He also jumped when I got him home and was first putting him in. It was the > funniest thing I've ever seen. He landed on my then 3yr olds head. The look > on his face was priceless. LOL! > Angela > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Amy > Date: 1/21/2008 12:51:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Re: hi > > I have a snowflake eel. He is just a baby right now and I am working > with training him to eat in the same place. He goes crazy at feeding > and has ran into the anemones a couple times so we are trying to solve > that by teaching him to eat in teh same place on the other side of teh > tank. He will reach an upwards of 24 inches when full grown. He is in > a 72 gallon SW tank. Eels "can" be a very nasty pet. So far what I > have learned, (and mind you mine is still a baby), they try to escape > through the smallest openings like the filtration, they destroy the > tank setup like rocks and anemones, they need at least 3" sand to be > able to bury themselves in. So if you do consider an eel I would get a > juvenile, make sure you have a sealed tank, and make sure you get an > eel that wont grow into one of the 6 foot ones. As far as an eel for a > pet.....I LOVE MINE. He is very active and leaves the other fish > alone, quick learner. I would definetly consider getting a second one. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rcdtrc" <rcdtrc@> wrote: > > > > i would like to know if its possible to keep an eel as a pet > > i know where to get them live > > theyre almost 2 ft long and like an inch in diameter > > they are brown orange in color > > the problem is the people there dont speek english and how can i know > > if its saltwater or fresh water and if it need cold or warm water > > they are sold there as food but you can get them live if you want > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25461	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: Pea Gravel

Yes it works fine and gives a tank a more "natural" appearance especially if you go with some driftwood and/or live plants. But don't go for the deep layer of gravel like many used in the "old" days unless you are going to have live plants but even then, the sub-substrate would be the thicker part with the gravel only being 1/2" thick or so. It's a lot easier to keep your gravel clean if it's 1/2" to 1" deep rather than the "old" 2" to 3" deep. If you want to add live plants, you could always use small planter pots so you still do not need the thick gravel which holds far too much detritus IMO. Why do you mention limestone? Limestone is a completely different rock material than pea gravel. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pea Gravel I recently acquired a new 29 gallon tank. Just wondering if pea gravel can be used in it (of course rinsing it like mad). 50 pounds of pea gravel at $2.35 compared to 25 pounds of aquarium gravel at $10.00. I bought the pea gravel but can always use it in my yard if it is not suggested for aquarium use (limestone issue?). Paula No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1234 - Release Date: 1/20/2008 2:15 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25462	From: rsteph49	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Question regarding algae growth in new tank

The tank is new. I had the water in there for 2-3 days before adding the live rock. I had the live rock in there for about a week and a half before adding the one fish. I added the one fish because I was told by a couple people that having 1 hardy fish in the tank will help with the cycling; I'm not sure of the exact accuracy of that, I've heard people on both sides (1 fish, or no fish). The live rock was purchased at a fish store in town here. It had a little green algae stuff on it in a few places, but not a lot. The substrate is not live sand, just crushed coral Argonite stuff. I'm planning now to leave the tank with the 1 fish for a month or so, to let it get through it's initial cycle. Ultimately I hope to have 2-3 fish, and some cleaning invertabrates in it. I've never had a saltwater tank before, just freshwater; so this tank is my first foray into saltwater tanks, to see if I can keep one up and running healthy - before I try to get a larger tank with more diverse and complicated fish, coral, etc.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25463	From: Curtis Taylor	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: Pea Gravel

Here is eastern North Carolina I have seen landscapers sell "pea gravel" which is basically crushed limestone. I have also seen it in home improvement stores packaged in bags and called "pea gravel" and it is also crushed limestone. The sizes are basically pea-sized or smaller. I have seen this type rock used as fill between laid down stones to make walks or "patios". The stones are laid down on top of the pea gravel for leveling and the gravel is used as fill between the joints of the laid down stones. This is used where the stones are not laid in concrete or any other type of mastic layer. Another name for pea gravel is basically very small river rock, smooth rounded stones the size of peas. Curt On Jan 21, 2008 3:23 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Yes it works fine and gives a tank a more "natural" appearance especially > if > you go with some driftwood and/or live plants. But don't go for the deep > layer of gravel like many used in the "old" days unless you are going to > have live plants but even then, the sub-substrate would be the thicker > part > with the gravel only being 1/2" thick or so. It's a lot easier to keep > your > gravel clean if it's 1/2" to 1" deep rather than the "old" 2" to 3" deep. > If you want to add live plants, you could always use small planter pots so > you still do not need the thick gravel which holds far too much detritus > IMO. > > Why do you mention limestone? Limestone is a completely different rock > material than pea gravel. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Paula Brown > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 11:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pea Gravel > > I recently acquired a new 29 gallon tank. Just wondering if pea gravel can > be used in it (of course rinsing it like mad). 50 pounds of pea gravel at > $2.35 compared to 25 pounds of aquarium gravel at $10.00. I bought the pea > gravel but can always use it in my yard if it is not suggested for > aquarium > use (limestone issue?). > > Paula > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1234 - Release Date: 1/20/2008 > 2:15 PM > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25464	From: Ken Sharpe	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: Pea Gravel

I have used pea gravel 4 of my aquariums, I uaed the small 1/4 inch natural type sold at Wal Mart. Tis is true, you must wash this several times. I have had no problems with this at all. It does look very nice with rocks and live plants. It is much cheaper than tank gravel, I paid 2.77 for a 50 lb bag. I was concerned about this in the beginning too. I called and spoke with the local fish experts in Greensborom at Aquamain's and they assured tha this was fine to use. Pastor Ken Sharpe Flowing River Fellowship Level Cross, NC --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <browngip@...> wrote: > > I recently acquired a new 29 gallon tank. Just wondering if pea gravel can be used in it (of course rinsing it like mad). 50 pounds of pea gravel at $2.35 compared to 25 pounds of aquarium gravel at $10.00. I bought the pea gravel but can always use it in my yard if it is not suggested for aquarium use (limestone issue?). > > Paula >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25465	From: Angela	Date: 1/21/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Question regarding algae growth

Ok... I personally don't cycle with fish cuase I don't agree with it. You can also get a saltwater tank to cycle by dropping a couple shrimp from the grocery store in it. Anyways.. Honestly you'd be better off to start bigger if you want to do that eventually. A smaller tank is much harder to keep stable than a larger one. Nano sized tanks are usually only successful for people who's had a lot of experience. Basically the smaller the water volume the less it takes to become unstable. Do you have a good master test kit? You'll need to be testing every 1-2 days to watch your cycle. Do not clean the tank or remove an algae during this process. Good luck! -------Original Message------- From: rsteph49 Date: 1/21/2008 3:38:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Question regarding algae growth in new tank The tank is new. I had the water in there for 2-3 days before adding the live rock. I had the live rock in there for about a week and a half before adding the one fish. I added the one fish because I was told by a couple people that having 1 hardy fish in the tank will help with the cycling; I'm not sure of the exact accuracy of that, I've heard people on both sides (1 fish, or no fish). The live rock was purchased at a fish store in town here. It had a little green algae stuff on it in a few places, but not a lot. The substrate is not live sand, just crushed coral Argonite stuff. I'm planning now to leave the tank with the 1 fish for a month or so, to let it get through it's initial cycle. Ultimately I hope to have 2-3 fish, and some cleaning invertabrates in it. I've never had a saltwater tank before, just freshwater; so this tank is my first foray into saltwater tanks, to see if I can keep one up and running healthy - before I try to get a larger tank with more diverse and complicated fish, coral, etc. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25466	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/22/2008
Subject: Pea Gravel

Lenny asked: "Why do you mention limestone? Limestone is a completely different rock material than pea gravel." I asked my boyfriend about pea gravel and he mentioned limestone. He didn't know for sure but thought the local landscaping business told him about the limestone when he bought some pea gravel for around his outdoor pond. Sounds like Curt has experienced this also. I bought the bag at Lowe's - I will have to look at the back and see if it mentions limestone. Right now it is still too frozen to move (lovely Michigan weather!). If there is limestone in it, would that be a problem? Paula

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25467	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2008
Subject: Re: Pea Gravel

Apparently some pea gravel is being sold that is merely broken up limestone. I always considered pea gravel to be small river rock, around the size of a pea, which are very hard and do not leach. I guess someone decided that breaking up limestone to the same size could be sold as pea gravel also. According to my WordWeb Desktop Dictionary... Gravel - Rock fragments and pebbles Limestone - A sedimentary rock consisting mainly of calcium that was deposited by the remains of marine animals I guess, according to those definitions, gravel could be broken up limestone "rock fragments" but I always considered gravel to be river rocks or Pebbles (maybe from a larger rock subjected to "Bam Bam"... lol... it's early so corny Flintstone's puns are allowed). Down here, all of my customers refer to limestone as limestone and gravel as gravel (small rocks) with pea gravel being one of the smaller sizes of rocks. As you can see from the definition, limestone is mainly calcium based and will leach calcium into the water making it much harder so it will affect the water chemistry so it may not be a good substrate for certain fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 8:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pea Gravel Lenny asked: "Why do you mention limestone? Limestone is a completely different rock material than pea gravel." I asked my boyfriend about pea gravel and he mentioned limestone. He didn't know for sure but thought the local landscaping business told him about the limestone when he bought some pea gravel for around his outdoor pond. Sounds like Curt has experienced this also. I bought the bag at Lowe's - I will have to look at the back and see if it mentions limestone. Right now it is still too frozen to move (lovely Michigan weather!). If there is limestone in it, would that be a problem? Paula No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.8 - Release Date: 1/21/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25468	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/22/2008
Subject: Neons/Endlers

I will be setting up another tank shortly (29 gallon) and am thinking that a live planted tank with neons/cardinals (what is the difference between a neon and a cardinal?) and endlers might be pretty. Does anybody see anything wrong with that scenario? Any other suggestions as to what might look nice in there? I wanted angels but I know the tank is too small for them and I really haven't had a lot of luck with them in the past. I already have a community tank (55 gallon) that has the mix of tetras/danios/etc. so I wanted to make this tank just one or two different breeds. No chiclids for me! Also, would neons/cardinals or endlers bother a male betta if I put one in there? I just wondered because they are all colorful fish and didn't know if the male betta might take that as a sign to nip. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25469	From: bmp	Date: 1/22/2008
Subject: Re: Neons/Endlers

This grouping sounds lovely to me. Some will say that neons and cardinals need soft, somewhat acidic water and endler's (being livebearers) need harder water but I have found that neons do just fine in my naturally hard, alkaline water because the tanks where they are kept at the shop have the same water source (local tap water). The difference between cardinals and neons is that the neons' red stripe is about half as long as their bodies; the cardinals' stripe is full-length. The cardinals also grow a bit larger but also have a reputation of being rather more delicate. They are also more expensive. I have not tried cardinals partly because of this feeling that they are more delicate but also because I am such a fan of neons that they suit me just fine! As for the male betta you are considering, I don't believe the neons or Endler's would bother it but you might have a problem the other way around, depending on how tiny your neons & Endler's are. Finally, I would suggest you have some sort of bottom feeder. I am also a fan of corydoras catfish--they are peaceful, cute and a great size. Members of the same species will school so you might take care that you are buying only the same kind, if you like watching them school. If all goes well with your plants and fish, you will have a beautiful tank! I'd love to see it sometime, ha. Beverly --- Paula Brown <browngip@...> wrote: > I will be setting up another tank shortly (29 > gallon) and am thinking that a live planted tank > with neons/cardinals (what is the difference between > a neon and a cardinal?) and endlers might be pretty. > Does anybody see anything wrong with that scenario? > > Any other suggestions as to what might look nice in > there? I wanted angels but I know the tank is too > small for them and I really haven't had a lot of > luck with them in the past. I already have a > community tank (55 gallon) that has the mix of > tetras/danios/etc. so I wanted to make this tank > just one or two different breeds. No chiclids for > me! > > Also, would neons/cardinals or endlers bother a male > betta if I put one in there? I just wondered > because they are all colorful fish and didn't know > if the male betta might take that as a sign to nip. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25470	From: Vanessa	Date: 1/22/2008
Subject: Hey thats my turtle!

Just stopped in to see how everyone was doing and I got a nice surprise. Thats MY turtle on the home page. Thanks for putting Flashs picture up!!! Vanessa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25471	From: harry perry	Date: 1/22/2008
Subject: Re: Hey thats my turtle!/Vanessa

Great name for a turtle. Harry Vanessa <nessa1880@...> wrote: Just stopped in to see how everyone was doing and I got a nice surprise. Thats MY turtle on the home page. Thanks for putting Flashs picture up!!! Vanessa Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25472	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: fish stores....

This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid behind the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about it after we left, or I probably would have given the kid an earfull.) Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd understand... although if there is an organization or whatever I can call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me know. Helen. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25473	From: Bethany	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

I have, but it was a PET Store. I walked in and the first thing I noticed was the cats didnt have drinking water and were CLEARLY dehydrated.I made the employee get the cats some water. Then I noticed the rodents cages were dirty and disgusting, thick with fecal matter. I went back to the fish area and found Betas and tiny bags in a tbsp of water. I couldn't take anymore. I was so upset it made me cry. I called my son in law who works for animal services and he told me what to do. When we went by again the Pet store was closed. I don't know if it was because of my call or several but I hope those animals are safe now. Call Animal services in your area, they may be able to tell you something. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid behind the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about it after we left, or I probably would have given the kid an earfull.) > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd understand... although if there is an organization or whatever I can call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me know. > > Helen. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25474	From: Bethany	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Turtle Tank

I am just curious on what everyone thinks ( or KNOWS) is the best size aquarium for a small turtle about a year old.( He is a Slider). I have him in a 20 gallon he seems happy.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25475	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle Tank

It all depends on the size of the turtle itself. Normally for a small turtle (under 4") a 20 gallon is fine. For 4" and larger I suggest going larger. This is a species that will easily get 8"-10" and will require at least a 60 gallon breeder tank. My friend has one living in a 75 gallon. I have another friend who has a slider living hapily in a 200 gallon indoor pond., amazingly the turtle never leaves the pond to roam the room, he will just get on the rocks around it and bask occasionally. --- Bethany <swtsssysxy@...> wrote: > I am just curious on what everyone thinks ( or > KNOWS) is the best size > aquarium for a small turtle about a year old.( He is > a Slider). I have > him in a 20 gallon he seems happy. > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25476	From: Bethany	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle Tank

He is definitely under 4 inches. Thanks !! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Walker <playnwifsnot@...> wrote: > > It all depends on the size of the turtle itself. > Normally for a small turtle (under 4") a 20 gallon is > fine. For 4" and larger I suggest going larger. This > is a species that will easily get 8"-10" and will > require at least a 60 gallon breeder tank. My friend > has one living in a 75 gallon. I have another friend > who has a slider living hapily in a 200 gallon indoor > pond., amazingly the turtle never leaves the pond to > roam the room, he will just get on the rocks around it > and bask occasionally. > > > --- Bethany <swtsssysxy@...> wrote: > > > I am just curious on what everyone thinks ( or > > KNOWS) is the best size > > aquarium for a small turtle about a year old.( He is > > a Slider). I have > > him in a 20 gallon he seems happy. > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25477	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

Sure, you could contact your closest A.S.P.C.A. (American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals), or your state's Humane Society of America. While their concern is mainly with large animals (cats, dogs, etc.), they're always interested in coming down hard, on major abuses of this nature of most any kind when pet shops and similar establishments are involved. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid behind the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about it after we left, or I probably would have given the kid an earfull.) > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd understand... although if there is an organization or whatever I can call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me know. > > Helen. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25478	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Cycling Question/Pea Gravel Again

Man, I am just full of questions!!<G> I will be setting up my new 29 gallon tank this weekend. I have come up with a few questions: 1. The gravel is new (the pea gravel previously discussed) but I will be using 80% of the water from an established tank (set up for around 10 years with regular PWC's). 2. I will be adding many live plants to it right away. 3. I will be adding a new hang on the back filter to it and I don't think my established filters from my other tanks will work with this one so it will be a new filter. 4. I had planned on putting some established gravel from another tank into the new tank in a pantyhose (suggestions?) or something to help things out. 5. I have a master test kit that I will be testing the water with of course. My question is, with the above scenario, how long could this last without adding any fish? Could I get a week or two of being fishless with just the established water and live plants? And if so, is there a good chance that I could then add some fish after a week or two and they would be okay? Last question: Are there any handy tricks/tips/hints for washing this pea gravel? OMG - I have four pots of the stuff that I keep putting through the strainer, letting it soak in hot water, pouring out brown water, repeating over and over again. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25479	From: tonya shriver	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

I totally agree with you. Why open a pet store if you cant maintain a clean facility. I have a fish store I go to and love it. I use to buy all my stuff from Petsmart for my fish aquarium. Well needless to say not anymore.I got tired of buying fish that was swimimng with dead ones or come home and would have ick from the fish that i bought from them.Then they would denie it after looking in their tanks and being descusted. ----- Original Message ---- From: Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:26:39 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] fish stores.... This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid behind the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about it after we left, or I probably would have given the kid an earfull.) Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd understand.. . although if there is an organization or whatever I can call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me know. Helen. ------------ --------- --------- --- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25480	From: bruce cohen	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: fish stores Run Run Run away

after going to my local fish store and being told that the sea water that they sell is natural sea water and they buy it from catalina water. But when I checked with that vendor they told me they dont sell it to the store that said it was. I have been having a lot of problems caused of the fact that it was not including the calcium is low and the alkalinty low not able to get the kits to check the peramiters the store has earned the name total rip off as far as I care. the local fish club has even told me how bad they are. esp since they are selling 90%of their store is devoted to salt water fish they happen to be the only one in my area i have to go to the next city appx 4-6 miles away. just for NATURAL SEA WATER. But they do not sell reef safe animals . Just the dry goods for the reefs to get my animals I have to buy mine online, in case any one wonders how I found the vendor thanks to the information age they even told me that where they sell it to so that I can get it from them. Bruce

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25481	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling Question/Pea Gravel Again

1. Water from an established tank has very little, if any, nitrifying bacteria in it. The main benefit you would get from using established water would be when transferring fish into a new tank so their water parameters stay the same so they don't have to deal with osmoregulatory shock or stress. 2. Live plants are good in almost all cases. 3. Once you add fish to the tank, or right before, you could take the filter media or cartridge from the existing tank and either put the entire cartridge in the reservoir of the new filter system or squeeze some of the "juice" out of the old filter into the reservoir of the new filter and that will at least get some of the nitrifying bacteria into the new filter media so it can start multiplying. 4. Helps also but only right before or after you add fish. 5. Good! The nitrifying bacteria will start dying after a few hours with no source of ammonia as food so they would not last a week or two. Wait until you are about to add the fish or right after adding the fish to "seed" your filter and gravel. I would fill the strainer with one batch and run it under the faucet or garden hose until it's running clear. Then do a second batch, etc. After you add it to the tank, since you mention you won't be adding fish right away, any sediment that you missed will settle back down into the gravel and should not be an issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 10:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling Question/Pea Gravel Again Man, I am just full of questions!!<G> I will be setting up my new 29 gallon tank this weekend. I have come up with a few questions: 1. The gravel is new (the pea gravel previously discussed) but I will be using 80% of the water from an established tank (set up for around 10 years with regular PWC's). 2. I will be adding many live plants to it right away. 3. I will be adding a new hang on the back filter to it and I don't think my established filters from my other tanks will work with this one so it will be a new filter. 4. I had planned on putting some established gravel from another tank into the new tank in a pantyhose (suggestions?) or something to help things out. 5. I have a master test kit that I will be testing the water with of course. My question is, with the above scenario, how long could this last without adding any fish? Could I get a week or two of being fishless with just the established water and live plants? And if so, is there a good chance that I could then add some fish after a week or two and they would be okay? Last question: Are there any handy tricks/tips/hints for washing this pea gravel? OMG - I have four pots of the stuff that I keep putting through the strainer, letting it soak in hot water, pouring out brown water, repeating over and over again. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1238 - Release Date: 1/22/2008 8:12 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25482	From: Bethany	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Goldfish and Turtles compatible??

I recently aquired 3 beautiful goldfish. Is it safe to put them in the same tank as my 2 inch slider or should I give them their own tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25483	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Substrate Question

Another question!<G> In all of my other live planted tanks, I just have gravel on the bottom. My plants seem to thrive in it. But now that I am setting up a new tank, I am wondering if I should add a substrate. If it sounds like I know what I am talking about, you would be wrong!<G> I have no idea what substrate even means, let alone what its positives would be or what type to choose. Is this something that goes under the gravel that won't be swept up with cleaning the gravel? I assume it is a benefit for the growing plants? Is this something you get from a LFS or a pet chain store? Thanks! Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25484	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate Question

A good substrate is absolutely essential to great plant growth. My personal favorite is ADA aquasoil but you will most likely have to order it online. Eco-complete is more readily available and a good choice as well. Do you think you're going to do CO2? Kate Paula Brown <browngip@...> wrote: Another question!<G> In all of my other live planted tanks, I just have gravel on the bottom. My plants seem to thrive in it. But now that I am setting up a new tank, I am wondering if I should add a substrate. If it sounds like I know what I am talking about, you would be wrong!<G> I have no idea what substrate even means, let alone what its positives would be or what type to choose. Is this something that goes under the gravel that won't be swept up with cleaning the gravel? I assume it is a benefit for the growing plants? Is this something you get from a LFS or a pet chain store? Thanks! Paula in Monroe, Michigan --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25485	From: rcdtrc	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Turtles compatible??

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bethany" <swtsssysxy@...> wrote: > > I recently aquired 3 beautiful goldfish. Is it safe to put them in the > same tank as my 2 inch slider or should I give them their own tank. > eventually it will kill them when it gets bigger

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25486	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Substrate Question

Well, gravel is also a substrate. The substrate is basically any kind of earthen matter or it could be marbles, etc., on the bottom of your tank. Here's a page that will walk you through some of the basic substrates for planted tanks. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_substrate.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 3:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate Question Another question!<G> In all of my other live planted tanks, I just have gravel on the bottom. My plants seem to thrive in it. But now that I am setting up a new tank, I am wondering if I should add a substrate. If it sounds like I know what I am talking about, you would be wrong!<G> I have no idea what substrate even means, let alone what its positives would be or what type to choose. Is this something that goes under the gravel that won't be swept up with cleaning the gravel? I assume it is a benefit for the growing plants? Is this something you get from a LFS or a pet chain store? Thanks! Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1238 - Release Date: 1/22/2008 8:12 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1238 - Release Date: 1/22/2008 8:12 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25487	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish and Turtles compatible??

NO! The turtle will eat the goldfish while they are sleeping. While fish and turtles co-exist in nature, they are usually in much larger waters and the turtle still eats some of the fish. This usually isn't acceptable for pets. I think someone else already mentioned (and I think I did also) that you will NEED a much larger tank for your turtle and the goldfish need a much larger tank also. If they are fancy goldfish, you can get by with 30G per fish. If they are long bodied goldfish, then you need 50-75G per fish since they are much bigger swimmers. If you are going to try and keep them all together, then you would need a several hundred gallon tank or pond and even then, the turtle may end up eating the goldfish... especially the round-bodied variety which are much slower swimmers and may not be able to get away from the turtle as easily but even the long bodied ones may get caught by him. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bethany Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish and Turtles compatible?? I recently aquired 3 beautiful goldfish. Is it safe to put them in the same tank as my 2 inch slider or should I give them their own tank. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1238 - Release Date: 1/22/2008 8:12 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25488	From: jabugladybug	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: How to get nitrate level down

Hi guys, my husband and I are new to saltwater tanks. We have a 8 week old, 14 gal, Biocube. Up until now, all readings have been great. In the last few days, Nitrate level is high (20). My question is, is there any other method, besides water change, that we should be using to get the level down? My husband has done some online research, but everything seems to point to water changes...which is fine, but we wonder if we need to do something more. Many thanks, Donna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25489	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

If you are like most of us, to find a really good fish store, you will probably need to drive some distance. It really is too bad, but that seems to be a fact of life. There is a good one about 45 minutes from me, without traffic. Unfortunately, there usually is traffic, so the drive is likely to take an hour or more. There is another one about 1 1/2 hours from me, and there is one 2 1/2 hours from me, again, without traffic. The last, it is easier to make some time, once I get out of the metropolitan area here. Then, there is also the problem that good stores can go into a decline, and become not so good stores. One example is a store I used to frequent through the 70's into the 80's. The owner then retired and sold the store. The high standards were maintained for a while, but slowly, the store declined. I don't know if the store is still there or not, I moved out of the area more than 10 years ago, and have not had the need to go through that area when I have been visiting parents and friends. There is another store in the same area as the last. It could either be very good, or very bad, or somewhere in between. The store was owned by a fellow who also owned a wholesale fish business nearby. I suspect the quality has to do with the amount of time he spent with his wholesale business. I guess the moral of the story is that you just need to look, and keep looking, even if you have found someone you are satisfied with, since tomorrow, they may disappoint you. It also has become more problematic with the entry and expansion of the big box stores into the market. They come in with low prices and drive the mom and pops out of business, and then their prices go up, and I am now seeing a reduction is stock selection at those stores as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Pattskyn Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fish stores.... This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid behind the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about it after we left, or I probably would have given the kid an earfull.) Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd understand... although if there is an organization or whatever I can call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me know. Helen.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25490	From: bmp	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

Until you mentioned losing your faith in local stores, I thought you were talking about WalMart. I hear their fish live in pitifully kept tanks. But I also read that all WalMart stores will stop selling pet fish sometime soon, if not already. Can anyone else verify this? I quit shopping at WalMart a few years ago for various reasons so I haven't been in one to know for myself. I am aware there have been online petitions protesting WalMart's horrible conditions for their fish but don't know if this is truly a current problem or not. Beverly --- Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > This isn't really related to anything, but... has > anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt > so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a > shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the > fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... > is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a > crusader or anything, but I went into this place > yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower > when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. > The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the > trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local > outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was > tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the > other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw > was when the kid behind the counter told my husband > how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim > upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby > told me about it after we left, or I probably would > have given the kid an earfull.) > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed > somebody who'd understand... although if there is an > organization or whatever I can call to report a > hideously poorly maintained store, please let me > know. > > Helen. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25491	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling Question/Pea Gravel Again

Paula, 1. The source of the water does not really matter, unless, as lenny has pointed out, you are moving fish into the new tank that have lived with the old water you will be using. 2. I do not see any problem with that. 3. Not a problem, but it will increase the amount of time it will take the tank to cycle. Lenny's suggestion may help add more bacteria to the new filter, but it just is not the same as actually using filter material from the older filter. 4. This will help some, but if the material is not currently used as a filter, with water flowing through it, it would only be a guess as to how much it will help. 5. Way to go girl. Question 1/2. Without a source of ammonia, the bacteria you are adding to the tank will start to hibernate and die off. To keep the activity going, you will need a source of ammonia. Read up on doing a fishless cycle with ammonia from a bottle. Question 3. Add the fish relatively quickly, and you will have some sort of mini-cycle. The length and depth will depend on the ammonia they produce and the number of active bacteria available to handle it. Without an ammonia source, by two weeks, you will have a regular cycle starting up, virtually from scratch. It would depend on the fish, and how well they can handle nitrogenous waste, whether they will weather the storm, so to speak. Question 4. The way I normally wash any sort of gravel is to place an amount in a Rubbermaid type pail, and run water into it while swirling the gravel around to loosen anything attached to the gravel and to allow loose dust and such to be picked up by the water and go down the drain or into the garden, depending on the weather and time of day. (warm weather and daylight, outdoors, otherwise, indoors) Run and swirl until the water runs clear. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling Question/Pea Gravel Again Man, I am just full of questions!!<G> I will be setting up my new 29 gallon tank this weekend. I have come up with a few questions: 1. The gravel is new (the pea gravel previously discussed) but I will be using 80% of the water from an established tank (set up for around 10 years with regular PWC's). 2. I will be adding many live plants to it right away. 3. I will be adding a new hang on the back filter to it and I don't think my established filters from my other tanks will work with this one so it will be a new filter. 4. I had planned on putting some established gravel from another tank into the new tank in a pantyhose (suggestions?) or something to help things out. 5. I have a master test kit that I will be testing the water with of course. My question is, with the above scenario, how long could this last without adding any fish? Could I get a week or two of being fishless with just the established water and live plants? And if so, is there a good chance that I could then add some fish after a week or two and they would be okay? Last question: Are there any handy tricks/tips/hints for washing this pea gravel? OMG - I have four pots of the stuff that I keep putting through the strainer, letting it soak in hot water, pouring out brown water, repeating over and over again. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25492	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

I cannot confirm that they will be stopping altogether, but I have seen some stores stop selling fish and heard of many others stopping last year. -Mike Until you mentioned losing your faith in local stores, I thought you were talking about WalMart. I hear their fish live in pitifully kept tanks. But I also read that all WalMart stores will stop selling pet fish sometime soon, if not already. Can anyone else verify this? I quit shopping at WalMart a few years ago for various reasons so I haven't been in one to know for myself. I am aware there have been online petitions protesting WalMart's horrible conditions for their fish but don't know if this is truly a current problem or not. Beverly -----Original Message----- From: bmp <bmpardue@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 7:20 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish stores....WalMart?? Until you mentioned losing your faith in local stores, I thought you were talking about WalMart. I hear their fish live in pitifully kept tanks. But I also read that all WalMart stores will stop selling pet fish sometime soon, if not already. Can anyone else verify this? I quit shopping at WalMart a few years ago for various reasons so I haven't been in one to know for myself. I am aware there have been online petitions protesting WalMart's horrible conditions for their fish but don't know if this is truly a current problem or not. Beverly --- Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > This isn't really related to anything, but... has > anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt > so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a > shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the > fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... > is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a > crusader or anything, but I went into this place > yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower > when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. > The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the > trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local > outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was > tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the > other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw > was when the kid behind the counter told my husband > how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim > upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby > told me about it after we left, or I probably would > have given the kid an earfull.) > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed > somebody who'd understand... although if there is an > organization or whatever I can call to report a > hideously poorly maintained store, please let me > know. > > Helen. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Peace, please! __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25493	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

We need to clarify something here. The Humane Society of the United States does not have any affiliation whatsoever with any other humane society in the United States. Your local Humane Sopciety has no Affiliation with the HSUS (See above), They are seperate entities. If you donate to your local Humane Society your are doing good things in your local community, helping pets in your area. If you donate money to the HSUS you are giving money to a group that does not have one single shelter in the United States. Your money goes to a group that tries to pass insidious laws that are already taking your right to animal ownership away from you.  "Buried deep within HSUS’s website is a disclaimer noting that the group “is not affiliated with, nor is it a parent organization for, local humane societies, animal shelters, or animal care and control agencies. These are independent organizations … HSUS does not operate or have direct control over any animal shelter.” This link has a lot of information about the HSUS. http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm -Mike  or your state's Humane Society of America. While their concern is mainly with large animals (cats, dogs, etc.), they're always interested in coming down hard, on major abuses of this nature of most any kind when pet shops and similar establishments are involved. Ray -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 7:06 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... Sure, you could contact your closest A.S.P.C.A. (American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals), or your state's Humane Society of America. While their concern is mainly with large animals (cats, dogs, etc.), they're always interested in coming down hard, on major abuses of this nature of most any kind when pet shops and similar establishments are involved. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid behind the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about it after we left, or I probably would have given the kid an earfull.) > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd understand... although if there is an organization or whatever I can call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me know. > > Helen. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25494	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

The link given below is incomplete. The full link is: http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/136 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... We need to clarify something here. The Humane Society of the United States does not have any affiliation whatsoever with any other humane society in the United States. Your local Humane Sopciety has no Affiliation with the HSUS (See above), They are seperate entities. If you donate to your local Humane Society your are doing good things in your local community, helping pets in your area. If you donate money to the HSUS you are giving money to a group that does not have one single shelter in the United States. Your money goes to a group that tries to pass insidious laws that are already taking your right to animal ownership away from you.  "Buried deep within HSUS’s website is a disclaimer noting that the group “is not affiliated with, nor is it a parent organization for, local humane societies, animal shelters, or animal care and control agencies. These are independent organizations … HSUS does not operate or have direct control over any animal shelter.” This link has a lot of information about the HSUS. http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm -Mike  or your state's Humane Society of America. While their concern is mainly with large animals (cats, dogs, etc.), they're always interested in coming down hard, on major abuses of this nature of most any kind when pet shops and similar establishments are involved. Ray -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 7:06 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... Sure, you could contact your closest A.S.P.C.A. (American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals), or your state's Humane Society of America. While their concern is mainly with large animals (cats, dogs, etc.), they're always interested in coming down hard, on major abuses of this nature of most any kind when pet shops and similar establishments are involved. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid behind the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about it after we left, or I probably would have given the kid an earfull.) > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd understand... although if there is an organization or whatever I can call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me know. > > Helen. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25495	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

Thak you Steve! -Mike The link given below is incomplete. The full link is: http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/136 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 8:18 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... The link given below is incomplete. The full link is: http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/136 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... We need to clarify something here. The Humane Society of the United States does not have any affiliation whatsoever with any other humane society in the United States. Your local Humane Sopciety has no Affiliation with the HSUS (See above), They are seperate entities. If you donate to your local Humane Society your are doing good things in your local community, helping pets in your area. If you donate money to the HSUS you are giving money to a group that does not have one single shelter in the United States. Your money goes to a group that tries to pass insidious laws that are already taking your right to animal ownership away from you.  "Buried deep within HSUS’s website is a disclaimer noting that the group “is not affiliated with, nor is it a parent organization for, local humane societies, animal shelters, or animal care and control agencies. These are independent organizations … HSUS does not operate or have direct control over any animal shelter.” This link has a lot of information about the HSUS. http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm -Mike  or your state's Humane Society of America. While their concern is mainly with large animals (cats, dogs, etc.), they're always interested in coming down hard, on major abuses of this nature of most any kind when pet shops and similar establishments are involved. Ray -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 7:06 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... Sure, you could contact your closest A.S.P.C.A. (American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals), or your state's Humane Society of America. While their concern is mainly with large animals (cats, dogs, etc.), they're always interested in coming down hard, on major abuses of this nature of most any kind when pet shops and similar establishments are involved. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid behind the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about it after we left, or I probably would have given the kid an earfull.) > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd understand... although if there is an organization or whatever I can call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me know. > > Helen. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > __________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25496	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

I don't think Wal-Mart fish departments are systemically bad. I am sure there are isolated cases where the manager of the store is lax in his/her supervision and management so that one or more departments suffer in quality and customer service. This lack of proper management and/or lackadaisical management is endemic and systemic in any and all businesses... both large and small. Too many managers are like parents nowadays and want to be liked by all of their employees (like a parent wants to be friends with their kids) therefore, proper leadership and discipline is severely lacking. When an employee sees that the manager doesn't care, the trickle down effect is horrendous to the rest of the business' operations. Wal-Mart, simply because they are Wal-Mart, are criticized, scrutinized and reported on far more heavily than a comparable mom & pop operation. The fact is that any business in any industry can have both good and bad operations from one outlet to the next, and even from one shift to the next, depending on who is in charge at the time, whether it is a locally owned mom & pop business or a chain outlet of a major retail corporation like Wal-Mart. The online petitions are generally driven by over zealous PETA-types who want to bastardize an entire corporation over a department that might make up 1% of its overall operation. PETA is probably responsible for killing more animals each year than all of the Wal-Mart's combined. While PETA is spending their multi-million dollar budget jet-setting around with the Hollywood left, they are simultaneously killing the over-whelming majority of the animals they purportedly saved from bad conditions. If I was an animal, I'd much rather be left alone to have a chance at living in poor conditions than be faced with near-certain death at the hands of PETA. Just Google something like 'PETA kills animals' and you will find tons of information about them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bmp Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish stores....WalMart?? Until you mentioned losing your faith in local stores, I thought you were talking about WalMart. I hear their fish live in pitifully kept tanks. But I also read that all WalMart stores will stop selling pet fish sometime soon, if not already. Can anyone else verify this? I quit shopping at WalMart a few years ago for various reasons so I haven't been in one to know for myself. I am aware there have been online petitions protesting WalMart's horrible conditions for their fish but don't know if this is truly a current problem or not. Beverly --- Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@... <mailto:thylacine_yawn%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked > out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions > that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the > fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... > is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, > but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a > shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. > The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. > (I'm loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop > because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the other > place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid behind > the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish > to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about > it after we left, or I probably would have given the kid an earfull.) > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd > understand... although if there is an organization or whatever I can > call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me > know. > > Helen. > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1238 - Release Date: 1/22/2008 8:12 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25497	From: bmp	Date: 1/23/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

Good evening Lenny, I respect you and your fine abilities with fishkeeping. I have read several sections of your blogs and find them informative and well written. I'm grateful for the time and thought you put into preparing them. But I didn't post my question about WalMart and whether they still sell pet fish in order to begin a complaint against PETA. PETA isn't perfect but most of their members have good intentions. I don't really want to put them down, especially not in this context. I just wanted to know if it was true that WalMart stopped selling fish. I hope they have. The fish deserve better. Friend-ily yours, Beverly --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I don't think Wal-Mart fish departments are > systemically bad. > > > The online petitions are generally driven by over > zealous PETA-types who > want to bastardize an entire corporation over a > department that might make > up 1% of its overall operation. PETA is probably > responsible for killing > more animals each year than all of the Wal-Mart's > combined. While PETA is > spending their multi-million dollar budget > jet-setting around with the > Hollywood left, they are simultaneously killing the > over-whelming majority > of the animals they purportedly saved from bad > conditions. If I was an > animal, I'd much rather be left alone to have a > chance at living in poor > conditions than be faced with near-certain death at > the hands of PETA. Just > Google something like 'PETA kills animals' and you > will find tons of > information about them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25498	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: HSUS

Thank you for that clarification and for passing along the artica. I appreciate the information; I had no idea the HSUS were what they are... I'm all for each person having his own opinion and I personally think that maybe we need some tougher laws to protect animals in certain industries, but animal rights activsts have a tendancy to totally cross over the lines (hope I'm not offending anyone), while groups like the Humane Society and ASPCA struggle to stay 'in business', spaying, neutering and protecting those who can't speak for themselves (sorry, every once in a while I watch Animal Cops and it makes me sad.... ) anyway, thanks again for the heads up. I will make a couple of calls and see if maybe this fish store guy doesn't just need a 'wake up call' from somebody to clean up his act -- and his store. ~Helen --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25499	From: Ken Sharpe	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

Lenny, I agree with you on the PETA issue completely. The groups like PETA and Greenpeace ramming fishing vessels a few years back trying to kill the fishermen and the folks who spike trees to injure the people who are cutting them down. They are all in the same boat on this. This is enviromentalists trying to rule and running amock in society. I believe in protecting certain enviromental issues, but lets do it in a peaceful manner. and not be "enviro-nazis"! Oh and by the way, I do belong to PETA, not the PETA, but the PETA that stands for People Eating Tasty Animals! Also the Wal-marts in Greensboro that do still sell fish are usually well kept clean tanks, as much as I dislike shopping at the "town" of Wal-mart, I do have to give them credit on this matter. Pastor Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I don't think Wal-Mart fish departments are systemically bad. > > I am sure there are isolated cases where the manager of the store is lax in > his/her supervision and management so that one or more departments suffer in > quality and customer service. This lack of proper management and/or > lackadaisical management is endemic and systemic in any and all > businesses... both large and small. > > Too many managers are like parents nowadays and want to be liked by all of > their employees (like a parent wants to be friends with their kids) > therefore, proper leadership and discipline is severely lacking. When an > employee sees that the manager doesn't care, the trickle down effect is > horrendous to the rest of the business' operations. > > Wal-Mart, simply because they are Wal-Mart, are criticized, scrutinized and > reported on far more heavily than a comparable mom & pop operation. The > fact is that any business in any industry can have both good and bad > operations from one outlet to the next, and even from one shift to the next, > depending on who is in charge at the time, whether it is a locally owned mom > & pop business or a chain outlet of a major retail corporation like > Wal-Mart. > > The online petitions are generally driven by over zealous PETA- types who > want to bastardize an entire corporation over a department that might make > up 1% of its overall operation. PETA is probably responsible for killing > more animals each year than all of the Wal-Mart's combined. While PETA is > spending their multi-million dollar budget jet-setting around with the > Hollywood left, they are simultaneously killing the over-whelming majority > of the animals they purportedly saved from bad conditions. If I was an > animal, I'd much rather be left alone to have a chance at living in poor > conditions than be faced with near-certain death at the hands of PETA. Just > Google something like 'PETA kills animals' and you will find tons of > information about them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bmp > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish stores....WalMart?? > > Until you mentioned losing your faith in local stores, I thought you were > talking about WalMart. I hear their fish live in pitifully kept tanks. But I > also read that all WalMart stores will stop selling pet fish sometime soon, > if not already. Can anyone else verify this? I quit shopping at WalMart a > few years ago for various reasons so I haven't been in one to know for > myself. I am aware there have been online petitions protesting WalMart's > horrible conditions for their fish but don't know if this is truly a current > problem or not. > > Beverly > > --- Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@... > <mailto:thylacine_yawn%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked > > out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions > > that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the > > fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... > > is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, > > but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a > > shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. > > The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. > > (I'm loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop > > because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the other > > place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid behind > > the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish > > to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about > > it after we left, or I probably would have given the kid an earfull.) > > > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd > > understand... although if there is an organization or whatever I can > > call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me > > know. > > > > Helen. > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1238 - Release Date: 1/22/2008 > 8:12 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25500	From: Hamrad	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

Our local Walmart completely removed the fish section about three month ago but they have resorted (original setup) and restocked it this month. I am thinking they did not want to bother with it during the winter months and Christmas season. Tom S. ----- Original Message ----- From: bmp To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 12:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] fish stores....WalMart?? Good evening Lenny, I respect you and your fine abilities with fishkeeping. I have read several sections of your blogs and find them informative and well written. I'm grateful for the time and thought you put into preparing them. But I didn't post my question about WalMart and whether they still sell pet fish in order to begin a complaint against PETA. PETA isn't perfect but most of their members have good intentions. I don't really want to put them down, especially not in this context. I just wanted to know if it was true that WalMart stopped selling fish. I hope they have. The fish deserve better. Friend-ily yours, Beverly --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I don't think Wal-Mart fish departments are > systemically bad. > > > The online petitions are generally driven by over > zealous PETA-types who > want to bastardize an entire corporation over a > department that might make > up 1% of its overall operation. PETA is probably > responsible for killing > more animals each year than all of the Wal-Mart's > combined. While PETA is > spending their multi-million dollar budget > jet-setting around with the > Hollywood left, they are simultaneously killing the > over-whelming majority > of the animals they purportedly saved from bad > conditions. If I was an > animal, I'd much rather be left alone to have a > chance at living in poor > conditions than be faced with near-certain death at > the hands of PETA. Just > Google something like 'PETA kills animals' and you > will find tons of > information about them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com Peace, please! __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25501	From: hamrad45	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

I think they are different at every store. We have two Walmart stores that use to have fish up until three months ago when they took everything out including the display. This month they have put everything back. I guess they did not want to bother with the fish during the Christmas season. Secondly, both Walmart's fish displays were keep very clean. We have two PetSmart stores which I would rate as a 7 compared to a 10 (on a relative scale) for Walmart and two private stores that I would rate as a 1 or 2. All of these stores are totally depended on the managers as far as how they are kept. Just another piece of imperical data. - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > Until you mentioned losing your faith in local stores, > I thought you were talking about WalMart. I hear their > fish live in pitifully kept tanks. But I also read > that all WalMart stores will stop selling pet fish > sometime soon, if not already. Can anyone else verify > this? I quit shopping at WalMart a few years ago for > various reasons so I haven't been in one to know for > myself. I am aware there have been online petitions > protesting WalMart's horrible conditions for their > fish but don't know if this is truly a current problem > or not. > > Beverly > > --- Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > > This isn't really related to anything, but... has > > anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt > > so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a > > shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the > > fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... > > is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a > > crusader or anything, but I went into this place > > yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower > > when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. > > The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the > > trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local > > outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was > > tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the > > other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw > > was when the kid behind the counter told my husband > > how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim > > upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby > > told me about it after we left, or I probably would > > have given the kid an earfull.) > > > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed > > somebody who'd understand... although if there is an > > organization or whatever I can call to report a > > hideously poorly maintained store, please let me > > know. > > > > Helen. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, thanks. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > Peace, please! > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25502	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

Beverly, There are several thousand members in this group and possibly thousands more that read the postings online who are not members, so when you brought up the online petitions against Wal-Mart and commented about hoping that Wal-Mart would shut down their fish departments, I wanted to put those in context. For many people, a Wal-Mart fish department is the only fish store in town so it would be much better for people to continue to complain to Wal-Mart HQ and to the store managers to keep the department up and running properly, rather than petitioning to shut them all down. The more fish stores/departments there are, the better for the hobbyist as far as competitive pricing and availability of product. My complaint about PETA was against the BIG PETA CORPORATION. I never said anything bad against the low-level members/donors of PETA, although they are generally uninformed want-to-be do-gooder type volunteers who end up doing the grunt work and giving their hard earned money to a BIG CORPORATION like PETA while PETA's leadership whizzes away the money, jet-setting with the rich and famous hollywood leftists and are generally protected and not reported on by the left-leaning national media outlets that love to tear apart companies like Wal-Mart. http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/21 has a good summary on PETA and many other so-called "rights" organizations and the following snippet is from their page on PETA. "PETA collected almost $29 million in donations in 2004 alone, but few donors understand exactly where their money is going. During the past ten years, PETA has spent four times as much on criminals and their legal defense than it has on shelters, spay-neuter programs, and other efforts that actually help animals.... PETA is not an animal welfare organization. PETA spends LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of its multi-million dollar budget actually helping animals. The group euthanized (killed) more than 1,900 animals in 2003 alone -- that's over 85 percent of the animals it received. (Lenny comments: Wal-Mart doesn’t kill 85% of the fish they receive) In fact, from July 1998 through the end of 2003, PETA killed over 10,000 dogs, cats, and other "companion animals" at its Norfolk, Virginia headquarters. That's more than five animals every day. On its 2002 federal income-tax return, PETA claimed a $9,370 expense for a giant walk-in freezer, the kind most people use as a meat locker or for ice-cream storage. But animal-rights activists don't eat meat or dairy foods. So far, the group hasn't confirmed the obvious -- that it's using the appliance to store the bodies of its victims." These people who continually tear apart companies like Wal-Mart should spend more time looking in the mirror and/or looking at the so-called rights organizations they are doing the dirty work for... groups that often have an agenda far more insidious than saving some pet fish. When anyone utilizes their freedom of speech rights and brings up something negative about a good company like Wal-Mart, then reciprocally, I can use my freedom of speech rights to contradict any misinformation and/or expand on the topic. NO, I do not work for Wal-Mart and I don't even own a single share of their stock and I might only shop at a Wal-Mart a few times a year, but I am a businessman and I feel sorry for Wal-Mart and their employees and stockholders to be constantly attacked and demonized by the left, when groups like PETA are just as guilty of killing animals and pound-for-pound, probably kill far more than the fish departments at Wal-Mart... but they are hailed as animal-rights groups by the left as if they are doing good for the thousands of animals that they kill each year. These folks that volunteer or propagandize to try and shut down Wal-Mart’s fish departments should just volunteer at the local Wal-Mart fish department to start teaching the employees and department manager how to better care for their fish. That would do immediate good for the fish and the hobby, whereas spending years and years trying to shut down Wal-Mart will not. And as far as your comment about “good intentions”... there’s an old saying about that too... but I won’t expand on that one! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bmp Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] fish stores....WalMart?? Good evening Lenny, I respect you and your fine abilities with fishkeeping. I have read several sections of your blogs and find them informative and well written. I'm grateful for the time and thought you put into preparing them. But I didn't post my question about WalMart and whether they still sell pet fish in order to begin a complaint against PETA. PETA isn't perfect but most of their members have good intentions. I don't really want to put them down, especially not in this context. I just wanted to know if it was true that WalMart stopped selling fish. I hope they have. The fish deserve better. Friend-ily yours, Beverly --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > I don't think Wal-Mart fish departments are systemically bad. > > > The online petitions are generally driven by over > zealous PETA-types who > want to bastardize an entire corporation over a > department that might make > up 1% of its overall operation. PETA is probably > responsible for killing > more animals each year than all of the Wal-Mart's > combined. While PETA is > spending their multi-million dollar budget > jet-setting around with the > Hollywood left, they are simultaneously killing the > over-whelming majority > of the animals they purportedly saved from bad > conditions. If I was an > animal, I'd much rather be left alone to have a > chance at living in poor > conditions than be faced with near-certain death at > the hands of PETA. Just > Google something like 'PETA kills animals' and you > will find tons of > information about them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1240 - Release Date: 1/23/2008 5:47 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25503	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

Very well put. I also believe that it is a lack of knowledge on the part of the employees on how to care for fish. I have donated my time quite frequently, to friends,family,senior centers, petshops, and strangers on general fish care. If all of us aquatic lovers could reach out and share our knowledge of the trade to a novice, then we could make alot of fish happy. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:32:30 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] fish stores....WalMart?? Beverly, There are several thousand members in this group and possibly thousands more that read the postings online who are not members, so when you brought up the online petitions against Wal-Mart and commented about hoping that Wal-Mart would shut down their fish departments, I wanted to put those in context. For many people, a Wal-Mart fish department is the only fish store in town so it would be much better for people to continue to complain to Wal-Mart HQ and to the store managers to keep the department up and running properly, rather than petitioning to shut them all down. The more fish stores/departments there are, the better for the hobbyist as far as competitive pricing and availability of product. My complaint about PETA was against the BIG PETA CORPORATION. I never said anything bad against the low-level members/donors of PETA, although they are generally uninformed want-to-be do-gooder type volunteers who end up doing the grunt work and giving their hard earned money to a BIG CORPORATION like PETA while PETA's leadership whizzes away the money, jet-setting with the rich and famous hollywood leftists and are generally protected and not reported on by the left-leaning national media outlets that love to tear apart companies like Wal-Mart. http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/21 has a good summary on PETA and many other so-called "rights" organizations and the following snippet is from their page on PETA. "PETA collected almost $29 million in donations in 2004 alone, but few donors understand exactly where their money is going. During the past ten years, PETA has spent four times as much on criminals and their legal defense than it has on shelters, spay-neuter programs, and other efforts that actually help animals.... PETA is not an animal welfare organization. PETA spends LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of its multi-million dollar budget actually helping animals. The group euthanized (killed) more than 1,900 animals in 2003 alone -- that's over 85 percent of the animals it received. (Lenny comments: Wal-Mart doesn�t kill 85% of the fish they receive) In fact, from July 1998 through the end of 2003, PETA killed over 10,000 dogs, cats, and other "companion animals" at its Norfolk, Virginia headquarters. That's more than five animals every day. On its 2002 federal income-tax return, PETA claimed a $9,370 expense for a giant walk-in freezer, the kind most people use as a meat locker or for ice-cream storage. But animal-rights activists don't eat meat or dairy foods. So far, the group hasn't confirmed the obvious -- that it's using the appliance to store the bodies of its victims." These people who continually tear apart companies like Wal-Mart should spend more time looking in the mirror and/or looking at the so-called rights organizations they are doing the dirty work for... groups that often have an agenda far more insidious than saving some pet fish. When anyone utilizes their freedom of speech rights and brings up something negative about a good company like Wal-Mart, then reciprocally, I can use my freedom of speech rights to contradict any misinformation and/or expand on the topic. NO, I do not work for Wal-Mart and I don't even own a single share of their stock and I might only shop at a Wal-Mart a few times a year, but I am a businessman and I feel sorry for Wal-Mart and their employees and stockholders to be constantly attacked and demonized by the left, when groups like PETA are just as guilty of killing animals and pound-for-pound, probably kill far more than the fish departments at Wal-Mart... but they are hailed as animal-rights groups by the left as if they are doing good for the thousands of animals that they kill each year. These folks that volunteer or propagandize to try and shut down Wal-Mart�s fish departments should just volunteer at the local Wal-Mart fish department to start teaching the employees and department manager how to better care for their fish. That would do immediate good for the fish and the hobby, whereas spending years and years trying to shut down Wal-Mart will not. And as far as your comment about �good intentions�... there�s an old saying about that too... but I won�t expand on that one! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bmp Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] fish stores....WalMart?? Good evening Lenny, I respect you and your fine abilities with fishkeeping. I have read several sections of your blogs and find them informative and well written. I'm grateful for the time and thought you put into preparing them. But I didn't post my question about WalMart and whether they still sell pet fish in order to begin a complaint against PETA. PETA isn't perfect but most of their members have good intentions. I don't really want to put them down, especially not in this context. I just wanted to know if it was true that WalMart stopped selling fish. I hope they have. The fish deserve better. Friend-ily yours, Beverly --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > I don't think Wal-Mart fish departments are systemically bad. > > > The online petitions are generally driven by over > zealous PETA-types who > want to bastardize an entire corporation over a > department that might make > up 1% of its overall operation. PETA is probably > responsible for killing > more animals each year than all of the Wal-Mart's > combined. While PETA is > spending their multi-million dollar budget > jet-setting around with the > Hollywood left, they are simultaneously killing the > over-whelming majority > of the animals they purportedly saved from bad > conditions. If I was an > animal, I'd much rather be left alone to have a > chance at living in poor > conditions than be faced with near-certain death at > the hands of PETA. Just > Google something like 'PETA kills animals' and you > will find tons of > information about them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1240 - Release Date: 1/23/2008 5:47 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25504	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

I too thought Wal-Mart had stopped selling fish several years ago. Several months they opened a new one in Dawson county just north of me they are touting as the largest in the country. I don't know how true that is, but last time I was in there I was shocked to find a stocked fish section. Maybe 12-15 tanks that looked pretty well kept... not great, but not the worst I've ever seen either. That is one big Wal-Mart by the way. Lynn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Live in the North Georgia area? Then check out the North Georgia Aquarium Club at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NorthGAAquariumClub/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25505	From: Angela	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores....WalMart??

Our walmart has fish as well... Unfortunately they don't often look well kept. -------Original Message------- From: Lynn Francis Date: 01/24/08 08:39:17 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores....WalMart?? I too thought Wal-Mart had stopped selling fish several years ago. Several months they opened a new one in Dawson county just north of me they are touting as the largest in the country. I don't know how true that is, but last time I was in there I was shocked to find a stocked fish section. Maybe 12-15 tanks that looked pretty well kept... not great, but not the worst I've ever seen either. That is one big Wal-Mart by the way. Lynn ---------------------------------------------------------- ----- Live in the North Georgia area? Then check out the North Georgia Aquarium Club at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NorthGAAquariumClub/ ---------------------------------------------------------- ----- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25506	From: bruce cohen	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: wallmart vs petco

if the choise was between wallmart or petco I would choose walmart because petco has a bad rep with marine fish and inverts they do not keep the water at the proper peramiters to keep the animals alive and as far as my local fish store whom has earned the name total rip off. he sells saltwater and calls it Catalina water he goes as far as to tell the customers that it is catlina water but what He does not know that he can be checked online or call them to find out that He is not a catlina water buyer. HE has made a mess out of my tank at the present time.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25507	From: Brian Pierce	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

I have to agree with marsha. I used to work at a Petsmart in CT (petco's biggest competition). most of the staff in the aquatic section thought they were knowledgeable in this area, but were often wrong. See, there are 2 major problems with any type of retail store, whether or not they sell pets/aquatics : one is poor training. companies like petco and petsmart do not have knowledgeable staff because management all the way up to the corporate level is built of people who are just out to make money, and therefore, put cost before genuine expert training. the second problem is wages. Most people will not put their all into a job if they don't make enough money to even feed themselves. the cost of living in CT for basic needs (food, shelter, gas and vehicle maintenance, clothing) can run from $19,000 to $21,000 a year (with current economic conditions) and the average retail employee working 40+ hours a week for minimum wage or even slightly higher have annual pre-tax gross of aprox. $15,000- $18,000. I'm sure the same can be said for other states as well, considering that min. wage is different from state to state, as is cost of living. my point is that if you really want to see better pet care, the responsibility does not lie solely with store managers (although it does play a part). People need to care more about their jobs. and who really cares about a job that doesn't even meet their basic needs?? maybe people who genuinely care about the health and safety of animals and fish should volunteer time, or better yet, go into fishcare and petcare themselves. realistically, most people don't have the time to volunteer, but if you do, it would help. I believe the only solution is to have people who really care more about animal well-being then money get into the business. anyway, that's my rant. --- marsha wilburn <alien8mipussy@...> wrote: > Very well put. I also believe that it is a lack of > knowledge on the part of the employees on how to > care for fish. I have donated my time quite > frequently, to friends,family,senior centers, > petshops, and strangers on general fish care. If > all of us aquatic lovers could reach out and share > our knowledge of the trade to a novice, then we > could make alot of fish happy. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:32:30 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] fish stores....WalMart?? > > Beverly, > > There are several thousand members in this group and > possibly thousands more > that read the postings online who are not members, > so when you brought up > the online petitions against Wal-Mart and commented > about hoping that > Wal-Mart would shut down their fish departments, I > wanted to put those in > context. > > For many people, a Wal-Mart fish department is the > only fish store in town > so it would be much better for people to continue to > complain to Wal-Mart HQ > and to the store managers to keep the department up > and running properly, > rather than petitioning to shut them all down. The > more fish > stores/departments there are, the better for the > hobbyist as far as > competitive pricing and availability of product. > > My complaint about PETA was against the BIG PETA > CORPORATION. I never said > anything bad against the low-level members/donors of > PETA, although they are > generally uninformed want-to-be do-gooder type > volunteers who end up doing > the grunt work and giving their hard earned money to > a BIG CORPORATION like > PETA while PETA's leadership whizzes away the money, > jet-setting with the > rich and famous hollywood leftists and are generally > protected and not > reported on by the left-leaning national media > outlets that love to tear > apart companies like Wal-Mart. > > http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/21 > has a good > summary on PETA and many other so-called "rights" > organizations and the > following snippet is from their page on PETA. > > "PETA collected almost $29 million in donations in > 2004 alone, but few > donors understand exactly where their money is > going. During the past ten > years, PETA has spent four times as much on > criminals and their legal > defense than it has on shelters, spay-neuter > programs, and other efforts > that actually help animals.... > > PETA is not an animal welfare organization. > > PETA spends LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of its > multi-million dollar budget > actually helping animals. The group euthanized > (killed) more than 1,900 > animals in 2003 alone -- that's over 85 percent of > the animals it received. > (Lenny comments: Wal-Mart doesn’t kill 85% of the > fish they receive) In > fact, from July 1998 through the end of 2003, PETA > killed over 10,000 dogs, > cats, and other "companion animals" at its Norfolk, > Virginia headquarters. > That's more than five animals every day. On its 2002 > federal income-tax > return, PETA claimed a $9,370 expense for a giant > walk-in freezer, the kind > most people use as a meat locker or for ice-cream > storage. But animal-rights > activists don't eat meat or dairy foods. So far, the > group hasn't confirmed > the obvious -- that it's using the appliance to > store the bodies of its > victims." > > These people who continually tear apart companies > like Wal-Mart should spend > more time looking in the mirror and/or looking at > the so-called rights > organizations they are doing the dirty work for... > groups that often have an > agenda far more insidious than saving some pet fish. > > When anyone utilizes their freedom of speech rights > and brings up something > negative about a good company like Wal-Mart, then > reciprocally, I can use my > freedom of speech rights to contradict any > misinformation and/or expand on > the topic. > > NO, I do not work for Wal-Mart and I don't even own > a single share of their > stock and I might only shop at a Wal-Mart a few > times a year, but I am a > businessman and I feel sorry for Wal-Mart and their > employees and > stockholders to be constantly attacked and demonized > by the left, when > groups like PETA are just as guilty of killing > animals and pound-for-pound, > probably kill far more than the fish departments at > Wal-Mart... but they are > hailed as animal-rights groups by the left as if > they are doing good for the > thousands of animals that they kill each year. > > These folks that volunteer or propagandize to try > and shut down Wal-Mart’s > fish departments should just volunteer at the local > Wal-Mart fish department > to start teaching the employees and department > manager how to better care > for their fish. That would do immediate good for > the fish and the hobby, > whereas spending years and years trying to shut down > Wal-Mart will not. > > And as far as your comment about “good > intentions”... there’s an old saying > about that too... but I won’t expand on that one! > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bmp > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] fish stores....WalMart?? > > Good evening Lenny, > > I respect you and your fine abilities with > fishkeeping. I have read several > sections of your blogs and find them informative and > well written. I'm > grateful for the time and thought you put into > preparing them. > > But I didn't post my question about WalMart and > whether they still sell pet > fish in order to begin a complaint against PETA. > PETA isn't perfect but most > of their members have good intentions. I don't > really want to put them down, > especially not in this context. > I just wanted to know if it was true that WalMart > stopped selling fish. > > I hope they have. The fish deserve better. > > Friend-ily yours, > Beverly > > --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > I don't think Wal-Mart fish departments are > systemically bad. > > > > > > The online petitions are generally driven by over > > zealous PETA-types who > > want to bastardize an entire corporation over a > > department that might make > > up 1% of its overall operation. PETA is probably > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25508	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

Steve and Mike, Thank you for filling in on some misconceptions I had between the HSUS and the local Humane Societies. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Thak you Steve! > > -Mike > > > The link given below is incomplete. The full link is: > > http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/136 > > \\Steve// > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 8:18 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... > > > > > > > The link given below is incomplete. The full link is: > > http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/136 > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... > > We need to clarify something here. > > The Humane Society of the United States does not have any affiliation whatsoever with any other humane society in the United States. Your local Humane Sopciety has no Affiliation with the HSUS (See above), They are seperate entities. > > If you donate to your local Humane Society your are doing good things in your local community, helping pets in your area. > > If you donate money to the HSUS you are giving money to a group that does not have one single shelter in the United States. Your money goes to a group that tries to pass insidious laws that are already taking your right to animal ownership away from you.  > > > "Buried deep within HSUS’s website is a disclaimer noting that the group “is not affiliated with, nor is it a parent organization for, local humane societies, animal shelters, or animal care and control agencies. These are independent organizations … HSUS does not operate or have direct control over any animal shelter.” > > This link has a lot of information about the HSUS. > > http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm > > -Mike > > > > >  or your state's Humane Society > of America. While their concern is mainly with large animals (cats, > dogs, etc.), they're always interested in coming down hard, on major > abuses of this nature of most any kind when pet shops and similar > establishments are involved. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 7:06 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... > > > > > > > Sure, you could contact your closest A.S.P.C.A. (American Society for > the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals), or your state's Humane Society > of America. While their concern is mainly with large animals (cats, > dogs, etc.), they're always interested in coming down hard, on major > abuses of this nature of most any kind when pet shops and similar > establishments are involved. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn > <thylacine_yawn@> wrote: > > > > This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever > walked out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the > conditions that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt > sorrier for the fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... > is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, > but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take > a shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. The > occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. (I'm > loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop > because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the > other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid > behind the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for > goldfish to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby > told me about it after we left, or I probably would have given the > kid an earfull.) > > > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd > understand... although if there is an organization or whatever I can > call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me > know. > > > > Helen. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25509	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

I wanted to add something, I havent read all the posts, just a couple. I do work at a pet store (Pet Supplies Plus, in Toledo Ohio). And money does lie within. When I was first hired into the company, my manager at the time looked at my app and resume and told me, he cant afford to pay me what he thought I was worth. I was hired in not as a fish person, but as an animal person, mainly for reptiles and small animals, but also for the birds. I took a big paycut as I was unhappy working at my other job, I wanted out to do something I wold enjoy more. So 6 years ago I was making 6 bucks an hour. Whoopie do for a person who at the time, had 5 years of reptile care, cant count how many years of small animal care, and I was raised on fish care as I cant remember a time we didnt have fish (used to raise african cichilids, we had wall to wall fishtanks in our garage for breeding). I soon dug waist deep into bird care, I personally do not like the idea of selling an animal I didnt know anything about. So our bird lady, yes a bird lady, she has had parrots for over 20 years, breeding and caring. I would dig through her brain for info, joined bird groups, read as much as possible. I am still this way even today as I personally now own 2 parrots. I even have tought the bird lady a few things as she didnt know all species, just most of the major ones(I taught her alot about eclectus and caique thats what I have). I also work for an exotics vets office, I am constantly running ideas about care and info through both of our vets. And then it comes to fish. Fish are like every other animal to me in the store, if I dont know things about a species, I will look it up. Mainly the brackish water fish. Again I personally do not like to sell an animal without knowing the specs on it. I forwarn people about the size the fish will get, inform them that they are schoolers and get more than 1 or 2 of them (I push for a min of 5, which usually works). And for instance last week told a kid who had 2 oscars(about 9" long), a 4" convict, 2 8" pacu all in a 55 ggallon tank he seriously needed to get a larger tank, or get rid of all but 1 oscar who really would prefer to be in a 75 over a 55. I have talked him into giving my store the pacu so that we might find them a larger home (usually when we get the big fish in, we require the customer to have a certain size tank before selling the fish to them). I also told him we would take the oscars or the convict also, along with some random cichlids he didnt know what it was that beat the crap out of all his other fish so it was now condemed to a 20 gallon (9" long fish). Yet alone he does a water change once a month on this tank that is way over populated. Told him to do it at least once a week with all of those fish, even if he decides to keep one oscar due to their size and messiness...ok that isnt spelled right). Now had that been one of the other 3 customer service people would he have been told any of that? No. Why? They work there because it is a job. The one girl presses me for animal info, and if we do get a new strange animal that there is not a correct caresheet for(yes I review and make my vets review it also), I will hand write a quick cheat sheet as I call it, so they will know size, temperment, feeding, tank space needed ect for the anima reguardless if its a bird, reptile or fish. What is funny is that only the one customer service person besides me gives a hoot, and we have a few cashiers who would check the sheets for info, it is sad when the cashier makes more of an effort than the actual animal person. My point? damn I rambled.... Anyways 6 years later I barely make over $8, I am one of the higher payed people, I make more than the bookeeper for my store. I know for a fact that the assistant store manager barely makes more than me as they tried to get me to do that, said wasnt worth making a couple more per hour to take care of a store, I make more than that at my other job as a part time manager for a produce dept. They cant afford to pay people who know anything about these animals as most people want to e paid for what they are worth. I know I am worth more than $8, but I use that jobs as gas money to get me back and forth to school (biology major, gonna grad at the end of the fall semester...woohoo go me!). And even so, these jobs hire in a min wage, in ohio it is $7...woohoo I will make a 1.25 more than a new hire! And as stated, to give your time away for free....well most people do not have free time. And also insurance comes into play. To voluntee at the zoo, those people although not workers are still covered by their health insurance for the brief time they were there if something happened. At a pet store, you are too much of a liability, it is the same with like someone who is under 15, its to much effort to have them. So it is back to the drawing board. I have always been a firm believer in never buy your fish where youcan buy clothing, but to get rid of fish in walmart would doom some people to never get fish as walmart is usually the only place out in the middle of nowhere that will offer them. All I can say is if you buy walmart fish, do yourself a favor and keep a small qt tank to be sure you do not introduce anything into your tank. Which is a good idea anyways reguardless of where you buy from. Thankfully Toledo has alot of options for fish places. *steps down from soap box*.....ooo tide I love tide! ~Melissa --- Brian Pierce <brian_patrick_pierce06@...> wrote: > I have to agree with marsha. I used to work at a > Petsmart in CT (petco's biggest competition). most > of > the staff in the aquatic section thought they were > knowledgeable in this area, but were often wrong. > See, there are 2 major problems with any type of > retail store, whether or not they sell pets/aquatics > : > one is poor training. companies like petco and > petsmart do not have knowledgeable staff because > management all the way up to the corporate level is > built of people who are just out to make money, and > therefore, put cost before genuine expert training. > > > the second problem is wages. Most people will not > put > their all into a job if they don't make enough money > to even feed themselves. the cost of living in CT > for > basic needs (food, shelter, gas and vehicle > maintenance, clothing) can run from $19,000 to > $21,000 a year (with current economic conditions) > and > the average retail employee working 40+ hours a week > for minimum wage or even slightly higher have annual > pre-tax gross of aprox. $15,000- $18,000. I'm sure > the same can be said for other states as well, > considering that min. wage is different from state > to > state, as is cost of living. > > my point is that if you really want to see better > pet > care, the responsibility does not lie solely with > store managers (although it does play a part). > People > need to care more about their jobs. and who really > cares about a job that doesn't even meet their basic > needs?? > > maybe people who genuinely care about the health and > safety of animals and fish should volunteer time, or > better yet, go into fishcare and petcare themselves. > realistically, most people don't have the time to > volunteer, but if you do, it would help. > > I believe the only solution is to have people who > really care more about animal well-being then money > get into the business. > > anyway, that's my rant. > > --- marsha wilburn <alien8mipussy@...> wrote: > > > Very well put. I also believe that it is a lack > of > > knowledge on the part of the employees on how to > > care for fish. I have donated my time quite > > frequently, to friends,family,senior centers, > > petshops, and strangers on general fish care. If > > all of us aquatic lovers could reach out and share > > our knowledge of the trade to a novice, then we > > could make alot of fish happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:32:30 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] fish > stores....WalMart?? > > > > Beverly, > > > > There are several thousand members in this group > and > > possibly thousands more > > that read the postings online who are not members, > > so when you brought up > > the online petitions against Wal-Mart and > commented > > about hoping that > > Wal-Mart would shut down their fish departments, I > > wanted to put those in > > context. > > > > For many people, a Wal-Mart fish department is the > > only fish store in town > > so it would be much better for people to continue > to > > complain to Wal-Mart HQ > > and to the store managers to keep the department > up > > and running properly, > > rather than petitioning to shut them all down. > The > > more fish > > stores/departments there are, the better for the > > hobbyist as far as > > competitive pricing and availability of product. > > > > My complaint about PETA was against the BIG PETA > > CORPORATION. I never said > > anything bad against the low-level members/donors > of > > PETA, although they are > > generally uninformed want-to-be do-gooder type > > volunteers who end up doing > > the grunt work and giving their hard earned money > to > > a BIG CORPORATION like > > PETA while PETA's leadership whizzes away the > money, > > jet-setting with the > > rich and famous hollywood leftists and are > generally > > protected and not > > reported on by the left-leaning national media > > outlets that love to tear > > apart companies like Wal-Mart. > > > > > http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/21 > > has a good > > summary on PETA and many other so-called "rights" > > organizations and the > > following snippet is from their page on PETA. > > > > "PETA collected almost $29 million in donations in > > 2004 alone, but few > > donors understand exactly where their money is > > going. During the past ten > > years, PETA has spent four times as much on > > criminals and their legal > > defense than it has on shelters, spay-neuter > > programs, and other efforts > > that actually help animals.... > > > > PETA is not an animal welfare organization. > > > > PETA spends LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of its > > multi-million dollar budget > > actually helping animals. The group euthanized > > (killed) more than 1,900 > > animals in 2003 alone -- that's over 85 percent of > > the animals it received. > > (Lenny comments: Wal-Mart doesn’t kill 85% of the > > fish they receive) In > > fact, from July 1998 through the end of 2003, PETA > > killed over 10,000 dogs, > > cats, and other "companion animals" at its > Norfolk, > > Virginia headquarters. > > That's more than five animals every day. On its > 2002 > > federal income-tax > > return, PETA claimed a $9,370 expense for a giant > > walk-in freezer, the kind > > most people use as a meat locker or for ice-cream > > storage. But animal-rights > > activists don't eat meat or dairy foods. So far, > the > > group hasn't confirmed > > the obvious -- that it's using the appliance to > > store the bodies of its > > victims." > > > > These people who continually tear apart companies > > like Wal-Mart should spend > > more time looking in the mirror and/or looking at > > the so-called rights > > organizations they are doing the dirty work for... > > groups that often have an > > agenda far more insidious than saving some pet > fish. > > > > When anyone utilizes their freedom of speech > rights > > and brings up something > > negative about a good company like Wal-Mart, then > > reciprocally, I can use my > > freedom of speech rights to contradict any > > misinformation and/or expand on > > the topic. > > > > NO, I do not work for Wal-Mart and I don't even > own > > a single share of their > > stock and I might only shop at a Wal-Mart a few > > times a year, but I am a > > businessman and I feel sorry for Wal-Mart and > their > > employees and > > stockholders to be constantly attacked and > demonized > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25510	From: jabugladybug	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: How to get nitrate level down

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jabugladybug" <jabugladybug@...> wrote: > > Hi guys, my husband and I are new to saltwater tanks. We have a 8 week > old, 14 gal, Biocube. Up until now, all readings have been great. In > the last few days, Nitrate level is high (20). My question is, is there > any other method, besides water change, that we should be using to get > the level down? My husband has done some online research, but > everything seems to point to water changes...which is fine, but we > wonder if we need to do something more. Many thanks, Donna >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25511	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

(a response to a response to a response was trimmed out of this post) I am not going to comment about PETA (unless they sell A1 Sauce) WALMART - the one in Fuquay Varina, NC was out of hand to the point that I personally called the cops due to the level of fish carcasses that were in their tanks. In the evening it is the responsibility of the Garden Center cashier to service the fish buying customers - that means terrible service because those cashier's do NOT have the time to tend to customer needs - nor do most of them have the needed knowledge to properly answer basic aquaria questions. I do not know where the rumor that WalMart is going out of the fish sales came from - but in Holly Springs is a brand new super walmart that also has tanks. My BIGGEST complaint about them is their interest in selling Pacu's (aka Tank Busters) They are neat looking tiny fish - that turn into HUGE monsters. IMO - they do NOT need to be sold to the community fish tank owners. Randy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25512	From: aaron102272	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores

Hello Melissa, Thank you for your post. I truly appreciate you sharing your experience. I am glad to see that there are others that are passionate, not just about this hobby, but about their beliefs as well. Your story demonstrates how much you care about doing the right thing. It also illustrates very accurately from an insiders perspective just how cautious we must be as consumers ~ "Buyer Beware" I too took a huge pay cut to work part time at a Big Box pet store after deciding I could do a better job than the current employees. I had no specific pet type experience, but I did have more years of work experience than most of them combined. There was absolutely no training other than the basics of working the cash register. And sad to say, most of the employees were only there because it was an easy way to make a fast buck, (read illegally i.e. fake returns, wholesale shoplifting, helping themselves to the cash out of the register, etc.. ) They were not even there because it was just a job, there was no question why the animals suffered. The only person who seemed to know anything about the Aquatics department was there just long enough to build his own business of maintaining the fish he was selling to the stores customers. He helped himself to plenty of "free" supplies to get started and left, but not before replacing almost all of the small care cards under each tank with his business cards. I saw a lot of turn over in a few short months, nobody that was there when I began was there when I left, I out lasted everyone, all the way up to the regional management. But it never got any better and the longer I stayed there the more difficult it became to be there and I to had to leave. I am glad I did have that store experience at the very beginning. I can't imagine what might have happened if I had continued blindly taking random advice from total strangers just because they wore a name tag or owned a small lfs. The last time I bought any fish from 1 in particular was how I learned about ich the hard way. I had a beautifully stocked 55 gallon planted community tank that was getting a little bit of algae. I went to the place down the street where the owner sold me a standard pleco with cool looking white spots, neat. A few weeks later the tank had to be torn down completely and I had to start all over. That is when I started shopping around and a lfs 30 miles away educated me on the basics and sold me a 12 gallon aquarium for use as a Quarantine Tank. That location was not as convenient as the 4 in town or several others a town away but they had the best customer service I had ever seen and they were dedicated to educating the customers as priority number one with the understanding that the money would follow. If the customers all give up due to bad advice then eventually there won't be any more cash coming in, but if you can get them more involved then they will be life long customers and will gladly recommend the store to friends. Sadly that store flooded twice from bad pipes in the walls or ceiling and the owner had to close permanently. Now I know to research first and buy later, it was difficult to give up the impulse buy. Thanks again for your post, hopefully there are many other quality pet store people out there. It seems unfair that we are too easily lumped into a generalized category with all the others that do not care about the animals or customers. Perhaps if we see somebody at a big box chain or lfs who really cares about what they are doing we can take the time to thank them and let the management know that the person is the only reason we keep coming back and that they deserve a raise and promotion. Maybe we can help get the few that do care into a postion to make a differance and possibly reverse the stereo-typical trend of bad service, poor care and under training ~ that seems like it would be better than just shutting them all down. Maybe. I can hope can't I. -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Walker <playnwifsnot@...> wrote: > > I wanted to add something, I havent read all the > posts, just a couple. I do work at a pet store (Pet > Supplies Plus, in Toledo Ohio). And money does lie > within. When I was first hired into the company, my > manager at the time looked at my app and resume and > told me, he cant afford to pay me what he thought I > was worth. I was hired in not as a fish person, but as > an animal person, mainly for reptiles and small > animals, but also for the birds. I took a big paycut > as I was unhappy working at my other job, I wanted out > to do something I wold enjoy more. So 6 years ago I > was making 6 bucks an hour. Whoopie do for a person > who at the time, had 5 years of reptile care, cant > count how many years of small animal care, and I was > raised on fish care as I cant remember a time we didnt > have fish (used to raise african cichilids, we had > wall to wall fishtanks in our garage for breeding). > > I soon dug waist deep into bird care, I personally do > not like the idea of selling an animal I didnt know > anything about. So our bird lady, yes a bird lady, she > has had parrots for over 20 years, breeding and > caring. I would dig through her brain for info, joined > bird groups, read as much as possible. I am still this > way even today as I personally now own 2 parrots. I > even have tought the bird lady a few things as she > didnt know all species, just most of the major ones(I > taught her alot about eclectus and caique thats what I > have). I also work for an exotics vets office, I am > constantly running ideas about care and info through > both of our vets. > > And then it comes to fish. Fish are like every other > animal to me in the store, if I dont know things about > a species, I will look it up. Mainly the brackish > water fish. Again I personally do not like to sell an > animal without knowing the specs on it. I forwarn > people about the size the fish will get, inform them > that they are schoolers and get more than 1 or 2 of > them (I push for a min of 5, which usually works). And > for instance last week told a kid who had 2 > oscars(about 9" long), a 4" convict, 2 8" pacu all in > a 55 ggallon tank he seriously needed to get a larger > tank, or get rid of all but 1 oscar who really would > prefer to be in a 75 over a 55. I have talked him into > giving my store the pacu so that we might find them a > larger home (usually when we get the big fish in, we > require the customer to have a certain size tank > before selling the fish to them). I also told him we > would take the oscars or the convict also, along with > some random cichlids he didnt know what it was that > beat the crap out of all his other fish so it was now > condemed to a 20 gallon (9" long fish). Yet alone he > does a water change once a month on this tank that is > way over populated. Told him to do it at least once a > week with all of those fish, even if he decides to > keep one oscar due to their size and messiness...ok > that isnt spelled right). > > Now had that been one of the other 3 customer service > people would he have been told any of that? No. Why? > They work there because it is a job. The one girl > presses me for animal info, and if we do get a new > strange animal that there is not a correct caresheet > for(yes I review and make my vets review it also), I > will hand write a quick cheat sheet as I call it, so > they will know size, temperment, feeding, tank space > needed ect for the anima reguardless if its a bird, > reptile or fish. What is funny is that only the one > customer service person besides me gives a hoot, and > we have a few cashiers who would check the sheets for > info, it is sad when the cashier makes more of an > effort than the actual animal person. > > My point? damn I rambled.... Anyways 6 years later I > barely make over $8, I am one of the higher payed > people, I make more than the bookeeper for my store. I > know for a fact that the assistant store manager > barely makes more than me as they tried to get me to > do that, said wasnt worth making a couple more per > hour to take care of a store, I make more than that at > my other job as a part time manager for a produce > dept. They cant afford to pay people who know anything > about these animals as most people want to e paid for > what they are worth. I know I am worth more than $8, > but I use that jobs as gas money to get me back and > forth to school (biology major, gonna grad at the end > of the fall semester...woohoo go me!). And even so, > these jobs hire in a min wage, in ohio it is > $7...woohoo I will make a 1.25 more than a new hire! > And as stated, to give your time away for free....well > most people do not have free time. And also insurance > comes into play. To voluntee at the zoo, those people > although not workers are still covered by their health > insurance for the brief time they were there if > something happened. At a pet store, you are too much > of a liability, it is the same with like someone who > is under 15, its to much effort to have them. > > So it is back to the drawing board. I have always been > a firm believer in never buy your fish where youcan > buy clothing, but to get rid of fish in walmart would > doom some people to never get fish as walmart is > usually the only place out in the middle of nowhere > that will offer them. All I can say is if you buy > walmart fish, do yourself a favor and keep a small qt > tank to be sure you do not introduce anything into > your tank. Which is a good idea anyways reguardless of > where you buy from. Thankfully Toledo has alot of > options for fish places. > > *steps down from soap box*.....ooo tide I love tide! > > ~Melissa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25513	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

Randy, I agree about the Pacu's. People do not realize how large they, and zoo's are full of them already. I feel that way about te red tailed catfish. Although a seriously cool and beautiful fish, people seriously need to think about the fact that they wont be able to house this fish. --- theaquariumfish <webwholesaler@...> wrote: > (a response to a response to a response was trimmed > out of this post) > > I am not going to comment about PETA (unless they > sell A1 Sauce) > > WALMART - the one in Fuquay Varina, NC was out of > hand to the point > that I personally called the cops due to the level > of fish carcasses > that were in their tanks. > > In the evening it is the responsibility of the > Garden Center cashier > to service the fish buying customers - that means > terrible service > because those cashier's do NOT have the time to tend > to customer > needs - nor do most of them have the needed > knowledge to properly > answer basic aquaria questions. > > I do not know where the rumor that WalMart is going > out of the fish > sales came from - but in Holly Springs is a brand > new super walmart > that also has tanks. > > My BIGGEST complaint about them is their interest in > selling Pacu's > (aka Tank Busters) > They are neat looking tiny fish - that turn into > HUGE monsters. > IMO - they do NOT need to be sold to the community > fish tank owners. > > Randy > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25514	From: James	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

Hello, The local Pet stores in my area are OK. But now I actually buy my fish online at LiveAquaria.com <http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=ZRTEpOfmt7o&offerid=116952\ .10000036&type=4&subid=0> . They are great I like that I could find the fish I want, not going into a pet store and they might have the fish. Granted I had to pay $30 for shipping and Handling but I thought the experience was great I would do it again and I told all my friends about it. James <http://www.yourfishtankguru.com> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid behind the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about it after we left, or I probably would have given the kid an earfull.) > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd understand... although if there is an organization or whatever I can call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me know. > > Helen. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25515	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores

This boils back to my main comment that we need to complain to and about the managers, not the employees, departments or the entire company. Where are the managers while all of this stealing was going on? My bonus was based on how my bottom line turned out and I put many of employees in jail for stealing and I caught lots of them over the years. I own my own business now but when I use to work in retail management running a very large grocery store, which was part of a regional chain, I would constantly get on my co-managers butts about their jobs being "managing" their employees, not doing all the work themselves. I would stress to them that they need to constantly be moving around the store making sure everyone else was doing their jobs. If you stay in the office or in one area of the store too long, then the rest of the store can turn chaotic... or as I would say, they would be the only person working in the store while the other 100+ employees are goofing off, stealing or who-knows-what? This is the major problem that I see with many retail outlets, including Wal-Mart. The managers should be constantly roaming the store making sure all phases are operating properly... including the fish departments. The next time I'm in my nearby Wal-Mart, I will make a point of going to the fish department and if I see bad conditions, I'll promptly go to the customer service desk, have the manager page and walk them back to the fish department and ask for and GET an explanation and a promise... otherwise I'll threaten them with sicking PETA on them. LOL No, I won't call PETA but I will report the manager on duty to Wal-Mart's HQ and follow up with future visits to the fish department to make sure things stay running properly. You know the old saying about the squeaky wheel gets the grease! It almost always works in business and even more so in retail since they don't want you complaining loudly on the front end where the customer service counter is located. I don't have a problem appearing to be or being an A-Hole when I deem it necessary. Ask many of my former employees or just ask my daughter!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aaron102272 Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores Hello Melissa, Thank you for your post. I truly appreciate you sharing your experience. I am glad to see that there are others that are passionate, not just about this hobby, but about their beliefs as well. Your story demonstrates how much you care about doing the right thing. It also illustrates very accurately from an insiders perspective just how cautious we must be as consumers ~ "Buyer Beware" I too took a huge pay cut to work part time at a Big Box pet store after deciding I could do a better job than the current employees. I had no specific pet type experience, but I did have more years of work experience than most of them combined. There was absolutely no training other than the basics of working the cash register. And sad to say, most of the employees were only there because it was an easy way to make a fast buck, (read illegally i.e. fake returns, wholesale shoplifting, helping themselves to the cash out of the register, etc.. ) They were not even there because it was just a job, there was no question why the animals suffered. The only person who seemed to know anything about the Aquatics department was there just long enough to build his own business of maintaining the fish he was selling to the stores customers. He helped himself to plenty of "free" supplies to get started and left, but not before replacing almost all of the small care cards under each tank with his business cards. I saw a lot of turn over in a few short months, nobody that was there when I began was there when I left, I out lasted everyone, all the way up to the regional management. But it never got any better and the longer I stayed there the more difficult it became to be there and I to had to leave. I am glad I did have that store experience at the very beginning. I can't imagine what might have happened if I had continued blindly taking random advice from total strangers just because they wore a name tag or owned a small lfs. The last time I bought any fish from 1 in particular was how I learned about ich the hard way. I had a beautifully stocked 55 gallon planted community tank that was getting a little bit of algae. I went to the place down the street where the owner sold me a standard pleco with cool looking white spots, neat. A few weeks later the tank had to be torn down completely and I had to start all over. That is when I started shopping around and a lfs 30 miles away educated me on the basics and sold me a 12 gallon aquarium for use as a Quarantine Tank. That location was not as convenient as the 4 in town or several others a town away but they had the best customer service I had ever seen and they were dedicated to educating the customers as priority number one with the understanding that the money would follow. If the customers all give up due to bad advice then eventually there won't be any more cash coming in, but if you can get them more involved then they will be life long customers and will gladly recommend the store to friends. Sadly that store flooded twice from bad pipes in the walls or ceiling and the owner had to close permanently. Now I know to research first and buy later, it was difficult to give up the impulse buy. Thanks again for your post, hopefully there are many other quality pet store people out there. It seems unfair that we are too easily lumped into a generalized category with all the others that do not care about the animals or customers. Perhaps if we see somebody at a big box chain or lfs who really cares about what they are doing we can take the time to thank them and let the management know that the person is the only reason we keep coming back and that they deserve a raise and promotion. Maybe we can help get the few that do care into a postion to make a differance and possibly reverse the stereo-typical trend of bad service, poor care and under training ~ that seems like it would be better than just shutting them all down. Maybe. I can hope can't I. -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Melissa Walker <playnwifsnot@...> wrote: > > I wanted to add something, I havent read all the posts, just a couple. > I do work at a pet store (Pet Supplies Plus, in Toledo Ohio). And > money does lie within. When I was first hired into the company, my > manager at the time looked at my app and resume and told me, he cant > afford to pay me what he thought I was worth. I was hired in not as a > fish person, but as an animal person, mainly for reptiles and small > animals, but also for the birds. I took a big paycut as I was unhappy > working at my other job, I wanted out to do something I wold enjoy > more. So 6 years ago I was making 6 bucks an hour. Whoopie do for a > person who at the time, had 5 years of reptile care, cant count how > many years of small animal care, and I was raised on fish care as I > cant remember a time we didnt have fish (used to raise african > cichilids, we had wall to wall fishtanks in our garage for breeding). > > I soon dug waist deep into bird care, I personally do not like the > idea of selling an animal I didnt know anything about. So our bird > lady, yes a bird lady, she has had parrots for over 20 years, breeding > and caring. I would dig through her brain for info, joined bird > groups, read as much as possible. I am still this way even today as I > personally now own 2 parrots. I even have tought the bird lady a few > things as she didnt know all species, just most of the major ones(I > taught her alot about eclectus and caique thats what I have). I also > work for an exotics vets office, I am constantly running ideas about > care and info through both of our vets. > > And then it comes to fish. Fish are like every other animal to me in > the store, if I dont know things about a species, I will look it up. > Mainly the brackish water fish. Again I personally do not like to sell > an animal without knowing the specs on it. I forwarn people about the > size the fish will get, inform them that they are schoolers and get > more than 1 or 2 of them (I push for a min of 5, which usually works). > And for instance last week told a kid who had 2 oscars(about 9" long), > a 4" convict, 2 8" pacu all in a 55 ggallon tank he seriously needed > to get a larger tank, or get rid of all but 1 oscar who really would > prefer to be in a 75 over a 55. I have talked him into giving my store > the pacu so that we might find them a larger home (usually when we get > the big fish in, we require the customer to have a certain size tank > before selling the fish to them). I also told him we would take the > oscars or the convict also, along with some random cichlids he didnt > know what it was that beat the crap out of all his other fish so it > was now condemed to a 20 gallon (9" long fish). Yet alone he does a > water change once a month on this tank that is way over populated. > Told him to do it at least once a week with all of those fish, even if > he decides to keep one oscar due to their size and messiness...ok that > isnt spelled right). > > Now had that been one of the other 3 customer service people would he > have been told any of that? No. Why? > They work there because it is a job. The one girl presses me for > animal info, and if we do get a new strange animal that there is not a > correct caresheet for(yes I review and make my vets review it also), I > will hand write a quick cheat sheet as I call it, so they will know > size, temperment, feeding, tank space needed ect for the anima > reguardless if its a bird, reptile or fish. What is funny is that only > the one customer service person besides me gives a hoot, and we have a > few cashiers who would check the sheets for info, it is sad when the > cashier makes more of an effort than the actual animal person. > > My point? damn I rambled.... Anyways 6 years later I barely make over > $8, I am one of the higher payed people, I make more than the > bookeeper for my store. I know for a fact that the assistant store > manager barely makes more than me as they tried to get me to do that, > said wasnt worth making a couple more per hour to take care of a > store, I make more than that at my other job as a part time manager > for a produce dept. They cant afford to pay people who know anything > about these animals as most people want to e paid for what they are > worth. I know I am worth more than $8, but I use that jobs as gas > money to get me back and forth to school (biology major, gonna grad at > the end of the fall semester...woohoo go me!). And even so, these jobs > hire in a min wage, in ohio it is $7...woohoo I will make a 1.25 more > than a new hire! > And as stated, to give your time away for free....well most people do > not have free time. And also insurance comes into play. To voluntee at > the zoo, those people although not workers are still covered by their > health insurance for the brief time they were there if something > happened. At a pet store, you are too much of a liability, it is the > same with like someone who is under 15, its to much effort to have > them. > > So it is back to the drawing board. I have always been a firm believer > in never buy your fish where youcan buy clothing, but to get rid of > fish in walmart would doom some people to never get fish as walmart is > usually the only place out in the middle of nowhere that will offer > them. All I can say is if you buy walmart fish, do yourself a favor > and keep a small qt tank to be sure you do not introduce anything into > your tank. Which is a good idea anyways reguardless of where you buy > from. Thankfully Toledo has alot of options for fish places. > > *steps down from soap box*.....ooo tide I love tide! > > ~Melissa No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1240 - Release Date: 1/23/2008 5:47 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25516	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/24/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

Speaking of A-1 Sauce, while looking at some other "truth about PETA" sites, I saw and liked the billboard on this site... http://www.peta-sucks.com/ (For this site, PETA stands for Poorly Educated Teen Activists... lol) The billboard reads... "There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes." LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theaquariumfish Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 6:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores....WalMart?? (a response to a response to a response was trimmed out of this post) I am not going to comment about PETA (unless they sell A1 Sauce) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1240 - Release Date: 1/23/2008 5:47 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25518	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful

I have read so many mixed review on these fish.I had one blue I inherited with a tank.She was fine until I moved her from a crowded tank to a smaller tank with less fish.I had to move her back,and she went crazy.So I moved her to smaller tank,and bought 6 to go with her.I had read on one of the sites(don't remember which one,now)that they are happier with a group.Well,she is happy,but three of the new members are terrors.One is honey colored,two are blue with red fins.I am afraid I have ended up with fish I can't keep together.They are in a 30 tall,they are only 2"each,and I was planning to move them to a planted 55 gallon when I get it cycled.Will this help?Any suggestions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25519	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....WalMart??

LET ME SAY THIS: I am very ANTI PETA - not because a small part of what they do is ACTUALLY good ... It's the BIG PART of their socialist mindset and the errors they have committed by reacting without enough thought ... Like the time a bunch of them released "Show Dog's" from their crates just to have some of them get run over by traffic that they ran out in. If they weren't so spastic - even I might consider supporting them to a point. but that is them and I am me and I laugh at it for what it is worth! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Speaking of A-1 Sauce, while looking at some other "truth about PETA" sites, > I saw and liked the billboard on this site... > > http://www.peta-sucks.com/ (For this site, PETA stands for Poorly Educated > Teen Activists... lol) > > The billboard reads... > > "There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the > mashed potatoes." > > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of theaquariumfish > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 6:58 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores....WalMart?? > > (a response to a response to a response was trimmed out of this post) > > I am not going to comment about PETA (unless they sell A1 Sauce) > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1240 - Release Date: 1/23/2008 > 5:47 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25520	From: Angela	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful

I'm guessing here, but a 30 tall does not offer a lot of true swimming space I have 4 gourami's myself, 2 blues and 2 flames. They like to swim a lot and they need a tank with a larger footprint to be able to move enough. They also all seem to have their own "territory". Do to the shape of the 30 tall this is likely to be harder for them. I would guess they would be a lot more peaceful once moved. Angela -------Original Message------- From: sheriartist57 Date: 01/25/08 08:11:07 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful I have read so many mixed review on these fish.I had one blue I inherited with a tank.She was fine until I moved her from a crowded tank to a smaller tank with less fish.I had to move her back,and she went crazy.So I moved her to smaller tank,and bought 6 to go with her.I had read on one of the sites(don't remember which one,now)that they are happier with a group.Well,she is happy,but three of the new members are terrors.One is honey colored,two are blue with red fins.I am afraid I have ended up with fish I can't keep together.They are in a 30 tall,they are only 2"each,and I was planning to move them to a planted 55 gallon when I get it cycled.Will this help?Any suggestions? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25521	From: Frederic Ouellet	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful

I've never had any luck keeping more than one unless bought at the same time. I have only one now and he is happy in a 55 gallon Cynthia ----- Original Message ----- From: sheriartist57 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 8:10 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful I have read so many mixed review on these fish.I had one blue I inherited with a tank.She was fine until I moved her from a crowded tank to a smaller tank with less fish.I had to move her back,and she went crazy.So I moved her to smaller tank,and bought 6 to go with her.I had read on one of the sites(don't remember which one,now)that they are happier with a group.Well,she is happy,but three of the new members are terrors.One is honey colored,two are blue with red fins.I am afraid I have ended up with fish I can't keep together.They are in a 30 tall,they are only 2"each,and I was planning to move them to a planted 55 gallon when I get it cycled.Will this help?Any suggestions? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25522	From: William	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

I am not saying that you should not shop online because I have done it at times but rather when you shop on line you cannot see the particular fish that yo want and you are getting which fish that gets caught by the employee, You might be trying to get some to breed for you and the employee might give you all of one sex whereas if you can see them you have some control as to which one(s) you are getting. It is stressful to ship[fish across the country and I reserve buying through the mail for only the kinds of fish that I cannot find locally. This is a good reason for quarantine tanks to help keep any diseases from infecting either the existing or new fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jim_d72@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > The local Pet stores in my area are OK. But now I actually buy my fish > online at LiveAquaria.com > <http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click? id=ZRTEpOfmt7o&offerid=116952\ > .10000036&type=4&subid=0> . They are great I like that I could find > the fish I want, not going into a pet store and they might have the > fish. Granted I had to pay $30 for shipping and Handling but I thought > the experience was great I would do it again and I told all my friends > about it. > > James <http://www.yourfishtankguru.com> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@> > wrote: > > > > This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked > out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions that > you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the fish > that were living or the ones that were dead.... is there ANY > (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, but I went into > this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower when I > left, just walking around made me feel yucky. The occasional dead fish > I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in > local outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was tired of > getting stupid advice from the kid at the other place I (though) I like > to go. The last straw was when the kid behind the counter told my > husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim upside down. I > didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about it after we left, or I > probably would have given the kid an earfull.) > > > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd > understand... although if there is an organization or whatever I can > call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me know. > > > > Helen. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25523	From: Rich	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: New member, stocking question

Hi all, Just joined up. I'm new to 'participatory fishkeeping', meaning that we had fish growing up but other than feed and enjoy I didn't get too involved with the upkeep :) So I'm calling myself a beginner in most respects. We have a 12 gallon Eclipse tank with 5 Harlequin Rasboras & 1 Hillstream Loach. The tank is decorated with plastic plants, and a sunken ship decoration which the loach has claimed for home when he's not darting about the tank. I don't know what else to get. I know it would only be one or two more fish. Another Hillstream or a couple more Rasboras are definitely possibilities, and especially the rasboras would be safe bets. But I figured I'd ask. I'd rather understock it than risk overstocking. Based on what I've read online, I've decided to not bother with chemically adjusting my ph (which is around 7.6 out of the tap). My LFS is literally up the road and uses the same water supply. and the water is a little on the hard side (though I confess I don't have a number handy on that one). Thanks! Rich

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25524	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful

Any gourami can be quite nasty, with conspecifics or other species. You need to provide a lot of cover so that they can stake out territories to call their own. This works particularly well for dwarfs, which it sounds like you have purchased to go with your blue. The blue will get quite large, but the dwarfs will be around 2 inches when full grown. You can use heavy plantings, and/or rockwork, and/or driftwood to provide these areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 8:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful I have read so many mixed review on these fish.I had one blue I inherited with a tank.She was fine until I moved her from a crowded tank to a smaller tank with less fish.I had to move her back,and she went crazy.So I moved her to smaller tank,and bought 6 to go with her.I had read on one of the sites(don't remember which one,now)that they are happier with a group.Well,she is happy,but three of the new members are terrors.One is honey colored,two are blue with red fins.I am afraid I have ended up with fish I can't keep together.They are in a 30 tall,they are only 2"each,and I was planning to move them to a planted 55 gallon when I get it cycled.Will this help?Any suggestions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25525	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: New member, stocking question

You are pretty much full up on your stocking for this size tank. Your harlequins will get to be about 2" and your hillstream loach (not really a loach) will grow to around 3". \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New member, stocking question Hi all, Just joined up. I'm new to 'participatory fishkeeping', meaning that we had fish growing up but other than feed and enjoy I didn't get too involved with the upkeep :) So I'm calling myself a beginner in most respects. We have a 12 gallon Eclipse tank with 5 Harlequin Rasboras & 1 Hillstream Loach. The tank is decorated with plastic plants, and a sunken ship decoration which the loach has claimed for home when he's not darting about the tank. I don't know what else to get. I know it would only be one or two more fish. Another Hillstream or a couple more Rasboras are definitely possibilities, and especially the rasboras would be safe bets. But I figured I'd ask. I'd rather understock it than risk overstocking. Based on what I've read online, I've decided to not bother with chemically adjusting my ph (which is around 7.6 out of the tap). My LFS is literally up the road and uses the same water supply. and the water is a little on the hard side (though I confess I don't have a number handy on that one). Thanks! Rich

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful

You need to figure out which species of Gourami's that you have. Go to http://fish.mongabay.com and search for Gourami and look at the various species pictures until you have all of yours identified. Standard Gourami's grow to 6" each so your 30G tall tank is actually too small for them. Even the 55G would be too small for six standard Gourami's. If they are the dwarf varieties, then you may be OK although labyrinth fish like Gourami's typically do better in a regular tank with more surface area since they are upper tank dwellers since they surface breath also. My personal experience with standard Gourami's is that they do better as singles or mated pairs but the dwarf species may tolerate groups better. What are your plans for cycling the 55G? Why not just plant it and move the filter system from the 30G which would instantly cycle the tank since the majority of your nitrifying bacteria live in the filter media and any you lose that are living on the gravel and other surface areas will be compensated for the extra water volume and the plants. That's what I would do instead of keeping the fish cramped in the 30G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 7:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful I have read so many mixed review on these fish.I had one blue I inherited with a tank.She was fine until I moved her from a crowded tank to a smaller tank with less fish.I had to move her back,and she went crazy.So I moved her to smaller tank,and bought 6 to go with her.I had read on one of the sites(don't remember which one,now)that they are happier with a group.Well,she is happy,but three of the new members are terrors.One is honey colored,two are blue with red fins.I am afraid I have ended up with fish I can't keep together.They are in a 30 tall,they are only 2"each,and I was planning to move them to a planted 55 gallon when I get it cycled.Will this help?Any suggestions? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1242 - Release Date: 1/24/2008 8:32 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25527	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: New member, stocking question

Your tank is undersized for the hillstream loach and most of them also prefer a fast moving stream so people set up their tanks with powerheads or over filtration to simulate a stream. There are many species of hillstream loaches so you need to figure out which species you have to learn more about it's needs. Here's a really good article about them. http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-i n-the-fast-lane For a 12G tank, you could look over Hailey's 10G stocking list on my blog to get a better idea of which fish would be suitable for your tank and suggested stocking levels. Just go to my blog link in my sig and on the right side, you will see a link to "10G stocking list". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 3:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New member, stocking question Hi all, Just joined up. I'm new to 'participatory fishkeeping', meaning that we had fish growing up but other than feed and enjoy I didn't get too involved with the upkeep :) So I'm calling myself a beginner in most respects. We have a 12 gallon Eclipse tank with 5 Harlequin Rasboras & 1 Hillstream Loach. The tank is decorated with plastic plants, and a sunken ship decoration which the loach has claimed for home when he's not darting about the tank. I don't know what else to get. I know it would only be one or two more fish. Another Hillstream or a couple more Rasboras are definitely possibilities, and especially the rasboras would be safe bets. But I figured I'd ask. I'd rather understock it than risk overstocking. Based on what I've read online, I've decided to not bother with chemically adjusting my ph (which is around 7.6 out of the tap). My LFS is literally up the road and uses the same water supply. and the water is a little on the hard side (though I confess I don't have a number handy on that one). Thanks! Rich No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1242 - Release Date: 1/24/2008 8:32 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25528	From: Amy	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Re: wallmart vs petco

Ok just now getting to sift through my email and stumbled across this. Does it really matter the store? What matters is how the fish are kept right? I read the post about an actual fish store being crappy and thought that 2 in my town were both great thank goodness. Now the PetCo's in my town are absolutly horrible and I would never buy a fish from them. My Petsmart is great and I usually get my regular fish there if not ordered from the fish store guy. I do have to defend my WalMart. We have 5 in my town and 3 of them keep their fish very well. I actually have purchased a lot of fish there that I of course had little hope for. I alwasy think that teh fish wont make it because I got it at WalMart, but I'll be damned if those fish I have gotten there actually do better than soem of my fish store fish. I have a 3 yr old Green Spotted Puffer and a 1 yr old Figure Eight Puffer who were both purchased at WalMart. As far as I am concerned the WalMart has every right to sell fish as long as they hire someone who knows how to care for them and they obey all the state laws and regulations in regards to selling and keeping fish.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25529	From: Amy	Date: 1/25/2008
Subject: Labelled My Pics

Finally got around to it and sorry it took so long. The new pics that are listed are mine and I just got done labelling all of them so you guys know who is who.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25530	From: Blue fish	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C43435950404C425A445146445A515F4B ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C43435950404C425A445146445A515F4B Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C43435950404C425A445146445A515F4E Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25531	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Gourami- Mine are definitely not peaceful

Over the years I've learned to ignore the books when they say gouramis are peaceful. I've had a few blues and golds over the years and they were alright with other types of fish, but they didn't tolerate their own kind at all. Actually, the Golds did seem a little tamer. I think the most peaceful I ever had were pearl gouramis. I never see them in stores any more though. A few months ago I broke down and bought a single male dwarf gourami. Even in a planted 4ft long 90 gallon tank, he terrorized everything in the tank to the point of actually killing a very small bala. I now have him alone in a 10gal just wondering what I'm going to do with him. He's too mean to go back with my other fish and I don't really like having him in a 10 as the only tenant. But to answer your original post, I would say they are only suited to a long tank with pleanty of hiding places. Unless he's like mine. ;-) I read somewhere else that someone had a mean dwarf until they let him breed. I thought I would try that, but my trouble is none of the stores around here ever seem to have females. That's actually another interesting topic. I had read that over in XYZ where most of them are raised, they add hormones to the water so they all turn male and get the brighter colors. That particular article was saying how the "new" dwarfs were actually meaner than years past because of this. I've read several places about the farms using the hormones so I believe that. Not sure about that being why they seem so mean now days. Just found it interesting. Don't suppose anyone has an extra female dwarf gourami laying around they could send me. LOL Lynn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Live in the North Georgia area? Then check out the North Georgia Aquarium Club at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NorthGAAquariumClub/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25532	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

_dreamaker2623@..._ (mailto:dreamaker2623@...) wrote :"It is stressful to ship across the country and reserve buying through the mail for those kinds of fish I cannot find locally" Most pet shop fish are sent across the country to the pet stores or even across the ocean from the many fish farms outside the county. Very few if any are bred close to the pet shop. There are good experiences in both sides. I have a LFS that has good freshwater fish. But they don't carrry what I am looking for. They don't have many of the Anabantoids that I am intersed like Species bettas and freshwater shrimp. I believe that shipping across the country is easily handled by most fish if the person sending them is experienced in doing so. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25533	From: iowakoi	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: New member introduction

Thanks for the welcome. I found your group by searching the yahoo groups. I am a active member of many forums. I find that the best way to learn about the hobby is by working closely with other ponders. I post tons of great articles and links on http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com <http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> . If you know of any great links please let me know. I do indeed sell koi and live plants in season and a full line of pond supplies year round. I am always adding new products to the website. Even if you don't see it listed I can get almost anything if you call or email me. I also give a 10% discount for forum members that order by email or phone. I don't list that discount on the site because I prefer to deal directly with serious ponders. I have a smaller lots so my dream large pond isn't possible. So I just keep adding small ponds each year. It does limit me to fancies instead of koi. I love having a 140 gallon stock tank pond in the living room over the winter. It's too cold for fancies in the Iowa weather. I can't wait for Spring. I have over 200 varieties of flowers in 18 raised beds. I am the newsletter editor for the Central Iowa Water Garden Assocation and a member of the Eastern Iowa Pond Society. Waiting for Spring, Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25534	From: o1bigtenor	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

On Jan 24, 2008 6:44 PM, James <jim_d72@...> wrote: > Hello, > > The local Pet stores in my area are OK. But now I actually buy my fish > online at LiveAquaria.com > <http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=ZRTEpOfmt7o&offerid=116952\ > .10000036&type=4&subid=0<http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=ZRTEpOfmt7o&offerid=116952%5C.10000036&type=4&subid=0>> > . They are great I like that I could find > the fish I want, not going into a pet store and they might have the > fish. Granted I had to pay $30 for shipping and Handling but I thought > the experience was great I would do it again and I told all my friends > about it. > > James <http://www.yourfishtankguru.com> Your link does not seem to work - suggestions? Darald [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25535	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

Darald and Jim_d72, You can just go to http://www.LiveAquaria.com or their sister site, http://DrsFosterSmith.com , which is where they sell most of their hardware and supplies. The link Jim_d72 posted was his affiliate link but those types of affiliate links are usually too long for yahoo group postings so they get broken up and do not work. Or you could copy/paste the long link into your web browser address bar and fix any breaks to make it work if you want to make sure he gets credit for any purchases you make. That's a huge problem with websites that offer an affiliate program but then they give you a link that is a mile long and doesn't work for many people. The only affiliate program I belong to is a free online backup service through Mozy.com and at least they give me a little short affiliate link which I include in the signature of my posts to groups where it is applicable but since I'm explaining all of this to you, I might as well plug my Mozy link. LOL I get an extra 250MB of online storage for each person that signs up for the free Mozy Backup service. FREE and automatic online secure remote backup of your documents, photos and files... https://mozy.com/?ref=SY4ZSI Check out how simple and secure it can be to use the Mozy remote backup system. Mozy will back up your most important files and folders every day/night while you aren't using your computer. I don't know why LiveAquaria.com doesn't just have a simple referral link. They are a very good company to deal with but their affiliate program needs some work. For Jim_d72, I would suggest getting a TinyURL link from http://www.TinyURL.com and use the preview link they'll give you. Then when you advise someone to go to LiveAquaria.com, post your TinyURL link and explain to them that if they click through your affiliate link, you will get some credit for any purchases they make. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of o1bigtenor Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... On Jan 24, 2008 6:44 PM, James <jim_d72@... <mailto:jim_d72%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > Hello, > > The local Pet stores in my area are OK. But now I actually buy my fish > online at LiveAquaria.com > <http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=ZRTEpOfmt7o&offerid=1169 > 52\ <http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=ZRTEpOfmt7o&offerid=116952> > .10000036&type=4&subid=0<http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=ZRTEpO fmt7o&offerid=116952%5C.10000036&type=4&subid=0 <http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=ZRTEpOfmt7o&offerid=116952%5C. 10000036&type=4&subid=0> >> > . They are great I like that I could find the fish I want, not going > into a pet store and they might have the fish. Granted I had to pay > $30 for shipping and Handling but I thought the experience was great I > would do it again and I told all my friends about it. > > James <http://www.yourfishtankguru.com > <http://www.yourfishtankguru.com> > Your link does not seem to work - suggestions? Darald No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25536	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

On Saturday I visited the LFS. Upon entering the Owner and his Employees were all over me. Where Had I Been? How come they haven't seen me in the last few weeks? How was my tank doing? Had I purchased any fish recently? When I told them that I had purchased some fish, they wanted to know why I hadn't given them a chance. I told them that they didn't seem to be interested in my needs. They said I had read them all wrong. Would I Please give them another chance? At this point they asked me if I wanted any more fish. I said that I would like 5-6 "Saulosi". They told me that they would be placing an order on Monday and they would order the fish I wanted. They asked for my Phone Number and said that they would call me on monday to confirm the order had been placed. I told them they were closed on Monday, they said it didn't make any difference, they would be doing maintenance and would place the order. They said they were happy I decided to give them another chance, that this time I could count on them. Well Monday came, no phone call. Tuesday no phone call, Wednesday no phone call. Can I say any more. They will never see me again. Now I know it was not me, it was them. I have gone out of my way to try to establish a good relationship with 2 local LFS's and have found that you either stock your tank with what they want to sell or you have to find an alternative. Recently I tried to explain to my wife why I was willing to spend all most double for some equipment in a local store, when I could go on line and get it much less expensive. The reason I said "Was to establish a relationship, so when I either purchased some equipment, food, additives,etc in an emergency or purchased stock, there was a place to turn to". Well, over the last couple of weeks the local LFS's have shot holes in my theory. I gave both stores a list of fish I wanted to stock my tank with. now this was nothing exotic, just run of the mill Malawi, mbuna. However it was a group I put together to add color and were compatible with each other. Both stores have failed to get me a price, one has failed to even try, giving me a different excuse each time. The other informed me today very abruptly that they couln't get them. They were not even nice about, in fact they were rude. I have learned that from now on it is strictly the INTERNET for me. I will make sure I keep my supplies up to date and have no intention of even going into those stores again. For the record here is the list: 5 Pseudotropheus saulosi 2m-3f 5 Labidochromis caeruleus "Yellow Lab" 2m-3f 5 Iodotropheus sprengerae "Rusty" 2m-3f 5 Cynotilapia afra 2m-3f What happened to Customer Service have we all turned that cold in our daily dealings I posted this on another Board some time back. Since that time both stores have declared Bankruptcy, I WONDER WHY!!!!!!! John in Nevada joesbirds@... wrote: _dreamaker2623@..._ (mailto:dreamaker2623@...) wrote :"It is stressful to ship across the country and reserve buying through the mail for those kinds of fish I cannot find locally" Most pet shop fish are sent across the country to the pet stores or even across the ocean from the many fish farms outside the county. Very few if any are bred close to the pet shop. There are good experiences in both sides. I have a LFS that has good freshwater fish. But they don't carrry what I am looking for. They don't have many of the Anabantoids that I am intersed like Species bettas and freshwater shrimp. I believe that shipping across the country is easily handled by most fish if the person sending them is experienced in doing so. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25537	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

I buy my fish at saltwater.com, processing fee is cheap, they have weekly deals, and have a frequent order program ----- Original Message ---- From: James <jim_d72@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 8:44:54 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... Hello, The local Pet stores in my area are OK. But now I actually buy my fish online at LiveAquaria. com <http://click. linksynergy. com/fs-bin/ click?id= ZRTEpOfmt7o& offerid=116952\ .10000036&type= 4&subid=0> . They are great I like that I could find the fish I want, not going into a pet store and they might have the fish. Granted I had to pay $30 for shipping and Handling but I thought the experience was great I would do it again and I told all my friends about it. James <http://www.yourfish tankguru. com> --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@ ...> wrote: > > This isn't really related to anything, but... has anyone ever walked out of an aquarium store and felt so grossed out by the conditions that you wanted a shower... ? I don't know who I felt sorrier for the fish that were living or the ones that were dead.... is there ANY (reasonable) recourse? I'm not a crusader or anything, but I went into this place yesterday and really just wanted to take a shower when I left, just walking around made me feel yucky. The occasional dead fish I guess is part of the trade but... blegh. (I'm loosing my faith in local outlets; I went looking for a new shop because I was tired of getting stupid advice from the kid at the other place I (though) I like to go. The last straw was when the kid behind the counter told my husband how perfectly normal it was for goldfish to swim upside down. I didn't hear it personally, hubby told me about it after we left, or I probably would have given the kid an earfull.) > > Thanks for listening, I guess mostly I needed somebody who'd understand.. . although if there is an organization or whatever I can call to report a hideously poorly maintained store, please let me know. > > Helen. > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25538	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

Hi John, That is too bad, sorry to hear that they let you down like that. In the last couple years I have had a new perspective to my fish keeping. I am lucky enough to be one of the people that picks up fish at our local wholesaler for two of the Aquarium societies that I belong to. What I have discovered is that things are not always readily available and many different factors play into the availability of fish for stores and consumers. This last Xmas season the wholesaler had a difficult time getting any fish in stock unless it was from local breeders that brought them fish. The xmas shipping of electronics and other holiday items almost put fish shipping completely on hold. As the electronics shippers were willing to pay higher rates for shipping, the fish did not have much chance of being shipped in a timely manner without endangering them. So getting fish cross country from fish farms or overseas fish farms was very difficult. A few years ago I wanted a badis badis from my LFS. They said they would order one for me and it took them three weeks to get one in for me. I did not like the wait but was glad to get the fish. Now that I go to the same wholesaler that supplies them I see that sometimes they don't have them and other fish on a regular basis especially if a species is wild caught. Picking and choosing on the Internet does have advantages. If one site does not have the buffalo heads that I want I can look around and find one that does. My LFS may not stock them as they do not know if there is an interest in them. As we decrease our interest in an LFS stocking a wider variety of fish they have to stick to their bread and butter varieties to keep the entry level aquarist satisfied. Because the bread and butter species sell. A friend of mine recently bought Betta Macrostoma, a fish she has wanted since she was 7 years old but could never find in a store. Well a local store took a risk and bought them and my friend saw them and forked out hundreds to get them. Well worth it to her as the fish were healthy and in two days produced eggs. The wholesaler I go to is frustrated and really wants to make more rare fish available to the fish stores he supplies but they do not order the rarer stuff because they do not want to risk putting a fish in a tank if it is just going to sit on the shelf with no one buying it. I like the best of both worlds, a well stocked educated LFS and the Internet. I know it is not always possible though. I give my local LFS as much business as possible and buy from local breeders as well. I also use the Internet for harder to find items that I cannot get locally. The LFS that I bought the Badis badis from happens to have excellent customer service and is where I got my start in fish keeping. I bought an entry level tank with kit and worked my way up from there. As many people find out sometimes the entry level kits do not have the best items in them. When my heater broke the LFS traded me out a new one without hesitation. I could barely finish explaining it to them before they walked me back to the heaters and handed me a new one. THey have spent countless hours explaining fish keeping to me and now I try and repay them by not only continuing to shop there but referring people to them. There is another LFS across town that lost my business almost immediately but has remained in business for years. He led me to believe that the canister filter I purchased had the media included in the box. Well he did not offer to buy back the filter or sell me the filter media at a discount. Full price, but I learned something valuable, I could never trust him and that he would not get my business. I don't bad mouth his store but I never refer people to him either. -Mike What happened to Customer Service have we all turned that cold in our daily dealings I posted this on another Board some time back. Since that time both stores have declared Bankruptcy, I WONDER WHY!!!!!!! John in Nevada -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 2:06 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... On Saturday I visited the LFS. Upon entering the Owner and his Employees were all over me. Where Had I Been? How come they haven't seen me in the last few weeks? How was my tank doing? Had I purchased any fish recently? When I told them that I had purchased some fish, they wanted to know why I hadn't given them a chance. I told them that they didn't seem to be interested in my needs. They said I had read them all wrong. Would I Please give them another chance? At this point they asked me if I wanted any more fish. I said that I would like 5-6 "Saulosi". They told me that they would be placing an order on Monday and they would order the fish I wanted. They asked for my Phone Number and said that they would call me on monday to confirm the order had been placed. I told them they were closed on Monday, they said it didn't make any difference, they would be doing maintenance and would place the order. They said they were happy I decided to give them another chance, that this time I could count on them. Well Monday came, no phone call. Tuesday no phone call, Wednesday no phone call. Can I say any more. They will never see me again. Now I know it was not me, it was them. I have gone out of my way to try to establish a good relationship with 2 local LFS's and have found that you either stock your tank with what they want to sell or you have to find an alternative. Recently I tried to explain to my wife why I was willing to spend all most double for some equipment in a local store, when I could go on line and get it much less expensive. The reason I said "Was to establish a relationship, so when I either purchased some equipment, food, additives,etc in an emergency or purchased stock, there was a place to turn to". Well, over the last couple of weeks the local LFS's have shot holes in my theory. I gave both stores a list of fish I wanted to stock my tank with. now this was nothing exotic, just run of the mill Malawi, mbuna. However it was a group I put together to add color and were compatible with each other. Both stores have failed to get me a price, one has failed to even try, giving me a different excuse each time. The other informed me today very abruptly that they couln't get them. They were not even nice about, in fact they were rude. I have learned that from now on it is strictly the INTERNET for me. I will make sure I keep my supplies up to date and have no intention of even going into those stores again. For the record here is the list: 5 Pseudotropheus saulosi 2m-3f 5 Labidochromis caeruleus "Yellow Lab" 2m-3f 5 Iodotropheus sprengerae "Rusty" 2m-3f 5 Cynotilapia afra 2m-3f What happened to Customer Service have we all turned that cold in our daily dealings I posted this on another Board some time back. Since that time both stores have declared Bankruptcy, I WONDER WHY!!!!!!! John in Nevada joesbirds@... wrote: _dreamaker2623@..._ (mailto:dreamaker2623@...) wrote :"It is stressful to ship across the country and reserve buying through the mail for those kinds of fish I cannot find locally" Most pet shop fish are sent across the country to the pet stores or even across the ocean from the many fish farms outside the county. Very few if any are bred close to the pet shop. There are good experiences in both sides. I have a LFS that has good freshwater fish. But they don't carrry what I am looking for. They don't have many of the Anabantoids that I am intersed like Species bettas and freshwater shrimp. I believe that shipping across the country is easily handled by most fish if the person sending them is experienced in doing so. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25539	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

Hi Mike Let me clarify a feww points. First, this all happenned a few years ago. I only gave you a short version of all that took place. One of these dealers I helped when he was setting up his business. I realized he was in business to make money and told him that I would pay him for his trouble. He promised to get me my fish on several occassions and failed each time. Second, all it took was a little communication. If he told me he had trouble getting the fish I would have understood. However, he didn't even have the decency to call me. Third, I was reluctant to order fish on the internet, but found it to be the most pleasent experience in a long time, and they protected those fish so well I couldn't believe all the trouble they went to. They triple bagged them, the first 2 with air and the third without. Then they put them in a Styrofoam Container, but spread them out and put air bags between each bag. Oh yes they put each fish in a seperate bag. Then they shipped from Penn to my house in Nevada Overnight. I would, without a doubt do this again. All together I had 18 fish delivered. Fourth. the quality and condition of fish was far superior to any I have ever purchased locally. 3 years later they are all still alive and have bred several times. John in Nevada Deenerz@... wrote: Hi John, That is too bad, sorry to hear that they let you down like that. In the last couple years I have had a new perspective to my fish keeping. I am lucky enough to be one of the people that picks up fish at our local wholesaler for two of the Aquarium societies that I belong to. What I have discovered is that things are not always readily available and many different factors play into the availability of fish for stores and consumers. This last Xmas season the wholesaler had a difficult time getting any fish in stock unless it was from local breeders that brought them fish. The xmas shipping of electronics and other holiday items almost put fish shipping completely on hold. As the electronics shippers were willing to pay higher rates for shipping, the fish did not have much chance of being shipped in a timely manner without endangering them. So getting fish cross country from fish farms or overseas fish farms was very difficult. A few years ago I wanted a badis badis from my LFS. They said they would order one for me and it took them three weeks to get one in for me. I did not like the wait but was glad to get the fish. Now that I go to the same wholesaler that supplies them I see that sometimes they don't have them and other fish on a regular basis especially if a species is wild caught. Picking and choosing on the Internet does have advantages. If one site does not have the buffalo heads that I want I can look around and find one that does. My LFS may not stock them as they do not know if there is an interest in them. As we decrease our interest in an LFS stocking a wider variety of fish they have to stick to their bread and butter varieties to keep the entry level aquarist satisfied. Because the bread and butter species sell. A friend of mine recently bought Betta Macrostoma, a fish she has wanted since she was 7 years old but could never find in a store. Well a local store took a risk and bought them and my friend saw them and forked out hundreds to get them. Well worth it to her as the fish were healthy and in two days produced eggs. The wholesaler I go to is frustrated and really wants to make more rare fish available to the fish stores he supplies but they do not order the rarer stuff because they do not want to risk putting a fish in a tank if it is just going to sit on the shelf with no one buying it. I like the best of both worlds, a well stocked educated LFS and the Internet. I know it is not always possible though. I give my local LFS as much business as possible and buy from local breeders as well. I also use the Internet for harder to find items that I cannot get locally. The LFS that I bought the Badis badis from happens to have excellent customer service and is where I got my start in fish keeping. I bought an entry level tank with kit and worked my way up from there. As many people find out sometimes the entry level kits do not have the best items in them. When my heater broke the LFS traded me out a new one without hesitation. I could barely finish explaining it to them before they walked me back to the heaters and handed me a new one. THey have spent countless hours explaining fish keeping to me and now I try and repay them by not only continuing to shop there but referring people to them. There is another LFS across town that lost my business almost immediately but has remained in business for years. He led me to believe that the canister filter I purchased had the media included in the box. Well he did not offer to buy back the filter or sell me the filter media at a discount. Full price, but I learned something valuable, I could never trust him and that he would not get my business. I don't bad mouth his store but I never refer people to him either. -Mike What happened to Customer Service have we all turned that cold in our daily dealings I posted this on another Board some time back. Since that time both stores have declared Bankruptcy, I WONDER WHY!!!!!!! John in Nevada -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 2:06 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... On Saturday I visited the LFS. Upon entering the Owner and his Employees were all over me. Where Had I Been? How come they haven't seen me in the last few weeks? How was my tank doing? Had I purchased any fish recently? When I told them that I had purchased some fish, they wanted to know why I hadn't given them a chance. I told them that they didn't seem to be interested in my needs. They said I had read them all wrong. Would I Please give them another chance? At this point they asked me if I wanted any more fish. I said that I would like 5-6 "Saulosi". They told me that they would be placing an order on Monday and they would order the fish I wanted. They asked for my Phone Number and said that they would call me on monday to confirm the order had been placed. I told them they were closed on Monday, they said it didn't make any difference, they would be doing maintenance and would place the order. They said they were happy I decided to give them another chance, that this time I could count on them. Well Monday came, no phone call. Tuesday no phone call, Wednesday no phone call. Can I say any more. They will never see me again. Now I know it was not me, it was them. I have gone out of my way to try to establish a good relationship with 2 local LFS's and have found that you either stock your tank with what they want to sell or you have to find an alternative. Recently I tried to explain to my wife why I was willing to spend all most double for some equipment in a local store, when I could go on line and get it much less expensive. The reason I said "Was to establish a relationship, so when I either purchased some equipment, food, additives,etc in an emergency or purchased stock, there was a place to turn to". Well, over the last couple of weeks the local LFS's have shot holes in my theory. I gave both stores a list of fish I wanted to stock my tank with. now this was nothing exotic, just run of the mill Malawi, mbuna. However it was a group I put together to add color and were compatible with each other. Both stores have failed to get me a price, one has failed to even try, giving me a different excuse each time. The other informed me today very abruptly that they couln't get them. They were not even nice about, in fact they were rude. I have learned that from now on it is strictly the INTERNET for me. I will make sure I keep my supplies up to date and have no intention of even going into those stores again. For the record here is the list: 5 Pseudotropheus saulosi 2m-3f 5 Labidochromis caeruleus "Yellow Lab" 2m-3f 5 Iodotropheus sprengerae "Rusty" 2m-3f 5 Cynotilapia afra 2m-3f What happened to Customer Service have we all turned that cold in our daily dealings I posted this on another Board some time back. Since that time both stores have declared Bankruptcy, I WONDER WHY!!!!!!! John in Nevada joesbirds@... wrote: _dreamaker2623@..._ (mailto:dreamaker2623@...) wrote :"It is stressful to ship across the country and reserve buying through the mail for those kinds of fish I cannot find locally" Most pet shop fish are sent across the country to the pet stores or even across the ocean from the many fish farms outside the county. Very few if any are bred close to the pet shop. There are good experiences in both sides. I have a LFS that has good freshwater fish. But they don't carrry what I am looking for. They don't have many of the Anabantoids that I am intersed like Species bettas and freshwater shrimp. I believe that shipping across the country is easily handled by most fish if the person sending them is experienced in doing so. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25540	From: o1bigtenor	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

On Jan 26, 2008 4:37 PM, marsha wilburn <alien8mipussy@...> wrote: > I buy my fish at saltwater.com, processing fee is cheap, they have weekly > deals, and have a frequent order program Not sure but when I went to the site it is a link page and there seems to be absolutely NOTHING about fish on it! D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25541	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

Yeah, it looks like Saltwater.com is just a parked domain name for now. Maybe they meant http://www.Saltwaterfish.com which does sell fish, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of o1bigtenor Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... On Jan 26, 2008 4:37 PM, marsha wilburn <alien8mipussy@... <mailto:alien8mipussy%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > I buy my fish at saltwater.com, processing fee is cheap, they have > weekly deals, and have a frequent order program Not sure but when I went to the site it is a link page and there seems to be absolutely NOTHING about fish on it! D [ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25542	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking

Does anyone have some suggestions for stocking a 60 gallon tall,besides angels and discus.I have some black inkfin cichlids coming,they are still too small,would they work? It will be a freshwater,or brackish,but I am not sure what to put in different water levels. And is there anything I can add to a tank with a spoiled oscar who is 10",about a year old? Fortunately my pleco is longer than he is,but I wish I could add something he wouldn't eat.He is in a 55 withgreat filtration. Thanks,Sheri

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25543	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking

What is the length and width of the tank? When you say inkfin cichlids, do you mean Altolamprologus Calvus Inkfin? If so I have some suggestions on that tank. No suggestions on the oscar though, maybe Ray will chime in. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help with 60 gal tall,stocking Does anyone have some suggestions for stocking a 60 gallon tall,besides angels and discus.I have some black inkfin cichlids coming,they are still too small,would they work? It will be a freshwater,or brackish,but I am not sure what to put in different water levels. And is there anything I can add to a tank with a spoiled oscar who is 10",about a year old? Fortunately my pleco is longer than he is,but I wish I could add something he wouldn't eat.He is in a 55 withgreat filtration. Thanks,Sheri [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25544	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

Huh?? http://www.saltwater.com/? it looks like a link list ... I am about to set up my first saltwater tank (this will put over 600 gallons in my livingroom) and always looking for the odd and unusual livestock. Thankfully - there are a lot of SW LFS's here in NC! Take care! Randy Coming Soon - a Vortex Community - become a Charter Member - Free http://www.webwholesaler.com/NewCommunity.html --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, marsha wilburn <alien8mipussy@...> wrote: > > I buy my fish at saltwater.com, processing fee is cheap, they have weekly deals, and have a frequent order program

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25545	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

As a very broad generalization, customer "service" is becoming a thing of the past (this goes for most businesses, it seems.) There are a few places that still put value on their customer relations, but saddly many do not... I have no idea why, especially in this market (I'm in Michigan and you want to talk about a bad economy....) No one has a lot of money to spend and most people would rather spend their money in a place that seems to value them as a customer (presumably that even goes for those rude store clerks we keep running into but - somehow the message just doesn't get through.) I don't know what's with this decline, but a few too many years in various service industries (restaurant and now library) have made me accutely aware of the decline in customer service. I have finally just gone back to the first fish ship I went to, just because it was close; they're clean, friendly and knowledgable, so when it comes to routine things (food, filter media, etc.) I'll buy from them. Unfortunately, they don't tend to have a huge inventory of fishes or plants and I'm pretty specific about what I want, so for those things, I prefer to order via the internet because you cand find whatever you want, whenever you want and buy it at three o'clock in the morning wearing a bathrobe and fuzzy slippers. For me it's a matter of convenience -- all I have to do is line up my delivery of live orders for a day that I have off, or arrange to pick it up myself from Fed Ex -- something that one of the online dealers I've been dealing with actually suggested as an option. I'm not picking up my plant order -- too huge -- but when I start stocking the tank w/ fish, I may consider seeing about picking them up myself. It's probably no less traumatic for the little guys, but it'll make me feel better. :) ~Helen --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25546	From: John Hawley	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: University of Minnesota KHV Testing & Carp Control Research

A koi hobbyist recently pointed out at Koishack online forum that the University of Minnesota, ", will soon be bringing online, through their vet testing lab, tests for KHV and bacterial sensitivity testing. Will be nice having a testing facility located locally. As soon as I have more details, I'll update this thread. Actually they are taking test samples now, but their online form hasn't be modified with clear details on the specific testing and how to submit samples. That will be forthcoming very soon. The Univ is nationally known for their work on many animals including equine, but now are branching out into fisheries. The head of the dept happens to be Koi Kichi which only helps the cause." Who knows if the poster was referring to the head of UM's Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory Dr. James Collins, an expert on swine, but another scientist at UM Dr. Peter Sorenson (http://fwcb.cfans.umn.edu/personnel/faculty/sorensen.php) has taken a strong interest in carp control using pheromones. Sorenson is also working with Australia's CSIRO that is considering using KHV as a carp control measure. As this University begins testing for KHV it will be interesting to see what parsing of information and conclusions Sorenson might make relative to KHV as a biologic control in association with his network of associates such as Dr Mark Crane who is leading the charge to release KHV into the natural environment at CSIRO in Australia. www.KoiCluboftheAir.org

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25547	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

sorry about that, it is saltwaterfish.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 9:26:44 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... Yeah, it looks like Saltwater.com is just a parked domain name for now. Maybe they meant http://www.Saltwaterfish.com which does sell fish, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of o1bigtenor Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: fish stores.... On Jan 26, 2008 4:37 PM, marsha wilburn <alien8mipussy@... <mailto:alien8mipussy%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > I buy my fish at saltwater.com, processing fee is cheap, they have > weekly deals, and have a frequent order program Not sure but when I went to the site it is a link page and there seems to be absolutely NOTHING about fish on it! D [ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25548	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking

Hi Sheri, As for your 60 gallon tall tank, since you state "It WILL BE a freshwater, or brackish water" aquarium, by this I must presume that it does not yet stock Angels or Discus which you mention. It's most probable that the "black inkfin cichlids" you have coming are in fact Altolamprologus calvus Inkfin (a Tanganyika Cichlid) as Donna proposes. This would preclude the tank from being a brackish water set up in the sense that we recognize as being that type of environment. These expected fish also preclude having Angels or Discus in this same tank since their requirements are different. I am a bit astounded though, that before ordering these fish that unless I'm misunderstanding you, you have not taken the time to reference the type of environment these fish require, or the types of compatable tankmates for them, but then that's what we're here for (or are you merely looking for suggestions other than what you already have in mind, and knowing this will be a high pH freshwater tank?). For Lake Tanganyika fish, a PH of at least 8.2 (up to pH 9.0) should be maintained, depending on the other tankmates. Tanganyika and/or Malawi salts can be added to the water. A substrate of crushed coral should be used to help maintain the required parameters.. Additionally, and while this may be controversial, I'd recommend the addition of marine salt mix which will help elevate the pH as well as add some carbonate hardness, increase the TDS (total dissolved solids) and introduce some trace elements to the water, all beneficial for these types of fish. Recommended amounts of marine salts to be used in Rift Lake aquariums vary considerably, from 1 tsp per 10 or 11 gallons to 2 tsp per gallon, with some aquarists going with 1 Tbs per 10 gallons. Although the actual amount to be used (if you so choose to do) will also depend on whether you're already using one of the commercial "Lake salts," surely they will do just fine with the addition of 1 Tbs per 5 gallons (2/3 tsp per gallon). As for stocking recommendations, this partially depends on the dimensions of the tank, as Donna asks, although it's clear that its tall rather than long. While regular 60 gallon tanks may be 48" x 15" x 18" high, the only Tall 60 that I'm aware of is the 60 gallon Hex (27" x 24" x 29" high, besides a 65 gallon Tall (36" x 18" x 25" high). With stocking such a tank, different strata must be kept in mind to best take advantage of its shape, while keeping in mind its footprint does not allow for much substrate area (read, territory), nor surface area when figuring fish capacity. For starters, I'd recommend a good portion (at least 1/3) of the tank bottom having piled rockwork where the A. calvus Inkfins will hang out, with the rest of the bottom being the plain exposed crushed coral (or a mix of that and sand), without rocks. For tankmates, although this tall type of tank does not allow for a lot of longitudinal swimming space, I could recommend some Blue Flash Cichlids (Cyprochromis leptosoma) which will swim mid tank in open water. These can be augmented with either Malawi Peacocks (Aulonocara) or Blue Dolphins (Cyrtocara moorii) also coming from that lake and preferring the sandy portion. None of these Cichlids are necessarily aggressive, but would dictate a mutual compromise of the pH level to 8.4ish, in which all species will thrive. At a year old, your Oscar is not yet full grown yet. His 55 gallon tank is not much larger that he will require by himself when full grown (he can get to an average size of 14"). At this point, I would not add another Oscar to his tank, but you might consider one of the more ornamental Plecos (which also don't get as large as the common species). That will max it out when he attains full size, at which point you'll need to be diligent with your water changes, unless you want to graduate him to a 75 or 90. Some of those very different and attractive Plecos can go for some big bucks though, but they make a nice addition. Best of luck, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What is the length and width of the tank? When you say inkfin cichlids, do > you mean Altolamprologus Calvus Inkfin? If so I have some suggestions on > that tank. > > > > No suggestions on the oscar though, maybe Ray will chime in. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of sheriartist57 > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help with 60 gal tall,stocking > > > > Does anyone have some suggestions for stocking a 60 gallon > tall,besides angels and discus.I have some black inkfin cichlids > coming,they are still too small,would they work? It will be a > freshwater,or brackish,but I am not sure what to put in different > water levels. > And is there anything I can add to a tank with a spoiled oscar who is > 10",about a year old? Fortunately my pleco is longer than he is,but I > wish I could add something he wouldn't eat.He is in a 55 withgreat > filtration. > Thanks,Sheri > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25549	From: Anndrea	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: New to group, new to aquariums (long post, sorry)

Ok, here goes...my uncle gave my mom his hexagon aquarium to my mom months ago (empty, drained, dry, dirty, with supplies like filter, air pump, heater etc.). She never set it up, and when I moved down here, she said I could set it up. I had fish as a kid (a goldfish from a school carnival that lasted about five years and ate my neon tetras and fought with my pleco), like a ten gallon tank, I think it was. I think this hex is 10 gallons, also. Anyway, I set it all up Thursday night. Gravel, water, filter, heater, and air hose/pump. A fake plant, and a little fake mountain thing (which I plugged the air hose into so bubbles would occasionally come out the top of it). I waited until Saturday afternoon to go to Walmart for fish (thinking the tank was ready) and the guy there got me to buy something that has beneficial bacteria in it, told me to squirt it in there, and wait a day or two before coming back to get any fish. I was pretty disappointed, as I had thought I would be brining home a fish. He said I could get a female betta and put her in there right away because they are "hardy" (or is it "hearty"?) fish and she would survive. He said a female won't attack the other kinds of fish I want to put in there (a couple glass/ghost catfish, possibly neon or cardinal tetras, cherry barbs, and eventually an algae eater). So, I felt better having been able to bring home a fish. So...here I am the next day (Sunday), wondering if things are going ok for the betta in there. I tried to feed her flake food last night, and she seemed to not want anything to do with it. I tried a pellet food today, and she kept picking it up and spitting it out. Is she eating anything? She is not lethargic, quite the opposite, very active. And oh so pretty red :-) I want to know: 1. if that is the normal way fish eat or if she is going to starve if I don't do something? 2. does anyone know of a bright blue fish I could have in there with the plans of the other fish (or to replace the tetras, I am not set on those)? 3. what kind of food should I be getting (like flake, pellet, etc.) for the kinds of fish I want to have? and any other info anyone can help me with would be greatly appreciated. I did learn you can't mix tropicals and goldfish, so no worried, there. I don't want any goldfish this time around :-) Thanks! (sorry it was so long) anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25550	From: William	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking

I would not put anything else in with the two fish that you already have because the oscar can get to be over 15 inches long and the pleco (if it is a regular pleco) can get to be upwards of 24 inches long in the right conditions and don't you wish to have great conditions for your fish? If yo put anything else in the tank the oscar might kill it right off or if not then the bioload will become a lot more than it should be. If you really wish to put something else in with those two fish then be prepared to do daily 25 to 50% water changes to get rid of the waste products of all the fish involved or the fish may (probably will) become stunted and stunting will stress fish and leave them less resistant to diseases. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sheriartist57" <sheriartist57@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have some suggestions for stocking a 60 gallon > tall,besides angels and discus.I have some black inkfin cichlids > coming,they are still too small,would they work? It will be a > freshwater,or brackish,but I am not sure what to put in different > water levels. > And is there anything I can add to a tank with a spoiled oscar who is > 10",about a year old? Fortunately my pleco is longer than he is,but I > wish I could add something he wouldn't eat.He is in a 55 withgreat > filtration. > Thanks,Sheri >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25551	From: William	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: New to group, new to aquariums (long post, sorry)

Make sure that the heater works well so that you can maintain the temp at 76 to 78. If it is lower then the tropical fish will be too chilled and may not fell like eating. You really do not have much room to put man;y fish in a ten gallon hex tank, most fish do better in a low and long tank so that they have more swimming room horizontal instead of vertically. I am sure that other people will chime in and tell you that yo can put lots of fish in that tank. I have only been in this hobby for 55 years and made my mistakes. I am only trying to help people from making the same mistakes that i have made in the past. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Anndrea" <anndreae@...> wrote: > > Ok, here goes...my uncle gave my mom his hexagon aquarium to my mom > months ago (empty, drained, dry, dirty, with supplies like filter, > air pump, heater etc.). She never set it up, and when I moved down > here, she said I could set it up. I had fish as a kid (a goldfish > from a school carnival that lasted about five years and ate my neon > tetras and fought with my pleco), like a ten gallon tank, I think it > was. I think this hex is 10 gallons, also. > > Anyway, I set it all up Thursday night. Gravel, water, filter, > heater, and air hose/pump. A fake plant, and a little fake mountain > thing (which I plugged the air hose into so bubbles would > occasionally come out the top of it). I waited until Saturday > afternoon to go to Walmart for fish (thinking the tank was ready) > and the guy there got me to buy something that has beneficial > bacteria in it, told me to squirt it in there, and wait a day or two > before coming back to get any fish. I was pretty disappointed, as I > had thought I would be brining home a fish. He said I could get a > female betta and put her in there right away because they > are "hardy" (or is it "hearty"?) fish and she would survive. He said > a female won't attack the other kinds of fish I want to put in there > (a couple glass/ghost catfish, possibly neon or cardinal tetras, > cherry barbs, and eventually an algae eater). So, I felt better > having been able to bring home a fish. > > So...here I am the next day (Sunday), wondering if things are going > ok for the betta in there. I tried to feed her flake food last > night, and she seemed to not want anything to do with it. I tried a > pellet food today, and she kept picking it up and spitting it out. > Is she eating anything? She is not lethargic, quite the opposite, > very active. And oh so pretty red :-) > > I want to know: > 1. if that is the normal way fish eat or if she is going to starve > if I don't do something? > > 2. does anyone know of a bright blue fish I could have in there with > the plans of the other fish (or to replace the tetras, I am not set > on those)? > > 3. what kind of food should I be getting (like flake, pellet, etc.) > for the kinds of fish I want to have? > > and any other info anyone can help me with would be greatly > appreciated. > > I did learn you can't mix tropicals and goldfish, so no worried, > there. I don't want any goldfish this time around :-) > > Thanks! > (sorry it was so long) > anndrea >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25552	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking

Thanks for your advice,ray and Donna and everyone else. I have done some extensive research on both internet and books.I am simply not familiar with alot of the cyclids,as I have only been adding to my fish mania with less aggresive freshwater tropicals.I started again with some livebearers,a few koy and goldfish,as we are building a pond this summer,and wanted to get them past the baby stage before I stocked it. My husband wanted an Oscar,who I enjoy thoroghly,and already had a 10" pleco for 7 years,who works very well with the oscar,but too big for any of my smaller fish.I have really gotten into this,have started collecting rainbows as I can acquire them,and have about 6 varieties of platies and guppies.I have also put together my first paludarium and today we did a 55 planted tank.I am home 99% time because of health issues,and we finally have the room in our new house for me to explore this hobby fully.I spend more time in research than the actual hands on,but enjoy it so very much.The only reason I sought this site out was for the help with experienced aquarist.The books can be very informative,although somewhat generic.The only thing I hate is the drama in some of the forums. I guess u missed the part of my message where we had an ice incident because of increment weather,and I lost 2 large tanks one of which was to be the setup for the Altolamprologus calvus Inkfin.I have planned to put the Inkfins in a 55long,but was just looking for ideas for a 60 tall as well. I am very clear what this species is,and they are F1,but most of the info I have found via internet is about wild habitat,which I find fascinating,but not very helpful when it comes to a home aquarium.I am hoping to get it set up soon as not be getting these for another month or so.I want to find something compatable with their environmental needs,as I do hope to have a few out of 20 pair up and raise. I felt it might be best to introduce some of the other cichlids at the same time,to help cut down on aggressive behaviour.I am enthralled by them,but concerned about the aggresion issues.I would like to buy them while still small enough to hopefully pair up these as well. Any advice from anyone is welcome,just please don't tell me my tanks are overstocked.I am working on that as quickly as I am able,and do very consistent water changes and huge filtration.Non of my tanks has any balance problems,except the goldfish and koi,which will have to wait till spring to move those.Our pm outside temp has been in single digits here since Christmas,so there is nothing I can do except keep up with water changes. I only have one angel,never owned discus or African Cichlids before.I have 9 tanks at the present time,and some are species tanks with a few community tanks. I wish we had a local aquatic club in our county,but don't as yet. Please feel free to send me any idea,I have already gained some useful information which led me in the right direction for more research. Thanks,Sheri i--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Sheri, As for your 60 gallon tall tank, since you state "It WILL > BE a freshwater, or brackish water" aquarium, by this I must presume > that it does not yet stock Angels or Discus which you mention. It's > most probable that the "black inkfin cichlids" you have coming are in > fact Altolamprologus calvus Inkfin (a Tanganyika Cichlid) as Donna > proposes. This would preclude the tank from being a brackish water > set up in the sense that we recognize as being that type of > environment. These expected fish also preclude having Angels or > Discus in this same tank since their requirements are different. > > I have researched this***I am a bit astounded though, that before ordering these fish that > unless I'm misunderstanding you, you have not taken the time to > reference the type of environment these fish require, or the types of > compatable tankmates for them, but then that's what we're here for > (or are you merely looking for suggestions other than what you > already have in mind, and knowing this will be a high pH freshwater > tank?). For Lake Tanganyika fish, a PH of at least 8.2 (up to pH > 9.0) should be maintained, depending on the other tankmates. > Tanganyika and/or Malawi salts can be added to the water. A > substrate of crushed coral should be used to help maintain the > required parameters.. > > ***Good info in addition to what I already knew about parameter for this tank***Additionally, and while this may be controversial, I'd recommend the > addition of marine salt mix which will help elevate the pH as well as > add some carbonate hardness, increase the TDS (total dissolved > solids) and introduce some trace elements to the water, all > beneficial for these types of fish. Recommended amounts of marine > salts to be used in Rift Lake aquariums vary considerably, from 1 tsp > per 10 or 11 gallons to 2 tsp per gallon, with some aquarists going > with 1 Tbs per 10 gallons. Although the actual amount to be used (if > you so choose to do) will also depend on whether you're already using > one of the commercial "Lake salts," surely they will do just fine > with the addition of 1 Tbs per 5 gallons (2/3 tsp per gallon). > > As for stocking recommendations, this partially depends on the > dimensions of the tank, as Donna asks, although it's clear that its > tall rather than long. While regular 60 gallon tanks may be 48" x > 15" x 18" high, the only Tall 60 that I'm aware of is the 60 gallon > Hex (27" x 24" x 29" high, besides a 65 gallon Tall (36" x 18" x 25" > high). With stocking such a tank, different strata must be kept in > mind to best take advantage of its shape, while keeping in mind its > footprint does not allow for much substrate area (read, territory), > nor surface area when figuring fish capacity. > > For starters, I'd recommend a good portion (at least 1/3) of the tank > bottom having piled rockwork where the A. calvus Inkfins will hang > out, with the rest of the bottom being the plain exposed crushed > coral (or a mix of that and sand), without rocks. For tankmates, > although this tall type of tank does not allow for a lot of > longitudinal swimming space, I could recommend some Blue Flash > Cichlids (Cyprochromis leptosoma) which will swim mid tank in open > water. These can be augmented with either Malawi Peacocks > (Aulonocara) or Blue Dolphins (Cyrtocara moorii) also coming from > that lake and preferring the sandy portion. None of these Cichlids > are necessarily aggressive, but would dictate a mutual compromise of > the pH level to 8.4ish, in which all species will thrive. > > At a year old, your Oscar is not yet full grown yet. His 55 gallon > tank is not much larger that he will require by himself when full > grown (he can get to an average size of 14"). At this point, I would > not add another Oscar to his tank, but you might consider one of the > more ornamental Plecos (which also don't get as large as the common > species). That will max it out when he attains full size, at which > point you'll need to be diligent with your water changes, unless you > want to graduate him to a 75 or 90. Some of those very different and > attractive Plecos can go for some big bucks though, but they make a > nice addition. Best of luck, Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > wrote: > > > > What is the length and width of the tank? When you say inkfin > cichlids, do > > you mean Altolamprologus Calvus Inkfin? If so I have some > suggestions on > > that tank. > > > > > > > > No suggestions on the oscar though, maybe Ray will chime in. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of sheriartist57 > > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:03 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help with 60 gal tall,stocking > > > > > > > > Does anyone have some suggestions for stocking a 60 gallon > > tall,besides angels and discus.I have some black inkfin cichlids > > coming,they are still too small,would they work? It will be a > > freshwater,or brackish,but I am not sure what to put in different > > water levels. > > And is there anything I can add to a tank with a spoiled oscar who > is > > 10",about a year old? Fortunately my pleco is longer than he is,but > I > > wish I could add something he wouldn't eat.He is in a 55 withgreat > > filtration. > > Thanks,Sheri > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25553	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking

This is only one of 10 aquariums I have,I have had the pleco that is with him over seven,the Oscar 2.His tank is a great balance chemically,and is also a great place to work some sponge filters to work up my new tanks as I acquire them,thanks anyway,sheri--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > I would not put anything else in with the two fish that you already > have because the oscar can get to be over 15 inches long and the > pleco (if it is a regular pleco) can get to be upwards of 24 inches > long in the right conditions and don't you wish to have great > conditions for your fish? If yo put anything else in the tank the > oscar might kill it right off or if not then the bioload will become > a lot more than it should be. If you really wish to put something > else in with those two fish then be prepared to do daily 25 to 50% > water changes to get rid of the waste products of all the fish > involved or the fish may (probably will) become stunted and stunting > will stress fish and leave them less resistant to diseases. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sheriartist57" > <sheriartist57@> wrote: > > > > Does anyone have some suggestions for stocking a 60 gallon > > tall,besides angels and discus.I have some black inkfin cichlids > > coming,they are still too small,would they work? It will be a > > freshwater,or brackish,but I am not sure what to put in different > > water levels. > > And is there anything I can add to a tank with a spoiled oscar who > is > > 10",about a year old? Fortunately my pleco is longer than he is,but > I > > wish I could add something he wouldn't eat.He is in a 55 withgreat > > filtration. > > Thanks,Sheri > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25554	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking

Well your Calvus are very mild-mannered. Except once a pair is formed, another pair is unlikely to be tolerated in the same tank. Sometimes people get lucky and a trio is formed, or maybe even two pair if the tank is large enough. In fact, tankmates must be chosen with care so that the Calvus will not be stressed and be able to compete for food. I do have a different approach than Ray on certain items: I do not add marine salt or anything to my water. My tap is pH 7.8, but consistency is more important than perfection (which would be more like the pH=8+ that Ray mentions). I would also stick with Tanganyikans and not add the Malawi to this tank. I inquired about Peacocks as tankmates for Calvus when designing my own tank, but people who had tried it did not recommend it. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking Thanks for your advice,ray and Donna and everyone else. I have done some extensive research on both internet and books.I am simply not familiar with alot of the cyclids,as I have only been adding to my fish mania with less aggresive freshwater tropicals.I started again with some livebearers,a few koy and goldfish,as we are building a pond this summer,and wanted to get them past the baby stage before I stocked it. My husband wanted an Oscar,who I enjoy thoroghly,and already had a 10" pleco for 7 years,who works very well with the oscar,but too big for any of my smaller fish.I have really gotten into this,have started collecting rainbows as I can acquire them,and have about 6 varieties of platies and guppies.I have also put together my first paludarium and today we did a 55 planted tank.I am home 99% time because of health issues,and we finally have the room in our new house for me to explore this hobby fully.I spend more time in research than the actual hands on,but enjoy it so very much.The only reason I sought this site out was for the help with experienced aquarist.The books can be very informative,although somewhat generic.The only thing I hate is the drama in some of the forums. I guess u missed the part of my message where we had an ice incident because of increment weather,and I lost 2 large tanks one of which was to be the setup for the Altolamprologus calvus Inkfin.I have planned to put the Inkfins in a 55long,but was just looking for ideas for a 60 tall as well. I am very clear what this species is,and they are F1,but most of the info I have found via internet is about wild habitat,which I find fascinating,but not very helpful when it comes to a home aquarium.I am hoping to get it set up soon as not be getting these for another month or so.I want to find something compatable with their environmental needs,as I do hope to have a few out of 20 pair up and raise. I felt it might be best to introduce some of the other cichlids at the same time,to help cut down on aggressive behaviour.I am enthralled by them,but concerned about the aggresion issues.I would like to buy them while still small enough to hopefully pair up these as well. Any advice from anyone is welcome,just please don't tell me my tanks are overstocked.I am working on that as quickly as I am able,and do very consistent water changes and huge filtration.Non of my tanks has any balance problems,except the goldfish and koi,which will have to wait till spring to move those.Our pm outside temp has been in single digits here since Christmas,so there is nothing I can do except keep up with water changes. I only have one angel,never owned discus or African Cichlids before.I have 9 tanks at the present time,and some are species tanks with a few community tanks. I wish we had a local aquatic club in our county,but don't as yet. Please feel free to send me any idea,I have already gained some useful information which led me in the right direction for more research. Thanks,Sheri i--- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Sheri, As for your 60 gallon tall tank, since you state "It WILL > BE a freshwater, or brackish water" aquarium, by this I must presume > that it does not yet stock Angels or Discus which you mention. It's > most probable that the "black inkfin cichlids" you have coming are in > fact Altolamprologus calvus Inkfin (a Tanganyika Cichlid) as Donna > proposes. This would preclude the tank from being a brackish water > set up in the sense that we recognize as being that type of > environment. These expected fish also preclude having Angels or > Discus in this same tank since their requirements are different. > > I have researched this***I am a bit astounded though, that before ordering these fish that > unless I'm misunderstanding you, you have not taken the time to > reference the type of environment these fish require, or the types of > compatable tankmates for them, but then that's what we're here for > (or are you merely looking for suggestions other than what you > already have in mind, and knowing this will be a high pH freshwater > tank?). For Lake Tanganyika fish, a PH of at least 8.2 (up to pH > 9.0) should be maintained, depending on the other tankmates. > Tanganyika and/or Malawi salts can be added to the water. A > substrate of crushed coral should be used to help maintain the > required parameters.. > > ***Good info in addition to what I already knew about parameter for this tank***Additionally, and while this may be controversial, I'd recommend the > addition of marine salt mix which will help elevate the pH as well as > add some carbonate hardness, increase the TDS (total dissolved > solids) and introduce some trace elements to the water, all > beneficial for these types of fish. Recommended amounts of marine > salts to be used in Rift Lake aquariums vary considerably, from 1 tsp > per 10 or 11 gallons to 2 tsp per gallon, with some aquarists going > with 1 Tbs per 10 gallons. Although the actual amount to be used (if > you so choose to do) will also depend on whether you're already using > one of the commercial "Lake salts," surely they will do just fine > with the addition of 1 Tbs per 5 gallons (2/3 tsp per gallon). > > As for stocking recommendations, this partially depends on the > dimensions of the tank, as Donna asks, although it's clear that its > tall rather than long. While regular 60 gallon tanks may be 48" x > 15" x 18" high, the only Tall 60 that I'm aware of is the 60 gallon > Hex (27" x 24" x 29" high, besides a 65 gallon Tall (36" x 18" x 25" > high). With stocking such a tank, different strata must be kept in > mind to best take advantage of its shape, while keeping in mind its > footprint does not allow for much substrate area (read, territory), > nor surface area when figuring fish capacity. > > For starters, I'd recommend a good portion (at least 1/3) of the tank > bottom having piled rockwork where the A. calvus Inkfins will hang > out, with the rest of the bottom being the plain exposed crushed > coral (or a mix of that and sand), without rocks. For tankmates, > although this tall type of tank does not allow for a lot of > longitudinal swimming space, I could recommend some Blue Flash > Cichlids (Cyprochromis leptosoma) which will swim mid tank in open > water. These can be augmented with either Malawi Peacocks > (Aulonocara) or Blue Dolphins (Cyrtocara moorii) also coming from > that lake and preferring the sandy portion. None of these Cichlids > are necessarily aggressive, but would dictate a mutual compromise of > the pH level to 8.4ish, in which all species will thrive. > > At a year old, your Oscar is not yet full grown yet. His 55 gallon > tank is not much larger that he will require by himself when full > grown (he can get to an average size of 14"). At this point, I would > not add another Oscar to his tank, but you might consider one of the > more ornamental Plecos (which also don't get as large as the common > species). That will max it out when he attains full size, at which > point you'll need to be diligent with your water changes, unless you > want to graduate him to a 75 or 90. Some of those very different and > attractive Plecos can go for some big bucks though, but they make a > nice addition. Best of luck, Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > wrote: > > > > What is the length and width of the tank? When you say inkfin > cichlids, do > > you mean Altolamprologus Calvus Inkfin? If so I have some > suggestions on > > that tank. > > > > > > > > No suggestions on the oscar though, maybe Ray will chime in. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of sheriartist57 > > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:03 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help with 60 gal tall,stocking > > > > > > > > Does anyone have some suggestions for stocking a 60 gallon > > tall,besides angels and discus.I have some black inkfin cichlids > > coming,they are still too small,would they work? It will be a > > freshwater,or brackish,but I am not sure what to put in different > > water levels. > > And is there anything I can add to a tank with a spoiled oscar who > is > > 10",about a year old? Fortunately my pleco is longer than he is,but > I > > wish I could add something he wouldn't eat.He is in a 55 withgreat > > filtration. > > Thanks,Sheri > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25555	From: Anndrea S	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: New to group, new to aquariums (long post, sorry)

Oh, I appreciate your input! You have been doing this a long time! The fish I want to put in...there may be several varieties I listed, but I only want small numbers of them...like 3 neon tetras, 1 algae eater, 2 glass cats...and being the cats and the algae eater are bottom swimmers and most the rest are mid to upper level swimmers (so I have been told) I think I will be ok with a few of these a few of those...I will probably decide on less fish long before I get too many...I want them to be happy and have room :-) I will be very careful...I promise :-) thanks, anndrea William <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: Make sure that the heater works well so that you can maintain the temp at 76 to 78. If it is lower then the tropical fish will be too chilled and may not fell like eating. You really do not have much room to put man;y fish in a ten gallon hex tank, most fish do better in a low and long tank so that they have more swimming room horizontal instead of vertically. I am sure that other people will chime in and tell you that yo can put lots of fish in that tank. I have only been in this hobby for 55 years and made my mistakes. I am only trying to help people from making the same mistakes that i have made in the past. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Anndrea" <anndreae@...> wrote: > > Ok, here goes...my uncle gave my mom his hexagon aquarium to my mom > months ago (empty, drained, dry, dirty, with supplies like filter, > air pump, heater etc.). She never set it up, and when I moved down > here, she said I could set it up. I had fish as a kid (a goldfish > from a school carnival that lasted about five years and ate my neon > tetras and fought with my pleco), like a ten gallon tank, I think it > was. I think this hex is 10 gallons, also. > > Anyway, I set it all up Thursday night. Gravel, water, filter, > heater, and air hose/pump. A fake plant, and a little fake mountain > thing (which I plugged the air hose into so bubbles would > occasionally come out the top of it). I waited until Saturday > afternoon to go to Walmart for fish (thinking the tank was ready) > and the guy there got me to buy something that has beneficial > bacteria in it, told me to squirt it in there, and wait a day or two > before coming back to get any fish. I was pretty disappointed, as I > had thought I would be brining home a fish. He said I could get a > female betta and put her in there right away because they > are "hardy" (or is it "hearty"?) fish and she would survive. He said > a female won't attack the other kinds of fish I want to put in there > (a couple glass/ghost catfish, possibly neon or cardinal tetras, > cherry barbs, and eventually an algae eater). So, I felt better > having been able to bring home a fish. > > So...here I am the next day (Sunday), wondering if things are going > ok for the betta in there. I tried to feed her flake food last > night, and she seemed to not want anything to do with it. I tried a > pellet food today, and she kept picking it up and spitting it out. > Is she eating anything? She is not lethargic, quite the opposite, > very active. And oh so pretty red :-) > > I want to know: > 1. if that is the normal way fish eat or if she is going to starve > if I don't do something? > > 2. does anyone know of a bright blue fish I could have in there with > the plans of the other fish (or to replace the tetras, I am not set > on those)? > > 3. what kind of food should I be getting (like flake, pellet, etc.) > for the kinds of fish I want to have? > > and any other info anyone can help me with would be greatly > appreciated. > > I did learn you can't mix tropicals and goldfish, so no worried, > there. I don't want any goldfish this time around :-) > > Thanks! > (sorry it was so long) > anndrea > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25556	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking

Understanding the concern for the bioload here, I still stand by adding a smaller ornamental Pleco in lieu of the common Pleco (which, as pointed out can get upwards of 24"), when I stated that the ornamenal Pleco doesn't get as large as the common species (Pleco) -- my reason for pointing that out. In doing this, there would of course be even less of a bioload than keeping the two present fish, both of which will get large. I had hoped replacing one with the other would have been common sense when I mentioned that, trying to avoid going into writing a short story. I did mention the need to be more diligent with water changing as the fish grew (even suggesting upgrading to a larger tank). I would not put anything else in with the two present fish, but would encourage an exchange of the larger catfish for the smaller, especially as something different is being considered. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > I would not put anything else in with the two fish that you already > have because the oscar can get to be over 15 inches long and the > pleco (if it is a regular pleco) can get to be upwards of 24 inches > long in the right conditions and don't you wish to have great > conditions for your fish? If yo put anything else in the tank the > oscar might kill it right off or if not then the bioload will become > a lot more than it should be. If you really wish to put something > else in with those two fish then be prepared to do daily 25 to 50% > water changes to get rid of the waste products of all the fish > involved or the fish may (probably will) become stunted and stunting > will stress fish and leave them less resistant to diseases. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sheriartist57" > <sheriartist57@> wrote: > > > > Does anyone have some suggestions for stocking a 60 gallon > > tall,besides angels and discus.I have some black inkfin cichlids > > coming,they are still too small,would they work? It will be a > > freshwater,or brackish,but I am not sure what to put in different > > water levels. > > And is there anything I can add to a tank with a spoiled oscar who > is > > 10",about a year old? Fortunately my pleco is longer than he is,but > I > > wish I could add something he wouldn't eat.He is in a 55 withgreat > > filtration. > > Thanks,Sheri > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25557	From: clubsprint	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Newbie community question

Hi all I've got 2 questions I'm hoping someone can help with. My tank has slowly depleted down to two very hardy Danios. The tank is about 32 litres and has an undergravel filter and a couple of broad leaf plats (not sure what they are). Is there any other breeds I can mix with the Danios? We're looking at the getting another tank (30 to 50 litre) so I can have some Cardinal or Neon Tetras (I love their colours) Which are the hardiest and what sort of plants should I get to make them happy? I was thinking an external filter for this tank as I havwe a bit of trouble with algae buildup in the other tank. Thanks in advance Mark Aus

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25558	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: Re: New to group, new to aquariums (long post, sorry)

Hi Anndrea and welcome to AquaticLife Group. You'll learn a lot more out here than you ever thought there was to know about fish keeping. Two things I would suggest is going to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and reading over the article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" (link on the right side of my blog) and that will give you an idea of many other fish to choose from in stocking your new/used tank. You won't see goldfish on that list since they really need a much larger tank. Also, a common pleco which is often referred to as an algae eater gets far too large for a 10G tank also so get that thought out of your head but there are some smaller algae eating catfish listed in the article. That bacteria stuff that the Wal-Mart employee sold you will likely not do anything to help your tank "cycle" (The Nitrogen Cycle). The only product that I know of that will cycle a tank instantly is Bio-Spira and it's available online and at select fish stores since it must be kept refrigerated. It's best NOT to cycle a tank with fish since the cycling process is hard on the fish and can kill them or permanently injure them but since you now have a fish in there, it's important to test your ammonia/nitrite on a daily basis and do PWC's (25% partial water changes) to keep the levels below 0.5ppm. Also on my blog, you will see my article "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and if you read over it, you will see much of this information covered. At the top of that article, there are links to two online tutorials that you should take which will walk you through all phases of keeping fish. You should have tons of questions so come back here and ask away. I'm glad your post was long so that my long answers don't appear as bad. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to group, new to aquariums (long post, sorry) Ok, here goes...my uncle gave my mom his hexagon aquarium to my mom months ago (empty, drained, dry, dirty, with supplies like filter, air pump, heater etc.). She never set it up, and when I moved down here, she said I could set it up. I had fish as a kid (a goldfish from a school carnival that lasted about five years and ate my neon tetras and fought with my pleco), like a ten gallon tank, I think it was. I think this hex is 10 gallons, also. Anyway, I set it all up Thursday night. Gravel, water, filter, heater, and air hose/pump. A fake plant, and a little fake mountain thing (which I plugged the air hose into so bubbles would occasionally come out the top of it). I waited until Saturday afternoon to go to Walmart for fish (thinking the tank was ready) and the guy there got me to buy something that has beneficial bacteria in it, told me to squirt it in there, and wait a day or two before coming back to get any fish. I was pretty disappointed, as I had thought I would be brining home a fish. He said I could get a female betta and put her in there right away because they are "hardy" (or is it "hearty"?) fish and she would survive. He said a female won't attack the other kinds of fish I want to put in there (a couple glass/ghost catfish, possibly neon or cardinal tetras, cherry barbs, and eventually an algae eater). So, I felt better having been able to bring home a fish. So...here I am the next day (Sunday), wondering if things are going ok for the betta in there. I tried to feed her flake food last night, and she seemed to not want anything to do with it. I tried a pellet food today, and she kept picking it up and spitting it out. Is she eating anything? She is not lethargic, quite the opposite, very active. And oh so pretty red :-) I want to know: 1. if that is the normal way fish eat or if she is going to starve if I don't do something? 2. does anyone know of a bright blue fish I could have in there with the plans of the other fish (or to replace the tetras, I am not set on those)? 3. what kind of food should I be getting (like flake, pellet, etc.) for the kinds of fish I want to have? and any other info anyone can help me with would be greatly appreciated. I did learn you can't mix tropicals and goldfish, so no worried, there. I don't want any goldfish this time around :-) Thanks! (sorry it was so long) anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.12/1245 - Release Date: 1/26/2008 3:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25559	From: Blue fish	Date: 1/27/2008
Subject: View latest videos of Marine animals

Videos of Blue water Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C43435754444A425A445146445A515F4E ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C43435754444A425A445146445A515F4E Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C43435754444A425A445146445A515F4A Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25560	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: fish stores....

Thanks for the link! WOW! did a quick look at it and can say I was impressed to the deication to safely selling fish. Looked at a Majestic Anglefish listing where they will put the order on hold if you order more than one! Thumbs Up! Thanks for sharing! From me, Randy Coming Soon - a Vortex Community - become a Charter Member - Free http://www.webwholesaler.com/NewCommunity.html --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, marsha wilburn <alien8mipussy@...> wrote: > > sorry about that, it is saltwaterfish.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25561	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Sorry,65 gal.Tall,new,stocking suggestions

Thanks,Ray,I had the folks I am buying this from to measure it,and u were right on target.Sheri 65 Tall,36x18x25 New,will possibly be planted. Thanks,Sheri

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25562	From: rn_ple	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: another introduction....newbie...

Hi everyone.... I'm a person who has fallen in love with Oscars. We have one at work. (i might even end up with him) He is an absolute character! Let me hold off talking about that fish in fear of being named: Dances with Fish. One big question I have is: Are Oscars or the Original Oscar actually more personable and intelligent than other Cichlids? The reason I ask is I would rather keep size down some. But personality is what it's all about to me. Would be nice to have something smaller and prettier like a couple yellow labs. But again...the personality is supreme. I'd like to keep my tank or tanks down to 50 gallon. But gee... if I had that Oscar at work. I'd have to give him at least a 75 gallon tank. Ron

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25563	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: another introduction....newbie...

I've never owned an Oscar but from all I've read, they are much more personable than most other fish. Goldfish are the same way. Of course it could just be that both of those species are BIG fish and always hungry so they just act like they are happy to see us when they are really just begging for food. LOL And you are right about the tank size... they need BIG tanks and lots of filtration! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rn_ple Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] another introduction....newbie... Hi everyone.... I'm a person who has fallen in love with Oscars. We have one at work. (i might even end up with him) He is an absolute character! Let me hold off talking about that fish in fear of being named: Dances with Fish. One big question I have is: Are Oscars or the Original Oscar actually more personable and intelligent than other Cichlids? The reason I ask is I would rather keep size down some. But personality is what it's all about to me. Would be nice to have something smaller and prettier like a couple yellow labs. But again...the personality is supreme. I'd like to keep my tank or tanks down to 50 gallon. But gee... if I had that Oscar at work. I'd have to give him at least a 75 gallon tank. Ron No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: 1/27/2008 6:39 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25564	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: another introduction....newbie...

Welp, I personally haven't had one, but my mom did a while back. She used to tell me how her oscar would play with ping pong balls and would eat out of your hand. She would give it the occasional hot dog as a treat among other things. From what she said and what I've read, they do need a big tank with good filtration. She compare's his pooping to my pleco (adult, 18"). She got out of fish keeping when she had to give him up. She even now refers to Oscars as "water dogs" -Steve _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rn_ple Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 11:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] another introduction....newbie... Hi everyone.... I'm a person who has fallen in love with Oscars. We have one at work. (i might even end up with him) He is an absolute character! Let me hold off talking about that fish in fear of being named: Dances with Fish. One big question I have is: Are Oscars or the Original Oscar actually more personable and intelligent than other Cichlids? The reason I ask is I would rather keep size down some. But personality is what it's all about to me. Would be nice to have something smaller and prettier like a couple yellow labs. But again...the personality is supreme. I'd like to keep my tank or tanks down to 50 gallon. But gee... if I had that Oscar at work. I'd have to give him at least a 75 gallon tank. Ron [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25565	From: ED	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Newbie

Let's see 55gal,29gal,2-10gal and a 2.5gal. All freshwater. The 55 we are tring to get our angels to breed.*prays "out of 6 atleast 1 has to be diff sex"* Our newest member is a black ghost knife omgod such a cool fish -eating out of our hands in 1-wk(aprox 6.5" long). We do believe in live plants as close to natural as possable. Of course the BGK and the angels come from the Amazon river. Swears I will never own another fancy guppy(toooo much inbreeding) accept to feed to other fish. Nothing like the ones I had when I was younger. The 2-tens are empty right now.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25566	From: William	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: another introduction....newbie...

There are a lot of cichlids that have "personalities". A lot of longer lived species of fish (and other animals) have the capacity to learn and so can interact with their owners or care givers. Even angelfish can interact with the caregiver, and angelfish are cichlids. I say do a little research as to what kinds of fish that yo like that have a lifespan of 10 or more years and you should have a fish that will learn to interact with you. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "The Dragon Hunter" <dragon.hunter@...> wrote: > > Welp, I personally haven't had one, but my mom did a while back. She used > to tell me how her oscar would play with ping pong balls and would eat out > of your hand. She would give it the occasional hot dog as a treat among > other things. > > > > From what she said and what I've read, they do need a big tank with good > filtration. She compare's his pooping to my pleco (adult, 18"). She got > out of fish keeping when she had to give him up. She even now refers to > Oscars as "water dogs" > > > > -Steve > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of rn_ple > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 11:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] another introduction....newbie... > > > > Hi everyone.... > I'm a person who has fallen in love with Oscars. We have one at work. > (i might even end up with him) He is an absolute character! Let me hold > off talking about that fish in fear of being named: Dances with Fish. > > One big question I have is: Are Oscars or the Original Oscar actually > more personable and intelligent than other Cichlids? > > The reason I ask is I would rather keep size down some. But personality > is what it's all about to me. Would be nice to have something smaller > and prettier like a couple yellow labs. But again...the personality is > supreme. > > I'd like to keep my tank or tanks down to 50 gallon. But gee... if I > had that Oscar at work. I'd have to give him at least a 75 gallon tank. > > Ron > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25567	From: Kate	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Tetras and other little guys

Hey all, So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd like to profess their love for? Thanks! Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25568	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

I'm not sure if there is a "list" of tetras but I do have that 10G stocking list article on my blog which has lots of tetras listed... at least the ones suitable for smaller tanks. Many other tetras get much larger so they wouldn't be suitable. This page on Wikipedia does have a lot of tetras listed in alphabetical order but at least grouped into tetras. Scroll down past the catfish sections to the Characin and other characiformes and you will see many of the tetras listed. The page also has proposed sizes, etc., and the sizes at least appear to be close. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freshwater_aquarium_fish_species Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Hey all, So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd like to profess their love for? Thanks! Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: 1/27/2008 6:39 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25569	From: Angel Phillips	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Help!

I need help on my 10 gl aquarium. I need to know if my tank is overstocked. I got an angelfish, two danios, and a flying fox. Does anyone know?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25570	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

This Wikipedia page has them listed also but without any additional information without clicking each fish link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetra Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Hey all, So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd like to profess their love for? Thanks! Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: 1/27/2008 6:39 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25571	From: Angel Phillips	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Help!

I have a 10 gallon tank and I was wondering if I have it overstocked. The fish I have in it is 2 danios, a flying fox, and an angelfish? I was just wondering if anyone would help me on this. I'm a beginner of this hobby. I've had bettas in the past.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25572	From: Angel Phillips	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Help!

I forgot a Fish in my 10 gallon tank there is a fancytail guppy in there also.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Help!

Hi Angel, Yep... to all of the below.. although the danio's, if zebra danio's could do OK in a 10G tank but since they are such big swimmers and need to be in schools, it gets kind of cramped even for them in a 10G. Go to my blog and on the right side, you will see a link to a 10G stocking list article which will give you a better idea of suitable fish for your tank. The flying fox should grow to 6" and needs at least 35G. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Epalzeorhynchus_kallopterus.html Same for the Angelfish. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm (scroll 1/2 way down for Angelfish) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angel Phillips Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help! I need help on my 10 gl aquarium. I need to know if my tank is overstocked. I got an angelfish, two danios, and a flying fox. Does anyone know? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: 1/27/2008 6:39 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25574	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Help!

Angel, It all depends on the size of these fish. I don't use small tanks like the 10 or even a 20 now days. I like to let them swim around more like they originally would be able to. The other part of missing data is what type of filtering do you have hooked up? If too small a filter, the job of keeping the tank clean will be more a headache than a hobby. I use Fluval larger ones like 403's and all my tanks (55Gal) have two filters on them. there should be good surface agitation by way of a spray tube for the return of the filter. This makes for very good oxygenation. Tanks and stands are pretty cheap so those would allow you more fish due to the larger environment. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Angel Phillips wrote: > > I forgot a Fish in my 10 gallon tank there is a fancytail guppy in > there also. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25575	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

Thanks Lenny. That did have a couple I haven't seen in my searches. There's one I ran into a while ago. It had color similar to an Emperor but more blue and black. It was small and had a very blunt face. Does that sound familiar to anyone? Kate "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I'm not sure if there is a "list" of tetras but I do have that 10G stocking list article on my blog which has lots of tetras listed... at least the ones suitable for smaller tanks. Many other tetras get much larger so they wouldn't be suitable. This page on Wikipedia does have a lot of tetras listed in alphabetical order but at least grouped into tetras. Scroll down past the catfish sections to the Characin and other characiformes and you will see many of the tetras listed. The page also has proposed sizes, etc., and the sizes at least appear to be close. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freshwater_aquarium_fish_species Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Hey all, So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd like to profess their love for? Thanks! Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: 1/27/2008 6:39 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25576	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

Ooooo, that one had some really neat ones. I really liked the Exodon Paradoxus and Poecilocharax weitzmani. I got about half through the list and my eyes need a break from the computer. Thank you again!!! Kate "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: This Wikipedia page has them listed also but without any additional information without clicking each fish link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetra Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Hey all, So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd like to profess their love for? Thanks! Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: 1/27/2008 6:39 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25577	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

Have you thought of any kind of killie? They pack a lot of color into a small fish. I see Aquabid has a bunch listed for sale. I'd probably skip over those who try to give them a common name, and only look at those listed with a scientific name, since true killie keepers don not normally use common names except for a very few varieties/species. You might want to invest in a book like the Baensch _Aquarium Atlas Volume 1_ to help you learn more about differ families, genera, and species of fish kept in aquaria. The fish section (most of the book) has the fish grouped, generally 2 species to a page, along with a description of the fish, its behavior, and its needs. When you see something you might like, you can do further research on the web, and/or ask here for even more information. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Hey all, So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd like to profess their love for? Thanks! Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25578	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

You'll find that _Exodon paradoxus_ is an aggressive fish, and probably would not do well in a small tank. I can't speak for _ Poecilocharax weitzmani_, but Stan Weitman, is a nice guy. Maybe the fish is also <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Ooooo, that one had some really neat ones. I really liked the Exodon Paradoxus and Poecilocharax weitzmani. I got about half through the list and my eyes need a break from the computer. Thank you again!!! Kate "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: This Wikipedia page has them listed also but without any additional information without clicking each fish link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetra Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Hey all, So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd like to profess their love for? Thanks! Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25579	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

And if you type too many latin names, you'll get carpal tunnel syndrome to go with your blood shot eyes. LOL If you run out of tetras on those two lists, you can always go to Fishbase.org and under "Information by Family", use the first drop down menu and choose "Characidae" and put a bullet in "All Fishes" and you'll get a list of over 1,100 fishes... not all of which are tetras but on the right side, you'll see some common names and if you scroll through, you'll see many are tetras but I suspect that the Wiki article was derived from the fishbase list and they only listed the ones with common names (around 150) that included "tetra" but there are many, many more without common names listed. Remember that you are limited to tetras that stay under 2" as full grown adults, so that you can keep a school in a 10G since most are schooling fish. BTW.. I never answered your question about which tetras I liked. I'll confess that I've only owned one type and that was some Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that I adopted/saved BK, from a 10G tank along with their tank mates, a school of zebra danios, two blue gouramies and a common pleco... boy was that tank overstocked! I had to separated that 10G tank into over 100G worth of tanks and even then my 65G wasn't big enough for the common pleco and I had to rehome him last year since I wasn't able to get the bigger tanks I wanted AK. Down here in N'Awlins, we date a lot of things BK and AK... Before Katrina and After Katrina... :-P Me and all of my tanks made it through Katrina... no power for 14 days and no drinkable running water for five weeks... but I did lose my two golden mystery snails a week after I did my first PWC AK. My water utility swears they were doing nothing different to the water but something caused both of my snails to go kaput right after that PWC... but it could have just been that they starved to death during the five weeks that I was limiting the feeding of all of the fish since I couldn't do PWC's. Lenny V. 504-621-1870 Pics/Info/IM - http://profiles.yahoo.com/LoverLennyV -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Ooooo, that one had some really neat ones. I really liked the Exodon Paradoxus and Poecilocharax weitzmani. I got about half through the list and my eyes need a break from the computer. Thank you again!!! Kate "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: This Wikipedia page has them listed also but without any additional information without clicking each fish link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetra <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetra> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Hey all, So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd like to profess their love for? Thanks! Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: 1/27/2008 6:39 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25580	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry,65 gal.Tall,new,stocking suggestions

Is this for the Calvus we talked about, or are they still going in a 48” long tank? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sorry,65 gal.Tall,new,stocking suggestions Thanks,Ray,I had the folks I am buying this from to measure it,and u were right on target.Sheri 65 Tall,36x18x25 New,will possibly be planted. Thanks,Sheri [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25581	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

I actually started to mention in my post that I adore killies! But wouldn't they eat the shrimp? I saw a pair of killies that I just loved in the LFS the other day but they did seem to be following the black bee shrimp around with a little to much interest and the gal said they would most likely eat any baby shrimp mine produced. I obviously need to educate myself more and thank you for the book info. Kate Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: Have you thought of any kind of killie? They pack a lot of color into a small fish. I see Aquabid has a bunch listed for sale. I'd probably skip over those who try to give them a common name, and only look at those listed with a scientific name, since true killie keepers don not normally use common names except for a very few varieties/species. You might want to invest in a book like the Baensch _Aquarium Atlas Volume 1_ to help you learn more about differ families, genera, and species of fish kept in aquaria. The fish section (most of the book) has the fish grouped, generally 2 species to a page, along with a description of the fish, its behavior, and its needs. When you see something you might like, you can do further research on the web, and/or ask here for even more information. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Hey all, So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd like to profess their love for? Thanks! Kate --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25582	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

Well they're both beautiful. One of these days I will set up something bigger than a ten. My place is just so small and I really do love nanos. I keep coming up with creative places for them; the computer desk, the kitchen counter, the kitchen table, every book shelve in the place. I saw a brand new 75g for $100 at the LFS. I tried to bribe my boyfriend into letting me take over his guest room but no dice. haha. Kate Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: You'll find that _Exodon paradoxus_ is an aggressive fish, and probably would not do well in a small tank. I can't speak for _ Poecilocharax weitzmani_, but Stan Weitman, is a nice guy. Maybe the fish is also <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Ooooo, that one had some really neat ones. I really liked the Exodon Paradoxus and Poecilocharax weitzmani. I got about half through the list and my eyes need a break from the computer. Thank you again!!! Kate "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: This Wikipedia page has them listed also but without any additional information without clicking each fish link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetra Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Hey all, So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd like to profess their love for? Thanks! Kate --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25583	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

Yeah, I'm half way to c.t. haha. I will make sure to keep everything small. I'd be doing Congos and Emperors if I had the room but alas. Didn't realize you were from New Orleans. And yes I do say it the local way. haha. I had a friend from there. Always wanted to visit. Kate "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: And if you type too many latin names, you'll get carpal tunnel syndrome to go with your blood shot eyes. LOL If you run out of tetras on those two lists, you can always go to Fishbase.org and under "Information by Family", use the first drop down menu and choose "Characidae" and put a bullet in "All Fishes" and you'll get a list of over 1,100 fishes... not all of which are tetras but on the right side, you'll see some common names and if you scroll through, you'll see many are tetras but I suspect that the Wiki article was derived from the fishbase list and they only listed the ones with common names (around 150) that included "tetra" but there are many, many more without common names listed. Remember that you are limited to tetras that stay under 2" as full grown adults, so that you can keep a school in a 10G since most are schooling fish. BTW.. I never answered your question about which tetras I liked. I'll confess that I've only owned one type and that was some Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that I adopted/saved BK, from a 10G tank along with their tank mates, a school of zebra danios, two blue gouramies and a common pleco... boy was that tank overstocked! I had to separated that 10G tank into over 100G worth of tanks and even then my 65G wasn't big enough for the common pleco and I had to rehome him last year since I wasn't able to get the bigger tanks I wanted AK. Down here in N'Awlins, we date a lot of things BK and AK... Before Katrina and After Katrina... :-P Me and all of my tanks made it through Katrina... no power for 14 days and no drinkable running water for five weeks... but I did lose my two golden mystery snails a week after I did my first PWC AK. My water utility swears they were doing nothing different to the water but something caused both of my snails to go kaput right after that PWC... but it could have just been that they starved to death during the five weeks that I was limiting the feeding of all of the fish since I couldn't do PWC's. Lenny V. 504-621-1870 Pics/Info/IM - http://profiles.yahoo.com/LoverLennyV -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Ooooo, that one had some really neat ones. I really liked the Exodon Paradoxus and Poecilocharax weitzmani. I got about half through the list and my eyes need a break from the computer. Thank you again!!! Kate "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > wrote: This Wikipedia page has them listed also but without any additional information without clicking each fish link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetra Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Hey all, So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd like to profess their love for? Thanks! Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: 1/27/2008 6:39 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25584	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 1/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

There are a few little fish that I love to keep and that I would recommend for you. Penguin tetras, any of the hatchetfish and pencil fish are fun (though hatchetfish can be picky eaters). Not tetras, but cherry barbs do not grow large and are very hardy. And the pygmy (sparkling/croaking) gouramis stay about an inch long--just don't put them in with fish that move to quickly or they won't get enough food to eat. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kate" <k8hardy@...> wrote: > > Hey all, > So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons > talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into > fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again > for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, > Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in > the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The > fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of > all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly > like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a > site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good > sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd > like to profess their love for? > Thanks! > Kate >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25585	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

Pretty much any fish with a mouth large enough will, at least, taste your shrimp. To help prevent that, you'll need to provide spaces for the shrimp where the fish will not get them, and get fish that like it more where the shrimp are not, i.e. the top third of the tank, than where they are. Looking for fish with an upturned mouth would also help, as those fish are surface feeders, and do poorly when they cannot get their needs from the surface, or, at least, from above. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys I actually started to mention in my post that I adore killies! But wouldn't they eat the shrimp? I saw a pair of killies that I just loved in the LFS the other day but they did seem to be following the black bee shrimp around with a little to much interest and the gal said they would most likely eat any baby shrimp mine produced. I obviously need to educate myself more and thank you for the book info. Kate Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: Have you thought of any kind of killie? They pack a lot of color into a small fish. I see Aquabid has a bunch listed for sale. I'd probably skip over those who try to give them a common name, and only look at those listed with a scientific name, since true killie keepers don not normally use common names except for a very few varieties/species. You might want to invest in a book like the Baensch _Aquarium Atlas Volume 1_ to help you learn more about differ families, genera, and species of fish kept in aquaria. The fish section (most of the book) has the fish grouped, generally 2 species to a page, along with a description of the fish, its behavior, and its needs. When you see something you might like, you can do further research on the web, and/or ask here for even more information. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetras and other little guys Hey all, So I have 5 planted tanks going now. The 10 gallon, two 5 gallons talls, a 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon+-. I've been waiting to get too into fish until I felt like I had the plants doing well and thank you again for everyone's advice on that back in August(especially Steve, Aaron, Ray, and Lenny). I've experimented with several different shrimp in the tanks and I love those. Now I'm looking at adding a few fish. The fish need to be small and not something that would make a meal out of all the shrimp. I've been looking into several Tetras. I particularly like the Rummy Nose, Gold, and Emperor Tetras. Does anyone know of a site that lists every type of tetra with pictures? And maybe good sources for other nano fish as well? Anyone have any favorites they'd like to profess their love for? Thanks! Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25586	From: Diane	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: elephant fish

Does anyone know if there is a way of telling a male and a female elephant fish apart? Also the common pleco? Thanks Diane

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25587	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry,65 gal.Tall,new,stocking suggestions

Hi Donna, Hopes this helps any confusion, but I would have to guess its this 65 gallon Tall that the Altolamps are going into. You may have missed the part in message #25552 (1/27 @ 7:08PM) where the 55 gallon (48") tank that was originally intended for the Calvus was one of the two that were lost due to inclement weather (don't know how - left outside and was frozen/cracked???). Maybe Sheri can clear this up further if need be. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Is this for the Calvus we talked about, or are they still going in a 48" > long tank? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of sheriartist57 > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sorry,65 gal.Tall,new,stocking suggestions > > > > Thanks,Ray,I had the folks I am buying this from to measure it,and u > were right on target.Sheri > 65 Tall,36x18x25 > New,will possibly be planted. > Thanks,Sheri > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25588	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry,65 gal.Tall,new,stocking suggestions

Well if that’s true then the tankmates I suggested off list won’t work as well in a 36” tank. I wouldn’t do the cyps and I’d limit to one other species. I’m doing calvus and lamprologus caudopunctatus in my 36” tank. Shellies are another option. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 6:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sorry,65 gal.Tall,new,stocking suggestions Hi Donna, Hopes this helps any confusion, but I would have to guess its this 65 gallon Tall that the Altolamps are going into. You may have missed the part in message #25552 (1/27 @ 7:08PM) where the 55 gallon (48") tank that was originally intended for the Calvus was one of the two that were lost due to inclement weather (don't know how - left outside and was frozen/cracked???). Maybe Sheri can clear this up further if need be. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Is this for the Calvus we talked about, or are they still going in a 48" > long tank? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of sheriartist57 > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sorry,65 gal.Tall,new,stocking suggestions > > > > Thanks,Ray,I had the folks I am buying this from to measure it,and u > were right on target.Sheri > 65 Tall,36x18x25 > New,will possibly be planted. > Thanks,Sheri > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25589	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking

I can respect this difference in recommendations for stocking this tank with proposed tankmates for the A. calvus. What works for some does not always work for all. This suggestion may not necessarily mean that mild-mannered Malawi's can't be mixed with like mannered Tanganyika's, it often depends on how the tank is set up and can be quite successful (and pleasing) at these times. Unlike Mbunba set ups, such stockings need not (should not) lean towards the heavy side in efforts to otherwise disperse aggression. Lighter stockings of the mix will promote the "elbow room" that will lead to favorable results, although I'm sure other hobbyists must have had less than the best of results for them to recommend otherwise, perhaps due to so many of the variables in their set ups. Many of today's aquarists tend not to use any marine salt at all in their Rift Lake tanks, with apparent success; many do use crushed coral though, on the other hand. Its very fortunate to have tap water of pH 7.8 when maintaining these African Cichlids, which can be augmented with buffers (such as SeaChem's) developed for use in these environments. I would agree that consistancy of parameters is very important with keeping these fish since, evolving in a fixed environment of hard/alkaline waters they do not take kindly to fluctuation. I'm from the "old school" though, as one of the early commercial importers of these fish back in the early ' 70's, and although we relied solely on high pH water for short-term storage of these fish in our holdimg tanks until shipped, the addition of marine salts for long-term maintenance was always recommended and seen as quite effectual in preserving these fishes' health. For increased longevity, a pH higher than 7.8 has always been seen to be more effective for the Tanganyika fish, although they can adapt to a somewhat lower pH range if kept uniform, just so the pH is still in the higher range; here the TDS goes a long ways with it also, which is equally important to these fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Well your Calvus are very mild-mannered. Except once a pair is formed, > another pair is unlikely to be tolerated in the same tank. Sometimes people > get lucky and a trio is formed, or maybe even two pair if the tank is large > enough. > > > In fact, tankmates must be chosen with care so that the Calvus will not be > stressed and be able to compete for food. > > > I do have a different approach than Ray on certain items: I do not add > marine salt or anything to my water. My tap is pH 7.8, but consistency is > more important than perfection (which would be more like the pH=8+ that Ray > mentions). > > > I would also stick with Tanganyikans and not add the Malawi to this tank. I > inquired about Peacocks as tankmates for Calvus when designing my own tank, > but people who had tried it did not recommend it. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of sheriartist57 > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking > > > > Thanks for your advice,ray and Donna and everyone else. > I have done some extensive research on both internet and books.I am > simply not familiar with alot of the cyclids,as I have only been > adding to my fish mania with less aggresive freshwater tropicals.I > started again with some livebearers,a few koy and goldfish,as we are > building a pond this summer,and wanted to get them past the baby stage > before I stocked it. > My husband wanted an Oscar,who I enjoy thoroghly,and already had a 10" > pleco for 7 years,who works very well with the oscar,but too big for > any of my smaller fish.I have really gotten into this,have started > collecting rainbows as I can acquire them,and have about 6 varieties > of platies and guppies.I have also put together my first paludarium > and today we did a 55 planted tank.I am home 99% time because of > health issues,and we finally have the room in our new house for me to > explore this hobby fully.I spend more time in research than the actual > hands on,but enjoy it so very much.The only reason I sought this site > out was for the help with experienced aquarist.The books can be very > informative,although somewhat generic.The only thing I hate is the > drama in some of the forums. > I guess u missed the part of my message where we had an ice incident > because of increment weather,and I lost 2 large tanks one of which was > to be the setup for the Altolamprologus calvus Inkfin.I have planned > to put the Inkfins in a 55long,but was just looking for ideas for a 60 > tall as well. > I am very clear what this species is,and they are F1,but most of the > info I have found via internet is about wild habitat,which I find > fascinating,but not very helpful when it comes to a home aquarium.I am > hoping to get it set up soon as not be getting these for another month > or so.I want to find something compatable with their environmental > needs,as I do hope to have a few out of 20 pair up and raise. > I felt it might be best to introduce some of the other cichlids at the > same time,to help cut down on aggressive behaviour.I am enthralled by > them,but concerned about the aggresion issues.I would like to buy them > while still small enough to hopefully pair up these as well. > Any advice from anyone is welcome,just please don't tell me my tanks > are overstocked.I am working on that as quickly as I am able,and do > very consistent water changes and huge filtration.Non of my tanks has > any balance problems,except the goldfish and koi,which will have to > wait till spring to move those.Our pm outside temp has been in single > digits here since Christmas,so there is nothing I can do except keep > up with water changes. > I only have one angel,never owned discus or African Cichlids before.I > have 9 tanks at the present time,and some are species tanks with a few > community tanks. > I wish we had a local aquatic club in our county,but don't as yet. > Please feel free to send me any idea,I have already gained some useful > information which led me in the right direction for more research. > Thanks,Sheri > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25590	From: hank voss	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> wrote: If the fish has a lot of blue body sheen its probably Inpaichthys keeri (spelling could be off) Hank ------------------------------------------- > Thanks Lenny. That did have a couple I haven't seen in my searches. There's one I ran into a while ago. It had color similar to an Emperor but more blue and black. It was small and had a very blunt face. Does that sound familiar to anyone? > Kate > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25591	From: Blue fish	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C4343565D4B49425A445146445A515F49 ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C4343565D4B49425A445146445A515F49 Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C4343565D4B49425A445146445A515F4C Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25592	From: ED	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Help!

General rule of thumb is 1gal of water per 1" of fish(body not to include fins).Do not forget gravel will take up some water area( about 1/2 gal per small bag of gravel --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sam Palermo <skywavebe@...> wrote: > > Angel, > It all depends on the size of these fish. I don't use small tanks like > the 10 or even a 20 now days. > I like to let them swim around more like they originally would be able to. > The other part of missing data is what type of filtering do you have > hooked up? > If too small a filter, the job of keeping the tank clean will be more a > headache than a hobby. > I use Fluval larger ones like 403's and all my tanks (55Gal) have two > filters on them. there > should be good surface agitation by way of a spray tube for the return > of the filter. This > makes for very good oxygenation. Tanks and stands are pretty cheap so > those would allow you more > fish due to the larger environment. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > > Angel Phillips wrote: > > > > I forgot a Fish in my 10 gallon tank there is a fancytail guppy in > > there also. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25593	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Help with 60 gal tall,stocking

Sheri, Noticing your Pleco of 7 years has grown to no more than 10", it would seem that its not the common Pleco many of us are familiar with so I wouldn't think it will get much bigger. Even if stunted, I'd think that a common Pleco would get larger than that after that amount of time (that's much less than half the full size of the common Pleco). Still, I would not add anything else to this tank unless you plan to relocate this Pleco. Lots of luck with the pond, BTW. Keep up with the research, its invaluable; hands on experience will come with time -- glad you're finding enjoyment in it, we've all found it fulfilling and I think I can speak for any of us who are in this hobby. I will have to agree that many books in the hobby are generic, but still very worthwhile reading if only you pick up just one or two valuable tid-bits that you never knew before. Of course. books more to the particular subject of interest is always more interesting. I did miss that part originally about your losing two largetank due to the weather. Sorry to hear about that, that's most unfortunate. I have to assume they were outside (with water) and they froze(?). The 55 would have been even better for the Inkfins, but they should do alright in the one you have planned. While the info you've found on them may relate to their wild habitat, at least some of this info can come in handy when setting up the tank to suit them best. I did just notice that you're expecting 20 A. calvus Inkfins. That's quite a population of them -- the introduction of other species will not disuade any aggression that may play out among their conspecifics. They are not like Mbuna, which interact their aggression with other species, except at breeding times. Even though this species is not that aggressive, that's a fairly large crowd for all of them competing for the same bottom space/rock-work area. For good odds at attaining a pair, you only needed to purchase 6 of them, mathematically giving you a 97% chance of getting at least one pair from such a group -- I've been lucky enough to get 3 pairs at times out of 6 individuals. Of course there's always the chance of getting all one sex, although seven or eight individuals would have been more than enough and probably would have resulted in multiple pairs. You may be able to maintain two pairs in this tank, one pair at each end with their own section of rock work. They may be more reluctant to wander to each other's side, with an expanse of sandy substrate in the center. You'll need to watch them all closely as they mature to be ready to pull out all the extras , as breeding pairs will not tolerate these straglers (loners) swimming within their territory. You certainly won't be able to keep all of these. Glad to see you already do consistant water changes. Keep in mind though, that these fish do not especially like large water changes that are much different than that of their tank parameters. Its best to do smaller but regular water changes with them. Your one Angel should not be put with them, in fact no New World Cichlid should be kept with any Old World (in this case Tanganyika) Cichlid as they don't understand each other's signals (of aggression, etc.), not to mention their preferred differences in water parameters. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sheriartist57" <sheriartist57@...> wrote: > > Thanks for your advice,ray and Donna and everyone else. > I have done some extensive research on both internet and books.I am > simply not familiar with alot of the cyclids,as I have only been > adding to my fish mania with less aggresive freshwater tropicals.I > started again with some livebearers,a few koy and goldfish,as we are > building a pond this summer,and wanted to get them past the baby stage > before I stocked it. > My husband wanted an Oscar,who I enjoy thoroghly,and already had a 10" > pleco for 7 years,who works very well with the oscar,but too big for > any of my smaller fish.I have really gotten into this,have started > collecting rainbows as I can acquire them,and have about 6 varieties > of platies and guppies.I have also put together my first paludarium > and today we did a 55 planted tank.I am home 99% time because of > health issues,and we finally have the room in our new house for me to > explore this hobby fully.I spend more time in research than the actual > hands on,but enjoy it so very much.The only reason I sought this site > out was for the help with experienced aquarist.The books can be very > informative,although somewhat generic.The only thing I hate is the > drama in some of the forums. > I guess u missed the part of my message where we had an ice incident > because of increment weather,and I lost 2 large tanks one of which was > to be the setup for the Altolamprologus calvus Inkfin.I have planned > to put the Inkfins in a 55long,but was just looking for ideas for a 60 > tall as well. > I am very clear what this species is,and they are F1,but most of the > info I have found via internet is about wild habitat,which I find > fascinating,but not very helpful when it comes to a home aquarium.I am > hoping to get it set up soon as not be getting these for another month > or so.I want to find something compatable with their environmental > needs,as I do hope to have a few out of 20 pair up and raise. > I felt it might be best to introduce some of the other cichlids at the > same time,to help cut down on aggressive behaviour.I am enthralled by > them,but concerned about the aggresion issues.I would like to buy them > while still small enough to hopefully pair up these as well. > Any advice from anyone is welcome,just please don't tell me my tanks > are overstocked.I am working on that as quickly as I am able,and do > very consistent water changes and huge filtration.Non of my tanks has > any balance problems,except the goldfish and koi,which will have to > wait till spring to move those.Our pm outside temp has been in single > digits here since Christmas,so there is nothing I can do except keep > up with water changes. > I only have one angel,never owned discus or African Cichlids before.I > have 9 tanks at the present time,and some are species tanks with a few > community tanks. > I wish we had a local aquatic club in our county,but don't as yet. > Please feel free to send me any idea,I have already gained some useful > information which led me in the right direction for more research. > Thanks,Sheri > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25594	From: ED	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: elephant fish

can't seem to find anyone with that info but here's a cool page of awesomw info http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gnathonemus_petersii.html I have black ghost knife(55gal) also an electric fish. Will hand feed, not sure about the elephant. We want to get one but will need to put it in our 29gal IE two electric fish is a NO NO in same tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Diane" <diane_20007@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know if there is a way of telling a male and a female > elephant fish apart? Also the common pleco? Thanks Diane >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25595	From: ED	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: elephant fish

Well look hard enough I will prevail. apparently the EOD=electrical discharge is used to identify diff sexes http://fish.mongabay.com/mormyridae.htm 'sunshine and Gentle Breezes' --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > can't seem to find anyone with that info but here's a cool page of > awesomw info > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gnathonemus_petersii.html > > I have black ghost knife(55gal) also an electric fish. Will hand feed, > not sure about the elephant. We want to get one but will need to put it > in our 29gal IE two electric fish is a NO NO in same tank. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Diane" <diane_20007@> wrote: > > > > Does anyone know if there is a way of telling a male and a female > > elephant fish apart? Also the common pleco? Thanks Diane > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25596	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Inkfin Calvus

My inkfin's are going into a 55 long.They are only 1-2" long right now.I haven't set up the tank for them yet,as it will still be a while before I can travel to pick these up.They were originally part of a group of 40,and I hope to be able to get 2 or three pairs,and will not keep the rest.I was suprised to see his fry setup in a 20 gallon,with just a few large rocks in it,no stacked rock or "caves".His adults were,and he has had great success with these.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25597	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: The sound of glass breaking,ahhhh

I don't remember which site I read it on,but someone's quote was"It is all fun and games until the glass breaks" We had 4"snow here,then about 3 hours of sleet,which was so heavy it sounded more like hail,then freezing rain.Shortly after it stopped,our temp dove to 8',with windchill of -5,and didn't get out of the teens for days.I know that might not sound unusual,but it is for North Carolina.Our van slid on the driveway,and broke the 55gal and a spare 10gal.All I could think about was that quote,which just made me laugh. I have bought a 55 long to put the calvus inkfins in,and the guy had a 60 tall as well.I just thought it might be fun to do a big tall tank.Once I get these,and set them up,I won't be doing any others for awhile,unless I can get an aquarium room built.ohhhahh

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25598	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: another introduction....newbie...

Oscar's are fun. So are fish like the Midas I adopted last week. I am inclined to believe that a fish that is more or less raised by itself tends to develop more personality because they need interaction. When they are by themselves - the only interaction they get is with humans. They learn that if they do funny stuff - they get people to come around more. IMO - you can probably cultivate a fun personality with most fish if they are alone in a tank. I have NOT read the other responses to your post yet - so I may be saying what someone else already said ... Good Luck! Me - Randy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rn_ple" <rpyle@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone.... > I'm a person who has fallen in love with Oscars. We have one at work. > (i might even end up with him) He is an absolute character! Let me hold > off talking about that fish in fear of being named: Dances with Fish. > > One big question I have is: Are Oscars or the Original Oscar actually > more personable and intelligent than other Cichlids? > > The reason I ask is I would rather keep size down some. But personality > is what it's all about to me. Would be nice to have something smaller > and prettier like a couple yellow labs. But again...the personality is > supreme. > > I'd like to keep my tank or tanks down to 50 gallon. But gee... if I > had that Oscar at work. I'd have to give him at least a 75 gallon tank. > > Ron >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25599	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2008
Subject: Re: Help!

Ed, That rule only works for a small percentage of fish species... community fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults and are torpedo shaped. It does not work for nearly any other type of fish. I personally call it the 1" fish killing rule since it's all over the internet and is perpetuated by ill-informed fish/pet store employees and is responsible for killing more fish except for maybe fish keepers lack of knowledge of the nitrogen cycle. A simple example is that you cannot put a 10" Oscar or Goldfish in a 10G tank. Here's my blog about "New guidelines to replace the 1" fish killing rule" which tries to give some simple guidelines that will work for most fish. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html If the link breaks, just go to my main blog link in my sig and it's listed on the right side. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: RE:Help! General rule of thumb is 1gal of water per 1" of fish(body not to include fins).Do not forget gravel will take up some water area( about 1/2 gal per small bag of gravel --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Sam Palermo <skywavebe@...> wrote: > > Angel, > It all depends on the size of these fish. I don't use small tanks like > the 10 or even a 20 now days. > I like to let them swim around more like they originally would be able to. > The other part of missing data is what type of filtering do you have > hooked up? > If too small a filter, the job of keeping the tank clean will be more a > headache than a hobby. > I use Fluval larger ones like 403's and all my tanks (55Gal) have two > filters on them. there > should be good surface agitation by way of a spray tube for the return > of the filter. This > makes for very good oxygenation. Tanks and stands are pretty cheap so > those would allow you more > fish due to the larger environment. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam > Service Technician still doing repairs. > > > Angel Phillips wrote: > > > > I forgot a Fish in my 10 gallon tank there is a fancytail guppy in > > there also. > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.15/1248 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 9:32 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25600	From: Kevin	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: 2 questions

1 will a beter female beta recover frm shock dramitc tempature change in water and 2 how long does it take for a male beta fins to fully grow back on average

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25601	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: The sound of glass breaking,ahhhh

I haven't been there (so far) but i can understand the fear of it! I too am in NC and about a week ago they were saying we could get over 4 inch of snow here ... the western NY part of me was saying ONLY 4 inches - BUT the NC side of me went UH OH - no power back up for my tanks ( a 210 gal - 3 90's - 2 56gal columns - and a 10 gal grow out) Thought I might have to buy a generator and some electric blankets to keep my guys alive. Has anyone been through a winter power outage? from me, Randy (southern Wake County NC) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sheriartist57" <sheriartist57@...> wrote: > > I don't remember which site I read it on,but someone's quote was"It is > all fun and games until the glass breaks" We had 4"snow here,then about > 3 hours of sleet,which was so heavy it sounded more like hail,then > freezing rain.Shortly after it stopped,our temp dove to 8',with > windchill of -5,and didn't get out of the teens for days.I know that > might not sound unusual,but it is for North Carolina.Our van slid on > the driveway,and broke the 55gal and a spare 10gal.All I could think > about was that quote,which just made me laugh. > I have bought a 55 long to put the calvus inkfins in,and the guy had a > 60 tall as well.I just thought it might be fun to do a big tall > tank.Once I get these,and set them up,I won't be doing any others for > awhile,unless I can get an aquarium room built.ohhhahh >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25602	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: 2 questions

1. Dramatic temperature change is a common cause of an Ich infestation so be on the lookout for that. Give us more details about what happened, how the fish was acting before and how the fish is acting now. 2. This depends on how bad the fins were. Was the damage a result of fin rot or nipping or ??? If the fins were damaged all the way down to the pedicle, they may not grow back in that area. I'm presuming from your two questions that you had the female and male together and she was beating him up badly so you moved her to another container with different water parameters. Let me know if that is correct? If so, for other potential betta breeders, let this be a lesson that you should keep both homes set up and running and they should have similar water parameters prior to introducing the fish to the same tank. This way, if things do not work out, which is common, you can separate them without either fish suffering too much or suffering from osmoregulatory or temperature shock. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 4:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 2 questions 1 will a beter female beta recover frm shock dramitc tempature change in water and 2 how long does it take for a male beta fins to fully grow back on average No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.16/1250 - Release Date: 1/29/2008 10:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25603	From: ED	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help!

OMGOD I forgot that is with proper filtration IE.. Both under gravel as well as a regular backside filter. You hopefully will excuse me the wife is the one who ran the pet stores. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > General rule of thumb is 1gal of water per 1" of fish(body not to > include fins).Do not forget gravel will take up some water area( > about 1/2 gal per small bag of gravel > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sam Palermo <skywavebe@> wrote: > > > > Angel, > > It all depends on the size of these fish. I don't use small tanks > like > > the 10 or even a 20 now days. > > I like to let them swim around more like they originally would be > able to. > > The other part of missing data is what type of filtering do you > have > > hooked up? > > If too small a filter, the job of keeping the tank clean will be > more a > > headache than a hobby. > > I use Fluval larger ones like 403's and all my tanks (55Gal) have > two > > filters on them. there > > should be good surface agitation by way of a spray tube for the > return > > of the filter. This > > makes for very good oxygenation. Tanks and stands are pretty cheap > so > > those would allow you more > > fish due to the larger environment. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > > (708)334-2260 > > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > > > > > Angel Phillips wrote: > > > > > > I forgot a Fish in my 10 gallon tank there is a fancytail guppy in > > > there also. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25604	From: ED	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help!

TY. Yeah my wife ran the pet stores and she let me know as well. That's why I joined though to learn. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ed, > > That rule only works for a small percentage of fish species... community > fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults and are torpedo shaped. It > does not work for nearly any other type of fish. > > I personally call it the 1" fish killing rule since it's all over the > internet and is perpetuated by ill-informed fish/pet store employees and is > responsible for killing more fish except for maybe fish keepers lack of > knowledge of the nitrogen cycle. A simple example is that you cannot put a > 10" Oscar or Goldfish in a 10G tank. > > Here's my blog about "New guidelines to replace the 1" fish killing rule" > which tries to give some simple guidelines that will work for most fish. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- replace-1-per. > html If the link breaks, just go to my main blog link in my sig and it's > listed on the right side. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ED > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:50 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: RE:Help! > > General rule of thumb is 1gal of water per 1" of fish(body not to include > fins).Do not forget gravel will take up some water area( about 1/2 gal per > small bag of gravel > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > Sam Palermo <skywavebe@> wrote: > > > > Angel, > > It all depends on the size of these fish. I don't use small tanks > like > > the 10 or even a 20 now days. > > I like to let them swim around more like they originally would be > able to. > > The other part of missing data is what type of filtering do you > have > > hooked up? > > If too small a filter, the job of keeping the tank clean will be > more a > > headache than a hobby. > > I use Fluval larger ones like 403's and all my tanks (55Gal) have > two > > filters on them. there > > should be good surface agitation by way of a spray tube for the > return > > of the filter. This > > makes for very good oxygenation. Tanks and stands are pretty cheap > so > > those would allow you more > > fish due to the larger environment. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam > > Service Technician still doing repairs. > > > > > > Angel Phillips wrote: > > > > > > I forgot a Fish in my 10 gallon tank there is a fancytail guppy in > > > there also. > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.15/1248 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 > 9:32 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25605	From: ED	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Black Ghost Knife

Absolutily the coolest fish I've ever known. I got to feed him this morning ( blood worms-frozen ). OMGOD Aggressive eating. Rubs against your hand. Does anyone else own one of these magnificent creatures?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25606	From: whjordan83	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife

I have a large tank with these guys, back in May I succeccfully bred them. Not sure what specifics I used to accomplish this. By the time I realized it I only had two offspring left and one has survived to this day. I wish I had the opportunity to see and moniter what went on to get them to breed, but I had a death in the family and the tanks were not my focus at that time. Also try frozen and freeze dried mysis shrimp, mine tear them up. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Absolutily the coolest fish I've ever known. I got to feed him this > morning ( blood worms-frozen ). OMGOD Aggressive eating. Rubs against > your hand. Does anyone else own one of these magnificent creatures? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25607	From: Andreas	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife

thats funny you got them to breed... most people say you can't have more than one in a atank at a time as they will attack each other.... but I guess they have to breed somehow :) A On Jan 30, 2008 4:31 PM, whjordan83 <whjordan83@...> wrote: > I have a large tank with these guys, back in May I succeccfully bred > them. Not sure what specifics I used to accomplish this. By the time > I realized it I only had two offspring left and one has survived to > this day. I wish I had the opportunity to see and moniter what went on > to get them to breed, but I had a death in the family and the tanks > were not my focus at that time. > > Also try frozen and freeze dried mysis shrimp, mine tear them up. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "ED" > <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > > > Absolutily the coolest fish I've ever known. I got to feed him this > > morning ( blood worms-frozen ). OMGOD Aggressive eating. Rubs against > > your hand. Does anyone else own one of these magnificent creatures? > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25608	From: in_my_mind19	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: cichlid identification

I recently bought a small cichlid from my local pet store. I have been unable to identify what kind he is, more than likely due to my newness to fish. But he is at 2 inches long, with a light grey body and darker grey verticle lines on him. Also, I have notice he changes colors from almost a liquid white color in the light and then the normal grey with dark grey strips. Anyone know what kind of cichlid he is?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25609	From: blueyz75@charter.net	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: introductions

hello all! I've been looking for other groups to keep me occupied while I'm at work and found this one. Normally I'm on Koiphen but seems they are not busy enough on our slow nights. I have a 7400 gallon pond with 10 koi and one resident goldfish and I have a goldfish downstairs too.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25610	From: Kevin	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: 2 questions

what happed was i had a male in with 4 females and his fins were fine the day before and there were the avegage size and alost all are gone evan the 2 seprat right nere here heard the other one femail was alone in here tank so i dediced to move here to another thank one with decent cold water the other with preaty worm watner and she has almost like seazures swimming around crazy hiting here head on the ground hitig the wall some tme hiting the top so on --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > 1. Dramatic temperature change is a common cause of an Ich infestation so > be on the lookout for that. Give us more details about what happened, how > the fish was acting before and how the fish is acting now. > > 2. This depends on how bad the fins were. Was the damage a result of fin > rot or nipping or ??? If the fins were damaged all the way down to the > pedicle, they may not grow back in that area. > > I'm presuming from your two questions that you had the female and male > together and she was beating him up badly so you moved her to another > container with different water parameters. Let me know if that is correct? > > > If so, for other potential betta breeders, let this be a lesson that you > should keep both homes set up and running and they should have similar water > parameters prior to introducing the fish to the same tank. This way, if > things do not work out, which is common, you can separate them without > either fish suffering too much or suffering from osmoregulatory or > temperature shock. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 4:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 2 questions > > 1 will a beter female beta recover frm shock dramitc tempature change in > water and 2 how long does it take for a male beta fins to fully grow back on > average > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.16/1250 - Release Date: 1/29/2008 > 10:20 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25611	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/30/2008
Subject: Re: 2 questions

Well if the males fins disappeared in one day, it was likely due to one or more of the females biting them off. You need to separate them but it may be too late. As to the female, it's probably a severe case of shock brought on by improper or no acclimation from the warmer tank to the colder tank and most fish do not recover from severe shock. Go to my blog and on my page, "A to Z of Fish Keeping", right near the top are links to two online tutorials you should take to learn all of the basics of fish keeping so you start doing things better in the future. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 2 questions what happed was i had a male in with 4 females and his fins were fine the day before and there were the avegage size and alost all are gone evan the 2 seprat right nere here heard the other one femail was alone in here tank so i dediced to move here to another thank one with decent cold water the other with preaty worm watner and she has almost like seazures swimming around crazy hiting here head on the ground hitig the wall some tme hiting the top so on --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > 1. Dramatic temperature change is a common cause of an Ich infestation so > be on the lookout for that. Give us more details about what happened, how > the fish was acting before and how the fish is acting now. > > 2. This depends on how bad the fins were. Was the damage a result of fin > rot or nipping or ??? If the fins were damaged all the way down to the > pedicle, they may not grow back in that area. > > I'm presuming from your two questions that you had the female and male > together and she was beating him up badly so you moved her to another > container with different water parameters. Let me know if that is correct? > > > If so, for other potential betta breeders, let this be a lesson that you > should keep both homes set up and running and they should have similar water > parameters prior to introducing the fish to the same tank. This way, if > things do not work out, which is common, you can separate them without > either fish suffering too much or suffering from osmoregulatory or > temperature shock. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 4:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 2 questions > > 1 will a beter female beta recover frm shock dramitc tempature change in > water and 2 how long does it take for a male beta fins to fully grow back on > average > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.16/1250 - Release Date: 1/29/2008 10:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25612	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: cichlid identification

What did the local pet store say he was? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of in_my_mind19 Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cichlid identification I recently bought a small cichlid from my local pet store. I have been unable to identify what kind he is, more than likely due to my newness to fish. But he is at 2 inches long, with a light grey body and darker grey verticle lines on him. Also, I have notice he changes colors from almost a liquid white color in the light and then the normal grey with dark grey strips. Anyone know what kind of cichlid he is? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25613	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: cichlid identification

I'm not a pro either but a common one that matches that description would be a convict cichlid... Carmen > > I recently bought a small cichlid from my local pet store. I have > been unable to identify what kind he is, more than likely due to my > newness to fish. But he is at 2 inches long, with a light grey body > and darker grey verticle lines on him. Also, I have notice he changes > colors from almost a liquid white color in the light and then the > normal grey with dark grey strips. Anyone know what kind of cichlid > he is?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25614	From: Carmen H	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: cichlid identification

I forgot to add...my convict only goes super-pale when he's very stressed out, otherwise he's a rich grey. So if it is a convict, his colors should stabilize once he's settled in. If not, check water quality, tank mates, etc... Carmen wrote: > I'm not a pro either but a common one that matches that description > would be a convict cichlid...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25615	From: ED	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife

I'll keep that(mysis shrimp) in mind. We also feed frozen brine but he really prefers the blood worms. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "whjordan83" <whjordan83@...> wrote: > > I have a large tank with these guys, back in May I succeccfully bred > them. Not sure what specifics I used to accomplish this. By the time > I realized it I only had two offspring left and one has survived to > this day. I wish I had the opportunity to see and moniter what went on > to get them to breed, but I had a death in the family and the tanks > were not my focus at that time. > > Also try frozen and freeze dried mysis shrimp, mine tear them up. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > Absolutily the coolest fish I've ever known. I got to feed him this > > morning ( blood worms-frozen ). OMGOD Aggressive eating. Rubs against > > your hand. Does anyone else own one of these magnificent creatures? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25616	From: ED	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife

Some of the articals I've read on the electrical fish say only one per tank(perhaps thay mean diff species). But the elephant fish seems to have a real problem in captivity, they tell sex by electrical emissions, and when put in a tank they start sending other sex signal IE males emit a female signal. I'm geussing they are still wild caught. PLEASE what size tank? Planted? Other fish in tank? Temp? PH? Any extra info would be greatly appreciated. I'd love to get another. LOL. Our twin daughters saw it(BGK) in the store hours after it arrived and purchased it for thier mother the next day after school. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote: > > thats funny you got them to breed... most people say you can't have more > than one in a atank at a time as they will attack each other.... but I guess > they have to breed somehow :) > > A > > On Jan 30, 2008 4:31 PM, whjordan83 <whjordan83@...> wrote: > > > I have a large tank with these guys, back in May I succeccfully bred > > them. Not sure what specifics I used to accomplish this. By the time > > I realized it I only had two offspring left and one has survived to > > this day. I wish I had the opportunity to see and moniter what went on > > to get them to breed, but I had a death in the family and the tanks > > were not my focus at that time. > > > > Also try frozen and freeze dried mysis shrimp, mine tear them up. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, "ED" > > <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > > > Absolutily the coolest fish I've ever known. I got to feed him this > > > morning ( blood worms-frozen ). OMGOD Aggressive eating. Rubs against > > > your hand. Does anyone else own one of these magnificent creatures? > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25617	From: whjordan83	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife

I started in a 29 gallon and havesince moved them to a 55. I know this will soon be too small for the two. I have two 75 gallons I am setting up so I will be able to split them soon. The articles are correct when you read about keeping them together. When they were in the 29, they would chase one another around, and what I assume would be the male grew larger than the other. I keep densley planted tanks with lots of drift and hiding places for them. I have had them for almost two years each. As far as wild caught I cannot say, I would assume they were, but I have done some research on them and discoveredthat there are a small number of people who have successfully bred them, but not enough for a commercial scale. Naturally they thrive in low light, usually a noctournal species. I have low light grow lamps on my tanks for the plants. As far as plant species go, I try and stick to easy growing plants from the amaon region, where the fish are from. Swords of all types work great, and some others that are not from the region like the Anubias and java fern species. I had other fish with them at one time, but eventually they made bite size snacks of them. When they are smaller they will do fine with tetra species that are non-agressive, but eventually they will eat things that can fit in their mouths. I still keep some assorted cory catfish with them. I know of other people that have been able to keep angelfish with them in large tanks as well as discus. I have not experimented with either of these, but I can see how discus would work good since they both require the same water condtions and are both sensitive to water quality. I have also adapted freeze dried river shrimp and baby shrimp into the diet. Occasionally I feed them things like beef heart an brine shrimp. Hands down though they love thosefrozen blood worms and freeze dried mysis shrimp. The elephant nose is not a good tank companion though. I'm not sure of many fish that do work with them. I have had them in the past but they never seem to work out in the long run, they make everything in the tank nervous. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Some of the articals I've read on the electrical fish say only one > per tank(perhaps thay mean diff species). But the elephant fish seems > to have a real problem in captivity, they tell sex by electrical > emissions, and when put in a tank they start sending other sex signal > IE males emit a female signal. I'm geussing they are still wild > caught. PLEASE what size tank? Planted? Other fish in tank? Temp? PH? > Any extra info would be greatly appreciated. I'd love to get another. > LOL. Our twin daughters saw it(BGK) in the store hours after it > arrived and purchased it for thier mother the next day after school. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Andreas <andreas1120@> wrote: > > > > thats funny you got them to breed... most people say you can't have > more > > than one in a atank at a time as they will attack each other.... > but I guess > > they have to breed somehow :) > > > > A > > > > On Jan 30, 2008 4:31 PM, whjordan83 <whjordan83@> wrote: > > > > > I have a large tank with these guys, back in May I succeccfully > bred > > > them. Not sure what specifics I used to accomplish this. By the > time > > > I realized it I only had two offspring left and one has survived > to > > > this day. I wish I had the opportunity to see and moniter what > went on > > > to get them to breed, but I had a death in the family and the > tanks > > > were not my focus at that time. > > > > > > Also try frozen and freeze dried mysis shrimp, mine tear them up. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, "ED" > > > <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Absolutily the coolest fish I've ever known. I got to feed him > this > > > > morning ( blood worms-frozen ). OMGOD Aggressive eating. Rubs > against > > > > your hand. Does anyone else own one of these magnificent > creatures? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25618	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tetras and other little guys

Not much of a sheen. The blue was a very powdery blue. Kate hank voss <aatetras@...> wrote: --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> wrote: If the fish has a lot of blue body sheen its probably Inpaichthys keeri (spelling could be off) Hank ------------------------------------------- > Thanks Lenny. That did have a couple I haven't seen in my searches. There's one I ran into a while ago. It had color similar to an Emperor but more blue and black. It was small and had a very blunt face. Does that sound familiar to anyone? > Kate > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25619	From: ED	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife

Awesome TY again for the info. Ours is in a 55gal now with a 3 angels, a pleco , a bala shark and a couple green corys. They all get along accept the BGK chases the pleco out of his hiding places sometimes. We are looking for a 75 or larger tank. I'm discussing with a custom tank maker about making a 150 myself. Ours is planted with swords, java, and anacaris(the angels seem to like it). We have 3 more angels in a 29 right now we are wanting to move to the 55 when they are bug enough. I noticed this morning he ate well BUT his color was faded about 3/4 of the front of his body. -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "whjordan83" <whjordan83@...> wrote: > > I started in a 29 gallon and havesince moved them to a 55. I know > this will soon be too small for the two. I have two 75 gallons I am > setting up so I will be able to split them soon. The articles are > correct when you read about keeping them together. When they were in > the 29, they would chase one another around, and what I assume would > be the male grew larger than the other. I keep densley planted tanks > with lots of drift and hiding places for them. I have had them for > almost two years each. As far as wild caught I cannot say, I would > assume they were, but I have done some research on them and > discoveredthat there are a small number of people who have > successfully bred them, but not enough for a commercial scale. > > Naturally they thrive in low light, usually a noctournal species. I > have low light grow lamps on my tanks for the plants. As far as > plant species go, I try and stick to easy growing plants from the > amaon region, where the fish are from. Swords of all types work > great, and some others that are not from the region like the Anubias > and java fern species. I had other fish with them at one time, but > eventually they made bite size snacks of them. When they are smaller > they will do fine with tetra species that are non-agressive, but > eventually they will eat things that can fit in their mouths. I > still keep some assorted cory catfish with them. I know of other > people that have been able to keep angelfish with them in large tanks > as well as discus. I have not experimented with either of these, but > I can see how discus would work good since they both require the same > water condtions and are both sensitive to water quality. > > I have also adapted freeze dried river shrimp and baby shrimp into > the diet. Occasionally I feed them things like beef heart an brine > shrimp. Hands down though they love thosefrozen blood worms and > freeze dried mysis shrimp. > > The elephant nose is not a good tank companion though. I'm not sure > of many fish that do work with them. I have had them in the past but > they never seem to work out in the long run, they make everything in > the tank nervous. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > Some of the articals I've read on the electrical fish say only one > > per tank(perhaps thay mean diff species). But the elephant fish > seems > > to have a real problem in captivity, they tell sex by electrical > > emissions, and when put in a tank they start sending other sex > signal > > IE males emit a female signal. I'm geussing they are still wild > > caught. PLEASE what size tank? Planted? Other fish in tank? Temp? > PH? > > Any extra info would be greatly appreciated. I'd love to get > another. > > LOL. Our twin daughters saw it(BGK) in the store hours after it > > arrived and purchased it for thier mother the next day after school. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Andreas <andreas1120@> wrote: > > > > > > thats funny you got them to breed... most people say you can't > have > > more > > > than one in a atank at a time as they will attack each other.... > > but I guess > > > they have to breed somehow :) > > > > > > A > > > > > > On Jan 30, 2008 4:31 PM, whjordan83 <whjordan83@> wrote: > > > > > > > I have a large tank with these guys, back in May I > succeccfully > > bred > > > > them. Not sure what specifics I used to accomplish this. By the > > time > > > > I realized it I only had two offspring left and one has > survived > > to > > > > this day. I wish I had the opportunity to see and moniter what > > went on > > > > to get them to breed, but I had a death in the family and the > > tanks > > > > were not my focus at that time. > > > > > > > > Also try frozen and freeze dried mysis shrimp, mine tear them > up. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, "ED" > > > > <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Absolutily the coolest fish I've ever known. I got to feed > him > > this > > > > > morning ( blood worms-frozen ). OMGOD Aggressive eating. Rubs > > against > > > > > your hand. Does anyone else own one of these magnificent > > creatures? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25620	From: jviswakula	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Aquarium Network /Auction/Webstore

Hello All, This is a follow up on a post I made about the launch of http://www.Finvillage.com the Aquarium and Aquaculture related social and business networking website. We are now offering auction style paypal enabled webstores for members. For fish clubs we offer a password protected free webstore so that you can sell special discounted items only to your members(please message me for more details). Cheers to all, Jinen

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25621	From: in_my_mind19	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: cichlid identification

They just said that he is a 'small cichlid' no identification at all --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What did the local pet store say he was? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of in_my_mind19 > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] cichlid identification > > > > I recently bought a small cichlid from my local pet store. I have > been unable to identify what kind he is, more than likely due to my > newness to fish. But he is at 2 inches long, with a light grey body > and darker grey verticle lines on him. Also, I have notice he changes > colors from almost a liquid white color in the light and then the > normal grey with dark grey strips. Anyone know what kind of cichlid > he is? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25622	From: Di	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Just uploaded a few new pics

Hi All Just update some pics of the new fish we are getting into check Greenz Fish album they should be approved soon. ;) Di

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25623	From: coryswalter	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Thoughts on Skilters

I'm getting ready to start up my 55 gallon aquarium as a living reef...no fish for quite a while. We were told to look at getting a skilter......please give me your thoughts and experiences and advice on them.......also what HP should we get for a 55 gal. tank? Thanks in advance....Cory

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25624	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Re: 2 questions

I do not have any long term experience,but I have had four for several months now.Two had fin rot,and I put them in a hospital tank.I thought for sure the one with all of his tail and some of his fins wouldn't make it,but now after dosing him with some meds then adding a small amount of aqua salt to their tank gradually,he is looking so much better,his color and tail/fins are growing.I can see the change almost daily.I took them out of a nasty bowl,split up two 10 gallon tanks,and kept up with the meds once a day.I had reduced the water slightly so the meds would be a little easier to concentrate. I have found bettas to be extremely hardy,I think that is the only reason they make it in a bowl which quickly becomes a sewer.I have vowed never to subject them to that,at least a five gallon,a ten is so much easier to keep up with and only two fish at that. I have had them in unheated tanks,and heated,and mine seem to thrive a little better with at least the heat from an aquatic tank. I had to really clean the filter and change the airtubes afterwards.Hope u get urs thru this.I will never buy another,no matter how beautiful they are,but I didn't want to lose the ones I had.--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <kev48us@...> wrote: > > 1 will a beter female beta recover frm shock dramitc tempature change > in water and 2 how long does it take for a male beta fins to fully grow > back on average >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25625	From: sheriartist57	Date: 1/31/2008
Subject: Gourami valium

Haha,I have moved the gourami's that I had that were so agressive to a 55 gallon planted tank with 2 spendid rainbows and three full grown giant malabar danios.The danios were racing all over the place when I would walk in the room,and I did find the shyest one dead today.The rainbows have been schooling with the danios,and to slow them down a bit,I added some floating plants.The gouramis love this,and it has slowed the danios down.Maybe they can't see me as well when I walk in. Someone had these in with Goldfish,it is a wonder they survived at all.As soon as the ground thaws,we are putting in a pond.My little goldfish and koi are small enough to have in a tank still,but the big goldfish I adopted will never do well except in a pond.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25626	From: ED	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Giant salamander

cool link to geographic thought some might like it http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/photogalleries/amphibian -pictures/index.html?email=Focus01Feb08

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25627	From: Jenn	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Breeding for Blood Parrots

Hi All! I was wondering if anyone had attempted to breed for blood parrot cichlids? My main question would be does it matter which parent fish, the Red Devil or Gold Severum, is the male or the female? I have past experience breeding everything from live bearers to other cichlids. Any info would be greatly appreciated! Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25628	From: Jenn	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: cichlid identification

Hi! From what you describe it really does sound like a convict cichlid. Make sure he has plenty of room (you will be able to tell the difference in sex in no time, they hit sexual maturity very quickly. The male will have a longer pointier dorsal fin and the female will get orange spots on her side when she is ready to breed. If you do have a pair, make sure you have them in a pretty big tank, especially if you have other cichlids in it. When they start to breed, they are very very protective parents. (Picture a full sized adult Oscar being bullied by a 4 inch Convict). It is a great experience to see the brooding and watch the babies develop. A downfall is that you end up with tons of fish. They are very prolific breeders. I kept convicts for a while, my fish had this wonderful purple color to the grey body color. They are definitely interesting fish and a good starter cichlid. jenn > > > > I recently bought a small cichlid from my local pet store. I have > > been unable to identify what kind he is, more than likely due to > my > > newness to fish. But he is at 2 inches long, with a light grey > body > > and darker grey verticle lines on him. Also, I have notice he > changes > > colors from almost a liquid white color in the light and then the > > normal grey with dark grey strips. Anyone know what kind of > cichlid > > he is? > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25629	From: Jenn	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Breeding for Blood Parrots

Hi All! I was wondering if anyone had attempted to breed for blood parrot cichlids? My main question would be does it matter which parent fish, the Red Devil or Gold Severum, is the male or the female? I have past experience breeding everything from live bearers to other cichlids. Any info would be greatly appreciated! Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25630	From: Jenn	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Adding a store to the LFS section

Hi, I wanted to add my favorite store but there is no folder for Pittsburgh, PA. How do I do it? jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25631	From: Kate	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

Well I stayed at my boyfriend's house last night and when I came home to my condo this morning my place was over 100 degrees and every single fish, shrimp and dart frog was dead. The poor fish and shrimp were boiled to death. I am SO upset. I cried for an hour. I have radiant heat/cooling and apparently the valve got stuck. My cats almost died too. This is terrible! Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25632	From: William	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots

Aren't there enough hybrid fish in the world now without putting more on here. And if you do get lucky are you sure that you can give them all proper homes? Are are you just interested in seeing if you can do this? If you belong to an aquarium club , most will not give you any breeders award points for breeding hybrids. In my opinion the Asians that are producing these fish are artificially raising them where they will take the eggs and sperm from the fish without the adults actually seeing one another and raising the young apart for either parent. That is only my opinion. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: > > Hi All! > > I was wondering if anyone had attempted to breed for blood parrot > cichlids? My main question would be does it matter which parent fish, > the Red Devil or Gold Severum, is the male or the female? I have > past experience breeding everything from live bearers to other cichlids. > > > Any info would be greatly appreciated! > > Jenn >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25633	From: jason horyak	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: requesting recommendations

I just bought a tank 75 gallon . I am thinking of mainly a maybe a south american tank with plecos and possible discus in the future or maybe angels. I have three other set ups going with various fish and all are well but I am wondering what is the best filtration for this new one. there are a million options and I have always gone with undergravel with hang on back at the same time. these have been economical and work really with with a little upkeep. any recommendations on filtration and substrate for these type fish is appreciated. jason --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25634	From: Amy	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Turbo Snails

How many turbo snails can I place in a 72 gallon tank? Is there any other beginner algea eater that I can try? The tank currently houses a very large Turbo, a juvenile lionfish, a juve snowflake eel, 5 damsels, and a long tentacle anemone.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25635	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

OMG what a nightmare! Thank goodness the kitties are all right but everyone else, what an awful loss :-( I feel so bad for you :-( Carmen On Feb 1, 2008 4:23 PM, Kate <k8hardy@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Well I stayed at my boyfriend's house last night and when I came home > to my condo this morning my place was over 100 degrees

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25636	From: jason horyak	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

ahhhh no joke, I am not a cat fan but dang those fish had to die, IS THERE NO JESUS! Seriously I am sorry for your loss and I hope you can come back bigger and better. Carmen H <eskielists@...> wrote: OMG what a nightmare! Thank goodness the kitties are all right but everyone else, what an awful loss :-( I feel so bad for you :-( Carmen On Feb 1, 2008 4:23 PM, Kate <k8hardy@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Well I stayed at my boyfriend's house last night and when I came home > to my condo this morning my place was over 100 degrees --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25637	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots

William I agree. One of the Aquarium Societies I belong to will not ALLOW them to be sold or traded.  If you have ever been on aquabid and looked in the frankenfish, er make that flowerhorn section, there are hundreds of these and people only bid on maybe 5 out of hundreds. I have a parked site that I need to make a web page for soon. No-Hybrid-Cichlids. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: William <dreammaker2623@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 1:53 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots Aren't there enough hybrid fish in the world now without putting more on here. And if you do get lucky are you sure that you can give them all proper homes? Are are you just interested in seeing if you can do this? If you belong to an aquarium club , most will not give you any breeders award points for breeding hybrids. In my opinion the Asians that are producing these fish are artificially raising them where they will take the eggs and sperm from the fish without the adults actually seeing one another and raising the young apart for either parent. That is only my opinion. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: > > Hi All! > > I was wondering if anyone had attempted to breed for blood parrot > cichlids? My main question would be does it matter which parent fish, > the Red Devil or Gold Severum, is the male or the female? I have > past experience breeding everything from live bearers to other cichlids. > > > Any info would be greatly appreciated! > > Jenn > ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25638	From: exquisitebeauty1976	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: advice please

my 30 gal tank has finally finished cycling (after much touch and go in the early stages). I have a few live plants, plan to add more in the near future and plenty of rocky hiding places. Currently I house 3 zebra danios, 3 white cloud danios, a chinese algae eater and a female betta. I'd like to add a few more fish sort of as center pieces, but I'm not sure if I should or if I do, what species would be welcomed in this tank. Any suggestions?? Thanks, Rika

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25639	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife

I have one, too. Over the years, I have managed to grow one to about 10 inches. They are fun to watch and feed. As they get older, I add small mealworms to their diet of frozen bloodworms and chopped earthworms. I've only had one at a time, so I have no idea how they breed.    Gregg Bender Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25640	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: advice please

The CAE grows to 10"-11" so it is too big (or will be) for your tank and you should make plans to re-home it so it does not get stunted and they are also reported to get very aggressive to tank mates as they mature. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Are the "white cloud danio's" actually WCMM's (white cloud mountain minnows)? If they are the WCMM's, are they schooling with the zebra danio's? I would think not and if they aren't, then you should fill out the schools (6) on both of them and try to have at least two females for each male to limit the chasing/nipping when mating calls. WCMM's- http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Tanichthys_albonubes.html Zebra Danio's - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Brachydanio_rerio.html They both grow to 2" to 2.5" so with 12 of them and the female betta, you are approaching suggested stocking limits. You could add a single Gourami as a larger "center piece" fish, or a pair of dwarf gourami's, if you rehome the CAE. That would definitely max out the suggested stocking and be a little over but since your tank is planted, that will help compensate. Also, the danio's and WCMM's are cooler water fish, even though the zebra danio's are often sold as tropical's, so if you are going to mix them with tropical's, make sure to keep the temperature down near the bottom of the tropical scale... around 75F, which is the suggested top end temp for cooler water fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of exquisitebeauty1976 Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 7:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] advice please my 30 gal tank has finally finished cycling (after much touch and go in the early stages). I have a few live plants, plan to add more in the near future and plenty of rocky hiding places. Currently I house 3 zebra danios, 3 white cloud danios, a chinese algae eater and a female betta. I'd like to add a few more fish sort of as center pieces, but I'm not sure if I should or if I do, what species would be welcomed in this tank. Any suggestions?? Thanks, Rika No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release Date: 1/31/2008 8:30 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25641	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

So sorry for your losses. : ( _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 4:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent Well I stayed at my boyfriend's house last night and when I came home to my condo this morning my place was over 100 degrees and every single fish, shrimp and dart frog was dead. The poor fish and shrimp were boiled to death. I am SO upset. I cried for an hour. I have radiant heat/cooling and apparently the valve got stuck. My cats almost died too. This is terrible! Kate [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25642	From: bmp	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

I'm so sorry for your losses. I would have cried too. I am glad your cats are okay. Most of all, I hope your heating/cooling system will be fixed and not malfunction again! Beverly --- Kate <k8hardy@...> wrote: > Well I stayed at my boyfriend's house last night and > when I came home > to my condo this morning my place was over 100 > degrees and every single > fish, shrimp and dart frog was dead. The poor fish > and shrimp were > boiled to death. I am SO upset. I cried for an hour. > I have radiant > heat/cooling and apparently the valve got stuck. My > cats almost died > too. This is terrible! > Kate Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25643	From: Jenn	Date: 2/1/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots

Wow, OK....geez, sorry to offend...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25644	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Giant salamander

neat stuff! (My daughter totally freaked out thinking it was something I was looking at as a potential pet ;) I had to explain that they are for zoos only.) .......But life goes on and it gets better... and when it doesn't get better, there's always tequila. --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25645	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

I am so sorry to hear that, Kate! I always have these horrible fears that bad things will happen when I'm not home.... I'm so sorry it did for you. ~Helen --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25646	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots

Hi Jenn, While you need not feel as though you've offended anyone here, by some of the replies you can see that some hobbyists can be quite passionate about the hobby when it comes to hybrid fish such as Blood Parrots. I too am included in that sector of hobbyists. In reply to your request for more information on these fish, all's I can say is for you to please refer back what you wrote in your very next post to someone using a Group Site name of "in_my_mind" (unfortunately they chose not to sign it), when they were looking for an identification for their Convict Cichlids. You wrote: "A DOWNFALL is that you end up with tons of fish." Please consider that for a moment, when applying that to what you're considering. At best, Blood Parrots are popular with only a very small portion of Aquarium keepers (I can't call them "aquarists"), so for starters, its going to be very difficult in getting rid of most of them. Secondly, this hobby does not need any additional "mongrel" fish; keeping fish species pure and as close to their natural counterparts in the wild is so much more desirable and rewarding. Since you appear to have some experience with Cichlids, I'd recommend trying to breed a species (perhaps Severum, since you mentioned them) which you've also been interested in; one that you haven't bred before, as you'll find that the challenge is well worth it when you succeed. Best of Luck, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: > > Hi All! > > I was wondering if anyone had attempted to breed for blood parrot > cichlids? My main question would be does it matter which parent fish, > the Red Devil or Gold Severum, is the male or the female? I have > past experience breeding everything from live bearers to other cichlids. > > > Any info would be greatly appreciated! > > Jenn >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25647	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots

While very little is written on this subject, from what I've come to understand you're absolutely right in that these fish are artificially bred for the most part, similar to how they breed trout and salmon in the various gamefish hatcheries. This goes for the Blood Parrots as well as the many different varieties of Flowerhorns (using all kinds of unnatural combinations). These fish would be reluctant to breed with each other in the aquarium for the most part, if they were left to themselves to do so, even though there are "natural hybrids" occurring in the wild when people join two different rivers with a canal (as done in locations of Central America). Such hybrids will almost always prove to be infertile or at the most be comparatively quite weak in the wild when competing with true species, fortunately, but is still detrimental to the established populations as a whole. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > Aren't there enough hybrid fish in the world now without putting more > on here. And if you do get lucky are you sure that you can give them > all proper homes? Are are you just interested in seeing if you can do > this? If you belong to an aquarium club , most will not give you any > breeders award points for breeding hybrids. In my opinion the Asians > that are producing these fish are artificially raising them where > they will take the eggs and sperm from the fish without the adults > actually seeing one another and raising the young apart for either > parent. That is only my opinion. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@> > wrote: > > > > Hi All! > > > > I was wondering if anyone had attempted to breed for blood parrot > > cichlids? My main question would be does it matter which parent > fish, > > the Red Devil or Gold Severum, is the male or the female? I have > > past experience breeding everything from live bearers to other > cichlids. > > > > > > Any info would be greatly appreciated! > > > > Jenn > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25648	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

Kate, I'm so sorry to hear of your losses; you have my sympathies. Many of us have experienced something similar when a thermostat stuck on a heater (which is avoidable if using two), but for something like this to happen when its beyond your control is very unfortunate. Its just good that the cats came through this alright. While it will not bring these fish back, if you live in a house I'm quite sure your Homeowners Insurance should cover the monetary losses adding it in to the heating repairs. If you live in an apartment, you should present the landlord will an itemized bill, to be deducted from your next month's rent. Try to put this behind you if you can -- we hate to see you as upset as you must be. Our hearts go out to you. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kate" <k8hardy@...> wrote: > > Well I stayed at my boyfriend's house last night and when I came home > to my condo this morning my place was over 100 degrees and every single > fish, shrimp and dart frog was dead. The poor fish and shrimp were > boiled to death. I am SO upset. I cried for an hour. I have radiant > heat/cooling and apparently the valve got stuck. My cats almost died > too. This is terrible! > Kate >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

Helen, Would that be called Home-aphobia? Sorry... couldn't resist! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Pattskyn Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 6:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent I am so sorry to hear that, Kate! I always have these horrible fears that bad things will happen when I'm not home.... I'm so sorry it did for you. ~Helen - No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1255 - Release Date: 2/1/2008 9:59 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25650	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots

We had a large pair of parrot cichlids at the store once, I always hated selling these, only time I ever got them in was when we advertised them in our add on sale. But this pair I felt bad for as they always tried to breed, and none of the eggs would hatch, We sold them off as a pair as they were in fishy "love" but with the new owners knowing they would not get young from these guys. Part of the problem with hybrids, they are not a natural species, guess its mother natures way of saying you are not natural, you are not allowed to reproduce. ~Melissa --- Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > While very little is written on this subject, from > what I've come to > understand you're absolutely right in that these > fish are > artificially bred for the most part, similar to how > they breed trout > and salmon in the various gamefish hatcheries. This > goes for the > Blood Parrots as well as the many different > varieties of Flowerhorns > (using all kinds of unnatural combinations). These > fish would be > reluctant to breed with each other in the aquarium > for the most part, > if they were left to themselves to do so, even > though there > are "natural hybrids" occurring in the wild when > people join two > different rivers with a canal (as done in locations > of Central > America). Such hybrids will almost always prove to > be infertile or > at the most be comparatively quite weak in the wild > when competing > with true species, fortunately, but is still > detrimental to the > established populations as a whole. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William" > <dreammaker2623@...> > wrote: > > > > Aren't there enough hybrid fish in the world now > without putting > more > > on here. And if you do get lucky are you sure that > you can give > them > > all proper homes? Are are you just interested in > seeing if you can > do > > this? If you belong to an aquarium club , most > will not give you > any > > breeders award points for breeding hybrids. In my > opinion the > Asians > > that are producing these fish are artificially > raising them where > > they will take the eggs and sperm from the fish > without the adults > > actually seeing one another and raising the young > apart for either > > parent. That is only my opinion. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" > <jennhonaker1974@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi All! > > > > > > I was wondering if anyone had attempted to breed > for blood parrot > > > cichlids? My main question would be does it > matter which parent > > fish, > > > the Red Devil or Gold Severum, is the male or > the female? I have > > > past experience breeding everything from live > bearers to other > > cichlids. > > > > > > > > > Any info would be greatly appreciated! > > > > > > Jenn > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25651	From: AquaticLife™	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

Kate, My condolences on your loss, that is very sad to hear. If you have any favorite pics that you would like to share I would gladly put them on the groups home page in memory of your wet pets. I am glad your cats survived. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kate" <k8hardy@...> wrote: > > Well I stayed at my boyfriend's house last night and when I came home > to my condo this morning my place was over 100 degrees and every single > fish, shrimp and dart frog was dead. The poor fish and shrimp were > boiled to death. I am SO upset. I cried for an hour. I have radiant > heat/cooling and apparently the valve got stuck. My cats almost died > too. This is terrible! > Kate >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25653	From: Widi Rahman	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: new tips

i have new tips for koi fish to know all about koi fish please visit www.koi-world.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25654	From: wil	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Nano fish

I'm looking for 6 Nano fish. I would like something very Odd looking. Willing to pay $30 or less. Must be easy to take care of. Wil

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25655	From: Jenn	Date: 2/2/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots

> Thanks to everyone that replied. I understand that they are hybrids and that they are "unnatural" but they happen to be a fish that I really like. I didn't the first time that I saw them but I came to realize that they are very active, personable, funny fish. I understand being passionate about what you love, I just felt a little cornered by the responses that I got. If I were to breed, it would be mainly for myself. I do not belong to an aquarium society, although I know there is one in Pittsburgh. I do have enough fish keeping friends that I could find suitable homes for them. (I also work part time at a store that specializes in freshwater and saltwater fish, demand for the blood parrots in this area is pretty good so I could always give them to the store.) As far as the Convict "downfall" of having lots of babies, I mean that if the person wasn't planning on breeding so she wasn't shocked at how very, very prolific cichlids are...If he/she planned on breeding, it's a great fish to start with. Convicts were my first cichlids. I am currently keeping rainbow fish but have had various South American cichlids in the past and I find myself missing them. Now, if anyone has any websites or books they would recommend for rainbows (that I will not even attempt to breed, they seem like a very tedious fish to breed.)or even any that are available in the fish trade that you think I should check out, I would appreciate that. So far I have: Turquoise, Bosemani, Red Iraim, Axelrods, Australian, preacox, and some that I don't know the name of. I was told they are pretty new in the fish trade, the associate couldn't find the shipment forms but he said he thought they were "zig zag" rainbows or something like that. Thanks everyone. jenn > In reply to your request for more information on these fish, all's I > can say is for you to please refer back what you wrote in your very > next post to someone using a Group Site name of "in_my_mind" > (unfortunately they chose not to sign it), when they were looking for > an identification for their Convict Cichlids. You wrote: "A DOWNFALL > is that you end up with tons of fish." Please consider that for a > moment, when applying that to what you're considering. > > At best, Blood Parrots are popular with only a very small portion of > Aquarium keepers (I can't call them "aquarists"), so for starters, its > going to be very difficult in getting rid of most of them. Secondly, > this hobby does not need any additional "mongrel" fish; keeping fish > species pure and as close to their natural counterparts in the wild is > so much more desirable and rewarding. Since you appear to have some > experience with Cichlids, I'd recommend trying to breed a species > (perhaps Severum, since you mentioned them) which you've also been > interested in; one that you haven't bred before, as you'll find that > the challenge is well worth it when you succeed. Best of Luck, Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@> wrote: > > > > Hi All! > > > > I was wondering if anyone had attempted to breed for blood parrot > > cichlids? My main question would be does it matter which parent fish, > > the Red Devil or Gold Severum, is the male or the female? I have > > past experience breeding everything from live bearers to other > cichlids. > > > > > > Any info would be greatly appreciated! > > > > Jenn > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25656	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots

Hi Jenn. _http://bowheads.org/_ (http://bowheads.org/) _http://www.australianrainbowfish.com/index.htm_ (http://www.australianrainbowfish.com/index.htm) _http://www.angfa.org.au/index.html_ (http://www.angfa.org.au/index.html) _http://www.rainbowfish.info/_ (http://www.rainbowfish.info/) _http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/r_m_l/_ (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/r_m_l/) -Mike In a message dated 2/2/2008 10:13:32 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jennhonaker1974@... writes: Now, if anyone has any websites or books they would recommend for rainbows (that I will not even attempt to breed, they seem like a very tedious fish to breed.)or even any that are available in the fish trade that you think I should check out, I would appreciate that. So far I have: Turquoise, Bosemani, Red Iraim, Axelrods, Australian, preacox, and some that I don't know the name of. I was told they are pretty new in the fish trade, the associate couldn't find the shipment forms but he said he thought they were "zig zag" rainbows or something like that. Thanks everyone. jenn **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25657	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots

Jenn, Some excellent Rainbowfish books I'd recommend for your consideration are these following publications which, although out of print, may be found on eBay from time to time and are well worth looking for; I have these in my library: (1) "Rainbowfishes in Nature and in the Aquarium" by Dr. Gerald R'. Allen (1995 Tetra Press). Exceedingly good reference book. (2) "Rainbowfishes of Australia and Papua New Guinea" by Dr. Gerald R. Allen & Norbert J. Cross (1982 T.F.H. Publications) HIGHLY recommended; Dr. Allen is THE world reknown expert on Rainbowfish. (3) "Australian Native Fishes" by Ray Leggett and John R. Merrick (1987 J.R. Merrick Publications) Covers a wide variety of Australian fishes, including many Rainbowfish; the authors are well-recognized authorities on Australian aquatic fauna. (4) "Rainbowfishes - Keeping & Breeding Them in Captivity" by Derek Lambert ( 1998 T.F.H. Publications) Excellent 64 page softcover book with much information and photos. (5) "Rainbowfishes I D - Care and Breeding" by G.R. Allen (1996). The "Zig Zag" Rainbowfish you mention is Dority's Rainbowfish (Glossolepis dorityi); its basically a silver fish, but has attractive horizontal red zig-zag stripes, mostly in the lower half of the fish. The females are primarily silver. While they're peaceful, they can get up to 8" after time, several inches larger than the ones you kept before. One very important thing to keep in mind if ordering Rainbowfish sight unseen, is that many of these species come from different locations. The colorations of these same species can vary immensely from location to location, so its imperative to specify the location of your choice, if you have any particular ones in mind. Since you're asking, Rainbowfish I'd recommend for you to check out, which are found in the trade are; (Chequered Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia splendida inornata) - this species is very variable, with the best colored sub-species being "inornata", Lake Wanam Rainbowfish (Glossolepis wanamenisis), Banded Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia trifasciata Goyder River) - the Goyer River location of this species is the best by far, MacCulloch's Rainbowfish, also known as Red- Finned Rainbowfish and Dwarf 7-Lined Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia maccullochi) - called "Dwarf" at times as it gets to no more than 3" (still much larger than M. praecox). The best variety of M. maccullochi comes from the northern part of the Cape York peninsula of Australia, with the second best colored ones coming from Papua, New Guinea. The variety found near Cairns is also quite colorful, but those found elsewhere in the State of Queensland are not as attractive. This is the first Rainbowfish I started out with in 1954, and which I again kept about 8 or 10 years ago, and its one I'd highly recommend, provided you find the right variety (they can knock your socks off). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: > > > > Thanks to everyone that replied. > > I am currently keeping rainbow fish but have had various South > American cichlids in the past and I find myself missing them. > > Now, if anyone has any websites or books they would recommend for > rainbows (that I will not even attempt to breed, they seem like a very > tedious fish to breed.)or even any that are available in the fish > trade that you think I should check out, I would appreciate that. So > far I have: Turquoise, Bosemani, Red Iraim, Axelrods, Australian, > preacox, and some that I don't know the name of. I was told they are > pretty new in the fish trade, the associate couldn't find the shipment > forms but he said he thought they were "zig zag" rainbows or something > like that. > > Thanks everyone. > > jenn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In reply to your request for more information on these fish, all's I > > can say is for you to please refer back what you wrote in your very > > next post to someone using a Group Site name of "in_my_mind" > > (unfortunately they chose not to sign it), when they were looking for > > an identification for their Convict Cichlids. You wrote: "A DOWNFALL > > is that you end up with tons of fish." Please consider that for a > > moment, when applying that to what you're considering. > > > > At best, Blood Parrots are popular with only a very small portion of > > Aquarium keepers (I can't call them "aquarists"), so for starters, its > > going to be very difficult in getting rid of most of them. Secondly, > > this hobby does not need any additional "mongrel" fish; keeping fish > > species pure and as close to their natural counterparts in the wild is > > so much more desirable and rewarding. Since you appear to have some > > experience with Cichlids, I'd recommend trying to breed a species > > (perhaps Severum, since you mentioned them) which you've also been > > interested in; one that you haven't bred before, as you'll find that > > the challenge is well worth it when you succeed. Best of Luck, Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi All! > > > > > > I was wondering if anyone had attempted to breed for blood parrot > > > cichlids? My main question would be does it matter which parent fish, > > > the Red Devil or Gold Severum, is the male or the female? I have > > > past experience breeding everything from live bearers to other > > cichlids. > > > > > > > > > Any info would be greatly appreciated! > > > > > > Jenn > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25658	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

I can see why you're so upset! I would be, too. I'm very sorry to hear about that. My worst day I had recently was the day my arowana totally disappeared.. permanently. Considering he (?) was about 8 inches long, that was quite a feat. I do have four Shelties, and we never found the body...I keep wondering if someone had arowana sushi for lunch that day... Gregg Bender Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25659	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...

I put a female betta in the tank. The fish guy told me she could go in a community tank (well, not just her, but female bettas in general). I waited. I put in three neon tetras. A week went by with them al swimming, eating, and looking pretty. Then one neon was dead. I took him back to the store and got a bigger, stronger looking neon. He lasted 2 days. He had been chasing the smaller neons, and the betta had been chasing him. I think she is killing them, but she has left these two smaller ones alone. Do fish have dominance type things? Or could she have been protecting the smaller fish? Or do I need a new tank/bowl for her? I'm looking into the last one (new tank/bowl). If it was something wrong in the tank, wouldn't (at the very least) the other neons be dying? I'm taking a water sample in when I take back this neon. Not sure if I am getting another one. Fish guy also said that neons do best in odd number groups. 3, 5, 7, etc. because 1 is a leader and the others pair up with each other. That's why I ask about the dominance thing. Maybe she is only attacking the leader? I'm not going to add any new fish until I figure this out, and possible until I get her a new tank/bowl. I've been considering giving her away. I would like to have the other fish survive and really in the beginning had no intention of having a betta. But if I get her a new tank/bowl and it is big enough, was thinking of getting another betta to go with her so she is not alone. If I went that direction, would I want a male or another female? Can they breed that easily, or would I be safe in getting a male, and NOT end up with more fish from it? Thanks for your patience :-) anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25660	From: rsteph49	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Question about diatoms in tank

I have a still fairly new tank; I've had the tank for almost a month now. It's a 20 gallon tank, with about 17 pounds of live rock, and some crushed coral substrate. I also have one common clownfish in the tank; I was advised to add one fish to help the initical cycle along, advice I've since learned wasn't really the best idea. I've been monitoring my chemical levels and believe my initial cylce is nearing an end. As a byproduct of the cycle though I have a lot of brown-algae stuff (diatoms); a lot. It's coated the top of my live rock, the surface of my substrate, and even formed some on my filter tube and powerhead. My guestion is, do I need to do something to clean off all of this algae to allow for more desirable coral-line algae to grow? Or Will the other fish, and invertabrates I add, over the next month or so, eat away the diatoms for me? I've got one clownfish right now, I also plan to add a flame firefish, crab, skunk cleaner shrimp, snail, and *maybe* some kind of ground sifting fish to swim along the bottom. Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25661	From: maybelline101	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...

I would be really careful with what type of fish you put in with bettas. When I was starting off I kept my females separate since I knew that males and females will become aggressive. I had 3 females in a bowl together. They killed each other. They are known for their fighting- Siamese Fighting Fish! I would suggest on seeing if they work it out, if not maybe a new tank with bigger room mates. I had a male betta who killed my other fish- guppies. They can become peaceful with in a few weeks. Its a dominance thing- territorial. If you go for a male betta and want to breed you need a tank with lots of coverage for females And raio is 2 females per a male. I would maybe try the female with bigger fish like platys or something. But if not I would wait and see what she does to the rest. Cleo --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Anndrea" <anndreae@...> wrote: > > I put a female betta in the tank. The fish guy told me she could go > in a community tank (well, not just her, but female bettas in > general). I waited. I put in three neon tetras. A week went by with > them al swimming, eating, and looking pretty. Then one neon was dead. > > I took him back to the store and got a bigger, stronger looking neon. > > He lasted 2 days. > > He had been chasing the smaller neons, and the betta had been > chasing him. > > I think she is killing them, but she has left these two smaller ones > alone. > > Do fish have dominance type things? Or could she have been > protecting the smaller fish? Or do I need a new tank/bowl for her? > > I'm looking into the last one (new tank/bowl). > > If it was something wrong in the tank, wouldn't (at the very least) > the other neons be dying? > > I'm taking a water sample in when I take back this neon. Not sure if > I am getting another one. > > Fish guy also said that neons do best in odd number groups. 3, 5, 7, > etc. because 1 is a leader and the others pair up with each other. > That's why I ask about the dominance thing. Maybe she is only > attacking the leader? > > I'm not going to add any new fish until I figure this out, and > possible until I get her a new tank/bowl. > > I've been considering giving her away. I would like to have the > other fish survive and really in the beginning had no intention of > having a betta. But if I get her a new tank/bowl and it is big > enough, was thinking of getting another betta to go with her so she > is not alone. If I went that direction, would I want a male or > another female? Can they breed that easily, or would I be safe in > getting a male, and NOT end up with more fish from it? > > Thanks for your patience :-) > > anndrea >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25662	From: bmp	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Soaking mopani wood

Good afternoon, For four weeks, I have been soaking mopani wood which I intend to add to my new tank. I change the water about every 3 days, when it starts to look dark like weak soy sauce. I wonder if someone here has experience with it and can tell me if this is common, for it to take so long. My previous experience was with Malaysian hardwood (teak?) and it was ready to use in about 1.5 weeks. I admit this process with the mopani is testing my patience some. The spot where I plan on putting it is being overtaken by Vallisneria quite rapidly so that is a dilemma. You see, I am the one who loves the look of Vallisneria and didn't have such great luck with it before; now it is positively lush with runners so I don't want to disturb it too much when I add the mopani wood. Thanks, Beverly Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25663	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Soaking mopani wood

Why not go ahead and put it in? The tannins that color the water are harmless and will be removed with PWC's and/or carbon in the filter... Carmen On Feb 3, 2008 5:01 PM, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Good afternoon, > > For four weeks, I have been soaking mopani wood

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25664	From: William	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Soaking mopani wood

I have read that if you put sodium bicarbonate in the water with the wood it will help to get rid of the tannins faster. The tannins are what make the water darker in color. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Carmen H" <eskielists@...> wrote: > > Why not go ahead and put it in? The tannins that color the water are > harmless and will be removed with PWC's and/or carbon in the filter... > > Carmen > > On Feb 3, 2008 5:01 PM, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good afternoon, > > > > For four weeks, I have been soaking mopani wood >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25665	From: weiyuansun	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Good web site for fish food and aquriums maintenance

Hello, I am in USA, and my kids just start for fish tank_20 Gallon. Would anyone please help/pass a good web site for Good price of fish food and aquriums maintenance? Thanks, Yuans

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25666	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...

Did you fishless cycle the tank first? If you don't know what that means, then you are cycling with fish and you need to be testing your ammonia/nitrite levels on a daily basis and doing 25% PWC's (partial water changes) as needed to keep the levels below 1.0ppm and preferably below 0.5ppm until the tank fully completes the nitrogen cycle... anywhere from 2-8 weeks. Go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side, look for the link "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and at the top of that page, there are two links to online tutorials that you should take, which will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping... including the nitrogen cycle, fishless cycling and cycling with fish (not the preferred method although most stores won't tell you since they want to sell you more fish when yours die prematurely from going through the arduous cycling process). Neon's are a schooling fish and should be in groups of 6 or more and it's a good idea to have at least two females for each male to minimize chasing/nipping during any mating periods. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html You can go to http://fish.mongabay.com and look at good profiles on almost all tropical fish and many others as well. You do NOT want to put a male betta in with females as they will most certainly fight... sometimes to the death... just like the males will do. What size tank do you currently have, how long has it been set up, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ok, I need advice/info, I think... I put a female betta in the tank. The fish guy told me she could go in a community tank (well, not just her, but female bettas in general). I waited. I put in three neon tetras. A week went by with them al swimming, eating, and looking pretty. Then one neon was dead. I took him back to the store and got a bigger, stronger looking neon. He lasted 2 days. He had been chasing the smaller neons, and the betta had been chasing him. I think she is killing them, but she has left these two smaller ones alone. Do fish have dominance type things? Or could she have been protecting the smaller fish? Or do I need a new tank/bowl for her? I'm looking into the last one (new tank/bowl). If it was something wrong in the tank, wouldn't (at the very least) the other neons be dying? I'm taking a water sample in when I take back this neon. Not sure if I am getting another one. Fish guy also said that neons do best in odd number groups. 3, 5, 7, etc. because 1 is a leader and the others pair up with each other. That's why I ask about the dominance thing. Maybe she is only attacking the leader? I'm not going to add any new fish until I figure this out, and possible until I get her a new tank/bowl. I've been considering giving her away. I would like to have the other fish survive and really in the beginning had no intention of having a betta. But if I get her a new tank/bowl and it is big enough, was thinking of getting another betta to go with her so she is not alone. If I went that direction, would I want a male or another female? Can they breed that easily, or would I be safe in getting a male, and NOT end up with more fish from it? Thanks for your patience :-) anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1256 - Release Date: 2/2/2008 1:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25667	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Soaking mopani wood

Almost all wood, useable in an aquarium, needs to be soaked until it stops leaching tannins unless you are setting up a tank where you want the brown water effect and low pH. If you can find a pot large enough, boiling it will speed up the process. Down here in N'Awlins, I used my crawfish boiler but I know most folks don't have anything that large. The other thing you can do, if the wood is at least staying sunken, is to add it to your tank and run fresh carbon or other chemical filtration which will remove the tannins from the water. I use Purigen from Seachem, as my chemical filtration, since it's rechargeable using a bleach solution so it's a lot more cost effective in the long run compared to carbon which should be changed out every couple of weeks or more if you are using it to remove all those tannins. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bmp Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 4:01 PM To: uniquaria@yahoogroups.com Cc: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Soaking mopani wood Good afternoon, For four weeks, I have been soaking mopani wood which I intend to add to my new tank. I change the water about every 3 days, when it starts to look dark like weak soy sauce. I wonder if someone here has experience with it and can tell me if this is common, for it to take so long. My previous experience was with Malaysian hardwood (teak?) and it was ready to use in about 1.5 weeks. I admit this process with the mopani is testing my patience some. The spot where I plan on putting it is being overtaken by Vallisneria quite rapidly so that is a dilemma. You see, I am the one who loves the look of Vallisneria and didn't have such great luck with it before; now it is positively lush with runners so I don't want to disturb it too much when I add the mopani wood. Thanks, Beverly No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1256 - Release Date: 2/2/2008 1:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25668	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Soaking mopani wood

While tannins are technically harmless, they will lower the pH a lot so that has to be considered, depending on the fish that are in the tank, but you are correct about doing PWC's and using lots of fresh chemical filtration to help remove them also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 5:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Soaking mopani wood Why not go ahead and put it in? The tannins that color the water are harmless and will be removed with PWC's and/or carbon in the filter... Carmen On Feb 3, 2008 5:01 PM, bmp <bmpardue@... <mailto:bmpardue%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Good afternoon, > > For four weeks, I have been soaking mopani wood No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1256 - Release Date: 2/2/2008 1:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25669	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Soaking mopani wood

I'm not sure sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) that will get rid of the tannins but adding baking soda will help buffer the water to help avoid a drastic pH crash that may happen with excess tannins in insufficiently buffered water. Here's a page on dosing baking soda... http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 6:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Soaking mopani wood I have read that if you put sodium bicarbonate in the water with the wood it will help to get rid of the tannins faster. The tannins are what make the water darker in color. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Carmen H" <eskielists@...> wrote: > > Why not go ahead and put it in? The tannins that color the water are > harmless and will be removed with PWC's and/or carbon in the filter... > > Carmen > > On Feb 3, 2008 5:01 PM, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good afternoon, > > > > For four weeks, I have been soaking mopani wood > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1256 - Release Date: 2/2/2008 1:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25670	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Good web site for fish food and aquriums maintenance

I've used and recommend the following: http://www.MarineDepot.com http://www.BigAlsOnline.com http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com http://www.PetsMart.com With PetsMart.com, I most often print out the online price and then go to my local store where they will match the online pricing for the same item. I've also ordered from the online site when the local store doesn't carry the item I'm looking for. I usually save 40-50% off the shelf price. Another site I've read good things about is ThatFishPlace.com Since you are new to the hobby, go to my blog and read over the page "A to Z of fish keeping" and take the online tutorials that I have linked there. Come back here and ask lots of questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of weiyuansun Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 6:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Good web site for fish food and aquriums maintenance Hello, I am in USA, and my kids just start for fish tank_20 Gallon. Would anyone please help/pass a good web site for Good price of fish food and aquriums maintenance? Thanks, Yuans No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1256 - Release Date: 2/2/2008 1:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25671	From: andrewhall999	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Juwel Users Forum

Have you got a Jwel tank? Are you thinking about buying one? What do you think about Juwel products? What is good about them? What ought to be improved? New forum needs your views! http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/juwelusersforum/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25672	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Juwel Users Forum

I don't own a Juwel so I won't be joining your group but the only thing I remember "bad" about them is the built in filter system in the back corner. In another forum, a while back, we had a member who was having all kinds of water quality issues and fish diseases and deaths and we finally tracked it down to an excessive amount of mulm that had built up in that corner filter and she had to take it out. I guess if you did a good job of vacuuming out all of the mulm using a small hose when doing gravel vacuuming, it could keep it from being a major issue but she was never told of this problem so it had built up to serious levels. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andrewhall999 Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 7:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Juwel Users Forum Have you got a Jwel tank? Are you thinking about buying one? What do you think about Juwel products? What is good about them? What ought to be improved? New forum needs your views! http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/juwelusersforum/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/juwelusersforum/> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1256 - Release Date: 2/2/2008 1:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25673	From: jules27au	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Community Fish Tank - Suggestions Please

Hi, My local aquarium has agreed to swap my two fist size silver dollars (to place in a display tank) for any other fish I care to have. So that I can have an easy to care for, appealing looking tank, can I have some suggestions please? FYI - I have a 65 litre up-right hexagonal tank & am happy to spend around 15-20 mins a day on looking after it. Water temp is constant at 26 degrees & yes I do regular testing of the water. Cheers Jules

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25674	From: Peaches	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots

I have two blood parrot fish myself named Gizmo and Gadget. I love them very much. I can see them easily and they love to come and "talk" to me. Gadget will try to sit in my hand to be hand fed if I will let him. I found a site all about them on the web awhile back www.parrotcichlid.com I don't know what I would do if something happened to them. They are so trusting of me. Thanks, Peaches -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots > Thanks to everyone that replied. I understand that they are hybrids and that they are "unnatural" but they happen to be a fish that I really like. I didn't the first time that I saw them but I came to realize that they are very active, personable, funny fish. I understand being passionate about what you love, I just felt a little cornered by the responses that I got. If I were to breed, it would be mainly for myself. I do not belong to an aquarium society, although I know there is one in Pittsburgh. I do have enough fish keeping friends that I could find suitable homes for them. (I also work part time at a store that specializes in freshwater and saltwater fish, demand for the blood parrots in this area is pretty good so I could always give them to the store.) As far as the Convict "downfall" of having lots of babies, I mean that if the person wasn't planning on breeding so she wasn't shocked at how very, very prolific cichlids are...If he/she planned on breeding, it's a great fish to start with. Convicts were my first cichlids. I am currently keeping rainbow fish but have had various South American cichlids in the past and I find myself missing them. Now, if anyone has any websites or books they would recommend for rainbows (that I will not even attempt to breed, they seem like a very tedious fish to breed.)or even any that are available in the fish trade that you think I should check out, I would appreciate that. So far I have: Turquoise, Bosemani, Red Iraim, Axelrods, Australian, preacox, and some that I don't know the name of. I was told they are pretty new in the fish trade, the associate couldn't find the shipment forms but he said he thought they were "zig zag" rainbows or something like that. Thanks everyone. jenn > In reply to your request for more information on these fish, all's I > can say is for you to please refer back what you wrote in your very > next post to someone using a Group Site name of "in_my_mind" > (unfortunately they chose not to sign it), when they were looking for > an identification for their Convict Cichlids. You wrote: "A DOWNFALL > is that you end up with tons of fish." Please consider that for a > moment, when applying that to what you're considering. > > At best, Blood Parrots are popular with only a very small portion of > Aquarium keepers (I can't call them "aquarists"), so for starters, its > going to be very difficult in getting rid of most of them. Secondly, > this hobby does not need any additional "mongrel" fish; keeping fish > species pure and as close to their natural counterparts in the wild is > so much more desirable and rewarding. Since you appear to have some > experience with Cichlids, I'd recommend trying to breed a species > (perhaps Severum, since you mentioned them) which you've also been > interested in; one that you haven't bred before, as you'll find that > the challenge is well worth it when you succeed. Best of Luck, Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@> wrote: > > > > Hi All! > > > > I was wondering if anyone had attempted to breed for blood parrot > > cichlids? My main question would be does it matter which parent fish, > > the Red Devil or Gold Severum, is the male or the female? I have > > past experience breeding everything from live bearers to other > cichlids. > > > > > > Any info would be greatly appreciated! > > > > Jenn > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links __________ NOD32 2845 (20080202) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25675	From: Weiyuan Sun	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Good web site for fish food and aquriums maintenance

Thanks for the information that help a lot. Thanks, yuans "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I've used and recommend the following: http://www.MarineDepot.com http://www.BigAlsOnline.com http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com http://www.PetsMart.com With PetsMart.com, I most often print out the online price and then go to my local store where they will match the online pricing for the same item. I've also ordered from the online site when the local store doesn't carry the item I'm looking for. I usually save 40-50% off the shelf price. Another site I've read good things about is ThatFishPlace.com Since you are new to the hobby, go to my blog and read over the page "A to Z of fish keeping" and take the online tutorials that I have linked there. Come back here and ask lots of questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of weiyuansun Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 6:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Good web site for fish food and aquriums maintenance Hello, I am in USA, and my kids just start for fish tank_20 Gallon. Would anyone please help/pass a good web site for Good price of fish food and aquriums maintenance? Thanks, Yuans No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1256 - Release Date: 2/2/2008 1:50 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25676	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm thinking 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding pair of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 gal. tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't plan to keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give them away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions about setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple questions about my convicts as well. Here they are: 1. My new tank is hexogonal - not easy to find a hood for. It has metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a hood? 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids that would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is this a good idea? 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two for this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What if I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for this size tank? 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have many great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new ones for the new tank? 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? And should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the new tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from danger from the other fish? 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want more convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good choices? What other options are there, and how many should I have? I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really appreciate any input you have! TIA, Cheryl :D

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25677	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

To find out your exact gallon volume, take the three dimensions, HxWxD= _____ divided by 231 = ____ Gallons. If you take the inside dimensions, you'll get more accurate but the outside dimensions will give you a number close enough. 1. Oops.. just read that your new tank is a hex so forget that formula since it only works for square or rectangular tanks but this page http://animal-world.com/encyclo/information/calculate.htm has a built in calculator for tanks including hex tanks... about 1/3 way down on the page. 2. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_nigrofasciatum.html has a section on suggested species compatibility (SC) but depending on the size of your tank, you will be limited in what you can have. An Oscar or common pleco are out since a hex tank does not have a lot of surface area or bottom area so you will have limited territory and cichlids like their space... plus Oscars and common plecos get BIG and need BIG tanks... 75G+... with lots of filtration and surface area to provide for adequate gas exchange. 3. First you need to know how big the tank is and what kind of fish you will keep, then you can work on adequate filtration. I'm not sure that sponge filters are the recommended filtration for bigger fish which put out a lot more waste. You should consider a canister filter (I use the Rena Filstar I and III and they are competitively priced and decent quality) or a good HOB with a big reservoir like an AquaClear. I guess if you did the sponge filters but powered them with a powerhead, that would work also but many people equate a sponge filter with being powered by an air pump. 4. I've never owned convicts but most cichlids are rock/cave dwellers and burrow in substrate so they typically tear up planted tanks. Here is a snip from the mongabay profile I linked above. "Use a cover of floating plants and provide plenty of hiding places with over-turned flower pots, driftwood, roots, caves, and rocks. This cichlid eats plants and burrows in the gravel." 5. & 6. The profile also lists suitable tankmates in the SC section. Others should chime in on when and how to move the fry. LAST BUT NOT LEAST... WOOOO HOOOOOO.. the Manning brothers (from New Orleans) have won the past two Super Bowl's. Maybe my Saints will get to one sometime in my lifetime. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of my_cycling Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm thinking 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding pair of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 gal. tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't plan to keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give them away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions about setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple questions about my convicts as well. Here they are: 1. My new tank is hexogonal - not easy to find a hood for. It has metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a hood? 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids that would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is this a good idea? 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two for this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What if I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for this size tank? 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have many great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new ones for the new tank? 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? And should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the new tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from danger from the other fish? 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want more convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good choices? What other options are there, and how many should I have? I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really appreciate any input you have! TIA, Cheryl :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1256 - Release Date: 2/2/2008 1:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25678	From: William	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Community Fish Tank - Suggestions Please

I found a conversion chart ant your 65 liters equals 16.9 gallons. That is not a very large for much of anything. And with not much floor space it cuts down even more for the types of fish that should be keep in a tank like that. You might get away with a pair of angelfish, but that is even small for them(recommended is 20 gallons per pair).Maybe you could get some of the dwarf freshwater puffers. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jules27au" <jules27au@...> wrote: > > > Hi, > > My local aquarium has agreed to swap my two fist size silver dollars > (to place in a display tank) for any other fish I care to have. > > So that I can have an easy to care for, appealing looking tank, can I > have some suggestions please? FYI - I have a 65 litre up-right > hexagonal tank & am happy to spend around 15-20 mins a day on looking > after it. > > Water temp is constant at 26 degrees & yes I do regular testing of the > water. > > Cheers > > Jules >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25679	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...

Well, this tank was my idea, but technically it was given to my mom...and she has been the one paying for almost everything for it/in it, so today she convinced me to get more fish. We did not replace the single neon tetra. Instead we added 4 danioes that are neon colors (orangey/pink and yellowish/orange) and a silver something (sorry, bad memory - I think it's a molly). So, I now have 2 tetras, 1 female betta, 1 (possibly) silver molly, and 4 neon colored danioes. The silver one is bigger than the betta, and the neon danioes are a bit bigger than the tetras, so I might be ok. Especially if it is a dominance/territorial thing. I know I may sound like an idiot for adding more fish, but please understand I am not the only one making decisions here. Oh and we got some live plants to put in there. A couple taller ones and a couple not so tall ones. We did that, and added some beneficial bacteria something (again, bad memory, sorry) because they tested the water (they being Petsmart) and said the ammonia was a little high and the ph was a little high (I think, she said the ph was off, but didn't elaborate). We're going to see what happens next. If fish keep dying, we will stop getting more and maybe start all over and add all the crap you're supposed to and keep whatever fish are left for a couple months and see if we can try again then. thanks, anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25680	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...

> Did you fishless cycle the tank first? No, we set it all up and let it sit 2 days, added a bottle of beneficial bacteria and the female betta, waited 2 days, added the 3 tetras, and it went fine for 4-5 days. Then we lost 1 tetra. Replaced it the next day. Lost the replacement tetra 2 days later (today). > If you don't know what that means, > then you are cycling with fish and you need to be testing your > ammonia/nitrite levels on a daily basis I don't have a way to test daily, but the test today showed ammonia being a little high, and ph "off" (whatever she meant by that, I don't know). And that the nitrite/nitrate levels were fine. > and doing 25% PWC's (partial water > changes) as needed to keep the levels below 1.0ppm and preferably below > 0.5ppm until the tank fully completes the nitrogen cycle... anywhere from > 2-8 weeks. If I can't tell what the levels are, how would I know if I need to do that? > What size tank do you currently have, how long has it been set up, > etc. We think it's about 10 gallons. It has been set up for about 10 or 11 days now. Today I was convinced to add more beneficial bacteria (becuase ammonia is a little high, so says the Petsmart lady who tested my water sample), and 5 more fish. We did not replace the tetra that died, rather added what I think is a silver something molly or platy or something like that (yes, my memory IS that bad), and 4 neon colored danioes. So the list now is, 1 female betta, 2 neon tetras, 4 neon colored danioes, and 1 silver something (looks kinda white) fish. If these all survive, I will only add a chinese algae eater to this. I don't know if that is all I did, please check the reply I sent to the other person who replied to my post...I might have said something there that I forgot to say here. Also, can I add water conditioner right now? It says it is for making tap water safe. To add x amount per gallon "when I add water" maybe I should add it now, just to help everything get balanced out sooner for the fish? thanks, anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25681	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...

You had a high ammonia reading because your tank is not cycled yet (the nitrogen cycle). You are not the idiot. The IDIOTS at Pet-not-so-smart should never have sold you more fish. You should bring them back and get your money back for the fish and the JUNK "bacteria" they sold you unless it was BioSpira, which isn't junk. If you choose to keep all of the fish and put them through the cycling process, you would need to immediately buy a master test kit. Steve out here recommends one brand.. I think Hagen... but it's hard to find. I know that PetsMart sells the API Freshwater Master Test Kit which is adequate for most people. If you print out the online page and bring it with you, they will match the price and you will save nearly 50% off the shelf price. Do this whenever you buy stuff from PetsMart. You would need to start testing your water daily and do 25% PWC's whenever your ammonia or nitrite get up to the 1.0ppm level. If they are already over that level, then you should do a series of 25% PWC's, one every two hours until the levels are down to the 0.5ppm level. Keep up the daily testing and necessary PWC's until your tank is fully cycled. This will be when your ammonia and nitrite stay at 0.0ppm and then your nitrate level will slowly rise. Whenever it gets over 30ppm, do a 25% PWC. Or do a PWC on a weekly or bi-weekly basis depending on the stocking level of your tank. Do not wait a month or longer between PWC's like some places say. That's a little too long for your fish to be swimming around in polluted water. Dilution is the solution to pollution. This is what a PWC does... dilutes the pollution. Go to my blog and read over my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. The "beneficial bacteria" they sold you was a waste of your money unless it was BioSpira which I know they do not sell. BioSpira is the only bacteria in a bottle that works as advertised but it must be kept refrigerated throughout the shipping and storage process and it is best used on a new tank without fish and then you can add fish the next day and the tank will be nearly 100% cycled. You should bring back any JUNK chemicals or additives they sold you except for a basic tap water dechlor product which usually has an additive for heavy metals that may be in your tap water. I use API's but there are other low priced alternatives. Don't get all the stress-this or slime-that type products... that just turns your tank into a chemical cess pool. The live plants are good. The "neon" danios they sold you were probably glofish which are genetically enhanced zebra danio's so they are just regular zebra danio's with a pigmentation gene added to the eggs to make them into the "glo" colors. I don't have an opinion on this process since it does not harm the fish like dyeing or tattooing does. The world has been doing genetic enhancements to plants and animals (mainly food stuff) for years and so far we don't have an abundance of three-headed lizards running around and science learns a tremendous amount of information from genetic testing that will one day save the world from the things like cancer... I hope before I ever succumb to it. ;-) The zebra danios are a schooling fish also and should be in schools of 6 or more with 4 females and 2 males. As far as your pH, DO NOT ADD ANYTHING they might have sold you that alters the pH. The pH is high because of the ammonia and cycling issues you are having. You need these numbers so I can give you more info. If your pH is in the 8.0 range, then any ammonia in your tank can be toxic. If your pH is in the 7.0 range, then ammonia is less toxic but still needs to be kept down below 1.0ppm. I don't recall what size tank you have so I'm not sure if your tank can handle the proper number of fish to fill out the schools of danios, neons and tetras so you would need to give us more info. PLEASE, PLEASE COME OUT HERE AND ASK FOR ADVICE BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE TO YOUR TANK. DO NOT LISTEN TO THE IDIOTS AT PET-NOT-SO-SMART. FEEL FREE TO PRINT THIS AND SHOW IT TO THE MANAGER AT THE STORE WHEN ASKING FOR YOUR REFUNDS ON ALL THE JUNK THEY SOLD YOU AND FOR THE FISH. YOU COULD CONTINUE TO TRY AND CYCLE WITH ALL THE FISH YOU HAVE BUT YOU WILL BE PERMANENTLY INJURING THEM BY PUTTING THEM THROUGH THE CYCLING PROCESS AND THAT WILL ROB THEM OF SOME OF THEIR LIFESPAN OR ALL OF IT IF THEY DIE DURING THE CYCLING PROCESS. And yes, I typed in CAPS because I was literally screaming at the Pet-not-so-smart IDIOTS if you choose to print my reply to show them. If the manager tries to not give you a refund, tell him you will complain to the BBB, the Chamber of Commerce, the local humane shelter, etc., etc., but I don't think they will contest your refund. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 11:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think... Well, this tank was my idea, but technically it was given to my mom...and she has been the one paying for almost everything for it/in it, so today she convinced me to get more fish. We did not replace the single neon tetra. Instead we added 4 danioes that are neon colors (orangey/pink and yellowish/orange) and a silver something (sorry, bad memory - I think it's a molly). So, I now have 2 tetras, 1 female betta, 1 (possibly) silver molly, and 4 neon colored danioes. The silver one is bigger than the betta, and the neon danioes are a bit bigger than the tetras, so I might be ok. Especially if it is a dominance/territorial thing. I know I may sound like an idiot for adding more fish, but please understand I am not the only one making decisions here. Oh and we got some live plants to put in there. A couple taller ones and a couple not so tall ones. We did that, and added some beneficial bacteria something (again, bad memory, sorry) because they tested the water (they being Petsmart) and said the ammonia was a little high and the ph was a little high (I think, she said the ph was off, but didn't elaborate). We're going to see what happens next. If fish keep dying, we will stop getting more and maybe start all over and add all the crap you're supposed to and keep whatever fish are left for a couple months and see if we can try again then. thanks, anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1257 - Release Date: 2/3/2008 5:49 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25682	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Lenny, Thanks a lot for your quick reply. Unfortunately I can't get a break down of the size of my tank after all from the site you linked because it is designed to measure a hexagonal tank where all 6 sides are equal. My tanks sides are not equal, the 2 sides are equal, the two corners are equal, the back is long, and the front is short. So there are 4 different side lengths, if that makes any sense ____ | | \____/ It's kind of shaped like that (that's the best drawing job I can do, lol). We'll just have to see how big it is when we fill it. I'm thinking 55, based on how full it was when I put 5 gallons of water in to rinse it out. Anyway, I thought there were plecos that were smaller. We have one in our 10 gal. tank which we've had for awhile now and he's hardly grown at all. What kind of algae eaters, tank cleaners would you recommend? Oh, and does anyone know where to locate 3M Colorquartz? Do most pool supply stores carry it? Thanks again for the reply! Cheryl :D

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25683	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...

If by Steve, you mean me, the kit I recommend is AquaTru distributed by Kordon. By far the best kit out there to use and to read. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think... You had a high ammonia reading because your tank is not cycled yet (the nitrogen cycle). You are not the idiot. The IDIOTS at Pet-not-so-smart should never have sold you more fish. You should bring them back and get your money back for the fish and the JUNK "bacteria" they sold you unless it was BioSpira, which isn't junk. If you choose to keep all of the fish and put them through the cycling process, you would need to immediately buy a master test kit. Steve out here recommends one brand.. I think Hagen... but it's hard to find. I know that PetsMart sells the API Freshwater Master Test Kit which is adequate for most people. If you print out the online page and bring it with you, they will match the price and you will save nearly 50% off the shelf price. Do this whenever you buy stuff from PetsMart. You would need to start testing your water daily and do 25% PWC's whenever your ammonia or nitrite get up to the 1.0ppm level. If they are already over that level, then you should do a series of 25% PWC's, one every two hours until the levels are down to the 0.5ppm level. Keep up the daily testing and necessary PWC's until your tank is fully cycled. This will be when your ammonia and nitrite stay at 0.0ppm and then your nitrate level will slowly rise. Whenever it gets over 30ppm, do a 25% PWC. Or do a PWC on a weekly or bi-weekly basis depending on the stocking level of your tank. Do not wait a month or longer between PWC's like some places say. That's a little too long for your fish to be swimming around in polluted water. Dilution is the solution to pollution. This is what a PWC does... dilutes the pollution. Go to my blog and read over my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. The "beneficial bacteria" they sold you was a waste of your money unless it was BioSpira which I know they do not sell. BioSpira is the only bacteria in a bottle that works as advertised but it must be kept refrigerated throughout the shipping and storage process and it is best used on a new tank without fish and then you can add fish the next day and the tank will be nearly 100% cycled. You should bring back any JUNK chemicals or additives they sold you except for a basic tap water dechlor product which usually has an additive for heavy metals that may be in your tap water. I use API's but there are other low priced alternatives. Don't get all the stress-this or slime-that type products... that just turns your tank into a chemical cess pool. The live plants are good. The "neon" danios they sold you were probably glofish which are genetically enhanced zebra danio's so they are just regular zebra danio's with a pigmentation gene added to the eggs to make them into the "glo" colors. I don't have an opinion on this process since it does not harm the fish like dyeing or tattooing does. The world has been doing genetic enhancements to plants and animals (mainly food stuff) for years and so far we don't have an abundance of three-headed lizards running around and science learns a tremendous amount of information from genetic testing that will one day save the world from the things like cancer... I hope before I ever succumb to it. ;-) The zebra danios are a schooling fish also and should be in schools of 6 or more with 4 females and 2 males. As far as your pH, DO NOT ADD ANYTHING they might have sold you that alters the pH. The pH is high because of the ammonia and cycling issues you are having. You need these numbers so I can give you more info. If your pH is in the 8.0 range, then any ammonia in your tank can be toxic. If your pH is in the 7.0 range, then ammonia is less toxic but still needs to be kept down below 1.0ppm. I don't recall what size tank you have so I'm not sure if your tank can handle the proper number of fish to fill out the schools of danios, neons and tetras so you would need to give us more info. PLEASE, PLEASE COME OUT HERE AND ASK FOR ADVICE BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE TO YOUR TANK. DO NOT LISTEN TO THE IDIOTS AT PET-NOT-SO-SMART. FEEL FREE TO PRINT THIS AND SHOW IT TO THE MANAGER AT THE STORE WHEN ASKING FOR YOUR REFUNDS ON ALL THE JUNK THEY SOLD YOU AND FOR THE FISH. YOU COULD CONTINUE TO TRY AND CYCLE WITH ALL THE FISH YOU HAVE BUT YOU WILL BE PERMANENTLY INJURING THEM BY PUTTING THEM THROUGH THE CYCLING PROCESS AND THAT WILL ROB THEM OF SOME OF THEIR LIFESPAN OR ALL OF IT IF THEY DIE DURING THE CYCLING PROCESS. And yes, I typed in CAPS because I was literally screaming at the Pet-not-so-smart IDIOTS if you choose to print my reply to show them. If the manager tries to not give you a refund, tell him you will complain to the BBB, the Chamber of Commerce, the local humane shelter, etc., etc., but I don't think they will contest your refund. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 11:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think... Well, this tank was my idea, but technically it was given to my mom...and she has been the one paying for almost everything for it/in it, so today she convinced me to get more fish. We did not replace the single neon tetra. Instead we added 4 danioes that are neon colors (orangey/pink and yellowish/orange) and a silver something (sorry, bad memory - I think it's a molly). So, I now have 2 tetras, 1 female betta, 1 (possibly) silver molly, and 4 neon colored danioes. The silver one is bigger than the betta, and the neon danioes are a bit bigger than the tetras, so I might be ok. Especially if it is a dominance/territorial thing. I know I may sound like an idiot for adding more fish, but please understand I am not the only one making decisions here. Oh and we got some live plants to put in there. A couple taller ones and a couple not so tall ones. We did that, and added some beneficial bacteria something (again, bad memory, sorry) because they tested the water (they being Petsmart) and said the ammonia was a little high and the ph was a little high (I think, she said the ph was off, but didn't elaborate). We're going to see what happens next. If fish keep dying, we will stop getting more and maybe start all over and add all the crap you're supposed to and keep whatever fish are left for a couple months and see if we can try again then. thanks, anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1257 - Release Date: 2/3/2008 5:49 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. *´Ż`*.¸¸.><((((ş>.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸><((((ş> ¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸<ş((((><¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..<ş((((><*´Ż`*.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25684	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Take the measurement of the length of the back, the height of the tank, and the distance from the front to the back in the middle of the tank (not the corners)... since its nearly a rectangle, you could use the rectangle formula I gave u which would be a little more and then you would have to deduct a gallon or two for each missing "corner" in the front. Or if you want to get really technical and exact, give me the above three dimensions and the dimensions of the missing triangles on each front corner and I could figure out the exact volume of each triangle and then we would know exactly how much to deduct from the rectangular volume measurement. For it to be a 55G tank, it would have to be 36" to 48" long on the back, at least 12" from front to back in the middle and then 12" to 18" high. But if you give me the measurements I could figure it out precisely. There are plecos that are smaller than the common pleco but even they couldn't fit in a 10G tank. You are stunting yours by keeping it in that undersized tank... that's why it's not growing. Common plecos (called common since they are the most common sold at fish stores) should grow to 18"+ and live around 20 years but most don't make it that long due to being stunted in undersized tanks during their juvenile years. Stunting causes serious stress issues to fish and causes them premature deaths. Fish are just like children... they need their best environment and diet during their developmental months and years and this is usually the time when people put them in undersized tanks, rather than the proper sized tank, thinking they'll get a bigger tank as the fish grow but it's a catch-22 since the fish won't grow in the undersized tank and end up dying an early death due to diseases caused by the stress of the stunting effect so the people never do get the bigger tank that they said they would get... and then they get more fish and the cycle continues. It is so important to start fish off in the proper sized tank to give them their best chances. Besides cycling issues, stunting caused by overstocking a tank or putting big fish in an undersize tank are probably the leading cause of fish disease and premature deaths. I'm not fussing at you, just trying to explain and stress how important these issues are. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of my_cycling Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 2:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice Lenny, Thanks a lot for your quick reply. Unfortunately I can't get a break down of the size of my tank after all from the site you linked because it is designed to measure a hexagonal tank where all 6 sides are equal. My tanks sides are not equal, the 2 sides are equal, the two corners are equal, the back is long, and the front is short. So there are 4 different side lengths, if that makes any sense ____ | | \____/ It's kind of shaped like that (that's the best drawing job I can do, lol). We'll just have to see how big it is when we fill it. I'm thinking 55, based on how full it was when I put 5 gallons of water in to rinse it out. Anyway, I thought there were plecos that were smaller. We have one in our 10 gal. tank which we've had for awhile now and he's hardly grown at all. What kind of algae eaters, tank cleaners would you recommend? Oh, and does anyone know where to locate 3M Colorquartz? Do most pool supply stores carry it? Thanks again for the reply! Cheryl :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1257 - Release Date: 2/3/2008 5:49 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25685	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...

Yep... I should have said \\Steve// LOL I didn't think it was Hagen but I couldn't recall the exact name but I still haven't found it at any of my local shops or chain stores. I'll probably order it off the net when I'm due for a new master test kit. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think... If by Steve, you mean me, the kit I recommend is AquaTru distributed by Kordon. By far the best kit out there to use and to read. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think... You had a high ammonia reading because your tank is not cycled yet (the nitrogen cycle). You are not the idiot. The IDIOTS at Pet-not-so-smart should never have sold you more fish. You should bring them back and get your money back for the fish and the JUNK "bacteria" they sold you unless it was BioSpira, which isn't junk. If you choose to keep all of the fish and put them through the cycling process, you would need to immediately buy a master test kit. Steve out here recommends one brand.. I think Hagen... but it's hard to find. I know that PetsMart sells the API Freshwater Master Test Kit which is adequate for most people. If you print out the online page and bring it with you, they will match the price and you will save nearly 50% off the shelf price. Do this whenever you buy stuff from PetsMart. You would need to start testing your water daily and do 25% PWC's whenever your ammonia or nitrite get up to the 1.0ppm level. If they are already over that level, then you should do a series of 25% PWC's, one every two hours until the levels are down to the 0.5ppm level. Keep up the daily testing and necessary PWC's until your tank is fully cycled. This will be when your ammonia and nitrite stay at 0.0ppm and then your nitrate level will slowly rise. Whenever it gets over 30ppm, do a 25% PWC. Or do a PWC on a weekly or bi-weekly basis depending on the stocking level of your tank. Do not wait a month or longer between PWC's like some places say. That's a little too long for your fish to be swimming around in polluted water. Dilution is the solution to pollution. This is what a PWC does... dilutes the pollution. Go to my blog and read over my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. The "beneficial bacteria" they sold you was a waste of your money unless it was BioSpira which I know they do not sell. BioSpira is the only bacteria in a bottle that works as advertised but it must be kept refrigerated throughout the shipping and storage process and it is best used on a new tank without fish and then you can add fish the next day and the tank will be nearly 100% cycled. You should bring back any JUNK chemicals or additives they sold you except for a basic tap water dechlor product which usually has an additive for heavy metals that may be in your tap water. I use API's but there are other low priced alternatives. Don't get all the stress-this or slime-that type products... that just turns your tank into a chemical cess pool. The live plants are good. The "neon" danios they sold you were probably glofish which are genetically enhanced zebra danio's so they are just regular zebra danio's with a pigmentation gene added to the eggs to make them into the "glo" colors. I don't have an opinion on this process since it does not harm the fish like dyeing or tattooing does. The world has been doing genetic enhancements to plants and animals (mainly food stuff) for years and so far we don't have an abundance of three-headed lizards running around and science learns a tremendous amount of information from genetic testing that will one day save the world from the things like cancer... I hope before I ever succumb to it. ;-) The zebra danios are a schooling fish also and should be in schools of 6 or more with 4 females and 2 males. As far as your pH, DO NOT ADD ANYTHING they might have sold you that alters the pH. The pH is high because of the ammonia and cycling issues you are having. You need these numbers so I can give you more info. If your pH is in the 8.0 range, then any ammonia in your tank can be toxic. If your pH is in the 7.0 range, then ammonia is less toxic but still needs to be kept down below 1.0ppm. I don't recall what size tank you have so I'm not sure if your tank can handle the proper number of fish to fill out the schools of danios, neons and tetras so you would need to give us more info. PLEASE, PLEASE COME OUT HERE AND ASK FOR ADVICE BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE TO YOUR TANK. DO NOT LISTEN TO THE IDIOTS AT PET-NOT-SO-SMART. FEEL FREE TO PRINT THIS AND SHOW IT TO THE MANAGER AT THE STORE WHEN ASKING FOR YOUR REFUNDS ON ALL THE JUNK THEY SOLD YOU AND FOR THE FISH. YOU COULD CONTINUE TO TRY AND CYCLE WITH ALL THE FISH YOU HAVE BUT YOU WILL BE PERMANENTLY INJURING THEM BY PUTTING THEM THROUGH THE CYCLING PROCESS AND THAT WILL ROB THEM OF SOME OF THEIR LIFESPAN OR ALL OF IT IF THEY DIE DURING THE CYCLING PROCESS. And yes, I typed in CAPS because I was literally screaming at the Pet-not-so-smart IDIOTS if you choose to print my reply to show them. If the manager tries to not give you a refund, tell him you will complain to the BBB, the Chamber of Commerce, the local humane shelter, etc., etc., but I don't think they will contest your refund. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 11:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think... Well, this tank was my idea, but technically it was given to my mom...and she has been the one paying for almost everything for it/in it, so today she convinced me to get more fish. We did not replace the single neon tetra. Instead we added 4 danioes that are neon colors (orangey/pink and yellowish/orange) and a silver something (sorry, bad memory - I think it's a molly). So, I now have 2 tetras, 1 female betta, 1 (possibly) silver molly, and 4 neon colored danioes. The silver one is bigger than the betta, and the neon danioes are a bit bigger than the tetras, so I might be ok. Especially if it is a dominance/territorial thing. I know I may sound like an idiot for adding more fish, but please understand I am not the only one making decisions here. Oh and we got some live plants to put in there. A couple taller ones and a couple not so tall ones. We did that, and added some beneficial bacteria something (again, bad memory, sorry) because they tested the water (they being Petsmart) and said the ammonia was a little high and the ph was a little high (I think, she said the ph was off, but didn't elaborate). We're going to see what happens next. If fish keep dying, we will stop getting more and maybe start all over and add all the crap you're supposed to and keep whatever fish are left for a couple months and see if we can try again then. thanks, anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1257 - Release Date: 2/3/2008 5:49 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25686	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I need advice/info, I think...

Checking along with this thread, I note you're already receiving some excellent information. As I get into your posts I hoping, while you may be a beginner (as it would appear), that you have a good interest in these fish and an inclination to want to work with them to keep them properly. I mention that only as I gather from some of your statements that there seems to be some interest lacking for you to be referring to your fish as "4 neon colored Danios," and "silver something" and your plants as "a couple taller ones and a couple not so tall." If you don't know the names for these fish and plants, and want to learn, I'd recommend your (or your mom) investing in a good reference book on the hobby. It can only add to your pleasure and to your knowledge of how to keep them. BTW, Molly's, Danio's and Tetra's are not territorial, although they all need their preferred swimming niche (strata). While I can't fault you in the least for accepting the advice of Pet- not-so Smart (how would you know otherwise), if you have the interest to want to get more involved with keeping your fish, I'd also recommend your buying a several smaller or one large (master) test kit (s) to test the water yourself rather than relying on the pet shop. They're easy to use and are not that expensive -- and you be able to get your reading anytime you need them. As for adding water conditioner now -- this would be quite a bit after the fact, since they're designed to make the water safe (before adding the fish)! Know to, as has also been pointed out, that water conditioners come in many formulas. You most probably need one only designed to remove the chloramines (poisonous to fish) that your water company is adding. With the beneficial bacteria additive, while your stating it came in a bottle might indicate it was the functional (live) type -- BioSpira -- the fact that your ammonia is rising is telling you that whatever you purchased is not working and can't be alive. If by chance it was BioSpira (which I too doubt), know that it has a limited "shelf life" and needs to be stored in a refrigerator at your LFS (local fish store). If it doesn't come like that, its useless. A remark I believe you made in a previous post about if fish keep dying; "maybe start over and add all the crap you're supposed to . . and see if we can try again." While its commendable to have the attitude of re-trying this if you don't succeed this time, this hobby should not be looked upon as being trial & error and the fish should not be considered expendable, especially since there's a good deal of literature out there on them if one wants to learn about them first. So, don't rely on just one source (pet shop), we're here for you all the time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Anndrea" <anndreae@...> wrote: > > > Did you fishless cycle the tank first? > > No, we set it all up and let it sit 2 days, added a bottle of > beneficial bacteria and the female betta, waited 2 days, added the 3 > tetras, and it went fine for 4-5 days. Then we lost 1 tetra. > Replaced it the next day. Lost the replacement tetra 2 days later > (today). > > > > If you don't know what that means, > > then you are cycling with fish and you need to be testing your > > ammonia/nitrite levels on a daily basis > > I don't have a way to test daily, but the test today showed ammonia > being a little high, and ph "off" (whatever she meant by that, I > don't know). And that the nitrite/nitrate levels were fine. > > > > and doing 25% PWC's (partial water > > changes) as needed to keep the levels below 1.0ppm and preferably > below > > 0.5ppm until the tank fully completes the nitrogen cycle... > anywhere from > > 2-8 weeks. > > If I can't tell what the levels are, how would I know if I need to > do that? > > > > What size tank do you currently have, how long has it been set up, > > etc. > > We think it's about 10 gallons. It has been set up for about 10 or > 11 days now. > > Today I was convinced to add more beneficial bacteria (becuase > ammonia is a little high, so says the Petsmart lady who tested my > water sample), and 5 more fish. We did not replace the tetra that > died, rather added what I think is a silver something molly or platy > or something like that (yes, my memory IS that bad), and 4 neon > colored danioes. So the list now is, 1 female betta, 2 neon tetras, > 4 neon colored danioes, and 1 silver something (looks kinda white) > fish. If these all survive, I will only add a chinese algae eater to > this. > > I don't know if that is all I did, please check the reply I sent to > the other person who replied to my post...I might have said > something there that I forgot to say here. > > Also, can I add water conditioner right now? It says it is for > making tap water safe. To add x amount per gallon "when I add water" > maybe I should add it now, just to help everything get balanced out > sooner for the fish? > > thanks, > anndrea >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25687	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Community Fish Tank - Suggestions Please

If you dont mind not alot of fish, a pair of german rams would be fun in there. They do not get real large, but cichlids are always fun. --- William <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > I found a conversion chart ant your 65 liters equals > 16.9 gallons. > That is not a very large for much of anything. And > with not much > floor space it cuts down even more for the types of > fish that should > be keep in a tank like that. You might get away with > a pair of > angelfish, but that is even small for > them(recommended is 20 gallons > per pair).Maybe you could get some of the dwarf > freshwater puffers. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jules27au" > <jules27au@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > My local aquarium has agreed to swap my two fist > size silver > dollars > > (to place in a display tank) for any other fish I > care to have. > > > > So that I can have an easy to care for, appealing > looking tank, can > I > > have some suggestions please? FYI - I have a 65 > litre up-right > > hexagonal tank & am happy to spend around 15-20 > mins a day on > looking > > after it. > > > > Water temp is constant at 26 degrees & yes I do > regular testing of > the > > water. > > > > Cheers > > > > Jules > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25688	From: ED	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

So sorry to hear about your loss. Not a fish but I lost one of my catahoula leopards(hunting dogs) this weekend. I don't use them for hunting just plain ol' loving. We name our fish like all our animals and love them just as much. Again condolences from the heart. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kate" <k8hardy@...> wrote: > > Well I stayed at my boyfriend's house last night and when I came home > to my condo this morning my place was over 100 degrees and every single > fish, shrimp and dart frog was dead. The poor fish and shrimp were > boiled to death. I am SO upset. I cried for an hour. I have radiant > heat/cooling and apparently the valve got stuck. My cats almost died > too. This is terrible! > Kate >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25689	From: ED	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife

They are so cool. Ours was loosing color in the mornings. Checked heater and filters. Oooops! Needed water change. Now is doing fine with no color loss. They say they can get 24". I'm already working on a bigger tank. Our angels are getting so big they are going to need thier own tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gregg Bender" <greggb57@...> wrote: > > I have one, too. Over the years, I have managed to grow one to about 10 > inches. They are fun to watch and feed. As they get older, I add small > mealworms to their diet of frozen bloodworms and chopped earthworms. I've > only had one at a time, so I have no idea how they breed. > >    > Gregg Bender > Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. > www.nvsr.org > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25690	From: Zinfin	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Community Fish Tank - Suggestions Please

How about a group of smaller schooling fish like the varous kinds of rasboras, tetras or barbs? If you get barbs, don't plan on putting anything else in with them as they have a reputation for being nippy. -----Original Message----- From: "jules27au" <jules27au@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: 2/3/2008 7:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Community Fish Tank - Suggestions Please Hi, My local aquarium has agreed to swap my two fist size silver dollars (to place in a display tank) for any other fish I care to have. So that I can have an easy to care for, appealing looking tank, can I have some suggestions please? FYI - I have a 65 litre up-right hexagonal tank & am happy to spend around 15-20 mins a day on looking after it. Water temp is constant at 26 degrees & yes I do regular testing of the water. Cheers Jules

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25691	From: ED	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Giant salamander

Man I love NG They also have puzzles of YOUR SHOT pics online. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Helen Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > neat stuff! (My daughter totally freaked out thinking it was something I was looking at as a potential pet ;) I had to explain that they are for zoos only.) > > .......But life goes on and it gets better... and when it doesn't get better, there's always tequila. > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25692	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

Thanks so much for the condolences everyone. It means a lot to have people who understand my grief. So many people think you're odd if you get attached to fish. I even knew most of the shrimp by slight differences in their appearances and had names for a few of them. The Badis/Darios were a major upset and the dart frogs really got me down. Ugh! A few really great people have offered various shrimp and fish to me. I think it's just amazing how people will stand up to help when bad things happen and I just wanted you all to know how much it's appreciated!!! Thanks again! Kate ED <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: So sorry to hear about your loss. Not a fish but I lost one of my catahoula leopards(hunting dogs) this weekend. I don't use them for hunting just plain ol' loving. We name our fish like all our animals and love them just as much. Again condolences from the heart. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kate" <k8hardy@...> wrote: > > Well I stayed at my boyfriend's house last night and when I came home > to my condo this morning my place was over 100 degrees and every single > fish, shrimp and dart frog was dead. The poor fish and shrimp were > boiled to death. I am SO upset. I cried for an hour. I have radiant > heat/cooling and apparently the valve got stuck. My cats almost died > too. This is terrible! > Kate > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25693	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I have to vent

Ps. So sorry about your dog Ed! Catahoulas are very pretty. Kate ED <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: So sorry to hear about your loss. Not a fish but I lost one of my catahoula leopards(hunting dogs) this weekend. I don't use them for hunting just plain ol' loving. We name our fish like all our animals and love them just as much. Again condolences from the heart. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kate" <k8hardy@...> wrote: > > Well I stayed at my boyfriend's house last night and when I came home > to my condo this morning my place was over 100 degrees and every single > fish, shrimp and dart frog was dead. The poor fish and shrimp were > boiled to death. I am SO upset. I cried for an hour. I have radiant > heat/cooling and apparently the valve got stuck. My cats almost died > too. This is terrible! > Kate > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25694	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Hi Cheryl, I'll try to pick up from here on this: (1) As for a hood for your tank, there should be one available. Try Drs Foster & Smith (< DrsFosterSmith.com >) or That Fish Place (< www.thatfishplace.com >). You'll need to measure your Flat Back Hex tank to be able to tell them the size (to fit the hood). (2) As for the best substrate, probably #3 (or #2 if you prefer) commercial grade gravel is about as good as any, although I see you have 3M Colorquartz in mind, which is much smaller in size. The two on-line retailers mentioned above also carry aquarium gravel in many different colors, or you should be able to buy (or order) Clifford W. Estes aquarium gravel from your LFS, also in many different colors. (3) This has been given an answer -- we need to know the volume of your tank, or at least its dimensions. (4) Many Cichlids won't tolerate plants in their vicinity, as they prefer a clear vision of their territory to protect it. Its surprising that your Convict put up with them, but I suspect there were no plants nearby their spawning site. If you're still contemplating an Oscar, which may be doable depending on the tank size, know that they WILL NOT allow any plants to remain rooted. I wood leave your present tank planted if you're going to use it for other species, unless you're going to use that tank as a hospital/quarantine tank -- which everyone should have. In any case, why uproot well established plants unless you really need to. (5) Many Cichlids will not take kindly to being moved with their fry, although Convicts are one of those which are extremely protective of their progeny and may put up with it with no problem. What most often happens when interfering with a breeding pair of Cichlids and their fry is that they will eat them rather than have this "predator" (YOU, as they perceive this) consume them. In that way, they can use the nutrition to spawn again to start another brood where the present one would have been devoured by the predator -- or at least in the wild, and they think no differently in captivity when confronted with such a stress. I would not attempt it, but if you prefer, the best way to move the fry (if they're in a tight school) is to syphon them out into a recepticle (bucket, for instance) using a length of flexible clear plastic hose, which every hobbyist should have on hand (for various uses). Barring that, if they're swimming more loosely, you'll have to first remove the parents (they'll attack the net, especially if you try to get the fry) and then use a fine net (depending on the size of the fry) to sweep the fry up, using a figure-eight motion. You may need to remove some plants if they migrate back into them. (6) You may be able to house an Oscar if the tank is large enough, although that's not necessarily the best tankmate for the Convicts. They'll get along, only because the Convicts are very scrappy for their size, so the Oscar will avoid their area after a while. Better tankmates might be other medium sized Central American Cichlids instead, as the Convict are. They could include Archocentrus centrarcus, A. (Herotilapia) multispinnosa, Cryptoheros sajica, C. cutteri or Thorichthys meeki. If your Pleco (I think I read you had one) is of the common variety, it can can upwards of 22 " - 24" if not yet stunted. I would recommend a species of Bushy-Nose Pleco's instead. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@...> wrote: > > Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on > craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm thinking > 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding pair > of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 > weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 gal. > tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't plan to > keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will > continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give them > away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions about > setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple questions > about my convicts as well. Here they are: > > 1. My new tank is hexogonal - not easy to find a hood for. It has > metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top > (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a hood? > > 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids that > would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a > couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is > this a good idea? > > 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two for > this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What if > I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it > have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for this > size tank? > > 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have many > great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new ones > for the new tank? > > 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? And > should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the new > tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY > protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from danger > from the other fish? > > 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want more > convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good choices? > What other options are there, and how many should I have? > > I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really > appreciate any input you have! > > TIA, > > Cheryl > :D >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25695	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Cheryl, Your odd-shaped tank is called a Flat Back Hex Tank. You can measure the length, width and hight and we can find what stock tank fits those measurements. Since you're thinking it may hold about 55 gallons, I'd tend to think that it may be the same length as a 55 in that case, If you at all had a 55 gallon regular tank in mind as an approximate comparison. A regular 55 gallon tank is 48" long. Flat Back Hex tanks also come 48" long as one of their styles. This length (48") Flat Back Hex comes in two different sizes; 48" x 18" x 20" - 65 gallons, and 48" x 18" x 24" - 85 gallons. These tanks also come longer and shorter than 48", as 36" x 18" x 20" - 50 gallons, and 30" x 12" x 12" - 20 gallons. Bushy-Nose Pleco's do a grat job cleaning up the tank. You might want to look into a couple of Long-Fin albino Bushy-Nose Pleco's which are quite decorative. Your best bet in locating Colorquartz is to call 3M for the dealer nearest you. Phone number -- 1-(800) - 447-2914. This comes in at least two different grades; S Grade which is very fine, almost like powder, and T grade which is about like medium sand. There may be another Grade you could inquire about which I understand is about like fine gravel (if they produce it), supposedly used for roofing. Either of these two Grades (S anmd T) are too fine to effectively grow plants in as it will compact too much for proper root growth. You'd have to mix it with aquarium gravel, as I believe you had in mind anyway. While some hobbyists do use this for tanks such as African (Rift Lake) Cichlids, be advised that Quartz is a very hard mineral and can easily scratch glass tanks if you're not careful. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > Thanks a lot for your quick reply. Unfortunately I can't get a > break down of the size of my tank after all from the site you linked > because it is designed to measure a hexagonal tank where all 6 sides > are equal. My tanks sides are not equal, the 2 sides are equal, the > two corners are equal, the back is long, and the front is short. So > there are 4 different side lengths, if that makes any sense > > ____ > | | > \____/ > > It's kind of shaped like that (that's the best drawing job I can do, > lol). We'll just have to see how big it is when we fill it. I'm > thinking 55, based on how full it was when I put 5 gallons of water > in to rinse it out. > > Anyway, I thought there were plecos that were smaller. We have one > in our 10 gal. tank which we've had for awhile now and he's hardly > grown at all. What kind of algae eaters, tank cleaners would you > recommend? > > Oh, and does anyone know where to locate 3M Colorquartz? Do most > pool supply stores carry it? > > Thanks again for the reply! > > Cheryl > :D >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25696	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

I meant to include a third size of 48" long Flat Back Hex tank, but I see I left it out. That one measures 48" x 15" x 24" - 75 gallons. Let us know which one you have. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Cheryl, Your odd-shaped tank is called a Flat Back Hex Tank. You > can measure the length, width and hight and we can find what stock > tank fits those measurements. Since you're thinking it may hold > about 55 gallons, I'd tend to think that it may be the same length as > a 55 in that case, If you at all had a 55 gallon regular tank in mind > as an approximate comparison. A regular 55 gallon tank is 48" long. > > Flat Back Hex tanks also come 48" long as one of their styles. This > length (48") Flat Back Hex comes in two different sizes; 48" x 18" x > 20" - 65 gallons, and 48" x 18" x 24" - 85 gallons. These tanks also > come longer and shorter than 48", as 36" x 18" x 20" - 50 gallons, > and 30" x 12" x 12" - 20 gallons. > > Bushy-Nose Pleco's do a grat job cleaning up the tank. You might > want to look into a couple of Long-Fin albino Bushy-Nose Pleco's > which are quite decorative. > > Your best bet in locating Colorquartz is to call 3M for the dealer > nearest you. Phone number -- 1-(800) - 447-2914. This comes in at > least two different grades; S Grade which is very fine, almost like > powder, and T grade which is about like medium sand. There may be > another Grade you could inquire about which I understand is about > like fine gravel (if they produce it), supposedly used for roofing. > Either of these two Grades (S anmd T) are too fine to effectively > grow plants in as it will compact too much for proper root growth. > You'd have to mix it with aquarium gravel, as I believe you had in > mind anyway. While some hobbyists do use this for tanks such as > African (Rift Lake) Cichlids, be advised that Quartz is a very hard > mineral and can easily scratch glass tanks if you're not careful. Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@> > wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > Thanks a lot for your quick reply. Unfortunately I can't get a > > break down of the size of my tank after all from the site you > linked > > because it is designed to measure a hexagonal tank where all 6 > sides > > are equal. My tanks sides are not equal, the 2 sides are equal, > the > > two corners are equal, the back is long, and the front is short. > So > > there are 4 different side lengths, if that makes any sense > > > > ____ > > | | > > \____/ > > > > It's kind of shaped like that (that's the best drawing job I can > do, > > lol). We'll just have to see how big it is when we fill it. I'm > > thinking 55, based on how full it was when I put 5 gallons of water > > in to rinse it out. > > > > Anyway, I thought there were plecos that were smaller. We have one > > in our 10 gal. tank which we've had for awhile now and he's hardly > > grown at all. What kind of algae eaters, tank cleaners would you > > recommend? > > > > Oh, and does anyone know where to locate 3M Colorquartz? Do most > > pool supply stores carry it? > > > > Thanks again for the reply! > > > > Cheryl > > :D > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25697	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Angels laid eggs

Hi: My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? As for the rest of the community, which includes rainbows, tetras, a gourami and albino corys, should I move the angels to their own tank since they get nippy when with children? Thanks. Jeannie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25698	From: ED	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

Myself not sure but I did find this http://www.lifeinfozone.com/pets- products/the-fun-tropical-angel-fish/ http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=158 http://www.petfishtalk.com/interviews/breeding_angels/breeding_angels.ht m We have angels we are hoping will breed but havn't seen any egg laying. Hope this helps some. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > Hi: > > My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my > 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started > snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with > slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The > eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy > stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? > > As for the rest of the community, which includes rainbows, tetras, a > gourami and albino corys, should I move the angels to their own tank > since they get nippy when with children? > > Thanks. > > Jeannie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25699	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

Jeannie, I gather what you mean is you've had these Angels for 2 months (LOL). Two month old Angels would be about the size of a quarter and about 7 months away from breeding size. From what you're saying then, the pair laid the eggs on the back glass. I have to assume then that you must have used some type of a scraper to remove and transfer them. I'm not quite sure what you mean by them being "lumped together," but if they're piled on top of each other and not spread out in a singler layer the bottom ones are not getting oxygen and are dying. The fuzzy stuff is fungus, and if the eggs are all touching each other it will spread throughout them. A funguscide should be used to counteract this, but with the eggs all "lumped together," this is a moot point at this time; I'm afraid the spawn is lost. Then too, they would no doubt have been lost had you left them where they were since the male was eating them. For best result with breeding them, they should be moved to their own tank, preferably at least a 20 high. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > Hi: > > My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my > 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started > snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with > slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The > eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy > stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? > > As for the rest of the community, which includes rainbows, tetras, a > gourami and albino corys, should I move the angels to their own tank > since they get nippy when with children? > > Thanks. > > Jeannie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25700	From: Tonya	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

-I think you better might have your tank checked for ick. cause i have angels about the same age and. i was for sure they was having babies they looked just liked you explained. we come to find out i took a sample downto the pet store and it was ick. i would not go to a big pet store but one who is a small buisness owner. they know what to look for. but i think this might be your problem -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > Hi: > > My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my > 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started > snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with > slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The > eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy > stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? > > As for the rest of the community, which includes rainbows, tetras, a > gourami and albino corys, should I move the angels to their own tank > since they get nippy when with children? > > Thanks. > > Jeannie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25701	From: Tonya	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

- Close-up photography of developing tropical Angelfish fryMy daughter Annie and I used to breed and raise tropical angelfish. These pages contain images from our close-up photography of our fish. ... home.earthlink.net/~photofish/ - 5k type in the link home.earthlink.net/~photofish/.com this has picture or angels breeding and pics of their fry -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > Hi: > > My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my > 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started > snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with > slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The > eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy > stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? > > As for the rest of the community, which includes rainbows, tetras, a > gourami and albino corys, should I move the angels to their own tank > since they get nippy when with children? > > Thanks. > > Jeannie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25702	From: Wendie	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

It sounds like the eggs are full of fungus which is why the male would eat them. The female might have laid infertile eggs or they turned bad naturally. It's also normal for the parents to eat a bad batch of eggs. If it was the first try for the pair, it could very well be a bad batch that was laid. The eggs should not be lumped together either. They need to be single file with air movement. One of the reasons the parents fan the eggs is to keep them from turning bad. The parents will defend the eggs and will keep the other fish away. However, move them if you want everything to go along peacefully. I had one pair that kept a 6 inch Oscar at bay when they spawned. They are fun to watch when they breed. The wash the babies, take them for a walk, put them to bed at night when they're really young. That gets funny at times. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tonya To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels laid eggs - Close-up photography of developing tropical Angelfish fryMy daughter Annie and I used to breed and raise tropical angelfish. These pages contain images from our close-up photography of our fish. ... home.earthlink.net/~photofish/ - 5k type in the link home.earthlink.net/~photofish/.com this has picture or angels breeding and pics of their fry -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > Hi: > > My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my > 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started > snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with > slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The > eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy > stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? > > As for the rest of the community, which includes rainbows, tetras, a > gourami and albino corys, should I move the angels to their own tank > since they get nippy when with children? > > Thanks. > > Jeannie > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25703	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

Thanks for everyone's help. Raymond, thanks for helping me to clarify that I have indeed had them for 2 months. :-) What most of you have described (thanks Tonya, but it's not ick...these are definitely fish eggs) is correct. All but two or three are lumped together, but are pretty flat in nature - none on top of another. I moved the eggs by scraping the corners with the corner of the net feeder, which worked perfectly to remove them from the walls. I hope that didn't cause problems. Regarding the fungus, it is growing and nothing is happening (no wiggling or growth of eggs). Since reading your responses, I may take them out and let the Angels eat them? Or would that make them sick? At any rate, you're probably right. They do not look healthy. So, when you see an Angel eating eggs, that means they're infertile. What makes them infertile? The dad not fertilizing properly? Thanks, again. Jeannie At 05:40 PM 2/4/2008, you wrote: >It sounds like the eggs are full of fungus which is why the male >would eat them. The female might have laid infertile eggs or they >turned bad naturally. It's also normal for the parents to eat a bad >batch of eggs. If it was the first try for the pair, it could very >well be a bad batch that was laid. > >The eggs should not be lumped together either. They need to be >single file with air movement. One of the reasons the parents fan >the eggs is to keep them from turning bad. > >The parents will defend the eggs and will keep the other fish away. >However, move them if you want everything to go along peacefully. I >had one pair that kept a 6 inch Oscar at bay when they spawned. They >are fun to watch when they breed. The wash the babies, take them for >a walk, put them to bed at night when they're really young. That >gets funny at times.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

Tonya, Ich is a very small parasite that attaches itself to the skin of fish and it looks like the fish was sprinkled with salt. I think your pet store employee who told you that was full of BS-ich! ;-) I hope they didn't sell you some Ich medicine. What kind of sample did you bring and what kind of test did they do to come up with their ich conclusion? I have a little test where I question pet store and fish store employees about "that nitrogen cycle thing", "fishless cycling with ammonia" and "BioSpira" and when they know very little about these three things, it gives me an idea that they know very little about the fish keeping hobby in general. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tonya Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 4:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels laid eggs -I think you better might have your tank checked for ick. cause i have angels about the same age and. i was for sure they was having babies they looked just liked you explained. we come to find out i took a sample downto the pet store and it was ick. i would not go to a big pet store but one who is a small buisness owner. they know what to look for. but i think this might be your problem -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > Hi: > > My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my > 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started > snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with > slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The > eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy > stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? > > As for the rest of the community, which includes rainbows, tetras, a > gourami and albino corys, should I move the angels to their own tank > since they get nippy when with children? > > Thanks. > > Jeannie No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1257 - Release Date: 2/3/2008 5:49 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25705	From: derwag	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: New tank

Hello All: I would appreciate your thoughts on: 1) I am considering a new tank - either a 38 gallon or 46 bow. My concern on the bow is that there will be too much distortion. I am interested in hearing how much or little there really is. 2) What brand canister filter would you recommend (and size) for these tanks? What is the real different in performance and reliability among Eheim, Fluval, and Marineland? Thanks for your insights!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25706	From: tonya shriver	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

i defiantly aint stupid. i did some research on the web and asked more than just one pet store. i took water samples and the fuzzy problem with me and none of the pet stores was related in any way possible. but thanks for your concern but i always do my homework before sking any q's ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 4, 2008 7:40:45 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels laid eggs Tonya, Ich is a very small parasite that attaches itself to the skin of fish and it looks like the fish was sprinkled with salt. I think your pet store employee who told you that was full of BS-ich! ;-) I hope they didn't sell you some Ich medicine. What kind of sample did you bring and what kind of test did they do to come up with their ich conclusion? I have a little test where I question pet store and fish store employees about "that nitrogen cycle thing", "fishless cycling with ammonia" and "BioSpira" and when they know very little about these three things, it gives me an idea that they know very little about the fish keeping hobby in general. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tonya Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 4:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels laid eggs -I think you better might have your tank checked for ick. cause i have angels about the same age and. i was for sure they was having babies they looked just liked you explained. we come to find out i took a sample downto the pet store and it was ick. i would not go to a big pet store but one who is a small buisness owner. they know what to look for. but i think this might be your problem -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > Hi: > > My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my > 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started > snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with > slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The > eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy > stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? > > As for the rest of the community, which includes rainbows, tetras, a > gourami and albino corys, should I move the angels to their own tank > since they get nippy when with children? > > Thanks. > > Jeannie No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1257 - Release Date: 2/3/2008 5:49 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25707	From: nice6669	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: fresh water rays

i have a 125 gal oscar tank and would like to add rays i have a sand bottom and the fish store said it should work help please p

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25708	From: Jenn	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Water Fleas

I noticed that I have water fleas. From what I have read, they really aren't a threat to my tank but is there a way to get rid of them? Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25709	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

Jeannie, The behavior that has been described, and the one you are posing a question about is only one of many. These eggs may have been perfectly good (i.e., fertilized), but often one or both partners of a young inexperienced pair will eat the eggs anyway, sometimes for reasons we can only guess at -- like the immediate appearance of the spawn looking more appetizing as to overwhelm the instinct that this is their future generation to be raised. Some pairs may need to go through this spawning experience several times before they get it right, even devouring fry on occasion. Another quite definite scenario is that the pair may well have felt that the other fish in the tank appeared too much of a threat to the eggs in their possibility to eat them, and decided to eat the eggs themselves rather than have the tankmate intruders devour them. This response comes about when the pair feels there are too many possible intruders for them to be able to defend the eggs against. Feeling the present environment presented no possibility for raising fry at this time, they would rather make use of these resources themselves to be able to produce another spawn in the near future when the environment might be less threatening. I had surmized how you removed the eggs, and they can be removed in this manner successfully at times, although some may have been damaged, inviting fungus to set in to them (and spreading) without the use of an anti-fungal agent. These eggs are increasingly less difficult to remove over the next day or two, but that luxury is seldom available. I understand there was little choice though, on your part, to attempt to act on the situation presently. Don't allow the parents to eat the eggs at this stage in the game. This would serve no useful purpose. As for possible reason(s) why the eggs may have been infertile (if in fact they were?), yes, an inexperienced male may not have fertilized them, had that been the case. Along these same lines, while its entirely possible that he may have been doing his job, in the presence of a strong current (airstone or filter outlet), his milt may have been washed away from the spawning site before having the opportunity to reach the eggs -- if it was seen that the eggs were infertile, in the presence of this influence. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > Thanks for everyone's help. Raymond, thanks for helping me to > clarify that I have indeed had them for 2 months. :-) > > What most of you have described (thanks Tonya, but it's not > ick...these are definitely fish eggs) is correct. All but two or > three are lumped together, but are pretty flat in nature - none on > top of another. I moved the eggs by scraping the corners with the > corner of the net feeder, which worked perfectly to remove them from > the walls. I hope that didn't cause problems. > > Regarding the fungus, it is growing and nothing is happening (no > wiggling or growth of eggs). Since reading your responses, I may > take them out and let the Angels eat them? Or would that make them > sick? At any rate, you're probably right. They do not look healthy. > > So, when you see an Angel eating eggs, that means they're > infertile. What makes them infertile? The dad not fertilizing properly? > > Thanks, again. > > Jeannie > > > > At 05:40 PM 2/4/2008, you wrote: > > >It sounds like the eggs are full of fungus which is why the male > >would eat them. The female might have laid infertile eggs or they > >turned bad naturally. It's also normal for the parents to eat a bad > >batch of eggs. If it was the first try for the pair, it could very > >well be a bad batch that was laid. > > > >The eggs should not be lumped together either. They need to be > >single file with air movement. One of the reasons the parents fan > >the eggs is to keep them from turning bad. > > > >The parents will defend the eggs and will keep the other fish away. > >However, move them if you want everything to go along peacefully. I > >had one pair that kept a 6 inch Oscar at bay when they spawned. They > >are fun to watch when they breed. The wash the babies, take them for > >a walk, put them to bed at night when they're really young. That > >gets funny at times. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25710	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

Jenn, If you have water fleas (Daphnia), the "problem" should soon take care of itself. Just about any and all fish relish them as this is a prime food for fish in the natural habitat when and where they coexist. Its cetainly nothing to worry about, as they are not "fleas" in the manner we thing of such pests on dogs, and are really of little concern. Many advanced hobbyists raise Daphnia specifically to feed their fish with, especially since its a good live food despite the fact there's a lot of shell matter. Daphnia are often sold in better LFS's for this same purpose. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: > > I noticed that I have water fleas. From what I have read, they really > aren't a threat to my tank but is there a way to get rid of them? > > > > Jenn >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25711	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: fresh water rays

"p," What help are you looking for (confirmation that this is correct?)? Yes, this will work! That is of couse, unless the Oscars get too inquisitive, but many large Cichlid hobbyists keep rays with their large Cichlids quite successfully with the most peaceful coexistance. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nice6669" <nice6669@...> wrote: > > i have a 125 gal oscar tank and would like to add rays i have a sand > bottom and the fish store said it should work help please > p >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25712	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: fresh water rays

What kind of FW rays? Most of them get far too large for a 125. Make sure you do your homework and learn the scientific name of the proposed rays, from your LFS, so you can be sure you are getting a species that will thrive in your tank. I remember reading something about a dwarf species but I did a quick Google search and only saw small snippets about them with no pages looking definitive. Anything larger than a dwarf specimen would put a strain on your stocking since an Oscar probably likes that size tank anyhow... not to mention that they are both bottom dwellers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nice6669 Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 7:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fresh water rays i have a 125 gal oscar tank and would like to add rays i have a sand bottom and the fish store said it should work help please p No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1257 - Release Date: 2/3/2008 5:49 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25713	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

Couldn't help but add to this thread. No need to be defiant about it, but I understand you have some knowledge of the fish hobby. In trying to fully understand this though, am I to believe that the LFS diagnosed Ich from a water sample? Can you please enlighten us as to how they came to this deduction, if you might know their procedure for this? They would have had to at least view a water sample under a microscope in an effort to try to find either dormant (resting) cysts, spores or free-swimming Ich trophants which is highly unlikely even conceeding the possibility of them recognizing such protozoans. Ich is microscopic and cannot be seen with the naked eye. When you see a white spot on the skin of a fish, you are not seeing the Ich protozoan, but are viewing the fish's skin in reaction to it. Is it possible, besides bringing a water sample to your pet shop, that you also brought along some Angelfish eggs (fungused), since you're also mentioning the "fuzzy problem"? -- which would indicate fungused fish eggs. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, tonya shriver <ialreadytaken4@...> wrote: > > i defiantly aint stupid. i did some research on the web and asked more than just one pet store. i took water samples and the fuzzy problem with me and none of the pet stores was related in any way possible. but thanks for your concern but i always do my homework before sking any q's > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, February 4, 2008 7:40:45 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels laid eggs > > Tonya, > > Ich is a very small parasite that attaches itself to the skin of fish and it > looks like the fish was sprinkled with salt. > > I think your pet store employee who told you that was full of BS- ich! ;-) > I hope they didn't sell you some Ich medicine. > > What kind of sample did you bring and what kind of test did they do to come > up with their ich conclusion? > > I have a little test where I question pet store and fish store employees > about "that nitrogen cycle thing", "fishless cycling with ammonia" and > "BioSpira" and when they know very little about these three things, it gives > me an idea that they know very little about the fish keeping hobby in > general. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Tonya > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 4:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels laid eggs > > -I think you better might have your tank checked for ick. cause i have > angels about the same age and. i was for sure they was having babies they > looked just liked you explained. we come to find out i took a sample downto > the pet store and it was ick. i would not go to a big pet store but one who > is a small buisness owner. they know what to look for. but i think this > might be your problem > > -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@> wrote: > > > > Hi: > > > > My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my > > 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started > > snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with > > slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The > > eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy > > stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? > > > > As for the rest of the community, which includes rainbows, tetras, a > > gourami and albino corys, should I move the angels to their own tank > > since they get nippy when with children? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jeannie > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1257 - Release Date: 2/3/2008 > 5:49 PM > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25714	From: Gregg	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Terrible day

I'm terribly sorry to hear of your loss, Ed. As a fellow dog lover, owner and rescuer, I know how deeply that can affect you. My pack of Shelties sends their condolences and reminds you that your dog will be waiting for you at the Rainbow Bridge. -- Gregg Bender www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25715	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/4/2008
Subject: Re: fresh water rays

There are at least 6 or 7 "dwarf" freshwater stingrays commonly being imported for the hobby which vary in size from 23cm (9 1/4") to 29cm (11 5/8") in diameter when full grown. These include Potamotrygon scobina, P. yepezi. P. zignata, P. magdalenae, P. orbhyt, P. shuhmacheri and P. humeraxa (sp?), all which seem to make fine tankmates for large Cichlids. Its noted that some (lazy) Oscars like to lounge around on the bottom sometimes, often even leaning against an object, but they are really mid-water occupants. Agreed though, that there are a few rays such as the very attractive spotted stingray (P. leopoldi) that are unfortunately sold in the hobby due to their popularity, which can get to 24", with the females getting even larger. I guess they're destined for a fish fry after outgrowing their tanks <g>. Perfect filets! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What kind of FW rays? Most of them get far too large for a 125. Make sure > you do your homework and learn the scientific name of the proposed rays, > from your LFS, so you can be sure you are getting a species that will thrive > in your tank. I remember reading something about a dwarf species but I did > a quick Google search and only saw small snippets about them with no pages > looking definitive. Anything larger than a dwarf specimen would put a > strain on your stocking since an Oscar probably likes that size tank > anyhow... not to mention that they are both bottom dwellers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of nice6669 > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 7:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] fresh water rays > > i have a 125 gal oscar tank and would like to add rays i have a sand bottom > and the fish store said it should work help please p > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1257 - Release Date: 2/3/2008 > 5:49 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25716	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Thanks so much for the info!! The dementions on my tank are 36" across the back (the longest side) x 24" from front to back (at the longest point) x 21" tall. The shortest distance from front to back is 18" (at the point of the triangle closest to the back). The front side (short side) is 22.5" and each hex corner is 8.5". So here's the final rundown Side 1. 36" Side 2. 8" Side 3. 8" Side 4. 8.5" Side 5. 8.5" Side 6. 22.5" Total 91.5" Height 21" Let me know what you think the volume is. Thanks for the info on the fish, RE: stunted growth. It makes sense. I've never had a fish live for longer than a year (I've never really kept fish with long life spans, mostly goldfish, neon tetras etc.) My dad had a big tank, but he had no idea what he was doing and they all kept dying. Fish would die, he would add more, fish would die, he would add more. He probably had incompatable fish together, was overstocked, and I don't think he ever did a water change or checked the levels on anything. It's so good to have a little info so that you can do better. I'm hoping that I'm moving my convicts soon enough and that they're not stunted. My current tank design is half planted and half caves. I have rock caves and a broken terra cotta pot on one side of the tank, with plants on the other and a rock cave there too. The breeding area is on the non planted part of the tank of course, and most of their time is spent there as well. But before I got them I read that it would be good for the female to have some hiding spots, so I included plants to give her (and the potential fry) some additional cover. So far they have not uprooted many of them, and I love how the plants grow and offer a natural food source for the fish. I don't mind that they munch on them (in fact I like it). I did want to ask if there are any NON-cichlid companions that could join my convicts? And could any NON-Central American cichlids do well with them? I know the cons are very aggressive, so anything with them has to be either bigger or equally as aggressive as they are. Oh - and when you're telling me which companions I might pick, if you can use common names if they have them it would help. ;) TIA, Cheryl :D --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Cheryl, I'll try to pick up from here on this: (1) As for a hood > for your tank, there should be one available. Try Drs Foster & Smith > (< DrsFosterSmith.com >) or That Fish Place (< www.thatfishplace.com > >). You'll need to measure your Flat Back Hex tank to be able to > tell them the size (to fit the hood). > > (2) As for the best substrate, probably #3 (or #2 if you prefer) > commercial grade gravel is about as good as any, although I see you > have 3M Colorquartz in mind, which is much smaller in size. The two > on-line retailers mentioned above also carry aquarium gravel in many > different colors, or you should be able to buy (or order) Clifford W. > Estes aquarium gravel from your LFS, also in many different colors. > > (3) This has been given an answer -- we need to know the volume of > your tank, or at least its dimensions. > > (4) Many Cichlids won't tolerate plants in their vicinity, as they > prefer a clear vision of their territory to protect it. Its > surprising that your Convict put up with them, but I suspect there > were no plants nearby their spawning site. If you're still > contemplating an Oscar, which may be doable depending on the tank > size, know that they WILL NOT allow any plants to remain rooted. I > wood leave your present tank planted if you're going to use it for > other species, unless you're going to use that tank as a > hospital/quarantine tank -- which everyone should have. In any case, > why uproot well established plants unless you really need to. > > (5) Many Cichlids will not take kindly to being moved with their fry, > although Convicts are one of those which are extremely protective of > their progeny and may put up with it with no problem. What most > often happens when interfering with a breeding pair of Cichlids and > their fry is that they will eat them rather than have this "predator" > (YOU, as they perceive this) consume them. In that way, they can use > the nutrition to spawn again to start another brood where the present > one would have been devoured by the predator -- or at least in the > wild, and they think no differently in captivity when confronted with > such a stress. > > I would not attempt it, but if you prefer, the best way to move the > fry (if they're in a tight school) is to syphon them out into a > recepticle (bucket, for instance) using a length of flexible clear > plastic hose, which every hobbyist should have on hand (for various > uses). Barring that, if they're swimming more loosely, you'll have > to first remove the parents (they'll attack the net, especially if > you try to get the fry) and then use a fine net (depending on the > size of the fry) to sweep the fry up, using a figure-eight motion. > You may need to remove some plants if they migrate back into them. > > (6) You may be able to house an Oscar if the tank is large enough, > although that's not necessarily the best tankmate for the Convicts. > They'll get along, only because the Convicts are very scrappy for > their size, so the Oscar will avoid their area after a while. Better > tankmates might be other medium sized Central American Cichlids > instead, as the Convict are. They could include Archocentrus > centrarcus, A. (Herotilapia) multispinnosa, Cryptoheros sajica, C. > cutteri or Thorichthys meeki. If your Pleco (I think I read you had > one) is of the common variety, it can can upwards of 22 " - 24" if > not yet stunted. I would recommend a species of Bushy-Nose Pleco's > instead. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@> > wrote: > > > > Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on > > craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm thinking > > 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding pair > > of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 > > weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 gal. > > tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't plan > to > > keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will > > continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give > them > > away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions > about > > setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple questions > > about my convicts as well. Here they are: > > > > 1. My new tank is hexogonal - not easy to find a hood for. It has > > metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top > > (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a hood? > > > > 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids that > > would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a > > couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is > > this a good idea? > > > > 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two for > > this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What if > > I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it > > have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for this > > size tank? > > > > 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have many > > great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new ones > > for the new tank? > > > > 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? And > > should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the new > > tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY > > protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from > danger > > from the other fish? > > > > 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want more > > convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good choices? > > What other options are there, and how many should I have? > > > > I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really > > appreciate any input you have! > > > > TIA, > > > > Cheryl > > :D > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25717	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Using the dimensions you gave, I figure the gallons to be 78.5455 Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: my_cycling@...: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:03:39 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice Thanks so much for the info!! The dementions on my tank are 36" across the back (the longest side) x 24" from front to back (at the longest point) x 21" tall. The shortest distance from front to back is 18" (at the point of the triangle closest to the back). The front side (short side) is 22.5" and each hex corner is 8.5". So here's the final rundownSide 1. 36"Side 2. 8"Side 3. 8"Side 4. 8.5"Side 5. 8.5"Side 6. 22.5"Total 91.5"Height 21"Let me know what you think the volume is.Thanks for the info on the fish, RE: stunted growth. It makes sense. I've never had a fish live for longer than a year (I've never really kept fish with long life spans, mostly goldfish, neon tetras etc.) My dad had a big tank, but he had no idea what he was doing and they all kept dying. Fish would die, he would add more, fish would die, he would add more. He probably had incompatable fish together, was overstocked, and I don't think he ever did a water change or checked the levels on anything. It's so good to have a little info so that you can do better. I'm hoping that I'm moving my convicts soon enough and that they're not stunted.My current tank design is half planted and half caves. I have rock caves and a broken terra cotta pot on one side of the tank, with plants on the other and a rock cave there too. The breeding area is on the non planted part of the tank of course, and most of their time is spent there as well. But before I got them I read that it would be good for the female to have some hiding spots, so I included plants to give her (and the potential fry) some additional cover. So far they have not uprooted many of them, and I love how the plants grow and offer a natural food source for the fish. I don't mind that they munch on them (in fact I like it).I did want to ask if there are any NON-cichlid companions that could join my convicts? And could any NON-Central American cichlids do well with them? I know the cons are very aggressive, so anything with them has to be either bigger or equally as aggressive as they are. Oh - and when you're telling me which companions I might pick, if you can use common names if they have them it would help. ;)TIA,Cheryl:D--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote:>> Hi Cheryl, I'll try to pick up from here on this: (1) As for a hood > for your tank, there should be one available. Try Drs Foster & Smith > (< DrsFosterSmith.com >) or That Fish Place (< www.thatfishplace.com > >). You'll need to measure your Flat Back Hex tank to be able to > tell them the size (to fit the hood).> > (2) As for the best substrate, probably #3 (or #2 if you prefer)> commercial grade gravel is about as good as any, although I see you > have 3M Colorquartz in mind, which is much smaller in size. The two > on-line retailers mentioned above also carry aquarium gravel in many > different colors, or you should be able to buy (or order) Clifford W. > Estes aquarium gravel from your LFS, also in many different colors.> > (3) This has been given an answer -- we need to know the volume of > your tank, or at least its dimensions.> > (4) Many Cichlids won't tolerate plants in their vicinity, as they > prefer a clear vision of their territory to protect it. Its > surprising that your Convict put up with them, but I suspect there > were no plants nearby their spawning site. If you're still > contemplating an Oscar, which may be doable depending on the tank > size, know that they WILL NOT allow any plants to remain rooted. I > wood leave your present tank planted if you're going to use it for > other species, unless you're going to use that tank as a > hospital/quarantine tank -- which everyone should have. In any case, > why uproot well established plants unless you really need to.> > (5) Many Cichlids will not take kindly to being moved with their fry, > although Convicts are one of those which are extremely protective of > their progeny and may put up with it with no problem. What most > often happens when interfering with a breeding pair of Cichlids and > their fry is that they will eat them rather than have this "predator" > (YOU, as they perceive this) consume them. In that way, they can use > the nutrition to spawn again to start another brood where the present > one would have been devoured by the predator -- or at least in the > wild, and they think no differently in captivity when confronted with > such a stress. > > I would not attempt it, but if you prefer, the best way to move the > fry (if they're in a tight school) is to syphon them out into a > recepticle (bucket, for instance) using a length of flexible clear > plastic hose, which every hobbyist should have on hand (for various > uses). Barring that, if they're swimming more loosely, you'll have > to first remove the parents (they'll attack the net, especially if > you try to get the fry) and then use a fine net (depending on the > size of the fry) to sweep the fry up, using a figure-eight motion. > You may need to remove some plants if they migrate back into them.> > (6) You may be able to house an Oscar if the tank is large enough, > although that's not necessarily the best tankmate for the Convicts. > They'll get along, only because the Convicts are very scrappy for > their size, so the Oscar will avoid their area after a while. Better > tankmates might be other medium sized Central American Cichlids > instead, as the Convict are. They could include Archocentrus > centrarcus, A. (Herotilapia) multispinnosa, Cryptoheros sajica, C. > cutteri or Thorichthys meeki. If your Pleco (I think I read you had > one) is of the common variety, it can can upwards of 22 " - 24" if > not yet stunted. I would recommend a species of Bushy-Nose Pleco's > instead. Ray> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@> > wrote:> >> > Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on > > craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm thinking > > 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding pair > > of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 > > weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 gal. > > tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't plan > to > > keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will > > continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give > them > > away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions > about > > setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple questions > > about my convicts as well. Here they are: > > > > 1. My new tank is hexogonal - not easy to find a hood for. It has > > metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top > > (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a hood? > > > > 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids that > > would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a > > couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is > > this a good idea? > > > > 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two for > > this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What if > > I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it > > have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for this > > size tank? > > > > 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have many > > great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new ones > > for the new tank? > > > > 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? And > > should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the new > > tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY > > protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from > danger > > from the other fish? > > > > 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want more > > convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good choices? > > What other options are there, and how many should I have? > > > > I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really > > appreciate any input you have! > > > > TIA, > > > > Cheryl > > :D> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25718	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Your dimensions here almost correspond with one of the sets of dimensions I've given (except for the height difference of 1"); This may be do to different aquarium manufacturers using varying top and bottom trims. The closest aquarium to this that I've pointed out is rated at 50 gallons. Using your set of dimensions, I've come up with a rough volume capacity of 59.3 gallons (full length X width x height divided by 231) without allowing for (deducting) the two volume- reducing angles on the front. Your extra inch in height equals 1.25 (1 1/4) gallons, or if added to the tank closest to what I gave you is 51 1/4 gallons (tank manufacturers often round off these volumes to facilitate marketing, anyway). I would not consider an Oscar for this size tank, especially when adding a medium sized (6" - 8" max) Pleco, as it will get a little tight. There are any number of non-Cichlid companions to consider. Among those are several of the larger species of Australian (and New Guinea) Rainbowfish. Gourami's may also be considered, with the Pearl Gourami being one of the more peaceful ones. Larger species of Molly's should also fair well, if you can "painlessly" (out of the tap) maintain the water on the alkaline side, as it preferably should be anyway for Convict Cichlids -- and add a bit of salt. Some of the larger Barbs should also do well, which would include the Clown Barb, the Striped Barb and the "T" Barb. Then too, Giant Danio's would make a nice addition. While any of these choices may do well with Convict Cichlids, not all of these may necessarily do well with each other. If considering more than one companion species, let us know which ones you've decided on. I don't understand your inclination for South American Cichlids as companions to your Convicts. For one thing, they have different water requirements for the most part, even though either group will somewhat adapt to the other's water parameters providing they're not too far off their own. Besides that, Central American Cichlids have evolved in an environment requiring them to be more competitive and aggressive, compared to most South American Cichlids which do not have as much competition and thus are comparatively less aggressive. Reasons for these differences are, for one major factor, that Central American Cichlids have not had the luxury of immense expanses of water to habitat (adding to competion for territory) within their much smaller streams and rivers whereas, except for the Western Drainage, most South American Cichlids have the much broader expanses of the hugh Amazon, Esquibo and Orinoco river drainages including all their tributories to evolve in. If you've ever been on one of the many Central American rives you'd find for the most part that they're not all that wide (nor are they especially long). While South American Cichlids can hold their own, species as large as Oscars are pussycats when compared to any equal-sized Central American Cichlid, excepting perhaps most of the S.A. Pike Cichlids which, because of their smaller niche (faster water), need to be more competitive. These are the reasons I suggested other similar sized Central American Cichlids, which goes along with your recognition that the Convict's companions need to be "equally as aggressive as they are." As for the non-Cichlid companions I recommended, most are too fast to have to worry about the Convict's aggressiveness, and any of the slower ones have sufficient room in your 50 gallon hex to be able to avoid them when also considering your intention to plant this tank. Common names for your use, for the C.A. Cichlids I recommended are: Flier or Green-Fin Cichlid (Archocentrus centrarchus), Rainbow Cichlid (A. multispinosa - ex-Herotilapia multispinosa), Blue Eyed Cichlid (Cryptoheros sajica), C. cutteri (Cutter's Cichlid) and Firemouth Cichlid (Thorichthys meeki). Many of the wholesalers just use the species (last) name of them when referring to them, such as "sajica," as these names are often more well known than their "common" names. I did include only the common names for those non-Cichlid recommendations, for your convenience, but let me know if you need the scientific names of any, if some are confusing to your LFS. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@...> wrote: > > Thanks so much for the info!! The dementions on my tank are 36" > across the back (the longest side) x 24" from front to back (at the > longest point) x 21" tall. The shortest distance from front to back > is 18" (at the point of the triangle closest to the back). The > front side (short side) is 22.5" and each hex corner is 8.5". So > here's the final rundown > > Side 1. 36" > Side 2. 8" > Side 3. 8" > Side 4. 8.5" > Side 5. 8.5" > Side 6. 22.5" > > Total 91.5" > > Height 21" > > Let me know what you think the volume is. > > Thanks for the info on the fish, RE: stunted growth. It makes > sense. I've never had a fish live for longer than a year (I've > never really kept fish with long life spans, mostly goldfish, neon > tetras etc.) My dad had a big tank, but he had no idea what he was > doing and they all kept dying. Fish would die, he would add more, > fish would die, he would add more. He probably had incompatable > fish together, was overstocked, and I don't think he ever did a > water change or checked the levels on anything. It's so good to > have a little info so that you can do better. I'm hoping that I'm > moving my convicts soon enough and that they're not stunted. > > My current tank design is half planted and half caves. I have rock > caves and a broken terra cotta pot on one side of the tank, with > plants on the other and a rock cave there too. The breeding area is > on the non planted part of the tank of course, and most of their > time is spent there as well. But before I got them I read that it > would be good for the female to have some hiding spots, so I > included plants to give her (and the potential fry) some additional > cover. So far they have not uprooted many of them, and I love how > the plants grow and offer a natural food source for the fish. I > don't mind that they munch on them (in fact I like it). > > I did want to ask if there are any NON-cichlid companions that could > join my convicts? And could any NON-Central American cichlids do > well with them? I know the cons are very aggressive, so anything > with them has to be either bigger or equally as aggressive as they > are. Oh - and when you're telling me which companions I might pick, > if you can use common names if they have them it would help. ;) > > TIA, > > Cheryl > :D > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Cheryl, I'll try to pick up from here on this: (1) As for a > hood > > for your tank, there should be one available. Try Drs Foster & > Smith > > (< DrsFosterSmith.com >) or That Fish Place (< > www.thatfishplace.com > > >). You'll need to measure your Flat Back Hex tank to be able to > > tell them the size (to fit the hood). > > > > (2) As for the best substrate, probably #3 (or #2 if you prefer) > > commercial grade gravel is about as good as any, although I see > you > > have 3M Colorquartz in mind, which is much smaller in size. The > two > > on-line retailers mentioned above also carry aquarium gravel in > many > > different colors, or you should be able to buy (or order) Clifford > W. > > Estes aquarium gravel from your LFS, also in many different colors. > > > > (3) This has been given an answer -- we need to know the volume of > > your tank, or at least its dimensions. > > > > (4) Many Cichlids won't tolerate plants in their vicinity, as they > > prefer a clear vision of their territory to protect it. Its > > surprising that your Convict put up with them, but I suspect there > > were no plants nearby their spawning site. If you're still > > contemplating an Oscar, which may be doable depending on the tank > > size, know that they WILL NOT allow any plants to remain rooted. > I > > wood leave your present tank planted if you're going to use it for > > other species, unless you're going to use that tank as a > > hospital/quarantine tank -- which everyone should have. In any > case, > > why uproot well established plants unless you really need to. > > > > (5) Many Cichlids will not take kindly to being moved with their > fry, > > although Convicts are one of those which are extremely protective > of > > their progeny and may put up with it with no problem. What most > > often happens when interfering with a breeding pair of Cichlids > and > > their fry is that they will eat them rather than have > this "predator" > > (YOU, as they perceive this) consume them. In that way, they can > use > > the nutrition to spawn again to start another brood where the > present > > one would have been devoured by the predator -- or at least in the > > wild, and they think no differently in captivity when confronted > with > > such a stress. > > > > I would not attempt it, but if you prefer, the best way to move > the > > fry (if they're in a tight school) is to syphon them out into a > > recepticle (bucket, for instance) using a length of flexible clear > > plastic hose, which every hobbyist should have on hand (for > various > > uses). Barring that, if they're swimming more loosely, you'll > have > > to first remove the parents (they'll attack the net, especially if > > you try to get the fry) and then use a fine net (depending on the > > size of the fry) to sweep the fry up, using a figure-eight > motion. > > You may need to remove some plants if they migrate back into them. > > > > (6) You may be able to house an Oscar if the tank is large enough, > > although that's not necessarily the best tankmate for the > Convicts. > > They'll get along, only because the Convicts are very scrappy for > > their size, so the Oscar will avoid their area after a while. > Better > > tankmates might be other medium sized Central American Cichlids > > instead, as the Convict are. They could include Archocentrus > > centrarcus, A. (Herotilapia) multispinnosa, Cryptoheros sajica, C. > > cutteri or Thorichthys meeki. If your Pleco (I think I read you > had > > one) is of the common variety, it can can upwards of 22 " - 24" if > > not yet stunted. I would recommend a species of Bushy-Nose > Pleco's > > instead. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on > > > craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm > thinking > > > 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding > pair > > > of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 > > > weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 > gal. > > > tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't > plan > > to > > > keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will > > > continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give > > them > > > away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions > > about > > > setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple > questions > > > about my convicts as well. Here they are: > > > > > > 1. My new tank is hexogonal - not easy to find a hood for. It > has > > > metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top > > > (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a > hood? > > > > > > 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids > that > > > would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a > > > couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is > > > this a good idea? > > > > > > 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two > for > > > this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What > if > > > I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it > > > have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for > this > > > size tank? > > > > > > 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have > many > > > great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new > ones > > > for the new tank? > > > > > > 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? > And > > > should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the > new > > > tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY > > > protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from > > danger > > > from the other fish? > > > > > > 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want > more > > > convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good > choices? > > > What other options are there, and how many should I have? > > > > > > I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really > > > appreciate any input you have! > > > > > > TIA, > > > > > > Cheryl > > > :D > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25719	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Somewhere in your calculations, you're using Cheryl's dimensions wrong. A full-sized 36" x 18" x 21" aquarium will have a capacity of approximately 59 gallons -- this is without taking off the two front "corners" (allowing for the two short angled front panels) which would decrease this volume. The tank can hold no more than 59 gallons, and will hold less because of the angled front panels. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@...> wrote: > > > Using the dimensions you gave, I figure the gallons to be 78.5455 > > Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º ((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > To: AquaticLife@...: my_cycling@...: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:03:39 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice > > > > > Thanks so much for the info!! The dementions on my tank are 36" across the back (the longest side) x 24" from front to back (at the longest point) x 21" tall. The shortest distance from front to back is 18" (at the point of the triangle closest to the back). The front side (short side) is 22.5" and each hex corner is 8.5". So here's the final rundownSide 1. 36"Side 2. 8"Side 3. 8"Side 4. 8.5"Side 5. 8.5"Side 6. 22.5"Total 91.5"Height 21"Let me know what you think the volume is.Thanks for the info on the fish, RE: stunted growth. It makes sense. I've never had a fish live for longer than a year (I've never really kept fish with long life spans, mostly goldfish, neon tetras etc.) My dad had a big tank, but he had no idea what he was doing and they all kept dying. Fish would die, he would add more, fish would die, he would add more. He probably had incompatable fish together, was overstocked, and I don't think he ever did a water change or checked the levels on anything. It's so good to have a little info so that you can do better. I'm hoping that I'm moving my convicts soon enough and that they're not stunted.My current tank design is half planted and half caves. I have rock caves and a broken terra cotta pot on one side of the tank, with plants on the other and a rock cave there too. The breeding area is on the non planted part of the tank of course, and most of their time is spent there as well. But before I got them I read that it would be good for the female to have some hiding spots, so I included plants to give her (and the potential fry) some additional cover. So far they have not uprooted many of them, and I love how the plants grow and offer a natural food source for the fish. I don't mind that they munch on them (in fact I like it).I did want to ask if there are any NON-cichlid companions that could join my convicts? And could any NON-Central American cichlids do well with them? I know the cons are very aggressive, so anything with them has to be either bigger or equally as aggressive as they are. Oh - and when you're telling me which companions I might pick, if you can use common names if they have them it would help. ;) TIA,Cheryl:D--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote:>> Hi Cheryl, I'll try to pick up from here on this: (1) As for a hood > for your tank, there should be one available. Try Drs Foster & Smith > (< DrsFosterSmith.com >) or That Fish Place (< www.thatfishplace.com > >). You'll need to measure your Flat Back Hex tank to be able to > tell them the size (to fit the hood).> > (2) As for the best substrate, probably #3 (or #2 if you prefer)> commercial grade gravel is about as good as any, although I see you > have 3M Colorquartz in mind, which is much smaller in size. The two > on-line retailers mentioned above also carry aquarium gravel in many > different colors, or you should be able to buy (or order) Clifford W. > Estes aquarium gravel from your LFS, also in many different colors.> > (3) This has been given an answer -- we need to know the volume of > your tank, or at least its dimensions.> > (4) Many Cichlids won't tolerate plants in their vicinity, as they > prefer a clear vision of their territory to protect it. Its > surprising that your Convict put up with them, but I suspect there > were no plants nearby their spawning site. If you're still > contemplating an Oscar, which may be doable depending on the tank > size, know that they WILL NOT allow any plants to remain rooted. I > wood leave your present tank planted if you're going to use it for > other species, unless you're going to use that tank as a > hospital/quarantine tank -- which everyone should have. In any case, > why uproot well established plants unless you really need to.> > (5) Many Cichlids will not take kindly to being moved with their fry, > although Convicts are one of those which are extremely protective of > their progeny and may put up with it with no problem. What most > often happens when interfering with a breeding pair of Cichlids and > their fry is that they will eat them rather than have this "predator" > (YOU, as they perceive this) consume them. In that way, they can use > the nutrition to spawn again to start another brood where the present > one would have been devoured by the predator -- or at least in the > wild, and they think no differently in captivity when confronted with > such a stress. > > I would not attempt it, but if you prefer, the best way to move the > fry (if they're in a tight school) is to syphon them out into a > recepticle (bucket, for instance) using a length of flexible clear > plastic hose, which every hobbyist should have on hand (for various > uses). Barring that, if they're swimming more loosely, you'll have > to first remove the parents (they'll attack the net, especially if > you try to get the fry) and then use a fine net (depending on the > size of the fry) to sweep the fry up, using a figure-eight motion. > You may need to remove some plants if they migrate back into them.> > (6) You may be able to house an Oscar if the tank is large enough, > although that's not necessarily the best tankmate for the Convicts. > They'll get along, only because the Convicts are very scrappy for > their size, so the Oscar will avoid their area after a while. Better > tankmates might be other medium sized Central American Cichlids > instead, as the Convict are. They could include Archocentrus > centrarcus, A. (Herotilapia) multispinnosa, Cryptoheros sajica, C. > cutteri or Thorichthys meeki. If your Pleco (I think I read you had > one) is of the common variety, it can can upwards of 22 " - 24" if > not yet stunted. I would recommend a species of Bushy-Nose Pleco's > instead. Ray> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@> > wrote:> >> > Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on > > craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm thinking > > 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding pair > > of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 > > weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 gal. > > tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't plan > to > > keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will > > continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give > them > > away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions > about > > setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple questions > > about my convicts as well. Here they are: > > > > 1. My new tank is hexogonal - not easy to find a hood for. It has > > metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top > > (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a hood? > > > > 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids that > > would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a > > couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is > > this a good idea? > > > > 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two for > > this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What if > > I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it > > have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for this > > size tank? > > > > 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have many > > great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new ones > > for the new tank? > > > > 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? And > > should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the new > > tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY > > protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from > danger > > from the other fish? > > > > 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want more > > convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good choices? > > What other options are there, and how many should I have? > > > > I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really > > appreciate any input you have! > > > > TIA, > > > > Cheryl > > :D> >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25720	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Oops, I made a mistake in my calculation. If you look at the footprint of the tank, visualize it as two areas. The first area is 36" x 18" x 21" = 13608 cu in The second is a trapezoid which can be represented by a parallelogram by dividing in half and inverting one of the halves making it's dimensions 22.5" x 4.5" x 21" = 2126.25 cu in 13608 + 2126.25 = 15734.25 cu in 15734.25 divided by 231 = 68.1136 gallon It's been over 45 years since I had solid geometry, but I still remember how :) Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom: huron62@...: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 07:00:15 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice Using the dimensions you gave, I figure the gallons to be 78.5455Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: my_cycling@...: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:03:39 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need adviceThanks so much for the info!! The dementions on my tank are 36" across the back (the longest side) x 24" from front to back (at the longest point) x 21" tall. The shortest distance from front to back is 18" (at the point of the triangle closest to the back). The front side (short side) is 22.5" and each hex corner is 8.5". So here's the final rundownSide 1. 36"Side 2. 8"Side 3. 8"Side 4. 8.5"Side 5. 8.5"Side 6. 22.5"Total 91.5"Height 21"Let me know what you think the volume is.Thanks for the info on the fish, RE: stunted growth. It makes sense. I've never had a fish live for longer than a year (I've never really kept fish with long life spans, mostly goldfish, neon tetras etc.) My dad had a big tank, but he had no idea what he was doing and they all kept dying. Fish would die, he would add more, fish would die, he would add more. He probably had incompatable fish together, was overstocked, and I don't think he ever did a water change or checked the levels on anything. It's so good to have a little info so that you can do better. I'm hoping that I'm moving my convicts soon enough and that they're not stunted.My current tank design is half planted and half caves. I have rock caves and a broken terra cotta pot on one side of the tank, with plants on the other and a rock cave there too. The breeding area is on the non planted part of the tank of course, and most of their time is spent there as well. But before I got them I read that it would be good for the female to have some hiding spots, so I included plants to give her (and the potential fry) some additional cover. So far they have not uprooted many of them, and I love how the plants grow and offer a natural food source for the fish. I don't mind that they munch on them (in fact I like it).I did want to ask if there are any NON-cichlid companions that could join my convicts? And could any NON-Central American cichlids do well with them? I know the cons are very aggressive, so anything with them has to be either bigger or equally as aggressive as they are. Oh - and when you're telling me which companions I might pick, if you can use common names if they have them it would help. ;)TIA,Cheryl:D--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote:>> Hi Cheryl, I'll try to pick up from here on this: (1) As for a hood > for your tank, there should be one available. Try Drs Foster & Smith > (< DrsFosterSmith.com >) or That Fish Place (< www.thatfishplace.com > >). You'll need to measure your Flat Back Hex tank to be able to > tell them the size (to fit the hood).> > (2) As for the best substrate, probably #3 (or #2 if you prefer)> commercial grade gravel is about as good as any, although I see you > have 3M Colorquartz in mind, which is much smaller in size. The two > on-line retailers mentioned above also carry aquarium gravel in many > different colors, or you should be able to buy (or order) Clifford W. > Estes aquarium gravel from your LFS, also in many different colors.> > (3) This has been given an answer -- we need to know the volume of > your tank, or at least its dimensions.> > (4) Many Cichlids won't tolerate plants in their vicinity, as they > prefer a clear vision of their territory to protect it. Its > surprising that your Convict put up with them, but I suspect there > were no plants nearby their spawning site. If you're still > contemplating an Oscar, which may be doable depending on the tank > size, know that they WILL NOT allow any plants to remain rooted. I > wood leave your present tank planted if you're going to use it for > other species, unless you're going to use that tank as a > hospital/quarantine tank -- which everyone should have. In any case, > why uproot well established plants unless you really need to.> > (5) Many Cichlids will not take kindly to being moved with their fry, > although Convicts are one of those which are extremely protective of > their progeny and may put up with it with no problem. What most > often happens when interfering with a breeding pair of Cichlids and > their fry is that they will eat them rather than have this "predator" > (YOU, as they perceive this) consume them. In that way, they can use > the nutrition to spawn again to start another brood where the present > one would have been devoured by the predator -- or at least in the > wild, and they think no differently in captivity when confronted with > such a stress. > > I would not attempt it, but if you prefer, the best way to move the > fry (if they're in a tight school) is to syphon them out into a > recepticle (bucket, for instance) using a length of flexible clear > plastic hose, which every hobbyist should have on hand (for various > uses). Barring that, if they're swimming more loosely, you'll have > to first remove the parents (they'll attack the net, especially if > you try to get the fry) and then use a fine net (depending on the > size of the fry) to sweep the fry up, using a figure-eight motion. > You may need to remove some plants if they migrate back into them.> > (6) You may be able to house an Oscar if the tank is large enough, > although that's not necessarily the best tankmate for the Convicts. > They'll get along, only because the Convicts are very scrappy for > their size, so the Oscar will avoid their area after a while. Better > tankmates might be other medium sized Central American Cichlids > instead, as the Convict are. They could include Archocentrus > centrarcus, A. (Herotilapia) multispinnosa, Cryptoheros sajica, C. > cutteri or Thorichthys meeki. If your Pleco (I think I read you had > one) is of the common variety, it can can upwards of 22 " - 24" if > not yet stunted. I would recommend a species of Bushy-Nose Pleco's > instead. Ray> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@> > wrote:> >> > Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on > > craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm thinking > > 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding pair > > of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 > > weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 gal. > > tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't plan > to > > keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will > > continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give > them > > away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions > about > > setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple questions > > about my convicts as well. Here they are: > > > > 1. My new tank is hexogonal - not easy to find a hood for. It has > > metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top > > (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a hood? > > > > 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids that > > would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a > > couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is > > this a good idea? > > > > 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two for > > this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What if > > I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it > > have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for this > > size tank? > > > > 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have many > > great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new ones > > for the new tank? > > > > 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? And > > should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the new > > tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY > > protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from > danger > > from the other fish? > > > > 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want more > > convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good choices? > > What other options are there, and how many should I have? > > > > I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really > > appreciate any input you have! > > > > TIA, > > > > Cheryl > > :D> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25721	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Um... I think you have figured wrong... You have figured the measurement front to back as 18" when it is in fact 24". If Cheryl in fact had a square tank, the footprint would be 24" x 36" x 21" = 18144 cu in. Divided by 231 would be 78.5455 gallons. Now you must subtract the size of the "triangles". The triangles measure 4.5" x 6.75" x 21" = 637.875 cu in divided by 231 = 2.7614 gallons: 78.5455 -2.7614 = 75.7841 gallons Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: sevenspringss@...: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:11:49 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice Somewhere in your calculations, you're using Cheryl's dimensions wrong. A full-sized 36" x 18" x 21" aquarium will have a capacity of approximately 59 gallons -- this is without taking off the two front "corners" (allowing for the two short angled front panels) which would decrease this volume. The tank can hold no more than 59 gallons, and will hold less because of the angled front panels. Ray--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@...> wrote:>> > Using the dimensions you gave, I figure the gallons to be 78.5455> > Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.> > > To: AquaticLife@...: my_cycling@...: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:03:39 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice> > > > > Thanks so much for the info!! The dementions on my tank are 36" across the back (the longest side) x 24" from front to back (at the longest point) x 21" tall. The shortest distance from front to back is 18" (at the point of the triangle closest to the back). The front side (short side) is 22.5" and each hex corner is 8.5". So here's the final rundownSide 1. 36"Side 2. 8"Side 3. 8"Side 4. 8.5"Side 5. 8.5"Side 6. 22.5"Total 91.5"Height 21"Let me know what you think the volume is.Thanks for the info on the fish, RE: stunted growth. It makes sense. I've never had a fish live for longer than a year (I've never really kept fish with long life spans, mostly goldfish, neon tetras etc.) My dad had a big tank, but he had no idea what he was doing and they all kept dying. Fish would die, he would add more, fish would die, he would add more. He probably had incompatable fish together, was overstocked, and I don't think he ever did a water change or checked the levels on anything. It's so good to have a little info so that you can do better. I'm hoping that I'm moving my convicts soon enough and that they're not stunted.My current tank design is half planted and half caves. I have rock caves and a broken terra cotta pot on one side of the tank, with plants on the other and a rock cave there too. The breeding area is on the non planted part of the tank of course, and most of their time is spent there as well. But before I got them I read that it would be good for the female to have some hiding spots, so I included plants to give her (and the potential fry) some additional cover. So far they have not uprooted many of them, and I love how the plants grow and offer a natural food source for the fish. I don't mind that they munch on them (in fact I like it).I did want to ask if there are any NON-cichlid companions that could join my convicts? And could any NON-Central American cichlids do well with them? I know the cons are very aggressive, so anything with them has to be either bigger or equally as aggressive as they are. Oh - and when you're telling me which companions I might pick, if you can use common names if they have them it would help. ;)TIA,Cheryl:D--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote:>> Hi Cheryl, I'll try to pick up from here on this: (1) As for a hood > for your tank, there should be one available. Try Drs Foster & Smith > (< DrsFosterSmith.com >) or That Fish Place (< www.thatfishplace.com > >). You'll need to measure your Flat Back Hex tank to be able to > tell them the size (to fit the hood).> > (2) As for the best substrate, probably #3 (or #2 if you prefer)> commercial grade gravel is about as good as any, although I see you > have 3M Colorquartz in mind, which is much smaller in size. The two > on-line retailers mentioned above also carry aquarium gravel in many > different colors, or you should be able to buy (or order) Clifford W. > Estes aquarium gravel from your LFS, also in many different colors.> > (3) This has been given an answer -- we need to know the volume of > your tank, or at least its dimensions.> > (4) Many Cichlids won't tolerate plants in their vicinity, as they > prefer a clear vision of their territory to protect it. Its > surprising that your Convict put up with them, but I suspect there > were no plants nearby their spawning site. If you're still > contemplating an Oscar, which may be doable depending on the tank > size, know that they WILL NOT allow any plants to remain rooted. I > wood leave your present tank planted if you're going to use it for > other species, unless you're going to use that tank as a > hospital/quarantine tank -- which everyone should have. In any case, > why uproot well established plants unless you really need to.> > (5) Many Cichlids will not take kindly to being moved with their fry, > although Convicts are one of those which are extremely protective of > their progeny and may put up with it with no problem. What most > often happens when interfering with a breeding pair of Cichlids and > their fry is that they will eat them rather than have this "predator" > (YOU, as they perceive this) consume them. In that way, they can use > the nutrition to spawn again to start another brood where the present > one would have been devoured by the predator -- or at least in the > wild, and they think no differently in captivity when confronted with > such a stress. > > I would not attempt it, but if you prefer, the best way to move the > fry (if they're in a tight school) is to syphon them out into a > recepticle (bucket, for instance) using a length of flexible clear > plastic hose, which every hobbyist should have on hand (for various > uses). Barring that, if they're swimming more loosely, you'll have > to first remove the parents (they'll attack the net, especially if > you try to get the fry) and then use a fine net (depending on the > size of the fry) to sweep the fry up, using a figure-eight motion. > You may need to remove some plants if they migrate back into them.> > (6) You may be able to house an Oscar if the tank is large enough, > although that's not necessarily the best tankmate for the Convicts. > They'll get along, only because the Convicts are very scrappy for > their size, so the Oscar will avoid their area after a while. Better > tankmates might be other medium sized Central American Cichlids > instead, as the Convict are. They could include Archocentrus > centrarcus, A. (Herotilapia) multispinnosa, Cryptoheros sajica, C. > cutteri or Thorichthys meeki. If your Pleco (I think I read you had > one) is of the common variety, it can can upwards of 22 " - 24" if > not yet stunted. I would recommend a species of Bushy-Nose Pleco's > instead. Ray> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@> > wrote:> >> > Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on > > craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm thinking > > 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding pair > > of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 > > weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 gal. > > tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't plan > to > > keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will > > continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give > them > > away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions > about > > setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple questions > > about my convicts as well. Here they are: > > > > 1. My new tank is hexogonal -not easy to find a hood for. It has > > metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top > > (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a hood? > > > > 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids that > > would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a > > couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is > > this a good idea? > > > > 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two for > > this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What if > > I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it > > have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for this > > size tank? > > > > 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have many > > great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new ones > > for the new tank? > > > > 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? And > > should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the new > > tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY > > protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from > danger > > from the other fish? > > > > 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want more > > convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good choices? > > What other options are there, and how many should I have? > > > > I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really > > appreciate any input you have! > > > > TIA, > > > > Cheryl > > :D> >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25722	From: hank voss	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: Jeanie: Another bit of information on this thread.Two females will also go through the the breeding proceedure.If this is the case then you will never get fertileeggs. HANK > Hi: > > My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my > 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started > snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with > slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The > eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy > stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? > > A >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25723	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Cheryl said: "...Thanks for the info on the fish, RE: stunted growth. It makes sense. I've never had a fish live for longer than a year (I've never really kept fish with long life spans, mostly goldfish, neon tetras etc.)..." Hi Cheryl, I see others have gone over the measurements with you but I want to address this one snippet out of your post. When you say that you've never kept fish with long life spans and mentioned goldfish, I wanted to clarify something for you. Goldfish should live for a LONGGGGGG time. Fancy goldfish have shorter lifespans but should still make it 15-20 years although many do have internal genetic defects due to the inbreeding/crossbreeding so many do not make it that long. Long bodied goldfish should make it for over 25 years and the record by several goldfish is over 40 years right now. Many larger aquarium fish live for long life spans. Now many of the smaller tropicals do have shorter lifespans but should still make it 3-5+ years. Here is my blog article I've been working on a few years that lists the expected lifespans of hundreds of common aquarium fish. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l (If the link breaks, just go to my main blog and the link is on the right side). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of my_cycling Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 2:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice Thanks so much for the info!! The dementions on my tank are 36" across the back (the longest side) x 24" from front to back (at the longest point) x 21" tall. The shortest distance from front to back is 18" (at the point of the triangle closest to the back). The front side (short side) is 22.5" and each hex corner is 8.5". So here's the final rundown Side 1. 36" Side 2. 8" Side 3. 8" Side 4. 8.5" Side 5. 8.5" Side 6. 22.5" Total 91.5" Height 21" Let me know what you think the volume is. Thanks for the info on the fish, RE: stunted growth. It makes sense. I've never had a fish live for longer than a year (I've never really kept fish with long life spans, mostly goldfish, neon tetras etc.) My dad had a big tank, but he had no idea what he was doing and they all kept dying. Fish would die, he would add more, fish would die, he would add more. He probably had incompatable fish together, was overstocked, and I don't think he ever did a water change or checked the levels on anything. It's so good to have a little info so that you can do better. I'm hoping that I'm moving my convicts soon enough and that they're not stunted. My current tank design is half planted and half caves. I have rock caves and a broken terra cotta pot on one side of the tank, with plants on the other and a rock cave there too. The breeding area is on the non planted part of the tank of course, and most of their time is spent there as well. But before I got them I read that it would be good for the female to have some hiding spots, so I included plants to give her (and the potential fry) some additional cover. So far they have not uprooted many of them, and I love how the plants grow and offer a natural food source for the fish. I don't mind that they munch on them (in fact I like it). I did want to ask if there are any NON-cichlid companions that could join my convicts? And could any NON-Central American cichlids do well with them? I know the cons are very aggressive, so anything with them has to be either bigger or equally as aggressive as they are. Oh - and when you're telling me which companions I might pick, if you can use common names if they have them it would help. ;) TIA, Cheryl :D --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Cheryl, I'll try to pick up from here on this: (1) As for a hood > for your tank, there should be one available. Try Drs Foster & Smith > (< DrsFosterSmith.com >) or That Fish Place (< www.thatfishplace.com > >). You'll need to measure your Flat Back Hex tank to be able to > tell them the size (to fit the hood). > > (2) As for the best substrate, probably #3 (or #2 if you prefer) > commercial grade gravel is about as good as any, although I see you > have 3M Colorquartz in mind, which is much smaller in size. The two > on-line retailers mentioned above also carry aquarium gravel in many > different colors, or you should be able to buy (or order) Clifford W. > Estes aquarium gravel from your LFS, also in many different colors. > > (3) This has been given an answer -- we need to know the volume of > your tank, or at least its dimensions. > > (4) Many Cichlids won't tolerate plants in their vicinity, as they > prefer a clear vision of their territory to protect it. Its > surprising that your Convict put up with them, but I suspect there > were no plants nearby their spawning site. If you're still > contemplating an Oscar, which may be doable depending on the tank > size, know that they WILL NOT allow any plants to remain rooted. I > wood leave your present tank planted if you're going to use it for > other species, unless you're going to use that tank as a > hospital/quarantine tank -- which everyone should have. In any case, > why uproot well established plants unless you really need to. > > (5) Many Cichlids will not take kindly to being moved with their fry, > although Convicts are one of those which are extremely protective of > their progeny and may put up with it with no problem. What most > often happens when interfering with a breeding pair of Cichlids and > their fry is that they will eat them rather than have this "predator" > (YOU, as they perceive this) consume them. In that way, they can use > the nutrition to spawn again to start another brood where the present > one would have been devoured by the predator -- or at least in the > wild, and they think no differently in captivity when confronted with > such a stress. > > I would not attempt it, but if you prefer, the best way to move the > fry (if they're in a tight school) is to syphon them out into a > recepticle (bucket, for instance) using a length of flexible clear > plastic hose, which every hobbyist should have on hand (for various > uses). Barring that, if they're swimming more loosely, you'll have > to first remove the parents (they'll attack the net, especially if > you try to get the fry) and then use a fine net (depending on the > size of the fry) to sweep the fry up, using a figure-eight motion. > You may need to remove some plants if they migrate back into them. > > (6) You may be able to house an Oscar if the tank is large enough, > although that's not necessarily the best tankmate for the Convicts. > They'll get along, only because the Convicts are very scrappy for > their size, so the Oscar will avoid their area after a while. Better > tankmates might be other medium sized Central American Cichlids > instead, as the Convict are. They could include Archocentrus > centrarcus, A. (Herotilapia) multispinnosa, Cryptoheros sajica, C. > cutteri or Thorichthys meeki. If your Pleco (I think I read you had > one) is of the common variety, it can can upwards of 22 " - 24" if > not yet stunted. I would recommend a species of Bushy-Nose Pleco's > instead. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "my_cycling" <my_cycling@> > wrote: > > > > Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on > > craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm thinking > > 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding pair > > of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 > > weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 gal. > > tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't plan > to > > keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will > > continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give > them > > away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions > about > > setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple questions > > about my convicts as well. Here they are: > > > > 1. My new tank is hexogonal - not easy to find a hood for. It has > > metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top > > (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a hood? > > > > 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids that > > would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a > > couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is > > this a good idea? > > > > 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two for > > this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What if > > I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it > > have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for this > > size tank? > > > > 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have many > > great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new ones > > for the new tank? > > > > 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? And > > should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the new > > tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY > > protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from > danger > > from the other fish? > > > > 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want more > > convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good choices? > > What other options are there, and how many should I have? > > > > I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really > > appreciate any input you have! > > > > TIA, > > > > Cheryl > > :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1259 - Release Date: 2/4/2008 8:42 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

I concur that it's a 75G tank. The two missing triangles would form a rectangle of 6" x 7" x 21"H so this would be deducted from the rectangular volume of (36x24x21/231=78.5) - (6x7x21/231=3.8G) = 74.7G U.S. We might have to ask the MathClub Yahoo Group to start watching our posts. ;-) (Is there even a MathClub Yahoo Group?.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ''Grey'' Greymane Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:03 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice Um... I think you have figured wrong... You have figured the measurement front to back as 18" when it is in fact 24". If Cheryl in fact had a square tank, the footprint would be 24" x 36" x 21" = 18144 cu in. Divided by 231 would be 78.5455 gallons. Now you must subtract the size of the "triangles". The triangles measure 4.5" x 6.75" x 21" = 637.875 cu in divided by 231 = 2.7614 gallons: 78.5455 -2.7614 = 75.7841 gallons Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> : Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:11:49 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice Somewhere in your calculations, you're using Cheryl's dimensions wrong. A full-sized 36" x 18" x 21" aquarium will have a capacity of approximately 59 gallons -- this is without taking off the two front "corners" (allowing for the two short angled front panels) which would decrease this volume. The tank can hold no more than 59 gallons, and will hold less because of the angled front panels. Ray--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@...> wrote:>> > Using the dimensions you gave, I figure the gallons to be 78.5455> > Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.> > > To: AquaticLife@...: my_cycling@...: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:03:39 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice> > > > > Thanks so much for the info!! The dementions on my tank are 36" across the back (the longest side) x 24" from front to back (at the longest point) x 21" tall. The shortest distance from front to back is 18" (at the point of the triangle closest to the back). The front side (short side) is 22.5" and each hex corner is 8.5". So here's the final rundownSide 1. 36"Side 2. 8"Side 3. 8"Side 4. 8.5"Side 5. 8.5"Side 6. 22.5"Total 91.5"Height 21"Let me know what you think the volume is.Thanks for the info on the fish, RE: stunted growth. It makes sense. I've never had a fish live for longer than a year (I've never really kept fish with long life spans, mostly goldfish, neon tetras etc.) My dad had a big tank, but he had no idea what he was doing and they all kept dying. Fish would die, he would add more, fish would die, he would add more. He probably had incompatable fish together, was overstocked, and I don't think he ever did a water change or checked the levels on anything. It's so good to have a little info so that you can do better. I'm hoping that I'm moving my convicts soon enough and that they're not stunted.My current tank design is half planted and half caves. I have rock caves and a broken terra cotta pot on one side of the tank, with plants on the other and a rock cave there too. The breeding area is on the non planted part of the tank of course, and most of their time is spent there as well. But before I got them I read that it would be good for the female to have some hiding spots, so I included plants to give her (and the potential fry) some additional cover. So far they have not uprooted many of them, and I love how the plants grow and offer a natural food source for the fish. I don't mind that they munch on them (in fact I like it).I did want to ask if there are any NON-cichlid companions that could join my convicts? And could any NON-Central American cichlids do well with them? I know the cons are very aggressive, so anything with them has to be either bigger or equally as aggressive as they are. Oh - and when you're telling me which companions I might pick, if you can use common names if they have them it would help. ;)TIA,Cheryl:D--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote:>> Hi Cheryl, I'll try to pick up from here on this: (1) As for a hood > for your tank, there should be one available. Try Drs Foster & Smith > (< DrsFosterSmith.com >) or That Fish Place (< www.thatfishplace.com > >). You'll need to measure your Flat Back Hex tank to be able to > tell them the size (to fit the hood).> > (2) As for the best substrate, probably #3 (or #2 if you prefer)> commercial grade gravel is about as good as any, although I see you > have 3M Colorquartz in mind, which is much smaller in size. The two > on-line retailers mentioned above also carry aquarium gravel in many > different colors, or you should be able to buy (or order) Clifford W. > Estes aquarium gravel from your LFS, also in many different colors.> > (3) This has been given an answer -- we need to know the volume of > your tank, or at least its dimensions.> > (4) Many Cichlids won't tolerate plants in their vicinity, as they > prefer a clear vision of their territory to protect it. Its > surprising that your Convict put up with them, but I suspect there > were no plants nearby their spawning site. If you're still > contemplating an Oscar, which may be doable depending on the tank > size, know that they WILL NOT allow any plants to remain rooted. I > wood leave your present tank planted if you're going to use it for > other species, unless you're going to use that tank as a > hospital/quarantine tank -- which everyone should have. In any case, > why uproot well established plants unless you really need to.> > (5) Many Cichlids will not take kindly to being moved with their fry, > although Convicts are one of those which are extremely protective of > their progeny and may put up with it with no problem. What most > often happens when interfering with a breeding pair of Cichlids and > their fry is that they will eat them rather than have this "predator" > (YOU, as they perceive this) consume them. In that way, they can use > the nutrition to spawn again to start another brood where the present > one would have been devoured by the predator -- or at least in the > wild, and they think no differently in captivity when confronted with > such a stress. > > I would not attempt it, but if you prefer, the best way to move the > fry (if they're in a tight school) is to syphon them out into a > recepticle (bucket, for instance) using a length of flexible clear > plastic hose, which every hobbyist should have on hand (for various > uses). Barring that, if they're swimming more loosely, you'll have > to first remove the parents (they'll attack the net, especially if > you try to get the fry) and then use a fine net (depending on the > size of the fry) to sweep the fry up, using a figure-eight motion. > You may need to remove some plants if they migrate back into them.> > (6) You may be able to house an Oscar if the tank is large enough, > although that's not necessarily the best tankmate for the Convicts. > They'll get along, only because the Convicts are very scrappy for > their size, so the Oscar will avoid their area after a while. Better > tankmates might be other medium sized Central American Cichlids > instead, as the Convict are. They could include Archocentrus > centrarcus, A. (Herotilapia) multispinnosa, Cryptoheros sajica, C. > cutteri or Thorichthys meeki. If your Pleco (I think I read you had > one) is of the common variety, it can can upwards of 22 " - 24" if > not yet stunted. I would recommend a species of Bushy-Nose Pleco's > instead. Ray> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "my_cycling" <my_cycling@> > wrote:> >> > Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on > > craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm thinking > > 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding pair > > of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 > > weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 gal. > > tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't plan > to > > keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will > > continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give > them > > away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions > about > > setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple questions > > about my convicts as well. Here they are: > > > > 1. My new tank is hexogonal -not easy to find a hood for. It has > > metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top > > (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a hood? > > > > 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids that > > would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a > > couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is > > this a good idea? > > > > 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two for > > this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What if > > I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it > > have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for this > > size tank? > > > > 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have many > > great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new ones > > for the new tank? > > > > 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? And > > should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the new > > tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY > > protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from > danger > > from the other fish? > > > > 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want more > > convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good choices? > > What other options are there, and how many should I have? > > > > I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really > > appreciate any input you have! > > > > TIA, > > > > Cheryl > > :D> >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1259 - Release Date: 2/4/2008 8:42 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25725	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Bettas

I've been watching the posts from Anndrea regarding the Betta. I inherited a Betta that was in a small bowl for a long time. I gave him a slightly bigger bowl and he seemed happy. One day, he suddlenly died. From what I had been able to piece together, he was 3 years old and from talking to a few pet stores, they indicated that the average life span is about 3 years, so there's a good chance he died of natural causes. I purchased a new betta (another male), and also purchased a Tetra Water Wonder 1.5 gal "tank". The Water Wonder was not the first choice, but got it because it was a better value $$ wise than the first choice. Couple of newbie questions: (1) Is that size tank too big for the betta?? and (2) After reading Anndrea's concerns about other fish with the betta, what fish are "compatibile" with the betta? Also, the the Tetra WaterSafe directions state to use 8 drops per gallon of water. So, based on that 12 drops would be required for 1.5 gallons. Is that a starting point or is that the standard? I will get a water test kit in the near future, but if the chlorine is still too strong, how will I know? Ok, so I have a few more newbie questions that the 2 listed earlier, but like Anndrea, I wish to be an informed betta owner :) Also, the instructions that came with the tank indicated that I should change 25% of the water every 2 or 3 weeks. How accurate is that information and lastly, should I get a heater for the tank? Thanks for listening to the ramblings of a n00b V/R Rob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25726	From: ED	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible day

She's not the first she was just young. I had a boxer mix lived 16yrs.I got her and the male I still have when he passed 3yrs ago. She had some hormonal problems and lost her litter of pups & perhaps more problems than I knew. I know they will be rolling in the grass and dumping the garbage over for all those in heaven. LOL. TY--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Gregg <greggb57@...> wrote: > > I'm terribly sorry to hear of your loss, Ed. As a fellow dog lover, owner > and rescuer, I know how deeply that can affect you. My pack of Shelties > sends their condolences and reminds you that your dog will be waiting for > you at the Rainbow Bridge. > > -- > Gregg Bender > www.nvsr.org > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25727	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

*** 68.1136 gallons (?) -- Wrong-O. Please refer to my post #25719. -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@...> wrote: > > > Oops, I made a mistake in my calculation. If you look at the footprint of the tank, visualize it as two areas. > > The first area is 36" x 18" x 21" = 13608 cu in > > The second is a trapezoid which can be represented by a parallelogram by dividing in half and inverting one of the halves making it's dimensions 22.5" x 4.5" x 21" = 2126.25 cu in > > 13608 + 2126.25 = 15734.25 cu in > > 15734.25 divided by 231 = 68.1136 gallon > > It's been over 45 years since I had solid geometry, but I still remember how :) Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º ((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > To: aquaticlife@...: huron62@...: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 07:00:15 - 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice > > > > > Using the dimensions you gave, I figure the gallons to be 78.5455Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º ((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.To: AquaticLife@...: my_cycling@...: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:03:39 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need adviceThanks so much for the info!! The dementions on my tank are 36" across the back (the longest side) x 24" from front to back (at the longest point) x 21" tall. The shortest distance from front to back is 18" (at the point of the triangle closest to the back). The front side (short side) is 22.5" and each hex corner is 8.5". So here's the final rundownSide 1. 36"Side 2. 8"Side 3. 8"Side 4. 8.5"Side 5. 8.5"Side 6. 22.5"Total 91.5"Height 21"Let me know what you think the volume is.Thanks for the info on the fish, RE: stunted growth. It makes sense. I've never had a fish live for longer than a year (I've never really kept fish with long life spans, mostly goldfish, neon tetras etc.) My dad had a big tank, but he had no idea what he was doing and they all kept dying. Fish would die, he would add more, fish would die, he would add more. He probably had incompatable fish together, was overstocked, and I don't think he ever did a water change or checked the levels on anything. It's so good to have a little info so that you can do better. I'm hoping that I'm moving my convicts soon enough and that they're not stunted.My current tank design is half planted and half caves. I have rock caves and a broken terra cotta pot on one side of the tank, with plants on the other and a rock cave there too. The breeding area is on the non planted part of the tank of course, and most of their time is spent there as well. But before I got them I read that it would be good for the female to have some hiding spots, so I included plants to give her (and the potential fry) some additional cover. So far they have not uprooted many of them, and I love how the plants grow and offer a natural food source for the fish. I don't mind that they munch on them (in fact I like it).I did want to ask if there are any NON-cichlid companions that could join my convicts? And could any NON-Central American cichlids do well with them? I know the cons are very aggressive, so anything with them has to be either bigger or equally as aggressive as they are. Oh - and when you're telling me which companions I might pick, if you can use common names if they have them it would help. ;)TIA,Cheryl:D--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote:>> Hi Cheryl, I'll try to pick up from here on this: (1) As for a hood > for your tank, there should be one available. Try Drs Foster & Smith > (< DrsFosterSmith.com >) or That Fish Place (< www.thatfishplace.com > >). You'll need to measure your Flat Back Hex tank to be able to > tell them the size (to fit the hood).> > (2) As for the best substrate, probably #3 (or #2 if you prefer)> commercial grade gravel is about as good as any, although I see you > have 3M Colorquartz in mind, which is much smaller in size. The two > on-line retailers mentioned above also carry aquarium gravel in many > different colors, or you should be able to buy (or order) Clifford W. > Estes aquarium gravel from your LFS, also in many different colors.> > (3) This has been given an answer -- we need to know the volume of > your tank, or at least its dimensions.> > (4) Many Cichlids won't tolerate plants in their vicinity, as they > prefer a clear vision of their territory to protect it. Its > surprising that your Convict put up with them, but I suspect there > were no plants nearby their spawning site. If you're still > contemplating an Oscar, which may be doable depending on the tank > size, know that they WILL NOT allow any plants to remain rooted. I > wood leave your present tank planted if you're going to use it for > other species, unless you're going to use that tank as a > hospital/quarantine tank -- which everyone should have. In any case, > why uproot well established plants unless you really need to.> > (5) Many Cichlids will not take kindly to being moved with their fry, > although Convicts are one of those which are extremely protective of > their progeny and may put up with it with no problem. What most > often happens when interfering with a breeding pair of Cichlids and > their fry is that they will eat them rather than have this "predator" > (YOU, as they perceive this) consume them. In that way, they can use > the nutrition to spawn again to start another brood where the present > one would have been devoured by the predator -- or at least in the > wild, and they think no differently in captivity when confronted with > such a stress. > > I would not attempt it, but if you prefer, the best way to move the > fry (if they're in a tight school) is to syphon them out into a > recepticle (bucket, for instance) using a length of flexible clear > plastic hose, which every hobbyist should have on hand (for various > uses). Barring that, if they're swimming more loosely, you'll have > to first remove the parents (they'll attack the net, especially if > you try to get the fry) and then use a fine net (depending on the > size of the fry) to sweep the fry up, using a figure-eight motion. > You may need to remove some plants if they migrate back into them.> > (6) You may be able to house an Oscar if the tank is large enough, > although that's not necessarily the best tankmate for the Convicts. > They'll get along, only because the Convicts are very scrappy for > their size, so the Oscar will avoid their area after a while. Better > tankmates might be other medium sized Central American Cichlids > instead, as the Convict are. They could include Archocentrus > centrarcus, A. (Herotilapia) multispinnosa, Cryptoheros sajica, C. > cutteri or Thorichthys meeki. If your Pleco (I think I read you had > one) is of the common variety, it can can upwards of 22 " - 24" if > not yet stunted. I would recommend a species of Bushy-Nose Pleco's > instead. Ray> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@> > wrote:> >> > Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on > > craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm thinking > > 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding pair > > of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 > > weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 gal. > > tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't plan > to > > keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will > > continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give > them > > away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions > about > > setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple questions > > about my convicts as well. Here they are: > > > > 1. My new tank is hexogonal - not easy to find a hood for. It has > > metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top > > (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a hood? > > > > 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids that > > would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a > > couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is > > this a good idea? > > > > 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two for > > this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What if > > I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it > > have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for this > > size tank? > > > > 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have many > > great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new ones > > for the new tank? > > > > 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? And > > should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the new > > tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY > > protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from > danger > > from the other fish? > > > > 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want more > > convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good choices? > > What other options are there, and how many should I have? > > > > I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really > > appreciate any input you have! > > > > TIA, > > > > Cheryl > > :D> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25728	From: ED	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

These folks have some beautiful pics of eggs and fry and well WOW! cool pics. http://home.earthlink.net/~photofish/ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Myself not sure but I did find this http://www.lifeinfozone.com/pets- > products/the-fun-tropical-angel-fish/ > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=158 > http://www.petfishtalk.com/interviews/breeding_angels/breeding_angels. ht > m > > We have angels we are hoping will breed but havn't seen any egg laying. > Hope this helps some. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@> wrote: > > > > Hi: > > > > My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my > > 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started > > snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with > > slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The > > eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy > > stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? > > > > As for the rest of the community, which includes rainbows, tetras, a > > gourami and albino corys, should I move the angels to their own tank > > since they get nippy when with children? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jeannie > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25729	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas

While the average may be 3 years... or probably less, the expected lifespan of a Betta is 7-10 years but since most are kept in undersized bowls/vases, they never make it that long. The 1.5G is much better than a bowl but if you can find a used 10G set up, that would be even better. Give a Betta a 10G planted tank and he'll feel he died and went to heaven. If you can't find a free or cheap used 10G system, I hear Wal-Mart sells a 10G complete system for around $25.00 but I haven't checked this out personally. A 10G is still small enough to sit on most furniture/tables/etc. Anything over 20G should have a proper stand since most furniture is not designed for that kind of weight. For the 1.5G, you should not put any other fish but a live plant or two would be nice. Since a betta grows to 2.5", the 1.5G is technically still undersized but it's much, much better than just a bowl. If it has a small filter system, that makes it even better. If you get a 10G eventually, go to my blog and I have an article called "Hailey's 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions" which will give you suggestions for other fish that can go in a 10G with a Betta. Do NOT put any other fish with the Betta in the 1.5G. The 8 drops per gallon will take care of most chlorine/chloramine issues. I'm sure there may be some municipalities where you would need more but check with your water utility to find out how much they dose the water. If you go to my blog, I have a blog about Chlorine/Chloramine and public water, which includes correspondence between me and my own water utility company. With the Betta in a 1.5G, I would do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) 2-3 times a week.. or at the minimum, once a week. Make sure you vacuum the gravel during these PWC's to remove excess detritus from the gravel. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bettas I've been watching the posts from Anndrea regarding the Betta. I inherited a Betta that was in a small bowl for a long time. I gave him a slightly bigger bowl and he seemed happy. One day, he suddlenly died. From what I had been able to piece together, he was 3 years old and from talking to a few pet stores, they indicated that the average life span is about 3 years, so there's a good chance he died of natural causes. I purchased a new betta (another male), and also purchased a Tetra Water Wonder 1.5 gal "tank". The Water Wonder was not the first choice, but got it because it was a better value $$ wise than the first choice. Couple of newbie questions: (1) Is that size tank too big for the betta?? and (2) After reading Anndrea's concerns about other fish with the betta, what fish are "compatibile" with the betta? Also, the the Tetra WaterSafe directions state to use 8 drops per gallon of water. So, based on that 12 drops would be required for 1.5 gallons. Is that a starting point or is that the standard? I will get a water test kit in the near future, but if the chlorine is still too strong, how will I know? Ok, so I have a few more newbie questions that the 2 listed earlier, but like Anndrea, I wish to be an informed betta owner :) Also, the instructions that came with the tank indicated that I should change 25% of the water every 2 or 3 weeks. How accurate is that information and lastly, should I get a heater for the tank? Thanks for listening to the ramblings of a n00b V/R Rob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1259 - Release Date: 2/4/2008 8:42 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1259 - Release Date: 2/4/2008 8:42 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25730	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

What? Wow! And I thought I had heard it all! Although I've read that two of the same sex can mate, I never thought they'd be able to make eggs! How would one tell? I've heard they're hard to detect the sexes of. Two questions, if I may: In light of all this, is it alright to keep them in the community, or should I move them to a new 29 gallon tank (once established)? The only problem with the latter is that they'd have to be located where I cannot sit and watch them, which wouldn't be good as they're sooooooooo much fun to watch! Other than during the spawning period, they've been very gentle with their tank mates, and the others don't seem to mind (too much) being shooed away during this occasion. Also, what is the best way to get them off of the corner walls if and when this happens again, or should I even bother given that they may be forever infertile? Raymond, Hank and everyone, thank you for being so kind as to help me with this. Jeannie At 09:31 AM 2/5/2008, you wrote: >--- In ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, >Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > >Jeanie: >Another bit of information on this thread.Two females will also >go through the the breeding proceedure.If this is the case then you >will never get fertileeggs. >HANK > > > Hi: > > > > My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my > > 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started > > snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with > > slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The > > eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy > > stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25731	From: ED	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angels laid eggs

UMMMMMM! WOW! to the pics on the page I found for INFO. These are not pics from Jeanie. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > What? Wow! And I thought I had heard it all! Although I've read > that two of the same sex can mate, I never thought they'd be able to > make eggs! How would one tell? I've heard they're hard to detect > the sexes of. > > Two questions, if I may: > > In light of all this, is it alright to keep them in the community, or > should I move them to a new 29 gallon tank (once established)? The > only problem with the latter is that they'd have to be located where > I cannot sit and watch them, which wouldn't be good as they're > sooooooooo much fun to watch! Other than during the spawning period, > they've been very gentle with their tank mates, and the others don't > seem to mind (too much) being shooed away during this occasion. > > Also, what is the best way to get them off of the corner walls if and > when this happens again, or should I even bother given that they may > be forever infertile? > > Raymond, Hank and everyone, thank you for being so kind as to help me > with this. > > Jeannie > > At 09:31 AM 2/5/2008, you wrote: > > >--- In > ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > >Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@> wrote: > > > >Jeanie: > >Another bit of information on this thread.Two females will also > >go through the the breeding proceedure.If this is the case then you > >will never get fertileeggs. > >HANK > > > > > Hi: > > > > > > My 2 month old angel fish laid eggs along the rear corner wall of my > > > 55 gallon community tank last Thursday. Yesterday, dad started > > > snacking on them so I moved them to a small plastic breeder box (with > > > slots for fresh water filtering) that hangs inside the big one. The > > > eggs are all lumped together in what looks like a cocoon of fuzzy > > > stuff. Is this normal, or are they getting moldy? > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25732	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Okay, its not that I figured wrong, but I did use the wrong dimensions (thanks for pointing that out). That explains all the discrepancies, although I didn't see where at first. Somehow, I had misread Cheryl's tank to be 48" x 18" x 21" instead of 48" x 24" x 21" (by reading over it too fast) In using the right measurements, I now come up with the same answer. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@...> wrote: > > > Um... I think you have figured wrong... You have figured the measurement front to back as 18" when it is in fact 24". If Cheryl in fact had a square tank, the footprint would be 24" x 36" x 21" = 18144 cu in. Divided by 231 would be 78.5455 gallons. Now you must subtract the size of the "triangles". The triangles measure 4.5" x 6.75" x 21" = 637.875 cu in divided by 231 = 2.7614 gallons: > > 78.5455 -2.7614 = 75.7841 gallons > Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º ((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > To: AquaticLife@...: sevenspringss@...: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:11:49 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice > > > > > Somewhere in your calculations, you're using Cheryl's dimensions wrong. A full-sized 36" x 18" x 21" aquarium will have a capacity of approximately 59 gallons -- this is without taking off the two front "corners" (allowing for the two short angled front panels) which would decrease this volume. The tank can hold no more than 59 gallons, and will hold less because of the angled front panels. Ray--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@> wrote:>> > Using the dimensions you gave, I figure the gallons to be 78.5455> > Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º ((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.> > > To: AquaticLife@: my_cycling@: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:03:39 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice> > > > > Thanks so much for the info!! The dementions on my tank are 36" across the back (the longest side) x 24" from front to back (at the longest point) x 21" tall. The shortest distance from front to back is 18" (at the point of the triangle closest to the back). The front side (short side) is 22.5" and each hex corner is 8.5". So here's the final rundownSide 1. 36"Side 2. 8"Side 3. 8"Side 4. 8.5"Side 5. 8.5"Side 6. 22.5"Total 91.5"Height 21"Let me know what you think the volume is.Thanks for the info on the fish, RE: stunted growth. It makes sense. I've never had a fish live for longer than a year (I've never really kept fish with long life spans, mostly goldfish, neon tetras etc.) My dad had a big tank, but he had no idea what he was doing and they all kept dying. Fish would die, he would add more, fish would die, he would add more. He probably had incompatable fish together, was overstocked, and I don't think he ever did a water change or checked the levels on anything. It's so good to have a little info so that you can do better. I'm hoping that I'm moving my convicts soon enough and that they're not stunted.My current tank design is half planted and half caves. I have rock caves and a broken terra cotta pot on one side of the tank, with plants on the other and a rock cave there too. The breeding area is on the non planted part of the tank of course, and most of their time is spent there as well. But before I got them I read that it would be good for the female to have some hiding spots, so I included plants to give her (and the potential fry) some additional cover. So far they have not uprooted many of them, and I love how the plants grow and offer a natural food source for the fish. I don't mind that they munch on them (in fact I like it).I did want to ask if there are any NON-cichlid companions that could join my convicts? And could any NON-Central American cichlids do well with them? I know the cons are very aggressive, so anything with them has to be either bigger or equally as aggressive as they are. Oh - and when you're telling me which companions I might pick, if you can use common names if they have them it would help. ;)TIA,Cheryl:D--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote:>> Hi Cheryl, I'll try to pick up from here on this: (1) As for a hood > for your tank, there should be one available. Try Drs Foster & Smith > (< DrsFosterSmith.com >) or That Fish Place (< www.thatfishplace.com > >). You'll need to measure your Flat Back Hex tank to be able to > tell them the size (to fit the hood).> > (2) As for the best substrate, probably #3 (or #2 if you prefer)> commercial grade gravel is about as good as any, although I see you > have 3M Colorquartz in mind, which is much smaller in size. The two > on-line retailers mentioned above also carry aquarium gravel in many > different colors, or you should be able to buy (or order) Clifford W. > Estes aquarium gravel from your LFS, also in many different colors.> > (3) This has been given an answer -- we need to know the volume of > your tank, or at least its dimensions.> > (4) Many Cichlids won't tolerate plants in their vicinity, as they > prefer a clear vision of their territory to protect it. Its > surprising that your Convict put up with them, but I suspect there > were no plants nearby their spawning site. If you're still > contemplating an Oscar, which may be doable depending on the tank > size, know that they WILL NOT allow any plants to remain rooted. I > wood leave your present tank planted if you're going to use it for > other species, unless you're going to use that tank as a > hospital/quarantine tank -- which everyone should have. In any case, > why uproot well established plants unless you really need to.> > (5) Many Cichlids will not take kindly to being moved with their fry, > although Convicts are one of those which are extremely protective of > their progeny and may put up with it with no problem. What most > often happens when interfering with a breeding pair of Cichlids and > their fry is that they will eat them rather than have this "predator" > (YOU, as they perceive this) consume them. In that way, they can use > the nutrition to spawn again to start another brood where the present > one would have been devoured by the predator -- or at least in the > wild, and they think no differently in captivity when confronted with > such a stress. > > I would not attempt it, but if you prefer, the best way to move the > fry (if they're in a tight school) is to syphon them out into a > recepticle (bucket, for instance) using a length of flexible clear > plastic hose, which every hobbyist should have on hand (for various > uses). Barring that, if they're swimming more loosely, you'll have > to first remove the parents (they'll attack the net, especially if > you try to get the fry) and then use a fine net (depending on the > size of the fry) to sweep the fry up, using a figure-eight motion. > You may need to remove some plants if they migrate back into them.> > (6) You may be able to house an Oscar if the tank is large enough, > although that's not necessarily the best tankmate for the Convicts. > They'll get along, only because the Convicts are very scrappy for > their size, so the Oscar will avoid their area after a while. Better > tankmates might be other medium sized Central American Cichlids > instead, as the Convict are. They could include Archocentrus > centrarcus, A. (Herotilapia) multispinnosa, Cryptoheros sajica, C. > cutteri or Thorichthys meeki. If your Pleco (I think I read you had > one) is of the common variety, it can can upwards of 22 " - 24" if > not yet stunted. I would recommend a species of Bushy-Nose Pleco's > instead. Ray> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@> > wrote:> >> > Hi. I'm new to cichlids and starting a new tank. I got it on > > craigslist for $25, and I'm not sure what size it is, I'm thinking > > 40-55 gal. It has nothing, not even a hood. I have a breeding pair > > of convict cichlids with a small brood of fry which are about 2 > > weeks old. This little family has been living alone in my 10 gal. > > tank and are definately ready to move to a new home. I don't plan > to > > keep any of the fry, especially since I know mom and dad will > > continue to breed like rabbits, I'm going to do my best to give > them > > away when they're big enough. Anyway, I have several questions > about > > setting up my new tank, and I'm gonna throw in a couple questions > > about my convicts as well. Here they are: > > > > 1. My new tank is hexogonal - not easy to find a hood for. It has > > metal supports on top that form a rectangle in the center on top > > (does that make any sense?). Anyway, what would you do for a hood? > > > > 2. What is the best substrate for convicts and other cichlids that > > would be good tankmates for them? I was thinking of combining a > > couple different sizes of substrate, such as sand and gravel, is > > this a good idea? > > > > 3. I was thinking of trying to make a DIY sponge filter or two for > > this tank, but I have a few concerns. How big do I make it? What if > > I botch it & it doesn't end up working properly? How big does it > > have to be to work for this size tank? How many do I need for this > > size tank? > > > > 4. I'm going to plant the tank as best I can, I already have many > > great plants in my tank, should I transplant them, or get new ones > > for the new tank? > > > > 5. What's the best way to move fry from one tank to the other? And > > should I move them? I'm planning to get some other fish for the new > > tank, would the fry be in danger? The convict parents are VERY > > protective of them, would that be enough to keep the fry from > danger > > from the other fish? > > > > 6. What are the best tankmates for my convicts? I don't want more > > convicts. I do want an oscar and a pleco, are those good choices? > > What other options are there, and how many should I have? > > > > I know the questions are many and complicated, but I really > > appreciate any input you have! > > > > TIA, > > > > Cheryl > > :D> >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25733	From: ED	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Angel Breeding Info

This page is full of info http://members.aol.com/angelbook/index.htm Duh! AOL Angelbook. Kinda makes sense huh?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25734	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Breeding Info

Wouldn't pull up, but this one did - must be case sensitive - http://members.aol.com/AngelBook/index.htm Thanks, Ed. :-* At 11:06 AM 2/5/2008, you wrote: >This page is full of info > ><http://members.aol.com/angelbook/index.htm>http://members.aol.com/angelbook/index.htm > >Duh! AOL Angelbook. Kinda makes sense huh? > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: >269.19.20/1260 - Release Date: 2/5/2008 9:44 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25735	From: ED	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Breeding Info

We've got 2 1yr old blushing(bleeding) heart angels, 1 koi angel, 1 black and white(transparent fins),1 marble lace(long fins), 1 black /white lace(long fins). Hoping to get them to breed.--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > Wouldn't pull up, but this one did - must be case > sensitive - http://members.aol.com/AngelBook/index.htm > > Thanks, Ed. :-* > > At 11:06 AM 2/5/2008, you wrote: > > >This page is full of info > > > ><http://members.aol.com/angelbook/index.htm>http://members.aol.com/an gelbook/index.htm > > > >Duh! AOL Angelbook. Kinda makes sense huh? > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: > >269.19.20/1260 - Release Date: 2/5/2008 9:44 AM > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25736	From: Anita	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....

Hi - I am new and previously lurking list member. I'm working on a fishless cycle with my first aquarium and I have some questions about exactly what's going on in there. I'm not panicked, just curious. I apologize for a lengthy first post .but I can either ask the questions now and provide details later – or just give you the details upfront before you ask. So I'm going to give the details ;-) I'm also cross posting this to several lists – so feel free to skip it if you've seen it before! On 1/26 I set up an Eclipse 5 system (corner unit) with the intention of adding a single betta fish. It is live planted with the following: - 1 each of c. balansae and c. wendtii in clay pots with gravel substrate and Fluorite supplements - several anubius nana petite tied to rocks - 1 Java fern that is currently in a pot, but will be tied to driftwood - Floating wisteria The tank bottom is bare aside from some cleaned rocks lying around. I have a whisper pump with an air stone, and a 50 watt stealth heater set to 80 degrees. I have been testing the water with an API Freshwater Master test kit, and API GH/KH test kit. My tap water tested as follows: PH 7.6 Ammonia 0 ppm Nitrates 0 ppm Nitrates 5 ppm GH 9 KH 3 I filled the tank with tap water and added enough ammonia to bring it up to 4 ppm. Then I tested daily, but nothing changed until day 5 when the following showed up: PH 7.6 Ammo 2 Nitrites >.50 but < 1.0 Nitrates 10 I added enough ammonia to take it back to 4 ppm. The next day the Ammo didn't go down, but Nitrites went to 1 and Nitrates went to 20. I didn't do anything to the tank that day. The next day I got: PH 7.6 Ammo 2 (I didn't add ammonia this time) Nitrites 5 ppm Nitrates 40 ppm Then I decided to test after 12 hours and got the following: PH 7.6 Ammo .50 Nitrites 5 Nitrates 40 Added ammonia to get to 4 ppm and tested again 12 hours later when I got: PH 7.6 Ammo 1 Nitrites 1 Nitrates 40 Added ammonia to get to 4 ppm and tested again 12 hours later when I got: PH 7.2 Ammo .25 Nitrites 1 Nitrates 40 GH 15 (up from 9 and I only tested becuase of the change in PH) KH 3 Added ammonia to get to 4 ppm and 12 hours later: PH 6.8 Ammo .50 Nitrites 1 Nitrates 10 GH 18 I'm starting to wonder what the continuing drop in PH means, but I added ammonia to get to 4 ppm and 12 hours later (this morning) I got: PH 6 Ammo .25 Nitrites 1 Nitrates > 5 but < 10 GH 18 When I left this morning I had raised to ammonia back to 4 ppm. I think I understand what's going on with the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates (and I think it looks promising .) but my questions are: 1) Should I be concerned (and/or do anything about) the drop in PH during the cycle? 2) There appears to be some connection between the PH and GH – can somebody explain to me what that connection is? 3) I know the current PH and GH are not good for fish and I could correct both with partial water changes, but should I bother with that right now? 4) Will this level of PH and GH hurt the plants? Again I apologize for the length – but I truly appreciate any explanations or suggestions you can offer! Anita

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25737	From: Cory Walter	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas

I have a male betta and a cory cat in a 10 gallon aquarium and they are perfectly content. He had been in a betta tank by hisself because he had what appeared to be a bad attitude, but he has calmed down drastically sinced being put in the 10 gallon tank. In my 30 gallon tank, I have 2 angels, 1 each, blueberry and strawberry tetras, a black neon and a beautiful docil dreamsicle colored betta. There has never been any attitudes or fighting in this tank. There are a lot of different opinions about putting other fish with a betta, but I've never had a problem with mine. Good luck with yours..... Cory S. Walter Have a wonderful, blessed day! ----- Original Message ---- From: Robert Mazur <rpmazur@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2008 9:40:25 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Bettas I've been watching the posts from Anndrea regarding the Betta. I inherited a Betta that was in a small bowl for a long time. I gave him a slightly bigger bowl and he seemed happy. One day, he suddlenly died. From what I had been able to piece together, he was 3 years old and from talking to a few pet stores, they indicated that the average life span is about 3 years, so there's a good chance he died of natural causes. I purchased a new betta (another male), and also purchased a Tetra Water Wonder 1.5 gal "tank". The Water Wonder was not the first choice, but got it because it was a better value $$ wise than the first choice. Couple of newbie questions: (1) Is that size tank too big for the betta?? and (2) After reading Anndrea's concerns about other fish with the betta, what fish are "compatibile" with the betta? Also, the the Tetra WaterSafe directions state to use 8 drops per gallon of water. So, based on that 12 drops would be required for 1.5 gallons. Is that a starting point or is that the standard? I will get a water test kit in the near future, but if the chlorine is still too strong, how will I know? Ok, so I have a few more newbie questions that the 2 listed earlier, but like Anndrea, I wish to be an informed betta owner :) Also, the instructions that came with the tank indicated that I should change 25% of the water every 2 or 3 weeks. How accurate is that information and lastly, should I get a heater for the tank? Thanks for listening to the ramblings of a n00b V/R Rob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25738	From: Jim	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Pictures

I have posted some pictures of my Angel breeding pairs and in some cases some of their fry. Album is called Greymane. Now will have to wait to see if they are approved. I see that I need to bone up a bit on my photography (and clean my tank surfaces before I make more attempts. Comments encouraged. Grey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25739	From: ED	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Pictures

They look pretty good. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <huron62@...> wrote: > > I have posted some pictures of my Angel breeding pairs and in some > cases some of their fry. Album is called Greymane. Now will have to > wait to see if they are approved. > > I see that I need to bone up a bit on my photography (and clean my tank > surfaces before I make more attempts. Comments encouraged. > > Grey >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25740	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas

I don't have any answers for you, other than I switched from talking to Petsmart to talking to Petco (my aunt swears by them), and I had asked them about all of this, and they said the chances of the betta being why my tetras died are slim to none. I also asked why I can never find my betta in my tank, and she said that bettas love to hide. They prefer small spaces they can get into. She did NOT say the smaller the bowl/tank the better, just that if they have a really good hiding spot, make sure not to take that away from them. So, I would say just on what she said and the behavior so far of the only betta I have ever had (though I have only had her a week and a half) is that I agree with people saying 5 or 10 gallon tank would be better, but not all open water. I have a rock formation and somoe live plants in there now, and I can never find her, so she has a great hiding spot. My only issue now is she doesn't even come out when I feed them...I haven't figured that one out, but I'm sure I will. Good luck, and I'll be following your thread on here as well (maybe I will learn a lot from this too...lol). anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25741	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas

OOPS, I forgot to mention that my betta is female. I think the Petco lady said that is why she likes to hide...the females hide, but the males may not. anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25742	From: Cory Walter	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas

I have a male betta in my 30 gallon tank and a large dragon that has an airstone in its mouth. The betta gets behind that air stone and stays inside the dragon for days on end......I sometimes have to shake the dragon to get him to come out......the males hide, too....... Cory S. Walter Have a wonderful, blessed day! ----- Original Message ---- From: Anndrea <anndreae@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2008 2:12:52 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bettas OOPS, I forgot to mention that my betta is female. I think the Petco lady said that is why she likes to hide...the females hide, but the males may not. anndrea ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25743	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....

With all those plants and a planned single betta in a 5G tank, you could have probably avoided fishless cycling as the plants would have used up most, if not all of the ammonia put out by the betta. That's what is happening to the ammonia you are adding to the tank now. But it's a great way to learn the nitrogen cycle and see how it works first hand. You're doing GREAT!!!! Plus, if the plants came from a tank with fish in it, the plants likely have nitrifying bacteria colonies growing on them already, which is why you are getting a higher nitrate reading already since a "normal" fishless cycle with no plants would take at least 2-4 weeks before you get the nitrite eating N-bacteria growing which converts the nitrite to nitrate. Your pH swings are normal in a fishless cycle process. The ammonia changes the pH and then as the ammonia is utilized by the plants and N-bacteria, the pH changes back. Fish would not be putting out that much ammonia all at one time so their ammonia does not affect the pH. The reason for bringing the ammonia up to 4-5ppm is that a fully stocked (not overstocked) tank will put out around that same amount of ammonia every 24 hours so if you fishless cycle and build up the N-bacteria to handle 4-5ppm, then you would be ready to fully stock the tank right after. As your tank ecology stabilizes and you get the proper bacteria growing, they will utilize some of the trace elements and you will see your GH level lower. Your KH is on the low side but with only one fish and doing regular 25% PWC's, you will likely be fine with that also. You should establish your tap water baseline so you would know better how the tanks ecology is changing the tap water baseline. Go to my blog and one of my recent blogs was about establishing your tap/source water baseline. Then after you quit adding ammonia, you can test your water and get a better idea of what the parameters are for comparison. Post your results. BTW... I like long initial posts so I don't have to ask a ton of questions! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anita Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 10:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions.... Hi - I am new and previously lurking list member. I'm working on a fishless cycle with my first aquarium and I have some questions about exactly what's going on in there. I'm not panicked, just curious. I apologize for a lengthy first post….but I can either ask the questions now and provide details later – or just give you the details upfront before you ask. So I'm going to give the details ;-) I'm also cross posting this to several lists – so feel free to skip it if you've seen it before! On 1/26 I set up an Eclipse 5 system (corner unit) with the intention of adding a single betta fish. It is live planted with the following: - 1 each of c. balansae and c. wendtii in clay pots with gravel substrate and Fluorite supplements - several anubius nana petite tied to rocks - 1 Java fern that is currently in a pot, but will be tied to driftwood - Floating wisteria The tank bottom is bare aside from some cleaned rocks lying around. I have a whisper pump with an air stone, and a 50 watt stealth heater set to 80 degrees. I have been testing the water with an API Freshwater Master test kit, and API GH/KH test kit. My tap water tested as follows: PH 7.6 Ammonia 0 ppm Nitrates 0 ppm Nitrates 5 ppm GH 9 KH 3 I filled the tank with tap water and added enough ammonia to bring it up to 4 ppm. Then I tested daily, but nothing changed until day 5 when the following showed up: PH 7.6 Ammo 2 Nitrites >.50 but < 1.0 Nitrates 10 I added enough ammonia to take it back to 4 ppm. The next day the Ammo didn't go down, but Nitrites went to 1 and Nitrates went to 20. I didn't do anything to the tank that day. The next day I got: PH 7.6 Ammo 2 (I didn't add ammonia this time) Nitrites 5 ppm Nitrates 40 ppm Then I decided to test after 12 hours and got the following: PH 7.6 Ammo .50 Nitrites 5 Nitrates 40 Added ammonia to get to 4 ppm and tested again 12 hours later when I got: PH 7.6 Ammo 1 Nitrites 1 Nitrates 40 Added ammonia to get to 4 ppm and tested again 12 hours later when I got: PH 7.2 Ammo .25 Nitrites 1 Nitrates 40 GH 15 (up from 9 and I only tested becuase of the change in PH) KH 3 Added ammonia to get to 4 ppm and 12 hours later: PH 6.8 Ammo .50 Nitrites 1 Nitrates 10 GH 18 I'm starting to wonder what the continuing drop in PH means, but I added ammonia to get to 4 ppm and 12 hours later (this morning) I got: PH 6 Ammo .25 Nitrites 1 Nitrates > 5 but < 10 GH 18 When I left this morning I had raised to ammonia back to 4 ppm. I think I understand what's going on with the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates (and I think it looks promising….) but my questions are: 1) Should I be concerned (and/or do anything about) the drop in PH during the cycle? 2) There appears to be some connection between the PH and GH – can somebody explain to me what that connection is? 3) I know the current PH and GH are not good for fish and I could correct both with partial water changes, but should I bother with that right now? 4) Will this level of PH and GH hurt the plants? Again I apologize for the length – but I truly appreciate any explanations or suggestions you can offer! Anita No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1259 - Release Date: 2/4/2008 8:42 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25744	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas

I have kept bettas with other fish males and females. The only things I have noticed is that they will flare to other anabantoids but have kept them with gouramis with just flareing. If keeping a male with a female in a tank put more than one female in the tank. They all like densely planted tanks. They are called fighting fish but usually the males are more aggressive to other males not other fish. I have had females beat up males as well. I have kept and bred domestic betta splendens but have moved more toward species bettas. I have also found that have no problems in tanks with good water flow but since many are found in cups when you buy they they need a little time to get used to the current Joey **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25745	From: bmp	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

If I might add a bit to this discussion, daphinia are useful also because of their shells, which help constipated fish eliminate better. Beverly --- Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > Jenn, If you have water fleas (Daphnia), the > "problem" should soon > take care of itself. Just about any and all fish > relish them as this > is a prime food for fish in the natural habitat when > and where they > coexist. Its cetainly nothing to worry about, as > they are not "fleas" > in the manner we thing of such pests on dogs, and > are really of little > concern. Many advanced hobbyists raise Daphnia > specifically to feed > their fish with, especially since its a good live > food despite the fact > there's a lot of shell matter. Daphnia are often > sold in better LFS's > for this same purpose. Ray Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25746	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

Yes, quite true, although some hobbyists consider them one of the lesser nutritious foods because of these shells. They've always been a great food though for conditioning various fish to breed, which says something for them. Gut loading would probably make them even more so, like is done with Brine Shrimp. Another "use" for them is that they'll keep an otherwise green tank free of suspended algae if allowed to populate enough -- which would never be allowed to happen except in the sparsest of stocked (w/fish) tanks -- or in their own culuture tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > If I might add a bit to this discussion, daphinia are > useful also because of their shells, which help > constipated fish eliminate better. > > Beverly > > --- Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > wrote: > > > Jenn, If you have water fleas (Daphnia), the > > "problem" should soon > > take care of itself. Just about any and all fish > > relish them as this > > is a prime food for fish in the natural habitat when > > and where they > > coexist. Its cetainly nothing to worry about, as > > they are not "fleas" > > in the manner we thing of such pests on dogs, and > > are really of little > > concern. Many advanced hobbyists raise Daphnia > > specifically to feed > > their fish with, especially since its a good live > > food despite the fact > > there's a lot of shell matter. Daphnia are often > > sold in better LFS's > > for this same purpose. Ray > > > Peace, please! > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25747	From: maybelline101	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bettas

Just so you know bettas will hide and usually they can with stand the 3 years in really any size bowl. I had a betta who was in a 1 gallon or so. He was my first betta and lived 6 years. I'm thinking of maybe the same species that they are related to are better compatible tank mates. I think thats why bettas are mostly nice to gouramis, etc. I had a betta with gouramis and i think platys. The betta was nice but would every now and then flare up at the gouramis but would boss the platys around and hide a lot. I've never seen a betta actually try to hurt bottom feeders; catfish, plecos, etc..... Cleo --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joesbirds@... wrote: > > I have kept bettas with other fish males and females. The only things I have > noticed is that they will flare to other anabantoids but have kept them with > gouramis with just flareing. If keeping a male with a female in a tank put > more than one female in the tank. They all like densely planted tanks. They > are called fighting fish but usually the males are more aggressive to other > males not other fish. I have had females beat up males as well. I have kept and > bred domestic betta splendens but have moved more toward species bettas. I > have also found that have no problems in tanks with good water flow but since > many are found in cups when you buy they they need a little time to get used > to the current > Joey > > > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 > 48) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25748	From: Anita	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: >> With all those plants and a planned single betta in a 5G tank, you could have probably avoided fishless cycling as the plants would have used up most, if not all of the ammonia put out by the betta. That's what is happening to the ammonia you are adding to the tank now. But it's a great way to learn the nitrogen cycle and see how it works first hand. You're doing GREAT!!!!>> Thanks! This has been a great learning experience, and it's nice that I don't have to worry about killing any fish in the process. While it doesn't *look* like anything is going in that tank, the test results show that something definately is going on - it's kind of cool to observe :-). >> Plus, if the plants came from a tank with fish in it, the plants likely have nitrifying bacteria colonies growing on them already, which is why you are getting a higher nitrate reading already since a "normal" fishless cycle with no plants would take at least 2-4 weeks before you get the nitrite eating N-bacteria growing which converts the nitrite to nitrate. >> There were fish in the plant tanks at the LFS, lots of little tiny guys swimming around in there...so even that was helpful - who knew? >> Your pH swings are normal in a fishless cycle process. The ammonia changes the pH and then as the ammonia is utilized by the plants and N-bacteria, the pH changes back. Fish would not be putting out that much ammonia all at one time so their ammonia does not affect the pH. The reason for bringing the ammonia up to 4-5ppm is that a fully stocked (not overstocked) tank will put out around that same amount of ammonia every 24 hours so if you fishless cycle and build up the N-bacteria to handle 4-5ppm, then you would be ready to fully stock the tank right after. As your tank ecology stabilizes and you get the proper bacteria growing, they will utilize some of the trace elements and you will see your GH level lower. Your KH is on the low side but with only one fish and doing regular 25% PWC's, you will likely be fine with that also.>> Thank you for that information, it explains a lot. > You should establish your tap water baseline so you would know better how the tanks ecology is changing the tap water baseline. Go to my blog and one of my recent blogs was about establishing your tap/source water baseline.>> I was just reading your blogs yesterday :-) I was planning to set aside a gallon of tap water and add my water conditioners (I have NovAqua and Amquel+, but haven't used them) - and then test the water at 24 and 48 hour intervals to see what (if anything) happens with those chemicals alone. >> BTW... I like long initial posts so I don't have to ask a ton of questions! ;-) >> Beware - I tend to do a lot of long posts ;-) For several years I have wanted to set up a 55 gallon aquarium with 3 fantail goldfish (I'm fascinated with those guys, even if they are messy...). I haven't given up the idea yet. Sometimes I think I might drop back to 30 gallons and 2 fantails...but I keep reading about aquariums and goldfish...in the meantime I will take care of one little betta guy... Anita

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25749	From: Anita	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > >> But it's a great way to learn the nitrogen cycle and see how it works first hand. You're doing GREAT!!!! >> It is definitely a learning experience. It looks like nothing is going on in there, but the tests tell me that a lot is going on....it's kind of fascinating actually. >> Plus, if the plants came from a tank with fish in it, the plants likely have nitrifying bacteria colonies growing on them already, which is why you are getting a higher nitrate reading already since a "normal" fishless cycle with no plants would take at least 2-4 weeks before you get the nitrite eating N-bacteria growing which converts the nitrite to nitrate. >> There were fish in the plant tanks at the LFS, there were lots of little guys were swimming in there. So they ended up helping my little tank too - who knew? >> Your pH swings are normal in a fishless cycle process. The ammonia changes the pH and then as the ammonia is utilized by the plants and N-bacteria, the pH changes back. Fish would not be putting out that much ammonia all at one time so their ammonia does not affect the pH....As your tank ecology stabilizes and you get the proper bacteria growing, they will utilize some of the trace elements and you will see your GH level lower. Your KH is on the low side but with only one fish and doing regular 25% PWC's, you will likely be fine with that also.>> Thanks for explaining the pH changes, it's comforting to know why it's happening and it will correct itself - and most importantly it doesn't seem likely to happen when I get a fish in there. >>Go to my blog and one of my recent blogs was about establishing your tap/source water baseline... I was reading your blogs yesterday :) I'm going to put a gallon of tap water in a container, along with my water conditioners (I have NovAqua and AmQuel+ but haven't used them yet). Then I'll test the water at 24 and 48 hours to see what happens. Thanks for your help Lenny...it's nice to have a resource when I have questions. A few people think I'm a nut case for going to this much trouble for a fish that they think should be in a bowl anyway. It is beginning to seem like I'm creating a 5 gallon aqua garden to which I will be adding a fish at some point. ;-) I have a fantasy about getting a 55 gallon aquarium and stocking it with 3 fantail goldfish, but that won't likely happen soon. For now it will just be one little betta.... Anita

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25750	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....

Anita, Jumping all the way to your closing paragraph about goldfish... You might want to lower your expectations from three to no more than two fancy goldfish in a 55G (4') or only one in a 30G long. Goldfish need lots of water volume to handle their bioload. A single full grown goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish so even the 30G per goldfish will require weekly PWC's and lots of filtration. Check out my goldfish care sheet on my blog if you haven't already seen it since you say you've been browsing around. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anita Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 7:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > >> But it's a great way to learn the nitrogen cycle and see how it works first hand. You're doing GREAT!!!! >> It is definitely a learning experience. It looks like nothing is going on in there, but the tests tell me that a lot is going on....it's kind of fascinating actually. >> Plus, if the plants came from a tank with fish in it, the plants likely have nitrifying bacteria colonies growing on them already, which is why you are getting a higher nitrate reading already since a "normal" fishless cycle with no plants would take at least 2-4 weeks before you get the nitrite eating N-bacteria growing which converts the nitrite to nitrate. >> There were fish in the plant tanks at the LFS, there were lots of little guys were swimming in there. So they ended up helping my little tank too - who knew? >> Your pH swings are normal in a fishless cycle process. The ammonia changes the pH and then as the ammonia is utilized by the plants and N-bacteria, the pH changes back. Fish would not be putting out that much ammonia all at one time so their ammonia does not affect the pH....As your tank ecology stabilizes and you get the proper bacteria growing, they will utilize some of the trace elements and you will see your GH level lower. Your KH is on the low side but with only one fish and doing regular 25% PWC's, you will likely be fine with that also.>> Thanks for explaining the pH changes, it's comforting to know why it's happening and it will correct itself - and most importantly it doesn't seem likely to happen when I get a fish in there. >>Go to my blog and one of my recent blogs was about establishing your tap/source water baseline... I was reading your blogs yesterday :) I'm going to put a gallon of tap water in a container, along with my water conditioners (I have NovAqua and AmQuel+ but haven't used them yet). Then I'll test the water at 24 and 48 hours to see what happens. Thanks for your help Lenny...it's nice to have a resource when I have questions. A few people think I'm a nut case for going to this much trouble for a fish that they think should be in a bowl anyway. It is beginning to seem like I'm creating a 5 gallon aqua garden to which I will be adding a fish at some point. ;-) I have a fantasy about getting a 55 gallon aquarium and stocking it with 3 fantail goldfish, but that won't likely happen soon. For now it will just be one little betta.... Anita No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1259 - Release Date: 2/4/2008 8:42 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25751	From: Jim	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: What's wrong with Oprah?

Oprah, one of my breeding DD Blsck females has swollen up nearly the size of a ping pong ball. She seems a little stressed... staying near the top of the tank. I have removed her to a quarantine tank, but have no idea what is the problem. Suggestions? I have posted a picture in my album (Greymane) called Sick Oprah. Should be up shortly.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25752	From: Jenn	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

Thanks! I knew they weren't "bad" but I didn't know that they were kind of good! There's nothing like a little free food for the fish. jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25753	From: Jenn	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Best algae eater EVER!!!!!!!!!!!

I wanted to let everyone know (if you haven't heard of them already or don't have one) that I got a Panda Garra (Garra flavatra) from my favorite LFS. It was a bit on the expensive side but the fish never stops. There isn't a bit of green on my aquarium glass between him and the bushy nosed pleco (panda does more of the work...). If you can, get one, it's worth it. They are hardy, peaceful and hungry! jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25754	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Oprah?

I'm not sure what a DD is. I'm sure it's going to be obvious when you say but I'm drawing a blank off the top of my head. Typically, a bloated fish of that degree is related to an internal bacterial infection... the same type of bacteria that causes pop eye in fish. If the DD is some type of malawi cichlid, then there is also malawi bloat which I believe is another name for dropsy but I haven't been reading up on malawi bloat in a while. If the entire fish has a pine cone effect where the scales are sticking out, that would be dropsy, if it's only bloated in the abdominal area without the scales sticking out or maybe only sticking out a little in the swollen area, then it's more likely an internal bacterial infection. Dropsy is much more difficult to treat. Of course, with a fish named Oprah, maybe she just went off her diet and binged out. ;-) You should quarantine the fish so you can treat it accordingly and observe any poop discharged by the fish and let us know what it looks like. Here's a couple of goldfish poop diagnosis pages but I believe these descriptions are the same for most other fish. http://www.goldfishutopia.com/information.php?pID=20&sid=6b3f678261d6b08be56 44faad6298b87 or http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html I've successfully treated a Blue Gourami, suffering from bloat and pop-eye, with the Melafix/Pimafix cocktail but if the fish is eating, then an antibacterial food would probably be better. On a side note, it's probably better that you use your own photo hosting site, especially when you need to show us pictures quickly since the Group's photo album had to be put on moderation to prevent improper photos from being uploaded by spammers so it takes a little while for one of the mods to approve your upload(s). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What's wrong with Oprah? Oprah, one of my breeding DD Blsck females has swollen up nearly the size of a ping pong ball. She seems a little stressed... staying near the top of the tank. I have removed her to a quarantine tank, but have no idea what is the problem. Suggestions? I have posted a picture in my album (Greymane) called Sick Oprah. Should be up shortly. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1259 - Release Date: 2/4/2008 8:42 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25755	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Best algae eater EVER!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id= 462 (You have to register and login to see their articles but Practical Fishkeeping Magazine online is a very good publication for FREE!) has a very good article/profile on the Panda Garra. I've copy/pasted the bulk of the article for easy reference here since many may not be members already. They shoal and should be kept in groups so hopefully you can fill out the shoal if your tank can support the bioload. Let your fish store know that they should be sold in groups. BEGINNING OF ARTICLE (MINUS PICTURES)------ Common name: Panda garra Scientific name: Garra flavatra Kullander and Fang 2004 Origin: Found on the western side of the Rakhine Yoma mountains in southern Myanmar (formerly Burma), Asia. The first recorded fish were caught in 1998 from Kananmae Chaung. Size: The largest type specimens were around 6cm/2.5" long, but imported fish have been an inch or so bigger than this and quite chunky. Diet: Like other Garra species, flavatra is clearly a grazer and feeds on algae and invertebrates that live within it. My Garra (of other species) graze actively on algae all day, but also accept dried foods, such as algae wafers. Water: Not known, but probably neutral, highly-oxygenated and cooler than normal as these are found at the foothills of mountains. Aquarium: Best kept in a group in a tank containing fast-flowing water and lots of smooth, water-worn cobbles. They're usually very peaceful, but you may see some territoriality. Most Garra mix well with other fish from similar habitats. My first choice for tankmates in a biotope style aquarium would be Devario and Barilius. Notes: This fish was one of seven species of Garra to be described by Kullander and Fang in a single paper written in 2004. Two of the fish, spilota and poecilura, came from the eastern slope of the Rakhine Yoma in the Irrawaddy drainage, while the other five (propulvinus, nigricollaris, vittatula, flavatra and rakhinica) were found on the western side of the Rakhine Yoma. I covered the original description on the website and mentioned at the time that flavatra had commercial potential. Identification: Unlikely to be confused with other Garra as the colouration is unique. G. vittatula has a distinct lateral band, while spilota is also unique among Garra for the presence of its row of dark blotches along the flanks. According to the description flavatra should also possess the following characters: dorsal with 10 branched rays and no spines; anal with seven branched rays and no spines; 27-29 lateral scales; 16 rows of circumpeduncular scales and two pairs of barbels. Kullander and Fang also describe the tubercles and rostral area in detail, as this is often used to tell different Garra species apart. Availability: The first imports of this species came in 2005 via BAS in Bolton. In the past few months several shops around the UK have imported these fish from Myanmar, or purchased them from UK-based wholesalers. These ones were on sale at the excellent Wildwoods in Middlesex. Price: I think these are gorgeous fish with big aquarium potential. One of my personal favourite fish at the moment. END OF ARTICLE ---------------- Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Best algae eater EVER!!!!!!!!!!! I wanted to let everyone know (if you haven't heard of them already or don't have one) that I got a Panda Garra (Garra flavatra) from my favorite LFS. It was a bit on the expensive side but the fish never stops. There isn't a bit of green on my aquarium glass between him and the bushy nosed pleco (panda does more of the work...). If you can, get one, it's worth it. They are hardy, peaceful and hungry! jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1259 - Release Date: 2/4/2008 8:42 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25756	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Oprah?

Lenny, I concur with your diagnosis that this fish may very possibly have an internal bacterial infection (quite possibly a Pseudomonas), or an intestinal blockage, just from the description. Having just now got back up on line, I have not yet seen Jim's photo(s) which he has said he said should be up shortly; that's the next place to visit. As he had also posted pics of his breeding Angels only this afternoon, I'd venture a guess that he's referring to a Double Dark Black female Angelfish. We'll have to look into this further, but these coming photos may reveal more. Its possible that he may need to feed the fish peas or give the fish an Epsom salts bath to alleviate such a possible intestinal problem, but perhaps the photos may help to pinpoint the problem further. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm not sure what a DD is. I'm sure it's going to be obvious when you say > but I'm drawing a blank off the top of my head. > > Typically, a bloated fish of that degree is related to an internal bacterial > infection... the same type of bacteria that causes pop eye in fish. If the > DD is some type of malawi cichlid, then there is also malawi bloat which I > believe is another name for dropsy but I haven't been reading up on malawi > bloat in a while. If the entire fish has a pine cone effect where the > scales are sticking out, that would be dropsy, if it's only bloated in the > abdominal area without the scales sticking out or maybe only sticking out a > little in the swollen area, then it's more likely an internal bacterial > infection. Dropsy is much more difficult to treat. > > Of course, with a fish named Oprah, maybe she just went off her diet and > binged out. ;-) > > You should quarantine the fish so you can treat it accordingly and observe > any poop discharged by the fish and let us know what it looks like. Here's > a couple of goldfish poop diagnosis pages but I believe these descriptions > are the same for most other fish. > http://www.goldfishutopia.com/information.php? pID=20&sid=6b3f678261d6b08be56 > 44faad6298b87 or http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html > > I've successfully treated a Blue Gourami, suffering from bloat and pop-eye, > with the Melafix/Pimafix cocktail but if the fish is eating, then an > antibacterial food would probably be better. > > On a side note, it's probably better that you use your own photo hosting > site, especially when you need to show us pictures quickly since the Group's > photo album had to be put on moderation to prevent improper photos from > being uploaded by spammers so it takes a little while for one of the mods to > approve your upload(s). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jim > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] What's wrong with Oprah? > > Oprah, one of my breeding DD Blsck females has swollen up nearly the size of > a ping pong ball. She seems a little stressed... staying near the top of the > tank. I have removed her to a quarantine tank, but have no idea what is the > problem. Suggestions? > > I have posted a picture in my album (Greymane) called Sick Oprah. > Should be up shortly. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1259 - Release Date: 2/4/2008 > 8:42 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25757	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....

Anita, Lenny has said it pretty well. You are seeing a compressed biological cycle in action. At times there does seem to be a correlation with GH and pH, but it does not hold true under all conditions. I'd not worry about the pH as this time. As a tank cycles, the biological activity in the tank will decrease the pH. Regular water changes will moderate this change, and you will settle in at a pH that is probably lower than your tap water, but will hold pretty steady. There are fish that would just love to live in the water you have. Where did you get the idea that the levels of pH and GH you are currently seeing are not suitable for fish? There are fish that would even enjoy a lower pH and GH than you have now. This probably will not hurt your plants at all. For one thing, they are probably living more on stores of food than taking what is available in your new tank, and secondly, GH does not measure some nutrients that re needed by your plants for good growth. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anita Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 11:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions.... Hi - I am new and previously lurking list member. I'm working on a fishless cycle with my first aquarium and I have some questions about exactly what's going on in there. I'm not panicked, just curious. I apologize for a lengthy first post....but I can either ask the questions now and provide details later - or just give you the details upfront before you ask. So I'm going to give the details ;-) I'm also cross posting this to several lists - so feel free to skip it if you've seen it before! On 1/26 I set up an Eclipse 5 system (corner unit) with the intention of adding a single betta fish. It is live planted with the following: - 1 each of c. balansae and c. wendtii in clay pots with gravel substrate and Fluorite supplements - several anubius nana petite tied to rocks - 1 Java fern that is currently in a pot, but will be tied to driftwood - Floating wisteria The tank bottom is bare aside from some cleaned rocks lying around. I have a whisper pump with an air stone, and a 50 watt stealth heater set to 80 degrees. I have been testing the water with an API Freshwater Master test kit, and API GH/KH test kit. My tap water tested as follows: PH 7.6 Ammonia 0 ppm Nitrates 0 ppm Nitrates 5 ppm GH 9 KH 3 I filled the tank with tap water and added enough ammonia to bring it up to 4 ppm. Then I tested daily, but nothing changed until day 5 when the following showed up: PH 7.6 Ammo 2 Nitrites >.50 but < 1.0 Nitrates 10 I added enough ammonia to take it back to 4 ppm. The next day the Ammo didn't go down, but Nitrites went to 1 and Nitrates went to 20. I didn't do anything to the tank that day. The next day I got: PH 7.6 Ammo 2 (I didn't add ammonia this time) Nitrites 5 ppm Nitrates 40 ppm Then I decided to test after 12 hours and got the following: PH 7.6 Ammo .50 Nitrites 5 Nitrates 40 Added ammonia to get to 4 ppm and tested again 12 hours later when I got: PH 7.6 Ammo 1 Nitrites 1 Nitrates 40 Added ammonia to get to 4 ppm and tested again 12 hours later when I got: PH 7.2 Ammo .25 Nitrites 1 Nitrates 40 GH 15 (up from 9 and I only tested becuase of the change in PH) KH 3 Added ammonia to get to 4 ppm and 12 hours later: PH 6.8 Ammo .50 Nitrites 1 Nitrates 10 GH 18 I'm starting to wonder what the continuing drop in PH means, but I added ammonia to get to 4 ppm and 12 hours later (this morning) I got: PH 6 Ammo .25 Nitrites 1 Nitrates > 5 but < 10 GH 18 When I left this morning I had raised to ammonia back to 4 ppm. I think I understand what's going on with the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates (and I think it looks promising....) but my questions are: 1) Should I be concerned (and/or do anything about) the drop in PH during the cycle? 2) There appears to be some connection between the PH and GH - can somebody explain to me what that connection is? 3) I know the current PH and GH are not good for fish and I could correct both with partial water changes, but should I bother with that right now? 4) Will this level of PH and GH hurt the plants? Again I apologize for the length - but I truly appreciate any explanations or suggestions you can offer! Anita Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25758	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Lenny, Thanks so much for the info on fish lifespans, I had no idea. Does it make you so sad that most people have no idea about fish keeping? I had no idea that goldfish had a long lifespan. I always thought fish in general had pretty short lifespans. I had no idea that fish could grow to be quite large. I thought the only reason to have a big tank was so that you could have lots of fish. I had no idea that there were different watter requirements for different fish. Like I said, I would have been like my dad, putting whatever fish looked nicest together in a tank, and chalking their deaths up to the fact that they must have just been old or sick or whatever. I knew that some fish were more aggressive than others, but I had no idea about grouping them together according to their dispositions towards eachother. I think it's really sad that most common fish stores (PetSmart, PetCo, Wal Mart, etc.) give ABSOLUTELY NO information about fish or fish keeping when customers make a purchase - they just let the customer buy whatever they want, how many they want, etc. And for the most part, if the customer DOES ask questions, the employees aren't informed enough to give correct and thorough answers. Even my favorite LFS that has a lot more intelegent staff, a lot better stock of fish, etc. doesn't always seem to know the answers to my questions. Anyway, thank goodness for the internet and the opportunity to do research from home, and the resourse of other people who have experience. If it weren't for this many of us would not be able to get accurate info. Thanks for being here. -Cheryl :D

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25759	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/5/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice

Cheryl said: "...Does it make you so sad that most people have no idea about fish keeping?..." Cheryl, While I regularly lash out at pet store management and/or employees for giving bad advice, I don't expect them to give advice to people on how to raise their pets. In fact, it would be better if they didn't give advice. Just like I don't expect a car company or salesman to teach you how to drive a car or a computer seller to teach you how to use Windows or all of the software on the new computer. It's up to the individual to know these things beforehand or put forth the effort to learn ASAP. Of course, these stores selling "live" pets should be ready and willing to direct the people to books or internet resources (they could just tell their customers to "Google GoldLenny".. lol) if they do not have reputable and accurate care sheets to give to people. It is sad when these major stores have care sheets that give out bad information (like the Pets-not-so-smart gave me when I first started out). It might be a good community service or for-profit idea for these stores to hold regular in-store seminars but most people would not attend them... but at least the stores would not be to blame. Just like everything else in life, it boils down to personal and individual responsibility... not blaming it on someone else or expecting others to bail you out... not you personally.. just people in general. Another thing that is so sad are the numbers of websites and books that still give out horrible advice so even if someone was to study one of these "bad" sources, they would still be so ill-informed. While there are volumes of good information on the net, there are also volumes of bad information which looks like it is well written and appears to be good. I recently purchased a Goldfish book at a garage sale, mainly to get it out of circulation since it had some HORRIBLE advice in it. The authors and publishers of these books should be held liable and have to issue a recall on their books, much like a manufacturer of a defective product has to issue a recall for public safety. I never hear about PeTA picketing a book publisher even though that book will be responsible for many, many suffering or dead pets. Forums like this are still the best resource for people needing quick advice and for finding reputable websites and books for long term education. These are some of the things I tried to address in my fish blog, http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com, where I have compiled most of my favorite links to reputable sites and resources. And then for some of the common questions that I've read and/or answered over and over in forums, I published specific blogs so I can just direct someone to my blog rather than re-type the same thing over and over. I need to do some research on how to recreate my entire "Aquarium" favorites folder into an interactive page on my blog that would be easily updated and synchronized when I changed my favorites folder on my computer. I already have my "Aquarium" folder organized into 30 sub-folders and each of those folders have multiple sub-sub-folders containing the actual webpage links so it's easy for me to find a resource for just about anything being discussed. Then I also do a quick Google to check for new reliable resources or updates on a regular basis. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of my_cycling Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 10:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a new cichlid tank - need advice Lenny, Thanks so much for the info on fish lifespans, I had no idea. Does it make you so sad that most people have no idea about fish keeping? I had no idea that goldfish had a long lifespan. I always thought fish in general had pretty short lifespans. I had no idea that fish could grow to be quite large. I thought the only reason to have a big tank was so that you could have lots of fish. I had no idea that there were different watter requirements for different fish. Like I said, I would have been like my dad, putting whatever fish looked nicest together in a tank, and chalking their deaths up to the fact that they must have just been old or sick or whatever. I knew that some fish were more aggressive than others, but I had no idea about grouping them together according to their dispositions towards eachother. I think it's really sad that most common fish stores (PetSmart, PetCo, Wal Mart, etc.) give ABSOLUTELY NO information about fish or fish keeping when customers make a purchase - they just let the customer buy whatever they want, how many they want, etc. And for the most part, if the customer DOES ask questions, the employees aren't informed enough to give correct and thorough answers. Even my favorite LFS that has a lot more intelegent staff, a lot better stock of fish, etc. doesn't always seem to know the answers to my questions. Anyway, thank goodness for the internet and the opportunity to do research from home, and the resourse of other people who have experience. If it weren't for this many of us would not be able to get accurate info. Thanks for being here. -Cheryl :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1261 - Release Date: 2/5/2008 8:57 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25760	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Breeding for Blood Parrots

Jenn, Following up on this recent post; for your interest, I just now discovered there's a copy of the 141 Page book, "Rainbowfishes of Australia and Papua New Guinea" by Dr. Gerald R. Allen & Norbert J. Cross up on AquaBid presently, starting at $40.00 (well worth it, its an excellent book) from an extremely reliable aquatic book dealer in Rhode Island. This Auction ends today at 12:30 PM Central Standard Time (1:30 PM Eastern Standard Time). Lots of luck if you're bidding. Let us know how you make out if you go for it. Regards, Ray. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Jenn, Some excellent Rainbowfish books I'd recommend for your > consideration are these following publications which, although out of > print, may be found on eBay from time to time and are well worth > looking for; I have these in my library: > > (1) "Rainbowfishes in Nature and in the Aquarium" by Dr. Gerald R'. > Allen (1995 Tetra Press). Exceedingly good reference book. > > (2) "Rainbowfishes of Australia and Papua New Guinea" by Dr. Gerald > R. Allen & Norbert J. Cross (1982 T.F.H. Publications) HIGHLY > recommended; Dr. Allen is THE world reknown expert on Rainbowfish. > > (3) "Australian Native Fishes" by Ray Leggett and John R. Merrick > (1987 J.R. Merrick Publications) Covers a wide variety of Australian > fishes, including many Rainbowfish; the authors are well-recognized > authorities on Australian aquatic fauna. > > (4) "Rainbowfishes - Keeping & Breeding Them in Captivity" by Derek > Lambert ( 1998 T.F.H. Publications) Excellent 64 page softcover book > with much information and photos. > > (5) "Rainbowfishes I D - Care and Breeding" by G.R. Allen (1996). > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@> > wrote: > > > > I am currently keeping rainbow fish but have had various South > > American cichlids in the past and I find myself missing them. > > > > Now, if anyone has any websites or books they would recommend for > > rainbows (that I will not even attempt to breed, they seem like a > very > > tedious fish to breed.)or even any that are available in the fish > > trade that you think I should check out, I would appreciate that. > > > > Thanks everyone. > > > > jenn > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25761	From: mitra19822003	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Oprah?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <huron62@...> wrote: > > Oprah, one of my breeding DD Blsck females has swollen up nearly the > size of a ping pong ball. She seems a little stressed... staying near > the top of the tank. I have removed her to a quarantine tank, but have > no idea what is the problem. Suggestions? > > I have posted a picture in my album (Greymane) called Sick Oprah. > Should be up shortly. > hi Iam studid marine biology.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25762	From: Anita	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: >> There are fish that would just love to live in the water you have. Where did you get the idea that the levels of pH and GH you are currently seeing are not suitable for fish? There are fish that would even enjoy a lower pH and GH than you have now.>> Hi Steve - I had read that bettas prefer a more neutral pH, and the API chart shows that my current GH levels are better for marine fish. So for my purposes I wasn't sure if the conditions were ideal, but I wasn't specific about that was I? ;-) I'm glad my plants may be okay because some of them have new growth. And aside from that fact that I'd prefer not to kill anything out of ignorance, I do not want dead plant material mucking up my tank either. :) Anita

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25763	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Oprah?

Jim, In studying the pic of your female Black Angel (Oprah), the preliminary diagnosis of yesterday seemed to be confirmed as a least one of the possible causes for her condition. As there are no scales to be seen standing out from the body, nor is the major portion (upper muscular included) of the body swelled it would not seems to be Dropsey in any sort. I see three possible causes, some of which if you've been observant may be either confirmed or denied, and I'm sure you watch your breeders closely -- especially ill ones like this. One possibility is that its egg bound, but then only you would know better as knowing this fish's most recent breeding schedule. The second possibility, and this may be real, is that there's an intestinal blockage, but again an astute aquarist such as you might be might know if this fish is passing feces. In the event you haven't noticed, I'd advise feeding this fish shelled green peas (slightly blanched) and providing a bath of Epsom salts (1 Tbs per 5 gallons to be reated with 1/2 dose after 3 days), especially if you've observed and have seen no waste. The third possibility, and one that appears most probable (without actually hasving a slide culture to examine), is that this fish has an anaerobic intestinal pathogen in these cases usually involving Pseudomonas punctata (once thought to be the cause of Dropsey, and still suspect), Aeromonas hydrophila and possibly Enterococcus sp., not that this matters much except to say that the first two are gram- negative Bacillus while the third pathogen (if present) is gram- positive. For this reason, I'd suggest treating with an absorpable broad-spectrum antibiotic such as either Neomycin sulfate or Kanamycin sulfate; Kanamycin is great stuff especially against gram-negative bacteria, as well as some gram-positive bacteria and is readily absorbed through the fish tissue (skin, gills, etc.) Normally, a fish's immune system will keep such infections at bay, as the bactericidin in their blod is toxic to microorganisms. The reticuloendothelial cells of the spleen, liver and blood vessels also tend to counteract such invasions. Unfortunatelly when overwhelmed for whastever reason, these particular pathogens of the intestinal tract give off gases and acids, which are symptomatic as to what's going on here by appearances restricted to the lower abdominal area. If the fish is still eating, I'd also advise feeding it only with medicated (anti-biotic) food, or make up your own soaking foods in these bacticides. Some salt is always beneficial as it increases the electrolytes that otherwise might be lost with stressed fish, and a moderate rise in temperature. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <huron62@...> wrote: > > Oprah, one of my breeding DD Blsck females has swollen up nearly the > size of a ping pong ball. She seems a little stressed... staying near > the top of the tank. I have removed her to a quarantine tank, but have > no idea what is the problem. Suggestions? > > I have posted a picture in my album (Greymane) called Sick Oprah. > Should be up shortly. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25764	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Oprah?

Why is it that typo's never appear before you post a message, but are always found after the message is up (LOL)??? Spell checking often gets in the way too, or let's unintentional stuff get by since it doesn't read context. Anyhow, to clarify, the first sentence should read as: . . . confirmed as AT least one . . . Scrolling down, the Epsom salts treatment should have read -- 1 Tsp of Epsom salts to be RE-TREATED with 1/2 dose . . . I'm sure "hasving" in the explanation of the third possibility is understood to be HAVING. Ciao, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Jim, In studying the pic of your female Black Angel (Oprah), the > preliminary diagnosis of yesterday seemed to be confirmed as a least > one of the possible causes for her condition. As there are no scales > to be seen standing out from the body, nor is the major portion (upper > muscular included) of the body swelled it would not seems to be Dropsey > in any sort. > > I see three possible causes, some of which if you've been observant may > be either confirmed or denied, and I'm sure you watch your breeders > closely -- especially ill ones like this. One possibility is that its > egg bound, but then only you would know better as knowing this fish's > most recent breeding schedule. The second possibility, and this may be > real, is that there's an intestinal blockage, but again an astute > aquarist such as you might be might know if this fish is passing > feces. In the event you haven't noticed, I'd advise feeding this fish > shelled green peas (slightly blanched) and providing a bath of Epsom > salts (1 Tbs per 5 gallons to be reated with 1/2 dose after 3 days), > especially if you've observed and have seen no waste. > > The third possibility, and one that appears most probable (without > actually hasving a slide culture to examine), is that this fish has an > anaerobic intestinal pathogen in these cases usually involving > Pseudomonas punctata (once thought to be the cause of Dropsey, and > still suspect), Aeromonas hydrophila and possibly Enterococcus sp., not > that this matters much except to say that the first two are gram- > negative Bacillus while the third pathogen (if present) is gram- > positive. For this reason, I'd suggest treating with an absorpable > broad-spectrum antibiotic such as either Neomycin sulfate or Kanamycin > sulfate; Kanamycin is great stuff especially against gram-negative > bacteria, as well as some gram-positive bacteria and is readily > absorbed through the fish tissue (skin, gills, etc.) > > Normally, a fish's immune system will keep such infections at bay, as > the bactericidin in their blod is toxic to microorganisms. The > reticuloendothelial cells of the spleen, liver and blood vessels also > tend to counteract such invasions. Unfortunatelly when overwhelmed for > whastever reason, these particular pathogens of the intestinal tract > give off gases and acids, which are symptomatic as to what's going on > here by appearances restricted to the lower abdominal area. If the > fish is still eating, I'd also advise feeding it only with medicated > (anti-biotic) food, or make up your own soaking foods in these > bacticides. Some salt is always beneficial as it increases the > electrolytes that otherwise might be lost with stressed fish, and a > moderate rise in temperature. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <huron62@> wrote: > > > > Oprah, one of my breeding DD Blsck females has swollen up nearly the > > size of a ping pong ball. She seems a little stressed... staying near > > the top of the tank. I have removed her to a quarantine tank, but > have > > no idea what is the problem. Suggestions? > > > > I have posted a picture in my album (Greymane) called Sick Oprah. > > Should be up shortly. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25765	From: Paula Brown	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Pleco Question

All the reading on this list and another lately has got me wondering something: I have a 55 gallon community (danios, tetras, endlers) tank, heavily planted. Hasn't been broke down for about six years (and that was just to move it for painting replacing the same water right away). I think it was around that time (if not before) that I purchased my (assuming) Common Pleco (he is the only bottom feeder in the tank). He basically lives in a piece of blue coral (large) and comes out at night to feed. Fed fresh veggies, algae wafers, shrimp pellets and flake food. From head to tail he is only about six inches. That just seems like a very small amount of growth for his age. He was raised in this 55 gallon - has been in there since a baby when I purchased him. Appears very healthy. Is he small for his age or is it my imagination? He is definitely not a bushy or bristley (sp?). Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25766	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

Um, yeah, you can send them to me. :) Kate Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: Jenn, If you have water fleas (Daphnia), the "problem" should soon take care of itself. Just about any and all fish relish them as this is a prime food for fish in the natural habitat when and where they coexist. Its cetainly nothing to worry about, as they are not "fleas" in the manner we thing of such pests on dogs, and are really of little concern. Many advanced hobbyists raise Daphnia specifically to feed their fish with, especially since its a good live food despite the fact there's a lot of shell matter. Daphnia are often sold in better LFS's for this same purpose. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: > > I noticed that I have water fleas. From what I have read, they really > aren't a threat to my tank but is there a way to get rid of them? > > > > Jenn > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25767	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible day

I adore Shelties. I used to have two. They are so smart! Kate Gregg <greggb57@...> wrote: I'm terribly sorry to hear of your loss, Ed. As a fellow dog lover, owner and rescuer, I know how deeply that can affect you. My pack of Shelties sends their condolences and reminds you that your dog will be waiting for you at the Rainbow Bridge. -- Gregg Bender www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25768	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Pleco Question

Paula, There are hundreds of fish that are called plecos as a general classification. They can range in size for somewhat diminutive to absolutely large. Many plecos have not been definitively described and go by a classification of "L" numbers, i.e. L486 rather than a scientific or common name. Many plecos closely resemble other plecos, often making a certain diagnosis of name difficult when just eyeballed. Unfortunately, many of the plecos found in the shops are larger species that can, and will, outgrow the tanks they will be placed in. This is why you often hear or see the warnings that any given pleco will outgrow the tank they are in. In your particular case, you may have been lucky to get one of the smaller plecos. So long as you are doing regular water changes, and the fish is eating, he will outgrow the tank if it is necessary to reach his natural size. (An old wife's tale states that a fish will stunt itself to fit in a given container. This may happen in certain situations, but it is certainly not a rule.) I do congratulate you on your husbandry skills in maintaining a tank for so long without making any major changes for whatever reason. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pleco Question All the reading on this list and another lately has got me wondering something: I have a 55 gallon community (danios, tetras, endlers) tank, heavily planted. Hasn't been broke down for about six years (and that was just to move it for painting replacing the same water right away). I think it was around that time (if not before) that I purchased my (assuming) Common Pleco (he is the only bottom feeder in the tank). He basically lives in a piece of blue coral (large) and comes out at night to feed. Fed fresh veggies, algae wafers, shrimp pellets and flake food. From head to tail he is only about six inches. That just seems like a very small amount of growth for his age. He was raised in this 55 gallon - has been in there since a baby when I purchased him. Appears very healthy. Is he small for his age or is it my imagination? He is definitely not a bushy or bristley (sp?). Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25769	From: Anita	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > >>> You might want to lower your expectations from three to no more than two fancy goldfish in a 55G (4') or only one in a 30G long. Goldfish need lots of water volume to handle their bioload. >> Thanks for the reality check Lenny :) I bookmarked your blog under my Goldfish folder. I understand that goldfish are sociable fish and I wanted more than one just in case I can't provide enough interaction every day. Okay new revised fantasy: a 55 gallon tank with 2 fantail goldfish and some plants that I don't mind replacing frequently, a couple of filters, etc. I'll start re-thinking the plan. I want to avoid only having one goldfish.... Anita

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25770	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: cichlid identification

Sounds like a convict to me. They are also called "zebras" because of the stripes. I have five males; if you don't want a bunch of baby convicts, I recommend you don't add a female. Your "small" cichlid will get big. My five are in a 40 gallon and they should be in a 55 or 60 gal. Another way to identify a male: as they get older, they get a bump on the front of the head. They can be very aggressive and territorial. Do not, repeat, do not put any other species in with convict cichlids. As for the color changes: I've noticed that mine get paler depending on the hierarchy; the "alpha" male will be very dark and take over the fake hollow tree stump; another will be lighter, and the others very pale. Every now and then they do this challenge thing where they approach one another and move forward and back, as if they're going to fight. (And I've noticed that some of them have nipped fins.) They also "nest"; they actually pick up small pebbles in their mouths and move them around to make a nest in anticipation of mating and taking care of fry. Convict males are excellent parents and will aggressively guard their offspring. I don't want to have to worry about what to do with the fry, so my males are just going to have to make do without females. I've also noticed that when they are in the mating mood, they spook easily as I approach, don't eat much, and attack my hand if I attempt to rearrange the tank when making water changes. (They're protecting their nests.) Good luck; I think you'll enjoy your convict, and you may want to get another (same sex). Please do surf the web and learn more about them. Shirley --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "in_my_mind19" <in_my_mind19@...> wrote: > > They just said that he is a 'small cichlid' no identification at > all > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > wrote: > > > > What did the local pet store say he was? > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of in_my_mind19 > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:07 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] cichlid identification > > > > > > > > I recently bought a small cichlid from my local pet store. I have > > been unable to identify what kind he is, more than likely due to > my > > newness to fish. But he is at 2 inches long, with a light grey > body > > and darker grey verticle lines on him. Also, I have notice he > changes > > colors from almost a liquid white color in the light and then the > > normal grey with dark grey strips. Anyone know what kind of > cichlid > > he is? > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25771	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Terrible day

There are two here also, that Gregg knows. And a foster he probably doesn't. Of course, as he knows, shelties don't hold a candle to border collies, of which there is one here also. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Terrible day I adore Shelties. I used to have two. They are so smart! Kate Gregg <greggb57@...> wrote: I'm terribly sorry to hear of your loss, Ed. As a fellow dog lover, owner and rescuer, I know how deeply that can affect you. My pack of Shelties sends their condolences and reminds you that your dog will be waiting for you at the Rainbow Bridge. -- Gregg Bender www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25772	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....

That's a good start. And after a year or two, if your guys/gals have some good genetics, you can keep up with PWC's and feedings and they get really, really BIG, you won't mind getting an even larger tank.... or pond. lol The new record size for a fancy goldfish is Bruce the Oranda, who is around 18" long now. Here's a picture of him back in 2002 when he was only 15" long. http://www.goldfishconnection.com/articles/details.php?articleId=46&parentId =2 Of course, most fancy goldfish only grow to 6" to 8" long but that is still a lot of body mass of fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anita Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 7:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > >>> You might want to lower your expectations from three to no more than two fancy goldfish in a 55G (4') or only one in a 30G long. Goldfish need lots of water volume to handle their bioload. >> Thanks for the reality check Lenny :) I bookmarked your blog under my Goldfish folder. I understand that goldfish are sociable fish and I wanted more than one just in case I can't provide enough interaction every day. Okay new revised fantasy: a 55 gallon tank with 2 fantail goldfish and some plants that I don't mind replacing frequently, a couple of filters, etc. I'll start re-thinking the plan. I want to avoid only having one goldfish.... Anita No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1261 - Release Date: 2/5/2008 8:57 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25773	From: Kelly	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: New and in trouble already!

About a month ago, I decided to set up my 1 1/2 gallon tank, I had a Placo, a male fan tailed guppy, and 13 feeder guppies in it. All was fine. Then I decided to set up my 10 gallon last week. I knew nothing of cycling the tank, so I put the water in with the dechlorinator and PH Stabalizer and put in my fan tailed guppy, my 11 feeder guppies that were still alive from the other tank and I bought 3 goldfish, 1 neon, a catfish and a fiddler crab. The pet store told me that the fiddler crab was fresh water and that my feeder guppies were all safe from the fish I had with them. Well....silly me...I believed the "experts". The next day my neon was dead and this is when I learned about cycling the tank...so I got the chemicals for that. Then the next day most of my feeder guppies and my fan tailed guppy were gone, by the next day all the feeder guppies were gone...I am guessing the goldfish ate them? The good news was that I still had my Pleco in the small tank and one of my guppies had laid eggs before the transfer, so I now have a bunch of baby feeder guppies. Then last night I was doing some research and learned that fiddler crabs need not only salt water to live, but dry sand and fresh water to drink! Ok, so I don't want "Kermit the Crab" to die, so I am setting up my 20 gallon tank for him. I am going tomorrow to get the sand and salt stuff. I have the water in the tank right now doing whatever it is supposed to be doing. Are there any fish that I can put in with him in that tank? Yesterday, I also bought a 55 gallon tank and got that all set up, except it doesn't have a filter. Someone told me that I will need 2 filters for 30-60 gallon tanks, is this true? He also told me that I don't have to cycle it...he said he has never heard of such a crazy thing...do I have to cycle it? I put the stuff in to speed it up...how long will it take? He also said that goldfish are extremely dirty and that I can't house them with other fish cause they will give them diseases and kill them...is this true? Sorry for the long post, but I appreciate all the help I can get.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25774	From: Cory Walter	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: New and in trouble already!

Kelly....not sure about the cycling. I never cycled any of my tanks but I know it is a standard practice. About the goldfish......they are "messy" fish and should not be mixed with freshwater tropicals. The tropicals require a warmer water temperature than the goldfish does....goldfish like it kinda cool. Good luck with your little crab..... Cory S. Walter Have a wonderful, blessed day! ----- Original Message ---- From: Kelly <mrskjtracy@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2008 9:18:32 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New and in trouble already! About a month ago, I decided to set up my 1 1/2 gallon tank, I had a Placo, a male fan tailed guppy, and 13 feeder guppies in it. All was fine. Then I decided to set up my 10 gallon last week. I knew nothing of cycling the tank, so I put the water in with the dechlorinator and PH Stabalizer and put in my fan tailed guppy, my 11 feeder guppies that were still alive from the other tank and I bought 3 goldfish, 1 neon, a catfish and a fiddler crab. The pet store told me that the fiddler crab was fresh water and that my feeder guppies were all safe from the fish I had with them. Well....silly me...I believed the "experts". The next day my neon was dead and this is when I learned about cycling the tank...so I got the chemicals for that. Then the next day most of my feeder guppies and my fan tailed guppy were gone, by the next day all the feeder guppies were gone...I am guessing the goldfish ate them? The good news was that I still had my Pleco in the small tank and one of my guppies had laid eggs before the transfer, so I now have a bunch of baby feeder guppies. Then last night I was doing some research and learned that fiddler crabs need not only salt water to live, but dry sand and fresh water to drink! Ok, so I don't want "Kermit the Crab" to die, so I am setting up my 20 gallon tank for him. I am going tomorrow to get the sand and salt stuff. I have the water in the tank right now doing whatever it is supposed to be doing. Are there any fish that I can put in with him in that tank? Yesterday, I also bought a 55 gallon tank and got that all set up, except it doesn't have a filter. Someone told me that I will need 2 filters for 30-60 gallon tanks, is this true? He also told me that I don't have to cycle it...he said he has never heard of such a crazy thing...do I have to cycle it? I put the stuff in to speed it up...how long will it take? He also said that goldfish are extremely dirty and that I can't house them with other fish cause they will give them diseases and kill them...is this true? Sorry for the long post, but I appreciate all the help I can get. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25775	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: New and in trouble already!

The fiddler crab is not a full saltwater animal, but is brackish water. The guppies can live happily with the crab as they enjoy high salinity, and the crabs are not aggressive. Give your crab sand that is about 6" deep as they like to burrow. Yes you do need fresh water, just as a hermit crab needs salt water, not a ton of it, but a small dish with clean fresh water daily. And guppies are live bearers, they will breed better for you keeping them in a higher salinity. I set these guys up for my niece for x-mas, she loves them. Neons are schoolers, they really need to be kept in groups. If you decide to get these guys again, consider buying like 8-10 of them. Your goldfish is dirtier than the other fish, and although I do not agree with keeping them with other fish it is possible. But to keep both types of fish (tropicals and goldfish) happy, I woud seperate them. Your goldfish get HUGE and prefer to be kept at cooler temps, doing better arond 72 degrees or under. And fantails for instance, 1 will need about a 20 gallon aquarium for itself at full grown size. So I would decide if you want to go tropical or coolwater(goldfish). I would indeed cycle your tank. It takes about 24 hours to get rid of the chlorine, but this is by no means a cycle. It is best to get your tank up and running for a min of 5 days. A great fish to cycle with are zebra danios, cloud tetra or skirted tetra. ~Melissa --- Cory Walter <coryswalter@...> wrote: > Kelly....not sure about the cycling. I never cycled > any of my tanks but I know it is a standard > practice. About the goldfish......they are "messy" > fish and should not be mixed with freshwater > tropicals. The tropicals require a warmer water > temperature than the goldfish does....goldfish like > it kinda cool. Good luck with your little crab..... > > Cory S. Walter > > Have a wonderful, blessed day! > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kelly <mrskjtracy@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2008 9:18:32 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] New and in trouble already! > > About a month ago, I decided to set up my 1 1/2 > gallon tank, I had a > Placo, a male fan tailed guppy, and 13 feeder > guppies in it. All was > fine. Then I decided to set up my 10 gallon last > week. I knew > nothing of cycling the tank, so I put the water in > with the > dechlorinator and PH Stabalizer and put in my fan > tailed guppy, my 11 > feeder guppies that were still alive from the other > tank and I bought > 3 goldfish, 1 neon, a catfish and a fiddler crab. > > The pet store told me that the fiddler crab was > fresh water and that > my feeder guppies were all safe from the fish I had > with them. > Well....silly me...I believed the "experts". The > next day my neon was > dead and this is when I learned about cycling the > tank...so I got the > chemicals for that. Then the next day most of my > feeder guppies and > my fan tailed guppy were gone, by the next day all > the feeder guppies > were gone...I am guessing the goldfish ate them? The > good news was > that I still had my Pleco in the small tank and one > of my guppies had > laid eggs before the transfer, so I now have a bunch > of baby feeder > guppies. > > Then last night I was doing some research and > learned that fiddler > crabs need not only salt water to live, but dry sand > and fresh water > to drink! Ok, so I don't want "Kermit the Crab" to > die, so I am > setting up my 20 gallon tank for him. I am going > tomorrow to get the > sand and salt stuff. I have the water in the tank > right now doing > whatever it is supposed to be doing. Are there any > fish that I can > put in with him in that tank? > > Yesterday, I also bought a 55 gallon tank and got > that all set up, > except it doesn't have a filter. Someone told me > that I will need 2 > filters for 30-60 gallon tanks, is this true? He > also told me that I > don't have to cycle it...he said he has never heard > of such a crazy > thing...do I have to cycle it? I put the stuff in to > speed it > up...how long will it take? He also said that > goldfish are extremely > dirty and that I can't house them with other fish > cause they will give > them diseases and kill them...is this true? > > Sorry for the long post, but I appreciate all the > help I can get. > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25776	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: New and in trouble already!

Kelly, Not necessarily in any kind of order, but more stream of consciousness, though I am gradually sinking into unconsciousness <g>. The biological cycle is very important in the keeping of an aquarium. If you look through the archives here, you will find many discussions of the topic. In a nutshell, fish will release, among other things, ammonia into the water. The cycle will take this ammonia and convert it to nitrites and then nitrates. This is done by bacteria in your tank and on filter media. Ammonia is very toxic, with toxicity varying somewhat dependant on pH. Nitrite is also toxic to fish, but not so much as ammonia. The final product, nitrate can be toxic to fish, but at fairly high levels for most fish. Without help, a cycle will take from 4-8 weeks to establish. Google "fishless cycling" for some information about cycling your tank without fish. Now that you have a 55 gallon tank, and goldfish, move the goldfish over there, and put a canister filter on it. As the goldfish grow, you will need to decide what to do with one of them since you can only have 2 in a 55. Goldfish, when they are adults, really need about 30 gallons of water per fish to do well, but you can usually get away with 2 in a 55. You will not need a heater on this tank, unless you expect the room temperature to get below 55 degrees F. Neons are pretty sensitive to nitrogenous wastes ( the ammonia, etc.). This is why you probably lost it first. With the goldfish putting out waste as they do, the neon could not handle it and died. Once that happened, the ammonia output increased as the body began to decompose. The feeder guppies are not strong specimens to begin with, and they started to fall, and with each death. More toxins in the water working against the others still living. Kind of like a chain reaction. Don't be going out and buying all kinds of chemicals. You simply need a good water conditioner--look for Ultimate distributed by HikariUSA (vested interest here, I know the guy who deve3loped it) and get yourself a good set of test kits, I recommend the AquaTru kits by Kordon, if you can find them. Use the test kits to get a baseline measurement of your tap water so that you have something to measure against, and then test and test again during the cycle period, at least once a day. Once your cycle has vompleted, you can back off on the frequency of the testing, but yo should continue to test. I cannot comment on the crabs, since I have never kept them. Others should be able to fill you in. I think I've given you some food for thought here. Feel free to ask more questions, and never do anything with fish in a hurry. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New and in trouble already! About a month ago, I decided to set up my 1 1/2 gallon tank, I had a Placo, a male fan tailed guppy, and 13 feeder guppies in it. All was fine. Then I decided to set up my 10 gallon last week. I knew nothing of cycling the tank, so I put the water in with the dechlorinator and PH Stabalizer and put in my fan tailed guppy, my 11 feeder guppies that were still alive from the other tank and I bought 3 goldfish, 1 neon, a catfish and a fiddler crab. The pet store told me that the fiddler crab was fresh water and that my feeder guppies were all safe from the fish I had with them. Well....silly me...I believed the "experts". The next day my neon was dead and this is when I learned about cycling the tank...so I got the chemicals for that. Then the next day most of my feeder guppies and my fan tailed guppy were gone, by the next day all the feeder guppies were gone...I am guessing the goldfish ate them? The good news was that I still had my Pleco in the small tank and one of my guppies had laid eggs before the transfer, so I now have a bunch of baby feeder guppies. Then last night I was doing some research and learned that fiddler crabs need not only salt water to live, but dry sand and fresh water to drink! Ok, so I don't want "Kermit the Crab" to die, so I am setting up my 20 gallon tank for him. I am going tomorrow to get the sand and salt stuff. I have the water in the tank right now doing whatever it is supposed to be doing. Are there any fish that I can put in with him in that tank? Yesterday, I also bought a 55 gallon tank and got that all set up, except it doesn't have a filter. Someone told me that I will need 2 filters for 30-60 gallon tanks, is this true? He also told me that I don't have to cycle it...he said he has never heard of such a crazy thing...do I have to cycle it? I put the stuff in to speed it up...how long will it take? He also said that goldfish are extremely dirty and that I can't house them with other fish cause they will give them diseases and kill them...is this true? Sorry for the long post, but I appreciate all the help I can get.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25777	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions....

As far as such measurements go, pH, GH, and other water parameters, there has not been a real good record of water conditions where the fish are found until relatively recently, and much has not yet hit the general literature (and many authors have simply copied from others, perpetuation bad information as well as good). Bettas, for the most part, are found in still waters, high in tannins, which pretty much points to an acidic pH rather than neutral. However, the Betta splendens, the one usually found in stores, has been highly modified by man, so they may do better in the pH they have been raised in, which is likely to be almost impossible to determine in a commercial setting. The dwarf cichlids, commonly known as Rams, have been found in water with a pH of less than 5, with very little in the way of measurable GH (dH) or KH. Take the listing for such things with a grain of salt. If the fish are doing well, don't worry about it at all. Fish are pretty adaptable creatures. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anita Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hi - I'm a new aquarist with fishless cycle questions.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: >> There are fish that would just love to live in the water you have. Where did you get the idea that the levels of pH and GH you are currently seeing are not suitable for fish? There are fish that would even enjoy a lower pH and GH than you have now.>> Hi Steve - I had read that bettas prefer a more neutral pH, and the API chart shows that my current GH levels are better for marine fish. So for my purposes I wasn't sure if the conditions were ideal, but I wasn't specific about that was I? ;-) I'm glad my plants may be okay because some of them have new growth. And aside from that fact that I'd prefer not to kill anything out of ignorance, I do not want dead plant material mucking up my tank either. :) Anita

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25778	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2008
Subject: Re: New and in trouble already!

Hi Kelly, I see that a couple of others have already replied but I wanted to chime in also. You are making a lot of newbie mistakes... the same ones many of us made before learning proper fish keeping. Go to my blog http://GoldLenny.Blogspot.com and on the right side, you will see links to my many "articles". Under my article "A to Z of Fish Keeping", right near the top of that page, there are two different online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics. Come back here with any questions on anything and we will do the best we can to walk you through various steps. There are also links to Fishless Cycling, Cycling With Fish, Filter Maintenance & Cleaning, etc... some of the things you will need to know now that you are in the hobby. I also want to emphasize that the Pleco and Goldfish are BIG fish... or at least they are supposed to grow up to be BIG fish so they need BIG tanks. Three goldfish should be in a 90G+ tank. The Pleco, if a common pleco, which is the most common sold in stores, grows to 18-24" long and need a 75G+ tank by themselves.. or to share with a couple of other smaller fish. Come back with lots of questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New and in trouble already! About a month ago, I decided to set up my 1 1/2 gallon tank, I had a Placo, a male fan tailed guppy, and 13 feeder guppies in it. All was fine. Then I decided to set up my 10 gallon last week. I knew nothing of cycling the tank, so I put the water in with the dechlorinator and PH Stabalizer and put in my fan tailed guppy, my 11 feeder guppies that were still alive from the other tank and I bought 3 goldfish, 1 neon, a catfish and a fiddler crab. The pet store told me that the fiddler crab was fresh water and that my feeder guppies were all safe from the fish I had with them. Well....silly me...I believed the "experts". The next day my neon was dead and this is when I learned about cycling the tank...so I got the chemicals for that. Then the next day most of my feeder guppies and my fan tailed guppy were gone, by the next day all the feeder guppies were gone...I am guessing the goldfish ate them? The good news was that I still had my Pleco in the small tank and one of my guppies had laid eggs before the transfer, so I now have a bunch of baby feeder guppies. Then last night I was doing some research and learned that fiddler crabs need not only salt water to live, but dry sand and fresh water to drink! Ok, so I don't want "Kermit the Crab" to die, so I am setting up my 20 gallon tank for him. I am going tomorrow to get the sand and salt stuff. I have the water in the tank right now doing whatever it is supposed to be doing. Are there any fish that I can put in with him in that tank? Yesterday, I also bought a 55 gallon tank and got that all set up, except it doesn't have a filter. Someone told me that I will need 2 filters for 30-60 gallon tanks, is this true? He also told me that I don't have to cycle it...he said he has never heard of such a crazy thing...do I have to cycle it? I put the stuff in to speed it up...how long will it take? He also said that goldfish are extremely dirty and that I can't house them with other fish cause they will give them diseases and kill them...is this true? Sorry for the long post, but I appreciate all the help I can get. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1261 - Release Date: 2/5/2008 8:57 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25779	From: Gregg	Date: 2/7/2008
Subject: Shelties vs. Border Collies

Don't mind Steve, folks! He's just trying to jerk my chain! If we weren't in Sheltie Rescue, we'd be in BC Rescue and Steve knows it! ;-) -- Gregg Bender www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25780	From: Gregg	Date: 2/7/2008
Subject: Guppies and Kermit the Crab

When I was growing up in Puerto Rico, guppies were found everywhere, including in tidal estuaries that opened into the Atlantic Ocean. They adapt well to strong brackish water if it is changed gradually. I never had to buy feeder guppies - all I had to do is go net a couple hundred. -- Gregg Bender www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25781	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 2/7/2008
Subject: Rescue work -Off topic

I too am involved in rescue, it's nice to know that others in the group are too. I'm associated with two rescue groups. Lone star equine rescue and True blue animal rescue. Year before last t-bar (true blue animal rescue) won ABC extreme home makeover. It's was wonderful, they built our president and founder a new 3300 sq ft home as will as a state of the art horse barn, dog kennel,and cat house! Check it out at www.t-bar.org And to my fellow rescue workers, keep it up! Thank You for what you doing in the name of humanity It's heart wrenching work.........with a huge reward ! (at least most of the time) DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25782	From: rahj_dg	Date: 2/7/2008
Subject: Ghost Shrimp

Hi everyone, One of my ghost shrimps has eggs she is carrying underneath herself. How long do I have to wait untill they hatch? What type of water do the babies need? I am going to move her to a seperate tank should I put one of the males in there with her or would they just stress her out and eat the babies? I looked on the web quick and all I found for directions was "add the proper amount of aquarium salt". So any info anyone can direct me to would be great. Thank you Gina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25783	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/7/2008
Subject: Should I sell my convicts?

I'm trying to decide what to do with my convict couple now that I have a new tank. I was planning to transfer them to it, but now I'm just not sure. I do like them. And I'm proud that I was able to sex them on the first try even though they're only about 3-6 months old and 1- 1.5 inches long. I'm just not sure I can deal with this much fry!! I had originally planned to give them away to anyone I could find who wanted them, like a free goldfish thing, but now that I know more about them and how much care they need, I'm not sure I feel good about that. Any suggestions? TIA, Cheryl :D

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25784	From: Abbey	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Recurring Ich

Hello folks! I'm new here and am glad to have found the group! Anyway, I've been experiencing a perplexing issue in one of my tanks. For about 2 months now, I have this recurring case of ich that comes back once the temperature is lowered. I've been treating it by increasing temps to 86-88 degrees F, sometimes for up to 2 weeks at a time. The salt I added was negligible since there are scaleless fish in there. As soon as the ich appears to be gone and I've waited a few days without seeing any spots, I reduce the temperature and within a few days it's back! So now the temp basically stays up permanently which has resulted in many of my live plants dying and wilting. Any ideas on what could be causing this? I haven't added any new fish in a long while, the water parameters are ideal, and a weekly 20- 30% water change has taken place. So far I've lost my two albino corydoras, but the other fish all appear to be fine if not slightly under-weight (for whatever reason). Any advice is appreciated! Abbey dsmfishgal@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25785	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Recurring Ich

The problem you are facing is that you are not killing the ich when it is most vulnerable, in the free swimming stage. The purpose of raising the water temperature is to speed the life cycle of the ich parasite, not to kill it. You do not say how much salt you have added to your tank during your treatments, but, obviously, it is not enough. You mention that you are worried about harming your scaleless fish with the addition of salt. Don't be so worried. You are probably doing more harm by letting the parasite persist in your tank and periodically raising the water temperature in your effort to remove the parasite. Treat your tank with at least one tablespoon of salt per five gallons. Watch your fish. If they are doing well, then you can increase the dosage to 1 teaspoon per gallon. Continue the treatment for at least one week. If your scaleless fish are showing signs of distress, do an immediate water change to reduce the salinity, and move them to a quarantine tank for at least the duration of your treatment, but 21 days would be best. Watch them for signs of ich, and if they show it, an alternative treatment will need to be used. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Abbey Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Recurring Ich Hello folks! I'm new here and am glad to have found the group! Anyway, I've been experiencing a perplexing issue in one of my tanks. For about 2 months now, I have this recurring case of ich that comes back once the temperature is lowered. I've been treating it by increasing temps to 86-88 degrees F, sometimes for up to 2 weeks at a time. The salt I added was negligible since there are scaleless fish in there. As soon as the ich appears to be gone and I've waited a few days without seeing any spots, I reduce the temperature and within a few days it's back! So now the temp basically stays up permanently which has resulted in many of my live plants dying and wilting. Any ideas on what could be causing this? I haven't added any new fish in a long while, the water parameters are ideal, and a weekly 20- 30% water change has taken place. So far I've lost my two albino corydoras, but the other fish all appear to be fine if not slightly under-weight (for whatever reason). Any advice is appreciated! Abbey dsmfishgal@... Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25786	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Recurring Ich

Are you sure it's Ich? What kind of fish do you have? Have you tried any types of meds? You do not state how long you take in raising and lower the temp so I wanted to address this since it sounds like you may be reducing the temperature too quickly. Under normal conditions with healthy fish, you shouldn't raise or lower it more than 1-2F per day and with your fish already in a stressed condition, 1F would be the most you should raise and lower it each day. If you are lowering it too quickly, that additional stressor could reintroduce the Ich parasite cycle. I've read some theories that the Ich parasite may live dormant inside certain fish... like a typhoid Mary... and then certain conditions cause them to become active. This is a possibility in your situation. What is your water source? Public utility or natural spring or well? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Abbey Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 2:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Recurring Ich Hello folks! I'm new here and am glad to have found the group! Anyway, I've been experiencing a perplexing issue in one of my tanks. For about 2 months now, I have this recurring case of ich that comes back once the temperature is lowered. I've been treating it by increasing temps to 86-88 degrees F, sometimes for up to 2 weeks at a time. The salt I added was negligible since there are scaleless fish in there. As soon as the ich appears to be gone and I've waited a few days without seeing any spots, I reduce the temperature and within a few days it's back! So now the temp basically stays up permanently which has resulted in many of my live plants dying and wilting. Any ideas on what could be causing this? I haven't added any new fish in a long while, the water parameters are ideal, and a weekly 20- 30% water change has taken place. So far I've lost my two albino corydoras, but the other fish all appear to be fine if not slightly under-weight (for whatever reason). Any advice is appreciated! Abbey dsmfishgal@... <mailto:dsmfishgal%40gmail.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1265 - Release Date: 2/7/2008 11:17 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25787	From: Rhonda Wilson	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Ghost Shrimp

Ghost shrimp are very easy to breed. If you have a heavily planted tank and not too hungry fish you should probably have some of the babies live. Some shrimp like the Amano's need to go through a larval stage in salt water, but this isn't the case with the ghost shrimp, they will carry the eggs and babies until they are ready to head off on their own, mini versions of the parents, no special care required. I've had ghost shrimp breeding in my tanks for years with no problems, they're kind of like guppies of the shrimp world. Cherry shrimp, snowball shrimp and some of the others that are more recently available are also very easy to breed in the same way. I haven't ever bothered moving the mom shrimp, but if your tank doesn't have a lot of hiding places for the babies or your worried your fish might eat them all, then you should be able to move her in to a maternity tank, just as you would with your fish. The babies will eat the same thing the parents would eat, fish food, algae, whatever is available to munch on. Rhonda naturalaquariums.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25788	From: bmp	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp

Thank you Rhonda for adding these words. I am not the original poster of the question but am a new keeper of these little shrimp. I bought some more yesterday based on your recent column in TFH describing them as good critters to help control algae. My 10 gallon quarantine tank has more algae (the bright green kind on the glass and fuzzy green on some young Java ferns tied to an ornament) than I would like. I am hoping the shrimp will be able to make a dent in it. If they also do well enough to reproduce, I'll be happy for that too! Thanks for joining in, Beverly --- Rhonda Wilson <rhonda@...> wrote: > Ghost shrimp are very easy to breed. If you have a > heavily planted tank > and not too hungry fish you should probably have > some of the babies > live. Some shrimp like the Amano's need to go > through a larval stage in > salt water, but this isn't the case with the ghost > shrimp, they will > carry the eggs and babies until they are ready to > head off on their own, > mini versions of the parents, no special care > required. I've had ghost > shrimp breeding in my tanks for years with no > problems, they're kind of > like guppies of the shrimp world. Cherry shrimp, > snowball shrimp and > some of the others that are more recently available > are also very easy > to breed in the same way. I haven't ever bothered > moving the mom shrimp, > but if your tank doesn't have a lot of hiding places > for the babies or > your worried your fish might eat them all, then you > should be able to > move her in to a maternity tank, just as you would > with your fish. The > babies will eat the same thing the parents would > eat, fish food, algae, > whatever is available to munch on. > > Rhonda > naturalaquariums.com Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25789	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Shelties vs. Border Collies

Gregg: I tend to be a little biased towards Shelties as that is all we've had. My Mom still has 3 Shelties, 2blue merle and a bi-black. I've been to shows with my Mom and Dad (when he was alive and showing) and seen BCs. I am sure if we would have gotten a BC instead of a Sheltie, we'd still have them. Both animals are adorable and have a wonderful personality. Kudos for you in being involved with rescue efforts. Rob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25790	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Recurring Ich

Hi Abbey, Just as has been already suggested, I too suspect the possiblity that you may be decreasing the temperature too fast when you do drop it. Barring that, I'd like to ask excactly what you mean when reducing the temperature, by stating ". . . and I've waited a few days without seeing any spots." What are "a few days"? Since Icvh, at that temperature, has a life cycle of about 48 hours, you need to wait at least another full day after that possibility of seeing Ich ago -- or at least another 3 FULL DAYS after seeing the last of the spots on your fish. Then too, look carefully, as you may have missed some spots. So, while a full heat treatment can last about 10 days (on average), the time element can vary depending on when the last Ich generation fell off its fish host ready to emerge again on that 8th day. This would decide if and when it were safe to start lowering the temperature after the 10th day. Be advised too, that there have been reports during the last few years of an especially virulent strain of Ich circulating in the hobby, said to withstand these temperatures, and temperatures up to 91 o F. Quite possibly (but still unknown) is that they came about with the improper use of medications, allowing a mutation of it. Luckily its still quite rare, but apparently exists Most tropical species of fish will tolerature (under clean and well aerated conditions) temperatures up to at least 92 o or slightly more, but upwards of 96 o is to be avoided. I would not go above 92 o if at all possible (although 93 o is still safe). As you might think, these higher temperatures may put additional stress on the fish due to decreased O2 levels, but will not be detrimental. Added care must be used when lowering the temperature from this range after treatment. Consider using this treatment, but only after the present treatment fails,and then, keep a close eye on all your fish as to their respiration (cooler water tropicals may not take as kindly to this as others). Ray > > Hello folks! > > I'm new here and am glad to have found the group! > > Anyway, I've been experiencing a perplexing issue in one of my > tanks. For about 2 months now, I have this recurring case of ich > that comes back once the temperature is lowered. I've been treating > it by increasing temps to 86-88 degrees F, sometimes for up to 2 > weeks at a time. The salt I added was negligible since there are > scaleless fish in there. > > As soon as the ich appears to be gone and I've waited a few days > without seeing any spots, I reduce the temperature and within a few > days it's back! So now the temp basically stays up permanently which > has resulted in many of my live plants dying and wilting. > > Any ideas on what could be causing this? I haven't added any new > fish in a long while, the water parameters are ideal, and a weekly 20- > 30% water change has taken place. So far I've lost my two albino > corydoras, but the other fish all appear to be fine if not slightly > under-weight (for whatever reason). > > Any advice is appreciated! > > Abbey > dsmfishgal@... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25791	From: rsteph49	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Need Suggestions for cleaning crew

I've got a 20 gallon FOLR tank with about 17 lbs. of live rock and argonite reef sand substrate (slightly more coarse than standard sand, but not as bad as freshwater gravel. I currently have 3 fish in the tank, which will likely be all the fish I'll add; they are 1 common clownfish and 2 flame firefish. I'm letting the new firefish settle in still, but sometime in the near future I'm going to be looking to start adding my "cleaning crew" - snails, crabs, shrimp, etc. So I was curious what kind of suggestions people might have as far as type, and quantity. I was thinking of getting a skunk cleaner shrimp, some kind of crab or starfish, and maybe a snail or two. This is my first try at a saltwater tank, so I was hoping to get some ideas for things that would live well with the fish I've got, and help me by eating all the diatoms, fish waster, and leftover food in my tank. I wasn't sure if starfish would thrive well with the substrate I've got, or if they require a very fine sand bottom. I also wasn't sure if any of these invertebrates required special lighting over and above what I already have; I have an 18 inch, 15 watt, 50/50 bulb from Zoo Med. I've got a week or two still before I start adding anything else, so I've got plenty of time for research. Any suggestions, or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25792	From: bruce cohen	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Need Suggestions for cleaning crew

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rsteph49" <rsteph49@...> wrote: > here is where I got mine and they have the clean up crews and will make them to your aquarium size I have a 24 gal nano How ever I would suggest you get some clown gobies. Mark at blue zoo aquatics told me that I can have 11 fish+ assortment of lps and 2 different cleaning crews. the web site is www.bluezooaquatics.com > I've got a 20 gallon FOLR tank with about 17 lbs. of live rock and > argonite reef sand substrate (slightly more coarse than standard > sand, but not as bad as freshwater gravel. I currently have 3 fish in > the tank, which will likely be all the fish I'll add; they are 1 > common clownfish and 2 flame firefish. I'm letting the new firefish > settle in still, but sometime in the near future I'm going to be > looking to start adding my "cleaning crew" - snails, crabs, shrimp, > etc. > > So I was curious what kind of suggestions people might have as far as > type, and quantity. I was thinking of getting a skunk cleaner shrimp, > some kind of crab or starfish, and maybe a snail or two. This is my > first try at a saltwater tank, so I was hoping to get some ideas for > things that would live well with the fish I've got, and help me by > eating all the diatoms, fish waster, and leftover food in my tank. > > I wasn't sure if starfish would thrive well with the substrate I've > got, or if they require a very fine sand bottom. I also wasn't sure > if any of these invertebrates required special lighting over and > above what I already have; I have an 18 inch, 15 watt, 50/50 bulb > from Zoo Med. > > I've got a week or two still before I start adding anything else, so > I've got plenty of time for research. Any suggestions, or opinions > would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25793	From: Kelly	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Kermit the Crab Died :(

I came home from work today and Kermit my fiddler crab was dead...just as predicted from the freshwater. I was trying to get the other tank set up for him, but WalMart doesn't sell sand this time of year and I hadn't had a chance to go to Home Depot yet. I know I could have gone to a pet store and gotten sand...but they would have charge me up the you know what for sand, and I am between jobs. I did get some salt at WalMart though, but when I looked at it, it said it is salt for freshwater aquariums...now I'm all confused! Would this salt have worked for Kermit? Should I put it in my other freshwater aquariums? If so, how often? I am so mad at the pet store...Kermit was just a sale to them...but he was my pet and I really liked him. Next time I am in there, I will tell them that they should educated people...especially when they specifically ask if something can survive in freshwater like I had. I will also let them know that I will take my business elsewhere from now on. The reason I had gone to them is because they are locally owned and I try to support local business, but I guess they lost this customer!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25794	From: Cory Walter	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Kermit the Crab Died :(

Kelly, I am so sorry for the loss of Kermit......and you are right.....these little animals and fish are just sales and dollar signs to so many, but we get attached to them, love them, nurture them and watch them grow up.....they can become family........don't get discouraged, though. You will get everything going great and will soon love this hobby and your new little pets. Cory S. Walter Have a wonderful, blessed day! ----- Original Message ---- From: Kelly <mrskjtracy@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 9:58:14 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Kermit the Crab Died :( I came home from work today and Kermit my fiddler crab was dead...just as predicted from the freshwater. I was trying to get the other tank set up for him, but WalMart doesn't sell sand this time of year and I hadn't had a chance to go to Home Depot yet. I know I could have gone to a pet store and gotten sand...but they would have charge me up the you know what for sand, and I am between jobs. I did get some salt at WalMart though, but when I looked at it, it said it is salt for freshwater aquariums... now I'm all confused! Would this salt have worked for Kermit? Should I put it in my other freshwater aquariums? If so, how often? I am so mad at the pet store...Kermit was just a sale to them...but he was my pet and I really liked him. Next time I am in there, I will tell them that they should educated people...especially when they specifically ask if something can survive in freshwater like I had. I will also let them know that I will take my business elsewhere from now on. The reason I had gone to them is because they are locally owned and I try to support local business, but I guess they lost this customer! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25795	From: Angela	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Kermit the Crab Died :(

You should contact the store manager and tell them what happened so that their employees can be better educated and steps can be taken so that this doesn't happen again. Chances are they will also refund you.. I know not the point, but still.. -------Original Message------- From: Kelly Date: 2/8/2008 9:58:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Kermit the Crab Died :( I came home from work today and Kermit my fiddler crab was dead...just as predicted from the freshwater. I was trying to get the other tank set up for him, but WalMart doesn't sell sand this time of year and I hadn't had a chance to go to Home Depot yet. I know I could have gone to a pet store and gotten sand...but they would have charge me up the you know what for sand, and I am between jobs. I did get some salt at WalMart though, but when I looked at it, it said it is salt for freshwater aquariums...now I'm all confused! Would this salt have worked for Kermit? Should I put it in my other freshwater aquariums? If so, how often? I am so mad at the pet store...Kermit was just a sale to them...but he was my pet and I really liked him. Next time I am in there, I will tell them that they should educated people...especially when they specifically ask if something can survive in freshwater like I had. I will also let them know that I will take my business elsewhere from now on. The reason I had gone to them is because they are locally owned and I try to support local business, but I guess they lost this customer! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25796	From: bmp	Date: 2/8/2008
Subject: Re: Guppies and Kermit the Crab and the Border Wall

--- Gregg <greggb57@...> wrote: > When I was growing up in Puerto Rico, guppies were > found everywhere, > including in tidal estuaries that opened into the > Atlantic Ocean. They adapt > well to strong brackish water if it is changed > gradually. I never had to buy > feeder guppies - all I had to do is go net a couple > hundred. > > -- > Gregg Bender > www.nvsr.org Hi Gregg, For a fishkeeper, that sounds idyllic! Here, in deep south Texas, I'd like to go dipping in the Rio Grande River or its smaller offshoots. I would love to see if I can collect any Poecilia formosa (the molly with the unique reproductive habits, profiled in Ted Colletti's column in the Jan. 2008 TFH). However, with the proposed Border Wall becoming more likely to happen, it will effectively keep people like me (i.e. US citizens) away from the river. People away from the area may not realize it, but such a barrier will have great impact on the local ecology, for the worse and not for the better. And it is highly debatable how effective it would be in keeping out illegal immigrants. I will not turn this into a political posting, I just wanted to say that I wish it was so easy for everyone to go out and find wonderful fish in the wild. Cheers and so long, Beverly in Texas Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25797	From: Abbey	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Recurring Ich

Hi Lenny, It's white spots on the fish, so I assume that's ich. I had it another tank and treated it with high temps and salt and haven't had anymore issues. Just this one particular tank... This tank houses a school of dwarf neon rainbowfish (M. praecox), kuhli loaches, two corydoras, and two other catfish. No, I have not tried any meds for fear of damaging the established bacterial colonies. The location of this tank makes adjusting the temperature a little tricky. It just tends to run high regularly (around 82-84 degrees F) in that spot. Plus the heater seems to be defective. It stays on all the time unless I unplug it. So, to answer your question...the temperature tends to stay above 80 degrees F regardless. When I increase it, I take it up to around 88, which takes a couple of days usually. And I leave it at that for two weeks or so then unplug the heater. Public utility water source and again, not having any problems with the other tanks that are all receiving the same treatment. Abbey --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are you sure it's Ich? > > What kind of fish do you have? > > Have you tried any types of meds? > > You do not state how long you take in raising and lower the temp so I wanted > to address this since it sounds like you may be reducing the temperature too > quickly. Under normal conditions with healthy fish, you shouldn't raise or > lower it more than 1-2F per day and with your fish already in a stressed > condition, 1F would be the most you should raise and lower it each day. If > you are lowering it too quickly, that additional stressor could reintroduce > the Ich parasite cycle. I've read some theories that the Ich parasite may > live dormant inside certain fish... like a typhoid Mary... and then certain > conditions cause them to become active. This is a possibility in your > situation. > > What is your water source? Public utility or natural spring or well? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25798	From: Abbey	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Recurring Ich

Thanks guys for the advice and help! I wait at least 4 days after seeing the spots gone before pulling the plug on the heater. Haven't taken the temp up past 90 yet and would really hate to do so since the plants are wilting. I'll go ahead and try adding more salt. I've been using it sparingly (less than 1 tbsp. per 5 gallons) because I read corydoras are sensitive to high salinity (two have died so far for whatever reason) and then the loaches are scaleless. But we'll give it a go and see how they react. I had read somewhere that ich generally doesn't survive at temps above 86 degrees (recommending that I stay between 86-90), so that's why I opted to use heat alone as the treatment in that tank. My other tank is brackish so increasing the salt wasn't an issue. Thanks again! Abbey --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Abbey, Just as has been already suggested, I too suspect the > possiblity that you may be decreasing the temperature too fast when > you do drop it. Barring that, I'd like to ask excactly what you mean > when reducing the temperature, by stating ". . . and I've waited a > few days without seeing any spots." What are "a few days"? Since > Icvh, at that temperature, has a life cycle of about 48 hours, you > need to wait at least another full day after that possibility of > seeing Ich ago -- or at least another 3 FULL DAYS after seeing the > last of the spots on your fish. Then too, look carefully, as you may > have missed some spots. So, while a full heat treatment can last > about 10 days (on average), the time element can vary depending on > when the last Ich generation fell off its fish host ready to emerge > again on that 8th day. This would decide if and when it were safe to > start lowering the temperature after the 10th day. > > Be advised too, that there have been reports during the last few > years of an especially virulent strain of Ich circulating in the > hobby, said to withstand these temperatures, and temperatures up to > 91 o F. Quite possibly (but still unknown) is that they came about > with the improper use of medications, allowing a mutation of it. > Luckily its still quite rare, but apparently exists Most tropical > species of fish will tolerature (under clean and well aerated > conditions) temperatures up to at least 92 o or slightly more, but > upwards of 96 o is to be avoided. I would not go above 92 o if at > all possible (although 93 o is still safe). As you might think, > these higher temperatures may put additional stress on the fish due > to decreased O2 levels, but will not be detrimental. Added care must > be used when lowering the temperature from this range after > treatment. Consider using this treatment, but only after the present > treatment fails,and then, keep a close eye on all your fish as to > their respiration (cooler water tropicals may not take as kindly to > this as others). Ray > > > > > > Hello folks! > > > > I'm new here and am glad to have found the group! > > > > Anyway, I've been experiencing a perplexing issue in one of my > > tanks. For about 2 months now, I have this recurring case of ich > > that comes back once the temperature is lowered. I've been > treating > > it by increasing temps to 86-88 degrees F, sometimes for up to 2 > > weeks at a time. The salt I added was negligible since there are > > scaleless fish in there. > > > > As soon as the ich appears to be gone and I've waited a few days > > without seeing any spots, I reduce the temperature and within a few > > days it's back! So now the temp basically stays up permanently > which > > has resulted in many of my live plants dying and wilting. > > > > Any ideas on what could be causing this? I haven't added any new > > fish in a long while, the water parameters are ideal, and a weekly > 20- > > 30% water change has taken place. So far I've lost my two albino > > corydoras, but the other fish all appear to be fine if not slightly > > under-weight (for whatever reason). > > > > Any advice is appreciated! > > > > Abbey > > dsmfishgal@ > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25799	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Recurring Ich

I'm not sure if you saw \\Steve//'s reply but he pointed out that not using salt or any meds and just using heat will not kill the Ich parasite. Heat only speeds up it's lifecycle but with nothing to kill it (i.e.-Salt or meds), it will keep coming back. I missed covering this point in my first reply. If your fish are intolerant of salt, then you need to find a medicine that will work on all of your fish or you may have to separate the fish and use different treatments for each species depending on their ability to handle the treatment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Abbey Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Recurring Ich Hi Lenny, It's white spots on the fish, so I assume that's ich. I had it another tank and treated it with high temps and salt and haven't had anymore issues. Just this one particular tank... This tank houses a school of dwarf neon rainbowfish (M. praecox), kuhli loaches, two corydoras, and two other catfish. No, I have not tried any meds for fear of damaging the established bacterial colonies. The location of this tank makes adjusting the temperature a little tricky. It just tends to run high regularly (around 82-84 degrees F) in that spot. Plus the heater seems to be defective. It stays on all the time unless I unplug it. So, to answer your question...the temperature tends to stay above 80 degrees F regardless. When I increase it, I take it up to around 88, which takes a couple of days usually. And I leave it at that for two weeks or so then unplug the heater. Public utility water source and again, not having any problems with the other tanks that are all receiving the same treatment. Abbey --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are you sure it's Ich? > > What kind of fish do you have? > > Have you tried any types of meds? > > You do not state how long you take in raising and lower the temp so I wanted > to address this since it sounds like you may be reducing the temperature too > quickly. Under normal conditions with healthy fish, you shouldn't raise or > lower it more than 1-2F per day and with your fish already in a stressed > condition, 1F would be the most you should raise and lower it each day. If > you are lowering it too quickly, that additional stressor could reintroduce > the Ich parasite cycle. I've read some theories that the Ich parasite may > live dormant inside certain fish... like a typhoid Mary... and then certain > conditions cause them to become active. This is a possibility in your > situation. > > What is your water source? Public utility or natural spring or well? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1267 - Release Date: 2/8/2008 8:12 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25800	From: Jenn	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

Well, apparently the fish love them. I searched the tank and there isn't a trace of them. I guess they had a feast! Now, if I could find a permanent solution to my rams horn snail outbreaks. I will go for months with out seeing any and then...boom...what seems like millions of tiny little snails. I do have a yoyo loach, angelicus botia and a red tail botia but they don't seem to be that interested. Any suggestions? I plan on doing a thorough cleaning of my filters to make sure there are no eggs and snails hiding out there. I remove all that I find in my tank whenever I see them. Any one need some snails? Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25801	From: Jenn	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Not in regards to fish, but cool anyway...

I am totally excited! A friend of mine has hatched axolotls and in a few months I am getting some!!! I am researching the best way to keep and raise them but if anyone out there has any experience, please share!! jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25802	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

Make sure you do not overclean your filters and put your tank into a mini-cycle. If the tank is the right size and not fully stocked, overcleaning the filters is not as much of an issue but in a fully stocked non-planted tank, it will cause a mini-cycle. If it's a planted tank, are you occasionally buying new plants? That's usually where a new snail infestation comes from although I did notice that the PetsMart is now keeping a couple of loaches in the plant tanks... except for the ones with the mystery/apple snails. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 2:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Fleas Well, apparently the fish love them. I searched the tank and there isn't a trace of them. I guess they had a feast! Now, if I could find a permanent solution to my rams horn snail outbreaks. I will go for months with out seeing any and then...boom...what seems like millions of tiny little snails. I do have a yoyo loach, angelicus botia and a red tail botia but they don't seem to be that interested. Any suggestions? I plan on doing a thorough cleaning of my filters to make sure there are no eggs and snails hiding out there. I remove all that I find in my tank whenever I see them. Any one need some snails? Jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1267 - Release Date: 2/8/2008 8:12 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25803	From: nice6669	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: fillters

i have a a 125 gal tank with 4 oskars to jacs 2 key hole cickklid and bout 6 diferent catfish i whant to know what is the best filter i can buy 4 my tank

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25804	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: fillters

A couple of big canister filters, each rated for about a 300G tank and then a 300G++ tank for the filters to go on to hold all of your fish. But if you are going to just keep the 125G and re-home some of your fish, then two canister filters, each rated for at least a 125G tank. When you want to keep BIG fish, you should double the amount of filtration on a tank to help with the waste and then when doing filter maintenance, you can alternate each filter every week so that one filter system stays fully cycled at all times. You should also be doing several 25% PWC's a week with the amount of bioload in your tank... unless they are all juvi fish and then you could do two a week to keep the hormone levels down so the fish do not get stunted as bad. You need to find out what kind of catfish you have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com References: Oscar - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html Keyhole Cichlid - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cleithracara%20_maronii.html Catfish - ??? Depends on which kind. Some stay very small, others grow over 100 pounds. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nice6669 Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 2:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fillters i have a a 125 gal tank with 4 oskars to jacs 2 key hole cickklid and bout 6 diferent catfish i whant to know what is the best filter i can buy 4 my tank No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1267 - Release Date: 2/8/2008 8:12 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25805	From: Davis	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: "Mini" reef ?

Hello all, I have no experience with salt water aquariums! Recently I saw a 29 G. "mini reef tank" . The so called Nano Cube or Bio Cube that come with lights and filter. Sounds simple and easy enough for a beginner :)) I am sure some of you have experience with this system. I'd like to hear from you the pro and con of these mini reef tanks before I get myself into ..big trouble :)) Thank you. David / Texas --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25806	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Rain Forrests and Shore Lines

Hi Guys, I was wondering if someone could offer some advice. I am starting a 75g tank with a rainforest theme. 2/3 of the tank underwater for fish and plants and 1/3 of tank land based for lizards and others. Putting aside species issues for a moment I had a different question. In conceptualizing this in my mind, I really wanted to create a shore line of sorts. I wanted basically "land" for the reptiles and wasn't quite sure how to do it. I visualize the back of the tank lined with plants but some sort of shore line for the sides of the tank. how would one do this? Am I even communicating this effectively? Ken **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25807	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forrests and Shore Lines

That's a Paludarium and since you mention the Rain Forest, a Biotope may interest you as well. Here's a few sites that will give you more info and you can Google for a lot more info if you run out of reading but the Mongabay site is going to keep you pretty busy. Paludariums - http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm http://badmanstropicalfish.com/paludarium/paludarium.html Biotopes - http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm - scroll down a little to the South American section with several links to various Biotope pages that will detail the species of fish, plants, etc. native to that biotope. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 5:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rain Forrests and Shore Lines Hi Guys, I was wondering if someone could offer some advice. I am starting a 75g tank with a rainforest theme. 2/3 of the tank underwater for fish and plants and 1/3 of tank land based for lizards and others. Putting aside species issues for a moment I had a different question. In conceptualizing this in my mind, I really wanted to create a shore line of sorts. I wanted basically "land" for the reptiles and wasn't quite sure how to do it. I visualize the back of the tank lined with plants but some sort of shore line for the sides of the tank. how would one do this? Am I even communicating this effectively? Ken No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1267 - Release Date: 2/8/2008 8:12 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25808	From: iowakoi	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Spring pond care

Winter is almost over in some parts of the country. Koi and goldfish are becoming more active but don't rush into feeding them until the water temp is at least 55 degrees. Doing a good clean out in the Spring will make the whole season go smoother. Failing to remove the gunk from the winter give algae head start. I found this article Spring Pond Care <http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com/site/page/938981> which reminds us all how important getting a head start on the season is. I bring all my fancies in over the winter and enjoy watching them in my indoor pond. I'm also quarantining new fish until warmer weather. I love pouring over water lily and iris descriptions while trying to pick out new additions for this season. It's a great way to spend a snow day. I can't wait for Spring, Gail at Richdeer3 Pond Supplies <http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com/> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25809	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Should I sell my convicts?

This is why I have only male convicts. I'd love to see them mate and take care of their fry, but I don't want to have to worry about what to do with the fry! We have platies that do nothing but make babies and hubby takes some of the older platies to the local pet store, where they give them away. I don't think the convicts are difficult to care for...I make water changes about every two weeks, but sometimes let them go longer; they seem pretty hardy to me. Their tank has a heater, and they seem to like it warm -- 80 degrees F. When they're in the mating mood (moving the gravel around for nesting and being very still and reclusive) they don't eat much. Convicts are my favorites. If you like the convicts, I suggest you either separate the male from the female, or get rid of one or the other. Depending on your tank size, you may want to get another of the same sex (i.e., if you keep the male, get another male). They need a lot of room because they're very territorial. Sounds to me as though you aren't up to maintaining any tropical fish -- they do take more work than most people think. Reconsider what you are able and willing to do -- for yourself and for the good of the fish. If you think the convicts are too much for you, try to give them away, or take the fry (and male or female or both) to your local pet store and see if they'll take them. (Lesson learned: don't take on the care of any animal -- aquatic or otherwise -- until you know what you're in for and are willing to take on the responsibility.) Shirley --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "my_cycling" <my_cycling@...> wrote: > > I'm trying to decide what to do with my convict couple now that I have > a new tank. I was planning to transfer them to it, but now I'm just > not sure. I do like them. And I'm proud that I was able to sex them > on the first try even though they're only about 3-6 months old and 1- > 1.5 inches long. I'm just not sure I can deal with this much fry!! I > had originally planned to give them away to anyone I could find who > wanted them, like a free goldfish thing, but now that I know more > about them and how much care they need, I'm not sure I feel good about > that. Any suggestions? > > TIA, > > Cheryl > :D >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25810	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 2/9/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forrests and Shore Lines

Hey, I don't know what kind of critters you want to put in there but I will link you up with fire-bellied toads http://www.gopetsamerica.com/small-animals/amphibians/oriental-fire-bellied-toad.aspx They are amazingly hardy, they tolerate a wide range of temps (no heater necessary) and unlike frogs they aren't likely to drown. They become remarkably tame and will take food right out of your fingers. I had one that used to follow my finger up and down his tank for absolute ages; far better than Animal Planet! You can put them in either a plaudarium or a vivarium with a water source. Make sure the lid you use fits tightly: these guys are talented escape artists. Would you believe they can live up to 16 years in captivity? I have had my two for about 4 years now. The only drawback with them is that they are a little bit "poopy" but then hey everybody poops right? You don't need to feed them more often than once a week; they are prone to obesity because they eat like pigs. I can't imagine what kind of reptile species you had in mind; all the ones I can think of are really quite large...? Christa --- Iksnip@... wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I was wondering if someone could offer some advice. > I am starting a 75g > tank with a rainforest theme. 2/3 of the tank > underwater for fish and plants > and 1/3 of tank land based for lizards and others. > Putting aside species > issues for a moment I had a different question. In > conceptualizing this in my > mind, I really wanted to create a shore line of > sorts. I wanted basically > "land" for the reptiles and wasn't quite sure how to > do it. I visualize the back > of the tank lined with plants but some sort of shore > line for the sides of > the tank. how would one do this? Am I even > communicating this effectively? > > Ken > > > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all > time on AOL Music. > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 > 48) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25811	From: Ron	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: fillters

Please don't take this as advise. More of a discussion question. Reason is I'm thinking about a 75 gal up to 125 gal tank. My filters I'm thinking about are eheim 2215's. Two of them for a 75. Or three of them for a 125. Now heres the real thinking. I read an article about using filtering the bottom of the tank with many returns at the bottom. Said it did good in helping the tank to stay clean. So... what about in a 75 gal taking two nice big sponge inputs at the bottom and outputting at the top. Then at the top with a input that could also serve as a skimmer, outputting at the several bottom outputs. Was wondering if a double sponge return with one sticking above the surface would work good as a surface skimmer? I also had a thought about a separate tank. Thinking about one of those high square ones as a filter tank. Have it heavily planted, heavily lighted, heavy gravel and earth. Then having siphon pipes back to the main tank. With a pump pumping from the main tank to the filter tank. Only problem is having a bubble switch shut off for the pump in case the level gets too high in the filter tank. Could even use this tank as a breeder tank for guppies? For food for some cichlids? Ron Pyle Sioux Falls, SD When being chased by a bear: You don't have to outrun the bear. You just have to outrun the other guy. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 5:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] fillters A couple of big canister filters, each rated for about a 300G tank and then a 300G++ tank for the filters to go on to hold all of your fish. But if you are going to just keep the 125G and re-home some of your fish, then two canister filters, each rated for at least a 125G tank. When you want to keep BIG fish, you should double the amount of filtration on a tank to help with the waste and then when doing filter maintenance, you can alternate each filter every week so that one filter system stays fully cycled at all times. You should also be doing several 25% PWC's a week with the amount of bioload in your tank... unless they are all juvi fish and then you could do two a week to keep the hormone levels down so the fish do not get stunted as bad. You need to find out what kind of catfish you have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com References: Oscar - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html Keyhole Cichlid - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cleithracara%20_maronii.html Catfish - ??? Depends on which kind. Some stay very small, others grow over 100 pounds. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nice6669 Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 2:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fillters i have a a 125 gal tank with 4 oskars to jacs 2 key hole cickklid and bout 6 diferent catfish i whant to know what is the best filter i can buy 4 my tank No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1267 - Release Date: 2/8/2008 8:12 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25812	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

Put a few plecostomus catfish in there and you'll never see the snails again Snails are like pleco candy!    Gregg Bender Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25813	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: fillters

Just make sure your sponges are inside some kind of container with the input into the sponge filter coming from the top and the outflow going back out the top... so when you have to clean the filter and pick it up out of the tank, it won't release all of the detritus back into your tank. Do a Google search on DIY Aquarium Filter Systems and you'll find many more ideas. The "separate tank" is called a sump tank. Do a Google on those also and you'll find many more ideas. I was going to use an overflow box on my main tank going down into the sump tank and then my existing canister filter to pump the water back up to the main tank. By putting the intake to the canister only an inch or two under the water line of the sump tank, it would never be able to overflow the main tank in the even the overflow box lost it's siphon. This is the overflow box I was considering since it is rated for 300gph so it would be able to easily keep up with my canister filter. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=CR1511 There may be one flaw in my simple system that I haven't found an answer to. I may have to have the sump tank higher than the canister since it appears that canister filters rely on the water coming down into them to assist in "pushing" the water going back up into the tank. This is called "head pressure" and the pumps in most filter systems do not have much head pressure which is why folks use external pumps for setting up sump systems. On a side note... are you any relation to Gomer? ;-) Hopefully you are old enough to catch that one! And on a second side note, your little bear joke in your sig reminds me of a lesson I learned while taking scuba diving lessons a long time ago. While discussing the various uses of a knife while diving, one of my classmates asked about using it to stab a shark in the event of an attack and my instructor said the best use of your knife in a shark attack would be to stab your dive buddy and swim the other way. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 2:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] fillters Please don't take this as advise. More of a discussion question. Reason is I'm thinking about a 75 gal up to 125 gal tank. My filters I'm thinking about are eheim 2215's. Two of them for a 75. Or three of them for a 125. Now heres the real thinking. I read an article about using filtering the bottom of the tank with many returns at the bottom. Said it did good in helping the tank to stay clean. So... what about in a 75 gal taking two nice big sponge inputs at the bottom and outputting at the top. Then at the top with a input that could also serve as a skimmer, outputting at the several bottom outputs. Was wondering if a double sponge return with one sticking above the surface would work good as a surface skimmer? I also had a thought about a separate tank. Thinking about one of those high square ones as a filter tank. Have it heavily planted, heavily lighted, heavy gravel and earth. Then having siphon pipes back to the main tank. With a pump pumping from the main tank to the filter tank. Only problem is having a bubble switch shut off for the pump in case the level gets too high in the filter tank. Could even use this tank as a breeder tank for guppies? For food for some cichlids? Ron Pyle Sioux Falls, SD When being chased by a bear: You don't have to outrun the bear. You just have to outrun the other guy. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 5:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] fillters A couple of big canister filters, each rated for about a 300G tank and then a 300G++ tank for the filters to go on to hold all of your fish. But if you are going to just keep the 125G and re-home some of your fish, then two canister filters, each rated for at least a 125G tank. When you want to keep BIG fish, you should double the amount of filtration on a tank to help with the waste and then when doing filter maintenance, you can alternate each filter every week so that one filter system stays fully cycled at all times. You should also be doing several 25% PWC's a week with the amount of bioload in your tank... unless they are all juvi fish and then you could do two a week to keep the hormone levels down so the fish do not get stunted as bad. You need to find out what kind of catfish you have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com References: Oscar - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html Keyhole Cichlid - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cleithracara%20_maronii.html Catfish - ??? Depends on which kind. Some stay very small, others grow over 100 pounds. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nice6669 Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 2:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fillters i have a a 125 gal tank with 4 oskars to jacs 2 key hole cickklid and bout 6 diferent catfish i whant to know what is the best filter i can buy 4 my tank No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25814	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Newbie

Hi my name is Heather and this is my very first tank. I have had my fish for about 3 months now. I have two rather big tinfoils. 4 fancy tail danios (which were all supposed to be female) 3 of which are pregnant. 2 bright yellow, orange and black platys, 2 plecos, 1 beautiful male swordfish, and 1 tiny golden bottom feeder. They are all doing great but I do have a question about my 3 pregnant danios. I have a tall 20 gallon tank and three breeder baskets would take up alot of room. I have been told big plants where the babies could hide would keep them safe so really my main question is should I buy another 20 or even a 10 gallon tank to put them in? I dont kow how many baby fish they will each have but Im concerned that it may be too much for my 20 gallon and also that they may not make it in there without being eaten. Any advice would be wonderful. Thanx~ Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie

If you have four females, although they may be eggbound and lay eggs, they will not be fertilized so there is no need to worry. What kind of danios are they? Zebra Danio's are common but there are others as well. With only 20G to deal with, you would best let nature take it's course and let the other fish eat any eggs in the event you do have a male. If any survive, then you can work on handling the MTS (multiple tank syndrome) that I see you are thinking about already. ;-) You should also fill out the school to at least six danios. Schooling fish need to be kept in schools or they get stressed out which will lead to health issues. Here's a couple of good profiles on Zebra Danio's and other danios as well. They will explain how to sex your danios. http://fish.mongabay.com/danios.htm http://www.fishforever.co.uk/zebradanios.html http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/cyprinids/zebradanio.htm l The two pleco's need to be returned as they get far too large for a 20G Tall. Each common pleco needs at least 75G since they grow to over 18". Some stores do have a program where they will let you return the pleco's every six months for a new juvi and hopefully your store will do this. You do not need two of them for a 20G tank. A single pleco can easily handle a 20G tank but once again, it should not stay in a 20G for more than six months or it would start to suffer stunting. If you want to keep a pleco for long term, then you would need to get a dwarf species which are much more expensive than the common pleco's that you likely have right now. But even the dwarf's grow to around 6" so even that would be crowded in a 20G tall tank. While you are at Mongabay's site, you should look up the profiles on your other fish and you need to identify the "golden bottom feeder". Ask the store what it is that you bought. It's not good to buy fish that you do not know what they are as each species has different needs and you should know that they will be OK in your tank before you buy them. DO NOT TRUST THE STORES ADVICE UNTIL YOU HAVE LEARNED ENOUGH OUT HERE WITH US... and then you won't need there oftentimes bad advice. Here is the page on live bearers which should cover your platys and swordtail. http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm After you do all of that reading, go to my blog and click on my article "A to Z of fish keeping" and take one or both of the FREE online tutorials (listed near the top of that page) which will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. Come back out here and ask lots of questions that you should have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 10:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie Hi my name is Heather and this is my very first tank. I have had my fish for about 3 months now. I have two rather big tinfoils. 4 fancy tail danios (which were all supposed to be female) 3 of which are pregnant. 2 bright yellow, orange and black platys, 2 plecos, 1 beautiful male swordfish, and 1 tiny golden bottom feeder. They are all doing great but I do have a question about my 3 pregnant danios. I have a tall 20 gallon tank and three breeder baskets would take up alot of room. I have been told big plants where the babies could hide would keep them safe so really my main question is should I buy another 20 or even a 10 gallon tank to put them in? I dont kow how many baby fish they will each have but Im concerned that it may be too much for my 20 gallon and also that they may not make it in there without being eaten. Any advice would be wonderful. Thanx~ Heather No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25816	From: �H3ATH3R�	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie

They look just like zebra danios but with fancier tails..long and flowing is a good way to put it. Their stripes when they are just right in the light look blue. One of them is very fancy with very long and flowing fins and tail..beautiful..I think he may be a male although I chose them all from a tank at the fish guys house that was supposed to be all female. All four of them are still very little. I will get two more..I knew they were schooling fish (mike who is my fish guy did tell me that) that is why I chose 4 instead of two. Can I get any kind of danios when I choose the other two or do they need to be the same kind? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie If you have four females, although they may be eggbound and lay eggs, they will not be fertilized so there is no need to worry. What kind of danios are they?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25817	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie

OK. Typically, the males are the prettiest... just like most of the animal kingdom... except for us humans. LOL Danio's are not livebearers so the females will have bigger bellies in general as you would have seen in the pictures in those profiles but they can get a little bigger right before they are going to lay eggs. The male may or may not fertilize them. I had "normal" ZD's and the males are more golden in color and the females are more white. I'm not sure if the fancy tailed varieties keep these traits. When you get two more, get either females or no more than one more male. It's best to have at least two females for every male so the males do not chase a single female around too much when mating time comes along. Another lucky thing for males in the rest of the animal kingdom. LOL I'm not sure of any other danios that are similar in size or appearance to the zebra danio so I'm not sure if another species will school with them properly. You could get "normal" ZD's instead of the fancies and they should be OK but a normal male would be much faster than a fancy female and could harass her too much during the mating periods. It would be best to get only fancy males since you have fancy females. Tell Mike, your fish guy, that he should know better than to sell you any common pleco's for a 20G tank. Tell him I said so! Find out what your unknown fish is and work on filling out the schools of the fish you have, if needed. Remember to test your water daily for about two weeks after adding new fish and to do PWC's (partial water changes) whenever you get an ammonia or nitrite reading over 0.5ppm. When you reply in the future, try not to snip the thread like you did this time. It makes it harder for someone to remember everything that is going on in your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie They look just like zebra danios but with fancier tails..long and flowing is a good way to put it. Their stripes when they are just right in the light look blue. One of them is very fancy with very long and flowing fins and tail..beautiful..I think he may be a male although I chose them all from a tank at the fish guys house that was supposed to be all female. All four of them are still very little. I will get two more..I knew they were schooling fish (mike who is my fish guy did tell me that) that is why I chose 4 instead of two. Can I get any kind of danios when I choose the other two or do they need to be the same kind? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie If you have four females, although they may be eggbound and lay eggs, they will not be fertilized so there is no need to worry. What kind of danios are they? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 2/10/2008 12:21 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25818	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie

The email should not have been cut off at all its set to keep all of the email when I send. Who knows. I actually have two small plecos. Is that bad? Mike is much muich older and has been in the business/hobby of fish for 35 years and he has gorgeous very healthy fish but Im pretty sure he cannot hear well because he never really answers the questions I ask. Im very curious and ask ALOT of questions but have rarely gotten a satisfactory answer from him, half the time he doesnt even seem to hear me. So I do not get th answers I need. He didnt tell me that my male swordtail could mate with my female platys either, I found everything I needed to know or was curious about here on the net. My attempt since this was my first tank was to keep it small and get fish that were not going to make more fish..lol. Thanks Lenny for the info..its very helpful. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie OK. Typically, the males are the prettiest... just like most of the animal kingdom... except for us humans. LOL Danio's are not livebearers so the females will have bigger bellies in general as you would have seen in the pictures in those profiles but they can get a little bigger right before they are going to lay eggs. The male may or may not fertilize them. I had "normal" ZD's and the males are more golden in color and the females are more white. I'm not sure if the fancy tailed varieties keep these traits. When you get two more, get either females or no more than one more male. It's best to have at least two females for every male so the males do not chase a single female around too much when mating time comes along. Another lucky thing for males in the rest of the animal kingdom. LOL I'm not sure of any other danios that are similar in size or appearance to the zebra danio so I'm not sure if another species will school with them properly. You could get "normal" ZD's instead of the fancies and they should be OK but a normal male would be much faster than a fancy female and could harass her too much during the mating periods. It would be best to get only fancy males since you have fancy females. Tell Mike, your fish guy, that he should know better than to sell you any common pleco's for a 20G tank. Tell him I said so! Find out what your unknown fish is and work on filling out the schools of the fish you have, if needed. Remember to test your water daily for about two weeks after adding new fish and to do PWC's (partial water changes) whenever you get an ammonia or nitrite reading over 0.5ppm. When you reply in the future, try not to snip the thread like you did this time. It makes it harder for someone to remember everything that is going on in your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie They look just like zebra danios but with fancier tails..long and flowing is a good way to put it. Their stripes when they are just right in the light look blue. One of them is very fancy with very long and flowing fins and tail..beautiful..I think he may be a male although I chose them all from a tank at the fish guys house that was supposed to be all female. All four of them are still very little. I will get two more..I knew they were schooling fish (mike who is my fish guy did tell me that) that is why I chose 4 instead of two. Can I get any kind of danios when I choose the other two or do they need to be the same kind? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie If you have four females, although they may be eggbound and lay eggs, they will not be fertilized so there is no need to worry. What kind of danios are they? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 2/10/2008 12:21 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25819	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie

Like I said in my earlier reply, if the plecos are common plecos... which they likely are since commons are the most common... they need much larger homes... 75G each. They can do OK in your 20G tank for a short period of time but if you keep them more than six months, they will likely begin to get stunted which will affect their health and lifespan. They should live for nearly 20 years and get really BIG. I rescued a common pleco out of a 10G tank back in June 2005. He was only 4" long after two years in that tank. Fortunately, plecos grow a little each year for many years so after I moved him to my 65G, he grew to 10" in 18 months and then I had to rehome him in May 2007. I was planning a 150G tank but Hurricane Katrina hit back in 2005 and changed all of my tank plans. My largest tank is my 65G and my new place isn't big enough for a BIG tank. He now lives in a 200G tank with a few cichlids and is still growing but he may never grow to full size or live his full lifespan due to being in that undersized tank for those first two years. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie The email should not have been cut off at all its set to keep all of the email when I send. Who knows. I actually have two small plecos. Is that bad? Mike is much muich older and has been in the business/hobby of fish for 35 years and he has gorgeous very healthy fish but Im pretty sure he cannot hear well because he never really answers the questions I ask. Im very curious and ask ALOT of questions but have rarely gotten a satisfactory answer from him, half the time he doesnt even seem to hear me. So I do not get th answers I need. He didnt tell me that my male swordtail could mate with my female platys either, I found everything I needed to know or was curious about here on the net. My attempt since this was my first tank was to keep it small and get fish that were not going to make more fish..lol. Thanks Lenny for the info..its very helpful. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie OK. Typically, the males are the prettiest... just like most of the animal kingdom... except for us humans. LOL Danio's are not livebearers so the females will have bigger bellies in general as you would have seen in the pictures in those profiles but they can get a little bigger right before they are going to lay eggs. The male may or may not fertilize them. I had "normal" ZD's and the males are more golden in color and the females are more white. I'm not sure if the fancy tailed varieties keep these traits. When you get two more, get either females or no more than one more male. It's best to have at least two females for every male so the males do not chase a single female around too much when mating time comes along. Another lucky thing for males in the rest of the animal kingdom. LOL I'm not sure of any other danios that are similar in size or appearance to the zebra danio so I'm not sure if another species will school with them properly. You could get "normal" ZD's instead of the fancies and they should be OK but a normal male would be much faster than a fancy female and could harass her too much during the mating periods. It would be best to get only fancy males since you have fancy females. Tell Mike, your fish guy, that he should know better than to sell you any common pleco's for a 20G tank. Tell him I said so! Find out what your unknown fish is and work on filling out the schools of the fish you have, if needed. Remember to test your water daily for about two weeks after adding new fish and to do PWC's (partial water changes) whenever you get an ammonia or nitrite reading over 0.5ppm. When you reply in the future, try not to snip the thread like you did this time. It makes it harder for someone to remember everything that is going on in your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie They look just like zebra danios but with fancier tails..long and flowing is a good way to put it. Their stripes when they are just right in the light look blue. One of them is very fancy with very long and flowing fins and tail..beautiful..I think he may be a male although I chose them all from a tank at the fish guys house that was supposed to be all female. All four of them are still very little. I will get two more..I knew they were schooling fish (mike who is my fish guy did tell me that) that is why I chose 4 instead of two. Can I get any kind of danios when I choose the other two or do they need to be the same kind? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie If you have four females, although they may be eggbound and lay eggs, they will not be fertilized so there is no need to worry. What kind of danios are they? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 2/10/2008 12:21 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25820	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie

Yeah I had no idea. He called them clown plecos..they are a brownish color with black spots. They have gotten bigger. So have my tinfoils...they started out fairly small and have tripled in size in just a few months. Looks like I may need a bigger tank just for the fish I already have. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie Like I said in my earlier reply, if the plecos are common plecos... which they likely are since commons are the most common... they need much larger homes... 75G each. They can do OK in your 20G tank for a short period of time but if you keep them more than six months, they will likely begin to get stunted which will affect their health and lifespan. They should live for nearly 20 years and get really BIG. I rescued a common pleco out of a 10G tank back in June 2005. He was only 4" long after two years in that tank. Fortunately, plecos grow a little each year for many years so after I moved him to my 65G, he grew to 10" in 18 months and then I had to rehome him in May 2007. I was planning a 150G tank but Hurricane Katrina hit back in 2005 and changed all of my tank plans. My largest tank is my 65G and my new place isn't big enough for a BIG tank. He now lives in a 200G tank with a few cichlids and is still growing but he may never grow to full size or live his full lifespan due to being in that undersized tank for those first two years. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH [The entire original message is not included] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25821	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie

Well, Clown Pleco's are one of the dwarf species but your description sounds more like a common pleco. Here's two profiles on the Clown Pleco http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile80.html http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/catfish/clownplec.html so you can compare the photos of a Clown Pleco to yours. They do change quite a bit as they mature. Like most pleco's, they can be aggressive to conspecifics (the same species) which is another reason that you might only want to keep one of them if you indeed have clown pleco's. Yes, you will be needing a larger tank for the fish you already have... especially if you choose to keep both pleco's, whether they are commons or clowns. I noticed this email got snipped also. Are you posting via email or directly on the website? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie Yeah I had no idea. He called them clown plecos..they are a brownish color with black spots. They have gotten bigger. So have my tinfoils...they started out fairly small and have tripled in size in just a few months. Looks like I may need a bigger tank just for the fish I already have. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie Like I said in my earlier reply, if the plecos are common plecos... which they likely are since commons are the most common... they need much larger homes... 75G each. They can do OK in your 20G tank for a short period of time but if you keep them more than six months, they will likely begin to get stunted which will affect their health and lifespan. They should live for nearly 20 years and get really BIG. I rescued a common pleco out of a 10G tank back in June 2005. He was only 4" long after two years in that tank. Fortunately, plecos grow a little each year for many years so after I moved him to my 65G, he grew to 10" in 18 months and then I had to rehome him in May 2007. I was planning a 150G tank but Hurricane Katrina hit back in 2005 and changed all of my tank plans. My largest tank is my 65G and my new place isn't big enough for a BIG tank. He now lives in a 200G tank with a few cichlids and is still growing but he may never grow to full size or live his full lifespan due to being in that undersized tank for those first two years. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH [The entire original message is not included] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 2/10/2008 12:21 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25822	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: Betta feeding

Have a real quick question about feeding bettas. My betta resides in a 1.5gal tank on my desk at work. I typically feed him in the morning, around 8:00am and again around 5:00pm in the evening. While I work 2 out of 4 saturdays a month, there are 2 saturdays a month along with the occasional 3 or 4 day weekend. What is the best means of feeding him on those longer weekends and also, what is the best way to feed him on Sundays? Thanks -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25823	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie

They are definitely not clown plecos. Mine have spots not stripes. Ive been posting via email. I reset my options so maybe this time it will all come through. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie Well, Clown Pleco's are one of the dwarf species but your description sounds more like a common pleco. Here's two profiles on the Clown Pleco http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile80.html http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/catfish/clownplec.html so you can compare the photos of a Clown Pleco to yours. They do change quite a bit as they mature. Like most pleco's, they can be aggressive to conspecifics (the same species) which is another reason that you might only want to keep one of them if you indeed have clown pleco's. Yes, you will be needing a larger tank for the fish you already have... especially if you choose to keep both pleco's, whether they are commons or clowns. I noticed this email got snipped also. Are you posting via email or directly on the website? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie Yeah I had no idea. He called them clown plecos..they are a brownish color with black spots. They have gotten bigger. So have my tinfoils...they started out fairly small and have tripled in size in just a few months. Looks like I may need a bigger tank just for the fish I already have. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie Like I said in my earlier reply, if the plecos are common plecos... which they likely are since commons are the most common... they need much larger homes... 75G each. They can do OK in your 20G tank for a short period of time but if you keep them more than six months, they will likely begin to get stunted which will affect their health and lifespan. They should live for nearly 20 years and get really BIG. I rescued a common pleco out of a 10G tank back in June 2005. He was only 4" long after two years in that tank. Fortunately, plecos grow a little each year for many years so after I moved him to my 65G, he grew to 10" in 18 months and then I had to rehome him in May 2007. I was planning a 150G tank but Hurricane Katrina hit back in 2005 and changed all of my tank plans. My largest tank is my 65G and my new place isn't big enough for a BIG tank. He now lives in a 200G tank with a few cichlids and is still growing but he may never grow to full size or live his full lifespan due to being in that undersized tank for those first two years. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH [The entire original message is not included] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 2/10/2008 12:21 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25824	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: Re: Betta feeding

He can easily go a weekend without eating since you are feeding him regularly during the week. On a four day weekend, you would still be OK but if you don't want him to go that long without a bite to eat, then you could have a prepared amount of food set aside and have one of your co-workers drop it in. I would only have the co-worker feed him one time, maybe on the 3rd day of your four day weekend. Then he wouldn't eat the next day but then you would be back the day after so he would go two days without food and then get fed and then go one day without food. It would be a good idea to do a PWC before you go on these four day weekends. Do you have any live plants in the tank? Adding a few stalks of anacharis or other easy to grow plants would also give the Betta something to snack on if it gets really hungry... although they are carnivores, they'll nibble on plants if hungry. The live plants will also help with water quality issues in your small tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 7:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta feeding Have a real quick question about feeding bettas. My betta resides in a 1.5gal tank on my desk at work. I typically feed him in the morning, around 8:00am and again around 5:00pm in the evening. While I work 2 out of 4 saturdays a month, there are 2 saturdays a month along with the occasional 3 or 4 day weekend. What is the best means of feeding him on those longer weekends and also, what is the best way to feed him on Sundays? Thanks No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 2/10/2008 12:21 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25825	From: bmp	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie/Danios

Welcome to you Heather! I'm sure the members who have experience with danio spawns will be happy to help you. I have not had such experience so I'm sorry I don't have any advice to offer. But I don't think you can really call egglayers 'pregnant' since the eggs they carry are not yet fertilized by the males so there are no embryos developing. Best regards, Beverly --- ¤H3ATH3R¤ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > Hi my name is Heather and this is my very first > tank. I have had my fish for about 3 months now. I > have ... 4 fancy tail danios > (which were all supposed to be female) 3 of which > are pregnant. ...I do have a question about my 3 pregnant danios. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25826	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie/Betty

Hi and thanks for the welcome betty. -----Original Message----- From: bmp <bmpardue@...> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie/Danios Welcome to you Heather! I'm sure the members who have experience with danio spawns will be happy to help you. I have not had such experience so I'm sorry I don't have any advice to offer. But I don't think you can really call egglayers 'pregnant' since the eggs they carry are not yet fertilized by the males so there are no embryos developing. Best regards, Beverly --- ¤H3ATH3R¤ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > Hi my name is Heather and this is my very first > tank. I have had my fish for about 3 months now. I > have ... 4 fancy tail danios > (which were all supposed to be female) 3 of which > are pregnant. ...I do have a question about my 3 pregnant danios.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25827	From: runescapeboy07	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: little help

Well I'm about to get a tadpole a ordered in the mail a few weeks ago and I have some questions. 1.) Is there any particular care that my tadpole needs? 2.) Other than frozen cabbage(already am going to feed it that) what else to tadpoles like? 3.) How often should I clean its habitat?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2008
Subject: Re: little help

What kind of tadpole? A toad or frog and what species of toad or frog? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of runescapeboy07 Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] little help Well I'm about to get a tadpole a ordered in the mail a few weeks ago and I have some questions. 1.) Is there any particular care that my tadpole needs? 2.) Other than frozen cabbage(already am going to feed it that) what else to tadpoles like? 3.) How often should I clean its habitat? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 2/10/2008 12:21 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25829	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Re: little help

We recently went through the tadpole craze with the kids. Ours were a mixture of wild Georgia Peepers and generic toads. Okay, I'm sure they aren't "generic" but I don't know what they are other than a plain old toad. LOL We randomly fed ours things like lettuce, sliced zuchinni, quick 1min rolled oats (Quaker oatmeal stuff), and of course some of the tadpole and frog food from the petstore. Once ours changed to frogs we let them go. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "runescapeboy07" <runescapeboy07@...> wrote: > > Well I'm about to get a tadpole a ordered in the mail a few weeks ago > and I have some questions. > > 1.) Is there any particular care that my tadpole needs? > 2.) Other than frozen cabbage(already am going to feed it that) what > else to tadpoles like? > 3.) How often should I clean its habitat? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25830	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Re: "Mini" reef ?

David, There must be something in the water because I picked up a used 24gal Nano-cube yesterday with the thoughts of starting a small salt tank. I'm starting to do the reading and research now. I would like to do a mini reef, but it could easily become a "Nemo and Dori" tank for the kids enjoyment, but I hope not. ;-) I can't help much at this point, but here's what I know already. I picked it up because it was used, a pretty good price, and very local to me. If I had to buy a new one, not sure if I would actually go this route. My initial impression is it looks nice, but cleaning the foam filter looks like it will be a bit of a mess because it fits very tightly into the very back compartment. It doesn't have any kind of skimmer and doesn't have much room to add one. There is a "skimmer" comb looking thing you can attach to the intake and it's supposed to help remove skum from the top of the water by making the topmost water fall into the filter chamber. Seems like it would help, but it's still not really a skimmer. I'm guessing that as long as it's not over populated maybe the skimmer isn't as important. My jury is still out on that one. The lid doesn't seem to come off very easily and when I take it off, I have the fear of breaking the plastic connectors, but hasn't happened yet, but I can see it as a potential problem. On the plus side, it looks very nice, the two ventilation fans run very quite, and it puts out a good deal of light but would never be considered overly bright. That's all I've got so far. Hope something there helps. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Davis <davisplumeria@...> wrote: > > Hello all, > > I have no experience with salt water aquariums! > > Recently I saw a 29 G. "mini reef tank" . The so called Nano Cube or Bio Cube that come with lights and filter. Sounds simple and easy enough for a beginner :)) > > I am sure some of you have experience with this system. I'd like to hear from you the pro and con of these mini reef tanks before I get myself into ..big trouble :)) > > Thank you. > > David / Texas > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25832	From: Becky	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: New here

I have only been in the aquarium hobby since mid December. I have so many questions about what to do to improve my tank to make it a healthy, heavily planted natural environment for my fishies. I have had a planted 28 gallon tank up and running since mid December. I have the following fish 2 dwarf gourami 5 neon tetra 1 leopard pleco 1 albino red-fin shark 1 female swordtail 2 black molly (one is the only survivor of the other's batch of fry_ 1 dalmation molly 1 red-wag platy Pond snails have overtaken my tank and a few of my plants look hideous. As best I can remember these are the plants in my tank: Wisteria- still looking great Amazon Sword - looks good Ludwigia- the snails favorite, or so it seems, looks hideous!!! Micro Sword - looks healthy, but keeps thining out. I thought it was supposed to spread. Frill- looks good Aqua Fern- looks good (same as when I bought it, a few areas are brown) and two others I don't know the name of, one is a lighter green fern and the other has a round leaf but I can't place the name but most of it has died, from root rot I assume. Only one sprig of it is left. How often should I leave the light on, how important is the type of light. I am using what came with my aquarium. This is what the fluorescent bulb has printed on it : Eclipse Natural Daylight F15T8 18" CE (Hg) 47A Does anyone have any recommendations for other types of plants that are hardy and good for a beginner like myself. I seem to uproot a few plants each time I use my gravel vac, is this common? any tips. I have a gravel substrate and recently added a thin layer of sand. I doubt it will remain as the top layer of my substrate for very long. Really any and all advice is welcome. I would love my tank to be heavily planted and as natural looking as possible. I also have a peice of drift wood, a fake rock cave and one air stone under the gravel bubbling up through the drift wood. I recently read the airstone is not good for the co2 in a planted tank. Any opinions on this? To see pics of my tank go to the link below: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm? fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=138180262&albumId=1372232 Thank you everyone. Becky

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25833	From: Blue fish	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C434C58524043425A445146445A515F4C ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C434C58524043425A445146445A515F4C Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C434C58524043425A445146445A515F48 Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25834	From: Dan	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Conversion time...

Hello everyone, I have been out of the loop for awhile but have always gotten some great advise and feedback from this forum and hope for the same in my most recent adventure into a salt water tank, It will be a non reef system to hold a shark in a 135 gallon which I currently have set up double sided with holes in the bottom for drainage and return. under my tank in the stand rests the 60 gallon sump (overkill I know but I love the extra space it provides when necessary) I call it the penalty box! I have been told a protien skimmer and salt is all I need to convert, I plan on trying a damsel or 2 before I spend any serious money on a shark or Lion fish but my question is in regard to the size of protein skimmer needed for my set-up? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, my local fish stores are giving me conflicting info. Thanks in advance for any input- Dan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25835	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Re: Conversion time...

Dan , I recomend ASM skimmers, in my openion they are the best out there. Allways buy a skimmer bigger than what it's rated for. The fish you are planing to buy produce alot of waste and a good skimmer is vital. You could build you a refugium in part of your sump. I build refuiums out of 55 gallon tanks all the time. Contact me if you would like the plans and I'll send them to you e-mail. I will be gone this weekend, going to the Pet expo in CA. Hope this helps! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:34 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Conversion time... Hello everyone, I have been out of the loop for awhile but have always gotten some great advise and feedback from this forum and hope for the same in my most recent adventure into a salt water tank, It will be a non reef system to hold a shark in a 135 gallon which I currently have set up double sided with holes in the bottom for drainage and return. under my tank in the stand rests the 60 gallon sump (overkill I know but I love the extra space it provides when necessary) I call it the penalty box! I have been told a protien skimmer and salt is all I need to convert, I plan on trying a damsel or 2 before I spend any serious money on a shark or Lion fish but my question is in regard to the size of protein skimmer needed for my set-up? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, my local fish stores are giving me conflicting info. Thanks in advance for any input- Dan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: 1/13/2008 8:23 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25836	From: Kelly	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: There is yucky stuff in my tank

I am still doing the fishless cycle on my 55 gallon tank. I set it up last week and today I noticed that there is white stuff growing on my plants, decorations and on the bottom of the tank. It looks like a cloud...is this normal? What is it? I put some pictures in the photo section under "Kelly's Tank" so you can see exactly what I am talking about.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25837	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank

It looks like it could be some kind of mold. Are you using the plain ammonia to fishless cycle or are you using fish food or other food to create the ammonia? I know with the fish food or shrimp method, it is usually recommended to put the food in some kind of mesh bag so it can be removed when it starts to get moldy and doesn't disintegrate into the tank. If you are just running the tank without adding a source of ammonia, then that is NOT fishless cycling a tank. I have seen an empty tank just running for several weeks start to grow a mold but I haven't seen a fishless cycle where you are bringing the ammonia up to 4-5ppm develop mold so give us more info. If you are using the plain ammonia, make sure it doesn't have any kinds of surfactants, scents, etc., in it... just plain 10% ammonium hydroxide and water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] There is yucky stuff in my tank I am still doing the fishless cycle on my 55 gallon tank. I set it up last week and today I noticed that there is white stuff growing on my plants, decorations and on the bottom of the tank. It looks like a cloud...is this normal? What is it? I put some pictures in the photo section under "Kelly's Tank" so you can see exactly what I am talking about. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25838	From: Kelly	Date: 2/12/2008
Subject: Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank

Well, I never read anything on putting ammonia in the tank. Oops...lol I thought I was just supposed to put the water in the tank and leave it for a few weeks. I put in the chemical from the pet store that they said would speed up the cycling process. Do I need to change the water in the tank and start over? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It looks like it could be some kind of mold. > > Are you using the plain ammonia to fishless cycle or are you using fish food > or other food to create the ammonia? > > I know with the fish food or shrimp method, it is usually recommended to put > the food in some kind of mesh bag so it can be removed when it starts to get > moldy and doesn't disintegrate into the tank. > > If you are just running the tank without adding a source of ammonia, then > that is NOT fishless cycling a tank. I have seen an empty tank just running > for several weeks start to grow a mold but I haven't seen a fishless cycle > where you are bringing the ammonia up to 4-5ppm develop mold so give us more > info. > > If you are using the plain ammonia, make sure it doesn't have any kinds of > surfactants, scents, etc., in it... just plain 10% ammonium hydroxide and > water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kelly > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] There is yucky stuff in my tank > > I am still doing the fishless cycle on my 55 gallon tank. I set it up last > week and today I noticed that there is white stuff growing on my plants, > decorations and on the bottom of the tank. It looks like a cloud...is this > normal? What is it? I put some pictures in the photo section under "Kelly's > Tank" so you can see exactly what I am talking about. > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 > 3:20 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25839	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank

Another case of HORRIBLE advice from a pet store employee. Luckily you found this group! :-D Do you know what the "chemical" was that they sold you? The ONLY bacteria-in-a-bottle that works as advertised for cycling a tank is a product called Bio-Spira which is processed, shipped and kept refrigerated so most stores do not sell it... but they should! Remember this lesson... in most cases, there is not a chemical fix for things that are not going right for your fish or tank. There are "natural" solutions and of course, frequent 25% PWC's (partial water changes) that are good for your fish and tank but stay away from chemicals unless you get the advice from known experienced fish keepers... the key word is keepers, not sellers. Most stores only experience is with getting in baby fish and barely keeping them alive long enough to sell them. They don't have the long term experience of keeping the same fish alive for 5, 10, 15, 20+ years.... yes, many fish live for 20+ years, usually the larger specimens like goldfish, pleco's, etc.,... if they have the proper sized tank. Here are a few articles on Fishless Cycling using plain ammonia.. http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15 http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml And it would be a good idea to go to my blog (http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com), then to the page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and take one or both of the online tutorials that I have linked to near the top of that page. This would give you a good foundation of information on the long term keeping of fish. I would probably do a complete water change and take out the decorations that are most covered in the "mold" and wash them off. I think you basically have a case of stagnant water mixed with whatever that "chemical" was that they sold you. Vacuum (siphon) your gravel well to get out as much of that "stuff" as possible. It's probably not harmful and will likely die off once you get your tank's ecology going properly with a proper fishless cycle. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank Well, I never read anything on putting ammonia in the tank. Oops...lol I thought I was just supposed to put the water in the tank and leave it for a few weeks. I put in the chemical from the pet store that they said would speed up the cycling process. Do I need to change the water in the tank and start over? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It looks like it could be some kind of mold. > > Are you using the plain ammonia to fishless cycle or are you using fish food > or other food to create the ammonia? > > I know with the fish food or shrimp method, it is usually recommended to put > the food in some kind of mesh bag so it can be removed when it starts to get > moldy and doesn't disintegrate into the tank. > > If you are just running the tank without adding a source of ammonia, then > that is NOT fishless cycling a tank. I have seen an empty tank just running > for several weeks start to grow a mold but I haven't seen a fishless cycle > where you are bringing the ammonia up to 4-5ppm develop mold so give us more > info. > > If you are using the plain ammonia, make sure it doesn't have any kinds of > surfactants, scents, etc., in it... just plain 10% ammonium hydroxide and > water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Kelly > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] There is yucky stuff in my tank > > I am still doing the fishless cycle on my 55 gallon tank. I set it up last > week and today I noticed that there is white stuff growing on my > plants, decorations and on the bottom of the tank. It looks like a cloud...is this > normal? What is it? I put some pictures in the photo section under "Kelly's > Tank" so you can see exactly what I am talking about. > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25840	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Shelties vs. Border Collies

Whew, got a little behind there but I'm back. I haven't have a ton of experience with BC. We have an excellent Sheltie rescue here and when I have room again I'll be paying them a visit. I volunteer with the NW Rex Rescue. They rescue Devon Rex, Cornish Rex and Sphynx. Recue is so rewarding Kate Robert Mazur <rpmazur@...> wrote: Gregg: I tend to be a little biased towards Shelties as that is all we've had. My Mom still has 3 Shelties, 2blue merle and a bi-black. I've been to shows with my Mom and Dad (when he was alive and showing) and seen BCs. I am sure if we would have gotten a BC instead of a Sheltie, we'd still have them. Both animals are adorable and have a wonderful personality. Kudos for you in being involved with rescue efforts. Rob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25841	From: Kelly	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank

Ok, I put Ammo Lock 2 in it....obviously a stupid thing to do seeing as how there was no ammonia in the tank to get rid of...lol. The thing that the pet store told me to put in is called TLC for Freshwater Aquariums. It says it eliminates toxic NH3 and NO2, cycles the aquarium in 3 to 7 days rapidly yet safely, improves water quality, safe for all fish, vertebrates and aquatic plants. I have to say that I am VERY irritated with this whole process, I am thinking about just selling my tank. It wouldn't be so bad if the pet store had given me REAL advice. But if I am having this many problems before I get any fish in it, what will it be like when I do have fish??? Just venting...thanks for listening! -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Another case of HORRIBLE advice from a pet store employee. Luckily you > found this group! :-D > > Do you know what the "chemical" was that they sold you? The ONLY > bacteria-in-a-bottle that works as advertised for cycling a tank is a > product called Bio-Spira which is processed, shipped and kept refrigerated > so most stores do not sell it... but they should! > > Remember this lesson... in most cases, there is not a chemical fix for > things that are not going right for your fish or tank. There are "natural" > solutions and of course, frequent 25% PWC's (partial water changes) that are > good for your fish and tank but stay away from chemicals unless you get the > advice from known experienced fish keepers... the key word is keepers, not > sellers. > > Most stores only experience is with getting in baby fish and barely keeping > them alive long enough to sell them. They don't have the long term > experience of keeping the same fish alive for 5, 10, 15, 20+ years.... yes, > many fish live for 20+ years, usually the larger specimens like goldfish, > pleco's, etc.,... if they have the proper sized tank. > > Here are a few articles on Fishless Cycling using plain ammonia.. > http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15 > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml > > And it would be a good idea to go to my blog > (http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com), then to the page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" > and take one or both of the online tutorials that I have linked to near the > top of that page. This would give you a good foundation of information on > the long term keeping of fish. > > I would probably do a complete water change and take out the decorations > that are most covered in the "mold" and wash them off. I think you > basically have a case of stagnant water mixed with whatever that "chemical" > was that they sold you. Vacuum (siphon) your gravel well to get out as much > of that "stuff" as possible. It's probably not harmful and will likely die > off once you get your tank's ecology going properly with a proper fishless > cycle. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kelly > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank > > Well, I never read anything on putting ammonia in the tank. > Oops...lol I thought I was just supposed to put the water in the tank and > leave it for a few weeks. I put in the chemical from the pet store that they > said would speed up the cycling process. Do I need to change the water in > the tank and start over? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > It looks like it could be some kind of mold. > > > > Are you using the plain ammonia to fishless cycle or are you using > fish food > > or other food to create the ammonia? > > > > I know with the fish food or shrimp method, it is usually > recommended to put > > the food in some kind of mesh bag so it can be removed when it > starts to get > > moldy and doesn't disintegrate into the tank. > > > > If you are just running the tank without adding a source of ammonia, > then > > that is NOT fishless cycling a tank. I have seen an empty tank just > running > > for several weeks start to grow a mold but I haven't seen a fishless > cycle > > where you are bringing the ammonia up to 4-5ppm develop mold so give > us more > > info. > > > > If you are using the plain ammonia, make sure it doesn't have any > kinds of > > surfactants, scents, etc., in it... just plain 10% ammonium > hydroxide and > > water. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Kelly > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] There is yucky stuff in my tank > > > > I am still doing the fishless cycle on my 55 gallon tank. I set it > up last > > week and today I noticed that there is white stuff growing on my > > plants, decorations and on the bottom of the tank. It looks like a > cloud...is this > > normal? What is it? I put some pictures in the photo section under > "Kelly's > > Tank" so you can see exactly what I am talking about. > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 > 3:20 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25842	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

Wait, Plecos eat snails? When the terrible day happened, and I lost all the fish and shrimp, the snails went nuts! They ate pretty much my whole Rotala and did a number on the Nymphaea. What about the Bushy nose? Or are there any other Plecos that stay small? Kate Gregg Bender <greggb57@...> wrote: Put a few plecostomus catfish in there and you'll never see the snails again Snails are like pleco candy!    Gregg Bender Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25843	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Brown Algae

Hi. I am new to the group. My name is Jimmy. In November I set up a 90 gal tank with a Fluval 405 filter. After a period of cycling I gradually added a verity of gouramis. It now contain 16 gouramis and 2 Giant Bronkus catfish. The largest of the gouramis is about 3 inches with most being about 2 inches. The ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and the nitrates are 10 ppm. The phosphate is about 1 ppm. All plants are artificial. The aquarium does not get any direct sunlight. The light is left on from 4 to 5 hours per day. Within the last month I have begun to see a brown algae on some of the decorations and plants. I change 25 to 30% of the water every 2 weeks and attempt to remove as mush of the algae as possible with gravel vacuuming. The water is clear. My question is will the algae continue to spread? Would a UV Sterilizer be advised? Although it is not a big problem now if it continues to spread it will be. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25844	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank

Yep.... all you needed was a 99 cent bottle of plain ammonia and you would have been well on your way to having your tank completely cycled by now. It's pathetic that these stores won't give people accurate information.. either because they are ignorant or they are doing it on purpose. Actually, the chemistry and biology parts and the nitrogen cycle are the hardest part of fish keeping but it's like riding a bike, once you catch on, it's a piece of cake. At least you are learning these things without experimenting on fish like so many unsuspecting folks end up doing when they buy fish first and then have to do all the chemistry stuff while their fish are suffering. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank Ok, I put Ammo Lock 2 in it....obviously a stupid thing to do seeing as how there was no ammonia in the tank to get rid of...lol. The thing that the pet store told me to put in is called TLC for Freshwater Aquariums. It says it eliminates toxic NH3 and NO2, cycles the aquarium in 3 to 7 days rapidly yet safely, improves water quality, safe for all fish, vertebrates and aquatic plants. I have to say that I am VERY irritated with this whole process, I am thinking about just selling my tank. It wouldn't be so bad if the pet store had given me REAL advice. But if I am having this many problems before I get any fish in it, what will it be like when I do have fish??? Just venting...thanks for listening! -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Another case of HORRIBLE advice from a pet store employee. Luckily you > found this group! :-D > > Do you know what the "chemical" was that they sold you? The ONLY > bacteria-in-a-bottle that works as advertised for cycling a tank is a > product called Bio-Spira which is processed, shipped and kept refrigerated > so most stores do not sell it... but they should! > > Remember this lesson... in most cases, there is not a chemical fix for > things that are not going right for your fish or tank. There are "natural" > solutions and of course, frequent 25% PWC's (partial water changes) that are > good for your fish and tank but stay away from chemicals unless you get the > advice from known experienced fish keepers... the key word is keepers, not > sellers. > > Most stores only experience is with getting in baby fish and barely keeping > them alive long enough to sell them. They don't have the long term > experience of keeping the same fish alive for 5, 10, 15, 20+ years.... yes, > many fish live for 20+ years, usually the larger specimens like goldfish, > pleco's, etc.,... if they have the proper sized tank. > > Here are a few articles on Fishless Cycling using plain ammonia.. > http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15 > <http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15> > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html > <http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html> > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml> > > And it would be a good idea to go to my blog > (http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ), then > to the page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" > and take one or both of the online tutorials that I have linked to near the > top of that page. This would give you a good foundation of information on > the long term keeping of fish. > > I would probably do a complete water change and take out the > decorations that are most covered in the "mold" and wash them off. I > think you basically have a case of stagnant water mixed with whatever > that "chemical" > was that they sold you. Vacuum (siphon) your gravel well to get out as much > of that "stuff" as possible. It's probably not harmful and will likely die > off once you get your tank's ecology going properly with a proper fishless > cycle. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Kelly > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: There is yucky stuff in my tank > > Well, I never read anything on putting ammonia in the tank. > Oops...lol I thought I was just supposed to put the water in the tank and > leave it for a few weeks. I put in the chemical from the pet store that they > said would speed up the cycling process. Do I need to change the water in > the tank and start over? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > It looks like it could be some kind of mold. > > > > Are you using the plain ammonia to fishless cycle or are you using > fish food > > or other food to create the ammonia? > > > > I know with the fish food or shrimp method, it is usually > recommended to put > > the food in some kind of mesh bag so it can be removed when it > starts to get > > moldy and doesn't disintegrate into the tank. > > > > If you are just running the tank without adding a source of ammonia, > then > > that is NOT fishless cycling a tank. I have seen an empty tank just > running > > for several weeks start to grow a mold but I haven't seen a fishless > cycle > > where you are bringing the ammonia up to 4-5ppm develop mold so give > us more > > info. > > > > If you are using the plain ammonia, make sure it doesn't have any > kinds of > > surfactants, scents, etc., in it... just plain 10% ammonium > hydroxide and > > water. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Kelly > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] There is yucky stuff in my tank > > > > I am still doing the fishless cycle on my 55 gallon tank. I set it > up last > > week and today I noticed that there is white stuff growing on my > > plants, decorations and on the bottom of the tank. It looks like a > cloud...is this > > normal? What is it? I put some pictures in the photo section under > "Kelly's > > Tank" so you can see exactly what I am talking about. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25845	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

Common pleco's are omnivores so they'll eat pretty much anything if they are hungry. I've never seen one eat a snail before but I guess anything is possible. I had my common pleco in with a couple of golden mystery snails and although he would occasionally suck on their shells to get any algae off of them, he never did harm the snails. Of course, I kept my guy well fed with algae thins and fresh veggies so he wouldn't go after his tank mates. Some people put a pleco in a tank and think they can survive on algae and leftover scraps and this is when you hear about the pleco grabbing hold of a slow moving fish. Also, it's never a good idea to advise putting a pleco in any tank without knowing the tank size. Common pleco's grow to 18"+ and need a 75G 6' tank as a minimum. They can do OK for a couple of years in a 55G 4' tank but they will even get stunted in that sized tank if kept there too long. Another fish I often see advised for snails are a clown loach but clown loaches also get BIG and should be in shoals of five or more so they should only be kept in BIG (125G+) tanks as well. Other loaches stay smaller but aren't as good of snail eaters and they also need to be kept in shoals so they are not a good recommendation to prevent snails.. unless you like loaches and have a large enough tank. A BN Pleco does stay smaller, under 6", but it's not a snail eater as far as I know... but fish don't often read the same things we read. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Fleas Wait, Plecos eat snails? When the terrible day happened, and I lost all the fish and shrimp, the snails went nuts! They ate pretty much my whole Rotala and did a number on the Nymphaea. What about the Bushy nose? Or are there any other Plecos that stay small? Kate Gregg Bender <greggb57@... <mailto:greggb57%40gmail.com> > wrote: Put a few plecostomus catfish in there and you'll never see the snails again Snails are like pleco candy!    Gregg Bender Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. www.nvsr.org No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25846	From: Sigbackoffice	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Newbie

Hello all, I am new to this group as well as to saltwater fishkeeping; I have been keeping freshwater fish for years. I setup a saltwater tank over a year ago and it has really not had anything in it except for live sand and rock, a chocolate chip star fish, 1 turbo snail, and 1 herbit. I have been a little afraid to put anything in it for fear of killing it, I take my water to my local fish store on a regular basis to have it tested and it always tests good. I have recently added a rabbitfish and a Fu manChu lionfish, and now I am wanting to set up a refugium but do not have the slighest idea how to even begin to go about it. Any help I can get in here will be great, thanks in advance. Tiffany

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25847	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

You have several issues. If your tank is only a month old, brown algae is common due to the excess silicates that leach from many things in a new aquarium... including the silicone. The brown algae (diatoms) will utilize these excess silicates as the rest of the tanks ecology gets established. Just brush the diatoms off the glass and plants and vacuum it up like you are doing. It's harmless as far as I know. You are leaving the lights on too little. Your tank should mimic Mother Nature and at most have light for only 12 hours a day but usually 8-10 hours is good. Why are you leaving them on for only 4-5 hours a day? That's not giving your fish much "daylight" and could possibly lead to stress and health issues. This will also help establish the rest of the "natural" biology in your tank. You are also on the verge of being way overstocked (or you may already be way overstocked) unless all of your gouramis are the dwarf varieties. Most non-dwarf gouramies should grow to 6" each. Neither me nor Google has heard of a "Giant Bronkus catfish" so I have no clue how large they are supposed to get but judging from the name, your tank isn't big enough for them either. Overstocking your tank or having BIG fish in an undersized tank will lead to high hormone levels which will cause stress and health issues to your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Hi. I am new to the group. My name is Jimmy. In November I set up a 90 gal tank with a Fluval 405 filter. After a period of cycling I gradually added a verity of gouramis. It now contain 16 gouramis and 2 Giant Bronkus catfish. The largest of the gouramis is about 3 inches with most being about 2 inches. The ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and the nitrates are 10 ppm. The phosphate is about 1 ppm. All plants are artificial. The aquarium does not get any direct sunlight. The light is left on from 4 to 5 hours per day. Within the last month I have begun to see a brown algae on some of the decorations and plants. I change 25 to 30% of the water every 2 weeks and attempt to remove as mush of the algae as possible with gravel vacuuming. The water is clear. My question is will the algae continue to spread? Would a UV Sterilizer be advised? Although it is not a big problem now if it continues to spread it will be. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25848	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

I just assumed Jimmy meant Brochis Cats... If so, max size is 3.5". I've seen them sold as giant corys... Carmen > Neither me nor Google has heard > of a "Giant Bronkus catfish" so I have no clue how large they are supposed > to get

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25849	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Lenny, I thought, when I read that part about the "Bronkus catfish" he meant _Brochis_, some of which can grow 4-6". \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae You have several issues. If your tank is only a month old, brown algae is common due to the excess silicates that leach from many things in a new aquarium... including the silicone. The brown algae (diatoms) will utilize these excess silicates as the rest of the tanks ecology gets established. Just brush the diatoms off the glass and plants and vacuum it up like you are doing. It's harmless as far as I know. You are leaving the lights on too little. Your tank should mimic Mother Nature and at most have light for only 12 hours a day but usually 8-10 hours is good. Why are you leaving them on for only 4-5 hours a day? That's not giving your fish much "daylight" and could possibly lead to stress and health issues. This will also help establish the rest of the "natural" biology in your tank. You are also on the verge of being way overstocked (or you may already be way overstocked) unless all of your gouramis are the dwarf varieties. Most non-dwarf gouramies should grow to 6" each. Neither me nor Google has heard of a "Giant Bronkus catfish" so I have no clue how large they are supposed to get but judging from the name, your tank isn't big enough for them either. Overstocking your tank or having BIG fish in an undersized tank will lead to high hormone levels which will cause stress and health issues to your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Hi. I am new to the group. My name is Jimmy. In November I set up a 90 gal tank with a Fluval 405 filter. After a period of cycling I gradually added a verity of gouramis. It now contain 16 gouramis and 2 Giant Bronkus catfish. The largest of the gouramis is about 3 inches with most being about 2 inches. The ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and the nitrates are 10 ppm. The phosphate is about 1 ppm. All plants are artificial. The aquarium does not get any direct sunlight. The light is left on from 4 to 5 hours per day. Within the last month I have begun to see a brown algae on some of the decorations and plants. I change 25 to 30% of the water every 2 weeks and attempt to remove as mush of the algae as possible with gravel vacuuming. The water is clear. My question is will the algae continue to spread? Would a UV Sterilizer be advised? Although it is not a big problem now if it continues to spread it will be.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25850	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

4-6"? Doesn't sound like much of a "giant". LOL I see that the brochis splendens is referred to as a "Giant Cory" or "Emerald Catfish" so at least they would be fine in the 90G but I'm still worried about 16 gouramis. I didn't realize you spelled it correctly and I Googled broNchis but Google suggested brochis as the correct spelling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Lenny, I thought, when I read that part about the "Bronkus catfish" he meant _Brochis_, some of which can grow 4-6". \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae You have several issues. If your tank is only a month old, brown algae is common due to the excess silicates that leach from many things in a new aquarium... including the silicone. The brown algae (diatoms) will utilize these excess silicates as the rest of the tanks ecology gets established. Just brush the diatoms off the glass and plants and vacuum it up like you are doing. It's harmless as far as I know. You are leaving the lights on too little. Your tank should mimic Mother Nature and at most have light for only 12 hours a day but usually 8-10 hours is good. Why are you leaving them on for only 4-5 hours a day? That's not giving your fish much "daylight" and could possibly lead to stress and health issues. This will also help establish the rest of the "natural" biology in your tank. You are also on the verge of being way overstocked (or you may already be way overstocked) unless all of your gouramis are the dwarf varieties. Most non-dwarf gouramies should grow to 6" each. Neither me nor Google has heard of a "Giant Bronkus catfish" so I have no clue how large they are supposed to get but judging from the name, your tank isn't big enough for them either. Overstocking your tank or having BIG fish in an undersized tank will lead to high hormone levels which will cause stress and health issues to your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Hi. I am new to the group. My name is Jimmy. In November I set up a 90 gal tank with a Fluval 405 filter. After a period of cycling I gradually added a verity of gouramis. It now contain 16 gouramis and 2 Giant Bronkus catfish. The largest of the gouramis is about 3 inches with most being about 2 inches. The ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and the nitrates are 10 ppm. The phosphate is about 1 ppm. All plants are artificial. The aquarium does not get any direct sunlight. The light is left on from 4 to 5 hours per day. Within the last month I have begun to see a brown algae on some of the decorations and plants. I change 25 to 30% of the water every 2 weeks and attempt to remove as mush of the algae as possible with gravel vacuuming. The water is clear. My question is will the algae continue to spread? Would a UV Sterilizer be advised? Although it is not a big problem now if it continues to spread it will be. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25851	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Thanks Lenny. I'll put the lights on a timer. I was leaving them on only when I was at home. Sorry I misspelled the catfish name. It should have been Giant Brochis (Brochis britskii). It is reported up to 5 in. but usually smaller. Mine are about 2 in. currently. They are not Corydoras, but similar. As for the brown algae I'll continue to treat it as I am by cleaning and vacuuming with partial water changes. Maybe it will clear up with more light and time. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae You have several issues. If your tank is only a month old, brown algae is common due to the excess silicates that leach from many things in a new aquarium... including the silicone. The brown algae (diatoms) will utilize these excess silicates as the rest of the tanks ecology gets established. Just brush the diatoms off the glass and plants and vacuum it up like you are doing. It's harmless as far as I know. You are leaving the lights on too little. Your tank should mimic Mother Nature and at most have light for only 12 hours a day but usually 8-10 hours is good. Why are you leaving them on for only 4-5 hours a day? That's not giving your fish much "daylight" and could possibly lead to stress and health issues. This will also help establish the rest of the "natural" biology in your tank. You are also on the verge of being way overstocked (or you may already be way overstocked) unless all of your gouramis are the dwarf varieties. Most non-dwarf gouramies should grow to 6" each. Neither me nor Google has heard of a "Giant Bronkus catfish" so I have no clue how large they are supposed to get but judging from the name, your tank isn't big enough for them either. Overstocking your tank or having BIG fish in an undersized tank will lead to high hormone levels which will cause stress and health issues to your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Hi. I am new to the group. My name is Jimmy. In November I set up a 90 gal tank with a Fluval 405 filter. After a period of cycling I gradually added a verity of gouramis. It now contain 16 gouramis and 2 Giant Bronkus catfish. The largest of the gouramis is about 3 inches with most being about 2 inches. The ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and the nitrates are 10 ppm. The phosphate is about 1 ppm. All plants are artificial. The aquarium does not get any direct sunlight. The light is left on from 4 to 5 hours per day. Within the last month I have begun to see a brown algae on some of the decorations and plants. I change 25 to 30% of the water every 2 weeks and attempt to remove as mush of the algae as possible with gravel vacuuming. The water is clear. My question is will the algae continue to spread? Would a UV Sterilizer be advised? Although it is not a big problem now if it continues to spread it will be. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25852	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Lenny, I just took a look on fishbase.org, and I don't see the _Brochis_ I was thinking of listed there--they only had 4, so I wonder if it has been renamed and taken out of the genus. I don't have the time to search on synonyms tonight. A friend of mine, many years ago, brought in a bunch of these fish, and they arrived nearly frozen--well, pretty cold anyhow. I was there the day she received them, though later in the day, and everyone of them survived. Though little buggers. They were about 4" long then, and they grew larger, though I am not sure what their final length was. She also had a 24" pleco type fish living in a 150 or 200 gallon tank along with a few other fish. I still see here from time to time, but, unfortunately, she is not really keeping much in the way of fish right now. But, back in the day, she had an enviable fishroom, and the fish to match. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae 4-6"? Doesn't sound like much of a "giant". LOL I see that the brochis splendens is referred to as a "Giant Cory" or "Emerald Catfish" so at least they would be fine in the 90G but I'm still worried about 16 gouramis. I didn't realize you spelled it correctly and I Googled broNchis but Google suggested brochis as the correct spelling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Lenny, I thought, when I read that part about the "Bronkus catfish" he meant _Brochis_, some of which can grow 4-6". \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae You have several issues. If your tank is only a month old, brown algae is common due to the excess silicates that leach from many things in a new aquarium... including the silicone. The brown algae (diatoms) will utilize these excess silicates as the rest of the tanks ecology gets established. Just brush the diatoms off the glass and plants and vacuum it up like you are doing. It's harmless as far as I know. You are leaving the lights on too little. Your tank should mimic Mother Nature and at most have light for only 12 hours a day but usually 8-10 hours is good. Why are you leaving them on for only 4-5 hours a day? That's not giving your fish much "daylight" and could possibly lead to stress and health issues. This will also help establish the rest of the "natural" biology in your tank. You are also on the verge of being way overstocked (or you may already be way overstocked) unless all of your gouramis are the dwarf varieties. Most non-dwarf gouramies should grow to 6" each. Neither me nor Google has heard of a "Giant Bronkus catfish" so I have no clue how large they are supposed to get but judging from the name, your tank isn't big enough for them either. Overstocking your tank or having BIG fish in an undersized tank will lead to high hormone levels which will cause stress and health issues to your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Hi. I am new to the group. My name is Jimmy. In November I set up a 90 gal tank with a Fluval 405 filter. After a period of cycling I gradually added a verity of gouramis. It now contain 16 gouramis and 2 Giant Bronkus catfish. The largest of the gouramis is about 3 inches with most being about 2 inches. The ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and the nitrates are 10 ppm. The phosphate is about 1 ppm. All plants are artificial. The aquarium does not get any direct sunlight. The light is left on from 4 to 5 hours per day. Within the last month I have begun to see a brown algae on some of the decorations and plants. I change 25 to 30% of the water every 2 weeks and attempt to remove as mush of the algae as possible with gravel vacuuming. The water is clear. My question is will the algae continue to spread? Would a UV Sterilizer be advised? Although it is not a big problem now if it continues to spread it will be.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

For lighting, I try to mimic the normal daylight. I turn on a room light around 7 a.m. since turning on the aquarium lights would be startling to the fish going from near total darkness to bright light. Around 8:30 a.m., I turn on the tank lights. Around 5:30 p.m., I turn on a room light and turn off the tank lights. Then around 7 p.m., I turn off the room light except for maybe my desk lamp and the TV if I'm in the room. If you have to leave the room lights on bright after dark, think about getting some kind of a curtain to put on the tank so it stays dark in the tank. As you've probably seen, others have clarified that your catfish was likely the brochis. What about your gourami's? Are they the dwarf variety? If not, you might want to increase your PWC's to weekly to reduce/remove the hormones they are putting out that will cause them to be stunted. By doing more frequent PWC's during their growing years, you can make them think they are in a larger volume of water since the hormone levels will stay lower. Some of the newer advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen is reported to help with the filtering of hormones also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Thanks Lenny. I'll put the lights on a timer. I was leaving them on only when I was at home. Sorry I misspelled the catfish name. It should have been Giant Brochis (Brochis britskii). It is reported up to 5 in. but usually smaller. Mine are about 2 in. currently. They are not Corydoras, but similar. As for the brown algae I'll continue to treat it as I am by cleaning and vacuuming with partial water changes. Maybe it will clear up with more light and time. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae You have several issues. If your tank is only a month old, brown algae is common due to the excess silicates that leach from many things in a new aquarium... including the silicone. The brown algae (diatoms) will utilize these excess silicates as the rest of the tanks ecology gets established. Just brush the diatoms off the glass and plants and vacuum it up like you are doing. It's harmless as far as I know. You are leaving the lights on too little. Your tank should mimic Mother Nature and at most have light for only 12 hours a day but usually 8-10 hours is good. Why are you leaving them on for only 4-5 hours a day? That's not giving your fish much "daylight" and could possibly lead to stress and health issues. This will also help establish the rest of the "natural" biology in your tank. You are also on the verge of being way overstocked (or you may already be way overstocked) unless all of your gouramis are the dwarf varieties. Most non-dwarf gouramies should grow to 6" each. Neither me nor Google has heard of a "Giant Bronkus catfish" so I have no clue how large they are supposed to get but judging from the name, your tank isn't big enough for them either. Overstocking your tank or having BIG fish in an undersized tank will lead to high hormone levels which will cause stress and health issues to your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Hi. I am new to the group. My name is Jimmy. In November I set up a 90 gal tank with a Fluval 405 filter. After a period of cycling I gradually added a verity of gouramis. It now contain 16 gouramis and 2 Giant Bronkus catfish. The largest of the gouramis is about 3 inches with most being about 2 inches. The ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and the nitrates are 10 ppm. The phosphate is about 1 ppm. All plants are artificial. The aquarium does not get any direct sunlight. The light is left on from 4 to 5 hours per day. Within the last month I have begun to see a brown algae on some of the decorations and plants. I change 25 to 30% of the water every 2 weeks and attempt to remove as mush of the algae as possible with gravel vacuuming. The water is clear. My question is will the algae continue to spread? Would a UV Sterilizer be advised? Although it is not a big problem now if it continues to spread it will be. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25854	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Hi Jimmy, I read a little more about them and it appears that the B. britskii is the Long-finned Brochis ( Brochis britskii ), according to Mongabay who generally has very reliable fish profiles. They have Giant Brochis (Brochis multiradiatus ) but PlanetCatfish.com has one of the common names for B. britskii as the Giant Brochis... http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=50. That's the thing about catfish... their names are often morphed which is why there are specialized sites just for catfish like PlanetCatfish.com, PlecoFanatics.com and ScotCats.com. Steve, I'm not sure why Fishbase didn't show up Brochis for you. Here is the genus search I just did for "Genus is Brochis". http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php?crit1_fieldnam e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_value=br ochis&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&crit2_operato r=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=13120&genusname=Brochis&sp eciesname=britskii http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=13125&genusname=Brochis&sp eciesname=multiradiatus Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Thanks Lenny. I'll put the lights on a timer. I was leaving them on only when I was at home. Sorry I misspelled the catfish name. It should have been Giant Brochis (Brochis britskii). It is reported up to 5 in. but usually smaller. Mine are about 2 in. currently. They are not Corydoras, but similar. As for the brown algae I'll continue to treat it as I am by cleaning and vacuuming with partial water changes. Maybe it will clear up with more light and time. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae You have several issues. If your tank is only a month old, brown algae is common due to the excess silicates that leach from many things in a new aquarium... including the silicone. The brown algae (diatoms) will utilize these excess silicates as the rest of the tanks ecology gets established. Just brush the diatoms off the glass and plants and vacuum it up like you are doing. It's harmless as far as I know. You are leaving the lights on too little. Your tank should mimic Mother Nature and at most have light for only 12 hours a day but usually 8-10 hours is good. Why are you leaving them on for only 4-5 hours a day? That's not giving your fish much "daylight" and could possibly lead to stress and health issues. This will also help establish the rest of the "natural" biology in your tank. You are also on the verge of being way overstocked (or you may already be way overstocked) unless all of your gouramis are the dwarf varieties. Most non-dwarf gouramies should grow to 6" each. Neither me nor Google has heard of a "Giant Bronkus catfish" so I have no clue how large they are supposed to get but judging from the name, your tank isn't big enough for them either. Overstocking your tank or having BIG fish in an undersized tank will lead to high hormone levels which will cause stress and health issues to your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Hi. I am new to the group. My name is Jimmy. In November I set up a 90 gal tank with a Fluval 405 filter. After a period of cycling I gradually added a verity of gouramis. It now contain 16 gouramis and 2 Giant Bronkus catfish. The largest of the gouramis is about 3 inches with most being about 2 inches. The ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and the nitrates are 10 ppm. The phosphate is about 1 ppm. All plants are artificial. The aquarium does not get any direct sunlight. The light is left on from 4 to 5 hours per day. Within the last month I have begun to see a brown algae on some of the decorations and plants. I change 25 to 30% of the water every 2 weeks and attempt to remove as mush of the algae as possible with gravel vacuuming. The water is clear. My question is will the algae continue to spread? Would a UV Sterilizer be advised? Although it is not a big problem now if it continues to spread it will be. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25855	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Lenny, It did show _Brochis_, three species, but not the one I was looking for, so I am wondering if it has been renamed, placing it in another genus. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Hi Jimmy, I read a little more about them and it appears that the B. britskii is the Long-finned Brochis ( Brochis britskii ), according to Mongabay who generally has very reliable fish profiles. They have Giant Brochis (Brochis multiradiatus ) but PlanetCatfish.com has one of the common names for B. britskii as the Giant Brochis... http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=50. That's the thing about catfish... their names are often morphed which is why there are specialized sites just for catfish like PlanetCatfish.com, PlecoFanatics.com and ScotCats.com. Steve, I'm not sure why Fishbase didn't show up Brochis for you. Here is the genus search I just did for "Genus is Brochis". http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php?crit1_fieldnam e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_value=br ochis&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&crit2_operato r=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=13120&genusname=Brochis&sp eciesname=britskii http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=13125&genusname=Brochis&sp eciesname=multiradiatus Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Thanks Lenny. I'll put the lights on a timer. I was leaving them on only when I was at home. Sorry I misspelled the catfish name. It should have been Giant Brochis (Brochis britskii). It is reported up to 5 in. but usually smaller. Mine are about 2 in. currently. They are not Corydoras, but similar. As for the brown algae I'll continue to treat it as I am by cleaning and vacuuming with partial water changes. Maybe it will clear up with more light and time. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae You have several issues. If your tank is only a month old, brown algae is common due to the excess silicates that leach from many things in a new aquarium... including the silicone. The brown algae (diatoms) will utilize these excess silicates as the rest of the tanks ecology gets established. Just brush the diatoms off the glass and plants and vacuum it up like you are doing. It's harmless as far as I know. You are leaving the lights on too little. Your tank should mimic Mother Nature and at most have light for only 12 hours a day but usually 8-10 hours is good. Why are you leaving them on for only 4-5 hours a day? That's not giving your fish much "daylight" and could possibly lead to stress and health issues. This will also help establish the rest of the "natural" biology in your tank. You are also on the verge of being way overstocked (or you may already be way overstocked) unless all of your gouramis are the dwarf varieties. Most non-dwarf gouramies should grow to 6" each. Neither me nor Google has heard of a "Giant Bronkus catfish" so I have no clue how large they are supposed to get but judging from the name, your tank isn't big enough for them either. Overstocking your tank or having BIG fish in an undersized tank will lead to high hormone levels which will cause stress and health issues to your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Hi. I am new to the group. My name is Jimmy. In November I set up a 90 gal tank with a Fluval 405 filter. After a period of cycling I gradually added a verity of gouramis. It now contain 16 gouramis and 2 Giant Bronkus catfish. The largest of the gouramis is about 3 inches with most being about 2 inches. The ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and the nitrates are 10 ppm. The phosphate is about 1 ppm. All plants are artificial. The aquarium does not get any direct sunlight. The light is left on from 4 to 5 hours per day. Within the last month I have begun to see a brown algae on some of the decorations and plants. I change 25 to 30% of the water every 2 weeks and attempt to remove as mush of the algae as possible with gravel vacuuming. The water is clear. My question is will the algae continue to spread? Would a UV Sterilizer be advised? Although it is not a big problem now if it continues to spread it will be. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. *´Ż`*.¸¸.><((((ş>.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸><((((ş> ¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸<ş((((><¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..<ş((((><*´Ż`*.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25856	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Thanks again Lenny. Of the 16 gourami's 5 are of the dwarf variety. The rest are young fish 2 to 3 in. in length. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:12 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae For lighting, I try to mimic the normal daylight. I turn on a room light around 7 a.m. since turning on the aquarium lights would be startling to the fish going from near total darkness to bright light. Around 8:30 a.m., I turn on the tank lights. Around 5:30 p.m., I turn on a room light and turn off the tank lights. Then around 7 p.m., I turn off the room light except for maybe my desk lamp and the TV if I'm in the room. If you have to leave the room lights on bright after dark, think about getting some kind of a curtain to put on the tank so it stays dark in the tank. As you've probably seen, others have clarified that your catfish was likely the brochis. What about your gourami's? Are they the dwarf variety? If not, you might want to increase your PWC's to weekly to reduce/remove the hormones they are putting out that will cause them to be stunted. By doing more frequent PWC's during their growing years, you can make them think they are in a larger volume of water since the hormone levels will stay lower. Some of the newer advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen is reported to help with the filtering of hormones also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Thanks Lenny. I'll put the lights on a timer. I was leaving them on only when I was at home. Sorry I misspelled the catfish name. It should have been Giant Brochis (Brochis britskii). It is reported up to 5 in. but usually smaller. Mine are about 2 in. currently. They are not Corydoras, but similar. As for the brown algae I'll continue to treat it as I am by cleaning and vacuuming with partial water changes. Maybe it will clear up with more light and time. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae You have several issues. If your tank is only a month old, brown algae is common due to the excess silicates that leach from many things in a new aquarium... including the silicone. The brown algae (diatoms) will utilize these excess silicates as the rest of the tanks ecology gets established. Just brush the diatoms off the glass and plants and vacuum it up like you are doing. It's harmless as far as I know. You are leaving the lights on too little. Your tank should mimic Mother Nature and at most have light for only 12 hours a day but usually 8-10 hours is good. Why are you leaving them on for only 4-5 hours a day? That's not giving your fish much "daylight" and could possibly lead to stress and health issues. This will also help establish the rest of the "natural" biology in your tank. You are also on the verge of being way overstocked (or you may already be way overstocked) unless all of your gouramis are the dwarf varieties. Most non-dwarf gouramies should grow to 6" each. Neither me nor Google has heard of a "Giant Bronkus catfish" so I have no clue how large they are supposed to get but judging from the name, your tank isn't big enough for them either. Overstocking your tank or having BIG fish in an undersized tank will lead to high hormone levels which will cause stress and health issues to your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Hi. I am new to the group. My name is Jimmy. In November I set up a 90 gal tank with a Fluval 405 filter. After a period of cycling I gradually added a verity of gouramis. It now contain 16 gouramis and 2 Giant Bronkus catfish. The largest of the gouramis is about 3 inches with most being about 2 inches. The ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and the nitrates are 10 ppm. The phosphate is about 1 ppm. All plants are artificial. The aquarium does not get any direct sunlight. The light is left on from 4 to 5 hours per day. Within the last month I have begun to see a brown algae on some of the decorations and plants. I change 25 to 30% of the water every 2 weeks and attempt to remove as mush of the algae as possible with gravel vacuuming. The water is clear. My question is will the algae continue to spread? Would a UV Sterilizer be advised? Although it is not a big problem now if it continues to spread it will be. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25857	From: Dale	Date: 2/14/2008
Subject: Re: "Mini" reef ?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn Francis" <mlfrancis2@...> wrote: > > David, > There must be something in the water because I picked up a used 24gal > Nano-cube yesterday with the thoughts of starting a small salt tank. > I'm starting to do the reading and research now. I would like to do > a mini reef, but it could easily become a "Nemo and Dori" tank for > the kids enjoyment, but I hope not. ;-) > > I can't help much at this point, but here's what I know already. I > picked it up because it was used, a pretty good price, and very local > to me. If I had to buy a new one, not sure if I would actually go > this route. My initial impression is it looks nice, but cleaning the > foam filter looks like it will be a bit of a mess because it fits > very tightly into the very back compartment. > > It doesn't have any kind of skimmer and doesn't have much room to add > one. There is a "skimmer" comb looking thing you can attach to the > intake and it's supposed to help remove skum from the top of the > water by making the topmost water fall into the filter chamber. > Seems like it would help, but it's still not really a skimmer. I'm > guessing that as long as it's not over populated maybe the skimmer > isn't as important. My jury is still out on that one. > > The lid doesn't seem to come off very easily and when I take it off, > I have the fear of breaking the plastic connectors, but hasn't > happened yet, but I can see it as a potential problem. > > On the plus side, it looks very nice, the two ventilation fans run > very quite, and it puts out a good deal of light but would never be > considered overly bright. > > That's all I've got so far. Hope something there helps. > > 24 gal. is to small for a "Dori" (Blue Hippo tang). It'll perfect for a "Nemo" (clown fish) as far as cleaning the sponge, i dont think you need to clean that but once a year, the idea is to build up nitrifying bacteria, a skimmer is a plus but i had my 45 reef without a skimmer, and i know a couple people that do that as well, the thought is to let the rock and live sand break down waste. any kind of skimmer is a plus, hope that lil bit of info helps > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Davis <davisplumeria@> wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > I have no experience with salt water aquariums! > > > > Recently I saw a 29 G. "mini reef tank" . The so called Nano Cube > or Bio Cube that come with lights and filter. Sounds simple and easy > enough for a beginner :)) > > > > I am sure some of you have experience with this system. I'd like to > hear from you the pro and con of these mini reef tanks before I get > myself into ..big trouble :)) > > > > Thank you. > > > > David / Texas > > > > the nano or mini reef tanks are really cool, small footprint,small power consumption,. the down side is limited space for filtration ,skimmers,lights.and limited on the coral you can do under those conditions, but i have seen awesome mini setups > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25858	From: Amy	Date: 2/14/2008
Subject: HELP.......Anyone know what to do with a tadpole?

Today I bought feeder guppies for my Puffers and when I was emptying the bag out I found a tadpole. I got my 3 gallon back up tank all set up for him and put him in there, but thats all I know about tadpoles. I can not seem to find any sites that tell me what the water temp should be or what to feed this guy. So any and all help would be greatly appriciated, thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25859	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2008
Subject: Re: HELP.......Anyone know what to do with a tadpole?

It would help to know what kind of tadpole (frog, toad, species). Maybe your fish store would know but in either case try here... http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/caresheets.html (species specific care sheets) and http://www.monkeyfrog.com/tadpolespage.html (general tadpole care sheet) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP.......Anyone know what to do with a tadpole? Today I bought feeder guppies for my Puffers and when I was emptying the bag out I found a tadpole. I got my 3 gallon back up tank all set up for him and put him in there, but thats all I know about tadpoles. I can not seem to find any sites that tell me what the water temp should be or what to feed this guy. So any and all help would be greatly appriciated, thanks. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.5/1279 - Release Date: 2/14/2008 6:35 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25860	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 2/14/2008
Subject: Re: HELP.......Anyone know what to do with a tadpole?

Hi, Feed teeny-tiny amounts of tropical fish food twice daily. Did I say tiny? Tiny. Good luck mom, CC --- Amy <lovemyboys1976@...> wrote: > Today I bought feeder guppies for my Puffers and > when I was emptying > the bag out I found a tadpole. I got my 3 gallon > back up tank all set > up for him and put him in there, but thats all I > know about tadpoles. > I can not seem to find any sites that tell me what > the water temp > should be or what to feed this guy. So any and all > help would be > greatly appriciated, thanks. > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25861	From: Amy	Date: 2/14/2008
Subject: Re: HELP.......Anyone know what to do with a tadpole?

Perfect that second site the monkeyfrog.com was just what I needed. That has step by step care. And I am in luck, I have algea pellets and it says to try koi and trout foods. So fingers crossed I hope this little guy does well.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25862	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: "Mini" reef ?

Hey Dale, Thanks for the info. As far as adding fish go and "Dori" being too small for a 24gal, I wouldn't actually add fish until I read more about them. Our Dori, may in the end, be a blue damsel or something. The kids haven't seen the movie in a long time and wouldn't pick up on it. LOL. Of course I have to read up on blue Damels first. ;-) Lynn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dale" <knowles_dale@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn Francis" <mlfrancis2@> wrote: > > > > David, > > There must be something in the water because I picked up a used 24gal > > Nano-cube yesterday with the thoughts of starting a small salt tank. > > I'm starting to do the reading and research now. I would like to do > > a mini reef, but it could easily become a "Nemo and Dori" tank for > > the kids enjoyment, but I hope not. ;-) > > > > I can't help much at this point, but here's what I know already. I > > picked it up because it was used, a pretty good price, and very local > > to me. If I had to buy a new one, not sure if I would actually go > > this route. My initial impression is it looks nice, but cleaning the > > foam filter looks like it will be a bit of a mess because it fits > > very tightly into the very back compartment. > > > > It doesn't have any kind of skimmer and doesn't have much room to add > > one. There is a "skimmer" comb looking thing you can attach to the > > intake and it's supposed to help remove skum from the top of the > > water by making the topmost water fall into the filter chamber. > > Seems like it would help, but it's still not really a skimmer. I'm > > guessing that as long as it's not over populated maybe the skimmer > > isn't as important. My jury is still out on that one. > > > > The lid doesn't seem to come off very easily and when I take it off, > > I have the fear of breaking the plastic connectors, but hasn't > > happened yet, but I can see it as a potential problem. > > > > On the plus side, it looks very nice, the two ventilation fans run > > very quite, and it puts out a good deal of light but would never be > > considered overly bright. > > > > That's all I've got so far. Hope something there helps. > > > > 24 gal. is to small for a "Dori" (Blue Hippo tang). It'll perfect > for a "Nemo" (clown fish) as far as cleaning the sponge, i dont think > you need to clean that but once a year, the idea is to build up > nitrifying bacteria, a skimmer is a plus but i had my 45 reef without > a skimmer, and i know a couple people that do that as well, the > thought is to let the rock and live sand break down waste. any kind of > skimmer is a plus, hope that lil bit of info helps > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Davis <davisplumeria@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > I have no experience with salt water aquariums! > > > > > > Recently I saw a 29 G. "mini reef tank" . The so called Nano Cube > > or Bio Cube that come with lights and filter. Sounds simple and easy > > enough for a beginner :)) > > > > > > I am sure some of you have experience with this system. I'd like to > > hear from you the pro and con of these mini reef tanks before I get > > myself into ..big trouble :)) > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > David / Texas > > > > > > the nano or mini reef tanks are really cool, small footprint,small > power consumption,. the down side is limited space for filtration > ,skimmers,lights.and limited on the coral you can do under those > conditions, but i have seen awesome mini setups > > > --------------------------------- > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > > Search. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25863	From: Heather	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: What fish would work well with danios?

we are going to set up another tank probably another 20 gallon for our danios. My fiance wants a beta and a couple neon tetras. Would these fish work well with the 6 danios or no?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25864	From: Debra	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Heather" <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > we are going to set up another tank probably another 20 gallon for our danios. My fiance wants a beta and a couple neon tetras. Would these fish work well with the 6 danios or no? I have kept danios and neons with both betta and discus with no problems. I agree the danios are voracious top feeders but I also use frozen blood worms and beef heart which sink as well as mysis shrimp on occasion. I've never lost a fish because it starved to death. The only fish I've had that were nippy and bothered the others have been tiger barbs, gourami, and my red tailed shark. The barbs and the shark have their own 55 gal tank now and don't seem to bother each other. I also keep corydora cats and siamese algae eaters in most of my non-species tanks. Deb >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25865	From: Heather	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?

Thanks Deb. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Debra" <dmelton2@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Heather" <lilredhd1@> wrote: > > > > we are going to set up another tank probably another 20 gallon for > our danios. My fiance wants a beta and a couple neon tetras. Would > these fish work well with the 6 danios or no? > > I have kept danios and neons with both betta and discus with no > problems. I agree the danios are voracious top feeders but I also use > frozen blood worms and beef heart which sink as well as mysis shrimp on > occasion. I've never lost a fish because it starved to death. > > The only fish I've had that were nippy and bothered the others have > been tiger barbs, gourami, and my red tailed shark. The barbs and the > shark have their own 55 gal tank now and don't seem to bother each > other. I also keep corydora cats and siamese algae eaters in most of > my non-species tanks. > > Deb > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25866	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?

A good guide for species compatibility (or suggested companions) is the Mongabay profile where they have an SC section on each profile. You don't say what kind of danio's but I think you have Zebra Danio's if I recall correctly. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Brachydanio_rerio.html If they aren't ZD's, then here's several more Danio profiles. http://fish.mongabay.com/danios.htm While the Betta could work, ZD's like fast moving water and Betta's don't, so you might have to work on moving your filter output to one end of the tank so the other end would have less water movement for the Betta if he wants to build a bubble nest or just relax. The tetras also like faster moving water so they'll be fine but get more than a couple.. at least a school of six. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What fish would work well with danios? we are going to set up another tank probably another 20 gallon for our danios. My fiance wants a beta and a couple neon tetras. Would these fish work well with the 6 danios or no? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.5/1279 - Release Date: 2/14/2008 6:35 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25867	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?

Thanks lenny. They are fancy tail danios. I will check out the links! -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What fish would work well with danios? A good guide for species compatibility (or suggested companions) is the Mongabay profile where they have an SC section on each profile. You don't say what kind of danio's but I think you have Zebra Danio's if I recall correctly. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Brachydanio_rerio.html If they aren't ZD's, then here's several more Danio profiles. http://fish.mongabay.com/danios.htm While the Betta could work, ZD's like fast moving water and Betta's don't, so you might have to work on moving your filter output to one end of the tank so the other end would have less water movement for the Betta if he wants to build a bubble nest or just relax. The tetras also like faster moving water so they'll be fine but get more than a couple.. at least a school of six. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What fish would work well with danios? we are going to set up another tank probably another 20 gallon for our danios. My fiance wants a beta and a couple neon tetras. Would these fish work well with the 6 danios or no? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.5/1279 - Release Date: 2/14/2008 6:35 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in [The entire original message is not included]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25868	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

Well, my experience with the common brown Plecos sold in the pet stores is that if they can get a snail in their capacious mouth, they will eat it. I usually only find snails in my power filter. They also love fresh vegetables like slices of zucchini and yellow squash, small helpings of frozen spinach etc. They will also eat your plants if they get hungry enough. I would also expect Plecos to eat your ghost shrimp. I expect they would leave crawfish - those so-called "blue lobsters" that pet shops like to sell to the unwary- (why anyone wants one in their setup is beyond me - they'll eat anything that they can catch!) alone, as they can defend themselves quite well and will attack fish larger than they are if they think they can win. I don't think any of the Pleco family will stay small, as in "a couple of inches long." I can say that when they get to about 8 inches long, they start showing definite personalities and will do things like eat from your fingers.    Gregg Bender Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25869	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?

A male Betta may not like other fancy tailed fish... they see them as a threat to them being the prettiest fish. I forgot you have fancy tailed ZD's. The ZD's may still be fast enough to avoid the Betta but there could be problems so be ready to separate them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What fish would work well with danios? Thanks lenny. They are fancy tail danios. I will check out the links! -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What fish would work well with danios? A good guide for species compatibility (or suggested companions) is the Mongabay profile where they have an SC section on each profile. You don't say what kind of danio's but I think you have Zebra Danio's if I recall correctly. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Brachydanio_rerio.html If they aren't ZD's, then here's several more Danio profiles. http://fish.mongabay.com/danios.htm While the Betta could work, ZD's like fast moving water and Betta's don't, so you might have to work on moving your filter output to one end of the tank so the other end would have less water movement for the Betta if he wants to build a bubble nest or just relax. The tetras also like faster moving water so they'll be fine but get more than a couple.. at least a school of six. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What fish would work well with danios? we are going to set up another tank probably another 20 gallon for our danios. My fiance wants a beta and a couple neon tetras. Would these fish work well with the 6 danios or no? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.5/1279 - Release Date: 2/14/2008 6:35 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25870	From: s.billock	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: New member looking for advice in first saltwater setup

I am 46 years old and have been keeping freshwater setups on and off since childhood. I now want to get started in saltwater and am looking for advice from those who know more than I in this. I am starting with a 29 gallon tank and wish to start out simple and inexpensive for now. I need advice on a simple setup, how to mix salt, and about the types of fish I could keep as well as invertabrate possibilities. Please add any other info that would be helpful. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25871	From: Jenn	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

My bushy nosed pleco has never shown an interest in the snails. He is now giving the panda garra a run for his money when it comes to the algae (not complaining!) The pleco has never bothered with my ghost shrimp either. The red tail botia, yoyo loach and angelicus botia that I have are supposed to be the bottom feeding/snail clean up crew. I have started skipping a day a week when feeding and it seems to be working, there are less snails than before. Oh, and I got a pair of Parkinson's Rainbows...they are awesome.....I was thrilled to find them at a great price. jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25872	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

I had several of my tanks overun with snails. I added a pair of to the clown loaches to one tank to see how they handled it. After about two weeks I had zero snails. Someone posted on one of the fish group sites that many snails could be removed by placing a leaf of lettuce overnight. I tried it and every morning the lettuce leaf would be covered with snails. After about 2 weeks I had no snails in those tanks either. I did notice that if I would crush any snails against the side of the tank that my angels love them... they almost fight to get them.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: jennhonaker1974@...: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:54:41 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Fleas My bushy nosed pleco has never shown an interest in the snails. He isnow giving the panda garra a run for his money when it comes to thealgae (not complaining!) The pleco has never bothered with my ghostshrimp either. The red tail botia, yoyo loach and angelicus botia thatI have are supposed to be the bottom feeding/snail clean up crew. Ihave started skipping a day a week when feeding and it seems to beworking, there are less snails than before. Oh, and I got a pair ofParkinson's Rainbows...they are awesome.....I was thrilled to findthem at a great price. jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25873	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: Water Fleas

Just remember when recommending clown loaches that they get very BIG and should be kept in shoals of five or more so folks need a 150G+ tank to keep a shoal of them long term. They should live for 15-20+ years... most BIG fish do live a long time in the proper home. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ''Grey'' Greymane Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 1:04 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Fleas I had several of my tanks overun with snails. I added a pair of to the clown loaches to one tank to see how they handled it. After about two weeks I had zero snails. Someone posted on one of the fish group sites that many snails could be removed by placing a leaf of lettuce overnight. I tried it and every morning the lettuce leaf would be covered with snails. After about 2 weeks I had no snails in those tanks either. I did notice that if I would crush any snails against the side of the tank that my angels love them... they almost fight to get them.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : jennhonaker1974@... <mailto:jennhonaker1974%40yahoo.comDate> : Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:54:41 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Fleas My bushy nosed pleco has never shown an interest in the snails. He isnow giving the panda garra a run for his money when it comes to thealgae (not complaining!) The pleco has never bothered with my ghostshrimp either. The red tail botia, yoyo loach and angelicus botia thatI have are supposed to be the bottom feeding/snail clean up crew. Ihave started skipping a day a week when feeding and it seems to beworking, there are less snails than before. Oh, and I got a pair ofParkinson's Rainbows...they are awesome.....I was thrilled to findthem at a great price. jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.6/1282 - Release Date: 2/15/2008 7:08 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25874	From: luke leming	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: my first plant

Hi I'm luke and i bought my first plant it was a java fern i got it from pets mart and it looked pretty beat up.I noticed that the roots are a darkbrown color.Is that normal? Do I need to take it back? also could you suggest any otherbegginer plants for a low light 55g tall with 2 common plecos 1drawf goruami 1 angel fish 1redtail shark 6 zebra danios 1 ropefish?i hope to have a new home for the plecos soon I had them a long time and is a rescue from a convict tank ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25875	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2008
Subject: Re: my first plant

Do a little research when buying plants from PetsMart since they often will have bog plants in their aquarium plant tanks and bog plants are not supposed to be submersed full time. Here's a couple of pages of easy and very easy plants with profiles on each plant. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 I'm glad you are looking for new homes for your common plecos. Check with your LFS to see if they have a "trade-in" program. After Hurricane Katrina, when I was not able to upgrade to a 150G tank, my 65G tank started getting too small for my common pleco (he was up to 10") so I had to trade him in and they gave me 50% store credit and found him a new home in a BIG tank. It's a win-win situation for people with smaller tanks so they can keep a pleco for 6 months to a year and then trade them in for a new juvenile pleco and the LFS can then sell the bigger pleco to people with BIG tanks that want to start off with a bigger/older fish. I rescued mine from a 10G tank and he was only 4" long after two years in that 10G. He grew so much in the 18 months I had him in my 65G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of luke leming Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 1:29 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] my first plant Hi I'm luke and i bought my first plant it was a java fern i got it from pets mart and it looked pretty beat up.I noticed that the roots are a darkbrown color.Is that normal? Do I need to take it back? also could you suggest any otherbegginer plants for a low light 55g tall with 2 common plecos 1drawf goruami 1 angel fish 1redtail shark 6 zebra danios 1 ropefish?i hope to have a new home for the plecos soon I had them a long time and is a rescue from a convict tank No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.6/1282 - Release Date: 2/15/2008 7:08 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25876	From: Jim	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

My next investment will be a wet/dry vacuum. At 12:10 am as I was perusing the messages here, I heard a noise that I recognized as one of my HOT filters sucking air. I turned around and saw that one of my 55 gallon tanks containing 5 adult angels and a plec was only half full and water was all over the carpet in my bedroom. Water was leaking rather quickly from one of the corner seams about 4 inches up from the bottom. I grabbed every towel in the house and started soaking up the water. I hooked up my python to drain the rest of the tank while I transferred the fish to other tanks. It is now 3:40am and I have done all that I can do tonight. This is NOT the way I had hoped to begin the weekend. Tomorrow I will be hitting Lowe's and Home Depot to pick up a wet/dry vacuum and some tubes of silicone.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25877	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

Check your local Craigslist.org for the wet vac. I've picked them up for less than 1/2 price on there. Make sure you get aquarium safe silicone. Not that this happens very often to aquarium owners, but they sell a rather inexpensive "water alarm", similar to a smoke alarm where it sits on the floor and if even the slightest amount of water gets on the floor, it lets out a shriek. You can find them in the A/C filter section at Home Depot. Lots of people who live in upper floor condos get them for under their A/C air handlers or hot water heaters so if they ever start to leak, they'll be notified before the downstairs neighbor suffers thousands of dollars of damages. Last but certainly not least... be glad you were up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 2:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tonight was a pain in the 4$$... My next investment will be a wet/dry vacuum. At 12:10 am as I was perusing the messages here, I heard a noise that I recognized as one of my HOT filters sucking air. I turned around and saw that one of my 55 gallon tanks containing 5 adult angels and a plec was only half full and water was all over the carpet in my bedroom. Water was leaking rather quickly from one of the corner seams about 4 inches up from the bottom. I grabbed every towel in the house and started soaking up the water. I hooked up my python to drain the rest of the tank while I transferred the fish to other tanks. It is now 3:40am and I have done all that I can do tonight. This is NOT the way I had hoped to begin the weekend. Tomorrow I will be hitting Lowe's and Home Depot to pick up a wet/dry vacuum and some tubes of silicone. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.6/1282 - Release Date: 2/15/2008 7:08 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25878	From: luke leming	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

sorry to hear about that jim.thats one of my biggest fears i got a 55g to and i purchesed renters insurance because of it hope you have something simaler! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25879	From: luke leming	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: my first plant

thanks i'm bretty sure its a java fern but are the brown roots normal? great info on the links i hope to have a fully planted tank in a few mounths ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25880	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: my first plant

The java fern has roots of a dark color. It is a plant that does well in low light situations. Do not plant it in the substrate. Instead use some nylon fishing line or similar to tie it, loosely but securely, to a piece of drift wood or a stone. Eventually, it will anchor itself to the spot you have chosen. It is a relative slow grower, especially in low light situations, but propagates easily. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of luke leming Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 2:29 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] my first plant Hi I'm luke and i bought my first plant it was a java fern i got it from pets mart and it looked pretty beat up.I noticed that the roots are a darkbrown color.Is that normal? Do I need to take it back? also could you suggest any otherbegginer plants for a low light 55g tall with 2 common plecos 1drawf goruami 1 angel fish 1redtail shark 6 zebra danios 1 ropefish?i hope to have a new home for the plecos soon I had them a long time and is a rescue from a convict tank ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25881	From: James	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Heather" <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > we are going to set up another tank probably another 20 gallon for our danios. My fiance wants a beta and a couple neon tetras. Would these fish work well with the 6 danios or no? > I had a Betta in with Danios and had no problems. They would eat the blood worms faster then the Betta sometimes but he got his share. They would not eat his food though. They prefer flakes over tiny balls. Neons go well with Danios except the giant one they might be to small. James <http://www.yourfishtankguru.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25882	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: What fish would work well with danios?

I never thought of that...maybe we will hold off on the betta..I dont want any scuffles with my fish...lol! -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What fish would work well with danios? A male Betta may not like other fancy tailed fish... they see them as a threat to them being the prettiest fish. I forgot you have fancy tailed ZD's. The ZD's may still be fast enough to avoid the Betta but there could be problems so be ready to separate them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What fish would work well with danios? Thanks lenny. They are fancy tail danios. I will check out the links! -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What fish would work well with danios? A good guide for species compatibility (or suggested companions) is the Mongabay profile where they have an SC section on each profile. You don't say what kind of danio's but I think you have Z [The entire original message is not included] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25883	From: James	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: my first plant

My Java Ferns have dark brownish color roots. I looked it up in a tropical fish book about water plants and they are suppose to have the dark colored roots. The beat up could have been the person mishandled the plant. James <http://yourfishtankguru.com/katys_tropical_fish.html> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, luke leming <lukeleming@...> wrote: > > Hi I'm luke and i bought my first plant it was a java fern i got it from pets mart and it looked pretty beat up.I noticed that the roots are a darkbrown color.Is that normal? Do I need to take it back? also could you suggest any otherbegginer plants for a low light 55g tall with 2 common plecos 1drawf goruami 1 angel fish 1redtail shark 6 zebra danios 1 ropefish?i hope to have a new home for the plecos soon I had them a long time and is a rescue from a convict tank > > > ________________________________________________________________________\ ____________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25884	From: Wendie	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

Been there done that twice! Once in the kitchen and once in the livingroom. There's still a musty smell there. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 3:46 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Tonight was a pain in the 4$$... My next investment will be a wet/dry vacuum. At 12:10 am as I was perusing the messages here, I heard a noise that I recognized as one of my HOT filters sucking air. I turned around and saw that one of my 55 gallon tanks containing 5 adult angels and a plec was only half full and water was all over the carpet in my bedroom. Water was leaking rather quickly from one of the corner seams about 4 inches up from the bottom. I grabbed every towel in the house and started soaking up the water. I hooked up my python to drain the rest of the tank while I transferred the fish to other tanks. It is now 3:40am and I have done all that I can do tonight. This is NOT the way I had hoped to begin the weekend. Tomorrow I will be hitting Lowe's and Home Depot to pick up a wet/dry vacuum and some tubes of silicone. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25885	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

Likewise...but with 125 gallons of water :-( The room the fish tank was in was painted concrete (my "dog room") but it and the adjoining room had both been carpeted, THEN a wall was built to separate it into 2 rooms (by the previous owners, NOT us!) So when I ripped the carpet out of the dog room, I only cut as far under the wall as I could reach. Which left a ragged edge that wicked water very well apparently, as most of it ended up in there. Oh, and have I mentioned that my hubby tolerates but doesn't love my tanks...and that the room most affected was his "man room" where he keeps all his fun "guy stuff"...and that he is a guitar/amp collector...ughh.... Oh, and this happened the last day of our vacation so we got in at 5 am after driving 16 hours straight to find it :-( Luckily my housesitter had moved the fish to my isolation tank before he vacated, but he didn't know what else to do so he didn't. I thought for sure all the tanks were GONE, and I would have had to comply had any of the hubby most precious items been ruined but thank goodness they all dried with very minimal damage. I don't know if we got smart or lucky, but I sucked up what I could with the steam cleaner, then steam cleaned again with a dash of bleach in the water (don't try this at home, kids, it was desperation!), then set up a borrowed dehumidifyer at full power for 1 1/2 weeks. Everything did dry out and the room smells cleaner than ever now... And I was allowed to keep all my tanks...just no new ones...and none in that room :-) Carmen On Feb 16, 2008 9:17 AM, Wendie <wendieo@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Been there done that twice! Once in the kitchen and once in the livingroom. > There's still a musty smell there.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25886	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

Well, it could have been worse. The tank that leaked only held six fish. Had it been one of my fry growout tanks, I could have been trying to catch over a hundred baby angels. Luckily my apartment is located above a convenience store and the floor is 4' of concrete. Even if any water did manage to leak downstairs it would have leaked into their beverage cooler. All told I would estimate that about 30 gallons leaked before I stemmed the flow. I managed to borrow a shop vac this morning and have so far vacuumed up about 15 gallons from the carpet in my bedroom. Next I need to empty the bedroom of furniture (bed, computer desk, TV, 5 other tanks) so I can roll back the carpet to start some fans to dry the carpet to prevent mildew and mold. My roomie's girlfriend is doing laundry of all the towels I used and is picking up some aquarium silicone for me. An ad has been placed on Craig's List and freecycle for a wet/dry vac that will become a permanent fixture. Seems that just when you think you have the world by the tail you realize that it has you by the short hairs. Such is life.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: eskielists@...: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 10:30:01 -0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tonight was a pain in the 4$$... Likewise...but with 125 gallons of water :-(The room the fish tank was in was painted concrete (my "dog room") butit and the adjoining room had both been carpeted, THEN a wall wasbuilt to separate it into 2 rooms (by the previous owners, NOT us!)So when I ripped the carpet out of the dog room, I only cut as farunder the wall as I could reach. Which left a ragged edge that wickedwater very well apparently, as most of it ended up in there. Oh, andhave I mentioned that my hubby tolerates but doesn't love mytanks...and that the room most affected was his "man room" where hekeeps all his fun "guy stuff"...and that he is a guitar/ampcollector...ughh....Oh, and this happened the last day of our vacation so we got in at 5am after driving 16 hours straight to find it :-( Luckily myhousesitter had moved the fish to my isolation tank before he vacated,but he didn't know what else to do so he didn't. I thought for sureall the tanks were GONE, and I would have had to comply had any of thehubby most precious items been ruined but thank goodness they alldried with very minimal damage.I don't know if we got smart or lucky, but I sucked up what I couldwith the steam cleaner, then steam cleaned again with a dash of bleachin the water (don't try this at home, kids, it was desperation!), thenset up a borrowed dehumidifyer at full power for 1 1/2 weeks.Everything did dry out and the room smells cleaner than ever now...And I was allowed to keep all my tanks...just no new ones...and nonein that room :-)CarmenOn Feb 16, 2008 9:17 AM, Wendie <wendieo@...> wrote:>>>>>>> Been there done that twice! Once in the kitchen and once in the livingroom.> There's still a musty smell there. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25887	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

Glad things are under control! And six fish is easy :-) I really would recommend trying for a dehumidifyer as well, I think it was a major factor for us. I asked on Freecycle to get or borrow one and a super nice lady loaned me one. Carmen On Feb 16, 2008 11:02 AM, ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, it could have been worse. The tank that leaked only held six fish. > Had it been one of my fry growout tanks, I could have been trying to catch > over a hundred baby angels. Luckily my apartment is located above a > convenience store and the floor is 4' of concrete. Even if any water did > manage to leak downstairs it would have leaked into their beverage cooler. > All told I would estimate that about 30 gallons leaked before I stemmed the > flow. I managed to borrow a shop vac this morning and have so far vacuumed > up about 15 gallons from the carpet in my bedroom. Next I need to empty the > bedroom of furniture (bed, computer desk, TV, 5 other tanks) so I can roll > back the carpet to start some fans to dry the carpet to prevent mildew and > mold. > > My roomie's girlfriend is doing laundry of all the towels I used and is > picking up some aquarium silicone for me. An ad has been placed on Craig's > List and freecycle for a wet/dry vac that will become a permanent fixture.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25888	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

I tried posting on our local freecycle to borrow a dehumidifier but the local feminazi who is the owner of the site would not approve the message. Said that you cannot request to borrow something... She disallows 3 of every 4 posts I make. Somebody needs to run over her.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: eskielists@...: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:36:47 -0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tonight was a pain in the 4$$... Glad things are under control! And six fish is easy :-) I reallywould recommend trying for a dehumidifyer as well, I think it was amajor factor for us. I asked on Freecycle to get or borrow one and asuper nice lady loaned me one.CarmenOn Feb 16, 2008 11:02 AM, ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@...> wrote:>>>>>>>> Well, it could have been worse. The tank that leaked only held six fish.> Had it been one of my fry growout tanks, I could have been trying to catch> over a hundred baby angels. Luckily my apartment is located above a> convenience store and the floor is 4' of concrete. Even if any water did> manage to leak downstairs it would have leaked into their beverage cooler.> All told I would estimate that about 30 gallons leaked before I stemmed the> flow. I managed to borrow a shop vac this morning and have so far vacuumed> up about 15 gallons from the carpet in my bedroom. Next I need to empty the> bedroom of furniture (bed, computer desk, TV, 5 other tanks) so I can roll> back the carpet to start some fans to dry the carpet to prevent mildew and> mold.>> My roomie's girlfriend is doing laundry of all the towels I used and is> picking up some aquarium silicone for me. An ad has been placed on Craig's> List and freecycle for a wet/dry vac that will become a permanent fixture. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25889	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

I think that the issue of borrowing is forbidden on all freecycle lists since the freecycle people do not want to incur any liability in any way, real or imagined. And, I can't say I blame them. However, our local list has spawned a sister list that can be used for chatting, passing along information about local trades people, passing along coupons, etc. Borrowing items is allowed on this list, I believe. I have been fortunate, over the years, to never have a leaker such as is described here, though I have had minor leaks from time to time, where the water merely dribbled out. If you want some real fun, get a leak in a pond liner. Finding the leak can be a long process, though repairing it is a piece of cake. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ''Grey'' Greymane Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 11:40 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tonight was a pain in the 4$$... I tried posting on our local freecycle to borrow a dehumidifier but the local feminazi who is the owner of the site would not approve the message. Said that you cannot request to borrow something... She disallows 3 of every 4 posts I make. Somebody needs to run over her.Grey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25890	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

I actually did know that it wasn't allowed but I > > I tried posting on our local freecycle to borrow a dehumidifier but the > local feminazi who is the owner of the site would not approve the message. > Said that you cannot request to borrow something... She disallows 3 of every > 4 posts I make. Somebody needs to run over

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25891	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

I actually hid the "or borrow" in my "needed" post, figuring it might slip through. I don't think our list gets monitored all that much anyhow, and I figured I wasn't being watched since I post a fair amount, and they are usually good offers...I'm rather clutter-phobic :-) Carmen > > I think that the issue of borrowing is forbidden on all freecycle lists > since the freecycle people do not want to incur any liability in any > way, real or imagined. And, I can't say I blame them.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

You should ask if someone will "give" you one and then you can "give" it back to them when you are done. That way, you aren't "borrowing" it. ;-) (Sounds like someone else listens to Rush... "feminazi". LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ''Grey'' Greymane Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 10:40 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tonight was a pain in the 4$$... I tried posting on our local freecycle to borrow a dehumidifier but the local feminazi who is the owner of the site would not approve the message. Said that you cannot request to borrow something... She disallows 3 of every 4 posts I make. Somebody needs to run over her.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : eskielists@... <mailto:eskielists%40reskie.comDate> : Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:36:47 -0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tonight was a pain in the 4$$... Glad things are under control! And six fish is easy :-) I reallywould recommend trying for a dehumidifyer as well, I think it was amajor factor for us. I asked on Freecycle to get or borrow one and asuper nice lady loaned me one.CarmenOn Feb 16, 2008 11:02 AM, ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@... <mailto:huron62%40hotmail.com> > wrote:>>>>>>>> Well, it could have been worse. The tank that leaked only held six fish.> Had it been one of my fry growout tanks, I could have been trying to catch> over a hundred baby angels. Luckily my apartment is located above a> convenience store and the floor is 4' of concrete. Even if any water did> manage to leak downstairs it would have leaked into their beverage cooler.> All told I would estimate that about 30 gallons leaked before I stemmed the> flow. I managed to borrow a shop vac this morning and have so far vacuumed> up about 15 gallons from the carpet in my bedroom. Next I need to empty the> bedroom of furniture (bed, computer desk, TV, 5 other tanks) so I can roll> back the carpet to start some fans to dry the carpet to prevent mildew and> mold.>> My roomie's girlfriend is doing laundry of all the towels I used and is> picking up some aquarium silicone for me. An ad has been placed on Craig's> List and freecycle for a wet/dry vac that will become a permanent fixture. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.6/1282 - Release Date: 2/15/2008 7:08 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25893	From: arunkhinchi70	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Tonight was a pain in the 4$$...

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <huron62@...> wrote: > > My next investment will be a wet/dry vacuum. At 12:10 am as I was > perusing the messages here, I heard a noise that I recognized as one of > my HOT filters sucking air. I turned around and saw that one of my 55 > gallon tanks containing 5 adult angels and a plec was only half full > and water was all over the carpet in my bedroom. Water was leaking > rather quickly from one of the corner seams about 4 inches up from the > bottom. I grabbed every towel in the house and started soaking up the > water. I hooked up my python to drain the rest of the tank while I > transferred the fish to other tanks. It is now 3:40am and I have done > all that I can do tonight. This is NOT the way I had hoped to begin the > weekend. > > Tomorrow I will be hitting Lowe's and Home Depot to pick up a wet/dry > vacuum and some tubes of silicone. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25894	From: Blue fish	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: View latest videos of Marine animals

Videos of Blue water Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C434C565C414F425A445146445A515F4A ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C434C565C414F425A445146445A515F4A Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C434C565C414F425A445146445A515F49 Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25895	From: kathy	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

This is so weird, I got a call this morning from my son telling me that my 55 gallon REEF was leaking all over the floor. Luckily we have had many blowouts over the years and by the time I got home, my children had already brought the 33 gallon plastic trash can, three buckets, siphon hoses, towels, salt and the hundred gallon tank and stand in from the shed and were setting up the tank, they had caught the fish and siphoned most of the water and live rock into the 33 gallon trash can, added the heater and powerhead and fish and were waiting for me to get home to start the process of setting up and settling the 100 gallon. This was a 4 hour ordeal and I have to say, I am grateful for the many leaks, back flows and freakish blow outs over the years that has happened to my tanks over the years because it was not stressful and we all knew just what to do. And this time there wasn't any carpet to remove or clean, (that went out with the last blowout).I didn't loose any fish or corals, and will be watching the rocks to see if anything died from the very short exposure to the air. I haven't cleaned and checked the 55 yet to find the leak but from looking at the tank while getting the live sand and last of the water out I believe it is, Like yours, a blown seal near the bottom of the tank. So. I will quit rambling and leave you just a couple of words of wisdom: Keep plenty of extras on hand so you can set up at a moments notice, keep a clean trash can ready with hoses and buckets on hand and know that you are NEVER alone. And now you know the drill. KWells

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25896	From: Heather	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: can i send someone pics

i was told this fish that i have was a golden bottom feeder but when i search for it on the net it brings up nothing. I am on a pda and can only add pics as attachments so i am wondering if I can send them to someone and have you send them through to the group so they show in an email so I can try ti find out what this fish is?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25897	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Trying to send pics

Trying to find out what this fish is. I was told it was a golden bottom feeder but cannot find anything about a fish with that name. Help! ¤H3ATH3R¤ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25898	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: Trying to send pics

You should upload the pic to your own photo hosting site or you can upload it to the group photo page. You can't send it through the email to group members to protect people from "bad" photos. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 12:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Trying to send pics Trying to find out what this fish is. I was told it was a golden bottom feeder but cannot find anything about a fish with that name. Help! ¤H3ATH3R¤ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25899	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics

Send them to me and I'll upload them. goldlenny-at-gmail.com Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 12:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] can i send someone pics i was told this fish that i have was a golden bottom feeder but when i search for it on the net it brings up nothing. I am on a pda and can only add pics as attachments so i am wondering if I can send them to someone and have you send them through to the group so they show in an email so I can try ti find out what this fish is? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25900	From: harry perry	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this

Go to the group site, click on photos and create an album. It's easy. Harry Heather <lilredhd1@...> wrote: i was told this fish that i have was a golden bottom feeder but when i search for it on the net it brings up nothing. I am on a pda and can only add pics as attachments so i am wondering if I can send them to someone and have you send them through to the group so they show in an email so I can try ti find out what this fish is? Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25901	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this

Thanks harry but im on a pda/cellphone and it doesnt allow me to upload to the group. Lenny is going to do that for me! -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 12:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] can i send someone pics/Try this Go to the group site, click on photos and create an album. It's easy. Harry Heather <lilredhd1@...> wrote: i was told this fish that i have was a golden bottom feeder but when i search for it on the net it brings up nothing. I am on a pda and can only add pics as attachments so i am wondering if I can send them to someone and have you send them through to the group so they show in an email so I can try ti find out what this fish is? Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Messages in this topic (3) [The entire original message is not included] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this

Hi again Heather, I replied to your direct email also. It's a CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) but the correct common name should be Indian Algae Eater since they aren't really found in China. There is a golden variety http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html or http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri_2.php . They grow to 11" so you need a BIG tank to keep them long term. Here is the text from the Mongabay profile info since I'm not sure if you can see either of those websites from your PDA. Indian Algae Eater, Chinese Algae Eater, Sucking Loach Gyrinocheilus aymonieri Synonyms: Gyrinocheilus kasnakoi, Gyrinocheilops kasnakoi, Psilorhynchus aymonieri Physical description: An elongated fish with a flat belly profile. The mouth is located on the underside of the snout and is suction-cup shaped. The caudal fin is forked. The back is a copper-brown color, while the lower parts are silvery-white. A brown stripes extends from the snout, through the eye, and back to the caudal fin. Size/Length: To 11" (28 cm) in nature Similar species: None Habitat: Eastern India, Southeast Asia; Thailand S: bottom Aquarium: A 30" (76 cm) tank with a capacity of 20-30 gallons (75-114 L) is recommended for fish up to 4" (10 cm). Larger fish should be kept in larger tanks. Use strong lighting to promote the growth of algae. Use roots, wood, and rocks to provide hiding places. Tough plants can be used. Water chemistry: pH 6.5-8 (7.2), 5-20 dH (10), 75-82°F (24-28°C) Social behavior: A fish territorial towards others of its own species. Well suited as an algae eater for a community tank with larger fish. Suggested companions: Gouramis, Danios, Barbs, Loaches, Acaras, Angelfish, Eartheaters, Knifefish. FOOD: Algae; vegetables; spinach, lettuce; vegetable flakes, tablets; live; worms, crustaceans. SEX: Unknown, Some claim that males have more "thorns" around the mouth. Breeding techniques: Unsuccessful Breeding potential: 10. Breeding has not been successful. Remarks: In nature, fish have been observed spawning at the length of 5" (13 cm) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 12:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] can i send someone pics/Try this Thanks harry but im on a pda/cellphone and it doesnt allow me to upload to the group. Lenny is going to do that for me! -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 12:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] can i send someone pics/Try this Go to the group site, click on photos and create an album. It's easy. Harry Heather <lilredhd1@... <mailto:lilredhd1%40yahoo.com> > wrote: i was told this fish that i have was a golden bottom feeder but when i search for it on the net it brings up nothing. I am on a pda and can only add pics as attachments so i am wondering if I can send them to someone and have you send them through to the group so they show in an email so I can try ti find out what this fish is? Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Messages in this topic (3) [The entire original message is not included] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 12:00 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25903	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this

Heather, I uploaded them to the group to an album called Heathers Fish in case anyone else wants to see the pics to confirm my identification. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 12:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] can i send someone pics/Try this Go to the group site, click on photos and create an album. It's easy. Harry Heather <lilredhd1@... <mailto:lilredhd1%40yahoo.com> > wrote: i was told this fish that i have was a golden bottom feeder but when i search for it on the net it brings up nothing. I am on a pda and can only add pics as attachments so i am wondering if I can send them to someone and have you send them through to the group so they show in an email so I can try ti find out what this fish is? Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 12:00 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25904	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this

Yes we are now looking to get a 75 gallon. I wish I would have done more research on the fish I wanted instead of just relying on what mike (the fish guy) told us. We have 5 fish that get VERY big and the danios get bigger than we expected also. We are hoping we can find a tank and stand soon but until then I am doing 25% water changes every other day hoping that their growth is not effected before we find a larger tank. Thank you so much for all your help! -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] can i send someone pics/Try this Hi again Heather, I replied to your direct email also. It's a CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) but the correct common name should be Indian Algae Eater since they aren't really found in China. There is a golden variety http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html or http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri_2.php . They grow to 11" so you need a BIG tank to keep them long term. Here is the text from the Mongabay profile info since I'm not sure if you can see either of those websites from your PDA. Indian Algae Eater, Chinese Algae Eater, Sucking Loach Gyrinocheilus aymonieri Synonyms: Gyrinocheilus kasnakoi, Gyrinocheilops kasnakoi, Psilorhynchus aymonieri Physical description: An elongated fish with a flat belly profile. The mouth is located on the underside of the snout and is suction-cup shaped. The caudal fin is forked. The back is a copper-brown color, while the lower parts are silvery-white. A brown stripes extends from the snout, through the eye, and back to the caudal fin. Size/Length: To 11" (28 cm) in nature Similar species: None Habitat: Eastern India, Southeast Asia; Thailand S: bottom Aquarium: A 30" (76 cm) tank with a capacity of 20-30 ga [The entire original message is not included] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25905	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this

Maybe Mike, your fish guy was hoping you'd come back to him and buy the BIG tank, stand, etc., since he stuck you with all them BIG fish. Sometimes I think that pet stores actually conspire to get people into the hobby cheaply knowing they'll have to buy all new equipment after their initial investment. That's how I got started with a 10G Goldfish Starter System... talking about false advertising unless the word "starter" gets them off the hook because that's about all a 10G would be good for with goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] can i send someone pics/Try this Yes we are now looking to get a 75 gallon. I wish I would have done more research on the fish I wanted instead of just relying on what mike (the fish guy) told us. We have 5 fish that get VERY big and the danios get bigger than we expected also. We are hoping we can find a tank and stand soon but until then I am doing 25% water changes every other day hoping that their growth is not effected before we find a larger tank. Thank you so much for all your help! -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] can i send someone pics/Try this Hi again Heather, I replied to your direct email also. It's a CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) but the correct common name should be Indian Algae Eater since they aren't really found in China. There is a golden variety http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> or http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri_2.php <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri_2.php> . They grow to 11" so you need a BIG tank to keep them long term. Here is the text from the Mongabay profile info since I'm not sure if you can see either of those websites from your PDA. Indian Algae Eater, Chinese Algae Eater, Sucking Loach Gyrinocheilus aymonieri Synonyms: Gyrinocheilus kasnakoi, Gyrinocheilops kasnakoi, Psilorhynchus aymonieri Physical description: An elongated fish with a flat belly profile. The mouth is located on the underside of the snout and is suction-cup shaped. The caudal fin is forked. The back is a copper-brown color, while the lower parts are silvery-white. A brown stripes extends from the snout, through the eye, and back to the caudal fin. Size/Length: To 11" (28 cm) in nature Similar species: None Habitat: Eastern India, Southeast Asia; Thailand S: bottom Aquarium: A 30" (76 cm) tank with a capacity of 20-30 ga [The entire original message is not included] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25906	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/16/2008
Subject: Re: can i send someone pics/Try this

I agree with you on that. We wanted a larger tank eventually but wanted to be prepared for it by starting with a smaller tank but guess we are getting the larger one sooner than we thought. I am in a tiny town (just moved here from a large city a year ago) with no actual places that sell larger tanks. We do not even have a petsmart or the sort. So I guess I am going to have to go looking some where out of town this next week. Again thanks for all the help. By the way I can view most sites on my pda! :) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] can i send someone pics/Try this Maybe Mike, your fish guy was hoping you'd come back to him and buy the BIG tank, stand, etc., since he stuck you with all them BIG fish. Sometimes I think that pet stores actually conspire to get people into the hobby cheaply knowing they'll have to buy all new equipment after their initial investment. That's how I got started with a 10G Goldfish Starter System... talking about false advertising unless the word "starter" gets them off the hook because that's about all a 10G would be good for with goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] can i send someone pics/Try this Yes we are now looking to get a 75 gallon. I wish I would have done more research on the fish I wanted instead of just relying on what mike (the fish guy) told us. We have 5 fish that get VERY big and the danios get bigger than we expected also. We are hoping we can find a tank and stand soon but until then I am doing 25% water changes every o [The entire original message is not included] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25907	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

I'm wondering why you have so many leaks and blowouts; it's not normal. are the tanks level? Sometimes when the tanks are on an upper fooor in a house the floor will bend a little when someione walks near the tanks and i suppose that could cause a leak. The only reason i am asking is that i have only had one small leak in probably 30 years of fishkeeping, and probably 30 different tanks including hexes, bow fronts and larg-ish (150 gal tanks). has anyone else had a lot of bad experiences? ----- Original Message ----- From: kathy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 10:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim This is so weird, I got a call this morning from my son telling me that my 55 gallon REEF was leaking all over the floor. Luckily we have had many blowouts over the years and by the time I got home, my children had already brought the 33 gallon plastic trash can, three buckets, siphon hoses, towels, salt and the hundred gallon tank and stand in from the shed and were setting up the tank, they had caught the fish and siphoned most of the water and live rock into the 33 gallon trash can, added the heater and powerhead and fish and were waiting for me to get home to start the process of setting up and settling the 100 gallon. This was a 4 hour ordeal and I have to say, I am grateful for the many leaks, back flows and freakish blow outs over the years that has happened to my tanks over the years because it was not stressful and we all knew just what to do. And this time there wasn't any carpet to remove or clean, (that went out with the last blowout).I didn't loose any fish or corals, and will be watching the rocks to see if anything died from the very short exposure to the air. I haven't cleaned and checked the 55 yet to find the leak but from looking at the tank while getting the live sand and last of the water out I believe it is, Like yours, a blown seal near the bottom of the tank. So. I will quit rambling and leave you just a couple of words of wisdom: Keep plenty of extras on hand so you can set up at a moments notice, keep a clean trash can ready with hoses and buckets on hand and know that you are NEVER alone. And now you know the drill. KWells [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25908	From: kathy wells	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

Hi, This is the first and only tank leak I've ever had. The last was protien skimmer went crazy and overflowed , before that was power outage and backflow from the sump because of buildup in the suction break, and another was a blown gasket (it was about 15 yrs old) I should have replaced it. Just dumb luck I guess. Kevin E Boyle <kvnbyl@...> wrote: I'm wondering why you have so many leaks and blowouts; it's not normal. are the tanks level? Sometimes when the tanks are on an upper fooor in a house the floor will bend a little when someione walks near the tanks and i suppose that could cause a leak. The only reason i am asking is that i have only had one small leak in probably 30 years of fishkeeping, and probably 30 different tanks including hexes, bow fronts and larg-ish (150 gal tanks). has anyone else had a lot of bad experiences? ----- Original Message ----- From: kathy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 10:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim This is so weird, I got a call this morning from my son telling me that my 55 gallon REEF was leaking all over the floor. Luckily we have had many blowouts over the years and by the time I got home, my children had already brought the 33 gallon plastic trash can, three buckets, siphon hoses, towels, salt and the hundred gallon tank and stand in from the shed and were setting up the tank, they had caught the fish and siphoned most of the water and live rock into the 33 gallon trash can, added the heater and powerhead and fish and were waiting for me to get home to start the process of setting up and settling the 100 gallon. This was a 4 hour ordeal and I have to say, I am grateful for the many leaks, back flows and freakish blow outs over the years that has happened to my tanks over the years because it was not stressful and we all knew just what to do. And this time there wasn't any carpet to remove or clean, (that went out with the last blowout).I didn't loose any fish or corals, and will be watching the rocks to see if anything died from the very short exposure to the air. I haven't cleaned and checked the 55 yet to find the leak but from looking at the tank while getting the live sand and last of the water out I believe it is, Like yours, a blown seal near the bottom of the tank. So. I will quit rambling and leave you just a couple of words of wisdom: Keep plenty of extras on hand so you can set up at a moments notice, keep a clean trash can ready with hoses and buckets on hand and know that you are NEVER alone. And now you know the drill. KWells [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25909	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: What happened to 4 neons at once?

My sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal 10 gallon filtration and heating system (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. What could have happend to them? TIA, -Cheryl :D

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25910	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

Did anyone say "sushi"? It's probably Darwinism at work.. survival of the fittest. Or they could have not been properly acclimated and died from shock and then they were eaten by one or more of the fish. The tetras could be carnivores and the "algae eater" are often omnivores and like a little meat with their veggies too. Tell your sister she has enough fish in her 10G tank and is likely way overstocked depending on what kind of "algae eater" she has. Go to my blog and I have a long article on proper stocking suggestions for a 10G tank.. it's called "Haley's 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions". Print it out and tell your sister to try and follow those guidelines. She also needs to find out what kind of algae eater she has since only an oto would be suitable for a 10G tank and they should be kept in shoals of five or more but then she wouldn't be able to have any other fish. Also, most of the tetras should usually be kept in schools of six or more but a 10G isn't large enough for full schools of many fish so she needs to stick with fish that stay smaller... 2" or less. Also, I don't think there is a "high fin black tetra". There are long finned black skirt tetras... tell her to check the profile on that to see if that is what she has. These grow to 2.5" and a school of these would be too much for a 10G. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile40.html http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/chariciforms/blackskirtt etra.html I also do not know of a "red fin tetra". Here is the profile on a Flame Tetra aka Red Tetra. See if this is what she has. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_flammeus.html Molly's grow 4" to 6" and are too big for a 10G tank also. Here's a page about livebearers. http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of my_cycling Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 3:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? My sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal 10 gallon filtration and heating system (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. What could have happend to them? TIA, -Cheryl :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 2:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25911	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

Hi Lenny, In my personal experience the Dalmatian Mollies are more aggressive than other Mollies. I had a mix of Mollies in a tank and the Dalmatians harassed every fish in the tank. I don't mean balloon mollies that can't compete with the more normal body shapes. I had green Sailfins mixed in the tank and they got harassed as well. Later I moved the Dalmatians in with a couple of Auratus cichlids which themselves I think are the spawn of Satan and they held their own. YMMV -Mike In a message dated 2/17/2008 2:12:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Molly's grow 4" to 6" and are too big for a 10G tank also. Here's a page about livebearers. http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25912	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

I have had the same issue. My 44 corner reef sprung a leek at 10pm at night. i ran to wal-mart got a 55 kit with stand and stayed up all night setting it up. man was i tired, but it was worth saving the little guys. ----- Original Message ---- From: kathy <kattfish4050@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 10:06:05 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim This is so weird, I got a call this morning from my son telling me that my 55 gallon REEF was leaking all over the floor. Luckily we have had many blowouts over the years and by the time I got home, my children had already brought the 33 gallon plastic trash can, three buckets, siphon hoses, towels, salt and the hundred gallon tank and stand in from the shed and were setting up the tank, they had caught the fish and siphoned most of the water and live rock into the 33 gallon trash can, added the heater and powerhead and fish and were waiting for me to get home to start the process of setting up and settling the 100 gallon. This was a 4 hour ordeal and I have to say, I am grateful for the many leaks, back flows and freakish blow outs over the years that has happened to my tanks over the years because it was not stressful and we all knew just what to do. And this time there wasn't any carpet to remove or clean, (that went out with the last blowout).I didn't loose any fish or corals, and will be watching the rocks to see if anything died from the very short exposure to the air. I haven't cleaned and checked the 55 yet to find the leak but from looking at the tank while getting the live sand and last of the water out I believe it is, Like yours, a blown seal near the bottom of the tank. So. I will quit rambling and leave you just a couple of words of wisdom: Keep plenty of extras on hand so you can set up at a moments notice, keep a clean trash can ready with hoses and buckets on hand and know that you are NEVER alone. And now you know the drill. KWells ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25913	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

With all the problems people are having, I am sure it must be an Islamic terrorist plot. Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: alien8mipussy@...: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:48:56 -0800Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim I have had the same issue. My 44 corner reef sprung a leek at 10pm at night. i ran to wal-mart got a 55 kit with stand and stayed up all night setting it up. man was i tired, but it was worth saving the little guys.----- Original Message ----From: kathy <kattfish4050@...>To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 10:06:05 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ JimThis is so weird, I got a call this morning from my son telling methat my 55 gallon REEF was leaking all over the floor. Luckily we havehad many blowouts over the years and by the time I got home, mychildren had already brought the 33 gallon plastic trash can, threebuckets, siphon hoses, towels, salt and the hundred gallon tank andstand in from the shed and were setting up the tank, they had caughtthe fish and siphoned most of the water and live rock into the 33gallon trash can, added the heater and powerhead and fish and werewaiting for me to get home to start the process of setting up andsettling the 100 gallon. This was a 4 hour ordeal and I have to say, Iam grateful for the many leaks, back flows and freakish blow outs overthe years that has happened to my tanks over the years because it wasnot stressful and we all knew just what to do. And this time therewasn't any carpet to remove or clean, (that went out with the lastblowout).I didn't loose any fish or corals, and will be watching therocks to see if anything died from the very short exposure to the air.I haven't cleaned and checked the 55 yet to find the leak but fromlooking at the tank while getting the live sand and last of the waterout I believe it is, Like yours, a blown seal near the bottom of thetank. So. I will quit rambling and leave you just a couple of words ofwisdom:Keep plenty of extras on hand so you can set up at a moments notice,keep a clean trash can ready with hoses and buckets on hand and knowthat you are NEVER alone. And now you know the drill. KWells __________________________________________________________Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25914	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

Uh Oh Grey... they're gonna put a fatwa out on you now! ;-) That's not a round bodied goldfish swimming up to you.. it's a "feeder" wearing a suicide vest. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ''Grey'' Greymane Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:00 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim With all the problems people are having, I am sure it must be an (radical) Islamic terrorist plot. Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : alien8mipussy@... <mailto:alien8mipussy%40yahoo.comDate> : Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:48:56 -0800Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim I have had the same issue. My 44 corner reef sprung a leek at 10pm at night. i ran to wal-mart got a 55 kit with stand and stayed up all night setting it up. man was i tired, but it was worth saving the little guys.----- Original Message ----From: kathy <kattfish4050@... <mailto:kattfish4050%40yahoo.com> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSent <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSent> : Saturday, February 16, 2008 10:06:05 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ JimThis is so weird, I got a call this morning from my son telling methat my 55 gallon REEF was leaking all over the floor. Luckily we havehad many blowouts over the years and by the time I got home, mychildren had already brought the 33 gallon plastic trash can, threebuckets, siphon hoses, towels, salt and the hundred gallon tank andstand in from the shed and were setting up the tank, they had caughtthe fish and siphoned most of the water and live rock into the 33gallon trash can, added the heater and powerhead and fish and werewaiting for me to get home to start the process of setting up andsettling the 100 gallon. This was a 4 hour ordeal and I have to say, Iam grateful for the many leaks, back flows and freakish blow outs overthe years that has happened to my tanks over the years because it wasnot stressful and we all knew just what to do. And this time therewasn't any carpet to remove or clean, (that went out with the lastblowout).I didn't loose any fish or corals, and will be watching therocks to see if anything died from the very short exposure to the air.I haven't cleaned and checked the 55 yet to find the leak but fromlooking at the tank while getting the live sand and last of the waterout I believe it is, Like yours, a blown seal near the bottom of thetank. So. I will quit rambling and leave you just a couple of words ofwisdom:Keep plenty of extras on hand so you can set up at a moments notice,keep a clean trash can ready with hoses and buckets on hand and knowthat you are NEVER alone. And now you know the drill. KWells __________________________________________________________Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 2:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25915	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

Well if it's an albino clawed frog(which I can almost guarantee it is) then they are voracious. They'll eat ANYTHING they can get in their mouth which, when your sister's gets bigger, will probably include every fish in the tank. I'd be willing to bet your sisters frog is a little fatter these days. Sorry about the loss. Kate my_cycling <my_cycling@...> wrote: My sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal 10 gallon filtration and heating system (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. What could have happend to them? TIA, -Cheryl :D --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25916	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

Ooops. I missed the frog when I replied earlier. Yep, your sister definitely needs to find out exactly, and study up on, what she is adding to her tank. She should stick to that 10G stocking list that I gave you in my earlier reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Well if it's an albino clawed frog(which I can almost guarantee it is) then they are voracious. They'll eat ANYTHING they can get in their mouth which, when your sister's gets bigger, will probably include every fish in the tank. I'd be willing to bet your sisters frog is a little fatter these days. Sorry about the loss. Kate my_cycling <my_cycling@... <mailto:my_cycling%40yahoo.com> > wrote: My sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal 10 gallon filtration and heating system (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. What could have happend to them? TIA, -Cheryl :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 2:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25917	From: kathy wells	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

LOL Lenny and Grey, I wonder why it only happens at night or while we are out of town? Maybe the water world is getting it's revenge??? marsha wilburn <alien8mipussy@...> wrote: I have had the same issue. My 44 corner reef sprung a leek at 10pm at night. i ran to wal-mart got a 55 kit with stand and stayed up all night setting it up. man was i tired, but it was worth saving the little guys. ----- Original Message ---- From: kathy <kattfish4050@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 10:06:05 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim This is so weird, I got a call this morning from my son telling me that my 55 gallon REEF was leaking all over the floor. Luckily we have had many blowouts over the years and by the time I got home, my children had already brought the 33 gallon plastic trash can, three buckets, siphon hoses, towels, salt and the hundred gallon tank and stand in from the shed and were setting up the tank, they had caught the fish and siphoned most of the water and live rock into the 33 gallon trash can, added the heater and powerhead and fish and were waiting for me to get home to start the process of setting up and settling the 100 gallon. This was a 4 hour ordeal and I have to say, I am grateful for the many leaks, back flows and freakish blow outs over the years that has happened to my tanks over the years because it was not stressful and we all knew just what to do. And this time there wasn't any carpet to remove or clean, (that went out with the last blowout).I didn't loose any fish or corals, and will be watching the rocks to see if anything died from the very short exposure to the air. I haven't cleaned and checked the 55 yet to find the leak but from looking at the tank while getting the live sand and last of the water out I believe it is, Like yours, a blown seal near the bottom of the tank. So. I will quit rambling and leave you just a couple of words of wisdom: Keep plenty of extras on hand so you can set up at a moments notice, keep a clean trash can ready with hoses and buckets on hand and know that you are NEVER alone. And now you know the drill. KWells __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25918	From: blclcc1	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

I had to put my albino frogs in a tank of their own......they will eat anything! They probably chowed down on the neons. Lauri ----- Original Message ----- From: "my_cycling" <my_cycling@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 3:01 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? My sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal 10 gallon filtration and heating system (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. What could have happend to them? TIA, -Cheryl :D Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25919	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

Hi Lenny I am not looking to pick a fight, but I have read your e-mails for the past year or more and you actually discourage more potential fish keepers than you encourage, You are what I call a computer fish keeper. Your theory is great and you are knowledgeable,but as far as your concerned most of us should not consider keeping fish as a hobby, I have been keeping fish since the 1960's and have had fish rooms consisting of several thousand gallons and have bred all kinds of fish. I have kept both salt and freshwater fish, although my concentration has been in keeping African Cichlids. When I tell you that I have a 75 gallon tank with 24 Africans, I'm sure you would say I am way over stocked and you are probably right. However I think the key is are my fish "HAPPY" and I think they are. I loose a bout one fish a year. Your theory of Fish keeping is great, but most people that ask questions are looking for help. They don't want to be told that they don't belong in the hobby or that they should get rid of all the fish that their LFS sold to them. How about telling them that if the fish's fins are fully extended, then the fish are happy Let's spend our time trying to encourage people to this great hobby, instead of telling them that they are doing the wrong thing. Sorry for the "Soap Box", but I am a serious fish keeper. I think the answer I once heard to the question? What is the difference between a amateur and a professional fish keeper? The price of the fish we kill. Says it all. John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Ooops. I missed the frog when I replied earlier. Yep, your sister definitely needs to find out exactly, and study up on, what she is adding to her tank. She should stick to that 10G stocking list that I gave you in my earlier reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Well if it's an albino clawed frog(which I can almost guarantee it is) then they are voracious. They'll eat ANYTHING they can get in their mouth which, when your sister's gets bigger, will probably include every fish in the tank. I'd be willing to bet your sisters frog is a little fatter these days. Sorry about the loss. Kate my_cycling > wrote: My sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal 10 gallon filtration and heating system (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. What could have happend to them? TIA, -Cheryl :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 2:16 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25920	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

I was going to give a long answer but I guess I'll just go buy a common pleco and stick it in a 10G tank and if he appears to be "HAPPY", then I'm doing a good job. I won't care what everyone says about the fact that they should grow as long as the tank. My fish store said that fish only grow to the size of the tank they are stuck in so he'll only grow to 4" or so and only live for five or so years but heck.. I think he's "HAPPY" and that's all that matters. The truth is people go through the effort of finding this forum and joining so they can ask questions about what they are doing to find out if it is right or wrong. If they wanted a yes-man, they could just keep getting advice from their local fish store or pet store employees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Hi Lenny I am not looking to pick a fight, but I have read your e-mails for the past year or more and you actually discourage more potential fish keepers than you encourage, You are what I call a computer fish keeper. Your theory is great and you are knowledgeable,but as far as your concerned most of us should not consider keeping fish as a hobby, I have been keeping fish since the 1960's and have had fish rooms consisting of several thousand gallons and have bred all kinds of fish. I have kept both salt and freshwater fish, although my concentration has been in keeping African Cichlids. When I tell you that I have a 75 gallon tank with 24 Africans, I'm sure you would say I am way over stocked and you are probably right. However I think the key is are my fish "HAPPY" and I think they are. I loose a bout one fish a year. Your theory of Fish keeping is great, but most people that ask questions are looking for help. They don't want to be told that they don't belong in the hobby or that they should get rid of all the fish that their LFS sold to them. How about telling them that if the fish's fins are fully extended, then the fish are happy Let's spend our time trying to encourage people to this great hobby, instead of telling them that they are doing the wrong thing. Sorry for the "Soap Box", but I am a serious fish keeper. I think the answer I once heard to the question? What is the difference between a amateur and a professional fish keeper? The price of the fish we kill. Says it all. John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: Ooops. I missed the frog when I replied earlier. Yep, your sister definitely needs to find out exactly, and study up on, what she is adding to her tank. She should stick to that 10G stocking list that I gave you in my earlier reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Well if it's an albino clawed frog(which I can almost guarantee it is) then they are voracious. They'll eat ANYTHING they can get in their mouth which, when your sister's gets bigger, will probably include every fish in the tank. I'd be willing to bet your sisters frog is a little fatter these days. Sorry about the loss. Kate my_cycling > wrote: My sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal 10 gallon filtration and heating system (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. What could have happend to them? TIA, -Cheryl :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 2:16 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 2:16 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 2:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25921	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 2/17/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

Lenny As I said I was not looking for a fight. I agree that the Local Fish Stores are giving people a lot of Miss-info, however we should look to offer help, not turn them away from the hobby. Using your Theory, no one should ever own a common pleco unless they have a large tank. In theory this is great, however we both know this is not so and never will happen. So what we should do is try to help people keep these fish alive as long as possible. While I know you mean the best, you are scaring people away from fish keeping. I am not disagreeing with you. However many of us have been able to keep fish healthy and happy, while breaking some of the "RULES". Many of the people just entering the hobby would not be happy keeping a single pleco in a 55 gallon tank. Many of these people are keeping display tanks in their Living Rooms and are looking for color and flair. All I was saying was "Please stop scaring people away" John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I was going to give a long answer but I guess I'll just go buy a common pleco and stick it in a 10G tank and if he appears to be "HAPPY", then I'm doing a good job. I won't care what everyone says about the fact that they should grow as long as the tank. My fish store said that fish only grow to the size of the tank they are stuck in so he'll only grow to 4" or so and only live for five or so years but heck.. I think he's "HAPPY" and that's all that matters. The truth is people go through the effort of finding this forum and joining so they can ask questions about what they are doing to find out if it is right or wrong. If they wanted a yes-man, they could just keep getting advice from their local fish store or pet store employees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Hi Lenny I am not looking to pick a fight, but I have read your e-mails for the past year or more and you actually discourage more potential fish keepers than you encourage, You are what I call a computer fish keeper. Your theory is great and you are knowledgeable,but as far as your concerned most of us should not consider keeping fish as a hobby, I have been keeping fish since the 1960's and have had fish rooms consisting of several thousand gallons and have bred all kinds of fish. I have kept both salt and freshwater fish, although my concentration has been in keeping African Cichlids. When I tell you that I have a 75 gallon tank with 24 Africans, I'm sure you would say I am way over stocked and you are probably right. However I think the key is are my fish "HAPPY" and I think they are. I loose a bout one fish a year. Your theory of Fish keeping is great, but most people that ask questions are looking for help. They don't want to be told that they don't belong in the hobby or that they should get rid of all the fish that their LFS sold to them. How about telling them that if the fish's fins are fully extended, then the fish are happy Let's spend our time trying to encourage people to this great hobby, instead of telling them that they are doing the wrong thing. Sorry for the "Soap Box", but I am a serious fish keeper. I think the answer I once heard to the question? What is the difference between a amateur and a professional fish keeper? The price of the fish we kill. Says it all. John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: Ooops. I missed the frog when I replied earlier. Yep, your sister definitely needs to find out exactly, and study up on, what she is adding to her tank. She should stick to that 10G stocking list that I gave you in my earlier reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Well if it's an albino clawed frog(which I can almost guarantee it is) then they are voracious. They'll eat ANYTHING they can get in their mouth which, when your sister's gets bigger, will probably include every fish in the tank. I'd be willing to bet your sisters frog is a little fatter these days. Sorry about the loss. Kate my_cycling > wrote: My sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal 10 gallon filtration and heating system (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. What could have happend to them? TIA, -Cheryl :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 2:16 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 2:16 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 2:16 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25922	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

I'm not fighting with you... I'm simply stating facts. It's not a fight if you think the sky is green because someone told you it was and then I tell you plain and simple that it's blue (unless there's a cloud cover). You can either trust me, research what I told you or go on believing what you want. I'm sorry you got into the hobby 60 years ago and got bad advice from people that didn't know any better... just like I didn't know any better when I first got started and got lots of bad advice... but now that we do know better, we shouldn't condone people making the same ignorant mistakes you or I made when we first started. And yes... nobody should stick a fish that is supposed to grow to over 18" in a small 10G tank and even your example of a 55G isn't big enough for a permanent home for a common pleco but it's 550% better than sticking them in a 10G tank and a 55G is fine for the first year or so. If they want a small algae eating catfish, get a shoal of oto's. If they want a common pleco, get a 6' long BIG tank for a permanent long term home for the next 20 years or arrange with their LFS to trade the little guy in every six to 12 months if they have a 55G... but don't put a common pleco in a 10G tank. And as far as breaking some of the "RULES", that's like telling Michael Vick... it's OK if you only kill one dog a year and it's OK to keep your dogs in little cages between their fights as long as you clean their little cages on a weekly basis. Sorry but I'm not going to say it's OK to mistreat any pet. And intentionally or ignorantly putting a large fish in a small tank is mistreating it whether you like it or not. When you don't know any better, it may not be your fault but when they come to a forum and ask for help, they need to get the proper information, not some feel-good gobblygook. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 1:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Lenny As I said I was not looking for a fight. I agree that the Local Fish Stores are giving people a lot of Miss-info, however we should look to offer help, not turn them away from the hobby. Using your Theory, no one should ever own a common pleco unless they have a large tank. In theory this is great, however we both know this is not so and never will happen. So what we should do is try to help people keep these fish alive as long as possible. While I know you mean the best, you are scaring people away from fish keeping. I am not disagreeing with you. However many of us have been able to keep fish healthy and happy, while breaking some of the "RULES". Many of the people just entering the hobby would not be happy keeping a single pleco in a 55 gallon tank. Many of these people are keeping display tanks in their Living Rooms and are looking for color and flair. All I was saying was "Please stop scaring people away" John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: I was going to give a long answer but I guess I'll just go buy a common pleco and stick it in a 10G tank and if he appears to be "HAPPY", then I'm doing a good job. I won't care what everyone says about the fact that they should grow as long as the tank. My fish store said that fish only grow to the size of the tank they are stuck in so he'll only grow to 4" or so and only live for five or so years but heck.. I think he's "HAPPY" and that's all that matters. The truth is people go through the effort of finding this forum and joining so they can ask questions about what they are doing to find out if it is right or wrong. If they wanted a yes-man, they could just keep getting advice from their local fish store or pet store employees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Hi Lenny I am not looking to pick a fight, but I have read your e-mails for the past year or more and you actually discourage more potential fish keepers than you encourage, You are what I call a computer fish keeper. Your theory is great and you are knowledgeable,but as far as your concerned most of us should not consider keeping fish as a hobby, I have been keeping fish since the 1960's and have had fish rooms consisting of several thousand gallons and have bred all kinds of fish. I have kept both salt and freshwater fish, although my concentration has been in keeping African Cichlids. When I tell you that I have a 75 gallon tank with 24 Africans, I'm sure you would say I am way over stocked and you are probably right. However I think the key is are my fish "HAPPY" and I think they are. I loose a bout one fish a year. Your theory of Fish keeping is great, but most people that ask questions are looking for help. They don't want to be told that they don't belong in the hobby or that they should get rid of all the fish that their LFS sold to them. How about telling them that if the fish's fins are fully extended, then the fish are happy Let's spend our time trying to encourage people to this great hobby, instead of telling them that they are doing the wrong thing. Sorry for the "Soap Box", but I am a serious fish keeper. I think the answer I once heard to the question? What is the difference between a amateur and a professional fish keeper? The price of the fish we kill. Says it all. John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: Ooops. I missed the frog when I replied earlier. Yep, your sister definitely needs to find out exactly, and study up on, what she is adding to her tank. She should stick to that 10G stocking list that I gave you in my earlier reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Well if it's an albino clawed frog(which I can almost guarantee it is) then they are voracious. They'll eat ANYTHING they can get in their mouth which, when your sister's gets bigger, will probably include every fish in the tank. I'd be willing to bet your sisters frog is a little fatter these days. Sorry about the loss. Kate my_cycling > wrote: My sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal 10 gallon filtration and heating system (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. What could have happend to them? TIA, -Cheryl :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25923	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

I never would condone mistreating any animal from a fish to a dog/cat or other animal. But stop and think for a moment, if no hobbyist bought the common pleco, how many would die in the local pet stores, because they are being kept in 10/5 gal tanks. Looking at it your way isn't a lot more humane to have a pleco that is being cared for, then one that is left to die in the local pet shop. Looking at it from a totally humane way it is better if we do not keep any fish at all and they remain in their natural habitat in the oceans or lakes. We both know that will not happen so we should try to give them the best possible home we can, whatever that might be. John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I'm not fighting with you... I'm simply stating facts. It's not a fight if you think the sky is green because someone told you it was and then I tell you plain and simple that it's blue (unless there's a cloud cover). You can either trust me, research what I told you or go on believing what you want. I'm sorry you got into the hobby 60 years ago and got bad advice from people that didn't know any better... just like I didn't know any better when I first got started and got lots of bad advice... but now that we do know better, we shouldn't condone people making the same ignorant mistakes you or I made when we first started. And yes... nobody should stick a fish that is supposed to grow to over 18" in a small 10G tank and even your example of a 55G isn't big enough for a permanent home for a common pleco but it's 550% better than sticking them in a 10G tank and a 55G is fine for the first year or so. If they want a small algae eating catfish, get a shoal of oto's. If they want a common pleco, get a 6' long BIG tank for a permanent long term home for the next 20 years or arrange with their LFS to trade the little guy in every six to 12 months if they have a 55G... but don't put a common pleco in a 10G tank. And as far as breaking some of the "RULES", that's like telling Michael Vick... it's OK if you only kill one dog a year and it's OK to keep your dogs in little cages between their fights as long as you clean their little cages on a weekly basis. Sorry but I'm not going to say it's OK to mistreat any pet. And intentionally or ignorantly putting a large fish in a small tank is mistreating it whether you like it or not. When you don't know any better, it may not be your fault but when they come to a forum and ask for help, they need to get the proper information, not some feel-good gobblygook. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 1:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Lenny As I said I was not looking for a fight. I agree that the Local Fish Stores are giving people a lot of Miss-info, however we should look to offer help, not turn them away from the hobby. Using your Theory, no one should ever own a common pleco unless they have a large tank. In theory this is great, however we both know this is not so and never will happen. So what we should do is try to help people keep these fish alive as long as possible. While I know you mean the best, you are scaring people away from fish keeping. I am not disagreeing with you. However many of us have been able to keep fish healthy and happy, while breaking some of the "RULES". Many of the people just entering the hobby would not be happy keeping a single pleco in a 55 gallon tank. Many of these people are keeping display tanks in their Living Rooms and are looking for color and flair. All I was saying was "Please stop scaring people away" John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > wrote: I was going to give a long answer but I guess I'll just go buy a common pleco and stick it in a 10G tank and if he appears to be "HAPPY", then I'm doing a good job. I won't care what everyone says about the fact that they should grow as long as the tank. My fish store said that fish only grow to the size of the tank they are stuck in so he'll only grow to 4" or so and only live for five or so years but heck.. I think he's "HAPPY" and that's all that matters. The truth is people go through the effort of finding this forum and joining so they can ask questions about what they are doing to find out if it is right or wrong. If they wanted a yes-man, they could just keep getting advice from their local fish store or pet store employees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Hi Lenny I am not looking to pick a fight, but I have read your e-mails for the past year or more and you actually discourage more potential fish keepers than you encourage, You are what I call a computer fish keeper. Your theory is great and you are knowledgeable,but as far as your concerned most of us should not consider keeping fish as a hobby, I have been keeping fish since the 1960's and have had fish rooms consisting of several thousand gallons and have bred all kinds of fish. I have kept both salt and freshwater fish, although my concentration has been in keeping African Cichlids. When I tell you that I have a 75 gallon tank with 24 Africans, I'm sure you would say I am way over stocked and you are probably right. However I think the key is are my fish "HAPPY" and I think they are. I loose a bout one fish a year. Your theory of Fish keeping is great, but most people that ask questions are looking for help. They don't want to be told that they don't belong in the hobby or that they should get rid of all the fish that their LFS sold to them. How about telling them that if the fish's fins are fully extended, then the fish are happy Let's spend our time trying to encourage people to this great hobby, instead of telling them that they are doing the wrong thing. Sorry for the "Soap Box", but I am a serious fish keeper. I think the answer I once heard to the question? What is the difference between a amateur and a professional fish keeper? The price of the fish we kill. Says it all. John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > wrote: Ooops. I missed the frog when I replied earlier. Yep, your sister definitely needs to find out exactly, and study up on, what she is adding to her tank. She should stick to that 10G stocking list that I gave you in my earlier reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Well if it's an albino clawed frog(which I can almost guarantee it is) then they are voracious. They'll eat ANYTHING they can get in their mouth which, when your sister's gets bigger, will probably include every fish in the tank. I'd be willing to bet your sisters frog is a little fatter these days. Sorry about the loss. Kate my_cycling > wrote: My sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal 10 gallon filtration and heating system (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. What could have happend to them? TIA, -Cheryl :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 12:00 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25924	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

John, If no one bought common plecos, yes, a bunch would initially die in the shops, but, since they would not sell, no shop would carry them. They would not disappear from the hobby, since there still would be a limited availability, but most of those who would have access to them would understand their needs and be able to supply what they need. However, we both know that that scenario will never come to pass, so it is pretty much a specious argument. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? I never would condone mistreating any animal from a fish to a dog/cat or other animal. But stop and think for a moment, if no hobbyist bought the common pleco, how many would die in the local pet stores, because they are being kept in 10/5 gal tanks. Looking at it your way isn't a lot more humane to have a pleco that is being cared for, then one that is left to die in the local pet shop. Looking at it from a totally humane way it is better if we do not keep any fish at all and they remain in their natural habitat in the oceans or lakes. We both know that will not happen so we should try to give them the best possible home we can, whatever that might be. John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I'm not fighting with you... I'm simply stating facts. It's not a fight if you think the sky is green because someone told you it was and then I tell you plain and simple that it's blue (unless there's a cloud cover). You can either trust me, research what I told you or go on believing what you want. I'm sorry you got into the hobby 60 years ago and got bad advice from people that didn't know any better... just like I didn't know any better when I first got started and got lots of bad advice... but now that we do know better, we shouldn't condone people making the same ignorant mistakes you or I made when we first started. And yes... nobody should stick a fish that is supposed to grow to over 18" in a small 10G tank and even your example of a 55G isn't big enough for a permanent home for a common pleco but it's 550% better than sticking them in a 10G tank and a 55G is fine for the first year or so. If they want a small algae eating catfish, get a shoal of oto's. If they want a common pleco, get a 6' long BIG tank for a permanent long term home for the next 20 years or arrange with their LFS to trade the little guy in every six to 12 months if they have a 55G... but don't put a common pleco in a 10G tank. And as far as breaking some of the "RULES", that's like telling Michael Vick... it's OK if you only kill one dog a year and it's OK to keep your dogs in little cages between their fights as long as you clean their little cages on a weekly basis. Sorry but I'm not going to say it's OK to mistreat any pet. And intentionally or ignorantly putting a large fish in a small tank is mistreating it whether you like it or not. When you don't know any better, it may not be your fault but when they come to a forum and ask for help, they need to get the proper information, not some feel-good gobblygook. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 1:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Lenny As I said I was not looking for a fight. I agree that the Local Fish Stores are giving people a lot of Miss-info, however we should look to offer help, not turn them away from the hobby. Using your Theory, no one should ever own a common pleco unless they have a large tank. In theory this is great, however we both know this is not so and never will happen. So what we should do is try to help people keep these fish alive as long as possible. While I know you mean the best, you are scaring people away from fish keeping. I am not disagreeing with you. However many of us have been able to keep fish healthy and happy, while breaking some of the "RULES". Many of the people just entering the hobby would not be happy keeping a single pleco in a 55 gallon tank. Many of these people are keeping display tanks in their Living Rooms and are looking for color and flair. All I was saying was "Please stop scaring people away" John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > wrote: I was going to give a long answer but I guess I'll just go buy a common pleco and stick it in a 10G tank and if he appears to be "HAPPY", then I'm doing a good job. I won't care what everyone says about the fact that they should grow as long as the tank. My fish store said that fish only grow to the size of the tank they are stuck in so he'll only grow to 4" or so and only live for five or so years but heck.. I think he's "HAPPY" and that's all that matters. The truth is people go through the effort of finding this forum and joining so they can ask questions about what they are doing to find out if it is right or wrong. If they wanted a yes-man, they could just keep getting advice from their local fish store or pet store employees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Hi Lenny I am not looking to pick a fight, but I have read your e-mails for the past year or more and you actually discourage more potential fish keepers than you encourage, You are what I call a computer fish keeper. Your theory is great and you are knowledgeable,but as far as your concerned most of us should not consider keeping fish as a hobby, I have been keeping fish since the 1960's and have had fish rooms consisting of several thousand gallons and have bred all kinds of fish. I have kept both salt and freshwater fish, although my concentration has been in keeping African Cichlids. When I tell you that I have a 75 gallon tank with 24 Africans, I'm sure you would say I am way over stocked and you are probably right. However I think the key is are my fish "HAPPY" and I think they are. I loose a bout one fish a year. Your theory of Fish keeping is great, but most people that ask questions are looking for help. They don't want to be told that they don't belong in the hobby or that they should get rid of all the fish that their LFS sold to them. How about telling them that if the fish's fins are fully extended, then the fish are happy Let's spend our time trying to encourage people to this great hobby, instead of telling them that they are doing the wrong thing. Sorry for the "Soap Box", but I am a serious fish keeper. I think the answer I once heard to the question? What is the difference between a amateur and a professional fish keeper? The price of the fish we kill. Says it all. John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > wrote: Ooops. I missed the frog when I replied earlier. Yep, your sister definitely needs to find out exactly, and study up on, what she is adding to her tank. She should stick to that 10G stocking list that I gave you in my earlier reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Well if it's an albino clawed frog(which I can almost guarantee it is) then they are voracious. They'll eat ANYTHING they can get in their mouth which, when your sister's gets bigger, will probably include every fish in the tank. I'd be willing to bet your sisters frog is a little fatter these days. Sorry about the loss. Kate my_cycling > wrote: My sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal 10 gallon filtration and heating system (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. What could have happend to them? TIA, -Cheryl :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25925	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

One thing I've found to be indispensable over the years is a quality wet/dry Shop-Vac. They have lots of uses besides cleaning up after aquarium "mishaps like the ones described in this thread. I've been extraordinarily lucky in that the only time I came close to having a tank blowout, I was standing right next to it when it started. The bow across the top of my 55 gallon snapped with a sound like a .22 pistol shot and I was able to drain the tank fast enough to prevent a flood. (This was when I was filling at after a cross-country move.) The bow had been cracked during shipping and I didn't notice it. Moral of the story - triple check everything after a long-distance move!    Gregg Bender Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

Businesses do not typically stock products that people won't buy since that wouldn't be profitable. I own my own business so I know a little about this concept. After they have to sit on that inventory for several months, they won't be ordering very many on their next order. Same with the people who catch them and/or breed them. If unknowing buyers were educated on their requirements and quit buying so many, the catchers/breeders would quit catching/breeding so many.... this means all BIG fish that are commonly sold to people with inadequate tank space... fish like goldfish, oscars, pacu's, clown loaches, common plecos, etc., etc. Did you know that many BIG fish are some of the top non-indigenous species threatening natural species in many local waters in North America and around the world? It's because unknowing buyers get them and when they start to get too big or become aggressive to tankmates (which happens in an overstocked or undersized tank also), they get released in the local waters. See "Suckermouth Catfish" on this list.. the common pleco. http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php It's not my fault, nor should you be criticizing me for dissuading people from keeping these fish in undersized tanks... it's the previous generations (yours??) and the current stores that didn't or do not dissuade people that have caused the problems. I'm just here trying to help people keep and take care of fish that they can reasonably take care of. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 3:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? I never would condone mistreating any animal from a fish to a dog/cat or other animal. But stop and think for a moment, if no hobbyist bought the common pleco, how many would die in the local pet stores, because they are being kept in 10/5 gal tanks. Looking at it your way isn't a lot more humane to have a pleco that is being cared for, then one that is left to die in the local pet shop. Looking at it from a totally humane way it is better if we do not keep any fish at all and they remain in their natural habitat in the oceans or lakes. We both know that will not happen so we should try to give them the best possible home we can, whatever that might be. John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: I'm not fighting with you... I'm simply stating facts. It's not a fight if you think the sky is green because someone told you it was and then I tell you plain and simple that it's blue (unless there's a cloud cover). You can either trust me, research what I told you or go on believing what you want. I'm sorry you got into the hobby 60 years ago and got bad advice from people that didn't know any better... just like I didn't know any better when I first got started and got lots of bad advice... but now that we do know better, we shouldn't condone people making the same ignorant mistakes you or I made when we first started. And yes... nobody should stick a fish that is supposed to grow to over 18" in a small 10G tank and even your example of a 55G isn't big enough for a permanent home for a common pleco but it's 550% better than sticking them in a 10G tank and a 55G is fine for the first year or so. If they want a small algae eating catfish, get a shoal of oto's. If they want a common pleco, get a 6' long BIG tank for a permanent long term home for the next 20 years or arrange with their LFS to trade the little guy in every six to 12 months if they have a 55G... but don't put a common pleco in a 10G tank. And as far as breaking some of the "RULES", that's like telling Michael Vick... it's OK if you only kill one dog a year and it's OK to keep your dogs in little cages between their fights as long as you clean their little cages on a weekly basis. Sorry but I'm not going to say it's OK to mistreat any pet. And intentionally or ignorantly putting a large fish in a small tank is mistreating it whether you like it or not. When you don't know any better, it may not be your fault but when they come to a forum and ask for help, they need to get the proper information, not some feel-good gobblygook. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 1:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Lenny As I said I was not looking for a fight. I agree that the Local Fish Stores are giving people a lot of Miss-info, however we should look to offer help, not turn them away from the hobby. Using your Theory, no one should ever own a common pleco unless they have a large tank. In theory this is great, however we both know this is not so and never will happen. So what we should do is try to help people keep these fish alive as long as possible. While I know you mean the best, you are scaring people away from fish keeping. I am not disagreeing with you. However many of us have been able to keep fish healthy and happy, while breaking some of the "RULES". Many of the people just entering the hobby would not be happy keeping a single pleco in a 55 gallon tank. Many of these people are keeping display tanks in their Living Rooms and are looking for color and flair. All I was saying was "Please stop scaring people away" John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > wrote: I was going to give a long answer but I guess I'll just go buy a common pleco and stick it in a 10G tank and if he appears to be "HAPPY", then I'm doing a good job. I won't care what everyone says about the fact that they should grow as long as the tank. My fish store said that fish only grow to the size of the tank they are stuck in so he'll only grow to 4" or so and only live for five or so years but heck.. I think he's "HAPPY" and that's all that matters. The truth is people go through the effort of finding this forum and joining so they can ask questions about what they are doing to find out if it is right or wrong. If they wanted a yes-man, they could just keep getting advice from their local fish store or pet store employees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Hi Lenny I am not looking to pick a fight, but I have read your e-mails for the past year or more and you actually discourage more potential fish keepers than you encourage, You are what I call a computer fish keeper. Your theory is great and you are knowledgeable,but as far as your concerned most of us should not consider keeping fish as a hobby, I have been keeping fish since the 1960's and have had fish rooms consisting of several thousand gallons and have bred all kinds of fish. I have kept both salt and freshwater fish, although my concentration has been in keeping African Cichlids. When I tell you that I have a 75 gallon tank with 24 Africans, I'm sure you would say I am way over stocked and you are probably right. However I think the key is are my fish "HAPPY" and I think they are. I loose a bout one fish a year. Your theory of Fish keeping is great, but most people that ask questions are looking for help. They don't want to be told that they don't belong in the hobby or that they should get rid of all the fish that their LFS sold to them. How about telling them that if the fish's fins are fully extended, then the fish are happy Let's spend our time trying to encourage people to this great hobby, instead of telling them that they are doing the wrong thing. Sorry for the "Soap Box", but I am a serious fish keeper. I think the answer I once heard to the question? What is the difference between a amateur and a professional fish keeper? The price of the fish we kill. Says it all. John in Nevada "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > wrote: Ooops. I missed the frog when I replied earlier. Yep, your sister definitely needs to find out exactly, and study up on, what she is adding to her tank. She should stick to that 10G stocking list that I gave you in my earlier reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? Well if it's an albino clawed frog(which I can almost guarantee it is) then they are voracious. They'll eat ANYTHING they can get in their mouth which, when your sister's gets bigger, will probably include every fish in the tank. I'd be willing to bet your sisters frog is a little fatter these days. Sorry about the loss. Kate my_cycling > wrote: My sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal 10 gallon filtration and heating system (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. What could have happend to them? TIA, -Cheryl :D No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release Date: 2/18/2008 5:50 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25927	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

As for these common Plecos dying in the pet shops because of being kept in 10 gallon tanks, they would only die if kept in these tanks and allowed to outgrown it in the long-term (a year perhaps). While the hobbyist will certainly be keeping these fish long-term (or until they die), having no other choice unless he either trades it in or is educated to the needs (a much bigger tank) of the fish. On the otherhand, the shopkeeper is not about to lose his investment and will place the fish in increasingly larger aquariums as it grows. If its found he has to do this too often, he won't be ordering them from his wholesaler much longer after that; not many would die in local pet stores. By this though, it would almost seem as though it should be encouraged for hobbyists to unsuspectingly buy fish which will all to soon outgrow their tanks, rather than subject these fish to the possibility of them dying in the pets shops in a tank too small. Going by this reasoning, a shopkeeper would do extremely well if he stocked all his tanks with fish that will eventually get too large for the average aquarium, if the thinking is to not allow the fish to possibly die in the fish store's tanks, and therefore be encouraged to be bought just so it can be properly cared for. Obviously that rational itself will not come down to a humane way of treating these fish. Actually yes, the most humane (and prevalent) attitude presently in the hobby among the majority of knowledgeable and conscientious collectors, shippers, wholesalers, retailers and fish keepers is to not bring in such potentially large fish (as Red-Tailed Catfish or Arapaima/Pirarucu) leaving them in their natural habitat where its best they remain. Not all fish need to be sold as "aquarium fish," even if people ask for them, if these same people can't properly care for them as they mature. I seems the last sentence of the below statement says it all. " . . . we should try to give them the best possible home we can, . . . " While this is certainly true, this is the very reason why the information you've been reading on these Groups, given by knowledgeable hobbyist, dissuade beginner hobbyist not to take on a burden they may not be at all aware of. These replies by many of us here are, for the most part, directed at the beginner hobbyits who do not know otherwise, since for one thing, they may not have been properly advised by the shopkeeper. This lack of advice on the part of the shopkeeper may have been deliberate (to sell more fish), or it may have been the result of just not thinking to mention it -- or perhaps the shopkeeper may hve assumed that the buyer knew what he was getting himself in for, and may have been completely innocent of any selfish purpose. Again, this is where we come in. More experienced hobbyists might be aware of these pitfalls by now, and as such, these replies of advice are not directed to those hobbyists. There is an old saying in the tropical fish circles among those more experienced -- "Do what works best for you." This is taken to mean that the experienced hobbyist may know of mthods that are generally more successful, but might not be the best way to do things with his aquaria; he may have even better results within the cvircumstances he is working with> This advice should never be given to a beginner hobbyist, whom our replies are directed, as even if they "think" they know what's best, they don't actually have that knowledge yet. Your keeping 24 African Cichlids in a 75 gallon tank may work for you, but then by now you know how to maintain this fish load in this amount of water (by your PWC schedule, etc.), even though I don't see the purpose in it. On the other side of the coin, I don't think its fair to blame the older generation as a blanket statement for encouraging new hobbyists to go into maintaining fish which will outgrow all but the largest of aquariums. When it comes right down to it, much of that blame comes right back to that beginner hobbyist for not researching the needs of these potentially large fish -- just the same as this same beginner hobbyist neglects to look into the needs of any of his future fish purchases (which is the reason we're here). Many other pet owners of different animals at least take the interest to find out about their pet (dog, cat, etc.) before they buy them. Those that don't are often in for a rude awakening, with only themselves to blame. A good aquarium book is often the best way to start, although too few purchase one. This may be due in part to the newer generation's need for instant gratification. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > > I never would condone mistreating any animal from a fish to a dog/cat or other animal. > > But stop and think for a moment, if no hobbyist bought the common pleco, how many would die in the local pet stores, because they are being kept in 10/5 gal tanks. > > Looking at it your way isn't a lot more humane to have a pleco that is being cared for, then one that is left to die in the local pet shop. > > Looking at it from a totally humane way it is better if we do not keep any fish at all and they remain in their natural habitat in the oceans or lakes. > > We both know that will not happen so we should try to give them the best possible home we can, whatever that might be. > > John in Nevada > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I'm not fighting with you... I'm simply stating facts. It's not a fight if > you think the sky is green because someone told you it was and then I tell > you plain and simple that it's blue (unless there's a cloud cover). You can > either trust me, research what I told you or go on believing what you want. > > I'm sorry you got into the hobby 60 years ago and got bad advice from people > that didn't know any better... just like I didn't know any better when I > first got started and got lots of bad advice... but now that we do know > better, we shouldn't condone people making the same ignorant mistakes you or > I made when we first started. > > And yes... nobody should stick a fish that is supposed to grow to over 18" > in a small 10G tank and even your example of a 55G isn't big enough for a > permanent home for a common pleco but it's 550% better than sticking them in > a 10G tank and a 55G is fine for the first year or so. If they want a small > algae eating catfish, get a shoal of oto's. If they want a common pleco, > get a 6' long BIG tank for a permanent long term home for the next 20 years > or arrange with their LFS to trade the little guy in every six to 12 months > if they have a 55G... but don't put a common pleco in a 10G tank. > > And as far as breaking some of the "RULES", that's like telling Michael > Vick... it's OK if you only kill one dog a year and it's OK to keep your > dogs in little cages between their fights as long as you clean their little > cages on a weekly basis. > > Sorry but I'm not going to say it's OK to mistreat any pet. > > And intentionally or ignorantly putting a large fish in a small tank is > mistreating it whether you like it or not. When you don't know any better, > it may not be your fault but when they come to a forum and ask for help, > they need to get the proper information, not some feel-good gobblygook. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 1:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? > > Lenny > > As I said I was not looking for a fight. I agree that the Local Fish Stores > are giving people a lot of Miss-info, however we should look to offer help, > not turn them away from the hobby. > > Using your Theory, no one should ever own a common pleco unless they have a > large tank. In theory this is great, however we both know this is not so and > never will happen. So what we should do is try to help people keep these > fish alive as long as possible. > > While I know you mean the best, you are scaring people away from fish > keeping. I am not disagreeing with you. However many of us have been able to > keep fish healthy and happy, while breaking some of the "RULES". > > Many of the people just entering the hobby would not be happy keeping a > single pleco in a 55 gallon tank. Many of these people are keeping display > tanks in their Living Rooms and are looking for color and flair. > > All I was saying was "Please stop scaring people away" > > John in Nevada > > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > wrote: > I was going to give a long answer but I guess I'll just go buy a common > pleco and stick it in a 10G tank and if he appears to be "HAPPY", then I'm > doing a good job. I won't care what everyone says about the fact that they > should grow as long as the tank. My fish store said that fish only grow to > the size of the tank they are stuck in so he'll only grow to 4" or so and > only live for five or so years but heck.. I think he's "HAPPY" and that's > all that matters. > > The truth is people go through the effort of finding this forum and joining > so they can ask questions about what they are doing to find out if it is > right or wrong. If they wanted a yes-man, they could just keep getting > advice from their local fish store or pet store employees. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] > On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? > > Hi Lenny > > I am not looking to pick a fight, but I have read your e-mails for the past > year or more and you actually discourage more potential fish keepers than > you encourage, > > You are what I call a computer fish keeper. Your theory is great and you are > knowledgeable,but as far as your concerned most of us should not consider > keeping fish as a hobby, > > I have been keeping fish since the 1960's and have had fish rooms consisting > of several thousand gallons and have bred all kinds of fish. I have kept > both salt and freshwater fish, although my concentration has been in keeping > African Cichlids. When I tell you that I have a 75 gallon tank with 24 > Africans, I'm sure you would say I am way over stocked and you are probably > right. However I think the key is are my fish "HAPPY" and I think they are. > I loose a bout one fish a year. > > Your theory of Fish keeping is great, but most people that ask questions are > looking for help. They don't want to be told that they don't belong in the > hobby or that they should get rid of all the fish that their LFS sold to > them. > > How about telling them that if the fish's fins are fully extended, then the > fish are happy Let's spend our time trying to encourage people to this great > hobby, instead of telling them that they are doing the wrong thing. > > Sorry for the "Soap Box", but I am a serious fish keeper. I think the answer > I once heard to the question? > > What is the difference between a amateur and a professional fish keeper? > The price of the fish we kill. Says it all. > > John in Nevada > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > wrote: > Ooops. I missed the frog when I replied earlier. Yep, your sister definitely > needs to find out exactly, and study up on, what she is adding to her tank. > She should stick to that 10G stocking list that I gave you in my earlier > reply. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > ] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? > > Well if it's an albino clawed frog(which I can almost guarantee it is) then > they are voracious. They'll eat ANYTHING they can get in their mouth which, > when your sister's gets bigger, will probably include every fish in the > tank. I'd be willing to bet your sisters frog is a little fatter these days. > Sorry about the loss. > Kate > > my_cycling > wrote: My > sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had > disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black > tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae > eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal > 10 gallon filtration and heating system > (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone > aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big > enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. > What could have happend to them? > > TIA, > > -Cheryl > :D > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 12:00 > AM > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25928	From: ED	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Angels

How big a tank would be needed for 6-angels(adults)2-cory(green) and 1- Black Ghost Knife? Underground filtration and a back filter aswell.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25929	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

I'm almost afraid to jump in... but I have to admit, I'm GLAD someone pointed out that the common pleco gets bloody HUGE -- the LFS kids usually try to sell them to everybody w/ a tank and even my buddy whose dad used to breed cichlids said I should get one... I'm looking at getting one of the dwarf plecos eventually because I have a 100 gal. tank and want room for other things... which isn't to say that I might not be a tad over stocked, I'm just glad no body is going to end up half as long as my tank when they grow up.... (however on the flip side, it is easy to get discouraged by some well meaning advice -- I guess each person has to find their own middle ground and figure out for themselves which advice is really the best, because the internet is really a two - edged sword. There's a ton of information out there - and not all of it is good.) Ok, that's enough from me. :) ~Helen --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25930	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Cleaning artificial plants

Does anyone know of a safe means of cleaning brown algae off of artificial plants and decorations. I would want to remove them from the aquarium and soak them in a solution for a period of time, rinse well and replace. Jimmy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25931	From: Chad Plum	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning artificial plants

bleach and water about 4 caps full of bleach to a gallon of water then saok for about an hour or so if you soak for an hour then after done soak in a gallon of water with declor in it for 2 hours just double the time of the first soak for the second soak before putting back in the tank and I always add a little declor to the tank also but never have had a problem with this Jimmy McHaney <jimmym@...> wrote: Does anyone know of a safe means of cleaning brown algae off of artificial plants and decorations. I would want to remove them from the aquarium and soak them in a solution for a period of time, rinse well and replace. Jimmy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25932	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning artificial plants

Thanks. That sounds simple enough. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad Plum To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cleaning artificial plants bleach and water about 4 caps full of bleach to a gallon of water then saok for about an hour or so if you soak for an hour then after done soak in a gallon of water with declor in it for 2 hours just double the time of the first soak for the second soak before putting back in the tank and I always add a little declor to the tank also but never have had a problem with this Jimmy McHaney <jimmym@...> wrote: Does anyone know of a safe means of cleaning brown algae off of artificial plants and decorations. I would want to remove them from the aquarium and soak them in a solution for a period of time, rinse well and replace. Jimmy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25933	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

Very well put Ray!! I consider you to be one of the experts on here. Of course the one thing we haven't taken into account here is that if we all kept fish for a long period of time, the local fish stores would go out of business. They are hoping that we will loose fish so they can sell us more. They are really interested in the casual hobbyist, that buys fish with the idea that they will live for a short time and then they will buy more or possibly try another species. This is why many of the LFS are not interested in the serious hobbyist. "Your keeping 24 African Cichlids in a 75 gallon tank may work for you, but then by now you know how to maintain this fish load in this amount of water (by your PWC schedule, etc.), even though I don't see the purpose in it." I would like to explain, this was not intentional. I originally started with 14, but they bred and I didn't have the space for another tank. So you are right I have learned to maintain them by over filtering and weekly PWC's. All of this being said. The reason for my original post was that we should spend more time encouraging new Hobbyists and LESS time discouraging them. Fish keeping is a FANTASTIC HOBBY. John in Nevada Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: As for these common Plecos dying in the pet shops because of being kept in 10 gallon tanks, they would only die if kept in these tanks and allowed to outgrown it in the long-term (a year perhaps). While the hobbyist will certainly be keeping these fish long-term (or until they die), having no other choice unless he either trades it in or is educated to the needs (a much bigger tank) of the fish. On the otherhand, the shopkeeper is not about to lose his investment and will place the fish in increasingly larger aquariums as it grows. If its found he has to do this too often, he won't be ordering them from his wholesaler much longer after that; not many would die in local pet stores. By this though, it would almost seem as though it should be encouraged for hobbyists to unsuspectingly buy fish which will all to soon outgrow their tanks, rather than subject these fish to the possibility of them dying in the pets shops in a tank too small. Going by this reasoning, a shopkeeper would do extremely well if he stocked all his tanks with fish that will eventually get too large for the average aquarium, if the thinking is to not allow the fish to possibly die in the fish store's tanks, and therefore be encouraged to be bought just so it can be properly cared for. Obviously that rational itself will not come down to a humane way of treating these fish. Actually yes, the most humane (and prevalent) attitude presently in the hobby among the majority of knowledgeable and conscientious collectors, shippers, wholesalers, retailers and fish keepers is to not bring in such potentially large fish (as Red-Tailed Catfish or Arapaima/Pirarucu) leaving them in their natural habitat where its best they remain. Not all fish need to be sold as "aquarium fish," even if people ask for them, if these same people can't properly care for them as they mature. I seems the last sentence of the below statement says it all. " . . . we should try to give them the best possible home we can, . . . " While this is certainly true, this is the very reason why the information you've been reading on these Groups, given by knowledgeable hobbyist, dissuade beginner hobbyist not to take on a burden they may not be at all aware of. These replies by many of us here are, for the most part, directed at the beginner hobbyits who do not know otherwise, since for one thing, they may not have been properly advised by the shopkeeper. This lack of advice on the part of the shopkeeper may have been deliberate (to sell more fish), or it may have been the result of just not thinking to mention it -- or perhaps the shopkeeper may hve assumed that the buyer knew what he was getting himself in for, and may have been completely innocent of any selfish purpose. Again, this is where we come in. More experienced hobbyists might be aware of these pitfalls by now, and as such, these replies of advice are not directed to those hobbyists. There is an old saying in the tropical fish circles among those more experienced -- "Do what works best for you." This is taken to mean that the experienced hobbyist may know of mthods that are generally more successful, but might not be the best way to do things with his aquaria; he may have even better results within the cvircumstances he is working with> This advice should never be given to a beginner hobbyist, whom our replies are directed, as even if they "think" they know what's best, they don't actually have that knowledge yet. Your keeping 24 African Cichlids in a 75 gallon tank may work for you, but then by now you know how to maintain this fish load in this amount of water (by your PWC schedule, etc.), even though I don't see the purpose in it. On the other side of the coin, I don't think its fair to blame the older generation as a blanket statement for encouraging new hobbyists to go into maintaining fish which will outgrow all but the largest of aquariums. When it comes right down to it, much of that blame comes right back to that beginner hobbyist for not researching the needs of these potentially large fish -- just the same as this same beginner hobbyist neglects to look into the needs of any of his future fish purchases (which is the reason we're here). Many other pet owners of different animals at least take the interest to find out about their pet (dog, cat, etc.) before they buy them. Those that don't are often in for a rude awakening, with only themselves to blame. A good aquarium book is often the best way to start, although too few purchase one. This may be due in part to the newer generation's need for instant gratification. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > > I never would condone mistreating any animal from a fish to a dog/cat or other animal. > > But stop and think for a moment, if no hobbyist bought the common pleco, how many would die in the local pet stores, because they are being kept in 10/5 gal tanks. > > Looking at it your way isn't a lot more humane to have a pleco that is being cared for, then one that is left to die in the local pet shop. > > Looking at it from a totally humane way it is better if we do not keep any fish at all and they remain in their natural habitat in the oceans or lakes. > > We both know that will not happen so we should try to give them the best possible home we can, whatever that might be. > > John in Nevada > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I'm not fighting with you... I'm simply stating facts. It's not a fight if > you think the sky is green because someone told you it was and then I tell > you plain and simple that it's blue (unless there's a cloud cover). You can > either trust me, research what I told you or go on believing what you want. > > I'm sorry you got into the hobby 60 years ago and got bad advice from people > that didn't know any better... just like I didn't know any better when I > first got started and got lots of bad advice... but now that we do know > better, we shouldn't condone people making the same ignorant mistakes you or > I made when we first started. > > And yes... nobody should stick a fish that is supposed to grow to over 18" > in a small 10G tank and even your example of a 55G isn't big enough for a > permanent home for a common pleco but it's 550% better than sticking them in > a 10G tank and a 55G is fine for the first year or so. If they want a small > algae eating catfish, get a shoal of oto's. If they want a common pleco, > get a 6' long BIG tank for a permanent long term home for the next 20 years > or arrange with their LFS to trade the little guy in every six to 12 months > if they have a 55G... but don't put a common pleco in a 10G tank. > > And as far as breaking some of the "RULES", that's like telling Michael > Vick... it's OK if you only kill one dog a year and it's OK to keep your > dogs in little cages between their fights as long as you clean their little > cages on a weekly basis. > > Sorry but I'm not going to say it's OK to mistreat any pet. > > And intentionally or ignorantly putting a large fish in a small tank is > mistreating it whether you like it or not. When you don't know any better, > it may not be your fault but when they come to a forum and ask for help, > they need to get the proper information, not some feel-good gobblygook. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 1:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? > > Lenny > > As I said I was not looking for a fight. I agree that the Local Fish Stores > are giving people a lot of Miss-info, however we should look to offer help, > not turn them away from the hobby. > > Using your Theory, no one should ever own a common pleco unless they have a > large tank. In theory this is great, however we both know this is not so and > never will happen. So what we should do is try to help people keep these > fish alive as long as possible. > > While I know you mean the best, you are scaring people away from fish > keeping. I am not disagreeing with you. However many of us have been able to > keep fish healthy and happy, while breaking some of the "RULES". > > Many of the people just entering the hobby would not be happy keeping a > single pleco in a 55 gallon tank. Many of these people are keeping display > tanks in their Living Rooms and are looking for color and flair. > > All I was saying was "Please stop scaring people away" > > John in Nevada > > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > wrote: > I was going to give a long answer but I guess I'll just go buy a common > pleco and stick it in a 10G tank and if he appears to be "HAPPY", then I'm > doing a good job. I won't care what everyone says about the fact that they > should grow as long as the tank. My fish store said that fish only grow to > the size of the tank they are stuck in so he'll only grow to 4" or so and > only live for five or so years but heck.. I think he's "HAPPY" and that's > all that matters. > > The truth is people go through the effort of finding this forum and joining > so they can ask questions about what they are doing to find out if it is > right or wrong. If they wanted a yes-man, they could just keep getting > advice from their local fish store or pet store employees. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] > On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? > > Hi Lenny > > I am not looking to pick a fight, but I have read your e-mails for the past > year or more and you actually discourage more potential fish keepers than > you encourage, > > You are what I call a computer fish keeper. Your theory is great and you are > knowledgeable,but as far as your concerned most of us should not consider > keeping fish as a hobby, > > I have been keeping fish since the 1960's and have had fish rooms consisting > of several thousand gallons and have bred all kinds of fish. I have kept > both salt and freshwater fish, although my concentration has been in keeping > African Cichlids. When I tell you that I have a 75 gallon tank with 24 > Africans, I'm sure you would say I am way over stocked and you are probably > right. However I think the key is are my fish "HAPPY" and I think they are. > I loose a bout one fish a year. > > Your theory of Fish keeping is great, but most people that ask questions are > looking for help. They don't want to be told that they don't belong in the > hobby or that they should get rid of all the fish that their LFS sold to > them. > > How about telling them that if the fish's fins are fully extended, then the > fish are happy Let's spend our time trying to encourage people to this great > hobby, instead of telling them that they are doing the wrong thing. > > Sorry for the "Soap Box", but I am a serious fish keeper. I think the answer > I once heard to the question? > > What is the difference between a amateur and a professional fish keeper? > The price of the fish we kill. Says it all. > > John in Nevada > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > wrote: > Ooops. I missed the frog when I replied earlier. Yep, your sister definitely > needs to find out exactly, and study up on, what she is adding to her tank. > She should stick to that 10G stocking list that I gave you in my earlier > reply. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > ] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? > > Well if it's an albino clawed frog(which I can almost guarantee it is) then > they are voracious. They'll eat ANYTHING they can get in their mouth which, > when your sister's gets bigger, will probably include every fish in the > tank. I'd be willing to bet your sisters frog is a little fatter these days. > Sorry about the loss. > Kate > > my_cycling > wrote: My > sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours all 4 had > disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin black > tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" algae > eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and a normal > 10 gallon filtration and heating system > (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The neone > aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other fish are big > enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. > What could have happend to them? > > TIA, > > -Cheryl > :D > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 12:00 > AM > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25934	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

I have to say without this group I would have not even known until to late how big my fish were going to get. I should have done more research FIRST but the fact was I didnt...I trusted the fish guy and without this group and lenny and the others to tell me whats right and not so right and ways to make it right and better for my fish I wouldnt have known there was even a problem until it was too late. I know now after setting up 2 55's and still looking for larger tanks for my fish that will eventually be huge that I must and will in the future do more of my own research on the fish I choose to put into my tanks. Just my two cents. Noone scared me off from wanting fish..they just educated me on what I have what I need and where to go from here. Which I appreciate very much. I want my fish to live as long as possible and be as healthy as they can be. -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 1:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What happened to 4 neons at once? Very well put Ray!! I consider you to be one of the experts on here. Of course the one thing we haven't taken into account here is that if we all kept fish for a long period of time, the local fish stores would go out of business. They are hoping that we will loose fish so they can sell us more. They are really interested in the casual hobbyist, that buys fish with the idea that they will live for a short time and then they will buy more or possibly try another species. This is why many of the LFS are not interested in the serious hobbyist. "Your keeping 24 African Cichlids in a 75 gallon tank may work for you, but then by now you know how to maintain this fish load in this amount of water (by your PWC schedule, etc.), even though I don't see the purpose in it." I would like to explain, this was not intentional. I originally started with 14, but they bred and I didn't have the space for another tank. So you are right I have learned to maintain them by over filtering and weekly PWC's [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25935	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

You are what I would term "A beginning Serious Hobbyist", Unfortunately many beginners neither have the desire or the space for 2 55 gallon tanks. Unfortunately many beginners do not enter the hobby with the desire to keep fish, but ratherthey have a space and decide that a fish tank would fill it. Or in some cases it's parents who give their children a fish tank as a gift. This is a fantastic hobby and we ahve a lot to learn about it. We keep discovering new things every day. Many of the ideas and myths that existed yesterday are no longer of value today. Welcome to the "Wonderful World of Fish Keeping" John in Nevada ¤H3ATH3R¤ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: I have to say without this group I would have not even known until to late how big my fish were going to get. I should have done more research FIRST but the fact was I didnt...I trusted the fish guy and without this group and lenny and the others to tell me whats right and not so right and ways to make it right and better for my fish I wouldnt have known there was even a problem until it was too late. I know now after setting up 2 55's and still looking for larger tanks for my fish that will eventually be huge that I must and will in the future do more of my own research on the fish I choose to put into my tanks. Just my two cents. Noone scared me off from wanting fish..they just educated me on what I have what I need and where to go from here. Which I appreciate very much. I want my fish to live as long as possible and be as healthy as they can be. -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 1:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What happened to 4 neons at once? Very well put Ray!! I consider you to be one of the experts on here. Of course the one thing we haven't taken into account here is that if we all kept fish for a long period of time, the local fish stores would go out of business. They are hoping that we will loose fish so they can sell us more. They are really interested in the casual hobbyist, that buys fish with the idea that they will live for a short time and then they will buy more or possibly try another species. This is why many of the LFS are not interested in the serious hobbyist. "Your keeping 24 African Cichlids in a 75 gallon tank may work for you, but then by now you know how to maintain this fish load in this amount of water (by your PWC schedule, etc.), even though I don't see the purpose in it." I would like to explain, this was not intentional. I originally started with 14, but they bred and I didn't have the space for another tank. So you are right I have learned to maintain them by over filtering and weekly PWC's [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25936	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Thanks John

Yes I am serious about it and willing to do what I need to do to keep them all healthy and alive. My 9 yr old son has a 10 gal. tank that he was given for his birthday in August. He started with 2 guppies now has about 5...the adult male seems to eat all the male babies and really not many of the babies make it. I told him if he could feed them and take care of everything that needs to be done for a year that he could get a larger tank and get a couple of fish other than guppies. He keeps his tank clean, does weekly water changes and feeds them every day. So I am a parent who gave my child a tank but he is learning as I am how to take care of them the right way. :) Hope everyone had a great weekend. -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: What happened to 4 neons at once? You are what I would term "A beginning Serious Hobbyist", Unfortunately many beginners neither have the desire or the space for 2 55 gallon tanks. Unfortunately many beginners do not enter the hobby with the desire to keep fish, but ratherthey have a space and decide that a fish tank would fill it. Or in some cases it's parents who give their children a fish tank as a gift. This is a fantastic hobby and we ahve a lot to learn about it. We keep discovering new things every day. Many of the ideas and myths that existed yesterday are no longer of value today. Welcome to the "Wonderful World of Fish Keeping" John in Nevada ¤H3ATH3R¤ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: I have to say without this group I would have not even known until to late how big my fish were going to get. I should have done more research FIRST but the fact was I didnt...I trusted the fish guy and without this group and lenny and the others to tell me whats right and not so right and ways to make it right and better for my fish I wouldnt have known there was even a problem until it was too late. I know now after setting up 2 55's and still looking for larger tanks for my fish that will eventually be huge that I must and will in the future do more of my own research on the fish I choose to put into my tanks. Just my two cents. Noone scared me off from wanting fish..they just educated me on what I have what I need and where to go from here. Which I appreciate very much. I want my fish to live as long as possible and be as healthy as they can be. -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 1:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What happened to 4 neons at once? Very well put Ray!! I consider you to be one of the experts on here. Of course the one thing we haven't taken into account here is that if we all kept fish for a long period of time, the local fish stores would go out of business. They are hoping that we will loose fish so they can sell us more. They are really interested in the casual hobbyist, that buys fish with the idea that they will live for a short time and then they will buy more or possibly try another species. This is why many of the LFS are not interested in the serious hobbyist. "Your keeping 24 African Cichlids in a 75 gallon tank may work for you, but then by now you know how to maintain this fish load in this amount of water (by your PWC schedule, etc.), even though I don't see the purpose in it." I would like to explain, this was not intentional. I originally started with 14, but they bred and I didn't have the space for another tank. So you are right I have learned to maintain them by over filtering and weekly PWC's [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25937	From: Debra	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

> I've been extraordinarily lucky in that the only time I came close to having a tank blowout, I was standing right next to it when it started. The bow across the top of my 55 gallon snapped with a sound like a .22 pistol shot Reading your post reminded me of the day my then 14 year old daughter called me at work and said "the fish tank just exploded and there is water everywhere. I was only five minutes away and when I got home the "exploded" tank (a 55 gallon) was about 70% empty, the fish were all still in the tank, and the floor was a mess. It appears there was tension on one of the Fluval hoses and it came apart and sucked the water out down to the intake. Easily fixed and since we pulled all our carpet out after the hurricane Katrina flooding the tiled floor was a simple mop job. Lesson learned, when cleaning Fluvals check the tension on your intake and output hoses (even if you don't think you need to). Deb Mississippi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25938	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

John, Thanks for the kind words. In the matter of "do what works best for you," as with your more heavily populated African Cichlid tank, keep in mind we would never recommend such a practice to the beginner hobbyist and only condone your doing so when recognizing that you know what you've gotten yourself in for and know how to maintain this added burden, even if its not the best way to keep these fish. Our suggestions are primarily meant for the beginner as sound and practical advice in helping him or her maintain their aquarium(s) with success. This advice is also meant for the intermediate hobbyist who may not be aware of (or may choose to think otherwise, thinking he knows "best") the information being offered. This said, we would not encourage any new hobbyist to try maintaining a fish which we know would eventually be beyond their capacity to do so. If you choose to view this as being "discouraging," you may do so, but only in the context that its the best advice for both the hobbyist and the fish in the long run, when we can easily foresee the real outcome when the beginner never will until its too late for both parties. We wouldn't offer such advice otherwise as we're not here to put a damper on the best of plans but only to see success. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > > Very well put Ray!! > > I consider you to be one of the experts on here. > > Of course the one thing we haven't taken into account here is that if we all kept fish for a long period of time, the local fish stores would go out of business. They are hoping that we will loose fish so they can sell us more. They are really interested in the casual hobbyist, that buys fish with the idea that they will live for a short time and then they will buy more or possibly try another species. This is why many of the LFS are not interested in the serious hobbyist. > > "Your keeping 24 African Cichlids in a 75 gallon tank > may work for you, but then by now you know how to maintain this fish > load in this amount of water (by your PWC schedule, etc.), even > though I don't see the purpose in it." > > I would like to explain, this was not intentional. I originally started with 14, but they bred and I didn't have the space for another tank. So you are right I have learned to maintain them by over filtering and weekly PWC's. > > All of this being said. The reason for my original post was that we should spend more time encouraging new Hobbyists and LESS time discouraging them. Fish keeping is a FANTASTIC HOBBY. > > John in Nevada > > > > Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > As for these common Plecos dying in the pet shops because of being > kept in 10 gallon tanks, they would only die if kept in these tanks > and allowed to outgrown it in the long-term (a year perhaps). While > the hobbyist will certainly be keeping these fish long-term (or until > they die), having no other choice unless he either trades it in or is > educated to the needs (a much bigger tank) of the fish. On the > otherhand, the shopkeeper is not about to lose his investment and > will place the fish in increasingly larger aquariums as it grows. If > its found he has to do this too often, he won't be ordering them from > his wholesaler much longer after that; not many would die in local > pet stores. > > By this though, it would almost seem as though it should be > encouraged for hobbyists to unsuspectingly buy fish which will all to > soon outgrow their tanks, rather than subject these fish to the > possibility of them dying in the pets shops in a tank too small. > Going by this reasoning, a shopkeeper would do extremely well if he > stocked all his tanks with fish that will eventually get too large > for the average aquarium, if the thinking is to not allow the fish to > possibly die in the fish store's tanks, and therefore be encouraged > to be bought just so it can be properly cared for. Obviously that > rational itself will not come down to a humane way of treating these > fish. > > Actually yes, the most humane (and prevalent) attitude presently in > the hobby among the majority of knowledgeable and conscientious > collectors, shippers, wholesalers, retailers and fish keepers is to > not bring in such potentially large fish (as Red-Tailed Catfish or > Arapaima/Pirarucu) leaving them in their natural habitat where its > best they remain. Not all fish need to be sold as "aquarium fish," > even if people ask for them, if these same people can't properly care > for them as they mature. > > I seems the last sentence of the below statement says it > all. " . . . we should try to give them the best possible home we > can, . . . " While this is certainly true, this is the very reason > why the information you've been reading on these Groups, given by > knowledgeable hobbyist, dissuade beginner hobbyist not to take on a > burden they may not be at all aware of. > > These replies by many of us here are, for the most part, directed at > the beginner hobbyits who do not know otherwise, since for one thing, > they may not have been properly advised by the shopkeeper. This lack > of advice on the part of the shopkeeper may have been deliberate (to > sell more fish), or it may have been the result of just not thinking > to mention it -- or perhaps the shopkeeper may hve assumed that the > buyer knew what he was getting himself in for, and may have been > completely innocent of any selfish purpose. Again, this is where we > come in. > > More experienced hobbyists might be aware of these pitfalls by now, > and as such, these replies of advice are not directed to those > hobbyists. There is an old saying in the tropical fish circles among > those more experienced -- "Do what works best for you." This is > taken to mean that the experienced hobbyist may know of mthods that > are generally more successful, but might not be the best way to do > things with his aquaria; he may have even better results within the > cvircumstances he is working with> This advice should never be given > to a beginner hobbyist, whom our replies are directed, as even if > they "think" they know what's best, they don't actually have that > knowledge yet. Your keeping 24 African Cichlids in a 75 gallon tank > may work for you, but then by now you know how to maintain this fish > load in this amount of water (by your PWC schedule, etc.), even > though I don't see the purpose in it. > > On the other side of the coin, I don't think its fair to blame the > older generation as a blanket statement for encouraging new hobbyists > to go into maintaining fish which will outgrow all but the largest of > aquariums. When it comes right down to it, much of that blame comes > right back to that beginner hobbyist for not researching the needs of > these potentially large fish -- just the same as this same beginner > hobbyist neglects to look into the needs of any of his future fish > purchases (which is the reason we're here). Many other pet owners of > different animals at least take the interest to find out about their > pet (dog, cat, etc.) before they buy them. Those that don't are > often in for a rude awakening, with only themselves to blame. A good > aquarium book is often the best way to start, although too few > purchase one. This may be due in part to the newer generation's need > for instant gratification. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@> wrote: > > > > I never would condone mistreating any animal from a fish to a > dog/cat or other animal. > > > > But stop and think for a moment, if no hobbyist bought the common > pleco, how many would die in the local pet stores, because they are > being kept in 10/5 gal tanks. > > > > Looking at it your way isn't a lot more humane to have a pleco > that is being cared for, then one that is left to die in the local > pet shop. > > > > Looking at it from a totally humane way it is better if we do not > keep any fish at all and they remain in their natural habitat in the > oceans or lakes. > > > > We both know that will not happen so we should try to give them > the best possible home we can, whatever that might be. > > > > John in Nevada > > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > I'm not fighting with you... I'm simply stating facts. It's not a > fight if > > you think the sky is green because someone told you it was and then > I tell > > you plain and simple that it's blue (unless there's a cloud cover). > You can > > either trust me, research what I told you or go on believing what > you want. > > > > I'm sorry you got into the hobby 60 years ago and got bad advice > from people > > that didn't know any better... just like I didn't know any better > when I > > first got started and got lots of bad advice... but now that we do > know > > better, we shouldn't condone people making the same ignorant > mistakes you or > > I made when we first started. > > > > And yes... nobody should stick a fish that is supposed to grow to > over 18" > > in a small 10G tank and even your example of a 55G isn't big enough > for a > > permanent home for a common pleco but it's 550% better than > sticking them in > > a 10G tank and a 55G is fine for the first year or so. If they want > a small > > algae eating catfish, get a shoal of oto's. If they want a common > pleco, > > get a 6' long BIG tank for a permanent long term home for the next > 20 years > > or arrange with their LFS to trade the little guy in every six to > 12 months > > if they have a 55G... but don't put a common pleco in a 10G tank. > > > > And as far as breaking some of the "RULES", that's like telling > Michael > > Vick... it's OK if you only kill one dog a year and it's OK to keep > your > > dogs in little cages between their fights as long as you clean > their little > > cages on a weekly basis. > > > > Sorry but I'm not going to say it's OK to mistreat any pet. > > > > And intentionally or ignorantly putting a large fish in a small > tank is > > mistreating it whether you like it or not. When you don't know any > better, > > it may not be your fault but when they come to a forum and ask for > help, > > they need to get the proper information, not some feel-good > gobblygook. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE > > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 1:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? > > > > Lenny > > > > As I said I was not looking for a fight. I agree that the Local > Fish Stores > > are giving people a lot of Miss-info, however we should look to > offer help, > > not turn them away from the hobby. > > > > Using your Theory, no one should ever own a common pleco unless > they have a > > large tank. In theory this is great, however we both know this is > not so and > > never will happen. So what we should do is try to help people keep > these > > fish alive as long as possible. > > > > While I know you mean the best, you are scaring people away from > fish > > keeping. I am not disagreeing with you. However many of us have > been able to > > keep fish healthy and happy, while breaking some of the "RULES". > > > > Many of the people just entering the hobby would not be happy > keeping a > > single pleco in a 55 gallon tank. Many of these people are keeping > display > > tanks in their Living Rooms and are looking for color and flair. > > > > All I was saying was "Please stop scaring people away" > > > > John in Nevada > > > > > > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > wrote: > > I was going to give a long answer but I guess I'll just go buy a > common > > pleco and stick it in a 10G tank and if he appears to be "HAPPY", > then I'm > > doing a good job. I won't care what everyone says about the fact > that they > > should grow as long as the tank. My fish store said that fish only > grow to > > the size of the tank they are stuck in so he'll only grow to 4" or > so and > > only live for five or so years but heck.. I think he's "HAPPY" and > that's > > all that matters. > > > > The truth is people go through the effort of finding this forum and > joining > > so they can ask questions about what they are doing to find out if > it is > > right or wrong. If they wanted a yes-man, they could just keep > getting > > advice from their local fish store or pet store employees. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] > > On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE > > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? > > > > Hi Lenny > > > > I am not looking to pick a fight, but I have read your e-mails for > the past > > year or more and you actually discourage more potential fish > keepers than > > you encourage, > > > > You are what I call a computer fish keeper. Your theory is great > and you are > > knowledgeable,but as far as your concerned most of us should not > consider > > keeping fish as a hobby, > > > > I have been keeping fish since the 1960's and have had fish rooms > consisting > > of several thousand gallons and have bred all kinds of fish. I have > kept > > both salt and freshwater fish, although my concentration has been > in keeping > > African Cichlids. When I tell you that I have a 75 gallon tank with > 24 > > Africans, I'm sure you would say I am way over stocked and you are > probably > > right. However I think the key is are my fish "HAPPY" and I think > they are. > > I loose a bout one fish a year. > > > > Your theory of Fish keeping is great, but most people that ask > questions are > > looking for help. They don't want to be told that they don't belong > in the > > hobby or that they should get rid of all the fish that their LFS > sold to > > them. > > > > How about telling them that if the fish's fins are fully extended, > then the > > fish are happy Let's spend our time trying to encourage people to > this great > > hobby, instead of telling them that they are doing the wrong thing. > > > > Sorry for the "Soap Box", but I am a serious fish keeper. I think > the answer > > I once heard to the question? > > > > What is the difference between a amateur and a professional fish > keeper? > > The price of the fish we kill. Says it all. > > > > John in Nevada > > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > wrote: > > Ooops. I missed the frog when I replied earlier. Yep, your sister > definitely > > needs to find out exactly, and study up on, what she is adding to > her tank. > > She should stick to that 10G stocking list that I gave you in my > earlier > > reply. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > ] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow > > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:45 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What happened to 4 neons at once? > > > > Well if it's an albino clawed frog(which I can almost guarantee it > is) then > > they are voracious. They'll eat ANYTHING they can get in their > mouth which, > > when your sister's gets bigger, will probably include every fish in > the > > tank. I'd be willing to bet your sisters frog is a little fatter > these days. > > Sorry about the loss. > > Kate > > > > my_cycling > wrote: My > > sister just added 4 neons to her 10 gallon tank. Within 12 hours > all 4 had > > disappeared. Her tank consists of 5 other small fish - 1 high fin > black > > tetra, 2 red fin tetras, 1 dalmation mollie, and 1 unknown 1-1.5" > algae > > eater. She also has an albino frog. She has a gravel substrate and > a normal > > 10 gallon filtration and heating system > > (ie: nothing extra or special, just what came with the setup). The > neone > > aren't just dead. They're GONE. We don't think any of the other > fish are big > > enough to eat even one of the neons, say nothing of four. > > What could have happend to them? > > > > TIA, > > > > -Cheryl > > :D > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7 - Release Date: > 2/16/2008 12:00 > > AM > > > > > > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > thanks. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25939	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: Angels

I see you posted this about seven hours ago and I don't see a reply so at first glance, I would say a BIG tank. LOL A black ghost knife fish grows up to 19" and would need a 8' tank to give it some swimming room. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apteronotus_albifrons.html Angelfish should have at least 35G per fish as a general rule but when you increase the numbers, you can usually get by with less water volume per fish. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm The Cory's aren't much of an increase in the bioload compared to the other fish but I do not see corydoras mentioned as suggested companions on either of the above profiles so you may or may not have problems. You may want to go with a little bigger catfish species since your other fish are on the bigger end. You should also get at least three or more cory's as they prefer to shoal in groups. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm Given these numbers, a 240G 8'(Tall) or 300G 8'(Tall) would be a good tank. http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=2 I would go with a couple of good canister filters, each suited for your tank size so you would have double filtration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Angels How big a tank would be needed for 6-angels(adults)2-cory(green) and 1- Black Ghost Knife? Underground filtration and a back filter aswell. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release Date: 2/18/2008 5:50 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25940	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning artificial plants

Brown algae is often the misnomer for Diatoms and is not actually an algae. Diatoms are common in new tanks or in cases where there are high silicate levels in the source water or something is leaching, like a substrate or decoration. They are usually easily brushed off of plants and decorations while they are still in the tank and then can be vacuumed up with the gravel vacuum. If you have something that is not brushing off easily, then you may not have "Brown Algae". Here's a couple of algae pages and a page about brown algae. Look over the pictures on the algae pages to see if you can identify exactly what you have. http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/ http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning artificial plants Does anyone know of a safe means of cleaning brown algae off of artificial plants and decorations. I would want to remove them from the aquarium and soak them in a solution for a period of time, rinse well and replace. Jimmy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release Date: 2/18/2008 5:50 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25941	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

Its heartening to know there at least are beginning hobbyists out there who at least seek out their needed information on fish maintenance. Unfortunately, and beyond their control, some are being given misleading, insufficient and/or incorrect information by the very people they put their trust in when first buying their fish from them. Being otherwise unsuspecting, there is no way they could know this information given by some LFS owners or associates may not be the correct facts in all these situations, often leading to many problems down the road. Its the sincere pleasure of all of us here to be able to set the ill- informed (or uninformed) hobbyist straight on these matters, to see them succeeed in this hobby. We are here for no other purpose, except perhaps the ever present possibility of picking up a tid-bit or two of our own (no one can know everything), and are pleased to see the info-seeking members heeding our recommendations which further advances the hobby -- and heads failure off at the pass, or at least we're hoping so. There's a lot of info to be found on fishkeeping on the 'Net, much of it erroneous, and its not always easy for the beginner to discern which to believe. The successes here may be why this is one of the best Groups up there on these subjects. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ¤H3ATH3R¤ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > I have to say without this group I would have not even known until to late how big my fish were going to get. I should have done more research FIRST but the fact was I didnt...I trusted the fish guy and without this group and lenny and the others to tell me whats right and not so right and ways to make it right and better for my fish I wouldnt have known there was even a problem until it was too late. I know now after setting up 2 55's and still looking for larger tanks for my fish that will eventually be huge that I must and will in the future do more of my own research on the fish I choose to put into my tanks. > Just my two cents. No one scared me off from wanting fish..they just educated me on what I have what I need and where to go from here. Which I appreciate very much. I want my fish to live as long as possible and be as healthy as they can be. > > -----Original Message----- > From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 1:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What happened to 4 neons at once? > > Very well put Ray!! > > I consider you to be one of the experts on here. > > Of course the one thing we haven't taken into account here is that if we all kept fish for a long period of time, the local fish stores would go out of business. They are hoping that we will loose fish so they can sell us more. They are really interested in the casual hobbyist, that buys fish with the idea that they will live for a short time and then they will buy more or possibly try another species. This is why many of the LFS are not interested in the serious hobbyist. > > "Your keeping 24 African Cichlids in a 75 gallon tank > may work for you, but then by now you know how to maintain this fish > load in this amount of water (by your PWC schedule, etc.), even > though I don't see the purpose in it." > > I would like to explain, this was not intentional. I originally started with 14, but they bred and I didn't have the space for another tank. So you are right I have learned to maintain them by over filtering and weekly PWC's > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25942	From: Jim	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Home-made slates for eggs

After watching my angels laying eggs on the filter down tubes and losing several batches of eggs to inexperienced parents, I decided to see if I could make something that could easily be removed to an incubation tank. I epoxyed a piece of black plastic from an old light hood onto a rock to weight it so it would not float. Today I placed one of my home-made slates in four of my breeder tanks and already have eggs on three of them. Yippee! I placed pictures of them in my album which should be available soon. Grey (Jim)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25943	From: Sigbackoffice	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Hair Algae Outbreak

I do have a question maybe someone could help me out with. I have had an outbreak of hair algae and been unable to control it, I was looking online and found that the LETTUCE NUDIBRANCH eats only hair algae. Problem is I don't know anything about this, nor do I know what I am to do when all the hair algae is gone. Can someone tell me if purchasing this little guy would be a good choice or a bad one? Thanks, Tiff

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25944	From: Sigbackoffice	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Help

I need a little help, my poor tank is looking very sad, well maybe plain is a better word. I have posted a pic in the album entitled Tiff's Tank, there is nothing in there but live rock and my two babies, my Fu ManChu Lion and my Rabbitfish (I know he gets too big for a 29 gallon, but I will cross that bridge when I get there). It needs some color or something, it is not even a lot of fun to stare at, all of my freshwater tanks are lots of fun, but this one to me is kinda boring. Any help or advice will be super. Thanks, Tiff

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25945	From: Sigbackoffice	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: New Mollies

I am sorry I am so full of questions tonight. I went to the pet store today to get some feeder fish and they has a tank of 14 Mollies up for adoption, so being the sucker that I am I took them. I have a 55 gallon tank with two small plecos, two blood parrots, and now the 14 mollies. My parrots NEVER come out of the two big bells that I have in the tank, so I think that the mollies will be alright but I am not sure. I have an empty 20 gallon tank, should I set it up and put the mollies in there or do you think that they will be alright. Also 1 more question, the two parrots I bought them as a "mated pair" but have since read on the internet that if and when they lay eggs all the eggs will be infertile. Did the fish store just rip me off by selling them as a "mated pair" or will they really lay some fertile eggs? Thanks, Tiff

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25946	From: Amy	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: tadpole update

Ok he is doing great. I still have him in the tiny 3 gallon aquarium. I actually put some guppies in there so that they could get a bit bigger before turning into food. Well now I know what tadpoles eat. I kept about 10 runt guppies to fatten them up and for some odd reason I only have one left....hmmmm. LOL Yes the tadpole thanked me. They actually eat a variety of foods, well mine does anyways. I tried tropical pellets that sank to the bottom and he didn't touch them. So I fed the guppies Tropical Flakes and he went nuts eatting those. I fed him twice a day the flakes. I also put in some green algea sheet and he chewed on that. Oh and of course lets not forget his fresh supply of feeder guppies. Now it is time to drain out a bunch of the water so he can get up on to land. I keep watching every day for signs of him to start transforming into a frog. I just can't wait to see what kind of frog he turns into.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25947	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: tadpole update

That's great lol! I should have specified Tropical FLAKES, sorry wasn't thinking. Any idea what kind of frog it could be? I am pleased to hear you and baby are doing well. Had you in my thoughts... really... CC --- Amy <lovemyboys1976@...> wrote: > Ok he is doing great. I still have him in the tiny > 3 gallon aquarium. > I actually put some guppies in there so that they > could get a bit > bigger before turning into food. Well now I know > what tadpoles eat. I > kept about 10 runt guppies to fatten them up and for > some odd reason I > only have one left....hmmmm. LOL Yes the tadpole > thanked me. They > actually eat a variety of foods, well mine does > anyways. I tried > tropical pellets that sank to the bottom and he > didn't touch them. So > I fed the guppies Tropical Flakes and he went nuts > eatting those. I > fed him twice a day the flakes. I also put in some > green algea sheet > and he chewed on that. Oh and of course lets not > forget his fresh > supply of feeder guppies. Now it is time to drain > out a bunch of the > water so he can get up on to land. I keep watching > every day for signs > of him to start transforming into a frog. I just > can't wait to see > what kind of frog he turns into. > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25948	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/18/2008
Subject: Re: New Mollies

They might breed. I have heard reports of it. If they do breed they may have hundreds of Fry. Each parent of the forced mating that they get their genes from generally have large volumes of offspring. Even if you give them to all your fish friends your local store may not want the rest of them. If they do take them they may not need 80 of them. Since many of them are raised overseas the cost to the fish stores is fairly cheap and they only order what they need. -Mike In a message dated 2/18/2008 9:08:36 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, tlkauffman@... writes: "mated pair" but have since read on the internet that if and when they lay eggs all the eggs will be infertile. Did the fish store just rip me off by selling them as a "mated pair" or will they really lay some fertile eggs? Thanks, Tiff **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25949	From: Pat Jellison	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

This thread reminds me of something I took a lot of flak for years ago with one of our 55-gallon tanks. We had just moved into an old house, installed brand-new carpet, and had started to set up the tank on an interior, non-load bearing wall. I wasn't really happy with the stability of the whole thing -- the floor bounced a little bit there, and the tank wasn't perfectly level. So the SO comes home and finds that I've packed the interior of the stand with a triple layer of disposable diapers, opened flat. "Stupid" he says. "Unnecessary!" he says. "Looks ridiculous" he opines. Then one day while we're at work, one of the bottom seams opens up from the uneven stress and starts leaking. When we get home, the tank is less than half full. Fish are ok, but where is the water? Yup. Thirty-five gallons of water, totally absorbed by the diapers. No damage to floor, carpet, or room underneath. I was smug. :-) PJ Gregg wrote: One thing I've found to be indispensable over the years is a quality wet/dry Shop-Vac. They have lots of uses besides cleaning up after aquarium "mishaps like the ones described in this thread. I've been extraordinarily lucky in that the only time I came close to having a tank blowout, I was standing right next to it when it started. The bow across the top of my 55 gallon snapped with a sound like a .22 pistol shot and I was able to drain the tank fast enough to prevent a flood. (This was when I was filling at after a cross-country move.) The bow had been cracked during shipping and I didn't notice it. Moral of the story - triple check everything after a long-distance move!    Gregg Bender Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25950	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: ATTN: Business Owners and Group Owners - Free Advertising

As many of you know - I own and am creating a new web site at www.TheBasicsAbout.com The Basics About community will have a business forum. For those of you who want to get FREE advertising for your site You need to follow several easy steps 1) You will need to be a charter member - all that means is you pre- joined the site before it was launched. to do that go to http://www.webwholesaler.com/NewCommunity.html and add your email to the box on that page. That box is a NEWSLETTER LIST (as the hosting company calls it) That list will ONLY get one email sent out to it. After that - this list gets destroyed (not sold or traded or used again) 2) When the ONE email gets sent - you must (within 24 hours) join the forum group. That is PRE LAUNCH - whoever signs up in that time period become Charter Members. 3) Once you are a Charter member - there will be a section just for you to add your web link. That web link your link title will be added to the lower sponsor list on every page. It will remain there until regular paying sponsors bump a link off. See? SIMPLE FREE ADVERTISING! Also; it adds to the link relevance in search engine optimisation ... Thanks for your time! me - Randy Owner & Operator of TheBasicsAbout.com _____________________________________________________________

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25951	From: Amy	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: tadpole update

no clue what kind he is. he is very black right now and obviously the omnivore type. this is my first tadpole ever so i dont even know if he is big or small. he just came as a surprise in with my feeder guppies. i hope he turns into a small water frog that i can keep and not some huge toad. lol --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Christa Ciglan <cciglan@...> wrote: > > That's great lol! > > I should have specified Tropical FLAKES, sorry wasn't > thinking. Any idea what kind of frog it could be? > > I am pleased to hear you and baby are doing well. Had > you in my thoughts... really... > > CC > --- Amy <lovemyboys1976@...> wrote: > > > Ok he is doing great. I still have him in the tiny > > 3 gallon aquarium. > > I actually put some guppies in there so that they > > could get a bit > > bigger before turning into food. Well now I know > > what tadpoles eat. I > > kept about 10 runt guppies to fatten them up and for > > some odd reason I > > only have one left....hmmmm. LOL Yes the tadpole > > thanked me. They > > actually eat a variety of foods, well mine does > > anyways. I tried > > tropical pellets that sank to the bottom and he > > didn't touch them. So > > I fed the guppies Tropical Flakes and he went nuts > > eatting those. I > > fed him twice a day the flakes. I also put in some > > green algea sheet > > and he chewed on that. Oh and of course lets not > > forget his fresh > > supply of feeder guppies. Now it is time to drain > > out a bunch of the > > water so he can get up on to land. I keep watching > > every day for signs > > of him to start transforming into a frog. I just > > can't wait to see > > what kind of frog he turns into. > > > > > > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25952	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

That's one reason I really dig the nano tanks. A couple gallons isn't a catastrophy. Kate Debra <dmelton2@...> wrote: > I've been extraordinarily lucky in that the only time I came close to having a tank blowout, I was standing right next to it when it started. The bow across the top of my 55 gallon snapped with a sound like a .22 pistol shot Reading your post reminded me of the day my then 14 year old daughter called me at work and said "the fish tank just exploded and there is water everywhere. I was only five minutes away and when I got home the "exploded" tank (a 55 gallon) was about 70% empty, the fish were all still in the tank, and the floor was a mess. It appears there was tension on one of the Fluval hoses and it came apart and sucked the water out down to the intake. Easily fixed and since we pulled all our carpet out after the hurricane Katrina flooding the tiled floor was a simple mop job. Lesson learned, when cleaning Fluvals check the tension on your intake and output hoses (even if you don't think you need to). Deb Mississippi --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25953	From: Richdeer3 Pond Supplies	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

I can id with the broken tanks in a move. I was moving from NY to OK a few years ago and slipped on the ice with the big tank. And of course I had packed all the smaller tanks inside the larger one and cracked all 6 tanks! I hate ot even think about move my 160 gallon tank. It takes 2 people just to lift it to the floor. Stay warm, Gail Gail Hopkins Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com richdeer3@... Layaway for Spring --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25954	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

One word for BIG tanks... Acrylic! My 65G 4' long tank weighs less than 25 pounds. They use epoxy (much, much stronger than silicone) on the few seams they have (rounded front corners so no seams there), they are slightly flexible so they can give with any uneven floor issues without shattering. Yes, they scratch easier so you have to be gentle when cleaning them but even if they do get scratched, the surface scratches can be buffed out by hand. With glass, you would need specialized glass polishing equipment. I got my 65G from the eBay store for GlassCages.com. It was $125.00 including shipping. When I saw the UPS guy carrying this huge box up my front stairs, I though they sent me an empty box. I never realized just how lite it would be. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richdeer3 Pond Supplies Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim I can id with the broken tanks in a move. I was moving from NY to OK a few years ago and slipped on the ice with the big tank. And of course I had packed all the smaller tanks inside the larger one and cracked all 6 tanks! I hate ot even think about move my 160 gallon tank. It takes 2 people just to lift it to the floor. Stay warm, Gail Gail Hopkins Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> richdeer3@... <mailto:richdeer3%40yahoo.com> Layaway for Spring --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1286 - Release Date: 2/18/2008 6:49 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25955	From: kathy wells	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

Thanks for the info. I think my next tank purchase will be acrylic. "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: One word for BIG tanks... Acrylic! My 65G 4' long tank weighs less than 25 pounds. They use epoxy (much, much stronger than silicone) on the few seams they have (rounded front corners so no seams there), they are slightly flexible so they can give with any uneven floor issues without shattering. Yes, they scratch easier so you have to be gentle when cleaning them but even if they do get scratched, the surface scratches can be buffed out by hand. With glass, you would need specialized glass polishing equipment. I got my 65G from the eBay store for GlassCages.com. It was $125.00 including shipping. When I saw the UPS guy carrying this huge box up my front stairs, I though they sent me an empty box. I never realized just how lite it would be. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richdeer3 Pond Supplies Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim I can id with the broken tanks in a move. I was moving from NY to OK a few years ago and slipped on the ice with the big tank. And of course I had packed all the smaller tanks inside the larger one and cracked all 6 tanks! I hate ot even think about move my 160 gallon tank. It takes 2 people just to lift it to the floor. Stay warm, Gail Gail Hopkins Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com richdeer3@... Layaway for Spring --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1286 - Release Date: 2/18/2008 6:49 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25956	From: olesonjo	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: adopted goldfish

Hello, I am new to this group. I aquired two goldfish last spring, when someone moved out and left them behind:( One is gold and black, the other is gold, silver and black, sort of calico, they both have fan tails. The B/G one has big eyes. The tank is 20x10x12, and there is a airator. The filter/pump stopped working about a month or two ago. The water stays clean, and I add new water every few days. About three weeks ago, the B/G one started chasing the Calico one around the tank, and sort of biting at it. The calico seemed defenseless, and sometimes would just seem lethargic. I separated them for a while, but the chasing started again each time I put them back together. The calico is now in a separate bowl, but still seems wobbly and lethargic. Appetite is good. The other one seems fine, except for the aggressive behavior when they are together. Is that something normal, like maybe a courtship ritual, or what??? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I asked at the pet store, they had no idea. Thanks, Joanna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25957	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: adopted goldfish

Hi Joanna and welcome to the group and welcome to goldfish. First the good news... The behavior you were seeing could be mating. A male goldfish, when ready to mate, will develop breeding stars or tubercles on the leading rays of their pectoral fins and gill covers. These will be like little white bumps but only be on the gill covers and front (thick) edge of the pectoral (side) fins. The male will chase a female around nudging her in the anal fin area and the male can chase a female relentlessly and sometimes you will have to separate them to give the female some rest. This would be easier if you got a tank separator rather than moving one to a bowl. Oftentimes, this behavior can be prompted by a partial water change with warmer water so the fish think that spring has arrived. Now to the bad news... lol. You need to work on getting a much larger tank. Although your goldfish are probably stunted (not a good thing) and may not grow much more, they still need to be in a much larger tank than the 10G tank they are in right now. A 55G, (48"L x 12"W x 21"H) would be the minimum sized tank for two fancy goldfish. Try checking FreeCycle.org, Craigslist.org, Garage Sales, etc. for a used 55G tank. They are very common. Wal-Mart also sells a 55G complete kit at a fair price. While you are working on getting the bigger tank, you need to do at least twice weekly 25% PWC's (partial water changes). Just topping off the water does not remove the toxins and waste from their tank. You also need to get your filter working or get a new one. Get one rated for at least a 20G tank. Even with the new filter system, you will need to do the twice weekly 25% PWC's. When you get the new tank and filter for the 55G, also use the filter from your current tank since goldfish need over-filtration. Also, with goldfish in an undersized tank, you need to be careful when doing filter maintenance so you don't put your tank into a mini-cycle each time you change out the filter. Go to my blog and read my article on "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". Also, while at my blog, go to the page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and take one or both of the online tutorials which will walk you through all the basics of fish keeping. Another good thing to add to the 10G tank would be some live plants. Go with Anacharis and just leave it floating on the top (it doesn't need to be planted). It will help remove some of the nitrogenous waste and CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. By leaving it floating, it will be harder for the goldfish to eat it too quickly but they will. Live plants are a natural part of a goldfish diet. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] adopted goldfish Hello, I am new to this group. I aquired two goldfish last spring, when someone moved out and left them behind:( One is gold and black, the other is gold, silver and black, sort of calico, they both have fan tails. The B/G one has big eyes. The tank is 20x10x12, and there is a airator. The filter/pump stopped working about a month or two ago. The water stays clean, and I add new water every few days. About three weeks ago, the B/G one started chasing the Calico one around the tank, and sort of biting at it. The calico seemed defenseless, and sometimes would just seem lethargic. I separated them for a while, but the chasing started again each time I put them back together. The calico is now in a separate bowl, but still seems wobbly and lethargic. Appetite is good. The other one seems fine, except for the aggressive behavior when they are together. Is that something normal, like maybe a courtship ritual, or what??? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I asked at the pet store, they had no idea. Thanks, Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1286 - Release Date: 2/18/2008 6:49 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25958	From: tomentosus	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: marine salt for feshwater aquiariums

Hi, Do anyone know if is dangerous to use marine salt for freshwater aquariums? I normally use salt for freshwater but I have some of the marine mix... I just want to be sure. thanks, Hugo

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/19/2008
Subject: Re: marine salt for feshwater aquiariums

It's not dangerous per se but it should only be used in moderation for certain FW or brackish water fish. What were you going to use it for? If you go to my blog, in the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" blog, I have several articles on "Salt or No Salt". While salt is OK to use as an occasional treatment for purely FW fish, it's not good to use all the time since it disrupts their osmoregulatory system which can cause stress and health issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tomentosus Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] marine salt for feshwater aquiariums Hi, Do anyone know if is dangerous to use marine salt for freshwater aquariums? I normally use salt for freshwater but I have some of the marine mix... I just want to be sure. thanks, Hugo No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8 - Release Date: 2/19/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25960	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: marine salt for freshwater aquariums

No, there is no problem. I use the marine mix quite a bit for the FW tanks when I need to salt the tanks. I do think it is probably better for the fish and plants since it also adds many trace elements that would not be available in regular salt. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tomentosus Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] marine salt for feshwater aquiariums Hi, Do anyone know if is dangerous to use marine salt for freshwater aquariums? I normally use salt for freshwater but I have some of the marine mix... I just want to be sure. thanks, Hugo Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25961	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: marine salt for feshwater aquiariums

Hi Hugo, No, the use of marine salt for freshwater aquariums is not dangerous in the least, and is more beneficial for freshwater fish than plain table salt in times when its needed and used in the proper temporary quantities. Marine salt has all the trace elements (some 70 of them) in it, along with a good quantity of magnesium sulfate (MgSO$), in addition to good old sodium chloride/plain salt. At times when a freshwater fish is injured, the addition of salt (and especially marine salt) will help stabilize the fish's osmotic pressure, adding needed electrolytes back into its system and reducing its stress -- allowing it to heal faster (and surer) rather than allowing the stress to continue to a point beyond recovery. The minimum token amount generally recommended for temporary use is in the vicinity of 1 Tbsp. per 5 gallons as a bath for the duration of a disease, which is safe for most fish. Bear in mind, there are some fish such as Cory & Brokis Catfish, Otocinclus, Raphael Catfish, Loaches and most Tetras which do not kindly tolerate too much salt beyond this, and as the solution increases plants do not tolerate salt either. Many plants will tolerate up to a 0.3% solution (or 2 3/4 tsp per gallon) of salt. Some injuries and/or more stubborn diseases may require a stronger dip of up to 4 or even 6 tsp per gallon for brief periods (15 -- 20 minutes), depending on the species and how they tolerate it. A 0.3% solution will also reverse the deleterious effects of Brown- Blood Syndrome when ammonia/nitrite quanties have been allowed to be elevated to toxic levels, damaging the fish's red blood cells rendering them incapable of exchanging gases through the gills. On the other hand, a permanent, but relatively minute (as little as 1/8 tsp per gallon) amount of salt kept in the freshwater aquarium at all times will prevent Brown Blood from occurring at all in the first place. This should not be taken as a license not to do proper preventative maintenance, but is just something to keep in mind in for instance a tank is temporarily overpopulated for whatever odd reason (perhaps your main tank broke overnight and you need to add all fish to one smaller aquarium for the short term). Briefly getting back to both my second paragraph and to the 0.3% salt solution, which should never be used long-term, in times of stress it reduces the massive influx of water into a fish. Because the blood tissues of a fish are more concentrated than the water around them (0.9% is isotonic), it's a law of nature that water will try to move INTO the fish to try to equalize the concentrations of water inside and outside of the fish. Under stress, and especially were the skin or other tissue is damaged, the water influx is greater so the kidney function may be impaired. Water of a salinity of 0.3% is much closer to the osmolality of the fish (0.9%) than purer freshwater, so less water is being pushed into the fish's wounds, gills and skin. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomentosus" <escobar73@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Do anyone know if is dangerous to use marine salt for freshwater > aquariums? I normally use salt for freshwater but I have some of the > marine mix... I just want to be sure. > > thanks, > > Hugo >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25962	From: pinkvock	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

- Wow, I am so glad I read this today, I live in an old house, the floors are springy. I've got a 30gal tank, but I can see the water sloshing in there when my 30lb dog trots past it. It's on an outside wall but I am not sure it's load bearing. It has been in that location for about a year now, i've had the tank since July 2006 so far so good but I have a bad feeling it's only a matter of time. Yikes. I used to like to work out in my living room and since I put that tank in there and noticed how much movement there was from just my medium sized dog moving about, i've been scared too(for good reason apparently). Been mentioning to my husband that I thought we should try to do something to add support to the floor but he doesn't seem to react to that idea very much. I don't think he believes me when i've told him aquariums can break. For a tank that size in this situation do you think I should switch to acrylic? I checked out that website that Lenny wrote in here and the around 30 gal sizes are reasonable. I could check out the size of my stand and just replace it with the one that will fit on it. -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > One word for BIG tanks... Acrylic! > > My 65G 4' long tank weighs less than 25 pounds. They use epoxy (much, much > stronger than silicone) on the few seams they have (rounded front corners so > no seams there), they are slightly flexible so they can give with any uneven > floor issues without shattering. Yes, they scratch easier so you have to be > gentle when cleaning them but even if they do get scratched, the surface > scratches can be buffed out by hand. With glass, you would need specialized > glass polishing equipment. > > I got my 65G from the eBay store for GlassCages.com. It was $125.00 > including shipping. When I saw the UPS guy carrying this huge box up my > front stairs, I though they sent me an empty box. I never realized just how > lite it would be. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Richdeer3 Pond Supplies > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim > > I can id with the broken tanks in a move. I was moving from NY to OK a few > years ago and slipped on the ice with the big tank. And of course I had > packed all the smaller tanks inside the larger one and cracked all 6 tanks! > I hate ot even think about move my 160 gallon tank. It takes 2 people just > to lift it to the floor. Stay warm, Gail > > Gail Hopkins > Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> > richdeer3@... <mailto:richdeer3%40yahoo.com> Layaway for Spring > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1286 - Release Date: 2/18/2008 > 6:49 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25963	From: babsdvs	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Newbie

Hi group!! I am a new member from Jacksonville, Florida and I recently set up a 30 gal tank - going on week 4 now. My plants look good, water looks good, temp is right, but darn if my Nitrite level remains a little high. Even with the addition of bacteria and practically starving my few fish to death (feeding once - every other day), I don't know if it will ever get to zero. I'm hoping I can have other fish someday beside the 5 zebra danios who are suffering along with me - no doubt. Any help out there??

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25964	From: splitscreenvol	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: marine tank ph

hi i have recently set up a marine tank , i had a nano tank and decided to go bigger so bought a 3 ft tank , its been set up for 4 weeks cycling , got the water tested at a local aquarium yesterday everything was fine apart from the ph which was at 7.1 . basically was told to buy a buffer which would sort it , it did for around an hour 8.2/3 then the ph started to drop again 8 hrs later was back at 7.1 any ideas ?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25965	From: joelsmum1999	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Fuzz on my fish?

Hello! I am new to the group, and this is my first post so I apologise if I do something the wrong way. I have a question about a new pleco we have. We just got home from our pet shop with a sail-fin pleco (yes I know it will get big, but I am assured that I can bring him back for a smaller one if/when he does), and it looks like there is a light brown coating on parts of the fish. Is this normal? What is it? The fish is in a 1/2 gallon container while I adjust him to our tank water & temp, but I am worried that maybe I should not put him in if he is sick. The brown stuff is not totally covering the fish, but is on his sides and back and the fins. When I touched the fish on these parts it did not feel slimey. Am I worrying about nothing? Our tank is a 10 gallon with a bunch of guppies, a clown loach, a small pleco of some kind, and some snails. There is elodia (sp?) in there too. Thanks, -Dani

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25966	From: the_skull_of_truth	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: FISH FORUM!

http://ifish.hotgoo.net/index.htm NOT a virus

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25967	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

What kind of stand do you have your current 30G on? Wood, wrought iron, etc.? It sounds like you may not be on a load bearing wall which isn't a problem, normally, for a 30G but if your tank is showing evidence of bouncing around, then the next thing you need to find out is if your stand is structurally sound. If the stand is solid and does not warp or twist when the floor does, then it will not transfer that warping or twisting to the tank. If you could take some pictures of the side view of your tank and wall showing the parallel to see if the tank is leaning away from the wall. If it is, then you could use some kind of metal straps going from the wall (studs) to the tank stand to pull it back towards the wall so it's level. Then put some shims under the front of the stand to support that area since it will probably be raised off the floor a little. By doing this... adding the straps... from the studs to the tank stand, there should be less chance of the tank/stand bouncing when the floor bounces... or better yet, move the tank/stand to a more solid section of flooring, preferably parallel with a load bearing wall. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pinkvock Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim - Wow, I am so glad I read this today, I live in an old house, the floors are springy. I've got a 30gal tank, but I can see the water sloshing in there when my 30lb dog trots past it. It's on an outside wall but I am not sure it's load bearing. It has been in that location for about a year now, i've had the tank since July 2006 so far so good but I have a bad feeling it's only a matter of time. Yikes. I used to like to work out in my living room and since I put that tank in there and noticed how much movement there was from just my medium sized dog moving about, i've been scared too(for good reason apparently). Been mentioning to my husband that I thought we should try to do something to add support to the floor but he doesn't seem to react to that idea very much. I don't think he believes me when i've told him aquariums can break. For a tank that size in this situation do you think I should switch to acrylic? I checked out that website that Lenny wrote in here and the around 30 gal sizes are reasonable. I could check out the size of my stand and just replace it with the one that will fit on it. -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > One word for BIG tanks... Acrylic! > > My 65G 4' long tank weighs less than 25 pounds. They use epoxy (much, much > stronger than silicone) on the few seams they have (rounded front corners so > no seams there), they are slightly flexible so they can give with any uneven > floor issues without shattering. Yes, they scratch easier so you have to be > gentle when cleaning them but even if they do get scratched, the surface > scratches can be buffed out by hand. With glass, you would need specialized > glass polishing equipment. > > I got my 65G from the eBay store for GlassCages.com. It was $125.00 > including shipping. When I saw the UPS guy carrying this huge box up my > front stairs, I though they sent me an empty box. I never realized just how > lite it would be. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Richdeer3 Pond Supplies > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim > > I can id with the broken tanks in a move. I was moving from NY to OK a few > years ago and slipped on the ice with the big tank. And of course I had > packed all the smaller tanks inside the larger one and cracked all 6 tanks! > I hate ot even think about move my 160 gallon tank. It takes 2 people just > to lift it to the floor. Stay warm, Gail > > Gail Hopkins > Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com > <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> > > richdeer3@... <mailto:richdeer3%40yahoo.com> Layaway for Spring > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1288 - Release Date: 2/19/2008 8:47 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25968	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

I would not, somehow I manage to scratch even my glass aquariums on a routine basis. I can’t imagine acrylic! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pinkvock Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim - Wow, I am so glad I read this today, I live in an old house, the floors are springy. I've got a 30gal tank, but I can see the water sloshing in there when my 30lb dog trots past it. It's on an outside wall but I am not sure it's load bearing. It has been in that location for about a year now, i've had the tank since July 2006 so far so good but I have a bad feeling it's only a matter of time. Yikes. I used to like to work out in my living room and since I put that tank in there and noticed how much movement there was from just my medium sized dog moving about, i've been scared too(for good reason apparently). Been mentioning to my husband that I thought we should try to do something to add support to the floor but he doesn't seem to react to that idea very much. I don't think he believes me when i've told him aquariums can break. For a tank that size in this situation do you think I should switch to acrylic? I checked out that website that Lenny wrote in here and the around 30 gal sizes are reasonable. I could check out the size of my stand and just replace it with the one that will fit on it. -- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > One word for BIG tanks... Acrylic! > > My 65G 4' long tank weighs less than 25 pounds. They use epoxy (much, much > stronger than silicone) on the few seams they have (rounded front corners so > no seams there), they are slightly flexible so they can give with any uneven > floor issues without shattering. Yes, they scratch easier so you have to be > gentle when cleaning them but even if they do get scratched, the surface > scratches can be buffed out by hand. With glass, you would need specialized > glass polishing equipment. > > I got my 65G from the eBay store for GlassCages.com. It was $125.00 > including shipping. When I saw the UPS guy carrying this huge box up my > front stairs, I though they sent me an empty box. I never realized just how > lite it would be. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Richdeer3 Pond Supplies > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim > > I can id with the broken tanks in a move. I was moving from NY to OK a few > years ago and slipped on the ice with the big tank. And of course I had > packed all the smaller tanks inside the larger one and cracked all 6 tanks! > I hate ot even think about move my 160 gallon tank. It takes 2 people just > to lift it to the floor. Stay warm, Gail > > Gail Hopkins > Http://www.richdeer <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> 3pondsupplies.com <Http://www.richdeer <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> 3pondsupplies.com> > richdeer3@... <mailto:richdeer3%40yahoo.com> Layaway for Spring > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1286 - Release Date: 2/18/2008 > 6:49 PM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25969	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

Hi Donna, What are you doing to scratch the glass? I either use sponge-on-a-stick with the teflon scrubby on one side for my glass tanks. I ONLY use sponges on the acrylic tank and then you have to be very careful near the substrate that you don't pick up a piece of gravel in the sponge. After several years, no scratches on the inside and only one small one on the outside due to my own fault. Remember with any tank, whether glass or acrylic, give it a 12" perimeter of no-walk-by room so you don't ever walk by the tank with anything in your arms, etc., so you don't accidentally scratch the acrylic or bump the glass. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim I would not, somehow I manage to scratch even my glass aquariums on a routine basis. I can’t imagine acrylic! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of pinkvock Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim - Wow, I am so glad I read this today, I live in an old house, the floors are springy. I've got a 30gal tank, but I can see the water sloshing in there when my 30lb dog trots past it. It's on an outside wall but I am not sure it's load bearing. It has been in that location for about a year now, i've had the tank since July 2006 so far so good but I have a bad feeling it's only a matter of time. Yikes. I used to like to work out in my living room and since I put that tank in there and noticed how much movement there was from just my medium sized dog moving about, i've been scared too(for good reason apparently). Been mentioning to my husband that I thought we should try to do something to add support to the floor but he doesn't seem to react to that idea very much. I don't think he believes me when i've told him aquariums can break. For a tank that size in this situation do you think I should switch to acrylic? I checked out that website that Lenny wrote in here and the around 30 gal sizes are reasonable. I could check out the size of my stand and just replace it with the one that will fit on it. -- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > One word for BIG tanks... Acrylic! > > My 65G 4' long tank weighs less than 25 pounds. They use epoxy (much, much > stronger than silicone) on the few seams they have (rounded front corners so > no seams there), they are slightly flexible so they can give with any uneven > floor issues without shattering. Yes, they scratch easier so you have to be > gentle when cleaning them but even if they do get scratched, the surface > scratches can be buffed out by hand. With glass, you would need specialized > glass polishing equipment. > > I got my 65G from the eBay store for GlassCages.com. It was $125.00 > including shipping. When I saw the UPS guy carrying this huge box up my > front stairs, I though they sent me an empty box. I never realized just how > lite it would be. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Richdeer3 Pond Supplies > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim > > I can id with the broken tanks in a move. I was moving from NY to OK a few > years ago and slipped on the ice with the big tank. And of course I had > packed all the smaller tanks inside the larger one and cracked all 6 tanks! > I hate ot even think about move my 160 gallon tank. It takes 2 people just > to lift it to the floor. Stay warm, Gail > > Gail Hopkins > Http://www.richdeer <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com > <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> > 3pondsupplies.com <Http://www.richdeer <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> > 3pondsupplies.com> > richdeer3@... <mailto:richdeer3%40yahoo.com> Layaway for Spring > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1288 - Release Date: 2/19/2008 8:47 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25970	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: Fuzz on my fish?

Dani, I am not familiar with anything that matches your description. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist or is harmless, just that I have not seen it. All fish should be quarantined for at least two weeks before being added to the general population to ensure it is not carrying any disease or parasites to pass along to its new tank mates. A lot of us will keep a bare 10 gallon tank hanging around just for that purpose. It also helps when you need to treat a fish for injuries, disease or parasites, or even breeding. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joelsmum1999 Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fuzz on my fish? Hello! I am new to the group, and this is my first post so I apologise if I do something the wrong way. I have a question about a new pleco we have. We just got home from our pet shop with a sail-fin pleco (yes I know it will get big, but I am assured that I can bring him back for a smaller one if/when he does), and it looks like there is a light brown coating on parts of the fish. Is this normal? What is it? The fish is in a 1/2 gallon container while I adjust him to our tank water & temp, but I am worried that maybe I should not put him in if he is sick. The brown stuff is not totally covering the fish, but is on his sides and back and the fins. When I touched the fish on these parts it did not feel slimey. Am I worrying about nothing? Our tank is a 10 gallon with a bunch of guppies, a clown loach, a small pleco of some kind, and some snails. There is elodia (sp?) in there too. Thanks, -Dani Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25971	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: marine tank ph

You are going to need to get a handle on your pH. One method of helping to maintain a higher pH is to use dolomite or crushed coral as a substrate. There are a number of factors that will affect pH, and being able to maintain it. First, take a look at your tap water. What is the pH coming out of the tap. What is it after you have left it to stand for 24 hours? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of splitscreenvol Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] marine tank ph hi i have recently set up a marine tank , i had a nano tank and decided to go bigger so bought a 3 ft tank , its been set up for 4 weeks cycling , got the water tested at a local aquarium yesterday everything was fine apart from the ph which was at 7.1 . basically was told to buy a buffer which would sort it , it did for around an hour 8.2/3 then the ph started to drop again 8 hrs later was back at 7.1 any ideas ? Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25972	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/20/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

When I was living on the second floor of an old farmhouse, I used some hardwood flooring, running perpendicular to the hardwood flooring in the room to give the tanks more stability, and to help distribute the weight more evenly across that section of floor. In the years I lived there, never had a mishap. I never glued it down, nor nailed it as one should do, but just put it together with the tongue and groove placed together. I only had some problems with the outside row of boards coming free occasionally. Depending on where you live, it may be a bit difficult to find good hardwood flooring, since a lot of it seems to be veneered these days on a cheaper wood. This stuff was the real thing--solid oak. I gave it a nice stain and urethane coated it before putting the tanks on it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pinkvock Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim - Wow, I am so glad I read this today, I live in an old house, the floors are springy. I've got a 30gal tank, but I can see the water sloshing in there when my 30lb dog trots past it. It's on an outside wall but I am not sure it's load bearing. It has been in that location for about a year now, i've had the tank since July 2006 so far so good but I have a bad feeling it's only a matter of time. Yikes. I used to like to work out in my living room and since I put that tank in there and noticed how much movement there was from just my medium sized dog moving about, i've been scared too(for good reason apparently). Been mentioning to my husband that I thought we should try to do something to add support to the floor but he doesn't seem to react to that idea very much. I don't think he believes me when i've told him aquariums can break. For a tank that size in this situation do you think I should switch to acrylic? I checked out that website that Lenny wrote in here and the around 30 gal sizes are reasonable. I could check out the size of my stand and just replace it with the one that will fit on it. -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > One word for BIG tanks... Acrylic! > > My 65G 4' long tank weighs less than 25 pounds. They use epoxy (much, much > stronger than silicone) on the few seams they have (rounded front corners so > no seams there), they are slightly flexible so they can give with any uneven > floor issues without shattering. Yes, they scratch easier so you have to be > gentle when cleaning them but even if they do get scratched, the surface > scratches can be buffed out by hand. With glass, you would need specialized > glass polishing equipment. > > I got my 65G from the eBay store for GlassCages.com. It was $125.00 > including shipping. When I saw the UPS guy carrying this huge box up my > front stairs, I though they sent me an empty box. I never realized just how > lite it would be. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Richdeer3 Pond Supplies > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim > > I can id with the broken tanks in a move. I was moving from NY to OK a few > years ago and slipped on the ice with the big tank. And of course I had > packed all the smaller tanks inside the larger one and cracked all 6 tanks! > I hate ot even think about move my 160 gallon tank. It takes 2 people just > to lift it to the floor. Stay warm, Gail > > Gail Hopkins > Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> > richdeer3@... <mailto:richdeer3%40yahoo.com> Layaway for Spring > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1286 - Release Date: 2/18/2008 > 6:49 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25973	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim

The sponge picks up a grain in spite of care. Scratches inside only. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim Hi Donna, What are you doing to scratch the glass? I either use sponge-on-a-stick with the teflon scrubby on one side for my glass tanks. I ONLY use sponges on the acrylic tank and then you have to be very careful near the substrate that you don't pick up a piece of gravel in the sponge. After several years, no scratches on the inside and only one small one on the outside due to my own fault. Remember with any tank, whether glass or acrylic, give it a 12" perimeter of no-walk-by room so you don't ever walk by the tank with anything in your arms, etc., so you don't accidentally scratch the acrylic or bump the glass. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim I would not, somehow I manage to scratch even my glass aquariums on a routine basis. I can't imagine acrylic! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of pinkvock Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim - Wow, I am so glad I read this today, I live in an old house, the floors are springy. I've got a 30gal tank, but I can see the water sloshing in there when my 30lb dog trots past it. It's on an outside wall but I am not sure it's load bearing. It has been in that location for about a year now, i've had the tank since July 2006 so far so good but I have a bad feeling it's only a matter of time. Yikes. I used to like to work out in my living room and since I put that tank in there and noticed how much movement there was from just my medium sized dog moving about, i've been scared too(for good reason apparently). Been mentioning to my husband that I thought we should try to do something to add support to the floor but he doesn't seem to react to that idea very much. I don't think he believes me when i've told him aquariums can break. For a tank that size in this situation do you think I should switch to acrylic? I checked out that website that Lenny wrote in here and the around 30 gal sizes are reasonable. I could check out the size of my stand and just replace it with the one that will fit on it. -- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > One word for BIG tanks... Acrylic! > > My 65G 4' long tank weighs less than 25 pounds. They use epoxy (much, much > stronger than silicone) on the few seams they have (rounded front corners so > no seams there), they are slightly flexible so they can give with any uneven > floor issues without shattering. Yes, they scratch easier so you have to be > gentle when cleaning them but even if they do get scratched, the surface > scratches can be buffed out by hand. With glass, you would need specialized > glass polishing equipment. > > I got my 65G from the eBay store for GlassCages.com. It was $125.00 > including shipping. When I saw the UPS guy carrying this huge box up my > front stairs, I though they sent me an empty box. I never realized just how > lite it would be. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Richdeer3 Pond Supplies > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I can totally relate to pain in the 4$$ Jim > > I can id with the broken tanks in a move. I was moving from NY to OK a few > years ago and slipped on the ice with the big tank. And of course I had > packed all the smaller tanks inside the larger one and cracked all 6 tanks! > I hate ot even think about move my 160 gallon tank. It takes 2 people just > to lift it to the floor. Stay warm, Gail > > Gail Hopkins > Http://www.richdeer <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com > <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> > 3pondsupplies.com <Http://www.richdeer <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com <Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> > 3pondsupplies.com> > richdeer3@... <mailto:richdeer3%40yahoo.com> Layaway for Spring > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1288 - Release Date: 2/19/2008 8:47 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25974	From: joelsmum1999	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Fuzz on my fish?

Hello Steve, Yes, the extra tank would be a great idea for quarantine - maybe I can beg one off the pet-shop guy - he has just moved to new shop and is getting rid of lots of stuff! Thanks for the advive - I will try the quaratine idea. -Dani --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Dani, > > I am not familiar with anything that matches your description. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist or is harmless, just that I have not seen it. > > All fish should be quarantined for at least two weeks before being added to the general population to ensure it is not carrying any disease or parasites to pass along to its new tank mates. A lot of us will keep a bare 10 gallon tank hanging around just for that purpose. It also helps when you need to treat a fish for injuries, disease or parasites, or even breeding. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joelsmum1999 > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fuzz on my fish? > > Hello! > > I am new to the group, and this is my first post so I apologise if I do > something the wrong way. I have a question about a new pleco we have. > > We just got home from our pet shop with a sail-fin pleco (yes I know it > will get big, but I am assured that I can bring him back for a smaller > one if/when he does), and it looks like there is a light brown coating > on parts of the fish. Is this normal? What is it? The fish is in a 1/2 > gallon container while I adjust him to our tank water & temp, but I am > worried that maybe I should not put him in if he is sick. The brown > stuff is not totally covering the fish, but is on his sides and back > and the fins. When I touched the fish on these parts it did not feel > slimey. Am I worrying about nothing? > > Our tank is a 10 gallon with a bunch of guppies, a clown loach, a small > pleco of some kind, and some snails. There is elodia (sp?) in there too. > > Thanks, > > -Dani

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25975	From: JFazio	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: white on mouth of tetra/angels

hello: After purchasing and quarantining two black glowlight tetras a few weeks ago, I am noticing that one has a white puffy mouth. I've read up and have determined that it may be mouth fungus. I've treated both fish with Marcyn plus. That didn't work. Now I'm using Maroxy, but after 3 days, that doesn't seem to be clearing it up either. These two are very easily stressed, still, which probably isn't helping things. I take it's because I only purchased two, vs a school. I did that because the quarantine is only a 10 gallon. Update on my pair of Angels: they seem to be getting ready to mate again. For those who helped the last time, my plan is to let them all be in the 55 gallon as I don't know how to prepare the corners of the tank (where they lay the eggs) for any upcoming pending births. And if they are indeed both of the same sex, I will get all stressed out for nothing since the eggs won't ever be fertile (from what I read the last time). Thanks. Jeannie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25976	From: joe t	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: What happened to 4 neons at once?

I am sitting back reading all the messages on this subject and I have to say I can see the validity of everyone's statement. John is saying don't scare the beginners before they even start. I agree. But the seasoned fish keepers, (yes, John, I know you are one, also) are, obviously, really into this art and love fish. Just like anyone else may be in to dogs, horses, etc. A dog, for instance, should not be kept in an apartment all day long waiting for someone to come home and take it out so it can relieve itself. But how many people do it? You bet. Too many. Do they love the dog? I believe they do. Are they good to the dog? I am sure they try to be. But the dog has to hold his bowels and urine till they come home. Is that good for the dog? No it isn't. Is it good that the dog is getting fat from no or very little exercise? No. But some may say he looks well fed and cared for. My point is fish enthusiasts feel the same way about fish. We can't truthfully tell someone inquiring that it is OK to put an Oscar or a Pleco in a 10 - 15 gallon tank when we know damn well it's not right. I don't think you would either, John. Now if the inquirer is going to listen, that's another story. I've read sound advice given to people here. Then I read the same inquirer asking for advise on "what they should do now..." cause they went right ahead and did what was suggested they should not. So I also agree with our experts here. If someone is asking about something that they KNOW is not going to work, they tell them the truth. If the advise is not taken, they do what they want and deal with the consequence. joe t --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie

With a 30G tank, only 5 ZD's and live plants, I would think you shouldn't be getting much of any readings as far as ammonia/nitrite. What kind of test kit are you using? What are the actual nitrite levels? Did you keep a log showing your "cycle"? What kind/brand of "bacteria" did you add? 90% of them do not work as advertised and that could be part of your problem. Are you doing frequent PWC's (partial water changes)? Have you tested your tap water baseline to see if you might be getting nitrites from your tap water? You are likely getting ammonia from your tap water since ammonia is one part of chloramine which most large city utilities use instead of chlorine. Go to my blog and I have an article on how to establish your tap water baseline. While you are there, check out the page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" as there is a lot of good info for newbies and experienced fish keepers as well. Also realize that each time you add more fish, you will incur a new nitrogen cycle since your existing nitrifying bacteria colony will only have grown to a size capable of handling the existing bioload so when you add more fish, you will get a new ammonia and nitrite spike. This is the reason so many are urging people to fishless cycle a tank using plain ammonia so you can build a large colony without having to put fish through this arduous process and then once you build a large colony, you can simply add all the fish/bioload your tank can safely handle. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie Hi group!! I am a new member from Jacksonville, Florida and I recently set up a 30 gal tank - going on week 4 now. My plants look good, water looks good, temp is right, but darn if my Nitrite level remains a little high. Even with the addition of bacteria and practically starving my few fish to death (feeding once - every other day), I don't know if it will ever get to zero. I'm hoping I can have other fish someday beside the 5 zebra danios who are suffering along with me - no doubt. Any help out there?? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25978	From: margo0621	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Just stardted :)

I just started. We bought a filter for our 44.7 gal tank. It is so noisy. Plese, give me the name brand for a nice filter. Thank you very much.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25979	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Just stardted :)

I bought a Aqueon. Its so quiet that I have to look at the water to make sure its running. Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of margo0621 Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just stardted :) I just started. We bought a filter for our 44.7 gal tank. It is so noisy. Plese, give me the name brand for a nice filter. Thank you very much. Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25980	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Just stardted :)

I have Rena Filstar Canister filters on two of my tanks. They are quiet and competitively priced if you shop around. I actually got my best price from PetsMart.com and then used the printed page to get the actual in-stock unit from my local store at the same price. Saved nearly 50%. For HOB's, the AquaClear units are very well made, have large reservoirs for holding a lot more filter media compared to other HOB's. Do not get stuck with a system with little bitty filter cartridges that they then try to sell you on constantly changing the filter cartridges every two weeks. That is BAD for your fish as it can put your tank into a mini-cycle each time you change out the filter. Read my blog article on "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of margo0621 Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just stardted :) I just started. We bought a filter for our 44.7 gal tank. It is so noisy. Plese, give me the name brand for a nice filter. Thank you very much. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25981	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie

In a message dated 2/21/2008 12:04:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Have you tested your tap water baseline to see if you might be getting nitrites from your tap water? Thank God for this group. And yep, it was as SIMPLE as testing my tap water. Ironically I don't drink the tap water and why would I think it suitable for fish? I have done so many partial water changes - only to add the same crap right back in. DUH. My poor fish thank you and I do too. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25982	From: sheriartist57	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: gourami fry,3 days old

Now what do I do? The father is still keeping all other fish away from site of bubble nest,and mom is keeping watch over middle of tank.The fry are so tiny,except for the tails they look like bubbles.Do I leave them in the tank with dad,who seems to be very attentive,even gives me his mean look when I feed them,or try to take them out? I have always had live bearers.Any advice? They are warm,have 1/2 55 gallon tank to themselves,plenty of oxygen and slow moving filter.Do they all hatch at same time,or over a period of time?thanks,sheri

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25983	From: sheriartist57	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Dwarf Gourami Babies

Forgot to specify

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25984	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie

Once your tank is fully cycled, doing a weekly or bi-weekly 25% PWC will not add much ammonia or nitrite to the water and it will be almost immediately converted to nitrates by your N-bacteria in your filter system and on the surface areas of your tank. Plus your live plants will utilize some or all of the nitrogenous compounds as a food source for the plants. Oh yeah... God says "You're welcome!". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie In a message dated 2/21/2008 12:04:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Have you tested your tap water baseline to see if you might be getting nitrites from your tap water? Thank God for this group. And yep, it was as SIMPLE as testing my tap water. Ironically I don't drink the tap water and why would I think it suitable for fish? I have done so many partial water changes - only to add the same crap right back in. DUH. My poor fish thank you and I do too. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25985	From: asbo032000	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: OH DEAR

AS YOU KNOW I HAVE A 4FT TANK WITH TROPICALS IN AND ANOTHER 4 FT WITH TROPICALS IN, WELL I DID HAVE A 3FT TANK WITH GOLDIES IN BUT THEY DIED OF FIN ROT/WHITE SPOT! SO NOW I'M THINKIN WHAT SHALL I PUT IN THERE NOW??????

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25986	From: Jenn	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Blue-green algae

Hello all. Just wondering if anything out there will eat blue-green algae? I have some on the only plastic plant in the tank (right up at the top of the water). I cleaned it off of the plant but was wondering if there was someone I could add to the tank that would view it as a buffet... Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25987	From: olesonjo	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: adopted goldfish

Hi Lenny, Thanks so much. I don't see any white bumps, but anyway, I will look into the tank divider as well as a larger tank. But, not sure where I will put it! LOL. And I'm working on the filter, live plants, and water changing, tutorials etc.. Thanks so much, I'll let you know how we do. Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > First the good news... > A male goldfish, when ready to mate, will develop breeding stars or tubercles on the >leading rays of their pectoral fins and gill covers >This would be easier if you got a tank separator > > > > Now to the bad news... lol. > > You need to work on getting a much larger tank. A > 55G, (48"L x 12"W x 21"H) would be the minimum sized tank for two fancy > goldfish. > You also need to get > your filter working or get a new one. > > Go to my blog and read my article on "Filter > Maintenance and Cleaning". Also, while at my blog, go to the page "A to Z > of Fish Keeping" and take one or both of the online tutorials which will > walk you through all the basics of fish keeping. > > Live plants are a natural part of a goldfish diet. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25988	From: sheriartist57	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Blue-green algae

I don't know what else you have in your tanks,but my platies love algae.They keep their tank spotless,and I always use them to cycle a new tank.Since I don't want anymore big cats,and some of the smaller ones are hard to get locally,I just use the platies.I have a clown loach in two tanks,and they are great for algae or snails,but my corey cats haven't faired well from LFS. Some of my tanks have real plants and some artificial,but platies do well in either. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: > > Hello all. Just wondering if anything out there will eat blue-green > algae? I have some on the only plastic plant in the tank (right up at > the top of the water). I cleaned it off of the plant but was > wondering if there was someone I could add to the tank that would view > it as a buffet... > > Jenn >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25989	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Blue-green algae

If it's actually BGA (blue green algae), it's not actually an algae but rather cyanobacteria. Here's a detailed "thread" all about it and how to get rid of it. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/cyanobacteria.html Like most problems that pop up in a tank, adding a new fish or critter will not solve the problem. In fact, it's the worst thing to do. First you have to determine the underlying factor(s) that caused the problem and fix them. If it's water quality issues leading to the problem, then you certainly do not want to add any more fish. Tell us more about your tank, stocking, recent water test results (before a PWC), maintenance and PWC regimen, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Blue-green algae Hello all. Just wondering if anything out there will eat blue-green algae? I have some on the only plastic plant in the tank (right up at the top of the water). I cleaned it off of the plant but was wondering if there was someone I could add to the tank that would view it as a buffet... Jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25990	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Salt Water tanks for Beginners

I've heard two separate things about salt water tanks and beginners: 1) "Don't try it, they're hard for even someone experienced in freshwater fish." 2) "It's a lie, salt water tanks are perfect for beginners." I was wondering if y'all would be kind enough to talk about your personal experiences with salt water tanks. Thanks! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25991	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: gourami fry,3 days old

Sheri, Since your fry are three days old, the eggs that are going to hatch have probably all done so--they hatch at about the same time. Your problem is going to be the father--he will only protect the fry for a short time after they become free-swimming. After that, he will eat them (and those that escape are in danger from the 'other fish' you mention). Moving the fry would probably not be successful--they are very sensitive to change. Removing the parents is usually recommended. Since you mention other fish in the tank, removing everyone might not be practical. If it were me, I would probably just let nature run its course in this case and prepare the breeding pair for another go under a controlled circumstance in a separate breeding tank. tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sheriartist57" <sheriartist57@...> wrote: > > Now what do I do? The father is still keeping all other fish away from > site of bubble nest,and mom is keeping watch over middle of tank.The > fry are so tiny,except for the tails they look like bubbles.Do I leave > them in the tank with dad,who seems to be very attentive,even gives me > his mean look when I feed them,or try to take them out? I have always > had live bearers.Any advice? They are warm,have 1/2 55 gallon tank to > themselves,plenty of oxygen and slow moving filter.Do they all hatch > at same time,or over a period of time?thanks,sheri >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25992	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......

I found out how addictive having fish is! My 10 gallon hex tank I asked about before is doing good, I think. Have not lost any fish in a while and things look really good. The fish look good, the water looks good, the live plants look good. Now, I had posted that i was looking for aquarium supplies because I had picked up a cheap 20 gallon rectangular tank and wanted to get it fish ready. I received an email from someone on Freecycle saying they had a really dirty tank with everything it needed including fish. 20 gallon tank. Yes it had everything it needed, and then some. They had totally drained the tank to make it easier to transport, and put the fish in baggies. The water in the baggies was urine yellow. The tank had the smelliest brown goo I have never seen before in the bottom. It had algae on the sides. Most of the decor was trashed. The fish: 2 dalmation mollies. 2 zebra danios. One orange and black platy. I thoroughly cleaned the tank, hood, gravel, and fake plants. Put new decor in there, a bubble stick and an air bubble stone. Used newer filter and air pump and heater. Now, 1 of the dalmation mollies is swimming upside down. He has started righting himself a little more, but usually only when the other dalmation molly is chasing him (I think he is male and the one chasing him is female, but I am not sure). I was told on a forum that I should feed the upside down molly peas that have been peeled. That it may be "swim bladder"(?) and the peas could cure it. 1 of the zebra danios looks like he has a curved spine. The other is really fat. Questions: 1. is it normal for one molly to try to help another right himself? (she also seems to be babysitting him...not leaving his side much) 2. is there anything I can or should do for the curved zebra danio? 3. what are the chances the fat danio is pregnant/has eggs/whatever? 4. should I try the peeled peas idea? Any suggestions/info GREATLY appreciated. Thanks, anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25993	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Blue-green algae

Hello all have a look on this one, http://www.xs4all.nl/~buddendo/aquarium/redfield_eng.htm -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : February 21, 2008 7:07 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Blue-green algae If it's actually BGA (blue green algae), it's not actually an algae but rather cyanobacteria. Here's a detailed "thread" all about it and how to get rid of it. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/cyanobacteria.html Like most problems that pop up in a tank, adding a new fish or critter will not solve the problem. In fact, it's the worst thing to do. First you have to determine the underlying factor(s) that caused the problem and fix them. If it's water quality issues leading to the problem, then you certainly do not want to add any more fish. Tell us more about your tank, stocking, recent water test results (before a PWC), maintenance and PWC regimen, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Blue-green algae Hello all. Just wondering if anything out there will eat blue-green algae? I have some on the only plastic plant in the tank (right up at the top of the water). I cleaned it off of the plant but was wondering if there was someone I could add to the tank that would view it as a buffet... Jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25994	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......

Do not mix any of those fish with your current fish and BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN HANDLING THESE FISH AND THE WATER/SLUDGE/ETC. THEY CAME IN. It sounds like those fish have some serious health issues. The curved spine could be caused by an electrical shock but it could also be caused by fish Tuberculosis (TB) which can be spread to humans but not as the same TB we normally hear about. Did you slowly acclimate the fish to clean water? Probably not but in the future, you can't take fish from funky dirty water and put them into clean water as the water parameters will be so drastically different that it will likely cause pH or osmotic shock which can be fatal. At this point, all you can do is treat the symptoms on the fish as they pop up. The upside down fish could be swim bladder but it is more than likely an internal bacterial/parasitic issue causing the swim bladder or bloating issue that is causing the fish to become unstable. You should probably treat all of the fish with a broad spectrum antibiotic or if you do not have access to them, then using something like a Melafix/Pimafix cocktail has helped me in the past when I adopted some sickly fish. If the bloating is just caused by dietary issues, then feeding the peeled pea "meat" would help flush out the digestive tract. For the bent spine fish, it will likely not recover and if it is fish TB, you wouldn't want to keep it around anyhow. When all else fails... http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 7:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT....... I found out how addictive having fish is! My 10 gallon hex tank I asked about before is doing good, I think. Have not lost any fish in a while and things look really good. The fish look good, the water looks good, the live plants look good. Now, I had posted that i was looking for aquarium supplies because I had picked up a cheap 20 gallon rectangular tank and wanted to get it fish ready. I received an email from someone on Freecycle saying they had a really dirty tank with everything it needed including fish. 20 gallon tank. Yes it had everything it needed, and then some. They had totally drained the tank to make it easier to transport, and put the fish in baggies. The water in the baggies was urine yellow. The tank had the smelliest brown goo I have never seen before in the bottom. It had algae on the sides. Most of the decor was trashed. The fish: 2 dalmation mollies. 2 zebra danios. One orange and black platy. I thoroughly cleaned the tank, hood, gravel, and fake plants. Put new decor in there, a bubble stick and an air bubble stone. Used newer filter and air pump and heater. Now, 1 of the dalmation mollies is swimming upside down. He has started righting himself a little more, but usually only when the other dalmation molly is chasing him (I think he is male and the one chasing him is female, but I am not sure). I was told on a forum that I should feed the upside down molly peas that have been peeled. That it may be "swim bladder"(?) and the peas could cure it. 1 of the zebra danios looks like he has a curved spine. The other is really fat. Questions: 1. is it normal for one molly to try to help another right himself? (she also seems to be babysitting him...not leaving his side much) 2. is there anything I can or should do for the curved zebra danio? 3. what are the chances the fat danio is pregnant/has eggs/whatever? 4. should I try the peeled peas idea? Any suggestions/info GREATLY appreciated. Thanks, anndrea No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25995	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......

> Do not mix any of those fish with your current fish and BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN > HANDLING THESE FISH AND THE WATER/SLUDGE/ETC. THEY CAME IN. I have no intention of mixing the other fish with these fish. I know there is something wrong with these fish, and my other fish are doing so good I don't want to risk it. I wore rubber gloves and washed my habds MANY times throughout cleaning the tank and stuff. > Did you slowly acclimate the fish to clean water? I didn't have the chance. The tank came already emptied and all i could think was to get them into clean water asap. I knew there was a risk of losing them all by doing that, but I really had no choice. You should probably > treat all of the fish with a broad spectrum antibiotic or if you do not have > access to them, then using something like a Melafix/Pimafix cocktail has > helped me in the past when I adopted some sickly fish. Where would I get the Melafix/Pimafix? And how do I know for sure I need it? > If the bloating is just caused by dietary issues, then feeding the peeled > pea "meat" would help flush out the digestive tract. The upside down molly does not seem bloated. One of the danios seems fat. > For the bent spine fish, it will likely not recover and if it is fish TB, > you wouldn't want to keep it around anyhow. When all else fails... > http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a- fish.htm Well, I am not that ready to give up on it. The bent spine fish seems to get around fine and is eating and everything. Someone told me if it was an electric shock that the fish could lead a normal life with a bent spine. Wish I knew how to tell if it was in pain, though. I can't bring myself to kill a fish (humanely or otherwise) that seems fine other than deformed a little. Thanks for the info, and I will post if/when something changed for these fish. For now, cross your fingers for me? anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25996	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......

Curved spine? I have some Neon Tetras that have curved spines and was told by our local fish expert that is indicative of too much inbreeding... we call the Madison County fish here in western North Carolina.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: anndreae@...: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:06:09 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT....... I found out how addictive having fish is!My 10 gallon hex tank I asked about before is doing good, I think. Have not lost any fish in a while and things look really good. The fish look good, the water looks good, the live plants look good.Now, I had posted that i was looking for aquarium supplies because I had picked up a cheap 20 gallon rectangular tank and wanted to get it fish ready.I received an email from someone on Freecycle saying they had a really dirty tank with everything it needed including fish. 20 gallon tank.Yes it had everything it needed, and then some. They had totally drained the tank to make it easier to transport, and put the fish in baggies. The water in the baggies was urine yellow. The tank had the smelliest brown goo I have never seen before in the bottom. It had algae on the sides. Most of the decor was trashed.The fish: 2 dalmation mollies. 2 zebra danios. One orange and black platy. I thoroughly cleaned the tank, hood, gravel, and fake plants. Put new decor in there, a bubble stick and an air bubble stone. Used newer filter and air pump and heater.Now, 1 of the dalmation mollies is swimming upside down. He has started righting himself a little more, but usually only when the other dalmation molly is chasing him (I think he is male and the one chasing him is female, but I am not sure). I was told on a forum that I should feed the upside down molly peas that have been peeled. That it may be "swim bladder"(?) and the peas could cure it.1 of the zebra danios looks like he has a curved spine. The other is really fat.Questions:1. is it normal for one molly to try to help another right himself? (she also seems to be babysitting him...not leaving his side much)2. is there anything I can or should do for the curved zebra danio?3. what are the chances the fat danio is pregnant/has eggs/whatever?4. should I try the peeled peas idea?Any suggestions/info GREATLY appreciated.Thanks,anndrea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25997	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......

Any fish that live with that one are probably destined to get the same thing. Sometimes allowing them to survive is not the humane thing to do. -Mike In a message dated 2/21/2008 6:03:58 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, anndreae@... writes: I can't bring myself to kill a fish (humanely or otherwise) that seems fine other than deformed a little. Thanks for the info, and I will post if/when something changed for these fish. For now, cross your fingers for me? anndrea **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25998	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......

Curved spine in Neon Tetra's is one of the symptoms of NTD (Neon Tetra Disease) from what I recall, which is mostly isolated to that species but I have seen posts in forums where it could be morphing to other fish but I haven't read any scientific evidence. Maybe a trip to Google Scholar is in order to read up on any of the latest findings about NTD. It's possible that it's from inbreeding but is it a genetic defect from inbreeding or just repeated contamination of infected fish to their offspring? A Google Scholar search on those key words might lead to some published science. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ''Grey'' Greymane Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:27 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT....... Curved spine? I have some Neon Tetras that have curved spines and was told by our local fish expert that is indicative of too much inbreeding... we call the Madison County fish here in western North Carolina.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : anndreae@... <mailto:anndreae%40yahoo.comDate> : Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:06:09 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT....... I found out how addictive having fish is!My 10 gallon hex tank I asked about before is doing good, I think. Have not lost any fish in a while and things look really good. The fish look good, the water looks good, the live plants look good.Now, I had posted that i was looking for aquarium supplies because I had picked up a cheap 20 gallon rectangular tank and wanted to get it fish ready.I received an email from someone on Freecycle saying they had a really dirty tank with everything it needed including fish. 20 gallon tank.Yes it had everything it needed, and then some. They had totally drained the tank to make it easier to transport, and put the fish in baggies. The water in the baggies was urine yellow. The tank had the smelliest brown goo I have never seen before in the bottom. It had algae on the sides. Most of the decor was trashed.The fish: 2 dalmation mollies. 2 zebra danios. One orange and black platy. I thoroughly cleaned the tank, hood, gravel, and fake plants. Put new decor in there, a bubble stick and an air bubble stone. Used newer filter and air pump and heater.Now, 1 of the dalmation mollies is swimming upside down. He has started righting himself a little more, but usually only when the other dalmation molly is chasing him (I think he is male and the one chasing him is female, but I am not sure). I was told on a forum that I should feed the upside down molly peas that have been peeled. That it may be "swim bladder"(?) and the peas could cure it.1 of the zebra danios looks like he has a curved spine. The other is really fat.Questions:1. is it normal for one molly to try to help another right himself? (she also seems to be babysitting him...not leaving his side much)2. is there anything I can or should do for the curved zebra danio?3. what are the chances the fat danio is pregnant/has eggs/whatever?4. should I try the peeled peas idea?Any suggestions/info GREATLY appreciated.Thanks,anndrea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 25999	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......

You should probably > treat all of the fish with a broad spectrum antibiotic or if you do not have > access to them, then using something like a Melafix/Pimafix cocktail has > helped me in the past when I adopted some sickly fish. Where would I get the Melafix/Pimafix? And how do I know for sure I need it? Answer: Are you in the USA? If so, you can get broad spectrum antibiotics at most fish stores and even PetsMart's. You can also get Melafix and Pimafix at those locations. If you are outside of the USA, it may be harder to get the antibiotics off of the shelf but you should fine Melafix and Pimafix. Make sure you get broad spectrum antibiotics as bacteria are either gram negative or gram positive and some antibiotics only treat one or the other. Since you have so many issues going on, it's likely that you have multiple bacterial issues going on. Melafix is an antibacterial that is good for minor issues and Pimafix is an antifungal but when mixed, they form a broad spectrum antibacterial. I use either or both of them as a first level of defense when treating sick/injured fish that I catch early. In your case, the disease is progressed to the point where I would go with the antibiotics as the first level especially since the new tank isn't cycled anyhow. In a cycled tank, the broad spectrum antibiotics would kill of the good N-bacteria also which is why I go with Melafix/Pimafix since they do not kill of the good N-bacteria. As some one else replied, keeping a fish that is very sick with something that may not be curable, unless it's in it's own Q-tank, would be endangering your other fish. If you have another tank to separate the fish, then you could try and cure them all but for the one with possible TB or a strain of NTD, euthanasia would be best to prevent further contamination. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT....... > Do not mix any of those fish with your current fish and BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN > HANDLING THESE FISH AND THE WATER/SLUDGE/ETC. THEY CAME IN. I have no intention of mixing the other fish with these fish. I know there is something wrong with these fish, and my other fish are doing so good I don't want to risk it. I wore rubber gloves and washed my habds MANY times throughout cleaning the tank and stuff. > Did you slowly acclimate the fish to clean water? I didn't have the chance. The tank came already emptied and all i could think was to get them into clean water asap. I knew there was a risk of losing them all by doing that, but I really had no choice. You should probably > treat all of the fish with a broad spectrum antibiotic or if you do not have > access to them, then using something like a Melafix/Pimafix cocktail has > helped me in the past when I adopted some sickly fish. Where would I get the Melafix/Pimafix? And how do I know for sure I need it? > If the bloating is just caused by dietary issues, then feeding the peeled > pea "meat" would help flush out the digestive tract. The upside down molly does not seem bloated. One of the danios seems fat. > For the bent spine fish, it will likely not recover and if it is fish TB, > you wouldn't want to keep it around anyhow. When all else fails... > http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a- > <http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-> fish.htm Well, I am not that ready to give up on it. The bent spine fish seems to get around fine and is eating and everything. Someone told me if it was an electric shock that the fish could lead a normal life with a bent spine. Wish I knew how to tell if it was in pain, though. I can't bring myself to kill a fish (humanely or otherwise) that seems fine other than deformed a little. Thanks for the info, and I will post if/when something changed for these fish. For now, cross your fingers for me? anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26000	From: Melissa	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Betta

Ok his name is Senior Wong and he is a little over 4..lol Yesterday I changed his water, he happily lives in a 2 gallon critter cage and has lived in it for the last 4 years. I did nothing out of the ordinary when changing his water. Today I thought he was dead, but he was not. And again when I came home from school today I thought he was dead yet again, but again he was not. He is floating at the top of his tank, not belly up, actually he is resting on a plant leaf at the top of his tank, holding him up. He gets a water change once a week, is fed HBH Betta bites and blood worms. I know bettas well cared for will live 4-5 years, should I assume it is about his time? I fed him today, but unlike every other day when he vooms for his food, as far as I know he didnt eat it as he payed no attention to it, but I quickly left for school afterwards. I was considering getting a probiotic food (Spectra Thera) from him from work, the pellets are the same size as his food and the food has done well when treating fish with other "cooties" like ich without actually having to medicate the fish. Anyways Not sure what I should do for him, he is lathargic and I think not eating. How can I help him?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26001	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Heaters

I have hunted high and low but I have not been able to find one. Maybe you can all help. I'm looking for a submersible heater for a 1/2 gallon Betta tank. Do they make them? Thanks! Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26002	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Betta

Actually, with proper care from birth, bettas can live 7-10 years but so many of them are stuck in little cups which starts the stunting process and then most of them live the rest of their lives in quart or half-gallon size vases or bowls which further takes away from their lives so their median lifespan ends up being only 2-3 years. You did well to get him over four years old and it was probably because you had him in a bigger container than many of them end up in. Next time you get a betta, get a 10G tank with live plants and possibly a critter or two (see the 10G stocking list on my blog) for tankmates and he'll have a much better chance to live even longer. A 10G tank is much easier to care for than a smaller tank so you can just do 25% PWC's weekly which doesn't affect them as badly as doing 100% water changes in a small container. He could just have a little bug or maybe when you did a large water change, it could have changed the pH or temp too much and he's just feeling a little under the weather. Hopefully he'll be back to normal and live a few more years for you. The Betta that I rescued after Hurricane Katrina would occasionally go a day or two without eating and then would go back to normal. He was about 2 1/2 when I rescued him and he lived out the rest of his live in a 10G planted tank but he only lived to around 4 years old also. Those first 2 1/2 years was in a 1/2 gallon vase which is rough on a fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta Ok his name is Senior Wong and he is a little over 4..lol Yesterday I changed his water, he happily lives in a 2 gallon critter cage and has lived in it for the last 4 years. I did nothing out of the ordinary when changing his water. Today I thought he was dead, but he was not. And again when I came home from school today I thought he was dead yet again, but again he was not. He is floating at the top of his tank, not belly up, actually he is resting on a plant leaf at the top of his tank, holding him up. He gets a water change once a week, is fed HBH Betta bites and blood worms. I know bettas well cared for will live 4-5 years, should I assume it is about his time? I fed him today, but unlike every other day when he vooms for his food, as far as I know he didnt eat it as he payed no attention to it, but I quickly left for school afterwards. I was considering getting a probiotic food (Spectra Thera) from him from work, the pellets are the same size as his food and the food has done well when treating fish with other "cooties" like ich without actually having to medicate the fish. Anyways Not sure what I should do for him, he is lathargic and I think not eating. How can I help him? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters

First, try to get a bigger container for your Betta. A 2G or larger would be much better. If you can't, then they do sell a small submersible heater plate that will heat up water a few degrees over room temperature. There is no thermostat or anything on the heater so it's not as good as one you could put in a larger container. Here's a link to one brand. Read and follow the directions carefully. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~heaters_hydor_mini.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whidbey Island Wanderlusting Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heaters I have hunted high and low but I have not been able to find one. Maybe you can all help. I'm looking for a submersible heater for a 1/2 gallon Betta tank. Do they make them? Thanks! Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26004	From: Jenn	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Blue-green algae

The last PWC was last weekend (I do about 30% every two weeks). I also just moved some plants around to even them out and rubbed the blue-green crap off the java moss and the plastic plant. I have a 75 gal, semi-heavily planted tank with Rainbow fish. The fish are still small, not one is bigger than 2 inches. I estimate, without doing an actual census, about 2 dozen rainbows plus 6 bottom feeders. I have two filters running, an Emperor 400 and a 350 (or whatever the next size down from the 400 is) bio-wheel. I did a TEST STRIP just now and these are the results: Nitrates 30ppm (no matter what I do, I can't get my nitrates below 20ppm, even with a 50% water change) Nitrites 0 ppm Hardness 120 ppm Alkalinity 0 ppm PH 7.23 ppm I can have a more thorough test done tomorrow. I have a 260 watt power compact lighting system (by JBJ) I plan on upgrading to a 90gal in the next few weeks. I think that's it... jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26005	From: Jenn	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Back to the breeding question...

Okay, so I decided not to try to breed Blood Parrots and am looking at setting up my 56 gallon again and getting a pair of Cryptoheros sajica. I've been reading up on them and they seem similar to Convicts but less aggressive. I have experience with South and Central American cichlids. Are these fish hard to find? I can't say I've ever seen them in a store. (Of course I can't say I have been looking...) Enlighten me!! jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26006	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters

I went and looked at this link. Says its for 2 to 5 gallon tanks. Mine is 1/2 gallon. Would that be safe? Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heaters First, try to get a bigger container for your Betta. A 2G or larger would be much better. If you can't, then they do sell a small submersible heater plate that will heat up water a few degrees over room temperature. There is no thermostat or anything on the heater so it's not as good as one you could put in a larger container. Here's a link to one brand. Read and follow the directions carefully. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~heaters_hydor_mini.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whidbey Island Wanderlusting Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heaters I have hunted high and low but I have not been able to find one. Maybe you can all help. I'm looking for a submersible heater for a 1/2 gallon Betta tank. Do they make them? Thanks! Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26007	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters

Thanks. Unfortunately Im limited for space. And I don’t want to put him in the tank with my tetras and barbs. I have been advised that not a good idea. But its much nicer than the plastic cup him came in from the pet store. Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heaters First, try to get a bigger container for your Betta. A 2G or larger would be much better. If you can't, then they do sell a small submersible heater plate that will heat up water a few degrees over room temperature. There is no thermostat or anything on the heater so it's not as good as one you could put in a larger container. Here's a link to one brand. Read and follow the directions carefully. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~heaters_hydor_mini.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whidbey Island Wanderlusting Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heaters I have hunted high and low but I have not been able to find one. Maybe you can all help. I'm looking for a submersible heater for a 1/2 gallon Betta tank. Do they make them? Thanks! Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26008	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters

I saw some at walmart a couple of weeks ago for tiny tanks...they are only like $5 and for those that have kids these are good because they cannot be cranked up like the others can so they will not accidentally fry your tank.I do not know how well they work..they also have 50 watts for like 17.00..you can order them online (they usually have more choices in stock online) from many shops like walmart and petsmart also... -----Original Message----- From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting <macnachtan98@...> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heaters I have hunted high and low but I have not been able to find one. Maybe you can all help. I'm looking for a submersible heater for a 1/2 gallon Betta tank. Do they make them? Thanks! Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26009	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters

Where do you see "2 to 5"? All I see is "up to 5 gallon" and it mentions "small aquariums", "mini-tanks" and "bowls" in the description. A general rule for heating a tank is 10 watts per gallon and this is only a 7.5 watt heater so it would be at least low enough for a 3/4 gallon tank. Can't you find a larger vase that would sit on the same foot print as the 1/2 gallon container? Even a 1G, pickle jar or pigs feet jar from your local deli, would be 200% better than a 1/2 gallon bowl. Use this little heater and add a few stalks of Anacharis and all of a sudden, it's a much better environment for your Betta at little or no cost. Remember that when your room temp gets over 76F, to unplug the heater. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com Description MINI heater 7.5 Watt for small aquariums and fish bowls up to 20 liters (5 gal) The Hydor Mini Heater is specially designed for small aquariums and fish bowls up to 5 gallons. Easy installation and quick maintenance. Perfect for mini-tanks due to very compact size. Safe and reliable thanks to the patented PTC (Positive Thermal Coefficient) film heating element. Ideal for use in glass or acrylic tanks. The Mini Heater can be completely buried within the gravel if desired. As with any heating device, it is recommended that the temperature be monitored by the use of a thermometer. If the ambient room temperature rises above 76 F or other preferred temperature, simply remove or unplug the heater until needed again. For use in freshwater and marine aquariums. Features: Extra small: easy to hide in mini-tanks and bowls. Extra safe even under gravel. Completely submersible, ideal for use in both glass and acrylic tanks. No damage if left running dry. Helps increase by a few degrees Celsius/Fahrenheit the water temperature of mini aquariums compared to the ambient/room temperature where it is positioned. Two year manufacturer's warranty. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whidbey Island Wanderlusting Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heaters I went and looked at this link. Says its for 2 to 5 gallon tanks. Mine is 1/2 gallon. Would that be safe? Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heaters First, try to get a bigger container for your Betta. A 2G or larger would be much better. If you can't, then they do sell a small submersible heater plate that will heat up water a few degrees over room temperature. There is no thermostat or anything on the heater so it's not as good as one you could put in a larger container. Here's a link to one brand. Read and follow the directions carefully. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~heaters_hydor_mini.html <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~heaters_hydor_mini.htm l> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Whidbey Island Wanderlusting Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Heaters I have hunted high and low but I have not been able to find one. Maybe you can all help. I'm looking for a submersible heater for a 1/2 gallon Betta tank. Do they make them? Thanks! Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26010	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Back to the breeding question...

Hi Jenn, Where are you located? _www.Aquabid.com_ (http://www.Aquabid.com) is a great source. You may be able to find a local hobbiest. -MIke In a message dated 2/21/2008 9:02:45 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jennhonaker1974@... writes: getting a pair of Cryptoheros sajica. I've been reading up on them and they seem similar to Convicts but less aggressive. I have experience with South and Central American cichlids. Are these fish hard to find? I can't say I've ever seen them in a store. (Of course I can't say I have been looking...) Enlighten me!! jenn **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26011	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: gourami fry,3 days old

You should not move the fry until they become free swimming. Right now, you have two options, you can leave them in the tank they are in now, and take your chances on the survival of the fry, or you can move them. If you leave them in the same tank, you can increase survival rate by partitioning the tank with a divider. This will keep everyone on one side, and the gouramis on the other. Once the fry are free swimming, you can move the parents to the other side as well, as they will also tend to see the fry as tasty little snacks, though not as much as the rest of your fish will. You can prepare a second tank, with the water level being half, or less, of the tank depth. The top should be tightly sealed enough to provide a nice humid atmosphere above the water. You will need to feed micro foods, such as infusoria, and green water, graduating to larger foods as they fry grow. It is a bit late now to prepare for the feeding regimen, though, so you will need to do the best you can. A used sponge filter can be a good source of food for the fry at this stage. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] gourami fry,3 days old Now what do I do? The father is still keeping all other fish away from site of bubble nest,and mom is keeping watch over middle of tank.The fry are so tiny,except for the tails they look like bubbles.Do I leave them in the tank with dad,who seems to be very attentive,even gives me his mean look when I feed them,or try to take them out? I have always had live bearers.Any advice? They are warm,have 1/2 55 gallon tank to themselves,plenty of oxygen and slow moving filter.Do they all hatch at same time,or over a period of time?thanks,sheri

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26012	From: sheriartist57	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Informative page on algae

"The presence of green algae in an aquarium indicates a healthy environment..." fish.http://www.aquariumpros.com/faqpro/algae_1.shtml#05200138

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26013	From: sheriartist57	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: gourami fry,3 days old

Thanks,Steve, That already answers alot of my questions. The father seems to be chewing up food and spitting it out near the fry.They are about the size of a comma now,almost a pencil dot.I thought my platy fry were small,wow,amazing.Sheri --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > You should not move the fry until they become free swimming. > > Right now, you have two options, you can leave them in the tank they are > in now, and take your chances on the survival of the fry, or you can > move them. > > If you leave them in the same tank, you can increase survival rate by > partitioning the tank with a divider. This will keep everyone on one > side, and the gouramis on the other. Once the fry are free swimming, you > can move the parents to the other side as well, as they will also tend > to see the fry as tasty little snacks, though not as much as the rest of > your fish will. > > You can prepare a second tank, with the water level being half, or less, > of the tank depth. The top should be tightly sealed enough to provide a > nice humid atmosphere above the water. You will need to feed micro > foods, such as infusoria, and green water, graduating to larger foods as > they fry grow. It is a bit late now to prepare for the feeding regimen, > though, so you will need to do the best you can. A used sponge filter > can be a good source of food for the fry at this stage. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of sheriartist57 > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] gourami fry,3 days old > > Now what do I do? The father is still keeping all other fish away from > site of bubble nest,and mom is keeping watch over middle of tank.The > fry are so tiny,except for the tails they look like bubbles.Do I leave > them in the tank with dad,who seems to be very attentive,even gives me > his mean look when I feed them,or try to take them out? I have always > had live bearers.Any advice? They are warm,have 1/2 55 gallon tank to > themselves,plenty of oxygen and slow moving filter.Do they all hatch > at same time,or over a period of time?thanks,sheri >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26014	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters

Hey guys, Certainly a 2 gallon (or larger) tank would be much better than a 1/2 gallon tank, and should be no big expenditure. A Heater such as the Hydor Mini Heater that depends solely on your keeping an eye on your thermometer is in reality not dependable at all, especially when you consider the wide range (for its size) tanks it is supposedly yo take care of. Such heaters are not new; they were on the market many years ago, offered as "chill breakers," but were not reliable even then. If for instance, this heater is designed to maintain tanks from 2 to 5 gallons (which now seems debateable), the unit would have only 40% the capacity to properly heat a 5 gallon tank as it would a 2 gallon tank, rendering the 5 gallon tank much cooler than the 2 gallon at the same ambient temperature. As for dependability, since this unit has the capacity to heat a 2 gallon tank 2 1/2 times higher than the 5 gallon tank above any given room temperature (i.e., at a room temperature of 72 o, if a 5 gallon tank can be heated to 78 o, a 2 gallon tank will be heated to 87 o, if left plugged in), to rely only on the hobbyist's diligence in keeping tabs on his thermometer is foolhardy at best since any inadvertant lapse of this may seriously put the smaller tank in jeopardy. The rule for heating a tank however, seems to be in some confusion, as it is far from 10 Watts per gallon -- unless the room is being maintained at 52 o. A 10 Watt per gallon rating over the ambient temperature is far in excess of what is needed, even though the capacity of any heater needed will of course vary according to the room temperature and the temperature the tank is to be maintained at. For many decades, the rule for any heater's Wattage rating per gallon has been one (1) Watt for raising each gallon of water five (5) degrees above the ambient (room) temperature. As such, for general useage of a heater used in an aquarium within a room of 68 o, the rule has always been three (3) Watts per gallon, which would have the capacity to raise any tank's temperature to 83 o. This ruling may be found in most any older general aquarium maintenance book such as "Exotic Aquarium Fishes" (by Dr. William T. Innes), and has been maintained by him through many of his editorials in his "The Aquarium" magazine of the time. While aquarium maintenance practices may have changed over the years, the principles of the physics of electricity have not; it still takes a finite number of Watts to create a given amount of calories to heat water to a given number of degrees. If the room is kept lower than 68 o and/or if the aquarist endeavors to boost the aquarium very much higher, a larger capacity heater will be needed, but certainly not one of 10 Watts per gallon. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Where do you see "2 to 5"? All I see is "up to 5 gallon" and it mentions > "small aquariums", "mini-tanks" and "bowls" in the description. A general > rule for heating a tank is 10 watts per gallon and this is only a 7.5 watt > heater so it would be at least low enough for a 3/4 gallon tank. Can't you > find a larger vase that would sit on the same foot print as the 1/2 gallon > container? Even a 1G, pickle jar or pigs feet jar from your local deli, > would be 200% better than a 1/2 gallon bowl. Use this little heater and add > a few stalks of Anacharis and all of a sudden, it's a much better > environment for your Betta at little or no cost. Remember that when your > room temp gets over 76F, to unplug the heater. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > Description > MINI heater 7.5 Watt for small aquariums and fish bowls up to 20 liters (5 > gal) > > The Hydor Mini Heater is specially designed for small aquariums and fish > bowls up to 5 gallons. Easy installation and quick maintenance. Perfect for > mini-tanks due to very compact size. Safe and reliable thanks to the > patented PTC (Positive Thermal Coefficient) film heating element. Ideal for > use in glass or acrylic tanks. The Mini Heater can be completely buried > within the gravel if desired. As with any heating device, it is recommended > that the temperature be monitored by the use of a thermometer. If the > ambient room temperature rises above 76 F or other preferred temperature, > simply remove or unplug the heater until needed again. For use in freshwater > and marine aquariums. > > Features: > Extra small: easy to hide in mini-tanks and bowls. > Extra safe even under gravel. > Completely submersible, ideal for use in both glass and acrylic tanks. > No damage if left running dry. > Helps increase by a few degrees Celsius/Fahrenheit the water temperature of > mini aquariums compared to the ambient/room temperature where it is > positioned. > Two year manufacturer's warranty. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Whidbey Island Wanderlusting > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heaters > > I went and looked at this link. Says its for 2 to 5 gallon tanks. Mine is > 1/2 gallon. Would that be safe? > > Mac and the Weiner Patrol > > Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. > > What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! > > <"( );::::::::::;~ > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heaters > > First, try to get a bigger container for your Betta. A 2G or larger would be > much better. > > If you can't, then they do sell a small submersible heater plate that will > heat up water a few degrees over room temperature. There is no thermostat or > anything on the heater so it's not as good as one you could put in a larger > container. Here's a link to one brand. Read and follow the directions > carefully. > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 > 8:45 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26015	From: ED	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife

HAH! I found it. Wanted to thank you for the Mysis shrimp addition to the diet. The angels, bala's well everybody else thanks you too. So far we feed blood worms, mysis shrimp, brine shrimp , frozen algea like substance LMAO, and TetraMin flakes. Gonna try raising and feeding live brine. Wish I'd known how big bala's get the 2 we have are only fingerlings and were acting like breeding last night IE swimming next to each other and flickering against each other. TY again for the addition to the diet. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "whjordan83" <whjordan83@...> wrote: > > I have a large tank with these guys, back in May I succeccfully bred > them. Not sure what specifics I used to accomplish this. By the time > I realized it I only had two offspring left and one has survived to > this day. I wish I had the opportunity to see and moniter what went on > to get them to breed, but I had a death in the family and the tanks > were not my focus at that time. > > Also try frozen and freeze dried mysis shrimp, mine tear them up. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > Absolutily the coolest fish I've ever known. I got to feed him this > > morning ( blood worms-frozen ). OMGOD Aggressive eating. Rubs against > > your hand. Does anyone else own one of these magnificent creatures? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26016	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Betta

Well Senior Won was back to normal this morning, so it must have been his new water stressing him out. I want to get him into a bigger tank, but at the moment with 80 million reptiles (well ok maybe not 80 milling more like 78 million) everywhere, not to mention one parrot all stuffed into my bedroom, there isnt alot of room although my room is huge. I am in the process of trying to condense reptile cages down, I really want something custom, but they cost a bit of $$ Right now I am just happy he's ok. I will probably take home a little bit of the Spectra Thera food anyways and give him a few bites. If anything maybe I can manage to squeeze a 5 gallon tank into his cubby hole for hims he can hae a bit more room. Thank you! ~Melissa --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Actually, with proper care from birth, bettas can > live 7-10 years but so > many of them are stuck in little cups which starts > the stunting process and > then most of them live the rest of their lives in > quart or half-gallon size > vases or bowls which further takes away from their > lives so their median > lifespan ends up being only 2-3 years. > > You did well to get him over four years old and it > was probably because you > had him in a bigger container than many of them end > up in. > > Next time you get a betta, get a 10G tank with live > plants and possibly a > critter or two (see the 10G stocking list on my > blog) for tankmates and > he'll have a much better chance to live even longer. > A 10G tank is much > easier to care for than a smaller tank so you can > just do 25% PWC's weekly > which doesn't affect them as badly as doing 100% > water changes in a small > container. > > He could just have a little bug or maybe when you > did a large water change, > it could have changed the pH or temp too much and > he's just feeling a little > under the weather. Hopefully he'll be back to > normal and live a few more > years for you. > > The Betta that I rescued after Hurricane Katrina > would occasionally go a day > or two without eating and then would go back to > normal. He was about 2 1/2 > when I rescued him and he lived out the rest of his > live in a 10G planted > tank but he only lived to around 4 years old also. > Those first 2 1/2 years > was in a 1/2 gallon vase which is rough on a fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Melissa > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta > > Ok his name is Senior Wong and he is a little over > 4..lol > > Yesterday I changed his water, he happily lives in a > 2 gallon critter cage > and has lived in it for the last 4 years. I did > nothing out of the ordinary > when changing his water. Today I thought he was > dead, but he was not. And > again when I came home from school today I thought > he was dead yet again, > but again he was not. > > He is floating at the top of his tank, not belly up, > actually he is resting > on a plant leaf at the top of his tank, holding him > up. He gets a water > change once a week, is fed HBH Betta bites and blood > worms. > > I know bettas well cared for will live 4-5 years, > should I assume it is > about his time? I fed him today, but unlike every > other day when he vooms > for his food, as far as I know he didnt eat it as he > payed no attention to > it, but I quickly left for school afterwards. I was > considering getting a > probiotic food (Spectra Thera) from him from work, > the pellets are the same > size as his food and the food has done well when > treating fish with other > "cooties" like ich without actually having to > medicate the fish. > > Anyways Not sure what I should do for him, he is > lathargic and I think not > eating. How can I help him? > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - > Release Date: 2/20/2008 > 8:45 PM > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26017	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: n00b Betta questions

Hey guys. I've been watching some of the postings regarding betta care and I appreciate everyone else asking all the questions I'm afraid to!! j/k When I got my 1.5 gal tank from Tetra I signed up for their list and support. I recieved an e-mail yesterday indicating it's time for a 50% water change. Is this something I should do in addition to the weekly 25% water changes? I know that it's been said that bettas thrive in a 10G tank, but a 10G tank at work on my desk is, well, impractical. <grin> My guy (haven't named him yet) is in love with his surroundings and is very active. In addition to the 50% water change, the other question that I have is this: What is the best way to clean out the excess food that has filtered it's way down into the gravel? Lastly, what live plants are recommended for a 1.5G tank that bettas will enjoy? Thanks for all the help!! Rob -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26018	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Home-made slates for eggs

My angels just laid their eggs on an artificial plant overnight. That would be a great vessel to move. The only problem is that I don't have a tank available. I could, though. There is a 3 gallon one that has established media and substrate still in it. Could I possibly set it up, let it run for a day or so and then move the plant? Isn't that heartbreaking for the parents? They are guarding them with their lives right now. Thanks. Jeannie At 10:22 PM 2/18/2008, you wrote: >After watching my angels laying eggs on the filter down tubes and >losing several batches of eggs to inexperienced parents, I decided to >see if I could make something that could easily be removed to an >incubation tank. I epoxyed a piece of black plastic from an old light >hood onto a rock to weight it so it would not float. Today I placed one >of my home-made slates in four of my breeder tanks and already have >eggs on three of them. Yippee! I placed pictures of them in my album >which should be available soon. > >Grey (Jim) > >__

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26019	From: Jenn	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Back to the breeding question...

I am located in Washington PA, about 20 minutes South of Pittsburgh. > > Hi Jenn, > > Where are you located? > > _www.Aquabid.com_ (http://www.Aquabid.com) is a great source. > > You may be able to find a local hobbiest. > > -MIke > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26020	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters

I have looked at Bi-Mart, Petco and Petsmart here and they don’t carry them. I will NOT grace the doors of Walmart so that lets that out. LOL Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heaters I saw some at walmart a couple of weeks ago for tiny tanks...they are only like $5 and for those that have kids these are good because they cannot be cranked up like the others can so they will not accidentally fry your tank.I do not know how well they work..they also have 50 watts for like 17.00..you can order them online (they usually have more choices in stock online) from many shops like walmart and petsmart also... -----Original Message----- From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting <macnachtan98@...> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heaters I have hunted high and low but I have not been able to find one. Maybe you can all help. I'm looking for a submersible heater for a 1/2 gallon Betta tank. Do they make them? Thanks! Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26021	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters

Right next to the "For Tanks" listing "2 - 5" Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heaters Where do you see "2 to 5"? All I see is "up to 5 gallon" and it mentions "small aquariums", "mini-tanks" and "bowls" in the description. A general rule for heating a tank is 10 watts per gallon and this is only a 7.5 watt heater so it would be at least low enough for a 3/4 gallon tank. Can't you find a larger vase that would sit on the same foot print as the 1/2 gallon container? Even a 1G, pickle jar or pigs feet jar from your local deli, would be 200% better than a 1/2 gallon bowl. Use this little heater and add a few stalks of Anacharis and all of a sudden, it's a much better environment for your Betta at little or no cost. Remember that when your room temp gets over 76F, to unplug the heater. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com Description MINI heater 7.5 Watt for small aquariums and fish bowls up to 20 liters (5 gal) The Hydor Mini Heater is specially designed for small aquariums and fish bowls up to 5 gallons. Easy installation and quick maintenance. Perfect for mini-tanks due to very compact size. Safe and reliable thanks to the patented PTC (Positive Thermal Coefficient) film heating element. Ideal for use in glass or acrylic tanks. The Mini Heater can be completely buried within the gravel if desired. As with any heating device, it is recommended that the temperature be monitored by the use of a thermometer. If the ambient room temperature rises above 76 F or other preferred temperature, simply remove or unplug the heater until needed again. For use in freshwater and marine aquariums. Features: Extra small: easy to hide in mini-tanks and bowls. Extra safe even under gravel. Completely submersible, ideal for use in both glass and acrylic tanks. No damage if left running dry. Helps increase by a few degrees Celsius/Fahrenheit the water temperature of mini aquariums compared to the ambient/room temperature where it is positioned. Two year manufacturer's warranty. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whidbey Island Wanderlusting Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heaters I went and looked at this link. Says its for 2 to 5 gallon tanks. Mine is 1/2 gallon. Would that be safe? Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heaters First, try to get a bigger container for your Betta. A 2G or larger would be much better. If you can't, then they do sell a small submersible heater plate that will heat up water a few degrees over room temperature. There is no thermostat or anything on the heater so it's not as good as one you could put in a larger container. Here's a link to one brand. Read and follow the directions carefully. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~heaters_hydor_mini.html <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~heaters_hydor_mini.htm l> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Whidbey Island Wanderlusting Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Heaters I have hunted high and low but I have not been able to find one. Maybe you can all help. I'm looking for a submersible heater for a 1/2 gallon Betta tank. Do they make them? Thanks! Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26022	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: n00b Betta questions

If you listen to that Tetra crap, you'll kill all your fish. That so-called service is JUNK!!!! Tetra also promotes their chemical "Easy Balance with Nitroban" in their emails which promote not doing PWC's (partial water changes) except every six months which is pure JUNK and HORRIBLE advice to a fish keeper... especially a newbie which are the most frequent people to sign up for that so-called service. Save your email space and get unsubscribe from that so-called service. Now.. to your tank. A 1.5G tank is much better than some of the bowls/vases that many Bettas have to live in. You should test your water on a regular basis and before each PWC and your test results will determine how frequently you should be doing PWC's. Depending on how much you overfeed, etc., you may have to do more frequent 25% PWC's. Do them at least weekly but that may not be enough. Without test results on water quality, it's hard to tell. For the detritus in the gravel (not just missed food but poop, etc.), you should get a small gravel vacuum siphon and vacuum the gravel weekly when you do your PWC. That's one of the downsides of a small tank... you can't vacuum much of your gravel before removing too much water so just try to get as much detritus as you can with each 25% PWC and you might have to do daily 25% PWC's for the first week or so to get your gravel clean but then you might only have to do it weekly. Your test results will let you know if you are getting too much nitrogenous waste or your pH will swing (due to higher CO2 levels) to indicate that you have too much waste in your tank. As far as plants, I've always gone with Anacharis in smaller tanks with just room lighting. It will do well and help with removing nitrogenous waste, removing CO2 and adding O2 to the little tank. And your Betta will like lounging around on the off shoots that grow off of the main stalks. Anacharis does not have to be planted and will thrive while floating but that's not good for a Betta tank since Bettas need surface area to breath so you would be best to plant the Anachari or use a lead strip from the plant store to anchor it down so it does not take up too much surface area. If it starts to grow too much, just use your scissors to snip some off and start a new bunch anchored at the bottom again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] n00b Betta questions Hey guys. I've been watching some of the postings regarding betta care and I appreciate everyone else asking all the questions I'm afraid to!! j/k When I got my 1.5 gal tank from Tetra I signed up for their list and support. I recieved an e-mail yesterday indicating it's time for a 50% water change. Is this something I should do in addition to the weekly 25% water changes? I know that it's been said that bettas thrive in a 10G tank, but a 10G tank at work on my desk is, well, impractical. <grin> My guy (haven't named him yet) is in love with his surroundings and is very active. In addition to the 50% water change, the other question that I have is this: What is the best way to clean out the excess food that has filtered it's way down into the gravel? Lastly, what live plants are recommended for a 1.5G tank that bettas will enjoy? Thanks for all the help!! Rob No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1292 - Release Date: 2/21/2008 4:09 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26023	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: n00b Betta questions

What are your thoughts on pothos plants? At the office (one of my many jobs is at a vets office also) we have a betta living in about a 4 gallon brandy sniffer sifter whatever those things are called, its big anyways. Well we have a pothos plant in with it and he seems to love it. He was a donation to our office as the people who had him were moving and didnt want to take him with them. And yes believe it or not we even have a gal who gets her betta vet checked when ill, and he gets boarded there when she goes on vacation (we are a strickly exotics vets office, no cats or dogs unless you have a dingo or a cougar!). I have even taken one of my dead koi in as he died out of the blue, didnt want to loose all my pond fish so I had a necropsy done by one of our vets (he was once a zoo vet for umteen years). I also keep a female betta at the pet store in a 4 gallon fish bowl with this plant and she has been doing great also with it. I have often thought about cutting some of my own pothos plant I have and stick it in his tank as I know the plants do great with normal room lighting and my bedroom gets alot of lights from the windows and reptile UVB lights. But I am also leary as he has lived this long and I personally do not want to introduce something to him that could harm him, I am partial to my fish :) ~melissa --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > If you listen to that Tetra crap, you'll kill all > your fish. That so-called > service is JUNK!!!! Tetra also promotes their > chemical "Easy Balance with > Nitroban" in their emails which promote not doing > PWC's (partial water > changes) except every six months which is pure JUNK > and HORRIBLE advice to a > fish keeper... especially a newbie which are the > most frequent people to > sign up for that so-called service. Save your > email space and get > unsubscribe from that so-called service. > > Now.. to your tank. > > A 1.5G tank is much better than some of the > bowls/vases that many Bettas > have to live in. You should test your water on a > regular basis and before > each PWC and your test results will determine how > frequently you should be > doing PWC's. Depending on how much you overfeed, > etc., you may have to do > more frequent 25% PWC's. Do them at least weekly > but that may not be > enough. Without test results on water quality, it's > hard to tell. > > For the detritus in the gravel (not just missed food > but poop, etc.), you > should get a small gravel vacuum siphon and vacuum > the gravel weekly when > you do your PWC. That's one of the downsides of a > small tank... you can't > vacuum much of your gravel before removing too much > water so just try to get > as much detritus as you can with each 25% PWC and > you might have to do daily > 25% PWC's for the first week or so to get your > gravel clean but then you > might only have to do it weekly. Your test results > will let you know if you > are getting too much nitrogenous waste or your pH > will swing (due to higher > CO2 levels) to indicate that you have too much waste > in your tank. > > As far as plants, I've always gone with Anacharis in > smaller tanks with just > room lighting. It will do well and help with > removing nitrogenous waste, > removing CO2 and adding O2 to the little tank. And > your Betta will like > lounging around on the off shoots that grow off of > the main stalks. > Anacharis does not have to be planted and will > thrive while floating but > that's not good for a Betta tank since Bettas need > surface area to breath so > you would be best to plant the Anachari or use a > lead strip from the plant > store to anchor it down so it does not take up too > much surface area. If it > starts to grow too much, just use your scissors to > snip some off and start a > new bunch anchored at the bottom again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Robert Mazur > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] n00b Betta questions > > Hey guys. I've been watching some of the postings > regarding betta care and I > appreciate everyone else asking all the questions > I'm afraid to!! j/k > > When I got my 1.5 gal tank from Tetra I signed up > for their list and > support. I recieved an e-mail yesterday indicating > it's time for a 50% water > change. Is this something I should do in addition to > the weekly 25% water > changes? > > I know that it's been said that bettas thrive in a > 10G tank, but a 10G tank > at work on my desk is, well, impractical. <grin> My > guy (haven't named him > yet) is in love with his surroundings and is very > active. In addition to the > 50% water change, the other question that I have is > this: What is the best > way to clean out the excess food that has filtered > it's way down into the > gravel? > > Lastly, what live plants are recommended for a 1.5G > tank that bettas will > enjoy? > > Thanks for all the help!! > > Rob > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1292 - > Release Date: 2/21/2008 > 4:09 PM > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26024	From: Whidbey Island Wanderlusting	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Correction about Betta Tank

I was wrong. It’s a one gallon. Don’t know where I was thinking 1/2. Mac and the Weiner Patrol Gunny, Jäger, Ruger, Kimber, Colt, Sarge, Cazzie and Pi. What is Earthdog? The most fun you can have with your dog! <”( );::::::::::;~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26025	From: Margarita	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Just stardted :)

tHANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP. wE ARE GOING TO BYE A NEW FITER TODAY. RITA "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I have Rena Filstar Canister filters on two of my tanks. They are quiet and competitively priced if you shop around. I actually got my best price from PetsMart.com and then used the printed page to get the actual in-stock unit from my local store at the same price. Saved nearly 50%. For HOB's, the AquaClear units are very well made, have large reservoirs for holding a lot more filter media compared to other HOB's. Do not get stuck with a system with little bitty filter cartridges that they then try to sell you on constantly changing the filter cartridges every two weeks. That is BAD for your fish as it can put your tank into a mini-cycle each time you change out the filter. Read my blog article on "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of margo0621 Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just stardted :) I just started. We bought a filter for our 44.7 gal tank. It is so noisy. Plese, give me the name brand for a nice filter. Thank you very much. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 8:45 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26026	From: pennyleehaynee	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: stocking a tall tank

Hi, I have a tall (28")by 18"by 20" because it is tall I need fish that are happy swimming up and down or live on the bottom happily. Can you help? thanks penny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26027	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: stocking a tall tank

Do you have any other fish or fish you would definitely like? It's a 43.6G tank but with the limited surface area so you cannot stock it as someone might normally stock a 43G rectangular tank. Surface area for gas exchange is as important as overall water volume when considering the fish bioload you may want to put in a tank. What is your source water like? Do a source/tap water baseline test (see my blog for detailed instructions) so you will know if you have soft or hard water. Low, neutral or high pH, etc. These are also major factors to consider when planning which fish to acquire. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pennyleehaynee Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] stocking a tall tank Hi, I have a tall (28")by 18"by 20" because it is tall I need fish that are happy swimming up and down or live on the bottom happily. Can you help? thanks penny No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1292 - Release Date: 2/21/2008 4:09 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26028	From: kathy wells	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Salt Water tanks for Beginners

Hi, Well Ive heard both also and it's bull. I have been keeping fish for 25 yrs. and my first tank was a saltwater tank. I think you just have to clear your head of all you learned about fresh water tanks and soak up all you can about salt water. I have found the most important thing in keeping salt water fish is to be very careful with the biological filtration and try not to keep it too clean. The weekly water change rule is (in my opinion) a sure way to fail. I change 10% every 2 weeks and rinse, clean and or change filter media every 3 months.I keep snails, crabs, and star fish to keep the tank clean naturally as well as live rock to aid filtration. I have been very successful. I have also found that talking with other fish keepers and taking their advice is usually much better than asking a pet store because they don't have any interest in selling you anything for your tank. Well I will quit rambling on. The only extra work in keeping a salt water tank is mixing the salt. Katt Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: I've heard two separate things about salt water tanks and beginners: 1) "Don't try it, they're hard for even someone experienced in freshwater fish." 2) "It's a lie, salt water tanks are perfect for beginners." I was wondering if y'all would be kind enough to talk about your personal experiences with salt water tanks. Thanks! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26029	From: harry perry	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: gourami fry,3 days old/I breed gouramis

I would feed liquid fry food till the fry can accept baby brine shrimp. They grow fast on the shrimp. When they are free swimming like Steve said, separate them they will need a sponge filter and a heater.Seal the fry tank with plastic wrap. The air above the water needs to be the same temp.as the water.The air needs to be warm for when the labyrinth organ starts up and enables them to breath air. If it is colder than the water(80) they will die with their first breath. In a breeding tank the female is normally removed right after birth and the male after the fry are free swimming. They are born with a yolk sac (food) that only lasts 24 to 48 hours. You'll need to feed them constantly after that. Harry sheriartist57 <sheriartist57@...> wrote: Thanks,Steve, That already answers alot of my questions. The father seems to be chewing up food and spitting it out near the fry.They are about the size of a comma now,almost a pencil dot.I thought my platy fry were small,wow,amazing.Sheri --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > You should not move the fry until they become free swimming. > > Right now, you have two options, you can leave them in the tank they are > in now, and take your chances on the survival of the fry, or you can > move them. > > If you leave them in the same tank, you can increase survival rate by > partitioning the tank with a divider. This will keep everyone on one > side, and the gouramis on the other. Once the fry are free swimming, you > can move the parents to the other side as well, as they will also tend > to see the fry as tasty little snacks, though not as much as the rest of > your fish will. > > You can prepare a second tank, with the water level being half, or less, > of the tank depth. The top should be tightly sealed enough to provide a > nice humid atmosphere above the water. You will need to feed micro > foods, such as infusoria, and green water, graduating to larger foods as > they fry grow. It is a bit late now to prepare for the feeding regimen, > though, so you will need to do the best you can. A used sponge filter > can be a good source of food for the fry at this stage. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of sheriartist57 > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] gourami fry,3 days old > > Now what do I do? The father is still keeping all other fish away from > site of bubble nest,and mom is keeping watch over middle of tank.The > fry are so tiny,except for the tails they look like bubbles.Do I leave > them in the tank with dad,who seems to be very attentive,even gives me > his mean look when I feed them,or try to take them out? I have always > had live bearers.Any advice? They are warm,have 1/2 55 gallon tank to > themselves,plenty of oxygen and slow moving filter.Do they all hatch > at same time,or over a period of time?thanks,sheri > Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26030	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: what else would you recommend?

first off thanks for letting me join this group. i have a 20 gallon tanks that is currently empty and a 70 gallon that is my obsession. It is a freshwater tank that i have stocked with 2 albino clawed frogs, 3 danios, 2 bala sharks, 1 dragon fish, 3 guarmis, 1 red parrot cichlid, 1 molly and one orange fish that i am not sure what it is. i know i want more frogs cause they are just too cool. i am just wondering what else to get because my 14 month old daughter loves to look at the tank and all she can see is the parrot cichled. what would you recommend?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26031	From: bruce cohen	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Salt Water tanks for Beginners

Lana and Kathy, Hi, I do 20% water changes weekly. and that is for two reasons the first is that my sponges can not take a high nitrate or nitrite levels the other reason is that my lps corals need other supplements that I am unable to test for ie iodine there for if there is not a test for it, DON'T ADD IT. That is the rule that I go with and have been doing quite well with what I am doing. kathy wells <kattfish4050@...> wrote: Hi, Well Ive heard both also and it's bull. I have been keeping fish for 25 yrs. and my first tank was a saltwater tank. I think you just have to clear your head of all you learned about fresh water tanks and soak up all you can about salt water. I have found the most important thing in keeping salt water fish is to be very careful with the biological filtration and try not to keep it too clean. The weekly water change rule is (in my opinion) a sure way to fail. I change 10% every 2 weeks and rinse, clean and or change filter media every 3 months.I keep snails, crabs, and star fish to keep the tank clean naturally as well as live rock to aid filtration. I have been very successful. I have also found that talking with other fish keepers and taking their advice is usually much better than asking a pet store because they don't have any interest in selling you anything for your tank. Well I will quit rambling on. The only extra work in keeping a salt water tank is mixing the salt. Katt Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: I've heard two separate things about salt water tanks and beginners: 1) "Don't try it, they're hard for even someone experienced in freshwater fish." 2) "It's a lie, salt water tanks are perfect for beginners." I was wondering if y'all would be kind enough to talk about your personal experiences with salt water tanks. Thanks! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26032	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: what else would you recommend?

I'm certainly not an ACF expert but from all I've read and heard, they'll eat anything they can fit in their mouths so I'm not sure if you should be keeping them in the same tank as some of the fish you are keeping. Of course, the 20G is on the small side for the two ACF's so maybe you should turn the 20G into a community tank for your smaller fish and keep the larger fish in with the ACF's. The downside of this suggestion is that larger fish should have plenty of filtration in most cases but the ACF's do not like lots of filtration as it affects their lateral-line systems. Here's a couple of decent care sheets on ACF's for more info. http://www.flippersandfins.net/acfcaresheet.asp http://www.geocities.com/ptimlin/xenopus.html Your Bala Sharks are supposed to grow to around 16" each http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Balantiocheilus_melanopterus.html and should be in a really BIG tank.... 100G+... which is another reason why you would need lots of filtration in the 70G but then the over filtration is not good for the ACF's. Is there a chance you could trade the 20G for a 40-55G tank and then move the ACF's to the 55G and then you could probably get 1-2 more ACF's but make sure they are similar sized to the ones you have or they could be come meals. The other thing you could do is keep the 70G for the ACF's and get another BIG tank (100G++) for the Bala Sharks and the rest of your fish and just keep the 20G as a Q-tank or H-tank if needed? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thtanoyinguy Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 3:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] what else would you recommend? first off thanks for letting me join this group. i have a 20 gallon tanks that is currently empty and a 70 gallon that is my obsession. It is a freshwater tank that i have stocked with 2 albino clawed frogs, 3 danios, 2 bala sharks, 1 dragon fish, 3 guarmis, 1 red parrot cichlid, 1 molly and one orange fish that i am not sure what it is. i know i want more frogs cause they are just too cool. i am just wondering what else to get because my 14 month old daughter loves to look at the tank and all she can see is the parrot cichled. what would you recommend? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1292 - Release Date: 2/21/2008 4:09 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26033	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: Heaters

This whole thread has me curious if I'm the only one who does this...my betta lives in a "barracks" in my 55g tank. The dividers are removed so he has a reasonable amount of space, and he has a couple of pieces of frogbit as cover when he wants it. I purchased my "barracks" at a Big Al's store but they're also available on line at http://tiny.cc/FIOmc I like the Tom ones better than others I've seen, it's more secure and the slots are at the bottom rather than the sides, so waste falls through and it stays nice and clean. It also takes no space if you've got a tank going already. They get the benefit of proper heating and filtration but are safe from the other fish in the tank (and from my cats!) I've done this over the years in several tanks and my bettas live long healthy lives... Carmen > > I have hunted high and low but I have not been able to find one. Maybe you > can all help. I'm looking for a submersible heater for a 1/2 gallon Betta > tank. Do they make them?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26034	From: Kevin	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: question about my female betta

i have 4 girls in one tank and one looks like it got i a fight one of here fins is red the smaller finn nere hee gill and she has like 2 or 3 fadded spots what could this be?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26035	From: agolden85	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: New to this...

So, I just started getting into fish again since having some as a little kid. I bought a 10 gal. aquarium and decided to start off with tropical community fish. I have 3 Blue Delta Guppies, 3 Red Glowlight Danios, 3 Green Glowlight Danios, 2 Black Phantom Tetras, 3 Neon Tetra Jumbos, 3 Silver Hatchets, 2 Cory Cats, 2 Yoyo Botias, and 1 Pleco. I started off with just the 6 GloFish, 3 Guppies, and the Pleco and bought the others today. We let the new ones adjust to the new tank before adding them to the water directly for about 30 mins. Well, I just realized that one of my GloFish died and the water is a little cloudy. I tested the water and it's fine. The temperature is good. I don't see any reason why it should have died. We have been feeding them every morning before going to work... So... I'm confused. Anyone have a suggestion on what the problem is and why the fish died? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26036	From: Robert 1	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: New to this...

One things for sure, you're way over overcrowding. Dont know about tropicals but fish like goldfish need 10 gal per fish, just as a comparison. Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: agolden85 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 4:38 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New to this... So, I just started getting into fish again since having some as a little kid. I bought a 10 gal. aquarium and decided to start off with tropical community fish. I have 3 Blue Delta Guppies, 3 Red Glowlight Danios, 3 Green Glowlight Danios, 2 Black Phantom Tetras, 3 Neon Tetra Jumbos, 3 Silver Hatchets, 2 Cory Cats, 2 Yoyo Botias, and 1 Pleco. I started off with just the 6 GloFish, 3 Guppies, and the Pleco and bought the others today. We let the new ones adjust to the new tank before adding them to the water directly for about 30 mins. Well, I just realized that one of my GloFish died and the water is a little cloudy. I tested the water and it's fine. The temperature is good. I don't see any reason why it should have died. We have been feeding them every morning before going to work... So... I'm confused. Anyone have a suggestion on what the problem is and why the fish died? Any help would be greatly appreciated. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26037	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/22/2008
Subject: Re: New to this...

You and your fish are suffering from the same mistakes that many newbies make.... too many fish in an undersized tank that wasn't properly cycled (The Nitrogen Cycle). When you tested your water, what tests did you do and what were the results of the tests? I can almost guarantee you that you have a very high ammonia and/or nitrite level. Go to my blog page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/A%20to%20Z%20Of%20Fish%20Keeping and read over the link near the top on Cycling With Fish. While you are at that page, also take one or both of the free online tutorials, listed near the top, that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. Also scroll down a little and read over the blog for "Haley's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" and follow her guidelines. You will need to return several of your fish if you wish to keep the ones you really want to keep safe and healthy. You will need a Master Test Kit so you can properly test your water. You will have to do daily or several times daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes) to get the ammonia/nitrite levels back down to safe levels or you will lose more of your fish. Fish keeping is a lot like riding a bike... there is a learning curve but once you get down the basics, it's a very simple hobby to succeed at. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of agolden85 Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 11:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to this... So, I just started getting into fish again since having some as a little kid. I bought a 10 gal. aquarium and decided to start off with tropical community fish. I have 3 Blue Delta Guppies, 3 Red Glowlight Danios, 3 Green Glowlight Danios, 2 Black Phantom Tetras, 3 Neon Tetra Jumbos, 3 Silver Hatchets, 2 Cory Cats, 2 Yoyo Botias, and 1 Pleco. I started off with just the 6 GloFish, 3 Guppies, and the Pleco and bought the others today. We let the new ones adjust to the new tank before adding them to the water directly for about 30 mins. Well, I just realized that one of my GloFish died and the water is a little cloudy. I tested the water and it's fine. The temperature is good. I don't see any reason why it should have died. We have been feeding them every morning before going to work... So... I'm confused. Anyone have a suggestion on what the problem is and why the fish died? Any help would be greatly appreciated. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1294 - Release Date: 2/22/2008 6:39 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26038	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: n00b Betta questions

Beyond knowing that a pothos plant is a house plant, I really do not know anything about it. If it does like water, then I'd treat it like a philodendron, roots only in the water. BTW, for those who think they have a nitrate problem, a philodendron will help you by sucking them up, once you have a good healthy growth going. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Walker Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] n00b Betta questions What are your thoughts on pothos plants? At the office (one of my many jobs is at a vets office also) we have a betta living in about a 4 gallon brandy sniffer sifter whatever those things are called, its big anyways. Well we have a pothos plant in with it and he seems to love it. He was a donation to our office as the people who had him were moving and didnt want to take him with them. And yes believe it or not we even have a gal who gets her betta vet checked when ill, and he gets boarded there when she goes on vacation (we are a strickly exotics vets office, no cats or dogs unless you have a dingo or a cougar!). I have even taken one of my dead koi in as he died out of the blue, didnt want to loose all my pond fish so I had a necropsy done by one of our vets (he was once a zoo vet for umteen years). I also keep a female betta at the pet store in a 4 gallon fish bowl with this plant and she has been doing great also with it. I have often thought about cutting some of my own pothos plant I have and stick it in his tank as I know the plants do great with normal room lighting and my bedroom gets alot of lights from the windows and reptile UVB lights. But I am also leary as he has lived this long and I personally do not want to introduce something to him that could harm him, I am partial to my fish :) ~melissa --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > If you listen to that Tetra crap, you'll kill all > your fish. That so-called > service is JUNK!!!! Tetra also promotes their > chemical "Easy Balance with > Nitroban" in their emails which promote not doing > PWC's (partial water > changes) except every six months which is pure JUNK > and HORRIBLE advice to a > fish keeper... especially a newbie which are the > most frequent people to > sign up for that so-called service. Save your > email space and get > unsubscribe from that so-called service. > > Now.. to your tank. > > A 1.5G tank is much better than some of the > bowls/vases that many Bettas > have to live in. You should test your water on a > regular basis and before > each PWC and your test results will determine how > frequently you should be > doing PWC's. Depending on how much you overfeed, > etc., you may have to do > more frequent 25% PWC's. Do them at least weekly > but that may not be > enough. Without test results on water quality, it's > hard to tell. > > For the detritus in the gravel (not just missed food > but poop, etc.), you > should get a small gravel vacuum siphon and vacuum > the gravel weekly when > you do your PWC. That's one of the downsides of a > small tank... you can't > vacuum much of your gravel before removing too much > water so just try to get > as much detritus as you can with each 25% PWC and > you might have to do daily > 25% PWC's for the first week or so to get your > gravel clean but then you > might only have to do it weekly. Your test results > will let you know if you > are getting too much nitrogenous waste or your pH > will swing (due to higher > CO2 levels) to indicate that you have too much waste > in your tank. > > As far as plants, I've always gone with Anacharis in > smaller tanks with just > room lighting. It will do well and help with > removing nitrogenous waste, > removing CO2 and adding O2 to the little tank. And > your Betta will like > lounging around on the off shoots that grow off of > the main stalks. > Anacharis does not have to be planted and will > thrive while floating but > that's not good for a Betta tank since Bettas need > surface area to breath so > you would be best to plant the Anachari or use a > lead strip from the plant > store to anchor it down so it does not take up too > much surface area. If it > starts to grow too much, just use your scissors to > snip some off and start a > new bunch anchored at the bottom again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Robert Mazur > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] n00b Betta questions > > Hey guys. I've been watching some of the postings > regarding betta care and I > appreciate everyone else asking all the questions > I'm afraid to!! j/k > > When I got my 1.5 gal tank from Tetra I signed up > for their list and > support. I recieved an e-mail yesterday indicating > it's time for a 50% water > change. Is this something I should do in addition to > the weekly 25% water > changes? > > I know that it's been said that bettas thrive in a > 10G tank, but a 10G tank > at work on my desk is, well, impractical. <grin> My > guy (haven't named him > yet) is in love with his surroundings and is very > active. In addition to the > 50% water change, the other question that I have is > this: What is the best > way to clean out the excess food that has filtered > it's way down into the > gravel? > > Lastly, what live plants are recommended for a 1.5G > tank that bettas will > enjoy? > > Thanks for all the help!! > > Rob > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1292 - > Release Date: 2/21/2008 > 4:09 PM > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26039	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I got the hex tank going good, I think...BUT.......

> Curved spine? I have some Neon Tetras that have curved spines and was told by our local fish expert that is indicative of too much inbreeding... we call the Madison County fish here in western North Carolina.Grey Yeah, I know Petsmart isn't always the most knowledgeable, but the lady there said the same thing. Inbreeding is the most likely cause of his curved spine. I guess if it is like a birth defect, he is swimming just fine, and eating good, he must be ok. Well, at least not in pain...I would imagine he wouldn't eat or something if he was in pain. anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26040	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: water evaporating problem.....

i have a 70 gallon tank that is in my living room. my living room has 12 windows in it. (it used to be a porch that someone enclosed). i cannot keep the water at a good level.i keep it about 2 inches from full so my albino clawed frogs don't escape. i put a lid on the tank and put car window tint on the back of the tank and it still goes through about 20 gallons in about 2 weeks. i now that can't be normal because when i had my 20 gallon the water level only dropped an inch in 3 months... what should i do? last time i refilled the missing water i lost a bala shark...i don't want to keep loosing fish everytime i have to add water.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26041	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: water evaporating problem.....

I have a problem with evaporation also I usually have to replace about 2 gallons a day (my cat likes to drink from the filter also) but I keep water in gallon jugs that are prepared and ready to add. This makes it easier for me to add the water each morning. I have not had a problem with it effecting any of my fish though. -----Original Message----- From: thtanoyinguy <thtanoyinguy@...> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] water evaporating problem..... i have a 70 gallon tank that is in my living room. my living room has 12 windows in it. (it used to be a porch that someone enclosed). i cannot keep the water at a good level.i keep it about 2 inches from full so my albino clawed frogs don't escape. i put a lid on the tank and put car window tint on the back of the tank and it still goes through about 20 gallons in about 2 weeks. i now that can't be normal because when i had my 20 gallon the water level only dropped an inch in 3 months... what should i do? last time i refilled the missing water i lost a bala shark...i don't want to keep loosing fish everytime i have to add water. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26042	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: water evaporating problem.....

I Have a 75 gallon Tank of Africans and live in the desert in Nevada. I loose about a 1/2 gallon of water a day. This is due to the dry climate, the water is evaporated. When I leave my fish to travel I have automatic feeders, but need to get somebody to come and add water at least once a week, John in Nevada ¤H3ATH3R¤ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: I have a problem with evaporation also I usually have to replace about 2 gallons a day (my cat likes to drink from the filter also) but I keep water in gallon jugs that are prepared and ready to add. This makes it easier for me to add the water each morning. I have not had a problem with it effecting any of my fish though. -----Original Message----- From: thtanoyinguy <thtanoyinguy@...> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] water evaporating problem..... i have a 70 gallon tank that is in my living room. my living room has 12 windows in it. (it used to be a porch that someone enclosed). i cannot keep the water at a good level.i keep it about 2 inches from full so my albino clawed frogs don't escape. i put a lid on the tank and put car window tint on the back of the tank and it still goes through about 20 gallons in about 2 weeks. i now that can't be normal because when i had my 20 gallon the water level only dropped an inch in 3 months... what should i do? last time i refilled the missing water i lost a bala shark...i don't want to keep loosing fish everytime i have to add water. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26043	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: water evaporating problem.....

All my tanks (125G, 38G, 10G) drop at least ½ inch weekly. But it should not be a problem, because you just fill the tanks up to the correct level when you do your weekly partial water changes. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thtanoyinguy Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 2:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] water evaporating problem..... i have a 70 gallon tank that is in my living room. my living room has 12 windows in it. (it used to be a porch that someone enclosed). i cannot keep the water at a good level.i keep it about 2 inches from full so my albino clawed frogs don't escape. i put a lid on the tank and put car window tint on the back of the tank and it still goes through about 20 gallons in about 2 weeks. i now that can't be normal because when i had my 20 gallon the water level only dropped an inch in 3 months... what should i do? last time i refilled the missing water i lost a bala shark...i don't want to keep loosing fish everytime i have to add water. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26044	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: water evaporating problem.....

You need to put a cover on the tank that is closely trimmed around anything going through it (filter tubes, etc.). Then as the water evaporates, it will condense on the cover and drip back into the tank. You will still lose some but not nearly as much as you may be losing now. Did your 20G have a cover? Did the 20G have as much surface agitation? While surface agitation is good for allowing for proper gas exchange (releasing CO2, nitrogenous gas, adding O2, etc.), it will also allow for more evaporation. Also, since you are losing so much, if you are just topping off on a regular basis, that is not the same as doing PWC's (partial water changes) as the evaporated water leaves behind any salts, nitrogenous waste, DOC's (dissolved organic compounds), etc. When you do top off, you should make sure the water parameters (temp, pH, hardness, etc.) isn't too far off as a drastic change in parameters could cause a distressed fish to go into shock and die... especially the pH or temperature but the others could affect the osmoregulatory system as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thtanoyinguy Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] water evaporating problem..... i have a 70 gallon tank that is in my living room. my living room has 12 windows in it. (it used to be a porch that someone enclosed). i cannot keep the water at a good level.i keep it about 2 inches from full so my albino clawed frogs don't escape. i put a lid on the tank and put car window tint on the back of the tank and it still goes through about 20 gallons in about 2 weeks. i now that can't be normal because when i had my 20 gallon the water level only dropped an inch in 3 months... what should i do? last time i refilled the missing water i lost a bala shark...i don't want to keep loosing fish everytime i have to add water. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1294 - Release Date: 2/22/2008 6:39 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26045	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Re: New to this...

In a message dated 2/23/2008 12:40:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, agolden85@... writes: So, I just started getting into fish again since having some as a little kid. I bought a 10 gal. aquarium and decided to start off with tropical community fish. I can relate to your enthusiasm, since I had a 10g tank as a kid too. But I'm still waiting for the water cycle in my 30g tank to stabilize (4 weeks now) so that I can bring fish into a happy environment. Yep, Lenny has all the answers on his blog and I also read quite a few pretty picture books. The one thing I decided while reading was to have only 3 or 4 types of friendly fish - and only adding them slowly. I wish I could have all the pretty fish you mentioned, but it's not really possible. Good luck - Barbara **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26046	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: For the collectors of things fish

This may interest you. A clown fish for your bathtub, with 3 LEDs that actually light up. http://www.txmicro.com/Amphiprion-Percula-p-3313.html \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26047	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/23/2008
Subject: Make your own 220 volt backup power supply

http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2008/february/backuppower.htm Even though this speaks of a 220 V power source, I am sure it would be no trouble to use the math to make a 120 V power supply for when you may need it. Follow the link, and you will see this is an article from Science in Africa, a rather interesting publication, if you are into science at all--not much on fish, though. If you go to the home page, you can subscribe to the monthly newsletter, which tells of the new articles available online. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26048	From: Amy	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Hey that is my "Thing"

He is a beauty isn't he? That pic is of him as a baby. He now measures 6 inches long. I will have to get more pics of him.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26049	From: Amy	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: for Lenny

I am moving all my fish to a new house and I have the gist of how to do it from previous posts. We are going to travel about 2 hours and then of course have to set the tanks up as soon as we get there. I have not gotten any of the fancy stuff to transport them, and was wondering by your book which was the most important, for their survival of this trip.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26050	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: Make your own 220 volt backup power supply

Hi Steve, Not a bad idea. I remember frequent rolling black outs in California several years ago. Even now when we get heat waves the power cuts out. At one point when my wife and I were "discussing" the electricity bill going up because of my fishroom. So I looked into alternate power. Looked at solar and wind power for my fish room. Being a renter makes it unappealing to invest in solar, and wind power needs to usually be a minimum wind speed to generate power. That and the neighbors might not like the small windmill farm in the backyard :) So last year I invested in a small power inverter to run off of a 12 volt car battery. I spent extra to get a pure sine or true sine inverter in case my aquarium equipment required it. I did not purchase a battery for it as my plan was to hook it up to one of my vehicle batteries and recharge the battery periodically by running the car. I only planned to use it on my small linear air pump to keep my sponge filters running in my fish room. Thanks for sharing the article. Someday I hope to actually see about making a better back up system and maybe even getting some solar or wind power to try and cut down on my electricity bill -Mike In a message dated 2/23/2008 8:02:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, steve@... writes: _ttp://www.scienceittp://www.sttp://www.sciencttp://www.scittp_ (http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2008/february/backuppower.htm) Even though this speaks of a 220 V power source, I am sure it would be no trouble to use the math to make a 120 V power supply for when you may need it. Follow the link, and you will see this is an article from Science in Africa, a rather interesting publication, if you are into science at all--not much on fish, though. If you go to the home page, you can subscribe to the monthly newsletter, which tells of the new articles available online. \\Steve// **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26051	From: Amy	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Grass Valley, CA

Anyone in that area or in Auburn, who could recommend me a good fish place. Will need live food (guppies and ghost shrimp), and a live rock source. And of course all the rest too. Frozen foods, filter replacement. Moving in next weekend and may need supplies right away, depending on if what I have makes the trip or not. Thanks in advance (I wont have internet back until the 7th).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26052	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: Grass Valley, CA

Hi, I am down in the Bay Area so I am not too familiar with your area. I do have friends that are members of the Sacramento Aquarium Society that have members in your area. Perhaps they can be a helpful resource on finding a shop to suit your needs. I also recommend attending one of their meetings. They have some excellent fishkeepers. _http://www.sacramentoaquariumsociety.org/_ (http://www.sacramentoaquariumsociety.org/) March 1st they will have a guest speaker talking about Goodeids. I really want to make the trip to see this guy talk. I have recently taken an interest in them. -Mike In a message dated 2/24/2008 1:57:38 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, lovemyboys1976@... writes: Anyone in that area or in Auburn, who could recommend me a good fish place. Will need live food (guppies and ghost shrimp), and a live rock source. And of course all the rest too. Frozen foods, filter replacement. Moving in next weekend and may need supplies right away, depending on if what I have makes the trip or not. Thanks in advance (I wont have internet back until the 7th). **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26053	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: for Lenny

Since you are moving only 2 hours away, check to see if you are going to be on the same water source as you currently are. If you aren't, you should probably do a tap/source water baseline test on your current and new water sources so you will know those figures. Go to my blog on the first page near the bottom and I have details on finding your tap water baseline. If the baselines are on opposite ends of the spectrum, then you should plan to bring a lot of your existing source water to the new location so you can set the fish up in their existing water or at least 75% of their existing water. They will already be stressed enough from the move so you do not need to further stress them with a drastic change in water parameters. You don't need anything fancy. Some plastic storage bins will work fine. If you put a garbage bag in them first, you can fill them up further and then put a twist tie on the top of the bag which will keep the water from sloshing out of the bin during starts and stops. Here's a link I have in my favorites about moving with your fish. http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/moving_fish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 3:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] for Lenny I am moving all my fish to a new house and I have the gist of how to do it from previous posts. We are going to travel about 2 hours and then of course have to set the tanks up as soon as we get there. I have not gotten any of the fancy stuff to transport them, and was wondering by your book which was the most important, for their survival of this trip. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date: 2/23/2008 9:35 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26054	From: coryswalter	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Angel question

I have a gold angel......for about a week and a half, she has been on her back, upside down, on her side, on the bottom of the tank..... she is breathing and trying to swim.....if I turn her over, she stays for a little while and then goes back upside down.....what is wrong and what do I do???????????????? (I call her "her" because she is just beautiful and has to be a girl.) Thanks in advance for any help and advice..Cory

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26055	From: Amy	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: for Lenny

Ok cool. I wanted to know that before running out to buy air and heaters and such. I actually have already planned to take the salt water with the fish. The brackish boys will be fine. I was going to get a big trash bin and take their water on top of the 5 gallon buckets that will have the fish in them. So this shoudl work out okay. Wish me luck. ANd hey where did teh picture of my Lionfish go? I wanted to show hubby that his fish was featured on teh group page and now its gone. Oh well, lol. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since you are moving only 2 hours away, check to see if you are going to be > on the same water source as you currently are. If you aren't, you should > probably do a tap/source water baseline test on your current and new water > sources so you will know those figures. Go to my blog on the first page > near the bottom and I have details on finding your tap water baseline. > > If the baselines are on opposite ends of the spectrum, then you should plan > to bring a lot of your existing source water to the new location so you can > set the fish up in their existing water or at least 75% of their existing > water. They will already be stressed enough from the move so you do not > need to further stress them with a drastic change in water parameters. > > You don't need anything fancy. Some plastic storage bins will work fine. > If you put a garbage bag in them first, you can fill them up further and > then put a twist tie on the top of the bag which will keep the water from > sloshing out of the bin during starts and stops. > > Here's a link I have in my favorites about moving with your fish. > > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/moving_fish.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amy > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 3:37 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] for Lenny > > I am moving all my fish to a new house and I have the gist of how to do it > from previous posts. We are going to travel about 2 hours and then of course > have to set the tanks up as soon as we get there. > > I have not gotten any of the fancy stuff to transport them, and was > wondering by your book which was the most important, for their survival of > this trip. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date: 2/23/2008 > 9:35 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26056	From: JFazio	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: for Lenny

Although a newbie here (and in the fish world0, my books and the Web tell me that this could be a swim bladder fin problem... see this, from the net: Swim bladder is a common problem. No, bubbles from an airstone or airstrip do not cause swim bladder problems. It's mainly a problem with dry food, often a very hungry fish will gulp down dry flake or pellets, filling himself to his utter delight, only for the food to absorb water and expand almost twice it's size, especially with tiny pellets. Now the expanded food swells so much in the fishes gut that it presses against and interferes with the swim bladder and causes those dreaded equilibrium problems. Treatment for this condition includes green pea feedings and fasting off the fish's normal food until further investigation to the cause of the swim bladder problem is discovered and this: http://www.gbasonline.org/disease_chart.htm I hope your fish gets better. Jeannie At 02:44 PM 2/24/2008, you wrote: >Ok cool. I wanted to know that before running out to buy air and >heaters and such. I actually have already planned to take the salt >water with the fish. The brackish boys will be fine. I was going to >get a big trash bin and take their water on top of the 5 gallon >buckets that will have the fish in them. So this shoudl work out >okay. Wish me luck. ANd hey where did teh picture of my Lionfish >go? I wanted to show hubby that his fish was featured on teh group >page and now its gone. Oh well, lol. > >--- In ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, >"Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" ><GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Since you are moving only 2 hours away, check to see if you are >going to be > > on the same water source as you currently are. If you aren't, you >should > > probably do a tap/source water baseline test on your current and >new water > > sources so you will know those figures. Go to my blog on the first >page > > near the bottom and I have details on finding your tap water >baseline. > > > > If the baselines are on opposite ends of the spectrum, then you >should plan > > to bring a lot of your existing source water to the new location so >you can > > set the fish up in their existing water or at least 75% of their >existing > > water. They will already be stressed enough from the move so you >do not > > need to further stress them with a drastic change in water >parameters. > > > > You don't need anything fancy. Some plastic storage bins will work >fine. > > If you put a garbage bag in them first, you can fill them up >further and > > then put a twist tie on the top of the bag which will keep the >water from > > sloshing out of the bin during starts and stops. > > > > Here's a link I have in my favorites about moving with your fish. > > > > > <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/moving_fish.htm>http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/moving_fish.htm > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Amy > > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 3:37 AM > > To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] for Lenny > > > > I am moving all my fish to a new house and I have the gist of how >to do it > > from previous posts. We are going to travel about 2 hours and then >of course > > have to set the tanks up as soon as we get there. > > > > I have not gotten any of the fancy stuff to transport them, and was > > wondering by your book which was the most important, for their >survival of > > this trip. > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date: >2/23/2008 > > 9:35 PM > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 >- Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26057	From: Jim	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Pics posted

I have posted some pics of angel fish eggs layed on 2/18 by Smason and Delilah, one of my breeding pairs.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26058	From: deborahgd14	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Egg pictures

Great pictures of the angel's eggs. Johnny and June's look like there's a lot of bad ones. good luck. It sure is fun watching the eggs mature into wigglers and then angels. Deborah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26059	From: nicolettewall	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Help!! I have a question about my fish.

Im new to having fish and i have about 14. My one fish has problems sinking and floating sometimes. Usually my fish swims normal but sometimes my fish stays at the surface and is upside-down. He try's to swim down to the bottom but he can't, he just twists and turns and ends up floating back up to the surface. I feel bad for the poor thing and i would really like to know what is wrong with him. If anyone has any clue, please let me know. Thanks, Nicolette

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26060	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help!! I have a question about my fish.

Hi Nicolette, Your fish that is having trouble is either experiencing swim bladder issues or gastrointestinal issues (gas). Is it happening all of the time or only after eating or ??? Tell us a lot more about your tank, what kind of fish you have, the fish that is having problems, how long you've had them, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nicolettewall Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! I have a question about my fish. Im new to having fish and i have about 14. My one fish has problems sinking and floating sometimes. Usually my fish swims normal but sometimes my fish stays at the surface and is upside-down. He try's to swim down to the bottom but he can't, he just twists and turns and ends up floating back up to the surface. I feel bad for the poor thing and i would really like to know what is wrong with him. If anyone has any clue, please let me know. Thanks, Nicolette No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date: 2/23/2008 9:35 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26061	From: nate	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Filter Question

I am new to the group but have had smaller freshwater aquariums for years. i am looking to upgrade to a 55 gallon tank and am having trouble selecting a filter. i have been looking at canister filters and wet/dry sumps. i realize that the wet/dry sumps are considered better right off the bat. my question is which filter takes up the less space in the tank and secondly which looks better in the tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26062	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Question

Neither a sump nor a canister will actually take up space inside your main tank.. only their plumbing attachments. Each brand has different types of plumbing attachments/hoses that go into the tank. Some have the classic black attachments and others have different colors. My Rena Filstar canister filters have a light blue colored intake/suction tube and then a variety of return tubes. I have the sprayer bars set up on both of mine. The bars are black and mount up near the top of the tank so they are mostly hidden by the black tank frame. Whether you go with a sump or a canister, your plumbing into and out of the tank will be similar unless you go with an overflow box for the sump. What kind of fish tank were you planning for the 55G? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nate Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 7:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter Question I am new to the group but have had smaller freshwater aquariums for years. i am looking to upgrade to a 55 gallon tank and am having trouble selecting a filter. i have been looking at canister filters and wet/dry sumps. i realize that the wet/dry sumps are considered better right off the bat. my question is which filter takes up the less space in the tank and secondly which looks better in the tank. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date: 2/23/2008 9:35 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26063	From: Nathan Eshleman	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Question

i was planning on doing a freshwater tank. i live about 20 minutes from that fish place (aka thatpetplace.com) and they have a 55 gallon with stand and canopy. the specific aquarium i was looking at was already set up to do the sump. it had like a 1/4 round of the one corner sealed up with a vent type fixture. it also had two holes on the bottom of the partition. he said they would drill holes in the stand for the appropriate sump (megaflow sump model 2). he didn't show me a canister so i didn't know if it would also have a partition in the tank. nesh32 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter Question Neither a sump nor a canister will actually take up space inside your main tank.. only their plumbing attachments. Each brand has different types of plumbing attachments/hoses that go into the tank. Some have the classic black attachments and others have different colors. My Rena Filstar canister filters have a light blue colored intake/suction tube and then a variety of return tubes. I have the sprayer bars set up on both of mine. The bars are black and mount up near the top of the tank so they are mostly hidden by the black tank frame. Whether you go with a sump or a canister, your plumbing into and out of the tank will be similar unless you go with an overflow box for the sump. What kind of fish tank were you planning for the 55G? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nate Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 7:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter Question I am new to the group but have had smaller freshwater aquariums for years. i am looking to upgrade to a 55 gallon tank and am having trouble selecting a filter. i have been looking at canister filters and wet/dry sumps. i realize that the wet/dry sumps are considered better right off the bat. my question is which filter takes up the less space in the tank and secondly which looks better in the tank. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date: 2/23/2008 9:35 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26064	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Question

OK... that 55G is actually the sump tank, not a "normal" display tank if I'm understanding you accurately. Typically, a bigger tank would be used as the display tank and would be plumbed into a sump tank where all of the filtration media and hardware would be located so the main display tank is kept "pretty". Here's a website with lots of different types of tanks, sumps, etc. http://www.glasscages.com See if you can find a tank similar to yours and provide a link so we can see a picture of what you are looking at. If you are just doing a basic 55G community tank, I don't think you really need to set up a sump system but you could use the existing plumbing to connect a canister filter system. It's really up to you to decide what you want and what your expansion plans might be. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Eshleman Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filter Question i was planning on doing a freshwater tank. i live about 20 minutes from that fish place (aka thatpetplace.com) and they have a 55 gallon with stand and canopy. the specific aquarium i was looking at was already set up to do the sump. it had like a 1/4 round of the one corner sealed up with a vent type fixture. it also had two holes on the bottom of the partition. he said they would drill holes in the stand for the appropriate sump (megaflow sump model 2). he didn't show me a canister so i didn't know if it would also have a partition in the tank. nesh32 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter Question Neither a sump nor a canister will actually take up space inside your main tank.. only their plumbing attachments. Each brand has different types of plumbing attachments/hoses that go into the tank. Some have the classic black attachments and others have different colors. My Rena Filstar canister filters have a light blue colored intake/suction tube and then a variety of return tubes. I have the sprayer bars set up on both of mine. The bars are black and mount up near the top of the tank so they are mostly hidden by the black tank frame. Whether you go with a sump or a canister, your plumbing into and out of the tank will be similar unless you go with an overflow box for the sump. What kind of fish tank were you planning for the 55G? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nate Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 7:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter Question I am new to the group but have had smaller freshwater aquariums for years. i am looking to upgrade to a 55 gallon tank and am having trouble selecting a filter. i have been looking at canister filters and wet/dry sumps. i realize that the wet/dry sumps are considered better right off the bat. my question is which filter takes up the less space in the tank and secondly which looks better in the tank. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date: 2/23/2008 9:35 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26065	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 2/24/2008
Subject: Coldwater aquariums

I posted some pics of some local fish that I raise in a unheated tanks. I have been doing this for about 30 years and I have always found cold water fish as interesting, easier and as beautiful as tropicals. I am originally from the northeast coast of the US. Growing up I would keep common shiners, darters, bullheads, yellow pearch, small chain pickerel, sunfish and others as well as crayfish and various invertebrates. When I was in college, I made a brackish water tank to include animals from the local salt marshes and was surprised how easily some adapted to aquarium life--especially the sheepshead minnow which is incredibly beautiful when it is in spawning condition (mine spawned several times and the large babies are easy to raise). Thirteen years ago, I moved to Korea and, in addition to my tropical tanks, I have been raising local fish. There are some amazing ones like the fish in the photos--there are nearly a dozen species of bitterlings, at least six species of loaches and lots of other small fish that readily adapt to aquarium life given the proper conditions. I was wondering if anyone else raises fish native to where they are living. I would love to hear and share our experiences. I will post more pics a little later too Tom

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26066	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Coldwater aquariums

In a message dated 2/24/2008 9:53:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosquitokr2002@... writes: I will post more pics a little later too Amazing photos and fish. Did you catch them yourself? **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26067	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Coldwater aquariums

I have caught some of them myself. The ones pictured were collected by the biology department of the university I teach at and that I later was given before one of the semester breaks. They go every couple of years to different river systems and I have been able to ask for or adopt fish from them that I might not normally see. Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Maxmillionmaxcat@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/24/2008 9:53:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, > mosquitokr2002@... writes: > > I will post > more pics a little later too > > > > Amazing photos and fish. Did you catch them yourself? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26068	From: ED	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: water evaporating problem.....

I have the same problem when I turn on my AC. Even in Florida with the 80% plus humidity, AC's(evaporative) will pull miosture from the air. Arizona on the other hand have different AC(needs water) units. I'll lose about 1/2gal per day from the 55 and the 29.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26069	From: Paula Brown	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: DIY CO2

We are currently using a DIY CO2 (aka pop bottle with sugar, water and yeast) on a planted 20 gallon hex tank. So far so good. I will be adding a unit to my 55 gallon and another to my 29 gallon shortly. My question is this: we have a three gallon tank with a male Betta, one White Cloud and one Otto Cat. Again this tank is planted. Is that tank too small for a DIY CO2? I haven't read anything that small tanks are too small but thought I would ask. Thanks! Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26070	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Removing Algae from artificial plants

I removed some artificial plants from my aquarium that were covered in algae and soaked them in a dilute bleach solution. I then wrenched them several times in fresh water, added dechlor and let dry. After they had dried out I noticed that there was a white powder on some of the leaves. I suppose it is dead bleached algae. It is not noticeable when the plants are wet. Is it safe to put them back into the aquarium (if I add more dechlor drops) at this time? Jimmy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26071	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] DIY CO2

I think it’s too small, it’s already hard to control in a 10 gal. without fish, all plant can grow without injected Co2, they will not grow fat but they will, and for a 3 gal. I don’t think it’s good to have to prune every week. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Paula Brown Envoyé : February 25, 2008 2:59 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : [AquaticLife] DIY CO2 We are currently using a DIY CO2 (aka pop bottle with sugar, water and yeast) on a planted 20 gallon hex tank. So far so good. I will be adding a unit to my 55 gallon and another to my 29 gallon shortly. My question is this: we have a three gallon tank with a male Betta, one White Cloud and one Otto Cat. Again this tank is planted. Is that tank too small for a DIY CO2? I haven't read anything that small tanks are too small but thought I would ask. Thanks! Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26072	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons

I was lucky enough to receive a free 55 gallon tank with everything. I currently have a 29 tall and a 20 that I am wanting to do away with and put up the 55. My questions are: 1) should I completly clean everything before using it. The tank has been sitting for about 2.5 weeks in a 40 degree room with just a bit of water in the bottom. Same with the cannister filter. 2)I am wanting to do a moderately planted tank, so how do I go about doing that? and 3)What can I do with my fish while my 55 is cycling. I have had good luck with the few plants that I have: amazon, banana plant. In my 29 I have a yellow gourami, 2 blue gourami, and a red paradise fish. In my 20 I have a breeding pair of Angels that I am trying to rehome as I know I dont have the room for them. Any help would be great. Thank you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26073	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons

Where are you located... I would take the breeding pair of angels.Grey Asheville NC·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: keptbythecats@...: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:55:19 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons I was lucky enough to receive a free 55 gallon tank with everything. I currently have a 29 tall and a 20 that I am wanting to do away with and put up the 55. My questions are: 1) should I completly clean everything before using it. The tank has been sitting for about 2.5 weeks in a 40 degree room with just a bit of water in the bottom. Same with the cannister filter. 2)I am wanting to do a moderately planted tank, so how do I go about doing that? and 3)What can I do with my fish while my 55 is cycling. I have had good luck with the few plants that I have: amazon, banana plant. In my 29 I have a yellow gourami, 2 blue gourami, and a red paradise fish. In my 20 I have a breeding pair of Angels that I am trying to rehome as I know I dont have the room for them. Any help would be great. Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Removing Algae from artificial plants

Use a new soft bristled toothbrush to "scrub" the plants since that white powder could also be bleach residue which would mostly be salt since the chlorine typically will evaporate. You might also get it all off if you just rinse them under a good flow of water out of your faucet but the toothbrush would be better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 4:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Removing Algae from artificial plants I removed some artificial plants from my aquarium that were covered in algae and soaked them in a dilute bleach solution. I then wrenched them several times in fresh water, added dechlor and let dry. After they had dried out I noticed that there was a white powder on some of the leaves. I suppose it is dead bleached algae. It is not noticeable when the plants are wet. Is it safe to put them back into the aquarium (if I add more dechlor drops) at this time? Jimmy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26075	From: Shelley Kate Coffman	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Swordtails

Hi all, I have been trying to get a pair of red swordtails. The pet stores near me have been receiving bad fish, seems they are being imported from over seas. I have lost 2 females due to ick and velvet. Is there anything other than the typical preventions and ick meds. I would like to become a breeder for the locals to stop this importation disease but cannot get a female to live long enough or be healthy enough to breed.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26076	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: newbie question

I've just ordered a 54 gallon corner tank - my birthday present from my husband! I was wondering - does everyone paint the back of their aquariums? One store told me that they would do that for me....I'm not sure what to do. The walls behind this aquarium are dark blue....thanks for your advice in advance! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26077	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: newbie question

The only reasonI can see for painting the back of the tank (or using one of those backgrounds) is to keep air pump tubing, electrical cords and HOB filter reservoirs from sight. Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: hillfarm@...: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:44:22 -0500Subject: [AquaticLife] newbie question I've just ordered a 54 gallon corner tank - my birthday present from my husband! I was wondering - does everyone paint the back of their aquariums? One store told me that they would do that for me....I'm not sure what to do. The walls behind this aquarium are dark blue....thanks for your advice in advance!Shari [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26078	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: newbie question

Some people will paint the back with a black water based paint which will make the plants and fish show up better in most cases. The downside of painting it is that it's not too difficult, but not easy to remove if you ever want to change things. You can buy the mylar aquarium scenes that can be applied to the back of the tank with baby oil or vaseline to make it like "one with the glass" or you can just put it on the back with tape but it won't look as good as when it's applied to the back like a film. Before Katrina, I was working on decorating my tank with the holidays like a Christmas Tank, New Years Tank, Mardi Gras Tank, etc., but I've been too busy to fool with decorations lately so the fish just have to live with their plain old tank scheme. LOL Another idea I saw in a forum was to have your kids or grandkids draw/color/paint backgrounds on poster board and put them on the back of the tank on a revolving basis. A little change from hanging them on your fridge. I adopted/saved a severely overstocked 10G tank a couple of years ago and it had a poster board background with greenish brown near the bottom and bluish a couple of inches up from the bottom up to the top and it actually looked pretty good. I still have that background on that same 10G tank for my cherry shrimp tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 7:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] newbie question I've just ordered a 54 gallon corner tank - my birthday present from my husband! I was wondering - does everyone paint the back of their aquariums? One store told me that they would do that for me....I'm not sure what to do. The walls behind this aquarium are dark blue....thanks for your advice in advance! Shari No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26079	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Additives

Thanks Lenny for the reply on removing powder form artificial plants. I have my own water well and therefore I am not concerned with chlorine or chloramine in my water. My question to the group is there any advantage to adding the additives such as Allantoin, etc. to the PWC done weekly? Most of the additives claim to remove or inactivate heavy metals as well as remove chlorine and chloramine. Should I use them even though I don't have chlorine? Jimmy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26080	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: FW: [AquaticLife] newbie question

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26081	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Swordtails

Here's a website for one of the big wholesalers that distribute fish to local fish stores and pet stores, including chain stores like PetsMart. You can use the function to locate a store in your area that they deliver to and if your LFS isn't on their list, maybe talk to one of the other stores about special ordering you some females. Use this page to look at the fish they sell and then use the tab for "Locate A Pet Shop" once you are sure they sell what you want. http://www.segrestfarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.search A better bet would be to advertise on Craigslist, etc., to find someone locally that has the fish you want and go pick them up directly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shelley Kate Coffman Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 7:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Swordtails Hi all, I have been trying to get a pair of red swordtails. The pet stores near me have been receiving bad fish, seems they are being imported from over seas. I have lost 2 females due to ick and velvet. Is there anything other than the typical preventions and ick meds. I would like to become a breeder for the locals to stop this importation disease but cannot get a female to live long enough or be healthy enough to breed. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26082	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: newbie question

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26083	From: Jim	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: What's going on?

I have twice tried to post an answer to a post and when it arrives on the board what I typed has been removed.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26084	From: Jim	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: newbie question

Placing a mirror on the sides facing the wall will make the lateral depth of the tank appear larger and will double the number of fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, shari rivenburg <hillfarm@...> wrote: > > I've just ordered a 54 gallon corner tank - my birthday present from my > husband! I was wondering - does everyone paint the back of their > aquariums? One store told me that they would do that for me....I'm not > sure what to do. The walls behind this aquarium are dark blue....thanks > for your advice in advance! > > Shari >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26085	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Additives

Do you have a county agent or local university lab who can test your water for heavy metals or other possible farm runoff like phosphates, etc.? I doubt you would have a chlorine/chloramine issue but your county agent would probably know that also... or at least be able to test for it. What do your own test results show for your water? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH? I wasn't familiar with "allantoin" so I did a quick Google and I'm not sure why you would want to add that to your tanks? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allantoin The primary chemical in most tap water treatments is Sodium Thiosulfate for removal of chlorine and then other very long-named chemicals for the treatment of heavy metals, etc. If you do not need to add any of these things to your water, then I wouldn't do it. For us city-folk, we are forced to use these chemicals or risk injury to our fish from the tap water. Another negative that I've heard of from well water is that it can have a very low O2 content and very high CO2 content so you want to make sure and aerate it into your tank(s) when doing PWC's so you do not cause distress to the fish due to low O2 levels or a dramatic pH drop due to high CO2 levels. This can also happen with tap water so it's not limited to well water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Additives Thanks Lenny for the reply on removing powder form artificial plants. I have my own water well and therefore I am not concerned with chlorine or chloramine in my water. My question to the group is there any advantage to adding the additives such as Allantoin, etc. to the PWC done weekly? Most of the additives claim to remove or inactivate heavy metals as well as remove chlorine and chloramine. Should I use them even though I don't have chlorine? Jimmy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26086	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: newbie question

Be careful of overstocking problems when you "double the number of fish". ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: newbie question Placing a mirror on the sides facing the wall will make the lateral depth of the tank appear larger and will double the number of fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , shari rivenburg <hillfarm@...> wrote: > > I've just ordered a 54 gallon corner tank - my birthday present from my > husband! I was wondering - does everyone paint the back of their > aquariums? One store told me that they would do that for me....I'm not > sure what to do. The walls behind this aquarium are dark blue....thanks > for your advice in advance! > > Shari > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26087	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: What's going on?

I see you received the post in HTML format. Are you typing your reply within the original message or at the top? If you are typing it within the original reply, Yahoo could be trashing the message. I personally get all Yahoo groups in plain text to avoid all the junk that comes with HTML formatting. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What's going on? I have twice tried to post an answer to a post and when it arrives on the board what I typed has been removed. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26088	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: What's going on?

Thanks Lenny... I was using rich text and did not notice. Grey .´¯`..¸¸.>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...> <..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸ To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: GoldLenny@... > Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 21:50:54 -0600 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What's going on? > > I see you received the post in HTML format. Are you typing your reply > within the original message or at the top? If you are typing it within the > original reply, Yahoo could be trashing the message. I personally get all > Yahoo groups in plain text to avoid all the junk that comes with HTML > formatting. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jim > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] What's going on? > > I have twice tried to post an answer to a post and when it arrives on the > board what I typed has been removed. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 > 12:19 PM > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > .´Z`..¸¸.>..´Z`..¸¸..´Z`..¸> ¸..´Z`..¸. , ..´Z`...> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <..´Z`..¸¸..´Z`..¸ We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ > > Your email settings: > Individual Email | Traditional > > To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > To change settings via email: > mailto:AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26089	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons

I would clean everything unless you know for certain that the tank was perfectly healthy prior to your receiving it. You can use vinegar to clean any hard water buildup off the glass, etc. Then use a heavy concentrate salt water solution to clean everything and that will kill any parasites and bacteria. You could then rinse it well and if you want to be double sure, use Hydrogen Peroxide on everything. HP is H2O2 so after it oxidizes (bubbles), it is losing one of the O molecules and basically becomes water so it's not harmful if you don't rinse it all out. Using bleach works too but then you have to rinse, rinse, rinse and rinse some more. The heavy concentration of salt water will also dilute if you miss any when rinsing and will not harm your fish since it would be such a minor amount of salt that you might miss when rinsing. After you clean everything and replace the filter media in the canister, you could then "clone" one of your existing tanks into the 55G so you would not have to cycle it. All you would do is set it up as a planted tank, then move your fish and current filter system over to the new tank. The filter media contains the overwhelming majority of the good N-bacteria so that will handle your fish bioload along with the plants until the new filter is cycled. After you've run the canister a couple of weeks and you want to remove your "old" filter system, you could actually add the filter media from the old filter system into the canister filter which would transfer most of the good N-bacteria so you would likely see no cycling issues. Here's a link and there are separate links to "substrates" and "setting up a planted tank" and this entire website has lots of good info on planted tanks. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm Why don't you keep three tanks and give the 29G to the angelfish? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons I was lucky enough to receive a free 55 gallon tank with everything. I currently have a 29 tall and a 20 that I am wanting to do away with and put up the 55. My questions are: 1) should I completly clean everything before using it. The tank has been sitting for about 2.5 weeks in a 40 degree room with just a bit of water in the bottom. Same with the cannister filter. 2)I am wanting to do a moderately planted tank, so how do I go about doing that? and 3)What can I do with my fish while my 55 is cycling. I have had good luck with the few plants that I have: amazon, banana plant. In my 29 I have a yellow gourami, 2 blue gourami, and a red paradise fish. In my 20 I have a breeding pair of Angels that I am trying to rehome as I know I dont have the room for them. Any help would be great. Thank you. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26090	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons

Thank you Lenny for the info. First, I live in Parkville, Missouri. Just north of Kansas City. Second, I would love to keep the 29 gallon tank however I also have a 30 gallon in my bedroom plus 2 dogs, 2 cats, and 8 birds. Thats not counting my sons snake and tarauntula. I hope I spelled that right. My house is less than 900 square feet. The kids have to live somewhere. Alanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I would clean everything unless you know for certain that the tank was > perfectly healthy prior to your receiving it. You can use vinegar to clean > any hard water buildup off the glass, etc. Then use a heavy concentrate > salt water solution to clean everything and that will kill any parasites and > bacteria. You could then rinse it well and if you want to be double sure, > use Hydrogen Peroxide on everything. HP is H2O2 so after it oxidizes > (bubbles), it is losing one of the O molecules and basically becomes water > so it's not harmful if you don't rinse it all out. Using bleach works too > but then you have to rinse, rinse, rinse and rinse some more. The heavy > concentration of salt water will also dilute if you miss any when rinsing > and will not harm your fish since it would be such a minor amount of salt > that you might miss when rinsing. > > After you clean everything and replace the filter media in the canister, you > could then "clone" one of your existing tanks into the 55G so you would not > have to cycle it. All you would do is set it up as a planted tank, then > move your fish and current filter system over to the new tank. The filter > media contains the overwhelming majority of the good N-bacteria so that will > handle your fish bioload along with the plants until the new filter is > cycled. After you've run the canister a couple of weeks and you want to > remove your "old" filter system, you could actually add the filter media > from the old filter system into the canister filter which would transfer > most of the good N-bacteria so you would likely see no cycling issues. > > Here's a link and there are separate links to "substrates" and "setting up a > planted tank" and this entire website has lots of good info on planted > tanks. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm > > Why don't you keep three tanks and give the 29G to the angelfish? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of pkvzookeeper > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons > > I was lucky enough to receive a free 55 gallon tank with everything. I > currently have a 29 tall and a 20 that I am wanting to do away with and put > up the 55. My questions are: 1) should I completly clean everything before > using it. The tank has been sitting for about 2.5 weeks in a 40 degree room > with just a bit of water in the bottom. Same with the cannister filter. 2)I > am wanting to do a moderately planted tank, so how do I go about doing that? > and 3)What can I do with my fish while my > 55 is cycling. I have had good luck with the few plants that I have: > amazon, banana plant. In my 29 I have a yellow gourami, 2 blue gourami, and > a red paradise fish. In my 20 I have a breeding pair of Angels that I am > trying to rehome as I know I dont have the room for them. Any help would be > great. Thank you. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 > 12:19 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons

Well you should look for a local fish club for someone to rehome the angelfish with unless someone in this group lives nearby and wants them. Another option, if you have a decent LFS (local fish store), is you could trade them in and get a store credit and let them find a new home for the angelfish. I had to do that last year with my common pleco since I wasn't able to upgrade from my 65G to a 150G after Katrina and he was starting to get too big for my 65G. They gave me $25.00 store credit (1/2 of what they sell 10" common pleco's for) and sold him the next day to someone with a 200G cichlid tank so he should be having fun now. I still haven't spent all of that store credit but I did just get a clown pleco last night for my 65G. They only grow to around 5" so he's a better choice. Or you could trade the kids in before they reach the terrible teens. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 10:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons Thank you Lenny for the info. First, I live in Parkville, Missouri. Just north of Kansas City. Second, I would love to keep the 29 gallon tank however I also have a 30 gallon in my bedroom plus 2 dogs, 2 cats, and 8 birds. Thats not counting my sons snake and tarauntula. I hope I spelled that right. My house is less than 900 square feet. The kids have to live somewhere. Alanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I would clean everything unless you know for certain that the tank was > perfectly healthy prior to your receiving it. You can use vinegar to clean > any hard water buildup off the glass, etc. Then use a heavy concentrate > salt water solution to clean everything and that will kill any parasites and > bacteria. You could then rinse it well and if you want to be double sure, > use Hydrogen Peroxide on everything. HP is H2O2 so after it oxidizes > (bubbles), it is losing one of the O molecules and basically becomes water > so it's not harmful if you don't rinse it all out. Using bleach works too > but then you have to rinse, rinse, rinse and rinse some more. The heavy > concentration of salt water will also dilute if you miss any when rinsing > and will not harm your fish since it would be such a minor amount of salt > that you might miss when rinsing. > > After you clean everything and replace the filter media in the canister, you > could then "clone" one of your existing tanks into the 55G so you would not > have to cycle it. All you would do is set it up as a planted tank, then > move your fish and current filter system over to the new tank. The filter > media contains the overwhelming majority of the good N-bacteria so that will > handle your fish bioload along with the plants until the new filter is > cycled. After you've run the canister a couple of weeks and you want to > remove your "old" filter system, you could actually add the filter media > from the old filter system into the canister filter which would transfer > most of the good N-bacteria so you would likely see no cycling issues. > > Here's a link and there are separate links to "substrates" and "setting up a > planted tank" and this entire website has lots of good info on planted > tanks. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm > <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm> > > Why don't you keep three tanks and give the 29G to the angelfish? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of pkvzookeeper > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons > > I was lucky enough to receive a free 55 gallon tank with everything. I > currently have a 29 tall and a 20 that I am wanting to do away with and put > up the 55. My questions are: 1) should I completly clean everything before > using it. The tank has been sitting for about 2.5 weeks in a 40 degree room > with just a bit of water in the bottom. Same with the cannister filter. 2)I > am wanting to do a moderately planted tank, so how do I go about doing that? > and 3)What can I do with my fish while my > 55 is cycling. I have had good luck with the few plants that I have: > amazon, banana plant. In my 29 I have a yellow gourami, 2 blue gourami, and > a red paradise fish. In my 20 I have a breeding pair of Angels that I am > trying to rehome as I know I dont have the room for them. Any help would be > great. Thank you. > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26092	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons

Too late on the kids--My son will be 20 in March and my daughter 17 in April. Anyway, I will check into a fish store that I know about trading in the angels. Again, Thank you. Alanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well you should look for a local fish club for someone to rehome the > angelfish with unless someone in this group lives nearby and wants them. > > Another option, if you have a decent LFS (local fish store), is you could > trade them in and get a store credit and let them find a new home for the > angelfish. I had to do that last year with my common pleco since I wasn't > able to upgrade from my 65G to a 150G after Katrina and he was starting to > get too big for my 65G. They gave me $25.00 store credit (1/2 of what they > sell 10" common pleco's for) and sold him the next day to someone with a > 200G cichlid tank so he should be having fun now. I still haven't spent all > of that store credit but I did just get a clown pleco last night for my 65G. > They only grow to around 5" so he's a better choice. > > Or you could trade the kids in before they reach the terrible teens. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of pkvzookeeper > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 10:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons > > Thank you Lenny for the info. First, I live in Parkville, Missouri. > Just north of Kansas City. Second, I would love to keep the 29 gallon tank > however I also have a 30 gallon in my bedroom plus 2 dogs, 2 cats, and 8 > birds. Thats not counting my sons snake and tarauntula. I hope I spelled > that right. My house is less than 900 square feet. The kids have to live > somewhere. Alanna > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I would clean everything unless you know for certain that the tank > was > > perfectly healthy prior to your receiving it. You can use vinegar > to clean > > any hard water buildup off the glass, etc. Then use a heavy > concentrate > > salt water solution to clean everything and that will kill any > parasites and > > bacteria. You could then rinse it well and if you want to be > double sure, > > use Hydrogen Peroxide on everything. HP is H2O2 so after it > oxidizes > > (bubbles), it is losing one of the O molecules and basically > becomes water > > so it's not harmful if you don't rinse it all out. Using bleach > works too > > but then you have to rinse, rinse, rinse and rinse some more. The > heavy > > concentration of salt water will also dilute if you miss any when > rinsing > > and will not harm your fish since it would be such a minor amount > of salt > > that you might miss when rinsing. > > > > After you clean everything and replace the filter media in the > canister, you > > could then "clone" one of your existing tanks into the 55G so you > would not > > have to cycle it. All you would do is set it up as a planted tank, > then > > move your fish and current filter system over to the new tank. The > filter > > media contains the overwhelming majority of the good N-bacteria so > that will > > handle your fish bioload along with the plants until the new filter > is > > cycled. After you've run the canister a couple of weeks and you > want to > > remove your "old" filter system, you could actually add the filter > media > > from the old filter system into the canister filter which would > transfer > > most of the good N-bacteria so you would likely see no cycling > issues. > > > > Here's a link and there are separate links to "substrates" > and "setting up a > > planted tank" and this entire website has lots of good info on > planted > > tanks. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm > > <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm> > > > > Why don't you keep three tanks and give the 29G to the angelfish? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of pkvzookeeper > > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 12:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading from 29 to 55gallons > > > > I was lucky enough to receive a free 55 gallon tank with > everything. I > > currently have a 29 tall and a 20 that I am wanting to do away with > and put > > up the 55. My questions are: 1) should I completly clean everything > before > > using it. The tank has been sitting for about 2.5 weeks in a 40 > degree room > > with just a bit of water in the bottom. Same with the cannister > filter. 2)I > > am wanting to do a moderately planted tank, so how do I go about > doing that? > > and 3)What can I do with my fish while my > > 55 is cycling. I have had good luck with the few plants that I > have: > > amazon, banana plant. In my 29 I have a yellow gourami, 2 blue > gourami, and > > a red paradise fish. In my 20 I have a breeding pair of Angels that > I am > > trying to rehome as I know I dont have the room for them. Any help > would be > > great. Thank you. > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 > 12:19 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26093	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Additives

My test on the water showed Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, pH 7.2 and GH/KH 5/6. I also did a phosphate test and it was 0 also. I don't know about heavy metals. Allantoin is one of the ingredients in Jungle's Start Right (I only used that as an example). In the past I haven't used any additives with my PWC's. I have only used the dechlor when I was cleaning the artificial plants with bleach. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Additives Do you have a county agent or local university lab who can test your water for heavy metals or other possible farm runoff like phosphates, etc.? I doubt you would have a chlorine/chloramine issue but your county agent would probably know that also... or at least be able to test for it. What do your own test results show for your water? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH? I wasn't familiar with "allantoin" so I did a quick Google and I'm not sure why you would want to add that to your tanks? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allantoin The primary chemical in most tap water treatments is Sodium Thiosulfate for removal of chlorine and then other very long-named chemicals for the treatment of heavy metals, etc. If you do not need to add any of these things to your water, then I wouldn't do it. For us city-folk, we are forced to use these chemicals or risk injury to our fish from the tap water. Another negative that I've heard of from well water is that it can have a very low O2 content and very high CO2 content so you want to make sure and aerate it into your tank(s) when doing PWC's so you do not cause distress to the fish due to low O2 levels or a dramatic pH drop due to high CO2 levels. This can also happen with tap water so it's not limited to well water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Additives Thanks Lenny for the reply on removing powder form artificial plants. I have my own water well and therefore I am not concerned with chlorine or chloramine in my water. My question to the group is there any advantage to adding the additives such as Allantoin, etc. to the PWC done weekly? Most of the additives claim to remove or inactivate heavy metals as well as remove chlorine and chloramine. Should I use them even though I don't have chlorine? Jimmy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2008
Subject: Re: Additives

Be careful adding some of the JUNK that these reputable companies put out. Some of their products are great but others are complete JUNK and will turn your tank into a chemical cess pool worth of being on the Superfund list. Start Right sounds like one of the junk chemicals. Judging from your source water test results, it sounds pretty good but you should also do the baseline test as I wrote about in a recent blog... still on the first page of my blog near the bottom to make sure those numbers stay the same after 24 and 48 hours. If they do stay the same, the main thing you need to keep an eye on is your KH as your tank matures but you could buffer it up a little with Baking Soda http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp to keep from having pH drops or crashes between PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Additives My test on the water showed Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, pH 7.2 and GH/KH 5/6. I also did a phosphate test and it was 0 also. I don't know about heavy metals. Allantoin is one of the ingredients in Jungle's Start Right (I only used that as an example). In the past I haven't used any additives with my PWC's. I have only used the dechlor when I was cleaning the artificial plants with bleach. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Additives Do you have a county agent or local university lab who can test your water for heavy metals or other possible farm runoff like phosphates, etc.? I doubt you would have a chlorine/chloramine issue but your county agent would probably know that also... or at least be able to test for it. What do your own test results show for your water? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH? I wasn't familiar with "allantoin" so I did a quick Google and I'm not sure why you would want to add that to your tanks? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allantoin The primary chemical in most tap water treatments is Sodium Thiosulfate for removal of chlorine and then other very long-named chemicals for the treatment of heavy metals, etc. If you do not need to add any of these things to your water, then I wouldn't do it. For us city-folk, we are forced to use these chemicals or risk injury to our fish from the tap water. Another negative that I've heard of from well water is that it can have a very low O2 content and very high CO2 content so you want to make sure and aerate it into your tank(s) when doing PWC's so you do not cause distress to the fish due to low O2 levels or a dramatic pH drop due to high CO2 levels. This can also happen with tap water so it's not limited to well water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Additives Thanks Lenny for the reply on removing powder form artificial plants. I have my own water well and therefore I am not concerned with chlorine or chloramine in my water. My question to the group is there any advantage to adding the additives such as Allantoin, etc. to the PWC done weekly? Most of the additives claim to remove or inactivate heavy metals as well as remove chlorine and chloramine. Should I use them even though I don't have chlorine? Jimmy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26095	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Swordtails

I think I saw some on aquabid recently. -Mike In a message dated 2/25/2008 5:34:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ky_dream_catcher05@... writes: Hi all, I have been trying to get a pair of red swordtails. The pet stores near me have been receiving bad fish, seems they are being imported from over seas. I have lost 2 females due to ick and velvet. Is there anything other than the typical preventions and ick meds. I would like to become a breeder for the locals to stop this importation disease but cannot get a female to live long enough or be healthy **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26096	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Additives

I have well water and it fabulous for my hard-water-loving African cichlids straight from the tap. No chlorine, ammonia, nitrates or nitrites. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 10:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Additives Do you have a county agent or local university lab who can test your water for heavy metals or other possible farm runoff like phosphates, etc.? I doubt you would have a chlorine/chloramine issue but your county agent would probably know that also... or at least be able to test for it. What do your own test results show for your water? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH? I wasn't familiar with "allantoin" so I did a quick Google and I'm not sure why you would want to add that to your tanks? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allantoin The primary chemical in most tap water treatments is Sodium Thiosulfate for removal of chlorine and then other very long-named chemicals for the treatment of heavy metals, etc. If you do not need to add any of these things to your water, then I wouldn't do it. For us city-folk, we are forced to use these chemicals or risk injury to our fish from the tap water. Another negative that I've heard of from well water is that it can have a very low O2 content and very high CO2 content so you want to make sure and aerate it into your tank(s) when doing PWC's so you do not cause distress to the fish due to low O2 levels or a dramatic pH drop due to high CO2 levels. This can also happen with tap water so it's not limited to well water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Additives Thanks Lenny for the reply on removing powder form artificial plants. I have my own water well and therefore I am not concerned with chlorine or chloramine in my water. My question to the group is there any advantage to adding the additives such as Allantoin, etc. to the PWC done weekly? Most of the additives claim to remove or inactivate heavy metals as well as remove chlorine and chloramine. Should I use them even though I don't have chlorine? Jimmy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26097	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Additives

I did the baseline test on my source water as your Blog suggested and the numbers remained the same at 24 and 48 hours. Thanks again for your help and input Lenny. I have never added any additives to my tank. I only purchased the Start Right at Walmarts to remove the chlorine from the water I had cleaned the artificial plants in with bleach. That was the only brand they had at the time. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 12:52 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Additives Be careful adding some of the JUNK that these reputable companies put out. Some of their products are great but others are complete JUNK and will turn your tank into a chemical cess pool worth of being on the Superfund list. Start Right sounds like one of the junk chemicals. Judging from your source water test results, it sounds pretty good but you should also do the baseline test as I wrote about in a recent blog... still on the first page of my blog near the bottom to make sure those numbers stay the same after 24 and 48 hours. If they do stay the same, the main thing you need to keep an eye on is your KH as your tank matures but you could buffer it up a little with Baking Soda http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp to keep from having pH drops or crashes between PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Additives My test on the water showed Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, pH 7.2 and GH/KH 5/6. I also did a phosphate test and it was 0 also. I don't know about heavy metals. Allantoin is one of the ingredients in Jungle's Start Right (I only used that as an example). In the past I haven't used any additives with my PWC's. I have only used the dechlor when I was cleaning the artificial plants with bleach. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Additives Do you have a county agent or local university lab who can test your water for heavy metals or other possible farm runoff like phosphates, etc.? I doubt you would have a chlorine/chloramine issue but your county agent would probably know that also... or at least be able to test for it. What do your own test results show for your water? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH? I wasn't familiar with "allantoin" so I did a quick Google and I'm not sure why you would want to add that to your tanks? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allantoin The primary chemical in most tap water treatments is Sodium Thiosulfate for removal of chlorine and then other very long-named chemicals for the treatment of heavy metals, etc. If you do not need to add any of these things to your water, then I wouldn't do it. For us city-folk, we are forced to use these chemicals or risk injury to our fish from the tap water. Another negative that I've heard of from well water is that it can have a very low O2 content and very high CO2 content so you want to make sure and aerate it into your tank(s) when doing PWC's so you do not cause distress to the fish due to low O2 levels or a dramatic pH drop due to high CO2 levels. This can also happen with tap water so it's not limited to well water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Additives Thanks Lenny for the reply on removing powder form artificial plants. I have my own water well and therefore I am not concerned with chlorine or chloramine in my water. My question to the group is there any advantage to adding the additives such as Allantoin, etc. to the PWC done weekly? Most of the additives claim to remove or inactivate heavy metals as well as remove chlorine and chloramine. Should I use them even though I don't have chlorine? Jimmy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26098	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Additives

Even though the pH does vary somewhat in the source water (6.8 to 7.2), it is very stable in the aquarium. I was surprised to find that the pH went up a couple of tenths once it was added to the aquarium. It has always tested at 7.5 in the aquarium. So far I am very happy with the well water. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Additives I have well water and it fabulous for my hard-water-loving African cichlids straight from the tap. No chlorine, ammonia, nitrates or nitrites. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 10:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Additives Do you have a county agent or local university lab who can test your water for heavy metals or other possible farm runoff like phosphates, etc.? I doubt you would have a chlorine/chloramine issue but your county agent would probably know that also... or at least be able to test for it. What do your own test results show for your water? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH? I wasn't familiar with "allantoin" so I did a quick Google and I'm not sure why you would want to add that to your tanks? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allantoin The primary chemical in most tap water treatments is Sodium Thiosulfate for removal of chlorine and then other very long-named chemicals for the treatment of heavy metals, etc. If you do not need to add any of these things to your water, then I wouldn't do it. For us city-folk, we are forced to use these chemicals or risk injury to our fish from the tap water. Another negative that I've heard of from well water is that it can have a very low O2 content and very high CO2 content so you want to make sure and aerate it into your tank(s) when doing PWC's so you do not cause distress to the fish due to low O2 levels or a dramatic pH drop due to high CO2 levels. This can also happen with tap water so it's not limited to well water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Additives Thanks Lenny for the reply on removing powder form artificial plants. I have my own water well and therefore I am not concerned with chlorine or chloramine in my water. My question to the group is there any advantage to adding the additives such as Allantoin, etc. to the PWC done weekly? Most of the additives claim to remove or inactivate heavy metals as well as remove chlorine and chloramine. Should I use them even though I don't have chlorine? Jimmy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26099	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Dead goldfish

I am beside myself after waking up to find my pair of sweet fancy goldfish dead in their 29 gallon tank. Over the weekend, I bought what is called "Quick Cure" for what the fish store person said was a parasite problem that the goldfish must have come here with 2 weeks ago. My tank was only about 4 weeks old at the time I got them. It had been established with tetras who are now in my 55 gallon and still doing well. Anyway, the goldfish had this slime covering most of their bodies, including eyes, and it was falling off into the tank. I did a partial water change then added the correct dosage of Marycn Plus on Sunday after discovering the problem late Saturday night. By Sunday night they seemed so much better. Last night, however, one had the white stuff on his eyes so, at the recommendation of this fish store employee, I added 29 drops of Quick Cure (1 drop per gallon were the instructions). Their water parameters were normal. In fact, I wrote to the aquahobby.com goldfish portion of the forum on Sunday asking for help. Here is what the water tested like on that day. Water parameters are nitrate=0; nitrite=0; hardness=25; chlorine=0; alkalinity=0; pH=6.2; ammonia=in between 0 and 0.5 (I immediately did another partial water change after seeing an ammonia reading) Does anyone know what might have caused this? I think it was the Quick Cure, as they ate good and were acting perky just prior to adding it to their tank. Thanks. Jeannie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26100	From: Luke	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: angel fish chokeing?

hi i have an angelfish that acts like its chokeing. it is hand feed and might just be geting to big of a first bit it only happens when he gets to excited and gulps down a bunch of flakes or bloodworms at once he shakes and spasms. and after that first bite he backs off a littel and is fine.i was just hopeing that it wasn't a sign of desease if i try to spread the food out so he dosent get any huge bites he is fine . thanks luke

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26101	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Dead goldfish

Jeannie, I use Quick Cure for treating Ick and have great success with it.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: aquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: jfazio@...: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:23:12 -0500Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead goldfish I am beside myself after waking up to find my pair of sweet fancy goldfish dead in their 29 gallon tank.Over the weekend, I bought what is called "Quick Cure" for what the fish store person said was a parasite problem that the goldfish must have come here with 2 weeks ago. My tank was only about 4 weeks old at the time I got them. It had been established with tetras who are now in my 55 gallon and still doing well.Anyway, the goldfish had this slime covering most of their bodies, including eyes, and it was falling off into the tank. I did a partial water change then added the correct dosage of Marycn Plus on Sunday after discovering the problem late Saturday night. By Sunday night they seemed so much better. Last night, however, one had the white stuff on his eyes so, at the recommendation of this fish store employee, I added 29 drops of Quick Cure (1 drop per gallon were the instructions).Their water parameters were normal. In fact, I wrote to the aquahobby.com goldfish portion of the forum on Sunday asking for help. Here is what the water tested like on that day.Water parameters are nitrate=0; nitrite=0; hardness=25; chlorine=0; alkalinity=0; pH=6.2; ammonia=in between 0 and 0.5 (I immediately did another partial water change after seeing an ammonia reading)Does anyone know what might have caused this? I think it was the Quick Cure, as they ate good and were acting perky just prior to adding it to their tank.Thanks.Jeannie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26102	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Dead goldfish

Jeannie, Am sorry to hear of your fish losses. While a 29 gallon tank for 2 goldfish would eventually be too small, this is a moot point at this time, although you don't say how large the fish were. Quick Cure contains Formalin and Malachite Green, usually used as a medication against Ich, but effective against many external parasite (including flukes). As for its safeness, plain formalin would have been better as Malachite Green should never be used at full dosage on scaleless fish. Normally, goldfish are completely covered with scales, however depending on what variety of "fancy goldfish" you had, its scale coverage could vary in which case the dye part of this medication would have penetrated through the skin if your goldfish had been less protected than more common types. Too, and again depending on the size of the fish, the ammonia could have risen once more since this medication would have killed off your nitrifying bacteria, even though you did another PWC after getting a reading of near 0.5 ppm. Note too, that if you had any salt in the tank, this would react adversely with the formalin. With your alkalinity at "0", and your pH already at 6.2, you might also have had a pH crash. So there are a number of factors to consider, depending on what fits the scene best. Did you happen to take a pH and/or an ammonia reading afterwards? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > I am beside myself after waking up to find my pair of sweet fancy > goldfish dead in their 29 gallon tank. > > Over the weekend, I bought what is called "Quick Cure" for what the > fish store person said was a parasite problem that the goldfish must > have come here with 2 weeks ago. My tank was only about 4 weeks old > at the time I got them. It had been established with tetras who are > now in my 55 gallon and still doing well. > > Anyway, the goldfish had this slime covering most of their bodies, > including eyes, and it was falling off into the tank. I did a > partial water change then added the correct dosage of Marycn Plus on > Sunday after discovering the problem late Saturday night. By Sunday > night they seemed so much better. Last night, however, one had the > white stuff on his eyes so, at the recommendation of this fish store > employee, I added 29 drops of Quick Cure (1 drop per gallon were the > instructions). > > Their water parameters were normal. In fact, I wrote to the > aquahobby.com goldfish portion of the forum on Sunday asking for > help. Here is what the water tested like on that day. > > Water parameters are nitrate=0; nitrite=0; hardness=25; chlorine=0; > alkalinity=0; pH=6.2; ammonia=in between 0 and 0.5 (I immediately did > another partial water change after seeing an ammonia reading) > > > Does anyone know what might have caused this? I think it was the > Quick Cure, as they ate good and were acting perky just prior to > adding it to their tank. > > > Thanks. > > Jeannie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26103	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Dead goldfish

Hi Ray: My fancy goldfish were fantails. I took no other tests. My water always tests like this in alkalinity and ph. Even with the big tank, which the community fish (2 angels, 3 rainbows, tetras and corys) have been thriving in for a few years now. Thanks so much for your help. Jeannie At 10:31 AM 2/26/2008, you wrote: >Jeannie, Am sorry to hear of your fish losses. While a 29 gallon >tank for 2 goldfish would eventually be too small, this is a moot >point at this time, although you don't say how large the fish were. >Quick Cure contains Formalin and Malachite Green, usually used as a >medication against Ich, but effective against many external parasite >(including flukes). As for its safeness, plain formalin would have >been better as Malachite Green should never be used at full dosage on >scaleless fish. Normally, goldfish are completely covered with >scales, however depending on what variety of "fancy goldfish" you >had, its scale coverage could vary in which case the dye part of this >medication would have penetrated through the skin if your goldfish >had been less protected than more common types.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26104	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Dead goldfish

ps I just tested the water. The results are the same as they were on Sunday, w/ammonia being 0.5. Does what you're saying in the second to the last sentence - about the ph and alkalinity "crash" (what does that mean?) - indicate that given my water parameters, I should not have Goldfish? The community does well. My angels, for example, keep laying eggs. Thanks again, Ray. J At 10:31 AM 2/26/2008, you wrote: >Jeannie, Am sorry to hear of your fish losses. While a 29 gallon >tank for 2 goldfish would eventually be too small, this is a moot >point at this time, although you don't say how large the fish were. >Quick Cure contains Formalin and Malachite Green, usually used as a >medication against Ich, but effective against many external parasite >(including flukes). As for its safeness, plain formalin would have >been better as Malachite Green should never be used at full dosage on >scaleless fish. Normally, goldfish are completely covered with >scales, however depending on what variety of "fancy goldfish" you >had, its scale coverage could vary in which case the dye part of this >medication would have penetrated through the skin if your goldfish >had been less protected than more common types. > >Too, and again depending on the size of the fish, the ammonia could >have risen once more since this medication would have killed off your >nitrifying bacteria, even though you did another PWC after getting a >reading of near 0.5 ppm. Note too, that if you had any salt in the >tank, this would react adversely with the formalin. With your >alkalinity at "0", and your pH already at 6.2, you might also have >had a pH crash. So there are a number of factors to consider, >depending on what fits the scene best. Did you happen to take a pH >and/or an ammonia reading afterwards? Ray > >--- In ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, >Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > > > I am beside myself after waking up to find my pair of sweet fancy > > goldfish dead in their 29 gallon tank. > > > > Over the weekend, I bought what is called "Quick Cure" for what the > > fish store person said was a parasite problem that the goldfish >must > > have come here with 2 weeks ago. My tank was only about 4 weeks >old > > at the time I got them. It had been established with tetras who >are > > now in my 55 gallon and still doing well. > > > > Anyway, the goldfish had this slime covering most of their bodies, > > including eyes, and it was falling off into the tank. I did a > > partial water change then added the correct dosage of Marycn Plus >on > > Sunday after discovering the problem late Saturday night. By >Sunday > > night they seemed so much better. Last night, however, one had the > > white stuff on his eyes so, at the recommendation of this fish >store > > employee, I added 29 drops of Quick Cure (1 drop per gallon were >the > > instructions). > > > > Their water parameters were normal. In fact, I wrote to the > > aquahobby.com goldfish portion of the forum on Sunday asking for > > help. Here is what the water tested like on that day. > > > > Water parameters are nitrate=0; nitrite=0; hardness=25; chlorine=0; > > alkalinity=0; pH=6.2; ammonia=in between 0 and 0.5 (I immediately >did > > another partial water change after seeing an ammonia reading) > > > > > > Does anyone know what might have caused this? I think it was the > > Quick Cure, as they ate good and were acting perky just prior to > > adding it to their tank. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jeannie > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 >- Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26105	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Additives

This likely means that you have a slightly elevated CO2 level in your well water, which will lower the pH. After you put the water into your tank, the CO2 outgases and the pH rises. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Additives Even though the pH does vary somewhat in the source water (6.8 to 7.2), it is very stable in the aquarium. I was surprised to find that the pH went up a couple of tenths once it was added to the aquarium. It has always tested at 7.5 in the aquarium. So far I am very happy with the well water. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Additives I have well water and it fabulous for my hard-water-loving African cichlids straight from the tap. No chlorine, ammonia, nitrates or nitrites. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 10:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Additives Do you have a county agent or local university lab who can test your water for heavy metals or other possible farm runoff like phosphates, etc.? I doubt you would have a chlorine/chloramine issue but your county agent would probably know that also... or at least be able to test for it. What do your own test results show for your water? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH? I wasn't familiar with "allantoin" so I did a quick Google and I'm not sure why you would want to add that to your tanks? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allantoin The primary chemical in most tap water treatments is Sodium Thiosulfate for removal of chlorine and then other very long-named chemicals for the treatment of heavy metals, etc. If you do not need to add any of these things to your water, then I wouldn't do it. For us city-folk, we are forced to use these chemicals or risk injury to our fish from the tap water. Another negative that I've heard of from well water is that it can have a very low O2 content and very high CO2 content so you want to make sure and aerate it into your tank(s) when doing PWC's so you do not cause distress to the fish due to low O2 levels or a dramatic pH drop due to high CO2 levels. This can also happen with tap water so it's not limited to well water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Additives Thanks Lenny for the reply on removing powder form artificial plants. I have my own water well and therefore I am not concerned with chlorine or chloramine in my water. My question to the group is there any advantage to adding the additives such as Allantoin, etc. to the PWC done weekly? Most of the additives claim to remove or inactivate heavy metals as well as remove chlorine and chloramine. Should I use them even though I don't have chlorine? Jimmy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26106	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Dead goldfish

No, I'm not saying that you should not have goldfish, although keep in mind while they should have little trouble adjusting to a lower pH, their preferred range is really between pH 7.0 and 7.6, even though they'll easily tolerate from pH 6.5 to 8.5. Since your test results are all the same, your pH has not "crashed". This can happen though when the natural process resulting from the nitrogen cycle increases the acidity to a point of overtaking any buffering capacity (alkalinity) of your water, dropping the pH beyond the range tolerable for most aquarium fish. Since your alkalinity reading was "0", you obviously don't have much buffering capacity, although your frequent partial water changes must keep things in check. Since your pH is in the acid range, any ammonia you have (0.5 ppm) is in the form of relatively safe ammonium. Added to that, Since your water parameters look safe, that seems to point to the medication as your problem. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@...> wrote: > > ps I just tested the water. The results are the > same as they were on Sunday, w/ammonia being > 0.5. Does what you're saying in the second to > the last sentence - about the ph and alkalinity > "crash" (what does that mean?) - indicate that > given my water parameters, I should not have > Goldfish? The community does well. My angels, > for example, keep laying eggs. Thanks again, Ray. J > > At 10:31 AM 2/26/2008, you wrote: > > >Jeannie, Am sorry to hear of your fish losses. While a 29 gallon > >tank for 2 goldfish would eventually be too small, this is a moot > >point at this time, although you don't say how large the fish were. > >Quick Cure contains Formalin and Malachite Green, usually used as a > >medication against Ich, but effective against many external parasite > >(including flukes). As for its safeness, plain formalin would have > >been better as Malachite Green should never be used at full dosage on > >scaleless fish. Normally, goldfish are completely covered with > >scales, however depending on what variety of "fancy goldfish" you > >had, its scale coverage could vary in which case the dye part of this > >medication would have penetrated through the skin if your goldfish > >had been less protected than more common types. > > > >Too, and again depending on the size of the fish, the ammonia could > >have risen once more since this medication would have killed off your > >nitrifying bacteria, even though you did another PWC after getting a > >reading of near 0.5 ppm. Note too, that if you had any salt in the > >tank, this would react adversely with the formalin. With your > >alkalinity at "0", and your pH already at 6.2, you might also have > >had a pH crash. So there are a number of factors to consider, > >depending on what fits the scene best. Did you happen to take a pH > >and/or an ammonia reading afterwards? Ray > > > >--- In > ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > >Jeannie Fazio <jfazio@> wrote: > > > > > > I am beside myself after waking up to find my pair of sweet fancy > > > goldfish dead in their 29 gallon tank. > > > > > > Over the weekend, I bought what is called "Quick Cure" for what the > > > fish store person said was a parasite problem that the goldfish > >must > > > have come here with 2 weeks ago. My tank was only about 4 weeks > >old > > > at the time I got them. It had been established with tetras who > >are > > > now in my 55 gallon and still doing well. > > > > > > Anyway, the goldfish had this slime covering most of their bodies, > > > including eyes, and it was falling off into the tank. I did a > > > partial water change then added the correct dosage of Marycn Plus > >on > > > Sunday after discovering the problem late Saturday night. By > >Sunday > > > night they seemed so much better. Last night, however, one had the > > > white stuff on his eyes so, at the recommendation of this fish > >store > > > employee, I added 29 drops of Quick Cure (1 drop per gallon were > >the > > > instructions). > > > > > > Their water parameters were normal. In fact, I wrote to the > > > aquahobby.com goldfish portion of the forum on Sunday asking for > > > help. Here is what the water tested like on that day. > > > > > > Water parameters are nitrate=0; nitrite=0; hardness=25; chlorine=0; > > > alkalinity=0; pH=6.2; ammonia=in between 0 and 0.5 (I immediately > >did > > > another partial water change after seeing an ammonia reading) > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know what might have caused this? I think it was the > > > Quick Cure, as they ate good and were acting perky just prior to > > > adding it to their tank. > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Jeannie > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 > >- Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26107	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

I may be moving from Arizona to Oregon. I would probably be driving a Uhaul truck there. I have a 10 gallon hexagon aquarium with mollies, glofish (danios), and neon tetras. I also have a 20 gallon rectangular aquarium with danios, mollies, swordtails, and platys. How can I get them from AZ to OR safely? Any thoughts? Thanks, anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26108	From: Frederic Ouellet	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

We moved our 10 and 55 gallon by Uhaul - 8 hour drive. The local fish store bagged all of our fish for us, put them in a cooler to try and save some heat and we kept 50% of each tank in buckets and drained them. As soon as we got to the new house we set up both tanks and didn't loose one fish! Cynthia ----- Original Message ----- From: Anndrea To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Transporting fish a lonnng way??? I may be moving from Arizona to Oregon. I would probably be driving a Uhaul truck there. I have a 10 gallon hexagon aquarium with mollies, glofish (danios), and neon tetras. I also have a 20 gallon rectangular aquarium with danios, mollies, swordtails, and platys. How can I get them from AZ to OR safely? Any thoughts? Thanks, anndrea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26109	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

> We moved our 10 and 55 gallon by Uhaul - 8 hour drive. The local fish store bagged all of our fish for us, put them in a cooler to try and save some heat and we kept 50% of each tank in buckets and drained them. As soon as we got to the new house we set up both tanks and didn't loose one fish! > > Cynthia Sounds like it worked out really well for you. Only issue I have is that I believe it is 24 hours of driving to get from where I am to where I might be going. Might be half one day, stay overnight, half the next if I can't find another driver. Maybe I could leave their tanks all set up and put them in with the half a tank of water for the night, then back into baggies the next morning for the rest of the drive??? I have no idea how long they can be in baggies but that seems like a lot. Maybe take a few days to do it? Stay overnight twice so it is only 8 hour shifts of driving and 8 hour shifts of them being in baggies? anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26110	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: DIY CO2

In a message dated 2/25/2008 2:59:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, browngip@... writes: We are currently using a DIY CO2 (aka pop bottle with sugar, water and yeast) on a planted 20 gallon hex tank. I've never heard of this before. Do you add it to your water and what does it exactly do? **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26111	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

I would place them in a large bag in the cooler and twist the top to eliminate the sloshing. Get a battery operated air pump to place in the bag in a large cooler that contained the fish and the tank water they usually live in. I have transported them from Phoenix to North Carolina that way without losing a single fish. I would fast them for 2 days prior to leaving on the trip to keep the amount of poo that would foul the water. Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: anndreae@...: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:23:23 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way??? > We moved our 10 and 55 gallon by Uhaul - 8 hour drive. The local fish store bagged all of our fish for us, put them in a cooler to try and save some heat and we kept 50% of each tank in buckets and drained them. As soon as we got to the new house we set up both tanks and didn't loose one fish!> > CynthiaSounds like it worked out really well for you.Only issue I have is that I believe it is 24 hours of driving to get from where I am to where I might be going. Might be half one day, stay overnight, half the next if I can't find another driver.Maybe I could leave their tanks all set up and put them in with the half a tank of water for the night, then back into baggies the next morning for the rest of the drive???I have no idea how long they can be in baggies but that seems like a lot.Maybe take a few days to do it? Stay overnight twice so it is only 8 hour shifts of driving and 8 hour shifts of them being in baggies?anndrea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26112	From: my_cycling	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: newbie question

I love to paint the back of my tank. You can go to Walmart (or wherever) and select any color of cheap interior housepaint you want. You can even have it custom made to match your favorite tank ornament, your fish's eyes, your snail's shell, etc. (lol) if you want. Then paint several coats on the EXTERIOR of your back pannel. You may also paint side pannels if you wish. On one of my tanks I sponged a first layer in one color, let it dry, sponged another color, let it dry, sponged the first, let that dry again, and did a final flat coat of the first. This gave it a really cool shadowed 3d effect. The nice thing about this latex paint is that when you get tired of it or want to change, you can carefully scrape it off and start again with a new color or new background of your choice. I'm not sure what the petstore would do for you, but this is certainly a simple and economical way to do it yourself. Cheryl :D

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26113	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

> I would place them in a large bag in the cooler and twist the top to eliminate the sloshing. Get a battery operated air pump to place in the bag in a large cooler that contained the fish and the tank water they usually live in. I have transported them from Phoenix to North Carolina that way without losing a single fish. I would fast them for 2 days prior to leaving on the trip to keep the amount of poo that would foul the water. Grey How much was a battery operated air pump? I love my fish, but I don't want to spend a ton to get them there. If I fast them for 2 days, then do the battery air pump thing, how long can they stay in that bag in the cooler? I would love to only stay overnight once...12 hours a day driving...and even then only if I have to...if they fast 2 days, will they make it another two? anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26114	From: ED	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: angel fish chokeing?

That's normal. All six of ours will stuff toooo much in thier lil gullet then , POOF a cloud of food. We feed bloodworms, brine, mysis shrimp(3-4 times the size of brine) and flakes(tetrafin). Little at a time is the best. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Luke" <lukeleming@...> wrote: > > hi i have an angelfish that acts like its chokeing. it is hand feed and > might just be geting to big of a first bit it only happens when he gets > to excited and gulps down a bunch of flakes or bloodworms at once he > shakes and spasms. and after that first bite he backs off a littel and > is fine.i was just hopeing that it wasn't a sign of desease if i try to > spread the food out so he dosent get any huge bites he is fine . > > > thanks luke >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26115	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

Fasting them for several days will not hurt them. Battery operated air pumps can be found on ebay for less than $15... cheaper than replacing fish and your conscience will be better too. To give you an idea, my trip took three days to get here and another day to get my tanks set up. As long as they have oxygenated air going into the water you could probably keep them that way for a week. Just make sure that the temperature maintains a rather stable level.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: anndreae@...: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:37:42 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way??? > I would place them in a large bag in the cooler and twist the top to eliminate the sloshing. Get a battery operated air pump to place in the bag in a large cooler that contained the fish and the tank water they usually live in. I have transported them from Phoenix to North Carolina that way without losing a single fish. I would fast them for 2 days prior to leaving on the trip to keep the amount of poo that would foul the water. GreyHow much was a battery operated air pump?I love my fish, but I don't want to spend a ton to get them there.If I fast them for 2 days, then do the battery air pump thing, how long can they stay in that bag in the cooler?I would love to only stay overnight once...12 hours a day driving...and even then only if I have to...if they fast 2 days, will they make it another two?anndrea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26116	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

> Fasting them for several days will not hurt them. Battery operated air pumps can be found on ebay for less than $15... cheaper than replacing fish and your conscience will be better too. To give you an idea, my trip took three days to get here and another day to get my tanks set up. As long as they have oxygenated air going into the water you could probably keep them that way for a week. Just make sure that the temperature maintains a rather stable level.Grey wow...ok, well I will definitely look into battery operated pump...probly a good thing to have in a power outage too! And my fish would be cheap to replace, but why kill them needlessly, ya know? it would weigh heavy on my conscience :-) Plus I have what I call a good balance of colors in my tanks and don't know that I'd want to go through the whole new fish thing again and hope to find everything I want again. Ok, almost a good balance...I need some bright blue fish, but that will happen eventually, plus I want to add some glass cats. anyway, that was off topic. thanks for the info on the portable pump! anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26117	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

BTW, I forgot to mention that I placed a short piece of air tubing in the twist in the bag ti allow the air that you pump in to escape.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: anndreae@...: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:06:43 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way??? > Fasting them for several days will not hurt them. Battery operated air pumps can be found on ebay for less than $15... cheaper than replacing fish and your conscience will be better too. To give you an idea, my trip took three days to get here and another day to get my tanks set up. As long as they have oxygenated air going into the water you could probably keep them that way for a week. Just make sure that the temperature maintains a rather stable level.Greywow...ok, well I will definitely look into battery operated pump...probly a good thing to have in a power outage too!And my fish would be cheap to replace, but why kill them needlessly, ya know? it would weigh heavy on my conscience :-) Plus I have what I call a good balance of colors in my tanks and don't know that I'd want to go through the whole new fish thing again and hope to find everything I want again.Ok, almost a good balance...I need some bright blue fish, but that will happen eventually, plus I want to add some glass cats.anyway, that was off topic.thanks for the info on the portable pump!anndrea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26118	From: Anndrea	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

> BTW, I forgot to mention that I placed a short piece of air tubing in the twist in the bag ti allow the air that you pump in to escape.Grey Oh, and water didn't come out the short piece of tubing? anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26119	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

Here's several threads/articles on moving cross country. There is no one-plan for everyone since different people have different needs and resources, so you might be able to pick up different ideas from each article/thread to help you form your plan. http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/freshwater-general-discussion/28882-i-moved- 3-000-miles-my-fish-update-after-move.html http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/moving_fish.htm http://www.goldfishparadise.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=29098 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=129060 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 12:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Transporting fish a lonnng way??? I may be moving from Arizona to Oregon. I would probably be driving a Uhaul truck there. I have a 10 gallon hexagon aquarium with mollies, glofish (danios), and neon tetras. I also have a 20 gallon rectangular aquarium with danios, mollies, swordtails, and platys. How can I get them from AZ to OR safely? Any thoughts? Thanks, anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26120	From: Jon Pearl - W4ABC	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: DIY CO2

http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html Jon Pearl - St. Petersburg ----- Original Message ----- From: <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY CO2 I've never heard of this before. Do you add it to your water and what does it exactly do?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: DIY CO2

Here's a page showing how to make a DIY CO2 reactor and all about CO2 and planted tanks. http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html (scroll down about 2/3's for the 2 liter bottle CO2 reactor) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY CO2 In a message dated 2/25/2008 2:59:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, browngip@... <mailto:browngip%40michigan.gov> writes: We are currently using a DIY CO2 (aka pop bottle with sugar, water and yeast) on a planted 20 gallon hex tank. I've never heard of this before. Do you add it to your water and what does it exactly do? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26122	From: fhzcmc	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: messenger fish

hi there Does someone knows which fish is the one shown in the messenger default fond? They are yellow tailed or headed, blue and grey stripes.... Thank you Fer

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26123	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Pregnant Platy ?

Hi. I'm fairly new to the Group and this hobby. I've found the information obtained from this group unbelievably helpful. Thank you all for sharing all that you do. I do have a question though. I have a pregnant Tuxedo Platy. The daddy is a Mickey Mouse Platy so I can't wait to see what the babies will look like =) Anyhoo, I've tried to get a lot of information about pregnant platy's from this group and the past few days have been most helpful. But I'm wondering if it could hurt her to be in the "mommy-to-be house" for too long? Or is there such a thing as "too long"? It's one of those boxy, net looking ones. It's also hanging from the side of her original tank so she never left her original home. I know there is no certain number of days for gestation but can someone give me a round-a-bout number??? Thanks again for everything. Lisa Alabama

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26124	From: theaquariumfish	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Additives

The additive "Allantoin" in Jungles is a derivitive of an herb called Comphrey. It promotes faster healing (especially bones) by as much as 30 to 40 percent faster. Just thought I would let you know that even humans can eat it! me - Randy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jimmy McHaney" <jimmym@...> wrote: > > My test on the water showed Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, pH 7.2 and > GH/KH 5/6. I also did a phosphate test and it was 0 also. I don't know > about heavy metals. > Allantoin is one of the ingredients in Jungle's Start Right (I only used > that as an example). In the past I haven't used any additives with my > PWC's. I have only used the dechlor when I was cleaning the artificial > plants with bleach. > > Jimmy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26125	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Source of Fish

If anyone else in this group lives in Louisiana and knows of a good source of fish I would like to know about it. I live in Husser, LA. Husser is located about 35 miles north of Covington/Mandeville. It is area code 70442. I would be willing to travel about 2 hours each way if necessary. I prefer the private Tropical Fish Shop rather than the chains. Jimmy McHaney [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26126	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Source of Fish

Jimmy, Have you looked around to see if there are any local Aquarium societies? Since you are willing to drive a while I bet there is one within driving distance. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Jimmy McHaney <jimmym@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 2:56 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Source of Fish If anyone else in this group lives in Louisiana and knows of a good source of fish I would like to know about it. I live in Husser, LA. Husser is located about 35 miles north of Covington/Mandeville. It is area code 70442. I would be willing to travel about 2 hours each way if necessary. I prefer the private Tropical Fish Shop rather than the chains. Jimmy McHaney [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26127	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: DIY CO2

In a message dated 2/26/2008 4:21:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Here's a page showing how to make a DIY CO2 reactor and all about CO2 and planted tanks. Thanks Lenny - That was a helpful link - I've considered growing my own plants as the selection here is limited. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26128	From: Me	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?

I have found with most live berriors that all you need to do is do a partial water change and mommy will just send them right out. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 26, 2008, at 3:37 PM, "Lisa Robinson" <oo.lisa.oo@...> wrote: > Hi. I'm fairly new to the Group and this hobby. > > I've found the information obtained from this group > > unbelievably helpful. Thank you all for sharing > > all that you do. > > I do have a question though. I have a pregnant > > Tuxedo Platy. The daddy is a Mickey Mouse Platy > > so I can't wait to see what the babies will look like =) > > Anyhoo, I've tried to get a lot of information about > > pregnant platy's from this group and the past > > few days have been most helpful. But I'm wondering > > if it could hurt her to be in the "mommy-to-be house" > > for too long? Or is there such a thing as "too long"? > > It's one of those boxy, net looking ones. It's also > > hanging from the side of her original tank so she > > never left her original home. I know there is no > > certain number of days for gestation but can someone > > give me a round-a-bout number??? > > Thanks again for everything. > > Lisa > > Alabama > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26129	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: messenger fish

Where are you talking about? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fhzcmc Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 2:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] messenger fish hi there Does someone knows which fish is the one shown in the messenger default fond? They are yellow tailed or headed, blue and grey stripes.... Thank you Fer No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26130	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Additives

I refer to those kinds of additives in a regular "tap water conditioner" as "JUNK" chemicals. They are chemicals that are not needed 100% of the time in your aquarium. The same kind of junk chemicals that are in the stress-this and slime-that type products. Fish do a lot better in water... not chemicals. Sure we have to use the basic tap water conditioner if you are on a public utility that adds chlorine or chloramine and if you are in an area known to have heavy metals, then it's a good idea to treat for that also but don't continually dose your fish with all the other junk that some of these products purport to treat. Now... if your fish has an injury or illness, then certainly you should treat them but I just don't think it's a good idea to have them constantly exposed to these unnecessary chemicals or unneeded medicines. As far as humans eating it... I wouldn't knowingly eat it according to this description from http://chemicalland21.com/lifescience/phar/ALLANTOIN.htm "Allantoin, the diureide of glyoxylic acid, is a crystallizable oxidation product of uric acid found in allantoic and amniotic fluids, in fetal urine and in many plants. (Ureide is a compound derived from urea and contains acid radicles. Those from one molecule of urea, as alloxan, are monoureides; those derived from two, as uric acid, are diureides). Allantoin is an urinary excretion product of purine metabolism in most mammals but not in higher apes including humans. It is produced synthetically by the oxidation of uric acid. Allantoin is active in skin-softening (keratolytic effect) and rapid cell regeneration by precipitating proteins on skin. It is used as an abrasive and astringent agent in the end products include cosmetic lotions, creams, suntan products, scalp preparations, shampoos , lipsticks and and various aerosol preparations. It is used in topical pharmaceutical preparations. Allantoin has been used in various oral hygeine preparations such as toothpaste and mouthwash as well as in eye drops to treat watering eyes and in ear drops to clean the ear canal. Alloxan is an oxidized product of uric acid by nitric acid. When administered to experimental animals, it produces selective destruction of the beta cells of the pancreas, causing hyperglycemia and ketoacidosis. Alloxan, a strong oxidizing agent, and its reduced product dialuric acid form alloxantin (a hemiacetal) which is used as a raw material to produce ammonium purpurate dye, murexide (C8H5N5O6·NH3) with heating at 100 C in ammonia gas. Murexide is used as a complexometric titration indicator and as a colorimetric reagent for measurement of calcium and rare earth metals." But then again... maybe it tastes like chicken! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theaquariumfish Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Additives The additive "Allantoin" in Jungles is a derivitive of an herb called Comphrey. It promotes faster healing (especially bones) by as much as 30 to 40 percent faster. Just thought I would let you know that even humans can eat it! me - Randy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jimmy McHaney" <jimmym@...> wrote: > > My test on the water showed Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, pH 7.2 and > GH/KH 5/6. I also did a phosphate test and it was 0 also. I don't know > about heavy metals. > Allantoin is one of the ingredients in Jungle's Start Right (I only used > that as an example). In the past I haven't used any additives with my > PWC's. I have only used the dechlor when I was cleaning the artificial > plants with bleach. > > Jimmy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26131	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Source of Fish

My LFS is the 50 Fathoms Fish Store in Metairie, in the Rouse's shopping center, in around the 5500 block of Veterans just west of the intersection with Transcontinental. Phone number 504-888-2626 if you want to call them. Maybe they have an affiliated store on the north shore. If not, they might be able to refer you to someone on your side of the lake. There have to be some good LFS' over there in the Covington/Mandeville area. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Source of Fish If anyone else in this group lives in Louisiana and knows of a good source of fish I would like to know about it. I live in Husser, LA. Husser is located about 35 miles north of Covington/Mandeville. It is area code 70442. I would be willing to travel about 2 hours each way if necessary. I prefer the private Tropical Fish Shop rather than the chains. Jimmy McHaney No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26132	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

Anndrea, Properly conditioned and bagged, your fish should have no problem lasting 24 hours. As has been mentioned, let them fast for two or three days before bagging them. This allows them to process all the food in their gut, so that they are not releasing as much pollution into the water as they would otherwise. There are two kinds of bags. One is the "solid" plastic bag, the one you are probably most familiar with, and there is also a breathable bag. The first does not allow for any gaseous exchange to the atmosphere. All gaseous exchange occurs in the bag, hence the use of oxygen to fill the airspace in these bags. The latter allow gaseous exchange with the atmosphere--the water stays in, the air moves in and out. The breathable bags are not likely to be found in the shops, unless you have a rare shop. You'll need to search them out online, but, in my opinion, they would be the way to go. If you go with the "solid" bags, depending on the size, you can put one or two fish in each and have just enough water to cover the fish when the bag is laying down. If your LFS bags fish with oxygen, you can enlist their help, particularly by offering a few bucks, to fill the bags with oxygen for you. Otherwise, you'll need get a small cylinder of oxygen and do it yourself. Tie the bag tightly to keep the oxygen (and water in) and lay them down in the styro or cooler. Proceed with the rest of the fish in the same manner. If you use the breathable bags, follow the same routine, sans oxygen and tie them tightly enough to retain the water. No need to try and fill them with air or oxygen, and place them into your container. Another method would be to get a styro, and a styro bag from your LFS, place the fish in there, take it back to the LFS, and have them fill it with oxygen for the trip. When traveling, keep the fish I the cab with you to avoid any extremes of temperature, and take them into the motel with you at night. Keep the container closed, as the darkness will limit their movement and thus their respiration, moderating the amount of wastes they will give off (along with the fasting you have already done. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 2:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way??? > We moved our 10 and 55 gallon by Uhaul - 8 hour drive. The local fish store bagged all of our fish for us, put them in a cooler to try and save some heat and we kept 50% of each tank in buckets and drained them. As soon as we got to the new house we set up both tanks and didn't loose one fish! > > Cynthia Sounds like it worked out really well for you. Only issue I have is that I believe it is 24 hours of driving to get from where I am to where I might be going. Might be half one day, stay overnight, half the next if I can't find another driver. Maybe I could leave their tanks all set up and put them in with the half a tank of water for the night, then back into baggies the next morning for the rest of the drive??? I have no idea how long they can be in baggies but that seems like a lot. Maybe take a few days to do it? Stay overnight twice so it is only 8 hour shifts of driving and 8 hour shifts of them being in baggies? anndrea Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26133	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Source of Fish

I don't know of any down in this area but I remember reading a post somewhere about a group starting up in Baton Rouge which is probably just as close to you. I think this is the link... Southeast Louisiana Aquarium Society http://www.selas.us/portal/modules.php?name=Nuke_Map -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Source of Fish Jimmy, Have you looked around to see if there are any local Aquarium societies? Since you are willing to drive a while I bet there is one within driving distance. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Jimmy McHaney <jimmym@... <mailto:jimmym%40dishmail.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 2:56 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Source of Fish If anyone else in this group lives in Louisiana and knows of a good source of fish I would like to know about it. I live in Husser, LA. Husser is located about 35 miles north of Covington/Mandeville. It is area code 70442. I would be willing to travel about 2 hours each way if necessary. I prefer the private Tropical Fish Shop rather than the chains. Jimmy McHaney No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26134	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

Just to add one point. If you are bagging a Betta or other labyrinth fish (Gourami's, etc.), do not add pure O2 to their bags. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way??? Anndrea, Properly conditioned and bagged, your fish should have no problem lasting 24 hours. As has been mentioned, let them fast for two or three days before bagging them. This allows them to process all the food in their gut, so that they are not releasing as much pollution into the water as they would otherwise. There are two kinds of bags. One is the "solid" plastic bag, the one you are probably most familiar with, and there is also a breathable bag. The first does not allow for any gaseous exchange to the atmosphere. All gaseous exchange occurs in the bag, hence the use of oxygen to fill the airspace in these bags. The latter allow gaseous exchange with the atmosphere--the water stays in, the air moves in and out. The breathable bags are not likely to be found in the shops, unless you have a rare shop. You'll need to search them out online, but, in my opinion, they would be the way to go. If you go with the "solid" bags, depending on the size, you can put one or two fish in each and have just enough water to cover the fish when the bag is laying down. If your LFS bags fish with oxygen, you can enlist their help, particularly by offering a few bucks, to fill the bags with oxygen for you. Otherwise, you'll need get a small cylinder of oxygen and do it yourself. Tie the bag tightly to keep the oxygen (and water in) and lay them down in the styro or cooler. Proceed with the rest of the fish in the same manner. If you use the breathable bags, follow the same routine, sans oxygen and tie them tightly enough to retain the water. No need to try and fill them with air or oxygen, and place them into your container. Another method would be to get a styro, and a styro bag from your LFS, place the fish in there, take it back to the LFS, and have them fill it with oxygen for the trip. When traveling, keep the fish I the cab with you to avoid any extremes of temperature, and take them into the motel with you at night. Keep the container closed, as the darkness will limit their movement and thus their respiration, moderating the amount of wastes they will give off (along with the fasting you have already done. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 2:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way??? > We moved our 10 and 55 gallon by Uhaul - 8 hour drive. The local fish store bagged all of our fish for us, put them in a cooler to try and save some heat and we kept 50% of each tank in buckets and drained them. As soon as we got to the new house we set up both tanks and didn't loose one fish! > > Cynthia Sounds like it worked out really well for you. Only issue I have is that I believe it is 24 hours of driving to get from where I am to where I might be going. Might be half one day, stay overnight, half the next if I can't find another driver. Maybe I could leave their tanks all set up and put them in with the half a tank of water for the night, then back into baggies the next morning for the rest of the drive??? I have no idea how long they can be in baggies but that seems like a lot. Maybe take a few days to do it? Stay overnight twice so it is only 8 hour shifts of driving and 8 hour shifts of them being in baggies? anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26135	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way???

Very good information Lenny! Also something to consider. Corydora catfish will dash to the surface for a gulp of air and then dash back to the bottom. I read somewhere that they do process the gulp of air into their bloodstream. Probably for when they are in areas where the water is drying out or there is a lower amount of o2 in the water. I am unclear if pure o2 in the bag will harm them or not. When I do bag corydoras I usually get as much air in the bag as I can without o2 and then do a small bit of o2 from the o2 air tank at the wholesalers. I use the small bit of pure o2 to mainly to make the bag tight for rubberbanding. -Mike Just to add one point. If you are bagging a Betta or other labyrinth fish Gourami's, etc.), do not add pure O2 to their bags. Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 6:10 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way??? Just to add one point. If you are bagging a Betta or other labyrinth fish Gourami's, etc.), do not add pure O2 to their bags. Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On ehalf Of Steve Szabo ent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:53 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way??? Anndrea, Properly conditioned and bagged, your fish should have no problem lasting 24 ours. As has been mentioned, let them fast for two or three days before agging them. This allows them to process all the food in their gut, so that hey are not releasing as much pollution into the water as they would therwise. There are two kinds of bags. One is the "solid" plastic bag, the one you are robably most familiar with, and there is also a breathable bag. The first oes not allow for any gaseous exchange to the atmosphere. All gaseous xchange occurs in the bag, hence the use of oxygen to fill the airspace in hese bags. The latter allow gaseous exchange with the atmosphere--the water tays in, the air moves in and out. The breathable bags are not likely to be ound in the shops, unless you have a rare shop. You'll need to search them ut online, but, in my opinion, they would be the way to go. If you go with the "solid" bags, depending on the size, you can put one or wo fish in each and have just enough water to cover the fish when the bag s laying down. If your LFS bags fish with oxygen, you can enlist their elp, particularly by offering a few bucks, to fill the bags with oxygen for ou. Otherwise, you'll need get a small cylinder of oxygen and do it ourself. Tie the bag tightly to keep the oxygen (and water in) and lay them own in the styro or cooler. Proceed with the rest of the fish in the same anner. If you use the breathable bags, follow the same routine, sans oxygen and tie hem tightly enough to retain the water. No need to try and fill them with ir or oxygen, and place them into your container. Another method would be to get a styro, and a styro bag from your LFS, place he fish in there, take it back to the LFS, and have them fill it with xygen for the trip. When traveling, keep the fish I the cab with you to avoid any extremes of emperature, and take them into the motel with you at night. Keep the ontainer closed, as the darkness will limit their movement and thus their espiration, moderating the amount of wastes they will give off (along with he fasting you have already done. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] n Behalf Of Anndrea ent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 2:23 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ubject: [AquaticLife] Re: Transporting fish a lonnng way??? > We moved our 10 and 55 gallon by Uhaul - 8 hour drive. The local ish store bagged all of our fish for us, put them in a cooler to try and ave some heat and we kept 50% of each tank in buckets and drained them. As oon as we got to the new house we set up both tanks and didn't loose one ish! Cynthia Sounds like it worked out really well for you. Only issue I have is that I believe it is 24 hours of driving to get from here I am to where I might be going. Might be half one day, stay overnight, alf the next if I can't find another driver. Maybe I could leave their tanks all set up and put them in with the half a ank of water for the night, then back into baggies the next morning for the est of the drive??? I have no idea how long they can be in baggies but that seems like a lot. Maybe take a few days to do it? Stay overnight twice so it is only 8 hour hifts of driving and 8 hour shifts of them being in baggies? anndrea o virus found in this outgoing message. hecked by AVG Free Edition. ersion: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 :45 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. ahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26136	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Source of Fish

Thanks Mike, I just jointed the Southeast Louisiana Aquarium Society. I'll pose the question there. Jimmy McHaney ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Source of Fish Jimmy, Have you looked around to see if there are any local Aquarium societies? Since you are willing to drive a while I bet there is one within driving distance. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Jimmy McHaney <jimmym@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 2:56 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Source of Fish If anyone else in this group lives in Louisiana and knows of a good source of fish I would like to know about it. I live in Husser, LA. Husser is located about 35 miles north of Covington/Mandeville. It is area code 70442. I would be willing to travel about 2 hours each way if necessary. I prefer the private Tropical Fish Shop rather than the chains. Jimmy McHaney [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26137	From: ipartyforfun	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Source of Fish

There is a really nice one in Madeville but I do not remember the name of it. (There weren't many to choose from in the phone book.) We were traveling and decided to stop in there (we live in Arkansas) and bought several fish there. Look in the phone book or online for Madeville pet shops. Thats how we found it. Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26138	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2008
Subject: Re: Source of Fish

That's great! I hope you enjoy it. -Mike Thanks Mike, I just jointed the Southeast Louisiana Aquarium Society. I'll pose the question there. Jimmy McHaney -----Original Message----- From: Jimmy McHaney <jimmym@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 6:34 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Source of Fish Thanks Mike, I just jointed the Southeast Louisiana Aquarium Society. I'll pose the question there. Jimmy McHaney ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Source of Fish Jimmy, Have you looked around to see if there are any local Aquarium societies? Since you are willing to drive a while I bet there is one within driving distance. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Jimmy McHaney <jimmym@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 2:56 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Source of Fish If anyone else in this group lives in Louisiana and knows of a good source of fish I would like to know about it. I live in Husser, LA. Husser is located about 35 miles north of Covington/Mandeville. It is area code 70442. I would be willing to travel about 2 hours each way if necessary. I prefer the private Tropical Fish Shop rather than the chains. Jimmy McHaney [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26139	From: ED	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Pics

Well I finally got a few shots of some of the fish. When they are approved, Let me know what you think. My wife and I are arguing about where the B&W Angel is classified. I havn't seen many. Any Ideas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26140	From: ED	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Pics

Duhhh! *smacks forehead* It's In the album Ed's fish 'Sunshine and Gentle Breezes' --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Well I finally got a few shots of some of the fish. When they are > approved, Let me know what you think. My wife and I are arguing about > where the B&W Angel is classified. I havn't seen many. Any Ideas? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26141	From: babsdvs	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Small pet shops

This post isn't a question - exactly - simply observations. Before stocking my tank, I went to almost every pet store in town, checking prices, cleanliness and customer service. I had already decided on my fish. And, I finally found my LFS. Yesterday I stopped at a store at the beaches called Ocean Floor, just browsing, and was appalled by the conditions. For my final fish I wanted angels and they had the most beautiful ones I had ever seen. They were a little larger than I planned to buy, were very expensive, but they had bright yellow heads ( I guess that's what you'd call them) and the bodies were marbled with black and the whitest white. However, they were litterally jammed into a 10g tank, they couldn't stretch out and looked stressed. The two workers there ignored me like I was the invisible woman, their plant tank was filthy. I'm opting to buy from my LSF where the selection is limited, the fish are treated right, the people are knowledgable, helpful and even test my water for free. (A second opinion never hurts.) And the best thing is they have a pony at the front door to greet you. Maybe there's a question in there somewhere. :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26142	From: Melissa	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?

The platies in my tank do just fine with no netting or birthing cage or anything. One of them even seems to get herself pregnant with a new batch just as soon as she pops one out. Several people told me that as long as the fry have several hiding places like caves and live plants that they'll do just fine for the most part. At least some of the fry from each batch will survive that way but probably not all. I'm not particularily interested in saving the fry though, so if thats your interest, maybe someone else can help you out. Oh that reminds me of my question. I seem to have adopted a couple of snails from some plant bulbs. All the information I can find on aquarium snails states that they mutliply like crazy so I proceeded to watch the tank very closely since I discovered them. Well that never seemed to happen. Its been quite a few weeks, maybe a couple of months and I still only see a few (maybe 5). Neither do my plants show signs of being seriously chowed down on and my fish don't seem to be bothered by them. The only evidence left behind from the snails is one of my anacharis plants keeps getting uprooted. Could the baby snails have been eaten by one of my fish. The tank has assorted platies and julli cories. Do either of these fish make a tasty snack of snails? And if thats the case, maybe that would explain why I haven't yet seen a population explosion. Since I sort of like the snails in there, what do ya'll think of fishing out the adult-sized ones if and when I begin to see too many? Melissa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa Robinson" <oo.lisa.oo@...> wrote: > > Hi. I'm fairly new to the Group and this hobby. > > I've found the information obtained from this group > > unbelievably helpful. Thank you all for sharing > > all that you do. > > I do have a question though. I have a pregnant > > Tuxedo Platy. The daddy is a Mickey Mouse Platy > > so I can't wait to see what the babies will look like =) > > Anyhoo, I've tried to get a lot of information about > > pregnant platy's from this group and the past > > few days have been most helpful. But I'm wondering > > if it could hurt her to be in the "mommy-to-be house" > > for too long? Or is there such a thing as "too long"? > > It's one of those boxy, net looking ones. It's also > > hanging from the side of her original tank so she > > never left her original home. I know there is no > > certain number of days for gestation but can someone > > give me a round-a-bout number??? > > Thanks again for everything. > > Lisa > > Alabama >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26143	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: book suggestions?

Would you mind sharing the titles of your favorite aquarium books? I'm also interested in plant books and aquarium design.....I look on-line, but there are so many that I hate to 'waste' $30 on a not very good book..... Thanks! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26144	From: AquaticLife™	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?

"Aquarium Plants, the Practical Guide" by Mr. Pablo Teapot "The Simple Guide To Planted Aquariums" by Terry Ann Barber & Rhonda Wilson "Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants" by Peter Hiscock --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, shari rivenburg <hillfarm@...> wrote: > > Would you mind sharing the titles of your favorite aquarium books? I'm > also interested in plant books and aquarium design.....I look on- line, > but there are so many that I hate to 'waste' $30 on a not very good > book..... > > Thanks! > Shari >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26145	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: book suggestions?

I have over 300 books from guppy to very specialize like fish endocrinal system; tell me what kind of book you look for But just to stay on the plants book: The one of Barber and Wilson doesn’t worth the paper. Hiscook is not bad Planted Aquariums: Creation And Maintenance by Christal Kasselmann is a very good one, ( it’s a book about creation and general maintenance of planted tank, not a reference on the plants but she have the companion one Aquarium Plants ( this one go really in deep about the plants, the origin their culture etc. ) -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de AquaticLife™ Envoyé : February 27, 2008 6:53 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : [AquaticLife] Re: book suggestions? "Aquarium Plants, the Practical Guide" by Mr. Pablo Teapot "The Simple Guide To Planted Aquariums" by Terry Ann Barber & Rhonda Wilson "Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants" by Peter Hiscock --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, shari rivenburg <hillfarm@...> wrote: > > Would you mind sharing the titles of your favorite aquarium books? I'm > also interested in plant books and aquarium design.....I look on- line, > but there are so many that I hate to 'waste' $30 on a not very good > book..... > > Thanks! > Shari > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26146	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?

I checked every book out of the library first. Lots of info and you can see if you want to buy one without spending any $$. The ones I bought were very specific to African Cichlids, however. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] book suggestions? Would you mind sharing the titles of your favorite aquarium books? I'm also interested in plant books and aquarium design.....I look on-line, but there are so many that I hate to 'waste' $30 on a not very good book..... Thanks! Shari [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?

Snails are opportunistic breeders based on available food, so if you don't have a lot of excess food, they will not multiply as much. They are actually a natural part of aquatic ecosystems and will help with keeping things a little cleaner. If you do ever start getting lots of them, you'll know that you are overfeeding your fish or not cleaning your gravel well enough, etc., and you can then remove the larger ones manually or create a snail trap depending on the numbers. I have them in all of my tanks and I don't mind them at all. Others seem to hate snails. I only hate them if someone tries to serve them as part of a meal. EWWWWW!!! Now raw oysters and/or boiled crawfish (sucking the head and pinching the tail) MMMMMMMMMMM!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pregnant Platy ? The platies in my tank do just fine with no netting or birthing cage or anything. One of them even seems to get herself pregnant with a new batch just as soon as she pops one out. Several people told me that as long as the fry have several hiding places like caves and live plants that they'll do just fine for the most part. At least some of the fry from each batch will survive that way but probably not all. I'm not particularily interested in saving the fry though, so if thats your interest, maybe someone else can help you out. Oh that reminds me of my question. I seem to have adopted a couple of snails from some plant bulbs. All the information I can find on aquarium snails states that they mutliply like crazy so I proceeded to watch the tank very closely since I discovered them. Well that never seemed to happen. Its been quite a few weeks, maybe a couple of months and I still only see a few (maybe 5). Neither do my plants show signs of being seriously chowed down on and my fish don't seem to be bothered by them. The only evidence left behind from the snails is one of my anacharis plants keeps getting uprooted. Could the baby snails have been eaten by one of my fish. The tank has assorted platies and julli cories. Do either of these fish make a tasty snack of snails? And if thats the case, maybe that would explain why I haven't yet seen a population explosion. Since I sort of like the snails in there, what do ya'll think of fishing out the adult-sized ones if and when I begin to see too many? Melissa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lisa Robinson" <oo.lisa.oo@...> wrote: > > Hi. I'm fairly new to the Group and this hobby. > > I've found the information obtained from this group > > unbelievably helpful. Thank you all for sharing > > all that you do. > > I do have a question though. I have a pregnant > > Tuxedo Platy. The daddy is a Mickey Mouse Platy > > so I can't wait to see what the babies will look like =) > > Anyhoo, I've tried to get a lot of information about > > pregnant platy's from this group and the past > > few days have been most helpful. But I'm wondering > > if it could hurt her to be in the "mommy-to-be house" > > for too long? Or is there such a thing as "too long"? > > It's one of those boxy, net looking ones. It's also > > hanging from the side of her original tank so she > > never left her original home. I know there is no > > certain number of days for gestation but can someone > > give me a round-a-bout number??? > > Thanks again for everything. > > Lisa > > Alabama > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1300 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 7:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26148	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Small pet shops

Wow--same thing, different location! It's getting harder and harder to find a good small LFS--what I would give for a store like the one I used to work for many moons ago!!! I DID have a strictly No Chain store policy, but to be 100% honest-- I've gotten better fish and better service at some suprising places where I SWORE I'd never buy because it's not a mom-and-pops. I think the bottom line is that, although I prefer supporting the little guy, when it comes to quality/health and selection--the small stores vary more than the large chains do...and, the most important thing is who actually works there. Funny enough, recently, an older lady at WAL-MART--yes Wally World-- really knew her stuff. She passed the test that everyone else has failed ; ) And...that particular walmart has decent fish and plants! Sounds too good to be true, but I'm sure it's because of the lady that works there and the care she gives the critters. Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> wrote: > > This post isn't a question - exactly - simply observations. Before > stocking my tank, I went to almost every pet store in town, checking > prices, cleanliness and customer service. I had already decided on my > fish. And, I finally found my LFS. Yesterday I stopped at a store at > the beaches called Ocean Floor, just browsing, and was appalled by the > conditions. For my final fish I wanted angels and they had the most > beautiful ones I had ever seen. They were a little larger than I > planned to buy, were very expensive, but they had bright yellow heads ( > I guess that's what you'd call them) and the bodies were marbled with > black and the whitest white. However, they were litterally jammed into > a 10g tank, they couldn't stretch out and looked stressed. The two > workers there ignored me like I was the invisible woman, their plant > tank was filthy. I'm opting to buy from my LSF where the selection is > limited, the fish are treated right, the people are knowledgable, > helpful and even test my water for free. (A second opinion never > hurts.) And the best thing is they have a pony at the front door to > greet you. Maybe there's a question in there somewhere. :) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26149	From: Melissa	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?

yummm. I love oysters and crawfish. I can't wait for the season to get in full swing! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Snails are opportunistic breeders based on available food, so if you don't > have a lot of excess food, they will not multiply as much. They are > actually a natural part of aquatic ecosystems and will help with keeping > things a little cleaner. If you do ever start getting lots of them, you'll > know that you are overfeeding your fish or not cleaning your gravel well > enough, etc., and you can then remove the larger ones manually or create a > snail trap depending on the numbers. I have them in all of my tanks and I > don't mind them at all. Others seem to hate snails. I only hate them if > someone tries to serve them as part of a meal. EWWWWW!!! Now raw oysters > and/or boiled crawfish (sucking the head and pinching the tail) > MMMMMMMMMMM!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Melissa > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pregnant Platy ? > > The platies in my tank do just fine with no netting or birthing cage or > anything. One of them even seems to get herself pregnant with a new batch > just as soon as she pops one out. Several people told me that as long as the > fry have several hiding places like caves and live plants that they'll do > just fine for the most part. At least some of the fry from each batch will > survive that way but probably not all. I'm not particularily interested in > saving the fry though, so if thats your interest, maybe someone else can > help you out. > > Oh that reminds me of my question. I seem to have adopted a couple of snails > from some plant bulbs. All the information I can find on aquarium snails > states that they mutliply like crazy so I proceeded to watch the tank very > closely since I discovered them. Well that never seemed to happen. Its been > quite a few weeks, maybe a couple of months and I still only see a few > (maybe 5). Neither do my plants show signs of being seriously chowed down on > and my fish don't seem to be bothered by them. The only evidence left behind > from the snails is one of my anacharis plants keeps getting uprooted. Could > the baby snails have been eaten by one of my fish. The tank has assorted > platies and julli cories. Do either of these fish make a tasty snack of > snails? And if thats the case, maybe that would explain why I haven't yet > seen a population explosion. Since I sort of like the snails in there, what > do ya'll think of fishing out the adult-sized ones if and when I begin to > see too many? Melissa > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lisa Robinson" <oo.lisa.oo@> > wrote: > > > > Hi. I'm fairly new to the Group and this hobby. > > > > I've found the information obtained from this group > > > > unbelievably helpful. Thank you all for sharing > > > > all that you do. > > > > I do have a question though. I have a pregnant > > > > Tuxedo Platy. The daddy is a Mickey Mouse Platy > > > > so I can't wait to see what the babies will look like =) > > > > Anyhoo, I've tried to get a lot of information about > > > > pregnant platy's from this group and the past > > > > few days have been most helpful. But I'm wondering > > > > if it could hurt her to be in the "mommy-to-be house" > > > > for too long? Or is there such a thing as "too long"? > > > > It's one of those boxy, net looking ones. It's also > > > > hanging from the side of her original tank so she > > > > never left her original home. I know there is no > > > > certain number of days for gestation but can someone > > > > give me a round-a-bout number??? > > > > Thanks again for everything. > > > > Lisa > > > > Alabama > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1300 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 > 7:50 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26150	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?

Hey there neighbor! I just peeked at your Yahoo Profile and I see you're from New Orleans too. I'm over in Metairie. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 8:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pregnant Platy ? yummm. I love oysters and crawfish. I can't wait for the season to get in full swing! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Snails are opportunistic breeders based on available food, so if you don't > have a lot of excess food, they will not multiply as much. They are > actually a natural part of aquatic ecosystems and will help with keeping > things a little cleaner. If you do ever start getting lots of them, you'll > know that you are overfeeding your fish or not cleaning your gravel well > enough, etc., and you can then remove the larger ones manually or create a > snail trap depending on the numbers. I have them in all of my tanks and I > don't mind them at all. Others seem to hate snails. I only hate them if > someone tries to serve them as part of a meal. EWWWWW!!! Now raw oysters > and/or boiled crawfish (sucking the head and pinching the tail) > MMMMMMMMMMM!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Melissa > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pregnant Platy ? > > The platies in my tank do just fine with no netting or birthing cage or > anything. One of them even seems to get herself pregnant with a new batch > just as soon as she pops one out. Several people told me that as long as the > fry have several hiding places like caves and live plants that they'll do > just fine for the most part. At least some of the fry from each batch will > survive that way but probably not all. I'm not particularily interested in > saving the fry though, so if thats your interest, maybe someone else can > help you out. > > Oh that reminds me of my question. I seem to have adopted a couple of snails > from some plant bulbs. All the information I can find on aquarium snails > states that they mutliply like crazy so I proceeded to watch the tank very > closely since I discovered them. Well that never seemed to happen. Its been > quite a few weeks, maybe a couple of months and I still only see a few > (maybe 5). Neither do my plants show signs of being seriously chowed down on > and my fish don't seem to be bothered by them. The only evidence left behind > from the snails is one of my anacharis plants keeps getting uprooted. Could > the baby snails have been eaten by one of my fish. The tank has assorted > platies and julli cories. Do either of these fish make a tasty snack of > snails? And if thats the case, maybe that would explain why I haven't yet > seen a population explosion. Since I sort of like the snails in there, what > do ya'll think of fishing out the adult-sized ones if and when I begin to > see too many? Melissa > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lisa Robinson" <oo.lisa.oo@> > wrote: > > > > Hi. I'm fairly new to the Group and this hobby. > > > > I've found the information obtained from this group > > > > unbelievably helpful. Thank you all for sharing > > > > all that you do. > > > > I do have a question though. I have a pregnant > > > > Tuxedo Platy. The daddy is a Mickey Mouse Platy > > > > so I can't wait to see what the babies will look like =) > > > > Anyhoo, I've tried to get a lot of information about > > > > pregnant platy's from this group and the past > > > > few days have been most helpful. But I'm wondering > > > > if it could hurt her to be in the "mommy-to-be house" > > > > for too long? Or is there such a thing as "too long"? > > > > It's one of those boxy, net looking ones. It's also > > > > hanging from the side of her original tank so she > > > > never left her original home. I know there is no > > > > certain number of days for gestation but can someone > > > > give me a round-a-bout number??? > > > > Thanks again for everything. > > > > Lisa > > > > Alabama > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1300 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 > 7:50 PM > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1300 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 7:50 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1300 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 7:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26151	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?

Pick up a copy of the Baensch Aquarium Atlas., Volume 1. You simply cannot go wrong with this book (or any in the series). It has a section o setting up a tank. A section on plants, but most of the book is fish, mostly two per page, with descriptions of the fish, water conditions it prefers, feeding and breeding habits, if known. The descriptions are fairly accurate. I believe there are 5 volumes in the freshwater series, two in the marine series and a couple of cichlid atlases and, now, a catfish atlas, which undoubtedly will have more volumes forthcoming. Another book, if you haunt used bookstores would be the Innes book, Exotic Aquarium Fishes: A work of general reference, 19th Edition, Revised. This is the Metaframe edition. Don't get any later than that, they are not worth it (after Herbie started to publish them), but earlier ones are good too. Some of the scientific names are out of date, but the info is solid. If you want to know more than anyone about water chemistry, particularly the biological (nitrogen) cycle, and have had at least high school chemistry, try Stephen Spotte's Fish and Invertebrate Culture, second edition. Again, you'll need to haunt the used bookstores to find it, but it will give you an understanding of water chemistry that most aquarists lack. Don't let the marine slant of the book frighten you off, as most, if not all of what is discussed in the book applies to freshwater. When you look a the text in the store, do not be dismayed. It is a tough book to get through, but you will be better off for doing so. Your interest in other books I could mention would depend upon what you are interested in pursuing. Livebearers?, Cichlids? Killifish? Anabantids? Ponds, Brackish water tanks? And so on. If you need help locating either of these last two, contact me off list and I'll give the contacts for a couple of reputable dealers. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] book suggestions? Would you mind sharing the titles of your favorite aquarium books? I'm also interested in plant books and aquarium design.....I look on-line, but there are so many that I hate to 'waste' $30 on a not very good book..... Thanks! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26152	From: bmp	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far

This has not happened to me before so I had to put on some magnifying glasses to be sure of what I was seeing. In my livebearer tank I mostly have guppies. 5 of 6 adult ones which I raised from free fry have developed fungus. It looks like a small fuzzy light-colored patch on each fish's head. They are intent on swimming against the current, facing the filter outflow as if they are running the rapids. That is what first caught my attention this afternoon. Then I noticed one of the males glancing/rubbing its sides off of a pebble. That's when I got worried. So far, I've prepared a 1 gallon salt bath for them (4 tsp. aquarium salt dissolved in 1 gallon water from their tank, in a fish-only bucket). I put the affected ones in there for 3 minutes this afternoon (as soon as I realized what was going on and had consulted all my books) and then again about 5 hours later, before the lights went out for the night. I should be able to 'dip' them twice a day as long as I need to. However, I'm aware and worried that the other fish in the tank could likely be affected by this fungus too so I wonder when I should consider treating the whole tank? And how would I best go about this? The tank: 37 gallon (24" long x 18" wide) tank, planted, with 9 adult guppies, 1 adult (virgin) platy, about 6 1-week-old guppy fry, 3 'teenage' fry and new babies on the way. There are also 6 cory catfish and 3-4 otos in the tank. I considered isolating the sick ones in my 10 gallon but it is currently housing a small group of recently-purchased tetras which I'd rather not rush into moving to their eventual home. I have no suspicions that I suddenly have problems with ammonia, nitrite or nitrate as this is a well-established tank. However, if you wish I can test the water. In trying to figure out how this happened, all I can imagine is that with the last water change I did (10 days ago, about 25% as usual) I ended up disturbing the plain gravel substrate more than usual. I had an overgrown jungle of water wisteria that I was pruning. I ended up needing to uproot some older parts of it in order to get it back under control. As a result, a whole lot of mulm & dissolved Flourish tabs were stirred up from deep within the gravel. I had only a full-length bubble wand going on while I worked then I turned the HOB filter back on while it settled. The next day, it was crystal clear again so I took out the filter pad (it's an Emperor filter) and swished it out in dechlorinated water then put it back in. I have not had any ich, the water temperature going in was consistent with the water already in the tank (80 degrees) so I was very surprised to see any problems like this. Am I on the right track? Would it help to raise the water temperature? The plant lights I have keep it near 80 while they are on. A heater keeps it steady at night. I wish I could keep the daytime temperature a little cooler during the day. Sorry if this is too ordinary a problem but it is new to me and I'm hoping for the best outcome. I have some beautiful fish in there. Thanks and good evening, Beverly in Texas Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far

It's always a good idea to do water quality testing whenever you have an issue pop up just to eliminate it as a source of the problem. Since your tank is planted, it's probably not a water quality issue but there's always a chance one or more of your fish died and are decomposing in the tank which would create more nitrogenous waste than your plants and bio-filtration can handle. The decomposing fish could also allow the fungus to thrive. I would keep doing what you are doing by giving the affected fish a salt water dip since you can't treat the entire tank with salt since the catfish do not tolerate a high salinity level compared to your livebearers. The fuzz typically isn't a parasite where the flashing (rubbing on things) could be parasitic. What meds do you have on hand? If you have Pimafix on hand, you could use it for treating the entire affected tank as an antifungal treatment that will not affect your N-bacteria or plants. Remember to remove you carbon when treating with meds and it's a good idea to do a PWC prior to starting treatment and many meds recommend doing PWC's daily during treatment but follow the directions on the bottle. My favorite site for diagnosing and treating diseases (Pandora's Disease page at Fishpalace.org) isn't working any longer the last few times I checked it but you can see a copy of the original page by viewing the Web Archived page from the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html Take a look at the descriptions and pictures and make sure your issue is the same and you can usually rely on this page for a good treatment plan. IMO, it's the best overall webpage on fish disease diagnosis and treatment. It's a shame the original site went under but thank goodness for the Wayback Machine! If you ever find that a site you liked has disappeared, you can use the Wayback Machine to find snapshots of the original page. http://www.archive.org/web/web.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bmp Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 10:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far This has not happened to me before so I had to put on some magnifying glasses to be sure of what I was seeing. In my livebearer tank I mostly have guppies. 5 of 6 adult ones which I raised from free fry have developed fungus. It looks like a small fuzzy light-colored patch on each fish's head. They are intent on swimming against the current, facing the filter outflow as if they are running the rapids. That is what first caught my attention this afternoon. Then I noticed one of the males glancing/rubbing its sides off of a pebble. That's when I got worried. So far, I've prepared a 1 gallon salt bath for them (4 tsp. aquarium salt dissolved in 1 gallon water from their tank, in a fish-only bucket). I put the affected ones in there for 3 minutes this afternoon (as soon as I realized what was going on and had consulted all my books) and then again about 5 hours later, before the lights went out for the night. I should be able to 'dip' them twice a day as long as I need to. However, I'm aware and worried that the other fish in the tank could likely be affected by this fungus too so I wonder when I should consider treating the whole tank? And how would I best go about this? The tank: 37 gallon (24" long x 18" wide) tank, planted, with 9 adult guppies, 1 adult (virgin) platy, about 6 1-week-old guppy fry, 3 'teenage' fry and new babies on the way. There are also 6 cory catfish and 3-4 otos in the tank. I considered isolating the sick ones in my 10 gallon but it is currently housing a small group of recently-purchased tetras which I'd rather not rush into moving to their eventual home. I have no suspicions that I suddenly have problems with ammonia, nitrite or nitrate as this is a well-established tank. However, if you wish I can test the water. In trying to figure out how this happened, all I can imagine is that with the last water change I did (10 days ago, about 25% as usual) I ended up disturbing the plain gravel substrate more than usual. I had an overgrown jungle of water wisteria that I was pruning. I ended up needing to uproot some older parts of it in order to get it back under control. As a result, a whole lot of mulm & dissolved Flourish tabs were stirred up from deep within the gravel. I had only a full-length bubble wand going on while I worked then I turned the HOB filter back on while it settled. The next day, it was crystal clear again so I took out the filter pad (it's an Emperor filter) and swished it out in dechlorinated water then put it back in. I have not had any ich, the water temperature going in was consistent with the water already in the tank (80 degrees) so I was very surprised to see any problems like this. Am I on the right track? Would it help to raise the water temperature? The plant lights I have keep it near 80 while they are on. A heater keeps it steady at night. I wish I could keep the daytime temperature a little cooler during the day. Sorry if this is too ordinary a problem but it is new to me and I'm hoping for the best outcome. I have some beautiful fish in there. Thanks and good evening, Beverly in Texas Peace, please! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1300 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 7:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26154	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Pics

I love the red betta pic. I have a similar one in my office, but yours is prettier! I love the black outlining on his fins. We were all singing, "REd Red wine..." so maybe he could be called "wino" : ) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Well I finally got a few shots of some of the fish. When they are > approved, Let me know what you think. My wife and I are arguing about > where the B&W Angel is classified. I havn't seen many. Any Ideas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26155	From: Melissa	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?

Haha. I figured as much when you mentioned crawfish. It's not a food you'd find just anywhere. I wonder how many other people on here are our neighbors. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hey there neighbor! I just peeked at your Yahoo Profile and I see you're > from New Orleans too. I'm over in Metairie. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Melissa > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 8:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pregnant Platy ? > > yummm. I love oysters and crawfish. I can't wait for the season to get in > full swing! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Snails are opportunistic breeders based on available food, so if > you don't > > have a lot of excess food, they will not multiply as much. They are > > actually a natural part of aquatic ecosystems and will help with > keeping > > things a little cleaner. If you do ever start getting lots of > them, you'll > > know that you are overfeeding your fish or not cleaning your gravel > well > > enough, etc., and you can then remove the larger ones manually or > create a > > snail trap depending on the numbers. I have them in all of my > tanks and I > > don't mind them at all. Others seem to hate snails. I only hate > them if > > someone tries to serve them as part of a meal. EWWWWW!!! Now raw > oysters > > and/or boiled crawfish (sucking the head and pinching the tail) > > MMMMMMMMMMM!!! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Melissa > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:57 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pregnant Platy ? > > > > The platies in my tank do just fine with no netting or birthing > cage or > > anything. One of them even seems to get herself pregnant with a new > batch > > just as soon as she pops one out. Several people told me that as > long as the > > fry have several hiding places like caves and live plants that > they'll do > > just fine for the most part. At least some of the fry from each > batch will > > survive that way but probably not all. I'm not particularily > interested in > > saving the fry though, so if thats your interest, maybe someone > else can > > help you out. > > > > Oh that reminds me of my question. I seem to have adopted a couple > of snails > > from some plant bulbs. All the information I can find on aquarium > snails > > states that they mutliply like crazy so I proceeded to watch the > tank very > > closely since I discovered them. Well that never seemed to happen. > Its been > > quite a few weeks, maybe a couple of months and I still only see a > few > > (maybe 5). Neither do my plants show signs of being seriously > chowed down on > > and my fish don't seem to be bothered by them. The only evidence > left behind > > from the snails is one of my anacharis plants keeps getting > uprooted. Could > > the baby snails have been eaten by one of my fish. The tank has > assorted > > platies and julli cories. Do either of these fish make a tasty > snack of > > snails? And if thats the case, maybe that would explain why I > haven't yet > > seen a population explosion. Since I sort of like the snails in > there, what > > do ya'll think of fishing out the adult-sized ones if and when I > begin to > > see too many? Melissa > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lisa Robinson" <oo.lisa.oo@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi. I'm fairly new to the Group and this hobby. > > > > > > I've found the information obtained from this group > > > > > > unbelievably helpful. Thank you all for sharing > > > > > > all that you do. > > > > > > I do have a question though. I have a pregnant > > > > > > Tuxedo Platy. The daddy is a Mickey Mouse Platy > > > > > > so I can't wait to see what the babies will look like =) > > > > > > Anyhoo, I've tried to get a lot of information about > > > > > > pregnant platy's from this group and the past > > > > > > few days have been most helpful. But I'm wondering > > > > > > if it could hurt her to be in the "mommy-to-be house" > > > > > > for too long? Or is there such a thing as "too long"? > > > > > > It's one of those boxy, net looking ones. It's also > > > > > > hanging from the side of her original tank so she > > > > > > never left her original home. I know there is no > > > > > > certain number of days for gestation but can someone > > > > > > give me a round-a-bout number??? > > > > > > Thanks again for everything. > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > Alabama > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1300 - Release Date: > 2/26/2008 > > 7:50 PM > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1300 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 > 7:50 PM > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1300 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 > 7:50 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26156	From: ED	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Pics

LOL maybe. He also has little bits of blue between the webs of his tail fins. Very hard to see even 'LIVE'. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "abarker3wvuedu" <amandabstewart@...> wrote: > > I love the red betta pic. I have a similar one in my office, but yours > is prettier! I love the black outlining on his fins. We were all > singing, "REd Red wine..." so maybe he could be called "wino" : ) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > Well I finally got a few shots of some of the fish. When they are > > approved, Let me know what you think. My wife and I are arguing about > > where the B&W Angel is classified. I havn't seen many. Any Ideas? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26157	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Small pet shops

Amanda: What questions do you typically ask? And of course, knowing the correct answer before hand also helps!! So, as a n00b, what types of questions should I be asking? As for the Mom and Pop stores, I also am into model railroading, and while I know that there are things that I can find online or at larger stores, cheaper, the smaller mom and pop stores typically give me the best quality service and repeat customers also reap some longer term benefits. I agree though, if the store is less than quality and the customer service stinks, then I'd move on too. Rob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26158	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far

Hello Beverly, While its always best to have some idea of your water parameters as part of keeping up with your general maintenance, you should always endeavor to test for these parameters when having such fish related problems as you're having, for your own sense of where the problem may be originating from. While the general testing of your water parameters will usually include at least pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, their excellent levels (if you might so have them), may not necessarily rule out less than desireable water quality since there are other elements not often tested for. Anyhow, yes, we would appreciate knowing what those readings were of which you tested for. Upon reading your "salt bath" procedure for trying to eliminate this fungus, first I'd like to mention that what you're accomplishing is called a salt DIP (just as in what you're describing in your actions). A salt bath consists of maintaing the fish in a salt solution for a more extended period of time, often several days. I mention this as the 4 teaspoons per gallon of salt you're using is just too weak to use as a 3 minute dip; it is doing virtually nothing to kill the fungus. Solutions much stronger than this are used as longer term baths. Guppies can (as also can Mollies) tolerate up to 8 teaspoons of salt per gallon, longer term, provided its administered progressively -- adding 2 tsp. per gallon per day. After several days, or when the disease looks better, the salt can (should) be removed slowly, again over a period of several days, with PWC's. Since you have Cory's, you can not add anywhere's near this amount of salt, so a "salt bath" is out of the question. Often, for longer term salt baths, a 0.3% salt solution is sufficient to eradicate mant pathogens; this is equivilent to 2.4 teaspoons salt per gallon. Since the salt "dips" you've been doing may be of benefit to the fish, I'd recommend your continuing them, but with keeping in mind how much salt Guppies can tolerate, you should greatly increase the amount of salt you're using to have any effect on the fungus. Short duration salt DIPS are generally recommended to use up to a 3% salt solution (10 x the amount used for a salt bath) for 30 seconds or so, but this amount also goes along proportionately with the size of the fish (which dictates how strong the organism is). This would be equivilent to 24 tsp. per gallon, but since Guppies are far from being one of our larger aquariujm fish, I'd recommend going with the amount they're safe with long term (8 tsp per gallon) for the 3 minute duration you're using. As with all salt dips, the fish should be closely observed for any signs of weakness (rolling over) during the bath, to be ready to pull them out of it when (or before) any such signs are shown. Your thoughts on how this disease may have started indicates a lot, particularly the description of the mulm, etc., that was stirred up during some replantings. For best prosperity of the fish, your gravel should contain as little as possible of this mulm and fish waste and should be periodically vacuumed out of the gravel, doing half the tank at a time, with your normal weekly partial water changes. The areas immediately surrounding any of your plants may be left so as not to remove your Flourish tabs, but even these areas are best kept "shallow-clean" without going too deep (or without disturbing the plants, of course). This mulm and fish waste is a source of organic phosphates, which when suddenly released into the water column (or when allowed to more permanently affect the water quality) can have an adverse effect on the fish, stressing them to the point where they'll be subjected to such diseases as they're now aflicted with. You need to do a better job with your maintenance, cleaning (vacuuming) half the gravel each week, then the other half on the following week; this, so as not to remove all you substrate nitrifying bacteria. As for treating, if you have success with the Pimafix which was recommended, I'd go along with that also although, while I highly regard Aquarium Pharmaceutical's (manufacturer of this) products, I've had only mixed/limited results with their "natural" offerings such as Melafix. It will preserve your nitrifying bacteria though. My recommendation, if you care to follow it, is to use a Nitrofurazone compound (nitrofurazone, furazolidone & potassium dichromate) medication against this Saprolegnia-type of fungus (incidentally, these types of fungi may also spread into the gills if allowed to progress). This may well affect your nitrifying bacteria, however, although it should clear up the fungus. Again, with keeping the Cory's in mind, do not use any medication containing dye such as Aquarium Pharmaceutical's Furan II, Liquid Fungus Clear or Wardley's Fungus Ade, but instead use a product like Jungle Lab's Fungus Eliminator or Fungus Clear Tank Buddies. Treating the whole tank would be judicious, upon first cleaning the gravel. A token amount (1 Tspn per 5 gallons) of salt may be used during treatment without affecting your Cory's. Keep us advised if the "flashing" against the pebbles continues, as that may indicate something more serious, such as an external parasite, or possibly a less-serious (but still to be concerned with) bacterial infection, in which case the token salt addition may help start to clear this up (with the medications doing the rest). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > This has not happened to me before so I had to put on > some magnifying glasses to be sure of what I was > seeing. In my livebearer tank I mostly have guppies. 5 > of 6 adult ones which I raised from free fry have > developed fungus. It looks like a small fuzzy > light-colored patch on each fish's head. They are > intent on swimming against the current, facing the > filter outflow as if they are running the rapids. That > is what first caught my attention this afternoon. Then > I noticed one of the males glancing/rubbing its sides > off of a pebble. That's when I got worried. > > So far, I've prepared a 1 gallon salt bath for them (4 > tsp. aquarium salt dissolved in 1 gallon water from > their tank, in a fish-only bucket). I put the affected > ones in there for 3 minutes this afternoon (as soon as > I realized what was going on and had consulted all my > books) and then again about 5 hours later, before the > lights went out for the night. I should be able to > 'dip' them twice a day as long as I need to. However, > I'm aware and worried that the other fish in the tank > could likely be affected by this fungus too so I > wonder when I should consider treating the whole tank? > And how would I best go about this? > > The tank: 37 gallon (24" long x 18" wide) tank, > planted, with 9 adult guppies, 1 adult (virgin) platy, > about 6 1-week-old guppy fry, 3 'teenage' fry and new > babies on the way. There are also 6 cory catfish and > 3-4 otos in the tank. I considered isolating the sick > ones in my 10 gallon but it is currently housing a > small group of recently-purchased tetras which I'd > rather not rush into moving to their eventual home. I > have no suspicions that I suddenly have problems with > ammonia, nitrite or nitrate as this is a > well-established tank. However, if you wish I can test > the water. > > In trying to figure out how this happened, all I can > imagine is that with the last water change I did (10 > days ago, about 25% as usual) I ended up disturbing > the plain gravel substrate more than usual. I had an > overgrown jungle of water wisteria that I was pruning. > I ended up needing to uproot some older parts of it in > order to get it back under control. As a result, a > whole lot of mulm & dissolved Flourish tabs were > stirred up from deep within the gravel. I had only a > full-length bubble wand going on while I worked then I > turned the HOB filter back on while it settled. The > next day, it was crystal clear again so I took out the > filter pad (it's an Emperor filter) and swished it out > in dechlorinated water then put it back in. I have not > had any ich, the water temperature going in was > consistent with the water already in the tank (80 > degrees) so I was very surprised to see any problems > like this. > > Am I on the right track? Would it help to raise the > water temperature? The plant lights I have keep it > near 80 while they are on. A heater keeps it steady at > night. I wish I could keep the daytime temperature a > little cooler during the day. > > Sorry if this is too ordinary a problem but it is new > to me and I'm hoping for the best outcome. I have some > beautiful fish in there. > > Thanks and good evening, > Beverly in Texas > > > Peace, please! > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26159	From: joe t	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?

There is a fantastic book I have in my personal library that I bought years ago. The Natural Aquarium World by Takashi Amano Look for it in your library first. Don't know what it would cost now, but it was expensive when I first bought it. Dealing with plants and design this a great book on how to make a beautiful aquarium. You can get some great ideas on how to make a real show layout. Except for the fish you'll see in the pictures, there's nothing about the care of fish, though. joe t --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26160	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?

In a message dated 2/27/2008 6:43:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, hillfarm@... writes: Shari My absolute favorite library book (I've renewed it once already) is called Setting Up a Tropical Aquarium by Stuart Thraves. It has amazing phtos - especially of the many plants and materials used to design an aquarium, but also of fish as well. I continually refer to it and love it so much that I will either buy a copy or pay off the library. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26161	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: UV Sterilizer

Last week I installed a 25W Gamma UV Sterilizer in my 90 g tank. I was amazed at how quickly the water cleared up. I hadn't realized that it was actually as unclear as it was. There is no longer a film on top of the water. As a matter of fact I was concerned that it was killing some of the beneficial bacteria in the water. I have done several test on the water and the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH have not changed since I installed it. Jimmy McHaney [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26162	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: UV Sterilizer

I've been thinking about getting a UV unit too. How do you mount it? I wonder if it's possible to mount it inline with the outflow from my cannister filter.. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Jimmy McHaney <jimmym@...> wrote: > > > > > Last week I installed a 25W Gamma UV Sterilizer in my 90 g tank. I was > amazed at how quickly the water cleared up. I hadn't realized that it was > actually as unclear as it was. There is no longer a film on top of the > water. As a matter of fact I was concerned that it was killing some of the > beneficial bacteria in the water. I have done several test on the water and > the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH have not changed since I installed it. > > Jimmy McHaney > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26163	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: UV Sterilizer

The one I got can be mounted either inline with your canister filter or hang-on back of tank. I chose to hang-on-back of tank and I power it with a Maxi-Jet powerhead/pump Model 1200. This gives a flow rate slow enough to kill both algae and protozoa and bacteria. The tube is 26 in so one pass kills a lot. I may later install it inline with my Fluval canister filter. The sterilizer comes with the fittings for either 1/2 in or 3/4 in tubing. The powerhead also has a sponge filter on it that should provide more bio media. Jimmy McHaney ----- Original Message ----- From: Poul Wehner To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] UV Sterilizer I've been thinking about getting a UV unit too. How do you mount it? I wonder if it's possible to mount it inline with the outflow from my cannister filter.. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Jimmy McHaney <jimmym@...> wrote: > > > > > Last week I installed a 25W Gamma UV Sterilizer in my 90 g tank. I was > amazed at how quickly the water cleared up. I hadn't realized that it was > actually as unclear as it was. There is no longer a film on top of the > water. As a matter of fact I was concerned that it was killing some of the > beneficial bacteria in the water. I have done several test on the water and > the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH have not changed since I installed it. > > Jimmy McHaney > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26164	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy ?

I think it was this group where I directed someone from the north shore to an aquarium society in Baton Rouge recently so there's at least three of us. There should be more... after all, we were the largest aquarium... or maybe it would be pond... in the world for a couple of weeks back in 2005. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pregnant Platy ? Haha. I figured as much when you mentioned crawfish. It's not a food you'd find just anywhere. I wonder how many other people on here are our neighbors. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hey there neighbor! I just peeked at your Yahoo Profile and I see you're > from New Orleans too. I'm over in Metairie. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Melissa > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 8:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pregnant Platy ? > > yummm. I love oysters and crawfish. I can't wait for the season to get in > full swing! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Snails are opportunistic breeders based on available food, so if > you don't > > have a lot of excess food, they will not multiply as much. They are > > actually a natural part of aquatic ecosystems and will help with > keeping > > things a little cleaner. If you do ever start getting lots of > them, you'll > > know that you are overfeeding your fish or not cleaning your gravel > well > > enough, etc., and you can then remove the larger ones manually or > create a > > snail trap depending on the numbers. I have them in all of my > tanks and I > > don't mind them at all. Others seem to hate snails. I only hate > them if > > someone tries to serve them as part of a meal. EWWWWW!!! Now raw > oysters > > and/or boiled crawfish (sucking the head and pinching the tail) > > MMMMMMMMMMM!!! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Melissa > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:57 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pregnant Platy ? > > > > The platies in my tank do just fine with no netting or birthing > cage or > > anything. One of them even seems to get herself pregnant with a new > batch > > just as soon as she pops one out. Several people told me that as > long as the > > fry have several hiding places like caves and live plants that > they'll do > > just fine for the most part. At least some of the fry from each > batch will > > survive that way but probably not all. I'm not particularily > interested in > > saving the fry though, so if thats your interest, maybe someone > else can > > help you out. > > > > Oh that reminds me of my question. I seem to have adopted a couple > of snails > > from some plant bulbs. All the information I can find on aquarium > snails > > states that they mutliply like crazy so I proceeded to watch the > tank very > > closely since I discovered them. Well that never seemed to happen. > Its been > > quite a few weeks, maybe a couple of months and I still only see a > few > > (maybe 5). Neither do my plants show signs of being seriously > chowed down on > > and my fish don't seem to be bothered by them. The only evidence > left behind > > from the snails is one of my anacharis plants keeps getting > uprooted. Could > > the baby snails have been eaten by one of my fish. The tank has > assorted > > platies and julli cories. Do either of these fish make a tasty > snack of > > snails? And if thats the case, maybe that would explain why I > haven't yet > > seen a population explosion. Since I sort of like the snails in > there, what > > do ya'll think of fishing out the adult-sized ones if and when I > begin to > > see too many? Melissa > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lisa Robinson" <oo.lisa.oo@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi. I'm fairly new to the Group and this hobby. > > > > > > I've found the information obtained from this group > > > > > > unbelievably helpful. Thank you all for sharing > > > > > > all that you do. > > > > > > I do have a question though. I have a pregnant > > > > > > Tuxedo Platy. The daddy is a Mickey Mouse Platy > > > > > > so I can't wait to see what the babies will look like =) > > > > > > Anyhoo, I've tried to get a lot of information about > > > > > > pregnant platy's from this group and the past > > > > > > few days have been most helpful. But I'm wondering > > > > > > if it could hurt her to be in the "mommy-to-be house" > > > > > > for too long? Or is there such a thing as "too long"? > > > > > > It's one of those boxy, net looking ones. It's also > > > > > > hanging from the side of her original tank so she > > > > > > never left her original home. I know there is no > > > > > > certain number of days for gestation but can someone > > > > > > give me a round-a-bout number??? > > > > > > Thanks again for everything. > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > Alabama No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26165	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Small pet shops

I always ask them if they are ever going to start carrying Bio-Spira and do they have plain ammonia for fishless cycling. If you get the deer-in-the-headlights stare, you know they don't know much about modern fish keeping. Or you could ask them how many goldfish you can keep in a 10G tank. Of course the answer would be none but the normal answer I get is anywhere from 2-5. Poor goldfish... one of the most abused pets in the world. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Small pet shops Amanda: What questions do you typically ask? And of course, knowing the correct answer before hand also helps!! So, as a n00b, what types of questions should I be asking? As for the Mom and Pop stores, I also am into model railroading, and while I know that there are things that I can find online or at larger stores, cheaper, the smaller mom and pop stores typically give me the best quality service and repeat customers also reap some longer term benefits. I agree though, if the store is less than quality and the customer service stinks, then I'd move on too. Rob No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26166	From: Debra	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Looking for a name

That is a BEAUTIFUL Betta! How about Scarlet O'Hara, not very original but that's what I thought as soon as I saw the fish. DM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26167	From: ED	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name

TY That has been one of the choices we are considering. Among 'Attila The Fin' 'Diablo' 'Santa Fe' My personal favorite 'The Red Barron' but I've been shot down because I owned a poodle years ago that was his registered name. "Fuego" but it sounds kinda Fru Fru. 'Red Beard' the pirate. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Debra" <dmelton2@...> wrote: > > > That is a BEAUTIFUL Betta! > > How about Scarlet O'Hara, not very original but that's what I thought > as soon as I saw the fish. > > DM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26168	From: Debra	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name

Or El Rojo - The Red!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26169	From: Debra	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Debra" <dmelton2@...> wrote: > > > Or Rojo Piscado! Red Fish

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26170	From: Jim	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Shipping question

Today I spent all afternoon trying to figure out a way to ship a few fish to a fellow hobbyist about 275 miles from me near Charleston SC. I called the Post Office to get some prices and the cost to ship by Express Mail was $45.25. But then the postmaster tells me that there is no overnight Next Day delivery to anywhere out of the Asheville NC area. A package shipped on Monday at 8am would be delivered by 3pm on Wed. So much for that. Next I tried FedEx and found that even ground service could be delivered by the end of the next day at the reasonable cost of $24.58. Then they hit me with they don't ship live animals. They said that there was an exception for tropical fish, but there were limitations. First you must have a permit from the US Fish and Wildlife Service and can only be shipped from a business to a business except breeders can ship to a fish store. I wonder how long it would take for a bureaucracy of our govenment to approve a permit... I am betting it is not very expedient. Next you must submit your packaging to FedEx for approval before you are allowed to ship fish. Again another delay. So Much for that idea. As a last resort I tried UPS and found that I can indeed ship the fish (did not say anything about permits) via UPS Next Day Air and would be delivered by end of the next day at a cost of $78.00. Checking their UPS Ground showed that was compatively inexpensive and would be delivered by the end of the day 2 days later. (Shipped on Mon and arrive on Wed) The cost was only a nickel more than if I shipped via USPS Express Mail and would arrive at the same time. I have had fish shipped to me numerous times by Express Mail and by UPS. I certainly trust UPS with a package more than the USPS. I see fish for sale on ebay and aquabid. What to do... with the price of gasoline making a 150 mile round trip for my truck and the customer, it would seem prudent to utilize the UPS Ground in this case. Has anyone had any experience with shipping fish? I am open to suggestions.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26171	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name

Or Pescados Rojos Ennegrecido (Blackened Red Fish.. MMMMMMM!!!!) Oops... don't tell the Betta I said that. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Looking for a name --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Debra" <dmelton2@...> wrote: > > > Or Rojo Piscado! Red Fish No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26172	From: Jim	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question

I forgot to mention that I thought about just send the package via FedEx Home wich was enexpensive and service would be delivered by the end of the next day. My roommate recalled overhearing the owner of our LFS we supply that we needed a permit and that all packages were xrayed at the terminal of origin. Would the Xrays hurt the fish? Would they report me to US F&W if they saw fish in the xray? I did get in a discussion with the postmaster when I talked with him and he told me there was no next day service to anywhere from our area. I then asked him how much it cost for a book of Second Class stamps. He told me there was no second class. I told him that I had been a customer of the Post Offce since the time when a 1st Class letter could be mailed for 3 cents and postcards for a penny and that they had better start printing some as I had had nothing but second class service for at least the last 10 years. he was not amused, but the rest of the customers in line all applauded. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <huron62@...> wrote: > > Today I spent all afternoon trying to figure out a way to ship a few > fish to a fellow hobbyist about 275 miles from me near Charleston SC. > I called the Post Office to get some prices and the cost to ship by > Express Mail was $45.25. But then the postmaster tells me that there > is no overnight Next Day delivery to anywhere out of the Asheville NC > area. A package shipped on Monday at 8am would be delivered by 3pm on > Wed. So much for that. > > Next I tried FedEx and found that even ground service could be > delivered by the end of the next day at the reasonable cost of > $24.58. Then they hit me with they don't ship live animals. They said > that there was an exception for tropical fish, but there were > limitations. First you must have a permit from the US Fish and > Wildlife Service and can only be shipped from a business to a > business except breeders can ship to a fish store. I wonder how long > it would take for a bureaucracy of our govenment to approve a > permit... I am betting it is not very expedient. Next you must submit > your packaging to FedEx for approval before you are allowed to ship > fish. Again another delay. So Much for that idea. > > As a last resort I tried UPS and found that I can indeed ship the > fish (did not say anything about permits) via UPS Next Day Air and > would be delivered by end of the next day at a cost of $78.00. > Checking their UPS Ground showed that was compatively inexpensive and > would be delivered by the end of the day 2 days later. (Shipped on > Mon and arrive on Wed) The cost was only a nickel more than if I > shipped via USPS Express Mail and would arrive at the same time. > > I have had fish shipped to me numerous times by Express Mail and by > UPS. I certainly trust UPS with a package more than the USPS. I see > fish for sale on ebay and aquabid. What to do... with the price of > gasoline making a 150 mile round trip for my truck and the customer, > it would seem prudent to utilize the UPS Ground in this case. > > Has anyone had any experience with shipping fish? I am open to > suggestions. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26173	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question

You can do the 2nd Day Priority Mail from the USPS for under $10.00 for up to two pounds, including the shipping box, etc. I've gotten fish and cherry shrimp that way with no problem. Just use pieces of styrofoam to line the outside of the box and to separate the bags. A heat pack in the middle will keep the temp stable. If you can put a stalk of Anacharis or something similar into the bags, that will transfer some of the nitrifying bacteria growing on the plants surface. As far as the "don't ship live animals" thing, I think you are better off just not telling them and take advantage of a lower overnight price and avoid all of the BS rules. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 7:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Shipping question Today I spent all afternoon trying to figure out a way to ship a few fish to a fellow hobbyist about 275 miles from me near Charleston SC. I called the Post Office to get some prices and the cost to ship by Express Mail was $45.25. But then the postmaster tells me that there is no overnight Next Day delivery to anywhere out of the Asheville NC area. A package shipped on Monday at 8am would be delivered by 3pm on Wed. So much for that. Next I tried FedEx and found that even ground service could be delivered by the end of the next day at the reasonable cost of $24.58. Then they hit me with they don't ship live animals. They said that there was an exception for tropical fish, but there were limitations. First you must have a permit from the US Fish and Wildlife Service and can only be shipped from a business to a business except breeders can ship to a fish store. I wonder how long it would take for a bureaucracy of our govenment to approve a permit... I am betting it is not very expedient. Next you must submit your packaging to FedEx for approval before you are allowed to ship fish. Again another delay. So Much for that idea. As a last resort I tried UPS and found that I can indeed ship the fish (did not say anything about permits) via UPS Next Day Air and would be delivered by end of the next day at a cost of $78.00. Checking their UPS Ground showed that was compatively inexpensive and would be delivered by the end of the day 2 days later. (Shipped on Mon and arrive on Wed) The cost was only a nickel more than if I shipped via USPS Express Mail and would arrive at the same time. I have had fish shipped to me numerous times by Express Mail and by UPS. I certainly trust UPS with a package more than the USPS. I see fish for sale on ebay and aquabid. What to do... with the price of gasoline making a 150 mile round trip for my truck and the customer, it would seem prudent to utilize the UPS Ground in this case. Has anyone had any experience with shipping fish? I am open to suggestions. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26174	From: rsteph49	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish

I recently purchased a Chocolate Chip Starfish for my tank (about 4-5 days ago). I've noticed over the last 2 days some what stuff forming on him. It looks like it's starting to flake off of him (almost like he's disolving or something). It's a FOWLR tank, with 2 fire flamefish and a common clownfish. So far the only cleaning crew I've got is the starfish and 1 turbo snail; so I don't think that any of the tank mates are bothering him. At last check my chemical levels were good (based on my testing). My Sality was a little high (1.025) and my temperature is at 79 degreed farenheit. All of my chemical levels are within the safe/ideal to okay range. Does anyone have any ideas what might be causing this? and what I might be able to do to fix it (if anything)?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question

They don't even x-ray every piece of luggage going on a passenger plane. I seriously doubt they x-ray every package. As long as your mailing label doesn't say "From: Osama Bin Laden, To: Al Qaeda", I think there's a very slim chance your package would get randomly x-rayed. I don't think the x-rays would hurt your fish either. Maybe if you had a pregnant livebearer since x-rays are not given to pregnant women but I think that it would only harm the unborn fry, not the adult fish. Of course, this is just based on my lay perspective and maybe someone with x-ray training would have better insight. I agree with you on the need for a 2nd Class stamp though! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 7:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Shipping question I forgot to mention that I thought about just send the package via FedEx Home wich was enexpensive and service would be delivered by the end of the next day. My roommate recalled overhearing the owner of our LFS we supply that we needed a permit and that all packages were xrayed at the terminal of origin. Would the Xrays hurt the fish? Would they report me to US F&W if they saw fish in the xray? I did get in a discussion with the postmaster when I talked with him and he told me there was no next day service to anywhere from our area. I then asked him how much it cost for a book of Second Class stamps. He told me there was no second class. I told him that I had been a customer of the Post Offce since the time when a 1st Class letter could be mailed for 3 cents and postcards for a penny and that they had better start printing some as I had had nothing but second class service for at least the last 10 years. he was not amused, but the rest of the customers in line all applauded. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim" <huron62@...> wrote: > > Today I spent all afternoon trying to figure out a way to ship a few > fish to a fellow hobbyist about 275 miles from me near Charleston SC. > I called the Post Office to get some prices and the cost to ship by > Express Mail was $45.25. But then the postmaster tells me that there > is no overnight Next Day delivery to anywhere out of the Asheville NC > area. A package shipped on Monday at 8am would be delivered by 3pm on > Wed. So much for that. > > Next I tried FedEx and found that even ground service could be > delivered by the end of the next day at the reasonable cost of $24.58. > Then they hit me with they don't ship live animals. They said > that there was an exception for tropical fish, but there were > limitations. First you must have a permit from the US Fish and > Wildlife Service and can only be shipped from a business to a business > except breeders can ship to a fish store. I wonder how long > it would take for a bureaucracy of our govenment to approve a > permit... I am betting it is not very expedient. Next you must submit > your packaging to FedEx for approval before you are allowed to ship > fish. Again another delay. So Much for that idea. > > As a last resort I tried UPS and found that I can indeed ship the fish > (did not say anything about permits) via UPS Next Day Air and would be > delivered by end of the next day at a cost of $78.00. > Checking their UPS Ground showed that was compatively inexpensive and > would be delivered by the end of the day 2 days later. (Shipped on Mon > and arrive on Wed) The cost was only a nickel more than if I shipped > via USPS Express Mail and would arrive at the same time. > > I have had fish shipped to me numerous times by Express Mail and by > UPS. I certainly trust UPS with a package more than the USPS. I see > fish for sale on ebay and aquabid. What to do... with the price of > gasoline making a 150 mile round trip for my truck and the customer, > it would seem prudent to utilize the UPS Ground in this case. > > Has anyone had any experience with shipping fish? I am open to > suggestions. > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26176	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question (for Lenny)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26177	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question

Thank you for your responses Lenny. You are one of several that I count on for good advice in this group. Your thoughts echoed my own on the xrays. I guess I just needed to have someone agree that my train was running on the right track.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> From: GoldLenny@...> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:49:54 -0600> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Shipping question> > They don't even x-ray every piece of luggage going on a passenger plane. I> seriously doubt they x-ray every package. As long as your mailing label> doesn't say "From: Osama Bin Laden, To: Al Qaeda", I think there's a very> slim chance your package would get randomly x-rayed. I don't think the> x-rays would hurt your fish either. Maybe if you had a pregnant livebearer> since x-rays are not given to pregnant women but I think that it would only> harm the unborn fry, not the adult fish. Of course, this is just based on> my lay perspective and maybe someone with x-ray training would have better> insight.> > I agree with you on the need for a 2nd Class stamp though! LOL> > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26178	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question

Hi Lenny, I don't think they check every piece of luggage either but they checked mine in Texas three years ago. I was flying out of DFW and the airline and the TSA each stopped me seperately for having live fish.?They both claimed I could not fly them out. I didn't give in and explained that the fish were going to die if I left them in the airport. Or they could fly home with me and live. I have flown with fish since then without hassle. I had a guest speaker flyi n to speak at one of the Aquarium societies I belong to and the airline would not allow him to bring fish in his luggage. His wife had to go to the airport and pick up his fish. Despite his not being allowed to bring them I have had other speakers bring fish with no problems at all. I suggest either getting it in writing ahead of time with names of who you spoke with if you checked by phone, or having a back up plan like someone picking up the fish from the airport.? YMMV -Mike They don't even x-ray every piece of luggage going on a passenger plane. I seriously doubt they x-ray every package. As long as your mailing label doesn't say "From: Osama Bin Laden, To: Al Qaeda", I think there's a very slim chance your package would get randomly x-rayed. I don't think the x-rays would hurt your fish either. Maybe if you had a pregnant livebearer since x-rays are not given to pregnant women but I think that it would only harm the unborn fry, not the adult fish. Of course, this is just based on my lay perspective and maybe someone with x-ray training would have better insight. I agree with you on the need for a 2nd Class stamp though! LOL Lenny Vasbinder -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 6:49 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Shipping question [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26179	From: bmp	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?

--- Maxmillionmaxcat@... wrote: > > In a message dated 2/27/2008 6:43:14 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > hillfarm@... writes: > > Shari > > > > My absolute favorite library book (I've renewed it > once already) is called > Setting Up a Tropical Aquarium by Stuart Thraves. > It has amazing phtos - > especially of the many plants and materials used to > design an aquarium, but also > of fish as well. I continually refer to it and love > it so much that I will > either buy a copy or pay off the library. Hello Shari, Thanks for sharing how much you enjoy the Stuart Thraves book. It just so happens that I am a reference librarian and new book selector; just about a week ago I chose the Thraves book as one of the new ones we will be ordering. I will look forward to seeing it for myself. Since you like it so well and suggested you will either buy your own copy or 'pay off the library' (which I take to mean you would claim you lost it and then pay for it plus a fee) I ask you to please lean in favor of buying your own copy. Please allow me to explain. I am not fussing at you but I hope you will consider that if someone pays for a 'lost' book, there is no guarantee at all that the book will be replaced. The money a person would pay for it would likely go into the city's general revenue fund and would not even stay in the library's budget line. Also, books don't stay in print very long, usually only about 1-2 years, if that. If I recall correctly, when I placed the Thraves book in the cart I was forming, there was only a small handful of copies in stock at our (nationwide) supplier's warehouse so there is a chance we won't get one at all. So, once your library's copy is gone, it is gone and no-one else in the community has the chance to read it and enjoy it. I am saying this only because I know that many people don't realize this; if they did they would just return the book. Okay, I'll take off my librarian hat now. I just got off work and need to remember that I'm not there anymore...until tomorrow! Thank goodness it will be Friday. Good evening, Beverly Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26180	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question

Mike, You are talking about carry-on luggage whereas I was talking about checked baggage. Yes, all carry-on luggage gets x-rayed as you go through the security check-point(s) but for the bags you leave at the counter to get stuck in the belly of the plane, only a fraction of it is x-rayed or examined. I'm not disclosing any national security issues here. It's just impractical to do at this point. As automated technology becomes available, I imagine all luggage will eventually be x-rayed or otherwise scanned. Personally, I think all airport security is a little overkill as someone wanting to perpetuate terrorism can do it in many other forums besides a plane or airport. Or you could do like I use to do. Always carry your own bomb whenever you fly. What's the chance of there being two bombs on the same plane? LOL Of course, I can't tell that joke at the ticket counter any longer. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 9:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Shipping question Hi Lenny, I don't think they check every piece of luggage either but they checked mine in Texas three years ago. I was flying out of DFW and the airline and the TSA each stopped me seperately for having live fish.?They both claimed I could not fly them out. I didn't give in and explained that the fish were going to die if I left them in the airport. Or they could fly home with me and live. I have flown with fish since then without hassle. I had a guest speaker flyi n to speak at one of the Aquarium societies I belong to and the airline would not allow him to bring fish in his luggage. His wife had to go to the airport and pick up his fish. Despite his not being allowed to bring them I have had other speakers bring fish with no problems at all. I suggest either getting it in writing ahead of time with names of who you spoke with if you checked by phone, or having a back up plan like someone picking up the fish from the airport.? YMMV -Mike They don't even x-ray every piece of luggage going on a passenger plane. I seriously doubt they x-ray every package. As long as your mailing label doesn't say "From: Osama Bin Laden, To: Al Qaeda", I think there's a very slim chance your package would get randomly x-rayed. I don't think the x-rays would hurt your fish either. Maybe if you had a pregnant livebearer since x-rays are not given to pregnant women but I think that it would only harm the unborn fry, not the adult fish. Of course, this is just based on my lay perspective and maybe someone with x-ray training would have better insight. I agree with you on the need for a 2nd Class stamp though! LOL Lenny Vasbinder -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 6:49 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Shipping question No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26181	From: bmp	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far

Hello Ray, You certainly gave me a lot of detail to consider. If I find that the Pimafix (which Lenny suggested) does not do the trick then I will consider your ideas and suggestions. As for the amount of aquarium salt I used, the ratio was found in one of David Boruchowitz's books. I did not just make something up as I went along. If I may speak up for myself here, I do not care for your assumption that I do not vacuum my gravel when I do my partial water changes. I certainly do. The area where the older part of the plant had to be uprooted was particularly mulm-y just because of the passage of time and because I do not vacuum too close to my plants. Since this tank lacks Flourite or another fortified substrate, I let the natural accumulation of 'stuff' nearest them contribute nutrients for the plants. I also do not like your blanket remark that I need to improve my maintenance routine when you do not know just what I do and how I do it. If you ever come to my house and see me engage in the water changes you just might have a better impression of what I'm doing. I did not go into detail on that point because I felt my post was quite lengthy enough and didn't feel that any other reader of my note would be that interested. As for how the fish are doing now, well, their lights are off (it is past 10 pm and I've been at work most of the day & evening). Therefore, I can't say much except that instead of 5 fish deliberately swimming against the current (in apparent relief of their skin's irritation) there are only 2. I will take that as a hopeful sign and check on them again in the morning, when it will be time for another dose of Pimafix. Thank you for allowing me to speak up for myself. I am a friendly but careful person and I would like to feel welcome here. Good evening, Beverly Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26182	From: bmp	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far

Hello Lenny, I first read your note here this morning, when I had a couple of hours before I had to report to the salt mines, oops, library where I work. I got a bottle of Pimafix, followed the directions exactly and administered the first dose. While I was at work, I took a few minutes to search and get a sense of how well satisfied other users of Pimafix are for situations like this. It sounds like a good beginning to solve this problem. I am hopeful the Pimafix will help my fish. As I mentioned in my reply to Ray, the lights are off on the tank so I can't report on how exactly the fish are doing. But since just fewer than half of them are still swimming the rapids to get itch relief, I am hoping the others are feeling some benefit from the Pimafix. Tomorrow morning will be time to add the 2nd dose so I am hoping to see stasis or perhaps a bit of improvement before I go back to Information Central (as a former coworker called it.) Thanks for your advice, I'm hoping it will work for me and my fish. Good evening, Beverly Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26183	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far

I like using Melafix and/or Pimafix as a first line of defense if any of my fish start showing any signs of illness. They are mild treatments compared to many other things out there. Salt is another good thing but many plants do not tolerate the higher levels of salinity nor do some species of fish so it's not always a practical treatment. While we are talking about Melafix and Pimafix, I want to clarify that these should be used in 1/2 doses (or less) when treating labyrinth fish... which weren't listed in your stocking so I didn't bring up this clarification but in case someone else is reading this, I wanted to add this information. As you may already know, Pimafix (and Melafix) emit a very sweet smell and I think the fumes that get caught above the water line affect the breathing of labyrinth fish like Bettas and Gouramis, etc. API, the maker of both products actually makes a product called Bettafix which is a much weaker solution of Melafix but I've found that just using a partial dose of Melafix is a more affordable option since Bettafix is nearly as expensive as Melafix for a much weaker solution. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bmp Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fungus--guppies--what I've done so far Hello Lenny, I first read your note here this morning, when I had a couple of hours before I had to report to the salt mines, oops, library where I work. I got a bottle of Pimafix, followed the directions exactly and administered the first dose. While I was at work, I took a few minutes to search and get a sense of how well satisfied other users of Pimafix are for situations like this. It sounds like a good beginning to solve this problem. I am hopeful the Pimafix will help my fish. As I mentioned in my reply to Ray, the lights are off on the tank so I can't report on how exactly the fish are doing. But since just fewer than half of them are still swimming the rapids to get itch relief, I am hoping the others are feeling some benefit from the Pimafix. Tomorrow morning will be time to add the 2nd dose so I am hoping to see stasis or perhaps a bit of improvement before I go back to Information Central (as a former coworker called it.) Thanks for your advice, I'm hoping it will work for me and my fish. Good evening, Beverly Peace, please! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26184	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 2/28/2008
Subject: Big white spot on my swordtail?

My male swordtail has a white spot on the side of his head not a small one like ick but much bigger than that and just one. We had gotten a rainbow fish that was very aggressive a couple months ago but he would chase our tinfoils and we woke up to their fins being torn and so on so he went back..about the same time the rainbow shark was attacking the tinfoils the swordtail ended up with this white spot..I just assumed it was from the rainbow shark but it has not gone away and we havent had the shark in awhile now. The other fish are great so Im lost at what this may be. The swordtail acts fine, eats fine, swims fine but has a big (for his small size) white spot on the side of his head. Anyone have any suggestions what it may be? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26185	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish

what type of salt are you using? red sea salt is the best for invertebrates. Do you have the algae or meats for it to eat? It can wipe out 20 turbo snails in a week. is it moving around alot, or staying in one place? if it is moving alot, it is hungry and looking for food. ----- Original Message ---- From: rsteph49 <rsteph49@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 9:48:40 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish I recently purchased a Chocolate Chip Starfish for my tank (about 4-5 days ago). I've noticed over the last 2 days some what stuff forming on him. It looks like it's starting to flake off of him (almost like he's disolving or something). It's a FOWLR tank, with 2 fire flamefish and a common clownfish. So far the only cleaning crew I've got is the starfish and 1 turbo snail; so I don't think that any of the tank mates are bothering him. At last check my chemical levels were good (based on my testing). My Sality was a little high (1.025) and my temperature is at 79 degreed farenheit. All of my chemical levels are within the safe/ideal to okay range. Does anyone have any ideas what might be causing this? and what I might be able to do to fix it (if anything)? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26186	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?

In a message dated 2/28/2008 11:12:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, bmpardue@... writes: So, once your library's copy is gone, it is gone and no-one else in the community has the chance to read it and enjoy it. I am saying this only because I know that many people don't realize this; if they did they would just return the book. Thanks Beverly - I am duly chastised :) "Twas just a joke about keeping it - I'm attending our yearly library book sale this weekend and searching a few book stores instead. But, you made a good choice for your library and will love the book. Barbara **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26187	From: bmp	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?

--- Maxmillionmaxcat@... wrote: > > In a message dated 2/28/2008 11:12:04 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > bmpardue@... writes: > > So, once your library's copy is gone, it > is gone and no-one else in the community has the > chance to read it and enjoy it. I am saying this > only > because I know that many people don't realize this; > if > they did they would just return the book. > > > > Thanks Beverly - I am duly chastised :) "Twas just a > joke about keeping it - > I'm attending our yearly library book sale this > weekend and searching a few > book stores instead. But, you made a good choice > for your library and will > love the book. > Barbara Hi Barbara, Thanks for understanding that I was only trying to explain. Actually, I am the only selector for the section on pets/gardening/agriculture (plus some other more 'heavyweight' areas too) and am thrilled to have quite a generous amount of money to spend. I have pulled so many aquarium books from the 1960s and that era by Herbert Axelrod with his clever prose. As interesting as they are for their illustrations and insight into how things used to be, they are not good starting points for absolute beginners in 2008. I am so happy to be ordering all the better, newer books which our supplier has. It's fun for me to check them out too--wink, wink--and enjoy them as a reader, not just a librarian. I've been able to get Takashi Amano's 1st and 3rd Nature Aquarium books but for some reason our vendor just can't seem to get a copy of book 2. But I keep trying. See you later, soon I need to get to the library again. Beverly Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26188	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Big white spot on my swordtail?

Is it raised, fuzzy, pink or red around the edges, etc.? This page has lots of pictures of various fish ailments and info on each. The original site is no longer online but the original page is still available on the Wayback Archive site... http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Big white spot on my swordtail? My male swordtail has a white spot on the side of his head not a small one like ick but much bigger than that and just one. We had gotten a rainbow fish that was very aggressive a couple months ago but he would chase our tinfoils and we woke up to their fins being torn and so on so he went back..about the same time the rainbow shark was attacking the tinfoils the swordtail ended up with this white spot..I just assumed it was from the rainbow shark but it has not gone away and we havent had the shark in awhile now. The other fish are great so Im lost at what this may be. The swordtail acts fine, eats fine, swims fine but has a big (for his small size) white spot on the side of his head. Anyone have any suggestions what it may be? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 2/28/2008 12:14 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26189	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Big white spot on my swordtail?

I will go check out the site but no its flat no fuzz and no redness or pink I will send you a pic lenny if that is ok i think I have a couple where it shows if not Ill attempt to get a few. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 8:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big white spot on my swordtail? Is it raised, fuzzy, pink or red around the edges, etc.? This page has lots of pictures of various fish ailments and info on each. The original site is no longer online but the original page is still available on the Wayback Archive site... http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/diseasehtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Big white spot on my swordtail? My male swordtail has a white spot on the side of his head not a small one like ick but much bigger than that and just one. We had gotten a rainbow fish that was very aggressive a couple months ago but he would chase our tinfoils and we woke up to their fins being torn and so on so he went back..about the same time the rainbow shark was attacking the tinfoils the swordtail ended up with this white spot..I just assumed it was from the rainbow shark but it has not gone away and we havent had the shark in awhile now. The other fish are great so Im lost at what this may be. The swordtail acts fine, eats fine, swims fine but has a big (for his small size) white spot on the side of his head. Anyone have any suggestions what it may be? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 2/28/2008 12:14 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26190	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question

As a former airline supervisor, trainer and ground security coordinator designee with United Express, Independence Air and MAXjet, I can give you some advice. The very first thing you should do is check your airline's web site and see what the rules are. For example, United will not allow carry-on or checked live fish, period. You would have to send them by reserved air freight, which is expensive and requires advance notice. I haven't checked with other carriers. Mike, I'd be very careful carrying fish onto a plane these days - someday you may run into someone that will deny you passage. Then what? You'll either not fly or have dead fish. Neither outcome is appealing. Don't wait until the day of travel to do your research. Check this out as soon as you decide to travel. Advance notice is required for everything you do with pet travel. Some large hubs DO x-ray all checked bags, and more will start to do so in the future. Some sensitive articles (like high-speed film, occupied pet kennels, etc.) are hand screened with advance notice. I believe (but I'm not certain) that water will block low-powered x-rays anyway, so they shouldn't be an issue. I have my own opinions on airline security and the TSA, but I cannot voice them as I could be prosecuted. Gregg --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Mike, > > You are talking about carry-on luggage whereas I was talking about checked > baggage. Yes, all carry-on luggage gets x-rayed as you go through the > security check-point(s) but for the bags you leave at the counter to get > stuck in the belly of the plane, only a fraction of it is x-rayed or > examined. > > I'm not disclosing any national security issues here. It's just impractical > to do at this point. As automated technology becomes available, I imagine > all luggage will eventually be x-rayed or otherwise scanned. Personally, I > think all airport security is a little overkill as someone wanting to > perpetuate terrorism can do it in many other forums besides a plane or > airport. > > Or you could do like I use to do. Always carry your own bomb whenever you > fly. What's the chance of there being two bombs on the same plane? LOL > Of course, I can't tell that joke at the ticket counter any longer. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 9:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Shipping question > > Hi Lenny, > > I don't think they check every piece of luggage either but they checked mine > in Texas three years ago. I was flying out of DFW and the airline and the > TSA each stopped me seperately for having live fish.?They both claimed I > could not fly them out. I didn't give in and explained that the fish were > going to die if I left them in the airport. Or they could fly home with me > and live. > > I have flown with fish since then without hassle. > > I had a guest speaker flyi n to speak at one of the Aquarium societies I > belong to and the airline would not allow him to bring fish in his luggage. > His wife had to go to the airport and pick up his fish. > > Despite his not being allowed to bring them I have had other speakers bring > fish with no problems at all. > > I suggest either getting it in writing ahead of time with names of who you > spoke with if you checked by phone, or having a back up plan like someone > picking up the fish from the airport.? > > YMMV > > -Mike > > They don't even x-ray every piece of luggage going on a passenger plane. I > seriously doubt they x-ray every package. As long as your mailing label > doesn't say "From: Osama Bin Laden, To: Al Qaeda", I think there's a very > slim chance your package would get randomly x-rayed. I don't think the > x-rays would hurt your fish either. Maybe if you had a pregnant livebearer > since x-rays are not given to pregnant women but I think that it would only > harm the unborn fry, not the adult fish. Of course, this is just based on my > lay perspective and maybe someone with x-ray training would have better > insight. > > I agree with you on the need for a 2nd Class stamp though! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 6:49 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Shipping question > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 > 4:34 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26191	From: rsteph49	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish

It move's it's 'arms' some, but it hasn't moved from where I put it since I put it in the tank. I've got a fair amount of algae in the tank. And I even tried to place a small chunk of frozen brine shrimp under it, but it never ate it. I checked it this morning and it looks like it's lost some of it's "chips". If it helps any in diagnosing things... here are the results from my last water test. Nitrates: 35 ppm (mg/L) Nitrites: 0 ppm (mg/L) Chlorine: 0 Alkalinity: 240 ppm (KH) pH: 7.8 Ammonia: 0.25 ppm (mg/L) Spec. Gravity: 1.025 Temp. Left Side: 78 degrees farenheit Temp. Right Side: 79 degrees farenheit The Nitrates and Ammonia are a recent spike since adding the snail and starfish. The snail died already, so I'm thinking that may be adding to the spikes. I'm going to try a water change this afternoon and see if that helps any.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26192	From: Carmen H	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Injured Angel?

A couple of days ago, I noticed that my favorite angelfish had what looked like an injury on the side of his head near his gill, a small "crater". He's his usual vivacious self, and has a good appetite. I suspected the injury may have been inflicted by a rather nasty krib that has now been moved. The wound appears to be getting smaller and healing well. But this morning when I fed, after he gulped food at the surface, I swear I saw an air bubble exit the wound! Just tested the water 2 days ago, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate very low (forget #), Ph 7.2 (normal for us). Mature, heavily planted, medium stocked 55g tank with no other signs of illness. Any ideas/suggestions? This little guy is the most important fish to me in the tank, I will treat the whole tank if needed but would really prefer not to move/stress him. If I need to treat with something tough on the biofilter, I can pull media from another tank to avoid a full cycle after completetion... -- Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com Ontario, Canada [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26193	From: Richdeer3 Pond Supplies	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: book suggestions?

You can find almost any book by visiting http://.www.Worldcat.org They can inter library loan it. If it's out of print try posting on forums or craig's list for a used copy. Good luck, Gail Gail Hopkins Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com richdeer3@... Layaway for Spring --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26194	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Injured Angel?

If it looks like it's healing, then I would leave the tank alone for now. If you have Melafix on hand, you could do a 3-day to 7-day treatment, but I'm not sure it's completely necessary. Melafix will not harm your biofiltration and it's a mild antibacterial treatment. I compare it to putting some kind of antibiotic ointment on a minor injury that we might have. As far as the bubble, it could have been that since he was gulping food at the surface, some of the air just passed through the gill cover and appeared to come out of the wound... unless the wound goes all the way through the gill cover. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:17 AM To: Tropical Fish Club; Aquatic Life Subject: [AquaticLife] Injured Angel? A couple of days ago, I noticed that my favorite angelfish had what looked like an injury on the side of his head near his gill, a small "crater". He's his usual vivacious self, and has a good appetite. I suspected the injury may have been inflicted by a rather nasty krib that has now been moved. The wound appears to be getting smaller and healing well. But this morning when I fed, after he gulped food at the surface, I swear I saw an air bubble exit the wound! Just tested the water 2 days ago, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate very low (forget #), Ph 7.2 (normal for us). Mature, heavily planted, medium stocked 55g tank with no other signs of illness. Any ideas/suggestions? This little guy is the most important fish to me in the tank, I will treat the whole tank if needed but would really prefer not to move/stress him. If I need to treat with something tough on the biofilter, I can pull media from another tank to avoid a full cycle after completetion... -- Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com Ontario, Canada No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 2/28/2008 12:14 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26195	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Tank design/arrangement help

I can't seem to get my tank arranged in a manner that I like. I'm trying to get a natural look like that on the bottom of a river. I've got a piece of driftwood and a rock then an assortment of plastic plants. I've re-arranged twice now and have ordered by first 2 live plants. I purchased Crypt Wendti Green and Java Fern. I thought about putting the Java Fern on the rock since I'm not sure I want to cover my Driftwood yet. I'm so nervous about using live plants and want to start out very slowly. If these 2 take, then I'll try some others. This is more or less a test for me. Is there anywhere I can go on the net to learn more about tank designing or some where to see a lot of pictures. I did purchase a lunar light for nighttime and absolutely LOVE the effect. It's blue. Anyone have any suggestions, thoughts, advise... ....just anything? Sorry if I sound desperate. But I'm one of those people whose house is just so-so and it's driving me crazy that my tank isn't. LOL. Have a great one! Lisa Alabama, USA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26196	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish

I think a water change is in order. Your CC star is probably died, by your discription.First and foremost is your PH and alkalinity are too low. Your salinity is a little too high. High ammonia will drive the PH down,so check it again after you remove the star and snail and do the water change. Only use Reverse Osmosis to mix with your salt.If it's still low after 24 hours, add some marine buffer with KH in it. Try to maintain the PH @ 8.2-8.4 and KH @ 500-600. Iodine is another important factor for invertebrates. The test for it is hard to find,expensive and hard to use and read. So I just tell my clients to use 1 teaspoon per 50 gallons every Friday. Iodine is extreamly toxic if overdosed so be carefull with it. Salt mix's have all the trace elements in them, so if you do regular water change,it should take care of it. The aquariums I recomend Iodine as an additive is load with inverts wall to wall and the more inverts you have the more trace elements needed. I hope this helps you out! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: rsteph49 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 9:19 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish It move's it's 'arms' some, but it hasn't moved from where I put it since I put it in the tank. I've got a fair amount of algae in the tank. And I even tried to place a small chunk of frozen brine shrimp under it, but it never ate it. I checked it this morning and it looks like it's lost some of it's "chips". If it helps any in diagnosing things... here are the results from my last water test. Nitrates: 35 ppm (mg/L) Nitrites: 0 ppm (mg/L) Chlorine: 0 Alkalinity: 240 ppm (KH) pH: 7.8 Ammonia: 0.25 ppm (mg/L) Spec. Gravity: 1.025 Temp. Left Side: 78 degrees farenheit Temp. Right Side: 79 degrees farenheit The Nitrates and Ammonia are a recent spike since adding the snail and starfish. The snail died already, so I'm thinking that may be adding to the spikes. I'm going to try a water change this afternoon and see if that helps any. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26197	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Tank design/arrangement help

Chuck's Planted Aquaria is a good place to start. Lots of articles, his own tank pictures, etc. and there is also a Links page with links to other plant sites. Nothing for sale on the site. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm Another site that has plants sortable by degree of difficulty is PlantGeek.net - http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=2 You could start out with the Very Easy and Easy plants which do not require any special lighting, CO2 generation or supplements. In my goldfish tank, I use 2" and 3" clay pots for my plants since I only keep a 1/2" of gravel at the bottom so it's easier to keep clean. This way, I can still have the plants in deeper substrate without having it throughout the tank. Of course, the goldfish are constantly rearranging things so the clay pots make it easier when I have to replant them also. I've also seen people use small clear glass vases and bowls or the sandwich type plastic zip-loc containers inside their goldfish tanks which are less obvious than the clay pots. If you have digging fish like some cichlids, the containers help with keeping live plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Robinson Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank design/arrangement help I can't seem to get my tank arranged in a manner that I like. I'm trying to get a natural look like that on the bottom of a river. I've got a piece of driftwood and a rock then an assortment of plastic plants. I've re-arranged twice now and have ordered by first 2 live plants. I purchased Crypt Wendti Green and Java Fern. I thought about putting the Java Fern on the rock since I'm not sure I want to cover my Driftwood yet. I'm so nervous about using live plants and want to start out very slowly. If these 2 take, then I'll try some others. This is more or less a test for me. Is there anywhere I can go on the net to learn more about tank designing or some where to see a lot of pictures. I did purchase a lunar light for nighttime and absolutely LOVE the effect. It's blue. Anyone have any suggestions, thoughts, advise... ....just anything? Sorry if I sound desperate. But I'm one of those people whose house is just so-so and it's driving me crazy that my tank isn't. LOL. Have a great one! Lisa Alabama, USA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 2/28/2008 12:14 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26198	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: UV Sterilizer

UV's are a great tool to have, but don't run them full time, it will cause your fish immunity system to weaken. They are also expensive and the bulbs have a limited life of efficiency and have to be replace at certain number of hours in use depending on the brand. In my many years in the aquarium trade, I have bought many brands. I can tell you not to buy JEBO brand, they a cheep units off e-bay, and they are JUNK ! I use American Aquarium Products UV's and they have a GREAT price and are very well made (USA) . They also carry the replacement bulbs. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Poul Wehner To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] UV Sterilizer I've been thinking about getting a UV unit too. How do you mount it? I wonder if it's possible to mount it inline with the outflow from my cannister filter.. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Jimmy McHaney <jimmym@...> wrote: > > > > > Last week I installed a 25W Gamma UV Sterilizer in my 90 g tank. I was > amazed at how quickly the water cleared up. I hadn't realized that it was > actually as unclear as it was. There is no longer a film on top of the > water. As a matter of fact I was concerned that it was killing some of the > beneficial bacteria in the water. I have done several test on the water and > the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH have not changed since I installed it. > > Jimmy McHaney > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26199	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: New Question - Tank design/arrangement help

Thanks Lenny. I want a tank as lovely as Chucks!! WOW! I did make one observation which brings me to another question. I noticed Chuck had no bubbles pumping anywhere in any of his tanks. I now have a bubble curtain. My question is, can I get rid of the bubble curtain once I have live plants growing? Do they produce enough O2 that this can be done? Big thanks in advance for everything. Lisa Alabama, USA -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 02/29/08 12:42:45 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank design/arrangement help Chuck's Planted Aquaria is a good place to start. Lots of articles, his own tank pictures, etc. and there is also a Links page with links to other plant sites. Nothing for sale on the site. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26200	From: ED	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name

Actually the vote went down last night.His name is Ta! Da! "Uncle Red" from the Red Green show. I know not flashy or even elegant, He's a charecter though. Blows up "I'll kick your ^$$!" every time we walk by. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Debra" <dmelton2@...> wrote: > > > Or El Rojo - The Red! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26201	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Small pet shops

I totally agree with the "quiz questions" the others have listed. If they don't know about ammonium chloride for cycling, they are probably clueless and not "real" aquarists : ) BUT, even if they don't know about this kind of cycling, they SHOULD know the nitrogen cycle and MUST know the particulars about keeping specific species. Also, if they don't have a basic knowledge of good water testing kits and how to use them...buyer beware! If I see a brackish species (ie some puffers) and they don't have a clue that they are brackish--this is NOT good. One of the best lectures I got on the brackish puffers was from the lady at Walmart! She KNEW her crap, including their feeding requirements, and I'm sure that's why the fish there are far better off than your average chain store. Any time I see a new species that I'm interested in, I always read up on it well before the purchase so I know exactally what the fish needs. I'm TERRIBLE about setting up species tanks--and that's why I'm at 9++++ tanks and rising (embarassed to tell how many really are under my care LOL). As a small LFS, I expect them to at least know that much info--what the fish needs--and if they don't I know I'm on my own. Not that being "on your own" is impossible--that's how I finally got some decent brackish puffs and quickly put them in the kind of tank they needed. I knew how to care for them even when the store didn't...yet they were a new shipment and I bought the healthiest of the tank and I haven't lost one and they are eating and are very happy. So--I do most of my quizzing about species' needs I guess. One of the big problems I see is stores--chain and small LFS--that carry CRAPPY CRAPPY test kits. In my opinion and from what I've seen myself and heard from others--buying a "doc welfish" or API product or any of the dip-stick tests is like flushing your $ down the loo. These kits don't work, and aren't any cheaper than those that do. I KNOW that Tetra Test and Red Sea are pretty decent, and I'm sure there are others out there (I think Kent products are OK too). When I see that this is all the store uses themselves--even to test water for a customer--that's a bad sign in my book. You could test straight household ammonia with an API kit and it does NOTHING and is a waste of time and $. hope this info helps! Amanda

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26202	From: ED	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri

Does anyone actually put them in with other fish? They seem to cling to some fish removing the 'coating' the a scaled fish has. Or am I missing something. Everytime I'm looking for algae aeters the store's try and push them off on me. I like the 'borneo' as they list it, I found it in the book under 'hillstream loaches'. Little fella's for smaller tanks. Anyone with experiance with either.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26203	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri

You are not missing a thing. They are bad news when they get a bit larger. -----Original Message----- From: ED <crowstarwalker@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 1:34 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri Does anyone actually put them in with other fish? They seem to cling to some fish removing the 'coating' the a scaled fish has. Or am I missing something. Everytime I'm looking for algae aeters the store's try and push them off on me. I like the 'borneo' as they list it, I found it in the book under 'hillstream loaches'. Little fella's for smaller tanks. Anyone with experiance with either. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26204	From: ED	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri

I thought so. I always see them attaching to other "healthy" fish in the stores and just kinda felt it looked wrong. What I've read says they are carnivorous. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > You are not missing a thing. They are bad news when they get a bit larger. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ED <crowstarwalker@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 1:34 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri > > > > > > > Does anyone actually put them in with other fish? They seem to cling to > some fish removing the 'coating' the a scaled fish has. Or am I missing > something. Everytime I'm looking for algae aeters the store's try and > push them off on me. I like the 'borneo' as they list it, I found it in > the book under 'hillstream loaches'. Little fella's for smaller tanks. > Anyone with experiance with either. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26205	From: harry perry	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri/Algae eaters

Try this http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algaeeaters.htm I hope this helps. Harry Deenerz@... wrote: You are not missing a thing. They are bad news when they get a bit larger. -----Original Message----- From: ED <crowstarwalker@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 1:34 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri Does anyone actually put them in with other fish? They seem to cling to some fish removing the 'coating' the a scaled fish has. Or am I missing something. Everytime I'm looking for algae aeters the store's try and push them off on me. I like the 'borneo' as they list it, I found it in the book under 'hillstream loaches'. Little fella's for smaller tanks. Anyone with experiance with either. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26206	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri

My golden chinese algea eater doesnt latch onto any of the other fish....that I know of. -----Original Message----- From: ED <crowstarwalker@...> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 3:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri Does anyone actually put them in with other fish? They seem to cling to some fish removing the 'coating' the a scaled fish has. Or am I missing something. Everytime I'm looking for algae aeters the store's try and push them off on me. I like the 'borneo' as they list it, I found it in the book under 'hillstream loaches'. Little fella's for smaller tanks. Anyone with experiance with either. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26207	From: harry perry	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, /Algae eaters, another link

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html Harry Deenerz@... wrote: You are not missing a thing. They are bad news when they get a bit larger. -----Original Message----- From: ED <crowstarwalker@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 1:34 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri Does anyone actually put them in with other fish? They seem to cling to some fish removing the 'coating' the a scaled fish has. Or am I missing something. Everytime I'm looking for algae aeters the store's try and push them off on me. I like the 'borneo' as they list it, I found it in the book under 'hillstream loaches'. Little fella's for smaller tanks. Anyone with experiance with either. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26208	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish

it sounds like it is dying. a long time ago i had one that did the same thing. it took me about 2 weeks to figure it out but it was slowly dying. the chips started falling off, white stringy stuff was on it. and then it just stopped moving and eating. ----- Original Message ---- From: rsteph49 <rsteph49@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:19:26 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Problem with Chocolate Chip Starfish It move's it's 'arms' some, but it hasn't moved from where I put it since I put it in the tank. I've got a fair amount of algae in the tank. And I even tried to place a small chunk of frozen brine shrimp under it, but it never ate it. I checked it this morning and it looks like it's lost some of it's "chips". If it helps any in diagnosing things... here are the results from my last water test. Nitrates: 35 ppm (mg/L) Nitrites: 0 ppm (mg/L) Chlorine: 0 Alkalinity: 240 ppm (KH) pH: 7.8 Ammonia: 0.25 ppm (mg/L) Spec. Gravity: 1.025 Temp. Left Side: 78 degrees farenheit Temp. Right Side: 79 degrees farenheit The Nitrates and Ammonia are a recent spike since adding the snail and starfish. The snail died already, so I'm thinking that may be adding to the spikes. I'm going to try a water change this afternoon and see if that helps any. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26209	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: New Question - Tank design/arrangement help

The answer about bubbles is yes, no and maybe. While you may not have seen bubbles, it's because most people turn off their filters, air pumps, CO2 generators, take out the heater, etc. prior to taking a picture so the water and plants are still when taking the picture and the tank does not look cluttered. If you eventually go with a CO2 generator, then you would want as little as possible surface agitation as that would allow the CO2 to out-gas from the water which would be defeating the purpose of the CO2 generation. If you do not have CO2 generation, then you can test for CO2 levels using pH and KH tests (one of Chuck's pages outlines this testing) and adjust your surface agitation (filter return, air pump, etc.) accordingly to maintain sufficient CO2 levels for your plants. One last note, your bubble wand is not actually putting O2 into your water. It's decorative for the most part but when the little bubbles "pop" at the surface, the surface agitation does allow for gas exchange, releasing CO2 and nitrogenous gases into the air and allowing O2 to enter the water. This same surface agitation can be accomplished by your filter return water. I don't have those air pumps on any of my tanks although I have had them in the past and I do keep an air pump handy in the event my home's A/C was to go out since I would then need additional surface agitation to help cool the water and to increase the O2 levels as warmer water does not hold as much O2 as cooler water. Now the maybe answer comes into play depending on the numbers of plants that you have and bioload of the tank. If you have sufficient plants growing properly with enough CO2 in the water where the plants produce O2 during photosynthesis, then you may not need any surface agitation or bubble wands. And now that you are thoroughly confused, keep reading the articles on Chuck's pages. All the chemistry, biology, etc., involved in fish keeping is kind of like riding a bike. You may fall down a few times while learning but once you get it that first time, you wonder why it was so hard to learn in the first place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Robinson Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 1:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: New Question - Tank design/arrangement help Thanks Lenny. I want a tank as lovely as Chucks!! WOW! I did make one observation which brings me to another question. I noticed Chuck had no bubbles pumping anywhere in any of his tanks. I now have a bubble curtain. My question is, can I get rid of the bubble curtain once I have live plants growing? Do they produce enough O2 that this can be done? Big thanks in advance for everything. Lisa Alabama, USA -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 02/29/08 12:42:45 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank design/arrangement help Chuck's Planted Aquaria is a good place to start. Lots of articles, his own tank pictures, etc. and there is also a Links page with links to other plant sites. Nothing for sale on the site. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm> _ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 2/28/2008 12:14 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26210	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name

Wooo Hoooo... that is short for Uncle Redneck.... right? Git 'er done! And your last post brings a new redneck joke to mind. You know you're a redneck fish when you live in a half-gallon bowl and think your poop don't stink! I think a little hot wheels car on little cinder blocks in his front yard would be a fitting tank decoration... or a double-wide trailer. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 1:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Looking for a name Actually the vote went down last night.His name is Ta! Da! "Uncle Red" from the Red Green show. I know not flashy or even elegant, He's a charecter though. Blows up "I'll kick your ^$$!" every time we walk by. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Debra" <dmelton2@...> wrote: > > > Or El Rojo - The Red! > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 2/28/2008 12:14 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Small pet shops

Amanda said: "... buying a "doc welfish" or API product or any of the dip-stick tests is like flushing your $ down the loo..." While I agree with most of what you say, including about the test-strips, why do you say the API Test Kits are a waste of money? Maybe you had a bad experience with one that was out of date or something but traditionally, the API test kits are as accurate as any of the other test-tube/reagent kits that I've used, including the Tetra-Laborette kit. I use the API and the T-L kits right now and they both show the same numbers on their respective tests. I've used the API ammonia test kit when fishless cycling a tank and it worked fine so I'm not sure why you had problems with it. The only negative I have about the API test kit is the color differences are sometimes hard to discern on nitrates and pH, but I find that's primarily due to the lighting in your home (they work fine under fluorescent lighting but not so good under incandescent lighting) or that people have color-blindness issues (which affects 25% of adults). Here's a free online test for color-blindness. http://colorvisiontesting.com/ and/or http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of abarker3wvuedu Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 1:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Small pet shops I totally agree with the "quiz questions" the others have listed. If they don't know about ammonium chloride for cycling, they are probably clueless and not "real" aquarists : ) BUT, even if they don't know about this kind of cycling, they SHOULD know the nitrogen cycle and MUST know the particulars about keeping specific species. Also, if they don't have a basic knowledge of good water testing kits and how to use them...buyer beware! If I see a brackish species (ie some puffers) and they don't have a clue that they are brackish--this is NOT good. One of the best lectures I got on the brackish puffers was from the lady at Walmart! She KNEW her crap, including their feeding requirements, and I'm sure that's why the fish there are far better off than your average chain store. Any time I see a new species that I'm interested in, I always read up on it well before the purchase so I know exactally what the fish needs. I'm TERRIBLE about setting up species tanks--and that's why I'm at 9++++ tanks and rising (embarassed to tell how many really are under my care LOL). As a small LFS, I expect them to at least know that much info--what the fish needs--and if they don't I know I'm on my own. Not that being "on your own" is impossible--that's how I finally got some decent brackish puffs and quickly put them in the kind of tank they needed. I knew how to care for them even when the store didn't...yet they were a new shipment and I bought the healthiest of the tank and I haven't lost one and they are eating and are very happy. So--I do most of my quizzing about species' needs I guess. One of the big problems I see is stores--chain and small LFS--that carry CRAPPY CRAPPY test kits. In my opinion and from what I've seen myself and heard from others--buying a "doc welfish" or API product or any of the dip-stick tests is like flushing your $ down the loo. These kits don't work, and aren't any cheaper than those that do. I KNOW that Tetra Test and Red Sea are pretty decent, and I'm sure there are others out there (I think Kent products are OK too). When I see that this is all the store uses themselves--even to test water for a customer--that's a bad sign in my book. You could test straight household ammonia with an API kit and it does NOTHING and is a waste of time and $. hope this info helps! Amanda No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 2/28/2008 12:14 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26212	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri

I have had a Golden Chinese Algae Eater in one of my community tanks since it was set up--so its going on seven years old. It is peaceful but territorial- -it only bothered the Corys which I wound up removing. It tends to protect a certain area of the tank from any other fish that want to pick off the bottom. The area it is possessive over is a patch of gravel..most of the tank has lots of plants and rockwork--it doesn't drive fish away from other areas even when it is grazing on algae outside its own territory. I have read some bad things about them, but mine is not aggressive and eager to eat anything. Spends most the day actively grazing on rocks, leaves and the side of the tank--even now that it is older and larger. Eats any flake or frozen food that falls to the bottom and likes a little bit of boiled egg yolk on occassion. Have never seen it take live foods so I wouldn't call it carniverous. Tom > > Does anyone actually put them in with other fish? They seem to cling to > some fish removing the 'coating' the a scaled fish has. Or am I missing > something. Everytime I'm looking for algae aeters the store's try and > push them off on me. I like the 'borneo' as they list it, I found it in > the book under 'hillstream loaches'. Little fella's for smaller tanks. > Anyone with experiance with either. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26213	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri

No on the loaches but I did just buy a Clown Pleco (Panaque maccus although Mongabay has Peckoltia pulcher so I need to do a little more research on their current scientific name) which only grows to around 4-5". They do not readily accept most regular foods so there needs to be a sufficient supply of algae and a piece of driftwood. Many algae eating fish will "attack" other fish if they get hungry enough. Most of them are actually omnivores so they need protein in their diets. So many people think they will survive strictly on algae and scraps that the fish begin to "starve" for protein and then go after slow moving wide-bodied fish like goldfish, angelfish, etc. If the "algae eater" is afforded a proper diet and fed after lights out (most of them are more nocturnal), they will usually leave other fish alone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 3:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri Does anyone actually put them in with other fish? They seem to cling to some fish removing the 'coating' the a scaled fish has. Or am I missing something. Everytime I'm looking for algae aeters the store's try and push them off on me. I like the 'borneo' as they list it, I found it in the book under 'hillstream loaches'. Little fella's for smaller tanks. Anyone with experiance with either. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 2/28/2008 12:14 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26214	From: joe t	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question

Hi, All: I am not arguing that the airlines should or should not allow the fish on the plane. I understand that security is tight and I surely would rather the security than to find out I may be sitting on a bomb. But I am asking more for edification, so maybe Gregg or someone into the airlines could answer. Why? What is wrong with carrying tropical fish? I am talking state to state, or city to city. I am fully aware that from another country they are afraid of disease, etc. joe t --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26215	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/29/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question

Two reasons that I can think of: They have a hard time telling if it's a round-bodied goldfish or a long-bodied goldfish wearing a gold colored suicide jacket. LOL They also have that 3 oz. of liquid rule and they may not be able to figure out that fish can't live in nitroglycerin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitroglycerin so to the airline folks, that could be a goldfish swimming around in a bag of nitro! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joe t Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 8:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Shipping question Hi, All: I am not arguing that the airlines should or should not allow the fish on the plane. I understand that security is tight and I surely would rather the security than to find out I may be sitting on a bomb. But I am asking more for edification, so maybe Gregg or someone into the airlines could answer. Why? What is wrong with carrying tropical fish? I am talking state to state, or city to city. I am fully aware that from another country they are afraid of disease, etc. joe t No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 2/28/2008 12:14 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26216	From: Blue fish	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C434D5B51454A425A445146445A515F4E ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C434D5B51454A425A445146445A515F4E Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C434D5B51454A425A445146445A515F4A Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26217	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Ghost Knife Fish

Someone on here recently said he/she had a Ghost Knife eating out of their hand. How did you manage that? I have one that's about 7 inches long in my 55 gallon tank and he spends most of his time behind and under the driftwood.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26218	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping question

Hi Joe, Well, there are a lot of airline rules that make little or no sense at all, such as their fare structures. I can't pretend to know why most carriers don t allow carry-on fish, but my educated guess is to prevent messes caused by spillage. Remember, most of the people making these rules are not "fish people," but bean counters focused on the bottom line and quick aircraft turnarounds. Anything unusual is anathema to them. If there is the slightest chance of something slowing down a flight being turned around for the next leg, it will be turned down flat. The only time a plane makes money is when it's in the air - any other time, it's costing money.    Gregg Bender Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26219	From: Andreas	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ghost Knife Fish

operant conditioning get long tweezers or a pipette that allows you to bring the food to him. feed him from that . slowly move the end of the tweezers higher and higher in the tank so he comes out to feed more and more. eventually he will come to the surface when he hears you by the tank A On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Gregg Bender <greggb57@...> wrote: > Someone on here recently said he/she had a Ghost Knife eating out of > their hand. How did you manage that? I have one that's about 7 inches > long in my 55 gallon tank and he spends most of his time behind and > under the driftwood. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26220	From: Debra	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Fresh vegetables

When using zuchini or other fresh vegetables as fish food - do you weight it down or let it float?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables

I use the little lead-composite strips that come on live plants as weights for the food if it has a tendency to float. I do blanch most veggies in the microwave first, let them cool a minute, then stick the lead strip through the piece, fold it over and drop it in. For broccoli florets (for my goldfish), I just drop them in and let the goldfish play rugby with it for a couple of hours. At least they are getting their exercise while trying to nibble the broccoli to the stalk. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fresh vegetables When using zuchini or other fresh vegetables as fish food - do you weight it down or let it float? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.2/1305 - Release Date: 2/29/2008 6:32 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26222	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables

My plecos eat cucumber and we use a little thing that you put it on, drop in and it floats to the bottom. We picked it up at walmar -----Original Message----- From: Debra <dmelton2@...> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fresh vegetables When using zuchini or other fresh vegetables as fish food - do you weight it down or let it float? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26223	From: Debra	Date: 3/1/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables

Great. Thank you. I have tons of those lead strips.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26224	From: judy_be	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: aquarium furniture

Anyone know of sources for aquarium tables other than PetsMart or Petco? I need one for a 20-gallon long, so the table should be around 32"x14". Thanks, Judy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26225	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: aquarium furniture

In a message dated 3/2/2008 7:27:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, tootsie2toes@... writes: Anyone know of sources for aquarium tables other than PetsMart or Petco? I need one for a 20-gallon long, so the table should be around 32"x14". Thanks, Judy Hi Judy: I've found them at thrift stores, flea markets, yard sales and auctions. Just depends how quickly you want one and your patience level. lol. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26226	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: aquarium furniture

Either BigAlsOnline.com or MarineDepot.com had them the last time I looked which was a couple of years ago. Look up "Aquarium Stand". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 7:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium furniture In a message dated 3/2/2008 7:27:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, tootsie2toes@... <mailto:tootsie2toes%40yahoo.com> writes: Anyone know of sources for aquarium tables other than PetsMart or Petco? I need one for a 20-gallon long, so the table should be around 32"x14". Thanks, Judy Hi Judy: I've found them at thrift stores, flea markets, yard sales and auctions. Just depends how quickly you want one and your patience level. lol. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26227	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: aquarium furniture

If you were to give your general location, someone may be able to direct you to another LFS other than those you mentioned to find aquarium stands. If you Google "aquarium stand" you will come up with a number of places where you can purchase aquarium stands as well as a number of sites that have build your own plans. Some people like furniture grade stands, others will do with cinder blocks and 2 x 4's or 2 x 6's. I prefer the wrought iron type stand for display, else I'll go for what I have hanging around or is readily available for those that only fish people will see. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judy_be Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 7:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium furniture Anyone know of sources for aquarium tables other than PetsMart or Petco? I need one for a 20-gallon long, so the table should be around 32"x14". Thanks, Judy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26228	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: aquarium furniture

One last thing. If you decide to buy from PetsMart, print their online page first and bring it to the store. The local stores will match the online prices. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] aquarium furniture If you were to give your general location, someone may be able to direct you to another LFS other than those you mentioned to find aquarium stands. If you Google "aquarium stand" you will come up with a number of places where you can purchase aquarium stands as well as a number of sites that have build your own plans. Some people like furniture grade stands, others will do with cinder blocks and 2 x 4's or 2 x 6's. I prefer the wrought iron type stand for display, else I'll go for what I have hanging around or is readily available for those that only fish people will see. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of judy_be Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 7:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium furniture Anyone know of sources for aquarium tables other than PetsMart or Petco? I need one for a 20-gallon long, so the table should be around 32"x14". Thanks, Judy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26229	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Siamese Algae Eaters

I've been pondering acquiring these for two years. My 125G is aquascaped with a lot of rockwork (no plants) for my mbuna. Rocks and background have some brush algae. My pH is 7.8. Can SAE be acclimated happily to these conditions? I've read that they like to be in groups, how many? Three? And do they need plants to thrive? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26230	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Siamese Algae Eaters

Would an SAE survive very long in an Mbuna tank? I've never kept them but I have read up on Mbuna a bit over the years and didn't think SAE's were suitable tank mates. Also, I thought Mbuna would eat algae. Not saying you are overfeeding, but maybe if you cut back on feedings a little, they'll start grazing on the algae. I just glanced at a couple of SAE profiles and the consensus is that they also prefer softer, acidic water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Siamese Algae Eaters I've been pondering acquiring these for two years. My 125G is aquascaped with a lot of rockwork (no plants) for my mbuna. Rocks and background have some brush algae. My pH is 7.8. Can SAE be acclimated happily to these conditions? I've read that they like to be in groups, how many? Three? And do they need plants to thrive? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26231	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Siamese Algae Eaters

People do keep them with mbuna, just wondering what odds of success are. You think the mbuna might be too aggressive? They usually ignore other species, but you never know which is why I'm asking. I had asked about SAE's in a 36" tank 2 years ago, but was told they were active swimmers and liked to be in groups. Thus now that we are talking about a 6 foot tank, I was hoping the answer might change. My mbuna eat algae, but don't "clean" it off. Rather they take a bite here and there. Only an occasional peck on the brush algae. I scrub it off once a year to so, and I'll be doing that within the next week. Big job, 250 pounds of rocks! I'm adding a couple of bristlenose, but they do green only. I don't care about the background, but like to see the rocks as they were chosen for an artistic display of the various colors of the minerals. From your "Chuck's Planted Tank" link re SAEs: They can tolerate pH from 5.5 to 8.0, but 6.5-7.0 is ideal. If a live cleaning crew is not an option, then I'll have to try Fluorish Excel. Supposedly if you turn off the filters, squirt it on the algae directly and let it sit for a few minutes, it kills brush algae. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Siamese Algae Eaters Would an SAE survive very long in an Mbuna tank? I've never kept them but I have read up on Mbuna a bit over the years and didn't think SAE's were suitable tank mates. Also, I thought Mbuna would eat algae. Not saying you are overfeeding, but maybe if you cut back on feedings a little, they'll start grazing on the algae. I just glanced at a couple of SAE profiles and the consensus is that they also prefer softer, acidic water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Siamese Algae Eaters I've been pondering acquiring these for two years. My 125G is aquascaped with a lot of rockwork (no plants) for my mbuna. Rocks and background have some brush algae. My pH is 7.8. Can SAE be acclimated happily to these conditions? I've read that they like to be in groups, how many? Three? And do they need plants to thrive? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26232	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Nitrates in the Aquarium

As those of you who have been around for a while know, I do not put much emphasis on the level of nitrates in freshwater systems. Over the last few years, there has been an increasing emphasis on reducing nitrates as much as possible in the freshwater aquarium. I do attribute this to the emphasis of very low nitrates in marine and reef aquaria, which is necessary to the health of the various critters found within, especially corals and anemones, and the EPA issuing regulations declaring that no public water supply should have more than 10 ppm of nitrate in the water they supply. I have seen many people come here frantic to reduce low amounts of nitrates (less than 60 ppm) because they thought they had a problem when they really did not. The fact is, that despite the EPA, many local water supplies have higher nitrate levels than the EPA claims to allow, which is then added to the aquarium during a water change. The nitrogen cycle in the aquarium also produces nitrates as an end product (not really the end of the cycle, but considered to be so for the aquarist). I have just finished reading an article by Tony Griffitts, which can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/33see9 (using TinyURL due to the length of the original link), that, more or less, backs what I have said here before, and will, undoubtedly say here in the future. His recommended limit is 100 ppm, while I go a bit higher. Given, in our imperfect world, we will always be faced with some amount of nitrate in our tanks, what can we do about it? First, let us take a look at where nitrate comes from. The two major sources have already been listed above. The major source should be your tank itself and the nitrogen cycle. An ancillary source would be your own tap water, hence one of the reasons we ask to get a baseline of your tap water with the test kits you are using. If you water is high in nitrates, you will immediately know that the tap water may be part of your problem. Once a tank is established, you should still be taking water tests, although at much longer intervals. If your nitrate is rising, the reason why it is so will need to be determined. Have you added more fish to your tank? Has a fish gone missing, and cannot be found? Has there been any other change in your aquarium? Has there been a change in your tap water? If you have a planted tank, are your plants no longer growing as they had been? Once the source of the increase has been found, a course of action can be determined. There is no real rush to fix this immediately, depending on the fish you are keeping--some are more sensitive than others to levels of nitrate, and their behavior should be a clue as to whether they are being affected or not. Unless your tap is the source, the remedy would be to do more frequent water changes, which should slowly decrease the amount of nitrates in your tank. If your tap water is the source, you will need to find an alternate source of water. If your tank does not have live plants, you can consider adding plants to your tank. It will take the plants a bit to become established and start using the nitrates in your tank as part of their diet. If the problem is a death, finding the remains will stop the nitrates from increasing, and the water changes will help bring it back to normal. If there was an increase in the population of the tank, whether it be fry that were born or an introduction of your own, you will need to make the determination if your tank can handle the additional load or if you need to move some fish to another tank. Just remember not to panic, take your time, and go through things in a logical manner to resolve your issue. And, as always, you can come here looking for further advice and counsel. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26233	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium

I have just acquired some Synodontis Multipunctatus, they are in a quarantine tank. I shudder to think what they would do at 100ppm Nitrate.at 30ppm they start to get twitchy and swim against the glass walls of the tank in the current from the filter instead of the bottom. As soon as I do a PWC they go back to normal. Do you find the Africans to be more sensitive? I have read that myself, but these Multi's are the first experience I have had of it. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrates in the Aquarium As those of you who have been around for a while know, I do not put much emphasis on the level of nitrates in freshwater systems. Over the last few years, there has been an increasing emphasis on reducing nitrates as much as possible in the freshwater aquarium. I do attribute this to the emphasis of very low nitrates in marine and reef aquaria, which is necessary to the health of the various critters found within, especially corals and anemones, and the EPA issuing regulations declaring that no public water supply should have more than 10 ppm of nitrate in the water they supply. I have seen many people come here frantic to reduce low amounts of nitrates (less than 60 ppm) because they thought they had a problem when they really did not. The fact is, that despite the EPA, many local water supplies have higher nitrate levels than the EPA claims to allow, which is then added to the aquarium during a water change. The nitrogen cycle in the aquarium also produces nitrates as an end product (not really the end of the cycle, but considered to be so for the aquarist). I have just finished reading an article by Tony Griffitts, which can be found here: http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/33see9> com/33see9 (using TinyURL due to the length of the original link), that, more or less, backs what I have said here before, and will, undoubtedly say here in the future. His recommended limit is 100 ppm, while I go a bit higher. Given, in our imperfect world, we will always be faced with some amount of nitrate in our tanks, what can we do about it? First, let us take a look at where nitrate comes from. The two major sources have already been listed above. The major source should be your tank itself and the nitrogen cycle. An ancillary source would be your own tap water, hence one of the reasons we ask to get a baseline of your tap water with the test kits you are using. If you water is high in nitrates, you will immediately know that the tap water may be part of your problem. Once a tank is established, you should still be taking water tests, although at much longer intervals. If your nitrate is rising, the reason why it is so will need to be determined. Have you added more fish to your tank? Has a fish gone missing, and cannot be found? Has there been any other change in your aquarium? Has there been a change in your tap water? If you have a planted tank, are your plants no longer growing as they had been? Once the source of the increase has been found, a course of action can be determined. There is no real rush to fix this immediately, depending on the fish you are keeping--some are more sensitive than others to levels of nitrate, and their behavior should be a clue as to whether they are being affected or not. Unless your tap is the source, the remedy would be to do more frequent water changes, which should slowly decrease the amount of nitrates in your tank. If your tap water is the source, you will need to find an alternate source of water. If your tank does not have live plants, you can consider adding plants to your tank. It will take the plants a bit to become established and start using the nitrates in your tank as part of their diet. If the problem is a death, finding the remains will stop the nitrates from increasing, and the water changes will help bring it back to normal. If there was an increase in the population of the tank, whether it be fry that were born or an introduction of your own, you will need to make the determination if your tank can handle the additional load or if you need to move some fish to another tank. Just remember not to panic, take your time, and go through things in a logical manner to resolve your issue. And, as always, you can come here looking for further advice and counsel. \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26234	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium

Hi Steve, This is a lot of good info as well as the link. I just wanted to interject that for those who are fighting a water supply that is not normal, what I have done and have been doing is to have a small bank of Brita water filters that all the water that goes into my two tanks go through. The exception would be when I have to put water back when using the Python water vacuum tube that hooks to the faucet. I guess I could build up a reserve of water for that too but I don't have that bad of water as I have tested it. Another thing a person could do is store water in a slightly open container to allow chlorines and other chemicals to exchange out into the air for a few days or a week, that way it is less of a difference than water directly from the faucet. There are chemical additives but I am not sure what they are exchanging for what not being a chemist. Do you also consider the regenerable filter media called Purgen for additional filtration? Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Steve Szabo wrote: > > As those of you who have been around for a while know, I do not put much > emphasis on the level of nitrates in freshwater systems. Over the last > few years, there has been an increasing emphasis on reducing nitrates as > much as possible in the freshwater aquarium. I do attribute this to the > emphasis of very low nitrates in marine and reef aquaria, which is > necessary to the health of the various critters found within, especially > corals and anemones, and the EPA issuing regulations declaring that no > public water supply should have more than 10 ppm of nitrate in the water > they supply. I have seen many people come here frantic to reduce low > amounts of nitrates (less than 60 ppm) because they thought they had a > problem when they really did not. > > The fact is, that despite the EPA, many local water supplies have higher > nitrate levels than the EPA claims to allow, which is then added to the > aquarium during a water change. The nitrogen cycle in the aquarium also > produces nitrates as an end product (not really the end of the cycle, > but considered to be so for the aquarist). > > I have just finished reading an article by Tony Griffitts, which can be > found here: http://tinyurl.com/33see9 <http://tinyurl.com/33see9> > (using TinyURL due to the length > of the original link), that, more or less, backs what I have said here > before, and will, undoubtedly say here in the future. His recommended > limit is 100 ppm, while I go a bit higher. > > Given, in our imperfect world, we will always be faced with some amount > of nitrate in our tanks, what can we do about it? > > First, let us take a look at where nitrate comes from. The two major > sources have already been listed above. The major source should be your > tank itself and the nitrogen cycle. An ancillary source would be your > own tap water, hence one of the reasons we ask to get a baseline of your > tap water with the test kits you are using. If you water is high in > nitrates, you will immediately know that the tap water may be part of > your problem. > > Once a tank is established, you should still be taking water tests, > although at much longer intervals. If your nitrate is rising, the reason > why it is so will need to be determined. Have you added more fish to > your tank? Has a fish gone missing, and cannot be found? Has there been > any other change in your aquarium? Has there been a change in your tap > water? If you have a planted tank, are your plants no longer growing as > they had been? Once the source of the increase has been found, a course > of action can be determined. There is no real rush to fix this > immediately, depending on the fish you are keeping--some are more > sensitive than others to levels of nitrate, and their behavior should be > a clue as to whether they are being affected or not. > > Unless your tap is the source, the remedy would be to do more frequent > water changes, which should slowly decrease the amount of nitrates in > your tank. If your tap water is the source, you will need to find an > alternate source of water. If your tank does not have live plants, you > can consider adding plants to your tank. It will take the plants a bit > to become established and start using the nitrates in your tank as part > of their diet. > > If the problem is a death, finding the remains will stop the nitrates > from increasing, and the water changes will help bring it back to > normal. > > If there was an increase in the population of the tank, whether it be > fry that were born or an introduction of your own, you will need to make > the determination if your tank can handle the additional load or if you > need to move some fish to another tank. > > Just remember not to panic, take your time, and go through things in a > logical manner to resolve your issue. And, as always, you can come here > looking for further advice and counsel. > > \\Steve// > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26235	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium

That is why I have the disclaimer that some fish ARE more sensitive than others. _ Mikrogeophagus ramirezi_ is pretty sensitive to high levels of nitrate. It is a South American cichlid. It is more on a case by case basis. However cichlids are more prone to problems with high nitrate levels, as a general rule--meaning those over 100 ppm. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates in the Aquarium I have just acquired some Synodontis Multipunctatus, they are in a quarantine tank. I shudder to think what they would do at 100ppm Nitrate.at 30ppm they start to get twitchy and swim against the glass walls of the tank in the current from the filter instead of the bottom. As soon as I do a PWC they go back to normal. Do you find the Africans to be more sensitive? I have read that myself, but these Multi's are the first experience I have had of it. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrates in the Aquarium As those of you who have been around for a while know, I do not put much emphasis on the level of nitrates in freshwater systems. Over the last few years, there has been an increasing emphasis on reducing nitrates as much as possible in the freshwater aquarium. I do attribute this to the emphasis of very low nitrates in marine and reef aquaria, which is necessary to the health of the various critters found within, especially corals and anemones, and the EPA issuing regulations declaring that no public water supply should have more than 10 ppm of nitrate in the water they supply. I have seen many people come here frantic to reduce low amounts of nitrates (less than 60 ppm) because they thought they had a problem when they really did not. The fact is, that despite the EPA, many local water supplies have higher nitrate levels than the EPA claims to allow, which is then added to the aquarium during a water change. The nitrogen cycle in the aquarium also produces nitrates as an end product (not really the end of the cycle, but considered to be so for the aquarist). I have just finished reading an article by Tony Griffitts, which can be found here: http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/33see9> com/33see9 (using TinyURL due to the length of the original link), that, more or less, backs what I have said here before, and will, undoubtedly say here in the future. His recommended limit is 100 ppm, while I go a bit higher. Given, in our imperfect world, we will always be faced with some amount of nitrate in our tanks, what can we do about it? First, let us take a look at where nitrate comes from. The two major sources have already been listed above. The major source should be your tank itself and the nitrogen cycle. An ancillary source would be your own tap water, hence one of the reasons we ask to get a baseline of your tap water with the test kits you are using. If you water is high in nitrates, you will immediately know that the tap water may be part of your problem. Once a tank is established, you should still be taking water tests, although at much longer intervals. If your nitrate is rising, the reason why it is so will need to be determined. Have you added more fish to your tank? Has a fish gone missing, and cannot be found? Has there been any other change in your aquarium? Has there been a change in your tap water? If you have a planted tank, are your plants no longer growing as they had been? Once the source of the increase has been found, a course of action can be determined. There is no real rush to fix this immediately, depending on the fish you are keeping--some are more sensitive than others to levels of nitrate, and their behavior should be a clue as to whether they are being affected or not. Unless your tap is the source, the remedy would be to do more frequent water changes, which should slowly decrease the amount of nitrates in your tank. If your tap water is the source, you will need to find an alternate source of water. If your tank does not have live plants, you can consider adding plants to your tank. It will take the plants a bit to become established and start using the nitrates in your tank as part of their diet. If the problem is a death, finding the remains will stop the nitrates from increasing, and the water changes will help bring it back to normal. If there was an increase in the population of the tank, whether it be fry that were born or an introduction of your own, you will need to make the determination if your tank can handle the additional load or if you need to move some fish to another tank. Just remember not to panic, take your time, and go through things in a logical manner to resolve your issue. And, as always, you can come here looking for further advice and counsel. \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26236	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium

I am not familiar with Purgen, though I have heard of it. There are all kinds of water "purification" equipment and schemes out there. If one is just running a single tank, or maybe two, one would need to consider the costs associated with using filtration methods or reverse osmosis, or getting water from another source that may be "better" water for your fish. The important thing to remember, as Arthur Dent was reminded many times, is don't panic. In this case, running out looking for cure-alls that may resolve your perceived emergency that may actually make things worse. If you absolutely need to do something about your problem, be it nitrates or something else, DO A PARTIAL WATER CHANGE. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates in the Aquarium Hi Steve, This is a lot of good info as well as the link. I just wanted to interject that for those who are fighting a water supply that is not normal, what I have done and have been doing is to have a small bank of Brita water filters that all the water that goes into my two tanks go through. The exception would be when I have to put water back when using the Python water vacuum tube that hooks to the faucet. I guess I could build up a reserve of water for that too but I don't have that bad of water as I have tested it. Another thing a person could do is store water in a slightly open container to allow chlorines and other chemicals to exchange out into the air for a few days or a week, that way it is less of a difference than water directly from the faucet. There are chemical additives but I am not sure what they are exchanging for what not being a chemist. Do you also consider the regenerable filter media called Purgen for additional filtration? Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Steve Szabo wrote: > > As those of you who have been around for a while know, I do not put much > emphasis on the level of nitrates in freshwater systems. Over the last > few years, there has been an increasing emphasis on reducing nitrates as > much as possible in the freshwater aquarium. I do attribute this to the > emphasis of very low nitrates in marine and reef aquaria, which is > necessary to the health of the various critters found within, especially > corals and anemones, and the EPA issuing regulations declaring that no > public water supply should have more than 10 ppm of nitrate in the water > they supply. I have seen many people come here frantic to reduce low > amounts of nitrates (less than 60 ppm) because they thought they had a > problem when they really did not. > > The fact is, that despite the EPA, many local water supplies have higher > nitrate levels than the EPA claims to allow, which is then added to the > aquarium during a water change. The nitrogen cycle in the aquarium also > produces nitrates as an end product (not really the end of the cycle, > but considered to be so for the aquarist). > > I have just finished reading an article by Tony Griffitts, which can be > found here: http://tinyurl.com/33see9 <http://tinyurl.com/33see9> > (using TinyURL due to the length > of the original link), that, more or less, backs what I have said here > before, and will, undoubtedly say here in the future. His recommended > limit is 100 ppm, while I go a bit higher. > > Given, in our imperfect world, we will always be faced with some amount > of nitrate in our tanks, what can we do about it? > > First, let us take a look at where nitrate comes from. The two major > sources have already been listed above. The major source should be your > tank itself and the nitrogen cycle. An ancillary source would be your > own tap water, hence one of the reasons we ask to get a baseline of your > tap water with the test kits you are using. If you water is high in > nitrates, you will immediately know that the tap water may be part of > your problem. > > Once a tank is established, you should still be taking water tests, > although at much longer intervals. If your nitrate is rising, the reason > why it is so will need to be determined. Have you added more fish to > your tank? Has a fish gone missing, and cannot be found? Has there been > any other change in your aquarium? Has there been a change in your tap > water? If you have a planted tank, are your plants no longer growing as > they had been? Once the source of the increase has been found, a course > of action can be determined. There is no real rush to fix this > immediately, depending on the fish you are keeping--some are more > sensitive than others to levels of nitrate, and their behavior should be > a clue as to whether they are being affected or not. > > Unless your tap is the source, the remedy would be to do more frequent > water changes, which should slowly decrease the amount of nitrates in > your tank. If your tap water is the source, you will need to find an > alternate source of water. If your tank does not have live plants, you > can consider adding plants to your tank. It will take the plants a bit > to become established and start using the nitrates in your tank as part > of their diet. > > If the problem is a death, finding the remains will stop the nitrates > from increasing, and the water changes will help bring it back to > normal. > > If there was an increase in the population of the tank, whether it be > fry that were born or an introduction of your own, you will need to make > the determination if your tank can handle the additional load or if you > need to move some fish to another tank. > > Just remember not to panic, take your time, and go through things in a > logical manner to resolve your issue. And, as always, you can come here > looking for further advice and counsel. > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26237	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium

I would agree with this very much and have come across plenty of people who start to panic once the nitrates hit 20 :-s. It does not help that many books and magazines suggest 25 to be a higher limit but then they have completely generalized. My tanks also sit at 60 nitrates getting water changes once every 2 months but then I also have plenty of plants to combat water quality. Nim From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: 02 March 2008 20:05 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates in the Aquarium The important thing to remember, as Arthur Dent was reminded many times, is don't panic. In this case, running out looking for cure-alls that may resolve your perceived emergency that may actually make things worse. If you absolutely need to do something about your problem, be it nitrates or something else, DO A PARTIAL WATER CHANGE. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates in the Aquarium Hi Steve, This is a lot of good info as well as the link. I just wanted to interject that for those who are fighting a water supply that is not normal, what I have done and have been doing is to have a small bank of Brita water filters that all the water that goes into my two tanks go through. The exception would be when I have to put water back when using the Python water vacuum tube that hooks to the faucet. I guess I could build up a reserve of water for that too but I don't have that bad of water as I have tested it. Another thing a person could do is store water in a slightly open container to allow chlorines and other chemicals to exchange out into the air for a few days or a week, that way it is less of a difference than water directly from the faucet. There are chemical additives but I am not sure what they are exchanging for what not being a chemist. Do you also consider the regenerable filter media called Purgen for additional filtration? Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Steve Szabo wrote: > > As those of you who have been around for a while know, I do not put much > emphasis on the level of nitrates in freshwater systems. Over the last > few years, there has been an increasing emphasis on reducing nitrates as > much as possible in the freshwater aquarium. I do attribute this to the > emphasis of very low nitrates in marine and reef aquaria, which is > necessary to the health of the various critters found within, especially > corals and anemones, and the EPA issuing regulations declaring that no > public water supply should have more than 10 ppm of nitrate in the water > they supply. I have seen many people come here frantic to reduce low > amounts of nitrates (less than 60 ppm) because they thought they had a > problem when they really did not. > > The fact is, that despite the EPA, many local water supplies have higher > nitrate levels than the EPA claims to allow, which is then added to the > aquarium during a water change. The nitrogen cycle in the aquarium also > produces nitrates as an end product (not really the end of the cycle, > but considered to be so for the aquarist). > > I have just finished reading an article by Tony Griffitts, which can be > found here: http://tinyurl.com/33see9 <http://tinyurl.com/33see9> > (using TinyURL due to the length > of the original link), that, more or less, backs what I have said here > before, and will, undoubtedly say here in the future. His recommended > limit is 100 ppm, while I go a bit higher. > > Given, in our imperfect world, we will always be faced with some amount > of nitrate in our tanks, what can we do about it? > > First, let us take a look at where nitrate comes from. The two major > sources have already been listed above. The major source should be your > tank itself and the nitrogen cycle. An ancillary source would be your > own tap water, hence one of the reasons we ask to get a baseline of your > tap water with the test kits you are using. If you water is high in > nitrates, you will immediately know that the tap water may be part of > your problem. > > Once a tank is established, you should still be taking water tests, > although at much longer intervals. If your nitrate is rising, the reason > why it is so will need to be determined. Have you added more fish to > your tank? Has a fish gone missing, and cannot be found? Has there been > any other change in your aquarium? Has there been a change in your tap > water? If you have a planted tank, are your plants no longer growing as > they had been? Once the source of the increase has been found, a course > of action can be determined. There is no real rush to fix this > immediately, depending on the fish you are keeping--some are more > sensitive than others to levels of nitrate, and their behavior should be > a clue as to whether they are being affected or not. > > Unless your tap is the source, the remedy would be to do more frequent > water changes, which should slowly decrease the amount of nitrates in > your tank. If your tap water is the source, you will need to find an > alternate source of water. If your tank does not have live plants, you > can consider adding plants to your tank. It will take the plants a bit > to become established and start using the nitrates in your tank as part > of their diet. > > If the problem is a death, finding the remains will stop the nitrates > from increasing, and the water changes will help bring it back to > normal. > > If there was an increase in the population of the tank, whether it be > fry that were born or an introduction of your own, you will need to make > the determination if your tank can handle the additional load or if you > need to move some fish to another tank. > > Just remember not to panic, take your time, and go through things in a > logical manner to resolve your issue. And, as always, you can come here > looking for further advice and counsel. > > \\Steve// > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26238	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium

Excellent article Steve and I couldn't agree more. I have always felt that people have been panicking over Nitrates. I have never been able to get my Nitrates below about 15ppm and most times my tanks have been between 20 - 30ppm. I have never felt that this amount of nitrates were harming my fish. However when I have gone away and found that the Nitrates have risen to 100ppm while I was on Vacation or trip, that the fish seemed to be stressed a little. Since I have all Mbuna Africans at about 100ppm I have found that the fish seemed to a little more aggressive. So I have basically made my own goal to keep my Nitrates at 60ppm or lower. John in Nevada Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: As those of you who have been around for a while know, I do not put much emphasis on the level of nitrates in freshwater systems. Over the last few years, there has been an increasing emphasis on reducing nitrates as much as possible in the freshwater aquarium. I do attribute this to the emphasis of very low nitrates in marine and reef aquaria, which is necessary to the health of the various critters found within, especially corals and anemones, and the EPA issuing regulations declaring that no public water supply should have more than 10 ppm of nitrate in the water they supply. I have seen many people come here frantic to reduce low amounts of nitrates (less than 60 ppm) because they thought they had a problem when they really did not. The fact is, that despite the EPA, many local water supplies have higher nitrate levels than the EPA claims to allow, which is then added to the aquarium during a water change. The nitrogen cycle in the aquarium also produces nitrates as an end product (not really the end of the cycle, but considered to be so for the aquarist). I have just finished reading an article by Tony Griffitts, which can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/33see9 (using TinyURL due to the length of the original link), that, more or less, backs what I have said here before, and will, undoubtedly say here in the future. His recommended limit is 100 ppm, while I go a bit higher. Given, in our imperfect world, we will always be faced with some amount of nitrate in our tanks, what can we do about it? First, let us take a look at where nitrate comes from. The two major sources have already been listed above. The major source should be your tank itself and the nitrogen cycle. An ancillary source would be your own tap water, hence one of the reasons we ask to get a baseline of your tap water with the test kits you are using. If you water is high in nitrates, you will immediately know that the tap water may be part of your problem. Once a tank is established, you should still be taking water tests, although at much longer intervals. If your nitrate is rising, the reason why it is so will need to be determined. Have you added more fish to your tank? Has a fish gone missing, and cannot be found? Has there been any other change in your aquarium? Has there been a change in your tap water? If you have a planted tank, are your plants no longer growing as they had been? Once the source of the increase has been found, a course of action can be determined. There is no real rush to fix this immediately, depending on the fish you are keeping--some are more sensitive than others to levels of nitrate, and their behavior should be a clue as to whether they are being affected or not. Unless your tap is the source, the remedy would be to do more frequent water changes, which should slowly decrease the amount of nitrates in your tank. If your tap water is the source, you will need to find an alternate source of water. If your tank does not have live plants, you can consider adding plants to your tank. It will take the plants a bit to become established and start using the nitrates in your tank as part of their diet. If the problem is a death, finding the remains will stop the nitrates from increasing, and the water changes will help bring it back to normal. If there was an increase in the population of the tank, whether it be fry that were born or an introduction of your own, you will need to make the determination if your tank can handle the additional load or if you need to move some fish to another tank. Just remember not to panic, take your time, and go through things in a logical manner to resolve your issue. And, as always, you can come here looking for further advice and counsel. \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26239	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Ghost Knife Fish

Thanks, Andreas! I'll give that a try. He already associates me with food...he's just stubborn.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26240	From: William J. Scott	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: aquarium furniture

Check Wal Mart. They carry Stands for 20's Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: judy_be Date: 3/2/2008 4:19:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium furniture Anyone know of sources for aquarium tables other than PetsMart or Petco? I need one for a 20-gallon long, so the table should be around 32"x14". Thanks, Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26241	From: Tina	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: new and I have a question

Hello, I am new to the group. I have only just begun my aquarist adventure. I set up my tank in November. It is a 20 gal long tank. It is pretty simple. I have it set up with fresh water tropical fish. I have the temp at 72-74 degrees. I have a whisper filter with bone charcoal I purchase from my local fish store. Honestly I am not sure of all of the names of my fish. I will do my best to name them all. My question, however, is how do you just lose a fish? I am missing one of my cat fish. It is just gone. I even removed all of my decorations from the tank and took apart the filter. The fish is just gone. It was there yesterday, I am 99.9% positive it was there. I try to make sure I check the temp, count them, and watch them when I feed them. They are just neat to watch. Well, as I was doing my usual routine today I noticed it was MIA. SO, I thought to jump on here and see what you all thought. Here is the list of the fish I currently have: 2 sunset gourami 2 glow red zebra 1 platy (it's partner died in the beginning) 1 little light pink guy but I can't remember what it's called, kind of roundish/oval. 1 (was 2) cat fish 2 algae eaters 2 other little silvery pinkish fish about 1inch long oval top feeder. I know these are terrible descriptions. I lost my slip with all of their names. The other thing I want to mention is that my tank is clean. The water has been tested just this past week. I don't have really any algae. SO, I am wondering if one of those algae eaters decided to dine on my catfish. What do you think? The woman at the store, whose been doing this since I was little, at least 25 years set me up with all of the fish. She and her employee hand picked the fish that would be good together in the tank. The cat fish were the last to be introduced. I think they've been in there for just over two weeks. Thanks for your help. If there is any other info I should give let me know. Also, if you know of any good sites that have pictures with the names of the fish could you let me know so I can try to re- identify these guys? Thanks, Tina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26242	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Siamese Algae Eaters

The other thing you can do is use Hydrogen Peroxide (HP) squirted directly onto the algae with a syringe. It's probably a lot cheaper than Flourish Excel. Here's a "old" thread from the old bulletin board days, about using HP on algae. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html I've used HP on some hair algae and it worked. HP is H2O2 so it's basically water (H2O) with an extra Oxygen molecule which is what causes the bubbling when it oxidizes. Something about the oxidation from the extra O molecule that has an effect on breaking down the cell walls on simple organisms like bacteria, algae, etc. Once it oxidizes, it basically becomes water. Used in the doses recommended in that thread, it will not harm your fish as long as you do not squirt the HP directly onto the fish. Just shoo them away prior to squirting. The HP dilutes with the water almost immediately so it won't do any harm once it's in the water column. Most store bought HP is only 3% solution anyhow so when you mix only an ounce of that with 10G of water, it's almost negligible. They actually sell HP tablets for people with ponds, when they are having low oxygen problems in their ponds due to high temperatures. Also for ponds, people add barley straw to combat algae problems and as the barley straw breaks down, it releases HP, which is what helps eradicate the algae. Now back to algae eating fish... do some Googling or read thru some threads about 'Mbuna and algae eaters' to see what you can find out. I know I've read where the algae eaters will not go near the territories of the Mbuna as they will be attacked so having one in the tank kind of defeats the purpose if they won't go near the rocks where the Mbuna have established as their territory. I've even read of Mbuna killing and eating a common pleco down to the bones.... even though they are supposed to be herbivores but sometimes I'm not sure fish read the same books or online info that we do. I'm sure that may be a rare occasion but if a pleco which is an armored catfish can succumb to Mbuna, then you definitely have to be careful about which un-armored algae eaters you may introduce. Actually, while typing this reply, I did a Google search for 'mbuna and algae eater' and the top hit was "Poll - The BEST algae eater for Mbuna Tank - Page 2" so check out the entire thread to see what they have to say about it. http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=3871&page=2 (Click on Page 1 as soon as you get to that Page 2) A quick glance at the Poll shows SAE's at the bottom of the list with the Bristlenose Pleco at the top and the Common Pleco 2nd but I would worry about either of them in the harder, higher pH water. Here's another article about suitable algae eating fish for Mbuna tanks. http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Siamese Algae Eaters People do keep them with mbuna, just wondering what odds of success are. You think the mbuna might be too aggressive? They usually ignore other species, but you never know which is why I'm asking. I had asked about SAE's in a 36" tank 2 years ago, but was told they were active swimmers and liked to be in groups. Thus now that we are talking about a 6 foot tank, I was hoping the answer might change. My mbuna eat algae, but don't "clean" it off. Rather they take a bite here and there. Only an occasional peck on the brush algae. I scrub it off once a year to so, and I'll be doing that within the next week. Big job, 250 pounds of rocks! I'm adding a couple of bristlenose, but they do green only. I don't care about the background, but like to see the rocks as they were chosen for an artistic display of the various colors of the minerals. From your "Chuck's Planted Tank" link re SAEs: They can tolerate pH from 5.5 to 8.0, but 6.5-7.0 is ideal. If a live cleaning crew is not an option, then I'll have to try Fluorish Excel. Supposedly if you turn off the filters, squirt it on the algae directly and let it sit for a few minutes, it kills brush algae. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Siamese Algae Eaters Would an SAE survive very long in an Mbuna tank? I've never kept them but I have read up on Mbuna a bit over the years and didn't think SAE's were suitable tank mates. Also, I thought Mbuna would eat algae. Not saying you are overfeeding, but maybe if you cut back on feedings a little, they'll start grazing on the algae. I just glanced at a couple of SAE profiles and the consensus is that they also prefer softer, acidic water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Siamese Algae Eaters I've been pondering acquiring these for two years. My 125G is aquascaped with a lot of rockwork (no plants) for my mbuna. Rocks and background have some brush algae. My pH is 7.8. Can SAE be acclimated happily to these conditions? I've read that they like to be in groups, how many? Three? And do they need plants to thrive? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26243	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium (now a little more about Purigen)

Steve, Purigen is a not one of the "schemes" that we see so often in the aquaria world. It is merely a chemical filtration media made by SeaChem and it's basically just a newer advanced form of chemical filtration, except that it's white and turns dark brown as it gets "dirty". Then you can just soak it 24 hours in a 50/50 bleach/water solution to "clean" it. Then soak it another 24 hours in a 8 oz. water / 2 oz. dechlor solution and it's ready to go back in the filter (see other step below that may be needed for some users). According to SeaChem (I haven't found any independent testing), it's 500 times more capable of removing TDS', DOC's, etc., when compared to regular carbon and it will also remove some nitrates. Although it's white in color, it's not a zeolite type product so it does not remove ammonia so it will not affect the size of your nitrifying bacteria colony like zeolite does. You can get it in bulk and fill your own filter media bags or buy it in a pre-packaged filter bag suitable for up to 100G tanks. I have been keeping two of them running in my 65G goldfish tank for the past two years and have recharged them both many times and they still seem to be working fine. Of course, the SeaChem instructions also recommend soaking the cleaned and dechlored packet in some buffer up type solution that they sell, but I have not found the need for that in my tank since I have moderately hard water already. They only recommend the buffer up process when using Purigen in FW tanks which is why I think it mainly needs to be done with lower GH/KH water since SW tanks will not have that problem. From what I understand, if you have low GH water, you need to soak the cleaned Purigen in the buffer up solution. I think I documented my testing on my filter cleaning and maintenance page on my blog. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/notice-this-article-is-very-important. html After I cleaned and dechlored a used package of Purigen, I put it in a gallon of dechlored tap water that had been sitting out for the two days also. I tested the GH/KH/pH after the two days and then added the package of Purigen and regularly stirred the water every hour or so when I was home. After two days of the Purigen in the tap water, my GH/KH and pH remained the same level. If someone has softer or lower pH water, they should do their own testing or just use the buffer up soak as recommended by SeaChem to avoid a potential problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates in the Aquarium I am not familiar with Purgen, though I have heard of it. There are all kinds of water "purification" equipment and schemes out there. If one is just running a single tank, or maybe two, one would need to consider the costs associated with using filtration methods or reverse osmosis, or getting water from another source that may be "better" water for your fish. The important thing to remember, as Arthur Dent was reminded many times, is don't panic. In this case, running out looking for cure-alls that may resolve your perceived emergency that may actually make things worse. If you absolutely need to do something about your problem, be it nitrates or something else, DO A PARTIAL WATER CHANGE. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates in the Aquarium Hi Steve, This is a lot of good info as well as the link. I just wanted to interject that for those who are fighting a water supply that is not normal, what I have done and have been doing is to have a small bank of Brita water filters that all the water that goes into my two tanks go through. The exception would be when I have to put water back when using the Python water vacuum tube that hooks to the faucet. I guess I could build up a reserve of water for that too but I don't have that bad of water as I have tested it. Another thing a person could do is store water in a slightly open container to allow chlorines and other chemicals to exchange out into the air for a few days or a week, that way it is less of a difference than water directly from the faucet. There are chemical additives but I am not sure what they are exchanging for what not being a chemist. Do you also consider the regenerable filter media called Purgen for additional filtration? Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Steve Szabo wrote: > > As those of you who have been around for a while know, I do not put much > emphasis on the level of nitrates in freshwater systems. Over the last > few years, there has been an increasing emphasis on reducing nitrates as > much as possible in the freshwater aquarium. I do attribute this to the > emphasis of very low nitrates in marine and reef aquaria, which is > necessary to the health of the various critters found within, especially > corals and anemones, and the EPA issuing regulations declaring that no > public water supply should have more than 10 ppm of nitrate in the water > they supply. I have seen many people come here frantic to reduce low > amounts of nitrates (less than 60 ppm) because they thought they had a > problem when they really did not. > > The fact is, that despite the EPA, many local water supplies have higher > nitrate levels than the EPA claims to allow, which is then added to the > aquarium during a water change. The nitrogen cycle in the aquarium also > produces nitrates as an end product (not really the end of the cycle, > but considered to be so for the aquarist). > > I have just finished reading an article by Tony Griffitts, which can be > found here: http://tinyurl.com/33see9 <http://tinyurl.com/33see9> > <http://tinyurl.com/33see9 <http://tinyurl.com/33see9> > (using > TinyURL due to the length of the original link), that, more or less, > backs what I have said here before, and will, undoubtedly say here in > the future. His recommended limit is 100 ppm, while I go a bit higher. > > Given, in our imperfect world, we will always be faced with some amount > of nitrate in our tanks, what can we do about it? > > First, let us take a look at where nitrate comes from. The two major > sources have already been listed above. The major source should be your > tank itself and the nitrogen cycle. An ancillary source would be your > own tap water, hence one of the reasons we ask to get a baseline of your > tap water with the test kits you are using. If you water is high in > nitrates, you will immediately know that the tap water may be part of > your problem. > > Once a tank is established, you should still be taking water tests, > although at much longer intervals. If your nitrate is rising, the reason > why it is so will need to be determined. Have you added more fish to > your tank? Has a fish gone missing, and cannot be found? Has there been > any other change in your aquarium? Has there been a change in your tap > water? If you have a planted tank, are your plants no longer growing as > they had been? Once the source of the increase has been found, a course > of action can be determined. There is no real rush to fix this > immediately, depending on the fish you are keeping--some are more > sensitive than others to levels of nitrate, and their behavior should be > a clue as to whether they are being affected or not. > > Unless your tap is the source, the remedy would be to do more frequent > water changes, which should slowly decrease the amount of nitrates in > your tank. If your tap water is the source, you will need to find an > alternate source of water. If your tank does not have live plants, you > can consider adding plants to your tank. It will take the plants a bit > to become established and start using the nitrates in your tank as part > of their diet. > > If the problem is a death, finding the remains will stop the nitrates > from increasing, and the water changes will help bring it back to > normal. > > If there was an increase in the population of the tank, whether it be > fry that were born or an introduction of your own, you will need to make > the determination if your tank can handle the additional load or if you > need to move some fish to another tank. > > Just remember not to panic, take your time, and go through things in a > logical manner to resolve your issue. And, as always, you can come here > looking for further advice and counsel. > > \\Steve// > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26244	From: babsdvs	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Bottled water

Does bottled water (either sold or dispensed at the grocery store) do any harm when used for PWC? Barbara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26245	From: Tina Stawicki	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: new and I have a question

OOPS! I said that the catfish were the newest addition to the tank. It was the algae eaters that were added two weeks ago. Sorry about that. Tina <tmstew28@...> wrote: Hello, I am new to the group. I have only just begun my aquarist adventure. I set up my tank in November. It is a 20 gal long tank. It is pretty simple.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Bottled water

Depends. Bottle water can be distilled, which isn't good for a normal PWC. It can be filtered spring water, which could be good unless they over filtered it. It can be filtered public utility water which could be good unless they over filtered it. I think it's an expensive option that isn't necessary in most cases. Now if you have a Betta on your desk at work, or something like that, then I guess using bottled spring water from the office would be OK if you don't want to keep a dechlor product around. You should probably contact the bottle water maker to find out what is and isn't in their water and test the pH, GH & KH to find out what those parameters are to see if it's suitable for your fish. One last caution... according to some consumer reports, some bottled waters are plain old tap water with nothing done to it so those companies are basically defrauding people. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 6:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bottled water Does bottled water (either sold or dispensed at the grocery store) do any harm when used for PWC? Barbara No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26247	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: new and I have a question

First thing as you likely already know, you need to find out what kind of unidentified fish you have. Go back to the store where you bought them and look for them in the tanks and find out what they are. Second, it's a good idea to test your water on a regular basis when you first get started in the hobby until you "learn" the basics and what is needed to keep your tank in good condition. You can get a decent master test kit for under $20.00 which should have at least the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. If you can get one with GH and KH also, that would be even better. Give us your test results in numbers as soon as possible. If you can't get a master test kit right now, ask your fish store if they can test your water (usually for free) and write down the numbers for us... not just "He said it was OK" as we don't know if "he" knows what he's talking about. LOL From what you have posted, you have some potential issues and/or problems. I'm guessing the Glow Red Zebra's are Red Glofish Zebra Danios which are just regular zebra danio's which have been genetically engineered to have the day-glo color pigmentation. I think they come in red, green and orange. More info can be found about them at http://www.glofish.com/ They need to be cared for just like regular Zebra Danios. They should be in schools of at least six, so you need to work on getting four more as soon as possible, with at least two females for each male to minimize aggression during mating periods. Here's a good profile on them with more care information. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Brachydanio_aequipinnatus.html The Sunset Gourami's are the dwarf varieties so they should be OK. Regular gouramis would get too big for a 20G. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Colisa_lalia.html The platy should be fine. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Xiphophorus_maculatus.html You need to find out what kind of catfish you have. They can range from species like otocinclus which can stay under 2" as adults up to a freshwater river catfish which can grow to the size of a large adult human. There are literally thousands of catfish species so it's important that you find out exactly what you have. Same with the "pink guy" and the "silvery pinkish fish". Same with the algae eaters. There are hundreds of different kinds of algae eaters. Some stay small like the otocinclus (2" or so) and others grow huge like a common pleco (over 18") Without knowing what these unknown fish are, you could be OK or you could be destined for major problems with the ecosystem in your tank. As far as the missing fish, if a fish dies, it can be consumed rather quickly by it's tank mates. Some of your fish could be carnivorous or omnivorous so they might happen to like a little sushi in their diet. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tina Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new and I have a question Hello, I am new to the group. I have only just begun my aquarist adventure. I set up my tank in November. It is a 20 gal long tank. It is pretty simple. I have it set up with fresh water tropical fish. I have the temp at 72-74 degrees. I have a whisper filter with bone charcoal I purchase from my local fish store. Honestly I am not sure of all of the names of my fish. I will do my best to name them all. My question, however, is how do you just lose a fish? I am missing one of my cat fish. It is just gone. I even removed all of my decorations from the tank and took apart the filter. The fish is just gone. It was there yesterday, I am 99.9% positive it was there. I try to make sure I check the temp, count them, and watch them when I feed them. They are just neat to watch. Well, as I was doing my usual routine today I noticed it was MIA. SO, I thought to jump on here and see what you all thought. Here is the list of the fish I currently have: 2 sunset gourami 2 glow red zebra 1 platy (it's partner died in the beginning) 1 little light pink guy but I can't remember what it's called, kind of roundish/oval. 1 (was 2) cat fish 2 algae eaters 2 other little silvery pinkish fish about 1inch long oval top feeder. I know these are terrible descriptions. I lost my slip with all of their names. The other thing I want to mention is that my tank is clean. The water has been tested just this past week. I don't have really any algae. SO, I am wondering if one of those algae eaters decided to dine on my catfish. What do you think? The woman at the store, whose been doing this since I was little, at least 25 years set me up with all of the fish. She and her employee hand picked the fish that would be good together in the tank. The cat fish were the last to be introduced. I think they've been in there for just over two weeks. Thanks for your help. If there is any other info I should give let me know. Also, if you know of any good sites that have pictures with the names of the fish could you let me know so I can try to re- identify these guys? (Added from 2nd post) - OOPS! I said that the catfish were the newest addition to the tank. It was the algae eaters that were added two weeks ago. Sorry about that. Thanks, Tina No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26248	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Potted Plants

Lenny mentioned in an earlier post that he has some of his plants in the small 2-3" clay pots. My question is: would it be possible to use aquarium sealer on half of the pot, the front, and while wet roll it in gravel and let dry. The purpose is so that from the front the pot blends in with the gravel and is less noticeable. I hope that makes sense. I want plants in my tank and I figured that this would be a easy way to do it without worrying about the substraite. What does everyone think? Alanna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26249	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: new and I have a question

Tina, Have you checked the floor around the aquarium for what is now, to be sure, a petrified fish? The fish may have jumped and managed to find a hole large enough to pass through and ended up on the floor. If you have any fur faced creatures of the feline persuasion, I'd not rule them out either, though none of mine has ever bothered a fish. Else, as Lenny has mentioned, he may have died and been eaten by others in the tank. You really need to sit yourself down with some of the literature and have a good read before you proceed any further. You have also found a good resource in this list, but be wary of the information you may find in places on the web. Not every site give reliable information, and to a novice aquarium keeper, bad information is very hard to sniff out. Earlier this week there was a hart thread on recommended books, which you might want to look up by a search or going through the posts from the last week or so. My recommendation to you is the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1. It has a brief section on setting up a tank, a small section on plants, and more than enough pictures of fish, along with their descriptions of size, water parameters, feeding and breeding, and temperament to keep you going for quite some time. I believe there are no w5 freshwater volumes available in English now, but the first will be all you need for some time to come. That little pink roundish guy may be a kissing gourami, which will have no right to be in that tank after a short period, as they can get quite large. However, based on your description, my guess may be wrong, but that is what first came to mind. It is important that you know what fish you are keeping so that you can know their habits, and what may be best for them. Your tank may look pristine, but it is really the water quality, something you cannot see that counts. And, as Lenny ha said, nothing is better than having your own test kits to test the water with. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tina Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new and I have a question Hello, I am new to the group. I have only just begun my aquarist adventure. I set up my tank in November. It is a 20 gal long tank. It is pretty simple. I have it set up with fresh water tropical fish. I have the temp at 72-74 degrees. I have a whisper filter with bone charcoal I purchase from my local fish store. Honestly I am not sure of all of the names of my fish. I will do my best to name them all. My question, however, is how do you just lose a fish? I am missing one of my cat fish. It is just gone. I even removed all of my decorations from the tank and took apart the filter. The fish is just gone. It was there yesterday, I am 99.9% positive it was there. I try to make sure I check the temp, count them, and watch them when I feed them. They are just neat to watch. Well, as I was doing my usual routine today I noticed it was MIA. SO, I thought to jump on here and see what you all thought. Here is the list of the fish I currently have: 2 sunset gourami 2 glow red zebra 1 platy (it's partner died in the beginning) 1 little light pink guy but I can't remember what it's called, kind of roundish/oval. 1 (was 2) cat fish 2 algae eaters 2 other little silvery pinkish fish about 1inch long oval top feeder. I know these are terrible descriptions. I lost my slip with all of their names. The other thing I want to mention is that my tank is clean. The water has been tested just this past week. I don't have really any algae. SO, I am wondering if one of those algae eaters decided to dine on my catfish. What do you think? The woman at the store, whose been doing this since I was little, at least 25 years set me up with all of the fish. She and her employee hand picked the fish that would be good together in the tank. The cat fish were the last to be introduced. I think they've been in there for just over two weeks. Thanks for your help. If there is any other info I should give let me know. Also, if you know of any good sites that have pictures with the names of the fish could you let me know so I can try to re- identify these guys? Thanks, Tina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26250	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants

You would need to do this before planting the plants in the pot. The sealant will not cure in the water. Normally, people who use pots hide the post by creative aquascaping, hiding the pot behind a rock, a piece of driftwood, or in a mound of substrate (gravel). Some have terraced their tanks so that the higher areas contain the pots, while the lower areas are devoid of rooted plants. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Potted Plants Lenny mentioned in an earlier post that he has some of his plants in the small 2-3" clay pots. My question is: would it be possible to use aquarium sealer on half of the pot, the front, and while wet roll it in gravel and let dry. The purpose is so that from the front the pot blends in with the gravel and is less noticeable. I hope that makes sense. I want plants in my tank and I figured that this would be a easy way to do it without worrying about the substraite. What does everyone think? Alanna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26251	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates in the Aquarium (now a little more about Purigen)

As I stated, I did hear of Purgen, but was not aware of what it did or how it worked, no that it was not worth looking into. I am sorry if I gave that impression. I can usually phrase things better than I did. FWIW zeolite is a term used to describe a multitude of minerals that have ion exchanging properties, and is not limited to just ammonia. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 7:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates in the Aquarium (now a little more about Purigen) Steve, Purigen is a not one of the "schemes" that we see so often in the aquaria world. It is merely a chemical filtration media made by SeaChem and it's basically just a newer advanced form of chemical filtration, except that it's white and turns dark brown as it gets "dirty". Then you can just soak it 24 hours in a 50/50 bleach/water solution to "clean" it. Then soak it another 24 hours in a 8 oz. water / 2 oz. dechlor solution and it's ready to go back in the filter (see other step below that may be needed for some users). According to SeaChem (I haven't found any independent testing), it's 500 times more capable of removing TDS', DOC's, etc., when compared to regular carbon and it will also remove some nitrates. Although it's white in color, it's not a zeolite type product so it does not remove ammonia so it will not affect the size of your nitrifying bacteria colony like zeolite does. You can get it in bulk and fill your own filter media bags or buy it in a pre-packaged filter bag suitable for up to 100G tanks. I have been keeping two of them running in my 65G goldfish tank for the past two years and have recharged them both many times and they still seem to be working fine. Of course, the SeaChem instructions also recommend soaking the cleaned and dechlored packet in some buffer up type solution that they sell, but I have not found the need for that in my tank since I have moderately hard water already. They only recommend the buffer up process when using Purigen in FW tanks which is why I think it mainly needs to be done with lower GH/KH water since SW tanks will not have that problem. From what I understand, if you have low GH water, you need to soak the cleaned Purigen in the buffer up solution. I think I documented my testing on my filter cleaning and maintenance page on my blog. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/notice-this-article-is-very-import ant. html After I cleaned and dechlored a used package of Purigen, I put it in a gallon of dechlored tap water that had been sitting out for the two days also. I tested the GH/KH/pH after the two days and then added the package of Purigen and regularly stirred the water every hour or so when I was home. After two days of the Purigen in the tap water, my GH/KH and pH remained the same level. If someone has softer or lower pH water, they should do their own testing or just use the buffer up soak as recommended by SeaChem to avoid a potential problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates in the Aquarium I am not familiar with Purgen, though I have heard of it. There are all kinds of water "purification" equipment and schemes out there. If one is just running a single tank, or maybe two, one would need to consider the costs associated with using filtration methods or reverse osmosis, or getting water from another source that may be "better" water for your fish. The important thing to remember, as Arthur Dent was reminded many times, is don't panic. In this case, running out looking for cure-alls that may resolve your perceived emergency that may actually make things worse. If you absolutely need to do something about your problem, be it nitrates or something else, DO A PARTIAL WATER CHANGE. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates in the Aquarium Hi Steve, This is a lot of good info as well as the link. I just wanted to interject that for those who are fighting a water supply that is not normal, what I have done and have been doing is to have a small bank of Brita water filters that all the water that goes into my two tanks go through. The exception would be when I have to put water back when using the Python water vacuum tube that hooks to the faucet. I guess I could build up a reserve of water for that too but I don't have that bad of water as I have tested it. Another thing a person could do is store water in a slightly open container to allow chlorines and other chemicals to exchange out into the air for a few days or a week, that way it is less of a difference than water directly from the faucet. There are chemical additives but I am not sure what they are exchanging for what not being a chemist. Do you also consider the regenerable filter media called Purgen for additional filtration? Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Steve Szabo wrote: > > As those of you who have been around for a while know, I do not put much > emphasis on the level of nitrates in freshwater systems. Over the last > few years, there has been an increasing emphasis on reducing nitrates as > much as possible in the freshwater aquarium. I do attribute this to the > emphasis of very low nitrates in marine and reef aquaria, which is > necessary to the health of the various critters found within, especially > corals and anemones, and the EPA issuing regulations declaring that no > public water supply should have more than 10 ppm of nitrate in the water > they supply. I have seen many people come here frantic to reduce low > amounts of nitrates (less than 60 ppm) because they thought they had a > problem when they really did not. > > The fact is, that despite the EPA, many local water supplies have higher > nitrate levels than the EPA claims to allow, which is then added to the > aquarium during a water change. The nitrogen cycle in the aquarium also > produces nitrates as an end product (not really the end of the cycle, > but considered to be so for the aquarist). > > I have just finished reading an article by Tony Griffitts, which can be > found here: http://tinyurl.com/33see9 <http://tinyurl.com/33see9> > <http://tinyurl.com/33see9 <http://tinyurl.com/33see9> > (using > TinyURL due to the length of the original link), that, more or less, > backs what I have said here before, and will, undoubtedly say here in > the future. His recommended limit is 100 ppm, while I go a bit higher. > > Given, in our imperfect world, we will always be faced with some amount > of nitrate in our tanks, what can we do about it? > > First, let us take a look at where nitrate comes from. The two major > sources have already been listed above. The major source should be your > tank itself and the nitrogen cycle. An ancillary source would be your > own tap water, hence one of the reasons we ask to get a baseline of your > tap water with the test kits you are using. If you water is high in > nitrates, you will immediately know that the tap water may be part of > your problem. > > Once a tank is established, you should still be taking water tests, > although at much longer intervals. If your nitrate is rising, the reason > why it is so will need to be determined. Have you added more fish to > your tank? Has a fish gone missing, and cannot be found? Has there been > any other change in your aquarium? Has there been a change in your tap > water? If you have a planted tank, are your plants no longer growing as > they had been? Once the source of the increase has been found, a course > of action can be determined. There is no real rush to fix this > immediately, depending on the fish you are keeping--some are more > sensitive than others to levels of nitrate, and their behavior should be > a clue as to whether they are being affected or not. > > Unless your tap is the source, the remedy would be to do more frequent > water changes, which should slowly decrease the amount of nitrates in > your tank. If your tap water is the source, you will need to find an > alternate source of water. If your tank does not have live plants, you > can consider adding plants to your tank. It will take the plants a bit > to become established and start using the nitrates in your tank as part > of their diet. > > If the problem is a death, finding the remains will stop the nitrates > from increasing, and the water changes will help bring it back to > normal. > > If there was an increase in the population of the tank, whether it be > fry that were born or an introduction of your own, you will need to make > the determination if your tank can handle the additional load or if you > need to move some fish to another tank. > > Just remember not to panic, take your time, and go through things in a > logical manner to resolve your issue. And, as always, you can come here > looking for further advice and counsel. > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26252	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants

I realize that I would have to let the sealant cure before using and I also know that I would have to do this and THEN put the plants in the pots. I was just wondering if the pots had to absorb water. If that was not required, then the whole pot could be covered. :) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > You would need to do this before planting the plants in the pot. The > sealant will not cure in the water. Normally, people who use pots hide > the post by creative aquascaping, hiding the pot behind a rock, a piece > of driftwood, or in a mound of substrate (gravel). Some have terraced > their tanks so that the higher areas contain the pots, while the lower > areas are devoid of rooted plants. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Potted Plants > > Lenny mentioned in an earlier post that he has some of his plants in > the small 2-3" clay pots. My question is: would it be possible to use > aquarium sealer on half of the pot, the front, and while wet roll it in > gravel and let dry. The purpose is so that from the front the pot > blends in with the gravel and is less noticeable. I hope that makes > sense. I want plants in my tank and I figured that this would be a easy > way to do it without worrying about the substraite. What does everyone > think? Alanna >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26253	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants

Yes, I've seen people decorate their clay pots with their substrate using aquarium safe silicone. I thought I had mentioned that but may have failed to do it. Steve explained that the decorating must be done first and allowed to cure for the recommended time before putting the decorated clay pot into your tank. I would roll the entire clay pot, rather than just the front so that you don't have to worry about it from different angles. Here is Chuck's page on how he decorated his Paludarium. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g_construct.htm He used regular spray paint to do some of his decorating and then coated the painted materials in clear epoxy to make it aquarium safe. If you decided to paint the clay pots, you would have to coat the inside and outside in epoxy since clay is absorbent and might leach if not sealed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Potted Plants Lenny mentioned in an earlier post that he has some of his plants in the small 2-3" clay pots. My question is: would it be possible to use aquarium sealer on half of the pot, the front, and while wet roll it in gravel and let dry. The purpose is so that from the front the pot blends in with the gravel and is less noticeable. I hope that makes sense. I want plants in my tank and I figured that this would be a easy way to do it without worrying about the substraite. What does everyone think? Alanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26254	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants

It is not necessary for the pots to absorb water, however, any untreated portions will allow water to be absorbed, but I do not think the pot would swell appreciably. However, I do think you should look at your tank with an artistic eye to determine how to best disguise the pot without going to all the work to cover them with gravel. I'm not sure you would get the desired look. Try one as an experiment before going whole hog with your idea to see how it looks first. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted Plants I realize that I would have to let the sealant cure before using and I also know that I would have to do this and THEN put the plants in the pots. I was just wondering if the pots had to absorb water. If that was not required, then the whole pot could be covered. :) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > You would need to do this before planting the plants in the pot. The > sealant will not cure in the water. Normally, people who use pots hide > the post by creative aquascaping, hiding the pot behind a rock, a piece > of driftwood, or in a mound of substrate (gravel). Some have terraced > their tanks so that the higher areas contain the pots, while the lower > areas are devoid of rooted plants. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Potted Plants > > Lenny mentioned in an earlier post that he has some of his plants in > the small 2-3" clay pots. My question is: would it be possible to use > aquarium sealer on half of the pot, the front, and while wet roll it in > gravel and let dry. The purpose is so that from the front the pot > blends in with the gravel and is less noticeable. I hope that makes > sense. I want plants in my tank and I figured that this would be a easy > way to do it without worrying about the substraite. What does everyone > think? Alanna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26255	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants

I was typing my reply when you sent this but I think I answered your question. The clay pot would soak up water from the inside, bottom, etc., so you can still cover the entire outside with your gravel. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted Plants I realize that I would have to let the sealant cure before using and I also know that I would have to do this and THEN put the plants in the pots. I was just wondering if the pots had to absorb water. If that was not required, then the whole pot could be covered. :) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > You would need to do this before planting the plants in the pot. The > sealant will not cure in the water. Normally, people who use pots hide > the post by creative aquascaping, hiding the pot behind a rock, a piece > of driftwood, or in a mound of substrate (gravel). Some have terraced > their tanks so that the higher areas contain the pots, while the lower > areas are devoid of rooted plants. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Potted Plants > > Lenny mentioned in an earlier post that he has some of his plants in > the small 2-3" clay pots. My question is: would it be possible to use > aquarium sealer on half of the pot, the front, and while wet roll it in > gravel and let dry. The purpose is so that from the front the pot > blends in with the gravel and is less noticeable. I hope that makes > sense. I want plants in my tank and I figured that this would be a easy > way to do it without worrying about the substraite. What does everyone > think? Alanna > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26256	From: Jenn	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Tank mate suggestions.

I am having my LFS get me some of the "T-bar" cichlids that I have been talking about. I will be setting up my 56 gallon column tank for them. I am looking for suggestions on how many I should get (1 pair or 2 or more) and suitable tank mates (Firemouth, green terror...)and some bottom feeders. I know not to bother with the live plants since they will all get dug up anyway. This is to be a tank of small/medium South/Central American cichlids. Thanks in advance for the info. jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26257	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants

Reminds me of how I used two ceramic coffee cups as plant "pots" in a tank once. They were fish related so it wasn't completely whacko and it was a conversation piece when company came over. I had run out of clay pots and only had a thin layer of gravel and I wanted to add live plants to the tank so necessity became the mother of invention and voila... coffee cup plant pots. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted Plants It is not necessary for the pots to absorb water, however, any untreated portions will allow water to be absorbed, but I do not think the pot would swell appreciably. However, I do think you should look at your tank with an artistic eye to determine how to best disguise the pot without going to all the work to cover them with gravel. I'm not sure you would get the desired look. Try one as an experiment before going whole hog with your idea to see how it looks first. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted Plants I realize that I would have to let the sealant cure before using and I also know that I would have to do this and THEN put the plants in the pots. I was just wondering if the pots had to absorb water. If that was not required, then the whole pot could be covered. :) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > You would need to do this before planting the plants in the pot. The > sealant will not cure in the water. Normally, people who use pots hide > the post by creative aquascaping, hiding the pot behind a rock, a piece > of driftwood, or in a mound of substrate (gravel). Some have terraced > their tanks so that the higher areas contain the pots, while the lower > areas are devoid of rooted plants. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Potted Plants > > Lenny mentioned in an earlier post that he has some of his plants in > the small 2-3" clay pots. My question is: would it be possible to use > aquarium sealer on half of the pot, the front, and while wet roll it in > gravel and let dry. The purpose is so that from the front the pot > blends in with the gravel and is less noticeable. I hope that makes > sense. I want plants in my tank and I figured that this would be a easy > way to do it without worrying about the substraite. What does everyone > think? Alanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2008
Subject: Re: Tank mate suggestions.

What are the dimensions of this "column tank". I'm imagining that it's a tall tank with limited surface area and bottom area so that may limit you a lot on what else you can put in the tank. Even though it's 56G, if it only has the surface area or footprint of a 20G tank, then you have to look at it more as a 20G for stocking purposes... especially with cichlids. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank mate suggestions. I am having my LFS get me some of the "T-bar" cichlids that I have been talking about. I will be setting up my 56 gallon column tank for them. I am looking for suggestions on how many I should get (1 pair or 2 or more) and suitable tank mates (Firemouth, green terror...)and some bottom feeders. I know not to bother with the live plants since they will all get dug up anyway. This is to be a tank of small/medium South/Central American cichlids. Thanks in advance for the info. jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26259	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants

Yes I’ve done this for caves but not plants. Makes the pot less pervious if that matters. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Potted Plants Lenny mentioned in an earlier post that he has some of his plants in the small 2-3" clay pots. My question is: would it be possible to use aquarium sealer on half of the pot, the front, and while wet roll it in gravel and let dry. The purpose is so that from the front the pot blends in with the gravel and is less noticeable. I hope that makes sense. I want plants in my tank and I figured that this would be a easy way to do it without worrying about the substraite. What does everyone think? Alanna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26260	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants

I used it on terra cotta saucers that were going to be sunken in the substrate, just to disguise any portions that the fish uncovered when digging. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted Plants Reminds me of how I used two ceramic coffee cups as plant "pots" in a tank once. They were fish related so it wasn't completely whacko and it was a conversation piece when company came over. I had run out of clay pots and only had a thin layer of gravel and I wanted to add live plants to the tank so necessity became the mother of invention and voila... coffee cup plant pots. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted Plants It is not necessary for the pots to absorb water, however, any untreated portions will allow water to be absorbed, but I do not think the pot would swell appreciably. However, I do think you should look at your tank with an artistic eye to determine how to best disguise the pot without going to all the work to cover them with gravel. I'm not sure you would get the desired look. Try one as an experiment before going whole hog with your idea to see how it looks first. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted Plants I realize that I would have to let the sealant cure before using and I also know that I would have to do this and THEN put the plants in the pots. I was just wondering if the pots had to absorb water. If that was not required, then the whole pot could be covered. :) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > You would need to do this before planting the plants in the pot. The > sealant will not cure in the water. Normally, people who use pots hide > the post by creative aquascaping, hiding the pot behind a rock, a piece > of driftwood, or in a mound of substrate (gravel). Some have terraced > their tanks so that the higher areas contain the pots, while the lower > areas are devoid of rooted plants. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Potted Plants > > Lenny mentioned in an earlier post that he has some of his plants in > the small 2-3" clay pots. My question is: would it be possible to use > aquarium sealer on half of the pot, the front, and while wet roll it in > gravel and let dry. The purpose is so that from the front the pot > blends in with the gravel and is less noticeable. I hope that makes > sense. I want plants in my tank and I figured that this would be a easy > way to do it without worrying about the substraite. What does everyone > think? Alanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26261	From: Tina Stawicki	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: new and I have a question

Thanks for the tips. I am going to go on down tomorrow and spend some time writing down the names. I am going to have her test the water and give me the numbers as Lenny suggested as well. Yeah, I looked all over. No fish. I do have three cats, but in my observation I have not seen them really bother the tank. I think some of the other fish would have been easier targets as this one never really came up from the bottom much. Anyway, anything is possible when I wasn't watching!;-) I know I sounded pretty ridiculous with my descriptions. I have searched pictures on the web, and couldn't find any that matched the ones in the tank. Even the Red Glow Zebras don't look too much like the ones in the pictures. These guys have more of a coral pink tone and the fins are longer, very soft looking and flow really pretty in the water. I know they are just have to be very common community fish. The woman who I buy from is really amazing. I think she seems to really know her stuff. She is so particular. My guess is that she has been at this for so long she just expects her customers to just listen to her. When I went the first time during the set up period I was ready to get the test kit and the whole shebang so I could be on top of these things and she just told me when people get messing with those things they mess things up. I didn't quite agree, but I was afraid to argue with her. So, she told me which fish to get. She tests my water. She gave me a couple of things for the water care and has just been telling me when and how to do things. Honestly, this is not hat I had in mind when I set the tank up. I was really ready to learn everything I possibly could. I wanted to know everything I possibly could. See, we homeschool our kids and I was really excited to use this as part of our education. I thought it would be excellent for my daughter who is also very interested. But, I went and got myself all intimidated and have just been basically following her directions. I think the only other option within driving distance for me is Petco. Really, I would rather stay away from a place like that after what I have read so far. So, I will get over there tomorrow and get the information I need. Thanks, Tina Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: Tina, Have you checked the floor around the aquarium for what is now, to be sure, a petrified fish? The fish may have jumped and managed to find a hole large enough to pass through and ended up on the floor. If you have any fur faced creatures of the feline persuasion, I'd not rule them out either, though none of mine has ever bothered a fish. Else, as Lenny has mentioned, he may have died and been eaten by others in the tank. You really need to sit yourself down with some of the literature and have a good read before you proceed any further. You have also found a good resource in this list, but be wary of the information you may find in places on the web. Not every site give reliable information, and to a novice aquarium keeper, bad information is very hard to sniff out. Earlier this week there was a hart thread on recommended books, which you might want to look up by a search or going through the posts from the last week or so. My recommendation to you is the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1. It has a brief section on setting up a tank, a small section on plants, and more than enough pictures of fish, along with their descriptions of size, water parameters, feeding and breeding, and temperament to keep you going for quite some time. I believe there are no w5 freshwater volumes available in English now, but the first will be all you need for some time to come. That little pink roundish guy may be a kissing gourami, which will have no right to be in that tank after a short period, as they can get quite large. However, based on your description, my guess may be wrong, but that is what first came to mind. It is important that you know what fish you are keeping so that you can know their habits, and what may be best for them. Your tank may look pristine, but it is really the water quality, something you cannot see that counts. And, as Lenny ha said, nothing is better than having your own test kits to test the water with. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tina Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new and I have a question Hello, I am new to the group. I have only just begun my aquarist adventure. I set up my tank in November. It is a 20 gal long tank. It is pretty simple. I have it set up with fresh water tropical fish. I have the temp at 72-74 degrees. I have a whisper filter with bone charcoal I purchase from my local fish store. Honestly I am not sure of all of the names of my fish. I will do my best to name them all. My question, however, is how do you just lose a fish? I am missing one of my cat fish. It is just gone. I even removed all of my decorations from the tank and took apart the filter. The fish is just gone. It was there yesterday, I am 99.9% positive it was there. I try to make sure I check the temp, count them, and watch them when I feed them. They are just neat to watch. Well, as I was doing my usual routine today I noticed it was MIA. SO, I thought to jump on here and see what you all thought. Here is the list of the fish I currently have: 2 sunset gourami 2 glow red zebra 1 platy (it's partner died in the beginning) 1 little light pink guy but I can't remember what it's called, kind of roundish/oval. 1 (was 2) cat fish 2 algae eaters 2 other little silvery pinkish fish about 1inch long oval top feeder. I know these are terrible descriptions. I lost my slip with all of their names. The other thing I want to mention is that my tank is clean. The water has been tested just this past week. I don't have really any algae. SO, I am wondering if one of those algae eaters decided to dine on my catfish. What do you think? The woman at the store, whose been doing this since I was little, at least 25 years set me up with all of the fish. She and her employee hand picked the fish that would be good together in the tank. The cat fish were the last to be introduced. I think they've been in there for just over two weeks. Thanks for your help. If there is any other info I should give let me know. Also, if you know of any good sites that have pictures with the names of the fish could you let me know so I can try to re- identify these guys? Thanks, Tina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26262	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: new and I have a question

Since you want to learn a lot more. Go to my blog page "A to Z of fish keeping" and I have tons of info on that page. Right near the top, there is a link to two different online tutorials that will walk you through all phases of fish keeping for beginners. Neither of them have correlating online quizzes but at least you and the kids can start to learn more about the biology, chemistry and human factors that are involved in a closed ecosystem like our aquariums. As far as Petco's, PetsMarts, Wal-Marts, etc., they can have great fish departments or bad fish departments, just like a LFS (local fish store) can either be great or bad. Sure, it's more likely to have less experienced people working in one of the big-box stores but I've also seen horror stories involving LFS owners/employees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tina Stawicki Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 1:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new and I have a question Thanks for the tips. I am going to go on down tomorrow and spend some time writing down the names. I am going to have her test the water and give me the numbers as Lenny suggested as well. Yeah, I looked all over. No fish. I do have three cats, but in my observation I have not seen them really bother the tank. I think some of the other fish would have been easier targets as this one never really came up from the bottom much. Anyway, anything is possible when I wasn't watching!;-) I know I sounded pretty ridiculous with my descriptions. I have searched pictures on the web, and couldn't find any that matched the ones in the tank. Even the Red Glow Zebras don't look too much like the ones in the pictures. These guys have more of a coral pink tone and the fins are longer, very soft looking and flow really pretty in the water. I know they are just have to be very common community fish. The woman who I buy from is really amazing. I think she seems to really know her stuff. She is so particular. My guess is that she has been at this for so long she just expects her customers to just listen to her. When I went the first time during the set up period I was ready to get the test kit and the whole shebang so I could be on top of these things and she just told me when people get messing with those things they mess things up. I didn't quite agree, but I was afraid to argue with her. So, she told me which fish to get. She tests my water. She gave me a couple of things for the water care and has just been telling me when and how to do things. Honestly, this is not hat I had in mind when I set the tank up. I was really ready to learn everything I possibly could. I wanted to know everything I possibly could. See, we homeschool our kids and I was really excited to use this as part of our education. I thought it would be excellent for my daughter who is also very interested. But, I went and got myself all intimidated and have just been basically following her directions. I think the only other option within driving distance for me is Petco. Really, I would rather stay away from a place like that after what I have read so far. So, I will get over there tomorrow and get the information I need. Thanks, Tina Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: Tina, Have you checked the floor around the aquarium for what is now, to be sure, a petrified fish? The fish may have jumped and managed to find a hole large enough to pass through and ended up on the floor. If you have any fur faced creatures of the feline persuasion, I'd not rule them out either, though none of mine has ever bothered a fish. Else, as Lenny has mentioned, he may have died and been eaten by others in the tank. You really need to sit yourself down with some of the literature and have a good read before you proceed any further. You have also found a good resource in this list, but be wary of the information you may find in places on the web. Not every site give reliable information, and to a novice aquarium keeper, bad information is very hard to sniff out. Earlier this week there was a hart thread on recommended books, which you might want to look up by a search or going through the posts from the last week or so. My recommendation to you is the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1. It has a brief section on setting up a tank, a small section on plants, and more than enough pictures of fish, along with their descriptions of size, water parameters, feeding and breeding, and temperament to keep you going for quite some time. I believe there are no w5 freshwater volumes available in English now, but the first will be all you need for some time to come. That little pink roundish guy may be a kissing gourami, which will have no right to be in that tank after a short period, as they can get quite large. However, based on your description, my guess may be wrong, but that is what first came to mind. It is important that you know what fish you are keeping so that you can know their habits, and what may be best for them. Your tank may look pristine, but it is really the water quality, something you cannot see that counts. And, as Lenny ha said, nothing is better than having your own test kits to test the water with. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Tina Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] new and I have a question Hello, I am new to the group. I have only just begun my aquarist adventure. I set up my tank in November. It is a 20 gal long tank. It is pretty simple. I have it set up with fresh water tropical fish. I have the temp at 72-74 degrees. I have a whisper filter with bone charcoal I purchase from my local fish store. Honestly I am not sure of all of the names of my fish. I will do my best to name them all. My question, however, is how do you just lose a fish? I am missing one of my cat fish. It is just gone. I even removed all of my decorations from the tank and took apart the filter. The fish is just gone. It was there yesterday, I am 99.9% positive it was there. I try to make sure I check the temp, count them, and watch them when I feed them. They are just neat to watch. Well, as I was doing my usual routine today I noticed it was MIA. SO, I thought to jump on here and see what you all thought. Here is the list of the fish I currently have: 2 sunset gourami 2 glow red zebra 1 platy (it's partner died in the beginning) 1 little light pink guy but I can't remember what it's called, kind of roundish/oval. 1 (was 2) cat fish 2 algae eaters 2 other little silvery pinkish fish about 1inch long oval top feeder. I know these are terrible descriptions. I lost my slip with all of their names. The other thing I want to mention is that my tank is clean. The water has been tested just this past week. I don't have really any algae. SO, I am wondering if one of those algae eaters decided to dine on my catfish. What do you think? The woman at the store, whose been doing this since I was little, at least 25 years set me up with all of the fish. She and her employee hand picked the fish that would be good together in the tank. The cat fish were the last to be introduced. I think they've been in there for just over two weeks. Thanks for your help. If there is any other info I should give let me know. Also, if you know of any good sites that have pictures with the names of the fish could you let me know so I can try to re- identify these guys? Thanks, Tina No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1307 - Release Date: 3/2/2008 3:59 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26263	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Undergravel Filters

I have been "into" fish for many years but never had an undergravel filter system before (they came with my numerous two and three-gallon tanks and my five-gallon tank). How do you actually clean these things? I am guessing that using a siphon isn't enough to get everything from the underground filter. Speaking of cleaning, is there such a thing as a small siphon/gravel cleaner for small tanks? If I were to use the one I use on my 29-gallon and 55-gallon, these tanks would be emptied in a heartbeat. I do regular PWC's on all these tanks but still would like to clean the gravel sometimes. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26264	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Looking for a name

LOL. The Red Green show is on PBS channels and comes from canada http://www.redgreen.com/index.cfm?app=cart&a=menu Yeppers wid peppers. WoooooHooooo! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Wooo Hoooo... that is short for Uncle Redneck.... right? Git 'er done! > > And your last post brings a new redneck joke to mind. > > You know you're a redneck fish when you live in a half-gallon bowl and think > your poop don't stink! I think a little hot wheels car on little cinder > blocks in his front yard would be a fitting tank decoration... or a > double-wide trailer. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ED > Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 1:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Looking for a name > > Actually the vote went down last night.His name is Ta! Da! "Uncle Red" > from the Red Green show. I know not flashy or even elegant, He's a charecter > though. Blows up "I'll kick your ^$$!" every time we walk by. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Debra" <dmelton2@> wrote: > > > > > > Or El Rojo - The Red! > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 2/28/2008 > 12:14 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26265	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri

I think I've confused the other 'look alikes' And that does make sense because I see them attaching at the store(underfed). Most of the time the people in one store inparticular, Dont' have a clue. I mean an elephant fish in with a black ghost knife 10gl. When I do buy fish from there they go in a quarantine tank. My other store the lady knows what she is doing. TY. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > No on the loaches but I did just buy a Clown Pleco (Panaque maccus although > Mongabay has Peckoltia pulcher so I need to do a little more research on > their current scientific name) which only grows to around 4-5". They do not > readily accept most regular foods so there needs to be a sufficient supply > of algae and a piece of driftwood. > > Many algae eating fish will "attack" other fish if they get hungry enough. > Most of them are actually omnivores so they need protein in their diets. So > many people think they will survive strictly on algae and scraps that the > fish begin to "starve" for protein and then go after slow moving wide-bodied > fish like goldfish, angelfish, etc. If the "algae eater" is afforded a > proper diet and fed after lights out (most of them are more nocturnal), they > will usually leave other fish alone. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ED > Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 3:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri > > Does anyone actually put them in with other fish? They seem to cling to some > fish removing the 'coating' the a scaled fish has. Or am I missing > something. Everytime I'm looking for algae aeters the store's try and push > them off on me. I like the 'borneo' as they list it, I found it in the book > under 'hillstream loaches'. Little fella's for smaller tanks. > Anyone with experiance with either. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 2/28/2008 > 12:14 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26266	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ghost Knife Fish

We started by putting the food in our fingers close to his lil log, He'd come out and munch away, rubbing against our hand. Now he comes to the top of the tank when we start feeding. He'll even push the angels out of the way. Bloodworms are the fave, followed by mysis shrimp and brine of course.--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gregg Bender" <greggb57@...> wrote: > > Someone on here recently said he/she had a Ghost Knife eating out of > their hand. How did you manage that? I have one that's about 7 inches > long in my 55 gallon tank and he spends most of his time behind and > under the driftwood. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26267	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ghost Knife Fish

Yep that works too. Keeps some of the 'nasties' that we carry from getting in the tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote: > > operant conditioning > > get long tweezers or a pipette that allows you to bring the food to him. > > feed him from that . > > slowly move the end of the tweezers higher and higher in the tank so he > comes out to feed more and more. > > eventually he will come to the surface when he hears you by the tank > > A > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Gregg Bender <greggb57@...> wrote: > > > Someone on here recently said he/she had a Ghost Knife eating out of > > their hand. How did you manage that? I have one that's about 7 inches > > long in my 55 gallon tank and he spends most of his time behind and > > under the driftwood. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26268	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables

That brings up a good point. LEAD --- isn't it deadly? I know they wieght plants with it but doesn't it leach just like a penny(copper)? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I use the little lead-composite strips that come on live plants as weights > for the food if it has a tendency to float. I do blanch most veggies in the > microwave first, let them cool a minute, then stick the lead strip through > the piece, fold it over and drop it in. For broccoli florets (for my > goldfish), I just drop them in and let the goldfish play rugby with it for a > couple of hours. At least they are getting their exercise while trying to > nibble the broccoli to the stalk. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fresh vegetables > > > When using zuchini or other fresh vegetables as fish food - do you weight it > down or let it float? > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.2/1305 - Release Date: 2/29/2008 > 6:32 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26269	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Undergravel Filters

Yes there are different sized siphon tubes and lines. I use a Python Water Change System and for my smaller tanks, I just turn the faucet volume down so it does not siphon as fast. For cleaning UGF's, go to my blog and on my article, "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance", there's a section on cleaning UGF's with several links to other good articles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Undergravel Filters I have been "into" fish for many years but never had an undergravel filter system before (they came with my numerous two and three-gallon tanks and my five-gallon tank). How do you actually clean these things? I am guessing that using a siphon isn't enough to get everything from the underground filter. Speaking of cleaning, is there such a thing as a small siphon/gravel cleaner for small tanks? If I were to use the one I use on my 29-gallon and 55-gallon, these tanks would be emptied in a heartbeat. I do regular PWC's on all these tanks but still would like to clean the gravel sometimes. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1307 - Release Date: 3/2/2008 3:59 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables

Actually, from what I understand, the "lead" strip isn't actually lead but some kind of composite. But even if it is lead, I think lead is pretty stable and it takes dozens, if not hundreds of years, for it to leach and it's usually due to some other chemical in the water that reacts with it. I've read that there are some issues in one of the great lakes where ships used to dump their lead ballast hundreds of years ago. We're talking tons of lead that has been in the water for a long, long time. I don't think a 1/2 ounce lead strip in a tank for an hour at a time, every couple of days would have a chance to leach anything harmful... at least not in our or our fishes lifetime. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 10:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fresh vegetables That brings up a good point. LEAD --- isn't it deadly? I know they wieght plants with it but doesn't it leach just like a penny(copper)? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I use the little lead-composite strips that come on live plants as weights > for the food if it has a tendency to float. I do blanch most veggies in the > microwave first, let them cool a minute, then stick the lead strip through > the piece, fold it over and drop it in. For broccoli florets (for my > goldfish), I just drop them in and let the goldfish play rugby with it for a > couple of hours. At least they are getting their exercise while trying to > nibble the broccoli to the stalk. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fresh vegetables > > > When using zuchini or other fresh vegetables as fish food - do you weight it > down or let it float? > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1307 - Release Date: 3/2/2008 3:59 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26271	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Online sites to buy aquarium plants ?

Can you guys tell me some sites online that sell aquarium plants, preferably ones you have used so I know they are trustworthy and the plants in good shape when received. Thanks~ „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26272	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables

Do you leave them on the plants in the tank? That was my concern. I remove them from my plants. I know metals create a whole new water quality issue. Just wondered if anyone had problems with lead. They freak over lead in toys for children. The only dumb questoin is th eone NOT asked. TY --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Actually, from what I understand, the "lead" strip isn't actually lead but > some kind of composite. But even if it is lead, I think lead is pretty > stable and it takes dozens, if not hundreds of years, for it to leach and > it's usually due to some other chemical in the water that reacts with it. > I've read that there are some issues in one of the great lakes where ships > used to dump their lead ballast hundreds of years ago. We're talking tons > of lead that has been in the water for a long, long time. I don't think a > 1/2 ounce lead strip in a tank for an hour at a time, every couple of days > would have a chance to leach anything harmful... at least not in our or our > fishes lifetime. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ED > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 10:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fresh vegetables > > That brings up a good point. LEAD --- isn't it deadly? > I know they wieght plants with it but doesn't it leach just like a > penny(copper)? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I use the little lead-composite strips that come on live plants as > weights > > for the food if it has a tendency to float. I do blanch most > veggies in the > > microwave first, let them cool a minute, then stick the lead strip > through > > the piece, fold it over and drop it in. For broccoli florets (for > my > > goldfish), I just drop them in and let the goldfish play rugby with > it for a > > couple of hours. At least they are getting their exercise while > trying to > > nibble the broccoli to the stalk. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Debra > > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fresh vegetables > > > > > > When using zuchini or other fresh vegetables as fish food - do you > weight it > > down or let it float? > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1307 - Release Date: 3/2/2008 > 3:59 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26273	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Under gravel filters

I've been lead to believe that with underground filtration, with proper fish , plant life, that underground is all you need? That the back/top filters would only be for water clarity. Lenny?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26274	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables

No, I don't leave them on the plants as they may inhibit the growth of the plants, although I have used them around small bunches of Anacharis. Since Anacharis doesn't form a crown and root system like other plants, it was simply to kind of hold the bunches in place in the back corners of a tank to make it look like they were rooted. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fresh vegetables Do you leave them on the plants in the tank? That was my concern. I remove them from my plants. I know metals create a whole new water quality issue. Just wondered if anyone had problems with lead. They freak over lead in toys for children. The only dumb questoin is th eone NOT asked. TY --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Actually, from what I understand, the "lead" strip isn't actually lead but > some kind of composite. But even if it is lead, I think lead is pretty > stable and it takes dozens, if not hundreds of years, for it to leach and > it's usually due to some other chemical in the water that reacts with it. > I've read that there are some issues in one of the great lakes where ships > used to dump their lead ballast hundreds of years ago. We're talking tons > of lead that has been in the water for a long, long time. I don't think a > 1/2 ounce lead strip in a tank for an hour at a time, every couple of days > would have a chance to leach anything harmful... at least not in our or our > fishes lifetime. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of ED > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 10:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fresh vegetables > > That brings up a good point. LEAD --- isn't it deadly? > I know they wieght plants with it but doesn't it leach just like a > penny(copper)? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I use the little lead-composite strips that come on live plants as > weights > > for the food if it has a tendency to float. I do blanch most > veggies in the > > microwave first, let them cool a minute, then stick the lead strip > through > > the piece, fold it over and drop it in. For broccoli florets (for > my > > goldfish), I just drop them in and let the goldfish play rugby with > it for a > > couple of hours. At least they are getting their exercise while > trying to > > nibble the broccoli to the stalk. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Debra > > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fresh vegetables > > > > > > When using zuchini or other fresh vegetables as fish food - do you > weight it > > down or let it float? > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1307 - Release Date: 3/2/2008 3:59 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26275	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Under gravel filters

UGF's work fine as long as they are powered properly. Many of the systems sold are powered by air pumps bubbling up thru the lift tube but this does not have enough draw or lift to suck all of the detritus down through the gravel, down under the UGF plate, across the bottom of the tank and to the uplift tube to be filtered so this excess detritus can build up under the UGF plate creating a toxic mulm. Some people hook the uplift tube of a UGF to the intake tube of a HOB power filter and others will put a powerhead on the top of the uplift tube. These options provide better suction so there is a lesser chance of the toxic mulm buildup. That's the other downside of a UGF. With HOB's and Canisters, you can remove them for cleaning where if you want to remove a UGF for cleaning, you have to disrupt the entire substrate of the tank. If your UGF's are only powered by air pumps, then you should make sure that you deeply siphon vacuum your gravel to remove as much detritus as possible and possibly even suck up some of the mulm buildup from under the UGF plate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Under gravel filters I've been lead to believe that with underground filtration, with proper fish , plant life, that underground is all you need? That the back/top filters would only be for water clarity. Lenny? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1307 - Release Date: 3/2/2008 3:59 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26276	From: ED	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Under gravel filters

Most definitly we use powerheads on the 55 and the 29. Bubblers on the 10's and yes we deeply siphon moving the gravel(side to side) to get better suction from under. I was disciminating some info I didn't think made sense. We also have filters on the back of the tanks. With the powerheads we get very little from siphoning. Bubblers just don't have the pull, Get quite a bit from the 10's. Biggest problem is over feeding ( our daughters ) They get distracted by the fish and forget to pay attention to the amount of food they are feeding. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > UGF's work fine as long as they are powered properly. Many of the systems > sold are powered by air pumps bubbling up thru the lift tube but this does > not have enough draw or lift to suck all of the detritus down through the > gravel, down under the UGF plate, across the bottom of the tank and to the > uplift tube to be filtered so this excess detritus can build up under the > UGF plate creating a toxic mulm. Some people hook the uplift tube of a UGF > to the intake tube of a HOB power filter and others will put a powerhead on > the top of the uplift tube. These options provide better suction so there > is a lesser chance of the toxic mulm buildup. That's the other downside of > a UGF. With HOB's and Canisters, you can remove them for cleaning where if > you want to remove a UGF for cleaning, you have to disrupt the entire > substrate of the tank. If your UGF's are only powered by air pumps, then > you should make sure that you deeply siphon vacuum your gravel to remove as > much detritus as possible and possibly even suck up some of the mulm buildup > from under the UGF plate. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ED > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:37 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Under gravel filters > > I've been lead to believe that with underground filtration, with proper fish > , plant life, that underground is all you need? That the back/top filters > would only be for water clarity. Lenny? > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1307 - Release Date: 3/2/2008 > 3:59 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26277	From: luke leming	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: wierd fuzzy little things on my plant?

i have these weird little thingsgrowing on the underside of the leaves of my java fern. I can't figure out if its bugs or what if any can help i'm freaking out ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26278	From: Rob and Amy Zerkle	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: The Columbus Ohio FIsh Club is having a swap and sale on saturday Ma

The Columbus FIsh Club is having a swap and sale on saturday March 8th Everyone is invited to attend- 3.00 per family or 2.00 individual admission /free parking/great food on site -new and gently used fish tanks equipemnt pumps gravel live plants and fish will be there from 11-3 -this is link to the info http://www.columbusfishclub.org/swapmeet.php Columbus Area Fish Enthusiasts' First Ever Swap Meet Saturday, March 8, 2008 11am-3pm The Hamilton Township Community Building 6400 Lockbourne Rd Lockbourne, Ohio 43137 614-491-3963 Amy & Rob CAFE members

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26279	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Quality Fish Stores in Cleveland Ohio?

Hi Guys, I am looking for a quality and knowledgeable store in or near Cleveland Ohio for fresh water fish and live plants. Has anyone had any good experiences or knowledge about this location? thanks Ken **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26280	From: nice6669	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Quality Fish Stores in Cleveland Ohio?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@... wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I am looking for a quality and knowledgeable store in or near Cleveland Ohio > for fresh water fish and live plants. Has anyone had any good experiences > or knowledge about this location? > > thanks > > Ken > > > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > rhs on engal rd

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26281	From: jason horyak	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Quality Fish Stores in Cleveland Ohio?

yes right near the airport in cleveland is RMS pets they also have a store in willoughby ohio. this is a good company will a knowledgable staff. If in the warren niles area there is a good but smaller store called T&W pets on 422. I believe this store is in Niles ohio. In ashtabula Ohio there is EdgeWood pets. this store is on State rd right off of route 20. This is another cood store with a very helpful staff. I have had positive experience with all of these stores. Then of course there are the petsmarts and pet co's that aren't so bad but the staff is never quite as knowledgeable in my experience as the small locally owned stores. This is all the east side of cleveland and If there are more I would love to know of them. jason Iksnip@... wrote: Hi Guys, I am looking for a quality and knowledgeable store in or near Cleveland Ohio for fresh water fish and live plants. Has anyone had any good experiences or knowledge about this location? thanks Ken **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26282	From: Debra	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: F/U: Fresh vegetables

I used the lead strips that came on other aquarium plants to weigh down some zuchinni strips. In every case (I have five tanks) the zuchinni was eaten down to the skin after being in the tanks overnight. I just pulled the skin and the lead the next morning. Simply amazing. I am one of those people that has a slight algae problem as I have to fight myself not to routinely over feed my fish and they still polished off the zuchinni. For everyone that replied, thanks for the info. I will be trying summer squash next. Deb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26283	From: circus0s	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: guppies,please help!!!!

Hi im new to this group. I just got 3 guppies(1male 2females) and my 1 of my female gave birth to babies, by the time i saw them there was only one left alive and the female still has a dark brown spot on her belly, will she be ok?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26284	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Online sites to buy aquarium plants ?

I've only bought plants online from people in forums but I've heard good things about LiveAquaria.com (the live goods side of DrsFosterSmith.com). The last time I checked, they sell prepared packages of plants based on your tank size and it's a better deal when going that way. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=2145 Also check Aquabid.com forums and eBay.com for people selling aquarium plants. This site, http://www.azgardens.com/newhabts2.php, also has "habitat packages" but I've read a few online complaints about their shipping charges so make sure you get things in writing about what they will charge. Hopefully, they've learned from the complaints but it's still best to get things in writing from any company. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:23 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Online sites to buy aquarium plants ? Can you guys tell me some sites online that sell aquarium plants, preferably ones you have used so I know they are trustworthy and the plants in good shape when received. Thanks~ „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1307 - Release Date: 3/2/2008 3:59 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26285	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: Online sites to buy aquarium plants ?

Sounds great. Ill check it out. Thanks Lenny. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Online sites to buy aquarium plants ? I've only bought plants online from people in forums but I've heard good things about LiveAquaria.com (the live goods side of DrsFosterSmith.com). The last time I checked, they sell prepared packages of plants based on your tank size and it's a better deal when going that way. http://www.liveaquariacom/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=2145 Also check Aquabid.com forums and eBay.com for people selling aquarium plants. This site, http://www.azgardens.com/newhabts2.php, also has "habitat packages" but I've read a few online complaints about their shipping charges so make sure you get things in writing about what they will charge. Hopefully, they've learned from the complaints but it's still best to get things in writing from any company. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:23 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Online sites to buy aquarium plants ? Can you guys tell me some sites online that sell aquarium plants, preferably ones you have used so I know they are trustworthy and the plants in good shape when received. Thanks~ „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1307 - Release Date: 3/2/2008 3:59 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26286	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2008
Subject: Re: F/U: Fresh vegetables

And now they don't have to worry about the other fish smacking them on the forehead (a la the V-8 commercials.. lol). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 8:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] F/U: Fresh vegetables I used the lead strips that came on other aquarium plants to weigh down some zuchinni strips. In every case (I have five tanks) the zuchinni was eaten down to the skin after being in the tanks overnight. I just pulled the skin and the lead the next morning. Simply amazing. I am one of those people that has a slight algae problem as I have to fight myself not to routinely over feed my fish and they still polished off the zuchinni. For everyone that replied, thanks for the info. I will be trying summer squash next. Deb No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1307 - Release Date: 3/2/2008 3:59 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26287	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Under gravel filters

Then, there is the reverse flow UGF, where the water is pushed up through the substrate, either by a canister filter or by powerheads. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Under gravel filters UGF's work fine as long as they are powered properly. Many of the systems sold are powered by air pumps bubbling up thru the lift tube but this does not have enough draw or lift to suck all of the detritus down through the gravel, down under the UGF plate, across the bottom of the tank and to the uplift tube to be filtered so this excess detritus can build up under the UGF plate creating a toxic mulm. Some people hook the uplift tube of a UGF to the intake tube of a HOB power filter and others will put a powerhead on the top of the uplift tube. These options provide better suction so there is a lesser chance of the toxic mulm buildup. That's the other downside of a UGF. With HOB's and Canisters, you can remove them for cleaning where if you want to remove a UGF for cleaning, you have to disrupt the entire substrate of the tank. If your UGF's are only powered by air pumps, then you should make sure that you deeply siphon vacuum your gravel to remove as much detritus as possible and possibly even suck up some of the mulm buildup from under the UGF plate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Under gravel filters I've been lead to believe that with underground filtration, with proper fish , plant life, that underground is all you need? That the back/top filters would only be for water clarity. Lenny? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1307 - Release Date: 3/2/2008 3:59 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. *´Ż`*.¸¸.><((((ş>.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸><((((ş> ¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸<ş((((><¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..<ş((((><*´Ż`*.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26288	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Online sites to buy aquarium plants ?

I bought a great variety from www.petsolutions.com They always have something on sale.Their plants are beautiful.Some of mine didn't make it because the UPS let them sit in the cold for 8 hours,but they gave me a full refund on those,not a credit,but refund.I will be buying from them again.They do have snails in the plants,but I rinsed mine off or put them in the tanks with clown loaches,which ate them up. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > Sounds great. Ill check it out. Thanks Lenny. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Online sites to buy aquarium plants ? > > I've only bought plants online from people in forums but I've heard good things about LiveAquaria.com (the live goods side of DrsFosterSmith.com). The last time I checked, they sell prepared packages of plants based on your tank size and it's a better deal when going that way. http://www.liveaquariacom/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=2145 > > Also check Aquabid.com forums and eBay.com for people selling aquarium plants. > > This site, http://www.azgardens.com/newhabts2.php, also has "habitat packages" but I've read a few online complaints about their shipping charges so make sure you get things in writing about what they will charge. Hopefully, they've learned from the complaints but it's still best to get things in writing from any company. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:23 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Online sites to buy aquarium plants ? > > Can you guys tell me some sites online that sell aquarium plants, preferably ones you have used so I know they are trustworthy and the plants in good shape when received. > > Thanks~ > „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1307 - Release Date: 3/2/2008 3:59 PM > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26289	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Potted Plants

I have seen pvc pipe done this way.They applied sealant,rolled it first in sand(background),let it dry then applied more sealant and rolled it in pea gravel.With clay pots it wouldn't need the sand,but I thought it was a great disguise for pvc used w/cichlids --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I used it on terra cotta saucers that were going to be sunken in the > substrate, just to disguise any portions that the fish uncovered when > digging. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted Plants > > Reminds me of how I used two ceramic coffee cups as plant "pots" in a tank > once. They were fish related so it wasn't completely whacko and it was a > conversation piece when company came over. I had run out of clay pots and > only had a thin layer of gravel and I wanted to add live plants to the tank > so necessity became the mother of invention and voila... coffee cup plant > pots. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted Plants > > It is not necessary for the pots to absorb water, however, any untreated > portions will allow water to be absorbed, but I do not think the pot would > swell appreciably. However, I do think you should look at your tank with an > artistic eye to determine how to best disguise the pot without going to all > the work to cover them with gravel. I'm not sure you would get the desired > look. Try one as an experiment before going whole hog with your idea to see > how it looks first. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted Plants > > I realize that I would have to let the sealant cure before using and I also > know that I would have to do this and THEN put the plants in the pots. I was > just wondering if the pots had to absorb water. If that was not required, > then the whole pot could be covered. :) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > You would need to do this before planting the plants in the pot. The > > sealant will not cure in the water. Normally, people who use pots > hide > > the post by creative aquascaping, hiding the pot behind a rock, a > piece > > of driftwood, or in a mound of substrate (gravel). Some have > terraced > > their tanks so that the higher areas contain the pots, while the > lower > > areas are devoid of rooted plants. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper > > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Potted Plants > > > > Lenny mentioned in an earlier post that he has some of his plants > in > > the small 2-3" clay pots. My question is: would it be possible to > use > > aquarium sealer on half of the pot, the front, and while wet roll > it in > > gravel and let dry. The purpose is so that from the front the pot > > blends in with the gravel and is less noticeable. I hope that makes > > sense. I want plants in my tank and I figured that this would be a > easy > > way to do it without worrying about the substraite. What does > everyone > > think? Alanna > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 > 5:41 PM > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26290	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Aquatic Plant Reference page

http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 This is a terrific site for anyone with aquatic plant questions.I had never dealt much with a true planted aquarium,and now I have 4.I love the look.Artificial can be simple to maintain,but my fish are thriving in the planted tanks. I would also recommend this book,Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants by Peter Hiscock.He has authored several books and I like the organization.It is a great reference w/terrific photos and illustrations.This is the book I set my paludarium up by.(My miniature peace lily is blooming for third time in it.)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26291	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Rainbow fish reference site

http://members.optusnet.com.au/chelmon/Melano.htm In cruising on Google,I ran across this site which has as many rainbowfish from New Guinea originally and from Australia as I have seen.I could find lists before,but this has the history,environment and photos.If u r interested in Rainbows,check this out. If anyone has had success in raising them,please drop me a line.I am fascinated by this species,but know little about raising them.I currently have a dozen of various well known available types. Enjoy!Sheri

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26292	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Undergravel Filters

I agree with Lenny. I've only had UGF for over thirty years. I use a Python gravel washer to clean the gravel and suck out the waste from under the plates. One trick I use is to carefully clear the gravel around from the lift tube sockets and place the Python over them. Then I turn the water up as high as I can to pull all the waste out through the holes. Then I just replace the uplift tubes and work on the gravel. It actually takes awhile to clean a 55 gallon tank with one of these. You won't empty a 55 gallon setup in a minute or two. More like 20 minutes.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26293	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh vegetables

I clip a slice of frozen zucchini or a similar veggie in a store-bought clip that sockets into a suction cup stuck onto the inside of the tank. Freezing the zucchini after slicing it does the same thing as blanching it, plus you can stock up with it without fear of spoilage. One small zucchini sliced into coins will last a LONG time!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26294	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Undergravel Filters

Paula, There are pro's and con's to the benefits/drawbacks of undergravel filters, and while they can do a good job, their use is often disuaded by the more experienced aquarists. When you ask "how do you actually clean these things?", these things (the filter medium itself) are actually the substrate which is filtering out your water; the undergravel filters themselves are merely the instruments which pulls the water through the substrate, they don't actually "filter" the water. Since it can be difficult at times making sure you get all the debris cleaned from your substrate (especially since you can't see it to know you're getting to it), these filters are known to induce varying degrees of acidic water (sometimes detrimentally so) in varying time- frames (sometimes quite fast) as a natural process of organic matter being broken down. The rate if this of course would be due to how much organic debris is left behind. One must maintain a rigid and thorough regimen of cleaning the substrate along with proper PWC's. There are various designs of gravel cleaning equipment, some hand operated and some battery operated, of different efficiencies. Not having used a Python, and as a result possibly being wrong on this, I would think that if the faucet flow were to be kept low that this piece should do as well a job with the substrate of a 2 or 3 gallon tank as it would do for your 29 or 55 gallon tanks, without emptying these small tanks too fast (unless a certain minimum flow rate is needed). Python gravel cleaner attachments are still one of the best maintenance apparati available to the hobbyist, albeit its unfortunate waste of clean water necessary to operated it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <browngip@...> wrote: > > I have been "into" fish for many years but never had an undergravel filter system before (they came with my numerous two and three-gallon tanks and my five-gallon tank). How do you actually clean these things? I am guessing that using a siphon isn't enough to get everything from the underground filter. > > Speaking of cleaning, is there such a thing as a small siphon/gravel cleaner for small tanks? If I were to use the one I use on my 29-gallon and 55-gallon, these tanks would be emptied in a heartbeat. > > I do regular PWC's on all these tanks but still would like to clean the gravel sometimes. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26295	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Undergravel Filters

Hello Gregg, I note you're in agreement with Lenny on this subject, but as you don't include any previous messages for us to follow this thread with, I don't know if you're referring to Lenny's post #26269 or his post #26275, both of which are replies to this subject. Please include and pertinent previous reply (or original post) context to enable us to follow these threads. Your method ("trick") of applying the Python directly to the area over the lift-tube sockets to draw out any debris collected on the very bottom of the tank, underneath the filter plates, has merit. I presume you do this only after first cleaning the substrate as otherwise, not only would you be stirring up the debris into the water column by moving ("clearing") the needed gravel to obtain gravel-free access to these lift-tube sockets but you would also be drawing debris futher into the substrate in all other areas of the tank. As it is, organic debris is constantly being drawn down into your substrate, much of which you may be getting with regular maintainance, but then also much of which may be always escaping you and slowly building up over time. This contributes to accelerated acidification of your tank water due to this matter being broken down aerobically via nitrifying bacteria, unnecessarily so if it were to be removed in the first place (but cannot be accessed). More importantly, the possibility of any "lost" organic debris compacting and preventing the flow of water through it by blocking its flow, will result in anaerobic deterioration of this organic matter. This will constitute noxious gases (methane and hydrogen) possibly building up in the substrate if this were allowed to happen. These gases can have toxic results to your fish as they escape from the substrate, and are not contributory to good water quality even if the fish are not killed outright from this. While you may be diligent enough to prevent this from happening (I note you've used them for over 30 years), some others here with less experience may think this might be a good way to filter their tank, and at the same time be relatively maintenance free, allowing the substrate to take over this job from any prior filter method without much further attention -- such is not the case. As Steve has pointed out, the flow of these undergravel filters is sometimes reversed either by using powerheads applied in that direction or by using a canister filter, where the flow is directed down the "lift" tubes and up through the gravel instead. This can be most beneficial, if the use of an undergravel filter is still preferred (I don't recommend them), since it presents the opportunity for the water to be pre-filtered of organic matter before reaching the U.G. filter, as is always the best scenario when using these types of filters. The substrate is then only doing the job of a biological filter in this case, not as a physical/partical filter, so nothing can build up. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gregg Bender" <greggb57@...> wrote: > > I agree with Lenny. I've only had UGF for over thirty years. > > I use a Python gravel washer to clean the gravel and suck out the > waste from under the plates. One trick I use is to carefully clear the > gravel around from the lift tube sockets and place the Python over > them. Then I turn the water up as high as I can to pull all the waste > out through the holes. Then I just replace the uplift tubes and work > on the gravel. > > It actually takes awhile to clean a 55 gallon tank with one of these. > You won't empty a 55 gallon setup in a minute or two. More like 20 > minutes. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26296	From: babsdvs	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Angels

Hi Group: I am finally ready to add my final fish to my 30g tank - my angels. I was hoping to add two, but recently read an article that said you should have either one or more than three because if you have two, one would suffer. I can't have more than three in my community tank and the only way I could have two would be to find a breeding pair? I would be fine having only one - but would he/she be fine? I also read they are predatory to little fish, so maybe the singleton would enjoy being alone? The current fish I have in a planted tank are: 5 zebra danios (yep they are still alive), 2 female swordtails (I would like more, later), 2 honey gouramis (lovely and small), and 3 bandit corey cats. Barbara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26297	From: ED	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angels

I've had 2 angels in a tank(with serpias, bala, cory's, and giant danios) without any real fussing. IE- no fin damage. They may try for the danios and the swords, The gouramis should be OK. I've got 6 angels and have yet to determine sex for any of them. Frustrating. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> wrote: > > Hi Group: > > I am finally ready to add my final fish to my 30g tank - my angels. I > was hoping to add two, but recently read an article that said you > should have either one or more than three because if you have two, one > would suffer. I can't have more than three in my community tank and the > only way I could have two would be to find a breeding pair? I would be > fine having only one - but would he/she be fine? I also read they are > predatory to little fish, so maybe the singleton would enjoy being > alone? The current fish I have in a planted tank are: 5 zebra danios > (yep they are still alive), 2 female swordtails (I would like more, > later), 2 honey gouramis (lovely and small), and 3 bandit corey cats. > > Barbara >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26298	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Undergravel Filters

"...albeit its unfortunate waste of clean water necessary to operated it. Ray" Ray, I don't really consider it a waste of clean water since the water will be going down the drain to be processed, eventually evaporating to form a new cloud somewhere, only to start the cycle all over. lol If someone uses an outside spigot, then the water, along with the sucked up detritus and tank water, could be used to water gardens, lawns, etc. so there would be no waste. Now, if one is paying exorbitant rates for water, then that may be a waste but down here in the burb's of New Orleans, I pay $5.07 for the first 6,000 gallons every two months so it's 10 gallons for less than a penny so it's well worth it to me to use the Python rather than lugging 5G buckets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 9:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Undergravel Filters Paula, There are pro's and con's to the benefits/drawbacks of undergravel filters, and while they can do a good job, their use is often disuaded by the more experienced aquarists. When you ask "how do you actually clean these things?", these things (the filter medium itself) are actually the substrate which is filtering out your water; the undergravel filters themselves are merely the instruments which pulls the water through the substrate, they don't actually "filter" the water. Since it can be difficult at times making sure you get all the debris cleaned from your substrate (especially since you can't see it to know you're getting to it), these filters are known to induce varying degrees of acidic water (sometimes detrimentally so) in varying time- frames (sometimes quite fast) as a natural process of organic matter being broken down. The rate if this of course would be due to how much organic debris is left behind. One must maintain a rigid and thorough regimen of cleaning the substrate along with proper PWC's. There are various designs of gravel cleaning equipment, some hand operated and some battery operated, of different efficiencies. Not having used a Python, and as a result possibly being wrong on this, I would think that if the faucet flow were to be kept low that this piece should do as well a job with the substrate of a 2 or 3 gallon tank as it would do for your 29 or 55 gallon tanks, without emptying these small tanks too fast (unless a certain minimum flow rate is needed). Python gravel cleaner attachments are still one of the best maintenance apparati available to the hobbyist, albeit its unfortunate waste of clean water necessary to operated it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Paula Brown" <browngip@...> wrote: > > I have been "into" fish for many years but never had an undergravel filter system before (they came with my numerous two and three-gallon tanks and my five-gallon tank). How do you actually clean these things? I am guessing that using a siphon isn't enough to get everything from the underground filter. > > Speaking of cleaning, is there such a thing as a small siphon/gravel cleaner for small tanks? If I were to use the one I use on my 29-gallon and 55-gallon, these tanks would be emptied in a heartbeat. > > I do regular PWC's on all these tanks but still would like to clean the gravel sometimes. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1309 - Release Date: 3/3/2008 6:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26299	From: ED	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Used Water

We use the water that is siphoned from the tanks to water our plants. Fertilizer and water.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26300	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Undergravel Filters

Lenny, In the grand scheme of things this is quite true, nothing on this planet is ever "wasted," unless in human terms (in this case, a waste of human effort to use stored and/or purified water earmarked for our use). As the old law of physics states: neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another. So, except for man's space endeavors (and the constantly replenished upper atmospheric gases that are blown off as a result of solar winds), nothing on earth ever leaves this planet and is always somehow re-used. A concern with the use of these water changers might come up during a severe drought since even lawns are usually not allowed to be watered, considering that to be a "waste" of good drinking water. You're fortunate though, in that your water bill is so low. I seem to recall this subject coming up a while back, but don't remember exactly. Anyway my water is charged in units per 100 cubic feet (750 gallons), with each "unit" costing $2.57 (per 750 gallons), billed quarterly; not cheap!. Thats bad enough; on top of that there's a quarterly "Facilities Charge" of $12.94 (flat rate) which is to pay to get the water to your house -- their infrastructure of water mains, etc. So you can see how that can add up fast with using it to power PWC's with a Python on any number of tanks. It would cost me a small fortune if I were to use a Python weekly to change out 50% (or even 35%) of the 2500 gallons of water I maintain in my tanks. While this device is really helpful and a great work saver, its really meant for a hobbyist with only a few tanks, or at least around here (Northern NJ) that's about all it can economically be used for. Many of us with any good number of tanks use a system of a set of garden hoses with an electric pump to remove the tank water, if we don't already have an automatic water changing system installed. Then, either a different garden hose to refill the tanks from the faucet (different -- to prevent any possible contamination), or in my case, I use a system of overhead PVC piping supplying all the tanks powered by a pump which is supplied by 4 storage tanks, totaling 500 gallon (to which I pump my private well water, instead of tap water) A few of us in this area have our own private wells we use just for our aquariums -- its infinitely of much better quality. So, as you see, I'm fortunate in that I don't pay a thing for as much water as I want to use, only the electricity to power the pumps (including the well pump). No need to have a pump removing the waste water when it gets forced down the drain (from the incoming new water) with an automated system. Anyhow, Pythons are just not affordable to run up around these parts -- and would be a "waste of money." Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > I don't really consider it a waste of clean water since the water will be > going down the drain to be processed, eventually evaporating to form a new > cloud somewhere, only to start the cycle all over. lol > > If someone uses an outside spigot, then the water, along with the sucked up > detritus and tank water, could be used to water gardens, lawns, etc. so > there would be no waste. > > Now, if one is paying exorbitant rates for water, then that may be a waste > but down here in the burb's of New Orleans, I pay $5.07 for the first 6,000 > gallons every two months so it's 10 gallons for less than a penny so it's > well worth it to me to use the Python rather than lugging 5G buckets. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 9:36 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Undergravel Filters > > Python gravel cleaner attachments are still > one of the best maintenance apparati available to the hobbyist, albeit its an > unfortunate waste of clean water necessary to operated it. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26301	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water

Okay, then it looks like you're not exactly wasting the water. Not knowing how many gallons we're talking about, I presume then that you have enough plants to keep watered week after week as you do your PWC's (?). If you have a smaller set up of just a few tanks, I guess that would be feasible. Has anyone figured out how many gallons of tap water it takes to pull out one gallon of tank water at a level head height (at a height no higher than the tank top level which its being pulled up over, but no lower either)? A lower Python end will cause the water to exit just by syphoning once the water flow is started by the faucet and can be shut off there-after. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > We use the water that is siphoned from the tanks to water our plants. > Fertilizer and water. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26302	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: guppies,please help!!!!

Guppies can have babies every 28 days.I would suggest either floating plants for cover or buying a plant mat,they are available at any of the big chains or both.I always some of the mat on the sides of my tanks(turned vertically) and have had great luck with it in all of my livebearers tanks.In my experience,the babies like the upper edges of the aquarium,and by putting the mat against the back or side wall of the aquarium,the adults can't pick them off by swimming under,as with live plants.Within a few months,u will have more babies than u know what to do with. Out of curiosity,what size tank do u have? My babies develop the gravid(dark brown spot) long before they are old enough to bear.Easiest way to sex guppies when they are fry. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "circus0s" <circus0s@...> wrote: > > Hi > im new to this group. > I just got 3 guppies(1male 2females) > and my 1 of my female gave birth to babies, > by the time i saw them there was only one left alive > and the female still has a dark brown spot on her belly, > will she be ok? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26303	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Guppies reference page

www.guppies.com is a good reference site for guppies.You don't have to wade thru info on any other species.They have an amazing guppy gallery.Guppies are not the generic fish they were when I started with them over 30 years ago. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sheriartist57" <sheriartist57@...> wrote: > > Guppies can have babies every 28 days.I would suggest either floating > plants for cover or buying a plant mat,they are available at any of > the big chains or both.I always some of the mat on the sides of my > tanks(turned vertically) and have had great luck with it in all of my > livebearers tanks.In my experience,the babies like the upper edges of > the aquarium,and by putting the mat against the back or side wall of > the aquarium,the adults can't pick them off by swimming under,as with > live plants.Within a few months,u will have more babies than u know > what to do with. > Out of curiosity,what size tank do u have? > My babies develop the gravid(dark brown spot) long before they are old > enough to bear.Easiest way to sex guppies when they are fry. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "circus0s" <circus0s@> wrote: > > > > Hi > > im new to this group. > > I just got 3 guppies(1male 2females) > > and my 1 of my female gave birth to babies, > > by the time i saw them there was only one left alive > > and the female still has a dark brown spot on her belly, > > will she be ok? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26304	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Concerned and curious?

I have been reading up on my fancy tail zebra danios and from what I read as soon as they spawn they scatter their eggs as long as there is a male to fertilize them. Well three (I have 6) of mine have had big stomaches now for weeks. Can/will they die if their is no male? Will those that know more how this works with the danios please fill me in on whats correct and false and what I need to do or not do? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26305	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Quality Fish Stores in Cleveland Ohio?

Pet Solutions - 802 N. Orchard Lane, Beavercreek, OH 45434 Phone: 1-800-737-3868 I do not this this site has a local retail shop,however you would get overnight at regular shipping prices I like the manager over live shipping,John Flynn.He is very personable and easy to deal with. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@... wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I am looking for a quality and knowledgeable store in or near Cleveland Ohio > for fresh water fish and live plants. Has anyone had any good experiences > or knowledge about this location? > > thanks > > Ken > > > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26306	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Concerned and curious?

Can you take some pics? My females always had bigger bellies and were wider than the males. It was one of the ways to sex them. See the picture and content on this page. http://www.fishforever.co.uk/zebradanios.html If your females resemble this one, in comparison, they you should not have a problem. It's also the reason to have more females than males since the males are more streamlined and can swim faster so they can really bully a female and nip her fins during mating periods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Concerned and curious? I have been reading up on my fancy tail zebra danios and from what I read as soon as they spawn they scatter their eggs as long as there is a male to fertilize them. Well three (I have 6) of mine have had big stomaches now for weeks. Can/will they die if their is no male? Will those that know more how this works with the danios please fill me in on whats correct and false and what I need to do or not do? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1309 - Release Date: 3/3/2008 6:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26307	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Concerned and curious?

I have tried to take pics but they are always on the go but I will try again. They did not have these huge bellies when I got them. They started growing the big bellies about a week after my b/f brought me my 4th danio as a gift. I have since gotten one more male and one female but they all look the same except my one smaller one with the very long and pretty fins and tail -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Concerned and curious? Can you take some pics? My females always had bigger bellies and were wider than the males. It was one of the ways to sex them. See the picture and content on this page. http://www.fishforever.co.uk/zebradanios.html If your females resemble this one, in comparison, they you should not have a problem It's also the reason to have more females than males since the males are more streamlined and can swim faster so they can really bully a female and nip her fins during mating periods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Concerned and curious? I have been reading up on my fancy tail zebra danios and from what I read as soon as they spawn they scatter their eggs as long as there is a male to fertilize them. Well three (I have 6) of mine have had big stomaches now for weeks. Can/will they die if their is no male? Will those that know more how this works with the danios please fill me in on whats correct and false and what I need to do or not do? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1309 - Release Date: 3/3/2008 6:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26308	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Tank mate suggestions.

Hi Jenn, This is a late reply, catching up on email now. You can keep Java fern and Anubias if they are attached to rocks or wood. I keep a variety of cichlids and those are live plants I do not hesitate to place in cichlid tanks. Attach them to a piece of driftwood or rock with cotton thread until they take hold of the rock or wood. The cotton should eventually break down or rot away. or you can cut it off to keep it from floating into an intake impellor on your filter. -Mike I know not to bother with the live plants since they will all get dug up anyway. This is to be a tank of small/medium South/Central American cichlids. Thanks in advance for the info. jenn -----Original Message----- From: Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 7:46 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank mate suggestions. I am having my LFS get me some of the "T-bar" cichlids that I have been talking about. I will be setting up my 56 gallon column tank for them. I am looking for suggestions on how many I should get (1 pair or 2 or more) and suitable tank mates (Firemouth, green terror...)and some bottom feeders. I know not to bother with the live plants since they will all get dug up anyway. This is to be a tank of small/medium South/Central American cichlids. Thanks in advance for the info. jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26309	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water

Ray, When I had a number of tanks, and was using a Python to do water changes, I used the tap water to start the siphon, and then shut it off. While I did not have much of a height differential, it was enough to get the job done, albeit slowly. All went into a trash barrel, where it was pumped out of the cellar into the gardens and lawn with a sump pump. Worked very well for a good number of years. It also kept the lawn and garden areas that were the recipients of the water growing very well. When it became necessary to cut back severely, rapidly, I went back to a siphon hose and bucket, but the water still went outside, with some being used indoors, for the house plants, during the cold weather. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Used Water Okay, then it looks like you're not exactly wasting the water. Not knowing how many gallons we're talking about, I presume then that you have enough plants to keep watered week after week as you do your PWC's (?). If you have a smaller set up of just a few tanks, I guess that would be feasible. Has anyone figured out how many gallons of tap water it takes to pull out one gallon of tank water at a level head height (at a height no higher than the tank top level which its being pulled up over, but no lower either)? A lower Python end will cause the water to exit just by syphoning once the water flow is started by the faucet and can be shut off there-after. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > We use the water that is siphoned from the tanks to water our plants. > Fertilizer and water. > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26310	From: Tim Fairchild	Date: 3/4/2008
Subject: Re: Rainbow fish reference site

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:34:29 pm sheriartist57 wrote: > http://members.optusnet.com.au/chelmon/Melano.htm > In cruising on Google,I ran across this site which has as many > rainbowfish from New Guinea originally and from Australia as I have > seen.I could find lists before,but this has the history,environment > and photos.If u r interested in Rainbows,check this out. > If anyone has had success in raising them,please drop me a line.I am > fascinated by this species,but know little about raising them.I > currently have a dozen of various well known available types. > Enjoy!Sheri I have splendida splendida in a 200l tank here. They are local to my area. I had 8 of them and they spawned in the tank in December 2006. I put some eggs and fry in a small tank, but lost most of those (there were jillions) and the ones I still have now survived in the main tank with the adults, who did not eat them. I had some surface plant cover and the fry stay on the surface while the adults tend to swim and eat at mid level. They tend to spawn around the wet season here when it gets hot (tank temp gets up to 32C. And you can really get them going with a 50-80% water change with rain water at that time. The fry are very very tiny and need crushed flake, or natural foods, green water, etc. They are so tiny you can't really see them without looking very hard. They are very slow to grow for a start. Takes forever for them to look like fish. But the guys here are 14months old now. I kept 6 of the babies, two male and the rest female. They range about 5-7cm long now. They didn't spawn this year as I lost my big male and only have the young guys, tho one male is getting quite big. Not sure what age of maturity is. Here are some pix when they were about 2-3mm long http://bcs4me.com/xfry01.jpg http://bcs4me.com/xfry02.jpg http://bcs4me.com/xfry03.jpg And here as they look now: http://bcs4me.com/xrf01.jpg Most of these are young fish born December 2006. The slightly larger female in the low center is actually a lot older, at least 4 years old, but small for some reason. The two males along the center line are both 14months old. tim -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tim Fairchild Atchafalaya Border Collies. Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email mailto:tim@... Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf Blog http://bcs4me.com/blog BC Forum http://bcs4me.com/forum Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bcsr4ever ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26311	From: ED	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water

I don't use the water powered siphons, And yes I have 6acres to spread the water around. The roses love it. Oh! Yeah. 1-55gal, 1- 29gal, 2-10gal and 1-2.5gal and yes PWC every week. We also put feeder goldfish in our water trough, Keeps the mosquitos down, They get a PWC everyday. Our last ones went 5yrs before a dern Sandhill Crane found our lil snacks. I waited about 1 month before replacing them. LOL. I love birds but really don't want them eating my fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Okay, then it looks like you're not exactly wasting the water. Not > knowing how many gallons we're talking about, I presume then that you > have enough plants to keep watered week after week as you do your PWC's > (?). If you have a smaller set up of just a few tanks, I guess that > would be feasible. Has anyone figured out how many gallons of tap > water it takes to pull out one gallon of tank water at a level head > height (at a height no higher than the tank top level which its being > pulled up over, but no lower either)? A lower Python end will cause > the water to exit just by syphoning once the water flow is started by > the faucet and can be shut off there-after. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > We use the water that is siphoned from the tanks to water our plants. > > Fertilizer and water. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26312	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water

\\Steve//, Using your Python as a syphon once you start it with your faucet is an efficient way to use it whenever possible, even though when the height difference isn't that much it will take longer. But as long as you had the spare time, you were able to save a lot of tap water. Using a pump after that to get it up out of the cellar was a smart move, instead of trying to use the Python and tap water to do that part of the job. I'd guess that a good many hobbyists may be able to let the water flow (syphon) into a nearby shower or bathtub, when conveniently located, but those low tanks on wrought iron double stands and fish tank racks present a problem there. I all too well remember the old syphon hose and bucket method I too used many years ago. Only had about 25 or 30 tanks back then, but that was enough to make water changing day a real chore. Except for the love of the fish, its almost enough to make one swear off of fish for life (LOL). BTW, the only Pythons in existance those days were found in the equatorial jungles. Ray P.S.: I didn't yet mention the filter maintenance part in those days -- when the ONLY solids-catching medium for HOB and internal bottom filters was glass wool! Now THAT was F U N to work with. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > When I had a number of tanks, and was using a Python to do water changes, I used the tap water to start the siphon, and then shut it off. While I did not have much of a height differential, it was enough to get the job done, albeit slowly. All went into a trash barrel, where it was pumped out of the cellar into the gardens and lawn with a sump pump. Worked very well for a good number of years. It also kept the lawn and garden areas that were the recipients of the water growing very well. > > When it became necessary to cut back severely, rapidly, I went back to a siphon hose and bucket, but the water still went outside, with some being used indoors, for the house plants, during the cold weather. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Used Water > > Okay, then it looks like you're not exactly wasting the water. Not > knowing how many gallons we're talking about, I presume then that you > have enough plants to keep watered week after week as you do your PWC's > (?). If you have a smaller set up of just a few tanks, I guess that > would be feasible. Has anyone figured out how many gallons of tap > water it takes to pull out one gallon of tank water at a level head > height (at a height no higher than the tank top level which its being > pulled up over, but no lower either)? A lower Python end will cause > the water to exit just by syphoning once the water flow is started by > the faucet and can be shut off there-after. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > We use the water that is siphoned from the tanks to water our plants. > > Fertilizer and water. > > > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26313	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Lights and algae

I can't remember if it was someone one here...but someone told me that leaving my tank lights on could cause algae...is that right? This sounds really bad, but I am looking to grow SOME algae in my tanks. I wanted to get these two little algae eaters...but my tanks haven't been set up very long (one-less than a month. the other maybe at the most 2 weeks). So I have been trying to feed them the algae discs/wafers that they are supposed to eat. They're not eating them...the discs absorb the water, crumble, and make a mess in the rocks...that's when the fish don't eat them up. So my algae eaters are frantically "tasting" every inch of the glass and I think they aren't finding food. I have had them since Sunday, and they may not have eaten hardly at all (IF at all) since then...what can I do??? Thanks, anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Lights and algae

What kind of "algae eaters" are they? There are hundreds, if not thousands of species of "algae eaters". Try taking a slice of zucchini and drop it in the tank overnight and see if they eat at it. They should. If not, remove it in the morning. A lesson learned though... it's not good to buy fish without doing a little research first. Most newer tanks cannot support a single algae eater, much less two but then there are some species like otocinclus that should be kept in shoals of five or more so they should go into a well established tank. Another example, I recently bought a new little clown pleco (one of the dwarf species) and they are finicky about what they will eat and mostly only like algae so I had to make sure I had plenty growing in the tank I was planning him for so that he would have plenty of algae to eat prior to getting him. Once they are acclimated to a tank, you can then work on weaning them onto algae wafers, etc., but if they are wild caught fish, they may take a while to get acclimated to commercial foods. He's in a 65G tank and I'm sure he'll have it cleaned up in the next week or so and then I'll have to work on getting him acclimated to algae wafers, veggies, etc. Keep trying the algae wafers and zucchini slices also but don't drop it into the tank until after lights out and only drop a small piece if the fish are small. I feed pieces of algae wafers to my cherry shrimp to supplement their diet and I break the algae wafer up and the piece I drop into their tank is about the size of a pencil point and that feeds close to a hundred cherry shrimp for an hour or so. The good thing about the zucchini slices is at least they won't disintegrate over night so you won't have that issue. Do you have any decorations, etc., in another tank with algae on it that you could put in their tank? Do you know anyone with healthy fish tanks where you could borrow one of their algae covered items? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lights and algae I can't remember if it was someone one here...but someone told me that leaving my tank lights on could cause algae...is that right? This sounds really bad, but I am looking to grow SOME algae in my tanks. I wanted to get these two little algae eaters...but my tanks haven't been set up very long (one-less than a month. the other maybe at the most 2 weeks). So I have been trying to feed them the algae discs/wafers that they are supposed to eat. They're not eating them...the discs absorb the water, crumble, and make a mess in the rocks...that's when the fish don't eat them up. So my algae eaters are frantically "tasting" every inch of the glass and I think they aren't finding food. I have had them since Sunday, and they may not have eaten hardly at all (IF at all) since then...what can I do??? Thanks, anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1312 - Release Date: 3/4/2008 9:46 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26315	From: sim.amaranth	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: is RO water absolutely necessary for Discus?

I have recently splashed out (excuse the pun) on a Aqua One Regency 80 180l tank - i have planted it up and am in the process of fishless cycling it. I would dearly like to keep around 3 discus, a large shoal of neon or cardinal tetras and a pair of kribensis - but i am panicking about the Discus. I have never kept discus before and the more i read the more i am confused and nervous about it. My basic tap water conditions appear favourable with low KH and GH and a PH of around 6.5 - but everything i read (apart from the last article on the Devotedly Discus website) is telling me to use RO water. But to be honest i'd rather not, we have a modest house and a young family and the (to be honest) hassle involved really puts me off - plus (although i don't know what other nasties are lurking) my basic water appears suitable. However i am aware that you should also match the water conditions of your fish supplier - i fear though that most of these will also use the dreaded RO water. Can any of you offer some advice, i'd greatly appreciate it!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26316	From: bruce cohen	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: is RO water absolutely necessary for Discus?

being a discus breeder and one that raises discus as well as angelfish both do better in ro only for breedeing but if you are just going to keep them then dechlorinated tap water since the ph is 6.5 then you should have no problem with the discus.But I suggest that you get a school of rummy nose tetras if their is something wrong the rummy nose tetras will tell you long before the discus do, what strains are you plannig to keep? "sim.amaranth" <sim.amaranth@...> wrote: I have recently splashed out (excuse the pun) on a Aqua One Regency 80 180l tank - i have planted it up and am in the process of fishless cycling it. I would dearly like to keep around 3 discus, a large shoal of neon or cardinal tetras and a pair of kribensis - but i am panicking about the Discus. I have never kept discus before and the more i read the more i am confused and nervous about it. My basic tap water conditions appear favourable with low KH and GH and a PH of around 6.5 - but everything i read (apart from the last article on the Devotedly Discus website) is telling me to use RO water. But to be honest i'd rather not, we have a modest house and a young family and the (to be honest) hassle involved really puts me off - plus (although i don't know what other nasties are lurking) my basic water appears suitable. However i am aware that you should also match the water conditions of your fish supplier - i fear though that most of these will also use the dreaded RO water. Can any of you offer some advice, i'd greatly appreciate it!! --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26317	From: Nicolette Wall	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Help!! I have a question about my fish.

Hi Lenny, My fish seems to have the problems after it eats a lot. I noticed that my other fish is starting to too. Thank you for answering my question! ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 8:18:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! I have a question about my fish. Hi Nicolette, Your fish that is having trouble is either experiencing swim bladder issues or gastrointestinal issues (gas). Is it happening all of the time or only after eating or ??? Tell us a lot more about your tank, what kind of fish you have, the fish that is having problems, how long you've had them, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nicolettewall Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! I have a question about my fish. Im new to having fish and i have about 14. My one fish has problems sinking and floating sometimes. Usually my fish swims normal but sometimes my fish stays at the surface and is upside-down. He try's to swim down to the bottom but he can't, he just twists and turns and ends up floating back up to the surface. I feel bad for the poor thing and i would really like to know what is wrong with him. If anyone has any clue, please let me know. Thanks, Nicolette No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7..5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1295 - Release Date: 2/23/2008 9:35 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26318	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: is RO water absolutely necessary for Discus?

Bruce, Contrary to what you have have been lead to believe, while Discus will of course breed just great in RO water, for their long-term health they should never be kept in pure RO water, but in RO water mixed with tap water to the desired hardness and conductivity, if your tapwater is too high in TDS. I find them easily bred up to about 3.5 dGH, for tank-reared breeders although wild breeders prefer the hardness at little more than 2. Still, even at that low of hardness, there are still enough carbonates in the water to sustain good health and prevent minerals (calcium, etc.) from being slowly leached from them. This is one reason why the juveniles do so well with growing in slighly harder, moderately alkaline water. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26319	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Help!! I have a question about my fish.

It may be the food that you are feeding them. You never answered what kind of fish. Tell us what kind of fish and what brand/kind of food and we can give you better information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicolette Wall Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help!! I have a question about my fish. Hi Lenny, My fish seems to have the problems after it eats a lot. I noticed that my other fish is starting to too. Thank you for answering my question! ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 8:18:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! I have a question about my fish. Hi Nicolette, Your fish that is having trouble is either experiencing swim bladder issues or gastrointestinal issues (gas). Is it happening all of the time or only after eating or ??? Tell us a lot more about your tank, what kind of fish you have, the fish that is having problems, how long you've had them, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nicolettewall Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! I have a question about my fish. Im new to having fish and i have about 14. My one fish has problems sinking and floating sometimes. Usually my fish swims normal but sometimes my fish stays at the surface and is upside-down. He try's to swim down to the bottom but he can't, he just twists and turns and ends up floating back up to the surface. I feel bad for the poor thing and i would really like to know what is wrong with him. If anyone has any clue, please let me know. Thanks, Nicolette No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1312 - Release Date: 3/4/2008 9:46 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26320	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Rainbow fish reference site

Wonderful macrophotography on your rainbow fry!!! The adults are beautiful. I would love to have some breeding pairs I have found that my fry,whether livebearers or others,have done well enough as long as I keep some cover for them.I am not looking to sell them,so I just let nature run its course,and have had alot more survivors than I thought I would.I know the professionals always say to remove the fry,but I have had more success leaving them in same water conditions,etc as adults.I had more losses removing them and letting them grow out,and they ended up being alot smaller than the ones I "missed" Exactly which species is this rainbowfish? I know them by the common names,and have a plethora of books with scientific.Thanks for the pics. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Tim Fairchild <tim@...> wrote: > > On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:34:29 pm sheriartist57 wrote: > > http://members.optusnet.com.au/chelmon/Melano.htm > > In cruising on Google,I ran across this site which has as many > > rainbowfish from New Guinea originally and from Australia as I have > > seen.I could find lists before,but this has the history,environment > > and photos.If u r interested in Rainbows,check this out. > > If anyone has had success in raising them,please drop me a line.I am > > fascinated by this species,but know little about raising them.I > > currently have a dozen of various well known available types. > > Enjoy!Sheri > > I have splendida splendida in a 200l tank here. They are local to my area. > > I had 8 of them and they spawned in the tank in December 2006. I put some eggs > and fry in a small tank, but lost most of those (there were jillions) and the > ones I still have now survived in the main tank with the adults, who did not > eat them. I had some surface plant cover and the fry stay on the surface > while the adults tend to swim and eat at mid level. > > They tend to spawn around the wet season here when it gets hot (tank temp gets > up to 32C. And you can really get them going with a 50-80% water change with > rain water at that time. > > The fry are very very tiny and need crushed flake, or natural foods, green > water, etc. They are so tiny you can't really see them without looking very > hard. > > They are very slow to grow for a start. Takes forever for them to look like > fish. > > But the guys here are 14months old now. I kept 6 of the babies, two male and > the rest female. They range about 5-7cm long now. > > They didn't spawn this year as I lost my big male and only have the young > guys, tho one male is getting quite big. Not sure what age of maturity is. > > Here are some pix when they were about 2-3mm long > http://bcs4me.com/xfry01.jpg > http://bcs4me.com/xfry02.jpg > http://bcs4me.com/xfry03.jpg > > And here as they look now: > http://bcs4me.com/xrf01.jpg > > Most of these are young fish born December 2006. The slightly larger female in > the low center is actually a lot older, at least 4 years old, but small for > some reason. The two males along the center line are both 14months old. > > tim > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Tim Fairchild > Atchafalaya Border Collies. > Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email mailto:tim@... > Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com > Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf > Blog http://bcs4me.com/blog > BC Forum http://bcs4me.com/forum > Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bcsr4ever > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26321	From: ED	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: is RO water absolutely necessary for Discus?

OK I'm lost big time RO water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Bruce, Contrary to what you have have been lead to believe, while Discus > will of course breed just great in RO water, for their long-term health they > should never be kept in pure RO water, but in RO water mixed with tap water to the > desired hardness and conductivity, if your tapwater is too high in TDS. I > find them easily bred up to about 3.5 dGH, for tank-reared breeders although > wild breeders prefer the hardness at little more than 2. Still, even at that low > of hardness, there are still enough carbonates in the water to sustain good > health and prevent minerals (calcium, etc.) from being slowly leached from > them. This is one reason why the juveniles do so well with growing in slighly > harder, moderately alkaline water. Ray </HTML> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26322	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angels

In a message dated 3/4/2008 12:31:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, crowstarwalker@... writes: I've had 2 angels in a tank(with serpias, bala, cory's, and giant danios) without any real fussing. IE- no fin damage. Thanks - I've been window shopping and probably will buy 2 little marbles and see how they do. And, by the way, your angel photos - and fish - are beautiful!! **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26323	From: ED	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angels

TY we got 2 that were so small we initially had them in with our guppy babies( just weeks old) Then the 29 now they've made it to the 55 WOOOOOHOOOO BIG BLUE! LOL. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Maxmillionmaxcat@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/4/2008 12:31:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, > crowstarwalker@... writes: > > I've had 2 angels in a tank(with serpias, bala, cory's, and giant > danios) without any real fussing. IE- no fin damage. > > > Thanks - I've been window shopping and probably will buy 2 little marbles > and see how they do. And, by the way, your angel photos - and fish - are > beautiful!! > > > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26324	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: is RO water absolutely necessary for Discus?

Ed, I presume you're lost as to the meaning of "RO" water(?). RO water is short for "Reverse Osmosis water," a process by which pure water can be obtained. There is an apparatus offered in a number of similar styles (& capacities), by some leading manufacturers of aquarium equipment, which converts mineral laden tap water into pure mineral-free water with the use of a permeable membrane which allows only the pure water to pass through and retains the minerals in the "waste water." Nothing wrong with this waste water BTW, if you want to use it for Rift Lake Cichlids which prefer this type of mineral-rich water. This "RO water" is often used as a diluter of tap water to greatly reduce the mineral content of the aquarium water meant for soft water loving fish such as are found in the Amazon Basin (Discus, Angels, Tetras, etc.), especially when breeding these fish. With some of these fish (Discus, for instance), their eggs will not hatch if the mineral content of the water is above certain criteria. Part of the reason for these eggs failing to hatch is that when they're exposed to hard water, the egg shells harden too fast to allow them to be fertilized. Mineral content in the water = electrolytes, and electrolytes = conductivity. For Discus eggs to hatch properly, the conductivity of the water must not exceed 90 microseimens, which is equivilent approximately to water of a GH of 3.5 (around 60 ppm of any combination of calcium, magnesium and boron salts). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > OK I'm lost big time RO water? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > Bruce, Contrary to what you have have been lead to believe, while > Discus > > will of course breed just great in RO water, for their long-term > health they > > should never be kept in pure RO water, but in RO water mixed with > tap water to the > > desired hardness and conductivity, if your tapwater is too high in > TDS. I > > find them easily bred up to about 3.5 dGH, for tank-reared breeders > although > > wild breeders prefer the hardness at little more than 2. Still, > even at that low > > of hardness, there are still enough carbonates in the water to > sustain good > > health and prevent minerals (calcium, etc.) from being slowly > leached from > > them. This is one reason why the juveniles do so well with growing > in slighly > > harder, moderately alkaline water. Ray </HTML> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26325	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: "old-school" gravel cleaner?

Years ago I had a little dip-tube gravel cleaner that you opened and put filter floss in. You would hold your thumb over a rigid tube, insert the little filter floss containing bulb into the tank, and then let your thumb off. Water would rush into the little bulb, and then you would lift it up out of the water, and goo in the gravel was trapped in the filter floss. Anyone else ever had one of these? I had it in the EARLY 80s...but can't seem to find one in existence today. It was a NEAT little gravel cleaner! If anyone has one--let me know. Amanda

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26326	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Plant Stand

I have recently acquired a 10 gallon tank. A have a wood (strudy) stand but it will be one inch too short on each end of the ten gallon tank. Having one inch hanging slightly over the stand. Would this be a problem? I don't want to set up this tank if having once inch hanging off the wood stand would unbalance the tank. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26327	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Stand

I would want the entire frame of my tank to be supported by the stand. It would be a problem for me. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Stand I have recently acquired a 10 gallon tank. A have a wood (strudy) stand but it will be one inch too short on each end of the ten gallon tank. Having one inch hanging slightly over the stand. Would this be a problem? I don't want to set up this tank if having once inch hanging off the wood stand would unbalance the tank. Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26328	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water

Yes, Ray, polyester is a real blessing. For those tanks with substrate, the allotted portion of substrate was vacuumed, and the end of that, usually meant the end of the water change, as the requisite amount of water had been removed. In the bare bottom tanks, I would do the scraping of algae or whatever might be required while the water siphoned. I had it down to a system, and it really did not take much time at all. The only downside was having to shovel out the bulkhead after every snow in the winter so I could move the hose outside to get rid of the waste water. Fortunately, it was in a relatively protected area, and did not get all the snow that it may have otherwise. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Used Water \\Steve//, Using your Python as a syphon once you start it with your faucet is an efficient way to use it whenever possible, even though when the height difference isn't that much it will take longer. But as long as you had the spare time, you were able to save a lot of tap water. Using a pump after that to get it up out of the cellar was a smart move, instead of trying to use the Python and tap water to do that part of the job. I'd guess that a good many hobbyists may be able to let the water flow (syphon) into a nearby shower or bathtub, when conveniently located, but those low tanks on wrought iron double stands and fish tank racks present a problem there. I all too well remember the old syphon hose and bucket method I too used many years ago. Only had about 25 or 30 tanks back then, but that was enough to make water changing day a real chore. Except for the love of the fish, its almost enough to make one swear off of fish for life (LOL). BTW, the only Pythons in existance those days were found in the equatorial jungles. Ray P.S.: I didn't yet mention the filter maintenance part in those days -- when the ONLY solids-catching medium for HOB and internal bottom filters was glass wool! Now THAT was F U N to work with. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > When I had a number of tanks, and was using a Python to do water changes, I used the tap water to start the siphon, and then shut it off. While I did not have much of a height differential, it was enough to get the job done, albeit slowly. All went into a trash barrel, where it was pumped out of the cellar into the gardens and lawn with a sump pump. Worked very well for a good number of years. It also kept the lawn and garden areas that were the recipients of the water growing very well. > > When it became necessary to cut back severely, rapidly, I went back to a siphon hose and bucket, but the water still went outside, with some being used indoors, for the house plants, during the cold weather. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Used Water > > Okay, then it looks like you're not exactly wasting the water. Not > knowing how many gallons we're talking about, I presume then that you > have enough plants to keep watered week after week as you do your PWC's > (?). If you have a smaller set up of just a few tanks, I guess that > would be feasible. Has anyone figured out how many gallons of tap > water it takes to pull out one gallon of tank water at a level head > height (at a height no higher than the tank top level which its being > pulled up over, but no lower either)? A lower Python end will cause > the water to exit just by syphoning once the water flow is started by > the faucet and can be shut off there-after. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > We use the water that is siphoned from the tanks to water our plants. > > Fertilizer and water. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26329	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Plant Stand

No problem I have a 75 gal. with 1 inch longer than the stand, and It’s there sine 15 years. We talk about 800 pounds here. A 10 gal. is only 100 pounds . -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Donna Ransome Envoyé : March 5, 2008 7:39 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Stand I would want the entire frame of my tank to be supported by the stand. It would be a problem for me. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:12 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Stand I have recently acquired a 10 gallon tank. A have a wood (strudy) stand but it will be one inch too short on each end of the ten gallon tank. Having one inch hanging slightly over the stand. Would this be a problem? I don't want to set up this tank if having once inch hanging off the wood stand would unbalance the tank. Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26330	From: mbsvmonkey	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Stand

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <browngip@...> wrote: > > I have recently acquired a 10 gallon tank. A have a wood (strudy) stand but it will be one inch too short on each end of the ten gallon tank. Having one inch hanging slightly over the stand. Would this be a problem? I don't want to set up this tank if having once inch hanging off the wood stand would unbalance the tank. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > Hey I'am pretty sure that you will be ok. If you set it up exact to where it is the same amount hanging off on both sides. And think about it when you fill that tank up it is going to be very heavy on not move unless of course you ram something straight into it. So best of luck and enjoy your masterpiece. Betty in Ohio

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26331	From: circus0s	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: guppies,please help!!!!

thank you for your help. i have a 20 gal tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sheriartist57" <sheriartist57@...> wrote: > > Guppies can have babies every 28 days.I would suggest either floating > plants for cover or buying a plant mat,they are available at any of > the big chains or both.I always some of the mat on the sides of my > tanks(turned vertically) and have had great luck with it in all of my > livebearers tanks.In my experience,the babies like the upper edges of > the aquarium,and by putting the mat against the back or side wall of > the aquarium,the adults can't pick them off by swimming under,as with > live plants.Within a few months,u will have more babies than u know > what to do with. > Out of curiosity,what size tank do u have? > My babies develop the gravid(dark brown spot) long before they are old > enough to bear.Easiest way to sex guppies when they are fry. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "circus0s" <circus0s@> wrote: > > > > Hi > > im new to this group. > > I just got 3 guppies(1male 2females) > > and my 1 of my female gave birth to babies, > > by the time i saw them there was only one left alive > > and the female still has a dark brown spot on her belly, > > will she be ok? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26332	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 3/5/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Stand

I place my 10's on a microwave cart readily available on all freecycle and craig's lists.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: djransome@...: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 19:39:20 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Stand I would want the entire frame of my tank to be supported by the stand. Itwould be a problem for me._____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Paula BrownSent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:12 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Plant StandI have recently acquired a 10 gallon tank. A have a wood (strudy) stand butit will be one inch too short on each end of the ten gallon tank. Having oneinch hanging slightly over the stand. Would this be a problem? I don't wantto set up this tank if having once inch hanging off the wood stand wouldunbalance the tank.Paula in Monroe, Michigan[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26333	From: Tim Fairchild	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Rainbow fish reference site

On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 04:05:25 am sheriartist57 wrote: > Wonderful macrophotography on your rainbow fry!!! The adults are > beautiful. Hard to get those photos when they are tiny. I spent a few hour leaning over the tank on macro :) > I would love to have some breeding pairs > I have found that my fry,whether livebearers or others,have done well > enough as long as I keep some cover for them.I am not looking to sell > them,so I just let nature run its course,and have had alot more > survivors than I thought I would.I know the professionals always say > to remove the fry,but I have had more success leaving them in same > water conditions,etc as adults.I had more losses removing them and > letting them grow out,and they ended up being alot smaller than the > ones I "missed" Same here. The ones in the tank did better and were always bigger and stronger. The rainbows don't seem to be as bad about eating their own fry as others. > Exactly which species is this rainbowfish? I know them by the common > names,and have a plethora of books with scientific.Thanks for the pics. The guys I have here are local to the area on the queensland coast. They are Eastern Rainbowfish, or Melanotaenia splendida splendida. There is a photo of my old male on wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanotaenia_splendida_splendida They live in the local steams here and are a hardy fish. I like them as they become very people oriented and I have had them in tanks off and on for over 30 years now. tim -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tim Fairchild Atchafalaya Border Collies. Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email mailto:tim@... Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf Blog http://bcs4me.com/blog BC Forum http://bcs4me.com/forum Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bcsr4ever ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26334	From: Blue fish	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C434D56524149425A445146445A515F4F ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C434D56524149425A445146445A515F4F Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C434D56524149425A445146445A515F4B Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26335	From: Rhonda Wilson	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water

I use a python and I never waste water with the changes in my fw tanks. I have a reasonably large fishroom and a long hose on the python. I run the end of the hose out the back door into my trees in the back yard. I start the water by filling the large part, and lifting it above the tank a couple times. This gets the water started. If it's a little slow in getting going, you can just pick up the hose from the top near the tank, and lift it higher, hand over hand to get the water in it running down, and that will suck more water out of the tank to get the flow going. Gravity pulls the water in the hose down and then something needs to fill that empty space it created when it moves, which would be more water from your tank. Unless your tank is sitting on the floor or your house is on the lowest part of your land (which would seem like a very poor idea anyway) then you should be able to get some sort of flow going. Though of course it flows faster and therefor stronger, from a more reasonable height, you can still get them going from pretty low tanks. The only tank I don't drain in the back yard is my sw for, I would hope, are obvious reasons. Rhonda http://naturalaquariums.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26336	From: ED	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: is RO water absolutely necessary for Discus?

Yes I wasn't sure 'RO' , reverse osmosis I am familiar with, I had a science project to build a working model. TY again for the info. 'Sunshine and Gentle Breezes' or should it be 'Clean Water and Healthy Fish'

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26337	From: ED	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Angels

The angels did get moved to a diff. tank when they got large enough. You may find as they grow, They may nees a larger tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > TY we got 2 that were so small we initially had them in with our > guppy babies( just weeks old) Then the 29 now they've made it to the > 55 WOOOOOHOOOO BIG BLUE! LOL. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Maxmillionmaxcat@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 3/4/2008 12:31:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > crowstarwalker@ writes: > > > > I've had 2 angels in a tank(with serpias, bala, cory's, and giant > > danios) without any real fussing. IE- no fin damage. > > > > > > Thanks - I've been window shopping and probably will buy 2 little > marbles > > and see how they do. And, by the way, your angel photos - and fish - > are > > beautiful!! > > > > > > > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL > Money & > > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26338	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water

Rhonda, You're fortunate in being able to drain your waste water right out the back door; that's really convenient. Using your Python with the syphon principle is the most efficient way of taking advantage of it to remove water whenever possible, rather than running it via the faucet/venturi method. Except for such homes as ranch houses and many of those homes in the more southern regions of the country which have no cellars, many hobbyists who have fishrooms have basement fishrooms and unless they have an automatic water- changing drain system in place, need to dispose of their waste water into a utility sink which averages about 34 inches high (unless they're lucky enough to have a floor drain), so unfortunately any low tanks can't be syphoned out using one of one these hoses. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Rhonda Wilson <rhonda@...> wrote: > > I use a python and I never waste water with the changes in my fw tanks. > I have a reasonably large fishroom and a long hose on the python. I run > the end of the hose out the back door into my trees in the back yard. I > start the water by filling the large part, and lifting it above the tank > a couple times. This gets the water started. If it's a little slow in > getting going, you can just pick up the hose from the top near the tank, > and lift it higher, hand over hand to get the water in it running down, > and that will suck more water out of the tank to get the flow going. > Gravity pulls the water in the hose down and then something needs to > fill that empty space it created when it moves, which would be more > water from your tank. Unless your tank is sitting on the floor or your > house is on the lowest part of your land (which would seem like a very > poor idea anyway) then you should be able to get some sort of flow > going. Though of course it flows faster and therefor stronger, from a > more reasonable height, you can still get them going from pretty low > tanks. The only tank I don't drain in the back yard is my sw for, I > would hope, are obvious reasons. > > Rhonda > http://naturalaquariums.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26339	From: Helen Pattskyn	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Lights and algae

I remember reading that excess iron will cause an algae bloom (the same with sunlight / sunlight bulbs); I fertilize every couple of days for my plants and am probably guilty of putting in more than I need to so I got a pleco that I HOPE is really one of the little species - they said he was... Good luck, Helen .......But life goes on and it gets better... and when it doesn't get better, there's always tequila. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26340	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Gravel Cleaner/Siphon

I wrote about looking for a small siphon/gravel cleaner for two, three and five gallon tanks and wrote "If I were to use the one I use on my 29-gallon and 55-gallon, these tanks would be emptied in a heartbeat." Gregg wrote: "It actually takes awhile to clean a 55 gallon tank with one of these. You won't empty a 55 gallon setup in a minute or two. More like 20 minutes." I was saying that if I used the SAME gravel cleaner/siphon that I use on my larger tanks, these tanks would be emptied in no time at all - I was referencing the smaller tanks. Paula

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26341	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Angels

In a message dated 3/6/2008 10:10:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, crowstarwalker@... writes: The angels did get moved to a diff. tank when they got large enough. You may find as they grow, They may nees a larger tank. Yep, I agree with you - I'm going to have to get a larger tank. In this case, size DOES matter. :). Thanks. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26342	From: jgana10	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: disease question

I think my fish have a fungus problem. Several of them have white blotches on their tails (not small ich spots) and the tips of their top and bottom fins are white and sometimes wasting away. One also has their top fin completely clamped down to the body. And some have whitish patches on their bodies (as though they'd been sandpapered). One has very red and raw gills, but that might be something independent. Anyway, I have medicine to give them in a seperate smaller "hospital" tank, as soon as I take out the carbon in the filter as the medicine suggests, within a day or two the ammonia levels shoot up to toxic. I don't want to save them from fungus (if anyone thinks its not fungus but something else let me know) only to have them die from ammonia poisining. Any ideas? I have a 30 gallon main tank with a mix of livebearers, tetras, a loach and angel. And a 5.5 gallon tank I'm using to treat the 7 sick (small) fish. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26343	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water

What? No Rhonda Salt Flats? No Tiny Salt Lake? Come on, where is your imagination? <g> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rhonda Wilson Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 8:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Used Water I use a python and I never waste water with the changes in my fw tanks. I have a reasonably large fishroom and a long hose on the python. I run the end of the hose out the back door into my trees in the back yard. I start the water by filling the large part, and lifting it above the tank a couple times. This gets the water started. If it's a little slow in getting going, you can just pick up the hose from the top near the tank, and lift it higher, hand over hand to get the water in it running down, and that will suck more water out of the tank to get the flow going. Gravity pulls the water in the hose down and then something needs to fill that empty space it created when it moves, which would be more water from your tank. Unless your tank is sitting on the floor or your house is on the lowest part of your land (which would seem like a very poor idea anyway) then you should be able to get some sort of flow going. Though of course it flows faster and therefor stronger, from a more reasonable height, you can still get them going from pretty low tanks. The only tank I don't drain in the back yard is my sw for, I would hope, are obvious reasons. Rhonda http://naturalaquariums.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26344	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Playfull betta

Have a 1st time betta owner question: My betta (which I am thinking of naming Golic, since he doesn't have a name yet), who usually causually swims around has started darting around the tank like he's chasing something, which of course there isn't anyone else in the tank. Any thoughts? As a side note, I plan on bringing the camera into work either tomorrow or Saturday and take some pictures, which I hopefully will post on either photobucket or flickr. Thanks! Rob -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26345	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: disease question

When you are not sure what may be wrong with the fish, the best thing to do is to isolate them, as you have. You will see an ammonia spike if you have not kept the biological filter active in the quarantine tank. What many experienced people do is to keep a sponge filter running in an active tank, so that it can be populated by the bacteria necessary for the nitrogen cycle to function. When it is needed, it is added to the quarantine tank along with the fish. While there may still be a small spike in ammonia, it will be small and pas quickly. Moving 7 fish, even if small, into a 5.5 gallon tank is one way to ensure you will get an ammonia spike, as the tank is over populated. Now that they are in the tank, I'd raise the temp a bit, and add salt to it to start effecting a cure, while trying to determine exactly what it is the fish are suffering from. You do not mention any fuzziness with the white spots you are seeing. If they are fuzzy, then you most likely have a fungus on the fish. If they are not fuzzy, we may be dealing with a parasite of some sort, and the redness of the gills of the one fish, so far, could be a further indication of this. If we could get a bit more information, we may be able to help you more than this. Tell us the water parameters of your main tank, where the fish came from. Tell us what kind of fish they are and how long you have had them. Give us a bit more background of the problem, when you first noticed it, how fast it has progressed, etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jgana10 Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] disease question I think my fish have a fungus problem. Several of them have white blotches on their tails (not small ich spots) and the tips of their top and bottom fins are white and sometimes wasting away. One also has their top fin completely clamped down to the body. And some have whitish patches on their bodies (as though they'd been sandpapered). One has very red and raw gills, but that might be something independent. Anyway, I have medicine to give them in a seperate smaller "hospital" tank, as soon as I take out the carbon in the filter as the medicine suggests, within a day or two the ammonia levels shoot up to toxic. I don't want to save them from fungus (if anyone thinks its not fungus but something else let me know) only to have them die from ammonia poisining. Any ideas? I have a 30 gallon main tank with a mix of livebearers, tetras, a loach and angel. And a 5.5 gallon tank I'm using to treat the 7 sick (small) fish. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26346	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: Angels

With angels, to ensure full fin development, you also need to have a deep tank. The vertical distance from the tip of the dorsal to the tip of the anal fin should be greater than the body length of the fish. The only way to ensure this growth is to keep them in deep water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels In a message dated 3/6/2008 10:10:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, crowstarwalker@... writes: The angels did get moved to a diff. tank when they got large enough. You may find as they grow, They may nees a larger tank. Yep, I agree with you - I'm going to have to get a larger tank. In this case, size DOES matter. :). Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26347	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/6/2008
Subject: Re: disease question

Hi, Generally, all of these kinds of issues start up as a result of water quality issues. What were your readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you have prior to having these issues? How often are you doing PWC's (25% partial water changes)? Are you vacuuming your gravel with each PWC? What is the brand name and type of medicine you are using? Some meds will kill off your nitrifying bacteria so the only thing you can do is frequent PWC's to keep the ammonia levels low enough while treating the fish. When you take the carbon out, are you leaving the rest of the filter media (floss, sponge, etc.) in? What kind of filter system do you have on the 30G? Brand, etc. Go to my blog and I have a long article on doing proper "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" which will give you some ideas on how to possibly modify the way you are doing things and changes you can make to your filter cartridges, presuming that is what you have, so that you always have a fully cycled filter running. What kind of filter system do you have on the 5.5G tank also? What kind of loach do you have? How many livebearers and tetras do you have? If all of these fish are juveniles and you have plans to get another tank or a larger tank, you may be OK, but if you only plan on keeping the 30G tank, then you may be overstocked which could also be contributing to your health issues. Overstocking causes stress issues to fish and when fish get stressed, their immune system falters and they start to get sick. An angelfish should be in a 35G tank as a minimum for long term success. Loaches, depending on the species, can get pretty big and may require a larger tank as well... and most of them should be kept in shoals of three or more which increases their needed tank space even more. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jgana10 Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] disease question I think my fish have a fungus problem. Several of them have white blotches on their tails (not small ich spots) and the tips of their top and bottom fins are white and sometimes wasting away. One also has their top fin completely clamped down to the body. And some have whitish patches on their bodies (as though they'd been sandpapered). One has very red and raw gills, but that might be something independent. Anyway, I have medicine to give them in a seperate smaller "hospital" tank, as soon as I take out the carbon in the filter as the medicine suggests, within a day or two the ammonia levels shoot up to toxic. I don't want to save them from fungus (if anyone thinks its not fungus but something else let me know) only to have them die from ammonia poisining. Any ideas? I have a 30 gallon main tank with a mix of livebearers, tetras, a loach and angel. And a 5.5 gallon tank I'm using to treat the 7 sick (small) fish. Thanks. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.5/1314 - Release Date: 3/5/2008 6:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26348	From: Rhonda Wilson	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water, Salt flats, basements, moving fishrooms, lol

Umm, well I did at one time put my used sw tank water in to a kiddie pool with some caulerpa and a few rocks. Even under a shade cloth the Arizona sun was too much for it and it didn't work. I didn't try that one again. I do regularly keep pools of fw fish and some plants outside. Even with fw plants most of them can't handle the sun/heat here even under the shade cloth. Heck it's amazing anything can live. I've decided to get the heck out of here and am moving north back to Washington this spring. I may end up with one of those basement things again Ray was talking about. I'm also looking in to the idea of a greenhouse fishhouse, so if anyone has done that I'd like to know how it went. I'm not looking forward to moving the fishroom and since I will most likely end up renting while I look for a new place to buy I will probably have to move it twice. ughh. I recently took a photo of myself in the fishroom I'll try to see if I'm clever enough this morning to post it on the aquaticlife yahoo site. lol Rhonda http://naturalaquariums.com > > Posted by: "Steve Szabo" steve@... > <mailto:steve@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Used%20Water> > stevesza <http://profiles.yahoo.com/stevesza> > > > Thu Mar 6, 2008 4:19 pm (PST) > > What? No Rhonda Salt Flats? No Tiny Salt Lake? Come on, where is your > imagination? <g> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26349	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Sick Betta

When I went to go change his tank today I noticed his tail was shorter than usual (he is naturally a shorter tailed beetta), and at the ends of the fin it looked almost swollen. So I held him up so I could see him better. Doesnt look like a fish "cooties" I have ever seen before. The tips of his fins are red and like I said, the very edge seems almost swollen. He looks a little thinner also, not a big difference, but there is a difference. And something I have never seen before, there was normal feces in his tank as usual, but there was also white stuff. It was just random white stuff, almost like clearish white feces. Does he has some sort of parasite going on? I have to wonder if him being stressed out the other week with his water change if it brought it on. I am assuming he has fin rot, although I have never personlly seen fin rot like this on his tail, but it is physically shorter than usual. Basicly I need to know what to get him to make him better. ~Melissa ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26350	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaner/Siphon

I just saw these at the pet store--they do make TINY siphons... amanda

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26351	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Angels

In a message dated 3/6/2008 9:52:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, steve@... writes: With angels, to ensure full fin development, you also need to have a deep tank. The vertical distance from the tip of the dorsal to the tip of the anal fin should be greater than the body length of the fish. The only way to ensure this growth is to keep them in deep water. \\Steve// Thanks Steve (Lenny and Ed too). After reading your helpful posts, I've decided to pass on the Angels until I have a bigger tank. I'm happy with what I have now (fish and plants flourishing) and I need to back off for a while, enjoy and learn more. Oh, that 30g looked huge when it was empty (I'm sure you with the 100g tanks are laughing), but there's really not room enough. :( Barbara **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26352	From: Debra	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta

Doesnt look like a fish "cooties" I have ever > seen before. The tips of his fins are red and like I > said, the very edge seems almost swollen. Melissa: I recently bought a Betta I knew was going to develop problems as he was living in filth. Better than letting him die. Sure enough the next day he looked like he had fur growing all over his body. I set up two large goldfish bowls and added warm salted dechlorinated water with Melafix to one and "Betta Fix" to the other. I moved the Betta from one bowl to the next every 12 hours. Wahsed the empty bowl and reset for next changeover. I believe the fresh, clean, warm water made the biggest improvement. After a week he looked a lot better and I put him back in his home tank. It's now three months later and he's doing very well, he's plumped up and very active. Now I have him in a 10 gallon tank with Cherry shrimp and Corydora's. Good Luck,

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26353	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water

Unfortunately, my setup (one 55 gal) is in the basement family room. Therefore, unless I make myself famous by inventing anti-gravity,* I have to use the Python and run the water. I'm also partially disabled and can't lift more than 10 pounds, so buckets are out. I do use some of the water for plants, especially the water from inside my power filter when I change the media. The plants love it. *If I were to succeed in this, I'd make Bill Gates look like a pauper. But anyway...LOL

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26354	From: ED	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Angels

I'm still kinda new to angels so hadn't really thought about it. We have a 29tall and our 55 is about the same depth 24" plus I'd have to measure , You guys probably know them by heart. Our little ones, in with 3wk old guppie's, are now(7months old) 2-1/2 in bodies with 7- 3/4" fins(hieght), even larger(fins) than our 2yr old blushing angels 4" bodies and 6-3/4" fins(they lived in the 29 for a year). They now share with a pleco, black ghost knife and 2-green cories(55). We were hoping they would pair-off, gonna try raising the temp alil ( 79- 80F ) to ( 82-84 ), We tried a very small blue crayfish(maybe 2"), LOL, they ate it. My measrements are putting a tape measure against the tank and wait till they come to the front when feeding. TY-Steve for keeping me on track. You guys do know more, I just try to add my own observations. I love science, and with aquariums it really is science. LOL. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > With angels, to ensure full fin development, you also need to have a > deep tank. The vertical distance from the tip of the dorsal to the tip > of the anal fin should be greater than the body length of the fish. The > only way to ensure this growth is to keep them in deep water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 4:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > > In a message dated 3/6/2008 10:10:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > crowstarwalker@... writes: > > The angels did get moved to a diff. tank when they got large enough. > You may find as they grow, They may nees a larger tank. > > > > Yep, I agree with you - I'm going to have to get a larger tank. In this > > case, size DOES matter. :). Thanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26355	From: ED	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water

I was wondering if anyone tried using air instead of water for power, we use air powered suction to evac oil/gas from engines in the shop. I know most people don't have a compressor but most of you will have large air pumps for the tanks , much lower pressure I know but worth a lil more investigating. They are nothing more than a one way check valve in line with another line. I only have a regular siphon, I built one of the stands for the tanks and the other one I drilled doorknob holes in the top so I could see what accumilates under the gravel filter from underneath. I'll keep ya posted from my end on this for all you water conscious folks. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gregg Bender" <greggb57@...> wrote: > > Unfortunately, my setup (one 55 gal) is in the basement family room. > Therefore, unless I make myself famous by inventing anti-gravity,* I > have to use the Python and run the water. I'm also partially disabled > and can't lift more than 10 pounds, so buckets are out. > > I do use some of the water for plants, especially the water from > inside my power filter when I change the media. The plants love it. > > *If I were to succeed in this, I'd make Bill Gates look like a pauper. > But anyway...LOL >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26356	From: jgana10	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: disease question

Thanks Steve and Lenny, In my 30 g tank prior to setting up the hospital tank, I had one rainbow shark (1.5"), one clown loach (1"), 5 small neon tetras, 3 small glowlight tetras, one young angelfish about a little larger than a quarter, 4 guppys and 5 fry (1cm each), and one zebra danio (1"). One of my kids bought a baby crawfish too, but I may bring it back to the store as I hear they will grow and catch the fish. All of our fish are small and relatively new as we only bought the tank etc a few months ago. The ones that have been quaranteened are the angelfish, 2 guppies, 3 tetras and zebra danio. I've been doing 25% water changes every two weeks including vaccuming the gravel a bit. We have a Tetra Power Filter 40, that has white fuzzy filter bags with carbon in them. I have one fern-like live plant, the rest are plastic. (in the quarnatine tank we have the same type of smaller filter, and I poor the carbon out of the bag and reinsert when treating the fish). When I test the water every thing comes out "safe" and normal except for the high ammonia in the small tank, and in both the Nitrite levels are high (5-10) mmg/L, and the water is Hard (150 ppm). The symptoms were first that the outer edges of the fins on several fish turned white. some were also a tiny bit ragged. No spots. Just white edges on the fins (tail, top and bottom). The anglfish's got the worst, it spread throughout the whole tail and is the only one that got tufts or fuzzyness. On the two guppies, they also had patches on their sides that are whitish gray. Almost like they were rubbed with sandpaper. One of the tetras also happens to have very red, raw gills (since we first got him). I have used TetraAqua Aquasafe with water chages to try to condition the water in both tanks. I've tried TopFin Ammonia Remover in the hospital tank. I also tried Freshater Biozyme in both tanks to get good bacteria in to help. The first medicine I tried in the hospital tank was API Triple Sulfa for three days and seemed to do nothing. I stopped put AMMOCARB back into the filter in the small tank to stabalize the system and ammonia instead of the original carbon only rocks. Now that its stable I'm going to try a different medicine called "Jungle Fungus Eliminator". Actually I just realized in the main tank we also have a large red brick/clayish pourous rock we bought that the same store as the tank and fish for landscape in the tank and for the fish to swim through the arch in it, and see that it has small tufts of white stuff in the cracks and holes. Maybe thats a source of problems. Thanks again. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Generally, all of these kinds of issues start up as a result of water > quality issues. What were your readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH > and any other tests you have prior to having these issues? How often are > you doing PWC's (25% partial water changes)? Are you vacuuming your gravel > with each PWC? > > What is the brand name and type of medicine you are using? Some meds will > kill off your nitrifying bacteria so the only thing you can do is frequent > PWC's to keep the ammonia levels low enough while treating the fish. > > When you take the carbon out, are you leaving the rest of the filter media > (floss, sponge, etc.) in? What kind of filter system do you have on the > 30G? Brand, etc. Go to my blog and I have a long article on doing proper > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" which will give you some ideas on how to > possibly modify the way you are doing things and changes you can make to > your filter cartridges, presuming that is what you have, so that you always > have a fully cycled filter running. What kind of filter system do you have > on the 5.5G tank also? > > What kind of loach do you have? How many livebearers and tetras do you > have? If all of these fish are juveniles and you have plans to get another > tank or a larger tank, you may be OK, but if you only plan on keeping the > 30G tank, then you may be overstocked which could also be contributing to > your health issues. Overstocking causes stress issues to fish and when fish > get stressed, their immune system falters and they start to get sick. > > An angelfish should be in a 35G tank as a minimum for long term success. > Loaches, depending on the species, can get pretty big and may require a > larger tank as well... and most of them should be kept in shoals of three or > more which increases their needed tank space even more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of jgana10 > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] disease question > > I think my fish have a fungus problem. Several of them have white blotches > on their tails (not small ich spots) and the tips of their top and bottom > fins are white and sometimes wasting away. One also has their top fin > completely clamped down to the body. And some have whitish patches on their > bodies (as though they'd been sandpapered). > One has very red and raw gills, but that might be something independent. > > Anyway, I have medicine to give them in a seperate smaller "hospital" tank, > as soon as I take out the carbon in the filter as the medicine suggests, > within a day or two the ammonia levels shoot up to toxic. I don't want to > save them from fungus (if anyone thinks its not fungus but something else > let me know) only to have them die from ammonia poisining. > > Any ideas? > > I have a 30 gallon main tank with a mix of livebearers, tetras, a loach and > angel. And a 5.5 gallon tank I'm using to treat the 7 sick > (small) fish. > Thanks. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.5/1314 - Release Date: 3/5/2008 > 6:38 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26357	From: jgana10	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: disease question

False alarm on the red rock. The white flecks don't seem to be fungus, they're hard and seem to be part of the rock. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jgana10" <jgana10@...> wrote: > > Thanks Steve and Lenny, > > In my 30 g tank prior to setting up the hospital tank, I had one > rainbow shark (1.5"), one clown loach (1"), 5 small neon tetras, 3 > small glowlight tetras, one young angelfish about a little larger > than a quarter, 4 guppys and 5 fry (1cm each), and one zebra danio > (1"). One of my kids bought a baby crawfish too, but I may bring it > back to the store as I hear they will grow and catch the fish. All of > our fish are small and relatively new as we only bought the tank etc > a few months ago. > > The ones that have been quaranteened are the angelfish, 2 guppies, 3 > tetras and zebra danio. > > I've been doing 25% water changes every two weeks including vaccuming > the gravel a bit. We have a Tetra Power Filter 40, that has white > fuzzy filter bags with carbon in them. I have one fern-like live > plant, the rest are plastic. (in the quarnatine tank we have the same > type of smaller filter, and I poor the carbon out of the bag and > reinsert when treating the fish). > > When I test the water every thing comes out "safe" and normal except > for the high ammonia in the small tank, and in both the Nitrite > levels are high (5-10) mmg/L, and the water is Hard (150 ppm). > > The symptoms were first that the outer edges of the fins on several > fish turned white. some were also a tiny bit ragged. No spots. Just > white edges on the fins (tail, top and bottom). The anglfish's got > the worst, it spread throughout the whole tail and is the only one > that got tufts or fuzzyness. On the two guppies, they also had > patches on their sides that are whitish gray. Almost like they were > rubbed with sandpaper. One of the tetras also happens to have very > red, raw gills (since we first got him). > > I have used TetraAqua Aquasafe with water chages to try to condition > the water in both tanks. I've tried TopFin Ammonia Remover in the > hospital tank. I also tried Freshater Biozyme in both tanks to get > good bacteria in to help. The first medicine I tried in the hospital > tank was API Triple Sulfa for three days and seemed to do nothing. I > stopped put AMMOCARB back into the filter in the small tank to > stabalize the system and ammonia instead of the original carbon only > rocks. Now that its stable I'm going to try a different medicine > called "Jungle Fungus Eliminator". > > Actually I just realized in the main tank we also have a large red > brick/clayish pourous rock we bought that the same store as the tank > and fish for landscape in the tank and for the fish to swim through > the arch in it, and see that it has small tufts of white stuff in the > cracks and holes. Maybe thats a source of problems. > > Thanks again. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Generally, all of these kinds of issues start up as a result of > water > > quality issues. What were your readings for ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH > > and any other tests you have prior to having these issues? How > often are > > you doing PWC's (25% partial water changes)? Are you vacuuming > your gravel > > with each PWC? > > > > What is the brand name and type of medicine you are using? Some > meds will > > kill off your nitrifying bacteria so the only thing you can do is > frequent > > PWC's to keep the ammonia levels low enough while treating the fish. > > > > When you take the carbon out, are you leaving the rest of the > filter media > > (floss, sponge, etc.) in? What kind of filter system do you have > on the > > 30G? Brand, etc. Go to my blog and I have a long article on doing > proper > > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" which will give you some ideas on > how to > > possibly modify the way you are doing things and changes you can > make to > > your filter cartridges, presuming that is what you have, so that > you always > > have a fully cycled filter running. What kind of filter system do > you have > > on the 5.5G tank also? > > > > What kind of loach do you have? How many livebearers and tetras do > you > > have? If all of these fish are juveniles and you have plans to get > another > > tank or a larger tank, you may be OK, but if you only plan on > keeping the > > 30G tank, then you may be overstocked which could also be > contributing to > > your health issues. Overstocking causes stress issues to fish and > when fish > > get stressed, their immune system falters and they start to get > sick. > > > > An angelfish should be in a 35G tank as a minimum for long term > success. > > Loaches, depending on the species, can get pretty big and may > require a > > larger tank as well... and most of them should be kept in shoals of > three or > > more which increases their needed tank space even more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of jgana10 > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:29 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] disease question > > > > I think my fish have a fungus problem. Several of them have white > blotches > > on their tails (not small ich spots) and the tips of their top and > bottom > > fins are white and sometimes wasting away. One also has their top > fin > > completely clamped down to the body. And some have whitish patches > on their > > bodies (as though they'd been sandpapered). > > One has very red and raw gills, but that might be something > independent. > > > > Anyway, I have medicine to give them in a seperate > smaller "hospital" tank, > > as soon as I take out the carbon in the filter as the medicine > suggests, > > within a day or two the ammonia levels shoot up to toxic. I don't > want to > > save them from fungus (if anyone thinks its not fungus but > something else > > let me know) only to have them die from ammonia poisining. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > I have a 30 gallon main tank with a mix of livebearers, tetras, a > loach and > > angel. And a 5.5 gallon tank I'm using to treat the 7 sick > > (small) fish. > > Thanks. > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.5/1314 - Release Date: > 3/5/2008 > > 6:38 PM > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26358	From: Jason Miller	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: new

Hey, i'm new. I haven't kept fish in a while and have never kept a marine aquarium but i'm wanting to start one in the next few months. I've got a 130 gallon aquarium i'm wanting to set up as a reef tank but with some fish as well. I'm trying to figure out what filter i need and everything like that. It's really hard to find specific info for what I will need as far as models and everything. From what i've been reading it seems like a wet/dry filter will be the best for me but they seem really hard to set up, are there any guides for setting them up, or could anyone reccomend a good brand in paticular for an aquarium around 130 gallons. Thanks, and sorry to be a noob lol. Jason ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26359	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: new

Hi Jason, Welcome back to the hobby J And you are venturing into a very interesting but complicated part of the hobby: Saltwater. Firstly, things have change in the past decade about saltwater fish keeping and canister filters or wet/dry systems are not longer recommended for saltwater tank unless you want to keep only fish. For a marine reef tank where you will have live corals etc. you need to have plenty of Live rock as a natural filter for the tank. Even in fish only tanks, live rock is considered the best possible filter. Do some reading on “Berlin method” for salt water keeping. In Short this method uses natural methods for maintaining water quality in a marine tank. Though this is probably the most expensive method but it will allow you to have a very large diversity especially if you are planning a 130g reef J. First step is sorted that you need a fairly large tank as a starter so this is good. Next you need around a pound in weight of cured live rock per gallon of your tank. SO I would estimate at least 50-60 kg of live rock in your tank. You need plenty of water flow around the live rock using stream/circulation pumps (Softer water flow with low power consumption ideally suited to keeping corals and also is much greener in terms of carbon footprint than powerheads). Around 20-40 times the total tank volume is required for circulation. You are looking at about 15000lph – 20000lph water flow (which may sound a lot but when you research, you may realize it’s a bit on the low end). Water circulation is needed around live rock to help keep it alive as the live rock converts fish waste ammonia into nitrites and nitrites eventually into nitrates (this is what the biological filter does too) and then eventually helps in reducing nitrates into nitrogen gas or provide food for critters and coral line algae (beautiful). Thus making water quality optimum for invertebrates (inverts here really mean corals and anemones). Next you need a good skimmer. This may look like a filter and probably is one as well but instead of using filter media, it uses micro bubbles to skim out organic waste from the tank which if left to rot in the water can cause problems for invertebrates and also spoil water quality. Do not compromise on the skimmer in terms of costs as you may eventually end up paying much more in terms of water changes and invertebrate deaths. A DSB (I am not sure if this is a part of the berlin method or not) may or may not be essential but it is recommended. This ideally goes into a sump tank (an additional smaller tank about 25% the size of your main tank that is plumbed into the main system using a sump pump and an overflow). The sum can house more live rock giving you capabilities to stock a bit more in the main tank, house a DSB (Deep sand bed) that is a few inches of fine aragonite sand with plenty of live critters and anaerobic bacteria that also take care of Nitrates and other wastes. A DSB greatly reduces nitrates in the tank and just as an example, Live rock in my tank maintained nitrates around 10-15ppm. After adding a DSB about a week ago, today the nitrates were 2ppm. I did use live sand mixed with coral sand from the main tank in the DSB so it was almost ready to go. Refugium, you can setup the sump as a refugium as well but then there are many people who may disagree with the concept. Refugium is basically again a separate tank in which you house non pest algae like calipers or even better chaeto (sorry I may have misspelt it). This algae is allowed to over grow in the sumo under normal daylight fluorescent light or energy saving bulbs and this in turn consumes all the nutrients that other pest algae may utilize. It helps remove nitrates and phosphates from the water hence making the environment better. Phew.. Now do some research on the above and decide what you need. My best advice would to plan well ahead before starting it up and you will not run into any major problems. Initial stages will be slightly unstable and so you may get some algae but don’t be alarmed. I had a wave of hair algae in my tank and overnight it vanished. Nim From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Miller Sent: 07 March 2008 19:00 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new Hey, i'm new. I haven't kept fish in a while and have never kept a marine aquarium but i'm wanting to start one in the next few months. I've got a 130 gallon aquarium i'm wanting to set up as a reef tank but with some fish as well. I'm trying to figure out what filter i need and everything like that. It's really hard to find specific info for what I will need as far as models and everything. From what i've been reading it seems like a wet/dry filter will be the best for me but they seem really hard to set up, are there any guides for setting them up, or could anyone reccomend a good brand in paticular for an aquarium around 130 gallons. Thanks, and sorry to be a noob lol. Jason __________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26360	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: plants arrived - now what? =)

Hey everyone =o) I just got my first 2 live plants. I don't know if you remember or not, but this is a big step for me (live plants) and I'm really nervous about it. So before I begin I'm looking for advise. I have one bunch of water wisteria and another plant in a pot... crypt wendtti green. What now??? Like, placement in the tank? Do I remove the pot? The Crypt Wendtti does have globs of roots growing out of the bottom of the pot. Do I bury the roots completely? How far in should I bury both? Just any advise at all would be wonderful. It's very much appreciated. Thanking you in advance, Lisa Alabama, USA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26361	From: Debra	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: plants arrived - now what? =)

- > > water wisteria and another plant in a pot... crypt wendtti green. > > What now??? Water wisteria grows like a weed for me. Just push the roots into your substrate. I use sand and river pebbles (fleurite in a couple of tanks). No experience with crypt's though. Most plants do best with benign neglect. Don't hover and fuss over them and put them with other plants. Works for me. Good luck.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26362	From: armstrongm44	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Seahorses

I am getting 2 seahorses tomorrow, I just cant wait my tank has been set up for them for 2 months now. I did a lot of looking on the Internet about keeping them and bombarded 2 aquarium owners that I go to with lots of questions, and made sure I was getting all the right things for them and that my tank was set up correctly for them.... I wondered if there was any one with in this group has any experience 1st hand with seahorses and what it has been like for them to keep sea horses. as I hope to have them for as long as I can, as I have loved seahorses since I was a little girl.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26363	From: circus0s	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: should i be worried?

my female guppie has white stuff on her side, she is eating normally, and it is not ick. any help would be appreciated.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26364	From: bmp	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: plants arrived - now what? =)

Hi Lisa, I have both of these plants and they grow well for me, even in the tank which has only plain natural gravel (no flourite). The water wisteria will develop differently shaped leaves than you probably already have (they will get a more lacy, fern-like look which to me is beautiful and great for providing shelter to developing fry). You just separate the stems and place them in the gravel, perhaps 1/2 inch down, spacing them so it's clear they are in a group but are not too close to each other. For the Crypt wendtii, remove the pot with ordinary scissors. Carefully open up the mass of "rockwool" which is like fiberglass. Be careful handling it as it can be like tiny splinters to your fingers. Remove as very much of this rockwool as you can before you plant the plant. I just discard the rockwool. Carefully spread the roots some and plant it until the roots and only a little of the stem is covered by gravel. Don't worry if the crypt looks kind of shabby/droopy at first or shortly after you plant it. There is a condition called crypt melt which can happen when these plants are transplanted but when it has happened to me, the plant has recovered with time, without doing anything more than carefully removing the dead leaves it may drop. It also grows into a pretty plant but doesn't sprawl and spread as much as the water wisteria. Good luck and don't worry too much. These are beautiful plants and not what I'd call fussy. As long as they have good lighting and some mulm in the gravel I think they should do well for you. If Giancarlo is on this group, he will probably offer you better information than I can. He's great! Beverly --- Lisa Robinson <oo.lisa.oo@...> wrote: > Hey everyone =o) > > I just got my first 2 live plants. I don't know > if you remember or not, > > but this is a big step for me (live plants) and I'm > really nervous about it. Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26365	From: Jim	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Stocking a 20 Gallon Tank

Hi, I have had a 20 gallon freshwater tank for the past six months, and I have to say that none of the fish I've owned have died on me (yet). I have gotten very good at performing weekly water changes and testing the water parameters on a continual basis. However, I am concerned about the amount of fish I currently have in my tank. At this point, I have the tank stocked with 6 Giant Danios and 2 Chinese Algae Eaters. I read somewhere that the Danios do better when they are in groups of 6 or more, which is why I have 6 of them. The Danios seem to be getting along alright with each other. They just swim around together in a school and do their own thing. The 2 Chinese Algae Eaters seem to be getting along well with the Danios, but not always with each other. A few of the Danios have grown quite big (about 2 inches or so), so I am concerned that they may not have enough room to swim around. Should I consider purchasing a bigger tank even though the fish seem healthy, are eating, and getting along well? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26366	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking a 20 Gallon Tank

I know I chose the smaller danios instead of the giants because the giants get quite big..the chinese algae eaters also get very big (I have a golden one). I am no expert but I would definitely say a 20 gallon is way to small for the large fish you have. -----Original Message----- From: Jim <rjames1973@...> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Stocking a 20 Gallon Tank Hi, I have had a 20 gallon freshwater tank for the past six months, and I have to say that none of the fish I've owned have died on me (yet). I have gotten very good at performing weekly water changes and testing the water parameters on a continual basis. However, I am concerned about the amount of fish I currently have in my tank. At this point, I have the tank stocked with 6 Giant Danios and 2 Chinese Algae Eaters. I read somewhere that the Danios do better when they are in groups of 6 or more, which is why I have 6 of them. The Danios seem to be getting along alright with each other. They just swim around together in a school and do their own thing. The 2 Chinese Algae Eaters seem to be getting along well with the Danios, but not always with each other. A few of the Danios have grown quite big (about 2 inches or so), so I am concerned that they may not have enough room to swim around. Should I consider purchasing a bigger tank even though the fish seem healthy, are eating, and getting along well? Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26367	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water, Salt flats, basements, moving fishrooms, lol

Rhonda, Then you should have done the salt flats. Then you could have held races for speed record with radio controlled cars <g>. I've only been through Arizona, and it was summer, so I know what you mean by the heat. You can only take off so many clothes . . . \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rhonda Wilson Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Used Water, Salt flats, basements, moving fishrooms, lol Umm, well I did at one time put my used sw tank water in to a kiddie pool with some caulerpa and a few rocks. Even under a shade cloth the Arizona sun was too much for it and it didn't work. I didn't try that one again. I do regularly keep pools of fw fish and some plants outside. Even with fw plants most of them can't handle the sun/heat here even under the shade cloth. Heck it's amazing anything can live. I've decided to get the heck out of here and am moving north back to Washington this spring. I may end up with one of those basement things again Ray was talking about. I'm also looking in to the idea of a greenhouse fishhouse, so if anyone has done that I'd like to know how it went. I'm not looking forward to moving the fishroom and since I will most likely end up renting while I look for a new place to buy I will probably have to move it twice. ughh. I recently took a photo of myself in the fishroom I'll try to see if I'm clever enough this morning to post it on the aquaticlife yahoo site. lol Rhonda http://naturalaquariums.com > > Posted by: "Steve Szabo" steve@... > <mailto:steve@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Used%20Water> > stevesza <http://profiles.yahoo.com/stevesza> > > > Thu Mar 6, 2008 4:19 pm (PST) > > What? No Rhonda Salt Flats? No Tiny Salt Lake? Come on, where is your > imagination? <g> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26368	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Question about salt?

When I do my weekly water changes do I add more salt each time to the fresh water I am putting in? Im new (just put some in earlier this week) to putting the aquarium salt in. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26369	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Angels

Whoa! You mean it isn't all magic? <G> There is also a lot of art involved, mainly with the décor and the mix of fish you keep. There is also a certain amount of intuition involved as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels I'm still kinda new to angels so hadn't really thought about it. We have a 29tall and our 55 is about the same depth 24" plus I'd have to measure , You guys probably know them by heart. Our little ones, in with 3wk old guppie's, are now(7months old) 2-1/2 in bodies with 7- 3/4" fins(hieght), even larger(fins) than our 2yr old blushing angels 4" bodies and 6-3/4" fins(they lived in the 29 for a year). They now share with a pleco, black ghost knife and 2-green cories(55). We were hoping they would pair-off, gonna try raising the temp alil ( 79- 80F ) to ( 82-84 ), We tried a very small blue crayfish(maybe 2"), LOL, they ate it. My measrements are putting a tape measure against the tank and wait till they come to the front when feeding. TY-Steve for keeping me on track. You guys do know more, I just try to add my own observations. I love science, and with aquariums it really is science. LOL. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > With angels, to ensure full fin development, you also need to have a > deep tank. The vertical distance from the tip of the dorsal to the tip > of the anal fin should be greater than the body length of the fish. The > only way to ensure this growth is to keep them in deep water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 4:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > > In a message dated 3/6/2008 10:10:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > crowstarwalker@... writes: > > The angels did get moved to a diff. tank when they got large enough. > You may find as they grow, They may nees a larger tank. > > > > Yep, I agree with you - I'm going to have to get a larger tank. In this > > case, size DOES matter. :). Thanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta

Hi Melissa, Fin rot and the white poop are both signs of bacterial issues in your water and fish. The white poop could also be a digestive tract parasitic issue. In short, you fish is sick. The most common cause of sick fish are water quality issues so lets fix that first while working on treating the fish. You should be doing daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes) and vacuuming the gravel with each PWC. How big is the tank/bowl that he is in? Tell us more about his home and your maintenance habits... how often do you do PWC's, vacuum the gravel, etc.? Where are you located? Does your LFS or chain store carry fish medicines? What brand/kind do you currently have? For the fin rot, I would start with a Melafix treatment to the water column. Use NO MORE than 50% of the normal dosage and 25% might be even better. That would mean to use 1/2 or 1/4 of the recommended dosage. For labyrinth fish like bettas and gouramis, the strong smell of the melafix active ingredient messes with their breathing when they breath from the surface with their labyrinth. API, the makers of Melafix, also make a product called Bettafix which is just a 10% solution of Melafix but it's just as expensive as Melafix so you would be better off getting Melafix and using a partial dosage of 1/2 or less. I've used up to 50% with labyrinth fish without having any problems. The Melafix will also help with an internal bacterial issue but not so much with parasites... if that is what your guy has. There are anti-parasitic foods that you may be able to dose his favorite food with but then he may not eat it so you'll have to try it and see. Even if you don't have access to all of the meds that are recommended, if you start doing daily 25% PWC's, this will vastly improve his water quality and then the fishes immune system should get stronger and he might be able to fight off the problems on his own. You can also add salt to his PWC water starting off with 1 level teaspoon per gallon (0.1%) on the first day and working your way up to three level teaspoons per gallon (0.3%). This article goes over salt as a treatment in more detail so read over the entire article. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Walker Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick Betta When I went to go change his tank today I noticed his tail was shorter than usual (he is naturally a shorter tailed beetta), and at the ends of the fin it looked almost swollen. So I held him up so I could see him better. Doesnt look like a fish "cooties" I have ever seen before. The tips of his fins are red and like I said, the very edge seems almost swollen. He looks a little thinner also, not a big difference, but there is a difference. And something I have never seen before, there was normal feces in his tank as usual, but there was also white stuff. It was just random white stuff, almost like clearish white feces. Does he has some sort of parasite going on? I have to wonder if him being stressed out the other week with his water change if it brought it on. I am assuming he has fin rot, although I have never personlly seen fin rot like this on his tail, but it is physically shorter than usual. Basicly I need to know what to get him to make him better. ~Melissa No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 6:58 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26371	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: disease question

If you did not prepare the rock prior to placing it in the tank, it could be a possible source. By preparing the rock, I mean giving it at least a bath in a mixture of bleach and water along with some work with a stiff brush and then rinsing well to remove the chlorine from the bleach. If you did this, or something similar, then the fungus could be the result of food trapped in the pits in the rock that has become fungused. If you had not dome the regime prior to this, do it now. What you may have on your fish is a case of fin and tail rot. The salt treatment I mentioned before should take care of it for you. If you feel like spending some money, I think it is Maracyn II that is effective against it. I'm sure one of the others will confirm or deny this. I do not have much experience with pharmaceuticals preferring slat treatments as a pretty good cure-all. I'd increase the frequency of your water changes to once a week, as well. The tetras, and the angel fish are softwater fish, and may not do well with the hardness you have. The zebra fish should have some company, but when all your fish grow, the tank will be over stocked, without adding more fish to what you have now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jgana10 Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: disease question Thanks Steve and Lenny, In my 30 g tank prior to setting up the hospital tank, I had one rainbow shark (1.5"), one clown loach (1"), 5 small neon tetras, 3 small glowlight tetras, one young angelfish about a little larger than a quarter, 4 guppys and 5 fry (1cm each), and one zebra danio (1"). One of my kids bought a baby crawfish too, but I may bring it back to the store as I hear they will grow and catch the fish. All of our fish are small and relatively new as we only bought the tank etc a few months ago. The ones that have been quaranteened are the angelfish, 2 guppies, 3 tetras and zebra danio. I've been doing 25% water changes every two weeks including vaccuming the gravel a bit. We have a Tetra Power Filter 40, that has white fuzzy filter bags with carbon in them. I have one fern-like live plant, the rest are plastic. (in the quarnatine tank we have the same type of smaller filter, and I poor the carbon out of the bag and reinsert when treating the fish). When I test the water every thing comes out "safe" and normal except for the high ammonia in the small tank, and in both the Nitrite levels are high (5-10) mmg/L, and the water is Hard (150 ppm). The symptoms were first that the outer edges of the fins on several fish turned white. some were also a tiny bit ragged. No spots. Just white edges on the fins (tail, top and bottom). The anglfish's got the worst, it spread throughout the whole tail and is the only one that got tufts or fuzzyness. On the two guppies, they also had patches on their sides that are whitish gray. Almost like they were rubbed with sandpaper. One of the tetras also happens to have very red, raw gills (since we first got him). I have used TetraAqua Aquasafe with water chages to try to condition the water in both tanks. I've tried TopFin Ammonia Remover in the hospital tank. I also tried Freshater Biozyme in both tanks to get good bacteria in to help. The first medicine I tried in the hospital tank was API Triple Sulfa for three days and seemed to do nothing. I stopped put AMMOCARB back into the filter in the small tank to stabalize the system and ammonia instead of the original carbon only rocks. Now that its stable I'm going to try a different medicine called "Jungle Fungus Eliminator". Actually I just realized in the main tank we also have a large red brick/clayish pourous rock we bought that the same store as the tank and fish for landscape in the tank and for the fish to swim through the arch in it, and see that it has small tufts of white stuff in the cracks and holes. Maybe thats a source of problems. Thanks again. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Generally, all of these kinds of issues start up as a result of water > quality issues. What were your readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH > and any other tests you have prior to having these issues? How often are > you doing PWC's (25% partial water changes)? Are you vacuuming your gravel > with each PWC? > > What is the brand name and type of medicine you are using? Some meds will > kill off your nitrifying bacteria so the only thing you can do is frequent > PWC's to keep the ammonia levels low enough while treating the fish. > > When you take the carbon out, are you leaving the rest of the filter media > (floss, sponge, etc.) in? What kind of filter system do you have on the > 30G? Brand, etc. Go to my blog and I have a long article on doing proper > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" which will give you some ideas on how to > possibly modify the way you are doing things and changes you can make to > your filter cartridges, presuming that is what you have, so that you always > have a fully cycled filter running. What kind of filter system do you have > on the 5.5G tank also? > > What kind of loach do you have? How many livebearers and tetras do you > have? If all of these fish are juveniles and you have plans to get another > tank or a larger tank, you may be OK, but if you only plan on keeping the > 30G tank, then you may be overstocked which could also be contributing to > your health issues. Overstocking causes stress issues to fish and when fish > get stressed, their immune system falters and they start to get sick. > > An angelfish should be in a 35G tank as a minimum for long term success. > Loaches, depending on the species, can get pretty big and may require a > larger tank as well... and most of them should be kept in shoals of three or > more which increases their needed tank space even more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of jgana10 > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] disease question > > I think my fish have a fungus problem. Several of them have white blotches > on their tails (not small ich spots) and the tips of their top and bottom > fins are white and sometimes wasting away. One also has their top fin > completely clamped down to the body. And some have whitish patches on their > bodies (as though they'd been sandpapered). > One has very red and raw gills, but that might be something independent. > > Anyway, I have medicine to give them in a seperate smaller "hospital" tank, > as soon as I take out the carbon in the filter as the medicine suggests, > within a day or two the ammonia levels shoot up to toxic. I don't want to > save them from fungus (if anyone thinks its not fungus but something else > let me know) only to have them die from ammonia poisining. > > Any ideas? > > I have a 30 gallon main tank with a mix of livebearers, tetras, a loach and > angel. And a 5.5 gallon tank I'm using to treat the 7 sick > (small) fish. > Thanks. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26372	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: plants arrived - now what? =)

The crypts will likely suffer from transplant shock and wither away to nothing, you'll think you have lost it. After what it deems to be an appropriate time, it will come back, and provide you with many years of growth, and even propagation. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 3:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: plants arrived - now what? =) - > > water wisteria and another plant in a pot... crypt wendtti green. > > What now??? Water wisteria grows like a weed for me. Just push the roots into your substrate. I use sand and river pebbles (fleurite in a couple of tanks). No experience with crypt's though. Most plants do best with benign neglect. Don't hover and fuss over them and put them with other plants. Works for me. Good luck. Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26373	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?

I may have missed something in the earlier threads you have been involved it. Just why are you adding salt? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 9:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? When I do my weekly water changes do I add more salt each time to the fresh water I am putting in? Im new (just put some in earlier this week) to putting the aquarium salt in. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26374	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta

As of last week he has spent the first 4ish years in a 2 gallon critter carrier. But since he got all stressed out after the water change 2 weeks ago, I went and got him a 5 gallon tank. Since the 5 gallon doesnt fit into the cubby his 2 gallon fit in, I had to move him else where in my room. And since he is out of the line of fire of the heat vent and his water would not stay nearly as warm, he has a small heater in his new tank, which his temps are at 78 degrees. He gets a water change once weekly, and today he got his which was when I noticed the change in him. He has a small sponge filter in his tank which gets rinsed off in room temp water once weekly a day after his water change. I actually keep him without any gravel the entire time I have had him. I plan on getting him some for this new tank next week when I get paid.My plot is to put aside 75% of his water in bowls, rinse off the gravel really well and let the filter run for a bit before putting him back into the tank. I never put it in there simply because wih a 2 gallon tank, it is hard to do a small water change as it is, with the gravel in there it would be even harder to clean. I bought BettaFix today simply because I personally can not stand the smell of Melafix, great med, we use it at work, but I hate the smell. I also brought home some anti-parasite pellet food also to give to him, which are the same size as his betta bites. He happily eats it as he ate it tonight for me. I did bring home more salt for him today. I was never sure abou salting a betta tank, but when I was reading up on how to fix his problem, it went over salting the tank, so i decided to get some while I was at it. I was thinking after he got better, adding a couple of ghst shrimp to his tank, but to be compleatly honest, I am afraid theymay bring something into his tank and make him sick, which is why I have kept him alone for all these years. If I were to bring the ghost shrimp home for some tank buddies, hw lng should I QT them for? Should i treat them for anything? I was thinking it woudnt be a bad idea to give the shrim anti-parasite food as i would think they would be more apt to carry it. I adore this fish, last thing I want to do is bring in something that will just make him worse. ~melissa --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Hi Melissa, > > Fin rot and the white poop are both signs of > bacterial issues in your water > and fish. The white poop could also be a digestive > tract parasitic issue. > In short, you fish is sick. The most common cause > of sick fish are water > quality issues so lets fix that first while working > on treating the fish. > You should be doing daily 25% PWC's (partial water > changes) and vacuuming > the gravel with each PWC. > > How big is the tank/bowl that he is in? Tell us > more about his home and > your maintenance habits... how often do you do > PWC's, vacuum the gravel, > etc.? > > Where are you located? Does your LFS or chain store > carry fish medicines? > What brand/kind do you currently have? > > For the fin rot, I would start with a Melafix > treatment to the water column. > Use NO MORE than 50% of the normal dosage and 25% > might be even better. > That would mean to use 1/2 or 1/4 of the recommended > dosage. For labyrinth > fish like bettas and gouramis, the strong smell of > the melafix active > ingredient messes with their breathing when they > breath from the surface > with their labyrinth. API, the makers of Melafix, > also make a product > called Bettafix which is just a 10% solution of > Melafix but it's just as > expensive as Melafix so you would be better off > getting Melafix and using a > partial dosage of 1/2 or less. I've used up to 50% > with labyrinth fish > without having any problems. > > The Melafix will also help with an internal > bacterial issue but not so much > with parasites... if that is what your guy has. > There are anti-parasitic > foods that you may be able to dose his favorite food > with but then he may > not eat it so you'll have to try it and see. > > Even if you don't have access to all of the meds > that are recommended, if > you start doing daily 25% PWC's, this will vastly > improve his water quality > and then the fishes immune system should get > stronger and he might be able > to fight off the problems on his own. > > You can also add salt to his PWC water starting off > with 1 level teaspoon > per gallon (0.1%) on the first day and working your > way up to three level > teaspoons per gallon (0.3%). This article goes over > salt as a treatment in > more detail so read over the entire article. > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Melissa Walker > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick Betta > > > When I went to go change his tank today I noticed > his tail was shorter than > usual (he is naturally a shorter tailed beetta), and > at the ends of the fin > it looked almost swollen. So I held him up so I > could see him better. Doesnt > look like a fish "cooties" I have ever seen before. > The tips of his fins are > red and like I said, the very edge seems almost > swollen. He looks a little > thinner also, not a big difference, but there is a > difference. And something > I have never seen before, there was normal feces in > his tank as usual, but > there was also white stuff. It was just random white > stuff, almost like > clearish white feces. Does he has some sort of > parasite going on? I have to > wonder if him being stressed out the other week with > his water change if it > brought it on. I am assuming he has fin rot, > although I have never personlly > seen fin rot like this on his tail, but it is > physically shorter than usual. > Basicly I need to know what to get him to make him > better. > > ~Melissa > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - > Release Date: 3/6/2008 > 6:58 PM > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26375	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: disease question

You should return the clown loach as it will get much too big for your tank and they should be kept in shoals of at least five or more which would require a 100G+ tank. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html The rainbow shark, while not getting large, is considered to be very territorial and your other fish could be getting stressed that it's even in the tank with them and when fish get stressed, their immune systems falter and this could be what is causing some of your issues. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Epalzeorhynchus_frenatus.html and for more info on suggested companions for your rainbow shark, read the SC section here... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Epalzeorhynchus_bicolor.html The crawfish could also be increasing the stress issues for your fish. It's kind of like if you were locked up in a room with Hannibal Lector. He may not eat your face but you would certainly be stressed out and not sleep very well knowing that he might. ;-) Here's more information about fish stress and how it affects their health. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005 http://www.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/stress.html http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html (These last two are very similar and I'm not sure if they are by the same author of if one is plagiarized from the other so I list both. LOL) Last but not least, which is a PDF document from http://srac.tamu.edu/getfile.cfm?pubid=121 (The Role Of Stress In Fish Diseases) if the following link breaks. http://srac.tamu.edu/tmppdfs/1134183-474fs.pdf?CFID=1134183&CFTOKEN=333083c7 034a5ecc-8C478BFA-7E93-35CB-896677EB287B6665&jsessionid=8e303140bcb09038425b If your Q-tank was empty of fish, then the filter in it would not have any nitrifying bacteria which is why you are getting an ammonia spike. You should keep the filter cartridge for the Q-tank, in the reservoir of your main tank filter system so it will have N-bacteria growing on it whenever you need to start up a Q-tank. For now, do you have a sponge or other filter media in your main tank filter system that you could add to the Q-tank filter system? This would technically "cycle" the Q-tank so you would not have the cycle problems you are seeing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jgana10 Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 12:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: disease question Thanks Steve and Lenny, In my 30 g tank prior to setting up the hospital tank, I had one rainbow shark (1.5"), one clown loach (1"), 5 small neon tetras, 3 small glowlight tetras, one young angelfish about a little larger than a quarter, 4 guppys and 5 fry (1cm each), and one zebra danio (1"). One of my kids bought a baby crawfish too, but I may bring it back to the store as I hear they will grow and catch the fish. All of our fish are small and relatively new as we only bought the tank etc a few months ago. The ones that have been quaranteened are the angelfish, 2 guppies, 3 tetras and zebra danio. I've been doing 25% water changes every two weeks including vaccuming the gravel a bit. We have a Tetra Power Filter 40, that has white fuzzy filter bags with carbon in them. I have one fern-like live plant, the rest are plastic. (in the quarnatine tank we have the same type of smaller filter, and I poor the carbon out of the bag and reinsert when treating the fish). When I test the water every thing comes out "safe" and normal except for the high ammonia in the small tank, and in both the Nitrite levels are high (5-10) mmg/L, and the water is Hard (150 ppm). The symptoms were first that the outer edges of the fins on several fish turned white. some were also a tiny bit ragged. No spots. Just white edges on the fins (tail, top and bottom). The anglfish's got the worst, it spread throughout the whole tail and is the only one that got tufts or fuzzyness. On the two guppies, they also had patches on their sides that are whitish gray. Almost like they were rubbed with sandpaper. One of the tetras also happens to have very red, raw gills (since we first got him). I have used TetraAqua Aquasafe with water chages to try to condition the water in both tanks. I've tried TopFin Ammonia Remover in the hospital tank. I also tried Freshater Biozyme in both tanks to get good bacteria in to help. The first medicine I tried in the hospital tank was API Triple Sulfa for three days and seemed to do nothing. I stopped put AMMOCARB back into the filter in the small tank to stabalize the system and ammonia instead of the original carbon only rocks. Now that its stable I'm going to try a different medicine called "Jungle Fungus Eliminator". Actually I just realized in the main tank we also have a large red brick/clayish pourous rock we bought that the same store as the tank and fish for landscape in the tank and for the fish to swim through the arch in it, and see that it has small tufts of white stuff in the cracks and holes. Maybe thats a source of problems. Thanks again. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Generally, all of these kinds of issues start up as a result of water > quality issues. What were your readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH > and any other tests you have prior to having these issues? How often are > you doing PWC's (25% partial water changes)? Are you vacuuming your gravel > with each PWC? > > What is the brand name and type of medicine you are using? Some meds will > kill off your nitrifying bacteria so the only thing you can do is frequent > PWC's to keep the ammonia levels low enough while treating the fish. > > When you take the carbon out, are you leaving the rest of the filter media > (floss, sponge, etc.) in? What kind of filter system do you have on the > 30G? Brand, etc. Go to my blog and I have a long article on doing proper > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" which will give you some ideas on how to > possibly modify the way you are doing things and changes you can make to > your filter cartridges, presuming that is what you have, so that you always > have a fully cycled filter running. What kind of filter system do you have > on the 5.5G tank also? > > What kind of loach do you have? How many livebearers and tetras do you > have? If all of these fish are juveniles and you have plans to get another > tank or a larger tank, you may be OK, but if you only plan on keeping the > 30G tank, then you may be overstocked which could also be contributing to > your health issues. Overstocking causes stress issues to fish and when fish > get stressed, their immune system falters and they start to get sick. > > An angelfish should be in a 35G tank as a minimum for long term success. > Loaches, depending on the species, can get pretty big and may require a > larger tank as well... and most of them should be kept in shoals of three or > more which increases their needed tank space even more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of jgana10 > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] disease question > > I think my fish have a fungus problem. Several of them have white blotches > on their tails (not small ich spots) and the tips of their top and bottom > fins are white and sometimes wasting away. One also has their top fin > completely clamped down to the body. And some have whitish patches on their > bodies (as though they'd been sandpapered). > One has very red and raw gills, but that might be something independent. > > Anyway, I have medicine to give them in a seperate smaller "hospital" tank, > as soon as I take out the carbon in the filter as the medicine suggests, > within a day or two the ammonia levels shoot up to toxic. I don't want to > save them from fungus (if anyone thinks its not fungus but something else > let me know) only to have them die from ammonia poisining. > > Any ideas? > > I have a 30 gallon main tank with a mix of livebearers, tetras, a loach and > angel. And a 5.5 gallon tank I'm using to treat the 7 sick > (small) fish. > Thanks. > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 6:58 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26376	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking a 20 Gallon Tank

Your 20G is going to be much too small for your current fish bioload. Read over and follow the minimum recommendations on these following Mongabay profiles. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Danio_aequipinnatus.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html The CAE, which should be called an IAE (Indian Algae Eater) since they are not from China, grows to 11" and are aggressive with conspecifics.. their own kind, so unless you have plans for a VERY LARGE tank, you should keep only one in a tank.... but not in a 20G. If you can't upgrade to at least 100G, where you could keep the GD's and one of the CAE's, then you should go for at least a 55G and then keep the Giant Danio's and possibly a smaller algae eater species if you feel the need for one. I just bought a clown pleco which only grow to around 4-5" for my 65G tank. A single algae eater is all that is needed for most tanks. In the future, go to http://fish.mongabay.com and look for a profile on your proposed fish prior to buying them so you can be sure you can provide a suitable habitat for them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Stocking a 20 Gallon Tank Hi, I have had a 20 gallon freshwater tank for the past six months, and I have to say that none of the fish I've owned have died on me (yet). I have gotten very good at performing weekly water changes and testing the water parameters on a continual basis. However, I am concerned about the amount of fish I currently have in my tank. At this point, I have the tank stocked with 6 Giant Danios and 2 Chinese Algae Eaters. I read somewhere that the Danios do better when they are in groups of 6 or more, which is why I have 6 of them. The Danios seem to be getting along alright with each other. They just swim around together in a school and do their own thing. The 2 Chinese Algae Eaters seem to be getting along well with the Danios, but not always with each other. A few of the Danios have grown quite big (about 2 inches or so), so I am concerned that they may not have enough room to swim around. Should I consider purchasing a bigger tank even though the fish seem healthy, are eating, and getting along well? Thanks, Jim No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 6:58 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26377	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water, Salt flats, basements, moving fishrooms, lol

\\Steve// said " You can only take off so many clothes . . . " That isn't the rule at the drive-in back in the 70's. Did anyone say STREAKER!!!!! LOL And Rhonda... nice fish room in your pic! Although I like my tanks, I'm not sure I would want a fish room. It seems like it would be more like work rather than a fun hobby at that point. I do not relish your having to move them all twice.. heck, once would be too much for me. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 7:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Used Water, Salt flats, basements, moving fishrooms, lol Rhonda, Then you should have done the salt flats. Then you could have held races for speed record with radio controlled cars <g>. I've only been through Arizona, and it was summer, so I know what you mean by the heat. You can only take off so many clothes . . . \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Rhonda Wilson Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Used Water, Salt flats, basements, moving fishrooms, lol Umm, well I did at one time put my used sw tank water in to a kiddie pool with some caulerpa and a few rocks. Even under a shade cloth the Arizona sun was too much for it and it didn't work. I didn't try that one again. I do regularly keep pools of fw fish and some plants outside. Even with fw plants most of them can't handle the sun/heat here even under the shade cloth. Heck it's amazing anything can live. I've decided to get the heck out of here and am moving north back to Washington this spring. I may end up with one of those basement things again Ray was talking about. I'm also looking in to the idea of a greenhouse fishhouse, so if anyone has done that I'd like to know how it went. I'm not looking forward to moving the fishroom and since I will most likely end up renting while I look for a new place to buy I will probably have to move it twice. ughh. I recently took a photo of myself in the fishroom I'll try to see if I'm clever enough this morning to post it on the aquaticlife yahoo site. lol Rhonda http://naturalaquariums.com <http://naturalaquariums.com> > > Posted by: "Steve Szabo" steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> ?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Used%20Water> > stevesza <http://profiles.yahoo.com/stevesza > <http://profiles.yahoo.com/stevesza> > > > > Thu Mar 6, 2008 4:19 pm (PST) > > What? No Rhonda Salt Flats? No Tiny Salt Lake? Come on, where is your > imagination? <g> > > \\Steve// No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 6:58 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26378	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?

Why are you adding salt? On my blog's Fish Diseases page, I have a section on Salt and the Osmoregulatory System. Read through all of the links and you will see it's not needed as an everyday thing with FW fish. It's great for treatment purposes but the best thing for everyday purposes is plenty of fresh clean water by doing regular and frequent 25% PWC's. But to answer your question, if you are just topping off the tank due to evaporation, then you do not add more salt to the water as the salt that was in the tank did not evaporate when the water did. If you are doing a PWC, then the water going in should be at the same salt concentration as the tank, since you are removing "salty water" when you do the PWC. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? When I do my weekly water changes do I add more salt each time to the fresh water I am putting in? Im new (just put some in earlier this week) to putting the aquarium salt in. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 6:58 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26379	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?

Well I was told it was good for the gills and many other things but the reason I started adding it was because my swordtail has a white spot (flat..not ick..doesnt move..not fuzzy and not a hole) that has been there for a couple of months. I have not been able to find anything like it any where even on sites lenny gave me so since I do not know what it is and its not effecting any of the other fish with him I decided to try salt. Although its still there. Should I not continue using it? Like I said the use of salt is new to me. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? I may have missed something in the earlier threads you have been involved it. Just why are you adding salt? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 9:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? When I do my weekly water changes do I add more salt each time to the fresh water I am putting in? Im new (just put some in earlier this week) to putting the aquarium salt in. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26380	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta

Debra Watch the betta around the cherry shrimp. I had a couple of spawns happen a couple days apart and ran out of tank room one time. So I put some of the babies into my shimp tank. Everything was fine until the bettas became bigger. They started eating my crystal red and cherry shrimp in the tank. joey **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26381	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta

He'll love the ghost shrimp in his tank... as expensive snacks! LOL It's no problem as long as you don't plan on keeping them in there very long and don't mind spending the money. There's little chance that a shrimp will carry a disease that will spread to a fish. Most diseases are species specific although there are exceptions. I've never worried about quarantining shrimps or snails when adding them to my tanks. He'll do a lot better in the 5G but it could also be the stress from being moved that lowered his immune system. Once a week PWC's in the 5G should be sufficient but regular testing of your nitrate levels would be a good indicator if it's not enough. Going with a plain bottom in the 2G was a good thing since they are hard to vacuum due to the limited water volume but you could go with a 1/2" layer of gravel in the 5G which would hide the detritus between your weekly gravel vacuuming during PWC's. Don't go overboard with treatments as each treatment has its side effects also and too many meds, salt, etc., can cause problems as well. I know Melafix has a strong smell but I figured Bettafix was just as smelly since it's the same active ingredient at a smaller percentage... but maybe since it's only a 10% solution, it's a small enough level that it's not overpowering. Personally, I like the smell of Melafix and Pimafix. I've even seen forum posts from people asking if they could add it to their tanks all the time because it makes the water smell fresh and clean. LOL On a side note, healthy fish tanks should smell kind of plain and earthy. If they have a bad odor, it usually means that the gravel isn't being vacuumed enough during the weekly PWC's and filter maintenance. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Walker Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Betta As of last week he has spent the first 4ish years in a 2 gallon critter carrier. But since he got all stressed out after the water change 2 weeks ago, I went and got him a 5 gallon tank. Since the 5 gallon doesnt fit into the cubby his 2 gallon fit in, I had to move him else where in my room. And since he is out of the line of fire of the heat vent and his water would not stay nearly as warm, he has a small heater in his new tank, which his temps are at 78 degrees. He gets a water change once weekly, and today he got his which was when I noticed the change in him. He has a small sponge filter in his tank which gets rinsed off in room temp water once weekly a day after his water change. I actually keep him without any gravel the entire time I have had him. I plan on getting him some for this new tank next week when I get paid.My plot is to put aside 75% of his water in bowls, rinse off the gravel really well and let the filter run for a bit before putting him back into the tank. I never put it in there simply because wih a 2 gallon tank, it is hard to do a small water change as it is, with the gravel in there it would be even harder to clean. I bought BettaFix today simply because I personally can not stand the smell of Melafix, great med, we use it at work, but I hate the smell. I also brought home some anti-parasite pellet food also to give to him, which are the same size as his betta bites. He happily eats it as he ate it tonight for me. I did bring home more salt for him today. I was never sure abou salting a betta tank, but when I was reading up on how to fix his problem, it went over salting the tank, so i decided to get some while I was at it. I was thinking after he got better, adding a couple of ghst shrimp to his tank, but to be compleatly honest, I am afraid theymay bring something into his tank and make him sick, which is why I have kept him alone for all these years. If I were to bring the ghost shrimp home for some tank buddies, hw lng should I QT them for? Should i treat them for anything? I was thinking it woudnt be a bad idea to give the shrim anti-parasite food as i would think they would be more apt to carry it. I adore this fish, last thing I want to do is bring in something that will just make him worse. ~melissa --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Hi Melissa, > > Fin rot and the white poop are both signs of bacterial issues in your > water and fish. The white poop could also be a digestive tract > parasitic issue. > In short, you fish is sick. The most common cause of sick fish are > water quality issues so lets fix that first while working on treating > the fish. > You should be doing daily 25% PWC's (partial water > changes) and vacuuming > the gravel with each PWC. > > How big is the tank/bowl that he is in? Tell us more about his home > and your maintenance habits... how often do you do PWC's, vacuum the > gravel, etc.? > > Where are you located? Does your LFS or chain store carry fish > medicines? > What brand/kind do you currently have? > > For the fin rot, I would start with a Melafix treatment to the water > column. > Use NO MORE than 50% of the normal dosage and 25% might be even > better. > That would mean to use 1/2 or 1/4 of the recommended dosage. For > labyrinth fish like bettas and gouramis, the strong smell of the > melafix active ingredient messes with their breathing when they breath > from the surface with their labyrinth. API, the makers of Melafix, > also make a product called Bettafix which is just a 10% solution of > Melafix but it's just as expensive as Melafix so you would be better > off getting Melafix and using a partial dosage of 1/2 or less. I've > used up to 50% with labyrinth fish without having any problems. > > The Melafix will also help with an internal bacterial issue but not so > much with parasites... if that is what your guy has. > There are anti-parasitic > foods that you may be able to dose his favorite food with but then he > may not eat it so you'll have to try it and see. > > Even if you don't have access to all of the meds that are recommended, > if you start doing daily 25% PWC's, this will vastly improve his water > quality and then the fishes immune system should get stronger and he > might be able to fight off the problems on his own. > > You can also add salt to his PWC water starting off with 1 level > teaspoon per gallon (0.1%) on the first day and working your way up to > three level teaspoons per gallon (0.3%). This article goes over salt > as a treatment in more detail so read over the entire article. > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Melissa Walker > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick Betta > > > When I went to go change his tank today I noticed his tail was shorter > than usual (he is naturally a shorter tailed beetta), and at the ends > of the fin it looked almost swollen. So I held him up so I could see > him better. Doesnt look like a fish "cooties" I have ever seen before. > The tips of his fins are > red and like I said, the very edge seems almost swollen. He looks a > little thinner also, not a big difference, but there is a difference. > And something I have never seen before, there was normal feces in his > tank as usual, but there was also white stuff. It was just random > white stuff, almost like clearish white feces. Does he has some sort > of parasite going on? I have to wonder if him being stressed out the > other week with his water change if it brought it on. I am assuming he > has fin rot, although I have never personlly seen fin rot like this on > his tail, but it is physically shorter than usual. > Basicly I need to know what to get him to make him better. > > ~Melissa > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 6:58 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26382	From: Tim Fairchild	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 01:16:32 pm „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ wrote: > Well I was told it was good for the gills and many other things but the > reason I started adding it was because my swordtail has a white spot > (flat..not ick..doesnt move..not fuzzy and not a hole) that has been there > for a couple of months. I have not been able to find anything like it any > where even on sites lenny gave me so since I do not know what it is and its > not effecting any of the other fish with him I decided to try salt. > Although its still there. Should I not continue using it? Like I said the > use of salt is new to me. Well, maybe it's a tropical thing, but I have to keep salt in my rainbow tanks. I have a very bad fungus problem if I do not. The fish in the wild who go upstream during the wet season also suffer fungus problem even in the wild. They spend much of the year downstream in holes nearer the brackish water and maybe it's not an issue there... Anyway, I always keep 1 gram/litre of salt and that is enough. You can use as much as 2g/l but you don't necessarily need that much. You don't replace salt when replacing water lost by evaporation, and you have to allow for evaporation in the water change. For example if I have a 200 litre tank and it is down 20 litres I will syphon 50% of the water and fill the tank but only add salt as if I was adding 100 litres even though you might add 110 litres. Anyway, 1 g/l salt does not appear to be harmful to many species, but it depends on what you have. tim -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tim Fairchild Atchafalaya Border Collies. Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email mailto:tim@... Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf Blog http://bcs4me.com/blog BC Forum http://bcs4me.com/forum Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bcsr4ever ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26383	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?

I've never owned swordtails so I'm not sure but it could just be a pigmentation issue and not be a disease or illness at all. If he's not acting sick and the spot is dormant, then I wouldn't treat it. It could also be a melanoma which is more common in hybrid and cross bred fish. Not much can be done if it is this and oftentimes, fish will live relatively normal lives with varying degrees of skin cancer issues and tumors... and salt won't help if it is a pigmentation issue or melanoma issue. http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1440-169X.1980.00731.x?cookieSet=1 http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/reprint/17/6/597.pdf Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 9:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? Well I was told it was good for the gills and many other things but the reason I started adding it was because my swordtail has a white spot (flat..not ick..doesnt move..not fuzzy and not a hole) that has been there for a couple of months. I have not been able to find anything like it any where even on sites lenny gave me so since I do not know what it is and its not effecting any of the other fish with him I decided to try salt. Although its still there. Should I not continue using it? Like I said the use of salt is new to me. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? I may have missed something in the earlier threads you have been involved it. Just why are you adding salt? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 9:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? When I do my weekly water changes do I add more salt each time to the fresh water I am putting in? Im new (just put some in earlier this week) to putting the aquarium salt in. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 6:58 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26384	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?

Thanks Lenny. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 11:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? I've never owned swordtails so I'm not sure but it could just be a pigmentation issue and not be a disease or illness at all. If he's not acting sick and the spot is dormant, then I wouldn't treat it. It could also be a melanoma which is more common in hybrid and cross bred fish. Not much can be done if it is this and oftentimes, fish will live relatively normal lives with varying degrees of skin cancer issues and tumors.. and salt won't help if it is a pigmentation issue or melanoma issue. http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1440-169X.1980.00731.x?cookieSet=1 http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/reprint/17/6/597.pdf Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 9:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? Well I was told it was good for the gills and many other things but the reason I started adding it was because my swordtail has a white spot (flat..not ick..doesnt move..not fuzzy and not a hole) that has been there for a couple of months. I have not been able to find anything like it any where even on sites lenny gave me so since I do not know what it is and its not effecting any of the other fish with him I decided to try salt. Although its still there. Should I not continue using it? Like I said the use of salt is new to me. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? I may have missed something in the earlier threads you have been involved it. Just why are you adding salt? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 9:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? When I do my weekly water changes do I add more salt each time to the fresh water I am putting in? Im new (just put some in earlier this week) to putting the aquarium salt in. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 6:58 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26385	From: Amy	Date: 3/7/2008
Subject: An Alliance? Perhaps?

I have the weirdest thing going on in my brackish tank. First off it is 55 gallons and it holds 2 6" Scats, 1 shot glass sized GS Puffer, 1 half dollar sized F8 Puffer, and 2 night goby's. Ok so here it is the weirdest thing ever going on in that tank. Every two weeks I drop about 10 small feeder guppies into the tank to give the puffers something to do and they usually gobble every last one up in about 10 minutes. Well then I noticed one guppie still kickin it in the tank. For 2 weeks now that guppie has been living in harmony with 4 fish who could just gobble it up, but aren't. Now a bit puzzled and more so amused, I just threw in another 10 guppies and assumed that they would gobble them all up. Wouldn't you know it, that guppie is still in the tank!!! He isn't any bigger than the other guppies, so that ain't it. The hubby teases that the guppie must have formed some sort of alliance with the other fish, that is the only explaination. Have you guys ever heard of such a thing?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26386	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?

There are many uses for salt in aquaria. Sometimes it is used as a prophylactic, as you seem to be doing now. Long term use of salt in this manner is not recommended. Salt can be used in the treatment of many diseases and parasite infections. In fact, it is the preferred treatment in some cases, and in all others, is at least helpful in controlling, if not defeating, various infections you may experience. Salt can be used when cleaning aquaria and the decorative items placed within. If you have soft water, and you wish to keep fish that prefer hard water, a method of providing the various minerals that make water hard is to use salt. In such cases using marine salt is a good way to go if a specific salt mixture for the water you desire is not readily available. When you are using salt, the way to do a water change to retain a specific concentration is to replace the water that has evaporated, then do your water change. Add the salt needed to the water you are using for the change, or add it directly to the tank as the water is being changed. When water evaporates from your tank, the salt concentration will increase, ever so slightly in most cases, and adding the fresh water to the tank brings the concentration back to what you wish. If the water is not replaced before the change, slowly you will be raising the concentration in your tank, and may, eventually, reach a point at which your fish will not do well. Of course, at that point, you will be scratching your head, if not pull out your hair, trying to figure out what is wrong with your setup. This also argues for the occasional massive water change in your tank, even if you are not adding any substance to the water, since various minerals in even the softest water will gradually build up due to the evaporation that is not replaced. It is more efficient to do a massive water change once or twice a year than to continually replace evaporation each week prior to changing you water. Salt is a good treatment while you research the problem with your fish. If you do not see any change in your swordtail after a few weeks, I would discontinue the use of salt in the tank, and then simply remove it via a series of regular water changes. In your case, Lenny has given you some good info on what it may be to follow up, and once you can determine precisely what the problem is, you can follow the course of treatment recommended for that problem. This is why it is good to always have a small tank on hand, so you can quarantine a fish, or several, from the general population while it is being treated, so the other fish do not need to go through the rigors of the treatment as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 10:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? Well I was told it was good for the gills and many other things but the reason I started adding it was because my swordtail has a white spot (flat..not ick..doesnt move..not fuzzy and not a hole) that has been there for a couple of months. I have not been able to find anything like it any where even on sites lenny gave me so since I do not know what it is and its not effecting any of the other fish with him I decided to try salt. Although its still there. Should I not continue using it? Like I said the use of salt is new to me. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? I may have missed something in the earlier threads you have been involved it. Just why are you adding salt? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 9:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? When I do my weekly water changes do I add more salt each time to the fresh water I am putting in? Im new (just put some in earlier this week) to putting the aquarium salt in. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26387	From: Tim Fairchild	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:41:31 pm Steve Szabo wrote: > > This also argues for the occasional massive water change in your tank, even > if you are not adding any substance to the water, since various minerals in > even the softest water will gradually build up due to the evaporation that > is not replaced. It is more efficient to do a massive water change once or > twice a year than to continually replace evaporation each week prior to > changing you water. I have had no problems doing massive (90%) water changes on tanks and will do this once or twice a year to 'reset' the tank water concentrations. Also 50% water changes are not a problem. I used to believe the old 'aged water' myth when I was young, but of course now know the bacteria live elsewhere and the water is just water (within reason). It's hot here and with all the evaporation and top ups, the tanks can get very out of whack here. tim -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tim Fairchild Atchafalaya Border Collies. Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email mailto:tim@... Homepage http://www.bcs4me.com Photos http://www.pbase.com/amosf Blog http://bcs4me.com/blog BC Forum http://bcs4me.com/forum Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bcsr4ever ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26388	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: should i be worried?

We would need more information to even begin to determine what your fish may have. Give us the size of the tank, the inhabitants, and your water parameters. Also a more thorough description of the "white stuff" on the side of your guppy. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of circus0s Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 5:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] should i be worried? my female guppie has white stuff on her side, she is eating normally, and it is not ick. any help would be appreciated.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26389	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Fish releasing eggs???

Good morning. This morning as I was drinking my coffee I happen to look up at my tank and in a split second it looked like someone had dropped a teaspoon of uncooked grits in the water. The fish went crazy and started eating it like frenzied sharks. But it came from the top and dropped down. I got my handy magnifying glass out and tried to find any remains of whatever it was but couldn't locate any. Then, a moment ago it happened again. This time I was sitting beside the tank and got a good look. One of my Buenos Aires Barbs swan really fast to the top, jumped out of the water a bit and the next thing I know that area of the tank was full of these clear-ish looking balls again. The fish went nuts and started gobbling it all up. I'm going to assume these were eggs, yes??? Why would she release them like this? Is it normal? I thought they placed them on plants or at least on the bottom in the gravel. While it was really kinda' cool, and the other fish absolutely loved it, it just struck me as odd. At this moment most of my fish are in that area of the tank, on the bottom, scavenging up scraps. Lisa Alabama, USA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26390	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Used Water, Salt flats, basements, moving fishrooms, lol

Salt Flats are beautiful too. I live by the Bonneville Salt Flats. Lot's of photo shoots happen there. My boyfriend's family used to own the famous Mormon Meteor that raced on them. Pretty cool. Kate Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: Rhonda, Then you should have done the salt flats. Then you could have held races for speed record with radio controlled cars <g>. I've only been through Arizona, and it was summer, so I know what you mean by the heat. You can only take off so many clothes . . . \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rhonda Wilson Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Used Water, Salt flats, basements, moving fishrooms, lol Umm, well I did at one time put my used sw tank water in to a kiddie pool with some caulerpa and a few rocks. Even under a shade cloth the Arizona sun was too much for it and it didn't work. I didn't try that one again. I do regularly keep pools of fw fish and some plants outside. Even with fw plants most of them can't handle the sun/heat here even under the shade cloth. Heck it's amazing anything can live. I've decided to get the heck out of here and am moving north back to Washington this spring. I may end up with one of those basement things again Ray was talking about. I'm also looking in to the idea of a greenhouse fishhouse, so if anyone has done that I'd like to know how it went. I'm not looking forward to moving the fishroom and since I will most likely end up renting while I look for a new place to buy I will probably have to move it twice. ughh. I recently took a photo of myself in the fishroom I'll try to see if I'm clever enough this morning to post it on the aquaticlife yahoo site. lol Rhonda http://naturalaquariums.com > > Posted by: "Steve Szabo" steve@... > <mailto:steve@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Used%20Water> > stevesza <http://profiles.yahoo.com/stevesza> > > > Thu Mar 6, 2008 4:19 pm (PST) > > What? No Rhonda Salt Flats? No Tiny Salt Lake? Come on, where is your > imagination? <g> > > \\Steve// --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26391	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?

Absolutely. I think there's just some weird alliance built in the animal kingdom every once in a while. I've had that exact same thing happen with turtles and a goldfish and a snake and one particular mouse. Kate Amy <lovemyboys1976@...> wrote: I have the weirdest thing going on in my brackish tank. First off it is 55 gallons and it holds 2 6" Scats, 1 shot glass sized GS Puffer, 1 half dollar sized F8 Puffer, and 2 night goby's. Ok so here it is the weirdest thing ever going on in that tank. Every two weeks I drop about 10 small feeder guppies into the tank to give the puffers something to do and they usually gobble every last one up in about 10 minutes. Well then I noticed one guppie still kickin it in the tank. For 2 weeks now that guppie has been living in harmony with 4 fish who could just gobble it up, but aren't. Now a bit puzzled and more so amused, I just threw in another 10 guppies and assumed that they would gobble them all up. Wouldn't you know it, that guppie is still in the tank!!! He isn't any bigger than the other guppies, so that ain't it. The hubby teases that the guppie must have formed some sort of alliance with the other fish, that is the only explaination. Have you guys ever heard of such a thing? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26392	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Question about salt?

While I agree with doing "massive water changes", I don't think one should do it in a single phase as you could drastically change the water parameters of the tank resulting in unnecessary stress and/or pH shock or water temperature shock. pH shock can be fatal to some fish. If you do want to do a "massive water change", I would recommend doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every 2-3 hours, this way you would only have a chance to alter the water parameters by only 25% giving the fish a chance to acclimate to the new water parameters with each 25% PWC. You would still want to match the temperature as closely as possible, within 1-2F, with each PWC. Here are what the numbers would look like. Old Water - 100% After 1st PWC (25%) - Old Water - 75%, New Water - 25% After 2nd PWC - Old Water - 56%, New Water - 44% After 3rd PWC - Old Water - 42%, New Water - 58% You could continue with 25% PWC's or jump up to 50% PWC's at this point since the tank is over 50% New Water so a 50% PWC would only result in a 25% change in water parameters. If you continued with 25% PWC's, these would be the resulting percentages which as you will see, result in diminishing returns. Old Water - 31%, New Water - 69% Old Water - 24%, New Water - 76% Old Water - 18%, New Water - 82% If you jump up to a 50% PWC after the 3rd 25% PWC, these would be the resulting percentages. After 4th PWC (now 50%) - Old Water - 21%, New Water - 79% After 5th PWC (50%) - Old Water - 10.5%, New Water - 89.5% By doing your "massive water change" this way, you would accomplish a 90% water change through the course of one day, giving the fish and their osmoregulatory system a chance to acclimate to the changing water parameters, rather than the possibility of putting your fish into shock or causing undue stress to the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Fairchild Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 6:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about salt? On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:41:31 pm Steve Szabo wrote: > > This also argues for the occasional massive water change in your tank, > even if you are not adding any substance to the water, since various > minerals in even the softest water will gradually build up due to the > evaporation that is not replaced. It is more efficient to do a massive > water change once or twice a year than to continually replace > evaporation each week prior to changing you water. I have had no problems doing massive (90%) water changes on tanks and will do this once or twice a year to 'reset' the tank water concentrations. Also 50% water changes are not a problem. I used to believe the old 'aged water' myth when I was young, but of course now know the bacteria live elsewhere and the water is just water (within reason). It's hot here and with all the evaporation and top ups, the tanks can get very out of whack here. tim -- ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1318 - Release Date: 3/7/2008 2:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Fish releasing eggs???

I've heard of Buenos Aires Tetras but not barbs. Could they be B.A.Tetras? http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hemigrammus_caudovittatus.html Here's an article I have in my favorites folder about egg-scatterer's. http://www.characin.com/carey/articles/98/spawning_tetras.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Robinson Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish releasing eggs??? Good morning. This morning as I was drinking my coffee I happen to look up at my tank and in a split second it looked like someone had dropped a teaspoon of uncooked grits in the water. The fish went crazy and started eating it like frenzied sharks. But it came from the top and dropped down. I got my handy magnifying glass out and tried to find any remains of whatever it was but couldn't locate any. Then, a moment ago it happened again. This time I was sitting beside the tank and got a good look. One of my Buenos Aires Barbs swan really fast to the top, jumped out of the water a bit and the next thing I know that area of the tank was full of these clear-ish looking balls again. The fish went nuts and started gobbling it all up. I'm going to assume these were eggs, yes??? Why would she release them like this? Is it normal? I thought they placed them on plants or at least on the bottom in the gravel. While it was really kinda' cool, and the other fish absolutely loved it, it just struck me as odd. At this moment most of my fish are in that area of the tank, on the bottom, scavenging up scraps. Lisa Alabama, USA No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1318 - Release Date: 3/7/2008 2:01 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1318 - Release Date: 3/7/2008 2:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26394	From: hank voss	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Fish releasing eggs???

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa Robinson" <oo.lisa.oo@...> wrote: >\ Lisa: Its normal for egglayers to release their eggs.You usually dont see it because the other fish eat them as fast as they drop them.If they did not get rid of the eggs from time to time they go bad and rot causing bloat(swelling)which quite often is fatal. Regards Hank > Good morning. > > This morning as I was drinking my coffee I happen > > to look up at my tank and in a split second it looked like > > someone had dropped a teaspoon of uncooked grits > > in the water. The fish went crazy and started eating it > > like frenzied sharks. But it came from the top and dropped > > down. I got my handy magnifying glass out and tried > > to find any remains of whatever it was but couldn't locate > > any. Then, a moment ago it happened again. This time > > I was sitting beside the tank and got a good look. One > > of my Buenos Aires Barbs swan really fast to the top, > > jumped out of the water a bit and the next thing I know > > that area of the tank was full of these clear-ish looking balls > > again. The fish went nuts and started gobbling it all up. > > I'm going to assume these were eggs, yes??? Why would > > she release them like this? Is it normal? I thought they > > placed them on plants or at least on the bottom in the > > gravel. While it was really kinda' cool, and the other fish > > absolutely loved it, it just struck me as odd. At this moment > > most of my fish are in that area of the tank, on the bottom, > > scavenging up scraps. > > Lisa > > Alabama, USA >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26395	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: disease question

It would be a rational decision if you were to return the baby crawfish, as you are contemplating. additionally, as Lenny suggested, it would be in the best interest of maintaining your tank (and the health of the other fish0, if you were also to return the Rainbow Shark. I would not suggest maintaining the Clown Loach long term as, although they are one of the slower growing species, they can average 12" when fully grown. They also do best in groups, as too has been pointed out, although if you could make arrangements with your LFS owner perhaps you could trade them in for smaller ones as they grew too large. A group of 5 may be best suited, but a minimum of 3 would work out. When tests come out as "safe," we really need to know what the exact numbers are in order to decide the best course of action. Although for now I'll take it as everything is "normal," I see you're already aware of your ammonia and nitrite problems. This alone can cause diseases to set in. I'm only presuming you take the time to watch your fish carefully, but I just want to point out that lone Zebra Danios may become somewhat of a fin-nipper if not kept in groups (of at least 5). This may be the cause of the white fin edgings, although in the case of the Angelfish it could be due to high PH even though I don't see you giving a reading for that. While Angels can adapt to high pH's when introduced to them slowly, young Angels do not tolerate high pH if its changed suddenly from their previous environment, if that environment is much lower in pH. This can be manifested as white fin edges since the sudden change will stress them to the point of a bacterial invasion of their fins, especially if they have recently been moved (netted) rsulting in a loss of mucous coating protection. As Steve brings out, Maracyn II (Minocycline) is an excellent gram- negative antibiotic effective against the pathogens responsible for fin & tail rot. Other also effective are Kanamycin and Nitrofurazone. The Jungle Fungus Eliminator you mention contains just that (Nitrofurazone + Furadolizone and Potassium Dichromate -- and salt). Your hardness of 150 ppm (8.5 dGH) is not really considered "hard" and is of little consequence as to a reason for your disease problems. BTW, Freshwater Biozyme will not promote much of a population of nitrifying bacteria. If still in need of these bacteria, try to find a fresh source of BioSpira (live bacteria) which is to be stored refrigerated until used. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jgana10" <jgana10@...> wrote: > > Thanks Steve and Lenny, > > In my 30 g tank prior to setting up the hospital tank, I had one > rainbow shark (1.5"), one clown loach (1"), 5 small neon tetras, 3 > small glowlight tetras, one young angelfish about a little larger > than a quarter, 4 guppys and 5 fry (1cm each), and one zebra danio > (1"). One of my kids bought a baby crawfish too, but I may bring it > back to the store as I hear they will grow and catch the fish. All of > our fish are small and relatively new as we only bought the tank etc > a few months ago. > > The ones that have been quaranteened are the angelfish, 2 guppies, 3 > tetras and zebra danio. > > I've been doing 25% water changes every two weeks including vaccuming > the gravel a bit. We have a Tetra Power Filter 40, that has white > fuzzy filter bags with carbon in them. I have one fern-like live > plant, the rest are plastic. (in the quarnatine tank we have the same > type of smaller filter, and I poor the carbon out of the bag and > reinsert when treating the fish). > > When I test the water every thing comes out "safe" and normal except > for the high ammonia in the small tank, and in both the Nitrite > levels are high (5-10) mmg/L, and the water is Hard (150 ppm). > > The symptoms were first that the outer edges of the fins on several > fish turned white. some were also a tiny bit ragged. No spots. Just > white edges on the fins (tail, top and bottom). The anglfish's got > the worst, it spread throughout the whole tail and is the only one > that got tufts or fuzzyness. On the two guppies, they also had > patches on their sides that are whitish gray. Almost like they were > rubbed with sandpaper. One of the tetras also happens to have very > red, raw gills (since we first got him). > > I have used TetraAqua Aquasafe with water chages to try to condition > the water in both tanks. I've tried TopFin Ammonia Remover in the > hospital tank. I also tried Freshater Biozyme in both tanks to get > good bacteria in to help. The first medicine I tried in the hospital > tank was API Triple Sulfa for three days and seemed to do nothing. I > stopped put AMMOCARB back into the filter in the small tank to > stabalize the system and ammonia instead of the original carbon only > rocks. Now that its stable I'm going to try a different medicine > called "Jungle Fungus Eliminator". > > Actually I just realized in the main tank we also have a large red > brick/clayish pourous rock we bought that the same store as the tank > and fish for landscape in the tank and for the fish to swim through > the arch in it, and see that it has small tufts of white stuff in the > cracks and holes. Maybe thats a source of problems. > > Thanks again. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Generally, all of these kinds of issues start up as a result of > water > > quality issues. What were your readings for ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH > > and any other tests you have prior to having these issues? How > often are > > you doing PWC's (25% partial water changes)? Are you vacuuming > your gravel > > with each PWC? > > > > What is the brand name and type of medicine you are using? Some > meds will > > kill off your nitrifying bacteria so the only thing you can do is > frequent > > PWC's to keep the ammonia levels low enough while treating the fish. > > > > When you take the carbon out, are you leaving the rest of the > filter media > > (floss, sponge, etc.) in? What kind of filter system do you have > on the > > 30G? Brand, etc. Go to my blog and I have a long article on doing > proper > > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" which will give you some ideas on > how to > > possibly modify the way you are doing things and changes you can > make to > > your filter cartridges, presuming that is what you have, so that > you always > > have a fully cycled filter running. What kind of filter system do > you have > > on the 5.5G tank also? > > > > What kind of loach do you have? How many livebearers and tetras do > you > > have? If all of these fish are juveniles and you have plans to get > another > > tank or a larger tank, you may be OK, but if you only plan on > keeping the > > 30G tank, then you may be overstocked which could also be > contributing to > > your health issues. Overstocking causes stress issues to fish and > when fish > > get stressed, their immune system falters and they start to get > sick. > > > > An angelfish should be in a 35G tank as a minimum for long term > success. > > Loaches, depending on the species, can get pretty big and may > require a > > larger tank as well... and most of them should be kept in shoals of > three or > > more which increases their needed tank space even more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of jgana10 > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:29 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] disease question > > > > I think my fish have a fungus problem. Several of them have white > blotches > > on their tails (not small ich spots) and the tips of their top and > bottom > > fins are white and sometimes wasting away. One also has their top > fin > > completely clamped down to the body. And some have whitish patches > on their > > bodies (as though they'd been sandpapered). > > One has very red and raw gills, but that might be something > independent. > > > > Anyway, I have medicine to give them in a seperate > smaller "hospital" tank, > > as soon as I take out the carbon in the filter as the medicine > suggests, > > within a day or two the ammonia levels shoot up to toxic. I don't > want to > > save them from fungus (if anyone thinks its not fungus but > something else > > let me know) only to have them die from ammonia poisining. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > I have a 30 gallon main tank with a mix of livebearers, tetras, a > loach and > > angel. And a 5.5 gallon tank I'm using to treat the 7 sick > > (small) fish. > > Thanks. > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.5/1314 - Release Date: > 3/5/2008 > > 6:38 PM > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26396	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?

It's not an alliance. It's your pets conspiring to mess with your head. They sit around and think of little things they can do that will freak you out and have you searching your books and the internet trying to find an answer... only to find out that our pets don't always read the same things we do. Now, if you want to put their little conspiracy to rest, just don't feed them any more guppies for a while and watch how fast the conspiracy breaks down when one of them start to see that remaining guppy for what it really is... FOOD!!! LOL Of course, they could have adopted that particular guppy as a pet, like a human might have a pet chicken while we eat all the others. In that situation, it would take drastic hunger before they would decide it's time to eat the pet. MMMMMM.. fried or barbecued "Fuzzy the Easter chicken". LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] An Alliance? Perhaps? Absolutely. I think there's just some weird alliance built in the animal kingdom every once in a while. I've had that exact same thing happen with turtles and a goldfish and a snake and one particular mouse. Kate Amy <lovemyboys1976@... <mailto:lovemyboys1976%40yahoo.com> > wrote: I have the weirdest thing going on in my brackish tank. First off it is 55 gallons and it holds 2 6" Scats, 1 shot glass sized GS Puffer, 1 half dollar sized F8 Puffer, and 2 night goby's. Ok so here it is the weirdest thing ever going on in that tank. Every two weeks I drop about 10 small feeder guppies into the tank to give the puffers something to do and they usually gobble every last one up in about 10 minutes. Well then I noticed one guppie still kickin it in the tank. For 2 weeks now that guppie has been living in harmony with 4 fish who could just gobble it up, but aren't. Now a bit puzzled and more so amused, I just threw in another 10 guppies and assumed that they would gobble them all up. Wouldn't you know it, that guppie is still in the tank!!! He isn't any bigger than the other guppies, so that ain't it. The hubby teases that the guppie must have formed some sort of alliance with the other fish, that is the only explaination. Have you guys ever heard of such a thing? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1318 - Release Date: 3/7/2008 2:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26397	From: Jason Miller	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: new

Thanks a lot Nimish that was a lot of good information to get me started. That helps a great deal. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26398	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Fish releasing eggs???

They are Tetras. Sorry 'bout that. I had not met my quota of coffee when I typed that out; lol. Since mailing this she has done it 3 times. I think she's done now. The whole thing was very interesting and cool to me. Maybe one survived. Thanks bunches, Lisa -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 3/8/2008 9:50:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish releasing eggs??? I've heard of Buenos Aires Tetras but not barbs. Could they be B.A.Tetras? http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hemigrammus_caudovittatus.html Here's an article I have in my favorites folder about egg-scatterer's. http://www.characin.com/carey/articles/98/spawning_tetras.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26399	From: jgana10	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: disease question

Thanks for the help everyone. I'll rethink my fish mix and research the stress factors. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > It would be a rational decision if you were to return the baby > crawfish, as you are contemplating. additionally, as Lenny > suggested, it would be in the best interest of maintaining your tank > (and the health of the other fish0, if you were also to return the > Rainbow Shark. I would not suggest maintaining the Clown Loach long > term as, although they are one of the slower growing species, they > can average 12" when fully grown. They also do best in groups, as > too has been pointed out, although if you could make arrangements > with your LFS owner perhaps you could trade them in for smaller ones > as they grew too large. A group of 5 may be best suited, but a > minimum of 3 would work out. When tests come out as "safe," we > really need to know what the exact numbers are in order to decide the > best course of action. Although for now I'll take it as everything > is "normal," I see you're already aware of your ammonia and nitrite > problems. This alone can cause diseases to set in. > > I'm only presuming you take the time to watch your fish carefully, > but I just want to point out that lone Zebra Danios may become > somewhat of a fin-nipper if not kept in groups (of at least 5). This > may be the cause of the white fin edgings, although in the case of > the Angelfish it could be due to high PH even though I don't see you > giving a reading for that. While Angels can adapt to high pH's when > introduced to them slowly, young Angels do not tolerate high pH if > its changed suddenly from their previous environment, if that > environment is much lower in pH. This can be manifested as white fin > edges since the sudden change will stress them to the point of a > bacterial invasion of their fins, especially if they have recently > been moved (netted) rsulting in a loss of mucous coating protection. > > As Steve brings out, Maracyn II (Minocycline) is an excellent gram- > negative antibiotic effective against the pathogens responsible for > fin & tail rot. Other also effective are Kanamycin and > Nitrofurazone. The Jungle Fungus Eliminator you mention contains > just that (Nitrofurazone + Furadolizone and Potassium Dichromate -- > and salt). Your hardness of 150 ppm (8.5 dGH) is not really > considered "hard" and is of little consequence as to a reason for > your disease problems. BTW, Freshwater Biozyme will not promote > much of a population of nitrifying bacteria. If still in need of > these bacteria, try to find a fresh source of BioSpira (live > bacteria) which is to be stored refrigerated until used. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jgana10" <jgana10@> wrote: > > > > Thanks Steve and Lenny, > > > > In my 30 g tank prior to setting up the hospital tank, I had one > > rainbow shark (1.5"), one clown loach (1"), 5 small neon tetras, 3 > > small glowlight tetras, one young angelfish about a little larger > > than a quarter, 4 guppys and 5 fry (1cm each), and one zebra danio > > (1"). One of my kids bought a baby crawfish too, but I may bring it > > back to the store as I hear they will grow and catch the fish. All > of > > our fish are small and relatively new as we only bought the tank > etc > > a few months ago. > > > > The ones that have been quaranteened are the angelfish, 2 guppies, > 3 > > tetras and zebra danio. > > > > I've been doing 25% water changes every two weeks including > vaccuming > > the gravel a bit. We have a Tetra Power Filter 40, that has white > > fuzzy filter bags with carbon in them. I have one fern-like live > > plant, the rest are plastic. (in the quarnatine tank we have the > same > > type of smaller filter, and I poor the carbon out of the bag and > > reinsert when treating the fish). > > > > When I test the water every thing comes out "safe" and normal > except > > for the high ammonia in the small tank, and in both the Nitrite > > levels are high (5-10) mmg/L, and the water is Hard (150 ppm). > > > > The symptoms were first that the outer edges of the fins on several > > fish turned white. some were also a tiny bit ragged. No spots. Just > > white edges on the fins (tail, top and bottom). The anglfish's got > > the worst, it spread throughout the whole tail and is the only one > > that got tufts or fuzzyness. On the two guppies, they also had > > patches on their sides that are whitish gray. Almost like they were > > rubbed with sandpaper. One of the tetras also happens to have very > > red, raw gills (since we first got him). > > > > I have used TetraAqua Aquasafe with water chages to try to > condition > > the water in both tanks. I've tried TopFin Ammonia Remover in the > > hospital tank. I also tried Freshater Biozyme in both tanks to get > > good bacteria in to help. The first medicine I tried in the > hospital > > tank was API Triple Sulfa for three days and seemed to do nothing. > I > > stopped put AMMOCARB back into the filter in the small tank to > > stabalize the system and ammonia instead of the original carbon > only > > rocks. Now that its stable I'm going to try a different medicine > > called "Jungle Fungus Eliminator". > > > > Actually I just realized in the main tank we also have a large red > > brick/clayish pourous rock we bought that the same store as the > tank > > and fish for landscape in the tank and for the fish to swim through > > the arch in it, and see that it has small tufts of white stuff in > the > > cracks and holes. Maybe thats a source of problems. > > > > Thanks again. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Generally, all of these kinds of issues start up as a result of > > water > > > quality issues. What were your readings for ammonia, nitrite, > > nitrate, pH > > > and any other tests you have prior to having these issues? How > > often are > > > you doing PWC's (25% partial water changes)? Are you vacuuming > > your gravel > > > with each PWC? > > > > > > What is the brand name and type of medicine you are using? Some > > meds will > > > kill off your nitrifying bacteria so the only thing you can do is > > frequent > > > PWC's to keep the ammonia levels low enough while treating the > fish. > > > > > > When you take the carbon out, are you leaving the rest of the > > filter media > > > (floss, sponge, etc.) in? What kind of filter system do you have > > on the > > > 30G? Brand, etc. Go to my blog and I have a long article on > doing > > proper > > > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" which will give you some ideas > on > > how to > > > possibly modify the way you are doing things and changes you can > > make to > > > your filter cartridges, presuming that is what you have, so that > > you always > > > have a fully cycled filter running. What kind of filter system > do > > you have > > > on the 5.5G tank also? > > > > > > What kind of loach do you have? How many livebearers and tetras > do > > you > > > have? If all of these fish are juveniles and you have plans to > get > > another > > > tank or a larger tank, you may be OK, but if you only plan on > > keeping the > > > 30G tank, then you may be overstocked which could also be > > contributing to > > > your health issues. Overstocking causes stress issues to fish > and > > when fish > > > get stressed, their immune system falters and they start to get > > sick. > > > > > > An angelfish should be in a 35G tank as a minimum for long term > > success. > > > Loaches, depending on the species, can get pretty big and may > > require a > > > larger tank as well... and most of them should be kept in shoals > of > > three or > > > more which increases their needed tank space even more. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of jgana10 > > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:29 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] disease question > > > > > > I think my fish have a fungus problem. Several of them have white > > blotches > > > on their tails (not small ich spots) and the tips of their top > and > > bottom > > > fins are white and sometimes wasting away. One also has their top > > fin > > > completely clamped down to the body. And some have whitish > patches > > on their > > > bodies (as though they'd been sandpapered). > > > One has very red and raw gills, but that might be something > > independent. > > > > > > Anyway, I have medicine to give them in a seperate > > smaller "hospital" tank, > > > as soon as I take out the carbon in the filter as the medicine > > suggests, > > > within a day or two the ammonia levels shoot up to toxic. I don't > > want to > > > save them from fungus (if anyone thinks its not fungus but > > something else > > > let me know) only to have them die from ammonia poisining. > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > I have a 30 gallon main tank with a mix of livebearers, tetras, a > > loach and > > > angel. And a 5.5 gallon tank I'm using to treat the 7 sick > > > (small) fish. > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.5/1314 - Release Date: > > 3/5/2008 > > > 6:38 PM > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26400	From: renee31477	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?

My friend had this happen with her ball python and a little mouse...which she named Jerry and put in his own cage after being with the snake 3 days..She said she came home one day and found the mouse curled up on top of the snake sleeping!! She thought Jerry he was dead at first, but then he woke up and started begging for food! Maybe they were friends in a former life? lol Renee

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26401	From: Amy	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?

LMAO Lenny thats hilarious!!! Yah maybe its their new pet. I wonder what they named him. And get this that same guppie traveled to our new house for 2 hours in with the 2 puffers. I didn't even try to catch him and put him in the buckets. He just kinda made sure he made it into the net. Dang fish, now I am starting to think they are smarter than humans. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It's not an alliance. It's your pets conspiring to mess with your head. > They sit around and think of little things they can do that will freak you > out and have you searching your books and the internet trying to find an > answer... only to find out that our pets don't always read the same things > we do. > > Now, if you want to put their little conspiracy to rest, just don't feed > them any more guppies for a while and watch how fast the conspiracy breaks > down when one of them start to see that remaining guppy for what it really > is... FOOD!!! LOL > > Of course, they could have adopted that particular guppy as a pet, like a > human might have a pet chicken while we eat all the others. In that > situation, it would take drastic hunger before they would decide it's time > to eat the pet. MMMMMM.. fried or barbecued "Fuzzy the Easter chicken". > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kate Conrow > Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] An Alliance? Perhaps? > > Absolutely. I think there's just some weird alliance built in the animal > kingdom every once in a while. I've had that exact same thing happen with > turtles and a goldfish and a snake and one particular mouse. > Kate > > Amy <lovemyboys1976@... <mailto:lovemyboys1976%40yahoo.com> > wrote: I > have the weirdest thing going on in my brackish tank. First off it is 55 > gallons and it holds 2 6" Scats, 1 shot glass sized GS Puffer, 1 half dollar > sized F8 Puffer, and 2 night goby's. Ok so here it is the weirdest thing > ever going on in that tank. Every two weeks I drop about 10 small feeder > guppies into the tank to give the puffers something to do and they usually > gobble every last one up in about 10 minutes. Well then I noticed one guppie > still kickin it in the tank. > For 2 weeks now that guppie has been living in harmony with 4 fish who could > just gobble it up, but aren't. Now a bit puzzled and more so amused, I just > threw in another 10 guppies and assumed that they would gobble them all up. > Wouldn't you know it, that guppie is still in the tank!!! He isn't any > bigger than the other guppies, so that ain't it. > The hubby teases that the guppie must have formed some sort of alliance with > the other fish, that is the only explaination. Have you guys ever heard of > such a thing? > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1318 - Release Date: 3/7/2008 > 2:01 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26402	From: marsha wilburn	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Seahorses

I have kept seahoses in the past and was highly disappointed with them. The horses never moved from their fan, and had to be hand fed each day from a turkey baster. The pair lived about a year before my hermit crabs ate them one day. Seahorses have no natural defense besides blending in to their surroundings, so it is recommended not to put them in anything but a species tank. Make sure to keep up on your water perameters, their hardiness is not that great. Good luck, and I hope you enjoy them. ----- Original Message ---- From: armstrongm44 <armstrongm44@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 7, 2008 3:47:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Seahorses I am getting 2 seahorses tomorrow, I just cant wait my tank has been set up for them for 2 months now. I did a lot of looking on the Internet about keeping them and bombarded 2 aquarium owners that I go to with lots of questions, and made sure I was getting all the right things for them and that my tank was set up correctly for them.... I wondered if there was any one with in this group has any experience 1st hand with seahorses and what it has been like for them to keep sea horses. as I hope to have them for as long as I can, as I have loved seahorses since I was a little girl. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26403	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: Seahorses

I keep seahorses and have raised H.Kuda fry. Some of my breeding stock is going on 3.5 years old. I am not raising any fry at the time,do to the lack of time. ( it takes allot of hours tending to fry's needs) I recommend that you do not buy male and female unless your prepared for the long and tedious process of raising the fry. Female horses have less problems than males, because of them having the pouch, sometimes males develops gas bubbles and other things. As to feeding I just put the frozen cube of mysid shrimp in the tank, and they attack it until its all gone. Some people use a shell and train them to eat from it, and do use a blaster to get the food to the shell,like Marsha is talking about. I have live mysid shrimp at all times ,so if I have a new horse that is being picky, i gut load them and feed live with frozen until they feed hardily on frozen. I love seahorses, tank raised horses are much hardier than wild caught. They are very interactive with their owners,doing the "I'm hunger dance". I sometimes am just mystified by the breeding dance, it's like poetry in motion. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: marsha wilburn To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Seahorses I have kept seahoses in the past and was highly disappointed with them. The horses never moved from their fan, and had to be hand fed each day from a turkey baster. The pair lived about a year before my hermit crabs ate them one day. Seahorses have no natural defense besides blending in to their surroundings, so it is recommended not to put them in anything but a species tank. Make sure to keep up on your water perameters, their hardiness is not that great. Good luck, and I hope you enjoy them. ----- Original Message ---- From: armstrongm44 <armstrongm44@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 7, 2008 3:47:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Seahorses I am getting 2 seahorses tomorrow, I just cant wait my tank has been set up for them for 2 months now. I did a lot of looking on the Internet about keeping them and bombarded 2 aquarium owners that I go to with lots of questions, and made sure I was getting all the right things for them and that my tank was set up correctly for them.... I wondered if there was any one with in this group has any experience 1st hand with seahorses and what it has been like for them to keep sea horses. as I hope to have them for as long as I can, as I have loved seahorses since I was a little girl. __________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26404	From: Kris	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: White Cloud Mountain Minnows

Hi All, I have a great 15 gallon tank in my classroom of 5 WCMM. I would love to add some more fish to the tank so the kids can have something else to watch. Any suggestions for me? Can I add an algee eatter? I also small water snails in the tank. Thanks a bunch Kristy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: White Cloud Mountain Minnows

What grade level are you teaching? My family is full of teachers at various levels, so I can run my ideas past them first. The white clouds are a temperate water fish so they can take cooler temperatures, ideal for a classroom likely to get cool over the weekends and during breaks., so you would need fish that can meet those parameters. Guppies, not the real fancy ones, but those more like the wild type (read feeders) would fit that description, and they are more of a top level fish, while the white clouds would inhabit the middle layers of the tank. Jordanella floridae would also be a good addition. They are commonly called flag fish. They are native to Florida and can withstand the cooler temperatures. They would also inhabit the mid-level of the aquarium. I've been trying to think of some bottom dwellers for you, but none are coming to mind that would be OK in the size tank you have. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kris Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] White Cloud Mountain Minnows Hi All, I have a great 15 gallon tank in my classroom of 5 WCMM. I would love to add some more fish to the tank so the kids can have something else to watch. Any suggestions for me? Can I add an algee eatter? I also small water snails in the tank. Thanks a bunch Kristy Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2008
Subject: Re: White Cloud Mountain Minnows

Hi Kristy, You don't have a lot of room for more fish but you do have some room. Is the tank a 15G long? 24" x 12.5" x 13"? WCMM's http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Tanichthys_albonubes.html are cool water fish which prefer water temps below 75F so this limits you choice of tank mates. Are you keeping the tank at room temp or do you have a heater in the tank? What is the normal water temp highs and lows each day? Do you have live plants in the tank? Not necessary but since you mention that you have small snails, I wanted to check to see if the tank is heavily planted as that would increase the amount of bioload the tank can handle. Otocinclus catfish http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html are algae eaters that stay small and can be kept singly or as a group and can handle the cooler water temps preferred by your WCMM's. Oto's are sensitive to water conditions so it's important to keep up with proper tank maintenance. For more ideas, read over the stocking guidelines for a 10G tank that I have on my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml but remember to check out the profiles on Mongabay http://fish.mongabay.com for any proposed fish to make sure they do well in the lower water temps. While at my blog, check out the "A to Z of fish keeping" page http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/A%20to%20Z%20Of%20Fish%20Keeping and near the top of that page, I have links to two online fish keeping tutorials that you and your students may be interested in. Maybe you could even prepare a quiz based on the tutorials if the students are old enough for such a quiz. This page also lists other cool water fish but check out their profiles to make sure they are compatible with your tank size. http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm The suggested companions for WCMM's according to the Mongabay profile are: Rosy Barb, Corydoras, Neons, Danios, Barbs, Red Phantom Tetra. The suggested companions for Oto's according to the Mongabay profile are: Corydoras, tetras, Discus, Apistogramma I realize Oto's are not listed but it may be an oversight since they both do well in similar water parameters and share some of the suggested companions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kris Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] White Cloud Mountain Minnows Hi All, I have a great 15 gallon tank in my classroom of 5 WCMM. I would love to add some more fish to the tank so the kids can have something else to watch. Any suggestions for me? Can I add an algee eatter? I also small water snails in the tank. Thanks a bunch Kristy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1318 - Release Date: 3/7/2008 2:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26407	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Disease question

I have a 90 g tank. It is somewhat overstockeds based on mature size. All of the fish are currently 2.5 to 3 in or less. Most are 2 in or less. It contains (Gourami) 3-3 spots, 3 gold, 3 Opaline, 3 Giant (Banded), 2 Pearls, 2-Powder Blue (Dwarf), 1-Flame (Dwarf), and 3-Giant Brochis Catfish. I do 25% PWC weekly. On 3/8/2008 the Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=10-15 ppm. On 3/4/2008 KH=5, GH=6, Oxygen=7-8 mg/l, and Phosphate=0.25 ppm. The tank has been established since early Nov. 2007. The tank does not contain any live plants. It has a Fluval 405 canister and a 25 Watt UV Sterilizerand air stone. All fish look good, are eating well and are active. The diet consist of Flake food, freeze dried blood worms, freeze dried tubifex and Sinking Wafers (Hikari) (on a rotating basis). Within the last week I have lost 2 Dwarf gourmis. Both were eating well and active until just before their death. They developed over a period of a few days a slight bulge over the anal fin at about the mid point. Directly below this bulge the fin roted away leaving only the spines. The area affected was only about 1/4 in. of the anal fin. Up until close to the end the fish continued to eat well and remained active. The last day the fish quit eating and remained hidden to its self most of the time. They would come out at feeding time, but usually would not feed. The two fish did not experience this at the same time. First one, then the other. My question is will this likely affect the other fish and what do you think it is? Is it common in Dwarf gourmis? What kind of treatment should I have done? Should I do anything to the rest of the fish? I did purchase these two fish at the same time from the same supplier. I do have a quaratine tank with a pH of 7.5, ammonia and nitrite =0 and nitrate of 5. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26408	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Disease question

I have a 90 g tank. It is somewhat overstockeds based on mature size. All of the fish are currently 2.5 to 3 in or less. Most are 2 in or less. It contains (Gourami) 3-3 spots, 3 gold, 3 Opaline, 3 Giant (Banded), 2 Pearls, 2-Powder Blue (Dwarf), 1-Flame (Dwarf), and 3-Giant Brochis Catfish. I do 25% PWC weekly. On 3/8/2008 the Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=10-15 ppm. On 3/4/2008 KH=5, GH=6, Oxygen=7-8 mg/l, and Phosphate=0.25 ppm. The tank has been established since early Nov. 2007. The tank does not contain any live plants. It has a Fluval 405 canister and a 25 Watt UV Sterilizerand air stone. All fish look good, are eating well and are active. The diet consist of Flake food, freeze dried blood worms, freeze dried tubifex and Sinking Wafers (Hikari) (on a rotating basis). Within the last week I have lost 2 Dwarf gourmis. Both were eating well and active until just before their death. They developed over a period of a few days a slight bulge over the anal fin at about the mid point. Directly below this bulge the fin roted away leaving only the spines. The area affected was only about 1/4 in. of the anal fin. Up until close to the end the fish continued to eat well and remained active. The last day the fish quit eating and remained hidden to its self most of the time. They would come out at feeding time, but usually would not feed. The two fish did not experience this at the same time. First one, then the other. My question is will this likely affect the other fish and what do you think it is? Is it common in Dwarf gourmis? What kind of treatment should I have done? Should I do anything to the rest of the fish? I did purchase these two fish at the same time from the same supplier. I do have a quaratine tank with a pH of 7.5, ammonia and nitrite =0 and nitrate of 5. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26409	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Disease question

From the symptoms you describe, I do not have anything that comes to mind. I do, however, wish to comment on your population. You have a potential war zone on your hands with this tank. All the gouramis you list are very territorial fish, and you should see more signs of aggression as they grow. You have 9 gouramis of the same species, _Trichogaster trichopterus_, with the 3 spot being the original. The opaline and gold gouramis are color varieties developed by man. I am not sure what you mean by the giant, but if it is _Osphronemus goramy_, the 90 gallon is too small for just one of them, never mind 3. They will grow to 27.5" SL. If you mean _Colisa fasciata_, then you are in much better shape, since they will only get to about 5" SL. I have only done some territorial experiments with the paradise fish (sometimes, and more often lately, called the paradise gourami, though it is not a gourami) which is another anabantid fish known for aggression. They grow to about 2.6" SL. They seem to need about a 12-18" radius territory to keep the aggression down between males. Even so, should two males meet near the edge of their territories, there will be at least a show of aggression with fins and gills flaring, etc. To help minimize any aggression that may be forthcoming, you will need to aquascape your tank so that all the fish have an area they can call their own, even though it may not be as large as they think they should have. This will not alleviate tiffs between fish, particularly males, but it should help to minimize the aggression. Remember, my experiment was with fish that only grew to just over 2.5" SL, and the _Trichogaster trichopterus_ you have will reach nearly 6" SL, so they would normally need a much larger territory than 12-18". Aggression will lead, at least, to stress in the tank, if not out and out physical injury. Stress is a known factor in lowering the natural immunity of fish to pathogens they may have contact with, which then leads to disease. I had a pair of dwarf gouramis (_Colisa lalia_) in a well planted, aquascaped 55. Not the timid fish you read about in the literature. Most of the time they spent in their little area in the plants. However, when they came out, they ruled that tank. Even much larger fish would avoid them while they were out for their constitutional. I never did see them attack any other of the fish, but from the behavior, they certain taught more than one a lesson that they heeded while they were in that tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Disease question I have a 90 g tank. It is somewhat overstockeds based on mature size. All of the fish are currently 2.5 to 3 in or less. Most are 2 in or less. It contains (Gourami) 3-3 spots, 3 gold, 3 Opaline, 3 Giant (Banded), 2 Pearls, 2-Powder Blue (Dwarf), 1-Flame (Dwarf), and 3-Giant Brochis Catfish. I do 25% PWC weekly. On 3/8/2008 the Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=10-15 ppm. On 3/4/2008 KH=5, GH=6, Oxygen=7-8 mg/l, and Phosphate=0.25 ppm. The tank has been established since early Nov. 2007. The tank does not contain any live plants. It has a Fluval 405 canister and a 25 Watt UV Sterilizerand air stone. All fish look good, are eating well and are active. The diet consist of Flake food, freeze dried blood worms, freeze dried tubifex and Sinking Wafers (Hikari) (on a rotating basis). Within the last week I have lost 2 Dwarf gourmis. Both were eating well and active until just before their death. They developed over a period of a few days a slight bulge over the anal fin at about the mid point. Directly below this bulge the fin roted away leaving only the spines. The area affected was only about 1/4 in. of the anal fin. Up until close to the end the fish continued to eat well and remained active. The last day the fish quit eating and remained hidden to its self most of the time. They would come out at feeding time, but usually would not feed. The two fish did not experience this at the same time. First one, then the other. My question is will this likely affect the other fish and what do you think it is? Is it common in Dwarf gourmis? What kind of treatment should I have done? Should I do anything to the rest of the fish? I did purchase these two fish at the same time from the same supplier. I do have a quaratine tank with a pH of 7.5, ammonia and nitrite =0 and nitrate of 5. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26410	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Disease question

Thanks Steve for your comments and critique. The Giant Gourami that I am referring to are Colisa fasciata. I agree that the two Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia) that I lost could take care of themselves. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2008 11:13:41 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Disease question From the symptoms you describe, I do not have anything that comes to mind. I do, however, wish to comment on your population. You have a potential war zone on your hands with this tank. All the gouramis you list are very territorial fish, and you should see more signs of aggression as they grow. You have 9 gouramis of the same species, _Trichogaster trichopterus_ , with the 3 spot being the original. The opaline and gold gouramis are color varieties developed by man. I am not sure what you mean by the giant, but if it is _Osphronemus goramy_, the 90 gallon is too small for just one of them, never mind 3. They will grow to 27.5" SL. If you mean _Colisa fasciata_, then you are in much better shape, since they will only get to about 5" SL. I have only done some territorial experiments with the paradise fish (sometimes, and more often lately, called the paradise gourami, though it is not a gourami) which is another anabantid fish known for aggression. They grow to about 2.6" SL. They seem to need about a 12-18" radius territory to keep the aggression down between males. Even so, should two males meet near the edge of their territories, there will be at least a show of aggression with fins and gills flaring, etc. To help minimize any aggression that may be forthcoming, you will need to aquascape your tank so that all the fish have an area they can call their own, even though it may not be as large as they think they should have. This will not alleviate tiffs between fish, particularly males, but it should help to minimize the aggression. Remember, my experiment was with fish that only grew to just over 2.5" SL, and the _Trichogaster trichopterus_ you have will reach nearly 6" SL, so they would normally need a much larger territory than 12-18". Aggression will lead, at least, to stress in the tank, if not out and out physical injury. Stress is a known factor in lowering the natural immunity of fish to pathogens they may have contact with, which then leads to disease. I had a pair of dwarf gouramis (_Colisa lalia_) in a well planted, aquascaped 55. Not the timid fish you read about in the literature. Most of the time they spent in their little area in the plants. However, when they came out, they ruled that tank. Even much larger fish would avoid them while they were out for their constitutional. I never did see them attack any other of the fish, but from the behavior, they certain taught more than one a lesson that they heeded while they were in that tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Disease question I have a 90 g tank. It is somewhat overstockeds based on mature size. All of the fish are currently 2.5 to 3 in or less. Most are 2 in or less. It contains (Gourami) 3-3 spots, 3 gold, 3 Opaline, 3 Giant (Banded), 2 Pearls, 2-Powder Blue (Dwarf), 1-Flame (Dwarf), and 3-Giant Brochis Catfish. I do 25% PWC weekly. On 3/8/2008 the Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=10-15 ppm. On 3/4/2008 KH=5, GH=6, Oxygen=7-8 mg/l, and Phosphate=0. 25 ppm. The tank has been established since early Nov. 2007. The tank does not contain any live plants. It has a Fluval 405 canister and a 25 Watt UV Sterilizerand air stone. All fish look good, are eating well and are active. The diet consist of Flake food, freeze dried blood worms, freeze dried tubifex and Sinking Wafers (Hikari) (on a rotating basis). Within the last week I have lost 2 Dwarf gourmis. Both were eating well and active until just before their death. They developed over a period of a few days a slight bulge over the anal fin at about the mid point. Directly below this bulge the fin roted away leaving only the spines. The area affected was only about 1/4 in. of the anal fin. Up until close to the end the fish continued to eat well and remained active. The last day the fish quit eating and remained hidden to its self most of the time. They would come out at feeding time, but usually would not feed. The two fish did not experience this at the same time. First one, then the other.. My question is will this likely affect the other fish and what do you think it is? Is it common in Dwarf gourmis? What kind of treatment should I have done? Should I do anything to the rest of the fish? I did purchase these two fish at the same time from the same supplier. I do have a quaratine tank with a pH of 7.5, ammonia and nitrite =0 and nitrate of 5. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26411	From: armstrongm44	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Seahorses

Thank you for your replies I was really pleased with my seahorses when I got them, they are feeding really well on frozen mysis, I don't have much in the tank for them just some soft sea fan coral, a few smooth pebbles to help catch food a little. I think they enjoy open space to move around in. I have been taking lots of pictures of them so will add some soon. the male is starting to get his colours but the female has not as of yet.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Sissy Sathre" <ssathre@...> wrote: > > I keep seahorses and have raised H.Kuda fry. Some of my breeding stock is going on 3.5 years old. I am not raising any fry at the time,do to the lack of time. ( it takes allot of hours tending to fry's needs) I recommend that you do not buy male and female unless your prepared for the long and tedious process of raising the fry. Female horses have less problems than males, because of them having the pouch, sometimes males develops gas bubbles and other things. > As to feeding I just put the frozen cube of mysid shrimp in the tank, and they attack it until its all gone. Some people use a shell and train them to eat from it, and do use a blaster to get the food to the shell,like Marsha is talking about. I have live mysid shrimp at all times ,so if I have a new horse that is being picky, i gut load them and feed live with frozen until they feed hardily on frozen. > I love seahorses, tank raised horses are much hardier than wild caught. They are very interactive with their owners,doing the "I'm hunger dance". I sometimes am just mystified by the breeding dance, it's like poetry in motion. > > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysissy.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: marsha wilburn > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 3:08 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Seahorses > > > I have kept seahoses in the past and was highly disappointed with them. The horses never moved from their fan, and had to be hand fed each day from a turkey baster. The pair lived about a year before my hermit crabs ate them one day. Seahorses have no natural defense besides blending in to their surroundings, so it is recommended not to put them in anything but a species tank. > Make sure to keep up on your water perameters, their hardiness is not that great. > Good luck, and I hope you enjoy them. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: armstrongm44 <armstrongm44@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 7, 2008 3:47:15 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Seahorses > > I am getting 2 seahorses tomorrow, I just cant wait my tank has been > set up for them for 2 months now. I did a lot of looking on the > Internet about keeping them and bombarded 2 aquarium owners that I go > to with lots of questions, and made sure I was getting all the right > things for them and that my tank was set up correctly for them.... > > I wondered if there was any one with in this group has any experience > 1st hand with seahorses and what it has been like for them to keep sea > horses. as I hope to have them for as long as I can, as I have loved > seahorses since I was a little girl. > > __________________________________________________________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php? category=shopping > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26412	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Question on white poo subject.

Ive been reading the post on this and went to a website offered also. I feed my fish in all the tanks dried blood worms and baby shrimp and flakes. One of my sons guppies poop is white and brownish red striped and one of my platys in a seperate tank poops white. Could this be from the food or does this definitely mean a worm or bacteria problem and how would I know for sure? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26413	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Seahorses

Sissy What is your source for live mysid shrimp? I'd like to culture another live food--preferably a larger (yet small LOL) shrimp. I thought FL Aquafarms used to have them, but I didn't see them available on their site...any leads here? Are you culturing them or just purchasing them? Any info GREATLY appreciated! Amanda

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26414	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Disease question

Hi Jimmy, I think we already went over this but since your tank is overstocked, you can help with some of the stress issues caused by elevated hormone levels by doing more frequent PWC's to dilute the levels. In the past, we kind of used the nitrate level as a barometer of when the water quality was getting bad but now we are learning more and more about how hormone levels that also affect fish stress which then affects fish health so if you can do more frequent PWC's to keep the hormone levels lower, that might help... but nothing beats an adequate sized tank. Remember that although your tank is BIG, you have a lot of fish that are supposed to get BIG and territorial also and they are releasing hormones into the water based on these facts so all of the other fish sense how overcrowded they are. I recently used an analogy about being locked in a room with Hannibal Lector... and although he might not eat your face off, just knowing he's in the room is going to make you antsy and nervous and you'll likely not sleep very well. ;-) I think this is what fish feel when in a tank with a predatory fish or in overstocked tanks with or without aggressive fish. Some fish have stronger immune systems than other fish so the fish with the weaker immune system will falter and succumb to disease quicker than a stronger fish. There are normal bacteria and pathogens in all fish tanks, just like in the air we breathe, but most fish can resist any problems unless something happens to their immune system. Did these injuries look more like they were external injuries that got infected? Could it have been nipping at the anal fins which then led to infection? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Disease question Thanks Steve for your comments and critique. The Giant Gourami that I am referring to are Colisa fasciata. I agree that the two Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia) that I lost could take care of themselves. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2008 11:13:41 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Disease question From the symptoms you describe, I do not have anything that comes to mind. I do, however, wish to comment on your population. You have a potential war zone on your hands with this tank. All the gouramis you list are very territorial fish, and you should see more signs of aggression as they grow. You have 9 gouramis of the same species, _Trichogaster trichopterus_ , with the 3 spot being the original. The opaline and gold gouramis are color varieties developed by man. I am not sure what you mean by the giant, but if it is _Osphronemus goramy_, the 90 gallon is too small for just one of them, never mind 3. They will grow to 27.5" SL. If you mean _Colisa fasciata_, then you are in much better shape, since they will only get to about 5" SL. I have only done some territorial experiments with the paradise fish (sometimes, and more often lately, called the paradise gourami, though it is not a gourami) which is another anabantid fish known for aggression. They grow to about 2.6" SL. They seem to need about a 12-18" radius territory to keep the aggression down between males. Even so, should two males meet near the edge of their territories, there will be at least a show of aggression with fins and gills flaring, etc. To help minimize any aggression that may be forthcoming, you will need to aquascape your tank so that all the fish have an area they can call their own, even though it may not be as large as they think they should have. This will not alleviate tiffs between fish, particularly males, but it should help to minimize the aggression. Remember, my experiment was with fish that only grew to just over 2.5" SL, and the _Trichogaster trichopterus_ you have will reach nearly 6" SL, so they would normally need a much larger territory than 12-18". Aggression will lead, at least, to stress in the tank, if not out and out physical injury. Stress is a known factor in lowering the natural immunity of fish to pathogens they may have contact with, which then leads to disease. I had a pair of dwarf gouramis (_Colisa lalia_) in a well planted, aquascaped 55. Not the timid fish you read about in the literature. Most of the time they spent in their little area in the plants. However, when they came out, they ruled that tank. Even much larger fish would avoid them while they were out for their constitutional. I never did see them attack any other of the fish, but from the behavior, they certain taught more than one a lesson that they heeded while they were in that tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Disease question I have a 90 g tank. It is somewhat overstockeds based on mature size. All of the fish are currently 2.5 to 3 in or less. Most are 2 in or less. It contains (Gourami) 3-3 spots, 3 gold, 3 Opaline, 3 Giant (Banded), 2 Pearls, 2-Powder Blue (Dwarf), 1-Flame (Dwarf), and 3-Giant Brochis Catfish. I do 25% PWC weekly. On 3/8/2008 the Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=10-15 ppm. On 3/4/2008 KH=5, GH=6, Oxygen=7-8 mg/l, and Phosphate=0. 25 ppm. The tank has been established since early Nov. 2007. The tank does not contain any live plants. It has a Fluval 405 canister and a 25 Watt UV Sterilizerand air stone. All fish look good, are eating well and are active. The diet consist of Flake food, freeze dried blood worms, freeze dried tubifex and Sinking Wafers (Hikari) (on a rotating basis). Within the last week I have lost 2 Dwarf gourmis. Both were eating well and active until just before their death. They developed over a period of a few days a slight bulge over the anal fin at about the mid point. Directly below this bulge the fin roted away leaving only the spines. The area affected was only about 1/4 in. of the anal fin. Up until close to the end the fish continued to eat well and remained active. The last day the fish quit eating and remained hidden to its self most of the time. They would come out at feeding time, but usually would not feed. The two fish did not experience this at the same time. First one, then the other.. My question is will this likely affect the other fish and what do you think it is? Is it common in Dwarf gourmis? What kind of treatment should I have done? Should I do anything to the rest of the fish? I did purchase these two fish at the same time from the same supplier. I do have a quaratine tank with a pH of 7.5, ammonia and nitrite =0 and nitrate of 5. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1319 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 10:14 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26415	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Question on white poo subject.

This is one thing that makes goldfish simple... whatever goes in is the color of what comes out. LOL If they eat green peas, they poop green, etc., etc. This is because they do not have much of a stomach. Some tropical fish like Bettas, Gouramis and other fish that have their internal organs compressed into a small section of their body also pass food a lot quicker so it doesn't get processed as much. If all the fish are eating the same thing and the other fish have "normal" poops and only one fish is having the long stringy white poop. then that fish is not feeling well. It doesn't mean it's a major issue. Kind of like if we eat something that doesn't agree with us, it might make things less than solid (I know.. gross! LOL), but it doesn't mean we are sick. It could just be that these fish have more sensitive digestive systems but it is something you should keep an eye on. If you have a Q-tank, you could isolate the fish and feed them different diets to see what the outcome is with each. If they have long white stringy poop with everything they are eating, then they likely have a digestive system pathogen, either bacterial or parasitic. Now the other thing I've seen in goldfish but I think it happens in other fish is where a female fish can pass un-laid eggs through their poop and that will resemble the long stringy poop but usually has air pockets between the eggs. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 3:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question on white poo subject. Ive been reading the post on this and went to a website offered also. I feed my fish in all the tanks dried blood worms and baby shrimp and flakes. One of my sons guppies poop is white and brownish red striped and one of my platys in a seperate tank poops white. Could this be from the food or does this definitely mean a worm or bacteria problem and how would I know for sure? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1319 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 10:14 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26416	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Disease question

Thanks Lenny. I'm doing 25 to 30% PWC weekly. Do you think I should be doing more? All of the fish in the tank get along well, each going about doing its own thing with very little interaction among each other. The more shy fish seem to stay more secluded and the more extroverted ones act accordingly. I was going by the old (killing) rule of 1 in per gal of water. I now know better, but it is to late. I will just do the best I can with what I've got. I am afraid that things will get worse as the fish get larger. The injuries did not seem to be external. The bulge within started first, then the anal fin notch started and increased slowly in size. A few days after one fish died the second one showed the first signs of the disease. It started the same way with a bulge above (mid-body) the anal fin in the same area. I don't think it was started by a nip. I think it started internally and then spread into the anal fin. It seems odd that it occurred twice to the same species of fish in the same area of its body. The fish acted normal until the disease was very advanced. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2008 4:57:50 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Disease question Hi Jimmy, I think we already went over this but since your tank is overstocked, you can help with some of the stress issues caused by elevated hormone levels by doing more frequent PWC's to dilute the levels. In the past, we kind of used the nitrate level as a barometer of when the water quality was getting bad but now we are learning more and more about how hormone levels that also affect fish stress which then affects fish health so if you can do more frequent PWC's to keep the hormone levels lower, that might help... but nothing beats an adequate sized tank. Remember that although your tank is BIG, you have a lot of fish that are supposed to get BIG and territorial also and they are releasing hormones into the water based on these facts so all of the other fish sense how overcrowded they are. I recently used an analogy about being locked in a room with Hannibal Lector... and although he might not eat your face off, just knowing he's in the room is going to make you antsy and nervous and you'll likely not sleep very well. ;-) I think this is what fish feel when in a tank with a predatory fish or in overstocked tanks with or without aggressive fish. Some fish have stronger immune systems than other fish so the fish with the weaker immune system will falter and succumb to disease quicker than a stronger fish. There are normal bacteria and pathogens in all fish tanks, just like in the air we breathe, but most fish can resist any problems unless something happens to their immune system. Did these injuries look more like they were external injuries that got infected? Could it have been nipping at the anal fins which then led to infection? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Disease question Thanks Steve for your comments and critique. The Giant Gourami that I am referring to are Colisa fasciata. I agree that the two Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia) that I lost could take care of themselves. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2008 11:13:41 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Disease question From the symptoms you describe, I do not have anything that comes to mind. I do, however, wish to comment on your population. You have a potential war zone on your hands with this tank. All the gouramis you list are very territorial fish, and you should see more signs of aggression as they grow. You have 9 gouramis of the same species, _Trichogaster trichopterus_ , with the 3 spot being the original. The opaline and gold gouramis are color varieties developed by man. I am not sure what you mean by the giant, but if it is _Osphronemus goramy_, the 90 gallon is too small for just one of them, never mind 3. They will grow to 27.5" SL. If you mean _Colisa fasciata_, then you are in much better shape, since they will only get to about 5" SL. I have only done some territorial experiments with the paradise fish (sometimes, and more often lately, called the paradise gourami, though it is not a gourami) which is another anabantid fish known for aggression. They grow to about 2.6" SL.. They seem to need about a 12-18" radius territory to keep the aggression down between males. Even so, should two males meet near the edge of their territories, there will be at least a show of aggression with fins and gills flaring, etc. To help minimize any aggression that may be forthcoming, you will need to aquascape your tank so that all the fish have an area they can call their own, even though it may not be as large as they think they should have. This will not alleviate tiffs between fish, particularly males, but it should help to minimize the aggression. Remember, my experiment was with fish that only grew to just over 2.5" SL, and the _Trichogaster trichopterus_ you have will reach nearly 6" SL, so they would normally need a much larger territory than 12-18". Aggression will lead, at least, to stress in the tank, if not out and out physical injury. Stress is a known factor in lowering the natural immunity of fish to pathogens they may have contact with, which then leads to disease. I had a pair of dwarf gouramis (_Colisa lalia_) in a well planted, aquascaped 55. Not the timid fish you read about in the literature. Most of the time they spent in their little area in the plants. However, when they came out, they ruled that tank. Even much larger fish would avoid them while they were out for their constitutional. I never did see them attack any other of the fish, but from the behavior, they certain taught more than one a lesson that they heeded while they were in that tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Disease question I have a 90 g tank. It is somewhat overstockeds based on mature size. All of the fish are currently 2.5 to 3 in or less. Most are 2 in or less. It contains (Gourami) 3-3 spots, 3 gold, 3 Opaline, 3 Giant (Banded), 2 Pearls, 2-Powder Blue (Dwarf), 1-Flame (Dwarf), and 3-Giant Brochis Catfish. I do 25% PWC weekly. On 3/8/2008 the Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=10-15 ppm. On 3/4/2008 KH=5, GH=6, Oxygen=7-8 mg/l, and Phosphate=0. 25 ppm. The tank has been established since early Nov. 2007. The tank does not contain any live plants.. It has a Fluval 405 canister and a 25 Watt UV Sterilizerand air stone. All fish look good, are eating well and are active. The diet consist of Flake food, freeze dried blood worms, freeze dried tubifex and Sinking Wafers (Hikari) (on a rotating basis). Within the last week I have lost 2 Dwarf gourmis. Both were eating well and active until just before their death. They developed over a period of a few days a slight bulge over the anal fin at about the mid point. Directly below this bulge the fin roted away leaving only the spines. The area affected was only about 1/4 in. of the anal fin. Up until close to the end the fish continued to eat well and remained active. The last day the fish quit eating and remained hidden to its self most of the time. They would come out at feeding time, but usually would not feed. The two fish did not experience this at the same time. First one, then the other.. My question is will this likely affect the other fish and what do you think it is? Is it common in Dwarf gourmis? What kind of treatment should I have done? Should I do anything to the rest of the fish? I did purchase these two fish at the same time from the same supplier. I do have a quaratine tank with a pH of 7.5, ammonia and nitrite =0 and nitrate of 5. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7..5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1319 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 10:14 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26417	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Disease question

Remember that as the fish double in length, they are increasing their body mass by 6-8 times, so a 6" gourami is equal to at least 15-20 2" gouramis in body mass, ammonia excretion, food requirements, poop excretion, hormone excretion, etc. If it's taking weekly PWC's to keep water quality in check today, it could take daily or twice daily PWC's to keep things in check once all of the fish reach full size... IF that could actually happen. Unfortunately, I think Darwinism will continue to take affect and you will end up with a "normally" stocked 90G tank in the next year or so. If it was me, I'd decide today which fish I want to keep and then rehome the others so that you decide which fish you want, rather than leaving it up Darwin... plus it's not fair to the fish that lose the Darwin battle. It's not too late! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Disease question Thanks Lenny. I'm doing 25 to 30% PWC weekly. Do you think I should be doing more? All of the fish in the tank get along well, each going about doing its own thing with very little interaction among each other. The more shy fish seem to stay more secluded and the more extroverted ones act accordingly. I was going by the old (killing) rule of 1 in per gal of water. I now know better, but it is to late. I will just do the best I can with what I've got. I am afraid that things will get worse as the fish get larger. The injuries did not seem to be external. The bulge within started first, then the anal fin notch started and increased slowly in size. A few days after one fish died the second one showed the first signs of the disease. It started the same way with a bulge above (mid-body) the anal fin in the same area. I don't think it was started by a nip. I think it started internally and then spread into the anal fin. It seems odd that it occurred twice to the same species of fish in the same area of its body. The fish acted normal until the disease was very advanced. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2008 4:57:50 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Disease question Hi Jimmy, I think we already went over this but since your tank is overstocked, you can help with some of the stress issues caused by elevated hormone levels by doing more frequent PWC's to dilute the levels. In the past, we kind of used the nitrate level as a barometer of when the water quality was getting bad but now we are learning more and more about how hormone levels that also affect fish stress which then affects fish health so if you can do more frequent PWC's to keep the hormone levels lower, that might help... but nothing beats an adequate sized tank. Remember that although your tank is BIG, you have a lot of fish that are supposed to get BIG and territorial also and they are releasing hormones into the water based on these facts so all of the other fish sense how overcrowded they are. I recently used an analogy about being locked in a room with Hannibal Lector... and although he might not eat your face off, just knowing he's in the room is going to make you antsy and nervous and you'll likely not sleep very well. ;-) I think this is what fish feel when in a tank with a predatory fish or in overstocked tanks with or without aggressive fish. Some fish have stronger immune systems than other fish so the fish with the weaker immune system will falter and succumb to disease quicker than a stronger fish. There are normal bacteria and pathogens in all fish tanks, just like in the air we breathe, but most fish can resist any problems unless something happens to their immune system. Did these injuries look more like they were external injuries that got infected? Could it have been nipping at the anal fins which then led to infection? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Disease question Thanks Steve for your comments and critique. The Giant Gourami that I am referring to are Colisa fasciata. I agree that the two Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia) that I lost could take care of themselves. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2008 11:13:41 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Disease question From the symptoms you describe, I do not have anything that comes to mind. I do, however, wish to comment on your population. You have a potential war zone on your hands with this tank. All the gouramis you list are very territorial fish, and you should see more signs of aggression as they grow. You have 9 gouramis of the same species, _Trichogaster trichopterus_ , with the 3 spot being the original. The opaline and gold gouramis are color varieties developed by man. I am not sure what you mean by the giant, but if it is _Osphronemus goramy_, the 90 gallon is too small for just one of them, never mind 3. They will grow to 27.5" SL. If you mean _Colisa fasciata_, then you are in much better shape, since they will only get to about 5" SL. I have only done some territorial experiments with the paradise fish (sometimes, and more often lately, called the paradise gourami, though it is not a gourami) which is another anabantid fish known for aggression. They grow to about 2.6" SL.. They seem to need about a 12-18" radius territory to keep the aggression down between males. Even so, should two males meet near the edge of their territories, there will be at least a show of aggression with fins and gills flaring, etc. To help minimize any aggression that may be forthcoming, you will need to aquascape your tank so that all the fish have an area they can call their own, even though it may not be as large as they think they should have. This will not alleviate tiffs between fish, particularly males, but it should help to minimize the aggression. Remember, my experiment was with fish that only grew to just over 2.5" SL, and the _Trichogaster trichopterus_ you have will reach nearly 6" SL, so they would normally need a much larger territory than 12-18". Aggression will lead, at least, to stress in the tank, if not out and out physical injury. Stress is a known factor in lowering the natural immunity of fish to pathogens they may have contact with, which then leads to disease. I had a pair of dwarf gouramis (_Colisa lalia_) in a well planted, aquascaped 55. Not the timid fish you read about in the literature. Most of the time they spent in their little area in the plants. However, when they came out, they ruled that tank. Even much larger fish would avoid them while they were out for their constitutional. I never did see them attack any other of the fish, but from the behavior, they certain taught more than one a lesson that they heeded while they were in that tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Disease question I have a 90 g tank. It is somewhat overstockeds based on mature size. All of the fish are currently 2.5 to 3 in or less. Most are 2 in or less. It contains (Gourami) 3-3 spots, 3 gold, 3 Opaline, 3 Giant (Banded), 2 Pearls, 2-Powder Blue (Dwarf), 1-Flame (Dwarf), and 3-Giant Brochis Catfish. I do 25% PWC weekly. On 3/8/2008 the Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=10-15 ppm. On 3/4/2008 KH=5, GH=6, Oxygen=7-8 mg/l, and Phosphate=0. 25 ppm. The tank has been established since early Nov. 2007. The tank does not contain any live plants.. It has a Fluval 405 canister and a 25 Watt UV Sterilizerand air stone. All fish look good, are eating well and are active. The diet consist of Flake food, freeze dried blood worms, freeze dried tubifex and Sinking Wafers (Hikari) (on a rotating basis). Within the last week I have lost 2 Dwarf gourmis. Both were eating well and active until just before their death. They developed over a period of a few days a slight bulge over the anal fin at about the mid point. Directly below this bulge the fin roted away leaving only the spines. The area affected was only about 1/4 in. of the anal fin. Up until close to the end the fish continued to eat well and remained active. The last day the fish quit eating and remained hidden to its self most of the time. They would come out at feeding time, but usually would not feed. The two fish did not experience this at the same time. First one, then the other.. My question is will this likely affect the other fish and what do you think it is? Is it common in Dwarf gourmis? What kind of treatment should I have done? Should I do anything to the rest of the fish? I did purchase these two fish at the same time from the same supplier. I do have a quaratine tank with a pH of 7.5, ammonia and nitrite =0 and nitrate of 5. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1319 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 10:14 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26418	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Question on white poo subject.

I will put them in the sick tank and keep an eye on them. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question on white poo subject. This is one thing that makes goldfish simple... whatever goes in is the color of what comes out. LOL If they eat green peas, they poop green, etc., etc. This is because they do not have much of a stomach. Some tropical fish like Bettas, Gouramis and other fish that have their internal organs compressed into a small section of their body also pass food a lot quicker so it doesn't get processed as much. If all the fish are eating the same thing and the other fish have "normal" poops and only one fish is having the long stringy white poop. then that fish is not feeling well. It doesn't mean it's a major issue. Kind of like if we eat something that doesn't agree with us, it might make things less than solid (I know.. gross! LOL), but it doesn't mean we are sick. It could just be that these fish have more sensitive digestive systems but it is something you should keep an eye on. If you have a Q-tank, you could isolate the fish and feed them different diets to see what the outcome is with each. If they have long white stringy poop with everything they are eating, then they likely have a digestive system pathogen, either bacterial or parasitic. Now the other thing I've seen in goldfish but I think it happens in other fish is where a female fish can pass un-laid eggs through their poop and that will resemble the long stringy poop but usually has air pockets between the eggs. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 3:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question on white poo subject. Ive been reading the post on this and went to a website offered also. I feed my fish in all the tanks dried blood worms and baby shrimp and flakes. One of my sons guppies poop is white and brownish red striped and one of my platys in a seperate tank poops white. Could this be from the food or does this definitely mean a worm or bacteria problem and how would I know for sure? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1319 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 10:14 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26419	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: Disease question

Excellent point made Lenny. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2008 5:39:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Disease question Remember that as the fish double in length, they are increasing their body mass by 6-8 times, so a 6" gourami is equal to at least 15-20 2" gouramis in body mass, ammonia excretion, food requirements, poop excretion, hormone excretion, etc. If it's taking weekly PWC's to keep water quality in check today, it could take daily or twice daily PWC's to keep things in check once all of the fish reach full size... IF that could actually happen. Unfortunately, I think Darwinism will continue to take affect and you will end up with a "normally" stocked 90G tank in the next year or so. If it was me, I'd decide today which fish I want to keep and then rehome the others so that you decide which fish you want, rather than leaving it up Darwin... plus it's not fair to the fish that lose the Darwin battle. It's not too late! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Disease question Thanks Lenny. I'm doing 25 to 30% PWC weekly. Do you think I should be doing more? All of the fish in the tank get along well, each going about doing its own thing with very little interaction among each other. The more shy fish seem to stay more secluded and the more extroverted ones act accordingly. I was going by the old (killing) rule of 1 in per gal of water. I now know better, but it is to late. I will just do the best I can with what I've got. I am afraid that things will get worse as the fish get larger. The injuries did not seem to be external. The bulge within started first, then the anal fin notch started and increased slowly in size. A few days after one fish died the second one showed the first signs of the disease. It started the same way with a bulge above (mid-body) the anal fin in the same area. I don't think it was started by a nip. I think it started internally and then spread into the anal fin. It seems odd that it occurred twice to the same species of fish in the same area of its body. The fish acted normal until the disease was very advanced. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2008 4:57:50 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Disease question Hi Jimmy, I think we already went over this but since your tank is overstocked, you can help with some of the stress issues caused by elevated hormone levels by doing more frequent PWC's to dilute the levels. In the past, we kind of used the nitrate level as a barometer of when the water quality was getting bad but now we are learning more and more about how hormone levels that also affect fish stress which then affects fish health so if you can do more frequent PWC's to keep the hormone levels lower, that might help... but nothing beats an adequate sized tank. Remember that although your tank is BIG, you have a lot of fish that are supposed to get BIG and territorial also and they are releasing hormones into the water based on these facts so all of the other fish sense how overcrowded they are. I recently used an analogy about being locked in a room with Hannibal Lector... and although he might not eat your face off, just knowing he's in the room is going to make you antsy and nervous and you'll likely not sleep very well. ;-) I think this is what fish feel when in a tank with a predatory fish or in overstocked tanks with or without aggressive fish. Some fish have stronger immune systems than other fish so the fish with the weaker immune system will falter and succumb to disease quicker than a stronger fish. There are normal bacteria and pathogens in all fish tanks, just like in the air we breathe, but most fish can resist any problems unless something happens to their immune system. Did these injuries look more like they were external injuries that got infected? Could it have been nipping at the anal fins which then led to infection? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Disease question Thanks Steve for your comments and critique. The Giant Gourami that I am referring to are Colisa fasciata. I agree that the two Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia) that I lost could take care of themselves. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2008 11:13:41 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Disease question From the symptoms you describe, I do not have anything that comes to mind. I do, however, wish to comment on your population. You have a potential war zone on your hands with this tank. All the gouramis you list are very territorial fish, and you should see more signs of aggression as they grow. You have 9 gouramis of the same species, _Trichogaster trichopterus_ , with the 3 spot being the original. The opaline and gold gouramis are color varieties developed by man. I am not sure what you mean by the giant, but if it is _Osphronemus goramy_, the 90 gallon is too small for just one of them, never mind 3. They will grow to 27.5" SL. If you mean _Colisa fasciata_, then you are in much better shape, since they will only get to about 5" SL. I have only done some territorial experiments with the paradise fish (sometimes, and more often lately, called the paradise gourami, though it is not a gourami) which is another anabantid fish known for aggression. They grow to about 2.6" SL.. They seem to need about a 12-18" radius territory to keep the aggression down between males. Even so, should two males meet near the edge of their territories, there will be at least a show of aggression with fins and gills flaring, etc. To help minimize any aggression that may be forthcoming, you will need to aquascape your tank so that all the fish have an area they can call their own, even though it may not be as large as they think they should have. This will not alleviate tiffs between fish, particularly males, but it should help to minimize the aggression. Remember, my experiment was with fish that only grew to just over 2.5" SL, and the _Trichogaster trichopterus_ you have will reach nearly 6" SL, so they would normally need a much larger territory than 12-18". Aggression will lead, at least, to stress in the tank, if not out and out physical injury. Stress is a known factor in lowering the natural immunity of fish to pathogens they may have contact with, which then leads to disease. I had a pair of dwarf gouramis (_Colisa lalia_) in a well planted, aquascaped 55. Not the timid fish you read about in the literature. Most of the time they spent in their little area in the plants. However, when they came out, they ruled that tank. Even much larger fish would avoid them while they were out for their constitutional. I never did see them attack any other of the fish, but from the behavior, they certain taught more than one a lesson that they heeded while they were in that tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Disease question I have a 90 g tank. It is somewhat overstockeds based on mature size. All of the fish are currently 2.5 to 3 in or less. Most are 2 in or less. It contains (Gourami) 3-3 spots, 3 gold, 3 Opaline, 3 Giant (Banded), 2 Pearls, 2-Powder Blue (Dwarf), 1-Flame (Dwarf), and 3-Giant Brochis Catfish. I do 25% PWC weekly. On 3/8/2008 the Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=10-15 ppm. On 3/4/2008 KH=5, GH=6, Oxygen=7-8 mg/l, and Phosphate=0. 25 ppm. The tank has been established since early Nov. 2007. The tank does not contain any live plants.. It has a Fluval 405 canister and a 25 Watt UV Sterilizerand air stone. All fish look good, are eating well and are active. The diet consist of Flake food, freeze dried blood worms, freeze dried tubifex and Sinking Wafers (Hikari) (on a rotating basis). Within the last week I have lost 2 Dwarf gourmis.. Both were eating well and active until just before their death. They developed over a period of a few days a slight bulge over the anal fin at about the mid point. Directly below this bulge the fin roted away leaving only the spines. The area affected was only about 1/4 in. of the anal fin.. Up until close to the end the fish continued to eat well and remained active. The last day the fish quit eating and remained hidden to its self most of the time. They would come out at feeding time, but usually would not feed. The two fish did not experience this at the same time. First one, then the other.. My question is will this likely affect the other fish and what do you think it is? Is it common in Dwarf gourmis? What kind of treatment should I have done? Should I do anything to the rest of the fish? I did purchase these two fish at the same time from the same supplier. I do have a quaratine tank with a pH of 7.5, ammonia and nitrite =0 and nitrate of 5. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1319 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 10:14 AM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26420	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: My crazy Golden "Chinese" Algae Eater

So oddly enough now that all of my fish have been seperated into different tanks and have MUCH more room my CAE is now starting to go after the Tinfoils which are at the very least 5x his size. All of my fish LOVE the algae wafers and the CAE protects his like hes never eaten before. He never actually latches on the tinfoils but he sure chases them away from his food or the area he is cleaning. Its odd to me that he does this all the sudden now that he is in a much larger tank. *scratches head--shrugs* Fish can be so odd and so amusing. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26421	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: My crazy Golden "Chinese" Algae Eater

What may be happening is the establishment of new territories or limits. In the old tank, he may have accepted a limited territory or may have even been subservient if he was added last but now that things have been changed around, he is asserting himself and establishing limits on the other fish. It's kind of like how when introducing a new fish into a tank with territorial fish, you would first move everything around... plants, decorations, etc., so the existing fish lose their established territories and then ALL of the fish, including the new ones, have to start over, but at least the new fish has a so-called fighting chance at establishing his own territory. When you moved all of the fish around, it could be the start of a new pecking order and the CAE decided he doesn't want to be at the bottom of the totem pole any longer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] My crazy Golden "Chinese" Algae Eater So oddly enough now that all of my fish have been seperated into different tanks and have MUCH more room my CAE is now starting to go after the Tinfoils which are at the very least 5x his size. All of my fish LOVE the algae wafers and the CAE protects his like hes never eaten before. He never actually latches on the tinfoils but he sure chases them away from his food or the area he is cleaning. Its odd to me that he does this all the sudden now that he is in a much larger tank. *scratches head--shrugs* Fish can be so odd and so amusing. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 12:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26422	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/9/2008
Subject: Re: My crazy Golden "Chinese" Algae Eater

That seems to be exactly whats going on. Its rather funny watching my two huge tinfoils run (swim very fast) away from the little worm of a CAE. The CAE is quite the character. I put him in with the tinfoils because they are the larger of all my fish and I assumed they could handle there own but now they just do their best to stay away from him/her unless they are trying to steal his algae wafers...which he in NO WAY allows. I have to put an extra one in just for them. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 1:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My crazy Golden "Chinese" Algae Eater What may be happening is the establishment of new territories or limits. In the old tank, he may have accepted a limited territory or may have even been subservient if he was added last but now that things have been changed around, he is asserting himself and establishing limits on the other fish. It's kind of like how when introducing a new fish into a tank with territorial fish, you would first move everything around... plants, decorations, etc., so the existing fish lose their established territories and then ALL of the fish, including the new ones, have to start over, but at least the new fish has a so-called fighting chance at establishing his own territory. When you moved all of the fish around, it could be the start of a new pecking order and the CAE decided he doesn't want to be at the bottom of the totem pole any longer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] My crazy Golden "Chinese" Algae Eater So oddly enough now that all of my fish have been seperated into different tanks and have MUCH more room my CAE is now starting to go after the Tinfoils which are at the very least 5x his size. All of my fish LOVE the algae wafers and the CAE protects his like hes never eaten before. He never actually latches on the tinfoils but he sure chases them away from his food or the area he is cleaning. Its odd to me that he does this all the sudden now that he is in a much larger tank. *scratches head--shrugs* Fish can be so odd and so amusing. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 12:17 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26423	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Lead weights-caution

I read that many people use lead weights to hold their vegetables or plants down.This can be a serious problem for some fish,as the lead leaches out into the water,and over time will kill the fish. http://guppyplace.tripod.com/WaterQuality.html All heavy metals caa have a detrimental affect on aquatic life,as well as humans.Check the web site as a ref.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26424	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Lead weights-caution

1. I see no references given for any of the claims made, though I do know that some of them are true from my readings. 2. There is a process that occurs, though I hesitate to give it a name, that is similar to what you see with an aluminum door or iron left out. The aluminum develops a coating from a reaction with oxygen, as does the iron. On the iron this oxidation is known as rust. If the lead strips are left in water, they will also develop a coating which protects the lead from further dissolving in water. 3. Some of the best aquarists I know are heavy smokers, to address another mention on that page you have given. Makes me wonder about the perceived problems caused by tobacco smoke. 4. Stuff like this smacks of junk science. When I hear of stuff like this, and look around, I am truly surprised that so many of my generation and those preceding it are still around. We went out and played, and actually got dirty. We rode bikes without helmets and other padding, and actually crashed and bled sometimes. Our homes were full of lead paint, inside and outside. Many of our parents smoked and/or drank alcohol. We did not have seat belts, and only the youngest of us were confined to car seats. And so on and so forth. 5. With the advent of the Internet, and even before, anybody can write anything they like. The Internet just makes it more accessible, though no less false or true. One must take a cynical look (some would say critical look) at anything they read, especially on the web, and at least try to corroborate it with other information available, hopefully using reliable sources. A lot of the science reported in the popular media actually bears little resemblance to the source scientific paper. None of the source exceptions, hemming and hawing ever appear, as they do in the source. This is often why we hear or read that this or that is bad for you only to find out a few months or years later that it is good for you, or something in a similar vein. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lead weights-caution I read that many people use lead weights to hold their vegetables or plants down.This can be a serious problem for some fish,as the lead leaches out into the water,and over time will kill the fish. http://guppyplace.tripod.com/WaterQuality.html All heavy metals caa have a detrimental affect on aquatic life,as well as humans.Check the web site as a ref. Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26425	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Lead weights-caution

So does that mean you think the plant strips are safe or no? I've been using them to hold down my hemianthus callitricoides and it often grows so thick around the strip that I can't get the strip back out but if they're bad I'll be doing some trimming today. Kate Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: 1. I see no references given for any of the claims made, though I do know that some of them are true from my readings. 2. There is a process that occurs, though I hesitate to give it a name, that is similar to what you see with an aluminum door or iron left out. The aluminum develops a coating from a reaction with oxygen, as does the iron. On the iron this oxidation is known as rust. If the lead strips are left in water, they will also develop a coating which protects the lead from further dissolving in water. 3. Some of the best aquarists I know are heavy smokers, to address another mention on that page you have given. Makes me wonder about the perceived problems caused by tobacco smoke. 4. Stuff like this smacks of junk science. When I hear of stuff like this, and look around, I am truly surprised that so many of my generation and those preceding it are still around. We went out and played, and actually got dirty. We rode bikes without helmets and other padding, and actually crashed and bled sometimes. Our homes were full of lead paint, inside and outside. Many of our parents smoked and/or drank alcohol. We did not have seat belts, and only the youngest of us were confined to car seats. And so on and so forth. 5. With the advent of the Internet, and even before, anybody can write anything they like. The Internet just makes it more accessible, though no less false or true. One must take a cynical look (some would say critical look) at anything they read, especially on the web, and at least try to corroborate it with other information available, hopefully using reliable sources. A lot of the science reported in the popular media actually bears little resemblance to the source scientific paper. None of the source exceptions, hemming and hawing ever appear, as they do in the source. This is often why we hear or read that this or that is bad for you only to find out a few months or years later that it is good for you, or something in a similar vein. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lead weights-caution I read that many people use lead weights to hold their vegetables or plants down.This can be a serious problem for some fish,as the lead leaches out into the water,and over time will kill the fish. http://guppyplace.tripod.com/WaterQuality.html All heavy metals caa have a detrimental affect on aquatic life,as well as humans.Check the web site as a ref. Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26426	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Seahorses

http://www.reed-store.com/?category=60&subcate This where I got my start, I been culturing them for 5 years from that start, they are very easy to culture. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: abarker3wvuedu To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 3:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Seahorses Sissy What is your source for live mysid shrimp? I'd like to culture another live food--preferably a larger (yet small LOL) shrimp. I thought FL Aquafarms used to have them, but I didn't see them available on their site...any leads here? Are you culturing them or just purchasing them? Any info GREATLY appreciated! Amanda ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26427	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Lead weights-caution

This is more of an issue with old plumbing and the overall water supply, where the lead used to solder the pipes has come into contact with the water supply for decades, rather than the lead weights one might use in their tanks on a temporary basis. Lead is very stable and takes decades to start leaching and only does it under certain circumstances. Our frequent PWC's and the relatively short lives of most aquarium fish will make it very unlikely for this to ever be an issue... especially since we are only using the lead weights for an hour or two or maybe overnight. In hard water or pH 7.0+ water, it is even less likely to happen. This is why many public utilities buffer up their water when it leaves the water plant so that it stays on the 7.0+ side while traveling through the supply pipes. A low pH water is acidic and will corrode the pipes over time where a high pH water with added buffers (minerals, calcium carbonate, etc.) will actually build up a coating on the inside of the pipes so that the water doesn't even come in contact with the copper pipes after a couple of years. If your tap water is on the hard side, your pipes will eventually become so clogged with mineral buildup that they will have to be changed. It happens all the time down here in New Orleans with these older homes. I've seen 1" copper pipes that are reduced down to a trickle of flow due to the buildup inside them. I've also seen showerheads and faucets that get clogged when small pieces of the buildup will break off and clog up the screens. When I show the people the "rocks" (which is what the pieces look like) in their shower heads or faucets, they are often amazed. Last but not least, most tap water conditioners (dechlor products) have a treatment for heavy metals... which reminds me... you are far more likely to put your fish in contact with heavy metals by your regular water supply than by the very unlikely possibility of leaching of a lead weight in aquariums. Now... there certainly are certain lakes and/or rivers where lead or other heavy metals were dumped years or decades ago that might be leaching into the water supply which does pose a problem... and then there is that damned Mother Nature who will sometimes have a lake or river flowing over a natural vein of heavy metals or other nasties which causes the leaching into the water supply.... not to mention the tons and tons of toxins that are pumped into the atmosphere by volcanoes each year, only to be rained down all over the earth. A single Volcano pumps far more chlorofluorocarbons into the atmosphere (causing that so-called hole in the atmosphere) than ALL of the man-made sources combined each year but I never see the extremist tree-huggers jumping into the craters to try and stop the erupting volcano... and that's just too bad! It's something they could finally be useful for! ;-) I like the hook of that article though. It starts off with an alarming sub-title "Toxins In The Water: The Invisible Culprit" but then morphs into information about Water Quality and the Nitrogen Cycle so if the alarming sub-title gets people to read it, then it's a good thing! It just fails to mention Mother Nature as the leading cause of pollution. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 2:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lead weights-caution I read that many people use lead weights to hold their vegetables or plants down.This can be a serious problem for some fish,as the lead leaches out into the water,and over time will kill the fish. http://guppyplace.tripod.com/WaterQuality.html <http://guppyplace.tripod.com/WaterQuality.html> All heavy metals caa have a detrimental affect on aquatic life,as well as humans.Check the web site as a ref. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 12:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26428	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Lead weights-caution

They will be fine considering they will only be in our tanks for a relatively short time... when looking at the big picture.. a few years compared to the decades in water supply pipes or water supplies in general. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 8:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lead weights-caution So does that mean you think the plant strips are safe or no? I've been using them to hold down my hemianthus callitricoides and it often grows so thick around the strip that I can't get the strip back out but if they're bad I'll be doing some trimming today. Kate Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: 1. I see no references given for any of the claims made, though I do know that some of them are true from my readings. 2. There is a process that occurs, though I hesitate to give it a name, that is similar to what you see with an aluminum door or iron left out. The aluminum develops a coating from a reaction with oxygen, as does the iron. On the iron this oxidation is known as rust. If the lead strips are left in water, they will also develop a coating which protects the lead from further dissolving in water. 3. Some of the best aquarists I know are heavy smokers, to address another mention on that page you have given. Makes me wonder about the perceived problems caused by tobacco smoke. 4. Stuff like this smacks of junk science. When I hear of stuff like this, and look around, I am truly surprised that so many of my generation and those preceding it are still around. We went out and played, and actually got dirty. We rode bikes without helmets and other padding, and actually crashed and bled sometimes. Our homes were full of lead paint, inside and outside. Many of our parents smoked and/or drank alcohol. We did not have seat belts, and only the youngest of us were confined to car seats. And so on and so forth. 5. With the advent of the Internet, and even before, anybody can write anything they like. The Internet just makes it more accessible, though no less false or true. One must take a cynical look (some would say critical look) at anything they read, especially on the web, and at least try to corroborate it with other information available, hopefully using reliable sources. A lot of the science reported in the popular media actually bears little resemblance to the source scientific paper. None of the source exceptions, hemming and hawing ever appear, as they do in the source. This is often why we hear or read that this or that is bad for you only to find out a few months or years later that it is good for you, or something in a similar vein. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Lead weights-caution I read that many people use lead weights to hold their vegetables or plants down.This can be a serious problem for some fish,as the lead leaches out into the water,and over time will kill the fish. http://guppyplace.tripod.com/WaterQuality.html <http://guppyplace.tripod.com/WaterQuality.html> All heavy metals caa have a detrimental affect on aquatic life,as well as humans.Check the web site as a ref. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 12:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26429	From: Debra Melton	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Angel Fish

Hello All: Does anyone raise Angels? I would like to start an Angel tank and possibly breed them. Can anyone recommend a good source to purchase them? Are they as hard to raise and breed as my readings suggest? Deb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26430	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fish

Angels are cichlids so once they mature and start pairing up, they will become territorial and aggressive. Breeding angels is best done in 18” or 24” cubes dedicated for breeding pairs and a slate for the fish to lay eggs. Breeding angels is not difficult as you need to provide softer acidic water for them to breed but raising the young is a different scenario. Nim From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Melton Sent: 10 March 2008 14:41 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Angel Fish Hello All: Does anyone raise Angels? I would like to start an Angel tank and possibly breed them. Can anyone recommend a good source to purchase them? Are they as hard to raise and breed as my readings suggest? Deb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26431	From: William J. Scott	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fish

There are several good sources on AquaBid.com where you can purchase Angels from. You can get all sizes from dime /quarter to full size breeders. They are Cichlids, so you will have to set up a tank with soft water at about 6.6 to 7.0 ph. A 20 high is a good tank size to keep & breed angels in. Planted with Amazon sword plants. Bill -------Original Message------- From: Debra Melton Date: 3/10/2008 7:37:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Angel Fish Hello All: Does anyone raise Angels? I would like to start an Angel tank and possibly breed them. Can anyone recommend a good source to purchase them? Are they as hard to raise and breed as my readings suggest? Deb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26432	From: Amy	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?

Okay seriously folks!! Now I have 2 guppies in that tank!! The same old one who is getting pretty big now and as I was feeding krill last night I discovered a baby baby guppie. What the heck is going on. it is not like the big fish aren't hungry. Them Scats eat 24\7 if I allowed it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?

If your pet chicken laid eggs, would you eat them? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 12:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: An Alliance? Perhaps? Okay seriously folks!! Now I have 2 guppies in that tank!! The same old one who is getting pretty big now and as I was feeding krill last night I discovered a baby baby guppie. What the heck is going on. it is not like the big fish aren't hungry. Them Scats eat 24\7 if I allowed it. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 12:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26434	From: Amy	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: An Alliance? Perhaps?

LMAO.....yah now watch these guppies make more guppies...hey at least I wont have to buy them from the store anymore, right. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If your pet chicken laid eggs, would you eat them? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amy > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 12:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: An Alliance? Perhaps? > > Okay seriously folks!! Now I have 2 guppies in that tank!! The same old one > who is getting pretty big now and as I was feeding krill last night I > discovered a baby baby guppie. What the heck is going on. it is not like the > big fish aren't hungry. Them Scats eat 24\7 if I allowed it. > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 > 12:17 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26435	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: silly question????????

Hi Everyone! I just got my new 54 gallon corner aquarium filled with water, substrate, filter and heater running.....I'm waiting for plants to be delivered (and I'm going to hook up a CO2 system today). Is it safe to plant the aquarium with everything on? (I mean all of the electrical items.... heater, filter) I guess I'm a little freaked out about the whole electricity and water thing! Sorry if this sounds silly to all of you pros out there....but I don't want to be electrocuted! Another thing...I bought one of those Red Sea CO2 Pro Systems that use the paint ball canisters...any idea how long they will last? I got two so I'd have a back up when the first one runs out. Thanks in advance for any advice!!!!!!!! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26436	From: kathy wells	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fish

Hi, I had an a lot of success raising angel fish, It was a lot of fun but required daily water changes to raise the fry and had to hatch the shrimp for them. But it was fun to video tape all of it daily. Good luck. Debra Melton <dmelton2@...> wrote: Hello All: Does anyone raise Angels? I would like to start an Angel tank and possibly breed them. Can anyone recommend a good source to purchase them? Are they as hard to raise and breed as my readings suggest? Deb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26437	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: silly question????????

If you are "worried" about the electricity, then you could unplug things or if you have everything on a power strip, just turn off the one switch. I don't worry about it too much as you would have to be barefoot and standing in a puddle of water or holding onto a metal grounded item before you would face any serious electrical shock. If you have rubber soled shoes on and are not standing in water and you're not holding onto something metal outside of the tank, then there's a very miniscule chance of anything ever happening. Following is an article about "Stray Electricity" that can happen in our tanks and how it affects our fish... usually the lateral line system. This article is on a SW site since salty water is more prone to stray voltage since salt water conducts electricity better. http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/996/996_5.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] silly question???????? Hi Everyone! I just got my new 54 gallon corner aquarium filled with water, substrate, filter and heater running.....I'm waiting for plants to be delivered (and I'm going to hook up a CO2 system today). Is it safe to plant the aquarium with everything on? (I mean all of the electrical items.... heater, filter) I guess I'm a little freaked out about the whole electricity and water thing! Sorry if this sounds silly to all of you pros out there....but I don't want to be electrocuted! Another thing...I bought one of those Red Sea CO2 Pro Systems that use the paint ball canisters...any idea how long they will last? I got two so I'd have a back up when the first one runs out. Thanks in advance for any advice!!!!!!!! Shari No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 12:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26438	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: reference for heavy metals in aquarium

Here is the reference page in original post.I took the time to copy it and paste it for anyone unable to click on it http://guppyplace.tripod.com/WaterQuality.html Toxins in the Water: The Invisible Culprit. Heavy Metals such as copper, iron, zinc, and lead destroy the fish's slime coat, cause blood patches, cloudy eyes, listlessness, and damage the gills, eventually leading to death. Keep all metal out of the tank. If you have problems you cannot identify you may be able to link them to contamination from old copper pipes. While copper is sometimes used to cure protozoal diseases, the concentration used for this purpose is relatively safe. When treating fish with copper make sure your water conditioner does not deactivate heavy metals or it will have no effect. Symptoms: Low-level, chronic cases: Loss of colour, or darkening or "off-colour": loss of appetite; prone to fin rot, fungus, or other infectious diseases. Loss of interest in breeding. In acute cases: Peculiar swimming, rapid gill movements, darting after a long period of inactivity, gasping, cloudy or protruding eyes. All fish in the tank would be affected. Fish will often jump out of a toxic environment.Moscows Other Toxins include chlorine, chloramines (easily removed with a water conditioner), chemical sprays used in the home, tobacco (via fumes or from fingernails put in the water), paint fumes, and unsuitable plastic decorations (do not use if it smells strongly of plastic). Some plastics can release phenols or other chemicals into the water that are poisonous to fish. These include polypropylene and materials containing plasticizers, which are slowly dissolved in the water. The plastic turns slippery, then dry and brittle. Check any items not made for aquariums by inserting them in hot water for several hours. If there is still a plastic odour, do not use them. Dead snails will quickly pollute an aquarium and kill the fish. As well, watch out for galvanized buckets and water from recently decalcified water heaters. http://www.doctoryourself.com/lead.html Angel fish killed by lead weights leaching into water http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/equipment_2_p2.htm There are two ways. First, for a long time live plants have been sold with a metallic lead band around the bottom of each plant. These heavy lead bands weigh the plants down and cause the plants to sink. You may be able to buy these lead bands in a pet store. ... lead is a heavy metal and can be poisonous. This is especially a problem in an aquarium with water that has a very low pH. Most aquariums in the U.S. have water with a high pH, so I'm told that the lead will not dissolve and cause problems. But lead kind of worries me, so I try to avoid it. \ Alot of the weights used to hold down aquatic plants are made of zinc instead of lead now.This can also be detrimental to fish,especially a lower PH.Guppies are especially susceptible to this.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26439	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Lead weights-caution

I have never noticed any problem with the lead plant strips over the years. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lead weights-caution So does that mean you think the plant strips are safe or no? I've been using them to hold down my hemianthus callitricoides and it often grows so thick around the strip that I can't get the strip back out but if they're bad I'll be doing some trimming today. Kate Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: 1. I see no references given for any of the claims made, though I do know that some of them are true from my readings. 2. There is a process that occurs, though I hesitate to give it a name, that is similar to what you see with an aluminum door or iron left out. The aluminum develops a coating from a reaction with oxygen, as does the iron. On the iron this oxidation is known as rust. If the lead strips are left in water, they will also develop a coating which protects the lead from further dissolving in water. 3. Some of the best aquarists I know are heavy smokers, to address another mention on that page you have given. Makes me wonder about the perceived problems caused by tobacco smoke. 4. Stuff like this smacks of junk science. When I hear of stuff like this, and look around, I am truly surprised that so many of my generation and those preceding it are still around. We went out and played, and actually got dirty. We rode bikes without helmets and other padding, and actually crashed and bled sometimes. Our homes were full of lead paint, inside and outside. Many of our parents smoked and/or drank alcohol. We did not have seat belts, and only the youngest of us were confined to car seats. And so on and so forth. 5. With the advent of the Internet, and even before, anybody can write anything they like. The Internet just makes it more accessible, though no less false or true. One must take a cynical look (some would say critical look) at anything they read, especially on the web, and at least try to corroborate it with other information available, hopefully using reliable sources. A lot of the science reported in the popular media actually bears little resemblance to the source scientific paper. None of the source exceptions, hemming and hawing ever appear, as they do in the source. This is often why we hear or read that this or that is bad for you only to find out a few months or years later that it is good for you, or something in a similar vein. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lead weights-caution I read that many people use lead weights to hold their vegetables or plants down.This can be a serious problem for some fish,as the lead leaches out into the water,and over time will kill the fish. http://guppyplace.tripod.com/WaterQuality.html All heavy metals caa have a detrimental affect on aquatic life,as well as humans.Check the web site as a ref. Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26440	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: silly question????????

More or less what Lenny says. If there is electricity in the water, you are most likely to feel it as a tingle rather than get blown back on your behind. While I have seen a lot of articles and mention of stray electric charges in the water, I have never known anyone who has actually experienced this phenomena. Ray has been around a long time also. He may chose to hop in and tell us if he knows of anyone who has experienced this. Ray, maybe one of us should ask Za if he knows of anyone. He has been doing this longer than almost anyone still active, and probably knows more people than both of us combined. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] silly question???????? Hi Everyone! I just got my new 54 gallon corner aquarium filled with water, substrate, filter and heater running.....I'm waiting for plants to be delivered (and I'm going to hook up a CO2 system today). Is it safe to plant the aquarium with everything on? (I mean all of the electrical items.... heater, filter) I guess I'm a little freaked out about the whole electricity and water thing! Sorry if this sounds silly to all of you pros out there....but I don't want to be electrocuted! Another thing...I bought one of those Red Sea CO2 Pro Systems that use the paint ball canisters...any idea how long they will last? I got two so I'd have a back up when the first one runs out. Thanks in advance for any advice!!!!!!!! Shari Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26441	From: Debra	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fish

Thanks for the replies on the Angels. Grey if you are selling any of your juveniles I'm interested. I live in Ocean Springs, MS 39564. You can email me offline: dmelton2@... with a price, shipping, and handling. No hurry as far as the weather goes I can wait for it to warm up some. I have a Discus tank and an R/O system so setting up a new tank with the right water parameters is not a problem. Any other tips on raising Angels and fry would be most appreciated. Deb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26442	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: reference for heavy metals in aquarium

Hi Sheriartest57, I'm not picking on you and it's good that you are doing lots of research but I do have to pick on one of your referenced articles... the one from DoctorYourself.com. In reading that DoctorYourself.com article, I had to chuckle that the so-called Dr. Saul (from all I've seen on his site, he is not an M.D. but rather a Ph.D) believes that the lead plant strips killed his angelfish. There is simply no way that lead leached into his water at a rate fast enough to cause lead poisoning to his fish... not unless he is talking years and years and his water was a very low pH and he wasn't using a dechlor product that treats heavy metals and wasn't doing PWC's. Unfortunately, he makes his allegations without giving a timeline or any other information. In all likelihood and a far more common occurrence, he had cycling issues and the fish were suffering from ammonia or nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder) since he was a teenager when this supposedly happened so there was not much information available about the nitrogen cycle in aquaria back then. It could also be pH shock if he had a pH crash or spike which is also likely if he was doing 100% water changes when super-cleaning the tank which was a common thing to do back then. He doesn't mention any kind of water quality test results since he probably wasn't even testing the water. He also doesn't mention tank size but refers to half of the angelfish were dead and the other half were swimming around erratically. This would infer that he had at least four angelfish but I'm betting it was more. He probably had them in an undersized tank since he admits to keeping his other fish in undersized containers and four angelfish would require a BIG tank... probably close to 100G. I remember friends of mine who had multiple angelfish in 10G "community" tanks back then... a recipe for disaster. He says it wasn't until he took a college chemistry course that it struck him that it was lead poisoning. He also mentions breeding bettas and having forty baby food jars with a betta in each one... another pathetic and inexperienced thing to do. To me, it is absurd and actually borderline pathetic that a so-called doctor (and/or learned person) would write an article like that to try and justify fear-mongering to people about lead poisoning. Sure lead poisoning can be a problem but I think he is making up or using unverified information to try and sell his book(s). I also see that he is the author of "Fire Your Doctor" and I would use THAT book on him if he was my doctor. LOL I am CC'ing him a copy of this reply at drsaul@... so maybe he will re-write his article and either reference it better as to water quality test results, tank size, number of fish, etc., or take out the fish references completely as it makes him look silly to an experience fish keeper. Aquariumfish.net is also known to give out lots of BAD information. They even mention keeping goldfish in bowls on that site... pathetic advice!!! The site does have some good info but everything should be vetted properly before relying solely on the information on that site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 6:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] reference for heavy metals in aquarium Here is the reference page in original post.I took the time to copy it and paste it for anyone unable to click on it http://guppyplace.tripod.com/WaterQuality.html <http://guppyplace.tripod.com/WaterQuality.html> Toxins in the Water: The Invisible Culprit. Heavy Metals such as copper, iron, zinc, and lead destroy the fish's slime coat, cause blood patches, cloudy eyes, listlessness, and damage the gills, eventually leading to death. Keep all metal out of the tank. If you have problems you cannot identify you may be able to link them to contamination from old copper pipes. While copper is sometimes used to cure protozoal diseases, the concentration used for this purpose is relatively safe. When treating fish with copper make sure your water conditioner does not deactivate heavy metals or it will have no effect. Symptoms: Low-level, chronic cases: Loss of colour, or darkening or "off-colour": loss of appetite; prone to fin rot, fungus, or other infectious diseases. Loss of interest in breeding. In acute cases: Peculiar swimming, rapid gill movements, darting after a long period of inactivity, gasping, cloudy or protruding eyes. All fish in the tank would be affected. Fish will often jump out of a toxic environment.Moscows Other Toxins include chlorine, chloramines (easily removed with a water conditioner), chemical sprays used in the home, tobacco (via fumes or from fingernails put in the water), paint fumes, and unsuitable plastic decorations (do not use if it smells strongly of plastic). Some plastics can release phenols or other chemicals into the water that are poisonous to fish. These include polypropylene and materials containing plasticizers, which are slowly dissolved in the water. The plastic turns slippery, then dry and brittle. Check any items not made for aquariums by inserting them in hot water for several hours. If there is still a plastic odour, do not use them. Dead snails will quickly pollute an aquarium and kill the fish. As well, watch out for galvanized buckets and water from recently decalcified water heaters. http://www.doctoryourself.com/lead.html <http://www.doctoryourself.com/lead.html> Angel fish killed by lead weights leaching into water http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/equipment_2_p2.htm <http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/equipment_2_p2.htm> There are two ways. First, for a long time live plants have been sold with a metallic lead band around the bottom of each plant. These heavy lead bands weigh the plants down and cause the plants to sink. You may be able to buy these lead bands in a pet store. ... lead is a heavy metal and can be poisonous. This is especially a problem in an aquarium with water that has a very low pH. Most aquariums in the U.S. have water with a high pH, so I'm told that the lead will not dissolve and cause problems. But lead kind of worries me, so I try to avoid it. \ Alot of the weights used to hold down aquatic plants are made of zinc instead of lead now.This can also be detrimental to fish,especially a lower PH.Guppies are especially susceptible to this. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 12:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26443	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

I recently received a 10 gallon tank via Freecycle. I already had a tank cover but discovered that evidently they only make a full tank cover with light now (I was just looking to replace the light assembly). I can't seem to figure out what size light (wattage) this hood/light will withstand. The tank is pretty well planted so I am wondering what the biggest wattage bulbs I can purchase for this hood/light. Paula

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26444	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

Does it have space for a single fluorescent tube or for two incandescent tubular bulbs? I've seen both types of 10G tank lids. Compact Fluorescent would be the way to go if you have the kind with two incandescent screw in sockets, so you could have two 15W http://www.builderdepot.com/browse.ihtml?pid=341115&step=5&prodstoreid=4340 or even two 25W bulbs http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6096697 if you want some major lighting. If you have the single fluorescent tube type, then I think you only have one option for an 18" 15W bulb, although I've seen online ads for an Eclipse hood that has two 18" bulbs but that hood would also have the built in Eclipse bio-wheel filter, etc. If you want more lighting, go with a DIY plexiglass cover, cut to fit inside the rim of the 10G tank. Then you can find an 18" light fixture that will hold multiple bulbs... probably only two would be needed... which would then give you the 3WPG. Or you could go with two single bulb fixtures like http://www.amazon.com/Lights-America-7000-Fluorescent-Counter/dp/B00002N5H5 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 10 Gallon Hood/Light I recently received a 10 gallon tank via Freecycle. I already had a tank cover but discovered that evidently they only make a full tank cover with light now (I was just looking to replace the light assembly). I can't seem to figure out what size light (wattage) this hood/light will withstand. The tank is pretty well planted so I am wondering what the biggest wattage bulbs I can purchase for this hood/light. Paula No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 12:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26445	From: ED	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Cory's

What a night, LOL , get back from working a philly and the cory's are laying eggs. Mad rush to get the 29 set. Here we are trying to get the angels to breed and it's the flippin' cory's. Oh! Well! Saved as many as we could(100-130) till bed time ,Still going this morning, OMGOD, Angels ate well through the night. Tis part of nature. Now I gotta find out what cory fry need. Any help would be appreciated.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26446	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: silly question????????

Shari, "Stray electricity" in the aquaria can be a phenomenon, but is usually the result of old and/or damaged equipment such as water damage to the electrical (sockets, etc.) components of the lighting reflector or faulty wiring at the heater again where water has come in contact with it. This phenomenom, when it does happen, most often occurs with the result of the combination of this faulty equipment and constant aquarium water spray from filter and airstone surface agitation creating a more or less permanently wet pathway between the corrosion-created open circuit and the water column. Although its rare, one can experience a slight tingle of varying degrees, depending on the extent of the leakage of the circuit. For peace of mind, if for no other reason, I'd suggest temporarily unplugging any electrical aquarium equipment before plunging your hands in the aquarium for planting if it will make you feel more at ease. The odds of you experiencing any sort of tingle is extremely remote, especially with new equipment, and as far as being electrocuted you would need to be grounded for this to happen -- which is why the fish do not get electrocuted if there's any voltage leakage occurring; they are not grounded (nor is there a completed circuit throughout the aquarium). There are planting sticks available to reach the substrate without having to "dive in." In can unsuspectingly happen however, if the water column is in DIRECT contact with an open circuit, that you can get knocked on your rear if for instance your heater sustains a crack in the glass allowing the aquarium water to reach the live electrical circuitry within (and allowing this live circuitry to then be part of the the water column). I know of this firsthand (twice) many years ago, before I employed space heating for maintaining my hatchery's temperature and recall others having this same experience almost always when a heater had cracked, so I can relate that this can happen. But then, the fact that I was standing on the basement floor may have had a lot to do with it, even though the floor wasn't wet. I'll ask Rosario about this to see what he has heard. I don't believe he's ever experienced this himself as he's always had space heating in his hatcheries. Our resident Tetra expert Hank, on this Forum, may have experienced or heard more on this and he's known Za at least as long as I have so maybe he can fill us in more. I'll ask Za next time (next week) I see him on what he's heard about this. Before many manufactures went to full hoods, strip reflectors were available which only took up about 4" or so of the usual 12" wide tank, allowing one to work in the tank without having to remove the reflector since the rest if the tank's top was open after any other covering was removed. This was an exceedingly dangerous situation if by accident the reflector was inadvertantly knocked into the tank while your arm was down into the water. Still no chance of actually being electrocuted (unless you were grounded), but it was an "electrifying experience" to say the least. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > More or less what Lenny says. If there is electricity in the water, you are most likely to feel it as a tingle rather than get blown back on your behind. While I have seen a lot of articles and mention of stray electric charges in the water, I have never known anyone who has actually experienced this phenomena. > > Ray has been around a long time also. He may chose to hop in and tell us if he knows of anyone who has experienced this. Ray, maybe one of us should ask Za if he knows of anyone. He has been doing this longer than almost anyone still active, and probably knows more people than both of us combined. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 5:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] silly question???????? > > Hi Everyone! > > I just got my new 54 gallon corner aquarium filled with water, > substrate, filter and heater running.....I'm waiting for plants to be > delivered (and I'm going to hook up a CO2 system today). Is it safe to > plant the aquarium with everything on? (I mean all of the electrical > items.... heater, filter) I guess I'm a little freaked out about the > whole electricity and water thing! Sorry if this sounds silly to all of > you pros out there....but I don't want to be electrocuted! > > Another thing...I bought one of those Red Sea CO2 Pro Systems that use > the paint ball canisters...any idea how long they will last? I got two > so I'd have a back up when the first one runs out. > > Thanks in advance for any advice!!!!!!!! > > Shari > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26447	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

Paula, This simple and easy suggestion is by far one if the best recommendations for sufficiently lighting a small tank such as a 10 gallon, when an otherwise commercially available piece of equipment does not allow for the recommended average of 3 Watts per gallon illumination -- or when needing to increase the wattage depending on the light requirements of more light-loving plants. I'd suggest you take advantage of this idea as it should well fit your needs, and is the best I've seen in a good while. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Does it have space for a single fluorescent tube or for two incandescent > tubular bulbs? I've seen both types of 10G tank lids. > > Compact Fluorescent would be the way to go if you have the kind with two > incandescent screw in sockets, so you could have two 15W > http://www.builderdepot.com/browse.ihtml? pid=341115&step=5&prodstoreid=4340 > or even two 25W bulbs http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6096697 if you > want some major lighting. If you have the single fluorescent tube type, > then I think you only have one option for an 18" 15W bulb, although I've > seen online ads for an Eclipse hood that has two 18" bulbs but that hood > would also have the built in Eclipse bio-wheel filter, etc. > > If you want more lighting, go with a DIY plexiglass cover, cut to fit inside > the rim of the 10G tank. Then you can find an 18" light fixture that will > hold multiple bulbs... probably only two would be needed... which would then > give you the 3WPG. Or you could go with two single bulb fixtures like > http://www.amazon.com/Lights-America-7000-Fluorescent- Counter/dp/B00002N5H5 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Paula Brown > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 10 Gallon Hood/Light > > I recently received a 10 gallon tank via Freecycle. I already had a tank > cover but discovered that evidently they only make a full tank cover with > light now (I was just looking to replace the light assembly). I can't seem > to figure out what size light (wattage) this hood/light will withstand. The > tank is pretty well planted so I am wondering what the biggest wattage bulbs > I can purchase for this hood/light. > > Paula > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 > 12:17 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26448	From: hank voss	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: silly question????????

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Shari, "Stray electricity" in the aquaria can be a phenomenon, but > is usually the result of old and/or damaged equipment such as water > damage to the electrical (sockets, etc.) components of the lighting > reflector or faulty wiring at the heater again where water has come > in contact with it. This phenomenom, when it does happen, most > often occurs with the result of the combination of this faulty > equipment and constant aquarium water spray from filter and airstone ====================== Hi Ray; Ive been zapped several times over the past 65 yrs.esp. when the power cords were the non polorized type tnat are now employed.I would usually get just a tingle usually when you had a small cut or opening on your hand.If you grounded yourself like on the rim of a ss tank you would get a larger "ZAP".You could vary oe eliminate the tingle by reversing the plug in the outlet(not a smart move ether way) In fact last week I had the "feeling" when I put my hand in the 70g outside to get some plants.It seems i had a smaal break in the skin around the nail so i switched hands.As long as you are not in contact with a direct ground you should not have problems.esp. now since the tanks are all glass. The time that scared me the most was when i was working in a tank and the reflector fell in.Talk about a heart stopping moment.Nothing happened though not even a blown fuse,talk about dumb luck.Reflectors are the bigest problem for zaps,humidity.air stone spray and calcium deposits all form an elect. pathway If you have any doubts about your tank you can use a meter to see if there is any power present and how much there is. Regards Hank > surface agitation creating a more or less permanently wet pathway > between the corrosion-created open circuit and the water column. > Although its rare, one can experience a slight tingle of varying > degrees, depending on the extent of the l > I'll ask Rosario about this to see what he has heard. I don't > believe he's ever experienced this himself as he's always had space > heating in his hatcheries. Our resident Tetra expert Hank, on this > Forum, may have experienced or heard more on this and he's known Za > at least as long as I have so maybe he can fill us in more.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26449	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: Cory's

In a message dated 3/11/2008 8:45:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, crowstarwalker@... writes: the cory's are laying eggs. Gosh that is so exciting and sorry I don't have any help with the fry, but wanted to know if you use gravel or sand in your tank? I've heard conflicting info about what the corys like. Good luck with the babies. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26450	From: ED	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: Cory's

Small gravel(normal tank gravel) and actually we did add some lighter colored large patio gravel(up to 5/8" ) around the larger sword plants. I'll get some pics of the tank, course we moved a few plants to save eggs. You might see some in the pics I posted of the angels in My album. TY --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Maxmillionmaxcat@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/11/2008 8:45:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > crowstarwalker@... writes: > > the cory's are > laying eggs. > > > Gosh that is so exciting and sorry I don't have any help with the fry, but > wanted to know if you use gravel or sand in your tank? I've heard conflicting > info about what the corys like. Good luck with the babies. > > > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26451	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Platy in the plant...?

Ok I have a plant that is suction cupped to the side of one of my tanks mainly it was for any fry that may end up happening. Well one of my platys (I have two that have looked pregnant for 2 1/2-3 months since we first brought them home) has wedged herself into the middle of it and Im not sure if I should wait because maybe she is having fry or if I should move the plant and chase her out of it. Basically I want to know when I should start to worry that she cannot get out? She has been in the same spot now for about 5 hours now. She is not struggling or trying to get out...she didnt even come out for the blood worm dinner? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26452	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: False Alarm on Platy

When I was moving the frogbit from on top of the fake plant she came out of the plant I thought she might have been stuck in but went right back in the same spot so I guess now is a wait and see if maybe she might be hiding to have her fry. Do they usually hide for so long before having their fry? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26453	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: Platy in the plant...?

Since you've already replied to yourself, I just need to make one comment... the one that popped into my head when I first saw your subject. "Cat in the Hat...?" ;-) As long as you don't start feeding the Platy in the plant some green eggs and ham, I think Dr. Seuss won't care where I am and will leave you alone or possibly he'll throw you a bone... unless you start adding to your posts like... the platy in the plant just begs for eggs and then Dr. Seuss might sue! OK.. I'm obviously up past my bed time. LOL I can't help you a lot on the livebearers since I've never owned them but from all I've read, I don't think they "look pregnant for 2 1/2 - 3 months"... it's more like popping out fry every month. Normally, a sick fish will hide to try and save itself from other fish as basic Darwinism takes over and often times, healthy fish will pick on a sick fish to hasten it's death. Lenny V. 504-621-1870 Pics/Info/IM - http://profiles.yahoo.com/LoverLennyV -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 9:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy in the plant...? Ok I have a plant that is suction cupped to the side of one of my tanks mainly it was for any fry that may end up happening. Well one of my platys (I have two that have looked pregnant for 2 1/2-3 months since we first brought them home) has wedged herself into the middle of it and Im not sure if I should wait because maybe she is having fry or if I should move the plant and chase her out of it. Basically I want to know when I should start to worry that she cannot get out? She has been in the same spot now for about 5 hours now. She is not struggling or trying to get out...she didnt even come out for the blood worm dinner? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1324 - Release Date: 3/10/2008 7:27 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26454	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/11/2008
Subject: Re: Platy in the plant...?

Lol gotta love Dr Suess. I will keep an eye on the hiding platy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26455	From: renee31477	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I just got a 10g too(from freecycle too) I was trying to figure out lighting as well..I have the stock hood with 2 incandescent fixtures...I tried using 25w sprial CFLs...they fit in the socket, but they are too wide so you would have to prop up the hood on something to keep bulbs from touching your cover. I havent tried the smaller ones yet (13w is it?) but I think it might work... For now I have a clamp-on light fixture with a 20w CFL in it... Let me know if you try the 13w bulbs(if you have the incandescent fixtures that is) Renee Does it have space for a single fluorescent tube or for two incandescent > tubular bulbs? I've seen both types of 10G tank lids. > > Compact Fluorescent would be the way to go if you have the kind with two > incandescent screw in sockets, so you could have two 15W > http://www.builderdepot.com/browse.ihtml? pid=341115&step=5&prodstoreid=4340 > or even two 25W bulbs http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6096697 if you > want some major lighting. If you have the single fluorescent tube type, > then I think you only have one option for an 18" 15W bulb, although I've > seen online ads for an Eclipse hood that has two 18" bulbs but that hood > would also have the built in Eclipse bio-wheel filter, etc. > > If you want more lighting, go with a DIY plexiglass cover, cut to fit inside > the rim of the 10G tank. Then you can find an 18" light fixture that will > hold multiple bulbs... probably only two would be needed... which would then > give you the 3WPG. Or you could go with two single bulb fixtures like > http://www.amazon.com/Lights-America-7000-Fluorescent- Counter/dp/B00002N5H5 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Paula Brown > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 10 Gallon Hood/Light > > I recently received a 10 gallon tank via Freecycle. I already had a tank > cover but discovered that evidently they only make a full tank cover with > light now (I was just looking to replace the light assembly). I can't seem > to figure out what size light (wattage) this hood/light will withstand. The > tank is pretty well planted so I am wondering what the biggest wattage bulbs > I can purchase for this hood/light. > > Paula > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 > 12:17 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26456	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

3 wpg ( watts per gal.) is a way to much for a 10 gal. it’s only 12” deep, If you don’t plan to use injected CO2 1.5 to 2 wpg is enough , more than 2 it’s algae you will grow not plan, make sure also than you have a good substrate, with some iron rich clay and some humus you can use florite or some laterite mix in the first layer of the gravel for the iron clay, and put some peat moss a the bottom on the tank, under everything ( very few, less than a handful). Ric -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Raymond Wetzel Envoyé : March 11, 2008 9:09 AM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light Paula, This simple and easy suggestion is by far one if the best recommendations for sufficiently lighting a small tank such as a 10 gallon, when an otherwise commercially available piece of equipment does not allow for the recommended average of 3 Watts per gallon illumination -- or when needing to increase the wattage depending on the light requirements of more light-loving plants. I'd suggest you take advantage of this idea as it should well fit your needs, and is the best I've seen in a good while. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26457	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

You need to get the compact fluorescents that have four or six straight tubes rather than the spiral type. The spiral type are meant to replace a light bulb in a lamp so the lamp shade could still sit on the bulb. The 15W straight ones will fit in most of the hoods that have the two incandescent bulb sockets. Two 25W bulbs would be giving the tank a LOT of lighting (5WPG) so it would be best to use either one of them or two of the 15W compact fluorescent bulbs. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of renee31477 Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I just got a 10g too(from freecycle too) I was trying to figure out lighting as well..I have the stock hood with 2 incandescent fixtures...I tried using 25w sprial CFLs...they fit in the socket, but they are too wide so you would have to prop up the hood on something to keep bulbs from touching your cover. I havent tried the smaller ones yet (13w is it?) but I think it might work... For now I have a clamp-on light fixture with a 20w CFL in it... Let me know if you try the 13w bulbs(if you have the incandescent fixtures that is) Renee Does it have space for a single fluorescent tube or for two incandescent > tubular bulbs? I've seen both types of 10G tank lids. > > Compact Fluorescent would be the way to go if you have the kind with two > incandescent screw in sockets, so you could have two 15W > http://www.builderdepot.com/browse.ihtml? > <http://www.builderdepot.com/browse.ihtml?> pid=341115&step=5&prodstoreid=4340 > or even two 25W bulbs http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6096697 > <http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6096697> if you > want some major lighting. If you have the single fluorescent tube type, > then I think you only have one option for an 18" 15W bulb, although I've > seen online ads for an Eclipse hood that has two 18" bulbs but that hood > would also have the built in Eclipse bio-wheel filter, etc. > > If you want more lighting, go with a DIY plexiglass cover, cut to fit inside > the rim of the 10G tank. Then you can find an 18" light fixture that will > hold multiple bulbs... probably only two would be needed... which would then > give you the 3WPG. Or you could go with two single bulb fixtures like > http://www.amazon.com/Lights-America-7000-Fluorescent- > <http://www.amazon.com/Lights-America-7000-Fluorescent-> Counter/dp/B00002N5H5 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Paula Brown > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 10 Gallon Hood/Light > > I recently received a 10 gallon tank via Freecycle. I already had a tank > cover but discovered that evidently they only make a full tank cover with > light now (I was just looking to replace the light assembly). I can't seem > to figure out what size light (wattage) this hood/light will withstand. The > tank is pretty well planted so I am wondering what the biggest wattage bulbs > I can purchase for this hood/light. > > Paula > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/2008 1:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26458	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

Ric, I don't know what prompts you to suggest that 3 wpg is too much for a 10 gallon (12" high) tank, any more than it is for a 15 gallon (long) or a 20 gallon (long), also 12" high tanks. This is the universally recommended wattage for such tanks and has been for the last 60 years or more -- it has always worked for me, with never having an algae problem. Of course, if your parameters, maintenance procedures and general aquarium conditions vary substantially from the norm, you well may have problems and can expect them. However, if you have the tank normally aqua-scaped with live plants, keep an eye on any excess nutrients and maintain the lighting duration to that only required by the plants (in an area that is not subjected to a southern exposure -- read: direct sunlight), you'll have a tank of nice lush plant growth with no problems of an algae nature -- and while flourite and laterite and all those other new innovations may help, they are not essential. Neither is CO2 injection required unless you're trying to grow those more "exotic" types of plants (including those newer reddish varieties) which would benefit from these enrichments of their environment. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natural Aquarium" <naquarium@...> wrote: > > 3 wpg ( watts per gal.) is a way to much for a 10 gal. it's only 12" > deep, If you don't plan to use injected CO2 1.5 to 2 wpg is enough , > more than 2 it's algae you will grow not plan, make sure also than you > have a good substrate, with some iron rich clay and some humus you can > use florite or some laterite mix in the first layer of the gravel for > the iron clay, and put some peat moss a the bottom on the tank, under > everything ( very few, less than a handful). > > Ric > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De > la part de Raymond Wetzel > Envoyé : March 11, 2008 9:09 AM > À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Objet : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light > > Paula, This simple and easy suggestion is by far one if the best > recommendations for sufficiently lighting a small tank such as a 10 > gallon, when an otherwise commercially available piece of equipment > does not allow for the recommended average of 3 Watts per gallon > illumination -- or when needing to increase the wattage depending on > the light requirements of more light-loving plants. I'd suggest you > take advantage of this idea as it should well fit your needs, and is > the best I've seen in a good while. Ray > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26459	From: Beverly	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: Cory's

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > What a night, LOL , get back from working a philly and the cory's are > laying eggs. Mad rush to get the 29 set. Here we are trying to get the > angels to breed and it's the flippin' cory's. Oh! Well! Saved as many > as we could(100-130) till bed time ,Still going this morning, OMGOD, > Angels ate well through the night. Tis part of nature. > > Now I gotta find out what cory fry need. > Any help would be appreciated. Hi Ed, My corys have not spawned for me (yet?) but I currently am reading a helpful book about them. It's the Colored atlas of miniature catfish..., by Warren E. Burgess. It was published by TFH in 1992 and I like it particularly because of its species-by-species coverage. You didn't say which species you have but I commonly see that fry of various species feed on infusoria, liquid fry food, microworms, rotifers and newly hatched brine shrimp (nauplii). The entry on C. trilineatus was more explicit in this matter; so many of the other entries are general. Do you perhaps have this common species? The book also says that with daily water changes they "grow quite fast" with the black spot on the dorsal fin appearing about 60 days after hatching. It also says that the eggs of C. trilineatus hatched on about the 4th to 6th day. Let me know if you want me to look anything up in this book. I have it from another library via interlibrary loan so I should be able to use it for about another week. Good luck! Beverly

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26460	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

The answer is simple experience ( a lot of it) , a low tech tank, need between 1.5 to 2 wpg, if you look at the Tom Barr group and other plant dedicated groups that's the norms, people use only over 2.5 wpg with CO2 injection and liquid fertilizer dozing. I can show you pics of my tank with less than 2WPG and all the plants florish. I have 80 natural tank in my fish house, so believe me I keep the light low , for 2 reason, the electrical bill first, and the pruning second, I don't have 120 hours a week to prune the plants. Even the one who supposedly need more light, every plant grow at 2wpg, they just grow slower. And I don't use CO2 It's a miss conception transmit from peoples to peoples, plants will not do better with more light. The most important think is to balance, putting more light will not help if you don't have more CO2, its simple photosynthesis principal. Plant need also iron, and iron in water is a recipes for disaster, it's why it's important to keep the iron in the gravel, available only to the root. Fist when you establish a new tank, you need a lot of fast growing plants, you let the tank settle and after you can replace the fast growing one with the one who grow slower ( ex. Crypt.) Even in a high tech tank I will go with no more than 2 wpg, and wait 3 months before increase to 3 , 4 or 5 wpg, Of course if someone keep the nutrient who feed the algae under control, it will help, but it's not every one who apt to do so, so the best is to not over light the tank. Ric. < I don't know what prompts you to suggest that 3 wpg is too much for a 10 gallon (12" high) tank, any more than it is for a 15 gallon (long) or a 20 gallon (long), also 12" high tanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26461	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: My 220 gal. low light tank

To made a fallow up , I made a new folder in the photo section name naquarium, I include a picture of my 220 gal. tank, with only 10 X T8 32 watts tubes, ( 320 totals) so less than 1.5 wpg. I of course inject CO2 in this tank, the result just prove than even with lower light you can achieve very gold results. The substrat is made of florite with a little bit of leonardite ( to give humus, with out the trouble associate with peat moss) I only add some KNO3 time to time in the water. An other thing I replace the bulb only when they burn, I guess the one who start the idea to change them every 6 months was Sylvania or GE :-) Ric [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26462	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: My 220 gal. low light tank

To made a fallow up , I made a new folder in the photo section name naquarium, I include a picture of my 220 gal. tank, with only 10 X T8 32 watts tubes, ( 320 totals) so less than 1.5 wpg. I of course inject CO2 in this tank, the result just prove than even with lower light you can achieve very gold results. The substrat is made of florite with a little bit of leonardite ( to give humus, with out the trouble associate with peat moss) I only add some KNO3 time to time in the water. An other thing I replace the bulb only when they burn, I guess the one who start the idea to change them every 6 months was Sylvania or GE :-) Ric [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26463	From: ED	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: Cory's

Oooops! Green cory's, And all the articles I read was that they need cooler water, below 80F. I raised the temp in my tank trying to get the angels to start breeding and POOF! there go the cory's. TY. We have frozen baby brine and will be picking up some of the eye-dropper food. <crosses fingers> Now the biggy will I avoid fungus. I'll keep ya posted. Got some pics of the tank just havn't posted yet. TY again. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Beverly" <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > What a night, LOL , get back from working a philly and the cory's are > > laying eggs. Mad rush to get the 29 set. Here we are trying to get the > > angels to breed and it's the flippin' cory's. Oh! Well! Saved as many > > as we could(100-130) till bed time ,Still going this morning, OMGOD, > > Angels ate well through the night. Tis part of nature. > > > > Now I gotta find out what cory fry need. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Hi Ed, > > My corys have not spawned for me (yet?) but I currently am reading a > helpful book about them. It's the Colored atlas of miniature > catfish..., by Warren E. Burgess. It was published by TFH in 1992 and > I like it particularly because of its species-by-species coverage. You > didn't say which species you have but I commonly see that fry of > various species feed on infusoria, liquid fry food, microworms, > rotifers and newly hatched brine shrimp (nauplii). The entry on C. > trilineatus was more explicit in this matter; so many of the other > entries are general. Do you perhaps have this common species? The book > also says that with daily water changes they "grow quite fast" with > the black spot on the dorsal fin appearing about 60 days after > hatching. It also says that the eggs of C. trilineatus hatched on > about the 4th to 6th day. > > Let me know if you want me to look anything up in this book. I have it > from another library via interlibrary loan so I should be able to use > it for about another week. > > Good luck! > Beverly >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26464	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

As for the lot of "experience" I had hope you wouldn't go there. With your "experience" then, are you trying to tell me aquarists never grew plants years ago??? If you have experience, you would then know that such introductions as CO2 injection, laterite, flourite and peat moss in the substrate were unheard of years ago, yet many hobbyist grew tanks of lush plants. There were a few aquarists back then who experimented with using loam under an overlay of gravel, with good effect, but the average hobbyist never attempted this. The general recommended wattage per gallon then was conceeded as being 3 watts per gallon on average -- and all plants were "low tech" back then; there were no special varieties then that needed special technology. This wattage per gallon rating had been in effect for well over 70 years, or shortly after the time when artificial lighting first started being used on aquariums and has been the norm for a good many decades. If you don't want algae, just starve it of phosphorus and cut down a bit on the duration. If you don't want to spend 120 hours a week trimming plants, just adjust the lighting duration to that which the plants need. Too many hobbyists try keeping there lights on for 12 hours per day or more, from the time they leave for work until well after the time they get home and have dinner. I don't know who Tom Barr is, but I'm well familiar with Takashi Amano, having his 3 volume set of "Nature Aquarium World." In it, he suggests using even more light for the smaller aquarium, although I would not recommend that. He also maintains high tech tanks and plant which require more lighting, along with CO2, etc. On average though, he uses from 40 to 50 watts on a 10 gallon tank, up to 80 watts, but again this depends on the circumstances -- types of plants, etc., and their requirements. He does recommend from 2 to 4 watts per gallon though, on average, if you're familiar with his works. Of course, we both may be talking about different planting situations (species and varieties of these plants. etc.), so our differences of opinion may just be a matter of semantics. As for the "experience" you site, since you mention it, I am curious now as to just what that is, unless by that you mean your 80 tanks you maintain, but that is not having experience in knowing what aquatic plants have or haven't needed or used as lighting all along in the past, before this modern technology came about. I wholeheartedly agree that plants can only use as much light as they have nutrients to use and grown by, but the balance comes with the lighting duration, giving those more light-requiring plants adequate intensity while restricting the duration time for those plants that cannot or do not use a longer time. This has worked out fine all along throughout the hobby up until now and only recent innovations have changed things if one wants to make use of them, although they're not required. I've entered many a prize-winning planted tank in shows 40 and 50 years ago using these same principals, and you can argue all you want if you prefer, but the "proof is in the pudding," and I never had CO2 years ago. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natural Aquarium" <naquarium@...> wrote: > > The answer is simple experience ( a lot of it) , a low tech tank, need > between 1.5 to 2 wpg, if you look at the Tom Barr group and other plant > dedicated groups that's the norms, people use only over 2.5 wpg with > CO2 injection and liquid fertilizer dozing. I can show you pics of my > tank with less than 2WPG and all the plants florish. I have 80 natural > tank in my fish house, so believe me I keep the light low , for 2 > reason, the electrical bill first, and the pruning second, I don't have > 120 hours a week to prune the plants. Even the one who supposedly need > more light, every plant grow at 2wpg, they just grow slower. And I don't > use CO2 > > It's a miss conception transmit from peoples to peoples, plants will not > do better with more light. The most important think is to balance, > putting more light will not help if you don't have more CO2, its simple > photosynthesis principal. Plant need also iron, and iron in water is a > recipes for disaster, it's why it's important to keep the iron in the > gravel, available only to the root. > > Fist when you establish a new tank, you need a lot of fast growing > plants, you let the tank settle and after you can replace the fast > growing one with the one who grow slower ( ex. Crypt.) Even in a high > tech tank I will go with no more than 2 wpg, and wait 3 months before > increase to 3 , 4 or 5 wpg, > > Of course if someone keep the nutrient who feed the algae under control, > it will help, but it's not every one who apt to do so, so the best is to > not over light the tank. > > Ric. > > > > < I don't know what prompts you to suggest that 3 wpg is too much > for a 10 gallon (12" high) tank, any more than it is for a 15 gallon > (long) or a 20 gallon (long), also 12" high tanks. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26465	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: My 220 gal. low light tank

As suspected, by your admission you are using CO2, flourite and laterite. These otherwise unnecessary innovations can make a big difference in the lighting needs/requirements as to their intensity when you've used these addition nutrients to help nourish the plants to grow even in more subdued light. By aquarists' past results, these additions are not needed to grow good plants since they were never available to them (up until now). A good fertilizer between the roots, along with adaquate but not excessive lighting did fine and will continue to do fine in growing plants. I would like know how many hours per day you employ your lights if you care to add that factor to your descriptions, thanks. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natural Aquarium" <naquarium@...> wrote: > > > To made a fallow up , I made a new folder in the photo section name > naquarium, I include a picture of my 220 gal. tank, with only 10 X T8 > 32 watts tubes, ( 320 totals) so less than 1.5 wpg. I of course inject > CO2 in this tank, the result just prove than even with lower light you > can achieve very gold results. The substrat is made of florite with a > little bit of leonardite ( to give humus, with out the trouble associate > with peat moss) I only add some KNO3 time to time in the water. An other > thing I replace the bulb only when they burn, I guess the one who start > the idea to change them every 6 months was Sylvania or GE :-) > > Ric > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26466	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

Ray, Seriously, you don't know Tom Barr ? Everyone who is active a little bit in forum on plants on internet know him, If you subscribe to the TFH you will see is conical time to time too. He is a leader in plants , he own a master in plants, and know he is finishing a PhD in that domain, he publish a lot of article in magazine, He is famous for is technique of dosing fertilizer in high tech planted aquarium, but even him teach to people to never use more than 2wpg in a tank without CO2 I have aquarium since more than 30 years, when I start I use soil, and still use it in a 20 gal or 10 gal. tank, now than Diana Walstad publish a book ( an excellent one everyone should have it) on how to use soil in tank, they call it her method, but you know as me than people put soil in their tank since over 100 years, laterite and leonardite are just been use recently to replace the soil. The leonardite is mainly carbon, so it's bring carbon to the plants as replacement for the missing Co2 injection in low tech tank. I have only 1 tank with CO2, I'm not too much attracted by red plants, I prefer it all greens, with subtitle variation. The 3 watts rules was stated at the time they know only few about plants, now with the better spectrum tube we know that's it's the PAR who is important not the wpg. The new tubes are more efficient. So you need less wpg. Me I have a principal, I use soil in a tank where I know I will not rearrange the plants, ( too messy) in my show tank, in the house I replace the soil with laterite and leonardite or peat, and I generally don't use CO2, I use a medium size gravel, the pop of the fish is the fertilizer, it go between the gravel, I keep only small fish, but in large amount, and I feed enough, the extra food feed the plants, if you read the book of Walstad, you will discover than the fish food contain all the ingredient the plants need. I made my water change only when need ( every 1, 3 6 months, it's depend) ) I don't have filter in many tank, the plants are my filter. I keep the surface not agitated to not loss CO2 ( especially in the tank without injection) Where I agree with you is in some tank I use plain gravel only with Florish Tab fertilizer in it , and I grow very huge echino with success , and those tank have filter with a lot of turbulence at the surface. So it's make me thing sometime than just give water too a plant and it will grow. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26467	From: Debra	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: My 220 gal. low light tank

Ric: What a beautiful tank garden you created. Thank you for sharing. Deb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26468	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: RE : RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

Ray, We can debate about our technique for the next 10 years, and no one will have the only truth about it. Like many other aspect of this hobby, they are 1000 of way to do thing good and of course millions of way to kill plants and fish. For me what is important is to find a way to keep it simple, for the reason than for months I can pass 80 hours in my tanks, but others months I'm less available. I will never use the method of Tom Barr to dose an aquarium, he measure fertilizer and add a small amount of them daily, and at the end of the week he change 50% of the water to make sure you don't have build up of fertilizer, that's simply too much work. I don't like also to use my method of soil and no filter in a show tank, of course it's less maintenance, but the water is yellow , you have biofilm on the surface of the water, even if the plants and the fish are in haven, it's not looking clean enough to put in a lounge. For come back on the question about the 10 gal. I think the suggestion of Lenny to put 2 compact bulb of 13watts is the best in that case, it's cheap and easy to do. I will even try it in a 10 gal. with this type of cover, ( usually my tank are in row in shelf with 4 feet shop light over them, with a mixture of daylight and grolux, cheap and very efficient) It gone made 26 watts, if she start the tank with a lot of fast growing plants, it will be ok, just make sure to now add chemical with soluble iron and phosphate. Many plants don't need a lot, so in that case I will put tab of fertilizer only around the plants who need more. Seachem florish tab are very good. RIC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26469	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: My 220 gal. low light tank

In a message dated 3/12/2008 2:59:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, naquarium@... writes: To made a fallow up , I made a new folder in the photo section name naquarium, Well, Ric that tank is absolutely lush and beautiful. I can only imagine the time, effort and patience it took. Yep, the proof is in the pudding. And I hope you and Ray keep arguing because I am picking up all kinds of info, intend to save your replies and take many, many notes later. :) **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26470	From: Richdeer3 Pond Supplies	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Fun facts to share

Forums are a great way to learn about ponds and koi. Here's some interesting facts about koi to pass the time. What other fun facts do you know? Koi Can Taste: They have taste buds almost everywhere: On their lips Within their mouth cavity Their fleshy barbels (2 in each corner of the mouth) bear numerous taste buds and are highly sensitive to touch Most of their bodies are covered with innumerable taste buds, including their fins and tail Koi Can Smell: The lining of the olfactory or nasal organ in Koi has special sensory cells to function as smell receptors. Koi Can Blush: Koi show stress by blushing red in their fins and on their bodies. When they are handled in a net you can see the red in their fins, between the spines. Also when they are in a stressful environment, such as bad water, they will often show a red blush on their bodies under the scales. Sometimes they almost look like they have varicose veins. Often seen as red in the front spines of the dorsal fin, and on the caudal fin. If you see this they are trying to tell you something is causing them stress. Take measures to relieve the stress or you will start to lose Koi. This is similar to when we blush from embarrassment or stress. Want more info on koi? Check out these articles. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26471	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

Ric, I've seen Tom Barr's articles in TFH from time to time, but never had the inclination to visit his web site which you mentioned, so I don't know all that he recommends. I'm not at all into high tech planted aquariums, I only know what works and has worked for ages. The higher intensity light (of 3 Watts per gallon), as you would call it, allows the plants to take full advantage of the available nutrients up to a point . . . and that point in low tech aquariums is any and all of the relatively little amount of nutrients available, when compared to using flourite, laterite, CO2 and all the rest which have proven to be unnecessary, even though quite helpful and most beneficial with "high tech plantings." I haven't frequented Tom's site mainly because my main interest in my hatchery is breeding fish, although I've always enjoyed growing plants. Belonging to the Aquatic Gardeners Association, I'm well aware of the changes being made lately, but that's not to say that good plants cannot be grown in more simpler manners as had always been done in years past. I can appreciate high tech plantings and can respect the methods used to grow a lot of those red varieties (I'm one to enjoy looking at these types, even if I'm satisfied with growing greens). I see you're a relative newcomer, although 30 years in the hobby is somewhat respectable. Some of us have been in the hobby a good while longer (I've enjoyed it for about 60 years now), and have experienced a lot more of what has gone on and what has progressed over the years -- and what methods have continually succeeded. Yes, as I mentioned, hobbyists have been using soils of different mixes in their tanks, under the gravel, probably as long as they've kept fish in aquaria even though it may not have been standard practice. As you point out, it can get messy when replantings are needed. A good, but fine, layer of mulm (fish waste) has always been known to be one of the best and most complete sources of plant nutrients since the hobby started -- this is really nothing new, but there needs to be a proper balance to allow the fish to prosper as well. I'm well aware of Diane's book and her "method," but see nothing new in it. BTW, while as it seems, 80 tanks will keep you busy, many of us have 100 or 150. I have more than 80 tanks myself, although I'll admit most of them are not planted (or sparsely planted) since fish breeding is my main priority. While I can't agree with your water changing regimen (or lack of it), for differing priorities, I certainly support the notion that plants can greatly filter and purify the water. As for the plants in the hobby at the time of the 3 Watt rule, except for the more exotic reddish varieties, I'm sure there were a lot more different species of plants in the hobby then, than you would suspect. There were at least as many different plant Genera represented, if not having all of the newer Species introductions of them all, with many having the similar requirements as their newer "cousins." Growing hugh Echino's 50 or more years ago, with the same methods I've described, was one of my main enjoyments also, as I see its been one of yours. Speaking of hugh Echino's, I remember once seeing one Echino that all but filled a 100 gallon tank (except for the extreme ends of this tank), in a now-defunct store in New York City called Aquarium Stock Company. Up until that time, I never thought they could grow so large; I'm sure it had to be a wild specimen that was brought in. It was of the species once known as intermedius. Since you at least use an enriched substrate for your plants at least some of the time, you might want to try a mixture of 60% clay, 30% top soil and 10% sand. This simple formula will work work wonders for most any variety of aquatic plants. There's just enough sand to looosen up the clay and the top soil is loaded with nutrients, yet still held together by the clay. I used to use this commercially in water gardening until I retired; its an old formula used by William Tricker when he first started his water lily business in the 1920's, and the same one I used when I later managed that business. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natural Aquarium" <naquarium@...> wrote: > > Ray, Seriously, you don't know Tom Barr ? Everyone who is active a > little bit in forum on plants on internet know him, If you subscribe to > the TFH you will see is conical time to time too. He is a leader in > plants , he own a master in plants, and know he is finishing a PhD in > that domain, he publish a lot of article in magazine, He is famous for > is technique of dosing fertilizer in high tech planted aquarium, but > even him teach to people to never use more than 2wpg in a tank without > CO2 > > I have aquarium since more than 30 years, when I start I use soil, and > still use it in a 20 gal or 10 gal. tank, now than Diana Walstad publish > a book ( an excellent one everyone should have it) on how to use soil in > tank, they call it her method, but you know as me than people put soil > in their tank since over 100 years, laterite and leonardite are just > been use recently to replace the soil. The leonardite is mainly carbon, > so it's bring carbon to the plants as replacement for the missing Co2 > injection in low tech tank. I have only 1 tank with CO2, I'm not too > much attracted by red plants, I prefer it all greens, with subtitle > variation. The 3 watts rules was stated at the time they know only few > about plants, now with the better spectrum tube we know that's it's the > PAR who is important not the wpg. The new tubes are more efficient. So > you need less wpg. > > > Me I have a principal, I use soil in a tank where I know I will not > rearrange the plants, ( too messy) in my show tank, in the house I > replace the soil with laterite and leonardite or peat, and I generally > don't use CO2, I use a medium size gravel, the pop of the fish is the > fertilizer, it go between the gravel, I keep only small fish, but in > large amount, and I feed enough, the extra food feed the plants, if you > read the book of Walstad, you will discover than the fish food contain > all the ingredient the plants need. I made my water change only when > need ( every 1, 3 6 months, it's depend) ) I don't have filter in many > tank, the plants are my filter. I keep the surface not agitated to not > loss CO2 ( especially in the tank without injection) > > Where I agree with you is in some tank I use plain gravel only with > Florish Tab fertilizer in it , and I grow very huge echino with success > , and those tank have filter with a lot of turbulence at the surface. So > it's make me thing sometime than just give water too a plant and it will > grow. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26472	From: waves02	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: large goldfish

o.k. I am new... and I am sure that everyone knows what to do...but, me..=( my children got me a 15 gallon tank.. they also bought me two goldfish.. very large gold fish.. I cannot get the tank clear.. I feel that I have tried everything.. I have never had goldfish.. geez.... caroline any thoughts would be appreciated.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26473	From: Chris	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: New to group

Hello I just joined, and thought I'd say hi and mention my fishies....I have a 2.5 g with a handsome red betta, another 2.5 with african dwarf frogs, 2 platy, 2 guppy. a 10 g with goldfish for the kids, and a new 16 g with 10 neons to which i'll be adding angles this weekend... I am renewing my passion for fish. (I had a 10g with goldfish as a kid) I love the community tanks and am having fun learning about them and keeping the fish happy..... My name is Chris, my hubby and I have 3 kids and live in Everett WA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26474	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray

Ray I see a lot of answer on this and other group who are just been take from website left and right,, that’s not bad, but when I want to start a new adventure I prefer fallow a recipe who have work for years and only when I master it , I will try to adapt it, so nothing better than ask an old timer .So here a question, after many years I get bored to buy fish at the LFS, I try all of them, since a month I’m trying to figure what king of fish I will be interested to breed, not for sale just for fill my planted aquarium, and for fun. By the nature of my tank, I exclude all form of large fish. I want also non aggressive fish, I try few month ago to breed Koi Angel, I have a success with my first try, but I discover than it was not for me, first off all the couple wants to kill every other fish in the tank, and the fry and juvenile can not be grow up in planted tank, they consume so much food than it rise up the phosphates to the sky. For now I’m looking at guppy, it’s interesting the play of color you can achieve, I will have guppy for sure, but the problem with them they are hard water fish, and many of my planted tank will not support it, So I will setup few tank with plants who thrive in hard water, but still I need a kind of fish who live neutral to soft water . Small fish, any suggestion ??? -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Raymond Wetzel Envoyé : March 12, 2008 7:38 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light because my main interest in my hatchery is breeding fish, although I've always enjoyed growing plants.. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26475	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray

Ray I see a lot of answer on this and other group who are just been take from website left and right,, that’s not bad, but when I want to start a new adventure I prefer fallow a recipe who have work for years and only when I master it , I will try to adapt it, so nothing better than ask an old timer .So here a question, after many years I get bored to buy fish at the LFS, I try all of them, since a month I’m trying to figure what king of fish I will be interested to breed, not for sale just for fill my planted aquarium, and for fun. By the nature of my tank, I exclude all form of large fish. I want also non aggressive fish, I try few month ago to breed Koi Angel, I have a success with my first try, but I discover than it was not for me, first off all the couple wants to kill every other fish in the tank, and the fry and juvenile can not be grow up in planted tank, they consume so much food than it rise up the phosphates to the sky. For now I’m looking at guppy, it’s interesting the play of color you can achieve, I will have guppy for sure, but the problem with them they are hard water fish, and many of my planted tank will not support it, So I will setup few tank with plants who thrive in hard water, but still I need a kind of fish who live neutral to soft water . Small fish, any suggestion ??? -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Raymond Wetzel Envoyé : March 12, 2008 7:38 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light because my main interest in my hatchery is breeding fish, although I've always enjoyed growing plants.. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26476	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: large goldfish

Go to my blog and check out my Goldfish Care Sheet. It will give you the proper direction on what your goldfish will need for long term success. Your main problem is your tank is much too small. In a proper sized tank, fancy goldfish should live for well over 10-15 years and even over 20 years if all goes well. The world record was 43 years the last time I check. Fancy goldfish should grow to 6" to 8" body length and long-bodied goldfish should grow to 12" to 15"+. For two goldfish, to start with, you should have at least a 55G tank and then be prepared to get an even larger tank in a year or so as they grow out of the 55G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of waves02 Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] large goldfish o.k. I am new... and I am sure that everyone knows what to do...but, me..=( my children got me a 15 gallon tank.. they also bought me two goldfish.. very large gold fish.. I cannot get the tank clear.. I feel that I have tried everything.. I have never had goldfish.. geez.... caroline any thoughts would be appreciated.. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/2008 1:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26477	From: skurjak	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray

How about Bolivian or Blue German rams? They are beautiful and like lower a lower ph. If you want a challenge you could try tetra's too. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natural Aquarium" <naquarium@...> wrote: > > Ray I see a lot of answer on this and other group who are just been take > from website left and right,, that's not bad, but when I want to start a > new adventure I prefer fallow a recipe who have work for years and only > when I master it , I will try to adapt it, so nothing better than ask an > old timer .So here a question, after many years I get bored to buy > fish at the LFS, I try all of them, since a month I'm trying to figure > what king of fish I will be interested to breed, not for sale just for > fill my planted aquarium, and for fun. By the nature of my tank, I > exclude all form of large fish. I want also non aggressive fish, I try > few month ago to breed Koi Angel, I have a success with my first try, > but I discover than it was not for me, first off all the couple wants to > kill every other fish in the tank, and the fry and juvenile can not be > grow up in planted tank, they consume so much food than it rise up the > phosphates to the sky. For now I'm looking at guppy, it's interesting > the play of color you can achieve, I will have guppy for sure, but the > problem with them they are hard water fish, and many of my planted tank > will not support it, So I will setup few tank with plants who thrive in > hard water, but still I need a kind of fish who live neutral to soft > water . Small fish, any suggestion ??? > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De > la part de Raymond Wetzel > Envoyé : March 12, 2008 7:38 PM > À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Objet : Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light > > because my main interest in my > hatchery is breeding fish, although I've always enjoyed growing > plants.. Ray > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26478	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

I was reading your note, ray, and your mention of the substrate mixture stirred some memories, and then you stated it was Tricker's. Heck, you did not even give me enough time to wend through the memory banks to determine the source on my own <g>. It is a good mixture. I remember going over to Tricker's in, I think it was, Saddle River, NJ when I built my first pond at 11 years old. Truly a place of dreams. I've had ponds off and on since then, depending on my residence, and I have also been a care taker of ponds, mainly for a friend of mine in Massachusetts, who was confined to a wheelchair. As far as the lighting on the 10 gallon tanks, I seem to recall a number of them that came with 25 watt incandescent bulbs, while I also remember seeing 15 watt bulbs in them. I don't know if this is a trick of the mind, and I may have been the one to put 25 watt bulbs in when the smaller wattage ones burned out. I did always seem to have better success with plants in the smaller tanks, but it took years for me to put two and two together and realize it was the level of the light in the smaller tanks not the other things I thought it might be such as the amount of waste the fish produced. Mind you, those who are reading this, this was back in the late 50's and early 60's, the end of what is referred to by many as the Golden Age of Fishkeeping. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light Ric, I've seen Tom Barr's articles in TFH from time to time, but never had the inclination to visit his web site which you mentioned, so I don't know all that he recommends. I'm not at all into high tech planted aquariums, I only know what works and has worked for ages. The higher intensity light (of 3 Watts per gallon), as you would call it, allows the plants to take full advantage of the available nutrients up to a point . . . and that point in low tech aquariums is any and all of the relatively little amount of nutrients available, when compared to using flourite, laterite, CO2 and all the rest which have proven to be unnecessary, even though quite helpful and most beneficial with "high tech plantings." I haven't frequented Tom's site mainly because my main interest in my hatchery is breeding fish, although I've always enjoyed growing plants. Belonging to the Aquatic Gardeners Association, I'm well aware of the changes being made lately, but that's not to say that good plants cannot be grown in more simpler manners as had always been done in years past. I can appreciate high tech plantings and can respect the methods used to grow a lot of those red varieties (I'm one to enjoy looking at these types, even if I'm satisfied with growing greens). I see you're a relative newcomer, although 30 years in the hobby is somewhat respectable. Some of us have been in the hobby a good while longer (I've enjoyed it for about 60 years now), and have experienced a lot more of what has gone on and what has progressed over the years -- and what methods have continually succeeded. Yes, as I mentioned, hobbyists have been using soils of different mixes in their tanks, under the gravel, probably as long as they've kept fish in aquaria even though it may not have been standard practice. As you point out, it can get messy when replantings are needed. A good, but fine, layer of mulm (fish waste) has always been known to be one of the best and most complete sources of plant nutrients since the hobby started -- this is really nothing new, but there needs to be a proper balance to allow the fish to prosper as well. I'm well aware of Diane's book and her "method," but see nothing new in it. BTW, while as it seems, 80 tanks will keep you busy, many of us have 100 or 150. I have more than 80 tanks myself, although I'll admit most of them are not planted (or sparsely planted) since fish breeding is my main priority. While I can't agree with your water changing regimen (or lack of it), for differing priorities, I certainly support the notion that plants can greatly filter and purify the water. As for the plants in the hobby at the time of the 3 Watt rule, except for the more exotic reddish varieties, I'm sure there were a lot more different species of plants in the hobby then, than you would suspect. There were at least as many different plant Genera represented, if not having all of the newer Species introductions of them all, with many having the similar requirements as their newer "cousins." Growing hugh Echino's 50 or more years ago, with the same methods I've described, was one of my main enjoyments also, as I see its been one of yours. Speaking of hugh Echino's, I remember once seeing one Echino that all but filled a 100 gallon tank (except for the extreme ends of this tank), in a now-defunct store in New York City called Aquarium Stock Company. Up until that time, I never thought they could grow so large; I'm sure it had to be a wild specimen that was brought in. It was of the species once known as intermedius. Since you at least use an enriched substrate for your plants at least some of the time, you might want to try a mixture of 60% clay, 30% top soil and 10% sand. This simple formula will work work wonders for most any variety of aquatic plants. There's just enough sand to looosen up the clay and the top soil is loaded with nutrients, yet still held together by the clay. I used to use this commercially in water gardening until I retired; its an old formula used by William Tricker when he first started his water lily business in the 1920's, and the same one I used when I later managed that business. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natural Aquarium" <naquarium@...> wrote: > > Ray, Seriously, you don't know Tom Barr ? Everyone who is active a > little bit in forum on plants on internet know him, If you subscribe to > the TFH you will see is conical time to time too. He is a leader in > plants , he own a master in plants, and know he is finishing a PhD in > that domain, he publish a lot of article in magazine, He is famous for > is technique of dosing fertilizer in high tech planted aquarium, but > even him teach to people to never use more than 2wpg in a tank without > CO2 > > I have aquarium since more than 30 years, when I start I use soil, and > still use it in a 20 gal or 10 gal. tank, now than Diana Walstad publish > a book ( an excellent one everyone should have it) on how to use soil in > tank, they call it her method, but you know as me than people put soil > in their tank since over 100 years, laterite and leonardite are just > been use recently to replace the soil. The leonardite is mainly carbon, > so it's bring carbon to the plants as replacement for the missing Co2 > injection in low tech tank. I have only 1 tank with CO2, I'm not too > much attracted by red plants, I prefer it all greens, with subtitle > variation. The 3 watts rules was stated at the time they know only few > about plants, now with the better spectrum tube we know that's it's the > PAR who is important not the wpg. The new tubes are more efficient. So > you need less wpg. > > > Me I have a principal, I use soil in a tank where I know I will not > rearrange the plants, ( too messy) in my show tank, in the house I > replace the soil with laterite and leonardite or peat, and I generally > don't use CO2, I use a medium size gravel, the pop of the fish is the > fertilizer, it go between the gravel, I keep only small fish, but in > large amount, and I feed enough, the extra food feed the plants, if you > read the book of Walstad, you will discover than the fish food contain > all the ingredient the plants need. I made my water change only when > need ( every 1, 3 6 months, it's depend) ) I don't have filter in many > tank, the plants are my filter. I keep the surface not agitated to not > loss CO2 ( especially in the tank without injection) > > Where I agree with you is in some tank I use plain gravel only with > Florish Tab fertilizer in it , and I grow very huge echino with success > , and those tank have filter with a lot of turbulence at the surface. So > it's make me thing sometime than just give water too a plant and it will > grow. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26479	From: kathy	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Help: red/purple slime algae

How do I get rid of this? I have never had a problem until this year. I have tried: poly ox, and several phosphate removers & mats as well as using only RO water. Any one know what causes it or what might eat it. It is covering just about everything in my reef. Thanks, Katt

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26480	From: waves02	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: large goldfish

oh my gosh... thank you so much.. wow.. I am on my way to your blog.. poor little things are probably claustrophobic ... what to do... what to do... thank you so much..again.. caroline At 06:43 PM 3/12/2008, you wrote: >Go to my blog and check out my Goldfish Care Sheet. It will give you the >proper direction on what your goldfish will need for long term success. >Your main problem is your tank is much too small. In a proper sized tank, >fancy goldfish should live for well over 10-15 years and even over 20 years >if all goes well. The world record was 43 years the last time I check. >Fancy goldfish should grow to 6" to 8" body length and long-bodied goldfish >should grow to 12" to 15"+. For two goldfish, to start with, you should >have at least a 55G tank and then be prepared to get an even larger tank in >a year or so as they grow out of the 55G. > >Lenny Vasbinder >Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of waves02 >Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:00 PM >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [AquaticLife] large goldfish > >o.k. I am new... and I am sure that everyone knows what to do...but, me..=( >my children got me a 15 gallon tank.. they also bought me two goldfish.. >very large gold fish.. I cannot get the tank clear.. I feel that I have >tried everything.. I have never had goldfish.. geez.... caroline any >thoughts would be appreciated.. > > >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG. >Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/2008 >1:41 PM > > > > >Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26481	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Brown on my fish?

Ok, so I toook in ANOTHER nasty, dirty tank. It didn't seem so bad until I was part way home in the car. Then I could smell it (it was in the back of a station wagon I was in the front seat of). Then I got it home and started rinsing it out because it had brown water in the bottom. I figured it was fish waste and dirt, and didn't worry too much. Then I got a good look at the fish. One is a long finned black skirt tetra. The other is a 3 spot gourami (from what I read online, it is also called a blue gourami). The tetra (which I know is supposed to be kinda silver and black or grey) has a line that goes from his mouth straight to his tail (all the ones I've seen have the line)...BUT...from the line up is very brown. Fairly dark brown. Beneath the line is a diluted version of the same color. The gourami has some bright yellow spots on the top of his head. And some brown around his gill area and a couple other places on his body. I have been told it could be brown algae that has attached to them and to do water changes and keep the filter really clean (but still allow good bacteris to form in it) and it will go away on it's own. I have also been told it could be velvet and to treat them immediately with some specific medicines and hope for the best, as once velvet gets to this point (if it is velvet) it is usually fatal. The gourami is about 5-6 inches long, and the tetra is about the size of an old fifty cent piece (not counting his beautiful long fins). The lady I got the tank and fish from said they have had it and the fish in it for 3 years. That the gourami killed a pleco they had in there, and that he attacked every other fish they tried to put in there...except the tetra that's in there still. I know the tank is too small for them (it's a 5 gallon), and once I know they are safe to put with other fish, I will move them to my big tank, and put a few of my smaller fish in the little tank...or get them a new bigger tank. Anyway, any help greatly appreciated. Last time I got a yucky tank with fish, the fish were their right colors. I know NOTHING about fish sicknesses/diseases except what I have read in the couple days since I got these two. I did put half a tablet of Jungle brand Lifeguard something in there tonight...they said it will kill it if it is algae, and make some difference if not kill it if it is velvet. Thanks, anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26482	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: New to group

Chris, Welcome to the group. You may want to take a look at the archives to see some of what you are in for here <g>. You will be steered into the right direction to be successful with your fish. Let me just mention two quick things here first. I would not add angels to your tank with the neons. The larger angel fish are infamous for eating the smaller neons. Also, with a 10 gallon tank, it is stocked quite well at this time with just the neons. The angels, a few of them, would start out nicely in a 20 gallon tall tank. The height of the tank is important for angel fish for proper development of the dorsal and anal fins. The distance from the tip of the dorsal fin to the tip of the anal fin should be more than the distance from the tip of the snout to the caudal peduncle (the place where the caudal (tail) fin starts). As for your goldfish, if it is a round bodied goldfish, such as a fan tail, it will need 30 gallons of water per fish as an adult, if it is a normal bodied goldfish, such as a comet, 55 gallons of water would do it well, as it needs the length of the tank for swimming room. It is possible to fudge these figures a bit, such as two goldfish of any type in a 55 gallon tank rather than 60 gallons, but only by a bit. You r ten gallon will not serve as a home for the goldfish for very long before it needs a new, larger, tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to group Hello I just joined, and thought I'd say hi and mention my fishies....I have a 2.5 g with a handsome red betta, another 2.5 with african dwarf frogs, 2 platy, 2 guppy. a 10 g with goldfish for the kids, and a new 16 g with 10 neons to which i'll be adding angles this weekend... I am renewing my passion for fish. (I had a 10g with goldfish as a kid) I love the community tanks and am having fun learning about them and keeping the fish happy..... My name is Chris, my hubby and I have 3 kids and live in Everett WA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26483	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

Not sure if this helps any, but Petsmart has light assemblies that sit on top of the clear plastic part of most tank hoods. They aren't extremely cheap, but they are cheaper than most of the hood/light single piece assemblies. Just a thought :-) anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26484	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray

You could try licorice gouramis or vallenti chocolate gouramis. They do well in soft to neutral tanks. They are small as well Joey **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26485	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

Hi Anndrea, This site http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html has lots of pictures and descriptions of most tropical fish diseases. I have to send you to the WayBack web archived page since the original site is no longer working. It's a shame since it was a really good site but at least it's preserved on the WayBack site. I've seen algae growing on crustaceans before.. snails, crabs, etc., but never on fish so I'm not so sure about it being algae but I'm sure anything is possible. Considering the tank size and condition of the water, it's likely a combination of things. Put them all in a Q-tank and start off treatment with a broad spectrum antibiotic. You will have to do daily testing and PWC's as needed to keep the ammonia levels below 1.0 ppm and preferably below 0.5pppm since the antibiotics will kill off any nitrifying bacteria. If you don't have access to "real" drugs, you could also try a MelaFix/PimaFix cocktail which works against most common external and some internal issues. I've used that cocktail for things like Popeye and digestive tract bacterial infections in a pair of Blue Gouramis that I saved/adopted a few years back and they came through OK. Melafix is also good for external issues, fin rot, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 9:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown on my fish? Ok, so I toook in ANOTHER nasty, dirty tank. It didn't seem so bad until I was part way home in the car. Then I could smell it (it was in the back of a station wagon I was in the front seat of). Then I got it home and started rinsing it out because it had brown water in the bottom. I figured it was fish waste and dirt, and didn't worry too much. Then I got a good look at the fish. One is a long finned black skirt tetra. The other is a 3 spot gourami (from what I read online, it is also called a blue gourami). The tetra (which I know is supposed to be kinda silver and black or grey) has a line that goes from his mouth straight to his tail (all the ones I've seen have the line)...BUT...from the line up is very brown. Fairly dark brown. Beneath the line is a diluted version of the same color. The gourami has some bright yellow spots on the top of his head. And some brown around his gill area and a couple other places on his body. I have been told it could be brown algae that has attached to them and to do water changes and keep the filter really clean (but still allow good bacteris to form in it) and it will go away on it's own. I have also been told it could be velvet and to treat them immediately with some specific medicines and hope for the best, as once velvet gets to this point (if it is velvet) it is usually fatal. The gourami is about 5-6 inches long, and the tetra is about the size of an old fifty cent piece (not counting his beautiful long fins). The lady I got the tank and fish from said they have had it and the fish in it for 3 years. That the gourami killed a pleco they had in there, and that he attacked every other fish they tried to put in there...except the tetra that's in there still. I know the tank is too small for them (it's a 5 gallon), and once I know they are safe to put with other fish, I will move them to my big tank, and put a few of my smaller fish in the little tank...or get them a new bigger tank. Anyway, any help greatly appreciated. Last time I got a yucky tank with fish, the fish were their right colors. I know NOTHING about fish sicknesses/diseases except what I have read in the couple days since I got these two. I did put half a tablet of Jungle brand Lifeguard something in there tonight...they said it will kill it if it is algae, and make some difference if not kill it if it is velvet. Thanks, anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/2008 1:41 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26486	From: renee31477	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

Thank you for pointing this out, Lenny. Renee --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You need to get the compact fluorescents that have four or six straight > tubes rather than the spiral type. The spiral type are meant to replace a > light bulb in a lamp so the lamp shade could still sit on the bulb. The 15W > straight ones will fit in most of the hoods that have the two incandescent > bulb sockets. Two 25W bulbs would be giving the tank a LOT of lighting > (5WPG) so it would be best to use either one of them or two of the 15W > compact fluorescent bulbs. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26487	From: renee31477	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: plants in 10 gallon ( WAS Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light)

So I have 2wpg on this 10g. I so far have the following planted/established in there java fern java moss 3 small varieties of swords a large anubia on a log (with java fern) What else can grow well in a 2-3 wpg tank with flourite substrate? I was thinking of something with height as a background plant Also, should I really need to add liquid ferts (Im using flourish comprehensive once a week and excel every other day) if I have flourite and an adequate fish load? LFS guy told me that flourish comprehensive really isnt as comprehensive as they say.. so far I only have a betta in there, but Im in the process of deciding what else to put in. thanks Renee

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26488	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2008
Subject: Re: plants in 10 gallon ( WAS Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light)

Hi Renee, These pages have a pretty good list of very easy and easy plants that do well in low tech tanks. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of renee31477 Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 11:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] plants in 10 gallon ( WAS Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light) So I have 2wpg on this 10g. I so far have the following planted/established in there java fern java moss 3 small varieties of swords a large anubia on a log (with java fern) What else can grow well in a 2-3 wpg tank with flourite substrate? I was thinking of something with height as a background plant Also, should I really need to add liquid ferts (Im using flourish comprehensive once a week and excel every other day) if I have flourite and an adequate fish load? LFS guy told me that flourish comprehensive really isnt as comprehensive as they say.. so far I only have a betta in there, but Im in the process of deciding what else to put in. thanks Renee No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26489	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Help: red/purple slime algae

I am still a newbie at saltwater but till now what I have experienced is that lack of water flow is the main cause for this algae to spread. Try and notice where you have strong water flow, the algae will not be there. The solution really is to get a couple of stream/wave pumps and get the flow around the rock and the gravel. If needed, manually scrap off the algae and then get the flow right immidiatly with lights off for 1 day. If the lights are off and flow is good all around, it will be difficult for it to get a foothold back on. This certainly does seem to work for me. Nim From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kathy Sent: 13 March 2008 01:52 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help: red/purple slime algae How do I get rid of this? I have never had a problem until this year. I have tried: poly ox, and several phosphate removers & mats as well as using only RO water. Any one know what causes it or what might eat it. It is covering just about everything in my reef. Thanks, Katt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26490	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] plants in 10 gallon ( WAS Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Ligh

Renee, for the 2-3 wpg you can use any plants you like, just make sure to have many who grow fast, ad place them first, after you can add the one who grow slower. Adding excel will be good but pay attention excel do not do well on plant without a stomata and on other plants too, here a small list of plant non compatible with excel : Anacharis Vallinéria Vallisneria americana Vallisneria sp Egeria densa Riccia Pellia and any other liverworts Note than in my tank I use excel with vallisneria with no problem at half dose, but I introduce excel gradually. For your fertilizer, are you living I a city, if you can call the city and have the annual report of the elements contain in your water, it will be the best thing to do, often the water have a lot of nutrient for the plants, so you adjust your fertilizer with the result. If your water contains what you need, you just make more frequent water change to rebuild the nutrient. Florite do not contain to much nutrient it’s more on iron. But florite is high in CEC ( it’s means than the florite will catch the nutrient in the water and keep it in the substrat out of rich of algae) But first try to know what inside your water, a good indication will be the hardness too ???. Here a good link who explain few thing about substrat http://home.infinet.net/teban/substrat.htm#Introduction#Introduction Have a nice day. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de renee31477 Envoyé : March 13, 2008 12:54 AM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : [AquaticLife] plants in 10 gallon ( WAS Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light) So I have 2wpg on this 10g. I so far have the following planted/established in there java fern java moss 3 small varieties of swords a large anubia on a log (with java fern) What else can grow well in a 2-3 wpg tank with flourite substrate? I was thinking of something with height as a background plant Also, should I really need to add liquid ferts (Im using flourish comprehensive once a week and excel every other day) if I have flourite and an adequate fish load? LFS guy told me that flourish comprehensive really isnt as comprehensive as they say.. so far I only have a betta in there, but Im in the process of deciding what else to put in. thanks Renee [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26491	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] plants in 10 gallon ( WAS Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Ligh

Renee, for the 2-3 wpg you can use any plants you like, just make sure to have many who grow fast, ad place them first, after you can add the one who grow slower. Adding excel will be good but pay attention excel do not do well on plant without a stomata and on other plants too, here a small list of plant non compatible with excel : Anacharis Vallinéria Vallisneria americana Vallisneria sp Egeria densa Riccia Pellia and any other liverworts Note than in my tank I use excel with vallisneria with no problem at half dose, but I introduce excel gradually. For your fertilizer, are you living I a city, if you can call the city and have the annual report of the elements contain in your water, it will be the best thing to do, often the water have a lot of nutrient for the plants, so you adjust your fertilizer with the result. If your water contains what you need, you just make more frequent water change to rebuild the nutrient. Florite do not contain to much nutrient it’s more on iron. But florite is high in CEC ( it’s means than the florite will catch the nutrient in the water and keep it in the substrat out of rich of algae) But first try to know what inside your water, a good indication will be the hardness too ???. Here a good link who explain few thing about substrat http://home.infinet.net/teban/substrat.htm#Introduction#Introduction Have a nice day. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de renee31477 Envoyé : March 13, 2008 12:54 AM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : [AquaticLife] plants in 10 gallon ( WAS Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light) So I have 2wpg on this 10g. I so far have the following planted/established in there java fern java moss 3 small varieties of swords a large anubia on a log (with java fern) What else can grow well in a 2-3 wpg tank with flourite substrate? I was thinking of something with height as a background plant Also, should I really need to add liquid ferts (Im using flourish comprehensive once a week and excel every other day) if I have flourite and an adequate fish load? LFS guy told me that flourish comprehensive really isnt as comprehensive as they say.. so far I only have a betta in there, but Im in the process of deciding what else to put in. thanks Renee [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26492	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

Ric, It appears that I missed this post of yours when I last replied to your previous one. I see no further reasoning in debating this issue further since its obvious that both of our methods will and has worked. My original part in this thread was intended as support for Lenny's 3 WPG mention (which I still maintain), meant for the many ordinary hobbyists on the Group who grow ordinary plants via ordinary methods -- and not for such specialty aquarists such as yourself who prefer to grow their plants via extraordinary (high-tech) methods, using nothing but the latest technology which, although advanced, is not really needed. For the benefit of the ordinary beginner hobbyists on this Group, I feel it best to keep matters as simple as possible if they're only trying to grow plants in an "ordinary" manner such as using plain gravel as a substrate. The odds are they may not yet know what CO2 injection or laterite is, and if they were confronted with them, they may feel intimidated by these things if its suggested that these things are necessary to grow plants, when in fact they're not needed. What is "simple" for you for your plants may not be as simple for the beginner hobbyist who is still trying to establish a well maintained tank for their fish. Before I go any further, I would just like to point out that it was not my intention to go into how much "experience" either of us have, or how many tanks we maintain. I had stated that I wished you hadn't gone there as any manner of this type of conversation can be viewed as being tacky in a braggadocio way (not my intention). My response to this was only to show you that no matter how much experience one may think they have, there is always someone else who may have more (and of course there are a lot more experienced hobbyists than I; always something to learn). Experiences are never the same though since there's so much out there to learn, and I do recognize your's with the high-tech portion of growing. Too, length of time (while a valueable tool) or the number of tanks maintained does not directly impact one's knowledge or experience proportionately. Much of that can only come with intensity of enthusiasm one has to gain this experience -- which cannot be measured. The suggestion of Lenny's, to use 2 13 Watt compact bulbs in a 10 gallon tank hood, as you're agreeing with comes close to the 3 WPG rule anyway; actually 2.6 WPG (may need longer duration time). When this ruling was first established, there was no such thing as a "compact 13 Watt bulb;" the minimum size fluorescent bulb back in those years was 18 Watts, and the minimum size incandescent aquarium bulbs were 15 Watts -- with 2 sockets in the 10 gallon reflectors (for a minimum of 30 Watts). While as we know, every tank is somewhat different from the next, this worked extremely well in growing plants for many, many decades with no more chance of getting algae than any of today's unlearned hobbyists' chances of getting it, when used along with the general recommendation of an average 8 hour per day duration. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natural Aquarium" <naquarium@...> wrote: > > > Ray, We can debate about our technique for the next 10 years, and no one > will have the only truth about it. Like many other aspect of this > hobby, they are 1000 of way to do thing good and of course millions of > way to kill plants and fish. For me what is important is to find a way > to keep it simple, for the reason than for months I can pass 80 hours in > my tanks, but others months I'm less available. I will never use the > method of Tom Barr to dose an aquarium, he measure fertilizer and add a > small amount of them daily, and at the end of the week he change 50% of > the water to make sure you don't have build up of fertilizer, that's > simply too much work. I don't like also to use my method of soil and no > filter in a show tank, of course it's less maintenance, but the water is > yellow , you have biofilm on the surface of the water, even if the > plants and the fish are in haven, it's not looking clean enough to put > in a lounge. For come back on the question about the 10 gal. I think the > suggestion of Lenny to put 2 compact bulb of 13watts is the best in that > case, it's cheap and easy to do. I will even try it in a 10 gal. with > this type of cover, ( usually my tank are in row in shelf with 4 feet > shop light over them, with a mixture of daylight and grolux, cheap and > very efficient) It gone made 26 watts, if she start the tank with a lot > of fast growing plants, it will be ok, just make sure to now add > chemical with soluble iron and phosphate. Many plants don't need a lot, > so in that case I will put tab of fertilizer only around the plants who > need more. Seachem florish tab are very good. > > RIC > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26493	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : RE : RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

I will try to not get to much in light engineering here, as you said we have to keep it simple . but, something important is missing, you have to choose also a good 13 watts, plants do not need yellow light they need red and blue. ( but contrary as we can expect they do not too bad with green) Watts , or lux means nothing to a plants, a plants need red and blue, so even if you put a 100 watts with no red in it the plants will grow more with a 10 watts with a lot of it in it. So Renee make sure too buy a cool or day ( lot of green) light. Stay away from the warm yellow tube. As for the 3WPG, I show pics of my result with tank at less that 1.5 wpg, ( but honestly my tube put more energy per watts, than the plant need , compare to the tube sell at home depot*****) I can show you more pics, actually I can fill the photo album of it, pics take in my tank with no tech at all. If you consult Ronda Wilson , she will tell you than she achieve same results in tank with only gravel, no filter no eater, so no tech at all but a lot of water change. I use also her method in some tank, actually I try many many different type of approach, it’s what it’s all about this hobby,, experiment and more experiment. I will not argue with you on breeding, I have no experience, but I can certainly said than with the time I learn how to grow plants. And they grow faster at 3 wpg and more , but it’s not a requirement, especially In a small 10 gal. When people don’t know what to do with the plants they add more light and fertilizer. Me I add only fertilizer when the plants ask for it, ( change in the leaves) ***** I also use a lot of tube from home depot, I just increase from 1,5 to 2 wpg -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Raymond Wetzel Envoyé : March 13, 2008 7:27 AM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE : RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light Ric, It appears that I missed this post of yours when I last replied to your previous one. I see no further reasoning in debating this issue further since its obvious that both of our methods will and has worked. My original part in this thread was intended as support for Lenny's 3 WPG mention (which I still maintain), meant for the many ordinary hobbyists on the Group who grow ordinary plants via ordinary methods -- and not for such specialty aquarists such as yourself who prefer to grow their plants via extraordinary (high-tech) methods, using nothing but the latest technology which, although advanced, is not really needed. For the benefit of the ordinary beginner hobbyists on this Group, I feel it best to keep matters as simple as possible if they're only trying to grow plants in an "ordinary" manner such as using plain gravel as a substrate. The odds are they may not yet know what CO2 injection or laterite is, and if they were confronted with them, they may feel intimidated by these things if its suggested that these things are necessary to grow plants, when in fact they're not needed. What is "simple" for you for your plants may not be as simple for the beginner hobbyist who is still trying to establish a well maintained tank for their fish. Before I go any further, I would just like to point out that it was not my intention to go into how much "experience" either of us have, or how many tanks we maintain. I had stated that I wished you hadn't gone there as any manner of this type of conversation can be viewed as being tacky in a braggadocio way (not my intention). My response to this was only to show you that no matter how much experience one may think they have, there is always someone else who may have more (and of course there are a lot more experienced hobbyists than I; always something to learn). Experiences are never the same though since there's so much out there to learn, and I do recognize your's with the high-tech portion of growing. Too, length of time (while a valueable tool) or the number of tanks maintained does not directly impact one's knowledge or experience proportionately. Much of that can only come with intensity of enthusiasm one has to gain this experience -- which cannot be measured. The suggestion of Lenny's, to use 2 13 Watt compact bulbs in a 10 gallon tank hood, as you're agreeing with comes close to the 3 WPG rule anyway; actually 2.6 WPG (may need longer duration time). When this ruling was first established, there was no such thing as a "compact 13 Watt bulb;" the minimum size fluorescent bulb back in those years was 18 Watts, and the minimum size incandescent aquarium bulbs were 15 Watts -- with 2 sockets in the 10 gallon reflectors (for a minimum of 30 Watts). While as we know, every tank is somewhat different from the next, this worked extremely well in growing plants for many, many decades with no more chance of getting algae than any of today's unlearned hobbyists' chances of getting it, when used along with the general recommendation of an average 8 hour per day duration. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Natural Aquarium" <naquarium@...> wrote: > > > Ray, We can debate about our technique for the next 10 years, and no one > will have the only truth about it. Like many other aspect of this > hobby, they are 1000 of way to do thing good and of course millions of > way to kill plants and fish. For me what is important is to find a way > to keep it simple, for the reason than for months I can pass 80 hours in > my tanks, but others months I'm less available. I will never use the > method of Tom Barr to dose an aquarium, he measure fertilizer and add a > small amount of them daily, and at the end of the week he change 50% of > the water to make sure you don't have build up of fertilizer, that's > simply too much work. I don't like also to use my method of soil and no > filter in a show tank, of course it's less maintenance, but the water is > yellow , you have biofilm on the surface of the water, even if the > plants and the fish are in haven, it's not looking clean enough to put > in a lounge. For come back on the question about the 10 gal. I think the > suggestion of Lenny to put 2 compact bulb of 13watts is the best in that > case, it's cheap and easy to do. I will even try it in a 10 gal. with > this type of cover, ( usually my tank are in row in shelf with 4 feet > shop light over them, with a mixture of daylight and grolux, cheap and > very efficient) It gone made 26 watts, if she start the tank with a lot > of fast growing plants, it will be ok, just make sure to now add > chemical with soluble iron and phosphate. Many plants don't need a lot, > so in that case I will put tab of fertilizer only around the plants who > need more. Seachem florish tab are very good. > > RIC > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26494	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: My 220 gal. low light tank

Thanks Deb I just add 2 more pics with 2 x 75 gal. I ‘m using for breeding my koi angels, with also very low light -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Debra Envoyé : March 12, 2008 6:01 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : [AquaticLife] Re: My 220 gal. low light tank Ric: What a beautiful tank garden you created. Thank you for sharing. Deb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26495	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray

Ric, The choice of what fish you want to breed has many aspects, many of them personal and many of them practical. For starters, for best and easiest success, you should go with fish that are best suited to the water you're using (unless you don't mind the extra effort involved in constantly altering your water). Then, you will always have the best results when working with fish that you particulary like to maintain -- that's a personal part of it. On top of that, you need to know how much in demand the fish are in order to get an idea of how marketable they'll be when you raise them. Secondary to these are things like your present tank sizes and/or numbers of them, and also the environments you prefer to raise fish in. Lastly, but still quite worthy of consideration, is how valueable the fish are (how much money per piece each fish will bring); you will not get rich on breeding fish, but you can do nicely if you work at it -- although you have to enjoy it too at the same time. Once it becomes too much of a business, its no longer a hobby. Many of us breeders are hobbyists at heart, which is what it really takes to succeed. I could suggest any number of different fish species, but it really comes down to what fish you want to rear. Fortunately, your neutral, soft water leaves a lot of options. So many fish will fit right into these parameters, and although its preferred not to change it if you don't have to (especially in trying to maintain more acidity), you can easily add to the mineral content without needing to increase the pH to accommodate many other species. It does sound as if you'd prefer not only to breed fish, but to raise the resulting fry in well planted tanks. Angelfish, such as what you have already tried, can be raised in planted tanks although it will take a lot more work than raising them in bare-bottom tanks. Not only is it harder to keep the bottom clean, but you'll need to be even more dilligent with water changing which as I gather is something you prefer not to do when the main focus is in raising plants. As for your Koi Angel parents wanting to kill off every other fish in the tank, if raising Angels is in your interest this pair should not have any other fish in the tank -- they should have the tank to themselves. With reading over your post, it seems like you're main objective is only for the enjoyment of raising fish in your planted tanks in cohabitation with the breeders. With this in mind, the field of candidates promptly gets narrowed down considerably as the natural tendancy of most fish is to devour any other smaller fish; most fish are opportunists, even if they're mostly herbivores, and will eat anything else that will fit in their mouths as increasing their protein intake. I understand your reluctance for larger fish, but as for aggressiveness, this can vary depending on many factors (the species, the amount of room, the state of the fish in breeding or not, the amount of plant or other cover in the tank, etc.). I'm throwing these issues out not to skirt the issue, but for you to consider since only you know the conditions you can supply these fish with (you may be able to come up with species much sooner than I can). With your concern over elevated nutrients (phosphates, etc.), it appears as though you'd be better breeding fish which do not have large spawns (that precludes many) or that have spawns of only a moderate size with only the fittest surviving (the majority being eaten), which will still give you an increasing population. The Guppies you mentioned would be one candidate if you were to add some crushed coral to the substrate (or add to the filter, or filter bag within the tank). Even these fish will eat any young they come across, but you'll have enough constantly surviving to eventually make a nice display. A similar fish, but not having the hugh finnage as fancy Guppies, is the Endler's Livebearer which although doing best in harder water, will do fine in your present conditions. For your present water conditions, I could suggest egglayers -- for one idea either Dwarf Cichlids (Apistogramma), or something like Badis Badis (or even Dario dario), all nicely colored and interesting and although mildly aggressive during spawning in the vicinity of their spawning sites, would not be a threat to their tankmates when housed in larger aquariums. Most egglayers such as Tetras, Rasboras or Barbs will eat their eggs at the earliest opportunity if kept with them, although in a well planted tank, a few are always favored to survive. This brings us to another nice group of candidates, the Rainbowfish, but here again you'll need to harden the water somewhat. A drawback with some species such as this may be the special feeding requirements in raising the miniscule fry. I'm sure some of the easier Cory catfish (albino Aeneus, for instance) would work well in your water if you'd like to try a bottom fish. There are a good number of Killiefish which would establish a population with fry in varying stages after a while, still with some (many?) being eaten, but in large well-planted tanks will populate nicely. Among these you might consider are some of the West African species like Aphyosemion striatum or Fundulopanchax gardneri. There are a few non-Rift Lake African mouthbrooder Cichlids living in some of the West African crater lakes which are quite peaceful and would multiply well (but not excessively) due to their method of breeding. They are worth considering as they've been put on the endangered list of fish species, although still available. Your preference for both breeding and maintaining the adults in the same tank (as I understand it), narrows down the choices for success as most earnest breeding is done in a more controlled manner with removing the breeders (or eggs) after spawning). I trust this has given you at least a few ideas; feel free to inquire more if need be. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natural Aquarium" <naquarium@...> wrote: > > Ray I see a lot of answer on this and other group who are just been take > from website left and right,, that's not bad, but when I want to start a > new adventure I prefer fallow a recipe who have work for years and only > when I master it , I will try to adapt it, so nothing better than ask an > old timer .So here a question, after many years I get bored to buy > fish at the LFS, I try all of them, since a month I'm trying to figure > what king of fish I will be interested to breed, not for sale just for > fill my planted aquarium, and for fun. By the nature of my tank, I > exclude all form of large fish. I want also non aggressive fish, I try > few month ago to breed Koi Angel, I have a success with my first try, > but I discover than it was not for me, first off all the couple wants to > kill every other fish in the tank, and the fry and juvenile can not be > grow up in planted tank, they consume so much food than it rise up the > phosphates to the sky. For now I'm looking at guppy, it's interesting > the play of color you can achieve, I will have guppy for sure, but the > problem with them they are hard water fish, and many of my planted tank > will not support it, So I will setup few tank with plants who thrive in > hard water, but still I need a kind of fish who live neutral to soft > water . Small fish, any suggestion ??? > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De > la part de Raymond Wetzel > Envoyé : March 12, 2008 7:38 PM > À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Objet : Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light > > because my main interest in my > hatchery is breeding fish, although I've always enjoyed growing > plants.. Ray > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26496	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Plant Tank

I am thinking of starting a tank of just plants (mostly cuttings from my larger plants in other tanks) - no fish. Smaller tank - maybe 5 or 10 gallon. Would a tank like this (with lighting of course) need a heater (stable house temp of 70 degrees) and filter? Would the water eventually become stagnant from no movement? I would probably eventually end up adding a DIY CO2, but wondering what would happened if I didn't? Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26497	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

Lenny wrote: "You need to get the compact fluorescents that have four or six straight tubes rather than the spiral type. The spiral type are meant to replace a light bulb in a lamp so the lamp shade could still sit on the bulb. The 15W straight ones will fit in most of the hoods that have the two incandescent bulb sockets. Two 25W bulbs would be giving the tank a LOT of lighting (5WPG) so it would be best to use either one of them or two of the 15W compact fluorescent bulbs." Actually the hood I bought (All Glass brand) allowed me to add both an incandescent and a fluorescent bulb - both the screw in types. The 13 watt fluorescent bulb wasn't too thick and the newer hoods evidently allow more room than the older hoods I have dealt with. This is in reply also to Ric and Ray about too much light. Ya'll got me wondering last night about too much light/not enough light/no DIY CO2 added yet/etc. So I put one incandescent 15 watt bulb on the lower light plants side and one 13 watt fluorescent bulb on the higher light plant side!<G> I may try replacing the 15 watt incandescent bulb with another 13 watt fluorescent bulb if I notice my plants not thriving. Or maybe even switching them every so often. I will hopefully be adding some DIY CO2 to my tanks soon. My boyfriend just added them on his tanks and they seem to be helping (especially his hex which needs help because the plants are so far away from the light). Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26498	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it o

Good and long answer, I have to read it back, for narrow more the selection, I want fish who like water between 22’C and 24’c ( 70 to 76 ‘F), I prefer keep the tank not too hot, for the plants and also it produce more humidity, it’s cost more electricity, and mainly it’s less comfortable to work for me also, I will not sell them, so value is not an interest at all, I know the importance too give a special tank to a pair of angel, mine have their own 75 gal. for them. I keep only 2 couples of sturisoma with them, and the angel do not attract them, not yet but they are very yong it will change with age I’m afraid, but I like too have fish like oto in my tank, and angel and cichlid will eat them, I develop also an interest for the shrimp, so it’s as to be fast fish, or the shrimp can catch them, of course the shrimp will not be in the breeding tank, or else I will never have fry. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Raymond Wetzel Envoyé : March 13, 2008 9:13 AM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : [AquaticLife] Re: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray Ric, The choice of what fish you want to breed has many aspects, many of them personal and many of them practical. For starters, for best and easiest success, you should go with fish that are best suited to the water you're using (unless you don't mind the extra effort involved in constantly altering your water). Then, you will always have the best results when working with fish that you particulary like to maintain -- that's a personal part of it. On top of that, you need to know how much in demand the fish are in order to get an idea of how marketable they'll be when you raise them. Secondary to these are things like your present tank sizes and/or numbers of them, and also the environments you prefer to raise fish in. Lastly, but still quite worthy of consideration, is how valueable the fish are (how much money per piece each fish will bring); you will not get rich on breeding fish, but you can do nicely if you work at it -- although you have to enjoy it too at the same time. Once it becomes too much of a business, its no longer a hobby. Many of us breeders are hobbyists at heart, which is what it really takes to succeed. I could suggest any number of different fish species, but it really comes down to what fish you want to rear. Fortunately, your neutral, soft water leaves a lot of options. So many fish will fit right into these parameters, and although its preferred not to change it if you don't have to (especially in trying to maintain more acidity), you can easily add to the mineral content without needing to increase the pH to accommodate many other species. It does sound as if you'd prefer not only to breed fish, but to raise the resulting fry in well planted tanks. Angelfish, such as what you have already tried, can be raised in planted tanks although it will take a lot more work than raising them in bare-bottom tanks. Not only is it harder to keep the bottom clean, but you'll need to be even more dilligent with water changing which as I gather is something you prefer not to do when the main focus is in raising plants. As for your Koi Angel parents wanting to kill off every other fish in the tank, if raising Angels is in your interest this pair should not have any other fish in the tank -- they should have the tank to themselves. With reading over your post, it seems like you're main objective is only for the enjoyment of raising fish in your planted tanks in cohabitation with the breeders. With this in mind, the field of candidates promptly gets narrowed down considerably as the natural tendancy of most fish is to devour any other smaller fish; most fish are opportunists, even if they're mostly herbivores, and will eat anything else that will fit in their mouths as increasing their protein intake. I understand your reluctance for larger fish, but as for aggressiveness, this can vary depending on many factors (the species, the amount of room, the state of the fish in breeding or not, the amount of plant or other cover in the tank, etc.). I'm throwing these issues out not to skirt the issue, but for you to consider since only you know the conditions you can supply these fish with (you may be able to come up with species much sooner than I can). With your concern over elevated nutrients (phosphates, etc.), it appears as though you'd be better breeding fish which do not have large spawns (that precludes many) or that have spawns of only a moderate size with only the fittest surviving (the majority being eaten), which will still give you an increasing population. The Guppies you mentioned would be one candidate if you were to add some crushed coral to the substrate (or add to the filter, or filter bag within the tank). Even these fish will eat any young they come across, but you'll have enough constantly surviving to eventually make a nice display. A similar fish, but not having the hugh finnage as fancy Guppies, is the Endler's Livebearer which although doing best in harder water, will do fine in your present conditions. For your present water conditions, I could suggest egglayers -- for one idea either Dwarf Cichlids (Apistogramma), or something like Badis Badis (or even Dario dario), all nicely colored and interesting and although mildly aggressive during spawning in the vicinity of their spawning sites, would not be a threat to their tankmates when housed in larger aquariums. Most egglayers such as Tetras, Rasboras or Barbs will eat their eggs at the earliest opportunity if kept with them, although in a well planted tank, a few are always favored to survive. This brings us to another nice group of candidates, the Rainbowfish, but here again you'll need to harden the water somewhat. A drawback with some species such as this may be the special feeding requirements in raising the miniscule fry. I'm sure some of the easier Cory catfish (albino Aeneus, for instance) would work well in your water if you'd like to try a bottom fish. There are a good number of Killiefish which would establish a population with fry in varying stages after a while, still with some (many?) being eaten, but in large well-planted tanks will populate nicely. Among these you might consider are some of the West African species like Aphyosemion striatum or Fundulopanchax gardneri. There are a few non-Rift Lake African mouthbrooder Cichlids living in some of the West African crater lakes which are quite peaceful and would multiply well (but not excessively) due to their method of breeding. They are worth considering as they've been put on the endangered list of fish species, although still available. Your preference for both breeding and maintaining the adults in the same tank (as I understand it), narrows down the choices for success as most earnest breeding is done in a more controlled manner with removing the breeders (or eggs) after spawning). I trust this has given you at least a few ideas; feel free to inquire more if need be. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Natural Aquarium" <naquarium@...> wrote: > > Ray I see a lot of answer on this and other group who are just been take > from website left and right,, that's not bad, but when I want to start a > new adventure I prefer fallow a recipe who have work for years and only > when I master it , I will try to adapt it, so nothing better than ask an > old timer .So here a question, after many years I get bored to buy > fish at the LFS, I try all of them, since a month I'm trying to figure > what king of fish I will be interested to breed, not for sale just for > fill my planted aquarium, and for fun. By the nature of my tank, I > exclude all form of large fish. I want also non aggressive fish, I try > few month ago to breed Koi Angel, I have a success with my first try, > but I discover than it was not for me, first off all the couple wants to > kill every other fish in the tank, and the fry and juvenile can not be > grow up in planted tank, they consume so much food than it rise up the > phosphates to the sky. For now I'm looking at guppy, it's interesting > the play of color you can achieve, I will have guppy for sure, but the > problem with them they are hard water fish, and many of my planted tank > will not support it, So I will setup few tank with plants who thrive in > hard water, but still I need a kind of fish who live neutral to soft > water . Small fish, any suggestion ??? > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] De > la part de Raymond Wetzel > Envoyé : March 12, 2008 7:38 PM > À : AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Objet : Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light > > because my main interest in my > hatchery is breeding fish, although I've always enjoyed growing > plants.. Ray > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26499	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

Hi Steve, While I'm not really sure of the substrate mixture's origin, having managed Tricker's Water Gardens (which became Waterford Gardens) in Saddle River, NJ as I mentioned, I know this is the same mixture that William Tricker first used before his son Charles took over -- and the mixture I used there when propagating water lilies, bog and aquatic plants. I suspect though, that this same mixture may go back to the 18th century at a time when Claude Monet painted the famous landscapes of his water gardens outside of Paris (and others), and was carried over by W. Tricker. After all, why try to fix something if it isn't broken. "Truly a place of dreams" . . . yes, it was a great place to work at everyday, and one that fit right in with my interests. I don't need to tell you what the environment was like, seeing as you've been there. After I found myself following in Dr. Innes' footsteps as a career printer, I (gleefully) took that job as manager of the Water Gardens for a number of years after I retired from printing. When I first started printing it wasn't much different than what William Innes or Augie Roth did in producing the printed page as it was all letterpress with either foundry (hand) type, Ludlow and/or Linotype if you wanted to set a line of type, but this is O.T. I AM impressed with your building of your first pond at 11 years old though. That's amazingly interesting and I'm glad you mentioned it. As for the lighting on the 10 gallon tanks of those early days, I presume it was really up to the shopkeeper as to what he wanted to sell you and what he would install in those reflectors, unless you made the choice yourself -- they didn't come with bulbs already in them. With tanks anything smaller than 10 gallons, only a single socket was provided and you could use either a 25 Watt (for a 7 1/2 gallon tank) or a 15 Watt (for a 5 or 5 1/2 gallon tank - they had both). But as you know, there were 2 sockets provided for the 10 gallon reflector, so using 2 25-Watt bulbs could give you algae if you kept them on too long. That Golden Age of Fishkeeping sure does bring back memories though, of nothing but the good kind as everything was so progressive back then with new fish and new ideas being introduced almost monthly, even though it was far from being the beginnings of the hobby. The hobby was well established by that time, but we had editors and authors like Al Klee and Alan Fletcher who kept us up with all the latest developings in the hobby -- and there were MANY. Incidentally Steve, what particularly comes to mind for some reason at the moment beyond me when discussing these 10 gallon tanks and reflectors, are those "marble frame" tanks with the scribbly white marking; I can picture them right now (LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I was reading your note, ray, and your mention of the substrate mixture stirred some memories, and then you stated it was Tricker's. Heck, you did not even give me enough time to wend through the memory banks to determine the source on my own <g>. It is a good mixture. I remember going over to Tricker's in, I think it was, Saddle River, NJ when I built my first pond at 11 years old. Truly a place of dreams. I've had ponds off and on since then, depending on my residence, and I have also been a care taker of ponds, mainly for a friend of mine in Massachusetts, who was confined to a wheelchair. > > As far as the lighting on the 10 gallon tanks, I seem to recall a number of them that came with 25 watt incandescent bulbs, while I also remember seeing 15 watt bulbs in them. I don't know if this is a trick of the mind, and I may have been the one to put 25 watt bulbs in when the smaller wattage ones burned out. I did always seem to have better success with plants in the smaller tanks, but it took years for me to put two and two together and realize it was the level of the light in the smaller tanks not the other things I thought it might be such as the amount of waste the fish produced. Mind you, those who are reading this, this was back in the late 50's and early 60's, the end of what is referred to by many as the Golden Age of Fishkeeping. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light > > Ric, I've seen Tom Barr's articles in TFH from time to time, but > never had the inclination to visit his web site which you mentioned, > so I don't know all that he recommends. I'm not at all into high > tech planted aquariums, I only know what works and has worked for > ages. The higher intensity light (of 3 Watts per gallon), as you > would call it, allows the plants to take full advantage of the > available nutrients up to a point . . . and that point in low tech > aquariums is any and all of the relatively little amount of nutrients > available, when compared to using flourite, laterite, CO2 and all the > rest which have proven to be unnecessary, even though quite helpful > and most beneficial with "high tech plantings." > > I haven't frequented Tom's site mainly because my main interest in my > hatchery is breeding fish, although I've always enjoyed growing > plants. Belonging to the Aquatic Gardeners Association, I'm well > aware of the changes being made lately, but that's not to say that > good plants cannot be grown in more simpler manners as had always > been done in years past. I can appreciate high tech plantings and > can respect the methods used to grow a lot of those red varieties > (I'm one to enjoy looking at these types, even if I'm satisfied with > growing greens). > > I see you're a relative newcomer, although 30 years in the hobby is > somewhat respectable. Some of us have been in the hobby a good while > longer (I've enjoyed it for about 60 years now), and have experienced > a lot more of what has gone on and what has progressed over the > years -- and what methods have continually succeeded. Yes, as I > mentioned, hobbyists have been using soils of different mixes in > their tanks, under the gravel, probably as long as they've kept fish > in aquaria even though it may not have been standard practice. As > you point out, it can get messy when replantings are needed. A good, > but fine, layer of mulm (fish waste) has always been known to be one > of the best and most complete sources of plant nutrients since the > hobby started -- this is really nothing new, but there needs to be a > proper balance to allow the fish to prosper as well. I'm well aware > of Diane's book and her "method," but see nothing new in it. > > BTW, while as it seems, 80 tanks will keep you busy, many of us have > 100 or 150. I have more than 80 tanks myself, although I'll admit > most of them are not planted (or sparsely planted) since fish > breeding is my main priority. While I can't agree with your water > changing regimen (or lack of it), for differing priorities, I > certainly support the notion that plants can greatly filter and > purify the water. > > As for the plants in the hobby at the time of the 3 Watt rule, except > for the more exotic reddish varieties, I'm sure there were a lot more > different species of plants in the hobby then, than you would > suspect. There were at least as many different plant Genera > represented, if not having all of the newer Species introductions of > them all, with many having the similar requirements as their > newer "cousins." Growing hugh Echino's 50 or more years ago, with > the same methods I've described, was one of my main enjoyments also, > as I see its been one of yours. Speaking of hugh Echino's, I > remember once seeing one Echino that all but filled a 100 gallon tank > (except for the extreme ends of this tank), in a now-defunct store in > New York City called Aquarium Stock Company. Up until that time, I > never thought they could grow so large; I'm sure it had to be a wild > specimen that was brought in. It was of the species once known as > intermedius. > > Since you at least use an enriched substrate for your plants at least > some of the time, you might want to try a mixture of 60% clay, 30% > top soil and 10% sand. This simple formula will work work wonders > for most any variety of aquatic plants. There's just enough sand to > looosen up the clay and the top soil is loaded with nutrients, yet > still held together by the clay. I used to use this commercially in > water gardening until I retired; its an old formula used by William > Tricker when he first started his water lily business in the 1920's, > and the same one I used when I later managed that business. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natural Aquarium" > <naquarium@> wrote: > > > > Ray, Seriously, you don't know Tom Barr ? Everyone who is active > a > > little bit in forum on plants on internet know him, If you > subscribe to > > the TFH you will see is conical time to time too. He is a leader > in > > plants , he own a master in plants, and know he is finishing a PhD > in > > that domain, he publish a lot of article in magazine, He is famous > for > > is technique of dosing fertilizer in high tech planted aquarium, but > > even him teach to people to never use more than 2wpg in a tank > without > > CO2 > > > > I have aquarium since more than 30 years, when I start I use soil, > and > > still use it in a 20 gal or 10 gal. tank, now than Diana Walstad > publish > > a book ( an excellent one everyone should have it) on how to use > soil in > > tank, they call it her method, but you know as me than people put > soil > > in their tank since over 100 years, laterite and leonardite are > just > > been use recently to replace the soil. The leonardite is mainly > carbon, > > so it's bring carbon to the plants as replacement for the missing > Co2 > > injection in low tech tank. I have only 1 tank with CO2, I'm not too > > much attracted by red plants, I prefer it all greens, with subtitle > > variation. The 3 watts rules was stated at the time they know only > few > > about plants, now with the better spectrum tube we know that's it's > the > > PAR who is important not the wpg. The new tubes are more efficient. > So > > you need less wpg. > > > > > > Me I have a principal, I use soil in a tank where I know I will not > > rearrange the plants, ( too messy) in my show tank, in the house I > > replace the soil with laterite and leonardite or peat, and I > generally > > don't use CO2, I use a medium size gravel, the pop of the fish is > the > > fertilizer, it go between the gravel, I keep only small fish, but in > > large amount, and I feed enough, the extra food feed the plants, if > you > > read the book of Walstad, you will discover than the fish food > contain > > all the ingredient the plants need. I made my water change only when > > need ( every 1, 3 6 months, it's depend) ) I don't have filter in > many > > tank, the plants are my filter. I keep the surface not agitated to > not > > loss CO2 ( especially in the tank without injection) > > > > Where I agree with you is in some tank I use plain gravel only with > > Florish Tab fertilizer in it , and I grow very huge echino with > success > > , and those tank have filter with a lot of turbulence at the > surface. So > > it's make me thing sometime than just give water too a plant and it > will > > grow. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26500	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet but a warning, incandescent *will* heat up your water in a small tank so be cautious... Carmen On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Paula Brown <browngip@...> wrote: > Lenny wrote: "You need to get the compact fluorescents that have four or > six straight tubes rather than the spiral type. The spiral type are meant to > replace a light bulb in a lamp so the lamp shade could still sit on the > bulb. The 15W straight ones will fit in most of the hoods that have the two > incandescent bulb sockets. Two 25W bulbs would be giving the tank a LOT of > lighting (5WPG) so it would be best to use either one of them or two of the > 15W compact fluorescent bulbs." > > Actually the hood I bought (All Glass brand) allowed me to add both an > incandescent and a fluorescent bulb - both the screw in types. The 13 watt > fluorescent bulb wasn't too thick and the newer hoods evidently allow more > room than the older hoods I have dealt with. This is in reply also to Ric > and Ray about too much light. Ya'll got me wondering last night about too > much light/not enough light/no DIY CO2 added yet/etc. So I put one > incandescent 15 watt bulb on the lower light plants side and one 13 watt > fluorescent bulb on the higher light plant side!<G> > > I may try replacing the 15 watt incandescent bulb with another 13 watt > fluorescent bulb if I notice my plants not thriving. Or maybe even switching > them every so often. I will hopefully be adding some DIY CO2 to my tanks > soon. My boyfriend just added them on his tanks and they seem to be helping > (especially his hex which needs help because the plants are so far away from > the light). > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > > -- Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com Ontario, Canada [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26501	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] 10 Gallon Hood/Light

Hi Paula , I add in the photo section under naquarium, 2 pics I just take few minute ago, I use a 9w cool white bulb, you will see it’s a much brighter and white than the incandescent 15 watts on the other side, when Lenny said about using a 13 watts I don’t notice than they are also 9 watts, ( I use real tube in my tank ) but I will give a try to a combination of 2 x 9W cool white, what is important is not only the watts but the spectrum, a 9 w cool white will grow plants probably better than a 25 watts soft white. You can use 2X9 watts, and latter increase to 2x13 when you will add the CO2, What is important is to let the tank settle , and the plants make their root before put more light, it give less chance to the algae. Also pay attention if you make your own DIY bottle, they can explode, especially if use with a air stone, who will eventually clog. Hagen and other company have cheap kit, more safe and easy to use, and not too much expensive, if you take consideration than you have also a diffuser ( reactor). As for their expensive yeast, you can do like me, just buy regular one in grocery store. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Paula Brown Envoyé : March 13, 2008 9:57 AM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : [AquaticLife] 10 Gallon Hood/Light Lenny wrote: "You need to get the compact fluorescents that have four or six straight tubes rather than the spiral type. The spiral type are meant to replace a light bulb in a lamp so the lamp shade could still sit on the bulb. The 15W straight ones will fit in most of the hoods that have the two incandescent bulb sockets. Two 25W bulbs would be giving the tank a LOT of lighting (5WPG) so it would be best to use either one of them or two of the 15W compact fluorescent bulbs." Actually the hood I bought (All Glass brand) allowed me to add both an incandescent and a fluorescent bulb - both the screw in types. The 13 watt fluorescent bulb wasn't too thick and the newer hoods evidently allow more room than the older hoods I have dealt with. This is in reply also to Ric and Ray about too much light. Ya'll got me wondering last night about too much light/not enough light/no DIY CO2 added yet/etc. So I put one incandescent 15 watt bulb on the lower light plants side and one 13 watt fluorescent bulb on the higher light plant side!<G> I may try replacing the 15 watt incandescent bulb with another 13 watt fluorescent bulb if I notice my plants not thriving. Or maybe even switching them every so often. I will hopefully be adding some DIY CO2 to my tanks soon. My boyfriend just added them on his tanks and they seem to be helping (especially his hex which needs help because the plants are so far away from the light). Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26502	From: Amy	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Update on the Guppie who swims with "Sharks"

Well she has been swimming down in around the big fish with no concern for her safety. Maybe somebody misled her into believing that Scats and Puffers were vegetarians. The new guy still stays hidden up in the top of the tank. I am pretty sure that I can now name them. I am trying to get them to stand still long enough to take a photo of the big girl swimming side by side with the puffers, but they just aren't cooperating. So now I need help naming these guppies who swim with sharks. The names of the other fish in that tank are: GS Puff "Puff", F8 Puff "Nugget", Scats "Jeckle and Hyde", Night Goby's "Bonnie and Clyde" Any good suggestions for the new names?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26503	From: michelle_brown134	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Do To Issues Beyond My Control, I Must Leave

Hi All, I have really enjoyed this group and animals are still my life but, for now I must leave. I am sorry, goodbye.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26504	From: scrapbookjulia	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: HELP!! Baffled by Fish deaths

Hi everyone, I guess I'm sort of new here. Haven't posted but I've been lurking around trying to learn as much as I can. I'm having tank issues with my 50g tall square tank. It has been running for about 2.5 months, cycled just fine. Levels are all normal and consistent but this week I lost all 4 Angels, 3 Von Rios, and a swordtail with in 48 hours. The first day it was the 2 smaller (quarter size) angels and the von Rios, so I though that it was the bigger angels picking on them (they are about the size of a half dollar - so not huge). But the next day the other 2 were floating too and the swordtail. There is no disease that is visible (ie: fungus, finrot, worms etc). I didn't see any strange behavior, everyone has been eating just fine. I'm stumped. Any advice would be appreciated. I have remaining in the tank (all very small sized): 2 swordtails 3 tiny ottos 3 balloon mollies 4 german(?) rams 1 clown pleco - another tiny guy - about 1.5 inches. Thanks! Julia

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26505	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Do To Issues Beyond My Control, I Must Leave

You don't have to leave the group. You can just go to your membership management page and set yourself to "No Email". That way, if you ever have an issue pop up, you can still sign into the group and post from the website or just send an email to the group. You would have to go back and change your "No Email" status or just read replies on the groups message pages. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of michelle_brown134 Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Do To Issues Beyond My Control, I Must Leave Hi All, I have really enjoyed this group and animals are still my life but, for now I must leave. I am sorry, goodbye. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26506	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Do To Issues Beyond My Control, I Must Leave

I guess she left before your message arrived on the board :-s Nim -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: 13 March 2008 16:43 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Do To Issues Beyond My Control, I Must Leave You don't have to leave the group. You can just go to your membership management page and set yourself to "No Email". That way, if you ever have an issue pop up, you can still sign into the group and post from the website or just send an email to the group. You would have to go back and change your "No Email" status or just read replies on the groups message pages. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of michelle_brown134 Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Do To Issues Beyond My Control, I Must Leave Hi All, I have really enjoyed this group and animals are still my life but, for now I must leave. I am sorry, goodbye. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26507	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Help: red/purple slime algae

It's not an algae,it's actually a bacteria (Cynobacter) I find with my clients, they get it from OVERFEEDING ! I get them to stop feeding as heavy and a little help, it goes away. This is what I do, first vacuum any I can out replaced with fresh saltwater. I add 1 oz coconut or good grade carbon per 10 gallons. 1 pouch of Phos-Zorb per 50 gallons. Nim is right about current being a factor, but on the reefs I set up current is not the problem, it's over feeding. I run some reef at 30-40X turnover an hour. Another thing is very important, always top off with Kalwasser water, and keeping the Calcium levels up in the 500+ range. I run tanks 600 +. Only add Kalk water in the morning, when you pH is at its lowest and NEWER add it directly to the tank. Get you a trash can add the kalk to the ro water in the trashcan , stir it very well, then wait 24 hours to use it , then just use a gallon jug to dip off the top water in the trashcan and add to your aquarium to top off. You can continue to do the same thing everyday or so to keep the aquarium full. When you have used up your the Kalk-water (be carefull not to stir up the kalk on the bottom of the trashcan,dip slowly near the bottom so you dont get the actual kalk (lime) powder into you tank, this will start red (cyno) in your tank where it settles. You can also use erythromycin to kill it, and the low does I use wont kill or interrupt your bacteria bed ether. Use 300 mg. per 50 gallons for 10 days. If you have a skimmer ,you'll have to turn it off for the duration of the treatment. This is not a long term cure, only a quick fix, to actually fix the problem, you need to find the source of the problem. Be it overfeeding, high Po4, high nitrates,low current,low calcium or your low pH top off water is the problem , you'll need to address it, or it will come back. Hope this helps! DBA Aquariums By Sissy ww.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Nimish Mathur To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help: red/purple slime algae I am still a newbie at saltwater but till now what I have experienced is that lack of water flow is the main cause for this algae to spread. Try and notice where you have strong water flow, the algae will not be there. The solution really is to get a couple of stream/wave pumps and get the flow around the rock and the gravel. If needed, manually scrap off the algae and then get the flow right immidiatly with lights off for 1 day. If the lights are off and flow is good all around, it will be difficult for it to get a foothold back on. This certainly does seem to work for me. Nim From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kathy Sent: 13 March 2008 01:52 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help: red/purple slime algae How do I get rid of this? I have never had a problem until this year. I have tried: poly ox, and several phosphate removers & mats as well as using only RO water. Any one know what causes it or what might eat it. It is covering just about everything in my reef. Thanks, Katt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26508	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP!! Baffled by Fish deaths

Whenever you have a problem in a tank, it's a good idea to do a full set of new tests and give us your numbers. Saying "it's fine" or "level and consistent" isn't enough information as there is no such thing as "fine" for all fish. What might be good for some fish could be very bad for other fish. Since your tank is only 2.5 months old, you might have just finished cycling the tank or it could still be cycling if you didn't do things properly during the cycling with fish process. It's always better to fishless cycle but I understand many people end up with fish first and then find out all about this cycling stuff. Once again, having numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH and KH go a long way in diagnosing problems. Tell us more about your tank, your filtration system, any filter additives, chemicals you use or have used in the tank, any live plants, how they are doing, etc. Your 50G tall tank will not be able to hold as many fish as a regular 50G or rather a 55G 4' long tank due to having a much lower surface area for gas exchange. With the numbers of fish you had, you would have been quickly overstocked. Remember that when stocking a tank, you MUST stock it based on the expected adult size of the fish, not the fact that they are "little" now. Your two remaining angelfish, should they survive whatever happened, will basically require the entire 50G tank to themselves with maybe a little more room for a school of smaller fish. Although the clown pleco only grows to around 4-5", they get very wide and bulky and have a lot of body mass to them so they also need a lot of water volume but you might have been able to handle a pair of angels and the clown pleco if the tank had a good overall ecology and you did weekly tank/filter maintenance. Also, I'm not familiar with "Von Rios" so give me more info about what they are. I did a Google but nothing jumped out at me except that it might be another name for Flame Tetras or some kind of breeding offshoot http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_flammeus.html so check out the pictures link on this profile and let us know if that's what you have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of scrapbookjulia Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP!! Baffled by Fish deaths Hi everyone, I guess I'm sort of new here. Haven't posted but I've been lurking around trying to learn as much as I can. I'm having tank issues with my 50g tall square tank. It has been running for about 2.5 months, cycled just fine. Levels are all normal and consistent but this week I lost all 4 Angels, 3 Von Rios, and a swordtail with in 48 hours. The first day it was the 2 smaller (quarter size) angels and the von Rios, so I though that it was the bigger angels picking on them (they are about the size of a half dollar - so not huge). But the next day the other 2 were floating too and the swordtail. There is no disease that is visible (ie: fungus, finrot, worms etc). I didn't see any strange behavior, everyone has been eating just fine. I'm stumped. Any advice would be appreciated. I have remaining in the tank (all very small sized): 2 swordtails 3 tiny ottos 3 balloon mollies 4 german(?) rams 1 clown pleco - another tiny guy - about 1.5 inches. Thanks! Julia No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26509	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Sick Betta Update

Ok so he is better but at the same time not better. I have been treating him for a week as of tomorrow. He has been getting 25% PWC, salt is now being added to his tank and treated with betta fix. He is his active self again, has never stopped eating for me, and the white stuff on the bottom of his tank which looked like whiteish feces is back to normal brown feces. Thats the better part. The bad part,his swollen red tipped fins are still swollen and red tipped, although they have stopped shrinking in size. Should I maybe change to Melafix for his treatment or stick with the bettafix? I have been testing his water, the pH is a little high, I am getting a decreaser tomorrow and add in very little, dont want to change it to quick on him, other than that his water is fine. What else can I do for him? ~Melissa ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26510	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

> Hi Anndrea, > > This site > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di sease. > html has lots of pictures and descriptions of most tropical fish diseases. GREAT SITE! Thanks!!! Considering the tank size and condition of the water, it's > likely a combination of things. Put them all in a Q-tank and start off > treatment with a broad spectrum antibiotic. Well, I started that Lifeguard stuff last night...so I don't think I can do antibiotics right now...and being the sites say velvet is a parasite, I am not sure antibiotics would help (if it is velvet). This Lifeguard stuff says it helps with parasites, infections, fungus, bacteria, and I don't remember what else. > > You will have to do daily testing and PWC's as needed to keep the ammonia > levels below 1.0 ppm and preferably below 0.5pppm since the antibiotics will > kill off any nitrifying bacteria. Can't really afford to buy enough strips to test my water daily. I took in a free tank with fish, and already have pretty much drained what little money I had buying the medicine I bought, and the test strips, and some stuff to lower ph because of the hard water here... But I can do PWCs as often as I need to...after the Lifeguard treatment stuff is over (5 days). What makes me think it may not be velvet (or at least not in the beginning stages of velvet) is that the brown does not look like dust. It is a rust color and if I had never seen these kinds of fish before, I would think it was part of their coloring. It looks like it is either internal, or at least under the slime coating. But since the Lifeguard stuff treats so many things, I am hoping it will take care of whatever it is. I also have a line on a bigger tank for them...maybe even a 20 gallon and then eventually get them a couple friends in there maybe...once I know they are healthy (I won't even put them in a bigger tank until i know they are healthy). Thanks for the info and the link...very very good site. anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26511	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

Next time you need test supplies, get a Master Test Kit. The API kit can be found for under $20.00 on Petsmart.com and the local stores will match the online prices. Other online sites have it under $15.00. It will last you at least a year or more even with frequent testing. The test strips are so much more expensive... albeit easier to use but if money is an issue, then go with the Master Test Kits with test tubes and reagent chemicals for accurate and inexpensive testing. I've never used Lifeguard so I can't comment but make sure you don't overdose and follow instructions as far as doing PWC's, etc. Hopefully they all make it. A broad spectrum antibiotic and some salt would have probably done just as well as the Lifeguard stuff but if it works, then it's worth it. If you are going to be rescuing fish/tanks, you might want to keep MelaFix and PimaFix on hand since it's inexpensive in the bigger bottles and lasts a long time. I buy the 16 oz bottle of Melafix and the 8 oz bottle of Pimafix online pretty cheap and keep it around as a first defense against minor issues that might pop up with new fish. Once you get your fish stabilized and stick to a good tank maintenance schedule, fish will stay pretty healthy after that. If you haven't opened that pH reducing stuff, I'd bring it back. It's not good to use chemicals to reduce your pH as they usually don't work right and you end up with pH swings that cause your fish major problems. There are natural ways of lowering your pH that are healthier for your tank... if you even need to lower your pH. Most of the times, it's not needed. Further, it's not good to put all them chemicals into your tanks. A simple dechlor product that treats heavy metals is all that I use. None of the stress-this and slime-that type stuff. That's all just added chemicals to your closed ecology, practically turning tanks into toxic waste sites. LOL As to Pandora's FishPalace.org site, I sent her an email last night asking if the original site will ever be back up. She had a Gmail address so hopefully it's still active since they are relatively new email addys for most people. I noticed some of the pictures did not get saved on the WayBack web archived page. I hope she had the pages saved somewhere other than her website hosting company. I'm sure many of the other forums would be glad to host her pages for free on their sites and then she could update them as needed, which won't happen on the WayBack archives. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > Hi Anndrea, > > This site > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di> sease. > html has lots of pictures and descriptions of most tropical fish diseases. GREAT SITE! Thanks!!! Considering the tank size and condition of the water, it's > likely a combination of things. Put them all in a Q-tank and start off > treatment with a broad spectrum antibiotic. Well, I started that Lifeguard stuff last night...so I don't think I can do antibiotics right now...and being the sites say velvet is a parasite, I am not sure antibiotics would help (if it is velvet). This Lifeguard stuff says it helps with parasites, infections, fungus, bacteria, and I don't remember what else. > > You will have to do daily testing and PWC's as needed to keep the ammonia > levels below 1.0 ppm and preferably below 0.5pppm since the antibiotics will > kill off any nitrifying bacteria. Can't really afford to buy enough strips to test my water daily. I took in a free tank with fish, and already have pretty much drained what little money I had buying the medicine I bought, and the test strips, and some stuff to lower ph because of the hard water here... But I can do PWCs as often as I need to...after the Lifeguard treatment stuff is over (5 days). What makes me think it may not be velvet (or at least not in the beginning stages of velvet) is that the brown does not look like dust. It is a rust color and if I had never seen these kinds of fish before, I would think it was part of their coloring. It looks like it is either internal, or at least under the slime coating. But since the Lifeguard stuff treats so many things, I am hoping it will take care of whatever it is. I also have a line on a bigger tank for them...maybe even a 20 gallon and then eventually get them a couple friends in there maybe...once I know they are healthy (I won't even put them in a bigger tank until i know they are healthy). Thanks for the info and the link...very very good site. anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26512	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: help with cory's

Hi All, I am having problems with my cory's. I have lost 3 in the past month. There are no visible signs on them to tell what's happened. Two of them I found in the java moss I keep on top of the tank. The other was floating. My water parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, @5 on nitrates and 6.5 ph. I have 15 mollies, 3 ottos, 3 pygmy gouramis and 1 male betta and 3 more surviving cory's. At first I thought they might be laying eggs in the moss/leaves but I don't know. I have noticed that I have snails big time. I guess they came in on the moss. I added that a couple of months ago. I have tried baiting the snails with the weekend feeders in a bottle but haven't gotten any. Any ideas on what could be happening with the corys? I've had them over a year. Could it be normal aging? Thanks for any help. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26513	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta Update

Don't fool with the pH. Save your money and your fish. It's likely changed due to the salt and meds. Further, it's never good to fool with pH anyhow. Most fish easily acclimate to a broad pH range. And if someone did need to alter their pH, there are natural ways to do it without using harsh chemicals. What is your tap water baseline pH level? Check my blog for a recent article on establishing your baseline if you haven't done it already. Bettafix is the same active ingredient as Melafix... it's the melaleuca tea tree oil extract or something like that. The only difference is the dose. If you still have Bettafix, you could double the dose or more since Melafix is 10 times stronger and I normally recommend a 50% dose of Melafix with labyrinth fish... at least that's what I've used with no problems in the past. If you are running out of Bettafix, then buy Melafix and use 1/2 doses or less for Bettas and it will be much less expensive than Bettafix. I know that Melafix prescribes that you can do a 2nd weekly treatment after the first week finishes. Keep up with the frequent 25% PWC's as fresh clean water is the best thing for our fish. Their own immune systems can handle the rest in most cases with a little help from meds/salt when needed. I do daily PWC's on sick fish tanks unless the medicine strictly advises otherwise but most allow it and you just replace the 25% of the meds you removed with the PWC. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Walker Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick Betta Update Ok so he is better but at the same time not better. I have been treating him for a week as of tomorrow. He has been getting 25% PWC, salt is now being added to his tank and treated with betta fix. He is his active self again, has never stopped eating for me, and the white stuff on the bottom of his tank which looked like whiteish feces is back to normal brown feces. Thats the better part. The bad part,his swollen red tipped fins are still swollen and red tipped, although they have stopped shrinking in size. Should I maybe change to Melafix for his treatment or stick with the bettafix? I have been testing his water, the pH is a little high, I am getting a decreaser tomorrow and add in very little, dont want to change it to quick on him, other than that his water is fine. What else can I do for him? ~Melissa No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26514	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's

Most corys should live much longer than a year... at least 4-5++ years. I have a blog article I've been working on for a couple of years about life expectancy of aquarium fish... up to about 200 common species now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l Check it out for the life expectancy on all of your fish and let me know if you have info on some of the fish I'm still trying to verify. Has your pH always been in the 6.5 range? While most corys can handle a broad range of pH from the low 6's to the high 7's, the mollies prefer a higher pH so I'm just checking to see if it was higher and has come down recently. What is your GH and KH? With a low pH, snails do not generally do well since the acidic water is not good for their shells. They could be dying and although your nitrate reading is low, there's a possibility that the dying snails are fouling your water chemistry in a test we do not typically perform. What size tank? Any added chemicals other than basic dechlor? I don't like your idea of using the weekend feeders in a bottle for snail baiting. Those feeders normally contain lots of filler products... usually calcium carbonate based but it's still not good to use them things in our tanks. It should be good snail food though. I've used the rind from zucchini tied to a piece of string and weighed down on the bottom and then fish it out with a bunch of snails on it. I noticed that long after my fish are done with the zucchini, the snails will be sucking on the rind for a while so it looks like a natural snail trap and my fish love getting the snail trap ready for them (eating the slice of zucchini.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Hi All, I am having problems with my cory's. I have lost 3 in the past month. There are no visible signs on them to tell what's happened. Two of them I found in the java moss I keep on top of the tank. The other was floating. My water parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, @5 on nitrates and 6.5 ph. I have 15 mollies, 3 ottos, 3 pygmy gouramis and 1 male betta and 3 more surviving cory's. At first I thought they might be laying eggs in the moss/leaves but I don't know. I have noticed that I have snails big time. I guess they came in on the moss. I added that a couple of months ago. I have tried baiting the snails with the weekend feeders in a bottle but haven't gotten any. Any ideas on what could be happening with the corys? I've had them over a year. Could it be normal aging? Thanks for any help. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26515	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's

We have one, a albino dwarf cory that is about 15 or 16 years old. His tail is a bit crooked now, but he is still going strong! Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny /*Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 2:14 PM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's /* /*Most corys should live much longer than a year... at least 4-5++ years. I /*have a blog article I've been working on for a couple of years about life /*expectancy of aquarium fish... up to about 200 common species now. /*http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish- /*live.htm /*l Check it out for the life expectancy on all of your fish and let me /*know /*if you have info on some of the fish I'm still trying to verify. /* /*Has your pH always been in the 6.5 range? While most corys can handle a /*broad range of pH from the low 6's to the high 7's, the mollies prefer a /*higher pH so I'm just checking to see if it was higher and has come down /*recently. /* /*What is your GH and KH? With a low pH, snails do not generally do well /*since the acidic water is not good for their shells. They could be dying /*and although your nitrate reading is low, there's a possibility that the /*dying snails are fouling your water chemistry in a test we do not /*typically /*perform. /* /*What size tank? Any added chemicals other than basic dechlor? /* /*I don't like your idea of using the weekend feeders in a bottle for snail /*baiting. Those feeders normally contain lots of filler products... /*usually /*calcium carbonate based but it's still not good to use them things in our /*tanks. It should be good snail food though. I've used the rind from /*zucchini tied to a piece of string and weighed down on the bottom and then /*fish it out with a bunch of snails on it. I noticed that long after my /*fish /*are done with the zucchini, the snails will be sucking on the rind for a /*while so it looks like a natural snail trap and my fish love getting the /*snail trap ready for them (eating the slice of zucchini.. lol) /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci /*Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:43 PM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: [AquaticLife] help with cory's /* /*Hi All, /* /*I am having problems with my cory's. I have lost 3 in the past month. /*There /*are no visible signs on them to tell what's happened. Two of them I found /*in /*the java moss I keep on top of the tank. The other was floating. My water /*parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, @5 on nitrates and 6.5 ph. I have 15 /*mollies, 3 ottos, 3 pygmy gouramis and 1 male betta and 3 more surviving /*cory's. At first I thought they might be laying eggs in the moss/leaves /*but /*I don't know. I have noticed that I have snails big time. I guess they /*came /*in on the moss. I added that a couple of months ago. I have tried baiting /*the snails with the weekend feeders in a bottle but haven't gotten any. /*Any /*ideas on what could be happening with the corys? I've had them over a /*year. /*Could it be normal aging? Thanks for any help. /* /* /*Traci /*<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< /* /* /*No virus found in this outgoing message. /*Checked by AVG. /*Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 /*1:27 PM /* /* /* /* /*Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. /*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. /*Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /*

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26516	From: scrapbookjulia	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP!! Baffled by Fish deaths

Sorry I was at work so I couldn't remember all the exact numbers. The angels were going to be moved to a 55 long tank that after it finished cycling. I know I would be over stocked if I left everyone in there. thanks for your help! Here are the details: I have a 60gal Tetra HOB Whisper filter with the standard filter inserts that Tetra makes for them. The only "chemicals" that I use is the declorinator, Tetra Aquasafe, with water changes. I have several real plants in the tank, not sure the exact names of all of them, but there are some corkscrew something-or-others, dwarf swords, moss balls, anubias and crypts. THere is also a big driftwood branch. ammonia: 0 Nitrites: 0 Nitrates:20ppm KH:between the 40 and 80ppm reading PH:6.8 Hardness: 75ppm --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Whenever you have a problem in a tank, it's a good idea to do a full set of > new tests and give us your numbers. Saying "it's fine" or "level and > consistent" isn't enough information as there is no such thing as "fine" for > all fish. What might be good for some fish could be very bad for other > fish. > > Since your tank is only 2.5 months old, you might have just finished cycling > the tank or it could still be cycling if you didn't do things properly > during the cycling with fish process. It's always better to fishless cycle > but I understand many people end up with fish first and then find out all > about this cycling stuff. Once again, having numbers for ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, GH and KH go a long way in diagnosing problems. > > Tell us more about your tank, your filtration system, any filter additives, > chemicals you use or have used in the tank, any live plants, how they are > doing, etc. > > Your 50G tall tank will not be able to hold as many fish as a regular 50G or > rather a 55G 4' long tank due to having a much lower surface area for gas > exchange. With the numbers of fish you had, you would have been quickly > overstocked. Remember that when stocking a tank, you MUST stock it based on > the expected adult size of the fish, not the fact that they are "little" > now. Your two remaining angelfish, should they survive whatever happened, > will basically require the entire 50G tank to themselves with maybe a little > more room for a school of smaller fish. Although the clown pleco only grows > to around 4-5", they get very wide and bulky and have a lot of body mass to > them so they also need a lot of water volume but you might have been able to > handle a pair of angels and the clown pleco if the tank had a good overall > ecology and you did weekly tank/filter maintenance. > > Also, I'm not familiar with "Von Rios" so give me more info about what they > are. I did a Google but nothing jumped out at me except that it might be > another name for Flame Tetras or some kind of breeding offshoot > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_flammeus.html so check out > the pictures link on this profile and let us know if that's what you have. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of scrapbookjulia > Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP!! Baffled by Fish deaths > > Hi everyone, > > I guess I'm sort of new here. Haven't posted but I've been lurking around > trying to learn as much as I can. I'm having tank issues with my 50g tall > square tank. It has been running for about 2.5 months, cycled just fine. > Levels are all normal and consistent but this week I lost all 4 Angels, 3 > Von Rios, and a swordtail with in 48 hours. > The first day it was the 2 smaller (quarter size) angels and the von Rios, > so I though that it was the bigger angels picking on them (they are about > the size of a half dollar - so not huge). But the next day the other 2 were > floating too and the swordtail. There is no disease that is visible (ie: > fungus, finrot, worms etc). I didn't see any strange behavior, everyone has > been eating just fine. I'm stumped. Any advice would be appreciated. > > > I have remaining in the tank (all very small sized): > 2 swordtails > 3 tiny ottos > 3 balloon mollies > 4 german(?) rams > 1 clown pleco - another tiny guy - about 1.5 inches. > > > Thanks! > Julia > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 > 1:27 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26517	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's

Lenny, When I checked my water a month ago the ph was 7.0. I checked it yesterday and that is when it was 6.5, The water was a little cloudy so I did a PWC but it was just 2 days early anyway. I do those every two weeks. The tank is @50 gallons. I don't know GH and KH as my test kit didn't come with tests for that. I use prime when I add in fresh water. I can definitely try the zucchini bait. I almost always have it in my tanks. The molly's are huge pigs about it and the ottos love it too. In my other tank it is mostly the bala sharks that eat it. I'll try putting some rind in the bottle and see if that gets any in there. I had tried romaine lettuce a couple of weeks ago but nothing happened. I tried the weekend feeder because a friend of mine used it in his tank and it worked well. I have a dwarf puffer I thought about moving in there but he is very aggressive and I think would terrorize all the other fish. Eric, I hope I can get the others to live a lot longer. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thu 3/13/2008 2:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Most corys should live much longer than a year... at least 4-5++ years. I have a blog article I've been working on for a couple of years about life expectancy of aquarium fish... up to about 200 common species now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l Check it out for the life expectancy on all of your fish and let me know if you have info on some of the fish I'm still trying to verify. Has your pH always been in the 6.5 range? While most corys can handle a broad range of pH from the low 6's to the high 7's, the mollies prefer a higher pH so I'm just checking to see if it was higher and has come down recently. What is your GH and KH? With a low pH, snails do not generally do well since the acidic water is not good for their shells. They could be dying and although your nitrate reading is low, there's a possibility that the dying snails are fouling your water chemistry in a test we do not typically perform. What size tank? Any added chemicals other than basic dechlor? I don't like your idea of using the weekend feeders in a bottle for snail baiting. Those feeders normally contain lots of filler products... usually calcium carbonate based but it's still not good to use them things in our tanks. It should be good snail food though. I've used the rind from zucchini tied to a piece of string and weighed down on the bottom and then fish it out with a bunch of snails on it. I noticed that long after my fish are done with the zucchini, the snails will be sucking on the rind for a while so it looks like a natural snail trap and my fish love getting the snail trap ready for them (eating the slice of zucchini.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Hi All, I am having problems with my cory's. I have lost 3 in the past month. There are no visible signs on them to tell what's happened. Two of them I found in the java moss I keep on top of the tank. The other was floating. My water parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, @5 on nitrates and 6.5 ph. I have 15 mollies, 3 ottos, 3 pygmy gouramis and 1 male betta and 3 more surviving cory's. At first I thought they might be laying eggs in the moss/leaves but I don't know. I have noticed that I have snails big time. I guess they came in on the moss. I added that a couple of months ago. I have tried baiting the snails with the weekend feeders in a bottle but haven't gotten any. Any ideas on what could be happening with the corys? I've had them over a year. Could it be normal aging? Thanks for any help. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Z`·.¸¸.><((((s>.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸><((((s> ¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..><((((s> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <s((((><.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸<s((((><¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..<s((((><·´Z`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26518	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Choice of fish for breeding , you bring it on the subject Ray

Of course my partiality to shrimp says I'm going to suggest those to you. They really are great though and depending on the species, you can't get less aggressive than that. How about some Cherrys? Or one of my favorites, the Tiger Shrimp. Now of course they might be eaten if you do put any fish in the tank that would see them as a meal. Good luck to you. Kate Natural Aquarium <naquarium@...> wrote: Ray I see a lot of answer on this and other group who are just been take from website left and right,, that’s not bad, but when I want to start a new adventure I prefer fallow a recipe who have work for years and only when I master it , I will try to adapt it, so nothing better than ask an old timer .So here a question, after many years I get bored to buy fish at the LFS, I try all of them, since a month I’m trying to figure what king of fish I will be interested to breed, not for sale just for fill my planted aquarium, and for fun. By the nature of my tank, I exclude all form of large fish. I want also non aggressive fish, I try few month ago to breed Koi Angel, I have a success with my first try, but I discover than it was not for me, first off all the couple wants to kill every other fish in the tank, and the fry and juvenile can not be grow up in planted tank, they consume so much food than it rise up the phosphates to the sky. For now I’m looking at guppy, it’s interesting the play of color you can achieve, I will have guppy for sure, but the problem with them they are hard water fish, and many of my planted tank will not support it, So I will setup few tank with plants who thrive in hard water, but still I need a kind of fish who live neutral to soft water . Small fish, any suggestion ??? -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Raymond Wetzel Envoyé : March 12, 2008 7:38 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : Low tech tank was [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light because my main interest in my hatchery is breeding fish, although I've always enjoyed growing plants.. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26519	From: Dave Shives	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Sanding down an acrylic tank

Hi folks.. new member and I JUST purchased a used acrylic tank off of craigs list. Wow, it was much more scratched than I thought, I thought it was just dirty... So I bought a scratch kit... the 1000 grit sandpaper didn;t even scratch the surface (he he) I had to go the whole way down towards 100 to get the deep groves out... So I had an idea (ok maybe a dumb one...) I sanded and sanded for 5 hours today to get the 100 grit scratches out fo the aquarium and I still keep getting little ones I missed. Would anyone reccomend I use a car buffer to get the scrylic close to what the 12000 and 18000 grit sandpaper can finish off? What if I used a car wax cleaner to act as an abrasive on the scrylic. WOuld I eventually be killing fishes in a few months? I assume that any simonozer cleaner would eventually be gone since I'll need to go over every squarre inche with 12000 and 18000 paper to finish it off... Any suggestions? Dave in DC.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26520	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank

Hi Dave, If you have not done so already try filling up the tank with water and see how bad they are(on the inside) with the tank full. Very often scratches do not appear when the tank is full. -Mike Hi folks.. new member and I JUST purchased a used acrylic tank off of craigs list. Wow, it was much more scratched than I thought, I thought it was just dirty... So I bought a scratch kit... the 1000 grit sandpaper didn;t even scratch the surface (he he) I had to go the whole way down towards 100 to get the deep groves out... So I had an idea (ok maybe a dumb one...) I sanded and sanded for 5 hours today to get the 100 grit scratches out fo the aquarium and I still keep getting little ones I missed. Would anyone reccomend I use a car buffer to get the scrylic close to what the 12000 and 18000 grit sandpaper can finish off? What if I used a car wax cleaner to act as an abrasive on the scrylic. WOuld I eventually be killing fishes in a few months? I assume that any simonozer cleaner would eventually be gone since I'll need to go over every squarre inche with 12000 and 18000 paper to finish it off... Any suggestions? Dave in DC. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Shives <dshives@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 1:56 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Sanding down an acrylic tank Hi folks.. new member and I JUST purchased a used acrylic tank off of craigs list. Wow, it was much more scratched than I thought, I thought it was just dirty... So I bought a scratch kit... the 1000 grit sandpaper didn;t even scratch the surface (he he) I had to go the whole way down towards 100 to get the deep groves out... So I had an idea (ok maybe a dumb one...) I sanded and sanded for 5 hours today to get the 100 grit scratches out fo the aquarium and I still keep getting little ones I missed. Would anyone reccomend I use a car buffer to get the scrylic close to what the 12000 and 18000 grit sandpaper can finish off? What if I used a car wax cleaner to act as an abrasive on the scrylic. WOuld I eventually be killing fishes in a few months? I assume that any simonozer cleaner would eventually be gone since I'll need to go over every squarre inche with 12000 and 18000 paper to finish it off... Any suggestions? Dave in DC. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26521	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

To anyone that is interested, we are successfully breeding Zebrafish "glo-fish" to study genetics, etc, as a student project here (Bethany College, Bethany, WV). We have a variety of crosses that we have made with a variety of "regular" and other colored glo- fish. I am unsure about the patent's extension over "part" glo-fish offspring, so right now we are not going to sell any fish produced, BUT, I am more than willing to trade for other fish we can breed here. We are breeding several different species, and wish to expand the number of species, especially species with incomplete info about fertility/sterility and spawning methods Fish we are wanting to work with now and would like to trade for, and larger fry/juvenilles/etc are fine--adults aren't needed, but would certainly speed us up: -dwarf puffers -bloody parrots -purple passion danios -glolite danios (DANIO CHOPRAE) -clown rasbora -galaxy rasbora Certainly--we're willing to try others as well, but I'd really like some from this list. Right now, it appears that we will have some light "baby" pink zebras and possibly some that will be bluish in color. We also hope to have some green/yellow and it appears that some are developing some bright gold patterns. I won't know the final color of this batch for a few more weeks, but you are welcome to suggest a trade at any time. I know the ideas of this fish create much controversy, but I CAN tell you all that this fish is fun for the students to work with and it's getting more involved in the hobby--which couldn't be a bad thing! If anyone has any thoughts about the legalities of selling the fry, let me know...it would really help us offset costs! Amanda Stewart, PhD Dept. of Biology Bethany College Bethany WV astewart@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26522	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

> Next time you need test supplies, get a Master Test Kit. The API kit can be > found for under $20.00 on Petsmart.com and the local stores will match the > online prices. Other online sites have it under $15.00. I will definitely look into that. I just needed something that was right in front of me and it was there, ya know? I was having issues and kinda panicked and got what the guy at petsmart uses to test people's water that they bring in. > If you are going to be rescuing fish/tanks, you might want to keep > MelaFix and PimaFix on hand since it's inexpensive in the bigger bottles and > lasts a long time. I never intended on rescuing tanks...lol. I set up one my mom had in the garage. Then decided I wanted more fish and got a used one that someone was selling (and made a friend there). Then my mom turned that one into a plant terrarium...so when a lady posted that her ex roommate had left his fish behind and she didn't want it, I thought "well, i'm loving this whole fish thing, why not get another?". Now the one I got a couple days ago...the lady seemed really nice and she seemed like she knew how to take care of the fish...so I didn't think it would be so much a rescue effort as just moving the tank to my house, ya know? Then we got it here and I realized how bad it was (along with the smell in the car)...and I'm in a bind. The most I plan to do from here is get a 10 gallon for the two guys that came in the tank I got a couple days ago to go in. This 5 gallon is too small. Plus I found out today the light doesn't work at all. Getting a 10 gallon hopefully friday or this weekend...already have a line on a cheap used one. So, I'm not sure if I mentioned this yet, but probably not... My 20 gallon tank with platys, swordtails, mollies, a powder blue dwarf gourami, and a tiny algae eater.....my platys (which I think are all male) and my male swordtails are laying on the gravel in the bottom of my tank. They are right side up and alive, and if I tap on the glass or disturb them they move...but lay down again a minute later. I may also have a pregnant swordtail (my one female). What would make the fish lay on the gravel like that. They really look dead unless I watch very closely and see them move their side fins a tiny bit. It is hot here today, and the tank is like at 76-78 degrees. I did the test strip and it says everything is finie other than hard water (which I always have). My hexagon 10 gallon...none of my fish are laying on the bottom and seem fine. If I accidentally threw my tank back into cycling, would that make them do that? They also seem to have their fins tight to their body a lot of the time (the ones who lay on the bottom). Thanks, anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26523	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Hi Amanda, Make sure you call them Zebra Danio's or their latin name Brachydanio Rerio since Zebrafish is a not-often-used older common name and there are other species that are called Zebrafish as well. I know the Glofish.com site calls them Zebrafish but it's not a good practice... especially for a future mad scientist. ;-) If I was you, I'd be very careful about trading any of these cross breeds. While I appreciate the science and experimentation you are doing (I was a biology major in college also), you must take precautions that these fish never get released into the wild. Please reconsider your offer and plan to keep all the offspring in a controlled environment. We simply do not know what the long term effects of these genetic glofish enhancements may be and besides that, zebra danio's are already on the top of the list of many non-indigenous invasive species in America so we don't need a bunch of glowing mutant ZD's swimming wild in our lakes and streams. Besides, they might compete with my day-glo artificial lures when I'm trying to catch that lunker bass or trout!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of abarker3wvuedu Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 5:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP To anyone that is interested, we are successfully breeding Zebrafish "glo-fish" to study genetics, etc, as a student project here (Bethany College, Bethany, WV). We have a variety of crosses that we have made with a variety of "regular" and other colored glo- fish. I am unsure about the patent's extension over "part" glo-fish offspring, so right now we are not going to sell any fish produced, BUT, I am more than willing to trade for other fish we can breed here. We are breeding several different species, and wish to expand the number of species, especially species with incomplete info about fertility/sterility and spawning methods Fish we are wanting to work with now and would like to trade for, and larger fry/juvenilles/etc are fine--adults aren't needed, but would certainly speed us up: -dwarf puffers -bloody parrots -purple passion danios -glolite danios (DANIO CHOPRAE) -clown rasbora -galaxy rasbora Certainly--we're willing to try others as well, but I'd really like some from this list. Right now, it appears that we will have some light "baby" pink zebras and possibly some that will be bluish in color. We also hope to have some green/yellow and it appears that some are developing some bright gold patterns. I won't know the final color of this batch for a few more weeks, but you are welcome to suggest a trade at any time. I know the ideas of this fish create much controversy, but I CAN tell you all that this fish is fun for the students to work with and it's getting more involved in the hobby--which couldn't be a bad thing! If anyone has any thoughts about the legalities of selling the fry, let me know...it would really help us offset costs! Amanda Stewart, PhD Dept. of Biology Bethany College Bethany WV astewart@... <mailto:astewart%40bethanywv.edu> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26524	From: Dave Shives	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank

Oh, it's bad.... pretty bad indeed... I went ahead and sanded the back down with 100.... 150... 220... 800and it's a 90 gallon tank to I'm thinking since I'm half way there I may as well do it right... I was wondering if toothpaste wo0uld be a better abrasive than car wax. I'm guessing the fish will like me better one day. Dave --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > > > Hi Dave, > > > > If you have not done so already try filling up the tank with water and see how bad they are(on the inside) with the tank full. Very often scratches do not appear when the tank is full. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > Hi folks.. new member and I JUST purchased a used acrylic tank off of > craigs list. Wow, it was much more scratched than I thought, I > thought it was just dirty... > > So I bought a scratch kit... the 1000 grit sandpaper didn;t even > scratch the surface (he he) I had to go the whole way down towards > 100 to get the deep groves out... > > So I had an idea (ok maybe a dumb one...) I sanded and sanded for 5 > hours today to get the 100 grit scratches out fo the aquarium and I > still keep getting little ones I missed. Would anyone reccomend I > use a car buffer to get the scrylic close to what the 12000 and 18000 > grit sandpaper can finish off? > > What if I used a car wax cleaner to act as an abrasive on the > scrylic. WOuld I eventually be killing fishes in a few months? I > assume that any simonozer cleaner would eventually be gone since I'll > need to go over every squarre inche with 12000 and 18000 paper to > finish it off... > > Any suggestions? > > Dave in DC. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Shives <dshives@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 1:56 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sanding down an acrylic tank > > > > > > > Hi folks.. new member and I JUST purchased a used acrylic tank off of > craigs list. Wow, it was much more scratched than I thought, I > thought it was just dirty... > > So I bought a scratch kit... the 1000 grit sandpaper didn;t even > scratch the surface (he he) I had to go the whole way down towards > 100 to get the deep groves out... > > So I had an idea (ok maybe a dumb one...) I sanded and sanded for 5 > hours today to get the 100 grit scratches out fo the aquarium and I > still keep getting little ones I missed. Would anyone reccomend I > use a car buffer to get the scrylic close to what the 12000 and 18000 > grit sandpaper can finish off? > > What if I used a car wax cleaner to act as an abrasive on the > scrylic. WOuld I eventually be killing fishes in a few months? I > assume that any simonozer cleaner would eventually be gone since I'll > need to go over every squarre inche with 12000 and 18000 paper to > finish it off... > > Any suggestions? > > Dave in DC. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26525	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank

> Hi folks.. new member and I JUST purchased a used acrylic tank off of > craigs list. Wow, it was much more scratched than I thought, I > thought it was just dirty... > > So I bought a scratch kit... the 1000 grit sandpaper didn;t even > scratch the surface (he he) I had to go the whole way down towards > 100 to get the deep groves out... > > So I had an idea (ok maybe a dumb one...) I sanded and sanded for 5 > hours today to get the 100 grit scratches out fo the aquarium and I > still keep getting little ones I missed. Would anyone reccomend I > use a car buffer to get the scrylic close to what the 12000 and 18000 > grit sandpaper can finish off? > > What if I used a car wax cleaner to act as an abrasive on the > scrylic. WOuld I eventually be killing fishes in a few months? I > assume that any simonozer cleaner would eventually be gone since I'll > need to go over every squarre inche with 12000 and 18000 paper to > finish it off... > > Any suggestions? > > Dave in DC. > There are three levels of Novus brand plastic polish that I have found to work very well after the sand paper. There is also a product called Micromesh ( https://www.micro-surface.com/default.cfm?page_id=1) that has grades going down to 12000 that I have used on deeper scratches. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: HELP!! Baffled by Fish deaths

OK. Your numbers look good now and since you previously said they have been consistent, I'll take that to mean that your numbers are always in these ranges. It's great that you aren't using any kind of unnecessary chemicals. Just using a basic dechlor product is the best way to go although since even the Tetra Aquasafe has some unnecessary stuff in it (From their online description: The new formula now contains seaweed extracts (natural biopolymers) which support the development of beneficial filter bacteria for healthy and clear water. The added ingredients help to reduce aquarium pollution by strengthening the bacterial bed... Provides a slime coating to help wounds heal and protect fish from abrasions. Unique colloid ingredients in the formula have been designed to protect fish’s delicate gills and membranes.) It isn't as bad as some of the other water treatments that are pushed on unsuspecting newbie fish keepers but it does add stuff that isn't natural for our fish. I use API Tap Water Conditioner which only handles chlorine/chloramine and treats heavy metals. PetsMart sells Top Fin Tap Water Dechlorinator which does the same. I believe API makes it for them since they are the same higher concentration products so a 1ml dose treats 10G of tap water where many other tap water treatments require 5-10ml per 10G so you can treat up to 10 times more water for the same sized (and priced) bottle by using the API or Top Fin brand. When you run out of Aquasafe, look for one of these two brands or something similar that doesn't have all the slime-this and stress-that stuff in it. Since you have driftwood in the tank, has it finished leaching tannins into your water? The reason I'm asking is that the tannins will lower your pH so I'm not sure if your tap water baseline is in the 6.8 range or if it's much higher and the driftwood is lowering it once you do a PWC. I have a blog article on establishing your tap/source water baseline. If it's a lot higher than your tanks 6.8 pH, then when you do a PWC, it could cause a spike and then have it lowering again and this pH rollercoaster can cause some fish to have problems. The solution to this issue may mean that you have to do smaller, more frequent PWC's to keep the pH more stable. Did you change out your filter cartridge recently? I'm not sure if you did this but in newer tanks and tanks with only one filter system, it's important to NOT change out the filter cartridges, even though the instructions may say otherwise. See my blog article on proper filter maintenance and cleaning for more info. If you are only going to have one filter system on a tank and wish to change filter cartridges frequently as instructed, it would be a very good idea to keep extra filter media (floss pad, sponge, etc.) in the reservoir which will stay cycled even when you change out the main cartridge. The overwhelming majority of the nitrifying bacteria live in the filter media. If you throw them all out at once, you will potentially put your tank into a mini-cycle causing an ammonia and subsequent nitrite spike before enough new N-bacteria can grow to handle the bioload. This mini-cycle will usually last up to a week or so. Of course, since you have lots of live plants, they may have handled any excess ammonia so the spikes may not have happened. The only way to know if it is happening is to do before and after daily testing the next time you change out the cartridge. If you did not change out the cartridge recently, then we have to keep trying to figure out what happened and I would be leaning more towards something stress related or possibly an external toxin getting into the water although that would seem to affect all of your fish but it could have only affected the weaker specimens. If you go to my blog's main Disease page, near the top, I have a section about non-disease issues that can cause fish problems and kills, that cover many other outside factors. Review the pages in that section and let us know if anything rings a bell. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of scrapbookjulia Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 3:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP!! Baffled by Fish deaths Sorry I was at work so I couldn't remember all the exact numbers. The angels were going to be moved to a 55 long tank that after it finished cycling. I know I would be over stocked if I left everyone in there. thanks for your help! Here are the details: I have a 60gal Tetra HOB Whisper filter with the standard filter inserts that Tetra makes for them. The only "chemicals" that I use is the declorinator, Tetra Aquasafe, with water changes. I have several real plants in the tank, not sure the exact names of all of them, but there are some corkscrew something-or-others, dwarf swords, moss balls, anubias and crypts. THere is also a big driftwood branch. ammonia: 0 Nitrites: 0 Nitrates:20ppm KH:between the 40 and 80ppm reading PH:6.8 Hardness: 75ppm --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Whenever you have a problem in a tank, it's a good idea to do a full set of > new tests and give us your numbers. Saying "it's fine" or "level and > consistent" isn't enough information as there is no such thing as "fine" for > all fish. What might be good for some fish could be very bad for other > fish. > > Since your tank is only 2.5 months old, you might have just finished cycling > the tank or it could still be cycling if you didn't do things properly > during the cycling with fish process. It's always better to fishless cycle > but I understand many people end up with fish first and then find out all > about this cycling stuff. Once again, having numbers for ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, GH and KH go a long way in diagnosing problems. > > Tell us more about your tank, your filtration system, any filter additives, > chemicals you use or have used in the tank, any live plants, how they are > doing, etc. > > Your 50G tall tank will not be able to hold as many fish as a regular 50G or > rather a 55G 4' long tank due to having a much lower surface area for gas > exchange. With the numbers of fish you had, you would have been > quickly overstocked. Remember that when stocking a tank, you MUST > stock it based on > the expected adult size of the fish, not the fact that they are "little" > now. Your two remaining angelfish, should they survive whatever happened, > will basically require the entire 50G tank to themselves with maybe a little > more room for a school of smaller fish. Although the clown pleco only grows > to around 4-5", they get very wide and bulky and have a lot of body mass to > them so they also need a lot of water volume but you might have been able to > handle a pair of angels and the clown pleco if the tank had a good overall > ecology and you did weekly tank/filter maintenance. > > Also, I'm not familiar with "Von Rios" so give me more info about what they > are. I did a Google but nothing jumped out at me except that it might be > another name for Flame Tetras or some kind of breeding offshoot > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_flammeus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_flammeus.html> so check out > the pictures link on this profile and let us know if that's what you have. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of scrapbookjulia > Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP!! Baffled by Fish deaths > > Hi everyone, > > I guess I'm sort of new here. Haven't posted but I've been lurking around > trying to learn as much as I can. I'm having tank issues with my 50g tall > square tank. It has been running for about 2.5 months, cycled just fine. > Levels are all normal and consistent but this week I lost all 4 Angels, 3 > Von Rios, and a swordtail with in 48 hours. > The first day it was the 2 smaller (quarter size) angels and the von Rios, > so I though that it was the bigger angels picking on them (they are about > the size of a half dollar - so not huge). But the next day the other 2 were > floating too and the swordtail. There is no disease that is visible (ie: > fungus, finrot, worms etc). I didn't see any strange behavior, everyone has > been eating just fine. I'm stumped. Any advice would be appreciated. > > > I have remaining in the tank (all very small sized): > 2 swordtails > 3 tiny ottos > 3 balloon mollies > 4 german(?) rams > 1 clown pleco - another tiny guy - about 1.5 inches. > > > Thanks! > Julia No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26527	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's

I wouldn't put it in a bottle. The other fish won't bother with the rind once all the pulp is gone so the snails would find it much easier. Only my snails would be found grazing on the bare rind. You need to check your tap water baseline to see if your water supply has a lower pH now. I know in my area, the pH and GH are much lower during the winter months. I believe this is because during the warmer summer months, the warmer water running through supply pipes will cause some of the mineral buildup to leach into the water. Basic chemistry proves that the two things that will help a solid go into solution is heat and agitation so it's logical that warmer water flowing through the pipes would cause leaching of the solids built up on the insides of the pipes. If your tap water baseline is still high, do you have driftwood or something else in the tank that might be leaching and lowering your pH? I would check to see if your tap water pH is crashing once it's in your tank as that would cause problems to some fish. If it's dropping from 7.0 to 6.5 quickly, that would be considered a crash and could put some fish into pH shock. I think the preferred general guideline is no more than 0.1 pH change every couple of hours. My Disease page on my blog has a section about non-disease issues that cause fish problems and deaths and pH shock is one of the issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Lenny, When I checked my water a month ago the ph was 7.0. I checked it yesterday and that is when it was 6.5, The water was a little cloudy so I did a PWC but it was just 2 days early anyway. I do those every two weeks. The tank is @50 gallons. I don't know GH and KH as my test kit didn't come with tests for that. I use prime when I add in fresh water. I can definitely try the zucchini bait. I almost always have it in my tanks. The molly's are huge pigs about it and the ottos love it too. In my other tank it is mostly the bala sharks that eat it. I'll try putting some rind in the bottle and see if that gets any in there. I had tried romaine lettuce a couple of weeks ago but nothing happened. I tried the weekend feeder because a friend of mine used it in his tank and it worked well. I have a dwarf puffer I thought about moving in there but he is very aggressive and I think would terrorize all the other fish. Eric, I hope I can get the others to live a lot longer. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thu 3/13/2008 2:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Most corys should live much longer than a year... at least 4-5++ years. I have a blog article I've been working on for a couple of years about life expectancy of aquarium fish... up to about 200 common species now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.ht ml> Check it out for the life expectancy on all of your fish and let me know if you have info on some of the fish I'm still trying to verify. Has your pH always been in the 6.5 range? While most corys can handle a broad range of pH from the low 6's to the high 7's, the mollies prefer a higher pH so I'm just checking to see if it was higher and has come down recently. What is your GH and KH? With a low pH, snails do not generally do well since the acidic water is not good for their shells. They could be dying and although your nitrate reading is low, there's a possibility that the dying snails are fouling your water chemistry in a test we do not typically perform. What size tank? Any added chemicals other than basic dechlor? I don't like your idea of using the weekend feeders in a bottle for snail baiting. Those feeders normally contain lots of filler products... usually calcium carbonate based but it's still not good to use them things in our tanks. It should be good snail food though. I've used the rind from zucchini tied to a piece of string and weighed down on the bottom and then fish it out with a bunch of snails on it. I noticed that long after my fish are done with the zucchini, the snails will be sucking on the rind for a while so it looks like a natural snail trap and my fish love getting the snail trap ready for them (eating the slice of zucchini.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Hi All, I am having problems with my cory's. I have lost 3 in the past month. There are no visible signs on them to tell what's happened. Two of them I found in the java moss I keep on top of the tank. The other was floating. My water parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, @5 on nitrates and 6.5 ph. I have 15 mollies, 3 ottos, 3 pygmy gouramis and 1 male betta and 3 more surviving cory's. At first I thought they might be laying eggs in the moss/leaves but I don't know. I have noticed that I have snails big time. I guess they came in on the moss. I added that a couple of months ago. I have tried baiting the snails with the weekend feeders in a bottle but haven't gotten any. Any ideas on what could be happening with the corys? I've had them over a year. Could it be normal aging? Thanks for any help. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26528	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's

Wow... 15 years is a good long time for a Cory. Do you know what species it is? I glanced over my list and I don't have "Dwarf Cory" or "Albino Dwarf Cory" and all of the other corys on the list have a more definitive name or latin name. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's We have one, a albino dwarf cory that is about 15 or 16 years old. His tail is a bit crooked now, but he is still going strong! Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny /*Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 2:14 PM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's /* /*Most corys should live much longer than a year... at least 4-5++ years. I /*have a blog article I've been working on for a couple of years about life /*expectancy of aquarium fish... up to about 200 common species now. /*http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish- /*live.htm /*l Check it out for the life expectancy on all of your fish and let me /*know /*if you have info on some of the fish I'm still trying to verify. /* /*Has your pH always been in the 6.5 range? While most corys can handle a /*broad range of pH from the low 6's to the high 7's, the mollies prefer a /*higher pH so I'm just checking to see if it was higher and has come down /*recently. /* /*What is your GH and KH? With a low pH, snails do not generally do well /*since the acidic water is not good for their shells. They could be dying /*and although your nitrate reading is low, there's a possibility that the /*dying snails are fouling your water chemistry in a test we do not /*typically /*perform. /* /*What size tank? Any added chemicals other than basic dechlor? /* /*I don't like your idea of using the weekend feeders in a bottle for snail /*baiting. Those feeders normally contain lots of filler products... /*usually /*calcium carbonate based but it's still not good to use them things in our /*tanks. It should be good snail food though. I've used the rind from /*zucchini tied to a piece of string and weighed down on the bottom and then /*fish it out with a bunch of snails on it. I noticed that long after my /*fish /*are done with the zucchini, the snails will be sucking on the rind for a /*while so it looks like a natural snail trap and my fish love getting the /*snail trap ready for them (eating the slice of zucchini.. lol) /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci /*Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:43 PM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: [AquaticLife] help with cory's /* /*Hi All, /* /*I am having problems with my cory's. I have lost 3 in the past month. /*There /*are no visible signs on them to tell what's happened. Two of them I found /*in /*the java moss I keep on top of the tank. The other was floating. My water /*parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, @5 on nitrates and 6.5 ph. I have 15 /*mollies, 3 ottos, 3 pygmy gouramis and 1 male betta and 3 more surviving /*cory's. At first I thought they might be laying eggs in the moss/leaves /*but /*I don't know. I have noticed that I have snails big time. I guess they /*came /*in on the moss. I added that a couple of months ago. I have tried baiting /*the snails with the weekend feeders in a bottle but haven't gotten any. /*Any /*ideas on what could be happening with the corys? I've had them over a /*year. /*Could it be normal aging? Thanks for any help. /* /* /*Traci No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26529	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light,

Amano, not only I know him, but I understand very well is technique. Especially the use of the Glossostigma elatinoides, those plants need a lot of light, the reason why he use so much light is because they will grow upware if not, and since he want a carpet he need to push them on the gravel with a lot of light. And since those plants are at the greatest distance from the light you need even more. I’m not found to use carpeting plants, I like to see the gravel in my tank, but I like crypt, and when I want to make them stand, I put them in the shade, and if I want them flat, lay down on the gravel, I put them where they receive more light. For my 80 tanks, all are full planted. Even my quarantine tank. And I have only 2 x 10 gal. I’m building a web site, where I gone show it, the only problem I have it’s hard to get picture of the tank, because my alley between the row of tank are to close, so I can’t take a good pics. For me a tank need plants, Like Amano I will see the tank in my head, plan-it and after realize it, and only after I put fish, for me they are accessories. Still beautiful and necessary one. I get a lot more tank when I was 20 , but at that time it was nearly fish only tank. I start to get really serious about plants few years ago. And when I means serious, it’s serious.. I’m well aware of the technique of the past. But I’m more interest in the present because we have today more knowledge. Today not only I know what to do but I understand the WHY. And even do I still have a lot of questions not answers. I think we are in the golden age of this hobby. When I start in 1972 , I have only a book available ( where I live the book store was limited) it was the dark age, In 1980 I found a book of Axerold, WOW ( at the time) and now in 2008 A lot of information available ( still someone have to be able to judge what is good and not) Price are cheap too, I just bought 4 x 75 at big al, at Christmas time a $ 79.95 , in store not on the net, I pay for a 75 gal. $ 175 in 1984 , and it was on special. You mention an Echino , I have one here who make half a tank of 120 gal ( 48 x 24 x 24 ) they come very huge. This one give me a lot of baby, -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Raymond Wetzel Envoyé : March 12, 2008 4:06 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE : RE : [AquaticLife] Re: 10 Gallon Hood/Light I don't know who Tom Barr is, but I'm well familiar with Takashi Amano, having his 3 volume set of "Nature Aquarium World." In it, he suggests using even more light for the smaller aquarium, although I would not recommend that. He also maintains high tech tanks and plant which require more lighting, along with CO2, etc. On average though, he uses from 40 to 50 watts on a 10 gallon tank, up to 80 watts, but again this depends on the circumstances -- types of plants, etc., and their requirements .As for the "experience" you site, since you mention it, I am curious now as to just what that is, unless by that you mean your 80 tanks you maintain, but that is not having experience in knowing what aquatic plants have or haven't needed or used as lighting all along in the past, before this modern technology came about. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26530	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] help with cory's

Do you have plants in your tank, if yes you have to check your pH always at the same time in the day. The pH is higher in the end of the afternoon and lowers in the morning before open the lights, in planted tank, normal the CO2 down the pH. The more your kH is low the more the pH fluctuates. As for the cory, some are hard to kill, other die for nothing. But I notice something when I have who die, they always came from the same batch. And usually they die in the first week or the second one, and less frequent in the first 6 month. So it's never related to my tank. I have few here I don't have idea how old they are, may be over 7 or 8 years. Now since I use Aquarix software I keep a better tracking. -----Message d'origine---- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Swatek-Rice, Traci Envoyé : March 13, 2008 4:31 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Lenny, When I checked my water a month ago the ph was 7.0. I checked it yesterday and that is when it was 6.5, The water was a little cloudy so I did a PWC but it was just 2 days early anyway. I do those every two weeks. The tank is @50 gallons. I don't know GH and KH as my test kit didn't come with tests for that. I use prime when I add in fresh water. I can definitely try the zucchini bait. I almost always have it in my tanks. The molly's are huge pigs about it and the ottos love it too. In my other tank it is mostly the bala sharks that eat it. I'll try putting some rind in the bottle and see if that gets any in there. I had tried romaine lettuce a couple of weeks ago but nothing happened. I tried the weekend feeder because a friend of mine used it in his tank and it worked well. I have a dwarf puffer I thought about moving in there but he is very aggressive and I think would terrorize all the other fish. Eric, I hope I can get the others to live a lot longer. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thu 3/13/2008 2:14 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Most corys should live much longer than a year... at least 4-5++ years. I have a blog article I've been working on for a couple of years about life expectancy of aquarium fish... up to about 200 common species now. http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.ht m> blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l Check it out for the life expectancy on all of your fish and let me know if you have info on some of the fish I'm still trying to verify. Has your pH always been in the 6.5 range? While most corys can handle a broad range of pH from the low 6's to the high 7's, the mollies prefer a higher pH so I'm just checking to see if it was higher and has come down recently. What is your GH and KH? With a low pH, snails do not generally do well since the acidic water is not good for their shells. They could be dying and although your nitrate reading is low, there's a possibility that the dying snails are fouling your water chemistry in a test we do not typically perform. What size tank? Any added chemicals other than basic dechlor? I don't like your idea of using the weekend feeders in a bottle for snail baiting. Those feeders normally contain lots of filler products... usually calcium carbonate based but it's still not good to use them things in our tanks. It should be good snail food though. I've used the rind from zucchini tied to a piece of string and weighed down on the bottom and then fish it out with a bunch of snails on it. I noticed that long after my fish are done with the zucchini, the snails will be sucking on the rind for a while so it looks like a natural snail trap and my fish love getting the snail trap ready for them (eating the slice of zucchini.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> blogspot.com/> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Hi All, I am having problems with my cory's. I have lost 3 in the past month. There are no visible signs on them to tell what's happened. Two of them I found in the java moss I keep on top of the tank. The other was floating. My water parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, @5 on nitrates and 6.5 ph. I have 15 mollies, 3 ottos, 3 pygmy gouramis and 1 male betta and 3 more surviving cory's. At first I thought they might be laying eggs in the moss/leaves but I don't know. I have noticed that I have snails big time. I guess they came in on the moss. I added that a couple of months ago. I have tried baiting the snails with the weekend feeders in a bottle but haven't gotten any. Any ideas on what could be happening with the corys? I've had them over a year. Could it be normal aging? Thanks for any help. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Z`·.¸¸.><((((s>.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸><((((s> ¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..><((((s> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <s((((><.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸<s((((><¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..<s((((><·´Z`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26531	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's

Lenny, I have a white rock in there that looks like swiss cheese. I don't know what it is. The man I got the tank from used a lot of it. I know he had issues with cloudiness because he also gave me some chemicals he still had and they were for cloudiness and ammonia. I thought this might be what was causing the cloudiness in the tank. It cleared up after the water change so then I wasn't sure. I will do a PH check from the tap and see what it is and let you know. Thanks for the help again. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thu 3/13/2008 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's I wouldn't put it in a bottle. The other fish won't bother with the rind once all the pulp is gone so the snails would find it much easier. Only my snails would be found grazing on the bare rind. You need to check your tap water baseline to see if your water supply has a lower pH now. I know in my area, the pH and GH are much lower during the winter months. I believe this is because during the warmer summer months, the warmer water running through supply pipes will cause some of the mineral buildup to leach into the water. Basic chemistry proves that the two things that will help a solid go into solution is heat and agitation so it's logical that warmer water flowing through the pipes would cause leaching of the solids built up on the insides of the pipes. If your tap water baseline is still high, do you have driftwood or something else in the tank that might be leaching and lowering your pH? I would check to see if your tap water pH is crashing once it's in your tank as that would cause problems to some fish. If it's dropping from 7.0 to 6.5 quickly, that would be considered a crash and could put some fish into pH shock. I think the preferred general guideline is no more than 0.1 pH change every couple of hours. My Disease page on my blog has a section about non-disease issues that cause fish problems and deaths and pH shock is one of the issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Lenny, When I checked my water a month ago the ph was 7.0. I checked it yesterday and that is when it was 6.5, The water was a little cloudy so I did a PWC but it was just 2 days early anyway. I do those every two weeks. The tank is @50 gallons. I don't know GH and KH as my test kit didn't come with tests for that. I use prime when I add in fresh water. I can definitely try the zucchini bait. I almost always have it in my tanks. The molly's are huge pigs about it and the ottos love it too. In my other tank it is mostly the bala sharks that eat it. I'll try putting some rind in the bottle and see if that gets any in there. I had tried romaine lettuce a couple of weeks ago but nothing happened. I tried the weekend feeder because a friend of mine used it in his tank and it worked well. I have a dwarf puffer I thought about moving in there but he is very aggressive and I think would terrorize all the other fish. Eric, I hope I can get the others to live a lot longer. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thu 3/13/2008 2:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Most corys should live much longer than a year... at least 4-5++ years. I have a blog article I've been working on for a couple of years about life expectancy of aquarium fish... up to about 200 common species now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.ht ml> Check it out for the life expectancy on all of your fish and let me know if you have info on some of the fish I'm still trying to verify. Has your pH always been in the 6.5 range? While most corys can handle a broad range of pH from the low 6's to the high 7's, the mollies prefer a higher pH so I'm just checking to see if it was higher and has come down recently. What is your GH and KH? With a low pH, snails do not generally do well since the acidic water is not good for their shells. They could be dying and although your nitrate reading is low, there's a possibility that the dying snails are fouling your water chemistry in a test we do not typically perform. What size tank? Any added chemicals other than basic dechlor? I don't like your idea of using the weekend feeders in a bottle for snail baiting. Those feeders normally contain lots of filler products... usually calcium carbonate based but it's still not good to use them things in our tanks. It should be good snail food though. I've used the rind from zucchini tied to a piece of string and weighed down on the bottom and then fish it out with a bunch of snails on it. I noticed that long after my fish are done with the zucchini, the snails will be sucking on the rind for a while so it looks like a natural snail trap and my fish love getting the snail trap ready for them (eating the slice of zucchini.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Hi All, I am having problems with my cory's. I have lost 3 in the past month. There are no visible signs on them to tell what's happened. Two of them I found in the java moss I keep on top of the tank. The other was floating. My water parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, @5 on nitrates and 6.5 ph. I have 15 mollies, 3 ottos, 3 pygmy gouramis and 1 male betta and 3 more surviving cory's. At first I thought they might be laying eggs in the moss/leaves but I don't know. I have noticed that I have snails big time. I guess they came in on the moss. I added that a couple of months ago. I have tried baiting the snails with the weekend feeders in a bottle but haven't gotten any. Any ideas on what could be happening with the corys? I've had them over a year. Could it be normal aging? Thanks for any help. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Z`·.¸¸.><((((s>.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸><((((s> ¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..><((((s> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <s((((><.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸<s((((><¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..<s((((><·´Z`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26532	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank

Hello Dave, I peronally would not try the wax, I would be afraid of residue. I have heard from many places that toothpaste is a common tool for polishing scratches in acrylic. -Mike Oh, it's bad.... pretty bad indeed... I went ahead and sanded the back down with 100.... 150... 220... 800and it's a 90 gallon tank to I'm thinking since I'm half way there I may as well do it right... I was wondering if toothpaste wo0uld be a better abrasive than car wax. I'm guessing the fish will like me better one day. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Dave Shives <dshives@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 2:58 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank Oh, it's bad.... pretty bad indeed... I went ahead and sanded the back down with 100.... 150... 220... 800and it's a 90 gallon tank to I'm thinking since I'm half way there I may as well do it right... I was wondering if toothpaste wo0uld be a better abrasive than car wax. I'm guessing the fish will like me better one day. Dave --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > > > Hi Dave, > > > > If you have not done so already try filling up the tank with water and see how bad they are(on the inside) with the tank full. Very often scratches do not appear when the tank is full. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > Hi folks.. new member and I JUST purchased a used acrylic tank off of > craigs list. Wow, it was much more scratched than I thought, I > thought it was just dirty... > > So I bought a scratch kit... the 1000 grit sandpaper didn;t even > scratch the surface (he he) I had to go the whole way down towards > 100 to get the deep groves out... > > So I had an idea (ok maybe a dumb one...) I sanded and sanded for 5 > hours today to get the 100 grit scratches out fo the aquarium and I > still keep getting little ones I missed. Would anyone reccomend I > use a car buffer to get the scrylic close to what the 12000 and 18000 > grit sandpaper can finish off? > > What if I used a car wax cleaner to act as an abrasive on the > scrylic. WOuld I eventually be killing fishes in a few months? I > assume that any simonozer cleaner would eventually be gone since I'll > need to go over every squarre inche with 12000 and 18000 paper to > finish it off... > > Any suggestions? > > Dave in DC. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Shives <dshives@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 1:56 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sanding down an acrylic tank > > > > > > > Hi folks.. new member and I JUST purchased a used acrylic tank off of > craigs list. Wow, it was much more scratched than I thought, I > thought it was just dirty... > > So I bought a scratch kit... the 1000 grit sandpaper didn;t even > scratch the surface (he he) I had to go the whole way down towards > 100 to get the deep groves out... > > So I had an idea (ok maybe a dumb one...) I sanded and sanded for 5 > hours today to get the 100 grit scratches out fo the aquarium and I > still keep getting little ones I missed. Would anyone reccomend I > use a car buffer to get the scrylic close to what the 12000 and 18000 > grit sandpaper can finish off? > > What if I used a car wax cleaner to act as an abrasive on the > scrylic. WOuld I eventually be killing fishes in a few months? I > assume that any simonozer cleaner would eventually be gone since I'll > need to go over every squarre inche with 12000 and 18000 paper to > finish it off... > > Any suggestions? > > Dave in DC. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26533	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

When non-bottom feeding fish lay on the bottom with fins clamped, it's definitely a sign that something is wrong. Figuring out what's wrong is always a task. Whenever something is wrong, the first thing you should do is a PWC and gravel vacuum since poor water quality is the leading cause of fish problems. Next, do a filter cleaning to get rid of any excess detritus (see my blog article about doing proper filter maintenance and cleaning). These steps also prepare the tank for any eventual meds you may have to use as meds work much better when they have fresh water to work in. I would start by raising the salinity level depending on what the "tiny algae eater" is. You need to find out the species and see if they are salt tolerant as many catfish aren't... if it's a catfish. You may have to move it if it's salt intolerant or use other medical options. The chloride in salt will help the fish breathe easier and the sodium will help kill off bad bacteria and parasites. You should also increase the O2 levels in tank by increasing surface agitation. This article explains the uses and doses of salt. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml 76-78F is not "hot" for tropical fish. It's on the low end of the scale for them. What was the normal temperature of the tank prior to this heat spell? What might you have done that might have thrown your tank back into a cycle? You stated that your test results were OK. What were the numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 6:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > Next time you need test supplies, get a Master Test Kit. The API kit can be > found for under $20.00 on Petsmart.com and the local stores will match the > online prices. Other online sites have it under $15.00. I will definitely look into that. I just needed something that was right in front of me and it was there, ya know? I was having issues and kinda panicked and got what the guy at petsmart uses to test people's water that they bring in. > If you are going to be rescuing fish/tanks, you might want to keep > MelaFix and PimaFix on hand since it's inexpensive in the bigger bottles and > lasts a long time. I never intended on rescuing tanks...lol. I set up one my mom had in the garage. Then decided I wanted more fish and got a used one that someone was selling (and made a friend there). Then my mom turned that one into a plant terrarium...so when a lady posted that her ex roommate had left his fish behind and she didn't want it, I thought "well, i'm loving this whole fish thing, why not get another?". Now the one I got a couple days ago...the lady seemed really nice and she seemed like she knew how to take care of the fish...so I didn't think it would be so much a rescue effort as just moving the tank to my house, ya know? Then we got it here and I realized how bad it was (along with the smell in the car)...and I'm in a bind. The most I plan to do from here is get a 10 gallon for the two guys that came in the tank I got a couple days ago to go in. This 5 gallon is too small. Plus I found out today the light doesn't work at all. Getting a 10 gallon hopefully friday or this weekend...already have a line on a cheap used one. So, I'm not sure if I mentioned this yet, but probably not... My 20 gallon tank with platys, swordtails, mollies, a powder blue dwarf gourami, and a tiny algae eater.....my platys (which I think are all male) and my male swordtails are laying on the gravel in the bottom of my tank. They are right side up and alive, and if I tap on the glass or disturb them they move...but lay down again a minute later. I may also have a pregnant swordtail (my one female). What would make the fish lay on the gravel like that. They really look dead unless I watch very closely and see them move their side fins a tiny bit. It is hot here today, and the tank is like at 76-78 degrees. I did the test strip and it says everything is finie other than hard water (which I always have). My hexagon 10 gallon...none of my fish are laying on the bottom and seem fine. If I accidentally threw my tank back into cycling, would that make them do that? They also seem to have their fins tight to their body a lot of the time (the ones who lay on the bottom). Thanks, anndrea No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26534	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's

Here's a site with a list of common aquarium rocks and which are good and/or not good for which types of tank setups. http://www.uniquaria.com/articles/sr.html You can do a Google Image search on each name for images or post an image on your own photo hosting site or in the groups photo section and someone should be able to identify it. Also read this article for more details. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml Is the cloudiness white, green or ??? If white, it's usually associated with a bacterial bloom... sometimes a good bacteria, sometimes a bad bacteria. In a new tank or in a tank that was thrown into a mini-cycle, it's usually just the nitrifying bacteria blooming to catch up with the ammonia levels. DO NOT use chemicals for cloudiness. The chemicals are bad for your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 10:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Lenny, I have a white rock in there that looks like swiss cheese. I don't know what it is. The man I got the tank from used a lot of it. I know he had issues with cloudiness because he also gave me some chemicals he still had and they were for cloudiness and ammonia. I thought this might be what was causing the cloudiness in the tank. It cleared up after the water change so then I wasn't sure. I will do a PH check from the tap and see what it is and let you know. Thanks for the help again. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thu 3/13/2008 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's I wouldn't put it in a bottle. The other fish won't bother with the rind once all the pulp is gone so the snails would find it much easier. Only my snails would be found grazing on the bare rind. You need to check your tap water baseline to see if your water supply has a lower pH now. I know in my area, the pH and GH are much lower during the winter months. I believe this is because during the warmer summer months, the warmer water running through supply pipes will cause some of the mineral buildup to leach into the water. Basic chemistry proves that the two things that will help a solid go into solution is heat and agitation so it's logical that warmer water flowing through the pipes would cause leaching of the solids built up on the insides of the pipes. If your tap water baseline is still high, do you have driftwood or something else in the tank that might be leaching and lowering your pH? I would check to see if your tap water pH is crashing once it's in your tank as that would cause problems to some fish. If it's dropping from 7.0 to 6.5 quickly, that would be considered a crash and could put some fish into pH shock. I think the preferred general guideline is no more than 0.1 pH change every couple of hours. My Disease page on my blog has a section about non-disease issues that cause fish problems and deaths and pH shock is one of the issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Lenny, When I checked my water a month ago the ph was 7.0. I checked it yesterday and that is when it was 6.5, The water was a little cloudy so I did a PWC but it was just 2 days early anyway. I do those every two weeks. The tank is @50 gallons. I don't know GH and KH as my test kit didn't come with tests for that. I use prime when I add in fresh water. I can definitely try the zucchini bait. I almost always have it in my tanks. The molly's are huge pigs about it and the ottos love it too. In my other tank it is mostly the bala sharks that eat it. I'll try putting some rind in the bottle and see if that gets any in there. I had tried romaine lettuce a couple of weeks ago but nothing happened. I tried the weekend feeder because a friend of mine used it in his tank and it worked well. I have a dwarf puffer I thought about moving in there but he is very aggressive and I think would terrorize all the other fish. Eric, I hope I can get the others to live a lot longer. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thu 3/13/2008 2:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Most corys should live much longer than a year... at least 4-5++ years. I have a blog article I've been working on for a couple of years about life expectancy of aquarium fish... up to about 200 common species now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.ht m> l <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.ht <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.ht > ml> Check it out for the life expectancy on all of your fish and let me know if you have info on some of the fish I'm still trying to verify. Has your pH always been in the 6.5 range? While most corys can handle a broad range of pH from the low 6's to the high 7's, the mollies prefer a higher pH so I'm just checking to see if it was higher and has come down recently. What is your GH and KH? With a low pH, snails do not generally do well since the acidic water is not good for their shells. They could be dying and although your nitrate reading is low, there's a possibility that the dying snails are fouling your water chemistry in a test we do not typically perform. What size tank? Any added chemicals other than basic dechlor? I don't like your idea of using the weekend feeders in a bottle for snail baiting. Those feeders normally contain lots of filler products... usually calcium carbonate based but it's still not good to use them things in our tanks. It should be good snail food though. I've used the rind from zucchini tied to a piece of string and weighed down on the bottom and then fish it out with a bunch of snails on it. I noticed that long after my fish are done with the zucchini, the snails will be sucking on the rind for a while so it looks like a natural snail trap and my fish love getting the snail trap ready for them (eating the slice of zucchini.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Hi All, I am having problems with my cory's. I have lost 3 in the past month. There are no visible signs on them to tell what's happened. Two of them I found in the java moss I keep on top of the tank. The other was floating. My water parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, @5 on nitrates and 6.5 ph. I have 15 mollies, 3 ottos, 3 pygmy gouramis and 1 male betta and 3 more surviving cory's. At first I thought they might be laying eggs in the moss/leaves but I don't know. I have noticed that I have snails big time. I guess they came in on the moss. I added that a couple of months ago. I have tried baiting the snails with the weekend feeders in a bottle but haven't gotten any. Any ideas on what could be happening with the corys? I've had them over a year. Could it be normal aging? Thanks for any help. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26535	From: Pam Briggs	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Quality Fish Stores in Cleveland Ohio?

What are you looking for, fish, equipment, or other? Cichlids or Plecos is Somthing Fishy, on State rd. He knows his stuff. RMS on Engle Rd at Sheldon in Middleburg Hts/Parma. Talk to Charlie, you'll not likely encounter Mike. And if you can find someone willing to take you to Joe in Wickliff, let me know! .--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@... wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I am looking for a quality and knowledgeable store in or near Cleveland Ohio > for fresh water fish and live plants. Has anyone had any good experiences > or knowledge about this location? > > thanks > > Ken > > > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26536	From: Chad Plum	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Quality Fish Stores in Cleveland Ohio?

You could always go to Aquarium Adventure at 4808 Ridge Rd. Cleveland, OH 44144 Phone: (216) 741-9484 this can be a great store Pam Briggs <pamdane@...> wrote: What are you looking for, fish, equipment, or other? Cichlids or Plecos is Somthing Fishy, on State rd. He knows his stuff. RMS on Engle Rd at Sheldon in Middleburg Hts/Parma. Talk to Charlie, you'll not likely encounter Mike. And if you can find someone willing to take you to Joe in Wickliff, let me know! .--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@... wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I am looking for a quality and knowledgeable store in or near Cleveland Ohio > for fresh water fish and live plants. Has anyone had any good experiences > or knowledge about this location? > > thanks > > Ken > > > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26537	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank

I'm guessing here but I would not use car polish on the inside of a tank. Many of these products contain slight amount of detergents and or solvents. Toothpaste seems a better choice altough baking powder is a good choice too. And you can buy a polish pad attachement for a powered drill at a home store. In the past I have used autorubbing compound and toothpaste to buff out small dings in a guitars finish. It's a tedious process but it does work eventually. good luck! On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Dave Shives <dshives@...> wrote: > > > > > Oh, it's bad.... pretty bad indeed... > > I went ahead and sanded the back down with 100.... 150... 220... > 800and it's a 90 gallon tank to I'm thinking since I'm half way there > I may as well do it right... > > I was wondering if toothpaste wo0uld be a better abrasive than car > wax. I'm guessing the fish will like me better one day. > > Dave > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, > > > > > > > > If you have not done so already try filling up the tank with water > and see how bad they are(on the inside) with the tank full. Very > often scratches do not appear when the tank is full. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks.. new member and I JUST purchased a used acrylic tank off > of > > craigs list. Wow, it was much more scratched than I thought, I > > thought it was just dirty... > > > > So I bought a scratch kit... the 1000 grit sandpaper didn;t even > > scratch the surface (he he) I had to go the whole way down towards > > 100 to get the deep groves out... > > > > So I had an idea (ok maybe a dumb one...) I sanded and sanded for 5 > > hours today to get the 100 grit scratches out fo the aquarium and I > > still keep getting little ones I missed. Would anyone reccomend I > > use a car buffer to get the scrylic close to what the 12000 and > 18000 > > grit sandpaper can finish off? > > > > What if I used a car wax cleaner to act as an abrasive on the > > scrylic. WOuld I eventually be killing fishes in a few months? I > > assume that any simonozer cleaner would eventually be gone since > I'll > > need to go over every squarre inche with 12000 and 18000 paper to > > finish it off... > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Dave in DC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dave Shives <dshives@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 1:56 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sanding down an acrylic tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks.. new member and I JUST purchased a used acrylic tank off > of > > craigs list. Wow, it was much more scratched than I thought, I > > thought it was just dirty... > > > > So I bought a scratch kit... the 1000 grit sandpaper didn;t even > > scratch the surface (he he) I had to go the whole way down towards > > 100 to get the deep groves out... > > > > So I had an idea (ok maybe a dumb one...) I sanded and sanded for 5 > > hours today to get the 100 grit scratches out fo the aquarium and I > > still keep getting little ones I missed. Would anyone reccomend I > > use a car buffer to get the scrylic close to what the 12000 and > 18000 > > grit sandpaper can finish off? > > > > What if I used a car wax cleaner to act as an abrasive on the > > scrylic. WOuld I eventually be killing fishes in a few months? I > > assume that any simonozer cleaner would eventually be gone since > I'll > > need to go over every squarre inche with 12000 and 18000 paper to > > finish it off... > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Dave in DC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26538	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Guppy Killers?

Ray wrote that even a guppy will eat their young. I had no idea! My guppies in my 29 gallon must not have read that because they keep reproducing and there are tons of babies in that tank constantly. I feel awful doing it but I have been netting out the really young babies and putting them in my 55 gallon community tank. They disappear quite quickly in there (mostly tetras, barbs, and danios reside in that tank). All of my tanks are pretty heavily planted though so I am sure that gives the babies a fighting chance from not becoming mom and dad's dinner. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26539	From: ED	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Sanding down an acrylic tank

John Deere makes a polish that is made from soybeans, completly organic. Partnumber TY16169 product contains no acids, solvents, ammonia or excess alkali. It is non-corrosive and 100% biodegradable. For use on plastics, chrome painted surface and clearcoats. We have used ot to remove scratched from plastic hoods on mowers. I also have 100% food grade high temp bearing grease. You can literly cook muffins with it,LOL, Not likely to try it but it is food grade safe. For those that don't know I work at a John Deere dealership. 'Sunshine and Gentle Breezes' --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Poul Wehner" <poul.wehner@...> wrote: > > I'm guessing here but I would not use car polish on the inside of a > tank. Many of these products contain slight amount of detergents and > or solvents. > Toothpaste seems a better choice altough baking powder is a good > choice too. And you can buy a polish pad attachement for a powered > drill at a home store. > In the past I have used autorubbing compound and toothpaste to buff > out small dings in a guitars finish. It's a tedious process but it > does work eventually. > good luck! > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Dave Shives <dshives@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Oh, it's bad.... pretty bad indeed... > > > > I went ahead and sanded the back down with 100.... 150... 220... > > 800and it's a 90 gallon tank to I'm thinking since I'm half way there > > I may as well do it right... > > > > I was wondering if toothpaste wo0uld be a better abrasive than car > > wax. I'm guessing the fish will like me better one day. > > > > Dave > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have not done so already try filling up the tank with water > > and see how bad they are(on the inside) with the tank full. Very > > often scratches do not appear when the tank is full. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks.. new member and I JUST purchased a used acrylic tank off > > of > > > craigs list. Wow, it was much more scratched than I thought, I > > > thought it was just dirty... > > > > > > So I bought a scratch kit... the 1000 grit sandpaper didn;t even > > > scratch the surface (he he) I had to go the whole way down towards > > > 100 to get the deep groves out... > > > > > > So I had an idea (ok maybe a dumb one...) I sanded and sanded for 5 > > > hours today to get the 100 grit scratches out fo the aquarium and I > > > still keep getting little ones I missed. Would anyone reccomend I > > > use a car buffer to get the scrylic close to what the 12000 and > > 18000 > > > grit sandpaper can finish off? > > > > > > What if I used a car wax cleaner to act as an abrasive on the > > > scrylic. WOuld I eventually be killing fishes in a few months? I > > > assume that any simonozer cleaner would eventually be gone since > > I'll > > > need to go over every squarre inche with 12000 and 18000 paper to > > > finish it off... > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > Dave in DC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dave Shives <dshives@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 1:56 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sanding down an acrylic tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks.. new member and I JUST purchased a used acrylic tank off > > of > > > craigs list. Wow, it was much more scratched than I thought, I > > > thought it was just dirty... > > > > > > So I bought a scratch kit... the 1000 grit sandpaper didn;t even > > > scratch the surface (he he) I had to go the whole way down towards > > > 100 to get the deep groves out... > > > > > > So I had an idea (ok maybe a dumb one...) I sanded and sanded for 5 > > > hours today to get the 100 grit scratches out fo the aquarium and I > > > still keep getting little ones I missed. Would anyone reccomend I > > > use a car buffer to get the scrylic close to what the 12000 and > > 18000 > > > grit sandpaper can finish off? > > > > > > What if I used a car wax cleaner to act as an abrasive on the > > > scrylic. WOuld I eventually be killing fishes in a few months? I > > > assume that any simonozer cleaner would eventually be gone since > > I'll > > > need to go over every squarre inche with 12000 and 18000 paper to > > > finish it off... > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > Dave in DC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26540	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: best way to move?

in the next 2 months or so we are going to be moving out of our house and into a new one. i currently have a 70 gal tank that is full of fish. by my calculations my tank wieghs about 630 lbs full.( i wieghed 5 gallons of water and it came 2 39.5lbs, and 70/39.5 is 14, so 14x39.5 is 553 and the tank itself wieghed about 70 lbs so i am figuring it 2 be 630 lbs when full.) when we do move it'll only be 30 minutes at the max from where we are now. what's the best way to move? i've been working out at the gym but ain't no way i'm gonna move that.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26541	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

> Whenever something is wrong, the first thing you should do is a PWC and > gravel vacuum since poor water quality is the leading cause of fish > problems. Next, do a filter cleaning to get rid of any excess detritus (see > my blog article about doing proper filter maintenance and cleaning). I will do that later today :-) I wasn't sure if the partial watr change could stress them out and cause whatever it is to get worse. My mom's boyfriend says they look like they are doing exactly what bass do when they have a nest. But these are all live bearers, so I dunno what they are doing. > I would start by raising the salinity level depending on what the "tiny > algae eater" is. You need to find out the species and see if they are salt > tolerant as many catfish aren't... if it's a catfish. I don't think it is a catfish, I will have to google algae eaters and try to find pictures to identify it. How much salt would you put in it if it is a 20 gallon tank? Oh, and the big gourami in the little tank is laying on the bottom a lot, too, but he is one of the fish with brown on him, so maybe he just doesn't feel good? That is the tank that is getting the Jungle Lifeguard stuff, can I still put salt in it? How much for a 5 gallon? I have a box of aquarium salt, so I would be using that. Oh, and the two sick fish in the tiny tank (5 gallon) are getting a bigger tank tomorrow (10 gallon). > You should also increase the O2 levels in tank by > increasing surface agitation. Well, I have a long bubble stone and a small round bubble stone in the 20 gallon tank (the one with the fish on the bottom). I can turn the air up, but it makes it look like the water is boiling, almost...because of so many bubbles...if that's ok, I'll crank it up. > This article explains the uses and doses of > salt. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml Oops, disregard the above questions about salt, then :-) > 76-78F is not "hot" for tropical fish. It's on the low end of the scale for > them. What was the normal temperature of the tank prior to this heat spell? Mostly it hangs around 74...usually 76....I know that 78 isn't much of an increase, but it was higher than normal. > What might you have done that might have thrown your tank back into a cycle? Well, last time I gravel vacuumed, I used the sprayer on the kitchen sink to wash out the filter (it had brown goo on it, and my water was cloudy, so I rinsed it and it cleared up overnight). Someone told me I probably restarted the cycle because of rinsing the good bacteria out of the filter. Suggested putting two cartridges in the one filter so I could alternate rinsing them. That way I always have good bacteris in one of them, at least. > You stated that your test results were OK. What were the numbers for > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you have? Uhm, I threw away the strip, but it was: ph 7.5 nitrite and nitrate I am not 100% sure...it was one of these two combinations: if the nitrite was 0, then the nitrate was about 40. If the nitrate was 0, then the nitrite was about 1. The two tests are next to each other and I don't remember which one was pink (meaning more than 0). I'm thinking it was the nitrate that was pink (meaning 40) because I had read somewhere that is a good level to have the tank at and when I looked at the test, I wasn't worried. I don't have an ammonia test. Need to get that big master kit, but don't have the money at the moment (should soon, though). thanks a ton! anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26542	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

Oh, and all I can find for the name of my algae eater is "chinese algae eater" (Gyrinocheilus aymonieri). anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26543	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

Ok, new problem...I don't understand the site you sent me to :-( It is a wealth of info, but I am just not understanding... How much salt am I supposed to use? anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26544	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: best way to move?

For starters, water weighs approximately 8 1/3 (8.33) pounds per gallon, so 5 gallons of water comes to 41.65 lbs.; -- 70 gallons = 583.1 lbs. Added to the weight (70 lbs.) of the tank totals 653.1 lbs. But aside from that, YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!! Why would you want to move a full tank of water??? Assuming for a moment that it could be moved full, the construction of the tank would never stand the strain of 653 pounds of water tending to stay at rest while the your vehicle and tank accelerate. Then too, once moving, this 653 pounds of water will want to stay in motion even as you brake the vehicle (and tank); and forget about the centrifugal force when going around a turn! Tanks are not made to withstand these forces. Is there a certain reason why you'd prefer to keep the tank filled while moving it (it can't be done)? You'll need to drain the tank either (preferably) completely, or nearly completely. Unless you can set up a number of baffles inside the tank, the larger the amount of water left in the tank -- the greater the forces will be on the tanks' sides and/or ends when the water sloshes. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "thtanoyinguy" <thtanoyinguy@...> wrote: > > in the next 2 months or so we are going to be moving out of our house > and into a new one. i currently have a 70 gal tank that is full of > fish. by my calculations my tank wieghs about 630 lbs full.( i wieghed > 5 gallons of water and it came 2 39.5lbs, and 70/39.5 is 14, so 14x39.5 > is 553 and the tank itself wieghed about 70 lbs so i am figuring it 2 > be 630 lbs when full.) when we do move it'll only be 30 minutes at the > max from where we are now. what's the best way to move? i've been > working out at the gym but ain't no way i'm gonna move that. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26545	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Painted Tetras

I just found a new (to me) fish store down the street from work. Typical place - overcrowded with tanks and boxes. They had two cages for puppies/kittens but luckily they were empty. If I find out that they sell puppies/kittens, I will not shop there. Anyways, they had Painted Tetras which I had never seen before. Some of them had a horizontal strip down the middle with blue, yellow and green. Some had vertical stripes of blue, yellow and green. Some had pokadots on them. I am assuming this is cruel but how do that do that? With needles and dye? Other than that, the tanks were all very clean. I didn't have time to talk to anybody though to see if they were knowledgable though. They also had three different types of Bettas: the regular ones that you see everywhere, the crowntails (which I will be getting one soon!), and a short-finned roundtail which I had never seen before. Until recently, I thought there was only one type of Betta! Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26546	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Wood

I have had Pleco's for at least 15 years and never knew that they needed wood to chew on (smacks herself upon the forehead via V8 style!). I know that there were a few varieties of wood that you cannot give them, found one type (I don't honestly remember if it was oak or maple) that was good for them though. Since Rick had taken down the tree recently, we had quite a few pieces of it so he cut off a piece around 12 inches. I boiled the heck out of it to get any tanin's out and put it in my 55 gallon with my five-year pleco (who is only around six inches - good thing!). He has ignored it completely for the two weeks that it has been in there. I have a piece of blue coral from Hawaii that he has adored since I got him. The wood is rather ugly also but luckily all the plants hide it somewhat. I thought putting in this wood would save some money since driftwood up here is pretty darn expensive. But would it be worth it instead of using this wood that he is ignoring? Maybe because he wasn't raised with wood he doesn't know what to do with it? Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26547	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Stones

I found some nicely colored rocks/stones outside today that were recently delivered for our office landscaping. They are just regular old rocks but have some nice color to them. About the size of my fist. Not being a geologist, I don't know their real names but they are rocks we see all over in Michigan. Anyways, I was thinking that they might look nice in a new tank I will be setting up soon (freecycle is a wonderful thing!). I would of course boil them well first but I am wondering if they might affect my pH? My pH tends to run high anyways (7.6 to 7.8) and won't use them if that is a possibility. I had heard that pieces of coral could run up the pH but my 55 gallon has four pieces of coral in it (one of them 12 inches by about six inches) and that tanks pH tends to run about 7.2 so I am not sure if that theory is true or not. Paula in Monroe, Michigan (who promises this is my last question today!<G>)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26548	From: ED	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Stones

Depending on the stones they may even contain toxins.' Try one of the yahoo groups of "rockhounds" Invaluable info on identification and mineral contants. Be Carefull many stones contain toxins. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <browngip@...> wrote: > > I found some nicely colored rocks/stones outside today that were recently delivered for our office landscaping. They are just regular old rocks but have some nice color to them. About the size of my fist. Not being a geologist, I don't know their real names but they are rocks we see all over in Michigan. > > Anyways, I was thinking that they might look nice in a new tank I will be setting up soon (freecycle is a wonderful thing!). I would of course boil them well first but I am wondering if they might affect my pH? My pH tends to run high anyways (7.6 to 7.8) and won't use them if that is a possibility. I had heard that pieces of coral could run up the pH but my 55 gallon has four pieces of coral in it (one of them 12 inches by about six inches) and that tanks pH tends to run about 7.2 so I am not sure if that theory is true or not. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan (who promises this is my last question today!<G>) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26549	From: ED	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Painted Tetras

Try Google 'Betta' then click on images. :) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <browngip@...> wrote: > > I just found a new (to me) fish store down the street from work. Typical place - overcrowded with tanks and boxes. They had two cages for puppies/kittens but luckily they were empty. If I find out that they sell puppies/kittens, I will not shop there. > > Anyways, they had Painted Tetras which I had never seen before. Some of them had a horizontal strip down the middle with blue, yellow and green. Some had vertical stripes of blue, yellow and green. Some had pokadots on them. I am assuming this is cruel but how do that do that? With needles and dye? > > Other than that, the tanks were all very clean. I didn't have time to talk to anybody though to see if they were knowledgable though. > > They also had three different types of Bettas: the regular ones that you see everywhere, the crowntails (which I will be getting one soon!), and a short-finned roundtail which I had never seen before. Until recently, I thought there was only one type of Betta! > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26550	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: help with cory's

Texas holey rock? Used often with African Rift Lake Cichlids. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Here's a site with a list of common aquarium rocks and which are good and/or not good for which types of tank setups. http://www.uniquaria.com/articles/sr.html You can do a Google Image search on each name for images or post an image on your own photo hosting site or in the groups photo section and someone should be able to identify it. Also read this article for more details. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml Is the cloudiness white, green or ??? If white, it's usually associated with a bacterial bloom... sometimes a good bacteria, sometimes a bad bacteria. In a new tank or in a tank that was thrown into a mini-cycle, it's usually just the nitrifying bacteria blooming to catch up with the ammonia levels. DO NOT use chemicals for cloudiness. The chemicals are bad for your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 10:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Lenny, I have a white rock in there that looks like swiss cheese. I don't know what it is. The man I got the tank from used a lot of it. I know he had issues with cloudiness because he also gave me some chemicals he still had and they were for cloudiness and ammonia. I thought this might be what was causing the cloudiness in the tank. It cleared up after the water change so then I wasn't sure. I will do a PH check from the tap and see what it is and let you know. Thanks for the help again. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thu 3/13/2008 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's I wouldn't put it in a bottle. The other fish won't bother with the rind once all the pulp is gone so the snails would find it much easier. Only my snails would be found grazing on the bare rind. You need to check your tap water baseline to see if your water supply has a lower pH now. I know in my area, the pH and GH are much lower during the winter months. I believe this is because during the warmer summer months, the warmer water running through supply pipes will cause some of the mineral buildup to leach into the water. Basic chemistry proves that the two things that will help a solid go into solution is heat and agitation so it's logical that warmer water flowing through the pipes would cause leaching of the solids built up on the insides of the pipes. If your tap water baseline is still high, do you have driftwood or something else in the tank that might be leaching and lowering your pH? I would check to see if your tap water pH is crashing once it's in your tank as that would cause problems to some fish. If it's dropping from 7.0 to 6.5 quickly, that would be considered a crash and could put some fish into pH shock. I think the preferred general guideline is no more than 0.1 pH change every couple of hours. My Disease page on my blog has a section about non-disease issues that cause fish problems and deaths and pH shock is one of the issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Lenny, When I checked my water a month ago the ph was 7.0. I checked it yesterday and that is when it was 6.5, The water was a little cloudy so I did a PWC but it was just 2 days early anyway. I do those every two weeks. The tank is @50 gallons. I don't know GH and KH as my test kit didn't come with tests for that. I use prime when I add in fresh water. I can definitely try the zucchini bait. I almost always have it in my tanks. The molly's are huge pigs about it and the ottos love it too. In my other tank it is mostly the bala sharks that eat it. I'll try putting some rind in the bottle and see if that gets any in there. I had tried romaine lettuce a couple of weeks ago but nothing happened. I tried the weekend feeder because a friend of mine used it in his tank and it worked well. I have a dwarf puffer I thought about moving in there but he is very aggressive and I think would terrorize all the other fish. Eric, I hope I can get the others to live a lot longer. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thu 3/13/2008 2:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Most corys should live much longer than a year... at least 4-5++ years. I have a blog article I've been working on for a couple of years about life expectancy of aquarium fish... up to about 200 common species now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.ht m> l <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.ht <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.ht > ml> Check it out for the life expectancy on all of your fish and let me know if you have info on some of the fish I'm still trying to verify. Has your pH always been in the 6.5 range? While most corys can handle a broad range of pH from the low 6's to the high 7's, the mollies prefer a higher pH so I'm just checking to see if it was higher and has come down recently. What is your GH and KH? With a low pH, snails do not generally do well since the acidic water is not good for their shells. They could be dying and although your nitrate reading is low, there's a possibility that the dying snails are fouling your water chemistry in a test we do not typically perform. What size tank? Any added chemicals other than basic dechlor? I don't like your idea of using the weekend feeders in a bottle for snail baiting. Those feeders normally contain lots of filler products... usually calcium carbonate based but it's still not good to use them things in our tanks. It should be good snail food though. I've used the rind from zucchini tied to a piece of string and weighed down on the bottom and then fish it out with a bunch of snails on it. I noticed that long after my fish are done with the zucchini, the snails will be sucking on the rind for a while so it looks like a natural snail trap and my fish love getting the snail trap ready for them (eating the slice of zucchini.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] help with cory's Hi All, I am having problems with my cory's. I have lost 3 in the past month. There are no visible signs on them to tell what's happened. Two of them I found in the java moss I keep on top of the tank. The other was floating. My water parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, @5 on nitrates and 6.5 ph. I have 15 mollies, 3 ottos, 3 pygmy gouramis and 1 male betta and 3 more surviving cory's. At first I thought they might be laying eggs in the moss/leaves but I don't know. I have noticed that I have snails big time. I guess they came in on the moss. I added that a couple of months ago. I have tried baiting the snails with the weekend feeders in a bottle but haven't gotten any. Any ideas on what could be happening with the corys? I've had them over a year. Could it be normal aging? Thanks for any help. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26551	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Wood

Paula, What is the shape of your wood? Is it just a block, or is it shaped more like the driftwood you see in the store where it is usually more of a branch laying longitudinally? Most of the plecos I have had, when they were with the driftwood, have spent 90% of their time attached to the driftwood upside down, on the lower side of it. I cannot say what they would have done had it been more like a column. Your guy may just need to get used to the new wood. Perhaps it needs to age some more before it is more to his liking. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 1:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Wood I have had Pleco's for at least 15 years and never knew that they needed wood to chew on (smacks herself upon the forehead via V8 style!). I know that there were a few varieties of wood that you cannot give them, found one type (I don't honestly remember if it was oak or maple) that was good for them though. Since Rick had taken down the tree recently, we had quite a few pieces of it so he cut off a piece around 12 inches. I boiled the heck out of it to get any tanin's out and put it in my 55 gallon with my five-year pleco (who is only around six inches - good thing!). He has ignored it completely for the two weeks that it has been in there. I have a piece of blue coral from Hawaii that he has adored since I got him. The wood is rather ugly also but luckily all the plants hide it somewhat. I thought putting in this wood would save some money since driftwood up here is pretty darn expensive. But would it be worth it instead of using this wood that he is ignoring? Maybe because he wasn't raised with wood he doesn't know what to do with it? Paula in Monroe, Michigan ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26552	From: ~:*''*:~ Dee~:*''*:~	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: new and my intro

I thought I would jump in and introduce myself. I am Dee and I am from Galveston Texas and I just set up my first Saltwater Tank. My only experience with fish really have been Bettas before this. I have my live rock started in the cycling stages .. Dee BioCube 12 gallon Live Rock and Sand only so far [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26553	From: waves02	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: help again..=(

the two fancy goldfish...frito and cheeto... that were in a small tank.. well, am going to get a larger tank... so, in the meanwhile... I did partial water changes with amquel added... about 1/3 then the next day.. 1/3... they are tipping downward... I know that I left some charcoal floating... will this make them die.. I feel like a murderer.. caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26554	From: Russ Foley	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: New Member and help needed already eh? Pregnant Guppy

Hi folks. Just joined up and I am in need of help already. Sorta new to tanks and the tank is doing good. Just been to the shop and bought some more guppies and noticed that 3 or so of them are pregnant. We had a pregnant one before and it died. Now we want to try and get it right this time. HELP Need help from anyone who has had pregnant guppies. Does each female guppy have to go in a seperate net. Also at what point should they go in the net as they were in the main tank. Help help help... I want this to work this time. Hate seeing it fail Russ n Sarah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26555	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Acrylic tank scratches

Well, as a model aircraft builder, I can tell you that toothpaste (not gel-types) work well as a polishing agent for clear styrene and acrylics. They put a good shine on, but they also take awhile to produce that shine. Use a very soft cloth like an old cotton diaper or cotton flannel shirt. I don't envy you the task, though.    Gregg Bender Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26556	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: help again..=(

There are two formulae of Amquel.(though the original supplier and inventor is selling the real stuff to Hikari USA now and it goes under the name Ultimate), which have you used? Also, remember, when you test for ammonia, Amquel (and ultimate) will throw the normal test kits off, and you need to use a different kit for testing for ammonia using reagents known as salicylate instead of the more common Nesslar reagents. Has the pH of the water changed? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of waves02 Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help again..=( the two fancy goldfish...frito and cheeto... that were in a small tank.. well, am going to get a larger tank... so, in the meanwhile... I did partial water changes with amquel added... about 1/3 then the next day.. 1/3... they are tipping downward... I know that I left some charcoal floating... will this make them die.. I feel like a murderer.. caroline

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26557	From: ipartyforfun	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Questions about my pleco

We have a large pleco that as of today is not doing well. We change the water regularly and have a system set in place. We are probaly overfilering the water, but we have 2 hang on the back filters (Emperors) and a Fluval running on the tank. Tank is very establsihed, with no newbies added and no one has been sick or died. All water test are good, haven't had anything out of line snce first setting up the tank (mormal spikes during cycling). I noticed this morning he wasn't moving around as much, not all that unusual for his size. Tonight he was at the bottom on the tank, half on the glass, half on the sand. I thought he looked in a wierd position so I moved him to lay flat. He di not take off as he mormally would. He body is VERY faded in a few spots on his tail and lower back near his tail. Almost like he is dying and losing his black. We put some zuchini swuash in tonight and he would noramlly go crazy for it, and we put it right next to his head, nothing. Any suggestions? Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26558	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Painted Tetras

The "Painted Tetras" are actually tattooed and yes it is cruel. It's one thing for a human to decide to get a tattoo but it's not right to have your pets tattooed merely for the owners pleasure. You should voice your opinion to the manager of that store to quit buying them. This site has more info about the process but may have some fanatical info as well. http://www.deathbydyeing.org/moreau.htm There are dozens of species of Bettas with the most common in the USA, being the Betta Splendens and the fancy off-shoots like the crowntail, veiltail, etc. Here's a couple of pages I have in my favorites with the second link being to the IBC (International Betta Congress). http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/bettafish/species.php http://www.ibc-smp.org/species/index.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 12:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Painted Tetras I just found a new (to me) fish store down the street from work. Typical place - overcrowded with tanks and boxes. They had two cages for puppies/kittens but luckily they were empty. If I find out that they sell puppies/kittens, I will not shop there. Anyways, they had Painted Tetras which I had never seen before. Some of them had a horizontal strip down the middle with blue, yellow and green. Some had vertical stripes of blue, yellow and green. Some had pokadots on them. I am assuming this is cruel but how do that do that? With needles and dye? Other than that, the tanks were all very clean. I didn't have time to talk to anybody though to see if they were knowledgable though. They also had three different types of Bettas: the regular ones that you see everywhere, the crowntails (which I will be getting one soon!), and a short-finned roundtail which I had never seen before. Until recently, I thought there was only one type of Betta! Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Wood

Yes, most plecos eat driftwood. My old common would hang on the driftwood all the time and long strands of poop would be hanging off of him so I know he was eating the driftwood. My new Clown Pleco spends a lot of time munching on the driftwood also. I think you need to use driftwood. Freshcut wood should not be put in our fish tanks IMO. I bought my driftwood online. BigAlsOnline.com had the best prices I could find but that was a few years ago but here's there driftwood page so you can shop around for comparison. http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18311/cl0/driftwood Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 12:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Wood I have had Pleco's for at least 15 years and never knew that they needed wood to chew on (smacks herself upon the forehead via V8 style!). I know that there were a few varieties of wood that you cannot give them, found one type (I don't honestly remember if it was oak or maple) that was good for them though. Since Rick had taken down the tree recently, we had quite a few pieces of it so he cut off a piece around 12 inches. I boiled the heck out of it to get any tanin's out and put it in my 55 gallon with my five-year pleco (who is only around six inches - good thing!). He has ignored it completely for the two weeks that it has been in there. I have a piece of blue coral from Hawaii that he has adored since I got him. The wood is rather ugly also but luckily all the plants hide it somewhat. I thought putting in this wood would save some money since driftwood up here is pretty darn expensive. But would it be worth it instead of using this wood that he is ignoring? Maybe because he wasn't raised with wood he doesn't know what to do with it? Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26560	From: waves02	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: help again..=(

leaving to get the test kit.. I never dreamed that goldfish were so precious.. caroline At 06:40 PM 3/14/2008, you wrote: >There are two formulae of Amquel.(though the original supplier and >inventor is selling the real stuff to Hikari USA now and it goes under >the name Ultimate), which have you used? Also, remember, when you test >for ammonia, Amquel (and ultimate) will throw the normal test kits off, >and you need to use a different kit for testing for ammonia using >reagents known as salicylate instead of the more common Nesslar >reagents. > >Has the pH of the water changed? > >\\Steve// > >-----Original Message----- >From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] >On Behalf Of waves02 >Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 8:23 PM >To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help again..=( > >the two fancy goldfish...frito and cheeto... that were in a small tank.. >well, am going to get a larger tank... so, in the meanwhile... I did >partial water changes with amquel added... about 1/3 then the next >day.. 1/3... they are tipping downward... I know that I left some >charcoal floating... will this make them die.. I feel like a murderer.. >caroline > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26561	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Stones

You can test the rocks to see if they will leach. This article explains how. http://www.uniquaria.com/articles/sr.html This article goes into much more detail about rocks. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml Getting rocks from a landscaping company or plant nursery is an affordable way to use rocks in a tank... much less expensive than buying the rocks from a pet/fish store. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com P.S. - Are you talking about today as in Friday or this 24 hour period? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 2:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Stones I found some nicely colored rocks/stones outside today that were recently delivered for our office landscaping. They are just regular old rocks but have some nice color to them. About the size of my fist. Not being a geologist, I don't know their real names but they are rocks we see all over in Michigan. Anyways, I was thinking that they might look nice in a new tank I will be setting up soon (freecycle is a wonderful thing!). I would of course boil them well first but I am wondering if they might affect my pH? My pH tends to run high anyways (7.6 to 7.8) and won't use them if that is a possibility. I had heard that pieces of coral could run up the pH but my 55 gallon has four pieces of coral in it (one of them 12 inches by about six inches) and that tanks pH tends to run about 7.2 so I am not sure if that theory is true or not. Paula in Monroe, Michigan (who promises this is my last question today!<G>) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26562	From: lauragalbraithrn@comcast.net	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: best way to move?

I don't know if anyone one else has a better suggestion but this is how my husband and I moved our fish tank recently 600 miles we took out all of the water and got clean buckets with lids from our fish store and saved as much of the water that we could fit in the trunk of our car( we put the plants in a little bit of water in plastic bags in the buckets), bought a cooler that you take on a picnic and drilled a hole in the top of it with a dremmel big enough for a heater and a bubbler to fit inside of it. Then bought enough of those throw away plastic glad containers in sizes for our fish and drilled holes in them also (so each fish had their own little apartment house for the trip) and plugged the heater and the bubbler into one of those converters into the lighter in the car. The people at the fish store told us we would probably lose half of our fish and offered to take them back and give us money for them but they all survived without a problem. I have been lurking around for about 6 months =) Laura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26563	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Painted Tetras

Paula, We moan and we groan about the "painted" fish and they just keep coming. At one time they were hand painted, now they use dyes and lasers to decorate the fish. The actual painting is stressful on the fish. Living with it, not so stressful. However, the paints will flake off, the dyes will eventually fade away. I don't know about the lasered designs, though. As for the bettas, the ones you see in the stores do not even scratch the surface. You have your single tail, and your double tailed betas,. The crowntail is another tail form (ST). You have veil-tails and delta tails and half moons. The other one you saw in the store is known as plakat, and is close to the natural form of the _Betta splendens_. Then you have your colors. There are solid colors, pastels, butterfly patterns, and Cambodian. You certainly do not want to forget the iridescent, or the opaques, the multi-colored, or, well, I think you get the idea. All the above are just from one species of Betta. There are many other betas as well, general known as wild betas. When I helped put together a booklet on the wild betas about 30 years ago, there were not nearly so many as there are today. There are more than 60 recognized Betta species, and more that are yet to be classified. Among the bubblenesters, in the wild species, there are also mouthbrooders. I'd like to be able to direct you to the betasibc.org site, but they do not do a good job for the lay person (i.e. not a betta fanatic), and I suspect a lot of the good stuff is probably locked away, only available to members of the International betta Congress (IBC). (If anyone here is a member, I'd like to get the latest copy of the judging standards, if you would be so kind.) The stores are not even scratching the surface, so far as betas are concerned (and this goes for many other fish groups as well.) For those of you who are interested in a specific group of fish, I strongly urge you to search out a regional, national, or international group to get access to literature not otherwise available, and fish, also not otherwise available. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 1:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Painted Tetras I just found a new (to me) fish store down the street from work. Typical place - overcrowded with tanks and boxes. They had two cages for puppies/kittens but luckily they were empty. If I find out that they sell puppies/kittens, I will not shop there. Anyways, they had Painted Tetras which I had never seen before. Some of them had a horizontal strip down the middle with blue, yellow and green. Some had vertical stripes of blue, yellow and green. Some had pokadots on them. I am assuming this is cruel but how do that do that? With needles and dye? Other than that, the tanks were all very clean. I didn't have time to talk to anybody though to see if they were knowledgable though. They also had three different types of Bettas: the regular ones that you see everywhere, the crowntails (which I will be getting one soon!), and a short-finned roundtail which I had never seen before. Until recently, I thought there was only one type of Betta! Paula in Monroe, Michigan ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26564	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

PWC's, while maybe annoying to fish, is nothing compared to the stress they feel from having poor water quality (elevated ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, hormones, etc.). In your follow-up reply, you identified your algae eater as a CAE, which technically should be called an IAE (Indian Algae Eater) since they are not from China. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html They grow to over 10" and need a large tank. They are tolerant of harder water so the salt should not bother them but maybe someone else will chime in on this. I don't recall ever reading anything about not using salt with CAE's. You should probably get a heater for the tank so it will maintain a consistent tropical temp of 78-82F depending on the average needs of your fish. Especially in smaller tanks where the water can change temperature rapidly depending on the room temp. I have a blog where I did an experiment on a 10G with a simulated heater failure in the stuck off position and then in the stuck on position to show how fast the water temperature drops and/or rises. If the temp changes more than 1-2F per day, some fish will start to show stress or succumb to bacterial issues. Water getting too cool, too fast, is also a common cause of an Ich flare up. Have you taken either of the free online tutorials I have listed on my blog "A to Z of fish keeping"? Since you are trying to learn, it would be well advised for you to take these tutorials. Yes, if you over clean your filters, you could put your tank into a mini-cycle. While it's best to rinse out your filter media in removed tank water or dechlored tap water, rinsing it with your tap water for a short time period will usually not kill off all of the nitrifying bacteria... if the tap water is around the same temp as the tank. If you used hot water, that would kill off the bacteria quicker. While I don't recommend thoroughly washing off the filter media, especially for newer tanks, unplanted tanks or tanks with a single filter system, your chlorine/chloramine levels in tap water do not instantly kill bacteria so some should survive. If your filter system will hold two cartridges, then it is a good idea to have two running all the time so you can alternate thoroughly clean one every couple of weeks. If you can't fit two cartridges, then get some extra filter media (floss pad, sponge, bio-balls, etc.) and leave it in the reservoir so it stays fully cycled at all times. This is also a good way to have extra media always cycled if you need to set up a Q-tank or H-tank or new tank. You should probably start keeping a log of your tanks, test results, things done to the tanks, etc. When I first started, I use to keep a spreadsheet on my computer to log all of my test results and events. Once you have a tank set up for a while and learn a proper regimen for the tank, then you can slack off on keeping all of the numbers or even doing tests but for the first six months or more, it's a good idea to test regularly so you will learn how fast the water quality is deteriorating, etc. Yes, you NEED an ammonia test kit.. especially as a newbie and with new tanks. They do sell the API individual test kits and I think the ammonia kit is around $5-7.00 at Petsmart.com and the local stores will match the online price if you print the page. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > Whenever something is wrong, the first thing you should do is a PWC and > gravel vacuum since poor water quality is the leading cause of fish > problems. Next, do a filter cleaning to get rid of any excess detritus (see > my blog article about doing proper filter maintenance and cleaning). I will do that later today :-) I wasn't sure if the partial watr change could stress them out and cause whatever it is to get worse. My mom's boyfriend says they look like they are doing exactly what bass do when they have a nest. But these are all live bearers, so I dunno what they are doing. > I would start by raising the salinity level depending on what the "tiny > algae eater" is. You need to find out the species and see if they are salt > tolerant as many catfish aren't... if it's a catfish. I don't think it is a catfish, I will have to google algae eaters and try to find pictures to identify it. How much salt would you put in it if it is a 20 gallon tank? Oh, and the big gourami in the little tank is laying on the bottom a lot, too, but he is one of the fish with brown on him, so maybe he just doesn't feel good? That is the tank that is getting the Jungle Lifeguard stuff, can I still put salt in it? How much for a 5 gallon? I have a box of aquarium salt, so I would be using that. Oh, and the two sick fish in the tiny tank (5 gallon) are getting a bigger tank tomorrow (10 gallon). > You should also increase the O2 levels in tank by > increasing surface agitation. Well, I have a long bubble stone and a small round bubble stone in the 20 gallon tank (the one with the fish on the bottom). I can turn the air up, but it makes it look like the water is boiling, almost...because of so many bubbles...if that's ok, I'll crank it up. > This article explains the uses and doses of > salt. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> Oops, disregard the above questions about salt, then :-) > 76-78F is not "hot" for tropical fish. It's on the low end of the scale for > them. What was the normal temperature of the tank prior to this heat spell? Mostly it hangs around 74...usually 76....I know that 78 isn't much of an increase, but it was higher than normal. > What might you have done that might have thrown your tank back into a cycle? Well, last time I gravel vacuumed, I used the sprayer on the kitchen sink to wash out the filter (it had brown goo on it, and my water was cloudy, so I rinsed it and it cleared up overnight). Someone told me I probably restarted the cycle because of rinsing the good bacteria out of the filter. Suggested putting two cartridges in the one filter so I could alternate rinsing them. That way I always have good bacteris in one of them, at least. > You stated that your test results were OK. What were the numbers for > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you have? Uhm, I threw away the strip, but it was: ph 7.5 nitrite and nitrate I am not 100% sure...it was one of these two combinations: if the nitrite was 0, then the nitrate was about 40. If the nitrate was 0, then the nitrite was about 1. The two tests are next to each other and I don't remember which one was pink (meaning more than 0). I'm thinking it was the nitrate that was pink (meaning 40) because I had read somewhere that is a good level to have the tank at and when I looked at the test, I wasn't worried. I don't have an ammonia test. Need to get that big master kit, but don't have the money at the moment (should soon, though). thanks a ton! anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26565	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

1 level teaspoon per gallon will bring the salinity up to 0.1%. You would mix the salt with some removed tank water and slowly add it to the tank over the course of several hours to give the fish a chance to acclimate to the salt. Over the next 24 hours, increase the salinity to 0.3%. If you are already using other meds, you may not be able to use salt. I think you may have asked this in another message. Sorry but I help people in several different forums so it's difficult for me to remember everyone's tank sizes, fish stocking, meds or even problems. It's best to keep the entire thread attached to your replies like I kept your original message with this reply. It also makes it easier for someone else to see what's going on and maybe chime in with more info. I think I already told you but you should really take those online tutorials that I have referenced on my blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? Ok, new problem...I don't understand the site you sent me to :-( It is a wealth of info, but I am just not understanding... How much salt am I supposed to use? anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26566	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: help again..=(

What do you mean by "left some charcoal floating"? If you have a master test kit to test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, you could use your test results to give you an idea of how frequent you will need to do PWC's. Try to stick with 25% PWC's although 1/3rd isn't bad. Try to avoid large PWC's unless it's an emergency since you could change the water parameters too much, too fast, which can cause shock issues to your fish. Do you have a master test kit or any kind of tests? You're not a murderer... well, not unless you go to the store where you got the fish and strangle the people there for giving you such bad advice. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of waves02 Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 7:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help again..=( the two fancy goldfish...frito and cheeto... that were in a small tank.. well, am going to get a larger tank... so, in the meanwhile... I did partial water changes with amquel added... about 1/3 then the next day.. 1/3... they are tipping downward... I know that I left some charcoal floating... will this make them die.. I feel like a murderer.. caroline No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26567	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Member and help needed already eh? Pregnant Guppy

I've never kept guppies or live bearers so I can't help with any details but hopefully someone else will chime in. In the meantime, here's a website with more details and info.. all about guppy breeding. http://www.guppies.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/guppy-breeding-4.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russ Foley Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member and help needed already eh? Pregnant Guppy Hi folks. Just joined up and I am in need of help already. Sorta new to tanks and the tank is doing good. Just been to the shop and bought some more guppies and noticed that 3 or so of them are pregnant. We had a pregnant one before and it died. Now we want to try and get it right this time. HELP Need help from anyone who has had pregnant guppies. Does each female guppy have to go in a seperate net. Also at what point should they go in the net as they were in the main tank. Help help help... I want this to work this time. Hate seeing it fail Russ n Sarah No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26568	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about my pleco

What kind of pleco? A Common or ??? What size tank? What other fish? How long has tank been set up? It's good that you have plenty of filtration but are you still doing frequent, at least weekly, 25% PWC's? Since you mention cycling, I'm guessing the tank is kind of new. What are your test result numbers? Are they consistent with past test results? You might also want to try the emergency forums http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=42 at http://www.plecofanatics.com since the folks over there are well.. pleco fanatics. Get as much info together as possible in your first post as the more info you provide up front, the faster people can help you without having to play 64 questions first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 9:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about my pleco We have a large pleco that as of today is not doing well. We change the water regularly and have a system set in place. We are probaly overfilering the water, but we have 2 hang on the back filters (Emperors) and a Fluval running on the tank. Tank is very establsihed, with no newbies added and no one has been sick or died. All water test are good, haven't had anything out of line snce first setting up the tank (mormal spikes during cycling). I noticed this morning he wasn't moving around as much, not all that unusual for his size. Tonight he was at the bottom on the tank, half on the glass, half on the sand. I thought he looked in a wierd position so I moved him to lay flat. He di not take off as he mormally would. He body is VERY faded in a few spots on his tail and lower back near his tail. Almost like he is dying and losing his black. We put some zuchini swuash in tonight and he would noramlly go crazy for it, and we put it right next to his head, nothing. Any suggestions? Jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26569	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: New Member and help needed already eh? Pregnant Guppy

As long as the tank is well planted you shouldn't need a net. I have kept and bred guppies in a tank with other fish. As long as the babies had some where to hide they should be fine. i had anacharis floating at the surface as well as planted in the tank. In fact that tank quickly had an overpopulation of fish that had to be constantly thinned out. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26570	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: best way to move?

Generally, the tank is the last thing you "pack" and the first thing you move into your new home, however, you do need to be prepared, so you can do this efficiently. I say generally, but I made a move similar to yours and the tanks were among the first things to be moved because we had the time staying at our old residence for a month after the new one was ready, so I moved over one or two tanks a day until all 20 had been moved (other stuff was moved as well. (Worked pretty well as we only had to borrow a friend's truck for a few trips to haul the stuff that would not fit into our cars.) If it is possible, test the tap water at your new residence to see how similar it is to your current tap water. This will help you determine if you need to move all your tank water or only some of it. The closer the water parameters are the less water you need to move, but I would want to keep at least 30% of it so your fish would seem to have a massive water change rather than going into all new water.. Depending on the amount of water, a couple or more of the Rubbermaid brand trash cans can be used for the water. Just siphon the water into them. You'll probably want to limit the amount of water placed in each one so that you can move it without fear of being bed ridden (or couch ridden depending on where the TV is <g>) for a day or two. You do not mention what you have for fish, their size, or their number. Here is where the large cooler you have will come in handy. You will need to bag the fish, using just enough water to cover the fish when the bag is laid on its side. Pack them in the cooler. Once you have the fish bagged, remove the rest of the water. If you have plants, you can leave a small bit of water in the tank, a bit more than to keep the substrate wet, and cover with old newspapers (black and white pages only) to help keep them moist during the move. Remove your filter, heater, etc. If you have rock in the tank, I'd also pull that out, so if there is any shifting during the move, you do not need to worry about the tock cracking the glass. Same goes with driftwood. With help, move the tank to the vehicle, keeping it as level as you can--remember, you still have some water in there, as well as the substrate. If you can, place the tank in the vehicle on some foam or Styrofoam to minimize any irregularities in the floor of the vehicle and to help keep the tank stable while the vehicle is moving. When you get it to your new home, move the tank to its new quarters, refill, and make sure everything is operational. Put the fish back in. Complete the rest of your move. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thtanoyinguy Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 12:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] best way to move? in the next 2 months or so we are going to be moving out of our house and into a new one. i currently have a 70 gal tank that is full of fish. by my calculations my tank wieghs about 630 lbs full.( i wieghed 5 gallons of water and it came 2 39.5lbs, and 70/39.5 is 14, so 14x39.5 is 553 and the tank itself wieghed about 70 lbs so i am figuring it 2 be 630 lbs when full.) when we do move it'll only be 30 minutes at the max from where we are now. what's the best way to move? i've been working out at the gym but ain't no way i'm gonna move that.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26571	From: Bobby & Jennifer	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about my pleco

It's some type of common pleco (very black), about 18 inches. The tank is 175 gallons, and has cichlids in the tank. For a cichlid tank, it is very peaceful, everyone pretty much has their spot and very rarely do you see any aggression. The tank has been set up for over 2 years. Never had an illness, or death of another fish in the tank. I know about cycling, and that occurred long ago! (with no fish in the tank). We haven't had any abnormal readings in I can't tell you how long, It is checked regularly because some of the cichlids we have are hard to find around here and have some size to them. As for the water changes, EVERY Sunday, every tank, (6) without fail. He continued to lose his colors last night, like his body was dying off bit by bit. This morning he was dead. Any suggestions as to what would have caused this? Jenn -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 12:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about my pleco What kind of pleco? A Common or ??? What size tank? What other fish? How long has tank been set up? It's good that you have plenty of filtration but are you still doing frequent, at least weekly, 25% PWC's? Since you mention cycling, I'm guessing the tank is kind of new. What are your test result numbers? Are they consistent with past test results? You might also want to try the emergency forums http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=42 at http://www.plecofanatics.com since the folks over there are well.. pleco fanatics. Get as much info together as possible in your first post as the more info you provide up front, the faster people can help you without having to play 64 questions first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 9:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about my pleco We have a large pleco that as of today is not doing well. We change the water regularly and have a system set in place. We are probaly overfilering the water, but we have 2 hang on the back filters (Emperors) and a Fluval running on the tank. Tank is very establsihed, with no newbies added and no one has been sick or died. All water test are good, haven't had anything out of line snce first setting up the tank (mormal spikes during cycling). I noticed this morning he wasn't moving around as much, not all that unusual for his size. Tonight he was at the bottom on the tank, half on the glass, half on the sand. I thought he looked in a wierd position so I moved him to lay flat. He di not take off as he mormally would. He body is VERY faded in a few spots on his tail and lower back near his tail. Almost like he is dying and losing his black. We put some zuchini swuash in tonight and he would noramlly go crazy for it, and we put it right next to his head, nothing. Any suggestions? Jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26572	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Lenny I should clarify...I have a PhD in Animal Science and a Master's in Reproductive Physiology, and I'm the professor of Biology that oversees the projects. I study fish genetics, mostly in the "genomics" area, and I typically work with food fish (Rainbow Trout and Lepomis species). I am currently working with grant funds to study the genetics of the wild and hatchery-maintained stocks of green sunfish. The zebra I am talking about is the danio, a fish that has been used in research for years due to the clarity of the egg and embryo and early fry. The GMO fish--especially one kept by people in the hobby--holds no threat for those of us not in tropical regions. The danio, if unwanted, is likely to be target of getting flushed down the loo...not typically the same problem of the larger fish. I'm unsure why you think the GMO danio would be a problem--danios have never been reported as an invasive, which is why the US decided NOT to ban them in the hobby. I know the GMO issue is a split in the aquarium-keeping community, but it's getting more students excited about fish, and it lulls them in to looking @ other species. Nothing's neater than seeing a BRIGHT little fry! I am only offering a swap for other species because: 1. You can buy these fish locally...maybe not our specific color crosses, but unless you are in CA or over seas (some countries) you can purchase them for $5-10. I'm not sure what the difference is between me swapping species vs. someone purchasing them. 2. I'd rather trade them so we can increase our number of species in the lab more economically. If someone wants these fish, great, and if they can swap with me...well, that helps me run an economical, student-friendly aquatic project. I really don't see much difference between the GMO danio and importation of other unique, "new to the hobby" species--other than the fact that danios are hardy and the "new" species are often poorly and/or incorrectly cared for resulting in their untimely death. If we can engineer "new" fish this way and people like them, I think that's great, as it reduces the impact on the wild-caught species of Asia, SA, etc... Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Amanda, > > Make sure you call them Zebra Danio's or their latin name Brachydanio Rerio > since Zebrafish is a not-often-used older common name and there are other > species that are called Zebrafish as well. I know the Glofish.com site > calls them Zebrafish but it's not a good practice... especially for a future > mad scientist. ;-) > > If I was you, I'd be very careful about trading any of these cross breeds. > While I appreciate the science and experimentation you are doing (I was a > biology major in college also), you must take precautions that these fish > never get released into the wild. Please reconsider your offer and plan to > keep all the offspring in a controlled environment. We simply do not know > what the long term effects of these genetic glofish enhancements may be and > besides that, zebra danio's are already on the top of the list of many > non-indigenous invasive species in America so we don't need a bunch of > glowing mutant ZD's swimming wild in our lakes and streams. Besides, they > might compete with my day-glo artificial lures when I'm trying to catch that > lunker bass or trout!!! ;-) > c Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26573	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

My b/f wants some of the "glo-fish" but when we asked our fish guy about them he said he wouldnt recommend getting these fish as they arent to sure about them yet. Meaning they may have problems or not live long. -----Original Message----- From: abarker3wvuedu <amandabstewart@...> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny I should clarify...I have a PhD in Animal Science and a Master's in Reproductive Physiology, and I'm the professor of Biology that oversees the projects. I study fish genetics, mostly in the "genomics" area, and I typically work with food fish (Rainbow Trout and Lepomis species). I am currently working with grant funds to study the genetics of the wild and hatchery-maintained stocks of green sunfish. The zebra I am talking about is the danio, a fish that has been used in research for years due to the clarity of the egg and embryo and early fry. The GMO fish--especially one kept by people in the hobby--holds no threat for those of us not in tropical regions. The danio, if unwanted, is likely to be target of getting flushed down the loo...not typically the same problem of the larger fish. I'm unsure why you think the GMO danio would be a problem--danios have never been reported as an invasive, which is why the US decided NOT to ban them in the hobby. I know the GMO issue is a split in the aquarium-keeping community, but it's getting more students excited about fish, and it lulls them in to looking @ other species. Nothing's neater than seeing a BRIGHT little fry! I am only offering a swap for other species because: 1. You can buy these fish locally...maybe not our specific color crosses, but unless you are in CA or over seas (some countries) you can purchase them for $5-10. I'm not sure what the difference is between me swapping species vs. someone purchasing them. 2. I'd rather trade them so we can increase our number of species in the lab more economically. If someone wants these fish, great, and if they can swap with me...well, that helps me run an economical, student-friendly aquatic project. I really don't see much difference between the GMO danio and importation of other unique, "new to the hobby" species--other than the fact that danios are hardy and the "new" species are often poorly and/or incorrectly cared for resulting in their untimely death. If we can engineer "new" fish this way and people like them, I think that's great, as it reduces the impact on the wild-caught species of Asia, SA, etc... Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Amanda, > > Make sure you call them Zebra Danio's or their latin name Brachydanio Rerio > since Zebrafish is a not-often-used older common name and there are other > species that are called Zebrafish as well. I know the Glofish.com site > calls them Zebrafish but it's not a good practice... especially for a future > mad scientist. ;-) > > If I was you, I'd be very careful about trading any of these cross breeds. > While I appreciate the science and experimentation you are doing (I was a > biology major in college also), you must take precautions that these fish > never get released into the wild. Please reconsider your offer and plan to > keep all the offspring in a controlled environment. We simply do not know > what the long term effects of these genetic glofish enhancements may be and > besides that, zebra danio's are already on the top of the list of many > non-indigenous invasive species in America so we don't need a bunch of > glowing mutant ZD's swimming wild in our lakes and streams. Besides, they > might compete with my day-glo artificial lures when I'm trying to catch that > lunker bass or trout!!! ;-) > c Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26574	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

Ok, I have a heater in every tank, but when it started getting too hot in the house and the tanks were getting up to like 84* I turned the heaters down...it holds pretty steady around 76* but when the house heats up too much, it goes up. I don't think they make air conditioners for tanks :-) As for my algae eaters, when they start to get bigger and I think they are too big for my tank, I have a friend with a 90 gallon that they will go to, if I haven't ended up getting a bigger tank by then (which I probably won't...but my friend wants them when they get big). They are only a few inches at most right now. On a side note, I am a little excited because I got the alage eater in the 20 gallon tank (the one that has the bottom-sitting, clamped-fin fish in it) to eat zucchini. I don't think I have much algae being my tank is still pretty new (though there IS something brown on the edges of some of the leaves on my one fake plant), so I am happy to see him eating something and knowing in my head he isn't starving :-) I talked to a guy at Petsmart (I know they are not gurus, and most don't know much, but this guy actually seemed to know a lot, I think) and he said the fish doing this "body wagging" thing they have been doing is called "shimmying" and he thinks it is a bacterial infection (of course he says he can't say much without actually seeing the fish, but it sounds bacterial from what I have told him - same stuff I have told you). So, I am thinking about getting some Melafix...can I add that AND salt to the water??? Also, could a bacterial infection cause them to lay on the bottom like they are??? What could have caused a bacterial infection if that is what it is? I haven't added any fish for a couple of weeks...but I don't know how long it would take for it them to show signs if that fish brought something in with him. Or could ammonia or dirty gravel cause it? Ohhhhh, maybe THAT was it...you said something about water temperature changes causing the fish to succumb to bacterial issues...When the heater was maintaining the tank at 76 and the weather got hot, and the temperature spiked up to like 84, then I got it to drop to 76 again...that happened pretty quickly...I didn't think water could change temperature so quickly in so many gallons. If it is bacterial, will Melafix take care of it? If I have a pregnant fish (which I think I do), and I put her into a clean clean tank, will the babies survive? The tank would be brand new and cycling, but I can put the filter from my one tank that is having no problems into the tank with the mama fish and babies, will that help cycling??? Oh, and I added live plants to my 20 gallon bottom-sitting fins- clamped fish tank. There is still a fake floating in the top to give them hiding places, but I took out the rest of the fakes and replaced with live...all the fakes have this brown stuff on them...I know there is some kind of brown colored algae...maybe I should take the fake floating plant out, too? To get all that brown stuff out of the tank??? I have had the best intentions and have been meaning to do the tutorials on your site, just keep forgetting. (might have a touch of ADHD on that one...just can't sit still for that long...I don't watch many movies either). So, can I use the kitchen sink sprayer on kinda high pressure with cold water or similar to tank water temperature on the filter cartridges? Just to get the brown goo off the outside for the most part. Filter doesn't do much with that on there. I will see if I can squeeze another cartridge into that filter, too. It is a 5-15 gallon filter system on a 20 gallon tank (gotta get some cartridges for the bigger system so I can switch them out...maybe put a used smaller cartridge from the current system into the bigger one with a new right sized cartridge so I don't lose all the good stuff in it?) I haven't seen any white on my fish that doesn't belong...until I started adding some salt. Now the black molly has white on him...but I also noticed I have a LOT more teeny tiny bubbles in the water...not sure why on that one...so I don't know if it is bubbles sticking to the fish, or something to worry about. anndrea --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > PWC's, while maybe annoying to fish, is nothing compared to the stress they > feel from having poor water quality (elevated ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, > hormones, etc.). > > In your follow-up reply, you identified your algae eater as a CAE, which > technically should be called an IAE (Indian Algae Eater) since they are not > from China. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html > They grow to over 10" and need a large tank. They are tolerant of harder > water so the salt should not bother them but maybe someone else will chime > in on this. I don't recall ever reading anything about not using salt with > CAE's. > > You should probably get a heater for the tank so it will maintain a > consistent tropical temp of 78-82F depending on the average needs of your > fish. Especially in smaller tanks where the water can change temperature > rapidly depending on the room temp. I have a blog where I did an experiment > on a 10G with a simulated heater failure in the stuck off position and then > in the stuck on position to show how fast the water temperature drops and/or > rises. If the temp changes more than 1-2F per day, some fish will start to > show stress or succumb to bacterial issues. Water getting too cool, too > fast, is also a common cause of an Ich flare up. > > Have you taken either of the free online tutorials I have listed on my blog > "A to Z of fish keeping"? Since you are trying to learn, it would be well > advised for you to take these tutorials. > > Yes, if you over clean your filters, you could put your tank into a > mini-cycle. While it's best to rinse out your filter media in removed tank > water or dechlored tap water, rinsing it with your tap water for a short > time period will usually not kill off all of the nitrifying bacteria... if > the tap water is around the same temp as the tank. If you used hot water, > that would kill off the bacteria quicker. While I don't recommend > thoroughly washing off the filter media, especially for newer tanks, > unplanted tanks or tanks with a single filter system, your > chlorine/chloramine levels in tap water do not instantly kill bacteria so > some should survive. > > If your filter system will hold two cartridges, then it is a good idea to > have two running all the time so you can alternate thoroughly clean one > every couple of weeks. If you can't fit two cartridges, then get some extra > filter media (floss pad, sponge, bio-balls, etc.) and leave it in the > reservoir so it stays fully cycled at all times. This is also a good way to > have extra media always cycled if you need to set up a Q-tank or H- tank or > new tank. > > You should probably start keeping a log of your tanks, test results, things > done to the tanks, etc. When I first started, I use to keep a spreadsheet > on my computer to log all of my test results and events. Once you have a > tank set up for a while and learn a proper regimen for the tank, then you > can slack off on keeping all of the numbers or even doing tests but for the > first six months or more, it's a good idea to test regularly so you will > learn how fast the water quality is deteriorating, etc. > > Yes, you NEED an ammonia test kit.. especially as a newbie and with new > tanks. They do sell the API individual test kits and I think the ammonia > kit is around $5-7.00 at Petsmart.com and the local stores will match the > online price if you print the page. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Anndrea > Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > > > Whenever something is wrong, the first thing you should do is a PWC > and > > gravel vacuum since poor water quality is the leading cause of fish > > problems. Next, do a filter cleaning to get rid of any excess > detritus (see > > my blog article about doing proper filter maintenance and > cleaning). > > I will do that later today :-) I wasn't sure if the partial watr > change could stress them out and cause whatever it is to get worse. > My mom's boyfriend says they look like they are doing exactly what > bass do when they have a nest. But these are all live bearers, so I > dunno what they are doing. > > > I would start by raising the salinity level depending on what > the "tiny > > algae eater" is. You need to find out the species and see if they > are salt > > tolerant as many catfish aren't... if it's a catfish. > > I don't think it is a catfish, I will have to google algae eaters and > try to find pictures to identify it. How much salt would you put in > it if it is a 20 gallon tank? Oh, and the big gourami in the little > tank is laying on the bottom a lot, too, but he is one of the fish > with brown on him, so maybe he just doesn't feel good? That is the > tank that is getting the Jungle Lifeguard stuff, can I still put salt > in it? How much for a 5 gallon? I have a box of aquarium salt, so I > would be using that. Oh, and the two sick fish in the tiny tank (5 > gallon) are getting a bigger tank tomorrow (10 gallon). > > > You should also increase the O2 levels in tank by > > increasing surface agitation. > > Well, I have a long bubble stone and a small round bubble stone in > the 20 gallon tank (the one with the fish on the bottom). I can turn > the air up, but it makes it look like the water is boiling, > almost...because of so many bubbles...if that's ok, I'll crank it up. > > > This article explains the uses and doses of > > salt. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > Oops, disregard the above questions about salt, then :-) > > > 76-78F is not "hot" for tropical fish. It's on the low end of the > scale for > > them. What was the normal temperature of the tank prior to this > heat spell? > > Mostly it hangs around 74...usually 76....I know that 78 isn't much > of an increase, but it was higher than normal. > > > What might you have done that might have thrown your tank back into > a cycle? > > Well, last time I gravel vacuumed, I used the sprayer on the kitchen > sink to wash out the filter (it had brown goo on it, and my water was > cloudy, so I rinsed it and it cleared up overnight). Someone told me > I probably restarted the cycle because of rinsing the good bacteria > out of the filter. Suggested putting two cartridges in the one filter > so I could alternate rinsing them. That way I always have good > bacteris in one of them, at least. > > > You stated that your test results were OK. What were the numbers > for > > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you have? > > Uhm, I threw away the strip, but it was: > ph 7.5 > nitrite and nitrate I am not 100% sure...it was one of these two > combinations: if the nitrite was 0, then the nitrate was about 40. If > the nitrate was 0, then the nitrite was about 1. > > The two tests are next to each other and I don't remember which one > was pink (meaning more than 0). > > I'm thinking it was the nitrate that was pink (meaning 40) because I > had read somewhere that is a good level to have the tank at and when > I looked at the test, I wasn't worried. > > I don't have an ammonia test. Need to get that big master kit, but > don't have the money at the moment (should soon, though). > > thanks a ton! > anndrea > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 > 12:33 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26575	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab

Amanda here also in Canada in research center they call it Zebra, Zebra Fish or Danio fish Danio , that’s the common name in laboratory. They grow they in huge quantity in trout and salmon laboratory too. I guess if someone release them in the wild they will made a good snack to the trout and sunfish. :-) -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de abarker3wvuedu Envoyé : March 15, 2008 12:36 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny I should clarify...I have a PhD in Animal Science and a Master's in Reproductive Physiology, and I'm the professor of Biology that oversees the projects. I study fish genetics, mostly in the "genomics" area, and I typically work with food fish (Rainbow Trout and Lepomis species). I am currently working with grant funds to study the genetics of the wild and hatchery-maintained stocks of green sunfish. The zebra I am talking about is the danio, a fish that has been used in research for years due to the clarity of the egg and embryo and early fry. The GMO fish--especially one kept by people in the hobby--holds no threat for those of us not in tropical regions. The danio, if unwanted, is likely to be target of getting flushed down the loo...not typically the same problem of the larger fish. I'm unsure why you think the GMO danio would be a problem--danios have never been reported as an invasive, which is why the US decided NOT to ban them in the hobby. I know the GMO issue is a split in the aquarium-keeping community, but it's getting more students excited about fish, and it lulls them in to looking @ other species. Nothing's neater than seeing a BRIGHT little fry! I am only offering a swap for other species because: 1. You can buy these fish locally...maybe not our specific color crosses, but unless you are in CA or over seas (some countries) you can purchase them for $5-10. I'm not sure what the difference is between me swapping species vs. someone purchasing them. 2. I'd rather trade them so we can increase our number of species in the lab more economically. If someone wants these fish, great, and if they can swap with me...well, that helps me run an economical, student-friendly aquatic project. I really don't see much difference between the GMO danio and importation of other unique, "new to the hobby" species--other than the fact that danios are hardy and the "new" species are often poorly and/or incorrectly cared for resulting in their untimely death. If we can engineer "new" fish this way and people like them, I think that's great, as it reduces the impact on the wild-caught species of Asia, SA, etc... Amanda --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Amanda, > > Make sure you call them Zebra Danio's or their latin name Brachydanio Rerio > since Zebrafish is a not-often-used older common name and there are other > species that are called Zebrafish as well. I know the Glofish.com site > calls them Zebrafish but it's not a good practice... especially for a future > mad scientist. ;-) > > If I was you, I'd be very careful about trading any of these cross breeds. > While I appreciate the science and experimentation you are doing (I was a > biology major in college also), you must take precautions that these fish > never get released into the wild. Please reconsider your offer and plan to > keep all the offspring in a controlled environment. We simply do not know > what the long term effects of these genetic glofish enhancements may be and > besides that, zebra danio's are already on the top of the list of many > non-indigenous invasive species in America so we don't need a bunch of > glowing mutant ZD's swimming wild in our lakes and streams. Besides, they > might compete with my day-glo artificial lures when I'm trying to catch that > lunker bass or trout!!! ;-) > c Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26576	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Amanda said (among other things): "...The GMO fish--especially one kept by people in the hobby--holds no threat for those of us not in tropical regions...." Amanda, I'm glad they don't pose a threat to you in your non-tropical region but I happen to live on the Gulf Coast where they do pose a potential problem. It's nice to know you don't care about us down here. ;-) It reminds me of how the rest of the country doesn't want oil drilling off their coasts but they don't give a crap that the Gulf Coast is providing much of the oil production for the entire country but then they don't want to give us sufficient royalties to preserve our eroding coastlines. I'd like to shut down all of our wells for a year and see how everyone feels then... when you're freezing your butts off due to limited supply of heating oil. Oh well, that's enough of that rant! You are WRONG when saying ZD's have never been reported as an invasive species. Zebra Danio's are listed on this "official" non-native invasive species site along with many other non-native invasive species affecting the Gulf Coast region of the USA. http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php Sure, they aren't as much of a problem as some other non-native invasive species but zebra danios are very hardy, cold-water fish and can survive and thrive in the winters of the southern regions so who knows what the future may bring. Further, the majority of responsible fish keepers/breeders frown heavily on cross-breeding to make "new" fish. While it may be "exciting" to the scientific community, it may not be the best thing for the hobby, the fish or the long-term environmental implications. Like I said earlier, we simply do not have enough information to know what the long term implications will be from these genetically altered fish... and then with the further genetic effects/mutations of cross-breeding... well, who knows? Certainly you don't or you wouldn't be excited about doing these experiments. Once again, I'm all for doing research but I'm not for releasing the results of the experiments to untrained people who may not be as responsible. And as far as your comment about them not being banned... that doesn't mean they won't cause a problem in the future. Haven't you watched the news lately? Drugs, foods and products are constantly approved by the FDA or other Washington bureaucracies, only to be recalled months or years later after they are found to cause problems, even deaths to people who used them, thinking they were safe. I'm a conservative republican but I certainly do not have much faith in the Federal government to know what they are doing. Washington messes up things far more often than they get them right! It's the reason for my main political slogan... "Name one thing that government does efficiently and effectively? NOTHING!", which is why I don't want them controlling our health care in the future. Look at the mess they've made of public education (lower and higher), social security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA hospitals, etc., etc., etc. Heck, now they're even wasting MY money paying grants for doing cross-breeding experiments on Zebra Danio's. It's just another reason why I cheat so much on my taxes. I'm not gonna pay for all the crap that government wants to waste OUR money on. LOL The Constitution provides for a "common defense" and a few other limited federal programs but all of the other wasteful programs that Washington comes up with is just that... wasteful programs. At least all three of the wannabe Presidents are saying they will put an end to "ear-marks" (a nice word for wasteful government programs, grants, projects, etc.) that Congress constantly shoves into the federal budget each year. Unfortunately, Democrats have never shown much propensity for tightening the budget belt... well not since JFK. Heck, lately, even Republicans have joined in on the "Let's piss away all the taxpayers money" band-wagon. It's time for another Newt Gingrich in Congress... the last person in Congress who froze government spending as part of the Contract With America! OK.. I really am ending my rant this time! LOL (I think I might have to copy this post to my Rants & Raves blog. LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of abarker3wvuedu Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny I should clarify...I have a PhD in Animal Science and a Master's in Reproductive Physiology, and I'm the professor of Biology that oversees the projects. I study fish genetics, mostly in the "genomics" area, and I typically work with food fish (Rainbow Trout and Lepomis species). I am currently working with grant funds to study the genetics of the wild and hatchery-maintained stocks of green sunfish. The zebra I am talking about is the danio, a fish that has been used in research for years due to the clarity of the egg and embryo and early fry. The GMO fish--especially one kept by people in the hobby--holds no threat for those of us not in tropical regions. The danio, if unwanted, is likely to be target of getting flushed down the loo...not typically the same problem of the larger fish. I'm unsure why you think the GMO danio would be a problem--danios have never been reported as an invasive, which is why the US decided NOT to ban them in the hobby. I know the GMO issue is a split in the aquarium-keeping community, but it's getting more students excited about fish, and it lulls them in to looking @ other species. Nothing's neater than seeing a BRIGHT little fry! I am only offering a swap for other species because: 1. You can buy these fish locally...maybe not our specific color crosses, but unless you are in CA or over seas (some countries) you can purchase them for $5-10. I'm not sure what the difference is between me swapping species vs. someone purchasing them. 2. I'd rather trade them so we can increase our number of species in the lab more economically. If someone wants these fish, great, and if they can swap with me...well, that helps me run an economical, student-friendly aquatic project. I really don't see much difference between the GMO danio and importation of other unique, "new to the hobby" species--other than the fact that danios are hardy and the "new" species are often poorly and/or incorrectly cared for resulting in their untimely death. If we can engineer "new" fish this way and people like them, I think that's great, as it reduces the impact on the wild-caught species of Asia, SA, etc... Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Amanda, > > Make sure you call them Zebra Danio's or their latin name Brachydanio Rerio > since Zebrafish is a not-often-used older common name and there are other > species that are called Zebrafish as well. I know the Glofish.com site > calls them Zebrafish but it's not a good practice... especially for a future > mad scientist. ;-) > > If I was you, I'd be very careful about trading any of these cross breeds. > While I appreciate the science and experimentation you are doing (I was a > biology major in college also), you must take precautions that these fish > never get released into the wild. Please reconsider your offer and plan to > keep all the offspring in a controlled environment. We simply do not know > what the long term effects of these genetic glofish enhancements may be and > besides that, zebra danio's are already on the top of the list of many > non-indigenous invasive species in America so we don't need a bunch of > glowing mutant ZD's swimming wild in our lakes and streams. Besides, they > might compete with my day-glo artificial lures when I'm trying to catch that > lunker bass or trout!!! ;-) > c Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26577	From: waves02	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: help again..=(

well, this morning.. everything looks o.k. in the tank.. I do believe they were in a type of shock.. and the charcoal.. well, I dropped some charcoal in the filter.. and it came out into the water.. heaven help goldfish with beginners like me.. I am studying though.. I am using my test kit this morning.. thank you so much for the help... you would not believe how it is appreciated from this beginner. caroline At 11:23 PM 3/14/2008, you wrote: >What do you mean by "left some charcoal floating"? > >If you have a master test kit to test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, >you could use your test results to give you an idea of how frequent you will >need to do PWC's. Try to stick with 25% PWC's although 1/3rd isn't bad. >Try to avoid large PWC's unless it's an emergency since you could change the >water parameters too much, too fast, which can cause shock issues to your >fish. Do you have a master test kit or any kind of tests? > >You're not a murderer... well, not unless you go to the store where you got >the fish and strangle the people there for giving you such bad advice. ;-) > >Lenny Vasbinder >Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of waves02 >Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 7:23 PM >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help again..=( > >the two fancy goldfish...frito and cheeto... that were in a small tank.. >well, am going to get a larger tank... so, in the meanwhile... I did partial >water changes with amquel added... about 1/3 then the next day.. 1/3... they >are tipping downward... I know that I left some charcoal floating... will >this make them die.. I feel like a murderer.. caroline > > >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG. >Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 >12:33 PM > > > >------------------------------------ > >Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26578	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about my pleco

How old was he? How big was he when you added him to your tank? You would probably get more/better info by posting in the PlecoFanatics forums but to continue the discussion here... it's good that you were diligent with your weekly PWC's. Were you vacuuming the gravel with each PWC? I'm just trying to go over everything to see if we can hit on something. Was the cichlid tank filled with rocks? Did you blow out the detritus from the cracks/crevices of the rocks prior to doing PWC's? While your test results may have been fine, we do not have tests for bacteria levels that may be forming in excess detritus or mulm that might build up in/under decorations. Was he getting enough to eat? An 18" pleco is an eating machine. I know my last common pleco, that grew to 10" in my 65G before I rehomed him, kept the tank spotless but also ate voraciously on everything else that I fed him (algae thins, fresh veggies, the driftwood, etc.) They aren't the most astute fish in a tank so I know the cichlids would have beat him to any food unless special measures were taken to feed him. Which reminds me, did you have driftwood in the tank? Most pleco's (and definitely Common Plecos) need wood in their diets. Once again, I'm just brainstorming here since you asked what I thought might have caused his illness and death. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bobby & Jennifer Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about my pleco It's some type of common pleco (very black), about 18 inches. The tank is 175 gallons, and has cichlids in the tank. For a cichlid tank, it is very peaceful, everyone pretty much has their spot and very rarely do you see any aggression. The tank has been set up for over 2 years. Never had an illness, or death of another fish in the tank. I know about cycling, and that occurred long ago! (with no fish in the tank). We haven't had any abnormal readings in I can't tell you how long, It is checked regularly because some of the cichlids we have are hard to find around here and have some size to them. As for the water changes, EVERY Sunday, every tank, (6) without fail. He continued to lose his colors last night, like his body was dying off bit by bit. This morning he was dead. Any suggestions as to what would have caused this? Jenn -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 12:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about my pleco What kind of pleco? A Common or ??? What size tank? What other fish? How long has tank been set up? It's good that you have plenty of filtration but are you still doing frequent, at least weekly, 25% PWC's? Since you mention cycling, I'm guessing the tank is kind of new. What are your test result numbers? Are they consistent with past test results? You might also want to try the emergency forums http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=42 at http://www.plecofanatics.com since the folks over there are well.. pleco fanatics. Get as much info together as possible in your first post as the more info you provide up front, the faster people can help you without having to play 64 questions first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 9:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about my pleco We have a large pleco that as of today is not doing well. We change the water regularly and have a system set in place. We are probaly overfilering the water, but we have 2 hang on the back filters (Emperors) and a Fluval running on the tank. Tank is very establsihed, with no newbies added and no one has been sick or died. All water test are good, haven't had anything out of line snce first setting up the tank (mormal spikes during cycling). I noticed this morning he wasn't moving around as much, not all that unusual for his size. Tonight he was at the bottom on the tank, half on the glass, half on the sand. I thought he looked in a wierd position so I moved him to lay flat. He di not take off as he mormally would. He body is VERY faded in a few spots on his tail and lower back near his tail. Almost like he is dying and losing his black. We put some zuchini swuash in tonight and he would noramlly go crazy for it, and we put it right next to his head, nothing. Any suggestions? Jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26579	From: Russ Foley	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Russ and Sarah Welcome New Guppies

Well we went to a pet shop and ended up with a pile of pregnant guppies. Well we are in the middle of watching all the fish coming out. Seeing the fish being born and what looks like yellow eggs. We have opted for the breeding trap and so far I think we have counted between 15 and 20 lil ones... as I type one more has been born. Wow cool. This is the first time both myself and Sarah have experienced this and it is really nice to see new life in the tank. I have been movnig the new ones to a net to keep them safe. We have fast fish in our tank and nothing gets past them. A fry got down to a plant but did not last long at all. Anyway enjoying this new experience but wanted to share it with others. Russ n Sarah xx

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26580	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

I also don't see the attraction of cross-breeding to make "new" fish. For me the goal of an aquarium is to approximate a natural underwater world. Pressure on wild populations can be reduced by breeding the pure species in captivity in conditions that approximate the natural environment. Experienced fishkeepers spend a lot of time and effort trying to help newbies understand how to avoid creating hybrids accidentially, and then have the problem of what to do with them...since selling or trading them can only expand the problem. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Amanda said (among other things): "...The GMO fish--especially one kept by people in the hobby--holds no threat for those of us not in tropical regions...." Amanda, I'm glad they don't pose a threat to you in your non-tropical region but I happen to live on the Gulf Coast where they do pose a potential problem. It's nice to know you don't care about us down here. ;-) It reminds me of how the rest of the country doesn't want oil drilling off their coasts but they don't give a crap that the Gulf Coast is providing much of the oil production for the entire country but then they don't want to give us sufficient royalties to preserve our eroding coastlines. I'd like to shut down all of our wells for a year and see how everyone feels then... when you're freezing your butts off due to limited supply of heating oil. Oh well, that's enough of that rant! You are WRONG when saying ZD's have never been reported as an invasive species. Zebra Danio's are listed on this "official" non-native invasive species site along with many other non-native invasive species affecting the Gulf Coast region of the USA. http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php Sure, they aren't as much of a problem as some other non-native invasive species but zebra danios are very hardy, cold-water fish and can survive and thrive in the winters of the southern regions so who knows what the future may bring. Further, the majority of responsible fish keepers/breeders frown heavily on cross-breeding to make "new" fish. While it may be "exciting" to the scientific community, it may not be the best thing for the hobby, the fish or the long-term environmental implications. Like I said earlier, we simply do not have enough information to know what the long term implications will be from these genetically altered fish... and then with the further genetic effects/mutations of cross-breeding... well, who knows? Certainly you don't or you wouldn't be excited about doing these experiments. Once again, I'm all for doing research but I'm not for releasing the results of the experiments to untrained people who may not be as responsible. And as far as your comment about them not being banned... that doesn't mean they won't cause a problem in the future. Haven't you watched the news lately? Drugs, foods and products are constantly approved by the FDA or other Washington bureaucracies, only to be recalled months or years later after they are found to cause problems, even deaths to people who used them, thinking they were safe. I'm a conservative republican but I certainly do not have much faith in the Federal government to know what they are doing. Washington messes up things far more often than they get them right! It's the reason for my main political slogan... "Name one thing that government does efficiently and effectively? NOTHING!", which is why I don't want them controlling our health care in the future. Look at the mess they've made of public education (lower and higher), social security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA hospitals, etc., etc., etc. Heck, now they're even wasting MY money paying grants for doing cross-breeding experiments on Zebra Danio's. It's just another reason why I cheat so much on my taxes. I'm not gonna pay for all the crap that government wants to waste OUR money on. LOL The Constitution provides for a "common defense" and a few other limited federal programs but all of the other wasteful programs that Washington comes up with is just that... wasteful programs. At least all three of the wannabe Presidents are saying they will put an end to "ear-marks" (a nice word for wasteful government programs, grants, projects, etc.) that Congress constantly shoves into the federal budget each year. Unfortunately, Democrats have never shown much propensity for tightening the budget belt... well not since JFK. Heck, lately, even Republicans have joined in on the "Let's piss away all the taxpayers money" band-wagon. It's time for another Newt Gingrich in Congress... the last person in Congress who froze government spending as part of the Contract With America! OK.. I really am ending my rant this time! LOL (I think I might have to copy this post to my Rants & Raves blog. LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of abarker3wvuedu Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny I should clarify...I have a PhD in Animal Science and a Master's in Reproductive Physiology, and I'm the professor of Biology that oversees the projects. I study fish genetics, mostly in the "genomics" area, and I typically work with food fish (Rainbow Trout and Lepomis species). I am currently working with grant funds to study the genetics of the wild and hatchery-maintained stocks of green sunfish. The zebra I am talking about is the danio, a fish that has been used in research for years due to the clarity of the egg and embryo and early fry. The GMO fish--especially one kept by people in the hobby--holds no threat for those of us not in tropical regions. The danio, if unwanted, is likely to be target of getting flushed down the loo...not typically the same problem of the larger fish. I'm unsure why you think the GMO danio would be a problem--danios have never been reported as an invasive, which is why the US decided NOT to ban them in the hobby. I know the GMO issue is a split in the aquarium-keeping community, but it's getting more students excited about fish, and it lulls them in to looking @ other species. Nothing's neater than seeing a BRIGHT little fry! I am only offering a swap for other species because: 1. You can buy these fish locally...maybe not our specific color crosses, but unless you are in CA or over seas (some countries) you can purchase them for $5-10. I'm not sure what the difference is between me swapping species vs. someone purchasing them. 2. I'd rather trade them so we can increase our number of species in the lab more economically. If someone wants these fish, great, and if they can swap with me...well, that helps me run an economical, student-friendly aquatic project. I really don't see much difference between the GMO danio and importation of other unique, "new to the hobby" species--other than the fact that danios are hardy and the "new" species are often poorly and/or incorrectly cared for resulting in their untimely death. If we can engineer "new" fish this way and people like them, I think that's great, as it reduces the impact on the wild-caught species of Asia, SA, etc... Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Amanda, > > Make sure you call them Zebra Danio's or their latin name Brachydanio Rerio > since Zebrafish is a not-often-used older common name and there are other > species that are called Zebrafish as well. I know the Glofish.com site > calls them Zebrafish but it's not a good practice... especially for a future > mad scientist. ;-) > > If I was you, I'd be very careful about trading any of these cross breeds. > While I appreciate the science and experimentation you are doing (I was a > biology major in college also), you must take precautions that these fish > never get released into the wild. Please reconsider your offer and plan to > keep all the offspring in a controlled environment. We simply do not know > what the long term effects of these genetic glofish enhancements may be and > besides that, zebra danio's are already on the top of the list of many > non-indigenous invasive species in America so we don't need a bunch of > glowing mutant ZD's swimming wild in our lakes and streams. Besides, they > might compete with my day-glo artificial lures when I'm trying to catch that > lunker bass or trout!!! ;-) > c Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26581	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab

Is it what you call invasive Lenny ??.... According to the web site you give a link , They found no breeding population in the golf region , only few fish release by someone I get this info from your link. They talk only about a future possibility, Here under the link Current status : "Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Here the text under potential impact. : Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 1:34 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26582	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Wow...what a can of worms For what it's worth, it would take me a thousand years to defend myself from the points in last few emails. My intentions were pure, not self-serving, and not intended to offend or upset anyone. Now, it seems, my "offer" has returned to me as an attack on my view of environmental issues. To imply I do not care about environmental issues in other places, etc, is unfair--and no one on this group knows a thing about me or what I believe. This has been quite disheartening. I have MANY natural aquariums, all with "natural" fish, etc, and selectively-bred species as well. I'm a R-winger conservative, quite rare in the biological research/teaching world, and I drive a veggie car and heat my house with wood from my own farm. You can keep your fossil fuels in the gulf if you wish, but this strays from the topic at hand. My goals are to perform research and teach to encourage environmentally sustainable collection, holding, and use (ornamental or food) of a variety of species. I dearly hope to bring others into the hobby as well. If there is no future influx of younger aquarists, kids will care less and less about the natural world...and stay on their computers and INSIDE all the time : ( never to appreciate what is beyond the keyboard. My reasons for offering the glo fry were explained, and if no one wishes to take me up on the offer...fine, the fish will stay here. It is unfair to attack me over the offer alone. The reason I'd rather swap with folks on a list like this should be obvious--because you are likely not the average newbie that would even consider releasing any animal into the wild. Think of this--how many fish we each own that are wild-caught or not native to our area? I only have 2 native species at home, and my tanks would be less than enjoyable if I were limited to natives only. Invasive species of any organism will always be a potential problem, yet, look how much habitat and how many organisms we have saved because people CARE about what they can SEE and appreciate themselves. If the moderator of this group wishes to remove this thread/my posts, that's fine with me, and I will unsub from this group. As a "horse person" as well as a long-time aquarist, I thought this type of bantering was only reserved for horsey folk, how disappointed I am to be wrong. Sometimes the web can be so wonderful, and other times, so disappointing. To all, good luck with your fish-keeping. I'm headed back to the lab, where apparently you wish me to stay...too bad, because I was always such an advocate for the "high- end" aquarist who had much to offer to the research community. Amanda

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26583	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Im not putting anyone down and honestly have skipped over most of these emails because much of what was in them had nothing to do with fish. Im here for discussion of fish not oil and politics besides that Im not sure what exactly this is all about but we would have the danios "glofish" had it not been for our fish guy saying he didnt recommend it as the length of life and wellness is not well known at this time. I just took that as they are still new so noone really knows what to expect. I can say my favorite of all of my fish are my beautiful fancytail zebra danios. -----Original Message----- From: abarker3wvuedu <amandabstewart@...> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 2:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Wow...what a can of worms For what it's worth, it would take me a thousand years to defend myself from the points in last few emails. My intentions were pure, not self-serving, and not intended to offend or upset anyone. Now, it seems, my "offer" has returned to me as an attack on my view of environmental issues. To imply I do not care about environmental issues in other places, etc, is unfair--and no one on this group knows a thing about me or what I believe. This has been quite disheartening. I have MANY natural aquariums, all with "natural" fish, etc, and selectively-bred species as well. I'm a R-winger conservative, quite rare in the biological research/teaching world, and I drive a veggie car and heat my house with wood from my own farm. You can keep your fossil fuels in the gulf if you wish, but this strays from the topic at hand. My goals are to perform research and teach to encourage environmentally sustainable collection, holding, and use (ornamental or food) of a variety of species. I dearly hope to bring others into the hobby as well. If there is no future influx of younger aquarists, kids will care less and less about the natural world...and stay on their computers and INSIDE all the time : ( never to appreciate what is beyond the keyboard. My reasons for offering the glo fry were explained, and if no one wishes to take me up on the offer...fine, the fish will stay here. It is unfair to attack me over the offer alone. The reason I'd rather swap with folks on a list like this should be obvious--because you are likely not the average newbie that would even consider releasing any animal into the wild. Think of this--how many fish we each own that are wild-caught or not native to our area? I only have 2 native species at home, and my tanks would be less than enjoyable if I were limited to natives only. Invasive species of any organism will always be a potential problem, yet, look how much habitat and how many organisms we have saved because people CARE about what they can SEE and appreciate themselves. If the moderator of this group wishes to remove this thread/my posts, that's fine with me, and I will unsub from this group. As a "horse person" as well as a long-time aquarist, I thought this type of bantering was only reserved for horsey folk, how disappointed I am to be wrong. Sometimes the web can be so wonderful, and other times, so disappointing. To all, good luck with your fish-keeping. I'm headed back to the lab, where apparently you wish me to stay...too bad, because I was always such an advocate for the "high- end" aquarist who had much to offer to the research community. Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26584	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab

Funny than those bad comments came from people maintaining high genetically modify fish in their tank, I’m talking about the famous Gold Fish here, from far the first human modified fish. Gold Fish should be in the top list of Ban Fish. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de abarker3wvuedu Envoyé : March 15, 2008 3:22 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Wow...what a can of worms For what it's worth, it would take me a thousand years to defend myself from the points in last few emails. My intentions were pure, not self-serving, and not intended to offend or upset anyone. Now, it seems, my "offer" has returned to me as an attack on my view of environmental issues. To imply I do not care about environmental issues in other places, etc, is unfair--and no one on this group knows a thing about me or what I believe. This has been quite disheartening. I have MANY natural aquariums, all with "natural" fish, etc, and selectively-bred species as well. I'm a R-winger conservative, quite rare in the biological research/teaching world, and I drive a veggie car and heat my house with wood from my own farm. You can keep your fossil fuels in the gulf if you wish, but this strays from the topic at hand. My goals are to perform research and teach to encourage environmentally sustainable collection, holding, and use (ornamental or food) of a variety of species. I dearly hope to bring others into the hobby as well. If there is no future influx of younger aquarists, kids will care less and less about the natural world...and stay on their computers and INSIDE all the time : ( never to appreciate what is beyond the keyboard. My reasons for offering the glo fry were explained, and if no one wishes to take me up on the offer...fine, the fish will stay here. It is unfair to attack me over the offer alone. The reason I'd rather swap with folks on a list like this should be obvious--because you are likely not the average newbie that would even consider releasing any animal into the wild. Think of this--how many fish we each own that are wild-caught or not native to our area? I only have 2 native species at home, and my tanks would be less than enjoyable if I were limited to natives only. Invasive species of any organism will always be a potential problem, yet, look how much habitat and how many organisms we have saved because people CARE about what they can SEE and appreciate themselves. If the moderator of this group wishes to remove this thread/my posts, that's fine with me, and I will unsub from this group. As a "horse person" as well as a long-time aquarist, I thought this type of bantering was only reserved for horsey folk, how disappointed I am to be wrong. Sometimes the web can be so wonderful, and other times, so disappointing. To all, good luck with your fish-keeping. I'm headed back to the lab, where apparently you wish me to stay...too bad, because I was always such an advocate for the "high- end" aquarist who had much to offer to the research community. Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26585	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Amanda, It's not a can of worms or any kind of attack, just some healthy debate... maybe mixed with some of my irreverent sarcasm and a little dose of strong political views about Gov't. Waste... (since you mentioned this experiment was being done on grant money). My initial reply to your first post was just a different opinion about whether these cross-bred genetically enhanced fish should be readily traded or at least if someone is going to take you up on your offer, they would have opposing viewpoints to weigh in their decision. In your follow-up reply, you did state a couple of incorrect "facts" which I pointed out to you. It's not an attack but rather a correction. When you correct one of your student's papers... isn't that all you are doing? Correcting it... or should it be construed as an attack on that student? When you point out that you have a PhD, some people tend to think everything you say may be correct but unfortunately, I know that many PhD's spew out all kinds of incorrect information to our children in high-priced public and private universities and lower educational facilities. I'm not saying you are that type of PhD but simply having a degree does not give you carte blanche status to voice your opinions unopposed. Your opinions are still subject to peer review and/or the review of other interested parties. There's no reason for you to leave the group if you do indeed wish to help or be helped by others. If you don't like what I have to contribute, hit the delete key when you see a reply from me. Now, getting back to the glo-fish, I'm all for free enterprise and market place economics but I wouldn't lose any sleep if the glo-fish people went out of business today.... nor would I lose any sleep if any of the other breeders who are doing experiments on fish for the sole purpose of turning a bigger profit from decorative fish. Experiments and research done to promote the common good of man is fine but simply to create a new decorative fish??? I don't get it! I only came to this conclusion as a fancy goldfish owner and seeing all the problems that fancy goldfish have due to their selective inbreeding. If some warped individual hadn't decided to play Dr. Frankenstein a long time ago, goldfish would still be "normal" and live out longer healthier lives, but now we have countless fancy varieties with all kinds of internal defects to go with all of the external defects.... oops.. I meant "pretty" features... that live half the lifespan of their "normal" counterparts. (Uh oh... there I go again with my irreverent sarcasm! LOL) Even responsible fish keepers could lose their fish to public waterways. Let me think of how that might happen... oh yeah.. hurricanes Andrew, Katrina, Camille, Mississippi River plains flooding, etc., etc., where the flood waters may just "release" the aquarium fish without the owners consent. While I can chalk those events up to "(Blank) Happens!", I don't want potentially mutant fish being accidentally released. I think I pointed out earlier that I want to have the only day-glo colored bait (lure) in the lake or river so I have the better chance of catching that big bass or trout. I don't need a bunch of glowing zebra danios messing with my attempts. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of abarker3wvuedu Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 2:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Wow...what a can of worms For what it's worth, it would take me a thousand years to defend myself from the points in last few emails. My intentions were pure, not self-serving, and not intended to offend or upset anyone. Now, it seems, my "offer" has returned to me as an attack on my view of environmental issues. To imply I do not care about environmental issues in other places, etc, is unfair--and no one on this group knows a thing about me or what I believe. This has been quite disheartening. I have MANY natural aquariums, all with "natural" fish, etc, and selectively-bred species as well. I'm a R-winger conservative, quite rare in the biological research/teaching world, and I drive a veggie car and heat my house with wood from my own farm. You can keep your fossil fuels in the gulf if you wish, but this strays from the topic at hand. My goals are to perform research and teach to encourage environmentally sustainable collection, holding, and use (ornamental or food) of a variety of species. I dearly hope to bring others into the hobby as well. If there is no future influx of younger aquarists, kids will care less and less about the natural world...and stay on their computers and INSIDE all the time : ( never to appreciate what is beyond the keyboard. My reasons for offering the glo fry were explained, and if no one wishes to take me up on the offer...fine, the fish will stay here. It is unfair to attack me over the offer alone. The reason I'd rather swap with folks on a list like this should be obvious--because you are likely not the average newbie that would even consider releasing any animal into the wild. Think of this--how many fish we each own that are wild-caught or not native to our area? I only have 2 native species at home, and my tanks would be less than enjoyable if I were limited to natives only. Invasive species of any organism will always be a potential problem, yet, look how much habitat and how many organisms we have saved because people CARE about what they can SEE and appreciate themselves. If the moderator of this group wishes to remove this thread/my posts, that's fine with me, and I will unsub from this group. As a "horse person" as well as a long-time aquarist, I thought this type of bantering was only reserved for horsey folk, how disappointed I am to be wrong. Sometimes the web can be so wonderful, and other times, so disappointing. To all, good luck with your fish-keeping. I'm headed back to the lab, where apparently you wish me to stay...too bad, because I was always such an advocate for the "high- end" aquarist who had much to offer to the research community. Amanda No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26586	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Russ and Sarah Welcome New Guppies

And look at the bright side.... at least the mommy guppy isn't screaming at you or cursing you out while she's giving birth. Tell Sarah to pay attention to and remember that fact should the happy event ever happen to you guys! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russ Foley Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Russ and Sarah Welcome New Guppies Well we went to a pet shop and ended up with a pile of pregnant guppies. Well we are in the middle of watching all the fish coming out. Seeing the fish being born and what looks like yellow eggs. We have opted for the breeding trap and so far I think we have counted between 15 and 20 lil ones... as I type one more has been born. Wow cool. This is the first time both myself and Sarah have experienced this and it is really nice to see new life in the tank. I have been movnig the new ones to a net to keep them safe. We have fast fish in our tank and nothing gets past them. A fry got down to a plant but did not last long at all. Anyway enjoying this new experience but wanted to share it with others. Russ n Sarah xx No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26587	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: help again..=(

OK. The charcoal shouldn't pose too much of a problem although it would probably be better if you can remove it. The goldfish may decide to taste it and spit it out so it shouldn't pose a problem for them. Let us know how things are going with your test results and stick to your regimen of frequent PWC's until you can get a larger tank... but even with a larger tank, you'll still have to do weekly PWC's for goldfish since they are such large fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of waves02 Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 10:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help again..=( well, this morning.. everything looks o.k. in the tank.. I do believe they were in a type of shock.. and the charcoal.. well, I dropped some charcoal in the filter.. and it came out into the water.. heaven help goldfish with beginners like me.. I am studying though.. I am using my test kit this morning.. thank you so much for the help... you would not believe how it is appreciated from this beginner. caroline At 11:23 PM 3/14/2008, you wrote: >What do you mean by "left some charcoal floating"? > >If you have a master test kit to test for ammonia, nitrites and >nitrates, you could use your test results to give you an idea of how >frequent you will need to do PWC's. Try to stick with 25% PWC's although 1/3rd isn't bad. >Try to avoid large PWC's unless it's an emergency since you could >change the water parameters too much, too fast, which can cause shock >issues to your fish. Do you have a master test kit or any kind of tests? > >You're not a murderer... well, not unless you go to the store where you >got the fish and strangle the people there for giving you such bad >advice. ;-) > >Lenny Vasbinder >Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >-----Original Message----- >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of waves02 >Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 7:23 PM >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help again..=( > >the two fancy goldfish...frito and cheeto... that were in a small tank.. >well, am going to get a larger tank... so, in the meanwhile... I did >partial water changes with amquel added... about 1/3 then the next >day.. 1/3... they are tipping downward... I know that I left some >charcoal floating... will this make them die.. I feel like a murderer.. >caroline > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26588	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

I think the term "non-native invasive species" deals with any non-native species. We usually don't know that they've become "invasive" until years later when they start messing up the ecosystem in the area where they've decided to call home. I'm sure nobody ever thought that Nutria would wreck havoc on the environment down here when they were first introduced hundreds of years ago, but now our local police agencies have to send out their sharp-shooters to shoot the nutria that are proliferating in our canals, bayous, streams, rivers, lakes, marshes and swamps because they are voracious eaters of vegetation which destabilizes the land mass containing the water. Some have even suggested that nutria could be one of the reasons contributing to the levee failures that happened during Hurricane Katrina. The earthen levees rely on surface vegetation to stabilize them and if the nutria ate away a lot of the vegetation, the water would have a much easier chance of eroding the bare mud. They are also blamed for some of the deterioration that is affecting our marshes and helping the coastal erosion problems... who would have thunk a couple of nutria could have contributed to this devastation? Of course, the oil industry, with the paid-off politicians approval, which have dug countless access canals led to the majority of our coastal erosion. Anyhow.. back to the Glo-Fish ZD's. If you want glowing zebra danios (or their natural counterparts) swimming around in your local waters, go for it. I happen to NOT want them in mine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Is it what you call invasive Lenny ??.... According to the web site you give a link , They found no breeding population in the golf region , only few fish release by someone I get this info from your link. They talk only about a future possibility, Here under the link Current status : "Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Here the text under potential impact. : Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 1:34 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26589	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

The Glo-fish is not funded by any research money. Period. My research $ goes to study FOOD fish, and that alone, currently the Green Sunfish. The Glo-fish and all items involved in their breeding come from my own personal $$. Your tax dollars are NOT funding the Glo-fish. The distribution of the Danio was reviewed by many in the field-by professionals, not by the govt. alone, and was not found to be a release threat. Yes, any fish could escape after a hurricane, etc, but that brings up the ideas that we shouldn't have ANY non-natives in our tanks. I only pointed out I have a PhD when it appeared to you that I was a student...I've posted as a "regular Joe" until then...and only to help others understand that I'm not an irresponsible kid pawning fish on the web, that's ALL. To assume I was doing otherwise is rude. Yes, incorrect info is out and about in the educational world-- regardless of size or private/public status. Simply having the degree means nothing, but people who have advanced degrees work to get them. I've worked VERY hard to get it, and I work VERY VERY hard every day to ensure what I'm saying is correct. I back up my degree with continuing research, and I'm not embarassed by my degree. Are there idiots with PhDs? Sure...but if I were the typical high-brow professor, I wouldn't bother with a group of "aquarists" would I? Previously, I thought my torch to bear was helping the research community understand the aquarist...seems to me it's worse the other direction. It's this lack of understanding (of research and what aquarists already know) that causes the problems. Go read the original Danio paper if you'd like, might help you understand how and why these things are done. I never even hinted that my views should be taken as the Gospel. Research and development to make a better product and make it more profitable is why we can produce 1000s more pounds of milk and meat per unit of grain fed. Why is this important to the fish-keeper? Less fertilizer, less runoff, better aquatic habitats. Research and breeding/selection "experiments" to develop more marketable fish has produced 99.9% of the fish we all own. If we own "natives" they have been wild-caught, and there is at least some kind of impact to that collection and shipping. If you aren't OK with that...then go back to plain carp and minnows, or hatchery produced fish native to your area. Funny thing is...there are few hatchery-produced native fish anywhere...what would you keep if it weren't for fish captively bred or collected from the wild? How many of your fish are truly natural? A better, more decorative fish can boost sales and put food on the table for the people who breed, distribute, and market ornamentals. We may not eat them directly, but this is how folks make a living...even small-time "mom and pop" breeders. Honestly, I don't have time to argue back and forth on any forum...thought this might be a place to share with some aquarists what's going on from the research side of things...from now on I'll choose to spend my time on more positive pursuits. Amanda

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26590	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Heather, These fish have been around for several years, with no reported problems. If I recall correctly, they were genetically altered to serve as a detector of pollutants in the water by fluorescing when contaminants were present. This was a step in that direction, but not useful for their intended purpose, since they glow all the time. I have not seen any reports of these fish being "fragile" or having a shorter life span. If you want some, go ahead and get some, BUT, the glow can be difficult t discern, and is dependent on the type of light and the angle of the light. There are some sites on the web that are specifically about these fish, so I would suggest you take a look at those first, and if you still want them, go for it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of "¤*?*¤"H3ATH3R"¤*?*¤" Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP My b/f wants some of the "glo-fish" but when we asked our fish guy about them he said he wouldnt recommend getting these fish as they arent to sure about them yet. Meaning they may have problems or not live long. -----Original Message----- From: abarker3wvuedu <amandabstewart@...> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny I should clarify...I have a PhD in Animal Science and a Master's in Reproductive Physiology, and I'm the professor of Biology that oversees the projects. I study fish genetics, mostly in the "genomics" area, and I typically work with food fish (Rainbow Trout and Lepomis species). I am currently working with grant funds to study the genetics of the wild and hatchery-maintained stocks of green sunfish. The zebra I am talking about is the danio, a fish that has been used in research for years due to the clarity of the egg and embryo and early fry. The GMO fish--especially one kept by people in the hobby--holds no threat for those of us not in tropical regions. The danio, if unwanted, is likely to be target of getting flushed down the loo...not typically the same problem of the larger fish. I'm unsure why you think the GMO danio would be a problem--danios have never been reported as an invasive, which is why the US decided NOT to ban them in the hobby. I know the GMO issue is a split in the aquarium-keeping community, but it's getting more students excited about fish, and it lulls them in to looking @ other species. Nothing's neater than seeing a BRIGHT little fry! I am only offering a swap for other species because: 1. You can buy these fish locally...maybe not our specific color crosses, but unless you are in CA or over seas (some countries) you can purchase them for $5-10. I'm not sure what the difference is between me swapping species vs. someone purchasing them. 2. I'd rather trade them so we can increase our number of species in the lab more economically. If someone wants these fish, great, and if they can swap with me...well, that helps me run an economical, student-friendly aquatic project. I really don't see much difference between the GMO danio and importation of other unique, "new to the hobby" species--other than the fact that danios are hardy and the "new" species are often poorly and/or incorrectly cared for resulting in their untimely death. If we can engineer "new" fish this way and people like them, I think that's great, as it reduces the impact on the wild-caught species of Asia, SA, etc... Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Amanda, > > Make sure you call them Zebra Danio's or their latin name Brachydanio Rerio > since Zebrafish is a not-often-used older common name and there are other > species that are called Zebrafish as well. I know the Glofish.com site > calls them Zebrafish but it's not a good practice... especially for a future > mad scientist. ;-) > > If I was you, I'd be very careful about trading any of these cross breeds. > While I appreciate the science and experimentation you are doing (I was a > biology major in college also), you must take precautions that these fish > never get released into the wild. Please reconsider your offer and plan to > keep all the offspring in a controlled environment. We simply do not know > what the long term effects of these genetic glofish enhancements may be and > besides that, zebra danio's are already on the top of the list of many > non-indigenous invasive species in America so we don't need a bunch of > glowing mutant ZD's swimming wild in our lakes and streams. Besides, they > might compete with my day-glo artificial lures when I'm trying to catch that > lunker bass or trout!!! ;-) > c Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26591	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

My comments weren't "bad", merely opposing dissent. And yes, I do have a couple of fancy goldfish and it was after I got them several years ago, that I started learning more and more about them and the inbreeding that led to their weakened state of health... as I have previously posted many, many times. Two wrongs don't make it right! As a parent, I don't want my kids making some of the same mistakes I made and as a fish keeper, I don't want fellow hobbyists doing it either. It's one of the reasons I'm here. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 2:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Funny than those bad comments came from people maintaining high genetically modify fish in their tank, I’m talking about the famous Gold Fish here, from far the first human modified fish. Gold Fish should be in the top list of Ban Fish. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de abarker3wvuedu Envoyé : March 15, 2008 3:22 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Wow...what a can of worms For what it's worth, it would take me a thousand years to defend myself from the points in last few emails. My intentions were pure, not self-serving, and not intended to offend or upset anyone. Now, it seems, my "offer" has returned to me as an attack on my view of environmental issues. To imply I do not care about environmental issues in other places, etc, is unfair--and no one on this group knows a thing about me or what I believe. This has been quite disheartening. I have MANY natural aquariums, all with "natural" fish, etc, and selectively-bred species as well. I'm a R-winger conservative, quite rare in the biological research/teaching world, and I drive a veggie car and heat my house with wood from my own farm. You can keep your fossil fuels in the gulf if you wish, but this strays from the topic at hand. My goals are to perform research and teach to encourage environmentally sustainable collection, holding, and use (ornamental or food) of a variety of species. I dearly hope to bring others into the hobby as well. If there is no future influx of younger aquarists, kids will care less and less about the natural world...and stay on their computers and INSIDE all the time : ( never to appreciate what is beyond the keyboard. My reasons for offering the glo fry were explained, and if no one wishes to take me up on the offer...fine, the fish will stay here. It is unfair to attack me over the offer alone. The reason I'd rather swap with folks on a list like this should be obvious--because you are likely not the average newbie that would even consider releasing any animal into the wild. Think of this--how many fish we each own that are wild-caught or not native to our area? I only have 2 native species at home, and my tanks would be less than enjoyable if I were limited to natives only. Invasive species of any organism will always be a potential problem, yet, look how much habitat and how many organisms we have saved because people CARE about what they can SEE and appreciate themselves. If the moderator of this group wishes to remove this thread/my posts, that's fine with me, and I will unsub from this group. As a "horse person" as well as a long-time aquarist, I thought this type of bantering was only reserved for horsey folk, how disappointed I am to be wrong. Sometimes the web can be so wonderful, and other times, so disappointing. To all, good luck with your fish-keeping. I'm headed back to the lab, where apparently you wish me to stay...too bad, because I was always such an advocate for the "high- end" aquarist who had much to offer to the research community. Amanda No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26592	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies ava

Here, there is a problem with snake heads, which are being found in tributaries to the Potomac River. No one has claimed to have found a breeding population, yet year after year they are being found, which certainly would indicate breeding. Here, they claim to have found some one year, and, from the quote given, that was it. I have been to various areas in Florida during the winter, and have seen an amazing collection of fish that should not be there in various bodies of water. I do not recall seeing any zebras, but I was not doing any collection, and may have pulled some out if I were seining. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Is it what you call invasive Lenny ??.... According to the web site you give a link , They found no breeding population in the golf region , only few fish release by someone I get this info from your link. They talk only about a future possibility, Here under the link Current status : "Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Here the text under potential impact. : Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 1:34 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26593	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Thanks Steve..I have just started today researching a little on them as I had never even heard of them until a couple of weeks ago. Danios are my favorite in general and the "glo-fish" are very colorful thats for sure. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Heather, These fish have been around for several years, with no reported problems. If I recall correctly, they were genetically altered to serve as a detector of pollutants in the water by fluorescing when contaminants were present. This was a step in that direction, but not useful for their intended purpose, since they glow all the time. I have not seen any reports of these fish being "fragile" or having a shorter life span. If you want some, go ahead and get some, BUT, the glow can be difficult t discern, and is dependent on the type of light and the angle of the light. There are some sites on the web that are specifically about these fish, so I would suggest you take a look at those first, and if you still want them, go for it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of "¤*?*¤"H3ATH3R"¤*?*¤" Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP My b/f wants some of the "glo-fish" but when we asked our fish guy about them he said he wouldnt recommend getting these fish as they arent to sure about them yet. Meaning they may have problems or not live long. -----Original Message----- From: abarker3wvuedu <amandabstewart@...> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny I should clarify...I have a PhD in Animal Science and a Master's in Reproductive Physiology, and I'm the professor of Biology that oversees the projects. I study fish genetics, mostly in the "genomics" area, and I typically work with food fish (Rainbow Trout and Lepomis species). I am currently working with grant funds to study the genetics of the wild and hatchery-maintained stocks of green sunfish. The zebra I am talking about is the danio, a fish that has been used in research for years due to the clarity of the egg and embryo and early fry. The GMO fish--especially one kept by people in the hobby--holds no threat for those of us not in tropical regions. The danio, if unwanted, is likely to be target of getting flushed down the loo...not typically the same problem of the larger fish. I'm unsure why you think the GMO danio would be a problem--danios have never been reported as an invasive, which is why the US decided NOT to ban them in the hobby. I know the GMO issue is a split in the aquarium-keeping community, but it's getting more students excited about fish, and it lulls them in to looking @ other species. Nothing's neater than seeing a BRIGHT little fry! I am only offering a swap for other species because: 1. You can buy these fish locally...maybe not our specific color crosses, but unless you are in CA or over seas (some countries) you can purchase them for $5-10. I'm not sure what the difference is between me swapping species vs. someone purchasing them. 2. I'd rather trade them so we can increase our number of species in the lab more economically. If someone wants these fish, great, and if they can swap with me...well, that helps me run an economical, student-friendly aquatic project. I really don't see much difference between the GMO danio and importation of other unique, "new to the hobby" species--other than the fact that danios are hardy and the "new" species are often poorly and/or incorrectly cared for resulting in their untimely death. If we can engineer "new" fish this way and people like them, I think that's great, as it reduces the impact on the wild-caught species of Asia, SA, etc... Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Amanda, > > Make sure you call them Zebra Danio's or their latin name Brachydanio Rerio > since Zebrafish is a not-often-used older common name and there are other > species that are called Zebrafish as well. I know the Glofish.com site > calls them Zebrafish but it's not a good practice... especially for a future > mad scientist. ;-) > > If I was you, I'd be very careful about trading any of these cross breeds. > While I appreciate the science and experimentation you are doing (I was a > biology major in college also), you must take precautions that these fish > never get released into the wild. Please reconsider your offer and plan to > keep all the offspring in a controlled environment. We simply do not know > what the long term effects of these genetic glofish enhancements may be and > besides that, zebra danio's are already on the top of the list of many > non-indigenous invasive species in America so we don't need a bunch of > glowing mutant ZD's swimming wild in our lakes and streams. Besides, they > might compete with my day-glo artificial lures when I'm trying to catch that > lunker bass or trout!!! ;-) > c Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

Yes, a bacterial infection or anything causing them to "feel bad" will lead them to laying on the bottom with fins clamped. It's one of the ways a fish tells you they aren't feeling well. You mentioned adding live plants. Did you happen to add them shortly before the fish started feeling bad? If you did, there is a chance you could have introduced a new bacteria into their tank with the plants. While they may have been able to handle the new bacteria with their own immune systems, combined with the broad temperature swings, which can cause shock to a fish and weaken their immune systems, this possible new bacteria could be the cause of their maladies. Yes, ammonia spikes or dirty gravel could also lead to immune system issues or increased levels of bacterial growth. While Melafix is helpful with external issues, it's not as good on internal issues. Weren't you using Jungle Lifeguard or maybe I'm confusing this thread with one of the many others? It's not good to mix and match drugs. It's best to try one treatment plan and if that isn't working, then you do a series of PWC's and run some fresh carbon to remove the meds and try something else. Of course, with each treatment, a weakened fish could get worse as their gills, kidneys and osmoregulatory systems have to work harder to deal with the meds in the water. It's a good idea to give fish a few days of rest with just fresh water, maybe with some salt, in between medical treatment changes. Those online tutorials are not movies. They are websites with a section on each phase of fish keeping. In these days of YouTube, et al, maybe someone should set up a video series but I like the idea of text that I can glance over quicker to find what I need. Further, it's a proven fact that people learn and retain much more from reading compared to watching a movie. I know the Cliff's Notes always sunk in better than the rental video on books I was supposed to read in high school, etc. LOL As to the momma fish. Yes, adding even a piece of filter media from a cycled tank will go a long way towards fully cycling a new tank. For example, say you have 10 fish in one tank and you have to move one to a Q-tank. If you just move 1/10th (10%) of the filter media to the Q-tank, both tanks should remain fully cycled. Even if you transfer too much to the Q-tank, the older tank will likely not see much, if any, of a cycle issue since the nitrifying bacteria are capable of doubling their colony size every 24-48 hours. Now if you remove 90%, that would have more of an effect. If you only have a single filter system on a tank, you shouldn't over-clean the filter media. With multiple filter systems or filters with multiple media layers, then cleaning one layer should not cause problems. For example, in my canister filters, I have the water passing through a large pore sponge first, then a smaller pore sponge, then several layers of filter floss pads, then through a micro-filtration pad and finally through Purigen for chemical filtration. I usually just rinse/squeeze the sponges out in dechlored water or removed tank water. This removes any big detritus while keeping all of the nitrifying bacteria alive on the sponge walls. Then I may use the faucet, even with hot water on one or more of the remaining floss pads to get them super clean but leave one or more of the other floss pads only rinsed/squeezed in dechlored water so the nitrifying bacteria on those pads are mostly unaffected. Using this system, I've never had a mini-cycle.... even in my goldfish tank. I also have two filter systems on the tank so when I might clean one of them, the other stays "dirty" but fully cycled. I alternate cleaning them every two weeks. Now, as to the white specks on your molly. Does it look like salt sprinkled on the fish? If so, you could be getting an Ich outbreak... which does seem to happen with quick temperature drops or other stressors. Here's a short article on diagnosing and treating Ich. http://fish.orbust.net/ich.html Here's a longer article with pictures. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php Last but not least.. yes they do sell air conditioners for fish tanks.. called chillers.. but they are very expensive. There are easier ways to keep the tanks cooler during the hot summer months. One simple way is to get a fan on a stand and point it at the surface of the water (remove the top first) and increase the surface agitation and this will "cool" down the water slowly. There's no need to take out your heaters during the summer months. Just leave them set at their normal temps and they simply won't turn on if the water stays warmer than the thermostat temperature... but at least if things get cold in the house, they will kick on to keep the tanks temperature from dropping too much or too quick. I think I answered all of your questions. If not, go through and number them so I can make sure I get them all. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? Ok, I have a heater in every tank, but when it started getting too hot in the house and the tanks were getting up to like 84* I turned the heaters down...it holds pretty steady around 76* but when the house heats up too much, it goes up. I don't think they make air conditioners for tanks :-) As for my algae eaters, when they start to get bigger and I think they are too big for my tank, I have a friend with a 90 gallon that they will go to, if I haven't ended up getting a bigger tank by then (which I probably won't...but my friend wants them when they get big). They are only a few inches at most right now. On a side note, I am a little excited because I got the alage eater in the 20 gallon tank (the one that has the bottom-sitting, clamped-fin fish in it) to eat zucchini. I don't think I have much algae being my tank is still pretty new (though there IS something brown on the edges of some of the leaves on my one fake plant), so I am happy to see him eating something and knowing in my head he isn't starving :-) I talked to a guy at Petsmart (I know they are not gurus, and most don't know much, but this guy actually seemed to know a lot, I think) and he said the fish doing this "body wagging" thing they have been doing is called "shimmying" and he thinks it is a bacterial infection (of course he says he can't say much without actually seeing the fish, but it sounds bacterial from what I have told him - same stuff I have told you). So, I am thinking about getting some Melafix...can I add that AND salt to the water??? Also, could a bacterial infection cause them to lay on the bottom like they are??? What could have caused a bacterial infection if that is what it is? I haven't added any fish for a couple of weeks...but I don't know how long it would take for it them to show signs if that fish brought something in with him. Or could ammonia or dirty gravel cause it? Ohhhhh, maybe THAT was it...you said something about water temperature changes causing the fish to succumb to bacterial issues...When the heater was maintaining the tank at 76 and the weather got hot, and the temperature spiked up to like 84, then I got it to drop to 76 again...that happened pretty quickly...I didn't think water could change temperature so quickly in so many gallons. If it is bacterial, will Melafix take care of it? If I have a pregnant fish (which I think I do), and I put her into a clean clean tank, will the babies survive? The tank would be brand new and cycling, but I can put the filter from my one tank that is having no problems into the tank with the mama fish and babies, will that help cycling??? Oh, and I added live plants to my 20 gallon bottom-sitting fins- clamped fish tank. There is still a fake floating in the top to give them hiding places, but I took out the rest of the fakes and replaced with live...all the fakes have this brown stuff on them...I know there is some kind of brown colored algae...maybe I should take the fake floating plant out, too? To get all that brown stuff out of the tank??? I have had the best intentions and have been meaning to do the tutorials on your site, just keep forgetting. (might have a touch of ADHD on that one...just can't sit still for that long...I don't watch many movies either). So, can I use the kitchen sink sprayer on kinda high pressure with cold water or similar to tank water temperature on the filter cartridges? Just to get the brown goo off the outside for the most part. Filter doesn't do much with that on there. I will see if I can squeeze another cartridge into that filter, too. It is a 5-15 gallon filter system on a 20 gallon tank (gotta get some cartridges for the bigger system so I can switch them out...maybe put a used smaller cartridge from the current system into the bigger one with a new right sized cartridge so I don't lose all the good stuff in it?) I haven't seen any white on my fish that doesn't belong...until I started adding some salt. Now the black molly has white on him...but I also noticed I have a LOT more teeny tiny bubbles in the water...not sure why on that one...so I don't know if it is bubbles sticking to the fish, or something to worry about. anndrea --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > PWC's, while maybe annoying to fish, is nothing compared to the stress they > feel from having poor water quality (elevated ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, > hormones, etc.). > > In your follow-up reply, you identified your algae eater as a CAE, which > technically should be called an IAE (Indian Algae Eater) since they are not > from China. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> > They grow to over 10" and need a large tank. They are tolerant of harder > water so the salt should not bother them but maybe someone else will chime > in on this. I don't recall ever reading anything about not using salt with > CAE's. > > You should probably get a heater for the tank so it will maintain a > consistent tropical temp of 78-82F depending on the average needs of your > fish. Especially in smaller tanks where the water can change temperature > rapidly depending on the room temp. I have a blog where I did an experiment > on a 10G with a simulated heater failure in the stuck off position and then > in the stuck on position to show how fast the water temperature drops and/or > rises. If the temp changes more than 1-2F per day, some fish will start to > show stress or succumb to bacterial issues. Water getting too cool, too > fast, is also a common cause of an Ich flare up. > > Have you taken either of the free online tutorials I have listed on my blog > "A to Z of fish keeping"? Since you are trying to learn, it would be well > advised for you to take these tutorials. > > Yes, if you over clean your filters, you could put your tank into a > mini-cycle. While it's best to rinse out your filter media in removed tank > water or dechlored tap water, rinsing it with your tap water for a short > time period will usually not kill off all of the nitrifying bacteria... if > the tap water is around the same temp as the tank. If you used hot water, > that would kill off the bacteria quicker. While I don't recommend > thoroughly washing off the filter media, especially for newer tanks, > unplanted tanks or tanks with a single filter system, your > chlorine/chloramine levels in tap water do not instantly kill bacteria so > some should survive. > > If your filter system will hold two cartridges, then it is a good idea to > have two running all the time so you can alternate thoroughly clean one > every couple of weeks. If you can't fit two cartridges, then get some extra > filter media (floss pad, sponge, bio-balls, etc.) and leave it in the > reservoir so it stays fully cycled at all times. This is also a good way to > have extra media always cycled if you need to set up a Q-tank or H- tank or > new tank. > > You should probably start keeping a log of your tanks, test results, things > done to the tanks, etc. When I first started, I use to keep a spreadsheet > on my computer to log all of my test results and events. Once you have a > tank set up for a while and learn a proper regimen for the tank, then you > can slack off on keeping all of the numbers or even doing tests but for the > first six months or more, it's a good idea to test regularly so you will > learn how fast the water quality is deteriorating, etc. > > Yes, you NEED an ammonia test kit.. especially as a newbie and with new > tanks. They do sell the API individual test kits and I think the ammonia > kit is around $5-7.00 at Petsmart.com and the local stores will match the > online price if you print the page. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Anndrea > Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > > > Whenever something is wrong, the first thing you should do is a PWC > and > > gravel vacuum since poor water quality is the leading cause of fish > > problems. Next, do a filter cleaning to get rid of any excess > detritus (see > > my blog article about doing proper filter maintenance and > cleaning). > > I will do that later today :-) I wasn't sure if the partial watr > change could stress them out and cause whatever it is to get worse. > My mom's boyfriend says they look like they are doing exactly what > bass do when they have a nest. But these are all live bearers, so I > dunno what they are doing. > > > I would start by raising the salinity level depending on what > the "tiny > > algae eater" is. You need to find out the species and see if they > are salt > > tolerant as many catfish aren't... if it's a catfish. > > I don't think it is a catfish, I will have to google algae eaters and > try to find pictures to identify it. How much salt would you put in it > if it is a 20 gallon tank? Oh, and the big gourami in the little tank > is laying on the bottom a lot, too, but he is one of the fish with > brown on him, so maybe he just doesn't feel good? That is the tank > that is getting the Jungle Lifeguard stuff, can I still put salt > in it? How much for a 5 gallon? I have a box of aquarium salt, so I > would be using that. Oh, and the two sick fish in the tiny tank (5 > gallon) are getting a bigger tank tomorrow (10 gallon). > > > You should also increase the O2 levels in tank by increasing surface > > agitation. > > Well, I have a long bubble stone and a small round bubble stone in the > 20 gallon tank (the one with the fish on the bottom). I can turn > the air up, but it makes it look like the water is boiling, > almost...because of so many bubbles...if that's ok, I'll crank it up. > > > This article explains the uses and doses of salt. > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > > Oops, disregard the above questions about salt, then :-) > > > 76-78F is not "hot" for tropical fish. It's on the low end of the > scale for > > them. What was the normal temperature of the tank prior to this > heat spell? > > Mostly it hangs around 74...usually 76....I know that 78 isn't much of > an increase, but it was higher than normal. > > > What might you have done that might have thrown your tank back into > a cycle? > > Well, last time I gravel vacuumed, I used the sprayer on the kitchen > sink to wash out the filter (it had brown goo on it, and my water was > cloudy, so I rinsed it and it cleared up overnight). Someone told me > I probably restarted the cycle because of rinsing the good bacteria > out of the filter. Suggested putting two cartridges in the one filter > so I could alternate rinsing them. That way I always have good > bacteris in one of them, at least. > > > You stated that your test results were OK. What were the numbers > for > > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you have? > > Uhm, I threw away the strip, but it was: > ph 7.5 > nitrite and nitrate I am not 100% sure...it was one of these two > combinations: if the nitrite was 0, then the nitrate was about 40. If > the nitrate was 0, then the nitrite was about 1. > > The two tests are next to each other and I don't remember which one > was pink (meaning more than 0). > > I'm thinking it was the nitrate that was pink (meaning 40) because I > had read somewhere that is a good level to have the tank at and when > I looked at the test, I wasn't worried. > > I don't have an ammonia test. Need to get that big master kit, but > don't have the money at the moment (should soon, though). > > thanks a ton! > anndrea > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26595	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Lenny, I think the mutated goldfish is just as BAD!!!!!!! And Amanda, under Message at the top of your email is block sender. I just added Lenny to my block sender list. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I think the term "non-native invasive species" deals with any non-native species. We usually don't know that they've become "invasive" until years later when they start messing up the ecosystem in the area where they've decided to call home. I'm sure nobody ever thought that Nutria would wreck havoc on the environment down here when they were first introduced hundreds of years ago, but now our local police agencies have to send out their sharp-shooters to shoot the nutria that are proliferating in our canals, bayous, streams, rivers, lakes, marshes and swamps because they are voracious eaters of vegetation which destabilizes the land mass containing the water. Some have even suggested that nutria could be one of the reasons contributing to the levee failures that happened during Hurricane Katrina. The earthen levees rely on surface vegetation to stabilize them and if the nutria ate away a lot of the vegetation, the water would have a much easier chance of eroding the bare mud. They are also blamed for some of the deterioration that is affecting our marshes and helping the coastal erosion problems... who would have thunk a couple of nutria could have contributed to this devastation? Of course, the oil industry, with the paid-off politicians approval, which have dug countless access canals led to the majority of our coastal erosion. Anyhow.. back to the Glo-Fish ZD's. If you want glowing zebra danios (or their natural counterparts) swimming around in your local waters, go for it. I happen to NOT want them in mine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Is it what you call invasive Lenny ??.... According to the web site you give a link , They found no breeding population in the golf region , only few fish release by someone I get this info from your link. They talk only about a future possibility, Here under the link Current status : "Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Here the text under potential impact. : Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 1:34 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

I actually agree with you but since you blocked me, you'll never know it. ;-) I've written countless times about people with the Dr. Frankenstein complex in wanting to develop mutated fish for decorative purposes. It's why I would never breed mine but since I didn't learn this until after I bought them, I'm not going to just discard or kill them. I give them a nice big tank to live out their lives in and work diligently to keep them as healthy as possible. I guess if someone was trying to genetically engineer a puppy that glows hot pink in the dark, has an 8' long green and yellow tail, short legs in the front and the head is upside down on the body, then people would put it in context and be outraged but since it's just a fish... what the heck! If science feels there is a legitimate scientific reason for this type of experiment that might one day solve a major medical problem or other legitimate purpose, then I wouldn't necessarily have a problem, but doing it merely for the purpose of having a decorative fish to sell to unsuspecting buyers is wrong IMO. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 5:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny, I think the mutated goldfish is just as BAD!!!!!!! And Amanda, under Message at the top of your email is block sender. I just added Lenny to my block sender list. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I think the term "non-native invasive species" deals with any non-native species. We usually don't know that they've become "invasive" until years later when they start messing up the ecosystem in the area where they've decided to call home. I'm sure nobody ever thought that Nutria would wreck havoc on the environment down here when they were first introduced hundreds of years ago, but now our local police agencies have to send out their sharp-shooters to shoot the nutria that are proliferating in our canals, bayous, streams, rivers, lakes, marshes and swamps because they are voracious eaters of vegetation which destabilizes the land mass containing the water. Some have even suggested that nutria could be one of the reasons contributing to the levee failures that happened during Hurricane Katrina. The earthen levees rely on surface vegetation to stabilize them and if the nutria ate away a lot of the vegetation, the water would have a much easier chance of eroding the bare mud. They are also blamed for some of the deterioration that is affecting our marshes and helping the coastal erosion problems... who would have thunk a couple of nutria could have contributed to this devastation? Of course, the oil industry, with the paid-off politicians approval, which have dug countless access canals led to the majority of our coastal erosion. Anyhow.. back to the Glo-Fish ZD's. If you want glowing zebra danios (or their natural counterparts) swimming around in your local waters, go for it. I happen to NOT want them in mine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Is it what you call invasive Lenny ??.... According to the web site you give a link , They found no breeding population in the golf region , only few fish release by someone I get this info from your link. They talk only about a future possibility, Here under the link Current status : "Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Here the text under potential impact. : Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 1:34 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26597	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Glo-fish

If anyone cares I have started reading about glo-fish on http://glofish.com There has been many reasons for them to add that extra gene to these fish from polution to medical advances. So far it has been a very informative site. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26598	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab

I just get a look of what a glo danio is . I was chock; I thought this school was making only variation of Danio. (http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm) Amanda, I don’t care what kind of experiment you are conducting, but at least you should dispose properly of the fish when the experience is finish and not offer to trade them with people. We have enough of those parrot fish, paint injected and fancy gold fish , on the market. I have too agree with Lenny on this one, now that I know the true, between buy by mistake a modify fish, and try to produce more it’s a large difference. Those fish serve no other purpose than make Yorktown Technologies (Austin, TX). More rich. Where I don’t think like Lenny, is : If they release it in the nature, I’m not worry at all, with their glo color they will be very quick spotted and eat by other fish. :-) -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 7:02 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I actually agree with you but since you blocked me, you'll never know it. ;-) I've written countless times about people with the Dr. Frankenstein complex in wanting to develop mutated fish for decorative purposes. It's why I would never breed mine but since I didn't learn this until after I bought them, I'm not going to just discard or kill them. I give them a nice big tank to live out their lives in and work diligently to keep them as healthy as possible. I guess if someone was trying to genetically engineer a puppy that glows hot pink in the dark, has an 8' long green and yellow tail, short legs in the front and the head is upside down on the body, then people would put it in context and be outraged but since it's just a fish... what the heck! If science feels there is a legitimate scientific reason for this type of experiment that might one day solve a major medical problem or other legitimate purpose, then I wouldn't necessarily have a problem, but doing it merely for the purpose of having a decorative fish to sell to unsuspecting buyers is wrong IMO. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 5:31 PM To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny, I think the mutated goldfish is just as BAD!!!!!!! And Amanda, under Message at the top of your email is block sender. I just added Lenny to my block sender list. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I think the term "non-native invasive species" deals with any non-native species. We usually don't know that they've become "invasive" until years later when they start messing up the ecosystem in the area where they've decided to call home. I'm sure nobody ever thought that Nutria would wreck havoc on the environment down here when they were first introduced hundreds of years ago, but now our local police agencies have to send out their sharp-shooters to shoot the nutria that are proliferating in our canals, bayous, streams, rivers, lakes, marshes and swamps because they are voracious eaters of vegetation which destabilizes the land mass containing the water. Some have even suggested that nutria could be one of the reasons contributing to the levee failures that happened during Hurricane Katrina. The earthen levees rely on surface vegetation to stabilize them and if the nutria ate away a lot of the vegetation, the water would have a much easier chance of eroding the bare mud. They are also blamed for some of the deterioration that is affecting our marshes and helping the coastal erosion problems... who would have thunk a couple of nutria could have contributed to this devastation? Of course, the oil industry, with the paid-off politicians approval, which have dug countless access canals led to the majority of our coastal erosion. Anyhow.. back to the Glo-Fish ZD's. If you want glowing zebra danios (or their natural counterparts) swimming around in your local waters, go for it. I happen to NOT want them in mine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:58 PM To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Is it what you call invasive Lenny ??.... According to the web site you give a link , They found no breeding population in the golf region , only few fish release by someone I get this info from your link. They talk only about a future possibility, Here under the link Current status : "Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Here the text under potential impact. : Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. -----Message d'origine----- De : <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 1:34 PM À : <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26599	From: Natural Aquarium	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Glo-fish

Yes very interesting reading especially this part in the second paragraph “Also, please remember that GloFish® fluorescent fish are intended for use as aquarium fish only, and should not be used for any other purpose” Now I understand the value of those fish, they gone sell it to fisherman too use it as a bate. Like the glo worm Mark my word and look in the fish and hunt magazine in the next month. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Envoyé : March 15, 2008 7:11 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Objet : [AquaticLife] Glo-fish If anyone cares I have started reading about glo-fish on http://glofish. <http://glofish.com> com There has been many reasons for them to add that extra gene to these fish from polution to medical advances. So far it has been a very informative site. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26600	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish

Remember that everything from that site is spun to make everything look hunky-dory. Do a Google Scholar search for independent and/or peer reviewed articles. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=glofish&hl=en&lr= You'll have to look through many links to find some that you can actually read as most of them require fee based subscriptions. Here's some where the abstract of the article is available for free. Even Amanda referred to these glofish as GMO's and I wasn't quite sure what GMO stood for until reading some of these articles. GMO = Genetically Modified Organism. http://jolt.law.harvard.edu/articles/pdf/v19/19HarvJLTech413.pdf (30 page Harvard Article)(A snip from this article states, "...At least one state — California — banned GloFish™ sales, noting that the GloFish™ researchers used genetic engineering on fish for frivolous purposes, and the risks were not all identified.40...") http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1299107 (another long article which has this snip, "...Opponents, even while acknowledging this argument, believe that GM fish nevertheless pose a serious threat to wildlife. If GM fish escaped from fish farms, they could further upset the oceans' delicate ecology, causing ecological disruption or species extinction. Transgenes that increase cold-, salt- or heat-tolerance could allow GM fish to expand into new territories. GM fish with higher disease resistance and better use of nutrients could outcompete wild relatives and change predator–prey relationships, and they could therefore occupy new ecological niches where wild species would usually not survive. Finally, by mating with wild fish, escaped GM fish could spread the transgene among the wild population, which could cause conflicting effects on mating success, viability in natural habitats and other fitness factors required for the species to survive. ...no matter which transgene is used, the main benefit would still be to the native species—provided we can keep our farmed fish from escaping—as any improvements in aquaculture would take the pressure away from ocean fisheries..." http://www.springerlink.com/content/547138tk464j6157/ http://www.springerlink.com/content/v8111648354828p6/ http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=740386 http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1439-0310.2006.01139.x http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v22/n1/full/nbt0104-1.html http://www.springerlink.com/content/6517m60l461342t5/ http://afs.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1577%2FT04-197.1&ct=1 http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v22/n1/full/nbt0104-11.html http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T94-4JBB31G-3&_user=4420034&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000063005&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=4420034&md5=0871cab93a5402f11214a511ffaeef92 Good reading! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glo-fish If anyone cares I have started reading about glo-fish on http://glofish.com <http://glofish.com> There has been many reasons for them to add that extra gene to these fish from polution to medical advances. So far it has been a very informative site. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26601	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish

In a message dated 3/15/2008 7:10:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lilredhd1@... writes: Yes, that site was very interesting - thanks - and the fish are certainly brightly colored. I know you love your danios, but I'm not too keen on the ZDs I have. They don't often group together and instead dart all over the place. That much movement AND color would be a bit much for me. If anyone cares I have started reading about glo-fish on http://glofish.com There has been many reasons for them to add that extra gene to these fish from polution to medical advances. So far it has been a very informative site. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26602	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish

I will check out some of these sites as I said I hadnt even known they existed until a couple of weeks ago and now I am very curious about them and the who, why, what, where and hows of them. As of now all I know for sure is they are the same as my danios I have now except their colors have been genetically altered. I also didnt know what GMO meant until I read this email. Thanks for the links Lenny. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 6:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glo-fish Remember that everything from that site is spun to make everything look hunky-dory. Do a Google Scholar search for independent and/or peer reviewed articles. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=glofish&hl=en&lr= You'll have to look through many links to find some that you can actually read as most of them require fee based subscriptions. Here's some where the abstract of the article is available for free. Even Amanda referred to these glofish as GMO's and I wasn't quite sure what GMO stood for until reading some of these articles. GMO = Genetically Modified Organism. http://jolt.law.harvard.edu/articles/pdf/v19/19HarvJLTech413.pdf (30 page Harvard Article)(A snip from this article states, "...At least one state — California — banned GloFish™ sales, noting that the GloFish™ researchers used genetic engineering on fish for frivolous purposes, and the risks were not all identified.40...") http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1299107 (another long article which has this snip, "...Opponents, even while acknowledging this argument, believe that GM fish nevertheless pose a serious threat to wildlife. If GM fish escaped from fish farms, they could further upset the oceans' delicate ecology, causing ecological disruption or species extinction. Transgenes that increase cold-, salt- or heat-tolerance could allow GM fish to expand into new territories. GM fish with higher disease resistance and better use of nutrients could outcompete wild relatives and change predator–prey relationships, and they could therefore occupy new ecological niches where wild species would usually not survive. Finally, by mating with wild fish, escaped GM fish could spread the transgene among the wild population, which could cause conflicting effects on mating success, viability in natural habitats and other fitness factors required for the species to survive. ...no matter which transgene is used, the main benefit would still be to the native species—provided we can keep our farmed fish from escaping—as any improvements in aquaculture would take the pressure away from ocean fisheries..." http://www.springerlink.com/content/547138tk464j6157/ http://www.springerlink.com/content/v8111648354828p6/ http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=740386 http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1439-0310.2006.01139.x http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v22/n1/full/nbt0104-1.html http://www.springerlink.com/content/6517m60l461342t5/ http://afs.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1577%2FT04-197.1&ct=1 http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v22/n1/full/nbt0104-11.html http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T94-4JBB31G-3&_user=4420034&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000063005&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=4420034&md5=0871cab93a5402f11214a511ffaeef92 Good reading! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glo-fish If anyone cares I have started reading about glo-fish on http://glofish.com <http://glofish.com> There has been many reasons for them to add that extra gene to these fish from polution to medical advances. So far it has been a very informative site. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26603	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish

My ZD's stay together for the most part..one or two will stray from the group every now and then and yes, they are VERY ACTIVE and never seem to get tired. They keep me entertained thats for sure. -----Original Message----- From: Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 6:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Glo-fish In a message dated 3/15/2008 7:10:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lilredhd1@... writes: Yes, that site was very interesting - thanks - and the fish are certainly brightly colored. I know you love your danios, but I'm not too keen on the ZDs I have. They don't often group together and instead dart all over the place. That much movement AND color would be a bit much for me. If anyone cares I have started reading about glo-fish on http://glofish.com There has been many reasons for them to add that extra gene to these fish from polution to medical advances. So far it has been a very informative site. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26604	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies ava

Yorktown has an agreement giving it worldwide marketing rights to the Glo-fish. Though I was not able to pin it down, in a quick search, I am sure that a part of the price of each fish goes to the National University of Singapore who developed the fish. Another company has the right to market another fluorescent fish, a medeka that fluoresces green. The fish is patented, by the person who came up with the procedure to insert the gene into the genome of the fish (see http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7,135,613&OS=7,135,613&RS=7,135,613) and as such, a royalty should be paid. One would hope that the monies thus generated are being used to further the research to reach the original goal of producing fish that will glow when exposed to toxins in the water. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, these fish have not been hybridized. They are zebra danios through an through with just a genetic modification that allows them to glow under the right conditions. In reality, they are no different than the koi people keep in their ponds, the goldfish that people raise in tanks, the guppies that so many people keep, the bettas, and so on. I would agree with your distain for the parrot cichlids, and the "painted" fish, but if you have kept any of the other fish, or ever do, I am afraid that you will need to dismount your high horse, and come down here with the rest of us. Oh, here is a thought. What about the long finned varieties? I really don't care for the long finned zebra, but if others like them, so be it. Just a natural mutation that was bred and developed. I would need to judge them when entered in a show, unlike the parrot cichlids, which would never make it past the rules committee. Amanda is using the fish to get students interested in fish studies and genetics, not a bad thing. I would take issue with a couple of the fish on her list, and I think enough people here have said so, in so many words. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I just get a look of what a glo danio is . I was chock; I thought this school was making only variation of Danio. (http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm) Amanda, I don't care what kind of experiment you are conducting, but at least you should dispose properly of the fish when the experience is finish and not offer to trade them with people. We have enough of those parrot fish, paint injected and fancy gold fish , on the market. I have too agree with Lenny on this one, now that I know the true, between buy by mistake a modify fish, and try to produce more it's a large difference. Those fish serve no other purpose than make Yorktown Technologies (Austin, TX). More rich. Where I don't think like Lenny, is : If they release it in the nature, I'm not worry at all, with their glo color they will be very quick spotted and eat by other fish. :-) -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 7:02 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I actually agree with you but since you blocked me, you'll never know it. ;-) I've written countless times about people with the Dr. Frankenstein complex in wanting to develop mutated fish for decorative purposes. It's why I would never breed mine but since I didn't learn this until after I bought them, I'm not going to just discard or kill them. I give them a nice big tank to live out their lives in and work diligently to keep them as healthy as possible. I guess if someone was trying to genetically engineer a puppy that glows hot pink in the dark, has an 8' long green and yellow tail, short legs in the front and the head is upside down on the body, then people would put it in context and be outraged but since it's just a fish... what the heck! If science feels there is a legitimate scientific reason for this type of experiment that might one day solve a major medical problem or other legitimate purpose, then I wouldn't necessarily have a problem, but doing it merely for the purpose of having a decorative fish to sell to unsuspecting buyers is wrong IMO. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 5:31 PM To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny, I think the mutated goldfish is just as BAD!!!!!!! And Amanda, under Message at the top of your email is block sender. I just added Lenny to my block sender list. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I think the term "non-native invasive species" deals with any non-native species. We usually don't know that they've become "invasive" until years later when they start messing up the ecosystem in the area where they've decided to call home. I'm sure nobody ever thought that Nutria would wreck havoc on the environment down here when they were first introduced hundreds of years ago, but now our local police agencies have to send out their sharp-shooters to shoot the nutria that are proliferating in our canals, bayous, streams, rivers, lakes, marshes and swamps because they are voracious eaters of vegetation which destabilizes the land mass containing the water. Some have even suggested that nutria could be one of the reasons contributing to the levee failures that happened during Hurricane Katrina. The earthen levees rely on surface vegetation to stabilize them and if the nutria ate away a lot of the vegetation, the water would have a much easier chance of eroding the bare mud. They are also blamed for some of the deterioration that is affecting our marshes and helping the coastal erosion problems... who would have thunk a couple of nutria could have contributed to this devastation? Of course, the oil industry, with the paid-off politicians approval, which have dug countless access canals led to the majority of our coastal erosion. Anyhow.. back to the Glo-Fish ZD's. If you want glowing zebra danios (or their natural counterparts) swimming around in your local waters, go for it. I happen to NOT want them in mine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:58 PM To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Is it what you call invasive Lenny ??.... According to the web site you give a link , They found no breeding population in the golf region , only few fish release by someone I get this info from your link. They talk only about a future possibility, Here under the link Current status : "Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Here the text under potential impact. : Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. -----Message d'origine----- De : <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 1:34 PM À : <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26605	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

The only part I find concerning is this. A better, more decorative fish can boost sales and put food on the table for the people who breed, distribute, and market ornamentals. We may not eat them directly, but this is how folks make a living...even small-time "mom and pop" breeders. Fish as décor ok I’m somewhat guilty of that but altering them solely to make them more decorative? If I could I would redirect those research dollars. I think we like to think that the people creating glo-fish and their like are do-anything-for-profit individuals who LACK education. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I actually agree with you but since you blocked me, you'll never know it. ;-) I've written countless times about people with the Dr. Frankenstein complex in wanting to develop mutated fish for decorative purposes. It's why I would never breed mine but since I didn't learn this until after I bought them, I'm not going to just discard or kill them. I give them a nice big tank to live out their lives in and work diligently to keep them as healthy as possible. I guess if someone was trying to genetically engineer a puppy that glows hot pink in the dark, has an 8' long green and yellow tail, short legs in the front and the head is upside down on the body, then people would put it in context and be outraged but since it's just a fish... what the heck! If science feels there is a legitimate scientific reason for this type of experiment that might one day solve a major medical problem or other legitimate purpose, then I wouldn't necessarily have a problem, but doing it merely for the purpose of having a decorative fish to sell to unsuspecting buyers is wrong IMO. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 5:31 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny, I think the mutated goldfish is just as BAD!!!!!!! And Amanda, under Message at the top of your email is block sender. I just added Lenny to my block sender list. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I think the term "non-native invasive species" deals with any non-native species. We usually don't know that they've become "invasive" until years later when they start messing up the ecosystem in the area where they've decided to call home. I'm sure nobody ever thought that Nutria would wreck havoc on the environment down here when they were first introduced hundreds of years ago, but now our local police agencies have to send out their sharp-shooters to shoot the nutria that are proliferating in our canals, bayous, streams, rivers, lakes, marshes and swamps because they are voracious eaters of vegetation which destabilizes the land mass containing the water. Some have even suggested that nutria could be one of the reasons contributing to the levee failures that happened during Hurricane Katrina. The earthen levees rely on surface vegetation to stabilize them and if the nutria ate away a lot of the vegetation, the water would have a much easier chance of eroding the bare mud. They are also blamed for some of the deterioration that is affecting our marshes and helping the coastal erosion problems... who would have thunk a couple of nutria could have contributed to this devastation? Of course, the oil industry, with the paid-off politicians approval, which have dug countless access canals led to the majority of our coastal erosion. Anyhow.. back to the Glo-Fish ZD's. If you want glowing zebra danios (or their natural counterparts) swimming around in your local waters, go for it. I happen to NOT want them in mine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:58 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Is it what you call invasive Lenny ??.... According to the web site you give a link , They found no breeding population in the golf region , only few fish release by someone I get this info from your link. They talk only about a future possibility, Here under the link Current status : "Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Here the text under potential impact. : Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 1:34 PM À : AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26606	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies ava

Why do they need fish that glow when exposed to toxins? Wouldn't testing the water be sufficient and less expensive than the millions of dollars spent on developing GMO fish (genetically mutated organisms)... and speaking of GMO's, why not just develop a simple GMO microbe that would do the toxin-glow job if there is a definite need for such a thing? We both know the answer to that question... it's the Dr. Frankenstein complex that exists in some scientists and the ever increasing need (or should I say greed) for more government grants by most universities. The bigger the GMO, the more money they can STEAL from us taxpayers. When doing a Google Scholar search on glofish, many of the articles also referenced cloning of pets, etc., and you know once they start cloning enough animals successfully, then cloning humans are next. Personally, I'd rather procreate the old fashioned way! And for those who would consider cloning themselves or their kids... personally, I'd rather not see them procreate at all... the old fashioned way or otherwise. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Yorktown has an agreement giving it worldwide marketing rights to the Glo-fish. Though I was not able to pin it down, in a quick search, I am sure that a part of the price of each fish goes to the National University of Singapore who developed the fish. Another company has the right to market another fluorescent fish, a medeka that fluoresces green. The fish is patented, by the person who came up with the procedure to insert the gene into the genome of the fish (see http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fn etahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7,135,613&OS =7,135,613&RS=7,135,613 <http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2F netahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7,135,613&O S=7,135,613&RS=7,135,613> ) and as such, a royalty should be paid. One would hope that the monies thus generated are being used to further the research to reach the original goal of producing fish that will glow when exposed to toxins in the water. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, these fish have not been hybridized. They are zebra danios through an through with just a genetic modification that allows them to glow under the right conditions. In reality, they are no different than the koi people keep in their ponds, the goldfish that people raise in tanks, the guppies that so many people keep, the bettas, and so on. I would agree with your distain for the parrot cichlids, and the "painted" fish, but if you have kept any of the other fish, or ever do, I am afraid that you will need to dismount your high horse, and come down here with the rest of us. Oh, here is a thought. What about the long finned varieties? I really don't care for the long finned zebra, but if others like them, so be it. Just a natural mutation that was bred and developed. I would need to judge them when entered in a show, unlike the parrot cichlids, which would never make it past the rules committee. Amanda is using the fish to get students interested in fish studies and genetics, not a bad thing. I would take issue with a couple of the fish on her list, and I think enough people here have said so, in so many words. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I just get a look of what a glo danio is . I was chock; I thought this school was making only variation of Danio. (http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm <http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm> ) Amanda, I don't care what kind of experiment you are conducting, but at least you should dispose properly of the fish when the experience is finish and not offer to trade them with people. We have enough of those parrot fish, paint injected and fancy gold fish , on the market. I have too agree with Lenny on this one, now that I know the true, between buy by mistake a modify fish, and try to produce more it's a large difference. Those fish serve no other purpose than make Yorktown Technologies (Austin, TX). More rich. Where I don't think like Lenny, is : If they release it in the nature, I'm not worry at all, with their glo color they will be very quick spotted and eat by other fish. :-) -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 7:02 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I actually agree with you but since you blocked me, you'll never know it. ;-) I've written countless times about people with the Dr. Frankenstein complex in wanting to develop mutated fish for decorative purposes. It's why I would never breed mine but since I didn't learn this until after I bought them, I'm not going to just discard or kill them. I give them a nice big tank to live out their lives in and work diligently to keep them as healthy as possible. I guess if someone was trying to genetically engineer a puppy that glows hot pink in the dark, has an 8' long green and yellow tail, short legs in the front and the head is upside down on the body, then people would put it in context and be outraged but since it's just a fish... what the heck! If science feels there is a legitimate scientific reason for this type of experiment that might one day solve a major medical problem or other legitimate purpose, then I wouldn't necessarily have a problem, but doing it merely for the purpose of having a decorative fish to sell to unsuspecting buyers is wrong IMO. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 5:31 PM To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny, I think the mutated goldfish is just as BAD!!!!!!! And Amanda, under Message at the top of your email is block sender. I just added Lenny to my block sender list. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I think the term "non-native invasive species" deals with any non-native species. We usually don't know that they've become "invasive" until years later when they start messing up the ecosystem in the area where they've decided to call home. I'm sure nobody ever thought that Nutria would wreck havoc on the environment down here when they were first introduced hundreds of years ago, but now our local police agencies have to send out their sharp-shooters to shoot the nutria that are proliferating in our canals, bayous, streams, rivers, lakes, marshes and swamps because they are voracious eaters of vegetation which destabilizes the land mass containing the water. Some have even suggested that nutria could be one of the reasons contributing to the levee failures that happened during Hurricane Katrina. The earthen levees rely on surface vegetation to stabilize them and if the nutria ate away a lot of the vegetation, the water would have a much easier chance of eroding the bare mud. They are also blamed for some of the deterioration that is affecting our marshes and helping the coastal erosion problems... who would have thunk a couple of nutria could have contributed to this devastation? Of course, the oil industry, with the paid-off politicians approval, which have dug countless access canals led to the majority of our coastal erosion. Anyhow.. back to the Glo-Fish ZD's. If you want glowing zebra danios (or their natural counterparts) swimming around in your local waters, go for it. I happen to NOT want them in mine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:58 PM To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Is it what you call invasive Lenny ??.... According to the web site you give a link , They found no breeding population in the golf region , only few fish release by someone I get this info from your link. They talk only about a future possibility, Here under the link Current status : "Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Here the text under potential impact. : Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. -----Message d'origine----- De : <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 1:34 PM À : <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26607	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re Brown slime

They do they are called chillers a lot of reef keepers use them. But depending on the fish they could go from the low 60's tothe mid 80's gradually with no problems. Also could the brown on your fish be a result of the algae eaters eating off the sides of the affected fish. The brown on the edges of your fake plants could be brown diatoms. The extra bubbles now in the tank could be from a balanced tank. Planted tanks will sometimes have that. It depends on the plants but usually a balanced aquarium in a planted tank will do that. In a message dated 3/15/2008 2:13:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes: I don't think they make air conditioners for tanks :-) **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26608	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant

My son just surprised me with a new plant for my tank from Petco. It's very pretty =0) I'm real confused though and wanted some input from you guys. It says on the container it came in "Live Aquatic Plant - For Fresh Water Aquariums". The scientific name of the plant is Dracaena Sanderiana. I learned via some reading on the net that it is commonly called the "Lucky Bamboo". Now, here is where I'm all confused. Some people/forums/information say that it IS NOT submersible and others say it is completely submersible. What to you guys know about it? Thanks bunches, Lisa Alabama, USA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26609	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant

It is not a true aquatic plant. I've used them in a 2G Betta Vase before but I had them suspended where only the roots and the bottom couple of inches of the stalk were in the water. I've read posts by others who say they did have them in their tanks but they also had a couple of inches of air space or open top tanks so the stalks would grow out of the water and the leaves would be in the air. Every reputable site that I found about proper care said only a couple of inches of the stalks should be under water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Robinson Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 8:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant My son just surprised me with a new plant for my tank from Petco. It's very pretty =0) I'm real confused though and wanted some input from you guys. It says on the container it came in "Live Aquatic Plant - For Fresh Water Aquariums". The scientific name of the plant is Dracaena Sanderiana. I learned via some reading on the net that it is commonly called the "Lucky Bamboo". Now, here is where I'm all confused. Some people/forums/information say that it IS NOT submersible and others say it is completely submersible. What to you guys know about it? Thanks bunches, Lisa Alabama, USA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26610	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Glo-fish

These fish are pretty tightly controlled in their distribution. They are not available in all states. They are not available in Canada or anywhere else in the world right now, though the glow-medaka is available in the Far East--same team created them, different marketing company controls their distribution.. Only two fish farms are allowed to produce them. It is highly unlikely that they will end up in bait shops any time soon. The patent restrictions will not allow one to breed them for sale unless they are duly authorized to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Glo-fish Yes very interesting reading especially this part in the second paragraph “Also, please remember that GloFish® fluorescent fish are intended for use as aquarium fish only, and should not be used for any other purpose” Now I understand the value of those fish, they gone sell it to fisherman too use it as a bate. Like the glo worm Mark my word and look in the fish and hunt magazine in the next month. -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] De la part de „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Envoyé : March 15, 2008 7:11 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Objet : [AquaticLife] Glo-fish If anyone cares I have started reading about glo-fish on http://glofish. <http://glofish.com> com There has been many reasons for them to add that extra gene to these fish from polution to medical advances. So far it has been a very informative site. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26611	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant

Do you know of any attractive and/or creative ways to do this? My problem is that the plant is 7 inches tall and my tank is 2 ft deep. --------------------------------- It is not a true aquatic plant. I've used them in a 2G Betta Vase before but I had them suspended where only the roots and the bottom couple of inches of the stalk were in the water. I've read posts by others who say they did have them in their tanks but they also had a couple of inches of air space or open top tanks so the stalks would grow out of the water and the leaves would be in the air. Every reputable site that I found about proper care said only a couple of inches of the stalks should be under water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- It says on the container it came in "Live Aquatic Plant - For Fresh Water Aquariums". The scientific name of the plant is Dracaena Sanderiana. I learned via some reading on the net that it is commonly called the "Lucky Bamboo". Now, here is where I'm all confused. Some people/forums/information say that it IS NOT submersible and others say it is completely submersible. What to you guys know about it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26612	From: Angela	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant

I was wondering the same thing as I was in petco today myself. They have them submerged in most all of their tanks and they looked healthy and fine. I'm interested in readying what others have to say too. I was surprised that they had those marimo balls there too. I picked up one cause they're neat :) I want some other plants to, but I need to research the light requirements first. -------Original Message------- From: Lisa Robinson Date: 3/15/2008 9:37:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant My son just surprised me with a new plant for my tank from Petco. It's very pretty =0) I'm real confused though and wanted some input from you guys. It says on the container it came in "Live Aquatic Plant - For Fresh Water Aquariums". The scientific name of the plant is Dracaena Sanderiana. I learned via some reading on the net that it is commonly called the "Lucky Bamboo". Now, here is where I'm all confused. Some people/forums/information say that it IS NOT submersible and others say it is completely submersible. What to you guys know about it? Thanks bunches, Lisa Alabama, USA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26613	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish

I don't know if the readings you did concerning California included the fact that all transgenetic organisms were banned by law prior to the arrival of the glo-fish. Yorktown Technologies petitioned for an exception to the ban. The frivolous purposes was but one of the frivolous arguments used to defeat the argument for an exemption. You have to remember that we are dealing with a political issue here, and it does not really matter if any of the arguments, pro or con, are based on any sort of fact at all. The truth of the matter is that the work was done to lead to a fish that would change in color to identify waters that were polluted with specific toxins. The creation of the glo-fish was merely a step in the process. Whether anything comes from this line of research is up in the air--it just may not be possible to do this in this manner. Meanwhile we do have the glo-fish in the hobby, and while it exists in fairly small numbers, at least around here, I am fairly certain it is here to stay. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glo-fish Remember that everything from that site is spun to make everything look hunky-dory. Do a Google Scholar search for independent and/or peer reviewed articles. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=glofish&hl=en&lr= You'll have to look through many links to find some that you can actually read as most of them require fee based subscriptions. Here's some where the abstract of the article is available for free. Even Amanda referred to these glofish as GMO's and I wasn't quite sure what GMO stood for until reading some of these articles. GMO = Genetically Modified Organism. http://jolt.law.harvard.edu/articles/pdf/v19/19HarvJLTech413.pdf (30 page Harvard Article)(A snip from this article states, "...At least one state — California — banned GloFish™ sales, noting that the GloFish™ researchers used genetic engineering on fish for frivolous purposes, and the risks were not all identified.40...") http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1299107 (another long article which has this snip, "...Opponents, even while acknowledging this argument, believe that GM fish nevertheless pose a serious threat to wildlife. If GM fish escaped from fish farms, they could further upset the oceans' delicate ecology, causing ecological disruption or species extinction. Transgenes that increase cold-, salt- or heat-tolerance could allow GM fish to expand into new territories. GM fish with higher disease resistance and better use of nutrients could outcompete wild relatives and change predator–prey relationships, and they could therefore occupy new ecological niches where wild species would usually not survive. Finally, by mating with wild fish, escaped GM fish could spread the transgene among the wild population, which could cause conflicting effects on mating success, viability in natural habitats and other fitness factors required for the species to survive. ...no matter which transgene is used, the main benefit would still be to the native species—provided we can keep our farmed fish from escaping—as any improvements in aquaculture would take the pressure away from ocean fisheries..." http://www.springerlink.com/content/547138tk464j6157/ http://www.springerlink.com/content/v8111648354828p6/ http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=740386 http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1439-0310.2006.01139.x http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v22/n1/full/nbt0104-1.html http://www.springerlink.com/content/6517m60l461342t5/ http://afs.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1577%2FT04-197.1&ct=1 http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v22/n1/full/nbt0104-11.html http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T94-4JBB31G-3&_user=4420034&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000063005&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=4420034&md5=0871cab93a5402f11214a511ffaeef92 Good reading! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glo-fish If anyone cares I have started reading about glo-fish on http://glofish.com <http://glofish.com> There has been many reasons for them to add that extra gene to these fish from polution to medical advances. So far it has been a very informative site. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26614	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant

If you want to use the plant in your tank to aid in filtration of the water, you could use a clear plastic hang-on-tank breeding separator and then put some river rocks and the lucky bamboo in it. It would be growing out of your tank but would work for a while. The reason I say a while is my lucky bamboo is nearly 3' tall now... growing like crazy just off of weekly water changes and refilling the few inches of water with removed tank water. The lucky bamboo does not like tap water containing chlorine/chloramine but it loves fish water with the nutrients from the fish waste. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Robinson Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant Do you know of any attractive and/or creative ways to do this? My problem is that the plant is 7 inches tall and my tank is 2 ft deep. --------------------------------- It is not a true aquatic plant. I've used them in a 2G Betta Vase before but I had them suspended where only the roots and the bottom couple of inches of the stalk were in the water. I've read posts by others who say they did have them in their tanks but they also had a couple of inches of air space or open top tanks so the stalks would grow out of the water and the leaves would be in the air. Every reputable site that I found about proper care said only a couple of inches of the stalks should be under water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- It says on the container it came in "Live Aquatic Plant - For Fresh Water Aquariums". The scientific name of the plant is Dracaena Sanderiana. I learned via some reading on the net that it is commonly called the "Lucky Bamboo". Now, here is where I'm all confused. Some people/forums/information say that it IS NOT submersible and others say it is completely submersible. What to you guys know about it? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26615	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant

That's ordinary bamboo. It is NOT completely submersible, only the roots are submersible. It can be grown either in water OR soil. An easy to find plant that IS submersible is the Devil's Ivy. I have grown it underwater in plastic pots containing pea-sized gravel. Christa --- Lisa Robinson <oo.lisa.oo@...> wrote: > My son just surprised me with a new plant for my > tank from Petco. It's very > pretty =0) > > I'm real confused though and wanted some input from > you guys. It says on the > > container it came in "Live Aquatic Plant - For Fresh > Water Aquariums". The > scientific name > > of the plant is Dracaena Sanderiana. I learned via > some reading on the net > that > > it is commonly called the "Lucky Bamboo". Now, here > is where I'm all > confused. > > Some people/forums/information say that it IS NOT > submersible and others say > it > > is completely submersible. What to you guys know > about it? > > Thanks bunches, > > > > Lisa > > Alabama, USA > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26616	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies ava

Lenny, The fish would give immediate feedback. Testing is not as quick, and probably not as cheap in the long run as developing an aquatic organism that would do the same thing. Remember also, the development work was done in Singapore, and the major area of the need would probably be in that part of the world where the zebras are endemic. It is also possible that the fish would be more sensitive to the pollutants than the tests are. One could also extrapolate that once the zebras are perfected, the work could be done with other fish for use in other parts of the world where they are endemic. While I saw you cite any number of works against this work, I did not see that you found any cites explaining what the work was. I used www.scirus for my search, and like yours, there are a lot of articles that you need to be a subscriber to receive the full text, but abstracts are available. Here is a link to a paper describing some of the work that Zhiyuan Gong (the one who patented the process for glo-fish) is doing: http://www.scirus.com/srsapp/search?q=Zhiyuan+Gong+pollution&t=all&sort=0 This article states that both the zebra fish and the medeka have a reaction to estrogen as low as 0.1 micrograms per liter. And here is a piece on the university web site showing what research he is doing: http://www.dbs.nus.edu.sg/staff/gong.htm \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Why do they need fish that glow when exposed to toxins? Wouldn't testing the water be sufficient and less expensive than the millions of dollars spent on developing GMO fish (genetically mutated organisms)... and speaking of GMO's, why not just develop a simple GMO microbe that would do the toxin-glow job if there is a definite need for such a thing? We both know the answer to that question... it's the Dr. Frankenstein complex that exists in some scientists and the ever increasing need (or should I say greed) for more government grants by most universities. The bigger the GMO, the more money they can STEAL from us taxpayers. When doing a Google Scholar search on glofish, many of the articles also referenced cloning of pets, etc., and you know once they start cloning enough animals successfully, then cloning humans are next. Personally, I'd rather procreate the old fashioned way! And for those who would consider cloning themselves or their kids... personally, I'd rather not see them procreate at all... the old fashioned way or otherwise. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Yorktown has an agreement giving it worldwide marketing rights to the Glo-fish. Though I was not able to pin it down, in a quick search, I am sure that a part of the price of each fish goes to the National University of Singapore who developed the fish. Another company has the right to market another fluorescent fish, a medeka that fluoresces green. The fish is patented, by the person who came up with the procedure to insert the gene into the genome of the fish (see http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fn etahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7,135,613&OS =7,135,613&RS=7,135,613 <http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2F netahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7,135,613&O S=7,135,613&RS=7,135,613> ) and as such, a royalty should be paid. One would hope that the monies thus generated are being used to further the research to reach the original goal of producing fish that will glow when exposed to toxins in the water. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, these fish have not been hybridized. They are zebra danios through an through with just a genetic modification that allows them to glow under the right conditions. In reality, they are no different than the koi people keep in their ponds, the goldfish that people raise in tanks, the guppies that so many people keep, the bettas, and so on. I would agree with your distain for the parrot cichlids, and the "painted" fish, but if you have kept any of the other fish, or ever do, I am afraid that you will need to dismount your high horse, and come down here with the rest of us. Oh, here is a thought. What about the long finned varieties? I really don't care for the long finned zebra, but if others like them, so be it. Just a natural mutation that was bred and developed. I would need to judge them when entered in a show, unlike the parrot cichlids, which would never make it past the rules committee. Amanda is using the fish to get students interested in fish studies and genetics, not a bad thing. I would take issue with a couple of the fish on her list, and I think enough people here have said so, in so many words. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I just get a look of what a glo danio is . I was chock; I thought this school was making only variation of Danio. (http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm <http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm> ) Amanda, I don't care what kind of experiment you are conducting, but at least you should dispose properly of the fish when the experience is finish and not offer to trade them with people. We have enough of those parrot fish, paint injected and fancy gold fish , on the market. I have too agree with Lenny on this one, now that I know the true, between buy by mistake a modify fish, and try to produce more it's a large difference. Those fish serve no other purpose than make Yorktown Technologies (Austin, TX). More rich. Where I don't think like Lenny, is : If they release it in the nature, I'm not worry at all, with their glo color they will be very quick spotted and eat by other fish. :-) -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 7:02 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I actually agree with you but since you blocked me, you'll never know it. ;-) I've written countless times about people with the Dr. Frankenstein complex in wanting to develop mutated fish for decorative purposes. It's why I would never breed mine but since I didn't learn this until after I bought them, I'm not going to just discard or kill them. I give them a nice big tank to live out their lives in and work diligently to keep them as healthy as possible. I guess if someone was trying to genetically engineer a puppy that glows hot pink in the dark, has an 8' long green and yellow tail, short legs in the front and the head is upside down on the body, then people would put it in context and be outraged but since it's just a fish... what the heck! If science feels there is a legitimate scientific reason for this type of experiment that might one day solve a major medical problem or other legitimate purpose, then I wouldn't necessarily have a problem, but doing it merely for the purpose of having a decorative fish to sell to unsuspecting buyers is wrong IMO. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 5:31 PM To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny, I think the mutated goldfish is just as BAD!!!!!!! And Amanda, under Message at the top of your email is block sender. I just added Lenny to my block sender list. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I think the term "non-native invasive species" deals with any non-native species. We usually don't know that they've become "invasive" until years later when they start messing up the ecosystem in the area where they've decided to call home. I'm sure nobody ever thought that Nutria would wreck havoc on the environment down here when they were first introduced hundreds of years ago, but now our local police agencies have to send out their sharp-shooters to shoot the nutria that are proliferating in our canals, bayous, streams, rivers, lakes, marshes and swamps because they are voracious eaters of vegetation which destabilizes the land mass containing the water. Some have even suggested that nutria could be one of the reasons contributing to the levee failures that happened during Hurricane Katrina. The earthen levees rely on surface vegetation to stabilize them and if the nutria ate away a lot of the vegetation, the water would have a much easier chance of eroding the bare mud. They are also blamed for some of the deterioration that is affecting our marshes and helping the coastal erosion problems... who would have thunk a couple of nutria could have contributed to this devastation? Of course, the oil industry, with the paid-off politicians approval, which have dug countless access canals led to the majority of our coastal erosion. Anyhow.. back to the Glo-Fish ZD's. If you want glowing zebra danios (or their natural counterparts) swimming around in your local waters, go for it. I happen to NOT want them in mine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:58 PM To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Is it what you call invasive Lenny ??.... According to the web site you give a link , They found no breeding population in the golf region , only few fish release by someone I get this info from your link. They talk only about a future possibility, Here under the link Current status : "Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Here the text under potential impact. : Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. -----Message d'origine----- De : <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 1:34 PM À : <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26617	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant

Thus far you have gotten good advice. The plant does like it moist, at least. If it is kept in water, and it is also sold that way quite often, then jus the roots and a small part of the stem are submersed, and it is always cautioned to change the water every two weeks. If you were to keep it as part of your décor around the tank, you would need to determine the best way to suspend it so that the roots were in the water, and the water would flow in and around them. Your partial water changes would take care of the need to change the water to prevent root rot, and the water would also supply the needed nutrients, something not really covered in what I saw online in the few articles or listings I looked at. The idea of a plastic container filled with rocks is a good one, but I'd drill a number of holes in it for water changes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Robinson Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant My son just surprised me with a new plant for my tank from Petco. It's very pretty =0) I'm real confused though and wanted some input from you guys. It says on the container it came in "Live Aquatic Plant - For Fresh Water Aquariums". The scientific name of the plant is Dracaena Sanderiana. I learned via some reading on the net that it is commonly called the "Lucky Bamboo". Now, here is where I'm all confused. Some people/forums/information say that it IS NOT submersible and others say it is completely submersible. What to you guys know about it? Thanks bunches, Lisa Alabama, USA ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26618	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant

Most plants that are not aquatic will last for at least a few weeks submerged. All too many stores sell terrestrial plants as aquatics either through ignorance or to make the money. Of course, little known by most hobbyists, many of the plants we use in our tanks have a submersed form and an emerged form. They developed both forms since they lived in areas where the water supply is not consistent. The grow submersed during the rainy season and until the water recedes, at which time they grow emerged. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angela Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant I was wondering the same thing as I was in petco today myself. They have them submerged in most all of their tanks and they looked healthy and fine. I'm interested in readying what others have to say too. I was surprised that they had those marimo balls there too. I picked up one cause they're neat :) I want some other plants to, but I need to research the light requirements first. -------Original Message------- From: Lisa Robinson Date: 3/15/2008 9:37:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant My son just surprised me with a new plant for my tank from Petco. It's very pretty =0) I'm real confused though and wanted some input from you guys. It says on the container it came in "Live Aquatic Plant - For Fresh Water Aquariums". The scientific name of the plant is Dracaena Sanderiana. I learned via some reading on the net that it is commonly called the "Lucky Bamboo". Now, here is where I'm all confused. Some people/forums/information say that it IS NOT submersible and others say it is completely submersible. What to you guys know about it? Thanks bunches, Lisa Alabama, USA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26619	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies ava

I simply posted all of the links that had some kind of abstract or full paper without regard to whether it was pro or con... although I did snip some of the con things from the top two full length articles. While I understand the so-called reasons for developing this GMO fish, I still don't see where it is cheaper to use fish rather than a more simple organism. Also, based on Amanda's cross breeding tests, the glofish offspring pick up traits from both parents so eventually the red, green and orange fish will cross breed into a grayish-brown mutant zebra danios... that's presuming these fish would be let loose into public waterways to "monitor" the water conditions. From the link you sent me, it seems I'm not the only one who leans towards these scientists having the Dr. Frankenstein complex. http://newshub.nus.edu.sg/news/0703/pdf/17-3-ST-GlowingFish.pdf is a published news article which starts off with "Did you know popular writer Michael Crichton's futuristic thriller, 'Next', has a segment on the fishy work of a real-life... scientist?" (based on Professor Gong Zhiyuan). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny, The fish would give immediate feedback. Testing is not as quick, and probably not as cheap in the long run as developing an aquatic organism that would do the same thing. Remember also, the development work was done in Singapore, and the major area of the need would probably be in that part of the world where the zebras are endemic. It is also possible that the fish would be more sensitive to the pollutants than the tests are. One could also extrapolate that once the zebras are perfected, the work could be done with other fish for use in other parts of the world where they are endemic. While I saw you cite any number of works against this work, I did not see that you found any cites explaining what the work was. I used www.scirus for my search, and like yours, there are a lot of articles that you need to be a subscriber to receive the full text, but abstracts are available. Here is a link to a paper describing some of the work that Zhiyuan Gong (the one who patented the process for glo-fish) is doing: http://www.scirus.com/srsapp/search?q=Zhiyuan+Gong+pollution&t=all&sort=0 <http://www.scirus.com/srsapp/search?q=Zhiyuan+Gong+pollution&t=all&sort=0> This article states that both the zebra fish and the medeka have a reaction to estrogen as low as 0.1 micrograms per liter. And here is a piece on the university web site showing what research he is doing: http://www.dbs.nus.edu.sg/staff/gong.htm <http://www.dbs.nus.edu.sg/staff/gong.htm> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Why do they need fish that glow when exposed to toxins? Wouldn't testing the water be sufficient and less expensive than the millions of dollars spent on developing GMO fish (genetically mutated organisms)... and speaking of GMO's, why not just develop a simple GMO microbe that would do the toxin-glow job if there is a definite need for such a thing? We both know the answer to that question... it's the Dr. Frankenstein complex that exists in some scientists and the ever increasing need (or should I say greed) for more government grants by most universities. The bigger the GMO, the more money they can STEAL from us taxpayers. When doing a Google Scholar search on glofish, many of the articles also referenced cloning of pets, etc., and you know once they start cloning enough animals successfully, then cloning humans are next. Personally, I'd rather procreate the old fashioned way! And for those who would consider cloning themselves or their kids... personally, I'd rather not see them procreate at all... the old fashioned way or otherwise. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Yorktown has an agreement giving it worldwide marketing rights to the Glo-fish. Though I was not able to pin it down, in a quick search, I am sure that a part of the price of each fish goes to the National University of Singapore who developed the fish. Another company has the right to market another fluorescent fish, a medeka that fluoresces green. The fish is patented, by the person who came up with the procedure to insert the gene into the genome of the fish (see http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fn <http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2F n> etahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7,135,613&OS =7,135,613&RS=7,135,613 <http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2F <http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2F > netahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7,135,613&O S=7,135,613&RS=7,135,613> ) and as such, a royalty should be paid. One would hope that the monies thus generated are being used to further the research to reach the original goal of producing fish that will glow when exposed to toxins in the water. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, these fish have not been hybridized. They are zebra danios through an through with just a genetic modification that allows them to glow under the right conditions. In reality, they are no different than the koi people keep in their ponds, the goldfish that people raise in tanks, the guppies that so many people keep, the bettas, and so on. I would agree with your distain for the parrot cichlids, and the "painted" fish, but if you have kept any of the other fish, or ever do, I am afraid that you will need to dismount your high horse, and come down here with the rest of us. Oh, here is a thought. What about the long finned varieties? I really don't care for the long finned zebra, but if others like them, so be it. Just a natural mutation that was bred and developed. I would need to judge them when entered in a show, unlike the parrot cichlids, which would never make it past the rules committee. Amanda is using the fish to get students interested in fish studies and genetics, not a bad thing. I would take issue with a couple of the fish on her list, and I think enough people here have said so, in so many words. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I just get a look of what a glo danio is . I was chock; I thought this school was making only variation of Danio. (http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm <http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm> <http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm <http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm> > ) Amanda, I don't care what kind of experiment you are conducting, but at least you should dispose properly of the fish when the experience is finish and not offer to trade them with people. We have enough of those parrot fish, paint injected and fancy gold fish , on the market. I have too agree with Lenny on this one, now that I know the true, between buy by mistake a modify fish, and try to produce more it's a large difference. Those fish serve no other purpose than make Yorktown Technologies (Austin, TX). More rich. Where I don't think like Lenny, is : If they release it in the nature, I'm not worry at all, with their glo color they will be very quick spotted and eat by other fish. :-) -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 7:02 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I actually agree with you but since you blocked me, you'll never know it. ;-) I've written countless times about people with the Dr. Frankenstein complex in wanting to develop mutated fish for decorative purposes. It's why I would never breed mine but since I didn't learn this until after I bought them, I'm not going to just discard or kill them. I give them a nice big tank to live out their lives in and work diligently to keep them as healthy as possible. I guess if someone was trying to genetically engineer a puppy that glows hot pink in the dark, has an 8' long green and yellow tail, short legs in the front and the head is upside down on the body, then people would put it in context and be outraged but since it's just a fish... what the heck! If science feels there is a legitimate scientific reason for this type of experiment that might one day solve a major medical problem or other legitimate purpose, then I wouldn't necessarily have a problem, but doing it merely for the purpose of having a decorative fish to sell to unsuspecting buyers is wrong IMO. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 5:31 PM To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny, I think the mutated goldfish is just as BAD!!!!!!! And Amanda, under Message at the top of your email is block sender. I just added Lenny to my block sender list. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I think the term "non-native invasive species" deals with any non-native species. We usually don't know that they've become "invasive" until years later when they start messing up the ecosystem in the area where they've decided to call home. I'm sure nobody ever thought that Nutria would wreck havoc on the environment down here when they were first introduced hundreds of years ago, but now our local police agencies have to send out their sharp-shooters to shoot the nutria that are proliferating in our canals, bayous, streams, rivers, lakes, marshes and swamps because they are voracious eaters of vegetation which destabilizes the land mass containing the water. Some have even suggested that nutria could be one of the reasons contributing to the levee failures that happened during Hurricane Katrina. The earthen levees rely on surface vegetation to stabilize them and if the nutria ate away a lot of the vegetation, the water would have a much easier chance of eroding the bare mud. They are also blamed for some of the deterioration that is affecting our marshes and helping the coastal erosion problems... who would have thunk a couple of nutria could have contributed to this devastation? Of course, the oil industry, with the paid-off politicians approval, which have dug countless access canals led to the majority of our coastal erosion. Anyhow.. back to the Glo-Fish ZD's. If you want glowing zebra danios (or their natural counterparts) swimming around in your local waters, go for it. I happen to NOT want them in mine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:58 PM To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Is it what you call invasive Lenny ??.... According to the web site you give a link , They found no breeding population in the golf region , only few fish release by someone I get this info from your link. They talk only about a future possibility, Here under the link Current status : "Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Here the text under potential impact. : Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. -----Message d'origine----- De : <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 1:34 PM À : <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26620	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies ava

Each of the colors come from a different organism. I do not think the intent is to have all colors present in a given body of water, it was just to test to see what would be expressed when using this, that, or the other thing. I would suspect that only one color would be present, and it would only be expressed when a certain chemical or chemicals were present in the water. The rest of the time, the fish would be like any other of their species. At least that is what my reading of the subject led me to believe when I did the research a few years back. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I simply posted all of the links that had some kind of abstract or full paper without regard to whether it was pro or con... although I did snip some of the con things from the top two full length articles. While I understand the so-called reasons for developing this GMO fish, I still don't see where it is cheaper to use fish rather than a more simple organism. Also, based on Amanda's cross breeding tests, the glofish offspring pick up traits from both parents so eventually the red, green and orange fish will cross breed into a grayish-brown mutant zebra danios... that's presuming these fish would be let loose into public waterways to "monitor" the water conditions. From the link you sent me, it seems I'm not the only one who leans towards these scientists having the Dr. Frankenstein complex. http://newshub.nus.edu.sg/news/0703/pdf/17-3-ST-GlowingFish.pdf is a published news article which starts off with "Did you know popular writer Michael Crichton's futuristic thriller, 'Next', has a segment on the fishy work of a real-life... scientist?" (based on Professor Gong Zhiyuan). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny, The fish would give immediate feedback. Testing is not as quick, and probably not as cheap in the long run as developing an aquatic organism that would do the same thing. Remember also, the development work was done in Singapore, and the major area of the need would probably be in that part of the world where the zebras are endemic. It is also possible that the fish would be more sensitive to the pollutants than the tests are. One could also extrapolate that once the zebras are perfected, the work could be done with other fish for use in other parts of the world where they are endemic. While I saw you cite any number of works against this work, I did not see that you found any cites explaining what the work was. I used www.scirus for my search, and like yours, there are a lot of articles that you need to be a subscriber to receive the full text, but abstracts are available. Here is a link to a paper describing some of the work that Zhiyuan Gong (the one who patented the process for glo-fish) is doing: http://www.scirus.com/srsapp/search?q=Zhiyuan+Gong+pollution&t=all&sort=0 <http://www.scirus.com/srsapp/search?q=Zhiyuan+Gong+pollution&t=all&sort=0> This article states that both the zebra fish and the medeka have a reaction to estrogen as low as 0.1 micrograms per liter. And here is a piece on the university web site showing what research he is doing: http://www.dbs.nus.edu.sg/staff/gong.htm <http://www.dbs.nus.edu.sg/staff/gong.htm> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Why do they need fish that glow when exposed to toxins? Wouldn't testing the water be sufficient and less expensive than the millions of dollars spent on developing GMO fish (genetically mutated organisms)... and speaking of GMO's, why not just develop a simple GMO microbe that would do the toxin-glow job if there is a definite need for such a thing? We both know the answer to that question... it's the Dr. Frankenstein complex that exists in some scientists and the ever increasing need (or should I say greed) for more government grants by most universities. The bigger the GMO, the more money they can STEAL from us taxpayers. When doing a Google Scholar search on glofish, many of the articles also referenced cloning of pets, etc., and you know once they start cloning enough animals successfully, then cloning humans are next. Personally, I'd rather procreate the old fashioned way! And for those who would consider cloning themselves or their kids... personally, I'd rather not see them procreate at all... the old fashioned way or otherwise. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Yorktown has an agreement giving it worldwide marketing rights to the Glo-fish. Though I was not able to pin it down, in a quick search, I am sure that a part of the price of each fish goes to the National University of Singapore who developed the fish. Another company has the right to market another fluorescent fish, a medeka that fluoresces green. The fish is patented, by the person who came up with the procedure to insert the gene into the genome of the fish (see http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fn <http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2F n> etahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7,135,613&OS =7,135,613&RS=7,135,613 <http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2F <http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2F > netahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7,135,613&O S=7,135,613&RS=7,135,613> ) and as such, a royalty should be paid. One would hope that the monies thus generated are being used to further the research to reach the original goal of producing fish that will glow when exposed to toxins in the water. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, these fish have not been hybridized. They are zebra danios through an through with just a genetic modification that allows them to glow under the right conditions. In reality, they are no different than the koi people keep in their ponds, the goldfish that people raise in tanks, the guppies that so many people keep, the bettas, and so on. I would agree with your distain for the parrot cichlids, and the "painted" fish, but if you have kept any of the other fish, or ever do, I am afraid that you will need to dismount your high horse, and come down here with the rest of us. Oh, here is a thought. What about the long finned varieties? I really don't care for the long finned zebra, but if others like them, so be it. Just a natural mutation that was bred and developed. I would need to judge them when entered in a show, unlike the parrot cichlids, which would never make it past the rules committee. Amanda is using the fish to get students interested in fish studies and genetics, not a bad thing. I would take issue with a couple of the fish on her list, and I think enough people here have said so, in so many words. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I just get a look of what a glo danio is . I was chock; I thought this school was making only variation of Danio. (http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm <http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm> <http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm <http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm> > ) Amanda, I don't care what kind of experiment you are conducting, but at least you should dispose properly of the fish when the experience is finish and not offer to trade them with people. We have enough of those parrot fish, paint injected and fancy gold fish , on the market. I have too agree with Lenny on this one, now that I know the true, between buy by mistake a modify fish, and try to produce more it's a large difference. Those fish serve no other purpose than make Yorktown Technologies (Austin, TX). More rich. Where I don't think like Lenny, is : If they release it in the nature, I'm not worry at all, with their glo color they will be very quick spotted and eat by other fish. :-) -----Message d'origine----- De : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 7:02 PM À : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I actually agree with you but since you blocked me, you'll never know it. ;-) I've written countless times about people with the Dr. Frankenstein complex in wanting to develop mutated fish for decorative purposes. It's why I would never breed mine but since I didn't learn this until after I bought them, I'm not going to just discard or kill them. I give them a nice big tank to live out their lives in and work diligently to keep them as healthy as possible. I guess if someone was trying to genetically engineer a puppy that glows hot pink in the dark, has an 8' long green and yellow tail, short legs in the front and the head is upside down on the body, then people would put it in context and be outraged but since it's just a fish... what the heck! If science feels there is a legitimate scientific reason for this type of experiment that might one day solve a major medical problem or other legitimate purpose, then I wouldn't necessarily have a problem, but doing it merely for the purpose of having a decorative fish to sell to unsuspecting buyers is wrong IMO. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 5:31 PM To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Lenny, I think the mutated goldfish is just as BAD!!!!!!! And Amanda, under Message at the top of your email is block sender. I just added Lenny to my block sender list. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I think the term "non-native invasive species" deals with any non-native species. We usually don't know that they've become "invasive" until years later when they start messing up the ecosystem in the area where they've decided to call home. I'm sure nobody ever thought that Nutria would wreck havoc on the environment down here when they were first introduced hundreds of years ago, but now our local police agencies have to send out their sharp-shooters to shoot the nutria that are proliferating in our canals, bayous, streams, rivers, lakes, marshes and swamps because they are voracious eaters of vegetation which destabilizes the land mass containing the water. Some have even suggested that nutria could be one of the reasons contributing to the levee failures that happened during Hurricane Katrina. The earthen levees rely on surface vegetation to stabilize them and if the nutria ate away a lot of the vegetation, the water would have a much easier chance of eroding the bare mud. They are also blamed for some of the deterioration that is affecting our marshes and helping the coastal erosion problems... who would have thunk a couple of nutria could have contributed to this devastation? Of course, the oil industry, with the paid-off politicians approval, which have dug countless access canals led to the majority of our coastal erosion. Anyhow.. back to the Glo-Fish ZD's. If you want glowing zebra danios (or their natural counterparts) swimming around in your local waters, go for it. I happen to NOT want them in mine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Natural Aquarium Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:58 PM To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Is it what you call invasive Lenny ??.... According to the web site you give a link , They found no breeding population in the golf region , only few fish release by someone I get this info from your link. They talk only about a future possibility, Here under the link Current status : "Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Here the text under potential impact. : Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. -----Message d'origine----- De : <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Envoyé : March 15, 2008 1:34 PM À : <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Objet : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26621	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo fish

California — banned GloFish™ sales, noting that the GloFish™ researchers used genetic engineering on fish for frivolous purposes, and the risks were not all identified.40...") Yeah but California bans  everything.  They practically say the same thing about  Java finches and Ferrets   (these animals and others are considered threats to the state) Joey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26622	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

Ok, I added the live plants just yesterday (the fish had been laying around on the bottom for a day or two before...so the plants are not the cause of the problem (at least not this problem...I have no idea if they'll cause additional problems, I am hhoping they will help somehow). Yes I am the one using Jungle Lifeguard...but in a different tank. This tank has had half the recommended amount of salt added, and I tossed in a couple tablets of Ick Guard when I saw the spots (yes they look a lot like salt on the black mollies and somewhat like salt on the swordtail...on the swordtail, if I get a real close look, it almost looks like some is "hanging" off his tail, but it is very very small). UNFORTUNATELY, I forgot to take the filter cartridge out when I added the Ick Guard, so I don't know if it did much good. Was thinking of doing a partial water change/gravel vacuum tomorrow. The mama fish...She is temporarily going into a 5 gallon tank to have the babies, then she will be moved back to the big tank while the babies grow big enough so they won't get eaten...and then I'll probably give them away anyway. Oh, I wasn't thinking of getting an air conditioner for the tank, I was just wondering if they made them because I would imagine someone living in a hot enough climate would need to find a way to keep their tank from overheating :-) Question#1: Would letting a filter sit in the water of the big tank get the good bacteria on it? (I can't fit two in my actual filter system...not enough room). Question#2: Do you think i should take away their hiding spot in the fake plant that floats in the tank, since it has started getting brown stuff on it? (I don't know if it is algae or not, have no idea what it is...comes off if I rub it with my fingers or a towel). Question#3: The one male swordtail that I see what on has white stringy looking things hanging off his tail (from the sword part of his tail and from the regular fin-looking part of his tail). Does Ich do that??? Question#4: Would it do ANY good to put the fizzy Ick Guard tablets in with the filter cartridge still in there? Question#5: If the answer to #4 is that it probably did NOT filter it all out...should I still do a partial water change tomorrow? Or should I wait? Question#6: My mama fish looks like her lips (do fish have lips?) might be turning white...is that a sign of Ich? Or something else? Will she pass it on to her babies? Question#7: I may also have 2 pregnant yellow Glofish in my one healthy tank. I only have one spare tank (the 5 gallon). I do not have one of those nets that floats in the water for the babies. Is there any way to combine the babies in the one tank? I worry because if the swordtail mama has anything wrng with her, can't it spread to the yellow Glofish mamas before having the babies? The the Glofish would take it back to my one healthy tank with them and I would no longer have ANY healthy fish...plus it could all get passed onto all the babies too, right? Question#8: Juvenile mollies and powder blue gourami are swimming almost straight up and down, tail pointed down...what would make them do that? Sorry for so many questions :-( I had no intention of breeding fish. From what I had been told (not by you, but by a lot of people) was that fish needed very specific conditions to breed. I guess that isn't always true, or I wouldn't be looking at at least one of my fish having babies (I am not SURE about the glofish being pregnant...but they are a lot fatter than they were, and the orange/pink glofish are still slim (maybe they are males?)). I believe the swordtail was pregnant when I got it, as she looked to be the fattest looking fish in the tank of the people I got them from. thanks for all the help, anndrea --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, a bacterial infection or anything causing them to "feel bad" will lead > them to laying on the bottom with fins clamped. It's one of the ways a fish > tells you they aren't feeling well. > > You mentioned adding live plants. Did you happen to add them shortly before > the fish started feeling bad? If you did, there is a chance you could have > introduced a new bacteria into their tank with the plants. While they may > have been able to handle the new bacteria with their own immune systems, > combined with the broad temperature swings, which can cause shock to a fish > and weaken their immune systems, this possible new bacteria could be the > cause of their maladies. Yes, ammonia spikes or dirty gravel could also > lead to immune system issues or increased levels of bacterial growth. > > While Melafix is helpful with external issues, it's not as good on internal > issues. Weren't you using Jungle Lifeguard or maybe I'm confusing this > thread with one of the many others? It's not good to mix and match drugs. > It's best to try one treatment plan and if that isn't working, then you do a > series of PWC's and run some fresh carbon to remove the meds and try > something else. Of course, with each treatment, a weakened fish could get > worse as their gills, kidneys and osmoregulatory systems have to work harder > to deal with the meds in the water. > > It's a good idea to give fish a few days of rest with just fresh water, > maybe with some salt, in between medical treatment changes. > > Those online tutorials are not movies. They are websites with a section on > each phase of fish keeping. In these days of YouTube, et al, maybe someone > should set up a video series but I like the idea of text that I can glance > over quicker to find what I need. Further, it's a proven fact that people > learn and retain much more from reading compared to watching a movie. I > know the Cliff's Notes always sunk in better than the rental video on books > I was supposed to read in high school, etc. LOL > > As to the momma fish. Yes, adding even a piece of filter media from a > cycled tank will go a long way towards fully cycling a new tank. For > example, say you have 10 fish in one tank and you have to move one to a > Q-tank. If you just move 1/10th (10%) of the filter media to the Q- tank, > both tanks should remain fully cycled. Even if you transfer too much to the > Q-tank, the older tank will likely not see much, if any, of a cycle issue > since the nitrifying bacteria are capable of doubling their colony size > every 24-48 hours. Now if you remove 90%, that would have more of an > effect. > > If you only have a single filter system on a tank, you shouldn't over-clean > the filter media. With multiple filter systems or filters with multiple > media layers, then cleaning one layer should not cause problems. For > example, in my canister filters, I have the water passing through a large > pore sponge first, then a smaller pore sponge, then several layers of filter > floss pads, then through a micro-filtration pad and finally through Purigen > for chemical filtration. I usually just rinse/squeeze the sponges out in > dechlored water or removed tank water. This removes any big detritus while > keeping all of the nitrifying bacteria alive on the sponge walls. Then I > may use the faucet, even with hot water on one or more of the remaining > floss pads to get them super clean but leave one or more of the other floss > pads only rinsed/squeezed in dechlored water so the nitrifying bacteria on > those pads are mostly unaffected. Using this system, I've never had a > mini-cycle.... even in my goldfish tank. I also have two filter systems on > the tank so when I might clean one of them, the other stays "dirty" but > fully cycled. I alternate cleaning them every two weeks. > > Now, as to the white specks on your molly. Does it look like salt sprinkled > on the fish? If so, you could be getting an Ich outbreak... which does seem > to happen with quick temperature drops or other stressors. Here's a short > article on diagnosing and treating Ich. http://fish.orbust.net/ich.html > Here's a longer article with pictures. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php > > Last but not least.. yes they do sell air conditioners for fish tanks.. > called chillers.. but they are very expensive. There are easier ways to > keep the tanks cooler during the hot summer months. One simple way is to > get a fan on a stand and point it at the surface of the water (remove the > top first) and increase the surface agitation and this will "cool" down the > water slowly. There's no need to take out your heaters during the summer > months. Just leave them set at their normal temps and they simply won't > turn on if the water stays warmer than the thermostat temperature... but at > least if things get cold in the house, they will kick on to keep the tanks > temperature from dropping too much or too quick. > > I think I answered all of your questions. If not, go through and number > them so I can make sure I get them all. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Anndrea > Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > > Ok, I have a heater in every tank, but when it started getting too hot in > the house and the tanks were getting up to like 84* I turned the heaters > down...it holds pretty steady around 76* but when the house heats up too > much, it goes up. I don't think they make air conditioners for tanks :-) > > As for my algae eaters, when they start to get bigger and I think they are > too big for my tank, I have a friend with a 90 gallon that they will go to, > if I haven't ended up getting a bigger tank by then (which I probably > won't...but my friend wants them when they get big). They are only a few > inches at most right now. On a side note, I am a little excited because I > got the alage eater in the 20 gallon tank (the one that has the > bottom-sitting, clamped-fin fish in it) to eat zucchini. I don't think I > have much algae being my tank is still pretty new (though there IS something > brown on the edges of some of the leaves on my one fake plant), so I am > happy to see him eating something and knowing in my head he isn't starving > :-) > > I talked to a guy at Petsmart (I know they are not gurus, and most don't > know much, but this guy actually seemed to know a lot, I think) and he said > the fish doing this "body wagging" thing they have been doing is called > "shimmying" and he thinks it is a bacterial infection (of course he says he > can't say much without actually seeing the fish, but it sounds bacterial > from what I have told him - same stuff I have told you). So, I am thinking > about getting some Melafix...can I add that AND salt to the water??? > > Also, could a bacterial infection cause them to lay on the bottom like they > are??? > > What could have caused a bacterial infection if that is what it is? I > haven't added any fish for a couple of weeks...but I don't know how long it > would take for it them to show signs if that fish brought something in with > him. Or could ammonia or dirty gravel cause it? > > Ohhhhh, maybe THAT was it...you said something about water temperature > changes causing the fish to succumb to bacterial issues...When the heater > was maintaining the tank at 76 and the weather got hot, and the temperature > spiked up to like 84, then I got it to drop to 76 again...that happened > pretty quickly...I didn't think water could change temperature so quickly in > so many gallons. > > If it is bacterial, will Melafix take care of it? > > If I have a pregnant fish (which I think I do), and I put her into a clean > clean tank, will the babies survive? The tank would be brand new and > cycling, but I can put the filter from my one tank that is having no > problems into the tank with the mama fish and babies, will that help > cycling??? > > Oh, and I added live plants to my 20 gallon bottom-sitting fins- clamped > fish tank. There is still a fake floating in the top to give them hiding > places, but I took out the rest of the fakes and replaced with live...all > the fakes have this brown stuff on them...I know there is some kind of brown > colored algae...maybe I should take the fake floating plant out, too? To get > all that brown stuff out of the tank??? > > I have had the best intentions and have been meaning to do the tutorials on > your site, just keep forgetting. (might have a touch of ADHD on that > one...just can't sit still for that long...I don't watch many movies > either). > > So, can I use the kitchen sink sprayer on kinda high pressure with cold > water or similar to tank water temperature on the filter cartridges? > > Just to get the brown goo off the outside for the most part. Filter doesn't > do much with that on there. > > I will see if I can squeeze another cartridge into that filter, too. > It is a 5-15 gallon filter system on a 20 gallon tank (gotta get some > cartridges for the bigger system so I can switch them out...maybe put a used > smaller cartridge from the current system into the bigger one with a new > right sized cartridge so I don't lose all the good stuff in it?) > > I haven't seen any white on my fish that doesn't belong...until I started > adding some salt. Now the black molly has white on him...but I also noticed > I have a LOT more teeny tiny bubbles in the water...not sure why on that > one...so I don't know if it is bubbles sticking to the fish, or something to > worry about. > > anndrea > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > PWC's, while maybe annoying to fish, is nothing compared to the > stress they > > feel from having poor water quality (elevated ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, > > hormones, etc.). > > > > In your follow-up reply, you identified your algae eater as a CAE, > which > > technically should be called an IAE (Indian Algae Eater) since they > are not > > from China. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> > > They grow to over 10" and need a large tank. They are tolerant of > harder > > water so the salt should not bother them but maybe someone else > will chime > > in on this. I don't recall ever reading anything about not using > salt with > > CAE's. > > > > You should probably get a heater for the tank so it will maintain a > > consistent tropical temp of 78-82F depending on the average needs > of your > > fish. Especially in smaller tanks where the water can change > temperature > > rapidly depending on the room temp. I have a blog where I did an > experiment > > on a 10G with a simulated heater failure in the stuck off position > and then > > in the stuck on position to show how fast the water temperature > drops and/or > > rises. If the temp changes more than 1-2F per day, some fish will > start to > > show stress or succumb to bacterial issues. Water getting too > cool, too > > fast, is also a common cause of an Ich flare up. > > > > Have you taken either of the free online tutorials I have listed on > my blog > > "A to Z of fish keeping"? Since you are trying to learn, it would > be well > > advised for you to take these tutorials. > > > > Yes, if you over clean your filters, you could put your tank into a > > mini-cycle. While it's best to rinse out your filter media in > removed tank > > water or dechlored tap water, rinsing it with your tap water for a > short > > time period will usually not kill off all of the nitrifying > bacteria... if > > the tap water is around the same temp as the tank. If you used hot > water, > > that would kill off the bacteria quicker. While I don't recommend > > thoroughly washing off the filter media, especially for newer tanks, > > unplanted tanks or tanks with a single filter system, your > > chlorine/chloramine levels in tap water do not instantly kill > bacteria so > > some should survive. > > > > If your filter system will hold two cartridges, then it is a good > idea to > > have two running all the time so you can alternate thoroughly clean > one > > every couple of weeks. If you can't fit two cartridges, then get > some extra > > filter media (floss pad, sponge, bio-balls, etc.) and leave it in > the > > reservoir so it stays fully cycled at all times. This is also a > good way to > > have extra media always cycled if you need to set up a Q-tank or H- > tank or > > new tank. > > > > You should probably start keeping a log of your tanks, test > results, things > > done to the tanks, etc. When I first started, I use to keep a > spreadsheet > > on my computer to log all of my test results and events. Once you > have a > > tank set up for a while and learn a proper regimen for the tank, > then you > > can slack off on keeping all of the numbers or even doing tests but > for the > > first six months or more, it's a good idea to test regularly so you > will > > learn how fast the water quality is deteriorating, etc. > > > > Yes, you NEED an ammonia test kit.. especially as a newbie and with > new > > tanks. They do sell the API individual test kits and I think the > ammonia > > kit is around $5-7.00 at Petsmart.com and the local stores will > match the > > online price if you print the page. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Anndrea > > Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:34 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > > > > > Whenever something is wrong, the first thing you should do is a > PWC > > and > > > gravel vacuum since poor water quality is the leading cause of > fish > > > problems. Next, do a filter cleaning to get rid of any excess > > detritus (see > > > my blog article about doing proper filter maintenance and > > cleaning). > > > > I will do that later today :-) I wasn't sure if the partial watr > > change could stress them out and cause whatever it is to get worse. > > My mom's boyfriend says they look like they are doing exactly what > > bass do when they have a nest. But these are all live bearers, so I > > dunno what they are doing. > > > > > I would start by raising the salinity level depending on what > > the "tiny > > > algae eater" is. You need to find out the species and see if they > > are salt > > > tolerant as many catfish aren't... if it's a catfish. > > > > I don't think it is a catfish, I will have to google algae eaters > and > > try to find pictures to identify it. How much salt would you put in it > > if it is a 20 gallon tank? Oh, and the big gourami in the little tank > > is laying on the bottom a lot, too, but he is one of the fish with > > brown on him, so maybe he just doesn't feel good? That is the tank > > that is getting the Jungle Lifeguard stuff, can I still put > salt > > in it? How much for a 5 gallon? I have a box of aquarium salt, so I > > would be using that. Oh, and the two sick fish in the tiny tank (5 > > gallon) are getting a bigger tank tomorrow (10 gallon). > > > > > You should also increase the O2 levels in tank by increasing surface > > > agitation. > > > > Well, I have a long bubble stone and a small round bubble stone in the > > 20 gallon tank (the one with the fish on the bottom). I can > turn > > the air up, but it makes it look like the water is boiling, > > almost...because of so many bubbles...if that's ok, I'll crank it > up. > > > > > This article explains the uses and doses of salt. > > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > > > > Oops, disregard the above questions about salt, then :-) > > > > > 76-78F is not "hot" for tropical fish. It's on the low end of the > > scale for > > > them. What was the normal temperature of the tank prior to this > > heat spell? > > > > Mostly it hangs around 74...usually 76....I know that 78 isn't much of > > an increase, but it was higher than normal. > > > > > What might you have done that might have thrown your tank back > into > > a cycle? > > > > Well, last time I gravel vacuumed, I used the sprayer on the > kitchen > > sink to wash out the filter (it had brown goo on it, and my water > was > > cloudy, so I rinsed it and it cleared up overnight). Someone told > me > > I probably restarted the cycle because of rinsing the good bacteria > > out of the filter. Suggested putting two cartridges in the one > filter > > so I could alternate rinsing them. That way I always have good > > bacteris in one of them, at least. > > > > > You stated that your test results were OK. What were the numbers > > for > > > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you have? > > > > Uhm, I threw away the strip, but it was: > > ph 7.5 > > nitrite and nitrate I am not 100% sure...it was one of these two > > combinations: if the nitrite was 0, then the nitrate was about 40. > If > > the nitrate was 0, then the nitrite was about 1. > > > > The two tests are next to each other and I don't remember which one > > was pink (meaning more than 0). > > > > I'm thinking it was the nitrate that was pink (meaning 40) because > I > > had read somewhere that is a good level to have the tank at and > when > > I looked at the test, I wasn't worried. > > > > I don't have an ammonia test. Need to get that big master kit, but > > don't have the money at the moment (should soon, though). > > > > thanks a ton! > > anndrea > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 > 12:33 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26623	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Glo fish

Well you know them dang finches and ferrets grow up to me hideous man-eating killers... I heard they'll eat the faces off their owners while they sleep. ;-) The point I was making with that snip is that much of the Glofish engineering was for decorative purposes only... or rather frivolous as California legislation calls it. The experiments may have started out with a useful purpose but it ended up being for decorative purposes when dollar signs started adding up. Further, like I analogized earlier.. if this was being done to puppies to create some freakish glowing pink poodle that only Paris Hilton would like, people would be outraged.... and rightly so. Where do we draw the line? On a side note, I might not mind them cloning a 20-something Raquel Welch.. or two. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joesbirds@... Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Glo fish California — banned GloFish™ sales, noting that the GloFish™ researchers used genetic engineering on fish for frivolous purposes, and the risks were not all identified.40...") Yeah but California bans everything. They practically say the same thing about Java finches and Ferrets (these animals and others are considered threats to the state) Joey No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 2:36 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26624	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

OK. If the brown stuff comes right off, it's likely Diatoms (aka Brown Algae but it's not really an algae). That's not the same as the brown stuff on your fish though.. at least I've never heard of diatoms growing on fish. Diatoms grow a lot in new tanks due to the excess silicates in a new tank... from leaching from the silicone to decorations and even the substrate sometimes leaching. Just brush them off and vacuum them up out the gravel. They aren't harmful to your tank. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml If your carbon was fresh, it may have sucked up any of the ick guard medicine. You can just use salt and increased tank temperature to treat the ick per the links I gave you earlier. No need to buy any special meds. 1) Very little nitrifying bacteria would form on the filter pad just sitting in the tank. It's the volume of water flowing over the pad in the filter system that leads to the majority of the N-bacteria growing in the filter media... they grow where the food is easily found. 2) I think it's just Diatoms so I wouldn't worry about removing the things with the brown on them. Just brush it off or rinse it under your faucet. 3) Go to the Pandora's Disease page I gave you before and look at the pictures of anchor worms and things like that to see if that is the white stringy things. Without pictures of your fish, it's nearly impossible for us to try and guess what it may be. 4) This is why I explain how to do "surgery" on a filter cartridge (on my blog) to remove the carbon without removing the good cycled filter floss pads, etc. 5) I'm not sure if it filtered it all out or not. You would be best to do a PWC and start over or just use the salt/heat treatment plan. 6) God, your fish are coming down with every thing imaginable. Are you sure this isn't an early April Fool's thread? ;-) You need to compare your fish to the pictures on that Pandora's Disease page to see if it's mouth fungus or what ever else it might be. 7) You should not be trying to save any babies right now... IMO. You have enough other issues going on than trying to worry about raising fry. If they lay eggs, let nature take its course. If any survive, then worry about them... or not. The "fat" fish could be holding eggs or be pregnant or they could have internal bacterial issues causing them to swell up. 8) Many things can cause fish to act like that.... none of them good. With all the other things going on and the meds you are using, just hope for the best right now. You can't go crazy with meds or treatments as that can cause things to get worse. Just follow the treatment plans you've already started and do PWC's as directed and hope for the best at this point. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 12:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? Ok, I added the live plants just yesterday (the fish had been laying around on the bottom for a day or two before...so the plants are not the cause of the problem (at least not this problem...I have no idea if they'll cause additional problems, I am hhoping they will help somehow). Yes I am the one using Jungle Lifeguard...but in a different tank. This tank has had half the recommended amount of salt added, and I tossed in a couple tablets of Ick Guard when I saw the spots (yes they look a lot like salt on the black mollies and somewhat like salt on the swordtail...on the swordtail, if I get a real close look, it almost looks like some is "hanging" off his tail, but it is very very small). UNFORTUNATELY, I forgot to take the filter cartridge out when I added the Ick Guard, so I don't know if it did much good. Was thinking of doing a partial water change/gravel vacuum tomorrow. The mama fish...She is temporarily going into a 5 gallon tank to have the babies, then she will be moved back to the big tank while the babies grow big enough so they won't get eaten...and then I'll probably give them away anyway. Oh, I wasn't thinking of getting an air conditioner for the tank, I was just wondering if they made them because I would imagine someone living in a hot enough climate would need to find a way to keep their tank from overheating :-) Question#1: Would letting a filter sit in the water of the big tank get the good bacteria on it? (I can't fit two in my actual filter system...not enough room). Question#2: Do you think i should take away their hiding spot in the fake plant that floats in the tank, since it has started getting brown stuff on it? (I don't know if it is algae or not, have no idea what it is...comes off if I rub it with my fingers or a towel). Question#3: The one male swordtail that I see what on has white stringy looking things hanging off his tail (from the sword part of his tail and from the regular fin-looking part of his tail). Does Ich do that??? Question#4: Would it do ANY good to put the fizzy Ick Guard tablets in with the filter cartridge still in there? Question#5: If the answer to #4 is that it probably did NOT filter it all out...should I still do a partial water change tomorrow? Or should I wait? Question#6: My mama fish looks like her lips (do fish have lips?) might be turning white...is that a sign of Ich? Or something else? Will she pass it on to her babies? Question#7: I may also have 2 pregnant yellow Glofish in my one healthy tank. I only have one spare tank (the 5 gallon). I do not have one of those nets that floats in the water for the babies. Is there any way to combine the babies in the one tank? I worry because if the swordtail mama has anything wrng with her, can't it spread to the yellow Glofish mamas before having the babies? The the Glofish would take it back to my one healthy tank with them and I would no longer have ANY healthy fish...plus it could all get passed onto all the babies too, right? Question#8: Juvenile mollies and powder blue gourami are swimming almost straight up and down, tail pointed down...what would make them do that? Sorry for so many questions :-( I had no intention of breeding fish. From what I had been told (not by you, but by a lot of people) was that fish needed very specific conditions to breed. I guess that isn't always true, or I wouldn't be looking at at least one of my fish having babies (I am not SURE about the glofish being pregnant...but they are a lot fatter than they were, and the orange/pink glofish are still slim (maybe they are males?)). I believe the swordtail was pregnant when I got it, as she looked to be the fattest looking fish in the tank of the people I got them from. thanks for all the help, anndrea --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, a bacterial infection or anything causing them to "feel bad" will lead > them to laying on the bottom with fins clamped. It's one of the ways a fish > tells you they aren't feeling well. > > You mentioned adding live plants. Did you happen to add them shortly before > the fish started feeling bad? If you did, there is a chance you could have > introduced a new bacteria into their tank with the plants. While they may > have been able to handle the new bacteria with their own immune systems, > combined with the broad temperature swings, which can cause shock to a fish > and weaken their immune systems, this possible new bacteria could be the > cause of their maladies. Yes, ammonia spikes or dirty gravel could also > lead to immune system issues or increased levels of bacterial growth. > > While Melafix is helpful with external issues, it's not as good on internal > issues. Weren't you using Jungle Lifeguard or maybe I'm confusing this > thread with one of the many others? It's not good to mix and match drugs. > It's best to try one treatment plan and if that isn't working, then you do a > series of PWC's and run some fresh carbon to remove the meds and try > something else. Of course, with each treatment, a weakened fish could get > worse as their gills, kidneys and osmoregulatory systems have to work harder > to deal with the meds in the water. > > It's a good idea to give fish a few days of rest with just fresh water, > maybe with some salt, in between medical treatment changes. > > Those online tutorials are not movies. They are websites with a section on > each phase of fish keeping. In these days of YouTube, et al, maybe someone > should set up a video series but I like the idea of text that I can glance > over quicker to find what I need. Further, it's a proven fact that people > learn and retain much more from reading compared to watching a movie. I > know the Cliff's Notes always sunk in better than the rental video on books > I was supposed to read in high school, etc. LOL > > As to the momma fish. Yes, adding even a piece of filter media from a > cycled tank will go a long way towards fully cycling a new tank. For > example, say you have 10 fish in one tank and you have to move one to a > Q-tank. If you just move 1/10th (10%) of the filter media to the Q- tank, > both tanks should remain fully cycled. Even if you transfer too much to the > Q-tank, the older tank will likely not see much, if any, of a cycle issue > since the nitrifying bacteria are capable of doubling their colony size > every 24-48 hours. Now if you remove 90%, that would have more of an > effect. > > If you only have a single filter system on a tank, you shouldn't over-clean > the filter media. With multiple filter systems or filters with multiple > media layers, then cleaning one layer should not cause problems. For > example, in my canister filters, I have the water passing through a large > pore sponge first, then a smaller pore sponge, then several layers of filter > floss pads, then through a micro-filtration pad and finally through Purigen > for chemical filtration. I usually just rinse/squeeze the sponges out in > dechlored water or removed tank water. This removes any big detritus while > keeping all of the nitrifying bacteria alive on the sponge walls. Then I > may use the faucet, even with hot water on one or more of the remaining > floss pads to get them super clean but leave one or more of the other floss > pads only rinsed/squeezed in dechlored water so the nitrifying bacteria on > those pads are mostly unaffected. Using this system, I've never had a > mini-cycle.... even in my goldfish tank. I also have two filter systems on > the tank so when I might clean one of them, the other stays "dirty" but > fully cycled. I alternate cleaning them every two weeks. > > Now, as to the white specks on your molly. Does it look like salt sprinkled > on the fish? If so, you could be getting an Ich outbreak... which does seem > to happen with quick temperature drops or other stressors. Here's a short > article on diagnosing and treating Ich. http://fish.orbust.net/ich.html <http://fish.orbust.net/ich.html> > Here's a longer article with pictures. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php> > > Last but not least.. yes they do sell air conditioners for fish tanks.. > called chillers.. but they are very expensive. There are easier ways to > keep the tanks cooler during the hot summer months. One simple way is to > get a fan on a stand and point it at the surface of the water (remove the > top first) and increase the surface agitation and this will "cool" down the > water slowly. There's no need to take out your heaters during the summer > months. Just leave them set at their normal temps and they simply won't > turn on if the water stays warmer than the thermostat temperature... but at > least if things get cold in the house, they will kick on to keep the tanks > temperature from dropping too much or too quick. > > I think I answered all of your questions. If not, go through and number > them so I can make sure I get them all. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Anndrea > Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > > Ok, I have a heater in every tank, but when it started getting too hot in > the house and the tanks were getting up to like 84* I turned the heaters > down...it holds pretty steady around 76* but when the house heats up too > much, it goes up. I don't think they make air conditioners for tanks :-) > > As for my algae eaters, when they start to get bigger and I think they are > too big for my tank, I have a friend with a 90 gallon that they will go to, > if I haven't ended up getting a bigger tank by then (which I probably > won't...but my friend wants them when they get big). They are only a few > inches at most right now. On a side note, I am a little excited because I > got the alage eater in the 20 gallon tank (the one that has the > bottom-sitting, clamped-fin fish in it) to eat zucchini. I don't think I > have much algae being my tank is still pretty new (though there IS something > brown on the edges of some of the leaves on my one fake plant), so I am > happy to see him eating something and knowing in my head he isn't starving > :-) > > I talked to a guy at Petsmart (I know they are not gurus, and most don't > know much, but this guy actually seemed to know a lot, I think) and he said > the fish doing this "body wagging" thing they have been doing is called > "shimmying" and he thinks it is a bacterial infection (of course he says he > can't say much without actually seeing the fish, but it sounds bacterial > from what I have told him - same stuff I have told you). So, I am thinking > about getting some Melafix...can I add that AND salt to the water??? > > Also, could a bacterial infection cause them to lay on the bottom like they > are??? > > What could have caused a bacterial infection if that is what it is? I > haven't added any fish for a couple of weeks...but I don't know how long it > would take for it them to show signs if that fish brought something in with > him. Or could ammonia or dirty gravel cause it? > > Ohhhhh, maybe THAT was it...you said something about water temperature > changes causing the fish to succumb to bacterial issues...When the heater > was maintaining the tank at 76 and the weather got hot, and the temperature > spiked up to like 84, then I got it to drop to 76 again...that happened > pretty quickly...I didn't think water could change temperature so quickly in > so many gallons. > > If it is bacterial, will Melafix take care of it? > > If I have a pregnant fish (which I think I do), and I put her into a clean > clean tank, will the babies survive? The tank would be brand new and > cycling, but I can put the filter from my one tank that is having no > problems into the tank with the mama fish and babies, will that help > cycling??? > > Oh, and I added live plants to my 20 gallon bottom-sitting fins- clamped > fish tank. There is still a fake floating in the top to give them hiding > places, but I took out the rest of the fakes and replaced with live...all > the fakes have this brown stuff on them...I know there is some kind of brown > colored algae...maybe I should take the fake floating plant out, too? To get > all that brown stuff out of the tank??? > > I have had the best intentions and have been meaning to do the tutorials on > your site, just keep forgetting. (might have a touch of ADHD on that > one...just can't sit still for that long...I don't watch many movies > either). > > So, can I use the kitchen sink sprayer on kinda high pressure with cold > water or similar to tank water temperature on the filter cartridges? > > Just to get the brown goo off the outside for the most part. Filter doesn't > do much with that on there. > > I will see if I can squeeze another cartridge into that filter, too. > It is a 5-15 gallon filter system on a 20 gallon tank (gotta get some > cartridges for the bigger system so I can switch them out...maybe put a used > smaller cartridge from the current system into the bigger one with a new > right sized cartridge so I don't lose all the good stuff in it?) > > I haven't seen any white on my fish that doesn't belong...until I started > adding some salt. Now the black molly has white on him...but I also noticed > I have a LOT more teeny tiny bubbles in the water...not sure why on that > one...so I don't know if it is bubbles sticking to the fish, or something to > worry about. > > anndrea > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > PWC's, while maybe annoying to fish, is nothing compared to the > stress they > > feel from having poor water quality (elevated ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, > > hormones, etc.). > > > > In your follow-up reply, you identified your algae eater as a CAE, > which > > technically should be called an IAE (Indian Algae Eater) since they > are not > > from China. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> > > > They grow to over 10" and need a large tank. They are tolerant of > harder > > water so the salt should not bother them but maybe someone else > will chime > > in on this. I don't recall ever reading anything about not using > salt with > > CAE's. > > > > You should probably get a heater for the tank so it will maintain a > > consistent tropical temp of 78-82F depending on the average needs > of your > > fish. Especially in smaller tanks where the water can change > temperature > > rapidly depending on the room temp. I have a blog where I did an > experiment > > on a 10G with a simulated heater failure in the stuck off position > and then > > in the stuck on position to show how fast the water temperature > drops and/or > > rises. If the temp changes more than 1-2F per day, some fish will > start to > > show stress or succumb to bacterial issues. Water getting too > cool, too > > fast, is also a common cause of an Ich flare up. > > > > Have you taken either of the free online tutorials I have listed on > my blog > > "A to Z of fish keeping"? Since you are trying to learn, it would > be well > > advised for you to take these tutorials. > > > > Yes, if you over clean your filters, you could put your tank into a > > mini-cycle. While it's best to rinse out your filter media in > removed tank > > water or dechlored tap water, rinsing it with your tap water for a > short > > time period will usually not kill off all of the nitrifying > bacteria... if > > the tap water is around the same temp as the tank. If you used hot > water, > > that would kill off the bacteria quicker. While I don't recommend > > thoroughly washing off the filter media, especially for newer tanks, > > unplanted tanks or tanks with a single filter system, your > > chlorine/chloramine levels in tap water do not instantly kill > bacteria so > > some should survive. > > > > If your filter system will hold two cartridges, then it is a good > idea to > > have two running all the time so you can alternate thoroughly clean > one > > every couple of weeks. If you can't fit two cartridges, then get > some extra > > filter media (floss pad, sponge, bio-balls, etc.) and leave it in > the > > reservoir so it stays fully cycled at all times. This is also a > good way to > > have extra media always cycled if you need to set up a Q-tank or H- > tank or > > new tank. > > > > You should probably start keeping a log of your tanks, test > results, things > > done to the tanks, etc. When I first started, I use to keep a > spreadsheet > > on my computer to log all of my test results and events. Once you > have a > > tank set up for a while and learn a proper regimen for the tank, > then you > > can slack off on keeping all of the numbers or even doing tests but > for the > > first six months or more, it's a good idea to test regularly so you > will > > learn how fast the water quality is deteriorating, etc. > > > > Yes, you NEED an ammonia test kit.. especially as a newbie and with > new > > tanks. They do sell the API individual test kits and I think the > ammonia > > kit is around $5-7.00 at Petsmart.com and the local stores will > match the > > online price if you print the page. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Anndrea > > Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:34 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > > > > > Whenever something is wrong, the first thing you should do is a > PWC > > and > > > gravel vacuum since poor water quality is the leading cause of > fish > > > problems. Next, do a filter cleaning to get rid of any excess > > detritus (see > > > my blog article about doing proper filter maintenance and > > cleaning). > > > > I will do that later today :-) I wasn't sure if the partial watr > > change could stress them out and cause whatever it is to get worse. > > My mom's boyfriend says they look like they are doing exactly what > > bass do when they have a nest. But these are all live bearers, so I > > dunno what they are doing. > > > > > I would start by raising the salinity level depending on what > > the "tiny > > > algae eater" is. You need to find out the species and see if they > > are salt > > > tolerant as many catfish aren't... if it's a catfish. > > > > I don't think it is a catfish, I will have to google algae eaters > and > > try to find pictures to identify it. How much salt would you put in it > > if it is a 20 gallon tank? Oh, and the big gourami in the little tank > > is laying on the bottom a lot, too, but he is one of the fish with > > brown on him, so maybe he just doesn't feel good? That is the tank > > that is getting the Jungle Lifeguard stuff, can I still put > salt > > in it? How much for a 5 gallon? I have a box of aquarium salt, so I > > would be using that. Oh, and the two sick fish in the tiny tank (5 > > gallon) are getting a bigger tank tomorrow (10 gallon). > > > > > You should also increase the O2 levels in tank by increasing surface > > > agitation. > > > > Well, I have a long bubble stone and a small round bubble stone in the > > 20 gallon tank (the one with the fish on the bottom). I can > turn > > the air up, but it makes it look like the water is boiling, > > almost...because of so many bubbles...if that's ok, I'll crank it > up. > > > > > This article explains the uses and doses of salt. > > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > > > > > Oops, disregard the above questions about salt, then :-) > > > > > 76-78F is not "hot" for tropical fish. It's on the low end of the > > scale for > > > them. What was the normal temperature of the tank prior to this > > heat spell? > > > > Mostly it hangs around 74...usually 76....I know that 78 isn't much of > > an increase, but it was higher than normal. > > > > > What might you have done that might have thrown your tank back > into > > a cycle? > > > > Well, last time I gravel vacuumed, I used the sprayer on the > kitchen > > sink to wash out the filter (it had brown goo on it, and my water > was > > cloudy, so I rinsed it and it cleared up overnight). Someone told > me > > I probably restarted the cycle because of rinsing the good bacteria > > out of the filter. Suggested putting two cartridges in the one > filter > > so I could alternate rinsing them. That way I always have good > > bacteris in one of them, at least. > > > > > You stated that your test results were OK. What were the numbers > > for > > > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you have? > > > > Uhm, I threw away the strip, but it was: > > ph 7.5 > > nitrite and nitrate I am not 100% sure...it was one of these two > > combinations: if the nitrite was 0, then the nitrate was about 40. > If > > the nitrate was 0, then the nitrite was about 1. > > > > The two tests are next to each other and I don't remember which one > > was pink (meaning more than 0). > > > > I'm thinking it was the nitrate that was pink (meaning 40) because > I > > had read somewhere that is a good level to have the tank at and > when > > I looked at the test, I wasn't worried. > > > > I don't have an ammonia test. Need to get that big master kit, but > > don't have the money at the moment (should soon, though). > > > > thanks a ton! > > anndrea > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 2:36 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26625	From: William J. Scott	Date: 3/15/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

I think enough on this thread has been said. I thought this forum was to help out with problems, not the pros & cons of fish research at this level. While we all have our point of views, when it gets to be bickering, it does not make for good reading on an email list, Especially when we have newbies wondering what the heck it's all about. My 2 cents worth. Bill Scott in California -------Original Message------- From: abarker3wvuedu Date: 3/15/2008 1:41:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP The Glo-fish is not funded by any research money. Period. My research $ goes to study FOOD fish, and that alone, currently the Green Sunfish. The Glo-fish and all items involved in their breeding come from my own personal $$. Your tax dollars are NOT funding the Glo-fish. The distribution of the Danio was reviewed by many in the field-by professionals, not by the govt. alone, and was not found to be a release threat. Yes, any fish could escape after a hurricane, etc, but that brings up the ideas that we shouldn't have ANY non-natives in our tanks. I only pointed out I have a PhD when it appeared to you that I was a student...I've posted as a "regular Joe" until then...and only to help others understand that I'm not an irresponsible kid pawning fish on the web, that's ALL. To assume I was doing otherwise is rude. Yes, incorrect info is out and about in the educational world-- regardless of size or private/public status. Simply having the degree means nothing, but people who have advanced degrees work to get them. I've worked VERY hard to get it, and I work VERY VERY hard every day to ensure what I'm saying is correct. I back up my degree with continuing research, and I'm not embarassed by my degree. Are there idiots with PhDs? Sure...but if I were the typical high-brow professor, I wouldn't bother with a group of "aquarists" would I? Previously, I thought my torch to bear was helping the research community understand the aquarist...seems to me it's worse the other direction. It's this lack of understanding (of research and what aquarists already know) that causes the problems. Go read the original Danio paper if you'd like, might help you understand how and why these things are done. I never even hinted that my views should be taken as the Gospel. Research and development to make a better product and make it more profitable is why we can produce 1000s more pounds of milk and meat per unit of grain fed. Why is this important to the fish-keeper? Less fertilizer, less runoff, better aquatic habitats. Research and breeding/selection "experiments" to develop more marketable fish has produced 99.9% of the fish we all own. If we own "natives" they have been wild-caught, and there is at least some kind of impact to that collection and shipping. If you aren't OK with that...then go back to plain carp and minnows, or hatchery produced fish native to your area. Funny thing is...there are few hatchery-produced native fish anywhere...what would you keep if it weren't for fish captively bred or collected from the wild? How many of your fish are truly natural? A better, more decorative fish can boost sales and put food on the table for the people who breed, distribute, and market ornamentals. We may not eat them directly, but this is how folks make a living...even small-time "mom and pop" breeders. Honestly, I don't have time to argue back and forth on any forum...thought this might be a place to share with some aquarists what's going on from the research side of things...from now on I'll choose to spend my time on more positive pursuits. Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26626	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish

Thank You Steve ! Your post are a breath of fresh air. I love reading your post on any subject, I value your input. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glo-fish I don't know if the readings you did concerning California included the fact that all transgenetic organisms were banned by law prior to the arrival of the glo-fish. Yorktown Technologies petitioned for an exception to the ban. The frivolous purposes was but one of the frivolous arguments used to defeat the argument for an exemption. You have to remember that we are dealing with a political issue here, and it does not really matter if any of the arguments, pro or con, are based on any sort of fact at all. The truth of the matter is that the work was done to lead to a fish that would change in color to identify waters that were polluted with specific toxins. The creation of the glo-fish was merely a step in the process. Whether anything comes from this line of research is up in the air--it just may not be possible to do this in this manner. Meanwhile we do have the glo-fish in the hobby, and while it exists in fairly small numbers, at least around here, I am fairly certain it is here to stay. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glo-fish Remember that everything from that site is spun to make everything look hunky-dory. Do a Google Scholar search for independent and/or peer reviewed articles. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=glofish&hl=en&lr= You'll have to look through many links to find some that you can actually read as most of them require fee based subscriptions. Here's some where the abstract of the article is available for free. Even Amanda referred to these glofish as GMO's and I wasn't quite sure what GMO stood for until reading some of these articles. GMO = Genetically Modified Organism. http://jolt.law.harvard.edu/articles/pdf/v19/19HarvJLTech413.pdf (30 page Harvard Article)(A snip from this article states, "...At least one state — California — banned GloFish™ sales, noting that the GloFish™ researchers used genetic engineering on fish for frivolous purposes, and the risks were not all identified.40...") http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1299107 (another long article which has this snip, "...Opponents, even while acknowledging this argument, believe that GM fish nevertheless pose a serious threat to wildlife. If GM fish escaped from fish farms, they could further upset the oceans' delicate ecology, causing ecological disruption or species extinction. Transgenes that increase cold-, salt- or heat-tolerance could allow GM fish to expand into new territories. GM fish with higher disease resistance and better use of nutrients could outcompete wild relatives and change predator–prey relationships, and they could therefore occupy new ecological niches where wild species would usually not survive. Finally, by mating with wild fish, escaped GM fish could spread the transgene among the wild population, which could cause conflicting effects on mating success, viability in natural habitats and other fitness factors required for the species to survive. ...no matter which transgene is used, the main benefit would still be to the native species—provided we can keep our farmed fish from escaping—as any improvements in aquaculture would take the pressure away from ocean fisheries..." http://www.springerlink.com/content/547138tk464j6157/ http://www.springerlink.com/content/v8111648354828p6/ http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=740386 http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1439-0310.2006.01139.x http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v22/n1/full/nbt0104-1.html http://www.springerlink.com/content/6517m60l461342t5/ http://afs.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1577%2FT04-197.1&ct=1 http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v22/n1/full/nbt0104-11.html http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T94-4JBB31G-3&_user=4420034&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000063005&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=4420034&md5=0871cab93a5402f11214a511ffaeef92 Good reading! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glo-fish If anyone cares I have started reading about glo-fish on http://glofish.com <http://glofish.com> There has been many reasons for them to add that extra gene to these fish from polution to medical advances. So far it has been a very informative site. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 12:33 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26627	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab

I'm not sure why I AM going to bother explaining here <sigh> BUT 1. I have not released ANY data on what colors we are getting when we cross the different colors 2. The GMO gene has been reported to be dominant, some report that in its homozygous state, the GMO transgenic embryo doesn't develop, so the glo fish is actually a heterozygote. 3. It is NOT true that it will develop into a grayish-brown mutant, in fact, 1/4 of the fish are normal danios in all respects regardless of parentage. I can provide a review of genetics if anyone is curious... 4. All offspring pick up traits from both parents, regardless of species or GMO status Also, based on Amanda's cross breeding tests, the glofish > offspring pick up traits from both parents so eventually the red, green and > orange fish will cross breed into a grayish-brown mutant zebra danios... > that's presuming these fish would be let loose into public waterways to > "monitor" the water conditions. > > From the link you sent me, it seems I'm not the only one who leans

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26628	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Thank you Bill, you are so right. Lets get back to helping people what there problems and stop this Lenny. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: William J. Scott To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I think enough on this thread has been said. I thought this forum was to help out with problems, not the pros & cons of fish research at this level. While we all have our point of views, when it gets to be bickering, it does not make for good reading on an email list, Especially when we have newbies wondering what the heck it's all about. My 2 cents worth. Bill Scott in California -------Original Message------- From: abarker3wvuedu Date: 3/15/2008 1:41:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP The Glo-fish is not funded by any research money. Period. My research $ goes to study FOOD fish, and that alone, currently the Green Sunfish. The Glo-fish and all items involved in their breeding come from my own personal $$. Your tax dollars are NOT funding the Glo-fish. The distribution of the Danio was reviewed by many in the field-by professionals, not by the govt. alone, and was not found to be a release threat. Yes, any fish could escape after a hurricane, etc, but that brings up the ideas that we shouldn't have ANY non-natives in our tanks. I only pointed out I have a PhD when it appeared to you that I was a student...I've posted as a "regular Joe" until then...and only to help others understand that I'm not an irresponsible kid pawning fish on the web, that's ALL. To assume I was doing otherwise is rude. Yes, incorrect info is out and about in the educational world-- regardless of size or private/public status. Simply having the degree means nothing, but people who have advanced degrees work to get them. I've worked VERY hard to get it, and I work VERY VERY hard every day to ensure what I'm saying is correct. I back up my degree with continuing research, and I'm not embarassed by my degree. Are there idiots with PhDs? Sure...but if I were the typical high-brow professor, I wouldn't bother with a group of "aquarists" would I? Previously, I thought my torch to bear was helping the research community understand the aquarist...seems to me it's worse the other direction. It's this lack of understanding (of research and what aquarists already know) that causes the problems. Go read the original Danio paper if you'd like, might help you understand how and why these things are done. I never even hinted that my views should be taken as the Gospel. Research and development to make a better product and make it more profitable is why we can produce 1000s more pounds of milk and meat per unit of grain fed. Why is this important to the fish-keeper? Less fertilizer, less runoff, better aquatic habitats. Research and breeding/selection "experiments" to develop more marketable fish has produced 99.9% of the fish we all own. If we own "natives" they have been wild-caught, and there is at least some kind of impact to that collection and shipping. If you aren't OK with that...then go back to plain carp and minnows, or hatchery produced fish native to your area. Funny thing is...there are few hatchery-produced native fish anywhere...what would you keep if it weren't for fish captively bred or collected from the wild? How many of your fish are truly natural? A better, more decorative fish can boost sales and put food on the table for the people who breed, distribute, and market ornamentals. We may not eat them directly, but this is how folks make a living...even small-time "mom and pop" breeders. Honestly, I don't have time to argue back and forth on any forum...thought this might be a place to share with some aquarists what's going on from the research side of things...from now on I'll choose to spend my time on more positive pursuits. Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26629	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Amanda, I'm so glad you decided to post again. I find this very interesting. one of the articals I read said the gene's was from corals. I wonder if its actualy from the Zoothanallea (sp) algae, the algae that is symbiotic with invertebrates. Do you know Amanda? These corals also glow under actinic,o3 or 71K lighting. I have 3 month old tank raised Kuda seahorses (yellow gold in color because of selective breeding} and 6 month old Percula clowns (some miss-bared) , if you would be interested in tradeing for some. Do you only have red? Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: abarker3wvuedu To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 8:57 AM Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I'm not sure why I AM going to bother explaining here <sigh> BUT 1. I have not released ANY data on what colors we are getting when we cross the different colors 2. The GMO gene has been reported to be dominant, some report that in its homozygous state, the GMO transgenic embryo doesn't develop, so the glo fish is actually a heterozygote. 3. It is NOT true that it will develop into a grayish-brown mutant, in fact, 1/4 of the fish are normal danios in all respects regardless of parentage. I can provide a review of genetics if anyone is curious... 4. All offspring pick up traits from both parents, regardless of species or GMO status Also, based on Amanda's cross breeding tests, the glofish > offspring pick up traits from both parents so eventually the red, green and > orange fish will cross breed into a grayish-brown mutant zebra danios... > that's presuming these fish would be let loose into public waterways to > "monitor" the water conditions. > > From the link you sent me, it seems I'm not the only one who leans ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Amanda, In your very first post, you released "data" or at least some anecdotal information on the colors of the offspring. You said, "... Right now, it appears that we will have some light "baby" pink zebras and possibly some that will be bluish in color. We also hope to have some green/yellow and it appears that some are developing some bright gold patterns. I won't know the final color of this batch for a few more weeks, but you are welcome to suggest a trade at any time...." Based on that and common knowledge that offspring resemble their parents to some degree, I don't think it was a stretch for me to say that as these "pink", "bluish" and "gold" mutated offspring cross breed, the eventual color will end up a grayish-brown. That's the color one gets when they mix a bunch of other colors together. It's also what happens when a fancy Koi cross breeds with a goldfish... a greenish brown carp that doesn't resemble either of it's parents. You state in this reply that 1/4 of the offspring are "normal danios" but have you done genetic testing to see if these "normal danios" still carry a recessive glofish gene which may appear in subsequent generations? I know generation skipping genes and recessive genes becoming dominant in future generations happens with us humans. Well, it's either that or my mom lied about just giving a glass of water to the mailman. ;-) The funny thing about this nice debate is that in the past, I've been unopposed to glofish since they were genetically enhanced and not cross breeds. I'm still not opposed to them, per se, but your original post was about distributing experimental offspring and acquiring other fish for experimental purposes, including some hybrid cross breeds (bloody parrot) that many in the hobby frown upon. I stated my opposition to your plans on several fronts but mainly on your keeping your experimental offspring within the confines of your own labs so they do not get into the mainstream population affecting the future generations of pure bred species. While I'm not a geneticist, I do have a little biology background and know that in future years someone could think they are breeding pure zebra danios, only to have a percentage of the offspring come out with the glofish gene in them once the gene gets into the mainstream. Over time, the pure bred zebra danio could be lost forever according to some of the published scientific articles opposing GMO (genetically mutated organisms). We already have enough "mutt" fish in the industry, including the "fancy" fish from many species that are usually cross bred and inbred to develop the "fancy" status... without telling people that this cross breeding and inbreeding, while mutating the external appearance of the fish, also mutates the internal organs of the fish, resulting in fish that are much more prone to health problems, swim bladder issues, etc. It's not until unsuspecting buyers (namely moi) purchase these "fancy" fish, that they find out all of the health issues they have to deal with and the shortened lifespans of these fish. I know this first hand as the owner of some fancy goldfish that I purchased when I first got started, not knowing they were crossbred, inbred, mutated offspring of the original long bodied goldfish. While I am all for your enthusiastic experiments if there is knowledge to be gained, I simply do not want you distributing the offspring to the general population. Further, based on your zeal to trade the fish for other species, I'm presuming you would not have thought twice about trading the offspring from any experiments done with those fish. At least one of the fish mentioned in your wish list is already a frowned upon crossbred hybrid... the blood parrot. Other fish in your list are difficult to obtain fish that some believe are on the verge of being an endangered species ... the galaxy rasbora... according to Practical Fishkeeping Magazine. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=1060 "...[Update: February 6, 2006. This species is now under threat due to over-collecting. We advise all fishkeepers to avoid it. Please see this story for more information.]..." and http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=1197 "...Just six months since its discovery, the soon-to-be-described Galaxy rasbora, is facing the threat of being wiped out by the aquarium trade, a distributor has warned...." If you were attempting to acquire these endangered fish for the purposes of pure breeding them to maintain their pure status and get the fish out of the endangered list, that was not stated in your original post which was all about cross breeding since that seemed to peak the interest of your students. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of abarker3wvuedu Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 8:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I'm not sure why I AM going to bother explaining here <sigh> BUT 1. I have not released ANY data on what colors we are getting when we cross the different colors 2. The GMO gene has been reported to be dominant, some report that in its homozygous state, the GMO transgenic embryo doesn't develop, so the glo fish is actually a heterozygote. 3. It is NOT true that it will develop into a grayish-brown mutant, in fact, 1/4 of the fish are normal danios in all respects regardless of parentage. I can provide a review of genetics if anyone is curious... 4. All offspring pick up traits from both parents, regardless of species or GMO status Also, based on Amanda's cross breeding tests, the glofish > offspring pick up traits from both parents so eventually the red, green and > orange fish will cross breed into a grayish-brown mutant zebra danios... > that's presuming these fish would be let loose into public waterways to > "monitor" the water conditions. > > From the link you sent me, it seems I'm not the only one who leans No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 2:36 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26631	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

LOL.... "stop this Lenny" LOL God... I must me stopped... because I'm willing to speak my mind and enter into friendly debate on an oftentimes controversial subject about genetically mutated organisms, cross breeding, inbreeding, etc. Please stop me God! ;-) Geeeze... the last time I looked, the group can handle multiple, dozens, even hundreds of ongoing threads at the same time. What is the problem with being able to have debate on one topic in one thread while helping others on other topics in other threads? While enjoying, contributing and continuing this debate, I simultaneously have been helping people in several other threads. Hillary... ooops.. I meant Sissy... debate really can be done without getting all emotionally distraught! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP Thank you Bill, you are so right. Lets get back to helping people what there problems and stop this Lenny. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: William J. Scott To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP I think enough on this thread has been said. I thought this forum was to help out with problems, not the pros & cons of fish research at this level. While we all have our point of views, when it gets to be bickering, it does not make for good reading on an email list, Especially when we have newbies wondering what the heck it's all about. My 2 cents worth. Bill Scott in California -------Original Message------- From: abarker3wvuedu Date: 3/15/2008 1:41:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP The Glo-fish is not funded by any research money. Period. My research $ goes to study FOOD fish, and that alone, currently the Green Sunfish. The Glo-fish and all items involved in their breeding come from my own personal $$. Your tax dollars are NOT funding the Glo-fish. The distribution of the Danio was reviewed by many in the field-by professionals, not by the govt. alone, and was not found to be a release threat. Yes, any fish could escape after a hurricane, etc, but that brings up the ideas that we shouldn't have ANY non-natives in our tanks. I only pointed out I have a PhD when it appeared to you that I was a student...I've posted as a "regular Joe" until then...and only to help others understand that I'm not an irresponsible kid pawning fish on the web, that's ALL. To assume I was doing otherwise is rude. Yes, incorrect info is out and about in the educational world-- regardless of size or private/public status. Simply having the degree means nothing, but people who have advanced degrees work to get them. I've worked VERY hard to get it, and I work VERY VERY hard every day to ensure what I'm saying is correct. I back up my degree with continuing research, and I'm not embarassed by my degree. Are there idiots with PhDs? Sure...but if I were the typical high-brow professor, I wouldn't bother with a group of "aquarists" would I? Previously, I thought my torch to bear was helping the research community understand the aquarist...seems to me it's worse the other direction. It's this lack of understanding (of research and what aquarists already know) that causes the problems. Go read the original Danio paper if you'd like, might help you understand how and why these things are done. I never even hinted that my views should be taken as the Gospel. Research and development to make a better product and make it more profitable is why we can produce 1000s more pounds of milk and meat per unit of grain fed. Why is this important to the fish-keeper? Less fertilizer, less runoff, better aquatic habitats. Research and breeding/selection "experiments" to develop more marketable fish has produced 99.9% of the fish we all own. If we own "natives" they have been wild-caught, and there is at least some kind of impact to that collection and shipping. If you aren't OK with that...then go back to plain carp and minnows, or hatchery produced fish native to your area. Funny thing is...there are few hatchery-produced native fish anywhere...what would you keep if it weren't for fish captively bred or collected from the wild? How many of your fish are truly natural? A better, more decorative fish can boost sales and put food on the table for the people who breed, distribute, and market ornamentals. We may not eat them directly, but this is how folks make a living...even small-time "mom and pop" breeders. Honestly, I don't have time to argue back and forth on any forum...thought this might be a place to share with some aquarists what's going on from the research side of things...from now on I'll choose to spend my time on more positive pursuits. Amanda No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 2:36 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26632	From: Cilene Magnine	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: ? about my reef tank ?

newbie to this group... i have a 50 breeder tank set up as a reef tank.. been running for over a year now... what i have in my tank... 1 yellow tail damsel 1 two spot goby 1 yellow watchman goby 1 scooter blenny 1 flower rock anemone 2 types of leather corals several hermit crabs several snails a couple of questions.... my 1st question... i have these red worms in my crushed coral substrate, not bristol worms, i got some of those too.. but whta are these red worms...? they are very thin.... my 2nd question.... i have these light brown colored things that look like anemones... how do i get rid of them..? i look forward to learning from you all here... thank you in advance for any help.... -- Cilene in WI [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26633	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: ? about my reef tank ?

The worms have allot of tentacles? if so they may be spaghetti worms. If no and look more like a brissel worm, they prob fire worms. The anemone sound like Aptisia anemones and spread like wild fire. Try a butterfly fish or Heniochus, they eat them and should pose no harm on your leathers, but could pick on your Flower Anemone. Also peppermint shrimp eat them. You can remove them on the rock and run boiling hot water on them,I use a syringe,and try not to kill anything else on the rock. What ever you do, don't tear them or squish them , every small peace will become an anemone again and make it worse. I have tired Joe's juice, did not work for me. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Cilene Magnine To: Aquatic Life Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 11:17 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] ? about my reef tank ? newbie to this group... i have a 50 breeder tank set up as a reef tank.. been running for over a year now... what i have in my tank... 1 yellow tail damsel 1 two spot goby 1 yellow watchman goby 1 scooter blenny 1 flower rock anemone 2 types of leather corals several hermit crabs several snails a couple of questions.... my 1st question... i have these red worms in my crushed coral substrate, not bristol worms, i got some of those too.. but whta are these red worms...? they are very thin.... my 2nd question.... i have these light brown colored things that look like anemones... how do i get rid of them..? i look forward to learning from you all here... thank you in advance for any help.... -- Cilene in WI [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26634	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

I would just like to mention, that this is a common mistake made by many newcomers in the hobby. Unless the thermostat part of your heater is faulty, it should turn off at your preset heat setting after your aquarium water has reached and gone above that temperature. If you have the heater(s) set at 76 o, and the house (and tank water) heats up to 84 o from the outside or room temperature, there should be no need to turn the heaters down. They should turn off automatically as the tank water reaches 76 o. If you see the heaters remaining on up to 84 o, by noting that the neon pilot indicator light remains on, then either you did not have the heater set correctly in the first place or there is something wrong with the thermostat in that heater. If your heaters do not have pilot indicators to let you know when they're on or off, it just may be that either they were not set right to begin with or they may be too large (in Watts) for your tank. But, its very unlikely that ALL of the thermostats are faulty, although I don't see where you mention how many tanks and heaters you're referring to. If the tank temperature continues to rise above your settings of 76 o when your room is 84 o, its not the result of the heaters, but rather the direct result of the ambient temperature causing the water to heat up excessively. Turning the thermostat down in that case will not result in the water cooling off. What very often MAY happen though, is that you forget the thermostat was turned down and when the first incident of colder weather comes, your heater is set far too low to prevent the fish from being chilled. BTW, as already mentioned, there are "air conditioners" for tanks in the form of devices called chillers. You do not want one of these however as they're mainly meant for hobbyists maintaining cold-water fish and those who have mini-reef aquariums with their high intensity lighting requirements (and subsequent heat) necessitating the use of one of these units to keep the tank temperature in a "liveable" zone for the fish. Each tank needs its own separate unit -- and each unit throws out heat into the room. Best method is to use a room air conditioner in your case, just to get the room down to 78 o or so. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Anndrea" <anndreae@...> wrote: > > Ok, I have a heater in every tank, but when it started getting too > hot in the house and the tanks were getting up to like 84* I turned > the heaters down...it holds pretty steady around 76* but when the > house heats up too much, it goes up. I don't think they make air > conditioners for tanks :-) > > As for my algae eaters, when they start to get bigger and I think > they are too big for my tank, I have a friend with a 90 gallon that > they will go to, if I haven't ended up getting a bigger tank by then > (which I probably won't...but my friend wants them when they get > big). They are only a few inches at most right now. On a side note, I > am a little excited because I got the alage eater in the 20 gallon > tank (the one that has the bottom-sitting, clamped-fin fish in it) to > eat zucchini. I don't think I have much algae being my tank is still > pretty new (though there IS something brown on the edges of some of > the leaves on my one fake plant), so I am happy to see him eating > something and knowing in my head he isn't starving :-) > > I talked to a guy at Petsmart (I know they are not gurus, and most > don't know much, but this guy actually seemed to know a lot, I think) > and he said the fish doing this "body wagging" thing they have been > doing is called "shimmying" and he thinks it is a bacterial infection > (of course he says he can't say much without actually seeing the > fish, but it sounds bacterial from what I have told him - same stuff > I have told you). So, I am thinking about getting some Melafix...can > I add that AND salt to the water??? > > Also, could a bacterial infection cause them to lay on the bottom > like they are??? > > What could have caused a bacterial infection if that is what it is? I > haven't added any fish for a couple of weeks...but I don't know how > long it would take for it them to show signs if that fish brought > something in with him. Or could ammonia or dirty gravel cause it? > > Ohhhhh, maybe THAT was it...you said something about water > temperature changes causing the fish to succumb to bacterial > issues...When the heater was maintaining the tank at 76 and the > weather got hot, and the temperature spiked up to like 84, then I got > it to drop to 76 again...that happened pretty quickly...I didn't > think water could change temperature so quickly in so many gallons. > > If it is bacterial, will Melafix take care of it? > > If I have a pregnant fish (which I think I do), and I put her into a > clean clean tank, will the babies survive? The tank would be brand > new and cycling, but I can put the filter from my one tank that is > having no problems into the tank with the mama fish and babies, will > that help cycling??? > > Oh, and I added live plants to my 20 gallon bottom-sitting fins- > clamped fish tank. There is still a fake floating in the top to give > them hiding places, but I took out the rest of the fakes and replaced > with live...all the fakes have this brown stuff on them...I know > there is some kind of brown colored algae...maybe I should take the > fake floating plant out, too? To get all that brown stuff out of the > tank??? > > I have had the best intentions and have been meaning to do the > tutorials on your site, just keep forgetting. (might have a touch of > ADHD on that one...just can't sit still for that long...I don't watch > many movies either). > > So, can I use the kitchen sink sprayer on kinda high pressure with > cold water or similar to tank water temperature on the filter > cartridges? > > Just to get the brown goo off the outside for the most part. Filter > doesn't do much with that on there. > > I will see if I can squeeze another cartridge into that filter, too. > It is a 5-15 gallon filter system on a 20 gallon tank (gotta get some > cartridges for the bigger system so I can switch them out...maybe put > a used smaller cartridge from the current system into the bigger one > with a new right sized cartridge so I don't lose all the good stuff > in it?) > > I haven't seen any white on my fish that doesn't belong...until I > started adding some salt. Now the black molly has white on him...but > I also noticed I have a LOT more teeny tiny bubbles in the > water...not sure why on that one...so I don't know if it is bubbles > sticking to the fish, or something to worry about. > > anndrea > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > PWC's, while maybe annoying to fish, is nothing compared to the > stress they > > feel from having poor water quality (elevated ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, > > hormones, etc.). > > > > In your follow-up reply, you identified your algae eater as a CAE, > which > > technically should be called an IAE (Indian Algae Eater) since they > are not > > from China. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html > > They grow to over 10" and need a large tank. They are tolerant of > harder > > water so the salt should not bother them but maybe someone else > will chime > > in on this. I don't recall ever reading anything about not using > salt with > > CAE's. > > > > You should probably get a heater for the tank so it will maintain a > > consistent tropical temp of 78-82F depending on the average needs > of your > > fish. Especially in smaller tanks where the water can change > temperature > > rapidly depending on the room temp. I have a blog where I did an > experiment > > on a 10G with a simulated heater failure in the stuck off position > and then > > in the stuck on position to show how fast the water temperature > drops and/or > > rises. If the temp changes more than 1-2F per day, some fish will > start to > > show stress or succumb to bacterial issues. Water getting too > cool, too > > fast, is also a common cause of an Ich flare up. > > > > Have you taken either of the free online tutorials I have listed on > my blog > > "A to Z of fish keeping"? Since you are trying to learn, it would > be well > > advised for you to take these tutorials. > > > > Yes, if you over clean your filters, you could put your tank into a > > mini-cycle. While it's best to rinse out your filter media in > removed tank > > water or dechlored tap water, rinsing it with your tap water for a > short > > time period will usually not kill off all of the nitrifying > bacteria... if > > the tap water is around the same temp as the tank. If you used hot > water, > > that would kill off the bacteria quicker. While I don't recommend > > thoroughly washing off the filter media, especially for newer tanks, > > unplanted tanks or tanks with a single filter system, your > > chlorine/chloramine levels in tap water do not instantly kill > bacteria so > > some should survive. > > > > If your filter system will hold two cartridges, then it is a good > idea to > > have two running all the time so you can alternate thoroughly clean > one > > every couple of weeks. If you can't fit two cartridges, then get > some extra > > filter media (floss pad, sponge, bio-balls, etc.) and leave it in > the > > reservoir so it stays fully cycled at all times. This is also a > good way to > > have extra media always cycled if you need to set up a Q-tank or H- > tank or > > new tank. > > > > You should probably start keeping a log of your tanks, test > results, things > > done to the tanks, etc. When I first started, I use to keep a > spreadsheet > > on my computer to log all of my test results and events. Once you > have a > > tank set up for a while and learn a proper regimen for the tank, > then you > > can slack off on keeping all of the numbers or even doing tests but > for the > > first six months or more, it's a good idea to test regularly so you > will > > learn how fast the water quality is deteriorating, etc. > > > > Yes, you NEED an ammonia test kit.. especially as a newbie and with > new > > tanks. They do sell the API individual test kits and I think the > ammonia > > kit is around $5-7.00 at Petsmart.com and the local stores will > match the > > online price if you print the page. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Anndrea > > Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:34 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > > > > > Whenever something is wrong, the first thing you should do is a > PWC > > and > > > gravel vacuum since poor water quality is the leading cause of > fish > > > problems. Next, do a filter cleaning to get rid of any excess > > detritus (see > > > my blog article about doing proper filter maintenance and > > cleaning). > > > > I will do that later today :-) I wasn't sure if the partial watr > > change could stress them out and cause whatever it is to get worse. > > My mom's boyfriend says they look like they are doing exactly what > > bass do when they have a nest. But these are all live bearers, so I > > dunno what they are doing. > > > > > I would start by raising the salinity level depending on what > > the "tiny > > > algae eater" is. You need to find out the species and see if they > > are salt > > > tolerant as many catfish aren't... if it's a catfish. > > > > I don't think it is a catfish, I will have to google algae eaters > and > > try to find pictures to identify it. How much salt would you put in > > it if it is a 20 gallon tank? Oh, and the big gourami in the little > > tank is laying on the bottom a lot, too, but he is one of the fish > > with brown on him, so maybe he just doesn't feel good? That is the > > tank that is getting the Jungle Lifeguard stuff, can I still put > salt > > in it? How much for a 5 gallon? I have a box of aquarium salt, so I > > would be using that. Oh, and the two sick fish in the tiny tank (5 > > gallon) are getting a bigger tank tomorrow (10 gallon). > > > > > You should also increase the O2 levels in tank by > > > increasing surface agitation. > > > > Well, I have a long bubble stone and a small round bubble stone in > > the 20 gallon tank (the one with the fish on the bottom). I can > turn > > the air up, but it makes it look like the water is boiling, > > almost...because of so many bubbles...if that's ok, I'll crank it > up. > > > > > This article explains the uses and doses of > > > salt. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > > > Oops, disregard the above questions about salt, then :-) > > > > > 76-78F is not "hot" for tropical fish. It's on the low end of the > > scale for > > > them. What was the normal temperature of the tank prior to this > > heat spell? > > > > Mostly it hangs around 74...usually 76....I know that 78 isn't much > > of an increase, but it was higher than normal. > > > > > What might you have done that might have thrown your tank back > into > > a cycle? > > > > Well, last time I gravel vacuumed, I used the sprayer on the > kitchen > > sink to wash out the filter (it had brown goo on it, and my water > was > > cloudy, so I rinsed it and it cleared up overnight). Someone told > me > > I probably restarted the cycle because of rinsing the good bacteria > > out of the filter. Suggested putting two cartridges in the one > filter > > so I could alternate rinsing them. That way I always have good > > bacteris in one of them, at least. > > > > > You stated that your test results were OK. What were the numbers > > for > > > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you have? > > > > Uhm, I threw away the strip, but it was: > > ph 7.5 > > nitrite and nitrate I am not 100% sure...it was one of these two > > combinations: if the nitrite was 0, then the nitrate was about 40. > If > > the nitrate was 0, then the nitrite was about 1. > > > > The two tests are next to each other and I don't remember which one > > was pink (meaning more than 0). > > > > I'm thinking it was the nitrate that was pink (meaning 40) because > I > > had read somewhere that is a good level to have the tank at and > when > > I looked at the test, I wasn't worried. > > > > I don't have an ammonia test. Need to get that big master kit, but > > don't have the money at the moment (should soon, though). > > > > thanks a ton! > > anndrea > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: > 3/14/2008 > > 12:33 PM > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26635	From: Cilene Magnine	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: ? about my reef tank ?

Sissy... yes they have lots of tenatcles... how do i get rid of the spagetti worms then...? thanks... -- Cilene in WI [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26636	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: ? about my reef tank ?

No need to get rid of them, they are harmless. Actually they are good to have in your system, great for eating bits of food that fall to the bottom, and they will eat just about anything dead as well.They can grow up to 12 inches long with feeding tentacles reaching 3 feet long. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Cilene Magnine To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? about my reef tank ? Sissy... yes they have lots of tenatcles... how do i get rid of the spagetti worms then...? thanks... -- Cilene in WI [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26637	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Glo-fish babies and research

I'll get the full article from the original publication if anyone is interested..it's OK to distribute it as long as it's for educational purposes only, or I could offer a summary if that'd be better? I don't think I should post it, but I can snail mail it out to anyone who wants to see it. I can get the others that you guys don't have access too. Also, anyone can write the author's school with a "reprint request" and they'll mail it to you free of charge. I'll look to see what the actual gene came from, but one was from a coral, and another from an anemone. Gene "injection" which is what they do isn't new, it's been done in many different kinds of animals, and in this instance, it's controlled by a muscle-specific gene "promotor" that turns on the gene in the muscle tissue--it's the actual muscle that's colored, not the scales! I can't be sure, but it is likely (we'll know more later) that the different colors reside in different areas of the DNA, so that MIGHT be why I'm seeing a pink in my red X green crosses. Again, we have a ton more fish to examine before I can tell you for sure. What I CAN tell you now is that it is not "sketchy" evidence that they are sterile, as has been reported by some in the hobby. They are breeding and behaving as normal danio fry in all respects, although I do not have any of the orange at this time. I can also say that it seems the greens are a bit smaller and a bit less hardy than the reds that we have. I don't have enough of the greens to say this holds true for all of the greens, but it appears so at this point. They are "glowing" or showing good color under standard, ordinary aquarium flourescents, and they even show great color with ordinary room lighting as well. They are working well for experiments with the students because they are showing color as little as day 5 post hatch! Right now we have red (to me looks bright pink), baby pink, some that MIGHT end up soft blue, and a few "in-betweens" of a darker baby pink. We should have more colors later, as the students continue with the work. I'd love to work with some Kudas...I had dwarf SHs years ago, and we were just cycling a tank for them. The Kudas would be a MORE than welcome addition!!! What size fry do you prefer? they are munching on baby brine, microworms, and walter worms, although it seems they prefer the baby brine right now. I can give you cultures of the micros and walters. Funny, because the betta babies seem to prefer the micros and walter worms, but will take down a brine shrimp too. FWIW, we've lost almost none of the fry, but I can tell you I start the egg-layers other than Bettas on cultured paramecium, so that might have made a difference. Overall, the students are MUCH more into this than into the mutant fruit flies they must count and count and count : )...I'd never let them know it, but I HATED counting flies myself! Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Sissy Sathre" <ssathre@...> wrote: > > Amanda, I'm so glad you decided to post again. I find this very interesting. one of the articals I read said the gene's was from corals. I wonder if its actualy from the Zoothanallea (sp) algae, the algae that is symbiotic with invertebrates. Do you know Amanda? These corals also glow under actinic,o3 or 71K lighting. > > I have 3 month old tank raised Kuda seahorses (yellow gold in color because of selective breeding} and 6 month old Percula clowns (some miss-bared) , if you would be interested in tradeing for some. Do you only have red? > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysissy.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: abarker3wvuedu > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 8:57 AM > Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding-- babies available to SWAP > > > I'm not sure why I AM going to bother explaining here <sigh> BUT > 1. I have not released ANY data on what colors we are getting when > we cross the different colors > 2. The GMO gene has been reported to be dominant, some report that > in its homozygous state, the GMO transgenic embryo doesn't develop, > so the glo fish is actually a heterozygote. > 3. It is NOT true that it will develop into a grayish-brown mutant, > in fact, 1/4 of the fish are normal danios in all respects regardless > of parentage. I can provide a review of genetics if anyone is > curious... > 4. All offspring pick up traits from both parents, regardless of > species or GMO status > > Also, based on Amanda's cross breeding tests, the glofish > > offspring pick up traits from both parents so eventually the red, > green and > > orange fish will cross breed into a grayish-brown mutant zebra > danios... > > that's presuming these fish would be let loose into public > waterways to > > "monitor" the water conditions. > > > > From the link you sent me, it seems I'm not the only one who leans > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26638	From: Cilene Magnine	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: ? about my reef tank ?

Sissy... OMG... i hope they do not get that big in my tank... it is only 3 ft wide... lol... -- Cilene in WI [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26639	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

See my replies below your questions: > > In your very first post, you released "data" or at least some anecdotal information on the colors of the offspring. I did not provide numbers or any "data" other than the general nature of what we are seeing from our initial crosses. > > Based on that and common knowledge that offspring resemble their parents to > some degree, I don't think it was a stretch for me to say that as these > "pink", "bluish" and "gold" mutated offspring cross breed, the eventual > color will end up a grayish-brown. The Transgene is a dominant gene, according to the literature at this point. And, if it holds true that the trait is dominant-lethal, then any fish that gets 2 copies of the genes do not develop at all. If the danio appears normal (no color), then the gene isn't present at all, and the fish is "wild type" normal in all respects, and the gene will not show up in subsequent generations. This would not be the case if the gene was recessive, but it is a dominant trait. The colors don't really "mix" as the trait isn't co- dominant--at least from what has been reported to date...I can say that it is behaving like a dominant trait, which is what they would want in developing such an organism. > recessive glofish gene which may appear in subsequent generations? I know > generation skipping genes and recessive genes becoming dominant in future > generations happens with us humans. A recessive gene can't become dominant in subsequent generations...recessive is always recessive, and the only way it shows up later is when an individual receives two recessive genes, which is what happens in many human diseases. I'm still not opposed to them, per se, but your original post was > about distributing experimental offspring and acquiring other fish for > experimental purposes, including some hybrid cross breeds (bloody parrot) > that many in the hobby frown upon. We are only crossing the danios to examine inheritance of the color in the Glos and to document what happens when different GMO glos are crossed with one another. While I'm not a geneticist, I do have a > little biology background and know that in future years someone could think > they are breeding pure zebra danios, only to have a percentage of the > offspring come out with the glofish gene in them once the gene gets into the > mainstream. Because the trait is dominant, this cannot happen. Even the 1/4 of normal-looking danios from glowing parents are 100% normal danios, with no GMO gene. Over time, the pure bred zebra danio could be lost forever > according to some of the published scientific articles opposing GMO > (genetically mutated organisms). GMO = Genetically modified, not genetically mutated. A mutation is a naturally occuring phenomenon, and 99.9999% of the time, results in death of the individual. Mutations have been important in the development of strains, but, usually we see that a human has somewhat protected the "new" one from predation, etc. Think of how a fancy- tail guppy could compete in the wild as compared to the "feeders" which are wild type. > We already have enough "mutt" fish in the industry, including the "fancy" > fish from many species that are usually cross bred and inbred to develop the > "fancy" status... without telling people that this cross breeding and > inbreeding, while mutating the external appearance of the fish, also mutates > the internal organs of the fish, resulting in fish that are much more prone > to health problems, swim bladder issues, etc. Cross-breeding usually produces an organism with increased fitness (called heterosis), and this is why many cultured species are a cross between two breeds/strains/lines. Cross-breeding maximizes the amount of heterozygosity of the animal, resulting in a superior performer. Crossbreeding different species is of even greater benefit in maximizing heterosis. Keep in mind that "species" are determined by man, and may not represent the actual genetic lineage of the organism. Many species are now being reclassified based on new DNA evidence. It's not until unsuspecting > buyers (namely moi) purchase these "fancy" fish, that they find out all of > the health issues they have to deal with and the shortened lifespans of > these fish. This is not always the case. I'm sure that problems can arise, but line-breeding and cross-breeding and inbreeding do not cause problems unless you are increasing the number of recessive, deleterious alleles. Inbreeding is breeding genetically related individuals, and this can result in the opposite effect of cross breeding. Not always, but it can result in "inbreeding depression" I simply do not want you distributing the offspring to the general > population. Further, based on your zeal to trade the fish for other > species, I'm presuming you would not have thought twice about trading the offspring from any experiments done with those fish. The "experiments" at hand would be to examine specific things for each species...the glofish is an odd one because it is easy to breed & track the genetics of the color. > > At least one of the fish mentioned in your wish list is already a frowned > upon crossbred hybrid... the blood parrot. The blood parrot would be evaluated to examine the reported sterility and fertility of the fish. I feel that this is an important biological question, esp when more and more reports are suggesting these fish are fertile. So, does it differ between individuals? We don't know, and this would be very interesting to find out. Some hate the parrot, some love it, but it has proven to be a very hardy and welcome addition to many tanks...and has remained a part of the hobby for those reasons. (supports the notion of heterosis in crossbred animals) Fishes such as the galaxy rasbora, etc, would only be bred in their pure form without any plans to be a Dr. Frankenstein. I FIRMLY believe that captive propagation will save the habitat. Same thing was reported for the "new" cardinal fish (marine fish) added to the hobby years ago. Captive propagation of this fish has made it more widely available, cheaper, healthier, and with less impact on the wild stocks. > If you were attempting to acquire these endangered fish for the purposes of > pure breeding them to maintain their pure status and get the fish out of the > endangered list, that was not stated in your original post which was all > about cross breeding since that seemed to peak the interest of your > students. If the galaxy or others are listed as endangered, two schools of thought 1. breed them if you have such ability 2. hope we can stop importation, which isn't likely Cross-breeding of the colors of one species of Danio is the only cross-breeding experiment I mentioned. Cross-breeding isn't the only thing to spark someone's interest, but it sure beats counting a million fruit flies. Adding a variety of species that we can captively propagate will show the students the wonder of the aquatic world, both GMO, cross-bred, and natural... We have specific reasons for wanting to evaluate these species, and my Dr. Frankenstein nature only applies to the already GMO danio, and with that fish alone.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26640	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: ? about my reef tank ?

LOL, I have never seen any over 4-5 " on the aquarium. They look like a earthworm, but you dont seen the actual body, just the tintacles. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Cilene Magnine To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? about my reef tank ? Sissy... OMG... i hope they do not get that big in my tank... it is only 3 ft wide... lol... -- Cilene in WI [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26641	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Amanda, lets go privite with our conversation on how to exchange our fish. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: abarker3wvuedu To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 2:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP See my replies below your questions: > > In your very first post, you released "data" or at least some anecdotal information on the colors of the offspring. I did not provide numbers or any "data" other than the general nature of what we are seeing from our initial crosses. > > Based on that and common knowledge that offspring resemble their parents to > some degree, I don't think it was a stretch for me to say that as these > "pink", "bluish" and "gold" mutated offspring cross breed, the eventual > color will end up a grayish-brown. The Transgene is a dominant gene, according to the literature at this point. And, if it holds true that the trait is dominant-lethal, then any fish that gets 2 copies of the genes do not develop at all. If the danio appears normal (no color), then the gene isn't present at all, and the fish is "wild type" normal in all respects, and the gene will not show up in subsequent generations. This would not be the case if the gene was recessive, but it is a dominant trait. The colors don't really "mix" as the trait isn't co- dominant--at least from what has been reported to date...I can say that it is behaving like a dominant trait, which is what they would want in developing such an organism. > recessive glofish gene which may appear in subsequent generations? I know > generation skipping genes and recessive genes becoming dominant in future > generations happens with us humans. A recessive gene can't become dominant in subsequent generations...recessive is always recessive, and the only way it shows up later is when an individual receives two recessive genes, which is what happens in many human diseases. I'm still not opposed to them, per se, but your original post was > about distributing experimental offspring and acquiring other fish for > experimental purposes, including some hybrid cross breeds (bloody parrot) > that many in the hobby frown upon. We are only crossing the danios to examine inheritance of the color in the Glos and to document what happens when different GMO glos are crossed with one another. While I'm not a geneticist, I do have a > little biology background and know that in future years someone could think > they are breeding pure zebra danios, only to have a percentage of the > offspring come out with the glofish gene in them once the gene gets into the > mainstream. Because the trait is dominant, this cannot happen. Even the 1/4 of normal-looking danios from glowing parents are 100% normal danios, with no GMO gene. Over time, the pure bred zebra danio could be lost forever > according to some of the published scientific articles opposing GMO > (genetically mutated organisms). GMO = Genetically modified, not genetically mutated. A mutation is a naturally occuring phenomenon, and 99.9999% of the time, results in death of the individual. Mutations have been important in the development of strains, but, usually we see that a human has somewhat protected the "new" one from predation, etc. Think of how a fancy- tail guppy could compete in the wild as compared to the "feeders" which are wild type. > We already have enough "mutt" fish in the industry, including the "fancy" > fish from many species that are usually cross bred and inbred to develop the > "fancy" status... without telling people that this cross breeding and > inbreeding, while mutating the external appearance of the fish, also mutates > the internal organs of the fish, resulting in fish that are much more prone > to health problems, swim bladder issues, etc. Cross-breeding usually produces an organism with increased fitness (called heterosis), and this is why many cultured species are a cross between two breeds/strains/lines. Cross-breeding maximizes the amount of heterozygosity of the animal, resulting in a superior performer. Crossbreeding different species is of even greater benefit in maximizing heterosis. Keep in mind that "species" are determined by man, and may not represent the actual genetic lineage of the organism. Many species are now being reclassified based on new DNA evidence. It's not until unsuspecting > buyers (namely moi) purchase these "fancy" fish, that they find out all of > the health issues they have to deal with and the shortened lifespans of > these fish. This is not always the case. I'm sure that problems can arise, but line-breeding and cross-breeding and inbreeding do not cause problems unless you are increasing the number of recessive, deleterious alleles. Inbreeding is breeding genetically related individuals, and this can result in the opposite effect of cross breeding. Not always, but it can result in "inbreeding depression" I simply do not want you distributing the offspring to the general > population. Further, based on your zeal to trade the fish for other > species, I'm presuming you would not have thought twice about trading the offspring from any experiments done with those fish. The "experiments" at hand would be to examine specific things for each species...the glofish is an odd one because it is easy to breed & track the genetics of the color. > > At least one of the fish mentioned in your wish list is already a frowned > upon crossbred hybrid... the blood parrot. The blood parrot would be evaluated to examine the reported sterility and fertility of the fish. I feel that this is an important biological question, esp when more and more reports are suggesting these fish are fertile. So, does it differ between individuals? We don't know, and this would be very interesting to find out. Some hate the parrot, some love it, but it has proven to be a very hardy and welcome addition to many tanks...and has remained a part of the hobby for those reasons. (supports the notion of heterosis in crossbred animals) Fishes such as the galaxy rasbora, etc, would only be bred in their pure form without any plans to be a Dr. Frankenstein. I FIRMLY believe that captive propagation will save the habitat. Same thing was reported for the "new" cardinal fish (marine fish) added to the hobby years ago. Captive propagation of this fish has made it more widely available, cheaper, healthier, and with less impact on the wild stocks. > If you were attempting to acquire these endangered fish for the purposes of > pure breeding them to maintain their pure status and get the fish out of the > endangered list, that was not stated in your original post which was all > about cross breeding since that seemed to peak the interest of your > students. If the galaxy or others are listed as endangered, two schools of thought 1. breed them if you have such ability 2. hope we can stop importation, which isn't likely Cross-breeding of the colors of one species of Danio is the only cross-breeding experiment I mentioned. Cross-breeding isn't the only thing to spark someone's interest, but it sure beats counting a million fruit flies. Adding a variety of species that we can captively propagate will show the students the wonder of the aquatic world, both GMO, cross-bred, and natural... We have specific reasons for wanting to evaluate these species, and my Dr. Frankenstein nature only applies to the already GMO danio, and with that fish alone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26642	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

In a message dated 3/16/2008 11:20:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Yeah that is funny Lenny, especially since GMOs, cross breeding and cloning is going on even as we speak. It's not going to stop just because Lenny want's it to. No doubt there's human experimentation going on too - it's just too exciting - so possible and do-able. I also applaud Amanda for keeping her cool and sticking up for her work. There are some very territorial males in this group. It's not easy to state an opposing/conflicting or new opinion without citations, but she was very clear about her intent. I find all the posts here helpful and informative = what a vast storehouse of knowledge, but this thread got a little personal (I think) by calling her Hillary. Guess the next step would have been the B word. Just an opinion - not anything personal - <little g> Barbara LOL.... "stop this Lenny" LOL God... I must me stopped... because I'm willing to speak my mind and enter into friendly debate on an oftentimes controversial subject about genetically mutated organisms, cross breeding, inbreeding, etc. Please stop me God! ;-) Geeeze... the last time I looked, the group can handle multiple, dozens, even hundreds of ongoing threads at the same time. What is the problem with being able to have debate on one topic in one thread while helping others on other topics in other threads? While enjoying, contributing and continuing this debate, I simultaneously have been helping people in several other threads. Hillary... ooops.. I meant Sissy... debate really can be done without getting all emotionally distraught! ;-) **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26643	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Hi Barbara, LOL. I didn't call Amanda "Hillary". She's not the one trying to "stop this Lenny" (guy). The person who said that and made me seriously start ROTFLMAO was Sissy. (hmmm.... what a suiting name... JUST KIDDING!!!!) LOL It just seemed she was getting so distraught over Amanda and my friendly debate when she called for putting a stop to me with her comment "Thank you Bill, you are so right. Lets get back to helping people what there problems and stop this Lenny." The fact that she said "Thank you Bill..." is what made me think of Hillary. If you replaced "Lenny" with "Republican", it would sound just like something Hillary would say! Of course, Bill's reply would have been, "Just a minute honey... let me finish this cigar." LOL It also made me think of a debate I once participated in where the opposing party was losing so badly they hollered "SHUT UP!!" and stormed off the stage.... yeah.. like that worked with me... I finished making my points! ;-) There's never a reason to get into a heated argument or resort to name calling during a friendly debate with someone I hardly know... now my ex-wife.. that's a different story and "Hillary" would have been much too nice a word to use! :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 7:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP In a message dated 3/16/2008 11:20:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Yeah that is funny Lenny, especially since GMOs, cross breeding and cloning is going on even as we speak. It's not going to stop just because Lenny want's it to. No doubt there's human experimentation going on too - it's just too exciting - so possible and do-able. I also applaud Amanda for keeping her cool and sticking up for her work. There are some very territorial males in this group. It's not easy to state an opposing/conflicting or new opinion without citations, but she was very clear about her intent. I find all the posts here helpful and informative = what a vast storehouse of knowledge, but this thread got a little personal (I think) by calling her Hillary. Guess the next step would have been the B word. Just an opinion - not anything personal - <little g> Barbara LOL.... "stop this Lenny" LOL God... I must me stopped... because I'm willing to speak my mind and enter into friendly debate on an oftentimes controversial subject about genetically mutated organisms, cross breeding, inbreeding, etc. Please stop me God! ;-) Geeeze... the last time I looked, the group can handle multiple, dozens, even hundreds of ongoing threads at the same time. What is the problem with being able to have debate on one topic in one thread while helping others on other topics in other threads? While enjoying, contributing and continuing this debate, I simultaneously have been helping people in several other threads. Hillary... ooops.. I meant Sissy... debate really can be done without getting all emotionally distraught! ;-) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 2:36 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26644	From: Jenn	Date: 3/16/2008
Subject: Sea Horse picture

I haven't been able to check the site for a while but when I logged in today I got a suprise. The picture of sea horses is one that I took at the pet store I work at. I thought it was a good (especially for a cell phone camera). I'm flattered that it's up there! jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26645	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: lost email : (

I've lost an email from a lady who was also a horse person...I think she's in the south (Alabama???) can you please re-email me? your email has gotten lost in my cyber world : ( Amanda

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26646	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: lost email : (

Please ignore this request...I FINALLY found it : ) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "abarker3wvuedu" <amandabstewart@...> wrote: > > I've lost an email from a lady who was also a horse person...I think > she's in the south (Alabama???) > can you please re-email me? your email has gotten lost in my cyber > world : ( > > Amanda >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26647	From: Russ Foley	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Guppie Lost Colour and Other Guppies have little dots on tail fins

Hi there, We have some Guppies some pregnant and some not pregnant. Just had about 40 babies between two of them. One two died before giving birth. Two gave birth ok. One male that was red went pink and now is nearly white lost all colour in tail fin which went transparent. If we let him out of isolation then the tiger barbs come to attack so they know it is ill. The guppies have small little dots on their tail fins and I can not rememeber that from before. Have done a PH test which was 7 - 7.2 Have done an amonia, nitrite and nitrate test and the water is fine. Any Ideas Russ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26648	From: hangsomeboy2002	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Anyone in Melbourne know where they sell crayfish?

Hello, I'm fairly new here :) I'm currently looking for a place where they sell blue crayfish around Melbourne. By any chance any of u guys know? Please tell me if you do :) Thank a ton

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26649	From: ED	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone in Melbourne know where they sell crayfish?

Try Google I found these for Melbourne Florida. Nahacky's Aquarium - maps.google.com 1613 S Harbor City Blvd, Melbourne - (321) 723-5340 2 reviews, directions, and more » Pets Mart - www.petsmart.com 1800 Evans Rd, Melbourne - (321) 722-3190 Directions and more » West Melbourne Aquatics Inc - wmaquatics.com 2456 Minton Rd, Melbourne - (321) 676-4200 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hangsomeboy2002" <hangsomeboy2002@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > I'm fairly new here :) I'm currently looking for a place where they > sell blue crayfish around Melbourne. By any chance any of u guys know? > > Please tell me if you do :) > > Thank a ton >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26650	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone in Melbourne know where they sell crayfish?

Was it Melbourne, Florida or Australia? In either case, Google should find some stores but it's always nice to get a personal referral to a known healthy store also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 11:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Anyone in Melbourne know where they sell crayfish? Try Google I found these for Melbourne Florida. Nahacky's Aquarium - maps.google.com 1613 S Harbor City Blvd, Melbourne - (321) 723-5340 2 reviews, directions, and more » Pets Mart - www.petsmart.com 1800 Evans Rd, Melbourne - (321) 722-3190 Directions and more » West Melbourne Aquatics Inc - wmaquatics.com 2456 Minton Rd, Melbourne - (321) 676-4200 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "hangsomeboy2002" <hangsomeboy2002@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > I'm fairly new here :) I'm currently looking for a place where they > sell blue crayfish around Melbourne. By any chance any of u guys know? > > Please tell me if you do :) > > Thank a ton > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26651	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: Brown on my fish?

> OK. If the brown stuff comes right off, it's likely Diatoms (aka Brown > Algae but it's not really an algae). That's not the same as the brown stuff > on your fish though.. at least I've never heard of diatoms growing on fish. I know, this is my fault, the brown fish is in a different tank than the brown on my fake plant. An update on the brown fish...if you look at a good side pic of a long finned black skirt tetra, from about half way between the lips and where the tail starts has turned dark brown. The top and bottom fins look very dark brown, to possibly black. His tail is still white/clear, but all fins are frayed very badly. The other fish in that tank seems to be doing better in some ways (more active and more interested in food - eating good, now). I did notice he only has two spots, but I googled images of blue gouramis and I guess sometimes that is normal. So he is doing well and going into the new bigger tank tonight. Not sure I should keep the skirt tetra with him if the skirt tetras fins continue looking so bad. > Diatoms grow a lot in new tanks due to the excess silicates in a new tank... > from leaching from the silicone to decorations and even the substrate > sometimes leaching. This tank was set up a few weeks ago, but was not new when I got it. I'm assuming when you say something about silicone, you mean the stuff in the corners of the tankt o make it hold water...so I don't think that would apply to a used tank? > If your carbon was fresh, it may have sucked up any of the ick guard > medicine. Well, the Ick Guard turned the tank blueish colored for a few hours, but I'm sure it was supposed to last longer. The carbon filter was rinsed a couple of times, and has been used in this tank only, and for a few weeks. So the carbon wasn't NEW, and hadn't been rinsed in a while, so I think maybe the medicine helped some? > You can just use salt and increased tank temperature to treat the > ick per the links I gave you earlier. No need to buy any special meds. Ok, I was a little gung ho about the salt. I followed the dosing directions on the box (1 rounded tbsp per 5 gallons), but it said nothing about adding it to removed tank water, so I put a rounded tbsp in the tank at a time, a good 6-12 hours apart over a couple of days. Hope that was ok. As for the temp, I am not sure how quickly that should happen (the site you sent me to said about 85* was good for getting id of Ick - for like 10+ days). So I have been turning up the heater some every day. We are getting ready for the strip thermometer to say 82. So tomorrow I should be getting up to about 85. Will my fish all tolerate that temperature? (They are mollies, swordtails, platys, a powder blue dwarf gourami, and a chinese algae eater) > 1) Very little nitrifying bacteria would form on the filter pad just > sitting in the tank. It's the volume of water flowing over the pad in the > filter system that leads to the majority of the N-bacteria growing in the > filter media... they grow where the food is easily found. I was able to squeeze about 90% of a new filter cartridge into the filter of my one tank of fish that aren't having any problems. I thought it would be better to push it in there than in a tank that is having issues. So that should be enough to get the new tank going when it gets here, right? > 2) I think it's just Diatoms so I wouldn't worry about removing the things > with the brown on them. Just brush it off or rinse it under your faucet. I will get on that in a little while (today)...thanks :-) > 3) Go to the Pandora's Disease page I gave you before and look at the > pictures of anchor worms and things like that to see if that is the white > stringy things. Without pictures of your fish, it's nearly impossible for > us to try and guess what it may be. The one swordtail that had those on him, those things are gone, and he lost about half his tail (from the tip). He is not eating, is hiding constantly, and is COVERED in white stuff...at the tips of the two fins that hang side by side on his underside, it looks like he has mini cotton balls on the tips of those fins. The rest of the white looks kind of fuzzy and the edges of his tail are getting kinda frayed and have white on the edges. I think I might lose him :-( > 5) I'm not sure if it filtered it all out or not. You would be best to do > a PWC and start over or just use the salt/heat treatment plan. I didn't do the PWC because I was in the process of adding the salt, and would have really confused myself, and probably oversalted the tank. But I have all the salt in there now, and am raising the temperature...should I do the PWC now? Then add the prorated amount of salt to the water I put in? > 6) God, your fish are coming down with every thing imaginable. Sure feels that way :-( I thought things were going really well. I had a few weeks of things going smoothly...I wonder if it was the weather change and me not knowing better and turning my heater down...maybe the temp fluctuated a lot for a few days and made the fish more succeptible to EVERYTHING. > Are you > sure this isn't an early April Fool's thread? ;-) Oh, how I WISH this was a joke...LOL. > You need to compare your > fish to the pictures on that Pandora's Disease page to see if it's mouth > fungus or what ever else it might be. I couldn't figure out which page you were referrring to by Pandora's Disease page... > 7) You should not be trying to save any babies right now... IMO. You have > enough other issues going on than trying to worry about raising fry. Too late. She had her babies last night!!!...found them this morning. My mom is too excited to leave them in there to be eaten or die. > If > they lay eggs, let nature take its course. If any survive, then worry about > them... or not. The "fat" fish could be holding eggs or be pregnant or they > could have internal bacterial issues causing them to swell up. Well, I guess she was preg, cuz there's babies! LOL. How exciting! I was pretty sure she was preg because she had what I have seen some people call the "gravid spot". > 8) Many things can cause fish to act like that.... none of them good. With > all the other things going on and the meds you are using, just hope for the > best right now. You can't go crazy with meds or treatments as that can > cause things to get worse. Just follow the treatment plans you've already > started and do PWC's as directed and hope for the best at this point. Thanks, I will stick with the heat and salt for now. Not sure it will work if it is something besides Ich, but I can hope. Well, I gotta run and get the floating net thingy for the babies and a filter for the tank... anndrea > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Anndrea > Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 12:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > > Ok, I added the live plants just yesterday (the fish had been laying around > on the bottom for a day or two before...so the plants are not the cause of > the problem (at least not this problem...I have no idea if they'll cause > additional problems, I am hhoping they will help somehow). > > Yes I am the one using Jungle Lifeguard...but in a different tank. > This tank has had half the recommended amount of salt added, and I tossed in > a couple tablets of Ick Guard when I saw the spots (yes they look a lot like > salt on the black mollies and somewhat like salt on the swordtail...on the > swordtail, if I get a real close look, it almost looks like some is > "hanging" off his tail, but it is very very small). > > UNFORTUNATELY, I forgot to take the filter cartridge out when I added the > Ick Guard, so I don't know if it did much good. > > Was thinking of doing a partial water change/gravel vacuum tomorrow. > > The mama fish...She is temporarily going into a 5 gallon tank to have the > babies, then she will be moved back to the big tank while the babies grow > big enough so they won't get eaten...and then I'll probably give them away > anyway. > > Oh, I wasn't thinking of getting an air conditioner for the tank, I was just > wondering if they made them because I would imagine someone living in a hot > enough climate would need to find a way to keep their tank from overheating > :-) > > Question#1: Would letting a filter sit in the water of the big tank get the > good bacteria on it? (I can't fit two in my actual filter system...not > enough room). > > Question#2: Do you think i should take away their hiding spot in the fake > plant that floats in the tank, since it has started getting brown stuff on > it? (I don't know if it is algae or not, have no idea what it is...comes off > if I rub it with my fingers or a towel). > > Question#3: The one male swordtail that I see what on has white stringy > looking things hanging off his tail (from the sword part of his tail and > from the regular fin-looking part of his tail). Does Ich do that??? > > Question#4: Would it do ANY good to put the fizzy Ick Guard tablets in with > the filter cartridge still in there? > > Question#5: If the answer to #4 is that it probably did NOT filter it all > out...should I still do a partial water change tomorrow? Or should I wait? > > Question#6: My mama fish looks like her lips (do fish have lips?) might be > turning white...is that a sign of Ich? Or something else? > Will she pass it on to her babies? > > Question#7: I may also have 2 pregnant yellow Glofish in my one healthy > tank. I only have one spare tank (the 5 gallon). I do not have one of those > nets that floats in the water for the babies. Is there any way to combine > the babies in the one tank? I worry because if the swordtail mama has > anything wrng with her, can't it spread to the yellow Glofish mamas before > having the babies? The the Glofish would take it back to my one healthy tank > with them and I would no longer have ANY healthy fish...plus it could all > get passed onto all the babies too, right? > > Question#8: Juvenile mollies and powder blue gourami are swimming almost > straight up and down, tail pointed down...what would make them do that? > > Sorry for so many questions :-( > > I had no intention of breeding fish. From what I had been told (not by you, > but by a lot of people) was that fish needed very specific conditions to > breed. I guess that isn't always true, or I wouldn't be looking at at least > one of my fish having babies (I am not SURE about the glofish being > pregnant...but they are a lot fatter than they were, and the orange/pink > glofish are still slim (maybe they are males?)). > > I believe the swordtail was pregnant when I got it, as she looked to be the > fattest looking fish in the tank of the people I got them from. > > thanks for all the help, > anndrea > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Yes, a bacterial infection or anything causing them to "feel bad" > will lead > > them to laying on the bottom with fins clamped. It's one of the > ways a fish > > tells you they aren't feeling well. > > > > You mentioned adding live plants. Did you happen to add them > shortly before > > the fish started feeling bad? If you did, there is a chance you > could have > > introduced a new bacteria into their tank with the plants. While > they may > > have been able to handle the new bacteria with their own immune > systems, > > combined with the broad temperature swings, which can cause shock > to a fish > > and weaken their immune systems, this possible new bacteria could > be the > > cause of their maladies. Yes, ammonia spikes or dirty gravel could > also > > lead to immune system issues or increased levels of bacterial > growth. > > > > While Melafix is helpful with external issues, it's not as good on > internal > > issues. Weren't you using Jungle Lifeguard or maybe I'm confusing > this > > thread with one of the many others? It's not good to mix and match > drugs. > > It's best to try one treatment plan and if that isn't working, then > you do a > > series of PWC's and run some fresh carbon to remove the meds and try > > something else. Of course, with each treatment, a weakened fish > could get > > worse as their gills, kidneys and osmoregulatory systems have to > work harder > > to deal with the meds in the water. > > > > It's a good idea to give fish a few days of rest with just fresh > water, > > maybe with some salt, in between medical treatment changes. > > > > Those online tutorials are not movies. They are websites with a > section on > > each phase of fish keeping. In these days of YouTube, et al, maybe > someone > > should set up a video series but I like the idea of text that I can > glance > > over quicker to find what I need. Further, it's a proven fact that > people > > learn and retain much more from reading compared to watching a > movie. I > > know the Cliff's Notes always sunk in better than the rental video > on books > > I was supposed to read in high school, etc. LOL > > > > As to the momma fish. Yes, adding even a piece of filter media > from a > > cycled tank will go a long way towards fully cycling a new tank. > For > > example, say you have 10 fish in one tank and you have to move one > to a > > Q-tank. If you just move 1/10th (10%) of the filter media to the Q- > tank, > > both tanks should remain fully cycled. Even if you transfer too > much to the > > Q-tank, the older tank will likely not see much, if any, of a cycle > issue > > since the nitrifying bacteria are capable of doubling their colony > size > > every 24-48 hours. Now if you remove 90%, that would have more of > an > > effect. > > > > If you only have a single filter system on a tank, you shouldn't > over-clean > > the filter media. With multiple filter systems or filters with > multiple > > media layers, then cleaning one layer should not cause problems. > For > > example, in my canister filters, I have the water passing through a > large > > pore sponge first, then a smaller pore sponge, then several layers > of filter > > floss pads, then through a micro-filtration pad and finally through > Purigen > > for chemical filtration. I usually just rinse/squeeze the sponges > out in > > dechlored water or removed tank water. This removes any big > detritus while > > keeping all of the nitrifying bacteria alive on the sponge walls. > Then I > > may use the faucet, even with hot water on one or more of the > remaining > > floss pads to get them super clean but leave one or more of the > other floss > > pads only rinsed/squeezed in dechlored water so the nitrifying > bacteria on > > those pads are mostly unaffected. Using this system, I've never > had a > > mini-cycle.... even in my goldfish tank. I also have two filter > systems on > > the tank so when I might clean one of them, the other stays "dirty" > but > > fully cycled. I alternate cleaning them every two weeks. > > > > Now, as to the white specks on your molly. Does it look like salt > sprinkled > > on the fish? If so, you could be getting an Ich outbreak... which > does seem > > to happen with quick temperature drops or other stressors. Here's > a short > > article on diagnosing and treating Ich. > http://fish.orbust.net/ich.html <http://fish.orbust.net/ich.html> > > Here's a longer article with pictures. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php> > > > > Last but not least.. yes they do sell air conditioners for fish > tanks.. > > called chillers.. but they are very expensive. There are easier > ways to > > keep the tanks cooler during the hot summer months. One simple way > is to > > get a fan on a stand and point it at the surface of the water > (remove the > > top first) and increase the surface agitation and this will "cool" > down the > > water slowly. There's no need to take out your heaters during the > summer > > months. Just leave them set at their normal temps and they simply > won't > > turn on if the water stays warmer than the thermostat > temperature... but at > > least if things get cold in the house, they will kick on to keep > the tanks > > temperature from dropping too much or too quick. > > > > I think I answered all of your questions. If not, go through and > number > > them so I can make sure I get them all. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Anndrea > > Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > > > > Ok, I have a heater in every tank, but when it started getting too > hot in > > the house and the tanks were getting up to like 84* I turned the > heaters > > down...it holds pretty steady around 76* but when the house heats > up too > > much, it goes up. I don't think they make air conditioners for > tanks :-) > > > > As for my algae eaters, when they start to get bigger and I think > they are > > too big for my tank, I have a friend with a 90 gallon that they > will go to, > > if I haven't ended up getting a bigger tank by then (which I > probably > > won't...but my friend wants them when they get big). They are only > a few > > inches at most right now. On a side note, I am a little excited > because I > > got the alage eater in the 20 gallon tank (the one that has the > > bottom-sitting, clamped-fin fish in it) to eat zucchini. I don't > think I > > have much algae being my tank is still pretty new (though there IS > something > > brown on the edges of some of the leaves on my one fake plant), so > I am > > happy to see him eating something and knowing in my head he isn't > starving > > :-) > > > > I talked to a guy at Petsmart (I know they are not gurus, and most > don't > > know much, but this guy actually seemed to know a lot, I think) and > he said > > the fish doing this "body wagging" thing they have been doing is > called > > "shimmying" and he thinks it is a bacterial infection (of course he > says he > > can't say much without actually seeing the fish, but it sounds > bacterial > > from what I have told him - same stuff I have told you). So, I am > thinking > > about getting some Melafix...can I add that AND salt to the water??? > > > > Also, could a bacterial infection cause them to lay on the bottom > like they > > are??? > > > > What could have caused a bacterial infection if that is what it is? > I > > haven't added any fish for a couple of weeks...but I don't know how > long it > > would take for it them to show signs if that fish brought something > in with > > him. Or could ammonia or dirty gravel cause it? > > > > Ohhhhh, maybe THAT was it...you said something about water > temperature > > changes causing the fish to succumb to bacterial issues...When the > heater > > was maintaining the tank at 76 and the weather got hot, and the > temperature > > spiked up to like 84, then I got it to drop to 76 again...that > happened > > pretty quickly...I didn't think water could change temperature so > quickly in > > so many gallons. > > > > If it is bacterial, will Melafix take care of it? > > > > If I have a pregnant fish (which I think I do), and I put her into > a clean > > clean tank, will the babies survive? The tank would be brand new and > > cycling, but I can put the filter from my one tank that is having no > > problems into the tank with the mama fish and babies, will that help > > cycling??? > > > > Oh, and I added live plants to my 20 gallon bottom-sitting fins- > clamped > > fish tank. There is still a fake floating in the top to give them > hiding > > places, but I took out the rest of the fakes and replaced with > live...all > > the fakes have this brown stuff on them...I know there is some kind > of brown > > colored algae...maybe I should take the fake floating plant out, > too? To get > > all that brown stuff out of the tank??? > > > > I have had the best intentions and have been meaning to do the > tutorials on > > your site, just keep forgetting. (might have a touch of ADHD on that > > one...just can't sit still for that long...I don't watch many movies > > either). > > > > So, can I use the kitchen sink sprayer on kinda high pressure with > cold > > water or similar to tank water temperature on the filter cartridges? > > > > Just to get the brown goo off the outside for the most part. Filter > doesn't > > do much with that on there. > > > > I will see if I can squeeze another cartridge into that filter, > too. > > It is a 5-15 gallon filter system on a 20 gallon tank (gotta get > some > > cartridges for the bigger system so I can switch them out...maybe > put a used > > smaller cartridge from the current system into the bigger one with > a new > > right sized cartridge so I don't lose all the good stuff in it?) > > > > I haven't seen any white on my fish that doesn't belong...until I > started > > adding some salt. Now the black molly has white on him...but I also > noticed > > I have a LOT more teeny tiny bubbles in the water...not sure why on > that > > one...so I don't know if it is bubbles sticking to the fish, or > something to > > worry about. > > > > anndrea > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > PWC's, while maybe annoying to fish, is nothing compared to the > > stress they > > > feel from having poor water quality (elevated ammonia, nitrite, > > nitrate, > > > hormones, etc.). > > > > > > In your follow-up reply, you identified your algae eater as a CAE, > > which > > > technically should be called an IAE (Indian Algae Eater) since > they > > are not > > > from China. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> > > > > They grow to over 10" and need a large tank. They are tolerant of > > harder > > > water so the salt should not bother them but maybe someone else > > will chime > > > in on this. I don't recall ever reading anything about not using > > salt with > > > CAE's. > > > > > > You should probably get a heater for the tank so it will maintain > a > > > consistent tropical temp of 78-82F depending on the average needs > > of your > > > fish. Especially in smaller tanks where the water can change > > temperature > > > rapidly depending on the room temp. I have a blog where I did an > > experiment > > > on a 10G with a simulated heater failure in the stuck off position > > and then > > > in the stuck on position to show how fast the water temperature > > drops and/or > > > rises. If the temp changes more than 1-2F per day, some fish will > > start to > > > show stress or succumb to bacterial issues. Water getting too > > cool, too > > > fast, is also a common cause of an Ich flare up. > > > > > > Have you taken either of the free online tutorials I have listed > on > > my blog > > > "A to Z of fish keeping"? Since you are trying to learn, it would > > be well > > > advised for you to take these tutorials. > > > > > > Yes, if you over clean your filters, you could put your tank into > a > > > mini-cycle. While it's best to rinse out your filter media in > > removed tank > > > water or dechlored tap water, rinsing it with your tap water for a > > short > > > time period will usually not kill off all of the nitrifying > > bacteria... if > > > the tap water is around the same temp as the tank. If you used hot > > water, > > > that would kill off the bacteria quicker. While I don't recommend > > > thoroughly washing off the filter media, especially for newer > tanks, > > > unplanted tanks or tanks with a single filter system, your > > > chlorine/chloramine levels in tap water do not instantly kill > > bacteria so > > > some should survive. > > > > > > If your filter system will hold two cartridges, then it is a good > > idea to > > > have two running all the time so you can alternate thoroughly > clean > > one > > > every couple of weeks. If you can't fit two cartridges, then get > > some extra > > > filter media (floss pad, sponge, bio-balls, etc.) and leave it in > > the > > > reservoir so it stays fully cycled at all times. This is also a > > good way to > > > have extra media always cycled if you need to set up a Q-tank or > H- > > tank or > > > new tank. > > > > > > You should probably start keeping a log of your tanks, test > > results, things > > > done to the tanks, etc. When I first started, I use to keep a > > spreadsheet > > > on my computer to log all of my test results and events. Once you > > have a > > > tank set up for a while and learn a proper regimen for the tank, > > then you > > > can slack off on keeping all of the numbers or even doing tests > but > > for the > > > first six months or more, it's a good idea to test regularly so > you > > will > > > learn how fast the water quality is deteriorating, etc. > > > > > > Yes, you NEED an ammonia test kit.. especially as a newbie and > with > > new > > > tanks. They do sell the API individual test kits and I think the > > ammonia > > > kit is around $5-7.00 at Petsmart.com and the local stores will > > match the > > > online price if you print the page. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Anndrea > > > Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:34 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown on my fish? > > > > > > > Whenever something is wrong, the first thing you should do is a > > PWC > > > and > > > > gravel vacuum since poor water quality is the leading cause of > > fish > > > > problems. Next, do a filter cleaning to get rid of any excess > > > detritus (see > > > > my blog article about doing proper filter maintenance and > > > cleaning). > > > > > > I will do that later today :-) I wasn't sure if the partial watr > > > change could stress them out and cause whatever it is to get > worse. > > > My mom's boyfriend says they look like they are doing exactly > what > > > bass do when they have a nest. But these are all live bearers, so > I > > > dunno what they are doing. > > > > > > > I would start by raising the salinity level depending on what > > > the "tiny > > > > algae eater" is. You need to find out the species and see if > they > > > are salt > > > > tolerant as many catfish aren't... if it's a catfish. > > > > > > I don't think it is a catfish, I will have to google algae eaters > > and > > > try to find pictures to identify it. How much salt would you put > in it > > > if it is a 20 gallon tank? Oh, and the big gourami in the little > tank > > > is laying on the bottom a lot, too, but he is one of the fish > with > > > brown on him, so maybe he just doesn't feel good? That is the > tank > > > that is getting the Jungle Lifeguard stuff, can I still put > > salt > > > in it? How much for a 5 gallon? I have a box of aquarium salt, so > I > > > would be using that. Oh, and the two sick fish in the tiny tank (5 > > > gallon) are getting a bigger tank tomorrow (10 gallon). > > > > > > > You should also increase the O2 levels in tank by increasing > surface > > > > agitation. > > > > > > Well, I have a long bubble stone and a small round bubble stone > in the > > > 20 gallon tank (the one with the fish on the bottom). I can > > turn > > > the air up, but it makes it look like the water is boiling, > > > almost...because of so many bubbles...if that's ok, I'll crank it > > up. > > > > > > > This article explains the uses and doses of salt. > > > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > > > > > > > Oops, disregard the above questions about salt, then :-) > > > > > > > 76-78F is not "hot" for tropical fish. It's on the low end of > the > > > scale for > > > > them. What was the normal temperature of the tank prior to this > > > heat spell? > > > > > > Mostly it hangs around 74...usually 76....I know that 78 isn't > much of > > > an increase, but it was higher than normal. > > > > > > > What might you have done that might have thrown your tank back > > into > > > a cycle? > > > > > > Well, last time I gravel vacuumed, I used the sprayer on the > > kitchen > > > sink to wash out the filter (it had brown goo on it, and my water > > was > > > cloudy, so I rinsed it and it cleared up overnight). Someone told > > me > > > I probably restarted the cycle because of rinsing the good > bacteria > > > out of the filter. Suggested putting two cartridges in the one > > filter > > > so I could alternate rinsing them. That way I always have good > > > bacteris in one of them, at least. > > > > > > > You stated that your test results were OK. What were the numbers > > > for > > > > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you have? > > > > > > Uhm, I threw away the strip, but it was: > > > ph 7.5 > > > nitrite and nitrate I am not 100% sure...it was one of these two > > > combinations: if the nitrite was 0, then the nitrate was about > 40. > > If > > > the nitrate was 0, then the nitrite was about 1. > > > > > > The two tests are next to each other and I don't remember which > one > > > was pink (meaning more than 0). > > > > > > I'm thinking it was the nitrate that was pink (meaning 40) because > > I > > > had read somewhere that is a good level to have the tank at and > > when > > > I looked at the test, I wasn't worried. > > > > > > I don't have an ammonia test. Need to get that big master kit, > but > > > don't have the money at the moment (should soon, though). > > > > > > thanks a ton! > > > anndrea > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 > 2:36 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26652	From: Melissa	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab

Amanda, I'm not going to comment on the debate going on, I just wanted to make a small sidebar comment. You sound like one of the "fun" teachers and I would have much prefered this in biology instead of the countless disections that my class did. Yuck! Although it was pretty funny when I accidentally cut into the airsack of my perch and I thought the poor little guy was empty. No organs, no anything. It even took a minute for my teacher to figure out what I had done, and by that time, I was convinced my fish was a mutant superfish, able to live with nothing on the inside. hahaha. Melissa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26653	From: ED	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: GMO's

Just a quick note. ANY genetically altered entity , be it a fish or a plant(CORN) can have serious side affects. Does anyone remember the serious decline in Monarch butterflies due to GENETICALLY ALTERED CORN. OH! It's fine plant thousands of acres of it. OOOOPPPSSSS! We were wrong. Amanda is in Canada, No offense but arn't there import issues to deal with , shipping from another country. I know they hold plants and animals in quarentine. How will you ship these fish? I would never want a genetically altered anything. I do not have a PhD, Though I have a degreee in electronics engineering, I also worked closely with hybridizers of African Violets. Hybrid-mixed crossing Geneticly altered--man made BIG DIFF.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26654	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant

One of the things I have been toying around with is taking my emperor 400's on my tank and joining them with a wider reservoir and putting plants, like "lucky bamboo" in it to filter some of the waster out of the water. The filters would still operate in a very similar fashion to what they do now, but they would have a larger and shallower reservoir attached to them. Obvious part of the back of the filer would be cut off to accommodate this. It's all in a planning stage of sorts as I am not sure how I would do this, but I think it would greatly compliment my natural planted tanks. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny /*Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:54 PM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant /* /*If you want to use the plant in your tank to aid in filtration of the /*water, /*you could use a clear plastic hang-on-tank breeding separator and then put /*some river rocks and the lucky bamboo in it. It would be growing out of /*your tank but would work for a while. The reason I say a while is my /*lucky /*bamboo is nearly 3' tall now... growing like crazy just off of weekly /*water /*changes and refilling the few inches of water with removed tank water. /*The /*lucky bamboo does not like tap water containing chlorine/chloramine but /*it /*loves fish water with the nutrients from the fish waste. /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Lisa Robinson /*Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:22 PM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Contradictory info. on "lucky bamboo" plant /* /*Do you know of any attractive and/or creative ways to do this? /* /*My problem is that the plant is 7 inches tall and my tank is 2 ft deep. /* /* /* /*--------------------------------- /* /* /* /*It is not a true aquatic plant. I've used them in a 2G Betta Vase before /* /*but I had them suspended where only the roots and the bottom couple of /* /*inches of the stalk were in the water. I've read posts by others who say /* /*they did have them in their tanks but they also had a couple of inches of /* /*air space or open top tanks so the stalks would grow out of the water and /* /*the leaves would be in the air. Every reputable site that I found about /* /*proper care said only a couple of inches of the stalks should be under /* /*water. /* /* /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /* /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /* /* /* /*-----Original Message----- It says on the /* /* /* /*container it came in "Live Aquatic Plant - For Fresh Water Aquariums". The /* /*scientific name /* /* /* /*of the plant is Dracaena Sanderiana. I learned via some reading on the net /* /*that /* /* /* /*it is commonly called the "Lucky Bamboo". Now, here is where I'm all /* /*confused. /* /* /* /*Some people/forums/information say that it IS NOT submersible and others /*say /* /* /*it /* /* /* /*is completely submersible. What to you guys know about it? /* /* /*No virus found in this outgoing message. /*Checked by AVG. /*Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 /*12:33 PM /* /* /* /*------------------------------------ /* /*Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. /*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /*

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26655	From: Shelley Kate Coffman	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: fuzz on my driftwood

I started my first planted aquarium. I set up eco substrate with driftwood for almost a month prior to placing fish in. I am using a diy co2 which is making the plant really grow nice. I have, after the tank was established put angelfish and swordtails. They had been doing quite well. I did a normal water change yesterday, 20% and today they were panting near the top of the tank. There is some white fuzz on the driftwood that wasn't there before the water change. I also put flourish for the plants in with the water change. Should I make another water change? My tank is 50 gallon column tank with about 10 fish. 4 angels, 6 swordtails and 3 cory.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26656	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: GMO's

I'm not in Canada...I'm in the US amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Just a quick note. ANY genetically altered entity , be it a fish or a > plant(CORN) can have serious side affects. > Does anyone remember the serious decline in Monarch butterflies due to > GENETICALLY ALTERED CORN. > OH! It's fine plant thousands of acres of it. OOOOPPPSSSS! We were > wrong. > > Amanda is in Canada, No offense but arn't there import issues to deal > with , shipping from another country. > > I know they hold plants and animals in quarentine. > How will you ship these fish? > > I would never want a genetically altered anything. I do not have a PhD, > Though I have a degreee in electronics engineering, I also worked > closely with hybridizers of African Violets. > Hybrid-mixed crossing > Geneticly altered--man made > BIG DIFF. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26657	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: RE : [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies availab

Thanks Melissa You know...you were one of the fortunate ones...now kids don't even get to dissect very much until college. When I started teaching, I thought they'd all dissected as I did in high school, so I didn't do as much...then, I find out that it's a new expereince for them and they think dissection is cool LOL, in fact, the perch was one of the Vertebrate Zoology class's favorite lab days. I also try to do lots of trips--we did see the behind the scenes at the pittsburg aquarium....VERY COOL, and the largest skimmer I've ever seen!!! Really cool filtration, but standing above the shark tank (open top, could easily have fallen in) was a bit intimidating. The students got to see and do some amazing things that day. The PPG aquarium is worth the drive--GREAT leafy sea dragon exhibit, and I believe they are breeding them there now. Too bad I only do rainbow trout in my research...when people first see the size of the trout testes, you can't help but think "...how do they swim with those things?!" Seriously, for the size of body, the testis is HUGE in the salmonids! I'm sure that'd get a laugh, even at the college level. Thanks for the comments... Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <waterlogged1214@...> wrote: > > Amanda, I'm not going to comment on the debate going on, I just wanted > to make a small sidebar comment. You sound like one of the "fun" > teachers and I would have much prefered this in biology instead of the > countless disections that my class did. Yuck! > > Although it was pretty funny when I accidentally cut into the airsack > of my perch and I thought the poor little guy was empty. No organs, no > anything. It even took a minute for my teacher to figure out what I > had done, and by that time, I was convinced my fish was a mutant > superfish, able to live with nothing on the inside. hahaha. > > Melissa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26658	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Need your thoughts.

I have a mickey mouse platy that has been spending alot of time upright (head up tail down). This has been happening for two days now and none of the other fish are having any problems at all and he also seemed to be having a hard time keeping himself from turning towards the side when he did have himself horizontal. He hid alot and didnt move much except enough to keep him in one spot He didnt even eat today. I put him in his own little five gallon tank tonight and I sware when I went to get him in the net after a 30 second chase he played dead..he turn upside down and just let me get him. Then was ok once I put him in his own little tank. The same water and one of the filters from his big tank is being used in his tank its the same temp and all. Now although he still seems to turn a little tiny bit sideways every now and then he is being very active swimming up and down and all over. There is no meds or anything in the tank because I have no clue what was/is wrong. Any suggestions? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26659	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: Need your thoughts.

How old is he? I had some albino buenos aires tetras that all did this shortly before dying. I never could figure out what was wrong with them and tried several different treatments (Salt, Melafix, Antibiotic Food, Antiparasite Food, etc.) on the tank and fish as the tetras slowly died off one by one within a couple of months. The other fish seemed unaffected although the Gouramis regularly had health issues. They were severely stunted and only around 3.5" to 4" in length. These were some of the fish I rescued from having lived in a 10G severely overstocked tank for two years... about 100G+ worth of fish in that 10G. They lived about another year in a otherwise healthy 20G tank before succumbing although several of the fish from that rescue regularly had/have health issues. I blame these early deaths and regular health problems on the severe stunting that resulted from their being kept in an undersized tank for so long. The only fish that seemed to recover completely, with no recurring health problems from that situation was the common pleco that was also in the 10G tank (along with two Blue Gourami's, a school of the tetras and a school of Zebra Danios). He lived with me in a 65G for two more years and grew from 4" to 10" before I had to re-home him since I couldn't get a BIGGER tank due to limited housing space post-Katrina. In your case, you should try a salt treatment first and work your way up from there. Salt is helpful against bacterial and parasitic issues. Start off with 1 level teaspoon per gallon, mixed with some removed tank water and slowly added back into the tank over the course of several hours so the fish (and nitrifying bacteria) can acclimate to the increased salinity level. 1 teaspoon per gallon will raise the salinity to around 0.1%. Over the following 48 hours, increase the salinity to 0.3% (a total of 3 level teaspoons per gallon). After a total of a week, let us know how he's doing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need your thoughts. I have a mickey mouse platy that has been spending alot of time upright (head up tail down). This has been happening for two days now and none of the other fish are having any problems at all and he also seemed to be having a hard time keeping himself from turning towards the side when he did have himself horizontal. He hid alot and didnt move much except enough to keep him in one spot He didnt even eat today. I put him in his own little five gallon tank tonight and I sware when I went to get him in the net after a 30 second chase he played dead..he turn upside down and just let me get him. Then was ok once I put him in his own little tank. The same water and one of the filters from his big tank is being used in his tank its the same temp and all. Now although he still seems to turn a little tiny bit sideways every now and then he is being very active swimming up and down and all over. There is no meds or anything in the tank because I have no clue what was/is wrong. Any suggestions? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26660	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: fuzz on my driftwood

I never had the problem but I've read forum posts of others who have and it's supposed to be harmless. I just did a quick Google on 'white fuzz on driftwood in aquarium' and this was the top link... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/driftwood.php and near the bottom of that article is this paragraph... "...What's that fuzz on my driftwood? Quite often after driftwood is added to an aquarium, a white almost transparent fuzz will grow on it. This fuzz can appear several weeks to several months after the driftwood is added to the aquarium. Popular thinking is this fuzz is either a fungus or a mold. Either way it's harmless, unfortunately it's not pleasing to look at. Some people have had luck just brushing it off. Others have had luck by introducing algae eating fish, as they will actually eat it. Neither technique will guarantee preventing this fuzz from recurring. The important thing is to have faith, as it will eventually disappear." Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shelley Kate Coffman Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fuzz on my driftwood I started my first planted aquarium. I set up eco substrate with driftwood for almost a month prior to placing fish in. I am using a diy co2 which is making the plant really grow nice. I have, after the tank was established put angelfish and swordtails. They had been doing quite well. I did a normal water change yesterday, 20% and today they were panting near the top of the tank. There is some white fuzz on the driftwood that wasn't there before the water change. I also put flourish for the plants in with the water change. Should I make another water change? My tank is 50 gallon column tank with about 10 fish. 4 angels, 6 swordtails and 3 cory. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26661	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Re: Need your thoughts.

I do know that this male is the father of the baby female I have. He is quite larger (not as large as our other platies) and definitely an adult but I do not know the age. The baby is about 3 months old and she so far seems unaffected but she has been in a 30 gallon with the sick (not right) one and two other platies since she was much littler. I am pretty sure this male will not make it but as I said there is nothing wrong that I can tell. I tried doing a search for fish swimming verticle head up tail down qnd couldnt find anything. Oh and I asked Mike (fish guy) where thse ones came from and he told me these fish came to him from a man who had 100,s of them...Mike sectioned them off into tanks but maybe it was too late for the adults. Im not real sure but the way this one is acting is unlike anything I can find online about fish illnesses. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 11:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need your thoughts. How old is he? I had some albino buenos aires tetras that all did this shortly before dying. I never could figure out what was wrong with them and tried several different treatments (Salt, Melafix, Antibiotic Food, Antiparasite Food, etc.) on the tank and fish as the tetras slowly died off one by one within a couple of months. The other fish seemed unaffected although the Gouramis regularly had health issues. They were severely stunted and only around 3.5" to 4" in length. These were some of the fish I rescued from having lived in a 10G severely overstocked tank for two years... about 100G+ worth of fish in that 10G. They lived about another year in a otherwise healthy 20G tank before succumbing although several of the fish from that rescue regularly had/have health issues. I blame these early deaths and regular health problems on the severe stunting that resulted from their being kept in an undersized tank for so long. The only fish that seemed to recover completely, with no recurring health problems from that situation was the common pleco that was also in the 10G tank (along with two Blue Gourami's, a school of the tetras and a school of Zebra Danios). He lived with me in a 65G for two more years and grew from 4" to 10" before I had to re-home him since I couldn't get a BIGGER tank due to limited housing space post-Katrina. In your case, you should try a salt treatment first and work your way up from there. Salt is helpful against bacterial and parasitic issues. Start off with 1 level teaspoon per gallon, mixed with some removed tank water and slowly added back into the tank over the course of several hours so the fish (and nitrifying bacteria) can acclimate to the increased salinity level. 1 teaspoon per gallon will raise the salinity to around 0.1%. Over the following 48 hours, increase the salinity to 0.3% (a total of 3 level teaspoons per gallon). After a total of a week, let us know how he's doing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need your thoughts. I have a mickey mouse platy that has been spending alot of time upright (head up tail down). This has been happening for two days now and none of the other fish are having any problems at all and he also seemed to be having a hard time keeping himself from turning towards the side when he did have himself horizontal. He hid alot and didnt move much except enough to keep him in one spot He didnt even eat today. I put him in his own little five gallon tank tonight and I sware when I went to get him in the net after a 30 second chase he played dead..he turn upside down and just let me get him. Then was ok once I put him in his own little tank. The same water and one of the filters from his big tank is being used in his tank its the same temp and all. Now although he still seems to turn a little tiny bit sideways every now and then he is being very active swimming up and down and all over. There is no meds or anything in the tank because I have no clue what was/is wrong. Any suggestions? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26662	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/17/2008
Subject: Thinking real hard about rehoming...

...my tinfoils. Even in the 55gal they are growing so unbelievably fast. They are so beautiful with their bright red and black fins but they are growing so fast that I know they will outgrow the 55 in no time at all. I hate the idea of letting them go but I woukd also not want to keep them and have them in too small of a tank and we have already over done ourselves with two 55's, a 20 and my sons 10 gal. They are ALOT of work. I have asked around and people have suggested calling aquariums in our area. I have time to do research and look around for the best place possible for them so if anyone has any other ideas besides public aquariums feel free to mention them to me. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26663	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Need your thoughts.

One very strong possibility for the malady of this fish is either a swim bladder disease or swim bladder disorder. Most probable in this case, if it indeed is the result of one of these, its inclined to be the latter. In this case, it appears as if only the posterior portion of the swim bladder may be affected, which is often caused by impacting of the intestines, compressing the rear portion of the swim bladder -- causing the fish to swim head-up. A swim bladder disease usually affects the entire gas bladder, which would result in the bouyancy of the entire fish usually being affected more uniformly, manifesting itself as either too bouyant (fish floating horizontally) or insufficiently bouyant (fish lying on the bottom horizontally); which is why a disorder instead looks more in line with how the fish is swimming. While its impossible to pinpoint the actual cause for your fishes condition, I'm only suggesting what it very well may be, from your description of its swimming patterns. You may try 2 tsp of Epsom Salts per 10 gallon as a bath; if the fish is eating, feed it shelled green peas. For a 10 - 15 minute (approximate) dip, 1 Tbsp per gallon of Epsom Salts is recommended. In the less likely event that the condition may be due to a bacterial infection, you'll need to treat with a highly absorpable antibiotic to ensure the medication acts internally, in which case the broad- spectrum Naladixic Acid is most effective against pathogens such as the various Pseudomonas bacilli which are often the cause of this. Kanamycin sulfate, another of the broad-spectrum more highly absorpant antibacters works equally well against Pseudomonas, but again this condition has many causes (even genetic), so these are not sure cures -- just what may work within the confines of the most prevalent causes. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > I have a mickey mouse platy that has been spending alot of time upright (head up tail down). This has been happening for two days now and none of the other fish are having any problems at all and he also seemed to be having a hard time keeping himself from turning towards the side when he did have himself horizontal. He hid alot and didnt move much except enough to keep him in one spot He didnt even eat today. I put him in his own little five gallon tank tonight and I sware when I went to get him in the net after a 30 second chase he played dead..he turn upside down and just let me get him. Then was ok once I put him in his own little tank. The same water and one of the filters from his big tank is being used in his tank its the same temp and all. Now although he still seems to turn a little tiny bit sideways every now and then he is being very active swimming up and down and all over. There is no meds or anything in the tank because I have no clue what was/is wrong. Any suggestions? > > „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26664	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Need your thoughts.

Thanks for the info Ray. He is still alive but still head up tail down. By the way after doing my PWC yesterday he was on the bottom with his body horizontal and flat right in the flattened groove where I added the water but not for very long. Ive been doing salt since last night and if the salt doesnt work I will work on getting the antibiotic. Again thanks Ray. -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need your thoughts. One very strong possibility for the malady of this fish is either a swim bladder disease or swim bladder disorder. Most probable in this case, if it indeed is the result of one of these, its inclined to be the latter. In this case, it appears as if only the posterior portion of the swim bladder may be affected, which is often caused by impacting of the intestines, compressing the rear portion of the swim bladder -- causing the fish to swim head-up. A swim bladder disease usually affects the entire gas bladder, which would result in the bouyancy of the entire fish usually being affected more uniformly, manifesting itself as either too bouyant (fish floating horizontally) or insufficiently bouyant (fish lying on the bottom horizontally); which is why a disorder instead looks more in line with how the fish is swimming. While its impossible to pinpoint the actual cause for your fishes condition, I'm only suggesting what it very well may be, from your description of its swimming patterns. You may try 2 tsp of Epsom Salts per 10 gallon as a bath; if the fish is eating, feed it shelled green peas. For a 10 - 15 minute (approximate) dip, 1 Tbsp per gallon of Epsom Salts is recommended. In the less likely event that the condition may be due to a bacterial infection, you'll need to treat with a highly absorpable antibiotic to ensure the medication acts internally, in which case the broad- spectrum Naladixic Acid is most effective against pathogens such as the various Pseudomonas bacilli which are often the cause of this. Kanamycin sulfate, another of the broad-spectrum more highly absorpant antibacters works equally well against Pseudomonas, but again this condition has many causes (even genetic), so these are not sure cures -- just what may work within the confines of the most prevalent causes. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > I have a mickey mouse platy that has been spending alot of time upright (head up tail down). This has been happening for two days now and none of the other fish are having any problems at all and he also seemed to be having a hard time keeping himself from turning towards the side when he did have himself horizontal. He hid alot and didnt move much except enough to keep him in one spot He didnt even eat today. I put him in his own little five gallon tank tonight and I sware when I went to get him in the net after a 30 second chase he played dead..he turn upside down and just let me get him. Then was ok once I put him in his own little tank. The same water and one of the filters from his big tank is being used in his tank its the same temp and all. Now although he still seems to turn a little tiny bit sideways every now and then he is being very active swimming up and down and all over. There is no meds or anything in the tank because I have no clue what was/is wrong. Any suggestions? > > „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26665	From: ED	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Platies

Wierd just last night our daughter brought home about 10-12 mickey mouse platies and one bluish-green one from a friends tank. They came from an unheated tank and are just this morning really swimming around. Some are obviously pregnant, they had tooooo many in thier 20long already. Geuss I need to read up a bit for our new lil finned friends.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26666	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Thinking real hard about rehoming...

Yeah.. they get much too large (10"++) and are fast swimmers so they need a BIG tank, especially if you have a school of them. I'd say at least a 6' long, probably 8' long tank would be best. Speaking of "A LOT of work", having the proper sized tank from the start makes things so much easier in fish keeping since the tank is going to be more stabile so your not having to constantly be testing the water, doing PWC's, having health problems, etc. You could post on your local Craigslist.org in the "Free" For Sale section or try selling them first on CL. There's also AquaBid.com and of course, listing them in this group. Or you could do like I was going to do before Katrina changed my plans... and make one wall in your living room with some built in cabinets on the bottom (storage and hides all the filters and equipment), then two 150G tanks on top (one for tropicals, one for my fancy goldfish), and then book shelves on top of that. To me, this would take only 2' of space out of the room but provide tons of storage and shelf space at the same time as providing a central display for your fish tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 12:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thinking real hard about rehoming... ...my tinfoils. Even in the 55gal they are growing so unbelievably fast. They are so beautiful with their bright red and black fins but they are growing so fast that I know they will outgrow the 55 in no time at all. I hate the idea of letting them go but I woukd also not want to keep them and have them in too small of a tank and we have already over done ourselves with two 55's, a 20 and my sons 10 gal. They are ALOT of work. I have asked around and people have suggested calling aquariums in our area. I have time to do research and look around for the best place possible for them so if anyone has any other ideas besides public aquariums feel free to mention them to me. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26667	From: ED	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE

Why are GloFish® the only fluorescent fish that can be sold in the United States? Because fluorescent fish are unique, their sale is covered by a substantial number of patents and pending patent applications. The providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest Farms, are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to produce and market fluorescent fish within the United States. The production of fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fluorescent fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, is strictly prohibited. For additional information regarding GloFish® fluorescent fish license details please click here.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26668	From: ED	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE

Straight from the source copyrights are in place Amanda 4) Intentional breeding and/or any sale, barter, or trade, of any offspring of GloFishâ fluorescent ornamental fish is strictly prohibited. 5) Notwithstanding the foregoing, production of these fish is permitted for educational use by teachers and students in bona fide educational institutions, provided, however, that any sale, barter, or trade, of the offspring from such reproduction of these fish is strictly prohibited. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Why are GloFish® the only fluorescent fish that can be sold in the > United States? > Because fluorescent fish are unique, their sale is covered by a > substantial number of patents and pending patent applications. The > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest Farms, > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to produce > and market fluorescent fish within the United States. The production of > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fluorescent > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, is > strictly prohibited. For additional information regarding GloFish® > fluorescent fish license details please click here. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26669	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Platies

I bought 4 platies,1 male and three females,and in six months I had over 50 platies.They can have babies every 28 days if conditions are right.I keep the temp 78 degrees and added a tablespoon salt per gallon of water.I have other platies in a different tank,and it is much cooler,and they haven't had any babies,although they were breeding before.I plan to put a bigger heater in there,as I have some new neon moons,green/black,and want some offspring of those.They are alot of fun to watch and everytime u walk by,they think u r coming to feed them.They love snails and algae,so I put the nuisance snails from my other tank in there. Lots of luck,and have fun.Sheri--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Wierd just last night our daughter brought home about 10-12 mickey > mouse platies and one bluish-green one from a friends tank. They came > from an unheated tank and are just this morning really swimming around. > Some are obviously pregnant, they had tooooo many in thier 20long > already. Geuss I need to read up a bit for our new lil finned friends. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26670	From: ED	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE

I'm not trying to be a pain, But being as they are copyrighted fish I wouldn't want you to get yourself in trouble. Imean MICKEY is the mouse an only Disney can sell or trade/barter his image. Same with these fish. I would think you have anew strain if you have blue, Have you tried contacting the company that owns these rights. Possable they may be interested in you experiments. Just a suggestion. 'Sunshine and Gentle Breezes' --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Why are GloFish® the only fluorescent fish that can be sold in the > United States? > Because fluorescent fish are unique, their sale is covered by a > substantial number of patents and pending patent applications. The > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest Farms, > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to produce > and market fluorescent fish within the United States. The production of > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fluorescent > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, is > strictly prohibited. For additional information regarding GloFish® > fluorescent fish license details please click here. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26671	From: ED	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Platies

Yeppers I missed the salt part. D^%$. One serpia tetre in with them. Figures, that may be part of the problem. TY --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sheriartist57" <sheriartist57@...> wrote: > > I bought 4 platies,1 male and three females,and in six months I had > over 50 platies.They can have babies every 28 days if conditions are > right.I keep the temp 78 degrees and added a tablespoon salt per > gallon of water.I have other platies in a different tank,and it is > much cooler,and they haven't had any babies,although they were > breeding before.I plan to put a bigger heater in there,as I have some > new neon moons,green/black,and want some offspring of those.They are > alot of fun to watch and everytime u walk by,they think u r coming to > feed them.They love snails and algae,so I put the nuisance snails from > my other tank in there. > Lots of luck,and have fun.Sheri--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "ED" <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > Wierd just last night our daughter brought home about 10-12 mickey > > mouse platies and one bluish-green one from a friends tank. They came > > from an unheated tank and are just this morning really swimming around. > > Some are obviously pregnant, they had tooooo many in thier 20long > > already. Geuss I need to read up a bit for our new lil finned friends. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26672	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: fuzz on my driftwood

In a message dated 3/18/2008 12:37:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I'm surprised you didn't answer the question about another PWC Lenny - especially since I learned from you that a PWC is usually the best solution - providing you know the water parameters you are adding. After reading your tutorials I have become the water testing queen - both hot and cold before and after dechlor, buffer or flourish. If I did a PWC and my fish were now gasping, I'd grab the test kit before anything else. Right Lenny? :) I never had the problem but I've read forum posts of others who have and it's supposed to be harmless. I just did a quick Google on 'white fuzz on driftwood in aquarium' and this was the top link... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/driftwood.php and near the bottom of that article is this paragraph... "...What's that fuzz on my driftwood? Quite often after driftwood is added to an aquarium, a white almost transparent fuzz will grow on it. This fuzz can appear several weeks to several months after the driftwood is added to the aquarium. Popular thinking is this fuzz is either a fungus or a mold. Either way it's harmless, unfortunately it's not pleasing to look at. Some people have had luck just brushing it off. Others have had luck by introducing algae eating fish, as they will actually eat it. Neither technique will guarantee preventing this fuzz from recurring. The important thing is to have faith, as it will eventually disappear." Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shelley Kate Coffman Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fuzz on my driftwood I started my first planted aquarium. I set up eco substrate with driftwood for almost a month prior to placing fish in. I am using a diy co2 which is making the plant really grow nice. I have, after the tank was established put angelfish and swordtails. They had been doing quite well. I did a normal water change yesterday, 20% and today they were panting near the top of the tank. There is some white fuzz on the driftwood that wasn't there before the water change. I also put flourish for the plants in with the water change. Should I make another water change? My tank is 50 gallon column tank with about 10 fish. 4 angels, 6 swordtails and 3 cory. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26673	From: whjordan83	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Electronic Monitors & Controllers

Been looking for an accurate electornic moniter for pH and conductivity to help out with the testing of my fish tanks. I have five running tanks and I moniter temp at least three time daily and pH almost once daily. Using liquid test kits and dip tests gets tiring and time consuming. I log everything I do into Aquarix software. Does anyone have any suggestions or knowledge about which brands work better than others? Anyone out there used any before?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26674	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: fuzz on my driftwood

Well... I was pretty certain that doing a PWC wouldn't cause this "fuzz" to grow on your driftwood. It's just a natural thing that happens with certain driftwoods. They are organic so things will grow on and in them. Pleco's and probably other fish actually eat the wood as a part of their diet. Just like any other food, mold/fungi can grow on them. It could be one of the "foods" in the ecocomplete or fluorish that provides an added food source along with the driftwood that promotes this fuzz. If you hunted around in all of the various planted tank forums and pleco forums, you might find a pattern. In a new tank (and an old one), all kinds of things can happen as the ecology of the tank gets established or changes. I've also seen it happen to my existing tanks after I moved, following Katrina. Since I changed the ecology in the tanks, due to the move, I had all kinds of new "critters" sprouting up in the tanks. Now that the tanks ecology have re-established themselves, I don't have all the critters popping up. Just like in nature, there needs to be a balance of predators and prey, which self regulate based on the available food supply. If you disrupt the amount of prey, then the predators die off. If you disrupt the amount of predators, then the amount of prey will increase. I'm starting to sound like Mr. Miyagi... "Danielson, you must have balance!" LOL And as far as your question about doing another PWC? I don't think one can ever do too many PWC's... LOL Well, I guess if you were doing PWC's every 10 minutes, that might be too many, although Mother Nature does that and more in fast flowing streams. "Dilution is the solution for pollution!" Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fuzz on my driftwood In a message dated 3/18/2008 12:37:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: I'm surprised you didn't answer the question about another PWC Lenny - especially since I learned from you that a PWC is usually the best solution - providing you know the water parameters you are adding. After reading your tutorials I have become the water testing queen - both hot and cold before and after dechlor, buffer or flourish. If I did a PWC and my fish were now gasping, I'd grab the test kit before anything else. Right Lenny? :) I never had the problem but I've read forum posts of others who have and it's supposed to be harmless. I just did a quick Google on 'white fuzz on driftwood in aquarium' and this was the top link... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/driftwood.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/driftwood.php> and near the bottom of that article is this paragraph... "...What's that fuzz on my driftwood? Quite often after driftwood is added to an aquarium, a white almost transparent fuzz will grow on it. This fuzz can appear several weeks to several months after the driftwood is added to the aquarium. Popular thinking is this fuzz is either a fungus or a mold. Either way it's harmless, unfortunately it's not pleasing to look at. Some people have had luck just brushing it off. Others have had luck by introducing algae eating fish, as they will actually eat it. Neither technique will guarantee preventing this fuzz from recurring. The important thing is to have faith, as it will eventually disappear." Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Shelley Kate Coffman Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] fuzz on my driftwood I started my first planted aquarium. I set up eco substrate with driftwood for almost a month prior to placing fish in. I am using a diy co2 which is making the plant really grow nice. I have, after the tank was established put angelfish and swordtails. They had been doing quite well. I did a normal water change yesterday, 20% and today they were panting near the top of the tank. There is some white fuzz on the driftwood that wasn't there before the water change. I also put flourish for the plants in with the water change. Should I make another water change? My tank is 50 gallon column tank with about 10 fish. 4 angels, 6 swordtails and 3 cory. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26675	From: poul wehner	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: fuzzy driftwood

I added a large piece of driftwood to my 75 gallon and within a week I had some nasty looking mold/fungus growing on it. It was attached yet long enough to whisper with the water flow. It was grey black in color and the pleco's were not interested. After a week I did a 1/3 water change and withing a few days it was all gone. I don't add CO2 but I suspect a water change will take care of this. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Shelley Kate Coffman > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] fuzz on my driftwood > > I started my first planted aquarium. I set up eco substrate with driftwood > for almost a month prior to placing fish in. I am using a diy co2 which is > making the plant really grow nice. I have, after the tank was established > put angelfish and swordtails. They had been doing quite well. I did a normal > water change yesterday, 20% and today they were panting near the top of the > tank. There is some white fuzz on the driftwood that wasn't there before the > water change. I also put flourish for the plants in with the water change. > Should I make another water change? My tank is 50 gallon column tank with > about 10 fish. 4 angels, 6 swordtails and 3 cory. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26676	From: Shelley Kate Coffman	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: fuzzy driftwood

Thank you for all the help. I am going to get the water tested as the angels are still panting at the surface and not eating as well as usual. I will do yet another PWC tonight, I scrubbed off the fuzz, it is back. Persistent stuff, --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, poul wehner <poul.wehner@...> wrote: > > I added a large piece of driftwood to my 75 gallon and within a week I > had some nasty looking mold/fungus growing on it. It was attached yet > long enough to whisper with the water flow. It was grey black in color > and the pleco's were not interested. After a week I did a 1/3 water > change and withing a few days it was all gone. > I don't add CO2 but I suspect a water change will take care of this. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Shelley Kate Coffman > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] fuzz on my driftwood > > > > I started my first planted aquarium. I set up eco substrate with driftwood > > for almost a month prior to placing fish in. I am using a diy co2 which is > > making the plant really grow nice. I have, after the tank was established > > put angelfish and swordtails. They had been doing quite well. I did a normal > > water change yesterday, 20% and today they were panting near the top of the > > tank. There is some white fuzz on the driftwood that wasn't there before the > > water change. I also put flourish for the plants in with the water change. > > Should I make another water change? My tank is 50 gallon column tank with > > about 10 fish. 4 angels, 6 swordtails and 3 cory. > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26677	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE

ED, You are confusing two quite different critters here. The fish are patented. There is no copyright on the fish. The name Glofish is a registered trademark, a different critter from patents and copyrights. See here for the difference between copyright and trademark: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Whats_the_differnce_between_copyright_and_trademark A less satisfactory answer exists for the difference between copyright and patent: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_difference_between_copyright_and_patent For a short discussion of all three, see: http://www.lawmart.com/searches/difference.htm You can Google for more, if you wish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE Why are GloFish® the only fluorescent fish that can be sold in the United States? Because fluorescent fish are unique, their sale is covered by a substantial number of patents and pending patent applications. The providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest Farms, are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to produce and market fluorescent fish within the United States. The production of fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fluorescent fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, is strictly prohibited. For additional information regarding GloFish® fluorescent fish license details please click here. ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26678	From: Chris	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Are test strips accurate ?

I have been testing my tanks with the 5 in 1 test strips, but read in another group that they are not accurate.......Why is that?? And what would be a better thing to use to test the water?? All my tanks are in the small variety as i live in an appartment.......I have 2 2.5, a 10g, and a 16g...........

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26679	From: Chris	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Marbled Platies

I have a community tank with 2 marbled platy, 3 micky mouse, 2 yellow platy, neon tetras, 2 african dwarf frogs, and 1 pleco.....I'm loosing a neon a night, and its the marbled platy's I see eating them in the morning! Should I take the neons out and put them back with their betta friend? Thus making the tank virtually all platy?? I had 10 neons when I put in the marbeled platy, now I have 7........any advice would be helpful...Oh their in a 16 gallon.......and the betta is in a 2.5 with his 2 african dwarf frogs..... I also have another 2.5 with three silver lyre platy.... Thanks, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Wierd just last night our daughter brought home about 10-12 mickey > mouse platies and one bluish-green one from a friends tank. They came > from an unheated tank and are just this morning really swimming around. > Some are obviously pregnant, they had tooooo many in thier 20long > already. Geuss I need to read up a bit for our new lil finned friends. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26680	From: Chris Corley	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: lighting

Hello all my name is Chris been doing some research on COMPACT bulbs. My question is. I have a ORBIT 48" light that I used on the saltwater tank. It has 2 65 watt Sunpaq Duel daylight 6700k/10,000k, I know this would work for freshwater plants but I want to change the other side of the light out due to they are actinic lights which are no good for plants. Do I need to go with the 6700/10,000 set up again or is there a Compact straight pin bulb that I could use to get the most out of for my plants to use? I have a 75 gallon tank in the process of setting it up. Any help with would be really helpful please. I have read so much on the internet about lighting and everyone has a different answer. I want the dark green lush look. I plan on using C02, need to take the first steps first and get my lighting 100%. I am looking at star moss too anyone no where to get that locally? Thanks Chris West Central Ga

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26681	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Update on my platy.

Well although he still isnt acting "normal" he is atleast horizontal tonight. He is chilling at the bottom of the tank not laying on it but floating right above it. His head still tries to float up every now and then but for the most part he seems to beable to keep himself horizontal now. He is eating but has not be very active. Maybe the salt and skinned peas are helping? I hope so but we will see...I will keep you all updated. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26682	From: alan.blake21	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

My name is Alan Blake; I am the CEO of Yorktown Technologies, L.P., the exclusive licensor of GloFish® fluorescent fish. I am writing to respond to Dr. Stewart's offer to "swap" offspring of our fish. While we are eager to support the use of our fish for educational purposes, please note that our fish are covered by a variety of intellectual property rights. For specific details relating to our license agreement, please visit www.glofish.com/license.htm. In particular, please note that our license agreement includes the following points: "3) GloFish® fluorescent fish are licensed under one or more of the following United States Patents Nos. 7,135,613; 7,150,979 and 7,166,444, as well as other pending applications. 4) Intentional breeding and/or any sale, barter, or trade, of any offspring of GloFish® fluorescent ornamental fish is strictly prohibited. 5) Notwithstanding the foregoing, production of these fish is permitted for educational use by teachers and students in bona fide educational institutions, provided, however, that any sale, barter, or trade, of the offspring from such reproduction of these fish is strictly prohibited." As described in point number 5 (above) we only allow our fish to be reproduced in certain strictly educational related circumstances, provided the offspring are not sold, bartered, or traded. With that in mind, we ask for everyone's cooperation in respecting our intellectual property rights and not participating in any activity to the contrary. If you should have any questions regarding this license, please contact us by visiting www.glofish.com/contact.asp. In the hope of informing some of the other topics that have been debated regarding our fish, I would invite everyone to review the information that we have posted at www.glofish.com/about.asp and www.glofish.com/science.asp. This information includes everything from general information to detailed studies and risk assessments by federal and state agencies, as well as leading researchers in the area of ecological risk assessment. If you should have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at the web link listed above. I appreciate your cooperation and attention to this matter. Best regards, Alan Blake --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "abarker3wvuedu" <amandabstewart@...> wrote: > > To anyone that is interested, we are successfully breeding > Zebrafish "glo-fish" to study genetics, etc, as a student project > here (Bethany College, Bethany, WV). We have a variety of crosses > that we have made with a variety of "regular" and other colored glo- > fish. I am unsure about the patent's extension over "part" glo- fish > offspring, so right now we are not going to sell any fish produced, > BUT, I am more than willing to trade for other fish we can breed > here. We are breeding several different species, and wish to expand > the number of species, especially species with incomplete info about > fertility/sterility and spawning methods > > Fish we are wanting to work with now and would like to trade for, and > larger fry/juvenilles/etc are fine--adults aren't needed, but would > certainly speed us up: > -dwarf puffers > -bloody parrots > -purple passion danios > -glolite danios (DANIO CHOPRAE) > -clown rasbora > -galaxy rasbora > > Certainly--we're willing to try others as well, but I'd really like > some from this list. > > Right now, it appears that we will have some light "baby" pink zebras > and possibly some that will be bluish in color. We also hope to have > some green/yellow and it appears that some are developing some bright > gold patterns. I won't know the final color of this batch for a few > more weeks, but you are welcome to suggest a trade at any time. > > I know the ideas of this fish create much controversy, but I CAN tell > you all that this fish is fun for the students to work with and it's > getting more involved in the hobby--which couldn't be a bad thing! > > If anyone has any thoughts about the legalities of selling the fry, > let me know...it would really help us offset costs! > > Amanda Stewart, PhD > Dept. of Biology > Bethany College > Bethany WV > astewart@... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26683	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Are test strips accurate ?

I cannot speak of the 5 in 1 test strips, but scientists use test strips for quick field measurements, but they are kept under controlled conditions for the most part. You need, for good accuracy, test kits that use dry reagents. My recommendation are the Aqua-Tru kits by Kordon, though they can be hard to find. They have the best vial in the industry. One side can hold untested water, while the other holds the tested water. If the water is not clear, you will still get an accurate reading (many aquariums have water that is slightly yellow if there is driftwood in them, and the color is from tannins that leach). Any kit you buy, make sure it shows an expiration date on the reagents it uses. If the reagent is expired, do not buy it. All reagents have a certain shelf life. The dry reagents have the longest. The liquid reagents generally have a shelf life of about 6 months, and most of that can be spent sitting in a warehouse or on the dealer's shelf. While any reagent may give accurate readings after the expiration date, you will not know when they start to give false readings, and you water quality can deteriorate or remain good, while the kit tells you it is OK or deteriorating. The safest course is to properly dispose of those reagents when they reach the expiration date, if you have any left. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 4:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are test strips accurate ? I have been testing my tanks with the 5 in 1 test strips, but read in another group that they are not accurate.......Why is that?? And what would be a better thing to use to test the water?? All my tanks are in the small variety as i live in an appartment.......I have 2 2.5, a 10g, and a 16g...........

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26684	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Are test strips accurate ?

What brand do you have? I've used the Mardel brand and when compared to two other test tube kits, the 5-in-1 strips gave very inconsistent readings on a regular basis. You could even perform three separate tests at the same time and see this inconsistency. I think the reason if that each of the tests use different reagent compounds and when the test strips are packaged and shipped and bounced and jarred around, they rub against each other and there is likely some transfer of compounds onto the different test sections, which then cause inconsistent results. I suppose if you can get a bottle of test strips that were in pristine condition, they may work as good as any other test. I believe, in this forum (but it could be another group since I belong to a couple of them), there is a user who used the Jungle Brand test strips and compared the results to test tube test results and that user reported positive results. Maybe they got a bottle of test strips that were NOT jarred around very much during shipping... or maybe the Jungle Brand strips do actually work better. I'm not going to waste my money to find out. Speaking of money... (yes, I planned this segue! lol), that is another very big reason to use a $15-20 test tube type kit since you will get hundreds of tests for the $20.00 where the test strips might only give you 25-50. Another possible reason for the inconsistencies on test strips is the small sample of water used on each little square. With the test tubes, you are using 5ml or 10ml of water so you have a better sample of your tank. With the test strips, it's literally less than a drop of water on each little square. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 3:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are test strips accurate ? I have been testing my tanks with the 5 in 1 test strips, but read in another group that they are not accurate.......Why is that?? And what would be a better thing to use to test the water?? All my tanks are in the small variety as i live in an appartment.......I have 2 2.5, a 10g, and a 16g........... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26685	From: renee31477	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: moss wall

Anyone have experience with moss walls? I am getting some Christmas moss and plan to make a wall for my 10g... Anything special I need to know, do, consider?? thanks Renee

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26686	From: Chris	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Are test strips accurate ?

WOW thanks for the info....I'll have to look into the test tube kits.....My little scientist will enjoy helping me with that..(he's 7) As for the strips I have they are the jungle brand quick dip 5.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What brand do you have? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26687	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Alan, As a business person myself, I respect your right to reach for the stars in your quests for success in your business. Further, I support science's constant quest for more knowledge using genetic testing, etc., especially when it's used for the good of America and/or mankind in general... BUT... yes, there's always a "BUT"... I don't see GloFish as fulfilling the end product of being good for America or mankind and the potential ecosystem side effects outweigh their "prettiness". Other than maybe giving someone on ecstasy a better "experience" by watching their glofish swim around, I don't see the purpose in them... just like I don't see the purpose in. Frankly, I wouldn't care less if the person on ecstasy decided to go play in traffic and look at the headlights of oncoming cars on the Interstate to enhance their "experience", except for the possible injuries to the people in the cars and the possible damage they may cause to the front end of a vehicle. LOL JUST KIDDING!!! [to those folks out there who think I'm a meanie! ;-)] But seriously... it takes a very warped mindset, IMO, for someone to want to genetically enhance a fish to may them day-glo colored. It's comparable to some mad scientist wanting to create a hot pink poodle with an eight foot long green and yellow tail, that meows. What's the point??? It's the Dr. Frankenstein Complex to the Nth degree! And knowing these genetic mutants will one day be released into the wild, either intentionally or accidentally, and that they aren't sterile, they will be cross breeding with REAL zebra danio's creating a bunch of half-glowing mutant fish swimming around in our public waterways. Maybe you all should have genetically enhanced the fish so that any you distributed to the world would be sterile so there was no way for them to cause ecosystem harm and that would also protect your patent much better so people couldn't be breeding them and selling them illegally. Surely, you cannot think people are not going to breed and sell them just because you have an intellectual property patent... do you? Have you been locked up in a lab for the past 10 years and missed what is happening in the digital media world??? If Microsoft, Sony and all the other multi-billion dollar software and digital media companies can't stop a teenager from illegally downloading, copying and selling their so-called intellectual property, how do you think Yorktown will stop someone from breeding and selling glofish? One last note! If you are planning on replying to glofish debates on a regular basis, you better hire a couple of dozen assistants and start replying in the thousands of other fish forums on the web... or maybe they can just clone you a couple of dozen times. lol I've participated in this same type of discussion/debate countless times over the past several years and that's just on the few forums that I subscribe to on a regular basis. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of alan.blake21 Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP My name is Alan Blake; I am the CEO of Yorktown Technologies, L.P., the exclusive licensor of GloFish® fluorescent fish. I am writing to respond to Dr. Stewart's offer to "swap" offspring of our fish. While we are eager to support the use of our fish for educational purposes, please note that our fish are covered by a variety of intellectual property rights. For specific details relating to our license agreement, please visit www.glofish.com/license.htm. In particular, please note that our license agreement includes the following points: "3) GloFish® fluorescent fish are licensed under one or more of the following United States Patents Nos. 7,135,613; 7,150,979 and 7,166,444, as well as other pending applications. 4) Intentional breeding and/or any sale, barter, or trade, of any offspring of GloFish® fluorescent ornamental fish is strictly prohibited. 5) Notwithstanding the foregoing, production of these fish is permitted for educational use by teachers and students in bona fide educational institutions, provided, however, that any sale, barter, or trade, of the offspring from such reproduction of these fish is strictly prohibited." As described in point number 5 (above) we only allow our fish to be reproduced in certain strictly educational related circumstances, provided the offspring are not sold, bartered, or traded. With that in mind, we ask for everyone's cooperation in respecting our intellectual property rights and not participating in any activity to the contrary. If you should have any questions regarding this license, please contact us by visiting www.glofish.com/contact.asp. In the hope of informing some of the other topics that have been debated regarding our fish, I would invite everyone to review the information that we have posted at www.glofish.com/about.asp and www.glofish.com/science.asp. This information includes everything from general information to detailed studies and risk assessments by federal and state agencies, as well as leading researchers in the area of ecological risk assessment. If you should have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at the web link listed above. I appreciate your cooperation and attention to this matter. Best regards, Alan Blake --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "abarker3wvuedu" <amandabstewart@...> wrote: > > To anyone that is interested, we are successfully breeding Zebrafish > "glo-fish" to study genetics, etc, as a student project here (Bethany > College, Bethany, WV). We have a variety of crosses that we have made > with a variety of "regular" and other colored glo- fish. I am unsure > about the patent's extension over "part" glo- fish > offspring, so right now we are not going to sell any fish produced, > BUT, I am more than willing to trade for other fish we can breed here. > We are breeding several different species, and wish to expand > the number of species, especially species with incomplete info about > fertility/sterility and spawning methods > > Fish we are wanting to work with now and would like to trade for, and > larger fry/juvenilles/etc are fine--adults aren't needed, but would > certainly speed us up: > -dwarf puffers > -bloody parrots > -purple passion danios > -glolite danios (DANIO CHOPRAE) > -clown rasbora > -galaxy rasbora > > Certainly--we're willing to try others as well, but I'd really like > some from this list. > > Right now, it appears that we will have some light "baby" pink zebras > and possibly some that will be bluish in color. We also hope to have > some green/yellow and it appears that some are developing some bright > gold patterns. I won't know the final color of this batch for a few > more weeks, but you are welcome to suggest a trade at any time. > > I know the ideas of this fish create much controversy, but I CAN tell > you all that this fish is fun for the students to work with and it's > getting more involved in the hobby--which couldn't be a bad thing! > > If anyone has any thoughts about the legalities of selling the fry, > let me know...it would really help us offset costs! > > Amanda Stewart, PhD > Dept. of Biology > Bethany College > Bethany WV > astewart@... > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26688	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Are test strips accurate ?

The API brand and Tetra-Laborette brand are two test tube type master test kits that I have and use. I think \\Steve// replied with his suggestion about the Kordon Accu-tru brand. And yes, your "little scientist" will like using the master test kits to see how the reagents change the color of the test water and then match up the colors with the charts to see the final results. If and when you get a test tube type master test kit, do a comparison between the strips and the test tube test and post if they come up the same or not. I'd be interested to see more "independent" testing done on the Jungle Brand since my experience and forum posts about the Mardel Brand have not been good. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Are test strips accurate ? WOW thanks for the info....I'll have to look into the test tube kits.....My little scientist will enjoy helping me with that..(he's 7) As for the strips I have they are the jungle brand quick dip 5.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What brand do you have? > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 10:48 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26689	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Re: Platies

When moving some fish from one tank to another,one of my serpae tetras accidently ended up in my platy tank.He killed all of my neon tetras and all the baby platys before I could figure out what was doing it.With the orange red and black,he looked so much like my platies,the only way I spotted him was to feed the others at the top,and he hung out at the bottom.Sneaky little devil,and he was smaller than some of my platies. I have one mickey mouse male and two sunset or marigold male platies in with my orange and yellow females.The babies are beautiful!!! I have given away over 30,and still have a nice tank.Sheri --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Wierd just last night our daughter brought home about 10-12 mickey > mouse platies and one bluish-green one from a friends tank. They came > from an unheated tank and are just this morning really swimming around. > Some are obviously pregnant, they had tooooo many in thier 20long > already. Geuss I need to read up a bit for our new lil finned friends. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26690	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/18/2008
Subject: Oscar with Ich

I have a two year old oscar,who has always been healthy,but has gotten the ich.Could it have been from feeding him snails? I kept pulling them out of my planted tank and giving them to him as a treat,he thought they were wonderful.But now he looks as if he has been sprinkled with sea salt,and has been very grumpy.He has been picking on his pleco who is much bigger than him,and he has never really been this aggresive,as the pleco usually let him have it right back.Should his water be acidic or alkaline? I moved him to a larger tank,and it is more acidic than his original tank was.Thanks,everyone.Sheri

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26691	From: starla	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: moss wall

--hi well I just looked into it, and found a really neat odea !!! uknow they sell these (egg crates ) online like aquabid fro rocks in your tank heavy ones, well i found another site that uses the same grates (they are plastic squre grates that you can buy at lowes for lighting tops_) they are 11.49 for a 2x4 ft section and its really easy to cut it to fit on your wall, well you can use suction cups, and zip ties, or fishing line, to attach the moss to the wall. !!! doesent this sound neat !!! I cant wait to try it !! please post pics up if you do !! . now other people just tie them to driftwood, or decorations in the tank, but I am loving the whole moss wall' idea, let me know what you think !! cheak out this auction, I would buy it for yourself at lowes thwo !! but the bottom pic shows you what I mean by full coverage !!! ck it out !! let me know what you guys think , I am new to this' group, hello im starla addicted2fish in many forums... LOL, later ~~- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "renee31477" <rentorr@...> wrote: > > Anyone have experience with moss walls? I am getting some Christmas > moss and plan to make a wall for my 10g... > > Anything special I need to know, do, consider?? > > thanks > > Renee >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26692	From: ED	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE

Nope no confusion ANY FLOURESCENT FISH MARKETED IN THE USA The production of > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fl The > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest Farms, > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to produce > and market fluorescent fish within the United States.uorescent > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, is > strictly prohibited. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > ED, > > You are confusing two quite different critters here. The fish are patented. There is no copyright on the fish. The name Glofish is a registered trademark, a different critter from patents and copyrights. > > See here for the difference between copyright and trademark: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Whats_the_differnce_between_copyright_and_tr ademark > > A less satisfactory answer exists for the difference between copyright and patent: > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_difference_between_copyright_and_pat ent > > For a short discussion of all three, see: http://www.lawmart.com/searches/difference.htm > > You can Google for more, if you wish. > > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE > > Why are GloFish® the only fluorescent fish that can be sold in the > United States? > Because fluorescent fish are unique, their sale is covered by a > substantial number of patents and pending patent applications. The production of > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fl The > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest Farms, > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to produce > and market fluorescent fish within the United States.uorescent > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, is > strictly prohibited. For additional information regarding GloFish® > fluorescent fish license details please click here. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26693	From: ED	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Yeppers wid peppers I actually READ these on the site --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "alan.blake21" <ablake@...> wrote: > > My name is Alan Blake; I am the CEO of Yorktown Technologies, L.P., > the exclusive licensor of GloFish® fluorescent fish. I am writing to > respond to Dr. Stewart's offer to "swap" offspring of our fish. > While we are eager to support the use of our fish for educational > purposes, please note that our fish are covered by a variety of > intellectual property rights. For specific details relating to our > license agreement, please visit www.glofish.com/license.htm. In > particular, please note that our license agreement includes the > following points: > > "3) GloFish® fluorescent fish are licensed under one or more of the > following United States Patents Nos. 7,135,613; 7,150,979 and > 7,166,444, as well as other pending applications. 4) Intentional > breeding and/or any sale, barter, or trade, of any offspring of > GloFish® fluorescent ornamental fish is strictly prohibited. 5) > Notwithstanding the foregoing, production of these fish is permitted > for educational use by teachers and students in bona fide educational > institutions, provided, however, that any sale, barter, or trade, of > the offspring from such reproduction of these fish is strictly > prohibited." > > As described in point number 5 (above) we only allow our fish to be > reproduced in certain strictly educational related circumstances, > provided the offspring are not sold, bartered, or traded. With that > in mind, we ask for everyone's cooperation in respecting our > intellectual property rights and not participating in any activity to > the contrary. If you should have any questions regarding this > license, please contact us by visiting www.glofish.com/contact.asp. > > In the hope of informing some of the other topics that have been > debated regarding our fish, I would invite everyone to review the > information that we have posted at www.glofish.com/about.asp and > www.glofish.com/science.asp. This information includes everything > from general information to detailed studies and risk assessments by > federal and state agencies, as well as leading researchers in the > area of ecological risk assessment. > > If you should have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact > us at the web link listed above. I appreciate your cooperation and > attention to this matter. > > Best regards, > Alan Blake > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "abarker3wvuedu" > <amandabstewart@> wrote: > > > > To anyone that is interested, we are successfully breeding > > Zebrafish "glo-fish" to study genetics, etc, as a student project > > here (Bethany College, Bethany, WV). We have a variety of crosses > > that we have made with a variety of "regular" and other colored glo- > > fish. I am unsure about the patent's extension over "part" glo- > fish > > offspring, so right now we are not going to sell any fish produced, > > BUT, I am more than willing to trade for other fish we can breed > > here. We are breeding several different species, and wish to > expand > > the number of species, especially species with incomplete info > about > > fertility/sterility and spawning methods > > > > Fish we are wanting to work with now and would like to trade for, > and > > larger fry/juvenilles/etc are fine--adults aren't needed, but would > > certainly speed us up: > > -dwarf puffers > > -bloody parrots > > -purple passion danios > > -glolite danios (DANIO CHOPRAE) > > -clown rasbora > > -galaxy rasbora > > > > Certainly--we're willing to try others as well, but I'd really like > > some from this list. > > > > Right now, it appears that we will have some light "baby" pink > zebras > > and possibly some that will be bluish in color. We also hope to > have > > some green/yellow and it appears that some are developing some > bright > > gold patterns. I won't know the final color of this batch for a > few > > more weeks, but you are welcome to suggest a trade at any time. > > > > I know the ideas of this fish create much controversy, but I CAN > tell > > you all that this fish is fun for the students to work with and > it's > > getting more involved in the hobby--which couldn't be a bad thing! > > > > If anyone has any thoughts about the legalities of selling the fry, > > let me know...it would really help us offset costs! > > > > Amanda Stewart, PhD > > Dept. of Biology > > Bethany College > > Bethany WV > > astewart@ > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26694	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Trained Fish!

I got this from a water gardening list I am on - pretty cool! http://www.fish-school.com/gallery.htm Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26695	From: ED	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available to SWAP

Well put Lenny, sometimes people DO NOT think in terms outside there little bubbles. The japanese plan 7-10yrs in advance for their country not our lil 4yr terms. Shortsitedness is rampant in our gov. and scientific community. The bottom line is $$$$. No true thought to the long term affects. Medically they are looking for treatments NOT cures. Till my Catahoula Leopard is pink and the size of a chihouhou I shall continue to 'cold shoulder' ALL genetic manipulation. Even the scientific community states they don't truelly know what they are doing. Just like doctors they 'practice', trial and error. Well I better let it go for now, like you this is a very touchy subject for me. More so than polotics. 'Sunshine and Gentle Breezes' --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Alan, > > As a business person myself, I respect your right to reach for the stars in > your quests for success in your business. Further, I support science's > constant quest for more knowledge using genetic testing, etc., especially > when it's used for the good of America and/or mankind in general... BUT... > yes, there's always a "BUT"... I don't see GloFish as fulfilling the end > product of being good for America or mankind and the potential ecosystem > side effects outweigh their "prettiness". > > Other than maybe giving someone on ecstasy a better "experience" by watching > their glofish swim around, I don't see the purpose in them... just like I > don't see the purpose in. Frankly, I wouldn't care less if the person on > ecstasy decided to go play in traffic and look at the headlights of oncoming > cars on the Interstate to enhance their "experience", except for the > possible injuries to the people in the cars and the possible damage they may > cause to the front end of a vehicle. LOL JUST KIDDING!!! [to those folks > out there who think I'm a meanie! ;-)] > > But seriously... it takes a very warped mindset, IMO, for someone to want to > genetically enhance a fish to may them day-glo colored. It's comparable to > some mad scientist wanting to create a hot pink poodle with an eight foot > long green and yellow tail, that meows. What's the point??? It's the Dr. > Frankenstein Complex to the Nth degree! > > And knowing these genetic mutants will one day be released into the wild, > either intentionally or accidentally, and that they aren't sterile, they > will be cross breeding with REAL zebra danio's creating a bunch of > half-glowing mutant fish swimming around in our public waterways. > > Maybe you all should have genetically enhanced the fish so that any you > distributed to the world would be sterile so there was no way for them to > cause ecosystem harm and that would also protect your patent much better so > people couldn't be breeding them and selling them illegally. Surely, you > cannot think people are not going to breed and sell them just because you > have an intellectual property patent... do you? Have you been locked up in > a lab for the past 10 years and missed what is happening in the digital > media world??? If Microsoft, Sony and all the other multi-billion dollar > software and digital media companies can't stop a teenager from illegally > downloading, copying and selling their so-called intellectual property, how > do you think Yorktown will stop someone from breeding and selling glofish? > > One last note! If you are planning on replying to glofish debates on a > regular basis, you better hire a couple of dozen assistants and start > replying in the thousands of other fish forums on the web... or maybe they > can just clone you a couple of dozen times. lol I've participated in this > same type of discussion/debate countless times over the past several years > and that's just on the few forums that I subscribe to on a regular basis. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of alan.blake21 > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zebrafish "Glo-Fish" breeding--babies available > to SWAP > > My name is Alan Blake; I am the CEO of Yorktown Technologies, L.P., the > exclusive licensor of GloFish® fluorescent fish. I am writing to respond to > Dr. Stewart's offer to "swap" offspring of our fish. > While we are eager to support the use of our fish for educational purposes, > please note that our fish are covered by a variety of intellectual property > rights. For specific details relating to our license agreement, please visit > www.glofish.com/license.htm. In particular, please note that our license > agreement includes the following points: > > "3) GloFish® fluorescent fish are licensed under one or more of the > following United States Patents Nos. 7,135,613; 7,150,979 and 7,166,444, as > well as other pending applications. 4) Intentional breeding and/or any sale, > barter, or trade, of any offspring of GloFish® fluorescent ornamental fish > is strictly prohibited. 5) Notwithstanding the foregoing, production of > these fish is permitted for educational use by teachers and students in bona > fide educational institutions, provided, however, that any sale, barter, or > trade, of the offspring from such reproduction of these fish is strictly > prohibited." > > As described in point number 5 (above) we only allow our fish to be > reproduced in certain strictly educational related circumstances, provided > the offspring are not sold, bartered, or traded. With that in mind, we ask > for everyone's cooperation in respecting our intellectual property rights > and not participating in any activity to the contrary. If you should have > any questions regarding this license, please contact us by visiting > www.glofish.com/contact.asp. > > In the hope of informing some of the other topics that have been debated > regarding our fish, I would invite everyone to review the information that > we have posted at www.glofish.com/about.asp and www.glofish.com/science.asp. > This information includes everything from general information to detailed > studies and risk assessments by federal and state agencies, as well as > leading researchers in the area of ecological risk assessment. > > If you should have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at > the web link listed above. I appreciate your cooperation and attention to > this matter. > > Best regards, > Alan Blake > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "abarker3wvuedu" > <amandabstewart@> wrote: > > > > To anyone that is interested, we are successfully breeding Zebrafish > > "glo-fish" to study genetics, etc, as a student project here (Bethany > > College, Bethany, WV). We have a variety of crosses that we have made > > with a variety of "regular" and other colored glo- fish. I am unsure > > about the patent's extension over "part" glo- > fish > > offspring, so right now we are not going to sell any fish produced, > > BUT, I am more than willing to trade for other fish we can breed here. > > We are breeding several different species, and wish to > expand > > the number of species, especially species with incomplete info > about > > fertility/sterility and spawning methods > > > > Fish we are wanting to work with now and would like to trade for, > and > > larger fry/juvenilles/etc are fine--adults aren't needed, but would > > certainly speed us up: > > -dwarf puffers > > -bloody parrots > > -purple passion danios > > -glolite danios (DANIO CHOPRAE) > > -clown rasbora > > -galaxy rasbora > > > > Certainly--we're willing to try others as well, but I'd really like > > some from this list. > > > > Right now, it appears that we will have some light "baby" pink > zebras > > and possibly some that will be bluish in color. We also hope to > have > > some green/yellow and it appears that some are developing some > bright > > gold patterns. I won't know the final color of this batch for a > few > > more weeks, but you are welcome to suggest a trade at any time. > > > > I know the ideas of this fish create much controversy, but I CAN > tell > > you all that this fish is fun for the students to work with and > it's > > getting more involved in the hobby--which couldn't be a bad thing! > > > > If anyone has any thoughts about the legalities of selling the fry, > > let me know...it would really help us offset costs! > > > > Amanda Stewart, PhD > > Dept. of Biology > > Bethany College > > Bethany WV > > astewart@ > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: 3/17/2008 > 10:48 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26696	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Another Cool Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rUPPGn_sEk&NR=1 Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26697	From: ED	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Platies

I believe the serpae is a skirted serpae very fancy fins, less agressive than others serpae's. He never bothered our angels while they were growing to move to the 55. We may have to move him when babies are present though. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sheriartist57" <sheriartist57@...> wrote: > > When moving some fish from one tank to another,one of my serpae tetras > accidently ended up in my platy tank.He killed all of my neon tetras > and all the baby platys before I could figure out what was doing > it.With the orange red and black,he looked so much like my platies,the > only way I spotted him was to feed the others at the top,and he hung > out at the bottom.Sneaky little devil,and he was smaller than some of > my platies. > I have one mickey mouse male and two sunset or marigold male platies > in with my orange and yellow females.The babies are beautiful!!! > I have given away over 30,and still have a nice tank.Sheri > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@> wrote: > > > > Wierd just last night our daughter brought home about 10-12 mickey > > mouse platies and one bluish-green one from a friends tank. They came > > from an unheated tank and are just this morning really swimming around. > > Some are obviously pregnant, they had tooooo many in thier 20long > > already. Geuss I need to read up a bit for our new lil finned friends. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26698	From: Wendie	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Trained Fish!

Years ago, I had a large oscar - about a foot in length - that could do a few tricks including jump out of the water for his food. I forgot to warn people when they took care of him and quite a few got a surprise! He could also pick out his food from a row of cans. I would put several different cans of food in front of the tank. I would touch each can and there would be no reaction until I touched his food can. Mind you, the cans were placed in different order whenever I did this. Somehow he could recognize his can. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Paula Brown To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:07 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Trained Fish! I got this from a water gardening list I am on - pretty cool! http://www.fish-school.com/gallery.htm Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26699	From: ED	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Trained Fish!

That's cool --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <browngip@...> wrote: > > I got this from a water gardening list I am on - pretty cool! > > http://www.fish-school.com/gallery.htm > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26700	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Glo-fish update

To all: How interesting that the folks of Yorktown Technologies have the time to read and post to this group! I find that fascinating. If anyone from this group would like to give them my phone number as well, I'd be glad to provide it. My direct email address is amandabstewart@... and at the college astewart@... Upon reading the post from Yorktown, note, and not a private email sent direct to me even though my email address is readily available... I have contacted the appropriate Glofish entities by direct, private email, and I will assure all on this list that my offer to swap the glos has been rescended. I examined the website several times, and did not see the "barter/trade" portion. I suppose it would be OK for me to swap fish I have purchased, but not those I have produced. I have never heard of any such thing where you cannot trade...perhaps the location I purchased the fish SHOULD HAVE A SIGN DOCUMENTING SUCH INFORMATION TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING TO OTHERS. I NEVER offered to sell or personally benefit in any way, and my goal was (1) education and (2) research directed, and only insofar as to stimulate interest in genetics and research in my students. It was NEVER EVER my purpose to cheat out anyone, just thought another high-end aquarist would help raise the older fry and document final color, etc. for our students' experiments. This has been such a can of worms--I've received several nice emails about the rudeness on this group (thanks to those people!) and some of the most rude emails I've ever received, all of which came from one individual--one who is known to be continually rude to other posters on this list. I find this particularly upsetting...many years ago, when I was an undergraduate, I worked as a biologist at what was one of the the PREMIER fish stores in the country. No matter who you were, what you looked like, etc, we treated everyone with decency and respect. Good luck in your fishy endeavors, and, back to the lab (permenantly) for me...I simply do not have the time to banter back and forth with those that have unending time to craft insulting emails in their quest to "help" others with their aquarium problems. Amanda B. Stewart, PhD

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26701	From: rglrtmmy	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: newbie that needs help...

Hi everyone. I just joined last night. My daughter needs to make a terrarium for a school project. However, we have two fire belly toads and I thought it would be cool to incorporate them into it and may even get her some extra credit not to mention it would just be much nicer for the toads than the sparse home they have now. I want to do this in a 10 gallon tank someone is giving me. How many plants, what kinds of plants, what do I use as the substrate, how do I incorporate their water dish but so that it is kind of hidden yet still easy to remove for water changes, etc etc............. And about on average what would I be looking at price wise. I guess what I mean is what is reasonable to expect to be spending on this project? Oh and one more question.........the tank is coming with a lid... can I just use that........will the toads be ok as far as ventilation or do I really need to get a screen? All your tips and advice would be greatly appreciated. Does anyone know what kind of plants these toads like? Thanks, Tammy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26702	From: Chris	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting

I GUESS out of 1975 people in this group noone can help me with my question??? WOW! No fresh water plant tanks in this group? Thanks for trying folks Chris C --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Corley" <ki4jpg@...> wrote: > > Hello all my name is Chris been doing some research on COMPACT bulbs. My > question is. > I have a ORBIT 48" light that I used on the saltwater tank. It has 2 65 watt > Sunpaq Duel daylight 6700k/10,000k, I know this would work for freshwater > plants but I want to change the other side of the light out due to they are > actinic lights which are no good for plants. Do I need to go with the > 6700/10,000 set up again or is there a Compact straight pin bulb that I > could use to get the most out of for my plants to use? I have a 75 gallon > tank in the process of setting it up. Any help with would be really helpful > please. I have read so much on the internet about lighting and everyone has > a different answer. I want the dark green lush look. I plan on using C02, > need to take the first steps first and get my lighting 100%. I am looking at > star moss too anyone no where to get that locally? > > Thanks > Chris > West Central Ga >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26703	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting

There are a few. Some of us, like me, are just still working out the bugs ourselves. I hope you get your answer. Kate Chris <ki4jpg@...> wrote: I GUESS out of 1975 people in this group noone can help me with my question??? WOW! No fresh water plant tanks in this group? Thanks for trying folks Chris C --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Corley" <ki4jpg@...> wrote: > > Hello all my name is Chris been doing some research on COMPACT bulbs. My > question is. > I have a ORBIT 48" light that I used on the saltwater tank. It has 2 65 watt > Sunpaq Duel daylight 6700k/10,000k, I know this would work for freshwater > plants but I want to change the other side of the light out due to they are > actinic lights which are no good for plants. Do I need to go with the > 6700/10,000 set up again or is there a Compact straight pin bulb that I > could use to get the most out of for my plants to use? I have a 75 gallon > tank in the process of setting it up. Any help with would be really helpful > please. I have read so much on the internet about lighting and everyone has > a different answer. I want the dark green lush look. I plan on using C02, > need to take the first steps first and get my lighting 100%. I am looking at > star moss too anyone no where to get that locally? > > Thanks > Chris > West Central Ga > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26704	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: newbie that needs help...

Hi Tammy, I'm sure you'll get some great info here but there are a lot of FBT owners in this group as well, in case you'd like a second resource. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheNaturalisticVivarium/?yguid=206410673 Good luck!! Kate rglrtmmy <rglrtmmy@...> wrote: Hi everyone. I just joined last night. My daughter needs to make a terrarium for a school project. However, we have two fire belly toads and I thought it would be cool to incorporate them into it and may even get her some extra credit not to mention it would just be much nicer for the toads than the sparse home they have now. I want to do this in a 10 gallon tank someone is giving me. How many plants, what kinds of plants, what do I use as the substrate, how do I incorporate their water dish but so that it is kind of hidden yet still easy to remove for water changes, etc etc............. And about on average what would I be looking at price wise. I guess what I mean is what is reasonable to expect to be spending on this project? Oh and one more question.........the tank is coming with a lid... can I just use that........will the toads be ok as far as ventilation or do I really need to get a screen? All your tips and advice would be greatly appreciated. Does anyone know what kind of plants these toads like? Thanks, Tammy --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26705	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting

Chris You are correct in your thoughts about lighting...everyone has their own ideas, thus, I'd suggest a trial and error approach--start with what you have and go from there so to speak As for the star moss...I've seen good prices on aquabid and ebay! Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <ki4jpg@...> wrote: > I GUESS out of 1975 people in this group noone can help me with my > question??? WOW! No fresh water plant tanks in this group? > > Thanks for trying folks > Chris C > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Corley" <ki4jpg@> wrote: > > > > Hello all my name is Chris been doing some research on COMPACT > bulbs. My > > question is. > > I have a ORBIT 48" light that I used on the saltwater tank. It has > 2 65 watt > > Sunpaq Duel daylight 6700k/10,000k, I know this would work for > freshwater > > plants but I want to change the other side of the light out due to > they are > > actinic lights which are no good for plants. Do I need to go with > the > > 6700/10,000 set up again or is there a Compact straight pin bulb > that I > > could use to get the most out of for my plants to use? I have a 75 > gallon > > tank in the process of setting it up. Any help with would be really > helpful > > please. I have read so much on the internet about lighting and > everyone has > > a different answer. I want the dark green lush look. I plan on > using C02, > > need to take the first steps first and get my lighting 100%. I am > looking at > > star moss too anyone no where to get that locally? > > > > Thanks > > Chris > > West Central Ga > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26706	From: ED	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish update

I do believe I advised you to contact them to see if they might be interested in the 'blues' you have. As for contacting them, I never had the urge. I used to use photo slide shipping containers to get african violet leaves through customs for Australia. So I was advising for you to be carefull. I myself have broken the law. Good luck --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "abarker3wvuedu" <amandabstewart@...> wrote: > > To all: > > How interesting that the folks of Yorktown Technologies have the time > to read and post to this group! I find that fascinating. If anyone > from this group would like to give them my phone number as well, I'd > be glad to provide it. My direct email address is > amandabstewart@... and at the college astewart@... > > Upon reading the post from Yorktown, note, and not a private email > sent direct to me even though my email address is readily available... > > I have contacted the appropriate Glofish entities by direct, private > email, and I will assure all on this list that my offer to swap the > glos has been rescended. > > I examined the website several times, and did not see > the "barter/trade" portion. I suppose it would be OK for me to swap > fish I have purchased, but not those I have produced. I have never > heard of any such thing where you cannot trade...perhaps the location > I purchased the fish SHOULD HAVE A SIGN DOCUMENTING SUCH INFORMATION > TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING TO OTHERS. > > I NEVER offered to sell or personally benefit in any way, and my goal > was (1) education and (2) research directed, and only insofar as to > stimulate interest in genetics and research in my students. > > It was NEVER EVER my purpose to cheat out anyone, just thought > another high-end aquarist would help raise the older fry and document > final color, etc. for our students' experiments. > > This has been such a can of worms--I've received several nice emails > about the rudeness on this group (thanks to those people!) and some > of the most rude emails I've ever received, all of which came from > one individual--one who is known to be continually rude to other > posters on this list. > > I find this particularly upsetting...many years ago, when I was an > undergraduate, I worked as a biologist at what was one of the the > PREMIER fish stores in the country. No matter who you were, what you > looked like, etc, we treated everyone with decency and respect. > > Good luck in your fishy endeavors, and, back to the lab (permenantly) > for me...I simply do not have the time to banter back and forth with > those that have unending time to craft insulting emails in their > quest to "help" others with their aquarium problems. > > > Amanda B. Stewart, PhD >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26707	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glo-fish update

Ed--I surely wasn't referring to you. I didn't want to do anything wrong at all...just thought it would help for a variety of reasons. I'll tell them about the "blues" once I can see what the final color will be---they are still looking bluish, but I can't be sure Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > I do believe I advised you to contact them to see if they might be > interested in the 'blues' you have. As for contacting them, I never > had the urge. I used to use photo slide shipping containers to get > african violet leaves through customs for Australia. So I was > advising for you to be carefull. I myself have broken the law. > Good luck > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "abarker3wvuedu" > <amandabstewart@> wrote: > > > > To all: > > > > How interesting that the folks of Yorktown Technologies have the > time > > to read and post to this group! I find that fascinating. If anyone > > from this group would like to give them my phone number as well, > I'd > > be glad to provide it. My direct email address is > > amandabstewart@ and at the college astewart@ > > > > Upon reading the post from Yorktown, note, and not a private email > > sent direct to me even though my email address is readily > available... > > > > I have contacted the appropriate Glofish entities by direct, > private > > email, and I will assure all on this list that my offer to swap the > > glos has been rescended. > > > > I examined the website several times, and did not see > > the "barter/trade" portion. I suppose it would be OK for me to > swap > > fish I have purchased, but not those I have produced. I have never > > heard of any such thing where you cannot trade...perhaps the > location > > I purchased the fish SHOULD HAVE A SIGN DOCUMENTING SUCH > INFORMATION > > TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING TO OTHERS. > > > > I NEVER offered to sell or personally benefit in any way, and my > goal > > was (1) education and (2) research directed, and only insofar as to > > stimulate interest in genetics and research in my students. > > > > It was NEVER EVER my purpose to cheat out anyone, just thought > > another high-end aquarist would help raise the older fry and > document > > final color, etc. for our students' experiments. > > > > This has been such a can of worms--I've received several nice > emails > > about the rudeness on this group (thanks to those people!) and some > > of the most rude emails I've ever received, all of which came from > > one individual--one who is known to be continually rude to other > > posters on this list. > > > > I find this particularly upsetting...many years ago, when I was an > > undergraduate, I worked as a biologist at what was one of the the > > PREMIER fish stores in the country. No matter who you were, what > you > > looked like, etc, we treated everyone with decency and respect. > > > > Good luck in your fishy endeavors, and, back to the lab > (permenantly) > > for me...I simply do not have the time to banter back and forth > with > > those that have unending time to craft insulting emails in their > > quest to "help" others with their aquarium problems. > > > > > > Amanda B. Stewart, PhD > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26708	From: rglrtmmy@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: newbie that needs help...

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have been searching for many days, many many hours, on this subject. I hope I am getting close to some clarity. Tammy **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26709	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting

In a message dated 3/19/2008 2:38:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ki4jpg@... writes: LOL Chris, but your question was way too complicated for me. I have read a few books that went into great detail about lighting/plants and you might want to check them out while you wait for the group's lighting or plant experts to get back to you. Barbara I GUESS out of 1975 people in this group noone can help me with my question??? WOW! No fresh water plant tanks in this group? Thanks for trying folks Chris C --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Corley" <ki4jpg@...> wrote: > > Hello all my name is Chris been doing some research on COMPACT bulbs. My > question is. > I have a ORBIT 48" light that I used on the saltwater tank. It has 2 65 watt > Sunpaq Duel daylight 6700k/10,000k, I know this would work for freshwater > plants but I want to change the other side of the light out due to they are > actinic lights which are no good for plants. Do I need to go with the > 6700/10,000 set up again or is there a Compact straight pin bulb that I > could use to get the most out of for my plants to use? I have a 75 gallon > tank in the process of setting it up. Any help with would be really helpful > please. I have read so much on the internet about lighting and everyone has > a different answer. I want the dark green lush look. I plan on using C02, > need to take the first steps first and get my lighting 100%. I am looking at > star moss too anyone no where to get that locally? > > Thanks > Chris > West Central Ga **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26710	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting

Your question was a lot more technical than probably 1971 of us could help with, and the other 4 must be busy :-) Usually "regular" questions get answered quickly here... Carmen On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 2:17 PM, Chris <ki4jpg@...> wrote: > > > > > I GUESS out of 1975 people in this group noone can help me with my > question??? WOW! No fresh water plant tanks in this group? > > Thanks for trying folks > Chris C

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26711	From: Melissa	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Platy Varieties & Pics

Hey everyone, I have a quick question. I have several different varieties of platies that I am trying to identify. I've been internet searching and that hasn't helped me any so I figured maybe you guys know some good websites to try. I know I have a gold/yellow mickey mouse, a white mickey mouse, and a red wag one. Those I can identify really quickly, but I'm having trouble with 2 others. One is completely orange, with the orange color fading from a lighter to a somewhat darker shade. The other one is a pale color maybe white with a heavy smattering of dark blue or blackish dots which basically cover the entire sides of the fish. I've been looking for pictures with varietal names attached but I haven't found any yet. I can either find pics but no names, or names with no pics. Apparantly all platies are named under the scientific name of Xiphophorus maculatus without distinction of colors. Does anyone know of a good site with both pics and names? Thanks Melissa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26712	From: Shelley Kate Coffman	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Fuzz on driftwood

I have done a 1/3 PWC every other day, so far nothing changed the fuzz. My concern isn't the fuzz but the way the angels and swordtails are acting. Close to the top of the tank. PH is ranging around 7.2, I am testing other parameters at the local shop. Now one of the angels has a couple of white things, dots, (resembles eggspots on male ciclids) and seemed to have a string hanging off of one of the lower long fins. No other fish has the appearance of ick or other disease. Does it hurt plants to treat tanks with meds? Or would it be best to quarenteen the one angel?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26713	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Fuzz on driftwood

There seems to be a lot going on in your tank... I googled ich in a planted tank and a fellow writes about some success with a temperature increase: http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.9908/msg00017.html good luck! p On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 8:17 PM, Shelley Kate Coffman <ky_dream_catcher05@...> wrote: > > > > > I have done a 1/3 PWC every other day, so far nothing changed the > fuzz. My concern isn't the fuzz but the way the angels and swordtails > are acting. Close to the top of the tank. PH is ranging around 7.2, I > am testing other parameters at the local shop. Now one of the angels > has a couple of white things, dots, (resembles eggspots on male > ciclids) and seemed to have a string hanging off of one of the lower > long fins. No other fish has the appearance of ick or other disease. > Does it hurt plants to treat tanks with meds? Or would it be best to > quarenteen the one angel? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26714	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Oscar with Ich

Hi Sheri, Did the Ich start after you moved him from one tank to the other? In the future, you can't just move a fish without acclimating it slowly to the water parameters of the new tank. This is a stressor that can cause a fishes immune system to falter. It's also something that seems to trigger an Ich outbreak especially with a drastic water temperature change. Here's a very good article on the treatment of Ich, especially for cichlids. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php As far as preferred water parameters, they tend to prefer a softer water with a neutral pH but can acclimate to other water parameters... it's just not good to move a fish from one type of water to another without an acclimation period... the greater the difference in water, the longer acclimation period. Here's a few good profiles on Oscars for more info. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=531 http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile16.html http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/cichlids/oscar.html With a pleco (if a common) and an oscar in the same tank, it should be a very BIG tank, well over 100G++, with plenty of filtration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oscar with Ich I have a two year old oscar,who has always been healthy,but has gotten the ich.Could it have been from feeding him snails? I kept pulling them out of my planted tank and giving them to him as a treat,he thought they were wonderful.But now he looks as if he has been sprinkled with sea salt,and has been very grumpy.He has been picking on his pleco who is much bigger than him,and he has never really been this aggresive,as the pleco usually let him have it right back.Should his water be acidic or alkaline? I moved him to a larger tank,and it is more acidic than his original tank was.Thanks,everyone.Sheri No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1334 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:52 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26715	From: Chris Corley	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting

Sorry guys for hard question. I have now figured it out what light to go with on the other side that would be this light: http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/PROD/PlugInPLL/F55BX-AR-FS or at least this is what I am going to use. You can't beat the price and from what I have gather plants will eat it up. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carmen H" <eskielists@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: lighting Your question was a lot more technical than probably 1971 of us could help with, and the other 4 must be busy :-) Usually "regular" questions get answered quickly here... Carmen On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 2:17 PM, Chris <ki4jpg@...> wrote: > > > > > I GUESS out of 1975 people in this group noone can help me with my > question??? WOW! No fresh water plant tanks in this group? > > Thanks for trying folks > Chris C ======================================================================== Groups related to AquaticLife ======================================================================== tropicalfishclub (254 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr0&sec=recg Fish/Tropical Fish: Welcome! Here, you can post questions (and answers... UniQuaria (224 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr1&sec=recg Hobbies/Aquariums: Join an extensive international network of avid fr... Saltwater_Fish_and_Reef_Aquariums (101 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Saltwater_Fish_and_Reef_Aquariums?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr2&sec=recg Aquariums/Salt Water Aquariums: Photo by Jason "Emerald Crab (Mithrax sculptus)" C... sunriseandsunset (92 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sunriseandsunset?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr3&sec=recg Movies/Independent: This group is for fans of the Richard Linklater mo... aquaria-freshwater (75 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaria-freshwater?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr4&sec=recg Animals/Marine Life: Open discussion for people with aquariums to commu... ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26716	From: alan.blake21	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: GloFish Discussion

First, I want to thank Dr. Stewart for her recent post. While I am sure that she had nothing but the best intentions, and we very much support and appreciate her work with our fish in educational endeavors, we thought it was important to leave a very clear record regarding the restrictions related to the breeding of our fish. On a more general note, I appreciate everyone's recent comments on the GloFish® issue. Because we have posted extensive information on our website regarding the ecological safety and general background of our fish, we typically do not leave posts in these types of forums. However, in response to various concerns that have been voiced, I would like to make clear that we are very supportive of an open and informed debate, and readily accept that certain people have differences of opinion in terms of the benefit, risks, and ethics of marketing genetically modified organisms. At the same time, I hope we can all agree that, while people are entitled to their own opinions, they are not entitled to their own facts. With that in mind, I would simply state that many of the assertions and statements regarding the ecological risks of our fish are unsupported and, in fact, clearly contradicted, by decades of real-world experience with zebrafish, as well as years of research specifically regarding our fluorescent zebrafish. Rather than engage in a point by point debate, I would simply encourage folks to visit our website, beginning with www.glofish.com/about.asp and www.glofish.com/science.asp. In particular, I invite everyone to review the information regarding the background of our fish (i.e., originally developed to detect water toxins) and their ecological safety, as confirmed by multiple state and federal agencies and unambiguously documented in multiple risk assessments from world-renowned researchers, as supported by a variety of comprehensive studies. In addition, we have posted our perspective on the very important ethical issues surrounding the marketing of biotech animals at www.glofish.com/ethics.asp. We have worked tirelessly to ensure that our fish are as safe for the environment as wild-type zebrafish and to transparently communicate the results of our research in this area to the public. As I hope everyone can agree, ignoring this information (and even resorting to personal insults) will do little to advance the important discussion surrounding the benefits, risks, and ethics of marketing biotech animals. While there is much more to be discussed on this topic, I trust people will understand if we allow this post and our web site to be the last word from our company on this subject for the time being. Thank you again to everyone who has posted on this topic. Sincerely, Alan Blake Chief Executive Officer Yorktown Technologies, L.P.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26717	From: Chris Corley	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting

Thanks for trying. I have figured it out. Thanks again Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: lighting In a message dated 3/19/2008 2:38:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ki4jpg@... writes: LOL Chris, but your question was way too complicated for me. I have read a few books that went into great detail about lighting/plants and you might want to check them out while you wait for the group's lighting or plant experts to get back to you. Barbara I GUESS out of 1975 people in this group noone can help me with my question??? WOW! No fresh water plant tanks in this group? Thanks for trying folks Chris C --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Corley" <ki4jpg@...> wrote: > > Hello all my name is Chris been doing some research on COMPACT bulbs. My > question is. > I have a ORBIT 48" light that I used on the saltwater tank. It has 2 65 watt > Sunpaq Duel daylight 6700k/10,000k, I know this would work for freshwater > plants but I want to change the other side of the light out due to they are > actinic lights which are no good for plants. Do I need to go with the > 6700/10,000 set up again or is there a Compact straight pin bulb that I > could use to get the most out of for my plants to use? I have a 75 gallon > tank in the process of setting it up. Any help with would be really helpful > please. I have read so much on the internet about lighting and everyone has > a different answer. I want the dark green lush look. I plan on using C02, > need to take the first steps first and get my lighting 100%. I am looking at > star moss too anyone no where to get that locally? > > Thanks > Chris > West Central Ga **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ======================================================================== Groups related to AquaticLife ======================================================================== tropicalfishclub (254 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr0&sec=recg Fish/Tropical Fish: Welcome! Here, you can post questions (and answers... UniQuaria (224 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr1&sec=recg Hobbies/Aquariums: Join an extensive international network of avid fr... Saltwater_Fish_and_Reef_Aquariums (101 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Saltwater_Fish_and_Reef_Aquariums?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr2&sec=recg Aquariums/Salt Water Aquariums: Photo by Jason "Emerald Crab (Mithrax sculptus)" C... sunriseandsunset (92 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sunriseandsunset?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr3&sec=recg Movies/Independent: This group is for fans of the Richard Linklater mo... aquaria-freshwater (75 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaria-freshwater?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr4&sec=recg Animals/Marine Life: Open discussion for people with aquariums to commu... ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Varieties & Pics

Like goldfish and many other breeds, platies have been the victims of multiple generations of inbreeding/crossbreeding to achieve all of the different colors/variations. Some of yours could just be "mutts" from the further intentional or unintentional inbreeding/crossbreeding. That's one of the reasons why there are just a type of goldfish called "fancy calico" now. It's a nice term for what the goldfish world call the "mutts". :-D I don't know of a specialty site for platies but there may be one out there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy Varieties & Pics Hey everyone, I have a quick question. I have several different varieties of platies that I am trying to identify. I've been internet searching and that hasn't helped me any so I figured maybe you guys know some good websites to try. I know I have a gold/yellow mickey mouse, a white mickey mouse, and a red wag one. Those I can identify really quickly, but I'm having trouble with 2 others. One is completely orange, with the orange color fading from a lighter to a somewhat darker shade. The other one is a pale color maybe white with a heavy smattering of dark blue or blackish dots which basically cover the entire sides of the fish. I've been looking for pictures with varietal names attached but I haven't found any yet. I can either find pics but no names, or names with no pics. Apparantly all platies are named under the scientific name of Xiphophorus maculatus without distinction of colors. Does anyone know of a good site with both pics and names? Thanks Melissa No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1334 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:52 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26719	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Ok, I'm really confused now...

My fish are not brown...I thought they had brown on them. My long finned black skirt tetra changes colors. His long white fins (but not his tail) turn black sometimes. Question#1:Is this normal? Like a camouflage or reaction to stress or something? I checked all the levels in all three tanks. All the tanks have filters appropriate for their size, air bubbles, heaters, and lights. Here are my levels and the fish in them (so maybe someone can tell me if the pH's and ammonias and everything are ok).: The one with the long finned black skirt tetra (10 gallon rectangular) has .50 ammonia, 7.5 pH, 0 nitrite, and 80 nitrate. This tank also has a blue/three spot gourami in it. My tank that has been battling Ich (20 gallon rectangular) has .50 ammonia, 6.5 pH, 0 nitrite, and 40 nitrate. The one fish that had the worst case of what I believe to be Ich has almost no white left on him. GO SALT AND HIGHER TEMP!!! Going to leave it going like it is for like another week...hope the babies will tolerate it. This tank has 4 adult swordtails, about 20 baby swordtails that are two days old, 2 adult black mollies, 2 juvenile dalmation mollies, 1 sunset mickey mouse platy, 1 regular sunset platy, 2 red wag platys, 1 powder blue dwarf gourami, and one chinese algae eater. My last tank (10 gallon tall hexagon) has .25 ammonia, 6.5 pH, 0 nitrite, and 80 nitrate. This tank has 1 adult white molly, 1 juvenile dalmation molly, 2 neon tetras, 2 bright orange GLOfish, 2 bright yellow GLOfish, and one chinese algae eater. I think my mickey mouse platy is the only female platy...and the other 3 platys were chasing it and it was trying to keep them away from it. Question#2:If it is the only female, is this a mating thing? Am I going to have more babies? I noticed my two yellow GLOfish are kinda fat compared to how they looked a few days ago. Question#3:Might they be pregnant by the orange ones? Question#4:So, are my levels ok? I don't know the temp on my 10 gallon rectangular because it has a heater that is not adjustable and I don't have any kind of thermometer thing on it. The temp on my 10 gallon hexagon is like 76- 78. The temp on my 20 gallon is 84 (we're fighting Ich, so upped the temp and added salt). I'm hoping one of our resident experts might have the time to read all this and tell me how I'm doing :-) The baby swordtails are eating crushed up flake food...was thinking of adding really crushed up freeze dried blood worms. Question#5:Is that ok? I also have freeze dried shrimp things that look like maggots...can I crush them up and give them to the babies too? Oh, speaking of which. My friend has a 90 gallon aquarium and a plethera of little freshwater fish in there (mollies, bettas, tetras, swordtails, etc.). She feeds flake food most of the time. Yesterday, she decided to give them some freeze dried blood worms...all seven of her neon tetras and one (the only) juvenile betta died. She is worried they choked on the worms... Question#6:Could that be right? That is the ONLY thing she has done different lately. And none of the other fish have died or look sick or anything. Alright, hope that wasn't TOO awfully long...but I know it was... Thanks :-) anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26720	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting

I passed on your question because I would have had a number of questions to ask you about your hood set-up, which I am not familiar. That, plus I have been working 12-16 per day lately, which doesn't leave me much room for the pursuit of "recreational" activities. I'm looking forward to the NEC event in April, where I will have at least one well deserved day off (except for what should be a quick stop at a client's office on my way up to the NEC. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 2:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: lighting I GUESS out of 1975 people in this group noone can help me with my question??? WOW! No fresh water plant tanks in this group? Thanks for trying folks Chris C --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Corley" <ki4jpg@...> wrote: > > Hello all my name is Chris been doing some research on COMPACT bulbs. My > question is. > I have a ORBIT 48" light that I used on the saltwater tank. It has 2 65 watt > Sunpaq Duel daylight 6700k/10,000k, I know this would work for freshwater > plants but I want to change the other side of the light out due to they are > actinic lights which are no good for plants. Do I need to go with the > 6700/10,000 set up again or is there a Compact straight pin bulb that I > could use to get the most out of for my plants to use? I have a 75 gallon > tank in the process of setting it up. Any help with would be really helpful > please. I have read so much on the internet about lighting and everyone has > a different answer. I want the dark green lush look. I plan on using C02, > need to take the first steps first and get my lighting 100%. I am looking at > star moss too anyone no where to get that locally? > > Thanks > Chris > West Central Ga > ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26721	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE

ED, You still do not understand. The fish are not copyrighted. They cannot be copyrighted. The fish are patented, an entirely different protection for the owners of the patent vs. owners of a copyright. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 8:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE Nope no confusion ANY FLOURESCENT FISH MARKETED IN THE USA The production of > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fl The > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest Farms, > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to produce > and market fluorescent fish within the United States.uorescent > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, is > strictly prohibited. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > ED, > > You are confusing two quite different critters here. The fish are patented. There is no copyright on the fish. The name Glofish is a registered trademark, a different critter from patents and copyrights. > > See here for the difference between copyright and trademark: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Whats_the_differnce_between_copyright_and_tr ademark > > A less satisfactory answer exists for the difference between copyright and patent: > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_difference_between_copyright_and_pat ent > > For a short discussion of all three, see: http://www.lawmart.com/searches/difference.htm > > You can Google for more, if you wish. > > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE > > Why are GloFish® the only fluorescent fish that can be sold in the > United States? > Because fluorescent fish are unique, their sale is covered by a > substantial number of patents and pending patent applications. The production of > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fl The > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest Farms, > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to produce > and market fluorescent fish within the United States.uorescent > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, is > strictly prohibited. For additional information regarding GloFish® > fluorescent fish license details please click here. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26722	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Varieties & Pics

Hey back to you Mellisa, For starters, ALL Platies ARE NOT named under the scientific name of Xiphophorus maculatus. At last count there were 23 different Xiphophorus species, some Platies and some Swordtails. Most of the other Xiphophorus species, such as the Spiketail Platy (Xiphophorus xiphidium) are rarely, if ever, seen in the hobby. The same too, goes for such other wild species as the Rio Aloyac Platy (X. andersi) and the endangered (Lake)-Catemaco Platy (X. milleri). Then too, even such hybrids as Xiphopohorus roseni are seldom seen outside of Livebearer enthusiast's tanks. Most of the wild species are somewhat drab in color, even though, they are quite interesting. The same was true with the wild X. maculatus until it was domesticated. The two most common species in the hobby (and most colorful because of hybridizing) are X. maculatus and X. variatus. They're the most popular species in the hobby because of their many different man-made color variations first produced well over 70 years ago by crossing them with Swordtails (X. helleri) and then over the years, to each other to subsequently derive the present assortment of color strains now available -- and the only reason why they're so popular in the hobby, deservedly so. By your descriptions, your orange-colored Platy (fading from a lighter to a somewhat darker shade), is most probably a "Sunset" Xiphophorus variatus -- especially if its somewhat more elongated than the previous fish. Your pale (pale blue?) Platy with its heavy smattering of dark blue and/or black spots (dots) sounds to be a "Blue" Variatus Platy (X. variatus - blue strain). This is without actually seeing your fish, but the descriptions fit (and do not fit any others). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <waterlogged1214@...> wrote: > > Hey everyone, I have a quick question. I have several different > varieties of platies that I am trying to identify. I've been internet > searching and that hasn't helped me any so I figured maybe you guys > know some good websites to try. I know I have a gold/yellow mickey > mouse, a white mickey mouse, and a red wag one. Those I can identify > really quickly, but I'm having trouble with 2 others. One is > completely orange, with the orange color fading from a lighter to a > somewhat darker shade. The other one is a pale color maybe white with > a heavy smattering of dark blue or blackish dots which basically cover > the entire sides of the fish. I've been looking for pictures with > varietal names attached but I haven't found any yet. I can either find > pics but no names, or names with no pics. Apparantly all platies are > named under the scientific name of Xiphophorus maculatus without > distinction of colors. Does anyone know of a good site with both pics > and names? Thanks Melissa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26723	From: Chris Corley	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting

No problem Steve I have gotten it taken care of. Chris C' ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: lighting I passed on your question because I would have had a number of questions to ask you about your hood set-up, which I am not familiar. That, plus I have been working 12-16 per day lately, which doesn't leave me much room for the pursuit of "recreational" activities. I'm looking forward to the NEC event in April, where I will have at least one well deserved day off (except for what should be a quick stop at a client's office on my way up to the NEC. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 2:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: lighting I GUESS out of 1975 people in this group noone can help me with my question??? WOW! No fresh water plant tanks in this group? Thanks for trying folks Chris C --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Corley" <ki4jpg@...> wrote: > > Hello all my name is Chris been doing some research on COMPACT bulbs. My > question is. > I have a ORBIT 48" light that I used on the saltwater tank. It has 2 65 watt > Sunpaq Duel daylight 6700k/10,000k, I know this would work for freshwater > plants but I want to change the other side of the light out due to they are > actinic lights which are no good for plants. Do I need to go with the > 6700/10,000 set up again or is there a Compact straight pin bulb that I > could use to get the most out of for my plants to use? I have a 75 gallon > tank in the process of setting it up. Any help with would be really helpful > please. I have read so much on the internet about lighting and everyone has > a different answer. I want the dark green lush look. I plan on using C02, > need to take the first steps first and get my lighting 100%. I am looking at > star moss too anyone no where to get that locally? > > Thanks > Chris > West Central Ga > ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I'm really confused now...

Answer to Q-1: I think most tropical fish will change colors to some degree when stressed. These stressors could be a predator, health issues, breeding related, water quality, etc. The first tank listed (a 10G) has an elevated ammonia and nitrate level and is technically overstocked since a blue gourami needs a much larger tank since they are supposed to grow to 6" long and are larger body massed fish compared to torpedo shaped fish. The second tank listed (a 20G) also has an elevated ammonia level and the pH is a full 1.0 lower than the 10G above. I'm presuming you use the same source water so I'm not sure why it's so much lower. It is also overstocked, primarily due to the CAE and all of the babies that will need to be rehomed. The third tank listed (a 10G) also has an elevated ammonia and nitrate level but has the lower pH like the second tank. It is also overstocked due to the CAE. Also, the zebra danios (GLOfish) should be in a larger tank since they are big swimmers. Here's an article on suggesting stocking levels and fish for a 10G tank since most fish are not suitable for a 10G. What is your tap/source water baseline for all of your tests? You could have a high level of ammonia in your tap/source water which is keeping the levels high in the tanks if you are doing frequent PWC's but your biofiltration (N-bacteria) should still bring this ammonia down to zero in a very short time and almost instantly for most people who do have some level of ammonia in their tap water as a result of chloramine. The good news is you have a low pH so the ammonia is not toxic at that level. This page explains more on how pH and temperature affects ammonia toxicity. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html I'm not sure if something in the first tank is leaching into the water keeping the pH at 7.5 or if something in the other two are causing the pH to be lower at 6.5. Excess detritus and overstocked conditions can certainly lead to higher CO2 levels which will result in a lower pH. Do you have test results for KH and GH? Answer #2 - It could be part of the mating ritual. If you have 3 males and only 1 female, the female will likely not live a long time due to the excessive harassment from the males. It's best to have at least two females for each male in most situations so that the harassment is spread out more. Answer #3 - GLOfish are Zebra Danios and do not get pregnant like your livebearers. They are egg scatterers so the female will scatter her eggs and the males will then attempt to fertilize the eggs. Females are fatter as a general rule and they can swell up a little prior to egg laying. Answer #4 - Answered above. Answer #5 - This page http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm has LOTS of info about livebearers in general and more specific info about platys near the bottom of the page. This is one thing it says about feeding the fry... "... Start feeding with crushed flakes and Artemia nauplii..." Answer #6 - I doubt that they choked on the blood worms but I guess anything is possible. I would suspect something was wrong with the food if I had such a large fish kill after feeding a particular food product. If the food was contaminated somehow, it would affect smaller fish like the juvi betta and neon tetras faster than it would affect larger fish. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 8:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ok, I'm really confused now... My fish are not brown...I thought they had brown on them. My long finned black skirt tetra changes colors. His long white fins (but not his tail) turn black sometimes. Question#1:Is this normal? Like a camouflage or reaction to stress or something? I checked all the levels in all three tanks. All the tanks have filters appropriate for their size, air bubbles, heaters, and lights. Here are my levels and the fish in them (so maybe someone can tell me if the pH's and ammonias and everything are ok).: The one with the long finned black skirt tetra (10 gallon rectangular) has .50 ammonia, 7.5 pH, 0 nitrite, and 80 nitrate. This tank also has a blue/three spot gourami in it. My tank that has been battling Ich (20 gallon rectangular) has .50 ammonia, 6.5 pH, 0 nitrite, and 40 nitrate. The one fish that had the worst case of what I believe to be Ich has almost no white left on him. GO SALT AND HIGHER TEMP!!! Going to leave it going like it is for like another week...hope the babies will tolerate it. This tank has 4 adult swordtails, about 20 baby swordtails that are two days old, 2 adult black mollies, 2 juvenile dalmation mollies, 1 sunset mickey mouse platy, 1 regular sunset platy, 2 red wag platys, 1 powder blue dwarf gourami, and one chinese algae eater. My last tank (10 gallon tall hexagon) has .25 ammonia, 6.5 pH, 0 nitrite, and 80 nitrate. This tank has 1 adult white molly, 1 juvenile dalmation molly, 2 neon tetras, 2 bright orange GLOfish, 2 bright yellow GLOfish, and one chinese algae eater. I think my mickey mouse platy is the only female platy...and the other 3 platys were chasing it and it was trying to keep them away from it. Question#2:If it is the only female, is this a mating thing? Am I going to have more babies? I noticed my two yellow GLOfish are kinda fat compared to how they looked a few days ago. Question#3:Might they be pregnant by the orange ones? Question#4:So, are my levels ok? I don't know the temp on my 10 gallon rectangular because it has a heater that is not adjustable and I don't have any kind of thermometer thing on it. The temp on my 10 gallon hexagon is like 76- 78. The temp on my 20 gallon is 84 (we're fighting Ich, so upped the temp and added salt). I'm hoping one of our resident experts might have the time to read all this and tell me how I'm doing :-) The baby swordtails are eating crushed up flake food...was thinking of adding really crushed up freeze dried blood worms. Question#5:Is that ok? I also have freeze dried shrimp things that look like maggots...can I crush them up and give them to the babies too? Oh, speaking of which. My friend has a 90 gallon aquarium and a plethera of little freshwater fish in there (mollies, bettas, tetras, swordtails, etc.). She feeds flake food most of the time. Yesterday, she decided to give them some freeze dried blood worms...all seven of her neon tetras and one (the only) juvenile betta died. She is worried they choked on the worms... Question#6:Could that be right? That is the ONLY thing she has done different lately. And none of the other fish have died or look sick or anything. Alright, hope that wasn't TOO awfully long...but I know it was... Thanks :-) anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1334 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:52 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26725	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE

In simple terms, the name "Glofish" is trademarked (similar to a copyright but actually registered with a governmental agency where copyrighted materials do not have to be registered to enjoy copyright legal status) and the intellectual property and processes to genetically mutate (OK.. enhance, which is just a nice word for mutate ;-)) the fish is patented. Everything I write on my blog is copyrighted to me but I do not have any trademarks. Maybe I should trademark "GoldLenny" for when I become famous one day. I wouldn't want the James Bond movie producers to use my name without my permission... I can see it now, "GoldLenny" as the evil villain, much like "Gold Finger" was and who knows... maybe they'll write me a song to go with it. As long as they let me be in the video with the Bond babes, I'm all for it! LOL (Halle... call me, baby!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE ED, You still do not understand. The fish are not copyrighted. They cannot be copyrighted. The fish are patented, an entirely different protection for the owners of the patent vs. owners of a copyright. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 8:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE Nope no confusion ANY FLOURESCENT FISH MARKETED IN THE USA The production of > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fl The > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest Farms, > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to produce > and market fluorescent fish within the United States.uorescent fish > not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, is > strictly prohibited. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > ED, > > You are confusing two quite different critters here. The fish are patented. There is no copyright on the fish. The name Glofish is a registered trademark, a different critter from patents and copyrights. > > See here for the difference between copyright and trademark: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Whats_the_differnce_between_copyright_and_tr <http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Whats_the_differnce_between_copyright_and_tr> ademark > > A less satisfactory answer exists for the difference between copyright and patent: > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_difference_between_copyright_and_pat <http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_difference_between_copyright_and_pat> ent > > For a short discussion of all three, see: http://www.lawmart.com/searches/difference.htm <http://www.lawmart.com/searches/difference.htm> > > You can Google for more, if you wish. > > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of ED > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE > > Why are GloFish® the only fluorescent fish that can be sold in the > United States? > Because fluorescent fish are unique, their sale is covered by a > substantial number of patents and pending patent applications. The production of > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fl The > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest Farms, > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to produce > and market fluorescent fish within the United States.uorescent fish > not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, is > strictly prohibited. For additional information regarding GloFish® > fluorescent fish license details please click here. > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1334 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:52 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26726	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Fuzz on driftwood

If the white dots resemble salt sprinkles, it sounds like Ich. The string hanging could be another type of parasite, possibly an anchor worm. Check out the pictures and descriptions on this page to try and better identify what you have. http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html Your reply doesn't contain any of the original thread so I do not recall anything else about the tank such as size, stocking, etc., but I do recall that you recently added the driftwood. Where did you get it and how did you prepare it for your tank? It would be a good idea to get your own master test kit, for under $20.00 (see my blog for an article about Master Test Kits), so you can do your own testing, especially when something is going on in your tank(s). While it may not be critical need to know info, it's very helpful when trying to eliminate possible causes of issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shelley Kate Coffman Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fuzz on driftwood I have done a 1/3 PWC every other day, so far nothing changed the fuzz. My concern isn't the fuzz but the way the angels and swordtails are acting. Close to the top of the tank. PH is ranging around 7.2, I am testing other parameters at the local shop. Now one of the angels has a couple of white things, dots, (resembles eggspots on male ciclids) and seemed to have a string hanging off of one of the lower long fins. No other fish has the appearance of ick or other disease. Does it hurt plants to treat tanks with meds? Or would it be best to quarenteen the one angel? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1334 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:52 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26727	From: Marty Derenge	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Why are GloFish® the only fluorescent fish that can be sold in the > United States? > Because fluorescent fish are unique, their sale is covered by a > substantial number of patents and pending patent applications. The > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest Farms, > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to produce > and market fluorescent fish within the United States. The production of > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fluorescent > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, is > strictly prohibited. For additional information regarding GloFish® > fluorescent fish license details please click here. > If you're actually concerned about this, there are a number of things to be pointed out. #1 Check w/a patent attorney in your state, just because they list that it is strictly prohibited on their website does not mean it is enforceable. A number of car valet services have signs by their booth indicating that they are not responsible for lost or stolen items, the sign does not negate their responsibility. In other words, they might have put that on their website to discourage competition. #2 How would they know if these are offspring or fish that you purchased from a store that you wished to sell unless you specifically mentioned it? #3 There is no contract between you and "Glofish." Unless you signed a contract, again I don't see that this would be enforceable. Another comparison is breeders that sell certain dogs (ie: less than stellar quality, but still good pets) may ask you to spay/neuter the animal, but unless you actually sign a contract, you cannot be forced to do so. Again check w/a patent attorney. It's a simple question that could probably be answered over the phone. Finally, I can understand the idea of patenting the fish, and if someone were creating the fish as opposed to spawning them, I would side w/the patent holder. In this circumstance, my personal belief is that you should be able to do what you want with them. I'm not an attorney, so don't go setting up a giant "Glofish" breeding operation on my say so! Marty

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26728	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: lighting

Chris, Marine lighting and/or its conversion to freshwater lighting is not in my field of expertise, so I too have been reluctant to answer your question. Actually, I'd venture to say that the marine aquarists on the Forum are probably well in the minority, although I know we do have some, and some very good ones at that. As to your question, All Glass Aquarium makes a 55 Watt (21") 8000 K full spectrum straight pin compact bulb (if its strong enough for your needs) and Custom Sea Life makes a 65 Watt 8800 K Ultra Daylight compact bulb, although I'm not sure if this one is straight pin (you would have to check further). Coral Life makes a 65 Watt (21") 10000 K straight pin compact bulb, if that's still within the color spectrum that will fill your needs. I'm more familiar with the conventional T-6, T-8 and T-12 bulbs, but hope this will help; I have a feeling many others here have a similar familiarity. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Corley" <ki4jpg@...> wrote: > > No problem Steve I have gotten it taken care of. > > Chris C' > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:46 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: lighting > > > I passed on your question because I would have had a number of questions to > ask you about your hood set-up, which I am not familiar. That, plus I have > been working 12-16 per day lately, which doesn't leave me much room for the > pursuit of "recreational" activities. > > I'm looking forward to the NEC event in April, where I will have at least > one well deserved day off (except for what should be a quick stop at a > client's office on my way up to the NEC. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 2:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: lighting > > I GUESS out of 1975 people in this group noone can help me with my > question??? WOW! No fresh water plant tanks in this group? > > Thanks for trying folks > Chris C > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Corley" <ki4jpg@> wrote: > > > > Hello all my name is Chris been doing some research on COMPACT > bulbs. My > > question is. > > I have a ORBIT 48" light that I used on the saltwater tank. It has > 2 65 watt > > Sunpaq Duel daylight 6700k/10,000k, I know this would work for > freshwater > > plants but I want to change the other side of the light out due to > they are > > actinic lights which are no good for plants. Do I need to go with > the > > 6700/10,000 set up again or is there a Compact straight pin bulb > that I > > could use to get the most out of for my plants to use? I have a 75 > gallon > > tank in the process of setting it up. Any help with would be really > helpful > > please. I have read so much on the internet about lighting and > everyone has > > a different answer. I want the dark green lush look. I plan on > using C02, > > need to take the first steps first and get my lighting 100%. I am > looking at > > star moss too anyone no where to get that locally? > > > > Thanks > > Chris > > West Central Ga > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26729	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE

Marty, While I concur with your suggestion about seeking legal advice on complicated legal issues, I have to disagree with your assertion about the patent not being enforceable. A patent is not a contract so it is not affected by contract law. Patent law is public law that everyone is supposed to follow. I wish your thinking was correct since I never signed a contract agreeing to some of the STUPID laws passed by our legislators but unfortunately they still affect me. BTW, will you defend me when I quit paying taxes since I never signed any kind of contract agreeing to the confiscatory rates? If you lose, do you know anyone in a foreign country without an extradition treatise or will you serve my sentence? LOL ;-) If the genetically mutant glofish process is properly patented, then anyone cannot legally duplicate the process. Much like a pharmaceutical company that owns a patent on a new drug keeps all of the other drug companies from duplicating the process and selling their copies of the drugs but if the originator of the process/drug/etc. holds the legal patent, then they are afforded protection. Now once the patent expires, it's a whole 'nother ballgame! Now you may be correct in your "loophole" about re-selling, trading or bartering glofish that you previously legally purchased. I don't think the patent would prevent you from selling legally purchased glofish just like a patent doesn't prevent you from selling your legally purchased automobile (which are all covered under one or more patents). I guess if you did it on a small enough scale, nobody would notice but if you start posting it on websites and forums that are monitored by RSS, etc. type software (and apparently Glofish has someone monitoring the RSS, etc. feeds about glofish), then when they find out, they'll politely ask you to stop and if you don't, then you'll likely hear from their legal department. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marty Derenge Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Why are GloFish® the only fluorescent fish that can be sold in the > United States? > Because fluorescent fish are unique, their sale is covered by a > substantial number of patents and pending patent applications. The > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest Farms, > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to produce > and market fluorescent fish within the United States. The production of > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fluorescent > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, is > strictly prohibited. For additional information regarding GloFish® > fluorescent fish license details please click here. > If you're actually concerned about this, there are a number of things to be pointed out. #1 Check w/a patent attorney in your state, just because they list that it is strictly prohibited on their website does not mean it is enforceable. A number of car valet services have signs by their booth indicating that they are not responsible for lost or stolen items, the sign does not negate their responsibility. In other words, they might have put that on their website to discourage competition. #2 How would they know if these are offspring or fish that you purchased from a store that you wished to sell unless you specifically mentioned it? #3 There is no contract between you and "Glofish." Unless you signed a contract, again I don't see that this would be enforceable. Another comparison is breeders that sell certain dogs (ie: less than stellar quality, but still good pets) may ask you to spay/neuter the animal, but unless you actually sign a contract, you cannot be forced to do so. Again check w/a patent attorney. It's a simple question that could probably be answered over the phone. Finally, I can understand the idea of patenting the fish, and if someone were creating the fish as opposed to spawning them, I would side w/the patent holder. In this circumstance, my personal belief is that you should be able to do what you want with them. I'm not an attorney, so don't go setting up a giant "Glofish" breeding operation on my say so! Marty No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1334 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:52 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26730	From: ED	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE

I said copyright, true the name is copyrighted, and the process to create them and distribute them is patented. I miss named the post. My intent was to keep someone from making a mistake in a PUBLIC forum. The possability of someone from any one of many gov. institutions 'lurking' in our background here in the forum is NOT out of the question. The fact that the people from GloFish posted here is proof posative that you never know who's watching. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > ED, > > You still do not understand. The fish are not copyrighted. They cannot be copyrighted. The fish are patented, an entirely different protection for the owners of the patent vs. owners of a copyright. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 8:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE > > Nope no confusion ANY FLOURESCENT FISH MARKETED IN THE USA > > The production of > > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fl The > > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest > Farms, > > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to > produce > > and market fluorescent fish within the United States.uorescent > > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, > is > > strictly prohibited. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > ED, > > > > You are confusing two quite different critters here. The fish are > patented. There is no copyright on the fish. The name Glofish is a > registered trademark, a different critter from patents and copyrights. > > > > See here for the difference between copyright and trademark: > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Whats_the_differnce_between_copyright_and_tr > ademark > > > > A less satisfactory answer exists for the difference between > copyright and patent: > > > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_difference_between_copyright_and_pat > ent > > > > For a short discussion of all three, see: > http://www.lawmart.com/searches/difference.htm > > > > You can Google for more, if you wish. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED > > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:33 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE > > > > Why are GloFish® the only fluorescent fish that can be sold in the > > United States? > > Because fluorescent fish are unique, their sale is covered by a > > substantial number of patents and pending patent applications. The > production of > > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fl The > > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest > Farms, > > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to > produce > > and market fluorescent fish within the United States.uorescent > > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, > is > > strictly prohibited. For additional information regarding GloFish® > > fluorescent fish license details please click here. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > thanks. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26731	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Fuzz on driftwood

In a message dated 3/19/2008 11:18:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I've attached your original post for Lenny to read. After reading it again, I wondered if you put all the fish in at once and how long they were doing quite well? And, do not be afraid of a master test kit. They are very easy to use, have great instructions and explanations. After testing all the paramets in different ways, I am more confident about using my tap water - at least I know what I am putting in. I may not do a complete test for a while now, but I do use dip sticks for PH on occasion. Good luck, I know you hate to see your pretty fish gasping. Barbara If the white dots resemble salt sprinkles, it sounds like Ich. The string hanging could be another type of parasite, possibly an anchor worm. Check out the pictures and descriptions on this page to try and better identify what you have. http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html Your reply doesn't contain any of the original thread so I do not recall anything else about the tank such as size, stocking, etc., but I do recall that you recently added the driftwood. Where did you get it and how did you prepare it for your tank? It would be a good idea to get your own master test kit, for under $20.00 (see my blog for an article about Master Test Kits), so you can do your own testing, especially when something is going on in your tank(s). While it may not be critical need to know info, it's very helpful when trying to eliminate possible causes of issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shelley Kate Coffman Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fuzz on driftwood I have done a 1/3 PWC every other day, so far nothing changed the fuzz. My concern isn't the fuzz but the way the angels and swordtails are acting. Close to the top of the tank. PH is ranging around 7.2, I am testing other parameters at the local shop. Now one of the angels has a couple of white things, dots, (resembles eggspots on male ciclids) and seemed to have a string hanging off of one of the lower long fins. No other fish has the appearance of ick or other disease. Does it hurt plants to treat tanks with meds? Or would it be best to quarenteen the one angel? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1334 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:52 PM -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shelley Kate Coffman Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fuzz on my driftwood I started my first planted aquarium. I set up eco substrate with driftwood for almost a month prior to placing fish in. I am using a diy co2 which is making the plant really grow nice. I have, after the tank was established put angelfish and swordtails. They had been doing quite well. I did a normal water change yesterday, 20% and today they were panting near the top of the tank. There is some white fuzz on the driftwood that wasn't there before the water change. I also put flourish for the plants in with the water change. Should I make another water change? My tank is 50 gallon column tank with about 10 fish. 4 angels, 6 swordtails and 3 cory. **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26732	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: How long should I keep platy seperated?

My mickey mouse platy who was swimming verticle head up tail down seems to be better after being in the sick tank with salt and so on. How long should I wait before putting him back with the others? He has been by himself since late on 3/17. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26733	From: renee31477	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?

I came across some nice looking Kuhli loaches at Meijer last night(they had a really nice, clean fish department-I was impressed-and that hasnt always been the case there) They are very young(perhaps only about 2 1/2 inches long and thinner than a pencil) also, they were solid greyish brown in color, not banded like most loaches I see. I was wondering if Kuhli loaches are too big for a 10 gallon. Right now I only have 1 male betta in there with live plants. I know they are better in groups, what would be the smallest group I could keep them in? thanks Renee

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26734	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: How long should I keep platy seperated?

I usually quarantine sick fish for one to two weeks or longer depending on how they are doing. One week would be a minimum. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How long should I keep platy seperated? My mickey mouse platy who was swimming verticle head up tail down seems to be better after being in the sick tank with salt and so on. How long should I wait before putting him back with the others? He has been by himself since late on 3/17. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26735	From: Melissa	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Varieties & Pics

Thanks Ray, I originally figured they would each have their own scientific name, but I haven't been able to find anything other than the maculatus name. Everything I found on the variatus name seemed to say swordtails and I didn't think I had any of those, so I ignored that line of research entirely. All my platies are your basic average kind I guess. I don't have any high-fin varieties or any with an elongated tail. When I first starting looking, I figured my orange would be called something along the lines of "sunset". That was the first thing that came to my mind. Orange, sunset; I don't know, I thought it fit. But when I looked it up, the sunset ones I found didn't look anything like her. They were a champagne color with a dark orange tail. This one is all orange, from her mouth to her fin. I'll look up the name you gave me as soon as I get a chance and see if it fits. That blue one, I forgot to mention, is also a balloonish shape. She's not pregnant (at least I hope not, lol) and the tag on the tank when I bought her said balloon platy. I haven't been able to find anything about balloon palties either so now I'm wondering if these platies have been crossbreed with balloon mollies. maybe? Or maybe its an inbreeding trait? I have no clue. After I got home last night, I studied her real closely to describe her better. She is so heavily covered with the dark blue color (which is definitely a blue and not black) that the pale color is only visible in a thin line on her underbelly, somewhat on her mouth/face area, and I think her tail as well. I still can't define whether that pale color is more a pale blue or a whitish color. I'm trying to take pics but they're not cooporating very well and all I'm getting are blurry ones. I'll do some more internet research with the info you gave and hopefully it'll help. I'm usually very good at research but this has stumped me somewhat. Thanks Melissa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hey back to you Mellisa, For starters, ALL Platies ARE NOT named > under the scientific name of Xiphophorus maculatus. At last count > there were 23 different Xiphophorus species, some Platies and some > Swordtails. Most of the other Xiphophorus species, such as the > Spiketail Platy (Xiphophorus xiphidium) are rarely, if ever, seen in > the hobby. The same too, goes for such other wild species as the Rio > Aloyac Platy (X. andersi) and the endangered (Lake)-Catemaco Platy > (X. milleri). Then too, even such hybrids as Xiphopohorus roseni are > seldom seen outside of Livebearer enthusiast's tanks. Most of the > wild species are somewhat drab in color, even though, they are quite > interesting. The same was true with the wild X. maculatus until it > was domesticated. > > The two most common species in the hobby (and most colorful because > of hybridizing) are X. maculatus and X. variatus. They're the most > popular species in the hobby because of their many different man- made > color variations first produced well over 70 years ago by crossing > them with Swordtails (X. helleri) and then over the years, to each > other to subsequently derive the present assortment of color strains > now available -- and the only reason why they're so popular in the > hobby, deservedly so. By your descriptions, your orange-colored > Platy (fading from a lighter to a somewhat darker shade), is most > probably a "Sunset" Xiphophorus variatus -- especially if its > somewhat more elongated than the previous fish. Your pale (pale > blue?) Platy with its heavy smattering of dark blue and/or black > spots (dots) sounds to be a "Blue" Variatus Platy (X. variatus - blue > strain). This is without actually seeing your fish, but the > descriptions fit (and do not fit any others). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <waterlogged1214@> > wrote: > > > > Hey everyone, I have a quick question. I have several different > > varieties of platies that I am trying to identify. I've been > internet > > searching and that hasn't helped me any so I figured maybe you guys > > know some good websites to try. I know I have a gold/yellow mickey > > mouse, a white mickey mouse, and a red wag one. Those I can > identify > > really quickly, but I'm having trouble with 2 others. One is > > completely orange, with the orange color fading from a lighter to a > > somewhat darker shade. The other one is a pale color maybe white > with > > a heavy smattering of dark blue or blackish dots which basically > cover > > the entire sides of the fish. I've been looking for pictures with > > varietal names attached but I haven't found any yet. I can either > find > > pics but no names, or names with no pics. Apparantly all platies > are > > named under the scientific name of Xiphophorus maculatus without > > distinction of colors. Does anyone know of a good site with both > pics > > and names? Thanks Melissa > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26736	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: How long should I keep platy seperated?

Ok thanks Lenny. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How long should I keep platy seperated? I usually quarantine sick fish for one to two weeks or longer depending on how they are doing. One week would be a minimum. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„ Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How long should I keep platy seperated? My mickey mouse platy who was swimming verticle head up tail down seems to be better after being in the sick tank with salt and so on. How long should I wait before putting him back with the others? He has been by himself since late on 3/17. „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26737	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Varieties & Pics

My son has two sunset platies one is white and the white fades into light orange and then darker orange on her tail, her top fin is orange also. His male is a dark deep but bright orange that fades into black. -----Original Message----- From: Melissa <waterlogged1214@...> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy Varieties & Pics Thanks Ray, I originally figured they would each have their own scientific name, but I haven't been able to find anything other than the maculatus name. Everything I found on the variatus name seemed to say swordtails and I didn't think I had any of those, so I ignored that line of research entirely. All my platies are your basic average kind I guess. I don't have any high-fin varieties or any with an elongated tail. When I first starting looking, I figured my orange would be called something along the lines of "sunset". That was the first thing that came to my mind. Orange, sunset; I don't know, I thought it fit. But when I looked it up, the sunset ones I found didn't look anything like her. They were a champagne color with a dark orange tail. This one is all orange, from her mouth to her fin. I'll look up the name you gave me as soon as I get a chance and see if it fits. That blue one, I forgot to mention, is also a balloonish shape. She's not pregnant (at least I hope not, lol) and the tag on the tank when I bought her said balloon platy. I haven't been able to find anything about balloon palties either so now I'm wondering if these platies have been crossbreed with balloon mollies. maybe? Or maybe its an inbreeding trait? I have no clue. After I got home last night, I studied her real closely to describe her better. She is so heavily covered with the dark blue color (which is definitely a blue and not black) that the pale color is only visible in a thin line on her underbelly, somewhat on her mouth/face area, and I think her tail as well. I still can't define whether that pale color is more a pale blue or a whitish color. I'm trying to take pics but they're not cooporating very well and all I'm getting are blurry ones. I'll do some more internet research with the info you gave and hopefully it'll help. I'm usually very good at research but this has stumped me somewhat. Thanks Melissa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hey back to you Mellisa, For starters, ALL Platies ARE NOT named > under the scientific name of Xiphophorus maculatus. At last count > there were 23 different Xiphophorus species, some Platies and some > Swordtails. Most of the other Xiphophorus species, such as the > Spiketail Platy (Xiphophorus xiphidium) are rarely, if ever, seen in > the hobby. The same too, goes for such other wild species as the Rio > Aloyac Platy (X. andersi) and the endangered (Lake)-Catemaco Platy > (X. milleri). Then too, even such hybrids as Xiphopohorus roseni are > seldom seen outside of Livebearer enthusiast's tanks. Most of the > wild species are somewhat drab in color, even though, they are quite > interesting. The same was true with the wild X. maculatus until it > was domesticated. > > The two most common species in the hobby (and most colorful because > of hybridizing) are X. maculatus and X. variatus. They're the most > popular species in the hobby because of their many different man- made > color variations first produced well over 70 years ago by crossing > them with Swordtails (X. helleri) and then over the years, to each > other to subsequently derive the present assortment of color strains > now available -- and the only reason why they're so popular in the > hobby, deservedly so. By your descriptions, your orange-colored > Platy (fading from a lighter to a somewhat darker shade), is most > probably a "Sunset" Xiphophorus variatus -- especially if its > somewhat more elongated than the previous fish. Your pale (pale > blue?) Platy with its heavy smattering of dark blue and/or black > spots (dots) sounds to be a "Blue" Variatus Platy (X. variatus - blue > strain). This is without actually seeing your fish, but the > descriptions fit (and do not fit any others). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <waterlogged1214@> > wrote: > > > > Hey everyone, I have a quick question. I have several different > > varieties of platies that I am trying to identify. I've been > internet > > searching and that hasn't helped me any so I figured maybe you guys > > know some good websites to try. I know I have a gold/yellow mickey > > mouse, a white mickey mouse, and a red wag one. Those I can > identify > > really quickly, but I'm having trouble with 2 others. One is > > completely orange, with the orange color fading from a lighter to a > > somewhat darker shade. The other one is a pale color maybe white > with > > a heavy smattering of dark blue or blackish dots which basically > cover > > the entire sides of the fish. I've been looking for pictures with > > varietal names attached but I haven't found any yet. I can either > find > > pics but no names, or names with no pics. Apparantly all platies > are > > named under the scientific name of Xiphophorus maculatus without > > distinction of colors. Does anyone know of a good site with both > pics > > and names? Thanks Melissa > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26738	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?

Yes, kuhli's get too big for a 10G. Now, a single specimen in a well planted 10G might be OK but loaches prefer to be in groups of three or more and they grow to 4" so you would be pushing the stocking limits at that point. Further, since the ones you are looking at are not banded, they may not be kuhli loaches so you could end up with fish that get much larger. Also, loaches prefer a sand type or soft substrate. For more ideas of other fish for your 10G, take a look at "Hailey's 10 gallon tank suggested stocking list" which is on my blog. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml Here's some more reading about kuhli's and other loaches. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id= 618 http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/loaches/kuhliloach.html (recommends 20G as minimum tank size) http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of renee31477 Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? I came across some nice looking Kuhli loaches at Meijer last night(they had a really nice, clean fish department-I was impressed-and that hasnt always been the case there) They are very young(perhaps only about 2 1/2 inches long and thinner than a pencil) also, they were solid greyish brown in color, not banded like most loaches I see. I was wondering if Kuhli loaches are too big for a 10 gallon. Right now I only have 1 male betta in there with live plants. I know they are better in groups, what would be the smallest group I could keep them in? thanks Renee No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26739	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE

After some direct contact with Yorktown Technologies, I can tell you all that the CEO is one of the NICEST guys in the world. He was very polite in all respects, and is a big supporter of the use of glos in student research and education. I'm glad that the company was able to share some information directly about the suspected issues with the glo-fish, and put some research to back some of the unfounded worries about their release to the public. For those of you who are interested--the idea of patenting gene insertions and gene sequences is not new. It would be totally legal for anyone to inject other genes into other danios or other fish species and market the fish. The idea of gene injection/developing GMOs is now somewhat old in the world of molecular genetics, and there are MANY MANY documented types of danios and other organisms. These have all been produced using identical or similar methods. So, although I cannot be sure as I am not a patent lawyer nor have I read the patent myself, it would seem highly unlikely that the US patent and trade office would patent the production of ALL transgenic/GMO fish, since there were others produced prior to the glofish. The growth hormone gene in salmonids comes to mind--I was fortunate enough to meet some of these individuals years ago when they came to give a seminar on the methods. VERY neat, and if we are to meet the world's growing demand, their efforts were a step in the right direction. Why aren't more people doing it? It takes time, $$$$, and some equipment, and it is a very tedious process. I've microinjected LARGE trout eggs, and those hours in front of the scope nearly made me blind : ) so it's not without work and dedication that these things get done. Even so, many of the injected eggs fail to develop, so the % of success is not high. The fact that this group has what we call "stable germ-line transmission" (meaning it can be passed on reliably from parent to offspring) is another huge achievement...few injected genes actually become stable and are able to be passed on. As for identifying offspring vs purchased, as long as you had a receipt and traded what you bought with someone, I can't imagine there would be a problem. Also, if you crossed their glos with other danios, one could easily determine this by examining the fish's microsatellites--which gives a genetic fingerprint. I understand--from being in the lab--how important it is for people to get back $$ from their brain, time, and monetary investments. I'm glad that some of this $ goes back to research. Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > I said copyright, true the name is copyrighted, and the process to > create them and distribute them is patented. I miss named the post. > My intent was to keep someone from making a mistake in a PUBLIC > forum. The possability of someone from any one of many gov. > institutions 'lurking' in our background here in the forum is NOT out > of the question. The fact that the people from GloFish posted here is > proof posative that you never know who's watching. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > ED, > > > > You still do not understand. The fish are not copyrighted. They > cannot be copyrighted. The fish are patented, an entirely different > protection for the owners of the patent vs. owners of a copyright. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED > > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 8:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE > > > > Nope no confusion ANY FLOURESCENT FISH MARKETED IN THE USA > > > > The production of > > > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fl The > > > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest > > Farms, > > > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to > > produce > > > and market fluorescent fish within the United States.uorescent > > > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, > > is > > > strictly prohibited. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > ED, > > > > > > You are confusing two quite different critters here. The fish are > > patented. There is no copyright on the fish. The name Glofish is a > > registered trademark, a different critter from patents and > copyrights. > > > > > > See here for the difference between copyright and trademark: > > > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Whats_the_differnce_between_copyright_and_tr > > ademark > > > > > > A less satisfactory answer exists for the difference between > > copyright and patent: > > > > > > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_difference_between_copyright_and_pat > > ent > > > > > > For a short discussion of all three, see: > > http://www.lawmart.com/searches/difference.htm > > > > > > You can Google for more, if you wish. > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:33 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE > > > > > > Why are GloFish® the only fluorescent fish that can be sold in > the > > > United States? > > > Because fluorescent fish are unique, their sale is covered by a > > > substantial number of patents and pending patent applications. > The > > production of > > > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fl The > > > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest > > Farms, > > > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to > > produce > > > and market fluorescent fish within the United States.uorescent > > > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, > > is > > > strictly prohibited. For additional information regarding > GloFish® > > > fluorescent fish license details please click here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > thanks. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > thanks. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26740	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: BioWheels

Okay, lack of knowledge time again: I have always had Whisper or Pengiun HOB filters on my tanks and don't mind them at all. I was recently given four filters via Freecycle and was told that a couple of them were BioWheels. They look like regular HOB's so I am confused what the difference is between say a Whisper HOB and a biowheel filter. One of the biowheels (I am assuming it is a biowheel - it looks like a waterwheel from the old tv shows) is crushed - can just those be replaced? I was also given something that looks like a CO2 dispenser but I am not sure that is what it is. Clear tube around 12 inches long with a cover on top with an airline hole in it and on the bottom it comes to a horizontal point with slots in it. Does this sound familiar? The person that gave me these items wasn't sure what she had. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26741	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Advice,please

Hi Lenny, One of my Severums has puffy lips. He seems to have a fungus cuz it's a white color. What treatment do you recommend adding to the tank to clear this up? What medications would help to get rid of it? Thanks, Steve Steve Biondi (execsrchATcomcast.net) Senior Recruiter (650)355-7299 HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_redfade_195x42.jpg" Work: 650 355 7299 Email: HYPERLINK "mailto:execsrch@..."execsrch@... HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/icon_in_blue_14x14.gif" HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevebiondi"http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevebion di Executive Search HYPERLINK "http://maps.google.com/maps?q=969+Park+Pacifica+Ave++Suite+100%2CPacifica%2 CCA+94044%2CUSA&hl=en"969 Park Pacifica Ave Suite 100 Pacifica, CA 94044 USA Recruiting top talent is our goal and our passion. HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/e/sig/457079/"Want a signature like this? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26742	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta

Well he still has not gotten any better. He is still eating fine, is still acting normal and is active. His tail has not deteraited anymore, except the tips still seem swollen and red. I have decided to stop treating him, I dont think he should be treated 3 weeks straight. I am still going to give him PWC daily , and keep his salt in his tank and hope he can fight it off by himself. Do you guys agree with this idea? Or at least maybe treat him one week on and one week off after this till he is better? He is back to normal, and I havent treated him with meds for the last 3 days and he still seems fine other than the red swollen tips. ~Melissa ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26743	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE

Wrong, the name is trademarked, not copyrighted. Again a difference between the two. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE I said copyright, true the name is copyrighted, and the process to create them and distribute them is patented. I miss named the post. My intent was to keep someone from making a mistake in a PUBLIC forum. The possability of someone from any one of many gov. institutions 'lurking' in our background here in the forum is NOT out of the question. The fact that the people from GloFish posted here is proof posative that you never know who's watching. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > ED, > > You still do not understand. The fish are not copyrighted. They cannot be copyrighted. The fish are patented, an entirely different protection for the owners of the patent vs. owners of a copyright. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 8:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE > > Nope no confusion ANY FLOURESCENT FISH MARKETED IN THE USA > > The production of > > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fl The > > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest > Farms, > > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to > produce > > and market fluorescent fish within the United States.uorescent > > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, > is > > strictly prohibited. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > ED, > > > > You are confusing two quite different critters here. The fish are > patented. There is no copyright on the fish. The name Glofish is a > registered trademark, a different critter from patents and copyrights. > > > > See here for the difference between copyright and trademark: > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Whats_the_differnce_between_copyright_and_tr > ademark > > > > A less satisfactory answer exists for the difference between > copyright and patent: > > > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_difference_between_copyright_and_pat > ent > > > > For a short discussion of all three, see: > http://www.lawmart.com/searches/difference.htm > > > > You can Google for more, if you wish. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED > > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:33 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Glofish are have a copyright BEWARE > > > > Why are GloFish® the only fluorescent fish that can be sold in the > > United States? > > Because fluorescent fish are unique, their sale is covered by a > > substantial number of patents and pending patent applications. The > production of > > fluorescent fish by any other party, or the sale of any fl The > > providers of GloFish® fluorescent fish, 5-D Tropical and Segrest > Farms, > > are the only distributors that have the necessary licenses to > produce > > and market fluorescent fish within the United States.uorescent > > fish not originally distributed by 5-D Tropical or Segrest Farms, > is > > strictly prohibited. For additional information regarding GloFish® > > fluorescent fish license details please click here. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > thanks. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ======================================================================== Groups related to AquaticLife ======================================================================== tropicalfishclub (254 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr0&sec=recg Fish/Tropical Fish: Welcome! Here, you can post questions (and answers... UniQuaria (224 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr1&sec=recg Hobbies/Aquariums: Join an extensive international network of avid fr... Saltwater_Fish_and_Reef_Aquariums (101 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Saltwater_Fish_and_Reef_Aquariums?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr2&sec=recg Aquariums/Salt Water Aquariums: Photo by Jason "Emerald Crab (Mithrax sculptus)" C... sunriseandsunset (92 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sunriseandsunset?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr3&sec=recg Movies/Independent: This group is for fans of the Richard Linklater mo... aquaria-freshwater (75 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaria-freshwater?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr4&sec=recg Animals/Marine Life: Open discussion for people with aquariums to commu... ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26744	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: BioWheels

Yes, the primary difference between a regular HOB and a Bio-Wheel is the actual Bio-Wheel which is just a reinforced paper filter media that is corrugated so it looks like a "waterwheel". Marineland, the inventor of Bio-Spira, also invented the Bio-Wheel technology. The main benefit is that you can change out the filter cartridges as often as you like and it will not severely affect your biological filtration in your filter system since the Bio-Wheel does not get fooled with so it stays fully "cycled". It's rather ingenious of Marineland to do this so they can still safely promote that people change out their filter cartridges every few weeks without it putting the tank into a mini-cycle, when compared to many of the other HOB's. This mini-cycle issue mainly affects a newer unplanted tank but can affect more mature tanks as well. Yes, the bio-wheel itself can be purchased. Just buy one unit unless the multi-packs are really much lower priced as a single wheel should last a very long time. I still have the original one on my Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel HOB from a few years ago. Either bring your "crushed" one with you or bring your HOB filter system with you to make sure you get the right size. I don't recognize the other thing but from your description of the tube thing, it almost sounds like the large tube end of a gravel siphon but I'm sure you know what those look like. A picture speaks a 1,000 words. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] BioWheels Okay, lack of knowledge time again: I have always had Whisper or Pengiun HOB filters on my tanks and don't mind them at all. I was recently given four filters via Freecycle and was told that a couple of them were BioWheels. They look like regular HOB's so I am confused what the difference is between say a Whisper HOB and a biowheel filter. One of the biowheels (I am assuming it is a biowheel - it looks like a waterwheel from the old tv shows) is crushed - can just those be replaced? I was also given something that looks like a CO2 dispenser but I am not sure that is what it is. Clear tube around 12 inches long with a cover on top with an airline hole in it and on the bottom it comes to a horizontal point with slots in it. Does this sound familiar? The person that gave me these items wasn't sure what she had. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26745	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Advice,please

Hi Steve, While I certainly don't mind emails addressed directly to me, it's probably best to leave the salutation section blank on a new topic as there are many other members who might have replied more quickly since I was working out in the field all day today. The best place to start for diagnosis and treatment information is Pandora's Disease page which fortunately is archived on the WayBack archive site since the original site that was hosting Pandora's pages is no longer working. Here is the WayBack link... http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html Based on your description, check out the pictures for "Bacterial External Infections" and more specifically Columnaris (Mouth Fungus... which appears to be a fungus but is actually bacterial). See if this is what you have. If it is, then a broad spectrum antibiotic would be recommended. Read all of the notes and info/links in the columns adjacent to the disease names. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice,please Hi Lenny, One of my Severums has puffy lips. He seems to have a fungus cuz it's a white color. What treatment do you recommend adding to the tank to clear this up? What medications would help to get rid of it? Thanks, Steve Steve Biondi (execsrchATcomcast.net) Senior Recruiter (650)355-7299 HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_redfade_195x42.jpg <http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_redfade_195x42.jpg> " Work: 650 355 7299 Email: HYPERLINK "mailto:execsrch@... <mailto:execsrch%40comcast.net> "execsrch@... <mailto:execsrch%40comcast.net> HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/icon_in_blue_14x14.gif <http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/icon_in_blue_14x14.gif> " HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevebiondi <http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevebiondi> "http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevebion <http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevebion> di Executive Search HYPERLINK "http://maps.google.com/maps?q=969+Park+Pacifica+Ave++Suite+100%2CPacifica%2 <http://maps.google.com/maps?q=969+Park+Pacifica+Ave++Suite+100%2CPacifica%2 > CCA+94044%2CUSA&hl=en"969 Park Pacifica Ave Suite 100 Pacifica, CA 94044 USA Recruiting top talent is our goal and our passion. HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/e/sig/457079/ <http://www.linkedin.com/e/sig/457079/> "Want a signature like this? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta

If you keep up with frequent PWC's and continue using the salt at a low level therapeutic dose, then as long as the fish is generally acting healthy, the tail should slowly heal up. Eventually, you want to slowly acclimate him back to fresh water with no salt. Just to make sure I'm on the same page as you.. this was the Betta that's about 4 years old and wasn't feeling well and had fin rot issues and you've been treating with Bettafix followed by Melafix on a subsequent treatment? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Walker Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 2:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Betta Well he still has not gotten any better. He is still eating fine, is still acting normal and is active. His tail has not deteraited anymore, except the tips still seem swollen and red. I have decided to stop treating him, I dont think he should be treated 3 weeks straight. I am still going to give him PWC daily , and keep his salt in his tank and hope he can fight it off by himself. Do you guys agree with this idea? Or at least maybe treat him one week on and one week off after this till he is better? He is back to normal, and I havent treated him with meds for the last 3 days and he still seems fine other than the red swollen tips. ~Melissa No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26747	From: renee31477	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?

That's what I figured. I wasnt really married to the idea of having a kuhli loach anyway.... I actually think I may just add neon tetras. Although, should I wait until I get the aquascape in order? (adding/changing a few plants Im only used to having bettas and not tiny, darting fish like neons. Renee --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote> > Yes, kuhli's get too big for a 10G. Now, a single specimen in a well > planted 10G might be OK but loaches prefer to be in groups of three or more > and they grow to 4" so you would be pushing the stocking limits at that > point. Further, since the ones you are looking at are not banded, they may > not be kuhli loaches so you could end up with fish that get much larger. > Also, loaches prefer a sand type or soft substrate. > > For more ideas of other fish for your 10G, take a look at "Hailey's 10 > gallon tank suggested stocking list" which is on my blog. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank- stocking-list.h > tml > > Here's some more reading about kuhli's and other loaches. > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php? article_id= > 618 > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html > > http://www.aquatic- hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/loaches/kuhliloach.html > (recommends 20G as minimum tank size) > > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of renee31477 > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? > > I came across some nice looking Kuhli loaches at Meijer last night (they had > a really nice, clean fish department-I was impressed-and that hasnt always > been the case there) > > They are very young(perhaps only about 2 1/2 inches long and thinner than a > pencil) also, they were solid greyish brown in color, not banded like most > loaches I see. > > I was wondering if Kuhli loaches are too big for a 10 gallon. > > Right now I only have 1 male betta in there with live plants. > > I know they are better in groups, what would be the smallest group I could > keep them in? > > thanks > > Renee > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 > 9:54 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26748	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Dead Pristella with eggs.

All, I have a rebus for you. Actually, it's a rebus for me but you may have a simple answer. I've been doing a fishless cycle to a new 46-gal tank for the past 3 weeks. Well, last Sunday the cycle was over and I gradually moved all my fish from the 10-gal to the 46-gal. I didn't just throw the fish from one tank to the other one, but I placed them in a little tank and added 1 cup of the new aquarium every 5 minutes for a total of 15-20 minutes to acclimate them to the new water. After a couple of days I noticed that one of the 3 Pristellas was getting bigger and I thought that the change might have triggered eggs production. However, today that Pristella started looking sick. In particular, she lost most of the color on the fins, she couldn't rest and started swimming all over the tank but in a way that was evident she was feeling very uncomfortable. Then she started resting on one side or getting trapped in plants. I understood she was going to die in a matter of hours or minutes. At that point I moved her to the 10-gal tank (still running) to avoid that she could spread infections to the other fish. She died after about 30 minutes. Now here is the rebus. When I tried to squeeze her, a lot of eggs came out. So my question is why she died? Couldn't she just release the eggs? What do you suggest to do if I see a similar situation in future? Thank you, Giuseppe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26749	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Advice,please

Steve, is your Severum doing any lip locking with another Severum or other South American Cichlids fish in your tank? If so their lips get damaged from this breeding ritual, and turn white,but heal on their own with out intervention. Is it taffy? Looks like white mold or stringy? If so then it's true fungus, and can be treated with Maroxy and Maracyn together. I am a huge believer in Mardell products the manufacture, sometimes hard to find thou. Treat for 5 days and your fish are all good. :) Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Biondi To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:36 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice,please Hi Lenny, One of my Severums has puffy lips. He seems to have a fungus cuz it's a white color. What treatment do you recommend adding to the tank to clear this up? What medications would help to get rid of it? Thanks, Steve Steve Biondi (execsrchATcomcast.net) Senior Recruiter (650)355-7299 HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_redfade_195x42.jpg" Work: 650 355 7299 Email: HYPERLINK "mailto:execsrch@..."execsrch@... HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/icon_in_blue_14x14.gif" HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevebiondi"http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevebion di Executive Search HYPERLINK "http://maps.google.com/maps?q=969+Park+Pacifica+Ave++Suite+100%2CPacifica%2 CCA+94044%2CUSA&hl=en"969 Park Pacifica Ave Suite 100 Pacifica, CA 94044 USA Recruiting top talent is our goal and our passion. HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/e/sig/457079/"Want a signature like this? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26750	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Pristella with eggs.

Where are the pictures? Rebus - A puzzle where you decode a message consisting of pictures representing syllables and words. (From WordWeb Desktop Dictionary... Yes, I had to look up "rebus"... I just knew it wasn't a fish. lol) It's likely your fish was egg bound. It happens on occasion. People have tried manual manipulation to help squeeze the eggs out and I've read reports of limited success with this procedure but more often, it results in the inevitable death of the fish. You can Google 'egg bound fish' and find thousands of threads and/or articles on the process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of giuseppesalvato Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead Pristella with eggs. All, I have a rebus for you. Actually, it's a rebus for me but you may have a simple answer. I've been doing a fishless cycle to a new 46-gal tank for the past 3 weeks. Well, last Sunday the cycle was over and I gradually moved all my fish from the 10-gal to the 46-gal. I didn't just throw the fish from one tank to the other one, but I placed them in a little tank and added 1 cup of the new aquarium every 5 minutes for a total of 15-20 minutes to acclimate them to the new water. After a couple of days I noticed that one of the 3 Pristellas was getting bigger and I thought that the change might have triggered eggs production. However, today that Pristella started looking sick. In particular, she lost most of the color on the fins, she couldn't rest and started swimming all over the tank but in a way that was evident she was feeling very uncomfortable. Then she started resting on one side or getting trapped in plants. I understood she was going to die in a matter of hours or minutes. At that point I moved her to the 10-gal tank (still running) to avoid that she could spread infections to the other fish. She died after about 30 minutes. Now here is the rebus. When I tried to squeeze her, a lot of eggs came out. So my question is why she died? Couldn't she just release the eggs? What do you suggest to do if I see a similar situation in future? Thank you, Giuseppe No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26751	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Pristella with eggs.

Lenny is right,you must have a male to stimulated the female to release the eggs, and they love water changes, it usually stimulates spawning. But most likely she has been egg bound for quite sometime, and the stress of being moved just finished her off.. I'm sorry for your loss . This sometimes happens even if a male is present to stimulate her, I believe this has something to do the age of the fish. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dead Pristella with eggs. Where are the pictures? Rebus - A puzzle where you decode a message consisting of pictures representing syllables and words. (From WordWeb Desktop Dictionary... Yes, I had to look up "rebus"... I just knew it wasn't a fish. lol) It's likely your fish was egg bound. It happens on occasion. People have tried manual manipulation to help squeeze the eggs out and I've read reports of limited success with this procedure but more often, it results in the inevitable death of the fish. You can Google 'egg bound fish' and find thousands of threads and/or articles on the process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of giuseppesalvato Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead Pristella with eggs. All, I have a rebus for you. Actually, it's a rebus for me but you may have a simple answer. I've been doing a fishless cycle to a new 46-gal tank for the past 3 weeks. Well, last Sunday the cycle was over and I gradually moved all my fish from the 10-gal to the 46-gal. I didn't just throw the fish from one tank to the other one, but I placed them in a little tank and added 1 cup of the new aquarium every 5 minutes for a total of 15-20 minutes to acclimate them to the new water. After a couple of days I noticed that one of the 3 Pristellas was getting bigger and I thought that the change might have triggered eggs production. However, today that Pristella started looking sick. In particular, she lost most of the color on the fins, she couldn't rest and started swimming all over the tank but in a way that was evident she was feeling very uncomfortable. Then she started resting on one side or getting trapped in plants. I understood she was going to die in a matter of hours or minutes. At that point I moved her to the 10-gal tank (still running) to avoid that she could spread infections to the other fish. She died after about 30 minutes. Now here is the rebus. When I tried to squeeze her, a lot of eggs came out. So my question is why she died? Couldn't she just release the eggs? What do you suggest to do if I see a similar situation in future? Thank you, Giuseppe No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26752	From: Wendie	Date: 3/20/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?

Kuhlis are a little different from the regular rule of thumb. A well planted 10 gallon tank with hiding places is fine for several kuhlis. I keep about 10 in my tank and they've been there for several years - growing fat. I moved 6 of them from a 5 gallon tank which I used for a few months as a Q tank. The kuhlis you saw are black kuhlis. I have two of those in with the regular kuhlis. One group of kuhlis live in an old log while the balance lives in a cave. ----- Original Message ----- From: renee31477 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:17 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? That's what I figured. I wasnt really married to the idea of having a kuhli loach anyway.... I actually think I may just add neon tetras. Although, should I wait until I get the aquascape in order? (adding/changing a few plants Im only used to having bettas and not tiny, darting fish like neons. Renee --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote> > Yes, kuhli's get too big for a 10G. Now, a single specimen in a well > planted 10G might be OK but loaches prefer to be in groups of three or more > and they grow to 4" so you would be pushing the stocking limits at that > point. Further, since the ones you are looking at are not banded, they may > not be kuhli loaches so you could end up with fish that get much larger. > Also, loaches prefer a sand type or soft substrate. > > For more ideas of other fish for your 10G, take a look at "Hailey's 10 > gallon tank suggested stocking list" which is on my blog. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank- stocking-list.h > tml > > Here's some more reading about kuhli's and other loaches. > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php? article_id= > 618 > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html > > http://www.aquatic- hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/loaches/kuhliloach.html > (recommends 20G as minimum tank size) > > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of renee31477 > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? > > I came across some nice looking Kuhli loaches at Meijer last night (they had > a really nice, clean fish department-I was impressed-and that hasnt always > been the case there) > > They are very young(perhaps only about 2 1/2 inches long and thinner than a > pencil) also, they were solid greyish brown in color, not banded like most > loaches I see. > > I was wondering if Kuhli loaches are too big for a 10 gallon. > > Right now I only have 1 male betta in there with live plants. > > I know they are better in groups, what would be the smallest group I could > keep them in? > > thanks > > Renee > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 > 9:54 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26753	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?

Wendie, While you may keep 10 kuhli's in a 10G planted tank and you may have been lucky over the past several years, it's simply NOT good for the fish and I'm not sure if you should be advising others to do the same. You're talking 40 inches of fish in a 10G tank. And kuhli's get much fatter than neon tetra's or galaxy rasbora's and I would never recommend putting 40 of either of them in a 10G tank. The fish will almost certainly suffer from stunting unless you are doing very, very frequent PWC's and run lots of chemical filtration. As far as I know, plants do not utilize the hormones excreted by the fish but maybe they do. Every reputable profile I've looked at for kuhli loaches recommend a minimum of 20G for a small shoal of at least three fish but also would say it's much better to keep more than three. As far as the regular kuhli's or black kuhli's, I have no clue what the store has in their tank. Another good reason why a store should put the scientific name on the labels. Black Kuhli's are Pangio Oblonga whereas the more common Kuhli is Pangio Acanthophthalmus Kuhli. There are many other Pangio Kuhli Loaches that are similar in size/shape but have various solid dark colors. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/species-index (Scroll down to Pangio...) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? Kuhlis are a little different from the regular rule of thumb. A well planted 10 gallon tank with hiding places is fine for several kuhlis. I keep about 10 in my tank and they've been there for several years - growing fat. I moved 6 of them from a 5 gallon tank which I used for a few months as a Q tank. The kuhlis you saw are black kuhlis. I have two of those in with the regular kuhlis. One group of kuhlis live in an old log while the balance lives in a cave. ----- Original Message ----- From: renee31477 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:17 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? That's what I figured. I wasnt really married to the idea of having a kuhli loach anyway.... I actually think I may just add neon tetras. Although, should I wait until I get the aquascape in order? (adding/changing a few plants Im only used to having bettas and not tiny, darting fish like neons. Renee --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote> > Yes, kuhli's get too big for a 10G. Now, a single specimen in a well > planted 10G might be OK but loaches prefer to be in groups of three or more > and they grow to 4" so you would be pushing the stocking limits at that > point. Further, since the ones you are looking at are not banded, they may > not be kuhli loaches so you could end up with fish that get much larger. > Also, loaches prefer a sand type or soft substrate. > > For more ideas of other fish for your 10G, take a look at "Hailey's 10 > gallon tank suggested stocking list" which is on my blog. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank- > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-> stocking-list.h > tml > > Here's some more reading about kuhli's and other loaches. > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php? > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?> article_id= > 618 > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html> > > http://www.aquatic- hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/loaches/kuhliloach.html > (recommends 20G as minimum tank size) > > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii > <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of renee31477 > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? > > I came across some nice looking Kuhli loaches at Meijer last night (they had > a really nice, clean fish department-I was impressed-and that hasnt always > been the case there) > > They are very young(perhaps only about 2 1/2 inches long and thinner than a > pencil) also, they were solid greyish brown in color, not banded like most > loaches I see. > > I was wondering if Kuhli loaches are too big for a 10 gallon. > > Right now I only have 1 male betta in there with live plants. > > I know they are better in groups, what would be the smallest group I could > keep them in? > > thanks > > Renee > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26754	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Varieties & Pics

Mellisa, If you're thinking that each of your different color varieties of Platy's (besides the variatus) are all different species, they are not -- they are simply just that, different color varieties of the same species -- Xiphophorus maculatus. This species has been one of the mainstays in the hobby for many decades, due in part to its many different offerings of color (not to mention its advantages as a community fish, its adaptability and its hardiness -- and oh yes, its ease of breeding). For these reasons, few other Platy species have ever become as popular, even though there are numerous other interesting ones. In catching a talk on Livebearers and the collecting of them last night at our (NJAS) monthly meeting by a well recognized Livebearer enthusiast/speaker (Rit Forcier), I was reminded of some of the now extinct (in the wild) Platy species such as Xiphophorus cochianus (Monterey Platy) which are being kept extant only through the efforts of some dedicated ALA hobbyists (some I'm glad to say, in our club) in this country as well as such noteables as Ivan Dibble of BLA (British Livebearer Association) fame who've taken an interest in such species despite these fishes' lack of more-attractive man-made color through hybridization. I included this only to demonstrate that there are many more Platy species of interest in the hobby, which are virtually unknown by many hobbyists who have access only to the more common ones. I don't know the methods you've employed in searching for "variatus," but this name has no connection to Swordtails (except for the remote possibility of this being yet another color strain of this species, which I still doubt). The only possible connection to be seen is the common use of the Genus name "Xiphophorus" which both of these closely (obviously, very closely) related fish types share -- which is why they're so easily interbred. Xiphophorus variatus is known as the "Sunset Variatus Platy," a fish totally removed on the species level from both X. helleri (common Swordtail), X. maculatus (regular Platy) and any of the other similar (yet different) species in this Genus. BTW, I had reported there were 23 different Xiphophorus species, in my previous reply. I stand corrected; as of 2006 when Rit, Ivan et al made their collecting sojourn throughout Mexico in their quest for various Livebearers, there have been another 4 species added to this list. As for your further descriptions of your fish (i.e., champagne color in one, balloonish shape in the other), I'd like to mention that their have been "variations on a theme"; due to further crossings, there are increased color varieties of X. variatus -- some very similar to the original ttype, and some differing slightly. Yours may be one of the latter, although I'd enjoy seeing a photo of it if possible to further I.D. it. I did not mean to infer that any of your fish's finnage was elongate, but that the body itself is somewhat more elongate (on X. variatus) than that of X. maculatus. If there is no difference, and none have elongated bodies, I'm inclined to believe all your Platy's are X. maculatus. Yes, its not easy to get good photos of our fish, with them constantly on the move at any given moment -- not as easy as it looks. The Balloon Platy's are yet another development of the species through selective breeding, once the trait has shown itself. They are not the result of crossbreeding with Balloon Molly's as one might be easily lead to believe. As you've suggested, with it, it is also the result of inbreeding (and line breeding) for this trait. Different color patterns other than the most recognized established ones may well be the result of unintential cross-breedings of different color strains in which "mutts", such as Lenny points out, are produced. These are no less appreciated by the undiscerning hobbyist and are often stronger fish as a result of it, although care should be taken (restraint should be used) when contemplating the possible sale of their offspring to a pet shop, for instance. Still, this may be a new recognized variety unseen yet by many hobbyists, which just may prove to be popular especially (but not necessarily) if originally sold by your pet shop. The heavy blue spotting, on what's probably a very light blue background is the description of a recognized form/variety of the regular type X. maculatus (Blue Variegated Platy). For this pattern to be on your Balloon Platy merely indicates additional cross breeding of color varieties and body forms of this same species was involved to create yet another form of this same fish. As researching this is still stumping you, you may want to go to < livebearers.org > the official site of the American Livebearers Association, and ask around there. I'm sure there are experts there whom will know more. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <waterlogged1214@...> wrote: > > Thanks Ray, > > I originally figured they would each have their own scientific name, > but I haven't been able to find anything other than the maculatus > name. Everything I found on the variatus name seemed to say > swordtails and I didn't think I had any of those, so I ignored that > line of research entirely. All my platies are your basic average > kind I guess. I don't have any high-fin varieties or any with an > elongated tail. > > When I first starting looking, I figured my orange would be called > something along the lines of "sunset". That was the first thing that > came to my mind. Orange, sunset; I don't know, I thought it fit. But > when I looked it up, the sunset ones I found didn't look anything > like her. They were a champagne color with a dark orange tail. This > one is all orange, from her mouth to her fin. I'll look up the name > you gave me as soon as I get a chance and see if it fits. > > That blue one, I forgot to mention, is also a balloonish shape. > She's not pregnant (at least I hope not, lol) and the tag on the > tank when I bought her said balloon platy. I haven't been able to > find anything about balloon palties either so now I'm wondering if > these platies have been crossbreed with balloon mollies. maybe? Or > maybe its an inbreeding trait? I have no clue. After I got home last > night, I studied her real closely to describe her better. She is so > heavily covered with the dark blue color (which is definitely a blue > and not black) that the pale color is only visible in a thin line on > her underbelly, somewhat on her mouth/face area, and I think her > tail as well. I still can't define whether that pale color is more a > pale blue or a whitish color. > > I'm trying to take pics but they're not cooporating very well and > all I'm getting are blurry ones. I'll do some more internet research > with the info you gave and hopefully it'll help. I'm usually very > good at research but this has stumped me somewhat. > > Thanks > Melissa > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hey back to you Mellisa, For starters, ALL Platies ARE NOT named > > under the scientific name of Xiphophorus maculatus. At last count > > there were 23 different Xiphophorus species, some Platies and some > > Swordtails. Most of the other Xiphophorus species, such as the > > Spiketail Platy (Xiphophorus xiphidium) are rarely, if ever, seen > in > > the hobby. The same too, goes for such other wild species as the > Rio > > Aloyac Platy (X. andersi) and the endangered (Lake)-Catemaco Platy > > (X. milleri). Then too, even such hybrids as Xiphopohorus roseni > are > > seldom seen outside of Livebearer enthusiast's tanks. Most of the > > wild species are somewhat drab in color, even though, they are > quite > > interesting. The same was true with the wild X. maculatus until > it > > was domesticated. > > > > The two most common species in the hobby (and most colorful > because > > of hybridizing) are X. maculatus and X. variatus. They're the > most > > popular species in the hobby because of their many different man- > made > > color variations first produced well over 70 years ago by crossing > > them with Swordtails (X. helleri) and then over the years, to each > > other to subsequently derive the present assortment of color > strains > > now available -- and the only reason why they're so popular in the > > hobby, deservedly so. By your descriptions, your orange-colored > > Platy (fading from a lighter to a somewhat darker shade), is most > > probably a "Sunset" Xiphophorus variatus -- especially if its > > somewhat more elongated than the previous fish. Your pale (pale > > blue?) Platy with its heavy smattering of dark blue and/or black > > spots (dots) sounds to be a "Blue" Variatus Platy (X. variatus - > blue > > strain). This is without actually seeing your fish, but the > > descriptions fit (and do not fit any others). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <waterlogged1214@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey everyone, I have a quick question. I have several different > > > varieties of platies that I am trying to identify. I've been > > internet > > > searching and that hasn't helped me any so I figured maybe you > guys > > > know some good websites to try. I know I have a gold/yellow > mickey > > > mouse, a white mickey mouse, and a red wag one. Those I can > > identify > > > really quickly, but I'm having trouble with 2 others. One is > > > completely orange, with the orange color fading from a lighter > to a > > > somewhat darker shade. The other one is a pale color maybe white > > with > > > a heavy smattering of dark blue or blackish dots which basically > > cover > > > the entire sides of the fish. I've been looking for pictures > with > > > varietal names attached but I haven't found any yet. I can > either > > find > > > pics but no names, or names with no pics. Apparantly all platies > > are > > > named under the scientific name of Xiphophorus maculatus without > > > distinction of colors. Does anyone know of a good site with both > > pics > > > and names? Thanks Melissa > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26755	From: Wendie	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?

I've been keeping them this way since the '50's and was assured by a couple of experts that it was fine. They are huge, fat and active. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:16 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? Wendie, While you may keep 10 kuhli's in a 10G planted tank and you may have been lucky over the past several years, it's simply NOT good for the fish and I'm not sure if you should be advising others to do the same. You're talking 40 inches of fish in a 10G tank. And kuhli's get much fatter than neon tetra's or galaxy rasbora's and I would never recommend putting 40 of either of them in a 10G tank. The fish will almost certainly suffer from stunting unless you are doing very, very frequent PWC's and run lots of chemical filtration. As far as I know, plants do not utilize the hormones excreted by the fish but maybe they do. Every reputable profile I've looked at for kuhli loaches recommend a minimum of 20G for a small shoal of at least three fish but also would say it's much better to keep more than three. As far as the regular kuhli's or black kuhli's, I have no clue what the store has in their tank. Another good reason why a store should put the scientific name on the labels. Black Kuhli's are Pangio Oblonga whereas the more common Kuhli is Pangio Acanthophthalmus Kuhli. There are many other Pangio Kuhli Loaches that are similar in size/shape but have various solid dark colors. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/species-index (Scroll down to Pangio...) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? Kuhlis are a little different from the regular rule of thumb. A well planted 10 gallon tank with hiding places is fine for several kuhlis. I keep about 10 in my tank and they've been there for several years - growing fat. I moved 6 of them from a 5 gallon tank which I used for a few months as a Q tank. The kuhlis you saw are black kuhlis. I have two of those in with the regular kuhlis. One group of kuhlis live in an old log while the balance lives in a cave. ----- Original Message ----- From: renee31477 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:17 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? That's what I figured. I wasnt really married to the idea of having a kuhli loach anyway.... I actually think I may just add neon tetras. Although, should I wait until I get the aquascape in order? (adding/changing a few plants Im only used to having bettas and not tiny, darting fish like neons. Renee --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote> > Yes, kuhli's get too big for a 10G. Now, a single specimen in a well > planted 10G might be OK but loaches prefer to be in groups of three or more > and they grow to 4" so you would be pushing the stocking limits at that > point. Further, since the ones you are looking at are not banded, they may > not be kuhli loaches so you could end up with fish that get much larger. > Also, loaches prefer a sand type or soft substrate. > > For more ideas of other fish for your 10G, take a look at "Hailey's 10 > gallon tank suggested stocking list" which is on my blog. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank- > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-> stocking-list.h > tml > > Here's some more reading about kuhli's and other loaches. > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php? > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?> article_id= > 618 > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html> > > http://www.aquatic- hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/loaches/kuhliloach.html > (recommends 20G as minimum tank size) > > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii > <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of renee31477 > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? > > I came across some nice looking Kuhli loaches at Meijer last night (they had > a really nice, clean fish department-I was impressed-and that hasnt always > been the case there) > > They are very young(perhaps only about 2 1/2 inches long and thinner than a > pencil) also, they were solid greyish brown in color, not banded like most > loaches I see. > > I was wondering if Kuhli loaches are too big for a 10 gallon. > > Right now I only have 1 male betta in there with live plants. > > I know they are better in groups, what would be the smallest group I could > keep them in? > > thanks > > Renee > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 12:00 AM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26756	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta

Correct, my happy little middle aged betta :) I ran out of betta fix for a couple of days, which was when I switched over to Melafix. But after 2 weeks of treating I thought..hmm I dont think third week will accomplish much and thought a better way to go is doing a small water change on him daily as he is back to acting normal (which really only took a coule days of medication to get him to that point). Thanks for all your advice. I will keep you posted if anything on him changes. I am trying to push to get an old aged betta. I was always under the impression they were a fish that lived to be about 5, my thoughtswas well he has another year left, he deserves to live just as much as one of my other animals do. I was delighted to learn from you that they an live much longer. I honestly have never met a person with a betta(and working at a pet store I have known alot of betta owners) that has even made it to the age of mine. I am always amazed when people tell me...oh my betta died. I ask them questions about it and its care, lived like months, told me what they fed it, ask how oten a pwc is done...and I get the answer never! It is amazing that most people seem to do about 90% water change about every 3 weeks to 1 month. I always look at them and ask these people...would you enjoy swimming around in your feces? Geeze! Anyways thanks bunches! ~Melissa --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > If you keep up with frequent PWC's and continue > using the salt at a low > level therapeutic dose, then as long as the fish is > generally acting > healthy, the tail should slowly heal up. > Eventually, you want to slowly > acclimate him back to fresh water with no salt. > > Just to make sure I'm on the same page as you.. this > was the Betta that's > about 4 years old and wasn't feeling well and had > fin rot issues and you've > been treating with Bettafix followed by Melafix on a > subsequent treatment? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Melissa Walker > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 2:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Betta > > > Well he still has not gotten any better. He is still > eating fine, is still > acting normal and is active. His tail has not > deteraited anymore, except the > tips still seem swollen and red. > > I have decided to stop treating him, I dont think he > should be treated 3 > weeks straight. I am still going to give him PWC > daily , and keep his salt > in his tank and hope he can fight it off by himself. > > > Do you guys agree with this idea? Or at least maybe > treat him one week on > and one week off after this till he is better? He is > back to normal, and I > havent treated him with meds for the last 3 days and > he still seems fine > other than the red swollen tips. > > ~Melissa > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - > Release Date: 3/19/2008 > 9:54 AM > > > > ======================================================================== > Groups related to AquaticLife > > ======================================================================== > > tropicalfishclub (254 common members) > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr0&sec=recg > > Fish/Tropical Fish: Welcome! Here, you can post > questions (and answers... > > UniQuaria (224 common members) > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr1&sec=recg > > Hobbies/Aquariums: Join an extensive international > network of avid fr... > > Saltwater_Fish_and_Reef_Aquariums (101 common > members) > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Saltwater_Fish_and_Reef_Aquariums?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr2&sec=recg > > Aquariums/Salt Water Aquariums: Photo by Jason > "Emerald Crab (Mithrax sculptus)" C... > > sunriseandsunset (92 common members) > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sunriseandsunset?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr3&sec=recg > > Movies/Independent: This group is for fans of the > Richard Linklater mo... > > aquaria-freshwater (75 common members) > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaria-freshwater?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr4&sec=recg > > Animals/Marine Life: Open discussion for people with > aquariums to commu... > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26757	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?

Are they reaching full size of 4" and are they living full lifespans of 10+ years? If they are, then congrats to you for keeping up with frequent PWC's and maybe plants do utilize the hormones which cause the stunting/stressing problems so prevalent in many overstocked tanks. So far, none of the studies that I've read about hormone related stunting have experimented with live plants as a way of removing the hormones but most of the studies out there have to do with the fisheries industry which uses bare ponds for raising fry so they have been experimenting with constant turnover of fresh water and advanced chemical filtration methods. I'm not sure who your experts are that said it was fine but I do know there are lots of so-called experts out there in the fish keeping world who are readily dispensing horrible advice on a daily basis. Practical Fishkeeping Magazine (UK) recently did a survey of their local fish stores and pet stores about safely cycling a new tank and 96% of the employees/owners surveyed gave bad advice to their customers. They are currently working on a survey about keeping a couple of fancy goldfish and I'm sure the same high percentage of bad advice will be dispensed about them as well. This is why, we as hobbyists need to double and triple check everything a so-called expert tells us and it's why there are thousands of user forums in existence on the web so that people can try to get good advice on keeping their fish healthy. While your tank may be working for you, make sure you tell people that the tank MUST be heavily planted and/or frequent PWC's MUST be done to give an overstocked tank a chance for long-term success. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 8:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? I've been keeping them this way since the '50's and was assured by a couple of experts that it was fine. They are huge, fat and active. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:16 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? Wendie, While you may keep 10 kuhli's in a 10G planted tank and you may have been lucky over the past several years, it's simply NOT good for the fish and I'm not sure if you should be advising others to do the same. You're talking 40 inches of fish in a 10G tank. And kuhli's get much fatter than neon tetra's or galaxy rasbora's and I would never recommend putting 40 of either of them in a 10G tank. The fish will almost certainly suffer from stunting unless you are doing very, very frequent PWC's and run lots of chemical filtration. As far as I know, plants do not utilize the hormones excreted by the fish but maybe they do. Every reputable profile I've looked at for kuhli loaches recommend a minimum of 20G for a small shoal of at least three fish but also would say it's much better to keep more than three. As far as the regular kuhli's or black kuhli's, I have no clue what the store has in their tank. Another good reason why a store should put the scientific name on the labels. Black Kuhli's are Pangio Oblonga whereas the more common Kuhli is Pangio Acanthophthalmus Kuhli. There are many other Pangio Kuhli Loaches that are similar in size/shape but have various solid dark colors. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/species-index (Scroll down to Pangio...) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? Kuhlis are a little different from the regular rule of thumb. A well planted 10 gallon tank with hiding places is fine for several kuhlis. I keep about 10 in my tank and they've been there for several years - growing fat. I moved 6 of them from a 5 gallon tank which I used for a few months as a Q tank. The kuhlis you saw are black kuhlis. I have two of those in with the regular kuhlis. One group of kuhlis live in an old log while the balance lives in a cave. ----- Original Message ----- From: renee31477 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:17 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? That's what I figured. I wasnt really married to the idea of having a kuhli loach anyway.... I actually think I may just add neon tetras. Although, should I wait until I get the aquascape in order? (adding/changing a few plants Im only used to having bettas and not tiny, darting fish like neons. Renee --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote> > Yes, kuhli's get too big for a 10G. Now, a single specimen in a well > planted 10G might be OK but loaches prefer to be in groups of three or more > and they grow to 4" so you would be pushing the stocking limits at that > point. Further, since the ones you are looking at are not banded, they may > not be kuhli loaches so you could end up with fish that get much larger. > Also, loaches prefer a sand type or soft substrate. > > For more ideas of other fish for your 10G, take a look at "Hailey's 10 > gallon tank suggested stocking list" which is on my blog. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank- > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-> stocking-list.h > tml > > Here's some more reading about kuhli's and other loaches. > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php? > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?> article_id= > 618 > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html> > > http://www.aquatic- hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/loaches/kuhliloach.html > (recommends 20G as minimum tank size) > > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii > <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of renee31477 > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? > > I came across some nice looking Kuhli loaches at Meijer last night (they had > a really nice, clean fish department-I was impressed-and that hasnt always > been the case there) > > They are very young(perhaps only about 2 1/2 inches long and thinner than a > pencil) also, they were solid greyish brown in color, not banded like most > loaches I see. > > I was wondering if Kuhli loaches are too big for a 10 gallon. > > Right now I only have 1 male betta in there with live plants. > > I know they are better in groups, what would be the smallest group I could > keep them in? > > thanks > > Renee No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26758	From: Wendie	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon?

They appear to be slightly over the 4 inches and some of the females are as big as my thumb. Although they've carried eggs I haven't been able to get a spawning that I can see. They get fresh water daily which helps. I've seen the hormone problem with other species, but not with the kuhlis. However, the black kuhlis do not get as heavy as the regular kuhlis. They grow as long though. I was told not to mix the two types, but I've found that there isn't a problem and actually the blacks live with several of the others while the main body of kuhlis live in another complex. There is no fighting among the colors but I have seen males get a bit fiesty when young and around food. Actually years ago it was Axelrod and Innes as they wanted me to join the staff at TFH. Axelrod was impressed with the work I had done with the kuhlis to the point where I was invited to come in and see the operations there. After the meeting they offered me a position. Most recently it was an importer who lectures at various clubs around the country. I've bred plenty of fish over the years, but the little kuhlis have not been one of them. I am thinking about moving them to another tank shortly. I just have to move the fish from that tank to another tank first, then clean it. It got a little dirty from the baby plecos. Breeding the fish is great, but trying to rehome them can be a real problem. I finally ended my trials with bettas when the remaining male from my last spawn died at 4 years of age. Try rehoming 300+ of them! Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? Are they reaching full size of 4" and are they living full lifespans of 10+ years? If they are, then congrats to you for keeping up with frequent PWC's and maybe plants do utilize the hormones which cause the stunting/stressing problems so prevalent in many overstocked tanks. So far, none of the studies that I've read about hormone related stunting have experimented with live plants as a way of removing the hormones but most of the studies out there have to do with the fisheries industry which uses bare ponds for raising fry so they have been experimenting with constant turnover of fresh water and advanced chemical filtration methods. I'm not sure who your experts are that said it was fine but I do know there are lots of so-called experts out there in the fish keeping world who are readily dispensing horrible advice on a daily basis. Practical Fishkeeping Magazine (UK) recently did a survey of their local fish stores and pet stores about safely cycling a new tank and 96% of the employees/owners surveyed gave bad advice to their customers. They are currently working on a survey about keeping a couple of fancy goldfish and I'm sure the same high percentage of bad advice will be dispensed about them as well. This is why, we as hobbyists need to double and triple check everything a so-called expert tells us and it's why there are thousands of user forums in existence on the web so that people can try to get good advice on keeping their fish healthy. While your tank may be working for you, make sure you tell people that the tank MUST be heavily planted and/or frequent PWC's MUST be done to give an overstocked tank a chance for long-term success. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 8:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? I've been keeping them this way since the '50's and was assured by a couple of experts that it was fine. They are huge, fat and active. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:16 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? Wendie, While you may keep 10 kuhli's in a 10G planted tank and you may have been lucky over the past several years, it's simply NOT good for the fish and I'm not sure if you should be advising others to do the same. You're talking 40 inches of fish in a 10G tank. And kuhli's get much fatter than neon tetra's or galaxy rasbora's and I would never recommend putting 40 of either of them in a 10G tank. The fish will almost certainly suffer from stunting unless you are doing very, very frequent PWC's and run lots of chemical filtration. As far as I know, plants do not utilize the hormones excreted by the fish but maybe they do. Every reputable profile I've looked at for kuhli loaches recommend a minimum of 20G for a small shoal of at least three fish but also would say it's much better to keep more than three. As far as the regular kuhli's or black kuhli's, I have no clue what the store has in their tank. Another good reason why a store should put the scientific name on the labels. Black Kuhli's are Pangio Oblonga whereas the more common Kuhli is Pangio Acanthophthalmus Kuhli. There are many other Pangio Kuhli Loaches that are similar in size/shape but have various solid dark colors. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/species-index (Scroll down to Pangio...) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? Kuhlis are a little different from the regular rule of thumb. A well planted 10 gallon tank with hiding places is fine for several kuhlis. I keep about 10 in my tank and they've been there for several years - growing fat. I moved 6 of them from a 5 gallon tank which I used for a few months as a Q tank. The kuhlis you saw are black kuhlis. I have two of those in with the regular kuhlis. One group of kuhlis live in an old log while the balance lives in a cave. ----- Original Message ----- From: renee31477 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:17 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? That's what I figured. I wasnt really married to the idea of having a kuhli loach anyway.... I actually think I may just add neon tetras. Although, should I wait until I get the aquascape in order? (adding/changing a few plants Im only used to having bettas and not tiny, darting fish like neons. Renee --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote> > Yes, kuhli's get too big for a 10G. Now, a single specimen in a well > planted 10G might be OK but loaches prefer to be in groups of three or more > and they grow to 4" so you would be pushing the stocking limits at that > point. Further, since the ones you are looking at are not banded, they may > not be kuhli loaches so you could end up with fish that get much larger. > Also, loaches prefer a sand type or soft substrate. > > For more ideas of other fish for your 10G, take a look at "Hailey's 10 > gallon tank suggested stocking list" which is on my blog. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank- > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-> stocking-list.h > tml > > Here's some more reading about kuhli's and other loaches. > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php? > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?> article_id= > 618 > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html> > > http://www.aquatic- hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/loaches/kuhliloach.html > (recommends 20G as minimum tank size) > > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii > <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of renee31477 > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] kuhli loaches in 10 gallon? > > I came across some nice looking Kuhli loaches at Meijer last night (they had > a really nice, clean fish department-I was impressed-and that hasnt always > been the case there) > > They are very young(perhaps only about 2 1/2 inches long and thinner than a > pencil) also, they were solid greyish brown in color, not banded like most > loaches I see. > > I was wondering if Kuhli loaches are too big for a 10 gallon. > > Right now I only have 1 male betta in there with live plants. > > I know they are better in groups, what would be the smallest group I could > keep them in? > > thanks > > Renee No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26759	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Rain Forest

Does anyone have any good links of tanks people set up to look like rain forests...I am interested in pictures but also written descriptions of what they did thanks Ken **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26760	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Need help for Lighting for Plants for those up for the challenge

Hi Guys, I've always had problems keeping my plants alive and I figured it was due to using poor lighting. I have a 75 gallon tank and I purchased a 48 inch twin tube fluorescent lighting. Now I know this isnt acceptable for plants. Can someone please recommend the type of bulbs that need to be installed in this twin tube lighting for plants such as milfoil, fanwort, and amazon sword plants to grow to the fullest height. I really am looking for specific recommendations ie product name, wattage, etc. thanks Ken **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26761	From: ED	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest

Try terrariams, I used to put a layer of rock and charcoal on the bottom to keep roots from setting in water and rotting. Then layers of soil and I used moss for grass, ming aralia'a for trees. Another source might be some of the African Violet Clubs. I was mamber and did show terrariams for the violet shows. good luck --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@... wrote: > > Does anyone have any good links of tanks people set up to look like rain > forests...I am interested in pictures but also written descriptions of what they > did > > thanks > > Ken > > > > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL > Home. > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15? ncid=aolhom00030000000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26762	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest

This is a cool site: _http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/75g.htm_ (http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/75g.htm) Hope it is rain foresty enuff In a message dated 3/21/2008 4:00:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Iksnip@... writes: Does anyone have any good links of tanks people set up to look like rain forests...I am interested in pictures but also written descriptions of what they did thanks Ken **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26763	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest

Google paludarium. You'll likely come up with some good stuff in those links. A paludarium is half terrarium and half aquarium. I have seen some very well done ones over the years. If you remember the river tank craze in the 90's, that was kind of the idea of a paludarium. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rain Forest Does anyone have any good links of tanks people set up to look like rain forests...I am interested in pictures but also written descriptions of what they did thanks Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26764	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Pristella with eggs.

Sissy, on that note I noticed that of the 3 Pristella, 2 formed a couple in the 10-gal tank (I suppose this is the case since I noticed the one of them kept showing himself repeatedly in front of the other one all day long), while the one that died was isolated and never got any attention from the other 2. So it may be that poor lady Pristella died because she got no attention from a male. I've also heard that Pristella are picky in terms of choosing a partner. Hopefully I'll be able to breed the couple at some point. At this purpose, do you have any web site to suggest where I can get instructions on how to breed Pristella and tetras in general? Thank you, Giuseppe --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Sissy Sathre" <ssathre@...> wrote: > > Lenny is right,you must have a male to stimulated the female to release the > eggs, and they love water changes, it usually stimulates spawning. But most > likely she has been egg bound for quite sometime, and the stress of being > moved just finished her off.. I'm sorry for your loss . This sometimes > happens even if a male is present to stimulate her, I believe this has > something to do the age of the fish. > > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysissy.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:48 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dead Pristella with eggs. > > > Where are the pictures? > > Rebus - A puzzle where you decode a message consisting of pictures > representing syllables and words. (From WordWeb Desktop Dictionary... Yes, I > had to look up "rebus"... I just knew it wasn't a fish. lol) > > It's likely your fish was egg bound. It happens on occasion. People have > tried manual manipulation to help squeeze the eggs out and I've read reports > of limited success with this procedure but more often, it results in the > inevitable death of the fish. You can Google 'egg bound fish' and find > thousands of threads and/or articles on the process. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead Pristella with eggs. > > All, > > I have a rebus for you. Actually, it's a rebus for me but you may have a > simple answer. I've been doing a fishless cycle to a new 46-gal tank for the > past 3 weeks. Well, last Sunday the cycle was over and I gradually moved all > my fish from the 10-gal to the 46-gal. I didn't just throw the fish from one > tank to the other one, but I placed them in a little tank and added 1 cup of > the new aquarium every 5 minutes for a total of 15-20 minutes to acclimate > them to the new water. > After a couple of days I noticed that one of the 3 Pristellas was getting > bigger and I thought that the change might have triggered eggs production. > However, today that Pristella started looking sick. In particular, she lost > most of the color on the fins, she couldn't rest and started swimming all > over the tank but in a way that was evident she was feeling very > uncomfortable. Then she started resting on one side or getting trapped in > plants. I understood she was going to die in a matter of hours or minutes. > At that point I moved her to the 10-gal tank (still running) to avoid that > she could spread infections to the other fish. She died after about 30 > minutes. Now here is the rebus. > When I tried to squeeze her, a lot of eggs came out. So my question is why > she died? Couldn't she just release the eggs? What do you suggest to do if I > see a similar situation in future? > > Thank you, > Giuseppe > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 > 9:54 AM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 > 10:26 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26765	From: circus0s	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: algae problems

I have a 20 gallon tank and I am getting alot of what i think is hair algae,but it is kind of reddish in color.it peels of pretty easy but the past couple of days my fish have been dying,it may or may not be from the algae but dose any one know how to get rid of it? ps I have five fish in the tank,1 neon tetra,1 female guppie,1catfish that looks like a stick,and 2 tetra that i don't know the names of.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26766	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: algae problems

To get rid of algae, you must keep your tank in excellent condition as far as water quality and then keep a balance of low nitrogenous waste with proper lighting. Tell us more about your tank. How long has it been set up? What are your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you may have like GH and KH? How often are you doing PWC's (partial water changes)? How much lighting do you have and how long are you leaving your lights on? What made you think it is hair algae? Have you looked at any pictures on the web? Can you give us a link to what yours looks like? If you don't have a picture or haven't found an identical picture on another website, try looking at these and let us know which is like yours. http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm http://www.freewebs.com/thefishgirl/algea.htm Can you find out what kind of catfish you have? Did you buy it at a store? If yes, ask them what it is as some catfish get very large and a 20G would not be big enough. There are some catfish that do stay small enough for a 20G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of circus0s Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] algae problems I have a 20 gallon tank and I am getting alot of what i think is hair algae,but it is kind of reddish in color.it peels of pretty easy but the past couple of days my fish have been dying,it may or may not be from the algae but dose any one know how to get rid of it? ps I have five fish in the tank,1 neon tetra,1 female guppie,1catfish that looks like a stick,and 2 tetra that i don't know the names of. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26767	From: circus0s	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: algae problems

my tank has been set up for 2 months. I don't know all of the chemicals ive never tested for them. I have put up pics of the algae it is under "harlee's fish tank album" And i have a normal fish light on 24/7. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > To get rid of algae, you must keep your tank in excellent condition as far > as water quality and then keep a balance of low nitrogenous waste with > proper lighting. > > Tell us more about your tank. How long has it been set up? What are your > test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you may > have like GH and KH? How often are you doing PWC's (partial water changes)? > How much lighting do you have and how long are you leaving your lights on? > > What made you think it is hair algae? Have you looked at any pictures on > the web? Can you give us a link to what yours looks like? > > If you don't have a picture or haven't found an identical picture on another > website, try looking at these and let us know which is like yours. > > http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 > > http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm > > http://www.freewebs.com/thefishgirl/algea.htm > > Can you find out what kind of catfish you have? Did you buy it at a store? > If yes, ask them what it is as some catfish get very large and a 20G would > not be big enough. There are some catfish that do stay small enough for a > 20G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of circus0s > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 10:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] algae problems > > I have a 20 gallon tank and I am getting alot of what i think is hair > algae,but it is kind of reddish in color.it peels of pretty easy but the > past couple of days my fish have been dying,it may or may not be from the > algae but dose any one know how to get rid of it? > > ps I have five fish in the tank,1 neon tetra,1 female guppie,1catfish that > looks like a stick,and 2 tetra that i don't know the names of. > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 > 8:10 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26768	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: algae problems

OK. You should go to my blog and then go to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and near the top of that page, there are links to two different online tutorials to teach you the basics of fish keeping. There is no charge for these services. You cannot leave your lights on 24/7. That is a big cause of your algae problems. Your tank lighting should mimic the natural cycle of daylight and nighttime. The way I do it is around 7 a.m. when I wake up, I turn on a lamp to dimly light the room. Then I'll turn on the room lights. Around 9 a.m., I'll turn on the tank lights. Then I reverse this process at night. Around 6-7 p.m., I turn on the room lights and turn off the tank light. Then around 8 p.m., I turn on a lamp and turn off the room lights. I leave this lamp on as long as I am working at my desk but if I do not have work to do, then I turn this lamp off also so the room is dark, like nighttime. This procedure simulates the sun rising, getting brighter, full daylight (tank lights on), nearing dusk, getting dark and then full darkness. Leaving your lights on all of the time will also have an adverse affect on your fishes health as it will cause them stress. In nature, fish get around 12 hours of partial to full lighting and 12 hours of partial to full darkness. You want to mimic this with your fish. You never answered my questions about how often are you doing PWC's. It would be a good idea to at least do weekly 25% PWC's but you may need to do them more frequently but we would need to know your test results to get you on a good schedule. You should also work on getting a Master Test Kit, ASAP, with at least ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH tests. API makes a master test kit for under $20.00 and this kit will last you at least a year even with doing frequent testing. I also have a Tetra-Laborette test kit that has the GH and KH tests, as well as the others. It was also under $20.00 online. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of circus0s Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 11:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: algae problems my tank has been set up for 2 months. I don't know all of the chemicals ive never tested for them. I have put up pics of the algae it is under "harlee's fish tank album" And i have a normal fish light on 24/7. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > To get rid of algae, you must keep your tank in excellent condition as far > as water quality and then keep a balance of low nitrogenous waste with > proper lighting. > > Tell us more about your tank. How long has it been set up? What are your > test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you may > have like GH and KH? How often are you doing PWC's (partial water changes)? > How much lighting do you have and how long are you leaving your lights on? > > What made you think it is hair algae? Have you looked at any pictures on > the web? Can you give us a link to what yours looks like? > > If you don't have a picture or haven't found an identical picture on another > website, try looking at these and let us know which is like yours. > > http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9> > > http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm > <http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm> > > http://www.freewebs.com/thefishgirl/algea.htm > <http://www.freewebs.com/thefishgirl/algea.htm> > > Can you find out what kind of catfish you have? Did you buy it at a store? > If yes, ask them what it is as some catfish get very large and a 20G would > not be big enough. There are some catfish that do stay small enough for a > 20G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of circus0s > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 10:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] algae problems > > I have a 20 gallon tank and I am getting alot of what i think is hair > algae,but it is kind of reddish in color.it peels of pretty easy but > the past couple of days my fish have been dying,it may or may not be from the > algae but dose any one know how to get rid of it? > > ps I have five fish in the tank,1 neon tetra,1 female guppie,1catfish that > looks like a stick,and 2 tetra that i don't know the names of. > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 5:52 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26769	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest

Here are some ideas for a rain forest vivarium: http://www.vivariumconcepts.com/content/view/8/11/ You neglect to mention what kind of critters you wish to put in there. The natural habitat of the critters needs to be replicated, obviously. That's where you start. A rain forest vivarium/terrarium is NOT a plaudarium. If you put frogs in a plaudarium they will croak. Really. Frogs drown really easily. So no frogs. Post again if you can fill us in a bit more. Christa --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > Google paludarium. You'll likely come up with some > good stuff in those > links. A paludarium is half terrarium and half > aquarium. I have seen > some very well done ones over the years. If you > remember the river tank > craze in the 90's, that was kind of the idea of a > paludarium. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Iksnip@... > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rain Forest > > Does anyone have any good links of tanks people set > up to look like rain > > forests...I am interested in pictures but also > written descriptions of > what they > did > > thanks > > Ken > > > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26770	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Need help for Lighting for Plants for those up for the challenge

I'm no lighting expert but we do have a few out here. What are your tank dimensions, primarily the depth, as a deeper tank needs much brighter light to pierce the water down to the plants? What is the wattage on each tube that you currently have installed? Two tubes may not be enough since you want at least 1 watt per gallon and up to 2-3 wpg depending on the plants. If you cannot afford to upgrade your lighting fixture, then you should stick with low-light plants like some of the ones on these pages of very easy and easy plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 I'm sure one of the "experts" will be along to give you more details about how you could upgrade your current lighting at a minimal cost. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help for Lighting for Plants for those up for the challenge Hi Guys, I've always had problems keeping my plants alive and I figured it was due to using poor lighting. I have a 75 gallon tank and I purchased a 48 inch twin tube fluorescent lighting. Now I know this isnt acceptable for plants. Can someone please recommend the type of bulbs that need to be installed in this twin tube lighting for plants such as milfoil, fanwort, and amazon sword plants to grow to the fullest height. I really am looking for specific recommendations ie product name, wattage, etc. thanks Ken No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 5:52 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26771	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest

Christa, Some frogs are truly aquatic frogs and do not need a land mass. Common aquatic frogs are the ADF's (African Dwarf Frogs) and ACF's (African Clawed Frogs). Based on their names alone, they may not fit with the Rain Forest theme but they are true aquatic frogs. Ken Here's a site with lots of info about the Rain Forest http://rainforests.mongabay.com/ and setting up a biotope aquarium. (Scroll down a little to South America section) http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christa Ciglan Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 12:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rain Forest Here are some ideas for a rain forest vivarium: http://www.vivariumconcepts.com/content/view/8/11/ <http://www.vivariumconcepts.com/content/view/8/11/> You neglect to mention what kind of critters you wish to put in there. The natural habitat of the critters needs to be replicated, obviously. That's where you start. A rain forest vivarium/terrarium is NOT a plaudarium. If you put frogs in a plaudarium they will croak. Really. Frogs drown really easily. So no frogs. Post again if you can fill us in a bit more. Christa --- Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: > Google paludarium. You'll likely come up with some good stuff in those > links. A paludarium is half terrarium and half aquarium. I have seen > some very well done ones over the years. If you remember the river > tank craze in the 90's, that was kind of the idea of a paludarium. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... > <mailto:Iksnip%40aol.com> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rain Forest > > Does anyone have any good links of tanks people set up to look like > rain > > forests...I am interested in pictures but also written descriptions of > what they did > > thanks > > Ken > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 5:52 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26772	From: Chris Corley	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Need help for Lighting for Plants for those up for the challenge

You can't go wrong using this type of lighting I had the same question a couple of days ago. http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/PROD/Plant/F15T8-AR-FS If that is not what you want then try this link http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Offset=10&Category_Code=Plant&Previous_Stack_Depth=1&Previous_Stack_1=0 You can pick out what you need, If you go high power as in watts you will need to use CO2. That first link the plants will eat that bulb up. It has the right spectrum and it also will make your fish look good as well. READ this link: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/science-aquatic-lighting/723-9325k-difference.html it has pictures of what it looks like. Good looking if you ask me but I am no expert. Chris C ----- Original Message ----- From: <Iksnip@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:02 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help for Lighting for Plants for those up for the challenge Hi Guys, I've always had problems keeping my plants alive and I figured it was due to using poor lighting. I have a 75 gallon tank and I purchased a 48 inch twin tube fluorescent lighting. Now I know this isnt acceptable for plants. Can someone please recommend the type of bulbs that need to be installed in this twin tube lighting for plants such as milfoil, fanwort, and amazon sword plants to grow to the fullest height. I really am looking for specific recommendations ie product name, wattage, etc. thanks Ken **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26773	From: Pat Majeski	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Need help for Lighting for Plants for those up for the challenge

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@... wrote: >Hi Ken, What type of plants are you trying to grow? Mosses, ferns, cyrpts, and anubias will grow fine with your setup. How long do you keep your lights on? Pat > Hi Guys, > > I've always had problems keeping my plants alive and I figured it was due to > using poor lighting. I have a 75 gallon tank and I purchased a 48 inch twin > tube fluorescent lighting. Now I know this isnt acceptable for plants. Can > someone please recommend the type of bulbs that need to be installed in this > twin tube lighting for plants such as milfoil, fanwort, and amazon sword > plants to grow to the fullest height. I really am looking for specific > recommendations ie product name, wattage, etc. > > thanks > > Ken > > > > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL > Home. > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15? ncid=aolhom00030000000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26774	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest

Some frogs will croak anyway, no matter what type of environment they're kept in -- LOL. Ray (Sorry, that was just too tempting) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Christa Ciglan <cciglan@...> wrote: > > Here are some ideas for a rain forest vivarium: > http://www.vivariumconcepts.com/content/view/8/11/ > > You neglect to mention what kind of critters you wish > to put in there. The natural habitat of the critters > needs to be replicated, obviously. That's where you > start. A rain forest vivarium/terrarium is NOT a > plaudarium. If you put frogs in a plaudarium they > will croak. > > Really. Frogs drown really easily. So no frogs. > Post again if you can fill us in a bit more. > > Christa > --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > Google paludarium. You'll likely come up with some > > good stuff in those > > links. A paludarium is half terrarium and half > > aquarium. I have seen > > some very well done ones over the years. If you > > remember the river tank > > craze in the 90's, that was kind of the idea of a > > paludarium. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Iksnip@... > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:00 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rain Forest > > > > Does anyone have any good links of tanks people set > > up to look like rain > > > > forests...I am interested in pictures but also > > written descriptions of > > what they > > did > > > > thanks > > > > Ken > > > > > > > > > > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26775	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Need help for Lighting for Plants for those up for the ...

trying mainly to grow sword plants and fanworts Ken **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26776	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Duckweed

I just took a look at the duckweed that I am plagued with. It looks like hair is growing from the bottom of it. I would have guessed it to be hair algae but it is floating on the top of the water right under the duckweed. I try to scoop as much of the duckweed as I can every PWC, but it just takes back over. This is in a 10 gallon planted tank. Does anybody know if duckweed produces hair-like stuff? It is not on the sides of the tank or on the gravel - it is also not on the hood. It appears to be attached to the duckweed. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26777	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Pristella with eggs.

Giuseppe, Sorry to hear about your Pristella loss. There are several moderately sized Yahoo groups on the 'Net, dedicated to Tetras, although none specifically for Pristella that I know of. I don't belong to them, but I'm fairly sure they should be able to supply your needed info. As with most (all?) Yahoo groups, you would probably have to join them in order to participate and/or gather information. If interested, you can try the Tetra Fish Group (59 members) @ < www.groups.yahoo.com/group/tetrafish/ > or the Tetras Tetras Tetras Group (53 members) @ < www.groups.yahoo.com/group/tetrastetrastetras/ >. Yet another group you could try is the Cardinal Tetra Club Group (35 members) @ < www.groups.yahoo.com/group/cardinaltetraclub/ >; while devoted mainly to this one Tetra Species, I believe all other members of the Family are discussed. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "giuseppesalvato" <giuseppesalvato@...> wrote: > > Sissy, > > on that note I noticed that of the 3 Pristella, 2 formed a couple in > the 10-gal tank (I suppose this is the case since I noticed the one of > them kept showing himself repeatedly in front of the other one all day > long), while the one that died was isolated and never got any > attention from the other 2. So it may be that poor lady Pristella died > because she got no attention from a male. > I've also heard that Pristella are picky in terms of choosing a > partner. Hopefully I'll be able to breed the couple at some point. At > this purpose, do you have any web site to suggest where I can get > instructions on how to breed Pristella and tetras in general? > > Thank you, > Giuseppe > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Sissy Sathre" <ssathre@> wrote: > > > > Lenny is right,you must have a male to stimulated the female to > release the > > eggs, and they love water changes, it usually stimulates spawning. > But most > > likely she has been egg bound for quite sometime, and the stress of > being > > moved just finished her off.. I'm sorry for your loss . This sometimes > > happens even if a male is present to stimulate her, I believe this has > > something to do the age of the fish. > > > > Sissy Sathre > > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > > www.aquariumsbysissy.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:48 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dead Pristella with eggs. > > > > > > Where are the pictures? > > > > Rebus - A puzzle where you decode a message consisting of pictures > > representing syllables and words. (From WordWeb Desktop > Dictionary... Yes, I > > had to look up "rebus"... I just knew it wasn't a fish. lol) > > > > It's likely your fish was egg bound. It happens on occasion. > People have > > tried manual manipulation to help squeeze the eggs out and I've read > reports > > of limited success with this procedure but more often, it results in the > > inevitable death of the fish. You can Google 'egg bound fish' and find > > thousands of threads and/or articles on the process. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead Pristella with eggs. > > > > All, > > > > I have a rebus for you. Actually, it's a rebus for me but you may have a > > simple answer. I've been doing a fishless cycle to a new 46-gal tank > for the > > past 3 weeks. Well, last Sunday the cycle was over and I gradually > moved all > > my fish from the 10-gal to the 46-gal. I didn't just throw the fish > from one > > tank to the other one, but I placed them in a little tank and added > 1 cup of > > the new aquarium every 5 minutes for a total of 15-20 minutes to > acclimate > > them to the new water. > > After a couple of days I noticed that one of the 3 Pristellas was > getting > > bigger and I thought that the change might have triggered eggs > production. > > However, today that Pristella started looking sick. In particular, > she lost > > most of the color on the fins, she couldn't rest and started > swimming all > > over the tank but in a way that was evident she was feeling very > > uncomfortable. Then she started resting on one side or getting > trapped in > > plants. I understood she was going to die in a matter of hours or > minutes. > > At that point I moved her to the 10-gal tank (still running) to > avoid that > > she could spread infections to the other fish. She died after about 30 > > minutes. Now here is the rebus. > > When I tried to squeeze her, a lot of eggs came out. So my question > is why > > she died? Couldn't she just release the eggs? What do you suggest to > do if I > > see a similar situation in future? > > > > Thank you, > > Giuseppe > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: > 3/19/2008 > > 9:54 AM > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: > 2/20/2008 > > 10:26 AM > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26778	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Duckweed

What color is it? I don't think its anything to be concerned about. Duckweed grows off-color (light-grayish) roots, averaging up to 2' long. If this is what you're seeing its a normal part of the plant. Duckweed can get invasive and its not always easy to control by decreasing the lighting duration, since it has full exposure to any lighting you give it. There are some fish that will eat Duckweed, including occasionally Angelfish, but once it starts overgrowing it can get out of hand. For now, just keep scooping as much as you see to eventually deplete it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <browngip@...> wrote: > > I just took a look at the duckweed that I am plagued with. It looks like hair is growing from the bottom of it. I would have guessed it to be hair algae but it is floating on the top of the water right under the duckweed. I try to scoop as much of the duckweed as I can every PWC, but it just takes back over. This is in a 10 gallon planted tank. Does anybody know if duckweed produces hair-like stuff? It is not on the sides of the tank or on the gravel - it is also not on the hood. It appears to be attached to the duckweed. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Duckweed

That could just be the duckweed roots. Each of the little duckweed plants (like a mini-lily) has a root or roots that extend down into the water. They are short though... not like hair algae. If you know anybody with goldfish, tell them and they'll take your duckweed. Goldfish LOVE it and it's good for their diet. Do you have CO2 injection? If not, you could increase surface agitation with your filter or a powerhead since duckweed doesn't like being pushed into one end of the tank and it will quit growing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 9:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Duckweed I just took a look at the duckweed that I am plagued with. It looks like hair is growing from the bottom of it. I would have guessed it to be hair algae but it is floating on the top of the water right under the duckweed. I try to scoop as much of the duckweed as I can every PWC, but it just takes back over. This is in a 10 gallon planted tank. Does anybody know if duckweed produces hair-like stuff? It is not on the sides of the tank or on the gravel - it is also not on the hood. It appears to be attached to the duckweed. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 5:52 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26780	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Duckweed

As has been mentioned, what you are seeing is most likely the roots of the duckweed which are used to gain nutrients from the water. To help control it, you would need to cut back on the nutrients available in the water, and have a veggie loving fish or two in the tank. As you have found, once it has become established, it is difficult to banish from a tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Duckweed I just took a look at the duckweed that I am plagued with. It looks like hair is growing from the bottom of it. I would have guessed it to be hair algae but it is floating on the top of the water right under the duckweed. I try to scoop as much of the duckweed as I can every PWC, but it just takes back over. This is in a 10 gallon planted tank. Does anybody know if duckweed produces hair-like stuff? It is not on the sides of the tank or on the gravel - it is also not on the hood. It appears to be attached to the duckweed. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26781	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Duckweed

OOPS -- looks like I hit ' (feet) instead of " (inches). Note that Duckweed roots DO NOT grow to 2 feet long (LOL). They will grown to at least 2 " (INCHES) long though. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > What color is it? I don't think its anything to be concerned about. > Duckweed grows off-color (light-grayish) roots, averaging up to 2' > long. If this is what you're seeing its a normal part of the plant. > Duckweed can get invasive and its not always easy to control by > decreasing the lighting duration, since it has full exposure to any > lighting you give it. There are some fish that will eat Duckweed, > including occasionally Angelfish, but once it starts overgrowing it > can get out of hand. For now, just keep scooping as much as you see > to eventually deplete it. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <browngip@> > wrote: > > > > I just took a look at the duckweed that I am plagued with. It > looks like hair is growing from the bottom of it. I would have > guessed it to be hair algae but it is floating on the top of the > water right under the duckweed. I try to scoop as much of the > duckweed as I can every PWC, but it just takes back over. This is in > a 10 gallon planted tank. Does anybody know if duckweed produces > hair-like stuff? It is not on the sides of the tank or on the > gravel - it is also not on the hood. It appears to be attached to > the duckweed. > > > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26782	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Duckweed

Yep.they are called roots ;-) Get some angels (and a larger tank *grin*).they love it. I get duckweed during the spring and summer from a local landscaper, it grows like crazy in their displays. It lasts a couple of days before the angels(and other fish) eat it all up. It would be a good excuse to get a large tank and some beautiful angels hehehehe. I am sure any primarily vegetarian fish would also suffice. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 9:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Duckweed I just took a look at the duckweed that I am plagued with. It looks like hair is growing from the bottom of it. I would have guessed it to be hair algae but it is floating on the top of the water right under the duckweed. I try to scoop as much of the duckweed as I can every PWC, but it just takes back over. This is in a 10 gallon planted tank. Does anybody know if duckweed produces hair-like stuff? It is not on the sides of the tank or on the gravel - it is also not on the hood. It appears to be attached to the duckweed. Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26783	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Tank mates.

Ok, my blue/three spot gourami is full grown and maybe even old. He is in a tank with a long finned black skirt tetra. I read online that these bigger gouramis cannot be in tanks with fish smaller than themselves. Yet, the black skirt tetra is smaller than him, and they have been together for at least a few years. They don't fight. I want to get some male guppies. I have a small tank I can keep some in, but it is kind of urgent that this person get rid of the guppies they have and I only have a 5 gallon tank available that is empty. I read online 10 gallons for 15-20 guppies is just fine. Does that mean 5 gallons for 10 guppies is ok too? It has filtration, gravel, fake plants, and I think I might even have a heater for it (though I also read they want 65-75 degree water, and it is warm enough in the house to keep tham at least at 75). I don't have a bubbler for the 5 gallon, though. I want to know if it would be ok to put some guppies in with the big (about 6 inches long) blue/three spot gourami and black skirt tetra...or will they get eatn by the gourami? I would only put adult guppies in with them, so they are as big as popssible to prevent them from being eaten. Anyway, I guess that is what I want to know...oh, wait...one more thing... My powder blue dwarf gourami in my other tank was being picked on by my juvenile dalmation mollies. They looked like they were pecking at him...and he may be missing a few scales. They pick at him until he is laying on his side trying to swim away from him. So I took the mollies out and put them in another tank. Now, the powder blue dwarf gourami is hanging out a lot at the bottom of the tank. He used to hide in the floating plant all the time. Is he ok? The tank temp was cranked up to fight Ich...and I have turned it back down...could he have been too hot? It was like 83 in there... He also spends a lot of time with his mouth pointed toward the top...like he is standing on his tail...but in the middle of the water, or on the bottom, or at the top. Like all the time. What is going on? Recently checked levels in all tanks and tests report most is well (would say all but I have varying pH in tanks that get their water from the same source - unless the bathroom water is different than the kitchen water - and the ammonia was a little high in a couple of them, but not outrageously high). Any and all info/advice appreciated :-) thanks :-) anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26784	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Tank mates.

With regard to your gourami and tetra, they probably have not had internet access, so they do not know how to behave. Shame on you for denying the access they need! <g> Actually, fish to vary from what is the norm of their species. Some are more aggressive, others, less. It could also be that the tetra does not violate what the gourami sees as its territory. Without that trigger, there is no violence. As for the guppies, I'd only place a trio (one male, two females) in the 5 gallon tank. I would think that the gourami would not eat the guppies, but they may rapidly become tattered, since they would occupy some of the same space that the gourami would, and they may be viewed as intruders. The dwarf gourami may have internal injuries from the treatment given it by the mollies. I'd quarantine him and add salt to the water to help him recover. The heat was in the tank where the dwarf still is? The 83 degree temperature should have been no problem for either species to handle. You do not mention the temperature now, but it probably would be best in the upper 70's. Without numbers from your tests, we really do not know if well is, well, well. pH will vary between tanks because of the biological load and activity in the tanks. Any ammonia in the tanks is to be corrected ASAP. Any ammonia can be toxic to the fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank mates. Ok, my blue/three spot gourami is full grown and maybe even old. He is in a tank with a long finned black skirt tetra. I read online that these bigger gouramis cannot be in tanks with fish smaller than themselves. Yet, the black skirt tetra is smaller than him, and they have been together for at least a few years. They don't fight. I want to get some male guppies. I have a small tank I can keep some in, but it is kind of urgent that this person get rid of the guppies they have and I only have a 5 gallon tank available that is empty. I read online 10 gallons for 15-20 guppies is just fine. Does that mean 5 gallons for 10 guppies is ok too? It has filtration, gravel, fake plants, and I think I might even have a heater for it (though I also read they want 65-75 degree water, and it is warm enough in the house to keep tham at least at 75). I don't have a bubbler for the 5 gallon, though. I want to know if it would be ok to put some guppies in with the big (about 6 inches long) blue/three spot gourami and black skirt tetra...or will they get eatn by the gourami? I would only put adult guppies in with them, so they are as big as popssible to prevent them from being eaten. Anyway, I guess that is what I want to know...oh, wait...one more thing... My powder blue dwarf gourami in my other tank was being picked on by my juvenile dalmation mollies. They looked like they were pecking at him...and he may be missing a few scales. They pick at him until he is laying on his side trying to swim away from him. So I took the mollies out and put them in another tank. Now, the powder blue dwarf gourami is hanging out a lot at the bottom of the tank. He used to hide in the floating plant all the time. Is he ok? The tank temp was cranked up to fight Ich...and I have turned it back down...could he have been too hot? It was like 83 in there... He also spends a lot of time with his mouth pointed toward the top...like he is standing on his tail...but in the middle of the water, or on the bottom, or at the top. Like all the time. What is going on? Recently checked levels in all tanks and tests report most is well (would say all but I have varying pH in tanks that get their water from the same source - unless the bathroom water is different than the kitchen water - and the ammonia was a little high in a couple of them, but not outrageously high). Any and all info/advice appreciated :-) thanks :-) anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26785	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/22/2008
Subject: Re: Tank mates.

Hi Anndrea, Whenever you refer to reading something online, try to provide a link to what you were reading so we can see what you are seeing. We don't know if you are reading a forum post from someone who does not know what they are talking about or maybe it's a website article that appears to know what they are talking about but they may not. There are still dozens, if not hundreds of websites that talk about stocking goldfish using the 1" fish-killing rule. While guppies can be kept in a 10G tank, 15-20 is way too many... it would not good for them and a 5G is much worse. They are breeding machines so unless you are going to keep all males, a 10G tank will quickly become overcrowded (if you have hiding places for the fry) or the water will become foul from the adult fish eating and pooping all the fry. In either case, if you absolutely must keep guppies in a 10G, I would stick to up to 6 males. For the 5G as a temporary home, you could handle a couple of males. The best place to read good profiles on your fish which will tell you what their needs are and what fish are usually compatible with them, etc., is http://fish.mongabay.com Just use the search field and enter your fish common name and you'll find the profile and try to follow the instructions/directions in the profiles as far as tank size, water parameters, suggested companions, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank mates. Ok, my blue/three spot gourami is full grown and maybe even old. He is in a tank with a long finned black skirt tetra. I read online that these bigger gouramis cannot be in tanks with fish smaller than themselves. Yet, the black skirt tetra is smaller than him, and they have been together for at least a few years. They don't fight. I want to get some male guppies. I have a small tank I can keep some in, but it is kind of urgent that this person get rid of the guppies they have and I only have a 5 gallon tank available that is empty. I read online 10 gallons for 15-20 guppies is just fine. Does that mean 5 gallons for 10 guppies is ok too? It has filtration, gravel, fake plants, and I think I might even have a heater for it (though I also read they want 65-75 degree water, and it is warm enough in the house to keep tham at least at 75). I don't have a bubbler for the 5 gallon, though. I want to know if it would be ok to put some guppies in with the big (about 6 inches long) blue/three spot gourami and black skirt tetra...or will they get eatn by the gourami? I would only put adult guppies in with them, so they are as big as popssible to prevent them from being eaten. Anyway, I guess that is what I want to know...oh, wait...one more thing... My powder blue dwarf gourami in my other tank was being picked on by my juvenile dalmation mollies. They looked like they were pecking at him...and he may be missing a few scales. They pick at him until he is laying on his side trying to swim away from him. So I took the mollies out and put them in another tank. Now, the powder blue dwarf gourami is hanging out a lot at the bottom of the tank. He used to hide in the floating plant all the time. Is he ok? The tank temp was cranked up to fight Ich...and I have turned it back down...could he have been too hot? It was like 83 in there... He also spends a lot of time with his mouth pointed toward the top...like he is standing on his tail...but in the middle of the water, or on the bottom, or at the top. Like all the time. What is going on? Recently checked levels in all tanks and tests report most is well (would say all but I have varying pH in tanks that get their water from the same source - unless the bathroom water is different than the kitchen water - and the ammonia was a little high in a couple of them, but not outrageously high). Any and all info/advice appreciated :-) thanks :-) anndrea No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 5:52 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26786	From: Anndrea	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tank mates.

> With regard to your gourami and tetra, they probably have not had > internet access, so they do not know how to behave. Shame on you for > denying the access they need! <g> LOL, TOO FUNNY :-) > Actually, fish to vary from what is > the norm of their species. Some are more aggressive, others, less. It > could also be that the tetra does not violate what the gourami sees as > its territory. Without that trigger, there is no violence. Well, I got them from a lady who says she had the two of them (AND a pleco) in the little 5 gallon tank for 3 years. The gourami is a good 6 inches. I couldn't bear to watch them have no room, so I put them in a 10 gallon as soon as I could get my hands on one. The Gourami's "feelers"(?) look almost segmented or bent in a lot of places....my guess is the tank was too little even just for him, let alone him, black skirt, and pleco (which, the lady told me, the gourami killed the pleco and some other fish she tried to put in with them). > As for the guppies, I'd only place a trio (one male, two females) in the > 5 gallon tank. Well, I am SO NOT wanting to breed fish. The swordtail appeared to have come to me pregnant...lol. I am going to try to get all males. If I have to get females, I was asking about putting some in with the gourami so I could separate the males and females. Just have to cross my fingers none of THEM are already pregnant. > I would think that the gourami would not eat the guppies, but they may > rapidly become tattered, since they would occupy some of the same space > that the gourami would, and they may be viewed as intruders. So, if I put a few in, and look at them a couple times a day (morning and night when I feed them) at a minimum, and see them getting even a little tattered...and then take them out and put into something else or give them away...would they be ok? Regrow the fins that get tattered, if they do? > The dwarf gourami may have internal injuries from the treatment given it > by the mollies. I'd quarantine him and add salt to the water to help him > recover. Well, I took the offenders out and put them in a different tank (not with the big gourami either, although if I did that I could get the guppies in where they are). I've never seen any other fish bother the dwarf gourami, so I think he will be safe from further harm. Is there another reason to quarantine him? Oh, and there is salt in the tank he is in (was fighting Ich in that tank, and am gradually turning the heater back down, and going to start the partial water changes once it is back to a normal temp). > > The heat was in the tank where the dwarf still is? Yes. > The 83 degree > temperature should have been no problem for either species to handle. > You do not mention the temperature now, but it probably would be best in > the upper 70's. That is what I am aiming for...about 76-78...where I had it before the Ich. > Without numbers from your tests, we really do not know if well is, well, > well. pH will vary between tanks because of the biological load and > activity in the tanks. Any ammonia in the tanks is to be corrected ASAP. > Any ammonia can be toxic to the fish. Well, I posted my levels in another thread, but here they are again: 10 gallon hexagon tank with (now) 3 juvenile dalmation mollies, 1 silver molly, 4 GLOfish, 2 neon tetra, and 1 chinese algae eater...Ammonia=.25...pH=6.5...Nitrites=0...Nitrates=80. 10 gallon rectangular tank with big blue gourami and black skirt tetra...Ammonia=.50...pH=7.5...Nitrites=0...Nitrates=80. 20 gallon rectangular with 3 adult swordtails (think we lost #4 to Ich or something), 20ish baby swordtails in a breeder net, 2 adult mollies, 2 red wag platys, 1 sunset mickey mouse platy, 1 sunset platy, 1 powder blue dwarf gourami, and 1 chinese algae eater...Ammonia=.50...pH=6.5...Nitrites=0...Nitrates=40. I don't likst my water hardness because the reading is off the charts to the high end...but that is what all the water around here is, and the fish are used to it, or something like that. I know I am a little overstocked...really I feel just a little, because I would only keep a baby or two of the swordtails (rehome the rest), and the chinese algae eaters will be rehomed before they get too big. I was given bad info on the chinese algae eaters and will be getting some other kind of algea eater that only gets to a few inches...I forget what they are called. I also have to get another female or two of the mickey mouse platys because the one I have is being harassed by the other three platys (1 sunset, 2 red wag) and I think that is becuase it may be the only female. (not sure if it is female, but body shape makes me think so...I can never get them to hold still to look at fins...lol) anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26787	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Powerheads

Can somebody explain to me what exactly a powerhead does? I see a lot of them on Craigs List but am not completely understanding what purpose they do and how they work (do they hook onto a HOB or air pump?)? Are they useful for planted tanks? Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26788	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Powerheads

A powerhead is just an underwater water pump. It has an intake, the motor/impeller and then an output. They are generally small so people can put them in a corner or behind something to hide them. They are generally used to just move water around in a tank but people also hook the intake up to a UGF filter system or sponge filter to draw a larger water volume through the UGF/sponge. They do not hook up to an air pump... an air pump pumps air, a powerhead pumps water. There's no need to hook them up to an HOB since an HOB already has it's own pump. Some fish, like fast moving waters so people might add one or two powerheads to their tanks to increase water circulation inside the tank. SW tanks with coral needs lots of water circulation so people will often have them in that type of setup as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Powerheads Can somebody explain to me what exactly a powerhead does? I see a lot of them on Craigs List but am not completely understanding what purpose they do and how they work (do they hook onto a HOB or air pump?)? Are they useful for planted tanks? Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/2008 4:43 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26789	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Prepping Tank for Betta

I finally picked up a filter and a heater for my 10 gallon tank, making for a totally freecycled ensemble (yay!). I'm cleaning the tank right now and I have a few questions: How many inches should I leave between the top of the tank and the water line? I know bettas breathe air and I may eventually have a light on top of the tank (I have one now but wasn't planning on running it until I get some plants). I was thinking of filling the tank about half full for now (it'll be deeper than the round bowl my betta is currently in) for ease of adding plants later. The filter I picked up is an in-tank whisper that works for up to 20 gallon tanks. I was wondering if it is okay to fill the tank to just cover the slits in the bottom of the filter. I am also wondering if this will cause an issue with the side mount heater I have (I have no idea what brand it is - it is a glass tube filled with a circuit board at the top, a light in the middle and a coil at the bottom). Thanks! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26790	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Powerheads

Powerheads are water pumps. They first became popular with undergravel filters. They have a number of uses. They can be used for increased circulation, they may be used to move water to and/or from a sump tank, etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 1:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Powerheads Can somebody explain to me what exactly a powerhead does? I see a lot of them on Craigs List but am not completely understanding what purpose they do and how they work (do they hook onto a HOB or air pump?)? Are they useful for planted tanks? Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26791	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Lana, The rule of thumb is to fill the tank to within one inch of the top. Your idea of filling it only half way is good for the betta. However, for you to do this, you will need to use some different equipment than you have now. You'll need to replace the Whisper, in any case, with a sponge filter. You will need an air pump to drive the sponge filter. The Whisper will simply provide too much water flow for your betta. You will also need to get a submersible heater for the half full tank. A heater needs to be submersed to a certain point so that the thermostat can get an accurate reading of the water temperature. The half full tank will not provide the depth you need for the heater you have. With the submersible heater, you can place it horizontally in the tank, near the substrate, which makes it easier to hide <g>. The original _Betta splendens_ comes from relatively warm, shallow waters that are still (think swamp). Unless you have a Pla Ket (which is very close to the original, water movement is even more important, since the longer fins of the fancier varieties makes it even harder for the fish in a tank with rapid water movement. They will find an area of the tank with relatively still water and hang there. Usually, it is a back corner--not providing optimal viewing for you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 4:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Prepping Tank for Betta I finally picked up a filter and a heater for my 10 gallon tank, making for a totally freecycled ensemble (yay!). I'm cleaning the tank right now and I have a few questions: How many inches should I leave between the top of the tank and the water line? I know bettas breathe air and I may eventually have a light on top of the tank (I have one now but wasn't planning on running it until I get some plants). I was thinking of filling the tank about half full for now (it'll be deeper than the round bowl my betta is currently in) for ease of adding plants later. The filter I picked up is an in-tank whisper that works for up to 20 gallon tanks. I was wondering if it is okay to fill the tank to just cover the slits in the bottom of the filter. I am also wondering if this will cause an issue with the side mount heater I have (I have no idea what brand it is - it is a glass tube filled with a circuit board at the top, a light in the middle and a coil at the bottom). Thanks! -Lana

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26792	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Thanks Steve! I guess the half-full tank is out then as I'm at the mercy of what equipment I can get for free. :) I was planning on putting the whisper on the side of the tank that I can't see from the couch since it is so huge. My betta is female, so she is very short finned in comparison to the males. If I do the full tank (1" within top), do you think the whisper will work for my betta? Thanks! -Lana On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > Lana, > > The rule of thumb is to fill the tank to within one inch of the top. > Your idea of filling it only half way is good for the betta. However, > for you to do this, you will need to use some different equipment than > you have now. You'll need to replace the Whisper, in any case, with a > sponge filter. You will need an air pump to drive the sponge filter. The > Whisper will simply provide too much water flow for your betta. You will > also need to get a submersible heater for the half full tank. A heater > needs to be submersed to a certain point so that the thermostat can get > an accurate reading of the water temperature. The half full tank will > not provide the depth you need for the heater you have. With the > submersible heater, you can place it horizontally in the tank, near the > substrate, which makes it easier to hide <g>. > > The original _Betta splendens_ comes from relatively warm, shallow > waters that are still (think swamp). Unless you have a Pla Ket (which is > very close to the original, water movement is even more important, since > the longer fins of the fancier varieties makes it even harder for the > fish in a tank with rapid water movement. They will find an area of the > tank with relatively still water and hang there. Usually, it is a back > corner--not providing optimal viewing for you. > > \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26793	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

I bring the water up to the bottom of the black frame. That should still leave about an inch of air space. Does the light fixture use fluorescent or incandescent bulbs? If incandescent, then you could either raise the hood a little to increase air circulation or lower the water a little. Incandescent bulbs put out a lot of heat and will actually warm the water quite a bit in a 10G tank, compared to fluorescent bulbs which are cool to the touch. You definitely want as much water as possible. You need it to cover the heater completely and the more water, the more stabile the parameters. And it will dilute the fish waste more so the water will stay in better shape between PWC's. Also, more water will mean a little calmer water since the filter will have to circulate 10G instead of 5G. Bettas don't like a lot of circulation so you might have to move the filter to one corner of the tank and use some plants or decorations where the water discharges back into the tank to diffuse the flow a little. Look for a model number on the heater and then we should be able to find the brand. I just want to make sure it's a fully submersible heater. Some of the much older models were not fully submersible. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 3:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Prepping Tank for Betta I finally picked up a filter and a heater for my 10 gallon tank, making for a totally freecycled ensemble (yay!). I'm cleaning the tank right now and I have a few questions: How many inches should I leave between the top of the tank and the water line? I know bettas breathe air and I may eventually have a light on top of the tank (I have one now but wasn't planning on running it until I get some plants). I was thinking of filling the tank about half full for now (it'll be deeper than the round bowl my betta is currently in) for ease of adding plants later. The filter I picked up is an in-tank whisper that works for up to 20 gallon tanks. I was wondering if it is okay to fill the tank to just cover the slits in the bottom of the filter. I am also wondering if this will cause an issue with the side mount heater I have (I have no idea what brand it is - it is a glass tube filled with a circuit board at the top, a light in the middle and a coil at the bottom). Thanks! -Lana No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/2008 4:43 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26794	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tank mates.

When people are giving up fish (or any other animal) they may have, take whatever they say with a grain of salt (my other half who does rescue would say a mound--but let us be generous here). You do not mention where the fish grew to six inches, but it certainly was not in the 5 gallon tank. The kinks you see could be from many causes. If there are lumps at any of the kinks, or a white area, that means that the feeler was nipped, or otherwise broken, and re-grew. It could be genetics. It could be water quality. It could be a combination. If the females have been living with the males, they could give you up to 6 broods of young from sperm that has been stored in their bodies. Separating them when you get them will eventually stop the cycle, but not until the sperm has been used. You are potentially looking at a lot of fry from the females you get. Keeping the males together may not be the best situation either. They can get feisty among themselves with no females present to court, and may also take it out on other fish. They live to breed. I would not do it period. Yes, tattered fins will re-grow, but the damage is always visible. If the fins get to a certain point, they will not re-grow. Or, the fish could be done for before you can even make a move to save them, if you are there watching. If not, they will just be gone. Of course, it could work out just fine, but you mentioned this was a 10 gallon tank, which is already overstocked with the two fish you have in there. I'll get to your test readings later. For your dwarf gourami, the quarantine is to keep him out of harm's way. He has been beat up, and is hurting. He will hide to protect himself,. And he will be stressed because others will know he is hurt an may go after him (Darwin and all that). Putting him in the quarantine tank will give him sanctuary, and his recovery, should he be able to recover, will go faster without the stressors of other tank inhabitants. Anytime you talk about your testing, you should give the results, with the numbers. It may not connect that you are the same person in another thread, and if they change, it is important to know. The ammonia levels in your tanks are worrisome, especially since we are not seeing any nitrites. It suggests that the tanks have not cycled. It also could be due to the fact your tanks are overstocked. What you need to do now is to give your fish some help. Get some Ultimate from Hikari USA and follow the directions on the container. This will change the ammonia to a non-toxic form, while still giving the bacteria colonies a chance to utilize it and grow to a suitable size to utilize all the ammonia that is being produced. You will likely need a new ammonia test kit when you use this product, a salicylate ammonia test kit (reading from yellow to green to blue-green in test results) rather than the Nessler kit (shades of yellow or amber) you are probably using now. As a matter of fact, it may be the choice for all aquarists as the salicylate kits are far more accurate at the levels we need to test for than are the Nessler kits. Also, as with Amquel, the Nessler kit will give a false reading when you use Ultimate. Also note that at higher pH levels, ammonia is more toxic to fish. You might wish to peruse (or stumble, as the case may be) this article by Neil Frank about this fact at http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html. Nevertheless, the ammonia issue needs to be dealt with promptly (some may suggest Bio-spyra (sp?), but it is difficult to find and needs to be shipped properly, if mail ordered, adding to the cost. Some may be shocked by your nitrate levels, but don't listen to them. They are OK for now, and once the ammonia thing is straightened out, we can have another look at that. So long as you stay under 150-200 ppm, you should be OK. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank mates. > With regard to your gourami and tetra, they probably have not had > internet access, so they do not know how to behave. Shame on you for > denying the access they need! <g> LOL, TOO FUNNY :-) > Actually, fish to vary from what is > the norm of their species. Some are more aggressive, others, less. It > could also be that the tetra does not violate what the gourami sees as > its territory. Without that trigger, there is no violence. Well, I got them from a lady who says she had the two of them (AND a pleco) in the little 5 gallon tank for 3 years. The gourami is a good 6 inches. I couldn't bear to watch them have no room, so I put them in a 10 gallon as soon as I could get my hands on one. The Gourami's "feelers"(?) look almost segmented or bent in a lot of places....my guess is the tank was too little even just for him, let alone him, black skirt, and pleco (which, the lady told me, the gourami killed the pleco and some other fish she tried to put in with them). > As for the guppies, I'd only place a trio (one male, two females) in the > 5 gallon tank. Well, I am SO NOT wanting to breed fish. The swordtail appeared to have come to me pregnant...lol. I am going to try to get all males. If I have to get females, I was asking about putting some in with the gourami so I could separate the males and females. Just have to cross my fingers none of THEM are already pregnant. > I would think that the gourami would not eat the guppies, but they may > rapidly become tattered, since they would occupy some of the same space > that the gourami would, and they may be viewed as intruders. So, if I put a few in, and look at them a couple times a day (morning and night when I feed them) at a minimum, and see them getting even a little tattered...and then take them out and put into something else or give them away...would they be ok? Regrow the fins that get tattered, if they do? > The dwarf gourami may have internal injuries from the treatment given it > by the mollies. I'd quarantine him and add salt to the water to help him > recover. Well, I took the offenders out and put them in a different tank (not with the big gourami either, although if I did that I could get the guppies in where they are). I've never seen any other fish bother the dwarf gourami, so I think he will be safe from further harm. Is there another reason to quarantine him? Oh, and there is salt in the tank he is in (was fighting Ich in that tank, and am gradually turning the heater back down, and going to start the partial water changes once it is back to a normal temp). > > The heat was in the tank where the dwarf still is? Yes. > The 83 degree > temperature should have been no problem for either species to handle. > You do not mention the temperature now, but it probably would be best in > the upper 70's. That is what I am aiming for...about 76-78...where I had it before the Ich. > Without numbers from your tests, we really do not know if well is, well, > well. pH will vary between tanks because of the biological load and > activity in the tanks. Any ammonia in the tanks is to be corrected ASAP. > Any ammonia can be toxic to the fish. Well, I posted my levels in another thread, but here they are again: 10 gallon hexagon tank with (now) 3 juvenile dalmation mollies, 1 silver molly, 4 GLOfish, 2 neon tetra, and 1 chinese algae eater...Ammonia=.25...pH=6.5...Nitrites=0...Nitrates=80. 10 gallon rectangular tank with big blue gourami and black skirt tetra...Ammonia=.50...pH=7.5...Nitrites=0...Nitrates=80. 20 gallon rectangular with 3 adult swordtails (think we lost #4 to Ich or something), 20ish baby swordtails in a breeder net, 2 adult mollies, 2 red wag platys, 1 sunset mickey mouse platy, 1 sunset platy, 1 powder blue dwarf gourami, and 1 chinese algae eater...Ammonia=.50...pH=6.5...Nitrites=0...Nitrates=40. I don't likst my water hardness because the reading is off the charts to the high end...but that is what all the water around here is, and the fish are used to it, or something like that. I know I am a little overstocked...really I feel just a little, because I would only keep a baby or two of the swordtails (rehome the rest), and the chinese algae eaters will be rehomed before they get too big. I was given bad info on the chinese algae eaters and will be getting some other kind of algea eater that only gets to a few inches...I forget what they are called. I also have to get another female or two of the mickey mouse platys because the one I have is being harassed by the other three platys (1 sunset, 2 red wag) and I think that is becuase it may be the only female. (not sure if it is female, but body shape makes me think so...I can never get them to hold still to look at fins...lol) anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26795	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

The flow from the Whisper is likely to be too strong still, but you can try it. If he behaves as I described earlier, you'll need to determine how to reduce the flow. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Prepping Tank for Betta Thanks Steve! I guess the half-full tank is out then as I'm at the mercy of what equipment I can get for free. :) I was planning on putting the whisper on the side of the tank that I can't see from the couch since it is so huge. My betta is female, so she is very short finned in comparison to the males. If I do the full tank (1" within top), do you think the whisper will work for my betta? Thanks! -Lana On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > Lana, > > The rule of thumb is to fill the tank to within one inch of the top. > Your idea of filling it only half way is good for the betta. However, > for you to do this, you will need to use some different equipment than > you have now. You'll need to replace the Whisper, in any case, with a > sponge filter. You will need an air pump to drive the sponge filter. The > Whisper will simply provide too much water flow for your betta. You will > also need to get a submersible heater for the half full tank. A heater > needs to be submersed to a certain point so that the thermostat can get > an accurate reading of the water temperature. The half full tank will > not provide the depth you need for the heater you have. With the > submersible heater, you can place it horizontally in the tank, near the > substrate, which makes it easier to hide <g>. > > The original _Betta splendens_ comes from relatively warm, shallow > waters that are still (think swamp). Unless you have a Pla Ket (which is > very close to the original, water movement is even more important, since > the longer fins of the fancier varieties makes it even harder for the > fish in a tank with rapid water movement. They will find an area of the > tank with relatively still water and hang there. Usually, it is a back > corner--not providing optimal viewing for you. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26796	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I bring the water up to the bottom of the black frame. That should still > leave about an inch of air space. Does the light fixture use fluorescent > or > incandescent bulbs? If incandescent, then you could either raise the hood > a > little to increase air circulation or lower the water a little. They're incandescent so I'll probably end up lowering the water a little then. Would 2" from the top be enough? Look for a model number on the heater and then we should be able to find the > brand. I just want to make sure it's a fully submersible heater. Some of > the much older models were not fully submersible. It definitely looks older! Once I got it clean I noticed it says Hartz on the top. The underside specifies that it is 50 watts. No model numbers that I can find. I can take a picture and email it to you if you'd like. Thanks! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26797	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Hartz is enough. It is oversized for the tank, unless the tank is to be in a pretty cool room. I'd keep a weather eye on the temperature. Hartz was never known for its quality. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Prepping Tank for Betta On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I bring the water up to the bottom of the black frame. That should still > leave about an inch of air space. Does the light fixture use fluorescent > or > incandescent bulbs? If incandescent, then you could either raise the hood > a > little to increase air circulation or lower the water a little. They're incandescent so I'll probably end up lowering the water a little then. Would 2" from the top be enough? Look for a model number on the heater and then we should be able to find the > brand. I just want to make sure it's a fully submersible heater. Some of > the much older models were not fully submersible. It definitely looks older! Once I got it clean I noticed it says Hartz on the top. The underside specifies that it is 50 watts. No model numbers that I can find. I can take a picture and email it to you if you'd like. Thanks! -Lana

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26798	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Melafix

Does Melafix always leave an oily film on the water surface? Does this eventually go away or will the PWC take care of it? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26799	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Thanks Steve, Right now my betta is in an unheated .5 gallon bowl and we haven't been running the house heat. She gets as chilly as 66 at times (when we're running the heat she's closer to 72). I did buy a thermometer for the 10G tank because I wasn't confident in the heater not having a readout. Should I put the thermometer near the heater or on the opposite side of the tank? Thanks! -Lana On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > Hartz is enough. It is oversized for the tank, unless the tank is to be > in a pretty cool room. I'd keep a weather eye on the temperature. Hartz > was never known for its quality. > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26800	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Melafix

I don't recall Melafix leaving a film when I've used it in the past but if you had a high level of DOC's or protein in the water, I guess it could react with them causing them to float to the surface. Even without Melafix, some tanks will get this oily film on the surface. It happens more often with carnivorous fish which are fed higher protein based foods. It's also one of the main reasons for a protein skimmer in SW set ups. Did you do at least one PWC prior to starting the Melafix? Most meds prescribe doing one or more PWC's to get the water in good shape prior to using the meds. It won't hurt to do a 25% PWC and just re-dose the 25% of Melafix that you remove with the water. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Melafix Does Melafix always leave an oily film on the water surface? Does this eventually go away or will the PWC take care of it? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/2008 4:43 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26801	From: „¤*?*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*?*¤„	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

My sons whisper filter has it where you can raise or lower the speed that it pulls the water through. On the high speed it was too much for his smaller guppies so we keep it on the low setting. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prepping Tank for Betta The flow from the Whisper is likely to be too strong still, but you can try it. If he behaves as I described earlier, you'll need to determine how to reduce the flow. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Prepping Tank for Betta Thanks Steve! I guess the half-full tank is out then as I'm at the mercy of what equipment I can get for free. :) I was planning on putting the whisper on the side of the tank that I can't see from the couch since it is so huge. My betta is female, so she is very short finned in comparison to the males. If I do the full tank (1" within top), do you think the whisper will work for my betta? Thanks! -Lana On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > Lana, > > The rule of thumb is to fill the tank to within one inch of the top. > Your idea of filling it only half way is good for the betta. However, > for you to do this, you will need to use some different equipment than > you have now. You'll need to replace the Whisper, in any case, with a > sponge filter. You will need an air pump to drive the sponge filter. The > Whisper will simply provide too much water flow for your betta. You will > also need to get a submersible heater for the half full tank. A heater > needs to be submersed to a certain point so that the thermostat can get > an accurate reading of the water temperature. The half full tank will > not provide the depth you need for the heater you have. With the > submersible heater, you can place it horizontally in the tank, near the > substrate, which makes it easier to hide <g>. > > The original _Betta splendens_ comes from relatively warm, shallow > waters that are still (think swamp). Unless you have a Pla Ket (which is > very close to the original, water movement is even more important, since > the longer fins of the fancier varieties makes it even harder for the > fish in a tank with rapid water movement. They will find an area of the > tank with relatively still water and hang there. Usually, it is a back > corner--not providing optimal viewing for you. > > \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26802	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Do a Google Image search of "Hartz 50 watt heater" and see if you can find yours. It's probably a newer model submersible since I'm not sure Hartz products are built to last a long time. ;-) You might want to keep a very close eye on it and plan to replace the heater since it's failure could be catastrophic. I have an article on my blog based on an experiment I did with mimicking a faulty 50W heater on a 10G tank.... mimicking failure with it stuck in the off position and on position and the temperature swings are rather dramatic. With incandescent lighting, you may not even need a heater when the lights are on but it would be needed when the lights are off. If you replace it one day, you could probably go with a 25W heater... or if you really want to err on the side of caution, go with two 25W heaters. I talk about this redundancy concept in my article. A 25W heater, stuck in the on position would not be able to heat up your tank as fast or as high, compared to a 50W heater. With two 25W heaters, if one should fail in the off position, the other would still keep the water stabile. If one should fail in the on position, it wouldn't be able to cook your fish. It's unlikely both would fail at the same time. You would notice if the little pilot light was on all the time to indicate a possible problem. I also use those little stick on thermometers on the sides of my tanks which tell me at a glance what the water temp range is like. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Prepping Tank for Betta On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > I bring the water up to the bottom of the black frame. That should > still leave about an inch of air space. Does the light fixture use > fluorescent or incandescent bulbs? If incandescent, then you could > either raise the hood a little to increase air circulation or lower > the water a little. They're incandescent so I'll probably end up lowering the water a little then. Would 2" from the top be enough? Look for a model number on the heater and then we should be able to find the > brand. I just want to make sure it's a fully submersible heater. Some > of the much older models were not fully submersible. It definitely looks older! Once I got it clean I noticed it says Hartz on the top. The underside specifies that it is 50 watts. No model numbers that I can find. I can take a picture and email it to you if you'd like. Thanks! -Lana No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/2008 4:43 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26803	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Melafix

I did a PWC just before starting the Melafix. I just added the second dose and there does not seem to be as much on the surface as there was after the first dose. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:56:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Melafix I don't recall Melafix leaving a film when I've used it in the past but if you had a high level of DOC's or protein in the water, I guess it could react with them causing them to float to the surface. Even without Melafix, some tanks will get this oily film on the surface. It happens more often with carnivorous fish which are fed higher protein based foods. It's also one of the main reasons for a protein skimmer in SW set ups. Did you do at least one PWC prior to starting the Melafix? Most meds prescribe doing one or more PWC's to get the water in good shape prior to using the meds. It won't hurt to do a 25% PWC and just re-dose the 25% of Melafix that you remove with the water. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Melafix Does Melafix always leave an oily film on the water surface? Does this eventually go away or will the PWC take care of it? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/2008 4:43 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26804	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Your filter should circulate the water so that it will be reasonable consistent throughout the tank so I'd put the thermometer where it is convenient for you to read. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Prepping Tank for Betta Thanks Steve, Right now my betta is in an unheated .5 gallon bowl and we haven't been running the house heat. She gets as chilly as 66 at times (when we're running the heat she's closer to 72). I did buy a thermometer for the 10G tank because I wasn't confident in the heater not having a readout. Should I put the thermometer near the heater or on the opposite side of the tank? Thanks! -Lana On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: > Hartz is enough. It is oversized for the tank, unless the tank is to > be in a pretty cool room. I'd keep a weather eye on the temperature. > Hartz was never known for its quality. > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/2008 4:43 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26805	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Gee, she's doing so well at room temp I'm almost tempted to skip the heater after knowing all this... I'd hate for it to cook her by accident. :( -Lana On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > You might want to keep a very > close eye on it and plan to replace the heater since it's failure could be > catastrophic. > > I have an article on my blog based on an experiment I did with mimicking a > faulty 50W heater on a 10G tank.... mimicking failure with it stuck in the > off position and on position and the temperature swings are rather > dramatic. > With incandescent lighting, you may not even need a heater when the lights > are on but it would be needed when the lights are off. > With two 25W heaters, if one should fail in the off position, the > other would still keep the water stabile. If one should fail in the on > position, it wouldn't be able to cook your fish. It's unlikely both would > fail at the same time. You would notice if the little pilot light was on > all the time to indicate a possible problem. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26806	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Melafix

On closer inspection of the water surface after I added the Melafix, I don't think it is oil on the water. It appears to just be clumps of small air bubbles. I guess the Melafix changes the surface tension of the water in such a way that it appears to be oily when in fact it is not. As Lenny stated a lot of aquariums tend to have an oily film on the surface of the water. That was the case with mine until I added the UV Sterilizer. It immediately cleared the surface of the water. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:09:08 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Melafix I did a PWC just before starting the Melafix. I just added the second dose and there does not seem to be as much on the surface as there was after the first dose. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:56:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Melafix I don't recall Melafix leaving a film when I've used it in the past but if you had a high level of DOC's or protein in the water, I guess it could react with them causing them to float to the surface. Even without Melafix, some tanks will get this oily film on the surface. It happens more often with carnivorous fish which are fed higher protein based foods. It's also one of the main reasons for a protein skimmer in SW set ups. Did you do at least one PWC prior to starting the Melafix? Most meds prescribe doing one or more PWC's to get the water in good shape prior to using the meds. It won't hurt to do a 25% PWC and just re-dose the 25% of Melafix that you remove with the water. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Melafix Does Melafix always leave an oily film on the water surface? Does this eventually go away or will the PWC take care of it? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/2008 4:43 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26807	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Unless I have two heaters in a tank, I usually go for the opposite corner. No real reason, that's just what I do. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Prepping Tank for Betta Thanks Steve, Right now my betta is in an unheated .5 gallon bowl and we haven't been running the house heat. She gets as chilly as 66 at times (when we're running the heat she's closer to 72). I did buy a thermometer for the 10G tank because I wasn't confident in the heater not having a readout. Should I put the thermometer near the heater or on the opposite side of the tank? Thanks! -Lana On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > Hartz is enough. It is oversized for the tank, unless the tank is to be > in a pretty cool room. I'd keep a weather eye on the temperature. Hartz > was never known for its quality. > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26808	From: Margarita Shkurko	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: tiny white spot on tail

Hi, everyone. I have long fin black skirt tetra. One of them has a tiny white spot on its tail. Is it a parasite? What should I do? Thank you for help ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26809	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: tiny white spot on tail

A little more descriptive explanation of your problem would be most helpful. Is the spot on a ray, or in the membrane between rays. Is it cyst like? Is it fuzzy? Is it just color? Also, what are your water parameters? Include temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and hardness, if you test for it. Any other fish in the tank? What size is the tank? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margarita Shkurko Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tiny white spot on tail Hi, everyone. I have long fin black skirt tetra. One of them has a tiny white spot on its tail. Is it a parasite? What should I do? Thank you for help ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26810	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Melafix

Hi Jimmy, yes as it is tea tree oil. It also clouds the water. Be sure you do a 25-35% water change after 3 days of treatment and another one on day 6 of the seven day treatment and remove your carbon. What are you treating your fish for? Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmy McHaney To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Melafix Does Melafix always leave an oily film on the water surface? Does this eventually go away or will the PWC take care of it? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA __________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26811	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

The whisper filter would be fine for your betta. Though they may need to get used to the water flow. The only time I would be really concerned about a Hang on the back filter is if and when I breed bubble nesters as the disturbance usually breaks down the nest. In my mouth breeding betta tanks I have whisper internal filters going all of the time. I have raised and bred halfmoon, veil and species bettas. If your house is comfortable for you it should be fine for your betta. Though it would be better to have a submersible heater that has calibrated settings on the heater. **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26812	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 3/23/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest

Yes Ken, you are right. Lol, I had forgotten about them. There are so many other species of frog available in the pet trade, and many of these are very beautiful and interesting creatures. I saw a red-eyed tree frog in a shop the other day and was impressed by the size of the animal. And so very beautiful! It was exquisite! I think the price was $70.00, which I don't think is atrociously high. But hey I have too many critters as it stands anyway so STOP. I have 2 bombina orientalis, and they do well in either plaudariums or rainforest-type vivariums/terrariums. They are tough as nails, and I've read they have been known to live 16 years in captivity. They can become extremely confiding, and will take food right out of your fingers. I think they like me :) CC --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Christa, > > Some frogs are truly aquatic frogs and do not need a > land mass. Common > aquatic frogs are the ADF's (African Dwarf Frogs) > and ACF's (African Clawed > Frogs). Based on their names alone, they may not > fit with the Rain Forest > theme but they are true aquatic frogs. > > Ken > > Here's a site with lots of info about the Rain > Forest > http://rainforests.mongabay.com/ and setting up a > biotope aquarium. (Scroll > down a little to South America section) > http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Christa Ciglan > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 12:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rain Forest > > Here are some ideas for a rain forest vivarium: > http://www.vivariumconcepts.com/content/view/8/11/ > <http://www.vivariumconcepts.com/content/view/8/11/> > > > You neglect to mention what kind of critters you > wish to put in there. The > natural habitat of the critters needs to be > replicated, obviously. That's > where you start. A rain forest vivarium/terrarium is > NOT a plaudarium. If > you put frogs in a plaudarium they will croak. > > Really. Frogs drown really easily. So no frogs. > Post again if you can fill us in a bit more. > > Christa > --- Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > wrote: > > > Google paludarium. You'll likely come up with some > good stuff in those > > links. A paludarium is half terrarium and half > aquarium. I have seen > > some very well done ones over the years. If you > remember the river > > tank craze in the 90's, that was kind of the idea > of a paludarium. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf > Of Iksnip@... > > <mailto:Iksnip%40aol.com> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:00 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rain Forest > > > > Does anyone have any good links of tanks people > set up to look like > > rain > > > > forests...I am interested in pictures but also > written descriptions of > > what they did > > > > thanks > > > > Ken > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - > Release Date: 3/21/2008 > 5:52 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26813	From: tori purfit	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Melafix

hi there, i know that melafix causes a lot of foam/small bubbles, on the water surface - can look like a betta's bubblenest the way it clumps. i used to work in wholesale aquatics, supplying the public, so we used pond strength melafix in our tanks - it's much more concentrated than tank melafix - and therefore cheaper for larger treatments, so as a side effect, there would be more foam. it does no harm to the fish, it just looks unsightly. i would not recommend using pond melafix in tanks at home, as the dilution factor is about 1 - 100 so it's very easy to accidentall over dose. Tori purfit - scotland x To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: mchaneyjm@...: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:43:11 -0700Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Melafix On closer inspection of the water surface after I added the Melafix, I don't think it is oil on the water. It appears to just be clumps of small air bubbles. I guess the Melafix changes the surface tension of the water in such a way that it appears to be oily when in fact it is not. As Lenny stated a lot of aquariums tend to have an oily film on the surface of the water. That was the case with mine until I added the UV Sterilizer. It immediately cleared the surface of the water.Jimmy McHaneyHusser, LA ----- Original Message ----From: Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...>To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:09:08 PMSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] MelafixI did a PWC just before starting the Melafix. I just added the second dose and there does not seem to be as much on the surface as there was after the first dose. Jimmy McHaneyHusser, LA ----- Original Message ----From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:56:01 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] MelafixI don't recall Melafix leaving a film when I've used it in the past but ifyou had a high level of DOC's or protein in the water, I guess it couldreact with them causing them to float to the surface. Even without Melafix, some tanks will get this oily film on the surface. Ithappens more often with carnivorous fish which are fed higher protein basedfoods. It's also one of the main reasons for a protein skimmer in SW setups. Did you do at least one PWC prior to starting the Melafix? Most medsprescribe doing one or more PWC's to get the water in good shape prior tousing the meds. It won't hurt to do a 25% PWC and just re-dose the 25% ofMelafix that you remove with the water.-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Jimmy McHaneySent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:45 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] MelafixDoes Melafix always leave an oily film on the water surface? Does thiseventually go away or will the PWC take care of it?Jimmy McHaneyHusser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1339 - Release Date: 3/22/20084:43 PM------------------------------------Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks.·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º>PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-<º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links__________________________________________________________Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]------------------------------------Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks.·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º>PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-<º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links__________________________________________________________Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs%5bNon-text portions of this message have been removed] _________________________________________________________________ Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap http://www.bigsnapsearch.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26814	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

While the Betta may "look" good, its really impossible to tell how stressed it may be when the room temperature goes down to 66 o. Just because you do not see any signs of illness YET is no reason to believe the fish is doing "well," and no reason to subject the fish to that extreme. BTW, unless you have a thermometer in the tank, you cannot know the temperature of the water -- it usually is one or even two degrees lower that the ambient temperature due to processes such as the cooling effects of evaporation, etc. If you want to be assured of not cooking the fish, use two heaters as has previously been mentioned. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise that quantity of water 5 o above the ambient temperature of the tank. As such, 25 Watts has the capacity to raise your 10 gallon tank's water to approximately 72.25 o (or 6.25 o above the room temperature), when your room is 66 o; actually slightly less than 72.25 o due to some evaporation cooling. Two similar heaters will ensure the temperature will never cool off to previous levels, yet you'll be assured that any one of them cannot overheat the tank if something were to malfunction. Under normal circumstances, 50 Watts (again, preferably 2 of them) as Steve has suggested and as I would normally recommend, would be safe except in the extreme temperatures of Summer (unless you A/C the room). This 12.5 degree potential (from one 50 Watt heater) of boosting your tank's "normal " (read; -- otherwise unheated) temperature could possibly cook your fish if any one of the heaters stuck on when the room temperature got up to 84 o, which is not unheard of in the Summer in an un-air conditioned room. It would mean 96.5 o water. You are far safer with two 25 Watt heaters, which will maintain your tank at 80.5 o (at its maximum setting) at the average room temperature of 74 o, and can of course be adjusted lower to your desired setting. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > Gee, she's doing so well at room temp I'm almost tempted to skip the heater > after knowing all this... I'd hate for it to cook her by accident. :( > > -Lana > > On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > You might want to keep a very > > close eye on it and plan to replace the heater since it's failure could be > > catastrophic. > > > > I have an article on my blog based on an experiment I did with mimicking a > > faulty 50W heater on a 10G tank.... mimicking failure with it stuck in the > > off position and on position and the temperature swings are rather > > dramatic. > > With incandescent lighting, you may not even need a heater when the lights > > are on but it would be needed when the lights are off. > > > > > > With two 25W heaters, if one should fail in the off position, the > > other would still keep the water stabile. If one should fail in the on > > position, it wouldn't be able to cook your fish. It's unlikely both would > > fail at the same time. You would notice if the little pilot light was on > > all the time to indicate a possible problem. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26815	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Depending on the size of the Whisper filter, if it is one that is rated near to your tanks' capacity (even if slightly larger) its flow adjustment will allow for an appropriate flow for the comfort of a Betta, yet still provide adequate filtering capacity for a somewhat lighter than normal bioload. This replied-to post gives me an opportunity for stressing the importance of the use of a thermometer in all heated tanks to be able to keep tabs on things at a glance, whether or not a "calibrated setting" heater or a normally adjustable heater is used. One needs to know at any given time whether or not the heater is starting to malfunction, rather than waiting until fish are cooked or chilled. There is much less chance of anything detrimental happening to the fish when using properly rated heaters and employing two of them, but all too many hobbyists rely on only one heater -- and its often rated too high for the tanks' capacity resulting in temperature changes more rapidly (and more drastic) than what might normally occur. A thermometer can alert the hobbyist to these unexpected changes in time to avert a major problem with his livestock if seen in time, when regularly monitored, or at least the opportunity is there to do so other than not having a thermometer at all. Except in situations where a tanks' water level is not maintained near its capacity, I don't see any advantage of a quality submersible heater having calibrated settings over an equal quality HOB heater having a control knob needed to be "hand set" to the desired tank temperature. The calibrated settings feature does not preclude the possiblity of a heater malfunction, even though some of the best quality heaters are of this design. A thermometer should still be used with these heaters, instead of entrusting the integrity of the calibration. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joesbirds@... wrote: > > The whisper filter would be fine for your betta. Though they may need to get > used to the water flow. The only time I would be really concerned about a > Hang on the back filter is if and when I breed bubble nesters as the > disturbance usually breaks down the nest. In my mouth breeding betta tanks I have > whisper internal filters going all of the time. I have raised and bred halfmoon, > veil and species bettas. If your house is comfortable for you it should be > fine for your betta. Though it would be better to have a submersible heater > that has calibrated settings on the heater. > > > > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL > Home. > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15? ncid=aolhom00030000000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26816	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

How do you guys feel about the eclipse tanks water flow? I have thought about getting one for my betta, even though he was recently upgraded from a 2 gallon to a 5 gallon, we have a 6 gallon eclipse at work that has been discontinued. The only one we have left have some fish in it. I am going to break that one down once our fish reset is done and I can see what new kinda of small tanks we have,so I told my manager I want the 6 gallon for my betta. I was hesitant as I didnt want to get him into situaton with alot of air flow, his little sponge filter is doing well, I just have always liked the look of the eclipse tank. Also if I do get it, algae grows pretty wellin that tank. What would be a good algae eater in tht tank? If I switch over I plan on using live plants in there (I dont use them now as he has no light ovr his tank) and I just dont want something like a snail that will decide to make a meal of my plants. ~Melissa --- Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > Depending on the size of the Whisper filter, if it > is one that is > rated near to your tanks' capacity (even if slightly > larger) its flow > adjustment will allow for an appropriate flow for > the comfort of a > Betta, yet still provide adequate filtering capacity > for a somewhat > lighter than normal bioload. > > This replied-to post gives me an opportunity for > stressing the > importance of the use of a thermometer in all heated > tanks to be able > to keep tabs on things at a glance, whether or not a > "calibrated > setting" heater or a normally adjustable heater is > used. One needs > to know at any given time whether or not the heater > is starting to > malfunction, rather than waiting until fish are > cooked or chilled. > There is much less chance of anything detrimental > happening to the > fish when using properly rated heaters and employing > two of them, but > all too many hobbyists rely on only one heater -- > and its often rated > too high for the tanks' capacity resulting in > temperature changes > more rapidly (and more drastic) than what might > normally occur. A > thermometer can alert the hobbyist to these > unexpected changes in > time to avert a major problem with his livestock if > seen in time, > when regularly monitored, or at least the > opportunity is there to do > so other than not having a thermometer at all. > > Except in situations where a tanks' water level is > not maintained > near its capacity, I don't see any advantage of a > quality submersible > heater having calibrated settings over an equal > quality HOB heater > having a control knob needed to be "hand set" to the > desired tank > temperature. The calibrated settings feature does > not preclude the > possiblity of a heater malfunction, even though some > of the best > quality heaters are of this design. A thermometer > should still be > used with these heaters, instead of entrusting the > integrity of the > calibration. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joesbirds@... > wrote: > > > > The whisper filter would be fine for your betta. > Though they may > need to get > > used to the water flow. The only time I would be > really concerned > about a > > Hang on the back filter is if and when I breed > bubble nesters as > the > > disturbance usually breaks down the nest. In my > mouth breeding > betta tanks I have > > whisper internal filters going all of the time. I > have raised and > bred halfmoon, > > veil and species bettas. If your house is > comfortable for you it > should be > > fine for your betta. Though it would be better to > have a > submersible heater > > that has calibrated settings on the heater. > > > > > > > > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. > Watch the video > on AOL > > Home. > > > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15? > ncid=aolhom00030000000001) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26817	From: Kevin	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: think my male beta might be sick

i think my male is sick but i am not shure the symptoms are hes pale not as active and isent eating not in front of me at least what could this be other than the thing mentioned above he seems fine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: think my male beta might be sick

Tell us more about your tank/bowl. Do you have a master test kit? If yes, give us current water parameters and whether they are different than your "normal" readings. In the meantime, do a 25% PWC with dechlored water at the same temperature as his tank's water. Tell us what your normal maintenance schedule is like. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] think my male beta might be sick i think my male is sick but i am not shure the symptoms are hes pale not as active and isent eating not in front of me at least what could this be other than the thing mentioned above he seems fine No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1340 - Release Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26819	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Duckweed Again

It was asked if I had CO2 on the 10 gallon planted tank with the duckweed roots (which are brownish in color) - nope. Thinking about it but haven't done it yet. We just have it on the 20 gallon hex planted tank and the plants are growing like mad! As for getting a bigger tank, I have three bigger ones (including a 55)!<G> I had an angel tank many many years ago but haven't had a lot of luck with them. I am not sure how duckweed would do being mailed but if anybody wants some and is willing to pay postage from Michigan, let me know. I have it in three tanks of mine but it is really bad in my 10 gallon. We have a 160 gallon pond in the backyard with goldfish feeders in it that would probably enjoy eating it but I hestitate introducing it to the pond because of the fear of it taking over. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26820	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Are you saying the stick on thermometer is inaccurate? BTW, unless you have a thermometer in the tank, you > cannot know the temperature of the water -- it usually is one or even > two degrees lower that the ambient temperature due to processes such > as the cooling effects of evaporation, etc. When I say she looks good, I means she swims around the tank at her usual activity level. If it does go below 66 degrees she looks notably chilly - less movement, more huddling near the rocks (but this doesn't happen often because if the temp reads low before I go to bed I will turn the heat on for her). I wonder - do fish in the wild have perfect temperatures all the time? Last I checked the weather is always changing and I would think the fish would be able to adapt. Why is it we keep fish in a tank that is exactly one temperature? While the Betta may "look" good, its really impossible to tell how > stressed it may be when the room temperature goes down to 66 o. Just > because you do not see any signs of illness YET is no reason to > believe the fish is doing "well," and no reason to subject the fish > to that extreme. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26821	From: amvass2002	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Duckweed

Just like Eric's experience (quoted below) I scooped some duckweed out of a friend's water garden and let it sit for a week to let the critters out. I put it in my tank and within 3 days, my platys had taken care of it by nibbling away at the roots and then the leaves. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Yep.they are called roots ;-) Get some angels (and a larger tank > *grin*).they love it. I get duckweed during the spring and summer from a > local landscaper, it grows like crazy in their displays. It lasts a couple > of days before the angels(and other fish) eat it all up. It would be a good > excuse to get a large tank and some beautiful angels hehehehe. I am sure > any primarily vegetarian fish would also suffice. > > > > Eric > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26822	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Melafix

I am attempting to heal some open wounds on the fins of some of my fish. I went with Melafix because it is not suppost to harm the bio filter. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Sissy Sathre <ssathre@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:47:44 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Melafix Hi Jimmy, yes as it is tea tree oil. It also clouds the water. Be sure you do a 25-35% water change after 3 days of treatment and another one on day 6 of the seven day treatment and remove your carbon. What are you treating your fish for? Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysiss y.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmy McHaney To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Melafix Does Melafix always leave an oily film on the water surface? Does this eventually go away or will the PWC take care of it? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26823	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

I have one "expensive" glass enclosed floating thermometer that I leave in my main tank but also move it to a H/Q-tank if needed and I have the stick on thermometers on all of my tanks and they are accurate within 1F as best I can tell. I have them in the same corner as my Live pH monitor so I can get a quick glimpse of things in case there is ever a problem. As far as fish in the wild, remember that they were born and raised in the wild so they have much higher tolerances for their elements. On one end of the spectrum, they do have the higher tolerances but on the other end of the spectrum, their average lifespan is much shorter due to predation and nature in general. Our tank raised fish lose much of their abilities to cope with drastic changes or the abilities to fend for themselves. Wild fish also have built up immunities to many bacteria, etc. in the wild that our tank raised fish would succumb to quickly due to not having the proper antibodies. My point is, while we try to mimic their natural habitats, in many aspects, we cannot compare our tank raised fish with their wild counterparts... just like we can't compare our pet dogs to wild coyotes or wolves. (I know my dog would die if he didn't have his air-conditioned home... lol) There are also studies that show that kids that are allowed (or forced.. lol) to play outside in the mud, get dirty, etc., build up a better resistance to illness, allergies, etc., than kids who are kept in more pristine environments or ones who stay inside playing video games all day long. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Prepping Tank for Betta Are you saying the stick on thermometer is inaccurate? BTW, unless you have a thermometer in the tank, you > cannot know the temperature of the water -- it usually is one or even > two degrees lower that the ambient temperature due to processes such > as the cooling effects of evaporation, etc. When I say she looks good, I means she swims around the tank at her usual activity level. If it does go below 66 degrees she looks notably chilly - less movement, more huddling near the rocks (but this doesn't happen often because if the temp reads low before I go to bed I will turn the heat on for her). I wonder - do fish in the wild have perfect temperatures all the time? Last I checked the weather is always changing and I would think the fish would be able to adapt. Why is it we keep fish in a tank that is exactly one temperature? While the Betta may "look" good, its really impossible to tell how > stressed it may be when the room temperature goes down to 66 o. Just > because you do not see any signs of illness YET is no reason to > believe the fish is doing "well," and no reason to subject the fish to > that extreme. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1340 - Release Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26824	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Being familiar with the eclipse tanks only from the standpoint of their looks (which are attractive), and not having any practical experience with them, I can't give you any meaningful answer on that except to say "if it ain't broke, why fix it?" The Betta is obviously doing well now in the 5 gallon, so I don't see any large advantage of switching tanks for one more gallon, even if its a 20% increase in this case. While algae may grow pretty well in that tank presently, its not the tank itself that's promoting the growth, but the conditions in it -- this includes the present bioload, its maintenance methods, the lighting its getting and any number of variable other things including its present location in the room in relation to outdoor light its now receiving, etc. Set up in your home, it may prove to be very different in its tendency to grow algae. A good algae eater for this size tank that you might consider though, is the Otocinclus Catfish. The SAE/Siamese Algae Eater (not to be confused with its look-alike Chinese Algae Eater) is fine but gets to large (6 1/2") for a 6 gallon tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Walker <playnwifsnot@...> wrote: > > How do you guys feel about the eclipse tanks water > flow? I have thought about getting one for my betta, > even though he was recently upgraded from a 2 gallon > to a 5 gallon, we have a 6 gallon eclipse at work that > has been discontinued. The only one we have left have > some fish in it. I am going to break that one down > once our fish reset is done and I can see what new > kinda of small tanks we have,so I told my manager I > want the 6 gallon for my betta. I was hesitant as I > didnt want to get him into situaton with alot of air > flow, his little sponge filter is doing well, I just > have always liked the look of the eclipse tank. > > Also if I do get it, algae grows pretty wellin that > tank. What would be a good algae eater in tht tank? If > I switch over I plan on using live plants in there (I > dont use them now as he has no light ovr his tank) and > I just dont want something like a snail that will > decide to make a meal of my plants. > > ~Melissa > > --- Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > wrote: > > > Depending on the size of the Whisper filter, if it > > is one that is > > rated near to your tanks' capacity (even if slightly > > larger) its flow > > adjustment will allow for an appropriate flow for > > the comfort of a > > Betta, yet still provide adequate filtering capacity > > for a somewhat > > lighter than normal bioload. > > > > This replied-to post gives me an opportunity for > > stressing the > > importance of the use of a thermometer in all heated > > tanks to be able > > to keep tabs on things at a glance, whether or not a > > "calibrated > > setting" heater or a normally adjustable heater is > > used. One needs > > to know at any given time whether or not the heater > > is starting to > > malfunction, rather than waiting until fish are > > cooked or chilled. > > There is much less chance of anything detrimental > > happening to the > > fish when using properly rated heaters and employing > > two of them, but > > all too many hobbyists rely on only one heater -- > > and its often rated > > too high for the tanks' capacity resulting in > > temperature changes > > more rapidly (and more drastic) than what might > > normally occur. A > > thermometer can alert the hobbyist to these > > unexpected changes in > > time to avert a major problem with his livestock if > > seen in time, > > when regularly monitored, or at least the > > opportunity is there to do > > so other than not having a thermometer at all. > > > > Except in situations where a tanks' water level is > > not maintained > > near its capacity, I don't see any advantage of a > > quality submersible > > heater having calibrated settings over an equal > > quality HOB heater > > having a control knob needed to be "hand set" to the > > desired tank > > temperature. The calibrated settings feature does > > not preclude the > > possiblity of a heater malfunction, even though some > > of the best > > quality heaters are of this design. A thermometer > > should still be > > used with these heaters, instead of entrusting the > > integrity of the > > calibration. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joesbirds@ > > wrote: > > > > > > The whisper filter would be fine for your betta. > > Though they may > > need to get > > > used to the water flow. The only time I would be > > really concerned > > about a > > > Hang on the back filter is if and when I breed > > bubble nesters as > > the > > > disturbance usually breaks down the nest. In my > > mouth breeding > > betta tanks I have > > > whisper internal filters going all of the time. I > > have raised and > > bred halfmoon, > > > veil and species bettas. If your house is > > comfortable for you it > > should be > > > fine for your betta. Though it would be better to > > have a > > submersible heater > > > that has calibrated settings on the heater. > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. > > Watch the video > > on AOL > > > Home. > > > > > > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15? > > ncid=aolhom00030000000001) > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26825	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

No, even though I've never seen them to be all that accurate myself (but it may just have been the particular brand). What I'm saying is that there are some hobbyists who feel they do not need to have a thermometer when using a calibrated-setting heater. This is a false assumption since anything can go wrong with any heater at any time -- and a regular habit of monitoring your thermometer reading may save your fish from disaster. It would seem normal, in the least, for a cold-blooded animal evolved in somewhat warmer temperatures to appear somewhat sluggish as you describe at those lower temperatures. Prolonged, it could have adverse effects, but I note you do turn the heat on when the temperature really dips. Not the most ideal method of maintaining the fish as those dips can be out of or near the extremes of the fish's normal range. As it appears you might be suggesting, fish in the wild do not always have "perfect" temperatures all the time, and the temperature of their environment can and will vary throughout the seasons -- even varying according to the strata of the water at any given time during the day. Because of the fluctuation of temperatures at differring levels, the fish CAN (but not NEED) to be subjected to these variations IF it chooses to do so. In an aquarium, the fish does not have any option to swim in any other temperature except that of its enclosed environment -- which can vary substantially faster than the average volume of a stream, even if that stream's temperature may be somewhat stratified. As a moving body of water, a stream tends to homogenize somewhat. Ponds and/or lakes on the other hand do not mix aas readily except during the periods of storm when the layers get churned, and then that's a slow process. With this, by your questioning whether fish have perfect temperatures all the time (and you may be meaning, do these temperature extremes they experience ever vary beyond that range in which they can tolerate), I'm assuming you may be referring to temperatures they've never previously experienced as a species. The answer to this is no, as a fish (a species) from any given area has evolved over time within all the temperature extremes that particular area has experienced over the time period it has taken to evolved that species. In effect, the species has gone through all the temperature swings that has ever occurred in their native environment during the time it took that species to evolve; for this species to have survived means that the coldest their environment has ever gotten during the evolution of this species has not yet been beyond their capabilities to endure. If by chance their temperature in the wild had ever gotten below the point of their survival, they would not be here. Likewise, the present range of temperature in the wild may have wiped out other species which are no longer extant, if that species could not tolerate whatever extreme that was. A very similar species may have been involved, which perished, and this surviving species may well be a mutation of the perished one, allowing it to survive at 65 o, or 63 o or 60 o (or 68 o), whichever was its lowest temperature during the time of its long evolution. The extreme of an animal's range of endurance, although tolerable, is never the ideal. One thing that is not being taken into consideration is the vast difference between the wild environment and that of the enclosed ecosystem of the aquarium where the fish are at the mercy of any pathogens co-existing with it ("captive" has many consequences). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > Are you saying the stick on thermometer is inaccurate? > > BTW, unless you have a thermometer in the tank, you > > cannot know the temperature of the water -- it usually is one or even > > two degrees lower that the ambient temperature due to processes such > > as the cooling effects of evaporation, etc. > > > When I say she looks good, I means she swims around the tank at her usual > activity level. If it does go below 66 degrees she looks notably chilly - > less movement, more huddling near the rocks (but this doesn't happen often > because if the temp reads low before I go to bed I will turn the heat on for > her). > > I wonder - do fish in the wild have perfect temperatures all the time? Last > I checked the weather is always changing and I would think the fish would be > able to adapt. Why is it we keep fish in a tank that is exactly one > temperature? > > While the Betta may "look" good, its really impossible to tell how > > stressed it may be when the room temperature goes down to 66 o. Just > > because you do not see any signs of illness YET is no reason to > > believe the fish is doing "well," and no reason to subject the fish > > to that extreme. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26826	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Thanks Ray and Lenny! Lots of good info here - I really appreciate you both taking the time to help me fully understand!!! I quite like the stick-on I have on the 1/2 gallon tank and I'm glad to hear it is almost as accurate as the glass thermometers. I had planned on using the glass thermometer style since I thought it was more accurate - but it is downright impossible to read unless I'm up close so I'm gonna grab another stick-on next time I'm out. I did also look at smaller heaters - I like the idea of two for redundancy but right now it looks like the cheapest I can get them is $9 ea. I'm gonna use the 50W for now, but I'm gonna keep an eye out on freecycle and craigs list for two 25W units. Now I just have to figure out how to get some plants and other stuff for her to hide behind and then I'm good! :) Thanks everyone! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26827	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Oh, and I meant to ask - when using two heaters: is it possible to keep one half of the tank a little cooler than the other (to give her the choice between two temps)? Thanks! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

With the filter constantly circulating the water, I don't think this is possible. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 1:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Prepping Tank for Betta Oh, and I meant to ask - when using two heaters: is it possible to keep one half of the tank a little cooler than the other (to give her the choice between two temps)? Thanks! -Lana No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1340 - Release Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26829	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

Well the tank at work has a whole 5 rummy nose tetra in it and has 5 types of rooted plants, 2 are anubis plants, one is a small amazon, the other two...not sure what they were, they were cute so I tossed them in. We also have the Otocinclus, he does a decent job, but the light is pretty strong so we get alot of algae in it. And the tank does get a 25% pwc weekly as I am the one who maintains all the little tanks as nobody else every pays attention to them. It recieves no direct sunlight where it is at. I was going for the upgrade simply for the extra gallon, they are just beautiful tanks and I figures for $20 on a $75 tank, thats a deal! ~Melissa --- Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > Being familiar with the eclipse tanks only from the > standpoint of > their looks (which are attractive), and not having > any practical > experience with them, I can't give you any > meaningful answer on that > except to say "if it ain't broke, why fix it?" The > Betta is > obviously doing well now in the 5 gallon, so I don't > see any large > advantage of switching tanks for one more gallon, > even if its a 20% > increase in this case. > > While algae may grow pretty well in that tank > presently, its not the > tank itself that's promoting the growth, but the > conditions in it -- > this includes the present bioload, its maintenance > methods, the > lighting its getting and any number of variable > other things > including its present location in the room in > relation to outdoor > light its now receiving, etc. Set up in your home, > it may prove to > be very different in its tendency to grow algae. A > good algae eater > for this size tank that you might consider though, > is the Otocinclus > Catfish. The SAE/Siamese Algae Eater (not to be > confused with its > look-alike Chinese Algae Eater) is fine but gets to > large (6 1/2") > for a 6 gallon tank. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Walker > <playnwifsnot@...> > wrote: > > > > How do you guys feel about the eclipse tanks water > > flow? I have thought about getting one for my > betta, > > even though he was recently upgraded from a 2 > gallon > > to a 5 gallon, we have a 6 gallon eclipse at work > that > > has been discontinued. The only one we have left > have > > some fish in it. I am going to break that one down > > once our fish reset is done and I can see what new > > kinda of small tanks we have,so I told my manager > I > > want the 6 gallon for my betta. I was hesitant as > I > > didnt want to get him into situaton with alot of > air > > flow, his little sponge filter is doing well, I > just > > have always liked the look of the eclipse tank. > > > > Also if I do get it, algae grows pretty wellin > that > > tank. What would be a good algae eater in tht > tank? If > > I switch over I plan on using live plants in there > (I > > dont use them now as he has no light ovr his tank) > and > > I just dont want something like a snail that will > > decide to make a meal of my plants. > > > > ~Melissa > > > > --- Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > > wrote: > > > > > Depending on the size of the Whisper filter, if > it > > > is one that is > > > rated near to your tanks' capacity (even if > slightly > > > larger) its flow > > > adjustment will allow for an appropriate flow > for > > > the comfort of a > > > Betta, yet still provide adequate filtering > capacity > > > for a somewhat > > > lighter than normal bioload. > > > > > > This replied-to post gives me an opportunity for > > > stressing the > > > importance of the use of a thermometer in all > heated > > > tanks to be able > > > to keep tabs on things at a glance, whether or > not a > > > "calibrated > > > setting" heater or a normally adjustable heater > is > > > used. One needs > > > to know at any given time whether or not the > heater > > > is starting to > > > malfunction, rather than waiting until fish are > > > cooked or chilled. > > > There is much less chance of anything > detrimental > > > happening to the > > > fish when using properly rated heaters and > employing > > > two of them, but > > > all too many hobbyists rely on only one heater > -- > > > and its often rated > > > too high for the tanks' capacity resulting in > > > temperature changes > > > more rapidly (and more drastic) than what might > > > normally occur. A > > > thermometer can alert the hobbyist to these > > > unexpected changes in > > > time to avert a major problem with his livestock > if > > > seen in time, > > > when regularly monitored, or at least the > > > opportunity is there to do > > > so other than not having a thermometer at all. > > > > > > Except in situations where a tanks' water level > is > > > not maintained > > > near its capacity, I don't see any advantage of > a > > > quality submersible > > > heater having calibrated settings over an equal > > > quality HOB heater > > > having a control knob needed to be "hand set" to > the > > > desired tank > > > temperature. The calibrated settings feature > does > > > not preclude the > > > possiblity of a heater malfunction, even though > some > > > of the best > > > quality heaters are of this design. A > thermometer > > > should still be > > > used with these heaters, instead of entrusting > the > > > integrity of the > > > calibration. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joesbirds@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The whisper filter would be fine for your > betta. > > > Though they may > > > need to get > > > > used to the water flow. The only time I would > be > > > really concerned > > > about a > > > > Hang on the back filter is if and when I breed > > > bubble nesters as > > > the > > > > disturbance usually breaks down the nest. In > my > > > mouth breeding > > > betta tanks I have > > > > whisper internal filters going all of the > time. I > > > have raised and > > > bred halfmoon, > > > > veil and species bettas. If your house is > > > comfortable for you it > > > should be > > > > fine for your betta. Though it would be > better to > > > have a > > > submersible heater > > > > that has calibrated settings on the heater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Create a Home Theater Like the > Pros. > > > Watch the video > > > on AOL > > > > Home. > > > > > > > > > > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15? > > > ncid=aolhom00030000000001) > > > > > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26830	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

You do pose an interesting question here, about temperatures and fish in the wild. We will stick with the environment of the wild betas similar to yours. B splendens come from the Mekong Delta, and are found in swampy areas, flooded fields and some streams and rivers. They are generally found in quiet, still waters. The yearly averages run from 72 degrees F to 93 degrees F without much real variation between winter and summer. It is also very humid during most of the year. There is not much temperature variation in the water, since when living in flooded areas will stay warm from the heat of the earth, and it would take a lot of cool water from the rains to cool down the rivers significantly. While there is not much variation in the temperature of the water, there is some. Now, consider, the B. splendens you are keeping. It comes from many years of breeding to develop the fins and color it has. There has been much inbreeding to accomplish this. While inbreeding will, indeed, concentrate the good genes--the genes for those traits you are looking for, it also concentrates genes that are not desirable. Among those can be, and are, the genes that control the animal's sensitivity to temperature. This has been noted time and time again in many fish that have been bred for desirable traits. Often, you need to keep the fish at higher temperatures than you would for the same species that has not been bred for specific traits. To a certain extent, wild fish can control the temperature of the water around them. Next time you go to the lake (or a lake) to swim, go out to where the float is. There the water is deeper, and you will be better able to feel the difference in the temperature as you go deeper into the lake by diving or jumping off the float, and heading for the bottom. Usually, it is significantly cooler the deeper you go. Compare this with your neighborhood swimming pool, should you have such a critter. If not go to someone else's swimming pool. Go to the deep end and do the same dive. There is no significant change in temperature. Why? For one thing, the pool is constantly filtered, and the water flow is much higher than it is in the lake. For another reason, you have a higher concentration of critters (humans) in a much smaller body of water, constantly stirring it up and mixing the thermoclimes, until there is only one. Hmm, perhaps more like an aquarium than most would think, no? These are the reasons why we try to maintain a certain temperature in an aquarium. The fish will be happier for it. Now, having said all that, let me tell you about something I did several years ago--well maybe that should be a couple of decades, but whose splitting hairs right now? I had a population of green swordtails (Xiphophorus hellerii) in an outdoor pond (about 2500 gallons). They and some white clouds were the only inhabitants. Suddenly it was October, in New England! The fish were still in the pond. The water temperature was close to 50 degrees F. Pulling out my trusty seine and offering some free beer to some witless souls, we started pulling out hundreds of fish, still alive and kicking. I did several shows that fall, and all fishes were impressive for the judges and placed well. One thing you need to keep in mind is that Xiphophorus hellerii you usually see, at least back then, were the closest you could get to the wild populations, without truly having wild fish. The white clouds are more a temperate water fish, and may have survived a mild winter. While I am at it, I may as well answer your other question, posted later in the thread than this message. Take a look at the swimming pool analogy, and you will understand why you cannot keep the various areas of the tank at different temperatures. The water is mixed to well by the filtration and the fish you may have in the tank. It is also a small body of water, so even without filtration, it would be difficult to try to maintain different areas of different temperatures. Now, if you were to put an addition onto your house, 20 feet long and 8 feet high, and 12 feet wide, you may be able to accomplish that goal with some fancy footwork of heater placement and water flow, but it still is not too likely, but think of the fish you could keep in there! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Prepping Tank for Betta Are you saying the stick on thermometer is inaccurate? BTW, unless you have a thermometer in the tank, you > cannot know the temperature of the water -- it usually is one or even > two degrees lower that the ambient temperature due to processes such > as the cooling effects of evaporation, etc. When I say she looks good, I means she swims around the tank at her usual activity level. If it does go below 66 degrees she looks notably chilly - less movement, more huddling near the rocks (but this doesn't happen often because if the temp reads low before I go to bed I will turn the heat on for her). I wonder - do fish in the wild have perfect temperatures all the time? Last I checked the weather is always changing and I would think the fish would be able to adapt. Why is it we keep fish in a tank that is exactly one temperature? While the Betta may "look" good, its really impossible to tell how > stressed it may be when the room temperature goes down to 66 o. Just > because you do not see any signs of illness YET is no reason to > believe the fish is doing "well," and no reason to subject the fish > to that extreme. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26831	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

LOL Steve! I wish!! That would be so awesome! -Lana > It is also a small > body of water, so even without filtration, it would be difficult to try > to maintain different areas of different temperatures. Now, if you were > to put an addition onto your house, 20 feet long and 8 feet high, and 12 > feet wide, you may be able to accomplish that goal with some fancy > footwork of heater placement and water flow, but it still is not too > likely, but think of the fish you could keep in there! > > > \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26832	From: Rita	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: tiny white spot on tail

It is cyst like spot. Temperature 80F, all chemistry tests are normal. we do not test for hardness. My tank is 47.5 gal. I have 2tetras,4 platies, one Gold mistery snail. thanks , Rita --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > A little more descriptive explanation of your > problem would be most helpful. Is the spot on a ray, > or in the membrane between rays. Is it cyst like? Is > it fuzzy? Is it just color? > > Also, what are your water parameters? Include > temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and > hardness, if you test for it. Any other fish in the > tank? What size is the tank? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Margarita Shkurko > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] tiny white spot on tail > > Hi, everyone. > I have long fin black skirt tetra. One of them has a > tiny white spot on its tail. Is it a parasite? What > should I do? Thank you for help > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26833	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: FW: TFSRI "Triple Crown" Annual Fish Auction, Sunday March 30th

For those of you within a drive of Providence, RI. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: Wagonblott, Allen, CIV, ONI [mailto:Wagonbla@...] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:33 AM To: Subject: RE: TFSRI "Triple Crown" Annual Fish Auction, Sunday March 30th Only five days away! The Tropical Fish Society of Rhode Island's annual "Triple Crown Fish Auction" auction is this Sunday, March 30th. Where: Knights of Columbus Hall, 1675 Douglas Ave. in North Providence, RI 02904. Yep an brand new location this year! Doors open at 10 a.m. and the auction starts promptly at 12 noon. Don't want to miss this one! The "premier auction" in the Northeast! Come out an enjoy a day with friendly people, some good food with lots of great deals to be had. ***Reminder: "NO DRY GOODS" will be accepted at this auction; and only 3 bags per species and 15 lots total per vendor. (additional lots will be considered donations to TFSRI).*** For auction information, flyers, and vendor forms, please visit the TFSRI's web site at: http://www.tfsri.org For additional information or questions please contact me via my email above. For pre-registers you may email, or fax vendor forms to me at (401) 841-3034. So forward this on to your other fellow club members and fishy friends. We hope to see you there!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26834	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

No, its not possible to keep one half of the tank any cooler or warmer than the other half. Even with little water circulation, the normal physics law of heat radiation would tend to spread the heat somewhat evenly, even if the very top of the water column might be a tad warmer in a high tank. This radiation process would be especially more apparent the smaller the tank is. A very large tank, such as a 6' long 125 gallon tank could vary in temperature from one end to the other, although not significantly. Its for the reason that we have the habit of placing the thermometer at the opposite end of the tank from the heater, as Steve also does. The question arises though as to why you would want to give your Betta a choice between two temperatures. I'm not sure if you're somewhat missing my point with fish in their wild environment, but while there may be several different temperature layers encountered in the wild on occasion, this does not mean that a fish will necessarily seek out a much cooler layer but more to the point will have the option of avoiding it, especially if too cool for its liking and be able to stay within a zone of its comfort once it is found. If, by some chance, that zone becomes uncomfortable (too warm or too cool), the option is there too seek one more within its comfort zone. These "zones" cannot differ significantly the more a body of water has movement, but there can be a couple of degrees difference in deeper rivers; likewise in deeper lakes. Shallower environments like those found in the environs of wild Bettas will not have any significant temperature zones at all, but the whole body of water may vary in temperature depending on the time of day. Its for this reason that Bettas evolved having their auxiliary labyrinth breathing apparatus to enable them to breath atmospheric air when their environmental temperatures reach into the 90's. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > Oh, and I meant to ask - when using two heaters: is it possible to keep one > half of the tank a little cooler than the other (to give her the choice > between two temps)? > > Thanks! > > -Lana > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26835	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: Prepping Tank for Betta

I figured if they were capable of disliking extremes that they may also prefer certain temperatures within the species' known acceptable range. I thought it would be nice to offer the option just in case they did have a preference. I know more about mammals than I do fish, but the best example I can give is the whelping box that puppies are typically raised in - one side has a heat lamp and the other doesn't, to give the puppies a choice based on their comfort level. I myself prefer a warmer room than most. *shrugs* -Lana, who probably gives far too many human traits to her fish (and dog). > The question arises though as to why you would want to give your > Betta a choice between two temperatures. I'm not sure if you're > somewhat missing my point with fish in their wild environment, but > while there may be several different temperature layers encountered > in the wild on occasion, this does not mean that a fish will > necessarily seek out a much cooler layer but more to the point will > have the option of avoiding it, especially if too cool for its liking > and be able to stay within a zone of its comfort once it is found. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26836	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/24/2008
Subject: Re: tiny white spot on tail

I have seen cyst like structures on the fins of fish before. Often it is nothing to worry about. However, if you see another develop, we may need to take a closer look at the situation. When we ask for your water parameters, we are looking for numbers, not words. Normal means nothing to us. Often, when we do get the numbers, normal is anything but normal. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rita Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] tiny white spot on tail It is cyst like spot. Temperature 80F, all chemistry tests are normal. we do not test for hardness. My tank is 47.5 gal. I have 2tetras,4 platies, one Gold mistery snail. thanks , Rita --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > A little more descriptive explanation of your > problem would be most helpful. Is the spot on a ray, > or in the membrane between rays. Is it cyst like? Is > it fuzzy? Is it just color? > > Also, what are your water parameters? Include > temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and > hardness, if you test for it. Any other fish in the > tank? What size is the tank? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Margarita Shkurko > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] tiny white spot on tail > > Hi, everyone. > I have long fin black skirt tetra. One of them has a > tiny white spot on its tail. Is it a parasite? What > should I do? Thank you for help > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26837	From: Kevin	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: think my male beta might be sick

it is a bowl and and i did a water change and every thing is ok but water hardness and i try to clean it out about ever 2 weeks to a month --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Tell us more about your tank/bowl. Do you have a master test kit? If yes, > give us current water parameters and whether they are different than your > "normal" readings. > > In the meantime, do a 25% PWC with dechlored water at the same temperature > as his tank's water. Tell us what your normal maintenance schedule is like. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] think my male beta might be sick > > i think my male is sick but i am not shure the symptoms are hes pale not as > active and isent eating not in front of me at least what could this be other > than the thing mentioned above he seems fine > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1340 - Release Date: 3/23/2008 > 6:50 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26838	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: think my male beta might be sick

OK. It's not good to fully clean out a betta bowl if that is what you are doing. There are certain good bacteria that will grow in the gravel and on surface areas of the decorations and glass that help keep the water safer for your betta. When you over-clean the bowl, you are likely killing off these good bacteria. The best thing would be for you to upgrade to a 2G-5G tank (a 10G would be much better) with a filter and small heater but even a larger bowl would be better if he's in a small vase or bowl now. I rescued a betta after hurricane Katrina who was in a quart sized vase and all I had available was a 1.5G vase but that was still much better than the quart sized vase he was in until I could set up a 10G tank for him. If you are getting water hardness rings around the bowl due to evaporation, you could take siphon out 25% of the water, including vacuuming the gravel, then take a NEW/CLEAN wet sponge or scrubbie pad and wipe/scrub off the mineral build up, then wipe it with a paper towel and refill the bowl. Tell us what size the bowl is. If it's less than a gallon, you should be doing frequent, almost daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes), vacuuming the gravel each time to remove as much waste/detritus as possible. As far as treatment, since we are not sure what is wrong, getting the water quality in good condition is the first step. Then you could buy Melafix and use it as a starting treatment. Use only 1/4 to 1/2 doses of the recommended amount of Melafix since Bettas are supplemental surface breathing fish and the odor from Melafix messes with their labyrinths which is why they also make a product called Bettafix which is a lesser dosage. Melafix is around the same price so you can just reduce the dosage yourself and have four time more medicine for the same price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: think my male beta might be sick it is a bowl and and i did a water change and every thing is ok but water hardness and i try to clean it out about ever 2 weeks to a month --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Tell us more about your tank/bowl. Do you have a master test kit? If yes, > give us current water parameters and whether they are different than your > "normal" readings. > > In the meantime, do a 25% PWC with dechlored water at the same temperature > as his tank's water. Tell us what your normal maintenance schedule is like. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] think my male beta might be sick > > i think my male is sick but i am not shure the symptoms are hes pale not as > active and isent eating not in front of me at least what could this be other > than the thing mentioned above he seems fine > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26839	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Repair to Fake aquarium plants

I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few leaves hve come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing them back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26840	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: think my male beta might be sick

Lenny, do you recommend reducing the dose of Melafix when treating gouramis also? If so do you just treat them for the same period of time or until the problem is cleared up? I have not noticed any undue effect from using the full dose. But I wouldn't want to cause further stress. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:26:55 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: think my male beta might be sick OK. It's not good to fully clean out a betta bowl if that is what you are doing. There are certain good bacteria that will grow in the gravel and on surface areas of the decorations and glass that help keep the water safer for your betta. When you over-clean the bowl, you are likely killing off these good bacteria. The best thing would be for you to upgrade to a 2G-5G tank (a 10G would be much better) with a filter and small heater but even a larger bowl would be better if he's in a small vase or bowl now. I rescued a betta after hurricane Katrina who was in a quart sized vase and all I had available was a 1.5G vase but that was still much better than the quart sized vase he was in until I could set up a 10G tank for him. If you are getting water hardness rings around the bowl due to evaporation, you could take siphon out 25% of the water, including vacuuming the gravel, then take a NEW/CLEAN wet sponge or scrubbie pad and wipe/scrub off the mineral build up, then wipe it with a paper towel and refill the bowl. Tell us what size the bowl is. If it's less than a gallon, you should be doing frequent, almost daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes), vacuuming the gravel each time to remove as much waste/detritus as possible. As far as treatment, since we are not sure what is wrong, getting the water quality in good condition is the first step. Then you could buy Melafix and use it as a starting treatment. Use only 1/4 to 1/2 doses of the recommended amount of Melafix since Bettas are supplemental surface breathing fish and the odor from Melafix messes with their labyrinths which is why they also make a product called Bettafix which is a lesser dosage. Melafix is around the same price so you can just reduce the dosage yourself and have four time more medicine for the same price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups..com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: think my male beta might be sick it is a bowl and and i did a water change and every thing is ok but water hardness and i try to clean it out about ever 2 weeks to a month --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Tell us more about your tank/bowl. Do you have a master test kit? If yes, > give us current water parameters and whether they are different than your > "normal" readings. > > In the meantime, do a 25% PWC with dechlored water at the same temperature > as his tank's water. Tell us what your normal maintenance schedule is like. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] think my male beta might be sick > > i think my male is sick but i am not shure the symptoms are hes pale not as > active and isent eating not in front of me at least what could this be other > than the thing mentioned above he seems fine > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26841	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants

I use aquarium silicone and let it cure for at least a day to repair mine. I just spread a little on with a Q-tip.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: keptbythecats@...: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:45:44 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few leaves hve come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing them back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26842	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: think my male beta might be sick

Yes. There seems to be some anecdotal evidence, from all the forum posts I've read over the years, that the smell from Melafix irritates their labyrinth. This is also supported by the fact that API makes Bettafix especially for Bettas and it's 1/10th the strength of regular Melafix so API must have some inside knowledge to this potential. It doesn't seem to affect all labyrinth fish though... I guess like some of us humans can handle strong smells and others can't... I used to use that excuse at diaper changing times.. LOL. API also makes a pond strength Melafix that is 10 times stronger than regular Melafix if you ever have enough tanks or ponds to warrant buying that. It's not much more per ounce than regular melafix and could be used at 1/10th the dose. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 1:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: think my male beta might be sick Lenny, do you recommend reducing the dose of Melafix when treating gouramis also? If so do you just treat them for the same period of time or until the problem is cleared up? I have not noticed any undue effect from using the full dose. But I wouldn't want to cause further stress. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:26:55 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: think my male beta might be sick OK. It's not good to fully clean out a betta bowl if that is what you are doing. There are certain good bacteria that will grow in the gravel and on surface areas of the decorations and glass that help keep the water safer for your betta. When you over-clean the bowl, you are likely killing off these good bacteria. The best thing would be for you to upgrade to a 2G-5G tank (a 10G would be much better) with a filter and small heater but even a larger bowl would be better if he's in a small vase or bowl now. I rescued a betta after hurricane Katrina who was in a quart sized vase and all I had available was a 1.5G vase but that was still much better than the quart sized vase he was in until I could set up a 10G tank for him. If you are getting water hardness rings around the bowl due to evaporation, you could take siphon out 25% of the water, including vacuuming the gravel, then take a NEW/CLEAN wet sponge or scrubbie pad and wipe/scrub off the mineral build up, then wipe it with a paper towel and refill the bowl. Tell us what size the bowl is. If it's less than a gallon, you should be doing frequent, almost daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes), vacuuming the gravel each time to remove as much waste/detritus as possible. As far as treatment, since we are not sure what is wrong, getting the water quality in good condition is the first step. Then you could buy Melafix and use it as a starting treatment. Use only 1/4 to 1/2 doses of the recommended amount of Melafix since Bettas are supplemental surface breathing fish and the odor from Melafix messes with their labyrinths which is why they also make a product called Bettafix which is a lesser dosage. Melafix is around the same price so you can just reduce the dosage yourself and have four time more medicine for the same price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups..com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: think my male beta might be sick it is a bowl and and i did a water change and every thing is ok but water hardness and i try to clean it out about ever 2 weeks to a month --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Tell us more about your tank/bowl. Do you have a master test kit? If yes, > give us current water parameters and whether they are different than your > "normal" readings. > > In the meantime, do a 25% PWC with dechlored water at the same temperature > as his tank's water. Tell us what your normal maintenance schedule is like. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] think my male beta might be sick > > i think my male is sick but i am not shure the symptoms are hes pale not as > active and isent eating not in front of me at least what could this be other > than the thing mentioned above he seems fine > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26843	From: Rita	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: (no subject)

Hi, everyone. > I have long fin black skirt tetra. One of them has a > tiny white spot on its tail. Is it a parasite? What > should I do? Thank you for help > It is cyst like spot. Temperature 80F, all chemistry tests are normal. we do not test for hardness. My tank is 47.5 gal. I have 2tetras,4 platies, one Gold mistery snail. Margarita Shkurko ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26844	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants

Try "Superglue". People that aquascape with live plants will often use it to adhere a plant to a rock or piece of wood, or even to the side of the tank. -Mike I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few leaves hve come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing them back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? -----Original Message----- From: pkvzookeeper <keptbythecats@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:45 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few leaves hve come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing them back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26845	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants

I think superglue breaks down over time with water. There may be a water proof or food-safe type but I haven't seen it. I think the aquarium safe silicone would be the best bet or a two-part epoxy. I know that acrylic tanks are "glued" at the seams with epoxy. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants Try "Superglue". People that aquascape with live plants will often use it to adhere a plant to a rock or piece of wood, or even to the side of the tank. -Mike I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few leaves hve come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing them back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? -----Original Message----- From: pkvzookeeper <keptbythecats@... <mailto:keptbythecats%40sbcglobal.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:45 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few leaves hve come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing them back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26846	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Auto Top Off Units

Hi One of the problems I have living in the desert is evaporation. On my 75 gallon tank I loose about 1/2 gallon a day. Not a major problem when you are home all the time. But my wife and I travel a lot. I have to get some one to come in and add water on a regular basis. The last few times I showed them exactly where the water level should be, yet when we returned it was about 2-3 inches lower then I like, So I have been considering some kind of auto top off system. Just wondering if anyone in the group has any experience with them. If so is a Manufactured System or did you build it yourself. John in Nevada [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26847	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Auto Top Off Units

You could use a sump tank and overflow unit so the sump would pump water up to the overflow level at all times. You would then only have to top off the sump on a less regular basis, depending on the size of the sump tank. I worked on some plans for myself before Katrina that would utilize my existing canister filter as the pump so I would just have to buy an overflow box like this one... http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=CR1511 as the only added expense (since I have an extra 10G or 20G tank). Just make sure you get an overflow box rated a little higher than the gph of your canister filter or pump. My plans were to adjust the intake height in the sump tank so that it was high enough in the sump so that it could never overflow the main tank in the event of siphon loss in the overflow box. Of course, if you drilled the main tank for an overflow, you wouldn't have that worry. You could also adjust the overflow down to where your main tank could handle the entire 10G of sump water without overflowing. There are many options. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Auto Top Off Units Hi One of the problems I have living in the desert is evaporation. On my 75 gallon tank I loose about 1/2 gallon a day. Not a major problem when you are home all the time. But my wife and I travel a lot. I have to get some one to come in and add water on a regular basis. The last few times I showed them exactly where the water level should be, yet when we returned it was about 2-3 inches lower then I like, So I have been considering some kind of auto top off system. Just wondering if anyone in the group has any experience with them. If so is a Manufactured System or did you build it yourself. John in Nevada [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26848	From: ED	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Pics Wallpaper

I've been trying to get more pics posted. Yahoo's having fits, got an email from moderators group, fix soon I hope. Someone here emailed me about wallpapers. I'll be happy to share some of my photo's if you wish. Some of these photo's will be entered in MyShot on National Geographic magazine site. ahsta

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26849	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants

Could a glue gun work? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think superglue breaks down over time with water. There may be a water > proof or food-safe type but I haven't seen it. I think the aquarium safe > silicone would be the best bet or a two-part epoxy. I know that acrylic > tanks are "glued" at the seams with epoxy. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants > > > > Try "Superglue". > > People that aquascape with live plants will often use it to adhere a plant > to a rock or piece of wood, or even to the side of the tank. > > -Mike > > I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few leaves hve > come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing them > back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? > > -----Original Message----- > From: pkvzookeeper <keptbythecats@... > <mailto:keptbythecats%40sbcglobal.net> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:45 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants > > I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few leaves hve > come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing them > back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 > 3:03 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26850	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question

Well, I started filling the tank tonight... got it to within 1.75" of the black top and now I have a question about the Whisper In-Tank filter I'm using. I assume the lip of the Whisper has to be over the water - is there a minimum distance the lip should be from the water? With the waterline where it is the filter lip is barely 1/8" above the water. I can change the height of the filter by putting the hook on a different setting, but then it will interfere with the hood and I'll have to cut out part of the hood. So is 1/8" enough or is there a minimum distance for the lip to be above water? Thanks! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26851	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question

I lowered the water line to 2" and posted pics at the group site (under "Lana's Tank")... The filter seems to run okay with what room it has, but now I'm wondering about the heater... Is it submersed enough? Thanks!! -Lana On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > Well, I started filling the tank tonight... got it to within 1.75" of the > black top and now I have a question about the Whisper In-Tank filter I'm > using. > > I assume the lip of the Whisper has to be over the water - is there a > minimum distance the lip should be from the water? With the waterline where > it is the filter lip is barely 1/8" above the water. I can change the > height of the filter by putting the hook on a different setting, but then it > will interfere with the hood and I'll have to cut out part of the hood. So > is 1/8" enough or is there a minimum distance for the lip to be above water? > > Thanks! > > -Lana > > -- "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26852	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants

Not sure. It all depends on the glue. The only "glues" I would use in my tanks would be an aquarium safe silicone or a two part epoxy. You could check with http://www.glasscages.com to see what kind of epoxy they use when building acrylic tanks. I know the one I bought from them has a clear thick epoxy coating on all of the seams. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pkvzookeeper Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 5:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants Could a glue gun work? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think superglue breaks down over time with water. There may be a water > proof or food-safe type but I haven't seen it. I think the aquarium safe > silicone would be the best bet or a two-part epoxy. I know that acrylic > tanks are "glued" at the seams with epoxy. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants > > > > Try "Superglue". > > People that aquascape with live plants will often use it to adhere a plant > to a rock or piece of wood, or even to the side of the tank. > > -Mike > > I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few leaves hve > come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing them > back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? > > -----Original Message----- > From: pkvzookeeper <keptbythecats@... > <mailto:keptbythecats%40sbcglobal.net> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:45 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants > > I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few leaves hve > come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing them > back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question

It all depends on how much surface agitation you want. I've had some tanks where I leave an inch or more from the waterfall to the surface and others where I've had the water up to the lip of the waterfall. If I remember right, this is for a single Betta tank which means it would be fine to have the water level all the way up to the lip of the waterfall so you get little or no surface agitation. If you have a heavy bioload, you would want additional surface agitation to increase the O2 levels in the water but for a Betta, who will breathe at the surface anyhow, the O2 level is not as important. If you add other fish to the tank, you might want to increase surface agitation. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question Well, I started filling the tank tonight... got it to within 1.75" of the black top and now I have a question about the Whisper In-Tank filter I'm using. I assume the lip of the Whisper has to be over the water - is there a minimum distance the lip should be from the water? With the waterline where it is the filter lip is barely 1/8" above the water. I can change the height of the filter by putting the hook on a different setting, but then it will interfere with the hood and I'll have to cut out part of the hood. So is 1/8" enough or is there a minimum distance for the lip to be above water? Thanks! -Lana No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26854	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question

Thanks! It is nice to know that I can put the water as close to the lip as I'd like - It doesn't seem to disturb the surface too much where it is now but I may raise it due to the heater. It was going to be for a single betta but I found another nice one so we're up to 2... :) I had been planning to go up to 4 bettas (all girls) with this tank (and yes I did read a lot about bettas before considering this), but it is so hard to find pretty girls that I was beginning to think I'd never find the rest. As for other fish, I have played around with the idea of adding an otocinclus if I end up with algae buildup - but I don't expect that to be anytime soon. I've been scouting out live plants and tank ornaments to give the gals plenty of places to hide if need be. If I ever do add an oto, it'll be after there's plenty of plants in the water - so would there be as much of a concern for O2 from the filter since plants do convert CO2 into O2? Thanks again! -Lana On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > It all depends on how much surface agitation you want. I've had some > tanks > where I leave an inch or more from the waterfall to the surface and others > where I've had the water up to the lip of the waterfall. If I remember > right, this is for a single Betta tank which means it would be fine to > have > the water level all the way up to the lip of the waterfall so you get > little > or no surface agitation. If you have a heavy bioload, you would want > additional surface agitation to increase the O2 levels in the water but > for > a Betta, who will breathe at the surface anyhow, the O2 level is not as > important. If you add other fish to the tank, you might want to increase > surface agitation. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26855	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question

Ni minimum distance. It really depends on how you react to the sound of continously splashing water. I always want the lip to just touch the water level for peace and quiet. On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > > > > Well, I started filling the tank tonight... got it to within 1.75" of the > black top and now I have a question about the Whisper In-Tank filter I'm > using. > > I assume the lip of the Whisper has to be over the water - is there a > minimum distance the lip should be from the water? With the waterline where > it is the filter lip is barely 1/8" above the water. I can change the > height of the filter by putting the hook on a different setting, but then it > will interfere with the hood and I'll have to cut out part of the hood. So > is 1/8" enough or is there a minimum distance for the lip to be above water? > > Thanks! > > -Lana >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26856	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants

Hello, It is probably not an "epoxy" that is used on acrylic tanks. Sometimes they "Weld" it with electricity and or an acrylic "Cement". At least that was what we did in school when we were working with acrylic. Below is a link for different adhesives from a website for Tap Plastics that I have been shopping at for over 20 years. Quite a variety of items, not all are acrylic specific but if you read the details they give details on what they are to be used with.  http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/category.php?bid=19&PHPSESSID=20080325204551649146033 -Mike Not sure. It all depends on the glue. The only "glues" I would use in my anks would be an aquarium safe silicone or a two part epoxy. You could heck with http://www.glasscages.com to see what kind of epoxy they use when uilding acrylic tanks. I know the one I bought from them has a clear thick poxy coating on all of the seams. Lenny Vasbinder -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 7:52 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants Not sure. It all depends on the glue. The only "glues" I would use in my anks would be an aquarium safe silicone or a two part epoxy. You could heck with http://www.glasscages.com to see what kind of epoxy they use when uilding acrylic tanks. I know the one I bought from them has a clear thick poxy coating on all of the seams. Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On ehalf Of pkvzookeeper ent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 5:50 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ubject: [AquaticLife] Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants Could a glue gun work? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@...> wrote: I think superglue breaks down over time with water. There may be a ater proof or food-safe type but I haven't seen it. I think the quarium safe silicone would be the best bet or a two-part epoxy. I know that crylic tanks are "glued" at the seams with epoxy. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] n Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants Try "Superglue". People that aquascape with live plants will often use it to adhere plant to a rock or piece of wood, or even to the side of the tank. -Mike I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few eaves hve come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing hem back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? -----Original Message----- From: pkvzookeeper <keptbythecats@... <mailto:keptbythecats%40sbcglobal.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 0yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:45 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few eaves hve come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing hem back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? No virus found in this outgoing message. hecked by AVG. ersion: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 :03 PM ----------------------------------- Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26857	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2008
Subject: Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants

Hey Mike, I see you still have the disappearing letter issue. At least in everything below your most recent reply, random first letters are missing. In another group that I belong to, a guy has a problem with the letter "a" where something puts a space before and after the "a" in his Yahoo Group posts. I think I sent you an email about him a while back to see if you two could figure out any common programs you may be using that might cause these two quirks. And don't forget to check out my "ish" blog. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants Hello, It is probably not an "epoxy" that is used on acrylic tanks. Sometimes they "Weld" it with electricity and or an acrylic "Cement". At least that was what we did in school when we were working with acrylic. Below is a link for different adhesives from a website for Tap Plastics that I have been shopping at for over 20 years. Quite a variety of items, not all are acrylic specific but if you read the details they give details on what they are to be used with. http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/category.php?bid=19&PHPSESSID=20080325204551 649146033 <http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/category.php?bid=19&PHPSESSID=2008032520455 1649146033> -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 7:52 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants Not sure. It all depends on the glue. The only "glues" I would use in my anks would be an aquarium safe silicone or a two part epoxy. You could heck with http://www.glasscages.com <http://www.glasscages.com> to see what kind of epoxy they use when uilding acrylic tanks. I know the one I bought from them has a clear thick poxy coating on all of the seams. Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On ehalf Of pkvzookeeper ent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 5:50 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ubject: [AquaticLife] Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants Could a glue gun work? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@...> wrote: I think superglue breaks down over time with water. There may be a ater proof or food-safe type but I haven't seen it. I think the quarium safe silicone would be the best bet or a two-part epoxy. I know that crylic tanks are "glued" at the seams with epoxy. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] n Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants Try "Superglue". People that aquascape with live plants will often use it to adhere plant to a rock or piece of wood, or even to the side of the tank. -Mike I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few eaves hve come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing hem back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? -----Original Message----- From: pkvzookeeper <keptbythecats@... <mailto:keptbythecats%40sbcglobal.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 0yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:45 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few eaves hve come off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing hem back on that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 7:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26858	From: ED	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Pics Wallpaper

LMAO geuss I need to retake the pics <cussin> tooo small of an image. Ah well still good shots. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > I've been trying to get more pics posted. Yahoo's having fits, got an > email from moderators group, fix soon I hope. > Someone here emailed me about wallpapers. > I'll be happy to share some of my photo's if you wish. > Some of these photo's will be entered in MyShot on National Geographic > magazine site. > ahsta >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26859	From: joe t	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question

Lana, If you bought this filter new refer to the instructions on if there has to be a certain water line. If it's necessary they will tell you. Also, if it is necessary, there is usually a line on the instrument itself noted as "water line". The same with the heater. If you have the type that you clip on to the top of the tank, there should be a line on the inside (when looking thru the glass tube) to which you should fill the water. Especially with the heater, if this is the type you have, you should bring the water to the water line or it will not function the way it is supposed to. joe t --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26860	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question

Joe, I forgot to specify in this post both items are second hand and I don't have the instructions. (If I did I wouldn't be bothering the group.) Neither device has a line unfortunately. Thanks to other replies I know the filter is good at pretty much any height - I'm still a little lost on the heater. Thanks! -Lana On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:32 AM, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > Lana, If you bought this filter new refer to the instructions on if > there has to be a certain water line. If it's necessary they will tell > you. Also, if it is necessary, there is usually a line on the instrument > itself noted as "water line". > > The same with the heater. If you have the type that you clip on to the > top of the tank, there should be a line on the inside (when looking thru the > glass tube) to which you should fill the water. Especially with the heater, > if this is the type you have, you should bring the water to the water line > or it will not function the way it is supposed to. > > joe t > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26861	From: Debra	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta

> I ran out of betta fix for a couple of days, which was > when I switched over to Melafix. But after 2 weeks of > treating I thought..hmm I dont think third week will > accomplish much and thought a better way to go is > doing a small water change on him daily as he is back > to acting normal Melissa: Since your Betta has stabilized but still has a ways to go have you looked at his diet? Specifically, do you treat him to frozen blood worms or daphnia occasionally? They are available at most lfs's and are fairly inexpensive. A varied diet is important all the time but especially helpful when fighting infection. Just a thought, Deb Melton

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26862	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta

He is feed HBH betta bites (about 4-5 days a week) and Omega 1 freeze dried blood worms(offered 2-3 days a week). The daphina we have at the store is freeze dried also. ~Melissa --- Debra <dmelton2@...> wrote: > > > I ran out of betta fix for a couple of days, which > was > > when I switched over to Melafix. But after 2 weeks > of > > treating I thought..hmm I dont think third week > will > > accomplish much and thought a better way to go is > > doing a small water change on him daily as he is > back > > to acting normal > > Melissa: > Since your Betta has stabilized but still has a ways > to go have you > looked at his diet? Specifically, do you treat him > to frozen blood > worms or daphnia occasionally? They are available > at most lfs's and > are fairly inexpensive. A varied diet is important > all the time but > especially helpful when fighting infection. > > Just a thought, > > Deb Melton > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26863	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Paludarium inhabitants

I have a 24"x18"x24" exo-terra terrarium done up with about 1/2 water and 1/2 land. It is heavily planted, well lit, and unheated. I'm looking for ideas for potential inhabitants. I would like something relatively inexpensive and easy maintenance that DOES NOT require crickets as a dietary staple. I don't mind fruit flies as I culture them for my fish anyhow, but crickets would be the final straw for my poor hubby :-) Not sure if I want to do water-only and land-only critters or something that will use both, but if land-only, they can't be something that will drown easily. Newts are an option but just wondering if there's anything else that might be fun. Any ideas? -- Carmen

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question

If there's no line, then I would lower the heater to have the water up to right below where the glass tube goes into the plastic control housing. This would solve the issue of making sure the heater is under water enough while also being sure that it does not leak into the unit should it not be a submersible heater. It probably is submersible but until you can find an identical model online or at your local stores, it would be better to be safe than sorry. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question Joe, I forgot to specify in this post both items are second hand and I don't have the instructions. (If I did I wouldn't be bothering the group.) Neither device has a line unfortunately. Thanks to other replies I know the filter is good at pretty much any height - I'm still a little lost on the heater. Thanks! -Lana On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:32 AM, joe t <jett07002@... <mailto:jett07002%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > Lana, If you bought this filter new refer to the instructions on if > there has to be a certain water line. If it's necessary they will tell > you. Also, if it is necessary, there is usually a line on the > instrument itself noted as "water line". > > The same with the heater. If you have the type that you clip on to the > top of the tank, there should be a line on the inside (when looking > thru the glass tube) to which you should fill the water. Especially > with the heater, if this is the type you have, you should bring the > water to the water line or it will not function the way it is supposed to. > > joe t > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 7:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26865	From: hendralim27	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: ornamental freshwater shrimp

Dear Friends, I have found many kind of new freshwater shrimp. pls chcek at my web www.garfishindo.com thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26866	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question

It hangs off the side... how do I lower it? Unlike the filter, it doesn't have depth settings... Thanks! -Lana On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > If there's no line, then I would lower the heater to have the water up to > right below where the glass tube goes into the plastic control housing. > This would solve the issue of making sure the heater is under water enough > while also being sure that it does not leak into the unit should it not be > a > submersible heater. It probably is submersible but until you can find an > identical model online or at your local stores, it would be better to be > safe than sorry. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26867	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question

If it's a hang on heater, then it's probably not submersible. Every submersible I've owned comes with a holder that has suction cups to position the heater inside the tank. Your best bet would be to Google 'Hartz aquarium heater directions' and browse through the hits until you find yours and then look for the proper directions. Probably the Hartz site should have some info or a contact us page where you could send them a picture and they should send you proper instructions. It's probably fine as long as you bring the water level up to an inch or so from the top of the tank but finding the instructions would be best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 10:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question It hangs off the side... how do I lower it? Unlike the filter, it doesn't have depth settings... Thanks! -Lana On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > If there's no line, then I would lower the heater to have the water up > to right below where the glass tube goes into the plastic control housing. > This would solve the issue of making sure the heater is under water > enough while also being sure that it does not leak into the unit > should it not be a submersible heater. It probably is submersible but > until you can find an identical model online or at your local stores, > it would be better to be safe than sorry. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 7:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26868	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question

Thanks Lenny, I've been googling the last few days and haven't had any luck finding this particular heater - I get the feeling it is pretty old when comparing to what I've been seeing as I can't even find it on the Hartz site. I'll keep trying, thanks! -Lana On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > If it's a hang on heater, then it's probably not submersible. Every > submersible I've owned comes with a holder that has suction cups to > position > the heater inside the tank. Your best bet would be to Google 'Hartz > aquarium heater directions' and browse through the hits until you find > yours > and then look for the proper directions. Probably the Hartz site should > have some info or a contact us page where you could send them a picture > and > they should send you proper instructions. It's probably fine as long as > you > bring the water level up to an inch or so from the top of the tank but > finding the instructions would be best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26869	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra Whisper In-Tank Installation Question

This is the same kind of filter that came with my tank. I filled the tank to just below the waterfall.... almost touching it =0) It worked great but I didn't like the space it took-up inside my tank because I was trying to also plant my tank and wanted that area for tall plants. I did a lot of reading/research and remember reading somewhere that these filters were mainly created for turtle tanks. Taking my plant situation and the turtle tank situation into hand, I purchased a Penguin Bio Wheel 200 and gave the Tetra In-Tank to my son for his turtle tank. His tank is now in wonderful shape and so is mine. But yes, you can fill it to the waterfall and it will keep your tank clean. Have a wonderful day =0) Lisa Alabama, USA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26870	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Old Hartz Heater

Well I called Hartz customer service and apparently they stopped manufacturing these about 4 years ago. No wonder I can't find any data on it! I asked the lady I got it from and she said as long as the coil at the way bottom is covered it should be fine. It is definitely submersed that far (with an extra 3") so I think my nervous self is going to try turning it on now... :) Thanks everyone! -Lana, who sees herself replacing this heater in the near future. On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > Thanks Lenny, > > I've been googling the last few days and haven't had any luck finding this > particular heater - I get the feeling it is pretty old when comparing to > what I've been seeing as I can't even find it on the Hartz site. I'll keep > trying, thanks! > > -Lana > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > If it's a hang on heater, then it's probably not submersible. Every > > submersible I've owned comes with a holder that has suction cups to > > position > > the heater inside the tank. Your best bet would be to Google 'Hartz > > aquarium heater directions' and browse through the hits until you find > > yours > > and then look for the proper directions. Probably the Hartz site should > > have some info or a contact us page where you could send them a picture > > and > > they should send you proper instructions. It's probably fine as long as > > you > > bring the water level up to an inch or so from the top of the tank but > > finding the instructions would be best. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26871	From: Chris Corley	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Old Hartz Heater

If that is 4 yrs old the smart thing to do is buy a new one RATHER than taking a chance on something messing up. Just my 2 cents worth Chris C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 12:12 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Old Hartz Heater Well I called Hartz customer service and apparently they stopped manufacturing these about 4 years ago. No wonder I can't find any data on it! I asked the lady I got it from and she said as long as the coil at the way bottom is covered it should be fine. It is definitely submersed that far (with an extra 3") so I think my nervous self is going to try turning it on now... :) Thanks everyone! -Lana, who sees herself replacing this heater in the near future. On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > Thanks Lenny, > > I've been googling the last few days and haven't had any luck finding this > particular heater - I get the feeling it is pretty old when comparing to > what I've been seeing as I can't even find it on the Hartz site. I'll > keep > trying, thanks! > > -Lana > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > If it's a hang on heater, then it's probably not submersible. Every > > submersible I've owned comes with a holder that has suction cups to > > position > > the heater inside the tank. Your best bet would be to Google 'Hartz > > aquarium heater directions' and browse through the hits until you find > > yours > > and then look for the proper directions. Probably the Hartz site should > > have some info or a contact us page where you could send them a picture > > and > > they should send you proper instructions. It's probably fine as long as > > you > > bring the water level up to an inch or so from the top of the tank but > > finding the instructions would be best. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26872	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: ornamental freshwater shrimp

You got some of the Sulawesi shrimp in. Several of the members of my club would be very interested. Can we get a price list please? Thank you, Kate hendralim27 <hendralim27@...> wrote: Dear Friends, I have found many kind of new freshwater shrimp. pls chcek at my web www.garfishindo.com thanks. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26873	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Old Hartz Heater

Wish I could but I really can't afford it right now. I just want to get Dottie out of her 1/2 gallon tank and the new girl out of her cup... -Lana On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Chris Corley <ki4jpg@...> wrote: > If that is 4 yrs old the smart thing to do is buy a new one RATHER than > taking a chance on something messing up. > > > Just my 2 cents worth > Chris C [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26874	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Old Hartz Heater

Hi Lana, In my many years of fish tanks, I have gone through a lot of heaters. Some of them were Hartz. If you have an older heater, it may do your fish a benefit in getting a new one from either Big Als or Foster and Smiths web stores. If the tank is big enough a redundant heater is not harmful in case one stops working the other one takes over. I don't think Hartz heaters were of the highest quality. I prefer one without a relay contact type contact in it in that it is possible with some circuity to turn on a heater coil by use of a Triac and triggered by an electronic sensor. Thus a bad mechanical contact either resistive or shorted will never be an issue. Pick the appropriate size: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18530/cl0/heaters http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+3743 Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Lana Gibbons wrote: > > Well I called Hartz customer service and apparently they stopped > manufacturing these about 4 years ago. No wonder I can't find any data on > it! I asked the lady I got it from and she said as long as the coil at the > way bottom is covered it should be fine. It is definitely submersed that > far (with an extra 3") so I think my nervous self is going to try > turning it > on now... :) > > Thanks everyone! > > -Lana, who sees herself replacing this heater in the near future. > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Lana Gibbons > <lana.m.gibbons@... <mailto:lana.m.gibbons%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > Thanks Lenny, > > > > I've been googling the last few days and haven't had any luck > finding this > > particular heater - I get the feeling it is pretty old when comparing to > > what I've been seeing as I can't even find it on the Hartz site. > I'll keep > > trying, thanks! > > > > -Lana > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > If it's a hang on heater, then it's probably not submersible. Every > > > submersible I've owned comes with a holder that has suction cups to > > > position > > > the heater inside the tank. Your best bet would be to Google 'Hartz > > > aquarium heater directions' and browse through the hits until you find > > > yours > > > and then look for the proper directions. Probably the Hartz site > should > > > have some info or a contact us page where you could send them a > picture > > > and > > > they should send you proper instructions. It's probably fine as > long as > > > you > > > bring the water level up to an inch or so from the top of the tank but > > > finding the instructions would be best. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26875	From: Rich	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: DP in a 5 gallon; tankmates?

Hello list, I currently have a dwarf puffer in a 5 gallon hex tank. I'm considering adding a couple Oto's for cleanup & interest, and they're one of the very few tankmates that exhibit a high rate of success with DP's. As is usual in the hobby, I'm finding wildly divergent opinions on this. I have decided I wouldn't do one Oto as while they'll "make do" alone they do much better with company. I know three would be too many in the tank, not sure about two. I've read they're reasonably hardy once acclimated. I do weekly 50% water changes since DP's are rather messy and the tank small. The other thing that concerns me is reading Otos are picky eaters once they clean the tank of algae. My DP is already a picky eater and dealing with another one isn't high on my list. The DP initially ate frozen bloodworms until he got live snails and now he ignores the bloodworms; I'm working to get him back to the bloodworms. Either way, I'm not going to add anything until I get this guy eating something other than snails, then I'd consider adding something else to the tank. Might just go with ghost shrimp (they'd certainly scarf up excess bloodworm) as they're often left alone by DPs. Oddly they're a bit hard to find locally though. Otos would be my first choice if they're a good fit. Leaving things 'as is' is an option too. I know the tank isn't big enough for 2 DPs and he seems content on his own. Thanks, Rich -- http://richweb.allpar.net/ Mopars, Music & More - since 1997 ~Where are we going, and how did we end up in this handbasket?~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26876	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Old Hartz Heater

Hrrmmm... The tank is up to adequate temperature without the aid of the heater at all. The girls are currently fine at room temp (I do turn on the heat when it gets chilly). I honestly don't know when I'll be able to get a new heater. I'm gonna pick up some incandescents today for my hood and see how much that increases the temp. Does anyone have some 25W heaters sitting around they'd be willing to send me for the cost of shipping?? Thanks! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26877	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Letters, deaths etc. Repair to Fake aquarium plants

AAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!    Lenny,    Thanks for letting me know that I still have the disappearing letter issue.      I recall the email you sent but the last couple months have been abysmally difficult and I have had no time to tend to it.    Just seperated with my wife and moved my fishroom into my parents living room and have had massive die offs.    Cannot locate my test kits and other things like foods and medications. I am not near my regular shops.    Finding BioSpira or whatever passes for living bacteria in a jar these days has been difficult.    I thought I lost a colony of Malagasy fish after I moved as well as my Frontosa colony. Both of those pulled through.     All of my Synodontis cats made it except one Petricola. I have some large Ocellifer and I did not want to lose them.    Since I have lost a number of fish I was able to free up a 60 gallon tank for my parents to use.    I was going to Suggest Monga Bay and will tell them about your " ish" list as well :)    They bought a small clown pleco and it was dead by morning.     I tossed in a sacrificial cichlid last night and he is doing fine.   Not sure where the problem is. I need to break down and buy another test kit. Might as well buy it tonight.   Talk to you soon,   -Mike G. Hey Mike, I see you still have the disappearing letter issue. At least in everything elow your most recent reply, random first letters are missing. In another roup that I belong to, a guy has a problem with the letter "a" where omething puts a space before and after the "a" in his Yahoo Group posts. I hink I sent you an email about him a while back to see if you two could igure out any common programs you may be using that might cause these two uirks. And don't forget to check out my "ish" blog. LOL Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:06 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants Hey Mike, I see you still have the disappearing letter issue. At least in everything elow your most recent reply, random first letters are missing. In another roup that I belong to, a guy has a problem with the letter "a" where omething puts a space before and after the "a" in his Yahoo Group posts. I hink I sent you an email about him a while back to see if you two could igure out any common programs you may be using that might cause these two uirks. And don't forget to check out my "ish" blog. LOL Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On ehalf Of Deenerz@... ent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:50 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants Hello, It is probably not an "epoxy" that is used on acrylic tanks. Sometimes they Weld" it with electricity and or an acrylic "Cement". At least that was hat we did in school when we were working with acrylic. Below is a link for different adhesives from a website for Tap Plastics that have been shopping at for over 20 years. uite a variety of items, not all are acrylic specific but if you read the etails they give details on what they are to be used with. ttp://www.tapplastics.com/shop/category.php?bid=19&PHPSESSID=20080325204551 49146033 http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/category.php?bid=19&PHPSESSID=2008032520455 649146033> -Mike ----Original Message----- rom: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 7:52 pm ubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants Not sure. It all depends on the glue. The only "glues" I would use in my nks would be an aquarium safe silicone or a two part epoxy. You could heck ith http://www.glasscages.com <http://www.glasscages.com> to see what kind f epoxy they use when uilding acrylic tanks. I know the one I bought from hem has a clear thick poxy coating on all of the seams. enny Vasbinder sh Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ----Original Message----- om: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] n ehalf Of pkvzookeeper nt: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 5:50 PM : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> bject: [AquaticLife] Re: Repair to Fake aquarium plants Could a glue gun ork? -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" oldLenny@...> wrote: I think superglue breaks down over time with water. There may be a ater roof or food-safe type but I haven't seen it. I think the quarium safe ilicone would be the best bet or a two-part epoxy. I know that crylic tanks re "glued" at the seams with epoxy. Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] n Behalf Of Deenerz@... ent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:31 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants Try "Superglue". People that aquascape with live plants will often use it to adhere plant to rock or piece of wood, or even to the side of the tank. -Mike I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few eaves hve ome off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing hem back n that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? -----Original Message----- rom: pkvzookeeper <keptbythecats@... mailto:keptbythecats%40sbcglobal.net> > o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife% yahoogroups.com> ent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:45 am ubject: [AquaticLife] Repair to Fake aquarium plants I have acouple of fake fabric plants that I really like but a few eaves hve ome off the "veins". Is the any way to repair them such as glueing hem back n that is safe for the fish and if so what kind? No virus found in this outgoing message. hecked by AVG. ersion: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 :17 PM ----------------------------------- Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26878	From: ED	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: PICS

Pics are up posted and I'll be happy to share. You can see "Uncle Red" improves with good food(3wks). Blood worms, brine shrimp, mysis shrimp and flakes. Makes a differance.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26879	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium inhabitants

Yes, the Oriental Fire-bellied Toad http://www.amphibian.co.uk/bombina.html http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/caresheets/firebelliedtoad.html They have been known to live up to 16 years in captivity! I posted about them a little while ago. You need to make sure they can get a foothold from the aquatic part to the land part. Barring that as a problem, they are very sturdy and don't drown like terrestrial frogs do. Crickets are more nutritious than worms, especially if you gut load the crickets in advance. Just get a few, like 15 or so 2-week old crickets and keep them in a container with nutritious food like a slice of broccoli. Replendish daily. The toads only need to be fed once a week or so (they are greedy GLUTTONS), and 15 crickets will last for ages. When you run out of young crickets you can serve waxworms and other small worms but worms are harder to digest, lower in nutritional content and more fattening. Don't overdo with the lighting; it stresses out the tank inhabitants. Use low-light plants like the chinese evergreen, peace lily and devil's ivy. There are others, just google 'low light tropical plants'. Christa --- Carmen H <eskielists@...> wrote: > I have a 24"x18"x24" exo-terra terrarium done up > with about 1/2 water > and 1/2 land. It is heavily planted, well lit, and > unheated. I'm > looking for ideas for potential inhabitants. I > would like something > relatively inexpensive and easy maintenance that > DOES NOT require > crickets as a dietary staple. I don't mind fruit > flies as I culture > them for my fish anyhow, but crickets would be the > final straw for my > poor hubby :-) Not sure if I want to do water-only > and land-only > critters or something that will use both, but if > land-only, they can't > be something that will drown easily. Newts are an > option but just > wondering if there's anything else that might be > fun. > Any ideas? > -- > Carmen > __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26880	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Old Hartz Heater

Just got up here after a busy and problematic day. As has already been pointed out, this is not the best quality heater, but I understand not being able to fit a new one into the budget right now. As it now seems, you may not have plugged it in, but instead will be going with the room temperature. If and when you do decide to use it, just having water over the heater coils is not enough as the thermostat part of the unit will be registering mainly the room temperature since it will be out of the water. I don't know what your present water level is -- if you've stated it, I missed it. But I was wondering what the problem was as far as having the proper water level. Is there a reason why you prefer not to fill the tank up more (IF you prefer this)? The water level for the hang-on heater should be somewhat above the thermostat so as to subject that part to the temperature of the water. This can vary from heater to heater, but will be appoximately 1" (or less), give or take, below the tank rim. Filling too much can cause seepage through the top of the unit if there's an airstone nearby, or from splashing of the filter if its near it (which it should not be anyway). The Whisper filter will operate better also, with the water level about 1" lower than the rim. A water level too low will prevent the filter from drawing up the water. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > Well I called Hartz customer service and apparently they stopped > manufacturing these about 4 years ago. No wonder I can't find any data on > it! I asked the lady I got it from and she said as long as the coil at the > way bottom is covered it should be fine. It is definitely submersed that > far (with an extra 3") so I think my nervous self is going to try turning it > on now... :) > > Thanks everyone! > > -Lana, who sees herself replacing this heater in the near future. > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> > wrote: > > > Thanks Lenny, > > > > I've been googling the last few days and haven't had any luck finding this > > particular heater - I get the feeling it is pretty old when comparing to > > what I've been seeing as I can't even find it on the Hartz site. I'll keep > > trying, thanks! > > > > -Lana > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > > GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > If it's a hang on heater, then it's probably not submersible. Every > > > submersible I've owned comes with a holder that has suction cups to > > > position > > > the heater inside the tank. Your best bet would be to Google 'Hartz > > > aquarium heater directions' and browse through the hits until you find > > > yours > > > and then look for the proper directions. Probably the Hartz site should > > > have some info or a contact us page where you could send them a picture > > > and > > > they should send you proper instructions. It's probably fine as long as > > > you > > > bring the water level up to an inch or so from the top of the tank but > > > finding the instructions would be best. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26881	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: Old Hartz Heater

Hi Ray, The Whisper In-Tank filter is the main issue - I'd have to mangle the hood to get it to fit any higher than the lowest/deepest setting. The Whisper In-Tank filter is 10-20 gallon size and I'm starting to think it should probably just be marketed for 20G tanks as it takes up a lot of space in the 10G. I added more water all the way up to the waterfall ledge, as high as I can fill it without submerging the rest of the filter and that puts me at 1.5" below the bottom of the black lip. How do I tell what part is the thermostat on the heater? The bottom is a coil, the middle has a LED with a resistor just above and the top has what appears to be a flat round capacitor just below a contact which the dial screws down to activate. The coil, LED and resistor are submerged - the capacitor and the contact aren't. I can take a pic if it will help. -Lana On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > I don't know what your present water level is -- if you've > stated it, I missed it. But I was wondering what the problem was as > far as having the proper water level. Is there a reason why you > prefer not to fill the tank up more (IF you prefer this)? The water > level for the hang-on heater should be somewhat above the thermostat > so as to subject that part to the temperature of the water. This can > vary from heater to heater, but will be appoximately 1" (or less), > give or take, below the tank rim. Filling too much can cause seepage > through the top of the unit if there's an airstone nearby, or from > splashing of the filter if its near it (which it should not be > anyway). The Whisper filter will operate better also, with the > water level about 1" lower than the rim. A water level too low will > prevent the filter from drawing up the water. Ray > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26882	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: What exactly is in "algae meal"?

I currently feed my bettas freezedried and frozen foods to avoid all the fillers and additives used in flake and pellet foods. Once my tank is established, I'd like to get an oto, but there doesn't seem to be any additive-free options out there for algae eaters. After reading many ingredient statements, I'm wondering: What exactly is in "algae meal"? Some labels list this in addition to spirulina, some list it as "spirulina algae meal" and yet others don't mention spirulina at all. Is "algae meal" always spirulina or can it be chlorella or other algae too? Thanks!! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26883	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: What exactly is in "algae meal"?

Sounds like that would be best addressed to each food manufacturer. If it's Chinese made, algae meal could be melamine. LOL I'm looking at my pack of Hikari Algae Wafers and there's lots of "meals" (fish meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat germ meal, dried seaweeds meal, krill meal) and lots of other non-meal goodies but no algae meal. Of course, there's something called "dried bakery products" so I'm guessing that could be stale donuts or pound cake but who knows. LOL Hikari is supposed to be a quality fish food manufacturer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:54 PM To: aquaticlife Subject: [AquaticLife] What exactly is in "algae meal"? I currently feed my bettas freezedried and frozen foods to avoid all the fillers and additives used in flake and pellet foods. Once my tank is established, I'd like to get an oto, but there doesn't seem to be any additive-free options out there for algae eaters. After reading many ingredient statements, I'm wondering: What exactly is in "algae meal"? Some labels list this in addition to spirulina, some list it as "spirulina algae meal" and yet others don't mention spirulina at all. Is "algae meal" always spirulina or can it be chlorella or other algae too? Thanks!! -Lana No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 7:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26884	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 3/26/2008
Subject: Re: What exactly is in "algae meal"?

I believe, traditionally, "meal" refers to a ground up or finely grained product...usually grains... From the Miriam Webster dictionary... Main Entry: fish meal Function: noun Date: 1854 : ground dried fish and fish waste used as fertilizer and animal food (big ewww) Main Entry: 2meal Function: noun Etymology: Middle English mele, from Old English melu; akin to Old High German melo meal, Latin molere to grind, Greek mylē mill Date: before 12th century 1: the usually coarsely ground and unbolted seeds of a cereal grass or pulse; especially : cornmeal2: a product resembling seed meal especially in particle size or texture Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny /*Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:55 PM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What exactly is in "algae meal"? /* /*Sounds like that would be best addressed to each food manufacturer. /* /*If it's Chinese made, algae meal could be melamine. LOL /* /*I'm looking at my pack of Hikari Algae Wafers and there's lots of "meals" /*(fish meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat germ meal, dried seaweeds meal, /*krill meal) and lots of other non-meal goodies but no algae meal. Of /*course, there's something called "dried bakery products" so I'm guessing /*that could be stale donuts or pound cake but who knows. LOL Hikari is /*supposed to be a quality fish food manufacturer. /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Lana Gibbons /*Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:54 PM /*To: aquaticlife /*Subject: [AquaticLife] What exactly is in "algae meal"? /* /*I currently feed my bettas freezedried and frozen foods to avoid all the /*fillers and additives used in flake and pellet foods. Once my tank is /*established, I'd like to get an oto, but there doesn't seem to be any /*additive-free options out there for algae eaters. After reading many /*ingredient statements, I'm wondering: What exactly is in "algae meal"? /*Some /*labels list this in addition to spirulina, some list it as "spirulina /*algae /*meal" and yet others don't mention spirulina at all. Is "algae meal" /*always /*spirulina or can it be chlorella or other algae too? /* /*Thanks!! /* /*-Lana /* /* /*No virus found in this outgoing message. /*Checked by AVG. /*Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 /*7:17 PM /* /* /* /*------------------------------------ /* /*Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. /*·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /*

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26885	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium inhabitants

They are really cool but unfortunately, I have already told my hubby I won't do crickets. He is seriously bug-phobic and I even have to keep the friuitflies hidden, they gross him out so much, but he tries to ignore them cuz he knows how beneficial they are for the fishies. It really wouldn't be fair to him to introduce crickets. Give and take sometimes sucks :-/ Carmen On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Christa Ciglan <cciglan@...> wrote: > > > > > Yes, the Oriental Fire-bellied Toad > http://www.amphibian.co.uk/bombina.html > http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/caresheets/firebelliedtoad.html > > They have been known to live up to 16 years in > captivity! I posted about them a little while ago. > You need to make sure they can get a foothold from the > aquatic part to the land part. Barring that as a > problem, they are very sturdy and don't drown like > terrestrial frogs do. Crickets are more nutritious

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26886	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta *update*

Well after 3 weeks of being ill, and some progress I found him dead this morning :( It is so strange when things happen at times. I knew he was ill, but at the same time he was acting normal, ate normal, reminds me of a sick person, you know they are sick, but still suprised when they die as they seemed fine. I know you guys said they can live past 5 years, and as my betta was probably close to 4.5, I still think that is not to bad as most people I know are lucky to get them to live to 2 years. I just feel bad now knowing he still would have had a few years left in him had he not gotten ill. And I still do not understand how after 4+ years being housed a particular way, it took that long to become ill when all along the way his housing/treatment was the same. None the less, I am bummed. But even with his death, I will move on, and I will search for a new betta. The downfall, we switched companies where we get betta from, and the ones we get now, 50% die within a day or two of arrival. Almost afraid to get them from there(I dont remmber the company off hand). when we got from Tides In, they had great bettas, lucky to loose 3 out of 75 shipped to us, and their betta all around looked nicer. Have any of you guys gotten bettas from Segrest Farms? They are another supplier, and we have gotten bettas from them in eons, i think the last time I orded from them (back when I was ft there) was about 5 years ago. Or do you knw of anywhere I could get a good healthy betta from? Obviously not all pet store bettas are unhealthy as mine lived as long as he did. Just curious on your guys take, and where you get yours. I seen some cool ones on ebay, not to sure about buying a fish on ebay though. Any ideas? ~Melissa ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26887	From: Amy	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: What exactly is in "algae meal"?

I may be doing it wrong, but all my algea eatting fish are fed Sally's Seaweed Salad, it is natural green marine algea, and then Spirulina tabs that I get from my fish guy (not sure the brand). It doesn't have any problems effecting the filtration or muddy up the water. The fish love the green algea. I have a bunch of those sinking fish that hold the algea down for you and the big fish swarm the algea when I put it in. I also hand feed little squares of it to my Turbo snails. I of course am not sure if I am supposed to be feeding them anything more than that, but all my fish are healthy and seem well fed. Hope that helps a little bit. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > I currently feed my bettas freezedried and frozen foods to avoid all the > fillers and additives used in flake and pellet foods. Once my tank is > established, I'd like to get an oto, but there doesn't seem to be any > additive-free options out there for algae eaters. After reading many > ingredient statements, I'm wondering: What exactly is in "algae meal"? Some > labels list this in addition to spirulina, some list it as "spirulina algae > meal" and yet others don't mention spirulina at all. Is "algae meal" always > spirulina or can it be chlorella or other algae too? > > Thanks!! > > -Lana > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26888	From: Amy	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta *update*

Sorry for your loss. I always get attached to my bettas, they seem to get to know you like goldfish and puffers do. My guy that I have now lives in my kitchen in a 3 gallon biocube. I have it set on low filtration, because they are used to living in mud puddles. I do get my bettas from PetCo, BUT I have a good relationship with the people who work there and I know when the fish come in. Also my PetCo has female bettas in 10 gallon tanks not in those little cups. I rate a pet store, chain or otherwise, by how well their fish are taken care of. When you start looking again for a new betta, I would find the company that you feel more comfortable with and they are willing to answer all of your questions plus willingh to replace the fish if soemthing were to happen. I definetly would not buy fish off of ebay, but that is just me. I guess it depends if the ebay seller is a company that deals in fish it may be okay. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Walker <playnwifsnot@...> wrote: > > > Well after 3 weeks of being ill, and some progress I > found him dead this morning :( It is so strange when > things happen at times. I knew he was ill, but at the > same time he was acting normal, ate normal, reminds me > of a sick person, you know they are sick, but still > suprised when they die as they seemed fine. I know you > guys said they can live past 5 years, and as my betta > was probably close to 4.5, I still think that is not > to bad as most people I know are lucky to get them to > live to 2 years. I just feel bad now knowing he still > would have had a few years left in him had he not > gotten ill. And I still do not understand how after 4+ > years being housed a particular way, it took that long > to become ill when all along the way his > housing/treatment was the same. None the less, I am > bummed. > > But even with his death, I will move on, and I will > search for a new betta. The downfall, we switched > companies where we get betta from, and the ones we get > now, 50% die within a day or two of arrival. Almost > afraid to get them from there(I dont remmber the > company off hand). when we got from Tides In, they had > great bettas, lucky to loose 3 out of 75 shipped to > us, and their betta all around looked nicer. Have any > of you guys gotten bettas from Segrest Farms? They are > another supplier, and we have gotten bettas from them > in eons, i think the last time I orded from them (back > when I was ft there) was about 5 years ago. Or do you > knw of anywhere I could get a good healthy betta from? > Obviously not all pet store bettas are unhealthy as > mine lived as long as he did. Just curious on your > guys take, and where you get yours. I seen some cool > ones on ebay, not to sure about buying a fish on ebay > though. Any ideas? > > ~Melissa > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ _______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26889	From: Amy	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: DP in a 5 gallon; tankmates?

Uuuummm, your puffer would love ghost shrimp....lol as a snack. Puffers are hard to find tank mates for they eat everything, even things bigger than them. I am just learning about DP's because my friend got some. I am used to the brackish puffers, not FW ones. I assume though that they are the same when it comes to eatting habits. I have night goby's in with my puffers. Once again brackish though. I think that if you give the DP's enough room they will be fine with other DP's. Of course a 5 gallon is probably too small for this. Puff's really like to have there space. They also may fight over food. As for keeping the algea down in your tank I would find big snails, not the feeder kind. I do not know anything about snails, but I can not see a DP picking on one of those huge kinds like an Apple Snail or whatever the fresh water big snail is. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Rich <njdevilshockey@...> wrote: > > Hello list, > > I currently have a dwarf puffer in a 5 gallon hex tank. I'm considering adding a couple Oto's for cleanup & interest, and they're one of the very few tankmates that exhibit a high rate of success with DP's. > > As is usual in the hobby, I'm finding wildly divergent opinions on this. I have decided I wouldn't do one Oto as while they'll "make do" alone they do much better with company. I know three would be too many in the tank, not sure about two. > > I've read they're reasonably hardy once acclimated. I do weekly 50% water changes since DP's are rather messy and the tank small. > > The other thing that concerns me is reading Otos are picky eaters once they clean the tank of algae. My DP is already a picky eater and dealing with another one isn't high on my list. The DP initially ate frozen bloodworms until he got live snails and now he ignores the bloodworms; I'm working to get him back to the bloodworms. > > Either way, I'm not going to add anything until I get this guy eating something other than snails, then I'd consider adding something else to the tank. Might just go with ghost shrimp (they'd certainly scarf up excess bloodworm) as they're often left alone by DPs. Oddly they're a bit hard to find locally though. Otos would be my first choice if they're a good fit. > > Leaving things 'as is' is an option too. I know the tank isn't big enough for 2 DPs and he seems content on his own. > > Thanks, > > Rich > > -- > http://richweb.allpar.net/ > Mopars, Music & More - since 1997 > ~Where are we going, and how did we end up in this handbasket?~ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26890	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Questions about newly planted tank

I'd like to start by saying, horraaayyyy for freecycle! :) I got a handful of plant cuttings from freecycle today and did my best at planting them. I have a java fern, narrowleaf java fern, peacock moss, naja grass, some hygro and an unidentified. I'm a little confused on the peacock moss - I can't find any roots to plant! I've got it wadded up in a corner right now and it seems to be staying still, but I want to make sure there isn't something more I'm supposed to do with it. I also have another plant that doesn't appear to have roots - I think it is the naja grass. Also don't quite know what to do with this one - right now its just hanging between the java and narrowleaf java. I took some pics of the tank and put them in my album. Thanks everyone!! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26891	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Parasite??

Hey all -- hoping somebody can help -- I just (today) noticed a thin hair like "thing" attaced to the tail (appears to be just into the flesh) of one of my rainbow fish... it's less than a quarter inch long, about the width of a human hair and seems to be almost translucent... do I have a bug? If so what is it and what do I need to get rid of it. Tank is a hundred gallons w/ snails in residence, so I would prefer to isolate the fish or treat w/ something that won't kill the snails. The "thing" doesn't seem to match the description of anything I've found online and doesn't appear to be causing the fish distress... but it would help if these guys would to sit still for more than sixty seconds at a time! (I've got nine rainbows, a rainbow shark and a betta currently in the sick tank recovering from a damaged fin. He's about ready to go back home -- although I'm sure if he could voice his opinion, he would have said he never wanted to leave the big tank!) Thanks, Helen I haven't tested the nitrate this week, but as of the last water change, my nitrites and ammonia are 0, pH is right around 7, temp. is 78/80 and I change the water once or twice a week (would rather haul fewer buckets more frequently -- I do 5 or 6 2.5 gallon buckets ever three or four days.) It's a fully planted tank; the last addition to the tank was about two weeks ago, I added some trumpet snails.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26892	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium inhabitants

You can feed them worms... there are 1. mealworms 2. butterworms 3. ? Brainfart. they're orange coloured, but they're usually pretty big, the big ones are too big for the toads I understand earthworms are nutritious, but you need to make certain the earth isn't contaminated. Ditto with grasshoppers; just catch and serve. They love them! Don't overfeed worms, they're fattening and can be a little tough to digest (waxworms are very fattening). I recommend that you do some research to make sure they're getting the fibre they need. The toads really only need to be fed once a week (in my experience); otherwise and they become obese. You will need to sprinkle the worms before you serve; I just crush one of my daily vitamin supplement pills, and add some crushed calcium with D-3. I've had my toads for several years now. Once again, don't overdo with the vitamins. Be forewarned, they're escape artists so make sure the tank is secure. CC --- Carmen H <eskielists@...> wrote: > They are really cool but unfortunately, I have > already told my hubby I > won't do crickets. He is seriously bug-phobic and I > even have to keep > the friuitflies hidden, they gross him out so much, > but he tries to > ignore them cuz he knows how beneficial they are for > the fishies. It > really wouldn't be fair to him to introduce > crickets. Give and take > sometimes sucks :-/ > > Carmen > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Christa Ciglan > <cciglan@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, the Oriental Fire-bellied Toad > > http://www.amphibian.co.uk/bombina.html > > > http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/caresheets/firebelliedtoad.html > > > > They have been known to live up to 16 years in > > captivity! I posted about them a little while ago. > > You need to make sure they can get a foothold from > the > > aquatic part to the land part. Barring that as a > > problem, they are very sturdy and don't drown like > > terrestrial frogs do. Crickets are more nutritious > __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26893	From: William	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Parasite??

It sounds like an anchor worm and you should be able to get rid of it with a good anti-parasite med. Ask you LFS for their recommendation for a good anti-parasite med. And yes if would be best to treat him/her in a smaller tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "H. B. Pattskyn" <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > Hey all -- hoping somebody can help -- I just (today) noticed a thin > hair like "thing" attaced to the tail (appears to be just into the > flesh) of one of my rainbow fish... it's less than a quarter inch > long, about the width of a human hair and seems to be almost > translucent... do I have a bug? If so what is it and what do I need > to get rid of it. Tank is a hundred gallons w/ snails in residence, > so I would prefer to isolate the fish or treat w/ something that > won't kill the snails. The "thing" doesn't seem to match the > description of anything I've found online and doesn't appear to be > causing the fish distress... but it would help if these guys would to > sit still for more than sixty seconds at a time! (I've got nine > rainbows, a rainbow shark and a betta currently in the sick tank > recovering from a damaged fin. He's about ready to go back home -- > although I'm sure if he could voice his opinion, he would have said > he never wanted to leave the big tank!) > > Thanks, > Helen > > I haven't tested the nitrate this week, but as of the last water > change, my nitrites and ammonia are 0, pH is right around 7, temp. is > 78/80 and I change the water once or twice a week (would rather haul > fewer buckets more frequently -- I do 5 or 6 2.5 gallon buckets ever > three or four days.) It's a fully planted tank; the last addition to > the tank was about two weeks ago, I added some trumpet snails. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26894	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium inhabitants

Ok, I'll surf a bit and talk to a friend who has them. Thanks for all the info! Carmen On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Christa Ciglan <cciglan@...> wrote: > > > > > > > You can feed them worms... there are

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26895	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Parasite??

Have you looked for anchor worm? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Parasite?? Hey all -- hoping somebody can help -- I just (today) noticed a thin hair like "thing" attaced to the tail (appears to be just into the flesh) of one of my rainbow fish... it's less than a quarter inch long, about the width of a human hair and seems to be almost translucent... do I have a bug? If so what is it and what do I need to get rid of it. Tank is a hundred gallons w/ snails in residence, so I would prefer to isolate the fish or treat w/ something that won't kill the snails. The "thing" doesn't seem to match the description of anything I've found online and doesn't appear to be causing the fish distress... but it would help if these guys would to sit still for more than sixty seconds at a time! (I've got nine rainbows, a rainbow shark and a betta currently in the sick tank recovering from a damaged fin. He's about ready to go back home -- although I'm sure if he could voice his opinion, he would have said he never wanted to leave the big tank!) Thanks, Helen I haven't tested the nitrate this week, but as of the last water change, my nitrites and ammonia are 0, pH is right around 7, temp. is 78/80 and I change the water once or twice a week (would rather haul fewer buckets more frequently -- I do 5 or 6 2.5 gallon buckets ever three or four days.) It's a fully planted tank; the last addition to the tank was about two weeks ago, I added some trumpet snails. ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26896	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta *update*

I've read some good things about Segrest Farms and I know they have a "Petshop Locator" page http://www.segrestfarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=petshop.locator on their site for us regular consumers. They also make their "catalog" available for online searching of what they have available to the stores they distribute to. Your other option is http://www.Aquabid.com which is like an eBay just for fish keepers. You can probably find some quality betta breeders on there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Walker Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Betta *update* Well after 3 weeks of being ill, and some progress I found him dead this morning :( It is so strange when things happen at times. I knew he was ill, but at the same time he was acting normal, ate normal, reminds me of a sick person, you know they are sick, but still suprised when they die as they seemed fine. I know you guys said they can live past 5 years, and as my betta was probably close to 4.5, I still think that is not to bad as most people I know are lucky to get them to live to 2 years. I just feel bad now knowing he still would have had a few years left in him had he not gotten ill. And I still do not understand how after 4+ years being housed a particular way, it took that long to become ill when all along the way his housing/treatment was the same. None the less, I am bummed. But even with his death, I will move on, and I will search for a new betta. The downfall, we switched companies where we get betta from, and the ones we get now, 50% die within a day or two of arrival. Almost afraid to get them from there(I dont remmber the company off hand). when we got from Tides In, they had great bettas, lucky to loose 3 out of 75 shipped to us, and their betta all around looked nicer. Have any of you guys gotten bettas from Segrest Farms? They are another supplier, and we have gotten bettas from them in eons, i think the last time I orded from them (back when I was ft there) was about 5 years ago. Or do you knw of anywhere I could get a good healthy betta from? Obviously not all pet store bettas are unhealthy as mine lived as long as he did. Just curious on your guys take, and where you get yours. I seen some cool ones on ebay, not to sure about buying a fish on ebay though. Any ideas? ~Melissa No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1345 - Release Date: 3/26/2008 6:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26897	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Parasite??

Check out the pictures of various parasites on this site and see if any match what you are seeing. http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html You might want to bookmark that page for future references. It's the BEST site that I've ever seen on the net for fish health issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Parasite?? Hey all -- hoping somebody can help -- I just (today) noticed a thin hair like "thing" attaced to the tail (appears to be just into the flesh) of one of my rainbow fish... it's less than a quarter inch long, about the width of a human hair and seems to be almost translucent... do I have a bug? If so what is it and what do I need to get rid of it. Tank is a hundred gallons w/ snails in residence, so I would prefer to isolate the fish or treat w/ something that won't kill the snails. The "thing" doesn't seem to match the description of anything I've found online and doesn't appear to be causing the fish distress... but it would help if these guys would to sit still for more than sixty seconds at a time! (I've got nine rainbows, a rainbow shark and a betta currently in the sick tank recovering from a damaged fin. He's about ready to go back home -- although I'm sure if he could voice his opinion, he would have said he never wanted to leave the big tank!) Thanks, Helen I haven't tested the nitrate this week, but as of the last water change, my nitrites and ammonia are 0, pH is right around 7, temp. is 78/80 and I change the water once or twice a week (would rather haul fewer buckets more frequently -- I do 5 or 6 2.5 gallon buckets ever three or four days.) It's a fully planted tank; the last addition to the tank was about two weeks ago, I added some trumpet snails. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1345 - Release Date: 3/26/2008 6:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26898	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium inhabitants

Christa said: "You can feed them... 3. ? Brainfart..." I doubt your frogs would like my ex-wife very much... and if she kissed them, it would be more likely to kill them than turn them into a prince. :-P (Sorry.. couldn't resist! :P) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christa Ciglan Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Paludarium inhabitants You can feed them worms... there are 1. mealworms 2. butterworms 3. ? Brainfart. they're orange coloured, but they're usually pretty big, the big ones are too big for the toads I understand earthworms are nutritious, but you need to make certain the earth isn't contaminated. Ditto with grasshoppers; just catch and serve. They love them! Don't overfeed worms, they're fattening and can be a little tough to digest (waxworms are very fattening). I recommend that you do some research to make sure they're getting the fibre they need. The toads really only need to be fed once a week (in my experience); otherwise and they become obese. You will need to sprinkle the worms before you serve; I just crush one of my daily vitamin supplement pills, and add some crushed calcium with D-3. I've had my toads for several years now. Once again, don't overdo with the vitamins. Be forewarned, they're escape artists so make sure the tank is secure. CC --- Carmen H <eskielists@... <mailto:eskielists%40reskie.com> > wrote: > They are really cool but unfortunately, I have already told my hubby I > won't do crickets. He is seriously bug-phobic and I even have to keep > the friuitflies hidden, they gross him out so much, but he tries to > ignore them cuz he knows how beneficial they are for the fishies. It > really wouldn't be fair to him to introduce crickets. Give and take > sometimes sucks :-/ > > Carmen > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Christa Ciglan <cciglan@... > <mailto:cciglan%40yahoo.ca> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, the Oriental Fire-bellied Toad > > http://www.amphibian.co.uk/bombina.html > > <http://www.amphibian.co.uk/bombina.html> > > > http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/caresheets/firebelliedtoad.html <http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/caresheets/firebelliedtoad.html> > > > > They have been known to live up to 16 years in captivity! I posted > > about them a little while ago. > > You need to make sure they can get a foothold from > the > > aquatic part to the land part. Barring that as a problem, they are > > very sturdy and don't drown like terrestrial frogs do. Crickets are > > more nutritious > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1345 - Release Date: 3/26/2008 6:50 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26899	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about newly planted tank

I am sorry, but I cannot answer your questions for lack of experience with the plants you mention. However, I do wish to make a comment about your Java fern. It should not be planted in the substrate. All you need to do is to tie it, or anchor it in another manner, to a rock or some driftwood. It will eventually anchor itself. I have forgotten the reason why it will not do well as a rooted plant, but you should get a spectacular plant once it starts growing, anchoring it to the driftwood or a rock. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 5:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about newly planted tank I'd like to start by saying, horraaayyyy for freecycle! :) I got a handful of plant cuttings from freecycle today and did my best at planting them. I have a java fern, narrowleaf java fern, peacock moss, naja grass, some hygro and an unidentified. I'm a little confused on the peacock moss - I can't find any roots to plant! I've got it wadded up in a corner right now and it seems to be staying still, but I want to make sure there isn't something more I'm supposed to do with it. I also have another plant that doesn't appear to have roots - I think it is the naja grass. Also don't quite know what to do with this one - right now its just hanging between the java and narrowleaf java. I took some pics of the tank and put them in my album. Thanks everyone!! -Lana

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26900	From: Jenn	Date: 3/27/2008
Subject: Bamboo shrimp

Is there anyone in the Pittsburgh PA area that breeds or has bamboo shrimp for sale? Also, if anyone wants to check out my pics go to www.myspace.com/jennhonaker to see some. Some are pretty blurry, I'm getting used to a new camera!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26901	From: Lisa	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: New member intro

Hi! I'm new here. My name is Lisa and I live in Australia. I have a large interest in aquariums, and are eager to share my fishy stories with you all. Currently I own; 1 white VT male betta 1 blue/green CT female betta and 4 leopard danios

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26902	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: New member intro

G'Day Lisa, Welcome to the Group! I hope your interest in aquariums continues to expand; it can be a very interesting and rewarding hobby. I'm sure we'd all like to hear your fishy stories. Enjoy your stay. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi! > I'm new here. > My name is Lisa and I live in Australia. > I have a large interest in aquariums, and are eager to share my fishy > stories with you all. > > Currently I own; > 1 white VT male betta > 1 blue/green CT female betta > and > 4 leopard danios >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26903	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Parasite??

Lenny -- would you double check your URL -- I click on the link and get to another site all together (the "wayback" machine" trying to tell me that the website no longer exists... I'm going to do a search on the names in the link, but a couple of the links you've sent recently to the list have come up that way. And thanks to everyone else -- we're going to have another go at catching her when my husbnad gets home later -- navigating around a 100 gal. planted tank filled isn't easy! Even though she's one of the larger of my rainbow fish, they all start to look alike when they start darting around and hiding in the plants. We did catch one fish last night but even after examining her and figuring out it wasn't the one with the thing on her tail, they were all still in hiding. ~Helen --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Check out the pictures of various parasites on this site and see if any > match what you are seeing. > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di sease. > html You might want to bookmark that page for future references. It's the > BEST site that I've ever seen on the net for fish health issues. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Parasite?? > > Hey all -- hoping somebody can help -- I just (today) noticed a thin hair > like "thing" attaced to the tail (appears to be just into the > flesh) of one of my rainbow fish... it's less than a quarter inch long, > about the width of a human hair and seems to be almost translucent... do I > have a bug? If so what is it and what do I need to get rid of it. Tank is a > hundred gallons w/ snails in residence, so I would prefer to isolate the > fish or treat w/ something that won't kill the snails. The "thing" doesn't > seem to match the description of anything I've found online and doesn't > appear to be causing the fish distress... but it would help if these guys > would to sit still for more than sixty seconds at a time! (I've got nine > rainbows, a rainbow shark and a betta currently in the sick tank recovering > from a damaged fin. He's about ready to go back home -- although I'm sure if > he could voice his opinion, he would have said he never wanted to leave the > big tank!) > > Thanks, > Helen > > I haven't tested the nitrate this week, but as of the last water change, my > nitrites and ammonia are 0, pH is right around 7, temp. is 78/80 and I > change the water once or twice a week (would rather haul fewer buckets more > frequently -- I do 5 or 6 2.5 gallon buckets ever three or four days.) It's > a fully planted tank; the last addition to the tank was about two weeks ago, > I added some trumpet snails. > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1345 - Release Date: 3/26/2008 > 6:50 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26904	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: more bugs...

Maybe it's me... but it looks like a mini-infestation of little white "dandilion tufts" all over the bottom of the tank. They're not as tufty, but have four long "hairs" growing out of the main body of (a long human hair looking thing... I'm going to vacuum now, but I have the feeling I'm going to need to do more than that... suggestions...?? Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26905	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Betta *update*

well our store gets 90% of our fish from segrest, the ther 10% is the bettas and the feeders and koi, those come from Ozark(great fishery, I have gotten to go there twice). And our sales rep for Segrest is a great guy, worked with him over the phone for 6 years before I demoted myself. It just has been so long since we did bettas from them, but I know if I told Gary what I wanted, he would find it for me (its great when you have 54 stores and your rep knows you by voice alone, its a good feeling). Only thing is, I have seen their half moons, they are not as half moony as I have seen from the select breeders, but I honestly can not see spending 25-35 dollars on a beta fish, maybe if I was going to breed, but I just want a nice pet. And I have seen the pics of their crowntails which look pretty nice. But thanks for all your help! ~Melissa --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I've read some good things about Segrest Farms and I > know they have a > "Petshop Locator" page > http://www.segrestfarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=petshop.locator > on their > site for us regular consumers. They also make their > "catalog" available for > online searching of what they have available to the > stores they distribute > to. > > Your other option is http://www.Aquabid.com which is > like an eBay just for > fish keepers. You can probably find some quality > betta breeders on there. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Melissa Walker > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Betta *update* > > > Well after 3 weeks of being ill, and some progress I > found him dead this > morning :( It is so strange when things happen at > times. I knew he was ill, > but at the same time he was acting normal, ate > normal, reminds me of a sick > person, you know they are sick, but still suprised > when they die as they > seemed fine. I know you guys said they can live past > 5 years, and as my > betta was probably close to 4.5, I still think that > is not to bad as most > people I know are lucky to get them to live to 2 > years. I just feel bad now > knowing he still would have had a few years left in > him had he not gotten > ill. And I still do not understand how after 4+ > years being housed a > particular way, it took that long to become ill when > all along the way his > housing/treatment was the same. None the less, I am > bummed. > > But even with his death, I will move on, and I will > search for a new betta. > The downfall, we switched companies where we get > betta from, and the ones we > get now, 50% die within a day or two of arrival. > Almost afraid to get them > from there(I dont remmber the company off hand). > when we got from Tides In, > they had great bettas, lucky to loose 3 out of 75 > shipped to us, and their > betta all around looked nicer. Have any of you guys > gotten bettas from > Segrest Farms? They are another supplier, and we > have gotten bettas from > them in eons, i think the last time I orded from > them (back when I was ft > there) was about 5 years ago. Or do you knw of > anywhere I could get a good > healthy betta from? > Obviously not all pet store bettas are unhealthy as > mine lived as long as he > did. Just curious on your guys take, and where you > get yours. I seen some > cool ones on ebay, not to sure about buying a fish > on ebay though. Any > ideas? > > ~Melissa > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1345 - > Release Date: 3/26/2008 > 6:50 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26906	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: bugs? ps

whatever it is, I'm having to scrape them off the glass and rock...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26907	From: „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Update on Platy

Well my mickey mouse platy tha was swimminh head up tail down is now back in the big tank with the other platies. He seems to be better in that he swims normal now. He is still hiding though ALL the time. He only comes out to eat and then sometimes for a short swim usually right around the bottom of the tank. Shy Platy maybe??? „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26908	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about newly planted tank

Thanks for the tip Steve, I'll see what I can do about getting something to anchor it to! Does that count for the narrowleaf as well as the broadleaf? -Lana On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:11 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > I am sorry, but I cannot answer your questions for lack of experience > with the plants you mention. However, I do wish to make a comment about > your Java fern. It should not be planted in the substrate. All you need > to do is to tie it, or anchor it in another manner, to a rock or some > driftwood. It will eventually anchor itself. I have forgotten the reason > why it will not do well as a rooted plant, but you should get a > spectacular plant once it starts growing, anchoring it to the driftwood > or a rock. > > \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26909	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Sorry for the overposts....

But I've identified the little buggers in my tank... so far none of the sites I've visited have had any useful information "this will get rid ofit it, but oh, it may kill your fish too" is not helpful (duh)... so I was hoping y'all might have had experience getting rid of something called a hydra this is somebody else's photo but it is EXACTLY what I've got ALL OVER my tank....urgh. http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg Help is greatly appreciated. Helen

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26910	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry for the overposts....

Pearl Gouramis eat hydra, don't they? I think I remember reading this when I used to have them... Carmen On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:13 AM, H. B. Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > > > > But I've identified the little buggers in my tank... so far none of the > sites I've visited have had any useful information "this will get rid > ofit it, but oh, it may kill your fish too" is not helpful (duh)... so > I was hoping y'all might have had experience getting rid of something > called a hydra > this is somebody else's photo but it is EXACTLY what I've got ALL OVER > my tank....urgh. > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26911	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry for the overposts....

Check out this study of the safest way. http://fins.actwin.com/fish/killietalk/month.9903/msg00219.html Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Carmen H To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sorry for the overposts.... Pearl Gouramis eat hydra, don't they? I think I remember reading this when I used to have them... Carmen On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:13 AM, H. B. Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > > > > > But I've identified the little buggers in my tank... so far none of the > sites I've visited have had any useful information "this will get rid > ofit it, but oh, it may kill your fish too" is not helpful (duh)... so > I was hoping y'all might have had experience getting rid of something > called a hydra > this is somebody else's photo but it is EXACTLY what I've got ALL OVER > my tank....urgh. > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 3/28/2008 10:58 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26912	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Parasite??

It's probably YahooGroups breaking the long link. You might have to type it in manually or copy/paste it in. Or you could click on what is showing as the link and then add the missing letters at the end. Or you could go to http://web.archive.org and type in the website URL, http://fishpalace.org/disease.html I just clicked on the unbroken link I originally gave you and it worked for me. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 7:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Parasite?? Lenny -- would you double check your URL -- I click on the link and get to another site all together (the "wayback" machine" trying to tell me that the website no longer exists... I'm going to do a search on the names in the link, but a couple of the links you've sent recently to the list have come up that way. And thanks to everyone else -- we're going to have another go at catching her when my husbnad gets home later -- navigating around a 100 gal. planted tank filled isn't easy! Even though she's one of the larger of my rainbow fish, they all start to look alike when they start darting around and hiding in the plants. We did catch one fish last night but even after examining her and figuring out it wasn't the one with the thing on her tail, they were all still in hiding. ~Helen --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Check out the pictures of various parasites on this site and see if any > match what you are seeing. > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di> sease. > html You might want to bookmark that page for future references. It's the > BEST site that I've ever seen on the net for fish health issues. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Parasite?? > > Hey all -- hoping somebody can help -- I just (today) noticed a thin hair > like "thing" attaced to the tail (appears to be just into the > flesh) of one of my rainbow fish... it's less than a quarter inch long, > about the width of a human hair and seems to be almost translucent... do I > have a bug? If so what is it and what do I need to get rid of it. Tank is a > hundred gallons w/ snails in residence, so I would prefer to isolate the > fish or treat w/ something that won't kill the snails. The "thing" doesn't > seem to match the description of anything I've found online and doesn't > appear to be causing the fish distress... but it would help if these guys > would to sit still for more than sixty seconds at a time! (I've got nine > rainbows, a rainbow shark and a betta currently in the sick tank recovering > from a damaged fin. He's about ready to go back home -- although I'm sure if > he could voice his opinion, he would have said he never wanted to leave the > big tank!) > > Thanks, > Helen > > I haven't tested the nitrate this week, but as of the last water change, my > nitrites and ammonia are 0, pH is right around 7, temp. is 78/80 and I > change the water once or twice a week (would rather haul fewer buckets more > frequently -- I do 5 or 6 2.5 gallon buckets ever three or four days.) It's > a fully planted tank; the last addition to the tank was about two weeks ago, > I added some trumpet snails. > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1347 - Release Date: 3/27/2008 7:15 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26913	From: chrisc0313	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: snails?

i have read on the internet how you can get snails in your tabk and i just keep getting them and getting them i thought i only had 1 but i got rid of it [in the toilet] and then a couple days later i had about three more iu have some cory cats and i think they will eat them but im so tired of these snails and i want them gone but they kkep come up with more. also so no one says this i did not squeeze the snail by accident when i took him out????????????????????????????????????im really confused

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26914	From: chrisc0313	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: how do you post pictures on here?

im new to this yahoo groups thing and i want ot post on here my pictures of my baby black mmollies.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26915	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry for the overposts....

I was just about to reply to your other post. I figured it was Hydra. They aren't harmful to your adult fish but they will go after small fry. What have you been feeding your fish? Did you ever see any pictures of what was hanging onto one of your fish? Anchor worm, camallanus worm, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sorry for the overposts.... But I've identified the little buggers in my tank... so far none of the sites I've visited have had any useful information "this will get rid ofit it, but oh, it may kill your fish too" is not helpful (duh)... so I was hoping y'all might have had experience getting rid of something called a hydra this is somebody else's photo but it is EXACTLY what I've got ALL OVER my tank....urgh. http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg> Help is greatly appreciated. Helen No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1347 - Release Date: 3/27/2008 7:15 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26916	From: chrisc0313	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Update on Platy

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, „¤*″*¤„H3ATH3R„¤*″*¤„ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: my platy did the samew thing although unfortunately it died a couple of days later. but im happy for your fish he is probably still getting better and wants to be by himself and away form the fish that are swimmimg fast and irritating him,ie so he is hiding. i would just give himn alittle more time a couple days and if he is still doing it i would put him back in the isolation tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26917	From: Angela	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Sorry for the overposts....

Is this a saltwater tank? If so it's probably not a hydra, but Aiptasia... Aiptasia comes in on live rock usually and is hard to get rid of, but it can be controlled. There's stuff called Joe's Juice that works really well. http://www.joesjuice.com/ This stuff does not hurt other fish or corals. Aiptasia is like a weed it will overrun other things in your tank and also can give nasty stings to make other corals recede or kill them off. -------Original Message------- From: H. B. Pattskyn Date: 03/28/08 10:13:54 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Sorry for the overposts.... But I've identified the little buggers in my tank... so far none of the sites I've visited have had any useful information "this will get rid ofit it, but oh, it may kill your fish too" is not helpful (duh)... so I was hoping y'all might have had experience getting rid of something called a hydra this is somebody else's photo but it is EXACTLY what I've got ALL OVER my tank....urgh. http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg Help is greatly appreciated. Helen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26918	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry for the overposts....

I'm still at a loss for the hanger on... I'm going to try catching her again today. There's no red spot or visible irritation where the thing is attached, and I can't tell if she's twitching her tail more than usual or if it's my imaginatin.... but I want to at least do a salt dip and see if that doesn't knock the thing off or if after I have her isolated, I can't pull it out (as recommended on a couple of sites, I just can't figure out how to do that on a flopping fish.) Also going to treat the tank w/Praziquantel/prazipro; I did some reading and it's not *supposed* to be damaging to the snails; it's supposed to have the added bonus of killing off any internal parasites we may have... yum. ;-) I don't expect the prazipro to touch the hydra (which grosses me out a whole lot less now that I know what they are... not sure I want it, but it at least doesn't give me psycho-sematic itchies ;-) I feed a mix of foods, including bloodworms and brine shrimp... will be feeding just flakes for a while, hoping that might stem the population growth at least. It was probably there for a while but just blossomed in the last couple of days (I fed my guys a nice brine shrimp treat a few days ago) and I'm a little hyper alert right now because of the hanger-on on the rainbow fish. I've got a line on a (cheap) bigger sick tank in case more drastic measures are called for... Thanks again, for everyone's help!!! GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I was just about to reply to your other post. I figured it was Hydra. They > aren't harmful to your adult fish but they will go after small fry. What > have you been feeding your fish? > > Did you ever see any pictures of what was hanging onto one of your fish? > Anchor worm, camallanus worm, etc.? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sorry for the overposts.... > > But I've identified the little buggers in my tank... so far none of the > sites I've visited have had any useful information "this will get rid ofit > it, but oh, it may kill your fish too" is not helpful (duh)... so I was > hoping y'all might have had experience getting rid of something called a > hydra this is somebody else's photo but it is EXACTLY what I've got ALL OVER > my tank....urgh. > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg> > > Help is greatly appreciated. > > Helen > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1347 - Release Date: 3/27/2008 > 7:15 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26919	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Sorry for the overposts....

It's freshwater... but those aiptasia sound like the saltwater equivilant and eventually I want to try saltwater.... I was labouring under the delusion that freshwater was easy (I swear I had a tank as a kid and never had any problems... maybe I just wasn't looking hard enough ;-) Glad I've learned a thing or two since then! I do love my fishies. ~Helen --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Angela" <asolomon1@...> wrote: > > Is this a saltwater tank? If so it's probably not a hydra, but Aiptasia... > Aiptasia comes in on live rock usually and is hard to get rid of, but it can > be controlled. There's stuff called Joe's Juice that works really well. > http://www.joesjuice.com/ This stuff does not hurt other fish or corals. > Aiptasia is like a weed it will overrun other things in your tank and also > can give nasty stings to make other corals recede or kill them off. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: H. B. Pattskyn > Date: 03/28/08 10:13:54 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SPAM] [AquaticLife] Sorry for the overposts.... > > But I've identified the little buggers in my tank... so far none of the > sites I've visited have had any useful information "this will get rid > ofit it, but oh, it may kill your fish too" is not helpful (duh)... so > I was hoping y'all might have had experience getting rid of something > called a hydra > this is somebody else's photo but it is EXACTLY what I've got ALL OVER > my tank....urgh. > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg > > Help is greatly appreciated. > > Helen > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26920	From: Paula Brown	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Feeding Cory Cats

I recently bought six cory cats (of two different varieties) for two different tanks. I have been feeding them algae wafers and shrimp pellets along with the fish flakes that the fish in the tanks fish eat. Just wondering if there is anything else I should be giving them? I put peas in my betta tanks, zuchini in for my pleco, but I am not sure what foods cory's enjoy. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26921	From: abarker3wvuedu	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Bamboo shrimp

I've seen some nice ones at PetCo around Pittsburgh... What about Elmer's? Have you tried there? It's a GREAT store! (in Monroeville) Amanda --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: > > Is there anyone in the Pittsburgh PA area that breeds or has bamboo > shrimp for sale? Also, if anyone wants to check out my pics go to > www.myspace.com/jennhonaker to see some. Some are pretty blurry, I'm > getting used to a new camera! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26922	From: Debra	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding Cory Cats

I am not sure what foods cory's enjoy. Hi Paula: My Cory's eat anything that hits the bottom of the tank aside from algae wafers they eat blood worms, beef heart, zuchinni etc. In my tanks when there are at least four or five they will lay eggs. If you have a well planted tank some fry will survive. Deb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26923	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Bamboo shrimp

Nice. Although you have to be a member to see them which I'm not sure many folks on here are. As for the bamboo shrimp, petco often has them. They're a little big for my taste but still cool. Kate Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: Is there anyone in the Pittsburgh PA area that breeds or has bamboo shrimp for sale? Also, if anyone wants to check out my pics go to www.myspace.com/jennhonaker to see some. Some are pretty blurry, I'm getting used to a new camera! --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26924	From: jenni	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Hi from newbie

:-) Hi my name is jenni & I'm living in sunny QLD Australia currently I've started up a cichlid community tank ...also have outdoor pond's with mollies platy's & swordies....I'm finding I've got the fish bug & proberly will need to get another tank !!!!!!!!!! cichlids are couple of peacock cichlid's one braziliensis, chocolate, red oscar, butterfly,2 angel's, blue ram & gold & one unknown have to get someone to ID it LOL 3 catfish & one black ghost knife fish OHHHHH and a psyhco convict in a small tank :-) & ten I've got my do 4 Belgian Shepherds one resce German Shepherd + plus some greyhounds LUCKLY I live on 40 acres Cheers Jenni & the gang

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26925	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium inhabitants

Well aren't you a wise guy, lol! I still haven't rememberd the name of those orange worms, the ones that spin a web. My brain fart continues. Oh ya, that reminds me: another worm found in the pet-feeding trade is the silkworm, but those buggers are usually quite large. Christa --- "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Christa said: "You can feed them... 3. ? > Brainfart..." > > I doubt your frogs would like my ex-wife very > much... and if she kissed > them, it would be more likely to kill them than turn > them into a prince. :-P > (Sorry.. couldn't resist! :P) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Christa Ciglan > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Paludarium inhabitants > > You can feed them worms... there are > > 1. mealworms > 2. butterworms > 3. ? Brainfart. they're orange coloured, but they're > usually pretty big, the > big ones are too big for the toads > > I understand earthworms are nutritious, but you need > to make certain the > earth isn't contaminated. Ditto with grasshoppers; > just catch and serve. > They love them! > > Don't overfeed worms, they're fattening and can be a > little tough to digest > (waxworms are very fattening). > I recommend that you do some research to make sure > they're getting the fibre > they need. The toads really only need to be fed once > a week (in my > experience); otherwise and they become obese. > > You will need to sprinkle the worms before you > serve; I just crush one of my > daily vitamin supplement pills, and add some crushed > calcium with D-3. I've > had my toads for several years now. Once again, > don't overdo with the > vitamins. > > Be forewarned, they're escape artists so make sure > the tank is secure. > > CC > --- Carmen H <eskielists@... > <mailto:eskielists%40reskie.com> > > wrote: > > > They are really cool but unfortunately, I have > already told my hubby I > > won't do crickets. He is seriously bug-phobic and > I even have to keep > > the friuitflies hidden, they gross him out so > much, but he tries to > > ignore them cuz he knows how beneficial they are > for the fishies. It > > really wouldn't be fair to him to introduce > crickets. Give and take > > sometimes sucks :-/ > > > > Carmen > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Christa Ciglan > <cciglan@... > > <mailto:cciglan%40yahoo.ca> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, the Oriental Fire-bellied Toad > > > http://www.amphibian.co.uk/bombina.html > > > <http://www.amphibian.co.uk/bombina.html> > > > > > > http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/caresheets/firebelliedtoad.html > <http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/caresheets/firebelliedtoad.html> > > > > > > > They have been known to live up to 16 years in > captivity! I posted > > > about them a little while ago. > > > You need to make sure they can get a foothold > from > > the > > > aquatic part to the land part. Barring that as a > problem, they are > > > very sturdy and don't drown like terrestrial > frogs do. Crickets are > > > more nutritious > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1345 - > Release Date: 3/26/2008 > 6:50 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry for the overposts....

I heard that on nights with a full moon, the hydra will crawl out of the tank and look for a warm body in a bed so don't be too alarmed when you wake up as HYDRA-LADY after the next full moon. Send us a self-pic when it happens to you since it's a rare event to get pictures of the transformation. Now, sleep tight tonight! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sorry for the overposts.... I'm still at a loss for the hanger on... I'm going to try catching her again today. There's no red spot or visible irritation where the thing is attached, and I can't tell if she's twitching her tail more than usual or if it's my imaginatin.... but I want to at least do a salt dip and see if that doesn't knock the thing off or if after I have her isolated, I can't pull it out (as recommended on a couple of sites, I just can't figure out how to do that on a flopping fish.) Also going to treat the tank w/Praziquantel/prazipro; I did some reading and it's not *supposed* to be damaging to the snails; it's supposed to have the added bonus of killing off any internal parasites we may have... yum. ;-) I don't expect the prazipro to touch the hydra (which grosses me out a whole lot less now that I know what they are... not sure I want it, but it at least doesn't give me psycho-sematic itchies ;-) I feed a mix of foods, including bloodworms and brine shrimp... will be feeding just flakes for a while, hoping that might stem the population growth at least. It was probably there for a while but just blossomed in the last couple of days (I fed my guys a nice brine shrimp treat a few days ago) and I'm a little hyper alert right now because of the hanger-on on the rainbow fish. I've got a line on a (cheap) bigger sick tank in case more drastic measures are called for... Thanks again, for everyone's help!!! GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I was just about to reply to your other post. I figured it was Hydra. They > aren't harmful to your adult fish but they will go after small fry. What > have you been feeding your fish? > > Did you ever see any pictures of what was hanging onto one of your fish? > Anchor worm, camallanus worm, etc.? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sorry for the overposts.... > > But I've identified the little buggers in my tank... so far none of the > sites I've visited have had any useful information "this will get rid ofit > it, but oh, it may kill your fish too" is not helpful (duh)... so I was > hoping y'all might have had experience getting rid of something called a > hydra this is somebody else's photo but it is EXACTLY what I've got ALL OVER > my tank....urgh. > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg> > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/hydra3.jpg> > > > Help is greatly appreciated. > > Helen > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1347 - Release Date: 3/27/2008 7:15 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26927	From: Rich	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: DP in a 5 gallon; tankmates?

Actually, shrimp often do well with dwarf puffers as tankmates. Though it's true they're sometimes dinner as well. They'll pick on any snail, even if it's way too big. They'll just torture it, or hurt themselves on the snail's "trapdoor". There are pure FW Gobies, but I don't have a big enough tank. Recommended size for 2 DPs is 6 gallons, so I'm short a gallon there. Otos are about as close to a 'sure deal' as there is as far as tankmates as far as I know, I just have heard many different things regarding whether my size tank would be appropriate. Rich > > Uuuummm, your puffer would love ghost shrimp....lol as a snack. > Puffers are hard to find tank mates for they eat everything, even > things bigger than them. I am just learning about DP's because my > friend got some. I am used to the brackish puffers, not FW ones. I > assume though that they are the same when it comes to eatting > habits. I have night goby's in with my puffers. Once again > brackish though. I think that if you give the DP's enough room they > will be fine with other DP's. Of course a 5 gallon is probably too > small for this. Puff's really like to have there space. They also > may fight over food. As for keeping the algea down in your tank I > would find big snails, not the feeder kind. I do not know anything > about snails, but I can not see a DP picking on one of those huge > kinds like an Apple Snail or whatever the fresh water big snail is. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Rich wrote: > > > > Hello list, > > > > I currently have a dwarf puffer in a 5 gallon hex tank. I'm > considering adding a couple Oto's for cleanup & interest, and > they're one of the very few tankmates that exhibit a high rate of > success with DP's. > > > > As is usual in the hobby, I'm finding wildly divergent opinions on > this. I have decided I wouldn't do one Oto as while they'll "make > do" alone they do much better with company. I know three would be > too many in the tank, not sure about two. > > > > I've read they're reasonably hardy once acclimated. I do weekly > 50% water changes since DP's are rather messy and the tank small. > > > > The other thing that concerns me is reading Otos are picky eaters > once they clean the tank of algae. My DP is already a picky eater > and dealing with another one isn't high on my list. The DP initially > ate frozen bloodworms until he got live snails and now he ignores > the bloodworms; I'm working to get him back to the bloodworms. > > > > Either way, I'm not going to add anything until I get this guy > eating something other than snails, then I'd consider adding > something else to the tank. Might just go with ghost shrimp (they'd > certainly scarf up excess bloodworm) as they're often left alone by > DPs. Oddly they're a bit hard to find locally though. Otos would be > my first choice if they're a good fit. > > > > Leaving things 'as is' is an option too. I know the tank isn't big > enough for 2 DPs and he seems content on his own. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rich

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26928	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding Cory Cats

Mongabay profiles usually recommend favorite foods for fish. Here's the profile on Corydoras.. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm This one page has the profiles for many Corydora species and there is a "Food" section under each profile. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding Cory Cats I recently bought six cory cats (of two different varieties) for two different tanks. I have been feeding them algae wafers and shrimp pellets along with the fish flakes that the fish in the tanks fish eat. Just wondering if there is anything else I should be giving them? I put peas in my betta tanks, zuchini in for my pleco, but I am not sure what foods cory's enjoy. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1347 - Release Date: 3/27/2008 7:15 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26929	From: Kim	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Need Help

I'm just getting started on my first 55 gallon aquarium and would like advice. I'm very much a novice at this and can use all the advice I can get. I was thinking something with lots of colorful fish. Thanks in advance Kim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26930	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Need Help

The best advice is to read a book. You've got to be at least a little familiar with the nitrogen cycle, what ph is and how it can fluctuate. You'll want a good filter that is rated for at least 55 gallons per hour. Filtration types are describes as mechanical, chemical, and biological. Mechanical removes visable particultates and commonly means passing water through some type of sponge. Chemical usually indicates the use of activated carbon and Biological uses bateria to aid in the breakdown of amonia and nitrate. Most types of cannister filters do all three or you can have an undergravel for biological and a hang on type filter for the other types. You'll need to cycle the water in the tank and get a test kit to ascertain the ph, hardness, etc. Once you have those figures you can begin matching fish species with what your tank water will sustain. I live in northern indiana and the water hear is like liquid stone -some fish, like Discus, require soft water and would likely live a short stressful life in that water I have. You can fudge your water to fit a fishes needs this but it's expensive and require extra hardware and chemicals. On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Kim <lonelyheart_in_northcarolina@...> wrote: > > > > > I'm just getting started on my first 55 gallon aquarium and would like > advice. I'm very much a novice at this and can use all the advice I can > get. I was thinking something with lots of colorful fish. > > Thanks in advance > Kim > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26931	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Need Help

What is the pH of your tap water? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kim Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 7:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Help I'm just getting started on my first 55 gallon aquarium and would like advice. I'm very much a novice at this and can use all the advice I can get. I was thinking something with lots of colorful fish. Thanks in advance Kim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26932	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Need Help

A good thing that I recommend to newbies is to take one or both of the free online tutorials on the basics of fish keeping. If you go to my blog, click on the link to "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and at the top of that page are the links to the two tutorials. They will walk you through all of the basics. Since you don't have fish yet... at least you imply you don't, you should "Fishless Cycle" your new tank to make it safe and ready for fish. You'll find the instructions for fishless cycling on my A to Z page also. It will take 2-6 weeks to fishless cycle depending on several factors and while it is cycling, you can work up a safe stocking list of fish and find local sellers and start looking at the various fish that you like and you will be able to add them all at the end of the fishless cycling process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kim Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 6:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Help I'm just getting started on my first 55 gallon aquarium and would like advice. I'm very much a novice at this and can use all the advice I can get. I was thinking something with lots of colorful fish. Thanks in advance Kim No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1347 - Release Date: 3/27/2008 7:15 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26933	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Need Help

Hie thee off to Amazon and get thee a copy of the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1. Then read the first section. Any questions come here to ask. Then, Lenny can provide the link, do a fishless cycle in your tank, so that the nitrogen cycle can be operative prior to adding fish. Any questions you can ask here. During this phase you will get fairly proficient doing water tests. I suggest the Aqua-Tru kits by Kordon for several reasons. You can also read the section in the Aquarium Atlas on live plants to decide if you would like to have live plants in your tank. You can even plant while you are doing the fishless cycle, should you decide to go this way. Again, you can ask any questions here. Once you are done with the plants, you can start drooling over the fish pictured and described in the book. Let me caution you, though. You'll not see a lot of these fish in your local fish store. You'll need to look around in your area to see what is readily available and relatively inexpensive. Once you get some experience under your belt, you can start looking at the other fish, and the possibility of getting those fish. The descriptions that go along with the photos will give you an idea of whether the fish will be compatible with others. Also, take anything said about a good beginner fish with a grain of salt. A story from my experience. I was interested in keeping killies, a group of fish you will rarely, if ever see in the store. I had successfully kept and bred many fish from the easy t the hard. Everyone says that gardneri (known as _Fundulopanchax gardneri gardneri_) are a good beginner fish for the novice killie keeper, in fact the American Killifish Association gave them to new members to get a good start with killies, they were supposed to be so easy. So I say OK, I'll try some. Well, I could keep them alive, but they never did very well for me, and I never did breed them. However, other killies I kept, I never really had a problem with, but give me a pair of gardneri, and they would frustrate me to no end. Go figure. Anyhow, when you start deciding what fish you would like, ask here for people's experience with keeping those fish together. One thing many people are surprised to find out is that he fish simply do not read the same texts we do. Once you have bought your first fish, you'll need a quarantine tank. This will be used to keep fish in for at least two weeks to ensure they are healthy before adding them to your main tank. You do not want any new fish to bring in a disease or parasites that will run through your main tank. Should a fish become sick in your main tank, you can move it, or them, to the quarantine tank for treatment. A spare 10 gallon tank will suffice. A sponge filter hidden away in your main tank will give you instant biological filtration for the quarantine tank. Yes, there is a lot to learn. However, being prepared is half the battle. There are members on this list who were keeping fish before anything was known about the nitrogen cycle, before outside filters were invented, before the effect of light on aquatic plants was understood, before silicone sealant was used, etc. You have ready access to this accumulated knowledge in the literature and on this list. Just ask. Remember, the only stupid question is the one you do not ask. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kim Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 7:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Help I'm just getting started on my first 55 gallon aquarium and would like advice. I'm very much a novice at this and can use all the advice I can get. I was thinking something with lots of colorful fish. Thanks in advance Kim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26934	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: more bugs...

Look up hydra. From your description it sounds like them. Certain gouramis are said to eat them. Don't know for sure, but hat is one thing to look at for control purposes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] more bugs... Maybe it's me... but it looks like a mini-infestation of little white "dandilion tufts" all over the bottom of the tank. They're not as tufty, but have four long "hairs" growing out of the main body of (a long human hair looking thing... I'm going to vacuum now, but I have the feeling I'm going to need to do more than that... suggestions...?? Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26935	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/28/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about newly planted tank

Any Java fern should be treated in this manner. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about newly planted tank Thanks for the tip Steve, I'll see what I can do about getting something to anchor it to! Does that count for the narrowleaf as well as the broadleaf? -Lana On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:11 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > I am sorry, but I cannot answer your questions for lack of experience > with the plants you mention. However, I do wish to make a comment about > your Java fern. It should not be planted in the substrate. All you need > to do is to tie it, or anchor it in another manner, to a rock or some > driftwood. It will eventually anchor itself. I have forgotten the reason > why it will not do well as a rooted plant, but you should get a > spectacular plant once it starts growing, anchoring it to the driftwood > or a rock. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26936	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: New member intro

Hello Ray and every one. I would have wrote a longer intro yesterday, but i ran short on time. As I briefly said, I live in Victoria, Australia. I have been a fish keeper for the last 4 years (roughly). Mostly keeping male Bettas My first VT male called 'Alexander' was a metallic turquoise. His life unfortunately came to a quick stop at 6 months of age, when i accidentally over heated his water (Ooops!) My second boy 'William was a Cambodian VT male. he lasted twelve months. My third male was a betta imbellis called 'Dru' Lasted just over twelve months before he committed suicide.... I'm now up to my forth male 'Hugo' Who is a white VT male with reddish/brown spots. A little like a Dalmatian actually As of tomorrow (Sunday) he'll be twelve months old. I also have a female Crown tail betta 'Pearl' who shares her home with 4 leopard danios. So. I have two tanks that sit side by side on a shelf in my bedroom. Pearl and the danio's home is a twelve inch Carribian island set up that i'm about to convert to a Greek temple. And Hugo's slightly smaller home is an Asian garden. I'll get some photos up in mmy album as soon as the moderator approves them There will also be some photos that were taken at the Melbourne aquarium. "We dance for laughter, we dance for tears, we dance for madness, we dance for fears, we dance for hopes, we dance for screams. We are the dancers, we create the dreams." "Why do I dance?.....Why do I breathe?" -Anonymous- --------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26937	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hi from newbie

Hi Jenni (& gang), Welcome to the Group; glad to have you with us. Quite (most?) often when the fish bug bites, it bites hard -- and very easily so, since they're fascinating. I guess your pond season is soon coming to a close. I may not need to remind you that you should use mostly pond water in your aquariums when you bring your fish indoors (and then slowly change them over to your tap water), but thought I'd throw this in anyway to nip any related problems in the bud. MTS (multi tank syndrome) is one most of us are afflicted with. Can't be helped in most cases since they're always "needed" <g>. Looks like you have quite a varied assortment of Cichlids, which I presume you're keeping in appropriate tanks (according to type, size and temperament). With 5 dogs, that ought to be enough to keep you busy. Enjoy your stay here; don't hesitate to post. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jenni" <ocean-magic@...> wrote: > > :-) Hi > my name is jenni & I'm living in sunny QLD Australia currently I've > started up a cichlid community tank ...also have outdoor pond's with > mollies platy's & swordies....I'm finding I've got the fish bug & > proberly will need to get another tank !!!!!!!!!! cichlids are couple > of peacock cichlid's one braziliensis, chocolate, red oscar, > butterfly,2 angel's, blue ram & gold & one unknown have to get someone > to ID it LOL 3 catfish & one black ghost knife fish OHHHHH and a psyhco > convict in a small tank :-) & ten I've got my do 4 Belgian Shepherds > one resce German Shepherd + plus some greyhounds LUCKLY I live on > 40 acres > Cheers > Jenni & the gang >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26938	From: reading1113	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Hello everyone, I just joined today

Hi! I am excited to have found this group. I have one 10 gal with 2 neons, 2 blood fins, and one platy. I have a 15 gal with 2 Albino Clawed frogs, and I have a 20 gal, and a 20 gal long that I just got, that is not set up or cycled. I am pretty new at this, so as I go along, I am sure I will have plenty of questions!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26939	From: Amy	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character

Ok all I have an 72g tank that has a Red Lionfish in it. He is pretty good sized now, about 4 or 5 inches long. He is also pretty good temperment. He does not bug teh Blenny at all, nor did he pay any attention to teh eel. Also I have 4 Damsels (left), that he keeps eatting...lol. A Blenny who is about 2 inches and an anemone. I used to have an eel in this group, but he did not survive the big move we did. So I have waited a month to make sure that the other fish were happy again, and now I am looking to replace the eel. I do not want another eel. Well I do, but I got lucky with the last one and do not want to go through all the hassels again with the escape artist. I may not be so lucky the next time around. My question then would be for suggestions of a new fish for this group. There are two that I have been fawning over at the fish store. One is a Spiney Box Puffer, and teh second is a Big Eyed Squirell Fish. Anyone own these and no how well their temperment is? Do you have any other suggestions that might make that tank more interesting to watch? I do not like Tangs, so they are out.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26940	From: Erik	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Just Joined, a Question About my Blood Parrot Cichlid

This group was just recommend to me, first post. Hi all. I am having a problem with a blood parrot cichlid I own. I bought it about 3 weeks ago, he started to develop dark brown discoloration. Mostly vertical spotty lines on his body, and a little of the same discolration on his fins. One splotch of the same color. My weekly maitenance (add salt, bacteria, water conditioner, change about 25% of the water, make sure filters are good) seemed to take care of it. It cleared up in about 3 days. Now the cichlid has it again but much worse as there's a lot more discoloration. My maintenance 3 days ago didn't take care of it, the discoloration has appaerd to break up a little but has spread. He's hiding all the time now too. My tank is 55 gallons with a lot of air being added by a 24" bubble wand and has good top flow. Not overcrowded either, other tropical fish with nothing in there that's aggressive. The polka dot botias and clown loaches do "suck" on him sometimes but the cichlid holds his own. This is probably my favorite fish and my wife is quite attached to him. Can someone help me with a diagnosis? I know blood parrots do change color sometimes but I'm a little worried. Thanks, Erik

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26941	From: Amy	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character

Reply to myself and another question. I have been reading up like crazy on Spiny Box Puffers. It seems they only get along with fast fish such as Tangs and Angels. So I would be afraid that he would try to fin nip the Lion, who of course has poisonus fins. This would be bad. So I am pretty sure of getting the Big Eyed Squirrelfish. My next question is that in all the readings about the Big Eyed Squirrelfish, it mentions that they like to be paired. I believe that I have room for 2, but would really like an oppinion from someone who has owned these guys. Plus am woondering how they would react with the anemone?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26942	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character

I know at our zoo we have 3 lions in a tank with a few porcupine puffers, some other species of puffer, and a few huge fish. If you want, I can ask my old bio profession what they have in the tank exactly (his other job besides teaching is in the aquarium at the toledo zoo). ~Melissa --- Amy <amy_howell@...> wrote: > Reply to myself and another question. > > I have been reading up like crazy on Spiny Box > Puffers. It seems they > only get along with fast fish such as Tangs and > Angels. So I would be > afraid that he would try to fin nip the Lion, who of > course has > poisonus fins. This would be bad. So I am pretty > sure of getting the > Big Eyed Squirrelfish. My next question is that in > all the readings > about the Big Eyed Squirrelfish, it mentions that > they like to be > paired. I believe that I have room for 2, but would > really like an > oppinion from someone who has owned these guys. > Plus am woondering how > they would react with the anemone? > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for Yahoo! users and friends. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26943	From: Erik	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: Just Joined, a Question About my Blood Parrot Cichlid

I have photos of the cichlid up here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2194344#2194344 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <saber1313@...> wrote: > > This group was just recommend to me, first post. Hi all. > > I am having a problem with a blood parrot cichlid I own. I bought it > about 3 weeks ago, he started to develop dark brown discoloration. > Mostly vertical spotty lines on his body, and a little of the same > discolration on his fins. One splotch of the same color. My weekly > maitenance (add salt, bacteria, water conditioner, change about 25% > of the water, make sure filters are good) seemed to take care of it. > It cleared up in about 3 days. > > Now the cichlid has it again but much worse as there's a lot more > discoloration. My maintenance 3 days ago didn't take care of it, the > discoloration has appaerd to break up a little but has spread. He's > hiding all the time now too. My tank is 55 gallons with a lot of air > being added by a 24" bubble wand and has good top flow. Not > overcrowded either, other tropical fish with nothing in there that's > aggressive. The polka dot botias and clown loaches do "suck" on him > sometimes but the cichlid holds his own. > > This is probably my favorite fish and my wife is quite attached to > him. Can someone help me with a diagnosis? I know blood parrots do > change color sometimes but I'm a little worried. > > Thanks, > Erik >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26944	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: Just Joined, a Question About my Blood Parrot Cichlid

Hi Erik, What do you mean by the loaches "suck" on him (the blood parrot cichlid)? If they are actually sucking on him, that means they are not being fed enough and he is going to get extremely stressed out by them attaching to him. This level of stress is going to make his immune system falter to the point that he is going to succumb to other things that he might otherwise be able to have a resistance to. In case you don't already know, blood parrot cichlids are a man made hybrid and many enthusiasts frown upon their continue exposure into the hobby. http://cichlidresearch.com/parrot.html http://geocities.com/parrotcichlid/main.html http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html (if link breaks, go to http://web.archive.org and search for http://www.fishpalace.org/disease.html and you will find the archived copy of this very good disease diagnosis and treatment site with lots of pictures. I do not recognize what you are describing but maybe if you read over some of the descriptions and look at the pictures of common fish diseases, you'll find exactly what you have. Your clown loach should be in groups of three or more and they get much too large (up to 16") for a 55G. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia-macracanthus What kind of "bacteria" are you adding with your weekly PWC's (25% partial water changes)? This is usually something some ignorant stores will sell you that simply is not needed and usually doesn't work anyhow. There is only one bacteria-in-a-bottle that I know of that actually works and that is Bio-Spira which is used to instantly cycle a new tank prior to adding fish. It is patented and must be kept refrigerated until used which keeps the live bacteria in hibernation. All of the other off-the-shelf products out there do not have any live bacteria in them... how could they? The bacteria need a constant source of ammonia to live and any ammonia level over 5ppm will have a detrimental effect on the colony so even if they did start out with live bacteria in the bottle of 5ppm ammonia, they would "eat" the ammonia in short order and then die off. I would discontinue adding this product, get a refund from the store and instead get a master test kit so you can test your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and hardness levels. Same with your water conditioner... if it supposedly adds slime-this or stress-that to your water, after you finish using it, just get a simple and plain dechlor product that also treats for any heavy metals from your source water. I use API's tap water conditioner or Top-Fin Tap Water Dechlorinator, which both only do what they are supposed to do without adding a lot of other unnecessary chemicals to a tank. You also do not need to add salt weekly as a general rule, although it may be helping with the sick fish right now but you will not be able to add enough salt to your community tank to do the best possible job since loaches are not as tolerant of salt. It would be better to quarantine the sick fish and treat it separately especially if the loaches are sucking on it or attempting to suck on it. This added stress will only make it take longer for it's own immune system to kick in. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Erik Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 4:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just Joined, a Question About my Blood Parrot Cichlid This group was just recommend to me, first post. Hi all. I am having a problem with a blood parrot cichlid I own. I bought it about 3 weeks ago, he started to develop dark brown discoloration. Mostly vertical spotty lines on his body, and a little of the same discolration on his fins. One splotch of the same color. My weekly maitenance (add salt, bacteria, water conditioner, change about 25% of the water, make sure filters are good) seemed to take care of it. It cleared up in about 3 days. Now the cichlid has it again but much worse as there's a lot more discoloration. My maintenance 3 days ago didn't take care of it, the discoloration has appaerd to break up a little but has spread. He's hiding all the time now too. My tank is 55 gallons with a lot of air being added by a 24" bubble wand and has good top flow. Not overcrowded either, other tropical fish with nothing in there that's aggressive. The polka dot botias and clown loaches do "suck" on him sometimes but the cichlid holds his own. This is probably my favorite fish and my wife is quite attached to him. Can someone help me with a diagnosis? I know blood parrots do change color sometimes but I'm a little worried. Thanks, Erik No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 3/28/2008 10:58 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26945	From: Amy	Date: 3/29/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character

Yah go ahead and ask if you get the chance, but it sounds liek teh tank is huge. I assume with the proper amounts of space they would all just get along. I just worry that the big puffer would nip at a fin of the lion and then of course get poisoned. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Walker <playnwifsnot@...> wrote: > > I know at our zoo we have 3 lions in a tank with a few > porcupine puffers, some other species of puffer, and a > few huge fish. If you want, I can ask my old bio > profession what they have in the tank exactly (his > other job besides teaching is in the aquarium at the > toledo zoo). > > ~Melissa > > --- Amy <amy_howell@...> wrote: > > > Reply to myself and another question. > > > > I have been reading up like crazy on Spiny Box > > Puffers. It seems they > > only get along with fast fish such as Tangs and > > Angels. So I would be > > afraid that he would try to fin nip the Lion, who of > > course has > > poisonus fins. This would be bad. So I am pretty > > sure of getting the > > Big Eyed Squirrelfish. My next question is that in > > all the readings > > about the Big Eyed Squirrelfish, it mentions that > > they like to be > > paired. I believe that I have room for 2, but would > > really like an > > oppinion from someone who has owned these guys. > > Plus am woondering how > > they would react with the anemone? > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for Yahoo! users and friends. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26946	From: Erik	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Re: Just Joined, a Question About my Blood Parrot Cichlid

Lenny thanks for the in-depth answer and the links. The loaches actually don't bother the cichlid that much, they take an occasional nip at them. The botias will suck up the side of the cichlid like they do on everything else. Not all the time but it does happen. I changed 1/3 of the water this afternoon and the cichlid still has discoloration but he's a lot more mobile and isn't hiding any more. I'm going to check out those links you provided and reconsider what kind of products that I've been adding to the tank. Thanks, Erik --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Erik, > > What do you mean by the loaches "suck" on him (the blood parrot cichlid)? > If they are actually sucking on him, that means they are not being fed > enough and he is going to get extremely stressed out by them attaching to > him. This level of stress is going to make his immune system falter to the > point that he is going to succumb to other things that he might otherwise be > able to have a resistance to. In case you don't already know, blood parrot > cichlids are a man made hybrid and many enthusiasts frown upon their > continue exposure into the hobby. http://cichlidresearch.com/parrot.html > http://geocities.com/parrotcichlid/main.html > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di sease. > html (if link breaks, go to http://web.archive.org and search for > http://www.fishpalace.org/disease.html and you will find the archived copy > of this very good disease diagnosis and treatment site with lots of > pictures. I do not recognize what you are describing but maybe if you read > over some of the descriptions and look at the pictures of common fish > diseases, you'll find exactly what you have. > > Your clown loach should be in groups of three or more and they get much too > large (up to 16") for a 55G. > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia- macracanthus > > What kind of "bacteria" are you adding with your weekly PWC's (25% partial > water changes)? This is usually something some ignorant stores will sell > you that simply is not needed and usually doesn't work anyhow. There is > only one bacteria-in-a-bottle that I know of that actually works and that is > Bio-Spira which is used to instantly cycle a new tank prior to adding fish. > It is patented and must be kept refrigerated until used which keeps the live > bacteria in hibernation. All of the other off-the-shelf products out there > do not have any live bacteria in them... how could they? The bacteria need > a constant source of ammonia to live and any ammonia level over 5ppm will > have a detrimental effect on the colony so even if they did start out with > live bacteria in the bottle of 5ppm ammonia, they would "eat" the ammonia in > short order and then die off. > > I would discontinue adding this product, get a refund from the store and > instead get a master test kit so you can test your ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH and hardness levels. > > Same with your water conditioner... if it supposedly adds slime- this or > stress-that to your water, after you finish using it, just get a simple and > plain dechlor product that also treats for any heavy metals from your source > water. I use API's tap water conditioner or Top-Fin Tap Water > Dechlorinator, which both only do what they are supposed to do without > adding a lot of other unnecessary chemicals to a tank. > > You also do not need to add salt weekly as a general rule, although it may > be helping with the sick fish right now but you will not be able to add > enough salt to your community tank to do the best possible job since loaches > are not as tolerant of salt. It would be better to quarantine the sick fish > and treat it separately especially if the loaches are sucking on it or > attempting to suck on it. This added stress will only make it take longer > for it's own immune system to kick in. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Erik > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 4:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just Joined, a Question About my Blood Parrot Cichlid > > This group was just recommend to me, first post. Hi all. > > I am having a problem with a blood parrot cichlid I own. I bought it about 3 > weeks ago, he started to develop dark brown discoloration. > Mostly vertical spotty lines on his body, and a little of the same > discolration on his fins. One splotch of the same color. My weekly > maitenance (add salt, bacteria, water conditioner, change about 25% of the > water, make sure filters are good) seemed to take care of it. > It cleared up in about 3 days. > > Now the cichlid has it again but much worse as there's a lot more > discoloration. My maintenance 3 days ago didn't take care of it, the > discoloration has appaerd to break up a little but has spread. He's hiding > all the time now too. My tank is 55 gallons with a lot of air being added by > a 24" bubble wand and has good top flow. Not overcrowded either, other > tropical fish with nothing in there that's aggressive. The polka dot botias > and clown loaches do "suck" on him sometimes but the cichlid holds his own. > > This is probably my favorite fish and my wife is quite attached to him. Can > someone help me with a diagnosis? I know blood parrots do change color > sometimes but I'm a little worried. > > Thanks, > Erik > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 3/28/2008 > 10:58 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26947	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Sorry for the overposts....

Lenny -- you sure know how to put a new spin to "bed bugs" :) We finally netted the fish w/ the "clingon" -- I think it might have been a leech but my eyes aren't as young as they used to be, so it's hard to say... what it really is is dead and down the drain. A salt bath got it to detach and look might dead. Fish is none the worse for wear. We did treat the tank w/ the prazipro -- snails are fine, hydra untouched (didn't expect them to be affected, so no surprises there... will just have to wait until the moon is full to see if I turn into the hydra lady... ;-) ) A few of my crypts look a little worse for having the treatment in the tank, but not serverly. Going to start changing water tomorrow (day 4 of medication -- bottle says 3-5 days.) All in all things are settling back to normal (knock on wood.) Now if anybody has a cure for teenagers..... ~Helen and her fish

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26948	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character

I would not mix any kind of puffer with a loin, they a curious fish, love to check everything out with a little nip. And if they like it another nip or two hundred. I think they get bored in the aquarium. They can also release toxin in the water if stressed or killed. I have several clients with big eyed squirrel fish in reef settings. Both clients have one only,and was there before I started maintaining their aquariums. I don't like them in reef settings because they will eat small fish and shrimp. Fish only setting is better for this fish. One client reports his is 11 years old (I been doing his service since 2003), the other says his is 7. In a reef environment they stay down low and in back of the reef structure until feeding time. They come out at feeding time as fast and furious eaters, swimming very fast feeding until they get their fill. Then returning to their spot in the rock structure. I would think one or two would be fine with your lion fish. Have you thought of other options, like dwarf groupers, file fish, dwarf stingray,wrasse's ect? I hope this helps! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Amy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:45 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character Reply to myself and another question. I have been reading up like crazy on Spiny Box Puffers. It seems they only get along with fast fish such as Tangs and Angels. So I would be afraid that he would try to fin nip the Lion, who of course has poisonus fins. This would be bad. So I am pretty sure of getting the Big Eyed Squirrelfish. My next question is that in all the readings about the Big Eyed Squirrelfish, it mentions that they like to be paired. I believe that I have room for 2, but would really like an oppinion from someone who has owned these guys. Plus am woondering how they would react with the anemone? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 3/28/2008 10:58 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26949	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Youtube reef video of mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KojmpmZ-7jk If anyone would like to see one of the best reef tanks in the world. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sissy Sathre To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character I would not mix any kind of puffer with a loin, they a curious fish, love to check everything out with a little nip. And if they like it another nip or two hundred. I think they get bored in the aquarium. They can also release toxin in the water if stressed or killed. I have several clients with big eyed squirrel fish in reef settings. Both clients have one only,and was there before I started maintaining their aquariums. I don't like them in reef settings because they will eat small fish and shrimp. Fish only setting is better for this fish. One client reports his is 11 years old (I been doing his service since 2003), the other says his is 7. In a reef environment they stay down low and in back of the reef structure until feeding time. They come out at feeding time as fast and furious eaters, swimming very fast feeding until they get their fill. Then returning to their spot in the rock structure. I would think one or two would be fine with your lion fish. Have you thought of other options, like dwarf groupers, file fish, dwarf stingray,wrasse's ect? I hope this helps! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Amy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:45 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character Reply to myself and another question. I have been reading up like crazy on Spiny Box Puffers. It seems they only get along with fast fish such as Tangs and Angels. So I would be afraid that he would try to fin nip the Lion, who of course has poisonus fins. This would be bad. So I am pretty sure of getting the Big Eyed Squirrelfish. My next question is that in all the readings about the Big Eyed Squirrelfish, it mentions that they like to be paired. I believe that I have room for 2, but would really like an oppinion from someone who has owned these guys. Plus am woondering how they would react with the anemone? ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 3/28/2008 10:58 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: 3/29/2008 5:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26950	From: Amy	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character

Yes we have definetly settled on the squirrelfish. I will look at some wrasse also. Just wanting to make this tank an unusual center piece and of course I liek to interact with my fish. It is kind of hard finding a fish that will enjoy your company and be an unusual addition to your tank. I could just sit and stare at the lion for hours. The Blenny also, he is quite cute. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Sissy Sathre" <ssathre@...> wrote: > > I would not mix any kind of puffer with a loin, they a curious fish, love to check everything out with a little nip. And if they like it another nip or two hundred. I think they get bored in the aquarium. They can also release toxin in the water if stressed or killed. > I have several clients with big eyed squirrel fish in reef settings. Both clients have one only,and was there before I started maintaining their aquariums. I don't like them in reef settings because they will eat small fish and shrimp. Fish only setting is better for this fish. One client reports his is 11 years old (I been doing his service since 2003), the other says his is 7. > In a reef environment they stay down low and in back of the reef structure until feeding time. They come out at feeding time as fast and furious eaters, swimming very fast feeding until they get their fill. Then returning to their spot in the rock structure. I would think one or two would be fine with your lion fish. Have you thought of other options, like dwarf groupers, file fish, dwarf stingray,wrasse's ect? I hope this helps! > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysissy.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Amy > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:45 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character > > > Reply to myself and another question. > > I have been reading up like crazy on Spiny Box Puffers. It seems they > only get along with fast fish such as Tangs and Angels. So I would be > afraid that he would try to fin nip the Lion, who of course has > poisonus fins. This would be bad. So I am pretty sure of getting the > Big Eyed Squirrelfish. My next question is that in all the readings > about the Big Eyed Squirrelfish, it mentions that they like to be > paired. I believe that I have room for 2, but would really like an > oppinion from someone who has owned these guys. Plus am woondering how > they would react with the anemone? > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 3/28/2008 10:58 AM > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26951	From: Lisa	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Looking for Australian betta breeders

Hi everyone. If this subject somehow brings up a cross post for anyone, my apologies in advance. On another aqualist I am a member of, someone bought up the subject of looking for betta breeders in the UK. This prompted me to put forward a search of my own. Now. I am going overseas for 6 weeks in about a months time. But. When I come back. Granted my mum hasn't forgotten to feed my fish and clean their tanks, I may be in the market for a new fishy friend I am happy to send a money order to anywhere, provided the conditions that my betta travels in, is nothing short of exceptional, and is sent via priority post. Terms of payment for postage and handling also must be clear. Especially if it is being sent internationally. I would however prefer Australian breeders if possible. What I will be looking for. Is a crown tail male or a veil tail male. Any colour will be acceptable. But I like blues and greens. And butterfly if I can get one. I would also like to know what food the fry was raised on, and what sort of conditions they were kept in before shipping. Can anyone help? Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26952	From: pkvzookeeper	Date: 3/30/2008
Subject: Applying Background

I read in a previous post about using baby oil or vaseline to make a mylar background "one with the glass". My question is: when talking about mylar, are you talking about the plastic coated photo background that is purchased off of a roll? I tried the vaseline with one and is doesn't meld with the glass completely, it is hit or miss. I only put a thin layer of the vaseline. Any info would be great. Alanna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26953	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character

Long ago when I had a nano (12gallon tank with snails, crabs and shrimp, I love inverts!), I tried to talk my mm into letting me set up a larger tank, all I wanted was one fish, I wanted a lionfish. I did alot of searching, found out how much it was going to cost me just to set up (havent had a big saltwater tank since I was little and that was a 90 gallon). I then went to her and asked her if it was ok. She said no...I was bummer. Ha ha I showered her, I got reptiles instead! ~Melissa --- Amy <amy_howell@...> wrote: > Yes we have definetly settled on the squirrelfish. > I will look at > some wrasse also. Just wanting to make this tank an > unusual center > piece and of course I liek to interact with my fish. > It is kind of > hard finding a fish that will enjoy your company and > be an unusual > addition to your tank. I could just sit and stare > at the lion for > hours. The Blenny also, he is quite cute. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Sissy Sathre" > <ssathre@...> > wrote: > > > > I would not mix any kind of puffer with a loin, > they a curious > fish, love to check everything out with a little > nip. And if they > like it another nip or two hundred. I think they get > bored in the > aquarium. They can also release toxin in the water > if stressed or > killed. > > I have several clients with big eyed squirrel fish > in reef > settings. Both clients have one only,and was there > before I started > maintaining their aquariums. I don't like them in > reef settings > because they will eat small fish and shrimp. Fish > only setting is > better for this fish. One client reports his is 11 > years old (I been > doing his service since 2003), the other says his is > 7. > > In a reef environment they stay down low and in > back of the reef > structure until feeding time. They come out at > feeding time as fast > and furious eaters, swimming very fast feeding > until they get their > fill. Then returning to their spot in the rock > structure. I would > think one or two would be fine with your lion fish. > Have you thought > of other options, like dwarf groupers, file fish, > dwarf > stingray,wrasse's ect? I hope this helps! > > Sissy Sathre > > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > > www.aquariumsbysissy.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Amy > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:45 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish > Tank Needs Another > Fish For Character > > > > > > Reply to myself and another question. > > > > I have been reading up like crazy on Spiny Box > Puffers. It seems > they > > only get along with fast fish such as Tangs and > Angels. So I > would be > > afraid that he would try to fin nip the Lion, > who of course has > > poisonus fins. This would be bad. So I am pretty > sure of getting > the > > Big Eyed Squirrelfish. My next question is that > in all the > readings > > about the Big Eyed Squirrelfish, it mentions > that they like to be > > paired. I believe that I have room for 2, but > would really like > an > > oppinion from someone who has owned these guys. > Plus am > woondering how > > they would react with the anemone? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 > - Release Date: > 3/28/2008 10:58 AM > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26954	From: sheriartist57	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Cyprichromis leptosoma

I am fascinated with this fish,but cannot find a dealer to buy them from .The mail order companies I normally deal with do not carry this particular cichlid and the LFS hasn't heard of them,surprise.Has anyone kept these or know where I might find them? Thanks,Sheri Western NC

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26955	From: nice6669	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: 125 bust

i have 125gal tank it blew a seame at 230 in the am the only old water i could save was abot 20 gal so i hade to use all tap water in the new tank i added water tretment and stress coat u think the fish will be ok oskars and jack demshys

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26956	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: 125 bust

Well, they are both pretty hardy species and there's not much you can do at this point but hope for the best. Certainly, it's best not to have to do a 80-90% PWC, but you didn't have a choice in the matter. Be on the lookout for any problems like Ich, etc... presuming the water temps were different unless you were able to match the temps pretty closely. You should also be on the lookout for any possible aggression that may take place as they work on establishing their new territories. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nice6669 Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 125 bust i have 125gal tank it blew a seame at 230 in the am the only old water i could save was abot 20 gal so i hade to use all tap water in the new tank i added water tretment and stress coat u think the fish will be ok oskars and jack demshys No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1350 - Release Date: 3/30/2008 12:32 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26957	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: 125 bust

Try to use your gravel and filters from the old tank, and you'll have a bacteria bed then and only run a mini cycle if any. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: nice6669 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:03 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] 125 bust i have 125gal tank it blew a seame at 230 in the am the only old water i could save was abot 20 gal so i hade to use all tap water in the new tank i added water tretment and stress coat u think the fish will be ok oskars and jack demshys ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1352 - Release Date: 3/31/2008 10:13 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26958	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: Cyprichromis leptosoma

Hi Shari, I found a guy that has some. http://www.mainlycichlids.com/Fish_List.html -Mike I am fascinated with this fish,but cannot find a dealer to buy them from .The mail order companies I normally deal with do not carry this particular cichlid and the LFS hasn't heard of them,surprise.Has anyone kept these or know where I might find them? Thanks,Sheri Western NC -----Original Message----- From: sheriartist57 <sheriartist57@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:31 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Cyprichromis leptosoma I am fascinated with this fish,but cannot find a dealer to buy them from .The mail order companies I normally deal with do not carry this particular cichlid and the LFS hasn't heard of them,surprise.Has anyone kept these or know where I might find them? Thanks,Sheri Western NC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26959	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: Cyprichromis leptosoma

Cyps sometimes don’t ship well. There are a couple of firms in northeast to check: Reserve Stock Cichlids, Atlantis. There is always Blue Chip Aquatics in OH and Dave’s Rare Fish in TX. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sheriartist57 Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cyprichromis leptosoma I am fascinated with this fish,but cannot find a dealer to buy them from .The mail order companies I normally deal with do not carry this particular cichlid and the LFS hasn't heard of them,surprise.Has anyone kept these or know where I might find them? Thanks,Sheri Western NC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26960	From: Amy	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character

Hahahaaa, yah the lion's are cool. I want a black one now, but my tank is not big enough for 2. He is a character too. He lets me know when its dinner time, he comes to the corner where I feed him and just waits there watching me. Plus to watch him umbrella over live food then gobble it up is quite fun to. He refuses to eat unless it is live in the tank or he is getting one piece at a time from my finger tips. If it hits the bottom of the tank, he wont touch it. He is soo funny. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Walker <playnwifsnot@...> wrote: > > Long ago when I had a nano (12gallon tank with snails, > crabs and shrimp, I love inverts!), I tried to talk my > mm into letting me set up a larger tank, all I wanted > was one fish, I wanted a lionfish. I did alot of > searching, found out how much it was going to cost me > just to set up (havent had a big saltwater tank since > I was little and that was a 90 gallon). I then went to > her and asked her if it was ok. She said no...I was > bummer. Ha ha I showered her, I got reptiles instead! > > ~Melissa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26961	From: Frederic Ouellet	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Question - apple snails

Hello I have several tanks at home.......in my 50 gallon I have a five year old clown fish. In my 30 gallon I have wayyy too many apple snails. I know the clown just loves snails, I have a seperate tank where I basically raise them (the basic brown ones) for a treat for my clown. I was wondering, could apple snails ever survive with him? Does size matter? The snails I have are huge, and they would do well with the algae in my 50....... I usually sell fish to my LPS but they are not big about taking the snails.......and so I don't know what to do with them anymore! Cynthia [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26962	From: Lisa	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Free bloodworms!!

SCORE!!!! Just got back from my local aquarium. I was going to buy a bag of live blood worms for my bettas. There wasn't many left in the bags, and the water is kinda cloudy. So i got the lot for free! I was more then willing to pay for them, but he wouldn't take my cash. I just have to make sure to give them a good wash before i feed them to my bettas and danios. Woohoo!!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26963	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: Applying Background

I use 'Fixatif' -it's a lite weight glue in a spray can that's used to set pastel drawings, hold craft pater together etc. Spray the backround- not the tank. Make sure the glass is perfectly clean- no surface oils. I apply the backround and use clear tape on the sides. On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 2:11 AM, pkvzookeeper <keptbythecats@...> wrote: > > > > > I read in a previous post about using baby oil or vaseline to make a > mylar background "one with the glass". My question is: when talking > about mylar, are you talking about the plastic coated photo background > that is purchased off of a roll? I tried the vaseline with one and is > doesn't meld with the glass completely, it is hit or miss. I only put > a thin layer of the vaseline. Any info would be great. Alanna > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26964	From: Carmen H	Date: 3/31/2008
Subject: Re: Free bloodworms!!

LOL, funny what makes us happy... I love the spring..not only do we have longer, warmer days coming but because after the snow melts but before we open the pool, I can harvest thousands of fat juicy bloodworms from the pool cover. The thrive in all the leaf matter that fell in the fall. All my friends think I'm mad but all the fish LOVE it :-) I wish we could buy them around here but all I've ever found in the stores are skunky black (?tubifex?) worms... Carmen > > > SCORE!!!! Just got back from my local aquarium. I was going to buy a > bag of live blood worms for my bettas. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26965	From: Paula Brown	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Submersible Heaters

I recently purchased a new 25 watt submersible heater for my newest five-gallon Eclipse tank. I was going to lay it horizontally towards the bottom so that the plants would hide it like I have done in my other tanks. I was surprised to read in the instructions that it specifically had a photo of it laying horizontally with a big X and NO on top of the photo, meaning that it should not be laid horizontally. Has anybody noticed this before? I wonder what the big no-no is of laying a heater on its side (still attached to the back of the tank)? It makes it a bit of a pain to change the temperature at that angle, but definitely makes the tank look nicer. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26966	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: Submersible Heaters

The brand name would be helpful but it's likely to do with having a mechanical thermostat. There are many brands that do allow horizontal positioning so maybe you might want to bring that one back and look for one that can be laid horizontally. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Submersible Heaters I recently purchased a new 25 watt submersible heater for my newest five-gallon Eclipse tank. I was going to lay it horizontally towards the bottom so that the plants would hide it like I have done in my other tanks. I was surprised to read in the instructions that it specifically had a photo of it laying horizontally with a big X and NO on top of the photo, meaning that it should not be laid horizontally. Has anybody noticed this before? I wonder what the big no-no is of laying a heater on its side (still attached to the back of the tank)? It makes it a bit of a pain to change the temperature at that angle, but definitely makes the tank look nicer. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.2/1353 - Release Date: 3/31/2008 6:21 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26967	From: Blue fish	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4F ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4F Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4B Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26968	From: Zinfin	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: Latest news about marine biology

Has anyone gone to these links? I am always hesitant to click a link like that. Is it worthwhile? -----Original Message----- From: "Blue fish" <princely7@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: 4/1/2008 9:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Latest news about marine biology Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4F ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4F Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4B Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [truncated by sender]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26969	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character

OK I seen my old prof this afternoon and i asked him what exactly they have in that tank. He said 3 lions, 1 puffer, a bunch of tangs (which he suggested housing with your lion), a small shark and a sting ray. I think you or someone suggested wrasses in there, he said if you want to watch it get eaten, dont bother. He also suggested groupers, although large, he said they make good tank mates. ~Melissa --- Amy <amy_howell@...> wrote: > Yah go ahead and ask if you get the chance, but it > sounds liek teh > tank is huge. I assume with the proper amounts of > space they would > all just get along. I just worry that the big > puffer would nip at a > fin of the lion and then of course get poisoned. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Walker > <playnwifsnot@...> > wrote: > > > > I know at our zoo we have 3 lions in a tank with a > few > > porcupine puffers, some other species of puffer, > and a > > few huge fish. If you want, I can ask my old bio > > profession what they have in the tank exactly (his > > > other job besides teaching is in the aquarium at > the > > toledo zoo). > > > > ~Melissa > > > > --- Amy <amy_howell@...> wrote: > > > > > Reply to myself and another question. > > > > > > I have been reading up like crazy on Spiny Box > > > Puffers. It seems they > > > only get along with fast fish such as Tangs and > > > Angels. So I would be > > > afraid that he would try to fin nip the Lion, > who of > > > course has > > > poisonus fins. This would be bad. So I am > pretty > > > sure of getting the > > > Big Eyed Squirrelfish. My next question is that > in > > > all the readings > > > about the Big Eyed Squirrelfish, it mentions > that > > > they like to be > > > paired. I believe that I have room for 2, but > would > > > really like an > > > oppinion from someone who has owned these guys. > > > Plus am woondering how > > > they would react with the anemone? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access > now. Sweet deal > for Yahoo! users and friends. > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: Latest news about marine biology

I never did before because I don't keep marine species but I know my computer is locked down pretty well so I just clicked on it and I don't see any problems. None of my security programs alerted and the website loaded quickly. It's basically just a blog that compiles articles mostly about marine species from http://marineanimalnews.blogspot.com but there were some FW articles as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Zinfin Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Latest news about marine biology Has anyone gone to these links? I am always hesitant to click a link like that. Is it worthwhile? -----Original Message----- From: "Blue fish" <princely7@... <mailto:princely7%40yahoo.com> > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: 4/1/2008 9:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Latest news about marine biology Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4F <http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4F> ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> by: princely7@... <mailto:princely7%40yahoo.com> kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4F <http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4F> Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4B <http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4B> Report Abuse: abuse@... <mailto:abuse%40zookoda.com> Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.2/1353 - Release Date: 3/31/2008 6:21 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26971	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character

Melissa , tell your professor, I was refering to the Coris wrasse's or green bird wrasse. They are not small like the the striped wrasse Cleaner,. They are 6"-12"+ and extreamly fast swimming fish, and if they are treathen they dive into the sand or other substract. I have had no problems keeping Green bird wrasse, Red ,Green, and leopard Coris wrasse with lion fish. They are very pretty. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Melissa Walker To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character OK I seen my old prof this afternoon and i asked him what exactly they have in that tank. He said 3 lions, 1 puffer, a bunch of tangs (which he suggested housing with your lion), a small shark and a sting ray. I think you or someone suggested wrasses in there, he said if you want to watch it get eaten, dont bother. He also suggested groupers, although large, he said they make good tank mates. ~Melissa --- Amy <amy_howell@...> wrote: > Yah go ahead and ask if you get the chance, but it > sounds liek teh > tank is huge. I assume with the proper amounts of > space they would > all just get along. I just worry that the big > puffer would nip at a > fin of the lion and then of course get poisoned. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Walker > <playnwifsnot@...> > wrote: > > > > I know at our zoo we have 3 lions in a tank with a > few > > porcupine puffers, some other species of puffer, > and a > > few huge fish. If you want, I can ask my old bio > > profession what they have in the tank exactly (his > > > other job besides teaching is in the aquarium at > the > > toledo zoo). > > > > ~Melissa > > > > --- Amy <amy_howell@...> wrote: > > > > > Reply to myself and another question. > > > > > > I have been reading up like crazy on Spiny Box > > > Puffers. It seems they > > > only get along with fast fish such as Tangs and > > > Angels. So I would be > > > afraid that he would try to fin nip the Lion, > who of > > > course has > > > poisonus fins. This would be bad. So I am > pretty > > > sure of getting the > > > Big Eyed Squirrelfish. My next question is that > in > > > all the readings > > > about the Big Eyed Squirrelfish, it mentions > that > > > they like to be > > > paired. I believe that I have room for 2, but > would > > > really like an > > > oppinion from someone who has owned these guys. > > > Plus am woondering how > > > they would react with the anemone? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > ______________ > > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access > now. Sweet deal > for Yahoo! users and friends. > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com > > > > > __________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.3/1354 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 5:38 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26972	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: Latest news about marine biology

The link itself is innocuous. Whether it is of any interest to you, well, you will need to decide yourself. I have seen most of the stories listed elsewhere, online and offline, so this provided me with nothing this time. However, if I do not have the time, I'll let it pass. It is not that important to me. Seldom does it really have a good aquarium related story, but the stories are usually pretty good in their own way, many dealing with science. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Zinfin Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Latest news about marine biology Has anyone gone to these links? I am always hesitant to click a link like that. Is it worthwhile? -----Original Message----- From: "Blue fish" <princely7@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: 4/1/2008 9:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Latest news about marine biology Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4F ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4F Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C40455E5C4642425A445146445A515F4B Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [truncated by sender] ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26973	From: Lisa	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: New 50gal freshwater set up

Hi all. I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the help I can get. It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would be able to keep with them. Either that or some angels. So where do I start? I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with experience. First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? How do I get the right water conditions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26974	From: mbajorek02	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: New Member: Good sources of online info

Hello, I just joined I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on a couple of good sights about Marine Aquariums. I've had a freshwater tank for 3 years now, and I want to change over to Saltwater.(Dont worry, found a home for the freshwater creatures). Looking for advice and information on the best way to start up, and some of the more resilient animals. More interested in the Inverts than fish, but want both. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26975	From: Marty Derenge	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: Cyprichromis leptosoma

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sheriartist57" <sheriartist57@...> wrote: > > I am fascinated with this fish,but cannot find a dealer to buy them > from .The mail order companies I normally deal with do not carry this > particular cichlid and the LFS hasn't heard of them,surprise.Has > anyone kept these or know where I might find them? > Thanks,Sheri > Western NC > I recommend you check with this guy: www.dykemyster.com He's in North Carolina as well, and if he doesn't have them, he may be able to point you in the right direction to someone local that does. He has a solid reputation. You could also do a search on aquabid as well. As has already been said, Cyprochromis do not always ship well, so I would try to get them locally first. Marty

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26976	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: New Member: Good sources of online info

Try the "wet web media" great advice! www.wetwebmedia.com Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: mbajorek02 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member: Good sources of online info Hello, I just joined I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on a couple of good sights about Marine Aquariums. I've had a freshwater tank for 3 years now, and I want to change over to Saltwater.(Dont worry, found a home for the freshwater creatures). Looking for advice and information on the best way to start up, and some of the more resilient animals. More interested in the Inverts than fish, but want both. Thanks ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.3/1354 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 5:38 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26977	From: Amy	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character

Yah I don't like Tang's. All the one's I have ever encountered are skittish and hide alot. They would be good if you could watch them from all sides of the tank, but I would never see them in mine. I think groupers would get to big. I will find soemthing and then let you all know how it goes. Thanks for the advice. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Walker <playnwifsnot@...> wrote: > > OK I seen my old prof this afternoon and i asked him > what exactly they have in that tank. He said 3 lions, > 1 puffer, a bunch of tangs (which he suggested housing > with your lion), a small shark and a sting ray. I > think you or someone suggested wrasses in there, he > said if you want to watch it get eaten, dont bother. > He also suggested groupers, although large, he said > they make good tank mates. > > ~Melissa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/1/2008
Subject: Re: New 50gal freshwater set up

Hi Lisa, A good free place to start is to look at profiles for your proposed fish on http://fish.mongabay.com Each profile will have a paragraph called SC (Suggested Companions) which will give you a baseline of usually compatible fish to start off with. Remember though... the fish do not always read the same things we do so there will sometimes be problems. The Mongabay profiles also give you recommended tank size, feeding tips, water parameters, etc. Another good place to start is my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page on my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com That one page will cover most aspects of beginner fish keeping and there are links to two different free online tutorials that you can take at your leisure which will walk you through all of the basics. Pay special attention to fishless cycling your new tank and learn the basics of "the nitrogen cycle", called "Cycling" in the fish keeping world. It's the biggest mistake most newbies make by not fishless cycling their tank or trying to cycle with fish and not understanding the arduous process that the fish are going through. Since you have the tank, you could set it up and get the fishless cycling process going while you take the tutorials and read up more on the types of fish you might want. Make a list of what you like and look around at your locals stores to see what they have. It will take a couple of weeks to fishless cycle the tank and you will probably change your planned stocking several times during this time period. Don't fall for all the so-called-chemical fixes that the stores try to sell you. Get a decent master test kit now and do a baseline test on your tap water so you will know what you are starting with. I have a blog on doing the baseline testing. Post your before/after numbers here and we'll help you decipher them. Let us know which books you have. There are about 1,000 bad books for every good book out there... especially when it comes to setting up a new tank since much of what we've learned about the nitrogen cycle in fish keeping has happened in the past 10 or so years. I've got some books published by well known publishers that are plain JUNK. If you want to buy a magazine, get TFH - Tropical Fishkeeping Hobbyist rather than Aquarium Fish Magazine since AFM has some real junk information coming out of it where TFH is usually very reliable. I'm about to do a new blog comparing the two magazines just to show the disparity of information that is out there by popular publications. Your 50G tank will not be large enough for long term keeping of the Bala Shark since they grow to 16". Here is the profile on the Bala Shark and I've copy/pasted the SC section ... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Balantiocheilus_melanopterus.html Here is the profile on Angelfish... scroll down about halfway to the more common angelfish... http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm A 50G tank, depending on the dimensions, would be a good home for 1-3 angelfish and depending on how many angelfish you go with, you could have other fish also. Angelfish get pretty BIG (6" long x 9" high) and even though they are peaceful cichlids, they are cichlids and are not always angels so they need their space. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi all. I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the help I can get. It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would be able to keep with them. Either that or some angels. So where do I start? I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with experience. First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? How do I get the right water conditions? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.2/1353 - Release Date: 3/31/2008 6:21 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26979	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: 72 Gallon Lionfish Tank Needs Another Fish For Character

have you considered stone or scorpion fish? --- Amy <amy_howell@...> wrote: > Yah I don't like Tang's. All the one's I have ever > encountered are > skittish and hide alot. They would be good if you > could watch them > from all sides of the tank, but I would never see > them in mine. I > think groupers would get to big. I will find > soemthing and then let > you all know how it goes. Thanks for the advice. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Walker > <playnwifsnot@...> > wrote: > > > > OK I seen my old prof this afternoon and i asked > him > > what exactly they have in that tank. He said 3 > lions, > > 1 puffer, a bunch of tangs (which he suggested > housing > > with your lion), a small shark and a sting ray. I > > think you or someone suggested wrasses in there, > he > > said if you want to watch it get eaten, dont > bother. > > He also suggested groupers, although large, he > said > > they make good tank mates. > > > > ~Melissa > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26980	From: rsteph49	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Taam Rio Nano Protein Skimmer

Has anyone ever used the Rio Nano Protien Skimmer? If so, what are your thoughts about it (as compared to other skimmers), and is this a Filter & Protein Skimmer, or just a Protien Skimmer? I've got a 20 gallon tank, and have been having some issues as of late with chemical spikes; so I'm going to invest in a Protien skimmer. I don't have a ton of money right now, so I can't go top-of-the-line; but I do want to get something that is worth the money I'm spending on it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26981	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: New 50gal freshwater set up

Hi Lisa, a 50 gallon is a perfect size aquarium for a beginner. Much larger margin for mistakes than smaller tanks. I suggest going to : http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm You will find "Good" information there from very experienced aquariest. You'll find different ways of filtering your new aquarium from under ground filters, invented in the 1950's to supply oxygen to your bacteria bed-creating a biological balance, to the newest methods of we/dry filters, bio-wheels,other hang on filters, canister filters and denitrification filters. If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if you call Marineland and tell them you cant find it in your area, they will send it to you Free overnight shipping and all. It has a short shelf life and has to be keep cool,so many stores dont carry it. I am the Marineland service rep. in west-Tx. They have sent it to me to give out before for free ! Marineland is the manufacture of commercial lobster tanks, and MARS systems, the wall unites you see in Wal-marts and they manufacture aquariums and aquarium supplies including the Bio-wheel filters. You can of coarse cycle the fishless way,and speed the process of the nitrogen cycle. The best way in my opinion is to get a hand full of gravel from a healthy existing aquarium, or exchange bio-wheels from a existing filter. I do both and start my clients tanks out with hardy fish in 24 hours. I only add a few fish to feed the bacteria bed, then make sure no mini cycle is taking place, and then add a few more every couple weeks until is at capacity for the size the fish will grow. I hope this helps! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi all. I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the help I can get. It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would be able to keep with them. Either that or some angels. So where do I start? I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with experience. First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? How do I get the right water conditions? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.3/1354 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 5:38 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26982	From: rob_white18	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: cloudy water

please somebody help me i have a tropical fish tank housing mostly bristlenosed catfish few tetra so on the problem is my water has all of a sudden gone cloudy it also has a green twinge to it the fish are perfectly happy it just makes the tank look awful ive been trying to remedy the problem for months now ive tried aqua clear which worked then just made it worse now im on water changes weekly and after changing a massive 50% water which i know i should nt the problem got better for about 24 hours then within 72 hours it was back to the same cloudy mess i had to start with im contemplating starting a fresh please somebody help thanks oh by the way my tank holds 120 litres

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

If it's a green cloud, then it's usually an algae bloom. A white cloud is usually a bacterial bloom, oftentimes just the nitrifying bacteria blooming in response to a mini-cycle caused by over cleaning or changing the filter media. See my blog for my article on "Filter Cleaning & Maintenance" so you do not repeat this common mistake. Proper filter maintenance is much more critical on overstocked tanks and new set ups. DO NOT use chemical treatments as they will usually just make things worse... as you've seen. I did a quick Google on "Aqua Clear" and is this what you used? http://www.kwzone.com/products/links/science.htm (second product down on the left side?) That's not even for an algae bloom and none the less, you shouldn't be using that stuff (aka crap) or their Algae Clear (aka crap) in your tank either. Chemicals might clear things up temporarily but if you don't fix the root cause, then it's just going to turn your tank into a chemical waste dump suitable for listing on the EPA Superfund Site list. ;-) Usually algae blooms are caused by too many nutrients in the water (nitrogenous compounds, phosphates, etc.) and too much light. You can reduce the lighting period and do more frequent PWC's, gravel vacuuming and proper filter cleaning to reduce the nutrients in the water column. Tell us more about your tank. Size (never mind, I saw 120 L = 35G), fish and numbers of each, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness levels, your PWC (partial water change) schedule prior to this issue, etc. What kind of substrate? Are you vacuuming your substrate good with each PWC? Do you have any live plants? Any thing and every thing about your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rob_white18 Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water please somebody help me i have a tropical fish tank housing mostly bristlenosed catfish few tetra so on the problem is my water has all of a sudden gone cloudy it also has a green twinge to it the fish are perfectly happy it just makes the tank look awful ive been trying to remedy the problem for months now ive tried aqua clear which worked then just made it worse now im on water changes weekly and after changing a massive 50% water which i know i should nt the problem got better for about 24 hours then within 72 hours it was back to the same cloudy mess i had to start with im contemplating starting a fresh please somebody help thanks oh by the way my tank holds 120 litres No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 5:37 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26984	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

In my experience cloudy water is caused by a few things- particulates suspended in the water, an overabundance of bateria. The algae is caused by too much light and/or an excess of phosphates and nitrate. If your tank gets direct sunlight you should cover it or move it to a less direct light source. Phosphates acrue due to decaying biological junk like dead plants or too much food. Phosphate is also usually present in water so you should test for this element. Nitrates essentially is a result of fish pee and this is managed by water changes. You're doing water changes now so it may be too much light or leftover food. I would continue with the water changes and add a good gravel vacumming. I would consider buying either a diatom filter or a UV filter as well. I've used a diatom on a 55 and 66 gallon tank and 40 minutes of running and the water is crystal clear. I'm currently using a UV filter on a 75 gallon and within 3 days I've noticed a decrease in algae and the water does appear clearer. best of luck, Poul On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 5:26 PM, rob_white18 <rob_white18@...> wrote: > > > > > please somebody help me i have a tropical fish tank housing mostly > bristlenosed catfish few tetra so on the problem is my water has all > of a sudden gone cloudy it also has a green twinge to it the fish are > perfectly happy it just makes the tank look awful ive been trying to > remedy the problem for months now ive tried aqua clear which worked > then just made it worse now im on water changes weekly and after > changing a massive 50% water which i know i should nt the problem got > better for about 24 hours then within 72 hours it was back to the same > cloudy mess i had to start with im contemplating starting a fresh > please somebody help thanks oh by the way my tank holds 120 litres > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26985	From: tori purfit	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

SOUNDS OBVIOUS BUT HAVE YOU TRIED JUST ADDING ACTIVATED CARBON TO THE FILTER MEDIUM 50 / 50 RATIO AND FILTER =ING THRU THAT? MITE HELP...WORTH A BASH ANYWAY!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: rob_white18@...: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:26:51 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water please somebody help me i have a tropical fish tank housing mostlybristlenosed catfish few tetra so on the problem is my water has allof a sudden gone cloudy it also has a green twinge to it the fish areperfectly happy it just makes the tank look awful ive been trying toremedy the problem for months now ive tried aqua clear which workedthen just made it worse now im on water changes weekly and afterchanging a massive 50% water which i know i should nt the problem gotbetter for about 24 hours then within 72 hours it was back to the samecloudy mess i had to start with im contemplating starting a freshplease somebody help thanks oh by the way my tank holds 120 litres _________________________________________________________________ Win 100�s of Virgin Experience days with BigSnapSearch.com http://www.bigsnapsearch.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26986	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?

I have four male convicts. Four days ago, I noticed that one of them had white cottony stuff over his right and left eye, caudal area, pectoral fin, and tail, which I determined was a fungus. I realize that males can be aggressive with each other and cause minor wounds, so I was concerned there might be a wound in addition to the fungus. I didn't know if the fungus was contagious, so I treated the entire tank with Marcyn and Maroxy. The one guy is showing significant improvement. No sign of the problem in the others. I have a hospital tank set up, but I was concerned that the other three might acquire the fungus and possibly infection, so medicated the entire tank. Should I have put the convict with the obvious fungus in the hospital tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26987	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?

No, you are using the exact med's I would have used. I love Mardell's products. Just do the 5 day treatment and see if it does not clear up. Rearrange the tank by moving things around drastically, maybe this will ease the aggression of the others. Fill in any dug-out places that they may have dug in the gravel as well. The idea is to disorient them, basically changing their territory grounds. I hope this works, if not you may have to keep him in a different tank, or they may kill him. . Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Shirley Reichard To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 6:55 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious? I have four male convicts. Four days ago, I noticed that one of them had white cottony stuff over his right and left eye, caudal area, pectoral fin, and tail, which I determined was a fungus. I realize that males can be aggressive with each other and cause minor wounds, so I was concerned there might be a wound in addition to the fungus. I didn't know if the fungus was contagious, so I treated the entire tank with Marcyn and Maroxy. The one guy is showing significant improvement. No sign of the problem in the others. I have a hospital tank set up, but I was concerned that the other three might acquire the fungus and possibly infection, so medicated the entire tank. Should I have put the convict with the obvious fungus in the hospital tank? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 5:37 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26988	From: rsteph49	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Problems with Nitrates and pH.

I'm having a little trouble all of the sudden with balancing my tank... For the first 4-5 months everything ran smooth, now I'm getting a Nitrate spike, and my pH is running a little low. I've got a 20 gallon tank, with about 18 lbs of live rock, crushed argonite substrate, and a carbon filter designed for a 30 gallon tank. I don't have a Protein skimmer yet, I'm trying to find a decent one within my price range (~$50-$60). My tank currently has 1 common clownfish, 2 flame firefish, and 1 turbo snail. Ideally I'd like my tank to have the 3 fish it has now, 3 snails, 1-2 small crabs (blue legged hermits or something), and a skunk cleaner shrimp. Maybe a starfish if I can really get things working right - that would be the end of inhabitants. On March 23 I did a water test, here were my readings: Nitrates ppm (mg/L): 80 Nitrites ppm (mg/L): 0 Chlorine: 0 Alkalinity ppm (KH): 300 pH: 7.8 Ammonia ppm (mg/L): 0.5 Specific Gravity: 1.026 Temperature: 79 F I replaced my filter and did a major water change (about 40%). I tested my water tonight (4/2/08) and got the following readings: Nitrates ppm (mg/L): 60 Nitrites ppm (mg/L): 0 Chlorine: 0 Alkalinity ppm (KH): 240 pH: 7.8 Ammonia ppm (mg/L): 0.125 Specific Gravity: 1.025 Temperature: 79 F I've done water changes at least once, sometimes twice, a week; and larger water changes than I usually do. I can't seem to get my Nitrates to go down though, they hover between 50-80 for the last 3-4 weeks. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to fix my Nitrates problem and/or raise my pH a little? My Live rock is going really well, it's probably 50-60% covered with purple coraline algae. And I've never really had an algae problem, or any other issues. Would a protein skimmer help with my nitrates problem? Would it be worth trying to get some of the chemicals designed to lower Nitrate issues? Would adding more cleaning crew right now (i.e. snails and crabs) help or hurt my water problems? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. This is my first saltwater tank, and at 5 months in I'd say I'm still fairly new to things.... Thank in advance for any help you can offer.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26989	From: Lisa	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Seahorses

Hi all again. Sorry to be a pain, but I have another question. I have suddenly had an interest (On account on my dad's sudden interest due to s family outing to the Melbourne aquarium) in seahorses. Does any one on this list have them or had them? How easy are they to care for? And what is required? Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26990	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: Problems with Nitrates and pH.

From your ammonia reading, your tank is still cycling, and has not yet reached equilibrium. When you start getting 0 for your ammonia reading, then you can start to worry about your nitrate levels. One place to look for nitrates is in your tap water. Test it and see what the level is there. You should test it every so often, as the level can vary depending on the source of the water, the method of treatment, etc. A water change will not remove all nitrates, only a portion of those present above the level found in the water used for the change. You currently are measuring 80 ppm. If your water has 0 ppm and you do a 25% water change, you can expect the water to show a reduction of approximately 25%, or go down to about 60 ppm. I do find it a bit strange that you have an ammonia level and a nitrate level, but no nitrites in your water. It is possible, but not likely. Check the expiration dates on your reagents to ensure they have not expired. No expiration date? Change brands to get one that does give you expiration dates. Water chemistry is water chemistry. I say that because I am not a marine guy. I do understand from what I have read/heard, that once your live rock cycles, it will help maintain a low nitrate level. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rsteph49 Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 9:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Problems with Nitrates and pH. I'm having a little trouble all of the sudden with balancing my tank... For the first 4-5 months everything ran smooth, now I'm getting a Nitrate spike, and my pH is running a little low. I've got a 20 gallon tank, with about 18 lbs of live rock, crushed argonite substrate, and a carbon filter designed for a 30 gallon tank. I don't have a Protein skimmer yet, I'm trying to find a decent one within my price range (~$50-$60). My tank currently has 1 common clownfish, 2 flame firefish, and 1 turbo snail. Ideally I'd like my tank to have the 3 fish it has now, 3 snails, 1-2 small crabs (blue legged hermits or something), and a skunk cleaner shrimp. Maybe a starfish if I can really get things working right - that would be the end of inhabitants. On March 23 I did a water test, here were my readings: Nitrates ppm (mg/L): 80 Nitrites ppm (mg/L): 0 Chlorine: 0 Alkalinity ppm (KH): 300 pH: 7.8 Ammonia ppm (mg/L): 0.5 Specific Gravity: 1.026 Temperature: 79 F I replaced my filter and did a major water change (about 40%). I tested my water tonight (4/2/08) and got the following readings: Nitrates ppm (mg/L): 60 Nitrites ppm (mg/L): 0 Chlorine: 0 Alkalinity ppm (KH): 240 pH: 7.8 Ammonia ppm (mg/L): 0.125 Specific Gravity: 1.025 Temperature: 79 F I've done water changes at least once, sometimes twice, a week; and larger water changes than I usually do. I can't seem to get my Nitrates to go down though, they hover between 50-80 for the last 3-4 weeks. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to fix my Nitrates problem and/or raise my pH a little? My Live rock is going really well, it's probably 50-60% covered with purple coraline algae. And I've never really had an algae problem, or any other issues. Would a protein skimmer help with my nitrates problem? Would it be worth trying to get some of the chemicals designed to lower Nitrate issues? Would adding more cleaning crew right now (i.e. snails and crabs) help or hurt my water problems? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. This is my first saltwater tank, and at 5 months in I'd say I'm still fairly new to things.... Thank in advance for any help you can offer.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26991	From: rsteph49	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: Problems with Nitrates and pH.

I'm assuming the chemical levels in my water are negligable I can test them though. I don't actually use tap water; I have a 5 gallon bottle that I get filled at the pet store. The cost isn't that bad, especially for all the more I have to make changes... and for now at least I know that my mix is getting made up properly. I also use some RO water from my freshwater tank everyonce in a while - mixed in with some saltwater - when I need to lower my Salinity. I need to get my saltwater refilled though, so maybe once I do that I'll test it before I add any to my tank, see what it's reading. The ammonia level I'm not convinced on. I'm not actually using chemical tests right now, I have some test strip things that I'm using... mainly because I already had them so I want to use them up before I go buy new chemical testing supplies. The ammonia test strip can be a little hard to read though. It's somewhere between 0 and 0.125. It could be closer to 0. Hopefully my live rock will start getting my chemical levels in balance soon. I had heard from numerous people that live rock is one of the best ways to maintain a balance in your tank; that was a prime reason for me getting live rock (or at least the size rocks I got). I'm curious if a Protein Skimmer helps with Nitrates or not, I'm trying to do some research on those now, before I go out and get one. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > From your ammonia reading, your tank is still cycling, and has not yet > reached equilibrium. When you start getting 0 for your ammonia reading, > then you can start to worry about your nitrate levels. > > One place to look for nitrates is in your tap water. Test it and see > what the level is there. You should test it every so often, as the level > can vary depending on the source of the water, the method of treatment, > etc. > > A water change will not remove all nitrates, only a portion of those > present above the level found in the water used for the change. You > currently are measuring 80 ppm. If your water has 0 ppm and you do a 25% > water change, you can expect the water to show a reduction of > approximately 25%, or go down to about 60 ppm. > > I do find it a bit strange that you have an ammonia level and a nitrate > level, but no nitrites in your water. It is possible, but not likely. > Check the expiration dates on your reagents to ensure they have not > expired. No expiration date? Change brands to get one that does give you > expiration dates. > > Water chemistry is water chemistry. I say that because I am not a marine > guy. I do understand from what I have read/heard, that once your live > rock cycles, it will help maintain a low nitrate level. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26992	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: Seahorses

HI Lisa, You could say seahorses are my specialty. I have in the past breed and sold seahorses. If you buy Tank raised seahorses from a reputable breeder you can expect about 4 years (larger species) of enjoyment from them. Do not buy pairs unless you want to spend a ton of time caring for the fry. They are like any other marine fish, give them a good environment and they will thrive. This size tank is determined by the seahorse your going to keep and how many. Tank raised seahorses except live AND frozen foods. I have seahorse going on 4+ years. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Seahorses Hi all again. Sorry to be a pain, but I have another question. I have suddenly had an interest (On account on my dad's sudden interest due to s family outing to the Melbourne aquarium) in seahorses. Does any one on this list have them or had them? How easy are they to care for? And what is required? Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 5:37 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26993	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/2/2008
Subject: Re: Problems with Nitrates and pH.

Skimmers remove the protine or ammonia before the bacteria bed has a chance to eat it,so therfore less nitrates. DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: rsteph49 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 9:44 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Problems with Nitrates and pH. I'm assuming the chemical levels in my water are negligable I can test them though. I don't actually use tap water; I have a 5 gallon bottle that I get filled at the pet store. The cost isn't that bad, especially for all the more I have to make changes... and for now at least I know that my mix is getting made up properly. I also use some RO water from my freshwater tank everyonce in a while - mixed in with some saltwater - when I need to lower my Salinity. I need to get my saltwater refilled though, so maybe once I do that I'll test it before I add any to my tank, see what it's reading. The ammonia level I'm not convinced on. I'm not actually using chemical tests right now, I have some test strip things that I'm using... mainly because I already had them so I want to use them up before I go buy new chemical testing supplies. The ammonia test strip can be a little hard to read though. It's somewhere between 0 and 0.125. It could be closer to 0. Hopefully my live rock will start getting my chemical levels in balance soon. I had heard from numerous people that live rock is one of the best ways to maintain a balance in your tank; that was a prime reason for me getting live rock (or at least the size rocks I got). I'm curious if a Protein Skimmer helps with Nitrates or not, I'm trying to do some research on those now, before I go out and get one. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > From your ammonia reading, your tank is still cycling, and has not yet > reached equilibrium. When you start getting 0 for your ammonia reading, > then you can start to worry about your nitrate levels. > > One place to look for nitrates is in your tap water. Test it and see > what the level is there. You should test it every so often, as the level > can vary depending on the source of the water, the method of treatment, > etc. > > A water change will not remove all nitrates, only a portion of those > present above the level found in the water used for the change. You > currently are measuring 80 ppm. If your water has 0 ppm and you do a 25% > water change, you can expect the water to show a reduction of > approximately 25%, or go down to about 60 ppm. > > I do find it a bit strange that you have an ammonia level and a nitrate > level, but no nitrites in your water. It is possible, but not likely. > Check the expiration dates on your reagents to ensure they have not > expired. No expiration date? Change brands to get one that does give you > expiration dates. > > Water chemistry is water chemistry. I say that because I am not a marine > guy. I do understand from what I have read/heard, that once your live > rock cycles, it will help maintain a low nitrate level. > > \\Steve// ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 5:37 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26994	From: Russ Foley	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Just curious how many people are on this group are in the uk

Sometimes some of the things on these groups only really refer to other countries like certain items that are only on sale there and the fact that over here our weather is not as nice so there are different aspects to look at - I was wondering just how many people on here were in the UK with tropical fish tanks. I know there is not a major difference but there are some factors and also the fish will have gone through a different method of transport etc.... Just a thought RUss

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Just curious how many people are on this group are in the uk

If you check out the group's home page, http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/, scroll about 1/2 way down and you'll see the World Map with dots representing each members location. The UK looks pretty well covered in dots so you should be in good company here. I think it's member updated so click on the map and add yourself if you haven't already. I'm in the USA but I know over the years, based on forum posts, I've found some problems you UK fish keepers have with getting certain meds and also finding out what's in the stuff they do sell over there. Unless things have recently changed, the UK doesn't have a similar disclosure like the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) that is applicable to all consumer products over here. I know the MSDS helped me when showing folks that the Tetra Aqua Easy Balance stuff is NOT GOOD for fish and it's a shame that Tetra Aqua pushes that stuff on unknowing newbies. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russ Foley Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just curious how many people are on this group are in the uk Sometimes some of the things on these groups only really refer to other countries like certain items that are only on sale there and the fact that over here our weather is not as nice so there are different aspects to look at - I was wondering just how many people on here were in the UK with tropical fish tanks. I know there is not a major difference but there are some factors and also the fish will have gone through a different method of transport etc.... Just a thought RUss No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 4:14 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26996	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: New 50gal freshwater set up

Sissy, I heard a new batch has not been made in about two years and none is scheduled to be made at this time. I heard a rumor that Dr. Fosters and Smith might have an alternative but have not had a chance to check myself. -Mike If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if -----Original Message----- From: Sissy Sathre <ssathre@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:31 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi Lisa, a 50 gallon is a perfect size aquarium for a beginner. Much larger margin for mistakes than smaller tanks. I suggest going to : http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm You will find "Good" information there from very experienced aquariest. You'll find different ways of filtering your new aquarium from under ground filters, invented in the 1950's to supply oxygen to your bacteria bed-creating a biological balance, to the newest methods of we/dry filters, bio-wheels,other hang on filters, canister filters and denitrification filters. If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if you call Marineland and tell them you cant find it in your area, they will send it to you Free overnight shipping and all. It has a short shelf life and has to be keep cool,so many stores dont carry it. I am the Marineland service rep. in west-Tx. They have sent it to me to give out before for free ! Marineland is the manufacture of commercial lobster tanks, and MARS systems, the wall unites you see in Wal-marts and they manufacture aquariums and aquarium supplies including the Bio-wheel filters. You can of coarse cycle the fishless way,and speed the process of the nitrogen cycle. The best way in my opinion is to get a hand full of gravel from a healthy existing aquarium, or exchange bio-wheels from a existing filter. I do both and start my clients tanks out with hardy fish in 24 hours. I only add a few fish to feed the bacteria bed, then make sure no mini cycle is taking place, and then add a few more every couple weeks until is at capacity for the size the fish will grow. I hope this helps! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi all. I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the help I can get. It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would be able to keep with them. Either that or some angels. So where do I start? I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with experience. First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? How do I get the right water conditions? ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.3/1354 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 5:38 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26997	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Problems with Nitrates and pH.

It is my understanding that the test strips found in local shops are not terribly reliable methods of testing water. Get yourself a better test kit, as I have mentioned, one with expiration dates on the reagents are the best. I like the Aqua-Tru kits by Kordon, if you can find them, mainly because of the design of the vials as well as the fact they give you dated powdered reagents in premeasured packets. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rsteph49 Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Problems with Nitrates and pH. I'm assuming the chemical levels in my water are negligable I can test them though. I don't actually use tap water; I have a 5 gallon bottle that I get filled at the pet store. The cost isn't that bad, especially for all the more I have to make changes... and for now at least I know that my mix is getting made up properly. I also use some RO water from my freshwater tank everyonce in a while - mixed in with some saltwater - when I need to lower my Salinity. I need to get my saltwater refilled though, so maybe once I do that I'll test it before I add any to my tank, see what it's reading. The ammonia level I'm not convinced on. I'm not actually using chemical tests right now, I have some test strip things that I'm using... mainly because I already had them so I want to use them up before I go buy new chemical testing supplies. The ammonia test strip can be a little hard to read though. It's somewhere between 0 and 0.125. It could be closer to 0. Hopefully my live rock will start getting my chemical levels in balance soon. I had heard from numerous people that live rock is one of the best ways to maintain a balance in your tank; that was a prime reason for me getting live rock (or at least the size rocks I got). I'm curious if a Protein Skimmer helps with Nitrates or not, I'm trying to do some research on those now, before I go out and get one. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > From your ammonia reading, your tank is still cycling, and has not yet > reached equilibrium. When you start getting 0 for your ammonia reading, > then you can start to worry about your nitrate levels. > > One place to look for nitrates is in your tap water. Test it and see > what the level is there. You should test it every so often, as the level > can vary depending on the source of the water, the method of treatment, > etc. > > A water change will not remove all nitrates, only a portion of those > present above the level found in the water used for the change. You > currently are measuring 80 ppm. If your water has 0 ppm and you do a 25% > water change, you can expect the water to show a reduction of > approximately 25%, or go down to about 60 ppm. > > I do find it a bit strange that you have an ammonia level and a nitrate > level, but no nitrites in your water. It is possible, but not likely. > Check the expiration dates on your reagents to ensure they have not > expired. No expiration date? Change brands to get one that does give you > expiration dates. > > Water chemistry is water chemistry. I say that because I am not a marine > guy. I do understand from what I have read/heard, that once your live > rock cycles, it will help maintain a low nitrate level. > > \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26998	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: New 50gal freshwater set up

Mike, that is simply not true, they are shipping it out 3 days a week, I just spoke to them. They said that they was working on a new formula that was going to be in a bottle with a longer shelf life. I have read about the Fritz turbo start and i't sounds promising. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Sissy, I heard a new batch has not been made in about two years and none is scheduled to be made at this time. I heard a rumor that Dr. Fosters and Smith might have an alternative but have not had a chance to check myself. -Mike If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if -----Original Message----- From: Sissy Sathre <ssathre@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:31 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi Lisa, a 50 gallon is a perfect size aquarium for a beginner. Much larger margin for mistakes than smaller tanks. I suggest going to : http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm You will find "Good" information there from very experienced aquariest. You'll find different ways of filtering your new aquarium from under ground filters, invented in the 1950's to supply oxygen to your bacteria bed-creating a biological balance, to the newest methods of we/dry filters, bio-wheels,other hang on filters, canister filters and denitrification filters. If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if you call Marineland and tell them you cant find it in your area, they will send it to you Free overnight shipping and all. It has a short shelf life and has to be keep cool,so many stores dont carry it. I am the Marineland service rep. in west-Tx. They have sent it to me to give out before for free ! Marineland is the manufacture of commercial lobster tanks, and MARS systems, the wall unites you see in Wal-marts and they manufacture aquariums and aquarium supplies including the Bio-wheel filters. You can of coarse cycle the fishless way,and speed the process of the nitrogen cycle. The best way in my opinion is to get a hand full of gravel from a healthy existing aquarium, or exchange bio-wheels from a existing filter. I do both and start my clients tanks out with hardy fish in 24 hours. I only add a few fish to feed the bacteria bed, then make sure no mini cycle is taking place, and then add a few more every couple weeks until is at capacity for the size the fish will grow. I hope this helps! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi all. I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the help I can get. It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would be able to keep with them. Either that or some angels. So where do I start? I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with experience. First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? How do I get the right water conditions? ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.3/1354 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 5:38 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 5:37 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 26999	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up

Mike, I was shocked when I saw your post so I did some Googling and it looks like the rumor may be partially correct. http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com was carrying Bio-Spira up until recently but now it's no longer on their website either. When I looked at http://www.Marineland.com, there's no mention of Bio-Spira either. WTF!! Then I called Marineland's 800 number and found out some interesting stuff. For the past couple of years, Marineland has been working on a way to bottle Bio-Spira so it did not have to be refrigerated, since the refrigeration aspect was a big problem getting Bio-Spira into ALL pet stores and/or selling it easily online. According to the person I spoke to, there is still some of the "old" product available at some retailers and online sources but he could not give me any of the online sources because his computer was acting up. The new Marineland website still has the store locator function and he suggested looking for a retailer in the area and contacting them to see if any have or might have access to some of the remaining inventory of the old Bio-Spira. It will be interesting to see how they package it and their explanation as to why it doesn't have to be refrigerated since the big explanation for why Bio-Spira worked all along and why all of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products didn't work was because it was refrigerated and the bacteria were kept in hibernation. The room temperature stuff could not keep the bacteria alive if there ever was live bacteria in the room temp bottles in the first place. He also said that they just revamped their website and did not put Bio-Spira on it yet since the new product isn't available yet and they have shipped their final inventory of the old product. I told him they should put a press release or something on a link to Bio-Spira on their website so people will know, otherwise the internet rumor mill will have all kinds of misinformation out there in a matter of minutes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 4:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Sissy, I heard a new batch has not been made in about two years and none is scheduled to be made at this time. I heard a rumor that Dr. Fosters and Smith might have an alternative but have not had a chance to check myself. -Mike If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if -----Original Message----- From: Sissy Sathre <ssathre@... <mailto:ssathre%40suddenlink.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:31 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi Lisa, a 50 gallon is a perfect size aquarium for a beginner. Much larger margin for mistakes than smaller tanks. I suggest going to : http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm> You will find "Good" information there from very experienced aquariest. You'll find different ways of filtering your new aquarium from under ground filters, invented in the 1950's to supply oxygen to your bacteria bed-creating a biological balance, to the newest methods of we/dry filters, bio-wheels,other hang on filters, canister filters and denitrification filters. If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if you call Marineland and tell them you cant find it in your area, they will send it to you Free overnight shipping and all. It has a short shelf life and has to be keep cool,so many stores dont carry it. I am the Marineland service rep. in west-Tx. They have sent it to me to give out before for free ! Marineland is the manufacture of commercial lobster tanks, and MARS systems, the wall unites you see in Wal-marts and they manufacture aquariums and aquarium supplies including the Bio-wheel filters. You can of coarse cycle the fishless way,and speed the process of the nitrogen cycle. The best way in my opinion is to get a hand full of gravel from a healthy existing aquarium, or exchange bio-wheels from a existing filter. I do both and start my clients tanks out with hardy fish in 24 hours. I only add a few fish to feed the bacteria bed, then make sure no mini cycle is taking place, and then add a few more every couple weeks until is at capacity for the size the fish will grow. I hope this helps! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi all. I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the help I can get. It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would be able to keep with them. Either that or some angels. So where do I start? I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with experience. First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? How do I get the right water conditions? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 4:14 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27000	From: joe t	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Cloud Eye on Angels

Hi Ray, Steve, Lenny....... I've inherited some angel fish from a fellow resident in my community. Most of them are in pretty good health. A few of them, however, are getting/have what we used to call cloud eye. Believe it or not, in all my years raising Angels I never had this problem. Why these fish have it I don't know. Maybe poor water quality, fighting(?) When my angels are pairing off the usual fighting ritual may cause an eye problem, but I nip it in the bud by isolating the hurt fish in a quarantine tank, clean water and maybe some salt. Usually heals up in a short time. These poor guys have the eyes getting real bad and completely clouded over. It's so advanced they are not responding to any of my remedies and I hate to use chemicals without knowing what I am dealing with. Any suggestions? joe t --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27001	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Cloud Eye on Angels

Joe, Depending upon the severity of it, Eye Cloud can be a dangerous condition, varying in its difficulty to control depending upon which pathogens are the cause. Since you ask, yes poor water quality can (but not necessarily) be an indirect cause, depending on what latent pathogens are present in that particular water, with the more direct cause being damage due to pecking of the eyes from another Angelfish. Of course, poor water can also be a direct cause as it compromises the immune system (and may result in other health issues as well), but is not usually the major cause of this condition/disease which is most often brought on by breaching the protective mucous coating as tissue is scraped inviting the invasion of bacteria. Mild cases can often be cleared up in a matter of days with Acriflavin and salt, but the conditions which you indicate call for more active antibiotic/chemical medications. I've found Jungle Labs' Fungus Eliminator to be most effective towards this (don't let the name fool you -- the medication is equally effective against bacteria in many cases). This medication has both Nitrofurazone and Furadolizone, but in addition contains the all-important (for eye remedy) Potassium Dichromate, even though as the third ingredient its quantity of the medication is comparatively less. Similar medications (such as Furan II) does not contain this and even though that's an excellent med, its not as effective for eye problems. Let us know what you have been using. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, Steve, Lenny....... > > I've inherited some angel fish from a fellow resident in my community. Most of them are in pretty good health. A few of them, however, are getting/have what we used to call cloud eye. > > Believe it or not, in all my years raising Angels I never had this problem. Why these fish have it I don't know. Maybe poor water quality, fighting(?) > > When my angels are pairing off the usual fighting ritual may cause an eye problem, but I nip it in the bud by isolating the hurt fish in a quarantine tank, clean water and maybe some salt. Usually heals up in a short time. > > These poor guys have the eyes getting real bad and completely clouded over. It's so advanced they are not responding to any of my remedies and I hate to use chemicals without knowing what I am dealing with. Any suggestions? > > joe t > > > --------------------------------- > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27002	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?

Anybody out there? To summarize my original post, all I want to know is, is fungus contagious? If one of my cichlids has it, are the others susceptible? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > I have four male convicts. Four days ago, I noticed that one of them > had white cottony stuff over his right and left eye, caudal area, > pectoral fin, and tail, which I determined was a fungus. I realize > that males can be aggressive with each other and cause minor wounds, > so I was concerned there might be a wound in addition to the fungus. I > didn't know if the fungus was contagious, so I treated the entire tank > with Marcyn and Maroxy. The one guy is showing significant > improvement. No sign of the problem in the others. I have a hospital > tank set up, but I was concerned that the other three might acquire > the fungus and possibly infection, so medicated the entire tank. > Should I have put the convict with the obvious fungus in the hospital > tank? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Cloud Eye on Angels

I saw Steve already replied and I concur with him that many things can cause things like cloudy eye. For more info, go to this link http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee (the TinyURL for the long link to Pandora's Fish Disease page on the WayBack Archives) and scroll down to the section on Cloudy Eye for images. Following is the text copy/pasted from that section. Common Name - Cloudy Eye Pathogen/Cause - Various organisms (nonspecific), Severe Stress, Malnutrition, Cataracts, Old Age, Hyperproduction of slime due to poisoning, bad water quality, or irritation Physical Signs - A cloudy white or grey "haze" over the eyes that may cause blindness. Behavioral Signs - Associated with loss of vision, also just general signs of lethargy. Potential Treatment - Investigate if water quality is high first (water changes), then if nutritional needs of that species are being met. Wait at least a week or two before trying any antibiotics, it will often clear on its own if water quality is high. Other Notes - Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. Cloudy eye is a sign of a number of things, rather than a disease in its own right. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joe t Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:44 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloud Eye on Angels Hi Ray, Steve, Lenny....... I've inherited some angel fish from a fellow resident in my community. Most of them are in pretty good health. A few of them, however, are getting/have what we used to call cloud eye. Believe it or not, in all my years raising Angels I never had this problem. Why these fish have it I don't know. Maybe poor water quality, fighting(?) When my angels are pairing off the usual fighting ritual may cause an eye problem, but I nip it in the bud by isolating the hurt fish in a quarantine tank, clean water and maybe some salt. Usually heals up in a short time. These poor guys have the eyes getting real bad and completely clouded over. It's so advanced they are not responding to any of my remedies and I hate to use chemicals without knowing what I am dealing with. Any suggestions? joe t No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 4:14 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27004	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?

I thought somebody replied to you. Check the website and organize the messages by threads to see if there is a reply. Fungi are generally opportunistic pathogens and generally exist in almost all aquariums and natural waters. When our fish immune systems are weakened due to one or more reasons, the fungi is more likely to form on the fish.... and it's even more likely to form on/around a wound. Go to http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee which is the tinyURL for the long link to the archived webpage for Pandora's Fish Disease website. Click the link under the preview text and after the page fully loads (will take a moment due to all of the pictures), click on the Body Fungus link and it will bring you to pictures and more info. Right below the Body Fungus section is the Fin Fungus section. Since it's an external issue, treatment of the entire tank is the proper way to do it. It would have been easier on you and the sick fish to treat it in a H-tank. It generally will not form on other fish unless they are also injured or have weakened immune systems. Putting a sick fish in a Q-tank / H-tank is usually the best thing since a sick fish is more likely to be harassed by other fish which further weakens their immune system. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious? Anybody out there? To summarize my original post, all I want to know is, is fungus contagious? If one of my cichlids has it, are the others susceptible? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > I have four male convicts. Four days ago, I noticed that one of them > had white cottony stuff over his right and left eye, caudal area, > pectoral fin, and tail, which I determined was a fungus. I realize > that males can be aggressive with each other and cause minor wounds, > so I was concerned there might be a wound in addition to the fungus. I > didn't know if the fungus was contagious, so I treated the entire tank > with Marcyn and Maroxy. The one guy is showing significant > improvement. No sign of the problem in the others. I have a hospital > tank set up, but I was concerned that the other three might acquire > the fungus and possibly infection, so medicated the entire tank. > Should I have put the convict with the obvious fungus in the hospital > tank? > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 4:14 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27005	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/3/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?

Shirley, Don't know why, but I thought this question was answered, and regret that it hasn't been. To answer your question short and to the point -- No, Fungus is not contagious, in the sense that it is spread from fish to fish as flukes (for example) would be. Most often (but not always), Fungus is a secondary infection when invading an organism's wound only after it has already suffered a bacterial infection. In most other cases, when a wound is not part of the equation, its the direct result of stress on a fish due to inadequate, less-than- optimum conditions whereby these poor conditions allow ever-present Fungus to infect a weakened fish. Such a weakened, Fungused fish will add additional Fungi populations to the water column enabling another fish to contract it more easily, but then only if that fish is also so weakened/stressed; a healthy fish will not be infected by Fungus. The common factor here though is that often, the water parameters and/or other adverse condition condusive to Fungus infection is usually in place in these events, affecting (stressing) all other inhabitants common to that same water column. By this, it can be seen that it is not other fish (however infected or free from Fungus) infecting yet other fish with this pathogen, but the water and/or other adverse conditions themselves which has stressed the infected organism to to this point. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > Anybody out there? To summarize my original post, all I want to know > is, is fungus contagious? If one of my cichlids has it, are the others > susceptible? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@> > wrote: > > > > I have four male convicts. Four days ago, I noticed that one of them > > had white cottony stuff over his right and left eye, caudal area, > > pectoral fin, and tail, which I determined was a fungus. I realize > > that males can be aggressive with each other and cause minor wounds, > > so I was concerned there might be a wound in addition to the fungus. I > > didn't know if the fungus was contagious, so I treated the entire tank > > with Marcyn and Maroxy. The one guy is showing significant > > improvement. No sign of the problem in the others. I have a hospital > > tank set up, but I was concerned that the other three might acquire > > the fungus and possibly infection, so medicated the entire tank. > > Should I have put the convict with the obvious fungus in the hospital > > tank? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27006	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: WATCH OPRAH TODAY!

Today is the day that Lisa Ling will be on Oprah investigating "the hidden world of puppy mills! http://www2.oprah.com/tows/coming/tows_come_main.jhtml Now tell me, are you honestly thinking of NOT watching due to the horrendous sadness of it all? Well, I am pleading with you to watch! There is little doubt that, yes, in your seeing what is truly happening (versus hiding from the reality of it), you will cry. But did you know that crying brings healing and healing brings strength? It absolutely does! The saying that "what doesn't kill us makes us stronger" holds very true. We all need to become strong enough so that we can in turn help these poor creatures get out of such catastrophic harm's way. We cannot become strengthened as a universe if we continually avoid this reality. What is hidden in the back woods of rural America, the basements of too many homes, and on highways (in innocuous-looking 18 wheel trucks that transport these poor babies enmass to area pet store) needs to be brought out into the open. See where your local pet store is getting these puppies, once and for all. Please watch, if not for yourself, then for them. They desperately need our help! The more awareness, the better the chances of changing what is happening. Get sad, get mad. You will be doing it for the victims of puppy mills! Go here to find out when Oprah is on in your area - http://www.oprah.com/tows/program/tows_prog_whenwhere.jhtml If you cannot watch Oprah today, please tape it. For more information, go to http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200804/tows_past_20080404.jhtml Please forward on...thank you. goldendox The Dachshund Network - where dachshund and pet lovers are going to share information http://www.thedachshundnetwork.com/index.php [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27007	From: Jeannie Fazio	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: WATCH OPRAH TODAY!

Today is the day that Lisa Ling will be on Oprah investigating "the hidden world of puppy mills! http://www2.oprah.com/tows/coming/tows_come_main.jhtml Now tell me, are you honestly thinking of NOT watching due to the horrendous sadness of it all? Well, I am pleading with you to watch! There is little doubt that, yes, in your seeing what is truly happening (versus hiding from the reality of it), you will cry. But did you know that crying brings healing and healing brings strength? It absolutely does! The saying that "what doesn't kill us makes us stronger" holds very true. We all need to become strong enough so that we can in turn help these poor creatures get out of such catastrophic harm's way. We cannot become strengthened as a universe if we continually avoid this reality. What is hidden in the back woods of rural America, the basements of too many homes, and on highways (in innocuous-looking 18 wheel trucks that transport these poor babies enmass to area pet stores) needs to be brought out into the open. See where your local pet store is getting these puppies, once and for all. Please watch, if not for yourself, then for them. They desperately need our help! The more awareness, the better the chances of changing what is happening. Get sad, get mad. You will be doing it for the victims of puppy mills! Go here to find out when Oprah is on in your area - http://www.oprah.com/tows/program/tows_prog_whenwhere.jhtml If you cannot watch Oprah today, please tape it. For more information, go to http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200804/tows_past_20080404.jhtml Please forward on...thank you. goldendox The Dachshund Network - where dachshund and pet lovers are going to share information http://www.thedachshundnetwork.com/index.php [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27008	From: Lisa Robinson	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: New to this and confused.

Three months ago I put together a 20 gallon, flatback hexagon, freshwater tank. I have since changed from artificial plants to live ones (which I LOVE!), purchased a new filter 2 weeks ago (Penguin 200 Biowheel) and raised the temp.. You see, I wanted the health benefits and beauty of live plants, a larger filter with a biowheel, and I learned that my old thermometer wasn t really the correct size for my original set-up. The tank was purchased as a "Kit" from WalMart. Since I am new to this I'm all confused about tank parameters, cycling, etc... I really have no idea if my tank has cycled or not. Having completely changed it since original set-up only adds to my confusion. I test the water with Jungle Quick Dip 5 and don't know the exact numbers of the results because it is color based and not number based.. My Nitrate seems a little high, Nitrite 0, Hardness is hard, Alkalinity a little low and PH low. Now I have the beginning of Diatoms on my gravel. My plants are thriving and my fish are very healthy. But I'm all confused about my tank parameters, cycles and the brown stuff on my gravel. Whats going on? Have I cycled? Am I cycling? Should I vacuum the diatoms out or let them go? I've read so many conflicting things. I leave my light on for about 10 hours a day. I can't put anymore fish (algae eaters) in the tank because I'm trying to give some fish away now. In my excitement and lack of knowledge I over-stocked my tank but now know better. I already have one common pleco and one catfish Cory. I read where oto's would eat the diatoms but really can't have more fish. My water is absolutely crystal clear to look at it. Really beautiful. I've been doing 25% water changes weekly. But the water parameters, diatoms and cycling is where I get all confused and just can't seem to get a grip on what is good, normal and bad. And I have no idea if it has cycled. Do I vacuum the diatoms? I apologize if this seems like a lot of questions and it seems I'm rambling. Im feeling a little frustrated at myself and defeated about it all. Thanks so much. Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27009	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?

I'm sorry -- there were responses. I thought they'd be emailed and I didn't check here till this morning. The one guy is improving nicely. The white stuff is almost gone and he seems fine; no sign of it on the others. Thanks everyone for the help. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Shirley, Don't know why, but I thought this question was answered, > and regret that it hasn't been. To answer your question short and to > the point -- No, Fungus is not contagious, in the sense that it is > spread from fish to fish as flukes (for example) would be. Most > often (but not always), Fungus is a secondary infection when invading > an organism's wound only after it has already suffered a bacterial > infection. > > In most other cases, when a wound is not part of the equation, its > the direct result of stress on a fish due to inadequate, less-than- > optimum conditions whereby these poor conditions allow ever-present > Fungus to infect a weakened fish. Such a weakened, Fungused fish > will add additional Fungi populations to the water column enabling > another fish to contract it more easily, but then only if that fish > is also so weakened/stressed; a healthy fish will not be infected by > Fungus. The common factor here though is that often, the water > parameters and/or other adverse condition condusive to Fungus > infection is usually in place in these events, affecting (stressing) > all other inhabitants common to that same water column. > > By this, it can be seen that it is not other fish (however infected > or free from Fungus) infecting yet other fish with this pathogen, but > the water and/or other adverse conditions themselves which has > stressed the infected organism to to this point. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@> > wrote: > > > > Anybody out there? To summarize my original post, all I want to know > > is, is fungus contagious? If one of my cichlids has it, are the > others > > susceptible? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I have four male convicts. Four days ago, I noticed that one of > them > > > had white cottony stuff over his right and left eye, caudal area, > > > pectoral fin, and tail, which I determined was a fungus. I realize > > > that males can be aggressive with each other and cause minor > wounds, > > > so I was concerned there might be a wound in addition to the > fungus. I > > > didn't know if the fungus was contagious, so I treated the entire > tank > > > with Marcyn and Maroxy. The one guy is showing significant > > > improvement. No sign of the problem in the others. I have a > hospital > > > tank set up, but I was concerned that the other three might > acquire > > > the fungus and possibly infection, so medicated the entire tank. > > > Should I have put the convict with the obvious fungus in the > hospital > > > tank? > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27010	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?

That's a bit of good news, and encouraging to see there's a marked improvement. Am curious to know if you isolated the affected one to a hospital tank and/or if you made some partial water changes to improve the water conditions. What medication(s) did you use? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > I'm sorry -- there were responses. I thought they'd be emailed and I > didn't check here till this morning. The one guy is improving nicely. > The white stuff is almost gone and he seems fine; no sign of it on the > others. Thanks everyone for the help. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Shirley, Don't know why, but I thought this question was answered, > > and regret that it hasn't been. To answer your question short and to > > the point -- No, Fungus is not contagious, in the sense that it is > > spread from fish to fish as flukes (for example) would be. Most > > often (but not always), Fungus is a secondary infection when invading > > an organism's wound only after it has already suffered a bacterial > > infection. > > > > In most other cases, when a wound is not part of the equation, its > > the direct result of stress on a fish due to inadequate, less- than- > > optimum conditions whereby these poor conditions allow ever- present > > Fungus to infect a weakened fish. Such a weakened, Fungused fish > > will add additional Fungi populations to the water column enabling > > another fish to contract it more easily, but then only if that fish > > is also so weakened/stressed; a healthy fish will not be infected by > > Fungus. The common factor here though is that often, the water > > parameters and/or other adverse condition condusive to Fungus > > infection is usually in place in these events, affecting (stressing) > > all other inhabitants common to that same water column. > > > > By this, it can be seen that it is not other fish (however infected > > or free from Fungus) infecting yet other fish with this pathogen, but > > the water and/or other adverse conditions themselves which has > > stressed the infected organism to to this point. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Anybody out there? To summarize my original post, all I want to know > > > is, is fungus contagious? If one of my cichlids has it, are the > > others > > > susceptible? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have four male convicts. Four days ago, I noticed that one of > > them > > > > had white cottony stuff over his right and left eye, caudal area, > > > > pectoral fin, and tail, which I determined was a fungus. I realize > > > > that males can be aggressive with each other and cause minor > > wounds, > > > > so I was concerned there might be a wound in addition to the > > fungus. I > > > > didn't know if the fungus was contagious, so I treated the entire > > tank > > > > with Marcyn and Maroxy. The one guy is showing significant > > > > improvement. No sign of the problem in the others. I have a > > hospital > > > > tank set up, but I was concerned that the other three might > > acquire > > > > the fungus and possibly infection, so medicated the entire tank. > > > > Should I have put the convict with the obvious fungus in the > > hospital > > > > tank? > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27011	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cloud Eye on Angels

Agreed, Steve usually offers excellent input although in looking for his reply, unless I missed it I still fail to find where he posted on this topic. With its various causes though, Eye Cloud unfortunately cannot always be said to be completely cureable. To the contrary, it can occasionally lead to blindness despite our best efforts to combat it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I saw Steve already replied and I concur with him that many things can cause > things like cloudy eye. For more info, go to this link > http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee (the TinyURL for the long link to > Pandora's Fish Disease page on the WayBack Archives) and scroll down to the > section on Cloudy Eye for images. Following is the text copy/pasted from > that section. > > Common Name - Cloudy Eye > > Pathogen/Cause - Various organisms (nonspecific), Severe Stress, > Malnutrition, Cataracts, Old Age, Hyperproduction of slime due to poisoning, > bad water quality, or irritation > > Physical Signs - A cloudy white or grey "haze" over the eyes that may cause > blindness. > > Behavioral Signs - Associated with loss of vision, also just general signs > of lethargy. > > Potential Treatment - Investigate if water quality is high first (water > changes), then if nutritional needs of that species are being met. Wait at > least a week or two before trying any antibiotics, it will often clear on > its own if water quality is high. > > Other Notes - Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for > ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. Cloudy eye is a sign of a number of things, > rather than a disease in its own right. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of joe t > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:44 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloud Eye on Angels > > Hi Ray, Steve, Lenny....... > > I've inherited some angel fish from a fellow resident in my community. Most > of them are in pretty good health. A few of them, however, are getting/have > what we used to call cloud eye. > > Believe it or not, in all my years raising Angels I never had this problem. > Why these fish have it I don't know. Maybe poor water quality, fighting(?) > > When my angels are pairing off the usual fighting ritual may cause an eye > problem, but I nip it in the bud by isolating the hurt fish in a quarantine > tank, clean water and maybe some salt. Usually heals up in a short time. > > These poor guys have the eyes getting real bad and completely clouded over. > It's so advanced they are not responding to any of my remedies and I hate to > use chemicals without knowing what I am dealing with. Any suggestions? > > joe t > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 > 4:14 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27012	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to this and confused.

Hi Lisa, On my blog's "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page (link in my sig), I have links to two online beginner fish keeping tutorials which cover many of your questions. I strongly suggest that every beginner take one or both of these online free tutorials. How long has your 20G tank been set up? I did not see that answer. Also give us a more detailed list of your stocking. You mention being overstocked but only list your common pleco and cory. I'm not sure if that's all you have but just the pleco overstocks your tank. More about what to do about the pleco later. If you give us your test strip numbers that the colors translate to, we could help with telling you if your tank is cycled. The fact that you have 0 nitrites and your nitrates "seem a little high" likely means your tank is cycled. Do you have an ammonia test strip? In short, "The Nitrogen Cycle" starts with the ammonia released by your fish which is converted to nitrite which is then converted to nitrate. If your ammonia is also 0 like your nitrite, then your tank is cycling properly. The live plants will also use ammonia and nitrite as food sources and will also use the nitrates. Give us the numbers on nitrates. In most cases, as long as you keep them at 40ppm or less, your fish will be fine. In your case, they are probably less than 40ppm due to your plants. On that same A to Z page, there are more specific articles about the nitrogen cycle and each of it's components and you can browse through all of the other articles on things like proper "Filter Cleaning & Maintenance" which is a common problem for newbies. The diatoms are most common with new tank set ups due to the excess silicates in the ecology of the tank. These come from the new silicone of a tank, some decorations and substrates, etc. The diatoms live off the silicates and as the silicates are depleted, the diatoms will die off. You can also just vacuum them up with your regular PWC's (25% partial water changes) and gravel vacuuming. Diatoms are often called brown algae but they are not actually an algae (which is a single celled plant) so your algae eaters will not eat them.. or at least not enjoy them as much as they'd like algae. There is always a chance that your source water has silicates in it. Contact your local water utility for more information about that since we cannot easily test for silicates with the kits available to us hobbyists. You will need to look for a new home for your common pleco as he gets much too large for your tank and needs a bare minimum of 75G. Some LFS (local fish stores) will let you trade them in for store credit as they get bigger since they can resell the larger specimen to people with BIG tanks that have bigger fish that would possibly make a meal of a juvi common pleco. I think I covered all of your questions but like you said, it was quite rambling. It's a good idea to number your questions when you have many so we can make sure and cover them all. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Robinson Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 10:13 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] New to this and confused. Three months ago I put together a 20 gallon, flatback hexagon, freshwater tank. I have since changed from artificial plants to live ones (which I LOVE!), purchased a new filter 2 weeks ago (Penguin 200 Biowheel) and raised the temp.. You see, I wanted the health benefits and beauty of live plants, a larger filter with a biowheel, and I learned that my old thermometer wasn t really the correct size for my original set-up. The tank was purchased as a "Kit" from WalMart. Since I am new to this I'm all confused about tank parameters, cycling, etc... I really have no idea if my tank has cycled or not. Having completely changed it since original set-up only adds to my confusion. I test the water with Jungle Quick Dip 5 and don't know the exact numbers of the results because it is color based and not number based.. My Nitrate seems a little high, Nitrite 0, Hardness is hard, Alkalinity a little low and PH low. Now I have the beginning of Diatoms on my gravel. My plants are thriving and my fish are very healthy. But I'm all confused about my tank parameters, cycles and the brown stuff on my gravel. Whats going on? Have I cycled? Am I cycling? Should I vacuum the diatoms out or let them go? I've read so many conflicting things. I leave my light on for about 10 hours a day. I can't put anymore fish (algae eaters) in the tank because I'm trying to give some fish away now. In my excitement and lack of knowledge I over-stocked my tank but now know better. I already have one common pleco and one catfish Cory. I read where oto's would eat the diatoms but really can't have more fish. My water is absolutely crystal clear to look at it. Really beautiful. I've been doing 25% water changes weekly. But the water parameters, diatoms and cycling is where I get all confused and just can't seem to get a grip on what is good, normal and bad. And I have no idea if it has cycled. Do I vacuum the diatoms? I apologize if this seems like a lot of questions and it seems I'm rambling. Im feeling a little frustrated at myself and defeated about it all. Thanks so much. Lisa No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 4/3/2008 6:36 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27013	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious?

They should have been emailed to you. Your spam filter could be blocking them unless you've changed your settings to "No email" on the group. Log into the groups home page and near the top will be a link called "Manage My Account" or something like that, where you can set things up how you would like them... HTML or Plain text emails... Individual or Daily Digest emails (or no emails), etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlid convicts: is fungus contagious? I'm sorry -- there were responses. I thought they'd be emailed and I didn't check here till this morning. The one guy is improving nicely. The white stuff is almost gone and he seems fine; no sign of it on the others. Thanks everyone for the help. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Shirley, Don't know why, but I thought this question was answered, and > regret that it hasn't been. To answer your question short and to the > point -- No, Fungus is not contagious, in the sense that it is spread > from fish to fish as flukes (for example) would be. Most often (but > not always), Fungus is a secondary infection when invading an > organism's wound only after it has already suffered a bacterial > infection. > > In most other cases, when a wound is not part of the equation, its the > direct result of stress on a fish due to inadequate, less-than- > optimum conditions whereby these poor conditions allow ever-present > Fungus to infect a weakened fish. Such a weakened, Fungused fish will > add additional Fungi populations to the water column enabling another > fish to contract it more easily, but then only if that fish is also so > weakened/stressed; a healthy fish will not be infected by Fungus. The > common factor here though is that often, the water parameters and/or > other adverse condition condusive to Fungus infection is usually in > place in these events, affecting (stressing) all other inhabitants > common to that same water column. > > By this, it can be seen that it is not other fish (however infected or > free from Fungus) infecting yet other fish with this pathogen, but the > water and/or other adverse conditions themselves which has stressed > the infected organism to to this point. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Shirley Reichard" > <shrlycat@> > wrote: > > > > Anybody out there? To summarize my original post, all I want to know > > is, is fungus contagious? If one of my cichlids has it, are the > others > > susceptible? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Shirley Reichard" > > <shrlycat@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I have four male convicts. Four days ago, I noticed that one of > them > > > had white cottony stuff over his right and left eye, caudal area, > > > pectoral fin, and tail, which I determined was a fungus. I realize > > > that males can be aggressive with each other and cause minor > wounds, > > > so I was concerned there might be a wound in addition to the > fungus. I > > > didn't know if the fungus was contagious, so I treated the entire > tank > > > with Marcyn and Maroxy. The one guy is showing significant > > > improvement. No sign of the problem in the others. I have a > hospital > > > tank set up, but I was concerned that the other three might > acquire > > > the fungus and possibly infection, so medicated the entire tank. > > > Should I have put the convict with the obvious fungus in the > hospital > > > tank? > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 4/3/2008 6:36 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27014	From: jett07002	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re; Cloudy Eye on Angels

Ray and Lenny, Thank you both for your input. I didn't see anything from Steve either, Ray, so I think Lenny may have looked quick and presumed it was Steve. I only quarantined the fish with the cloudy eyes and was trying just the quality water with some salt. One of them with just a scratch on the lens is fine now. Have him by himself so he won't get stressed with the other fish pecking at him. The other fellows eyes are pretty far gone. Each is blind in one eye now, I'm sure. I tried a teaspoon of methylene blue in 10 gallons but I don't think I caught it in time. By the way, I asked this guy, when I saw him, what happened to those poor fish and he said he "...didn't know. He thought they were fine when he gave them to me." LOL. I didn't push it. He gave them to me. I didn't pay him. I have four others that I am housing in a 20 gallon temporarily till I'm sure they're in good shape. Thanks for the advice. I'll look for the Jungle Fungus Cure if I see any indications on the others. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27015	From: Chris	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Help! Insane heater!

In my 16 gal I have a submesered heater. I am not sure of the brand as it came with the tank as a 'kit'. It has a plus to minus dial on top. I have put it almost all the way to minus (being cold) and the temp in my tank is 80.6!! The tank is not in direct sunlight (in fact there is no sunlight today at all), and has been fluctuating in temperature for about a week.. My male molly's are not doing so well. One looks like he's prego, and the other is floating almost vertical and curved in body.....almost c shaped...if fish can limp, he's doing it...he wobbles when he swims...I am not sure what to do for these guys...... The platy in the tank seem to be fine, but with that warm of water Who knows?? Any help would be helpful....The water conditons are normal....and I did a partial water change last night and added aquarium salt......

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27016	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Krill

There are those among us who feed krill to some of our fish, usually larger fish. Usually it is dried. Here is a brief on some findings on one species of krill, one that is found in Antarctic waters. http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20080301/fob8.asp \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Cloudy Eye on Angels

Oops... my bad. I went back and looked and it was Ray who first replied so I was concurring with Ray. I'm sure Steve is just sitting back patting himself on the back and having a cold one for doing such a fine job though. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re; Cloudy Eye on Angels Ray and Lenny, Thank you both for your input. I didn't see anything from Steve either, Ray, so I think Lenny may have looked quick and presumed it was Steve. I only quarantined the fish with the cloudy eyes and was trying just the quality water with some salt. One of them with just a scratch on the lens is fine now. Have him by himself so he won't get stressed with the other fish pecking at him. The other fellows eyes are pretty far gone. Each is blind in one eye now, I'm sure. I tried a teaspoon of methylene blue in 10 gallons but I don't think I caught it in time. By the way, I asked this guy, when I saw him, what happened to those poor fish and he said he "...didn't know. He thought they were fine when he gave them to me." LOL. I didn't push it. He gave them to me. I didn't pay him. I have four others that I am housing in a 20 gallon temporarily till I'm sure they're in good shape. Thanks for the advice. I'll look for the Jungle Fungus Cure if I see any indications on the others. joe t No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 4/3/2008 6:36 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27018	From: animalnecklaces	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Aquatic animal necklaces

Hello, My name is Vicki and I live in the Bay Area. I'm a retired teacher and I love animals. To keep busy and help in my retirement, I make high quality low cost animal necklaces. The Animals come from people in Latin America which helps their economy, promotes their animals, and is not more cheap goods from China. I hope it would be ok to join your group and put up an occasional post so your members have the chance to find these very nice aquatic necklaces. We have many varieties such as seahorses, clownfish, Sharks, Dolphins, Turtles etc. http://www.californiajewels.com/caljwlpr/animals/animals02.htm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27019	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Insane heater!

If your heater is not holding a steady temperature, go immediately to the store to get a new one. Me? I'd look at a Supreme Heetmaster (do they still sell those?) or an Ebo-Jaeger. Of the former, I have one that is approaching 50, and the last time I used it, it was still fine (though, I must admit to replacing the contacts a couple of times). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help! Insane heater! In my 16 gal I have a submesered heater. I am not sure of the brand as it came with the tank as a 'kit'. It has a plus to minus dial on top. I have put it almost all the way to minus (being cold) and the temp in my tank is 80.6!! The tank is not in direct sunlight (in fact there is no sunlight today at all), and has been fluctuating in temperature for about a week.. My male molly's are not doing so well. One looks like he's prego, and the other is floating almost vertical and curved in body.....almost c shaped...if fish can limp, he's doing it...he wobbles when he swims...I am not sure what to do for these guys...... The platy in the tank seem to be fine, but with that warm of water Who knows?? Any help would be helpful....The water conditons are normal....and I did a partial water change last night and added aquarium salt...... ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27020	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: betta question

So I got a new betta the other day. And I finally brought him the 6 gallon eclipse tank from work we had set up. I was wondering, is it ok to keep these guys on sand? I really want a sand bottom over a gravel bottom. I just dont want to put it in there without seeing if it will work ok or not first. ~Melissa ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27021	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cloud Eye on Angels

If, by Steve, you all mean me, I did skip on that one. It was late when I saw it, and I pretty much make it a firm rule to get at least 4 hours of sleep a night. It is surprising how early 5:30 in the morning can be. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloud Eye on Angels Agreed, Steve usually offers excellent input although in looking for his reply, unless I missed it I still fail to find where he posted on this topic. With its various causes though, Eye Cloud unfortunately cannot always be said to be completely cureable. To the contrary, it can occasionally lead to blindness despite our best efforts to combat it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I saw Steve already replied and I concur with him that many things can cause > things like cloudy eye. For more info, go to this link > http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee (the TinyURL for the long link to > Pandora's Fish Disease page on the WayBack Archives) and scroll down to the > section on Cloudy Eye for images. Following is the text copy/pasted from > that section. > > Common Name - Cloudy Eye > > Pathogen/Cause - Various organisms (nonspecific), Severe Stress, > Malnutrition, Cataracts, Old Age, Hyperproduction of slime due to poisoning, > bad water quality, or irritation > > Physical Signs - A cloudy white or grey "haze" over the eyes that may cause > blindness. > > Behavioral Signs - Associated with loss of vision, also just general signs > of lethargy. > > Potential Treatment - Investigate if water quality is high first (water > changes), then if nutritional needs of that species are being met. Wait at > least a week or two before trying any antibiotics, it will often clear on > its own if water quality is high. > > Other Notes - Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for > ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. Cloudy eye is a sign of a number of things, > rather than a disease in its own right. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of joe t > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:44 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloud Eye on Angels > > Hi Ray, Steve, Lenny....... > > I've inherited some angel fish from a fellow resident in my community. Most > of them are in pretty good health. A few of them, however, are getting/have > what we used to call cloud eye. > > Believe it or not, in all my years raising Angels I never had this problem. > Why these fish have it I don't know. Maybe poor water quality, fighting(?) > > When my angels are pairing off the usual fighting ritual may cause an eye > problem, but I nip it in the bud by isolating the hurt fish in a quarantine > tank, clean water and maybe some salt. Usually heals up in a short time. > > These poor guys have the eyes getting real bad and completely clouded over. > It's so advanced they are not responding to any of my remedies and I hate to > use chemicals without knowing what I am dealing with. Any suggestions? > > joe t > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27022	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Cloudy Eye on Angels

No telling what the poor fish have been thru, I have been called to the worst cases you can imagine. I am a service company. One time this person call for service, when I got there all her fish had died 10 days before, she covered the tank with a sheet and call us to clean up the mess. I knew instantly when I walked into the house, there was this dead fish stench. I left an did not do the service, but not before I gave her a good talking too. The water level was 12" down and the hob filter could not fun, and was making allot of noise, so she unplugged it! I even have worse stories,but I don't want to make anyone sick.I just wish people would realize that fish are real pets! not disposable pets! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: jett07002 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:55 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re; Cloudy Eye on Angels Ray and Lenny, Thank you both for your input. I didn't see anything from Steve either, Ray, so I think Lenny may have looked quick and presumed it was Steve. I only quarantined the fish with the cloudy eyes and was trying just the quality water with some salt. One of them with just a scratch on the lens is fine now. Have him by himself so he won't get stressed with the other fish pecking at him. The other fellows eyes are pretty far gone. Each is blind in one eye now, I'm sure. I tried a teaspoon of methylene blue in 10 gallons but I don't think I caught it in time. By the way, I asked this guy, when I saw him, what happened to those poor fish and he said he "...didn't know. He thought they were fine when he gave them to me." LOL. I didn't push it. He gave them to me. I didn't pay him. I have four others that I am housing in a 20 gallon temporarily till I'm sure they're in good shape. Thanks for the advice. I'll look for the Jungle Fungus Cure if I see any indications on the others. joe t ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1359 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 8:23 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27023	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Insane heater!

First, if your heater is malfunctioning, which apparently it is, you should replace it. Maybe go with two 25W heaters so you have less chance of overheating and less chance of heater failure. Next, your fish are showing signs of various problems, possibly related to temperature swings that will cause stress issues to fish and stress will weaken a fishes immune system allowing things that fish could normally handle to become problematic. The curved spine could be a sign of fish TB or it could also be caused by electrical shock... which could be related to the malfunctioning heater. The bloating is generally an internal bacterial issue. The fish TB, if that is what it is, is contagious to humans so you should take precautions when fooling with the tank. Go to this page http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee which is the tinyURL for a long link to Pandora's Fish Disease page and review the information and pictures for the above two issues and treat accordingly. How long has the tank been set up and what are your water parameters as far as ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness, etc.? How often are you doing PWC's (partial water changes)? If you are still kind of new to fish keeping, go to my blog and on the page "A to Z of Fish Keeping", there are links to two different free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping which will help you become a better fish keeper in the future. Lots of other good info on that page as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 4:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help! Insane heater! In my 16 gal I have a submesered heater. I am not sure of the brand as it came with the tank as a 'kit'. It has a plus to minus dial on top. I have put it almost all the way to minus (being cold) and the temp in my tank is 80.6!! The tank is not in direct sunlight (in fact there is no sunlight today at all), and has been fluctuating in temperature for about a week.. My male molly's are not doing so well. One looks like he's prego, and the other is floating almost vertical and curved in body.....almost c shaped...if fish can limp, he's doing it...he wobbles when he swims...I am not sure what to do for these guys...... The platy in the tank seem to be fine, but with that warm of water Who knows?? Any help would be helpful....The water conditons are normal....and I did a partial water change last night and added aquarium salt...... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 4/3/2008 6:36 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27024	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cloud Eye on Angels

You sound like me Steve, but if I get more than 4 hours, I get that hang over felling. LOL Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 8:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloud Eye on Angels If, by Steve, you all mean me, I did skip on that one. It was late when I saw it, and I pretty much make it a firm rule to get at least 4 hours of sleep a night. It is surprising how early 5:30 in the morning can be. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloud Eye on Angels Agreed, Steve usually offers excellent input although in looking for his reply, unless I missed it I still fail to find where he posted on this topic. With its various causes though, Eye Cloud unfortunately cannot always be said to be completely cureable. To the contrary, it can occasionally lead to blindness despite our best efforts to combat it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I saw Steve already replied and I concur with him that many things can cause > things like cloudy eye. For more info, go to this link > http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee (the TinyURL for the long link to > Pandora's Fish Disease page on the WayBack Archives) and scroll down to the > section on Cloudy Eye for images. Following is the text copy/pasted from > that section. > > Common Name - Cloudy Eye > > Pathogen/Cause - Various organisms (nonspecific), Severe Stress, > Malnutrition, Cataracts, Old Age, Hyperproduction of slime due to poisoning, > bad water quality, or irritation > > Physical Signs - A cloudy white or grey "haze" over the eyes that may cause > blindness. > > Behavioral Signs - Associated with loss of vision, also just general signs > of lethargy. > > Potential Treatment - Investigate if water quality is high first (water > changes), then if nutritional needs of that species are being met. Wait at > least a week or two before trying any antibiotics, it will often clear on > its own if water quality is high. > > Other Notes - Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for > ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. Cloudy eye is a sign of a number of things, > rather than a disease in its own right. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of joe t > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:44 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloud Eye on Angels > > Hi Ray, Steve, Lenny....... > > I've inherited some angel fish from a fellow resident in my community. Most > of them are in pretty good health. A few of them, however, are getting/have > what we used to call cloud eye. > > Believe it or not, in all my years raising Angels I never had this problem. > Why these fish have it I don't know. Maybe poor water quality, fighting(?) > > When my angels are pairing off the usual fighting ritual may cause an eye > problem, but I nip it in the bud by isolating the hurt fish in a quarantine > tank, clean water and maybe some salt. Usually heals up in a short time. > > These poor guys have the eyes getting real bad and completely clouded over. > It's so advanced they are not responding to any of my remedies and I hate to > use chemicals without knowing what I am dealing with. Any suggestions? > > joe t > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1359 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 8:23 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up

More late breaking news about Bio-Spira... I wonder if it's going to work as well as the original product or if it's just going to another bacteria-in-a-bottle that doesn't work. It could be why they are releasing it under Tetra's label since Tetra will pretty much sell anything in a bottle... look at their Easy Balance with Nitraban product which is pure JUNK!!! Here is the reply I got from Marineland... Hello, We are relaunching bio-spira. It is in a new package and reformulated. It will no longer need to be refrigerated, and hopefully, soon on every store shelf across the nation. The freshwater version will be branded Tetra and called start right, while the saltwater version will be branded Instant Ocean and still be called Bio-Spira. They held off on adding it to the webpage because of this change. Regards, Robert Huber United Pet Group, Aquatics Div. Senior Consumer Relations Specialist Robert.Huber@... 1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:29 AM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Mike, I was shocked when I saw your post so I did some Googling and it looks like the rumor may be partially correct. http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com was carrying Bio-Spira up until recently but now it's no longer on their website either. When I looked at http://www.Marineland.com, there's no mention of Bio-Spira either. WTF!! Then I called Marineland's 800 number and found out some interesting stuff. For the past couple of years, Marineland has been working on a way to bottle Bio-Spira so it did not have to be refrigerated, since the refrigeration aspect was a big problem getting Bio-Spira into ALL pet stores and/or selling it easily online. According to the person I spoke to, there is still some of the "old" product available at some retailers and online sources but he could not give me any of the online sources because his computer was acting up. The new Marineland website still has the store locator function and he suggested looking for a retailer in the area and contacting them to see if any have or might have access to some of the remaining inventory of the old Bio-Spira. It will be interesting to see how they package it and their explanation as to why it doesn't have to be refrigerated since the big explanation for why Bio-Spira worked all along and why all of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products didn't work was because it was refrigerated and the bacteria were kept in hibernation. The room temperature stuff could not keep the bacteria alive if there ever was live bacteria in the room temp bottles in the first place. He also said that they just revamped their website and did not put Bio-Spira on it yet since the new product isn't available yet and they have shipped their final inventory of the old product. I told him they should put a press release or something on a link to Bio-Spira on their website so people will know, otherwise the internet rumor mill will have all kinds of misinformation out there in a matter of minutes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 4:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Sissy, I heard a new batch has not been made in about two years and none is scheduled to be made at this time. I heard a rumor that Dr. Fosters and Smith might have an alternative but have not had a chance to check myself. -Mike If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if -----Original Message----- From: Sissy Sathre <ssathre@... <mailto:ssathre%40suddenlink.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:31 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi Lisa, a 50 gallon is a perfect size aquarium for a beginner. Much larger margin for mistakes than smaller tanks. I suggest going to : http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm> You will find "Good" information there from very experienced aquariest. You'll find different ways of filtering your new aquarium from under ground filters, invented in the 1950's to supply oxygen to your bacteria bed-creating a biological balance, to the newest methods of we/dry filters, bio-wheels,other hang on filters, canister filters and denitrification filters. If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if you call Marineland and tell them you cant find it in your area, they will send it to you Free overnight shipping and all. It has a short shelf life and has to be keep cool,so many stores dont carry it. I am the Marineland service rep. in west-Tx. They have sent it to me to give out before for free ! Marineland is the manufacture of commercial lobster tanks, and MARS systems, the wall unites you see in Wal-marts and they manufacture aquariums and aquarium supplies including the Bio-wheel filters. You can of coarse cycle the fishless way,and speed the process of the nitrogen cycle. The best way in my opinion is to get a hand full of gravel from a healthy existing aquarium, or exchange bio-wheels from a existing filter. I do both and start my clients tanks out with hardy fish in 24 hours. I only add a few fish to feed the bacteria bed, then make sure no mini cycle is taking place, and then add a few more every couple weeks until is at capacity for the size the fish will grow. I hope this helps! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi all. I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the help I can get. It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would be able to keep with them. Either that or some angels. So where do I start? I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with experience. First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? How do I get the right water conditions? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 4:14 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 4/3/2008 6:36 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27026	From: Jerry Lynch	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: New member introduction

My name is Jerry & I am a sometimes English teacher in Korea & The Philippines. I'm American and my wife is Filipina. Currently we are in Dasmariñas, Cavite but will live in Dinagat after I quit teaching. I have had aquariums for 50 years and do not believe in salt water tanks because of the harvest methods used in obtaining specimens. All of my tanks are in American and I will replace them after I move permanently to Dinagat & build my house. I am particularly intersted in livebreeders and bettas. Are there any indigeonous Philippine species of freshwater fish commonly kept in aquariums?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27027	From: Rob White	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

"Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: If it's a green cloud, then it's usually an algae bloom. A white cloud is usually a bacterial bloom, oftentimes just the nitrifying bacteria blooming in response to a mini-cycle caused by over cleaning or changing the filter media. See my blog for my article on "Filter Cleaning & Maintenance" so you do not repeat this common mistake. Proper filter maintenance is much more critical on overstocked tanks and new set ups. DO NOT use chemical treatments as they will usually just make things worse... as you've seen. I did a quick Google on "Aqua Clear" and is this what you used? http://www.kwzone.com/products/links/science.htm (second product down on the left side?) That's not even for an algae bloom and none the less, you shouldn't be using that stuff (aka crap) or their Algae Clear (aka crap) in your tank either. Chemicals might clear things up temporarily but if you don't fix the root cause, then it's just going to turn your tank into a chemical waste dump suitable for listing on the EPA Superfund Site list. ;-) Usually algae blooms are caused by too many nutrients in the water (nitrogenous compounds, phosphates, etc.) and too much light. You can reduce the lighting period and do more frequent PWC's, gravel vacuuming and proper filter cleaning to reduce the nutrients in the water column. Tell us more about your tank. Size (never mind, I saw 120 L = 35G), fish and numbers of each, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness levels, your PWC (partial water change) schedule prior to this issue, etc. What kind of substrate? Are you vacuuming your substrate good with each PWC? Do you have any live plants? Any thing and every thing about your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rob_white18 Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water please somebody help me i have a tropical fish tank housing mostly bristlenosed catfish few tetra so on the problem is my water has all of a sudden gone cloudy it also has a green twinge to it the fish are perfectly happy it just makes the tank look awful ive been trying to remedy the problem for months now ive tried aqua clear which worked then just made it worse now im on water changes weekly and after changing a massive 50% water which i know i should nt the problem got better for about 24 hours then within 72 hours it was back to the same cloudy mess i had to start with im contemplating starting a fresh please somebody help thanks oh by the way my tank holds 120 litres No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 5:37 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links THANKS FOR YOUR REPLIE SO FAST I NEVER USED ANY OF THEM AQUA CLEAR BOTTLES IT WAS MADE BY A COMPANY CALLED NUTRIFIN I THINK THE FISH SHOP TOLD ME TO USE IT THERE USUALLY PRETTY GOOD AS FOR MY TANK IT IS A FLUVAL DUO DEEP 120 LITRES SHOULD SEE IT IF YOU GOGGLE IMAGE IT THE FISH I HAVE INSIDE ARE TROPICAL 4 BLACK WIDOW TETRAS 3 RUMMY NOSED TETRAS 3 CARDINAL TETRAS PLEASE FORGIVE ME BUT I DONT KNOW HOW MANY BRISTLENOSED CATFISH I HAVE AS THEY KEEP MULTIPLYING THERE COULD PROBALY BE BETWEEN TWENTY TO THIRTY IN THERE ITS FILTERED WITH A FLUVAL 3 PLUS SUBSTRATE IS SAND FEW PLANTS SORRY COULDNT TELL YOU WHAT THEY WERE FEW PLASTIC ONES ASWELL (SHAME ON ME) BOGWOOD LAVA ROCKS TERRECOTA PLANT POT AND A LANTERN LIGHTS ARE ON 10 HOURS A DAY BETWEEN 13.00 AND 22.00 I USED TO CLEAN OUT EVERY TWO WEEKS BEEN FINE FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS TAKE OUT BOUT 25% VACUM THE SAND CLEAN THE MEDIA IN THE WATER CHANGE MEDIA EVERY MONTH OR TWO DONT HAVE A CHEMICAL TESTER SO WOULDNT HAVE A CLUE ABOUT THE CHEMICALS INSIDE I LIVE IN THE COUNTRY AND THE WATER QUALITY OUT OF THE TAP IS PRETTY GOOD CHEERS MATE --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27028	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Heaters

In the spring time when we had allot of lighting storms and the power goes out, that burst of energy from the lighting and freeze your points shut on your heater. I suggest you turn the heater off or unplug it during the warm months and especially during lighting storms. If the points get welded together , the heater will run indefinitely and boil your fish.Small aquariums or bowls will change temp in a few hours to the room temp, if your comfortable ,so are your fish. A large aquariums can take days to change temps and again if your comfortable so are your fish. Most heated homes don't even need heaters on the aquariums. Ok now I'm ready to get blasted by some of you LOL. I live in a warm climate,and don't even use heaters, even in the winter time. And on reef tanks have to use chillers year around.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27029	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: New member introduction

Here is a list of FW fish from the Philippines according to Fishbase.org. If the link breaks, go to http://fishbase.org and scroll down about 1/3rd and under the section "Information by Country/Island", click the drop down menu and choose Philippines, then put a bullet in Freshwater under Biodiversity and it will bring up the below page of fish with links to each profile. http://fishbase.org/Country/CountryChecklist.php?c_code=608&vhabitat=fresh&c sub_code= http://fish.Mongabay.com is another good resource for fish profiles and biotope information. Here are two pages of FW fish from two lakes in the Philippines. Search around on Mongabay as there may be more. http://fish.mongabay.com/data/ecosystems/Lake%20Buluan.htm http://fish.mongabay.com/data/ecosystems/Taal.htm Hope this helps. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Lynch Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New member introduction My name is Jerry & I am a sometimes English teacher in Korea & The Philippines. I'm American and my wife is Filipina. Currently we are in Dasmariñas, Cavite but will live in Dinagat after I quit teaching. I have had aquariums for 50 years and do not believe in salt water tanks because of the harvest methods used in obtaining specimens. All of my tanks are in American and I will replace them after I move permanently to Dinagat & build my house. I am particularly intersted in livebreeders and bettas. Are there any indigeonous Philippine species of freshwater fish commonly kept in aquariums? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 4/3/2008 6:36 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27030	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up

I can not see how a oxygen loving bacteria can live in a bottle! What are they using ? Hydrogin Peroxide? Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up More late breaking news about Bio-Spira... I wonder if it's going to work as well as the original product or if it's just going to another bacteria-in-a-bottle that doesn't work. It could be why they are releasing it under Tetra's label since Tetra will pretty much sell anything in a bottle... look at their Easy Balance with Nitraban product which is pure JUNK!!! Here is the reply I got from Marineland... Hello, We are relaunching bio-spira. It is in a new package and reformulated. It will no longer need to be refrigerated, and hopefully, soon on every store shelf across the nation. The freshwater version will be branded Tetra and called start right, while the saltwater version will be branded Instant Ocean and still be called Bio-Spira. They held off on adding it to the webpage because of this change. Regards, Robert Huber United Pet Group, Aquatics Div. Senior Consumer Relations Specialist Robert.Huber@... 1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:29 AM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Mike, I was shocked when I saw your post so I did some Googling and it looks like the rumor may be partially correct. http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com was carrying Bio-Spira up until recently but now it's no longer on their website either. When I looked at http://www.Marineland.com, there's no mention of Bio-Spira either. WTF!! Then I called Marineland's 800 number and found out some interesting stuff. For the past couple of years, Marineland has been working on a way to bottle Bio-Spira so it did not have to be refrigerated, since the refrigeration aspect was a big problem getting Bio-Spira into ALL pet stores and/or selling it easily online. According to the person I spoke to, there is still some of the "old" product available at some retailers and online sources but he could not give me any of the online sources because his computer was acting up. The new Marineland website still has the store locator function and he suggested looking for a retailer in the area and contacting them to see if any have or might have access to some of the remaining inventory of the old Bio-Spira. It will be interesting to see how they package it and their explanation as to why it doesn't have to be refrigerated since the big explanation for why Bio-Spira worked all along and why all of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products didn't work was because it was refrigerated and the bacteria were kept in hibernation. The room temperature stuff could not keep the bacteria alive if there ever was live bacteria in the room temp bottles in the first place. He also said that they just revamped their website and did not put Bio-Spira on it yet since the new product isn't available yet and they have shipped their final inventory of the old product. I told him they should put a press release or something on a link to Bio-Spira on their website so people will know, otherwise the internet rumor mill will have all kinds of misinformation out there in a matter of minutes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 4:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Sissy, I heard a new batch has not been made in about two years and none is scheduled to be made at this time. I heard a rumor that Dr. Fosters and Smith might have an alternative but have not had a chance to check myself. -Mike If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if -----Original Message----- From: Sissy Sathre <ssathre@... <mailto:ssathre%40suddenlink.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:31 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi Lisa, a 50 gallon is a perfect size aquarium for a beginner. Much larger margin for mistakes than smaller tanks. I suggest going to : http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm> You will find "Good" information there from very experienced aquariest. You'll find different ways of filtering your new aquarium from under ground filters, invented in the 1950's to supply oxygen to your bacteria bed-creating a biological balance, to the newest methods of we/dry filters, bio-wheels,other hang on filters, canister filters and denitrification filters. If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if you call Marineland and tell them you cant find it in your area, they will send it to you Free overnight shipping and all. It has a short shelf life and has to be keep cool,so many stores dont carry it. I am the Marineland service rep. in west-Tx. They have sent it to me to give out before for free ! Marineland is the manufacture of commercial lobster tanks, and MARS systems, the wall unites you see in Wal-marts and they manufacture aquariums and aquarium supplies including the Bio-wheel filters. You can of coarse cycle the fishless way,and speed the process of the nitrogen cycle. The best way in my opinion is to get a hand full of gravel from a healthy existing aquarium, or exchange bio-wheels from a existing filter. I do both and start my clients tanks out with hardy fish in 24 hours. I only add a few fish to feed the bacteria bed, then make sure no mini cycle is taking place, and then add a few more every couple weeks until is at capacity for the size the fish will grow. I hope this helps! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi all. I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the help I can get. It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would be able to keep with them. Either that or some angels. So where do I start? I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with experience. First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? How do I get the right water conditions? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 4:14 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 4/3/2008 6:36 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1359 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 8:23 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27031	From: bruce cohen	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up

Not all all bacteria in a bottle are pure JUNK The tropical science company have an excellent line of bacterias in a bottle both for saltwater and fresh including freshwater spawning aid as well as pro botics that protect fish. they even have a gravel product that does what it says cleans the gravel without increasing nitrates. it apears that marineland may have figured out a way to put the bacteria in a statis but I do know that Jungle Labs are probally not going to be happy when they have to re name there product since theirs were on the market first then they should have the rights to calling there product start right. "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: More late breaking news about Bio-Spira... I wonder if it's going to work as well as the original product or if it's just going to another bacteria-in-a-bottle that doesn't work. It could be why they are releasing it under Tetra's label since Tetra will pretty much sell anything in a bottle... look at their Easy Balance with Nitraban product which is pure JUNK!!! Here is the reply I got from Marineland... Hello, We are relaunching bio-spira. It is in a new package and reformulated. It will no longer need to be refrigerated, and hopefully, soon on every store shelf across the nation. The freshwater version will be branded Tetra and called start right, while the saltwater version will be branded Instant Ocean and still be called Bio-Spira. They held off on adding it to the webpage because of this change. Regards, Robert Huber United Pet Group, Aquatics Div. Senior Consumer Relations Specialist Robert.Huber@... 1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:29 AM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Mike, I was shocked when I saw your post so I did some Googling and it looks like the rumor may be partially correct. http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com was carrying Bio-Spira up until recently but now it's no longer on their website either. When I looked at http://www.Marineland.com, there's no mention of Bio-Spira either. WTF!! Then I called Marineland's 800 number and found out some interesting stuff. For the past couple of years, Marineland has been working on a way to bottle Bio-Spira so it did not have to be refrigerated, since the refrigeration aspect was a big problem getting Bio-Spira into ALL pet stores and/or selling it easily online. According to the person I spoke to, there is still some of the "old" product available at some retailers and online sources but he could not give me any of the online sources because his computer was acting up. The new Marineland website still has the store locator function and he suggested looking for a retailer in the area and contacting them to see if any have or might have access to some of the remaining inventory of the old Bio-Spira. It will be interesting to see how they package it and their explanation as to why it doesn't have to be refrigerated since the big explanation for why Bio-Spira worked all along and why all of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products didn't work was because it was refrigerated and the bacteria were kept in hibernation. The room temperature stuff could not keep the bacteria alive if there ever was live bacteria in the room temp bottles in the first place. He also said that they just revamped their website and did not put Bio-Spira on it yet since the new product isn't available yet and they have shipped their final inventory of the old product. I told him they should put a press release or something on a link to Bio-Spira on their website so people will know, otherwise the internet rumor mill will have all kinds of misinformation out there in a matter of minutes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 4:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Sissy, I heard a new batch has not been made in about two years and none is scheduled to be made at this time. I heard a rumor that Dr. Fosters and Smith might have an alternative but have not had a chance to check myself. -Mike If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if -----Original Message----- From: Sissy Sathre > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:31 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi Lisa, a 50 gallon is a perfect size aquarium for a beginner. Much larger margin for mistakes than smaller tanks. I suggest going to : http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm You will find "Good" information there from very experienced aquariest. You'll find different ways of filtering your new aquarium from under ground filters, invented in the 1950's to supply oxygen to your bacteria bed-creating a biological balance, to the newest methods of we/dry filters, bio-wheels,other hang on filters, canister filters and denitrification filters. If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if you call Marineland and tell them you cant find it in your area, they will send it to you Free overnight shipping and all. It has a short shelf life and has to be keep cool,so many stores dont carry it. I am the Marineland service rep. in west-Tx. They have sent it to me to give out before for free ! Marineland is the manufacture of commercial lobster tanks, and MARS systems, the wall unites you see in Wal-marts and they manufacture aquariums and aquarium supplies including the Bio-wheel filters. You can of coarse cycle the fishless way,and speed the process of the nitrogen cycle. The best way in my opinion is to get a hand full of gravel from a healthy existing aquarium, or exchange bio-wheels from a existing filter. I do both and start my clients tanks out with hardy fish in 24 hours. I only add a few fish to feed the bacteria bed, then make sure no mini cycle is taking place, and then add a few more every couple weeks until is at capacity for the size the fish will grow. I hope this helps! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi all. I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the help I can get. It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would be able to keep with them. Either that or some angels. So where do I start? I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with experience. First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? How do I get the right water conditions? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 4:14 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 4/3/2008 6:36 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27032	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up

Bruce, There simply is not a way to have a room temp bottle of live nitrifying bacteria that would have a shelf life of more than a few days. The science simply doesn't support it. The bacteria need high O2 levels and feed off of ammonia... but if the ammonia level is above 5ppm, it starts to have a negative effect on the bacteria's colony growth and lifespan. Further, the bacteria colony is capable of doubling its size every 24-48 hours so even if they only put one or two nitrifying bacteria in a 16 oz. bottle of 5ppm ammonia solution, based on geometric progression, the colony would rapidly grow and consume all of the ammonia in a very short period of time. Show me a product that has live bacteria living in the bottle after a couple of months in production, distribution and sitting on a shelf and I'll take back my words but frankly, I don't think such a product exists. I've tried several of the other so-called bottled bacteria products over the years and NONE of them worked as advertised... except Bio-Spira. This is what was so GREAT about the original Bio-Spira and that it was kept refrigerated to keep the bacteria in hibernation so they did not consume all of the ammonia in the package until it was time to add the package to the aquarium. There were peer reviewed scientific reports proving that Bio-Spira actually had live nitrifying bacteria. I've never seen any peer reviewed reports on any of the other so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle products. Once again, I'll take back my words if you can show me such reports on the products you claim work. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bruce cohen Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 10:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Not all all bacteria in a bottle are pure JUNK The tropical science company have an excellent line of bacterias in a bottle both for saltwater and fresh including freshwater spawning aid as well as pro botics that protect fish. they even have a gravel product that does what it says cleans the gravel without increasing nitrates. it apears that marineland may have figured out a way to put the bacteria in a statis but I do know that Jungle Labs are probally not going to be happy when they have to re name there product since theirs were on the market first then they should have the rights to calling there product start right. "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: More late breaking news about Bio-Spira... I wonder if it's going to work as well as the original product or if it's just going to another bacteria-in-a-bottle that doesn't work. It could be why they are releasing it under Tetra's label since Tetra will pretty much sell anything in a bottle... look at their Easy Balance with Nitraban product which is pure JUNK!!! Here is the reply I got from Marineland... Hello, We are relaunching bio-spira. It is in a new package and reformulated. It will no longer need to be refrigerated, and hopefully, soon on every store shelf across the nation. The freshwater version will be branded Tetra and called start right, while the saltwater version will be branded Instant Ocean and still be called Bio-Spira. They held off on adding it to the webpage because of this change. Regards, Robert Huber United Pet Group, Aquatics Div. Senior Consumer Relations Specialist Robert.Huber@... <mailto:Robert.Huber%40Tetra.net> 1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:29 AM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Mike, I was shocked when I saw your post so I did some Googling and it looks like the rumor may be partially correct. http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> was carrying Bio-Spira up until recently but now it's no longer on their website either. When I looked at http://www.Marineland.com, <http://www.Marineland.com,> there's no mention of Bio-Spira either. WTF!! Then I called Marineland's 800 number and found out some interesting stuff. For the past couple of years, Marineland has been working on a way to bottle Bio-Spira so it did not have to be refrigerated, since the refrigeration aspect was a big problem getting Bio-Spira into ALL pet stores and/or selling it easily online. According to the person I spoke to, there is still some of the "old" product available at some retailers and online sources but he could not give me any of the online sources because his computer was acting up. The new Marineland website still has the store locator function and he suggested looking for a retailer in the area and contacting them to see if any have or might have access to some of the remaining inventory of the old Bio-Spira. It will be interesting to see how they package it and their explanation as to why it doesn't have to be refrigerated since the big explanation for why Bio-Spira worked all along and why all of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products didn't work was because it was refrigerated and the bacteria were kept in hibernation. The room temperature stuff could not keep the bacteria alive if there ever was live bacteria in the room temp bottles in the first place. He also said that they just revamped their website and did not put Bio-Spira on it yet since the new product isn't available yet and they have shipped their final inventory of the old product. I told him they should put a press release or something on a link to Bio-Spira on their website so people will know, otherwise the internet rumor mill will have all kinds of misinformation out there in a matter of minutes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 4:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Sissy, I heard a new batch has not been made in about two years and none is scheduled to be made at this time. I heard a rumor that Dr. Fosters and Smith might have an alternative but have not had a chance to check myself. -Mike If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if -----Original Message----- From: Sissy Sathre > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:31 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi Lisa, a 50 gallon is a perfect size aquarium for a beginner. Much larger margin for mistakes than smaller tanks. I suggest going to : http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm> You will find "Good" information there from very experienced aquariest. You'll find different ways of filtering your new aquarium from under ground filters, invented in the 1950's to supply oxygen to your bacteria bed-creating a biological balance, to the newest methods of we/dry filters, bio-wheels,other hang on filters, canister filters and denitrification filters. If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if you call Marineland and tell them you cant find it in your area, they will send it to you Free overnight shipping and all. It has a short shelf life and has to be keep cool,so many stores dont carry it. I am the Marineland service rep. in west-Tx. They have sent it to me to give out before for free ! Marineland is the manufacture of commercial lobster tanks, and MARS systems, the wall unites you see in Wal-marts and they manufacture aquariums and aquarium supplies including the Bio-wheel filters. You can of coarse cycle the fishless way,and speed the process of the nitrogen cycle. The best way in my opinion is to get a hand full of gravel from a healthy existing aquarium, or exchange bio-wheels from a existing filter. I do both and start my clients tanks out with hardy fish in 24 hours. I only add a few fish to feed the bacteria bed, then make sure no mini cycle is taking place, and then add a few more every couple weeks until is at capacity for the size the fish will grow. I hope this helps! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi all. I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the help I can get. It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would be able to keep with them. Either that or some angels. So where do I start? I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with experience. First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? How do I get the right water conditions? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 4/3/2008 6:36 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27033	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

The biggest part of your problem is that you are severely overstocked. For that stocking level, you should be doing at least daily 25% PWC's and even that will only be a temporary measure until you can rehome a lot of your fish... mainly all of the extra BN plecos. What might have worked two years ago will not continue to work as the fish get larger and you get more fish from them breeding. For example, if you have ten 1" fish and you are doing bi-weekly PWC's, then your fish grow to 2", you would need to do twice weekly PWC's to keep the water quality the same. Depending on the fish, many grow in body mass up to eight times for each time they double their length so a 2" fish would be equal to eight 1" fish when they were smaller. Your tank is probably only large enough for a single BN Pleco. 20-30 is 19-29 too many. Even a single BN Pleco can handle the algae growth of a 35G properly stocked tank. With all your extra fish, they are putting out so much ammonia that your filter and nitrifying bacteria colonies cannot handle the bioload which is why nature is causing the algae bloom. Without the algae bloom, your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels would likely be off the charts. The algae is helping consume the excess nutrients from all the fish but it's not helping with the excess hormones and stress being cause to your fish. If you do not immediately reduce the number of fish you have... sell some or give some away... Darwinism will reduce the number of fish for you. Darwinism is just my nice way of saying they will start to get sick and die early deaths.. survival of the fittest. Also and especially in a heavily stocked or overstocked tank, you must be cautious when doing filter maintenance and NEVER throw away your filter since you are throwing away the majority of your nitrifying bacteria when you do that which will put your tank into a mini-cycle causing ammonia/nitrite spikes which will permanently harm and/or kill your fish. Go to my blog and read over my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and take the online tutorials on the basics of fish keeping and read my article on proper "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning" so you do not continue making this mistake. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob White Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] cloudy water THANKS FOR YOUR REPLIE SO FAST I NEVER USED ANY OF THEM AQUA CLEAR BOTTLES IT WAS MADE BY A COMPANY CALLED NUTRIFIN I THINK THE FISH SHOP TOLD ME TO USE IT THERE USUALLY PRETTY GOOD AS FOR MY TANK IT IS A FLUVAL DUO DEEP 120 LITRES SHOULD SEE IT IF YOU GOGGLE IMAGE IT THE FISH I HAVE INSIDE ARE TROPICAL 4 BLACK WIDOW TETRAS 3 RUMMY NOSED TETRAS 3 CARDINAL TETRAS PLEASE FORGIVE ME BUT I DONT KNOW HOW MANY BRISTLENOSED CATFISH I HAVE AS THEY KEEP MULTIPLYING THERE COULD PROBALY BE BETWEEN TWENTY TO THIRTY IN THERE ITS FILTERED WITH A FLUVAL 3 PLUS SUBSTRATE IS SAND FEW PLANTS SORRY COULDNT TELL YOU WHAT THEY WERE FEW PLASTIC ONES ASWELL (SHAME ON ME) BOGWOOD LAVA ROCKS TERRECOTA PLANT POT AND A LANTERN LIGHTS ARE ON 10 HOURS A DAY BETWEEN 13.00 AND 22.00 I USED TO CLEAN OUT EVERY TWO WEEKS BEEN FINE FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS TAKE OUT BOUT 25% VACUM THE SAND CLEAN THE MEDIA IN THE WATER CHANGE MEDIA EVERY MONTH OR TWO DONT HAVE A CHEMICAL TESTER SO WOULDNT HAVE A CLUE ABOUT THE CHEMICALS INSIDE I LIVE IN THE COUNTRY AND THE WATER QUALITY OUT OF THE TAP IS PRETTY GOOD CHEERS MATE "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: If it's a green cloud, then it's usually an algae bloom. A white cloud is usually a bacterial bloom, oftentimes just the nitrifying bacteria blooming in response to a mini-cycle caused by over cleaning or changing the filter media. See my blog for my article on "Filter Cleaning & Maintenance" so you do not repeat this common mistake. Proper filter maintenance is much more critical on overstocked tanks and new set ups. DO NOT use chemical treatments as they will usually just make things worse... as you've seen. I did a quick Google on "Aqua Clear" and is this what you used? http://www.kwzone.com/products/links/science.htm <http://www.kwzone.com/products/links/science.htm> (second product down on the left side?) That's not even for an algae bloom and none the less, you shouldn't be using that stuff (aka crap) or their Algae Clear (aka crap) in your tank either. Chemicals might clear things up temporarily but if you don't fix the root cause, then it's just going to turn your tank into a chemical waste dump suitable for listing on the EPA Superfund Site list. ;-) Usually algae blooms are caused by too many nutrients in the water (nitrogenous compounds, phosphates, etc.) and too much light. You can reduce the lighting period and do more frequent PWC's, gravel vacuuming and proper filter cleaning to reduce the nutrients in the water column. Tell us more about your tank. Size (never mind, I saw 120 L = 35G), fish and numbers of each, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness levels, your PWC (partial water change) schedule prior to this issue, etc. What kind of substrate? Are you vacuuming your substrate good with each PWC? Do you have any live plants? Any thing and every thing about your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of rob_white18 Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water please somebody help me i have a tropical fish tank housing mostly bristlenosed catfish few tetra so on the problem is my water has all of a sudden gone cloudy it also has a green twinge to it the fish are perfectly happy it just makes the tank look awful ive been trying to remedy the problem for months now ive tried aqua clear which worked then just made it worse now im on water changes weekly and after changing a massive 50% water which i know i should nt the problem got better for about 24 hours then within 72 hours it was back to the same cloudy mess i had to start with im contemplating starting a fresh please somebody help thanks oh by the way my tank holds 120 litres No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27034	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: New Member: Good sources of online info

You might check out www.WetWebMedia.com -Mike Hello, I just joined I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on a couple of good sights about Marine Aquariums. I've had a freshwater tank for 3 years now, and I want to change over to Saltwater.(Dont worry, found a home for the freshwater creatures). Looking for advice and information on the best way to start up, and some of the more resilient animals. More interested in the Inverts than fish, but want both. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: mbajorek02 <mbajorek02@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 3:51 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member: Good sources of online info Hello, I just joined I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on a couple of good sights about Marine Aquariums. I've had a freshwater tank for 3 years now, and I want to change over to Saltwater.(Dont worry, found a home for the freshwater creatures). Looking for advice and information on the best way to start up, and some of the more resilient animals. More interested in the Inverts than fish, but want both. Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27035	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up

Lenny, Thank you for taking the time to run this down and get all the nitty gritty details! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 7:19 pm Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up More late breaking news about Bio-Spira... I wonder if it's going to work as well as the original product or if it's ust going to another bacteria-in-a-bottle that doesn't work. It could be hy they are releasing it under Tetra's label since Tetra will pretty much ell anything in a bottle... look at their Easy Balance with Nitraban roduct which is pure JUNK!!! Here is the reply I got from Marineland... Hello, We are relaunching bio-spira. It is in a new package and reformulated. It will no longer need to be refrigerated, and hopefully, soon on every tore shelf across the nation. The freshwater version will be branded Tetra nd called start right, while the saltwater version will be branded Instant cean and still be called Bio-Spira. They held off on adding it to the webpage because of this change. egards, obert Huber nited Pet Group, Aquatics Div. enior Consumer Relations Specialist obert.Huber@... -800-526-0650 ext. 6126 ----Original Message----- rom: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] ent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:29 AM o: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' ubject: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Mike, I was shocked when I saw your post so I did some Googling and it looks like he rumor may be partially correct. http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com was arrying Bio-Spira up until recently but now it's no longer on their website ither. When I looked at http://www.Marineland.com, there's no mention of io-Spira either. WTF!! Then I called Marineland's 800 number and found out some interesting stuff. or the past couple of years, Marineland has been working on a way to bottle io-Spira so it did not have to be refrigerated, since the refrigeration spect was a big problem getting Bio-Spira into ALL pet stores and/or elling it easily online. According to the person I spoke to, there is still some of the "old" product vailable at some retailers and online sources but he could not give me any f the online sources because his computer was acting up. The new arineland website still has the store locator function and he suggested ooking for a retailer in the area and contacting them to see if any have or ight have access to some of the remaining inventory of the old Bio-Spira. It will be interesting to see how they package it and their explanation as o why it doesn't have to be refrigerated since the big explanation for why io-Spira worked all along and why all of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle roducts didn't work was because it was refrigerated and the bacteria were ept in hibernation. The room temperature stuff could not keep the bacteria live if there ever was live bacteria in the room temp bottles in the first lace. He also said that they just revamped their website and did not put Bio-Spira n it yet since the new product isn't available yet and they have shipped heir final inventory of the old product. I told him they should put a ress release or something on a link to Bio-Spira on their website so people ill know, otherwise the internet rumor mill will have all kinds of isinformation out there in a matter of minutes. Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On ehalf Of Deenerz@... ent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 4:35 AM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Sissy, I heard a new batch has not been made in about two years and none is cheduled to be made at this time. I heard a rumor that Dr. Fosters and mith might have an alternative but have not had a chance to check myself. -Mike If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed nstantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying acteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to stablish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if -----Original Message----- rom: Sissy Sathre <ssathre@... <mailto:ssathre%40suddenlink.net> o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ent: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:31 am ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi Lisa, a 50 gallon is a perfect size aquarium for a beginner. Much larger argin for mistakes than smaller tanks. I suggest going to : ttp://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm> ou will find "Good" information there from very experienced aquariest. ou'll find different ways of filtering your new aquarium from under ground ilters, invented in the 1950's to supply oxygen to your bacteria ed-creating a biological balance, to the newest methods of we/dry filters, io-wheels,other hang on filters, canister filters and denitrification ilters. f you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed nstantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying acteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to stablish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if you call arineland and tell them you cant find it in your area, they will send it to ou Free overnight shipping and all. It has a short shelf life and has to be eep cool,so many stores dont carry it. I am the Marineland service rep. in est-Tx. They have sent it to me to give out before for free ! Marineland is he manufacture of commercial lobster tanks, and MARS systems, the wall nites you see in Wal-marts and they manufacture aquariums and aquarium upplies including the Bio-wheel filters. ou can of coarse cycle the fishless way,and speed the process of the itrogen cycle. he best way in my opinion is to get a hand full of gravel from a healthy xisting aquarium, or exchange bio-wheels from a existing filter. I do both nd start my clients tanks out with hardy fish in 24 hours. I only add a few ish to feed the bacteria bed, then make sure no mini cycle is taking place, nd then add a few more every couple weeks until is at capacity for the size he fish will grow. hope this helps! Sissy Sathre BA Aquariums By Sissy ww.aquariumsbysissy.com ---- Original Message ----- rom: Lisa o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:37 PM ubject: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Hi all. 'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the help I an get. t will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would be ble to keep with them. Either that or some angels. So where do I start? have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and various pecies of fish. But they don't have a great deal of information. I figured t would be great to talk to people with experience. First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? How do I get the right water conditions? o virus found in this outgoing message. hecked by AVG. ersion: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 :14 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. hecked by AVG. ersion: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 4/3/2008 :36 PM ----------------------------------- Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27036	From: Jenn	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Blasted Phosphates

I just wanted to let everyone know about the "situation" that I had been experiencing. I started losing a fish a week but the water was testing fine. I had my tap water tested and found that there are high levels of phosphates in it. We never had issues before so I think the water company must have changed the levels in the water. I also know that they are using Chloramines instead/in addition to Chlorine, so make sure your water conditioners take care of both. I used a phosphate remover (little white pellets) in my extra media baskets in both filters for about 6 days and the phosphates are down to .05 ppm so I can relax for now. I think I am going to keep Phosban in the filters as extra media from now on to prevent this from happening again. It also explains why I had a sudden out break of the cyanobacteria. It disappeared after a few days of water changes and treatments. On a sad note, I lost both of my Parkinson's rainbows, a Praecox, an Axelrod's and my female Red Iriam. On a weird level, it didn't affect my loaches and botias at all. How long do you think I should wait to start replacing my poor dead fish?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27037	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: betta question

The problem with sand is that it can trap debris and foul. It is difficult to clean sand. Sand also has a tendency to compact into a very dense mass, which makes it difficult on some plants. However, with a thin layer of san on the bottom, stirred at each water change, and you should be OK. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Walker Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 9:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] betta question So I got a new betta the other day. And I finally brought him the 6 gallon eclipse tank from work we had set up. I was wondering, is it ok to keep these guys on sand? I really want a sand bottom over a gravel bottom. I just dont want to put it in there without seeing if it will work ok or not first. ~Melissa ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27038	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Question on Tank Cloudiness

Hi Guys, I just set up a new 75 gallon rectangular tank. It is currently on day 2 of cycling. For inhabitants I have 5 brazilian sword plants, 2 albino cory's, 3 sterbai cory's, and 12 neon tetra. There are a few pieces of driftwood in the tank also. I have a fluval 4 plus filter for about 50 gallons of water (I am using open airspace for eventual landmasses). Anyway, I have a white sand substrate and the filter spray is spraying over the water through some drift wood for a small waterfall feel. The tank is a little cloudy or rather hazy perhaps on day 2 and I was wondering what was contributing to it and what I can do about it. Ken **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27039	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up

Been thinking on this one. I'm a dog person, not a chemist, but here's something I thought of... Most high-end holistic dog foods contain probiotics (bacteria). They are applied after the food cools to avoid being damaged by heat. Eagle Pack also sells them in a dried powder form to assist with either food transition and fix for upset tummies. The bacteria are in "suspended animation" due to being dried. Maybe they've figured out a way to suspend it similarly so that it is dormant and doesn't require oxygen. A liquid is obviously different but ??? Come to think of it, Septibac for septic systems is available in powder OR liquid...I've never done a pile of research on the efficacy of it but I spray it on my yard in the spring to help digest leftover winter waste after the major spring cleanup and it seems to work... Or (from pet odor control products) maybe they're using encapsulation technology, "wrapping" it with a small amount of oxygen that won't be depleted before the expiration date? Carmen On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Bruce, > > There simply is not a way to have a room temp bottle of live nitrifying > bacteria that would have a shelf life of more than a few days. The science > simply doesn't support it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27040	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: betta question

If you add a couple of MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snails), they'll burrow into the sand while foraging for food and help keep it from getting compacted and they also help with the cleaning duties. Something else live that can be added to smaller tanks that aren't a big impact on the bioload and they don't mass produce as easily as other nuisance snails. You'll need to have alkaline water (pH over 7.0) and feed them calcium rich foods if your water doesn't have enough hardness in it. If you decide to go with a few MTS, there's a list of calcium rich foods that snails will eat here... http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 7:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] betta question The problem with sand is that it can trap debris and foul. It is difficult to clean sand. Sand also has a tendency to compact into a very dense mass, which makes it difficult on some plants. However, with a thin layer of san on the bottom, stirred at each water change, and you should be OK. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Melissa Walker Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 9:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] betta question So I got a new betta the other day. And I finally brought him the 6 gallon eclipse tank from work we had set up. I was wondering, is it ok to keep these guys on sand? I really want a sand bottom over a gravel bottom. I just dont want to put it in there without seeing if it will work ok or not first. ~Melissa No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27041	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question on Tank Cloudiness

It would have been best to fishless cycle your new tank but since you are now stuck with cycling with fish, go to my blog's "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and I have links to a good "Cycling With Fish" article so you can do the proper maintenance and daily testing of ammonia/nitrites and do PWC's as needed to keep both levels low enough to keep your fish from being permanently injured and/or killed but high enough to make sure the tank cycles. 17 fish in a 75G shouldn't cause too many problems but it's still much, much better to fishless cycle so the tank is ready for a full bioload of juvi fish instead of having to add a few at a time, quarantining each batch prior to adding them, etc. It usually takes a few days after adding any new substrate for any "dust" to settle down. Sand can take longer but if your waterfall is making it all the way to the bottom, you'll always have the sand getting disturbed. Make sure you fill up the tank till the water level reaches the lip of the waterfall. This will lessen the effect of the waterfall reaching the bottom of the tank. Since you mention having open airspace for land masses, I'm presuming you will be turning this into a paludarium so you may need to reconfigure your water return for now so it does not turn the sand constantly. You could also add a micro-fiber filter pad which will help filter out the smaller particles out of the water column. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 8:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question on Tank Cloudiness Hi Guys, I just set up a new 75 gallon rectangular tank. It is currently on day 2 of cycling. For inhabitants I have 5 brazilian sword plants, 2 albino cory's, 3 sterbai cory's, and 12 neon tetra. There are a few pieces of driftwood in the tank also. I have a fluval 4 plus filter for about 50 gallons of water (I am using open airspace for eventual landmasses). Anyway, I have a white sand substrate and the filter spray is spraying over the water through some drift wood for a small waterfall feel. The tank is a little cloudy or rather hazy perhaps on day 2 and I was wondering what was contributing to it and what I can do about it. Ken No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27042	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up

Carmen, I'm not sure about these so-called digestive aid bacteria since I've never done any research or reading about them (I'm down here in Southern Louisiana where we put hot sauce and lots of spices on just about everything so I've never needed any added digestive bacteria.. lol) and whether they will "live" outside of their normal environment (your intestines) but I do know that nitrifying bacteria need ammonia and oxygen to live. I know some bacteria will live in a dry environment and then become active under the right conditions (aka yeast) and nitrifying bacteria are an airborne bacteria in nature but there's a big difference between airborne bacteria and packaged products. In airborne conditions, there's just the right amount of moisture, plenty of O2 and there's an ammonia source from the nitrogen cycle that exists in all of nature. It took Marineland ten years to develop the original Bio-Spira and their patent will be expiring soon.. I'm guessing in the next couple of years since the product came out in 2002 so it's at least six years old and most patents are only good for ten years. They were never really able to get it introduced to the mass marketplace due to the cost and other inhibiting factors associated with keeping it refrigerated during shipping and at retail levels. I would imagine that over the past ten years, while Bio-Spira held the patent on the hibernation method of keeping the nitrifying bacteria "alive" throughout the shipping and distribution process, all of the other so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle companies would have been figuring out a way to keep theirs alive without the need for refrigeration and NONE of them have done so... so I'm not sure how Marineland could have finally figured out a way to do it but I guess anything is possible so I'll wait and see some published reports from hobbyists and/or peer reviewed studies to come out. Here's a long interview with Dr. Timothy Hovenac, the lead scientist that helped develop Bio-Spira... http://aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=36 The fact that they are releasing the "new" Bio-Spira under Tetra's brand name makes me think it will just be another bottle of JUNK that they try to sell unsuspecting newbies. Of course, Bio-Spira did learn it was not just the nitrosomonas bacteria but the nitrospira and nitrosospira bacteria that started the nitrogen cycle so maybe, just maybe, if they do have some of these proper bacteria in a bottle, it might work but I'm very, very skeptical at this point. Why would they not use their own name? They already have really good brand recognition, with many hobbyists, as the only product that works as advertised so I'm not sure why they'd give that up... haven't they ever heard of "New Coke"? I'd like to see what Dr. Timothy Hovenac has to say about the new formula of Bio-Spira. I know the other so-called bacteria-in-a-bottles do not work. For example, with the original Bio-Spira, you could add it one day and then start adding ammonia at up to 5ppm the next day and the tank would "cycle" properly (ammonia>nitrite>nitrate). I've read many posts from hobbyists who tried this experiment with the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products and NOTHING happened to the added ammonia the next day because there simply were NO live bacteria in the bottles. Eventually the tank would cycle but that would happen due to the airborne nitrifying bacteria eventually inhabiting the tank and growing large colonies. Most of the other bacteria-in-a-bottles did not even have the proper nitrifying bacteria. Hey... now that's something we could do. Bottle air and sell it! Just kidding of course since the bottled air would eventually run out of O2 and ammonia as the nitrifying bacteria live and they would eventually die off. Hey, wait a minute.... we could sell bottles of air that aren't sealed so the nitrifying bacteria have a constant supply of fresh air and suspended ammonia so they would live. Or we could sell bottled air that has to be kept refrigerated to put the nitrifying bacteria into hibernation. Oh well.. I don't have the patent yet so I'm making this special licensing offer to anyone else. You are welcome to use my idea of selling "GoldLenny's 100% Natural Air" complete with suspended nitrifying bacteria, oxygen and ammonia for use in jump starting the nitrogen cycle in aquariums. I do want a 5% royalty though! ;-) I guess this belongs more on my Rants & Raves blog. LOL On a side note, since I don't have 5-10 empty 10G tanks sitting around, maybe someone out here can go out and buy a bottle of each of the current so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle products and try this simple experiment. Set up the tanks running with a filter, add the product, wait the prescribed time period and then add 5ppm of ammonia and test it the next day to see if any of the ammonia was converted through the nitrogen cycle. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 8:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up Been thinking on this one. I'm a dog person, not a chemist, but here's something I thought of... Most high-end holistic dog foods contain probiotics (bacteria). They are applied after the food cools to avoid being damaged by heat. Eagle Pack also sells them in a dried powder form to assist with either food transition and fix for upset tummies. The bacteria are in "suspended animation" due to being dried. Maybe they've figured out a way to suspend it similarly so that it is dormant and doesn't require oxygen. A liquid is obviously different but ??? Come to think of it, Septibac for septic systems is available in powder OR liquid...I've never done a pile of research on the efficacy of it but I spray it on my yard in the spring to help digest leftover winter waste after the major spring cleanup and it seems to work... Or (from pet odor control products) maybe they're using encapsulation technology, "wrapping" it with a small amount of oxygen that won't be depleted before the expiration date? Carmen On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Bruce, > > There simply is not a way to have a room temp bottle of live > nitrifying bacteria that would have a shelf life of more than a few > days. The science simply doesn't support it. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27043	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up

Carmen, For pet and human bacteria supplements the bacteria are typically anaerobic - they don't need oxygen to survive. I'm not so sure about septic bacteria, but it seems to me there wouldn't be that much aeration in the tank, so I'd guess it is also anaerobic. From what I understand, aquarium bacteria is supposed to be aerobic since O2 is required for oxidizing nitrite to nitrate. What I don't understand is the difference between the standard Nitrosomonas/Nitrobacter vs. Bio-Spira which contains NitroSpira. Nitrobacter and NitroSpira basically do the same job (convert nitrite->nitrate), the only difference I can find is that NitroSpira grows slower and tends to be the nitrite oxidizing bacteria in natural samples more often than Nitrobacter. Nitrospira is slowed by high ammonia levels, which Nitrosomonas is needed to handle. AFAIK, the only bacteria in Bio-spira is nitrosomonas (someone please correct me if I'm wrong here). -Lana > > Or (from pet odor control products) maybe they're using encapsulation > technology, "wrapping" it with a small amount of oxygen that won't be > depleted before the expiration date? > > Carmen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27044	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up

AUGH. :) I meant "the only bacteria in Bio-spira is nitrospira, so it is missing nitrosomonas" -Lana > AFAIK, the only bacteria in Bio-spira is nitrosomonas (someone please > correct me if I'm wrong here). > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up

Actually, the original Bio-Spira had active strains of Nitrosomonas, Nitrospira and Nitrosospira. It was these latter two that set Bio-Spira apart... well that and the fact that it was kept refrigerated to keep the bacteria in hibernation so they'd live in the package until used. Read that long interview with Dr. Hovenac that I linked to in my previous post. I really am waiting to see how Marineland or Tetra explains that this "new" product will work and keep the bacteria alive on the shelf. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up AUGH. :) I meant "the only bacteria in Bio-spira is nitrospira, so it is missing nitrosomonas" -Lana > AFAIK, the only bacteria in Bio-spira is nitrosomonas (someone please > correct me if I'm wrong here). > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27046	From: Judith Downing	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question on Tank Cloudiness

Just for comparison, I have a 50 g tank with two Fluvall 4 + filters in it. I don't think your single one is enough. I also have tons of live plants. Judy "Hi Guys, I just set up a new 75 gallon rectangular tank. It is currently on day 2 of cycling. For inhabitants I have 5 brazilian sword plants, 2 albino cory's, 3 sterbai cory's, and 12 neon tetra. There are a few pieces of driftwood in the tank also. I have a fluval 4 plus filter for about 50 gallons of water ......" Ken [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27047	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: Blasted Phosphates

Hi Jenn, How are your test results for your nitrogen cycle? That will be the main factor to determine whether you can add more fish. If your treatments of the Cyanobacteria did not harm your biofiltration, then you should be able to add a few fish at a time to build up the nitrifying bacteria colonies again. Make sure you quarantine them first. You should check with your water utility. They would not do anything to increase the phosphates. If your source water is from a reservoir or other natural source, it could just be fertilizer runoff from rains, melting snow, etc. This is why I recommend testing your source water a couple of times a year to see what it's like. I have an article on my blog for finding your baseline levels for tap/source water. You can't base it right out the tap as the utility companies often add buffers which might raise the pH but then as the buffers outgas, the pH might come down. You could have a high CO2 level out the tap which would lower the pH but then as the CO2 outgases, the pH could rise. Read over my article. In your case, you should have the phosphate levels tested on a regular basis as well or get your own phosphate test kit in addition to the normal test kits like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 4:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Blasted Phosphates I just wanted to let everyone know about the "situation" that I had been experiencing. I started losing a fish a week but the water was testing fine. I had my tap water tested and found that there are high levels of phosphates in it. We never had issues before so I think the water company must have changed the levels in the water. I also know that they are using Chloramines instead/in addition to Chlorine, so make sure your water conditioners take care of both. I used a phosphate remover (little white pellets) in my extra media baskets in both filters for about 6 days and the phosphates are down to .05 ppm so I can relax for now. I think I am going to keep Phosban in the filters as extra media from now on to prevent this from happening again. It also explains why I had a sudden out break of the cyanobacteria. It disappeared after a few days of water changes and treatments. On a sad note, I lost both of my Parkinson's rainbows, a Praecox, an Axelrod's and my female Red Iriam. On a weird level, it didn't affect my loaches and botias at all. How long do you think I should wait to start replacing my poor dead fish? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27048	From: starla sersland	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: cloudy water,

my 55 did this as well, it could be a bacteria bloom, they way that worked great ! for me,1st do a 20% water change, then I put a dark colored sheet over the tank for 2 days, (no feeding or peeking !! ) this will usually clear it up !! another thing I did was bouight this red drop stuff called filter aide, it helps get all the really fine matter out, without expesive use of a diatom filter, try these things !! let us know what works, and how its going !! ~ starla ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27049	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: test kits

I am currently using a API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I need to replace it. Some have recommended the API kit and at the same time recommended expiration dates on the test solutions. I don't see an expiration date on any of my test solution. What brand of kit has expiration dates and where can I get it? Thanks! Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27050	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Return to the Amazon

Right now I am watching, on my local PBS station, Jean-Michel Cousteau: Ocean Adventures, Return to the Amazon. Check your local listings as I see it listed for the next 2 weeks on a number of PBS stations, not all of which I can receive, both analog and high def (I'm watching in analog right now). Most of the HD showings are on the alternate HD channels. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27051	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: test kits

Hach, LaMotte, Aqua-Tru all have expiration dates. I am sure there are others that do as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] test kits I am currently using a API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I need to replace it. Some have recommended the API kit and at the same time recommended expiration dates on the test solutions. I don't see an expiration date on any of my test solution. What brand of kit has expiration dates and where can I get it? Thanks! Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27052	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: test kits

API has codes that let you know the production date. Check out this page for details. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] test kits I am currently using a API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I need to replace it. Some have recommended the API kit and at the same time recommended expiration dates on the test solutions. I don't see an expiration date on any of my test solution. What brand of kit has expiration dates and where can I get it? Thanks! Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27053	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water,

Starla, Be careful about adding the various "stuff" that the pet stores try to push on us. Just because it might do what it says, doesn't mean it's safe or good for our fish. For example, dishwashing detergent is fine for cleaning my dishes but I don't want to breathe it, eat it or soak in it. Whenever you add something to your tank, your fish have to breathe it, eat it and soak in it. That particle coagulant might work but it works by making the particles "sticky" so they'll get caught by your filters but the fish end up with it coating their gills, eating it with their food and absorbing it via osmoregulation until you do enough PWC's to get it out of the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of starla sersland Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 4:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water, my 55 did this as well, it could be a bacteria bloom, they way that worked great ! for me,1st do a 20% water change, then I put a dark colored sheet over the tank for 2 days, (no feeding or peeking !! ) this will usually clear it up !! another thing I did was bouight this red drop stuff called filter aide, it helps get all the really fine matter out, without expesive use of a diatom filter, try these things !! let us know what works, and how its going !! ~ starla _ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27054	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: test kits

Thanks Lenny. I had noticed the Lot No. on all of my test solutions. This solved the problem. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 5, 2008 5:00:55 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] test kits API has codes that let you know the production date. Check out this page for details. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] test kits I am currently using a API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I need to replace it. Some have recommended the API kit and at the same time recommended expiration dates on the test solutions. I don't see an expiration date on any of my test solution. What brand of kit has expiration dates and where can I get it? Thanks! Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��..���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27055	From: Shelley Kate Coffman	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: New 50gal freshwater set up

Just wanted to let you know, I do a 20% water change about 1-2 times a month, depending on which tank. My angels seem to like every other week, my community tank (Bala,tetra,daneos and platies) once a month is sufficient. I got tired of carrying water so I bought one of the cheap gravel siphon kit,; about $7, went to Lowes, got about 20 ft of the same size hose and a connector. I run the water right out the door and it cost a little less than 13 bucks. I still tote water to refill but not a big deal since it is a one way trip. Good luck!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi all. > I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the > help I can get. > It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. > > I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. > > I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would > be able to keep with them. > > Either that or some angels. > > So where do I start? > I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and > various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of > information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with > experience. > > First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? > > How do I get the right water conditions? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27056	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/5/2008
Subject: Re: New 50gal freshwater set up

You should be doing 10-25% water changes per week depending on the tank and the fish in it. There are fish, such as _Julidochromis_ spp. That do not like water changes, so they would get about a 5% change weekly at a minimum, and more often if I had the time while I was keeping them. When you do water changes, you not only remove nitrates, the end product of the nitrogen cycle in an aquarium, but you remove Dissolved Organic Carbons (DOC) and pheromones, and hormones, as well as other compound that are not measured for, along with the water, which is generally good for the fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shelley Kate Coffman Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 7:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New 50gal freshwater set up Just wanted to let you know, I do a 20% water change about 1-2 times a month, depending on which tank. My angels seem to like every other week, my community tank (Bala,tetra,daneos and platies) once a month is sufficient. I got tired of carrying water so I bought one of the cheap gravel siphon kit,; about $7, went to Lowes, got about 20 ft of the same size hose and a connector. I run the water right out the door and it cost a little less than 13 bucks. I still tote water to refill but not a big deal since it is a one way trip. Good luck!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi all. > I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the > help I can get. > It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller. > > I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin. > > I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would > be able to keep with them. > > Either that or some angels. > > So where do I start? > I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and > various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of > information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with > experience. > > First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change? > > How do I get the right water conditions? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27057	From: Lisa	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Help with identifying guppy colour strain

Hi everone again. I saw some lovely guppies in the pet store today, and was wondering if anyone could help with finding out what colour it was classed as. It seemed to be a Veil tail or a round tail. The colour of the body was a creamy/white, and the tail was a pale yellow. Does anyone know what colour type this would be? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27058	From: Lisa	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Finally found some guppies so I have a question.

Hello all. I finally found a local pet shop that sells guppies and platies. Yay!!! Right. So now the question becomes this. I have a 12 inch unheated, and unfiltered tank. Which currently is home to a single male betta. I understand from the books on freshwater fish that I have, that guppies and platies are capable of surviving in a room temp tank. When Hugo dies. I am considering having some guppies or platies 1 fish per square inch of tank right? So then does that then mean, I can have 6 of either guppies or platies in a 12 inch unheated tank? Your advice would be greatly apriciated. Thanks. Lisa (In Australia)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27059	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: Finally found some guppies so I have a question.

Hello Lisa, To start with, I don't know where you came up with the idea that you can have one (1) fish per square inch of tank. Any aquarium literature you might have read to this effect is totally erroneous, unless these fish were 1/4" fry and the tank was a (very) temporary vessel for them. Let's address the tank itself (a 12" tank) which, going by the size chart of All-Glass Aquarium Company's catalog would be a 2 1/2 gallon 9.46 liters) capacity tank, listed roughly as 12" x 6" x 8". Not even going by the old and obsolete rule of 1" of fish per gallon for smaller fish of this size (which might allow you a pair of Guppies in this tank), a more accurate rule written by Dr. William T. Innes many years ago stated; "For fish the size of grown pairs of Guppies, 3 square inches of air surface re fish." He additionally wrote; "Fishes like grown Swordtails, large Platies, etc., need about 8 square inches per fish (4 x 2 inches, or equivilent)." You need to keep in mind, which is obviously seen upon looking at the two different fish (Guppies and Platies), that Platies are so much more deeper-bodied than Guppies and probably have 3 times the bulk in body mass as Guppies do. I've kept guppies in unheated tanks 60 years ago, but as for today's Fancy Guppies, I can't vouch for their hardiness and would tend to dissuade you from doing so. Likewise, those earlier Swordtails (especially the Green strain) which were closer to their wild counterparts were etremely tolerant to coolor waters since the speices originates in the higher elevations in their Mexican streams, but Platies come from the lowlands in Central America where the temperatures are somewhat higher. Then too, the hybrid strains are inherantly not as hardy. I would add that in our hybrid Swordtails, the Blood Red strain is not nearly as Hardy as the Brick Red, and it goes right along that Blood Red Platies are not one of the stronger strains either. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hello all. > > I finally found a local pet shop that sells guppies and platies. > Yay!!! > Right. So now the question becomes this. > > I have a 12 inch unheated, and unfiltered tank. Which currently is > home to a single male betta. > I understand from the books on freshwater fish that I have, that > guppies and platies are capable of surviving in a room temp tank. > > When Hugo dies. I am considering having some guppies or platies > > 1 fish per square inch of tank right? > So then does that then mean, I can have 6 of either guppies or > platies in a 12 inch unheated tank? > > Your advice would be greatly apriciated. > Thanks. > > Lisa (In Australia) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27060	From: Winbabyswife	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: Finally found some guppies so I have a question.

She has a Betta. Some books say that for Bettas, which is why Bettas are treated soo cruelly. I ran into that when I first started keeping Bettas. It refers to Bettas as being for decoration only and states that they can live in flower vases. Horrible care sheets for Bettas are out there. I do have a male Betta in a 3 gallon biocube, and have the filtration set to low. He loves it and is doing very well in that small space, but he has filtration, and a heater. I used to keep females, who lived for over 2 years. I had 5 females in a 10 gallon and then moved them into a community tank (30 gallon) with barbs, and a clown loach, and raspboros (sp?). Lisa for you questions on guppies. They require a heater, filtration, and I would not put them in anything less than a 10 gallon. I love the fancy tail guppies. I am probably wrong in telling you this, but if you stick to the guppies, you can put 10 of them in a 10 gallon without any troubles. Make sure you get males only.....otherwise you will have 50 in no time. Same with Platy's, one sex or the other. Also I am not sure but I have heard that he Platy will breed with the Guppy. If someone else knows this they can let the rest of us know? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hello Lisa, To start with, I don't know where you came up with the > idea that you can have one (1) fish per square inch of tank. Any > aquarium literature you might have read to this effect is totally > erroneous, unless these fish were 1/4" fry and the tank

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27061	From: bmp	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Dazed corydoras

This afternoon I took advantage of some quiet in the house to experiment with our digital camera, photographin some of our fish. After a while, I realized that one of my corys (C. trilineatus, if you wondered) was on its side near the front of the tank. I had not photographed it at all, not intentionally, but it appeared to be nearly dead. It was breathing slightly. I was surprised. I left it alone and, sure enough, some minutes later, it was alert again and in the back of the tank, revived. It was moving in a more skittery fashion than usual. Was it temporarily stunned by the flash, perhaps? Considering I never aimed the camera at it, I didn't expect this at all. The fish which I did photograph, including a group of corys in another tank, did not change their behavior or appearance at all. Maybe I have one shy cory! Beverly Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27062	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dazed corydoras

I would keep an eye on this fellow for at least the next few days to ensure that he is OK. This is not normal behavior. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bmp Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 8:10 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dazed corydoras This afternoon I took advantage of some quiet in the house to experiment with our digital camera, photographin some of our fish. After a while, I realized that one of my corys (C. trilineatus, if you wondered) was on its side near the front of the tank. I had not photographed it at all, not intentionally, but it appeared to be nearly dead. It was breathing slightly. I was surprised. I left it alone and, sure enough, some minutes later, it was alert again and in the back of the tank, revived. It was moving in a more skittery fashion than usual. Was it temporarily stunned by the flash, perhaps? Considering I never aimed the camera at it, I didn't expect this at all. The fish which I did photograph, including a group of corys in another tank, did not change their behavior or appearance at all. Maybe I have one shy cory! Beverly Peace, please!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27063	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: novice question

I have a new 54 gallon tank that has been up and running since March 4 with lots of plants and some fish....I need to do a partial water change but I'm a little wary.....I have an Eheim classic filter....do I just turn it off while I'm doing the water change; clean, check and empty the water from the filter also? What about the heater? If the water level goes down on the heater, will it harm it? Of course, I'll turn it off while I'm changing the water. What about the water I need to add back in? I'm on a private well and my water is fine, but I'm concerned about the temperature of the added water - should I at least draw some water a day before the water change to let it get to room temperature? One more question - how many inches from the top of the aquarium is the usual depth for the spray bar to be mounted on the side? Sorry if these seem like silly concerns, but I'm sure once I do the water changes a couple of times it'll be "no big deal"! Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27064	From: Andreas	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: novice question

do about 20-30% water change yes the water should not be ice cold, room temp is ok leave the filter be, the most important thing in your aquarium are the bacteria that live in the filter, never rinse the filter with new watrer always use aquarium water or you will kill the bacteria. make sure the filter intkae sdtays below water and you can ujst leave it running while you change the water. the height of the spary bar is not very important as long at it provides good ciruclation Andreas On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 9:00 PM, shari rivenburg <hillfarm@...> wrote: > I have a new 54 gallon tank that has been up and running since March 4 > with lots of plants and some fish....I need to do a partial water change > but I'm a little wary.....I have an Eheim classic filter....do I just > turn it off while I'm doing the water change; clean, check and empty the > water from the filter also? What about the heater? If the water level > goes down on the heater, will it harm it? Of course, I'll turn it off > while I'm changing the water. What about the water I need to add back > in? I'm on a private well and my water is fine, but I'm concerned about > the temperature of the added water - should I at least draw some water a > day before the water change to let it get to room temperature? One more > question - how many inches from the top of the aquarium is the usual > depth for the spray bar to be mounted on the side? Sorry if these seem > like silly concerns, but I'm sure once I do the water changes a couple > of times it'll be "no big deal"! > > Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me! > > Shari > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27065	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dazed corydoras

More likely that the flash startled it and it darted head first into something which then left it in a stunned condition. Luckily it recovered but it may still be hearing ringing in its ears... umm.. make that it's lateral line. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bmp Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:10 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dazed corydoras This afternoon I took advantage of some quiet in the house to experiment with our digital camera, photographin some of our fish. After a while, I realized that one of my corys (C. trilineatus, if you wondered) was on its side near the front of the tank. I had not photographed it at all, not intentionally, but it appeared to be nearly dead. It was breathing slightly. I was surprised. I left it alone and, sure enough, some minutes later, it was alert again and in the back of the tank, revived. It was moving in a more skittery fashion than usual. Was it temporarily stunned by the flash, perhaps? Considering I never aimed the camera at it, I didn't expect this at all. The fish which I did photograph, including a group of corys in another tank, did not change their behavior or appearance at all. Maybe I have one shy cory! Beverly No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.7/1361 - Release Date: 4/5/2008 7:53 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27066	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: novice question

Also turn the heater off 15 minutes before you lower the water level. Regarding temp, I mix hot and cold from the faucet (running into my Python) over the tank thermometer until the temp is EXACTLY the same as the tank. No waiting that way! You can also turn the filter off for the hour or so it will take you to do the water change. Don’t drain it any more than it drains itself. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 9:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] novice question do about 20-30% water change yes the water should not be ice cold, room temp is ok leave the filter be, the most important thing in your aquarium are the bacteria that live in the filter, never rinse the filter with new watrer always use aquarium water or you will kill the bacteria. make sure the filter intkae sdtays below water and you can ujst leave it running while you change the water. the height of the spary bar is not very important as long at it provides good ciruclation Andreas On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 9:00 PM, shari rivenburg <hillfarm@hughes. <mailto:hillfarm%40hughes.net> net> wrote: > I have a new 54 gallon tank that has been up and running since March 4 > with lots of plants and some fish....I need to do a partial water change > but I'm a little wary.....I have an Eheim classic filter....do I just > turn it off while I'm doing the water change; clean, check and empty the > water from the filter also? What about the heater? If the water level > goes down on the heater, will it harm it? Of course, I'll turn it off > while I'm changing the water. What about the water I need to add back > in? I'm on a private well and my water is fine, but I'm concerned about > the temperature of the added water - should I at least draw some water a > day before the water change to let it get to room temperature? One more > question - how many inches from the top of the aquarium is the usual > depth for the spray bar to be mounted on the side? Sorry if these seem > like silly concerns, but I'm sure once I do the water changes a couple > of times it'll be "no big deal"! > > Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me! > > Shari > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27067	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: novice question

Shari, You should do at least a 10% water change weekly, more if warranted by nitrate levels. You can leave the filter running, as the intake for your filter should be low in the tank, and you will not be changing enough water to come anywhere near the intake. You can leave the heater on--the limited amount of time the water level will be blow the thermostat will be minimal and not affect the heater. The water itself that is added to the tank should be at least room temperature, if not close to the actual temperature of the tank water. You should add your water conditioner (and there are different opinions about this) just prior to adding the fresh tap water in an amount equal to the amount of water you are adding. Oh, I see you have a well, probably no water conditioner needed. The mounting position of the spray bar depends on what you wish to accomplish with it. The further away from the water surface, the more agitation is produced at the surface and a greater gaseous exchange occurs. If the bar is at the water level, or below, you get more water movement, and, it is much more quiet. Keep an eye on the flow of the filter return. When it starts to be reduced, you know it is time to clean the filter. Until then, just let the filter be. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] novice question I have a new 54 gallon tank that has been up and running since March 4 with lots of plants and some fish....I need to do a partial water change but I'm a little wary.....I have an Eheim classic filter....do I just turn it off while I'm doing the water change; clean, check and empty the water from the filter also? What about the heater? If the water level goes down on the heater, will it harm it? Of course, I'll turn it off while I'm changing the water. What about the water I need to add back in? I'm on a private well and my water is fine, but I'm concerned about the temperature of the added water - should I at least draw some water a day before the water change to let it get to room temperature? One more question - how many inches from the top of the aquarium is the usual depth for the spray bar to be mounted on the side? Sorry if these seem like silly concerns, but I'm sure once I do the water changes a couple of times it'll be "no big deal"! Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me! Shari ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27068	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: novice question

Since the intakes to both filters on my 65G are below the 25% PWC mark, I just leave them both running. In fact, I have the intake to my canister filter almost to the bottom of the tank and the intake to my Bio-Wheel HOB up near the top so if I do more than 25%, the Bio-Wheel will start sucking air which lets me know I've reached the 25% mark. I use a Python Water Change System and as soon as I start refilling the tank and the water level rises to cover up the intake, it starts sucking water again so the filter media in the reservoir stays wet and the Bio-Wheel is only out of the water flow for a few minutes at most. I usually do filter maintenance before doing the PWC since the canister filter tubing gets a buildup of algae and when I restart it, some becomes dislodged and squirts out into the tank. My goldfish go crazy trying to gobble it all up but whatever they miss, I get with the gravel siphon during the PWC. I pretty much know where to put the hot and cold water faucets to make the water the right temp as it refills the tank but I'll just stick my finger under the flow out of the Python and out of the filter return flow and if they feel the same or close enough, I leave it alone or I might nudge the cold up or down to adjust it. Your finger should be able to tell the difference of even 1F or 2F and if you are only doing a 25% PWC and the water is only off by 2F, it will only change the tank temp by 0.25F which is negligible. It could be off by 5F and would only change the tank temp 1.25F for a short period of time which is also a negligible figure for the fish. My heaters are all submersible so they are lower than the 25% mark on my tropical tanks anyhow so I've never worried about them during a PWC. The spray bar can be mounted high or low or in the middle. It's up to the user and their needs. For people with planted tanks where they are injecting CO2, they don't want a lot of surface agitation as that would outgas the CO2 so they would be more likely to mount the returning water way below the surface. If you don't have CO2 injection, then you want to create some surface agitation which will allow for better gas exchange at the surface. It doesn't have to actually cause a splash. I have my spray bar on one end of my 65G about an inch below the water line but I have it spraying slightly up so it still creates plenty of surface agitation. My Bio-Wheel HOB does waterfall back into the tank on the other end so it does create a lot of splash. Donna, Why does it take you an hour to do a PWC with a Python? I do my weekly 25% PWC on my 65G in about 15 minutes and that includes vacuuming the gravel. Back to all readers... As far as leaving a filter system off for extended periods of time, it's not a good thing. If the power is off for more than an hour or two, it would be best to dump the filter reservoir water and rinse the filter media in dechlored water before starting it back up. Nitrifying bacteria are aerobic and need lots of O2 so if a filter system is off for more than an hour or two, the bacteria start to die off and the water in the reservoir could become toxic, so you don't want it pumping into your tank. If you are ever away from home and you find out your power was out for an extended period of time but came back on while you were gone, it would be a good idea to do filter maintenance and at least a 25% PWC to help dilute any pollution that got into the tank. My blog has a good article on proper "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 8:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] novice question I have a new 54 gallon tank that has been up and running since March 4 with lots of plants and some fish....I need to do a partial water change but I'm a little wary.....I have an Eheim classic filter....do I just turn it off while I'm doing the water change; clean, check and empty the water from the filter also? What about the heater? If the water level goes down on the heater, will it harm it? Of course, I'll turn it off while I'm changing the water. What about the water I need to add back in? I'm on a private well and my water is fine, but I'm concerned about the temperature of the added water - should I at least draw some water a day before the water change to let it get to room temperature? One more question - how many inches from the top of the aquarium is the usual depth for the spray bar to be mounted on the side? Sorry if these seem like silly concerns, but I'm sure once I do the water changes a couple of times it'll be "no big deal"! Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me! Shari No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.7/1361 - Release Date: 4/5/2008 7:53 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27069	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/6/2008
Subject: Re: Finally found some guppies so I have a question.

Yes, its understood that Lisa presently has a Betta. I don't think that I quite understand your point though; some books say WHAT for Bettas? I fail to see what you're trying to say. A lone Betta in a 2 1/2 gallon tank is fine (having a 72 sq. inch surface area). Along these same lines, Dr. Innes went on to state: "Labyrinth fishes (Bettas, Paradise, Gouramies) need about half the amount of air surface calculated for other fishes of the same size." To clarify, the rational behind this, as most of us know, is that Anabantoid fishes containing the auxilliary labyrinth breathing apparatus as part of their anatomy can make direct use of atmospheric oxygen. I had to catch myself there, as now with Badis and Dario species also included in this same Family, a blanket statement of Anabantids breathing air can no longer be used, although I'm sure the point is well taken with Bettas. I'll agree that Bettas should not be stuffed into flower vases just for the purpose of decoration. Most often, the recipient of such a gift (and they are often given as gifts) do not know the first thing about fish care. Coupled with that, I don't believe there is any provision to feed the Betta in this situation, as there's little access to the water's surface. This does not even begin to address any filtration (or PWC) issues, which are completely absent with these set-ups and are direly needed more so in some case over others depending on the individual success (or failure) of the subject plant involved. Fortunately, the species will at least tolerate temperatures from 68 o to 90 o (and possibly a bit wider range), even though it may not be in their best comfort at times, since "room temperature" can have a wide meaning. While it would seem that Platies would (could?) breed with Guppies, since they are both Livebearers, I have never heard of such a cross and there may well be some reason why they won't (can't?) interbreed. It has been already established though that guppies will breed with mollies. No need for speculation when it comes to Platies and Swordtails, as we know this is how various color strains of them both were first established. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Winbabyswife" <amy_howell@...> wrote: > > She has a Betta. Some books say that for Bettas, which is why Bettas > are treated soo cruelly. I ran into that when I first started keeping > Bettas. It refers to Bettas as being for decoration only and states > that they can live in flower vases. Horrible care sheets for Bettas > are out there. > > I do have a male Betta in a 3 gallon biocube, and have the filtration > set to low. He loves it and is doing very well in that small space, > but he has filtration, and a heater. I used to keep females, who lived > for over 2 years. I had 5 females in a 10 gallon and then moved them > into a community tank (30 gallon) with barbs, and a clown loach, and > raspboros (sp?). > > Lisa for you questions on guppies. They require a heater, filtration, > and I would not put them in anything less than a 10 gallon. I love the > fancy tail guppies. I am probably wrong in telling you this, but if > you stick to the guppies, you can put 10 of them in a 10 gallon without > any troubles. Make sure you get males only.....otherwise you will have > 50 in no time. Same with Platy's, one sex or the other. Also I am not > sure but I have heard that he Platy will breed with the Guppy. If > someone else knows this they can let the rest of us know? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hello Lisa, To start with, I don't know where you came up with the > > idea that you can have one (1) fish per square inch of tank. Any > > aquarium literature you might have read to this effect is totally > > erroneous, unless these fish were 1/4" fry and the tank >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27070	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira

Hi Group I am attaching a response I received from Marineland about the new and improved Bio-Spira. It's not very detailed or technical, but maybe someone else would like to contact him at the address provided. In a message dated 4/7/2008 11:39:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Marineland.Consumer@... writes: Hello Barbara, The replacement is the same thing. It is just packaged in a different container and much more concentrated. It took a few years of research but we were able to eliminate the need for refrigeration and keep its effectiveness. It will have an expiration date. Freshwater will be branded Tetra and called Safe Start. The Saltwater version will be branded Instant Ocean and still called Bio-Spira. Regards, Robert Huber United Pet Group, Aquatics Div. Senior Consumer Relations Specialist Robert.Huber@... 1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27071	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts fungus

Since I was concerned that the others might develop the fungus also, I medicated the entire tank with Maroxy for the fungus and Maracyn in case of secondary infection. It appears the fungus is completely gone. Thanks again for the advice. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > That's a bit of good news, and encouraging to see there's a marked > improvement. Am curious to know if you isolated the affected one to > a hospital tank and/or if you made some partial water changes to > improve the water conditions. What medication(s) did you use? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@> > wrote: > > > > I'm sorry -- there were responses. I thought they'd be emailed and I > > didn't check here till this morning. The one guy is improving > nicely. > > The white stuff is almost gone and he seems fine; no sign of it on > the > > others. Thanks everyone for the help. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Shirley, Don't know why, but I thought this question was > answered, > > > and regret that it hasn't been. To answer your question short > and to > > > the point -- No, Fungus is not contagious, in the sense that it > is > > > spread from fish to fish as flukes (for example) would be. Most > > > often (but not always), Fungus is a secondary infection when > invading > > > an organism's wound only after it has already suffered a > bacterial > > > infection. > > > > > > In most other cases, when a wound is not part of the equation, > its > > > the direct result of stress on a fish due to inadequate, less- > than- > > > optimum conditions whereby these poor conditions allow ever- > present > > > Fungus to infect a weakened fish. Such a weakened, Fungused fish > > > will add additional Fungi populations to the water column > enabling > > > another fish to contract it more easily, but then only if that > fish > > > is also so weakened/stressed; a healthy fish will not be infected > by > > > Fungus. The common factor here though is that often, the water > > > parameters and/or other adverse condition condusive to Fungus > > > infection is usually in place in these events, affecting > (stressing) > > > all other inhabitants common to that same water column. > > > > > > By this, it can be seen that it is not other fish (however > infected > > > or free from Fungus) infecting yet other fish with this pathogen, > but > > > the water and/or other adverse conditions themselves which has > > > stressed the infected organism to to this point. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" > <shrlycat@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Anybody out there? To summarize my original post, all I want to > know > > > > is, is fungus contagious? If one of my cichlids has it, are the > > > others > > > > susceptible? > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" > <shrlycat@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have four male convicts. Four days ago, I noticed that one > of > > > them > > > > > had white cottony stuff over his right and left eye, caudal > area, > > > > > pectoral fin, and tail, which I determined was a fungus. I > realize > > > > > that males can be aggressive with each other and cause minor > > > wounds, > > > > > so I was concerned there might be a wound in addition to the > > > fungus. I > > > > > didn't know if the fungus was contagious, so I treated the > entire > > > tank > > > > > with Marcyn and Maroxy. The one guy is showing significant > > > > > improvement. No sign of the problem in the others. I have a > > > hospital > > > > > tank set up, but I was concerned that the other three might > > > acquire > > > > > the fungus and possibly infection, so medicated the entire > tank. > > > > > Should I have put the convict with the obvious fungus in the > > > hospital > > > > > tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27072	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid convicts fungus

Good Job ! Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Shirley Reichard To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlid convicts fungus Since I was concerned that the others might develop the fungus also, I medicated the entire tank with Maroxy for the fungus and Maracyn in case of secondary infection. It appears the fungus is completely gone. Thanks again for the advice. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > That's a bit of good news, and encouraging to see there's a marked > improvement. Am curious to know if you isolated the affected one to > a hospital tank and/or if you made some partial water changes to > improve the water conditions. What medication(s) did you use? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@> > wrote: > > > > I'm sorry -- there were responses. I thought they'd be emailed and I > > didn't check here till this morning. The one guy is improving > nicely. > > The white stuff is almost gone and he seems fine; no sign of it on > the > > others. Thanks everyone for the help. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Shirley, Don't know why, but I thought this question was > answered, > > > and regret that it hasn't been. To answer your question short > and to > > > the point -- No, Fungus is not contagious, in the sense that it > is > > > spread from fish to fish as flukes (for example) would be. Most > > > often (but not always), Fungus is a secondary infection when > invading > > > an organism's wound only after it has already suffered a > bacterial > > > infection. > > > > > > In most other cases, when a wound is not part of the equation, > its > > > the direct result of stress on a fish due to inadequate, less- > than- > > > optimum conditions whereby these poor conditions allow ever- > present > > > Fungus to infect a weakened fish. Such a weakened, Fungused fish > > > will add additional Fungi populations to the water column > enabling > > > another fish to contract it more easily, but then only if that > fish > > > is also so weakened/stressed; a healthy fish will not be infected > by > > > Fungus. The common factor here though is that often, the water > > > parameters and/or other adverse condition condusive to Fungus > > > infection is usually in place in these events, affecting > (stressing) > > > all other inhabitants common to that same water column. > > > > > > By this, it can be seen that it is not other fish (however > infected > > > or free from Fungus) infecting yet other fish with this pathogen, > but > > > the water and/or other adverse conditions themselves which has > > > stressed the infected organism to to this point. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" > <shrlycat@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Anybody out there? To summarize my original post, all I want to > know > > > > is, is fungus contagious? If one of my cichlids has it, are the > > > others > > > > susceptible? > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" > <shrlycat@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have four male convicts. Four days ago, I noticed that one > of > > > them > > > > > had white cottony stuff over his right and left eye, caudal > area, > > > > > pectoral fin, and tail, which I determined was a fungus. I > realize > > > > > that males can be aggressive with each other and cause minor > > > wounds, > > > > > so I was concerned there might be a wound in addition to the > > > fungus. I > > > > > didn't know if the fungus was contagious, so I treated the > entire > > > tank > > > > > with Marcyn and Maroxy. The one guy is showing significant > > > > > improvement. No sign of the problem in the others. I have a > > > hospital > > > > > tank set up, but I was concerned that the other three might > > > acquire > > > > > the fungus and possibly infection, so medicated the entire > tank. > > > > > Should I have put the convict with the obvious fungus in the > > > hospital > > > > > tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008 8:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27073	From: Lisa	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: New catfish

I just got a new catfish today for my coldwater tank. It's in with the 3 leopard danios and the female betta. Please help me to id the species, because the shopkeeper couldn't tell me. I have called it `Olly' Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27074	From: Kevin	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: has any ne had problems with splendid betta fix remedy

has any one had problems with this i used it in a quart tank and it make here more sick did what the drections sayed 12 drops no water changes but i did do one change ll my level are fine now i m trying api

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27075	From: bmp	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: Re: Dazed corydoras

Thanks Steve. This happened on Sunday afternoon/evening. While I was at work today, I did some basic searching on the internet and found anecdotes from other fishkeepers indicating that other corys have shown similar behavior. Some even seem to occasionally 'play dead' for a short time then go back to normal behavior. Reading of those fish helped me relax and stop worrying. Unfortunately though, after being back at home for a while this evening, I realized that there was a dead cory in that tank. I have not yet been able to verify that it was a trilineatus so I'm not certain it was the same one who seemed to be doing poorly yesterday. However, I feel it probably was. Tomorrow I should have a better chance to do a head count. It is sad for me whenever a fish dies. I admit I say a little prayer for each one. Fortunately, we haven't lost too many but each one is special to us. Even if some people feel I have shortcomings when it comes to some of the fine techniques of fishkeeping, I do my best and care about these creatures. Good evening, Beverly --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > I would keep an eye on this fellow for at least the > next few days to > ensure that he is OK. This is not normal behavior. > > \\Steve// Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/7/2008
Subject: Re: has any ne had problems with splendid betta fix remedy

First, a quart sized container is NOT big enough for any fish. A Betta should have at least 2.5G+. If you can't afford to buy a regular tank, check with your local deli and get a 1G or 2G glass jar (like used for BIG pickles) and some condiments. They should give it to you for free. A 1G still isn't the recommended size but it would be 400% larger than the quart sized container. Then you could do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) rather than 100% water changes which can put a fish into shock and cause osmoregulatory issues since the replacement water usually will have dramatically different water parameters. The 1G jar will work much better until you can save up for a 5G or 10G tank. You can also check FreeCycle.org for your local group and you might get a 10G for free. What was wrong with the Betta prior to you using the BettaFix? What are you trying now or did you mean "trying api" referring to the API BettaFix? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] has any ne had problems with splendid betta fix remedy has any one had problems with this i used it in a quart tank and it make here more sick did what the drections sayed 12 drops no water changes but i did do one change ll my level are fine now i m trying api No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1362 - Release Date: 4/6/2008 11:12 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27077	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

I found an old tank in the shed, and was wondering what the risks would be for using it again for a single goldfish, or some guppies I'd stab at a guess and say it's just under 5 gallon maybe. It measures 45cm length 25cm depth and 25cm width I'm going to clean it up with `Bioclear' and take some photos for you all There was also an old corner filter. But I doubt that's very efficient anymore. I plugged it into the power point to see if it still works. And it still does. But I'm probably better off getting a new one anyway. I even found an U/G filter, but I'm ditching that without a second thought. I think the tank itself is roughly 10 years old. There is a chip in one of the top corners, as you will see in the photo. But I don't think it's a safety hazard, I will have to buy new foam for the tank to sit on, because I couldn't find it with what was in the shed, but I'm sure it's probably degraded by now anyway. The overall condition of the tank at first glance seems okay. I can't find any cracks. But I will thoroughly scan it later. But I would like your opinions please. Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27078	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

5G might be fine for a Betta tank or maybe a couple of male guppies or something like that BUT it's definitely NOT enough tank for a single goldfish. Fancy goldfish need at least a 4', 55G tank since they grow to around 6" long, on average, but since they are round-bodied, they still have the body mass of their 12" long-bodied cousins. A single adult sized goldfish still has the body mass of OVER 500 1" goldfish but since they are not big swimmers, they can be kept in an aquarium. The long bodied goldfish really should be in ponds or really BIG tanks. Even a 55G 4' tank will needs lots of PWC's and good filtration to handle the bioload of a one or two fancy goldfish. If you go with a Betta, that old box filter might work fine since Betta's do not like a lot of water circulation anyhow. Why do you need foam for the tank to sit on? When you fill the tank the first time, you might want to do it outside. 5G of water can make quite a mess inside if something does go wrong. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank... I found an old tank in the shed, and was wondering what the risks would be for using it again for a single goldfish, or some guppies I'd stab at a guess and say it's just under 5 gallon maybe. It measures 45cm length 25cm depth and 25cm width I'm going to clean it up with `Bioclear' and take some photos for you all There was also an old corner filter. But I doubt that's very efficient anymore. I plugged it into the power point to see if it still works. And it still does. But I'm probably better off getting a new one anyway. I even found an U/G filter, but I'm ditching that without a second thought. I think the tank itself is roughly 10 years old. There is a chip in one of the top corners, as you will see in the photo. But I don't think it's a safety hazard, I will have to buy new foam for the tank to sit on, because I couldn't find it with what was in the shed, but I'm sure it's probably degraded by now anyway. The overall condition of the tank at first glance seems okay. I can't find any cracks. But I will thoroughly scan it later. But I would like your opinions please. Thanks Lisa No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1364 - Release Date: 4/7/2008 6:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27079	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: 4 angels in an approx 8 gal tank?

I saw a youtube video of someone who has a 5 gal tank. They had 2 clown loaches, and 2 angels. If your calculations of approx 8gal on my old tank are correct, does that mean I can have the same? Or what about 4 angels? I would have to obtain a new filter and a heater of course

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27080	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: 4 angels in an approx 8 gal tank?

I raise angels and I would recommend 10 gallons per fish. The person who had the video of 2 clowns and 2 angels is not treating their fish right, IMHO.Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: lisa_lawless2004@...: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:11:02 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 angels in an approx 8 gal tank? I saw a youtube video of someone who has a 5 gal tank.They had 2 clown loaches, and 2 angels.If your calculations of approx 8gal on my old tank are correct, does that mean I can have the same?Or what about 4 angels?I would have to obtain a new filter and a heater of course [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27081	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: 4 angels in an approx 8 gal tank?

On YouTube, I saw a guy lay down on the interstate in the middle of the traffic lane and an 18 wheeler drove over him at 60 mph but I wouldn't recommend that others do it. I also saw a guy swallow a glass of water with a goldfish in it and then puke it back up. My point is that YouTube is not the best resource for good information or fish keeping information. While there may be some good video's on YouTube, 99.9% are useless or for entertainment purposes only. If it's an 8G tank, go to my blog and I have an article called "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking List" and you could use it as a guideline for stocking your 8G but cut back 20% on the number of fish. A single Angelfish needs at least 35G. They grow to 6" long by 9" high. You should go back to the YouTube you saw of that 5G tank with two clown loaches and two angels and post a comment about what an IDIOT that person is for perpetuating such nonsense. Maybe that poster should go lay down in traffic... but not in the middle of the lane. ;-) While I'm against abortions... there may be some logic to legalizing retroactive abortions. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 angels in an approx 8 gal tank? I saw a youtube video of someone who has a 5 gal tank. They had 2 clown loaches, and 2 angels. If your calculations of approx 8gal on my old tank are correct, does that mean I can have the same? Or what about 4 angels? I would have to obtain a new filter and a heater of course No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1364 - Release Date: 4/7/2008 6:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27082	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Filter Cleaning

I have a Fluval 405 canister filter on my 90 gal tank. I have been cleaning it monthly (not on same day that I do a PWC). I rinse under running aquarium temp water since I have well water and do not worry about chlorine. I rinse off the canister container, trays, sponges, prefilter media and (lightly) bio-media. I clean the cover and impeller, lubricate the o-ring, reassemble and put back on tank. I have done this for 5 months and have not seen a mini-cycle. I test water 24 hours after cleaning and every 3 days thereafter. The ammonia and nitrite are always 0 and the nitrate is 5 to 15. I do the PWC (25%) weekly. The pH is always 7.4 to 7.5. I have seen post on this list that say they clean their canister filter every 3 or 4 months or only when the flow gets low. My question is should I be doing cleaning less frequently as some others recommend? Does this also apply to HOB filters? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27083	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Cleaning

I say yes, at least skip a month in between. Let the flow of water be your guide. Mine are usually OK until 3 months, and I know some VERY experienced fishkeepers who clean their canisters only every 6 months or more. HOBs are more frequent, I usually rinse every month but replace the cartridges only every couple of months. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter Cleaning I have a Fluval 405 canister filter on my 90 gal tank. I have been cleaning it monthly (not on same day that I do a PWC). I rinse under running aquarium temp water since I have well water and do not worry about chlorine. I rinse off the canister container, trays, sponges, prefilter media and (lightly) bio-media. I clean the cover and impeller, lubricate the o-ring, reassemble and put back on tank. I have done this for 5 months and have not seen a mini-cycle. I test water 24 hours after cleaning and every 3 days thereafter. The ammonia and nitrite are always 0 and the nitrate is 5 to 15. I do the PWC (25%) weekly. The pH is always 7.4 to 7.5. I have seen post on this list that say they clean their canister filter every 3 or 4 months or only when the flow gets low. My question is should I be doing cleaning less frequently as some others recommend? Does this also apply to HOB filters? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA __________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals <http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com> yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27084	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Cleaning

As usual, things depend on the individual tank's ecology and bioload. If you only have one fish in a 100G tank, then you could go months without doing filter maintenance. If you have a couple of oscars and a pleco (or 4-5 goldfish), those fish are all heavy eaters and waste producers so you couldn't wait several months between filter maintenance. If you are fully stocked with fish and tend to overfeed, then you might have to do weekly filter maintenance. As long as you can keep up with your current schedule, then I think you are doing well. I don't think it's good to wait until the amount of waste in the media slows down the water flow. At that point, the filter is churning out a lot of nitrates and DOC's as the waste decomposes. Those people who want to wait that long to do filter maintenance are just being lazy and are putting the burden on their fish. I don't think you've seen posts in this forum recommending that regiment. At least, not without being countered with better advice. I have two filter systems on my 65G and each one gets cleaned at least once a month alternating them every two weeks so I can super clean one if I need to and the other one stays fully cycled. I don't have to superclean them very often though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter Cleaning I have a Fluval 405 canister filter on my 90 gal tank. I have been cleaning it monthly (not on same day that I do a PWC). I rinse under running aquarium temp water since I have well water and do not worry about chlorine. I rinse off the canister container, trays, sponges, prefilter media and (lightly) bio-media. I clean the cover and impeller, lubricate the o-ring, reassemble and put back on tank. I have done this for 5 months and have not seen a mini-cycle. I test water 24 hours after cleaning and every 3 days thereafter. The ammonia and nitrite are always 0 and the nitrate is 5 to 15. I do the PWC (25%) weekly. The pH is always 7.4 to 7.5. I have seen post on this list that say they clean their canister filter every 3 or 4 months or only when the flow gets low. My question is should I be doing cleaning less frequently as some others recommend? Does this also apply to HOB filters? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1364 - Release Date: 4/7/2008 6:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27085	From: Raven Mae	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: (no subject)

That's a horrible way to react to not only a new member but to a new fishkeeper. Good grief you guys. No one knows if the person on youtube knows what he's doing either. I have a semi agressive 60 gallon tank with a ghost knife, 2 bala sharks, 2 rainbow sharks 4 angelfish, a pleco, a cory cat, 10 danios, and 4 tigerbarbs. I KNOW that this is way too many fish. All of these fish are small. Very small. And so the 60 gallon tank is fine for them. I know the angels will be approximately the size of a saucer in 2 years and will need their own tank. I know placos grow up to 2 feet long. I also know that bala sharks and ghost knifes alone grow to a foot and a half long and will need their own tank and that danios are mostly used as starter fish for a tank like this and will most likely be eaten by the rest of the fish in the tank so by Christmas I will need another 55 gallon+ tank but right now my fish are happy, healthy and eating and growing fine. They seem to be thriving in the set up they're in because it's a fine set up for the time being and when the time comes and they do get bigger and some need to be moved to that new 55+ gallon tank they will be moved. Until then I think I'll go lay down in traffic for being a stupid fishkeeper since it's obviously too late for my mom to have an abortion. To answer the question that was asked, 4 angels may be too many in an 8 gallon tank even to start because they need room to swim and they can be slightly agressive though out of all the semi agressive fish I've seen they are probably the least. 1 or 2 might be ok but if it were me I'd get something like a 20-30 gallon tank and use the 8 gallon as a hospital tank because angels easily get sick. Also they're really quite peaceful until about 9 months of age when they'll start being more agressive. For breeding get a group of 4 or so in a larger tank and let them pair up on their own. For a cheap set up look at some place like Walmart you can usually find tank setups complete with heater, lights etc for varying prices depending on the gallon size. For a stand if you don't want to spend the money on a stand you can find a book case relatively cheap there too. ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27086	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: How to make make copies of drift wood?

Hi Tankers, I recently found several weathered tree limbs, and want to make resin casts of them for decorating my aquariums. I love undegravel filters, but dont like the lift tubes. therefore, find a tre limb that "looks good" and will fit the sides of the tank and cover the lift tubes. Any one ever tried making molds and resin casting? Also, what kind of paint to use on the resin casts? Tanks! Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27087	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: lost 8 fish during move........looking to restock

i just currently moved 5 miles up the road. i have 70 gallon tank that i use primarily and a 20 gal. i just had in my attic. so when i moved i set up the 20 gal. at our new address with water from the 70 gal. i trasfered all the fish in a clean/new bucket and put them in the 20 gal. the water in the tank and the water in the bucket were the same. within 4 hours of the move i lost 8 of my 13 fish. i lost a dragonfish, 3 albino clawed frogs, rainbow shark, bala shark,and 2 danios. i still have 2 guaramis, one little red fish that i am not sure about, and my red blood parrot cichlid. my daughter loves my blood parrot and has named him nemo. i re- set up my 70 and my blood ciclid is kinda white instead of bright orange. i think he is just stressed about the move still. however what do you recommend for new fish, cause i want to go for beautiful colorful fish, but i still want more albino clawed frogs and bala sharks. other than those i am thinking all cichlids.what do you think?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27088	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Online vendor question

Was wondering if anyone on the list has heard of or better yet, bought from livingaquatic.com? Thanks in advance! -Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27089	From: Kristen Kinzer	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: lost 8 fish during move........looking to restock

If I were you I'd be testing my water, or something. That's odd that you lost 8 out of 13 fish. We moved my 75 gallon tank about 5 miles or so too, and I didn't lose one fish. No one even acted ill. Better to check things out now than to buy more fish and have them die too. Good luck, Kristen ----- Original Message ---- From: thtanoyinguy <thtanoyinguy@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 3:07:23 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] lost 8 fish during move........looking to restock i just currently moved 5 miles up the road. i have 70 gallon tank that i use primarily and a 20 gal. i just had in my attic. so when i moved i set up the 20 gal. at our new address with water from the 70 gal. i trasfered all the fish in a clean/new bucket and put them in the 20 gal. the water in the tank and the water in the bucket were the same. within 4 hours of the move i lost 8 of my 13 fish. i lost a dragonfish, 3 albino clawed frogs, rainbow shark, bala shark,and 2 danios. i still have 2 guaramis, one little red fish that i am not sure about, and my red blood parrot cichlid. my daughter loves my blood parrot and has named him nemo. i re- set up my 70 and my blood ciclid is kinda white instead of bright orange. i think he is just stressed about the move still. however what do you recommend for new fish, cause i want to go for beautiful colorful fish, but i still want more albino clawed frogs and bala sharks. other than those i am thinking all cichlids.what do you think? ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27090	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Larger South American Fish Needed

Hey Guys, keeping it short...have a 75 gallon tank with approx 10 neon tetra, 10 cardinal tetra, 3 albino cory's and 3 cory serbais. Also have some plants and am going to add more. Girlfriend wants to add one fish for herself that is larger "so she can see it." What is a good South American Fish I can add available in the states to the tank? any ideas? Ken **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27091	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Silly question

What does the PH need to be for angels? For some reason my books don't tell me Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27092	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

Okay. So assuming I have an 8 gallon (In good condition) And a goldfish and even angels are out of the question, what about dwarf gouramis? I found this site; http://www.bayfish.com.au/category16_1.htm Or perhaps some Australian rainbow fish? I'm trying to work out what I can put in an 8 gal here. You guys have been an enormous help so far, so thanks : ) Keep it up Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27093	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Blue yabbys/crayfish

Anyone know anything about them? How big they get? Diet? Requirements like tank size... Water quality? Do they need heaters?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27094	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: (no subject)

Thankyou Raven Mae. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Raven Mae <thee_raven2006@...> wrote: > > That's a horrible way to react to not only a new member but to a new fishkeeper. Good grief you guys. No one knows if the person on youtube knows what he's doing either. I have a semi agressive 60 gallon tank with a ghost knife, 2 bala sharks, 2 rainbow sharks 4 angelfish, a pleco, a cory cat, 10 danios, and 4 tigerbarbs. I KNOW that this is way too many fish. All of these fish are small. Very small. And so the 60 gallon tank is fine for them. I know the angels will be approximately the size of a saucer in 2 years and will need their own tank. I know placos grow up to 2 feet long. I also know that bala sharks and ghost knifes alone grow to a foot and a half long and will need their own tank and that danios are mostly used as starter fish for a tank like this and will most likely be eaten by the rest of the fish in the tank so by Christmas I will need another 55 gallon+ tank but right now my fish are happy, healthy and eating and growing fine. > They seem to be thriving in the set up they're in because it's a fine set up for the time being and when the time comes and they do get bigger and some need to be moved to that new 55+ gallon tank they will be moved. Until then I think I'll go lay down in traffic for being a stupid fishkeeper since it's obviously too late for my mom to have an abortion. To answer the question that was asked, 4 angels may be too many in an 8 gallon tank even to start because they need room to swim and they can be slightly agressive though out of all the semi agressive fish I've seen they are probably the least. 1 or 2 might be ok but if it were me I'd get something like a 20-30 gallon tank and use the 8 gallon as a hospital tank because angels easily get sick. Also they're really quite peaceful until about 9 months of age when they'll start being more agressive. For breeding get a group of 4 or so in a larger tank and let them pair up on their own. For a cheap > set up look at some place like Walmart you can usually find tank setups complete with heater, lights etc for varying prices depending on the gallon size. For a stand if you don't want to spend the money on a stand you can find a book case relatively cheap there too. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27095	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

Before you do anything with the tank, fill it with water and let it set a spell. This will allow you to determine if the tank leaks. If it does leak, you will face a choice of whether you wish to repair it, or just divert it to another use. If you divert it, do what is needed for that use. If you repair it, clean thoroughly and then repair. If the tank does not leak, clean thoroughly. I don't know of this Bioclear you speak, but I would use bleach and salt as my main cleaning agents, and, if there are mineral deposits, vinegar, and water. As for fish, the goldfish would be out. The tank is too small for a goldfish of any size. Guppies would be good. Dwarf gouramis could be another choice. Maybe a few white clouds. Whatever fish you decide upon, they should be few and hardy. With the small amount of water the tank holds, it can be rather unstable. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank... I found an old tank in the shed, and was wondering what the risks would be for using it again for a single goldfish, or some guppies I'd stab at a guess and say it's just under 5 gallon maybe. It measures 45cm length 25cm depth and 25cm width I'm going to clean it up with `Bioclear' and take some photos for you all There was also an old corner filter. But I doubt that's very efficient anymore. I plugged it into the power point to see if it still works. And it still does. But I'm probably better off getting a new one anyway. I even found an U/G filter, but I'm ditching that without a second thought. I think the tank itself is roughly 10 years old. There is a chip in one of the top corners, as you will see in the photo. But I don't think it's a safety hazard, I will have to buy new foam for the tank to sit on, because I couldn't find it with what was in the shed, but I'm sure it's probably degraded by now anyway. The overall condition of the tank at first glance seems okay. I can't find any cracks. But I will thoroughly scan it later. But I would like your opinions please. Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27096	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Raven, I guess the "illustrating absurdity by being absurd" (compliments to Rush Limbaugh) aspect of my reply went the way of the wind. But seriously, while YouTube might be entertaining, it's not a place to learn anything... which was the point of emphasis of my reply... since a majority of the people uploading stuff on YouTube qualify for the retro-active abortion scenario... a case in point being this latest group of eight teen girls and boys who tricked and beat up that one girl and videotaped the entire beat-down and posted it on YouTube. Of course, the DNA rejects are all under arrest now, as they should be. It's too bad the Judge can't order an R-A on all of them. As far as your stocking, as you know, you are seriously overstocked. Yes, I understand the fish are still small but it is during this juvenile period when fish are supposed to grow their most and by having them in an undersized and overstocked tank, they will be far more likely to be permanently stunted... not forgetting that overstocked fish are far more likely to have stress issues leading to health issues. The tank should be the proper size from the start instead of overstocking a smaller tank with plans to move the fish as they grow since that is a catch-22 since the fish won't grow as much or as fast in the undersized tank so they will begin the stunting process within a very short period of time. My simple calculations indicate your tank for your current stocking should be in the 500G+ range. With over filtration, live plants and frequent PWC's, a 300G+ 8' long tank would probably suffice but there could still be aggression problems. 100G for the Ghost Knifefish http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apteronotus_albifrons.html 100G each for the Bala Sharks http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Balantiocheilus_melanopterus.html 30G each for the Rainbow Sharks http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Epalzeorhynchus_frenatus.html 35G each for the Angelfish http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm 75G+ for the Common Pleco http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm We all make and have made mistakes but we should learn from them and dissuade others from making those same mistakes.. not encourage them to replicate our past mistakes. And now onto... Lisa, I hope you realize that I am not and was not criticizing you since you came here for help. I was only trying to emphasize and over-emphasize (illustrate absurdity by being absurd) that 90% of the stuff out there on the net is based on old, outdate information or is just pure junk from the start. Whenever I reply to any post in this or any other forum, unless I start the reply with a name, as I did in this reply, I am replying generically to the thousands of members in this group and to anyone on the internet who may come across this forum and read the posts and replies. My over-emphasis is intended to also dissuade them from relying on uploaded videos on YouTube for information unless that video is directed to you by an experience fish keeper. For every experienced person I meet in the various forums that I subscribe to, there are countless newbies who come to the forums trying to get good information. The key is to listen to the experienced members in the forums... not to some junk on YouTube or any other non-fish keeping forum. I'm pretty sure I've already directed you to Mongabay for their detailed profiles and care sheets on tropical fish but in case I haven't, go to http://fish.mongabay.com and you can enter the common or scientific name to find the Mongabay profile. On that profile, it will tell you all of the basics about that fish... from tank size suggestions to suggested companions to feeding to breeding to water parameters, etc. If you haven't gotten an answer to your catfish type, go to http://www.PlanetCatfish.com forums and there is a specific forum for identifying fish so post your picture there. And never buy a fish where you do not know specifically what type of fish it is and the store doesn't know either. Your catfish could be a channel catfish or blue catfish http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/catfish.asp which can grow to over 100 pounds in size and will eat anything and everything in the tank. It's probably not one of those catfish but without you or the store knowing.... then who knows??? Or it could be a Mekong Catfish... I recently read this National Geographic article of a Mekong catfish over 600 pounds in some areas of Thailand http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/06/0629_050629_giantcatfish.htm l Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raven Mae Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] (unknown) That's a horrible way to react to not only a new member but to a new fishkeeper. Good grief you guys. No one knows if the person on youtube knows what he's doing either. I have a semi agressive 60 gallon tank with a ghost knife, 2 bala sharks, 2 rainbow sharks 4 angelfish, a pleco, a cory cat, 10 danios, and 4 tigerbarbs. I KNOW that this is way too many fish. All of these fish are small. Very small. And so the 60 gallon tank is fine for them. I know the angels will be approximately the size of a saucer in 2 years and will need their own tank. I know placos grow up to 2 feet long. I also know that bala sharks and ghost knifes alone grow to a foot and a half long and will need their own tank and that danios are mostly used as starter fish for a tank like this and will most likely be eaten by the rest of the fish in the tank so by Christmas I will need another 55 gallon+ tank but right now my fish are happy, healthy and eating and growing fine. They seem to be thriving in the set up they're in because it's a fine set up for the time being and when the time comes and they do get bigger and some need to be moved to that new 55+ gallon tank they will be moved. Until then I think I'll go lay down in traffic for being a stupid fishkeeper since it's obviously too late for my mom to have an abortion. To answer the question that was asked, 4 angels may be too many in an 8 gallon tank even to start because they need room to swim and they can be slightly agressive though out of all the semi agressive fish I've seen they are probably the least. 1 or 2 might be ok but if it were me I'd get something like a 20-30 gallon tank and use the 8 gallon as a hospital tank because angels easily get sick. Also they're really quite peaceful until about 9 months of age when they'll start being more agressive. For breeding get a group of 4 or so in a larger tank and let them pair up on their own. For a cheap set up look at some place like Walmart you can usually find tank setups complete with heater, lights etc for varying prices depending on the gallon size. For a stand if you don't want to spend the money on a stand you can find a book case relatively cheap there too. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1364 - Release Date: 4/7/2008 6:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27097	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Silly question

The water that angels are found in the wild is acidic, the tank ranged angels have been acclimated to higher pH levels, so if you tend to run a bit acidic, not to worry. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Silly question What does the PH need to be for angels? For some reason my books don't tell me... Thanks Lisa ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27098	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Online vendor question

There's a few ways that I use to check out online retailers. http://www.BBBonline.com is one (nothing showed up on them with the BBBonline). eBay.com is another. In fact, livingaquatic.com has a link to their eBay Feedback page on their own About Us page... http://livingaquatic.com/about_us.php?osCsid=137761cf5a981f6262e6665315a9560 b Here's their eBay Feedback page... http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=livingaquatic &ftab=AllFeedback&sspagename=STRK:ME:UFS (not the best ratings but not bad either). You might want to read through all 10 complaints to see what they were complaining about. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of The Dragon Hunter Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Online vendor question Was wondering if anyone on the list has heard of or better yet, bought from livingaquatic.com? Thanks in advance! -Steve No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1364 - Release Date: 4/7/2008 6:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27099	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Larger South American Fish Needed

You might want to consider some of the larger tetras, along the lines of serape or bleeding heart tetras. Or suggest she get some glasses (ducking and heading for the hills <g>). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Larger South American Fish Needed Hey Guys, keeping it short...have a 75 gallon tank with approx 10 neon tetra, 10 cardinal tetra, 3 albino cory's and 3 cory serbais. Also have some plants and am going to add more. Girlfriend wants to add one fish for herself that is larger "so she can see it." What is a good South American Fish I can add available in the states to the tank? any ideas? Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27100	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Larger South American Fish Needed

Something you could do is look at the http://fish.Mongabay.com profiles on each of your fish to see what they have listed as "Suggested Companions" (SC) and try to choose something from that section so you will have a better chance of your other fish not becoming snacks. Here's a copy/paste on the neon tetras... SB: A peaceful fish ideal for a community tank. Do not keep the Neon Tetra with substantially larger fish such as Angels, for the neon may get eaten. Keep this fish in groups of five or more. SC: Tetras, Corydoras, Apistogramma, Discus, gouramis, Hatchetfish, Livebearers, Danios, Rasboras. Here's a copy/paste on the cardinal tetras... SB: A shoaling fish that must be keep in groups of at least six. A good community fish that can be kept with other small fish. The Cardinal Tetra will fall prey to large fish, such as Angels. SC: Tetras, Corydoras, Apistogramma, Discus, gouramis, Hatchetfish. Here's the profile on the Apisto's since they are South American. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apistogramma_trifasciata.html And the profile on the Hatchetfish also... http://fish.mongabay.com/gasteropelecidae.htm Most Gourami's aren't native to South America AFAIK and Discus are generally kept in species only tanks but I guess they can be kept in a community tank also. http://fish.mongabay.com/discus.htm Hope that helps. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Larger South American Fish Needed Hey Guys, keeping it short...have a 75 gallon tank with approx 10 neon tetra, 10 cardinal tetra, 3 albino cory's and 3 cory serbais. Also have some plants and am going to add more. Girlfriend wants to add one fish for herself that is larger "so she can see it." What is a good South American Fish I can add available in the states to the tank? any ideas? Ken No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1364 - Release Date: 4/7/2008 6:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27101	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Oh jeeze, Lenny. I'm blonde. Not an idiot. I've been fishkeeping for the last three years. Just not on a large scale. I know youtube is mostly for 'entertainment' and that's what I was on it for. Looking at other people's tanks because I was bored The 5gal video issue was only a coincidence with talking about my newfound 8gal, which is why I bought it up in the first place. I didn't come here to debate being 'hit by a truck' or whatever it was. I came here to get 'constructive' advice and help. Not discuss accuracy of youtube info Someone once said to me (and I'll often say it myself) `If you cant say anything nice, don't say it at all.' I'm not being rude here. I just find the abruptness of your post mildly offensive. If this is what the majority of the group is like, then I'll leave.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27102	From: Chad Plum	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: Larger South American Fish Needed

I love Fire mouths but they have a bad habit of ripping up plants I have a beautiful male that I may have to find a good home for unless I can find another female to take the place of his mate who died after 7 years I have had him for 3 years now It is so hard to find a female Fire mouth and at that a larger one Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: You might want to consider some of the larger tetras, along the lines of serape or bleeding heart tetras. Or suggest she get some glasses (ducking and heading for the hills <g>). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Larger South American Fish Needed Hey Guys, keeping it short...have a 75 gallon tank with approx 10 neon tetra, 10 cardinal tetra, 3 albino cory's and 3 cory serbais. Also have some plants and am going to add more. Girlfriend wants to add one fish for herself that is larger "so she can see it." What is a good South American Fish I can add available in the states to the tank? any ideas? Ken --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27103	From: Chad Plum	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

on the thought of putting 4 angles in a 8 gal it is a real bad idea may be OK for a month or so but I would suggest at least a 55 gal for 4 angels if not a larger tank most will say around 100 gal for the 4 angels I think that is crazy myself but I could be wrong I have 4 angels in my 150 planted tank along with some other fish one of which is a 7 inch black ghost knife and 2 rubber nose plecos and 3 cory cats, 2 khuli loaches, 4 small bala sharks and a ralphel cat. I know it is a lot I am setting up a 210 which some of the fish will have a new home and I also have a 55 gal that had my pair of fire mouths in it but the female passed on after 7 years Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: Oh jeeze, Lenny. I'm blonde. Not an idiot. I've been fishkeeping for the last three years. Just not on a large scale. I know youtube is mostly for 'entertainment' and that's what I was on it for. Looking at other people's tanks because I was bored The 5gal video issue was only a coincidence with talking about my newfound 8gal, which is why I bought it up in the first place. I didn't come here to debate being 'hit by a truck' or whatever it was. I came here to get 'constructive' advice and help. Not discuss accuracy of youtube info Someone once said to me (and I'll often say it myself) `If you cant say anything nice, don't say it at all.' I'm not being rude here. I just find the abruptness of your post mildly offensive. If this is what the majority of the group is like, then I'll leave. --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27104	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Lisa, I totally understand why, as a newby to this list, you might have taken Lenny's post to be nasty but I have to say, he's a funny guy, and a wealth of info on here...and one of the most intense guys I've ever "met" when it comes to stocking questions. I think he meant it more off-the-cuff and haha than mean. I, for one, was laughing my a** off and even had a couple of coworkers going... If you can laugh it off and hang out, I think you'll like it here... Carmen On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Oh jeeze, Lenny. I'm blonde. Not an idiot. > I've been fishkeeping for the last three years. Just not on a large > scale. > > I know youtube is mostly for 'entertainment' and that's what I was on > it for. > Looking at other people's tanks because I was bored… > > The 5gal video issue was only a coincidence with talking about my > newfound 8gal, which is why I bought it up in the first place. > I didn't come here to debate being 'hit by a truck' or whatever it > was. > > I came here to get 'constructive' advice and help. Not discuss > accuracy of youtube info… > > Someone once said to me (and I'll often say it myself) `If you cant > say anything nice, don't say it at all.' > I'm not being rude here. I just find the abruptness of your post > mildly offensive. > If this is what the majority of the group is like, then I'll leave. > > > -- Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com Ontario, Canada

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27105	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Lisa, Below is your original post... Nothing in your original post indicated that you thought or knew that YouTube was for entertainment only. Your post starts off with a reference to the YouTube video and it further indicates that you seemed very serious about duplicating the stocking in the YouTube video with your 8G tank. My reply was supposed to be humorous and informative but also illustrate the absurdity of YouTube as an information source... but I guess you guys don't get Rush Limbaugh down under. LOL If I only mildly offended you, then I must be losing my touch. I normally excel at those kinds of things. I am a man after all! ;-) And as far as that saying about "... saying nice or don't say it at all..." stuff..., that's one of them feel-good statements that I don't buy into 100%. I try to be nice but sometimes certain things have to be answered accordingly. For example, would you be nice to Hannibal Lector while he's eating your face? Sorry, but I'd be giving him a very loud profanity laced piece of my mind as soon as he gets close to my nose! :-D Besides, I didn't say anything bad to you... it was all directed towards the DNA reject that posted that 5G YouTube video that you initially referenced. Does anybody ever post comments below those ignorance based videos? It seems someone should but I simply don't have time to surf YouTube. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 angels in an approx 8 gal tank? I saw a youtube video of someone who has a 5 gal tank. They had 2 clown loaches, and 2 angels. If your calculations of approx 8gal on my old tank are correct, does that mean I can have the same? Or what about 4 angels? I would have to obtain a new filter and a heater of course -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (unknown) Oh jeeze, Lenny. I'm blonde. Not an idiot. I've been fishkeeping for the last three years. Just not on a large scale. I know youtube is mostly for 'entertainment' and that's what I was on it for. Looking at other people's tanks because I was bored… The 5gal video issue was only a coincidence with talking about my newfound 8gal, which is why I bought it up in the first place. I didn't come here to debate being 'hit by a truck' or whatever it was. I came here to get 'constructive' advice and help. Not discuss accuracy of youtube info… Someone once said to me (and I'll often say it myself) `If you cant say anything nice, don't say it at all.' I'm not being rude here. I just find the abruptness of your post mildly offensive. If this is what the majority of the group is like, then I'll leave. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1364 - Release Date: 4/7/2008 6:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27106	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

I'm glad someone found me humorous. ;-) I think the next time I decide to illustrate absurdity by being absurd, I'll leave that to Rush Limbaugh. Next time, I'm posting under my nom de plume, the Reverend GoldLenny ... I can hear my sermon now! "I didn't say God Bless YouTube. Oh NOOO! I said GOD DA__ YOUTUBE!!! That's right... I said it... you heard me say it! GOD DA__ YOUTUBE!!!" (Now I have to hope that the rest of the world knows about Obama's Reverend Wright or my sermon may not be very humorous either. ;-) LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (unknown) Lisa, I totally understand why, as a newby to this list, you might have taken Lenny's post to be nasty but I have to say, he's a funny guy, and a wealth of info on here...and one of the most intense guys I've ever "met" when it comes to stocking questions. I think he meant it more off-the-cuff and haha than mean. I, for one, was laughing my a** off and even had a couple of coworkers going... If you can laugh it off and hang out, I think you'll like it here... Carmen On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Oh jeeze, Lenny. I'm blonde. Not an idiot. > I've been fishkeeping for the last three years. Just not on a large > scale. > > I know youtube is mostly for 'entertainment' and that's what I was on > it for. > Looking at other people's tanks because I was bored… > > The 5gal video issue was only a coincidence with talking about my > newfound 8gal, which is why I bought it up in the first place. > I didn't come here to debate being 'hit by a truck' or whatever it > was. > > I came here to get 'constructive' advice and help. Not discuss > accuracy of youtube info… > > Someone once said to me (and I'll often say it myself) `If you cant > say anything nice, don't say it at all.' > I'm not being rude here. I just find the abruptness of your post > mildly offensive. > If this is what the majority of the group is like, then I'll leave. > > > -- Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com Ontario, Canada No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1364 - Release Date: 4/7/2008 6:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27107	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

(Smiles) Your a priest? O Holy lor.. Jeepers! Sorry father...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27108	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: lost 8 fish during move........looking to restock

You don't mention what you did with your filter system(s)? While using the same water is helpful in keeping the osmoregulatory system from having to deal with water parameter issues, the nitrifying bacteria mostly live in the filter media and almost none live in the water column. If you didn't preserve the filter media during the move and use the old filter media in the new set up, then your larger bioload in a smaller tank would quickly cause a rise in the ammonia level. Your 70G was already overstocked so when you put all of them same fish into a 20G tank, you could have also had a drastic reduction in available O2 for the fish to breathe. That and the added stress of the move and of fish that need lots of room being put into the temporary smaller tank is likely to have been an additional cause if it wasn't ammonia problems. Please check out the profiles on http://fish.Mongabay.com for any fish you plan on keeping and/or restocking and look at the minimum tank suggestions for each fish and try to keep fish that can live in your tank as full grown adults. They will also list suggested companions so look at the profiles for the fish you still have and get things that are suitable. ACF's need at least 10G each as a minimum. Bala Sharks need 100G each. Depending on the species, the gourami's need 25-35G each unless dwarf gourami's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thtanoyinguy Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] lost 8 fish during move........looking to restock i just currently moved 5 miles up the road. i have 70 gallon tank that i use primarily and a 20 gal. i just had in my attic. so when i moved i set up the 20 gal. at our new address with water from the 70 gal. i trasfered all the fish in a clean/new bucket and put them in the 20 gal. the water in the tank and the water in the bucket were the same. within 4 hours of the move i lost 8 of my 13 fish. i lost a dragonfish, 3 albino clawed frogs, rainbow shark, bala shark,and 2 danios. i still have 2 guaramis, one little red fish that i am not sure about, and my red blood parrot cichlid. my daughter loves my blood parrot and has named him nemo. i re- set up my 70 and my blood ciclid is kinda white instead of bright orange. i think he is just stressed about the move still. however what do you recommend for new fish, cause i want to go for beautiful colorful fish, but i still want more albino clawed frogs and bala sharks. other than those i am thinking all cichlids.what do you think? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1366 - Release Date: 4/8/2008 5:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27109	From: Raven Mae	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

You know I realize that I may have gotton a little heated with the post I made but I was under the impression when I joined this group it was for people who whether new or not were looking for help with their fish and tanks. That they could come and ask questions and not get jumped on if they don't know everything about fishkeeping by those who apparently think they do. I don't even go to youtube and even I know it's just for fun and the majority of the stuff on there is for fun. It's not a great reference for fishkeeping. And replying to someone about laying down in the middle of traffic being a good idea instead of explaining to them what would be a better situation for the types of fish they would like to get isn't exactly a great way to show your humor. And by the way Rush Limbaugh is a moron. And not funny. You don't have to point out for the 5th time my tank is overstocked. The rule of thumb is one inch of fish per gallon of water. 60 gallons in a long tank. I think they'll be alright. I'm not trying to be a hefer here but you might want to consider the reaction of people who do have questions but don't want to speak up because they're afraid of the reaction they'll get like the one that was just given. Sometimes a sense of humor can be mistaken for meanness. ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27110	From: kd7poe	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Pending Message Delays

Tomorrow, April 9, from 2:00 PM to 3:00 PM PT, we will once again be conducting scheduled maintenance on the Groups site. During this time, some groups will become unavailable for up to 30 minutes. Mail to some groups may also be delayed for up to 60 minutes. Thank you for your understanding, Yahoo! Groups Team

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27111	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: How to make make copies of drift wood?

Chuck's Planted Aquariums, has a section on how he designed, built and painted his paludarium base and background. You should find ideas to help you design and build what you are looking for. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g_construct.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How to make make copies of drift wood? Hi Tankers, I recently found several weathered tree limbs, and want to make resin casts of them for decorating my aquariums. I love undegravel filters, but dont like the lift tubes. therefore, find a tre limb that "looks good" and will fit the sides of the tank and cover the lift tubes. Any one ever tried making molds and resin casting? Also, what kind of paint to use on the resin casts? Tanks! Jim No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1366 - Release Date: 4/8/2008 5:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27112	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

I have been keeping Tropical Fish for quite a few years now (Too many to mention) and Lenny and I don't always agree. But, and that is a big but, you will never find a more dedicated Aquarist then Lenny. He literally spends hours on this site trying to help newcomers. If you listen to what he tries to tell "Newbies" you are guaranteed a successful aquarium. After you have been in the Hobby for awhile you may experiment a little and deviate from the standards, but in the meantime if you listen to Lenny you will not go wrong.. There is much more I could say, but I don't want to bore you. John in Nevada Raven Mae <thee_raven2006@...> wrote: You know I realize that I may have gotton a little heated with the post I made but I was under the impression when I joined this group it was for people who whether new or not were looking for help with their fish and tanks. That they could come and ask questions and not get jumped on if they don't know everything about fishkeeping by those who apparently think they do. I don't even go to youtube and even I know it's just for fun and the majority of the stuff on there is for fun. It's not a great reference for fishkeeping. And replying to someone about laying down in the middle of traffic being a good idea instead of explaining to them what would be a better situation for the types of fish they would like to get isn't exactly a great way to show your humor. And by the way Rush Limbaugh is a moron. And not funny. You don't have to point out for the 5th time my tank is overstocked. The rule of thumb is one inch of fish per gallon of water. 60 gallons in a long tank. I think they'll be alright. I'm not trying to be a hefer here but you might want to consider the reaction of people who do have questions but don't want to speak up because they're afraid of the reaction they'll get like the one that was just given. Sometimes a sense of humor can be mistaken for meanness. __________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27113	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Raven, I did not jump on Lisa. I jumped on the idiot(s) who posted the YouTube video. You may want to go re-read my original reply. I specifically asked/advised Lisa to post my comments on the idiot's YouTube video page. As far as you bringing up the fish-killing "one inch rule".. it simply does not work and it's a shame you are relying on it. Any fish that is supposed to get over 3" needs much more than one gallon per inch. For example... can you put a 10" goldfish or oscar in a 10G tank? NO! They each need 5G per inch of fish as a bare minimum for water volume but they need bigger than 50G tanks due to their lifestyles. Your tank is seriously OVERSTOCKED and your fish will inevitably suffer because of it. Who ever came up with the fish-killing "one inch rule" is hereby nominated as a candidate for an R-A also! ;-) I would tell you to go read my blog about a better set of simple stocking guidelines that I and other experienced fish keepers worked up a few years ago but I know you wouldn't do it anyhow. But if you decide you want to learn proper stocking guidelines for your tank, feel free to visit my blog. The link to the article is on the right side. BTW.. the next time I talk to Rush, I'll let him know you think he's a moron. God, why can't I be a multi-millionaire moron when I grow up? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raven Mae Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 1:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re: (unknown) You know I realize that I may have gotton a little heated with the post I made but I was under the impression when I joined this group it was for people who whether new or not were looking for help with their fish and tanks. That they could come and ask questions and not get jumped on if they don't know everything about fishkeeping by those who apparently think they do. I don't even go to youtube and even I know it's just for fun and the majority of the stuff on there is for fun. It's not a great reference for fishkeeping. And replying to someone about laying down in the middle of traffic being a good idea instead of explaining to them what would be a better situation for the types of fish they would like to get isn't exactly a great way to show your humor. And by the way Rush Limbaugh is a moron. And not funny. You don't have to point out for the 5th time my tank is overstocked. The rule of thumb is one inch of fish per gallon of water. 60 gallons in a long tank. I think they'll be alright. I'm not trying to be a hefer here but you might want to consider the reaction of people who do have questions but don't want to speak up because they're afraid of the reaction they'll get like the one that was just given. Sometimes a sense of humor can be mistaken for meanness. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1366 - Release Date: 4/8/2008 5:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27114	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

I like you Raven. And I hardly know you... You took the words right out of my...well head. But you get the point. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Raven Mae <thee_raven2006@...> wrote: > > You know I realize that I may have gotton a little heated with the post I made but I was under the impression when I joined this group it was for people who whether new or not were looking for help with their fish and tanks. That they could come and ask questions and not get jumped on if they don't know everything about fishkeeping by those who apparently think they do. I don't even go to youtube and even I know it's just for fun and the majority of the stuff on there is for fun. It's not a great reference for fishkeeping. And replying to someone about laying down in the middle of traffic being a good idea instead of explaining to them what would be a better situation for the types of fish they would like to get isn't exactly a great way to show your humor. And by the way Rush Limbaugh is a moron. And not funny. You don't have to point out for the 5th time my tank is overstocked. The rule of thumb is one inch of fish per gallon of water. 60 > gallons in a long tank. I think they'll be alright. I'm not trying to be a hefer here but you might want to consider the reaction of people who do have questions but don't want to speak up because they're afraid of the reaction they'll get like the one that was just given. Sometimes a sense of humor can be mistaken for meanness. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27115	From: Lisa	Date: 4/8/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Okay, we are starting to get off topic here people... Can we get back to the topic of discussion that we love? Our fishy friends?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27116	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

I agree with Carmen and John, Lenny knows stuff and is generous with his time in responding to newbies here. He certainly can be passionate about best practices for fish, but he is NOT mean. Being a 3-year newbie myself, I know it can hurt to hear that the rule you have lived by and painstakingly researched (i.e. the "one inch rule") is a fish-killing rule. But I think Lenny's intention is to help, not harm. So while some of us might have not used the term "fish-killing rule", it probably is harsh reality at least for some fish...maybe even most fish. The idea of angels in an 8G tank is pretty radical, so maybe it was asked off the top of the head before any research was done...maybe an email to this list was in lieu of research. Also I am not an experienced rainbow keeper, but I did research them briefly (many hours, but not extensively) and found in general the more common ones need a lot of swimming room and a large tank (larger than the 36" long tank I was stocking at the time). I do African Rift Lake cichlids, and don't know community tank species, but I can identify with the difficulty of overcoming tank-size requirements when helping a newbie. Also, AS a newbie I clung to the facts I had gathered from my research even in the face of conflicting advice of numerous experienced fishkeepers and I am sure annoyed the heck out of them. They eventually just stopped responding since they had already given me the answers! One thing you can say about Lenny...he NEVER stops responding, LOL! -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 2:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] re: (unknown) Raven, I did not jump on Lisa. I jumped on the idiot(s) who posted the YouTube video. You may want to go re-read my original reply. I specifically asked/advised Lisa to post my comments on the idiot's YouTube video page. As far as you bringing up the fish-killing "one inch rule".. it simply does not work and it's a shame you are relying on it. Any fish that is supposed to get over 3" needs much more than one gallon per inch. For example... can you put a 10" goldfish or oscar in a 10G tank? NO! They each need 5G per inch of fish as a bare minimum for water volume but they need bigger than 50G tanks due to their lifestyles. Your tank is seriously OVERSTOCKED and your fish will inevitably suffer because of it. Who ever came up with the fish-killing "one inch rule" is hereby nominated as a candidate for an R-A also! ;-) I would tell you to go read my blog about a better set of simple stocking guidelines that I and other experienced fish keepers worked up a few years ago but I know you wouldn't do it anyhow. But if you decide you want to learn proper stocking guidelines for your tank, feel free to visit my blog. The link to the article is on the right side. BTW.. the next time I talk to Rush, I'll let him know you think he's a moron. God, why can't I be a multi-millionaire moron when I grow up? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raven Mae Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 1:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re: (unknown) You know I realize that I may have gotton a little heated with the post I made but I was under the impression when I joined this group it was for people who whether new or not were looking for help with their fish and tanks. That they could come and ask questions and not get jumped on if they don't know everything about fishkeeping by those who apparently think they do. I don't even go to youtube and even I know it's just for fun and the majority of the stuff on there is for fun. It's not a great reference for fishkeeping. And replying to someone about laying down in the middle of traffic being a good idea instead of explaining to them what would be a better situation for the types of fish they would like to get isn't exactly a great way to show your humor. And by the way Rush Limbaugh is a moron. And not funny. You don't have to point out for the 5th time my tank is overstocked. The rule of thumb is one inch of fish per gallon of water. 60 gallons in a long tank. I think they'll be alright. I'm not trying to be a hefer here but you might want to consider the reaction of people who do have questions but don't want to speak up because they're afraid of the reaction they'll get like the one that was just given. Sometimes a sense of humor can be mistaken for meanness. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1366 - Release Date: 4/8/2008 5:03 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27117	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Silly question

Can you use childrens playsand in fish aquariums or should i stick with aquarium sand? --- Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > The water that angels are found in the wild is > acidic, the tank ranged angels have been acclimated > to higher pH levels, so if you tend to run a bit > acidic, not to worry. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lisa > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Silly question > > What does the PH need to be for angels? > For some reason my books don't tell me... > > Thanks > Lisa > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27118	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

Alright, getting back on topic (at least for the moment), a pair or trio of the Honey/Sunset Dwarf Gourami's (Colisa chuna) would work out fine -- and they're colorful. Except for more frequent reports of some males' recent aggressiveness, I might also recommend the regular Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia), but this recent adverse characteristic of their reported behavior by some prompts me to dissuade you from this species at least in this size tank. With 160 square inches of surface space though, this leaves a lot of options open including a small group (7 or so) of medium size (2 1/2") Tetras. I'd stay away from the Black Tetras though, as here's another otherwise peaceful species (at least they were so, years ago) which have seemingly become aggressive in recent years. Makes one wonder if maybe they're crossing them with Piranas lately in the Far East <g>. Couldn't help to take notice though -- just as the YouTube site was not the most informative, the site listed here is not one of the best to go to for information, but then it IS difficult for the relative beginner to know what information is best to rely on. At least a number of the "varieties" of Dwarf and Honey/Sunset Gourami's are not bred to achieve these colorations; some of these are dyed varieties which should be avoided by the more concerned hobbyist due to the inhumane methods used to color them. I point this out partially as while its commendable for a newer hobbyist to perservere in the hobby (apparently with at least some success, which is always good to recognize), 3 years is not really a long time to be maintaining aquariums. The actual amount of time spent maintaining tanks though, does not directly reflect the experience gained which may be considerably more depending in part by the interest put into it. Still, there is nothing like reading a good factual source book on the hobby to gain needed info, rather than rely on so many distorted sources of info on the 'Net, some of which cannot be distinguished as such by the beginner. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Okay. So assuming I have an 8 gallon (In good condition) And a goldfish > and even angels are out of the question, what about dwarf gouramis? > I found this site; http://www.bayfish.com.au/category16_1.htm > > Or perhaps some Australian rainbow fish? > > I'm trying to work out what I can put in an 8 gal here. > You guys have been an enormous help so far, so thanks : ) > Keep it up > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27119	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Silly question

Yes you can but often times, it is more of a dirty sand so you might have to spend a lot of time rinsing it. A source of usually clean sand is a swimming pool supply retailer. Sand is used in many pool filter systems so they sell it at a reasonable price. Shop around and check out the actual granules of sand since some sands have sharper edges than others.... if you are planning on fish that might burrow in the sand or other bottom dwellers. Also check out getting some MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snails) as they will also burrow into the sand which will help keep it from getting compacted. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Walker Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Silly question Can you use childrens playsand in fish aquariums or should i stick with aquarium sand? --- Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: > The water that angels are found in the wild is acidic, the tank ranged > angels have been acclimated to higher pH levels, so if you tend to run > a bit acidic, not to worry. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Silly question > > What does the PH need to be for angels? > For some reason my books don't tell me... > > Thanks > Lisa > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1366 - Release Date: 4/8/2008 5:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27120	From: bmp	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

I don't want to add oil to the flames here. However, I am stating that I most appreciate the replies when they are relevant to the questions asked and do not include any irrelevant political, sexist or other opinionated material. I was offended when a female member here was called "Hillary" just because she stood up for what she saw as an attack on another member's postings. There have been other instances of belittling statements by adults who should have been raised better than that. If I can ignore the obvious political and ideological affiliations of some of the frequent responders I believe other people can too. Yours in peaceful fishkeeping, Beverly --- Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > I agree with Carmen and John, Lenny knows stuff and > is generous with his > time in responding to newbies here. > > He certainly can be passionate about best practices > for fish, but he is NOT > mean. Being a 3-year newbie myself, I know it can > hurt to hear that the > rule you have lived by and painstakingly researched > (i.e. the "one inch > rule") is a fish-killing rule. But I think Lenny's > intention is to help, > not harm. > > So while some of us might have not used the term > "fish-killing rule", it > probably is harsh reality at least for some > fish...maybe even most fish. > > The idea of angels in an 8G tank is pretty radical, > so maybe it was asked > off the top of the head before any research was > done...maybe an email to > this list was in lieu of research. > > Also I am not an experienced rainbow keeper, but I > did research them briefly > (many hours, but not extensively) and found in > general the more common ones > need a lot of swimming room and a large tank (larger > than the 36" long tank > I was stocking at the time). > > I do African Rift Lake cichlids, and don't know > community tank species, but > I can identify with the difficulty of overcoming > tank-size requirements when > helping a newbie. Also, AS a newbie I clung to the > facts I had gathered > from my research even in the face of conflicting > advice of numerous > experienced fishkeepers and I am sure annoyed the > heck out of them. They > eventually just stopped responding since they had > already given me the > answers! > > One thing you can say about Lenny...he NEVER stops > responding, LOL! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 2:58 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] re: (unknown) > > Raven, > > I did not jump on Lisa. I jumped on the idiot(s) > who posted the YouTube > video. You may want to go re-read my original > reply. I specifically > asked/advised Lisa to post my comments on the > idiot's YouTube video page. > > As far as you bringing up the fish-killing "one inch > rule".. it simply does > not work and it's a shame you are relying on it. > Any fish that is supposed > to get over 3" needs much more than one gallon per > inch. For example... can > you put a 10" goldfish or oscar in a 10G tank? NO! > They each need 5G per > inch of fish as a bare minimum for water volume but > they need bigger than > 50G tanks due to their lifestyles. Your tank is > seriously OVERSTOCKED and > your fish will inevitably suffer because of it. Who > ever came up with the > fish-killing "one inch rule" is hereby nominated as > a candidate for an R-A > also! ;-) > > I would tell you to go read my blog about a better > set of simple stocking > guidelines that I and other experienced fish keepers > worked up a few years > ago but I know you wouldn't do it anyhow. But if > you decide you want to > learn proper stocking guidelines for your tank, feel > free to visit my blog. > The link to the article is on the right side. > > BTW.. the next time I talk to Rush, I'll let him > know you think he's a > moron. God, why can't I be a multi-millionaire > moron when I grow up? ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raven Mae > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 1:00 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] re: (unknown) > > You know I realize that I may have gotton a little > heated with the post I > made but I was under the impression when I joined > this group it was for > people who whether new or not were looking for help > with their fish and > tanks. That they could come and ask questions and > not get jumped on if they > don't know everything about fishkeeping by those who > apparently think they > do. I don't even go to youtube and even I know it's > just for fun and the > majority of the stuff on there is for fun. It's not > a great reference for > fishkeeping. And replying to someone about laying > down in the middle of > traffic being a good idea instead of explaining to > them what would be a > better situation for the types of fish they would > like to get isn't exactly > a great way to show your humor. And by the way Rush > Limbaugh is a moron. And > not funny. You don't have to point out for the 5th > time my tank is > overstocked. The rule of thumb is one inch of fish > per gallon of water. 60 > gallons in a long tank. I think they'll be alright. > I'm not trying to be a > hefer here but you might want to consider the > reaction of people who do have > questions but don't want to speak up because they're > afraid of the reaction > they'll get like the one that was just given. > Sometimes a sense of humor can > be mistaken for meanness. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1366 - > Release Date: 4/8/2008 > 5:03 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> > ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , > ..´¯`...<º((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Peace, please! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27121	From: scrapbookjulia	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: German Blue Ram Eggs! Help!

Hi everyone, I I came home today and did my usual post work scan of each tank and I noticed that one of my female rams was leaning sideways on a leaf. My first thought was that she was sick, but then I noticed that there were little brown specks on the leaf. I have eggs! And quite a few of them. Problem is I have no idea what to do now! My fish breeding experience is limited to live-bearers but I really have no clue what I need to do here with the rams. Should I remove the eggs? keep the parents in there? I have several other fish in this tank too. WIll the rams protect their eggs? THey seem to be very vigilant about keeping everyone else away from. When should I Expect babies? I have a pretty heavily planted tank with some java moss, but not much else for bushy baby hiding plants. should I add more Java moss? HELP!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27122	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: German Blue Ram Eggs! Help!

Hi Julia, This article http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Gallade_Max_Breeding_Microgeo_r amirezi.html goes into detail all of the questions you have. I'm just home for lunch and I'm sure others will chime in but start reading this article which hopefully will get you on the right track and give you peace of mind. Rams are normally very good parents so all you'll have to do is get together some fry food. The parents will guard the eggs and eventual fry, herd up the fry when they try to venture off, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of scrapbookjulia Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 11:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] German Blue Ram Eggs! Help! Hi everyone, I I came home today and did my usual post work scan of each tank and I noticed that one of my female rams was leaning sideways on a leaf. My first thought was that she was sick, but then I noticed that there were little brown specks on the leaf. I have eggs! And quite a few of them. Problem is I have no idea what to do now! My fish breeding experience is limited to live-bearers but I really have no clue what I need to do here with the rams. Should I remove the eggs? keep the parents in there? I have several other fish in this tank too. WIll the rams protect their eggs? THey seem to be very vigilant about keeping everyone else away from. When should I Expect babies? I have a pretty heavily planted tank with some java moss, but not much else for bushy baby hiding plants. should I add more Java moss? HELP!!! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1366 - Release Date: 4/8/2008 5:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27123	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Being a newbie myself I can say that I have learned a whole lot in a short time by reading Lenny's blog and his post. I see a lot of humor in his post. Yes I thought he was coming on a little strong at first. I soon realized that he was speaking with the confidence of knowing what he was talking about. I often have my wife (who has very little interest in the hobby) read his post because of the humor. It is just his way of making a point. If you take it personal that's tuff, but he is giving you good advise. Being successful and taking good care of the fish is what keeps one interested in the hobby. Otherwise the aquariums wind up in the attack (as I once read somewhere). Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 6:13:28 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] re: (unknown) I agree with Carmen and John, Lenny knows stuff and is generous with his time in responding to newbies here. He certainly can be passionate about best practices for fish, but he is NOT mean. Being a 3-year newbie myself, I know it can hurt to hear that the rule you have lived by and painstakingly researched (i.e. the "one inch rule") is a fish-killing rule. But I think Lenny's intention is to help, not harm. So while some of us might have not used the term "fish-killing rule", it probably is harsh reality at least for some fish...maybe even most fish. The idea of angels in an 8G tank is pretty radical, so maybe it was asked off the top of the head before any research was done...maybe an email to this list was in lieu of research. Also I am not an experienced rainbow keeper, but I did research them briefly (many hours, but not extensively) and found in general the more common ones need a lot of swimming room and a large tank (larger than the 36" long tank I was stocking at the time). I do African Rift Lake cichlids, and don't know community tank species, but I can identify with the difficulty of overcoming tank-size requirements when helping a newbie. Also, AS a newbie I clung to the facts I had gathered from my research even in the face of conflicting advice of numerous experienced fishkeepers and I am sure annoyed the heck out of them. They eventually just stopped responding since they had already given me the answers! One thing you can say about Lenny...he NEVER stops responding, LOL! -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 2:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] re: (unknown) Raven, I did not jump on Lisa. I jumped on the idiot(s) who posted the YouTube video. You may want to go re-read my original reply. I specifically asked/advised Lisa to post my comments on the idiot's YouTube video page. As far as you bringing up the fish-killing "one inch rule".. it simply does not work and it's a shame you are relying on it. Any fish that is supposed to get over 3" needs much more than one gallon per inch. For example... can you put a 10" goldfish or oscar in a 10G tank? NO! They each need 5G per inch of fish as a bare minimum for water volume but they need bigger than 50G tanks due to their lifestyles. Your tank is seriously OVERSTOCKED and your fish will inevitably suffer because of it. Who ever came up with the fish-killing "one inch rule" is hereby nominated as a candidate for an R-A also! ;-) I would tell you to go read my blog about a better set of simple stocking guidelines that I and other experienced fish keepers worked up a few years ago but I know you wouldn't do it anyhow. But if you decide you want to learn proper stocking guidelines for your tank, feel free to visit my blog. The link to the article is on the right side. BTW.. the next time I talk to Rush, I'll let him know you think he's a moron. God, why can't I be a multi-millionaire moron when I grow up? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raven Mae Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 1:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re: (unknown) You know I realize that I may have gotton a little heated with the post I made but I was under the impression when I joined this group it was for people who whether new or not were looking for help with their fish and tanks. That they could come and ask questions and not get jumped on if they don't know everything about fishkeeping by those who apparently think they do. I don't even go to youtube and even I know it's just for fun and the majority of the stuff on there is for fun. It's not a great reference for fishkeeping. And replying to someone about laying down in the middle of traffic being a good idea instead of explaining to them what would be a better situation for the types of fish they would like to get isn't exactly a great way to show your humor. And by the way Rush Limbaugh is a moron. And not funny. You don't have to point out for the 5th time my tank is overstocked. The rule of thumb is one inch of fish per gallon of water. 60 gallons in a long tank. I think they'll be alright. I'm not trying to be a hefer here but you might want to consider the reaction of people who do have questions but don't want to speak up because they're afraid of the reaction they'll get like the one that was just given. Sometimes a sense of humor can be mistaken for meanness. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1366 - Release Date: 4/8/2008 5:03 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .��`..��.><((((�>..��`..��..��`...�><((((�> �..��`..�. , ..��`...><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><..��`..��..��`..�<�((((><�..��`..�. , ..��`...<�((((><.��`..��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27124	From: Kate	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Fish identification/ Probable Nannostomus Beckfordi

Hey all, I was taken with a new fish at my lfs today. The gal there said it was a Nannostomus Beckfordi but probably a dwarf variation and might not get much bigger. It was about an inch long and bright gold with black almost vertical(slightly diagnal) bars. It didn't look like any of the N.B. I've seen before and I can't find any pictures online that resemble this fish. Is that just what the juveniles look like? Does this sound familiar to anyone? Can you tell me anything about them? There were two and they were never more than a couple inches apart. Very cool little fish! Thanks, Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27125	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

I really agree about the color of the Honey Gouramis - I absolutely adore my two. They are like butterflies in the tank - swimming and gliding all over it. I have been searching for more, but have only seen the sunset variety lately and I'm too hooked on the honey. So far they are only about the size of a quarter - the brightest yellow with a bluish chin (? :). In a message dated 4/9/2008 9:16:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sevenspringss@... writes: Alright, getting back on topic (at least for the moment), a pair or trio of the Honey/Sunset Dwarf Gourami's (Colisa chuna) would work out fine -- and they're colorful. Except for more frequent reports of some males' recent aggressiveness, I might also recommend the regular Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia), but this recent adverse characteristic of their reported behavior by some prompts me to dissuade you from this species at least in this size tank. With 160 square inches of surface space though, this leaves a lot of options open including a small group (7 or so) of medium size (2 1/2") Tetras. I'd stay away from the Black Tetras though, as here's another otherwise peaceful species (at least they were so, years ago) which have seemingly become aggressive in recent years. Makes one wonder if maybe they're crossing them with Piranas lately in the Far East <g>. Couldn't help to take notice though -- just as the YouTube site was not the most informative, the site listed here is not one of the best to go to for information, but then it IS difficult for the relative beginner to know what information is best to rely on. At least a number of the "varieties" of Dwarf and Honey/Sunset Gourami's are not bred to achieve these colorations; some of these are dyed varieties which should be avoided by the more concerned hobbyist due to the inhumane methods used to color them. I point this out partially as while its commendable for a newer hobbyist to perservere in the hobby (apparently with at least some success, which is always good to recognize), 3 years is not really a long time to be maintaining aquariums. The actual amount of time spent maintaining tanks though, does not directly reflect the experience gained which may be considerably more depending in part by the interest put into it. Still, there is nothing like reading a good factual source book on the hobby to gain needed info, rather than rely on so many distorted sources of info on the 'Net, some of which cannot be distinguished as such by the beginner. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Okay. So assuming I have an 8 gallon (In good condition) And a goldfish > and even angels are out of the question, what about dwarf gouramis? > I found this site; http://www.bayfish.com.au/category16_1.htm > > Or perhaps some Australian rainbow fish? > > I'm trying to work out what I can put in an 8 gal here. > You guys have been an enormous help so far, so thanks : ) > Keep it up… > > Lisa **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27126	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

I adore the Sprakling Gouramis although some think they're a bit drab. Maxmillionmaxcat@... wrote: I really agree about the color of the Honey Gouramis - I absolutely adore my two. They are like butterflies in the tank - swimming and gliding all over it. I have been searching for more, but have only seen the sunset variety lately and I'm too hooked on the honey. So far they are only about the size of a quarter - the brightest yellow with a bluish chin (? :). In a message dated 4/9/2008 9:16:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sevenspringss@... writes: Alright, getting back on topic (at least for the moment), a pair or trio of the Honey/Sunset Dwarf Gourami's (Colisa chuna) would work out fine -- and they're colorful. Except for more frequent reports of some males' recent aggressiveness, I might also recommend the regular Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia), but this recent adverse characteristic of their reported behavior by some prompts me to dissuade you from this species at least in this size tank. With 160 square inches of surface space though, this leaves a lot of options open including a small group (7 or so) of medium size (2 1/2") Tetras. I'd stay away from the Black Tetras though, as here's another otherwise peaceful species (at least they were so, years ago) which have seemingly become aggressive in recent years. Makes one wonder if maybe they're crossing them with Piranas lately in the Far East <g>. Couldn't help to take notice though -- just as the YouTube site was not the most informative, the site listed here is not one of the best to go to for information, but then it IS difficult for the relative beginner to know what information is best to rely on. At least a number of the "varieties" of Dwarf and Honey/Sunset Gourami's are not bred to achieve these colorations; some of these are dyed varieties which should be avoided by the more concerned hobbyist due to the inhumane methods used to color them. I point this out partially as while its commendable for a newer hobbyist to perservere in the hobby (apparently with at least some success, which is always good to recognize), 3 years is not really a long time to be maintaining aquariums. The actual amount of time spent maintaining tanks though, does not directly reflect the experience gained which may be considerably more depending in part by the interest put into it. Still, there is nothing like reading a good factual source book on the hobby to gain needed info, rather than rely on so many distorted sources of info on the 'Net, some of which cannot be distinguished as such by the beginner. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Okay. So assuming I have an 8 gallon (In good condition) And a goldfish > and even angels are out of the question, what about dwarf gouramis? > I found this site; http://www.bayfish.com.au/category16_1.htm > > Or perhaps some Australian rainbow fish? > > I'm trying to work out what I can put in an 8 gal here. > You guys have been an enormous help so far, so thanks : ) > Keep it up… > > Lisa **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27127	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

Ray, Must be that more people are keeping the smaller gouramis properly to be reporting more aggressive behavior. I always thought the ranked right up there in the bad boy gourami hierarchy. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank... Alright, getting back on topic (at least for the moment), a pair or trio of the Honey/Sunset Dwarf Gourami's (Colisa chuna) would work out fine -- and they're colorful. Except for more frequent reports of some males' recent aggressiveness, I might also recommend the regular Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia), but this recent adverse characteristic of their reported behavior by some prompts me to dissuade you from this species at least in this size tank. With 160 square inches of surface space though, this leaves a lot of options open including a small group (7 or so) of medium size (2 1/2") Tetras. I'd stay away from the Black Tetras though, as here's another otherwise peaceful species (at least they were so, years ago) which have seemingly become aggressive in recent years. Makes one wonder if maybe they're crossing them with Piranas lately in the Far East <g>. Couldn't help to take notice though -- just as the YouTube site was not the most informative, the site listed here is not one of the best to go to for information, but then it IS difficult for the relative beginner to know what information is best to rely on. At least a number of the "varieties" of Dwarf and Honey/Sunset Gourami's are not bred to achieve these colorations; some of these are dyed varieties which should be avoided by the more concerned hobbyist due to the inhumane methods used to color them. I point this out partially as while its commendable for a newer hobbyist to perservere in the hobby (apparently with at least some success, which is always good to recognize), 3 years is not really a long time to be maintaining aquariums. The actual amount of time spent maintaining tanks though, does not directly reflect the experience gained which may be considerably more depending in part by the interest put into it. Still, there is nothing like reading a good factual source book on the hobby to gain needed info, rather than rely on so many distorted sources of info on the 'Net, some of which cannot be distinguished as such by the beginner. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Okay. So assuming I have an 8 gallon (In good condition) And a goldfish > and even angels are out of the question, what about dwarf gouramis? > I found this site; http://www.bayfish.com.au/category16_1.htm > > Or perhaps some Australian rainbow fish? > > I'm trying to work out what I can put in an 8 gal here. > You guys have been an enormous help so far, so thanks : ) > Keep it up... > > Lisa > ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27128	From: Lisa	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)

Hi Chad. Nice to meet you. Okay. So, No angels, goldfish or bala sharks (I already knew bout what size the sharks can get too) So what CAN i put in it? Heater included (...probably) How many tetras?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27129	From: Rob White	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

thanks you have been a great help thats just what i thought it might be currently in the process of reducing the number of catfish in my tank for the benefit of my other fish thanks again rob "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: The biggest part of your problem is that you are severely overstocked. For that stocking level, you should be doing at least daily 25% PWC's and even that will only be a temporary measure until you can rehome a lot of your fish... mainly all of the extra BN plecos. What might have worked two years ago will not continue to work as the fish get larger and you get more fish from them breeding. For example, if you have ten 1" fish and you are doing bi-weekly PWC's, then your fish grow to 2", you would need to do twice weekly PWC's to keep the water quality the same. Depending on the fish, many grow in body mass up to eight times for each time they double their length so a 2" fish would be equal to eight 1" fish when they were smaller. Your tank is probably only large enough for a single BN Pleco. 20-30 is 19-29 too many. Even a single BN Pleco can handle the algae growth of a 35G properly stocked tank. With all your extra fish, they are putting out so much ammonia that your filter and nitrifying bacteria colonies cannot handle the bioload which is why nature is causing the algae bloom. Without the algae bloom, your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels would likely be off the charts. The algae is helping consume the excess nutrients from all the fish but it's not helping with the excess hormones and stress being cause to your fish. If you do not immediately reduce the number of fish you have... sell some or give some away... Darwinism will reduce the number of fish for you. Darwinism is just my nice way of saying they will start to get sick and die early deaths.. survival of the fittest. Also and especially in a heavily stocked or overstocked tank, you must be cautious when doing filter maintenance and NEVER throw away your filter since you are throwing away the majority of your nitrifying bacteria when you do that which will put your tank into a mini-cycle causing ammonia/nitrite spikes which will permanently harm and/or kill your fish. Go to my blog and read over my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and take the online tutorials on the basics of fish keeping and read my article on proper "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning" so you do not continue making this mistake. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob White Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] cloudy water THANKS FOR YOUR REPLIE SO FAST I NEVER USED ANY OF THEM AQUA CLEAR BOTTLES IT WAS MADE BY A COMPANY CALLED NUTRIFIN I THINK THE FISH SHOP TOLD ME TO USE IT THERE USUALLY PRETTY GOOD AS FOR MY TANK IT IS A FLUVAL DUO DEEP 120 LITRES SHOULD SEE IT IF YOU GOGGLE IMAGE IT THE FISH I HAVE INSIDE ARE TROPICAL 4 BLACK WIDOW TETRAS 3 RUMMY NOSED TETRAS 3 CARDINAL TETRAS PLEASE FORGIVE ME BUT I DONT KNOW HOW MANY BRISTLENOSED CATFISH I HAVE AS THEY KEEP MULTIPLYING THERE COULD PROBALY BE BETWEEN TWENTY TO THIRTY IN THERE ITS FILTERED WITH A FLUVAL 3 PLUS SUBSTRATE IS SAND FEW PLANTS SORRY COULDNT TELL YOU WHAT THEY WERE FEW PLASTIC ONES ASWELL (SHAME ON ME) BOGWOOD LAVA ROCKS TERRECOTA PLANT POT AND A LANTERN LIGHTS ARE ON 10 HOURS A DAY BETWEEN 13.00 AND 22.00 I USED TO CLEAN OUT EVERY TWO WEEKS BEEN FINE FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS TAKE OUT BOUT 25% VACUM THE SAND CLEAN THE MEDIA IN THE WATER CHANGE MEDIA EVERY MONTH OR TWO DONT HAVE A CHEMICAL TESTER SO WOULDNT HAVE A CLUE ABOUT THE CHEMICALS INSIDE I LIVE IN THE COUNTRY AND THE WATER QUALITY OUT OF THE TAP IS PRETTY GOOD CHEERS MATE "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > wrote: If it's a green cloud, then it's usually an algae bloom. A white cloud is usually a bacterial bloom, oftentimes just the nitrifying bacteria blooming in response to a mini-cycle caused by over cleaning or changing the filter media. See my blog for my article on "Filter Cleaning & Maintenance" so you do not repeat this common mistake. Proper filter maintenance is much more critical on overstocked tanks and new set ups. DO NOT use chemical treatments as they will usually just make things worse... as you've seen. I did a quick Google on "Aqua Clear" and is this what you used? http://www.kwzone.com/products/links/science.htm (second product down on the left side?) That's not even for an algae bloom and none the less, you shouldn't be using that stuff (aka crap) or their Algae Clear (aka crap) in your tank either. Chemicals might clear things up temporarily but if you don't fix the root cause, then it's just going to turn your tank into a chemical waste dump suitable for listing on the EPA Superfund Site list. ;-) Usually algae blooms are caused by too many nutrients in the water (nitrogenous compounds, phosphates, etc.) and too much light. You can reduce the lighting period and do more frequent PWC's, gravel vacuuming and proper filter cleaning to reduce the nutrients in the water column. Tell us more about your tank. Size (never mind, I saw 120 L = 35G), fish and numbers of each, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness levels, your PWC (partial water change) schedule prior to this issue, etc. What kind of substrate? Are you vacuuming your substrate good with each PWC? Do you have any live plants? Any thing and every thing about your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of rob_white18 Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water please somebody help me i have a tropical fish tank housing mostly bristlenosed catfish few tetra so on the problem is my water has all of a sudden gone cloudy it also has a green twinge to it the fish are perfectly happy it just makes the tank look awful ive been trying to remedy the problem for months now ive tried aqua clear which worked then just made it worse now im on water changes weekly and after changing a massive 50% water which i know i should nt the problem got better for about 24 hours then within 72 hours it was back to the same cloudy mess i had to start with im contemplating starting a fresh please somebody help thanks oh by the way my tank holds 120 litres No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27130	From: Winbabyswife	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Finally found some guppies so I have a question.

I was replying to your post: Hello Lisa, To start with, I don't know where you came up with the > > idea that you can have one (1) fish per square inch of tank. Any > > aquarium literature you might have read to this effect is totally > > erroneous, unless these fish were 1/4" fry and the tank You said that you don't know where she got teh idea that you can keep fish one per 1 square inch. In her defense I said she has bettas and probably read that in a betta book. How is it that you do not understand what i said. I'm sorry i will use simpler words next time. and thank you for the answer about the platies. theer is soo much speculations about where teh colors come from in guppies, such as crossbreeding. tahoe_mommy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Yes, its understood that Lisa presently has a Betta. I don't think > that I quite understand your point though; some books say WHAT for > Bettas? I fail to see what you're trying to say. A lone Betta in a > 2 1/2 gallon tank is fine (having a 72 sq. inch surface area). Along > these same lines, Dr. Innes went on to state: "Labyrinth fishes > (Bettas, Paradise, Gouramies) need about half the amount of air > surface calculated for other fishes of the same size." To clarify, > the rational behind this, as most of us know, is that Anabantoid > fishes containing the auxilliary labyrinth breathing apparatus as > part of their anatomy can make direct use of atmospheric oxygen. I > had to catch myself there, as now with Badis and Dario species also > included in this same Family, a blanket statement of Anabantids > breathing air can no longer be used, although I'm sure the point is > well taken with Bettas. > > I'll agree that Bettas should not be stuffed into flower vases just > for the purpose of decoration. Most often, the recipient of such a > gift (and they are often given as gifts) do not know the first thing > about fish care. Coupled with that, I don't believe there is any > provision to feed the Betta in this situation, as there's little > access to the water's surface. This does not even begin to address > any filtration (or PWC) issues, which are completely absent with > these set-ups and are direly needed more so in some case over others > depending on the individual success (or failure) of the subject plant > involved. Fortunately, the species will at least tolerate > temperatures from 68 o to 90 o (and possibly a bit wider range), even > though it may not be in their best comfort at times, since "room > temperature" can have a wide meaning. > > While it would seem that Platies would (could?) breed with Guppies, > since they are both Livebearers, I have never heard of such a cross > and there may well be some reason why they won't (can't?) > interbreed. It has been already established though that guppies will > breed with mollies. No need for speculation when it comes to Platies > and Swordtails, as we know this is how various color strains of them > both were first established. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Winbabyswife" <amy_howell@> > wrote: > > > > She has a Betta. Some books say that for Bettas, which is why > Bettas > > are treated soo cruelly. I ran into that when I first started > keeping > > Bettas. It refers to Bettas as being for decoration only and > states > > that they can live in flower vases. Horrible care sheets for > Bettas > > are out there. > > > > I do have a male Betta in a 3 gallon biocube, and have the > filtration > > set to low. He loves it and is doing very well in that small > space, > > but he has filtration, and a heater. I used to keep females, who > lived > > for over 2 years. I had 5 females in a 10 gallon and then moved > them > > into a community tank (30 gallon) with barbs, and a clown loach, > and > > raspboros (sp?). > > > > Lisa for you questions on guppies. They require a heater, > filtration, > > and I would not put them in anything less than a 10 gallon. I love > the > > fancy tail guppies. I am probably wrong in telling you this, but > if > > you stick to the guppies, you can put 10 of them in a 10 gallon > without > > any troubles. Make sure you get males only.....otherwise you will > have > > 50 in no time. Same with Platy's, one sex or the other. Also I am > not > > sure but I have heard that he Platy will breed with the Guppy. If > > someone else knows this they can let the rest of us know? > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Lisa, To start with, I don't know where you came up with > the > > > idea that you can have one (1) fish per square inch of tank. Any > > > aquarium literature you might have read to this effect is totally > > > erroneous, unless these fish were 1/4" fry and the tank > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27131	From: Winbabyswife	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Isn't This A Fish Group Where You Can Get Help?

I have been just reading posts and trying to stay out of conversations lately, because there are some people in here that treat you like "if you don't know then you shouldn't own fish" I just checked the home page and this is still on it. Welcome to the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. This is the place to share experience, ask and answer questions, post photos of Fish ~ Plants ~ Aquariums and any Aquatic Life. Here we have a wide range of Fish Enthusiasts from Beginners to Professionals ~ Fish Lovers, Hobbyist, Breeders, Aquarists, Collectors, Naturalists, Advanced, Intermediate, Novice, Experts, Suppliers, Importers, Ichthyologists, Marine Biologists, Students, Scientists, LFS Owners and Employees. I really fear asking for help from this group, because it does not seem anyone wants to help me. There is a select few who actually do help, Lenny to name one. But there are others who reply to you acting like you should know that you can not put 4 angels in a 10 gallon tank. Where was the support and understanding that this person may really not know, which is why they joined this group. Anyways just my thoughts. I hope you guys who I am talking about kinda get a grip on your answers and the fact this is a group of very beginners to experts in fish care.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27132	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)

That would be dependent on the tetra species you choose. There are some tetras that can get quite large, while others stay pretty small. You could keep 6 neons or cardinals, with no other fish. Neons can be rather sensitive to water quality, particularly the smaller, younger ones, so you probably would want to pass on those. If you were to go with serape or bleeding hearts, you would probably be pushing it with three. Mention some tetras you would find interesting to keep, and we can help you with the number and other comments about them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown) Hi Chad. Nice to meet you. Okay. So, No angels, goldfish or bala sharks (I already knew bout what size the sharks can get too) So what CAN i put in it? Heater included (...probably) How many tetras?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27133	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)

"Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml would work as a good guideline for an 8G tank except you would have to reduce the number of fish by 20% or increase the PWC schedule by 20%. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown) Hi Chad. Nice to meet you. Okay. So, No angels, goldfish or bala sharks (I already knew bout what size the sharks can get too) So what CAN i put in it? Heater included (...probably) How many tetras? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1366 - Release Date: 4/8/2008 5:03 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1366 - Release Date: 4/8/2008 5:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27134	From: Lisa	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Solving the catfish riddle

I think I maybe have an id for my catfish which seems to be settling in nicely, and LOVES the crocodile skull I have in there. Anyway. This is what I think it is; http://www.bayfish.com.au/category8_2.htm Scroll down till you get to the `gold sucking catfish.' Or at least that's getting close to what it looks like. The dorsal and anal fins on mine are more semi transparent and it doesn't seem to have a `tail fin' It's somewhat like an eel's body. Kinda whip like and flat.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27135	From: Lisa	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)

Hi Steve I was thinking neons. But now i'm thinking giant danios...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27136	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)

I have some giant danios in my 90g. they are 5" plus and clear the 48" length of the tank on no time flat. Big and active in a tiny tank would be a really bad idea. Regular danios might work, though. They come in different color patterns, long finned or short, don't require a heated tank, and are very sturdy, pretty, and inexpensive... Carmen On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 10:44 PM, Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Steve > I was thinking neons. > But now i'm thinking giant danios...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27137	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)

Stretching my memory here, but, I think they are really too big to have more than a couple in that size tank. Also, they do need some swimming room. I did, at one time, keep 4 zebras (along with other fish) in a 5.5 gallon aquarium for several years. I think it was the several moves during the year that finally did them in prematurely (along with the others) as I was moving back and forth from school and my parents home at the time (hence the small tank) during all types of weather. My parents, however, did keep the dog that followed me home (on the airplane, yet! Try to do that today <g>.). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown) Hi Steve I was thinking neons. But now i'm thinking giant danios... ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27138	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)

I'm sure the Wright Brothers didn't mind you and the dog Beta testing their planes. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown) Stretching my memory here, but, I think they are really too big to have more than a couple in that size tank. Also, they do need some swimming room. I did, at one time, keep 4 zebras (along with other fish) in a 5.5 gallon aquarium for several years. I think it was the several moves during the year that finally did them in prematurely (along with the others) as I was moving back and forth from school and my parents home at the time (hence the small tank) during all types of weather. My parents, however, did keep the dog that followed me home (on the airplane, yet! Try to do that today <g>.). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown) Hi Steve I was thinking neons. But now i'm thinking giant danios... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.11 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27139	From: Lisa	Date: 4/9/2008
Subject: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)

I actually currently have 3 leopard danios. Used to have 6, but they have slowly been dieing off the last few months. And I am going overseas next month for 7 weeks so i'm not going to re- stock till i get back. But thanks for the tip on the giant ones.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27140	From: Lisa	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Bala sharks

Hypothetically. If I wanted two bala sharks. What are the requirements? Water chemistry and temp, diet, life span, tank setup, min tank size And please disregard my previous posts about the 8 gal tank. This is entirely about the bala sharks Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27141	From: Lisa	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Waaaaaaay to high!

Hello all (Waves) Hope you are all having a good day. I'm sure don't need to remind you all to keep on top of monitoring your water's ammonia levels among other things? I do my 100% water change on my betta tank each Sunday. This being Thursday evening I have at least another 2 ½ days before I was due. But I checked my ammonia, niterate, niterite, GH and KH, and PH tonight. And my ammonia level in pearl's tank was waaaaaaaaaaay above the acceptable level! No wonder the poor danios were darting around the tank like their tails were ablaze! All is good now though. And they are probably sending up little prayers and thanks to mommy They've been eating a mix of freeze-dried blood worms and live black worms the last week. That wouldn't have anything to do with abnormally high readings would it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27142	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Bala sharks

http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Balantiocheilus_melanopterus.html Read over the above profile and the reference links on the profile. 100G+, 8' long tank is the minimum needed for these fish which grow to 16" and are big-time swimmers. Lenny V. 504-621-1870 Pics/Info/IM - http://profiles.yahoo.com/LoverLennyV -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bala sharks Hypothetically. If I wanted two bala sharks. What are the requirements? Water chemistry and temp, diet, life span, tank setup, min tank size And please disregard my previous posts about the 8 gal tank. This is entirely about the bala sharks Thanks No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.11/1368 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 4:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27143	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Waaaaaaay to high!

Tell us more about the tank.. size, filtration, etc. You mention a Betta tank first and then mention danios. Are these fish in the same tank? It's not good to do 100% water changes as that changes the water parameters (temp, pH, etc.) too much, too fast, which is not good for fish. It would be better to do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) more frequently. 100% changes should only be used in the event of an emergency contamination or something like that. Is the tank filtered? If it is, then your tank isn't properly cycled since you should not be getting an ammonia or nitrite reading in a fully cycled tank. Go to my blog page called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and read my article on filter maintenance and cleaning so you won't make the common mistakes made by lots of people because the filter instructions say so. While on the A to Z page, right near the top, take one or both of the free online tutorials which will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping so you can start to learn more... especially about the nitrogen cycle and how to keep it working properly in your tank(s). And yes, feeding them high protein foods will cause more waste but if the tank's filter system is properly cycled, it wouldn't normally pose a problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 5:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Waaaaaaay to high! Hello all (Waves) Hope you are all having a good day. I'm sure don't need to remind you all to keep on top of monitoring your water's ammonia levels among other things? I do my 100% water change on my betta tank each Sunday. This being Thursday evening I have at least another 2 ½ days before I was due. But I checked my ammonia, niterate, niterite, GH and KH, and PH tonight. And my ammonia level in pearl's tank was waaaaaaaaaaay above the acceptable level! No wonder the poor danios were darting around the tank like their tails were ablaze! All is good now though. And they are probably sending up little prayers and thanks to mommy They've been eating a mix of freeze-dried blood worms and live black worms the last week. That wouldn't have anything to do with abnormally high readings would it? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.11/1368 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 4:20 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.11/1368 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 4:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27144	From: Lisa	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)

That URL didn't work for me.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking- list.h > tml

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27145	From: Lisa	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Bala sharks

Hypothetically. If I wanted two bala sharks. What are the requirements? Water chemistry, diet, life span, tank setup, min tank size And please disregard my previous posts about the 8 gal tank. This is entirely about the bala sharks Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27146	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

Hi Steve, Kind of looks like more people are successfully keeping Dwarf Gouramis as you're saying -- else why would there be as many reports on them as there are. I don't know how far back this bad boy behavior can be attributed to them, which you can apparently attest to, but when I first started breeding this species back in '53, they were one of the most peaceful Gouramis one could have in their tank. This all seems to have turned around once they started to be bred in the Far East. Maybe its directly due to the Asian fish farmers not exporting the females with them (LOL). Or, the rumors that they may supposedly use hormones on them to have them develop as mostly males. Ditto, with the Black ("Black Skirt") Tetras. When I bred those back in the '50's, and at the same time kept them with other Tetras, their disposition was no different from any other peaceful Tetra. Now they are reported to be absolute terrors! A bit off-topic, but hopefully still allowable; look for me up at the NEC convention, I'll try to find you. I was initially planning on getting there Friday afternoon, but now it looks like I might not be able to make it until early Saturday morning. I want to catch Eric Bodrock's Catfish talk at 9AM, but I first need to set up my show fish; I'm one of the twenty attendees who were invited to participate in the 1st NEC William T. Innes competition, so will be bringing my entry. While he's not on this Forum, we should look up Steve (Guyger) - AHHS - since he indicated he was going again. See ya! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Must be that more people are keeping the smaller gouramis properly to be reporting more aggressive behavior. I always thought the ranked right up there in the bad boy gourami hierarchy. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank... > > Alright, getting back on topic (at least for the moment), a pair or > trio of the Honey/Sunset Dwarf Gourami's (Colisa chuna) would work > out fine -- and they're colorful. Except for more frequent reports > of some males' recent aggressiveness, I might also recommend the > regular Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia), but this recent adverse > characteristic of their reported behavior by some prompts me to > dissuade you from this species at least in this size tank. With 160 > square inches of surface space though, this leaves a lot of options > open including a small group (7 or so) of medium size (2 1/2") > Tetras. I'd stay away from the Black Tetras though, as here's > another otherwise peaceful species (at least they were so, years ago) > which have seemingly become aggressive in recent years. Makes one > wonder if maybe they're crossing them with Piranas lately in the Far > East <g>. > > Couldn't help to take notice though -- just as the YouTube site was > not the most informative, the site listed here is not one of the best > to go to for information, but then it IS difficult for the relative > beginner to know what information is best to rely on. At least a > number of the "varieties" of Dwarf and Honey/Sunset Gourami's are not > bred to achieve these colorations; some of these are dyed varieties > which should be avoided by the more concerned hobbyist due to the > inhumane methods used to color them. > > I point this out partially as while its commendable for a newer > hobbyist to perservere in the hobby (apparently with at least some > success, which is always good to recognize), 3 years is not really a > long time to be maintaining aquariums. The actual amount of time > spent maintaining tanks though, does not directly reflect the > experience gained which may be considerably more depending in part by > the interest put into it. Still, there is nothing like reading a > good factual source book on the hobby to gain needed info, rather > than rely on so many distorted sources of info on the 'Net, some of > which cannot be distinguished as such by the beginner. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > wrote: > > > > Okay. So assuming I have an 8 gallon (In good condition) And a > goldfish > > and even angels are out of the question, what about dwarf gouramis? > > I found this site; http://www.bayfish.com.au/category16_1.htm > > > > Or perhaps some Australian rainbow fish? > > > > I'm trying to work out what I can put in an 8 gal here. > > You guys have been an enormous help so far, so thanks : ) > > Keep it up... > > > > Lisa > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27147	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei

Well after trying further I found that the fish is actually a Nannostomus espei. I can't find much about their care that I can read; most of it is in languages other than English. Does anyone have any info on these fish? What they eat etc? One site talked about mosquitoe larvae so I'm wondering if I could do frozen daphnia. Any thoughts? Kate Kate <k8hardy@...> wrote: Hey all, I was taken with a new fish at my lfs today. The gal there said it was a Nannostomus Beckfordi but probably a dwarf variation and might not get much bigger. It was about an inch long and bright gold with black almost vertical(slightly diagnal) bars. It didn't look like any of the N.B. I've seen before and I can't find any pictures online that resemble this fish. Is that just what the juveniles look like? Does this sound familiar to anyone? Can you tell me anything about them? There were two and they were never more than a couple inches apart. Very cool little fish! Thanks, Kate __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27148	From: Debra	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Solving the catfish riddle

> > http://www.bayfish.com.au/category8_2.htm > Scroll down till you get to the `gold sucking catfish.' > Lisa: Thank you for sharing the link. I have a Gold Sucking Catfish although it came in a group of what was advertised as Siamese Algae Eaters. I got them all when they were about an inch long. Ny Gold guy is about four inches long now and the others are upwards of six or seven incehes. My goldie is very shy and darts off when I spend too much time admiring him. Deb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27149	From: hank voss	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> wrote: ============================== Kate: N. Espei have the same requirments as most other pencils.They prefer soft acid water.They are probably wild fish since very few people keep or breed them since they are not that colorful.I have not seen them for at least 7 yrs.They spawn like other pencils(place eggs on plants)hatch time is the same around 36 hrs.(dep. on tank temp) They prefer live food but will eat frozen food and also dry food.Since they have small mouths the food should be an appropiats size.Their young are quite small and need infusoria for first food.They will take Mos. larvae.Frozen daphnia is ok but not very nutricious. Females are rounder(belly)than the males.The males are slim and usually a little richer in color. Regards Hank > Well after trying further I found that the fish is actually a Nannostomus espei. I can't find much about their care that I can read; most of it is in languages other than English. Does anyone have any info on these fish? What they eat etc? One site talked about mosquitoe larvae so I'm wondering if I could do frozen daphnia. Any thoughts? > Kate______________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27150	From: hank voss	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: ================================ Hi Ray: I have to more or less disagree with you on Nasty male D.gouramis and black tets.Years back(even further than you go)D--- im getting old.O well I always found quite a few of the males to be quite aggressive.esp. the dwarfs.Nowadays since no one sends females the dominate male will raise hell with any othermale.And every once in a while you get the one fish that wants to be boss of the whole tank. Dont all males get that way when theres no females around(human or animal)? Even the fish are on steriods now. Regards Hank > Hi Steve, Kind of looks like more people are successfully keeping > Dwarf Gouramis as you're saying -- else why would there be as many > reports on them as there are. I don't know how far back this bad boy > behavior can be attributed to them, which you can apparently attest > to, but when I first started breeding this species back in '53, they > were one of the most peaceful Gouramis one could have in their tank. > This all seems to have turned around once they started to be bred in > the Far East. Maybe its directly due to the Asian fish farmers not > exporting the females with them (LOL). Or, the rumors that they may > supposedly use hormones on them to have them develop as mostly males. > > Ditto, with the Black ("Black Skirt") Tetras. When I bred those back > in the '50's, and at the same time kept them with other Tetras, their > disposition was no different from any other peaceful Tetra. Now they > are reported to be absolute terrors! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > thanks. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27151	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

Hi Hank, Thanks for filling me in on your experience with Dwarf Gouramis and Black Tetras as well. Having more experience you would know better, or at least have observed these fish to be aggressive. All's I can say is that I've never seen them to be so in my tanks. I've never worked with more than one male in a breeding set up(no need to), but even in community tanks, I've always seen them behave peacefully, although again with only one male present. Perhaps the behavior varies with each individual, as does in Angels. Or, maybe its the all-male population thing lately that we both brought up. The Blue (3-Spot) Gourami, or any of its variants, is a bad actor though, while I've found the Pearl Gourami a real charmer -- I especially like that one both for is appearance and its behavior. Now as for Black Tets, I've had them for years in average size(30 gallons, for instance) community tanks with various other Tetra species depending on the particular set up. Not disagreeing with what you've observed, after all this is what you've seen them to be, but I've had Black Tets with Head & Tail Lights, Tet Von Rio (Flame Tetras), Lemon Tetras, Glow Light Tetras, Neons, Serpaes and other guys like Rasboras (heteromopha), Rosey Barbs and Cherry Barbs to name a few and I can say I've never ever had a problem with them in my tanks. By the way, I seem to recall reading lately that Serpae's are bad news (hope I'm wrong on what I thought I read), but if this seems to be the case lately, again I've never had a problem with this fish 50 years ago. Now if you're looking at real bad actors, you don't have to go much further than the Blind Cave Tetra -- a real nasty sort. Don't see them around much anymore though. Most people have learned about the Tiger Barb, but there are still some beginners who get sucked in by its nice appearance. Too bad, but its reputation precedes it. Good talking with you, and thanks again for adding to this. Shows that fish can behave in various ways. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > ================================ > Hi Ray: > I have to more or less disagree with you on Nasty male > D.gouramis and black tets.Years back(even further than you go)D--- im > getting old.O well I always found quite a few of the males to be > quite aggressive.esp. the dwarfs.Nowadays since no one sends females > the dominate male will raise hell with any othermale.And every once > in a while you get the one fish that wants to be boss of the whole > tank. Dont all males get that way when theres no females around (human > or animal)? Even the fish are on steriods now. > > Regards Hank > > > Hi Steve, Kind of looks like more people are successfully keeping > > Dwarf Gouramis as you're saying -- else why would there be as many > > reports on them as there are. I don't know how far back this bad > boy > > behavior can be attributed to them, which you can apparently attest > > to, but when I first started breeding this species back in '53, > they > > were one of the most peaceful Gouramis one could have in their > tank. > > This all seems to have turned around once they started to be bred > in > > the Far East. Maybe its directly due to the Asian fish farmers not > > exporting the females with them (LOL). Or, the rumors that they > may > > supposedly use hormones on them to have them develop as mostly > males. > > > > Ditto, with the Black ("Black Skirt") Tetras. When I bred those > back > > in the '50's, and at the same time kept them with other Tetras, > their > > disposition was no different from any other peaceful Tetra. Now > they > > are reported to be absolute terrors! > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > thanks. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups > > Links > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27152	From: jett07002	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Isn't This A Fish Group Where You Can Get Help?

Hello, Amy: I just read your post, and I really don't understand the point you are trying to make. And, believe me, I am being sincere and do not mean it sarcastically. Every time I read these postings I find answer after answer to the questions that are being asked. I have been keeping fresh water tropical fish for many, many years and I seldom disagree with the advise given by especially Lenny, Steve Szabo or Ray Wetzel. Sometimes I think they only fault of these gentlemen is that in an effort to help, they may give an 'overdose' of help. When a beginner sees all of this information it may be overwhelming because they may not know what the adviser is talking about. That is understandable, also, especially if they completely new to the art. There is also some humor that is tried, especially by Lenny, to try and liven up what may otherwise turn out to be a boring subject. Let's not fail to realize that we are writing. We are not actually speaking to each other. So many things are interpreted by the reader's situation. Therefore, things may be taken up as an insult or some other put down and are really not meant to be. If you read the replies with an open mind, some are really funny, some are foolish and you may not find humor in them. But they are never maliciously directed at the one asking the question. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Winbabyswife" <amy_howell@...> wrote: > > I have been just reading posts and trying to stay out of conversations > lately, because there are some people in here that treat you like "if > you don't know then you shouldn't own fish" > > I just checked the home page and this is still on it. > > Welcome to the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > This is the place to share experience, ask and answer questions, post > photos of Fish ~ Plants ~ Aquariums and any Aquatic Life. > > Here we have a wide range of Fish Enthusiasts from Beginners to > Professionals ~ > Fish Lovers, Hobbyist, Breeders, Aquarists, Collectors, Naturalists, > Advanced, Intermediate, Novice, Experts, > Suppliers, Importers, Ichthyologists, Marine Biologists, Students, > Scientists, LFS Owners and Employees. > > I really fear asking for help from this group, because it does not seem > anyone wants to help me. There is a select few who actually do help, > Lenny to name one. But there are others who reply to you acting like > you should know that you can not put 4 angels in a 10 gallon tank. > Where was the support and understanding that this person may really not > know, which is why they joined this group. > > Anyways just my thoughts. I hope you guys who I am talking about kinda > get a grip on your answers and the fact this is a group of very > beginners to experts in fish care. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown)

Yeah... yahoogroups breaks long URL's... just go to my blog (link in my sig) and you'll see the link to the article on the right side about 1/2 way down. I actually sent you to that link in my first reply but I guess you didn't see it because of all them 18-wheelers driving around. ;-) LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Stocking an 8 Gal tank. Was; Re: (unknown) That URL didn't work for me.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking- > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking > -> list.h > tml No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.11/1368 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 4:20 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.11/1368 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 4:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27154	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei

Mongabay and Fishbase to the rescue again... http://fish.mongabay.net/N/Nannostomus_eques.shtml Mongabay doesn't seem to have a profile of their own but they do have a reference page with links to several other pages of info on them including the fishbase profile. It seems the eques and the espei are very similar or maybe the search just came up that way. Here's the fishbase.org profile on the espei... http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Guyan a&Genus=Nannostomus&Species=espei If the link breaks, go to http://fishbase.org and do a search on the latin name or try this link... http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10756 Always read all of the links on the More Info section of fishbase profiles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei Well after trying further I found that the fish is actually a Nannostomus espei. I can't find much about their care that I can read; most of it is in languages other than English. Does anyone have any info on these fish? What they eat etc? One site talked about mosquitoe larvae so I'm wondering if I could do frozen daphnia. Any thoughts? Kate Kate <k8hardy@... <mailto:k8hardy%40yahoo.com> > wrote: Hey all, I was taken with a new fish at my lfs today. The gal there said it was a Nannostomus Beckfordi but probably a dwarf variation and might not get much bigger. It was about an inch long and bright gold with black almost vertical(slightly diagnal) bars. It didn't look like any of the N.B. I've seen before and I can't find any pictures online that resemble this fish. Is that just what the juveniles look like? Does this sound familiar to anyone? Can you tell me anything about them? There were two and they were never more than a couple inches apart. Very cool little fish! Thanks, Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.11/1368 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 4:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27155	From: hank voss	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: ========================= Ray: AS a rule gouramis are docile and shy.The meanest gourami I ever had was a med.kisser(5-6in)it was a terror.I also had some bad blues and it usually turns out to be the males that fall into this group.With tetras buenos aires are one of the worst,tiger barbs a close second.The only trouble with blind caves is that anything their mouth touches it bites thusly a lot of nipped fins.When getting most fish its always better to get at least 3 of a kind as it helps spread out any aggression.I have not heard anything about serpaes,whats wrong with them? In closing I agree with everything you posted. Hank > but I've had Black Tets with Head & Tail Lights, Tet Von Rio (Flame > Tetras), Lemon Tetras, Glow Light Tetras, Neons, Serpaes and other > guys like Rasboras (heteromopha), Rosey Barbs and Cherry Barbs to > name a few and I can say I've never ever had a problem with them in > my tanks. By the way, I seem to recall reading lately that Serpae's > are bad news (hope I'm wrong on what I thought I read), but if this > seems to be the case lately, again I've never had a problem with this > fish 50 years ago. > > Now if you're looking at real bad actors, you don't have to go much > further than the Blind Cave Tetra -- a real nasty sort. Don't see > them around much anymore though. Most people have learned about the > Tiger Barb, but there are still some beginners who get sucked in by > its nice appearance. Too bad, but its reputation precedes it. Good > talking with you, and thanks again for adding to this. Shows that > fish can behave in various ways. Ray > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > thanks. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > > ((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > > subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > > > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > > Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27156	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei

Thank you very much Hank and Lenny. I apprciate the info! Kate "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Mongabay and Fishbase to the rescue again... http://fish.mongabay.net/N/Nannostomus_eques.shtml Mongabay doesn't seem to have a profile of their own but they do have a reference page with links to several other pages of info on them including the fishbase profile. It seems the eques and the espei are very similar or maybe the search just came up that way. Here's the fishbase.org profile on the espei... http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Guyan a&Genus=Nannostomus&Species=espei If the link breaks, go to http://fishbase.org and do a search on the latin name or try this link... http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10756 Always read all of the links on the More Info section of fishbase profiles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei Well after trying further I found that the fish is actually a Nannostomus espei. I can't find much about their care that I can read; most of it is in languages other than English. Does anyone have any info on these fish? What they eat etc? One site talked about mosquitoe larvae so I'm wondering if I could do frozen daphnia. Any thoughts? Kate Kate > wrote: Hey all, I was taken with a new fish at my lfs today. The gal there said it was a Nannostomus Beckfordi but probably a dwarf variation and might not get much bigger. It was about an inch long and bright gold with black almost vertical(slightly diagnal) bars. It didn't look like any of the N.B. I've seen before and I can't find any pictures online that resemble this fish. Is that just what the juveniles look like? Does this sound familiar to anyone? Can you tell me anything about them? There were two and they were never more than a couple inches apart. Very cool little fish! Thanks, Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.11/1368 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 4:20 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27157	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei

If you use Firefox a your browser, you can get an add-in to do the translations for you. Translations are not perfect, but the meaning should come across. It uses a number of translation engines, depending upon the language from and to. I do not know your familiarity with foreign languages, but you may be able to get a clue from the TLD of the URL, i.e. .uk is great Britain, and .de is Germany. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei Well after trying further I found that the fish is actually a Nannostomus espei. I can't find much about their care that I can read; most of it is in languages other than English. Does anyone have any info on these fish? What they eat etc? One site talked about mosquitoe larvae so I'm wondering if I could do frozen daphnia. Any thoughts? Kate Kate <k8hardy@...> wrote: Hey all, I was taken with a new fish at my lfs today. The gal there said it was a Nannostomus Beckfordi but probably a dwarf variation and might not get much bigger. It was about an inch long and bright gold with black almost vertical(slightly diagnal) bars. It didn't look like any of the N.B. I've seen before and I can't find any pictures online that resemble this fish. Is that just what the juveniles look like? Does this sound familiar to anyone? Can you tell me anything about them? There were two and they were never more than a couple inches apart. Very cool little fish! Thanks, Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27158	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: NEC Meeting WAWS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 ye

Ray, I am leaving in the morning, and will hopefully be there by 5 PM, but I do need to make a stop at a client's business first, so that plan my get blown out of the water. Usually it takes me 6-7 hours to get to Farmington. I know Steve G, and he was there two years ago. They had him playing away most of Saturday night. For those of you who do not know, the NEC is an annual affair put on by the Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies. It used to be called the Winter Weekend Workshop. They now call it a convention. This is the 33rd year. I have missed 4, by someone else's count. The speakers are the main attraction for the weekend, and the auction on Sunday is something to behold. Speakers this year include Eric Bodrock, Charles Clapsaddle, Chuck Davis, Eric Do, Mike Hellweg, Jim Gasior, Dean Hougen, Bob Larson, Steve Lundblad, Luis Navarro, and Mike Schadle. As Ray alluded to, there is a mini-show for those in the running for the William T. Innes Award. This award is given to a person who has helped promote the hobby through his efforts showing fish at NEC member club shows. This is the first annual award ceremony, and I hope it continues for many years to come. This competition had its genesis with Alan Mark Fletcher, and he may be on hand to present the first winner with his/her prize. Alan may be the last living person to have worked with William T. Innes. If you are in New England, New York, or New Jersey, and you want to check this event out, you are more than welcome to come to Farmington, CT, and join Ray, myself and many more hobbyists this weekend. More information can be found at http://northeastcouncil.org \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank... Hi Steve, Kind of looks like more people are successfully keeping Dwarf Gouramis as you're saying -- else why would there be as many reports on them as there are. I don't know how far back this bad boy behavior can be attributed to them, which you can apparently attest to, but when I first started breeding this species back in '53, they were one of the most peaceful Gouramis one could have in their tank. This all seems to have turned around once they started to be bred in the Far East. Maybe its directly due to the Asian fish farmers not exporting the females with them (LOL). Or, the rumors that they may supposedly use hormones on them to have them develop as mostly males. Ditto, with the Black ("Black Skirt") Tetras. When I bred those back in the '50's, and at the same time kept them with other Tetras, their disposition was no different from any other peaceful Tetra. Now they are reported to be absolute terrors! A bit off-topic, but hopefully still allowable; look for me up at the NEC convention, I'll try to find you. I was initially planning on getting there Friday afternoon, but now it looks like I might not be able to make it until early Saturday morning. I want to catch Eric Bodrock's Catfish talk at 9AM, but I first need to set up my show fish; I'm one of the twenty attendees who were invited to participate in the 1st NEC William T. Innes competition, so will be bringing my entry. While he's not on this Forum, we should look up Steve (Guyger) - AHHS - since he indicated he was going again. See ya! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Must be that more people are keeping the smaller gouramis properly to be reporting more aggressive behavior. I always thought the ranked right up there in the bad boy gourami hierarchy. > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27159	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

I find the dwarf gouramis to be fairly timid when kept in a tank without hiding spots. Put into a well planted tank, however, or, I suppose, one where they can stake out a territory by other means, and be hidden when they want, and you have one righteous terror on your hands. I learned this lesson in the late 60's or early 70's (sorry, I no longer have notes on that period). It has been a while since I kept them. However, all the inbreeding that has gone into developing the various color strains may have contributed to the aggressiveness of the fish, since the good traits get passed along with traits that may be less desirable. I can't speak for the black tetras, since I have not kept them since I was a kid. As I seem to recall, they were somewhat nippy fellows back then, but I may not have been keeping enough of them in the tank together to ease this behavior. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank... Hi Steve, Kind of looks like more people are successfully keeping Dwarf Gouramis as you're saying -- else why would there be as many reports on them as there are. I don't know how far back this bad boy behavior can be attributed to them, which you can apparently attest to, but when I first started breeding this species back in '53, they were one of the most peaceful Gouramis one could have in their tank. This all seems to have turned around once they started to be bred in the Far East. Maybe its directly due to the Asian fish farmers not exporting the females with them (LOL). Or, the rumors that they may supposedly use hormones on them to have them develop as mostly males. Ditto, with the Black ("Black Skirt") Tetras. When I bred those back in the '50's, and at the same time kept them with other Tetras, their disposition was no different from any other peaceful Tetra. Now they are reported to be absolute terrors! A bit off-topic, but hopefully still allowable; look for me up at the NEC convention, I'll try to find you. I was initially planning on getting there Friday afternoon, but now it looks like I might not be able to make it until early Saturday morning. I want to catch Eric Bodrock's Catfish talk at 9AM, but I first need to set up my show fish; I'm one of the twenty attendees who were invited to participate in the 1st NEC William T. Innes competition, so will be bringing my entry. While he's not on this Forum, we should look up Steve (Guyger) - AHHS - since he indicated he was going again. See ya! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Must be that more people are keeping the smaller gouramis properly to be reporting more aggressive behavior. I always thought the ranked right up there in the bad boy gourami hierarchy. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank... > > Alright, getting back on topic (at least for the moment), a pair or > trio of the Honey/Sunset Dwarf Gourami's (Colisa chuna) would work > out fine -- and they're colorful. Except for more frequent reports > of some males' recent aggressiveness, I might also recommend the > regular Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia), but this recent adverse > characteristic of their reported behavior by some prompts me to > dissuade you from this species at least in this size tank. With 160 > square inches of surface space though, this leaves a lot of options > open including a small group (7 or so) of medium size (2 1/2") > Tetras. I'd stay away from the Black Tetras though, as here's > another otherwise peaceful species (at least they were so, years ago) > which have seemingly become aggressive in recent years. Makes one > wonder if maybe they're crossing them with Piranas lately in the Far > East <g>. > > Couldn't help to take notice though -- just as the YouTube site was > not the most informative, the site listed here is not one of the best > to go to for information, but then it IS difficult for the relative > beginner to know what information is best to rely on. At least a > number of the "varieties" of Dwarf and Honey/Sunset Gourami's are not > bred to achieve these colorations; some of these are dyed varieties > which should be avoided by the more concerned hobbyist due to the > inhumane methods used to color them. > > I point this out partially as while its commendable for a newer > hobbyist to perservere in the hobby (apparently with at least some > success, which is always good to recognize), 3 years is not really a > long time to be maintaining aquariums. The actual amount of time > spent maintaining tanks though, does not directly reflect the > experience gained which may be considerably more depending in part by > the interest put into it. Still, there is nothing like reading a > good factual source book on the hobby to gain needed info, rather > than rely on so many distorted sources of info on the 'Net, some of > which cannot be distinguished as such by the beginner. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > wrote: > > > > Okay. So assuming I have an 8 gallon (In good condition) And a > goldfish > > and even angels are out of the question, what about dwarf gouramis? > > I found this site; http://www.bayfish.com.au/category16_1.htm > > > > Or perhaps some Australian rainbow fish? > > > > I'm trying to work out what I can put in an 8 gal here. > > You guys have been an enormous help so far, so thanks : ) > > Keep it up... > > > > Lisa > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27160	From: pglloyd52	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Use of a plenum in a marine tank

Hi all, I am thinking of setting up a 100 gallon marine reef tank and would like some feedback on the idea of using a shallow (2"-3") aragonite base in the show tank together with about 50 lbs of 'live rock'; a mechanical 'sock' filter in the sump together with a large capacity protein skimmer; plus a 40 gallon refugium with 4" coarse gravel over a 2" plenum. The idea being that most of the nitrification/de-nitrification will take place in the refugium aerobic/anerobic areas respectively and that will reduce the need for more volume of live rock. Otherwise I have read that it is necessary to have about 1 kg of live rock per gallon, which at $7/lb makes this a very expensive filtration system. Would appreciate some feedback on this idea. peter

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27161	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei

Any searches done through Google that come up with a foreign language website usually has a link next to the main search link that will translate the website. I'm not sure if the other search engines provide this translation feature but they should. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei If you use Firefox a your browser, you can get an add-in to do the translations for you. Translations are not perfect, but the meaning should come across. It uses a number of translation engines, depending upon the language from and to. I do not know your familiarity with foreign languages, but you may be able to get a clue from the TLD of the URL, i.e. .uk is great Britain, and .de is Germany. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nannostomus BeckfordI/Nannostomus espei Well after trying further I found that the fish is actually a Nannostomus espei. I can't find much about their care that I can read; most of it is in languages other than English. Does anyone have any info on these fish? What they eat etc? One site talked about mosquitoe larvae so I'm wondering if I could do frozen daphnia. Any thoughts? Kate Kate <k8hardy@... <mailto:k8hardy%40yahoo.com> > wrote: Hey all, I was taken with a new fish at my lfs today. The gal there said it was a Nannostomus Beckfordi but probably a dwarf variation and might not get much bigger. It was about an inch long and bright gold with black almost vertical(slightly diagnal) bars. It didn't look like any of the N.B. I've seen before and I can't find any pictures online that resemble this fish. Is that just what the juveniles look like? Does this sound familiar to anyone? Can you tell me anything about them? There were two and they were never more than a couple inches apart. Very cool little fish! Thanks, Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.11/1368 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 4:20 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27162	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Waaaaaaay to high!

Right. I have two tanks. One is a 12 inch, which because of it’s relatively small size can not fit a filter or heater. However, that sits in my bedroom which most of the time is above 20 degrees so is fine. In that I have 1 male betta. He’s been in there over 12 months now with no problems. The second tank I have is slightly smaller, and holds 1 female betta, 3 leopard danios and a tiny catfish. Again the tank is too small for a filter or heater, but remains above 20 degrees. And this is the one I had the ammonia spike with. "We dance for laughter, we dance for tears, we dance for madness, we dance for fears, we dance for hopes, we dance for screams. We are the dancers, we create the dreams." "Why do I dance?.....Why do I breathe?" -Anonymous- --------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27163	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2008
Subject: Re: Waaaaaaay to high!

Hi Lisa, Whenever you reply to a reply, it's best to keep the original thread intact. I kind of remember my reply to you and I think this is your reply to my reply but none of the original message and reply is attached so it makes for difficult translation for someone seeing this the first time. When giving your tank size(s), it's best to give actual volume, preferably in US gallons for me but if you did it in liters, I'd be able to figure it out. LOL A 12" tank means nothing to me as far as tank size goes. Is it 12" long or 12" wide or 12" high? Or is it a 12" cube? To figure out tank volume on square or rectangular tanks, you can take the inches for LxWxH and then divide that total by 231 go get US Gallons. For example, a 12" cube tank would be 12x12x12=1,728 divided by 231 = 7.48 Gallons... probably sold as an 8G tank. As far as heaters go, yes it's hard to find heaters for small tanks but they do make them. As long as the room temp stays in the tropical temp range, you'll be OK but you should absolutely have running filters on the tanks. They make filters for as small as 1G sized tanks. Here is an Australian aquarium supply website with a Hagen Stingray internal filter for tanks up to 5G. http://www.aquariumsuppliesaustralia.com.au/store/cart.php?m=product_detail& p=483 They also have them for larger tanks. Having filters running will allow you to "cycle" the filter so you have a good nitrifying bacteria colony growing in the filter media to convert the ammonia and nitrites to nitrates. Nitrates are not very dangerous and are kept under 40ppm using regular PWC's. If/when you get filters for your tanks, read the "Filter Maintenance & Cleaning" article on my blog so you won't fall for the BAD instructions that come with most filters... namely DO NOT throw the filter cartridge away every few weeks like they recommend. That's the worst thing for new tanks and new fish keepers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Waaaaaaay to high! Right. I have two tanks. One is a 12 inch, which because of it’s relatively small size can not fit a filter or heater. However, that sits in my bedroom which most of the time is above 20 degrees so is fine. In that I have 1 male betta. He’s been in there over 12 months now with no problems. The second tank I have is slightly smaller, and holds 1 female betta, 3 leopard danios and a tiny catfish. Again the tank is too small for a filter or heater, but remains above 20 degrees. And this is the one I had the ammonia spike with. "We dance for laughter, we dance for tears, we dance for madness, we dance for fears, we dance for hopes, we dance for screams. We are the dancers, we create the dreams." "Why do I dance?.....Why do I breathe?" -Anonymous- --------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12 - Release Date: 4/10/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27164	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/11/2008
Subject: Re: Assesment of a roughly 10 year old tank...

Hi Hank, Just touching base with you again. Yes, I kind of figured for the most part that Gouramis are peaceful, but maybe any aggressiveness has been magnified more so recently with excessive inbreeding. I can start to understand them establishing territories in a tank where this can be done (with plants and rocks as defining this), as Steve points out, but then all my community tanks were always well planted -- and no aggression was ever seen. I've never owned a Kissing Gourami as they never held any interest for me. As I understand it, their well-known kissing behavior is not an act of affection, but instead an act of aggression to their own kind, even if in a mild enough way so as to have us fooled when we see this. I have seen and heard tales of them using this behavior on the sides of other fish. Blue Gouramis are well known for their aggressiveness, although I'm not sure if they're all like that. Tghey certainly have earned a bad reputation for this though as one of the worst. I almost forgot about the Buenos Aires Tetras. When I first started, I wanted to get some because of their attractiveness, but soon put that idea to rest after reading what Innes had to say about them. As for the Serpaes, and I believe there are at least 6 different species in this closely related Callistus group, I've been reading accounts of them being fin-nippers lately, but find it hard to believe. Next, they'll accuse Neons of this! Maybe some people are feeding these fish ground up Pirana meat! So THAT'S the story about Blind Cave Tets!!! I learned real early that they were fin nippers, and that being one of the reasons, I never had them. But I didn't know until you just mentioned it that this behavior was not necessarily aggressiveness, but a natural reaction to them grabbing any possible food their mouth may come in contact with. That figures now, with them not being able to see but only to feel a possible meal. Its unfortunate for the other fish though! Take care, catch you next time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@...> wrote: > > Ray: > AS a rule gouramis are docile and shy.The meanest gourami I ever > had was a med.kisser(5-6in)it was a terror.I also had some bad blues > and it usually turns out to be the males that fall into this > group.With tetras buenos aires are one of the worst,tiger barbs a > close second.The only trouble with blind caves is that anything their > mouth touches it bites thusly a lot of nipped fins.When getting most > fish its always better to get at least 3 of a kind as it helps > spread out any aggression.I have not heard anything about > serpaes,whats wrong with them? In closing I agree with everything you > posted. > > Hank > > but I've had Black Tets with Head & Tail Lights, Tet Von Rio (Flame > > Tetras), Lemon Tetras, Glow Light Tetras, Neons, Serpaes and other > > guys like Rasboras (heteromopha), Rosey Barbs and Cherry Barbs to > > name a few and I can say I've never ever had a problem with them in > > my tanks. By the way, I seem to recall reading lately that > Serpae's > > are bad news (hope I'm wrong on what I thought I read), but if this > > seems to be the case lately, again I've never had a problem with > this > > fish 50 years ago. > > > > Now if you're looking at real bad actors, you don't have to go much > > further than the Blind Cave Tetra -- a real nasty sort. Don't see > > them around much anymore though. Most people have learned about > the > > Tiger Barb, but there are still some beginners who get sucked in by > > its nice appearance. Too bad, but its reputation precedes it. > Good > > talking with you, and thanks again for adding to this. Shows that > > fish can behave in various ways. Ray > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, > > > > thanks. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > > > ((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old > > > > subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > > > > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > > > Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27165	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/11/2008
Subject: Re: Isn't This A Fish Group Where You Can Get Help?

Hi Joe, Saw your post yesterday and was not intending to reply only since what you did cover, you covered it well. This does not completely cover Amy's concerns though, which I would hope could be rectified. I do appreciate your support, as I'm sure the others you've mentioned do also. Even though I can't of course speak for all who submit answers here, I'm fairly sure I can feel free to speak for those members you've mentioned, as well as myself. To make it short and to the point, we are not here for our health (LOL)! Our sincere purpose is to help others to enjoy the same successes in this hobby as we have, and our enjoyment (reward) is in knowing at least some of that success has been achieved. While it may be possible that some of the answers from some of the responants mentioned may be seen as more than abrupt by some, and may have been inadvertantly worded to appear that way by a few not understanding the full meaning behind the reply, I'd be inclined not to believe anything was meant sarcastically either, just as your reply is not meant to be. As for some of my own replies, they sometimes may be a bit too lengthy (or include too much info), but if that's ever the case its only in an effort not to leave out any details which I feel is important to the issue, even if it seems relatively minor. I feel its important for the questioner to include everything relative to an issue to further success. They then have all the facts on hand to thoroughly deal with an issue, although I don't know if you're referring to me as giving an "overdose." Not knowing who else Amy feels as being helpful and who she feels as treating the members adversely, I really can't comment on this further, except to try to address the example that was given. While I did not offer an answer regarding 4 Angels in a 10 gallon tank, I can see the concerns for a beginner wanting to know if this is possible. But then again, not that being abrupt with an answer is any excuse, it is felt by most of us here that anyone wanting to enjoy keeping tropical fish would at least have the interest to first read a basic book on the hobby if they want to learn as much as they can about it. We are still here to answer any questions to problems that may come up, and are motre than glad to do so, but even the most basic books often have Angelfish in them (since they're one of the most popular fish), which should tell they get to about 6", so by that it should easily be seen that four of them won't live for very long in a 10 gallon tank. I'm not saying this is too much for us to assume someone should do, but its like they may not be seen as interested enough in doing their "homework." Still, I'd like to stress that we're only here to help. If real help can't be forthcoming, then there's no reason for anyone to reply in a snide manner if they can't do so civilly, but would only like to add that sometimes its the way the answer in perceived. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > Hello, Amy: > > I just read your post, and I really don't understand the point you > are trying to make. And, believe me, I am being sincere and do not > mean it sarcastically. Every time I read these postings I find answer > after answer to the questions that are being asked. I have been > keeping fresh water tropical fish for many, many years and I seldom > disagree with the advise given by especially Lenny, Steve Szabo or Ray > Wetzel. Sometimes I think they only fault of these gentlemen is that > in an effort to help, they may give an 'overdose' of help. When a > beginner sees all of this information it may be overwhelming because > they may not know what the adviser is talking about. That is > understandable, also, especially if they completely new to the art. > > There is also some humor that is tried, especially by Lenny, to try > and liven up what may otherwise turn out to be a boring subject. > Let's not fail to realize that we are writing. We are not actually > speaking to each other. So many things are interpreted by the > reader's situation. Therefore, things may be taken up as an insult or > some other put down and are really not meant to be. If you read the > replies with an open mind, some are really funny, some are foolish and > you may not find humor in them. But they are never maliciously > directed at the one asking the question. > > joe t > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Winbabyswife" <amy_howell@> wrote: > > > > I have been just reading posts and trying to stay out of conversations > > lately, because there are some people in here that treat you like "if > > you don't know then you shouldn't own fish" > > > > I just checked the home page and this is still on it. > > > > Welcome to the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > This is the place to share experience, ask and answer questions, post > > photos of Fish ~ Plants ~ Aquariums and any Aquatic Life. > > > > Here we have a wide range of Fish Enthusiasts from Beginners to > > Professionals ~ > > Fish Lovers, Hobbyist, Breeders, Aquarists, Collectors, Naturalists, > > Advanced, Intermediate, Novice, Experts, > > Suppliers, Importers, Ichthyologists, Marine Biologists, Students, > > Scientists, LFS Owners and Employees. > > > > I really fear asking for help from this group, because it does not seem > > anyone wants to help me. There is a select few who actually do help, > > Lenny to name one. But there are others who reply to you acting like > > you should know that you can not put 4 angels in a 10 gallon tank. > > Where was the support and understanding that this person may really not > > know, which is why they joined this group. > > > > Anyways just my thoughts. I hope you guys who I am talking about kinda > > get a grip on your answers and the fact this is a group of very > > beginners to experts in fish care. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27166	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/11/2008
Subject: Re: Finally found some guppies so I have a question.

Hi Amy, Thanks for clarifying; I just didn't connect the reference at first -- my bad, I guess I should have, but was sincere about my not catching your drift right away. You're right, in that some aquarium literature states that Bettas only need a square inch or so of surface area. That's similar to what I said about literature I read that allows for Bettas only needing about 1/2 the surface area that other similar size fish would need. While this may be true as far as their requirement to "survive" its no way to have them live any kind of life. No need to use "simpler words" next time, BTW, and I trust you're not meaning to be sarcastic when you say that. There all all too many who think they can confine Bettas to the smallest spaces only because they can survive, without giving thought to any kind of quality of live. Just as any other fish that might be kept, there's no reason not to supply a Betta with an adequate sized living area. We may be able to survive in a closet too, but I'm sure we wouldn't enjoy it very much! The 3 gallon bio-cube you're keeping your Betta in is not too bad at all. He might be "happier" in a 10 gallon tank, but who's to say. Fish do seem less stressed though, when in a smaller container (not that I'm saying 3 gallons is small for him), when there is some "environment" for the fish to experience, such as plants and rocks, rather than a bare tank. This can add to his overall "lifestyle." Thanks for adding to this thread. Glad I was able to help with the Platies. As for the different color variations in Guppies, it does not come from cross breeding with other species but is instead just a result of hard work selective breeding Guppies and selecting the best, then line breeding them to hold and enhance those traits while still keeping the vigor. Line breeding, in case you might be wondering, is having several related pairs (with all similar traits) usually all brothers and sisters but not necessarily, and each pair is allowed to breed separately (kept apart in separate tanks) from each other pair. The succeeding generations of each "line" of fish is allowed to breed through only a pre-determined number of generations, generally no more than four (or five at most). Then, they are crossed with the same generation of offspring from one of the other pairs so as not to inbreed too much (which would weaken the strain). I know I may have gone into too much detail here, but wanted to address your comment in case you wanted to know. Didn't realize it would go this long, but this is really a brief version of what's involved. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Winbabyswife" <amy_howell@...> wrote: > > I was replying to your post: > > Hello Lisa, To start with, I don't know where you came up with > the > > > idea that you can have one (1) fish per square inch of tank. Any > > > aquarium literature you might have read to this effect is totally > > > erroneous, unless these fish were 1/4" fry and the tank > > You said that you don't know where she got teh idea that you can keep > fish one per 1 square inch. In her defense I said she has bettas and > probably read that in a betta book. How is it that you do not > understand what i said. > > I'm sorry i will use simpler words next time. > > and thank you for the answer about the platies. theer is soo much > speculations about where teh colors come from in guppies, such as > crossbreeding. > > tahoe_mommy > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Yes, its understood that Lisa presently has a Betta. I don't think > > that I quite understand your point though; some books say WHAT for > > Bettas? I fail to see what you're trying to say. A lone Betta in > a > > 2 1/2 gallon tank is fine (having a 72 sq. inch surface area). > Along > > these same lines, Dr. Innes went on to state: "Labyrinth fishes > > (Bettas, Paradise, Gouramies) need about half the amount of air > > surface calculated for other fishes of the same size." To clarify, > > the rational behind this, as most of us know, is that Anabantoid > > fishes containing the auxilliary labyrinth breathing apparatus as > > part of their anatomy can make direct use of atmospheric oxygen. I > > had to catch myself there, as now with Badis and Dario species also > > included in this same Family, a blanket statement of Anabantids > > breathing air can no longer be used, although I'm sure the point is > > well taken with Bettas. > > > > I'll agree that Bettas should not be stuffed into flower vases just > > for the purpose of decoration. Most often, the recipient of such a > > gift (and they are often given as gifts) do not know the first > thing > > about fish care. Coupled with that, I don't believe there is any > > provision to feed the Betta in this situation, as there's little > > access to the water's surface. This does not even begin to address > > any filtration (or PWC) issues, which are completely absent with > > these set-ups and are direly needed more so in some case over > others > > depending on the individual success (or failure) of the subject > plant > > involved. Fortunately, the species will at least tolerate > > temperatures from 68 o to 90 o (and possibly a bit wider range), > even > > though it may not be in their best comfort at times, since "room > > temperature" can have a wide meaning. > > > > While it would seem that Platies would (could?) breed with Guppies, > > since they are both Livebearers, I have never heard of such a cross > > and there may well be some reason why they won't (can't?) > > interbreed. It has been already established though that guppies > will > > breed with mollies. No need for speculation when it comes to > Platies > > and Swordtails, as we know this is how various color strains of > them > > both were first established. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Winbabyswife" <amy_howell@> > > wrote: > > > > > > She has a Betta. Some books say that for Bettas, which is why > > Bettas > > > are treated soo cruelly. I ran into that when I first started > > keeping > > > Bettas. It refers to Bettas as being for decoration only and > > states > > > that they can live in flower vases. Horrible care sheets for > > Bettas > > > are out there. > > > > > > I do have a male Betta in a 3 gallon biocube, and have the > > filtration > > > set to low. He loves it and is doing very well in that small > > space, > > > but he has filtration, and a heater. I used to keep females, who > > lived > > > for over 2 years. I had 5 females in a 10 gallon and then moved > > them > > > into a community tank (30 gallon) with barbs, and a clown loach, > > and > > > raspboros (sp?). > > > > > > Lisa for you questions on guppies. They require a heater, > > filtration, > > > and I would not put them in anything less than a 10 gallon. I > love > > the > > > fancy tail guppies. I am probably wrong in telling you this, but > > if > > > you stick to the guppies, you can put 10 of them in a 10 gallon > > without > > > any troubles. Make sure you get males only.....otherwise you > will > > have > > > 50 in no time. Same with Platy's, one sex or the other. Also I > am > > not > > > sure but I have heard that he Platy will breed with the Guppy. > If > > > someone else knows this they can let the rest of us know? > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello Lisa, To start with, I don't know where you came up with > > the > > > > idea that you can have one (1) fish per square inch of tank. > Any > > > > aquarium literature you might have read to this effect is > totally > > > > erroneous, unless these fish were 1/4" fry and the tank > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27167	From: jett07002	Date: 4/11/2008
Subject: Re: Isn't This A Fish Group Where You Can Get Help?

Hi Ray. I wasn't even aware that you had answered about an angel fish question. I must have missed it. So, no, I was not referring to you as the "overdoser" LOL. I was speaking in general. I even have to check myself when trying to help a beginner. But in face to face I have the advantage of the person looking at me completely perplexed and asking, "What the hell are you talking about?" That is the point I was trying to make in my post; we are WRITING not SPEAKING to each other where we would have the advantages of body language, voice inflections and the immediate reply. Even the "Here, let me show you" is missing. As you know, I don't post often, but I read the posts frequently and take note of how fast they are answered by Lenny, Steve and you. By the way, I don't mean to leave anyone out. These three gentlemen are the ones I am most familiar with. When I asked a question (last week, I think it was) I could not believe I was getting an answer the next day! I remember when I was first starting out in the hobby, you couldn't get information like this. All the breeders and tenured aquarium keepers kept everything secret! The people you are helping out with this site don't realize what a gift it is to have this education at hand like this. So someone thinking that you are trying to put them down really disturbed me. joe t -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Joe, Saw your post yesterday and was not intending to reply only > since what you did cover, you covered it well. This does not > completely cover Amy's concerns though, which I would hope could be > rectified. I do appreciate your support, as I'm sure the others > you've mentioned do also. Even though I can't of course speak for > all who submit answers here, I'm fairly sure I can feel free to speak > for those members you've mentioned, as well as myself. To make it > short and to the point, we are not here for our health (LOL)! Our > sincere purpose is to help others to enjoy the same successes in this > hobby as we have, and our enjoyment (reward) is in knowing at least > some of that success has been achieved. > > While it may be possible that some of the answers from some of the > responants mentioned may be seen as more than abrupt by some, and may > have been inadvertantly worded to appear that way by a few not > understanding the full meaning behind the reply, I'd be inclined not > to believe anything was meant sarcastically either, just as your > reply is not meant to be. As for some of my own replies, they > sometimes may be a bit too lengthy (or include too much info), but if > that's ever the case its only in an effort not to leave out any > details which I feel is important to the issue, even if it seems > relatively minor. I feel its important for the questioner to include > everything relative to an issue to further success. They then have > all the facts on hand to thoroughly deal with an issue, although I > don't know if you're referring to me as giving an "overdose." > > Not knowing who else Amy feels as being helpful and who she feels as > treating the members adversely, I really can't comment on this > further, except to try to address the example that was given. While > I did not offer an answer regarding 4 Angels in a 10 gallon tank, I > can see the concerns for a beginner wanting to know if this is > possible. But then again, not that being abrupt with an answer is > any excuse, it is felt by most of us here that anyone wanting to > enjoy keeping tropical fish would at least have the interest to first > read a basic book on the hobby if they want to learn as much as they > can about it. We are still here to answer any questions to problems > that may come up, and are motre than glad to do so, but even the most > basic books often have Angelfish in them (since they're one of the > most popular fish), which should tell they get to about 6", so by > that it should easily be seen that four of them won't live for very > long in a 10 gallon tank. I'm not saying this is too much for us to > assume someone should do, but its like they may not be seen as > interested enough in doing their "homework." Still, I'd like to > stress that we're only here to help. If real help can't be > forthcoming, then there's no reason for anyone to reply in a snide > manner if they can't do so civilly, but would only like to add that > sometimes its the way the answer in perceived. Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello, Amy: > > > > I just read your post, and I really don't understand the point you > > are trying to make. And, believe me, I am being sincere and do not > > mean it sarcastically. Every time I read these postings I find > answer > > after answer to the questions that are being asked. I have been > > keeping fresh water tropical fish for many, many years and I seldom > > disagree with the advise given by especially Lenny, Steve Szabo or > Ray > > Wetzel. Sometimes I think they only fault of these gentlemen is > that > > in an effort to help, they may give an 'overdose' of help. When a > > beginner sees all of this information it may be overwhelming because > > they may not know what the adviser is talking about. That is > > understandable, also, especially if they completely new to the art. > > > > There is also some humor that is tried, especially by Lenny, to try > > and liven up what may otherwise turn out to be a boring subject. > > Let's not fail to realize that we are writing. We are not actually > > speaking to each other. So many things are interpreted by the > > reader's situation. Therefore, things may be taken up as an insult > or > > some other put down and are really not meant to be. If you read the > > replies with an open mind, some are really funny, some are foolish > and > > you may not find humor in them. But they are never maliciously > > directed at the one asking the question. > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Winbabyswife" <amy_howell@> > wrote: > > > > > > I have been just reading posts and trying to stay out of > conversations > > > lately, because there are some people in here that treat you > like "if > > > you don't know then you shouldn't own fish" > > > > > > I just checked the home page and this is still on it. > > > > > > Welcome to the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > > This is the place to share experience, ask and answer questions, > post > > > photos of Fish ~ Plants ~ Aquariums and any Aquatic Life. > > > > > > Here we have a wide range of Fish Enthusiasts from Beginners to > > > Professionals ~ > > > Fish Lovers, Hobbyist, Breeders, Aquarists, Collectors, > Naturalists, > > > Advanced, Intermediate, Novice, Experts, > > > Suppliers, Importers, Ichthyologists, Marine Biologists, > Students, > > > Scientists, LFS Owners and Employees. > > > > > > I really fear asking for help from this group, because it does > not seem > > > anyone wants to help me. There is a select few who actually do > help, > > > Lenny to name one. But there are others who reply to you acting > like > > > you should know that you can not put 4 angels in a 10 gallon > tank. > > > Where was the support and understanding that this person may > really not > > > know, which is why they joined this group. > > > > > > Anyways just my thoughts. I hope you guys who I am talking about > kinda > > > get a grip on your answers and the fact this is a group of very > > > beginners to experts in fish care. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27168	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/11/2008
Subject: FW: PVAS April Meeting - Monday, 14 April 2008

If you are in the Washington, DC area, and you have an interest in the history of the hobby, this is a talk you will not want to miss on Monday night. The web site is mentioned, but not listed, so here it is: http://www.pvas.com \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 9:37 AM To: Subject: PVAS April Meeting - Monday, 14 April 2008 Colleagues, The April Potomac Valley Aquarium Society Meeting features Alan Fletcher talking about "The Golden Decade of the Aquarium Hobby" (1950s). Please check out the website for further details. Alan does not use power point so this is clearly a departure from our regular meeting format. I received several emails from new and returning members that are really looking forward to this meeting. And, some who will be attending their first ever PVAS meeting, so please welcome them and bring their attendance to my attention so we can give them a big PVAS welcome. The hospitality committee will once again do their magic. The meeting opens with a short PVAS business meeting at 7:45 p.m. with a financial updates, a report out of the 6 April board meeting and other matters that keep our club running. We will conclude the meeting with a door prize drawing and the monthly raffle and auction. I personally appreciate the help if you can come early (between 6:30 and 7) to help with room setup. Thank you!! Remember that we are only ten (or nine depending on how you count) days from the "Famous" PVAS All-Day Auction on the 20th. Get your stuff ready, post on the forum what you are bringing or hope for others to bring and plan on coming early and staying late to help with setup and breakdown since it goes easiest for all with many hands. The spring and fall auctions are really great events that showcase PVAS and what we can accomplish. Michael PVAS President

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27169	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/11/2008
Subject: Re: Isn't This A Fish Group Where You Can Get Help?

Joe, Perhaps I stated it wrong or maybe you misinterpreted something, but I did not answer any Angelfish question lately. I had replied to your posting your support for Steve, Lenny and myself. I realize you were not singling me out as an overdoser. As far as how someone says something on the 'Net via email vs. how they appear in person is well established by most who know that its often misleading trying to determine someone's demeanor from reading what they have written, when any "attitude" with it may only be interpreted as such by how its perceived by the reader. Yet, all too often, this can trip some people up and cause unnecessary misunderstandings. This is what can be particularly bad with the internet when its allowed to be. I would add there are a number of other very helpful members here who give of their knowledge in this field very selflessly and are a credit to the Group. I'll not name anyone since most know who these people are, having been helped by them, not to mention I would not want to leave anyone out. As for myself, I don't always reply to a question the same day, simply because my schedule may cause me to miss seeing it the same day. Have a good weekend! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray. > > I wasn't even aware that you had answered about an angel fish > question. I must have missed it. So, no, I was not referring to you > as the "overdoser" LOL. I was speaking in general. I even have to > check myself when trying to help a beginner. But in face to face I > have the advantage of the person looking at me completely perplexed > and asking, "What the hell are you talking about?" > > That is the point I was trying to make in my post; we are WRITING not > SPEAKING to each > other where we would have the advantages of body language, voice > inflections and the immediate reply. Even the "Here, let me show you" > is missing. > > As you know, I don't post often, but I read the posts frequently and > take note of how fast they are answered by Lenny, Steve and you. By > the way, I don't mean to leave anyone out. These three gentlemen are > the ones I am most familiar with. When I asked a question (last week, > I think it was) I could not believe I was getting an answer the next > day! I remember when I was first starting out in the hobby, you > couldn't get information like this. All the breeders and tenured > aquarium keepers kept everything secret! The people you are helping > out with this site don't realize what a gift it is to have this > education at hand like this. So someone thinking that you are trying > to put them down really disturbed me. > > joe t > > > > > > -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Joe, Saw your post yesterday and was not intending to reply only > > since what you did cover, you covered it well. This does not > > completely cover Amy's concerns though, which I would hope could be > > rectified. I do appreciate your support, as I'm sure the others > > you've mentioned do also. Even though I can't of course speak for > > all who submit answers here, I'm fairly sure I can feel free to speak > > for those members you've mentioned, as well as myself. To make it > > short and to the point, we are not here for our health (LOL)! Our > > sincere purpose is to help others to enjoy the same successes in this > > hobby as we have, and our enjoyment (reward) is in knowing at least > > some of that success has been achieved. > > > > While it may be possible that some of the answers from some of the > > responants mentioned may be seen as more than abrupt by some, and may > > have been inadvertantly worded to appear that way by a few not > > understanding the full meaning behind the reply, I'd be inclined not > > to believe anything was meant sarcastically either, just as your > > reply is not meant to be. As for some of my own replies, they > > sometimes may be a bit too lengthy (or include too much info), but if > > that's ever the case its only in an effort not to leave out any > > details which I feel is important to the issue, even if it seems > > relatively minor. I feel its important for the questioner to include > > everything relative to an issue to further success. They then have > > all the facts on hand to thoroughly deal with an issue, although I > > don't know if you're referring to me as giving an "overdose." > > > > Not knowing who else Amy feels as being helpful and who she feels as > > treating the members adversely, I really can't comment on this > > further, except to try to address the example that was given. While > > I did not offer an answer regarding 4 Angels in a 10 gallon tank, I > > can see the concerns for a beginner wanting to know if this is > > possible. But then again, not that being abrupt with an answer is > > any excuse, it is felt by most of us here that anyone wanting to > > enjoy keeping tropical fish would at least have the interest to first > > read a basic book on the hobby if they want to learn as much as they > > can about it. We are still here to answer any questions to problems > > that may come up, and are motre than glad to do so, but even the most > > basic books often have Angelfish in them (since they're one of the > > most popular fish), which should tell they get to about 6", so by > > that it should easily be seen that four of them won't live for very > > long in a 10 gallon tank. I'm not saying this is too much for us to > > assume someone should do, but its like they may not be seen as > > interested enough in doing their "homework." Still, I'd like to > > stress that we're only here to help. If real help can't be > > forthcoming, then there's no reason for anyone to reply in a snide > > manner if they can't do so civilly, but would only like to add that > > sometimes its the way the answer in perceived. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello, Amy: > > > > > > I just read your post, and I really don't understand the point you > > > are trying to make. And, believe me, I am being sincere and do not > > > mean it sarcastically. Every time I read these postings I find > > answer > > > after answer to the questions that are being asked. I have been > > > keeping fresh water tropical fish for many, many years and I seldom > > > disagree with the advise given by especially Lenny, Steve Szabo or > > Ray > > > Wetzel. Sometimes I think they only fault of these gentlemen is > > that > > > in an effort to help, they may give an 'overdose' of help. When a > > > beginner sees all of this information it may be overwhelming because > > > they may not know what the adviser is talking about. That is > > > understandable, also, especially if they completely new to the art. > > > > > > There is also some humor that is tried, especially by Lenny, to try > > > and liven up what may otherwise turn out to be a boring subject. > > > Let's not fail to realize that we are writing. We are not actually > > > speaking to each other. So many things are interpreted by the > > > reader's situation. Therefore, things may be taken up as an insult > > or > > > some other put down and are really not meant to be. If you read the > > > replies with an open mind, some are really funny, some are foolish > > and > > > you may not find humor in them. But they are never maliciously > > > directed at the one asking the question. > > > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Winbabyswife" <amy_howell@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have been just reading posts and trying to stay out of > > conversations > > > > lately, because there are some people in here that treat you > > like "if > > > > you don't know then you shouldn't own fish" > > > > > > > > I just checked the home page and this is still on it. > > > > > > > > Welcome to the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > > > This is the place to share experience, ask and answer questions, > > post > > > > photos of Fish ~ Plants ~ Aquariums and any Aquatic Life. > > > > > > > > Here we have a wide range of Fish Enthusiasts from Beginners to > > > > Professionals ~ > > > > Fish Lovers, Hobbyist, Breeders, Aquarists, Collectors, > > Naturalists, > > > > Advanced, Intermediate, Novice, Experts, > > > > Suppliers, Importers, Ichthyologists, Marine Biologists, > > Students, > > > > Scientists, LFS Owners and Employees. > > > > > > > > I really fear asking for help from this group, because it does > > not seem > > > > anyone wants to help me. There is a select few who actually do > > help, > > > > Lenny to name one. But there are others who reply to you acting > > like > > > > you should know that you can not put 4 angels in a 10 gallon > > tank. > > > > Where was the support and understanding that this person may > > really not > > > > know, which is why they joined this group. > > > > > > > > Anyways just my thoughts. I hope you guys who I am talking about > > kinda > > > > get a grip on your answers and the fact this is a group of very > > > > beginners to experts in fish care. > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27170	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 4/12/2008
Subject: Re: Solving the catfish riddle

Mine is maybe an inch and a half. But since he/she is hidden amongst the plants 90% of the time, it's hard to get an accurate measurement. It has similar finnage as the gold, but instead of being 'gold' in colour, it's kinda beige with speckles of darker skin over all the body except for the fins which are mostly transparent. "We dance for laughter, we dance for tears, we dance for madness, we dance for fears, we dance for hopes, we dance for screams. We are the dancers, we create the dreams." "Why do I dance?.....Why do I breathe?" -Anonymous- --------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27171	From: reading1113	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question

I have a 10 gal with 2 bloodfins, 1 platie, and 2 neons in it. Now the original plan was not to have the neons in the first place, and get more blood fins, but I rescued those neons, and now I am keeping them. I know the blood fins and neons do better in groups, so my question is this. IF I get a total of 5 neons, 4 blood fins, and the platie, will I be overcrowding my aquarium? Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question

I think you would be overstocked by over 50%+ but if you used live plants and did weekly or twice weekly 25% PWC's, it might work but read over the rest of my reply for a better scenario. The Bloodfin Tetra's grow to a little over 2" and a 10G is the minimum sized tank for them. Just a school of five of them would fully stock a 10G tank. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html Neon Tetra's only grow to 1.5" http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html so even a school of them would fully stock a 10G under normal circumstances. Have you noticed the tetras schooling together? Often times, fish from the same family will school together so if you see this behavior, you could just have three of each and let them school together as a group of six. Oftentimes, when schooling fish feel comfortable in a tank, they'll stray and not school as often unless they feel threatened. Not that this is something you should do on a regular basis but try startling them by tapping on the glass to see if they come together as a school. That is one of the primary reasons for keeping schooling fish in schools so they feel less stressed when threatened. This scenario would be better than trying to cram two schools of fish into a 10G, along with the platy http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm which would fully stock your tank. Regardless of what you decide, you should definitely get some easy to grow live plants http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 and http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 which helps keep a 10G tank more stable as far as the overall ecology. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of reading1113 Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question I have a 10 gal with 2 bloodfins, 1 platie, and 2 neons in it. Now the original plan was not to have the neons in the first place, and get more blood fins, but I rescued those neons, and now I am keeping them. I know the blood fins and neons do better in groups, so my question is this. IF I get a total of 5 neons, 4 blood fins, and the platie, will I be overcrowding my aquarium? Thanks! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date: 4/12/2008 11:32 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27173	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: What exactly is in "algae meal"?

> I may be doing it wrong, but all my algea eatting fish are fed Sally's > Seaweed Salad Aha!! That's exactly what I'm looking for - commercial food without the additives. I was considering buying human grade 100% spirulina and chlorella supplements and using those, but the Sally's Seaweed looks like a good option! My only question is could their entire diet be composed of seaweed or do they still need the algae periodically? Thanks so much!! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27174	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Marimo Balls and Algae Eaters

Does anyone here have both? Do the algae eaters eat the marimo balls? Thanks!! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: What exactly is in "algae meal"?

Lana, It depends on the fish as to it's dietary needs. Most pleco's, algae eaters and most fish in general are actually omnivores so they need a varied diet including protein's. You need to find out if your fish is an herbivore, omnivore or carnivore... that will direct you more on their dietary needs. The Hikari Algae Wafers has around 38% protein which helps sustain the needs of omnivores. If you look up the profiles on http://fish.mongabay.com and some other reputable sites, they'll usually have the recommended foods to feed the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 2:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What exactly is in "algae meal"? > I may be doing it wrong, but all my algea eatting fish are fed Sally's > Seaweed Salad Aha!! That's exactly what I'm looking for - commercial food without the additives. I was considering buying human grade 100% spirulina and chlorella supplements and using those, but the Sally's Seaweed looks like a good option! My only question is could their entire diet be composed of seaweed or do they still need the algae periodically? Thanks so much!! -Lana No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date: 4/12/2008 11:32 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27176	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: Marimo Balls and Algae Eaters

Lana, What kind of "algae eater" do you have? There are literally thousands of fish and critters that eat algae so it would be more helpful if you state the actual species that you have. I did a quick Google and found some reputable sites that say that algae eating fish and shrimp DO NOT eat the Marimo Moss Balls but remember that our fish do not always read the same things we read. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/cladophora.html http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/9120-marim o-algae-balls-cladophora-aegagrophila-cherry.html http://www.aquariumplants.com/product_p/moss1.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 2:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Marimo Balls and Algae Eaters Does anyone here have both? Do the algae eaters eat the marimo balls? Thanks!! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date: 4/12/2008 11:32 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27177	From: reading1113	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question

Thanks for the answer. The neons hang together, and the bloodfins hang together. Now the two neons have a tendency to stray apart from one another often, but those blood fins are always side by side. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think you would be overstocked by over 50%+ but if you used live plants > and did weekly or twice weekly 25% PWC's, it might work but read over the > rest of my reply for a better scenario. > > The Bloodfin Tetra's grow to a little over 2" and a 10G is the minimum sized > tank for them. Just a school of five of them would fully stock a 10G tank. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html > > Neon Tetra's only grow to 1.5" > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html so even a school > of them would fully stock a 10G under normal circumstances. > > Have you noticed the tetras schooling together? Often times, fish from the > same family will school together so if you see this behavior, you could just > have three of each and let them school together as a group of six. > Oftentimes, when schooling fish feel comfortable in a tank, they'll stray > and not school as often unless they feel threatened. Not that this is > something you should do on a regular basis but try startling them by tapping > on the glass to see if they come together as a school. That is one of the > primary reasons for keeping schooling fish in schools so they feel less > stressed when threatened. This scenario would be better than trying to cram > two schools of fish into a 10G, along with the platy > http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm which would fully stock your tank. > > Regardless of what you decide, you should definitely get some easy to grow > live plants > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 and > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 which > helps keep a 10G tank more stable as far as the overall ecology. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of reading1113 > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question > > I have a 10 gal with 2 bloodfins, 1 platie, and 2 neons in it. Now the > original plan was not to have the neons in the first place, and get more > blood fins, but I rescued those neons, and now I am keeping them. > > I know the blood fins and neons do better in groups, so my question is this. > IF I get a total of 5 neons, 4 blood fins, and the platie, will I be > overcrowding my aquarium? > > Thanks! > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date: 4/12/2008 > 11:32 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27178	From: Dave Shives	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: In wall fish tank...was wondering uf anynone had luck with mirror fi

Hi folks... I'm putting a 90 gallon 5 ft fish tank in the wall that seperates the bar from the bathroom... I was wondering if anyone has ever had much luck with window film for 2 way in wall aquariums...I would like to be able to see the fish looking out but I would like the folks in the bathroom to feel a bit of privacey... Any ideas? I looked at the 3M mirror solar film and it seemed as though the film may be a bit too dark... Dave

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27179	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question

Well, if they aren't schooling now, they may not do it. Trying to squeeze two schools and the lone platy into a 10G is not recommended but if you decide to try it, definitely go with lots of live plants and be prepared for twice weekly PWC's to give the fish a chance to be healthy. Why don't you just get another 10G tank... sometimes found for free on places like your local Freecycle.org group... and that would be better for your fish and for you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of reading1113 Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question Thanks for the answer. The neons hang together, and the bloodfins hang together. Now the two neons have a tendency to stray apart from one another often, but those blood fins are always side by side. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think you would be overstocked by over 50%+ but if you used live plants > and did weekly or twice weekly 25% PWC's, it might work but read over the > rest of my reply for a better scenario. > > The Bloodfin Tetra's grow to a little over 2" and a 10G is the minimum sized > tank for them. Just a school of five of them would fully stock a 10G tank. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html> > > Neon Tetra's only grow to 1.5" > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html> so even > a school > of them would fully stock a 10G under normal circumstances. > > Have you noticed the tetras schooling together? Often times, fish from the > same family will school together so if you see this behavior, you could just > have three of each and let them school together as a group of six. > Oftentimes, when schooling fish feel comfortable in a tank, they'll stray > and not school as often unless they feel threatened. Not that this is > something you should do on a regular basis but try startling them by tapping > on the glass to see if they come together as a school. That is one of the > primary reasons for keeping schooling fish in schools so they feel > less stressed when threatened. This scenario would be better than > trying to cram > two schools of fish into a 10G, along with the platy > http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> which would fully stock your tank. > > Regardless of what you decide, you should definitely get some easy to grow > live plants > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> > and > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> which > helps keep a 10G tank more stable as far as the overall ecology. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of reading1113 > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] I am a newbie here, and have a beginner > question > > I have a 10 gal with 2 bloodfins, 1 platie, and 2 neons in it. Now the > original plan was not to have the neons in the first place, and get > more blood fins, but I rescued those neons, and now I am keeping them. > > I know the blood fins and neons do better in groups, so my question is this. > IF I get a total of 5 neons, 4 blood fins, and the platie, will I be > overcrowding my aquarium? > > Thanks! > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date: 4/12/2008 11:32 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27180	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2008
Subject: Re: In wall fish tank...was wondering uf anynone had luck with mirro

The problem would be getting the film to stick since the adhesive is normally on the non-mirror side of the film. You would want to apply the mirrored side on the bathroom side of the tank but with the mirror facing through the tank towards the bar. If the tank lights are on, this would probably work since the entire mirror concept needs lighting to complete the process. Whichever side of the film has the most light will be the side that you will be able to see into. So if the fish tank lights are off and the bathroom lights are on, you would lose the privacy effect even with the mirrored film applied properly or reversely applied. Why not just hang a little curtain or mini-blinds on the bathroom side of the tank which can be closed when the bathroom is in use. Also, make sure that the tank is sealed to the bathroom side of the wall since many people use air fresheners after doing the dirty turdy...lol... and the air freshener is very bad for the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Shives Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] In wall fish tank...was wondering uf anynone had luck with mirror film Hi folks... I'm putting a 90 gallon 5 ft fish tank in the wall that seperates the bar from the bathroom... I was wondering if anyone has ever had much luck with window film for 2 way in wall aquariums...I would like to be able to see the fish looking out but I would like the folks in the bathroom to feel a bit of privacey... Any ideas? I looked at the 3M mirror solar film and it seemed as though the film may be a bit too dark... Dave No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date: 4/12/2008 11:32 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27181	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Re: Marimo Balls and Algae Eaters

Thanks Lenny, I want to get an oto or two, don't actually have them yet. Trying to make sure the tank has some forage for it before I get it because I read they need to snack constantly. Thanks for the links! I only found one site on my search but it was just someone's observations (they never saw their algae eater eating it) so I wasn't sure if it was right. -Lana On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Lana, > > What kind of "algae eater" do you have? There are literally thousands of > fish and critters that eat algae so it would be more helpful if you state > the actual species that you have. > > I did a quick Google and found some reputable sites that say that algae > eating fish and shrimp DO NOT eat the Marimo Moss Balls but remember that > our fish do not always read the same things we read. > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/cladophora.html > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/9120-marim > o-algae-balls-cladophora-aegagrophila-cherry.html<http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/9120-marimo-algae-balls-cladophora-aegagrophila-cherry.html> > > http://www.aquariumplants.com/product_p/moss1.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27182	From: reading1113	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question

Actually, I have a 20 gal that I will be setting up in a week or so, and my adult ACF's will be going in there. That will free up my 15 gal, so I wonder if in a 15 gal set up, will it still be overcrowded? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, if they aren't schooling now, they may not do it. > > Trying to squeeze two schools and the lone platy into a 10G is not > recommended but if you decide to try it, definitely go with lots of live > plants and be prepared for twice weekly PWC's to give the fish a chance to > be healthy. > > Why don't you just get another 10G tank... sometimes found for free on > places like your local Freecycle.org group... and that would be better for > your fish and for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of reading1113 > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question > > Thanks for the answer. The neons hang together, and the bloodfins hang > together. Now the two neons have a tendency to stray apart from one another > often, but those blood fins are always side by side. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I think you would be overstocked by over 50%+ but if you used live > plants > > and did weekly or twice weekly 25% PWC's, it might work but read > over the > > rest of my reply for a better scenario. > > > > The Bloodfin Tetra's grow to a little over 2" and a 10G is the > minimum sized > > tank for them. Just a school of five of them would fully stock a > 10G tank. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html> > > > > Neon Tetra's only grow to 1.5" > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html> so even > > a > school > > of them would fully stock a 10G under normal circumstances. > > > > Have you noticed the tetras schooling together? Often times, fish > from the > > same family will school together so if you see this behavior, you > could just > > have three of each and let them school together as a group of six. > > Oftentimes, when schooling fish feel comfortable in a tank, they'll > stray > > and not school as often unless they feel threatened. Not that this is > > something you should do on a regular basis but try startling them by > tapping > > on the glass to see if they come together as a school. That is one > of the > > primary reasons for keeping schooling fish in schools so they feel > > less stressed when threatened. This scenario would be better than > > trying > to cram > > two schools of fish into a 10G, along with the platy > > http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> which would fully stock > your tank. > > > > Regardless of what you decide, you should definitely get some easy > to grow > > live plants > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> > > and > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> > which > > helps keep a 10G tank more stable as far as the overall ecology. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of reading1113 > > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:19 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] I am a newbie here, and have a beginner > > question > > > > I have a 10 gal with 2 bloodfins, 1 platie, and 2 neons in it. Now the > > original plan was not to have the neons in the first place, and get > > more blood fins, but I rescued those neons, and now I am keeping them. > > > > I know the blood fins and neons do better in groups, so my question > is this. > > IF I get a total of 5 neons, 4 blood fins, and the platie, will I be > > overcrowding my aquarium? > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date: 4/12/2008 > 11:32 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27183	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question

Well, a 15G is 50% more water volume so that will be much better for you and the fish. With the two five fish schools and the platy, you'll still be slightly overstocked but it should work as long as you are diligent with doing tank and filter maintenance. Live plants will also help a lot with removing some of the waste and increasing the O2 levels. I've never owned a 15G... are they just taller versions of a 10G or longer? Hopefully longer so that would give you more surface area and swimming room. Remember when you make the move, that you move your filter system from the 10G to the 15G so you keep the majority of your nitrifying bacteria alive so you won't have to deal with cycling the new set up. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of reading1113 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question Actually, I have a 20 gal that I will be setting up in a week or so, and my adult ACF's will be going in there. That will free up my 15 gal, so I wonder if in a 15 gal set up, will it still be overcrowded? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, if they aren't schooling now, they may not do it. > > Trying to squeeze two schools and the lone platy into a 10G is not > recommended but if you decide to try it, definitely go with lots of > live plants and be prepared for twice weekly PWC's to give the fish a chance to > be healthy. > > Why don't you just get another 10G tank... sometimes found for free on > places like your local Freecycle.org group... and that would be better for > your fish and for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of reading1113 > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question > > Thanks for the answer. The neons hang together, and the bloodfins hang > together. Now the two neons have a tendency to stray apart from one another > often, but those blood fins are always side by side. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I think you would be overstocked by over 50%+ but if you used live > plants > > and did weekly or twice weekly 25% PWC's, it might work but read > over the > > rest of my reply for a better scenario. > > > > The Bloodfin Tetra's grow to a little over 2" and a 10G is the > minimum sized > > tank for them. Just a school of five of them would fully stock a > 10G tank. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html> > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html> > > > > > Neon Tetra's only grow to 1.5" > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html> > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html> > so > > even a > school > > of them would fully stock a 10G under normal circumstances. > > > > Have you noticed the tetras schooling together? Often times, fish > from the > > same family will school together so if you see this behavior, you > could just > > have three of each and let them school together as a group of six. > > Oftentimes, when schooling fish feel comfortable in a tank, they'll > stray > > and not school as often unless they feel threatened. Not that this > > is something you should do on a regular basis but try startling them > > by > tapping > > on the glass to see if they come together as a school. That is one > of the > > primary reasons for keeping schooling fish in schools so they feel > > less stressed when threatened. This scenario would be better than > > trying > to cram > > two schools of fish into a 10G, along with the platy > > http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> > which would fully stock > your tank. > > > > Regardless of what you decide, you should definitely get some easy > to grow > > live plants > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 > > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> > > > and > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > > > > which > > helps keep a 10G tank more stable as far as the overall ecology. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of reading1113 > > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:19 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] I am a newbie here, and have a beginner > > question > > > > I have a 10 gal with 2 bloodfins, 1 platie, and 2 neons in it. Now the > > original plan was not to have the neons in the first place, and get > > more blood fins, but I rescued those neons, and now I am keeping them. > > > > I know the blood fins and neons do better in groups, so my question > is this. > > IF I get a total of 5 neons, 4 blood fins, and the platie, will I be > > overcrowding my aquarium? > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date: 4/12/2008 > 11:32 AM > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1376 - Release Date: 4/13/2008 1:45 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1376 - Release Date: 4/13/2008 1:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27184	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question

Lenny, Yes and No. They make a 15 tall with a 10 gallon foot print. They also make a longer slightly wider 15 gallon tank. I have the longer wider ones in storage. Sorry I don't have the measurements handy. I have an 18 tall with a 10 gallon footprint with an eclipse hood on it. Great little tank. I used to have it on my desk at work in the hospital. Great for screaming children. Calm them right down when they saw the fish swimming. I've never owned a 15G... are they just taller versions of a 10G or longer? Hopefully longer so that would give you more surface area and swimming room. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 6:20 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question Well, a 15G is 50% more water volume so that will be much better for you and the fish. With the two five fish schools and the platy, you'll still be slightly overstocked but it should work as long as you are diligent with doing tank and filter maintenance. Live plants will also help a lot with removing some of the waste and increasing the O2 levels. I've never owned a 15G... are they just taller versions of a 10G or longer? Hopefully longer so that would give you more surface area and swimming room. Remember when you make the move, that you move your filter system from the 10G to the 15G so you keep the majority of your nitrifying bacteria alive so you won't have to deal with cycling the new set up. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of reading1113 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question Actually, I have a 20 gal that I will be setting up in a week or so, and my adult ACF's will be going in there. That will free up my 15 gal, so I wonder if in a 15 gal set up, will it still be overcrowded? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, if they aren't schooling now, they may not do it. > > Trying to squeeze two schools and the lone platy into a 10G is not > recommended but if you decide to try it, definitely go with lots of > live plants and be prepared for twice weekly PWC's to give the fish a chance to > be healthy. > > Why don't you just get another 10G tank... sometimes found for free on > places like your local Freecycle.org group... and that would be better for > your fish and for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of reading1113 > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question > > Thanks for the answer. The neons hang together, and the bloodfins hang > together. Now the two neons have a tendency to stray apart from one another > often, but those blood fins are always side by side. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I think you would be overstocked by over 50%+ but if you used live > plants > > and did weekly or twice weekly 25% PWC's, it might work but read > over the > > rest of my reply for a better scenario. > > > > The Bloodfin Tetra's grow to a little over 2" and a 10G is the > minimum sized > > tank for them. Just a school of five of them would fully stock a > 10G tank. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html> > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html> > > > > > Neon Tetra's only grow to 1.5" > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html> > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html> > so > > even a > school > > of them would fully stock a 10G under normal circumstances. > > > > Have you noticed the tetras schooling together? Often times, fish > from the > > same family will school together so if you see this behavior, you > could just > > have three of each and let them school together as a group of six. > > Oftentimes, when schooling fish feel comfortable in a tank, they'll > stray > > and not school as often unless they feel threatened. Not that this > > is something you should do on a regular basis but try startling them > > by > tapping > > on the glass to see if they come together as a school. That is one > of the > > primary reasons for keeping schooling fish in schools so they feel > > less stressed when threatened. This scenario would be better than > > trying > to cram > > two schools of fish into a 10G, along with the platy > > http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> > which would fully stock > your tank. > > > > Regardless of what you decide, you should definitely get some easy > to grow > > live plants > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 > > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> > > > and > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > > > > which > > helps keep a 10G tank more stable as far as the overall ecology. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of reading1113 > > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:19 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] I am a newbie here, and have a beginner > > question > > > > I have a 10 gal with 2 bloodfins, 1 platie, and 2 neons in it. Now the > > original plan was not to have the neons in the first place, and get > > more blood fins, but I rescued those neons, and now I am keeping them. > > > > I know the blood fins and neons do better in groups, so my question > is this. > > IF I get a total of 5 neons, 4 blood fins, and the platie, will I be > > overcrowding my aquarium? > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date: 4/12/2008 > 11:32 AM > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1376 - Release Date: 4/13/2008 1:45 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1376 - Release Date: 4/13/2008 1:45 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27185	From: Dave Shives	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: In wall fish tank...was wondering uf anynone had luck with mirror fi

Hi folks... I'm putting a 90 gallon 5 ft fish tank in the wall that seperates the bar from the bathroom... I was wondering if anyone has ever had much luck with window film for 2 way in wall aquariums...I would like to be able to see the fish looking out but I would like the folks in the bathroom to feel a bit of privacey... Any ideas? I looked at the 3M mirror solar film and it seemed as though the film may be a bit too dark... Dave

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27186	From: reading1113	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question

The 15 gallon is longer, and a little taller. When I make the move, I will do a fishless cycle to start up the 20 gal and once it is completed, ( hopefully it won't take too long, since I can use the media from my 10 gal with the fish, or the 15 gal with the frogs ) and just simply move the frogs into their 20, and the fish into the 15 ( which the frogs are in now ) and all will be grand! Then I will have the 10 gal to either take down, or to maybe use it to raise some feeder guppies! Thanks for the suggestions. As far as the plants, I am getting some mailed to me in the next couple of weeks. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, a 15G is 50% more water volume so that will be much better for you and > the fish. With the two five fish schools and the platy, you'll still be > slightly overstocked but it should work as long as you are diligent with > doing tank and filter maintenance. Live plants will also help a lot with > removing some of the waste and increasing the O2 levels. > > I've never owned a 15G... are they just taller versions of a 10G or longer? > Hopefully longer so that would give you more surface area and swimming room. > > Remember when you make the move, that you move your filter system from the > 10G to the 15G so you keep the majority of your nitrifying bacteria alive so > you won't have to deal with cycling the new set up. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of reading1113 > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner question > > Actually, I have a 20 gal that I will be setting up in a week or so, and my > adult ACF's will be going in there. That will free up my 15 gal, so I wonder > if in a 15 gal set up, will it still be overcrowded? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Well, if they aren't schooling now, they may not do it. > > > > Trying to squeeze two schools and the lone platy into a 10G is not > > recommended but if you decide to try it, definitely go with lots of > > live plants and be prepared for twice weekly PWC's to give the fish a > chance to > > be healthy. > > > > Why don't you just get another 10G tank... sometimes found for free on > > places like your local Freecycle.org group... and that would be > better for > > your fish and for you. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of reading1113 > > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I am a newbie here, and have a beginner > question > > > > Thanks for the answer. The neons hang together, and the bloodfins hang > > together. Now the two neons have a tendency to stray apart from one > another > > often, but those blood fins are always side by side. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > I think you would be overstocked by over 50%+ but if you used live > > plants > > > and did weekly or twice weekly 25% PWC's, it might work but read > > over the > > > rest of my reply for a better scenario. > > > > > > The Bloodfin Tetra's grow to a little over 2" and a 10G is the > > minimum sized > > > tank for them. Just a school of five of them would fully stock a > > 10G tank. > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html> > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Aphyocharax_anisiti.html> > > > > > > > Neon Tetra's only grow to 1.5" > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html> > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html> > so > > > even a > > school > > > of them would fully stock a 10G under normal circumstances. > > > > > > Have you noticed the tetras schooling together? Often times, fish > > from the > > > same family will school together so if you see this behavior, you > > could just > > > have three of each and let them school together as a group of six. > > > Oftentimes, when schooling fish feel comfortable in a tank, they'll > > stray > > > and not school as often unless they feel threatened. Not that this > > > is something you should do on a regular basis but try startling them > > > by > > tapping > > > on the glass to see if they come together as a school. That is one > > of the > > > primary reasons for keeping schooling fish in schools so they feel > > > less stressed when threatened. This scenario would be better than > > > trying > > to cram > > > two schools of fish into a 10G, along with the platy > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> > which would fully stock > > your tank. > > > > > > Regardless of what you decide, you should definitely get some easy > > to grow > > > live plants > > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 > > > > > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> > > > > and > > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > > > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > > > > > > > which > > > helps keep a 10G tank more stable as far as the overall ecology. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of reading1113 > > > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:19 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] I am a newbie here, and have a beginner > > > question > > > > > > I have a 10 gal with 2 bloodfins, 1 platie, and 2 neons in it. Now > the > > > original plan was not to have the neons in the first place, and get > > > more blood fins, but I rescued those neons, and now I am keeping them. > > > > > > I know the blood fins and neons do better in groups, so my question > > is this. > > > IF I get a total of 5 neons, 4 blood fins, and the platie, will I be > > > overcrowding my aquarium? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date: > 4/12/2008 > > 11:32 AM > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1376 - Release Date: 4/13/2008 > 1:45 PM > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1376 - Release Date: 4/13/2008 > 1:45 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27187	From: deberhardt85	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Tip For Making Your Aquarium Background Look GREAT

Water is the typical recommended method buy as anyone knows it evaporates in a day, I use baby oil spread lightly and evenly on the aquarium background and it looks great without evaporating. Try it out I'm sure you'll like the results!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27188	From: deberhardt85	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Issue With Fluval Cannister Filters

I do not like the performance of my Fluval FX5 for my 220g. cichlid community tank. My recent modification to the filter is replacing the corrugated tubing used for the feed and return plumbing with smooth food-grade plastic tubing. So far it seems to have helped. I would have to remove both sets of tubing at twice a month and spend a while cleaning the chunks of debris that became caught inside the corrugated areas of the tubes. Also, any fluctuation or turning on or off of the pump sent a nice unhealthy blast of debris from the corrugated tubes all of the aquarium.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27189	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/14/2008
Subject: Re: Issue With Fluval Cannister Filters

My Rena Filstar XP's use the clear/opaque 1" tubing and they also get algae growing inside the tubes. I like the smooth tubing over corrugated any day. Once a year, I take a bottle brush and a long piece of string and use my house vacuum cleaner to suck the string through the tubing, then pull the bottle brush through once or twice and it cleans all the algae. I think a black tubing would be more of an algae inhibitor since we know that algae needs nutrients and light to thrive so if you can get access to black food grade tubing, go for that option. Of course, whenever I do filter maintenance and restart the filter, some of that algae breaks free and goes spurting into the tank but my goldfish go crazy eating it so I don't think it's "unhealthy"... of course, I have clear tubing so I can see it's just algae so I'm not sure what is growing on the inside of blackened tubing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of deberhardt85 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Issue With Fluval Cannister Filters I do not like the performance of my Fluval FX5 for my 220g. cichlid community tank. My recent modification to the filter is replacing the corrugated tubing used for the feed and return plumbing with smooth food-grade plastic tubing. So far it seems to have helped. I would have to remove both sets of tubing at twice a month and spend a while cleaning the chunks of debris that became caught inside the corrugated areas of the tubes. Also, any fluctuation or turning on or off of the pump sent a nice unhealthy blast of debris from the corrugated tubes all of the aquarium. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1376 - Release Date: 4/13/2008 1:45 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27191	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Magazine

Lenny you made reference to Tropical Fishkeeping Hobbyist as being a good magazine in one of your post. Is that the same as Tropical Fish Hobbyist? I'm going to subscribe to one but want to make sure I get a good one. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ "> Try it now.</a> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27192	From: babsdvs	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Move - new question

I want to move my 30g from one room to another in the same house. I thought I would use a new picnic/cooler type container to put the water, filter stuff and fish into before moving the tank itself. Do I have to do anything to the new cooler to keep its plastic newness out of the water? I was also considering plastic bags lining the inside of the cooler but, same question. And is it really possible to move a tank with a little water, sand and gravel substrate and plants without the bottom falling out?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27193	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Has the fungus returned? it comes and goes (cichlid convict)

Hi again. I posted about a week ago about one of my male convicts, who appeared to have a body fungus -- white, cottony tufts on head and fins. I used maroxy and maracyn and it cleared up (I used the maroxy for five days only as the instructions said.) Since then, I've been watching my boys very closely, and two days ago, I noticed that the same guy had a white substance on his head, above his eyes in sort of a triangle shape toward the start of his dorsal fin. Yesterday, there was white stuff partially on his eye. Later in the day, it appeared to clear up along with the stuff on his head. Today, there's not as much on his head, but there is white stuff around his eyes. (Not covering the eye itself but around the eye.) Has the fungus returned, or perhaps never truly left? At this point, I don't know whether to start the maroxy again, move him to the hospital tank, or just wait and see what happens. I confess I have trouble with the idea of isolating him in the hospital tank if it's not contagious. Whatcha think?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27194	From: bruce cohen	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Free 250 gallon tank - Campbell, California

where are you located and are you in the los angeles area? if so i would be very much intrested in it please let me know thanks milster_1999 <lorrie.broderick@...> wrote: Hi I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to put this posting but I figured only real aquarium enthusiasts would be reading it. I have an approx. 250 gallon salt water aquarium I am giving away. It has been completely operational for about 8 years and professionally maintained - still in operation. Comes complete with lights, pumps, undertank, timers etc Has a lot of natural fijian rock as well. The tank is built in but can be moved with care. I am NOT looking for any money, just want it to go to someone who will appreciate it and install it. I don't want it to sit in a garage for years unused or sold off for parts. We will assist in removal of the tank but who ever takes it will have to make arrangements to have it moved. The professional who has been maintaining it is available to assist with takedown and set up in the bay area. You will have to negotiate a fee with him for this service. There is several thousand dollars worth of equipment here so please only those seriously interested reply. Thanks between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ "> Try it now.</a> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27195	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: clams

Hi everyone. I was wondering if anyone had info on clams. I saw some the other day and the profile said they are good at cleaning up. Anyone know? I was a little concerned about disease coming in and if they might overtake a tank like the snails have done to mine. Thanks for any help. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27196	From: aquaticjoy@aol.com	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Move - new question

Always rinse any plastic items that you want to use for transport with water only. Yes, you can move a tank with a small amount of water, etc. Have done it many times in the past. Putting fish in plastic bags is perfectly safe. Look at the bags that pet shops use. I worked at one and have transported fish this way. You just need to capture air before sealing and moving. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27197	From: aquaticjoy@aol.com	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Has the fungus returned? it comes and goes (cichlid convict)

I somehow got on this list due to my e-mail address. I did have a passion years ago for freshwater and saltwater fish. I had this hobby since I was 5 and for awhile worked at and ran pet shops. There are a lot of comments listed here that I don't have time to read, but I can give you all some basic advice for any tropicals you have be in fresh or salt. Make regular water changes, don't over populate your tank, check the PH level and don't overfeed. Make sure you have the necessary chemicals that you need when you introduce new fish. This new fish always go thru a shock period and may already carry disease so it is best to medicate the water when you introduce them. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27198	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: clams

Traci-- I don't think that there would be any danger in clams taking over-- They do not breed like snails. Their larva are usually part of the plankton and would probably be sucked up and trapped in your filter if not eaten (though some are parasitic on fish) Freshwater clams might be good at cleaning, but I think there is a bigger danger of them fouling the water that outweighs any benefits they give. Freshwater clams are usually buried below the gravel (and will not live long if they cannot burrow). You will not see them when they eventually die and they will decompose unseen. Even if you can see the clams, you might not be able to tell if they are alive or dead for several days. I have had success keeping marine clams alive (file clams, blue mussels..). These are above the surface of the gravel and can be fed and monitered. But I have a hard time keepingfreshwater clams which I have sometimes put in tanks for my bitterlings. I don't find them worth the trouble. Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Swatek-Rice, Traci" <t- swatek@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone. I was wondering if anyone had info on clams. I saw some the other > day and the profile said they are good at cleaning up. Anyone know? I was a > little concerned about disease coming in and if they might overtake a tank like > the snails have done to mine. Thanks for any help. > > Traci > <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27199	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Has the fungus returned? it comes and goes (cichlid convict)

Shirley, Quarantine him. Then determine whether he needs to be medicated or not. Fungus, of itself, is not a communicable disease, but removing the fish with it from the tank lessens the chance that it might spread to other fish who have a weakness that can be attacked. I don't know where your fungus boy is in the tank hierarchy, but he probably is not top dog, and my be lower on the tree, and, as such, is stressed, and may have had open wounds for the fungus to attack. Alone in a tank, he can be treated without worry for the other fish in the main tank, and can also have a shorter recovery period. Once the fungus has cleared, let him enjoy himself for at least 14 more days to build his strength up and ensure he does not relapse again. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Has the fungus returned? it comes and goes (cichlid convict) Hi again. I posted about a week ago about one of my male convicts, who appeared to have a body fungus -- white, cottony tufts on head and fins. I used maroxy and maracyn and it cleared up (I used the maroxy for five days only as the instructions said.) Since then, I've been watching my boys very closely, and two days ago, I noticed that the same guy had a white substance on his head, above his eyes in sort of a triangle shape toward the start of his dorsal fin. Yesterday, there was white stuff partially on his eye. Later in the day, it appeared to clear up along with the stuff on his head. Today, there's not as much on his head, but there is white stuff around his eyes. (Not covering the eye itself but around the eye.) Has the fungus returned, or perhaps never truly left? At this point, I don't know whether to start the maroxy again, move him to the hospital tank, or just wait and see what happens. I confess I have trouble with the idea of isolating him in the hospital tank if it's not contagious. Whatcha think?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27200	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Move - new question

The bottom of the tank should be held in place, supported by the frame, under normal circumstances, so it shouldn't fall out. I've moved tanks... even my 65G acrylic tank... with an inch or so of water and some gravel in the bottom but I had the tank supported by a piece of 3/4" plywood to keep from putting any undue stress on the tank so I and a helper was actually carrying the piece of wood with the tank sitting on it. I've also moved 10G and 20G tanks with a little water/gravel in them, by myself, with no problem and no wood. Leave very little water since the nitrifying bacteria living on the gravel will be fine as long as the gravel is wet... as long as you don't leave them without an ammonia source for very long. On another front... what kind of stand is the tank on? If it's very solid and doesn't wobble at all, I would probably leave the fish in the tank and remove 2/3rds of the water and then move the entire setup. This would keep the fish from having to be netted twice and would be less stressful. It would be like they are getting a large PWC and a new view. If you are on a hard floor, an old blanket works perfect for this type of move. After you've lowered the water level down to just 10G, have two people lift the stand up and slide the blanket under the stand. Then with the same two people supporting the stand/tank, you can pull the blanket to slide the entire setup from one room to the next. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Move - new question I want to move my 30g from one room to another in the same house. I thought I would use a new picnic/cooler type container to put the water, filter stuff and fish into before moving the tank itself. Do I have to do anything to the new cooler to keep its plastic newness out of the water? I was also considering plastic bags lining the inside of the cooler but, same question. And is it really possible to move a tank with a little water, sand and gravel substrate and plants without the bottom falling out? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27201	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Free 250 gallon tank - Campbell, California

Bruce, The Subject line says "Campbell, California", which according to Google Maps, is located in the San Jose metro area (south of Oakland), which further use of Google Maps shows it is 343 miles (5 hours 23 mins) from L.A. http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Campbell,+CA,+USA&um=1&sa=X& oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=title It still might be worth the long one day trip. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bruce cohen Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free 250 gallon tank - Campbell, California where are you located and are you in the los angeles area? if so i would be very much intrested in it please let me know thanks milster_1999 <lorrie.broderick@... <mailto:lorrie.broderick%40bigfoot.com> > wrote: Hi I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to put this posting but I figured only real aquarium enthusiasts would be reading it. I have an approx. 250 gallon salt water aquarium I am giving away. It has been completely operational for about 8 years and professionally maintained - still in operation. Comes complete with lights, pumps, undertank, timers etc Has a lot of natural fijian rock as well. The tank is built in but can be moved with care. I am NOT looking for any money, just want it to go to someone who will appreciate it and install it. I don't want it to sit in a garage for years unused or sold off for parts. We will assist in removal of the tank but who ever takes it will have to make arrangements to have it moved. The professional who has been maintaining it is available to assist with takedown and set up in the bay area. You will have to negotiate a fee with him for this service. There is several thousand dollars worth of equipment here so please only those seriously interested reply. Thanks No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27202	From: pete002314	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: any old fish tanks in FIFE (i can pick up)

I am looking for any old unwanted fish tanks 2 / 3 / 4 foot . email me ..... v6_astra@... ..... thankz Pete.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27203	From: aquaticjoy@aol.com	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Free 250 gallon tank - Campbell, California

Wow! Sounds great! Too bad you are not closer. I am thinking you are further North of me. I am in LB. I would love to have a complete working operation like that and am looking for someone to redo my 100 gal tank that sits in my family room. Some of my equipment fried on a vacation and I need to replace it all. A built in sounds wonderful. I am sure someone will jump at this. J~~~~~~~~~~~ **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27204	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2008
Subject: Re: Magazine

Yes, it is Tropical Fish Hobbyist. Sorry if I referred to it improperly. It is far superior to Aquarium Fish Magazine. For example, a recent edition of AFM has a long article on keeping U.S. native fish and says that a 30G tank is sufficient for a Channel Catfish. I wonder what the author was smoking??? These fish get HUGE with the current U.S. record being 58 lbs. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/species/ccf/ I rarely see that kind of horrible advice in TFH magazine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Magazine Lenny you made reference to Tropical Fishkeeping Hobbyist as being a good magazine in one of your post. Is that the same as Tropical Fish Hobbyist? I'm going to subscribe to one but want to make sure I get a good one. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27205	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: clams

Tom, Thanks for the info. That's just what I needed to know. I'll let them pass. I don't want my water getting bad a and killing the fish. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of mosquitokr2002 Sent: Tue 4/15/2008 8:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: clams Traci-- I don't think that there would be any danger in clams taking over-- They do not breed like snails. Their larva are usually part of the plankton and would probably be sucked up and trapped in your filter if not eaten (though some are parasitic on fish) Freshwater clams might be good at cleaning, but I think there is a bigger danger of them fouling the water that outweighs any benefits they give. Freshwater clams are usually buried below the gravel (and will not live long if they cannot burrow). You will not see them when they eventually die and they will decompose unseen. Even if you can see the clams, you might not be able to tell if they are alive or dead for several days. I have had success keeping marine clams alive (file clams, blue mussels..). These are above the surface of the gravel and can be fed and monitered. But I have a hard time keepingfreshwater clams which I have sometimes put in tanks for my bitterlings. I don't find them worth the trouble. Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Swatek-Rice, Traci" <t- swatek@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone. I was wondering if anyone had info on clams. I saw some the other > day and the profile said they are good at cleaning up. Anyone know? I was a > little concerned about disease coming in and if they might overtake a tank like > the snails have done to mine. Thanks for any help. > > Traci > <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27206	From: peter_s_halpern	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved fro

We bought an investment property where there were 8 koi (3-4") in a junky tank outside. One died because he jumped out after we transported them to our house. Really got my wife upset. We want to save them and give them a good home (ours in Tampa, Florida). They are already getting used to us. (Not hand feeding, but coming to us when we approach the holding tank... then swimming away to the far corner when we get "up close and personal" to feed them.) Our budget is $1000-1200 for purchase and we want to keep the electricity to below $20 a month. Tampa is on 9 cents per kWh We are looking only at good equality equipment that will satisfy all of the following needs: 1. Keep the water VERY clean and extremely well oxygenated and keep our fish as healthy as possible. 2. VERY, VERY quiet... our neighbors will complain otherwise. 3. Easy maintenance. 4. Low amperage. So, we don't mind high up front costs if it means our electric bill will be low. Here is what we are looking at to build the pond. (I will do it myself. I prefer to do it myself because if there is an issue later on, I have the knowledge factor to then fix it myself.) 1. Aqua Ultraviolet's Ultima II 2. Aqua Ultraviolet's 15W UV / wiper 3. Sequence pump (4200SEQ12) 4. Skimmer (no clue which one to get) 5. Waterfall (2 feet high) with 6-10" wier 6. Firestone EPDM 45mil 20'x20' 7. Underlayment (is there a superior brand? is it worth it?) 8. Is one bottom drain better than another? 9. Submersible fountain pump (small for extra aeration, not so much for 'show') So, here are the dimensions: (gallons = 8 x 4 x 4 x 7.48 = 957 Max width: 8' Max length: 4' Max depth: 4' (supposedly good to keep predators away) Horizontal and vertical distances from bottom drain through filtration to waterfall = 15' We will also have a few plants (anacharis?) in the pond to help with aeration. Will also have a 3ft wide bridge across the pond so the fish have a place to hide from predators and the hot Florida sun. Is the Aqua Ultraviolet with the Sequence pump going to be the best for this situation? Are there other recommendations which would be quieter? Since the plumbing will be underground, would you recommend going with copper piping instead of nonflexible / standard PVC? (I know how to work with both, I am more concerned about how long the PVC will last with heavy foot traffic.)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved

While there may be some Pond and Koi keepers on this group, I don't see them posting very often. I do belong to a group specifically for what you are looking for so you might want to try it also. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi I've had goldfish ponds before but never Koi since they need BIG ponds... or more like BIG swimming pools since the typical aquatic garden type pond for goldfish doesn't really work for Koi. You'll need around 500G per fish for long term success and Koi do live a long time.... up to 200 years reported for some specimen but most don't live that long. Your current dimensions would work for goldfish but not Koi. Also, any plants in a Koi pond would quickly become snacks. Even with goldfish, it happens. Since you are handy, you can probably do a lot yourself including building trickle tower filter systems, etc. but I'm not sure you'll be able to keep it within your current budget. Definitely DO NOT use copper pipe since copper is poisonous to our fish. I know we have to often fill our tanks and/or ponds using tap water that flows through copper pipes but that's a one time flow where your filtration system will have the water constantly flowing through the copper pipe. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of peter_s_halpern Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved from bad home We bought an investment property where there were 8 koi (3-4") in a junky tank outside. One died because he jumped out after we transported them to our house. Really got my wife upset. We want to save them and give them a good home (ours in Tampa, Florida). They are already getting used to us. (Not hand feeding, but coming to us when we approach the holding tank... then swimming away to the far corner when we get "up close and personal" to feed them.) Our budget is $1000-1200 for purchase and we want to keep the electricity to below $20 a month. Tampa is on 9 cents per kWh We are looking only at good equality equipment that will satisfy all of the following needs: 1. Keep the water VERY clean and extremely well oxygenated and keep our fish as healthy as possible. 2. VERY, VERY quiet... our neighbors will complain otherwise. 3. Easy maintenance. 4. Low amperage. So, we don't mind high up front costs if it means our electric bill will be low. Here is what we are looking at to build the pond. (I will do it myself. I prefer to do it myself because if there is an issue later on, I have the knowledge factor to then fix it myself.) 1. Aqua Ultraviolet's Ultima II 2. Aqua Ultraviolet's 15W UV / wiper 3. Sequence pump (4200SEQ12) 4. Skimmer (no clue which one to get) 5. Waterfall (2 feet high) with 6-10" wier 6. Firestone EPDM 45mil 20'x20' 7. Underlayment (is there a superior brand? is it worth it?) 8. Is one bottom drain better than another? 9. Submersible fountain pump (small for extra aeration, not so much for 'show') So, here are the dimensions: (gallons = 8 x 4 x 4 x 7.48 = 957 Max width: 8' Max length: 4' Max depth: 4' (supposedly good to keep predators away) Horizontal and vertical distances from bottom drain through filtration to waterfall = 15' We will also have a few plants (anacharis?) in the pond to help with aeration. Will also have a 3ft wide bridge across the pond so the fish have a place to hide from predators and the hot Florida sun. Is the Aqua Ultraviolet with the Sequence pump going to be the best for this situation? Are there other recommendations which would be quieter? Since the plumbing will be underground, would you recommend going with copper piping instead of nonflexible / standard PVC? (I know how to work with both, I am more concerned about how long the PVC will last with heavy foot traffic.) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27208	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved

Just out of curiosity, if you live in a northern clime where we have winter (with snow and sub-freezing temps), how do you house the koi that require such large tanks during the winter? Obviously you can't just stick them in a 55 gallon tank heheh. I live in Chicago and we do have some nasty winters from time to time (this year was a great example of this hehe). I have thought about putting together a pond at some point and wondered how this was dealt with. Do they make heaters that will keep a good sized pond warm enough for the fish and also how do you deal with predators (we have raccoons, coyotes, and raptors and apparently cougars have been making ac comeback too (they just killed one on the north side of Chicago yesterday). We have a family of coyotes that wanders our neighborhood out in the western suburbs. How do you protect with fish? I can imagine that for predators, this would be like, forgive the reference here, like shooting fish in a barrel. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny /*Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:33 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment /*choices? Fish saved from bad home /* /*While there may be some Pond and Koi keepers on this group, I don't see /*them /*posting very often. I do belong to a group specifically for what you are /*looking for so you might want to try it also. /*http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi /* /*I've had goldfish ponds before but never Koi since they need BIG ponds... /*or /*more like BIG swimming pools since the typical aquatic garden type pond /*for /*goldfish doesn't really work for Koi. You'll need around 500G per fish /*for /*long term success and Koi do live a long time.... up to 200 years reported /*for some specimen but most don't live that long. Your current dimensions /*would work for goldfish but not Koi. Also, any plants in a Koi pond would /*quickly become snacks. Even with goldfish, it happens. /* /*Since you are handy, you can probably do a lot yourself including building /*trickle tower filter systems, etc. but I'm not sure you'll be able to keep /*it within your current budget. /* /*Definitely DO NOT use copper pipe since copper is poisonous to our fish. /*I /*know we have to often fill our tanks and/or ponds using tap water that /*flows /*through copper pipes but that's a one time flow where your filtration /*system /*will have the water constantly flowing through the copper pipe. /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of peter_s_halpern /*Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:36 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment /*choices? /*Fish saved from bad home /* /*We bought an investment property where there were 8 koi (3-4") in a junky /*tank outside. One died because he jumped out after we transported them to /*our house. Really got my wife upset. /* /*We want to save them and give them a good home (ours in Tampa, Florida). /*They are already getting used to us. (Not hand feeding, but coming to us /*when we approach the holding tank... then swimming away to the far corner /*when we get "up close and personal" to feed /*them.) /* /*Our budget is $1000-1200 for purchase and we want to keep the electricity /*to /*below $20 a month. Tampa is on 9 cents per kWh We are looking only at good /*equality equipment that will satisfy all of the following needs: /*1. Keep the water VERY clean and extremely well oxygenated and keep our /*fish /*as healthy as possible. /*2. VERY, VERY quiet... our neighbors will complain otherwise. /*3. Easy maintenance. /*4. Low amperage. /* /*So, we don't mind high up front costs if it means our electric bill will /*be /*low. /* /*Here is what we are looking at to build the pond. (I will do it myself. I /*prefer to do it myself because if there is an issue later on, I have the /*knowledge factor to then fix it myself.) /* /*1. Aqua Ultraviolet's Ultima II /*2. Aqua Ultraviolet's 15W UV / wiper /*3. Sequence pump (4200SEQ12) /*4. Skimmer (no clue which one to get) /*5. Waterfall (2 feet high) with 6-10" wier 6. Firestone EPDM 45mil 20'x20' /*7. Underlayment (is there a superior brand? is it worth it?) 8. Is one /*bottom drain better than another? /*9. Submersible fountain pump (small for extra aeration, not so much for /*'show') /* /*So, here are the dimensions: (gallons = 8 x 4 x 4 x 7.48 = 957 Max width: /*8' /*Max length: 4' /*Max depth: 4' (supposedly good to keep predators away) /* /*Horizontal and vertical distances from bottom drain through filtration to /*waterfall = 15' /* /*We will also have a few plants (anacharis?) in the pond to help with /*aeration. /* /*Will also have a 3ft wide bridge across the pond so the fish have a place /*to /*hide from predators and the hot Florida sun. /* /*Is the Aqua Ultraviolet with the Sequence pump going to be the best for /*this /*situation? Are there other recommendations which would be quieter? /* /*Since the plumbing will be underground, would you recommend going with /*copper piping instead of nonflexible / standard PVC? /*(I know how to work with both, I am more concerned about how long the PVC /*will last with heavy foot traffic.) /* /* /* /*No virus found in this outgoing message. /*Checked by AVG. /*Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 /*6:10 PM /* /* /* /*------------------------------------ /* /*Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. /*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /*

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27209	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved

In that other Koi specific group I referenced, there are many members who live in extreme northern temps. Some over-winter their fish in the ponds and others bring them into their garages with a swimming pool set up for the winter. You can't heat an outdoor pond unless you are willing to spend big bucks but people do either put a floating donut heater to keep an opening in the ice or a floating bubbler to keep an opening in the ice to let the water outgas. On my blog, I have a page about Ponds (look down on the right side under labels) and I have links to many decent pond articles on overwintering them. Those same links will lead you to the many ways people deal with predators. If you go to that other Koi group, link down below, there's some recent discussions on reopening the pond after an overwinter when things weren't done just right so you can learn from others mistakes. I've never had major over wintering problems down here in New Orleans... except for keeping all the leaves out of the ponds and pool. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved from bad home Just out of curiosity, if you live in a northern clime where we have winter (with snow and sub-freezing temps), how do you house the koi that require such large tanks during the winter? Obviously you can't just stick them in a 55 gallon tank heheh. I live in Chicago and we do have some nasty winters from time to time (this year was a great example of this hehe). I have thought about putting together a pond at some point and wondered how this was dealt with. Do they make heaters that will keep a good sized pond warm enough for the fish and also how do you deal with predators (we have raccoons, coyotes, and raptors and apparently cougars have been making ac comeback too (they just killed one on the north side of Chicago yesterday). We have a family of coyotes that wanders our neighborhood out in the western suburbs. How do you protect with fish? I can imagine that for predators, this would be like, forgive the reference here, like shooting fish in a barrel. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny /*Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:33 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment /*choices? Fish saved from bad home /* /*While there may be some Pond and Koi keepers on this group, I don't see /*them /*posting very often. I do belong to a group specifically for what you are /*looking for so you might want to try it also. /* http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi /* /*I've had goldfish ponds before but never Koi since they need BIG ponds... /*or /*more like BIG swimming pools since the typical aquatic garden type pond /*for /*goldfish doesn't really work for Koi. You'll need around 500G per fish /*for /*long term success and Koi do live a long time.... up to 200 years reported /*for some specimen but most don't live that long. Your current dimensions /*would work for goldfish but not Koi. Also, any plants in a Koi pond would /*quickly become snacks. Even with goldfish, it happens. /* /*Since you are handy, you can probably do a lot yourself including building /*trickle tower filter systems, etc. but I'm not sure you'll be able to keep /*it within your current budget. /* /*Definitely DO NOT use copper pipe since copper is poisonous to our fish. /*I /*know we have to often fill our tanks and/or ponds using tap water that /*flows /*through copper pipes but that's a one time flow where your filtration /*system /*will have the water constantly flowing through the copper pipe. /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of peter_s_halpern /*Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:36 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment /*choices? /*Fish saved from bad home /* /*We bought an investment property where there were 8 koi (3-4") in a junky /*tank outside. One died because he jumped out after we transported them to /*our house. Really got my wife upset. /* /*We want to save them and give them a good home (ours in Tampa, Florida). /*They are already getting used to us. (Not hand feeding, but coming to us /*when we approach the holding tank... then swimming away to the far corner /*when we get "up close and personal" to feed /*them.) /* /*Our budget is $1000-1200 for purchase and we want to keep the electricity /*to /*below $20 a month. Tampa is on 9 cents per kWh We are looking only at good /*equality equipment that will satisfy all of the following needs: /*1. Keep the water VERY clean and extremely well oxygenated and keep our /*fish /*as healthy as possible. /*2. VERY, VERY quiet... our neighbors will complain otherwise. /*3. Easy maintenance. /*4. Low amperage. /* /*So, we don't mind high up front costs if it means our electric bill will /*be /*low. /* /*Here is what we are looking at to build the pond. (I will do it myself. I /*prefer to do it myself because if there is an issue later on, I have the /*knowledge factor to then fix it myself.) /* /*1. Aqua Ultraviolet's Ultima II /*2. Aqua Ultraviolet's 15W UV / wiper /*3. Sequence pump (4200SEQ12) /*4. Skimmer (no clue which one to get) /*5. Waterfall (2 feet high) with 6-10" wier 6. Firestone EPDM 45mil 20'x20' /*7. Underlayment (is there a superior brand? is it worth it?) 8. Is one /*bottom drain better than another? /*9. Submersible fountain pump (small for extra aeration, not so much for /*'show') /* /*So, here are the dimensions: (gallons = 8 x 4 x 4 x 7.48 = 957 Max width: /*8' /*Max length: 4' /*Max depth: 4' (supposedly good to keep predators away) /* /*Horizontal and vertical distances from bottom drain through filtration to /*waterfall = 15' /* /*We will also have a few plants (anacharis?) in the pond to help with /*aeration. /* /*Will also have a 3ft wide bridge across the pond so the fish have a place /*to /*hide from predators and the hot Florida sun. /* /*Is the Aqua Ultraviolet with the Sequence pump going to be the best for /*this /*situation? Are there other recommendations which would be quieter? /* /*Since the plumbing will be underground, would you recommend going with /*copper piping instead of nonflexible / standard PVC? /*(I know how to work with both, I am more concerned about how long the PVC /*will last with heavy foot traffic.) /* /* /* /*No virus found in this outgoing message. /*Checked by AVG. /*Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 /*6:10 PM /* /* /* /*------------------------------------ /* /*Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. /*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /* ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27210	From: iowakoi	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Spring is here at last

Dear Ponders, I just put my goldies back outside in the pond and they couldn't be happier. Now I just have to figure out where to setup the stock tank pond for the summer. Hope everyone is able to get into your ponds by now. Our pond Club the Central Iowa Water Garden Association meeting covered the basics of Spring pond care and I thought I'd pass along some of the tips members shared. You can visit their website at http://www.ciwga.org <http://www.ciwga.org/> for even more tips. You can head off algae by cleaning out as much muck as possible and starting your algae control program. String and pea soup algae grow more rapidly than your plants. Barley straw and beneficial bacteria are best used as a preventive. The water gardeners international http://www.watergardenersinternational.org <http://www.watergardenersinternational.org/> uses a product called a water wych because it keeps the algae down and balances your water. Last year I learned the hard way what happens if your don't keep on top of algae. My pond turned pea soup green over a matter of days and I lost some fish that got trapped under a tipped over waterlily pot. One of the ones I lost was over 8 years old. So I can't stress water quality enough. It's also time to get in and divide your plants. Jamie Beyer an expert watergardener did a great presentation on plant divisions . Here's the link to the video http://www.ciwga.org/photos/divisions/homepage.htm <http://www.ciwga.org/photos/divisions/homepage.htm> . Our pond club does a plant exchange every year. Joining your local pond club is a great way to get 1st hand experience. Fish are becoming more active and are ready to start eating agian. Koi will love a treat of peeled oranges, dark lettuce, peas, watercress and some even enjoy watermelon. Until the water reaches 70 or so use a wheat germ based food. Just don't overfed them at any time! Using a feeding ring will train them to come to you for closer viewing. You should keep and eye out for any illnesses or injuries. I hoe you find these tips helpful. Happy Ponding, Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27211	From: aquaticjoy@aol.com	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish ...

I have a small pond that has a waterfall in our backyard. We have babysat my husband's boss's koi in it several times. Never seem to have the time to keep up on a koi pond for ourselves. J~~~~~ **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27212	From: Russ Foley	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: PhProblems New tank

Hi there, Due to having 50 or so babie guppie babies which will soon have to be moved to another tank. I have started another tank but to be honest I can not get the PH to go down at all. It has been running at least a week or so and I have used PH buffer to try and lower it without luck. Do some sorts of gravel mess with the PH as I can not think what it could be and have got to the point of draining it and changing the gravel and re filling it and starting again. Do any people have any suggestions. Thanks Russ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27213	From: peter_s_halpern	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved

Lenny - Thank you so much. I will subscribe now. Have a blessed day Peter --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > While there may be some Pond and Koi keepers on this group, I don't see them > posting very often. I do belong to a group specifically for what you are > looking for so you might want to try it also. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi > > I've had goldfish ponds before but never Koi since they need BIG ponds... or > more like BIG swimming pools since the typical aquatic garden type pond for > goldfish doesn't really work for Koi. You'll need around 500G per fish for > long term success and Koi do live a long time.... up to 200 years reported > for some specimen but most don't live that long. Your current dimensions > would work for goldfish but not Koi. Also, any plants in a Koi pond would > quickly become snacks. Even with goldfish, it happens. > > Since you are handy, you can probably do a lot yourself including building > trickle tower filter systems, etc. but I'm not sure you'll be able to keep > it within your current budget. > > Definitely DO NOT use copper pipe since copper is poisonous to our fish. I > know we have to often fill our tanks and/or ponds using tap water that flows > through copper pipes but that's a one time flow where your filtration system > will have the water constantly flowing through the copper pipe. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of peter_s_halpern > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:36 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? > Fish saved from bad home > > We bought an investment property where there were 8 koi (3-4") in a junky > tank outside. One died because he jumped out after we transported them to > our house. Really got my wife upset. > > We want to save them and give them a good home (ours in Tampa, Florida). > They are already getting used to us. (Not hand feeding, but coming to us > when we approach the holding tank... then swimming away to the far corner > when we get "up close and personal" to feed > them.) > > Our budget is $1000-1200 for purchase and we want to keep the electricity to > below $20 a month. Tampa is on 9 cents per kWh We are looking only at good > equality equipment that will satisfy all of the following needs: > 1. Keep the water VERY clean and extremely well oxygenated and keep our fish > as healthy as possible. > 2. VERY, VERY quiet... our neighbors will complain otherwise. > 3. Easy maintenance. > 4. Low amperage. > > So, we don't mind high up front costs if it means our electric bill will be > low. > > Here is what we are looking at to build the pond. (I will do it myself. I > prefer to do it myself because if there is an issue later on, I have the > knowledge factor to then fix it myself.) > > 1. Aqua Ultraviolet's Ultima II > 2. Aqua Ultraviolet's 15W UV / wiper > 3. Sequence pump (4200SEQ12) > 4. Skimmer (no clue which one to get) > 5. Waterfall (2 feet high) with 6-10" wier 6. Firestone EPDM 45mil 20'x20' > 7. Underlayment (is there a superior brand? is it worth it?) 8. Is one > bottom drain better than another? > 9. Submersible fountain pump (small for extra aeration, not so much for > 'show') > > So, here are the dimensions: (gallons = 8 x 4 x 4 x 7.48 = 957 Max width: 8' > Max length: 4' > Max depth: 4' (supposedly good to keep predators away) > > Horizontal and vertical distances from bottom drain through filtration to > waterfall = 15' > > We will also have a few plants (anacharis?) in the pond to help with > aeration. > > Will also have a 3ft wide bridge across the pond so the fish have a place to > hide from predators and the hot Florida sun. > > Is the Aqua Ultraviolet with the Sequence pump going to be the best for this > situation? Are there other recommendations which would be quieter? > > Since the plumbing will be underground, would you recommend going with > copper piping instead of nonflexible / standard PVC? > (I know how to work with both, I am more concerned about how long the PVC > will last with heavy foot traffic.) > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 > 6:10 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27214	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

Aragonite and crushed coral will raise pH. What is your pH out of the tap? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russ Foley Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank Hi there, Due to having 50 or so babie guppie babies which will soon have to be moved to another tank. I have started another tank but to be honest I can not get the PH to go down at all. It has been running at least a week or so and I have used PH buffer to try and lower it without luck. Do some sorts of gravel mess with the PH as I can not think what it could be and have got to the point of draining it and changing the gravel and re filling it and starting again. Do any people have any suggestions. Thanks Russ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27215	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

What are your pH numbers on your existing tank, new tank and tap water? DO NOT use those pH chemicals on your tanks. They cause far more problems than they fix. Yes, there are some substrates that will raise the pH but I doubt that is your problem. What kind of substrate do you have? I think your water parameter variances are coming from the overstocked condition of one tank versus zero ecology going on in the other. A natural part of a tank's ecology will cause the pH to constantly get lower due to carbonic gases being released from decaying detritus and the fact that your fish and biological filtration utilizes many of the trace elements and calcium carbonate in the water that would normally make it harder and less susceptible to a lowering pH. This is why your existing tank has a lower pH than your newly set up tank. To get your new tank to the same pH as your existing tank, when you do your PWC's, take water from the old tank and put it in your new tank until both waters have similar water parameters. Also, do a baseline test on your tap/source water so you will know better what is happening to your tap/source water as it comes out the tap and after it is exposed to air/light for 24-48 hours. See my blog article on establishing your tap/source water baseline. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russ Foley Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank Hi there, Due to having 50 or so babie guppie babies which will soon have to be moved to another tank. I have started another tank but to be honest I can not get the PH to go down at all. It has been running at least a week or so and I have used PH buffer to try and lower it without luck. Do some sorts of gravel mess with the PH as I can not think what it could be and have got to the point of draining it and changing the gravel and re filling it and starting again. Do any people have any suggestions. Thanks Russ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27216	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved

Your pond may be OK for the koi right now, but as they grow they will need more room than you have in the pond you are planning to construct. This means that you will either expand your efforts with this pond and make it bigger, or you will build another, bigger pond, and, perhaps, join the two together with a stream or other such water feature. Keep in mind that your little 3" fish can grow to 47", meaning they will have a hard time turning around in your 4' width pond (puddle, now <g>). My last full sized pond was built about 20 years ago, and for the liner, I used a material called Permalon which was fairly thin, but relatively impervious to punctures. I do not know how available it is today. I never did use UV, but it can be helpful in certain situations. The water pump needs to have enough oomph to push water through the filter to a level where the waterfall will work, and be able to turn over the pond at a rate of 5-6 times a day, or a bit more, since you will be rapidly overcrowded in your pond. You do not mention a filter in your list. A good one can be built relatively inexpensively and can use bioballs for biological filtration. Use of foam as a particulate filter is also suggested, either in the pond itself, or in a filter box with or without the bioballs. The foam will also serve for biological filtration. For under the liner, I have found stone dust to be a good material to use. Old newspapers also serve well. No need to get fancy. No one will ever see it once it is covered. Any plants you use will need to be caged to keep the koi from eating them. Plumbing. Go with the PVC. Buried wisely, you will not need to worry about traffic over it. Copper, when there is enough of it, can be toxic to your fish. Do some reading on this. You mentioned a skimmer earlier, and now I know what you mean, a foam fractioner. That, along with the UV, should you still decide to use it, should be in the filter area, which will be, somewhat, hidden from viewers of the pond. (Judicious plantings around that area and end of the pond will help.) I have never used a bottom drain, so I cannot comment on that, but you may wish to use a pool skimmer type arrangement as well to remove the larger debris from the water before it hits the filter or pump. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of peter_s_halpern Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved from bad home We bought an investment property where there were 8 koi (3-4") in a junky tank outside. One died because he jumped out after we transported them to our house. Really got my wife upset. We want to save them and give them a good home (ours in Tampa, Florida). They are already getting used to us. (Not hand feeding, but coming to us when we approach the holding tank... then swimming away to the far corner when we get "up close and personal" to feed them.) Our budget is $1000-1200 for purchase and we want to keep the electricity to below $20 a month. Tampa is on 9 cents per kWh We are looking only at good equality equipment that will satisfy all of the following needs: 1. Keep the water VERY clean and extremely well oxygenated and keep our fish as healthy as possible. 2. VERY, VERY quiet... our neighbors will complain otherwise. 3. Easy maintenance. 4. Low amperage. So, we don't mind high up front costs if it means our electric bill will be low. Here is what we are looking at to build the pond. (I will do it myself. I prefer to do it myself because if there is an issue later on, I have the knowledge factor to then fix it myself.) 1. Aqua Ultraviolet's Ultima II 2. Aqua Ultraviolet's 15W UV / wiper 3. Sequence pump (4200SEQ12) 4. Skimmer (no clue which one to get) 5. Waterfall (2 feet high) with 6-10" wier 6. Firestone EPDM 45mil 20'x20' 7. Underlayment (is there a superior brand? is it worth it?) 8. Is one bottom drain better than another? 9. Submersible fountain pump (small for extra aeration, not so much for 'show') So, here are the dimensions: (gallons = 8 x 4 x 4 x 7.48 = 957 Max width: 8' Max length: 4' Max depth: 4' (supposedly good to keep predators away) Horizontal and vertical distances from bottom drain through filtration to waterfall = 15' We will also have a few plants (anacharis?) in the pond to help with aeration. Will also have a 3ft wide bridge across the pond so the fish have a place to hide from predators and the hot Florida sun. Is the Aqua Ultraviolet with the Sequence pump going to be the best for this situation? Are there other recommendations which would be quieter? Since the plumbing will be underground, would you recommend going with copper piping instead of nonflexible / standard PVC? (I know how to work with both, I am more concerned about how long the PVC will last with heavy foot traffic.) ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27217	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved

Most I know would build ponds in their basements or garages to house the fish over the winter2x6's were used for the sides with at least 4x4's for the posts. A liner was laid in, and canister filters were set up for filtration and water movement. One person I knew could have his 3 indoor ponds set up and running in an afternoon. When bringing the fish in, he would bring in a lot of pond water as well. Lenny mentioned the use of pond heaters, which is possible, as is aeration, to keep a hole open in the ice for gaseous exchange. This can be effective to a certain extent, depending on where you are located and the severity of the winter. One problem with aeration is that it has a tendency to mix water too much, making the pond one temperature rather than having a couple or more temperature zones defined within the pond. The heaters need only to heat enough to keep the ice from forming in a specific area around the heater. It does cost money, and if it is cold enough, it can be a bit ineffective. The design of your pond can help or hinder the predators you mention. Steep sides an depth at the edges make it hard for them to get at the fish. Keeping the area immediately around the pond can discourage those predators who like some sort of cover to do their work in, and also gives you some area to layout various constructions designed to keep predators away. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved from bad home Just out of curiosity, if you live in a northern clime where we have winter (with snow and sub-freezing temps), how do you house the koi that require such large tanks during the winter? Obviously you can't just stick them in a 55 gallon tank heheh. I live in Chicago and we do have some nasty winters from time to time (this year was a great example of this hehe). I have thought about putting together a pond at some point and wondered how this was dealt with. Do they make heaters that will keep a good sized pond warm enough for the fish and also how do you deal with predators (we have raccoons, coyotes, and raptors and apparently cougars have been making ac comeback too (they just killed one on the north side of Chicago yesterday). We have a family of coyotes that wanders our neighborhood out in the western suburbs. How do you protect with fish? I can imagine that for predators, this would be like, forgive the reference here, like shooting fish in a barrel. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny /*Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:33 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment /*choices? Fish saved from bad home /* /*While there may be some Pond and Koi keepers on this group, I don't see /*them /*posting very often. I do belong to a group specifically for what you are /*looking for so you might want to try it also. /*http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi /* /*I've had goldfish ponds before but never Koi since they need BIG ponds... /*or /*more like BIG swimming pools since the typical aquatic garden type pond /*for /*goldfish doesn't really work for Koi. You'll need around 500G per fish /*for /*long term success and Koi do live a long time.... up to 200 years reported /*for some specimen but most don't live that long. Your current dimensions /*would work for goldfish but not Koi. Also, any plants in a Koi pond would /*quickly become snacks. Even with goldfish, it happens. /* /*Since you are handy, you can probably do a lot yourself including building /*trickle tower filter systems, etc. but I'm not sure you'll be able to keep /*it within your current budget. /* /*Definitely DO NOT use copper pipe since copper is poisonous to our fish. /*I /*know we have to often fill our tanks and/or ponds using tap water that /*flows /*through copper pipes but that's a one time flow where your filtration /*system /*will have the water constantly flowing through the copper pipe. /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of peter_s_halpern /*Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:36 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment /*choices? /*Fish saved from bad home /* /*We bought an investment property where there were 8 koi (3-4") in a junky /*tank outside. One died because he jumped out after we transported them to /*our house. Really got my wife upset. /* /*We want to save them and give them a good home (ours in Tampa, Florida). /*They are already getting used to us. (Not hand feeding, but coming to us /*when we approach the holding tank... then swimming away to the far corner /*when we get "up close and personal" to feed /*them.) /* /*Our budget is $1000-1200 for purchase and we want to keep the electricity /*to /*below $20 a month. Tampa is on 9 cents per kWh We are looking only at good /*equality equipment that will satisfy all of the following needs: /*1. Keep the water VERY clean and extremely well oxygenated and keep our /*fish /*as healthy as possible. /*2. VERY, VERY quiet... our neighbors will complain otherwise. /*3. Easy maintenance. /*4. Low amperage. /* /*So, we don't mind high up front costs if it means our electric bill will /*be /*low. /* /*Here is what we are looking at to build the pond. (I will do it myself. I /*prefer to do it myself because if there is an issue later on, I have the /*knowledge factor to then fix it myself.) /* /*1. Aqua Ultraviolet's Ultima II /*2. Aqua Ultraviolet's 15W UV / wiper /*3. Sequence pump (4200SEQ12) /*4. Skimmer (no clue which one to get) /*5. Waterfall (2 feet high) with 6-10" wier 6. Firestone EPDM 45mil 20'x20' /*7. Underlayment (is there a superior brand? is it worth it?) 8. Is one /*bottom drain better than another? /*9. Submersible fountain pump (small for extra aeration, not so much for /*'show') /* /*So, here are the dimensions: (gallons = 8 x 4 x 4 x 7.48 = 957 Max width: /*8' /*Max length: 4' /*Max depth: 4' (supposedly good to keep predators away) /* /*Horizontal and vertical distances from bottom drain through filtration to /*waterfall = 15' /* /*We will also have a few plants (anacharis?) in the pond to help with /*aeration. /* /*Will also have a 3ft wide bridge across the pond so the fish have a place /*to /*hide from predators and the hot Florida sun. /* /*Is the Aqua Ultraviolet with the Sequence pump going to be the best for /*this /*situation? Are there other recommendations which would be quieter? /* /*Since the plumbing will be underground, would you recommend going with /*copper piping instead of nonflexible / standard PVC? /*(I know how to work with both, I am more concerned about how long the PVC /*will last with heavy foot traffic.) /*

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27218	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved

Steve, I just wanted to clarify that I didn't suggest aeration from the bottom of the pond but rather a floating surface bubbler so it doesn't cause any actual movement in the total pond volume so the thermoclines stay uniform. It just relies on the warm air from the pump rather than a coil heater. I've also seen web articles where people run a length of pvc tubing from the edge of the pond to the middle so that the end in the middle of the pond is a few inches underwater and then air is pumped through that length of tube to agitate the surface in that area to keep if from freezing over. This method keeps from having to run any wiring into the pond for folks that don't want to have the wiring and it is also easier to maintain or fix in the event of mechanical problems in the middle of the winter when you might not want to venture onto possibly thin ice if one of the floating ring devices should malfunction. Fortunately, I've never had to worry about my former ponds freezing over. The last time the New Orleans area had a "severe" freeze was Christmas weekend of 1989 when we had sub-freezing temps for 72 hours straight and everything was freezing over... that was also the same weekend that I got married to my last ex-wife. My mom always said it would be a cold day in hell if I ever got married. I should have taken that freeze as a message from God! LOL What was even worse was when things started un-freezing and all of the busted and now-defrosted water pipes in our under-insulated walls started flooding out the walls and homes in the entire metro area since so many folks didn't turn off their water main, not realizing their pipes had swelled up and busted. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved from bad home Most I know would build ponds in their basements or garages to house the fish over the winter2x6's were used for the sides with at least 4x4's for the posts. A liner was laid in, and canister filters were set up for filtration and water movement. One person I knew could have his 3 indoor ponds set up and running in an afternoon. When bringing the fish in, he would bring in a lot of pond water as well. Lenny mentioned the use of pond heaters, which is possible, as is aeration, to keep a hole open in the ice for gaseous exchange. This can be effective to a certain extent, depending on where you are located and the severity of the winter. One problem with aeration is that it has a tendency to mix water too much, making the pond one temperature rather than having a couple or more temperature zones defined within the pond. The heaters need only to heat enough to keep the ice from forming in a specific area around the heater. It does cost money, and if it is cold enough, it can be a bit ineffective. The design of your pond can help or hinder the predators you mention. Steep sides an depth at the edges make it hard for them to get at the fish. Keeping the area immediately around the pond can discourage those predators who like some sort of cover to do their work in, and also gives you some area to layout various constructions designed to keep predators away. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment choices? Fish saved from bad home Just out of curiosity, if you live in a northern clime where we have winter (with snow and sub-freezing temps), how do you house the koi that require such large tanks during the winter? Obviously you can't just stick them in a 55 gallon tank heheh. I live in Chicago and we do have some nasty winters from time to time (this year was a great example of this hehe). I have thought about putting together a pond at some point and wondered how this was dealt with. Do they make heaters that will keep a good sized pond warm enough for the fish and also how do you deal with predators (we have raccoons, coyotes, and raptors and apparently cougars have been making ac comeback too (they just killed one on the north side of Chicago yesterday). We have a family of coyotes that wanders our neighborhood out in the western suburbs. How do you protect with fish? I can imagine that for predators, this would be like, forgive the reference here, like shooting fish in a barrel. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On /*Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny /*Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:33 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment /*choices? Fish saved from bad home /* /*While there may be some Pond and Koi keepers on this group, I don't see /*them /*posting very often. I do belong to a group specifically for what you are /*looking for so you might want to try it also. /*http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi> /* /*I've had goldfish ponds before but never Koi since they need BIG ponds... /*or /*more like BIG swimming pools since the typical aquatic garden type pond /*for /*goldfish doesn't really work for Koi. You'll need around 500G per fish /*for /*long term success and Koi do live a long time.... up to 200 years reported /*for some specimen but most don't live that long. Your current dimensions /*would work for goldfish but not Koi. Also, any plants in a Koi pond would /*quickly become snacks. Even with goldfish, it happens. /* /*Since you are handy, you can probably do a lot yourself including building /*trickle tower filter systems, etc. but I'm not sure you'll be able to keep /*it within your current budget. /* /*Definitely DO NOT use copper pipe since copper is poisonous to our fish. /*I /*know we have to often fill our tanks and/or ponds using tap water that /*flows /*through copper pipes but that's a one time flow where your filtration /*system /*will have the water constantly flowing through the copper pipe. /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On /*Behalf Of peter_s_halpern /*Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:36 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> /*Subject: [AquaticLife] New Koi Pond - 750+ gallons, best equipment /*choices? /*Fish saved from bad home /* /*We bought an investment property where there were 8 koi (3-4") in a junky /*tank outside. One died because he jumped out after we transported them to /*our house. Really got my wife upset. /* /*We want to save them and give them a good home (ours in Tampa, Florida). /*They are already getting used to us. (Not hand feeding, but coming to us /*when we approach the holding tank... then swimming away to the far corner /*when we get "up close and personal" to feed /*them.) /* /*Our budget is $1000-1200 for purchase and we want to keep the electricity /*to /*below $20 a month. Tampa is on 9 cents per kWh We are looking only at good /*equality equipment that will satisfy all of the following needs: /*1. Keep the water VERY clean and extremely well oxygenated and keep our /*fish /*as healthy as possible. /*2. VERY, VERY quiet... our neighbors will complain otherwise. /*3. Easy maintenance. /*4. Low amperage. /* /*So, we don't mind high up front costs if it means our electric bill will /*be /*low. /* /*Here is what we are looking at to build the pond. (I will do it myself. I /*prefer to do it myself because if there is an issue later on, I have the /*knowledge factor to then fix it myself.) /* /*1. Aqua Ultraviolet's Ultima II /*2. Aqua Ultraviolet's 15W UV / wiper /*3. Sequence pump (4200SEQ12) /*4. Skimmer (no clue which one to get) /*5. Waterfall (2 feet high) with 6-10" wier 6. Firestone EPDM 45mil 20'x20' /*7. Underlayment (is there a superior brand? is it worth it?) 8. Is one /*bottom drain better than another? /*9. Submersible fountain pump (small for extra aeration, not so much for /*'show') /* /*So, here are the dimensions: (gallons = 8 x 4 x 4 x 7.48 = 957 Max width: /*8' /*Max length: 4' /*Max depth: 4' (supposedly good to keep predators away) /* /*Horizontal and vertical distances from bottom drain through filtration to /*waterfall = 15' /* /*We will also have a few plants (anacharis?) in the pond to help with /*aeration. /* /*Will also have a 3ft wide bridge across the pond so the fish have a place /*to /*hide from predators and the hot Florida sun. /* /*Is the Aqua Ultraviolet with the Sequence pump going to be the best for /*this /*situation? Are there other recommendations which would be quieter? /* /*Since the plumbing will be underground, would you recommend going with /*copper piping instead of nonflexible / standard PVC? /*(I know how to work with both, I am more concerned about how long the PVC /*will last with heavy foot traffic.) /* No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27219	From: aquaticjoy@aol.com	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

I guess that is why I have never had a PH problem. My tank has always had coral in it and as mentioned keeping the proper ratio of fish to water really helps. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27220	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

If I can latch on to this thread. I have a problem low ph in my newest tank that I'd love advice on. The manzanita has made the ph VERY low. Kate Russ Foley <groups@...> wrote: Hi there, Due to having 50 or so babie guppie babies which will soon have to be moved to another tank. I have started another tank but to be honest I can not get the PH to go down at all. It has been running at least a week or so and I have used PH buffer to try and lower it without luck. Do some sorts of gravel mess with the PH as I can not think what it could be and have got to the point of draining it and changing the gravel and re filling it and starting again. Do any people have any suggestions. Thanks Russ --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

I'm guessing it's manzanita driftwood since the actual trees/bushes are terrestrial. ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manzanita Most driftwoods will release tannins into the water.. which makes the water brownish colored. Tannins have a very low pH and will therefore lower the pH of the tank. You can run fresh carbon or other more advanced chemical filtration like Purigen to help remove the tannins from the water... if you do not have fish that prefer it. Some species like acidic water and thrive in the tannin colored/tainted water. As driftwood gets a lot older in a tank, it slowly deteriorates and this will also cause the pH to lower due to the decaying organic matter releasing carbonic acid and gas into the water. It's a good idea to check it every year or two to make sure it's not suffering from wood rot. You can also do PWC's to remove the tannin tainted water and replace it with "normal" water but you should do smaller 10% PWC's so you do not change the water parameters and pH too much, too fast, as this is not good for fish either. They slowly acclimate to bad or different water parameters so they should be slowly acclimated back to good or different water parameters to avoid osmoregulatory stress or pH shock problems. pH shock can be deadly. What kind of fish do you have? They may be fish that prefer that type of water so the above may not be necessary. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank If I can latch on to this thread. I have a problem low ph in my newest tank that I'd love advice on. The manzanita has made the ph VERY low. Kate Russ Foley <groups@... <mailto:groups%40rjkaraoke.co.uk> > wrote: Hi there, Due to having 50 or so babie guppie babies which will soon have to be moved to another tank. I have started another tank but to be honest I can not get the PH to go down at all. It has been running at least a week or so and I have used PH buffer to try and lower it without luck. Do some sorts of gravel mess with the PH as I can not think what it could be and have got to the point of draining it and changing the gravel and re filling it and starting again. Do any people have any suggestions. Thanks Russ --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27222	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank - Kate Konrow

Ooops! (Yes, even I make a mistake now and then.. lol) I was reading that article, that I referenced, a little more and saw that, supposedly, Manzanita driftwood is resistant to leaching tannins into the water so maybe it's not the driftwood in this case... of course, it was a Wikipedia article I cited so it may or may not be accurate. ;-) A snip from the article, "...Some aquarium keepers use sandblasted manzanita as driftwood in planted aquaria because of its attractive forked growth and its chemical neutrality. If properly cleaned and cured, it holds up well over extended periods of submersion. The wood is also resistant to the leaching of tannins into the water column, a problem often found with other aquarium driftwoods. When used as driftwood, manzanita must often be either weighted down for several weeks or soaked first to counteract the wood's natural buoyancy...." First, I would check to make sure it's Manzanita driftwood. If it definitely is, then give us your tap/source water baseline test results and the actual numbers from those tests and your tank numbers. pH, GH, KH and the other usual tests would be helpful. My blog has an article on establishing your tap water baseline. How often are you doing filter maintenance and what are you doing when you do filter maintenance? How often are you doing PWC's? Tell us more about the entire tank, fish, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:41 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank I'm guessing it's manzanita driftwood since the actual trees/bushes are terrestrial. ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manzanita Most driftwoods will release tannins into the water.. which makes the water brownish colored. Tannins have a very low pH and will therefore lower the pH of the tank. You can run fresh carbon or other more advanced chemical filtration like Purigen to help remove the tannins from the water... if you do not have fish that prefer it. Some species like acidic water and thrive in the tannin colored/tainted water. As driftwood gets a lot older in a tank, it slowly deteriorates and this will also cause the pH to lower due to the decaying organic matter releasing carbonic acid and gas into the water. It's a good idea to check it every year or two to make sure it's not suffering from wood rot. You can also do PWC's to remove the tannin tainted water and replace it with "normal" water but you should do smaller 10% PWC's so you do not change the water parameters and pH too much, too fast, as this is not good for fish either. They slowly acclimate to bad or different water parameters so they should be slowly acclimated back to good or different water parameters to avoid osmoregulatory stress or pH shock problems. pH shock can be deadly. What kind of fish do you have? They may be fish that prefer that type of water so the above may not be necessary. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank If I can latch on to this thread. I have a problem low ph in my newest tank that I'd love advice on. The manzanita has made the ph VERY low. Kate Russ Foley <groups@... <mailto:groups%40rjkaraoke.co.uk> > wrote: Hi there, Due to having 50 or so babie guppie babies which will soon have to be moved to another tank. I have started another tank but to be honest I can not get the PH to go down at all. It has been running at least a week or so and I have used PH buffer to try and lower it without luck. Do some sorts of gravel mess with the PH as I can not think what it could be and have got to the point of draining it and changing the gravel and re filling it and starting again. Do any people have any suggestions. Thanks Russ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1382 - Release Date: 4/16/2008 5:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27223	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

I think OP's problem is that pH is too high for the fish. You must keep hard water fish like African cichlids to say you have coral and no pH problems. For many, coral is avoided because they do NOT want the high pH. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aquaticjoy@... Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank I guess that is why I have never had a PH problem. My tank has always had coral in it and as mentioned keeping the proper ratio of fish to water really helps. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos. <http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851> aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27224	From: aquaticjoy@aol.com	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

The PH has a lot to due with the increase in population. Water changes help and chemicals to balance the PH. If your tank is overpopulated, it is best to remove fish because levels will continue to be unbalanced and the water is polluted quickly. I like under gravel filters, outside box filters and lots of aeration in my tanks. Using charcoal, plus other substrate for collection of good bacteria helps. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27225	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

Yes, there are certain types of gravel and/or gravel additives that will sustain certain pH levels because of there alkalinity (buffering capacity); these include crushed coral as well as dolomite and gravel containing amounts of calcium carbonate, etc. But is there a reason why you feel that you need to lower the pH? Guppies enjoy a high pH, up to a point -- what is your tank water pH? What is the pH of your tap water? The "high" pH may not be due to your gravel. BTW, I'd just like to point out an incidental, which you may already be aware of; a tank set up for only a week is far from being cycled. As it goes through the cycle, it may or may not cause problems for your guppy fry. Fifty guppy fry do not sound like very much of a bioload, but then this all depends directly on the size of this grow-out tank. As these fry grow, and you'll need to increase their feedings, you'll need to keep on top of the water parameters more and be prepared to increase their PWC's. I'd recommend to at least "seed" this tank now with a portion of your existing filter material in your established tank, to the filter of your new tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Russ Foley" <groups@...> wrote: > > Hi there, Due to having 50 or so babie guppie babies which will soon > have to be moved to another tank. I have started another tank but to > be honest I can not get the PH to go down at all. It has been running > at least a week or so and I have used PH buffer to try and lower it > without luck. > > Do some sorts of gravel mess with the PH as I can not think what it > could be and have got to the point of draining it and changing the > gravel and re filling it and starting again. > > Do any people have any suggestions. > > Thanks > > Russ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27226	From: judy_be	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: sand for corydoras

I'm setting up a new aquarium for my large herd of albino corydoras. Someone suggested I use a black sand available from Foster Smith. Would you all agree that I should use sand? I wonder, since they are bottom feeders, if sand is not a good idea since they would ingest it. Silly me, but I wonder. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27227	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: sand for corydoras

Remember that catfish in the wild regularly sift through whatever substrate they happen to have so they are "set up" to sift through it and expel anything not digestible, either they'll spit it out, pass it through their gill slips or expel it with their waste. The main thing I've heard with sand and fish like loaches and other soft bellied or scaleless fish is that you want the sand to not be too sharp. There are some sands that when viewed under a microscope or high powered magnifying glass that you can see the very sharp glass-like edges and other sands have more rounded edges. If the sand is too sharp, it will wear down their barbs (whiskers) and cause wear and tear to their bellies. Just try to make sure that whatever product you choose, that it's recommended for your fish type. Also, with sand, it would be good to get some MTS snails (Malaysian Trumpet Snails) which are not mass producers and they are good at burrowing into the sand in search of food so they'll help keep the sand cleaner and also keep if from getting compacted which can cause anaerobic bacteria patches. With snails, you'll need alkaline water or at least neutral water with a decent amount of GH and KH to keep the snail shells healthy so if you have very soft and acidic water, pass on the MTS snails and you'll just have to make sure you stir the sand to keep if from getting compacted. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judy_be Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sand for corydoras I'm setting up a new aquarium for my large herd of albino corydoras. Someone suggested I use a black sand available from Foster Smith. Would you all agree that I should use sand? I wonder, since they are bottom feeders, if sand is not a good idea since they would ingest it. Silly me, but I wonder. Thanks. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1382 - Release Date: 4/16/2008 5:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27228	From: rddelon73	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Ick Issues

Good Morning All! Just before I joined the group, my brother started a tank. Since joining, he has read all my emails and is loving how helpful you guys are !! {Not saying that I'm not ;-)} A few days ago, I noticed some white spots on the fins of the fish ( He has Angelfish, silver dollars, and some sort of small red fish {???}). I told him what I thought it was, and what to do. This morning I talked to him and he was complaining that the spots were bigger and on all the fish, the fins looked 'fuzzy' and I did not know what I was talking about. :-0 To find the answer, I told him that I would post the question for feedback. He is really attached to these fish, and I would hate for him to lose any. Thank you!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27229	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: Ick Issues

It's hard to tell with second hand descriptions and not being able to see the fish directly but Ick is not fuzzy and looks like salt was sprinkled on the fish so he may not have Ick. Tell him to go to http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee or http://www.tinyurl.com/2m83ee if he trusts my TinyURL and that archived page of Pandora's Fish Diseases has lot of pictures so he can better compare what he has. The diagnosis and treatment procedures on that page is very reliable as well. It will take a little while for all of the photos to load since the WayBack Archive servers do not work as fast as other servers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rddelon73 Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick Issues Good Morning All! Just before I joined the group, my brother started a tank. Since joining, he has read all my emails and is loving how helpful you guys are !! {Not saying that I'm not ;-)} A few days ago, I noticed some white spots on the fins of the fish ( He has Angelfish, silver dollars, and some sort of small red fish {???}). I told him what I thought it was, and what to do. This morning I talked to him and he was complaining that the spots were bigger and on all the fish, the fins looked 'fuzzy' and I did not know what I was talking about. :-0 To find the answer, I told him that I would post the question for feedback. He is really attached to these fish, and I would hate for him to lose any. Thank you!!! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1382 - Release Date: 4/16/2008 5:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27230	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

No fish yet. It's only been running for about 2 weeks. No discoloration of the water has occurred. I purposely used spring water to keep the ph a little low. I want to do Crystal Red Shrimp in this one. I've been using the estimative index(Tom Barr's method) of fertilization so changing 50% of the water once a week instead of 2 10% changes like I typically like. Has anyone else used this fertilization method? Kate --- On Wed, 4/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 10:40 PM I'm guessing it's manzanita driftwood since the actual trees/bushes are terrestrial. ;-) http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Manzanita Most driftwoods will release tannins into the water.. which makes the water brownish colored. Tannins have a very low pH and will therefore lower the pH of the tank. You can run fresh carbon or other more advanced chemical filtration like Purigen to help remove the tannins from the water... if you do not have fish that prefer it. Some species like acidic water and thrive in the tannin colored/tainted water. As driftwood gets a lot older in a tank, it slowly deteriorates and this will also cause the pH to lower due to the decaying organic matter releasing carbonic acid and gas into the water. It's a good idea to check it every year or two to make sure it's not suffering from wood rot. You can also do PWC's to remove the tannin tainted water and replace it with "normal" water but you should do smaller 10% PWC's so you do not change the water parameters and pH too much, too fast, as this is not good for fish either. They slowly acclimate to bad or different water parameters so they should be slowly acclimated back to good or different water parameters to avoid osmoregulatory stress or pH shock problems. pH shock can be deadly. What kind of fish do you have? They may be fish that prefer that type of water so the above may not be necessary. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank If I can latch on to this thread. I have a problem low ph in my newest tank that I'd love advice on. The manzanita has made the ph VERY low. Kate Russ Foley <groups@rjkaraoke. co.uk <mailto:groups% 40rjkaraoke. co.uk> > wrote: Hi there, Due to having 50 or so babie guppie babies which will soon have to be moved to another tank. I have started another tank but to be honest I can not get the PH to go down at all. It has been running at least a week or so and I have used PH buffer to try and lower it without luck. Do some sorts of gravel mess with the PH as I can not think what it could be and have got to the point of draining it and changing the gravel and re filling it and starting again. Do any people have any suggestions. Thanks Russ ------------ --------- --------- --- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27231	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank - Kate Konrow

I was given the wood by a member of my local planted aquarium club who said it was Manzanita. It is supposed to be fairly resistant to leaching but I think it does a bit still. I soaked it for about a month before adding it so it would stay down. The tank is very new so I'm sure it's not much to worry about I've just not run into this before. Here's a bit of a run down. Standard 5 gallon aquarium Zoo Med 501 Canister filter Hydor Natural NRG CO2 system Marineland Stealth 25 watt heater Glass thermometer ADA Amazonia II Aquasoil( powder and normal type) White pool sand Volcanic rock Manzanita branch Bolbitis Heudelotii Microsorum sp. Fissidens Fontanus Anubias Coffefolia Anubias Nana petite Hemianthus Callitrichoides This is a link to a pic of the tank. http://a330.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/116/l_ad03d1f8c75969f5f3511e8b95a13681.jpg --- On Wed, 4/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank - Kate Konrow > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 11:25 PM > Ooops! (Yes, even I make a mistake now and then.. lol) > > I was reading that article, that I referenced, a little > more and saw that, > supposedly, Manzanita driftwood is resistant to leaching > tannins into the > water so maybe it's not the driftwood in this case... > of course, it was a > Wikipedia article I cited so it may or may not be accurate. > ;-) > > A snip from the article, "...Some aquarium keepers use > sandblasted manzanita > as driftwood in planted aquaria because of its attractive > forked growth and > its chemical neutrality. If properly cleaned and cured, it > holds up well > over extended periods of submersion. The wood is also > resistant to the > leaching of tannins into the water column, a problem often > found with other > aquarium driftwoods. When used as driftwood, manzanita must > often be either > weighted down for several weeks or soaked first to > counteract the wood's > natural buoyancy...." > > First, I would check to make sure it's Manzanita > driftwood. > > If it definitely is, then give us your tap/source water > baseline test > results and the actual numbers from those tests and your > tank numbers. pH, > GH, KH and the other usual tests would be helpful. My blog > has an article > on establishing your tap water baseline. > > How often are you doing filter maintenance and what are you > doing when you > do filter maintenance? How often are you doing PWC's? > > Tell us more about the entire tank, fish, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:41 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank > > I'm guessing it's manzanita driftwood since the > actual trees/bushes are > terrestrial. ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manzanita > > Most driftwoods will release tannins into the water.. which > makes the water > brownish colored. Tannins have a very low pH and will > therefore lower the > pH of the tank. You can run fresh carbon or other more > advanced chemical > filtration like Purigen to help remove the tannins from the > water... if you > do not have fish that prefer it. Some species like acidic > water and thrive > in the tannin colored/tainted water. As driftwood gets a > lot older in a > tank, it slowly deteriorates and this will also cause the > pH to lower due to > the decaying organic matter releasing carbonic acid and gas > into the water. > It's a good idea to check it every year or two to make > sure it's not > suffering from wood rot. > > You can also do PWC's to remove the tannin tainted > water and replace it with > "normal" water but you should do smaller 10% > PWC's so you do not change the > water parameters and pH too much, too fast, as this is not > good for fish > either. They slowly acclimate to bad or different water > parameters so they > should be slowly acclimated back to good or different water > parameters to > avoid osmoregulatory stress or pH shock problems. pH shock > can be deadly. > > What kind of fish do you have? They may be fish that > prefer that type of > water so the above may not be necessary. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kate Conrow > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank > > If I can latch on to this thread. I have a problem low ph > in my newest tank > that I'd love advice on. The manzanita has made the ph > VERY low. > Kate > > Russ Foley <groups@... > <mailto:groups%40rjkaraoke.co.uk> > > wrote: Hi there, Due to having 50 or so babie guppie babies > which will soon > have to be moved to another tank. I have started another > tank but to be > honest I can not get the PH to go down at all. It has been > running at least > a week or so and I have used PH buffer to try and lower it > without luck. > > Do some sorts of gravel mess with the PH as I can not think > what it could be > and have got to the point of draining it and changing the > gravel and re > filling it and starting again. > > Do any people have any suggestions. > > Thanks > > Russ > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1382 - Release > Date: 4/16/2008 > 5:34 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> > ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. > , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27232	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: test kit?

I recently bought an API Master Freshwater test kit and I've noticed that the bottles say "2006" on the labels in addition to having a lot number....my question is this - Have these bottles expired? I tried to find info on the API site and I wasn't successful. Thanks! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27233	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

I don't think that is entirely true. The way I understand the chemistry, increased population causes increase in Nitrates, but has no impact on pH. Also water changes reduce Nitrates, but only change pH if the pH of your tap water that you are adding is lower than the pH of your tank water. And finally, pH is not related to pollution, but Nitrates are. But we definitely agree on the benefits of bacteria and that it lives in the substrate. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aquaticjoy@... Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank The PH has a lot to due with the increase in population. Water changes help and chemicals to balance the PH. If your tank is overpopulated, it is best to remove fish because levels will continue to be unbalanced and the water is polluted quickly. I like under gravel filters, outside box filters and lots of aeration in my tanks. Using charcoal, plus other substrate for collection of good bacteria helps. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27234	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

Donna, The way an increased bioload affects pH is by the fish using up more of the trace elements in the water and the biological filtration (nitrifying bacteria) utilizing the calcium carbonate (KH increaser) and trace elements so as the ecology of the tank increases, the water has less and less minerals and calcium carbonate to maintain the pH and after the KH gets too low, the pH can actually crash completely which will lead to almost certain death of many of the fish. You are correct that by doing frequent PWC's, we are removing the nitrate build up and replacing the trace elements and minerals used up by the fish, plants and N-bacteria (and any other living things in the tank). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank I don't think that is entirely true. The way I understand the chemistry, increased population causes increase in Nitrates, but has no impact on pH. Also water changes reduce Nitrates, but only change pH if the pH of your tap water that you are adding is lower than the pH of your tank water. And finally, pH is not related to pollution, but Nitrates are. But we definitely agree on the benefits of bacteria and that it lives in the substrate. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of aquaticjoy@... <mailto:aquaticjoy%40aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank The PH has a lot to due with the increase in population. Water changes help and chemicals to balance the PH. If your tank is overpopulated, it is best to remove fish because levels will continue to be unbalanced and the water is polluted quickly. I like under gravel filters, outside box filters and lots of aeration in my tanks. Using charcoal, plus other substrate for collection of good bacteria helps. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1382 - Release Date: 4/16/2008 5:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27235	From: milster_1999	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: Free 250 gallon tank - Campbell, California

Someone local is going to take the tank. Thanks to those who showed an interest.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27236	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: test kit?

Shari, This article explains the expiration dates on API and many other test kits. Yours is still fine as of now but since a test kit lasts for a year or more, you may want to bring it back to the store and see if they have something more current and let them return that one to API. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php I'm not sure how you are coming up with the 2006 date though since my understanding is that the last four digits of the lot number are the month and year so there shouldn't be a 2006 as part of the lot number but API could have changed things so this article may not be accurate any longer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 8:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] test kit? I recently bought an API Master Freshwater test kit and I've noticed that the bottles say "2006" on the labels in addition to having a lot number....my question is this - Have these bottles expired? I tried to find info on the API site and I wasn't successful. Thanks! Shari _ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1382 - Release Date: 4/16/2008 5:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27237	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

This message will be best viewed in HTML so I can bore you properly with a bunch of formulae. These are from Stephen Spotte (1979) who got them from Weber and Stumm (1963) These formulae all relate to chemical reactions that can affect the pH of your water. This is not to say that any or all of these reactions are occurring at a given time, but they do occur. Process Reaction Effect on pH Photosynthesis 6 CO2 + 6 H2O à C6H12O6 + 6O2 increase Respiration C6H12O6 + 6O2 à 6 CO2 + 6 H2O decrease Methane fermentation C6H12O6 + 3 CO2 à 3 CH4 + 6 CO2 decrease Nitrification NH4+ + 2 O2 à NO3 + H2O + 2 H+ decrease Denitrification 5 C6H12O6 + 24 NO3 + 24 H+ à 3 O CO2 + 12 N2 + 42 H2O increase Sulfide oxidation HS- + 2 O2 à SO42- + H+ decrease Sulfide reduction C6H12O6 + 3 SO42- + 3 H+ à 6 CO2 + HS- + 6 H2O increase As you can see, there is much more going on n the aquarium than the nitrogen cycle we talk about so much. Those reactions that are reductive tend to increase pH while those that are oxidative will decrease pH. Oxidation happens more than reduction, so there is a general decline of pH over time. Your water changes will combat this tendency for the pH to go down, but, unless you regularly do massive water changes, greater than 25% per week, the trend will still be downward. This is why it is important to periodically check your pH. You can then determine when some large water changes are needed as your pH tends to be lower. Certainly, there are other factors at work here. Decorative items used in the aquarium can release acids or bases to affect the pH. Waste, be it from fish or plants, left in the aquarium will start to deteriorate, which will then speed up the acidification of your water. Using CO2 to help grow your plants will tend to acidify the water, and this is why many use pH to govern the addition of CO2 to their tanks. And, we have not even entered the discussion of DOC's (Dissolved Organic Carbons). One may wonder why all this happens in our tanks, and not in nature. Well, it does happen in nature. The effects, however, are much less noticeable because of the volume of the water, and other factors that help to negate the effects. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank I don't think that is entirely true. The way I understand the chemistry, increased population causes increase in Nitrates, but has no impact on pH. Also water changes reduce Nitrates, but only change pH if the pH of your tap water that you are adding is lower than the pH of your tank water. And finally, pH is not related to pollution, but Nitrates are. But we definitely agree on the benefits of bacteria and that it lives in the substrate. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aquaticjoy@... Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank The PH has a lot to due with the increase in population. Water changes help and chemicals to balance the PH. If your tank is overpopulated, it is best to remove fish because levels will continue to be unbalanced and the water is polluted quickly. I like under gravel filters, outside box filters and lots of aeration in my tanks. Using charcoal, plus other substrate for collection of good bacteria helps. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27238	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/17/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

Yup, that last message pretty much is done in by plain text. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank This message will be best viewed in HTML so I can bore you properly with a bunch of formulae. These are from Stephen Spotte (1979) who got them from Weber and Stumm (1963) These formulae all relate to chemical reactions that can affect the pH of your water. This is not to say that any or all of these reactions are occurring at a given time, but they do occur. Process Reaction Effect on pH Photosynthesis 6 CO2 + 6 H2O à C6H12O6 + 6O2 increase Respiration C6H12O6 + 6O2 à 6 CO2 + 6 H2O decrease Methane fermentation C6H12O6 + 3 CO2 à 3 CH4 + 6 CO2 decrease Nitrification NH4+ + 2 O2 à NO3 + H2O + 2 H+ decrease Denitrification 5 C6H12O6 + 24 NO3 + 24 H+ à 3 O CO2 + 12 N2 + 42 H2O increase Sulfide oxidation HS- + 2 O2 à SO42- + H+ decrease Sulfide reduction C6H12O6 + 3 SO42- + 3 H+ à 6 CO2 + HS- + 6 H2O increase As you can see, there is much more going on n the aquarium than the nitrogen cycle we talk about so much. Those reactions that are reductive tend to increase pH while those that are oxidative will decrease pH. Oxidation happens more than reduction, so there is a general decline of pH over time. Your water changes will combat this tendency for the pH to go down, but, unless you regularly do massive water changes, greater than 25% per week, the trend will still be downward. This is why it is important to periodically check your pH. You can then determine when some large water changes are needed as your pH tends to be lower. Certainly, there are other factors at work here. Decorative items used in the aquarium can release acids or bases to affect the pH. Waste, be it from fish or plants, left in the aquarium will start to deteriorate, which will then speed up the acidification of your water. Using CO2 to help grow your plants will tend to acidify the water, and this is why many use pH to govern the addition of CO2 to their tanks. And, we have not even entered the discussion of DOC's (Dissolved Organic Carbons). One may wonder why all this happens in our tanks, and not in nature. Well, it does happen in nature. The effects, however, are much less noticeable because of the volume of the water, and other factors that help to negate the effects. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank I don't think that is entirely true. The way I understand the chemistry, increased population causes increase in Nitrates, but has no impact on pH. Also water changes reduce Nitrates, but only change pH if the pH of your tap water that you are adding is lower than the pH of your tank water. And finally, pH is not related to pollution, but Nitrates are. But we definitely agree on the benefits of bacteria and that it lives in the substrate. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aquaticjoy@... Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank The PH has a lot to due with the increase in population. Water changes help and chemicals to balance the PH. If your tank is overpopulated, it is best to remove fish because levels will continue to be unbalanced and the water is polluted quickly. I like under gravel filters, outside box filters and lots of aeration in my tanks. Using charcoal, plus other substrate for collection of good bacteria helps.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27239	From: William J. Scott	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: Free 250 gallon tank - Campbell, California

Thanks for the reply. Good Luck... Bill -------Original Message------- From: milster_1999 Date: 4/17/2008 6:44:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Free 250 gallon tank - Campbell, California Someone local is going to take the tank. Thanks to those who showed an interest. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27240	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

Huh. Well my nitrates go up and down with bioload, but my pH never changes. Weird. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank Donna, The way an increased bioload affects pH is by the fish using up more of the trace elements in the water and the biological filtration (nitrifying bacteria) utilizing the calcium carbonate (KH increaser) and trace elements so as the ecology of the tank increases, the water has less and less minerals and calcium carbonate to maintain the pH and after the KH gets too low, the pH can actually crash completely which will lead to almost certain death of many of the fish. You are correct that by doing frequent PWC's, we are removing the nitrate build up and replacing the trace elements and minerals used up by the fish, plants and N-bacteria (and any other living things in the tank). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank I don't think that is entirely true. The way I understand the chemistry, increased population causes increase in Nitrates, but has no impact on pH. Also water changes reduce Nitrates, but only change pH if the pH of your tap water that you are adding is lower than the pH of your tank water. And finally, pH is not related to pollution, but Nitrates are. But we definitely agree on the benefits of bacteria and that it lives in the substrate. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of aquaticjoy@... <mailto:aquaticjoy%40aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank The PH has a lot to due with the increase in population. Water changes help and chemicals to balance the PH. If your tank is overpopulated, it is best to remove fish because levels will continue to be unbalanced and the water is polluted quickly. I like under gravel filters, outside box filters and lots of aeration in my tanks. Using charcoal, plus other substrate for collection of good bacteria helps. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1382 - Release Date: 4/16/2008 5:34 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

What are your numbers for KH and GH? Tank, prior to a PWC, and source water? What type/brand of pH test kit do you use? You may have very hard water or highly buffered water so the buffers in the water stay at a high enough level between your PWC's that you do not see much change in your pH. I promise you that the ecology of a tank utilizes the trace elements and minerals in the water and eventually, without replenishment, the pH must come down. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank Huh. Well my nitrates go up and down with bioload, but my pH never changes. Weird. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank Donna, The way an increased bioload affects pH is by the fish using up more of the trace elements in the water and the biological filtration (nitrifying bacteria) utilizing the calcium carbonate (KH increaser) and trace elements so as the ecology of the tank increases, the water has less and less minerals and calcium carbonate to maintain the pH and after the KH gets too low, the pH can actually crash completely which will lead to almost certain death of many of the fish. You are correct that by doing frequent PWC's, we are removing the nitrate build up and replacing the trace elements and minerals used up by the fish, plants and N-bacteria (and any other living things in the tank). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank I don't think that is entirely true. The way I understand the chemistry, increased population causes increase in Nitrates, but has no impact on pH. Also water changes reduce Nitrates, but only change pH if the pH of your tap water that you are adding is lower than the pH of your tank water. And finally, pH is not related to pollution, but Nitrates are. But we definitely agree on the benefits of bacteria and that it lives in the substrate. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.1/1384 - Release Date: 4/17/2008 3:47 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27242	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: Ick Issues

Sounds like fungus. Medicate for true body fungus. And check you water quality. You may need to do a water change before you start the treatments. Any on their eyes or lips? Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: rddelon73 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:14 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick Issues Good Morning All! Just before I joined the group, my brother started a tank. Since joining, he has read all my emails and is loving how helpful you guys are !! {Not saying that I'm not ;-)} A few days ago, I noticed some white spots on the fins of the fish ( He has Angelfish, silver dollars, and some sort of small red fish {???}). I told him what I thought it was, and what to do. This morning I talked to him and he was complaining that the spots were bigger and on all the fish, the fins looked 'fuzzy' and I did not know what I was talking about. :-0 To find the answer, I told him that I would post the question for feedback. He is really attached to these fish, and I would hate for him to lose any. Thank you!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1381 - Release Date: 4/16/2008 9:34 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27243	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: bettas new home

Well a couple of weeks ago I brought home my 6 gallon eclipse tank and set it up with a black sand bottom. I have since set it had it run for a week and added my new betta, "Capt'n Phil" to the tank. I also added one fake plant and fake drift wood (when I get a pic, you will understand what I mean by fake, I dont usually like fake stuff, but it was something for him to hide around in). Today I decided to try and hunt down some trumpets as we didnt haveany hiding around in the tanks last week at work. After 2 different pet store stops, i found two little trumpets so they came home with me. I also found a decent sized bumble bee shrimp, so I figures that since it was almost as big as my betta ( he is a pretty small guy), he should do fine with the fake drift wood to hider under, since one is to low to the ground the betta can get under it. I also picked up a couple of live plants, 3 jungle vals which are very pretty, but I plan to add in some more plants, maybe a small sword of sorts, not sure yet, just wanted to give my snails and shrimp something to rummage through and hide in from the betta incase he decides to be a butthead. He also has not ate since I got him, I have been offering him the food my other betta ate (the HBH betta bites and blood worms), so I did manage to find frozen daphina i will try feeding him later, want to let the new tnk mates setting in for now before feeding as I know there is something for them to rummage through at the bottom as i even went so far as to try veggie flakes today even though I know these guys are mainly carnis (I keep the veggie flakes around for the crickets, they like to eat them). Anyways I wanted to post an update, when i pick out some more plants (maybe tomorrow when at work), and i get everything else settled, i will take a pic and post it up for ya'll to see. It really is tuning out to be a pretty little tank. Thanks for the help Lenny! ~Melissa ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27244	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: vacation feeding

I'm going to be out of town for 3 or 4 days. Would it be best to let the fish go unfed or should I use an automatic feeder? I have two tanks, a 20L and 90 gal. I have used the auto feeders in the past when I was gone for a longer time without any problems. I plan on doing PWC on both tanks the day before I leave. Tested water in both tanks today and they both had pH of 7.4, ammonia and nitrite 0, and nitrate 10. Should I do anything else before leaving? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27245	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: vacation feeding

They'll do fine for 3-4 days. NEVER use those feeding blocks that dissolve in the water. They do make some powered auto-feeders and the higher end ones probably would work but it's not really needed for a short period of time. Just throw some anacharis or some other free floating plant, if you have some available, for them to snack on if they get really hungry if you are that worried but I wouldn't worry for that short period of time. The bigger thing to worry about is power outages. Do you have any kind of battery backup systems on your filters? If you lose power for a couple of hours and then the power comes back on, it would pump that very foul water out of the filter reservoir into the tank. After an hour or two, the nitrifying bacteria in your filters start to die off and the water can become toxic so you don't want that going into your tank. I use computer UPS systems on my tanks filter systems which keep them running for over an hour of no power. If you have a neighbor that you trust, you could tell them that in the event of a power failure or more than an hour or two, they should unplug the filters. The fish would be better off for a couple of days in unfiltered water (hopefully at least with air stones or live plants) than they would with that potentially toxic water pumped back into the tank. I just picked up two REALLY BIG UPS' for free on Craigslist that have bad batteries and I'm planning on buying a couple of $25.00 small car batteries to use in them (instead of the $100.00 batteries that APC wants to sell me) and I believe I'll have around 6-8 hours of battery backup on each tank after I get them up and running. This will be valuable in the event of another Hurricane Katrina. I have a blog article on my blog about how I kept all my fish alive during 14 days of no power after Katrina. If something goes wrong and it does happen, do a series of 3-4 25% PWC's, one every couple of hours, which will replace a large percentage of the bad water... or if the fish are showing signs of distress, then a large 90% to 100% water change may be in order. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] vacation feeding I'm going to be out of town for 3 or 4 days. Would it be best to let the fish go unfed or should I use an automatic feeder? I have two tanks, a 20L and 90 gal. I have used the auto feeders in the past when I was gone for a longer time without any problems. I plan on doing PWC on both tanks the day before I leave. Tested water in both tanks today and they both had pH of 7.4, ammonia and nitrite 0, and nitrate 10. Should I do anything else before leaving? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.1/1384 - Release Date: 4/17/2008 3:47 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27246	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: PhProblems New tank

I believe you. KH=7 GH=7 pH=7.8 tap, before and after water change. Weekly 50% water change. API test kits. They are "good" because different tanks register different pH (I raised a quarantine tank recently to acclimate fish kept at 8.2 by prior owner.) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 9:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank What are your numbers for KH and GH? Tank, prior to a PWC, and source water? What type/brand of pH test kit do you use? You may have very hard water or highly buffered water so the buffers in the water stay at a high enough level between your PWC's that you do not see much change in your pH. I promise you that the ecology of a tank utilizes the trace elements and minerals in the water and eventually, without replenishment, the pH must come down. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank Huh. Well my nitrates go up and down with bioload, but my pH never changes. Weird. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank Donna, The way an increased bioload affects pH is by the fish using up more of the trace elements in the water and the biological filtration (nitrifying bacteria) utilizing the calcium carbonate (KH increaser) and trace elements so as the ecology of the tank increases, the water has less and less minerals and calcium carbonate to maintain the pH and after the KH gets too low, the pH can actually crash completely which will lead to almost certain death of many of the fish. You are correct that by doing frequent PWC's, we are removing the nitrate build up and replacing the trace elements and minerals used up by the fish, plants and N-bacteria (and any other living things in the tank). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PhProblems New tank I don't think that is entirely true. The way I understand the chemistry, increased population causes increase in Nitrates, but has no impact on pH. Also water changes reduce Nitrates, but only change pH if the pH of your tap water that you are adding is lower than the pH of your tank water. And finally, pH is not related to pollution, but Nitrates are. But we definitely agree on the benefits of bacteria and that it lives in the substrate. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.1/1384 - Release Date: 4/17/2008 3:47 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27247	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: vacation feeding

What kind of fish? Mouthbrooders can go quite a while without food. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] vacation feeding I'm going to be out of town for 3 or 4 days. Would it be best to let the fish go unfed or should I use an automatic feeder? I have two tanks, a 20L and 90 gal. I have used the auto feeders in the past when I was gone for a longer time without any problems. I plan on doing PWC on both tanks the day before I leave. Tested water in both tanks today and they both had pH of 7.4, ammonia and nitrite 0, and nitrate 10. Should I do anything else before leaving? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27248	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: vacation feeding

Gouramis, corys and Otocinclus. I have a couple of APC's hooked up to my filters in case of a short power failure. The electric company reworked all of our power lines after Katrina and the service has been very good every since. I have two of the better auto-feeders that proved to be reliable in the past, but I have only used them when I was away for a longer time. Unfortunately I don't have any neighbors that could look in on things while I am away. I don't even know anyone else with aquarium experience in Husser.. Thanks for the information and advise. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 7:16:20 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] vacation feeding What kind of fish? Mouthbrooders can go quite a while without food. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] vacation feeding I'm going to be out of town for 3 or 4 days. Would it be best to let the fish go unfed or should I use an automatic feeder? I have two tanks, a 20L and 90 gal. I have used the auto feeders in the past when I was gone for a longer time without any problems. I plan on doing PWC on both tanks the day before I leave. Tested water in both tanks today and they both had pH of 7.4, ammonia and nitrite 0, and nitrate 10. Should I do anything else before leaving? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. <http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ> yahoo.com/;_ ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27249	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: Re: vacation feeding

Gouramis, corys and Otocinclus. I have a couple of APC's hooked up to my filters in case of a short power failure. The electric company reworked all of our power lines after Katrina and the service has been very good every since. I have two of the better auto-feeders that proved to be reliable in the past, but I have only used them when I was away for a longer time. Unfortunately I don't have any neighbors that could look in on things while I am away. I don't even know anyone else with aquarium experience in Husser.. Thanks for the information and advise. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 7:16:20 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] vacation feeding What kind of fish? Mouthbrooders can go quite a while without food. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] vacation feeding I'm going to be out of town for 3 or 4 days. Would it be best to let the fish go unfed or should I use an automatic feeder? I have two tanks, a 20L and 90 gal. I have used the auto feeders in the past when I was gone for a longer time without any problems. I plan on doing PWC on both tanks the day before I leave. Tested water in both tanks today and they both had pH of 7.4, ammonia and nitrite 0, and nitrate 10. Should I do anything else before leaving? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. <http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ> yahoo.com/;_ ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27250	From: Melissa	Date: 4/18/2008
Subject: BioCubes

A friend of mine last month bought a 14 gallon bio cube, although she has not set it up yet. She asked me to ask you guys one question as I asked her if she did any research on the protien skimmer made by biocube for their tanks, she said no, so i asked her if she wanted me to post on here for some info on it and she said yes (which btw she hasnt bought the skimmer yet, just ordered it in). So does anyone know if this brand is worth buying? Also I know these tanks are supposed to be able to run as is with just adding the skimmer (or the box allows you to assume that), is there anything you would advise her to get to go along with her setup? Right now she has a marineland heater and crushed coral, and thats pretty much it. I am not sure what she plans on doing in there, I know the species could make a difference on what she should do. Do you have any suggestions she should do? This will be her first marine tank. Thanks! ~Melissa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27251	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Re: vacation feeding

I put this aside to reply to last night, but never did get to it. Well fed fish in well maintained aquaria can go 14 days without fresh food being introduced. For your short sojourn, you should be just fine, and come home to a tank of hungry fish. The water change before leaving is a very good plan, though, I fear, most people simply do not get to it before they leave, and I do plead guilty on this count myself upon occasion. If you are going for more than a few days, it would be worth your while to have a trusted person come in and check on your fish every few days, just to ensure that the tank is OK, the filter is still working, etc. You do not need to have them feed, just check, and give you a call about any problems noticed ("Dude, did you want to know that there is water all over the floor and not in the tank? Did you want me to do something about it, or just leave it until you get home?") \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] vacation feeding I'm going to be out of town for 3 or 4 days. Would it be best to let the fish go unfed or should I use an automatic feeder? I have two tanks, a 20L and 90 gal. I have used the auto feeders in the past when I was gone for a longer time without any problems. I plan on doing PWC on both tanks the day before I leave. Tested water in both tanks today and they both had pH of 7.4, ammonia and nitrite 0, and nitrate 10. Should I do anything else before leaving? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27252	From: rob_white18	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: FILTER

I HAVE A 35 GALLON TANK AND THINKING OF CHANGING MY FILTER TO A ENHEIM CLASSIC 2213 DO YOU ALL THINK THIS IS A WORTHY INVESTMENT THANKS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27253	From: Noun	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Amazon Plant

Hi I planted my 3 amazons a couple of months ago in my 20 g tank. As they were too tall and reaching out of the water , I cut the old leaves as soon as the plants grew new ones. Now each plant has about 20 leaves, but the problem is that they're not reaching up, they're spreading themselves horizontally. I don't know if it's the lightning, I light the tank about 12 hours aday. Another thing, all the old leaves in the buttom are being gauzy. Is this normal? Btw, I'm no expert in fish keeping, any detailed advise is welcome. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Re: FILTER

What do you have now? What kind of fish and how many do you have in the 35G? Is your tank a long tank or tall tank? What are the dimensions? Eheim's have a very good reputation as being quality products but I found them to be overpriced compared to other quality products that were available when I was shopping for canister filters for my tanks a couple of years ago. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rob_white18 Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 9:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] FILTER I HAVE A 35 GALLON TANK AND THINKING OF CHANGING MY FILTER TO A ENHEIM CLASSIC 2213 DO YOU ALL THINK THIS IS A WORTHY INVESTMENT THANKS No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1386 - Release Date: 4/18/2008 5:24 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27255	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: moss? algae?

I planted the "hard to Kill" selection from aquabotanics and in it there is some java moss. I have a feathery type moss/algae growing on all of the broad leaf plants in the aquarium also. When I do my PWC's I scrape it off the plants because I don't like it. My question - is this also some of the java moss and is this typical of that plant if that's what it is? Thanks! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27256	From: Noun	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Calculating the size

Hi everyone I'm not familiar with the "Gallon" method for measuring the size of the tank, as I live in Asia. I thought that maybe you can help me know the size of my tank in Gallons. it's 80 liters.. how many Gallons is that? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27257	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Re: moss? algae?

It is hard to say from your description what it may be, but it is not likely to be java moss. You should be able to tell by comparing it with the java moss you have from the collection. I would first off suspect hair algae, but a better descript would help. What is the color? Does it branch? Is it growing out of a bed, so to speak, of material the same color that may appear like a tight fuzz.? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] moss? algae? I planted the "hard to Kill" selection from aquabotanics and in it there is some java moss. I have a feathery type moss/algae growing on all of the broad leaf plants in the aquarium also. When I do my PWC's I scrape it off the plants because I don't like it. My question - is this also some of the java moss and is this typical of that plant if that's what it is? Thanks! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27258	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Re: Calculating the size

Visit http://www.onlineconversion.com and let it do the work for you. In your case, 80 liter = 21.133 764 189 gallon [US, liquid], which we would be calling a 20 gallon tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noun Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 8:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Calculating the size Hi everyone I'm not familiar with the "Gallon" method for measuring the size of the tank, as I live in Asia. I thought that maybe you can help me know the size of my tank in Gallons. it's 80 liters.. how many Gallons is that? Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27259	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Re: Calculating the size

21 us gallons Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Noun To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 7:05 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Calculating the size Hi everyone I'm not familiar with the "Gallon" method for measuring the size of the tank, as I live in Asia. I thought that maybe you can help me know the size of my tank in Gallons. it's 80 liters.. how many Gallons is that? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27260	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

I'm setting up a 10 gallon aquarium. I previously had swordtails many years ago and wasn't very successful. Planning to put tetras and pygmy corydoras. Live in central Texas. Room temperature usually between 70 and 80. Do I need a heater? Do I actually need minimum of five pygmy corydoras? If I'm thinking of some combination of neon, cardinal, black neon and glowlight tetras, and pygmy corydoras, I can have how many in a 10 gallon tank? If I can have 12 fish in a 10 gallon tank and 5 of them must be pygmy corydoras, and the others will all be tetras, what is the minimum number of each kind of tetra that I can have? Do I need a test kit for nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia or only for Ph? What do I actually do if the ph is off? How many live plants do I want to put in a 10 gallon tank? Both tetras and corydoras like cover. I ordered maybe a dozen plastic plants, none of which are much on cover. Ordered a tetra whisper power filter. 20 Economy. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753026 It says it comes with a bio-bag filter cartridge, and the bigger models also include free samples of bio-foam and water conditioner. I ordered some water conditioner. Do I also need to order bio-foam? Should I use a tank maturing agent? How good an idea is it to run the tank for a week or two before I put in any fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/19/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

If your room temp fluctuates that much per day, it would be best to have a heater keeping it at 78-80 all the time for tropical fish. Mongabay profiles are one of the most accurate and detailed out there and like most corys, they like to be in shoals of five or more. Here's the Mongabay profile for more info. Read all the reference links at the bottom also. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras_pygmaeus.html Since they only grow to around an inch, you could have five of them and a school of 5-6 neon tetras and if you go with some live plants to help the overall ecology of the tank, you shouldn't have any overstocking problems. For more ideas about 10G tank stocking, go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side in the labels section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions which will give you lots of other ideas you might want to consider. While at my blog, go to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and take one or both of the free online tutorials which will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping which will answer most of your questions below and give you a few more. Come back here and ask away. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning" which will answer your questions about your filter cartridges. It would be a good idea to start fishless cycling your tank now.. see link in the A to Z page.. while you are learning all of the other basics of fish keeping and that way, you won't have to worry about the hazards to the fish caused by cycling with fish. Running the tank for a week or two does nothing to get it ready for fish. Fishless Cycling for a few weeks will get it ready for fish. When you see the word Cycle or Cycling in fish keeping, it refers to "The Nitrogen Cycle" where you need to grow a healthy colony of nitrifying bacteria which will consume the ammonia and nitrite turning them into much less harmful nitrate and nitrate is kept in check with your regular weekly or bi-weekly 25% PWC's... depending on the bioload and ecology of the individual tank. You don't need a maturing agent.. whatever that is. lol You don't need to fool with your pH and avoid ALL chemicals that your fish store might try to sell you except for the basic dechlor product to make your tap water safe for the fish. Also do a Tap Water Baseline Test... see my blog article on that.. so you'll know what your tap water really is going to be like for your fish. Post your numbers here and we'll help you decipher them. These pages have easy and very easy to keep live plants so you could look around to see what's available. You won't need any special lighting or CO2 for these types of plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions I'm setting up a 10 gallon aquarium. I previously had swordtails many years ago and wasn't very successful. Planning to put tetras and pygmy corydoras. Live in central Texas. Room temperature usually between 70 and 80. Do I need a heater? Do I actually need minimum of five pygmy corydoras? If I'm thinking of some combination of neon, cardinal, black neon and glowlight tetras, and pygmy corydoras, I can have how many in a 10 gallon tank? If I can have 12 fish in a 10 gallon tank and 5 of them must be pygmy corydoras, and the others will all be tetras, what is the minimum number of each kind of tetra that I can have? Do I need a test kit for nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia or only for Ph? What do I actually do if the ph is off? How many live plants do I want to put in a 10 gallon tank? Both tetras and corydoras like cover. I ordered maybe a dozen plastic plants, none of which are much on cover. Ordered a tetra whisper power filter. 20 Economy. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753026 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753026> It says it comes with a bio-bag filter cartridge, and the bigger models also include free samples of bio-foam and water conditioner. I ordered some water conditioner. Do I also need to order bio-foam? Should I use a tank maturing agent? How good an idea is it to run the tank for a week or two before I put in any fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27262	From: Noun	Date: 4/20/2008
Subject: Re: Calculating the size

Thanks for leading me to that nice tool. I had to add that I'm not that good in internet surfing either! ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:45 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Calculating the size Visit http://www.onlineconversion.com and let it do the work for you. In your case, 80 liter = 21.133 764 189 gallon [US, liquid], which we would be calling a 20 gallon tank. \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27263	From: lrglbrth	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: trouble with my black molly

I have a 30 gallon tank with live plants, this evening my Black Molly started to not swim around as much and sort of sit on one of the plants and her head is always above her tail and when she does swim it is also with her head above her tail not quite veritcal but close to it she also seems to be breathing faster than normal. My husband does weekly or every other week PWC's the tank parameters are (with the tetra Easy strips 5 in 1) Nitrate= 0, Nitrite= 0, the hardness has three ratings and they are in this order: soft, hard and 180,KH= 100 and the pH is 7.2. None of the other fish are behaving out of their norm. Also this fish about 8 months ago had reoccuring ICK that we had to treat 3 times because it kept coming back. Does anyone have any thoughts about what is going on with her and/or any treatments that may save her? Thanks for your time

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27264	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: trouble with my black molly

Do you have an ammonia test kit? The first thing I noticed is you have 0.0 for nitrates which is highly unusual and usually means the nitrogen cycle (ammonia>nitrite>nitrate) on the tank has been disrupted. Did he change out the filter cartridge completely? Did you all add any kinds of medications that might have killed the nitrifying bacteria? Did he forget to use a dechlor on the water during the last PWC? When things start to go wrong, a fish that might have a weaker immune system will be first to start showing signs of stress so oftentimes when one fish is affected, it could be that the fish is the weakest of the group... relative to it's immune system.... which could also be indicated by the recurring ick problem with just this one fish. I would remove it to a Q-tank since a sick fish will get stressed out even more knowing that it's tank mates look at it with hungry eyes... it's just Darwin's Survival Of The Fittest at one of it's less fitting moments. Swimming issues like that are often times caused by swim bladder disorders which can be caused by something as simple as constipation... try feeding it green pea "meat" (pinch the pea to get the "meat" and discard the skin)... or it could be on the other end of the spectrum and be internal bacterial issues causing bloating of one of the nearby organs or the actual swim bladder which is then causing swim bladder issues. You could also try a simple salt treatment in the Q-tank so the plants won't be affected by the higher salinity level... http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml and http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Kebus_Salt_Treatments.html If those do not work, then a broad spectrum antibiotic would be my next line of defense. The only time I've ever had a similar problem to yours was on some adopted/rescued fish that I took in a few years ago and the albino buenos aires tetras all did that same type of swimming prior to them passing on one by one over the course of several months. Nothing I tried seemed to bring them back to health once they got like that. All of these fish had weakened immune systems from living over two years in a severely overstocked 10G tank that had over 100G of fish in it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lrglbrth Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] trouble with my black molly I have a 30 gallon tank with live plants, this evening my Black Molly started to not swim around as much and sort of sit on one of the plants and her head is always above her tail and when she does swim it is also with her head above her tail not quite veritcal but close to it she also seems to be breathing faster than normal. My husband does weekly or every other week PWC's the tank parameters are (with the tetra Easy strips 5 in 1) Nitrate= 0, Nitrite= 0, the hardness has three ratings and they are in this order: soft, hard and 180,KH= 100 and the pH is 7.2. None of the other fish are behaving out of their norm. Also this fish about 8 months ago had reoccuring ICK that we had to treat 3 times because it kept coming back. Does anyone have any thoughts about what is going on with her and/or any treatments that may save her? Thanks for your time No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27265	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: still having a snail problem

I need more help please. I still have so many snails in my 55 gallon tank. I've tried the zucchini, romaine lettuce. I vacuum out the itty bitty ones and get the ones off the sides that come out at night. Still they keep showing up. I thought about sifting the gravel and trying to get them out that way but don't want to lose my good bacteria. I've also added salt. Not too much though. Just 3 tbs over a weeks time. Anything else I can try? All constructive advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks... Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem

Vacuuming your gravel good will not hurt your good bacteria... but it might suck up some bad ones growing in the detritus or mulm. The good bacteria are microscopic and live on the surface areas of the gravel itself and on all of the surface areas and on each little strand of fiber in your filters. If all that water flowing over them in your filters doesn't knock them loose, then your gravel vacuum won't do it either. In fact, all that extra detritus in your gravel is what is feeding them. Vacuum up all the detritus and the snails will quit multiplying since they only multiply based on the available food. That's an old myth about not vacuuming gravel too much that I see on the internet and in some older books. I vacuum mine till there's no more detritus coming up into the tube and then I move the tube over to the next spot until I've done half my tank. I do half each week since I have two separate Plexiglas lids on my 65G so I move everything to one side and alternate sides each week. Now, cleaning the filters should be done with more care so you don't kill the N-bacteria since that is where the overwhelming majority of your N-bacteria live... since that's where all the ammonia (in the water) gets filtered through several times an hour. It's like a reverse drive-thru where they sit still and the food comes driving by. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem I need more help please. I still have so many snails in my 55 gallon tank. I've tried the zucchini, romaine lettuce. I vacuum out the itty bitty ones and get the ones off the sides that come out at night. Still they keep showing up. I thought about sifting the gravel and trying to get them out that way but don't want to lose my good bacteria. I've also added salt. Not too much though. Just 3 tbs over a weeks time. Anything else I can try? All constructive advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks... Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27267	From: Noun	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Amazon Plant

Hello Noone replied to this message. So here it is again. Hope someone can help here. Hi I planted my 3 amazons a couple of months ago in my 20 g tank. As they were too tall and reaching out of the water , I cut the old leaves as soon as the plants grew new ones. Now each plant has about 20 leaves, but the problem is that they're not reaching up, they're spreading themselves horizontally. I don't know if it's the lightning, I light the tank about 12 hours aday. I used fertilizers only once (pills planted near the roots). Another thing, all the old leaves in the buttom are being gauzy. Is this normal? Btw, I'm no expert in fish keeping, any detailed advise is welcome. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27268	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: Amazon Plant

It sounds to me like inadequate lighting. A standard canopy doesn't produce enough quality light to support plants that have high lighting needs. Increasing the length the light it on won't help, only increasing the intensity, which would mean a new fixture... Carmen On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Noun <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > > > Hello > Noone replied to this message. So here it is again. Hope someone can help > here. > > Hi > I planted my 3 amazons a couple of months ago in my 20 g tank. > As they were too tall and reaching out of the water , I cut the old leaves > as soon as the plants grew new ones. > Now each plant has about 20 leaves, but the problem is that they're not > reaching up, they're spreading themselves horizontally. I don't know if it's > the lightning, I light the tank about 12 hours aday. I used fertilizers only > once (pills planted near the roots). > Another thing, all the old leaves in the buttom are being gauzy. Is this > normal? > Btw, I'm no expert in fish keeping, any detailed advise is welcome. > > Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27269	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: Amazon Plant

Not knowing more about your tank, I think Carmen's initial assessment is probably on point. What are the dimensions of the 20G? There are 20G's that are much deeper than a 10G or 20G long and those taller tanks need much higher lighting capacity so the light will get down to the bottom of the tank. Give us your water parameter test results also... temp, pH, GH, KH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and any others you may have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amazon Plant It sounds to me like inadequate lighting. A standard canopy doesn't produce enough quality light to support plants that have high lighting needs. Increasing the length the light it on won't help, only increasing the intensity, which would mean a new fixture... Carmen On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Noun <n-taweel@... <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > wrote: > > > > > Hello > Noone replied to this message. So here it is again. Hope someone can > help here. > > Hi > I planted my 3 amazons a couple of months ago in my 20 g tank. > As they were too tall and reaching out of the water , I cut the old > leaves as soon as the plants grew new ones. > Now each plant has about 20 leaves, but the problem is that they're > not reaching up, they're spreading themselves horizontally. I don't > know if it's the lightning, I light the tank about 12 hours aday. I > used fertilizers only once (pills planted near the roots). > Another thing, all the old leaves in the buttom are being gauzy. Is > this normal? > Btw, I'm no expert in fish keeping, any detailed advise is welcome. > > Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27270	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem

Hmmmm, maybe try a less invasive snail to out compete the ones you have. Maybe Nerite snails. Kate --- On Mon, 4/21/08, Swatek-Rice, Traci <t-swatek@...> wrote: From: Swatek-Rice, Traci <t-swatek@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 21, 2008, 11:11 AM I need more help please. I still have so many snails in my 55 gallon tank. I've tried the zucchini, romaine lettuce. I vacuum out the itty bitty ones and get the ones off the sides that come out at night. Still they keep showing up. I thought about sifting the gravel and trying to get them out that way but don't want to lose my good bacteria. I've also added salt. Not too much though. Just 3 tbs over a weeks time. Anything else I can try? All constructive advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks... Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27271	From: Gregg	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem

My favorite way to get rid of snails is to buy a few Pecostomus cats or Clown Loaches. They love them! You'll end up with few or no snails and some very well fed fish. Some of the digging loaches like the Kuhli Loach are good for going after the ones in the gravel. -- Gregg Bender www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27272	From: dtrc rc	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem

goldfish eat them and get rid of them real fast however they have to be able to fit in its mouth "Swatek-Rice, Traci" <t-swatek@...> wrote: I need more help please. I still have so many snails in my 55 gallon tank. I've tried the zucchini, romaine lettuce. I vacuum out the itty bitty ones and get the ones off the sides that come out at night. Still they keep showing up. I thought about sifting the gravel and trying to get them out that way but don't want to lose my good bacteria. I've also added salt. Not too much though. Just 3 tbs over a weeks time. Anything else I can try? All constructive advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks... Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27273	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem

Gregg, If you mean Plecostomus, my experience has been different. They only time they are any good with snails is if they eat them while they are very very small. When they have a hard shell they are too difficult for an algae eater to crack. Especially the Malaysian Trumpet snail. -Mike In a message dated 4/21/2008 12:26:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, greggb57@... writes: Pecostomus cats or Clown Loaches. They love them! You'll end up with few or no snails and **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27274	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem

Lenny, I do vacuum the gravel a lot. I do PWC's every 3-4 days. Usually only 8-10 gallons. I use the water on my plants. I actually meant taking the gravel out and using a colander under water to wash out all the snails. I guess I may be overfeeding some but the fish always act like they are starving. Do you think rinsing would take too much of the good stuff out? Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Vacuuming your gravel good will not hurt your good bacteria... but it might suck up some bad ones growing in the detritus or mulm. The good bacteria are microscopic and live on the surface areas of the gravel itself and on all of the surface areas and on each little strand of fiber in your filters. If all that water flowing over them in your filters doesn't knock them loose, then your gravel vacuum won't do it either. In fact, all that extra detritus in your gravel is what is feeding them. Vacuum up all the detritus and the snails will quit multiplying since they only multiply based on the available food. That's an old myth about not vacuuming gravel too much that I see on the internet and in some older books. I vacuum mine till there's no more detritus coming up into the tube and then I move the tube over to the next spot until I've done half my tank. I do half each week since I have two separate Plexiglas lids on my 65G so I move everything to one side and alternate sides each week. Now, cleaning the filters should be done with more care so you don't kill the N-bacteria since that is where the overwhelming majority of your N-bacteria live... since that's where all the ammonia (in the water) gets filtered through several times an hour. It's like a reverse drive-thru where they sit still and the food comes driving by. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem I need more help please. I still have so many snails in my 55 gallon tank. I've tried the zucchini, romaine lettuce. I vacuum out the itty bitty ones and get the ones off the sides that come out at night. Still they keep showing up. I thought about sifting the gravel and trying to get them out that way but don't want to lose my good bacteria. I've also added salt. Not too much though. Just 3 tbs over a weeks time. Anything else I can try? All constructive advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks... Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Z`·.¸¸.><((((s>.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸><((((s> ¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..><((((s> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <s((((><.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸<s((((><¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..<s((((><·´Z`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27275	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem

Gregg, I thought hard about getting a clown loach but my tank is pretty small for one. They are cool looking fish and if I could find a home to take it afterwards I'd do it in a heart beat. I thought about my dwarf puffer but he is really aggressive. I know he'd terrorize the other fish. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Gregg Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 2:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: still having a snail problem My favorite way to get rid of snails is to buy a few Pecostomus cats or Clown Loaches. They love them! You'll end up with few or no snails and some very well fed fish. Some of the digging loaches like the Kuhli Loach are good for going after the ones in the gravel. -- Gregg Bender www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27276	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem

Kate, I haven't heard of nerite snails. I had a mystery snail in my tank but it crawled out and I didn't find it until too late. The tank is acrylic and has two holes cut out for the filters but I haven't had any luck sealing them. I'll see about the nerite snails. Thanks, Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Kate Conrow Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Hmmmm, maybe try a less invasive snail to out compete the ones you have. Maybe Nerite snails. Kate --- On Mon, 4/21/08, Swatek-Rice, Traci <t-swatek@... <mailto:t-swatek%40ti.com> > wrote: From: Swatek-Rice, Traci <t-swatek@... <mailto:t-swatek%40ti.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, April 21, 2008, 11:11 AM I need more help please. I still have so many snails in my 55 gallon tank. I've tried the zucchini, romaine lettuce. I vacuum out the itty bitty ones and get the ones off the sides that come out at night. Still they keep showing up. I thought about sifting the gravel and trying to get them out that way but don't want to lose my good bacteria. I've also added salt. Not too much though. Just 3 tbs over a weeks time. Anything else I can try? All constructive advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks... Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27277	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: snails

Wow, I have had a lot of suggestions for the snail problem so far. I want to thank everyone this way otherwise I'll overload the list. Thanks again for the help. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27278	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem

You definitely do not want to take the gravel out to rinse it. That would make a total mess of your tank. No matter how good you vacuum the gravel, there is still a lot of detritus in there. I've cloned tanks before (smaller to larger) and moving the gravel is the last thing I do so when I start scooping up the old gravel and putting it in a colander, all the detritus stays in the old tank but still when I lower the colander into the new tank, there is still a slight cloud of detritus. Since your snails are multiplying like crazy, they are eating something so you may want to cut back on feedings a little until the snail problem slows down. What other fish do you have in your tank? Depending on your stocking levels, etc., maybe one of your local fish stores will "loan" you a shoal of juvenile kuhli, yoyo or clown loaches.. or whatever loach species they may have... for a few months or you could buy them with the plan that they will let you trade them back in a few months for store credit. Loaches need to be kept in shoals of at least three or more and prefer even higher numbers so depending on what you have or plan to have, they'll become a big part of your bioload if you decide to keep them. Do NOT go with clown loaches if you plan to keep them as they get much too large for a 55G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Lenny, I do vacuum the gravel a lot. I do PWC's every 3-4 days. Usually only 8-10 gallons. I use the water on my plants. I actually meant taking the gravel out and using a colander under water to wash out all the snails. I guess I may be overfeeding some but the fish always act like they are starving. Do you think rinsing would take too much of the good stuff out? Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Vacuuming your gravel good will not hurt your good bacteria... but it might suck up some bad ones growing in the detritus or mulm. The good bacteria are microscopic and live on the surface areas of the gravel itself and on all of the surface areas and on each little strand of fiber in your filters. If all that water flowing over them in your filters doesn't knock them loose, then your gravel vacuum won't do it either. In fact, all that extra detritus in your gravel is what is feeding them. Vacuum up all the detritus and the snails will quit multiplying since they only multiply based on the available food. That's an old myth about not vacuuming gravel too much that I see on the internet and in some older books. I vacuum mine till there's no more detritus coming up into the tube and then I move the tube over to the next spot until I've done half my tank. I do half each week since I have two separate Plexiglas lids on my 65G so I move everything to one side and alternate sides each week. Now, cleaning the filters should be done with more care so you don't kill the N-bacteria since that is where the overwhelming majority of your N-bacteria live... since that's where all the ammonia (in the water) gets filtered through several times an hour. It's like a reverse drive-thru where they sit still and the food comes driving by. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem I need more help please. I still have so many snails in my 55 gallon tank. I've tried the zucchini, romaine lettuce. I vacuum out the itty bitty ones and get the ones off the sides that come out at night. Still they keep showing up. I thought about sifting the gravel and trying to get them out that way but don't want to lose my good bacteria. I've also added salt. Not too much though. Just 3 tbs over a weeks time. Anything else I can try? All constructive advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks... Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27279	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem

A piece of glass or plexiglass and some aquarium silicone will seal the overflow holes... at least to prevent pet snail escapees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 3:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Kate, I haven't heard of nerite snails. I had a mystery snail in my tank but it crawled out and I didn't find it until too late. The tank is acrylic and has two holes cut out for the filters but I haven't had any luck sealing them. I'll see about the nerite snails. Thanks, Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Kate Conrow Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Hmmmm, maybe try a less invasive snail to out compete the ones you have. Maybe Nerite snails. Kate --- On Mon, 4/21/08, Swatek-Rice, Traci <t-swatek@... <mailto:t-swatek%40ti.com> <mailto:t-swatek%40ti.com> > wrote: From: Swatek-Rice, Traci <t-swatek@... <mailto:t-swatek%40ti.com> <mailto:t-swatek%40ti.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, April 21, 2008, 11:11 AM I need more help please. I still have so many snails in my 55 gallon tank. I've tried the zucchini, romaine lettuce. I vacuum out the itty bitty ones and get the ones off the sides that come out at night. Still they keep showing up. I thought about sifting the gravel and trying to get them out that way but don't want to lose my good bacteria. I've also added salt. Not too much though. Just 3 tbs over a weeks time. Anything else I can try? All constructive advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks... Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27280	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Results of query to the company: Hello, It actually hasn't been distributed to stores here in the US yet. That is scheduled for distribution the week of May 19th. Thank you, United Pet Group -----Original Message----- From: tiggernut24@... [mailto:tiggernut24@...] Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:14 PM To: US Consumer Support Subject: TW -- General Contact Us Request A Contact Us email has been sent from the Tetra Site. Here is the information. Email: tiggernut24@... Message: Looking for who in the U.S. sells safestart online. Finding plenty in UK. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27281	From: mathhaven	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: 29 Gallon Community Tank

About two months ago, I moved my daughter's tetras (3 serpae & 4 diamond) from an overcrowded 10 gallon to a used 29 gallon I bought. The transition went well, and our three dwarf frogs are enjoying the old ten gallon. Last month I got her four cherry barbs, and they've fit in quite nicely, and get along well with the tetras. I'm considering getting her some mollies (2 females and a male), but I have some questions first... 1. Nearly all my research says that mollies and tetras are compatible, but it also says that mollies like some salt, and tetras do not like any. It seems like either could tolerate the other's salinity, but would be stressed by doing so. If anyone keeps these two together, how much salt per gallon do you add? 2. So far, all our fish seem happy and compatible. Feeding time is a frenzy, but a peaceful one. My research has also led me to believe that I should have six of each type (which would overstock the 29 gallon even without any tetras). The serpaes sometimes swim with the diamonds, sometimes just on their own (the cherry barbs usually just do their own thing). Am I stressing them by not having a full school of each? Are there certain behaviors I should look for before making any more stocking decisions? I'm not in any particular rush. Thanks for any advise. - Chris

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27282	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

Hi Chris, Didn't we go over this recently.. in the past several weeks? It sure seems familiar. Maybe you missed the replies due to spam filtering or something or maybe I'm just morphing it into another fish keepers questions. If so, I apologize, I just didn't want to start all over if there is a pre-existing thread about your situation. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mathhaven Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank About two months ago, I moved my daughter's tetras (3 serpae & 4 diamond) from an overcrowded 10 gallon to a used 29 gallon I bought. The transition went well, and our three dwarf frogs are enjoying the old ten gallon. Last month I got her four cherry barbs, and they've fit in quite nicely, and get along well with the tetras. I'm considering getting her some mollies (2 females and a male), but I have some questions first... 1. Nearly all my research says that mollies and tetras are compatible, but it also says that mollies like some salt, and tetras do not like any. It seems like either could tolerate the other's salinity, but would be stressed by doing so. If anyone keeps these two together, how much salt per gallon do you add? 2. So far, all our fish seem happy and compatible. Feeding time is a frenzy, but a peaceful one. My research has also led me to believe that I should have six of each type (which would overstock the 29 gallon even without any tetras). The serpaes sometimes swim with the diamonds, sometimes just on their own (the cherry barbs usually just do their own thing). Am I stressing them by not having a full school of each? Are there certain behaviors I should look for before making any more stocking decisions? I'm not in any particular rush. Thanks for any advise. - Chris No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27283	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

This is supposed to be the newly formulated Bio-Spira that is now going to be sold as an off the shelf product. I won't waste my money on it any time soon since I don't really like Tetra products all that much anyhow due to some of the things they promote. I'll wait to see what others say when they try it but I have a feeling it's not going to be any better than any of the other off-the-shelf so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle products. The science simply doesn't support the ability of nitrifying bacteria to be able to live in a bottle on a shelf... without a source of ammonia and oxygen. I think that if it really was going to work as good as the original Bio-Spira, Marineland would have kept the name and benefitted from the good public awareness about Bio-Spira but instead they sold the distribution rights to Tetra and changed the name. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Results of query to the company: Hello, It actually hasn't been distributed to stores here in the US yet. That is scheduled for distribution the week of May 19th. Thank you, United Pet Group -----Original Message----- From: tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> [mailto:tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ] Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:14 PM To: US Consumer Support Subject: TW -- General Contact Us Request A Contact Us email has been sent from the Tetra Site. Here is the information. Email: tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> Message: Looking for who in the U.S. sells safestart online. Finding plenty in UK. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27284	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem

Lenny, I have 3 remaining cories, 14 mollies, 3 ottos, a male beta and female beta. I also have 2 juvenile angel fish. I have a lady coming Wed to take 9 mollies. Her tank has finally cycled. Yeah! Can the snails travel on the mollies? I just thought about that... I went to Petsmart today and got a clown loach. They say I can bring it back but I won't get credit for it. It will have to go in quarantine when it goes back. I only got one. Mongabay said sometimes they'll team up with cories. Maybe I should get two more. In for a penny in for a pound. I just want the snails gone without having to resort to chemicals. I'll be patient. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 8:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem You definitely do not want to take the gravel out to rinse it. That would make a total mess of your tank. No matter how good you vacuum the gravel, there is still a lot of detritus in there. I've cloned tanks before (smaller to larger) and moving the gravel is the last thing I do so when I start scooping up the old gravel and putting it in a colander, all the detritus stays in the old tank but still when I lower the colander into the new tank, there is still a slight cloud of detritus. Since your snails are multiplying like crazy, they are eating something so you may want to cut back on feedings a little until the snail problem slows down. What other fish do you have in your tank? Depending on your stocking levels, etc., maybe one of your local fish stores will "loan" you a shoal of juvenile kuhli, yoyo or clown loaches.. or whatever loach species they may have... for a few months or you could buy them with the plan that they will let you trade them back in a few months for store credit. Loaches need to be kept in shoals of at least three or more and prefer even higher numbers so depending on what you have or plan to have, they'll become a big part of your bioload if you decide to keep them. Do NOT go with clown loaches if you plan to keep them as they get much too large for a 55G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Lenny, I do vacuum the gravel a lot. I do PWC's every 3-4 days. Usually only 8-10 gallons. I use the water on my plants. I actually meant taking the gravel out and using a colander under water to wash out all the snails. I guess I may be overfeeding some but the fish always act like they are starving. Do you think rinsing would take too much of the good stuff out? Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Vacuuming your gravel good will not hurt your good bacteria... but it might suck up some bad ones growing in the detritus or mulm. The good bacteria are microscopic and live on the surface areas of the gravel itself and on all of the surface areas and on each little strand of fiber in your filters. If all that water flowing over them in your filters doesn't knock them loose, then your gravel vacuum won't do it either. In fact, all that extra detritus in your gravel is what is feeding them. Vacuum up all the detritus and the snails will quit multiplying since they only multiply based on the available food. That's an old myth about not vacuuming gravel too much that I see on the internet and in some older books. I vacuum mine till there's no more detritus coming up into the tube and then I move the tube over to the next spot until I've done half my tank. I do half each week since I have two separate Plexiglas lids on my 65G so I move everything to one side and alternate sides each week. Now, cleaning the filters should be done with more care so you don't kill the N-bacteria since that is where the overwhelming majority of your N-bacteria live... since that's where all the ammonia (in the water) gets filtered through several times an hour. It's like a reverse drive-thru where they sit still and the food comes driving by. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem I need more help please. I still have so many snails in my 55 gallon tank. I've tried the zucchini, romaine lettuce. I vacuum out the itty bitty ones and get the ones off the sides that come out at night. Still they keep showing up. I thought about sifting the gravel and trying to get them out that way but don't want to lose my good bacteria. I've also added salt. Not too much though. Just 3 tbs over a weeks time. Anything else I can try? All constructive advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks... Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Z`·.¸¸.><((((s>.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸><((((s> ¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..><((((s> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <s((((><.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸<s((((><¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..<s((((><·´Z`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27285	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Re: still having a snail problem

I don't think snails will travel unless one of the mollies held still long enough for a snail to crawl on it and lay eggs.... not likely. They usually travel on plants since many snails lay their eggs on plants. If you are only keeping the loach for a short time, it will probably be OK without being in a shoal but maybe another member has better info on this. I've never had a major snail problem... I don't mind having a few... so I've never had to consider getting a loach. So PetsMart sold you the loach... hopefully not too costly... and will take it back but not give you any kind of credit? That stinks, but it's better than buying some kind of chemical that PetsMart pushes on unsuspecting folks quite often. You should have probably looked for a LFS, if you have one, as they work with their customers a little better since their customer service is their main selling point since they usually can't compete with the prices of the big box stores. My LFS will sell BIG utility fish like plecos (algae) and loaches (snails) to people but will take them back and give them store credit. It's a win-win as the people end up raising the fish to a larger size that the LFS can then re-sell at a much higher price and they didn't have to do any work or pay a higher wholesale price for the larger specimen. Hopefully you have a hungry guy and he'll dispense with the snails quickly. As I said earlier, I don't mind a few snails as they are a normal part of the ecology in the wild and they help keep things clean. They'll also let you know if you are overfeeding when you see them start multiplying too much. You probably wouldn't like my Cherry Shrimp tank since I have both snails and planaria but since I am not able to vacuum the gravel in that tank due to the constant breeding of the cherry shrimp so I have dozens of 1/4" long shrimp running around at all times. I rely on the snails and planaria to eat up any cherry shrimp that die. Cherry shrimp are herbivores so they won't eat their own dead so I need the snails and planaria as the clean up crew to keep that tank working right. Wait till you get your first planaria outbreak... once you get rid of the snails... then you'll make sure you don't overfeed any longer when you see all these little white worms crawling all over the glass of your aquarium. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Lenny, I have 3 remaining cories, 14 mollies, 3 ottos, a male beta and female beta. I also have 2 juvenile angel fish. I have a lady coming Wed to take 9 mollies. Her tank has finally cycled. Yeah! Can the snails travel on the mollies? I just thought about that... I went to Petsmart today and got a clown loach. They say I can bring it back but I won't get credit for it. It will have to go in quarantine when it goes back. I only got one. Mongabay said sometimes they'll team up with cories. Maybe I should get two more. In for a penny in for a pound. I just want the snails gone without having to resort to chemicals. I'll be patient. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 8:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem You definitely do not want to take the gravel out to rinse it. That would make a total mess of your tank. No matter how good you vacuum the gravel, there is still a lot of detritus in there. I've cloned tanks before (smaller to larger) and moving the gravel is the last thing I do so when I start scooping up the old gravel and putting it in a colander, all the detritus stays in the old tank but still when I lower the colander into the new tank, there is still a slight cloud of detritus. Since your snails are multiplying like crazy, they are eating something so you may want to cut back on feedings a little until the snail problem slows down. What other fish do you have in your tank? Depending on your stocking levels, etc., maybe one of your local fish stores will "loan" you a shoal of juvenile kuhli, yoyo or clown loaches.. or whatever loach species they may have... for a few months or you could buy them with the plan that they will let you trade them back in a few months for store credit. Loaches need to be kept in shoals of at least three or more and prefer even higher numbers so depending on what you have or plan to have, they'll become a big part of your bioload if you decide to keep them. Do NOT go with clown loaches if you plan to keep them as they get much too large for a 55G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Lenny, I do vacuum the gravel a lot. I do PWC's every 3-4 days. Usually only 8-10 gallons. I use the water on my plants. I actually meant taking the gravel out and using a colander under water to wash out all the snails. I guess I may be overfeeding some but the fish always act like they are starving. Do you think rinsing would take too much of the good stuff out? Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Vacuuming your gravel good will not hurt your good bacteria... but it might suck up some bad ones growing in the detritus or mulm. The good bacteria are microscopic and live on the surface areas of the gravel itself and on all of the surface areas and on each little strand of fiber in your filters. If all that water flowing over them in your filters doesn't knock them loose, then your gravel vacuum won't do it either. In fact, all that extra detritus in your gravel is what is feeding them. Vacuum up all the detritus and the snails will quit multiplying since they only multiply based on the available food. That's an old myth about not vacuuming gravel too much that I see on the internet and in some older books. I vacuum mine till there's no more detritus coming up into the tube and then I move the tube over to the next spot until I've done half my tank. I do half each week since I have two separate Plexiglas lids on my 65G so I move everything to one side and alternate sides each week. Now, cleaning the filters should be done with more care so you don't kill the N-bacteria since that is where the overwhelming majority of your N-bacteria live... since that's where all the ammonia (in the water) gets filtered through several times an hour. It's like a reverse drive-thru where they sit still and the food comes driving by. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem I need more help please. I still have so many snails in my 55 gallon tank. I've tried the zucchini, romaine lettuce. I vacuum out the itty bitty ones and get the ones off the sides that come out at night. Still they keep showing up. I thought about sifting the gravel and trying to get them out that way but don't want to lose my good bacteria. I've also added salt. Not too much though. Just 3 tbs over a weeks time. Anything else I can try? All constructive advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks... Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27286	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2008
Subject: Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine - $1 Digital Subscription in honor o

I am forwarding this email I just received which is in HTML so it may not forward properly but TFH, which is one of the best fish hobby magazines has a new digital subscription (instead of the actual magazine) and it's only $1.00 for a year compared to the magazine subscription which is much more. If you can't read the HTML email below, it basically says: "Act Now - This Offer Only Lasts 24 Hours! To take advantage of this one-time offer, call 1-888-859-9034 or visit the website http://www.tfhmagazine.com and enter promo code EDAY, or send an email to customersupport@... with your name and phone number and a representative will contact you." Here's a chance to try out this very good magazine at a very low cost. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> ________________________________ From: TFH Magazine [mailto:customersupport@...] Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:01 PM To: lnvtm1@... Subject: $1 Digital Subscription in honor of Earth Day! To view this email as a web page, go here. <http://cl.exct.net/?ju=fe66177277650c757515&ls=fdf516717d65007477117776&m=f f021773746707&l=fe9c15727162057e77&s=fe4a13797c600674711d&jb=ffcf14&t=> Earth Day 2008 Earth Day 2008 <http://cl.exct.net/?ju=fe64177277650c757517&ls=fdf516717d65007477117776&m=f f021773746707&l=fe9c15727162057e77&s=fe4a13797c600674711d&jb=ffcf14&t=> Earth Day 2008 <http://cl.exct.net/?ju=fe64177277650c757517&ls=fdf516717d65007477117776&m=f f021773746707&l=fe9c15727162057e77&s=fe4a13797c600674711d&jb=ffcf14&t=> Earth Day 2008 <http://cl.exct.net/?ju=fe64177277650c757517&ls=fdf516717d65007477117776&m=f f021773746707&l=fe9c15727162057e77&s=fe4a13797c600674711d&jb=ffcf14&t=> FTAF 5 <http://cl.exct.net/?ju=fe63177277650c757510&ls=fdf516717d65007477117776&m=f f021773746707&l=fe9c15727162057e77&s=fe4a13797c600674711d&jb=ffcf14&t=> <http://cl.exct.net/?ju=fe63177277650c757510&ls=fdf516717d65007477117776&m=f f021773746707&l=fe9c15727162057e77&s=fe4a13797c600674711d&jb=ffcf14&t=> <http://cl.exct.net/open.aspx?ffcb10-fe9710757062057c77-fdf516717d6500747711 7776-ff021773746707-fe9c15727162057e77-fe4a13797c600674711d-ffcf14> This email was sent by: Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine One TFH Plaza Neptune City, New Jersey 07753 We respect your right to privacy - view our policy <http://cl.exct.net/?ju=fe62177277650c757511&ls=fdf516717d65007477117776&m=f f021773746707&l=fe9c15727162057e77&s=fe4a13797c600674711d&jb=ffcf14&t=> <http://cl.exct.net/?ju=fe61177277650c757512&ls=fdf516717d65007477117776&m=f f021773746707&l=fe9c15727162057e77&s=fe4a13797c600674711d&jb=ffcf14&t=> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27287	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: [A quaticLife] still having a snail problem

Lenny, I do go to a great LFS but didn't think about it yesterday. It is a good drive for me and Petsmart is a lot closer. Petsmart charged 8.00 for the loach. I figure if he/she eats well then it's well worth it. I loved my mystery snail and I had two ramshorn snails in my other 55 gallon tank. They were neat but they didn't last much longer than 8 months or so. The planaria would freak me out. Little worms every where... yuck! I do think the shrimp are interesting but would end up being lunch for some fish. I have started feeding my fish twice a day in little doses so maybe there won't be as much for the snails. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 11:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem I don't think snails will travel unless one of the mollies held still long enough for a snail to crawl on it and lay eggs.... not likely. They usually travel on plants since many snails lay their eggs on plants. If you are only keeping the loach for a short time, it will probably be OK without being in a shoal but maybe another member has better info on this. I've never had a major snail problem... I don't mind having a few... so I've never had to consider getting a loach. So PetsMart sold you the loach... hopefully not too costly... and will take it back but not give you any kind of credit? That stinks, but it's better than buying some kind of chemical that PetsMart pushes on unsuspecting folks quite often. You should have probably looked for a LFS, if you have one, as they work with their customers a little better since their customer service is their main selling point since they usually can't compete with the prices of the big box stores. My LFS will sell BIG utility fish like plecos (algae) and loaches (snails) to people but will take them back and give them store credit. It's a win-win as the people end up raising the fish to a larger size that the LFS can then re-sell at a much higher price and they didn't have to do any work or pay a higher wholesale price for the larger specimen. Hopefully you have a hungry guy and he'll dispense with the snails quickly. As I said earlier, I don't mind a few snails as they are a normal part of the ecology in the wild and they help keep things clean. They'll also let you know if you are overfeeding when you see them start multiplying too much. You probably wouldn't like my Cherry Shrimp tank since I have both snails and planaria but since I am not able to vacuum the gravel in that tank due to the constant breeding of the cherry shrimp so I have dozens of 1/4" long shrimp running around at all times. I rely on the snails and planaria to eat up any cherry shrimp that die. Cherry shrimp are herbivores so they won't eat their own dead so I need the snails and planaria as the clean up crew to keep that tank working right. Wait till you get your first planaria outbreak... once you get rid of the snails... then you'll make sure you don't overfeed any longer when you see all these little white worms crawling all over the glass of your aquarium. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Lenny, I have 3 remaining cories, 14 mollies, 3 ottos, a male beta and female beta. I also have 2 juvenile angel fish. I have a lady coming Wed to take 9 mollies. Her tank has finally cycled. Yeah! Can the snails travel on the mollies? I just thought about that... I went to Petsmart today and got a clown loach. They say I can bring it back but I won't get credit for it. It will have to go in quarantine when it goes back. I only got one. Mongabay said sometimes they'll team up with cories. Maybe I should get two more. In for a penny in for a pound. I just want the snails gone without having to resort to chemicals. I'll be patient. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 8:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem You definitely do not want to take the gravel out to rinse it. That would make a total mess of your tank. No matter how good you vacuum the gravel, there is still a lot of detritus in there. I've cloned tanks before (smaller to larger) and moving the gravel is the last thing I do so when I start scooping up the old gravel and putting it in a colander, all the detritus stays in the old tank but still when I lower the colander into the new tank, there is still a slight cloud of detritus. Since your snails are multiplying like crazy, they are eating something so you may want to cut back on feedings a little until the snail problem slows down. What other fish do you have in your tank? Depending on your stocking levels, etc., maybe one of your local fish stores will "loan" you a shoal of juvenile kuhli, yoyo or clown loaches.. or whatever loach species they may have... for a few months or you could buy them with the plan that they will let you trade them back in a few months for store credit. Loaches need to be kept in shoals of at least three or more and prefer even higher numbers so depending on what you have or plan to have, they'll become a big part of your bioload if you decide to keep them. Do NOT go with clown loaches if you plan to keep them as they get much too large for a 55G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Lenny, I do vacuum the gravel a lot. I do PWC's every 3-4 days. Usually only 8-10 gallons. I use the water on my plants. I actually meant taking the gravel out and using a colander under water to wash out all the snails. I guess I may be overfeeding some but the fish always act like they are starving. Do you think rinsing would take too much of the good stuff out? Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Vacuuming your gravel good will not hurt your good bacteria... but it might suck up some bad ones growing in the detritus or mulm. The good bacteria are microscopic and live on the surface areas of the gravel itself and on all of the surface areas and on each little strand of fiber in your filters. If all that water flowing over them in your filters doesn't knock them loose, then your gravel vacuum won't do it either. In fact, all that extra detritus in your gravel is what is feeding them. Vacuum up all the detritus and the snails will quit multiplying since they only multiply based on the available food. That's an old myth about not vacuuming gravel too much that I see on the internet and in some older books. I vacuum mine till there's no more detritus coming up into the tube and then I move the tube over to the next spot until I've done half my tank. I do half each week since I have two separate Plexiglas lids on my 65G so I move everything to one side and alternate sides each week. Now, cleaning the filters should be done with more care so you don't kill the N-bacteria since that is where the overwhelming majority of your N-bacteria live... since that's where all the ammonia (in the water) gets filtered through several times an hour. It's like a reverse drive-thru where they sit still and the food comes driving by. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com%20%3chttp//GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/%20%3Chttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem I need more help please. I still have so many snails in my 55 gallon tank. I've tried the zucchini, romaine lettuce. I vacuum out the itty bitty ones and get the ones off the sides that come out at night. Still they keep showing up. I thought about sifting the gravel and trying to get them out that way but don't want to lose my good bacteria. I've also added salt. Not too much though. Just 3 tbs over a weeks time. Anything else I can try? All constructive advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks... Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Z`·.¸¸.><((((s>.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸><((((s> ¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..><((((s> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <s((((><.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸<s((((><¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..<s((((><·´Z`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27288	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: [A quaticLife] still having a snail problem

Cherry shrimp are great in planted tanks where the fish aren't too big since the shrimp are so small, they'd make meals for fish more than a couple of inches. They are great little algae eaters and cleaner critters for planted tanks though. I set up a 10G planted tank with plans on breeding them to sell to my LFS but I've been too busy with work following Katrina to do anything more than feed them a tiny broken off piece of an algae wafer every day... and of course a 25% PWC every week when I do my other tanks. Otherwise, that tank is like an overgrown jungle which must be like cherry shrimp heaven to them and it shows since they are breeding like rabbits. At this point, I need to introduce a new strain of DNA into the tank before I would consider selling them just to mix up the genetics again since they've been inbreeding the past couple of years but at least I had several strains when I started so it's not all just brother/sister inbreeding... otherwise I'd have to call them Redneck Cherry Shrimp. LOL (I can say that cuz I'm from the south... albeit, not a redneck!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: [A quaticLife] still having a snail problem Lenny, I do go to a great LFS but didn't think about it yesterday. It is a good drive for me and Petsmart is a lot closer. Petsmart charged 8.00 for the loach. I figure if he/she eats well then it's well worth it. I loved my mystery snail and I had two ramshorn snails in my other 55 gallon tank. They were neat but they didn't last much longer than 8 months or so. The planaria would freak me out. Little worms every where... yuck! I do think the shrimp are interesting but would end up being lunch for some fish. I have started feeding my fish twice a day in little doses so maybe there won't be as much for the snails. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 11:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem I don't think snails will travel unless one of the mollies held still long enough for a snail to crawl on it and lay eggs.... not likely. They usually travel on plants since many snails lay their eggs on plants. If you are only keeping the loach for a short time, it will probably be OK without being in a shoal but maybe another member has better info on this. I've never had a major snail problem... I don't mind having a few... so I've never had to consider getting a loach. So PetsMart sold you the loach... hopefully not too costly... and will take it back but not give you any kind of credit? That stinks, but it's better than buying some kind of chemical that PetsMart pushes on unsuspecting folks quite often. You should have probably looked for a LFS, if you have one, as they work with their customers a little better since their customer service is their main selling point since they usually can't compete with the prices of the big box stores. My LFS will sell BIG utility fish like plecos (algae) and loaches (snails) to people but will take them back and give them store credit. It's a win-win as the people end up raising the fish to a larger size that the LFS can then re-sell at a much higher price and they didn't have to do any work or pay a higher wholesale price for the larger specimen. Hopefully you have a hungry guy and he'll dispense with the snails quickly. As I said earlier, I don't mind a few snails as they are a normal part of the ecology in the wild and they help keep things clean. They'll also let you know if you are overfeeding when you see them start multiplying too much. You probably wouldn't like my Cherry Shrimp tank since I have both snails and planaria but since I am not able to vacuum the gravel in that tank due to the constant breeding of the cherry shrimp so I have dozens of 1/4" long shrimp running around at all times. I rely on the snails and planaria to eat up any cherry shrimp that die. Cherry shrimp are herbivores so they won't eat their own dead so I need the snails and planaria as the clean up crew to keep that tank working right. Wait till you get your first planaria outbreak... once you get rid of the snails... then you'll make sure you don't overfeed any longer when you see all these little white worms crawling all over the glass of your aquarium. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Lenny, I have 3 remaining cories, 14 mollies, 3 ottos, a male beta and female beta. I also have 2 juvenile angel fish. I have a lady coming Wed to take 9 mollies. Her tank has finally cycled. Yeah! Can the snails travel on the mollies? I just thought about that... I went to Petsmart today and got a clown loach. They say I can bring it back but I won't get credit for it. It will have to go in quarantine when it goes back. I only got one. Mongabay said sometimes they'll team up with cories. Maybe I should get two more. In for a penny in for a pound. I just want the snails gone without having to resort to chemicals. I'll be patient. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 8:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem You definitely do not want to take the gravel out to rinse it. That would make a total mess of your tank. No matter how good you vacuum the gravel, there is still a lot of detritus in there. I've cloned tanks before (smaller to larger) and moving the gravel is the last thing I do so when I start scooping up the old gravel and putting it in a colander, all the detritus stays in the old tank but still when I lower the colander into the new tank, there is still a slight cloud of detritus. Since your snails are multiplying like crazy, they are eating something so you may want to cut back on feedings a little until the snail problem slows down. What other fish do you have in your tank? Depending on your stocking levels, etc., maybe one of your local fish stores will "loan" you a shoal of juvenile kuhli, yoyo or clown loaches.. or whatever loach species they may have... for a few months or you could buy them with the plan that they will let you trade them back in a few months for store credit. Loaches need to be kept in shoals of at least three or more and prefer even higher numbers so depending on what you have or plan to have, they'll become a big part of your bioload if you decide to keep them. Do NOT go with clown loaches if you plan to keep them as they get much too large for a 55G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Lenny, I do vacuum the gravel a lot. I do PWC's every 3-4 days. Usually only 8-10 gallons. I use the water on my plants. I actually meant taking the gravel out and using a colander under water to wash out all the snails. I guess I may be overfeeding some but the fish always act like they are starving. Do you think rinsing would take too much of the good stuff out? Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem Vacuuming your gravel good will not hurt your good bacteria... but it might suck up some bad ones growing in the detritus or mulm. The good bacteria are microscopic and live on the surface areas of the gravel itself and on all of the surface areas and on each little strand of fiber in your filters. If all that water flowing over them in your filters doesn't knock them loose, then your gravel vacuum won't do it either. In fact, all that extra detritus in your gravel is what is feeding them. Vacuum up all the detritus and the snails will quit multiplying since they only multiply based on the available food. That's an old myth about not vacuuming gravel too much that I see on the internet and in some older books. I vacuum mine till there's no more detritus coming up into the tube and then I move the tube over to the next spot until I've done half my tank. I do half each week since I have two separate Plexiglas lids on my 65G so I move everything to one side and alternate sides each week. Now, cleaning the filters should be done with more care so you don't kill the N-bacteria since that is where the overwhelming majority of your N-bacteria live... since that's where all the ammonia (in the water) gets filtered through several times an hour. It's like a reverse drive-thru where they sit still and the food comes driving by. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] still having a snail problem I need more help please. I still have so many snails in my 55 gallon tank. I've tried the zucchini, romaine lettuce. I vacuum out the itty bitty ones and get the ones off the sides that come out at night. Still they keep showing up. I thought about sifting the gravel and trying to get them out that way but don't want to lose my good bacteria. I've also added salt. Not too much though. Just 3 tbs over a weeks time. Anything else I can try? All constructive advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks... Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1390 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 4:23 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27289	From: jett07002	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: Amazon Plant

An Amazon Sword plant is beautiful. They also get BIG if they are healthy and properly planted. I am thinking, not knowing more about your situation, that three (3) plants for a 20 gallon tank is too many....unless you planted them knowing that maybe one or two may die off. I have Amazon Swords that easily take up a whole 30 gallon tank by themselves. But, again, like anything else in this hobby, it took patience. It isn't going to grow overnight. When ever I buy a plant for my tank(s) I always look for nice, white roots. If they are brown and mushy, don't buy them. The plant will never make it. After taking off the dead leaves I cut the green healthy leaves with a pair of scissors to about half. This takes the strain off the roots to try to feed a big plant. Go over the plant carefully to be sure there are no snail eggs on the leaves. Then plant them right up to the crown. It's alright to just about cover the crown, but don't bury it deep. Once this plant takes hold, it will reward you with a beautiful green plant. If it's getting too bushy for your tank, cut some of the older leaves and take them out. If all goes well, you will soon see 'runners' reaching out from the plant and going into the substrate. There will soon be a baby Amazon that you can plant elsewhere when it is big enough to handle. joe t > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Carmen H > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amazon Plant > > It sounds to me like inadequate lighting. A standard canopy doesn't produce > enough quality light to support plants that have high lighting needs. > Increasing the length the light it on won't help, only increasing the > intensity, which would mean a new fixture... > > Carmen > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Noun <n-taweel@... > <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello > > Noone replied to this message. So here it is again. Hope someone can > > help here. > > > > Hi > > I planted my 3 amazons a couple of months ago in my 20 g tank. > > As they were too tall and reaching out of the water , I cut the old > > leaves as soon as the plants grew new ones. > > Now each plant has about 20 leaves, but the problem is that they're > > not reaching up, they're spreading themselves horizontally. I don't > > know if it's the lightning, I light the tank about 12 hours aday. I > > used fertilizers only once (pills planted near the roots). > > Another thing, all the old leaves in the buttom are being gauzy. Is > > this normal? > > Btw, I'm no expert in fish keeping, any detailed advise is welcome. > > > > Noura > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 > 3:01 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27290	From: Paula Brown	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Foam?

Just wondering how many of you put a piece of foam between your tank and stand? I know way back when I first got my 55 gallon (maybe 15 or so years ago), I was given a big piece of foam to put between it and the metal stand and it is still that way. But I don't have foam under any of my other tanks (but none of them are on metal stands either). Just wondering. Also, if it is recommended, where are the best (aka cheapest) places to purchase it - like a craft store maybe? Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27291	From: James	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: trouble with my black molly

Years ago I had this trouble to and all the Mollies just died away. Later I found out that Mollies needed salt, so I thought it was a salt issue. James Dorans --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27292	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: Foam?

It's not needed. As long as the stand is reasonably level and sturdy and the frame of the tank sits on the stand, then that's the main thing. If the frame of the tank does not sit level and even on the stand or if the tank frame, for some reason, is larger than the stand, then you would want more than just foam board supporting it. In that case, 1" thick boards or 1/2" thick plywood would be a better choice. As to your question as to where to get it, they sell the foam board in 1/2"+ thicknesses in the insulation sections of most big box home improvement stores. They probably sell the poster board type foam board (1/8" to 1/4" thick) at craft stores or possibly department stores with large school supply sections. If I was going to go with some type of thin foam board, I'd probably just go with a piece of corrugated cardboard (like a section cut out from a refrigerator or washing machine box). I did use that between my 65G tank and the DIY stand but it was more to keep the fish from seeing through the bottom glass in the event the thin layer of gravel got moved around. I guess in a heated tank, having some type of insulation, even if only on that one pane of the tank, might help keep some of the heat-loss from going through the bottom of the tank but the corrugated cardboard might work just as well... at least that's what the homeless guy under the bridge says about his box house and newspaper blanket. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Foam? Just wondering how many of you put a piece of foam between your tank and stand? I know way back when I first got my 55 gallon (maybe 15 or so years ago), I was given a big piece of foam to put between it and the metal stand and it is still that way. But I don't have foam under any of my other tanks (but none of them are on metal stands either). Just wondering. Also, if it is recommended, where are the best (aka cheapest) places to purchase it - like a craft store maybe? Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1390 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 4:23 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27293	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Mold in aquariums?

Say, dumb question; my housemate doesn't realize that dirt and germs and mold are actually two sides of the same issue. To this day, after three years, she doesn't understand why I clean the bird cage every other day; just insists that birds are nasty. Is there a problem with mold with aquariums? I'm just checking, now. No, she doesn't mean leaking aquariums, I checked. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27294	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: Mold in aquariums?

Where are you getting mold? Yes, mold goes hand in hand when there is a food source and moisture so aquariums certainly can be mold farms but most properly maintained tanks do NOT have mold issues because of the overall ecology of a tank. On a side note, your AVG antivirus definitions are out of date since 4/4/2008 and you are operating on version 7.5.519 instead of the more current 7.5.524. I think the program underwent an update around that time which required a firewall rule modification so the updated version could access the internet so there is a chance your firewall is blocking AVG from doing its routine once-a-day update of virus definitions. If you are not computer literate and everything I just said made you think, "HUH?", then have someone who is computer literate check out your computer for infections and/or fix your firewall issue and update your AVG software and definitions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? Say, dumb question; my housemate doesn't realize that dirt and germs and mold are actually two sides of the same issue. To this day, after three years, she doesn't understand why I clean the bird cage every other day; just insists that birds are nasty. Is there a problem with mold with aquariums? I'm just checking, now. No, she doesn't mean leaking aquariums, I checked. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1390 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 4:23 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27295	From: Chris McCarthy	Date: 4/22/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

Hi Lenny - Thanks for the quick response! The message you're thinking of wasn't from me - I just joined about three weeks ago, and this was my first post. I do get the compiled digest of e-mails once a day - I thought that included all of the posts, but maybe I did miss some. After reading your message and before writing back, I looked through older messages (but not all 27,000), and didn't see anything similar. There was a recent one from a fellow asking about the number of tetras for an 8 gallon, and some older ones asking about salt as a curative, but nothing that really addressed what I am looking to learn about. There did seem to be a number of members who keep mollies and tetras together, but I couldn't find any reference to how much salt (if any) is used. My wife has a ten gallon with four mollies, and keeps three tablespoons of salt in it, and they're doing well. My daughter would like some in her tank, but I want to hear from some more experienced folk before making any decisions. Thanks again! - Chris ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27296	From: Rob White	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: FILTER

JUST A FLUVAL 3 PLUS LOADS OF FISH ERM TANK IS PROBERLY 3 FT LONG "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: What do you have now? What kind of fish and how many do you have in the 35G? Is your tank a long tank or tall tank? What are the dimensions? Eheim's have a very good reputation as being quality products but I found them to be overpriced compared to other quality products that were available when I was shopping for canister filters for my tanks a couple of years ago. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rob_white18 Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 9:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] FILTER I HAVE A 35 GALLON TANK AND THINKING OF CHANGING MY FILTER TO A ENHEIM CLASSIC 2213 DO YOU ALL THINK THIS IS A WORTHY INVESTMENT THANKS No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1386 - Release Date: 4/18/2008 5:24 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27297	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

Wow - thanks! But one question. Isn't it the fish that make the ammonia and nitrogen wastes the bacteria act on? So how would friendly bacteria start growing in a tank that has no fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions If your room temp fluctuates that much per day, it would be best to have a heater keeping it at 78-80 all the time for tropical fish. Mongabay profiles are one of the most accurate and detailed out there and like most corys, they like to be in shoals of five or more. Here's the Mongabay profile for more info. Read all the reference links at the bottom also. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras_pygmaeus.html Since they only grow to around an inch, you could have five of them and a school of 5-6 neon tetras and if you go with some live plants to help the overall ecology of the tank, you shouldn't have any overstocking problems. For more ideas about 10G tank stocking, go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side in the labels section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions which will give you lots of other ideas you might want to consider. While at my blog, go to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and take one or both of the free online tutorials which will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping which will answer most of your questions below and give you a few more. Come back here and ask away. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning" which will answer your questions about your filter cartridges. It would be a good idea to start fishless cycling your tank now.. see link in the A to Z page.. while you are learning all of the other basics of fish keeping and that way, you won't have to worry about the hazards to the fish caused by cycling with fish. Running the tank for a week or two does nothing to get it ready for fish. Fishless Cycling for a few weeks will get it ready for fish. When you see the word Cycle or Cycling in fish keeping, it refers to "The Nitrogen Cycle" where you need to grow a healthy colony of nitrifying bacteria which will consume the ammonia and nitrite turning them into much less harmful nitrate and nitrate is kept in check with your regular weekly or bi-weekly 25% PWC's... depending on the bioload and ecology of the individual tank. You don't need a maturing agent.. whatever that is. lol You don't need to fool with your pH and avoid ALL chemicals that your fish store might try to sell you except for the basic dechlor product to make your tap water safe for the fish. Also do a Tap Water Baseline Test... see my blog article on that.. so you'll know what your tap water really is going to be like for your fish. Post your numbers here and we'll help you decipher them. These pages have easy and very easy to keep live plants so you could look around to see what's available. You won't need any special lighting or CO2 for these types of plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions I'm setting up a 10 gallon aquarium. I previously had swordtails many years ago and wasn't very successful. Planning to put tetras and pygmy corydoras. Live in central Texas. Room temperature usually between 70 and 80. Do I need a heater? Do I actually need minimum of five pygmy corydoras? If I'm thinking of some combination of neon, cardinal, black neon and glowlight tetras, and pygmy corydoras, I can have how many in a 10 gallon tank? If I can have 12 fish in a 10 gallon tank and 5 of them must be pygmy corydoras, and the others will all be tetras, what is the minimum number of each kind of tetra that I can have? Do I need a test kit for nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia or only for Ph? What do I actually do if the ph is off? How many live plants do I want to put in a 10 gallon tank? Both tetras and corydoras like cover. I ordered maybe a dozen plastic plants, none of which are much on cover. Ordered a tetra whisper power filter. 20 Economy. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753026 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753026> It says it comes with a bio-bag filter cartridge, and the bigger models also include free samples of bio-foam and water conditioner. I ordered some water conditioner. Do I also need to order bio-foam? Should I use a tank maturing agent? How good an idea is it to run the tank for a week or two before I put in any fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27298	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

Question. Do I have to get for instance 5-6 neon tetras, or could I get 3 neon tetras and 3 black neon tetras, or 3 glowlight tetras and three black neon tetras? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Since they only grow to around an inch, you could have five of them and a school of 5-6 neon tetras and if you go with some live plants to help the overall ecology of the tank, you shouldn't have any overstocking problems. For more ideas about 10G tank stocking, go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side in the labels section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions which will give you lots of other ideas you might want to consider. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27299	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Are you sure? I think that maybe you mean a different product called The One and Only, made by teh guy whose research is the foundation of the three bacteria formula in bio-spira? I'd not buy from him - he won't even confirm that the third bacteria is in his product! Someone on another list thought that that product had been substituted for the reformulated bio-spira and that is why Marineland stopped carrying the biospira. I'd be rather amazed if reformulated biospira had become a different product, particularly since safestart has been sold in Europe for some time and they're swearing by it over there. I've an idea that it does make a similar claim about not needing refrigeration. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. This is supposed to be the newly formulated Bio-Spira that is now going to be sold as an off the shelf product. I won't waste my money on it any time soon since I don't really like Tetra products all that much anyhow due to some of the things they promote. I'll wait to see what others say when they try it but I have a feeling it's not going to be any better than any of the other off-the-shelf so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle products. The science simply doesn't support the ability of nitrifying bacteria to be able to live in a bottle on a shelf... without a source of ammonia and oxygen. I think that if it really was going to work as good as the original Bio-Spira, Marineland would have kept the name and benefitted from the good public awareness about Bio-Spira but instead they sold the distribution rights to Tetra and changed the name. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Results of query to the company: Hello, It actually hasn't been distributed to stores here in the US yet. That is scheduled for distribution the week of May 19th. Thank you, United Pet Group -----Original Message----- From: tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> [mailto:tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ] Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:14 PM To: US Consumer Support Subject: TW -- General Contact Us Request A Contact Us email has been sent from the Tetra Site. Here is the information. Email: tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> Message: -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27300	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Mold in aquariums?

I'm not getting mold - yet. Don't have teh tank set up! I'm aware of the AVG issue. It won't let me renew for one year. I wrote to them, and apparently they didn't deign to answer. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? Where are you getting mold? Yes, mold goes hand in hand when there is a food source and moisture so aquariums certainly can be mold farms but most properly maintained tanks do NOT have mold issues because of the overall ecology of a tank. On a side note, your AVG antivirus definitions are out of date since 4/4/2008 and you are operating on version 7.5.519 instead of the more current 7.5.524. I think the program underwent an update around that time which required a firewall rule modification so the updated version could access the internet so there is a chance your firewall is blocking AVG from doing its routine once-a-day update of virus definitions. If you are not computer literate and everything I just said made you think, "HUH?", then have someone who is computer literate check out your computer for infections and/or fix your firewall issue and update your AVG software and definitions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? Say, dumb question; my housemate doesn't realize that dirt and germs and mold are actually two sides of the same issue. To this day, after three years, she doesn't understand why I clean the bird cage every other day; just insists that birds are nasty. Is there a problem with mold with aquariums? I'm just checking, now. No, she doesn't mean leaking aquariums, I checked. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1390 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 4:23 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27301	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Foam?

Paula, If in doubt about whether a tank needs further and more even supporting, I'd go with a sheet of plywood the dimensions of the stand, as Lenny suggests. I've used 3/4" plywood to ensure its resistance to forming to any unevenness of the stand. On larger tanks (125 & up), I've even used two sheets of 3/4" plywood, although that might be overkill and unnecessary but more assured. I know that foam of any type has long been recommended for evening out any unevenness between a tank and stand, athough I maintain that this is totally foolhardy. The object of using any material to even out the support of the weight of a tank is to fill in that portion of where there is any gap between the tank and the stand, with as much support as there is between that portion of the tank that directly meets the stand -- sort of like putting a small wedge in the gap area to the extent that the support is as solid there as it is where the tank is resting directly on the stand. Using a full sheet of foam the size of the bottom of the tank will not work, neither will only a section of foam under just the gap area. When using a full-sized sheet of foam under the bottom of a tank, the portion of it that is between the tank where the tank was otherwise making direct contact with the stand will obviously be compressed the most, to its maximum compression since that's where the full weight of the tank rests. The portion of the foam that is now in the gap area, filling this area in, may look to some people that its now being supported as much as the more compressed areas are since after all it is now filled in and crushed down. What is not being taken into consideration is that this area of foam IS STILL NOT supporting the tank since it is not yet being fully compressed -- only partially compressed -- and has the capacity to be compressed further as witness the part of the foam that is getting the full weight of the tank. Even when using foam only in those gap areas, without putting it under the areas where the tank solidly meets the stand, it usually has the capacity to compress more and in that situation it is never fully supporting the tank as evenly as where the tank meets the stand directly, but merely filling in the gap albeit now with the material being mostly (if not fully) compressed. Full support of the weight is only obtained when the foam is compressed to a state of being as solid of a support as where the tank and stand firmly meet. If there's room for further compression, no matter how little that me be, full support is not yet obtained. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <brownp3@...> wrote: > > Just wondering how many of you put a piece of foam between your tank and stand? I know way back when I first got my 55 gallon (maybe 15 or so years ago), I was given a big piece of foam to put between it and the metal stand and it is still that way. But I don't have foam under any of my other tanks (but none of them are on metal stands either). Just wondering. Also, if it is recommended, where are the best (aka cheapest) places to purchase it - like a craft store maybe? > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27302	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

"Fishless Cycling" is a procedure where we use plain household ammonia (no scents, surfactants, soaps, etc... just plain ammonia available at Ace Hardware and many other places) and add it to the new tank up to 4-5ppm and check it once a day and add more as needed to keep it up to 4-5ppm until the tank is cycling the ammonia through the nitrite and then to nitrate compounds. My A to Z of fish keeping page has a link to a full article on Fishless Cycling with detailed instructions. This process takes a few weeks and up to six weeks but can be much quicker (7-10 days) if the new filter media is seeded with some filter material or gravel borrowed from a healthy tank. Fishless cycling keeps from having to put the fish through the arduous process which can permanently damage and/or kill them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 7:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Wow - thanks! But one question. Isn't it the fish that make the ammonia and nitrogen wastes the bacteria act on? So how would friendly bacteria start growing in a tank that has no fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions If your room temp fluctuates that much per day, it would be best to have a heater keeping it at 78-80 all the time for tropical fish. Mongabay profiles are one of the most accurate and detailed out there and like most corys, they like to be in shoals of five or more. Here's the Mongabay profile for more info. Read all the reference links at the bottom also. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras_pygmaeus.html Since they only grow to around an inch, you could have five of them and a school of 5-6 neon tetras and if you go with some live plants to help the overall ecology of the tank, you shouldn't have any overstocking problems. For more ideas about 10G tank stocking, go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side in the labels section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions which will give you lots of other ideas you might want to consider. While at my blog, go to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and take one or both of the free online tutorials which will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping which will answer most of your questions below and give you a few more. Come back here and ask away. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning" which will answer your questions about your filter cartridges. It would be a good idea to start fishless cycling your tank now.. see link in the A to Z page.. while you are learning all of the other basics of fish keeping and that way, you won't have to worry about the hazards to the fish caused by cycling with fish. Running the tank for a week or two does nothing to get it ready for fish. Fishless Cycling for a few weeks will get it ready for fish. When you see the word Cycle or Cycling in fish keeping, it refers to "The Nitrogen Cycle" where you need to grow a healthy colony of nitrifying bacteria which will consume the ammonia and nitrite turning them into much less harmful nitrate and nitrate is kept in check with your regular weekly or bi-weekly 25% PWC's... depending on the bioload and ecology of the individual tank. You don't need a maturing agent.. whatever that is. lol You don't need to fool with your pH and avoid ALL chemicals that your fish store might try to sell you except for the basic dechlor product to make your tap water safe for the fish. Also do a Tap Water Baseline Test... see my blog article on that.. so you'll know what your tap water really is going to be like for your fish. Post your numbers here and we'll help you decipher them. These pages have easy and very easy to keep live plants so you could look around to see what's available. You won't need any special lighting or CO2 for these types of plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions I'm setting up a 10 gallon aquarium. I previously had swordtails many years ago and wasn't very successful. Planning to put tetras and pygmy corydoras. Live in central Texas. Room temperature usually between 70 and 80. Do I need a heater? Do I actually need minimum of five pygmy corydoras? If I'm thinking of some combination of neon, cardinal, black neon and glowlight tetras, and pygmy corydoras, I can have how many in a 10 gallon tank? If I can have 12 fish in a 10 gallon tank and 5 of them must be pygmy corydoras, and the others will all be tetras, what is the minimum number of each kind of tetra that I can have? Do I need a test kit for nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia or only for Ph? What do I actually do if the ph is off? How many live plants do I want to put in a 10 gallon tank? Both tetras and corydoras like cover. I ordered maybe a dozen plastic plants, none of which are much on cover. Ordered a tetra whisper power filter. 20 Economy. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753026 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753026> It says it comes with a bio-bag filter cartridge, and the bigger models also include free samples of bio-foam and water conditioner. I ordered some water conditioner. Do I also need to order bio-foam? Should I use a tank maturing agent? How good an idea is it to run the tank for a week or two before I put in any fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27303	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

Neon Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html Glowlight Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.html Black Neon - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_herbertaxelrodi.html As you can see from their scientific names (the last part of the URL's), they are different species, although all from the same Characin family. I've seen forum posts and articles about inter-species schooling but it's not something that is guaranteed nor should it be part of your planning UNLESS you have an agreement with your fish store that you can bring back fish that do not school and swap them out for ones of the same species. The Black Neon's get bigger than the Neon Tetra's and Glowlight Tetra's. Since you are already dealing with a small tank where you will be stocking it completely to the limits, you should stick with the smaller species to help avoid an overstocking situation. I've never kept Neon's or Glowlights so I do not know if they will inter-school or not so maybe someone else in the group will have an opinion on this or you could just try it and see if they do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Question. Do I have to get for instance 5-6 neon tetras, or could I get 3 neon tetras and 3 black neon tetras, or 3 glowlight tetras and three black neon tetras? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Since they only grow to around an inch, you could have five of them and a school of 5-6 neon tetras and if you go with some live plants to help the overall ecology of the tank, you shouldn't have any overstocking problems. For more ideas about 10G tank stocking, go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side in the labels section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions which will give you lots of other ideas you might want to consider. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27304	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Below my sig is the reply I got from Marineland a few weeks ago when inquiring about Bio-Spira. I see that my email reply references a product called "Start Right" but since there was already a product called Start Right on the market, I presumed they decided to change the name to Safe Start since the timeline worked with your announcement and the name was so similar to the email info I got from Marineland... although the reply was signed by someone with a Tetra.net email address. I'm sorry to see Marineland get in bed with Tetra as I always considered them to be on opposite ends of the quality scale with Marineland being on the good end. I also notice that your email has "United Pet Group" and my email reply also has that name in the sig. You mention "The One And Only" product but I did a Google and do not see anything about it. You mention from "the guy whose research ... is the basis of bio-spira" which I'll presume to be Dr. Timothy Hovanec and I would trust him over nearly anyone else or their products. His team's research which led to the "invention" of the Bio-Wheel, Bio-Spira and many other "new" products, was peer reviewed by several other independent sources and the Bio-Spira process was granted a patent and I know that it actually worked where none of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products worked. I tried several of them and not a single one actually cycled a tank where Bio-Spira actually did. I just did a second Google with more defined search terms and have found some links about One & Only which apparently is being distributed by Dr. Timothy Hovanec. Do you have any links to articles or threads that would make you believe this is not a good product? Here is Dr. Tim's apparently new website with info about "One & Only"... http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Helpful_hints/OneandOnlyFAQs/OneandOnlyFAQs.ht ml Apparently his product doesn't have to be refrigerated either but will only last six months at room temp whereas if refrigerated, will last for a year. The FAQ page details how this works. Maybe the new Tetra product will work the same way. I'll still trust Dr. Hovanec over nearly any other company's claims out there. Apparently, there was some kind of major shake-down at Marineland for Dr. Hovanec to go out on his own with his own new product and then Marineland opting to join up with Tetra and releasing a non-refrigerated product (which historically and scientifically do not work... although Dr. Tim's new product looks like it doesn't have to be refrigerated although it looks like they recommend that it be kept refrigerated). I don't have time to read through all of the links I found in my second Google search right now but I'll read through them and add to my recent blog about Bio-Spira. Thanks for the heads up on One & Only. I read and post on several forums and yours is the first I've seen on this product but if Dr. Hovanec is putting his name on it, I'll bet it works see he may have held the patent on the process for Bio-Spira and Marineland owned the name so when they split up, he had to pick a new name. I'll know more after I read all the new info in my search. I guess I'll have to set up several 10G tanks and fishless cycle each of them using the various products to see how they each work. I've been hoping someone else would do this Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------- Hello, We are relaunching bio-spira. It is in a new package and reformulated. It will no longer need to be refrigerated, and hopefully, soon on every store shelf across the nation. The freshwater version will be branded Tetra and called start right, while the saltwater version will be branded Instant Ocean and still be called Bio-Spira. They held off on adding it to the webpage because of this change. Regards, Robert Huber United Pet Group, Aquatics Div. Senior Consumer Relations Specialist Robert.Huber@... <mailto:Robert.Huber%40Tetra.net> 1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 -------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Are you sure? I think that maybe you mean a different product called The One and Only, made by teh guy whose research is the foundation of the three bacteria formula in bio-spira? I'd not buy from him - he won't even confirm that the third bacteria is in his product! Someone on another list thought that that product had been substituted for the reformulated bio-spira and that is why Marineland stopped carrying the biospira. I'd be rather amazed if reformulated biospira had become a different product, particularly since safestart has been sold in Europe for some time and they're swearing by it over there. I've an idea that it does make a similar claim about not needing refrigeration. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. This is supposed to be the newly formulated Bio-Spira that is now going to be sold as an off the shelf product. I won't waste my money on it any time soon since I don't really like Tetra products all that much anyhow due to some of the things they promote. I'll wait to see what others say when they try it but I have a feeling it's not going to be any better than any of the other off-the-shelf so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle products. The science simply doesn't support the ability of nitrifying bacteria to be able to live in a bottle on a shelf... without a source of ammonia and oxygen. I think that if it really was going to work as good as the original Bio-Spira, Marineland would have kept the name and benefitted from the good public awareness about Bio-Spira but instead they sold the distribution rights to Tetra and changed the name. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Results of query to the company: Hello, It actually hasn't been distributed to stores here in the US yet. That is scheduled for distribution the week of May 19th. Thank you, United Pet Group -----Original Message----- From: tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> [mailto:tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ] Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:14 PM To: US Consumer Support Subject: TW -- General Contact Us Request A Contact Us email has been sent from the Tetra Site. Here is the information. Email: tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27305	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Mold in aquariums?

Something doesn't sound right about your AVG issues. If you don't know a computer geek, email me off-list (goldlenny@...) and I'll help you get it straightened out since this isn't a computer security forum. Besides fish, I'm also pretty good with computers but I don't use a pocket protector so I haven't reached computer geek status yet. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 7:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? I'm not getting mold - yet. Don't have teh tank set up! I'm aware of the AVG issue. It won't let me renew for one year. I wrote to them, and apparently they didn't deign to answer. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? Where are you getting mold? Yes, mold goes hand in hand when there is a food source and moisture so aquariums certainly can be mold farms but most properly maintained tanks do NOT have mold issues because of the overall ecology of a tank. On a side note, your AVG antivirus definitions are out of date since 4/4/2008 and you are operating on version 7.5.519 instead of the more current 7.5.524. I think the program underwent an update around that time which required a firewall rule modification so the updated version could access the internet so there is a chance your firewall is blocking AVG from doing its routine once-a-day update of virus definitions. If you are not computer literate and everything I just said made you think, "HUH?", then have someone who is computer literate check out your computer for infections and/or fix your firewall issue and update your AVG software and definitions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? Say, dumb question; my housemate doesn't realize that dirt and germs and mold are actually two sides of the same issue. To this day, after three years, she doesn't understand why I clean the bird cage every other day; just insists that birds are nasty. Is there a problem with mold with aquariums? I'm just checking, now. No, she doesn't mean leaking aquariums, I checked. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1390 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 4:23 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27306	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

What a coincidence... I just got my regular "Sale" email from DrsFosterSmith and what was one of the three featured items? Dr. Tim's One & Only... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18986&ref=4610 &subref=AA&cmpid=E-_-FS-_-42308-_-P5 Only $11.99 for a 2 oz. bottle but the S&H is $19.99 since DrsFosterSmith is shipping it overnight and in a cooler pack to keep it refrigerated or at least cool since Dr. Tim's website mentions that temps over 95F could cause product failure. It's being advertised to be used exactly like Bio-Spira... pour the entire bottle in your tank one day and add fish the next day. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:45 AM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Below my sig is the reply I got from Marineland a few weeks ago when inquiring about Bio-Spira. I see that my email reply references a product called "Start Right" but since there was already a product called Start Right on the market, I presumed they decided to change the name to Safe Start since the timeline worked with your announcement and the name was so similar to the email info I got from Marineland... although the reply was signed by someone with a Tetra.net email address. I'm sorry to see Marineland get in bed with Tetra as I always considered them to be on opposite ends of the quality scale with Marineland being on the good end. I also notice that your email has "United Pet Group" and my email reply also has that name in the sig. You mention "The One And Only" product but I did a Google and do not see anything about it. You mention from "the guy whose research ... is the basis of bio-spira" which I'll presume to be Dr. Timothy Hovanec and I would trust him over nearly anyone else or their products. His team's research which led to the "invention" of the Bio-Wheel, Bio-Spira and many other "new" products, was peer reviewed by several other independent sources and the Bio-Spira process was granted a patent and I know that it actually worked where none of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products worked. I tried several of them and not a single one actually cycled a tank where Bio-Spira actually did. I just did a second Google with more defined search terms and have found some links about One & Only which apparently is being distributed by Dr. Timothy Hovanec. Do you have any links to articles or threads that would make you believe this is not a good product? Here is Dr. Tim's apparently new website with info about "One & Only"... http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Helpful_hints/OneandOnlyFAQs/OneandOnlyFAQs.ht ml Apparently his product doesn't have to be refrigerated either but will only last six months at room temp whereas if refrigerated, will last for a year. The FAQ page details how this works. Maybe the new Tetra product will work the same way. I'll still trust Dr. Hovanec over nearly any other company's claims out there. Apparently, there was some kind of major shake-down at Marineland for Dr. Hovanec to go out on his own with his own new product and then Marineland opting to join up with Tetra and releasing a non-refrigerated product (which historically and scientifically do not work... although Dr. Tim's new product looks like it doesn't have to be refrigerated although it looks like they recommend that it be kept refrigerated). I don't have time to read through all of the links I found in my second Google search right now but I'll read through them and add to my recent blog about Bio-Spira. Thanks for the heads up on One & Only. I read and post on several forums and yours is the first I've seen on this product but if Dr. Hovanec is putting his name on it, I'll bet it works see he may have held the patent on the process for Bio-Spira and Marineland owned the name so when they split up, he had to pick a new name. I'll know more after I read all the new info in my search. I guess I'll have to set up several 10G tanks and fishless cycle each of them using the various products to see how they each work. I've been hoping someone else would do this Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------- Hello, We are relaunching bio-spira. It is in a new package and reformulated. It will no longer need to be refrigerated, and hopefully, soon on every store shelf across the nation. The freshwater version will be branded Tetra and called start right, while the saltwater version will be branded Instant Ocean and still be called Bio-Spira. They held off on adding it to the webpage because of this change. Regards, Robert Huber United Pet Group, Aquatics Div. Senior Consumer Relations Specialist Robert.Huber@... <mailto:Robert.Huber%40Tetra.net> 1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 -------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Are you sure? I think that maybe you mean a different product called The One and Only, made by teh guy whose research is the foundation of the three bacteria formula in bio-spira? I'd not buy from him - he won't even confirm that the third bacteria is in his product! Someone on another list thought that that product had been substituted for the reformulated bio-spira and that is why Marineland stopped carrying the biospira. I'd be rather amazed if reformulated biospira had become a different product, particularly since safestart has been sold in Europe for some time and they're swearing by it over there. I've an idea that it does make a similar claim about not needing refrigeration. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. This is supposed to be the newly formulated Bio-Spira that is now going to be sold as an off the shelf product. I won't waste my money on it any time soon since I don't really like Tetra products all that much anyhow due to some of the things they promote. I'll wait to see what others say when they try it but I have a feeling it's not going to be any better than any of the other off-the-shelf so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle products. The science simply doesn't support the ability of nitrifying bacteria to be able to live in a bottle on a shelf... without a source of ammonia and oxygen. I think that if it really was going to work as good as the original Bio-Spira, Marineland would have kept the name and benefitted from the good public awareness about Bio-Spira but instead they sold the distribution rights to Tetra and changed the name. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Results of query to the company: Hello, It actually hasn't been distributed to stores here in the US yet. That is scheduled for distribution the week of May 19th. Thank you, United Pet Group -----Original Message----- From: tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> [mailto:tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ] Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:14 PM To: US Consumer Support Subject: TW -- General Contact Us Request A Contact Us email has been sent from the Tetra Site. Here is the information. Email: tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27307	From: Paula Brown	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Betta Question

Background: I have many planted tanks, some big/some small, and in my smaller ones (none smaller than two gallon), I keep male Betta's (of course one Betta in each tank). My one male Betta lives in a 10 gallon with two small cory's and two White Clouds. In the past couple of weeks, he started terrorizing the White Clouds (leaving the cory's alone). I purchased three more White Clouds for that tank and he seems to have backed off on his aggression - maybe he feels intimadated now!<G> I have another male Betta in a two gallon with two White Clouds - he doesn't bother them at all. I have another five gallon Eclipse tank with a male CrownTail in it. He is so handsome but tends to hang around in the plants so I barely get to see him. I added some more plants from my 55 gallon recently and evidently transfered some snails along with them. Now he is terrorizing one particular snail. He keeps mouthing it (it is too big for his mouth) until it lets free of the side of the tank and then he bops it around the tank like a soccer ball! I had hoped to add a couple Otto's in there and maybe three White Clouds but now after seeing his behavior with this snail, I wonder if he won't just change his aggression to them? I hate having this nice looking tank with just him in it, but it just seems like he is an aggressive guy. I have another two gallon tank I could transfer him to but I would feel bad moving him from a five gallon to a two gallon - I know, I am transferring emotions! Are there any "toys" you can buy/make for fish tanks? He really seems to be having fun tormenting this snail (and I am starting to feel bad for the snail and I don't like snails!). I have gave him shelled peas but he just eats them. And speaking of peas, when they say to "shell" it, do they mean from the pod or the actual pea itself? Those "shells" on the actual pea can be hard to get off without squishing it. I am cycling another 10 gallon right now (fishless) and had wanted to get another male Betta for that tank but now I have changed my mind. I know that they are fighting fish but I guess I didn't know that they would fight any fish! A few weeks ago, I purchased two female Betta's for my 55 gallon community tank. Now I notice one of them is harrassing some of my Zebra Danio's (long and short finned). Luckily there is enough room and plants to run and hide in there. These Betta's are gorgeous but are that really that nasty in general? Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27308	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Mold in aquariums?

<accent type="bad german">Vie have vays of making you a geek bwahahahahahahah</accent> Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny /*Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:49 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? /* /*Something doesn't sound right about your AVG issues. If you don't know a /*computer geek, email me off-list (goldlenny@...) and I'll help you /*get /*it straightened out since this isn't a computer security forum. /* /*Besides fish, I'm also pretty good with computers but I don't use a pocket /*protector so I haven't reached computer geek status yet. LOL /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Dora Smith /*Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 7:10 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? /* /*I'm not getting mold - yet. Don't have teh tank set up! /* /*I'm aware of the AVG issue. It won't let me renew for one year. I /*wrote /*to them, and apparently they didn't deign to answer. /* /*Yours, /*Dora Smith /*Austin, TX /*tiggernut24@... /*----- Original Message ----- /*From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> /*To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> /*Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:56 PM /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? /* /* /*Where are you getting mold? /* /*Yes, mold goes hand in hand when there is a food source and moisture so /*aquariums certainly can be mold farms but most properly maintained tanks /*do /*NOT have mold issues because of the overall ecology of a tank. /* /*On a side note, your AVG antivirus definitions are out of date since /*4/4/2008 and you are operating on version 7.5.519 instead of the more /*current 7.5.524. I think the program underwent an update around that time /*which required a firewall rule modification so the updated version could /*access the internet so there is a chance your firewall is blocking AVG /*from /*doing its routine once-a-day update of virus definitions. If you are not /*computer literate and everything I just said made you think, "HUH?", then /*have someone who is computer literate check out your computer for /*infections /*and/or fix your firewall issue and update your AVG software and /*definitions. /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Dora Smith /*Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:19 PM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? /* /*Say, dumb question; my housemate doesn't realize that dirt and germs and /*mold are actually two sides of the same issue. To this day, after three /*years, she doesn't understand why I clean the bird cage every other day; /*just insists that birds are nasty. /* /*Is there a problem with mold with aquariums? /* /*I'm just checking, now. /* /*No, she doesn't mean leaking aquariums, I checked. /* /*Yours, /*Dora Smith /*Austin, TX /*tiggernut24@... /* /* /* /*-- /*Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. /*Checked by AVG. /*Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 /*6:02 PM /* /* /*No virus found in this outgoing message. /*Checked by AVG. /*Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1390 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 /*4:23 PM /* /* /*No virus found in this outgoing message. /*Checked by AVG. /*Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 /*3:51 PM /* /* /* /*------------------------------------ /* /*Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. /*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /*

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27309	From: Paula Brown	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Hospital Tank

How do ya'll maintain a hospital tank? Once it cycles, do you just put some fish food in there daily to keep it going so that it is always ready in case it is needed? I have an empty ten gallon that I was considering using as a hospital tank but it seems so sad to have it looking nice (with plants) but no fish in it. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27310	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

Paula, I'm still pretty new to bettas and I've never kept other fish - I have a 10G with 4 females in it. At first they got along great and then there was some dispute as to who was boss (the loner decided she was after letting the others fall into order). Then they figured out they could have two bosses if they had two groups - oh boy. I finally got it planted enough so that they can hide from each other when they need to (pretty dense compared to most 10G tanks I've seen). I dunno if I'd call them nasty, but they do have their share of attitude. Judging by my 4 I'd say they have a strong sense of "social" hierarchy and tend to be a possessive about their "personal" space. I have heard to them referred to as the "nippy" fish which I would say is quite accurate - just like little kids pinching someone when they don't get their way. I was thinking of getting some otos for their tank but it isn't well established enough for me to do that yet. I must admit I've wondered to how well otos would hold up with their rough games but I also don't think the otos would be the type to contest their hierarchy or invade their space. -Lana These Betta's are gorgeous but are that really that nasty in general? > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27311	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Java Fern

I have a Java Fern in my tank that is starting to look like it might be unhappy. It isn't browning but the ends of one or two of the leaves have become a darker green than the rest. The regular Java Fern is placed immediately in front of the intake of my in-tank whisper filter, and I am starting to wonder if it would prefer a stiller spot in the tank (I have two narrow leaf Java Ferns that are doing just fine on the other side of the tank). All the other plants (naja grass, peacock moss, hornwort, hygro) are doing just fine. Is it possible it wants a lower water flow or could something else be wrong? -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27312	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Mold in aquariums?

<insert eyeroll here> Lol!! --- On Wed, 4/23/08, Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > From: Eric Roberts <woad@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 12:51 PM > <accent type="bad german">Vie have vays of > making you a geek > bwahahahahahahah</accent> > > Eric > > /*-----Original Message----- > /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > /*Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > /*Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:49 AM > /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? > /* > /*Something doesn't sound right about your AVG issues. > If you don't know a > /*computer geek, email me off-list (goldlenny@...) > and I'll help you > /*get > /*it straightened out since this isn't a computer > security forum. > /* > /*Besides fish, I'm also pretty good with computers but > I don't use a pocket > /*protector so I haven't reached computer geek status > yet. LOL > /* > /*Lenny Vasbinder > /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > /* > /* > /*-----Original Message----- > /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > /*Behalf Of Dora Smith > /*Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 7:10 AM > /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > /*Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? > /* > /*I'm not getting mold - yet. Don't have teh tank > set up! > /* > /*I'm aware of the AVG issue. It won't let me > renew for one year. I > /*wrote > /*to them, and apparently they didn't deign to answer. > /* > /*Yours, > /*Dora Smith > /*Austin, TX > /*tiggernut24@... > /*----- Original Message ----- > /*From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > /*To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > /*Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:56 PM > /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? > /* > /* > /*Where are you getting mold? > /* > /*Yes, mold goes hand in hand when there is a food source > and moisture so > /*aquariums certainly can be mold farms but most properly > maintained tanks > /*do > /*NOT have mold issues because of the overall ecology of a > tank. > /* > /*On a side note, your AVG antivirus definitions are out of > date since > /*4/4/2008 and you are operating on version 7.5.519 instead > of the more > /*current 7.5.524. I think the program underwent an update > around that time > /*which required a firewall rule modification so the > updated version could > /*access the internet so there is a chance your firewall is > blocking AVG > /*from > /*doing its routine once-a-day update of virus definitions. > If you are not > /*computer literate and everything I just said made you > think, "HUH?", then > /*have someone who is computer literate check out your > computer for > /*infections > /*and/or fix your firewall issue and update your AVG > software and > /*definitions. > /* > /*Lenny Vasbinder > /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > /* > /* > /* > /* > /*-----Original Message----- > /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > /*Behalf Of Dora Smith > /*Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:19 PM > /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > /*Subject: [AquaticLife] Mold in aquariums? > /* > /*Say, dumb question; my housemate doesn't realize that > dirt and germs and > /*mold are actually two sides of the same issue. To this > day, after three > /*years, she doesn't understand why I clean the bird > cage every other day; > /*just insists that birds are nasty. > /* > /*Is there a problem with mold with aquariums? > /* > /*I'm just checking, now. > /* > /*No, she doesn't mean leaking aquariums, I checked. > /* > /*Yours, > /*Dora Smith > /*Austin, TX > /*tiggernut24@... > /* > /* > /* > /*-- > /*Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > /*Checked by AVG. > /*Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - > Release Date: 4/4/2008 > /*6:02 PM > /* > /* > /*No virus found in this outgoing message. > /*Checked by AVG. > /*Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1390 - > Release Date: 4/21/2008 > /*4:23 PM > /* > /* > /*No virus found in this outgoing message. > /*Checked by AVG. > /*Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - > Release Date: 4/22/2008 > /*3:51 PM > /* > /* > /* > /*------------------------------------ > /* > /*Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > /*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> > ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> > /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the > /*SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > /*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. > , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. > /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > /* > /* > /* > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, thanks. > ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> > ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. > , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27313	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Hospital Tank

Hi Paula, I just feed it a small amount everyday. I use 10 gallon tanks also.Its better to go bare bottom,so if you want plants, use the weighted plastic ones. Gravel and natural rock can absorbed medications, making you treatment less effective. Some medications can be absorbed by rock, gravel,or sand can last indefinitely such as Panacure. I keep a bio wheel filter and a sponge filter going on them. If I need to pull the carbon cartridge,I still have the benefit of the wheel. and the sponge filter. I also use the cultured sponge filter when needed for unexpected fry tanks, giving me the ability to start a new tank instantly. I hope this helps. : ) Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paula Brown To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hospital Tank How do ya'll maintain a hospital tank? Once it cycles, do you just put some fish food in there daily to keep it going so that it is always ready in case it is needed? I have an empty ten gallon that I was considering using as a hospital tank but it seems so sad to have it looking nice (with plants) but no fish in it. Paula in Monroe, Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1393 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 8:12 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27314	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Hospital Tank

For me, a quarantine tank is one that has been just hanging around waiting for a purpose. If I need to use it, it is a quick water/salt/bleach wash and water rinse, fill it up with water, add water conditioner, and add a sponge filter sitting in an active tank for such emergency use. Voila, instant cycled tank, ready in 20-30 minutes. Tank is bare bottomed, sitting on a solid surface, and any accoutrements are added, if needed are added from existing tanks, or what I have hanging around for eventual use. The stuff hanging around is given at least a quick rinse if not a full cleaning. The bareness of the tank makes for quick and easy cleaning, and to, hopefully, keep the fish readily available for viewing, while making it feel somewhat comfortable. If more cover is needed, a killie mop or two is provided. Just realized I did not specify a heater, which comes, once again, from something I have already hanging around. Now, I know for those new to the hobby, stuff hanging around can be a rarity. After all my years, and you can ask some of the other, more experienced members who have been around for a while, it becomes a fact of life. If you are new to the hobby, pick up a spare tank, heater, and sponge filter to have hanging around. The only real problem with this, is that the spare tank becomes a permanent home for more fish <g>. Time to go out and get more stuff to have hanging around. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hospital Tank How do ya'll maintain a hospital tank? Once it cycles, do you just put some fish food in there daily to keep it going so that it is always ready in case it is needed? I have an empty ten gallon that I was considering using as a hospital tank but it seems so sad to have it looking nice (with plants) but no fish in it. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27315	From: Noun	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Amazon Plant

Thanks for your response. The depth is about 12 inches (between the gravel and the surface of water). Temperature 27 C (was 26 when before I removed the heater a week ago). Can't provide you with any other parameter results, because in my country they're not available in fish stores. I guess that I lost MANY fish due to this problem. I use two lamps, one is blue and the other is white, each is 36 Watts. Hope you can still give me an advise.. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Amazon Plant Not knowing more about your tank, I think Carmen's initial assessment is probably on point. What are the dimensions of the 20G? There are 20G's that are much deeper than a 10G or 20G long and those taller tanks need much higher lighting capacity so the light will get down to the bottom of the tank. Give us your water parameter test results also... temp, pH, GH, KH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and any others you may have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amazon Plant It sounds to me like inadequate lighting. A standard canopy doesn't produce enough quality light to support plants that have high lighting needs. Increasing the length the light it on won't help, only increasing the intensity, which would mean a new fixture... Carmen On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Noun <n-taweel@... <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > wrote: > > > > > Hello > Noone replied to this message. So here it is again. Hope someone can > help here. > > Hi > I planted my 3 amazons a couple of months ago in my 20 g tank. > As they were too tall and reaching out of the water , I cut the old > leaves as soon as the plants grew new ones. > Now each plant has about 20 leaves, but the problem is that they're > not reaching up, they're spreading themselves horizontally. I don't > know if it's the lightning, I light the tank about 12 hours aday. I > used fertilizers only once (pills planted near the roots). > Another thing, all the old leaves in the buttom are being gauzy. Is > this normal? > Btw, I'm no expert in fish keeping, any detailed advise is welcome. > > Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27316	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Hospital Tank

> How do ya'll maintain a hospital tank? Once it cycles, do you just put some > fish food in there daily to keep it going so that it is always ready in case > it is needed? I have an empty ten gallon that I was considering using as a > hospital tank but it seems so sad to have it looking nice (with plants) but no > fish in it. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan I have a hang on the back filter that's sized for my 10 gal hospital tank running on my 40 in addition to the canister. That way it is always cycled and ready to go. Others use a sponge filter in their main tank. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27317	From: Debra	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Hospital Tank

That is exactly what happened to my last two quarantine tanks. One is now home to baby corydoras and cherry shrimp. The other went brackish on me and is home to the cutest little puffer! :') deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:45:49 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hospital Tank For me, a quarantine tank is one that has been just hanging around waiting for a purpose. If I need to use it, it is a quick water/salt/bleach wash and water rinse, fill it up with water, add water conditioner, and add a sponge filter sitting in an active tank for such emergency use. Voila, instant cycled tank, ready in 20-30 minutes. Tank is bare bottomed, sitting on a solid surface, and any accoutrements are added, if needed are added from existing tanks, or what I have hanging around for eventual use. The stuff hanging around is given at least a quick rinse if not a full cleaning. The bareness of the tank makes for quick and easy cleaning, and to, hopefully, keep the fish readily available for viewing, while making it feel somewhat comfortable. If more cover is needed, a killie mop or two is provided. Just realized I did not specify a heater, which comes, once again, from something I have already hanging around. Now, I know for those new to the hobby, stuff hanging around can be a rarity. After all my years, and you can ask some of the other, more experienced members who have been around for a while, it becomes a fact of life. If you are new to the hobby, pick up a spare tank, heater, and sponge filter to have hanging around. The only real problem with this, is that the spare tank becomes a permanent home for more fish <g>. Time to go out and get more stuff to have hanging around. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hospital Tank How do ya'll maintain a hospital tank? Once it cycles, do you just put some fish food in there daily to keep it going so that it is always ready in case it is needed? I have an empty ten gallon that I was considering using as a hospital tank but it seems so sad to have it looking nice (with plants) but no fish in it. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27318	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Hospital Tank

I keep fish in my 10G hospital, but I also have a spare 20G I keep in the closet empty to use when required. Also a 5G bucket that I use in a pinch with filter and heater. The fish in the 10G hospital tank might be attack victims, tiny fry, juvenile hybrids created in spite of my best efforts at prevention, quarantined new purchases or fish waiting to go to auction. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 4:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hospital Tank > How do ya'll maintain a hospital tank? Once it cycles, do you just put some > fish food in there daily to keep it going so that it is always ready in case > it is needed? I have an empty ten gallon that I was considering using as a > hospital tank but it seems so sad to have it looking nice (with plants) but no > fish in it. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan I have a hang on the back filter that's sized for my 10 gal hospital tank running on my 40 in addition to the canister. That way it is always cycled and ready to go. Others use a sponge filter in their main tank. Dana Rasmussen Seattle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27319	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Hospital Tank

I keep extra filter media in all of my filter reservoirs so when ever I need to set up a Q-tank or H-tank, I simply remove one of the extra pieces of filter media and put it in the filter of the newly set up tank and voila.. cycled for a small bioload. If you are planning on using the 10G planted tank as your Q-tank or H-tank, then you will not really need to cycle it since the plants will usually handle a small bioload. In fact, without fish in there, you'll have to be feeding the plants on a regular basis and you know what they eat... nitrogenous compounds.. among other things. Other people keep a small filter system like a sponge filter running in one of their bigger tanks so the sponge stays cycled for a small bioload and then move the sponge filter to the new tanks but I find it simpler to just keep a couple of extra filter floss pads in the reservoirs of my other filter systems. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 2:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hospital Tank How do ya'll maintain a hospital tank? Once it cycles, do you just put some fish food in there daily to keep it going so that it is always ready in case it is needed? I have an empty ten gallon that I was considering using as a hospital tank but it seems so sad to have it looking nice (with plants) but no fish in it. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27320	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that "one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell it on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it but provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. Since I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is supposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. Now, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh bacteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must have nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and only contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't say if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I didn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people are debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also the point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me the bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only possible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will do what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to me sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people would buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to buy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling me it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is suspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains nitrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it contained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in Europe. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell or market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently confident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying the bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the right store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that of the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new formulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec or his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that in another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. He's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not wanting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. http://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have clicked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it from his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you eventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&id=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to order. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad company, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've always been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking up a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab kit; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough companies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I asked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for Tetra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to say whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as high end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27321	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

List owner, I am asking your permission to cross post messages from this group. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell t on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it ut provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. ince I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is upposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. ow, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh acteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must ave nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and nly contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't ay if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I idn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people re debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also he point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me he bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only ossible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will o what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to e sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people ould buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to uy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling e it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is uspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains itrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it ontained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in urope. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell r market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently onfident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying he bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the ight store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that f the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new ormulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec r his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that n another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. e's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not anting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. ttp://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have licked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it rom his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you ventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&id=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to rder. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad ompany, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've lways been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking p a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab it; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough ompanies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I sked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for etra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to ay whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as igh end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, ora Smith ustin, TX iggernut24@... -- nternal Virus Database is out-of-date. hecked by AVG. ersion: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 M ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 7:49 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell t on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it ut provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. ince I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is upposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. ow, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh acteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must ave nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and nly contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't ay if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I idn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people re debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also he point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me he bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only ossible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will o what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to e sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people ould buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to uy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling e it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is uspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains itrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it ontained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in urope. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell r market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently onfident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying he bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the ight store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that f the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new ormulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec r his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that n another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. e's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not anting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. ttp://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have licked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it rom his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you ventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&id=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to rder. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad ompany, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've lways been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking p a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab it; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough ompanies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I sked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for etra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to ay whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as igh end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, ora Smith ustin, TX iggernut24@... -- nternal Virus Database is out-of-date. hecked by AVG. ersion: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 M ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27322	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one strain to fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to eat the ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the third strain comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK and I do know that a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products DID NOT WORK. I'm sure his new product, "One & Only", has the same bacteria as Bio-Spira, although it does seem that they've developed a way for it to last a few months at room temp now. See the FAQ's on http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com for more info. U.S. Patents, generally are public record so if you really wanted to see what was in there, you could probably find the patent application information somewhere online. Unless it's something new and proprietary like the process that allows the nitrifying bacteria to stay alive at room temp without ammonia and oxygen.... I'll still have to see it to believe it though. Here is one of Dr. Tim's recent Patents issued 9/11/2007 but applied for in 2003 if you want to do some detailed reading and or search this site for more of his inventions. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7267816-description.html Here's my Google search which found 3,500 hits about "One & Only". http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=The+One+and+Only+Dr.+Ho vanec including a PodCast that came up at the top so you might want to listen to it. Once again, I'd tend to believe in Dr. Hovenac over the Tetra folks any day!!!! Dr. Hovenac probably limits communications about how the new product is made due to legal issues involving his split from Marineland and their decision to get in bed with Tetra. Without seeing any of the issues going on between them, I'd be more likely to believe that Dr. Hovenac's product works where I wouldn't have that same trust with Tetra products. Although many of Tetra's products are probably fine, they also push that stuff, Easy Balance, that tells people they don't have to do water changes but once every six months and the research I did on Easy Balance showed it to be a mix of chemicals, acids and bases and formaldehyde. I think I once jokingly summarized it as being something that kills all your fish but at least the formaldehyde keeps them preserved so they appear to be alive as the filter moves the water around. ;-) Another article I read about Easy Balance had a guppy tank where they guppy didn't breed... and anything that can stop guppy from breeding can't be good for our fish. Dr. Tim is definitely WAY AHEAD of Marineland and Tetra. His products are available from http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com which is one of the very well respected web sites out there. As far as Dr. Tim being a whack job??? Well, most very intelligent people are whack jobs. I know I am and most of my friends and family will verify it. :-D The cause is that we can't have "normal" conversations with the rest of the world so it drives us crazy. People are still amazed at how fast I can type with my nose... over 60wpm... since they won't let me out of this darn straight jacket! Not to mention holding down the shift key when needed but I won't explain how I do that. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that "one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell it on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it but provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. Since I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is supposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. Now, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh bacteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must have nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and only contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't say if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I didn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people are debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also the point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me the bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only possible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will do what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to me sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people would buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to buy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling me it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is suspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains nitrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it contained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in Europe. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell or market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently confident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying the bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the right store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that of the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new formulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec or his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that in another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. He's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not wanting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. http://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have clicked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it from his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you eventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&i d=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to order. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad company, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've always been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking up a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab kit; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough companies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I asked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for Tetra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to say whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as high end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27323	From: Chris	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Brown algae

I seem to have a brown algae issue.......its steming from the filter! I've got a pleco, but he can't reach the filter and he's not eating it off the plastic plants....I'm not sure how to get rid of it! I change 3- 4 gallons out of the 16g tank once a week and wipe off any brown algae with hot water and the tank designated scrubber... All the tests are within normal range...although I've just switched from the strips to the API master test kit, and I'm still getting used to using it... Anything I can do about the brown algae?? ( I know the pleco is going to outgrow the tank, but he's only 3 or 4 inches long right now) there are also 4 platy and one african dwarf frog in this tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27324	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

You've got my permission to cross post my posts, and welcome. I think that's actually up to who made the posts and not the list owner. Not that I take copyright as seriously as some. It has to do with international treaty, and foreign copyright laws that specify that if I send you an e-mail saying I"m going to kill you, it's solely up to me if you share the e-mail with anybody. As far as I'm concerned, if I wrote it, it's out there, and if you wrote it, it's also out there. :) I just checked in my sent folder, though - my most recent post on the subject didn't have anyone else's post still on it. Not even an earlier post of my own. Reason why - I bcc'd Dr. Tim himself. If he wants to go after me for calling him a wack job let him, but I didn't share Lenny's views! (Pray God he would actually give that level of publicity to his state of mind, but then, clearly he's got no business sense.) Boy, I'd have been upset if I'd done that. If Dr. Tim can't see how he's coming across, he isn't going to. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. List owner, I am asking your permission to cross post messages from this group. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell t on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it ut provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. ince I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is upposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. ow, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh acteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must ave nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and nly contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't ay if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I idn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people re debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also he point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me he bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only ossible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will o what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to e sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people ould buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to uy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling e it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is uspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains itrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it ontained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in urope. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell r market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently onfident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying he bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the ight store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that f the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new ormulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec r his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that n another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. e's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not anting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. ttp://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have licked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it rom his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you ventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&id=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to rder. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad ompany, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've lways been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking p a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab it; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough ompanies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I sked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for etra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to ay whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as igh end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, ora Smith ustin, TX iggernut24@... -- nternal Virus Database is out-of-date. hecked by AVG. ersion: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 M ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , ..·´Ż`·..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , ..·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 7:49 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell t on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it ut provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. ince I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is upposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. ow, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh acteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must ave nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and nly contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't ay if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I idn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people re debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also he point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me he bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only ossible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will o what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to e sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people ould buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to uy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling e it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is uspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains itrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it ontained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in urope. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell r market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently onfident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying he bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the ight store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that f the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new ormulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec r his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that n another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. e's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not anting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. ttp://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have licked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it rom his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you ventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&id=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to rder. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad ompany, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've lways been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking p a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab it; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough ompanies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I sked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for etra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to ay whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as igh end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, ora Smith ustin, TX iggernut24@... -- nternal Virus Database is out-of-date. hecked by AVG. ersion: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 M ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , ..·´Ż`·..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , ..·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27325	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Brown algae

If it's actually "brown algae", it's probably diatoms which isn't actually an algae. The diatoms you are likely seeing live off of silicates that are more common at higher levels in newly set up tanks. The silicates leach from the silicone on new tanks but also from some substrates and decorations. How long has your tank been set up? If the "brown algae" is more like a dust and is easily wiped off, then it's more likely to be diatoms. Algae eating fish will not readily eat diatoms although they may scrape it off in their quest for normal algae. Here's an article all about "Brown Algae" aka Diatoms. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown algae I seem to have a brown algae issue.......its steming from the filter! I've got a pleco, but he can't reach the filter and he's not eating it off the plastic plants....I'm not sure how to get rid of it! I change 3- 4 gallons out of the 16g tank once a week and wipe off any brown algae with hot water and the tank designated scrubber... All the tests are within normal range...although I've just switched from the strips to the API master test kit, and I'm still getting used to using it... Anything I can do about the brown algae?? ( I know the pleco is going to outgrow the tank, but he's only 3 or 4 inches long right now) there are also 4 platy and one african dwarf frog in this tank. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27326	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

I'll start with your pea question first. I never really called it "shelling" the pea but I guess to get the actual peas from the pod, that could be considered "shelling". I would liken it more to skinning the pea. Now, to get to the pea "meat" (as I call it), the best way to get it without squishing it is to set up one pea on a clean cutting board with plenty of lighting.. kind of like an operating room. Then using a sterile scalpel, gently cut through the skin of the pea. Then get two sterile tweezers and gently use the tweezers to peel the skin away from the pea "meat" until you have exposed all of the "meat", then it is ready to feed to your fish. Just kidding ... lol.. just pinch the pea from one side and the skin will split and the "meat" will come out, usually in two halves. If you have larger fish, just drop the halves into the tank. When I had smaller fish, I would use a fork or my finger and smoosh it a little and then drop it in the tank. As to your aggressive fish... whether bettas or any other kind.. some fish just have nasty attitudes.. kind of like people. Male bettas certainly have a propensity to like to be alone or have their space if in a large enough tank and they usually don't like other "pretty" fish. Some male bettas get along fine with things like apple snails or mystery snails but other bettas will terrorize them. Remember that Bettas were at one time called Siamese Fighting Fish so they probably have a propensity to be ornery and they are carnivores so they will eat baby snails or any other meaty food item so make sure the Betta is getting it's fair share of food in the tanks with fast moving fish like WCMM's or the WCMM's will start to look like T-bone steak to a hungry betta. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta Question Background: I have many planted tanks, some big/some small, and in my smaller ones (none smaller than two gallon), I keep male Betta's (of course one Betta in each tank). My one male Betta lives in a 10 gallon with two small cory's and two White Clouds. In the past couple of weeks, he started terrorizing the White Clouds (leaving the cory's alone). I purchased three more White Clouds for that tank and he seems to have backed off on his aggression - maybe he feels intimadated now!<G> I have another male Betta in a two gallon with two White Clouds - he doesn't bother them at all. I have another five gallon Eclipse tank with a male CrownTail in it. He is so handsome but tends to hang around in the plants so I barely get to see him. I added some more plants from my 55 gallon recently and evidently transfered some snails along with them. Now he is terrorizing one particular snail. He keeps mouthing it (it is too big for his mouth) until it lets free of the side of the tank and then he bops it around the tank like a soccer ball! I had hoped to add a couple Otto's in there and maybe three White Clouds but now after seeing his behavior with this snail, I wonder if he won't just change his aggression to them? I hate having this nice looking tank with just him in it, but it just seems like he is an aggressive guy. I have another two gallon tank I could transfer him to but I would feel bad moving him from a five gallon to a two gallon - I know, I am transferring emotions! Are there any "toys" you can buy/make for fish tanks? He really seems to be having fun tormenting this snail (and I am starting to feel bad for the snail and I don't like snails!). I have gave him shelled peas but he just eats them. And speaking of peas, when they say to "shell" it, do they mean from the pod or the actual pea itself? Those "shells" on the actual pea can be hard to get off without squishing it. I am cycling another 10 gallon right now (fishless) and had wanted to get another male Betta for that tank but now I have changed my mind. I know that they are fighting fish but I guess I didn't know that they would fight any fish! A few weeks ago, I purchased two female Betta's for my 55 gallon community tank. Now I notice one of them is harrassing some of my Zebra Danio's (long and short finned). Luckily there is enough room and plants to run and hide in there. These Betta's are gorgeous but are that really that nasty in general? Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27327	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: "One & Only Nitrifying Bateria" (was: Tetra safestart to begin sales

Hi Dora, I've slowly been browsing through all of the new info on "One & Only" and here's an article about Dr. Tim Hovenac being one of the 25 people to watch in 2008 according to Pet Product News.com ... --------------------- http://www.petproductnews.com/top_stories/25-to-watch-in-2008.aspx Timothy Hovanec, Ph.D.: After nearly 17 years as chief scientific officer at Marineland and a former multi-term president of the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council, Dr. Hovanec is back with his own company, Dr. Tim's Aquatics. Hovanec has bought the former Marineland research labs in Moorpark, Calif., closed in 2007 by Spectrum Brands/United Pet Group as part of its ongoing reorganization, and the non-compete clause of his separation agreement with Spectrum ended shortly before the Backer show this past fall. ------------------- According to this article, Dr. Tim actually bought the research lab... probably the one he did much of his work at... from Marineland after it was closed down when they merged with United Pet Groups.. aka Tetra. Judging from the "buzz" that's starting to happen in many fish keeping forums like this one, I have a feeling this article about him being one of the top 25 to watch will prove to be accurate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. You've got my permission to cross post my posts, and welcome. I think that's actually up to who made the posts and not the list owner. Not that I take copyright as seriously as some. It has to do with international treaty, and foreign copyright laws that specify that if I send you an e-mail saying I"m going to kill you, it's solely up to me if you share the e-mail with anybody. As far as I'm concerned, if I wrote it, it's out there, and if you wrote it, it's also out there. :) I just checked in my sent folder, though - my most recent post on the subject didn't have anyone else's post still on it. Not even an earlier post of my own. Reason why - I bcc'd Dr. Tim himself. If he wants to go after me for calling him a wack job let him, but I didn't share Lenny's views! (Pray God he would actually give that level of publicity to his state of mind, but then, clearly he's got no business sense.) Boy, I'd have been upset if I'd done that. If Dr. Tim can't see how he's coming across, he isn't going to. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. List owner, I am asking your permission to cross post messages from this group. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell t on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it ut provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. ince I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is upposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. ow, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh acteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must ave nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and nly contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't ay if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I idn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people re debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also he point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me he bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only ossible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will o what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to e sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people ould buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to uy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling e it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is uspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains itrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it ontained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in urope. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell r market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently onfident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying he bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the ight store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that f the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new ormulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec r his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that n another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. e's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not anting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. ttp://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html <ttp://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html> By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have licked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it rom his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html <http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html> Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you ventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&i d=0705310 <http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987& id=0705310> Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to rder. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad ompany, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've lways been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking p a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab it; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough ompanies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I sked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for etra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to ay whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as igh end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, ora Smith ustin, TX iggernut24@... <mailto:iggernut24%40yahoo.com> -- nternal Virus Database is out-of-date. hecked by AVG. ersion: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 M ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ...´Ż`...><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ...´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 7:49 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell t on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it ut provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. ince I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is upposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. ow, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh acteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must ave nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and nly contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't ay if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I idn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people re debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also he point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me he bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only ossible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will o what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to e sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people ould buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to uy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling e it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is uspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains itrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it ontained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in urope. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell r market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently onfident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying he bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the ight store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that f the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new ormulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec r his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that n another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. e's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not anting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. ttp://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html <ttp://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html> By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have licked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it rom his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html <http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html> Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you ventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&i d=0705310 <http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987& id=0705310> Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to rder. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad ompany, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've lways been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking p a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab it; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough ompanies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I sked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for etra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to ay whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as igh end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, ora Smith ustin, TX iggernut24@... <mailto:iggernut24%40yahoo.com> -- nternal Virus Database is out-of-date. hecked by AVG. ersion: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 M ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ...´Ż`...><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ...´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27328	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

Not sure I've not seen it, but what's the url? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions "Fishless Cycling" is a procedure where we use plain household ammonia (no scents, surfactants, soaps, etc... just plain ammonia available at Ace Hardware and many other places) and add it to the new tank up to 4-5ppm and check it once a day and add more as needed to keep it up to 4-5ppm until the tank is cycling the ammonia through the nitrite and then to nitrate compounds. My A to Z of fish keeping page has a link to a full article on Fishless Cycling with detailed instructions. This process takes a few weeks and up to six weeks but can be much quicker (7-10 days) if the new filter media is seeded with some filter material or gravel borrowed from a healthy tank. Fishless cycling keeps from having to put the fish through the arduous process which can permanently damage and/or kill them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27329	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

Actually after visiting the fish store I'm no longer sure I want these particular fish - their flashy stripes are too flashy! I'm looking into other small hardy fish. I want medium dark plain fishy looking with subtle color and a little bit of bright won't hurt - but not that much bright. Length not over 2 inches. Not of the < 6.5 ph or hard to keep variety, and want to avoid needs 80 degrees. Fish store suggested otys in addition to pygmy corys. One eats food scraps and the other algae. She looked at me when she heard that pygmy corys must be kept in groups of atleast five - suggested two or three of each for a ten gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Neon Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html Glowlight Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.html Black Neon - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_herbertaxelrodi.html As you can see from their scientific names (the last part of the URL's), they are different species, although all from the same Characin family. I've seen forum posts and articles about inter-species schooling but it's not something that is guaranteed nor should it be part of your planning UNLESS you have an agreement with your fish store that you can bring back fish that do not school and swap them out for ones of the same species. The Black Neon's get bigger than the Neon Tetra's and Glowlight Tetra's. Since you are already dealing with a small tank where you will be stocking it completely to the limits, you should stick with the smaller species to help avoid an overstocking situation. I've never kept Neon's or Glowlights so I do not know if they will inter-school or not so maybe someone else in the group will have an opinion on this or you could just try it and see if they do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Question. Do I have to get for instance 5-6 neon tetras, or could I get 3 neon tetras and 3 black neon tetras, or 3 glowlight tetras and three black neon tetras? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Since they only grow to around an inch, you could have five of them and a school of 5-6 neon tetras and if you go with some live plants to help the overall ecology of the tank, you shouldn't have any overstocking problems. For more ideas about 10G tank stocking, go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side in the labels section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions which will give you lots of other ideas you might want to consider. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27330	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Doctors Fosters and Smith isn't as high quality as one would tend to suspect. For instance, you know that bird seed they sell in bulk? It's the dustiest stuff I have ever encountered. I threw it straight in the trash. I don't remember if that was my only bad experience, but I don't often buy from them any more. Anyhow. I'm not buying it until he says it contains nitrospira. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. What a coincidence... I just got my regular "Sale" email from DrsFosterSmith and what was one of the three featured items? Dr. Tim's One & Only... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18986&ref=4610 &subref=AA&cmpid=E-_-FS-_-42308-_-P5 Only $11.99 for a 2 oz. bottle but the S&H is $19.99 since DrsFosterSmith is shipping it overnight and in a cooler pack to keep it refrigerated or at least cool since Dr. Tim's website mentions that temps over 95F could cause product failure. It's being advertised to be used exactly like Bio-Spira... pour the entire bottle in your tank one day and add fish the next day. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:45 AM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Below my sig is the reply I got from Marineland a few weeks ago when inquiring about Bio-Spira. I see that my email reply references a product called "Start Right" but since there was already a product called Start Right on the market, I presumed they decided to change the name to Safe Start since the timeline worked with your announcement and the name was so similar to the email info I got from Marineland... although the reply was signed by someone with a Tetra.net email address. I'm sorry to see Marineland get in bed with Tetra as I always considered them to be on opposite ends of the quality scale with Marineland being on the good end. I also notice that your email has "United Pet Group" and my email reply also has that name in the sig. You mention "The One And Only" product but I did a Google and do not see anything about it. You mention from "the guy whose research ... is the basis of bio-spira" which I'll presume to be Dr. Timothy Hovanec and I would trust him over nearly anyone else or their products. His team's research which led to the "invention" of the Bio-Wheel, Bio-Spira and many other "new" products, was peer reviewed by several other independent sources and the Bio-Spira process was granted a patent and I know that it actually worked where none of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products worked. I tried several of them and not a single one actually cycled a tank where Bio-Spira actually did. I just did a second Google with more defined search terms and have found some links about One & Only which apparently is being distributed by Dr. Timothy Hovanec. Do you have any links to articles or threads that would make you believe this is not a good product? Here is Dr. Tim's apparently new website with info about "One & Only"... http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Helpful_hints/OneandOnlyFAQs/OneandOnlyFAQs.ht ml Apparently his product doesn't have to be refrigerated either but will only last six months at room temp whereas if refrigerated, will last for a year. The FAQ page details how this works. Maybe the new Tetra product will work the same way. I'll still trust Dr. Hovanec over nearly any other company's claims out there. Apparently, there was some kind of major shake-down at Marineland for Dr. Hovanec to go out on his own with his own new product and then Marineland opting to join up with Tetra and releasing a non-refrigerated product (which historically and scientifically do not work... although Dr. Tim's new product looks like it doesn't have to be refrigerated although it looks like they recommend that it be kept refrigerated). I don't have time to read through all of the links I found in my second Google search right now but I'll read through them and add to my recent blog about Bio-Spira. Thanks for the heads up on One & Only. I read and post on several forums and yours is the first I've seen on this product but if Dr. Hovanec is putting his name on it, I'll bet it works see he may have held the patent on the process for Bio-Spira and Marineland owned the name so when they split up, he had to pick a new name. I'll know more after I read all the new info in my search. I guess I'll have to set up several 10G tanks and fishless cycle each of them using the various products to see how they each work. I've been hoping someone else would do this Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------- Hello, We are relaunching bio-spira. It is in a new package and reformulated. It will no longer need to be refrigerated, and hopefully, soon on every store shelf across the nation. The freshwater version will be branded Tetra and called start right, while the saltwater version will be branded Instant Ocean and still be called Bio-Spira. They held off on adding it to the webpage because of this change. Regards, Robert Huber United Pet Group, Aquatics Div. Senior Consumer Relations Specialist Robert.Huber@... <mailto:Robert.Huber%40Tetra.net> 1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 -------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Are you sure? I think that maybe you mean a different product called The One and Only, made by teh guy whose research is the foundation of the three bacteria formula in bio-spira? I'd not buy from him - he won't even confirm that the third bacteria is in his product! Someone on another list thought that that product had been substituted for the reformulated bio-spira and that is why Marineland stopped carrying the biospira. I'd be rather amazed if reformulated biospira had become a different product, particularly since safestart has been sold in Europe for some time and they're swearing by it over there. I've an idea that it does make a similar claim about not needing refrigeration. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. This is supposed to be the newly formulated Bio-Spira that is now going to be sold as an off the shelf product. I won't waste my money on it any time soon since I don't really like Tetra products all that much anyhow due to some of the things they promote. I'll wait to see what others say when they try it but I have a feeling it's not going to be any better than any of the other off-the-shelf so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle products. The science simply doesn't support the ability of nitrifying bacteria to be able to live in a bottle on a shelf... without a source of ammonia and oxygen. I think that if it really was going to work as good as the original Bio-Spira, Marineland would have kept the name and benefitted from the good public awareness about Bio-Spira but instead they sold the distribution rights to Tetra and changed the name. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Results of query to the company: Hello, It actually hasn't been distributed to stores here in the US yet. That is scheduled for distribution the week of May 19th. Thank you, United Pet Group -----Original Message----- From: tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> [mailto:tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ] Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:14 PM To: US Consumer Support Subject: TW -- General Contact Us Request A Contact Us email has been sent from the Tetra Site. Here is the information. Email: tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27331	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

You need to look at fish that stay closer to one inch which limits your choices. In a 10G, you would only want 10 small 1" fish and you are planning for five pygmy corys so your other 5-6 fish should be in the lower 1" range. If you went with 5-6 2" fish, you would be overstocked by 50% by even the minimalist of standards. If you don't like the ones you were first interested in, go to my blog and on the right side, there is a link to 10G Stocking Suggestions under the labels section. Read over that article by Hailey and you'll get many other suggestions. Another fish that stays very small is the Galaxy Raspbora so you might want to see if your LFS has them. I wouldn't go with both oto's and pygmy corys since they are both mostly bottom dwellers. Your first plan to go with the pygmy corys (bottom dwellers) and a small school of small tetras would be a more visually active tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Actually after visiting the fish store I'm no longer sure I want these particular fish - their flashy stripes are too flashy! I'm looking into other small hardy fish. I want medium dark plain fishy looking with subtle color and a little bit of bright won't hurt - but not that much bright. Length not over 2 inches. Not of the < 6.5 ph or hard to keep variety, and want to avoid needs 80 degrees. Fish store suggested otys in addition to pygmy corys. One eats food scraps and the other algae. She looked at me when she heard that pygmy corys must be kept in groups of atleast five - suggested two or three of each for a ten gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Neon Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html Glowlight Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.html Black Neon - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_herbertaxelrodi.html As you can see from their scientific names (the last part of the URL's), they are different species, although all from the same Characin family. I've seen forum posts and articles about inter-species schooling but it's not something that is guaranteed nor should it be part of your planning UNLESS you have an agreement with your fish store that you can bring back fish that do not school and swap them out for ones of the same species. The Black Neon's get bigger than the Neon Tetra's and Glowlight Tetra's. Since you are already dealing with a small tank where you will be stocking it completely to the limits, you should stick with the smaller species to help avoid an overstocking situation. I've never kept Neon's or Glowlights so I do not know if they will inter-school or not so maybe someone else in the group will have an opinion on this or you could just try it and see if they do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Question. Do I have to get for instance 5-6 neon tetras, or could I get 3 neon tetras and 3 black neon tetras, or 3 glowlight tetras and three black neon tetras? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Since they only grow to around an inch, you could have five of them and a school of 5-6 neon tetras and if you go with some live plants to help the overall ecology of the tank, you shouldn't have any overstocking problems. For more ideas about 10G tank stocking, go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side in the labels section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions which will give you lots of other ideas you might want to consider. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27332	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

Paula, I have a male betta in each of my 55 gallon community tanks. They both do fine with the other fish. As a matter of fact I had to move a gourami out because he was picking on the betta. I know those two types shouldn't be mixed but I had a tank start splitting and had no choice. After a new tank finished cycling I moved the gourami. As for play thing, I've heard they play with marbles but mine never have. My sister will put a very small ball of aluminum foil in with elephant fish and they play with that. Maybe a betta would too. Oh, I found out the female bettas were a lot more aggressive in community tanks. Maybe this helps, some.. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Paula Brown Sent: Wed 4/23/2008 12:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta Question Background: I have many planted tanks, some big/some small, and in my smaller ones (none smaller than two gallon), I keep male Betta's (of course one Betta in each tank). My one male Betta lives in a 10 gallon with two small cory's and two White Clouds. In the past couple of weeks, he started terrorizing the White Clouds (leaving the cory's alone). I purchased three more White Clouds for that tank and he seems to have backed off on his aggression - maybe he feels intimadated now!<G> I have another male Betta in a two gallon with two White Clouds - he doesn't bother them at all. I have another five gallon Eclipse tank with a male CrownTail in it. He is so handsome but tends to hang around in the plants so I barely get to see him. I added some more plants from my 55 gallon recently and evidently transfered some snails along with them. Now he is terrorizing one particular snail. He keeps mouthing it (it is too big for his mouth) until it lets free of the side of the tank and then he bops it around the tank like a soccer ball! I had hoped to add a couple Otto's in there and maybe three White Clouds but now after seeing his behavior with this snail, I wonder if he won't just change his aggression to them? I hate having this nice looking tank with just him in it, but it just seems like he is an aggressive guy. I have another two gallon tank I could transfer him to but I would feel bad moving him from a five gallon to a two gallon - I know, I am transferring emotions! Are there any "toys" you can buy/make for fish tanks? He really seems to be having fun tormenting this snail (and I am starting to feel bad for the snail and I don't like snails!). I have gave him shelled peas but he just eats them. And speaking of peas, when they say to "shell" it, do they mean from the pod or the actual pea itself? Those "shells" on the actual pea can be hard to get off without squishing it. I am cycling another 10 gallon right now (fishless) and had wanted to get another male Betta for that tank but now I have changed my mind. I know that they are fighting fish but I guess I didn't know that they would fight any fish! A few weeks ago, I purchased two female Betta's for my 55 gallon community tank. Now I notice one of them is harrassing some of my Zebra Danio's (long and short finned). Luckily there is enough room and plants to run and hide in there. These Betta's are gorgeous but are that really that nasty in general? Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27333	From: Kate	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Paludarium questions

I have a vivarium that I decided to turn into a paludarium and just had a couple questions. First here is a description of the setup. The tank is a 10g aquarium which has been tipped on it's side so that the top of the aquarium is now the front. A piece of glass six inches tall, is siliconed to the bottom half of the front and a similar one at the top with a piece in the middle that flips out for access. The top piece has a circle cut out and covered with screen for ventilation. It's a bit like a homemade version of the exo-terra setups. The back and the left side are covered in cork bark and have branches, bromeliads, creeping fig, and some type of philodendron attached. The cork bark would reach down into the water about two inches. Do you think it can be partly submerged or do I need to cut it back? Do any of you have a favorite submersible nano filters? I plan to use Java Fern, Java Moss and possibly Anubias since the light will be far from the water. Any other thoughts on easy, low light plants? Thanks for reading, Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27334	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: Brown algae

Two questions. First, is there supposed to be a way to get rid of these diatoms, or are they ordinarly not harmful? Should she replace her filter, or part of it, to get rid of them? Second, surely diatoms can be distinguished from algae under a microscope? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown algae If it's actually "brown algae", it's probably diatoms which isn't actually an algae. The diatoms you are likely seeing live off of silicates that are more common at higher levels in newly set up tanks. The silicates leach from the silicone on new tanks but also from some substrates and decorations. How long has your tank been set up? If the "brown algae" is more like a dust and is easily wiped off, then it's more likely to be diatoms. Algae eating fish will not readily eat diatoms although they may scrape it off in their quest for normal algae. Here's an article all about "Brown Algae" aka Diatoms. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown algae I seem to have a brown algae issue.......its steming from the filter! I've got a pleco, but he can't reach the filter and he's not eating it off the plastic plants....I'm not sure how to get rid of it! I change 3- 4 gallons out of the 16g tank once a week and wipe off any brown algae with hot water and the tank designated scrubber... All the tests are within normal range...although I've just switched from the strips to the API master test kit, and I'm still getting used to using it... Anything I can do about the brown algae?? ( I know the pleco is going to outgrow the tank, but he's only 3 or 4 inches long right now) there are also 4 platy and one african dwarf frog in this tank. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27335	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

Lenny, I had actually asked her about getting some shrimp to eat the algae, and she doesn't sell them. Chuckle. Should I get the shrimp, and where would you suggest I get them from? Might have to get them online, which I should think poses difficulties. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions You need to look at fish that stay closer to one inch which limits your choices. In a 10G, you would only want 10 small 1" fish and you are planning for five pygmy corys so your other 5-6 fish should be in the lower 1" range. If you went with 5-6 2" fish, you would be overstocked by 50% by even the minimalist of standards. If you don't like the ones you were first interested in, go to my blog and on the right side, there is a link to 10G Stocking Suggestions under the labels section. Read over that article by Hailey and you'll get many other suggestions. Another fish that stays very small is the Galaxy Raspbora so you might want to see if your LFS has them. I wouldn't go with both oto's and pygmy corys since they are both mostly bottom dwellers. Your first plan to go with the pygmy corys (bottom dwellers) and a small school of small tetras would be a more visually active tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Actually after visiting the fish store I'm no longer sure I want these particular fish - their flashy stripes are too flashy! I'm looking into other small hardy fish. I want medium dark plain fishy looking with subtle color and a little bit of bright won't hurt - but not that much bright. Length not over 2 inches. Not of the < 6.5 ph or hard to keep variety, and want to avoid needs 80 degrees. Fish store suggested otys in addition to pygmy corys. One eats food scraps and the other algae. She looked at me when she heard that pygmy corys must be kept in groups of atleast five - suggested two or three of each for a ten gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Neon Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html Glowlight Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.html Black Neon - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_herbertaxelrodi.html As you can see from their scientific names (the last part of the URL's), they are different species, although all from the same Characin family. I've seen forum posts and articles about inter-species schooling but it's not something that is guaranteed nor should it be part of your planning UNLESS you have an agreement with your fish store that you can bring back fish that do not school and swap them out for ones of the same species. The Black Neon's get bigger than the Neon Tetra's and Glowlight Tetra's. Since you are already dealing with a small tank where you will be stocking it completely to the limits, you should stick with the smaller species to help avoid an overstocking situation. I've never kept Neon's or Glowlights so I do not know if they will inter-school or not so maybe someone else in the group will have an opinion on this or you could just try it and see if they do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Question. Do I have to get for instance 5-6 neon tetras, or could I get 3 neon tetras and 3 black neon tetras, or 3 glowlight tetras and three black neon tetras? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Since they only grow to around an inch, you could have five of them and a school of 5-6 neon tetras and if you go with some live plants to help the overall ecology of the tank, you shouldn't have any overstocking problems. For more ideas about 10G tank stocking, go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side in the labels section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions which will give you lots of other ideas you might want to consider. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ..´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ..´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27336	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Lenny, I think you're probably confused about Bio-Spira and Tetra. Tetra is coming out with safestart- it's a different product. Or is it I'm who is confused - Marineland is going to sell the Tetra product, safestart, instead of Bio-Spira. I'm literally not following you - what would legal issues with Marineland over a different product have to do with whether Dr. Tim tells us whether his own new product contains nitrospira? If the legal problem in question is that Marineland won't be selling Dr. Tim's products at all, that has absolutely no effect on what he decides to tell people about his product. I sure wish Marineland was going to sell safestart this month instead of next. If that's the gist of what you're saying. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:58 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one strain to fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to eat the ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the third strain comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK and I do know that a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products DID NOT WORK. I'm sure his new product, "One & Only", has the same bacteria as Bio-Spira, although it does seem that they've developed a way for it to last a few months at room temp now. See the FAQ's on http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com for more info. U.S. Patents, generally are public record so if you really wanted to see what was in there, you could probably find the patent application information somewhere online. Unless it's something new and proprietary like the process that allows the nitrifying bacteria to stay alive at room temp without ammonia and oxygen.... I'll still have to see it to believe it though. Here is one of Dr. Tim's recent Patents issued 9/11/2007 but applied for in 2003 if you want to do some detailed reading and or search this site for more of his inventions. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7267816-description.html Here's my Google search which found 3,500 hits about "One & Only". http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=The+One+and+Only+Dr.+Ho vanec including a PodCast that came up at the top so you might want to listen to it. Once again, I'd tend to believe in Dr. Hovenac over the Tetra folks any day!!!! Dr. Hovenac probably limits communications about how the new product is made due to legal issues involving his split from Marineland and their decision to get in bed with Tetra. Without seeing any of the issues going on between them, I'd be more likely to believe that Dr. Hovenac's product works where I wouldn't have that same trust with Tetra products. Although many of Tetra's products are probably fine, they also push that stuff, Easy Balance, that tells people they don't have to do water changes but once every six months and the research I did on Easy Balance showed it to be a mix of chemicals, acids and bases and formaldehyde. I think I once jokingly summarized it as being something that kills all your fish but at least the formaldehyde keeps them preserved so they appear to be alive as the filter moves the water around. ;-) Another article I read about Easy Balance had a guppy tank where they guppy didn't breed... and anything that can stop guppy from breeding can't be good for our fish. Dr. Tim is definitely WAY AHEAD of Marineland and Tetra. His products are available from http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com which is one of the very well respected web sites out there. As far as Dr. Tim being a whack job??? Well, most very intelligent people are whack jobs. I know I am and most of my friends and family will verify it. :-D The cause is that we can't have "normal" conversations with the rest of the world so it drives us crazy. People are still amazed at how fast I can type with my nose... over 60wpm... since they won't let me out of this darn straight jacket! Not to mention holding down the shift key when needed but I won't explain how I do that. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that "one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell it on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it but provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. Since I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is supposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. Now, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh bacteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must have nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and only contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't say if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I didn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people are debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also the point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me the bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only possible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will do what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to me sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people would buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to buy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling me it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is suspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains nitrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it contained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in Europe. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell or market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently confident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying the bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the right store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that of the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new formulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec or his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that in another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. He's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not wanting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. http://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have clicked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it from his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you eventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&i d=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to order. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad company, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've always been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking up a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab kit; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough companies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I asked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for Tetra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to say whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as high end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27337	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

Found it! Had it before, but don't know where... got the list of 10 gallon fish, too. Had that as well, don't know where it went. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions You need to look at fish that stay closer to one inch which limits your choices. In a 10G, you would only want 10 small 1" fish and you are planning for five pygmy corys so your other 5-6 fish should be in the lower 1" range. If you went with 5-6 2" fish, you would be overstocked by 50% by even the minimalist of standards. If you don't like the ones you were first interested in, go to my blog and on the right side, there is a link to 10G Stocking Suggestions under the labels section. Read over that article by Hailey and you'll get many other suggestions. Another fish that stays very small is the Galaxy Raspbora so you might want to see if your LFS has them. I wouldn't go with both oto's and pygmy corys since they are both mostly bottom dwellers. Your first plan to go with the pygmy corys (bottom dwellers) and a small school of small tetras would be a more visually active tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Actually after visiting the fish store I'm no longer sure I want these particular fish - their flashy stripes are too flashy! I'm looking into other small hardy fish. I want medium dark plain fishy looking with subtle color and a little bit of bright won't hurt - but not that much bright. Length not over 2 inches. Not of the < 6.5 ph or hard to keep variety, and want to avoid needs 80 degrees. Fish store suggested otys in addition to pygmy corys. One eats food scraps and the other algae. She looked at me when she heard that pygmy corys must be kept in groups of atleast five - suggested two or three of each for a ten gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Neon Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html Glowlight Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.html Black Neon - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_herbertaxelrodi.html As you can see from their scientific names (the last part of the URL's), they are different species, although all from the same Characin family. I've seen forum posts and articles about inter-species schooling but it's not something that is guaranteed nor should it be part of your planning UNLESS you have an agreement with your fish store that you can bring back fish that do not school and swap them out for ones of the same species. The Black Neon's get bigger than the Neon Tetra's and Glowlight Tetra's. Since you are already dealing with a small tank where you will be stocking it completely to the limits, you should stick with the smaller species to help avoid an overstocking situation. I've never kept Neon's or Glowlights so I do not know if they will inter-school or not so maybe someone else in the group will have an opinion on this or you could just try it and see if they do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Question. Do I have to get for instance 5-6 neon tetras, or could I get 3 neon tetras and 3 black neon tetras, or 3 glowlight tetras and three black neon tetras? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Since they only grow to around an inch, you could have five of them and a school of 5-6 neon tetras and if you go with some live plants to help the overall ecology of the tank, you shouldn't have any overstocking problems. For more ideas about 10G tank stocking, go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side in the labels section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions which will give you lots of other ideas you might want to consider. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ..´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ..´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium questions

Hi Kate, Check out this page for more ideas or confirmation of your own Paludarium ideas... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm The cork should be find submerged. Some folks even use it fully submerged as a background in aquariums. Here's some very easy and easy to grow plants with profiles on each one... http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions I have a vivarium that I decided to turn into a paludarium and just had a couple questions. First here is a description of the setup. The tank is a 10g aquarium which has been tipped on it's side so that the top of the aquarium is now the front. A piece of glass six inches tall, is siliconed to the bottom half of the front and a similar one at the top with a piece in the middle that flips out for access. The top piece has a circle cut out and covered with screen for ventilation. It's a bit like a homemade version of the exo-terra setups. The back and the left side are covered in cork bark and have branches, bromeliads, creeping fig, and some type of philodendron attached. The cork bark would reach down into the water about two inches. Do you think it can be partly submerged or do I need to cut it back? Do any of you have a favorite submersible nano filters? I plan to use Java Fern, Java Moss and possibly Anubias since the light will be far from the water. Any other thoughts on easy, low light plants? Thanks for reading, Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27339	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

http://www.Aquabid.com is like an eBay for aquarium related stuff. You can usually find people selling cherry shrimp, amano shrimp, etc. on there. Let me know the best deal you can find on cherry shrimp and I may decide to finally do my first sale. I set up a cherry shrimp tank a while back with plans to breed them for sale to my LFS but I've been too busy with work to worry about it but if you can't find a local seller or a good deal, I'll try to help. I had my first batch of cherry shrimp shipped to me with priority mail (2-day) and they arrived fine I paid $25.00 for my first batch of shrimp, which included shipping charges which was a good deal back then. I'm not sure how much they are even selling for nowadays. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Lenny, I had actually asked her about getting some shrimp to eat the algae, and she doesn't sell them. Chuckle. Should I get the shrimp, and where would you suggest I get them from? Might have to get them online, which I should think poses difficulties. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions You need to look at fish that stay closer to one inch which limits your choices. In a 10G, you would only want 10 small 1" fish and you are planning for five pygmy corys so your other 5-6 fish should be in the lower 1" range. If you went with 5-6 2" fish, you would be overstocked by 50% by even the minimalist of standards. If you don't like the ones you were first interested in, go to my blog and on the right side, there is a link to 10G Stocking Suggestions under the labels section. Read over that article by Hailey and you'll get many other suggestions. Another fish that stays very small is the Galaxy Raspbora so you might want to see if your LFS has them. I wouldn't go with both oto's and pygmy corys since they are both mostly bottom dwellers. Your first plan to go with the pygmy corys (bottom dwellers) and a small school of small tetras would be a more visually active tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Actually after visiting the fish store I'm no longer sure I want these particular fish - their flashy stripes are too flashy! I'm looking into other small hardy fish. I want medium dark plain fishy looking with subtle color and a little bit of bright won't hurt - but not that much bright. Length not over 2 inches. Not of the < 6.5 ph or hard to keep variety, and want to avoid needs 80 degrees. Fish store suggested otys in addition to pygmy corys. One eats food scraps and the other algae. She looked at me when she heard that pygmy corys must be kept in groups of atleast five - suggested two or three of each for a ten gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Neon Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html Glowlight Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.html Black Neon - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_herbertaxelrodi.html As you can see from their scientific names (the last part of the URL's), they are different species, although all from the same Characin family. I've seen forum posts and articles about inter-species schooling but it's not something that is guaranteed nor should it be part of your planning UNLESS you have an agreement with your fish store that you can bring back fish that do not school and swap them out for ones of the same species. The Black Neon's get bigger than the Neon Tetra's and Glowlight Tetra's. Since you are already dealing with a small tank where you will be stocking it completely to the limits, you should stick with the smaller species to help avoid an overstocking situation. I've never kept Neon's or Glowlights so I do not know if they will inter-school or not so maybe someone else in the group will have an opinion on this or you could just try it and see if they do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Question. Do I have to get for instance 5-6 neon tetras, or could I get 3 neon tetras and 3 black neon tetras, or 3 glowlight tetras and three black neon tetras? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Since they only grow to around an inch, you could have five of them and a school of 5-6 neon tetras and if you go with some live plants to help the overall ecology of the tank, you shouldn't have any overstocking problems. For more ideas about 10G tank stocking, go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side in the labels section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions which will give you lots of other ideas you might want to consider. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27340	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: Brown algae

They aren't harmful. Just another opportunistic critter that shows up in aquaria when conditions warrant them... usually with new tanks, it's excess silicates. There's no need to worry about them and they'll go away after a few weeks to a few months once the rest of the new tanks ecology starts growing. That link I provided actually has links in it to other university websites, etc., one of which has electron microscope photos of diatoms and they are supposed to be quite spectacular if you're into that sort of thing... kind of like snowflakes of the aquaria world. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown algae Two questions. First, is there supposed to be a way to get rid of these diatoms, or are they ordinarly not harmful? Should she replace her filter, or part of it, to get rid of them? Second, surely diatoms can be distinguished from algae under a microscope? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown algae If it's actually "brown algae", it's probably diatoms which isn't actually an algae. The diatoms you are likely seeing live off of silicates that are more common at higher levels in newly set up tanks. The silicates leach from the silicone on new tanks but also from some substrates and decorations. How long has your tank been set up? If the "brown algae" is more like a dust and is easily wiped off, then it's more likely to be diatoms. Algae eating fish will not readily eat diatoms although they may scrape it off in their quest for normal algae. Here's an article all about "Brown Algae" aka Diatoms. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown algae I seem to have a brown algae issue.......its steming from the filter! I've got a pleco, but he can't reach the filter and he's not eating it off the plastic plants....I'm not sure how to get rid of it! I change 3- 4 gallons out of the 16g tank once a week and wipe off any brown algae with hot water and the tank designated scrubber... All the tests are within normal range...although I've just switched from the strips to the API master test kit, and I'm still getting used to using it... Anything I can do about the brown algae?? ( I know the pleco is going to outgrow the tank, but he's only 3 or 4 inches long right now) there are also 4 platy and one african dwarf frog in this tank. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27341	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/24/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

It is you that is confused... lol Marineland merged with Tetra and took Bio-Spira off the market a few months ago. That is when Dr. Tim started up his own company and introduced "One & Only Nitrifying Bacteria" product. If you go to my blog, the one at the top is a recent blog I did about the "new" Bio-Spira that will be put out by Tetra but the email I received from Tetra called it Start Right but then I learned there was already a product called Start Right so I think Tetra found this out also and changed the name to Safe Start... or the person sending me the first email reply could have gotten the name confused in the email to me. In either case, Tetra... or rather United Pet Group (Tetra and Marineland) is the new distributor of Bio-Spira for saltwater and whatever their new product will be called.. Safestart or Start Right.. for freshwater. Dr. Tim was the lead research scientist for Marineland Labs for 17 years and HE holds all of the patents on the Bio-Spira technology but Marineland owned the name "Bio-Spira" so Dr. Tim started his own company, bought the Marineland lab that had been closed down when they merged with Tetra and started producing his own product, One & Only. There were non-compete agreements, confidentiality agreements and possibly some litigation or threats of it which is probably why Dr. Tim doesn't disclose very much to general inquiries. I don't know why you are so hung up on the one bacteria, nitrospira. If you've read my other posts, you will have seen that there are/were three strains of nitrifying bacteria in Bio-Spira and probably the same things in One & Only but he may not be able to disclose them due to threats of litigation. I would buy One & Only over anything from Tetra any day of the week, month, year or lifetime. Tetra has a reputation for sub-standard products and Dr. Tim has a reputation for high standard products. Since both of their products are relatively new, I would bet my money that Dr. Tim's is far superior to Tetra's but you can wait if you want. From everything I've read so far about One & Only, it's more like the original Bio-Spira with the exception that it says it can be kept at room temp for up to six months, which I'm still reserving a right to wonder about but I'll be glad when enough hobbyists have used One & Only to see the final results about it's shelf life at room temp versus refrigeration. I see that DrsFosterSmith.com ships One & Only in overnight cooler packs since temps over 95F will severely harm the bacteria so I'm wondering if Tetra's distribution will take the same pains to keep their products at room temp. I've been in shipping warehouses before down here in the south and I can tell you they get into the 90's so if Tetra isn't putting demands on their distributors, their new product will be dead on arrival... pardon the pun. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Lenny, I think you're probably confused about Bio-Spira and Tetra. Tetra is coming out with safestart- it's a different product. Or is it I'm who is confused - Marineland is going to sell the Tetra product, safestart, instead of Bio-Spira. I'm literally not following you - what would legal issues with Marineland over a different product have to do with whether Dr. Tim tells us whether his own new product contains nitrospira? If the legal problem in question is that Marineland won't be selling Dr. Tim's products at all, that has absolutely no effect on what he decides to tell people about his product. I sure wish Marineland was going to sell safestart this month instead of next. If that's the gist of what you're saying. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:58 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one strain to fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to eat the ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the third strain comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK and I do know that a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products DID NOT WORK. I'm sure his new product, "One & Only", has the same bacteria as Bio-Spira, although it does seem that they've developed a way for it to last a few months at room temp now. See the FAQ's on http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com for more info. U.S. Patents, generally are public record so if you really wanted to see what was in there, you could probably find the patent application information somewhere online. Unless it's something new and proprietary like the process that allows the nitrifying bacteria to stay alive at room temp without ammonia and oxygen.... I'll still have to see it to believe it though. Here is one of Dr. Tim's recent Patents issued 9/11/2007 but applied for in 2003 if you want to do some detailed reading and or search this site for more of his inventions. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7267816-description.html Here's my Google search which found 3,500 hits about "One & Only". http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=The+One+and+Only+Dr.+Ho vanec including a PodCast that came up at the top so you might want to listen to it. Once again, I'd tend to believe in Dr. Hovenac over the Tetra folks any day!!!! Dr. Hovenac probably limits communications about how the new product is made due to legal issues involving his split from Marineland and their decision to get in bed with Tetra. Without seeing any of the issues going on between them, I'd be more likely to believe that Dr. Hovenac's product works where I wouldn't have that same trust with Tetra products. Although many of Tetra's products are probably fine, they also push that stuff, Easy Balance, that tells people they don't have to do water changes but once every six months and the research I did on Easy Balance showed it to be a mix of chemicals, acids and bases and formaldehyde. I think I once jokingly summarized it as being something that kills all your fish but at least the formaldehyde keeps them preserved so they appear to be alive as the filter moves the water around. ;-) Another article I read about Easy Balance had a guppy tank where they guppy didn't breed... and anything that can stop guppy from breeding can't be good for our fish. Dr. Tim is definitely WAY AHEAD of Marineland and Tetra. His products are available from http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com which is one of the very well respected web sites out there. As far as Dr. Tim being a whack job??? Well, most very intelligent people are whack jobs. I know I am and most of my friends and family will verify it. :-D The cause is that we can't have "normal" conversations with the rest of the world so it drives us crazy. People are still amazed at how fast I can type with my nose... over 60wpm... since they won't let me out of this darn straight jacket! Not to mention holding down the shift key when needed but I won't explain how I do that. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that "one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell it on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it but provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. Since I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is supposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. Now, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh bacteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must have nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and only contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't say if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I didn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people are debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also the point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me the bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only possible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will do what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to me sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people would buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to buy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling me it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is suspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains nitrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it contained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in Europe. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell or market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently confident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying the bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the right store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that of the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new formulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec or his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that in another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. He's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not wanting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. http://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have clicked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it from his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you eventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&i d=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to order. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad company, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've always been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking up a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab kit; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough companies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I asked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for Tetra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to say whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as high end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27342	From: endoaware_girl06	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Newt trouble

Hi I just joined this group looking for some help. I have a fire belly newt that I had just bought. I have had him for a few days. He will not eat. I have tried dried and frozen food. It is hard for me to find live food for him. Is there any thing I can try to do to keep him from dying. Ive tried alot. I have even cut up night crawlers and crickets to try to feed to him but they still seem to big. I might be able to get him some pinhead crickets monday but that seems to far away for him. He is starting to slow down and become weak. Is there any thing I can do to keep him alive alittle longer? If any one here cant help me can you give my message to some one who might be able to? thank you so much for any help. Gina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27343	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Newt trouble

My fire belly newt that I had in a 20 gallon with my fish (9 years ago) ate the fish food (flakes) and frozen blood worms. I had him with my 2 discus for many years until I filled the tank too full one day and my kitty had him for a snack. -----Original Message----- From: endoaware_girl06 <endoaware_girl06@...> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newt trouble Hi I just joined this group looking for some help. I have a fire belly newt that I had just bought. I have had him for a few days. He will not eat. I have tried dried and frozen food. It is hard for me to find live food for him. Is there any thing I can try to do to keep him from dying. Ive tried alot. I have even cut up night crawlers and crickets to try to feed to him but they still seem to big. I might be able to get him some pinhead crickets monday but that seems to far away for him. He is starting to slow down and become weak. Is there any thing I can do to keep him alive alittle longer? If any one here cant help me can you give my message to some one who might be able to? thank you so much for any help. Gina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27344	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Newt trouble

How aquatic are they? If they will hunt in the water, have you tried ghost shrimp what about meal worms? You can cut them up in small bits of you need to. They still wiggle which will elicit a predation response from the newt. You should probably contact a local vet and find out if they handle newts (most have Herp specialists or at least have contact with one) and if not if they should know where you could go. You could probably contact your local zoo or Aquarium if you have one near you (or even call one like the John G. Shedd Aquarium in Chicago I am sure they could help you with some advice and point you to some resources. Places like that are VERY committed to animals). They may be able to help you as well. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H3ATH3R Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 11:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newt trouble My fire belly newt that I had in a 20 gallon with my fish (9 years ago) ate the fish food (flakes) and frozen blood worms. I had him with my 2 discus for many years until I filled the tank too full one day and my kitty had him for a snack. -----Original Message----- From: endoaware_girl06 <endoaware_girl06@ <mailto:endoaware_girl06%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:08 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newt trouble Hi I just joined this group looking for some help. I have a fire belly newt that I had just bought. I have had him for a few days. He will not eat. I have tried dried and frozen food. It is hard for me to find live food for him. Is there any thing I can try to do to keep him from dying. Ive tried alot. I have even cut up night crawlers and crickets to try to feed to him but they still seem to big. I might be able to get him some pinhead crickets monday but that seems to far away for him. He is starting to slow down and become weak. Is there any thing I can do to keep him alive alittle longer? If any one here cant help me can you give my message to some one who might be able to? thank you so much for any help. Gina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27345	From: hessam abdi	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

dear lenny thanks alot for your nice informations "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: It is you that is confused... lol Marineland merged with Tetra and took Bio-Spira off the market a few months ago. That is when Dr. Tim started up his own company and introduced "One & Only Nitrifying Bacteria" product. If you go to my blog, the one at the top is a recent blog I did about the "new" Bio-Spira that will be put out by Tetra but the email I received from Tetra called it Start Right but then I learned there was already a product called Start Right so I think Tetra found this out also and changed the name to Safe Start... or the person sending me the first email reply could have gotten the name confused in the email to me. In either case, Tetra... or rather United Pet Group (Tetra and Marineland) is the new distributor of Bio-Spira for saltwater and whatever their new product will be called.. Safestart or Start Right.. for freshwater. Dr. Tim was the lead research scientist for Marineland Labs for 17 years and HE holds all of the patents on the Bio-Spira technology but Marineland owned the name "Bio-Spira" so Dr. Tim started his own company, bought the Marineland lab that had been closed down when they merged with Tetra and started producing his own product, One & Only. There were non-compete agreements, confidentiality agreements and possibly some litigation or threats of it which is probably why Dr. Tim doesn't disclose very much to general inquiries. I don't know why you are so hung up on the one bacteria, nitrospira. If you've read my other posts, you will have seen that there are/were three strains of nitrifying bacteria in Bio-Spira and probably the same things in One & Only but he may not be able to disclose them due to threats of litigation. I would buy One & Only over anything from Tetra any day of the week, month, year or lifetime. Tetra has a reputation for sub-standard products and Dr. Tim has a reputation for high standard products. Since both of their products are relatively new, I would bet my money that Dr. Tim's is far superior to Tetra's but you can wait if you want. From everything I've read so far about One & Only, it's more like the original Bio-Spira with the exception that it says it can be kept at room temp for up to six months, which I'm still reserving a right to wonder about but I'll be glad when enough hobbyists have used One & Only to see the final results about it's shelf life at room temp versus refrigeration. I see that DrsFosterSmith.com ships One & Only in overnight cooler packs since temps over 95F will severely harm the bacteria so I'm wondering if Tetra's distribution will take the same pains to keep their products at room temp. I've been in shipping warehouses before down here in the south and I can tell you they get into the 90's so if Tetra isn't putting demands on their distributors, their new product will be dead on arrival... pardon the pun. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Lenny, I think you're probably confused about Bio-Spira and Tetra. Tetra is coming out with safestart- it's a different product. Or is it I'm who is confused - Marineland is going to sell the Tetra product, safestart, instead of Bio-Spira. I'm literally not following you - what would legal issues with Marineland over a different product have to do with whether Dr. Tim tells us whether his own new product contains nitrospira? If the legal problem in question is that Marineland won't be selling Dr. Tim's products at all, that has absolutely no effect on what he decides to tell people about his product. I sure wish Marineland was going to sell safestart this month instead of next. If that's the gist of what you're saying. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:58 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one strain to fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to eat the ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the third strain comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK and I do know that a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products DID NOT WORK. I'm sure his new product, "One & Only", has the same bacteria as Bio-Spira, although it does seem that they've developed a way for it to last a few months at room temp now. See the FAQ's on http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com for more info. U.S. Patents, generally are public record so if you really wanted to see what was in there, you could probably find the patent application information somewhere online. Unless it's something new and proprietary like the process that allows the nitrifying bacteria to stay alive at room temp without ammonia and oxygen.... I'll still have to see it to believe it though. Here is one of Dr. Tim's recent Patents issued 9/11/2007 but applied for in 2003 if you want to do some detailed reading and or search this site for more of his inventions. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7267816-description.html Here's my Google search which found 3,500 hits about "One & Only". http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=The+One+and+Only+Dr.+Ho vanec including a PodCast that came up at the top so you might want to listen to it. Once again, I'd tend to believe in Dr. Hovenac over the Tetra folks any day!!!! Dr. Hovenac probably limits communications about how the new product is made due to legal issues involving his split from Marineland and their decision to get in bed with Tetra. Without seeing any of the issues going on between them, I'd be more likely to believe that Dr. Hovenac's product works where I wouldn't have that same trust with Tetra products. Although many of Tetra's products are probably fine, they also push that stuff, Easy Balance, that tells people they don't have to do water changes but once every six months and the research I did on Easy Balance showed it to be a mix of chemicals, acids and bases and formaldehyde. I think I once jokingly summarized it as being something that kills all your fish but at least the formaldehyde keeps them preserved so they appear to be alive as the filter moves the water around. ;-) Another article I read about Easy Balance had a guppy tank where they guppy didn't breed... and anything that can stop guppy from breeding can't be good for our fish. Dr. Tim is definitely WAY AHEAD of Marineland and Tetra. His products are available from http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com which is one of the very well respected web sites out there. As far as Dr. Tim being a whack job??? Well, most very intelligent people are whack jobs. I know I am and most of my friends and family will verify it. :-D The cause is that we can't have "normal" conversations with the rest of the world so it drives us crazy. People are still amazed at how fast I can type with my nose... over 60wpm... since they won't let me out of this darn straight jacket! Not to mention holding down the shift key when needed but I won't explain how I do that. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that "one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell it on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it but provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. Since I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is supposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. Now, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh bacteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must have nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and only contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't say if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I didn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people are debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also the point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me the bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only possible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will do what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to me sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people would buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to buy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling me it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is suspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains nitrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it contained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in Europe. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell or market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently confident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying the bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the right store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that of the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new formulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec or his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that in another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. He's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not wanting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. http://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have clicked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it from his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you eventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&i d=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to order. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad company, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've always been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking up a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab kit; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough companies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I asked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for Tetra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to say whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as high end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27346	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

How do you ship shrimp? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions http://www.Aquabid.com is like an eBay for aquarium related stuff. You can usually find people selling cherry shrimp, amano shrimp, etc. on there. Let me know the best deal you can find on cherry shrimp and I may decide to finally do my first sale. I set up a cherry shrimp tank a while back with plans to breed them for sale to my LFS but I've been too busy with work to worry about it but if you can't find a local seller or a good deal, I'll try to help. I had my first batch of cherry shrimp shipped to me with priority mail (2-day) and they arrived fine I paid $25.00 for my first batch of shrimp, which included shipping charges which was a good deal back then. I'm not sure how much they are even selling for nowadays. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Lenny, I had actually asked her about getting some shrimp to eat the algae, and she doesn't sell them. Chuckle. Should I get the shrimp, and where would you suggest I get them from? Might have to get them online, which I should think poses difficulties. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions You need to look at fish that stay closer to one inch which limits your choices. In a 10G, you would only want 10 small 1" fish and you are planning for five pygmy corys so your other 5-6 fish should be in the lower 1" range. If you went with 5-6 2" fish, you would be overstocked by 50% by even the minimalist of standards. If you don't like the ones you were first interested in, go to my blog and on the right side, there is a link to 10G Stocking Suggestions under the labels section. Read over that article by Hailey and you'll get many other suggestions. Another fish that stays very small is the Galaxy Raspbora so you might want to see if your LFS has them. I wouldn't go with both oto's and pygmy corys since they are both mostly bottom dwellers. Your first plan to go with the pygmy corys (bottom dwellers) and a small school of small tetras would be a more visually active tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Actually after visiting the fish store I'm no longer sure I want these particular fish - their flashy stripes are too flashy! I'm looking into other small hardy fish. I want medium dark plain fishy looking with subtle color and a little bit of bright won't hurt - but not that much bright. Length not over 2 inches. Not of the < 6.5 ph or hard to keep variety, and want to avoid needs 80 degrees. Fish store suggested otys in addition to pygmy corys. One eats food scraps and the other algae. She looked at me when she heard that pygmy corys must be kept in groups of atleast five - suggested two or three of each for a ten gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Neon Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html Glowlight Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.html Black Neon - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_herbertaxelrodi.html As you can see from their scientific names (the last part of the URL's), they are different species, although all from the same Characin family. I've seen forum posts and articles about inter-species schooling but it's not something that is guaranteed nor should it be part of your planning UNLESS you have an agreement with your fish store that you can bring back fish that do not school and swap them out for ones of the same species. The Black Neon's get bigger than the Neon Tetra's and Glowlight Tetra's. Since you are already dealing with a small tank where you will be stocking it completely to the limits, you should stick with the smaller species to help avoid an overstocking situation. I've never kept Neon's or Glowlights so I do not know if they will inter-school or not so maybe someone else in the group will have an opinion on this or you could just try it and see if they do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Question. Do I have to get for instance 5-6 neon tetras, or could I get 3 neon tetras and 3 black neon tetras, or 3 glowlight tetras and three black neon tetras? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Since they only grow to around an inch, you could have five of them and a school of 5-6 neon tetras and if you go with some live plants to help the overall ecology of the tank, you shouldn't have any overstocking problems. For more ideas about 10G tank stocking, go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side in the labels section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions which will give you lots of other ideas you might want to consider. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27347	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Ah, I see. Thakns for clearing that up! Grin. So he expects people to buy his product instead of Safestart, without knowing whether it contains nitrospira, which safestart advertises that it does. There's one in every barrel. Someone will actually buy from him! Won't be me. It is possible that he doesn't want very badly to sell it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. It is you that is confused... lol Marineland merged with Tetra and took Bio-Spira off the market a few months ago. That is when Dr. Tim started up his own company and introduced "One & Only Nitrifying Bacteria" product. If you go to my blog, the one at the top is a recent blog I did about the "new" Bio-Spira that will be put out by Tetra but the email I received from Tetra called it Start Right but then I learned there was already a product called Start Right so I think Tetra found this out also and changed the name to Safe Start... or the person sending me the first email reply could have gotten the name confused in the email to me. In either case, Tetra... or rather United Pet Group (Tetra and Marineland) is the new distributor of Bio-Spira for saltwater and whatever their new product will be called.. Safestart or Start Right.. for freshwater. Dr. Tim was the lead research scientist for Marineland Labs for 17 years and HE holds all of the patents on the Bio-Spira technology but Marineland owned the name "Bio-Spira" so Dr. Tim started his own company, bought the Marineland lab that had been closed down when they merged with Tetra and started producing his own product, One & Only. There were non-compete agreements, confidentiality agreements and possibly some litigation or threats of it which is probably why Dr. Tim doesn't disclose very much to general inquiries. I don't know why you are so hung up on the one bacteria, nitrospira. If you've read my other posts, you will have seen that there are/were three strains of nitrifying bacteria in Bio-Spira and probably the same things in One & Only but he may not be able to disclose them due to threats of litigation. I would buy One & Only over anything from Tetra any day of the week, month, year or lifetime. Tetra has a reputation for sub-standard products and Dr. Tim has a reputation for high standard products. Since both of their products are relatively new, I would bet my money that Dr. Tim's is far superior to Tetra's but you can wait if you want. From everything I've read so far about One & Only, it's more like the original Bio-Spira with the exception that it says it can be kept at room temp for up to six months, which I'm still reserving a right to wonder about but I'll be glad when enough hobbyists have used One & Only to see the final results about it's shelf life at room temp versus refrigeration. I see that DrsFosterSmith.com ships One & Only in overnight cooler packs since temps over 95F will severely harm the bacteria so I'm wondering if Tetra's distribution will take the same pains to keep their products at room temp. I've been in shipping warehouses before down here in the south and I can tell you they get into the 90's so if Tetra isn't putting demands on their distributors, their new product will be dead on arrival... pardon the pun. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Lenny, I think you're probably confused about Bio-Spira and Tetra. Tetra is coming out with safestart- it's a different product. Or is it I'm who is confused - Marineland is going to sell the Tetra product, safestart, instead of Bio-Spira. I'm literally not following you - what would legal issues with Marineland over a different product have to do with whether Dr. Tim tells us whether his own new product contains nitrospira? If the legal problem in question is that Marineland won't be selling Dr. Tim's products at all, that has absolutely no effect on what he decides to tell people about his product. I sure wish Marineland was going to sell safestart this month instead of next. If that's the gist of what you're saying. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:58 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one strain to fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to eat the ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the third strain comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK and I do know that a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products DID NOT WORK. I'm sure his new product, "One & Only", has the same bacteria as Bio-Spira, although it does seem that they've developed a way for it to last a few months at room temp now. See the FAQ's on http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com for more info. U.S. Patents, generally are public record so if you really wanted to see what was in there, you could probably find the patent application information somewhere online. Unless it's something new and proprietary like the process that allows the nitrifying bacteria to stay alive at room temp without ammonia and oxygen.... I'll still have to see it to believe it though. Here is one of Dr. Tim's recent Patents issued 9/11/2007 but applied for in 2003 if you want to do some detailed reading and or search this site for more of his inventions. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7267816-description.html Here's my Google search which found 3,500 hits about "One & Only". http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=The+One+and+Only+Dr.+Ho vanec including a PodCast that came up at the top so you might want to listen to it. Once again, I'd tend to believe in Dr. Hovenac over the Tetra folks any day!!!! Dr. Hovenac probably limits communications about how the new product is made due to legal issues involving his split from Marineland and their decision to get in bed with Tetra. Without seeing any of the issues going on between them, I'd be more likely to believe that Dr. Hovenac's product works where I wouldn't have that same trust with Tetra products. Although many of Tetra's products are probably fine, they also push that stuff, Easy Balance, that tells people they don't have to do water changes but once every six months and the research I did on Easy Balance showed it to be a mix of chemicals, acids and bases and formaldehyde. I think I once jokingly summarized it as being something that kills all your fish but at least the formaldehyde keeps them preserved so they appear to be alive as the filter moves the water around. ;-) Another article I read about Easy Balance had a guppy tank where they guppy didn't breed... and anything that can stop guppy from breeding can't be good for our fish. Dr. Tim is definitely WAY AHEAD of Marineland and Tetra. His products are available from http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com which is one of the very well respected web sites out there. As far as Dr. Tim being a whack job??? Well, most very intelligent people are whack jobs. I know I am and most of my friends and family will verify it. :-D The cause is that we can't have "normal" conversations with the rest of the world so it drives us crazy. People are still amazed at how fast I can type with my nose... over 60wpm... since they won't let me out of this darn straight jacket! Not to mention holding down the shift key when needed but I won't explain how I do that. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that "one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell it on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it but provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. Since I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is supposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. Now, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh bacteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must have nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and only contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't say if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I didn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people are debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also the point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me the bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only possible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will do what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to me sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people would buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to buy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling me it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is suspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains nitrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it contained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in Europe. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell or market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently confident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying the bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the right store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that of the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new formulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec or his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that in another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. He's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not wanting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. http://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have clicked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it from his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you eventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&i d=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to order. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad company, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've always been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking up a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab kit; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough companies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I asked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for Tetra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to say whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as high end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27348	From: endoaware_girl06	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Newt trouble

I have been trying the frozen blood worms. he will not eat them. I cant get ghost shrimp or meal worms. i dont think he is very aquatic, is stays on land alot. where i live vets are normally just for cats, dogs, and horses. and no local zoo. so it sucks. i dont know how to get in contact with a herp specialist. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > How aquatic are they? If they will hunt in the water, have you tried ghost > shrimp what about meal worms? You can cut them up in small bits of you need > to. They still wiggle which will elicit a predation response from the newt. > You should probably contact a local vet and find out if they handle newts > (most have Herp specialists or at least have contact with one) and if not if > they should know where you could go. You could probably contact your local > zoo or Aquarium if you have one near you (or even call one like the John G. > Shedd Aquarium in Chicago I am sure they could help you with some advice and > point you to some resources. Places like that are VERY committed to > animals). They may be able to help you as well. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of H3ATH3R > Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 11:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newt trouble > > > > My fire belly newt that I had in a 20 gallon with my fish (9 years ago) ate > the fish food (flakes) and frozen blood worms. I had him with my 2 discus > for many years until I filled the tank too full one day and my kitty had him > for a snack. > > -----Original Message----- > From: endoaware_girl06 <endoaware_girl06@ > <mailto:endoaware_girl06%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newt trouble > > Hi I just joined this group looking for some help. I have a fire belly > newt that I had just bought. I have had him for a few days. He will > not eat. I have tried dried and frozen food. It is hard for me to find > live food for him. Is there any thing I can try to do to keep him from > dying. Ive tried alot. I have even cut up night crawlers and crickets > to try to feed to him but they still seem to big. I might be able to > get him some pinhead crickets monday but that seems to far away for > him. He is starting to slow down and become weak. Is there any thing I > can do to keep him alive alittle longer? > > If any one here cant help me can you give my message to some one who > might be able to? > > thank you so much for any help. > > Gina > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27349	From: hessam abdi	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Newt trouble

hi there its very important that your fish hase how many years old.if your fish is adult you cant cheanging his food hobbit on the other hand how many days ago your fish arive to tank.you need to one week for adaptation.take care of herself.bye endoaware_girl06 <endoaware_girl06@...> wrote: Hi I just joined this group looking for some help. I have a fire belly newt that I had just bought. I have had him for a few days. He will not eat. I have tried dried and frozen food. It is hard for me to find live food for him. Is there any thing I can try to do to keep him from dying. Ive tried alot. I have even cut up night crawlers and crickets to try to feed to him but they still seem to big. I might be able to get him some pinhead crickets monday but that seems to far away for him. He is starting to slow down and become weak. Is there any thing I can do to keep him alive alittle longer? If any one here cant help me can you give my message to some one who might be able to? thank you so much for any help. Gina --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27350	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Newt trouble

Gina: Have you talked to the place where you bough him? I know they do not have to eat every day - but you'd think he would nibble a bit of something. Good luck and keep us posted on him. In a message dated 4/25/2008 6:00:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, endoaware_girl06@... writes: I have been trying the frozen blood worms. he will not eat them. I cant get ghost shrimp or meal worms. i dont think he is very aquatic, is stays on land alot. where i live vets are normally just for cats, dogs, and horses. and no local zoo. so it sucks. i dont know how to get in contact with a herp specialist. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > How aquatic are they? If they will hunt in the water, have you tried ghost > shrimp…what about meal worms? You can cut them up in small bits of you need > to. They still wiggle which will elicit a predation response from the newt. > You should probably contact a local vet and find out if they handle newts > (most have Herp specialists or at least have contact with one) and if not if > they should know where you could go. You could probably contact your local > zoo or Aquarium if you have one near you (or even call one like the John G. > Shedd Aquarium in Chicago…I am sure they could help you with some advice and > point you to some resources. Places like that are VERY committed to > animals). They may be able to help you as well. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of H3ATH3R > Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 11:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newt trouble > > > > My fire belly newt that I had in a 20 gallon with my fish (9 years ago) ate > the fish food (flakes) and frozen blood worms. I had him with my 2 discus > for many years until I filled the tank too full one day and my kitty had him > for a snack. > > -----Original Message----- > From: endoaware_girl06 <endoaware_girl06@ > <mailto:endoaware_girl06%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newt trouble > > Hi I just joined this group looking for some help. I have a fire belly > newt that I had just bought. I have had him for a few days. He will > not eat. I have tried dried and frozen food. It is hard for me to find > live food for him. Is there any thing I can try to do to keep him from > dying. Ive tried alot. I have even cut up night crawlers and crickets > to try to feed to him but they still seem to big. I might be able to > get him some pinhead crickets monday but that seems to far away for > him. He is starting to slow down and become weak. Is there any thing I > can do to keep him alive alittle longer? > > If any one here cant help me can you give my message to some one who > might be able to? > > thank you so much for any help. > > Gina **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27351	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: filter

I have an eheim classic cannister and I've had my tank up and running for about 2 months now. When I assembled the cannister materials there is a carbon pad that goes inside that's supposed to be removed after 2 weeks (according to the directions) - my dilemma is I've checked my Eheim instructions, but it doesn't tell you how to go about actually turning the filter off to service it. Once I turn it off, will the water automatically drain from the hose? When I try to open the cannister will water come spewing out? Will it be a big ordeal to turn it back on and get it running? ACK! Help! As you can see, I'm a little hesitant to perform this feat for the first time.....any help, suggestion are kindly needed and appreciated! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27352	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: filter

Hi Shari, I must start by saying I do not have one of the brand of filters you have but I have been doing canister filters for many years. A filter like you have is a closed system. That means that anywhere you break a water tight seal out will come water! This is how I handle mine and most all of mine are Fluval of various years. First you need to get some buckets. Usually a small manageable one will do and then a larger one for your first time. Step one turn off the pump- usually done by unplugging it. Step two is pull out of the tank the tube that take the water out of the tank and place that in the larger bucket- water will always run down hill. So it may partially drain. 3rd take the return tube- hose and allow it to drain into the bucket. When most all of the water is drained out by holding the output hose section down low, I usually either dump that water out and come back with the bucket empty because of weight. 4th, With both intake and output hose up high Pick up the pump and transport to the washtub or where you clean them. Once in the wash tub I usually open the pump quickly because I have small fish and usually there are some babies in the bottom of the water that is left in the canister. That is when I get the media out and look in the bottom of the canister with a bright light and use a small net to fish out babies and put into the tank again near the bottom so they can hide. If all your fish are large without little ones, you can skip this step. Some pumps have turnoff valves in the hose just above the canister section to hold the water in the hose until you clean the filter. It may be a good idea but my hoses usually need cleaning as well anyway. Keep in mind as you clean this to see if you can try and keep bacteria in the lower section that eats ammonia and turns it into Nitrite. Otherwise unless you have two filters, you might end up fresh cycling your tank which is not desirable. After I do all the cleaning,including the inpellor and all the stuff used for the pump. I put the new media back into the canister and fill with water. Then put the cover on and fill the hoses until the water in the intake hose is seen and the exit hose is near full too. by tipping the canister in a pitch so the output is higher the bubble that are in it will be removed or escape. When you have inspected the canister for leaks in that the O rind is not seated right or other reasons, if there are no leaks you are ready to put back to the tank. Keep both hoses high. Hook the intake hose or place it onto the tube in the tank. Now comes a bucket again- take the exit hose and allow the water to drain a little into the bucket starting a siphon. This will dump some of the new media carbon or other stuff into the first water coming out as well as get bubbles out of the canister. When you are satisfied- a few inches of water in the bucket, you can stop the water flow with your finger and hook the exit hose to the sprayer or return tube to the tank. At this point if everything is secure and no leaks are showing, then you can plug in the pump and the filter will start to filter again. Once you have done this a few times it will be easy. Thinks to watch out for- If you use a spray return like I do (these are tubes with little holes drilled in them 1 inch apart), make sure they are aimed into the tank as it can be a big surprise to have them aimed the wrong way and power up the filter pump. It is best to alternate month of filter cleaning on two filters per tank. This way there is no shock to the system when one is cleaned too well and has no more bacteria in it. It will regenerate quickly as the other filter and the tank system will get bacteria that you need back in that filter in a few days. If you have any questions, I can tell you how I handle them. I have two 55 gallon and a pond outside 17X10 feet 48" deep. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. shari rivenburg wrote: > > I have an eheim classic cannister and I've had my tank up and running > for about 2 months now. When I assembled the cannister materials there > is a carbon pad that goes inside that's supposed to be removed after 2 > weeks (according to the directions) - my dilemma is I've checked my > Eheim instructions, but it doesn't tell you how to go about actually > turning the filter off to service it. Once I turn it off, will the > water automatically drain from the hose? When I try to open the > cannister will water come spewing out? Will it be a big ordeal to turn > it back on and get it running? ACK! Help! As you can see, I'm a > little hesitant to perform this feat for the first time.....any help, > suggestion are kindly needed and appreciated! > > Shari > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27353	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: filter

OMG, don't your filters have shut-off valves? To service my filstars and fluvals, I simply disconnect the hose assembly from the base by flipping a lever, which stops the water flow. Then I take the entire cannister to the tub for cleaning/rinsing/replacement as needed. On my Magnum, it is a little more work...I have to flip the off switch then turn 4 shut-off dials :-) The only time I remove and drain the hoses is when the entire system needs a deep cleaning, every few + months. With the hoses and intakes submerged, the filters self-prime once the valves are re-opened. I can't believe that eheim, being so "high-end" would be more complicated???? Carmen On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:01 PM, Sam Palermo <skywavebe@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Shari, > I must start by saying I do not have one of the brand of > filters you have but I have been doing canister filters for > many years. A filter like you have is a closed system. That > means that anywhere you break a water tight seal out will > come water! > This is how I handle mine and most all of mine are Fluval > of various years. First you need to get some buckets. Usually > a small manageable one will do and then a larger one for > your first time. > Step one turn off the pump- usually done by unplugging it. > Step two is pull out of the tank the tube that take the water > out of the tank and place that in the larger bucket- water will > always run down hill. So it may partially drain. > 3rd take the return tube- hose and allow it to drain into the > bucket. When most all of the water is drained out by holding the > output hose section down low, I usually either dump that water > out and come back with the bucket empty because of weight. > 4th, With both intake and output hose up high Pick up the pump > and transport to the washtub or where you clean them. Once in > the wash tub I usually open the pump quickly because I have > small fish and usually there are some babies in the bottom of > the water that is left in the canister. That is when I get the > media out and look in the bottom of the canister with a bright > light and use a small net to fish out babies and put into the > tank again near the bottom so they can hide. If all your fish > are large without little ones, you can skip this step. > Some pumps have turnoff valves in the hose just above the canister > section to hold the water in the hose until you clean the filter. > It may be a good idea but my hoses usually need cleaning as well > anyway. Keep in mind as you clean this to see if you can try > and keep bacteria in the lower section that eats ammonia and > turns it into Nitrite. Otherwise unless you have two filters, > you might end up fresh cycling your tank which is not desirable. > > After I do all the cleaning,including the inpellor and all the stuff > used for the pump. I put the new media back into the > canister and fill with water. Then put the cover on and fill the hoses > until the water in the intake hose is seen and the exit hose > is near full too. by tipping the canister in a pitch so the output > is higher the bubble that are in it will be removed or escape. > When you have inspected the canister for leaks > in that the O rind is not seated right or other reasons, if there are no > leaks you are ready to put back to the tank. Keep both hoses high. > Hook the intake hose or place it onto the tube in the tank. Now comes a > bucket again- take the exit hose and allow the water to drain a > little into the bucket starting a siphon. This will dump some of the new > media carbon or other stuff into the first water coming out as well as > get bubbles out of the canister. When you are satisfied- a few > inches of water in the bucket, you can stop the water flow with your > finger and hook the exit hose to the sprayer or return tube to the > tank. At this point if everything is secure and no leaks are showing, > then you can plug in the pump and the filter will start to filter > again. Once you have done this a few times it will be easy. > Thinks to watch out for- If you use a spray return like I do > (these are tubes with little holes drilled in them 1 inch apart), > make sure they are aimed into the tank as it can be a big surprise to > have them aimed the wrong way and power up the filter pump. > It is best to alternate month of filter cleaning on two filters per > tank. This way there is no shock to the system when one is cleaned > too well and has no more bacteria in it. It will regenerate quickly > as the other filter and the tank system will get bacteria that you > need back in that filter in a few days. > > If you have any questions, I can tell you how I handle them. I have > two 55 gallon and a pond outside 17X10 feet 48" deep. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > shari rivenburg wrote: > > > > I have an eheim classic cannister and I've had my tank up and running > > for about 2 months now. When I assembled the cannister materials there > > is a carbon pad that goes inside that's supposed to be removed after 2 > > weeks (according to the directions) - my dilemma is I've checked my > > Eheim instructions, but it doesn't tell you how to go about actually > > turning the filter off to service it. Once I turn it off, will the > > water automatically drain from the hose? When I try to open the > > cannister will water come spewing out? Will it be a big ordeal to turn > > it back on and get it running? ACK! Help! As you can see, I'm a > > little hesitant to perform this feat for the first time.....any help, > > suggestion are kindly needed and appreciated! > > > > Shari > > > > > -- Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com Ontario, Canada

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27354	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: filter

My Eheim Ecco is a little more complicated than my Rena, but still there is no spewing. Also there are detailed directions. So the Classic could be different but: 1. While plugged in, turn the intake off 2. Then turn the outlet off 3. Then unplug 4. When you unscrew the hoses, the shut-off valves are off so you only get a drop or two. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 9:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] filter OMG, don't your filters have shut-off valves? To service my filstars and fluvals, I simply disconnect the hose assembly from the base by flipping a lever, which stops the water flow. Then I take the entire cannister to the tub for cleaning/rinsing/replacement as needed. On my Magnum, it is a little more work...I have to flip the off switch then turn 4 shut-off dials :-) The only time I remove and drain the hoses is when the entire system needs a deep cleaning, every few + months. With the hoses and intakes submerged, the filters self-prime once the valves are re-opened. I can't believe that eheim, being so "high-end" would be more complicated???? Carmen On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:01 PM, Sam Palermo <skywavebe@sbcglobal <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net> .net> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Shari, > I must start by saying I do not have one of the brand of > filters you have but I have been doing canister filters for > many years. A filter like you have is a closed system. That > means that anywhere you break a water tight seal out will > come water! > This is how I handle mine and most all of mine are Fluval > of various years. First you need to get some buckets. Usually > a small manageable one will do and then a larger one for > your first time. > Step one turn off the pump- usually done by unplugging it. > Step two is pull out of the tank the tube that take the water > out of the tank and place that in the larger bucket- water will > always run down hill. So it may partially drain. > 3rd take the return tube- hose and allow it to drain into the > bucket. When most all of the water is drained out by holding the > output hose section down low, I usually either dump that water > out and come back with the bucket empty because of weight. > 4th, With both intake and output hose up high Pick up the pump > and transport to the washtub or where you clean them. Once in > the wash tub I usually open the pump quickly because I have > small fish and usually there are some babies in the bottom of > the water that is left in the canister. That is when I get the > media out and look in the bottom of the canister with a bright > light and use a small net to fish out babies and put into the > tank again near the bottom so they can hide. If all your fish > are large without little ones, you can skip this step. > Some pumps have turnoff valves in the hose just above the canister > section to hold the water in the hose until you clean the filter. > It may be a good idea but my hoses usually need cleaning as well > anyway. Keep in mind as you clean this to see if you can try > and keep bacteria in the lower section that eats ammonia and > turns it into Nitrite. Otherwise unless you have two filters, > you might end up fresh cycling your tank which is not desirable. > > After I do all the cleaning,including the inpellor and all the stuff > used for the pump. I put the new media back into the > canister and fill with water. Then put the cover on and fill the hoses > until the water in the intake hose is seen and the exit hose > is near full too. by tipping the canister in a pitch so the output > is higher the bubble that are in it will be removed or escape. > When you have inspected the canister for leaks > in that the O rind is not seated right or other reasons, if there are no > leaks you are ready to put back to the tank. Keep both hoses high. > Hook the intake hose or place it onto the tube in the tank. Now comes a > bucket again- take the exit hose and allow the water to drain a > little into the bucket starting a siphon. This will dump some of the new > media carbon or other stuff into the first water coming out as well as > get bubbles out of the canister. When you are satisfied- a few > inches of water in the bucket, you can stop the water flow with your > finger and hook the exit hose to the sprayer or return tube to the > tank. At this point if everything is secure and no leaks are showing, > then you can plug in the pump and the filter will start to filter > again. Once you have done this a few times it will be easy. > Thinks to watch out for- If you use a spray return like I do > (these are tubes with little holes drilled in them 1 inch apart), > make sure they are aimed into the tank as it can be a big surprise to > have them aimed the wrong way and power up the filter pump. > It is best to alternate month of filter cleaning on two filters per > tank. This way there is no shock to the system when one is cleaned > too well and has no more bacteria in it. It will regenerate quickly > as the other filter and the tank system will get bacteria that you > need back in that filter in a few days. > > If you have any questions, I can tell you how I handle them. I have > two 55 gallon and a pond outside 17X10 feet 48" deep. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > shari rivenburg wrote: > > > > I have an eheim classic cannister and I've had my tank up and running > > for about 2 months now. When I assembled the cannister materials there > > is a carbon pad that goes inside that's supposed to be removed after 2 > > weeks (according to the directions) - my dilemma is I've checked my > > Eheim instructions, but it doesn't tell you how to go about actually > > turning the filter off to service it. Once I turn it off, will the > > water automatically drain from the hose? When I try to open the > > cannister will water come spewing out? Will it be a big ordeal to turn > > it back on and get it running? ACK! Help! As you can see, I'm a > > little hesitant to perform this feat for the first time.....any help, > > suggestion are kindly needed and appreciated! > > > > Shari > > > > > -- Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com Ontario, Canada [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27355	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. and where to find Bio-Spi

Um, well, not really. I had serious adentures today. Someone on another list posted that the Doctors Foster and Smith catalog lists a Fosters and Smith brand aqarium conditioner as containing all three bacteria; nitrospira and the other two. To confirm this, not having a catalog, I looked to see what is online and called Fosters and Smith. Now, I got home and I find a Fosters and Smith fish catalog in my shipment from them, and I think he may actually be talking about Nite-Out II, on page 158, which is not a Fosters and Smith brand. It does say it has all three bacteria. LOL. I wish I'd had the accurate information to begin with, I 'd have simply ordered it already instead of spending an hour and a half at work and $50 doing something else, but some things in life are just too much to expect. Mind you, not possible to ask the guy what product he was talking about, because asking anything specific on that list elicits flames from same person that I'm too deep a thinker, and merely masquerading as a new aquarium hobbyist. My best guess was Foster's and smith's Water Repair Series; Colonize. Fosters and Smith CR checked the catalog and theri online sources and found nothing about it, and they suggested I call Jungle Labs, which makes that product for them, and ask them. So I called Jungle Labs. Now, she gave me two toll free phone numbers; one for Jungle Labs, and the other turned out to be for United Pet Group. The CR person at United Pet Group turned out to be extraordinarily knowledgeable. The Colony product contains nothing in the way of nitrogen processing bacteria at all, just some enzymes and some other bacteria. Did I perhaps mean Bio-Spira which is coming out as a Tetra product? Why was I told to call Jungle Lab about a Fosters and Smith product and reached "United pet Group" and a list of companies; Tetra, Marineland, and Jungle Labs among others? OK. United Pet Group (Actually, I found out online, Rayovac become Spectrum Brands' United Pet Group) bought Tetra, Marineland, and Jungle Labs, and some other companies. ASI and Perfecto, and conceivably Instant Ocean. Most of these purchases actually happened in 2005. Marineland came up with Bio-Spira. They and Dr. Tim had some parting of the ways, and he told me just a bit more than I remember. Guy seemed to wonder about Dr. Tim atleast almost as much as I do. He mentioned patent issues and can't really understand why Dr. Tim wouldn't share with people why they'd want to buy his product any more than I do, and it came across that the guy isn't fully sane. OK, so, not Bio-Spira is being replaced by a new version of Bio-Spira, though he himself called it that at first. Actually, Spectra introduced Safestart, which IS the new formulation of Bio-Spira, and they introduced it in Europe first. So what has been selling and performing well in Europe is what they're about to introduce in the U.S. "next week" according to him, though the date I found is mid May. Now, the same guy told me that just one company still sells Bio-Spira online; that is aquariumplants.com I called them up and ordered it - and hte stuff IS a pain in everything you can think of. I paid as much again for fast shipment on ice as for the product itself, and on top of that I had to pay a UPS Store $5 to accept the package for me since I won't be home. Guy said they have a ton of Bio-Spira at the warehouse but no dealer will carry it because it's a pain in the neck to handle and everyone's waiting on the new formulation. Then I want to the lcoal aquarium store that is NOT the one I like so much, because it's on teh way home and I forgot to buy a couple of items, and they asked me if I wanted a package fo Bio-Spira and pulled a container out of the refrigerator behind the cash register. They said they get it from their distributor. That's River City Aquatics, between Research and Pond Springs Road, near Anderson Mill Road. OK, my estimation of them just went up, especially as the guy turned out to be extremely knowledgeable and helpful. Too bad they have little in the way of small catfish, shrimp, tetras and whatever those things that are related to barbs are. They're more into big colorful round and rectangular fish. So now I have a package of Bio-Spira in my refrigerator waiting for the rest of my stuff from Pet Smart to show up sometime between Monday and Thursday. They shipped the two orders two different ways, one to arrive Monday even though it's in Austin now, and the other next Thursday, an dnot they drop shipped it. It went via USPS in two different lots that must have followed very different routes to Oklahoma to be sent to Dallas to be sent to Austin. The other package just made it to Dallas. And they left Petsmart only a few hours apart. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. > Lenny, I think you're probably confused about Bio-Spira and Tetra. Tetra > is coming out with safestart- it's a different product. > > Or is it I'm who is confused - Marineland is going to sell the Tetra > product, safestart, instead of Bio-Spira. > > I'm literally not following you - what would legal issues with Marineland > over a different product have to do with whether Dr. Tim tells us whether > his own new product contains nitrospira? > > If the legal problem in question is that Marineland won't be selling Dr. > Tim's products at all, that has absolutely no effect on what he decides to > tell people about his product. > > I sure wish Marineland was going to sell safestart this month instead of > next. If that's the gist of what you're saying. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:58 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. > > > The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one strain > to > fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to eat the > ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the third strain > comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK and I do know > that > a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products DID NOT WORK. > > I'm sure his new product, "One & Only", has the same bacteria as > Bio-Spira, > although it does seem that they've developed a way for it to last a few > months at room temp now. See the FAQ's on http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com > for > more info. > > U.S. Patents, generally are public record so if you really wanted to see > what was in there, you could probably find the patent application > information somewhere online. Unless it's something new and proprietary > like the process that allows the nitrifying bacteria to stay alive at room > temp without ammonia and oxygen.... I'll still have to see it to believe > it > though. Here is one of Dr. Tim's recent Patents issued 9/11/2007 but > applied for in 2003 if you want to do some detailed reading and or search > this site for more of his inventions. > http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7267816-description.html > > Here's my Google search which found 3,500 hits about "One & Only". > http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=The+One+and+Only+Dr.+Ho > vanec including a PodCast that came up at the top so you might want to > listen to it. Once again, I'd tend to believe in Dr. Hovenac over the > Tetra > folks any day!!!! > > Dr. Hovenac probably limits communications about how the new product is > made > due to legal issues involving his split from Marineland and their decision > to get in bed with Tetra. Without seeing any of the issues going on > between > them, I'd be more likely to believe that Dr. Hovenac's product works where > I > wouldn't have that same trust with Tetra products. > > Although many of Tetra's products are probably fine, they also push that > stuff, Easy Balance, that tells people they don't have to do water changes > but once every six months and the research I did on Easy Balance showed it > to be a mix of chemicals, acids and bases and formaldehyde. I think I > once > jokingly summarized it as being something that kills all your fish but at > least the formaldehyde keeps them preserved so they appear to be alive as > the filter moves the water around. ;-) Another article I read about Easy > Balance had a guppy tank where they guppy didn't breed... and anything > that > can stop guppy from breeding can't be good for our fish. > > Dr. Tim is definitely WAY AHEAD of Marineland and Tetra. His products are > available from http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com which is one of the very well > respected web sites out there. > > As far as Dr. Tim being a whack job??? Well, most very intelligent people > are whack jobs. I know I am and most of my friends and family will verify > it. :-D The cause is that we can't have "normal" conversations with the > rest of the world so it drives us crazy. People are still amazed at how > fast I can type with my nose... over 60wpm... since they won't let me out > of > this darn straight jacket! Not to mention holding down the shift key > when > needed but I won't explain how I do that. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. > > You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that > "one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't > sell > it on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it > but provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. > Since I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one > is > supposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. > > When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a > half. > Now, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh > bacteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must > have nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and > only contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't > say if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I > didn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people > are debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is > also > the point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me > the bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only > possible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere > will > do what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail > to > > me sounded half there. > > If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why > people > would buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us > to > > buy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling > me it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever > is > suspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains > nitrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it > contained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in > Europe. > > It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either > sell > or market the product that he's selling. > > It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently > confident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying > the bacteria are there. > > On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the > right store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with > that > of the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new > formulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy > Hovanec > or his possible control over the patents for these products. > > Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. > > Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows > that > > in another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. > He's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not > wanting anyone to buy it. > > Here's a photo of the man. > http://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html > > By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two > weeks. > > Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have > clicked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it > from his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html > > Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you > eventually get to > > http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&i > d=0705310 > >Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to > order. > > More evidence that the man is a wack job. > > As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad > company, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've > always been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant > picking > up a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab > kit; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough > companies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I > asked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for > Tetra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to > say whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as > high end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 > 3:51 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 > 6:02 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27356	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: filter

> I have an eheim classic cannister and I've had my tank up and running > for about 2 months now. When I assembled the cannister materials there > is a carbon pad that goes inside that's supposed to be removed after 2 > weeks (according to the directions) - my dilemma is I've checked my > Eheim instructions, but it doesn't tell you how to go about actually > turning the filter off to service it. Once I turn it off, will the > water automatically drain from the hose? When I try to open the > cannister will water come spewing out? Will it be a big ordeal to turn > it back on and get it running? ACK! Help! As you can see, I'm a > little hesitant to perform this feat for the first time.....any help, > suggestion are kindly needed and appreciated! > > Shari I would guess from your question you did not get the double disconnects with you Eheim. If you did, there will be two sets of shut-off valves on each hose, with a coupling between. If not you should really get two sets, so you can maintain the filter, it will be a real project because you will have to drain and refill the lines. If you do have the shut off valves it's very easy. Un-plug the filter, and shut all of the valves. Separate the shut-off valves, expect a bit of water, that the filter to the sink and do what's needed. You can drain the filter by opening both valves when you get to the sink, it will drain from the lowest point of the filter which will back flush the filter. Close the shut off to the lower side of the filter, and fill it with tank water. Hook everything back up open the valves in order, starting from the inlet side to the outlet side. Plug it in, check for leaks. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Dora, You keep missing the point. Just having nitrospira is not sufficient so I'm not sure why you are so hung up on nitrospira. That is what was wrong for so many years with bacteria-in-a-bottle products.... they had the wrong bacteria, not all of the bacteria needed or it was dead bacteria. Dr. Tim Hovanec is one of the leading scientists in the field of nitrifying bacteria and Bio-Spira (his invention) had three different nitrifying bacteria in it which is why it worked... it had nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. I'm sure they didn't release this information until after they had the patent on Bio-Spira. He probably can't say what's in his new One & Only due to a likely new patent pending process that is going on if indeed the new product does not have to stay refrigerated (once he gets the patent, then he can release the components of the product as it will have patent protection) and also because of likely litigation going on between him, Marineland and Tetra but I would bet my first born child that Dr. Tim's products are FAR SUPERIOR to anything made by Tetra. Heck, with her being such a spoiled brat lately, I might not mind losing that bet right now! Anyone want to put up a nickel against her? ;-) There are literally thousands and thousands of perfectly good products that will not disclose all of the ingredients in them while they are awaiting patent protection. I bet you have dozens of them around your home right now. Even the MSDS' required on household products in the USA will often have "proprietary" listed in their ingredients section but the MSDS only requires them to disclose any harmful compounds so the nitrifying bacteria would not have to be listed anyhow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 11:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Ah, I see. Thakns for clearing that up! Grin. So he expects people to buy his product instead of Safestart, without knowing whether it contains nitrospira, which safestart advertises that it does. There's one in every barrel. Someone will actually buy from him! Won't be me. It is possible that he doesn't want very badly to sell it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. It is you that is confused... lol Marineland merged with Tetra and took Bio-Spira off the market a few months ago. That is when Dr. Tim started up his own company and introduced "One & Only Nitrifying Bacteria" product. If you go to my blog, the one at the top is a recent blog I did about the "new" Bio-Spira that will be put out by Tetra but the email I received from Tetra called it Start Right but then I learned there was already a product called Start Right so I think Tetra found this out also and changed the name to Safe Start... or the person sending me the first email reply could have gotten the name confused in the email to me. In either case, Tetra... or rather United Pet Group (Tetra and Marineland) is the new distributor of Bio-Spira for saltwater and whatever their new product will be called.. Safestart or Start Right.. for freshwater. Dr. Tim was the lead research scientist for Marineland Labs for 17 years and HE holds all of the patents on the Bio-Spira technology but Marineland owned the name "Bio-Spira" so Dr. Tim started his own company, bought the Marineland lab that had been closed down when they merged with Tetra and started producing his own product, One & Only. There were non-compete agreements, confidentiality agreements and possibly some litigation or threats of it which is probably why Dr. Tim doesn't disclose very much to general inquiries. I don't know why you are so hung up on the one bacteria, nitrospira. If you've read my other posts, you will have seen that there are/were three strains of nitrifying bacteria in Bio-Spira and probably the same things in One & Only but he may not be able to disclose them due to threats of litigation. I would buy One & Only over anything from Tetra any day of the week, month, year or lifetime. Tetra has a reputation for sub-standard products and Dr. Tim has a reputation for high standard products. Since both of their products are relatively new, I would bet my money that Dr. Tim's is far superior to Tetra's but you can wait if you want. From everything I've read so far about One & Only, it's more like the original Bio-Spira with the exception that it says it can be kept at room temp for up to six months, which I'm still reserving a right to wonder about but I'll be glad when enough hobbyists have used One & Only to see the final results about it's shelf life at room temp versus refrigeration. I see that DrsFosterSmith.com ships One & Only in overnight cooler packs since temps over 95F will severely harm the bacteria so I'm wondering if Tetra's distribution will take the same pains to keep their products at room temp. I've been in shipping warehouses before down here in the south and I can tell you they get into the 90's so if Tetra isn't putting demands on their distributors, their new product will be dead on arrival... pardon the pun. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Lenny, I think you're probably confused about Bio-Spira and Tetra. Tetra is coming out with safestart- it's a different product. Or is it I'm who is confused - Marineland is going to sell the Tetra product, safestart, instead of Bio-Spira. I'm literally not following you - what would legal issues with Marineland over a different product have to do with whether Dr. Tim tells us whether his own new product contains nitrospira? If the legal problem in question is that Marineland won't be selling Dr. Tim's products at all, that has absolutely no effect on what he decides to tell people about his product. I sure wish Marineland was going to sell safestart this month instead of next. If that's the gist of what you're saying. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:58 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one strain to fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to eat the ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the third strain comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK and I do know that a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products DID NOT WORK. I'm sure his new product, "One & Only", has the same bacteria as Bio-Spira, although it does seem that they've developed a way for it to last a few months at room temp now. See the FAQ's on http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com for more info. U.S. Patents, generally are public record so if you really wanted to see what was in there, you could probably find the patent application information somewhere online. Unless it's something new and proprietary like the process that allows the nitrifying bacteria to stay alive at room temp without ammonia and oxygen.... I'll still have to see it to believe it though. Here is one of Dr. Tim's recent Patents issued 9/11/2007 but applied for in 2003 if you want to do some detailed reading and or search this site for more of his inventions. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7267816-description.html Here's my Google search which found 3,500 hits about "One & Only". http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=The+One+and+Only+Dr.+Ho vanec including a PodCast that came up at the top so you might want to listen to it. Once again, I'd tend to believe in Dr. Hovenac over the Tetra folks any day!!!! Dr. Hovenac probably limits communications about how the new product is made due to legal issues involving his split from Marineland and their decision to get in bed with Tetra. Without seeing any of the issues going on between them, I'd be more likely to believe that Dr. Hovenac's product works where I wouldn't have that same trust with Tetra products. Although many of Tetra's products are probably fine, they also push that stuff, Easy Balance, that tells people they don't have to do water changes but once every six months and the research I did on Easy Balance showed it to be a mix of chemicals, acids and bases and formaldehyde. I think I once jokingly summarized it as being something that kills all your fish but at least the formaldehyde keeps them preserved so they appear to be alive as the filter moves the water around. ;-) Another article I read about Easy Balance had a guppy tank where they guppy didn't breed... and anything that can stop guppy from breeding can't be good for our fish. Dr. Tim is definitely WAY AHEAD of Marineland and Tetra. His products are available from http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com which is one of the very well respected web sites out there. As far as Dr. Tim being a whack job??? Well, most very intelligent people are whack jobs. I know I am and most of my friends and family will verify it. :-D The cause is that we can't have "normal" conversations with the rest of the world so it drives us crazy. People are still amazed at how fast I can type with my nose... over 60wpm... since they won't let me out of this darn straight jacket! Not to mention holding down the shift key when needed but I won't explain how I do that. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that "one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell it on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it but provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. Since I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is supposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. Now, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh bacteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must have nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and only contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't say if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I didn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people are debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also the point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me the bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only possible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will do what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to me sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people would buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to buy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling me it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is suspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains nitrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it contained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in Europe. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell or market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently confident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying the bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the right store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that of the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new formulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec or his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that in another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. He's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not wanting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. http://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have clicked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it from his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you eventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&i d=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to order. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad company, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've always been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking up a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab kit; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough companies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I asked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for Tetra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to say whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as high end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1396 - Release Date: 4/24/2008 6:32 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1396 - Release Date: 4/24/2008 6:32 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions

I received mine in a "breather" fish bag but I've been told the best way to ship them is using the 16 oz. plain water bottles since it's no problem getting the shrimp into them like it might be for fish since the shrimp are so small. I also will add some guppy grass (live plant) so the shrimp have something to hang onto during shipping. It's also how I received mine. As far as I can tell, all of my shrimp made it alive. I think the plastic bottle would be a better option just in case the box was man-handled, it would take quite a bit to damage the plastic bottle surrounded by foam and a box. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 11:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions How do you ship shrimp? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions http://www.Aquabid.com is like an eBay for aquarium related stuff. You can usually find people selling cherry shrimp, amano shrimp, etc. on there. Let me know the best deal you can find on cherry shrimp and I may decide to finally do my first sale. I set up a cherry shrimp tank a while back with plans to breed them for sale to my LFS but I've been too busy with work to worry about it but if you can't find a local seller or a good deal, I'll try to help. I had my first batch of cherry shrimp shipped to me with priority mail (2-day) and they arrived fine I paid $25.00 for my first batch of shrimp, which included shipping charges which was a good deal back then. I'm not sure how much they are even selling for nowadays. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Lenny, I had actually asked her about getting some shrimp to eat the algae, and she doesn't sell them. Chuckle. Should I get the shrimp, and where would you suggest I get them from? Might have to get them online, which I should think poses difficulties. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions You need to look at fish that stay closer to one inch which limits your choices. In a 10G, you would only want 10 small 1" fish and you are planning for five pygmy corys so your other 5-6 fish should be in the lower 1" range. If you went with 5-6 2" fish, you would be overstocked by 50% by even the minimalist of standards. If you don't like the ones you were first interested in, go to my blog and on the right side, there is a link to 10G Stocking Suggestions under the labels section. Read over that article by Hailey and you'll get many other suggestions. Another fish that stays very small is the Galaxy Raspbora so you might want to see if your LFS has them. I wouldn't go with both oto's and pygmy corys since they are both mostly bottom dwellers. Your first plan to go with the pygmy corys (bottom dwellers) and a small school of small tetras would be a more visually active tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Actually after visiting the fish store I'm no longer sure I want these particular fish - their flashy stripes are too flashy! I'm looking into other small hardy fish. I want medium dark plain fishy looking with subtle color and a little bit of bright won't hurt - but not that much bright. Length not over 2 inches. Not of the < 6.5 ph or hard to keep variety, and want to avoid needs 80 degrees. Fish store suggested otys in addition to pygmy corys. One eats food scraps and the other algae. She looked at me when she heard that pygmy corys must be kept in groups of atleast five - suggested two or three of each for a ten gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Neon Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html Glowlight Tetra - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.html Black Neon - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_herbertaxelrodi.html As you can see from their scientific names (the last part of the URL's), they are different species, although all from the same Characin family. I've seen forum posts and articles about inter-species schooling but it's not something that is guaranteed nor should it be part of your planning UNLESS you have an agreement with your fish store that you can bring back fish that do not school and swap them out for ones of the same species. The Black Neon's get bigger than the Neon Tetra's and Glowlight Tetra's. Since you are already dealing with a small tank where you will be stocking it completely to the limits, you should stick with the smaller species to help avoid an overstocking situation. I've never kept Neon's or Glowlights so I do not know if they will inter-school or not so maybe someone else in the group will have an opinion on this or you could just try it and see if they do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Question. Do I have to get for instance 5-6 neon tetras, or could I get 3 neon tetras and 3 black neon tetras, or 3 glowlight tetras and three black neon tetras? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] setting up 10 gallon aquarium - have questions Since they only grow to around an inch, you could have five of them and a school of 5-6 neon tetras and if you go with some live plants to help the overall ecology of the tank, you shouldn't have any overstocking problems. For more ideas about 10G tank stocking, go to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com and on the right side in the labels section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions which will give you lots of other ideas you might want to consider. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1396 - Release Date: 4/24/2008 6:32 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27359	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: Newt trouble

Go to my blog and on the right side, I have a Disease & Illness article if this link breaks... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment.ht ml and I have instructions on how to find a university biology dept., etc., in your area that might help. I also have searches listed that will find vets that handle fish and exotics. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of endoaware_girl06 Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newt trouble I have been trying the frozen blood worms. he will not eat them. I cant get ghost shrimp or meal worms. i dont think he is very aquatic, is stays on land alot. where i live vets are normally just for cats, dogs, and horses. and no local zoo. so it sucks. i dont know how to get in contact with a herp specialist. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > How aquatic are they? If they will hunt in the water, have you tried ghost > shrimp…what about meal worms? You can cut them up in small bits of you need > to. They still wiggle which will elicit a predation response from the newt. > You should probably contact a local vet and find out if they handle newts > (most have Herp specialists or at least have contact with one) and if not if > they should know where you could go. You could probably contact your local > zoo or Aquarium if you have one near you (or even call one like the John G. > Shedd Aquarium in Chicago…I am sure they could help you with some advice and > point you to some resources. Places like that are VERY committed to > animals). They may be able to help you as well. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of H3ATH3R > Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 11:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newt trouble > > > > My fire belly newt that I had in a 20 gallon with my fish (9 years ago) ate > the fish food (flakes) and frozen blood worms. I had him with my 2 discus > for many years until I filled the tank too full one day and my kitty had him > for a snack. > > -----Original Message----- > From: endoaware_girl06 <endoaware_girl06@ > <mailto:endoaware_girl06%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newt trouble > > Hi I just joined this group looking for some help. I have a fire belly > newt that I had just bought. I have had him for a few days. He will > not eat. I have tried dried and frozen food. It is hard for me to find > live food for him. Is there any thing I can try to do to keep him from > dying. Ive tried alot. I have even cut up night crawlers and crickets > to try to feed to him but they still seem to big. I might be able to > get him some pinhead crickets monday but that seems to far away for > him. He is starting to slow down and become weak. Is there any thing I > can do to keep him alive alittle longer? > > If any one here cant help me can you give my message to some one who > might be able to? > > thank you so much for any help. > > Gina > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1396 - Release Date: 4/24/2008 6:32 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27360	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: filter

If you are in the good ole USA, go to this page and download an owners manual. http://www.eheim.com/base/eheim/inhalte/index1e78.html?key=downloads_25071_e hen&list=afilter If you aren't in the good ole USA (or if that link breaks), go to http://www.eheim.com and click on your country, then click on Downloads and it will bring you to a page with the different types of filters... I clicked on External on that page to get to the Eheim Classic filter section. Download the .pdf file and you should have much more detailed instructions... in case nobody out here replies. I've never owned an Eheim, although I hear they are very good products, so I can't help with any details. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 7:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] filter I have an eheim classic cannister and I've had my tank up and running for about 2 months now. When I assembled the cannister materials there is a carbon pad that goes inside that's supposed to be removed after 2 weeks (according to the directions) - my dilemma is I've checked my Eheim instructions, but it doesn't tell you how to go about actually turning the filter off to service it. Once I turn it off, will the water automatically drain from the hose? When I try to open the cannister will water come spewing out? Will it be a big ordeal to turn it back on and get it running? ACK! Help! As you can see, I'm a little hesitant to perform this feat for the first time.....any help, suggestion are kindly needed and appreciated! Shari No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1396 - Release Date: 4/24/2008 6:32 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27361	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2008
Subject: Re: filter

Sam, My newer Rena Filstar XP's are much simpler. I unplug it. Wait a minute. Then I simply lift up a lever on the top of the canister unit which closes the valve to the two tubes and then that section lifts off the top of my filter system. No water drains out of either of the tubes (inflow and outflow). Then I remove the canister reservoir which has the motor housing still clamped to the top of it. Bring it to my sink and do my cleaning (No, I don't use tap water on all of my filter media but I might thoroughly clean 1/4th of the filter media each cleaning. The rest I just squish and squeeze in some dechlored tap water. After I put it all back together, I fill the canister reservoir with some dechlored tap water, snap the motor housing back on the top, connect the two hoses that are connected to that one valve plate section, wait a minute, plug it in and voila.. it works with no priming or anything else needed. I only clean out my hoses once or twice a year when needed. They are clear/opaque so I can tell when they are getting too much algae buildup in them. I've been using two different models of Rena Filstar XP's for several years now and I'm completely satisfied with them. No impeller problems, no gasket/o-ring problems, no problems whatsoever. I hope API/Rena is reading this and will send me my monthly check now! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] filter Hi Shari, I must start by saying I do not have one of the brand of filters you have but I have been doing canister filters for many years. A filter like you have is a closed system. That means that anywhere you break a water tight seal out will come water! This is how I handle mine and most all of mine are Fluval of various years. First you need to get some buckets. Usually a small manageable one will do and then a larger one for your first time. Step one turn off the pump- usually done by unplugging it. Step two is pull out of the tank the tube that take the water out of the tank and place that in the larger bucket- water will always run down hill. So it may partially drain. 3rd take the return tube- hose and allow it to drain into the bucket. When most all of the water is drained out by holding the output hose section down low, I usually either dump that water out and come back with the bucket empty because of weight. 4th, With both intake and output hose up high Pick up the pump and transport to the washtub or where you clean them. Once in the wash tub I usually open the pump quickly because I have small fish and usually there are some babies in the bottom of the water that is left in the canister. That is when I get the media out and look in the bottom of the canister with a bright light and use a small net to fish out babies and put into the tank again near the bottom so they can hide. If all your fish are large without little ones, you can skip this step. Some pumps have turnoff valves in the hose just above the canister section to hold the water in the hose until you clean the filter. It may be a good idea but my hoses usually need cleaning as well anyway. Keep in mind as you clean this to see if you can try and keep bacteria in the lower section that eats ammonia and turns it into Nitrite. Otherwise unless you have two filters, you might end up fresh cycling your tank which is not desirable. After I do all the cleaning,including the inpellor and all the stuff used for the pump. I put the new media back into the canister and fill with water. Then put the cover on and fill the hoses until the water in the intake hose is seen and the exit hose is near full too. by tipping the canister in a pitch so the output is higher the bubble that are in it will be removed or escape. When you have inspected the canister for leaks in that the O rind is not seated right or other reasons, if there are no leaks you are ready to put back to the tank. Keep both hoses high. Hook the intake hose or place it onto the tube in the tank. Now comes a bucket again- take the exit hose and allow the water to drain a little into the bucket starting a siphon. This will dump some of the new media carbon or other stuff into the first water coming out as well as get bubbles out of the canister. When you are satisfied- a few inches of water in the bucket, you can stop the water flow with your finger and hook the exit hose to the sprayer or return tube to the tank. At this point if everything is secure and no leaks are showing, then you can plug in the pump and the filter will start to filter again. Once you have done this a few times it will be easy. Thinks to watch out for- If you use a spray return like I do (these are tubes with little holes drilled in them 1 inch apart), make sure they are aimed into the tank as it can be a big surprise to have them aimed the wrong way and power up the filter pump. It is best to alternate month of filter cleaning on two filters per tank. This way there is no shock to the system when one is cleaned too well and has no more bacteria in it. It will regenerate quickly as the other filter and the tank system will get bacteria that you need back in that filter in a few days. If you have any questions, I can tell you how I handle them. I have two 55 gallon and a pond outside 17X10 feet 48" deep. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. shari rivenburg wrote: > > I have an eheim classic cannister and I've had my tank up and running > for about 2 months now. When I assembled the cannister materials there > is a carbon pad that goes inside that's supposed to be removed after 2 > weeks (according to the directions) - my dilemma is I've checked my > Eheim instructions, but it doesn't tell you how to go about actually > turning the filter off to service it. Once I turn it off, will the > water automatically drain from the hose? When I try to open the > cannister will water come spewing out? Will it be a big ordeal to turn > it back on and get it running? ACK! Help! As you can see, I'm a little > hesitant to perform this feat for the first time.....any help, > suggestion are kindly needed and appreciated! > > Shari > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1396 - Release Date: 4/24/2008 6:32 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27362	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: filter

Hi Lenny, I will give it consideration when I replace my old Fluval filters. I have been aggravated by their cheap plastic impeller covers and the one filter impeller finally stop turning so the canister is being used with an external pump which now still works very well. I know what you mean with the lift the latch on the newer filters, I was trying to explain a process not unique to the use of fancy filter types in case she did not have one of those. Where do you get your dechlorinated water? Do you run a RO filter system where the water builds up over time? I put most of my water in the two tanks through a Brita filter except when using the Python suction system where it gets refilled from the tap which is about a 1/4 PWC. BTW, I have been reading your many good suggestions for aquarium maintenance for the time I have been involved in this Forum. I guess I am more a lurker than an active person in this group most of the time- too busy with a group that keeps me busy fixing reel to reel machines. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Sam, > > My newer Rena Filstar XP's are much simpler. I unplug it. Wait a minute. > Then I simply lift up a lever on the top of the canister unit which closes > the valve to the two tubes and then that section lifts off the top of my > filter system. No water drains out of either of the tubes (inflow and > outflow). Then I remove the canister reservoir which has the motor housing > still clamped to the top of it. Bring it to my sink and do my cleaning (No, > I don't use tap water on all of my filter media but I might thoroughly clean > 1/4th of the filter media each cleaning. The rest I just squish and squeeze > in some dechlored tap water. > > After I put it all back together, I fill the canister reservoir with some > dechlored tap water, snap the motor housing back on the top, connect the two > hoses that are connected to that one valve plate section, wait a minute, > plug it in and voila.. it works with no priming or anything else needed. > > I only clean out my hoses once or twice a year when needed. They are > clear/opaque so I can tell when they are getting too much algae buildup in > them. > > I've been using two different models of Rena Filstar XP's for several years > now and I'm completely satisfied with them. No impeller problems, no > gasket/o-ring problems, no problems whatsoever. I hope API/Rena is reading > this and will send me my monthly check now! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Sam Palermo > Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] filter > > Hi Shari, > I must start by saying I do not have one of the brand of filters you have > but I have been doing canister filters for many years. A filter like you > have is a closed system. That means that anywhere you break a water tight > seal out will come water! > This is how I handle mine and most all of mine are Fluval of various years. > First you need to get some buckets. Usually a small manageable one will do > and then a larger one for your first time. > Step one turn off the pump- usually done by unplugging it. > Step two is pull out of the tank the tube that take the water out of the > tank and place that in the larger bucket- water will always run down hill. > So it may partially drain. > 3rd take the return tube- hose and allow it to drain into the bucket. When > most all of the water is drained out by holding the output hose section down > low, I usually either dump that water out and come back with the bucket > empty because of weight. > 4th, With both intake and output hose up high Pick up the pump and transport > to the washtub or where you clean them. Once in the wash tub I usually open > the pump quickly because I have small fish and usually there are some babies > in the bottom of the water that is left in the canister. That is when I get > the media out and look in the bottom of the canister with a bright light and > use a small net to fish out babies and put into the tank again near the > bottom so they can hide. If all your fish are large without little ones, you > can skip this step. > Some pumps have turnoff valves in the hose just above the canister section > to hold the water in the hose until you clean the filter. > It may be a good idea but my hoses usually need cleaning as well anyway. > Keep in mind as you clean this to see if you can try and keep bacteria in > the lower section that eats ammonia and turns it into Nitrite. Otherwise > unless you have two filters, you might end up fresh cycling your tank which > is not desirable. > > After I do all the cleaning,including the inpellor and all the stuff used > for the pump. I put the new media back into the canister and fill with > water. Then put the cover on and fill the hoses until the water in the > intake hose is seen and the exit hose is near full too. by tipping the > canister in a pitch so the output is higher the bubble that are in it will > be removed or escape. > When you have inspected the canister for leaks in that the O rind is not > seated right or other reasons, if there are no leaks you are ready to put > back to the tank. Keep both hoses high. > Hook the intake hose or place it onto the tube in the tank. Now comes a > bucket again- take the exit hose and allow the water to drain a little into > the bucket starting a siphon. This will dump some of the new media carbon or > other stuff into the first water coming out as well as get bubbles out of > the canister. When you are satisfied- a few inches of water in the bucket, > you can stop the water flow with your finger and hook the exit hose to the > sprayer or return tube to the tank. At this point if everything is secure > and no leaks are showing, then you can plug in the pump and the filter will > start to filter again. Once you have done this a few times it will be easy. > Thinks to watch out for- If you use a spray return like I do (these are > tubes with little holes drilled in them 1 inch apart), make sure they are > aimed into the tank as it can be a big surprise to have them aimed the wrong > way and power up the filter pump. > It is best to alternate month of filter cleaning on two filters per tank. > This way there is no shock to the system when one is cleaned too well and > has no more bacteria in it. It will regenerate quickly as the other filter > and the tank system will get bacteria that you need back in that filter in a > few days. > > If you have any questions, I can tell you how I handle them. I have two 55 > gallon and a pond outside 17X10 feet 48" deep. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > shari rivenburg wrote: > >> I have an eheim classic cannister and I've had my tank up and running >> for about 2 months now. When I assembled the cannister materials there >> is a carbon pad that goes inside that's supposed to be removed after 2 >> weeks (according to the directions) - my dilemma is I've checked my >> Eheim instructions, but it doesn't tell you how to go about actually >> turning the filter off to service it. Once I turn it off, will the >> water automatically drain from the hose? When I try to open the >> cannister will water come spewing out? Will it be a big ordeal to turn >> it back on and get it running? ACK! Help! As you can see, I'm a little >> hesitant to perform this feat for the first time.....any help, >> suggestion are kindly needed and appreciated! >> >> Shari >> >> >> > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1396 - Release Date: 4/24/2008 > 6:32 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27363	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Relationship alert! OK, now that is out of the way, if Tim says the product does x, and I need a product that does x, I'd buy it without question. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Ah, I see. Thakns for clearing that up! Grin. So he expects people to buy his product instead of Safestart, without knowing whether it contains nitrospira, which safestart advertises that it does. There's one in every barrel. Someone will actually buy from him! Won't be me. It is possible that he doesn't want very badly to sell it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. It is you that is confused... lol Marineland merged with Tetra and took Bio-Spira off the market a few months ago. That is when Dr. Tim started up his own company and introduced "One & Only Nitrifying Bacteria" product. If you go to my blog, the one at the top is a recent blog I did about the "new" Bio-Spira that will be put out by Tetra but the email I received from Tetra called it Start Right but then I learned there was already a product called Start Right so I think Tetra found this out also and changed the name to Safe Start... or the person sending me the first email reply could have gotten the name confused in the email to me. In either case, Tetra... or rather United Pet Group (Tetra and Marineland) is the new distributor of Bio-Spira for saltwater and whatever their new product will be called.. Safestart or Start Right.. for freshwater. Dr. Tim was the lead research scientist for Marineland Labs for 17 years and HE holds all of the patents on the Bio-Spira technology but Marineland owned the name "Bio-Spira" so Dr. Tim started his own company, bought the Marineland lab that had been closed down when they merged with Tetra and started producing his own product, One & Only. There were non-compete agreements, confidentiality agreements and possibly some litigation or threats of it which is probably why Dr. Tim doesn't disclose very much to general inquiries. I don't know why you are so hung up on the one bacteria, nitrospira. If you've read my other posts, you will have seen that there are/were three strains of nitrifying bacteria in Bio-Spira and probably the same things in One & Only but he may not be able to disclose them due to threats of litigation. I would buy One & Only over anything from Tetra any day of the week, month, year or lifetime. Tetra has a reputation for sub-standard products and Dr. Tim has a reputation for high standard products. Since both of their products are relatively new, I would bet my money that Dr. Tim's is far superior to Tetra's but you can wait if you want. From everything I've read so far about One & Only, it's more like the original Bio-Spira with the exception that it says it can be kept at room temp for up to six months, which I'm still reserving a right to wonder about but I'll be glad when enough hobbyists have used One & Only to see the final results about it's shelf life at room temp versus refrigeration. I see that DrsFosterSmith.com ships One & Only in overnight cooler packs since temps over 95F will severely harm the bacteria so I'm wondering if Tetra's distribution will take the same pains to keep their products at room temp. I've been in shipping warehouses before down here in the south and I can tell you they get into the 90's so if Tetra isn't putting demands on their distributors, their new product will be dead on arrival... pardon the pun. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Lenny, I think you're probably confused about Bio-Spira and Tetra. Tetra is coming out with safestart- it's a different product. Or is it I'm who is confused - Marineland is going to sell the Tetra product, safestart, instead of Bio-Spira. I'm literally not following you - what would legal issues with Marineland over a different product have to do with whether Dr. Tim tells us whether his own new product contains nitrospira? If the legal problem in question is that Marineland won't be selling Dr. Tim's products at all, that has absolutely no effect on what he decides to tell people about his product. I sure wish Marineland was going to sell safestart this month instead of next. If that's the gist of what you're saying. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:58 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one strain to fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to eat the ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the third strain comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK and I do know that a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products DID NOT WORK. I'm sure his new product, "One & Only", has the same bacteria as Bio-Spira, although it does seem that they've developed a way for it to last a few months at room temp now. See the FAQ's on http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com for more info. U.S. Patents, generally are public record so if you really wanted to see what was in there, you could probably find the patent application information somewhere online. Unless it's something new and proprietary like the process that allows the nitrifying bacteria to stay alive at room temp without ammonia and oxygen.... I'll still have to see it to believe it though. Here is one of Dr. Tim's recent Patents issued 9/11/2007 but applied for in 2003 if you want to do some detailed reading and or search this site for more of his inventions. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7267816-description.html Here's my Google search which found 3,500 hits about "One & Only". http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=The+One+and+Only+Dr.+Ho vanec including a PodCast that came up at the top so you might want to listen to it. Once again, I'd tend to believe in Dr. Hovenac over the Tetra folks any day!!!! Dr. Hovenac probably limits communications about how the new product is made due to legal issues involving his split from Marineland and their decision to get in bed with Tetra. Without seeing any of the issues going on between them, I'd be more likely to believe that Dr. Hovenac's product works where I wouldn't have that same trust with Tetra products. Although many of Tetra's products are probably fine, they also push that stuff, Easy Balance, that tells people they don't have to do water changes but once every six months and the research I did on Easy Balance showed it to be a mix of chemicals, acids and bases and formaldehyde. I think I once jokingly summarized it as being something that kills all your fish but at least the formaldehyde keeps them preserved so they appear to be alive as the filter moves the water around. ;-) Another article I read about Easy Balance had a guppy tank where they guppy didn't breed... and anything that can stop guppy from breeding can't be good for our fish. Dr. Tim is definitely WAY AHEAD of Marineland and Tetra. His products are available from http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com which is one of the very well respected web sites out there. As far as Dr. Tim being a whack job??? Well, most very intelligent people are whack jobs. I know I am and most of my friends and family will verify it. :-D The cause is that we can't have "normal" conversations with the rest of the world so it drives us crazy. People are still amazed at how fast I can type with my nose... over 60wpm... since they won't let me out of this darn straight jacket! Not to mention holding down the shift key when needed but I won't explain how I do that. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that "one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell it on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it but provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. Since I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is supposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. Now, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh bacteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must have nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and only contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't say if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I didn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people are debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also the point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me the bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only possible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will do what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to me sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people would buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to buy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling me it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is suspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains nitrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it contained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in Europe. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell or market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently confident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying the bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the right store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that of the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new formulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec or his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that in another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. He's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not wanting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. http://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have clicked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it from his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you eventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&i d=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to order. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad company, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've always been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking up a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab kit; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough companies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I asked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for Tetra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to say whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as high end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. *´Ż`*.¸¸.><((((ş>.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸><((((ş> ¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸<ş((((><¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..<ş((((><*´Ż`*.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. *´Ż`*.¸¸.><((((ş>.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸><((((ş> ¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸<ş((((><¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..<ş((((><*´Ż`*.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27364	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Bio-Spira Strains

I wonder if the third strain is used for nitrite eating in environments where the nitrosospira is not comfortable. All microbes have a max amount of chemicals they can tolerate, what they eat and what they poo being two of the major ones. :) -Lana On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one strain > to > fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to eat the > ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the third strain > comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK and I do know > that > a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products DID NOT WORK. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27365	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Because the other products have the other two bacteria. Nitrospira is the one only some of them have. Dr. Tim could be brilliant AND a nut. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 10:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Dora, You keep missing the point. Just having nitrospira is not sufficient so I'm not sure why you are so hung up on nitrospira. That is what was wrong for so many years with bacteria-in-a-bottle products.... they had the wrong bacteria, not all of the bacteria needed or it was dead bacteria. Dr. Tim -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27366	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains

One theory is that the other two actually die off and the nitrospira take over. Not I've studied it in any detail. But apparently the biospira is teh ingredient that makes the product fast cycling. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Lana Gibbons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 8:07 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira Strains I wonder if the third strain is used for nitrite eating in environments where the nitrosospira is not comfortable. All microbes have a max amount of chemicals they can tolerate, what they eat and what they poo being two of the major ones. :) -Lana On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one strain > to > fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to eat the > ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the third strain > comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK and I do know > that > a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products DID NOT WORK. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27367	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

I'm sure he probably thinks the same of you after reading all of your posts about him. LOL I can't know for certain that he's reading these posts but most companies now have someone in charge of monitoring what is said about them on the internet via RSS feeds, Google searches, etc. We recently had a company representative from Glo-Fish comment in this forum since we were discussing/debating them so I know for certain it can/does happen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Because the other products have the other two bacteria. Nitrospira is the one only some of them have. Dr. Tim could be brilliant AND a nut. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 10:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Dora, You keep missing the point. Just having nitrospira is not sufficient so I'm not sure why you are so hung up on nitrospira. That is what was wrong for so many years with bacteria-in-a-bottle products.... they had the wrong bacteria, not all of the bacteria needed or it was dead bacteria. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27368	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Lenny, Heiko Bleher Popped up on a small forum recently and threatened legal action for comments made about him and his most recent publication. The aquarium community can be a small world. -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 12:24:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: We recently had a company representative from Glo-Fish comment in this forum since we were discussing/debating them so I know for certain it can/does happen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27369	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains

NO DORA... I'm not sure where your "theory" comes from but there is one well-known bacteria that consumes ammonia and converts it to nitrite and another that we now know about that consumes the nitrite and converts it to nitrate. You need both of these to complete the nitrogen cycle. I really do not know where you got so stuck on nitrospira as the main or only bacteria (you referred to it as "biospira" in your post but you mentioned nitrospira earlier in the same paragraph so I'm presuming you meant nitrospira). For years and/or decades, it was thought that the two nitrifying bacteria in FW aquaria were nitrosomonas for ammonia and nitrobacter for nitrite (you can still find these references in older articles about the nitrogen cycle in aquaria) but Dr. Tim's research (which I might add has been heavily peer reviewed and proven with actual working products) proved it was not nitrobacter but rather nitrosospira and nitrospira which is why the original Bio-Spira contained nitrosomonas and these other two. It worked where the other products that only contained one strain or the wrong strains did not work as advertised. I'm ending this debate with you at this point unless you come up with something new on your part as I've stated and restated the "facts" as I know them and I've given links to the actual patents and to peer reviewed science and you simply do not want to let all this knowledge in because of some perceived personality clash between you and Dr. Tim. There's that old saying about you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink and I think that's where we stand on this issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 1:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira Strains One theory is that the other two actually die off and the nitrospira take over. Not I've studied it in any detail. But apparently the biospira is teh ingredient that makes the product fast cycling. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lana Gibbons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 8:07 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira Strains I wonder if the third strain is used for nitrite eating in environments where the nitrosospira is not comfortable. All microbes have a max amount of chemicals they can tolerate, what they eat and what they poo being two of the major ones. :) -Lana On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one > strain to fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to > eat the ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the > third strain comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK > and I do know that a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products > DID NOT WORK. > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27370	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains

Well, you wouldn't want only Nitrospira in your aquarium, because then there'd be nothing around to make nitrite from ammonia (NitroSOspira and Nitrosonomas are responsible for that). With no nitrite producers, there'd be nothing around for Nitrospira to eat and as a result it would die off due to lack of food (and the ammonia levels in your aquarium would skyrocket, likely killing your fish too). So there's no way that theory would work: at least two of the three strains must survive and one of them must be the Nitrospira (as there is no Nitrobacter in the product). Ammonia eaters: Nitrosospira, Nitrosonomas Nitrite eaters: Nitrospira, Nitrobacter You need at least one from each category. Most bacteria products, from what I've gathered, are a combo of Nitrosonomas and Nitrobacter. BioSpira is unique in that it includes both Nitrospira and NitroSOspira - and it is likely the Nitrosonomas isn't really needed in the product - although it may have been included due to it's ability to withstand high levels of ammonia. So with that I find I must correct my original statement. It should have been: "I wonder if the third strain is used for AMMONIA eating in environments where the nitrosospira is not comfortable." -Lana On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > One theory is that the other two actually die off and the nitrospira take > over. Not I've studied it in any detail. But apparently the biospira is > teh ingredient that makes the product fast cycling. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27371	From: ssmlls	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Offer: Oscar Fish

He is to big for our 55 gallon aquarium. He is very aggravate and need to be in an aquarium much bigger and alone. He will eat other fish. He is stressed and need a new home fast. Thanks! Sue

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27372	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Mike, I haven't gotten to the point of monitoring my name or pen names with an RSS reader, etc. but I do occasionally do a Google on myself and my pen names or a paragraph out of my articles and I've found my blog articles plagiarized as new articles in other forums as if written by someone else. After a few emails with the moderators/owners of those sites, my article(s) were either taken down or properly credited to me. Do people not know they will get caught when plagiarizing nowadays? It's not like the old days where we could almost quote Cliff's Notes verbatim and the English teacher would never know. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Lenny, Heiko Bleher Popped up on a small forum recently and threatened legal action for comments made about him and his most recent publication. The aquarium community can be a small world. -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 12:24:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: We recently had a company representative from Glo-Fish comment in this forum since we were discussing/debating them so I know for certain it can/does happen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851 <http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851> ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27373	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Offer: Oscar Fish

Sue, Please let everyone know where you live. -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 12:49:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ssmlls@... writes: He is to big for our 55 gallon aquarium. He is very aggravate and need to be in an aquarium much bigger and alone. He will eat other fish. He is stressed and need a new home fast. Thanks! Sue **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27374	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Lenny, That must be very frustrating! You put a lot of effort into writing your articles and posting them for all to read. Your only goal has been to help people and their fish out. Dr. Ron Coleman had a similar thing happen with his cichlid research. Some one had printed his pictures of cichlid eggs into posters and was trying to sell them at an aquarium event. Personally I would be embarrassed to copy a blog or article and try and portray it as my own. Since college I always make an effort to quote or cite my sources or at LEAST make the statement that I read it somewhere and cannot recall the source. At least that much is honest and I am taking no credit for the knowledge. I guess in this day and age of copy and paste people pay no mind to theft. -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 12:51:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I haven't gotten to the point of monitoring my name or pen names with an RSS reader, etc. but I do occasionally do a Google on myself and my pen names or a paragraph out of my articles and I've found my blog articles plagiarized as new articles in other forums as if written by someone else. After a few emails with the moderators/owners of those sites, my article(s) were either taken down or properly credited to me. Do people not know they will get caught when plagiarizing nowadays? It's not like the old days where we could almost quote Cliff's Notes verbatim and the English teacher would never know. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27375	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

Hi again Chris, Sorry, but I put this in my ToDo folder and I'm just now getting around to looking through it so I'm several days late in replying. I didn't mean to "ignore" your reply. 1) While molly's and some tetras may be compatible, you can't cover it with a blanket statement since there are species of tetras from all over the world. Here are the profiles on the two you mentioned. Serpae Tetra (aka Jewel Tetra) http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html and the Diamond Tetra http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html and while they both like similar water parameters (lower pH and softer water), molly's are not listed in the SC section (Suggested Companions) because molly's, like most livebearers, prefer harder water with a higher pH and the addition of some salt http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm (scroll half way down). I wouldn't mix the two species for long term success. 2) It's best to have full schools of fish that prefer to be in schools but I have seen intra-species schooling from fish in the same family like your tetras. If you have sufficient room to handle the bioload, it would be better to give them each their own school. As you will see from the above profiles, http://fish.mongabay.com has some of the best fish care profiles on the internet and also include a reference section on each one so you can read up quite a bit on your fish. It's a good place to start when gathering initial information on a potential or new fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris McCarthy Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank Hi Lenny - Thanks for the quick response! The message you're thinking of wasn't from me - I just joined about three weeks ago, and this was my first post. I do get the compiled digest of e-mails once a day - I thought that included all of the posts, but maybe I did miss some. After reading your message and before writing back, I looked through older messages (but not all 27,000), and didn't see anything similar. There was a recent one from a fellow asking about the number of tetras for an 8 gallon, and some older ones asking about salt as a curative, but nothing that really addressed what I am looking to learn about. There did seem to be a number of members who keep mollies and tetras together, but I couldn't find any reference to how much salt (if any) is used. My wife has a ten gallon with four mollies, and keeps three tablespoons of salt in it, and they're doing well. My daughter would like some in her tank, but I want to hear from some more experienced folk before making any decisions. Thanks again! - Chris -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:55 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank Hi Chris, Didn't we go over this recently.. in the past several weeks? It sure seems familiar. Maybe you missed the replies due to spam filtering or something or maybe I'm just morphing it into another fish keepers questions. If so, I apologize, I just didn't want to start all over if there is a pre-existing thread about your situation. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mathhaven Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank About two months ago, I moved my daughter's tetras (3 serpae & 4 diamond) from an overcrowded 10 gallon to a used 29 gallon I bought. The transition went well, and our three dwarf frogs are enjoying the old ten gallon. Last month I got her four cherry barbs, and they've fit in quite nicely, and get along well with the tetras. I'm considering getting her some mollies (2 females and a male), but I have some questions first... 1. Nearly all my research says that mollies and tetras are compatible, but it also says that mollies like some salt, and tetras do not like any. It seems like either could tolerate the other's salinity, but would be stressed by doing so. If anyone keeps these two together, how much salt per gallon do you add? 2. So far, all our fish seem happy and compatible. Feeding time is a frenzy, but a peaceful one. My research has also led me to believe that I should have six of each type (which would overstock the 29 gallon even without any tetras). The serpaes sometimes swim with the diamonds, sometimes just on their own (the cherry barbs usually just do their own thing). Am I stressing them by not having a full school of each? Are there certain behaviors I should look for before making any more stocking decisions? I'm not in any particular rush. Thanks for any advise. - Chris No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 3:01 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27376	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Bio-Wheel

Does anyone know if you can reuse a Bio-Wheel after it has been out of service and dried up?  It was only in service for about a month.  I realize that all of the bacteria that had grown on it would be dead.  I was wondering if I soaked it in dechlorinated water and rinsed it very well  if it would be safe to reuse it or should it be replaced.   Thanks,    Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27377	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel

Absolutely. They are reusable, never throw one away. Sure soak it in the water or put it back in dry. It will eventually absorb water and get bacteria on it. Do have a have a tank already set up with fish and running with a functioning filter? -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 3:46:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mchaneyjm@... writes: Does anyone know if you can reuse a Bio-Wheel after it has been out of service and dried up? It was only in service for about a month. I realize that all of the bacteria that had grown on it would be dead. I was wondering if I soaked it in dechlorinated water and rinsed it very well if it would be safe to reuse it or should it be replaced. Thanks, Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27378	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel

I don’t see why not Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bio-Wheel Does anyone know if you can reuse a Bio-Wheel after it has been out of service and dried up? It was only in service for about a month. I realize that all of the bacteria that had grown on it would be dead. I was wondering if I soaked it in dechlorinated water and rinsed it very well if it would be safe to reuse it or should it be replaced. Thanks, Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27379	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel

My only concern was that the dead bacteria on the Bio-Wheel might not be removed by soaking and rinsing and might cause some contamination of the aquarium water when put back in service.  But I don't believe this would be a problem if it was put back on an aquarium and allowed to go through fish-less cycling.   Someone mentioned earlier that if the electricity was off for over two hours and came back on there might be a problem with the dead beneficial bacteria in a canister filter restarting and being flushed into the aquarium water.  I assume the bacteria must remain damp as well as oxygenated to live.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: "Deenerz@..." <Deenerz@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:52:00 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bio-Wheel Absolutely. They are reusable, never throw one away. Sure soak it in the water or put it back in dry. It will eventually absorb water and get bacteria on it. Do have a have a tank already set up with fish and running with a functioning filter? -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 3:46:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mchaneyjm@yahoo. com writes: Does anyone know if you can reuse a Bio-Wheel after it has been out of service and dried up? It was only in service for about a month. I realize that all of the bacteria that had grown on it would be dead. I was wondering if I soaked it in dechlorinated water and rinsed it very well if it would be safe to reuse it or should it be replaced. Thanks, Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ************ **Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos. aol.com/used? NCID=aolcmp00300 000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27380	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel

Jimmy, I think with a dried out biowheel this would not be a problem. A canister filter dumping a good volume of wet dead bacteria might cause problems. In my own experience I have use many sponges filters and biowheels that have been dried out for sometime and not experienced any problems when reusing them. But by all means a good soak and gently shaking of the biowheel to rinse it will not hurt the wheel at all. Just don't lose the little blue plastic bearings on the axles of the biowheel. At times my biowheel filters come to a stop from low water flow and after a few days I note it and fix the problem. So far no problems have arisen from this. -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 4:18:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mchaneyjm@... writes: My only concern was that the dead bacteria on the Bio-Wheel might not be removed by soaking and rinsing and might cause some contamination of the aquarium water when put back in service. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27381	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel

Thanks Mike.  That's good to know.  Next time I'll try to just move it to another aquarium and keep it going if possible.  The filter it was in was creating to much turbulence in the aquarium I had it in so I replaced it with a smaller one.  Was just wondering if I should try to reuse it if and when I need it again.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: "Deenerz@..." <Deenerz@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:26:59 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bio-Wheel Jimmy, I think with a dried out biowheel this would not be a problem. A canister filter dumping a good volume of wet dead bacteria might cause problems. In my own experience I have use many sponges filters and biowheels that have been dried out for sometime and not experienced any problems when reusing them. But by all means a good soak and gently shaking of the biowheel to rinse it will not hurt the wheel at all. Just don't lose the little blue plastic bearings on the axles of the biowheel. At times my biowheel filters come to a stop from low water flow and after a few days I note it and fix the problem. So far no problems have arisen from this. -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 4:18:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mchaneyjm@yahoo. com writes: My only concern was that the dead bacteria on the Bio-Wheel might not be removed by soaking and rinsing and might cause some contamination of the aquarium water when put back in service. ************ **Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos. aol.com/used? NCID=aolcmp00300 000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27382	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

No, I can see you thinking that - but actually the same company, or group thereof, that has marketed the product in Europe will now market it in the U.S. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: hessam abdi To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 12:26 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. dear lenny thanks alot for your nice informations "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: It is you that is confused... lol Marineland merged with Tetra and took Bio-Spira off the market a few months ago. That is when Dr. Tim started up his own company and introduced "One & Only Nitrifying Bacteria" product. If you go to my blog, the one at the top is a recent blog I did about the "new" Bio-Spira that will be put out by Tetra but the email I received from Tetra called it Start Right but then I learned there was already a product called Start Right so I think Tetra found this out also and changed the name to Safe Start... or the person sending me the first email reply could have gotten the name confused in the email to me. In either case, Tetra... or rather United Pet Group (Tetra and Marineland) is the new distributor of Bio-Spira for saltwater and whatever their new product will be called.. Safestart or Start Right.. for freshwater. Dr. Tim was the lead research scientist for Marineland Labs for 17 years and HE holds all of the patents on the Bio-Spira technology but Marineland owned the name "Bio-Spira" so Dr. Tim started his own company, bought the Marineland lab that had been closed down when they merged with Tetra and started producing his own product, One & Only. There were non-compete agreements, confidentiality agreements and possibly some litigation or threats of it which is probably why Dr. Tim doesn't disclose very much to general inquiries. I don't know why you are so hung up on the one bacteria, nitrospira. If you've read my other posts, you will have seen that there are/were three strains of nitrifying bacteria in Bio-Spira and probably the same things in One & Only but he may not be able to disclose them due to threats of litigation. I would buy One & Only over anything from Tetra any day of the week, month, year or lifetime. Tetra has a reputation for sub-standard products and Dr. Tim has a reputation for high standard products. Since both of their products are relatively new, I would bet my money that Dr. Tim's is far superior to Tetra's but you can wait if you want. From everything I've read so far about One & Only, it's more like the original Bio-Spira with the exception that it says it can be kept at room temp for up to six months, which I'm still reserving a right to wonder about but I'll be glad when enough hobbyists have used One & Only to see the final results about it's shelf life at room temp versus refrigeration. I see that DrsFosterSmith.com ships One & Only in overnight cooler packs since temps over 95F will severely harm the bacteria so I'm wondering if Tetra's distribution will take the same pains to keep their products at room temp. I've been in shipping warehouses before down here in the south and I can tell you they get into the 90's so if Tetra isn't putting demands on their distributors, their new product will be dead on arrival... pardon the pun. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Lenny, I think you're probably confused about Bio-Spira and Tetra. Tetra is coming out with safestart- it's a different product. Or is it I'm who is confused - Marineland is going to sell the Tetra product, safestart, instead of Bio-Spira. I'm literally not following you - what would legal issues with Marineland over a different product have to do with whether Dr. Tim tells us whether his own new product contains nitrospira? If the legal problem in question is that Marineland won't be selling Dr. Tim's products at all, that has absolutely no effect on what he decides to tell people about his product. I sure wish Marineland was going to sell safestart this month instead of next. If that's the gist of what you're saying. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:58 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one strain to fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to eat the ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the third strain comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK and I do know that a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products DID NOT WORK. I'm sure his new product, "One & Only", has the same bacteria as Bio-Spira, although it does seem that they've developed a way for it to last a few months at room temp now. See the FAQ's on http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com for more info. U.S. Patents, generally are public record so if you really wanted to see what was in there, you could probably find the patent application information somewhere online. Unless it's something new and proprietary like the process that allows the nitrifying bacteria to stay alive at room temp without ammonia and oxygen.... I'll still have to see it to believe it though. Here is one of Dr. Tim's recent Patents issued 9/11/2007 but applied for in 2003 if you want to do some detailed reading and or search this site for more of his inventions. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7267816-description.html Here's my Google search which found 3,500 hits about "One & Only". http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=The+One+and+Only+Dr.+Ho vanec including a PodCast that came up at the top so you might want to listen to it. Once again, I'd tend to believe in Dr. Hovenac over the Tetra folks any day!!!! Dr. Hovenac probably limits communications about how the new product is made due to legal issues involving his split from Marineland and their decision to get in bed with Tetra. Without seeing any of the issues going on between them, I'd be more likely to believe that Dr. Hovenac's product works where I wouldn't have that same trust with Tetra products. Although many of Tetra's products are probably fine, they also push that stuff, Easy Balance, that tells people they don't have to do water changes but once every six months and the research I did on Easy Balance showed it to be a mix of chemicals, acids and bases and formaldehyde. I think I once jokingly summarized it as being something that kills all your fish but at least the formaldehyde keeps them preserved so they appear to be alive as the filter moves the water around. ;-) Another article I read about Easy Balance had a guppy tank where they guppy didn't breed... and anything that can stop guppy from breeding can't be good for our fish. Dr. Tim is definitely WAY AHEAD of Marineland and Tetra. His products are available from http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com which is one of the very well respected web sites out there. As far as Dr. Tim being a whack job??? Well, most very intelligent people are whack jobs. I know I am and most of my friends and family will verify it. :-D The cause is that we can't have "normal" conversations with the rest of the world so it drives us crazy. People are still amazed at how fast I can type with my nose... over 60wpm... since they won't let me out of this darn straight jacket! Not to mention holding down the shift key when needed but I won't explain how I do that. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. You know what, I had a darned hard time finding how to actually order that "one and only", when I decided I don't want it. The inventor doesn't sell it on his web site, but refers people to a single web site, which lists it but provides no way to order it. And I don't find much online either. Since I've lost interest in the product I stopped searching. Maybe one is supposed to put in hyphens to search for it for all I know. When I wrote to him, that Timothy Hovanec came across as a wack and a half. Now, rapid cycling products are based on the claim that nitrospira is teh bacteria that enables rapid cycling, so in order to do the job they must have nitrospira . Strangely his web site does not claim that the one and only contains nitrospira. He wrote in one or two sentences that he won't say if the product contains nitrospira, because it's patented. Mind, I didn't ask for the formula, nor for the process (which is something people are debating), nor did I even ask if his bacteria are viable, which is also the point of some controversy, and his word is not what would convince me the bacteria are viable; I just want to know if the product has the only possible ingredient that he himself has consistently claimed elsewhere will do what he claims his product does, which is nitrospira. And his e-mail to me sounded half there. If he were mentally all there, he would know that the only reason why people would buy his new product is if it contains nitrospira, so if he wants us to buy it, he wants to tell us it contains nitrospira if it does! Telling me it contains the latest mix of nitrogen processing bacteria or whatever is suspiciously vague; why is he not telling us the product contains nitrospira? Bio-spira was specifically popular because it said it contained nitrospira, and that is the basis of Safestart's popularity in Europe. It really appears that he isn't even mentally together enough to either sell or market the product that he's selling. It's also conceivable that the issue is that he himself isn't sufficiently confident that the nitrospira in his product is viable to commit to saying the bacteria are there. On another list people are speculating that Marineland (may not have the right store name and wonder if indeed the name has become confused with that of the store below) may have stopped carrying both the old and new formulations of Bio-Spira because of their relationship with Timothy Hovanec or his possible control over the patents for these products. Man may be a brillient researcher, but I get the idea he's a wack job. Maybe he isn't even very serious about selling this product. He knows that in another month Tetra, which has it together, will easily outcompete him. He's sure not putting much effort into selling it, on top of seemingly not wanting anyone to buy it. Here's a photo of the man. http://www.drtimhovanec.com/About_Us/About_Us.html By mid May I'll have my aquarium going even if I pre-cycle it for two weeks. Here is the web site he sends people to to buy the product. I may have clicked on one of the companies listed there, though I thought I got to it from his own web site. http://drtimsaquatics.com/index.html Ah, yes, it eventually sends me here, and if you search the site you eventually get to http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/products.asp?cls=3&scls=8&cat=309&scat=987&i d=0705310 Prices are on a pdf sheet, and no way to order nor information on how to order. More evidence that the man is a wack job. As for Tetra, maybe it's upgrading its quality. Actually not a bad company, just low end for good quality in aquarium care products. I've always been satisfied with their products before. Quite brilliant picking up a product like SafeStart. LOL. I've ordered their inexpensive lab kit; I'll let you all know how it stacks up! I've dealt with enough companies lately that don't for instance answer questions like the one I asked Dr. Tim with the answer; so far one thing I'll definitely say for Tetra is that it has not made my shit list. And they aren't failing to say whether Safestart contains nitrospira! A company can say it's as high end as anything in the world, but if it's not honest... Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27383	From: Heather	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Weight question for tanks

Hello to all We just purchased a 55 gallon tank, we have 3 others currently and keep getting bigger each time :O) We went to a landscaping/bulk rock supply vendor today to purchase the pea gravel and also purchased some larger rocks. We were wondering if there is a weight limit guideline for the tanks? We plan to add some of the larger rocks to our other tanks also. Thank you! Heather

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27384	From: Chris Corley	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel

Hello It doesn't COST that much to replace. If it were me I would REPLACE. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmy McHaney" <mchaneyjm@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Bio-Wheel Does anyone know if you can reuse a Bio-Wheel after it has been out of service and dried up? It was only in service for about a month. I realize that all of the bacteria that had grown on it would be dead. I was wondering if I soaked it in dechlorinated water and rinsed it very well if it would be safe to reuse it or should it be replaced. Thanks, Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27385	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel longevity etc..

If you want to replace a part that essentially Never needs to be replaced, go right ahead. As long as it stays round, and or spins it does not need to be replaced. I am using the same wheels from seven years ago. How is that for cheap? I wear out impellers every couple years. Those I stock up on when they are cheap. Sponge filters are the same. Some of the tricks for cleaning sponges are vinegar or your microwave. Get a sponge wet, place it on a plate or bowl and put it in the microwave. After the heat kills the good and or bad bacteria the sponge can be rinsed and reused. The biowheels I have use a couple pieces of metal in them so I do NOT place them in a microwave. But I can probably boil them if need be. Not sure how strong the plastic is on the ends so I would probably skip it and treat with apple cider vinegar. Many of us reuse filters that are meant to be thrown away. Like the biowheel cartridges. Slice the top end of the filter cartridge and dump out the carbon. Rinse them thoroughly and place them back in the filter. If the biowheel is functioning properly there should be no problem with a loss of bacteria as the filter is designed to be thrown away and startover. If you just have to have the small amount of carbon in those cartridges buy some and pour some in after rinsing the cartridge. I have taken old dried out cartridges and dropped them right back into a biowheel filter and reused them. Want to increase your filtration? Add a sponge filter on your intake stem. These, like sponge filters, last a long long time. These are cheap, rinse out in dirty tank water and replace. I never throw these away either. If I want to start another tank I can simply place these on the intake stem of a filter in a new tank and the tank is essentially ready to go. You can make air driven sponge filters for under a buck. That versus $10. for one of the big ones. I don't throw those away either. These are all ideas I have gleaned from other fishkeepers either online or in person in their fishrooms over the years. Other fishkeepers were the ones that taught me to never throw away a biowheel filter. So spend money or recycle. Your choice. -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 4:40:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ki4jpg@... writes: Hello It doesn't COST that much to replace. If it were me I would REPLACE. Chris **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27386	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Weight question for tanks

The weight limit for tanks is larger than the rocks than will fit in it. I have seen a picture of a man standing in a 10G tank without breaking it. I usually fill my tanks about half full of rocks, but some fill to the waterline. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Weight question for tanks Hello to all We just purchased a 55 gallon tank, we have 3 others currently and keep getting bigger each time :O) We went to a landscaping/bulk rock supply vendor today to purchase the pea gravel and also purchased some larger rocks. We were wondering if there is a weight limit guideline for the tanks? We plan to add some of the larger rocks to our other tanks also. Thank you! Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27387	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Wheel

I wouldn't worry about dead bacteria causing a problem. Our tanks are full of dead bacteria since most microbes have a very short lifespan and are constantly multiplying, dying and multiplying some more. There are probably 1,000's of different microbes calling our tanks home that go through their life-cycle and we don't think twice about it. That was me that mentioned about the power outage problem but that would be dumping the stagnant, polluted water from the filter reservoir into a tank all at once when the power came back on which is a lot different than a dried out filter. If it was me, I'd probably soak it in some HOT, salty tap water for a few hours, then rinse it and use it. Between the heat and the salt, 99% of any bacteria would be rendered lifeless. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bio-Wheel My only concern was that the dead bacteria on the Bio-Wheel might not be removed by soaking and rinsing and might cause some contamination of the aquarium water when put back in service. But I don't believe this would be a problem if it was put back on an aquarium and allowed to go through fish-less cycling. Someone mentioned earlier that if the electricity was off for over two hours and came back on there might be a problem with the dead beneficial bacteria in a canister filter restarting and being flushed into the aquarium water. I assume the bacteria must remain damp as well as oxygenated to live. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: "Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> " <Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:52:00 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bio-Wheel Absolutely. They are reusable, never throw one away. Sure soak it in the water or put it back in dry. It will eventually absorb water and get bacteria on it. Do have a have a tank already set up with fish and running with a functioning filter? -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 3:46:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mchaneyjm@yahoo. com writes: Does anyone know if you can reuse a Bio-Wheel after it has been out of service and dried up? It was only in service for about a month. I realize that all of the bacteria that had grown on it would be dead. I was wondering if I soaked it in dechlorinated water and rinsed it very well if it would be safe to reuse it or should it be replaced. Thanks, Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27388	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Weight question for tanks

Rocks do not weigh much more than the water itself that they displace but something I've seen to help protect the glass bottom of the tank is putting some lighting egg-crate material on the bottom and then add the rocks. In the event of a collapse, the egg-crate material will help absorb the impact of the rocks. Here's a link to what egg-crate lighting material is if you are not familiar with it. http://www.professionalplastics.com/EGGCRATELOUVERS-LIGHTING Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Weight question for tanks Hello to all We just purchased a 55 gallon tank, we have 3 others currently and keep getting bigger each time :O) We went to a landscaping/bulk rock supply vendor today to purchase the pea gravel and also purchased some larger rocks. We were wondering if there is a weight limit guideline for the tanks? We plan to add some of the larger rocks to our other tanks also. Thank you! Heather No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27389	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Purigen

I finally splurged and got some Purigen to use in my heavily stocked cichlid tank. I know that Purigen can be ruined by certain slime coat products so I also got some Prime. But until now, I have used different water conditioners, most of which contain slime coat products. Should I wait until I've done a few PWC's with Prime before using the Purigen, or do the potentially damaging amine compounds dissipate after some amount of time? -- Carmen

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27390	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium questions

Thanks Lenny! I didn't know that Bacopa would grow emersed and flower. Too bad I just sold most of mine. Kate --- On Thu, 4/24/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 24, 2008, 8:34 PM Hi Kate, Check out this page for more ideas or confirmation of your own Paludarium ideas... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm The cork should be find submerged. Some folks even use it fully submerged as a background in aquariums. Here's some very easy and easy to grow plants with profiles on each one... http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions I have a vivarium that I decided to turn into a paludarium and just had a couple questions. First here is a description of the setup. The tank is a 10g aquarium which has been tipped on it's side so that the top of the aquarium is now the front. A piece of glass six inches tall, is siliconed to the bottom half of the front and a similar one at the top with a piece in the middle that flips out for access. The top piece has a circle cut out and covered with screen for ventilation. It's a bit like a homemade version of the exo-terra setups. The back and the left side are covered in cork bark and have branches, bromeliads, creeping fig, and some type of philodendron attached. The cork bark would reach down into the water about two inches. Do you think it can be partly submerged or do I need to cut it back? Do any of you have a favorite submersible nano filters? I plan to use Java Fern, Java Moss and possibly Anubias since the light will be far from the water. Any other thoughts on easy, low light plants? Thanks for reading, Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 7:16 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27391	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen

You might direct that one directly to the Sea-Chem folks. I'm not sure any of us mere hobbyists would have the testing equipment to know the dissipation rate of damaging amine compounds. ;-) When I first started using Purigen a couple of years ago, I had never used any slime-this, stress-that type products so I never had to worry about that aspect of the product but I remember reading about it when I was first reading all that I could find on Purigen. Me and my fish are happy with using it so far and I have to "clean" it every few weeks due to my "dirty" goldfish so I have two 100ml packages that I alternate using as the last line of filtration in my canister filter. I really like the fact that you can tell when it's "dirty", unlike when using a lesser chemical filter media like activated carbon. With carbon, you just have to throw it away every couple of weeks not knowing if it still has life or not. With Purigen, it can be recharged over and over and keeps on working... although Sea-Chem seems to imply that it can only be recharged a certain number of times but it certainly keeps working for me after many, many recharges. When the Purigen gets "dirty" (brown) I simply use the 50/50 bleach solution and soak it for 24 hours. Then rinse it well and soak it again for 24 hours in a cup of water with 20ml of dechlor product added (I use API's but any basic dechlor product will work). I DO NOT go the extra step of soaking the Purigen in the buffer solution that Sea-Chem suggests for FW tanks since my own testing shows it doesn't do anything when your source water is on the hard side. If your source water is on the soft side or low-pH side, then the buffer soak step may be needed. Goldfish and most cichlids prefer harder water and higher pH so if your cichlids are the hard water/high pH type, then you could skip that step also and save some time and money. Sea-Chem doesn't suggest the buffer soak when Purigen is used in SW tanks so that also leads me to believe that step is only needed in softer, low-pH water tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:13 PM To: Aquatic Life Subject: [AquaticLife] Purigen I finally splurged and got some Purigen to use in my heavily stocked cichlid tank. I know that Purigen can be ruined by certain slime coat products so I also got some Prime. But until now, I have used different water conditioners, most of which contain slime coat products. Should I wait until I've done a few PWC's with Prime before using the Purigen, or do the potentially damaging amine compounds dissipate after some amount of time? -- Carmen No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27392	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium questions

I would say your welcome, but I haven't a clue what Bacopa is. LOL I'll do a Google now to see what you are talking about. I did figure out it was a plant from your inference. ;-) Wouldn't you know it but a Wikipedia article came up first when searching the term "bacopa"... but at least I know what Bacopa is now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacopa I don't have to read my "Word For The Day" email now! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions Thanks Lenny! I didn't know that Bacopa would grow emersed and flower. Too bad I just sold most of mine. Kate --- On Thu, 4/24/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, April 24, 2008, 8:34 PM Hi Kate, Check out this page for more ideas or confirmation of your own Paludarium ideas... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm> The cork should be find submerged. Some folks even use it fully submerged as a background in aquariums. Here's some very easy and easy to grow plants with profiles on each one... http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions I have a vivarium that I decided to turn into a paludarium and just had a couple questions. First here is a description of the setup. The tank is a 10g aquarium which has been tipped on it's side so that the top of the aquarium is now the front. A piece of glass six inches tall, is siliconed to the bottom half of the front and a similar one at the top with a piece in the middle that flips out for access. The top piece has a circle cut out and covered with screen for ventilation. It's a bit like a homemade version of the exo-terra setups. The back and the left side are covered in cork bark and have branches, bromeliads, creeping fig, and some type of philodendron attached. The cork bark would reach down into the water about two inches. Do you think it can be partly submerged or do I need to cut it back? Do any of you have a favorite submersible nano filters? I plan to use Java Fern, Java Moss and possibly Anubias since the light will be far from the water. Any other thoughts on easy, low light plants? Thanks for reading, Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27393	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: What's good filter?

I am setting up my tank, got a Whisper power filter, at first it worked, then it stopped, and nothing can get it to run. Nothing is clogging it. No hair is wound around it. The fan thing is attached to the magnet thing, and they move up and down and turn together. I shook the tubing thingy up and down. ALOT. A number of times. I made sure the filter tank is full. With the motor turned on if you hold hte magnet up to the outside there is a charge - though it takes a while and not all that strong. I'm taking it back to Walmart tomorrow and exchanging it. But when I read I found that Whisper power filters are very prone to this kind of antics, I decided I don't want another Whisper filter. I do want something along the power filter idea, maybe with a bio-wheel if they aren't too expensive. What are good brands to get? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27394	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains

So I gather you think nitrospira is worthless? Then no point in even worrying about it! Just get an agent that contains the other two. From what I've read it's the nitrospira that makes the whole thing work. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira Strains NO DORA... I'm not sure where your "theory" comes from but there is one well-known bacteria that consumes ammonia and converts it to nitrite and another that we now know about that consumes the nitrite and converts it to nitrate. You need both of these to complete the nitrogen cycle. I really do not know where you got so stuck on nitrospira as the main or only bacteria (you referred to it as "biospira" in your post but you mentioned nitrospira earlier in the same paragraph so I'm presuming you meant nitrospira). For years and/or decades, it was thought that the two nitrifying bacteria in FW aquaria were nitrosomonas for ammonia and nitrobacter for nitrite (you can still find these references in older articles about the nitrogen cycle in aquaria) but Dr. Tim's research (which I might add has been heavily peer reviewed and proven with actual working products) proved it was not nitrobacter but rather nitrosospira and nitrospira which is why the original Bio-Spira contained nitrosomonas and these other two. It worked where the other products that only contained one strain or the wrong strains did not work as advertised. I'm ending this debate with you at this point unless you come up with something new on your part as I've stated and restated the "facts" as I know them and I've given links to the actual patents and to peer reviewed science and you simply do not want to let all this knowledge in because of some perceived personality clash between you and Dr. Tim. There's that old saying about you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink and I think that's where we stand on this issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 1:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira Strains One theory is that the other two actually die off and the nitrospira take over. Not I've studied it in any detail. But apparently the biospira is teh ingredient that makes the product fast cycling. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lana Gibbons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 8:07 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira Strains I wonder if the third strain is used for nitrite eating in environments where the nitrosospira is not comfortable. All microbes have a max amount of chemicals they can tolerate, what they eat and what they poo being two of the major ones. :) -Lana On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one > strain to fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to > eat the ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the > third strain comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK > and I do know that a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products > DID NOT WORK. > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27395	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Lenny, I could care less what the critter thinks of me. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. I'm sure he probably thinks the same of you after reading all of your posts about him. LOL I can't know for certain that he's reading these posts but most companies now have someone in charge of monitoring what is said about them on the internet via RSS feeds, Google searches, etc. We recently had a company representative from Glo-Fish comment in this forum since we were discussing/debating them so I know for certain it can/does happen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Because the other products have the other two bacteria. Nitrospira is the one only some of them have. Dr. Tim could be brilliant AND a nut. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 10:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Dora, You keep missing the point. Just having nitrospira is not sufficient so I'm not sure why you are so hung up on nitrospira. That is what was wrong for so many years with bacteria-in-a-bottle products.... they had the wrong bacteria, not all of the bacteria needed or it was dead bacteria. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM ------------------------------------ Please DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, thanks. ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27396	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Good. Let him. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Lenny, Heiko Bleher Popped up on a small forum recently and threatened legal action for comments made about him and his most recent publication. The aquarium community can be a small world. -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 12:24:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: We recently had a company representative from Glo-Fish comment in this forum since we were discussing/debating them so I know for certain it can/does happen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27397	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen

Thanks for all the info! I already jotted off a quick note to the seachem folks but just thought I'd ask... One other thing I was wondering, do you soak the purigen *in* the media bag in the bleach solution, or remove it from the bag? Seems like bleach would degrade the polyester that all the bags I have are made out of? Carmen On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 10:49 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > You might direct that one directly to the Sea-Chem folks. I'm not sure any > of us mere hobbyists would have the testing equipment to know the > dissipation rate of damaging amine compounds. ;-)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27398	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Best just to drop his name altogether as I would rather not have him drop in on another list I am a member of. -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 8:57:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Good. Let him. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) ----- Original Message ----- From: _Deenerz@..._ (mailto:Deenerz@...) To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Lenny, Heiko Bleher Popped up on a small forum recently and threatened legal action for comments made about him and his most recent publication. The aquarium community can be a small world. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27399	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Not sure what you think he's going to do to you on either list, Mike. I'm not going to worry about it. If only mentioning his name could get him to join all the lists on the web. Somehow I don't think he's as worried about it as I am, do you? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Best just to drop his name altogether as I would rather not have him drop in on another list I am a member of. -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 8:57:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Good. Let him. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) ----- Original Message ----- From: _Deenerz@..._ (mailto:Deenerz@...) To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Lenny, Heiko Bleher Popped up on a small forum recently and threatened legal action for comments made about him and his most recent publication. The aquarium community can be a small world. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27400	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Dora as I mentioned in a previous posting the Author of the book threatened legal action to the members of the list as well as the group owner who was an old friend of his. The idea I am trying to get across is you can discuss a product or book without making negative comments about the creator or author. As I have seen legal action threatened recently I thought I would share it here. Am I personally worried about Dr. Tim? No. The author of the book? Yes. Do I have a problem with what Dr. Tim sells? No. If you want to know my opinion of a couple book authors I would be glad to talk to you about it in person some time. Ever been to an ACA convention? Great place to meet people and share stories. My two cents. -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 9:40:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Not sure what you think he's going to do to you on either list, Mike. I'm not going to worry about it. If only mentioning his name could get him to join all the lists on the web. Somehow I don't think he's as worried about it as I am, do you? Yours, Dora Smith **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27401	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?

Dora, You are forgetting the first name on that Whisper filter... Tetra. ;-) I told you they are known for making low end products. I'll admit I have a couple of them that I use as secondary filters on some of my smaller tanks or for occasional use on a H-tank or Q-tank but I don't think I'd ever rely on one of them as my primary filter system. If you want something that's going to work and not have any problems, get an Aqua Clear Power Filter (HOB type) made by Hagen... which makes quality products. They have much larger reservoirs so they can hold adequate filter media like a sponge block, floss pads, chemical filter media when needed, etc. They are work horses and are low priced also!!! http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/basic/4-6.cfm No need to use the AmRid stuff though, if it comes with it. Just save that for an emergency when you need an ammonia removing filter media, otherwise it just starves off your much needed nitrifying bacteria colonies. PetsMart's use to sell them and they still might but I haven't been filter shopping in a while but here's a link that showed up on a Yahoo Shopping search so maybe they still do. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754143&utm_medium=yahoo shop&mr:referralID=84f16297-141b-11dd-8103-000423bb4e79&utm_source=cse Since Yahoogroups will probably break that link, just search 'aqua clear filter' in Yahoo Shopping and you'll find it.. or go to PetsMart.com and find it and print the page so when you go to the store, they'll match the internet pricing. Aquariumguys.com have them even cheaper... http://www.aquariumguys.com/hagenaquaclear.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? I am setting up my tank, got a Whisper power filter, at first it worked, then it stopped, and nothing can get it to run. Nothing is clogging it. No hair is wound around it. The fan thing is attached to the magnet thing, and they move up and down and turn together. I shook the tubing thingy up and down. ALOT. A number of times. I made sure the filter tank is full. With the motor turned on if you hold hte magnet up to the outside there is a charge - though it takes a while and not all that strong. I'm taking it back to Walmart tomorrow and exchanging it. But when I read I found that Whisper power filters are very prone to this kind of antics, I decided I don't want another Whisper filter. I do want something along the power filter idea, maybe with a bio-wheel if they aren't too expensive. What are good brands to get? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27402	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains

God you remind me of my ex-wife. LOL I never said it's worthless.. I said it's only one part of what is needed. Just nitrospira will not complete the nitrogen cycle. You need two or more of the correct types of nitrifying bacteria to complete the cycle. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira Strains So I gather you think nitrospira is worthless? Then no point in even worrying about it! Just get an agent that contains the other two. From what I've read it's the nitrospira that makes the whole thing work. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira Strains NO DORA... I'm not sure where your "theory" comes from but there is one well-known bacteria that consumes ammonia and converts it to nitrite and another that we now know about that consumes the nitrite and converts it to nitrate. You need both of these to complete the nitrogen cycle. I really do not know where you got so stuck on nitrospira as the main or only bacteria (you referred to it as "biospira" in your post but you mentioned nitrospira earlier in the same paragraph so I'm presuming you meant nitrospira). For years and/or decades, it was thought that the two nitrifying bacteria in FW aquaria were nitrosomonas for ammonia and nitrobacter for nitrite (you can still find these references in older articles about the nitrogen cycle in aquaria) but Dr. Tim's research (which I might add has been heavily peer reviewed and proven with actual working products) proved it was not nitrobacter but rather nitrosospira and nitrospira which is why the original Bio-Spira contained nitrosomonas and these other two. It worked where the other products that only contained one strain or the wrong strains did not work as advertised. I'm ending this debate with you at this point unless you come up with something new on your part as I've stated and restated the "facts" as I know them and I've given links to the actual patents and to peer reviewed science and you simply do not want to let all this knowledge in because of some perceived personality clash between you and Dr. Tim. There's that old saying about you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink and I think that's where we stand on this issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 1:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira Strains One theory is that the other two actually die off and the nitrospira take over. Not I've studied it in any detail. But apparently the biospira is teh ingredient that makes the product fast cycling. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lana Gibbons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 8:07 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira Strains I wonder if the third strain is used for nitrite eating in environments where the nitrosospira is not comfortable. All microbes have a max amount of chemicals they can tolerate, what they eat and what they poo being two of the major ones. :) -Lana On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > The original Bio-Spira actually had three nitrifying bacteria strains... > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. You need more than one > strain to fully cycle a tank. You definitely need two strains.. one to > eat the ammonia and one to eat the nitrite so I'm not sure where the > third strain comes in but I know that the original Bio-Spira DID WORK > and I do know that a couple of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products > DID NOT WORK. > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27403	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen

The 100ml pack of Purigen comes in it's own sealed media bag so I soak it as is. The media bag is much "thicker" than the kind we buy for carbon, etc. The 500ml pack of Purigen comes in bulk so you would use your own media bags but I still think it would need to be soaked in the bag since the granules are very small... much smaller than a BB. So make sure any media bag you use will handle the 50/50 bleach soakings. The bag that the 100ml packages come in are some kind of synthetic/nylon/plastic and are much sturdier than some of the nylon media bags I've used over the years. I've never tested a bleach solution on a regular media bag or ladies stocking.. or I guess some men in San Francisco and down here in the French Quarter might wear them also.. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Purigen Thanks for all the info! I already jotted off a quick note to the seachem folks but just thought I'd ask... One other thing I was wondering, do you soak the purigen *in* the media bag in the bleach solution, or remove it from the bag? Seems like bleach would degrade the polyester that all the bags I have are made out of? Carmen On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 10:49 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > You might direct that one directly to the Sea-Chem folks. I'm not sure > any of us mere hobbyists would have the testing equipment to know the > dissipation rate of damaging amine compounds. ;-) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27404	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Unlike me and my not-so-well-known blog, writing and publishing a book that becomes well known, speaking at conventions, etc., does make one a public figure so I'm not sure what he could successfully sue anyone for anything unless they were just doing name calling or saying his momma wears army boots or something. :-D Of course, if you say my momma wears army boots, you'll have to worry more about her haunting you than me suing you. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Dora as I mentioned in a previous posting the Author of the book threatened legal action to the members of the list as well as the group owner who was an old friend of his. The idea I am trying to get across is you can discuss a product or book without making negative comments about the creator or author. As I have seen legal action threatened recently I thought I would share it here. Am I personally worried about Dr. Tim? No. The author of the book? Yes. Do I have a problem with what Dr. Tim sells? No. If you want to know my opinion of a couple book authors I would be glad to talk to you about it in person some time. Ever been to an ACA convention? Great place to meet people and share stories. My two cents. -Mike In a message dated 4/26/2008 9:40:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> writes: Not sure what you think he's going to do to you on either list, Mike. I'm not going to worry about it. If only mentioning his name could get him to join all the lists on the web. Somehow I don't think he's as worried about it as I am, do you? Yours, Dora Smith No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium questions

Many of the plants grown in aquaria have a submersed form and an emersed form. Most people never see the emersed form for any or a combination of reasons, the biggest being a lack of water to cover the plant. Most flowering occurs above the surface of the water. Also, the emersed form often has a different look than the submersed form. I do not know if she has published any, but Karen Randall has a number of photos showing common aquatic plants that we use in their emersed form from her travels in South America. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions I would say your welcome, but I haven't a clue what Bacopa is. LOL I'll do a Google now to see what you are talking about. I did figure out it was a plant from your inference. ;-) Wouldn't you know it but a Wikipedia article came up first when searching the term "bacopa"... but at least I know what Bacopa is now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacopa I don't have to read my "Word For The Day" email now! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions Thanks Lenny! I didn't know that Bacopa would grow emersed and flower. Too bad I just sold most of mine. Kate --- On Thu, 4/24/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, April 24, 2008, 8:34 PM Hi Kate, Check out this page for more ideas or confirmation of your own Paludarium ideas... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm> The cork should be find submerged. Some folks even use it fully submerged as a background in aquariums. Here's some very easy and easy to grow plants with profiles on each one... http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions I have a vivarium that I decided to turn into a paludarium and just had a couple questions. First here is a description of the setup. The tank is a 10g aquarium which has been tipped on it's side so that the top of the aquarium is now the front. A piece of glass six inches tall, is siliconed to the bottom half of the front and a similar one at the top with a piece in the middle that flips out for access. The top piece has a circle cut out and covered with screen for ventilation. It's a bit like a homemade version of the exo-terra setups. The back and the left side are covered in cork bark and have branches, bromeliads, creeping fig, and some type of philodendron attached. The cork bark would reach down into the water about two inches. Do you think it can be partly submerged or do I need to cut it back? Do any of you have a favorite submersible nano filters? I plan to use Java Fern, Java Moss and possibly Anubias since the light will be far from the water. Any other thoughts on easy, low light plants? Thanks for reading, Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27406	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Turning the heat DOWN

Hi! Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that could be done to save my babies. The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run up so quickly. and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have nasal sinus problems. Any suggestions are welcomed! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27407	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN

Hi Noura, There are ways to keep your tank cooler They are know as Chillers. They are regulated by a thermostat. I have also tried in my 55 gallon tanks to use Peltier effect devices mounted on two heat sinks- one smaller one in the water and the other in the air with a fan on it. This lowered the temp about a few degrees but was the source of heat as well in the basement. The Chiller is the best way to go as well as using a sheet insulation on all sides of the tank except the front. Also take the lighting fixture up off the surface of the hood a few inches in summer will help from adding any heat in. See below- http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4900 Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs N Taweel wrote: > Hi! > Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high > temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. > Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that > could be done to save my babies. > The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think > that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run > up so quickly. > and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have > nasal sinus problems. > Any suggestions are welcomed! > > Noura > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27408	From: Noura Taweel	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

Hi. Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy fry. Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order any kind of spare things with the kit? Thanks for your advise Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27409	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Nothing could more vividly or conclusively prove that the man is nuts. In fact, until you mentioned that I had begun to wonder if he is fairly rational but slimy. In fact, I thought people had been saying this to me on the two lists where it's been discussed and I was slow to realize what they were saying. That's why I wasn't saying anything more about it. If he's broken with the company he had partnered with to invent, produce and sell that product, there could be a dispute over who owns or has rights to the patent, and he could be trying to use the same formula or one that is similar enough to end him up in court, without it having been settled who has the right to use the formula, and he might be trying to evade the issue by refusing to say zit to anybody about what is in the product. If he is, I've an idea that dog won't hunt. ;) People aren't going through what we've been going through to get the former product to get his nattily packaged offline product that he won't even say what bacteria are in it. As for your second comment, the trustworthiness of the company selling a product has everything to do with whether I do business with it. And the switch from scientific genius to nut on the fringe of hte business seems to cry for an explanation. I mean, the man invited speculation about him when he refused to tell me if his product contains nitrospira! How can he go from brilliant researcher to not bright enough to say if his product contains nitrospira. With that I'm done with it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Dora as I mentioned in a previous posting the Author of the book threatened legal action to the members of the list as well as the group owner who was an old friend of his. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27410	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN

I dismissed the idea of simpy getting white cloud minnows because in Austin they wouldn't live for five minutes, if their fish tank temperature can be no warmer than 69 degrees. Some of these fish can only be kept in Alaska. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 6:32 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN Hi! Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that could be done to save my babies. The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run up so quickly. and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have nasal sinus problems. Any suggestions are welcomed! Noura ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27411	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?

Lenny: Can you please tell me exactly how to set up an aqua clear and what to use. Before 9:30 AM Central Time would be especially helpful (LOL). Knowledge would be good to have anyhow - might consider getting one in the future. But it sounds like it is very involved and not for a beginner. One has to know what media to get and how to make filters out of it since only the biological filter comes with it. Tetra had to fail at something, huh? I always thought they did well enough at medications and fish food. I like Tetra, because of their sound business practices, but it's a rare company that one could like everything about them. By the way, that Whisper filter, if I read their ever not so clear instructions and the vaguer diagrams right, the water goes through the foam filter AFTER the charcoal; I am wondering, did not the charcoal filter already remove the ammonia and nitrates? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:42 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? Dora, You are forgetting the first name on that Whisper filter... Tetra. ;-) I told you they are known for making low end products. I'll admit I have a couple of them that I use as secondary filters on some of my smaller tanks or for occasional use on a H-tank or Q-tank but I don't think I'd ever rely on one of them as my primary filter system. If you want something that's going to work and not have any problems, get an Aqua Clear Power Filter (HOB type) made by Hagen... which makes quality products. They have much larger reservoirs so they can hold adequate filter media like a sponge block, floss pads, chemical filter media when needed, etc. They are work horses and are low priced also!!! http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/basic/4-6.cfm No need to use the AmRid stuff though, if it comes with it. Just save that for an emergency when you need an ammonia removing filter media, otherwise it just starves off your much needed nitrifying bacteria colonies. PetsMart's use to sell them and they still might but I haven't been filter shopping in a while but here's a link that showed up on a Yahoo Shopping search so maybe they still do. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754143&utm_medium=yahoo shop&mr:referralID=84f16297-141b-11dd-8103-000423bb4e79&utm_source=cse Since Yahoogroups will probably break that link, just search 'aqua clear filter' in Yahoo Shopping and you'll find it.. or go to PetsMart.com and find it and print the page so when you go to the store, they'll match the internet pricing. Aquariumguys.com have them even cheaper... http://www.aquariumguys.com/hagenaquaclear.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? I am setting up my tank, got a Whisper power filter, at first it worked, then it stopped, and nothing can get it to run. Nothing is clogging it. No hair is wound around it. The fan thing is attached to the magnet thing, and they move up and down and turn together. I shook the tubing thingy up and down. ALOT. A number of times. I made sure the filter tank is full. With the motor turned on if you hold hte magnet up to the outside there is a charge - though it takes a while and not all that strong. I'm taking it back to Walmart tomorrow and exchanging it. But when I read I found that Whisper power filters are very prone to this kind of antics, I decided I don't want another Whisper filter. I do want something along the power filter idea, maybe with a bio-wheel if they aren't too expensive. What are good brands to get? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27412	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains

Dora, You should probably take more time to read before responding to messages. The fact is Nitrospira IS worthless if it isn't accompanied by either Nitrosospira or Nitrosonomas because it won't survive without them! -Lana 2008/4/26 Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...>: > So I gather you think nitrospira is worthless? > > Then no point in even worrying about it! Just get an agent that contains > the other two. > > From what I've read it's the nitrospira that makes the whole thing work. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27413	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN

It is interesting that your guppies were dying at 30C. The temperature range they can live in goes up into the 90's F. You do not mention the size of your tank(s), so it is difficult to determine the best course of action for you. A chiller has been mentioned already, but they can be expensive purchase and to run. A fan blowing across the surface of the water can induce some evaporative cooling, but then you would need to add water every day to keep the water level up. Floating ice in the tank can help, but then you would need to ensure a steady supply of ice. One thing that can work very well is to build your own "poor man's" chiller. To do so, you would need a small dorm refrigerator, a good length of aquarium tubing, a small water pump, and some sealant. Google "DIY chiller" (with the quotes) for articles on how to make your own chiller. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN Hi! Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that could be done to save my babies. The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run up so quickly. and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have nasal sinus problems. Any suggestions are welcomed! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27414	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN

What, exactly, do white clouds have to do with Noura's question? FWIW, white clouds do perfectly well up into the upper 70's F, though their best color is shown at 74 F and below. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN I dismissed the idea of simpy getting white cloud minnows because in Austin they wouldn't live for five minutes, if their fish tank temperature can be no warmer than 69 degrees. Some of these fish can only be kept in Alaska. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 6:32 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN Hi! Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that could be done to save my babies. The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run up so quickly. and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have nasal sinus problems. Any suggestions are welcomed! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27415	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium questions

Lol! Chuck's page talk about it. It's a very pretty stem plant. some species smell like mint. Kate --- On Sat, 4/26/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, April 26, 2008, 8:56 PM > I would say your welcome, but I haven't a clue what > Bacopa is. LOL > > I'll do a Google now to see what you are talking about. > I did figure out it > was a plant from your inference. ;-) > > Wouldn't you know it but a Wikipedia article came up > first when searching > the term "bacopa"... but at least I know what > Bacopa is now. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacopa > > I don't have to read my "Word For The Day" > email now! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kate Conrow > Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions > > Thanks Lenny! I didn't know that Bacopa would grow > emersed and flower. Too > bad I just sold most of mine. > Kate > > --- On Thu, 4/24/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, April 24, 2008, 8:34 PM > > Hi Kate, > > Check out this page for more ideas or confirmation of your > own Paludarium > ideas... > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm > <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm> > > The cork should be find submerged. Some folks even use it > fully submerged as > a background in aquariums. > > Here's some very easy and easy to grow plants with > profiles on each one... > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Kate > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions > > I have a vivarium that I decided to turn into a paludarium > and just had a > couple questions. First here is a description of the setup. > > The tank is a 10g aquarium which has been tipped on > it's side so that the > top of the aquarium is now the front. A piece of glass six > inches tall, is > siliconed to the bottom half of the front and a similar one > at the top with > a piece in the middle that flips out for access. The top > piece has a circle > cut out and covered with screen for ventilation. > It's a bit like a homemade version of the exo-terra > setups. The back and the > left side are covered in cork bark and have branches, > bromeliads, creeping > fig, and some type of philodendron attached. > > The cork bark would reach down into the water about two > inches. Do you think > it can be partly submerged or do I need to cut it back? Do > any of you have a > favorite submersible nano filters? I plan to use Java Fern, > Java Moss and > possibly Anubias since the light will be far from the > water. Any other > thoughts on easy, low light plants? > > Thanks for reading, > Kate > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release > Date: 4/25/2008 > 2:31 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> > ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. > , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27416	From: Bill Lane	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Suicidal Hatchets!

Hi All, Hatchet Fish have been 1 of my favorites since I was young. I read a bit back then and knew of the need for a hood because they jump out of the tank. I never saw it or had it happen to me. When the fish interest was renewed last year mostly with my wife, I got a few more. They have turned out to be some of the most long lived fish we had. We have not been as successful with the Betas, and by far not with the Angels. Our current hatchets are bigger then I ever seen. I had a 10 gallon back then. We have a 30 gallon now. A few months back, my wife found a hatchet dead on the carpet. It must have jumped out when she was changing the water, and did not notice it. WELL, it happened again this morning when she was feeding them. She saw the hatchet jump out! She had a total fit. I got it back in the water in about 30 seconds. All seems to be OK.... What a wacky behavior! Thank You, Bill Lane Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1988 See my finished models at: http://www.lanestrains.com Winner of the 2007 Josh Seltzer NASG Website Award Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale! Custom Train Parts Design http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded (Trading is MUCH preferred) http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls ***Join the PRR T&HS*** The other members are not ALL like me! http://www.prrths.com http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society It's FREE (for now) http://www.prslhs.com Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27417	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

Frankly, I do not know what is available in France, but have your friend look for test kits that have the reagents marked with an expiration date. The reagents should be powdered to last longer, and if they are pre-measured, so much the better. Your basic test kits should be for pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Anything else may be a bonus, if useful to you. Arm your friend with this information, and they can shop around a bit to find kits that meet those basic qualifications to send to you. Personally, I like the Aqua-Tru test kits distributed in the US by Kordon. I do not know if they distribute to Europe or not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Hi. Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy fry. Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order any kind of spare things with the kit? Thanks for your advise Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27418	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira Strains

Thanks for just clarifying that, Lana. I really haven't seen any product claim to contain just nitrospira. Neither have I seen any product fail to have the other two bacteria. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Lana Gibbons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira Strains Dora, You should probably take more time to read before responding to messages. The fact is Nitrospira IS worthless if it isn't accompanied by either Nitrosospira or Nitrosonomas because it won't survive without them! -Lana 2008/4/26 Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...>: > So I gather you think nitrospira is worthless? > > Then no point in even worrying about it! Just get an agent that contains > the other two. > > From what I've read it's the nitrospira that makes the whole thing work. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27419	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium questions

I've had HC and Crpyts that were grown emersed. The paludarium will be fun to work with! Kate --- On Sun, 4/27/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 27, 2008, 2:11 AM Many of the plants grown in aquaria have a submersed form and an emersed form. Most people never see the emersed form for any or a combination of reasons, the biggest being a lack of water to cover the plant. Most flowering occurs above the surface of the water. Also, the emersed form often has a different look than the submersed form. I do not know if she has published any, but Karen Randall has a number of photos showing common aquatic plants that we use in their emersed form from her travels in South America. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions I would say your welcome, but I haven't a clue what Bacopa is. LOL I'll do a Google now to see what you are talking about. I did figure out it was a plant from your inference. ;-) Wouldn't you know it but a Wikipedia article came up first when searching the term "bacopa"... but at least I know what Bacopa is now. http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Bacopa I don't have to read my "Word For The Day" email now! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:21 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions Thanks Lenny! I didn't know that Bacopa would grow emersed and flower. Too bad I just sold most of mine. Kate --- On Thu, 4/24/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Thursday, April 24, 2008, 8:34 PM Hi Kate, Check out this page for more ideas or confirmation of your own Paludarium ideas... http://www.csd. net/~cgadd/ aqua/46g. htm <http://www.csd. net/~cgadd/ aqua/46g. htm> The cork should be find submerged. Some folks even use it fully submerged as a background in aquariums. Here's some very easy and easy to grow plants with profiles on each one... http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2&filter_ by=2 <http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2&filter_ by=2> http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2&filter_ by=3 <http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2&filter_ by=3> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:44 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Paludarium questions I have a vivarium that I decided to turn into a paludarium and just had a couple questions. First here is a description of the setup. The tank is a 10g aquarium which has been tipped on it's side so that the top of the aquarium is now the front. A piece of glass six inches tall, is siliconed to the bottom half of the front and a similar one at the top with a piece in the middle that flips out for access. The top piece has a circle cut out and covered with screen for ventilation. It's a bit like a homemade version of the exo-terra setups. The back and the left side are covered in cork bark and have branches, bromeliads, creeping fig, and some type of philodendron attached. The cork bark would reach down into the water about two inches. Do you think it can be partly submerged or do I need to cut it back? Do any of you have a favorite submersible nano filters? I plan to use Java Fern, Java Moss and possibly Anubias since the light will be far from the water. Any other thoughts on easy, low light plants? Thanks for reading, Kate ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27420	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

If you have a problem with availability of merchandise in the Middle East, I 'd order from whatever country you usually order actual merchandise from. We have a similar problem in Austin, Texas, just not to that extreme. I'd suggest the UK. I don't know if that's really the easiest place to order from. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Hi. Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy fry. Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order any kind of spare things with the kit? Thanks for your advise Noura -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27421	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN

She said she can't get her tank cool enough to keep her fish alive. Information I have says they can't take Texas normal room temperature. If they do I won't be finding out, I guess. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:18 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN What, exactly, do white clouds have to do with Noura's question? FWIW, white clouds do perfectly well up into the upper 70's F, though their best color is shown at 74 F and below. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN I dismissed the idea of simpy getting white cloud minnows because in Austin they wouldn't live for five minutes, if their fish tank temperature can be no warmer than 69 degrees. Some of these fish can only be kept in Alaska. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 6:32 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN Hi! Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that could be done to save my babies. The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run up so quickly. and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have nasal sinus problems. Any suggestions are welcomed! Noura ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27422	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?

Charcoal does not remove ammonia and nitrates. The only thing I use charcoal to remove is medications. I would not use Tetra fish food, and in general avoid Tetra products. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? Lenny: Can you please tell me exactly how to set up an aqua clear and what to use. Before 9:30 AM Central Time would be especially helpful (LOL). Knowledge would be good to have anyhow - might consider getting one in the future. But it sounds like it is very involved and not for a beginner. One has to know what media to get and how to make filters out of it since only the biological filter comes with it. Tetra had to fail at something, huh? I always thought they did well enough at medications and fish food. I like Tetra, because of their sound business practices, but it's a rare company that one could like everything about them. By the way, that Whisper filter, if I read their ever not so clear instructions and the vaguer diagrams right, the water goes through the foam filter AFTER the charcoal; I am wondering, did not the charcoal filter already remove the ammonia and nitrates? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:42 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? Dora, You are forgetting the first name on that Whisper filter... Tetra. ;-) I told you they are known for making low end products. I'll admit I have a couple of them that I use as secondary filters on some of my smaller tanks or for occasional use on a H-tank or Q-tank but I don't think I'd ever rely on one of them as my primary filter system. If you want something that's going to work and not have any problems, get an Aqua Clear Power Filter (HOB type) made by Hagen... which makes quality products. They have much larger reservoirs so they can hold adequate filter media like a sponge block, floss pads, chemical filter media when needed, etc. They are work horses and are low priced also!!! http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/basic/4-6.cfm No need to use the AmRid stuff though, if it comes with it. Just save that for an emergency when you need an ammonia removing filter media, otherwise it just starves off your much needed nitrifying bacteria colonies. PetsMart's use to sell them and they still might but I haven't been filter shopping in a while but here's a link that showed up on a Yahoo Shopping search so maybe they still do. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754143&utm_medium=yahoo shop&mr:referralID=84f16297-141b-11dd-8103-000423bb4e79&utm_source=cse Since Yahoogroups will probably break that link, just search 'aqua clear filter' in Yahoo Shopping and you'll find it.. or go to PetsMart.com and find it and print the page so when you go to the store, they'll match the internet pricing. Aquariumguys.com have them even cheaper... http://www.aquariumguys.com/hagenaquaclear.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? I am setting up my tank, got a Whisper power filter, at first it worked, then it stopped, and nothing can get it to run. Nothing is clogging it. No hair is wound around it. The fan thing is attached to the magnet thing, and they move up and down and turn together. I shook the tubing thingy up and down. ALOT. A number of times. I made sure the filter tank is full. With the motor turned on if you hold hte magnet up to the outside there is a charge - though it takes a while and not all that strong. I'm taking it back to Walmart tomorrow and exchanging it. But when I read I found that Whisper power filters are very prone to this kind of antics, I decided I don't want another Whisper filter. I do want something along the power filter idea, maybe with a bio-wheel if they aren't too expensive. What are good brands to get? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27423	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

"If he's broken with the company he had partnered with to invent, produce and sell that product, there could be a dispute over who owns or has rights to the patent, and he could be trying to use the same formula or one that is similar enough to end him up in court, without it having been settled who has the right to use the formula, and he might be trying to evade the issue by refusing to say zit to anybody about what is in the product." First, he was with Marineland for nearly 20 years as an employee, not a partner. He had a hand in many creations that made their way to market. Doing a quick patent search, I found his name to be on 5 patents as the inventor, and each of those were assigned to Aquaria, Inc. This would not be unusual, since many employee contracts will have a section covering patentable inventions where either to corporation will either own the patent outright or have the rights to the patent. This is most likely the reason why he is being quiet on the formulation that he is selling. Before tossing about any terms about a person in a discussion, especially if he is not there to defend himself, one should have all the facts. Using the defense that other people are doing it is no defense at all. Don't you remember how well that argument worked with your parents when you were younger? Never flew, did it? Doesn't fly here either. What would need to be done is to have someone test both products, the one from Tetra, and the one from Tim Hovanec, under controlled conditions, to determine which is better at meeting the claims for the product. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Nothing could more vividly or conclusively prove that the man is nuts. In fact, until you mentioned that I had begun to wonder if he is fairly rational but slimy. In fact, I thought people had been saying this to me on the two lists where it's been discussed and I was slow to realize what they were saying. That's why I wasn't saying anything more about it. If he's broken with the company he had partnered with to invent, produce and sell that product, there could be a dispute over who owns or has rights to the patent, and he could be trying to use the same formula or one that is similar enough to end him up in court, without it having been settled who has the right to use the formula, and he might be trying to evade the issue by refusing to say zit to anybody about what is in the product. If he is, I've an idea that dog won't hunt. ;) People aren't going through what we've been going through to get the former product to get his nattily packaged offline product that he won't even say what bacteria are in it. As for your second comment, the trustworthiness of the company selling a product has everything to do with whether I do business with it. And the switch from scientific genius to nut on the fringe of hte business seems to cry for an explanation. I mean, the man invited speculation about him when he refused to tell me if his product contains nitrospira! How can he go from brilliant researcher to not bright enough to say if his product contains nitrospira. With that I'm done with it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Dora as I mentioned in a previous posting the Author of the book threatened legal action to the members of the list as well as the group owner who was an old friend of his. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27424	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN

Dora, The only mention of fish was this from Noura's original post "Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high temperature.". I fail to understand how you get to white clouds from guppies. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 10:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN She said she can't get her tank cool enough to keep her fish alive. Information I have says they can't take Texas normal room temperature. If they do I won't be finding out, I guess. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:18 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN What, exactly, do white clouds have to do with Noura's question? FWIW, white clouds do perfectly well up into the upper 70's F, though their best color is shown at 74 F and below. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN I dismissed the idea of simpy getting white cloud minnows because in Austin they wouldn't live for five minutes, if their fish tank temperature can be no warmer than 69 degrees. Some of these fish can only be kept in Alaska. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 6:32 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN Hi! Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that could be done to save my babies. The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run up so quickly. and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have nasal sinus problems. Any suggestions are welcomed! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27425	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?

GAC is good for removing organic carbon compounds and some heavy metals. Since ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are not organic carbons, it will have no effect on them. Many medications contain organic carbons and/or heavy metals, so GAC can be effectively used to remove them from the water column. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? Charcoal does not remove ammonia and nitrates. The only thing I use charcoal to remove is medications. I would not use Tetra fish food, and in general avoid Tetra products. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? Lenny: Can you please tell me exactly how to set up an aqua clear and what to use. Before 9:30 AM Central Time would be especially helpful (LOL). Knowledge would be good to have anyhow - might consider getting one in the future. But it sounds like it is very involved and not for a beginner. One has to know what media to get and how to make filters out of it since only the biological filter comes with it. Tetra had to fail at something, huh? I always thought they did well enough at medications and fish food. I like Tetra, because of their sound business practices, but it's a rare company that one could like everything about them. By the way, that Whisper filter, if I read their ever not so clear instructions and the vaguer diagrams right, the water goes through the foam filter AFTER the charcoal; I am wondering, did not the charcoal filter already remove the ammonia and nitrates? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:42 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? Dora, You are forgetting the first name on that Whisper filter... Tetra. ;-) I told you they are known for making low end products. I'll admit I have a couple of them that I use as secondary filters on some of my smaller tanks or for occasional use on a H-tank or Q-tank but I don't think I'd ever rely on one of them as my primary filter system. If you want something that's going to work and not have any problems, get an Aqua Clear Power Filter (HOB type) made by Hagen... which makes quality products. They have much larger reservoirs so they can hold adequate filter media like a sponge block, floss pads, chemical filter media when needed, etc. They are work horses and are low priced also!!! http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/basic/4-6.cfm No need to use the AmRid stuff though, if it comes with it. Just save that for an emergency when you need an ammonia removing filter media, otherwise it just starves off your much needed nitrifying bacteria colonies. PetsMart's use to sell them and they still might but I haven't been filter shopping in a while but here's a link that showed up on a Yahoo Shopping search so maybe they still do. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754143&utm_medium=y ahoo shop&mr:referralID=84f16297-141b-11dd-8103-000423bb4e79&utm_source=cse Since Yahoogroups will probably break that link, just search 'aqua clear filter' in Yahoo Shopping and you'll find it.. or go to PetsMart.com and find it and print the page so when you go to the store, they'll match the internet pricing. Aquariumguys.com have them even cheaper... http://www.aquariumguys.com/hagenaquaclear.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? I am setting up my tank, got a Whisper power filter, at first it worked, then it stopped, and nothing can get it to run. Nothing is clogging it. No hair is wound around it. The fan thing is attached to the magnet thing, and they move up and down and turn together. I shook the tubing thingy up and down. ALOT. A number of times. I made sure the filter tank is full. With the motor turned on if you hold hte magnet up to the outside there is a charge - though it takes a while and not all that strong. I'm taking it back to Walmart tomorrow and exchanging it. But when I read I found that Whisper power filters are very prone to this kind of antics, I decided I don't want another Whisper filter. I do want something along the power filter idea, maybe with a bio-wheel if they aren't too expensive. What are good brands to get? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27426	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Light in the Aquarium--an Article

Here is a short article, written so most can understand it (i.e. not much in the way of scientific terms and such), by one of Dora's favorite people, Timothy A. Hovanec, Ph.D. Fish Aquarium Lighting Systems http://www.fishchannel.com/newsletter/special-edition.aspx \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27427	From: harry perry	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Light in the Aquarium--an Article/Steve thank you

Soo much. I knew I didn't have enough light, now I know why. Harry Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: Here is a short article, written so most can understand it (i.e. not much in the way of scientific terms and such), by one of Dora's favorite people, Timothy A. Hovanec, Ph.D. Fish Aquarium Lighting Systems http://www.fishchannel.com/newsletter/special-edition.aspx \\Steve// Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27428	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN

Uncover the tank and take a fan and aim it at the surface of the water on high speed. Increase circulation and surface agitation by changing how the filter system water is returned to the tank and/or add air stones to the tank. These steps will increase the O2 levels in the water which is needed when the water temps get higher. They will also help increase the evaporation rate which will release some of the heat from the water. Of course, you will lose more water to evaporation so you will have to top it off more often and be diligent with your larger weekly 25% PWC's since you will have more of a buildup of salts, etc. since they do not evaporate when the water does. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 6:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN Hi! Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that could be done to save my babies. The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run up so quickly. and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have nasal sinus problems. Any suggestions are welcomed! Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27429	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN)

Hi Steve.. It's a 20 G community tank, with closed wooden top to hide the lighting. and I have another 2 G tank for guppy fry, but these don't really matter, I can simply stop "saving" them out of the big tank and let the others eat them as a rich fresh protein meal. I'm more interested in cooling the 20 G. The temperature in some summer days can reach 32 C (don't know how many F degrees is that). I can't find any aquarium chillers here in my country, and the "poor man's" chiller will put the living room in chaos. but I'm very interested in the ice cubes idea, I never thought this might work. I guess I'll spend the whole day watching the thermometer and filling ice trays in the frig! especially on those very hot days. It isn't quite practical , but I'll write it down in my notebook untill I hear about a better idea. Thanks for your advise. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN It is interesting that your guppies were dying at 30C. The temperature range they can live in goes up into the 90's F. You do not mention the size of your tank(s), so it is difficult to determine the best course of action for you. A chiller has been mentioned already, but they can be expensive purchase and to run. A fan blowing across the surface of the water can induce some evaporative cooling, but then you would need to add water every day to keep the water level up. Floating ice in the tank can help, but then you would need to ensure a steady supply of ice. One thing that can work very well is to build your own "poor man's" chiller. To do so, you would need a small dorm refrigerator, a good length of aquarium tubing, a small water pump, and some sealant. Google "DIY chiller" (with the quotes) for articles on how to make your own chiller. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN Hi! Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that could be done to save my babies. The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run up so quickly. and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have nasal sinus problems. Any suggestions are welcomed! Noura ------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27430	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN

Sounds like a good idea too. Maybe it's a silly question, but won't the plants be affected by the high O2 level? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:14 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN Uncover the tank and take a fan and aim it at the surface of the water on high speed. Increase circulation and surface agitation by changing how the filter system water is returned to the tank and/or add air stones to the tank. These steps will increase the O2 levels in the water which is needed when the water temps get higher. They will also help increase the evaporation rate which will release some of the heat from the water. Of course, you will lose more water to evaporation so you will have to top it off more often and be diligent with your larger weekly 25% PWC's since you will have more of a buildup of salts, etc. since they do not evaporate when the water does. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27431	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN

I was just about to ask this question and I have to say, YIKES, those chillers are pricy!! -Lana 2008/4/27 Sam Palermo <skywavebe@...>: > Hi Noura, > > There are ways to keep your tank cooler > They are know as Chillers. They are regulated by > a thermostat. I have also tried in my 55 gallon tanks to use > Peltier effect devices mounted on two heat sinks- one smaller > one in the water and the other in the air with a fan on it. > This lowered the temp about a few degrees but was the source of > heat as well in the basement. > The Chiller is the best way to go as well as using a sheet insulation > on all sides of the tank except the front. Also take the lighting fixture > up off the surface of the hood a few inches in summer will help from > adding > any heat in. See below- > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4900 > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27432	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN)

If you are going with the ice cubes idea, it would be even better to freeze 1L or 2L bottles of water. They will last a lot longer and you won't have to constantly be filling ice trays and zip loc bags and the 1L bottles can stand upright in a freezer so they do not take up much room. You might want to try 1L bottles first on a 20G since you don't want it to cool down too fast. 32C is 89.6F. Here's a simple calculator page. http://www.lenntech.com/unit-conversion-calculator/temperature.htm -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN) Hi Steve.. It's a 20 G community tank, with closed wooden top to hide the lighting. and I have another 2 G tank for guppy fry, but these don't really matter, I can simply stop "saving" them out of the big tank and let the others eat them as a rich fresh protein meal. I'm more interested in cooling the 20 G. The temperature in some summer days can reach 32 C (don't know how many F degrees is that). I can't find any aquarium chillers here in my country, and the "poor man's" chiller will put the living room in chaos. but I'm very interested in the ice cubes idea, I never thought this might work. I guess I'll spend the whole day watching the thermometer and filling ice trays in the frig! especially on those very hot days. It isn't quite practical , but I'll write it down in my notebook untill I hear about a better idea. Thanks for your advise. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN It is interesting that your guppies were dying at 30C. The temperature range they can live in goes up into the 90's F. You do not mention the size of your tank(s), so it is difficult to determine the best course of action for you. A chiller has been mentioned already, but they can be expensive purchase and to run. A fan blowing across the surface of the water can induce some evaporative cooling, but then you would need to add water every day to keep the water level up. Floating ice in the tank can help, but then you would need to ensure a steady supply of ice. One thing that can work very well is to build your own "poor man's" chiller. To do so, you would need a small dorm refrigerator, a good length of aquarium tubing, a small water pump, and some sealant. Google "DIY chiller" (with the quotes) for articles on how to make your own chiller. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN Hi! Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that could be done to save my babies. The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run up so quickly. and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have nasal sinus problems. Any suggestions are welcomed! Noura ------------------------------------ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27433	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums!

Hi Noura, It is hard to know what country I am dealing with by just E mail address. I have used Ice cubes as well on specially hot days but your frig will not keep up. Thus what I do is use the larger snapple plastic 32 Oz type bottle and allow those to freeze solid- several will be needed as it takes a number of hours to freeze solid. I cut off the tops and scrub all the labels off. Then when the container is in the tank for a few minutes the 80+ degree water allows the ICE to slip out of plastics and I use fish water to freeze again. What some have not said that is still important is that the temperature must not be changed very abruptly but should go slowly. The reason I bring this up is that a lot of little ICE cubes will melt faster and change temperature the same. Whereas a larger mass will take longer to melt and change the temp slower. The 32C is around 89 F.. to me 82 is high and I never let it get past that. Use this converter- http://www.themoneyalert.com/TemperatureConversionCalculator.html Here is a complete table- http://www.albireo.ch/temperatureconverter/table.htm Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. N Taweel wrote: > > > Hi Steve.. It's a 20 G community tank, with closed wooden top to hide the > lighting. and I have another 2 G tank for guppy fry, but these don't > really > matter, I can simply stop "saving" them out of the big tank and let the > others eat them as a rich fresh protein meal. I'm more interested in > cooling the 20 G. The temperature in some summer days can reach 32 C > (don't > know how many F degrees is that). > I can't find any aquarium chillers here in my country, and the "poor > man's" > chiller will put the living room in chaos. but I'm very interested in the > ice cubes idea, I never thought this might work. I guess I'll spend the > whole day watching the thermometer and filling ice trays in the frig! > especially on those very hot days. > It isn't quite practical , but I'll write it down in my notebook untill I > hear about a better idea. Thanks for your advise. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:13 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN > > It is interesting that your guppies were dying at 30C. The temperature > range they can live in goes up into the 90's F. You do not mention the > size of your tank(s), so it is difficult to determine the best course of > action for you. A chiller has been mentioned already, but they can be > expensive purchase and to run. > > A fan blowing across the surface of the water can induce some > evaporative cooling, but then you would need to add water every day to > keep the water level up. Floating ice in the tank can help, but then you > would need to ensure a steady supply of ice. > > One thing that can work very well is to build your own "poor man's" > chiller. To do so, you would need a small dorm refrigerator, a good > length of aquarium tubing, a small water pump, and some sealant. Google > "DIY chiller" (with the quotes) for articles on how to make your own > chiller. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN > > Hi! > Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high > temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. > Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything > that > could be done to save my babies. > The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't > think > that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will > run > up so quickly. > and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son > have > nasal sinus problems. > Any suggestions are welcomed! > > Noura > > ------------------------------------ > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN

Higher O2 levels do not necessarily translate into lower CO2 levels. Are you using CO2 injection? If not, then your fish and ecology will continue to put out the same amount of CO2 but it will outgas faster due to the increased surface agitation but it's a trade-off that you might have to do to save your fish. I read you were also considering the ice method for cooling down the tank and I replied to that post also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN Sounds like a good idea too. Maybe it's a silly question, but won't the plants be affected by the high O2 level? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:14 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN Uncover the tank and take a fan and aim it at the surface of the water on high speed. Increase circulation and surface agitation by changing how the filter system water is returned to the tank and/or add air stones to the tank. These steps will increase the O2 levels in the water which is needed when the water temps get higher. They will also help increase the evaporation rate which will release some of the heat from the water. Of course, you will lose more water to evaporation so you will have to top it off more often and be diligent with your larger weekly 25% PWC's since you will have more of a buildup of salts, etc. since they do not evaporate when the water does. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27435	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN)

Some bag the ice, while others just drop it in. I would suppose it would depend mostly on your water and situation. Adding unbagged ice will raise your water level to a certain extent, so you would need to be careful of that. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN) Hi Steve.. It's a 20 G community tank, with closed wooden top to hide the lighting. and I have another 2 G tank for guppy fry, but these don't really matter, I can simply stop "saving" them out of the big tank and let the others eat them as a rich fresh protein meal. I'm more interested in cooling the 20 G. The temperature in some summer days can reach 32 C (don't know how many F degrees is that). I can't find any aquarium chillers here in my country, and the "poor man's" chiller will put the living room in chaos. but I'm very interested in the ice cubes idea, I never thought this might work. I guess I'll spend the whole day watching the thermometer and filling ice trays in the frig! especially on those very hot days. It isn't quite practical , but I'll write it down in my notebook untill I hear about a better idea. Thanks for your advise. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN It is interesting that your guppies were dying at 30C. The temperature range they can live in goes up into the 90's F. You do not mention the size of your tank(s), so it is difficult to determine the best course of action for you. A chiller has been mentioned already, but they can be expensive purchase and to run. A fan blowing across the surface of the water can induce some evaporative cooling, but then you would need to add water every day to keep the water level up. Floating ice in the tank can help, but then you would need to ensure a steady supply of ice. One thing that can work very well is to build your own "poor man's" chiller. To do so, you would need a small dorm refrigerator, a good length of aquarium tubing, a small water pump, and some sealant. Google "DIY chiller" (with the quotes) for articles on how to make your own chiller. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning the heat DOWN Hi! Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that could be done to save my babies. The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run up so quickly. and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have nasal sinus problems. Any suggestions are welcomed! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27436	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Turning the heat DOWN

Hi Lana, You are correct but what they are is little refrigerators. There is a device I have seen that uses a peltier effect device but they are over $100 too and just are heat exchangers similar to what I was doing only better looking. see http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/112/Coolworks-IceProbe These are cheaper coolers. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Lana Gibbons wrote: > > I was just about to ask this question and I have to say, YIKES, those > chillers are pricy!! > > -Lana > > 2008/4/27 Sam Palermo <skywavebe@... > <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net>>: > > > Hi Noura, > > > > There are ways to keep your tank cooler > > They are know as Chillers. They are regulated by > > a thermostat. I have also tried in my 55 gallon tanks to use > > Peltier effect devices mounted on two heat sinks- one smaller > > one in the water and the other in the air with a fan on it. > > This lowered the temp about a few degrees but was the source of > > heat as well in the basement. > > The Chiller is the best way to go as well as using a sheet insulation > > on all sides of the tank except the front. Also take the lighting > fixture > > up off the surface of the hood a few inches in summer will help from > > adding > > any heat in. See below- > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4900 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4900> > > > > Best regards, > > > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > > (708)334-2260 > > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs > > ,_._,___

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27437	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN)

Noura, I use frozen water bottles. Different sizes. Basically every summer I start filling the freezer with water bottles and gatorade bottles for heat waves. This way I do not need to treat ice trays for chloramines. -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 10:17:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n-taweel@... writes: the living room in chaos. but I'm very interested in the ice cubes idea, I never thought this might work. I guess I'll spend the whole day watching the thermometer and filling ice trays in the frig! especially on those very hot days. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27438	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?

Very easy to setup. Maybe 5 minutes? You only need to use the sponge. You can place the other items to the side. I forgot to mention in a previous post that you can control the water flow a little bit with this filter. When I started getting more interested in aquariums I bought a dozen or more different filters used from my local aquarium societies that I attend. The AquaClear is no more difficult to use than any other. Lenny, myself and others posted all the different things you CAN do with them. This may have made it seem more difficult than it really is to use. Hmmm? I wonder if Lenny's famous Blog has a pic by pic instruction page for setting up AquaClear filters yet? :) -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 6:09:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Knowledge would be good to have anyhow - might consider getting one in the future. But it sounds like it is very involved and not for a beginner. One has to know what media to get and how to make filters out of it since only the biological filter comes with it. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27439	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Dora, What exactly did I say that made you think he is slimy? I need you to quote that one line as I think you may be confusing comments about two different people. I do not like being misunderstood or having things taken out of context. Oh, I am on the other two fish lists you are on and know those conversations as well. Nothing said on those lists are much different than what was said there. It can be a small world in the aquarium hobby. -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 6:09:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Nothing could more vividly or conclusively prove that the man is nuts. In fact, until you mentioned that I had begun to wonder if he is fairly rational but slimy. In fact, I thought people had been saying this to me on the two lists where it's been discussed and I was slow to realize what they were saying. That's why I wasn't saying anything more about it. If he's broken with the company he had partnered with to invent, produce and sell that product, there could be a dispute over who owns or has rights **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27440	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Suicidal Hatchets!

Hi Bill, Give them another look again. They are essentially a Flying Fish. That thin compressed deep body, the whole thing is both Rudder and fuselage. This flat section is very conducive to giving them some control when in the air. As well as their fins for control or catching the wind to help give them a little more time in the air. This gives them another way to escape predators in the wild, use the air. Form follows function. Fascinating fish. Sorry you lost some. Sounds like she may need a Wingman when the hood is open. Sorry, couldn't help the wing pun. -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 7:22:22 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bill@... writes: Hi All, Hatchet Fish have been 1 of my favorites since I was young. I read a bit back then and knew of the need for a hood because they jump out of the tank. I never saw it or had it happen to me. When the fish interest was renewed last year mostly with my wife, I got a few more. They have turned out to be some of the most long lived fish we had. We have not been as successful with the Betas, and by far not with the Angels. Our current hatchets are bigger then I ever seen. I had a 10 gallon back then. We have a 30 gallon now. A few months back, my wife found a hatchet dead on the carpet. It must have jumped out when she was changing the water, and did not notice it. WELL, it happened again this morning when she was feeding them. She saw the hatchet jump out! She had a total fit. I got it back in the water in about 30 seconds. All seems to be OK.... What a wacky behavior! Thank You, Bill Lane **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27441	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?

Well, easier than it sounded. Chuckle. When I went to Petsmart I found that four $5 more the aqua clear power filter now has three filters; the sponge, the charcoal, and the - pebbles. Grin. Not kidding, they have a bag of large pebbles to sit on top of the whole thing. But design looked suspiciously identical to a Whisper. Probably much higher quality, but I decided to go with the Penguin - which is actually also identical except for the bio-wheel. Grin. Took me a half hour to get th emotor to quiet down. But now it seems to be working well. Now to go get the fish - and too bad I'm not a fish. It won't stop raining. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? Very easy to setup. Maybe 5 minutes? You only need to use the sponge. You can place the other items to the side. I forgot to mention in a previous post that you can control the water flow a little bit with this filter. When I started getting more interested in aquariums I bought a dozen or more different filters used from my local aquarium societies that I attend. The AquaClear is no more difficult to use than any other. Lenny, myself and others posted all the different things you CAN do with them. This may have made it seem more difficult than it really is to use. Hmmm? I wonder if Lenny's famous Blog has a pic by pic instruction page for setting up AquaClear filters yet? :) -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 6:09:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Knowledge would be good to have anyhow - might consider getting one in the future. But it sounds like it is very involved and not for a beginner. One has to know what media to get and how to make filters out of it since only the biological filter comes with it. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27442	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?

The "pebbles" are where additional beneficial bacteria can colonize. You will probably notice that all HOB (hang on back) power filters all basically have the same shape. Even 30 years or more ago when they were trying to use air driven filtration the little HOB air driven filters have the same shape as the current line of filters. -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 12:51:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Well, easier than it sounded. Chuckle. When I went to Petsmart I found that four $5 more the aqua clear power filter now has three filters; the sponge, the charcoal, and the - pebbles. Grin. Not kidding, they have a bag of large pebbles to sit on top of the whole thing. But design looked suspiciously identical to a Whisper. Probably much higher quality, but I decided to go with the Penguin - which is actually also identical except for the bio-wheel. Grin. Took me a half hour to get th emotor to quiet down. But now it seems to be working well. Now to go get the fish - and too bad I'm not a fish. It won't stop raining. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27443	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Java Fern

I got some African Fern, which prefers water movement so I moved the Java Fern to the middle of the tank and put the African Fern near the filter. The Java Fern appears to be doing better after just 2 days in the lower water flow. -Lana On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > I have a Java Fern in my tank that is starting to look like it might be > unhappy. It isn't browning but the ends of one or two of the leaves have > become a darker green than the rest. The regular Java Fern is placed > immediately in front of the intake of my in-tank whisper filter, and I am > starting to wonder if it would prefer a stiller spot in the tank (I have two > narrow leaf Java Ferns that are doing just fine on the other side of the > tank). All the other plants (naja grass, peacock moss, hornwort, hygro) are > doing just fine. Is it possible it wants a lower water flow or could > something else be wrong? > > -Lana > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27444	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

I've never seen my bettas play ball until yesterday when I fed them - there was a larger than usual worm in their freezedried mix and I figured I'd give it to them anyway. They treated the worm like a football - chasing each other around the tank, stealing it from each other... It amused them (and me!) for about an hour before one of them started to try to eat it and I took it away. -Lana > As for play thing, I've heard they > play with marbles but mine never have. My sister will put a > very small ball of aluminum foil in with elephant fish and they > play with that. Maybe a betta would too. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27445	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?

No I don't have a blog on just the AquaClear since it's rather simple. I did do a pictorial blog on the break-down, cleaning and set-up on the Bio-Wheel 200 which also shows how I modified the first filter cartridge to remove the carbon and add more floss filter pads. That blog should cover most HOB's although there is that new one from Rena that is trying to force people to have to buy filter cartridges from them but I'm sure if I ever end up with one, I'll figure out a DIY work-around to recycling the filter cartridge. I also have a pictorial blog on the break-down, cleaning and set-up of one of my Rena Filstar XP canister filters. Those two pictorial blogs should cover most other models and brands but you are certainly welcome to do a blog just on the AquaClear models. ;-) I can't blog about everything or you'll eventually get to this page... http://www.wwwdotcom.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? Very easy to setup. Maybe 5 minutes? You only need to use the sponge. You can place the other items to the side. I forgot to mention in a previous post that you can control the water flow a little bit with this filter. When I started getting more interested in aquariums I bought a dozen or more different filters used from my local aquarium societies that I attend. The AquaClear is no more difficult to use than any other. Lenny, myself and others posted all the different things you CAN do with them. This may have made it seem more difficult than it really is to use. Hmmm? I wonder if Lenny's famous Blog has a pic by pic instruction page for setting up AquaClear filters yet? :) -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 6:09:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> writes: Knowledge would be good to have anyhow - might consider getting one in the future. But it sounds like it is very involved and not for a beginner. One has to know what media to get and how to make filters out of it since only the biological filter comes with it. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27446	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

So what are the other two groups/lists that Dora has never mentioned that seems to think Dr. Tim Hovenac is anything less than reputable and honorable? I know I don't monitor as many forums as I once did but someone with a big pair of goldfish needs to stand up for Dr. Tim when people are spreading mis-statements or outright lies about him. Email me off-list with the groups/forums and I'll make an appearance and do what I do best... LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Dora, What exactly did I say that made you think he is slimy? I need you to quote that one line as I think you may be confusing comments about two different people. I do not like being misunderstood or having things taken out of context. Oh, I am on the other two fish lists you are on and know those conversations as well. Nothing said on those lists are much different than what was said there. It can be a small world in the aquarium hobby. -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 6:09:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> writes: Nothing could more vividly or conclusively prove that the man is nuts. In fact, until you mentioned that I had begun to wonder if he is fairly rational but slimy. In fact, I thought people had been saying this to me on the two lists where it's been discussed and I was slow to realize what they were saying. That's why I wasn't saying anything more about it. If he's broken with the company he had partnered with to invent, produce and sell that product, there could be a dispute over who owns or has rights No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27447	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN)

Do you just put the sealed freezed bottle in the tank? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN) If you are going with the ice cubes idea, it would be even better to freeze 1L or 2L bottles of water. They will last a lot longer and you won't have to constantly be filling ice trays and zip loc bags and the 1L bottles can stand upright in a freezer so they do not take up much room. You might want to try 1L bottles first on a 20G since you don't want it to cool down too fast. 32C is 89.6F. Here's a simple calculator page. http://www.lenntech.com/unit-conversion-calculator/temperature.htm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27448	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums!

I live in the HOT middle east, Sam. I'm sorry, I didn't get what you mean by "snapple plastic bottle". are they soft plastic bottles? we have them here to buy coke. The hint of filling them with fish water is great! but I was thinking if it's possible to use sealed bottles, would it do the same effect? I never tried any of these methods before, except when I almost 'boiled' guppy fry to death many years ago, because the heater's thermo- was not functioning well, I added ice cubes to save the few fries left. All the best Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! > Hi Noura, > > It is hard to know what country I am dealing with by just > E mail address. I have used Ice cubes as well on specially > hot days but your frig will not keep up. Thus what I do is use > the larger snapple plastic 32 Oz type bottle and allow those to > freeze solid- several will be needed as it takes a number of > hours to freeze solid. I cut off the tops and scrub all the > labels off. Then when the container is in the tank for a few > minutes the 80+ degree water allows the ICE to slip out of > plastics and I use fish water to freeze again. What some have > not said that is still important is that the temperature must > not be changed very abruptly but should go slowly. The reason > I bring this up is that a lot of little ICE cubes will melt > faster and change temperature the same. Whereas a larger mass > will take longer to melt and change the temp slower. The 32C > is around 89 F.. to me 82 is high and I never let it get past that. > Use this converter- > http://www.themoneyalert.com/TemperatureConversionCalculator.html > > Here is a complete table- > http://www.albireo.ch/temperatureconverter/table.htm > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27449	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Ocean Geotronic Product found

Hi Noura, I think due to your question I have come across a very well designed solution to our problems of temperature regulation. I have contacted the vendor and am waiting to find out what they say. But just to give you the heads up on what I found, check out this site. http://www.oceangeotronic.com/ I got tired of putting ice in the tank and the stress put on the fish as well as on myself- this solution if it is reasonable will be a big advancement in tank temperature regulation as it stands. I will give more info to the group as I do evaluations in my own case. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. N Taweel wrote: > Hi! > Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high > temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. > Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that > could be done to save my babies. > The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think > that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run > up so quickly. > and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have > nasal sinus problems. > Any suggestions are welcomed! > > Noura > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27450	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN)

Yes. They'll float on the top and you'll be able to see when the ice inside them has melted so you can then remove and refreeze them and put another frozen one or more in the tank to maintain your desired temperature. By having the layer of plastic between the ice and the tank, it will also slow down the rate that the ice melts so you can control the temperature better and not have to swap out the frozen plastic bottles as often. Keep a log of room temp, water temp, how many bottles you use at a time and how it affects your water temperature so you will have it handy for next year. I live in southern USA and our summers get into the mid-90F which would be around 34C but I just run my central A/C to keep my home temp around 74F. I checked into a DIY chiller a few years back when I realized I was having to keep my home cool even when I might not be home all day but then Hurricane Katrina hit and I had to put that project on a back burner. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN) Do you just put the sealed freezed bottle in the tank? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! (was:Turning the heat DOWN) If you are going with the ice cubes idea, it would be even better to freeze 1L or 2L bottles of water. They will last a lot longer and you won't have to constantly be filling ice trays and zip loc bags and the 1L bottles can stand upright in a freezer so they do not take up much room. You might want to try 1L bottles first on a 20G since you don't want it to cool down too fast. 32C is 89.6F. Here's a simple calculator page. http://www.lenntech.com/unit-conversion-calculator/temperature.htm No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27451	From: jviswakula	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Ornamental aquarium fish market information wanted

Hello All, Does any one know where I can obtain latest ornamental aquarium fish market information and statistics? I did a few searches on the net and got some out dated information. Regards Jinen http://www.finvillage.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27452	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ocean Geotronic Product found

Sam, thanks for that link, I see great possibilities here. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:55 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ocean Geotronic Product found > Hi Noura, > > I think due to your question I have come across a very well designed > solution to our problems of temperature regulation. > I have contacted the vendor and am waiting to find out what they say. > But just to give you the heads up on what I found, check out this site. > > http://www.oceangeotronic.com/ > > I got tired of putting ice in the tank and the stress put on the fish as > well > as on myself- this solution if it is reasonable will be a big advancement > in tank temperature regulation as it stands. > I will give more info to the group as I do evaluations in my own case. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > N Taweel wrote: >> Hi! >> Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high >> temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. >> Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything >> that >> could be done to save my babies. >> The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't >> think >> that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will >> run >> up so quickly. >> and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son >> have >> nasal sinus problems. >> Any suggestions are welcomed! >> >> Noura >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >> to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 4/27/2008 > 9:39 AM > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27453	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums!

Hi Noura, Well I am sure you have it worse than me except for gas- Petrol. The temps here in Chicago get up to 90 or maybe 100. That is at an extreme but in my basement it is always cooler below ground but I do have to fight with mid 80's still. Yes, the Snapple plastic bottles are the same as Gatorade and probably Coke as well. It is better if the bottles are smooth so the ice can drift out of the container easier. Having about 6 of them in the refrigerator to cycle through seems to be the best. Power wise, I use UPS units on my tanks for short outages and then a generator gets hooked up for longer outages. My battery chargers and aquariums are the first to get hooked in. I value all fish's lives and the small ones especially as like children they have the longest life ahead of them. If I can, I see that they survive. With some small plants at the bottom of the tank- plastic, they always seem to survive well. Even my pond outside is overpopulated. I will let everyone know the results of my experience with Ocean 300 model when I test it. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. N Taweel wrote: > > I live in the HOT middle east, Sam. > I'm sorry, I didn't get what you mean by "snapple plastic bottle". are > they > soft plastic bottles? we have them here to buy coke. > The hint of filling them with fish water is great! but I was thinking if > it's possible to use sealed bottles, would it do the same effect? > I never tried any of these methods before, except when I almost 'boiled' > guppy fry to death many years ago, because the heater's thermo- was not > functioning well, I added ice cubes to save the few fries left. > > All the best > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@... > <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:45 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! > > > Hi Noura, > > > > It is hard to know what country I am dealing with by just > > E mail address. I have used Ice cubes as well on specially > > hot days but your frig will not keep up. Thus what I do is use > > the larger snapple plastic 32 Oz type bottle and allow those to > > freeze solid- several will be needed as it takes a number of > > hours to freeze solid. I cut off the tops and scrub all the > > labels off. Then when the container is in the tank for a few > > minutes the 80+ degree water allows the ICE to slip out of > > plastics and I use fish water to freeze again. What some have > > not said that is still important is that the temperature must > > not be changed very abruptly but should go slowly. The reason > > I bring this up is that a lot of little ICE cubes will melt > > faster and change temperature the same. Whereas a larger mass > > will take longer to melt and change the temp slower. The 32C > > is around 89 F.. to me 82 is high and I never let it get past that. > > Use this converter- > > http://www.themoneyalert.com/TemperatureConversionCalculator.html > <http://www.themoneyalert.com/TemperatureConversionCalculator.html> > > > > Here is a complete table- > > http://www.albireo.ch/temperatureconverter/table.htm > <http://www.albireo.ch/temperatureconverter/table.htm> > > > > Best regards, > > > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > > (708)334-2260 > > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27454	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ocean Geotronic Product found

This does look interesting. It seems to me that this has been around for a while. Though I cannot put my finger on it right now, I know I have seen these units before. Now that I have looked up the company, I know that it has been around since the first thing I thought when I went to your link was Italian, and it is indeed an Italian company that manufactures these units. I'm sure that some judicious searching via Google or a specialized search engine should turn up more about these things and if they work as advertised. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ocean Geotronic Product found Hi Noura, I think due to your question I have come across a very well designed solution to our problems of temperature regulation. I have contacted the vendor and am waiting to find out what they say. But just to give you the heads up on what I found, check out this site. http://www.oceangeotronic.com/ I got tired of putting ice in the tank and the stress put on the fish as well as on myself- this solution if it is reasonable will be a big advancement in tank temperature regulation as it stands. I will give more info to the group as I do evaluations in my own case. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. N Taweel wrote: > Hi! > Last year I lost almost all of my 'home-bred' goupies due to high > temperature. They were dying one after the other during one month. > Now the summer is almost here, and I was wondering if there's anything that > could be done to save my babies. > The temperature reaches 30 C sometimes, it's 29 C right now. I don't think > that daily PWC (5%) will make any difference in temperature, as it will run > up so quickly. > and I can't use my air conditioner anymore because both me and my son have > nasal sinus problems. > Any suggestions are welcomed! > > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27455	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ornamental aquarium fish market information wanted

You might try PIJAC, It is found at http://www.pijac.org. You may need to be a member to get the information you need, if they have it, and it is likely they do, for the US at least. Another site to check for US information would be http://www.firstgov.gov, which is a gateway search engine for all thing governmental in the US. Other countries may have similar sites. You may also wish to check out the United Nations site as well. Search terms used count for a lot was well as how they are arranged. Look around for specialty search engines as well. I find that they often do a better job than general search engines. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jviswakula Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ornamental aquarium fish market information wanted Hello All, Does any one know where I can obtain latest ornamental aquarium fish market information and statistics? I did a few searches on the net and got some out dated information. Regards Jinen http://www.finvillage.com ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27456	From: robert_121965	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: wanted: Freshwater fish

If anyone lives in near the Port Huron area of Michigan That has fish that are not sick that have to get rid of them please let me know...I will take them in...Your Freind Robert

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27457	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: wanted: Freshwater fish

Robert, You should say what size tank(s) you have since not all fish can go into smaller tanks and smaller tanks are more common than the BIG ones. You don't want to take on something like a Pacu that someone might be trying to get rid of since the local store sold it to them without telling them it would need a 500G++ tank. The same thing happens with Oscar's and Goldfish where people get them as babies thinking they can keep them in smaller tanks and then have to get rid of them when they learn that they need BIG tanks.. 55G++. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robert_121965 Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] wanted: Freshwater fish If anyone lives in near the Port Huron area of Michigan That has fish that are not sick that have to get rid of them please let me know...I will take them in...Your Freind Robert No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27458	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

How funny. Do you have two that get along? I wish mine would... Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sun 4/27/2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta Question I've never seen my bettas play ball until yesterday when I fed them - there was a larger than usual worm in their freezedried mix and I figured I'd give it to them anyway. They treated the worm like a football - chasing each other around the tank, stealing it from each other... It amused them (and me!) for about an hour before one of them started to try to eat it and I took it away. -Lana > As for play thing, I've heard they > play with marbles but mine never have. My sister will put a > very small ball of aluminum foil in with elephant fish and they > play with that. Maybe a betta would too. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27459	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

I have 4 girls that get along now that I have enough plants in the tank. Haven't tried the boys yet. :) -Lana On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Swatek-Rice, Traci <t-swatek@...> wrote: > How funny. Do you have two that get along? I wish mine would... > > Traci Swatek-Rice > Hazmat Technician > DMOS5 manufacturing > Texas Instruments > <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27460	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Steve, if he invented things as an employee of a company, than usually the company holds the patents. He wouldn't. Maybe he wishes he did. You're pro Dr. Tim. I get it. I am not pro Dr. Tim. You bullying me will not make me pro Dr. Tim. Dr. Tim bullying me would not make me pro Dr. Tim either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. "If he's broken with the company he had partnered with to invent, produce and sell that product, there could be a dispute over who owns or has rights to the patent, and he could be trying to use the same formula or one that is similar enough to end him up in court, without it having been settled who has the right to use the formula, and he might be trying to evade the issue by refusing to say zit to anybody about what is in the product." First, he was with Marineland for nearly 20 years as an employee, not a partner. He had a hand in many creations that made their way to market. Doing a quick patent search, I found his name to be on 5 patents as the inventor, and each of those were assigned to Aquaria, Inc. This would not be unusual, since many employee contracts will have a section covering patentable inventions where either to corporation will either own the patent outright or have the rights to the patent. This is most likely the reason why he is being quiet on the formulation that he is selling. Before tossing about any terms about a person in a discussion, especially if he is not there to defend himself, one should have all the facts. Using the defense that other people are doing it is no defense at all. Don't you remember how well that argument worked with your parents when you were younger? Never flew, did it? Doesn't fly here either. What would need to be done is to have someone test both products, the one from Tetra, and the one from Tim Hovanec, under controlled conditions, to determine which is better at meeting the claims for the product. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Nothing could more vividly or conclusively prove that the man is nuts. In fact, until you mentioned that I had begun to wonder if he is fairly rational but slimy. In fact, I thought people had been saying this to me on the two lists where it's been discussed and I was slow to realize what they were saying. That's why I wasn't saying anything more about it. If he's broken with the company he had partnered with to invent, produce and sell that product, there could be a dispute over who owns or has rights to the patent, and he could be trying to use the same formula or one that is similar enough to end him up in court, without it having been settled who has the right to use the formula, and he might be trying to evade the issue by refusing to say zit to anybody about what is in the product. If he is, I've an idea that dog won't hunt. ;) People aren't going through what we've been going through to get the former product to get his nattily packaged offline product that he won't even say what bacteria are in it. As for your second comment, the trustworthiness of the company selling a product has everything to do with whether I do business with it. And the switch from scientific genius to nut on the fringe of hte business seems to cry for an explanation. I mean, the man invited speculation about him when he refused to tell me if his product contains nitrospira! How can he go from brilliant researcher to not bright enough to say if his product contains nitrospira. With that I'm done with it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Dora as I mentioned in a previous posting the Author of the book threatened legal action to the members of the list as well as the group owner who was an old friend of his. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27461	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

I explained well enough what is slimy about him six times now. That's enough times. I can't make you think he is slimy. Go over to his web site, and buy all his products, for all I care. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Dora, What exactly did I say that made you think he is slimy? I need you to quote that one line as I think you may be confusing comments about two different people. I do not like being misunderstood or having things taken out of context. Oh, I am on the other two fish lists you are on and know those conversations as well. Nothing said on those lists are much different than what was said there. It can be a small world in the aquarium hobby. -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 6:09:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Nothing could more vividly or conclusively prove that the man is nuts. In fact, until you mentioned that I had begun to wonder if he is fairly rational but slimy. In fact, I thought people had been saying this to me on the two lists where it's been discussed and I was slow to realize what they were saying. That's why I wasn't saying anything more about it. If he's broken with the company he had partnered with to invent, produce and sell that product, there could be a dispute over who owns or has rights **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27462	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?

Lenny, under what category is this blog? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 3:52 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? No I don't have a blog on just the AquaClear since it's rather simple. I did do a pictorial blog on the break-down, cleaning and set-up on the Bio-Wheel 200 which also shows how I modified the first filter cartridge to remove the carbon and add more floss filter pads. That blog should cover most HOB's although there is that new one from Rena that is trying to force people to have to buy filter cartridges from them but I'm sure if I ever end up with one, I'll figure out a DIY work-around to recycling the filter cartridge. I also have a pictorial blog on the break-down, cleaning and set-up of one of my Rena Filstar XP canister filters. Those two pictorial blogs should cover most other models and brands but you are certainly welcome to do a blog just on the AquaClear models. ;-) I can't blog about everything or you'll eventually get to this page... http://www.wwwdotcom.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? Very easy to setup. Maybe 5 minutes? You only need to use the sponge. You can place the other items to the side. I forgot to mention in a previous post that you can control the water flow a little bit with this filter. When I started getting more interested in aquariums I bought a dozen or more different filters used from my local aquarium societies that I attend. The AquaClear is no more difficult to use than any other. Lenny, myself and others posted all the different things you CAN do with them. This may have made it seem more difficult than it really is to use. Hmmm? I wonder if Lenny's famous Blog has a pic by pic instruction page for setting up AquaClear filters yet? :) -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 6:09:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> writes: Knowledge would be good to have anyhow - might consider getting one in the future. But it sounds like it is very involved and not for a beginner. One has to know what media to get and how to make filters out of it since only the biological filter comes with it. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27463	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?

What do you mean by what category? I have each article with a title on the right side separated by the month and year that I wrote the article. I have labels (also on the right side) applied to each article generally outlining what each article is about and there is a search feature at the top of my blog to search for specific things. I'm not sure how much easier I can make it to find information on my blog. You can also Google a particular thing and add goldlenny to your search and you will likely find my blog article or one of the many thousands of posts I've made under the goldlenny pen-name which I've been using for the past four years in every forum that I subscribe to. For example, here's a Google search on what goldlenny has said about bio-spira. http://www.google.com/search?q=goldlenny+bio-spira&num=50&hl=en&safe=off&fil ter=0 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 10:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? Lenny, under what category is this blog? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 3:52 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? No I don't have a blog on just the AquaClear since it's rather simple. I did do a pictorial blog on the break-down, cleaning and set-up on the Bio-Wheel 200 which also shows how I modified the first filter cartridge to remove the carbon and add more floss filter pads. That blog should cover most HOB's although there is that new one from Rena that is trying to force people to have to buy filter cartridges from them but I'm sure if I ever end up with one, I'll figure out a DIY work-around to recycling the filter cartridge. I also have a pictorial blog on the break-down, cleaning and set-up of one of my Rena Filstar XP canister filters. Those two pictorial blogs should cover most other models and brands but you are certainly welcome to do a blog just on the AquaClear models. ;-) I can't blog about everything or you'll eventually get to this page... http://www.wwwdotcom.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What's good filter? Very easy to setup. Maybe 5 minutes? You only need to use the sponge. You can place the other items to the side. I forgot to mention in a previous post that you can control the water flow a little bit with this filter. When I started getting more interested in aquariums I bought a dozen or more different filters used from my local aquarium societies that I attend. The AquaClear is no more difficult to use than any other. Lenny, myself and others posted all the different things you CAN do with them. This may have made it seem more difficult than it really is to use. Hmmm? I wonder if Lenny's famous Blog has a pic by pic instruction page for setting up AquaClear filters yet? :) -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 6:09:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> writes: Knowledge would be good to have anyhow - might consider getting one in the future. But it sounds like it is very involved and not for a beginner. One has to know what media to get and how to make filters out of it since only the biological filter comes with it. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: 4/26/2008 2:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27464	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

If you read the message, Hovanec's name is on them, but the assignee is Aquaria, Inc. Aquaria, inc. was a company that held the Marineland brand name. Now that Marineland has passed through a number of hands, I cannot say what has happened to the patent rights associated with his patents. That would depend upon the agreement that Hovanec had with his employers at the time. Generally, but not always, intellectual property passes along with the purchase, but my quick search did not give me the information to ascertain that had happened. Also, there are such things as non-compete agreements, which may or may not hold up in court, depending on the terms, and agreements covering the use of what is considered to be proprietary knowledge. It could be any of the above, or a combination of the above, which may prevent him from talking about the product he now has. It is not that I am defending him per se, it is just that one should not jump to conclusions without knowing the facts. I am covered by some of the same agreements mentioned above, and if you asked about some aspects of my business, I would be as evasive as he seems to be, not because I am whack, but because I cannot speak of them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Steve, if he invented things as an employee of a company, than usually the company holds the patents. He wouldn't. Maybe he wishes he did. You're pro Dr. Tim. I get it. I am not pro Dr. Tim. You bullying me will not make me pro Dr. Tim. Dr. Tim bullying me would not make me pro Dr. Tim either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. "If he's broken with the company he had partnered with to invent, produce and sell that product, there could be a dispute over who owns or has rights to the patent, and he could be trying to use the same formula or one that is similar enough to end him up in court, without it having been settled who has the right to use the formula, and he might be trying to evade the issue by refusing to say zit to anybody about what is in the product." First, he was with Marineland for nearly 20 years as an employee, not a partner. He had a hand in many creations that made their way to market. Doing a quick patent search, I found his name to be on 5 patents as the inventor, and each of those were assigned to Aquaria, Inc. This would not be unusual, since many employee contracts will have a section covering patentable inventions where either to corporation will either own the patent outright or have the rights to the patent. This is most likely the reason why he is being quiet on the formulation that he is selling. Before tossing about any terms about a person in a discussion, especially if he is not there to defend himself, one should have all the facts. Using the defense that other people are doing it is no defense at all. Don't you remember how well that argument worked with your parents when you were younger? Never flew, did it? Doesn't fly here either. What would need to be done is to have someone test both products, the one from Tetra, and the one from Tim Hovanec, under controlled conditions, to determine which is better at meeting the claims for the product. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Nothing could more vividly or conclusively prove that the man is nuts. In fact, until you mentioned that I had begun to wonder if he is fairly rational but slimy. In fact, I thought people had been saying this to me on the two lists where it's been discussed and I was slow to realize what they were saying. That's why I wasn't saying anything more about it. If he's broken with the company he had partnered with to invent, produce and sell that product, there could be a dispute over who owns or has rights to the patent, and he could be trying to use the same formula or one that is similar enough to end him up in court, without it having been settled who has the right to use the formula, and he might be trying to evade the issue by refusing to say zit to anybody about what is in the product. If he is, I've an idea that dog won't hunt. ;) People aren't going through what we've been going through to get the former product to get his nattily packaged offline product that he won't even say what bacteria are in it. As for your second comment, the trustworthiness of the company selling a product has everything to do with whether I do business with it. And the switch from scientific genius to nut on the fringe of hte business seems to cry for an explanation. I mean, the man invited speculation about him when he refused to tell me if his product contains nitrospira! How can he go from brilliant researcher to not bright enough to say if his product contains nitrospira. With that I'm done with it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Dora as I mentioned in a previous posting the Author of the book threatened legal action to the members of the list as well as the group owner who was an old friend of his.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27465	From: Rei - Raymond Tremor	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

Boys will never get along until one of them is dead. I had tried it in a 15 gallon tank with other fishes and I had 4 of them with lots of plants to hide. It was fine the first week then the plakat (king or fighter) fought with each of them. I had tried a single male and 4 or 5 females and it kinda work except they still fight for alpha position. -------Original Message------- From: Lana Gibbons Date: 4/27/2008 4:31:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta Question I have 4 girls that get along now that I have enough plants in the tank. Haven't tried the boys yet. :) -Lana On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Swatek-Rice, Traci <t-swatek@...> wrote: > How funny. Do you have two that get along? I wish mine would... > > Traci Swatek-Rice > Hazmat Technician > DMOS5 manufacturing > Texas Instruments > <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27466	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Recomendations for a large air pump

Hi Friends. I have a 4x6' wire rack, with a bunch of 2.5, 5, and 10 gallon tanks. I want to get a large air pump... to supply the air instead of many leeeetle pumps. Granted, a large pump is the single point of failure. However, Its annoying with many AC wires dangling, and extra hoses from the pumps feeding all thet tanks. I will use 1/2 or 3/4" PVC to route the air from a large pump to all the shelves, and small valves inserted into the PVC, to hook up the air to the filters in each tank. Im using the tanks to raise killis, gouramis, goodei, and dwarf cichlids. Does anyone have any recomendation on a large QUIET air pump? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27467	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 4/27/2008
Subject: Green faced mout hbrooding goruami???

Hi Friends, Recently I aquired 3 pait of mout brooding gouramis, with the male green area on his cheek area. I think they are called green faced gouramis. (at this late hour, I cant seem to find the exact name of the fish on internet.) Today, my fiancee, sons and I, watched them spawn, and the female pitch the eggs to the male. What a glorious experience! Last time I witnessed gouramis spawn was a pair of blue gouramis 20 years ago. My youngest sons recalls watching them with me. What a breathtaking color change from powder blue to a deep navy color. And the pearl spots were spectacular against the navey background. The eggs hatched in the bubble nest and I did get quite a few fry. Tonight, we watched the new gouramis spawn. we also watched the female pitch the eggs at the male. However, not long after they stopped spawning, I fed the community tank, and watched the male eating flake food. I was under the impression that the male would not eat until the fry hatched, and were brooded until the fry were released by the male. I did get some video of the female pitching the eggs. However, when they embraced two expel and fertilize the eggs, yep... your got it.. Murphy's Law, ran out of BATTERY. I gotta get a new video... QUESTIONS: 1. Does anyone know the common and scientific name for these gourami? 2. What is the spawining and rearing behaviour of these gourami? I dont think it will be too terribly long until I get the urge to aquire a wild breed of gouramis. Thanks to Larry in Gaithersburg for providing me with the superb fish. They have an interesting personality compared to the other gouramis I raise. Thanks! Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27468	From: William J. Scott	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

Now Now all, lets keep it friendly. I think now would be a great time to drop this thread and get on with fishy things. Bill -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 4/27/2008 7:49:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. I explained well enough what is slimy about him six times now. That's enough times. I can't make you think he is slimy. Go over to his web site, and buy all his products, for all I care. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S. Dora, What exactly did I say that made you think he is slimy? I need you to quote that one line as I think you may be confusing comments about two different people. I do not like being misunderstood or having things taken out of context. Oh, I am on the other two fish lists you are on and know those conversations as well. Nothing said on those lists are much different than what was said there. It can be a small world in the aquarium hobby. -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 6:09:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Nothing could more vividly or conclusively prove that the man is nuts. In fact, until you mentioned that I had begun to wonder if he is fairly rational but slimy. In fact, I thought people had been saying this to me on the two lists where it's been discussed and I was slow to realize what they were saying. That's why I wasn't saying anything more about it. If he's broken with the company he had partnered with to invent, produce and sell that product, there could be a dispute over who owns or has rights **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27469	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra safestart to begin sales in U.S.

No, what is apparent is you are unwilling to back up what you said by quoting what I wrote. -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 8:17:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: explained well enough what is slimy about him six times now. That's enough times. I can't make you think he is slimy. Go over to his web site, and buy all his products, for all I care. Yours, Dora Smith **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27470	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: wanted: Freshwater fish

Robert, I moderate a Give and receive free fish list here on yahoo. There are actually very few fish given away but occasionally it happens. You might be able to find someone local. Or at least find a local aquarium society? Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 6:08:11 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, robert_121965@... writes: If anyone lives in near the Port Huron area of Michigan That has fish that are not sick that have to get rid of them please let me know...I will take them in...Your Freind Robert **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27471	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Recomendations for a large air pump

Jim, I went from two outlet air pumps to a small linear air pump. How many air lines do you want to run? I really like the linear pumps, but they do make some noise. Where is your rack located? Have you considered putting the large air pump in a different room and running an air hose to the rack? -Mike In a message dated 4/27/2008 9:17:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jmdarlack@... writes: Hi Friends. I have a 4x6' wire rack, with a bunch of 2.5, 5, and 10 gallon tanks. I want to get a large air pump... to supply the air instead of many leeeetle pumps. Granted, a large pump is the single point of failure. However, Its annoying with many AC wires dangling, and extra hoses from the pumps feeding all thet tanks. I will use 1/2 or 3/4" PVC to route the air from a large pump to all the shelves, and small valves inserted into the PVC, to hook up the air to the filters in each tank. Im using the tanks to raise killis, gouramis, goodei, and dwarf cichlids. Does anyone have any recomendation on a large QUIET air pump? Thanks, Jim **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27473	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Removed Re: [AquaticLife] ###FRESH GIRLS MMS CLIPS###

the offender has been removed. -Mike **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27475	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: What's good filter?

Lenny, is this the page on how to clean or set up a biofilter that you were talking about? Thought you were specifically talking about the aquaclear - but this is the one I got! http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Carbon Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27476	From: hank voss	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums!

Noura: If you use the plastic bottle method for freezing water be sure not to fill the bottle all the way.Since water expands as it freezes and if you leave no room for expansion they may burst. Regards Hank > I live in the HOT middle east, Sam. > I'm sorry, I didn't get what you mean by "snapple plastic bottle". are they > soft plastic bottles? we have them here to buy coke. > The hint of filling them with fish water is great! but I was thinking if > it's possible to use sealed bottles, would it do the same effect? > I never tried any of these methods before, except when I almost 'boiled' > guppy fry to death many years ago, because the heater's thermo- was not > functioning well, I added ice cubes to save the few fries left. > > All the best > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:45 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! > > > > Hi Noura, > > > > It is hard to know what country I am dealing with by just > > E mail address. I have used Ice cubes as well on specially > > hot days but your frig will not keep up. Thus what I do is use > > the larger snapple plastic 32 Oz type bottle and allow those to > > freeze solid- several will be needed as it takes a number of > > hours to freeze solid. I cut off the tops and scrub all the > > labels off. Then when the container is in the tank for a few > > minutes the 80+ degree water allows the ICE to slip out of > > plastics and I use fish water to freeze again. What some have > > not said that is still important is that the temperature must > > not be changed very abruptly but should go slowly. The reason > > I bring this up is that a lot of little ICE cubes will melt > > faster and change temperature the same. Whereas a larger mass > > will take longer to melt and change the temp slower. The 32C > > is around 89 F.. to me 82 is high and I never let it get past that. > > Use this converter- > > http://www.themoneyalert.com/TemperatureConversionCalculator.html > > > > Here is a complete table- > > http://www.albireo.ch/temperatureconverter/table.htm > > > > Best regards, > > > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > > (708)334-2260 > > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27477	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

Thanks for mentioning this, I was thinking of putting a boy in with my girls but wasn't sure if it'd work. The girls seem to be pretty set in their hierarchy... did the boy try to insert himself in the hierarchy or did he try to take over and boss the girls around? I don't think pearl would go for the latter... -Lana On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 12:16 AM, Rei - Raymond Tremor <lovemoako@...> wrote: > I had tried a single male and 4 or 5 females and it kinda > work except they still fight for alpha position. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27479	From: Carmen H	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Response from Seachem on Purigen question...

Just in case anyone was interested, forwarded with permission: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by eskielists@... (Carmen) on: Saturday, April, 26, 2008 at 22:04:06 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- comments: I have used different water conditioners, some of which contain slime coat ingredients, in my 90 gallon cichlid tank. I recently purchased some Purigen but was wondering if I should hold off using it for a period of time? Would the amine compounds remain in the water from previous changes or dissipate? I also bought some Prime that I will use from now on... email2: eskielists@... SUBMIT: Send --------------------------------------------------------------------------- REMOTE_HOST: 65.92.232.5 HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.14) Gecko/20080404 Firefox/2.0.0.14 Hello, Most products will dissipate out of water within a couple of days. Either way, if you are going to use Prime from now on, it is not an issue. When you use Prime during regeneration, you cancel out the possibility of chloramines being reintroduced in to the water anyway. Let us know if we can be of any further assistance. Tech Support 10201 Tech Support ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seachem Laboratories, Inc. 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27480	From: Walden Nida	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

Bettas both male and female are best kept separately. I have kept females together for long periods and then for no reason the killing starts. Some females can be as aggressive as males. This is just their natural behavior as they must be able to defend small territories in the wild. While we have changed the finage of the wild betta into the many forms we have today we have not changed the basic nature of the fish to be a solitary creature. Wally [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27481	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Recomendations for a large air pump

Hi Mike, I currently have 13 tanks on a 4x6 rack from Costco. Altho I have two more shelves on it for more tanks. Plus an old entertainment center that will hold tanks at a 90 degree angle from the rack of tanks. So. total could be as high as 30 drops. Plus I would like to havea either a 3/4" line wrap around to the other side of the office to feed a 29 gallon tank, and a hold drilled in the wall to connect to a 55 gallon and a 5 gallon tank. I was at a freinds house and his linear pump wa quiet and also had a dispodable air filter in it. Most of th noise was the sound of the bubble up filters. Thanks, Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Jim, > > I went from two outlet air pumps to a small linear air pump. > > How many air lines do you want to run? > > I really like the linear pumps, but they do make some noise. Where is your > rack located? Have you considered putting the large air pump in a different > room and running an air hose to the rack? > > -Mike > > In a message dated 4/27/2008 9:17:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > jmdarlack@... writes: > > Hi Friends. > > I have a 4x6' wire rack, with a bunch of 2.5, 5, and 10 gallon tanks. I > want to get a large air pump... to supply the air instead of many > leeeetle pumps. Granted, a large pump is the single point of failure. > However, Its annoying with many AC wires dangling, and extra hoses from > the pumps feeding all thet tanks. I will use 1/2 or 3/4" PVC to route > the air from a large pump to all the shelves, and small valves inserted > into the PVC, to hook up the air to the filters in each tank. > > Im using the tanks to raise killis, gouramis, goodei, and dwarf > cichlids. > > Does anyone have any recomendation on a large QUIET air pump? > > Thanks, > Jim > > > > > > > **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car > listings at AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27482	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T

I'm a military brat (Semper Fi) and fully support our troops and the war on terror but usually when I see these emails, I get suspicious since 99% of them are some kind of myth perpetuated via the net. I Googled some of the key words in this "article" and this one actually appears to be legitimate. Here is an actual news report and a couple of other reports that I found with my Google Search but none of them listed the schools email addresses so I guess the story has taken on some life of it's own on the net. http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=8165144 http://current.com/items/88900238_school_suspends_boy_for_answering_iraq_cal l_from_dad http://www.parentdish.com/2008/04/16/dad-calls-from-iraq-son-gets-suspended/ You should have included "Off Topic" in your subject line... unless the dad was calling the son to inquire about the fish tanks! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Max Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! Dear Members I know this is 'off topic' but you just have to read the letter I found in one of the google groups I am a member of. Its totally outrageous!, can you imagine that you father is in the army working on the front lines in a war, then the school where his children are, do something like this...READ the letter below, you will be SHOCKED! I think everyone should write to the school, and give them a piece of their minds (as I have done). Regards Graham "I never knew finding freebies was so much fun" http://groups.google.com/group/freebiefinder/ <http://groups.google.com/group/freebiefinder/> READ THIS! Message: school suspends soldier's child for taking call dad's from Iraq Published Today at 9:35 p.m. Parent Dish by Roger Sinasohn Apr 16th 2008 Master Sgt. Morris Hill is serving his country in Iraq, a long way away from his beloved sons back in Texas. Luckily, these days, we have the means for people on opposite sides of the planet to talk to each other in real time, almost without regard to where they actually are. We have cell phones. Unfortunately, the only time Hill could call his son Brandon was during the school day -- a time when students are generally forbidden from using their cell phones. It would seem, however, that this situation would count as extraordinary circumstances and an exception could be made, but administrators disagree. Brandon was suspended for taking the call. "He called me during class, because that's the only time that he could," Brandon said. "I answered the call as I was walking out of class. The teacher followed me out and said, 'Oh what are you doing?' I said my dad was calling from Iraq, and I know he needs to talk to me." Brandon was sent to the office and given a two-day suspension. The odd part is that the father had apparently made an arrangement in advance with the assistant principal to allow his sons to receive calls from him. "He had spoken with Mr. Fletcher," said Pat Hill, the boys' mother. "He thought there was an agreement understood that if he called either Joshua or Brandon at school, that everything was fine." "If this would have been the last phone call from my husband, and he's in trouble for it and then has to deal with something happening to his dad that would be even harder," Mrs. Hill added. "These schools have to stop and realize, especially when you are in a military community, we support our soldiers, we support our troops. What about them when they are in Iraq trying to reach their family?" Mrs. Hill is trying to get the suspension removed from her son's record, but the school says the matter is closed. Whether or not you support the United States' actions overseas, you've got to understand that the soldiers are doing their job and that they and their families are still people -- people who care very much about each other and have a need to stay in contact. It seems to me that the school could be more understanding on that point.Let Copras Cove high School know what Veterans and Patriotic Americans think about their ignorant "rules." And that we would like to see "the matter reopened" so that there is not a suspension on Brandon's school record! Copperas CoveHigh School 400 S. 25th Street Copperas Cove, Tx, 76522 Phone: 254- 547-2534 Fax 254- 547-9870 Click below to E-mail Dr. Carol Saxenian- Principal saxenianc@... <mailto:saxenianc%40ccisd.com> Jimmy Shuck- Associate Principal jimmy@... <mailto:jimmy%40ccisd.com> Richard Fletcher- Assistant Principal fletcherr@... <mailto:fletcherr%40ccisd.com> Genie Jhingoor- Assistant Principal jhingoorg@... <mailto:jhingoorg%40ccisd.com> Cynthia Kostroun- Assistant Principal kostrounc@... <mailto:kostrounc%40ccisd.com> PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO ALL PATRIOTS! Call or E-Mail the above, Tell them to take the suspension OFF of Brandon Hill's records!Please take a fee minutes to contact these poor misguided educators. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 4/27/2008 9:39 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27483	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Response from Seachem on Purigen question...

I'm not so sure about the reply's comment that "most products will dissipate out of the water in a few days". Many products have chemicals that do not evaporate but if the user is running fresh carbon or other chemical filtration, it may filter out the chemicals... depending on what they are. Most of these slime-this and stress-that products rely on various sodium based compounds to achieve their results and we know that most of these salt derivatives do not evaporate and are not filtered out by chemical filtration. I would do a series of 25% PWC's to be sure you have removed most of any remnants out of your tank before risking the chance of ruining your new Purigen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:52 AM To: Aquatic Life Subject: [AquaticLife] Response from Seachem on Purigen question... Just in case anyone was interested, forwarded with permission: ---------------------------------------------------------- Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by eskielists@... <mailto:eskielists%40reskie.com> (Carmen) on: Saturday, April, 26, 2008 at 22:04:06 ---------------------------------------------------------- comments: I have used different water conditioners, some of which contain slime coat ingredients, in my 90 gallon cichlid tank. I recently purchased some Purigen but was wondering if I should hold off using it for a period of time? Would the amine compounds remain in the water from previous changes or dissipate? I also bought some Prime that I will use from now on... email2: eskielists@... <mailto:eskielists%40reskie.com> SUBMIT: Send ---------------------------------------------------------- REMOTE_HOST: 65.92.232.5 HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.14) Gecko/20080404 Firefox/2.0.0.14 Hello, Most products will dissipate out of water within a couple of days. Either way, if you are going to use Prime from now on, it is not an issue. When you use Prime during regeneration, you cancel out the possibility of chloramines being reintroduced in to the water anyway. Let us know if we can be of any further assistance. Tech Support 10201 Tech Support ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seachem Laboratories, Inc. 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 4/27/2008 9:39 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27484	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

Wally, There are several schools of thought on this and I researched it quite thoroughly before deciding to attempt a female betta community. I understand there are risks, especially of seemingly random killing - but I decided to give it a go anyway. The way my tank is setup, there are several similar small territories separated by dense plants that the girls can choose to inhabit. As I had them in there before it was so densely planted, I can say that the little territories make a world of difference - they really do like having their personal space. -Lana On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Walden Nida <wcnida@...> wrote: > Bettas both male and female are best kept separately. I have kept females > together for long periods and then for no reason the killing starts. Some > females can be as aggressive as males. This is just their natural > behavior > as they must be able to defend small territories in the wild. While we > have > changed the finage of the wild betta into the many forms we have today we > have not changed the basic nature of the fish to be a solitary creature. > > Wally > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27485	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: friend gave me a turtle..please help

i have a friend that just found a very small baby turtle and she knows i am into aquariums so she is bringing it to me tonight. i am not going to put it in my 80 gal. freshwater tank cause i know it'll kill everything. i do have an empty 20 gal. aquarium in storage...i have never had a turtle so i have no clue what to do with it...i know it needs land and water. i need help and i don't want to be rude to her, plus i think it'll kinda be cool..please help.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27486	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T

Welp, I got curious, and decided to look. Found this interesting little site which I guess brings this back on topic. :D http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Iraq.htm Unfortunatly it appears none of the links work, but its pretty easy to google the names and see the pics on other sites. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) I'm a military brat (Semper Fi) and fully support our troops and the war on terror but usually when I see these emails, I get suspicious since 99% of them are some kind of myth perpetuated via the net. I Googled some of the key words in this "article" and this one actually appears to be legitimate. Here is an actual news report and a couple of other reports that I found with my Google Search but none of them listed the schools email addresses so I guess the story has taken on some life of it's own on the net. http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=8165144 http://current.com/items/88900238_school_suspends_boy_for_answering_iraq_cal l_from_dad http://www.parentdish.com/2008/04/16/dad-calls-from-iraq-son-gets-suspended/ You should have included "Off Topic" in your subject line... unless the dad was calling the son to inquire about the fish tanks! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27488	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: friend gave me a turtle..please help

To the one with a Turtle, I have had turtles even when I was a kid, They lived pretty long even with minimum care I would have to say. Once you have an ID on what type of turtle it is, you could always consult a local pet shop as they probably know and have what the turtle likes to eat. I remember them eating lettuce and little pieces of hamburger- uncooked. To go further there are marine biologist that can direct you how to give the Turtle a long life. They will eat insects too like dead flies. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. thtanoyinguy wrote: > > i have a friend that just found a very small baby turtle and she knows > i am into aquariums so she is bringing it to me tonight. i am not going > to put it in my 80 gal. freshwater tank cause i know it'll kill > everything. i do have an empty 20 gal. aquarium in storage...i have > never had a turtle so i have no clue what to do with it...i know it > needs land and water. i need help and i don't want to be rude to her, > plus i think it'll kinda be cool..please help. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27489	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: friend gave me a turtle..please help

If its a water turtle, then you can keep it in your 20 gallon tank for a few years, it will eventually need a larger tank or outdoor enclosure. You can buy a "floating island" which you suction the rods onto the tank and the island can move up or down with the water level, or put rocks in, but the island is very easy to clean around. You should also buy a can of turtle pellets for regular food plus you can give it 'real' food as a treat, but the turtle pellets are fortified with the vitamins it needs. You must put a light over the island or rocks. Without the proper light, the turtles shell will get soft and cause much problems with deformity or even death. It should be a 'daylight' light. If its a land turtle like a box turtle or wood turtle, then the requirements are different. Let us know when you find out what kind of turtle it is. ----- Original Message ----- From: thtanoyinguy Date: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:13 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] friend gave me a turtle..please help To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > i have a friend that just found a very small baby turtle and she > knows > i am into aquariums so she is bringing it to me tonight. i am > not going > to put it in my 80 gal. freshwater tank cause i know it'll kill > everything. i do have an empty 20 gal. aquarium in storage...i > have > never had a turtle so i have no clue what to do with it...i know > it > needs land and water. i need help and i don't want to be rude to > her, > plus i think it'll kinda be cool..please help. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27490	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: friend gave me a turtle..please help

Don't mean to butt in on this, but am curious. When you say a daylight light over the basking area for the turtle, would that be a "heat" light like for reptiles or a aetnic (sp?) light for aquariums? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of betti@... Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 11:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] friend gave me a turtle..please help If its a water turtle, then you can keep it in your 20 gallon tank for a few years, it will eventually need a larger tank or outdoor enclosure. You can buy a "floating island" which you suction the rods onto the tank and the island can move up or down with the water level, or put rocks in, but the island is very easy to clean around. You should also buy a can of turtle pellets for regular food plus you can give it 'real' food as a treat, but the turtle pellets are fortified with the vitamins it needs. You must put a light over the island or rocks. Without the proper light, the turtles shell will get soft and cause much problems with deformity or even death. It should be a 'daylight' light. If its a land turtle like a box turtle or wood turtle, then the requirements are different. Let us know when you find out what kind of turtle it is. ----- Original Message ----- From: thtanoyinguy Date: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:13 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] friend gave me a turtle..please help To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > i have a friend that just found a very small baby turtle and she > knows > i am into aquariums so she is bringing it to me tonight. i am > not going > to put it in my 80 gal. freshwater tank cause i know it'll kill > everything. i do have an empty 20 gal. aquarium in storage...i > have > never had a turtle so i have no clue what to do with it...i know > it > needs land and water. i need help and i don't want to be rude to > her, > plus i think it'll kinda be cool..please help. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27491	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: friend gave me a turtle..please help

A light that gives our UV rays more than heat, but heat is good up to a certain point. Dont want to roast them though. ----- Original Message ----- From: The Dragon Hunter Date: Monday, April 28, 2008 3:46 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] friend gave me a turtle..please help To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Don't mean to butt in on this, but am curious. When you say a > daylightlight over the basking area for the turtle, would that > be a "heat" light > like for reptiles or a aetnic (sp?) light for aquariums? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of betti@... > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 11:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] friend gave me a turtle..please help > > > > If its a water turtle, then you can keep it in your 20 gallon > tank for a few > years, it will eventually need a larger tank or outdoor > enclosure. You can > buy a "floating island" which you suction the rods onto the tank > and the > island can move up or down with the water level, or put rocks > in, but the > island is very easy to clean around. You should also buy a can > of turtle > pellets for regular food plus you can give it 'real' food as a > treat, but > the turtle pellets are fortified with the vitamins it needs. > You must put a light over the island or rocks. Without the > proper light, the > turtles shell will get soft and cause much problems with > deformity or even > death. It should be a 'daylight' light. > If its a land turtle like a box turtle or wood turtle, then the > requirementsare different. Let us know when you find out what > kind of turtle it is. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thtanoyinguy > Date: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] friend gave me a turtle..please help > To: AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups.com > > i have a friend that just found a very small baby turtle and > she > > knows > > i am into aquariums so she is bringing it to me tonight. i am > > not going > > to put it in my 80 gal. freshwater tank cause i know it'll > kill > > everything. i do have an empty 20 gal. aquarium in storage...i > > have > > never had a turtle so i have no clue what to do with it...i > know > > it > > needs land and water. i need help and i don't want to be rude > to > > her, > > plus i think it'll kinda be cool..please help. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27493	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Removed Re: [AquaticLife] ###FRESH GIRLS MMS CLIPS###

Joe, That was the very next thing I did. It should no longer be in the archives. If you find it in the archives please let me know. -Mike Thank you for removing the offender. Now if someone could please also remove the message which is also offensive. joe t -----Original Message----- From: joe t <jett07002@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 2:02 pm Subject: Re:Removed Re: [AquaticLife] ###FRESH GIRLS MMS CLIPS### Thank you for removing the offender. Now if someone could please also remove the message which is also offensive. joe t --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27494	From: jason horyak	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: bad turtle probs

saw you guys writin about turtles and decided to ask: my turtle looks as though he has eye infections and cannot open his eyes due to sloughing skin. I added a dr turttle sulfur treatment but doesnt seem to be working any ideas? betti@... wrote: A light that gives our UV rays more than heat, but heat is good up to a certain point. Dont want to roast them though. ----- Original Message ----- From: The Dragon Hunter Date: Monday, April 28, 2008 3:46 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] friend gave me a turtle..please help To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Don't mean to butt in on this, but am curious. When you say a > daylightlight over the basking area for the turtle, would that > be a "heat" light > like for reptiles or a aetnic (sp?) light for aquariums? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of betti@... > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 11:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] friend gave me a turtle..please help > > > > If its a water turtle, then you can keep it in your 20 gallon > tank for a few > years, it will eventually need a larger tank or outdoor > enclosure. You can > buy a "floating island" which you suction the rods onto the tank > and the > island can move up or down with the water level, or put rocks > in, but the > island is very easy to clean around. You should also buy a can > of turtle > pellets for regular food plus you can give it 'real' food as a > treat, but > the turtle pellets are fortified with the vitamins it needs. > You must put a light over the island or rocks. Without the > proper light, the > turtles shell will get soft and cause much problems with > deformity or even > death. It should be a 'daylight' light. > If its a land turtle like a box turtle or wood turtle, then the > requirementsare different. Let us know when you find out what > kind of turtle it is. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thtanoyinguy > Date: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] friend gave me a turtle..please help > To: AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups.com > > i have a friend that just found a very small baby turtle and > she > > knows > > i am into aquariums so she is bringing it to me tonight. i am > > not going > > to put it in my 80 gal. freshwater tank cause i know it'll > kill > > everything. i do have an empty 20 gal. aquarium in storage...i > > have > > never had a turtle so i have no clue what to do with it...i > know > > it > > needs land and water. i need help and i don't want to be rude > to > > her, > > plus i think it'll kinda be cool..please help. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27495	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium/leaks/nitrates/venting

Well I re-siliconed the edges on the bottom so I could confidently add water, waited 4 days, added water and..........water all over the desk. Argh! I just spent an hour stripping the old stuff off and the front piece completely pulled off so I get to sortof rebuild this thing now. I wonder if it's even worth it. I'm so not a handy person either. To top it off my 6g tall started leaking from I don't know where. My 2.5g has been sitting with just plants in it since 2/1/08, when the radiant heat incident killed all my fish. I decided to put a little Read Sea Nana hob on it since I read crypts like current and whew, I have nitrates and nitrites like crazy. I was hoping to add fish soon too. Could it be the Rena Bio stars I put in the filter? Well it's off to the LFS for some more silicone. kate ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27496	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Paludarium/leaks/nitrates/venting

This is continued from my "paludarium questions" thread by the way if I just confused anyone. Kate --- On Mon, 4/28/08, Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> wrote: From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Paludarium/leaks/nitrates/venting To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 28, 2008, 4:32 PM Well I re-siliconed the edges on the bottom so I could confidently add water, waited 4 days, added water and......... .water all over the desk. Argh! I just spent an hour stripping the old stuff off and the front piece completely pulled off so I get to sortof rebuild this thing now. I wonder if it's even worth it. I'm so not a handy person either. To top it off my 6g tall started leaking from I don't know where. My 2.5g has been sitting with just plants in it since 2/1/08, when the radiant heat incident killed all my fish. I decided to put a little Read Sea Nana hob on it since I read crypts like current and whew, I have nitrates and nitrites like crazy. I was hoping to add fish soon too. Could it be the Rena Bio stars I put in the filter? Well it's off to the LFS for some more silicone. kate ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27497	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Removed Re: [AquaticLife] ###FRESH GIRLS MMS CLIPS###

Wait... I haven't had a chance to click all the links. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joe t Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:Removed Re: [AquaticLife] ###FRESH GIRLS MMS CLIPS### Thank you for removing the offender. Now if someone could please also remove the message which is also offensive. joe t --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 4/27/2008 9:39 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27498	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Removed Re: [AquaticLife] ###FRESH GIRLS MMS CLIPS###

Darn... I missed it! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Removed Re: [AquaticLife] ###FRESH GIRLS MMS CLIPS### Joe, That was the very next thing I did. It should no longer be in the archives. If you find it in the archives please let me know. -Mike Thank you for removing the offender. Now if someone could please also remove the message which is also offensive. joe t -----Original Message----- From: joe t <jett07002@... <mailto:jett07002%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 2:02 pm Subject: Re:Removed Re: [AquaticLife] ###FRESH GIRLS MMS CLIPS### Thank you for removing the offender. Now if someone could please also remove the message which is also offensive. joe t --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 4/27/2008 9:39 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 4/27/2008 9:39 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27499	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T

Mongabay is more than just an interesting little site. Aside from some of it's political leanings, it's probably the most thorough library of FW fish profiles/care sheets/biotope information, etc. on the internet. Like Google and many other silicon valley type companies, Mongabay suffers from leftist tree-huggerism in many of it's pages.... but heck.. I'm all for tree-huggers as long as they don't have titanium rods or plates that might mess up my chain saw blade. ;-) For some reason that page on Iraq fish has all of it's references linked to Fishbase profiles and there's some kind of server issue with the links. Here's a page of fish from Iraq http://www.fishbase.org/Country/CountryChecklist.php?c_code=368&vhabitat=all 2&csub_code= that came up on a Fishbase search from http://fishbase.org, another vast resource of fish information but the profiles aren't as easy to understand as the ones on Mongabay. I tested a couple of the links that came up on my search list and they worked so now this thread is on topic! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of The Dragon Hunter Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) Welp, I got curious, and decided to look. Found this interesting little site which I guess brings this back on topic. :D http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Iraq.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Iraq.htm> Unfortunatly it appears none of the links work, but its pretty easy to google the names and see the pics on other sites. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) I'm a military brat (Semper Fi) and fully support our troops and the war on terror but usually when I see these emails, I get suspicious since 99% of them are some kind of myth perpetuated via the net. I Googled some of the key words in this "article" and this one actually appears to be legitimate. Here is an actual news report and a couple of other reports that I found with my Google Search but none of them listed the schools email addresses so I guess the story has taken on some life of it's own on the net. http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=8165144 <http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=8165144> http://current.com/items/88900238_school_suspends_boy_for_answering_iraq_cal <http://current.com/items/88900238_school_suspends_boy_for_answering_iraq_ca l> l_from_dad http://www.parentdish.com/2008/04/16/dad-calls-from-iraq-son-gets-suspended/ <http://www.parentdish.com/2008/04/16/dad-calls-from-iraq-son-gets-suspended /> You should have included "Off Topic" in your subject line... unless the dad was calling the son to inquire about the fish tanks! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 4/27/2008 9:39 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27500	From: Christa Ciglan	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: friend gave me a turtle..please help

I know they grow at a phenomenal rate and the animal will very shortly outgrow a 20 gallon tank. Do you have any idea as to what species it is? CC --- thtanoyinguy <thtanoyinguy@...> wrote: > i have a friend that just found a very small baby > turtle and she knows > i am into aquariums so she is bringing it to me > tonight. i am not going > to put it in my 80 gal. freshwater tank cause i know > it'll kill > everything. i do have an empty 20 gal. aquarium in > storage...i have > never had a turtle so i have no clue what to do with > it...i know it > needs land and water. i need help and i don't want > to be rude to her, > plus i think it'll kinda be cool..please help. > > > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27501	From: grace42101	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: epoxy

I'm building a rock chiclid tank and am having trouble with the epoxy. The green putty isn't holding and i don't have much confidence in aquaium sealant. thanks grace

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27502	From: harry perry	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: epoxy/Grace

Super glue works without hurting your fish. Harry grace42101 <grace.hillis@...> wrote: I'm building a rock chiclid tank and am having trouble with the epoxy. The green putty isn't holding and i don't have much confidence in aquaium sealant. thanks grace Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27503	From: bmp	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T

Please, could you leave out the philosophical/political commentary? I know you would have little patience with the rest of us if we began sharing our opinions as freely as you share yours. All kinds of people care for their fish, not just right-wing conservatives such as yourself. I suggest we try to keep this place politically neutral so we can focus on the animals and plants in our care. Thanks, Beverly Peace, please! --- On Mon, 4/28/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Like Google and many other silicon valley type companies, > Mongabay suffers > from leftist tree-huggerism in many of it's pages.... > but heck.. I'm all for > tree-huggers as long as they don't have titanium rods > or plates that might > mess up my chain saw blade. ;-) > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27504	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: epoxy

I've always had very good luck with aquarium sealant. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "grace42101" <grace.hillis@...> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:51:32 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] epoxy I'm building a rock chiclid tank and am having trouble with the epoxy. The green putty isn't holding and i don't have much confidence in aquaium sealant. thanks grace

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27505	From: Walden Nida	Date: 4/28/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

If you want to have more than one betta in a tank you should try imbellus, smargadina or mahaki. All of these will coexist somewhat peacefully in a well planted tank. The juvies will eat the younger fry however. Most of the mouth-brooders can be kept together as long as you have more males than females. If you have as many females as males you have to take the males out for a rest now and then or they will starve. I have 3 pairs of macrostoma living in a 55. It is full of driftwood and plants. I feed them live crickets as well as cichlid pellets. Wally [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27506	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: epoxy

What are you trying to glue? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grace42101 Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] epoxy I'm building a rock chiclid tank and am having trouble with the epoxy. The green putty isn't holding and i don't have much confidence in aquaium sealant. thanks grace [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27507	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: My new tank chemistry

Sunday I set up my tank and added a third of a container of Bio-spira (the refrigerated kind), and five black phantom tetras. I'm using API test kits. Yesterday evening my numbers were: Ph 7.9 to 8.0 - unchanged since I put it in. ammonia between .25 and .5 ppm The two shades of light yellow-green are hard to tell apart. nitrate 5.0 ppm Nitrite slight. Again the card isn't the easiest to read. Less than ..25 I did a one third water change and added another third of the bio-spira. I added the water gradually because of temperature difference and I'm having trouble with ph - apparently the water doesn't absorb CO2 from a bucket. Even adding more distilled water PH was still 8.6 My least happy fish - the quiet one that didn't want to eat - died. This morning I have another quiet fish that doesn't want to eat. Ph 7.8 to 7.9 (it would finally have absorbed CO2 with all that air bubbling in the tank - and the new water had a higher proportion of distilled.) Ammonia < .25 There is some ammonia, just hard to tell how much. But much less than yesterday. Nitrate 5.9 ppm Nitrite Less than .25, higher than yesterday, probably not .25. Once again the color is hard to read. Based on this I'm leaving it alone until I get home. Any suggestions? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27508	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

Tank is 10 gallons. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:42 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Sunday I set up my tank and added a third of a container of Bio-spira (the refrigerated kind), and five black phantom tetras. I'm using API test kits. Yesterday evening my numbers were: Ph 7.9 to 8.0 - unchanged since I put it in. ammonia between .25 and .5 ppm The two shades of light yellow-green are hard to tell apart. nitrate 5.0 ppm Nitrite slight. Again the card isn't the easiest to read. Less than ...25 I did a one third water change and added another third of the bio-spira. I added the water gradually because of temperature difference and I'm having trouble with ph - apparently the water doesn't absorb CO2 from a bucket. Even adding more distilled water PH was still 8.6 My least happy fish - the quiet one that didn't want to eat - died. This morning I have another quiet fish that doesn't want to eat. Ph 7.8 to 7.9 (it would finally have absorbed CO2 with all that air bubbling in the tank - and the new water had a higher proportion of distilled.) Ammonia < .25 There is some ammonia, just hard to tell how much. But much less than yesterday. Nitrate 5.9 ppm Nitrite Less than .25, higher than yesterday, probably not .25. Once again the color is hard to read. Based on this I'm leaving it alone until I get home. Any suggestions? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27509	From: jett07002	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: epoxy

I don't know what you mean by "green putty" but you have to be careful about what you are using in your tank. I would use aquarium silicone to set up a rock environment--caves, etc. And be careful to get the silicone that specifies that it can be used for aquariums. If you take the time to read the labeling, it will tell you, for instance, "Not to be used under water or for aquariums" or words to that effect. Most pet stores carry the small tube of aquarium silicone if you want it only for setting up the rocks. You don't need a lot of it. Just enough to hold the rocks in place. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "grace42101" <grace.hillis@...> wrote: > > I'm building a rock chiclid tank and am having trouble with the epoxy. > The green putty isn't holding and i don't have much confidence in > aquaium sealant. > > thanks > grace >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27510	From: Raven Mae	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

I had one male with 2 females.  There was a slight accident with the male so now my girls are by themselves.  They all got along really well with no problems I could see.  ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27511	From: jett07002	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T

I don't mean to sound uncaring. I was in Viet Nam. But I have to agree with the other members. This has nothing to do with keeping fish and that is what this site is all about. Just an aside, though; there's always two sides to a story. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > Please, could you leave out the philosophical/political commentary? I know you would have little patience with the rest of us if we began sharing our opinions as freely as you share yours. All kinds of people care for their fish, not just right-wing conservatives such as yourself. I suggest we try to keep this place politically neutral so we can focus on the animals and plants in our care. > > Thanks, > Beverly > > Peace, please! > > > --- On Mon, 4/28/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Like Google and many other silicon valley type companies, > > Mongabay suffers > > from leftist tree-huggerism in many of it's pages.... > > but heck.. I'm all for > > tree-huggers as long as they don't have titanium rods > > or plates that might > > mess up my chain saw blade. ;-) > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27512	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T

I agree our political views have nothing to do with the health and well being of our fish. Not to mention bringing things like this up only causes ill feelings and someone is bound to get offended Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "jett07002" <jett07002@...> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:17:28 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) I don't mean to sound uncaring. I was in Viet Nam. But I have to agree with the other members. This has nothing to do with keeping fish and that is what this site is all about. Just an aside, though; there's always two sides to a story. joe t --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > Please, could you leave out the philosophical/political commentary? I know you would have little patience with the rest of us if we began sharing our opinions as freely as you share yours. All kinds of people care for their fish, not just right-wing conservatives such as yourself. I suggest we try to keep this place politically neutral so we can focus on the animals and plants in our care. > > Thanks, > Beverly > > Peace, please! > > > --- On Mon, 4/28/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Like Google and many other silicon valley type companies, > > Mongabay suffers > > from leftist tree-huggerism in many of it's pages.... > > but heck.. I'm all for > > tree-huggers as long as they don't have titanium rods > > or plates that might > > mess up my chain saw blade. ;-) > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27513	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

How did you acclimate the fish? What were the stores tank water parameters compared to your own? If there were differences, which is likely, then the bigger the difference, the longer the acclimation period should be. If the store had a pH of 7.0 and yours is in the high 7's or low 8's, you should probably have done a drip acclimation or at least a very slow.. several hours.. acclimation by doing small PWC's from the stores water to yours. The symptoms you are seeing with your fish... sluggishness and then death are signs of pH shock. Why did you only add 1/3rd of the Bio-Spira... unless you bought the large size for a small tank. What are your tap water baseline parameters? See my blog for my article on establishing your tap water baseline parameters. I would post links but the links are long and yahoogroups breaks them anyhow so look on the right side for the article titles and/or label links. With such a high pH, even a little ammonia can be toxic. See the charts on this page... http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that water will absorb CO2 while in a bucket. If you were using CO2 injection, it would, but not from the actual air which is O2 rich. Most often, surface agitation will result in the water outgasing CO2 rather than ingasing it unless there was absolutely NO CO2 in the water to start with which isn't likely. Sometimes, with certain water sources, the water will have a higher CO2 level and lower pH (like some wells) but most city utilities take steps to buffer up the pH of the water since a low pH causes corrosion in the pipes. This is why it's important to know your tap water baseline and what happens to it once it's exposed to light and air after 24 and 48 hours. What is the pH of your distilled water? It's not always going to be 7.0 like one would think. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Sunday I set up my tank and added a third of a container of Bio-spira (the refrigerated kind), and five black phantom tetras. I'm using API test kits. Yesterday evening my numbers were: Ph 7.9 to 8.0 - unchanged since I put it in. ammonia between .25 and .5 ppm The two shades of light yellow-green are hard to tell apart. nitrate 5.0 ppm Nitrite slight. Again the card isn't the easiest to read. Less than ..25 I did a one third water change and added another third of the bio-spira. I added the water gradually because of temperature difference and I'm having trouble with ph - apparently the water doesn't absorb CO2 from a bucket. Even adding more distilled water PH was still 8.6 My least happy fish - the quiet one that didn't want to eat - died. This morning I have another quiet fish that doesn't want to eat. Ph 7.8 to 7.9 (it would finally have absorbed CO2 with all that air bubbling in the tank - and the new water had a higher proportion of distilled.) Ammonia < .25 There is some ammonia, just hard to tell how much. But much less than yesterday. Nitrate 5.9 ppm Nitrite Less than .25, higher than yesterday, probably not .25. Once again the color is hard to read. Based on this I'm leaving it alone until I get home. Any suggestions? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27514	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

If its a new tank my first reaction is that you didn't let it cycle long enough for the tetras. If its only a couple days old I wouldn't be doing any water changes. The signs stated are common for any kind of shock not just pH. Not to mention mention a drastic pH increase or decrease depletes their oxygen and causes thum to hang around the surface. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:27:12 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry How did you acclimate the fish? What were the stores tank water parameters compared to your own? If there were differences, which is likely, then the bigger the difference, the longer the acclimation period should be. If the store had a pH of 7.0 and yours is in the high 7's or low 8's, you should probably have done a drip acclimation or at least a very slow.. several hours.. acclimation by doing small PWC's from the stores water to yours. The symptoms you are seeing with your fish... sluggishness and then death are signs of pH shock. Why did you only add 1/3rd of the Bio-Spira... unless you bought the large size for a small tank. What are your tap water baseline parameters? See my blog for my article on establishing your tap water baseline parameters. I would post links but the links are long and yahoogroups breaks them anyhow so look on the right side for the article titles and/or label links. With such a high pH, even a little ammonia can be toxic. See the charts on this page... http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that water will absorb CO2 while in a bucket. If you were using CO2 injection, it would, but not from the actual air which is O2 rich. Most often, surface agitation will result in the water outgasing CO2 rather than ingasing it unless there was absolutely NO CO2 in the water to start with which isn't likely. Sometimes, with certain water sources, the water will have a higher CO2 level and lower pH (like some wells) but most city utilities take steps to buffer up the pH of the water since a low pH causes corrosion in the pipes. This is why it's important to know your tap water baseline and what happens to it once it's exposed to light and air after 24 and 48 hours. What is the pH of your distilled water? It's not always going to be 7.0 like one would think. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Sunday I set up my tank and added a third of a container of Bio-spira (the refrigerated kind), and five black phantom tetras. I'm using API test kits. Yesterday evening my numbers were: Ph 7.9 to 8.0 - unchanged since I put it in. ammonia between .25 and .5 ppm The two shades of light yellow-green are hard to tell apart. nitrate 5.0 ppm Nitrite slight. Again the card isn't the easiest to read. Less than ..25 I did a one third water change and added another third of the bio-spira. I added the water gradually because of temperature difference and I'm having trouble with ph - apparently the water doesn't absorb CO2 from a bucket. Even adding more distilled water PH was still 8.6 My least happy fish - the quiet one that didn't want to eat - died. This morning I have another quiet fish that doesn't want to eat. Ph 7.8 to 7.9 (it would finally have absorbed CO2 with all that air bubbling in the tank - and the new water had a higher proportion of distilled.) Ammonia < .25 There is some ammonia, just hard to tell how much. But much less than yesterday. Nitrate 5.9 ppm Nitrite Less than .25, higher than yesterday, probably not .25. Once again the color is hard to read. Based on this I'm leaving it alone until I get home. Any suggestions? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27515	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

Allie1068, I agree those symptoms are signs of other shock issues as well but since she had such a high pH, I was just pointing that out. Most people know about acclimating them to temperature but they aren't told about the other water parameters affecting the fish also... things like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness, etc. Fish get used to bad water over time, slowly as it gets bad and need to be acclimated back to good water slowly also... so unless it's an emergency contamination, it's better to do a series of 25% PWC's every couple of hours rather than one large 50% PWC to 100% change. I'm curious about your comment about pH affecting O2 levels. I haven't heard of that and I'm not sure how pH would affect O2 levels, per se. I realize that things that can affect the pH can have an effect on O2 levels but it's not the pH, per se, that affects the O2 levels... at least not from all I've learned. Can you elaborate? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry If its a new tank my first reaction is that you didn't let it cycle long enough for the tetras. If its only a couple days old I wouldn't be doing any water changes. The signs stated are common for any kind of shock not just pH. Not to mention mention a drastic pH increase or decrease depletes their oxygen and causes thum to hang around the surface. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:27:12 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry How did you acclimate the fish? What were the stores tank water parameters compared to your own? If there were differences, which is likely, then the bigger the difference, the longer the acclimation period should be. If the store had a pH of 7.0 and yours is in the high 7's or low 8's, you should probably have done a drip acclimation or at least a very slow.. several hours.. acclimation by doing small PWC's from the stores water to yours. The symptoms you are seeing with your fish... sluggishness and then death are signs of pH shock. Why did you only add 1/3rd of the Bio-Spira... unless you bought the large size for a small tank. What are your tap water baseline parameters? See my blog for my article on establishing your tap water baseline parameters. I would post links but the links are long and yahoogroups breaks them anyhow so look on the right side for the article titles and/or label links. With such a high pH, even a little ammonia can be toxic. See the charts on this page... http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that water will absorb CO2 while in a bucket. If you were using CO2 injection, it would, but not from the actual air which is O2 rich. Most often, surface agitation will result in the water outgasing CO2 rather than ingasing it unless there was absolutely NO CO2 in the water to start with which isn't likely. Sometimes, with certain water sources, the water will have a higher CO2 level and lower pH (like some wells) but most city utilities take steps to buffer up the pH of the water since a low pH causes corrosion in the pipes. This is why it's important to know your tap water baseline and what happens to it once it's exposed to light and air after 24 and 48 hours. What is the pH of your distilled water? It's not always going to be 7.0 like one would think. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Sunday I set up my tank and added a third of a container of Bio-spira (the refrigerated kind), and five black phantom tetras. I'm using API test kits. Yesterday evening my numbers were: Ph 7.9 to 8.0 - unchanged since I put it in. ammonia between .25 and .5 ppm The two shades of light yellow-green are hard to tell apart. nitrate 5.0 ppm Nitrite slight. Again the card isn't the easiest to read. Less than ..25 I did a one third water change and added another third of the bio-spira. I added the water gradually because of temperature difference and I'm having trouble with ph - apparently the water doesn't absorb CO2 from a bucket. Even adding more distilled water PH was still 8.6 My least happy fish - the quiet one that didn't want to eat - died. This morning I have another quiet fish that doesn't want to eat. Ph 7.8 to 7.9 (it would finally have absorbed CO2 with all that air bubbling in the tank - and the new water had a higher proportion of distilled.) Ammonia < .25 There is some ammonia, just hard to tell how much. But much less than yesterday. Nitrate 5.9 ppm Nitrite Less than .25, higher than yesterday, probably not .25. Once again the color is hard to read. Based on this I'm leaving it alone until I get home. Any suggestions? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27516	From: ED	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T

Correct! Let me ask "Why this forum?" Nothing brings out the thumpers like politics and religion. Which belong on sites for the thumpers. Thumper=anyone who thinks they have the only answer,IE- preachers/politicians I like fish and seek knowledge for thier keeping. Here on a site dedicated to FISH!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27517	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

Well I'm the manager at a fish store and have a 2500 gal system that I'm soley in charge of. I wasn't saying you were wrong I was just pointing out that there could be other issues. Anyways one day an associate of mine gravel vacd too many tanks forcing a 1000 gal water change bringing in water with a pH of 6.5 when mine is 8.4 from all the lime deposits in my area. The fish started to suffocate and gulping for air. I hooked up our massive air pump then the fish reverted to just showing signs of stress put pH increaser and got my levels to balance. I don't like getting info from online sources so I consulted some books I own and I will have find it agaib because it was a while ago but it mentioned about depleting their oxygen in extreem increases and decreases like that. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:50:06 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Allie1068, I agree those symptoms are signs of other shock issues as well but since she had such a high pH, I was just pointing that out. Most people know about acclimating them to temperature but they aren't told about the other water parameters affecting the fish also... things like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness, etc. Fish get used to bad water over time, slowly as it gets bad and need to be acclimated back to good water slowly also... so unless it's an emergency contamination, it's better to do a series of 25% PWC's every couple of hours rather than one large 50% PWC to 100% change. I'm curious about your comment about pH affecting O2 levels. I haven't heard of that and I'm not sure how pH would affect O2 levels, per se. I realize that things that can affect the pH can have an effect on O2 levels but it's not the pH, per se, that affects the O2 levels... at least not from all I've learned. Can you elaborate? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry If its a new tank my first reaction is that you didn't let it cycle long enough for the tetras. If its only a couple days old I wouldn't be doing any water changes. The signs stated are common for any kind of shock not just pH. Not to mention mention a drastic pH increase or decrease depletes their oxygen and causes thum to hang around the surface. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:27:12 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry How did you acclimate the fish? What were the stores tank water parameters compared to your own? If there were differences, which is likely, then the bigger the difference, the longer the acclimation period should be. If the store had a pH of 7.0 and yours is in the high 7's or low 8's, you should probably have done a drip acclimation or at least a very slow.. several hours.. acclimation by doing small PWC's from the stores water to yours. The symptoms you are seeing with your fish... sluggishness and then death are signs of pH shock. Why did you only add 1/3rd of the Bio-Spira... unless you bought the large size for a small tank. What are your tap water baseline parameters? See my blog for my article on establishing your tap water baseline parameters. I would post links but the links are long and yahoogroups breaks them anyhow so look on the right side for the article titles and/or label links. With such a high pH, even a little ammonia can be toxic. See the charts on this page... http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that water will absorb CO2 while in a bucket. If you were using CO2 injection, it would, but not from the actual air which is O2 rich. Most often, surface agitation will result in the water outgasing CO2 rather than ingasing it unless there was absolutely NO CO2 in the water to start with which isn't likely. Sometimes, with certain water sources, the water will have a higher CO2 level and lower pH (like some wells) but most city utilities take steps to buffer up the pH of the water since a low pH causes corrosion in the pipes. This is why it's important to know your tap water baseline and what happens to it once it's exposed to light and air after 24 and 48 hours. What is the pH of your distilled water? It's not always going to be 7.0 like one would think. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Sunday I set up my tank and added a third of a container of Bio-spira (the refrigerated kind), and five black phantom tetras. I'm using API test kits. Yesterday evening my numbers were: Ph 7.9 to 8.0 - unchanged since I put it in. ammonia between .25 and .5 ppm The two shades of light yellow-green are hard to tell apart. nitrate 5.0 ppm Nitrite slight. Again the card isn't the easiest to read. Less than ..25 I did a one third water change and added another third of the bio-spira. I added the water gradually because of temperature difference and I'm having trouble with ph - apparently the water doesn't absorb CO2 from a bucket. Even adding more distilled water PH was still 8.6 My least happy fish - the quiet one that didn't want to eat - died. This morning I have another quiet fish that doesn't want to eat. Ph 7.8 to 7.9 (it would finally have absorbed CO2 with all that air bubbling in the tank - and the new water had a higher proportion of distilled.) Ammonia < .25 There is some ammonia, just hard to tell how much. But much less than yesterday. Nitrate 5.9 ppm Nitrite Less than .25, higher than yesterday, probably not .25. Once again the color is hard to read. Based on this I'm leaving it alone until I get home. Any suggestions? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27518	From: Martin VanderWal	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T

Dear Ed, Please be a little more sensitive to this preacher (thumper) who very much enjoys fishkeeping as a hobby! Rev. Martin VanderWal --- On Tue, 4/29/08, ED <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > From: ED <crowstarwalker@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 10:59 AM > Correct! > > Let me ask "Why this forum?" > > Nothing brings out the thumpers like politics and religion. > Which belong on sites for the thumpers. > > Thumper=anyone who thinks they have the only answer,IE- > preachers/politicians > > I like fish and seek knowledge for thier keeping. > Here on a site dedicated to FISH! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27519	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T

Ah well. Looks like they are still bemoaning the original post. Guess our efforts to bring this post on topic have failed. Gotta admit though. That mongabay.com site with all of the native Iraqi fish makes me kinda wish they had an active fish farm industry there. There are some neat fish that I'd love to see over here in the trade. I was getting around the broken links by googling the fish species. I liked the acanthopagrus berda. Looked like fishing would be a blast there with the size of some of the game fish they have there as well. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) Mongabay is more than just an interesting little site. Aside from some of it's political leanings, it's probably the most thorough library of FW fish profiles/care sheets/biotope information, etc. on the internet. Like Google and many other silicon valley type companies, Mongabay suffers from leftist tree-huggerism in many of it's pages.... but heck.. I'm all for tree-huggers as long as they don't have titanium rods or plates that might mess up my chain saw blade. ;-) For some reason that page on Iraq fish has all of it's references linked to Fishbase profiles and there's some kind of server issue with the links. Here's a page of fish from Iraq http://www.fishbase.org/Country/CountryChecklist.php?c_code=368&vhabitat=all 2&csub_code= that came up on a Fishbase search from http://fishbase.org, another vast resource of fish information but the profiles aren't as easy to understand as the ones on Mongabay. I tested a couple of the links that came up on my search list and they worked so now this thread is on topic! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of The Dragon Hunter Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) Welp, I got curious, and decided to look. Found this interesting little site which I guess brings this back on topic. :D http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Iraq.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Iraq.htm> Unfortunatly it appears none of the links work, but its pretty easy to google the names and see the pics on other sites. -Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27520	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T

What an interesting looking fish. I was getting around the broken links by googling the fish species. I liked the acanthopagrus berda. -----Original Message----- From: The Dragon Hunter <dragon.hunter@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:51 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) Ah well. Looks like they are still bemoaning the original post. Guess our efforts to bring this post on topic have failed. Gotta admit though. That mongabay.com site with all of the native Iraqi fish makes me kinda wish they had an active fish farm industry there. There are some neat fish that I'd love to see over here in the trade. I was getting around the broken links by googling the fish species. I liked the acanthopagrus berda. Looked like fishing would be a blast there with the size of some of the game fish they have there as well. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) Mongabay is more than just an interesting little site. Aside from some of it's political leanings, it's probably the most thorough library of FW fish profiles/care sheets/biotope information, etc. on the internet. Like Google and many other silicon valley type companies, Mongabay suffers from leftist tree-huggerism in many of it's pages.... but heck.. I'm all for tree-huggers as long as they don't have titanium rods or plates that might mess up my chain saw blade. ;-) For some reason that page on Iraq fish has all of it's references linked to Fishbase profiles and there's some kind of server issue with the links. Here's a page of fish from Iraq http://www.fishbase.org/Country/CountryChecklist.php?c_code=368&vhabitat=all 2&csub_code= that came up on a Fishbase search from http://fishbase.org, another vast resource of fish information but the profiles aren't as easy to understand as the ones on Mongabay. I tested a couple of the links that came up on my search list and they worked so now this thread is on topic! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of The Dragon Hunter Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) Welp, I got curious, and decided to look. Found this interesting little site which I guess brings this back on topic. :D http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Iraq.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Iraq.htm> Unfortunatly it appears none of the links work, but its pretty easy to google the names and see the pics on other sites. -Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27521	From: Paula Brown	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Online Troll?

Sorry Dora, but you are coming a bit across as an online troll (you know, they join the lists, stir up trouble, and then finally get kicked off). I am here to learn more about fishkeeping - not to read your arguments with everybody that posts here and on the other list. From what I can tell, you asked questions and got some very knowledgable answers - can't you leave it at that? Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27522	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums!

What you wrote about babyfish was touching Sam. I wish if a well planted tank could save guppy fry, but it can't. It's a 20G community tank, with the hungriest and greedest Angelfish I have ever seen! It's a pare of white Angels but they're capable of hunting every single baby guppy. That's why I let the moms give birth in a plastic hatchery, then remove the babies to a 2G tank, with one old-fasioned filter with air pump. They seem to grow pretty fast there, then I move them back to the big tank. But I'm just hoping that ice cubes can help those babies in their mini-tank survive through the hotest days. All the best Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 3:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! > Hi Noura, > > Well I am sure you have it worse than me except for gas- > Petrol. The temps here in Chicago get up to 90 or maybe 100. > That is at an extreme but in my basement it is always cooler > below ground but I do have to fight with mid 80's still. > Yes, the Snapple plastic bottles are the same as Gatorade > and probably Coke as well. It is better if the bottles are > smooth so the ice can drift out of the container easier. Having > about 6 of them in the refrigerator to cycle through seems to be > the best. Power wise, I use UPS units on my tanks for short > outages and then a generator gets hooked up for longer outages. > My battery chargers and aquariums are the first to get hooked > in. I value all fish's lives and the small ones especially as > like children they have the longest life ahead of them. If I > can, I see that they survive. With some small plants at the > bottom of the tank- plastic, they always seem to survive well. > Even my pond outside is overpopulated. > I will let everyone know the results of my experience with > Ocean 300 model when I test it. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > N Taweel wrote: > > > > I live in the HOT middle east, Sam. > > I'm sorry, I didn't get what you mean by "snapple plastic bottle". are > > they > > soft plastic bottles? we have them here to buy coke. > > The hint of filling them with fish water is great! but I was thinking if > > it's possible to use sealed bottles, would it do the same effect? > > I never tried any of these methods before, except when I almost 'boiled' > > guppy fry to death many years ago, because the heater's thermo- was not > > functioning well, I added ice cubes to save the few fries left. > > > > All the best > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@... > > <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net>> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:45 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! > > > > > Hi Noura, > > > > > > It is hard to know what country I am dealing with by just > > > E mail address. I have used Ice cubes as well on specially > > > hot days but your frig will not keep up. Thus what I do is use > > > the larger snapple plastic 32 Oz type bottle and allow those to > > > freeze solid- several will be needed as it takes a number of > > > hours to freeze solid. I cut off the tops and scrub all the > > > labels off. Then when the container is in the tank for a few > > > minutes the 80+ degree water allows the ICE to slip out of > > > plastics and I use fish water to freeze again. What some have > > > not said that is still important is that the temperature must > > > not be changed very abruptly but should go slowly. The reason > > > I bring this up is that a lot of little ICE cubes will melt > > > faster and change temperature the same. Whereas a larger mass > > > will take longer to melt and change the temp slower. The 32C > > > is around 89 F.. to me 82 is high and I never let it get past that. > > > Use this converter- > > > http://www.themoneyalert.com/TemperatureConversionCalculator.html > > <http://www.themoneyalert.com/TemperatureConversionCalculator.html> > > > > > > Here is a complete table- > > > http://www.albireo.ch/temperatureconverter/table.htm > > <http://www.albireo.ch/temperatureconverter/table.htm> > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > > > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > > > (708)334-2260 > > > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((?> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<?((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27523	From: William J. Scott	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Online Troll?

Yay....... -------Original Message------- From: Paula Brown Date: 4/29/2008 12:40:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Online Troll? Sorry Dora, but you are coming a bit across as an online troll (you know, they join the lists, stir up trouble, and then finally get kicked off). I am here to learn more about fishkeeping - not to read your arguments with everybody that posts here and on the other list. From what I can tell, you asked questions and got some very knowledgable answers - can't you leave it at that? Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27524	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Ice cubes for cooking aquariums!

Sorry for the horrible spelling mistakes.. my mind was busy with other stuff while writing that email!! > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! > > What you wrote about babyfish was touching Sam. > I wish if a well planted tank could save guppy fry, but it can't. It's a > 20G community tank, with the hungriest and greediest Angelfish I have ever > seen! It's a pair of white Angels but they're capable of hunting every > single baby guppy. > That's why I let the moms give birth in a plastic hatchery, then remove the > babies to a 2G tank, with one old-fasioned filter with air pump. They seem > to grow pretty fast there, then I move them back to the big tank. > But I'm just hoping that ice cubes can help those babies in their mini-tank > survive through the hotest days. > > All the best > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 3:17 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! > > > > Hi Noura, > > > > Well I am sure you have it worse than me except for gas- > > Petrol. The temps here in Chicago get up to 90 or maybe 100. > > That is at an extreme but in my basement it is always cooler > > below ground but I do have to fight with mid 80's still. > > Yes, the Snapple plastic bottles are the same as Gatorade > > and probably Coke as well. It is better if the bottles are > > smooth so the ice can drift out of the container easier. Having > > about 6 of them in the refrigerator to cycle through seems to be > > the best. Power wise, I use UPS units on my tanks for short > > outages and then a generator gets hooked up for longer outages. > > My battery chargers and aquariums are the first to get hooked > > in. I value all fish's lives and the small ones especially as > > like children they have the longest life ahead of them. If I > > can, I see that they survive. With some small plants at the > > bottom of the tank- plastic, they always seem to survive well. > > Even my pond outside is overpopulated. > > I will let everyone know the results of my experience with > > Ocean 300 model when I test it. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > > (708)334-2260 > > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > > > N Taweel wrote: > > > > > > I live in the HOT middle east, Sam. > > > I'm sorry, I didn't get what you mean by "snapple plastic bottle". are > > > they > > > soft plastic bottles? we have them here to buy coke. > > > The hint of filling them with fish water is great! but I was thinking if > > > it's possible to use sealed bottles, would it do the same effect? > > > I never tried any of these methods before, except when I almost 'boiled' > > > guppy fry to death many years ago, because the heater's thermo- was not > > > functioning well, I added ice cubes to save the few fries left. > > > > > > All the best > > > Noura > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@... > > > <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net>> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:45 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ice cubes for cooking aquariums! > > > > > > > Hi Noura, > > > > > > > > It is hard to know what country I am dealing with by just > > > > E mail address. I have used Ice cubes as well on specially > > > > hot days but your frig will not keep up. Thus what I do is use > > > > the larger snapple plastic 32 Oz type bottle and allow those to > > > > freeze solid- several will be needed as it takes a number of > > > > hours to freeze solid. I cut off the tops and scrub all the > > > > labels off. Then when the container is in the tank for a few > > > > minutes the 80+ degree water allows the ICE to slip out of > > > > plastics and I use fish water to freeze again. What some have > > > > not said that is still important is that the temperature must > > > > not be changed very abruptly but should go slowly. The reason > > > > I bring this up is that a lot of little ICE cubes will melt > > > > faster and change temperature the same. Whereas a larger mass > > > > will take longer to melt and change the temp slower. The 32C > > > > is around 89 F.. to me 82 is high and I never let it get past that. > > > > Use this converter- > > > > http://www.themoneyalert.com/TemperatureConversionCalculator.html > > > <http://www.themoneyalert.com/TemperatureConversionCalculator.html> > > > > > > > > Here is a complete table- > > > > http://www.albireo.ch/temperatureconverter/table.htm > > > <http://www.albireo.ch/temperatureconverter/table.htm> > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > > > > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > > > > (708)334-2260 > > > > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((?> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<?((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((؛>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((؛> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((؛> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <؛((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<؛((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<؛((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27525	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

Are there test kits for hardness? is it necessary? do they come with the other test kit "in the same package"? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Frankly, I do not know what is available in France, but have your friend look for test kits that have the reagents marked with an expiration date. The reagents should be powdered to last longer, and if they are pre-measured, so much the better. Your basic test kits should be for pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Anything else may be a bonus, if useful to you. Arm your friend with this information, and they can shop around a bit to find kits that meet those basic qualifications to send to you. Personally, I like the Aqua-Tru test kits distributed in the US by Kordon. I do not know if they distribute to Europe or not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Hi. Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy fry. Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order any kind of spare things with the kit? Thanks for your advise Noura ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27526	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

I'm not sure how it is over there but usualy there's test kits with 5 in one. Nitrates nitrites hardness alkalinity and pH. It can be important because it can affect your alkalinity and pH Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:35:32 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Are there test kits for hardness? is it necessary? do they come with the other test kit "in the same package"? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Frankly, I do not know what is available in France, but have your friend look for test kits that have the reagents marked with an expiration date. The reagents should be powdered to last longer, and if they are pre-measured, so much the better. Your basic test kits should be for pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Anything else may be a bonus, if useful to you. Arm your friend with this information, and they can shop around a bit to find kits that meet those basic qualifications to send to you. Personally, I like the Aqua-Tru test kits distributed in the US by Kordon. I do not know if they distribute to Europe or not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Hi. Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy fry. Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order any kind of spare things with the kit? Thanks for your advise Noura ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27527	From: N Taweel	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

Excuse my unfamiliarity with Fish chemical terms, but isn't alkalinity related directly to pH? aren't they the same thing? I think that high pH "higher than 7.0" indicates alkalinity, while lower than 7.0 indicates acidity, no? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: <allie1068@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:43 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > I'm not sure how it is over there but usualy there's test kits with 5 in one. Nitrates nitrites hardness alkalinity and pH. It can be important because it can affect your alkalinity and pH > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> > > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:35:32 > To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > Are there test kits for hardness? is it necessary? do they come with the > other test kit "in the same package"? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > Frankly, I do not know what is available in France, but have your friend > look for test kits that have the reagents marked with an expiration > date. The reagents should be powdered to last longer, and if they are > pre-measured, so much the better. Your basic test kits should be for pH, > ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Anything else may be a bonus, if useful > to you. Arm your friend with this information, and they can shop around > a bit to find kits that meet those basic qualifications to send to you. > > Personally, I like the Aqua-Tru test kits distributed in the US by > Kordon. I do not know if they distribute to Europe or not. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Noura Taweel > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > Hi. > Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can > do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! > I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from > France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. > > I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I > have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy > fry. > > Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order > any kind of spare things with the kit? > > Thanks for your advise > Noura > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27528	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

No usualy higher pH is higher alkalinity. But there are some exceptions but that gets pretty advanced. But generaly they're all tied together Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:54:41 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Excuse my unfamiliarity with Fish chemical terms, but isn't alkalinity related directly to pH? aren't they the same thing? I think that high pH "higher than 7.0" indicates alkalinity, while lower than 7.0 indicates acidity, no? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: <allie1068@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:43 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > I'm not sure how it is over there but usualy there's test kits with 5 in one. Nitrates nitrites hardness alkalinity and pH. It can be important because it can affect your alkalinity and pH > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> > > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:35:32 > To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > Are there test kits for hardness? is it necessary? do they come with the > other test kit "in the same package"? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > Frankly, I do not know what is available in France, but have your friend > look for test kits that have the reagents marked with an expiration > date. The reagents should be powdered to last longer, and if they are > pre-measured, so much the better. Your basic test kits should be for pH, > ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Anything else may be a bonus, if useful > to you. Arm your friend with this information, and they can shop around > a bit to find kits that meet those basic qualifications to send to you. > > Personally, I like the Aqua-Tru test kits distributed in the US by > Kordon. I do not know if they distribute to Europe or not. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Noura Taweel > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > Hi. > Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can > do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! > I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from > France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. > > I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I > have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy > fry. > > Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order > any kind of spare things with the kit? > > Thanks for your advise > Noura > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27529	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

Most test kits also contain Ammonia as well. A very important one. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <allie1068@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > I'm not sure how it is over there but usualy there's test kits with 5 in > one. Nitrates nitrites hardness alkalinity and pH. It can be important > because it can affect your alkalinity and pH > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> > > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:35:32 > To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > Are there test kits for hardness? is it necessary? do they come with the > other test kit "in the same package"? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > Frankly, I do not know what is available in France, but have your friend > look for test kits that have the reagents marked with an expiration > date. The reagents should be powdered to last longer, and if they are > pre-measured, so much the better. Your basic test kits should be for pH, > ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Anything else may be a bonus, if useful > to you. Arm your friend with this information, and they can shop around > a bit to find kits that meet those basic qualifications to send to you. > > Personally, I like the Aqua-Tru test kits distributed in the US by > Kordon. I do not know if they distribute to Europe or not. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Noura Taweel > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > Hi. > Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can > do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! > I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from > France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. > > I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I > have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy > fry. > > Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order > any kind of spare things with the kit? > > Thanks for your advise > Noura > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1403 - Release Date: 4/29/2008 7:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27530	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

Noura, Yes! 7.0 is nutral, 6.8- acidic 7.2+ Alkaline Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > Excuse my unfamiliarity with Fish chemical terms, but isn't alkalinity > related directly to pH? aren't they the same thing? I think that high pH > "higher than 7.0" indicates alkalinity, while lower than 7.0 indicates > acidity, no? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <allie1068@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:43 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > >> I'm not sure how it is over there but usualy there's test kits with 5 in > one. Nitrates nitrites hardness alkalinity and pH. It can be important > because it can affect your alkalinity and pH >> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> >> >> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:35:32 >> To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise >> >> >> Are there test kits for hardness? is it necessary? do they come with the >> other test kit "in the same package"? >> >> Noura >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > com> >> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:27 PM >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise >> >> Frankly, I do not know what is available in France, but have your friend >> look for test kits that have the reagents marked with an expiration >> date. The reagents should be powdered to last longer, and if they are >> pre-measured, so much the better. Your basic test kits should be for pH, >> ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Anything else may be a bonus, if useful >> to you. Arm your friend with this information, and they can shop around >> a bit to find kits that meet those basic qualifications to send to you. >> >> Personally, I like the Aqua-Tru test kits distributed in the US by >> Kordon. I do not know if they distribute to Europe or not. >> >> \\Steve// >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] >> On Behalf Of Noura Taweel >> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM >> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise >> >> Hi. >> Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can >> do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! >> I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from >> France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. >> >> I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I >> have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy >> fry. >> >> Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order >> any kind of spare things with the kit? >> >> Thanks for your advise >> Noura >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. >> 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >> to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1403 - Release Date: 4/29/2008 > 7:26 AM > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27531	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

Wow I totally read that wrong!!! I feel like an idiot. I was antique shopping! ------Original Message------ From: Sissy Sathre Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ReplyTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Apr 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Noura, Yes! 7.0 is nutral, 6.8- acidic 7.2+ Alkaline Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > Excuse my unfamiliarity with Fish chemical terms, but isn't alkalinity > related directly to pH? aren't they the same thing? I think that high pH > "higher than 7.0" indicates alkalinity, while lower than 7.0 indicates > acidity, no? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <allie1068@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:43 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > >> I'm not sure how it is over there but usualy there's test kits with 5 in > one. Nitrates nitrites hardness alkalinity and pH. It can be important > because it can affect your alkalinity and pH >> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> >> >> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:35:32 >> To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise >> >> >> Are there test kits for hardness? is it necessary? do they come with the >> other test kit "in the same package"? >> >> Noura >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:s Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27532	From: JFazio	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: rainbow fish hiding

Hi All: The most active, brave, vivacious rainbowfish in my tank has been hiding behind driftwood off and on all day. When I approach, he does come out (for food, no doubt). Is that a good sign, that he's hungry? Should I withhold food in case of upset tummy or something? He looks physically okay. No fungus, ick, sores of any kind. Thanks. Jeannie Fazio The Dachshund Network Bulletin Board http://www.thedachshundnetwork.com/index.php Please Sign to "Enact the Protected Animal Law" http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/protected-animal-law.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27533	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: rainbow fish hiding

Sometimes they can get scared from getting picked on. I wouldn't with hold food but make sure your not over feeding. And the more plants and hiding places you have the more likely your fish are to be out and active Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: JFazio <jfazio@...> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:58:12 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] rainbow fish hiding Hi All: The most active, brave, vivacious rainbowfish in my tank has been hiding behind driftwood off and on all day. When I approach, he does come out (for food, no doubt). Is that a good sign, that he's hungry? Should I withhold food in case of upset tummy or something? He looks physically okay. No fungus, ick, sores of any kind. Thanks. Jeannie Fazio The Dachshund Network Bulletin Board http://www.thedachs <http://www.thedachshundnetwork.com/index.php> hundnetwork.com/index.php Please Sign to "Enact the Protected Animal Law" http://www.gopetiti <http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/protected-animal-law.html> on.com/petitions/protected-animal-law.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27534	From: JFazio	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: rainbow fish hiding

Thanks, Allie. At 08:09 PM 4/29/2008, you wrote: >Sometimes they can get scared from getting picked on. I wouldn't >with hold food but make sure your not over feeding. And the more >plants and hiding places you have the more likely your fish are to >be out and active >Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > >-----Original Message----- >From: JFazio <jfazio@...> > >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:58:12 >To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [AquaticLife] rainbow fish hiding > > >Hi All: The most active, brave, vivacious rainbowfish in my tank has >been hiding behind driftwood off and on all day. When I approach, he >does come out (for food, no doubt). Is that a good sign, that he's >hungry? Should I withhold food in case of upset tummy or something? >He looks physically okay. No fungus, ick, sores of any kind. Thanks. >Jeannie Fazio The Dachshund Network Bulletin Board >http://www.thedachs <http://www.thedachshundnetwork.com/index.php> >hundnetwork.com/index.php Please Sign to "Enact the Protected Animal >Law" http://www.gopetiti ><http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/protected-animal-law.html> >on.com/petitions/protected-animal-law.html >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27535	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: rainbow fish hiding

Your welcome! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: JFazio <jfazio@...> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:13:06 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] rainbow fish hiding Thanks, Allie. At 08:09 PM 4/29/2008, you wrote: >Sometimes they can get scared from getting picked on. I wouldn't >with hold food but make sure your not over feeding. And the more >plants and hiding places you have the more likely your fish are to >be out and active >Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > >-----Original Message----- >From: JFazio <jfazio@goldendox. <mailto:jfazio%40goldendox.com> com> > >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:58:12 >To:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com >Subject: [AquaticLife] rainbow fish hiding > > >Hi All: The most active, brave, vivacious rainbowfish in my tank has >been hiding behind driftwood off and on all day. When I approach, he >does come out (for food, no doubt). Is that a good sign, that he's >hungry? Should I withhold food in case of upset tummy or something? >He looks physically okay. No fungus, ick, sores of any kind. Thanks. >Jeannie Fazio The Dachshund Network Bulletin Board >http://www.thedachs <http://www.thedachs> <http://www.thedachs <http://www.thedachshundnetwork.com/index.php> hundnetwork.com/index.php> >hundnetwork.com/index.php Please Sign to "Enact the Protected Animal >Law" http://www.gopetiti <http://www.gopetiti> ><http://www.gopetiti <http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/protected-animal-law.html> on.com/petitions/protected-animal-law.html> >on.com/petitions/protected-animal-law.html >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27536	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: epoxy

Crazy glue is often used by Reef keepers as well as planted tank enthusiasts. -----Original Message----- From: jett07002 <jett07002@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 6:49 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: epoxy I don't know what you mean by "green putty" but you have to be careful about what you are using in your tank. I would use aquarium silicone to set up a rock environment--caves, etc. And be careful to get the silicone that specifies that it can be used for aquariums. If you take the time to read the labeling, it will tell you, for instance, "Not to be used under water or for aquariums" or words to that effect. Most pet stores carry the small tube of aquarium silicone if you want it only for setting up the rocks. You don't need a lot of it. Just enough to hold the rocks in place. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "grace42101" <grace.hillis@...> wrote: > > I'm building a rock chiclid tank and am having trouble with the epoxy. > The green putty isn't holding and i don't have much confidence in > aquaium sealant. > > thanks > grace > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27537	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

More than likely, the 6.5 pH water had an artificially low pH due to high CO2 super saturation and possibly low O2 levels which is what caused the fish to start gasping but that doesn't necessarily mean that a low pH always means low O2 or high CO2 level. A high CO2 level will lower the pH level but as the CO2 outgases, the pH level will rise to the "natural" or buffered level of whatever the water actually is supposed to be without the artificially low pH caused by the high CO2 level. It's important to aerate new tap water going into a tank by allowing it to splash before going into the tank and to keep filters running and/or air stones to allow for proper CO2 outgasing and O2 ingasing.. if needed. This splashing and continued surface agitation allows for outgasing of any excess CO2 that may be in the water coming right out of the pipe since it hasn't been exposed to oxygen from the time it left the source to the time it comes out of your pipes. When I refill my tanks (with my Python) or when I had several ponds, I would not allow the end of the hose to go under water since then the water coming out of the hose would not be splashing so it would be less likely to outgas the CO2 if there was a high level of CO2. You can see this outgasing effect when you fill a plastic milk jug with water coming out your faucet without an aerator or at a slow enough rate to where the aerator does not work. Cap the jug and after that water sits for a while, you'll see thousands of tiny bubbles attached to the inside of the plastic jug. The same thing will happen to the inside of a tank when the "new" water is not splashed or aerated before going into the tank. I was just trying to find a more detailed article explaining this but the site that explained it in more scientific detail escapes me. I hope my layman's explanation helps. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Well I'm the manager at a fish store and have a 2500 gal system that I'm soley in charge of. I wasn't saying you were wrong I was just pointing out that there could be other issues. Anyways one day an associate of mine gravel vacd too many tanks forcing a 1000 gal water change bringing in water with a pH of 6.5 when mine is 8.4 from all the lime deposits in my area. The fish started to suffocate and gulping for air. I hooked up our massive air pump then the fish reverted to just showing signs of stress put pH increaser and got my levels to balance. I don't like getting info from online sources so I consulted some books I own and I will have find it agaib because it was a while ago but it mentioned about depleting their oxygen in extreem increases and decreases like that. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:50:06 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Allie1068, I agree those symptoms are signs of other shock issues as well but since she had such a high pH, I was just pointing that out. Most people know about acclimating them to temperature but they aren't told about the other water parameters affecting the fish also... things like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness, etc. Fish get used to bad water over time, slowly as it gets bad and need to be acclimated back to good water slowly also... so unless it's an emergency contamination, it's better to do a series of 25% PWC's every couple of hours rather than one large 50% PWC to 100% change. I'm curious about your comment about pH affecting O2 levels. I haven't heard of that and I'm not sure how pH would affect O2 levels, per se. I realize that things that can affect the pH can have an effect on O2 levels but it's not the pH, per se, that affects the O2 levels... at least not from all I've learned. Can you elaborate? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of allie1068@... <mailto:allie1068%40yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry If its a new tank my first reaction is that you didn't let it cycle long enough for the tetras. If its only a couple days old I wouldn't be doing any water changes. The signs stated are common for any kind of shock not just pH. Not to mention mention a drastic pH increase or decrease depletes their oxygen and causes thum to hang around the surface. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:27:12 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry How did you acclimate the fish? What were the stores tank water parameters compared to your own? If there were differences, which is likely, then the bigger the difference, the longer the acclimation period should be. If the store had a pH of 7.0 and yours is in the high 7's or low 8's, you should probably have done a drip acclimation or at least a very slow.. several hours.. acclimation by doing small PWC's from the stores water to yours. The symptoms you are seeing with your fish... sluggishness and then death are signs of pH shock. Why did you only add 1/3rd of the Bio-Spira... unless you bought the large size for a small tank. What are your tap water baseline parameters? See my blog for my article on establishing your tap water baseline parameters. I would post links but the links are long and yahoogroups breaks them anyhow so look on the right side for the article titles and/or label links. With such a high pH, even a little ammonia can be toxic. See the charts on this page... http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> > I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that water will absorb CO2 while in a bucket. If you were using CO2 injection, it would, but not from the actual air which is O2 rich. Most often, surface agitation will result in the water outgasing CO2 rather than ingasing it unless there was absolutely NO CO2 in the water to start with which isn't likely. Sometimes, with certain water sources, the water will have a higher CO2 level and lower pH (like some wells) but most city utilities take steps to buffer up the pH of the water since a low pH causes corrosion in the pipes. This is why it's important to know your tap water baseline and what happens to it once it's exposed to light and air after 24 and 48 hours. What is the pH of your distilled water? It's not always going to be 7.0 like one would think. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Sunday I set up my tank and added a third of a container of Bio-spira (the refrigerated kind), and five black phantom tetras. I'm using API test kits. Yesterday evening my numbers were: Ph 7.9 to 8.0 - unchanged since I put it in. ammonia between .25 and .5 ppm The two shades of light yellow-green are hard to tell apart. nitrate 5.0 ppm Nitrite slight. Again the card isn't the easiest to read. Less than ..25 I did a one third water change and added another third of the bio-spira. I added the water gradually because of temperature difference and I'm having trouble with ph - apparently the water doesn't absorb CO2 from a bucket. Even adding more distilled water PH was still 8.6 My least happy fish - the quiet one that didn't want to eat - died. This morning I have another quiet fish that doesn't want to eat. Ph 7.8 to 7.9 (it would finally have absorbed CO2 with all that air bubbling in the tank - and the new water had a higher proportion of distilled.) Ammonia < .25 There is some ammonia, just hard to tell how much. But much less than yesterday. Nitrate 5.9 ppm Nitrite Less than .25, higher than yesterday, probably not .25. Once again the color is hard to read. Based on this I'm leaving it alone until I get home. Any suggestions? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27538	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF T

Steve, I'm not sure if the "other" news channels showed it, but Fox News showed the First Annual Iraqi Fishing Rodeo that our military was having about a week ago. It seems that Saddam Hussein diverted large amounts of water into private built lakes on his many palace compounds and had them stocked with game fish and their was a grass-roots effort to send fishing poles, etc. to Iraq so our service men and women could do a little fishing for some R & R. It was cool to see them carrying their rifles over their shoulders while casting and catching fish. It would probably have been easier to just toss a grenade in the water and net the floaters. Now that's fishing!!! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of The Dragon Hunter Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) Ah well. Looks like they are still bemoaning the original post. Guess our efforts to bring this post on topic have failed. Gotta admit though. That mongabay.com site with all of the native Iraqi fish makes me kinda wish they had an active fish farm industry there. There are some neat fish that I'd love to see over here in the trade. I was getting around the broken links by googling the fish species. I liked the acanthopagrus berda. Looked like fishing would be a blast there with the size of some of the game fish they have there as well. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) Mongabay is more than just an interesting little site. Aside from some of it's political leanings, it's probably the most thorough library of FW fish profiles/care sheets/biotope information, etc. on the internet. Like Google and many other silicon valley type companies, Mongabay suffers from leftist tree-huggerism in many of it's pages.... but heck.. I'm all for tree-huggers as long as they don't have titanium rods or plates that might mess up my chain saw blade. ;-) For some reason that page on Iraq fish has all of it's references linked to Fishbase profiles and there's some kind of server issue with the links. Here's a page of fish from Iraq http://www.fishbase.org/Country/CountryChecklist.php?c_code=368&vhabitat=all <http://www.fishbase.org/Country/CountryChecklist.php?c_code=368&vhabitat=al l> 2&csub_code= that came up on a Fishbase search from http://fishbase.org, <http://fishbase.org,> another vast resource of fish information but the profiles aren't as easy to understand as the ones on Mongabay. I tested a couple of the links that came up on my search list and they worked so now this thread is on topic! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of The Dragon Hunter Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) Welp, I got curious, and decided to look. Found this interesting little site which I guess brings this back on topic. :D http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Iraq.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Iraq.htm> <http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Iraq.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Iraq.htm> > Unfortunatly it appears none of the links work, but its pretty easy to google the names and see the pics on other sites. -Steve No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27539	From: James	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

Really the problem is not that 2 females and 1 male gets along that is very possible. 2 males on the other hand you have a fight. Everything I read on Bettas 98% of the time it really does not matter how big the tank is they will fight. James YourFishTankGuru <http://yourfishtankguru.com/> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Raven Mae <thee_raven2006@...> wrote: > > I had one male with 2 females. There was a slight accident with the male so now my girls are by themselves. They all got along really well with no problems I could see. > > > ________________________________________________________________________\ ____________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27540	From: busymom_88	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Goldfish question-disease?

I have a 900 gallon pond with about a dozen goldfish. Recently two of the dark colored fish have developed gray, not white, patches. The gray areas are slightly raised, and is covering the eye on one fish. Both fish are swimming fine and eating. Fins look fine. Does anybody else know what this is? All the other fish look great. Thanks for any help you can provide. Jessie in Oregon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27541	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

Yes there are also basic tests for GH (general hardness.. also called alkalinity) and KH (carbonate hardness). I bought a master test kit from Tetra-Laborette a few years ago which had 7 or 8 tests, including the above two... and it was very accurate but the bottles of reagent were kind of small so the test kit didn't last long when testing several tanks but for one tank, the kit would probably last a year or so. Knowing the KH, pH and temperature, there is a chart that will give you a general idea of your CO2 level also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Are there test kits for hardness? is it necessary? do they come with the other test kit "in the same package"? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Frankly, I do not know what is available in France, but have your friend look for test kits that have the reagents marked with an expiration date. The reagents should be powdered to last longer, and if they are pre-measured, so much the better. Your basic test kits should be for pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Anything else may be a bonus, if useful to you. Arm your friend with this information, and they can shop around a bit to find kits that meet those basic qualifications to send to you. Personally, I like the Aqua-Tru test kits distributed in the US by Kordon. I do not know if they distribute to Europe or not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Noura Taweel Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Hi. Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy fry. Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order any kind of spare things with the kit? Thanks for your advise Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27542	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

That's why I use GH or General Hardness instead of alkalinity... since alkaline and acid are the terms used to indicate pH levels above and below 7.0 (which is neutral). I think even better terms would be acid or base. The dip stick tests usually has alkalinity used instead of hardness which can be confusing but usually they have "(hardness)" next to alkalinity to help clarify what it means. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Excuse my unfamiliarity with Fish chemical terms, but isn't alkalinity related directly to pH? aren't they the same thing? I think that high pH "higher than 7.0" indicates alkalinity, while lower than 7.0 indicates acidity, no? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: <allie1068@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:43 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > I'm not sure how it is over there but usualy there's test kits with 5 in one. Nitrates nitrites hardness alkalinity and pH. It can be important because it can affect your alkalinity and pH > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> > > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:35:32 > To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > Are there test kits for hardness? is it necessary? do they come with the > other test kit "in the same package"? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > Frankly, I do not know what is available in France, but have your friend > look for test kits that have the reagents marked with an expiration > date. The reagents should be powdered to last longer, and if they are > pre-measured, so much the better. Your basic test kits should be for pH, > ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Anything else may be a bonus, if useful > to you. Arm your friend with this information, and they can shop around > a bit to find kits that meet those basic qualifications to send to you. > > Personally, I like the Aqua-Tru test kits distributed in the US by > Kordon. I do not know if they distribute to Europe or not. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Noura Taweel > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > Hi. > Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can > do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! > I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from > France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. > > I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I > have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy > fry. > > Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order > any kind of spare things with the kit? > > Thanks for your advise > Noura > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27543	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question-disease?

Jessie, Sorry I have no real succesful pond experience. I do know that colors on goldfish can change but gray is usually not one of them. I had some Goldfish with interesting black barring and the black totally went away with time. Check out KoiVet.com I think the Doctor may have some pictures you can use to compare. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: busymom_88 <ladygardener1388@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 1:52 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish question-disease? I have a 900 gallon pond with about a dozen goldfish. Recently two of the dark colored fish have developed gray, not white, patches. The gray areas are slightly raised, and is covering the eye on one fish. Both fish are swimming fine and eating. Fins look fine. Does anybody else know what this is? All the other fish look great. Thanks for any help you can provide. Jessie in Oregon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27544	From: good2shoes95	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: new meber

i am brenda know as goingood95 i have four fish at this time

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27545	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question-disease?

What kind of goldfish and how old? I've seen a lot of pond fish develope tumors when they get older. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "busymom_88" <ladygardener1388@...> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:52:07 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish question-disease? I have a 900 gallon pond with about a dozen goldfish. Recently two of the dark colored fish have developed gray, not white, patches. The gray areas are slightly raised, and is covering the eye on one fish. Both fish are swimming fine and eating. Fins look fine. Does anybody else know what this is? All the other fish look great. Thanks for any help you can provide. Jessie in Oregon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27546	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

Higher pH is usually, mistakenly, referred to as alkaline. The correct term is base. Alkalinity can, but does not necessarily affect pH. However, alkalinity can tell you a bit about how much buffering capacity the water has. If you want a more scientific explanation, remind me closer to the weekend. It is after 10 PM here and I still have a ton of stuff to accomplish before I can hit the hay. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise Excuse my unfamiliarity with Fish chemical terms, but isn't alkalinity related directly to pH? aren't they the same thing? I think that high pH "higher than 7.0" indicates alkalinity, while lower than 7.0 indicates acidity, no? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: <allie1068@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:43 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > I'm not sure how it is over there but usualy there's test kits with 5 in one. Nitrates nitrites hardness alkalinity and pH. It can be important because it can affect your alkalinity and pH > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> > > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:35:32 > To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > Are there test kits for hardness? is it necessary? do they come with the > other test kit "in the same package"? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > Frankly, I do not know what is available in France, but have your friend > look for test kits that have the reagents marked with an expiration > date. The reagents should be powdered to last longer, and if they are > pre-measured, so much the better. Your basic test kits should be for pH, > ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Anything else may be a bonus, if useful > to you. Arm your friend with this information, and they can shop around > a bit to find kits that meet those basic qualifications to send to you. > > Personally, I like the Aqua-Tru test kits distributed in the US by > Kordon. I do not know if they distribute to Europe or not. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Noura Taweel > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > Hi. > Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can > do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! > I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from > France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. > > I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I > have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy > fry. > > Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order > any kind of spare things with the kit? > > Thanks for your advise > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27547	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

And that's the beauty of fish keeping we can agree to disagree. I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong I just don't agree that is the case all the time. Crap happens and I don't think anyone knows everything about this art. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:05:27 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry More than likely, the 6.5 pH water had an artificially low pH due to high CO2 super saturation and possibly low O2 levels which is what caused the fish to start gasping but that doesn't necessarily mean that a low pH always means low O2 or high CO2 level. A high CO2 level will lower the pH level but as the CO2 outgases, the pH level will rise to the "natural" or buffered level of whatever the water actually is supposed to be without the artificially low pH caused by the high CO2 level. It's important to aerate new tap water going into a tank by allowing it to splash before going into the tank and to keep filters running and/or air stones to allow for proper CO2 outgasing and O2 ingasing.. if needed. This splashing and continued surface agitation allows for outgasing of any excess CO2 that may be in the water coming right out of the pipe since it hasn't been exposed to oxygen from the time it left the source to the time it comes out of your pipes. When I refill my tanks (with my Python) or when I had several ponds, I would not allow the end of the hose to go under water since then the water coming out of the hose would not be splashing so it would be less likely to outgas the CO2 if there was a high level of CO2. You can see this outgasing effect when you fill a plastic milk jug with water coming out your faucet without an aerator or at a slow enough rate to where the aerator does not work. Cap the jug and after that water sits for a while, you'll see thousands of tiny bubbles attached to the inside of the plastic jug. The same thing will happen to the inside of a tank when the "new" water is not splashed or aerated before going into the tank. I was just trying to find a more detailed article explaining this but the site that explained it in more scientific detail escapes me. I hope my layman's explanation helps. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Well I'm the manager at a fish store and have a 2500 gal system that I'm soley in charge of. I wasn't saying you were wrong I was just pointing out that there could be other issues. Anyways one day an associate of mine gravel vacd too many tanks forcing a 1000 gal water change bringing in water with a pH of 6.5 when mine is 8.4 from all the lime deposits in my area. The fish started to suffocate and gulping for air. I hooked up our massive air pump then the fish reverted to just showing signs of stress put pH increaser and got my levels to balance. I don't like getting info from online sources so I consulted some books I own and I will have find it agaib because it was a while ago but it mentioned about depleting their oxygen in extreem increases and decreases like that. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:50:06 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Allie1068, I agree those symptoms are signs of other shock issues as well but since she had such a high pH, I was just pointing that out. Most people know about acclimating them to temperature but they aren't told about the other water parameters affecting the fish also... things like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness, etc. Fish get used to bad water over time, slowly as it gets bad and need to be acclimated back to good water slowly also... so unless it's an emergency contamination, it's better to do a series of 25% PWC's every couple of hours rather than one large 50% PWC to 100% change. I'm curious about your comment about pH affecting O2 levels. I haven't heard of that and I'm not sure how pH would affect O2 levels, per se. I realize that things that can affect the pH can have an effect on O2 levels but it's not the pH, per se, that affects the O2 levels... at least not from all I've learned. Can you elaborate? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of allie1068@... <mailto:allie1068%40yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry If its a new tank my first reaction is that you didn't let it cycle long enough for the tetras. If its only a couple days old I wouldn't be doing any water changes. The signs stated are common for any kind of shock not just pH. Not to mention mention a drastic pH increase or decrease depletes their oxygen and causes thum to hang around the surface. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:27:12 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry How did you acclimate the fish? What were the stores tank water parameters compared to your own? If there were differences, which is likely, then the bigger the difference, the longer the acclimation period should be. If the store had a pH of 7.0 and yours is in the high 7's or low 8's, you should probably have done a drip acclimation or at least a very slow.. several hours.. acclimation by doing small PWC's from the stores water to yours. The symptoms you are seeing with your fish... sluggishness and then death are signs of pH shock. Why did you only add 1/3rd of the Bio-Spira... unless you bought the large size for a small tank. What are your tap water baseline parameters? See my blog for my article on establishing your tap water baseline parameters. I would post links but the links are long and yahoogroups breaks them anyhow so look on the right side for the article titles and/or label links. With such a high pH, even a little ammonia can be toxic. See the charts on this page... http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> > I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that water will absorb CO2 while in a bucket. If you were using CO2 injection, it would, but not from the actual air which is O2 rich. Most often, surface agitation will result in the water outgasing CO2 rather than ingasing it unless there was absolutely NO CO2 in the water to start with which isn't likely. Sometimes, with certain water sources, the water will have a higher CO2 level and lower pH (like some wells) but most city utilities take steps to buffer up the pH of the water since a low pH causes corrosion in the pipes. This is why it's important to know your tap water baseline and what happens to it once it's exposed to light and air after 24 and 48 hours. What is the pH of your distilled water? It's not always going to be 7.0 like one would think. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Sunday I set up my tank and added a third of a container of Bio-spira (the refrigerated kind), and five black phantom tetras. I'm using API test kits. Yesterday evening my numbers were: Ph 7.9 to 8.0 - unchanged since I put it in. ammonia between .25 and .5 ppm The two shades of light yellow-green are hard to tell apart. nitrate 5.0 ppm Nitrite slight. Again the card isn't the easiest to read. Less than ..25 I did a one third water change and added another third of the bio-spira. I added the water gradually because of temperature difference and I'm having trouble with ph - apparently the water doesn't absorb CO2 from a bucket. Even adding more distilled water PH was still 8.6 My least happy fish - the quiet one that didn't want to eat - died. This morning I have another quiet fish that doesn't want to eat. Ph 7.8 to 7.9 (it would finally have absorbed CO2 with all that air bubbling in the tank - and the new water had a higher proportion of distilled.) Ammonia < .25 There is some ammonia, just hard to tell how much. But much less than yesterday. Nitrate 5.9 ppm Nitrite Less than .25, higher than yesterday, probably not .25. Once again the color is hard to read. Based on this I'm leaving it alone until I get home. Any suggestions? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27548	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Question

Agreed! Seen it happen too many times! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "James" <jim_d72@...> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:12:34 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Betta Question Really the problem is not that 2 females and 1 male gets along that is very possible. 2 males on the other hand you have a fight. Everything I read on Bettas 98% of the time it really does not matter how big the tank is they will fight. James YourFishTankGuru <http://yourfishtank <http://yourfishtankguru.com/> guru.com/> --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Raven Mae <thee_raven2006@...> wrote: > > I had one male with 2 females. There was a slight accident with the male so now my girls are by themselves. They all got along really well with no problems I could see. > > > __________________________________________________________\ ____________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27549	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: new meber

Welcome! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "good2shoes95" <goingood95@...> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:58:34 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new meber i am brenda know as goingood95 i have four fish at this time

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27552	From: mathhaven	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

Hi Lenny, Thanks for the info. I didn't feel ignored at all - I don't get a chance to check as often as I'd like to, and I appreciate your expertise. My intuition told me they wouldn't be the best additions to Raini's tank (which is why I didn't follow the many sources that said they were compatible), but I'm glad to have some information to back it up. The MongaBay site was excellent - I've bookmarked it as one of my primary fish sources (along with GoldLenny.blogspot). When you (or anyone else reading) have a chance (again, no rush), I'd like any advice you have on what I should (or shouldn't) add to her tank. It's a 29 gallon, moderatetely planted, with a biowheel filter. The water is soft, and the Ph is about 6.4, and I do a five gallon water change (17%) weekly. We've got 4 Diamonds, 3 Serpaes, and 4 Cherry Barbs currently. By my calculations using the 1"/G rule (yours, not the fishkilling one, as their adult sizes are 2.5", 2" and 2"), the tank is understocked, but only slightly. It seems my choices are: 1. Leave it as it is, slightly understocked (24/29ths), without full schools. 2. Fill each of the schools to six, making it overstocked (39/29ths), and step up the water changes to twice a week. 3. Bring one species to a full school (but which one?) to a full school, and leave the other two species as they are. There may be a fourth option I haven't thought of, but unfortunately it is not getting a bigger tank, as that would be too expensive (not the tank itself, but the divorce my wife promised if I get any more tanks). Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi again Chris, > > Sorry, but I put this in my ToDo folder and I'm just now getting around to > looking through it so I'm several days late in replying. I didn't mean to > "ignore" your reply. > > 1) While molly's and some tetras may be compatible, you can't cover it with > a blanket statement since there are species of tetras from all over the > world. > > Here are the profiles on the two you mentioned. > Serpae Tetra (aka Jewel Tetra) > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html > and the Diamond Tetra > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html and while they > both like similar water parameters (lower pH and softer water), molly's are > not listed in the SC section (Suggested Companions) because molly's, like > most livebearers, prefer harder water with a higher pH and the addition of > some salt http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm (scroll half way down). > > I wouldn't mix the two species for long term success. > > 2) It's best to have full schools of fish that prefer to be in schools but > I have seen intra-species schooling from fish in the same family like your > tetras. If you have sufficient room to handle the bioload, it would be > better to give them each their own school. > > As you will see from the above profiles, http://fish.mongabay.com has some > of the best fish care profiles on the internet and also include a reference > section on each one so you can read up quite a bit on your fish. It's a > good place to start when gathering initial information on a potential or new > fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris McCarthy > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Lenny - > Thanks for the quick response! The message you're thinking of wasn't from me > - I just joined about three weeks ago, and this was my first post. I do get > the compiled digest of e-mails once a day - I thought that included all of > the posts, but maybe I did miss some. > > After reading your message and before writing back, I looked through older > messages (but not all 27,000), and didn't see anything similar. There was a > recent one from a fellow asking about the number of tetras for an 8 gallon, > and some older ones asking about salt as a curative, but nothing that really > addressed what I am looking to learn about. There did seem to be a number of > members who keep mollies and tetras together, but I couldn't find any > reference to how much salt (if any) is used. My wife has a ten gallon with > four mollies, and keeps three tablespoons of salt in it, and they're doing > well. My daughter would like some in her tank, but I want to hear from some > more experienced folk before making any decisions. > > Thanks again! > > - Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:55 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Chris, > > Didn't we go over this recently.. in the past several weeks? It sure seems > familiar. Maybe you missed the replies due to spam filtering or something > or maybe I'm just morphing it into another fish keepers questions. If so, I > apologize, I just didn't want to start all over if there is a pre-existing > thread about your situation. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of mathhaven > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > About two months ago, I moved my daughter's tetras (3 serpae & 4 diamond) > from an overcrowded 10 gallon to a used 29 gallon I bought. The transition > went well, and our three dwarf frogs are enjoying the old ten gallon. Last > month I got her four cherry barbs, and they've fit in quite nicely, and get > along well with the tetras. I'm considering getting her some mollies (2 > females and a male), but I have some questions first... > 1. Nearly all my research says that mollies and tetras are compatible, but > it also says that mollies like some salt, and tetras do not like any. It > seems like either could tolerate the other's salinity, but would be stressed > by doing so. If anyone keeps these two together, how much salt per gallon do > you add? > 2. So far, all our fish seem happy and compatible. Feeding time is a frenzy, > but a peaceful one. My research has also led me to believe that I should > have six of each type (which would overstock the 29 gallon even without any > tetras). The serpaes sometimes swim with the diamonds, sometimes just on > their own (the cherry barbs usually just do their own thing). > Am I stressing them by not having a full school of each? Are there certain > behaviors I should look for before making any more stocking decisions? I'm > not in any particular rush. > Thanks for any advise. > - Chris > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 > 3:01 PM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 > 2:31 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27554	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2008
Subject: Keep on topic, no more politics

Ok, We need to herd ourselves back on topic for the good of the group. I know for a fact there are political yahoogroups out there for those that wish to contniue with that topic. Even those groups fracture and implode from time to time. Let's not have that happen here! -Mike (who rather likes being a passive Moderator) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27559	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

Can't help with the pH woes, but make the temperature exactly the same as the tank water when doing a water change. (I run the tap over the tank thermometer and adjust until I get a match.) One less potential problem. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Sunday I set up my tank and added a third of a container of Bio-spira (the refrigerated kind), and five black phantom tetras. I'm using API test kits. Yesterday evening my numbers were: Ph 7.9 to 8.0 - unchanged since I put it in. ammonia between .25 and .5 ppm The two shades of light yellow-green are hard to tell apart. nitrate 5.0 ppm Nitrite slight. Again the card isn't the easiest to read. Less than ..25 I did a one third water change and added another third of the bio-spira. I added the water gradually because of temperature difference and I'm having trouble with ph - apparently the water doesn't absorb CO2 from a bucket. Even adding more distilled water PH was still 8.6 My least happy fish - the quiet one that didn't want to eat - died. This morning I have another quiet fish that doesn't want to eat. Ph 7.8 to 7.9 (it would finally have absorbed CO2 with all that air bubbling in the tank - and the new water had a higher proportion of distilled.) Ammonia < .25 There is some ammonia, just hard to tell how much. But much less than yesterday. Nitrate 5.9 ppm Nitrite Less than .25, higher than yesterday, probably not .25. Once again the color is hard to read. Based on this I'm leaving it alone until I get home. Any suggestions? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27560	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

Noura, With reading your questions/remarks here, I find only two replies which actually touched on the facts constituting an answer, with one somewhat comprehensive. In simply (if its possible) and directly addressing this topic, the answer is "NO"; "alkalinity" is NOT directly related to pH. The long-term misconception of this has derived from associating a higher pH as being "alkaline." Water of a state as having a pH above neutral (7.0), while referred to as alkaline, is more correctly known as "base" (or basic) as opposed to being acid (or acidic). In actuality, "alkalinity" is a measure of the buffering capacity of the water in terms of its content of elements/minerals (or compounds/salts of), which will sustain a given water body's pH at a certain level in the presence of acid inducing influences of up to equal proportions tending to alter (lower) the pH. These measurements are expressed in PPM (parts per million) or Degrees of Hardness (17.5 ppm = 1 dH) in carbonates and/or sulphates of water- hardening elements, most notably calcium, magnesium and boron salts. In this way, alkalinity (buffering capacity) is indirectly connected to pH, since in general the higher the buffering capacity of the water, the greater the propensity for maintaining a certain pH without its being influenced by acids, thus stabilizing it. Therefore, high alkalinity is generally associated with "alkaline" (basic) water of a pH above 7.0, as these buffering salts tend to make the water basic, but can still be associated with soft water usually when there are relatively little acids present. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > Excuse my unfamiliarity with Fish chemical terms, but isn't alkalinity > related directly to pH? aren't they the same thing? I think that high pH > "higher than 7.0" indicates alkalinity, while lower than 7.0 indicates > acidity, no? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <allie1068@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:43 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > > I'm not sure how it is over there but usualy there's test kits with 5 in > one. Nitrates nitrites hardness alkalinity and pH. It can be important > because it can affect your alkalinity and pH > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> > > > > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:35:32 > > To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > > > > Are there test kits for hardness? is it necessary? do they come with the > > other test kit "in the same package"? > > > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo.com> > com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > > Frankly, I do not know what is available in France, but have your friend > > look for test kits that have the reagents marked with an expiration > > date. The reagents should be powdered to last longer, and if they are > > pre-measured, so much the better. Your basic test kits should be for pH, > > ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Anything else may be a bonus, if useful > > to you. Arm your friend with this information, and they can shop around > > a bit to find kits that meet those basic qualifications to send to you. > > > > Personally, I like the Aqua-Tru test kits distributed in the US by > > Kordon. I do not know if they distribute to Europe or not. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Noura Taweel > > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > > Hi. > > Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that I can > > do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! > > I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one from > > France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about fish. > > > > I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater Tanks. I > > have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for goupy > > fry. > > > > Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I order > > any kind of spare things with the kit? > > > > Thanks for your advise > > Noura > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<: ((((><74/`7.88. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27562	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

In re-reading my post, which I should have done so more thoroughly before sending, I found a typo which is necessary for me to correct, in understanding its content. The last sentence of this paragraph should have read; Therefore, high alkalinity is generally associated with "alkaline" (basic) water of a pH above 7.0, as these buffering salts tend to make the water basic, but can still be associated with ACID water usually when there are relatively little acids present. I had meant to refer to this water as "acid" rather than soft, but just didn't have my first cup of coffee yet (LOL); sorry 'bout that! Acid water can also have a comparatively strong alkalinity (buffering) capacity generally when, although still being acid, these acid inducing elements are of a relatively low content to that of the buffering salts present in the water, i.e., water can be hard and acid even though soft water is usually associated with being acidic. By this it can be seen that acid water can be referred to as having a high "alkalinity", or buffering capacity, and is not being referred to as the pH of the water. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > In this way, alkalinity (buffering capacity) is indirectly connected > to pH, since in general the higher the buffering capacity of the > water, the greater the propensity for maintaining a certain pH > without its being influenced by acids, thus stabilizing it. > Therefore, high alkalinity is generally associated with "alkaline" > (basic) water of a pH above 7.0, as these buffering salts tend to > make the water basic, but can still be associated with soft water > usually when there are relatively little acids present. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@> wrote: > > > > > > Excuse my unfamiliarity with Fish chemical terms, but isn't > alkalinity > > related directly to pH? aren't they the same thing? I think that > high pH > > "higher than 7.0" indicates alkalinity, while lower than 7.0 > indicates > > acidity, no? > > > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <allie1068@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:43 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > > > > > I'm not sure how it is over there but usualy there's test kits > with 5 in > > one. Nitrates nitrites hardness alkalinity and pH. It can be > important > > because it can affect your alkalinity and pH > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@> > > > > > > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:35:32 > > > To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > > > > > > > Are there test kits for hardness? is it necessary? do they come > with the > > > other test kit "in the same package"? > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve% > 40familyszabo.com> > > com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:27 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > > > > Frankly, I do not know what is available in France, but have > your friend > > > look for test kits that have the reagents marked with an > expiration > > > date. The reagents should be powdered to last longer, and if > they are > > > pre-measured, so much the better. Your basic test kits should be > for pH, > > > ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Anything else may be a bonus, if > useful > > > to you. Arm your friend with this information, and they can shop > around > > > a bit to find kits that meet those basic qualifications to send > to you. > > > > > > Personally, I like the Aqua-Tru test kits distributed in the US > by > > > Kordon. I do not know if they distribute to Europe or not. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Noura Taweel > > > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:49 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Members in France: Test Kit Advise > > > > > > Hi. > > > Here's the situation: I live in Middle East, all the tests that > I can > > > do to my aquariums is.. Temperature! > > > I couldn't find any test kits here till now. But I can order one > from > > > France "my friend lives there", but he has null knowledge about > fish. > > > > > > I need your advise to choose a brand and model for Freshwater > Tanks. I > > > have a 20G community tank with live plants, and a 2G tank for > goupy > > > fry. > > > > > > Hope there's a decent kit with reasonable price. and should I > order > > > any kind of spare things with the kit? > > > > > > Thanks for your advise > > > Noura > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank > > You. > > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> > 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important > > to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<: > ((((><74/`7.88. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27565	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

Come again with that procedure? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:46 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Can't help with the pH woes, but make the temperature exactly the same as the tank water when doing a water change. (I run the tap over the tank thermometer and adjust until I get a match.) One less potential problem. _____ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27566	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

In general, liquid test kits are found to be more accurate even if sometimes they may take some getting used to at first. The best way to determine the exact color is to hold a piece of white cardboard behind the testing vial. After a while, however, you will easily be able to tell the color shades by holding it up to the light, once you get used to it, and you'll then see the unlimited gradients of color shades the tests are capable of -- more precisely pinpointing the true reading. With BioSpira, I believe the usual procedure in using it is to add it and wait a full day before adding fish. Even so, this should have not caused elevations of your ammonia and nitrites. You can expect an elevation in your nitrates, showing you that the ammonia and nitrite is being converted, especially if you have no established live plants using this yet. With nitrates present this soon, it does appear that the BioSpira is functional although possibly weakened for reasons undetermined as of yet. I haven't seen a reference as to a filter for these bacteria to colonize, but have to assume you've employed one unless I hear otherwise. For optimum establishment of the bacteria, a filter would be necessary even though they will convert lesser amounts of ammonia and nitrite while in the water column and on the aquarium surfaces (substrate, glass panels, etc.). Generally, nitrite is much more toxic than ammonia, although as the pH increases the toxicity of ammonia becomes more acute. At this point in time, all's you can do to keep these waste products at a mimimum is to make PWC's until the nitrogen-converting bacteria take hold (even though you're removing a portion of them still found in the water column, with each water change). As has already been suggested, your fish may have died as a result of "pH shock", usually associated with osmotic shock if the TDS (total dissolved solids) of your water were much different from that of the fishes' source (pet shop water). Your high pH tend to indicate a high alkalinity as they're often associated with each other, even if not necessarily so. The off-gassing of CO2, if that noticeable that its seen as tiny bubbles coating the aquarium surfaces, is not in the best interest of the fish either as these gases tend to be released to all surfaces, when super-saturated under pressure of your delivery system and then released, including the surfaces of your fishes' gills. I'm not sure what you mean by "water absorbing CO2 from a bucket," although if your water was pH 7.9 and it increased to pH 8.6 when adding distilled water, I'd be suspect of that distilled water. With that high of a pH, did you properly acclimate (adjust) the fish to your pH from that of the store's pH? If not, I'd say this is where your problem lies as far as the fish deaths go. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Sunday I set up my tank and added a third of a container of Bio- spira (the refrigerated kind), and five black phantom tetras. > > I'm using API test kits. > > Yesterday evening my numbers were: > > Ph 7.9 to 8.0 - unchanged since I put it in. > ammonia between .25 and .5 ppm The two shades of light yellow- green are hard to tell apart. > nitrate 5.0 ppm > Nitrite slight. Again the card isn't the easiest to read. Less than ..25 > > I did a one third water change and added another third of the bio- spira. I added the water gradually because of temperature difference and I'm having trouble with ph - apparently the water doesn't absorb CO2 from a bucket. Even adding more distilled water PH was still 8.6 > > My least happy fish - the quiet one that didn't want to eat - died. > > This morning I have another quiet fish that doesn't want to eat. > > Ph 7.8 to 7.9 (it would finally have absorbed CO2 with all that air bubbling in the tank - and the new water had a higher proportion of distilled.) > > Ammonia < .25 There is some ammonia, just hard to tell how much. But much less than yesterday. > Nitrate 5.9 ppm > Nitrite Less than .25, higher than yesterday, probably not .25. Once again the color is hard to read. > > Based on this I'm leaving it alone until I get home. > > Any suggestions? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ---------- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27567	From: busymom_88	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question-disease?

thanks I will check out that site. Jessie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Jessie, > > > > Sorry I have no real succesful pond experience. I do know that colors on goldfish can change but gray is usually not one of them. I had some Goldfish with interesting black barring and the black totally went away with time. > > > > Check out KoiVet.com I think the Doctor may have some pictures you can use to compare. > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: busymom_88 <ladygardener1388@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 1:52 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish question-disease? > > > > > > > > I have a 900 gallon pond with about a dozen goldfish. Recently two of > the dark colored fish have developed gray, not white, patches. The > gray areas are slightly raised, and is covering the eye on one fish. > Both fish are swimming fine and eating. Fins look fine. Does anybody > else know what this is? All the other fish look great. Thanks for any > help you can provide. > > Jessie in Oregon > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27568	From: iowakoi	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: How many plants do I need in my pond?

Here are some basic guidelines for the number of plants to use in common sizes of ponds. In a 4'x6' pond use 1 lily, 5-8 bog plants, 3 floaters, 24 submerged plants. A 6'x11' to 11'x11' pond use 2 lilies, 9-13 bog plants, 6 floaters, 44 submerged plants. For 11'x11' to 14'x16' ponds use 3 lilies, 10-15 bogs, 8 floaters, 90 submerged plants. A 16'x10' to 16'x21' pond uses 5 lilies, 13-18 bog plants, 12 floaters, 160 submerged plants. 21'x21' to 26'x 26' 7 lilies, 20-28 bog plants, 15 floaters, 200 submerged plants. There are even more plant tips on the plants page of Http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com <http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com> . Does anyone have suggestion on how many plants to use in a veggie filter? Any ideas on nontraditional plants to use in or around a pond? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27569	From: harry perry	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: stupidity and insensitivity! /Lenny

It would probably have been easier to just toss a grenade in the water and net the floaters. Now that's fishing!!! LOL Bite your tongue. Harry "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Steve, I'm not sure if the "other" news channels showed it, but Fox News showed the First Annual Iraqi Fishing Rodeo that our military was having about a week ago. It seems that Saddam Hussein diverted large amounts of water into private built lakes on his many palace compounds and had them stocked with game fish and their was a grass-roots effort to send fishing poles, etc. to Iraq so our service men and women could do a little fishing for some R & R. It was cool to see them carrying their rifles over their shoulders while casting and catching fish. It would probably have been easier to just toss a grenade in the water and net the floaters. Now that's fishing!!! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of The Dragon Hunter Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) Ah well. Looks like they are still bemoaning the original post. Guess our efforts to bring this post on topic have failed. Gotta admit though. That mongabay.com site with all of the native Iraqi fish makes me kinda wish they had an active fish farm industry there. There are some neat fish that I'd love to see over here in the trade. I was getting around the broken links by googling the fish species. I liked the acanthopagrus berda. Looked like fishing would be a blast there with the size of some of the game fish they have there as well. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) Mongabay is more than just an interesting little site. Aside from some of it's political leanings, it's probably the most thorough library of FW fish profiles/care sheets/biotope information, etc. on the internet. Like Google and many other silicon valley type companies, Mongabay suffers from leftist tree-huggerism in many of it's pages.... but heck.. I'm all for tree-huggers as long as they don't have titanium rods or plates that might mess up my chain saw blade. ;-) For some reason that page on Iraq fish has all of it's references linked to Fishbase profiles and there's some kind of server issue with the links. Here's a page of fish from Iraq http://www.fishbase.org/Country/CountryChecklist.php?c_code=368&vhabitat=all l> 2&csub_code= that came up on a Fishbase search from http://fishbase.org, another vast resource of fish information but the profiles aren't as easy to understand as the ones on Mongabay. I tested a couple of the links that came up on my search list and they worked so now this thread is on topic! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of The Dragon Hunter Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] This has to be the height of stupidity and insensitivity! (OFF TOPIC) Welp, I got curious, and decided to look. Found this interesting little site which I guess brings this back on topic. :D http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Iraq.htm > Unfortunatly it appears none of the links work, but its pretty easy to google the names and see the pics on other sites. -Steve No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27570	From: busymom_88	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Goldfish disease continued

Allie asked what kind of goldfish & how old? These are simple feeder fish, one was put in the pond last September, the other one more recently. So they are both less than a year old. I hope somebody knows what this is-black goldfish turning gray is a new one on me! They are not noticeably swollen, I had to really look to determine that the gray was slightly raised past the surrounding scales. The fish act like they feel fine, they just look funny.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27571	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

When putting fresh water in your tank, first mix the hot and cold from the tap to the correct temperature by running the water over the tank thermometer. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Come again with that procedure? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:46 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Can't help with the pH woes, but make the temperature exactly the same as the tank water when doing a water change. (I run the tap over the tank thermometer and adjust until I get a match.) One less potential problem. _____ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27572	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish disease continued

Can you get picks? It sounds like fungus. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: busymom_88 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:04 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish disease continued Allie asked what kind of goldfish & how old? These are simple feeder fish, one was put in the pond last September, the other one more recently. So they are both less than a year old. I hope somebody knows what this is-black goldfish turning gray is a new one on me! They are not noticeably swollen, I had to really look to determine that the gray was slightly raised past the surrounding scales. The fish act like they feel fine, they just look funny. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1407 - Release Date: 4/30/2008 11:35 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27573	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

Using water from a hot water heater is a not recommended by some Aquarius. Hot water heaters use copper pipes and build up other heavy metals such as lead ,and if it's an old hot water heater, it can leach toxic amounts Zinc into the water. Instead use the micro wave or an old fashion kettle to heat the water, pour into a five gallon bucket mixed to match your aquariums temperature, then add it to the tank. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry When putting fresh water in your tank, first mix the hot and cold from the tap to the correct temperature by running the water over the tank thermometer. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Come again with that procedure? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:46 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Can't help with the pH woes, but make the temperature exactly the same as the tank water when doing a water change. (I run the tap over the tank thermometer and adjust until I get a match.) One less potential problem. _____ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1407 - Release Date: 4/30/2008 11:35 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27575	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: My new tank chemistry

It's not just hot water heaters that use copper pipes. Many homes use copper pipes for the water supply throughout the home... whether cold or hot water lines, so if you see copper pipes coming out the walls to connect to the hot water heater, more than likely your entire home has copper pipes... BUT... yes, there's always a "But"... If you live in an area with "hard water" and the home or copper pipes are not brand new, you usually will not have a problem with the water ever coming into contact with the copper, the lead solder joints, etc., since hard water will leave a buildup on the insides of the pipes. This has been scientifically shown in lead poison related lawsuits down here in New Orleans. I'm in the construction industry and I've seen it first hand when cutting out the old copper pipes and the inside diameter of the pipe is severely reduced in many cases due to the mineral/calcium buildup. If you live in an area with high pH (above 7.0) water flowing through your pipes... do a tap/source water baseline test to know this... then the pipes would be far less likely to leach any heavy metals into the water. If you live in an area with low pH (below 7.0) water flowing through your pipes, then the pipes would be more likely to leach heavy metals into the water since low pH also means acidic. It's why most public utilities add buffers to the water supply to raise the pH so the water does not corrode the public pipes while flowing through them from the water plant. Using a simple dechlor product that also treats heavy metals will usually counteract any heavy metals introduced by the water source but if you fear that your water does have a higher heavy metal content, your local public utility or county agent will usually have a free or very low cost way to get it tested. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Using water from a hot water heater is a not recommended by some Aquarius. Hot water heaters use copper pipes and build up other heavy metals such as lead ,and if it's an old hot water heater, it can leach toxic amounts Zinc into the water. Instead use the micro wave or an old fashion kettle to heat the water, pour into a five gallon bucket mixed to match your aquariums temperature, then add it to the tank. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry When putting fresh water in your tank, first mix the hot and cold from the tap to the correct temperature by running the water over the tank thermometer. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Come again with that procedure? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:46 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My new tank chemistry Can't help with the pH woes, but make the temperature exactly the same as the tank water when doing a water change. (I run the tap over the tank thermometer and adjust until I get a match.) One less potential problem. _ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1404 - Release Date: 4/29/2008 6:27 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27576	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: bad turtle probs

> From: jason horyak > saw you guys writin about turtles and decided to ask: > my turtle looks as though he has eye infections and cannot > open his eyes due to sloughing skin. I added a dr turttle > sulfur treatment but doesnt seem to be working any ideas? Jason, I had a turtle as a kid which was over 35+ years ago. I do recall my turtle having some eye issues. We treated it with a solution of boric acid/water. Unfortunately I have no recall as to how much the boric was diluted with water. If I remember correctly we treated his eyes 2 or 3 times a day (dripping it over them.) It seemed to work, but that was a long, long, long time ago ... Jim E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27577	From: aaron102272	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Dead Ghost Shrimp turning Pink

Anybody know why the otherwise see through/clear "ghost" feeder shrimp turn pink when they die?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27578	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Ghost Shrimp turning Pink

God's way of letting you know which ones are dead. ;-) Almost all living things change colors when they die. I'm not sure why but it probably has something to do with the O2 levels in the blood being depleted and then the flesh starting to change due to not having blood pumped to it, and then the flesh starts to putrefy and eventually decompose, etc., etc.... mmmmm.. I'm getting hungry now... anyone else ready to eat dinner now? Maybe some shrimp on the barby! This article explains what happens to us humans... it's probably similar for the little ghost shrimp. http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rigor-Mortis-and-Other-Postmortem-Change s.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aaron102272 Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead Ghost Shrimp turning Pink Anybody know why the otherwise see through/clear "ghost" feeder shrimp turn pink when they die? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7 - Release Date: 4/30/2008 12:00 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7 - Release Date: 4/30/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27579	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/1/2008
Subject: Question about cycling, bifluran and biowheel

I don't know if my cycling is halfway under control or not. Several people on one of these lists advised me to keep my pH and temperature even when making water changes - have obtained second air pump setup, heater and thermometer and am doing much better with happier fish. pH in my tank is steadily rising, ammonia and nitrites hovering around toxic levels, fish won't eat, and one of them has a fuzzy white patch on its lip. I believe that is columnaris (which goes by six names and two kingdoms). After researching how to treat it and what's most available in the local pet stores I got BiFuran, which says it's a double acting antibiotic good for all bacterial and protozoan diseases. I have a concern about how to best use it with my biofilter, which plainly is still growing. Columnaris must be treated for 10 days. If I took out the biofilter for that long it the ammonia levels in my tank would go through the roof, and wouldn't the biofilter die. Now, the fish store did urge on me a filter pad that removes ammonia, still wondering if it's the best thing and don't want to use it WITH the biofilter. If I remove all the ammonia in my tank for 10 days the bacteria will die anyway. One of the fish store people did suggest just let the process alone and let the fish die. Hmm. But the columnaris would still be there for the next fish. Also the directions on the BiBuran bottle make no sense. It says to change the water completely before adding a dose, then change the water completely EACH day before adding a new dose, for 7 days. I shared my reaction to that with the fish store people and their reaction was even more vehement than mine; just change it 1/3 each day. So, does that mean I add a third of a dose of BiFuran, or a full dose? What is more, I do a smaller water change each morning, and it's got the toxin levels more even and the fish considerably happier, and I've stopped coming home at night to another dead fish. So don't add any BiFluran when I do that? I wondered if I could monitor the friendly bacteria with my good micoroscopes. Have photos of nitrobacter and nitrosomas in one of my nitrogen cycle articles. Look quite distinctive - up close. Not under 1000 x basic highschool/ college microscope, LOL. I saw a bunch of oval-round bacteria, some plant debris probably from the fish food, and not many rods which is probably a good thing. Our water from tap pH 8.4 (8.8 before aerating) 7.9 after adding 1/5 distilled KH 5.0 4.0 after adding distilled water GH 8/0 6.0 after adding distilled water Aquarium - 10 gallon, set up Sunday, 1/3 container of biospira, 5 black phantom tetras Monday 4/28 PM one fish dead, four left. Fish quiet, huddling in corner, one fish seems ill and won't eat pH 7.9 - 8.0 ammonia .25 - .5 ppm nitrate 5.0 ppm nitrite slight ph replacement water 8.6 (1/3 replaced), 1/3 of biospira Tues 4/29 AM ph 7.8 7.9 ammonia < .25 nitrate 5.0 ppm nitrite <= .25 Tues 4/29 PM ammonia .25 nitrate 5.0 - 10.0 nitrite .25 - .50 another fish dead - three left. Two of the others nibble a little food but lose interest. Wed 4/30 AM pH 7.9 - 8.0 ammonia .25 - .5 nitrate 5.0 - 10.0 nitrite .25 1/6 water change Wed PM pH 7.8 ammonia .25 - .50 nitrate 5.0 - 6.0 nitrite .5 1/3 water change, rest of biospira, 4 capfuls of Cycle - 2 of them in the filter tank. One fish has white cottony stuff on lip, none will eat, otherwise seem happier Thurs AM 1/6 water change Thurs 5/1 PM pH 7.4 ammonia .5+ nitrates 5.0 nitrites .5- 1/3 water change Added 2 tbsps aquarium salt Microscope oval-round bacteria esp in filter compartment One fish still has white cottony stuff on lip, swimming normally, won't eat Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27580	From: Larry Nave	Date: 5/2/2008
Subject: Veggie Filter

I am thinking about turning my wife's 1/2 barrel pump water feature into a plant filter for my aquarium on the PATIO...it has indirect(frosted) overhead sky lights...what plants would be best to put into it?...I am thinking about plumbing it into my 50 gallon tank like a wet/dry arrangement to take out nitrates out of the water and give more water volume(similar to our pond) Any ideas? Larry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27581	From: hessam abdi	Date: 5/2/2008
Subject: Re: Veggie Filter

hi theare you should siphoning water of botom.and adding water afther that.light is very harmfull for your tank. Larry Nave <l.nave@...> wrote: I am thinking about turning my wife's 1/2 barrel pump water feature into a plant filter for my aquarium on the PATIO...it has indirect(frosted) overhead sky lights...what plants would be best to put into it?...I am thinking about plumbing it into my 50 gallon tank like a wet/dry arrangement to take out nitrates out of the water and give more water volume(similar to our pond) Any ideas? Larry --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27582	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/2/2008
Subject: Re: Veggie Filter

Why off the bottom and why would light be harmful to any tank? Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hessam abdi Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Veggie Filter hi theare you should siphoning water of botom.and adding water afther that.light is very harmfull for your tank. Larry Nave <l.nave@comcast. <mailto:l.nave%40comcast.net> net> wrote: I am thinking about turning my wife's 1/2 barrel pump water feature into a plant filter for my aquarium on the PATIO...it has indirect(frosted) overhead sky lights...what plants would be best to put into it?...I am thinking about plumbing it into my 50 gallon tank like a wet/dry arrangement to take out nitrates out of the water and give more water volume(similar to our pond) Any ideas? Larry --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27583	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/2/2008
Subject: Re: Veggie Filter

That sounds like a pretty neat idea. Is this an enclosed area or does it just have a roof over it? Where are you located--temperature can make a difference if your are is open to the outside. You'll also need to decide whether you want immersed or emersed plants, or both. I think Hessam is worried about the old adage of not placing a tank in a window or where sunlight can light it. If a tank is not properly managed, this is most certainly true, but I have seen more tanks in situations like that in good condition than those that are overrun with algae. The removal of water from the bottom is probably a reference to vacuuming the gravel, a good practice, except in heavily planted tanks, where one must be more gentle so as not to disturb the roots of the plants. But back to the tub. Are you planning on using it as a biological filter, or just as a scrubber + sump? That will also have some bearing on how you set it up as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Nave Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Veggie Filter I am thinking about turning my wife's 1/2 barrel pump water feature into a plant filter for my aquarium on the PATIO...it has indirect(frosted) overhead sky lights...what plants would be best to put into it?...I am thinking about plumbing it into my 50 gallon tank like a wet/dry arrangement to take out nitrates out of the water and give more water volume(similar to our pond) Any ideas? Larry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27584	From: red_sasha_home	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re; Parasites

Hi, I have a 55gl tank and seem to have parasites that no one knows what they are and nothing is taking care of them, seen pics of parasites but none match. Can anyone help me? They look like tiny worms of different lengths, with no hooks, clear as glass, fish seem fine, but towards night all around the top of the tank these things come out of the water thats when you can see them. Have used several different treatments and none are working, affraid that to many are stressing the fish.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27585	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: loaches

Hi All, I am really confused now. I found a store that will take the clown loach that I got for the snails. I went to get some kuhli loaches from them in the process. The "guru" fish lady there told me that no loach will eat these snails and that I'll just have to keep pulling them out manually. What? The profiles I read and the advice I got here all said they will eat snails. She said they won't eat the kind that I have. I don't know. I bought some kuhli loaches anyway because they are interesting and I'll have the credit from the clown loach. Is this lady just not up with things or are there really some snails that the loaches just don't like? These are the common pointy type snails. I appreciate any help... Thanks, Traci Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27586	From: amb112	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Hey there! Im a new member

Well my name is Anna and I have been a fishoholic for four years. I thought it would be nice to chat with some fellow fish-lovers and discuss issues, like what to do with my fish populations which seem to be growing exponentially. I have a fairly modest collection of fish compared to what I have had in the past but I currently have a 20 with a very prolific pair of buffalo heads and ~50 of thier offspring (yeah...currently looking for a grow out tank for those). A 50 with a variety of cichlids. A 10 with about 20 red hump eartheater babies. Also, a 20 with a pair of L. similis and about 20 or so fry. A 5 gallon with teeny dwarf rainbow fry. Last, but not least Loki my betta in a 2.5 gallon. What else? Im a poor college student who spends all her money on her animals. What else is there to know :) So hi all, I look forward to talking with you! Anna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27587	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches

Hi Traci, If you have Malaysian Trumpet snails then she is correct. Their shells are thick and hard to break. Some aquarists choose to keep them. I am not one of them. -Mike _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-rimmed_melania_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-rimmed_melania) In a message dated 5/3/2008 12:57:22 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, t-swatek@... writes: Is this lady just not up with things or are there really some snails that the loaches just don't like? These are the common pointy type snails. I appreciate any help... Thanks, Traci **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27588	From: dapi_editor	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: African Butterfly Fish

I've been lurking for quite some time and decided to come out of lurk mode to ask a few questions about the surface dwelling African Butterfly Fish. I have 4, what appears to be 3 females and 1 male. They eagerly eat mealworms, FD shrimp and frozen brine shrimp. I7m looking for any information on breeding these fish.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27589	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Parasites

A parasite would be found living on a fish or other organism. What you are describing sounds like they are not parasites, but some sort of worm. From your description, I cannot say what they might be, as I am not familiar with one that will regularly come out of the water as you describe. Do you see them in the tank? If so, where do they seem to be living? I would suspect that they are living in your tank, feeding on excess food that may be available Normally, most fish would eat most worm like critters, but there are exceptions. If they are not eating them, they may well be satisfied with your feeding, or they may be found as distasteful to the fish. Since they seem to be regularly coming out of the water, you could use a tissue or paper towel to wipe them off the glass to remove them from the tank, and dispose of them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of red_sasha_home Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re; Parasites Hi, I have a 55gl tank and seem to have parasites that no one knows what they are and nothing is taking care of them, seen pics of parasites but none match. Can anyone help me? They look like tiny worms of different lengths, with no hooks, clear as glass, fish seem fine, but towards night all around the top of the tank these things come out of the water thats when you can see them. Have used several different treatments and none are working, affraid that to many are stressing the fish.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27590	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches

Hi Traci, While I don't know what kind of snails you have, I don't believe that while Kuhli ("Coolie") Loaches are in the same Family as Clown Loaches, that they are any better at ridding your tank of snails than are Spotted Weatherfish or Japanese Weather Loaches - both of which are not known to eat snails. Its the members of the Genus Botia of this Family that are notorious for eating snails, and then not all of them are equally inclined to do so. As Mike points out, Malaysian Trumpet snails are, for the most part, impervious to attack mainly because of their extremely tough shells. If this is what you have, your pet shop guru is correct if she's referring to them. On the other hand, from your somewhat vague description, similarly shaped common pond snails are another possibility of what you have, and are fair game for Clown Loaches. Since your Clowns haven't made a dent in your snails' population, I'm tending to think you probably do have these Malaysian Trumpets, which will have to be removed manually. You can try sinking (with a small stone) a piece of lettuce overnight to gather as many of them as you can, and repeat this each night until you get rid of them. You'll still need to kewp an eye out for any stranglers. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Swatek-Rice, Traci" <t- swatek@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am really confused now. I found a store that will take the clown loach that I > got for the snails. I went to get some kuhli loaches from them in the process. > The "guru" fish lady there told me that no loach will eat these snails and that > I'll just have to keep pulling them out manually. What? The profiles I read and > the advice I got here all said they will eat snails. She said they won't eat the > kind that I have. I don't know. I bought some kuhli loaches anyway because > they are interesting and I'll have the credit from the clown loach. Is this lady > just not up with things or are there really some snails that the loaches just > don't like? These are the common pointy type snails. I appreciate any help... > > Thanks, > Traci > > Traci Swatek-Rice > Hazmat Technician > DMOS5 manufacturing > Texas Instruments > <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27591	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches

Speaking of snails, I live in central Texas. Home of the Snail, the Cockroach, the Junebug, and 30 foot tall poison ivy trees. I left one of my fish tank buckets out one night, and found a big snail in it. And I'd better clean up the gravel I set out to dry a week ago. I did keep it from sitting around moist; dried the towel and then pu tit all back and so forth - probably snails or snail eggs in it with everything else. Of course it'll be washed well again before I ever use it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 7:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: loaches Hi Traci, While I don't know what kind of snails you have, I don't believe that while Kuhli ("Coolie") Loaches are in the same Family as Clown Loaches, that they are any better at ridding your tank of snails than are Spotted Weatherfish or Japanese Weather Loaches - both of which are not known to eat snails. Its the members of the Genus Botia of this Family that are notorious for eating snails, and then not all of them are equally inclined to do so. As Mike points out, Malaysian Trumpet snails are, for the most part, impervious to attack mainly because of their extremely tough shells. If this is what you have, your pet shop guru is correct if she's referring to them. On the other hand, from your somewhat vague description, similarly shaped common pond snails are another possibility of what you have, and are fair game for Clown Loaches. Since your Clowns haven't made a dent in your snails' population, I'm tending to think you probably do have these Malaysian Trumpets, which will have to be removed manually. You can try sinking (with a small stone) a piece of lettuce overnight to gather as many of them as you can, and repeat this each night until you get rid of them. You'll still need to kewp an eye out for any stranglers. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Swatek-Rice, Traci" <t- swatek@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am really confused now. I found a store that will take the clown loach that I > got for the snails. I went to get some kuhli loaches from them in the process. > The "guru" fish lady there told me that no loach will eat these snails and that > I'll just have to keep pulling them out manually. What? The profiles I read and > the advice I got here all said they will eat snails. She said they won't eat the > kind that I have. I don't know. I bought some kuhli loaches anyway because > they are interesting and I'll have the credit from the clown loach. Is this lady > just not up with things or are there really some snails that the loaches just > don't like? These are the common pointy type snails. I appreciate any help... > > Thanks, > Traci > > Traci Swatek-Rice > Hazmat Technician > DMOS5 manufacturing > Texas Instruments > <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27592	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Parasites

Any chance of taking electronic snapshots of these beasties and posting them? Lotsa wormlike thingies - including a bacteria. What are these wormlike things doing - floating around, or one end clings to the glass? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: red_sasha_home To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re; Parasites Hi, I have a 55gl tank and seem to have parasites that no one knows what they are and nothing is taking care of them, seen pics of parasites but none match. Can anyone help me? They look like tiny worms of different lengths, with no hooks, clear as glass, fish seem fine, but towards night all around the top of the tank these things come out of the water thats when you can see them. Have used several different treatments and none are working, affraid that to many are stressing the fish. ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27593	From: Wendie	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches

Kuhli's won't bother the snails at all. The bigger guys might. I use my Kuhli tank to breed snails for the loaches to eat as a snack. Somehow, they got in that tank so I just leave them alone and about every two months net up some as a snack for the clowns and other loaches. . ----- Original Message ----- From: Swatek-Rice, Traci To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 12:14 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] loaches Hi All, I am really confused now. I found a store that will take the clown loach that I got for the snails. I went to get some kuhli loaches from them in the process. The "guru" fish lady there told me that no loach will eat these snails and that I'll just have to keep pulling them out manually. What? The profiles I read and the advice I got here all said they will eat snails. She said they won't eat the kind that I have. I don't know. I bought some kuhli loaches anyway because they are interesting and I'll have the credit from the clown loach. Is this lady just not up with things or are there really some snails that the loaches just don't like? These are the common pointy type snails. I appreciate any help... Thanks, Traci Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

I definitely wouldn't advise overstocking the tank. Most 29G's are tall tanks based on a 20G footprint so they have the same surface area as the smaller 20G tank so they are better off being under stocked anyhow. You didn't say whether any of the tetras are schooling with each other right now... are they? Oops... I just re-read your original post and you said the Serpae's and Diamond's sometimes school together. If the fish are schooling or at least semi-schooling, that helps relieve any stress issues related to schooling fish not being in schools. Often times, even schooling fish will not school when they feel completely comfortable in their environment. Do not do this often but sometimes a tap on the glass will startle them and they'll get into schooling formation as their instincts tell them to do. If they do this, then you may be OK with the 1/2 schools of those two and then fill out the Cherry Barbs. The other thing to think about is whether it is worth it to risk introducing a new pathogen into your tank simply to try and fill out a school completely. Do you have a separate tank to use as a Q-tank? Your other option would be to check with an LFS to see if they'd let you trade in one of your partial schools if you agreed to buy the fish you need to fill out the other schools. With this option, you could go up to seven of each of the 2" tetras giving you bigger schools and some leeway of still having 5 or 6 fish schools as any of the fish die off. Last but not least, you could get rid of the wife. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mathhaven Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank Hi Lenny, Thanks for the info. I didn't feel ignored at all - I don't get a chance to check as often as I'd like to, and I appreciate your expertise. My intuition told me they wouldn't be the best additions to Raini's tank (which is why I didn't follow the many sources that said they were compatible), but I'm glad to have some information to back it up. The MongaBay site was excellent - I've bookmarked it as one of my primary fish sources (along with GoldLenny.blogspot). When you (or anyone else reading) have a chance (again, no rush), I'd like any advice you have on what I should (or shouldn't) add to her tank. It's a 29 gallon, moderatetely planted, with a biowheel filter. The water is soft, and the Ph is about 6.4, and I do a five gallon water change (17%) weekly. We've got 4 Diamonds, 3 Serpaes, and 4 Cherry Barbs currently. By my calculations using the 1"/G rule (yours, not the fishkilling one, as their adult sizes are 2.5", 2" and 2"), the tank is understocked, but only slightly. It seems my choices are: 1. Leave it as it is, slightly understocked (24/29ths), without full schools. 2. Fill each of the schools to six, making it overstocked (39/29ths), and step up the water changes to twice a week. 3. Bring one species to a full school (but which one?) to a full school, and leave the other two species as they are. There may be a fourth option I haven't thought of, but unfortunately it is not getting a bigger tank, as that would be too expensive (not the tank itself, but the divorce my wife promised if I get any more tanks). Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi again Chris, > > Sorry, but I put this in my ToDo folder and I'm just now getting > around to looking through it so I'm several days late in replying. I > didn't mean to "ignore" your reply. > > 1) While molly's and some tetras may be compatible, you can't cover it > with a blanket statement since there are species of tetras from all > over the world. > > Here are the profiles on the two you mentioned. > Serpae Tetra (aka Jewel Tetra) > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html> > and the Diamond Tetra > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html> and > while they both like similar water parameters (lower pH and softer > water), molly's are not listed in the SC section (Suggested > Companions) because molly's, like most livebearers, prefer harder water with a higher pH and the addition of some salt http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> (scroll half way down). > > I wouldn't mix the two species for long term success. > > 2) It's best to have full schools of fish that prefer to be in schools > but I have seen intra-species schooling from fish in the same family > like your tetras. If you have sufficient room to handle the bioload, > it would be better to give them each their own school. > > As you will see from the above profiles, http://fish.mongabay.com > <http://fish.mongabay.com> has some of the best fish care profiles on > the internet and also include a reference section on each one so you > can read up quite a bit on your fish. It's a good place to start when > gathering initial information on a potential or new fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris McCarthy > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Lenny - > Thanks for the quick response! The message you're thinking of wasn't > from me > - I just joined about three weeks ago, and this was my first post. I > do get the compiled digest of e-mails once a day - I thought that > included all of the posts, but maybe I did miss some. > > After reading your message and before writing back, I looked through > older messages (but not all 27,000), and didn't see anything similar. > There was a recent one from a fellow asking about the number of tetras > for an 8 gallon, and some older ones asking about salt as a curative, > but nothing that really addressed what I am looking to learn about. > There did seem to be a number of members who keep mollies and tetras > together, but I couldn't find any reference to how much salt (if any) > is used. My wife has a ten gallon with four mollies, and keeps three > tablespoons of salt in it, and they're doing well. My daughter would > like some in her tank, but I want to hear from some more experienced folk before making any decisions. > > Thanks again! > > - Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:55 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Chris, > > Didn't we go over this recently.. in the past several weeks? It sure > seems familiar. Maybe you missed the replies due to spam filtering or > something or maybe I'm just morphing it into another fish keepers > questions. If so, I apologize, I just didn't want to start all over if > there is a pre-existing thread about your situation. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of mathhaven > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > About two months ago, I moved my daughter's tetras (3 serpae & 4 > diamond) from an overcrowded 10 gallon to a used 29 gallon I bought. > The transition went well, and our three dwarf frogs are enjoying the > old ten gallon. Last month I got her four cherry barbs, and they've > fit in quite nicely, and get along well with the tetras. I'm > considering getting her some mollies (2 females and a male), but I have some questions first... > 1. Nearly all my research says that mollies and tetras are compatible, > but it also says that mollies like some salt, and tetras do not like > any. It seems like either could tolerate the other's salinity, but > would be stressed by doing so. If anyone keeps these two together, how > much salt per gallon do you add? > 2. So far, all our fish seem happy and compatible. Feeding time is a > frenzy, but a peaceful one. My research has also led me to believe > that I should have six of each type (which would overstock the 29 > gallon even without any tetras). The serpaes sometimes swim with the > diamonds, sometimes just on their own (the cherry barbs usually just do their own thing). > Am I stressing them by not having a full school of each? Are there > certain behaviors I should look for before making any more stocking > decisions? I'm not in any particular rush. > Thanks for any advise. > - Chris > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish disease continued

Busymom, You mention "black goldfish turning gray" but you first said they were simple feeder goldfish. Usually, feeder goldfish are simple gold common goldfish babies. If you had a black one, which is very possible due to all of the mixed up genetics in goldfish due to inter-breeding of them to get the fancy traits. Even the fancy Black Moor goldfish will often turn gray and eventually gold over time except in the rare case where they have really good genetics. You also mention that the gray is slightly raised past the scales so I'm not sure if it's just coloration changing or if it could be a fungus. But usually, a fungus is clear that it's a furry/fuzzy fungus and not just a color change. Take a better look, even netting the fish to get a better look if necessary so we will know whether we are dealing with a fungus or simply a very common color changing that happens with "colored" goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of busymom_88 Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish disease continued Allie asked what kind of goldfish & how old? These are simple feeder fish, one was put in the pond last September, the other one more recently. So they are both less than a year old. I hope somebody knows what this is-black goldfish turning gray is a new one on me! They are not noticeably swollen, I had to really look to determine that the gray was slightly raised past the surrounding scales. The fish act like they feel fine, they just look funny. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Parasites

If they are not attaching to your fish and only come out at night, they are probably planaria or some other type of worm that thrives in the substrate when there is too much detritus in the substrate. The planaria I've seen and have in my cherry shrimp tank are not clear but rather an off-white color but the baby ones could look clear since they are so thin. If they are planaria, they are not harmful to your fish but they do indicate that you need to increase your substrate vacuuming when you do your weekly PWC's (partial water changes). Are you vacuuming your substrate now? What kind of substrate do you have? What size tank and what kind of fish and how many? Is the tank planted with live plants? What kind of filtration are you using? Last but not least, in the future DO NOT use meds or chemicals on your tank(s) until you know or are reasonably certain what kind of issue you are having. I've seen people do more harm by throwing chemicals/meds at a perceived problem than the problem may be causing in the first place. When you aren't sure and are waiting for good information, you can start a salt treatment which will help with many common bacteria/parasites without doing too much harm to the fish... until you have better information of exactly what might be going wrong. I have section on my blog about Fish Disease and there is an entire section on using Salt so read over the pros/cons of using salt. Some folks use it all the time where I and many others think it should only be used when needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of red_sasha_home Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 9:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re; Parasites Hi, I have a 55gl tank and seem to have parasites that no one knows what they are and nothing is taking care of them, seen pics of parasites but none match. Can anyone help me? They look like tiny worms of different lengths, with no hooks, clear as glass, fish seem fine, but towards night all around the top of the tank these things come out of the water thats when you can see them. Have used several different treatments and none are working, affraid that to many are stressing the fish. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches

Look online at photos of MTS - Malaysian Trumpet Snails. If you have MTS, then they have very hard shells but loaches usually suck the snails out of the shell so it would seem they could still go after the MTS if they get hungry enough. Maybe the MTS meat doesn't appeal to them. Did you bring one of the snails to your "guru" fish lady or is she just going by your description of pointy? While MTS do have pointy shells, many other snails also have pointy shells so that is not enough of a description to know they are MTS for certain. MTS snails are not the same as nuisance snails since they do not as readily breed. Many people actually like having MTS.. I know I do.. since they help with cleaning up any uneaten food in the gravel since they like to burrow into the substrate. People with sand substrates like MTS since they'll keep the sand from getting compacted, which can cause anaerobic bacterial problems. If you do not have MTS, then the loaches should do their job. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] loaches Hi All, I am really confused now. I found a store that will take the clown loach that I got for the snails. I went to get some kuhli loaches from them in the process. The "guru" fish lady there told me that no loach will eat these snails and that I'll just have to keep pulling them out manually. What? The profiles I read and the advice I got here all said they will eat snails. She said they won't eat the kind that I have. I don't know. I bought some kuhli loaches anyway because they are interesting and I'll have the credit from the clown loach. Is this lady just not up with things or are there really some snails that the loaches just don't like? These are the common pointy type snails. I appreciate any help... Thanks, Traci Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27598	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: loaches and snails

Ok, I am pretty sure that these are the MTS snails. That's the kind they had at the LFS also. Maybe the clown will take care of some small ones. I'll just enjoy watching the kuhli's. They are really kind of interesting to watch. The lady at the store said something about the botia (they had two different types) but she didn't think they would help either. I guess I will continue to pull them out manually for now. Last night they swarmed again. I had three circles of them floating and dipped those out with a net. I wouldn't mind a few if they didn't just over run things. One of my filters makes a grinding noise now. I took both out and cleaned them and there were snails all in them. I am getting a bit obsessive about this now. :) I'm up at 2 or 3 in the morning pulling out snails. Who'd have thought it? LOL Thanks again guys for the help. I'm sure you'll be hearing back from me. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27599	From: harry perry	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails/Traci try this

Rubber band some lettuce to a rock. They should swarm to it. Just dispose of them as you see fit. "Swatek-Rice, Traci" <t-swatek@...> wrote: Ok, I am pretty sure that these are the MTS snails. That's the kind they had at the LFS also. Maybe the clown will take care of some small ones. I'll just enjoy watching the kuhli's. They are really kind of interesting to watch. The lady at the store said something about the botia (they had two different types) but she didn't think they would help either. I guess I will continue to pull them out manually for now. Last night they swarmed again. I had three circles of them floating and dipped those out with a net. I wouldn't mind a few if they didn't just over run things. One of my filters makes a grinding noise now. I took both out and cleaned them and there were snails all in them. I am getting a bit obsessive about this now. :) I'm up at 2 or 3 in the morning pulling out snails. Who'd have thought it? LOL Thanks again guys for the help. I'm sure you'll be hearing back from me. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27600	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

All the 29 gallon tank I have sold are not the same footprint as a 20 gallon .I sale All glass, oceanic and perfecto, they are all 12" x 30" footprint, so I dont know what Lenny is talking about , I have never seen a 29 in a 12"x 24" footprint. There is a 37 gallon in a 29's footprint. But no 29's in 12x24"footprint. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank I definitely wouldn't advise overstocking the tank. Most 29G's are tall tanks based on a 20G footprint so they have the same surface area as the smaller 20G tank so they are better off being under stocked anyhow. You didn't say whether any of the tetras are schooling with each other right now... are they? Oops... I just re-read your original post and you said the Serpae's and Diamond's sometimes school together. If the fish are schooling or at least semi-schooling, that helps relieve any stress issues related to schooling fish not being in schools. Often times, even schooling fish will not school when they feel completely comfortable in their environment. Do not do this often but sometimes a tap on the glass will startle them and they'll get into schooling formation as their instincts tell them to do. If they do this, then you may be OK with the 1/2 schools of those two and then fill out the Cherry Barbs. The other thing to think about is whether it is worth it to risk introducing a new pathogen into your tank simply to try and fill out a school completely. Do you have a separate tank to use as a Q-tank? Your other option would be to check with an LFS to see if they'd let you trade in one of your partial schools if you agreed to buy the fish you need to fill out the other schools. With this option, you could go up to seven of each of the 2" tetras giving you bigger schools and some leeway of still having 5 or 6 fish schools as any of the fish die off. Last but not least, you could get rid of the wife. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mathhaven Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank Hi Lenny, Thanks for the info. I didn't feel ignored at all - I don't get a chance to check as often as I'd like to, and I appreciate your expertise. My intuition told me they wouldn't be the best additions to Raini's tank (which is why I didn't follow the many sources that said they were compatible), but I'm glad to have some information to back it up. The MongaBay site was excellent - I've bookmarked it as one of my primary fish sources (along with GoldLenny.blogspot). When you (or anyone else reading) have a chance (again, no rush), I'd like any advice you have on what I should (or shouldn't) add to her tank. It's a 29 gallon, moderatetely planted, with a biowheel filter. The water is soft, and the Ph is about 6.4, and I do a five gallon water change (17%) weekly. We've got 4 Diamonds, 3 Serpaes, and 4 Cherry Barbs currently. By my calculations using the 1"/G rule (yours, not the fishkilling one, as their adult sizes are 2.5", 2" and 2"), the tank is understocked, but only slightly. It seems my choices are: 1. Leave it as it is, slightly understocked (24/29ths), without full schools. 2. Fill each of the schools to six, making it overstocked (39/29ths), and step up the water changes to twice a week. 3. Bring one species to a full school (but which one?) to a full school, and leave the other two species as they are. There may be a fourth option I haven't thought of, but unfortunately it is not getting a bigger tank, as that would be too expensive (not the tank itself, but the divorce my wife promised if I get any more tanks). Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi again Chris, > > Sorry, but I put this in my ToDo folder and I'm just now getting > around to looking through it so I'm several days late in replying. I > didn't mean to "ignore" your reply. > > 1) While molly's and some tetras may be compatible, you can't cover it > with a blanket statement since there are species of tetras from all > over the world. > > Here are the profiles on the two you mentioned. > Serpae Tetra (aka Jewel Tetra) > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html> > and the Diamond Tetra > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html> and > while they both like similar water parameters (lower pH and softer > water), molly's are not listed in the SC section (Suggested > Companions) because molly's, like most livebearers, prefer harder water with a higher pH and the addition of some salt http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> (scroll half way down). > > I wouldn't mix the two species for long term success. > > 2) It's best to have full schools of fish that prefer to be in schools > but I have seen intra-species schooling from fish in the same family > like your tetras. If you have sufficient room to handle the bioload, > it would be better to give them each their own school. > > As you will see from the above profiles, http://fish.mongabay.com > <http://fish.mongabay.com> has some of the best fish care profiles on > the internet and also include a reference section on each one so you > can read up quite a bit on your fish. It's a good place to start when > gathering initial information on a potential or new fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris McCarthy > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Lenny - > Thanks for the quick response! The message you're thinking of wasn't > from me > - I just joined about three weeks ago, and this was my first post. I > do get the compiled digest of e-mails once a day - I thought that > included all of the posts, but maybe I did miss some. > > After reading your message and before writing back, I looked through > older messages (but not all 27,000), and didn't see anything similar. > There was a recent one from a fellow asking about the number of tetras > for an 8 gallon, and some older ones asking about salt as a curative, > but nothing that really addressed what I am looking to learn about. > There did seem to be a number of members who keep mollies and tetras > together, but I couldn't find any reference to how much salt (if any) > is used. My wife has a ten gallon with four mollies, and keeps three > tablespoons of salt in it, and they're doing well. My daughter would > like some in her tank, but I want to hear from some more experienced folk before making any decisions. > > Thanks again! > > - Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:55 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Chris, > > Didn't we go over this recently.. in the past several weeks? It sure > seems familiar. Maybe you missed the replies due to spam filtering or > something or maybe I'm just morphing it into another fish keepers > questions. If so, I apologize, I just didn't want to start all over if > there is a pre-existing thread about your situation. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of mathhaven > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > About two months ago, I moved my daughter's tetras (3 serpae & 4 > diamond) from an overcrowded 10 gallon to a used 29 gallon I bought. > The transition went well, and our three dwarf frogs are enjoying the > old ten gallon. Last month I got her four cherry barbs, and they've > fit in quite nicely, and get along well with the tetras. I'm > considering getting her some mollies (2 females and a male), but I have some questions first... > 1. Nearly all my research says that mollies and tetras are compatible, > but it also says that mollies like some salt, and tetras do not like > any. It seems like either could tolerate the other's salinity, but > would be stressed by doing so. If anyone keeps these two together, how > much salt per gallon do you add? > 2. So far, all our fish seem happy and compatible. Feeding time is a > frenzy, but a peaceful one. My research has also led me to believe > that I should have six of each type (which would overstock the 29 > gallon even without any tetras). The serpaes sometimes swim with the > diamonds, sometimes just on their own (the cherry barbs usually just do their own thing). > Am I stressing them by not having a full school of each? Are there > certain behaviors I should look for before making any more stocking > decisions? I'm not in any particular rush. > Thanks for any advise. > - Chris > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27601	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails

Traci, A friend of mine lost a tank full of fish from these snails. They got into the impeller when he was out of town for a day or two. When he came back all the fish were dead. Of course the snails were unaffected. He has since taken to boiling his gravel by microwaving it. It makes a foul stench and he has to rinse it pretty good to rid it of dead snails. You might try putting a sponge filter over the intake on your filter. This will keep the larger snails from going directly in but the small ones will still get in and grow large and jam or break the impeller. -Mike In a message dated 5/3/2008 10:25:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, t-swatek@... writes: Last night they swarmed again. I had three circles of them floating and dipped those out with a net. I wouldn't mind a few if they didn't just over run things. One of my filters makes a grinding noise now. I took both out and cleaned them and there were snails all in them. I am getting a bit obsessive about this now. :) I'm up at 2 or 3 in the morning pulling out snails. Who'd have thought it? LOL Thanks again guys for the help. I'm sure you'll be hearing back from me. Traci Swatek-Rice **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27602	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails

Remember that snails and other critters are also bell weathers of things happening in your tank. They are opportunistic breeders and usually only populate or overpopulate a tank based on available food supplies so if they are breeding like crazy, then you may be overfeeding your fish or the fish aren't getting to the food in time and it's sinking down into the gravel. MTS actually spend a lot of time in the gravel and are good little cleanup critters and mostly only come out in the open when looking for food. If you are not overfeeding, then try vacuuming your gravel better and doing filter maintenance more frequently and that will take away their food source and they'll quit multiplying. Snails and algae and other aquarium critters are things that help us know when things might not be in their best condition... or if we got lazy or something else is going on that we need to figure out. You don't want to just kill them but rather figure out why they are multiplying in the first place and fix that condition. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 12:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] loaches and snails Ok, I am pretty sure that these are the MTS snails. That's the kind they had at the LFS also. Maybe the clown will take care of some small ones. I'll just enjoy watching the kuhli's. They are really kind of interesting to watch. The lady at the store said something about the botia (they had two different types) but she didn't think they would help either. I guess I will continue to pull them out manually for now. Last night they swarmed again. I had three circles of them floating and dipped those out with a net. I wouldn't mind a few if they didn't just over run things. One of my filters makes a grinding noise now. I took both out and cleaned them and there were snails all in them. I am getting a bit obsessive about this now. :) I'm up at 2 or 3 in the morning pulling out snails. Who'd have thought it? LOL Thanks again guys for the help. I'm sure you'll be hearing back from me. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27603	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

LOL. For those who do not know, Sissy doesn't like me and I'm surprised she saw my reply since she has publicly stated she blocks my emails.... but that is why she took this limited opportunity to say I don't know what I'm talking about. If she also sells a 20G long tank, then she would have known that the 29G has the same footprint as the 20G "long". Now, what she should have been said is that Lenny forgot to include the word "long" behind 20G since 29G's have the same footprint as a 20G long.... but it's still the same footprint as a 20G tank except the 20G long is 13" tall and the 29G is 17" tall. It might be 45% more water volume but it doesn't mean you can put 45% more fish since it's not more space for swimming/living unless one had fish that inhabited the various levels of a taller tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 12:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank All the 29 gallon tank I have sold are not the same footprint as a 20 gallon .I sale All glass, oceanic and perfecto, they are all 12" x 30" footprint, so I dont know what Lenny is talking about , I have never seen a 29 in a 12"x 24" footprint. There is a 37 gallon in a 29's footprint. But no 29's in 12x24"footprint. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank I definitely wouldn't advise overstocking the tank. Most 29G's are tall tanks based on a 20G footprint so they have the same surface area as the smaller 20G tank so they are better off being under stocked anyhow. You didn't say whether any of the tetras are schooling with each other right now... are they? Oops... I just re-read your original post and you said the Serpae's and Diamond's sometimes school together. If the fish are schooling or at least semi-schooling, that helps relieve any stress issues related to schooling fish not being in schools. Often times, even schooling fish will not school when they feel completely comfortable in their environment. Do not do this often but sometimes a tap on the glass will startle them and they'll get into schooling formation as their instincts tell them to do. If they do this, then you may be OK with the 1/2 schools of those two and then fill out the Cherry Barbs. The other thing to think about is whether it is worth it to risk introducing a new pathogen into your tank simply to try and fill out a school completely. Do you have a separate tank to use as a Q-tank? Your other option would be to check with an LFS to see if they'd let you trade in one of your partial schools if you agreed to buy the fish you need to fill out the other schools. With this option, you could go up to seven of each of the 2" tetras giving you bigger schools and some leeway of still having 5 or 6 fish schools as any of the fish die off. Last but not least, you could get rid of the wife. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mathhaven Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank Hi Lenny, Thanks for the info. I didn't feel ignored at all - I don't get a chance to check as often as I'd like to, and I appreciate your expertise. My intuition told me they wouldn't be the best additions to Raini's tank (which is why I didn't follow the many sources that said they were compatible), but I'm glad to have some information to back it up. The MongaBay site was excellent - I've bookmarked it as one of my primary fish sources (along with GoldLenny.blogspot). When you (or anyone else reading) have a chance (again, no rush), I'd like any advice you have on what I should (or shouldn't) add to her tank. It's a 29 gallon, moderatetely planted, with a biowheel filter. The water is soft, and the Ph is about 6.4, and I do a five gallon water change (17%) weekly. We've got 4 Diamonds, 3 Serpaes, and 4 Cherry Barbs currently. By my calculations using the 1"/G rule (yours, not the fishkilling one, as their adult sizes are 2.5", 2" and 2"), the tank is understocked, but only slightly. It seems my choices are: 1. Leave it as it is, slightly understocked (24/29ths), without full schools. 2. Fill each of the schools to six, making it overstocked (39/29ths), and step up the water changes to twice a week. 3. Bring one species to a full school (but which one?) to a full school, and leave the other two species as they are. There may be a fourth option I haven't thought of, but unfortunately it is not getting a bigger tank, as that would be too expensive (not the tank itself, but the divorce my wife promised if I get any more tanks). Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi again Chris, > > Sorry, but I put this in my ToDo folder and I'm just now getting > around to looking through it so I'm several days late in replying. I > didn't mean to "ignore" your reply. > > 1) While molly's and some tetras may be compatible, you can't cover it > with a blanket statement since there are species of tetras from all > over the world. > > Here are the profiles on the two you mentioned. > Serpae Tetra (aka Jewel Tetra) > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html> > and the Diamond Tetra > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html> and > while they both like similar water parameters (lower pH and softer > water), molly's are not listed in the SC section (Suggested > Companions) because molly's, like most livebearers, prefer harder > water with a higher pH and the addition of some salt http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> (scroll half way down). > > I wouldn't mix the two species for long term success. > > 2) It's best to have full schools of fish that prefer to be in schools > but I have seen intra-species schooling from fish in the same family > like your tetras. If you have sufficient room to handle the bioload, > it would be better to give them each their own school. > > As you will see from the above profiles, http://fish.mongabay.com > <http://fish.mongabay.com> has some of the best fish care profiles on > the internet and also include a reference section on each one so you > can read up quite a bit on your fish. It's a good place to start when > gathering initial information on a potential or new fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris McCarthy > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Lenny - > Thanks for the quick response! The message you're thinking of wasn't > from me > - I just joined about three weeks ago, and this was my first post. I > do get the compiled digest of e-mails once a day - I thought that > included all of the posts, but maybe I did miss some. > > After reading your message and before writing back, I looked through > older messages (but not all 27,000), and didn't see anything similar. > There was a recent one from a fellow asking about the number of tetras > for an 8 gallon, and some older ones asking about salt as a curative, > but nothing that really addressed what I am looking to learn about. > There did seem to be a number of members who keep mollies and tetras > together, but I couldn't find any reference to how much salt (if any) > is used. My wife has a ten gallon with four mollies, and keeps three > tablespoons of salt in it, and they're doing well. My daughter would > like some in her tank, but I want to hear from some more experienced > folk before making any decisions. > > Thanks again! > > - Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:55 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Chris, > > Didn't we go over this recently.. in the past several weeks? It sure > seems familiar. Maybe you missed the replies due to spam filtering or > something or maybe I'm just morphing it into another fish keepers > questions. If so, I apologize, I just didn't want to start all over if > there is a pre-existing thread about your situation. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of mathhaven > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > About two months ago, I moved my daughter's tetras (3 serpae & 4 > diamond) from an overcrowded 10 gallon to a used 29 gallon I bought. > The transition went well, and our three dwarf frogs are enjoying the > old ten gallon. Last month I got her four cherry barbs, and they've > fit in quite nicely, and get along well with the tetras. I'm > considering getting her some mollies (2 females and a male), but I > have some questions first... > 1. Nearly all my research says that mollies and tetras are compatible, > but it also says that mollies like some salt, and tetras do not like > any. It seems like either could tolerate the other's salinity, but > would be stressed by doing so. If anyone keeps these two together, how > much salt per gallon do you add? > 2. So far, all our fish seem happy and compatible. Feeding time is a > frenzy, but a peaceful one. My research has also led me to believe > that I should have six of each type (which would overstock the 29 > gallon even without any tetras). The serpaes sometimes swim with the > diamonds, sometimes just on their own (the cherry barbs usually just > do their own thing). > Am I stressing them by not having a full school of each? Are there > certain behaviors I should look for before making any more stocking > decisions? I'm not in any particular rush. > Thanks for any advise. > - Chris > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27604	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails

Doing bi-weekly filter maintenance will keep the snails from breaking a filter system also. It will also improve your water quality since filter systems that go too long between maintenance and proper cleanings will churn out a lot more nitrates as the excess muck and mulm in the filters breaks down into ammonia. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 1:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] loaches and snails Traci, A friend of mine lost a tank full of fish from these snails. They got into the impeller when he was out of town for a day or two. When he came back all the fish were dead. Of course the snails were unaffected. He has since taken to boiling his gravel by microwaving it. It makes a foul stench and he has to rinse it pretty good to rid it of dead snails. You might try putting a sponge filter over the intake on your filter. This will keep the larger snails from going directly in but the small ones will still get in and grow large and jam or break the impeller. -Mike In a message dated 5/3/2008 10:25:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, t-swatek@... <mailto:t-swatek%40ti.com> writes: Last night they swarmed again. I had three circles of them floating and dipped those out with a net. I wouldn't mind a few if they didn't just over run things. One of my filters makes a grinding noise now. I took both out and cleaned them and there were snails all in them. I am getting a bit obsessive about this now. :) I'm up at 2 or 3 in the morning pulling out snails. Who'd have thought it? LOL Thanks again guys for the help. I'm sure you'll be hearing back from me. Traci Swatek-Rice No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27605	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

I have a 20 gal tank that is 30"L �X 12 "D. It is 12"H. �Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Sissy Sathre <ssathre@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2008 12:44:19 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank All the 29 gallon tank I have sold are not the same footprint as a 20 gallon .I sale All glass, oceanic and perfecto, they are all� 12" x 30" footprint, so I dont know what Lenny is talking about , I have never seen a 29 in a 12"x 24" footprint. There is a 37 gallon in a 29's footprint. But no 29's in 12x24"footprint. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank I definitely wouldn't advise overstocking the tank.� Most 29G's are tall tanks based on a 20G footprint so they have the same surface area as the smaller 20G tank so they are better off being under stocked anyhow. You didn't say whether any of the tetras are schooling with each other right now... are they?� Oops... I just re-read your original post and you said the Serpae's and Diamond's sometimes school together.� If the fish are schooling or at least semi-schooling, that helps relieve any stress issues related to schooling fish not being in schools.� Often times, even schooling fish will not school when they feel completely comfortable in their environment.� Do not do this often but sometimes a tap on the glass will startle them and they'll get into schooling formation as their instincts tell them to do.� If they do this, then you may be OK with the 1/2 schools of those two and then fill out the Cherry Barbs. The other thing to think about is whether it is worth it to risk introducing a new pathogen into your tank simply to try and fill out a school completely.� Do you have a separate tank to use as a Q-tank? Your other option would be to check with an LFS to see if they'd let you trade in one of your partial schools if you agreed to buy the fish you need to fill out the other schools.� With this option, you could go up to seven of each of the 2" tetras giving you bigger schools and some leeway of still having 5 or 6 fish schools as any of the fish die off. Last but not least, you could get rid of the wife. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mathhaven Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank Hi Lenny, Thanks for the info. I didn't feel ignored at all - I don't get a chance to check as often as I'd like to, and I appreciate your expertise. My intuition told me they wouldn't be the best additions to Raini's tank (which is why I didn't follow the many sources that said they were compatible), but I'm glad to have some information to back it up. The MongaBay site was excellent - I've bookmarked it as one of my primary fish sources (along with GoldLenny.blogspot).. When you (or anyone else reading) have a chance (again, no rush), I'd like any advice you have on what I should (or shouldn't) add to her tank. It's a 29 gallon, moderatetely planted, with a biowheel filter. The water is soft, and the Ph is about 6.4, and I do a five gallon water change (17%) weekly. We've got 4 Diamonds, 3 Serpaes, and 4 Cherry Barbs currently.. By my calculations using the 1"/G rule (yours, not the fishkilling one, as their adult sizes are 2.5", 2" and 2"), the tank is understocked, but only slightly. It seems my choices are: 1. Leave it as it is, slightly understocked (24/29ths), without full schools. 2. Fill each of the schools to six, making it overstocked (39/29ths), and step up the water changes to twice a week. 3. Bring one species to a full school (but which one?) to a full school, and leave the other two species as they are. There may be a fourth option I haven't thought of, but unfortunately it is not getting a bigger tank, as that would be too expensive (not the tank itself, but the divorce my wife promised if I get any more tanks). Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi again Chris, > > Sorry, but I put this in my ToDo folder and I'm just now getting > around to looking through it so I'm several days late in replying. I > didn't mean to "ignore" your reply. > > 1) While molly's and some tetras may be compatible, you can't cover it > with a blanket statement since there are species of tetras from all > over the world. > > Here are the profiles on the two you mentioned. > Serpae Tetra (aka Jewel Tetra) > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html> > and the Diamond Tetra > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html>� and > while they both like similar water parameters (lower pH and softer > water), molly's are not listed in the SC section (Suggested > Companions) because molly's, like most livebearers, prefer harder water with a higher pH and the addition of some salt http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm>� (scroll half way down). > > I wouldn't mix the two species for long term success. > > 2) It's best to have full schools of fish that prefer to be in schools > but I have seen intra-species schooling from fish in the same family > like your tetras. If you have sufficient room to handle the bioload, > it would be better to give them each their own school. > > As you will see from the above profiles, http://fish.mongabay.com > <http://fish.mongabay.com>� has some of the best fish care profiles on > the internet and also include a reference section on each one so you > can read up quite a bit on your fish. It's a good place to start when > gathering initial information on a potential or new fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris McCarthy > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Lenny - > Thanks for the quick response! The message you're thinking of wasn't > from me > - I just joined about three weeks ago, and this was my first post. I > do get the compiled digest of e-mails once a day - I thought that > included all of the posts, but maybe I did miss some. > > After reading your message and before writing back, I looked through > older messages (but not all 27,000), and didn't see anything similar. > There was a recent one from a fellow asking about the number of tetras > for an 8 gallon, and some older ones asking about salt as a curative, > but nothing that really addressed what I am looking to learn about. > There did seem to be a number of members who keep mollies and tetras > together, but I couldn't find any reference to how much salt (if any) > is used. My wife has a ten gallon with four mollies, and keeps three > tablespoons of salt in it, and they're doing well. My daughter would > like some in her tank, but I want to hear from some more experienced folk before making any decisions. > > Thanks again! > > - Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:55 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Chris, > > Didn't we go over this recently.. in the past several weeks? It sure > seems familiar. Maybe you missed the replies due to spam filtering or > something or maybe I'm just morphing it into another fish keepers > questions.. If so, I apologize, I just didn't want to start all over if > there is a pre-existing thread about your situation. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of mathhaven > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > About two months ago, I moved my daughter's tetras (3 serpae & 4 > diamond) from an overcrowded 10 gallon to a used 29 gallon I bought. > The transition went well, and our three dwarf frogs are enjoying the > old ten gallon. Last month I got her four cherry barbs, and they've > fit in quite nicely, and get along well with the tetras. I'm > considering getting her some mollies (2 females and a male), but I have some questions first... > 1. Nearly all my research says that mollies and tetras are compatible, > but it also says that mollies like some salt, and tetras do not like > any. It seems like either could tolerate the other's salinity, but > would be stressed by doing so. If anyone keeps these two together, how > much salt per gallon do you add? > 2. So far, all our fish seem happy and compatible. Feeding time is a > frenzy, but a peaceful one. My research has also led me to believe > that I should have six of each type (which would overstock the 29 > gallon even without any tetras). The serpaes sometimes swim with the > diamonds, sometimes just on their own (the cherry barbs usually just do their own thing). > Am I stressing them by not having a full school of each? Are there > certain behaviors I should look for before making any more stocking > decisions? I'm not in any particular rush. > Thanks for any advise. > - Chris > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27606	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Parasites

Question. Just from curiosity. How would planaria get into your fish tank? I know you could pick them up from a plant or rock or piece of driftwood, or dirt, that came from a stream or pond. Is there another way to get them? I actually did an experiment using planaria for inverebrate zoology in college. I gathered them from a local pond. Then I had to keep them alive, and teach them to avoid light. Please don't tell me they naturally avoid light. I tried to replicate a newly famous experiment on intelligence in primitive life forms, with some success. The planaria I raised ate Kal-can cat food. What do they eat in fish tanks? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:26 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re; Parasites If they are not attaching to your fish and only come out at night, they are probably planaria or some other type of worm that thrives in the substrate when there is too much detritus in the substrate. The planaria I've seen and have in my cherry shrimp tank are not clear but rather an off-white color but the baby ones could look clear since they are so thin. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27607	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Re; Parasites

I'm not sure how they get into tanks in the first place but I would suspect that maybe flying insects might carry the planaria eggs from one source to another. I guess they could come in on live plants also but I've seen them in peoples tanks with no live plants so I'm guessing flying insects would be the primary way in those cases. In fish tanks, they eat excess detritus in the substrate. They will also eat any dead/decaying fish, shrimp, snails, etc. I think planaria are naturally nocturnal but like everything else, they don't always read the same things we do so I'm sure some don't pay attention to the lights being on if they are hungry. I have them in my Cherry Shrimp tank and I know I'll occasionally see one or more crawling on the glass during the day when the lights are on. I can't clean the gravel in the Cherry Shrimp tank as well as I'd like since there are always dozens of baby shrimp crawling around so I rely on the plants, snails and planaria to keep the detritus in check. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re; Parasites Question. Just from curiosity. How would planaria get into your fish tank? I know you could pick them up from a plant or rock or piece of driftwood, or dirt, that came from a stream or pond. Is there another way to get them? I actually did an experiment using planaria for inverebrate zoology in college. I gathered them from a local pond. Then I had to keep them alive, and teach them to avoid light. Please don't tell me they naturally avoid light. I tried to replicate a newly famous experiment on intelligence in primitive life forms, with some success. The planaria I raised ate Kal-can cat food. What do they eat in fish tanks? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:26 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re; Parasites If they are not attaching to your fish and only come out at night, they are probably planaria or some other type of worm that thrives in the substrate when there is too much detritus in the substrate. The planaria I've seen and have in my cherry shrimp tank are not clear but rather an off-white color but the baby ones could look clear since they are so thin. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27608	From: harry perry	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails/Snails can be your friends

As Lenny said they can be a "danger" indicator. All my tanks are heavily planted. My snails come to the top at "lights out" If there at the top during the day something needs attention. They help clean the gravel. They are excellent in fry tanks where water changes are tricky. A piece of nylon stocking with rubber bands over the filter intake will keep them out of your filter. "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Doing bi-weekly filter maintenance will keep the snails from breaking a filter system also. It will also improve your water quality since filter systems that go too long between maintenance and proper cleanings will churn out a lot more nitrates as the excess muck and mulm in the filters breaks down into ammonia. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 1:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] loaches and snails Traci, A friend of mine lost a tank full of fish from these snails. They got into the impeller when he was out of town for a day or two. When he came back all the fish were dead. Of course the snails were unaffected. He has since taken to boiling his gravel by microwaving it. It makes a foul stench and he has to rinse it pretty good to rid it of dead snails. You might try putting a sponge filter over the intake on your filter. This will keep the larger snails from going directly in but the small ones will still get in and grow large and jam or break the impeller. -Mike In a message dated 5/3/2008 10:25:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, t-swatek@... writes: Last night they swarmed again. I had three circles of them floating and dipped those out with a net. I wouldn't mind a few if they didn't just over run things. One of my filters makes a grinding noise now. I took both out and cleaned them and there were snails all in them. I am getting a bit obsessive about this now. :) I'm up at 2 or 3 in the morning pulling out snails. Who'd have thought it? LOL Thanks again guys for the help. I'm sure you'll be hearing back from me. Traci Swatek-Rice No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27609	From: Larry Nave	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Veggie Filter

Actually I have had tanks on the large open covered patio for several years with very few problems and healthy fish in them....we also have a 1000 gallon pond off the patio area. I keep the aquariums with plenty of aeration Rena 400 and 300 air pumps.....I was thinking of using the water feature as a veggie filter similar to the idea I got off the Puregold website...it totally knocked out her nitrates...this filter was connected to her pond. I live in Sacramento California area so the climate is pretty temperant...only problem is controlling summer heat. Larry u/a/a--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Nave" <l.nave@...> wrote: > > I am thinking about turning my wife's 1/2 barrel pump water feature > into a plant filter for my aquarium on the PATIO...it has > indirect(frosted) overhead sky lights...what plants would be best to > put into it?...I am thinking about plumbing it into my 50 gallon tank > like a wet/dry arrangement to take out nitrates out of the water and > give more water volume(similar to our pond) Any ideas? > Larry >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27610	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Ocean Geotronic Product found

Hey Sam, Sorry I didn't notice this message earlier, the change of "Subject" delayed reading it. Ocean Geotronic heater-cooler seems like a wonderful devise. But you just forgot one simple thing: I have no access to such products, even if, I suppose they're too expensive, can't afford them. I'm used to cheap prices here in Middle East. I have a heater that worked perfectly fine for the last 5 years, I bought it for 7$. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:55 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ocean Geotronic Product found > Hi Noura, > > I think due to your question I have come across a very well designed > solution to our problems of temperature regulation. > I have contacted the vendor and am waiting to find out what they say. > But just to give you the heads up on what I found, check out this site. > > http://www.oceangeotronic.com/ > > I got tired of putting ice in the tank and the stress put on the fish as > well > as on myself- this solution if it is reasonable will be a big advancement > in tank temperature regulation as it stands. > I will give more info to the group as I do evaluations in my own case. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27611	From: Carmen H	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails

Yea, uh, Lenny says to clean your filter... On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Doing bi-weekly filter maintenance will keep the snails from breaking a > filter system also. It will also improve your water quality since filter > systems that go too long between maintenance and proper cleanings will churn > out a lot more nitrates as the excess muck and mulm in the filters breaks > down into ammonia. > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 1:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] loaches and snails > > > Traci, > > A friend of mine lost a tank full of fish from these snails. They got into > the impeller when he was out of town for a day or two. When he came back all > the fish were dead. Of course the snails were unaffected. > > He has since taken to boiling his gravel by microwaving it. It makes a foul > stench and he has to rinse it pretty good to rid it of dead snails. > > You might try putting a sponge filter over the intake on your filter. This > will keep the larger snails from going directly in but the small ones will > still get in and grow large and jam or break the impeller. > > -Mike > > > In a message dated 5/3/2008 10:25:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > t-swatek@... <mailto:t-swatek%40ti.com> writes: > > Last night they swarmed again. I had three circles of them floating and > dipped those out with a net. I wouldn't mind a few if they didn't just over > run things. One of my filters makes a grinding noise now. I took both out > and cleaned them and there were snails all in them. I am getting a bit > obsessive about this now. :) I'm up at 2 or 3 in the morning pulling out > snails. Who'd have thought it? > LOL > > Thanks again guys for the help. I'm sure you'll be hearing back from me. > > Traci Swatek-Rice > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 > 4:34 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- Carmen and the pack Pawzie-tively Precious American Eskimo Rescue www.reskie.com Ontario, Canada

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27612	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: New Gouramies

Hey friends, 3 days ago, I got a pair of blue gouramies (M and F, 2"), and a pair of dwarf gouramies (2males, 3") to my 20 G community tank. The tank also includes a dozen of guppies, 3 clown loaches (around 2"), 2 Angel fish (3"), 1 platy, 2 Red Zebra Danios, 1 colliloach, 2 small yellow fishes that clean the glass and surfaces, don't know their name. I gave them the appropriate slow acclimation (3 hours). Is there anything specific to care of in order to keep my new gouramies alife and healthy? All the best, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27613	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: Members in France: Test Kit Advise

Thank you all guys, I appreciate your valuable information. I'll be back to this topic when I have the kit sent, to learn how to use it! All the best, Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27614	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

20 long is 30" x 12" right? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 1:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank All the 29 gallon tank I have sold are not the same footprint as a 20 gallon .I sale All glass, oceanic and perfecto, they are all 12" x 30" footprint, so I dont know what Lenny is talking about , I have never seen a 29 in a 12"x 24" footprint. There is a 37 gallon in a 29's footprint. But no 29's in 12x24"footprint. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank I definitely wouldn't advise overstocking the tank. Most 29G's are tall tanks based on a 20G footprint so they have the same surface area as the smaller 20G tank so they are better off being under stocked anyhow. You didn't say whether any of the tetras are schooling with each other right now... are they? Oops... I just re-read your original post and you said the Serpae's and Diamond's sometimes school together. If the fish are schooling or at least semi-schooling, that helps relieve any stress issues related to schooling fish not being in schools. Often times, even schooling fish will not school when they feel completely comfortable in their environment. Do not do this often but sometimes a tap on the glass will startle them and they'll get into schooling formation as their instincts tell them to do. If they do this, then you may be OK with the 1/2 schools of those two and then fill out the Cherry Barbs. The other thing to think about is whether it is worth it to risk introducing a new pathogen into your tank simply to try and fill out a school completely. Do you have a separate tank to use as a Q-tank? Your other option would be to check with an LFS to see if they'd let you trade in one of your partial schools if you agreed to buy the fish you need to fill out the other schools. With this option, you could go up to seven of each of the 2" tetras giving you bigger schools and some leeway of still having 5 or 6 fish schools as any of the fish die off. Last but not least, you could get rid of the wife. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mathhaven Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank Hi Lenny, Thanks for the info. I didn't feel ignored at all - I don't get a chance to check as often as I'd like to, and I appreciate your expertise. My intuition told me they wouldn't be the best additions to Raini's tank (which is why I didn't follow the many sources that said they were compatible), but I'm glad to have some information to back it up. The MongaBay site was excellent - I've bookmarked it as one of my primary fish sources (along with GoldLenny.blogspot). When you (or anyone else reading) have a chance (again, no rush), I'd like any advice you have on what I should (or shouldn't) add to her tank. It's a 29 gallon, moderatetely planted, with a biowheel filter. The water is soft, and the Ph is about 6.4, and I do a five gallon water change (17%) weekly. We've got 4 Diamonds, 3 Serpaes, and 4 Cherry Barbs currently. By my calculations using the 1"/G rule (yours, not the fishkilling one, as their adult sizes are 2.5", 2" and 2"), the tank is understocked, but only slightly. It seems my choices are: 1. Leave it as it is, slightly understocked (24/29ths), without full schools. 2. Fill each of the schools to six, making it overstocked (39/29ths), and step up the water changes to twice a week. 3. Bring one species to a full school (but which one?) to a full school, and leave the other two species as they are. There may be a fourth option I haven't thought of, but unfortunately it is not getting a bigger tank, as that would be too expensive (not the tank itself, but the divorce my wife promised if I get any more tanks). Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi again Chris, > > Sorry, but I put this in my ToDo folder and I'm just now getting > around to looking through it so I'm several days late in replying. I > didn't mean to "ignore" your reply. > > 1) While molly's and some tetras may be compatible, you can't cover it > with a blanket statement since there are species of tetras from all > over the world. > > Here are the profiles on the two you mentioned. > Serpae Tetra (aka Jewel Tetra) > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html> > and the Diamond Tetra > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html> and > while they both like similar water parameters (lower pH and softer > water), molly's are not listed in the SC section (Suggested > Companions) because molly's, like most livebearers, prefer harder water with a higher pH and the addition of some salt http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> (scroll half way down). > > I wouldn't mix the two species for long term success. > > 2) It's best to have full schools of fish that prefer to be in schools > but I have seen intra-species schooling from fish in the same family > like your tetras. If you have sufficient room to handle the bioload, > it would be better to give them each their own school. > > As you will see from the above profiles, http://fish.mongabay.com > <http://fish.mongabay.com> has some of the best fish care profiles on > the internet and also include a reference section on each one so you > can read up quite a bit on your fish. It's a good place to start when > gathering initial information on a potential or new fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris McCarthy > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Lenny - > Thanks for the quick response! The message you're thinking of wasn't > from me > - I just joined about three weeks ago, and this was my first post. I > do get the compiled digest of e-mails once a day - I thought that > included all of the posts, but maybe I did miss some. > > After reading your message and before writing back, I looked through > older messages (but not all 27,000), and didn't see anything similar. > There was a recent one from a fellow asking about the number of tetras > for an 8 gallon, and some older ones asking about salt as a curative, > but nothing that really addressed what I am looking to learn about. > There did seem to be a number of members who keep mollies and tetras > together, but I couldn't find any reference to how much salt (if any) > is used. My wife has a ten gallon with four mollies, and keeps three > tablespoons of salt in it, and they're doing well. My daughter would > like some in her tank, but I want to hear from some more experienced folk before making any decisions. > > Thanks again! > > - Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:55 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Chris, > > Didn't we go over this recently.. in the past several weeks? It sure > seems familiar. Maybe you missed the replies due to spam filtering or > something or maybe I'm just morphing it into another fish keepers > questions. If so, I apologize, I just didn't want to start all over if > there is a pre-existing thread about your situation. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of mathhaven > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > About two months ago, I moved my daughter's tetras (3 serpae & 4 > diamond) from an overcrowded 10 gallon to a used 29 gallon I bought. > The transition went well, and our three dwarf frogs are enjoying the > old ten gallon. Last month I got her four cherry barbs, and they've > fit in quite nicely, and get along well with the tetras. I'm > considering getting her some mollies (2 females and a male), but I have some questions first... > 1. Nearly all my research says that mollies and tetras are compatible, > but it also says that mollies like some salt, and tetras do not like > any. It seems like either could tolerate the other's salinity, but > would be stressed by doing so. If anyone keeps these two together, how > much salt per gallon do you add? > 2. So far, all our fish seem happy and compatible. Feeding time is a > frenzy, but a peaceful one. My research has also led me to believe > that I should have six of each type (which would overstock the 29 > gallon even without any tetras). The serpaes sometimes swim with the > diamonds, sometimes just on their own (the cherry barbs usually just do their own thing). > Am I stressing them by not having a full school of each? Are there > certain behaviors I should look for before making any more stocking > decisions? I'm not in any particular rush. > Thanks for any advise. > - Chris > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27615	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: New Gouramies

You have far too many fish for a 20G and many of your fish get much too big for a 20G. Even if all of your fish were only supposed to grow to 1" long, you have 27 fish in the tank but the Clown Loaches grow to over 12" long, the Angelfish grow to 6"x9" and the Blue Gouramis grow to 6" long. Go to http://fish.mongabay.com and read the profiles/care sheets on each of your fish and add up the recommended gallons for each fish. At a glance, I'm guessing you would need around 200G+ for all of your known fish. Do you have plans for a much larger tank or multiple tanks to put the fish in? If not, there is almost no way for your fish to have full and healthy lives in a 20G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 6:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Gouramies Hey friends, 3 days ago, I got a pair of blue gouramies (M and F, 2"), and a pair of dwarf gouramies (2males, 3") to my 20 G community tank. The tank also includes a dozen of guppies, 3 clown loaches (around 2"), 2 Angel fish (3"), 1 platy, 2 Red Zebra Danios, 1 colliloach, 2 small yellow fishes that clean the glass and surfaces, don't know their name. I gave them the appropriate slow acclimation (3 hours). Is there anything specific to care of in order to keep my new gouramies alife and healthy? All the best, Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27616	From: James (Jim) Darlack	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches, drunken snails?

Hi group, Years ago, I read that you can trap and kill snails by leaving a saucer of stale beer outside. They smell the beer, crawl in, get intoxicated, and drown. NO KIDDING! I did read it on internet. However, the drunken slurred screaming would get on my nerves. Can you imagine how long it would take a snail to sing, "How dry I am?". Time it with a 24 hour hour glass! ! ! ! Hmm.. I should try it. I havent seen any snails in my yard. However, I did spot land snails in a park a few miles from my home. Jim --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27617	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches, drunken snails?

I heard that works for land snails. You better watch out with that park only a few miles away, you might end up with land bums (and Homer Simpson) smelling the beer and crawling their way into your backyard. ;-) I forgot all about that old drunken sing-a-long song until I saw your one line. I was amazed at how fast it came back to me. Now in my best drunken slurring voice... How dry I am, How wet I'll be, If I don't find, The bathroom key. I found the key, Now where's the door, Uh Oh, too late, It's on the floor! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James (Jim) Darlack Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 9:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: loaches, drunken snails? Hi group, Years ago, I read that you can trap and kill snails by leaving a saucer of stale beer outside. They smell the beer, crawl in, get intoxicated, and drown. NO KIDDING! I did read it on internet. However, the drunken slurred screaming would get on my nerves. Can you imagine how long it would take a snail to sing, "How dry I am?". Time it with a 24 hour hour glass! ! ! ! Hmm.. I should try it. I havent seen any snails in my yard. However, I did spot land snails in a park a few miles from my home. Jim --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27618	From: Sissy Sathre	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

Yes Donna, I did forget about the 20 Long! not to worrie you and Lenny are perfectly correct! And I shall say no more. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 6:55 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank 20 long is 30" x 12" right? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 1:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank All the 29 gallon tank I have sold are not the same footprint as a 20 gallon .I sale All glass, oceanic and perfecto, they are all 12" x 30" footprint, so I dont know what Lenny is talking about , I have never seen a 29 in a 12"x 24" footprint. There is a 37 gallon in a 29's footprint. But no 29's in 12x24"footprint. Sissy Sathre DBA Aquariums By Sissy www.aquariumsbysissy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank I definitely wouldn't advise overstocking the tank. Most 29G's are tall tanks based on a 20G footprint so they have the same surface area as the smaller 20G tank so they are better off being under stocked anyhow. You didn't say whether any of the tetras are schooling with each other right now... are they? Oops... I just re-read your original post and you said the Serpae's and Diamond's sometimes school together. If the fish are schooling or at least semi-schooling, that helps relieve any stress issues related to schooling fish not being in schools. Often times, even schooling fish will not school when they feel completely comfortable in their environment. Do not do this often but sometimes a tap on the glass will startle them and they'll get into schooling formation as their instincts tell them to do. If they do this, then you may be OK with the 1/2 schools of those two and then fill out the Cherry Barbs. The other thing to think about is whether it is worth it to risk introducing a new pathogen into your tank simply to try and fill out a school completely. Do you have a separate tank to use as a Q-tank? Your other option would be to check with an LFS to see if they'd let you trade in one of your partial schools if you agreed to buy the fish you need to fill out the other schools. With this option, you could go up to seven of each of the 2" tetras giving you bigger schools and some leeway of still having 5 or 6 fish schools as any of the fish die off. Last but not least, you could get rid of the wife. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mathhaven Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank Hi Lenny, Thanks for the info. I didn't feel ignored at all - I don't get a chance to check as often as I'd like to, and I appreciate your expertise. My intuition told me they wouldn't be the best additions to Raini's tank (which is why I didn't follow the many sources that said they were compatible), but I'm glad to have some information to back it up. The MongaBay site was excellent - I've bookmarked it as one of my primary fish sources (along with GoldLenny.blogspot). When you (or anyone else reading) have a chance (again, no rush), I'd like any advice you have on what I should (or shouldn't) add to her tank. It's a 29 gallon, moderatetely planted, with a biowheel filter. The water is soft, and the Ph is about 6.4, and I do a five gallon water change (17%) weekly. We've got 4 Diamonds, 3 Serpaes, and 4 Cherry Barbs currently. By my calculations using the 1"/G rule (yours, not the fishkilling one, as their adult sizes are 2.5", 2" and 2"), the tank is understocked, but only slightly. It seems my choices are: 1. Leave it as it is, slightly understocked (24/29ths), without full schools. 2. Fill each of the schools to six, making it overstocked (39/29ths), and step up the water changes to twice a week. 3. Bring one species to a full school (but which one?) to a full school, and leave the other two species as they are. There may be a fourth option I haven't thought of, but unfortunately it is not getting a bigger tank, as that would be too expensive (not the tank itself, but the divorce my wife promised if I get any more tanks). Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi again Chris, > > Sorry, but I put this in my ToDo folder and I'm just now getting > around to looking through it so I'm several days late in replying. I > didn't mean to "ignore" your reply. > > 1) While molly's and some tetras may be compatible, you can't cover it > with a blanket statement since there are species of tetras from all > over the world. > > Here are the profiles on the two you mentioned. > Serpae Tetra (aka Jewel Tetra) > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_callistus.html> > and the Diamond Tetra > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_pittieri.html> and > while they both like similar water parameters (lower pH and softer > water), molly's are not listed in the SC section (Suggested > Companions) because molly's, like most livebearers, prefer harder water with a higher pH and the addition of some salt http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> (scroll half way down). > > I wouldn't mix the two species for long term success. > > 2) It's best to have full schools of fish that prefer to be in schools > but I have seen intra-species schooling from fish in the same family > like your tetras. If you have sufficient room to handle the bioload, > it would be better to give them each their own school. > > As you will see from the above profiles, http://fish.mongabay.com > <http://fish.mongabay.com> has some of the best fish care profiles on > the internet and also include a reference section on each one so you > can read up quite a bit on your fish. It's a good place to start when > gathering initial information on a potential or new fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris McCarthy > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Lenny - > Thanks for the quick response! The message you're thinking of wasn't > from me > - I just joined about three weeks ago, and this was my first post. I > do get the compiled digest of e-mails once a day - I thought that > included all of the posts, but maybe I did miss some. > > After reading your message and before writing back, I looked through > older messages (but not all 27,000), and didn't see anything similar. > There was a recent one from a fellow asking about the number of tetras > for an 8 gallon, and some older ones asking about salt as a curative, > but nothing that really addressed what I am looking to learn about. > There did seem to be a number of members who keep mollies and tetras > together, but I couldn't find any reference to how much salt (if any) > is used. My wife has a ten gallon with four mollies, and keeps three > tablespoons of salt in it, and they're doing well. My daughter would > like some in her tank, but I want to hear from some more experienced folk before making any decisions. > > Thanks again! > > - Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:55 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Hi Chris, > > Didn't we go over this recently.. in the past several weeks? It sure > seems familiar. Maybe you missed the replies due to spam filtering or > something or maybe I'm just morphing it into another fish keepers > questions. If so, I apologize, I just didn't want to start all over if > there is a pre-existing thread about your situation. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of mathhaven > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 29 Gallon Community Tank > > About two months ago, I moved my daughter's tetras (3 serpae & 4 > diamond) from an overcrowded 10 gallon to a used 29 gallon I bought. > The transition went well, and our three dwarf frogs are enjoying the > old ten gallon. Last month I got her four cherry barbs, and they've > fit in quite nicely, and get along well with the tetras. I'm > considering getting her some mollies (2 females and a male), but I have some questions first... > 1. Nearly all my research says that mollies and tetras are compatible, > but it also says that mollies like some salt, and tetras do not like > any. It seems like either could tolerate the other's salinity, but > would be stressed by doing so. If anyone keeps these two together, how > much salt per gallon do you add? > 2. So far, all our fish seem happy and compatible. Feeding time is a > frenzy, but a peaceful one. My research has also led me to believe > that I should have six of each type (which would overstock the 29 > gallon even without any tetras). The serpaes sometimes swim with the > diamonds, sometimes just on their own (the cherry barbs usually just do their own thing). > Am I stressing them by not having a full school of each? Are there > certain behaviors I should look for before making any more stocking > decisions? I'm not in any particular rush. > Thanks for any advise. > - Chris > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27619	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/3/2008
Subject: Re: loaches, drunken snails?

I thought the saucer of beer was for slugs (and, it works), but snails may be attracted also. A leaf of lettuce in the tank works very well, if you remove it early enough in the day. The beer will not work well in the aquarium, as alcohol has a tendency to float, but the fish might get a buss <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James (Jim) Darlack Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: loaches, drunken snails? Hi group, Years ago, I read that you can trap and kill snails by leaving a saucer of stale beer outside. They smell the beer, crawl in, get intoxicated, and drown. NO KIDDING! I did read it on internet. However, the drunken slurred screaming would get on my nerves. Can you imagine how long it would take a snail to sing, "How dry I am?". Time it with a 24 hour hour glass! ! ! ! Hmm.. I should try it. I havent seen any snails in my yard. However, I did spot land snails in a park a few miles from my home. Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27620	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: New Gouramies

No plans, neither room, for bigger or 'other' tanks Lenny. The problem is that i can't control myself when I see beautiful 'guys' in the fish store, even though I previously know that they're gonna be BIG guys later! My basic plan was to take the fish away once they grew big, and replace them with smaller ones , or even with other species. The tank got that much crowded when I had to move my baby guppies -whom are not babies anymore- from the fry 2G aquarium. But I understand that it's crowded even without this addition. It seems like there's no way to make a balance between my big 'appetite' for keeping several species, and between keeping them healthy, a sacrifice must be done here I guess! Thanks for the link, I'll check it right now. " Here's another nice place for such information http://www.liveaquaria.com . it's commercial but contains beautiful pics of all species." Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Gouramies You have far too many fish for a 20G and many of your fish get much too big for a 20G. Even if all of your fish were only supposed to grow to 1" long, you have 27 fish in the tank but the Clown Loaches grow to over 12" long, the Angelfish grow to 6"x9" and the Blue Gouramis grow to 6" long. Go to http://fish.mongabay.com and read the profiles/care sheets on each of your fish and add up the recommended gallons for each fish. At a glance, I'm guessing you would need around 200G+ for all of your known fish. Do you have plans for a much larger tank or multiple tanks to put the fish in? If not, there is almost no way for your fish to have full and healthy lives in a 20G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27621	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Filtration Challenge

Hi, I was reading some articles in http://fish.mongabay.com "Thanks Lenny". And found many types of filtration that I didn't know anything about. Again, I remind you that I live in middle east, and there isn't a good fishkeeping culture here. Anyway, I'll describe the filtration system in my 20G community tank, I'll really appreciate if you take a look and tell me what you think of it. 1) Under-gravel filter , attached to a power head (18 W, 1500 Liters/hour), and has an external air tube to distribute room air into the water all while filtering the water. The powerhead DOESN'T contain sponge, wool or anything. On the plastic plate of the filter, under the gravel, there's a layer of wool (I don't know if you call it glass cotton) between the plate and the gravel. The gravel is 1" thick in the front and 2" in the back. There are 5 medium sized live plants in the tank. I heard that this type of filtering serves as a biological filteration, don't know about that. 2) Internal (submersible) power filter, contains rubber net to catch large debris, and inside it there's wool (glass cotton). Doesn't contain activated coal or anything. In my OTHER 2 G small tank (used for raising guppy fry), there's only an Internal Box Filter, contains gravel and a thick layer of glass cotton, and attached to a weak air pump. So what do you think of my tank's filteration, considering the poor fish equipments and supplies here?! I'll be glad to read all of your opinions Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27622	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: loaches, drunken snails?

A fish keeper told me to put a large piece of raw peeled potato, and remove it before daylight breaks in. I never tried it, my loaches did the work for me. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 6:56 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: loaches, drunken snails? I thought the saucer of beer was for slugs (and, it works), but snails may be attracted also. A leaf of lettuce in the tank works very well, if you remove it early enough in the day. The beer will not work well in the aquarium, as alcohol has a tendency to float, but the fish might get a buss <g>. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27623	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Messages Delay- Off topic

I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. Am I still considered a newly?! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27624	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: loaches, drunken snails?

I have a planted tank and the snails (hitchhikers with the plants in the first place) are chewing the plants to bits. Will they leave the plants and go to the lettuce? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: loaches, drunken snails? I thought the saucer of beer was for slugs (and, it works), but snails may be attracted also. A leaf of lettuce in the tank works very well, if you remove it early enough in the day. The beer will not work well in the aquarium, as alcohol has a tendency to float, but the fish might get a buss <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James (Jim) Darlack Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: loaches, drunken snails? Hi group, Years ago, I read that you can trap and kill snails by leaving a saucer of stale beer outside. They smell the beer, crawl in, get intoxicated, and drown. NO KIDDING! I did read it on internet. However, the drunken slurred screaming would get on my nerves. Can you imagine how long it would take a snail to sing, "How dry I am?". Time it with a 24 hour hour glass! ! ! ! Hmm.. I should try it. I havent seen any snails in my yard. However, I did spot land snails in a park a few miles from my home. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27625	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic

The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, can always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by sending your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. Am I still considered a newly?! Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 12:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27626	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Filtration Challenge

Noura, Often it is called glass wool, which is a throwback to earlier days when it was actually fiberglass, and called glass wool. Today, it is polyester, for the most part. With the layer of glass wool between the gravel and the UGF (UnderGravel Filter), the health of your filter becomes problematic. Eventually, that layer will become clogged, and there is no good way to clean it without completely removing the substrate and replacing it. The failure of this layer will probably take some time to be discovered, which will not be good for your fish. When it is convenient, you should remove this glass wool from your set up. After this has been done, you will need to occasionally put a tube down under your UGF to siphon off the mulm that will collect there. When you change the way this filter works, you are likely to suffer a mini-cycle from the loss of nitrifying bacteria, but keeping the existing gravel damp will definitely help minimize this. For your other filter, I'd replace it with an external hang off the back (HOB or HOT (Hang Off the Tank)) that uses foam blocks as the filter media. Use of granular activated carbon (the coal you refer to) or GAC, is only recommended in certain situations for removing such as medications or other dissolved organic carbons (DOC). For your two gallon, I'd switch you over to a sponge filter, which will do all your current bubble up does, and it will also provide a food source for your fry. The last two suggestions will slightly increase the volume of water in your tanks, which is very important for the way you are stuffing fish in those tanks. Look around your home with a bit of imagination, and I am sure you will find space for more tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 4:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filtration Challenge Hi, I was reading some articles in http://fish.mongabay.com "Thanks Lenny". And found many types of filtration that I didn't know anything about. Again, I remind you that I live in middle east, and there isn't a good fishkeeping culture here. Anyway, I'll describe the filtration system in my 20G community tank, I'll really appreciate if you take a look and tell me what you think of it. 1) Under-gravel filter , attached to a power head (18 W, 1500 Liters/hour), and has an external air tube to distribute room air into the water all while filtering the water. The powerhead DOESN'T contain sponge, wool or anything. On the plastic plate of the filter, under the gravel, there's a layer of wool (I don't know if you call it glass cotton) between the plate and the gravel. The gravel is 1" thick in the front and 2" in the back. There are 5 medium sized live plants in the tank. I heard that this type of filtering serves as a biological filteration, don't know about that. 2) Internal (submersible) power filter, contains rubber net to catch large debris, and inside it there's wool (glass cotton). Doesn't contain activated coal or anything. In my OTHER 2 G small tank (used for raising guppy fry), there's only an Internal Box Filter, contains gravel and a thick layer of glass cotton, and attached to a weak air pump. So what do you think of my tank's filteration, considering the poor fish equipments and supplies here?! I'll be glad to read all of your opinions Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27627	From: Wendie	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic

It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's life in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or you will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if you depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email notification arrives. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, can always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by sending your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. Am I still considered a newly?! Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 12:00 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27628	From: Larry Nave	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Veggie Filter

I am going to get a bucket of bioballs(lava another option)and place it on the inside edge of the barrel with holes in it to let the water escape and have the plants more on the surface and draw the water from the surface....the input would be in the bottom of the bucket....then to further clean the water go through my Eheim Classic and then back to the aquarium....hoping the Eheim will be strong enough. Larry -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Nave" <l.nave@...> wrote: > > I am thinking about turning my wife's 1/2 barrel pump water feature > into a plant filter for my aquarium on the PATIO...it has > indirect(frosted) overhead sky lights...what plants would be best to > put into it?...I am thinking about plumbing it into my 50 gallon tank > like a wet/dry arrangement to take out nitrates out of the water and > give more water volume(similar to our pond) Any ideas? > Larry >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27629	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic

The best thing to do is to take people off of moderation when they have shown that they are not spammers. I put all new members on moderation then un-mod them after several postings... Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Wendie /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:30 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /* /*It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's /*life /*in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or /*you /*will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if /*you /*depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so /*I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email /*notification arrives. /*Wendie /* /* /*----- Original Message ----- /*From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> /*To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /* /* /*The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and /*off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily /*off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, /*can /*always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by /*sending /*your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of N Taweel /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /* /* /*I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. /*Am I still considered a newly?! /* /*Noura /* /* /*No virus found in this outgoing message. /*Checked by AVG. /*Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 12:00 /*AM /* /* /* /*------------------------------------ /* /*Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. /*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT /*LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /* /* /* /* /*------------------------------------ /* /*Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. /*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /*

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27630	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic

Then, you probably know, it is not the original post that caused the problem, but those who went on and on about it rather than just ignore the original post as they should. This is what probably brought the list owner to the conclusion to make this a moderated group. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's life in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or you will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if you depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email notification arrives. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, can always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by sending your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. Am I still considered a newly?! Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 12:00 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. *´Ż`*.¸¸.><((((ş>.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸><((((ş> ¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸<ş((((><¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..<ş((((><*´Ż`*.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. *´Ż`*.¸¸.><((((ş>.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸><((((ş> ¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.*´Ż`*.¸¸.*´Ż`*.¸<ş((((><¸.*´Ż`*.¸. , .*´Ż`*..<ş((((><*´Ż`*.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27631	From: harry perry	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/I agree with Steve

I thought the original post was funny. Some folks just need to lighten up. This is a fish group but not an exercise in rules and regulations. Next time we'll call in the fish police. Harry, a moderator Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: Then, you probably know, it is not the original post that caused the problem, but those who went on and on about it rather than just ignore the original post as they should. This is what probably brought the list owner to the conclusion to make this a moderated group. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's life in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or you will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if you depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email notification arrives. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" To: Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, can always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by sending your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. Am I still considered a newly?! Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 12:00 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. *´¯`*.¸¸.><((((º>.*´¯`*.¸¸.*´¯`*.¸><((((º> ¸.*´¯`*.¸. , .*´¯`*..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.*´¯`*.¸¸.*´¯`*.¸<º((((><¸.*´¯`*.¸. , .*´¯`*..<º((((><*´¯`*.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. *´¯`*.¸¸.><((((º>.*´¯`*.¸¸.*´¯`*.¸><((((º> ¸.*´¯`*.¸. , .*´¯`*..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.*´¯`*.¸¸.*´¯`*.¸<º((((><¸.*´¯`*.¸. , .*´¯`*..<º((((><*´¯`*.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27632	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Veggie Filter

You may then wish to consider philodendron as one option, but you'll also need to build a trellis, or give it some type of framework to climb on. An acquaintance had a tank with philodendron placed along the back in breeding traps that nearly took over the whole bathroom it was in. Water hyacinth is another choice you have, another plant you'll need to keep in check. You can also consider a pot or two of Louisiana iris. Parrots feather is another plant that you may consider, it has feathery leaves, but I have never seen it flower. _Lobellia cardinalis_ is a pretty red plant with red flowers. Look up bog plants for more suggestions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Nave Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Veggie Filter I am going to get a bucket of bioballs(lava another option)and place it on the inside edge of the barrel with holes in it to let the water escape and have the plants more on the surface and draw the water from the surface....the input would be in the bottom of the bucket....then to further clean the water go through my Eheim Classic and then back to the aquarium....hoping the Eheim will be strong enough. Larry -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Nave" <l.nave@...> wrote: > > I am thinking about turning my wife's 1/2 barrel pump water feature > into a plant filter for my aquarium on the PATIO...it has > indirect(frosted) overhead sky lights...what plants would be best to > put into it?...I am thinking about plumbing it into my 50 gallon tank > like a wet/dry arrangement to take out nitrates out of the water and > give more water volume(similar to our pond) Any ideas? > Larry > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27633	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic

Hi Eric, I agree with you. I prefer to run a group where all would be members need moderator approval, then are moderated long enough to show they are not a spammer or a troll. Much the same as you appear to do. This group was run that way until it recently went down a path that almost always leads to disrupting or even derailing a group completely.  Hopefully this group will get back to running smoothly soon. -Mike, one of many Mods. The best thing to do is to take people off of moderation when they have hown that they are not spammers. I put all new members on moderation then n-mod them after several postings... -----Original Message----- From: Eric Roberts <woad@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 4 May 2008 8:46 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic The best thing to do is to take people off of moderation when they have hown that they are not spammers. I put all new members on moderation then n-mod them after several postings... Eric /*-----Original Message----- *From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On *Behalf Of Wendie *Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:30 AM *To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com *Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic * *It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's *life *in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or *you *will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if *you *depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so *I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email *notification arrives. *Wendie * * *----- Original Message ----- *From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> *To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> *Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM *Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic * * *The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and *off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily *off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, *can *always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by *sending *your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. * *Lenny Vasbinder *Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com * * *-----Original Message----- *From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On *Behalf Of N Taweel *Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM *To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com *Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic * * *I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. *Am I still considered a newly?! * *Noura * * *No virus found in this outgoing message. *Checked by AVG. *Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 12:00 *AM * * * *------------------------------------ * *Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. *.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> *PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to *the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the *SUBJECT *LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- *<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. *We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links * * * * * * *------------------------------------ * *Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. *.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> *PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to *the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the *SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- *<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. *We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links * * * ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27634	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic

Maybe the owner can check to see if there are moderators from different time zones around the world since it looks like Noura's messages hit the group around 2-3am CST (Central USA time) but I don't see them until they are released in the morning here. I guess for a really big group like this one, it would be good to have a moderator in time zones every few hours around the world so there is more of a chance that a moderator will be online when messages hit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's life in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or you will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if you depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email notification arrives. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, can always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by sending your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. Am I still considered a newly?! Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/I agree with Steve

Harry, I thought the original post was funny too but don't you know that people cannot tell jokes anymore as someone might get offended. Thank God us old folks don't fall for or worry about that PC (not personal computer... political correctness) junk. Ooops.. I said God. I guess I'm in trouble now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic/I agree with Steve I thought the original post was funny. Some folks just need to lighten up. This is a fish group but not an exercise in rules and regulations. Next time we'll call in the fish police. Harry, a moderator Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: Then, you probably know, it is not the original post that caused the problem, but those who went on and on about it rather than just ignore the original post as they should. This is what probably brought the list owner to the conclusion to make this a moderated group. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's life in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or you will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if you depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email notification arrives. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" To: Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, can always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by sending your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> . Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. Am I still considered a newly?! Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27636	From: Wendie	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic

Good idea. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:46 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic The best thing to do is to take people off of moderation when they have shown that they are not spammers. I put all new members on moderation then un-mod them after several postings... Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Wendie /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:30 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /* /*It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's /*life /*in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or /*you /*will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if /*you /*depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so /*I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email /*notification arrives. /*Wendie /* /* /*----- Original Message ----- /*From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> /*To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /* /* /*The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and /*off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily /*off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, /*can /*always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by /*sending /*your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of N Taweel /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /* /* /*I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. /*Am I still considered a newly?! /* /*Noura /* /* /*No virus found in this outgoing message. /*Checked by AVG. /*Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 12:00 /*AM /* /* /* /*------------------------------------ /* /*Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. /*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT /*LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /* /* /* /* /*------------------------------------ /* /*Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. /*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /* ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27637	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: (no subject)

Our water lilly did not do well last year and we needed a wee bit more cover to the surface of our water garden. Just before we went on vacation we bought a gorgeous Water Hawthorne and submerged it. It had a couple of small flower blooms on it before we left and we have a couple of new ones have broken the surface. We bought a feeding ring for the watergarden that was made for an aquarium which I put in today. The fish are getting active and the water temp has been staying above 54 so I put just a bit of food in which was eagerly eaten. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27638	From: Suzi	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic

I'm a lurker, who reads and learns.. I'm not a spammer. just a fish lover that loves to learn. Have: 20gal with firemouth cichlid in it and a 14gal with 4 plattys. ----- Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic Hi Eric, I agree with you. I prefer to run a group where all would be members need moderator approval, then are moderated long enough to show they are not a spammer or a troll. Much the same as you appear to do. This group was run that way until it recently went down a path that almost always leads to disrupting or even derailing a group completely. Hopefully this group will get back to running smoothly soon. -Mike, one of many Mods. The best thing to do is to take people off of moderation when they have hown that they are not spammers. I put all new members on moderation then n-mod them after several postings... -----Original Message----- From: Eric Roberts <woad@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 4 May 2008 8:46 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic The best thing to do is to take people off of moderation when they have hown that they are not spammers. I put all new members on moderation then n-mod them after several postings... Eric /*-----Original Message----- *From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On *Behalf Of Wendie *Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:30 AM *To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com *Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic * *It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's *life *in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or *you *will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if *you *depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so *I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email *notification arrives. *Wendie * * *----- Original Message ----- *From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> *To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> *Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM *Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic * * *The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and *off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily *off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, *can *always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by *sending *your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. * *Lenny Vasbinder *Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com * * *-----Original Message----- *From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On *Behalf Of N Taweel *Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM *To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com *Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic * * *I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. *Am I still considered a newly?! * *Noura * * *No virus found in this outgoing message. *Checked by AVG. *Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 12:00 *AM * * * *------------------------------------ * *Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. *.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> *PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to *the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the *SUBJECT *LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- *<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. *We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links * * * * * * *------------------------------------ * *Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. *.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> *PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to *the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the *SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- *<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. *We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links * * * ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27639	From: harry perry	Date: 5/4/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/Hey Lenny

Knock it off. Next thing you know we'll be getting up in the middle of the night. You can have that shift. Harry "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Maybe the owner can check to see if there are moderators from different time zones around the world since it looks like Noura's messages hit the group around 2-3am CST (Central USA time) but I don't see them until they are released in the morning here. I guess for a really big group like this one, it would be good to have a moderator in time zones every few hours around the world so there is more of a chance that a moderator will be online when messages hit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's life in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or you will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if you depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email notification arrives. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" To: Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, can always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by sending your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. Am I still considered a newly?! Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 11:22 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27640	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Filtration Challenge

----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 5:05 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filtration Challenge Noura, Often it is called glass wool, which is a throwback to earlier days when it was actually fiberglass, and called glass wool. Today, it is polyester, for the most part. With the layer of glass wool between the gravel and the UGF (UnderGravel Filter), the health of your filter becomes problematic. Eventually, that layer will become clogged, and there is no good way to clean it without completely removing the substrate and replacing it. The failure of this layer will probably take some time to be discovered, which will not be good for your fish. When it is convenient, you should remove this glass wool from your set up. After this has been done, you will need to occasionally put a tube down under your UGF to siphon off the mulm that will collect there. When you change the way this filter works, you are likely to suffer a mini-cycle from the loss of nitrifying bacteria, but keeping the existing gravel damp will definitely help minimize this. For your other filter, I'd replace it with an external hang off the back (HOB or HOT (Hang Off the Tank)) that uses foam blocks as the filter media. Use of granular activated carbon (the coal you refer to) or GAC, is only recommended in certain situations for removing such as medications or other dissolved organic carbons (DOC). For your two gallon, I'd switch you over to a sponge filter, which will do all your current bubble up does, and it will also provide a food source for your fry. The last two suggestions will slightly increase the volume of water in your tanks, which is very important for the way you are stuffing fish in those tanks. Look around your home with a bit of imagination, and I am sure you will find space for more tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 4:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filtration Challenge Hi, I was reading some articles in http://fish.mongabay.com "Thanks Lenny". And found many types of filtration that I didn't know anything about. Again, I remind you that I live in middle east, and there isn't a good fishkeeping culture here. Anyway, I'll describe the filtration system in my 20G community tank, I'll really appreciate if you take a look and tell me what you think of it. 1) Under-gravel filter , attached to a power head (18 W, 1500 Liters/hour), and has an external air tube to distribute room air into the water all while filtering the water. The powerhead DOESN'T contain sponge, wool or anything. On the plastic plate of the filter, under the gravel, there's a layer of wool (I don't know if you call it glass cotton) between the plate and the gravel. The gravel is 1" thick in the front and 2" in the back. There are 5 medium sized live plants in the tank. I heard that this type of filtering serves as a biological filteration, don't know about that. 2) Internal (submersible) power filter, contains rubber net to catch large debris, and inside it there's wool (glass cotton). Doesn't contain activated coal or anything. In my OTHER 2 G small tank (used for raising guppy fry), there's only an Internal Box Filter, contains gravel and a thick layer of glass cotton, and attached to a weak air pump. So what do you think of my tank's filteration, considering the poor fish equipments and supplies here?! I'll be glad to read all of your opinions Noura ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27641	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Kuhli Loaches

The more I read about these guys, the more I want to get a few for one of my planted tanks (either the 29 or the 55). Are they bottom feeders? I have nuisance snails that they might find enjoyable (the small ones at least - not the MTS kind). Would my having a higher Ph (around 7.6 to 7.8) be bothersome for them though? Also, would they be bothered by the constant motion of cory cats on the bottom with them (though two of my Juli cory's hang in the middle of the tank)? Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27642	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: red ear slider tank mates?

i got a red ear slider last week and i got his tank all set up and he has adjusted well. i was just wondering if there were any tank mates you would suggest. right now it's just my turtle that is only an inch and a half long, his floating log and a sandy bottom. what else would you suggest, if anything?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27643	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Kuhli Loaches

Here's three reputable profiles. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/loaches/kuhliloach.html You'll see they prefer a lower pH, below 7.0. Is your tap water 7.6 to 7.8 or is your tank 7.6 to 7.8? If that is your tank's pH, then what is your tap water baseline pH? What are your GH and KH test results? If your other fish will do well in lower pH water, you could add a piece of driftwood to the tank or use peat moss in your filter(s) as a way to soften your water and lower your pH but things will depend on your tap water baseline. See my blog article on establishing your tapwater baseline. What other fish do you have in the tank(s) besides the corys? Since Kuhli's like most loaches, prefer to be kept in groups of five or more... or at least three as a bare minimum... and they grow to 4", bioload issues have to be taken into consideration. In the 55G, which has much more surface area and thus bottom area, having two shoals of bottom dwellers would not be as much of an issue compared to the 29G which has a much smaller footprint. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Kuhli Loaches The more I read about these guys, the more I want to get a few for one of my planted tanks (either the 29 or the 55). Are they bottom feeders? I have nuisance snails that they might find enjoyable (the small ones at least - not the MTS kind). Would my having a higher Ph (around 7.6 to 7.8) be bothersome for them though? Also, would they be bothered by the constant motion of cory cats on the bottom with them (though two of my Juli cory's hang in the middle of the tank)? Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1414 - Release Date: 5/4/2008 12:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27644	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Filter Intake Question

Harry wrote: "A piece of nylon stocking with rubber bands over the filter intake will keep them out of your filter." Does this really work well? I am finding that whenever any of my live plants breaks off a leaf, etc., it goes straight to the filter intake. All of my intakes are always coated with something (especially that nasty Java Moss!). I am also worried about guppy fry being sucked into it. Just wondering what other folks do and if the pantyhose really lets enough through to get everything running good. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27645	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/I agree with Steve

I don't think I ever saw the original posting hehehehe. I do think a lot of people take things too seriously. I made a negative comment about our local freecycle groups and one of the moderators, who is a mod on one of the local freecycle groups that I am not even on got all pissy with me and started sending a series of crazy stalker type emails to soothe his ego. Definitely needs some lightening up. While this is a fish list, we are also a community that talks about other things besides fish from time to time. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:04 PM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic/I agree with Steve /* /*Harry, /* /*I thought the original post was funny too but don't you know that people /*cannot tell jokes anymore as someone might get offended. /* /*Thank God us old folks don't fall for or worry about that PC (not personal /*computer... political correctness) junk. Ooops.. I said God. I guess I'm /*in trouble now. LOL /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /* /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of harry perry /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:25 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic/I agree with Steve /* /*I thought the original post was funny. Some folks just need to lighten up. /* /*This is a fish group but not an exercise in rules and regulations. /* /*Next time we'll call in the fish police. /* /*Harry, a moderator /* /*Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > /*wrote: /*Then, you probably know, it is not the original post that caused the /*problem, but those who went on and on about it rather than just ignore the /*original post as they should. This is what probably brought the list owner /*to the conclusion to make this a moderated group. /* /*\\Steve// /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> /*[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> /*] /*On Behalf Of Wendie /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:30 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> /*Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /* /*It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's /*life /*in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or you /*will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if /*you /*depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so /*I'm /*constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email /*notification arrives. /*Wendie /* /*----- Original Message ----- /*From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" /*To: /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /* /*The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and /*off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily /*off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, /*can /*always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by /*sending /*your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com /*<mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> . /* /*Lenny Vasbinder /*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> /* /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> /*[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> /*] /*On Behalf Of N Taweel /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> /*Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /* /*I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. /*Am I still considered a newly?! /* /*Noura /* /* /*No virus found in this outgoing message. /*Checked by AVG. /*Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 /*11:22 AM /* /* /* /*------------------------------------ /* /*Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. /*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /*

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27646	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic

It works really well. The only time we have spam on the lists is when one of the mods screw up and accidentally approve spam. Other than that, we have been spam free for years using this system. It does require having a few moderators so one person doesn't get overwhelmed since it is more work, but then you also put that in the list rules so that people know that they will be moderated and then they will expect a little bit of lagtime for their messages. Eric /*-----Original Message----- /*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On /*Behalf Of Wendie /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 12:35 PM /*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /* /*Good idea. /*Wendie /* /*----- Original Message ----- /*From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> /*To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> /*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:46 AM /*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /* /* /*The best thing to do is to take people off of moderation when they have /*shown that they are not spammers. I put all new members on moderation /*then /*un-mod them after several postings... /* /*Eric /* /*/*-----Original Message----- /*/*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] /*On /*/*Behalf Of Wendie /*/*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:30 AM /*/*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*/*Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /*/* /*/*It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's /*/*life /*/*in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or /*/*you /*/*will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if /*/*you /*/*depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups /*so /*/*I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email /*/*notification arrives. /*/*Wendie /*/* /*/* /*/*----- Original Message ----- /*/*From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> /*/*To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> /*/*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM /*/*Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /*/* /*/* /*/*The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and /*/*off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily /*/*off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, /*/*can /*/*always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by /*/*sending /*/*your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com. /*/* /*/*Lenny Vasbinder /*/*Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com /*/* /*/* /*/*-----Original Message----- /*/*From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] /*On /*/*Behalf Of N Taweel /*/*Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM /*/*To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com /*/*Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic /*/* /*/* /*/*I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the /*board. /*/*Am I still considered a newly?! /*/* /*/*Noura /*/* /*/* /*/*No virus found in this outgoing message. /*/*Checked by AVG. /*/*Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 /*12:00 /*/*AM /*/* /*/* /*/* /*/*------------------------------------ /*/* /*/*Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank /*You. /*/*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> /*/*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important /*to /*/*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*/*SUBJECT /*/*LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*/*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. /*/*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /*/* /*/* /*/* /*/* /*/* /*/* /*/*------------------------------------ /*/* /*/*Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank /*You. /*/*.´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> /*/*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important /*to /*/*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*/*SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*/*<ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. /*/*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /*/* /*/* /*/* /* /* /*------------------------------------ /* /*Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. /*ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT /*LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /* /* /* /* /*------------------------------------ /* /*Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. /*ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.><((((ş>.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸><((((ş> ¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..><((((ş> /*PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to /*the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the /*SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- /*<ş((((><.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸<ş((((><¸.ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸. , .ˇ´Ż`ˇ..<ş((((><ˇ´Ż`ˇ.¸¸. /*We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links /* /* /*

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27647	From: bmp	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Moderators

Hi, With all the talk of a better moderated list, I wonder who are the moderators here? I know Mike is but I wonder if there are others? Thanks, Beverly Peace, please! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27648	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Kuhli Loaches

Most of the time they hide in the gravel and you don't see them.for months on end even. It's unfortunate that they hide because they are really cool fish. I have some that I bought when I first got into the hobby several years ago. I thought they died or were eaten (or both) when I didn't see them for several months.then out of the blue they reappeared. This also happened when I tore down a tank once. I used to use a UGF and when I took that apart there was a bunch hiding in the grid.I think they might have even bred as there were more than I remembered having prior to that hehehe. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Kuhli Loaches The more I read about these guys, the more I want to get a few for one of my planted tanks (either the 29 or the 55). Are they bottom feeders? I have nuisance snails that they might find enjoyable (the small ones at least - not the MTS kind). Would my having a higher Ph (around 7.6 to 7.8) be bothersome for them though? Also, would they be bothered by the constant motion of cory cats on the bottom with them (though two of my Juli cory's hang in the middle of the tank)? Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27649	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question

I have never personaly done it but know many people that have done it also for filters that have a high gph intake to keep their guppies and other fish like that from getting sucked in and they swear by it. I would imagine it being the same with lose plants also. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Paula Brown" <brownp3@...> Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 15:51:52 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter Intake Question Harry wrote: "A piece of nylon stocking with rubber bands over the filter intake will keep them out of your filter." Does this really work well? I am finding that whenever any of my live plants breaks off a leaf, etc., it goes straight to the filter intake. All of my intakes are always coated with something (especially that nasty Java Moss!). I am also worried about guppy fry being sucked into it. Just wondering what other folks do and if the pantyhose really lets enough through to get everything running good. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27650	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?

A close friend of mine put african cichlids in with hers. They get decent size so you wouldn't have to worry bout them getting eaten for a while. But you do have to have a tank that is going to be big enough not to mention realize that no matter what instinct is going to kick in at some point and they will get eaten. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "thtanoyinguy" <thtanoyinguy@...> Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 17:21:37 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] red ear slider tank mates? i got a red ear slider last week and i got his tank all set up and he has adjusted well. i was just wondering if there were any tank mates you would suggest. right now it's just my turtle that is only an inch and a half long, his floating log and a sandy bottom. what else would you suggest, if anything?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27651	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?

Another turtle. ----- Original Message ----- From: thtanoyinguy Date: Monday, May 5, 2008 3:48 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] red ear slider tank mates? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > i got a red ear slider last week and i got his tank all set up > and he > has adjusted well. i was just wondering if there were any tank > mates > you would suggest. right now it's just my turtle that is only an > inch > and a half long, his floating log and a sandy bottom. what else > would > you suggest, if anything? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27652	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question

I use a filter media bag over the screen inlet on my Cherry Shrimp tank. Of course, any plant debris, etc. that gets caught by the filter media bag is food for the cherry shrimp and they spend lots of time crawling all over the inlet tube area munching on anything that is stuck on there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter Intake Question Harry wrote: "A piece of nylon stocking with rubber bands over the filter intake will keep them out of your filter." Does this really work well? I am finding that whenever any of my live plants breaks off a leaf, etc., it goes straight to the filter intake. All of my intakes are always coated with something (especially that nasty Java Moss!). I am also worried about guppy fry being sucked into it. Just wondering what other folks do and if the pantyhose really lets enough through to get everything running good. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1414 - Release Date: 5/4/2008 12:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27653	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question

i find that what works well in the intake sponge off a supreme mag drive water pump (for example) they're not too expensive, they can be reused forever, and they give the intake a lot more surface area so it takes longer to clog, turn off the filter and rinse and you are back in business! ----- Original Message ----- From: Paula Brown To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter Intake Question Harry wrote: "A piece of nylon stocking with rubber bands over the filter intake will keep them out of your filter." Does this really work well? I am finding that whenever any of my live plants breaks off a leaf, etc., it goes straight to the filter intake. All of my intakes are always coated with something (especially that nasty Java Moss!). I am also worried about guppy fry being sucked into it. Just wondering what other folks do and if the pantyhose really lets enough through to get everything running good. Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27654	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?

And remember that RES turtles get REALLY BIG.. around 12"+ in diameter so they need really BIG tanks and lots of filtrations to handle their bioload and to give them room to swim around. They are eating and pooping machines. lol Work on at least a 6' long tank for when it starts to get a little bigger. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of betti@... Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] red ear slider tank mates? Another turtle. ----- Original Message ----- From: thtanoyinguy Date: Monday, May 5, 2008 3:48 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] red ear slider tank mates? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > i got a red ear slider last week and i got his tank all set up and he > has adjusted well. i was just wondering if there were any tank mates > you would suggest. right now it's just my turtle that is only an inch > and a half long, his floating log and a sandy bottom. what else would > you suggest, if anything? > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1414 - Release Date: 5/4/2008 12:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27655	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?

You should see the pic of a turtle with 1/2 of a full size lab in his mouth! That's what get's posted on the cichlid forum when this question comes up. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] red ear slider tank mates? A close friend of mine put african cichlids in with hers. They get decent size so you wouldn't have to worry bout them getting eaten for a while. But you do have to have a tank that is going to be big enough not to mention realize that no matter what instinct is going to kick in at some point and they will get eaten. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "thtanoyinguy" <thtanoyinguy@...> Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 17:21:37 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] red ear slider tank mates? i got a red ear slider last week and i got his tank all set up and he has adjusted well. i was just wondering if there were any tank mates you would suggest. right now it's just my turtle that is only an inch and a half long, his floating log and a sandy bottom. what else would you suggest, if anything? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27656	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Kuhli Loaches

Not sure if it's because mine are still new to the tank but I see them quite a bit. They come out at feeding time also. They might settle in after they are used to the tank. For now they really are neat to watch. The kids didn't like them when I first brought them home but they are watching for them now. I still have snails though. sigh... Gonna try the potato tonight. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Paula Brown Sent: Mon 5/5/2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Kuhli Loaches The more I read about these guys, the more I want to get a few for one of my planted tanks (either the 29 or the 55). Are they bottom feeders? I have nuisance snails that they might find enjoyable (the small ones at least - not the MTS kind). Would my having a higher Ph (around 7.6 to 7.8) be bothersome for them though? Also, would they be bothered by the constant motion of cory cats on the bottom with them (though two of my Juli cory's hang in the middle of the tank)? Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27657	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: loaches and snails

Ok, I have the nylon over the filter intakes. I am going to pull the gravel out and nuke it... Not looking forward to that one. Still going to try the potato tonight but I am NOT going to share my beer with these little pests. I just can't make my self do that. :) Thanks everyone! Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sat 5/3/2008 2:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] loaches and snails Remember that snails and other critters are also bell weathers of things happening in your tank. They are opportunistic breeders and usually only populate or overpopulate a tank based on available food supplies so if they are breeding like crazy, then you may be overfeeding your fish or the fish aren't getting to the food in time and it's sinking down into the gravel. MTS actually spend a lot of time in the gravel and are good little cleanup critters and mostly only come out in the open when looking for food. If you are not overfeeding, then try vacuuming your gravel better and doing filter maintenance more frequently and that will take away their food source and they'll quit multiplying. Snails and algae and other aquarium critters are things that help us know when things might not be in their best condition... or if we got lazy or something else is going on that we need to figure out. You don't want to just kill them but rather figure out why they are multiplying in the first place and fix that condition. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Swatek-Rice, Traci Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 12:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] loaches and snails Ok, I am pretty sure that these are the MTS snails. That's the kind they had at the LFS also. Maybe the clown will take care of some small ones. I'll just enjoy watching the kuhli's. They are really kind of interesting to watch. The lady at the store said something about the botia (they had two different types) but she didn't think they would help either. I guess I will continue to pull them out manually for now. Last night they swarmed again. I had three circles of them floating and dipped those out with a net. I wouldn't mind a few if they didn't just over run things. One of my filters makes a grinding noise now. I took both out and cleaned them and there were snails all in them. I am getting a bit obsessive about this now. :) I'm up at 2 or 3 in the morning pulling out snails. Who'd have thought it? LOL Thanks again guys for the help. I'm sure you'll be hearing back from me. Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 4:34 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Z`·.¸¸.><((((s>.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸><((((s> ¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..><((((s> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <s((((><.·´Z`·.¸¸.·´Z`·.¸<s((((><¸.·´Z`·.¸. , .·´Z`·..<s((((><·´Z`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27658	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Re: Moderators

I am given to understand that there are 9 moderators for this group. I don't know if it is a good thing or a bad thing to know who the moderators are. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bmp Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Moderators Hi, With all the talk of a better moderated list, I wonder who are the moderators here? I know Mike is but I wonder if there are others? Thanks, Beverly Peace, please!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27659	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/5/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

I've written many times in the past and recently in the Bio-Spira debate about my complaints about Tetra and many of their products. Several years ago, I signed up for Tetra's E-Minder "service" and I usually just delete them when they arrive but I decided to forward this one so I can point out why I have such disdain for some of Tetra's products. -----Original Message----- From: Tetra [mailto:e-Minders@...] Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:37 AM To: Lenny Vasbinder Subject: Monthly Aquarium Maintenance Tetra E-Minder Hello from TetraCare. To keep your aquarium in tip-top condition, please be sure you're doing the following on a regular basis: Test the water monthly using your test kit. Is the water okay (normal pH, zero ammonia, zero nitrite)? If not, please call us at 1-800-423-6458, and we'll help you correct any problems. Do a partial (25%) water change, unless you're using EasyBalance(R). Be sure to add a water treatment such as AquaSafe(R) to the water you add to the aquarium, as tap water is toxic to your fish. Change the cartridge in your Power Filter every month. The TetraCare team is always here to help you. You can contact us at 1-800-423-6458. We're here 7:30 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. EDT Monday through Friday, and Noon to 6:00 p.m. Saturday & Sunday; otherwise leave a voice mail message, and we promise to return your call within 24 hours! Or click here to send an e-mail message. There's never a charge for TetraCare - we're happy to help. The TetraCare team This message was intended for: Lenny Vasbinder You were added to the system April 8, 2005. -----End of Original Message----- (I deleted the HTML, images and links from the above email but the text was otherwise unedited) Now, here are my complaints about their suggestions... They start off suggesting that folks should test their water monthly... a good thing, but for beginners, it should be more frequent than once a month. This is the same canned message they give every month so a newbie with a newly set up tank will be in seriously bad shape if they only test once a month during the cycling with fish stage. The bad thing about their testing suggestion is they only suggest testing for ammonia, nitrite and pH. What about nitrates? Without knowing the nitrate level, it could be climbing into the danger zone over the course of several months but newer fish keepers would be thinking they are OK because the tests that Tetra suggested were OK. Please note that I signed up for this "service" back in 2005 and it's the same canned message each month... and nothing mentioned about testing for nitrates in over three years. Tetra also mentions "normal pH" but what is "normal"? Newbies may think that neutral pH 7.0 is "normal" but we all know that "normal" is whatever your tap/source water baseline pH tests reveal. I'll leave it to others to call the 800 number to see what kind of advice they get over the phone. They suggest doing a 25% PWC once a month which might be OK in a lightly stocked tank but since so many newbies usually start off with overstocked tanks and/or un-cycled tanks, changing only 25% once a month will be problematic. They also suggest changing the filter cartridge once a month but for tanks with a simple HOB/Tetra Whisper type filter system which only has a single filter cartridge with no other filter media, then changing out the filter cartridge will completely trash 90% of your nitrifying bacteria since the overwhelming majority of them live in the filter cartridge. This advice will put most tanks into a mini-cycle where the fish will have to endure an ammonia and nitrite spike. Doing this monthly will have long term effects on your fishes health. I have a blog article that goes into more detail about how filters should be cleaned/maintained so the nitrifying bacteria are not killed off or trashed each time. Now the REALLY BAD THING ABOUT TETRA... In that same paragraph where they suggest the 25% PWC they say "UNLESS YOU'RE USING EASYBALANCE". The reason they say this is because their product, EasyBalance, claims that folks do not have to do PWC's of any kind except for every six months. EasyBalance advertisements state the following... "Reduces frequent water changes of freshwater aquariums by keeping water biologically and chemically balanced for up to six months. Reduce the need to perform frequent water changes in your freshwater aquarium with Tetra's EasyBalance(reg), enhanced with Nitraban(tm), an additive that reduces nitrate levels in aquariums. EasyBalance offers a number of benefits, including: reduction of phosphate levels for improved water quality; stabilization of pH and alkalinity (KH) to avoid sudden, dramatic changed in pH that could be harmful to fish; and adds the vitamin, essential trace elements, and minerals for a healthy aquarium. Nitraban adds nitrate reducing granules to the water. The white biodegradable granules settle into the gravel where they are broken down by bacteria. The bacteria consume nitrate, which reduces food for unsightly algae in the aquarium. Do not use in aquariums with low oxygen conditions; aeration with an airstone is highly recommended. Add one teaspoon for every five gallons of aquarium water. Repeat dosage weekly. Change 50 - 75% of your aquarium's water at least once every six months if using EasyBalance." And now the rest of the story... Here is what I found on their MSDS which took me quite a while to find and the only place I could find it was on Wal-Mart's MSDS search page for products they carry. Here is the link to the Walmart.com MSDS for Tetra Easy Balance. http://msds.walmartstores.com/cache/2258_1.pdf Here is a snip from the MSDS list of "dangerous components:" Sodium Hydroxide (up to) 2.5% Tartaric Acid (up to) 2.5% Formaldehyde (up to) 2.5% (So it has a dangerous Base and a dangerous Acid and then Formaldehyde... so I guess the chemicals kill the fish and then off-set each other and the Formaldehyde preserves the dead fish so they appear to be alive when the filtration moves them around the tank.. LOL) The other ingredients are Sucrose and Water (89.4%) and an undisclosed 3.1% of something.. or maybe it's 3.1% Sucrose but the MSDS doesn't clarify what the missing 3.1% is made up of. The other potentially very serious negative about the product is that the "nitraban" is actually some kind of little pellet that gets distributed into the gravel and then these pellets dissolve. If you have foraging fish like goldfish, certain cichlids, etc., they could easily ingest these pellets and who knows what kinds of side effects that would have on the long term health of the fish. There is a forum thread that I read a while back about a guppy tank where the guppies did not breed or have babies even once during the time of the Easy Balance dosing on the tank. IMO, anything that stops guppies from breeding has to be a serious chemical compound that can't be good for our fish. If Tetra was to re-market the product as a fish birth control and give full disclosure of the negatives of the product, then I may not have as many complaints about the product. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1414 - Release Date: 5/4/2008 12:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27660	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Fancy Goldfish

We have an inground pond approximately 260 gallons, maybe 2.5 foot deep. This pond is located in Toledo, Ohio. Right now it only has three feeder goldfish around 2 inches each from last summer along with some water hyacinths and some parrot's feather. The temperature of the water is just now over 50 degrees so we are starting to feed the fish. Can fancy goldfish (very young ones) survive over the winter in a pond (we do keep a floating stock tank heater on it after the water dips below 50 degrees)? We have a friend with a much larger pond that will take any fish that we see are getting too big for the pond (which will eventually happen, I am sure), but I don't want to add something that will need to be taken out within a year or two. I am really surprised at how very little the feeder goldfish (dang, I hate calling them that!) grew in the year now that we have had them in the pond. Maybe 1 inch in a year. There is nothing else in the pond and it is protected from outside invaders except any birds of course (and I do think we lost some fish to the birds). We added 30 mosquito fish to it last spring courtesy of the co-op extension, but none of them survived the winter, even with the stock pond heater. Paula in Monroe, Michigan (who will be testing my tanks tonight so that I can answer Lenny's questions about my wanting Kuhli Loaches)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27661	From: thtanoyinguy	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?

i think i am just going to leave him alone and just give him some plants. i was thinking about some neon tetras just for colors, but he will probably eat them..so, i'll prob. just leave him be....plus i only have him in a 20 gal. til i can afford bigger...any idea how fast they grow? does anyone have a link to the turtle with the dog pic? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "thtanoyinguy" <thtanoyinguy@...> wrote: > > i got a red ear slider last week and i got his tank all set up and he > has adjusted well. i was just wondering if there were any tank mates > you would suggest. right now it's just my turtle that is only an inch > and a half long, his floating log and a sandy bottom. what else would > you suggest, if anything?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27662	From: ipartyforfun	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Question, problem with my pond.

I am having a major ammonia problem with one of my ponds. It is not your typical pond, it is a 650 gallon blue poly tank, like the ones koi are in for shows. It is bare bottom, with a 900 gallon pump, and 1600 gallon filter with UV light. 4 fish in it. The pond co says I should be able to put more in it than that. We have done a 75% water change twice in the past week and a half, as recommended by a friend who owns a pond company. Ph is 7.0, Nitrates and Nitrites are all at the lowest on the test chart. I am using API test kits, drops not strips. Ammonia is around 2.0. The pond co did tests on the water, got the same readings as mine, including the ammonia, so my tests are not bad. There is no run off, the tank is half in the ground, half out. No trees, no dogs to pee in it. They are as baffled as am I. We have 2 other ponds, and the results are all great. Same water, etc. Tested our tap water and the ammonia level is at 0. I contacted the company for the poly tank and they say nothing could be leeching from the tank, which is our only last assumption. Any suggestions? Thanks for your time. Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27663	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question

What I've been doing for fry or cherry shrimp tanks works quite well. I went to JoAnn's/Michaels/Hobby Lobby/etc and bought a square 2" x 14" x 14" of poly foam. It's what you would make seat cushions out of, of course this one would make a very small seat cushion. I just make sure that I get the one that I can blow or suck air through very easily. Every once in a while I get funny looks when people see me sucking foam, but that's life. ;-) For one example, I have an aquaclear HOB filter with an intake about an inch in diameter. So I turned this square on its side and measured 2" over and 4" down. So I ended up with a 4" tall, 2" wide, and 2" deep square of foam. Next I squish it under running water to get it full of water and then stick it in the freezer. The next day I take it out and grab my electric drill with about a 3/4" bit on it. Drill a hole from the top stopping about 1/2" from the bottom. Just to be pretty I take a sharp knife and cut the corner edges off of it to make the edges more round, but you don't have to. You can put it back in the freezer if it start to thaw. It's easier to cut when frozen. Once you're done, just run some water over it and it will thaw out almost instantly. Slide that up on my filter intake and I can't even tell there's a slow down of water flow. Now no little critters can get into my filter. No need for a rubber band, just drill the hole a little smaller than your intake line's diameter. The other affect of this is it almost polishes the water because the holes are so small. Instead of keeping much filter material in the HOB, I can put other stuff in there and just swish out this sponge every once in a while when it gets nasty or water flow slows. I figure the sponge also makes a great bed for the bacteria to grow. Something else I like in my Cherry tank is they gather on the sponge and eat the bits of stuff that stick to it. It's almost like giving them a little buffet. haha. Oh, and I can make a whole bunch of these for the $3 I paid at Hobby Lobby (actually where I got it). I've used aquarium sealant to glue squares together to make them taller a time or two and that's worked well too. Have fun makeing sponges. Lynn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <brownp3@...> wrote: > > Harry wrote: "A piece of nylon stocking with rubber bands over the filter intake will keep them out of your filter." > > Does this really work well? I am finding that whenever any of my live plants breaks off a leaf, etc., it goes straight to the filter intake. All of my intakes are always coated with something (especially that nasty Java Moss!). I am also worried about guppy fry being sucked into it. Just wondering what other folks do and if the pantyhose really lets enough through to get everything running good. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27664	From: nice6669	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: selver arowana baby

what do you guys think i should feed it i still has a small egg sack

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27665	From: Debra	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question

Thank you Lynn! You are a genius!!! Debra Melton Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Lynn Francis" <mlfrancis2@...> Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 20:07:03 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Filter Intake Question What I've been doing for fry or cherry shrimp tanks works quite well. I went to JoAnn's/Michaels/Hobby Lobby/etc and bought a square 2" x 14" x 14" of poly foam. It's what you would make seat cushions out of, of course this one would make a very small seat cushion. I just make sure that I get the one that I can blow or suck air through very easily. Every once in a while I get funny looks when people see me sucking foam, but that's life. ;-) For one example, I have an aquaclear HOB filter with an intake about an inch in diameter. So I turned this square on its side and measured 2" over and 4" down. So I ended up with a 4" tall, 2" wide, and 2" deep square of foam. Next I squish it under running water to get it full of water and then stick it in the freezer. The next day I take it out and grab my electric drill with about a 3/4" bit on it. Drill a hole from the top stopping about 1/2" from the bottom. Just to be pretty I take a sharp knife and cut the corner edges off of it to make the edges more round, but you don't have to. You can put it back in the freezer if it start to thaw. It's easier to cut when frozen. Once you're done, just run some water over it and it will thaw out almost instantly. Slide that up on my filter intake and I can't even tell there's a slow down of water flow. Now no little critters can get into my filter. No need for a rubber band, just drill the hole a little smaller than your intake line's diameter. The other affect of this is it almost polishes the water because the holes are so small. Instead of keeping much filter material in the HOB, I can put other stuff in there and just swish out this sponge every once in a while when it gets nasty or water flow slows. I figure the sponge also makes a great bed for the bacteria to grow. Something else I like in my Cherry tank is they gather on the sponge and eat the bits of stuff that stick to it. It's almost like giving them a little buffet. haha. Oh, and I can make a whole bunch of these for the $3 I paid at Hobby Lobby (actually where I got it). I've used aquarium sealant to glue squares together to make them taller a time or two and that's worked well too. Have fun makeing sponges. Lynn --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <brownp3@...> wrote: > > Harry wrote: "A piece of nylon stocking with rubber bands over the filter intake will keep them out of your filter." > > Does this really work well? I am finding that whenever any of my live plants breaks off a leaf, etc., it goes straight to the filter intake. All of my intakes are always coated with something (especially that nasty Java Moss!). I am also worried about guppy fry being sucked into it. Just wondering what other folks do and if the pantyhose really lets enough through to get everything running good. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27666	From: Carmen H	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?

I don't think they meant a dog, they meant a Labidochromis caeruleus, yellow lab cichlid :-) Carmen > does anyone have a link to the turtle with the dog pic?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27667	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?

LOL... I had to chuckle about "the turtle with the dog pic?" I remember one poster mentioning a turtle with half a yellow lab in it's mouth but I don't think they were talking about a Labrador retriever but rather a yellow lab cichlid. I don't think you have to worry about your RES getting big enough to eat a yellow lab (retriever). I'm not sure how fast they grow but if they are like fish, if you keep them in an undersized tank for too long, they will likely suffer from stunting which can lead to health problems and a premature death so work on a bigger tank... the sooner the better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thtanoyinguy Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: red ear slider tank mates? i think i am just going to leave him alone and just give him some plants. i was thinking about some neon tetras just for colors, but he will probably eat them..so, i'll prob. just leave him be....plus i only have him in a 20 gal. til i can afford bigger...any idea how fast they grow? does anyone have a link to the turtle with the dog pic? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "thtanoyinguy" <thtanoyinguy@...> wrote: > > i got a red ear slider last week and i got his tank all set up and he > has adjusted well. i was just wondering if there were any tank mates > you would suggest. right now it's just my turtle that is only an inch > and a half long, his floating log and a sandy bottom. what else would > you suggest, if anything? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1416 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 5:11 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27668	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question

Thanks a lot Lynn. It just cost me $1,000.00 bail money. When the JoAnn's people saw me sucking on the polyfoam, they called the guys in the white coats to come and get me. I ratted you out to get my bail reduced so they're out looking for you now! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Francis Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Filter Intake Question What I've been doing for fry or cherry shrimp tanks works quite well. I went to JoAnn's/Michaels/Hobby Lobby/etc and bought a square 2" x 14" x 14" of poly foam. It's what you would make seat cushions out of, of course this one would make a very small seat cushion. I just make sure that I get the one that I can blow or suck air through very easily. Every once in a while I get funny looks when people see me sucking foam, but that's life. ;-) For one example, I have an aquaclear HOB filter with an intake about an inch in diameter. So I turned this square on its side and measured 2" over and 4" down. So I ended up with a 4" tall, 2" wide, and 2" deep square of foam. Next I squish it under running water to get it full of water and then stick it in the freezer. The next day I take it out and grab my electric drill with about a 3/4" bit on it. Drill a hole from the top stopping about 1/2" from the bottom. Just to be pretty I take a sharp knife and cut the corner edges off of it to make the edges more round, but you don't have to. You can put it back in the freezer if it start to thaw. It's easier to cut when frozen. Once you're done, just run some water over it and it will thaw out almost instantly. Slide that up on my filter intake and I can't even tell there's a slow down of water flow. Now no little critters can get into my filter. No need for a rubber band, just drill the hole a little smaller than your intake line's diameter. The other affect of this is it almost polishes the water because the holes are so small. Instead of keeping much filter material in the HOB, I can put other stuff in there and just swish out this sponge every once in a while when it gets nasty or water flow slows. I figure the sponge also makes a great bed for the bacteria to grow. Something else I like in my Cherry tank is they gather on the sponge and eat the bits of stuff that stick to it. It's almost like giving them a little buffet. haha. Oh, and I can make a whole bunch of these for the $3 I paid at Hobby Lobby (actually where I got it). I've used aquarium sealant to glue squares together to make them taller a time or two and that's worked well too. Have fun makeing sponges. Lynn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Paula Brown" <brownp3@...> wrote: > > Harry wrote: "A piece of nylon stocking with rubber bands over the filter intake will keep them out of your filter." > > Does this really work well? I am finding that whenever any of my live plants breaks off a leaf, etc., it goes straight to the filter intake. All of my intakes are always coated with something (especially that nasty Java Moss!). I am also worried about guppy fry being sucked into it. Just wondering what other folks do and if the pantyhose really lets enough through to get everything running good. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1416 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 5:11 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27669	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: selver arowana baby

http://fish.mongabay.com/osteoglossidae.htm Several profiles on this page so read them all to get lots of hints on what to feed them. I hope you know these fish grow to over three feet long and up to five feet long and need BIG.. no not BIG.. HUGE, GIGANTIC, ENORMOUS sized tanks! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nice6669 Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 4:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] selver arowana baby what do you guys think i should feed it i still has a small egg sack No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1416 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 5:11 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27670	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: selver arowana baby

Yea they're illegal to sell in my state because people were releasing them into our river and it enialated the rivers ecosystem! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 20:06:40 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] selver arowana baby http://fish.mongabay.com/osteoglossidae.htm Several profiles on this page so read them all to get lots of hints on what to feed them. I hope you know these fish grow to over three feet long and up to five feet long and need BIG.. no not BIG.. HUGE, GIGANTIC, ENORMOUS sized tanks! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nice6669 Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 4:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] selver arowana baby what do you guys think i should feed it i still has a small egg sack No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1416 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 5:11 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27671	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question

ROTFL!!! I guess I'll have to send my wife to do my dirty work at JoAnns. No, wait, she wouldn't get out of there for less than $1000. I may be better off taking my chances. ;-) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Thanks a lot Lynn. > > It just cost me $1,000.00 bail money. When the JoAnn's people saw me > sucking on the polyfoam, they called the guys in the white coats to come and > get me. I ratted you out to get my bail reduced so they're out looking for > you now! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lynn Francis > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Filter Intake Question > > What I've been doing for fry or cherry shrimp tanks works quite well. I went > to JoAnn's/Michaels/Hobby Lobby/etc and bought a square 2" x 14" x 14" of > poly foam. It's what you would make seat cushions out of, of course this one > would make a very small seat cushion. I just make sure that I get the one > that I can blow or suck air through very easily. Every once in a while I get > funny looks when people see me sucking foam, but that's life. ;-) > > For one example, I have an aquaclear HOB filter with an intake about an inch > in diameter. So I turned this square on its side and measured 2" over and 4" > down. So I ended up with a 4" tall, 2" wide, and 2" deep square of foam. > > Next I squish it under running water to get it full of water and then stick > it in the freezer. The next day I take it out and grab my electric drill > with about a 3/4" bit on it. Drill a hole from the top stopping about 1/2" > from the bottom. Just to be pretty I take a sharp knife and cut the corner > edges off of it to make the edges more round, but you don't have to. You can > put it back in the freezer if it start to thaw. It's easier to cut when > frozen. Once you're done, just run some water over it and it will thaw out > almost instantly. > > Slide that up on my filter intake and I can't even tell there's a slow down > of water flow. Now no little critters can get into my filter. No need for a > rubber band, just drill the hole a little smaller than your intake line's > diameter. > > The other affect of this is it almost polishes the water because the holes > are so small. Instead of keeping much filter material in the HOB, I can put > other stuff in there and just swish out this sponge every once in a while > when it gets nasty or water flow slows. I figure the sponge also makes a > great bed for the bacteria to grow. > > Something else I like in my Cherry tank is they gather on the sponge and eat > the bits of stuff that stick to it. It's almost like giving them a little > buffet. haha. > > Oh, and I can make a whole bunch of these for the $3 I paid at Hobby Lobby > (actually where I got it). I've used aquarium sealant to glue squares > together to make them taller a time or two and that's worked well too. > > Have fun makeing sponges. > Lynn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Paula Brown" <brownp3@> wrote: > > > > Harry wrote: "A piece of nylon stocking with rubber bands over the > filter intake will keep them out of your filter." > > > > Does this really work well? I am finding that whenever any of my > live plants breaks off a leaf, etc., it goes straight to the filter intake. > All of my intakes are always coated with something (especially that nasty > Java Moss!). I am also worried about guppy fry being sucked into it. Just > wondering what other folks do and if the pantyhose really lets enough > through to get everything running good. > > > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1416 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 > 5:11 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27672	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fancy Goldfish

Fancy, as in body and fin modifications, goldfish would not make good candidates for overwintering in a pond. Fancy, as in strictly coloration, may make a better candidate for overwintering. Normal, meaning no body, fin, scale, or color variations beyond normal, may make better candidates. None is an ideal candidate for overwintering. I am not surprised that the gambusia died over the winter. While they are hardy in a temperate body of water, they do not have a low temperature range as one may encounter in Toledo, Ohio. The purpose of a heater in a pond over the winter is to keep a hole open in the ice for gaseous exchange, not to heat the pond. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fancy Goldfish We have an inground pond approximately 260 gallons, maybe 2.5 foot deep. This pond is located in Toledo, Ohio. Right now it only has three feeder goldfish around 2 inches each from last summer along with some water hyacinths and some parrot's feather. The temperature of the water is just now over 50 degrees so we are starting to feed the fish. Can fancy goldfish (very young ones) survive over the winter in a pond (we do keep a floating stock tank heater on it after the water dips below 50 degrees)? We have a friend with a much larger pond that will take any fish that we see are getting too big for the pond (which will eventually happen, I am sure), but I don't want to add something that will need to be taken out within a year or two. I am really surprised at how very little the feeder goldfish (dang, I hate calling them that!) grew in the year now that we have had them in the pond. Maybe 1 inch in a year. There is nothing else in the pond and it is protected from outside invaders except any birds of course (and I do think we lost some fish to the birds). We added 30 mosquito fish to it last spring courtesy of the co-op extension, but none of them survived the winter, even with the stock pond heater. Paula in Monroe, Michigan (who will be testing my tanks tonight so that I can answer Lenny's questions about my wanting Kuhli Loaches)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27673	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Question, problem with my pond.

Sounds like the nitrogen cycle has not yet kicked in. Since you have not had a change with the two massive water changes, I'd suspect that there are chloramines in your water for treatment, and whatever you are using to break the ammonia/chlorine bond is not neutralizing the ammonia. Perhaps it is and you need to change from the Nesslar's reagent to the salicylate reagent to get an accurate reading. You do not mention water changes for the other ponds, and if you did do that, I think you may not have changed enough to make a difference in your testing. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ipartyforfun Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question, problem with my pond. I am having a major ammonia problem with one of my ponds. It is not your typical pond, it is a 650 gallon blue poly tank, like the ones koi are in for shows. It is bare bottom, with a 900 gallon pump, and 1600 gallon filter with UV light. 4 fish in it. The pond co says I should be able to put more in it than that. We have done a 75% water change twice in the past week and a half, as recommended by a friend who owns a pond company. Ph is 7.0, Nitrates and Nitrites are all at the lowest on the test chart. I am using API test kits, drops not strips. Ammonia is around 2.0. The pond co did tests on the water, got the same readings as mine, including the ammonia, so my tests are not bad. There is no run off, the tank is half in the ground, half out. No trees, no dogs to pee in it. They are as baffled as am I. We have 2 other ponds, and the results are all great. Same water, etc. Tested our tap water and the ammonia level is at 0. I contacted the company for the poly tank and they say nothing could be leeching from the tank, which is our only last assumption. Any suggestions? Thanks for your time. Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27674	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fancy Goldfish

A mini-pond like yours would not be a good place to try and over-winter fish in Ohio. While the fish might survive, it will be very stressful on them and they would be more likely to have many health issues. Fancy goldfish are already more prone to health issues due to all of the inbreeding that took place to cause the mutations that are now called "Fancy". I actually have some fancies and I think they are great fish but if you study the history and how they came about, it's not something I would probably have supported when it was taking place. I got my first fancies before I knew what took place to create these mutations. The Chinese and Japanese and I'm sure some Americans are still doing serious amounts of inbreeding to create new genetic defects that they can call "fancy" but all of these things take a toll on the quality of life for the goldfish. It's why fancy goldfish struggle to live 10-20 years while common goldfish live well over 20 years and the record is over 40 years. I think fancy goldfish are better off in a more controlled and stable environment but they could do OK in your pond during the summer and you could over-winter them in a kiddie pool in your garage or basement as long as the temp doesn't get down below the 50's... and if you can keep it in the 60's that would be even better for them. Ooops.. sorry.. went off on a tangent there. Now back to your pond. Oh well, I see \\Steve// answered your post and I agree with what he says. Your common goldfish (aka feeders) might be able to overwinter but your pond isn't very deep. It would probably be better if it was 3-4' deep. Is the pond in ground or above ground? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fancy Goldfish We have an inground pond approximately 260 gallons, maybe 2.5 foot deep. This pond is located in Toledo, Ohio. Right now it only has three feeder goldfish around 2 inches each from last summer along with some water hyacinths and some parrot's feather. The temperature of the water is just now over 50 degrees so we are starting to feed the fish. Can fancy goldfish (very young ones) survive over the winter in a pond (we do keep a floating stock tank heater on it after the water dips below 50 degrees)? We have a friend with a much larger pond that will take any fish that we see are getting too big for the pond (which will eventually happen, I am sure), but I don't want to add something that will need to be taken out within a year or two. I am really surprised at how very little the feeder goldfish (dang, I hate calling them that!) grew in the year now that we have had them in the pond. Maybe 1 inch in a year. There is nothing else in the pond and it is protected from outside invaders except any birds of course (and I do think we lost some fish to the birds). We added 30 mosquito fish to it last spring courtesy of the co-op extension, but none of them survived the winter, even with the stock pond heater. Paula in Monroe, Michigan (who will be testing my tanks tonight so that I can answer Lenny's questions about my wanting Kuhli Loaches) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1416 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 5:11 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1416 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 5:11 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27675	From: mathhaven	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

For what it's worth, the original 29 gallon in question has the dimensions Lenny described - 30lx12dx17h. I tried tapping the glass, but I got no reaction whatsoever. Not too surprising, as they share a room with a six year old and a two year old. They all do seem pretty comfortable, but I'm thinking of filling out one of the schools to see if it changes their behavior. My inclination is to get two more Diamond Tetras, as they were the original inhabitants, and they're pretty and calm. Our Serpae Tetras have been wonderful, but I read (online, and probably unreliably) of a couple cases of Serpae schools getting more aggressive than smaller groups, and most online sources say that the Cherry Barbs aren't going to school anyway. At this point, my LFS doesn't have any more Diamonds, so it's going to have to wait anyway. On a different topic (but another current thread), my wife's 10 gallon (Molly) tank got some snails when I introduced some new plants. Before I realized that they were going to be a problem, I transferred a dozen or so into my daughter's tank (currently the 29 gallon, but at the time an overstocked ten gallon). They were all devoured with a day or so. At the time, the tank had the Diamonds (3, 2 of the current ones), the Serpaes, 3 ADF's and a small (common, I think) Pleco. I don't know who ate them, but I suspected that it was the Diamond Tetra who passed away shortly thereafter (as a result?), but that's purely speculation on my part. The snails are still a problem in the 10 gallon Molly tank (kept brackish), and I clear some out by hand every couple weeks, but they never took to the Tetra tank. I'm not sure what it all means, but I thought I'd put it out there. - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Sissy Sathre" <ssathre@...> wrote: > > Yes Donna, I did forget about the 20 Long! not to worrie you and Lenny are > perfectly correct! And I shall say no more. > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysissy.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 6:55 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > > 20 long is 30" x 12" right? > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Sissy Sathre > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 1:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > All the 29 gallon tank I have sold are not the same footprint as a 20 gallon > > .I sale All glass, oceanic and perfecto, they are all 12" x 30" footprint, > so I dont know what Lenny is talking about , I have never seen a 29 in a > 12"x 24" footprint. There is a 37 gallon in a 29's footprint. But no 29's in > > 12x24"footprint. > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysissy.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:11 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > > I definitely wouldn't advise overstocking the tank. Most 29G's are tall > tanks based on a 20G footprint so they have the same surface area as the > smaller 20G tank so they are better off being under stocked anyhow. > > You didn't say whether any of the tetras are schooling with each other right > now... are they? Oops... I just re-read your original post and you said the > Serpae's and Diamond's sometimes school together. If the fish are schooling > or at least semi-schooling, that helps relieve any stress issues related to > schooling fish not being in schools. Often times, even schooling fish will > not school when they feel completely comfortable in their environment. Do > not do this often but sometimes a tap on the glass will startle them and > they'll get into schooling formation as their instincts tell them to do. If > they do this, then you may be OK with the 1/2 schools of those two and then > fill out the Cherry Barbs. > > The other thing to think about is whether it is worth it to risk introducing > a new pathogen into your tank simply to try and fill out a school > completely. Do you have a separate tank to use as a Q-tank? > > Your other option would be to check with an LFS to see if they'd let you > trade in one of your partial schools if you agreed to buy the fish you need > to fill out the other schools. With this option, you could go up to seven > of each of the 2" tetras giving you bigger schools and some leeway of still > having 5 or 6 fish schools as any of the fish die off. > > Last but not least, you could get rid of the wife. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27676	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

Chris, I'm hoping you just mis-typed a little when you said the Molly tank is brackish. Brackish is much saltier than what mollys should be in. The general rule is that mollys and other livebearers are actually freshwater fish but that they tolerate a little salt in their tanks but not up to the level of brackish which could be 50/50 salt/fresh water. How much salt (teaspoons per gallon) are you adding to the Molly tank? As far as the snails... they may be thriving in one tank over another based on the availability of food. They are opportunistic breeders and will breed a lot if there is plenty of food but will slow down on breeding if there is not much food for them. If there are breeding like crazy in one tank, that means someone is over feeding the fish in that tank or not vacuuming the gravel enough. There could be other reasons but those are the main two for snail problems. As I've said in the past, having a couple of snails in a tank isn't necessarily a bad thing as they will help clean up things and if you see them starting to breed too much, you know you may need to step up your tank maintenance or cut back on feedings. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mathhaven Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank For what it's worth, the original 29 gallon in question has the dimensions Lenny described - 30lx12dx17h. I tried tapping the glass, but I got no reaction whatsoever. Not too surprising, as they share a room with a six year old and a two year old. They all do seem pretty comfortable, but I'm thinking of filling out one of the schools to see if it changes their behavior. My inclination is to get two more Diamond Tetras, as they were the original inhabitants, and they're pretty and calm. Our Serpae Tetras have been wonderful, but I read (online, and probably unreliably) of a couple cases of Serpae schools getting more aggressive than smaller groups, and most online sources say that the Cherry Barbs aren't going to school anyway. At this point, my LFS doesn't have any more Diamonds, so it's going to have to wait anyway. On a different topic (but another current thread), my wife's 10 gallon (Molly) tank got some snails when I introduced some new plants. Before I realized that they were going to be a problem, I transferred a dozen or so into my daughter's tank (currently the 29 gallon, but at the time an overstocked ten gallon). They were all devoured with a day or so. At the time, the tank had the Diamonds (3, 2 of the current ones), the Serpaes, 3 ADF's and a small (common, I think) Pleco. I don't know who ate them, but I suspected that it was the Diamond Tetra who passed away shortly thereafter (as a result?), but that's purely speculation on my part. The snails are still a problem in the 10 gallon Molly tank (kept brackish), and I clear some out by hand every couple weeks, but they never took to the Tetra tank. I'm not sure what it all means, but I thought I'd put it out there. - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Sissy Sathre" <ssathre@...> wrote: > > Yes Donna, I did forget about the 20 Long! not to worrie you and Lenny > are perfectly correct! And I shall say no more. > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysissy.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 6:55 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > > 20 long is 30" x 12" right? > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 1:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > All the 29 gallon tank I have sold are not the same footprint as a 20 > gallon > > .I sale All glass, oceanic and perfecto, they are all 12" x 30" > footprint, so I dont know what Lenny is talking about , I have never > seen a 29 in a 12"x 24" footprint. There is a 37 gallon in a 29's > footprint. But no 29's in > > 12x24"footprint. > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysissy.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:11 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > > I definitely wouldn't advise overstocking the tank. Most 29G's are > tall tanks based on a 20G footprint so they have the same surface area > as the smaller 20G tank so they are better off being under stocked anyhow. > > You didn't say whether any of the tetras are schooling with each other > right now... are they? Oops... I just re-read your original post and > you said the Serpae's and Diamond's sometimes school together. If the > fish are schooling or at least semi-schooling, that helps relieve any > stress issues related to schooling fish not being in schools. Often > times, even schooling fish will not school when they feel completely > comfortable in their environment. Do not do this often but sometimes a > tap on the glass will startle them and they'll get into schooling > formation as their instincts tell them to do. If they do this, then > you may be OK with the 1/2 schools of those two and then fill out the Cherry Barbs. > > The other thing to think about is whether it is worth it to risk > introducing a new pathogen into your tank simply to try and fill out a > school completely. Do you have a separate tank to use as a Q-tank? > > Your other option would be to check with an LFS to see if they'd let > you trade in one of your partial schools if you agreed to buy the fish > you need to fill out the other schools. With this option, you could go > up to seven of each of the 2" tetras giving you bigger schools and > some leeway of still having 5 or 6 fish schools as any of the fish die off. > > Last but not least, you could get rid of the wife. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1416 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 5:11 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1416 - Release Date: 5/5/2008 5:11 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27677	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

Lenny, Some mollies are, indeed brackish, while others have never seen a coastal plain or the ocean. The addition of salt to livebearer tanks is a common practice, and is used mainly to bring up, or imitate to an extent, the harder water most of these species originate in. However, many of those you now see in stores are far removed from their origins, both in water quality and breeding, so it probably does not matter the kind of water they are kept in. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 12:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank Chris, I'm hoping you just mis-typed a little when you said the Molly tank is brackish. Brackish is much saltier than what mollys should be in. The general rule is that mollys and other livebearers are actually freshwater fish but that they tolerate a little salt in their tanks but not up to the level of brackish which could be 50/50 salt/fresh water. How much salt (teaspoons per gallon) are you adding to the Molly tank? As far as the snails... they may be thriving in one tank over another based on the availability of food. They are opportunistic breeders and will breed a lot if there is plenty of food but will slow down on breeding if there is not much food for them. If there are breeding like crazy in one tank, that means someone is over feeding the fish in that tank or not vacuuming the gravel enough. There could be other reasons but those are the main two for snail problems. As I've said in the past, having a couple of snails in a tank isn't necessarily a bad thing as they will help clean up things and if you see them starting to breed too much, you know you may need to step up your tank maintenance or cut back on feedings. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mathhaven Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank For what it's worth, the original 29 gallon in question has the dimensions Lenny described - 30lx12dx17h. I tried tapping the glass, but I got no reaction whatsoever. Not too surprising, as they share a room with a six year old and a two year old. They all do seem pretty comfortable, but I'm thinking of filling out one of the schools to see if it changes their behavior. My inclination is to get two more Diamond Tetras, as they were the original inhabitants, and they're pretty and calm. Our Serpae Tetras have been wonderful, but I read (online, and probably unreliably) of a couple cases of Serpae schools getting more aggressive than smaller groups, and most online sources say that the Cherry Barbs aren't going to school anyway. At this point, my LFS doesn't have any more Diamonds, so it's going to have to wait anyway. On a different topic (but another current thread), my wife's 10 gallon (Molly) tank got some snails when I introduced some new plants. Before I realized that they were going to be a problem, I transferred a dozen or so into my daughter's tank (currently the 29 gallon, but at the time an overstocked ten gallon). They were all devoured with a day or so. At the time, the tank had the Diamonds (3, 2 of the current ones), the Serpaes, 3 ADF's and a small (common, I think) Pleco. I don't know who ate them, but I suspected that it was the Diamond Tetra who passed away shortly thereafter (as a result?), but that's purely speculation on my part. The snails are still a problem in the 10 gallon Molly tank (kept brackish), and I clear some out by hand every couple weeks, but they never took to the Tetra tank. I'm not sure what it all means, but I thought I'd put it out there. - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Sissy Sathre" <ssathre@...> wrote: > > Yes Donna, I did forget about the 20 Long! not to worrie you and Lenny > are perfectly correct! And I shall say no more. > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysissy.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 6:55 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > > 20 long is 30" x 12" right? > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sissy Sathre > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 1:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > All the 29 gallon tank I have sold are not the same footprint as a 20 > gallon > > .I sale All glass, oceanic and perfecto, they are all 12" x 30" > footprint, so I dont know what Lenny is talking about , I have never > seen a 29 in a 12"x 24" footprint. There is a 37 gallon in a 29's > footprint. But no 29's in > > 12x24"footprint. > Sissy Sathre > DBA Aquariums By Sissy > www.aquariumsbysissy.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:11 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > > I definitely wouldn't advise overstocking the tank. Most 29G's are > tall tanks based on a 20G footprint so they have the same surface area > as the smaller 20G tank so they are better off being under stocked anyhow. > > You didn't say whether any of the tetras are schooling with each other > right now... are they? Oops... I just re-read your original post and > you said the Serpae's and Diamond's sometimes school together. If the > fish are schooling or at least semi-schooling, that helps relieve any > stress issues related to schooling fish not being in schools. Often > times, even schooling fish will not school when they feel completely > comfortable in their environment. Do not do this often but sometimes a > tap on the glass will startle them and they'll get into schooling > formation as their instincts tell them to do. If they do this, then > you may be OK with the 1/2 schools of those two and then fill out the Cherry Barbs. > > The other thing to think about is whether it is worth it to risk > introducing a new pathogen into your tank simply to try and fill out a > school completely. Do you have a separate tank to use as a Q-tank? > > Your other option would be to check with an LFS to see if they'd let > you trade in one of your partial schools if you agreed to buy the fish > you need to fill out the other schools. With this option, you could go > up to seven of each of the 2" tetras giving you bigger schools and > some leeway of still having 5 or 6 fish schools as any of the fish die off. > > Last but not least, you could get rid of the wife. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27678	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Kuhli Loaches

I have one Kuhli Loach in my 20 G tank. (I had two of them, one disappeared several weeks ago). He always hides beneath the drift wood, and feeds not farther than one inch away from it during the day. Yet, he doesn't seem to be bothered by the THREE (2") clown loaches who also hide behind the drift wood almost all the time, the Kuhli just wanders around them confidently, and growing really fast. I caught him leaving his hiding place to the other corners during night time, and sometimes he makes several turn overs on the front side of the tank in the morning, then goes back to hide. He's really cute and peaceful. I don't know if this would help with your question. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paula Brown" <brownp3@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:31 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Kuhli Loaches The more I read about these guys, the more I want to get a few for one of my planted tanks (either the 29 or the 55). Are they bottom feeders? I have nuisance snails that they might find enjoyable (the small ones at least - not the MTS kind). Would my having a higher Ph (around 7.6 to 7.8) be bothersome for them though? Also, would they be bothered by the constant motion of cory cats on the bottom with them (though two of my Juli cory's hang in the middle of the tank)? Paula in Monroe, Michigan ------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27679	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Need to know how to use antibiotics

Didn't really get any answers to this, trying again. I have tetras with columnaris, and the instructions that come with the antibiotics are as clear as mud. Using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals bifuran. Also picked up some maracyn1 and maracyn2. Haven't actually used any of this in the tank. Have Penguin filter with biowheel, still trying to cycle it. Ammonia and nitrite levels are higher; nitrite higher than ammonia, Nitrates 5.0. don't want to kill the biofilter. Which of these drugs will harm the biofilter? Getting completely different instructions. Instructions with bifuran say to completely change water each day and add fresh dose each day. Exactly how much water do I really change each day, and how much bifuran do I really add each day? What about with maracyn and maracyn 2? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27680	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Filtration Challenge

Steve, and all who can reply. I have several questions in mind regarding your reply. 1) I searched about the 'sponge filter' on the internet, and finally found what it looks like. I like how small it is, but I can't understand what source of food can it provide for the fry (!), 2) what are the advantages of HOB filter against internal power filter, other than making more space for the fish? By the way, I've been inquiring about those HOB filters, and found two kinds, one of them is a "pour out" model, with a sponge inside it, and activated coal layer trapped in a strong flet 'bag'. The other kind is tall (Brand: Jet), it can be stuck on the back of the tank, and has a long pipe than goes inside horizontally. I don't know yet what type of filteration does it contain. What would you recommend ? 3) I'll remove the polyster layer of the UGF asap. As for siphoning the mulm under the plate, is it necessary? doesn't the powerful power head (1500 L/H) do that work? and if it's still necessary, how can I do the siphoning if the UG plate is shut down from all sides and all covered with gravel, with no way out other than the power head opening? Thanks for your kindness Steve! Have a nice day Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 5:05 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filtration Challenge Noura, Often it is called glass wool, which is a throwback to earlier days when it was actually fiberglass, and called glass wool. Today, it is polyester, for the most part. With the layer of glass wool between the gravel and the UGF (UnderGravel Filter), the health of your filter becomes problematic. Eventually, that layer will become clogged, and there is no good way to clean it without completely removing the substrate and replacing it. The failure of this layer will probably take some time to be discovered, which will not be good for your fish. When it is convenient, you should remove this glass wool from your set up. After this has been done, you will need to occasionally put a tube down under your UGF to siphon off the mulm that will collect there. When you change the way this filter works, you are likely to suffer a mini-cycle from the loss of nitrifying bacteria, but keeping the existing gravel damp will definitely help minimize this. For your other filter, I'd replace it with an external hang off the back (HOB or HOT (Hang Off the Tank)) that uses foam blocks as the filter media. Use of granular activated carbon (the coal you refer to) or GAC, is only recommended in certain situations for removing such as medications or other dissolved organic carbons (DOC). For your two gallon, I'd switch you over to a sponge filter, which will do all your current bubble up does, and it will also provide a food source for your fry. The last two suggestions will slightly increase the volume of water in your tanks, which is very important for the way you are stuffing fish in those tanks. Look around your home with a bit of imagination, and I am sure you will find space for more tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 4:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filtration Challenge Hi, I was reading some articles in http://fish.mongabay.com "Thanks Lenny". And found many types of filtration that I didn't know anything about. Again, I remind you that I live in middle east, and there isn't a good fishkeeping culture here. Anyway, I'll describe the filtration system in my 20G community tank, I'll really appreciate if you take a look and tell me what you think of it. 1) Under-gravel filter , attached to a power head (18 W, 1500 Liters/hour), and has an external air tube to distribute room air into the water all while filtering the water. The powerhead DOESN'T contain sponge, wool or anything. On the plastic plate of the filter, under the gravel, there's a layer of wool (I don't know if you call it glass cotton) between the plate and the gravel. The gravel is 1" thick in the front and 2" in the back. There are 5 medium sized live plants in the tank. I heard that this type of filtering serves as a biological filteration, don't know about that. 2) Internal (submersible) power filter, contains rubber net to catch large debris, and inside it there's wool (glass cotton). Doesn't contain activated coal or anything. In my OTHER 2 G small tank (used for raising guppy fry), there's only an Internal Box Filter, contains gravel and a thick layer of glass cotton, and attached to a weak air pump. So what do you think of my tank's filteration, considering the poor fish equipments and supplies here?! I'll be glad to read all of your opinions Noura ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27682	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: on moringa

The last time I checked, I didn't see fish in the wild eating moringa powder. I didn't even know what it was so I did a quick Google and it's being marketed as some kind of product like green tea. http://portalmarket.com/moringatree.html I guess if the tree grows on the banks of rivers and the little kernals fall into the water, you could watch to see if fish eat the kernals or leaves. I'm sure my piggy goldfish would at least try them if they fell in the water but I'm not so sure about most tropical fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Camil Chua Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] on moringa greetings, would moringa powder in granules form be a good feed for fish? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1418 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 5:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27683	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Need to know how to use antibiotics

It's not good to mix medicines unless the directions on the meds say it's OK like with the Maracyn I and II. I know API tests their medications and say they are OK to use with each other but when you start mixing brands, then you could be playing with fire. Unless otherwise advised by an experienced fish keeper, it would be best to follow the directions on the packaging. There are certain instances where our experience has taught us how to better use certain meds compared to their instructions with certain fish but in general, follow the manufacturers directions. If some store clerk is giving you different instructions, ask them if they will guarantee their advice by putting it in writing? They'll probably tuck their tails and run when you ask them to put it in writing. You kind of need to decide on who you are going to listen to and then follow their advice. Getting advice from several different conflicting sources is not going to make you a better fish keeper. Find a source that you trust and then stick with that source rather than asking the same questions over and over in different forums. I asked you several posts ago about why you only used 1/3rd of your initial Bio-Spira treatment and never heard back. Bio-Spira is designed to use the entire package in the new tank so if you only used 1/3rd, that could be why you are having cycling issues... or it could be that your source of Bio-Spira allowed the package to not stay chilled which would ruin it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need to know how to use antibiotics Didn't really get any answers to this, trying again. I have tetras with columnaris, and the instructions that come with the antibiotics are as clear as mud. Using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals bifuran. Also picked up some maracyn1 and maracyn2. Haven't actually used any of this in the tank. Have Penguin filter with biowheel, still trying to cycle it. Ammonia and nitrite levels are higher; nitrite higher than ammonia, Nitrates 5.0. don't want to kill the biofilter. Which of these drugs will harm the biofilter? Getting completely different instructions. Instructions with bifuran say to completely change water each day and add fresh dose each day. Exactly how much water do I really change each day, and how much bifuran do I really add each day? What about with maracyn and maracyn 2? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1418 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 5:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27684	From: joe t	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Lenny, I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are in a BUSINESS. A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. They think they are doing something wonderful because the water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. ..............and the beat goes on. joe t --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27685	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Moving Questions

I will be moving towards the end of the month and I have a few questions regarding the move. I have tap water here, the new place has well water. I have no idea what the well water tests like and I won't know until I get there. I have bettas, which I plan to transport in their little cups. I was thinking of bringing a few gallon jugs of treated tapwater with me so I have something to change their water with before I can get the tank set back up and the well water tested. I also have plants to move. Are these more or less sensitive to water parameters? Do you suppose I'd be able to set up the new tank with the well water, plants and all and then worry about testing, or should I make sure the water tests good before adding the plants? Which brings me to another question: How long will the plants last wrapped in wet papertowels and in bags? Thanks!! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27686	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?

i had a red ear slider once that was just a hatchling in a 29 gallon with some kuhli loaches, platties, and various catfish and tetras. she grew from less than 1 inch to 5 inches in 5 months. i had a special reptile light for basking and a fake log thing where she could climb out and completely dry out. she eventually ate all the fish that would fit in her mouth. it would havebeen much better to have had another turtle for a tankmate but this one was a rescue so i did the best i could. samantha

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27687	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: red ear slider tank mates?

I've had my slider for 22 years now. You only put fish in with them when you want to give them a treat. For buddies, the best bet is another aquatic turtle (preferably not something like a map, which is too shy and will likely not get enough food.) They enjoy stacking out of the water, but honestly, seem to prefer things like strawberries and grapes to friends. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, rosette55@... wrote: > > i had a red ear slider once that was just a hatchling in a 29 gallon > with some kuhli loaches, platties, and various catfish and tetras. she > grew from less than 1 inch to 5 inches in 5 months. i had a special > reptile light for basking and a fake log thing where she could climb out > and completely dry out. she eventually ate all the fish that would fit > in her mouth. it would havebeen much better to have had another turtle > for a tankmate but this one was a rescue so i did the best i could. > samantha >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27688	From: bmp	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Moderators

Hi Steve, I went to the group's page on yahoogroups where there is typically a section called "Members." When that section is activated, there will be a list of all members and icons to indicate who is owner and who are moderators. Unfortunately, this group's members section is not being used so I can't easily find out for myself. Re-reading your note and considering that no other moderator replied, I am wondering if maybe it is meant to be a secret who the moderators are. Please tell me what is going on. Why have secret moderators? Please tell me. Beverly --- On Mon, 5/5/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Moderators > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, May 5, 2008, 8:58 PM > I am given to understand that there are 9 moderators for > this group. I > don't know if it is a good thing or a bad thing to know > who the > moderators are. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bmp > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Moderators > > Hi, > > With all the talk of a better moderated list, I wonder who > are the > moderators here? I know Mike is but I wonder if there are > others? > > Thanks, > Beverly > > > Peace, please! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27689	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Kuhli Loaches

We'll, I guess I have changed my mind about getting some Kuhli's - I like visible fish and the more I am reading on them, it sounds as though they like to hide (at least most of them). Lenny got me thinking about the pH of my tap water but I didn't have time last night to get out my API kit and test the tap water vs. the planted 29 gallon with the 7.6 to 7.8 readings. My goal is to do that tonight and then do PWC on the downstairs tanks. I will post if there is a noticable difference. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27690	From: Chris	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are in a BUSINESS. > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. They think they are doing something wonderful because the water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > joe t > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27691	From: harry perry	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Moderators/To Beverly and all

There are 9 moderators and one owner of this group. My name is Harry I'm one of the moderators. I don't know the names of all the moderators. Just the owner. That's all I need to know. It is not a secret or a "conspiracy" it's simply a non-issue. Moderators are volunteers. They have regular jobs and are taking care of families and paying bills just like everyone else. It takes time to run a group this big. You would not believe the crap we see. Some moderators might not want to be known maybe they just want to do their job and try to keep the group running smoothly. It might be just a matter of available time. We are in touch with the owner on a regular basis and we have made some changes to insure the disruptions of the past don't happen again. Will there be slip ups?. Probably, since we are all human If anyone does have a concern the proper avenue is to send your concern to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com by sending your message here it will reach all 9 moderators and the owner. In the future posts to the group voicing a complaint will be deleted because of the disruption it causes and because you have an open avenue all the way to the top. There are over 2000 members here. It is virtually impossible to please everyone but we all will do our best to make this group a pleasant experience. Harry, a moderator. bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: Hi Steve, I went to the group's page on yahoogroups where there is typically a section called "Members." When that section is activated, there will be a list of all members and icons to indicate who is owner and who are moderators. Unfortunately, this group's members section is not being used so I can't easily find out for myself. Re-reading your note and considering that no other moderator replied, I am wondering if maybe it is meant to be a secret who the moderators are. Please tell me what is going on. Why have secret moderators? Please tell me. Beverly --- On Mon, 5/5/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Moderators > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, May 5, 2008, 8:58 PM > I am given to understand that there are 9 moderators for > this group. I > don't know if it is a good thing or a bad thing to know > who the > moderators are. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bmp > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Moderators > > Hi, > > With all the talk of a better moderated list, I wonder who > are the > moderators here? I know Mike is but I wonder if there are > others? > > Thanks, > Beverly > > > Peace, please! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27692	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Moderators

Hi Beverly, It is certainly no secret. Aaron posted the moderators at one time. I will have to dig into the archives to find that one. -Mike Re-reading your note and considering that no other moderator replied, I am wondering if maybe it is meant to be a secret who the moderators are. Please tell me what is going on. Why have secret moderators? Please tell me. Beverly -----Original Message----- From: bmp <bmpardue@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 7:05 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Moderators Hi Steve, I went to the group's page on yahoogroups where there is typically a section called "Members." When that section is activated, there will be a list of all members and icons to indicate who is owner and who are moderators. Unfortunately, this group's members section is not being used so I can't easily find out for myself. Re-reading your note and considering that no other moderator replied, I am wondering if maybe it is meant to be a secret who the moderators are. Please tell me what is going on. Why have secret moderators? Please tell me. Beverly --- On Mon, 5/5/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Moderators > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, May 5, 2008, 8:58 PM > I am given to understand that there are 9 moderators for > this group. I > don't know if it is a good thing or a bad thing to know > who the > moderators are. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bmp > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Moderators > > Hi, > > With all the talk of a better moderated list, I wonder who > are the > moderators here? I know Mike is but I wonder if there are > others? > > Thanks, > Beverly > > > Peace, please! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27693	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Chris, As for treating water I use ChlorAmX. The powder which is used to make things like Amquel. Buying it in powder form allows me to buy it in bulk and I can treat thousands and thousands of gallons of water. If I did not use the ChlorAmX I would use Amquel, but I would skip Amquel+. I just don't need the extra stuff it offers most of the time. I cannot even recall who makes my test kit. Maybe API? Once I am up and running and making regular water changes I almost never test. I don't often salt my tanks and I Never alter the pH with buffers. my 2 cents. -Mike OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 1:30 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are in a BUSINESS. > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. They think they are doing something wonderful because the water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > joe t > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27694	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

That would be Prime or Amquel - and the way I udnerstand it, Prime cotnains a fish conditioner that Prime lacks. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are in a BUSINESS. > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. They think they are doing something wonderful because the water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > joe t > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27695	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Need to know how to use antibiotics

Lenny, the Biospira is really water over the dam at this point. It's ALOT of work to care for those fish, and we were without Internet access for a couple of days, and I've not always answered things that there was not point - and sometimes not one where there was a point. Actually there are alot mroe changes to the tank. But I've learned to ask one thing at a time. No updates until I get this question answered. I have specific instructions from mutlipe sources to use Maracyn and Maracyn 2 together. Specific instructions on the BiFuran say to change the water partly or completely every day and then add another dose. OK, I need to know whether to add a complete dose if I don't change the water completely. I tried answering the company; they didn't want to give me a specific answer either. I also need to know if any of these antibiotics will NOT harm the biofilter, or will harm the biofilter less than the others. Never mind if I set the biofilter up right; there is one, or I wouldn't have nitrites and nitrates in the tank. I want to not kill it if it can be avoided, and if it cant' I need to know exactly what I need to do to compensate. Come on, Lenny, I think you're a nice guy, but if I can't get questions answered, there isn't even a point in posting. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:09 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need to know how to use antibiotics It's not good to mix medicines unless the directions on the meds say it's OK like with the Maracyn I and II. I know API tests their medications and say they are OK to use with each other but when you start mixing brands, then you could be playing with fire. Unless otherwise advised by an experienced fish keeper, it would be best to follow the directions on the packaging. There are certain instances where our experience has taught us how to better use certain meds compared to their instructions with certain fish but in general, follow the manufacturers directions. If some store clerk is giving you different instructions, ask them if they will guarantee their advice by putting it in writing? They'll probably tuck their tails and run when you ask them to put it in writing. You kind of need to decide on who you are going to listen to and then follow their advice. Getting advice from several different conflicting sources is not going to make you a better fish keeper. Find a source that you trust and then stick with that source rather than asking the same questions over and over in different forums. I asked you several posts ago about why you only used 1/3rd of your initial Bio-Spira treatment and never heard back. Bio-Spira is designed to use the entire package in the new tank so if you only used 1/3rd, that could be why you are having cycling issues... or it could be that your source of Bio-Spira allowed the package to not stay chilled which would ruin it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need to know how to use antibiotics Didn't really get any answers to this, trying again. I have tetras with columnaris, and the instructions that come with the antibiotics are as clear as mud. Using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals bifuran. Also picked up some maracyn1 and maracyn2. Haven't actually used any of this in the tank. Have Penguin filter with biowheel, still trying to cycle it. Ammonia and nitrite levels are higher; nitrite higher than ammonia, Nitrates 5.0. don't want to kill the biofilter. Which of these drugs will harm the biofilter? Getting completely different instructions. Instructions with bifuran say to completely change water each day and add fresh dose each day. Exactly how much water do I really change each day, and how much bifuran do I really add each day? What about with maracyn and maracyn 2? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1418 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 5:17 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27696	From: Chris	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > As for treating water I use ChlorAmX. The powder which is used to make things like Amquel. Buying it in powder form allows me to buy it in bulk and I can treat thousands and thousands of gallons of water. If I did not use the ChlorAmX I would use Amquel, but I would skip Amquel+. I just don't need the extra stuff it offers most of the time. > > I cannot even recall who makes my test kit. Maybe API? Once I am up and running and making regular water changes I almost never test. I don't often salt my tanks and I Never alter the pH with buffers. > > my 2 cents. > > -Mike > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) > So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, > Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 1:30 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > > > > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) > So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, > Chris > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are > in a BUSINESS. > > > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the > stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the > more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more > money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. > They think they are doing something wonderful because the > water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also > easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water > change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > > > joe t > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27697	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

I still have some Amquel left from a stock I put in many years ago, but, I will be following the originator of Amquel to HikariUSA and purchase the Ultimate when I next need more water conditioner. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are in a BUSINESS. > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. They think they are doing something wonderful because the water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27698	From: James	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Pleco

Today I came home and noticed he was on his side, but then I flipped him around and he seems to be slow/normal except my male swordtail is pecking at him. What could be going on? The other day he was doing fine. This is my first pleco.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27699	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

I didn't say all Tetra products are bad. I said they give bad advice and have some bad products and most of their hardware type products are on the low end of the quality scale. I think, if I'm not mistaken, Tetra makes a simple dechlor product that handles chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals. I think it's called Aqua Safe. Something simple like that is fine. I wouldn't use any of the other stress-this or slime-that type products from Tetra or anyone else. A simple dechlor product is all most people need to treat their tap water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are in a BUSINESS. > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. They think they are doing something wonderful because the water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > joe t > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1418 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 5:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27700	From: Jerry	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Need to know how to use antibiotics

Dora, Maracyn 1 an 2 WILL kill off your bio filter. I am pretty sure that bifuran will also kill your bio filter, as it's a broad spectrum antibacterial (Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone). I've found such things should only be done in a small QT where you can easily change the volume of water. Learned that the hard way (over and over and over). So, my strategy for treating fish with antibiotics has been to use a 2.5G or 5G tank. I pack it with wisteria and duckweed, put a bight light over it and start the treatment. Assuming a small number of fish in the QT, the plants to a good job of pulling out the ammonia. Hope that helps some, Jerry --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Lenny, the Biospira is really water over the dam at this point. It's ALOT > of work to care for those fish, and we were without Internet access for a > couple of days, and I've not always answered things that there was not > point - and sometimes not one where there was a point. > > Actually there are alot mroe changes to the tank. But I've learned to ask > one thing at a time. No updates until I get this question answered. > > I have specific instructions from mutlipe sources to use Maracyn and Maracyn > 2 together. > > Specific instructions on the BiFuran say to change the water partly or > completely every day and then add another dose. > > OK, I need to know whether to add a complete dose if I don't change the > water completely. I tried answering the company; they didn't want to give > me a specific answer either. > > I also need to know if any of these antibiotics will NOT harm the biofilter, > or will harm the biofilter less than the others. Never mind if I set the > biofilter up right; there is one, or I wouldn't have nitrites and nitrates > in the tank. I want to not kill it if it can be avoided, and if it cant' > I need to know exactly what I need to do to compensate. > > Come on, Lenny, I think you're a nice guy, but if I can't get questions > answered, there isn't even a point in posting. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

I use the API Tap Water Conditioner which is just a simple dechlor/heavy metal treatment. It's much more concentrated than Tetra AquaSafe and most others so it only needs 1ml per 5G or 10G instead of 1ml per 1G like many others. A 16oz bottle of API will treat 9,500G of chlorine water and 2,400G of chloramine water. I was also looking at the PetsMart brand, TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator which also treats heavy metals and it's very concentrated also. It's probably made by API or copied from their formula. An 8oz bottle treats 2,400G of chloramine water. Most dechlors are all based on the same chemical. It's all the additives that you have to check up on more. Search for the MSDS of a product will tell you more about the chemical components of the product. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > As for treating water I use ChlorAmX. The powder which is used to make things like Amquel. Buying it in powder form allows me to buy it in bulk and I can treat thousands and thousands of gallons of water. If I did not use the ChlorAmX I would use Amquel, but I would skip Amquel+. I just don't need the extra stuff it offers most of the time. > > I cannot even recall who makes my test kit. Maybe API? Once I am up and running and making regular water changes I almost never test. I don't often salt my tanks and I Never alter the pH with buffers. > > my 2 cents. > > -Mike > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are > bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 1:30 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > > > > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are > bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , joe t <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are > in a BUSINESS. > > > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the > stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more > fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money > selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. > They think they are doing something wonderful because the water > "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier > to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. > ..............and the beat goes on. > > > > joe t > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1418 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 5:17 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1418 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 5:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27702	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Filtration Challenge

1. all kinds of microorganisms will grow on the sponge filter to eat the detritus captured by the filter, along with your nitrifying bacteria. A broken in sponge filter is good for fry, and other small fish with small mouths as a supplemental source of food. 2. It would depend on the type of HOB you got. In any case you can replace or clean the media without stopping the water flow. I'd point you to the ones that take the foam blocks. You can remove a block and rinse it to clean it in your water change waste water, and return the block to the filter. If you use two blocks, you can alternate them so that each is the first to receive the unfiltered water, if you wish. You can remove one block to place carbon in the filter, if and when needed. For additional biological filtration, many allow the addition of a biowheel, and some are specifically designed for it. You can also change the character of the water flow by raising or lowering the water level slightly. A higher level can give you a good bit of water motion at the surface of the tank, a good way of helping gaseous exchange occur a bit more efficiently. A lower level means that you can directly aerate the water, and cause a quicker, deeper turnover of water at the surface. Some people like the dispersal bar stretching across the tank. They feel it does a better job of water movement and aeration. Me? It is just another piece of equipment to clean regularly, and I have better things to do <g>. 3. As long as you are still getting a good flow of water through the filter, and it appears to be even, I'd not worry about it, so long as you are sure the flow is relatively even over the bed. With the tank up and running, it will be a tough, messy job to remove it, and not totally destroy the community for the time being. If you can see the bottom of the tank (an open stand will allow you to view from beneath), you can see the mulm on the bottom of the tank (given, also, a glass bottom). You would need to remove the power head, feed some airline tubing underneath the filter through the upright tube, and start a siphon. The mulm is inert, but will eventually impede the flow of the water. If you can see from under the tank, you will notice the dispersal pattern of the mulm, which will indicate the areas of high flow vs. areas of low or no flow. This is another job that is not much fun, but it only has to be done relatively infrequently. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filtration Challenge Steve, and all who can reply. I have several questions in mind regarding your reply. 1) I searched about the 'sponge filter' on the internet, and finally found what it looks like. I like how small it is, but I can't understand what source of food can it provide for the fry (!), 2) what are the advantages of HOB filter against internal power filter, other than making more space for the fish? By the way, I've been inquiring about those HOB filters, and found two kinds, one of them is a "pour out" model, with a sponge inside it, and activated coal layer trapped in a strong flet 'bag'. The other kind is tall (Brand: Jet), it can be stuck on the back of the tank, and has a long pipe than goes inside horizontally. I don't know yet what type of filteration does it contain. What would you recommend ? 3) I'll remove the polyster layer of the UGF asap. As for siphoning the mulm under the plate, is it necessary? doesn't the powerful power head (1500 L/H) do that work? and if it's still necessary, how can I do the siphoning if the UG plate is shut down from all sides and all covered with gravel, with no way out other than the power head opening? Thanks for your kindness Steve! Have a nice day Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 5:05 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filtration Challenge Noura, Often it is called glass wool, which is a throwback to earlier days when it was actually fiberglass, and called glass wool. Today, it is polyester, for the most part. With the layer of glass wool between the gravel and the UGF (UnderGravel Filter), the health of your filter becomes problematic. Eventually, that layer will become clogged, and there is no good way to clean it without completely removing the substrate and replacing it. The failure of this layer will probably take some time to be discovered, which will not be good for your fish. When it is convenient, you should remove this glass wool from your set up. After this has been done, you will need to occasionally put a tube down under your UGF to siphon off the mulm that will collect there. When you change the way this filter works, you are likely to suffer a mini-cycle from the loss of nitrifying bacteria, but keeping the existing gravel damp will definitely help minimize this. For your other filter, I'd replace it with an external hang off the back (HOB or HOT (Hang Off the Tank)) that uses foam blocks as the filter media. Use of granular activated carbon (the coal you refer to) or GAC, is only recommended in certain situations for removing such as medications or other dissolved organic carbons (DOC). For your two gallon, I'd switch you over to a sponge filter, which will do all your current bubble up does, and it will also provide a food source for your fry. The last two suggestions will slightly increase the volume of water in your tanks, which is very important for the way you are stuffing fish in those tanks. Look around your home with a bit of imagination, and I am sure you will find space for more tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 4:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filtration Challenge Hi, I was reading some articles in http://fish.mongabay.com "Thanks Lenny". And found many types of filtration that I didn't know anything about. Again, I remind you that I live in middle east, and there isn't a good fishkeeping culture here. Anyway, I'll describe the filtration system in my 20G community tank, I'll really appreciate if you take a look and tell me what you think of it. 1) Under-gravel filter , attached to a power head (18 W, 1500 Liters/hour), and has an external air tube to distribute room air into the water all while filtering the water. The powerhead DOESN'T contain sponge, wool or anything. On the plastic plate of the filter, under the gravel, there's a layer of wool (I don't know if you call it glass cotton) between the plate and the gravel. The gravel is 1" thick in the front and 2" in the back. There are 5 medium sized live plants in the tank. I heard that this type of filtering serves as a biological filteration, don't know about that. 2) Internal (submersible) power filter, contains rubber net to catch large debris, and inside it there's wool (glass cotton). Doesn't contain activated coal or anything. In my OTHER 2 G small tank (used for raising guppy fry), there's only an Internal Box Filter, contains gravel and a thick layer of glass cotton, and attached to a weak air pump. So what do you think of my tank's filteration, considering the poor fish equipments and supplies here?! I'll be glad to read all of your opinions Noura ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27703	From: James	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Pleco

I just found him dead. It was a ten gallon tank and he was 3 inches. I was told by the pet store that would be fine. The amonia level is fine, but I notice the temp went down to 76 from 78, but my danios and swordtails are fine. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jim_d72@...> wrote: > > Today I came home and noticed he was on his side, but then I flipped > him around and he seems to be slow/normal except my male swordtail is > pecking at him. > > What could be going on? > > The other day he was doing fine. This is my first pleco. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27704	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Moderators

I know a few of the moderators, but as I mentioned earlier, I have been given to understand there are 9 all told. If they wish, they can identify themselves, I'll not out them. Some already have identified themselves as moderators. I have learned from experience in other lists that if one is known to be a moderator, a disgruntled member may harass for any real action or perceived slights through a personal address. The anonymity of the Internet leads to this type of behavior. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bmp Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Moderators Hi Steve, I went to the group's page on yahoogroups where there is typically a section called "Members." When that section is activated, there will be a list of all members and icons to indicate who is owner and who are moderators. Unfortunately, this group's members section is not being used so I can't easily find out for myself. Re-reading your note and considering that no other moderator replied, I am wondering if maybe it is meant to be a secret who the moderators are. Please tell me what is going on. Why have secret moderators? Please tell me. Beverly --- On Mon, 5/5/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Moderators > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, May 5, 2008, 8:58 PM > I am given to understand that there are 9 moderators for > this group. I > don't know if it is a good thing or a bad thing to know > who the > moderators are. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bmp > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Moderators > > Hi, > > With all the talk of a better moderated list, I wonder who > are the > moderators here? I know Mike is but I wonder if there are > others? > > Thanks, > Beverly > > > Peace, please! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27705	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Hi Chris, I cannot recall if I got it from eBay or AquaBid. At various times I have seen it on both. Or I may have gotten it from Kensfish.com.  http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html%c2%a0I don't know Ken, but I buy a lot of stuff from hin. I would recommend him. He sells a 1 lb container thatlb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water for $10.95 plus shipping. His online shop is kind of aimed at people that keep fish rooms. When I was running 35 tanks buying things in bulk was essential. Salt makes perfect sense for the Mollies and the platies. I really like the wild type Mollies. I would like to set up and outside pond for them sometime. -Mike Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 5:01 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > As for treating water I use ChlorAmX. The powder which is used to make things like Amquel. Buying it in powder form allows me to buy it in bulk and I can treat thousands and thousands of gallons of water. If I did not use the ChlorAmX I would use Amquel, but I would skip Amquel+. I just don't need the extra stuff it offers most of the time. > > I cannot even recall who makes my test kit. Maybe API? Once I am up and running and making regular water changes I almost never test. I don't often salt my tanks and I Never alter the pH with buffers. > > my 2 cents. > > -Mike > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) > So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, > Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 1:30 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > > > > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) > So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, > Chris > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are > in a BUSINESS. > > > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the > stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the > more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more > money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. > They think they are doing something wonderful because the > water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also > easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water > change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > > > joe t > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27706	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

I too have purchased from Ken. I also happen to know him. He can be trusted. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Hi Chris, I cannot recall if I got it from eBay or AquaBid. At various times I have seen it on both. Or I may have gotten it from Kensfish.com.  http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html%c2%a0I don't know Ken, but I buy a lot of stuff from hin. I would recommend him. He sells a 1 lb container thatlb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water for $10.95 plus shipping. His online shop is kind of aimed at people that keep fish rooms. When I was running 35 tanks buying things in bulk was essential. Salt makes perfect sense for the Mollies and the platies. I really like the wild type Mollies. I would like to set up and outside pond for them sometime. -Mike Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 5:01 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > As for treating water I use ChlorAmX. The powder which is used to make things like Amquel. Buying it in powder form allows me to buy it in bulk and I can treat thousands and thousands of gallons of water. If I did not use the ChlorAmX I would use Amquel, but I would skip Amquel+. I just don't need the extra stuff it offers most of the time. > > I cannot even recall who makes my test kit. Maybe API? Once I am up and running and making regular water changes I almost never test. I don't often salt my tanks and I Never alter the pH with buffers. > > my 2 cents. > > -Mike > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) > So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, > Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 1:30 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > > > > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) > So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, > Chris > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are > in a BUSINESS. > > > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the > stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the > more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more > money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. > They think they are doing something wonderful because the > water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also > easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water > change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > > > joe t > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27707	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Looking back on my post, the one lb container is not the most economical. The 5 lb container, which I bought, has been very economical. I am maybe half way through it and going on almost two years now. $33.95 Each Treats 18,794 Gallons of tap water 5 gallon container @ $33.95 plus shipping. Mike He sells a 1 lb container thatlb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water for $10.95 plus shipping. -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 8:31 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Hi Chris, I cannot recall if I got it from eBay or AquaBid. At various times I have seen it on both. Or I may have gotten it from Kensfish.com. ?http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html?I don't know Ken, but I buy a lot of stuff from hin. I would recommend him. He sells a 1 lb container thatlb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water for $10.95 plus shipping. His online shop is kind of?aimed at people that keep fish rooms. When I was running 35 tanks buying things in bulk was essential. Salt makes perfect sense for the Mollies and the platies. I really like the wild type Mollies. I would like to set up and outside pond for them sometime. -Mike Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 5:01 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > As for treating water I use ChlorAmX. The powder which is used to make things like Amquel. Buying it in powder form allows me to buy it in bulk and I can treat thousands and thousands of gallons of water. If I did not use the ChlorAmX I would use Amquel, but I would skip Amquel+. I just don't need the extra stuff it offers most of the time. > > I cannot even recall who makes my test kit. Maybe API? Once I am up and running and making regular water changes I almost never test. I don't often salt my tanks and I Never alter the pH with buffers. > > my 2 cents. > > -Mike > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) > So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, > Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 1:30 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > > > > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) > So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, > Chris > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are > in a BUSINESS. > > > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the > stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the > more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more > money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. > They think they are doing something wonderful because the > water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also > easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water > change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > > > joe t > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27708	From: Chris	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Mike Thanks for the link, looks like a great resource! Its been bookmarked. I'll have to order some of that stuff. Christine (I think I'll use my full name from now on as there is another Chris) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > I cannot recall if I got it from eBay or AquaBid. At various times I have seen it on both. Or I may have gotten it from Kensfish.com.  http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html%c3%82%c2%a0I don't know Ken, but I buy a lot of stuff from hin. I would recommend him. He sells a 1 lb container thatlb Jar: $10.95 Each > > Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water for $10.95 plus shipping. > > His online shop is kind of aimed at people that keep fish rooms. When I was running 35 tanks buying things in bulk was essential. > > Salt makes perfect sense for the Mollies and the platies. I really like the wild type Mollies. I would like to set up and outside pond for them sometime. > > -Mike > > > > > Mike > Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like > at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and > platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... > thanks again, > Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 5:01 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > > > > > > Mike > Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like > at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and > platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... > thanks again, > Chris > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > > > As for treating water I use ChlorAmX. The powder which is used to > make things like Amquel. Buying it in powder form allows me to buy it > in bulk and I can treat thousands and thousands of gallons of water. > If I did not use the ChlorAmX I would use Amquel, but I would skip > Amquel+. I just don't need the extra stuff it offers most of the time. > > > > I cannot even recall who makes my test kit. Maybe API? Once I am up > and running and making regular water changes I almost never test. I > don't often salt my tanks and I Never alter the pH with buffers. > > > > my 2 cents. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat > the > > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) > > So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, > > Chris > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chris <odragonmommy@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 1:30 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance > advice??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat > the > > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) > > So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, > > Chris > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are > > in a BUSINESS. > > > > > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the > > stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the > > more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more > > money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > > > > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their > fish. > > They think they are doing something wonderful because the > > water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also > > easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water > > change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! > Mobile. > > Try it now. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27709	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Pleco

I saw in a follow-up post that the little guy died. Pleco's are pretty tough little fish as a rule. I've read stories of them jumping out of a tank and being on the floor for hours and still be alive and get put back in the tank and act like nothing happened. Catfish in general are a very tough species. Just to try and figure out what went wrong, how long did you have him? I saw you had him in a 10G which is much too small for a long term home for a common pleco but I don't think this is your problem. If you do get another one, they need at least 75G for themselves and that's a bare minimum. 150G to 200G would be better since they grow to 18" to 24" long. What other fish did you have in the 10G? (By the way.. for a good stocking suggestion list for 10G tanks, go to my blog and on the right side down in the Labels section, click on the "10G Tank Stocking Suggestions" and you'll find a very detailed article listing almost all of the common tropical fish that can live long term in a 10G tank. What were your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and temperature readings? Has anything changed within the past few days with the tank? Any cleaning of the filters, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pleco Today I came home and noticed he was on his side, but then I flipped him around and he seems to be slow/normal except my male swordtail is pecking at him. What could be going on? The other day he was doing fine. This is my first pleco. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1418 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 5:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27710	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

The API Tap Water Conditioner is under $5.00 for a 16 oz. bottle and treats 9,600G for chlorine or 2,400G for chloramine. You can find it at many pet stores like PetsMart and online stores. If you have a PetsMart nearby, always print out their online price before going there and the local store will match the price. I save 30-50% this way. If they don't have the API 16 oz., get the TopFin 8 oz. which is around $3.00 and treats 2400G for chlorine or chloramine. Of course, if you have lots of tanks or a pond, then the bulk container of ChlorAmx is a good deal. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Looking back on my post, the one lb container is not the most economical. The 5 lb container, which I bought, has been very economical. I am maybe half way through it and going on almost two years now. $33.95 Each Treats 18,794 Gallons of tap water 5 gallon container @ $33.95 plus shipping. Mike He sells a 1 lb container thatlb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water for $10.95 plus shipping. -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 8:31 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Hi Chris, I cannot recall if I got it from eBay or AquaBid. At various times I have seen it on both. Or I may have gotten it from Kensfish.com. ?http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html?I <http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html?I> don't know Ken, but I buy a lot of stuff from hin. I would recommend him. He sells a 1 lb container thatlb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water for $10.95 plus shipping. His online shop is kind of?aimed at people that keep fish rooms. When I was running 35 tanks buying things in bulk was essential. Salt makes perfect sense for the Mollies and the platies. I really like the wild type Mollies. I would like to set up and outside pond for them sometime. -Mike Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Chris <odragonmommy@... <mailto:odragonmommy%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 5:01 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > As for treating water I use ChlorAmX. The powder which is used to make things like Amquel. Buying it in powder form allows me to buy it in bulk and I can treat thousands and thousands of gallons of water. If I did not use the ChlorAmX I would use Amquel, but I would skip Amquel+. I just don't need the extra stuff it offers most of the time. > > I cannot even recall who makes my test kit. Maybe API? Once I am up and running and making regular water changes I almost never test. I don't often salt my tanks and I Never alter the pH with buffers. > > my 2 cents. > > -Mike > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are > bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 1:30 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > > > > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are > bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , joe t <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are > in a BUSINESS. > > > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the > stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more > fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money > selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. > They think they are doing something wonderful because the water > "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier > to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. > ..............and the beat goes on. > > > > joe t > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1418 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 5:17 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27711	From: Blue fish	Date: 5/7/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C4046565C4542425A445146445A515F49 ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C4046565C4542425A445146445A515F49 Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C4046565C4542425A445146445A515F4C Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27712	From: Wendie	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Re: Pleco

I'm also wondering just what type of pleco this was. Some won't get any bigger than 3 inches. Some plecos are wood eaters and need wood in their diet. Was his stomach sunken in when you got him? If so, he might have been starving when you got him or had a bacterial infection. I also find that small clown plecos do have a tendency to get the ick and pass away. These are currently available in the stores. Wendie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27713	From: Russ Foley	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Unwell Molly

Hi there, Checking the fish this morning I noticed that our white molly has a marking on each side. I have no idea what it is. If anyone would like to see the pics to give me their thoughts just send a blank e-mail to molly@... and my computer will bounce back an e-mail with the photos on. Some are not brill some shows the markings. It is in the same place on both sides. Thanks Russ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27714	From: Gregg	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Moving Questions

My experience with well water is that it is at least as good as tap water. Some well water is very hard and alkaline, though. You may have to adjust gradually with the water you plan to bring from your old home. Is there any way to get a few cups of water from the new place? Forewarned is forearmed, as they say. -- Gregg Bender www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27715	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: HOB Question

I have HOB's on all my planted tanks. Most are Whisper HOB's (or whatever they are called now), and I also have some Marineland Penguin's. Biowheels only on half of them. The Whisper's filter cartridge comes with the carbon that I always remove (thanks Lenny!). Can I just buy some foam cartridges (say for an AquaClear HOB), cut them to fit (skinny so that I can fit two in instead of one), and use that in the HOB's? I like my AquaClear because of the foam sponge and never really replacing it after probably five or so years of use and am hoping to convert my other HOB's to something like that. Is this workable? Most of my HOB's have two filter compartments but some only have one so I would have to take an established sponge from one of the others so that it is seeded to put into the single compartment HOB's. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27716	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: My tank photos posted

Hi everyone, I posted 2 photos of my 20g community tank in the photo section. They should appear at the same time when this message is approved by the moderators. I must say that these pics were taken a few months ago, the tank is less crowded with plants now, and more crowded with fish! Actually it's overcrowded as Lenny told me! It contains: 5 Tetra serpae, 2 half size angle fish, 2 red zebra danios, 6 guppies, 2 kuhli loach, 2 small sucker fish, 2 blue gouramies, 2 dwarf gouramies, 1 male platy, and 3 baby clown loaches. Best regards, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27717	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Re: Hey there! Im a new member

Welcome Anna. and sorry for the delay. It looks like you have to spend not only all your money, but also all your time on your nice collection! We're looking forward to talk to you too. I hope you'll like it here Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "amb112" <amb112@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 8:16 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey there! Im a new member Well my name is Anna and I have been a fishoholic for four years. I thought

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27718	From: tteitgen	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Brown Algae

I have a brown algae problem in my fresh water tank. Any advice on how to get rid of this problem? It is on every thing. I do a pwc every other week on my 55 gallon tank. Do I need to completely emtpy the tank and Bleach everything?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27719	From: staticdreamdesigns	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Newcomer..

Hey all! Just introducing myself as I am new to the group. My name is Ken I'm from North Carolina. I just started my saltwater hobby about a month ago and have done a good deal of research getting into this - - I have a 55 gal tank with only 2 live rocks in it for the time being, along with two engineer gobies. If anyone has some advice for these little guys, I'd be glad to hear what you have to say. Thanks!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27720	From: bmp	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Re: My tank photos posted

Hello Noura, Thanks for posting the photos of your tank. It looks nice. Belatedly, I welcome you to the group as well. I enjoy knowing we have members from all regions of the world. Even though it has been several years since I travelled in the Middle East, memories of that time and the kind people I met stay with me. I enjoyed it and hope to return some day. Best regards, Beverly in south Texas Peace, please! --- On Thu, 5/8/08, N Taweel <n-taweel@...> wrote: > From: N Taweel <n-taweel@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] My tank photos posted > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, May 8, 2008, 6:21 PM > Hi everyone, > I posted 2 photos of my 20g community tank in the photo > section. > They should appear at the same time when this message is > approved by the moderators. > I must say that these pics were taken a few months ago, the > tank is less crowded with plants now, and more crowded with > fish! Actually it's overcrowded as Lenny told me! > > It contains: > 5 Tetra serpae, 2 half size angle fish, 2 red zebra danios, > 6 guppies, 2 kuhli loach, 2 small sucker fish, 2 blue > gouramies, 2 dwarf gouramies, 1 male platy, and 3 baby > clown loaches. > > Best regards, > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27721	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question

Yes! That was a simple one to answer. ;-) It's not often I can answer with only one word so I had to add this extra paragraph. lol Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HOB Question I have HOB's on all my planted tanks. Most are Whisper HOB's (or whatever they are called now), and I also have some Marineland Penguin's. Biowheels only on half of them. The Whisper's filter cartridge comes with the carbon that I always remove (thanks Lenny!). Can I just buy some foam cartridges (say for an AquaClear HOB), cut them to fit (skinny so that I can fit two in instead of one), and use that in the HOB's? I like my AquaClear because of the foam sponge and never really replacing it after probably five or so years of use and am hoping to convert my other HOB's to something like that. Is this workable? Most of my HOB's have two filter compartments but some only have one so I would have to take an established sponge from one of the others so that it is seeded to put into the single compartment HOB's. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.10/1421 - Release Date: 5/7/2008 5:23 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27722	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Brown Algae... which is actually Diatoms (in most cases) isn't actually an algae. Diatoms will usually populate a newly set up tank due to excess silicates in a new tank. How long has your tank been set up? What are your water parameters like? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness, KH, etc... anything that you have. Here's more info on Diatoms. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/algae.htm#brown They are harmless to your fish and will eventually (several weeks to several months) die off and quit populating the tank as the rest of the tanks ecology takes over. You should be able to just brush it off everything and then vacuum it up when you do your gravel vacuuming every week or so. There's no need to do anything drastic.. especially not breaking down the tank and bleaching everything. I don't know if there's ever a reason to do that barring some major disease that wiped out the entire tank first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tteitgen Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 3:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I have a brown algae problem in my fresh water tank. Any advice on how to get rid of this problem? It is on every thing. I do a pwc every other week on my 55 gallon tank. Do I need to completely emtpy the tank and Bleach everything? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.10/1421 - Release Date: 5/7/2008 5:23 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27723	From: mathhaven	Date: 5/8/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

Steve - I understand what you're saying about mollies, but perhaps you missed the beginning of this thread (which I've deleted to save space, but is still attached in the group messages). I initiated the question because most sources were saying the same thing that you are - basically, that mollies can live in just about any tank that you have, 100% fresh to 100% ocean(-like). What I wasn't finding in other sources, but Lenny offered, is an opinion about what is the best environment that they can be given to ensure their happiness and longevity. His advise, that they would not be happy in the same tank as my tetras (100% fresh, low Ph, soft) was well taken, and what I was looking for. I used the term "brackish" as I have generally seen it, to refer to any tank that has any amount of salt added on a regular basis. I probably should have said slightly brackish, as I do not keep that much salt in it. My LFS recommended three tablespoons of aquarium salt for the ten gallons in the tank, and that is the level that I have been keeping it at (although I admit that I really should get an instrument to measure the tanks salinity, so I can be sure I haven't deviated too far from my intentions). The snails in the Molly tank are not a major problem, as I have been keeping a watch on it and culling the excess. I mentioned it only because of the fact that the ones added to the tetra tank were eliminated so quickly, but this particular breed of snails seems quite hardy in general. I thought someone might chime in as too who ate them before they could be a problem. I do feed the molly tank a bit more per fish (and per fish inch) than the tetra tank, but they actually consume the food a lot faster than the tetras, and beg for food more often. We started off the tank with three females (two white and a dalmation) and one male (black). The male did not last that long, I think because of the cycling (shorter, as the tank was seeded with water and gravel from the tetra tank), but my wife is convinced the girls killed him. The dalmation gave birth to some fry within the first month, and one of them actually survived to the present (just released to general population last week). I think that one of the others gave birth since then, but the fry did not make it to being seen ( I often refer to my wife's fish as barracudas). - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > Some mollies are, indeed brackish, while others have never seen a > coastal plain or the ocean. The addition of salt to livebearer tanks is > a common practice, and is used mainly to bring up, or imitate to an > extent, the harder water most of these species originate in. However, > many of those you now see in stores are far removed from their origins, > both in water quality and breeding, so it probably does not matter the > kind of water they are kept in. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 12:58 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Chris, > > I'm hoping you just mis-typed a little when you said the Molly tank is > brackish. Brackish is much saltier than what mollys should be in. The > general rule is that mollys and other livebearers are actually > freshwater > fish but that they tolerate a little salt in their tanks but not up to > the > level of brackish which could be 50/50 salt/fresh water. How much salt > (teaspoons per gallon) are you adding to the Molly tank? > > As far as the snails... they may be thriving in one tank over another > based > on the availability of food. They are opportunistic breeders and will > breed > a lot if there is plenty of food but will slow down on breeding if there > is > not much food for them. If there are breeding like crazy in one tank, > that > means someone is over feeding the fish in that tank or not vacuuming the > gravel enough. There could be other reasons but those are the main two > for > snail problems. > > As I've said in the past, having a couple of snails in a tank isn't > necessarily a bad thing as they will help clean up things and if you see > them starting to breed too much, you know you may need to step up your > tank > maintenance or cut back on feedings. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of mathhaven > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > For what it's worth, the original 29 gallon in question has the > dimensions > Lenny described - 30lx12dx17h. > I tried tapping the glass, but I got no reaction whatsoever. Not too > surprising, as they share a room with a six year old and a two year old. > They all do seem pretty comfortable, but I'm thinking of filling out one > of > the schools to see if it changes their behavior. My inclination is to > get > two more Diamond Tetras, as they were the original inhabitants, and > they're > pretty and calm. Our Serpae Tetras have been wonderful, but I read > (online, > and probably unreliably) of a couple cases of Serpae schools getting > more > aggressive than smaller groups, and most online sources say that the > Cherry > Barbs aren't going to school anyway. At this point, my LFS doesn't have > any > more Diamonds, so it's going to have to wait anyway. > On a different topic (but another current thread), my wife's 10 gallon > (Molly) tank got some snails when I introduced some new plants. Before I > realized that they were going to be a problem, I transferred a dozen or > so > into my daughter's tank (currently the 29 gallon, but at the time an > overstocked ten gallon). They were all devoured with a day or so. At the > time, the tank had the Diamonds (3, 2 of the current ones), the Serpaes, > 3 > ADF's and a small (common, I think) Pleco. I don't know who ate them, > but I > suspected that it was the Diamond Tetra who passed away shortly > thereafter > (as a result?), but that's purely speculation on my part. The snails are > still a problem in the 10 gallon Molly tank (kept brackish), and I clear > some out by hand every couple weeks, but they never took to the Tetra > tank. > I'm not sure what it all means, but I thought I'd put it out there. > - Chris >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27724	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank

It appears that you have missed my point. There are many species of mollie. They can be found in water ranging from heavily brackish to ocean, through the range to totally fresh water. Mollies that have been hybridized or are farmed can come from any type of water, even if their wild counterparts came from brackish or fresh. For most of those found in stores, the addition of salt to the tank is not necessary, since they have been raised in fresh water with varying degrees of hardness. If you are adding salt to a tank for more than medicinal purposes, I would suggest one chooses a marine brand of salt to use for the added trace elements. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mathhaven Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 11:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank Steve - I understand what you're saying about mollies, but perhaps you missed the beginning of this thread (which I've deleted to save space, but is still attached in the group messages). I initiated the question because most sources were saying the same thing that you are - basically, that mollies can live in just about any tank that you have, 100% fresh to 100% ocean(-like). What I wasn't finding in other sources, but Lenny offered, is an opinion about what is the best environment that they can be given to ensure their happiness and longevity. His advise, that they would not be happy in the same tank as my tetras (100% fresh, low Ph, soft) was well taken, and what I was looking for. I used the term "brackish" as I have generally seen it, to refer to any tank that has any amount of salt added on a regular basis. I probably should have said slightly brackish, as I do not keep that much salt in it. My LFS recommended three tablespoons of aquarium salt for the ten gallons in the tank, and that is the level that I have been keeping it at (although I admit that I really should get an instrument to measure the tanks salinity, so I can be sure I haven't deviated too far from my intentions). The snails in the Molly tank are not a major problem, as I have been keeping a watch on it and culling the excess. I mentioned it only because of the fact that the ones added to the tetra tank were eliminated so quickly, but this particular breed of snails seems quite hardy in general. I thought someone might chime in as too who ate them before they could be a problem. I do feed the molly tank a bit more per fish (and per fish inch) than the tetra tank, but they actually consume the food a lot faster than the tetras, and beg for food more often. We started off the tank with three females (two white and a dalmation) and one male (black). The male did not last that long, I think because of the cycling (shorter, as the tank was seeded with water and gravel from the tetra tank), but my wife is convinced the girls killed him. The dalmation gave birth to some fry within the first month, and one of them actually survived to the present (just released to general population last week). I think that one of the others gave birth since then, but the fry did not make it to being seen ( I often refer to my wife's fish as barracudas). - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > Some mollies are, indeed brackish, while others have never seen a > coastal plain or the ocean. The addition of salt to livebearer tanks is > a common practice, and is used mainly to bring up, or imitate to an > extent, the harder water most of these species originate in. However, > many of those you now see in stores are far removed from their origins, > both in water quality and breeding, so it probably does not matter the > kind of water they are kept in. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 12:58 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > Chris, > > I'm hoping you just mis-typed a little when you said the Molly tank is > brackish. Brackish is much saltier than what mollys should be in. The > general rule is that mollys and other livebearers are actually > freshwater > fish but that they tolerate a little salt in their tanks but not up to > the > level of brackish which could be 50/50 salt/fresh water. How much salt > (teaspoons per gallon) are you adding to the Molly tank? > > As far as the snails... they may be thriving in one tank over another > based > on the availability of food. They are opportunistic breeders and will > breed > a lot if there is plenty of food but will slow down on breeding if there > is > not much food for them. If there are breeding like crazy in one tank, > that > means someone is over feeding the fish in that tank or not vacuuming the > gravel enough. There could be other reasons but those are the main two > for > snail problems. > > As I've said in the past, having a couple of snails in a tank isn't > necessarily a bad thing as they will help clean up things and if you see > them starting to breed too much, you know you may need to step up your > tank > maintenance or cut back on feedings. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of mathhaven > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 29 Gallon Community Tank > > For what it's worth, the original 29 gallon in question has the > dimensions > Lenny described - 30lx12dx17h. > I tried tapping the glass, but I got no reaction whatsoever. Not too > surprising, as they share a room with a six year old and a two year old. > They all do seem pretty comfortable, but I'm thinking of filling out one > of > the schools to see if it changes their behavior. My inclination is to > get > two more Diamond Tetras, as they were the original inhabitants, and > they're > pretty and calm. Our Serpae Tetras have been wonderful, but I read > (online, > and probably unreliably) of a couple cases of Serpae schools getting > more > aggressive than smaller groups, and most online sources say that the > Cherry > Barbs aren't going to school anyway. At this point, my LFS doesn't have > any > more Diamonds, so it's going to have to wait anyway. > On a different topic (but another current thread), my wife's 10 gallon > (Molly) tank got some snails when I introduced some new plants. Before I > realized that they were going to be a problem, I transferred a dozen or > so > into my daughter's tank (currently the 29 gallon, but at the time an > overstocked ten gallon). They were all devoured with a day or so. At the > time, the tank had the Diamonds (3, 2 of the current ones), the Serpaes, > 3 > ADF's and a small (common, I think) Pleco. I don't know who ate them, > but I > suspected that it was the Diamond Tetra who passed away shortly > thereafter > (as a result?), but that's purely speculation on my part. The snails are > still a problem in the 10 gallon Molly tank (kept brackish), and I clear > some out by hand every couple weeks, but they never took to the Tetra > tank. > I'm not sure what it all means, but I thought I'd put it out there. > - Chris >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27725	From: James	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: Pleco

Hello, He was a Trinidad Pleco, had to look it up. Actually his stomach was concaved when I got him. I did no research, which was stupid of me. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27726	From: ED	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: WoooooooHooooooo

Just scored a 75gal bowfront tank with hood and filters for $100. Woooohoooooo a new big blue. Used to be a 55gal. Now to get it going. God I love the penny papers and peeps with poor knowledge and tank hygiene. lol. Payed $75 for the 55gal. Only 20 more gallons but hey, the more th merrier. Odd bit of news- we have well water that tests high PH , yet our tank with angels tests about 6.2 and the platties/neon tetra's runs 6.8.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27727	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Bio Cubes

Not sure if anyone nswered me the last time I posted about this, or maybe I just didnt see the email and deleted it. My friend has a 14 gallon BioCube she got awhile ago, its not set up yet, she just has bought some crushed coral, salt and a heater. Sheordered in a BioCube protien skimmer, but we both didnt know if it would be up to par for the tank, yes its made by te tank company, but it looks pretty cheap. Does anyone know if this is a good protien skimmer? Or is there a better submerssible one she should get. The problem with the tank is it is not built for things to hand off from the side, everything has to be submerssible. Also if anyone has any other ideas of must haves for a tank, esp one so small I tried to talk her into something bigger as it would have been easier to maintain, but she doesnt have the room for it in her bedroom. Also a good fishlight would be nice for such a small tank. I know she loves the inverts, so something that is invert friendly and hardy, remember this is her first attempt. Thanks! ~Melissa ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27728	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Purigen

Hi Lenny, Want to change my filter media from the Rena Filstar Bio chem sorb to Purigen. What is the best bag to use and how much for a 55 gallon tank? Do you need a special bag since the granules are so small. You have mentioned some places to get Purigen and filter bags . Where do you suggest that I purchase these supplies? That Pet Place, Drs Foster and Smith, and Petco come to mind. Who has the best deal? thanks for your advice. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27729	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo

Another good place to keep an eye out is freecycle and similar lists. I got one of my 55’s off of it. They just recently had a couple of 55’s with stands listed what a shame I didn’t have any room for them *grin* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] WoooooooHooooooo Just scored a 75gal bowfront tank with hood and filters for $100. Woooohoooooo a new big blue. Used to be a 55gal. Now to get it going. God I love the penny papers and peeps with poor knowledge and tank hygiene. lol. Payed $75 for the 55gal. Only 20 more gallons but hey, the more th merrier. Odd bit of news- we have well water that tests high PH , yet our tank with angels tests about 6.2 and the platties/neon tetra's runs 6.8. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27730	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: mollies

I remember growing up have a 10 gallon with a few mollies in it. This was 25-30 years ago and I knew very little about them. I went away to camp and came back to find that there was a bunch of fry in the tank and no salt in the water. In recent years, I had a 30 gallon tank set up that was freshwater tank and added salt to it and slowly increased the salinity level till became more along the line of salt water. The mollies bred like bunnies. Btw does anyone find the Balloon Mollies butt ugly? Rick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27731	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: mollies

In a message dated 5/9/2008 6:11:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rick2646@... writes: I went away to camp and came back to find that there was a bunch of fry in the tank and no salt in the water. In recent years, I had a 30 gallon tank set up that was freshwater tank and added salt to it and slowly increased the salinity level till became more along the line of salt water. The mollies bred like bunnies. Btw does anyone find the Balloon Mollies butt ugly? Rick If I recall correctly Hard water in lieu of salt allows the Salt or Brackish mollies to thrive. YMMV Balloon Mollies do nothing for me. I buy fish for my local aquarium society and I only pick the wild "type" Big sails, as close to natural colors as possible. No Balloons etc. -Mike **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27732	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question

I've been wondering the same exact thing! I'm very glad Paula asked. I have one additional question in a similar vein: Can you buy foam from the fabric/craft store to use in a fish filter? If so, is there anything in particular that I should be looking for? Thanks! -Lana

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27733	From: AquaticLife™	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Bay Area Coral Farmers Market Third Annual Event

Sunday, May 11th, 2008 10:30 AM to 4 PM http://www.ba-cfm.com/ Hilton Newark/Fremont Hotel 39900 Balentine Dr. Newark, California 94560 This 2008 Coral Farmers Market sanctioned event is the third annual event run by the Bay Area Coral Farmers Market company. Coral farming and exhibiting vendors will be selling or displaying their captive grown, cultured corals or reef related products to the public. We expect over 200 total attendees. Some of the best coral farming vendors from Southern California, the Bay Area, the states of Utah, Nevada and Arizona along with farmers from Sacramento will be setting up coral displays. Farmers include aquarists, retail reef shops, online coral shops and full scale coral farming enterprises. There will also be exhibitors present who will be demonstrating and selling their products. This SW-CFM event will also feature coral auctions, raffles and door prizes throughout the day. Reef aquarists new to the captive reef market can also expect to see a fine collection of easy to keep beginner corals. Aquarists and enthusiasts can attend this one-day event by purchasing a SouthWestern Coral Farmers Market day ticket online for ($15) up to one month prior to the event. Within 1 month of the event the online ticket price is ($25) per ticket. Tickets will also be sold at the door ($30) during the day of the event, but may be limited by occupancy restrictions. We are also encouraging our farmers to bring plently of farmed soft corals along with their usual excellent farmed stony corals.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27734	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bio Cubes

Sounds like you should start with a couple of books on how to set up an aquarium. Of course we're glad to help, but to start from scratch? Is there sucfh a thing as a newby list of aquarium web sites? One thing; crushed coral for gravel will add hardness and raise the pH of hte water, and some fish need neutral to acidic. It's particularly a bad idea if you have hard, alkaline water. You can get quartz gravel if you shop around a bit. Petco may have it. I got some online, and more from a local aquarium store. It often comes coated in acrylic. But if it's quartz it shouldn't adversely affect the water chemistry. On the other hand if you're doing salt water fish, no problem. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27735	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question

Lana, In my personal experience I was unable to find suitable foam at Joann Fabrics. The pores were too small to allow adequate water flow. I have not been there in a couple years though. Maybe next time Lenny needs some fabric or other sewing material he can check that out for us ;) Now after making that crack I actually do need to go buy some yarn for Rainbow Spawning mops. You might look into a place that sells foam for aquarium filtration, maybe pond filtration. If you need a lot buying in bulk works great. You could probably buy a large aquaclear sponge and cut it to fit. I have bought their large sponges and cut them down to fit smaller aquaclears. I think BigAlsOnline has there own brand of sponge material for aquaclears, but then you have to pay shipping. Your LFS will probably be the best deal if you only need one. Always important to try and support them when we can. -Mike In a message dated 5/9/2008 7:07:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lana.m.gibbons@... writes: Can you buy foam from the fabric/craft store to use in a fish filter? If so, is there anything in particular that I should be looking for? Thanks! -Lana **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo

Congrats on the new tank(s). The ecology of a tank will cause fluctuations in pH levels. For example, a well maintained tank with low bioload and weekly 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance will have a much more consistent pH and water parameter levels. A heavily stocked tank with excess detritus in the gravel and a heavy buildup of mulm in the filters will cause all of the bacteria (good and bad) to utilize trace elements and minerals a lot faster and they put out CO2 as part of their living so that will cause the pH to come down much faster as the KH levels decrease. Driftwood and live plants can cause the pH to get lower/higher also. If the KH gets too low, the nitrifying bacteria can start to die off and/or the pH can crash to a deadly low level. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] WoooooooHooooooo Just scored a 75gal bowfront tank with hood and filters for $100. Woooohoooooo a new big blue. Used to be a 55gal. Now to get it going. God I love the penny papers and peeps with poor knowledge and tank hygiene. lol. Payed $75 for the 55gal. Only 20 more gallons but hey, the more th merrier. Odd bit of news- we have well water that tests high PH , yet our tank with angels tests about 6.2 and the platties/neon tetra's runs 6.8. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27737	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen

The 100ml package of Purigen comes in it's own sealed media bag. That would be fine for a normally stocked 55G. I use two packages on my 65G with two fancy goldfish and alternate recharging them so there is always a clean package running in one of the filters. If you go with the bulk 500ml container, which I don't think you will need with only one 55G tank, then you might want to contact SeaChem to see if their media bags will work. I haven't priced it in several years... I still am using my original two packages... so I can't help you with pricing but I do always check PetsMart.com and print out their online prices before going to the local store near my home since they will match their internet prices. Other places I've used are BigAlsOnline.com, MarineDepot.com and DrsFosterSmith.com. I find that Petco.com has high prices compared to PetsMart.com and Petco will not match their online prices so I don't do much shopping with them. Lenny Vasbinder FREE and automatic online remote backup of your documents, photos and files... https://mozy.com/?ref=SY4ZSI Check out how simple and secure it can be to use the Mozy remote backup system. Mozy will back up your most important files and folders every day/night while you aren't using your computer. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Purigen Hi Lenny, Want to change my filter media from the Rena Filstar Bio chem sorb to Purigen. What is the best bag to use and how much for a 55 gallon tank? Do you need a special bag since the granules are so small. You have mentioned some places to get Purigen and filter bags . Where do you suggest that I purchase these supplies? That Pet Place, Drs Foster and Smith, and Petco come to mind. Who has the best deal? thanks for your advice. Steve No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27738	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: mollies

I never really looked at their butts very much. Ooops.. you meant the fish were butt ugly... I thought u just meant their butts were ugly. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Rattie Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 8:18 PM To: YG Aquatic Life Subject: [AquaticLife] mollies I remember growing up have a 10 gallon with a few mollies in it. This was 25-30 years ago and I knew very little about them. I went away to camp and came back to find that there was a bunch of fry in the tank and no salt in the water. In recent years, I had a 30 gallon tank set up that was freshwater tank and added salt to it and slowly increased the salinity level till became more along the line of salt water. The mollies bred like bunnies. Btw does anyone find the Balloon Mollies butt ugly? Rick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27739	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question

Lynn mentioned in another thread recently where he would suck and blow through the foam at JoAnn's to make sure it was open cell foam. If you shop around your local and/or online fish stores, you should be able to find a low-cost package of filter foam block that can be cut to size. I figure it's safer to buy a reputable brand name than risk getting some cheap Chinese knock-off that might leach something into the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 8:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOB Question I've been wondering the same exact thing! I'm very glad Paula asked. I have one additional question in a similar vein: Can you buy foam from the fabric/craft store to use in a fish filter? If so, is there anything in particular that I should be looking for? Thanks! -Lana No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27740	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question

Mike, I'm not allowed in JoAnn's any longer after they had the guys in the white coats come and get me for sucking and blowing through all the foam. I ratted Lynn out for suggesting it so he may be locked up since he doesn't have anyone else to rat out... until now. Now he can rat out Mike to get out of the crazy house faster. Watch out Mike, they're coming to take you away! Ho Ho He He Ha Haaa! God, I'm aging myself by remembering that song or that I'm admitting that I used to listen to the Dr. Demento show. LOL http://www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/n/napoleon-xiv/theyre-coming-to-take-me- away.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOB Question Lana, In my personal experience I was unable to find suitable foam at Joann Fabrics. The pores were too small to allow adequate water flow. I have not been there in a couple years though. Maybe next time Lenny needs some fabric or other sewing material he can check that out for us ;) Now after making that crack I actually do need to go buy some yarn for Rainbow Spawning mops. You might look into a place that sells foam for aquarium filtration, maybe pond filtration. If you need a lot buying in bulk works great. You could probably buy a large aquaclear sponge and cut it to fit. I have bought their large sponges and cut them down to fit smaller aquaclears. I think BigAlsOnline has there own brand of sponge material for aquaclears, but then you have to pay shipping. Your LFS will probably be the best deal if you only need one. Always important to try and support them when we can. -Mike In a message dated 5/9/2008 7:07:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lana.m.gibbons@... <mailto:lana.m.gibbons%40gmail.com> writes: Can you buy foam from the fabric/craft store to use in a fish filter? If so, is there anything in particular that I should be looking for? Thanks! -Lana No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27741	From: bmp	Date: 5/9/2008
Subject: Re: mollies

Hi Rick, I do not care for the looks of balloon mollies at all. To me, they look deformed and in pain. I cannot fathom why some human thought it would be a good idea to encourage this mollie type. They are sold where I buy most of my fish; I would rather the tank space be given to some sailfins. I have never seen a male sailfin and would love to. I keep saying I want to go down to the local river (also known as the Rio Grande) or one of its offshoots and see if I can net any native mollies. However, with all the government's talk of constructing a tall wall to keep out illegal immigrants, I am afraid that the clock is loudly ticking on this idea. Beverly in Texas Peace, please! --- On Fri, 5/9/08, Richard Rattie <rick2646@...> wrote: > From: Richard Rattie <rick2646@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] mollies > To: "YG Aquatic Life" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, May 9, 2008, 8:17 PM > > Btw does anyone find the Balloon Mollies butt ugly? > > Rick ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27742	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question

One thing not yet mentioned is that you need to find foam without any chemicals added, no mildewcides, mold inhibitors, etc. You need to look for furniture foam. Likely sources are stores that sell upholstery items. Or, you can try these online sources: http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/427/Filter-Foam-Reticulated http://www.ndi-us.com/products.cfm (can learn a bunch about it here, but, I suspect you would need to order in a minimum quantity to fill your home from here.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOB Question I've been wondering the same exact thing! I'm very glad Paula asked. I have one additional question in a similar vein: Can you buy foam from the fabric/craft store to use in a fish filter? If so, is there anything in particular that I should be looking for? Thanks! -Lana ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27743	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Bio Cubes

As i said, this isnt my tank, I just told her I would post on here for her. Its just with doing such a small tank I didnt know if there was something you suggest shouldbe a must have for her. I did tell her that about the crushed coral already, I said she should have went with the sand, she went with coral as someone else told her that she needed it. --- Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Sounds like you should start with a couple of books > on how to set up an aquarium. Of course we're glad > to help, but to start from scratch? > > Is there sucfh a thing as a newby list of aquarium > web sites? > > One thing; crushed coral for gravel will add > hardness and raise the pH of hte water, and some > fish need neutral to acidic. It's particularly a > bad idea if you have hard, alkaline water. You can > get quartz gravel if you shop around a bit. Petco > may have it. I got some online, and more from a > local aquarium store. It often comes coated in > acrylic. But if it's quartz it shouldn't adversely > affect the water chemistry. > > On the other hand if you're doing salt water fish, > no problem. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27744	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

I actually have a bottle of the API tap water conditioner. But why one would want to use it. In this place where ammonia is .5 ppm out of the tap, I seem to use three to four times as much Prime to get the ammonia as to get the chloramines. Chloramines break down into chlorine and ammonia, so your water conditioner needs to remove the ammonia that is created when it breaks down the chloramines. The API tap water conditioner bottle explicitly says that if you use it for chloramines you have to use another product to get the ammonia - they recommend their own AMmolock or whatever. Prime and Amquel will get the ammonia as well as the chlorine and chloramine. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:29 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? The API Tap Water Conditioner is under $5.00 for a 16 oz. bottle and treats 9,600G for chlorine or 2,400G for chloramine. You can find it at many pet stores like PetsMart and online stores. If you have a PetsMart nearby, always print out their online price before going there and the local store will match the price. I save 30-50% this way. If they don't have the API 16 oz., get the TopFin 8 oz. which is around $3.00 and treats 2400G for chlorine or chloramine. Of course, if you have lots of tanks or a pond, then the bulk container of ChlorAmx is a good deal. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Looking back on my post, the one lb container is not the most economical. The 5 lb container, which I bought, has been very economical. I am maybe half way through it and going on almost two years now. $33.95 Each Treats 18,794 Gallons of tap water 5 gallon container @ $33.95 plus shipping. Mike He sells a 1 lb container thatlb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water for $10.95 plus shipping. -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 8:31 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Hi Chris, I cannot recall if I got it from eBay or AquaBid. At various times I have seen it on both. Or I may have gotten it from Kensfish.com. ?http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html?I <http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html?I> don't know Ken, but I buy a lot of stuff from hin. I would recommend him. He sells a 1 lb container thatlb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water for $10.95 plus shipping. His online shop is kind of?aimed at people that keep fish rooms. When I was running 35 tanks buying things in bulk was essential. Salt makes perfect sense for the Mollies and the platies. I really like the wild type Mollies. I would like to set up and outside pond for them sometime. -Mike Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Chris <odragonmommy@... <mailto:odragonmommy%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 5:01 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > As for treating water I use ChlorAmX. The powder which is used to make things like Amquel. Buying it in powder form allows me to buy it in bulk and I can treat thousands and thousands of gallons of water. If I did not use the ChlorAmX I would use Amquel, but I would skip Amquel+. I just don't need the extra stuff it offers most of the time. > > I cannot even recall who makes my test kit. Maybe API? Once I am up and running and making regular water changes I almost never test. I don't often salt my tanks and I Never alter the pH with buffers. > > my 2 cents. > > -Mike > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are > bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 1:30 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > > > > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are > bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , joe t <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are > in a BUSINESS. > > > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the > stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more > fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money > selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. > They think they are doing something wonderful because the water > "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier > to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. > ..............and the beat goes on. > > > > joe t > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1418 - Release Date: 5/6/2008 5:17 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27745	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo

Freecycle's a good program if you're into active trading. That's a requirement for the program. You can't just receive, you must also give. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Roberts To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 7:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] WoooooooHooooooo Another good place to keep an eye out is freecycle and similar lists. I got one of my 55's off of it. They just recently had a couple of 55's with stands listed.what a shame I didn't have any room for them *grin* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] WoooooooHooooooo Just scored a 75gal bowfront tank with hood and filters for $100. Woooohoooooo a new big blue. Used to be a 55gal. Now to get it going. God I love the penny papers and peeps with poor knowledge and tank hygiene. lol. Payed $75 for the 55gal. Only 20 more gallons but hey, the more th merrier. Odd bit of news- we have well water that tests high PH , yet our tank with angels tests about 6.2 and the platties/neon tetra's runs 6.8. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27746	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question

Marine land also sells the filter pouches for one of the other filters (don’t remember the name) that are not filled with charcoal. They also sell sheets of the filter material. I am sure you can use foam from other filters and just adapt. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HOB Question One thing not yet mentioned is that you need to find foam without any chemicals added, no mildewcides, mold inhibitors, etc. You need to look for furniture foam. Likely sources are stores that sell upholstery items. Or, you can try these online sources: http://www.aquatice <http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/427/Filter-Foam-Reticulated> co.com/subcategories/427/Filter-Foam-Reticulated http://www.ndi- <http://www.ndi-us.com/products.cfm> us.com/products.cfm (can learn a bunch about it here, but, I suspect you would need to order in a minimum quantity to fill your home from here.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOB Question I've been wondering the same exact thing! I'm very glad Paula asked. I have one additional question in a similar vein: Can you buy foam from the fabric/craft store to use in a fish filter? If so, is there anything in particular that I should be looking for? Thanks! -Lana ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27747	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Dora, In a fully cycled tank, when doing a 25% PWC with chloramine treated tap water, you would only be introducing 0.125ppm of ammonia from the chloramine breaking down and that very low level of ammonia would instantly be cycled so you don't need a chemical to treat the ammonia as the nitrifying bacteria will do the job for free. The fish in a fully stocked tank put out 3-5+ppm of ammonia each day so there is nothing to be alarmed about adding 0.125ppm or even 0.5ppm of ammonia in a cycled tank. If your tank isn't fully cycled, then as long as your pH isn't in the 8.0 range, even 0.5ppm of ammonia isn't too bad but if someone is stuck with cycling with fish, then using an ammonia detoxifying product isn't the worse thing in the world. It's better to use an ammonia detoxifying product rather than one of the ammonia removing filter medias (zeolite) which would then technically starve the nitrifying bacteria so you would never get a healthy colony growing and would be stuck with having to use that filter media forever. Zeolite type products are best reserved for use only in emergency situations. In fact, if you are fishlessly cycling, which is best for the fish, then the ammonia from the chloramine actually gives the nitrifying bacteria something to start eating if you ran out of plain ammonia. All manufacturers of the various products we use try to cross-sell their other products. In most cases, those other products are not needed but the manufacturers take advantage of newbies or the uninformed customer causing those folks to keep dumping chemicals into their tanks that simply are not needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 9:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? I actually have a bottle of the API tap water conditioner. But why one would want to use it. In this place where ammonia is .5 ppm out of the tap, I seem to use three to four times as much Prime to get the ammonia as to get the chloramines. Chloramines break down into chlorine and ammonia, so your water conditioner needs to remove the ammonia that is created when it breaks down the chloramines. The API tap water conditioner bottle explicitly says that if you use it for chloramines you have to use another product to get the ammonia - they recommend their own AMmolock or whatever. Prime and Amquel will get the ammonia as well as the chlorine and chloramine. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:29 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? The API Tap Water Conditioner is under $5.00 for a 16 oz. bottle and treats 9,600G for chlorine or 2,400G for chloramine. You can find it at many pet stores like PetsMart and online stores. If you have a PetsMart nearby, always print out their online price before going there and the local store will match the price. I save 30-50% this way. If they don't have the API 16 oz., get the TopFin 8 oz. which is around $3.00 and treats 2400G for chlorine or chloramine. Of course, if you have lots of tanks or a pond, then the bulk container of ChlorAmx is a good deal. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Looking back on my post, the one lb container is not the most economical. The 5 lb container, which I bought, has been very economical. I am maybe half way through it and going on almost two years now. $33.95 Each Treats 18,794 Gallons of tap water 5 gallon container @ $33.95 plus shipping. Mike He sells a 1 lb container thatlb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water for $10.95 plus shipping. -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 8:31 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Hi Chris, I cannot recall if I got it from eBay or AquaBid. At various times I have seen it on both. Or I may have gotten it from Kensfish.com. ?http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html?I <http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html?I> don't know Ken, but I buy a lot of stuff from hin. I would recommend him. He sells a 1 lb container thatlb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water for $10.95 plus shipping. His online shop is kind of?aimed at people that keep fish rooms. When I was running 35 tanks buying things in bulk was essential. Salt makes perfect sense for the Mollies and the platies. I really like the wild type Mollies. I would like to set up and outside pond for them sometime. -Mike Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Chris <odragonmommy@... <mailto:odragonmommy%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 5:01 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Mike Thanks. Where do you get the ChlorAmX ? ? Is that a common thing like at Petsmart? I use aquarium salt because I have molly's and platy's...only a little bit 3tbs for my 16g..... thanks again, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > As for treating water I use ChlorAmX. The powder which is used to make things like Amquel. Buying it in powder form allows me to buy it in bulk and I can treat thousands and thousands of gallons of water. If I did not use the ChlorAmX I would use Amquel, but I would skip Amquel+. I just don't need the extra stuff it offers most of the time. > > I cannot even recall who makes my test kit. Maybe API? Once I am up and running and making regular water changes I almost never test. I don't often salt my tanks and I Never alter the pH with buffers. > > my 2 cents. > > -Mike > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are > bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <odragonmommy@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 1:30 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > > > > > > OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the > tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra > brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct > ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the > API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are > bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , joe t <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are > in a BUSINESS. > > > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the > stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more > fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money > selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. > They think they are doing something wonderful because the water > "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier > to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. > ..............and the beat goes on. > > > > joe t > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.14/1425 - Release Date: 5/9/2008 12:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27748	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Bio Cubes

Dora, Some of the info you related had more to do with FW fish tanks where this thread is about a SW fish tank. Generally speaking for SW fish, they need harder water and higher pH so the crushed coral substrate isn't necessarily a bad thing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Walker Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 6:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Bio Cubes As i said, this isnt my tank, I just told her I would post on here for her. Its just with doing such a small tank I didnt know if there was something you suggest shouldbe a must have for her. I did tell her that about the crushed coral already, I said she should have went with the sand, she went with coral as someone else told her that she needed it. --- Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > Sounds like you should start with a couple of books on how to set up > an aquarium. Of course we're glad to help, but to start from scratch? > > Is there sucfh a thing as a newby list of aquarium web sites? > > One thing; crushed coral for gravel will add hardness and raise the pH > of hte water, and some fish need neutral to acidic. It's particularly > a bad idea if you have hard, alkaline water. You can get quartz gravel > if you shop around a bit. Petco may have it. I got some online, and > more from a local aquarium store. It often comes coated in acrylic. > But if it's quartz it shouldn't adversely affect the water chemistry. > > On the other hand if you're doing salt water fish, no problem. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.14/1425 - Release Date: 5/9/2008 12:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27749	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Fw: water garden update

----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Rattie To: Watergardening@yahoogroups.com ; YG Pond and Plants Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 12:14 PM Subject: water garden update Yesterday we did some yard work and I did some maintenance on the watergarden. Every now and than the black tube that is connected to the water pump needs to be PURGED aka disconnected from the pump and our bio filter due to clogging so we hook it up to the garden hose and run water both ways to disalodged gunk. A few weeks ago someone suggested a few things about our water lilly. I found in our cupboard some fertilizer spikes from laguna that only need to be replaced once a year. Two weeks ago I put it in the Water Hawthorne and one in the Water Lilly. Water Lilly has 3 new sprouts coming out of the pot and the Hawthorne has a ton of its leaves. We have already seen blooms on the Hawthorne. When we bought some plants for the pond awhile back mail the seller included something that looked like a four leaf clover but bot the type I am familiar with but I think it might be Frogbit. Its not potted its a floater that is doing very well. My partner did what I call a hack job on the overgrrowrth of bog plants that make up our biological filter. The Creeping Jenny looks fantastic and both the Rushes bouncing back. Last year we had to tear down the biological filter but did things different this year. We do not have a LARGE pond its a water garden made up a livestock feeding trough that was never used and bought from Home Depot. Filtration is provided by the premade forms that are often used for waterfalls. Each compartment has gravel of varying sizes and bog plants whose roots absorb the nutrients/wastes. The fish are getting VERY friendly. Every day when I feed them I swish a clean finger in the water to get their attention and they come swimming close even some of the bigger ones let rub their bellies or gently along their backs.~ I will take some photos when the weather get better and post them to my own homepage like I did last year. That will have to wait till after I get done with a current project I am doing on my homepage. Rick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27750	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Fw: water garden update

You might want to put a DIY pump pre-filter around your pump which would add additional bio/mechanical filtration and keep the line from getting clogged up. I have an article on my blog (Under Labels - DIY Pond Filter) on how to make this very effective pre-filter for around $10.00 or you may have all the materials laying around already. You can try this link but YahooGroups often will break up longer links. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/pond-maintenance-q-about-algae-bloom.h tml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Rattie Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:16 PM To: YG Pond and Plants; YG Aquatic Life; YG A Garden With Water; YG Pond Keeper Subject: [AquaticLife] Fw: water garden update ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Rattie To: Watergardening@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Watergardening%40yahoogroups.com> ; YG Pond and Plants Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 12:14 PM Subject: water garden update Yesterday we did some yard work and I did some maintenance on the watergarden. Every now and than the black tube that is connected to the water pump needs to be PURGED aka disconnected from the pump and our bio filter due to clogging so we hook it up to the garden hose and run water both ways to disalodged gunk. A few weeks ago someone suggested a few things about our water lilly. I found in our cupboard some fertilizer spikes from laguna that only need to be replaced once a year. Two weeks ago I put it in the Water Hawthorne and one in the Water Lilly. Water Lilly has 3 new sprouts coming out of the pot and the Hawthorne has a ton of its leaves. We have already seen blooms on the Hawthorne. When we bought some plants for the pond awhile back mail the seller included something that looked like a four leaf clover but bot the type I am familiar with but I think it might be Frogbit. Its not potted its a floater that is doing very well. My partner did what I call a hack job on the overgrrowrth of bog plants that make up our biological filter. The Creeping Jenny looks fantastic and both the Rushes bouncing back. Last year we had to tear down the biological filter but did things different this year. We do not have a LARGE pond its a water garden made up a livestock feeding trough that was never used and bought from Home Depot. Filtration is provided by the premade forms that are often used for waterfalls. Each compartment has gravel of varying sizes and bog plants whose roots absorb the nutrients/wastes. The fish are getting VERY friendly. Every day when I feed them I swish a clean finger in the water to get their attention and they come swimming close even some of the bigger ones let rub their bellies or gently along their backs.~ I will take some photos when the weather get better and post them to my own homepage like I did last year. That will have to wait till after I get done with a current project I am doing on my homepage. Rick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.14/1425 - Release Date: 5/9/2008 12:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27751	From: babsdvs	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Sea Shells

I picked up a bunch of nice sea shells today at the beach and wonder if there is anything I should do to them (other than soaking) before adding to a FW tank. Are there any shells that should be avoided? Barbara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27752	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: All natural fish treatments?

Does anyone have a list of all natural fish treatments, what they can be used for and their dosages? (I don't use antibiotics on myself and I'll have a little one around soon so I don't want antibiotics around the house at all.) I'm thinking things like salt dips... although I've recently heard about peroxide dips, iodine dips (with lugols), etc. Can't find as much info on them as the salt though... I don't have any sick fish ATM, just trying to get a list together for the future. Was wondering if there were any tried-and-true all natural treatment lists available already. Thanks!! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27753	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Shells

All shells should be avoided, unless you have a tank with hard water. The shells will gradually leach their calcium, raising the hardness of the water. The more acidic your water, the quicker this will happen. If you must use the shells, you should give them a chlorine bleach soak, followed by a good rinsing. Even then, depending on the type of shell, you may not be able to get everything that could rot out of the shell, and that would not be good for your aquarium. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sea Shells I picked up a bunch of nice sea shells today at the beach and wonder if there is anything I should do to them (other than soaking) before adding to a FW tank. Are there any shells that should be avoided? Barbara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27754	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?

A lot will depend on the fish you are treating and what you are treating for. Use of antibiotics and other medications is not to be frowned upon or discarded, but used where appropriate. Heat and salt are my main remedies, but if an antibiotic or other medication is indicated, I would have no problem using it. Other than salt, most other items do have a shelf life, and I would not purchase them until needed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:43 PM To: aquaticlife Subject: [AquaticLife] All natural fish treatments? Does anyone have a list of all natural fish treatments, what they can be used for and their dosages? (I don't use antibiotics on myself and I'll have a little one around soon so I don't want antibiotics around the house at all.) I'm thinking things like salt dips... although I've recently heard about peroxide dips, iodine dips (with lugols), etc. Can't find as much info on them as the salt though... I don't have any sick fish ATM, just trying to get a list together for the future. Was wondering if there were any tried-and-true all natural treatment lists available already. Thanks!! -Lana

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27755	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Bio Cubes

Ah. OK. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Bio Cubes Dora, Some of the info you related had more to do with FW fish tanks where this thread is about a SW fish tank. Generally speaking for SW fish, they need harder water and higher pH so the crushed coral substrate isn't necessarily a bad thing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Walker Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 6:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Bio Cubes As i said, this isnt my tank, I just told her I would post on here for her. Its just with doing such a small tank I didnt know if there was something you suggest shouldbe a must have for her. I did tell her that about the crushed coral already, I said she should have went with the sand, she went with coral as someone else told her that she needed it. --- Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > Sounds like you should start with a couple of books on how to set up > an aquarium. Of course we're glad to help, but to start from scratch? > > Is there sucfh a thing as a newby list of aquarium web sites? > > One thing; crushed coral for gravel will add hardness and raise the pH > of hte water, and some fish need neutral to acidic. It's particularly > a bad idea if you have hard, alkaline water. You can get quartz gravel > if you shop around a bit. Petco may have it. I got some online, and > more from a local aquarium store. It often comes coated in acrylic. > But if it's quartz it shouldn't adversely affect the water chemistry. > > On the other hand if you're doing salt water fish, no problem. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.14/1425 - Release Date: 5/9/2008 12:38 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27756	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?

Question - can otocincluses (sp?) and pgmy coradoras tolerate aquarium salt, and if so, how much? Can they tolerate four tablespoons of salt to 10 gallons instead of two? How about in increasing increments? Something I read on salt for ich said many catfishes can't tolerate salt. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] All natural fish treatments? A lot will depend on the fish you are treating and what you are treating for. Use of antibiotics and other medications is not to be frowned upon or discarded, but used where appropriate. Heat and salt are my main remedies, but if an antibiotic or other medication is indicated, I would have no problem using it. Other than salt, most other items do have a shelf life, and I would not purchase them until needed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:43 PM To: aquaticlife Subject: [AquaticLife] All natural fish treatments? Does anyone have a list of all natural fish treatments, what they can be used for and their dosages? (I don't use antibiotics on myself and I'll have a little one around soon so I don't want antibiotics around the house at all.) I'm thinking things like salt dips... although I've recently heard about peroxide dips, iodine dips (with lugols), etc. Can't find as much info on them as the salt though... I don't have any sick fish ATM, just trying to get a list together for the future. Was wondering if there were any tried-and-true all natural treatment lists available already. Thanks!! -Lana ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27757	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question

Or you could remove the charcoal and then rinse. I've got a spare whisper filter I just did that with - had to atke back the whisper and upgraded to a penguin. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Roberts To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 12:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HOB Question Marine land also sells the filter pouches for one of the other filters (don't remember the name) that are not filled with charcoal. They also sell sheets of the filter material. I am sure you can use foam from other filters and just adapt. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HOB Question One thing not yet mentioned is that you need to find foam without any chemicals added, no mildewcides, mold inhibitors, etc. You need to look for furniture foam. Likely sources are stores that sell upholstery items. Or, you can try these online sources: http://www.aquatice <http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/427/Filter-Foam-Reticulated> co.com/subcategories/427/Filter-Foam-Reticulated http://www.ndi- <http://www.ndi-us.com/products.cfm> us.com/products.cfm (can learn a bunch about it here, but, I suspect you would need to order in a minimum quantity to fill your home from here.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOB Question I've been wondering the same exact thing! I'm very glad Paula asked. I have one additional question in a similar vein: Can you buy foam from the fabric/craft store to use in a fish filter? If so, is there anything in particular that I should be looking for? Thanks! -Lana ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27758	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?

It's probably best not to buy anything until needed. Steve already mentioned salt and heat which does work for many minor to major issues. I do keep and use MelaFix and PimaFix which are both "natural" products although the solution they are in, to keep the meds in suspension, does have a strong sweet smell. I don't mind it but I've heard others complain about the smell. MelaFix is based on Melaleuca (Tea Tree) Oil and PimaFix is also based on another natural tree oil but I don't recall it off the top of my head. They both have a pretty long shelf life and at least I have something available if needed. MelaFix is an antibacterial and PimaFix is an antifungal but when combined, they make a much stronger antibacterial. They will not harm your bio-filtration which is why I use them as a first line of defense before I would think about a stronger antibiotic. Fortunately, I don't have many health issues with my fish... knock on wood! While a salt dip can be used, I don't think an iodine or peroxide dip should be used. I've read about Iodine being used as a topical treatment for various infections, fin rot, etc., on larger fish and Peroxide can be used against certain things but I also think it would be for topical treatment. I'm not sure either of those would be very good for a fishes gills. I have used Peroxide... one ounce per 10G... as a treatment for some hair algae I had growing in a 10G planted tank and I've read that dosage can be used in fish tanks as well as long as the fish aren't in the direct path of the treatment. I used a syringe to deliver the Peroxide directly to the hair algae area. Here's some links to using Peroxide and Iodine... and of course salt. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Kebus_Salt_Treatments.html This next page has lots of Goldfish treatments including how to treat with Iodine and Peroxide when needed. You'll find a lot more treatments for larger fish than most smaller tropical's. Some Goldfish/Koi owners even bring their fish to a vet for shots, etc., when needed. http://thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishIllness.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] All natural fish treatments? A lot will depend on the fish you are treating and what you are treating for. Use of antibiotics and other medications is not to be frowned upon or discarded, but used where appropriate. Heat and salt are my main remedies, but if an antibiotic or other medication is indicated, I would have no problem using it. Other than salt, most other items do have a shelf life, and I would not purchase them until needed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:43 PM To: aquaticlife Subject: [AquaticLife] All natural fish treatments? Does anyone have a list of all natural fish treatments, what they can be used for and their dosages? (I don't use antibiotics on myself and I'll have a little one around soon so I don't want antibiotics around the house at all.) I'm thinking things like salt dips... although I've recently heard about peroxide dips, iodine dips (with lugols), etc. Can't find as much info on them as the salt though... I don't have any sick fish ATM, just trying to get a list together for the future. Was wondering if there were any tried-and-true all natural treatment lists available already. Thanks!! -Lana No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.14/1425 - Release Date: 5/9/2008 12:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27759	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Lenny, does that vary with the amount of chloramine in the water? Austin's city tap water quality reports say that there is 2.2 (range to 2.4) ppm chloramine and .5 ppm ammonia. My own tests of the ammonia in hte tap water are consistent with that. That would have to come from breakdown of chloramines in the water, right? I didn't specifically ask, but they wouldn't be introducing ammonia from another source? On I think another list, someone who was having real trouble with ammonia in a goldfish tank wrote that her water tested at 1.0 ppm of ammonia right out of the tap. I am seriously getting alot of warnings from fish store owners and neighbors with aquariums about ammonia in the water around here. Also about sky high chloramine levels. The kind of water some people treat with two conditioners - though in this case I can see no point in adding a second conditioner that doesn't get rid of ammonia. Since I can't seem to get my ammonia levels much under .25 and my nitrite levels are steadily rising - someplace between 1 and 2.0 today - I do need to make sure I'm not adding it with the water. My research found that hte bacteria that convert nitrites to nitrates will not work in the presence of ammonia, which is why nitrites don't spike until after ammonia spikes. Now, I must say that it is darned hard to read those API ammonia test results. Their yellow and yellow-green are impossible to tell apart in practice, adn so are their two shades of yellow-green. I expect yellow to not look greenish, maybe that is wrong. I did have nitrate level of 5.0, which ought to be impossible if ammonia > 0 if the bacteria won't process nitrites in the presence of ammonia, so maybe the yellow-green is really yellow. Actually the water comes out of the tap with a pH of 9.0. Not kidding - one wonders why on earth I have to take actual antacid. According to the city's water quality reports. My pH kit only measures to 8.8 - and that's what it gets. I bubble air through it and get it to 7.9 before I put it in the tank, and it's been testing at 7.4 to 7.6 since the nitrites began to build up. (City water quality lab person said that because the pH is so high and they actually treat it to that pH to prevent various problems, it easily absorbs CO2 from the air.) Today I added mostly tap water when I changed 3/4 of the water in the tank (had to take out most of the water to put new plastic and tarp under the tank, and never changed ater at all yesterday because the carpet was uncovered to dry out). So we'll see what the pH is tomorrow! I have added salt to the tank. I'm trying to keep the temperature around 76. I did try an ammonia reducing polyfilter one day, but it didn't actually work and people told me it wouldn't if the ph is that high. The fish store had said it would help the sick tetras I had at that time. I only hda intended to use it for a short time, because I can see that if I remove all the ammonia the tank will never cycle. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Dora, In a fully cycled tank, when doing a 25% PWC with chloramine treated tap water, you would only be introducing 0.125ppm of ammonia from the chloramine breaking down and that very low level of ammonia would instantly be cycled so you don't need a chemical to treat the ammonia as the nitrifying bacteria will do the job for free. The fish in a fully stocked tank put out 3-5+ppm of ammonia each day so there is nothing to be alarmed about adding 0.125ppm or even 0.5ppm of ammonia in a cycled tank. If your tank isn't fully cycled, then as long as your pH isn't in the 8.0 range, even 0.5ppm of ammonia isn't too bad but if someone is stuck with cycling with fish, then using an ammonia detoxifying product isn't the worse thing in the world. It's better to use an ammonia detoxifying product rather than one of the ammonia removing filter medias (zeolite) which would then technically starve the nitrifying bacteria so you would never get a healthy colony growing and would be stuck with having to use that filter media forever. Zeolite type products are -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27760	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?

Corydoras, as a whole, are not intolerant of salt. They do, for the most part, come from salt free waters, however. But there are well over one hundred species of Corydoras, so it is difficult to make broad statements about them. I think it is safe to say that Corydoras can stand some salt added to the water on a short term basis. If one needs to treat a whole tank with salt, I would err on the side of caution and move the corys to another tank during the course of treatment. I am not aware of any salt problems with Otocinculus species. I have only heard of the no salt treatment with corys. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 8:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] All natural fish treatments? Question - can otocincluses (sp?) and pgmy coradoras tolerate aquarium salt, and if so, how much? Can they tolerate four tablespoons of salt to 10 gallons instead of two? How about in increasing increments? Something I read on salt for ich said many catfishes can't tolerate salt. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] All natural fish treatments? A lot will depend on the fish you are treating and what you are treating for. Use of antibiotics and other medications is not to be frowned upon or discarded, but used where appropriate. Heat and salt are my main remedies, but if an antibiotic or other medication is indicated, I would have no problem using it. Other than salt, most other items do have a shelf life, and I would not purchase them until needed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:43 PM To: aquaticlife Subject: [AquaticLife] All natural fish treatments? Does anyone have a list of all natural fish treatments, what they can be used for and their dosages? (I don't use antibiotics on myself and I'll have a little one around soon so I don't want antibiotics around the house at all.) I'm thinking things like salt dips... although I've recently heard about peroxide dips, iodine dips (with lugols), etc. Can't find as much info on them as the salt though... I don't have any sick fish ATM, just trying to get a list together for the future. Was wondering if there were any tried-and-true all natural treatment lists available already. Thanks!! -Lana

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

See my blog article about Chlorine/Chloramine. It has a series of emails between me and one of the scientists at my local water utility explaining about what they actually report and what is actually in the water. The 0.5ppm ammonia is consistent with the ammonia that is found in chloramine. Ammonia could be coming from other sources besides chloramine, depending on the source of your water, since ammonia is one of the by-products of decomposing matter everywhere on earth.. just like in our tanks, cat-litter boxes, etc. Ammonia in your water is the least of your worries since it will easily be converted to nitrite>nitrate by the nitrogen cycle. It's all the other stuff that you have to worry about and treat for... chlorine, heavy metals, etc. While your concerns for ammonia are warranted, since you are trying to cycle with fish, it's not a level to worry about in a healthy fully cycled tank... and it's not even a level to worry about in a cycling with fish tank since it's such a low level. If people would just fishless cycle like I stress so often, all of this would be mute. While Cycling With Fish, YOU DON'T WANT ZERO AMMONIA until the cycling process has completed its cycle.. 2-6 weeks. If you don't have ammonia, you'll never get the proper nitrifying bacteria growing. You need 0.5ppm to 1.0ppm (depending on pH and temp) when cycling with fish so you can grow the N-bacteria and not harm the fish too much. Dora said: "My research found that the bacteria that convert nitrites to nitrates will not work in the presence of ammonia, which is why nitrites don't spike until after ammonia spikes." Your research is wrong or you misunderstood it. The bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate works and lives alongside the bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite. It comes out the fish as ammonia first (via Gill Function and Urine and decomposing waste), then is converted to nitrite, then to nitrate. In a fully cycled tank, there is a constant source of ammonia being converted to nitrite being converted to nitrate almost instantaneously on a constantly ongoing basis as the water flows through the filter media where the various N-bacteria mostly grow. Since you have a high pH out the tap (9.0) and it then stabilizes to 7.4-7.6, you should NEVER do large water changes like you did today, right out of the tap. You don't want to change the pH of the tank more than 0.2 at any one time so the fish will not suffer from pH shock. If you do a 25% PWC and the difference is 1.5, you are raising the pH by 0.375 which is nearly twice the recommended level. You might either have to start aging your water in 5G buckets so it outgases/oxidizes all of the buffers they are adding or do only 10% PWC's on a more frequent basis with water directly from the tap. You could probably get away with a 25% PWC if you allow the refill process to take a long time so the fish aren't hit with such a drastic change too quickly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 7:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Lenny, does that vary with the amount of chloramine in the water? Austin's city tap water quality reports say that there is 2.2 (range to 2.4) ppm chloramine and .5 ppm ammonia. My own tests of the ammonia in hte tap water are consistent with that. That would have to come from breakdown of chloramines in the water, right? I didn't specifically ask, but they wouldn't be introducing ammonia from another source? On I think another list, someone who was having real trouble with ammonia in a goldfish tank wrote that her water tested at 1.0 ppm of ammonia right out of the tap. I am seriously getting alot of warnings from fish store owners and neighbors with aquariums about ammonia in the water around here. Also about sky high chloramine levels. The kind of water some people treat with two conditioners - though in this case I can see no point in adding a second conditioner that doesn't get rid of ammonia. Since I can't seem to get my ammonia levels much under .25 and my nitrite levels are steadily rising - someplace between 1 and 2.0 today - I do need to make sure I'm not adding it with the water. My research found that hte bacteria that convert nitrites to nitrates will not work in the presence of ammonia, which is why nitrites don't spike until after ammonia spikes. Now, I must say that it is darned hard to read those API ammonia test results. Their yellow and yellow-green are impossible to tell apart in practice, adn so are their two shades of yellow-green. I expect yellow to not look greenish, maybe that is wrong. I did have nitrate level of 5.0, which ought to be impossible if ammonia > 0 if the bacteria won't process nitrites in the presence of ammonia, so maybe the yellow-green is really yellow. Actually the water comes out of the tap with a pH of 9.0. Not kidding - one wonders why on earth I have to take actual antacid. According to the city's water quality reports. My pH kit only measures to 8.8 - and that's what it gets. I bubble air through it and get it to 7.9 before I put it in the tank, and it's been testing at 7.4 to 7.6 since the nitrites began to build up. (City water quality lab person said that because the pH is so high and they actually treat it to that pH to prevent various problems, it easily absorbs CO2 from the air.) Today I added mostly tap water when I changed 3/4 of the water in the tank (had to take out most of the water to put new plastic and tarp under the tank, and never changed ater at all yesterday because the carpet was uncovered to dry out). So we'll see what the pH is tomorrow! I have added salt to the tank. I'm trying to keep the temperature around 76. I did try an ammonia reducing polyfilter one day, but it didn't actually work and people told me it wouldn't if the ph is that high. The fish store had said it would help the sick tetras I had at that time. I only hda intended to use it for a short time, because I can see that if I remove all the ammonia the tank will never cycle. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Dora, In a fully cycled tank, when doing a 25% PWC with chloramine treated tap water, you would only be introducing 0.125ppm of ammonia from the chloramine breaking down and that very low level of ammonia would instantly be cycled so you don't need a chemical to treat the ammonia as the nitrifying bacteria will do the job for free. The fish in a fully stocked tank put out 3-5+ppm of ammonia each day so there is nothing to be alarmed about adding 0.125ppm or even 0.5ppm of ammonia in a cycled tank. If your tank isn't fully cycled, then as long as your pH isn't in the 8.0 range, even 0.5ppm of ammonia isn't too bad but if someone is stuck with cycling with fish, then using an ammonia detoxifying product isn't the worse thing in the world. It's better to use an ammonia detoxifying product rather than one of the ammonia removing filter medias (zeolite) which would then technically starve the nitrifying bacteria so you would never get a healthy colony growing and would be stuck with having to use that filter media forever. Zeolite type products are -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.14/1425 - Release Date: 5/9/2008 12:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27762	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Have to research the rest of this - but no, I didn't put in the water right out of the tap! I bubbled air through it for awhile first - that quickly lowers the ph to 7.9. I've proved that a number of times, and as I pointed out, the city water quality control person told me that's what she'd expect to happen. I also added the first bucket gradually to hte little bit of water that was left in the tank with the fish. Wehre is that chloramine blog you want me to look at? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 8:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? See my blog article about Chlorine/Chloramine. It has a series of emails between me and one of the scientists at my local water utility explaining about what they actually report and what is actually in the water. The 0.5ppm ammonia is consistent with the ammonia that is found in chloramine. Ammonia could be coming from other sources besides chloramine, depending on the source of your water, since ammonia is one of the by-products of decomposing matter everywhere on earth.. just like in our tanks, cat-litter boxes, etc. Since you have a high pH out the tap (9.0) and it then stabilizes to 7.4-7.6, you should NEVER do large water changes like you did today, right out of the tap. You don't want to change the pH of the tank more than 0.2 at any one time so the fish will not suffer from pH shock. If you do a 25% PWC and the difference is 1.5, you are raising the pH by 0.375 which is nearly twice the recommended level. You might either have to start aging your water in 5G buckets so it outgases/oxidizes all of the buffers they are adding or do only 10% PWC's on a more frequent basis with water directly from the tap. You could probably get away with a 25% PWC if you allow the refill process to take a long time so the fish aren't hit with such a drastic change too quickly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27763	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?

> > Steve already mentioned salt and heat which does work for many minor to > major issues. I had read a lot about salt, but hadn't realized heat. It makes sense though because different bacteria have different temperature preferences. I've read a lot of conflicting info about how much salt to use. I have bettas - how much salt would I use for a quick dip (lets say I'm using 1 cup of water)? How much salt per gallon if I were to treat the whole tank on a longer term basis? (I assume the latter would be a lower saline mixture than the former.) > I do keep and use MelaFix and PimaFix which are both "natural" products > although the solution they are in, to keep the meds in suspension, does > have > a strong sweet smell. I don't mind it but I've heard others complain about > the smell. MelaFix is based on Melaleuca (Tea Tree) Oil and PimaFix is > also based on another natural tree oil but I don't recall it off the top of > my head. Thank you very much for pointing this out! I wasn't aware there were all natural meds on the market. I use tea tree oil in my first aid ointment and it really does work very well - and does have some activity against fungus in addition to bacteria. I looked it up and it looks like PimaFix is from the West Indian Bay Tree, which I'm not familiar with but will be looking into. I'm really impressed that a tea tree oil based med would be on the fish market. :) I think you made my day! Fortunately, I don't have many health issues with my fish... knock on wood! > Same here so far! *also knocks on wood* :) I truly believe health comes from preventative measures, such as making sure your water parameters are ideal - but I do want to be prepared in the event of an emergency. > While a salt dip can be used, I don't think an iodine or peroxide dip > should > be used. I've read about Iodine being used as a topical treatment for > various infections, fin rot, etc., on larger fish and Peroxide can be used > against certain things but I also think it would be for topical treatment. > I'm not sure either of those would be very good for a fishes gills. > I was only able to find one reference to an iodine dip and it pertained to saltwater fish (and I have freshwater fish) - since iodine is found naturally in sea water but not so much in fresh water I think the use of diluted iodine as a dip may be restricted to saltwater fish, but that is just my own theory based on what little info I could find. I couldn't find a reliable source to determine the amount of dilution needed nor any references to it being safe for freshwater fish. I have read about peroxide being both a topical and a dip, but you have to dilute it a lot to use it as a dip because it will indeed harm the gills. I did find some directions which said for a 10 second dip, you can use 1 part 3% H2O2 to 9 or 10 parts water. Another set said for a 10 minute dip you'd use 15 mL per L. Thank you very much for the excellent links! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27764	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Fertilizing a Tank

You guys are so great... I was wondering if maybe one of you has had experience with individual fertilizers. I've been gardening for a long time so I have quite a collection of these... green sand, kelp meal, blood meal, bone meal, epsom salt (I also have magnesium chloride for when sulfur isn't needed), etc. When I got my plants I was told to use flourish excel. As much as I'd really love to buy a bottle of pre-formulated stuff, I have spend quite a bit on my existing fertilizer stash and was wondering if anyone here knew enough about it to be able to guide me on what I'd use out of my existing collection to help out my plants. I really don't know what aquatic plants need... iron? potassium? magnesium? sulfur? I was thinking greensand (Fe-K silicate) with a dash of epsom salt (MgS) and maybe some kelp meal for trace minerals. The reason I want to fertilize is that my naja grass is browning. I removed all the slimy parts but it still doesn't seem happy... I can't think of what could be wrong with it other than it not getting enough food. I moved it's location in the tank to one where it would get more light, and moved it away from the filter so it wouldn't be sucked as clean. My main concern is that hornwort has almost tripled since adding it to the tank and I would not be surprised if it is sucking up every spare bit of nourishment in my water - I don't think there's anything left for the naja grass... Thanks!! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27765	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

It's on my blog... link in my sig... look on the right side under Labels or under the Article Names but Labels is the quickest. It's listed under Chlorine or Chloramine sections. I would just post the link but Yahoo breaks up long links so they don't work for most people out here anyhow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 9:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Have to research the rest of this - but no, I didn't put in the water right out of the tap! I bubbled air through it for awhile first - that quickly lowers the ph to 7.9. I've proved that a number of times, and as I pointed out, the city water quality control person told me that's what she'd expect to happen. I also added the first bucket gradually to hte little bit of water that was left in the tank with the fish. Wehre is that chloramine blog you want me to look at? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 8:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? See my blog article about Chlorine/Chloramine. It has a series of emails between me and one of the scientists at my local water utility explaining about what they actually report and what is actually in the water. The 0.5ppm ammonia is consistent with the ammonia that is found in chloramine. Ammonia could be coming from other sources besides chloramine, depending on the source of your water, since ammonia is one of the by-products of decomposing matter everywhere on earth.. just like in our tanks, cat-litter boxes, etc. Since you have a high pH out the tap (9.0) and it then stabilizes to 7.4-7.6, you should NEVER do large water changes like you did today, right out of the tap. You don't want to change the pH of the tank more than 0.2 at any one time so the fish will not suffer from pH shock. If you do a 25% PWC and the difference is 1.5, you are raising the pH by 0.375 which is nearly twice the recommended level. You might either have to start aging your water in 5G buckets so it outgases/oxidizes all of the buffers they are adding or do only 10% PWC's on a more frequent basis with water directly from the tap. You could probably get away with a 25% PWC if you allow the refill process to take a long time so the fish aren't hit with such a drastic change too quickly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.14/1425 - Release Date: 5/9/2008 12:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27766	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2008
Subject: Re: Fertilizing a Tank

Try Chuck's Planted Tank Pages. Here's his list of Articles, one of which is an Introduction to Fertilizers which you may already know more than Chuck but another is his Fertilizer Calculator so maybe it's what you're looking for... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 10:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fertilizing a Tank You guys are so great... I was wondering if maybe one of you has had experience with individual fertilizers. I've been gardening for a long time so I have quite a collection of these... green sand, kelp meal, blood meal, bone meal, epsom salt (I also have magnesium chloride for when sulfur isn't needed), etc. When I got my plants I was told to use flourish excel. As much as I'd really love to buy a bottle of pre-formulated stuff, I have spend quite a bit on my existing fertilizer stash and was wondering if anyone here knew enough about it to be able to guide me on what I'd use out of my existing collection to help out my plants. I really don't know what aquatic plants need... iron? potassium? magnesium? sulfur? I was thinking greensand (Fe-K silicate) with a dash of epsom salt (MgS) and maybe some kelp meal for trace minerals. The reason I want to fertilize is that my naja grass is browning. I removed all the slimy parts but it still doesn't seem happy... I can't think of what could be wrong with it other than it not getting enough food. I moved it's location in the tank to one where it would get more light, and moved it away from the filter so it wouldn't be sucked as clean. My main concern is that hornwort has almost tripled since adding it to the tank and I would not be surprised if it is sucking up every spare bit of nourishment in my water - I don't think there's anything left for the naja grass... Thanks!! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.14/1425 - Release Date: 5/9/2008 12:38 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27767	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo

One of the goals of freecycle is to keep stuff out of the landfill. I have never seen any "trading" in any of the freecycle groups I have been in. If I can keep something out of a landfill I don't have to donate anything, but it is a nice thing to do when there is something you no longer can use.. -Mike In a message dated 5/10/2008 11:39:57 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Freecycle's a good program if you're into active trading. That's a requirement for the program. You can't just receive, you must also give. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27768	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo

Mike, I don't think Dora meant trading per se, but that most of the freecycle groups expect you to offer as well as take. I know that in the group I am with, you cannot post any WANTED items unless you contribute to the group by offering items. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 6:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WoooooooHooooooo One of the goals of freecycle is to keep stuff out of the landfill. I have never seen any "trading" in any of the freecycle groups I have been in. If I can keep something out of a landfill I don't have to donate anything, but it is a nice thing to do when there is something you no longer can use.. -Mike In a message dated 5/10/2008 11:39:57 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Freecycle's a good program if you're into active trading. That's a requirement for the program. You can't just receive, you must also give. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27769	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: mollies

Mollies in the State of Texas are not restricted to the Rio Grande. If the Government ever does construct the immigrant wall that they've been talking about, there are other options as to locations of where to collect wild Sailfin Mollies, as they're found in various other locations in the State, from the drainage systems in the middle of the State to the southwestern part of the State, to portions of the southeast near Galveston (they can inhabit coastal water brackish areas. Some other rivers you might want to consider collecting (if it becomes necessary), although not knowing where you live, would include the Upper Guadalupe River, San Marcos River, Sabine Lake, Brazos River and Nueces River, but like you said -- most any of the offshoots (tributaries) of the Rio Grande which extend up into the State. Any such wall the State may build along the border would/could not include blocking off these tributaries from reaching the Rio Grande. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > > I do not care for the looks of balloon mollies at all. To me, they look deformed and in pain. I cannot fathom why some human thought it would be a good idea to encourage this mollie type. They are sold where I buy most of my fish; I would rather the tank space be given to some sailfins. I have never seen a male sailfin and would love to. > > I keep saying I want to go down to the local river (also known as the Rio Grande) or one of its offshoots and see if I can net any native mollies. However, with all the government's talk of constructing a tall wall to keep out illegal immigrants, I am afraid that the clock is loudly ticking on this idea. > > Beverly in Texas > > Peace, please! > > > --- On Fri, 5/9/08, Richard Rattie <rick2646@...> wrote: > > > From: Richard Rattie <rick2646@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] mollies > > To: "YG Aquatic Life" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, May 9, 2008, 8:17 PM > > > > Btw does anyone find the Balloon Mollies butt ugly? > > > > Rick > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27770	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo

Don't keep everything out of the landfills. Most of the Metro New Orleans area is only here because someone filled in all the swampland first! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 5:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WoooooooHooooooo One of the goals of freecycle is to keep stuff out of the landfill. I have never seen any "trading" in any of the freecycle groups I have been in. If I can keep something out of a landfill I don't have to donate anything, but it is a nice thing to do when there is something you no longer can use.. -Mike In a message dated 5/10/2008 11:39:57 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> writes: Freecycle's a good program if you're into active trading. That's a requirement for the program. You can't just receive, you must also give. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.15/1426 - Release Date: 5/10/2008 11:12 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27771	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Salt and Mollies

There has been some talk about the addition of salt to tanks lately. I just read an article by Robert Ellerman that appears in the latest issue of the ALA publication LIVEBEARERS. "The Giant Sailfin Mollies of Central America: _Poecilia velifera_ and _Poecilia petenensis_". In this article, he covers his history of keeping various mollies, especially with relation to the two species in the title. I should note that I have the submission he made to the publication, and not the actual published article, which had some editing done prior to publication. As I understand it, the editing removed some of the taxonomic discussion he had in the original submission. But, back to the point. I am including here a paragraph from his discussion on his tank conditions for these fish, and I will let this stand by itself. "Each species was placed in its own 55 gallon aquarium in an extremely sunny room. The tanks were each filtered by a large Eheim canister filter - Professional Model # 2226 I believe -- and sponge filtered power heads for simple water movement - so necessary for good sailfin molly development. I maintained a temperature range in the tanks from 78-84 F. The tanks were bare bottom but contained multiple clay pots of various species of aquarium plants. Drift wood with attached Java Fern was also included as a decoration. Both tanks contained a large population of pond and red ramshorn snails. Each aquarium received massive water changes 2-3 times a week - around 80-90 %. Local Houston tap water runs a pH of about 7.8 and has a GH and KH both around 18 which is the perfect water -- hard and alkaline -- for sailfin mollies. Nothing else was added to the water - especially not salt. In the early 1970's, Dr. Norton exploded the age old myth that mollies required salt in their water. She found that salt did not matter with mollies one way or the other, but space, water movement and cleanliness did. Now, I'm sure there are populations and species of mollies that do need salt in their water but the sailfin species - or at least the vast majority of their populations and domesticated varieties - are not those species. I would guess that the salt habit was formed from its use as an all purpose disease treatment in stores and home aquariums in the early years of the hobby (It still works well on some diseases - like velvet.), from the fact that latipinna and velifera populations exist in brackish to salt water in the wild (I'm not sure about petenensis populations) and from the fact that the area of the country where the hobby originated - the Northeast - often has rather neutral to soft and slightly acid water and salt helped make this water more suitable for the keeping of these species. Sailfin mollies do not usually like soft acid water." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27772	From: rick linboom	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo

just to chime in here's a new recycle network that is supposed to be less demanding than freecycle....its called ....www.reuseitnetwork.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27773	From: thee_raven2006	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?

We treated our tropical tank with salt for velvet and have a cory cat and had no problems with the cat but lost 2 small angels shortly afterwards. The other 2 along with the other fish seem to be thriving now. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Question - can otocincluses (sp?) and pgmy coradoras tolerate aquarium salt, and if so, how much? Can they tolerate four tablespoons of salt to 10 gallons instead of two? How about in increasing increments? > > Something I read on salt for ich said many catfishes can't tolerate salt. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] All natural fish treatments? > > > A lot will depend on the fish you are treating and what you are treating > for. Use of antibiotics and other medications is not to be frowned upon > or discarded, but used where appropriate. Heat and salt are my main > remedies, but if an antibiotic or other medication is indicated, I would > have no problem using it. Other than salt, most other items do have a > shelf life, and I would not purchase them until needed. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons > Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:43 PM > To: aquaticlife > Subject: [AquaticLife] All natural fish treatments? > > Does anyone have a list of all natural fish treatments, what they can be > used for and their dosages? (I don't use antibiotics on myself and I'll > have a little one around soon so I don't want antibiotics around the > house > at all.) > > I'm thinking things like salt dips... although I've recently heard about > peroxide dips, iodine dips (with lugols), etc. Can't find as much info > on > them as the salt though... > > I don't have any sick fish ATM, just trying to get a list together for > the > future. Was wondering if there were any tried-and-true all natural > treatment lists available already. Thanks!! > > -Lana > > > > > ---------- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27774	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

The two products I constantly see recommended to treat the tap water are Prime and Amquel. I'm using Prime. Have Amquel but haven't tried it. Prome contains a fish conditoiner amquel doesn't. I think the post below specifically speaks to using water conditioners to threat ammonia and nitrite spikes when your tank is cycling, not to which brand. Prime and Amquel both treat ammonia and nitrites as well as chlorine and chloramine - and many tap water conditioners that claim to treat chloramine don't remove teh ammonia that is created by that process. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are in a BUSINESS. > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. They think they are doing something wonderful because the water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > joe t > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27775	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

I saw it. I get this url http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Chloramine I actually did such an experiment as you describe. It takes about 3 ml of Prime to get the chloramine AND ammonia out of 2 to 2.5 gallons of tap water. The ph of water fresh from the tap is 8.8+. In a glass the ph goes down, but in a bucket it does not even overnight, unless you bubble air through it with an airstone, in which case it goes down very quickly. 7.9 is the typical ph after I bubble air through it and add 2/3 gallon of distilled water to fill a three gallon bucket. Since the ph in my tank keeps getting lower, yesterday I used only tap water, but then I added less than half a gallon of distilled water because the tank wasn't quite full after adding back three gallons of tap water. ph in my tank this morning is 7.6. It barely went up. Ammonia and nitrates both went down, and nitrites are down a little. This isn't a full 24 hours. Nitrites are between 1.0 and 2.0. Fish were seriously stressed in their little bit of water left in the tank, but once I began to add fresh oxygenated water they did fine. (Remember that the purpose of emptying the tank was to move it around while improving the waterproofing of the floor underneath it, because the carpet had gotten wet - everytning was shut off.) Last night and this morning one of them is just a little too quiet and off his feed. None of them ate as much as yesterday, when they ate ALOT. Maybe tehy simply aren't starving. Two of them came for the food but they didn't catch it as well. I'd been carefully feeding them only a very small amount at a time. I could have put some of the original tank water back, but I didn't have the heart to put back all that smelly water with nitrite level of 2.0. Besides which I actually cleaned alot of debris off the gravel. Should I give him antibiotic if he doesn't perk up after I do a partial water change? There is salt in the tank - equal to two tsps per three gallons of water. Should I increase it? Should I add some Cycle to the filter tank, or wait and see how bad the long term effect of the drastic water change is on my cycling? It looks as if I have little working nitrobacter or nitrospira. Ammonia is under .25 (search me what 0 looks like with that API kit), nitrites are high enough, but less has been converted to nitrates than yesterday. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? It's on my blog... link in my sig... look on the right side under Labels or under the Article Names but Labels is the quickest. It's listed under Chlorine or Chloramine sections. I would just post the link but Yahoo breaks up long links so they don't work for most people out here anyhow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27776	From: Keri	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: All Natural Treatments

Sorry I had to make a new thread. For some reason yahoo would not open a reply message. I don't like using the meds either. For ich I use Primafix and rasie my tempature to above 80. I ended up with a fish with velvet and started using Melafix in the tank and he is getting better. Both Melafix and Primafix all natural and cures fungus, bacteria and scale problems. I also use salt in all my tanks I do have Ott cats and Cory Dories and have no problem with them. I have 2 teaspoons per gallon in each tank. Some of the fish I have include: Sharks (almost every kind), Dinusaur eel, headstanders, Spotted Leaf Fish, Snowflake & Tiretrack eels, Tiger Shovelnose Cat, Redtail Cat adn Silver Dollars. I hope this helps you some. I do keep Primafix and Melafix on hand at all times I beleive it is a good product, smells some, but is good. Keri

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27777	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo

Oh, my - I wonder what archeologists would find if they excavated under the city? Lenny, you live in New Orleans? Don't most of the fish live in your front yard? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 8:45 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] WoooooooHooooooo Don't keep everything out of the landfills. Most of the Metro New Orleans area is only here because someone filled in all the swampland first! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27778	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Fertilizing a Tank

Thanks Lenny, It is definitely a good start. I wish his calculator included more compounds, but I should be able to extract enough info from his site to figure this out. I love his plant symptom chart - it is very similar to land based charts (for some reason I expected it not to be - submersed plants just look so different to me when they have issues) so I think I'm looking at either a potassium or copper deficiency - possibly low nitrogen but I think I'm going to dose the greensand first and see how that goes. -Lana On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Try Chuck's Planted Tank Pages. Here's his list of Articles, one of which > is an Introduction to Fertilizers which you may already know more than > Chuck > but another is his Fertilizer Calculator so maybe it's what you're looking > for... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm<http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/articles.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Dora, You are still putting far too much emphasis and worrying about the minute amount of ammonia coming from chloramine. It's usually only 0.5ppm and then when only doing a 10% to 25% PWC, you're talking 0.05ppm to 0.125ppm of ammonia... an amount equal to about what one fish might pee. Your bio-filtration should easily handle this minute amount of ammonia immediately upon it going into the tank.. just like it does your fishes urine and ammonia released via gill function and decaying detritus. There is no need for people to spend extra money on Prime or Amquel if they have properly functioning tanks. If the tanks aren't properly functioning, then they have other problems and Prime/Amquel are not necessarily the answer but rather doing proper tank maintenance, filter maintenance and keeping the tank properly stocked. Don't throw chemicals at every minor problem in an aquarium. Fix or don't create the minor problems in the first place and you'll likely never have major problems. One day, you'll actually do a V-8 smack to your forehead and say... "Oh, now I see what Lenny is talking about!" Until then, you will continue to have water quality issues, fish illnesses, etc.... and continue to waste money on trying chemical fixes when the "natural" solution is so simple. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? The two products I constantly see recommended to treat the tap water are Prime and Amquel. I'm using Prime. Have Amquel but haven't tried it. Prome contains a fish conditoiner amquel doesn't. I think the post below specifically speaks to using water conditioners to threat ammonia and nitrite spikes when your tank is cycling, not to which brand. Prime and Amquel both treat ammonia and nitrites as well as chlorine and chloramine - and many tap water conditioners that claim to treat chloramine don't remove teh ammonia that is created by that process. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are in a BUSINESS. > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. They think they are doing something wonderful because the water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > joe t > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.15/1426 - Release Date: 5/10/2008 11:12 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27780	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo

Freecycle is great! I just picked up a HOB off of it, although I truly pity the fish that likely died in the tank it was on - took several hours of soaking to be able to get the grime off of it, and I'm still trying to get the junk out of the nooks and crannies... -Lana On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > Another good place to keep an eye out is freecycle and similar lists. I > got > one of my 55's off of it. They just recently had a couple of 55's with > stands listed�what a shame I didn't have any room for them *grin* > > > > Eric [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27781	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo

You don't have to post a WANTED to get fish supplies - actually, I find WANTEDs are quite useless as I tried for weeks to get a fish tank that way. At least on my groups, no one looks at the WANTEDs. I've gotten everything from OFFER posts and there are no restrictions to who can receive an OFFER. -Lana On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 8:09 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > Mike, > > I don't think Dora meant trading per se, but that most of the freecycle > groups expect you to offer as well as take. I know that in the group I am > with, you cannot post any WANTED items unless you contribute to the group by > offering items. > > \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27782	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Iodine and shrimp?

My research into tank cleaning shrimp says that they need iodine to thrive. But I understand that the amount of iodine in common table salt kills tropical fish. How do you supply the needs of shrimp for iodine without killing the tropical fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27783	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Lenny, I understand that .5 ppm of ammonia is lethal to fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:45 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Dora, You are still putting far too much emphasis and worrying about the minute amount of ammonia coming from chloramine. It's usually only 0.5ppm and then when only doing a 10% to 25% PWC, you're talking 0.05ppm to 0.125ppm of ammonia... an amount equal to about what one fish might pee. Your bio-filtration should easily handle this minute amount of ammonia immediately upon it going into the tank.. just like it does your fishes urine and ammonia released via gill function and decaying detritus. There is no need for people to spend extra money on Prime or Amquel if they have properly functioning tanks. If the tanks aren't properly functioning, then they have other problems and Prime/Amquel are not necessarily the answer but rather doing proper tank maintenance, filter maintenance and keeping the tank properly stocked. Don't throw chemicals at every minor problem in an aquarium. Fix or don't create the minor problems in the first place and you'll likely never have major problems. One day, you'll actually do a V-8 smack to your forehead and say... "Oh, now I see what Lenny is talking about!" Until then, you will continue to have water quality issues, fish illnesses, etc.... and continue to waste money on trying chemical fixes when the "natural" solution is so simple. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? The two products I constantly see recommended to treat the tap water are Prime and Amquel. I'm using Prime. Have Amquel but haven't tried it. Prome contains a fish conditoiner amquel doesn't. I think the post below specifically speaks to using water conditioners to threat ammonia and nitrite spikes when your tank is cycling, not to which brand. Prime and Amquel both treat ammonia and nitrites as well as chlorine and chloramine - and many tap water conditioners that claim to treat chloramine don't remove teh ammonia that is created by that process. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are in a BUSINESS. > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. They think they are doing something wonderful because the water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > joe t > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.15/1426 - Release Date: 5/10/2008 11:12 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27784	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?

Dora, Again, you need to do more thorough research. Iodine found in table salt is not a fish killer. What gave rise to this idea was the anti-caking compound that was used in table salt many years ago to keep the salt free flowing was the most likely cause. I don't have the reference handy, and do not recall what the anti-caking agent at the time was. However, today, there is no such fear, and one can use table salt in a pinch (so to speak, no pun was intended) to treat your tank when the use of salt is indicated. When I have it, I use a marine salt mix in my tanks. This contains iodine as one of the ingredients. Table salt, however, contains about 10 times as much iodine as does marine salt, but it still is a very small amount and does not pose a danger to your fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? My research into tank cleaning shrimp says that they need iodine to thrive. But I understand that the amount of iodine in common table salt kills tropical fish. How do you supply the needs of shrimp for iodine without killing the tropical fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27785	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

The toxicity of ammonia (NH3) varies on a number of factors. First and foremost is the fish's ability to handle the presence of ammonia. pH affect toxicity with higher pH having the effect of a lower ammonia toxicity value. Aeration also plays a role. In water where the oxygen is somewhat depleted, ammonia will exhibit greater toxicity since ammonia affects the hemoglobin in the fish's blood. With less oxygen available, it is harder for the fish to overcome the effect of the ammonia. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Lenny, I understand that .5 ppm of ammonia is lethal to fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:45 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Dora, You are still putting far too much emphasis and worrying about the minute amount of ammonia coming from chloramine. It's usually only 0.5ppm and then when only doing a 10% to 25% PWC, you're talking 0.05ppm to 0.125ppm of ammonia... an amount equal to about what one fish might pee. Your bio-filtration should easily handle this minute amount of ammonia immediately upon it going into the tank.. just like it does your fishes urine and ammonia released via gill function and decaying detritus. There is no need for people to spend extra money on Prime or Amquel if they have properly functioning tanks. If the tanks aren't properly functioning, then they have other problems and Prime/Amquel are not necessarily the answer but rather doing proper tank maintenance, filter maintenance and keeping the tank properly stocked. Don't throw chemicals at every minor problem in an aquarium. Fix or don't create the minor problems in the first place and you'll likely never have major problems. One day, you'll actually do a V-8 smack to your forehead and say... "Oh, now I see what Lenny is talking about!" Until then, you will continue to have water quality issues, fish illnesses, etc.... and continue to waste money on trying chemical fixes when the "natural" solution is so simple. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? The two products I constantly see recommended to treat the tap water are Prime and Amquel. I'm using Prime. Have Amquel but haven't tried it. Prome contains a fish conditoiner amquel doesn't. I think the post below specifically speaks to using water conditioners to threat ammonia and nitrite spikes when your tank is cycling, not to which brand. Prime and Amquel both treat ammonia and nitrites as well as chlorine and chloramine - and many tap water conditioners that claim to treat chloramine don't remove teh ammonia that is created by that process. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are in a BUSINESS. > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. They think they are doing something wonderful because the water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > joe t > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27786	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Dora, You understand wrong and you shouldn't make a blanket statement like that without citing a source. I do not like to waste my time giving you long answers with links to supporting pages for all of the information I supply because I like to type. I do it to try and make you and other readers more knowledgeable fish keepers. Please read the pages of information I supply or take me at my word but you really need to decide who you want to believe... me and others in this group or the unknown and undisclosed "others" that you constantly refer to. Tell me where you are getting all of your stupid and/or ignorant information from (I'm not calling you stupid/ignorant... only whatever sources you are relying on besides me and other experienced fish keepers on this list) and I'll be happy to visit that forum and set them straight.. until then, I'm about to call it quits with trying to help you. It's like you relish in challenging everything I say and it's fine to challenge me but show me your proof.. provide a link, an article or something other than your "understanding" or "others said" type BS. So.. until you start supplying me with links to references for your un-referenced conclusions, I'll no longer reply to your posts. Sorry but I'm wearing down my fingertips... and my patience... trying to make you a more knowledgeable fish keeper and you simply refuse to read any or all of the supporting GOOD information I try to give you. BTW... one last time.. here's the page explaining ammonia toxicity and it's all about the pH and temperature of the water that makes ammonia toxic. pH in the high 7's or 8's and high temps over 80F can make that level of ammonia toxic but average or low pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 and temps below 80F make 0.5ppm and even 1.0ppm ammonia levels non-toxic to most FW fish. Now here's the page showing that 0.5ppm ammonia doesn't become toxic unless the pH is over 8.0 and the temp is over 80F... http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm Now, generally, it's not good to have any amount of ammonia but it's a far cry from being toxic or "lethal" at such low levels and you must have an ammonia level when cycling with fish or you will never grow your nitrifying bacteria... they need ammonia to eat to start the cycling process. Once again... fishless cycling would have prevented all of the problems you are having for the past several weeks... and by now, your tank would have been fully cycled without harming or killing a single fish or spending so much of your own time doing PWC's, buying meds, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Lenny, I understand that .5 ppm of ammonia is lethal to fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:45 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Dora, You are still putting far too much emphasis and worrying about the minute amount of ammonia coming from chloramine. It's usually only 0.5ppm and then when only doing a 10% to 25% PWC, you're talking 0.05ppm to 0.125ppm of ammonia... an amount equal to about what one fish might pee. Your bio-filtration should easily handle this minute amount of ammonia immediately upon it going into the tank.. just like it does your fishes urine and ammonia released via gill function and decaying detritus. There is no need for people to spend extra money on Prime or Amquel if they have properly functioning tanks. If the tanks aren't properly functioning, then they have other problems and Prime/Amquel are not necessarily the answer but rather doing proper tank maintenance, filter maintenance and keeping the tank properly stocked. Don't throw chemicals at every minor problem in an aquarium. Fix or don't create the minor problems in the first place and you'll likely never have major problems. One day, you'll actually do a V-8 smack to your forehead and say... "Oh, now I see what Lenny is talking about!" Until then, you will continue to have water quality issues, fish illnesses, etc.... and continue to waste money on trying chemical fixes when the "natural" solution is so simple. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? The two products I constantly see recommended to treat the tap water are Prime and Amquel. I'm using Prime. Have Amquel but haven't tried it. Prome contains a fish conditoiner amquel doesn't. I think the post below specifically speaks to using water conditioners to threat ammonia and nitrite spikes when your tank is cycling, not to which brand. Prime and Amquel both treat ammonia and nitrites as well as chlorine and chloramine - and many tap water conditioners that claim to treat chloramine don't remove teh ammonia that is created by that process. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are in a BUSINESS. > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. They think they are doing something wonderful because the water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > joe t > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.15/1426 - Release Date: 5/10/2008 11:12 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 1:08 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27787	From: bmp	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: mollies

Thanks for the list of rivers Raymond. Which of those locations have you tried? How easy was it for you to gain access to the water and how dangerous was it? I'm very curious to know. The Rio Grande is so close to me (something like 5-7 miles from my front door) so it is certainly the most convenient place for me. I live in Hidalgo County, Texas. There are many local folks concerned about the impact of the wall on the bird and butterfly populations and migrations, as well as the economic and political impact of a tall, concrete barrier. It is the hottest topic down here so we hope there are folks in other parts of the country who are also aware of these powerful concerns. Life used to be much simpler, it seems to me. Beverly Peace, please! --- On Sun, 5/11/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: mollies > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, May 11, 2008, 7:13 AM > Mollies in the State of Texas are not restricted to the Rio > Grande. > If the Government ever does construct the immigrant wall > that they've > been talking about, there are other options as to locations > of where > to collect wild Sailfin Mollies, as they're found in > various other > locations in the State, from the drainage systems in the > middle of > the State to the southwestern part of the State, to > portions of the > southeast near Galveston (they can inhabit coastal water > brackish > areas. Some other rivers you might want to consider > collecting (if > it becomes necessary), although not knowing where you live, > would > include the Upper Guadalupe River, San Marcos River, Sabine > Lake, > Brazos River and Nueces River, but like you said -- most > any of the > offshoots (tributaries) of the Rio Grande which extend up > into the > State. Any such wall the State may build along the border > would/could not include blocking off these tributaries from > reaching > the Rio Grande. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bmp > <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Rick, > > > > I do not care for the looks of balloon mollies at all. > To me, they > look deformed and in pain. I cannot fathom why some human > thought it > would be a good idea to encourage this mollie type. They > are sold > where I buy most of my fish; I would rather the tank space > be given > to some sailfins. I have never seen a male sailfin and > would love to. > > > > I keep saying I want to go down to the local river > (also known as > the Rio Grande) or one of its offshoots and see if I can > net any > native mollies. However, with all the government's talk > of > constructing a tall wall to keep out illegal immigrants, I > am afraid > that the clock is loudly ticking on this idea. > > > > Beverly in Texas > > > > Peace, please! > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/9/08, Richard Rattie > <rick2646@...> wrote: > > > > > From: Richard Rattie <rick2646@...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] mollies > > > To: "YG Aquatic Life" > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, May 9, 2008, 8:17 PM > > > > > > Btw does anyone find the Balloon Mollies butt > ugly? > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27788	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?

Iodine in common table salt DOES NOT kill tropical or cool water fish and generally, it's not needed for FW shrimp.. at least my Cherry Shrimp are thriving and multiplying like crazy without adding iodine to their tank... except for what ever trace amounts might be in my drinking water. That's another piece of garbage info that floats around on the net and probably in some books. There's a big difference between saying something "might not be best" and "it will kill them". Using salt in general is not the best thing for FW fish but it's better than letting them succumb to Ich or some other disease/parasite. Now, certainly, it's cheaper to buy plain salt but if your fish come down with Ich or some other salt treatable disease, then Table Salt with Iodine would be better to use than nothing at all. Below is a snip from... http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml In conclusion, the following snip says... If you add iodized salt at the rate of one teaspoon per gallon, you are adding iodide in the range of 0.083 - 0.166ppm. After laying out the calculations, aquariaddictus remarked, "All in all, I have to believe it's a drop in the bucket. Does anyone use a tablespoon/gallon except in times of severe disease?" ----- START SNIP ----- Iodized salt. RavenSedai posted at Tom's Place, 23 July2000, the following from a koikeeper newsgroup, which pinpoints the anxiety about iodine in salt, an anxiety I don't share myself. Here it is, so you can decide whether to avoid iodized salt or not: "Iodized salt has 77 ppm iodide for the prevention of goiter. Ocean water typically contains 0.006 ppm iodide, so sea salt is typically 0.2 ppm iodide. So if iodized salt were used in the pond, the iodide concentration would be roughly 400 times higher than if sea salt were used to produce the same salinity. In natural waters (ocean or freshwater), the predominant form of iodine is the oxidized form, iodate (IO3-), not the reduced form, iodide (I-). These two forms do not interconvert readily in water. The active ingredient in Betadine disinfectant is 1% iodide. The USDA suggests a 10 minute bath of 100 ppm iodide as a disinfectant for trout eggs. A permanent concentration in the pond of about 0.1 ppm, a weak disinfectant bath, sounds like an experiment, not like prudent advice. All of the USDA aquaculture publications specifically recommend non-iodized salt. The toxicity of iodide to fish is unknown. It seems likely that fry might be more affected than mature fish. In humans, toxicity begins at about 2 mg/day, only 13 times the US FDA recommended daily allowance. For that reason, salt is iodized at much lower concentrations in Europe than it is in the US. Finally, why suggest experimenting by using much more expensive iodized table salt? I bought an 80 pound bag of solar salt crystals at Lowe's for $2.87. It's much cheaper, and safer." Fears about toxicity of the iodine represented in table salt are still often expressed in warnings not to use iodized salt in the aquarium. Potassium iodide (sometimes it's sodium iodide) in U.S. iodized table salt ranges from 20 to 40 parts per million. So what part per million of iodide does that potassium iodide represent? I'm innumerative. The ppm iodide were worked out by aquariaddictus in a thread at AquariaCentral, started 1 March 2003 (you can find it at AC: search "iodized salt ppm iodide"). Aquariaddictus pointed out that there is no elemental iodine in KI, just as there is no free chlorine in table salt. Iodide is I-, while iodine is I2, as chloride is Cl- while chlorine is Cl2. The terms aren't interchangable. Potassium is number 19 on the periodic table, Iodine is number 53. So pure KI is 73% iodide. Thus the iodide in the potassium iodide additive is between 14.6 - 29.2 ppm in the dry salt. KI weighs 15.38 grams per teaspoon. So, 15.38 grams/one teaspoon per gallon = 15.38 grams per 3.7854 liters = 4 ppm as KI. If you add iodized salt at the rate of one teaspoon per gallon, you are adding iodide in the range of 0.083 - 0.166ppm. After laying out the calculations, aquariaddictus remarked, "All in all, I have to believe it's a drop in the bucket. Does anyone use a tablespoon/gallon except in times of severe disease?" ----- END SNIP ----- -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? My research into tank cleaning shrimp says that they need iodine to thrive. But I understand that the amount of iodine in common table salt kills tropical fish. How do you supply the needs of shrimp for iodine without killing the tropical fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27789	From: Farscape	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: All natural fish treatments?

PimaFix is West Indian Bay (leaves, I think)... The odd thing to me is that it smells a lot like Geranium, only somewhat more "peppery". Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote, On 5/10/2008 5:22 PM: > the smell. MelaFix is based on Melaleuca (Tea Tree) Oil and PimaFix is > also based on another natural tree oil but I don't recall it off the top of

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27790	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Lenny, I think that the role temperature plays is in the saturation level for oxygen. The higher the temperature of the water, the less oxygen it takes to reach the saturation level. A lower oxygen concentration is known to affect the toxicity of ammonia to fish. The reason for this is that the ammonia affects the capacity of the hemoglobin for oxygen. So, if there is ammonia present, and continuing to be present in the water column, the higher temperature, the less oxygen is present and with the impairment of the hemoglobin, the fish slowly suffocates to death. Given the amount of ammonia present, this can happen slowly or quickly. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Dora, You understand wrong and you shouldn't make a blanket statement like that without citing a source. I do not like to waste my time giving you long answers with links to supporting pages for all of the information I supply because I like to type. I do it to try and make you and other readers more knowledgeable fish keepers. Please read the pages of information I supply or take me at my word but you really need to decide who you want to believe... me and others in this group or the unknown and undisclosed "others" that you constantly refer to. Tell me where you are getting all of your stupid and/or ignorant information from (I'm not calling you stupid/ignorant... only whatever sources you are relying on besides me and other experienced fish keepers on this list) and I'll be happy to visit that forum and set them straight.. until then, I'm about to call it quits with trying to help you. It's like you relish in challenging everything I say and it's fine to challenge me but show me your proof.. provide a link, an article or something other than your "understanding" or "others said" type BS. So.. until you start supplying me with links to references for your un-referenced conclusions, I'll no longer reply to your posts. Sorry but I'm wearing down my fingertips... and my patience... trying to make you a more knowledgeable fish keeper and you simply refuse to read any or all of the supporting GOOD information I try to give you. BTW... one last time.. here's the page explaining ammonia toxicity and it's all about the pH and temperature of the water that makes ammonia toxic. pH in the high 7's or 8's and high temps over 80F can make that level of ammonia toxic but average or low pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 and temps below 80F make 0.5ppm and even 1.0ppm ammonia levels non-toxic to most FW fish. Now here's the page showing that 0.5ppm ammonia doesn't become toxic unless the pH is over 8.0 and the temp is over 80F... http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm Now, generally, it's not good to have any amount of ammonia but it's a far cry from being toxic or "lethal" at such low levels and you must have an ammonia level when cycling with fish or you will never grow your nitrifying bacteria... they need ammonia to eat to start the cycling process. Once again... fishless cycling would have prevented all of the problems you are having for the past several weeks... and by now, your tank would have been fully cycled without harming or killing a single fish or spending so much of your own time doing PWC's, buying meds, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Lenny, I understand that .5 ppm of ammonia is lethal to fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:45 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Dora, You are still putting far too much emphasis and worrying about the minute amount of ammonia coming from chloramine. It's usually only 0.5ppm and then when only doing a 10% to 25% PWC, you're talking 0.05ppm to 0.125ppm of ammonia... an amount equal to about what one fish might pee. Your bio-filtration should easily handle this minute amount of ammonia immediately upon it going into the tank.. just like it does your fishes urine and ammonia released via gill function and decaying detritus. There is no need for people to spend extra money on Prime or Amquel if they have properly functioning tanks. If the tanks aren't properly functioning, then they have other problems and Prime/Amquel are not necessarily the answer but rather doing proper tank maintenance, filter maintenance and keeping the tank properly stocked. Don't throw chemicals at every minor problem in an aquarium. Fix or don't create the minor problems in the first place and you'll likely never have major problems. One day, you'll actually do a V-8 smack to your forehead and say... "Oh, now I see what Lenny is talking about!" Until then, you will continue to have water quality issues, fish illnesses, etc.... and continue to waste money on trying chemical fixes when the "natural" solution is so simple. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? The two products I constantly see recommended to treat the tap water are Prime and Amquel. I'm using Prime. Have Amquel but haven't tried it. Prome contains a fish conditoiner amquel doesn't. I think the post below specifically speaks to using water conditioners to threat ammonia and nitrite spikes when your tank is cycling, not to which brand. Prime and Amquel both treat ammonia and nitrites as well as chlorine and chloramine - and many tap water conditioners that claim to treat chloramine don't remove teh ammonia that is created by that process. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? OK...so if you don't use tetra products, what do you use to treat the tap water when doing water changes? I am currently using the Tetra brand, but I do weekly PWC on all my tanks and add the correct ammounts of the water treatment and aquarium salts. I test with the API master kit (as recommended here thanks) So if Tetra products are bad, what is recommended to use?? Thanks, Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I couldn't agree more. And, of course, we all know that they are in a BUSINESS. > > A business has to make money to survive. So, the more you use the stuff, the more money they make, and the more fish they kill, the more fish will be sold in the stores, and then they can make more money selling their stuff. It's one vicious cycle. > > People don't understand the stress they are putting on their fish. They think they are doing something wonderful because the water "looks" good, so everything must be all right. LOL, It's also easier to dump that crap in their tank than to do a partial water change. ..............and the beat goes on. > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27791	From: tishys_fishys	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: mollies

Growing up in Key West, we caught our own mollies at a salt pond that had an outlet to the Gulf of Mexico. Big (5") colorful sailfin molly males and large females were plentiful then. We converted them slowly to fresh water with salt added. Never had any problems with them and stopping them from breeding was impossible. My brother really had the knack for it. I don't think the salt pond is still there - it may have been filled in by now. Left Key West over 20 years ago and haven't been back for quite a while. I think the balloon mollies are butt ugly, too! Tish --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Rattie" <rick2646@...> wrote: > > I remember growing up have a 10 gallon with a few mollies in it. This was 25-30 years ago and I knew very little about them. I went away to camp and came back to find that there was a bunch of fry in the tank and no salt in the water. > > In recent years, I had a 30 gallon tank set up that was freshwater tank and added salt to it and slowly increased the salinity level till became more along the line of salt water. The mollies bred like bunnies. > > Btw does anyone find the Balloon Mollies butt ugly? > > Rick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27792	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Salt and Mollies

I must note here that I misspelled the author's name. It should be Robert Ellermann. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Salt and Mollies There has been some talk about the addition of salt to tanks lately. I just read an article by Robert Ellerman that appears in the latest issue of the ALA publication LIVEBEARERS. "The Giant Sailfin Mollies of Central America: _Poecilia velifera_ and _Poecilia petenensis_". In this article, he covers his history of keeping various mollies, especially with relation to the two species in the title. I should note that I have the submission he made to the publication, and not the actual published article, which had some editing done prior to publication. As I understand it, the editing removed some of the taxonomic discussion he had in the original submission. But, back to the point. I am including here a paragraph from his discussion on his tank conditions for these fish, and I will let this stand by itself. "Each species was placed in its own 55 gallon aquarium in an extremely sunny room. The tanks were each filtered by a large Eheim canister filter - Professional Model # 2226 I believe -- and sponge filtered power heads for simple water movement - so necessary for good sailfin molly development. I maintained a temperature range in the tanks from 78-84 F. The tanks were bare bottom but contained multiple clay pots of various species of aquarium plants. Drift wood with attached Java Fern was also included as a decoration. Both tanks contained a large population of pond and red ramshorn snails. Each aquarium received massive water changes 2-3 times a week - around 80-90 %. Local Houston tap water runs a pH of about 7.8 and has a GH and KH both around 18 which is the perfect water -- hard and alkaline -- for sailfin mollies. Nothing else was added to the water - especially not salt. In the early 1970's, Dr. Norton exploded the age old myth that mollies required salt in their water. She found that salt did not matter with mollies one way or the other, but space, water movement and cleanliness did. Now, I'm sure there are populations and species of mollies that do need salt in their water but the sailfin species - or at least the vast majority of their populations and domesticated varieties - are not those species. I would guess that the salt habit was formed from its use as an all purpose disease treatment in stores and home aquariums in the early years of the hobby (It still works well on some diseases - like velvet.), from the fact that latipinna and velifera populations exist in brackish to salt water in the wild (I'm not sure about petenensis populations) and from the fact that the area of the country where the hobby originated - the Northeast - often has rather neutral to soft and slightly acid water and salt helped make this water more suitable for the keeping of these species. Sailfin mollies do not usually like soft acid water." \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27793	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Local Austin fish

Raymond: Sounds like you have some knowledge of this. I took movies of the fish in my local creek (they weren't cooperating with stil shots). I live in northwest Austin, Texas. What are they? I got two sorts of them. They could be the same fish at different ages. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 7:13 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: mollies Mollies in the State of Texas are not restricted to the Rio Grande. If the Government ever does construct the immigrant wall that they've been talking about, there are other options as to locations of where to collect wild Sailfin Mollies, as they're found in various other locations in the State, from the drainage systems in the middle of the State to the southwestern part of the State, to portions of the southeast near Galveston (they can inhabit coastal water brackish areas. Some other rivers you might want to consider collecting (if it becomes necessary), although not knowing where you live, would include the Upper Guadalupe River, San Marcos River, Sabine Lake, Brazos River and Nueces River, but like you said -- most any of the offshoots (tributaries) of the Rio Grande which extend up into the State. Any such wall the State may build along the border would/could not include blocking off these tributaries from reaching the Rio Grande. Ray -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27794	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Just thought I'd point out that although you do indicate the relevence of both the temperature and the pH in ammonia's toxicity, it appears that, while pointing out the effects of ammonia in the pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 range may be beneficial information for the general membership here, this has little relevence to Dora's situation of much higher pH's. While we don't know (unless I missed it) Dora's temperature range, the effects of smaller amounts of ammonia in a tap water pH range of 7.9, variable up to pH 9.0 (depending on the amount of bottled water also used), may be infinitely more lethal with this possibility being increasingly dependant on the pH rather than the temperature. As the pH increases, so does the toxicity of the total available ammonia expotentially increase in relationship to it, as increasing amounts of un-iodized ammonia (NH3) are freed from ionization (ionized ammonia -- ammonium). An increase of one (1) pH unit, as from pH 8.0 to pH 9.0, will result in a 10-fold increase in the amount of any given ammonia value present in the water column. As an example at 77 o, water starts to become toxic to fish, with a total ammonia concentration of 1.2ppm, at a pH of 7.5. At this same temperature, a reading of pH 8.5 will result in water being toxic to fish at an ammonia concentration of only 0.1 ppm. The normal ammonia release from Chloramine, with the use of a water conditioner (read: "chloramine remover") may result in relatively small amounts of 0.05 ppm to 0.125 ppm when doing a 10% to 25% water change, and while a pH value of 8.0 will result in an ammonia level of 0.40 being toxic when available (still far above the ammonia residue level from the chloramine break-down), an increase of pH up to 9.0 (still at 77 o) will result in toxicity at an ammonia level of only 0.04 ppm. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Dora, > > You understand wrong and you shouldn't make a blanket statement like that > without citing a source. > > I do not like to waste my time giving you long answers with links to > supporting pages for all of the information I supply because I like to type. > > BTW... one last time.. here's the page explaining ammonia toxicity and it's > all about the pH and temperature of the water that makes ammonia toxic. pH > in the high 7's or 8's and high temps over 80F can make that level of > ammonia toxic but average or low pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 and temps below > 80F make 0.5ppm and even 1.0ppm ammonia levels non-toxic to most FW fish. > Now here's the page showing that 0.5ppm ammonia doesn't become toxic unless > the pH is over 8.0 and the temp is over 80F... > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > Lenny, I understand that .5 ppm of ammonia is lethal to fish. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:45 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > > Dora, > > You are still putting far too much emphasis and worrying about the minute > amount of ammonia coming from chloramine. It's usually only 0.5ppm and then > when only doing a 10% to 25% PWC, you're talking 0.05ppm to 0.125ppm . . . > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.15/1426 - Release Date: 5/10/2008 > 11:12 AM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 > 6:02 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 > 1:08 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27795	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

Dora, They could be anything. Without actually seeing a photo posted, its impossible to tell what you took movies of just going by the location (creek in northwest Austin). Yes, they could be the same fish at different ages. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Raymond: > > Sounds like you have some knowledge of this. I took movies of the fish in > my local creek (they weren't cooperating with stil shots). I live in > northwest Austin, Texas. What are they? I got two sorts of them. > They could be the same fish at different ages. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 7:13 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: mollies > > > Mollies in the State of Texas are not restricted to the Rio Grande. > If the Government ever does construct the immigrant wall that they've > been talking about, there are other options as to locations of where > to collect wild Sailfin Mollies, as they're found in various other > locations in the State, from the drainage systems in the middle of > the State to the southwestern part of the State, to portions of the > southeast near Galveston (they can inhabit coastal water brackish > areas. Some other rivers you might want to consider collecting (if > it becomes necessary), although not knowing where you live, would > include the Upper Guadalupe River, San Marcos River, Sabine Lake, > Brazos River and Nueces River, but like you said -- most any of the > offshoots (tributaries) of the Rio Grande which extend up into the > State. Any such wall the State may build along the border > would/could not include blocking off these tributaries from reaching > the Rio Grande. Ray > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27796	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?

Actually, one reason why I believed it is that apparently you aren't supposed to just use table salt in a fish tank. Why aren't you supposed to use table salt in a tropical fish tank? Can you use marine salt in a tropical fish tank, and if so, will it supply enough iodine for the shrimp at fresh water concentrations? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? Dora, Again, you need to do more thorough research. Iodine found in table salt is not a fish killer. What gave rise to this idea was the anti-caking compound that was used in table salt many years ago to keep the salt free flowing was the most likely cause. I don't have the reference handy, and do not recall what the anti-caking agent at the time was. However, today, there is no such fear, and one can use table salt in a pinch (so to speak, no pun was intended) to treat your tank when the use of salt is indicated. When I have it, I use a marine salt mix in my tanks. This contains iodine as one of the ingredients. Table salt, however, contains about 10 times as much iodine as does marine salt, but it still is a very small amount and does not pose a danger to your fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? My research into tank cleaning shrimp says that they need iodine to thrive. But I understand that the amount of iodine in common table salt kills tropical fish. How do you supply the needs of shrimp for iodine without killing the tropical fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27797	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

I think Dora said her out the tap pH is high but the in tank pH is 7.4 to 7.6 but I could be mistaken. I did direct her and other interested parties to a simple website with easy to understand color-coded charts on ammonia toxicity at each ammonia level from 0.25ppm up to high levels. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Just thought I'd point out that although you do indicate the relevence of both the temperature and the pH in ammonia's toxicity, it appears that, while pointing out the effects of ammonia in the pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 range may be beneficial information for the general membership here, this has little relevence to Dora's situation of much higher pH's. While we don't know (unless I missed it) Dora's temperature range, the effects of smaller amounts of ammonia in a tap water pH range of 7.9, variable up to pH 9.0 (depending on the amount of bottled water also used), may be infinitely more lethal with this possibility being increasingly dependant on the pH rather than the temperature. As the pH increases, so does the toxicity of the total available ammonia expotentially increase in relationship to it, as increasing amounts of un-iodized ammonia (NH3) are freed from ionization (ionized ammonia -- ammonium). An increase of one (1) pH unit, as from pH 8.0 to pH 9.0, will result in a 10-fold increase in the amount of any given ammonia value present in the water column. As an example at 77 o, water starts to become toxic to fish, with a total ammonia concentration of 1.2ppm, at a pH of 7.5. At this same temperature, a reading of pH 8.5 will result in water being toxic to fish at an ammonia concentration of only 0.1 ppm. The normal ammonia release from Chloramine, with the use of a water conditioner (read: "chloramine remover") may result in relatively small amounts of 0.05 ppm to 0.125 ppm when doing a 10% to 25% water change, and while a pH value of 8.0 will result in an ammonia level of 0.40 being toxic when available (still far above the ammonia residue level from the chloramine break-down), an increase of pH up to 9.0 (still at 77 o) will result in toxicity at an ammonia level of only 0.04 ppm. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Dora, > > You understand wrong and you shouldn't make a blanket statement like that > without citing a source. > > I do not like to waste my time giving you long answers with links to > supporting pages for all of the information I supply because I like to type. > > BTW... one last time.. here's the page explaining ammonia toxicity and it's > all about the pH and temperature of the water that makes ammonia toxic. pH > in the high 7's or 8's and high temps over 80F can make that level of > ammonia toxic but average or low pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 and temps below > 80F make 0.5ppm and even 1.0ppm ammonia levels non-toxic to most FW fish. > Now here's the page showing that 0.5ppm ammonia doesn't become toxic unless > the pH is over 8.0 and the temp is over 80F... > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > Lenny, I understand that .5 ppm of ammonia is lethal to fish. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:45 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > > Dora, > > You are still putting far too much emphasis and worrying about the minute > amount of ammonia coming from chloramine. It's usually only 0.5ppm and then > when only doing a 10% to 25% PWC, you're talking 0.05ppm to 0.125ppm . . . > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.15/1426 - Release Date: 5/10/2008 > 11:12 AM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 > 6:02 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 > 1:08 PM > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 1:08 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27798	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

A good site for info on native fish is NANFA (North American Native Fish Association)... not to be confused with NAMBLA... LOL (I won't expound on what that means). Do not rely on the recent article in Aquarium Fish Magazine which was full of ridiculously bad information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Local Austin fish Raymond: Sounds like you have some knowledge of this. I took movies of the fish in my local creek (they weren't cooperating with stil shots). I live in northwest Austin, Texas. What are they? I got two sorts of them. They could be the same fish at different ages. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 7:13 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: mollies Mollies in the State of Texas are not restricted to the Rio Grande. If the Government ever does construct the immigrant wall that they've been talking about, there are other options as to locations of where to collect wild Sailfin Mollies, as they're found in various other locations in the State, from the drainage systems in the middle of the State to the southwestern part of the State, to portions of the southeast near Galveston (they can inhabit coastal water brackish areas. Some other rivers you might want to consider collecting (if it becomes necessary), although not knowing where you live, would include the Upper Guadalupe River, San Marcos River, Sabine Lake, Brazos River and Nueces River, but like you said -- most any of the offshoots (tributaries) of the Rio Grande which extend up into the State. Any such wall the State may build along the border would/could not include blocking off these tributaries from reaching the Rio Grande. Ray -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 1:08 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27799	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?

You do need to take some time to read and comprehend the messages here. I answered all your questions in my original reply to this thread. I have spent some time researching your statement that freshwater fish need iodine, but this only seems to be possibly true of one variety of freshwater shrimp, and from other articles I scanned, I am not even sure that that statement by one person is true. I's not even worry about it unless there is something out there I missed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? Actually, one reason why I believed it is that apparently you aren't supposed to just use table salt in a fish tank. Why aren't you supposed to use table salt in a tropical fish tank? Can you use marine salt in a tropical fish tank, and if so, will it supply enough iodine for the shrimp at fresh water concentrations? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? Dora, Again, you need to do more thorough research. Iodine found in table salt is not a fish killer. What gave rise to this idea was the anti-caking compound that was used in table salt many years ago to keep the salt free flowing was the most likely cause. I don't have the reference handy, and do not recall what the anti-caking agent at the time was. However, today, there is no such fear, and one can use table salt in a pinch (so to speak, no pun was intended) to treat your tank when the use of salt is indicated. When I have it, I use a marine salt mix in my tanks. This contains iodine as one of the ingredients. Table salt, however, contains about 10 times as much iodine as does marine salt, but it still is a very small amount and does not pose a danger to your fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? My research into tank cleaning shrimp says that they need iodine to thrive. But I understand that the amount of iodine in common table salt kills tropical fish. How do you supply the needs of shrimp for iodine without killing the tropical fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27800	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: mollies

I found them in the Brazos River just outside (about 4 miles west) of Marlin in Falls County. Thats about 25 miles from Waco. No problem gaining access to the water. The best bets were the tributary steams feeding into it. The river runs through limestone territory so the fish love it. Not really near you unfortunately. Yes, the highly debateable border wall is talked about in other areas. Many don't yet realize the possible impact on the migrating butterflies. For this very reason, I think its good cause for it to be stalled. There've been more obscure animals that have taken precedence over some of this countries plans in the past, once they're publicized. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the list of rivers Raymond. Which of those locations have you tried? How easy was it for you to gain access to the water and how dangerous was it? I'm very curious to know. > > The Rio Grande is so close to me (something like 5-7 miles from my front door) so it is certainly the most convenient place for me. I live in Hidalgo County, Texas. There are many local folks concerned about the impact of the wall on the bird and butterfly populations and migrations, as well as the economic and political impact of a tall, concrete barrier. It is the hottest topic down here so we hope there are folks in other parts of the country who are also aware of these powerful concerns. > > Life used to be much simpler, it seems to me. > > Beverly > > Peace, please! > > > --- On Sun, 5/11/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: mollies > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, May 11, 2008, 7:13 AM > > Mollies in the State of Texas are not restricted to the Rio > > Grande. > > If the Government ever does construct the immigrant wall > > that they've > > been talking about, there are other options as to locations > > of where > > to collect wild Sailfin Mollies, as they're found in > > various other > > locations in the State, from the drainage systems in the > > middle of > > the State to the southwestern part of the State, to > > portions of the > > southeast near Galveston (they can inhabit coastal water > > brackish > > areas. Some other rivers you might want to consider > > collecting (if > > it becomes necessary), although not knowing where you live, > > would > > include the Upper Guadalupe River, San Marcos River, Sabine > > Lake, > > Brazos River and Nueces River, but like you said -- most > > any of the > > offshoots (tributaries) of the Rio Grande which extend up > > into the > > State. Any such wall the State may build along the border > > would/could not include blocking off these tributaries from > > reaching > > the Rio Grande. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bmp > > <bmpardue@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Rick, > > > > > > I do not care for the looks of balloon mollies at all. > > To me, they > > look deformed and in pain. I cannot fathom why some human > > thought it > > would be a good idea to encourage this mollie type. They > > are sold > > where I buy most of my fish; I would rather the tank space > > be given > > to some sailfins. I have never seen a male sailfin and > > would love to. > > > > > > I keep saying I want to go down to the local river > > (also known as > > the Rio Grande) or one of its offshoots and see if I can > > net any > > native mollies. However, with all the government's talk > > of > > constructing a tall wall to keep out illegal immigrants, I > > am afraid > > that the clock is loudly ticking on this idea. > > > > > > Beverly in Texas > > > > > > Peace, please! > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/9/08, Richard Rattie > > <rick2646@> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Richard Rattie <rick2646@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] mollies > > > > To: "YG Aquatic Life" > > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, May 9, 2008, 8:17 PM > > > > > > > > Btw does anyone find the Balloon Mollies butt > > ugly? > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ______________ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27801	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Yes, I did notice your helpful website link, if she cares to take advantage of it. As for her tap water, she said the pH is 9.0 (which is why I stated that), if you care to refer back to her post, and that when she mixes it with some bottled (distilled?) water it test out at arounf pH 7.9 -- but then I'd have to assume that would be variable depending on how much bottled water she uses during any particular PWC. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think Dora said her out the tap pH is high but the in tank pH is 7.4 to > 7.6 but I could be mistaken. I did direct her and other interested parties > to a simple website with easy to understand color-coded charts on ammonia > toxicity at each ammonia level from 0.25ppm up to high levels. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > Just thought I'd point out that although you do indicate the relevence of > both the temperature and the pH in ammonia's toxicity, it appears that, > while pointing out the effects of ammonia in the pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 > range may be beneficial information for the general membership here, this > has little relevence to Dora's situation of much higher pH's. While we don't > know (unless I missed > it) Dora's temperature range, the effects of smaller amounts of ammonia in a > tap water pH range of 7.9, variable up to pH 9.0 (depending on the amount of > bottled water also used), may be infinitely more lethal with this > possibility being increasingly dependant on the pH rather than the > temperature. > > As the pH increases, so does the toxicity of the total available ammonia > expotentially increase in relationship to it, as increasing amounts of > un-iodized ammonia (NH3) are freed from ionization (ionized ammonia -- > ammonium). An increase of one (1) pH unit, as from pH 8.0 to pH 9.0, will > result in a 10-fold increase in the amount of any given ammonia value > present in the water column. As an example at 77 o, water starts to become > toxic to fish, with a total ammonia concentration of 1.2ppm, at a pH of 7.5. > At this same temperature, a reading of pH 8.5 will result in water being > toxic to fish at an ammonia concentration of only 0.1 ppm. > > The normal ammonia release from Chloramine, with the use of a water > conditioner (read: "chloramine remover") may result in relatively small > amounts of 0.05 ppm to 0.125 ppm when doing a 10% to 25% water change, and > while a pH value of 8.0 will result in an ammonia level of 0.40 being toxic > when available (still far above the ammonia residue level from the > chloramine break-down), an increase of pH up to 9.0 (still at 77 o) will > result in toxicity at an ammonia level of only 0.04 ppm. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Dora, > > > > You understand wrong and you shouldn't make a blanket statement > like that > > without citing a source. > > > > I do not like to waste my time giving you long answers with links to > > supporting pages for all of the information I supply because I like > to type. > > > > BTW... one last time.. here's the page explaining ammonia toxicity > and it's > > all about the pH and temperature of the water that makes ammonia > toxic. pH > > in the high 7's or 8's and high temps over 80F can make that level > of > > ammonia toxic but average or low pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 and > temps below > > 80F make 0.5ppm and even 1.0ppm ammonia levels non-toxic to most FW > fish. > > Now here's the page showing that 0.5ppm ammonia doesn't become > toxic unless > > the pH is over 8.0 and the temp is over 80F... > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm > > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:41 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance > advice??? > > > > Lenny, I understand that .5 ppm of ammonia is lethal to fish. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:45 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance > advice??? > > > > > > Dora, > > > > You are still putting far too much emphasis and worrying about the > minute > > amount of ammonia coming from chloramine. It's usually only 0.5ppm > and then > > when only doing a 10% to 25% PWC, you're talking 0.05ppm to > 0.125ppm . . . > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > > Try it now. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.15/1426 - Release Date: > 5/10/2008 > > 11:12 AM > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º > ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: > 4/4/2008 > > 6:02 PM > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º > ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: > 5/11/2008 > > 1:08 PM > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 > 1:08 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27802	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: mollies

Can't butterflies just fly over the wall? It's not like it's going to be 200' high or anything. If it is too high, they'll just have to learn to ride the updrafts up and over the wall. They'll be lining up for the ride. Yeeee Hawwwww... or whatever sound a butterfly would make on a roller coaster. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: mollies I found them in the Brazos River just outside (about 4 miles west) of Marlin in Falls County. Thats about 25 miles from Waco. No problem gaining access to the water. The best bets were the tributary steams feeding into it. The river runs through limestone territory so the fish love it. Not really near you unfortunately. Yes, the highly debateable border wall is talked about in other areas. Many don't yet realize the possible impact on the migrating butterflies. For this very reason, I think its good cause for it to be stalled. There've been more obscure animals that have taken precedence over some of this countries plans in the past, once they're publicized. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the list of rivers Raymond. Which of those locations have you tried? How easy was it for you to gain access to the water and how dangerous was it? I'm very curious to know. > > The Rio Grande is so close to me (something like 5-7 miles from my front door) so it is certainly the most convenient place for me. I live in Hidalgo County, Texas. There are many local folks concerned about the impact of the wall on the bird and butterfly populations and migrations, as well as the economic and political impact of a tall, concrete barrier. It is the hottest topic down here so we hope there are folks in other parts of the country who are also aware of these powerful concerns. > > Life used to be much simpler, it seems to me. > > Beverly > > Peace, please! > > > --- On Sun, 5/11/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: mollies > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, May 11, 2008, 7:13 AM > > Mollies in the State of Texas are not restricted to the Rio Grande. > > If the Government ever does construct the immigrant wall that > > they've been talking about, there are other options as to locations > > of where to collect wild Sailfin Mollies, as they're found in > > various other locations in the State, from the drainage systems in > > the middle of the State to the southwestern part of the State, to > > portions of the southeast near Galveston (they can inhabit coastal > > water brackish areas. Some other rivers you might want to consider > > collecting (if it becomes necessary), although not knowing where you > > live, would include the Upper Guadalupe River, San Marcos River, > > Sabine Lake, Brazos River and Nueces River, but like you said -- > > most any of the offshoots (tributaries) of the Rio Grande which > > extend up into the State. Any such wall the State may build along > > the border would/could not include blocking off these tributaries > > from reaching the Rio Grande. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , bmp <bmpardue@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Rick, > > > > > > I do not care for the looks of balloon mollies at all. > > To me, they > > look deformed and in pain. I cannot fathom why some human thought it > > would be a good idea to encourage this mollie type. They are sold > > where I buy most of my fish; I would rather the tank space be given > > to some sailfins. I have never seen a male sailfin and would love > > to. > > > > > > I keep saying I want to go down to the local river > > (also known as > > the Rio Grande) or one of its offshoots and see if I can net any > > native mollies. However, with all the government's talk of > > constructing a tall wall to keep out illegal immigrants, I am afraid > > that the clock is loudly ticking on this idea. > > > > > > Beverly in Texas > > > > > > Peace, please! > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/9/08, Richard Rattie > > <rick2646@> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Richard Rattie <rick2646@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] mollies > > > > To: "YG Aquatic Life" > > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, May 9, 2008, 8:17 PM > > > > > > > > Btw does anyone find the Balloon Mollies butt > > ugly? > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > ______________ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > > > Try it now. > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 1:08 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27803	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Ray, Here is a snip from one of Dora's posts earlier today... "ph in my tank this morning is 7.6. It barely went up. Ammonia and nitrates both went down, and nitrites are down a little. This isn't a full 24 hours. Nitrites are between 1.0 and 2.0." That is where I got the 7.6 pH level from. I can only base my answers on the supplied information. If the information changes, then my earlier answer may not be applicable.... which is why I told her to check the website with all of the simple charts so she would know whether to be concerned or not. All of this, once again, leads me to stress ... PLEASE FISHLESS CYCLE if you don't have access to cycled filter media to start up fully cycled... it's a heck of a lot easier on the fish and on the owners. And until some user test results come back on all of the newly reformulated Bio-Spira spin-offs, Fishless Cycling is the best option to safely and surely fully cycle a tank. All of these pH questions would have also been worked out during the fishless cycle so the owner would know more about their water chemistry at the end of those few weeks without having to subject the fish to the cycling process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Yes, I did notice your helpful website link, if she cares to take advantage of it. As for her tap water, she said the pH is 9.0 (which is why I stated that), if you care to refer back to her post, and that when she mixes it with some bottled (distilled?) water it test out at arounf pH 7.9 -- but then I'd have to assume that would be variable depending on how much bottled water she uses during any particular PWC. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think Dora said her out the tap pH is high but the in tank pH is 7.4 to > 7.6 but I could be mistaken. I did direct her and other interested parties > to a simple website with easy to understand color-coded charts on ammonia > toxicity at each ammonia level from 0.25ppm up to high levels. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > Just thought I'd point out that although you do indicate the relevence of > both the temperature and the pH in ammonia's toxicity, it appears that, > while pointing out the effects of ammonia in the pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 > range may be beneficial information for the general membership here, this > has little relevence to Dora's situation of much higher pH's. While we don't > know (unless I missed > it) Dora's temperature range, the effects of smaller amounts of ammonia in a > tap water pH range of 7.9, variable up to pH 9.0 (depending on the amount of > bottled water also used), may be infinitely more lethal with this > possibility being increasingly dependant on the pH rather than the > temperature. > > As the pH increases, so does the toxicity of the total available ammonia > expotentially increase in relationship to it, as increasing amounts of > un-iodized ammonia (NH3) are freed from ionization (ionized ammonia -- > ammonium). An increase of one (1) pH unit, as from pH 8.0 to pH 9.0, will > result in a 10-fold increase in the amount of any given ammonia value > present in the water column. As an example at 77 o, water starts to become > toxic to fish, with a total ammonia concentration of 1.2ppm, at a pH of 7.5. > At this same temperature, a reading of pH 8.5 will result in water being > toxic to fish at an ammonia concentration of only 0.1 ppm. > > The normal ammonia release from Chloramine, with the use of a water > conditioner (read: "chloramine remover") may result in relatively small > amounts of 0.05 ppm to 0.125 ppm when doing a 10% to 25% water change, and > while a pH value of 8.0 will result in an ammonia level of 0.40 being toxic > when available (still far above the ammonia residue level from the > chloramine break-down), an increase of pH up to 9.0 (still at 77 o) will > result in toxicity at an ammonia level of only 0.04 ppm. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Dora, > > > > You understand wrong and you shouldn't make a blanket statement > like that > > without citing a source. > > > > I do not like to waste my time giving you long answers with links to > > supporting pages for all of the information I supply because I like > to type. > > > > BTW... one last time.. here's the page explaining ammonia toxicity > and it's > > all about the pH and temperature of the water that makes ammonia > toxic. pH > > in the high 7's or 8's and high temps over 80F can make that level > of > > ammonia toxic but average or low pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 and > temps below > > 80F make 0.5ppm and even 1.0ppm ammonia levels non-toxic to most FW > fish. > > Now here's the page showing that 0.5ppm ammonia doesn't become > toxic unless > > the pH is over 8.0 and the temp is over 80F... > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm > > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm> > > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm > > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:41 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance > advice??? > > > > Lenny, I understand that .5 ppm of ammonia is lethal to fish. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:45 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance > advice??? > > > > > > Dora, > > > > You are still putting far too much emphasis and worrying about the > minute > > amount of ammonia coming from chloramine. It's usually only 0.5ppm > and then > > when only doing a 10% to 25% PWC, you're talking 0.05ppm to > 0.125ppm . . . > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > > Try it now. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.15/1426 - Release Date: > 5/10/2008 > > 11:12 AM > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º > ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: > 4/4/2008 > > 6:02 PM > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º > ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: > 5/11/2008 > > 1:08 PM > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 > 1:08 PM > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 1:08 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27804	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Okay, had to check back on her comments to reference them. It appears as though she has said that her tap water is pH 9.0 (but that her test kit only goes up to pH 8.8+). In two posts she did state that her pH comes down to 7.9 -- one post (#27755 - 8:42PM 5/10/08) states that the pH drops to between pH 7.4 and pH 7.6 after a while due to nitrite build-up. The other post (#27775) also reports of pH 9.0 tap water and that 2/3 of a gallon of distilled water is mixed with tap water to fill a three gallon bucket, another account states of adding 1/2 gallon distilled water to 3 gallons of tap water with a esult of pH 7.6. Why then also is a pH reading of 7.9 stated for this account as well is beyond me. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think Dora said her out the tap pH is high but the in tank pH is 7.4 to > 7.6 but I could be mistaken. I did direct her and other interested parties > to a simple website with easy to understand color-coded charts on ammonia > toxicity at each ammonia level from 0.25ppm up to high levels. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > Just thought I'd point out that although you do indicate the relevence of > both the temperature and the pH in ammonia's toxicity, it appears that, > while pointing out the effects of ammonia in the pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 > range may be beneficial information for the general membership here, this > has little relevence to Dora's situation of much higher pH's. While we don't > know (unless I missed > it) Dora's temperature range, the effects of smaller amounts of ammonia in a > tap water pH range of 7.9, variable up to pH 9.0 (depending on the amount of > bottled water also used), may be infinitely more lethal with this > possibility being increasingly dependant on the pH rather than the > temperature. > > As the pH increases, so does the toxicity of the total available ammonia > expotentially increase in relationship to it, as increasing amounts of > un-iodized ammonia (NH3) are freed from ionization (ionized ammonia -- > ammonium). An increase of one (1) pH unit, as from pH 8.0 to pH 9.0, will > result in a 10-fold increase in the amount of any given ammonia value > present in the water column. As an example at 77 o, water starts to become > toxic to fish, with a total ammonia concentration of 1.2ppm, at a pH of 7.5. > At this same temperature, a reading of pH 8.5 will result in water being > toxic to fish at an ammonia concentration of only 0.1 ppm. > > The normal ammonia release from Chloramine, with the use of a water > conditioner (read: "chloramine remover") may result in relatively small > amounts of 0.05 ppm to 0.125 ppm when doing a 10% to 25% water change, and > while a pH value of 8.0 will result in an ammonia level of 0.40 being toxic > when available (still far above the ammonia residue level from the > chloramine break-down), an increase of pH up to 9.0 (still at 77 o) will > result in toxicity at an ammonia level of only 0.04 ppm. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Dora, > > > > You understand wrong and you shouldn't make a blanket statement > like that > > without citing a source. > > > > I do not like to waste my time giving you long answers with links to > > supporting pages for all of the information I supply because I like > to type. > > > > BTW... one last time.. here's the page explaining ammonia toxicity > and it's > > all about the pH and temperature of the water that makes ammonia > toxic. pH > > in the high 7's or 8's and high temps over 80F can make that level > of > > ammonia toxic but average or low pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 and > temps below > > 80F make 0.5ppm and even 1.0ppm ammonia levels non-toxic to most FW > fish. > > Now here's the page showing that 0.5ppm ammonia doesn't become > toxic unless > > the pH is over 8.0 and the temp is over 80F... > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm > > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:41 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance > advice??? > > > > Lenny, I understand that .5 ppm of ammonia is lethal to fish. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:45 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance > advice??? > > > > > > Dora, > > > > You are still putting far too much emphasis and worrying about the > minute > > amount of ammonia coming from chloramine. It's usually only 0.5ppm > and then > > when only doing a 10% to 25% PWC, you're talking 0.05ppm to > 0.125ppm . . . > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > > Try it now. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.15/1426 - Release Date: > 5/10/2008 > > 11:12 AM > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º > ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: > 4/4/2008 > > 6:02 PM > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º > ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: > 5/11/2008 > > 1:08 PM > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 > 1:08 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27805	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/11/2008
Subject: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

Lenny, As for stressing -- PLEASE FISHLESS CYCLE -- . . . its a heck of a lot easier also, on the moderators <g>. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Here is a snip from one of Dora's posts earlier today... > > "ph in my tank this morning is 7.6. It barely went up. Ammonia and > nitrates both went down, and nitrites are down a little. This isn't a full > 24 hours. Nitrites are between 1.0 and 2.0." > > That is where I got the 7.6 pH level from. I can only base my answers on > the supplied information. If the information changes, then my earlier > answer may not be applicable.... which is why I told her to check the > website with all of the simple charts so she would know whether to be > concerned or not. > > All of this, once again, leads me to stress ... PLEASE FISHLESS CYCLE if you > don't have access to cycled filter media to start up fully cycled... it's a > heck of a lot easier on the fish and on the owners. And until some user > test results come back on all of the newly reformulated Bio-Spira spin-offs, > Fishless Cycling is the best option to safely and surely fully cycle a tank. > > All of these pH questions would have also been worked out during the > fishless cycle so the owner would know more about their water chemistry at > the end of those few weeks without having to subject the fish to the cycling > process. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > Yes, I did notice your helpful website link, if she cares to take advantage > of it. As for her tap water, she said the pH is 9.0 (which is why I stated > that), if you care to refer back to her post, and that when she mixes it > with some bottled (distilled?) water it test out at arounf pH 7.9 -- but > then I'd have to assume that would be variable depending on how much bottled > water she uses during any particular PWC. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I think Dora said her out the tap pH is high but the in tank pH is > 7.4 to > > 7.6 but I could be mistaken. I did direct her and other interested > parties > > to a simple website with easy to understand color-coded charts on > ammonia > > toxicity at each ammonia level from 0.25ppm up to high levels. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:50 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance > advice??? > > > > Just thought I'd point out that although you do indicate the > relevence of > > both the temperature and the pH in ammonia's toxicity, it appears > that, > > while pointing out the effects of ammonia in the pH levels in the > 6.5 to 7.5 > > range may be beneficial information for the general membership > here, this > > has little relevence to Dora's situation of much higher pH's. While > we don't > > know (unless I missed > > it) Dora's temperature range, the effects of smaller amounts of > ammonia in a > > tap water pH range of 7.9, variable up to pH 9.0 (depending on the > amount of > > bottled water also used), may be infinitely more lethal with this > > possibility being increasingly dependant on the pH rather than the > > temperature. > > > > As the pH increases, so does the toxicity of the total available > ammonia > > expotentially increase in relationship to it, as increasing amounts > of > > un-iodized ammonia (NH3) are freed from ionization (ionized > ammonia -- > > ammonium). An increase of one (1) pH unit, as from pH 8.0 to pH > 9.0, will > > result in a 10-fold increase in the amount of any given ammonia > value > > present in the water column. As an example at 77 o, water starts to > become > > toxic to fish, with a total ammonia concentration of 1.2ppm, at a > pH of 7.5. > > At this same temperature, a reading of pH 8.5 will result in water > being > > toxic to fish at an ammonia concentration of only 0.1 ppm. > > > > The normal ammonia release from Chloramine, with the use of a water > > conditioner (read: "chloramine remover") may result in relatively > small > > amounts of 0.05 ppm to 0.125 ppm when doing a 10% to 25% water > change, and > > while a pH value of 8.0 will result in an ammonia level of 0.40 > being toxic > > when available (still far above the ammonia residue level from the > > chloramine break-down), an increase of pH up to 9.0 (still at 77 o) > will > > result in toxicity at an ammonia level of only 0.04 ppm. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Dora, > > > > > > You understand wrong and you shouldn't make a blanket statement > > like that > > > without citing a source. > > > > > > I do not like to waste my time giving you long answers with links > to > > > supporting pages for all of the information I supply because I > like > > to type. > > > > > > BTW... one last time.. here's the page explaining ammonia toxicity > > and it's > > > all about the pH and temperature of the water that makes ammonia > > toxic. pH > > > in the high 7's or 8's and high temps over 80F can make that level > > of > > > ammonia toxic but average or low pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 and > > temps below > > > 80F make 0.5ppm and even 1.0ppm ammonia levels non-toxic to most > FW > > fish. > > > Now here's the page showing that 0.5ppm ammonia doesn't become > > toxic unless > > > the pH is over 8.0 and the temp is over 80F... > > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm > > > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm> > > > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm > > > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm> > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:41 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance > > advice??? > > > > > > Lenny, I understand that .5 ppm of ammonia is lethal to fish. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:45 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance > > advice??? > > > > > > > > > Dora, > > > > > > You are still putting far too much emphasis and worrying about the > > minute > > > amount of ammonia coming from chloramine. It's usually only 0.5ppm > > and then > > > when only doing a 10% to 25% PWC, you're talking 0.05ppm to > > 0.125ppm . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! > Mobile. > > > Try it now. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.15/1426 - Release Date: > > 5/10/2008 > > > 11:12 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< > > ((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º > > ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: > > 4/4/2008 > > > 6:02 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< > > ((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º > > ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: > > 5/11/2008 > > > 1:08 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: > 5/11/2008 > > 1:08 PM > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 > 1:08 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27806	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

Raymond, they don't exactly stand still and pose for still photographs. And that was as close up as I could get and get clear images. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:59 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish Dora, They could be anything. Without actually seeing a photo posted, its impossible to tell what you took movies of just going by the location (creek in northwest Austin). Yes, they could be the same fish at different ages. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Raymond: > > Sounds like you have some knowledge of this. I took movies of the fish in > my local creek (they weren't cooperating with stil shots). I live in > northwest Austin, Texas. What are they? I got two sorts of them. > They could be the same fish at different ages. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27807	From: ED	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooooHooooooo

Makes sense, we do have a lot of plants. Oh! Yeah. 72gal NOT 75gal LOL it's an Oceanic 72 bowfront. Woooo Hooooo 48" wide like the 55 so we'll have 8 FEET of veiwing pleasure LOL 184gal total(all tanks). Go Big Blue! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Congrats on the new tank(s). > > The ecology of a tank will cause fluctuations in pH levels. > > For example, a well maintained tank with low bioload and weekly 25% PWC's, > gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance will have a much more consistent pH > and water parameter levels. > > A heavily stocked tank with excess detritus in the gravel and a heavy > buildup of mulm in the filters will cause all of the bacteria (good and bad) > to utilize trace elements and minerals a lot faster and they put out CO2 as > part of their living so that will cause the pH to come down much faster as > the KH levels decrease. > > Driftwood and live plants can cause the pH to get lower/higher also. > > If the KH gets too low, the nitrifying bacteria can start to die off and/or > the pH can crash to a deadly low level. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ED > Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 3:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] WoooooooHooooooo > > Just scored a 75gal bowfront tank with hood and filters for $100. > Woooohoooooo a new big blue. Used to be a 55gal. Now to get it going. > God I love the penny papers and peeps with poor knowledge and tank hygiene. > lol. Payed $75 for the 55gal. Only 20 more gallons but hey, the more th > merrier. > Odd bit of news- we have well water that tests high PH , yet our tank with > angels tests about 6.2 and the platties/neon tetra's runs 6.8. > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 > 5:24 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27808	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

Close up??? What close up? Oh, so you thought you sent a photo! There was no photo posted to be seen; no attachment for one. Did you send a photo to the files? If so, what's the title? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Raymond, they don't exactly stand still and pose for still photographs. > And that was as close up as I could get and get clear images. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:59 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish > > > Dora, They could be anything. Without actually seeing a photo > posted, its impossible to tell what you took movies of just going by > the location (creek in northwest Austin). Yes, they could be the > same fish at different ages. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > Raymond: > > > > Sounds like you have some knowledge of this. I took movies of the > fish in > > my local creek (they weren't cooperating with stil shots). I live > in > > northwest Austin, Texas. What are they? I got two sorts of > them. > > They could be the same fish at different ages. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27809	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?

Well, actually, I saw where you said "table salt is not a fish killer", but if not, why aren't you supposed ot use table salt in an aquarium? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? You do need to take some time to read and comprehend the messages here. I answered all your questions in my original reply to this thread. I have spent some time researching your statement that freshwater fish need iodine, but this only seems to be possibly true of one variety of freshwater shrimp, and from other articles I scanned, I am not even sure that that statement by one person is true. I's not even worry about it unless there is something out there I missed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? Actually, one reason why I believed it is that apparently you aren't supposed to just use table salt in a fish tank. Why aren't you supposed to use table salt in a tropical fish tank? Can you use marine salt in a tropical fish tank, and if so, will it supply enough iodine for the shrimp at fresh water concentrations? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? Dora, Again, you need to do more thorough research. Iodine found in table salt is not a fish killer. What gave rise to this idea was the anti-caking compound that was used in table salt many years ago to keep the salt free flowing was the most likely cause. I don't have the reference handy, and do not recall what the anti-caking agent at the time was. However, today, there is no such fear, and one can use table salt in a pinch (so to speak, no pun was intended) to treat your tank when the use of salt is indicated. When I have it, I use a marine salt mix in my tanks. This contains iodine as one of the ingredients. Table salt, however, contains about 10 times as much iodine as does marine salt, but it still is a very small amount and does not pose a danger to your fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? My research into tank cleaning shrimp says that they need iodine to thrive. But I understand that the amount of iodine in common table salt kills tropical fish. How do you supply the needs of shrimp for iodine without killing the tropical fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27810	From: deborahgd14	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

there's no new photos that I can see. It would show up in new photos. what's going on Dora/? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Close up??? What close up? Oh, so you thought you sent a photo! > There was no photo posted to be seen; no attachment for one. Did you > send a photo to the files? If so, what's the title? Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > Raymond, they don't exactly stand still and pose for still > photographs. > > And that was as close up as I could get and get clear images. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:59 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish > > > > > > Dora, They could be anything. Without actually seeing a photo > > posted, its impossible to tell what you took movies of just going by > > the location (creek in northwest Austin). Yes, they could be the > > same fish at different ages. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Raymond: > > > > > > Sounds like you have some knowledge of this. I took movies of the > > fish in > > > my local creek (they weren't cooperating with stil shots). I live > > in > > > northwest Austin, Texas. What are they? I got two sorts of > > them. > > > They could be the same fish at different ages. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: > 4/4/2008 6:02 PM > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27811	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

I posted this link. http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/563388097ZRDahM I thought you had looked at it and decided that you couldn't make out enough detail. But the fish and the camera won't do stills or closeups; if I zoomed in the images just got blurrry. The last three films do show fish moving slowly enough to make out many of their features. They're also bigger fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:32 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish Close up??? What close up? Oh, so you thought you sent a photo! There was no photo posted to be seen; no attachment for one. Did you send a photo to the files? If so, what's the title? Ray -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27812	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice???

I pretty well get the ph below 8 before I add it to the tank, and the tank ph seems to hover around 7.6 no matter what I do. But that is fairly high ph on the chart of ammonia toxicity. I found that adding 5 ml of Prime to 3 gallons of water over four hours still left up to .25 ppm of ammonia in my water, so I went away for a couple of hours and came back and the ammonia level was much closer to 0. But when I added 4 ml of Prime to 3 gallons of water and left it for about 20 hours, it still shows .25 to .5 ppm of ammonia. So I added another 2 ml before doing my air bubble thing that is always necessary to lower the ph before putting the water in the tank, no matter how long it sat out. My numbers are ammonia about .25, nitrites between 1.0 and 2.0, and nitrates about 5.0 - exactly what it was yesterday. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? Just thought I'd point out that although you do indicate the relevence of both the temperature and the pH in ammonia's toxicity, it appears that, while pointing out the effects of ammonia in the pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 range may be beneficial information for the general membership here, this has little relevence to Dora's situation of much higher pH's. While we don't know (unless I missed it) Dora's temperature range, the effects of smaller amounts of ammonia in a tap water pH range of 7.9, variable up to pH 9.0 (depending on the amount of bottled water also used), may be infinitely more lethal with this possibility being increasingly dependant on the pH rather than the temperature. As the pH increases, so does the toxicity of the total available ammonia expotentially increase in relationship to it, as increasing amounts of un-iodized ammonia (NH3) are freed from ionization (ionized ammonia -- ammonium). An increase of one (1) pH unit, as from pH 8.0 to pH 9.0, will result in a 10-fold increase in the amount of any given ammonia value present in the water column. As an example at 77 o, water starts to become toxic to fish, with a total ammonia concentration of 1.2ppm, at a pH of 7.5. At this same temperature, a reading of pH 8.5 will result in water being toxic to fish at an ammonia concentration of only 0.1 ppm. The normal ammonia release from Chloramine, with the use of a water conditioner (read: "chloramine remover") may result in relatively small amounts of 0.05 ppm to 0.125 ppm when doing a 10% to 25% water change, and while a pH value of 8.0 will result in an ammonia level of 0.40 being toxic when available (still far above the ammonia residue level from the chloramine break-down), an increase of pH up to 9.0 (still at 77 o) will result in toxicity at an ammonia level of only 0.04 ppm. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Dora, > > You understand wrong and you shouldn't make a blanket statement like that > without citing a source. > > I do not like to waste my time giving you long answers with links to > supporting pages for all of the information I supply because I like to type. > > BTW... one last time.. here's the page explaining ammonia toxicity and it's > all about the pH and temperature of the water that makes ammonia toxic. pH > in the high 7's or 8's and high temps over 80F can make that level of > ammonia toxic but average or low pH levels in the 6.5 to 7.5 and temps below > 80F make 0.5ppm and even 1.0ppm ammonia levels non-toxic to most FW fish. > Now here's the page showing that 0.5ppm ammonia doesn't become toxic unless > the pH is over 8.0 and the temp is over 80F... > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia.5ppm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > Lenny, I understand that .5 ppm of ammonia is lethal to fish. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:45 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Tetra's Monthly Aquarium Maintenance advice??? > > > Dora, > > You are still putting far too much emphasis and worrying about the minute > amount of ammonia coming from chloramine. It's usually only 0.5ppm and then > when only doing a 10% to 25% PWC, you're talking 0.05ppm to 0.125ppm . . . > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.15/1426 - Release Date: 5/10/2008 > 11:12 AM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ...´¯`...<º ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 > 6:02 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > .´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ...´¯`...<º ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 5/11/2008 > 1:08 PM > ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27813	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

About all I can say, after viewing several of the clips, is "Yep, they're fish. Alright!' \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 7:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish I posted this link. http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/563388097ZRDahM I thought you had looked at it and decided that you couldn't make out enough detail. But the fish and the camera won't do stills or closeups; if I zoomed in the images just got blurrry. The last three films do show fish moving slowly enough to make out many of their features. They're also bigger fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:32 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish Close up??? What close up? Oh, so you thought you sent a photo! There was no photo posted to be seen; no attachment for one. Did you send a photo to the files? If so, what's the title? Ray -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27814	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?

It is one of those myths that have been passed along for years that many people accept as gospel truth, though there is never any explanation of the why involved. It gets passed from hobbyist to hobbyist, is heard from speakers at events, and is published in books and articles. I have heard this for so long and in so many forums, that, even though I know better now, I still can't break away from the belief that table salt is not good for fish, though I have used it, and will use it in the future, if necessary. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 7:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? Well, actually, I saw where you said "table salt is not a fish killer", but if not, why aren't you supposed ot use table salt in an aquarium? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? You do need to take some time to read and comprehend the messages here. I answered all your questions in my original reply to this thread. I have spent some time researching your statement that freshwater fish need iodine, but this only seems to be possibly true of one variety of freshwater shrimp, and from other articles I scanned, I am not even sure that that statement by one person is true. I's not even worry about it unless there is something out there I missed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? Actually, one reason why I believed it is that apparently you aren't supposed to just use table salt in a fish tank. Why aren't you supposed to use table salt in a tropical fish tank? Can you use marine salt in a tropical fish tank, and if so, will it supply enough iodine for the shrimp at fresh water concentrations? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? Dora, Again, you need to do more thorough research. Iodine found in table salt is not a fish killer. What gave rise to this idea was the anti-caking compound that was used in table salt many years ago to keep the salt free flowing was the most likely cause. I don't have the reference handy, and do not recall what the anti-caking agent at the time was. However, today, there is no such fear, and one can use table salt in a pinch (so to speak, no pun was intended) to treat your tank when the use of salt is indicated. When I have it, I use a marine salt mix in my tanks. This contains iodine as one of the ingredients. Table salt, however, contains about 10 times as much iodine as does marine salt, but it still is a very small amount and does not pose a danger to your fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? My research into tank cleaning shrimp says that they need iodine to thrive. But I understand that the amount of iodine in common table salt kills tropical fish. How do you supply the needs of shrimp for iodine without killing the tropical fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Iodine and shrimp?

The article that I posted from TheSkepticalAquarist outlines where the "myth" came from... more from the anti-caking agents in some salts... which would be listed in the ingredients but most common table salts and Iodized Salt do not contain anti-caking agents. Check the ingredients.. if it has "Salt" or "Iodized Salt", then you are OK. The iodine contained in Iodized salt at the levels we apply to our fish tanks is so miniscule that it just doesn't matter.... compared to all of the other stuff that is going on in our fish tanks with thousands of different bacteria, virii, etc. Think about it... would you eat the gunk on your filter pads? No... but our fish swim around in the water that passes through that gunk several times an hour, 24 hours a day. Further, would you drink your dechlor product? No.. but we add it to our fish tanks because it's better than adding chlorinated water.. it's the lesser of two evils. Quit sweating the little microscopic things and FISHLESS CYCLE YOUR TANK NEXT TIME.. LOL Then you wouldn't be having health issues requiring salt, anti-biotics, constant PWC's, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 9:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? It is one of those myths that have been passed along for years that many people accept as gospel truth, though there is never any explanation of the why involved. It gets passed from hobbyist to hobbyist, is heard from speakers at events, and is published in books and articles. I have heard this for so long and in so many forums, that, even though I know better now, I still can't break away from the belief that table salt is not good for fish, though I have used it, and will use it in the future, if necessary. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 7:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? Well, actually, I saw where you said "table salt is not a fish killer", but if not, why aren't you supposed ot use table salt in an aquarium? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? You do need to take some time to read and comprehend the messages here. I answered all your questions in my original reply to this thread. I have spent some time researching your statement that freshwater fish need iodine, but this only seems to be possibly true of one variety of freshwater shrimp, and from other articles I scanned, I am not even sure that that statement by one person is true. I's not even worry about it unless there is something out there I missed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? Actually, one reason why I believed it is that apparently you aren't supposed to just use table salt in a fish tank. Why aren't you supposed to use table salt in a tropical fish tank? Can you use marine salt in a tropical fish tank, and if so, will it supply enough iodine for the shrimp at fresh water concentrations? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? Dora, Again, you need to do more thorough research. Iodine found in table salt is not a fish killer. What gave rise to this idea was the anti-caking compound that was used in table salt many years ago to keep the salt free flowing was the most likely cause. I don't have the reference handy, and do not recall what the anti-caking agent at the time was. However, today, there is no such fear, and one can use table salt in a pinch (so to speak, no pun was intended) to treat your tank when the use of salt is indicated. When I have it, I use a marine salt mix in my tanks. This contains iodine as one of the ingredients. Table salt, however, contains about 10 times as much iodine as does marine salt, but it still is a very small amount and does not pose a danger to your fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Iodine and shrimp? My research into tank cleaning shrimp says that they need iodine to thrive. But I understand that the amount of iodine in common table salt kills tropical fish. How do you supply the needs of shrimp for iodine without killing the tropical fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1428 - Release Date: 5/12/2008 7:44 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1428 - Release Date: 5/12/2008 7:44 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27816	From: Rob and Amy Zerkle	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Salamanders , newts , clawed frogs and water dogs

All Cleveland Reptile Sale & Swap May 18th,2008 Snakes- Lizards -Turtles -Frogs- Pocket Pets as well as Feeders & Supplies!!!! **Buy ** Sell** Trade** 2008 Dates May 18, June 22 ,July 20 , Aug 17 ,Sept 21 , Oct 26 , Nov 16 , Dec 21 Great family event! Every kind of reptile you can imagine! Don't miss this great event! 10 AM- 4 PM $4.00 admission , 10 and under $1.00 Free Parking & Handicap accessible On site food U.A.W. Hall Local 1250 17250 Hummel Road Brookpark Ohio , 44142 "Across from the Ford plant" For info call # 614-492-8415 allclevelandreptileshow.com Zerkle Reptile Company | Reptile4me @ aol.com / 614-492-8415 Rain or Shine, Sleet or Snow. 78 degrees or 20 below, this show goes on into our 3rd Great year !

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27817	From: bmp	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish--Dora

Hi Dora, Since you are in Austin, I have two ideas for you. First, try calling the Biology Department on campus (UT). The departmental phone number is: 471-7102. See if there is a TA or instructor who would be willing to look at your fish. Take them up there in a jar. As for parking, there is a section of metered spaces for visitors near the Littlefield house on the west side of campus, just east of Guadalupe, not too far south of the Communications Buildings, and near the Biology Ponds & greenhouse. If someone will agree over the phone to look at them, ask them for better directions than I can give you, ha. The other idea is to call up Caroline at Amazonia (on Airport Blvd.) or check with the folks at AquaTek on Burnet Road. Caroline is mostly a cichlid-ophile but knows lots of other fish too, including some native fish. She is nice but may be a little hard to reach. As for AquaTek, Marcus is a nice guy and will probably try to help you out but his speciality is dwarf cichlids of South America. My guess is they are a livebearer species, something similar to Gambusia affinis (aka Mosquito Fish). The minnow-like shape and coloration suggest that to me. I know there are lots of Gambusia in the Biology Ponds on campus, if you want to stop by and compare, especially in the lowest level pond (where most of the turtles are). Good luck to you! Beverly Peace, please! --- On Mon, 5/12/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, May 12, 2008, 6:17 PM > I posted this link. > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/563388097ZRDahM > > I thought you had looked at it and decided that you > couldn't make out enough > detail. But the fish and the camera won't do stills > or closeups; if I > zoomed in the images just got blurrry. The last three > films do show fish > moving slowly enough to make out many of their features. > They're also > bigger fish. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:32 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish > > > Close up??? What close up? Oh, so you thought you sent a > photo! > There was no photo posted to be seen; no attachment for > one. Did you > send a photo to the files? If so, what's the title? Ray > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release > Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27818	From: bmp	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: mollies

Thanks for the information Raymond. I appreciate your understanding the local concern about how wildlife, including butterflies, would be adversely affected by the wall. I'm glad you don't think it's a joke. It's pretty doggone serious, as you know. Beverly Peace, please! --- On Sun, 5/11/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: mollies > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, May 11, 2008, 11:03 PM > I found them in the Brazos River just outside (about 4 miles > west) of > Marlin in Falls County. Thats about 25 miles from Waco. > No problem > gaining access to the water. The best bets were the > tributary steams > feeding into it. The river runs through limestone > territory so the > fish love it. Not really near you unfortunately. > > Yes, the highly debateable border wall is talked about in > other > areas. Many don't yet realize the possible impact on > the migrating > butterflies. For this very reason, I think its good cause > for it to > be stalled. There've been more obscure animals that > have taken > precedence over some of this countries plans in the past, > once > they're publicized. Ray > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27819	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/12/2008
Subject: Re: mollies (now butterflies)

Beverly, 15,000,000 criminals roaming our streets is pretty doggone serious too. Ask any of the families of the thousands of murder victims, gang violence, drugs, crime, etc. I'm all for legal, regulated and documented permanent and temporary immigration but we have to put a stop to criminals breaking into our country with impunity. If the butterflies can't fly 10' or 20' high to get over the wall, then they should change their names to butter-can't-fly. I know that right now we have millions of caterpillars thriving in our oak trees around New Orleans... which are much higher than 20' off the ground so somehow the butterflies got up that high... so I'm sure they can fly over the Great Wall Of North America... maybe it will be the new 7th Wonder of the Modern World one day! ;-) Just think if the environmentalism-extremists were around in ancient China.. there wouldn't be a Great Wall Of China.. oh wait, yeah it would.. Ming would have simply beheaded all of them.. or run them over with tanks in the town square. ;-) Further, according to WikiPedia.. I know.. not always the most reliable source but generally it's OK... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly#Migration "Many butterflies migrate over long distances. Particularly famous migrations being those of the Monarch butterfly from Mexico to North America, a distance of about 4,000 to 4,800 kilometres (2500-3000 miles)." If they can fly 3,000 miles, I'm sure they are flying over things more than 10' to 20' high during their migration. I'll continue to look for more definitive resources showing the maximum and average height of their migratory flight. OK.. this looks like a reliable source... http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/monarch/HeightFallFlight.html How High do Monarch Butterflies Fly During Fall Migration? Contributed by Dr. Bill Calvert Q. What's the highest you've ever known monarchs to fly? A. Glider pilots have reported monarchs flying as high as eleven thousand feet. Q. Why do they fly at such high altitudes? A. At increasingly higher altitudes wind speed increases rapidly. So if the winds are going in the right direction, it pays monarchs to thermal upward. Whew.. all that worrying about a 10' to 20' high wall is seeming kind of petty now. And it seems that the butterflies know all about thermal updrafts and such so they'll be able to ride the updraft over the wall even if they happen to be at ground level when the get to the Great Wall Of North America! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bmp Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: mollies Thanks for the information Raymond. I appreciate your understanding the local concern about how wildlife, including butterflies, would be adversely affected by the wall. I'm glad you don't think it's a joke. It's pretty doggone serious, as you know. Beverly Peace, please! --- On Sun, 5/11/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > wrote: > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: mollies > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, May 11, 2008, 11:03 PM > I found them in the Brazos River just outside (about 4 miles > west) of > Marlin in Falls County. Thats about 25 miles from Waco. > No problem > gaining access to the water. The best bets were the tributary steams > feeding into it. The river runs through limestone territory so the > fish love it. Not really near you unfortunately. > > Yes, the highly debateable border wall is talked about in other areas. > Many don't yet realize the possible impact on the migrating > butterflies. For this very reason, I think its good cause for it to be > stalled. There've been more obscure animals that have taken precedence > over some of this countries plans in the past, once they're > publicized. Ray > __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1428 - Release Date: 5/12/2008 7:44 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1428 - Release Date: 5/12/2008 7:44 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27820	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

I regret to have to inform you that you did not post any such link in your original message on this topic. If you thought you did, you are mistaken. If you still think you did, just go up to the Group Page and open message #27793 -- your message -- if you don't still have this message as an email from the Group. I did check out the video shots from your follow-up post on this. While I can see some fish here and there, most of them are very small, with the remainder of them being extremely small and the rest quite tiny. About the only features that can be distinguished are that they're shaped like fish, with some of them being grey and others darker although I think I did see one with some orange on it. As they're all taken as looking down at them from the top or on an angle from the top, with them being down in the water, its impossible to see any colors and/or patterns on their sides or the shapes and sizes of their fins. For us to be able to see what they are, you'll need to catch some and photograph them from the side, in an aquarium. If someone photographed your own fish from the top, I doubt if even you would know what they are, so you can't expect to know what any of these fish are without being able to view them where at least something distinguishing can be seen of them. Otherwise, they just look like a bunch of bait minnows as looking down at them in a can. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I posted this link. > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/563388097ZRDahM > > I thought you had looked at it and decided that you couldn't make out enough > detail. But the fish and the camera won't do stills or closeups; if I > zoomed in the images just got blurrry. The last three films do show fish > moving slowly enough to make out many of their features. They're also > bigger fish. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:32 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish > > > Close up??? What close up? Oh, so you thought you sent a photo! > There was no photo posted to be seen; no attachment for one. Did you > send a photo to the files? If so, what's the title? Ray > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27821	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Cory Cats

I wrote about this before but included another question and I don't think this one got answered (or I missed it somehow on digest): Are Cory Cats bottom feeders? I have Juli's and Emeralds in different planted tanks. Both my 29 gallon and a 10 gallon (again, planted) have cory's in them, but I am wondering if they are actually bottom feeders? I don't want to get any more Pleco's because I really don't feel like I can trust a LFS to give me a true Pleco that will stay small. Haven't had any luck with Otto Cats. Tanks are too small for Clown Loaches. Just wondering, if Cory Cats are not really helping clean the gravel, what might be a good choice for these smaller tanks? My boyfriend has a Spotted Raphael in his 20 gallon and after about three years, I was surprised to see how small he still is (about three inches but I am sure he was stunted because of too small of a tank). He doesn't seem to do anything but live inside a piece of barnacles anyway. I know the plants and filter help (along with PWC and my gravel siphon), but I still would like to make sure all of my tanks at least have some bottom feeders in them. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27822	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

I sent a link. I sent it again yesterday, and I'm sending it again tonight. What are you guys getting when you go to it? http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/563388097ZRDahM It is movies, not still shots. The fish wouldn't cooperate with still shots. The last three of some adults are the most clear, because they were larger and not moving as fast. But tehy may not be the same species as the small ones. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: deborahgd14 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 6:22 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish there's no new photos that I can see. It would show up in new photos. what's going on Dora/? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Close up??? What close up? Oh, so you thought you sent a photo! > There was no photo posted to be seen; no attachment for one. Did you > send a photo to the files? If so, what's the title? Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > Raymond, they don't exactly stand still and pose for still > photographs. > > And that was as close up as I could get and get clear images. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:59 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish > > > > > > Dora, They could be anything. Without actually seeing a photo > > posted, its impossible to tell what you took movies of just going by > > the location (creek in northwest Austin). Yes, they could be the > > same fish at different ages. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Raymond: > > > > > > Sounds like you have some knowledge of this. I took movies of the > > fish in > > > my local creek (they weren't cooperating with stil shots). I live > > in > > > northwest Austin, Texas. What are they? I got two sorts of > > them. > > > They could be the same fish at different ages. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: > 4/4/2008 6:02 PM > > > ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27823	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

hi Dora i live in Austin and the only fish i ever see in the local creeks are the dreaded "mosquito fish" a Gambusia species as someone pointed out. they are little terrors. please don't put them in a tank with any other species or it will not be a pretty sight. you shouldn't do it anyway because of the introduction of foreign parasites and bacteria etc. to your established fish. i would be curious to know what you do find out. Amazonia on Airport should know or have a reference book that you can look them up in. samantha

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27824	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish--Dora

Biology ponds on campus? Where? I'll give Caroline a call. I don't feel too hot about capturing some fish adn carrying them around town in my backpack in a jar, though. I'd probably get run out of the store for fish torture. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: bmp To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish--Dora Hi Dora, Since you are in Austin, I have two ideas for you. First, try calling the Biology Department on campus (UT). The departmental phone number is: 471-7102. See if there is a TA or instructor who would be willing to look at your fish. Take them up there in a jar. As for parking, there is a section of metered spaces for visitors near the Littlefield house on the west side of campus, just east of Guadalupe, not too far south of the Communications Buildings, and near the Biology Ponds & greenhouse. If someone will agree over the phone to look at them, ask them for better directions than I can give you, ha. The other idea is to call up Caroline at Amazonia (on Airport Blvd.) or check with the folks at AquaTek on Burnet Road. Caroline is mostly a cichlid-ophile but knows lots of other fish too, including some native fish. She is nice but may be a little hard to reach. As for AquaTek, Marcus is a nice guy and will probably try to help you out but his speciality is dwarf cichlids of South America. My guess is they are a livebearer species, something similar to Gambusia affinis (aka Mosquito Fish). The minnow-like shape and coloration suggest that to me. I know there are lots of Gambusia in the Biology Ponds on campus, if you want to stop by and compare, especially in the lowest level pond (where most of the turtles are). Good luck to you! Beverly Peace, please! --- On Mon, 5/12/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, May 12, 2008, 6:17 PM > I posted this link. > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/563388097ZRDahM > > I thought you had looked at it and decided that you > couldn't make out enough > detail. But the fish and the camera won't do stills > or closeups; if I > zoomed in the images just got blurrry. The last three > films do show fish > moving slowly enough to make out many of their features. > They're also > bigger fish. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:32 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish > > > Close up??? What close up? Oh, so you thought you sent a > photo! > There was no photo posted to be seen; no attachment for > one. Did you > send a photo to the files? If so, what's the title? Ray > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release > Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27825	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

Raymond, they're wild fish. I'm not going to get them into an aquarium. So you're saying that in my original post I forgot the link, but last night I included one? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:50 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish I regret to have to inform you that you did not post any such link in your original message on this topic. If you thought you did, you are mistaken. If you still think you did, just go up to the Group Page and open message #27793 -- your message -- if you don't still have this message as an email from the Group. I did check out the video shots from your follow-up post on this. While I can see some fish here and there, most of them are very small, with the remainder of them being extremely small and the rest quite tiny. About the only features that can be distinguished are that they're shaped like fish, with some of them being grey and others darker although I think I did see one with some orange on it. As they're all taken as looking down at them from the top or on an angle from the top, with them being down in the water, its impossible to see any colors and/or patterns on their sides or the shapes and sizes of their fins. For us to be able to see what they are, you'll need to catch some and photograph them from the side, in an aquarium. If someone photographed your own fish from the top, I doubt if even you would know what they are, so you can't expect to know what any of these fish are without being able to view them where at least something distinguishing can be seen of them. Otherwise, they just look like a bunch of bait minnows as looking down at them in a can. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I posted this link. > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/563388097ZRDahM > > I thought you had looked at it and decided that you couldn't make out enough > detail. But the fish and the camera won't do stills or closeups; if I > zoomed in the images just got blurrry. The last three films do show fish > moving slowly enough to make out many of their features. They're also > bigger fish. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:32 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish > > > Close up??? What close up? Oh, so you thought you sent a photo! > There was no photo posted to be seen; no attachment for one. Did you > send a photo to the files? If so, what's the title? Ray > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM > ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27826	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/13/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question

Yes to all of the below :) I really did get funny looks when I was "Huffing" sponge or cushion material. -Mike Mike, I'm not allowed in JoAnn's any longer after they had the guys in the white oats come and get me for sucking and blowing through all the foam. I ratted Lynn out for suggesting it so he may be locked up since he doesn't ave anyone else to rat out... until now. Now he can rat out Mike to get ut of the crazy house faster. Watch out Mike, they're coming to take you away! Ho Ho He He Ha Haaa! God, I'm aging myself by remembering that song or that I'm admitting that I sed to listen to the Dr. Demento show. LOL ttp://www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/n/napoleon-xiv/theyre-coming-to-take-me- way.htm -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 9 May 2008 8:22 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HOB Question Mike, I'm not allowed in JoAnn's any longer after they had the guys in the white oats come and get me for sucking and blowing through all the foam. I ratted Lynn out for suggesting it so he may be locked up since he doesn't ave anyone else to rat out... until now. Now he can rat out Mike to get ut of the crazy house faster. Watch out Mike, they're coming to take you away! Ho Ho He He Ha Haaa! God, I'm aging myself by remembering that song or that I'm admitting that I sed to listen to the Dr. Demento show. LOL ttp://www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/n/napoleon-xiv/theyre-coming-to-take-me- way.htm Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On ehalf Of Deenerz@... ent: Friday, May 09, 2008 9:50 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOB Question ana, In my personal experience I was unable to find suitable foam at Joann abrics. The pores were too small to allow adequate water flow. I have not een there in a couple years though. Maybe next time Lenny needs some fabric r other sewing material he can check that out for us ;) Now after making hat crack I actually do need to go buy some yarn for Rainbow Spawning mops. You might look into a place that sells foam for aquarium filtration, maybe ond filtration. If you need a lot buying in bulk works great. You could probably buy a large aquaclear sponge and cut it to fit. I have ought their large sponges and cut them down to fit smaller aquaclears. I hink BigAlsOnline has there own brand of sponge material for aquaclears, ut then you have to pay shipping. Your LFS will probably be the best deal f you only need one. Always important to try and support them when we can. -Mike n a message dated 5/9/2008 7:07:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ana.m.gibbons@... <mailto:lana.m.gibbons%40gmail.com> writes: Can you buy foam from the abric/craft store to use in a fish filter? If so, is there anything in articular that I should be looking for? Thanks! -Lana o virus found in this outgoing message. hecked by AVG. ersion: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 :24 PM ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27827	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: Cory Cats

While Cory Cats are not considered to be algae eaters, as are some of these other fish you've mentioned, they are definitely bottom feeders -- and will help to keep your gravel clean. Your gravel should not be sharp-edged, however, as this will be seen to cause their "whiskers" to wear and deteriorate. Neither, should the gravel be too large, as you can't expect these catfish to get way down into substrate of 1/4" "river rock" gravel. Raphael Cats, whether spotted are striped (both get to about the same size), grow too large for your 29 gallon tank (and especially your 10 gallon tank). At 3", your boyfriend's Raphael Cat is stunted if it has remained (or only grown to) this size after 3 years. I have a pair of Striped Raphael Cats in one of my 100 gallon tanks -- the female is 9" and the male is 7 1/2". Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <brownp3@...> wrote: > > I wrote about this before but included another question and I don't think this one got answered (or I missed it somehow on digest): > > Are Cory Cats bottom feeders? I have Juli's and Emeralds in different planted tanks. Both my 29 gallon and a 10 gallon (again, planted) have cory's in them, but I am wondering if they are actually bottom feeders? I don't want to get any more Pleco's because I really don't feel like I can trust a LFS to give me a true Pleco that will stay small. Haven't had any luck with Otto Cats. Tanks are too small for Clown Loaches. Just wondering, if Cory Cats are not really helping clean the gravel, what might be a good choice for these smaller tanks? My boyfriend has a Spotted Raphael in his 20 gallon and after about three years, I was surprised to see how small he still is (about three inches but I am sure he was stunted because of too small of a tank). He doesn't seem to do anything but live inside a piece of barnacles anyway. > > I know the plants and filter help (along with PWC and my gravel siphon), but I still would like to make sure all of my tanks at least have some bottom feeders in them. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27828	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

Dora, The suggestion was for you to put some of them in any small tank (aquarium) you had, to photograph them -- not to put them in an established aquarium with your other fish. If you have no other aquariums (hospital, quarantine, etc. tank) as most people do, then the lack of one negates this option and the possiblity for you to properly photograph them to where they'd be identifiable. Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, which you will see if you go back to your posts as I suggested. Your post #27793 (May 11, '08, 10:37PM) does not include any link. Only your more recent post (#27811 -- May 12, '08, 7:17PM) from last night has the link to the videos -- and of course tonight's post where you repeated it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Raymond, they're wild fish. I'm not going to get them into an aquarium. > > So you're saying that in my original post I forgot the link, but last night I included one? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:50 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish > > > I regret to have to inform you that you did not post any such link in > your original message on this topic. If you thought you did, you are > mistaken. If you still think you did, just go up to the Group Page > and open message #27793 -- your message -- if you don't still have > this message as an email from the Group. > > I did check out the video shots from your follow-up post on this. > While I can see some fish here and there, most of them are very > small, with the remainder of them being extremely small and the rest > quite tiny. About the only features that can be distinguished are > that they're shaped like fish, with some of them being grey and > others darker although I think I did see one with some orange on it. > As they're all taken as looking down at them from the top or on an > angle from the top, with them being down in the water, its impossible > to see any colors and/or patterns on their sides or the shapes and > sizes of their fins. For us to be able to see what they are, you'll > need to catch some and photograph them from the side, in an > aquarium. > > If someone photographed your own fish from the top, I doubt if even > you would know what they are, so you can't expect to know what any of > these fish are without being able to view them where at least > something distinguishing can be seen of them. Otherwise, they just > look like a bunch of bait minnows as looking down at them in a can. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > I posted this link. > > > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/563388097ZRDahM > > > > I thought you had looked at it and decided that you couldn't make > out enough > > detail. But the fish and the camera won't do stills or closeups; > if I > > zoomed in the images just got blurrry. The last three films do > show fish > > moving slowly enough to make out many of their features. They're > also > > bigger fish. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:32 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish > > > > > > Close up??? What close up? Oh, so you thought you sent a photo! > > There was no photo posted to be seen; no attachment for one. Did you > > send a photo to the files? If so, what's the title? Ray > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: > 4/4/2008 6:02 PM > > > > > > > ---------- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.6/1360 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 6:02 PM > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27829	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: Local NJ fish

I’ve actually been wanting to do this for years catch some of the little fish in my stream and put them in an aquarium just to see what they are.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27830	From: bmp	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish--Dora

Hi Dora, The Biology Ponds are due north of the Main Building/Tower. If you are on foot, start at the West Mall with the Drag right behind you. Walk past the Union on your left, then the former Undergraduate Library (now called the Flawn Academic Center, I'm pretty sure). Turn left and follow the sidewalks that run between the Flawn Center and the Main Building. The ponds will pop up in front of you, across a curved narrow street/lane. The greenhouses are just to the west (left hand side) of the ponds. Some of the Biology dept. offices/classrooms are in the building just north of the ponds. If you haven't been there already, it's a great peaceful spot in the middle of a busy campus. I used to eat my lunch there. Good luck, just call the biology department offices to see what they can do to help you. As for Caroline, bear in mind that she doesn't usually work weekends at the store so call ahead to have a good chance of catching her. See you later, Beverly Peace, please! --- On Tue, 5/13/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish--Dora > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 6:21 PM > Biology ponds on campus? Where? > > I'll give Caroline a call. I don't feel too hot > about capturing some fish adn carrying them around town in > my backpack in a jar, though. I'd probably get run > out of the store for fish torture. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27831	From: Jim Russell	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: New Member Into & Request for Help

Hi Everyone! My name is Jim and I have been in the fish hobby for about 25 years. My family and I (wife and 3 kids) have had salt water tanks, fresh water tanks, terrarium tanks and for the last 8 years I have been maintaining a 600 gallon garden pond. I live in California near Stanford University so I don't have too worry about temperature extremes . . . just water chemicals and the local raccoons. My pond "was" populated by 6 koi and 10 large goldfish all of which I raised for the last 8 years from very small sizes. I say "was" populated because last week the fresh water refill valve on the pond stuck open and over night the pond was flooded with new water which contains both fluoride and chloramines. Needless to say when I went to see my friends in the morning it wasn't a pretty site. Since I had the opportunity to completely drain and clean the pond I also increased the size of the pond by about 100 gallons. I dug out the new area, laid my pond liner (same brand as the old liner) and bonded the new liner to the old liner with PVC glue. I let the glue cure for two days before adding water. I kept my original plants and about 100 gallons of the original water in two large plastic garbage cans dedicated to this purpose, in other words they are very clean. I filled the pond and used a de-chlorinator, waited one day and then added the original water and original plants. After the pond had settled for another two days I added 10 three inch size gold fish and 3 four inch size koi. The pond sat 3 days with water and without fish. Here is where I need your help: The fish were purchased from a long trusted aquarium store and looked great in their tanks. But when I place the fish in the pond they eventually all hid and now lay hiding at the bottom of the pond. They are not active and they have not really eaten any of the foods that I have introduced. They are not breathing hard but they don't eat and barely move. I have performed water quality tests twice a day for the last 4 days and all levels look fine. The only things I can come up with are: A. PVC cement has leached into the pond? B. All of the fish I purchased from this aquarium store are sick? C. There is some other chemical in the pond I have not treated? Please let me know if you have any ideas. I will attempt a partial water change today. Thanks! Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Into & Request for Help

First... sorry about your loss. Second, when repopulating your pond, please do not get any Koi. They grow much too large for a mini-pond like yours.. and the ones I've had. Koi need at least a 2,000G pond for just a couple of Koi. They grow to 3'+ in length and are big-time swimmers so a mini-pond is much too small for them. Your 700G pond would be fine for 10 or so goldfish and if you like the looks of Koi, look around for Sarasa Comet goldfish which have similar body markings but stay in the 12" range so they'll have swimming room in your pond. Now to your current problems. Give us your test results.. not just "OK". Give us numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature, KH and GH if you have all of these and any others you may have. Also give us your tap/source water parameters out of the tap. Also fill up a gallon jug with the same water and test it after 24 and 48 hours and give us those numbers as well. Most water source parameters will change quite a bit from out-the-tap to 48 hours so it's good to know what your water will do once it gets into your pond. Did you acclimate the fish slowly to the new water? What was the water parameters at the fish store compared to your own? pH shock, temperature shock, osmotic shock, etc. are all things that could result in the symptoms you are seeing. Further, you should return the Koi as I explained above.. they get much too large for your pond. That will help with the eventual cycling issues you will have in the coming days/weeks/months from starting over new. It might not be a bad idea to return all but one or two of the goldfish to make sure your pond is safe for them before risking all of the other fish. When the chlorinated water got into your pond and killed your fish, it also killed all of the bacteria (both good and not-so-good) that was in the pond so your ponds ecology needs to stabilize and grow again. You likely have none of the "good" Nitrifying bacteria so your pond will have to go through the nitrogen cycle all over again as well. Your plants will help but goldfish put out lots of ammonia via gill function and osmoregulatory system (urine, etc.) so you will need to test your ammonia and nitrite levels on a daily basis until the pond has fully cycled so you can be prepared to do PWC's as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels at a low enough level. You can add about 5 tablespoons of salt (diluted with pond water first and then slowly poured back in) which will help against nitrite poisoning once the nitrogen cycle gets to that stage but the salt won't prevent ammonia poisoning. Do you have a filter system? If you do, you could run some fresh carbon for two weeks which will help remove other possible contaminants. Carbon needs to be changed out every couple of weeks as it becomes much less effective after that time in most cases... unless the water was pristine already. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Russell Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member Into & Request for Help Hi Everyone! My name is Jim and I have been in the fish hobby for about 25 years. My family and I (wife and 3 kids) have had salt water tanks, fresh water tanks, terrarium tanks and for the last 8 years I have been maintaining a 600 gallon garden pond. I live in California near Stanford University so I don't have too worry about temperature extremes . . . just water chemicals and the local raccoons. My pond "was" populated by 6 koi and 10 large goldfish all of which I raised for the last 8 years from very small sizes. I say "was" populated because last week the fresh water refill valve on the pond stuck open and over night the pond was flooded with new water which contains both fluoride and chloramines. Needless to say when I went to see my friends in the morning it wasn't a pretty site. Since I had the opportunity to completely drain and clean the pond I also increased the size of the pond by about 100 gallons. I dug out the new area, laid my pond liner (same brand as the old liner) and bonded the new liner to the old liner with PVC glue. I let the glue cure for two days before adding water. I kept my original plants and about 100 gallons of the original water in two large plastic garbage cans dedicated to this purpose, in other words they are very clean. I filled the pond and used a de-chlorinator, waited one day and then added the original water and original plants. After the pond had settled for another two days I added 10 three inch size gold fish and 3 four inch size koi. The pond sat 3 days with water and without fish. Here is where I need your help: The fish were purchased from a long trusted aquarium store and looked great in their tanks. But when I place the fish in the pond they eventually all hid and now lay hiding at the bottom of the pond. They are not active and they have not really eaten any of the foods that I have introduced. They are not breathing hard but they don't eat and barely move. I have performed water quality tests twice a day for the last 4 days and all levels look fine. The only things I can come up with are: A. PVC cement has leached into the pond? B. All of the fish I purchased from this aquarium store are sick? C. There is some other chemical in the pond I have not treated? Please let me know if you have any ideas. I will attempt a partial water change today. Thanks! Jim No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1432 - Release Date: 5/14/2008 7:49 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27833	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question

Dr. Demento is still alive and well.the Loop here in Chicago still carries his show on Sunday nights :-D "Fish head fish heads, rolly poly fish heads.." (just to make it somewhat on topic *snicker*) Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOB Question Yes to all of the below :) I really did get funny looks when I was "Huffing" sponge or cushion material. -Mike Mike, I'm not allowed in JoAnn's any longer after they had the guys in the white oats come and get me for sucking and blowing through all the foam. I ratted Lynn out for suggesting it so he may be locked up since he doesn't ave anyone else to rat out... until now. Now he can rat out Mike to get ut of the crazy house faster. Watch out Mike, they're coming to take you away! Ho Ho He He Ha Haaa! God, I'm aging myself by remembering that song or that I'm admitting that I sed to listen to the Dr. Demento show. LOL ttp://www.anysongly <ttp://www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/n/napoleon-xiv/theyre-coming-to-take-me- > rics.com/lyrics/n/napoleon-xiv/theyre-coming-to-take-me- way.htm -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 9 May 2008 8:22 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HOB Question Mike, I'm not allowed in JoAnn's any longer after they had the guys in the white oats come and get me for sucking and blowing through all the foam. I ratted Lynn out for suggesting it so he may be locked up since he doesn't ave anyone else to rat out... until now. Now he can rat out Mike to get ut of the crazy house faster. Watch out Mike, they're coming to take you away! Ho Ho He He Ha Haaa! God, I'm aging myself by remembering that song or that I'm admitting that I sed to listen to the Dr. Demento show. LOL ttp://www.anysongly <ttp://www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/n/napoleon-xiv/theyre-coming-to-take-me- > rics.com/lyrics/n/napoleon-xiv/theyre-coming-to-take-me- way.htm Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On ehalf Of Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com ent: Friday, May 09, 2008 9:50 PM o: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOB Question ana, In my personal experience I was unable to find suitable foam at Joann abrics. The pores were too small to allow adequate water flow. I have not een there in a couple years though. Maybe next time Lenny needs some fabric r other sewing material he can check that out for us ;) Now after making hat crack I actually do need to go buy some yarn for Rainbow Spawning mops. You might look into a place that sells foam for aquarium filtration, maybe ond filtration. If you need a lot buying in bulk works great. You could probably buy a large aquaclear sponge and cut it to fit. I have ought their large sponges and cut them down to fit smaller aquaclears. I hink BigAlsOnline has there own brand of sponge material for aquaclears, ut then you have to pay shipping. Your LFS will probably be the best deal f you only need one. Always important to try and support them when we can. -Mike n a message dated 5/9/2008 7:07:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ana.m.gibbons@ <mailto:ana.m.gibbons%40gmail.com> gmail.com <mailto:lana.m.gibbons%40gmail.com> writes: Can you buy foam from the abric/craft store to use in a fish filter? If so, is there anything in articular that I should be looking for? Thanks! -Lana o virus found in this outgoing message. hecked by AVG. ersion: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 :24 PM ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ��`..��.><((((�>..��`..��..��`..�><((((�> �..��`..�. , ..��`...><((((�> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- �((((><..��`..��..��`..�<�((((><�..��`..�. , ..��`...<�((((><.��`..��. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs. <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27834	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Into & Request for Help

For the first few days, this is normal behavior for new fish into a pond. Since there are no other fish to snap them out of it, So long as they appear healthy, other than the behavior you report, I'd not worry about it too much. When they get hungry, they will start to come out of their shells. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Russell Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 1:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member Into & Request for Help Hi Everyone! My name is Jim and I have been in the fish hobby for about 25 years. My family and I (wife and 3 kids) have had salt water tanks, fresh water tanks, terrarium tanks and for the last 8 years I have been maintaining a 600 gallon garden pond. I live in California near Stanford University so I don't have too worry about temperature extremes . . . just water chemicals and the local raccoons. My pond "was" populated by 6 koi and 10 large goldfish all of which I raised for the last 8 years from very small sizes. I say "was" populated because last week the fresh water refill valve on the pond stuck open and over night the pond was flooded with new water which contains both fluoride and chloramines. Needless to say when I went to see my friends in the morning it wasn't a pretty site. Since I had the opportunity to completely drain and clean the pond I also increased the size of the pond by about 100 gallons. I dug out the new area, laid my pond liner (same brand as the old liner) and bonded the new liner to the old liner with PVC glue. I let the glue cure for two days before adding water. I kept my original plants and about 100 gallons of the original water in two large plastic garbage cans dedicated to this purpose, in other words they are very clean. I filled the pond and used a de-chlorinator, waited one day and then added the original water and original plants. After the pond had settled for another two days I added 10 three inch size gold fish and 3 four inch size koi. The pond sat 3 days with water and without fish. Here is where I need your help: The fish were purchased from a long trusted aquarium store and looked great in their tanks. But when I place the fish in the pond they eventually all hid and now lay hiding at the bottom of the pond. They are not active and they have not really eaten any of the foods that I have introduced. They are not breathing hard but they don't eat and barely move. I have performed water quality tests twice a day for the last 4 days and all levels look fine. The only things I can come up with are: A. PVC cement has leached into the pond? B. All of the fish I purchased from this aquarium store are sick? C. There is some other chemical in the pond I have not treated? Please let me know if you have any ideas. I will attempt a partial water change today. Thanks! Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27835	From: starla	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question

well, this just fits in with what I have found out !!! i was in the local' fish store, uknow the one you cab bot waok in the door as a newbie' and buy his fish, he has to get a water sample, well some think this is great !! and I can see why, there re some people out thier taht do not do thier research and will put any fish in any kinda water, well for me, I did and would get offended wioth this silly task. I brought him, my sample, then he wanted to see' my filter, ONLY to later suggest im over feeding ...DUH !! LOL<< and I need to buy his OMG the best in the world, (ginger) filters. LMAO!!! well I buy from them so yeppers I have that covered, now back to the subject in hand !!! GUESS WHAT I FOUND IN HIS STORAGE ROOM!!!!!! He has his' tanks, uknow one with a shark, and the big elabrate tank he used to bulid them for people, well up thier with other media amd tools for his tanks, was a huge egg crate !!!!!!! you know the yellowing one!!!!! I could not belive it, so then I started looking at all his tanks;' sure enough in every one there was a pc of this sponge stuck down into it with a bubbler system going down threw every tank. so I say why go buy the expensive foam, while your buying your fish from a store that is using a damn bed egg crate !!!!! I was appaled, then happy , now I gotta try it. I had bought some polyfill, foam from my craft store, but until now have been to scared to try it. then mem,me think . I have those sponge filyters, ukno wthe ones lee's makes. well they sink immediatly, just put in water with the hose hooked and they are staying at the bottom, I bought some from a seller on aquabid, and they are so dman boyount , they float, I have to literally use pcs of slate to hold them down, I am really thinking they may not suck up the mulm like I need them to. and I bought 6 !! so now I have 4 for sale .LOL ~!!!! MY point is, I am going to see what foam floats and what sinks, and thier has to be a chepo foam that will not harm fish !!! just has to !! this man is the guy you take your sick' fish to, and he cares about all his life!!! HE uses this egg crate !!! SO that tells me to go buy some and try it !! NO dont take yours off your bed and think its safe, but hey he's was up on a shelve not covered or anything !! so maybye dust IS ok..LMAO !! ethier way someone tell me more !!!! LOL ~~~~ really ~~~ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Dr. Demento is still alive and well.the Loop here in Chicago still carries > his show on Sunday nights :-D > > "Fish head fish heads, rolly poly fish heads.." (just to make it somewhat on > topic *snicker*) > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOB Question > > > > > Yes to all of the below :) > > I really did get funny looks when I was "Huffing" sponge or cushion > material. > > -Mike > > Mike, > I'm not allowed in JoAnn's any longer after they had the guys in the white > oats come and get me for sucking and blowing through all the foam. > I ratted Lynn out for suggesting it so he may be locked up since he doesn't > ave anyone else to rat out... until now. Now he can rat out Mike to get > ut of the crazy house faster. > Watch out Mike, they're coming to take you away! Ho Ho He He Ha Haaa! > God, I'm aging myself by remembering that song or that I'm admitting that I > sed to listen to the Dr. Demento show. LOL > ttp://www.anysongly > <ttp://www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/n/napoleon-xiv/theyre-coming-to- take-me- > > rics.com/lyrics/n/napoleon-xiv/theyre-coming-to-take-me- > way.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, 9 May 2008 8:22 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HOB Question > > Mike, > I'm not allowed in JoAnn's any longer after they had the guys in the white > oats come and get me for sucking and blowing through all the foam. > I ratted Lynn out for suggesting it so he may be locked up since he doesn't > ave anyone else to rat out... until now. Now he can rat out Mike to get > ut of the crazy house faster. > Watch out Mike, they're coming to take you away! Ho Ho He He Ha Haaa! > God, I'm aging myself by remembering that song or that I'm admitting that I > sed to listen to the Dr. Demento show. LOL > ttp://www.anysongly > <ttp://www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/n/napoleon-xiv/theyre-coming-to- take-me- > > rics.com/lyrics/n/napoleon-xiv/theyre-coming-to-take-me- > way.htm > Lenny Vasbinder > ish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > ----Original Message----- > rom: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > ehalf Of Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com > ent: Friday, May 09, 2008 9:50 PM > o: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOB Question > > ana, > In my personal experience I was unable to find suitable foam at Joann > abrics. The pores were too small to allow adequate water flow. I have not > een there in a couple years though. Maybe next time Lenny needs some fabric > r other sewing material he can check that out for us ;) Now after making > hat crack I actually do need to go buy some yarn for Rainbow Spawning mops. > You might look into a place that sells foam for aquarium filtration, maybe > ond filtration. If you need a lot buying in bulk works great. > You could probably buy a large aquaclear sponge and cut it to fit. I have > ought their large sponges and cut them down to fit smaller aquaclears. I > hink BigAlsOnline has there own brand of sponge material for aquaclears, > ut then you have to pay shipping. Your LFS will probably be the best deal > f you only need one. Always important to try and support them when we can. > -Mike > > n a message dated 5/9/2008 7:07:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > ana.m.gibbons@ <mailto:ana.m.gibbons%40gmail.com> gmail.com > <mailto:lana.m.gibbons%40gmail.com> writes: > Can you buy foam from the > abric/craft store to use in a fish filter? If so, is there anything in > articular that I should be looking for? > Thanks! > -Lana > > o virus found in this outgoing message. > hecked by AVG. > ersion: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 > :24 PM > > ----------------------------------- > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ´¯`..¸¸.><((((º>..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸><((((º> ¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...>< ((((º> > LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the > eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> > .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > º((((><..´¯`..¸¸..´¯`..¸<º((((><¸..´¯`..¸. , ..´¯`...<º ((((><.´¯`..¸¸. > e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > Individual Email | Traditional > http://docs. <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27836	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: help - sick elephant nose

My best guess is swim bladder issues... she's vertical and lethargic. ammonia is 0, Ph is high (higher than it tested last week... 7.6, which is higher than our tap water typically is, I'm not sure what caused it...) tank is 100 gallons, planted w/ carbon injection. Just did a 20 % water change yesterday morning. She was fine last night and then this morning I noticed her swimming starngely. I've had her for about a week, she's been eating regularly, active and I'm really worried. Anyway... quick questions: suggestions for best course of treatement? And should I remove her to another tank or let her be because moving can be stressful? (I have a 20 gallon whose sole inhabitant I can relocate temporarily) Testing nitrites/nitrates now... typing and testing at the same time and trying to convince myself that a sick fish isn't a reason to call in to work!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27837	From: H. B. Pattskyn	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Elephant nose follow up

tank is at about 80 degrees F Tap water tests at a ph of about 6.2.... tank is down to 7.2 after adding black water extract. heavily planted tanke w/ carbon injection, snails and rainbow fish (bi- colours)... any idea why the tank water is so much harder than the tap water...?? Genuinely perplexed about that. (I add liquid fertilizer for the plants, including iron and potassium (sp???) ) Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27838	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: HOB Question

Welcome to the wonderful world of DIY aquariums :) -Mike In a message dated 5/15/2008 11:42:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, starsunmoon30@... writes: well, this just fits in with what I have found out !!! i was in the local' fish store, uknow the one you cab bot waok in the door as a newbie' and buy his fish, he has to get a water sample, well some think this is great !! and I can see why, there re some people out thier taht do not do thier research and will put any fish in any kinda water, well for me, I did and would get offended wioth this silly task. I brought him, my sample, then he wanted to see' my filter, ONLY to later suggest im over feeding ...DUH !! LOL<< and I need to buy his OMG the best in the world, (ginger) filters. LMAO!!! well I buy from them so yeppers I have that covered, now back to the subject in hand !!! GUESS WHAT I FOUND IN HIS STORAGE ROOM!!!!!! He has his' tanks, uknow one with a shark, and the big elabrate tank he used to bulid them for people, well up thier with other media amd tools for his tanks, was a huge egg crate !!!!!!! you know the yellowing one!!!!! I could not belive it, so then I started looking at all his tanks;' sure enough in every one there was a pc of this sponge stuck down into it with a bubbler system going down threw every tank. so I say why go buy the expensive foam, while your buying your fish from a store that is using a damn bed egg crate !!!!! I was appaled, then happy , now I gotta try it. I had bought some polyfill, foam from my craft store, but until now have been to scared to try it. then mem,me think . I have those sponge filyters, ukno wthe ones lee's makes. well they sink immediatly, just put in water with the hose hooked and they are staying at the bottom, I bought some from a seller on aquabid, and they are so dman boyount , they float, I have to literally use pcs of slate to hold them down, I am really thinking they may not suck up the mulm like I need them to. and I bought 6 !! so now I have 4 for sale .LOL ~!!!! MY point is, I am going to see what foam floats and what sinks, and thier has to be a chepo foam that will not harm fish !!! just has to !! this man is the guy you take your sick' fish to, and he cares about all his life!!! HE uses this egg crate !!! SO that tells me to go buy some and try it !! NO dont take yours off your bed and think its safe, but hey he's was up on a shelve not covered or anything !! so maybye dust IS ok..LMAO !! ethier way someone tell me more !!!! LOL ~~~~ really ~~~ **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27839	From: Carmen H	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: Elephant nose follow up

Did you mean the reverse for Ph? 6.2 is more acidic than 7.2... Blackwater extract would make water more acidic, meaning a lower number... Carmen On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:54 AM, H. B. Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > tank is at about 80 degrees F > > Tap water tests at a ph of about 6.2.... tank is down to 7.2 after > adding black water extract.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27840	From: Andreas	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: help - sick elephant nose

you might want to also check if there is any electricity leaking into the tank ... they hate that a ground probe usually solves the problem A On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:33 AM, H. B. Pattskyn <thylacine_yawn@...> wrote: > My best guess is swim bladder issues... she's vertical and lethargic. > ammonia is 0, Ph is high (higher than it tested last week... 7.6, which > is higher than our tap water typically is, I'm not sure what caused > it...) tank is 100 gallons, planted w/ carbon injection. Just did a > 20 % water change yesterday morning. She was fine last night and then > this morning I noticed her swimming starngely. I've had her for about > a week, she's been eating regularly, active and I'm really worried. > > Anyway... quick questions: suggestions for best course of treatement? > And should I remove her to another tank or let her be because moving > can be stressful? (I have a 20 gallon whose sole inhabitant I can > relocate temporarily) > > Testing nitrites/nitrates now... typing and testing at the same time > and trying to convince myself that a sick fish isn't a reason to call > in to work! > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27841	From: Jim Russell	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Into & Request for Help

Thanks everyone. The last few days here have been pretty hot and combined with a new pond environment the fish must have been pretty traumatized. They are beginning to eat and swim around more. As I said before, the remodeled pond has several of the original plants and about 100 gallons of water from before the remodel. The water has remained quite stable and we have pretty good water from the Hetch Hetchy water shed, except for the chlorine that is added. Here are the numbers from the tests I have been performing: Nitrate: 15 ppm down from 20 ppm yesterday. Nitrite: between 0 and .5 ppm Hardness (GH) 75 ppm (soft) Alkalinity (KH) between 80 - 120 (hard to tell on my test) pH Level between 7.2 and 7.6 Ammonia is currently less than .05 I will search around but can anyone suggest a do-it-yourself chlorine filer? I have seen two types, charcoal and KDF copper/zinc. I am hesitant to go with a copper/zinc filter as introducing additional metals into the pond could be hazardous to the fish. Any comments? Thanks! Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > For the first few days, this is normal behavior for new fish into a > pond. Since there are no other fish to snap them out of it, So long as >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27843	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: help - sick elephant nose

I saw that you followed up with another post and I saw at least one reply. What brand/type of test kit are you using and is it in date? Do you understand how CO2 injection will affect your pH? Are you testing your tap water right out of the tap or are you allowing it to stabilize first... I call this "Finding your Tap/Source Water Baseline" in my article on my blog. What your water tests out of the tap is quite often nothing like what it will be 24 - 48 hours later in your tank. What kind of decorations do you have? What other chemicals are you adding and what type of dechlor product are you using? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 6:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] help - sick elephant nose My best guess is swim bladder issues... she's vertical and lethargic. ammonia is 0, Ph is high (higher than it tested last week... 7.6, which is higher than our tap water typically is, I'm not sure what caused it...) tank is 100 gallons, planted w/ carbon injection. Just did a 20 % water change yesterday morning. She was fine last night and then this morning I noticed her swimming starngely. I've had her for about a week, she's been eating regularly, active and I'm really worried. Anyway... quick questions: suggestions for best course of treatement? And should I remove her to another tank or let her be because moving can be stressful? (I have a 20 gallon whose sole inhabitant I can relocate temporarily) Testing nitrites/nitrates now... typing and testing at the same time and trying to convince myself that a sick fish isn't a reason to call in to work! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 7:24 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27844	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: Elephant nose follow up

QUIT trying to alter the pH... especially with a sick fish. Changing the pH around too much, too fast will harm a fish also. There was nothing wrong with your pH at 7.6... if that was accurate. Higher pH does not mean "harder"... just less acidic. pH is a test to show how acidic or alkaline water is... lower pH (below 7.0) is acidic.. higher pH (above 7.0) is alkaline or base. Hardness is determine by KH and GH levels so you would need those two test kits to learn your hardness levels. See my blog article on Establishing Your Tap Water Baseline. Your tap/source water could be high in CO2 when it comes out of the tap which is why it is testing with a low pH but as that excess CO2 outgases, the pH will rise accordingly to it's natural/buffered level. I suspect this is what is happening in your case but I would need to see your baseline test results to know for certain. I asked in my earlier email but I'll repeat the question. Do you understand how CO2 injection will affect the pH level in your tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 6:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Elephant nose follow up tank is at about 80 degrees F Tap water tests at a ph of about 6.2.... tank is down to 7.2 after adding black water extract. heavily planted tanke w/ carbon injection, snails and rainbow fish (bi- colours)... any idea why the tank water is so much harder than the tap water...?? Genuinely perplexed about that. (I add liquid fertilizer for the plants, including iron and potassium (sp???) ) Thanks. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 7:24 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27845	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: Elephant nose follow up

A pH of 6.2 is unusually low for tap water if it is from a municipal system. What is the pH of the water after you let it sit (not in the tank, but in another container, like a glass or bowl. More than likely, you will find the pH much higher after 24 hours. You mentioned that you are adding CO2 to your tank. This should bring the pH down in your tank, or maintain it, not raise it. Your fish has been under a lot of stress, from capture to your tank. If the pH is changing, that is adding more stress on the new fish. Rather than messing around with it, let it be and find its own level, and this will help all your fish. I'll spare you the quarantine talk for all new fish talk right now. However, this may be a good lesson why you should do the quarantine thing because you can more easily work with the fish one on one rather than involving all your other fish. Another thought, do you have any other electric fish in your tank? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H. B. Pattskyn Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Elephant nose follow up tank is at about 80 degrees F Tap water tests at a ph of about 6.2.... tank is down to 7.2 after adding black water extract. heavily planted tanke w/ carbon injection, snails and rainbow fish (bi- colours)... any idea why the tank water is so much harder than the tap water...?? Genuinely perplexed about that. (I add liquid fertilizer for the plants, including iron and potassium (sp???) ) Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27846	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/15/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Into & Request for Help

Do you use a dechlor product? I've never seen an article on a DIY dechlor filter but they do sell the replaceable filter cartridges and the housing can be assembled inline with a garden hose or plumbed in with PVC type plumbing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Russell Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Member Into & Request for Help Thanks everyone. The last few days here have been pretty hot and combined with a new pond environment the fish must have been pretty traumatized. They are beginning to eat and swim around more. As I said before, the remodeled pond has several of the original plants and about 100 gallons of water from before the remodel. The water has remained quite stable and we have pretty good water from the Hetch Hetchy water shed, except for the chlorine that is added. Here are the numbers from the tests I have been performing: Nitrate: 15 ppm down from 20 ppm yesterday. Nitrite: between 0 and .5 ppm Hardness (GH) 75 ppm (soft) Alkalinity (KH) between 80 - 120 (hard to tell on my test) pH Level between 7.2 and 7.6 Ammonia is currently less than .05 I will search around but can anyone suggest a do-it-yourself chlorine filer? I have seen two types, charcoal and KDF copper/zinc. I am hesitant to go with a copper/zinc filter as introducing additional metals into the pond could be hazardous to the fish. Any comments? Thanks! Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > For the first few days, this is normal behavior for new fish into a > pond. Since there are no other fish to snap them out of it, So long as > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 7:24 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27847	From: Keri Kimball	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife

Hey all I have a question. Besides Tubefex worms whatelse will a Black Ghost eat? Also beside feeder fish what else will a Clown Knife eat. I'm just concerened for my Ghost because I have 2 irrisdenscent sharks that like to swallow the worms and I want to make sure my Ghost gets food. Plus I have pibk tailed sharks that go after the feeders. Thanks for any and all help. Keri

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27848	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife

http://fish.mongabay.com/knifefish.htm has profiles on the two you are asking about and a few other knifefish species. The profiles include feeding tips, etc. You must have a REALLY HUGE aquarium... how big is it? The iridescent sharks and clown knifefish can grow to 40" each. The others only get to 12" - 24". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keri Kimball Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 9:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife Hey all I have a question. Besides Tubefex worms whatelse will a Black Ghost eat? Also beside feeder fish what else will a Clown Knife eat. I'm just concerened for my Ghost because I have 2 irrisdenscent sharks that like to swallow the worms and I want to make sure my Ghost gets food. Plus I have pibk tailed sharks that go after the feeders. Thanks for any and all help. Keri No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1446 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 7:42 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27849	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife

-Hi Keri, My Ghost Knife likes frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp. When they get bigger, they also will take small live mealworms. When they get REALLY big like over 8 inches (which I had happen once), they will take feeder guppies.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27850	From: Keri Kimball	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife

Thanks all, to answer the question on my tank size, it's a 125. We purchased it because our sharks are 12 and 9 inches in size. My things is when I loose them I will make that a salt water tank, I have always wanted one. Keri

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27851	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife

They should live for 10+ years. You will need a much larger tank for the knifefish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keri Kimball Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 11:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife Thanks all, to answer the question on my tank size, it's a 125. We purchased it because our sharks are 12 and 9 inches in size. My things is when I loose them I will make that a salt water tank, I have always wanted one. Keri No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1446 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 7:42 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27852	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Well Water

I'm moving from town water to well water - is there anything I should know? Thanks all!! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Slowly acclimate your fish to the new water. What are your current baseline test results, out the tap, at 24 hours and 48 hours... and what is the new water's baseline test results? Some wells will have high CO2 levels resulting in low pH test results but then the CO2 outgases and the pH will rise. Other wells have high levels of nitrates or phosphates. You should get your new water tested several times a year so you will know how it changes seasonally as that can affect the water depending on the depth of the well and the source of the well water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 7:44 PM To: aquaticlife Subject: [AquaticLife] Well Water I'm moving from town water to well water - is there anything I should know? Thanks all!! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1446 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 7:42 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27854	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Oh Lenny, I have no idea! I'm one of those newbies that just brings my water into the pet store to get it tested. LOL! To make it even more difficult, I don't have access to the new water yet. I do plan on bringing several gallons of old water with me. Do you suppose I could get away with bringing a sample of both the well water and the tap water to the pet store when I get there? Would they be able to tell me the big differences? The bettas will be traveling in their cups. I can't bring enough water to do a gradual change in the 10G tank, so I guess I'll be doing it in the individual cups. Would adding an ounce of well water (and removing an ounce of the tap water I bring) be gradual enough? That way it would take 8 total water changes for them to reach 100% well water. I usually get my water tested when I go to the pet store, which is every few weeks. Although, it may be less often when I get there as the store isn't as local. When you say several times a year, do you mean more towards once a month? or can I get away with once every 2 months? Thanks!!! -Lana On 5/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Slowly acclimate your fish to the new water. > > What are your current baseline test results, out the tap, at 24 hours and > 48 > hours... and what is the new water's baseline test results? > > Some wells will have high CO2 levels resulting in low pH test results but > then the CO2 outgases and the pH will rise. Other wells have high levels > of > nitrates or phosphates. > > You should get your new water tested several times a year so you will know > how it changes seasonally as that can affect the water depending on the > depth of the well and the source of the well water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27855	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

It would be best to be able to test the water at the three intervals so you would know what is happening to the water. Some water's go up in pH, other's go down in pH. Some waters come out the tap with high GH/KH levels but then the buffers wear out when exposed to light and air and the GH/KH levels go down.. this is usually what causes the pH change but the CO2 levels can also affect the pH levels. Without knowing your current baseline test results or the new water's baseline test result's, my only suggestion is to acclimate them very slowly. The safest way to acclimate fish to new water parameters is the drip method and without knowing what your new water is going to be, you should probably choose that method. http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=379&theme=Print er You could also go to the new place and fill several 5G buckets or one large clean garbage can with water and start using it in your current tanks when you do 10% PWC's so you can start acclimating them to the new water while still at the old house. How many tanks and what sizes do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Well Water Oh Lenny, I have no idea! I'm one of those newbies that just brings my water into the pet store to get it tested. LOL! To make it even more difficult, I don't have access to the new water yet. I do plan on bringing several gallons of old water with me. Do you suppose I could get away with bringing a sample of both the well water and the tap water to the pet store when I get there? Would they be able to tell me the big differences? The bettas will be traveling in their cups. I can't bring enough water to do a gradual change in the 10G tank, so I guess I'll be doing it in the individual cups. Would adding an ounce of well water (and removing an ounce of the tap water I bring) be gradual enough? That way it would take 8 total water changes for them to reach 100% well water. I usually get my water tested when I go to the pet store, which is every few weeks. Although, it may be less often when I get there as the store isn't as local. When you say several times a year, do you mean more towards once a month? or can I get away with once every 2 months? Thanks!!! -Lana On 5/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > Slowly acclimate your fish to the new water. > > What are your current baseline test results, out the tap, at 24 hours and > 48 > hours... and what is the new water's baseline test results? > > Some wells will have high CO2 levels resulting in low pH test results but > then the CO2 outgases and the pH will rise. Other wells have high levels > of > nitrates or phosphates. > > You should get your new water tested several times a year so you will know > how it changes seasonally as that can affect the water depending on the > depth of the well and the source of the well water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1446 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 7:42 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27856	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/16/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

I have a single 10 G tank - I want more but I don't have room. :) I think the drip method sounds most feasible, as the new house is too far away to be trucking the water back to the old house. Although, I'm not sure if the girls will be happy to be sharing a bucket for a few hours... I might have to set up 4 drips into 4 different buckets. They're darlings, just a tad territorial and I wouldn't want to piss them off. Thanks Lenny!! -Lana On 5/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It would be best to be able to test the water at the three intervals so you > would know what is happening to the water. Some water's go up in pH, > other's go down in pH. Some waters come out the tap with high GH/KH levels > but then the buffers wear out when exposed to light and air and the GH/KH > levels go down.. this is usually what causes the pH change but the CO2 > levels can also affect the pH levels. > > Without knowing your current baseline test results or the new water's > baseline test result's, my only suggestion is to acclimate them very > slowly. > > The safest way to acclimate fish to new water parameters is the drip method > and without knowing what your new water is going to be, you should probably > choose that method. > > http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=379&theme=Print > er > > You could also go to the new place and fill several 5G buckets or one large > clean garbage can with water and start using it in your current tanks when > you do 10% PWC's so you can start acclimating them to the new water while > still at the old house. > > How many tanks and what sizes do you have? > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27857	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

My well water is fabulous.no nitrates and relatively high pH for my Africans. With only a 10G tank, take 10G of old water with you when you move to set them up, and do small water changes daily after the move to migrate to the new water. If you have soft water fish and the well has hard water, I think that would be the most challenging. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 11:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Well Water I have a single 10 G tank - I want more but I don't have room. :) I think the drip method sounds most feasible, as the new house is too far away to be trucking the water back to the old house. Although, I'm not sure if the girls will be happy to be sharing a bucket for a few hours... I might have to set up 4 drips into 4 different buckets. They're darlings, just a tad territorial and I wouldn't want to piss them off. Thanks Lenny!! -Lana On 5/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: > > It would be best to be able to test the water at the three intervals so you > would know what is happening to the water. Some water's go up in pH, > other's go down in pH. Some waters come out the tap with high GH/KH levels > but then the buffers wear out when exposed to light and air and the GH/KH > levels go down.. this is usually what causes the pH change but the CO2 > levels can also affect the pH levels. > > Without knowing your current baseline test results or the new water's > baseline test result's, my only suggestion is to acclimate them very > slowly. > > The safest way to acclimate fish to new water parameters is the drip method > and without knowing what your new water is going to be, you should probably > choose that method. > > http://www.aquaria. <http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=379&theme=Prin t> info/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=379&theme=Print > er > > You could also go to the new place and fill several 5G buckets or one large > clean garbage can with water and start using it in your current tanks when > you do 10% PWC's so you can start acclimating them to the new water while > still at the old house. > > How many tanks and what sizes do you have? > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27858	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Aside from the fact that your proposed method of changing out 1 ounce of water per day (for 8 days) will not serve to exchange the old water for new completely (you'll still have 34.88% of the old water remaining) -- although close enough to introduce the fish to the "new" mixed water, are you saying that you normally keep your Bettas in 8 ounce cups??? If that's the case, why do you bother keeping Bettas at all if you can't give them the conditions in maintaining them with some quality of life? While we know that Bettas don't need much water to survive (they are shipped in 2 ounce plastic bags of water from the Far East), surely you can't enjoy very much of them besides seeing their physical appearance in very confined quarters, their eating and their occasionally coming up to the surface for additional oxygen. These tiny shipping bags, and even the small display globes the fish stores use for them, are only meant as temporary containers for these fish until they are sold. Most breeders in this country use at least 2 quart jars for their male stock, and that is only until they are sold. You would gain so much more from them (as would they) if you were to allow them the luxury of living in a more natural setting of a small aquarium where they could interact with their environment (substrate, plants, perhaps a few other small fish and/or snails) where you could further enjoy their behavior. If you don't have the additional room for one or two 2 1/2 gallon tanks, I would question your capabilities of being able to properly maintain these fish if I were you. BTW, if you plan on being in the hobby for any length of time, it would be more to your benefit to get some water testing kits, to enable you to know your water parameters at any given time, and afford you the convenience of having these facilities at hand. They're not very difficult to use. Ray > > Oh Lenny, I have no idea! I'm one of those newbies that just brings my > water into the pet store to get it tested. LOL! To make it even more > difficult, I don't have access to the new water yet. > > I do plan on bringing several gallons of old water with me. Do you suppose > I could get away with bringing a sample of both the well water and the tap > water to the pet store when I get there? Would they be able to tell me the > big differences? > > The bettas will be traveling in their cups. I can't bring enough water to > do a gradual change in the 10G tank, so I guess I'll be doing it in the > individual cups. Would adding an ounce of well water (and removing an ounce > of the tap water I bring) be gradual enough? That way it would take 8 total > water changes for them to reach 100% well water. > > I usually get my water tested when I go to the pet store, which is every few > weeks. Although, it may be less often when I get there as the store isn't > as local. When you say several times a year, do you mean more towards once > a month? or can I get away with once every 2 months? > > Thanks!!! > > -Lana > > On 5/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Slowly acclimate your fish to the new water. > > > > What are your current baseline test results, out the tap, at 24 hours and > > 48 > > hours... and what is the new water's baseline test results? > > > > Some wells will have high CO2 levels resulting in low pH test results but > > then the CO2 outgases and the pH will rise. Other wells have high levels > > of > > nitrates or phosphates. > > > > You should get your new water tested several times a year so you will know > > how it changes seasonally as that can affect the water depending on the > > depth of the well and the source of the well water. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27859	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: tank cleaning?

I'm new to aquariums and I have a 54 gallon - my question is this - when I do my vacuuming/PWC, I don't seem to have enough time to vacuum the entire tank before the water level starts getting too low.... is it standard to only vacuum one area at a time each time you do this? I have a lot of plants in my tank so it's also hard to vacuum around the plants. Am I using too much water pressure, resulting in too fast of a water loss? Thanks for your comments and thoughts! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27860	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

Depending on the size of the tank and the water flow I allow, I will do from 1/4 of the substrate, to the whole bottom. You just need to remember where you left off on the last water change. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? I'm new to aquariums and I have a 54 gallon - my question is this - when I do my vacuuming/PWC, I don't seem to have enough time to vacuum the entire tank before the water level starts getting too low.... is it standard to only vacuum one area at a time each time you do this? I have a lot of plants in my tank so it's also hard to vacuum around the plants. Am I using too much water pressure, resulting in too fast of a water loss? Thanks for your comments and thoughts! Shari ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27861	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Ray, I'm kind of offended. Maybe you should read my post more carefully? Or maybe look up my prior posts before accusing me of keeping my girls in their cups. The Bettas normally live in a 10G community tank that is well planted with all sorts of nooks and crannies for them to hide in. I feel the cups would be the safest way to travel with them considering they need air as a labyrinth fish and I'm sure they'd prefer the fresh stuff that gets in the cup from the holes in the top vs. stale stuff in a bag. I'm kind of picky about the air they breathe - if I notice the top of their aquarium gets too misty, I'll open the flap because I know I wouldn't want to breathe that air. Bettas, when in their cups, require 100% water changes - so yes, 1 ounce per day *would* be 100% new water. I will probably keep them in their cups until I can refill the tank and ensure the parameters are under control. I estimate about a week for that, which would give me enough time to do the water changes I mentioned. I'd love to do a whole fishless cycle but I don't think that would be realistic. If I did the water changes in the cups, it would go like this: Day 1: 100% water change to 1 ounce well, 7 ounce old Day 2: 100% water change to 2 ounce well, 6 ounce old Day 3: 100% water change to 3 ounce well, 5 ounce old Day 4: 100% water change to 4 ounce well, 4 ounce old Day 5: 100% water change to 5 ounce well, 3 ounce old Day 6: 100% water change to 6 ounce well, 2 ounce old Day 7: 100% water change to 7 ounce well, 1 ounce old Day 8: 100% water change to 8 ounce well However, I am considering Lenny's suggestion of the drip in a bucket method. I just know the girls won't be happy about sharing a few cups on water in a pail. They do fine in their planted tank, but I would never put them in less than the full 10G together (which I know isn't a full 10G but hell, its better than the 2-3G the drip method maxes out). So I'm debating between a 4 bucket drip and the cup method I mentioned above. -Lana, who is still insulted that Ray of all people on this list couldn't be bothered to read before being ridiculously rude. On 5/17/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Aside from the fact that your proposed method of changing out 1 ounce > of water per day (for 8 days) will not serve to exchange the old > water for new completely (you'll still have 34.88% of the old water > remaining) -- although close enough to introduce the fish to > the "new" mixed water, are you saying that you normally keep your > Bettas in 8 ounce cups??? If that's the case, why do you bother > keeping Bettas at all if you can't give them the conditions in > maintaining them with some quality of life? > > While we know that Bettas don't need much water to survive (they are > shipped in 2 ounce plastic bags of water from the Far East), surely > you can't enjoy very much of them besides seeing their physical > appearance in very confined quarters, their eating and their > occasionally coming up to the surface for additional oxygen. These > tiny shipping bags, and even the small display globes the fish stores > use for them, are only meant as temporary containers for these fish > until they are sold. Most breeders in this country use at least 2 > quart jars for their male stock, and that is only until they are sold. > > You would gain so much more from them (as would they) if you were to > allow them the luxury of living in a more natural setting of a small > aquarium where they could interact with their environment (substrate, > plants, perhaps a few other small fish and/or snails) where you could > further enjoy their behavior. If you don't have the additional room > for one or two 2 1/2 gallon tanks, I would question your capabilities > of being able to properly maintain these fish if I were you. > > BTW, if you plan on being in the hobby for any length of time, it > would be more to your benefit to get some water testing kits, to > enable you to know your water parameters at any given time, and > afford you the convenience of having these facilities at hand. > They're not very difficult to use. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27862	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

I vacuum the whole surface quickly and then go back and do about half to the depth of the substrate. Are you doing 50% water changes? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? I'm new to aquariums and I have a 54 gallon - my question is this - when I do my vacuuming/PWC, I don't seem to have enough time to vacuum the entire tank before the water level starts getting too low.... is it standard to only vacuum one area at a time each time you do this? I have a lot of plants in my tank so it's also hard to vacuum around the plants. Am I using too much water pressure, resulting in too fast of a water loss? Thanks for your comments and thoughts! Shari [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27863	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

I'm a newby too, and I don't really know. I'm wondering what is normally recommended to do when travelling or moving with tropical fish. I'm thinking that an 8 ounce cup that you just change one ounce a day won't provide enough oxygen. Maybe a small tank with a battery operated pump would work better. How are fish normally shipped, anyhow? That's a big a mystery to me as Lana's cups. I mean, a number of online pet stores ship fish right through the mail. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Lana Gibbons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water Ray, I'm kind of offended. Maybe you should read my post more carefully? Or maybe look up my prior posts before accusing me of keeping my girls in their cups. The Bettas normally live in a 10G community tank that is well planted with all sorts of nooks and crannies for them to hide in. I feel the cups would be the safest way to travel with them considering they need air as a labyrinth fish and I'm sure they'd prefer the fresh stuff that gets in the cup from the holes in the top vs. stale stuff in a bag. I'm kind of picky about the air they breathe - if I notice the top of their aquarium gets too misty, I'll open the flap because I know I wouldn't want to breathe that air. Bettas, when in their cups, require 100% water changes - so yes, 1 ounce per day *would* be 100% new water. I will probably keep them in their cups until I can refill the tank and ensure the parameters are under control. I estimate about a week for that, which would give me enough time to do the water changes I mentioned. I'd love to do a whole fishless cycle but I don't think that would be realistic. If I did the water changes in the cups, it would go like this: Day 1: 100% water change to 1 ounce well, 7 ounce old Day 2: 100% water change to 2 ounce well, 6 ounce old Day 3: 100% water change to 3 ounce well, 5 ounce old Day 4: 100% water change to 4 ounce well, 4 ounce old Day 5: 100% water change to 5 ounce well, 3 ounce old Day 6: 100% water change to 6 ounce well, 2 ounce old Day 7: 100% water change to 7 ounce well, 1 ounce old Day 8: 100% water change to 8 ounce well However, I am considering Lenny's suggestion of the drip in a bucket method. I just know the girls won't be happy about sharing a few cups on water in a pail. They do fine in their planted tank, but I would never put them in less than the full 10G together (which I know isn't a full 10G but hell, its better than the 2-3G the drip method maxes out). So I'm debating between a 4 bucket drip and the cup method I mentioned above. -Lana, who is still insulted that Ray of all people on this list couldn't be bothered to read before being ridiculously rude. On 5/17/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Aside from the fact that your proposed method of changing out 1 ounce > of water per day (for 8 days) will not serve to exchange the old > water for new completely (you'll still have 34.88% of the old water > remaining) -- although close enough to introduce the fish to > the "new" mixed water, are you saying that you normally keep your > Bettas in 8 ounce cups??? If that's the case, why do you bother > keeping Bettas at all if you can't give them the conditions in > maintaining them with some quality of life? > > While we know that Bettas don't need much water to survive (they are > shipped in 2 ounce plastic bags of water from the Far East), surely > you can't enjoy very much of them besides seeing their physical > appearance in very confined quarters, their eating and their > occasionally coming up to the surface for additional oxygen. These > tiny shipping bags, and even the small display globes the fish stores > use for them, are only meant as temporary containers for these fish > until they are sold. Most breeders in this country use at least 2 > quart jars for their male stock, and that is only until they are sold. > > You would gain so much more from them (as would they) if you were to > allow them the luxury of living in a more natural setting of a small > aquarium where they could interact with their environment (substrate, > plants, perhaps a few other small fish and/or snails) where you could > further enjoy their behavior. If you don't have the additional room > for one or two 2 1/2 gallon tanks, I would question your capabilities > of being able to properly maintain these fish if I were you. > > BTW, if you plan on being in the hobby for any length of time, it > would be more to your benefit to get some water testing kits, to > enable you to know your water parameters at any given time, and > afford you the convenience of having these facilities at hand. > They're not very difficult to use. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27864	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

Yup, that's what's done. One section of the tank at a time. Now, I don't know if that goes for if you change 10% of the water once a month or so as some people with established tanks seem to do. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: shari rivenburg To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:02 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? I'm new to aquariums and I have a 54 gallon - my question is this - when I do my vacuuming/PWC, I don't seem to have enough time to vacuum the entire tank before the water level starts getting too low.... is it standard to only vacuum one area at a time each time you do this? I have a lot of plants in my tank so it's also hard to vacuum around the plants. Am I using too much water pressure, resulting in too fast of a water loss? Thanks for your comments and thoughts! Shari [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27865	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Fish are shipped in plastic bags with a minimum of water and with oxygen rather than air taking up the rest of the space. Some fish are tranquilized prior to shipment, and they are not fed for a day or two prior to shipment. Sometime ago, I read about goldfish being shipped from overseas tranquilized and in wet newspaper. Experiments were said to be successful with more fish shipped in a given space and losses no greater and often less than traditional methods. I do not know if this method is being used or not today. There are also "breathable" bags where air can pass through the bag, but not the water. Many hobbyists use these bags, which are, naturally, more expensive, for shipping their fish. This does away with the need to have a canister of oxygen available when shipments are made. As for the betas, they will be fine in the cups as a temporary home. While water quality is a concern, the availability of oxygen in the water can be minimal for these fish since they are labyrinth fish and can breathe atmospheric air. If Lana has only a 10 gallon tank, a couple of buckets can hold enough water to refill the tank, and small water changes can be made daily to get the fish acclimated to the new water from the well. FWIW, I have had far less problems with well water than with municipal water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water I'm a newby too, and I don't really know. I'm wondering what is normally recommended to do when travelling or moving with tropical fish. I'm thinking that an 8 ounce cup that you just change one ounce a day won't provide enough oxygen. Maybe a small tank with a battery operated pump would work better. How are fish normally shipped, anyhow? That's a big a mystery to me as Lana's cups. I mean, a number of online pet stores ship fish right through the mail. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Lana Gibbons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water Ray, I'm kind of offended. Maybe you should read my post more carefully? Or maybe look up my prior posts before accusing me of keeping my girls in their cups. The Bettas normally live in a 10G community tank that is well planted with all sorts of nooks and crannies for them to hide in. I feel the cups would be the safest way to travel with them considering they need air as a labyrinth fish and I'm sure they'd prefer the fresh stuff that gets in the cup from the holes in the top vs. stale stuff in a bag. I'm kind of picky about the air they breathe - if I notice the top of their aquarium gets too misty, I'll open the flap because I know I wouldn't want to breathe that air. Bettas, when in their cups, require 100% water changes - so yes, 1 ounce per day *would* be 100% new water. I will probably keep them in their cups until I can refill the tank and ensure the parameters are under control. I estimate about a week for that, which would give me enough time to do the water changes I mentioned. I'd love to do a whole fishless cycle but I don't think that would be realistic. If I did the water changes in the cups, it would go like this: Day 1: 100% water change to 1 ounce well, 7 ounce old Day 2: 100% water change to 2 ounce well, 6 ounce old Day 3: 100% water change to 3 ounce well, 5 ounce old Day 4: 100% water change to 4 ounce well, 4 ounce old Day 5: 100% water change to 5 ounce well, 3 ounce old Day 6: 100% water change to 6 ounce well, 2 ounce old Day 7: 100% water change to 7 ounce well, 1 ounce old Day 8: 100% water change to 8 ounce well However, I am considering Lenny's suggestion of the drip in a bucket method. I just know the girls won't be happy about sharing a few cups on water in a pail. They do fine in their planted tank, but I would never put them in less than the full 10G together (which I know isn't a full 10G but hell, its better than the 2-3G the drip method maxes out). So I'm debating between a 4 bucket drip and the cup method I mentioned above. -Lana, who is still insulted that Ray of all people on this list couldn't be bothered to read before being ridiculously rude. On 5/17/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Aside from the fact that your proposed method of changing out 1 ounce > of water per day (for 8 days) will not serve to exchange the old > water for new completely (you'll still have 34.88% of the old water > remaining) -- although close enough to introduce the fish to > the "new" mixed water, are you saying that you normally keep your > Bettas in 8 ounce cups??? If that's the case, why do you bother > keeping Bettas at all if you can't give them the conditions in > maintaining them with some quality of life? > > While we know that Bettas don't need much water to survive (they are > shipped in 2 ounce plastic bags of water from the Far East), surely > you can't enjoy very much of them besides seeing their physical > appearance in very confined quarters, their eating and their > occasionally coming up to the surface for additional oxygen. These > tiny shipping bags, and even the small display globes the fish stores > use for them, are only meant as temporary containers for these fish > until they are sold. Most breeders in this country use at least 2 > quart jars for their male stock, and that is only until they are sold. > > You would gain so much more from them (as would they) if you were to > allow them the luxury of living in a more natural setting of a small > aquarium where they could interact with their environment (substrate, > plants, perhaps a few other small fish and/or snails) where you could > further enjoy their behavior. If you don't have the additional room > for one or two 2 1/2 gallon tanks, I would question your capabilities > of being able to properly maintain these fish if I were you. > > BTW, if you plan on being in the hobby for any length of time, it > would be more to your benefit to get some water testing kits, to > enable you to know your water parameters at any given time, and > afford you the convenience of having these facilities at hand. > They're not very difficult to use. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27866	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

Water changes should be made at least weekly, no matter how long the tank has been established. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Yup, that's what's done. One section of the tank at a time. Now, I don't know if that goes for if you change 10% of the water once a month or so as some people with established tanks seem to do. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: shari rivenburg To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:02 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? I'm new to aquariums and I have a 54 gallon - my question is this - when I do my vacuuming/PWC, I don't seem to have enough time to vacuum the entire tank before the water level starts getting too low.... is it standard to only vacuum one area at a time each time you do this? I have a lot of plants in my tank so it's also hard to vacuum around the plants. Am I using too much water pressure, resulting in too fast of a water loss? Thanks for your comments and thoughts! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27867	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

It sounds like you are using a Python (type) water change, gravel vacuum system. I use my Python on my 65G, 48" x 18" footprint tank and I'm able to vacuum 1/2 the tank really good with a 25% PWC. I do 25% PWC's each week so I do alternate which end of the tank I vacuum with each PWC. I also have two filter systems running on the tank so I have my schedule set up to clean one side one week and the other side the next week... this includes the gravel, filter system, etc. This also keeps one side fully "cycled" so you won't have to worry as much about a mini-cycle when doing heavy cleaning. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? I'm new to aquariums and I have a 54 gallon - my question is this - when I do my vacuuming/PWC, I don't seem to have enough time to vacuum the entire tank before the water level starts getting too low.... is it standard to only vacuum one area at a time each time you do this? I have a lot of plants in my tank so it's also hard to vacuum around the plants. Am I using too much water pressure, resulting in too fast of a water loss? Thanks for your comments and thoughts! Shari No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1448 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 7:42 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27868	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Wait a minute - Lana, are you just travelling across town with your fish in those cups? LOL! I visualized you travelling across the country. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Lana Gibbons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Well Water I have a single 10 G tank - I want more but I don't have room. :) I think the drip method sounds most feasible, as the new house is too far away to be trucking the water back to the old house. Although, I'm not sure if the girls will be happy to be sharing a bucket for a few hours... I might have to set up 4 drips into 4 different buckets. They're darlings, just a tad territorial and I wouldn't want to piss them off. Thanks Lenny!! -Lana On 5/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It would be best to be able to test the water at the three intervals so you > would know what is happening to the water. Some water's go up in pH, > other's go down in pH. Some waters come out the tap with high GH/KH levels > but then the buffers wear out when exposed to light and air and the GH/KH > levels go down.. this is usually what causes the pH change but the CO2 > levels can also affect the pH levels. > > Without knowing your current baseline test results or the new water's > baseline test result's, my only suggestion is to acclimate them very > slowly. > > The safest way to acclimate fish to new water parameters is the drip method > and without knowing what your new water is going to be, you should probably > choose that method. > > http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=379&theme=Print > er > > You could also go to the new place and fill several 5G buckets or one large > clean garbage can with water and start using it in your current tanks when > you do 10% PWC's so you can start acclimating them to the new water while > still at the old house. > > How many tanks and what sizes do you have? > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27869	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

As a labyrinth fish, Bettas breathe a portion of their oxygen from the surface. I don't really have room for a tank in my car, as I am doing a state-to-state move. I've heard of people putting their fish in trash bag lined rubbermaid containers with the lids fastened on, so I don't see what the big deal with my girl's cups is. My local fish store says the bettas arrive in their cups, which is where I got the idea to transport them in the cups in the first place. -Lana On 5/17/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I'm a newby too, and I don't really know. I'm wondering what is normally > recommended to do when travelling or moving with tropical fish. > > > I'm thinking that an 8 ounce cup that you just change one ounce a day won't > provide enough oxygen. Maybe a small tank with a battery operated pump > would work better. > > How are fish normally shipped, anyhow? That's a big a mystery to me as > Lana's cups. I mean, a number of online pet stores ship fish right > through the mail. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27870	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

I agree. The percentage amount for a weekly PWC can vary based on the bioload in the tank but they should get at least some fresh water every week to keep the water parameters more stable. Waiting a month between PWC's could allow the water to change too much and then when doing the PWC, it could change them back too much, too fast and cause shock or stress issues to the fish. Plus.. who wants to swim around in their own waste for a month? A week is long enough. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Water changes should be made at least weekly, no matter how long the tank has been established. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Yup, that's what's done. One section of the tank at a time. Now, I don't know if that goes for if you change 10% of the water once a month or so as some people with established tanks seem to do. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: shari rivenburg To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:02 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? I'm new to aquariums and I have a 54 gallon - my question is this - when I do my vacuuming/PWC, I don't seem to have enough time to vacuum the entire tank before the water level starts getting too low.... is it standard to only vacuum one area at a time each time you do this? I have a lot of plants in my tank so it's also hard to vacuum around the plants. Am I using too much water pressure, resulting in too fast of a water loss? Thanks for your comments and thoughts! Shari No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1448 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 7:42 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27871	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

Steve, when one does this weekly water change on an established tank, how much water do you recommend replacing? I keep seeing 10% - in addition to once every month or two. Doesn't seem like enough. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Water changes should be made at least weekly, no matter how long the tank has been established. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Yup, that's what's done. One section of the tank at a time. Now, I don't know if that goes for if you change 10% of the water once a month or so as some people with established tanks seem to do. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: shari rivenburg To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:02 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? I'm new to aquariums and I have a 54 gallon - my question is this - when I do my vacuuming/PWC, I don't seem to have enough time to vacuum the entire tank before the water level starts getting too low.... is it standard to only vacuum one area at a time each time you do this? I have a lot of plants in my tank so it's also hard to vacuum around the plants. Am I using too much water pressure, resulting in too fast of a water loss? Thanks for your comments and thoughts! Shari [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27872	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Lana, The cups are fine as long as the water does not slosh out of the cups and they do not overheat or freeze. If the cups have lids with a hole in the top even better. I have not had to move state to state, but county to county several times in the last five years and I started using buckets with holes in the lids. If it was more than a couple hours the cichlids and catfish would get a little oxygen deprived, but then they were also over crowded. I had 35 tanks of fish to move so space was tight. If I had an oxygen tank to use I would have gone the bag route. -Mike As a labyrinth fish, Bettas breathe a portion of their oxygen from the surface. I don't really have room for a tank in my car, as I am doing a state-to-state move. I've heard of people putting their fish in trash bag lined rubbermaid containers with the lids fastened on, so I don't see what the big deal with my girl's cups is. My local fish store says the bettas arrive in their cups, which is where I got the idea to transport them in the cups in the first place. -Lana -----Original Message----- From: Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 17 May 2008 5:33 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water As a labyrinth fish, Bettas breathe a portion of their oxygen from the surface. I don't really have room for a tank in my car, as I am doing a state-to-state move. I've heard of people putting their fish in trash bag lined rubbermaid containers with the lids fastened on, so I don't see what the big deal with my girl's cups is. My local fish store says the bettas arrive in their cups, which is where I got the idea to transport them in the cups in the first place. -Lana On 5/17/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I'm a newby too, and I don't really know. I'm wondering what is normally > recommended to do when travelling or moving with tropical fish. > > > I'm thinking that an 8 ounce cup that you just change one ounce a day won't > provide enough oxygen. Maybe a small tank with a battery operated pump > would work better. > > How are fish normally shipped, anyhow? That's a big a mystery to me as > Lana's cups. I mean, a number of online pet stores ship fish right > through the mail. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27873	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

Have you ever been to Telegraph avenue in Berkeley or Haight street in San Francisco? Add patchouli smell to the waste and you can get a vision of it. Plus.. who wants to swim around in their own waste for a onth? A week is long enough. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 17 May 2008 6:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? I agree. The percentage amount for a weekly PWC can vary based on the ioload in the tank but they should get at least some fresh water every week o keep the water parameters more stable. Waiting a month between PWC's ould allow the water to change too much and then when doing the PWC, it ould change them back too much, too fast and cause shock or stress issues o the fish. Plus.. who wants to swim around in their own waste for a onth? A week is long enough. Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On ehalf Of Steve Szabo ent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:02 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ubject: RE: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Water changes should be made at least weekly, no matter how long the tank as been established. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith ent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:29 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Yup, that's what's done. One section of the tank at a time. Now, I don't now if that goes for if you change 10% of the water once a month or so as ome people with established tanks seem to do. Yours, ora Smith ustin, TX iggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ---- Original Message ----- rom: shari rivenburg o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:02 AM ubject: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? I'm new to aquariums and I have a 54 gallon - my question is this - when I o my vacuuming/PWC, I don't seem to have enough time to vacuum the entire ank before the water level starts getting too low.... is it standard to nly vacuum one area at a time each time you do this? I have a lot of plants n my tank so it's also hard to vacuum around the plants. Am I using too uch water pressure, resulting in too fast of a water loss? Thanks for your comments and thoughts! Shari No virus found in this outgoing message. hecked by AVG. ersion: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1448 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 :42 PM ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27874	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

Whew... I'm glad you didn't throw Bourbon Street during Mardi Gras into the mix. If Bourbon Street didn't make your list, I'd hate to smell them other places. LOL Actually, since Katrina, we have a new waste disposal company taking care of the French Quarter and they completely wash down the streets and sidewalks a couple times a week so the French Quarter is now one of the cleaner places to visit... we're not up there with DisneyWorld yet but we're a heck of a lot better than we were a few years ago. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Have you ever been to Telegraph avenue in Berkeley or Haight street in San Francisco? Add patchouli smell to the waste and you can get a vision of it. Plus.. who wants to swim around in their own waste for a onth? A week is long enough. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, 17 May 2008 6:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? I agree. The percentage amount for a weekly PWC can vary based on the ioload in the tank but they should get at least some fresh water every week o keep the water parameters more stable. Waiting a month between PWC's ould allow the water to change too much and then when doing the PWC, it ould change them back too much, too fast and cause shock or stress issues o the fish. Plus.. who wants to swim around in their own waste for a onth? A week is long enough. Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On ehalf Of Steve Szabo ent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:02 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ubject: RE: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Water changes should be made at least weekly, no matter how long the tank as been established. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith ent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:29 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Yup, that's what's done. One section of the tank at a time. Now, I don't now if that goes for if you change 10% of the water once a month or so as ome people with established tanks seem to do. Yours, ora Smith ustin, TX iggernut24@... <mailto:iggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ---- Original Message ----- rom: shari rivenburg o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:02 AM ubject: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? I'm new to aquariums and I have a 54 gallon - my question is this - when I o my vacuuming/PWC, I don't seem to have enough time to vacuum the entire ank before the water level starts getting too low.... is it standard to nly vacuum one area at a time each time you do this? I have a lot of plants n my tank so it's also hard to vacuum around the plants. Am I using too uch water pressure, resulting in too fast of a water loss? Thanks for your comments and thoughts! Shari No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1448 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 7:42 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27875	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/17/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

There are a lot of variables in there to consider when determining how much water should be changed. When I was keeping and raising _Julidochromis transcriptus_ they would get no more than a 5% water change because any change in water parameters was tough on that fish. If you have a tank at or over its limits for fish, a 50% change would not be out of line. Same if you have "dirty" fish like goldfish or Oscars in a tank or several smaller changes during the course of a week. Fry tanks need many water changes during a week to allow for maximum growth and cleanliness. A 10% change is a good number to aim at since it does not radically change water parameters, and in a proper tank without too many fish (my tanks may seem to be sparsely populated compared to others I have seen) it is sufficient to remove enough nitrates, hormones and other DOCs to maintain good water quality. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Steve, when one does this weekly water change on an established tank, how much water do you recommend replacing? I keep seeing 10% - in addition to once every month or two. Doesn't seem like enough. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Water changes should be made at least weekly, no matter how long the tank has been established. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? Yup, that's what's done. One section of the tank at a time. Now, I don't know if that goes for if you change 10% of the water once a month or so as some people with established tanks seem to do. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: shari rivenburg To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:02 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? I'm new to aquariums and I have a 54 gallon - my question is this - when I do my vacuuming/PWC, I don't seem to have enough time to vacuum the entire tank before the water level starts getting too low.... is it standard to only vacuum one area at a time each time you do this? I have a lot of plants in my tank so it's also hard to vacuum around the plants. Am I using too much water pressure, resulting in too fast of a water loss? Thanks for your comments and thoughts! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27876	From: Rob DeSanno	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

This is a GREAT thread because i'm new to this as well and had the same exact question as Shari. I've been doing a 40% water change on my 55g tank every week, via vacuuming the gravel, but it seems like i'm sucking out more water than contaminates. Either that, or my tank is noticeably nasty. Right now i'm trying to deal with a semi-high nitrate level that i'm having a hard time controlling and was hoping this thread would show me where I am going wrong with cleaning my tank. I guess what i'm curious to read is how everyone does small water changes and still have their levels as normal? Steve, how do you keep your gravel clean with a 5% water change? Is there some tricks you can suggest to help me out trying to keep mine clean? Are plants the key? On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > There are a lot of variables in there to consider when determining how > much water should be changed. When I was keeping and raising > _Julidochromis transcriptus_ they would get no more than a 5% water > change because any change in water parameters was tough on that fish. If > you have a tank at or over its limits for fish, a 50% change would not > be out of line. Same if you have "dirty" fish like goldfish or Oscars in > a tank or several smaller changes during the course of a week. Fry tanks > need many water changes during a week to allow for maximum growth and > cleanliness. > > A 10% change is a good number to aim at since it does not radically > change water parameters, and in a proper tank without too many fish (my > tanks may seem to be sparsely populated compared to others I have seen) > it is sufficient to remove enough nitrates, hormones and other DOCs to > maintain good water quality. > > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27877	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Lana, I regret that you were offended by my reply. It, of course, was not intended to do so as I was only going with what I understood from your message. Although you did memtion a 10 gallon tank, it did not appear clear to me that you housed the Bettas in it, especially since you mentioned "bettaS" (pleural). As such, with your not expressly stating anywhere in that post that you kept Bettas in the 10 gallon, coupled with the common knowledge that not more than one Betta can be kept in one tank (unless they're females), I did not understand it to read that you were keeping Bettas (pleural) in the 10 gallon tank. If you have female Bettas, that was not clearly stated (at all) either. Understanding your post as it was presented, I had no reason to research the history of this thread. Since it seems now, from your reaction, that these wwere not the facts, it appears as though this was just a case of mis-communication resulting in a mis- understanding. BTW, atmospheric oxygen sealed in fish bags will not go "stale" anytime soon, so there was no cause for the "caution" taken with using cups (with perforated lids) for the fish to transport them. As for your numbers, with one ounce of water per day (for 8 days) to replace the water in an 8 ounce cup, I'd just like to point out a major factor which you are missing. With each succeeding 1 ounce water change of the 8 ounce cup, as each day goes by, you will be increasingly changing out (removing) more and more of the fresh water that you've been adding the previous days as part of the exchanged water. As I stated, the end result of your water changing method will result in your still having a remainder of 34.88% of the old water remaining in the cup, although I this figure is a result of carrying water changes out for 9 days. For changing water for 8 days it results in still having 43.06% of old water -- and it goes like this: One ounce water change per day, of an 8 ounce cup, for 8 days = a 10% by volume of the water being changed daily (old and/or new). First day -- Changing out 10% of the 100% of old water leaves 90% of the old water remaining (now with 10% of new water). Second day -- Changing out 10% of the 90% of old water remaining leaves 81% of the old water remaining (you've removed a portion of the new water you've previously put in). Third day -- Changing out 10% of the 81% of old water remaining leaves 72.9% of the old water remaining (you've removed a yet larger portion of the new water previously added). Fourth day -- Changing out 10% of the 72.9% of the old water remaining leaves 65.61% of the old water remaining (tou've removed an even larger portion with this, of the new water previously added). Fifth day -- Changing out 10% of the 65.61% of the old water remaining leaves 59.05% of the old water remaing (with even more new water removed). Sixth day -- Changing out 10% of the 59.05% of the old water remaining leaves 53.15% of the old water remaining. Seventh day -- Changing out 10% of the 53.15% of the old water now remaining leaves 47.84% of the iold water remaining. Eighth day -- Changing out 10% of this 47.84% of the old water now remaining leaves 43.06% of the old water still remaining (with a greater portion of the new water being removed each time, as the previous amount of it is increased each previous time). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > I'm kind of offended. Maybe you should read my post more carefully? Or > maybe look up my prior posts before accusing me of keeping my girls in their > cups. The Bettas normally live in a 10G community tank that is well planted > with all sorts of nooks and crannies for them to hide in. I feel the cups > would be the safest way to travel with them considering they need air as a > labyrinth fish and I'm sure they'd prefer the fresh stuff that gets in the > cup from the holes in the top vs. stale stuff in a bag. I'm kind of picky > about the air they breathe - if I notice the top of their aquarium gets too > misty, I'll open the flap because I know I wouldn't want to breathe that > air. > > Bettas, when in their cups, require 100% water changes - so yes, 1 ounce per > day *would* be 100% new water. I will probably keep them in their cups > until I can refill the tank and ensure the parameters are under control. I > estimate about a week for that, which would give me enough time to do the > water changes I mentioned. I'd love to do a whole fishless cycle but I > don't think that would be realistic. > If I did the water changes in the cups, it would go like this: > Day 1: 100% water change to 1 ounce well, 7 ounce old > Day 2: 100% water change to 2 ounce well, 6 ounce old > Day 3: 100% water change to 3 ounce well, 5 ounce old > Day 4: 100% water change to 4 ounce well, 4 ounce old > Day 5: 100% water change to 5 ounce well, 3 ounce old > Day 6: 100% water change to 6 ounce well, 2 ounce old > Day 7: 100% water change to 7 ounce well, 1 ounce old > Day 8: 100% water change to 8 ounce well > > However, I am considering Lenny's suggestion of the drip in a bucket > method. I just know the girls won't be happy about sharing a few cups on > water in a pail. They do fine in their planted tank, but I would never put > them in less than the full 10G together (which I know isn't a full 10G but > hell, its better than the 2-3G the drip method maxes out). So I'm debating > between a 4 bucket drip and the cup method I mentioned above. > > -Lana, who is still insulted that Ray of all people on this list couldn't be > bothered to read before being ridiculously rude. > > > > > On 5/17/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Aside from the fact that your proposed method of changing out 1 ounce > > of water per day (for 8 days) will not serve to exchange the old > > water for new completely (you'll still have 34.88% of the old water > > remaining) -- although close enough to introduce the fish to > > the "new" mixed water, are you saying that you normally keep your > > Bettas in 8 ounce cups??? If that's the case, why do you bother > > keeping Bettas at all if you can't give them the conditions in > > maintaining them with some quality of life? > > > > While we know that Bettas don't need much water to survive (they are > > shipped in 2 ounce plastic bags of water from the Far East), surely > > you can't enjoy very much of them besides seeing their physical > > appearance in very confined quarters, their eating and their > > occasionally coming up to the surface for additional oxygen. These > > tiny shipping bags, and even the small display globes the fish stores > > use for them, are only meant as temporary containers for these fish > > until they are sold. Most breeders in this country use at least 2 > > quart jars for their male stock, and that is only until they are sold. > > > > You would gain so much more from them (as would they) if you were to > > allow them the luxury of living in a more natural setting of a small > > aquarium where they could interact with their environment (substrate, > > plants, perhaps a few other small fish and/or snails) where you could > > further enjoy their behavior. If you don't have the additional room > > for one or two 2 1/2 gallon tanks, I would question your capabilities > > of being able to properly maintain these fish if I were you. > > > > BTW, if you plan on being in the hobby for any length of time, it > > would be more to your benefit to get some water testing kits, to > > enable you to know your water parameters at any given time, and > > afford you the convenience of having these facilities at hand. > > They're not very difficult to use. Ray > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27878	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

Rob, The particular tank I referred to with the 5% water change was a species tank. No plants were present, but a number of rockwork and flower pot caves were present. These particular fish in that tank are very sensitive to water changes and rapid changes in water quality., hence the small amount of water changed. I would vacuum as much of the substrate as I could without going over, or much over, the 5% limit (handily marked on the tank with a black marker). Next water change and I would continue with the substrate where I left off. It was a 15 or 20L gallon tank, as I recall. I believe it was Lenny who mentioned in an earlier post that it is not wise to clean all the substrate at once, so as not to disturb the nitrifying bacteria living in the substrate. While I cannot vouch for the validity of his argument, it makes sense on its face. On most normal tanks, and take my use of normal with a grain of salt, since it may vary with your use of the word in reference to an aquarium, a 10-20% water change should be sufficient. You mention a problem with nitrates, however, you do not give a measurement of what the nitrates are in your tank, nor do you inform us how long your tank has been in operation. Both are important bits of information in this case along with the readings you have for ammonia and nitrites. Values for nitrate and the others should also be known for your tap water. What you have for nitrates may not be, despite claims to the contrary, be cause for alarm. As with many things in the hobby, there is a lot of wiggle room here. There is much in the way of "rules" in the hobby that are based on faulty science, or no science at all. The further they get from the source and the more they are accepted as gospel, the harder it becomes to erase them from collective memory. Also, this hobby is great for copying, rather than researching, which you will note if you do enough reading of the published materials available. Some of these misconceptions have been around for longer than most of us have been alive. Ray Wetzel may be a better source for this, since his library collection is greater than mine. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob DeSanno Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 7:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? This is a GREAT thread because i'm new to this as well and had the same exact question as Shari. I've been doing a 40% water change on my 55g tank every week, via vacuuming the gravel, but it seems like i'm sucking out more water than contaminates. Either that, or my tank is noticeably nasty. Right now i'm trying to deal with a semi-high nitrate level that i'm having a hard time controlling and was hoping this thread would show me where I am going wrong with cleaning my tank. I guess what i'm curious to read is how everyone does small water changes and still have their levels as normal? Steve, how do you keep your gravel clean with a 5% water change? Is there some tricks you can suggest to help me out trying to keep mine clean? Are plants the key? On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > There are a lot of variables in there to consider when determining how > much water should be changed. When I was keeping and raising > _Julidochromis transcriptus_ they would get no more than a 5% water > change because any change in water parameters was tough on that fish. If > you have a tank at or over its limits for fish, a 50% change would not > be out of line. Same if you have "dirty" fish like goldfish or Oscars in > a tank or several smaller changes during the course of a week. Fry tanks > need many water changes during a week to allow for maximum growth and > cleanliness. > > A 10% change is a good number to aim at since it does not radically > change water parameters, and in a proper tank without too many fish (my > tanks may seem to be sparsely populated compared to others I have seen) > it is sufficient to remove enough nitrates, hormones and other DOCs to > maintain good water quality. > > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27879	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

I apologize I was not clear that my betta ladies are community gals. :) I did try to ask this moving question (with a lot more detail) last month and since I didn't get any answers at all, I kept it simple this time (apparently too simple). It is good to know that the air in bags will not get stale that quickly - do you know how many days a betta could be kept in a bag comfortably? We will have at least one overnight on the trip, if not two (depending on what time we leave). I think we're still not on the same page with the amount of water being changed in the cups. I don't do PWCs with the cups, I do complete water replacements. IMHO, there is too little water in the cups to be changing a mere 10% of the water daily. They get totally new water every evening when they are in their cups. -Lana On 5/18/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Lana, I regret that you were offended by my reply. It, of course, > was not intended to do so as I was only going with what I understood > from your message. Although you did memtion a 10 gallon tank, it did > not appear clear to me that you housed the Bettas in it, especially > since you mentioned "bettaS" (pleural). As such, with your not > expressly stating anywhere in that post that you kept Bettas in the > 10 gallon, coupled with the common knowledge that not more than one > Betta can be kept in one tank (unless they're females), I did not > understand it to read that you were keeping Bettas (pleural) in the > 10 gallon tank. If you have female Bettas, that was not clearly > stated (at all) either. > > Understanding your post as it was presented, I had no reason to > research the history of this thread. Since it seems now, from your > reaction, that these wwere not the facts, it appears as though this > was just a case of mis-communication resulting in a mis- > understanding. BTW, atmospheric oxygen sealed in fish bags will not > go "stale" anytime soon, so there was no cause for the "caution" > taken with using cups (with perforated lids) for the fish to > transport them. > > As for your numbers, with one ounce of water per day (for 8 days) to > replace the water in an 8 ounce cup, I'd just like to point out a > major factor which you are missing. With each succeeding 1 ounce > water change of the 8 ounce cup, as each day goes by, you will be > increasingly changing out (removing) more and more of the fresh water > that you've been adding the previous days as part of the exchanged > water. As I stated, the end result of your water changing method > will result in your still having a remainder of 34.88% of the old > water remaining in the cup, although I this figure is a result of > carrying water changes out for 9 days. For changing water for 8 days > it results in still having 43.06% of old water -- and it goes like > this: > > One ounce water change per day, of an 8 ounce cup, for 8 days = a 10% > by volume of the water being changed daily (old and/or new). > > First day -- Changing out 10% of the 100% of old water leaves 90% of > the old water remaining (now with 10% of new water). > > Second day -- Changing out 10% of the 90% of old water remaining > leaves 81% of the old water remaining (you've removed a portion of > the new water you've previously put in). > > Third day -- Changing out 10% of the 81% of old water remaining > leaves 72.9% of the old water remaining (you've removed a yet larger > portion of the new water previously added). > > Fourth day -- Changing out 10% of the 72.9% of the old water > remaining leaves 65.61% of the old water remaining (tou've removed an > even larger portion with this, of the new water previously added). > > Fifth day -- Changing out 10% of the 65.61% of the old water > remaining leaves 59.05% of the old water remaing (with even more new > water removed). > > Sixth day -- Changing out 10% of the 59.05% of the old water > remaining leaves 53.15% of the old water remaining. > > Seventh day -- Changing out 10% of the 53.15% of the old water now > remaining leaves 47.84% of the iold water remaining. > > Eighth day -- Changing out 10% of this 47.84% of the old water now > remaining leaves 43.06% of the old water still remaining (with a > greater portion of the new water being removed each time, as the > previous amount of it is increased each previous time). Ray > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27880	From: sullllly	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I vacuum the whole surface quickly and then go back and do about half to the > depth of the substrate. Are you doing 50% water changes? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of shari rivenburg > Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? > > > > I'm new to aquariums and I have a 54 gallon - my question is this - when > I do my vacuuming/PWC, I don't seem to have enough time to vacuum the > entire tank before the water level starts getting too low.... is it > standard to only vacuum one area at a time each time you do this? I have > a lot of plants in my tank so it's also hard to vacuum around the > plants. Am I using too much water pressure, resulting in too fast of a > water loss? Thanks for your comments and thoughts! > > Shari > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > With a 54 gal you should be able to vacuum all the gravel and have time to spare. I have 2 55gal tanks. How much water are you changing out? If you are changing out 15 gallons you should have time unless you have a very large siphon hose that is removing water to quickly or you are spending too much time vacuuming or getting too meticulous about getting every little thing. around the base of the plants you could try waving your hand to have the waste either break up and float into the filter or it will land in a place where you can get it with the gravel cleaner. If this doesnt work you can do half the tank one week and half the tank the next. too much water pressure if you are using a python. What I do is I wave my hand over the gravel in an attempt to have it float around the tank and into the filter. A check of the nitrate level would let you know if you have to vacuum more and or change more water. Hope that helps.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27881	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

Depends on what kind of fish you have and how many. With my Africans from Malawi (no plants, large fish load), I do a 50% weekly change which is sufficient to keep the nitrates at or under 20ppm. Since I have well water that matches my tank water exactly, I can change 90% if necessary to keep the nitrates down. My Tanganyika tank is planted so I have virtually no nitrates. The fishload is also small in this tank. But I still do a 50% weekly change. Try to determine where the contaminants are coming from. Are you feeding too much? Is your fishload too large? In addition to the fish mentioned (goldfish, Oscars) Pleco's are notorious for generating a large volume of waste per fish. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob DeSanno Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 7:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? This is a GREAT thread because i'm new to this as well and had the same exact question as Shari. I've been doing a 40% water change on my 55g tank every week, via vacuuming the gravel, but it seems like i'm sucking out more water than contaminates. Either that, or my tank is noticeably nasty. Right now i'm trying to deal with a semi-high nitrate level that i'm having a hard time controlling and was hoping this thread would show me where I am going wrong with cleaning my tank. I guess what i'm curious to read is how everyone does small water changes and still have their levels as normal? Steve, how do you keep your gravel clean with a 5% water change? Is there some tricks you can suggest to help me out trying to keep mine clean? Are plants the key? On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> com> wrote: > There are a lot of variables in there to consider when determining how > much water should be changed. When I was keeping and raising > _Julidochromis transcriptus_ they would get no more than a 5% water > change because any change in water parameters was tough on that fish. If > you have a tank at or over its limits for fish, a 50% change would not > be out of line. Same if you have "dirty" fish like goldfish or Oscars in > a tank or several smaller changes during the course of a week. Fry tanks > need many water changes during a week to allow for maximum growth and > cleanliness. > > A 10% change is a good number to aim at since it does not radically > change water parameters, and in a proper tank without too many fish (my > tanks may seem to be sparsely populated compared to others I have seen) > it is sufficient to remove enough nitrates, hormones and other DOCs to > maintain good water quality. > > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27882	From: waves02	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: question

I just have two tanks... small.. the house is going to be painted.. we will be away for five days. how do I protect my fish from fumes.. if I am not there? caroline thank you [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27883	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

Rob, As has been pointed out, the amount of a water change can vary, depending on a number of factors. Some of these factors (bioload, tank size, etc.) can be added to with the type of tank and its inhabitants . . . and also with the particular type (hard, soft, acid, base) of water you are maintaining. Rift lake Cichlids, coming from constant water parameter environments, do not particularly appreciate large changes of water although care should be taken that the waste compounds don't escalate. Softer water with less buffering capacity needs to have more attention addressed to it with the anticipation of larger and more frequent water changes. General maintenance should include a regimen of weekly water changes, the amount of which is to be determined by your varying factors. While most fish will appreciate or even demand larger water changes on this weekly schedule, the maintenance part of fishkeeping entails keeping the stocking ratio within reason for the size of the tank. While some hobbyists do only a 10% water change weekly, this may be all that is needed in maintaining their particular tank, possibly with a sparser stocking than normal. Noticing Lenny's water changes generally at 25%, this seems to be about the avsrage that most hobbyists change out in any given week, with up to 33% on some species which really enjoy it, and prosper as a result (even if its not seen by water tests to really "need" it). It would not seem as though your 40% weekly water changes are actually needed unless you are overstocked and/or you're overfeeeding. I don't know exactly what you mean by your tank being "noticeably nasty," nor do I know exactly what you mean by "a semi-high nitrate level." First, what are the rest of your water parameters (I may have missed them)?; second, what is you nitrate reading? Keep in mind, and depending on the type of kit you are using (strips, liquids, etc.), your test kit may be faulty and/or outdated as to its expiration date. Besides ensuring that your ammonia and nitrite levels are kept at or as close to zero as possible, your weekly water changes should be of sufficient capacity so as not to allow wide changes in pH, etc., and to ensure fairly constant water parameters continually. This will see to it that there is never any stress induced to your fish with your maintenance pprocedures, but instead be of the utmost benefit to them. I often do up to 90% water changes, when I feel it will benefit the fish the most, but only with a regular regimen of the same, as with a constant change of water of the same quality it is assured there is no shock. Most any river fish would do its best if there were a constant flow of fresh water flowing by them at all times, if at all possible, with many lake fish which experience larger inflows of fresh water and having large outflows of its lake water benefitting from it as well. I did see Lenny's post (#27867) indicating he clean's only a portion of the substrate at any one time. I subscribe to this same routine and have recommended the same in previous posts, although not recently. I feel its best in preserving your beneficial bacteria as found in your substrare if you clean only half of it each week, alternating sides each week, as you perform this part of your maintenance each week. Each side will then get cleaned on an average of twice a month. At least one of those times should be a deep cleaning. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Rob, > > The particular tank I referred to with the 5% water change was a species tank. No plants were present, but a number of rockwork and flower pot caves were present. These particular fish in that tank are very sensitive to water changes and rapid changes in water quality., hence the small amount of water changed. I would vacuum as much of the substrate as I could without going over, or much over, the 5% limit (handily marked on the tank with a black marker). Next water change and I would continue with the substrate where I left off. It was a 15 or 20L gallon tank, as I recall. > > I believe it was Lenny who mentioned in an earlier post that it is not wise to clean all the substrate at once, so as not to disturb the nitrifying bacteria living in the substrate. While I cannot vouch for the validity of his argument, it makes sense on its face. On most normal tanks, and take my use of normal with a grain of salt, since it may vary with your use of the word in reference to an aquarium, a 10-20% water change should be sufficient. > > You mention a problem with nitrates, however, you do not give a measurement of what the nitrates are in your tank, nor do you inform us how long your tank has been in operation. Both are important bits of information in this case along with the readings you have for ammonia and nitrites. Values for nitrate and the others should also be known for your tap water. What you have for nitrates may not be, despite claims to the contrary, be cause for alarm. As with many things in the hobby, there is a lot of wiggle room here. There is much in the way of "rules" in the hobby that are based on faulty science, or no science at all. The further they get from the source and the more they are accepted as gospel, the harder it becomes to erase them from collective memory. Also, this hobby is great for copying, rather than researching, which you will note if you do enough reading of the published materials available. Some of these misconceptions have been around for longer than most of us have been alive. Ray Wetzel may be a better source for this, since his library collection is greater than mine. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob DeSanno > Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 7:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? > > This is a GREAT thread because i'm new to this as well and had the same > exact question as Shari. I've been doing a 40% water change on my 55g tank > every week, via vacuuming the gravel, but it seems like i'm sucking out more > water than contaminates. Either that, or my tank is noticeably nasty. Right > now i'm trying to deal with a semi-high nitrate level that i'm having a hard > time controlling and was hoping this thread would show me where I am going > wrong with cleaning my tank. > > I guess what i'm curious to read is how everyone does small water changes > and still have their levels as normal? Steve, how do you keep your gravel > clean with a 5% water change? Is there some tricks you can suggest to help > me out trying to keep mine clean? Are plants the key? > > On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > There are a lot of variables in there to consider when determining how > > much water should be changed. When I was keeping and raising > > _Julidochromis transcriptus_ they would get no more than a 5% water > > change because any change in water parameters was tough on that fish. If > > you have a tank at or over its limits for fish, a 50% change would not > > be out of line. Same if you have "dirty" fish like goldfish or Oscars in > > a tank or several smaller changes during the course of a week. Fry tanks > > need many water changes during a week to allow for maximum growth and > > cleanliness. > > > > A 10% change is a good number to aim at since it does not radically > > change water parameters, and in a proper tank without too many fish (my > > tanks may seem to be sparsely populated compared to others I have seen) > > it is sufficient to remove enough nitrates, hormones and other DOCs to > > maintain good water quality. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27884	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

No need for any apologies -- this was just an unfortunate misunderstanding. I do regret also though, that I missed your post of the same, two weeks ago, but I've had problems with my PC recently too. There's nothing wrong with transporting your Bettas in covered cups; just not necessary. If the bags are large enough, the atmospheric oxygen should last many days. To ensure their safe travel, put one fish to a bag and use large bags (up to 6" x 15" if you like, if you have the room). Your LFS should be able to supply you with some; the larger the better for your peace of mind. As I mentioned before, Bettas are shipped in, in tiny bags with no more than 2 ounces of water, but with oxygen over the water as Steve stated. Quite often, these bags are nearly collapsed, having very little remaining oxygen left, yet they all survive. As for the part with the water changing, you did not mention doing totally new (100%) water changes every evening, or at least I did not see that anywhere. You were concerned about aclimating you fish to your new well water and stated your intentions of changing one ounce of water per day (for 8 days -- as they are 8 ounce cups). Your words -- "Would adding an ounce of well water (and removing an ounce of tap water I bring) be gradual enough? That way it would take 8 total water changes for them to reach 100%." Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > I apologize I was not clear that my betta ladies are community gals. :) I > did try to ask this moving question (with a lot more detail) last month and > since I didn't get any answers at all, I kept it simple this time > (apparently too simple). > > It is good to know that the air in bags will not get stale that quickly - do > you know how many days a betta could be kept in a bag comfortably? We will > have at least one overnight on the trip, if not two (depending on what time > we leave). > > I think we're still not on the same page with the amount of water being > changed in the cups. I don't do PWCs with the cups, I do complete water > replacements. IMHO, there is too little water in the cups to be changing a > mere 10% of the water daily. They get totally new water every evening when > they are in their cups. > > -Lana > > On 5/18/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Lana, I regret that you were offended by my reply. It, of course, > > was not intended to do so as I was only going with what I understood > > from your message. Although you did memtion a 10 gallon tank, it did > > not appear clear to me that you housed the Bettas in it, especially > > since you mentioned "bettaS" (pleural). As such, with your not > > expressly stating anywhere in that post that you kept Bettas in the > > 10 gallon, coupled with the common knowledge that not more than one > > Betta can be kept in one tank (unless they're females), I did not > > understand it to read that you were keeping Bettas (pleural) in the > > 10 gallon tank. If you have female Bettas, that was not clearly > > stated (at all) either. > > > > Understanding your post as it was presented, I had no reason to > > research the history of this thread. Since it seems now, from your > > reaction, that these were not the facts, it appears as though this > > was just a case of mis-communication resulting in a mis- > > understanding. BTW, atmospheric oxygen sealed in fish bags will not > > go "stale" anytime soon, so there was no cause for the "caution" > > taken with using cups (with perforated lids) for the fish to > > transport them. > > > > As for your numbers, with one ounce of water per day (for 8 days) to > > replace the water in an 8 ounce cup, I'd just like to point out a > > major factor which you are missing. With each succeeding 1 ounce > > water change of the 8 ounce cup, as each day goes by, you will be > > increasingly changing out (removing) more and more of the fresh water > > that you've been adding the previous days as part of the exchanged > > water. As I stated, the end result of your water changing method > > will result in your still having a remainder of 34.88% of the old > > water remaining in the cup, although I this figure is a result of > > carrying water changes out for 9 days. For changing water for 8 days > > it results in still having 43.06% of old water -- and it goes like > > this: > > > > One ounce water change per day, of an 8 ounce cup, for 8 days = a 10% > > by volume of the water being changed daily (old and/or new). > > > > First day -- Changing out 10% of the 100% of old water leaves 90% of > > the old water remaining (now with 10% of new water). > > > > Second day -- Changing out 10% of the 90% of old water remaining > > leaves 81% of the old water remaining (you've removed a portion of > > the new water you've previously put in). > > > > Third day -- Changing out 10% of the 81% of old water remaining > > leaves 72.9% of the old water remaining (you've removed a yet larger > > portion of the new water previously added). > > > > Fourth day -- Changing out 10% of the 72.9% of the old water > > remaining leaves 65.61% of the old water remaining (tou've removed an > > even larger portion with this, of the new water previously added). > > > > Fifth day -- Changing out 10% of the 65.61% of the old water > > remaining leaves 59.05% of the old water remaing (with even more new > > water removed). > > > > Sixth day -- Changing out 10% of the 59.05% of the old water > > remaining leaves 53.15% of the old water remaining. > > > > Seventh day -- Changing out 10% of the 53.15% of the old water now > > remaining leaves 47.84% of the iold water remaining. > > > > Eighth day -- Changing out 10% of this 47.84% of the old water now > > remaining leaves 43.06% of the old water still remaining (with a > > greater portion of the new water being removed each time, as the > > previous amount of it is increased each previous time). Ray > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27885	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: tank cleaning?

Rob, What are your test results on your tank before and after a 40%PWC? Saying "semi-high" does not give us sufficient information. What are your tap/source water baseline parameters? (Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH & KH - fill a 1G bucket. Test it. Wait 24 hours and test again. Wait another 24 hours and test again.) Having all of those numbers will give us better information to figure out what your situation may be. Are you doing filter maintenance with each PWC? See my blog for my article on "Filter Maintenance & Cleaning". (Link on the right side of my blog) Plants are a definite help to the ecology of an aquarium... of course it depends on your fish too as some fish are not plant friendly so tell us more about your tank, size, fish stocking and size/numbers, filter system, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob DeSanno Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 6:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tank cleaning? This is a GREAT thread because i'm new to this as well and had the same exact question as Shari. I've been doing a 40% water change on my 55g tank every week, via vacuuming the gravel, but it seems like i'm sucking out more water than contaminates. Either that, or my tank is noticeably nasty. Right now i'm trying to deal with a semi-high nitrate level that i'm having a hard time controlling and was hoping this thread would show me where I am going wrong with cleaning my tank. I guess what i'm curious to read is how everyone does small water changes and still have their levels as normal? Steve, how do you keep your gravel clean with a 5% water change? Is there some tricks you can suggest to help me out trying to keep mine clean? Are plants the key? On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: > There are a lot of variables in there to consider when determining how > much water should be changed. When I was keeping and raising > _Julidochromis transcriptus_ they would get no more than a 5% water > change because any change in water parameters was tough on that fish. If > you have a tank at or over its limits for fish, a 50% change would not > be out of line. Same if you have "dirty" fish like goldfish or Oscars in > a tank or several smaller changes during the course of a week. Fry tanks > need many water changes during a week to allow for maximum growth and > cleanliness. > > A 10% change is a good number to aim at since it does not radically > change water parameters, and in a proper tank without too many fish (my > tanks may seem to be sparsely populated compared to others I have seen) > it is sufficient to remove enough nitrates, hormones and other DOCs to > maintain good water quality. > > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1453 - Release Date: 5/18/2008 9:31 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27886	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: question

The paint fumes can/will harm/kill your fish. If you can't take the fish with you when you leave, will you be coming back to the house every day to check on them? There are steps you could take to protect the fish from the paint fumes but tell us more about your tanks. You said "small" but what size? What kind of filtration on each? Live plants? Air stones? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of waves02 Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] question I just have two tanks... small.. the house is going to be painted.. we will be away for five days. how do I protect my fish from fumes.. if I am not there? caroline thank you [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1453 - Release Date: 5/18/2008 9:31 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27887	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

> > As for the part with the water changing, you did not mention doing > totally new (100%) water changes every evening, or at least I did not > see that anywhere. Then you should read the posts you're replying to better. Last one had "Bettas, when in their cups, require 100% water changes" among several other mentions of it. You were concerned about aclimating you fish to > your new well water and stated your intentions of changing one ounce > of water per day (for 8 days -- as they are 8 ounce cups). Your > words -- "Would adding an ounce of well water (and removing an ounce > of tap water I bring) be gradual enough? That way it would take 8 > total water changes for them to reach 100%." Ray You didn't reply to that post, you replied to the one where I explained how that would work: "Day 1: 100% water change to 1 ounce well, 7 ounce old Day 2: 100% water change to 2 ounce well, 6 ounce old Day 3: 100% water change to 3 ounce well, 5 ounce old Day 4: 100% water change to 4 ounce well, 4 ounce old Day 5: 100% water change to 5 ounce well, 3 ounce old Day 6: 100% water change to 6 ounce well, 2 ounce old Day 7: 100% water change to 7 ounce well, 1 ounce old Day 8: 100% water change to 8 ounce well" I guess you read 100% as 10%? -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27888	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Lana, Despite all this back and forth, ,it is only a 10 gallon tank we are talking about, and the total water in that tank is probably somewhere between 8 and 9 gallons. A couple of 5 gallon buckets will hold your old water, and your fish as well during the move, then set up the tank and put the water and fish back in. Regular 10% water changes will eventually get your fish acclimated to the new water and problem is resolved. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 2:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water > > As for the part with the water changing, you did not mention doing > totally new (100%) water changes every evening, or at least I did not > see that anywhere. Then you should read the posts you're replying to better. Last one had "Bettas, when in their cups, require 100% water changes" among several other mentions of it. You were concerned about aclimating you fish to > your new well water and stated your intentions of changing one ounce > of water per day (for 8 days -- as they are 8 ounce cups). Your > words -- "Would adding an ounce of well water (and removing an ounce > of tap water I bring) be gradual enough? That way it would take 8 > total water changes for them to reach 100%." Ray You didn't reply to that post, you replied to the one where I explained how that would work: "Day 1: 100% water change to 1 ounce well, 7 ounce old Day 2: 100% water change to 2 ounce well, 6 ounce old Day 3: 100% water change to 3 ounce well, 5 ounce old Day 4: 100% water change to 4 ounce well, 4 ounce old Day 5: 100% water change to 5 ounce well, 3 ounce old Day 6: 100% water change to 6 ounce well, 2 ounce old Day 7: 100% water change to 7 ounce well, 1 ounce old Day 8: 100% water change to 8 ounce well" I guess you read 100% as 10%? -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27889	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Lana, I think I was confused too, I was thinking that the "old" was used tank water. Did you mean fresh water from the old house? Also, I'm still confused overall. I get that you want to move them in cups.that's one day or less of traveling, right? But why can't you take 10G of water from the old house, put them in their 10G tank immediately with the "old house" water, and then do the small daily water changes in the 10G to acclimate? Also, how do you know you CAN acclimate them to the new tap water? What if it isn't suitable for bettas at all? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 2:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water > > As for the part with the water changing, you did not mention doing > totally new (100%) water changes every evening, or at least I did not > see that anywhere. Then you should read the posts you're replying to better. Last one had "Bettas, when in their cups, require 100% water changes" among several other mentions of it. You were concerned about aclimating you fish to > your new well water and stated your intentions of changing one ounce > of water per day (for 8 days -- as they are 8 ounce cups). Your > words -- "Would adding an ounce of well water (and removing an ounce > of tap water I bring) be gradual enough? That way it would take 8 > total water changes for them to reach 100%." Ray You didn't reply to that post, you replied to the one where I explained how that would work: "Day 1: 100% water change to 1 ounce well, 7 ounce old Day 2: 100% water change to 2 ounce well, 6 ounce old Day 3: 100% water change to 3 ounce well, 5 ounce old Day 4: 100% water change to 4 ounce well, 4 ounce old Day 5: 100% water change to 5 ounce well, 3 ounce old Day 6: 100% water change to 6 ounce well, 2 ounce old Day 7: 100% water change to 7 ounce well, 1 ounce old Day 8: 100% water change to 8 ounce well" I guess you read 100% as 10%? -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27890	From: mathhaven	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Ray - Your concept works, but your numbers are off. One ounce out of eight is a 12.5% change, not 10%. I read the later posts and know that this is irrelevant, but I'm a math teacher, so I thought I should say something... - Chris --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Lana, I regret that you were offended by my reply. It, of course, > was not intended to do so as I was only going with what I understood > from your message. Although you did memtion a 10 gallon tank, it did > not appear clear to me that you housed the Bettas in it, especially > since you mentioned "bettaS" (pleural). As such, with your not > expressly stating anywhere in that post that you kept Bettas in the > 10 gallon, coupled with the common knowledge that not more than one > Betta can be kept in one tank (unless they're females), I did not > understand it to read that you were keeping Bettas (pleural) in the > 10 gallon tank. If you have female Bettas, that was not clearly > stated (at all) either. > > Understanding your post as it was presented, I had no reason to > research the history of this thread. Since it seems now, from your > reaction, that these wwere not the facts, it appears as though this > was just a case of mis-communication resulting in a mis- > understanding. BTW, atmospheric oxygen sealed in fish bags will not > go "stale" anytime soon, so there was no cause for the "caution" > taken with using cups (with perforated lids) for the fish to > transport them. > > As for your numbers, with one ounce of water per day (for 8 days) to > replace the water in an 8 ounce cup, I'd just like to point out a > major factor which you are missing. With each succeeding 1 ounce > water change of the 8 ounce cup, as each day goes by, you will be > increasingly changing out (removing) more and more of the fresh water > that you've been adding the previous days as part of the exchanged > water. As I stated, the end result of your water changing method > will result in your still having a remainder of 34.88% of the old > water remaining in the cup, although I this figure is a result of > carrying water changes out for 9 days. For changing water for 8 days > it results in still having 43.06% of old water -- and it goes like > this: > > One ounce water change per day, of an 8 ounce cup, for 8 days = a 10% > by volume of the water being changed daily (old and/or new). > > First day -- Changing out 10% of the 100% of old water leaves 90% of > the old water remaining (now with 10% of new water). > > Second day -- Changing out 10% of the 90% of old water remaining > leaves 81% of the old water remaining (you've removed a portion of > the new water you've previously put in). > > Third day -- Changing out 10% of the 81% of old water remaining > leaves 72.9% of the old water remaining (you've removed a yet larger > portion of the new water previously added). > > Fourth day -- Changing out 10% of the 72.9% of the old water > remaining leaves 65.61% of the old water remaining (tou've removed an > even larger portion with this, of the new water previously added). > > Fifth day -- Changing out 10% of the 65.61% of the old water > remaining leaves 59.05% of the old water remaing (with even more new > water removed). > > Sixth day -- Changing out 10% of the 59.05% of the old water > remaining leaves 53.15% of the old water remaining. > > Seventh day -- Changing out 10% of the 53.15% of the old water now > remaining leaves 47.84% of the iold water remaining. > > Eighth day -- Changing out 10% of this 47.84% of the old water now > remaining leaves 43.06% of the old water still remaining (with a > greater portion of the new water being removed each time, as the > previous amount of it is increased each previous time). Ray > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27891	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: My Angel is ill

Okey, I think it won't be easy to describe the illness using my poor English! I'll try my best though. Only ONE of my angel fish's eyes is a bit out of place ( the fish is 2" ), and there's a tiny red spot on the eye itself, the other eye looks fine. the base of her fins is lined in red. And her gills are swollen, normally colored. She's breathing normally, and her eyes and body are otherwise clean. All the other fish, including the other AngelFish look fine. What could have caused this? is it a parasite, or bacteria? Any advise? Best Regards, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27892	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

I'm just trying to make a point. I'm sick of asking a question only to have someone not read before replying. People are more than capable of reading and asking for clarification when it is needed - if not they shouldn't be bothering to reply as it is as much a waste of their time as mine to go on and on about something that isn't pertinent to the current situation. I am moving almost 600 miles. I have other things that need to go in my car (such as a dozen houseplants, the tank, my clothing, my dog, etc) that will be taking up quite a bit of room. Even two 5 gallon buckets would take up a considerable part of my sub-compact - I can fit a few gallon jugs in the nooks and crannies, but not enough to take the whole tank's worth of water. If I happened to already own a few 5 gallon buckets, I'd send them with the movers - but as I don't and I don't have any spare money to get them, that isn't going to work. The lack of the buckets is one of the main reasons why Lenny's drip method, although ideal, may not work for me either. That's why I'm still thinking about acclimating them while in the cups. -Lana On 5/18/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > Lana, > > Despite all this back and forth, ,it is only a 10 gallon tank we are > talking about, and the total water in that tank is probably somewhere > between 8 and 9 gallons. A couple of 5 gallon buckets will hold your old > water, and your fish as well during the move, then set up the tank and put > the water and fish back in. Regular 10% water changes will eventually get > your fish acclimated to the new water and problem is resolved. > > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27893	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

I think the rest of your questions were answered in my most recent email. I hadn't even thought of the chance that they couldn't acclimate to the new water. That would make me very, very sad. I guess in that case I'd see if my Mom had any of her emergency bottled water stash left and talk her into buying a new stash so I could use the bottled stuff for my girls. If she didn't... well... sheesh... if my food stamps transfer fast enough I guess I could buy them some of the spring water I used to use when I had just Dottie in her 0.5 gallon bowl. I really hope I can use my Mom's well water. It sucks enough having to move back home after being independent for 6 years... I'd be crushed if I had to part with my little tribe of betta girls. Despite everything that has gone horribly wrong in the last 4 months, the idea of losing my girls is the only thing so far that has brought tears to my eyes. -Lana Also, how do you know you CAN acclimate them to the new tap water? What if > it isn't suitable for bettas at all? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27894	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Chris, I knew there was something bothering me from the back of my mind, like my unconcious self trying to tell me something. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. It should have read that there is still approximately 30.74% of the old water left after making a one ounce (12.5%) water change (of an 8 ounce cup) once every day for 8 days. Now, I would most appreciate it if you could explain this to Lana, who doesn't appear to grasp the concept; thank you again. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mathhaven" <mathhaven@...> wrote: > > Ray - > Your concept works, but your numbers are off. One ounce out of eight is a 12.5% change, > not 10%. I read the later posts and know that this is irrelevant, but I'm a math teacher, so I > thought I should say something... > - Chris > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Lana, I regret that you were offended by my reply. It, of course, > > was not intended to do so as I was only going with what I understood > > from your message. Although you did memtion a 10 gallon tank, it did > > not appear clear to me that you housed the Bettas in it, especially > > since you mentioned "bettaS" (pleural). As such, with your not > > expressly stating anywhere in that post that you kept Bettas in the > > 10 gallon, coupled with the common knowledge that not more than one > > Betta can be kept in one tank (unless they're females), I did not > > understand it to read that you were keeping Bettas (pleural) in the > > 10 gallon tank. If you have female Bettas, that was not clearly > > stated (at all) either. > > > > Understanding your post as it was presented, I had no reason to > > research the history of this thread. Since it seems now, from your > > reaction, that these wwere not the facts, it appears as though this > > was just a case of mis-communication resulting in a mis- > > understanding. BTW, atmospheric oxygen sealed in fish bags will not > > go "stale" anytime soon, so there was no cause for the "caution" > > taken with using cups (with perforated lids) for the fish to > > transport them. > > > > As for your numbers, with one ounce of water per day (for 8 days) to > > replace the water in an 8 ounce cup, I'd just like to point out a > > major factor which you are missing. With each succeeding 1 ounce > > water change of the 8 ounce cup, as each day goes by, you will be > > increasingly changing out (removing) more and more of the fresh water > > that you've been adding the previous days as part of the exchanged > > water. As I stated, the end result of your water changing method > > will result in your still having a remainder of 34.88% of the old > > water remaining in the cup, although I this figure is a result of > > carrying water changes out for 9 days. For changing water for 8 days > > it results in still having 43.06% of old water -- and it goes like > > this: > > > > One ounce water change per day, of an 8 ounce cup, for 8 days = a 10% > > by volume of the water being changed daily (old and/or new). > > > > First day -- Changing out 10% of the 100% of old water leaves 90% of > > the old water remaining (now with 10% of new water). > > > > Second day -- Changing out 10% of the 90% of old water remaining > > leaves 81% of the old water remaining (you've removed a portion of > > the new water you've previously put in). > > > > Third day -- Changing out 10% of the 81% of old water remaining > > leaves 72.9% of the old water remaining (you've removed a yet larger > > portion of the new water previously added). > > > > Fourth day -- Changing out 10% of the 72.9% of the old water > > remaining leaves 65.61% of the old water remaining (tou've removed an > > even larger portion with this, of the new water previously added). > > > > Fifth day -- Changing out 10% of the 65.61% of the old water > > remaining leaves 59.05% of the old water remaing (with even more new > > water removed). > > > > Sixth day -- Changing out 10% of the 59.05% of the old water > > remaining leaves 53.15% of the old water remaining. > > > > Seventh day -- Changing out 10% of the 53.15% of the old water now > > remaining leaves 47.84% of the iold water remaining. > > > > Eighth day -- Changing out 10% of this 47.84% of the old water now > > remaining leaves 43.06% of the old water still remaining (with a > > greater portion of the new water being removed each time, as the > > previous amount of it is increased each previous time). Ray > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27895	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

I replied to your message # 27854 (May 16, 2008 @ 11:16 PM). NO WHERE IN THIS MESSAGE OF YOURS DO YOU SAY THAT BETTAS REQUIRE 100% WATER CHANGES EVERY EVENING. You do say that it will take 8 (one-ounce) water changes to do a 100% water change; that is the only reference you make of "100%." Oh, but I did rfeply to THAT post. No, I DID NOT READ 100% as 10%. Actually, it should have read 12.5% -- as per Chris' correction. This would leave you with 30.74% of the old water, when you change out one ounce of water (from an 8 ounce cup) each day for 8 days, as you stated to Lenny you were about to do. By this reply, it appears that you do not follow what is going on when yoiu make these small water changes. You will not have 100% new water after 8 days of changing out one ounce per day. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > > > > As for the part with the water changing, you did not mention doing > > totally new (100%) water changes every evening, or at least I did not > > see that anywhere. > > > Then you should read the posts you're replying to better. Last one had > "Bettas, when in their cups, require 100% water changes" among several other > mentions of it. > > > You were concerned about aclimating you fish to > > your new well water and stated your intentions of changing one ounce > > of water per day (for 8 days -- as they are 8 ounce cups). Your > > words -- "Would adding an ounce of well water (and removing an ounce > > of tap water I bring) be gradual enough? That way it would take 8 > > total water changes for them to reach 100%." Ray > > > > You didn't reply to that post, you replied to the one where I explained how > that would work: > "Day 1: 100% water change to 1 ounce well, 7 ounce old > Day 2: 100% water change to 2 ounce well, 6 ounce old > Day 3: 100% water change to 3 ounce well, 5 ounce old > Day 4: 100% water change to 4 ounce well, 4 ounce old > Day 5: 100% water change to 5 ounce well, 3 ounce old > Day 6: 100% water change to 6 ounce well, 2 ounce old > Day 7: 100% water change to 7 ounce well, 1 ounce old > Day 8: 100% water change to 8 ounce well" > > I guess you read 100% as 10%? > > -Lana > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27896	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Lana, Here is the message of yours that I replied to. I suggest your re-reading it to refresh your memory. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > Oh Lenny, I have no idea! I'm one of those newbies that just brings my > water into the pet store to get it tested. LOL! To make it even more > difficult, I don't have access to the new water yet. > > I do plan on bringing several gallons of old water with me. Do you suppose > I could get away with bringing a sample of both the well water and the tap > water to the pet store when I get there? Would they be able to tell me the > big differences? > > The bettas will be traveling in their cups. I can't bring enough water to > do a gradual change in the 10G tank, so I guess I'll be doing it in the > individual cups. Would adding an ounce of well water (and removing an ounce > of the tap water I bring) be gradual enough? That way it would take 8 total > water changes for them to reach 100% well water. > > I usually get my water tested when I go to the pet store, which is every few > weeks. Although, it may be less often when I get there as the store isn't > as local. When you say several times a year, do you mean more towards once > a month? or can I get away with once every 2 months? > > Thanks!!! > > -Lana > > On 5/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Slowly acclimate your fish to the new water. > > > > What are your current baseline test results, out the tap, at 24 hours and > > 48 > > hours... and what is the new water's baseline test results? > > > > Some wells will have high CO2 levels resulting in low pH test results but > > then the CO2 outgases and the pH will rise. Other wells have high levels > > of > > nitrates or phosphates. > > > > You should get your new water tested several times a year so you will know > > how it changes seasonally as that can affect the water depending on the > > depth of the well and the source of the well water. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27897	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Oh, I understand the concept just fine and you would be perfectly correct IF I WASN'T DOING 100% water changes. You know, when you get rid of ALL of the water that was in the cup/bowl/tank and replace it with new water? The problem is you're hung up on the idea I'm doing PWCs, which I am not doing and I will not be subjecting my bettas to poor quality water just because you've never heard that small tanks/bowls/cups need 100% new water when the water is changed. -Lana On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > Chris, I knew there was something bothering me from the back of my > mind, like my unconcious self trying to tell me something. Thank you > for bringing that to my attention. It should have read that there is > still approximately 30.74% of the old water left after making a one > ounce (12.5%) water change (of an 8 ounce cup) once every day for 8 > days. Now, I would most appreciate it if you could explain this to > Lana, who doesn't appear to grasp the concept; thank you again. Ray > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27898	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

I re-read the whole thread and it looks like I didn't address your first question as well as I had thought. On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > Lana, I think I was confused too, I was thinking that the "old" was used > tank water. Did you mean fresh water from the old house? Yes, I mean the tap water from the old house. I had thought this would be clear seeing as I was stating I was doing a 100% water change, but apparently some people think a 100% water change would for some reason keep a portion of the water the fish was in (which is a PWC or partial water change). -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27899	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

And here is my reply -- with YOUR EXACT SAME MESSAGE UNDERNEATH IT!!!!! RAY --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Aside from the fact that your proposed method of changing out 1 ounce > of water per day (for 8 days) will not serve to exchange the old > water for new completely (you'll still have 34.88% of the old water > remaining) -- although close enough to introduce the fish to > the "new" mixed water, are you saying that you normally keep your > Bettas in 8 ounce cups??? If that's the case, why do you bother > keeping Bettas at all if you can't give them the conditions in > maintaining them with some quality of life? > > While we know that Bettas don't need much water to survive (they are > shipped in 2 ounce plastic bags of water from the Far East), surely > you can't enjoy very much of them besides seeing their physical > appearance in very confined quarters, their eating and their > occasionally coming up to the surface for additional oxygen. These > tiny shipping bags, and even the small display globes the fish stores > use for them, are only meant as temporary containers for these fish > until they are sold. Most breeders in this country use at least 2 > quart jars for their male stock, and that is only until they are sold. > > You would gain so much more from them (as would they) if you were to > allow them the luxury of living in a more natural setting of a small > aquarium where they could interact with their environment (substrate, > plants, perhaps a few other small fish and/or snails) where you could > further enjoy their behavior. If you don't have the additional room > for one or two 2 1/2 gallon tanks, I would question your capabilities > of being able to properly maintain these fish if I were you. > > BTW, if you plan on being in the hobby for any length of time, it > would be more to your benefit to get some water testing kits, to > enable you to know your water parameters at any given time, and > afford you the convenience of having these facilities at hand. > They're not very difficult to use. Ray > > > > > > Oh Lenny, I have no idea! I'm one of those newbies that just > brings my > > water into the pet store to get it tested. LOL! To make it even > more > > difficult, I don't have access to the new water yet. > > > > I do plan on bringing several gallons of old water with me. Do you > suppose > > I could get away with bringing a sample of both the well water and > the tap > > water to the pet store when I get there? Would they be able to > tell me the > > big differences? > > > > The bettas will be traveling in their cups. I can't bring enough > water to > > do a gradual change in the 10G tank, so I guess I'll be doing it in > the > > individual cups. Would adding an ounce of well water (and removing > an ounce > > of the tap water I bring) be gradual enough? That way it would > take 8 total > > water changes for them to reach 100% well water. > > > > I usually get my water tested when I go to the pet store, which is > every few > > weeks. Although, it may be less often when I get there as the > store isn't > > as local. When you say several times a year, do you mean more > towards once > > a month? or can I get away with once every 2 months? > > > > Thanks!!! > > > > -Lana > > > > On 5/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Slowly acclimate your fish to the new water. > > > > > > What are your current baseline test results, out the tap, at 24 > hours and > > > 48 > > > hours... and what is the new water's baseline test results? > > > > > > Some wells will have high CO2 levels resulting in low pH test > results but > > > then the CO2 outgases and the pH will rise. Other wells have > high levels > > > of > > > nitrates or phosphates. > > > > > > You should get your new water tested several times a year so you > will know > > > how it changes seasonally as that can affect the water depending > on the > > > depth of the well and the source of the well water. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27900	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Chris, I am relieved to see that my point is getting across to someone. LOL! -Lana On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 2:26 PM, mathhaven <mathhaven@...> wrote: > Ray - > Your concept works, but your numbers are off. One ounce out of eight is a > 12.5% change, > not 10%. I read the later posts and know that this is irrelevant, but I'm > a math teacher, so I > thought I should say something... > - Chris > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27901	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

I have since clarified this several times over, including a full explanation of what I meant by the original statement. You do realize that email threads evolve, right? You can't keep going back to the first message in the thread and insisting that you're right when further explanations have come to light. I'm gonna walk you through this one more time and then I'm giving up. I said "Day 1: 100% water change to 1 ounce well, 7 ounce old" and what that means is I will prep a new betta cup by adding 1 ounce well water and 7 ounces water that traveled from old house. I will move the betta to new cup and dump the old cup out. 100% of the water has been changed (as opposed to your example of 12.5%). Next day, I'll prep another new cup with 2 ounces well water and 6 ounces water that traveled from old house and move her to that cup. Dump yesterday's cup of 1/7. And so on. As you can (hopefully) see, I am not "changing" one ounce of water. I am incrementing the amount of well water used in the full and complete water change by one ounce each time. Under no circumstances would I ever find it acceptable to keep any of the water from an 8 ounce cup at a water change. NOW do you see the difference? I'm not saying you're wrong (you're right about the water changes on a 12.5% change), it is just the 12.5% *does not pertain to me* as I'm switching 100% of the water. Got it now? If so, I expect an apology for your ridiculously rude attitude. If not, don't even bother replying because it'll only lessen my already low opinion of your ability to read. -Lana On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > Lana, Here is the message of yours that I replied to. I suggest > your re-reading it to refresh your memory. Ray > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27902	From: Debra	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Ray and Lana please STOP! Betta are very hardy fish and they don't know a thing about algebra or PWC's. These particular fish are going to be just fine because their caretaker is going to carefully acclamate them to their new water source. I have to say this has gone on far too long - for some reason I understood what Lana was explaining even though I'm not the smartest fishkeeper on the forum. It was probably the term "old water" i.e. From the soon to be "old house" that made the post confusing. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 22:19:17 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water And here is my reply -- with YOUR EXACT SAME MESSAGE UNDERNEATH IT!!!!! RAY --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Aside from the fact that your proposed method of changing out 1 ounce > of water per day (for 8 days) will not serve to exchange the old > water for new completely (you'll still have 34.88% of the old water > remaining) -- although close enough to introduce the fish to > the "new" mixed water, are you saying that you normally keep your > Bettas in 8 ounce cups??? If that's the case, why do you bother > keeping Bettas at all if you can't give them the conditions in > maintaining them with some quality of life? > > While we know that Bettas don't need much water to survive (they are > shipped in 2 ounce plastic bags of water from the Far East), surely > you can't enjoy very much of them besides seeing their physical > appearance in very confined quarters, their eating and their > occasionally coming up to the surface for additional oxygen. These > tiny shipping bags, and even the small display globes the fish stores > use for them, are only meant as temporary containers for these fish > until they are sold. Most breeders in this country use at least 2 > quart jars for their male stock, and that is only until they are sold. > > You would gain so much more from them (as would they) if you were to > allow them the luxury of living in a more natural setting of a small > aquarium where they could interact with their environment (substrate, > plants, perhaps a few other small fish and/or snails) where you could > further enjoy their behavior. If you don't have the additional room > for one or two 2 1/2 gallon tanks, I would question your capabilities > of being able to properly maintain these fish if I were you. > > BTW, if you plan on being in the hobby for any length of time, it > would be more to your benefit to get some water testing kits, to > enable you to know your water parameters at any given time, and > afford you the convenience of having these facilities at hand. > They're not very difficult to use. Ray > > > > > > Oh Lenny, I have no idea! I'm one of those newbies that just > brings my > > water into the pet store to get it tested. LOL! To make it even > more > > difficult, I don't have access to the new water yet. > > > > I do plan on bringing several gallons of old water with me. Do you > suppose > > I could get away with bringing a sample of both the well water and > the tap > > water to the pet store when I get there? Would they be able to > tell me the > > big differences? > > > > The bettas will be traveling in their cups. I can't bring enough > water to > > do a gradual change in the 10G tank, so I guess I'll be doing it in > the > > individual cups. Would adding an ounce of well water (and removing > an ounce > > of the tap water I bring) be gradual enough? That way it would > take 8 total > > water changes for them to reach 100% well water. > > > > I usually get my water tested when I go to the pet store, which is > every few > > weeks. Although, it may be less often when I get there as the > store isn't > > as local. When you say several times a year, do you mean more > towards once > > a month? or can I get away with once every 2 months? > > > > Thanks!!! > > > > -Lana > > > > On 5/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Slowly acclimate your fish to the new water. > > > > > > What are your current baseline test results, out the tap, at 24 > hours and > > > 48 > > > hours... and what is the new water's baseline test results? > > > > > > Some wells will have high CO2 levels resulting in low pH test > results but > > > then the CO2 outgases and the pH will rise. Other wells have > high levels > > > of > > > nitrates or phosphates. > > > > > > You should get your new water tested several times a year so you > will know > > > how it changes seasonally as that can affect the water depending > on the > > > depth of the well and the source of the well water. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27903	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Alright, I'm at least glad to see you understand the concept. I am including here, that portion of your message #27854 which indicated to me that you were contemplating doing PWC's -- "Would adding an ounce of well water (and removing an ounce of tap water I bring) be gradual enough? That way it would take 8 total water changes for them to reach 100% well water." If, by your exchanging 1 ounce of well and tap water from the 8 ounce cup isn't considered a partial water change, I'd like to know what else you meant by that. And why do you think it would take 8 total water changes for them to reach 100% well water? If you think I'm "hung up" on the PWC idea, this is where I got it from. BTW, I never said that small tanks/bowls/cups do not need 100% new water when the water is changed, but then, if you're not going to put them back into their 10 gallon aquarium once its set back up again, until its cycled, you should at least consider putting them in 1/2 gallon jars for easier maintenance. If you are going to put the fish in the 10 gallon tank as soon as its set up again (with well water), there no need to even consider water changes in the cups. Changing out 100% of any fishes water in any container at any time should never be done except in extreme situations where absolutely necessary as a last recourse. If found to be needed (by testing), if an 8 ounce cup is found to be needing water changes, its best to do several smaller (30%, 40% 50% . . . ) water changes up to the point that its needed (it may only need 20%, or maybe 60%), more often, than doing 100% water changes. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > Oh, I understand the concept just fine and you would be perfectly correct IF > I WASN'T DOING 100% water changes. You know, when you get rid of ALL of the > water that was in the cup/bowl/tank and replace it with new water? > > The problem is you're hung up on the idea I'm doing PWCs, which I am not > doing and I will not be subjecting my bettas to poor quality water just > because you've never heard that small tanks/bowls/cups need 100% new water > when the water is changed. > > -Lana > > On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > wrote: > > > Chris, I knew there was something bothering me from the back of my > > mind, like my unconcious self trying to tell me something. Thank you > > for bringing that to my attention. It should have read that there is > > still approximately 30.74% of the old water left after making a one > > ounce (12.5%) water change (of an 8 ounce cup) once every day for 8 > > days. Now, I would most appreciate it if you could explain this to > > Lana, who doesn't appear to grasp the concept; thank you again. Ray > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27904	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

While it now seems as though our messages/replies are crossing each other in cyberspace, I do not wish to persue this thread any longer. The dead horse has been beaten enough. I would only like to add that your 1 ounce of well water and 7 ounces of old (tap) water -- and your 2 ounces of well water and 6 ounces of old water ARE NOT considered 100% water changes as far as the water parameters thebfish are living in (and I'm glad to see you're not doing 100% water changes). I understand now that you're planning to use 2 ounces of 100% fresh well water AND 8 ounces of 100% FRESH tap water as being considered as a 100% water change if I follow you correctly. These are considered as partial water changes as far as their different water parameters go even if both the well water and the tap water are new from their sources. You are slowly acclimating the fish from your old tap water conditions to your well water, and a wise way to do it, I might add. A 100% water change in this situation would be considered as such only if the fish were given 100% well water (a complete change in the water that they're presently living in) and as far as my ability to read, perhaps you need to learn more about aquarium terminology so that people can better understand what you're trying to get across. I see I'm not the only one confused here, although I believe I now understand, after much difficulty in deciphering your meaning, the actual jist of your statements. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > I have since clarified this several times over, including a full explanation > of what I meant by the original statement. You do realize that email > threads evolve, right? You can't keep going back to the first message in > the thread and insisting that you're right when further explanations have > come to light. I'm gonna walk you through this one more time and then I'm > giving up. > > I said "Day 1: 100% water change to 1 ounce well, 7 ounce old" and what that > means is I will prep a new betta cup by adding 1 ounce well water and 7 > ounces water that traveled from old house. I will move the betta to new cup > and dump the old cup out. 100% of the water has been changed (as opposed to > your example of 12.5%). > > Next day, I'll prep another new cup with 2 ounces well water and 6 ounces > water that traveled from old house and move her to that cup. Dump > yesterday's cup of 1/7. And so on. > > As you can (hopefully) see, I am not "changing" one ounce of water. I am > incrementing the amount of well water used in the full and complete water > change by one ounce each time. Under no circumstances would I ever find it > acceptable to keep any of the water from an 8 ounce cup at a water change. > > NOW do you see the difference? I'm not saying you're wrong (you're right > about the water changes on a 12.5% change), it is just the 12.5% *does not > pertain to me* as I'm switching 100% of the water. > > Got it now? If so, I expect an apology for your ridiculously rude > attitude. If not, don't even bother replying because it'll only lessen my > already low opinion of your ability to read. > > -Lana > > On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > wrote: > > > Lana, Here is the message of yours that I replied to. I suggest > > your re-reading it to refresh your memory. Ray > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27905	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

> > If, by your exchanging 1 ounce of well and tap water from the 8 ounce > cup isn't considered a partial water change, I'd like to know what > else you meant by that. And why do you think it would take 8 total > water changes for them to reach 100% well water? If you think > I'm "hung up" on the PWC idea, this is where I got it from. I understand how this could be confusing, which is why I clarified with the written out version in the first place. The fact is one can not remove one ounce of tap water from mixed water, it is simply impossible :) so it would have to be done as a 100% water change. I didn't specify "partial" or "100%" there though, so that is why I made the later clarification. With the method listed in my last post, it would only take 8 complete changes (1/7, 2/6, 3/5, 4/4, 5/3, 6/2, 7/1, 8). > BTW, I > never said that small tanks/bowls/cups do not need 100% new water > when the water is changed, but then, if you're not going to put them > back into their 10 gallon aquarium once its set back up again, until > its cycled, you should at least consider putting them in 1/2 gallon > jars for easier maintenance. As I said in a prior post, I don't think it is realistic to wait long enough for the water to fully cycle. I don't have additional containers outside of the cups and the single 1/2 gallon bowl I use for the hospital tank. > If you are going to put the fish in the > 10 gallon tank as soon as its set up again (with well water), there > no need to even consider water changes in the cups. Really??? Wouldn't they be shocked with the sudden change from my old tap water to the well water? Changing out > 100% of any fishes water in any container at any time should never be > done except in extreme situations where absolutely necessary as a > last recourse. If found to be needed (by testing), if an 8 ounce cup > is found to be needing water changes, its best to do several smaller > (30%, 40% 50% . . . ) water changes up to the point that its needed > (it may only need 20%, or maybe 60%), more often, than doing 100% > water changes. > Really? This is totally contradictory to everything I have read about 1/2 gallon and less containers. I do a full water change on my hospital bowl when there's someone in it too. -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27906	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

So why is a normal PWC referred to as a x% PWC if you're using water from the same source as the initial water? For example, my normal 10% PWC consists of me removing 10% of my aquarium's water and replacing it with my current (treated) tap water. That leaves me 90% of the poopy water (is there an official word for the aged tank water?) For my hospital bowl, I put 100% (treated) tap water in after emptying it of 100% of its poopy/aged water. This AFAIK is a 100% water change. I understand that the parameters in the tank change as the tank ages, so it isn't the same as the water I put in there when I started. What I don't understand is why the standard terminology gets totally redefined just because I'm dealing with two different water sources that I am mixing. I mean, outside of moving, when does anyone ever do that? -Lana On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > While it now seems as though our messages/replies are crossing each > other in cyberspace, I do not wish to persue this thread any longer. > The dead horse has been beaten enough. I would only like to add that > your 1 ounce of well water and 7 ounces of old (tap) water -- and > your 2 ounces of well water and 6 ounces of old water ARE NOT > considered 100% water changes as far as the water parameters thebfish > are living in (and I'm glad to see you're not doing 100% water > changes). I understand now that you're planning to use 2 ounces of > 100% fresh well water AND 8 ounces of 100% FRESH tap water as being > considered as a 100% water change if I follow you correctly. These > are considered as partial water changes as far as their different > water parameters go even if both the well water and the tap water are > new from their sources. You are slowly acclimating the fish from > your old tap water conditions to your well water, and a wise way to > do it, I might add. A 100% water change in this situation would be > considered as such only if the fish were given 100% well water (a > complete change in the water that they're presently living in) and as > far as my ability to read, perhaps you need to learn more about > aquarium terminology so that people can better understand what you're > trying to get across. I see I'm not the only one confused here, > although I believe I now understand, after much difficulty in > deciphering your meaning, the actual jist of your statements. Ray > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27907	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill

Noura, This is a situation where knowing the readings of your water parameters would be especially meaningful as, most often when red (blood) shows at the base of the fins and in the eyes, a condition known as septicemia (viral or bacterial/aeromonas) has set in due to high ammonia and'or nitrite levels. Effectively, the fish have ammonia poisoning in such cases. If your water is found to be high in ammonia and/or nitrite, as suspected, the first course of action is to remove the poisoning agents (ammonia and nitrite) though partial water changes. Then, (and only then) an internally absorpant antibiotic should be employed, such as Kanamycin sulfate (SeaChem's Kanacyn). Without first removing the poisoning source however, the medications will not be allowed to actively participate in a treatment. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > Okey, I think it won't be easy to describe the illness using my poor English! I'll try my best though. > Only ONE of my angel fish's eyes is a bit out of place ( the fish is 2" ), and there's a tiny red spot on the eye itself, the other eye looks fine. the base of her fins is lined in red. And her gills are swollen, normally colored. > She's breathing normally, and her eyes and body are otherwise clean. > All the other fish, including the other AngelFish look fine. > > What could have caused this? is it a parasite, or bacteria? > > Any advise? > > Best Regards, > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27908	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > > > > If, by your exchanging 1 ounce of well and tap water from the 8 ounce > > cup isn't considered a partial water change, I'd like to know what > > else you meant by that. And why do you think it would take 8 total > > water changes for them to reach 100% well water? If you think > > I'm "hung up" on the PWC idea, this is where I got it from. > > > I understand how this could be confusing, which is why I clarified with the > written out version in the first place. The fact is one can not remove one > ounce of tap water from mixed water, it is simply impossible :) so it would > have to be done as a 100% water change. I didn't specify "partial" or > "100%" there though, so that is why I made the later clarification. With > the method listed in my last post, it would only take 8 complete changes > (1/7, 2/6, 3/5, 4/4, 5/3, 6/2, 7/1, 8). > >As I said, I did not go back into the history of this thread -- only took the thread I replied to at face value. > > BTW, I > > never said that small tanks/bowls/cups do not need 100% new water > > when the water is changed, but then, if you're not going to put them > > back into their 10 gallon aquarium once its set back up again, until > > its cycled, you should at least consider putting them in 1/2 gallon > > jars for easier maintenance. > > > As I said in a prior post, I don't think it is realistic to wait long enough > for the water to fully cycle. I don't have additional containers outside of > the cups and the single 1/2 gallon bowl I use for the hospital tank. > >Alright, I had not seen your prior post. > > If you are going to put the fish in the > > 10 gallon tank as soon as its set up again (with well water), there > > no need to even consider water changes in the cups. > > > Really??? Wouldn't they be shocked with the sudden change from my old tap > water to the well water? > Once you have acclimated your Bettas over to 100% well water in the cvups, as you've stated your intentions to do, there is no further need to even consider doing further water changes in the cups. You may just as well introduce the fish right into the 10 gallon tank after this time as they'll be fully acclimated also to the tank's water by then. > Changing out > > 100% of any fishes water in any container at any time should never be > > done except in extreme situations where absolutely necessary as a > > last recourse. If found to be needed (by testing), if an 8 ounce cup > > is found to be needing water changes, its best to do several smaller > > (30%, 40% 50% . . . ) water changes up to the point that its needed > > (it may only need 20%, or maybe 60%), more often, than doing 100% > > water changes. > > > > Really? This is totally contradictory to everything I have read about 1/2 > gallon and less containers. I do a full water change on my hospital bowl > when there's someone in it too. > If you have read that its totally acceptable to do complete water changes on any fish, regardless of the size of the container (even half-gallon or less), except in extreme cases when absolutely necessary (as in transferring a fish to a hospital tank for treatment), you have been reading the WRONG literature! Even then, you should try to match the water parameters as closely as possible to that of the tank in which the fish are to be taken out of, to prevent osmotic and pH shock. Ray > -Lana > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27909	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Hi Lana What came to my mind while reading that you'll do 100% water changes while travelling is: Is your FRESH tap water suitable for your bettas? Did you try this 100% water change before when your bettas were in the 10G tank? I understand that you'll acclimate them with well water during the travel, but the idea of 100% water changes doesn't seem right for a fish. Even in small tanks/bowls, it's recommended that you do only 50% WC everyday. "to avoid pH difference mainly I think, in addition to keeping your useful bacteria there". Good luck with your travel, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water I think the rest of your questions were answered in my most recent email. I hadn't even thought of the chance that they couldn't acclimate to the new water. That would make me very, very sad. I guess in that case I'd see if my Mom had any of her emergency bottled water stash left and talk her into buying a new stash so I could use the bottled stuff for my girls. If she didn't... well... sheesh... if my food stamps transfer fast enough I guess I could buy them some of the spring water I used to use when I had just Dottie in her 0.5 gallon bowl. I really hope I can use my Mom's well water. It sucks enough having to move back home after being independent for 6 years... I'd be crushed if I had to part with my little tribe of betta girls. Despite everything that has gone horribly wrong in the last 4 months, the idea of losing my girls is the only thing so far that has brought tears to my eyes. -Lana Also, how do you know you CAN acclimate them to the new tap water? What if > it isn't suitable for bettas at all? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27910	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill

Ray, As I mentioned before, I don't have a testing kit "neither does any LFS here". But I performed a 25% PWC earlier today. I'll bring an antibiotic first thing tomorrow, but the only one I could find "that can be applied to fish tanks" is called "GREEN something!!", I'll write down the exact name tomorrow and let you know. Can I perform PWC several times in a raw? if not, what's the biggest PWC that I'm allowed to perform daily, or bi-daily, without stressing the ill fish? My tank is a 20G. Do I need to quarantine her? will a bucket with an air stone be an acceptable hospital? Note: I'm not needing any heater now, so temperature isn't a problem for the hospital bucket. Thanks, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 2:58 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Angel is ill Noura, This is a situation where knowing the readings of your water parameters would be especially meaningful as, most often when red (blood) shows at the base of the fins and in the eyes, a condition known as septicemia (viral or bacterial/aeromonas) has set in due to high ammonia and'or nitrite levels. Effectively, the fish have ammonia poisoning in such cases. If your water is found to be high in ammonia and/or nitrite, as suspected, the first course of action is to remove the poisoning agents (ammonia and nitrite) though partial water changes. Then, (and only then) an internally absorpant antibiotic should be employed, such as Kanamycin sulfate (SeaChem's Kanacyn). Without first removing the poisoning source however, the medications will not be allowed to actively participate in a treatment. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > Okey, I think it won't be easy to describe the illness using my poor English! I'll try my best though. > Only ONE of my angel fish's eyes is a bit out of place ( the fish is 2" ), and there's a tiny red spot on the eye itself, the other eye looks fine. the base of her fins is lined in red. And her gills are swollen, normally colored. > She's breathing normally, and her eyes and body are otherwise clean. > All the other fish, including the other AngelFish look fine. > > What could have caused this? is it a parasite, or bacteria? > > Any advise? > > Best Regards, > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27911	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

> > > > If you are going to put the fish in the > > > 10 gallon tank as soon as its set up again (with well water), > there no need to even consider water changes in the cups. > > > > > > Really??? Wouldn't they be shocked with the sudden change from my > old tap water to the well water? > > > > > Once you have acclimated your Bettas over to 100% well water in the > cvups, as you've stated your intentions to do, there is no further > need to even consider doing further water changes in the cups. You > may just as well introduce the fish right into the 10 gallon tank > after this time as they'll be fully acclimated also to the tank's > water by then. Okay, it sounded like you were saying don't worry about the acclimation in the cups at all. Now I understand what you mean and yes, I would intro them to the tank as soon as that was done. If you have read that its totally acceptable to do complete water > changes on any fish, regardless of the size of the container (even > half-gallon or less), except in extreme cases when absolutely > necessary (as in transferring a fish to a hospital tank for > treatment), you have been reading the WRONG literature! Then almost everything out there is wrong... and I'm not surprised by that. LOL. I need a good, reliable book (I've read too many to list and they all talk about small tanks *needing* complete water changes). Any suggestions? -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27912	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Sorry for the mistake in saying "during the travel" it should have been "after travelling". ----- Original Message ----- > From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 3:07 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27913	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

because you are adding a certain percentage of NEW (fresh, unadulterated) water as the Partial Water Change. In the case that you exhibit, your normal 10% PWC is just that -- this new water (10% of the tank's volume) is considered as your partial water change. While the 90% remainder of your tank water has sometimes been referred to as "aged water," especially in the earlier years of the hobby; this can get confusing with the newer use of the term "aged water," as being fresh-drawn tap water (intended for PWC use) which has been "aged" for a brief time before use, to allow the pH to adjust and/or to allow chlorine gases to escape. It's often just referred to as "tank water" (with no "aged" prefix). Yes, agreed, when filling your hospital tank with 100% (treated) tap water, after emptying it, this would be considered as much of a 100% water change as replacing all (100%) of your tank water -- as its all NEW, as opposed to "tank water" in which the fish are presently living in, promoting wastes and excreting hormones. In any case however, before using your hospital tank for a fish coming from your aquarium, you should first test it and either adjust it if needed (if much different than your tank water) or acclimate your sick fish slowly to it. I totally understand your confusion in the situation of your moving to a new water source. In this case since we are dealing with the introduction of quite possibly entirely different (or at least a different water source) this is a more unique situation which seldom is dealt with outside of moving, with the exception of a single breeding establishment using two or more different types of water (from the same source) by employing reverse osmosis or by adding carbonates to the water. Different sources of water, as in your well water, need to be defined as the "Change" or "Changing" water of your PWC's with your old (in this case "previous") tap water in order to understand that the well water is the water doing the PWC's -- actually changing the nature of the water mixture in various percentages with each PWC. While the portion of fresh tap water you are using new daily for this fish is water that they have gotten used to (adapted to), they have not yet adapted to the well water and are being acclimated to it. This is where "partial water changing" comes in, in this context, in adjusting the fish to entirely new water conditions, but to be understood at the time, it must be differentiated from normal water changing without considering the tap water as new water in such water changes (even if it is fresh) -- as now only the well water is actually "new." Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > So why is a normal PWC referred to as a x% PWC if you're using water from > the same source as the initial water? For example, my normal 10% PWC > consists of me removing 10% of my aquarium's water and replacing it with my > current (treated) tap water. That leaves me 90% of the poopy water (is > there an official word for the aged tank water?) > > For my hospital bowl, I put 100% (treated) tap water in after emptying it of > 100% of its poopy/aged water. This AFAIK is a 100% water change. > > I understand that the parameters in the tank change as the tank ages, so it > isn't the same as the water I put in there when I started. What I don't > understand is why the standard terminology gets totally redefined just > because I'm dealing with two different water sources that I am mixing. I > mean, outside of moving, when does anyone ever do that? > > -Lana > > On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > wrote: > > > While it now seems as though our messages/replies are crossing each > > other in cyberspace, I do not wish to persue this thread any longer. > > The dead horse has been beaten enough. I would only like to add that > > your 1 ounce of well water and 7 ounces of old (tap) water -- and > > your 2 ounces of well water and 6 ounces of old water ARE NOT > > considered 100% water changes as far as the water parameters thebfish > > are living in (and I'm glad to see you're not doing 100% water > > changes). I understand now that you're planning to use 2 ounces of > > 100% fresh well water AND 8 ounces of 100% FRESH tap water as being > > considered as a 100% water change if I follow you correctly. These > > are considered as partial water changes as far as their different > > water parameters go even if both the well water and the tap water are > > new from their sources. You are slowly acclimating the fish from > > your old tap water conditions to your well water, and a wise way to > > do it, I might add. A 100% water change in this situation would be > > considered as such only if the fish were given 100% well water (a > > complete change in the water that they're presently living in) and as > > far as my ability to read, perhaps you need to learn more about > > aquarium terminology so that people can better understand what you're > > trying to get across. I see I'm not the only one confused here, > > although I believe I now understand, after much difficulty in > > deciphering your meaning, the actual jist of your statements. Ray > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27914	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

This is the first time you have mentioned the length of your move, other than a mention of state-to-state. That does not mean much to me here, where, in less than an hour, I can be in DC, MD, PA, or WV. From my previous residence, I could be in NY, CT, RI, NH, ME, or VT in an hour or slightly more. I used to have to drive though a portion of CT to get from my house in MA to another town in MA, since it was the quickest and easiest way to get there. I'm sure that there are others on this list who can be in another state, or more than one in less than 2 hours. You did mention that you could not run back and forth to get water from your old source. I went to Bethesda, MD last night, and it took us about 30 minutes. However, during the week, when I would be able to make the trip, starting from a location closer to Bethesda, it would take me an hour or more to make the same one way trip. If we had gone earlier in the day yesterday, it would have taken us between 45-60 minutes for the trip. And I am talking only 24 miles one way. Not a trip I'd want to make on a regular basis. To drive from my current residence to my parents house is about 500 miles, and takes me 7-8 hours for the trip. To me, it means you'll have about a 10 hour drive to reach your destination. Since you claim to be limited on space, I'd bag the fish, and not use the cups, with just atmospheric air and pack them in the empty tank, along with the other paraphernalia I would need to set up the tank. The fish and the tank would be the last thing I moved, and the first thing I setup upon my arrival. Keeping the substrate and filter damp during the move will help upon setup at the new location. The two or three gallons of water you will have available will do just fine for putting the fish back in the tank. The nitrifying bacteria should start kicking in right away, if the substrate and filter have been kept damp during the trip, though it will take them a bit to get back to a full working colony. Immediately measuring the pH of the new water and then measuring it in 24 hours will give you a good idea of what needs to be done from there. If the 24 hour pH is close to your old pH, within a point or two, you are golden, and can immediately add some water to the tank. If there is a radical difference, you will then need to fall back on a plan similar to the one you devised with the cups, removing some water each day and adding some new to the mix. Depending on the difference in pH, you may be able to add more than you remove, hastening the length of time it will take to refill the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 3:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water I'm just trying to make a point. I'm sick of asking a question only to have someone not read before replying. People are more than capable of reading and asking for clarification when it is needed - if not they shouldn't be bothering to reply as it is as much a waste of their time as mine to go on and on about something that isn't pertinent to the current situation. I am moving almost 600 miles. I have other things that need to go in my car (such as a dozen houseplants, the tank, my clothing, my dog, etc) that will be taking up quite a bit of room. Even two 5 gallon buckets would take up a considerable part of my sub-compact - I can fit a few gallon jugs in the nooks and crannies, but not enough to take the whole tank's worth of water. If I happened to already own a few 5 gallon buckets, I'd send them with the movers - but as I don't and I don't have any spare money to get them, that isn't going to work. The lack of the buckets is one of the main reasons why Lenny's drip method, although ideal, may not work for me either. That's why I'm still thinking about acclimating them while in the cups. -Lana On 5/18/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > Lana, > > Despite all this back and forth, ,it is only a 10 gallon tank we are > talking about, and the total water in that tank is probably somewhere > between 8 and 9 gallons. A couple of 5 gallon buckets will hold your old > water, and your fish as well during the move, then set up the tank and put > the water and fish back in. Regular 10% water changes will eventually get > your fish acclimated to the new water and problem is resolved. > > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27915	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Ray, Betta breeders do do 100% water changes in their jars all the time. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > > > > If, by your exchanging 1 ounce of well and tap water from the 8 ounce > > cup isn't considered a partial water change, I'd like to know what > > else you meant by that. And why do you think it would take 8 total > > water changes for them to reach 100% well water? If you think > > I'm "hung up" on the PWC idea, this is where I got it from. > > > I understand how this could be confusing, which is why I clarified with the > written out version in the first place. The fact is one can not remove one > ounce of tap water from mixed water, it is simply impossible :) so it would > have to be done as a 100% water change. I didn't specify "partial" or > "100%" there though, so that is why I made the later clarification. With > the method listed in my last post, it would only take 8 complete changes > (1/7, 2/6, 3/5, 4/4, 5/3, 6/2, 7/1, 8). > >As I said, I did not go back into the history of this thread -- only took the thread I replied to at face value. > > BTW, I > > never said that small tanks/bowls/cups do not need 100% new water > > when the water is changed, but then, if you're not going to put them > > back into their 10 gallon aquarium once its set back up again, until > > its cycled, you should at least consider putting them in 1/2 gallon > > jars for easier maintenance. > > > As I said in a prior post, I don't think it is realistic to wait long enough > for the water to fully cycle. I don't have additional containers outside of > the cups and the single 1/2 gallon bowl I use for the hospital tank. > >Alright, I had not seen your prior post. > > If you are going to put the fish in the > > 10 gallon tank as soon as its set up again (with well water), there > > no need to even consider water changes in the cups. > > > Really??? Wouldn't they be shocked with the sudden change from my old tap > water to the well water? > Once you have acclimated your Bettas over to 100% well water in the cvups, as you've stated your intentions to do, there is no further need to even consider doing further water changes in the cups. You may just as well introduce the fish right into the 10 gallon tank after this time as they'll be fully acclimated also to the tank's water by then. > Changing out > > 100% of any fishes water in any container at any time should never be > > done except in extreme situations where absolutely necessary as a > > last recourse. If found to be needed (by testing), if an 8 ounce cup > > is found to be needing water changes, its best to do several smaller > > (30%, 40% 50% . . . ) water changes up to the point that its needed > > (it may only need 20%, or maybe 60%), more often, than doing 100% > > water changes. > > > > Really? This is totally contradictory to everything I have read about 1/2 > gallon and less containers. I do a full water change on my hospital bowl > when there's someone in it too. > If you have read that its totally acceptable to do complete water changes on any fish, regardless of the size of the container (even half-gallon or less), except in extreme cases when absolutely necessary (as in transferring a fish to a hospital tank for treatment), you have been reading the WRONG literature! Even then, you should try to match the water parameters as closely as possible to that of the tank in which the fish are to be taken out of, to prevent osmotic and pH shock. Ray > -Lana > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27916	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill

Noura, From what you have said about your tank, the problem is most likely a problem with ammonia and/or nitrite levels in you r tank. As I recall, your tank was already a bit overcrowded when you added more fish last week. You probably should initiate a regimen of 25-50% daily water changes to decrease the levels of these two compounds. The medication you speak of is probably malachite green, which will not help you at all in this situation. Only reducing the load in your tank and getting the nitrogenous compounds under control will. Knowing exactly what to do, and where you might be in your cycle is impossible to determine without test kits, so we sort of need to go about it the best we can without any measurements. If you can remove some of the fish into another aquarium (and, I recall you said you had no room for another) you would be so much better off. You can try to take some of the healthy looking ones back to the store asking for store credit for them, to be spent at a future time. You may have a friend or two who might like a few fish. One way or another, the population will need to be reduced. Also keep in mind that the angel will eventually need to be housed in at least a 30 gallon tank on its own, or a larger tank if with buddies. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My Angel is ill Ray, As I mentioned before, I don't have a testing kit "neither does any LFS here". But I performed a 25% PWC earlier today. I'll bring an antibiotic first thing tomorrow, but the only one I could find "that can be applied to fish tanks" is called "GREEN something!!", I'll write down the exact name tomorrow and let you know. Can I perform PWC several times in a raw? if not, what's the biggest PWC that I'm allowed to perform daily, or bi-daily, without stressing the ill fish? My tank is a 20G. Do I need to quarantine her? will a bucket with an air stone be an acceptable hospital? Note: I'm not needing any heater now, so temperature isn't a problem for the hospital bucket. Thanks, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 2:58 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Angel is ill Noura, This is a situation where knowing the readings of your water parameters would be especially meaningful as, most often when red (blood) shows at the base of the fins and in the eyes, a condition known as septicemia (viral or bacterial/aeromonas) has set in due to high ammonia and'or nitrite levels. Effectively, the fish have ammonia poisoning in such cases. If your water is found to be high in ammonia and/or nitrite, as suspected, the first course of action is to remove the poisoning agents (ammonia and nitrite) though partial water changes. Then, (and only then) an internally absorpant antibiotic should be employed, such as Kanamycin sulfate (SeaChem's Kanacyn). Without first removing the poisoning source however, the medications will not be allowed to actively participate in a treatment. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > Okey, I think it won't be easy to describe the illness using my poor English! I'll try my best though. > Only ONE of my angel fish's eyes is a bit out of place ( the fish is 2" ), and there's a tiny red spot on the eye itself, the other eye looks fine. the base of her fins is lined in red. And her gills are swollen, normally colored. > She's breathing normally, and her eyes and body are otherwise clean. > All the other fish, including the other AngelFish look fine. > > What could have caused this? is it a parasite, or bacteria? > > Any advise? > > Best Regards, > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27917	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill

Tell us more about your tank, other fish, etc., etc., including water parameters. Eye problems and the fins with red streaks are both signs of bacterial problems but can also be related to high ammonia levels Barring a physical injury (fight, rough edge rock, etc.), 90% of fish problems are a result of stress and immune system issues related to water quality issues, undersized tanks, overstocked tanks, mis-stocking, etc., that cause a fish to get stressed and causes their immune system to weaken so that they are more likely to fall victim to bacterial or parasitic issues that they might otherwise be able to fend off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 1:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Angel is ill Okey, I think it won't be easy to describe the illness using my poor English! I'll try my best though. Only ONE of my angel fish's eyes is a bit out of place ( the fish is 2" ), and there's a tiny red spot on the eye itself, the other eye looks fine. the base of her fins is lined in red. And her gills are swollen, normally colored. She's breathing normally, and her eyes and body are otherwise clean. All the other fish, including the other AngelFish look fine. What could have caused this? is it a parasite, or bacteria? Any advise? Best Regards, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1453 - Release Date: 5/18/2008 9:31 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1453 - Release Date: 5/18/2008 9:31 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27918	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

All I know is that I'm glad to NOT be the center of controversy for a change. ;-) I tried to find an online version of Rock'em Sock'em Robots but couldn't find a link. If someone else can find it, let me know. We can handle our lil group in-fights with a nice online boxing match. ;-) Uh Oh! I think I just went and tossed myself into the middle of the ring. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 5:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water I have since clarified this several times over, including a full explanation of what I meant by the original statement. You do realize that email threads evolve, right? You can't keep going back to the first message in the thread and insisting that you're right when further explanations have come to light. I'm gonna walk you through this one more time and then I'm giving up. I said "Day 1: 100% water change to 1 ounce well, 7 ounce old" and what that means is I will prep a new betta cup by adding 1 ounce well water and 7 ounces water that traveled from old house. I will move the betta to new cup and dump the old cup out. 100% of the water has been changed (as opposed to your example of 12.5%). Next day, I'll prep another new cup with 2 ounces well water and 6 ounces water that traveled from old house and move her to that cup. Dump yesterday's cup of 1/7. And so on. As you can (hopefully) see, I am not "changing" one ounce of water. I am incrementing the amount of well water used in the full and complete water change by one ounce each time. Under no circumstances would I ever find it acceptable to keep any of the water from an 8 ounce cup at a water change. NOW do you see the difference? I'm not saying you're wrong (you're right about the water changes on a 12.5% change), it is just the 12.5% *does not pertain to me* as I'm switching 100% of the water. Got it now? If so, I expect an apology for your ridiculously rude attitude. If not, don't even bother replying because it'll only lessen my already low opinion of your ability to read. -Lana On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > wrote: > Lana, Here is the message of yours that I replied to. I suggest your > re-reading it to refresh your memory. Ray > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1453 - Release Date: 5/18/2008 9:31 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27919	From: pedunson	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: new to the group

hi everyone, Im new to the group. I live in the Philippines, a tropical country where we have abundant tropical fish. I used to be in the business of breeding fresh tropical fish 3 years ago. I was breeding goldfish, carps(koi), cyclids, barbs, and live bearers. My specialty although is in live bearers as I like the colors of these small fish and their swift swimming. Makes an aquarium very lively. I stopped the business 3 years ago when a strong typhoon and flood destroyed my fish farm. I still breed some live bearers in concrete ponds...swordtails and guppy mostly, as a hobby. Joined the group for sharing of ideas in connection to tropical fish. I would like to have an aquiruim some time, but would like to try saltwater fish for a change. The colors are simply magnificent!! I might be able to drop in a couple of days in a week as my work entails me to be in the field always. I'm a Farmer and Real Estate Consultant by profession. Good luck to all. ped

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27920	From: sullllly	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill

-I Cured a sick fish recently. I like to use a quarantine tank something small. If your other fish look fine this guy probably has some kind of parasite . Here is what I did to cure my very sick not eating half dead fish. Small 10 gal hospital tank. 2 tsps of aquarium salt, raise temp to 80 82F quick cure drops and melafix. Provide a hiding place to reduce stress. This guy slowly recovered and is now healthy. Parasites dont like salt, raising the temp boosts the immune system. If you do get a small hospital tank it need not have gravel or bio filter but change water often to prevent ammonia building. In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n- taweel@...> wrote: > > > Okey, I think it won't be easy to describe the illness using my poor English! I'll try my best though. > Only ONE of my angel fish's eyes is a bit out of place ( the fish is 2" ), and there's a tiny red spot on the eye itself, the other eye looks fine. the base of her fins is lined in red. And her gills are swollen, normally colored. > She's breathing normally, and her eyes and body are otherwise clean. > All the other fish, including the other AngelFish look fine. > > What could have caused this? is it a parasite, or bacteria? > > Any advise? > > Best Regards, > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27921	From: jviswakula	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Fish photos wanted

Hello All, My name is Jinen and I am the administrator of http://www.finvillage.com I am in search of nice fish and invertebrate photos that I can upload in to my site. I cant pay for the photos, but I can give full credit to the owner of the photos, at finvillage.com. If you feel uncomfortable letting me upload the photos, you can do it yourself, by signing up for your own page and uploading the photos yourself, under your own name. Please email me on admin @ finvillage.net thanks Jinen http://www.finvillage.com Blogs, Photos, Auctions, Events, Classifieds

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27922	From: sullllly	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill

-I Cured a sick fish recently. I like to use a quarantine tank something small. If your other fish look fine this guy probably has some kind of parasite . Here is what I did to cure my very sick not eating half dead fish. Small 10 gal hospital tank. 2 tsps of aquarium salt, raise temp to 80 82F quick cure drops and melafix. Provide a hiding place to reduce stress. This guy slowly recovered and is now healthy. Parasites dont like salt, raising the temp boosts the immune system. If you do get a small hospital tank it need not have gravel or bio filter but change water often to prevent ammonia building.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27923	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Thank you for explaining the technicality of the terms - I get it now. I wasn't aware the use changed when discussing two separate water supplies. -Lana On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > Different sources of water, as in your well water, need to be defined > as the "Change" or "Changing" water of your PWC's with your old (in > this case "previous") tap water in order to understand that the well > water is the water doing the PWC's -- actually changing the nature of > the water mixture in various percentages with each PWC. While the > portion of fresh tap water you are using new daily for this fish is > water that they have gotten used to (adapted to), they have not yet > adapted to the well water and are being acclimated to it. This is > where "partial water changing" comes in, in this context, in > adjusting the fish to entirely new water conditions, but to be > understood at the time, it must be differentiated from normal water > changing without considering the tap water as new water in such water > changes (even if it is fresh) -- as now only the well water is > actually "new." Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27924	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Sorry for not mentioning the length of the move earlier. I was trying to focus too narrowly it seems. The trip will take 2 or 3 days as I'm 32 weeks pregnant and I won't be driving more than 5 hours at a time... and will likely be stopping to pee once an hour (possibly more often depending on if the dog needs to go too). :) I do plan on the tank being the last thing to move, although, I do have the issue that the movers will take a little longer than me to get down there and my tank stand (really just a wood cabinet) will be going with them. It may be a day before I could get it setup. I hadn't thought about keeping the substrate damp - thank you for reminding me about that. I was already planning on keeping the filter damp as I have a lot of plants to transport too. I was going to wrap them in wet paper towels and bag them. IMHO, 2-3 gallons isn't enough for 4 betta females. They'll be at each other's throats with that little water! I get the feeling if I had any other kind of fish that it wouldn't be an issue... but these girls, they're feisty. :) If the PH does match, you say I could add "some" water immediately - how much exactly? -Lana, crossing her fingers that the PH matches. On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > To me, it means you'll have > about a 10 hour drive to reach your destination. Since you claim to be > limited on space, I'd bag the fish, and not use the cups, with just > atmospheric air and pack them in the empty tank, along with the other > paraphernalia I would need to set up the tank. The fish and the tank > would be the last thing I moved, and the first thing I setup upon my > arrival. Keeping the substrate and filter damp during the move will help > upon setup at the new location. The two or three gallons of water you > will have available will do just fine for putting the fish back in the > tank. The nitrifying bacteria should start kicking in right away, if the > substrate and filter have been kept damp during the trip, though it will > take them a bit to get back to a full working colony. Immediately > measuring the pH of the new water and then measuring it in 24 hours will > give you a good idea of what needs to be done from there. If the 24 hour > pH is close to your old pH, within a point or two, you are golden, and > can immediately add some water to the tank. If there is a radical > difference, you will then need to fall back on a plan similar to the one > you devised with the cups, removing some water each day and adding some > new to the mix. Depending on the difference in pH, you may be able to > add more than you remove, hastening the length of time it will take to > refill the tank. > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27925	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Bettas are hardy enough to handle 100% water changes. As long as you treat the water. I've personaly done that for years and never had a problem. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 21:29:23 To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water Ray, Betta breeders do do 100% water changes in their jars all the time. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:21 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > > > > If, by your exchanging 1 ounce of well and tap water from the 8 ounce > > cup isn't considered a partial water change, I'd like to know what > > else you meant by that. And why do you think it would take 8 total > > water changes for them to reach 100% well water? If you think > > I'm "hung up" on the PWC idea, this is where I got it from. > > > I understand how this could be confusing, which is why I clarified with the > written out version in the first place. The fact is one can not remove one > ounce of tap water from mixed water, it is simply impossible :) so it would > have to be done as a 100% water change. I didn't specify "partial" or > "100%" there though, so that is why I made the later clarification. With > the method listed in my last post, it would only take 8 complete changes > (1/7, 2/6, 3/5, 4/4, 5/3, 6/2, 7/1, 8). > >As I said, I did not go back into the history of this thread -- only took the thread I replied to at face value. > > BTW, I > > never said that small tanks/bowls/cups do not need 100% new water > > when the water is changed, but then, if you're not going to put them > > back into their 10 gallon aquarium once its set back up again, until > > its cycled, you should at least consider putting them in 1/2 gallon > > jars for easier maintenance. > > > As I said in a prior post, I don't think it is realistic to wait long enough > for the water to fully cycle. I don't have additional containers outside of > the cups and the single 1/2 gallon bowl I use for the hospital tank. > >Alright, I had not seen your prior post. > > If you are going to put the fish in the > > 10 gallon tank as soon as its set up again (with well water), there > > no need to even consider water changes in the cups. > > > Really??? Wouldn't they be shocked with the sudden change from my old tap > water to the well water? > Once you have acclimated your Bettas over to 100% well water in the cvups, as you've stated your intentions to do, there is no further need to even consider doing further water changes in the cups. You may just as well introduce the fish right into the 10 gallon tank after this time as they'll be fully acclimated also to the tank's water by then. > Changing out > > 100% of any fishes water in any container at any time should never be > > done except in extreme situations where absolutely necessary as a > > last recourse. If found to be needed (by testing), if an 8 ounce cup > > is found to be needing water changes, its best to do several smaller > > (30%, 40% 50% . . . ) water changes up to the point that its needed > > (it may only need 20%, or maybe 60%), more often, than doing 100% > > water changes. > > > > Really? This is totally contradictory to everything I have read about 1/2 > gallon and less containers. I do a full water change on my hospital bowl > when there's someone in it too. > If you have read that its totally acceptable to do complete water changes on any fish, regardless of the size of the container (even half-gallon or less), except in extreme cases when absolutely necessary (as in transferring a fish to a hospital tank for treatment), you have been reading the WRONG literature! Even then, you should try to match the water parameters as closely as possible to that of the tank in which the fish are to be taken out of, to prevent osmotic and pH shock. Ray > -Lana > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27926	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

My bettas do great in the fresh tap water - it tests pretty much perfect out of the tap and only needs to be treated with dechlorinator. I gather I'm pretty lucky that is the case. I will start doing 50% changes instead of 100% changes from now on when I have them in their cups or the bowl, since that seems to be the general consensus here - I can see the 50% change being easier anyway. :) -Lana On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 8:07 PM, N Taweel <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi Lana > What came to my mind while reading that you'll do 100% water changes while > travelling is: Is your FRESH tap water suitable for your bettas? Did you > try > this 100% water change before when your bettas were in the 10G tank? I > understand that you'll acclimate them with well water during the travel, > but > the idea of 100% water changes doesn't seem right for a fish. > Even in small tanks/bowls, it's recommended that you do only 50% WC > everyday. "to avoid pH difference mainly I think, in addition to keeping > your useful bacteria there". > > Good luck with your travel, > Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27927	From: harry perry	Date: 5/18/2008
Subject: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!

Everyone will eventually become stressed out over this. Maybe I can help. In the country of their origin Bettas live in drainage ditches and streams. Guess where the sewage goes from the local inhabitants?. This is a labyrinth fish. The organ was evolved over the years because of the polluted conditions they live in. Simply put, Bettas don't care about the water quality as long as they can get to the top to breath. In their country of origin the folks take a male and female and put them in a bowl filled with water from the local stream, put a cover over the bowl and come back 5 days later and take the young out. They don't use a dechlorinator because the water wasn't chlorinated or purified to begin with. All that is needed in the way of water changes is to make sure they are not swimming in their own waste. 50% 100% whatever it takes. O.K. Combine the water, don't combine the water, it doesn't matter. They have been adjusting to polluted water for millions of years, there good at it. I can see where Lana cares very much about her fish. And lots of folks tried to help. But this is a non-issue. The fish will be fine in well water, old water, new water, etc. etc. etc.. They will be happy as long as they can breath. Honest. Harry Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27928	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!

Harry, I have to disagree a little. While Betta's certainly do and have lived in bad conditions which is the reason for their having a labyrinth, I'm not so certain their osmoregulatory system will handle drastic changes in water parameters like going from a high pH, hard water to a low pH, soft water, without some acclimation. It's not just the breathing that one has to worry about. Betta's do suffer from pH shock, temperature shock, ammonia/nitrite poisoning, bacterial and parasitic issues, etc., etc., just like any other fish.... well, all of them except that one Blue Betta with the red dorsal fin and the red "S" between his pectoral fins. Nothing bothers him... SUPERBETTA!!!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 1:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!! Everyone will eventually become stressed out over this. Maybe I can help. In the country of their origin Bettas live in drainage ditches and streams. Guess where the sewage goes from the local inhabitants?. This is a labyrinth fish. The organ was evolved over the years because of the polluted conditions they live in. Simply put, Bettas don't care about the water quality as long as they can get to the top to breath. In their country of origin the folks take a male and female and put them in a bowl filled with water from the local stream, put a cover over the bowl and come back 5 days later and take the young out. They don't use a dechlorinator because the water wasn't chlorinated or purified to begin with. All that is needed in the way of water changes is to make sure they are not swimming in their own waste. 50% 100% whatever it takes. O.K. Combine the water, don't combine the water, it doesn't matter. They have been adjusting to polluted water for millions of years, there good at it. I can see where Lana cares very much about her fish. And lots of folks tried to help. But this is a non-issue. The fish will be fine in well water, old water, new water, etc. etc. etc.. They will be happy as long as they can breath. Honest. Harry Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1453 - Release Date: 5/18/2008 9:31 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27929	From: harry perry	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!/Lenn

Didn't yours have a red S. All of mine did. Harry "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Harry, I have to disagree a little. While Betta's certainly do and have lived in bad conditions which is the reason for their having a labyrinth, I'm not so certain their osmoregulatory system will handle drastic changes in water parameters like going from a high pH, hard water to a low pH, soft water, without some acclimation. It's not just the breathing that one has to worry about. Betta's do suffer from pH shock, temperature shock, ammonia/nitrite poisoning, bacterial and parasitic issues, etc., etc., just like any other fish.... well, all of them except that one Blue Betta with the red dorsal fin and the red "S" between his pectoral fins. Nothing bothers him... SUPERBETTA!!!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 1:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!! Everyone will eventually become stressed out over this. Maybe I can help. In the country of their origin Bettas live in drainage ditches and streams. Guess where the sewage goes from the local inhabitants?. This is a labyrinth fish. The organ was evolved over the years because of the polluted conditions they live in. Simply put, Bettas don't care about the water quality as long as they can get to the top to breath. In their country of origin the folks take a male and female and put them in a bowl filled with water from the local stream, put a cover over the bowl and come back 5 days later and take the young out. They don't use a dechlorinator because the water wasn't chlorinated or purified to begin with. All that is needed in the way of water changes is to make sure they are not swimming in their own waste. 50% 100% whatever it takes. O.K. Combine the water, don't combine the water, it doesn't matter. They have been adjusting to polluted water for millions of years, there good at it. I can see where Lana cares very much about her fish. And lots of folks tried to help. But this is a non-issue. The fish will be fine in well water, old water, new water, etc. etc. etc.. They will be happy as long as they can breath. Honest. Harry Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1453 - Release Date: 5/18/2008 9:31 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27930	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!...

Mine has a black cape and goes by the name of General Zod. -Mike In a message dated 5/19/2008 1:42:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, harryfisherman@... writes: Didn't yours have a red S. All of mine did. Harry **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27931	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Lana, If you are familiar with the drip method you can go ahead and SLOWLY acclimate them one slow drop at a time to their new water. Providing of course that the new water is safe for fish to begin with. As someone else mentioned you have taken in a lot of information and contrary opinions in a short amount of time. Mine is merely a suggestion. If you want to know more myself or others can provide information on the drip method. -Mike In a message dated 5/18/2008 10:58:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lana.m.gibbons@... writes: If the PH does match, you say I could add "some" water immediately - how much exactly? -Lana, crossing her fingers that the PH matches. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27932	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

If the pH matches, within a point or two either way, just fill the tank with the transported water and then with the well water. No real need to slowly acclimate. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 9:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water Sorry for not mentioning the length of the move earlier. I was trying to focus too narrowly it seems. The trip will take 2 or 3 days as I'm 32 weeks pregnant and I won't be driving more than 5 hours at a time... and will likely be stopping to pee once an hour (possibly more often depending on if the dog needs to go too). :) I do plan on the tank being the last thing to move, although, I do have the issue that the movers will take a little longer than me to get down there and my tank stand (really just a wood cabinet) will be going with them. It may be a day before I could get it setup. I hadn't thought about keeping the substrate damp - thank you for reminding me about that. I was already planning on keeping the filter damp as I have a lot of plants to transport too. I was going to wrap them in wet paper towels and bag them. IMHO, 2-3 gallons isn't enough for 4 betta females. They'll be at each other's throats with that little water! I get the feeling if I had any other kind of fish that it wouldn't be an issue... but these girls, they're feisty. :) If the PH does match, you say I could add "some" water immediately - how much exactly? -Lana, crossing her fingers that the PH matches. On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > To me, it means you'll have > about a 10 hour drive to reach your destination. Since you claim to be > limited on space, I'd bag the fish, and not use the cups, with just > atmospheric air and pack them in the empty tank, along with the other > paraphernalia I would need to set up the tank. The fish and the tank > would be the last thing I moved, and the first thing I setup upon my > arrival. Keeping the substrate and filter damp during the move will help > upon setup at the new location. The two or three gallons of water you > will have available will do just fine for putting the fish back in the > tank. The nitrifying bacteria should start kicking in right away, if the > substrate and filter have been kept damp during the trip, though it will > take them a bit to get back to a full working colony. Immediately > measuring the pH of the new water and then measuring it in 24 hours will > give you a good idea of what needs to be done from there. If the 24 hour > pH is close to your old pH, within a point or two, you are golden, and > can immediately add some water to the tank. If there is a radical > difference, you will then need to fall back on a plan similar to the one > you devised with the cups, removing some water each day and adding some > new to the mix. Depending on the difference in pH, you may be able to > add more than you remove, hastening the length of time it will take to > refill the tank. > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27933	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water

Steve, Thanks for the enlightening input on Betta water changing, and I trust you know of this personally. As we all know, everybody's water is different, and with some sources this may be completely allowable, especially when coming from a private well where no chemicals are added. Knowing only a handful of Betta Breeders over the years, but those who rank up there at the very top, I can add that they've confided in me that one of their main success secrets is to never change 100% of the water, and as we know, this is not recommended at all for general fish maintenance for the average hobbyist for so many reasons that would get them in trouble (dead fish in short time). You may know (or know of) Rich Martucci, an NJAS member up here in North Jersey who is one of the top Betta breeders in the Northeast and a consistent trophy winner. At our meeting only last week, he was telling me about how he bastes (turkey baster) 200 jars a day cleaning up the waste, etc., from the bottoms of the jars, but never does a complete water change. He explicitely told me that he would never even consider doing 100% water changes; he went on to say that in doing so, he would be inviting damage to his fish's fins; not physically caused, but that caused by a complete change of water. I'm sure you must have known the late Warren Young. Warren (and his wife Libby) were also NJAS members back many years, and as most anyone knows were world reknown as Betta breeders -- Warren developed the Libby Betta, named after his wife. During my visits to his fish room, he told me flat out that 100% water changes are never to be done with Bettas, and that although it would make life much simpler in maintaining all those hundreds of jars, he would never attempt that. Another well known Betta breeder of that time by the name of Nick Messina, an Exotic Aquarium Society of NJ (now defunct) member back in Warren's time also subscribed to the same reasoning. I would also like to point out that Walt Mauris, whom I'm positive you must have known, never employed nor recommended complete water changes either in his discussions with me. However, as I've just stated earlier in this thread, I frequently do 90% (or even 95%) water changes with my Angels and other S.A. Cichlids as the more fresh water I give them, the more these particular fish love it -- you can see it in their demeanor -- although I would not generally recommend it to the average hobbyist. I'll admit that I occasionally do 100% water changes, and the only reason I don't do a bit more of this not only because I don't feel the need to (no further benefit), but that I prefer keeping the fish in the same tanks and I'm not about to draw the water down below their dorsal bases. But then, with knowing my water the way I do, I'm confident in realizing I can do this to the fishes' advantage. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Betta breeders do do 100% water changes in their jars all the time. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" > <lana.m.gibbons@> wrote: > > > > > > > > If, by your exchanging 1 ounce of well and tap water from the 8 > ounce > > > cup isn't considered a partial water change, I'd like to know what > > > else you meant by that. And why do you think it would take 8 > total > > > water changes for them to reach 100% well water? If you think > > > I'm "hung up" on the PWC idea, this is where I got it from. > > > > > > I understand how this could be confusing, which is why I clarified > with the > > written out version in the first place. The fact is one can not > remove one > > ounce of tap water from mixed water, it is simply impossible :) so > it would > > have to be done as a 100% water change. I didn't specify "partial" > or > > "100%" there though, so that is why I made the later > clarification. With > > the method listed in my last post, it would only take 8 complete > changes > > (1/7, 2/6, 3/5, 4/4, 5/3, 6/2, 7/1, 8). > > > > >As I said, I did not go back into the history of this thread -- only > took the thread I replied to at face value. > > > > > > BTW, I > > > never said that small tanks/bowls/cups do not need 100% new water > > > when the water is changed, but then, if you're not going to put > them > > > back into their 10 gallon aquarium once its set back up again, > until > > > its cycled, you should at least consider putting them in 1/2 > gallon > > > jars for easier maintenance. > > > > > > As I said in a prior post, I don't think it is realistic to wait > long enough > > for the water to fully cycle. I don't have additional containers > outside of > > the cups and the single 1/2 gallon bowl I use for the hospital tank. > > > > >Alright, I had not seen your prior post. > > > > > > If you are going to put the fish in the > > > 10 gallon tank as soon as its set up again (with well water), > there > > > no need to even consider water changes in the cups. > > > > > > Really??? Wouldn't they be shocked with the sudden change from my > old tap > > water to the well water? > > > > Once you have acclimated your Bettas over to 100% well water in the > cvups, as you've stated your intentions to do, there is no further > need to even consider doing further water changes in the cups. You > may just as well introduce the fish right into the 10 gallon tank > after this time as they'll be fully acclimated also to the tank's > water by then. > > > > > Changing out > > > 100% of any fishes water in any container at any time should > never be > > > done except in extreme situations where absolutely necessary as a > > > last recourse. If found to be needed (by testing), if an 8 ounce > cup > > > is found to be needing water changes, its best to do several > smaller > > > (30%, 40% 50% . . . ) water changes up to the point that its > needed > > > (it may only need 20%, or maybe 60%), more often, than doing 100% > > > water changes. > > > > > > > Really? This is totally contradictory to everything I have read > about 1/2 > > gallon and less containers. I do a full water change on my > hospital bowl > > when there's someone in it too. > > > > If you have read that its totally acceptable to do complete water > changes on any fish, regardless of the size of the container (even > half-gallon or less), except in extreme cases when absolutely > necessary (as in transferring a fish to a hospital tank for > treatment), you have been reading the WRONG literature! Even then, > you should try to match the water parameters as closely as possible > to that of the tank in which the fish are to be taken out of, to > prevent osmotic and pH shock. Ray > > > > > -Lana > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27934	From: ED	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Question about a Black Ghost and Clown Knife

We hand feed our BGknife frozen Mysis shrimp, Brine and Bloodworms being the favorite. And Lenny is right you will need a much bigger tank for the Clown. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Keri Kimball <kiwi762@...> wrote: > > Hey all I have a question. Besides Tubefex worms whatelse will a Black Ghost eat? Also beside feeder fish what else will a Clown Knife eat. I'm just concerened for my Ghost because I have 2 irrisdenscent sharks that like to swallow the worms and I want to make sure my Ghost gets food. Plus I have pibk tailed sharks that go after the feeders. > > Thanks for any and all help. > Keri >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27935	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water

I have actually known a few people to do betta water changes by the turkey baster method.Its actually pretty easy to do, i watched them do it, although I never partaked in changing my betta's water that way. My last betta lived 4.5 years, got a water change 90% of his life every 2 weeks, and he got a 50% water change. But then again I kept him with no gravel as it was easier to clean his tank that way. A few months before he died I started changing his water weekly and did about a 20-25% water change then. Then a few months ago he got fin rot, he got a 15% water change daily to refreshen his water as he was being medicated but he still died. He was a troopr though, and I still look at the shelf he was on to see him. Habits are hard to break. This new betta is now living in a gallon eclipse tank, and is getting a 15% change weekly. I do have a sand substrate in his tank, along with a heater as 6 gallons is harder to keep warm than the little 2 gallon my other betta was in. It has been up and running about a month now, he is living happily with 4 MTS, and 3 shrimps (1 blue, 1 bumblebee and one ghost). Its a happy little tank if I do say so myself :) ~Melissa --- Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > Steve, Thanks for the enlightening input on Betta > water changing, > and I trust you know of this personally. As we all > know, everybody's > water is different, and with some sources this may > be completely > allowable, especially when coming from a private > well where no > chemicals are added. > > Knowing only a handful of Betta Breeders over the > years, but those > who rank up there at the very top, I can add that > they've confided in > me that one of their main success secrets is to > never change 100% of > the water, and as we know, this is not recommended > at all for general > fish maintenance for the average hobbyist for so > many reasons that > would get them in trouble (dead fish in short time). > > You may know (or know of) Rich Martucci, an NJAS > member up here in > North Jersey who is one of the top Betta breeders in > the Northeast > and a consistent trophy winner. At our meeting only > last week, he > was telling me about how he bastes (turkey baster) > 200 jars a day > cleaning up the waste, etc., from the bottoms of the > jars, but never > does a complete water change. He explicitely told > me that he would > never even consider doing 100% water changes; he > went on to say that > in doing so, he would be inviting damage to his > fish's fins; not > physically caused, but that caused by a complete > change of water. > > I'm sure you must have known the late Warren Young. > Warren (and his > wife Libby) were also NJAS members back many years, > and as most > anyone knows were world reknown as Betta breeders -- > Warren developed > the Libby Betta, named after his wife. During my > visits to his fish > room, he told me flat out that 100% water changes > are never to be > done with Bettas, and that although it would make > life much simpler > in maintaining all those hundreds of jars, he would > never attempt > that. > > Another well known Betta breeder of that time by the > name of Nick > Messina, an Exotic Aquarium Society of NJ (now > defunct) member back > in Warren's time also subscribed to the same > reasoning. I would also > like to point out that Walt Mauris, whom I'm > positive you must have > known, never employed nor recommended complete water > changes either > in his discussions with me. > > However, as I've just stated earlier in this thread, > I frequently do > 90% (or even 95%) water changes with my Angels and > other S.A. > Cichlids as the more fresh water I give them, the > more these > particular fish love it -- you can see it in their > demeanor -- > although I would not generally recommend it to the > average hobbyist. > I'll admit that I occasionally do 100% water > changes, and the only > reason I don't do a bit more of this not only > because I don't feel > the need to (no further benefit), but that I prefer > keeping the fish > in the same tanks and I'm not about to draw the > water down below > their dorsal bases. But then, with knowing my water > the way I do, > I'm confident in realizing I can do this to the > fishes' advantage. > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" > <steve@...> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > Betta breeders do do 100% water changes in their > jars all the time. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" > > > <lana.m.gibbons@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > If, by your exchanging 1 ounce of well and tap > water from the 8 > > ounce > > > > cup isn't considered a partial water change, > I'd like to know > what > > > > else you meant by that. And why do you think > it would take 8 > > total > > > > water changes for them to reach 100% well > water? If you think > > > > I'm "hung up" on the PWC idea, this is where I > got it from. > > > > > > > > > I understand how this could be confusing, which > is why I > clarified > > with the > > > written out version in the first place. The > fact is one can not > > remove one > > > ounce of tap water from mixed water, it is > simply impossible :) > so > > it would > > > have to be done as a 100% water change. I > didn't > specify "partial" > > or > > > "100%" there though, so that is why I made the > later > > clarification. With > > > the method listed in my last post, it would only > take 8 complete > > changes > > > (1/7, 2/6, 3/5, 4/4, 5/3, 6/2, 7/1, 8). > > > > > > > >As I said, I did not go back into the history of > this thread -- > only > > took the thread I replied to at face value. > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I > > > > never said that small tanks/bowls/cups do not > need 100% new > water > > > > when the water is changed, but then, if you're > not going to put > > them > > > > back into their 10 gallon aquarium once its > set back up again, > > until > > > > its cycled, you should at least consider > putting them in 1/2 > > gallon > > > > jars for easier maintenance. > > > > > > > > > As I said in a prior post, I don't think it is > realistic to wait > > long enough > > > for the water to fully cycle. I don't have > additional containers > > outside of > > > the cups and the single 1/2 gallon bowl I use > for the hospital > tank. > > > > > > > >Alright, I had not seen your prior post. > > > > > > > > > > If you are going to put the fish in the > > > > 10 gallon tank as soon as its set up again > (with well water), > > there > > > > no need to even consider water changes in the > cups. > === message truncated ===

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27936	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Well Water

Steve, That is fantastic to hear!! Please, everyone cross your fingers for me that the PHs match!!!! -Lana On 5/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > If the pH matches, within a point or two either way, just fill the tank > with the transported water and then with the well water. No real need to > slowly acclimate. > > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27937	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!

LMAO!! No superbettas here! I *wish*! It would definitely make my life easier. But really, bettas are living creatures with real personalities and from what I read, the ability to feel pain. Just because they're hardy doesn't mean I should abuse them. I like them too much for that! -Lana Betta's do suffer from pH shock, temperature shock, ammonia/nitrite > poisoning, bacterial and parasitic issues, etc., etc., just like any other > fish.... well, all of them except that one Blue Betta with the red dorsal > fin and the red "S" between his pectoral fins. Nothing bothers him... > SUPERBETTA!!!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27938	From: waves02	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: question

two 15 gallon tanks.. I have bio filters in each tank.. air wands.. I was thinking of getting air lines to the outside air... with no fumes.. setting up the pumps outside.. would that help. I have just 4 fish..but, they are like pets to me.. thank you.. caroline oh.. am thinking of staying home during the time they do the main living room..where fish are.. and then leaving for a couple of days. At 11:07 AM 5/18/2008, you wrote: >The paint fumes can/will harm/kill your fish. > >If you can't take the fish with you when you leave, will you be coming back >to the house every day to check on them? > >There are steps you could take to protect the fish from the paint fumes but >tell us more about your tanks. You said "small" but what size? What kind >of filtration on each? Live plants? Air stones? > >Lenny Vasbinder >Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of waves02 >Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 9:30 AM >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [AquaticLife] question > >I just have two tanks... small.. the house is going to be painted.. we will >be away for five days. how do I protect my fish from fumes.. if I am not >there? caroline thank you > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG. >Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1453 - Release Date: 5/18/2008 >9:31 AM > > >------------------------------------ > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27939	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: question

Good. You are thinking on the same track that I was going to lead you towards. What you can do is cover the tanks with plastic garbage bags... probably a white or opaque so the fish would at least have ambient lighting.. unless you have your lights on timers. Cover the entire set up... tank, filtration, etc. and then tape the bag around the bottom of the tank so there is very little chance of any room air getting into the tank. It's OK if it's not sealed 100% because you will be moving your air pump to a safe place outside and running the air lines into the tanks so there will be positive pressure inside the tank with the "fresh" air constantly being pumped into the tank. The extra fresh air will need to escape through the gaps where you didn't seal the bags 100%, otherwise the bags would blow up like a balloon and possibly open somewhere that you didn't want them to open. Having the small gaps, like where the air lines and electrical cords come up under the bag, will provide a way for the extra fresh air to escape and this will also keep any room air, with paint DOC's, from entering the tanks. You should also run some fresh carbon in your filters during this entire painting process... just in case. Make sure your painters turn off the room lights at night when they leave so the fish have some "night time" too. No need to overfeed prior to, or even feed the fish prior to your endeavor as fish can easily make it a week or so without eating.. in most cases... and you'll only be gone five. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of waves02 Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 10:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] question two 15 gallon tanks.. I have bio filters in each tank.. air wands.. I was thinking of getting air lines to the outside air... with no fumes.. setting up the pumps outside.. would that help. I have just 4 fish..but, they are like pets to me.. thank you.. caroline oh.. am thinking of staying home during the time they do the main living room..where fish are.. and then leaving for a couple of days. At 11:07 AM 5/18/2008, you wrote: >The paint fumes can/will harm/kill your fish. > >If you can't take the fish with you when you leave, will you be coming >back to the house every day to check on them? > >There are steps you could take to protect the fish from the paint fumes >but tell us more about your tanks. You said "small" but what size? What >kind of filtration on each? Live plants? Air stones? > >Lenny Vasbinder >Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of waves02 >Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 9:30 AM >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [AquaticLife] question > >I just have two tanks... small.. the house is going to be painted.. we >will be away for five days. how do I protect my fish from fumes.. if I >am not there? caroline thank you > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG. >Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1453 - Release Date: >5/18/2008 >9:31 AM > > >------------------------------------ > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1454 - Release Date: 5/19/2008 7:44 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27940	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: snails

Hi All, I thought I would let everyone know that the snails I've been fussing about and seeking help with are all gone. They've been gone for over a week now and I have been keeping a close eye out for them. It was a lot of work and I took several people's advice on getting rid of them. I took extra gravel and filter media and ran it in my other tank for a week to get good bacteria going on it. I then took out all the fish. Next came the ornaments and plants. I either boiled or soaked everything in salt water or both. Then I tore down the filters and placed all in hot salty water. I threw out all the gravel. I scrubbed the tank down with hot salty water and rinsed, rinsed, rinsed. Then I took the extra gravel from my other tank and started putting it all back together. After everything was back in, I took water from the good tank and put my fish back in. I checked the water twice a day and did one 20% PWC replacing with water from the other tank. Nothing new has been placed in the other tank for over a year so I know it is disease free and all. I didn't lose any fish this way and my tank didn't go into a mini cycle. It seems to be snail free now. I am much happier and my bottom feeders are getting to eat some too. :) Thanks to everyone again for the help and info. I do appreciate it! Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27941	From: harry perry	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!/Lana

I love animals too. They couldn't have a better caretaker. Harry Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: LMAO!! No superbettas here! I *wish*! It would definitely make my life easier. But really, bettas are living creatures with real personalities and from what I read, the ability to feel pain. Just because they're hardy doesn't mean I should abuse them. I like them too much for that! -Lana Betta's do suffer from pH shock, temperature shock, ammonia/nitrite > poisoning, bacterial and parasitic issues, etc., etc., just like any other > fish.... well, all of them except that one Blue Betta with the red dorsal > fin and the red "S" between his pectoral fins. Nothing bothers him... > SUPERBETTA!!!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27942	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!...

lol right now I have Capt'n Phil, but I think he might be a slightly goofy super hero, he has a pink cape :P ~Melissa --- Deenerz@... wrote: > > Mine has a black cape and goes by the name of > General Zod. > > -Mike > > > In a message dated 5/19/2008 1:42:17 A.M. Pacific > Daylight Time, > harryfisherman@... writes: > > Didn't yours have a red S. All of mine did. > > Harry > > > > > > > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? > Get new twists on family > favorites at AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27943	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: My Angel is ill

Today, I bought a 1.5 G bowl and set it as a hospital bowl. I quarantined the ill Angelfish using 80% of tank water and 20% of treated tap water. I put gravel and a weak air stone. I'm planing to add salt (think it's a good idea?). I have reduced the bio-load of the 20G tank by moving 8 adult guppies, they found a new home in my friend's 8 G tank. I'm also planning to take away all the male guppies except 2 or 3 two weeks from now, when their tails grow bigger and brighter, to the fish store. I tried to choose some of my fish to take back to the store, but I seem unable to decide.. I love them all, and can't imagine the tank without them all. Sad enough, it's not just that I don't have room for a new tank, but I also don't want to have another one, it's too much work along with my two kids (4 and 1 yrs old). I'm bringing an internal antibiotic tomorrow, we have a local company that manufactures under lisence from the American "Water Life" company. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 4:54 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: My Angel is ill > Noura, > > From what you have said about your tank, the problem is most likely a > problem with ammonia and/or nitrite levels in you r tank. As I recall, > your tank was already a bit overcrowded when you added more fish last > week. You probably should initiate a regimen of 25-50% daily water changes > to decrease the levels of these two compounds. > > The medication you speak of is probably malachite green, which will not > help you at all in this situation. Only reducing the load in your tank and > getting the nitrogenous compounds under control will. Knowing exactly what > to do, and where you might be in your cycle is impossible to determine > without test kits, so we sort of need to go about it the best we can > without any measurements. If you can remove some of the fish into another > aquarium (and, I recall you said you had no room for another) you would be > so much better off. You can try to take some of the healthy looking ones > back to the store asking for store credit for them, to be spent at a > future time. You may have a friend or two who might like a few fish. One > way or another, the population will need to be reduced. Also keep in mind > that the angel will eventually need to be housed in at least a 30 gallon > tank on its own, or a larger tank if with buddies. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My Angel is ill > > > Ray, > As I mentioned before, I don't have a testing kit "neither does any LFS > here". > But I performed a 25% PWC earlier today. I'll bring an antibiotic first > thing tomorrow, but the only one I could find "that can be applied to fish > tanks" is called "GREEN something!!", I'll write down the exact name > tomorrow and let you know. > > Can I perform PWC several times in a raw? if not, what's the biggest PWC > that I'm allowed to perform daily, or bi-daily, without stressing the ill > fish? My tank is a 20G. > Do I need to quarantine her? will a bucket with an air stone be an > acceptable hospital? Note: I'm not needing any heater now, so temperature > isn't a problem for the hospital bucket. > > Thanks, > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 2:58 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Angel is ill > > > Noura, This is a situation where knowing the readings of your water > parameters would be especially meaningful as, most often when red > (blood) shows at the base of the fins and in the eyes, a condition > known as septicemia (viral or bacterial/aeromonas) has set in due to > high ammonia and'or nitrite levels. Effectively, the fish have > ammonia poisoning in such cases. > > If your water is found to be high in ammonia and/or nitrite, as > suspected, the first course of action is to remove the poisoning > agents (ammonia and nitrite) though partial water changes. Then, > (and only then) an internally absorpant antibiotic should be > employed, such as Kanamycin sulfate (SeaChem's Kanacyn). Without > first removing the poisoning source however, the medications will not > be allowed to actively participate in a treatment. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: >> >> >> Okey, I think it won't be easy to describe the illness using my > poor English! I'll try my best though. >> Only ONE of my angel fish's eyes is a bit out of place ( the fish > is 2" ), and there's a tiny red spot on the eye itself, the other eye > looks fine. the base of her fins is lined in red. And her gills are > swollen, normally colored. >> She's breathing normally, and her eyes and body are otherwise > clean. >> All the other fish, including the other AngelFish look fine. >> >> What could have caused this? is it a parasite, or bacteria? >> >> Any advise? >> >> Best Regards, >> Noura >> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27944	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water

I never kept much in the way of splendens over the years, and never jarred, but I did have a period where I kept various of the wild types, and never did 100% water changes in their tanks, just treated them like other fish. However, I do recall reading about this practice and having others tell me about it, but I never actually saw it done. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 7:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water Steve, Thanks for the enlightening input on Betta water changing, and I trust you know of this personally. As we all know, everybody's water is different, and with some sources this may be completely allowable, especially when coming from a private well where no chemicals are added. Knowing only a handful of Betta Breeders over the years, but those who rank up there at the very top, I can add that they've confided in me that one of their main success secrets is to never change 100% of the water, and as we know, this is not recommended at all for general fish maintenance for the average hobbyist for so many reasons that would get them in trouble (dead fish in short time). You may know (or know of) Rich Martucci, an NJAS member up here in North Jersey who is one of the top Betta breeders in the Northeast and a consistent trophy winner. At our meeting only last week, he was telling me about how he bastes (turkey baster) 200 jars a day cleaning up the waste, etc., from the bottoms of the jars, but never does a complete water change. He explicitely told me that he would never even consider doing 100% water changes; he went on to say that in doing so, he would be inviting damage to his fish's fins; not physically caused, but that caused by a complete change of water. I'm sure you must have known the late Warren Young. Warren (and his wife Libby) were also NJAS members back many years, and as most anyone knows were world reknown as Betta breeders -- Warren developed the Libby Betta, named after his wife. During my visits to his fish room, he told me flat out that 100% water changes are never to be done with Bettas, and that although it would make life much simpler in maintaining all those hundreds of jars, he would never attempt that. Another well known Betta breeder of that time by the name of Nick Messina, an Exotic Aquarium Society of NJ (now defunct) member back in Warren's time also subscribed to the same reasoning. I would also like to point out that Walt Mauris, whom I'm positive you must have known, never employed nor recommended complete water changes either in his discussions with me. However, as I've just stated earlier in this thread, I frequently do 90% (or even 95%) water changes with my Angels and other S.A. Cichlids as the more fresh water I give them, the more these particular fish love it -- you can see it in their demeanor -- although I would not generally recommend it to the average hobbyist. I'll admit that I occasionally do 100% water changes, and the only reason I don't do a bit more of this not only because I don't feel the need to (no further benefit), but that I prefer keeping the fish in the same tanks and I'm not about to draw the water down below their dorsal bases. But then, with knowing my water the way I do, I'm confident in realizing I can do this to the fishes' advantage. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Betta breeders do do 100% water changes in their jars all the time. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Well Water > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lana Gibbons" > <lana.m.gibbons@> wrote: > > > > > > > > If, by your exchanging 1 ounce of well and tap water from the 8 > ounce > > > cup isn't considered a partial water change, I'd like to know what > > > else you meant by that. And why do you think it would take 8 > total > > > water changes for them to reach 100% well water? If you think > > > I'm "hung up" on the PWC idea, this is where I got it from. > > > > > > I understand how this could be confusing, which is why I clarified > with the > > written out version in the first place. The fact is one can not > remove one > > ounce of tap water from mixed water, it is simply impossible :) so > it would > > have to be done as a 100% water change. I didn't specify "partial" > or > > "100%" there though, so that is why I made the later > clarification. With > > the method listed in my last post, it would only take 8 complete > changes > > (1/7, 2/6, 3/5, 4/4, 5/3, 6/2, 7/1, 8). > > > > >As I said, I did not go back into the history of this thread -- only > took the thread I replied to at face value. > > > > > > BTW, I > > > never said that small tanks/bowls/cups do not need 100% new water > > > when the water is changed, but then, if you're not going to put > them > > > back into their 10 gallon aquarium once its set back up again, > until > > > its cycled, you should at least consider putting them in 1/2 > gallon > > > jars for easier maintenance. > > > > > > As I said in a prior post, I don't think it is realistic to wait > long enough > > for the water to fully cycle. I don't have additional containers > outside of > > the cups and the single 1/2 gallon bowl I use for the hospital tank. > > > > >Alright, I had not seen your prior post. > > > > > > If you are going to put the fish in the > > > 10 gallon tank as soon as its set up again (with well water), > there > > > no need to even consider water changes in the cups. > > > > > > Really??? Wouldn't they be shocked with the sudden change from my > old tap > > water to the well water? > > > > Once you have acclimated your Bettas over to 100% well water in the > cvups, as you've stated your intentions to do, there is no further > need to even consider doing further water changes in the cups. You > may just as well introduce the fish right into the 10 gallon tank > after this time as they'll be fully acclimated also to the tank's > water by then. > > > > > Changing out > > > 100% of any fishes water in any container at any time should > never be > > > done except in extreme situations where absolutely necessary as a > > > last recourse. If found to be needed (by testing), if an 8 ounce > cup > > > is found to be needing water changes, its best to do several > smaller > > > (30%, 40% 50% . . . ) water changes up to the point that its > needed > > > (it may only need 20%, or maybe 60%), more often, than doing 100% > > > water changes. > > > > > > > Really? This is totally contradictory to everything I have read > about 1/2 > > gallon and less containers. I do a full water change on my > hospital bowl > > when there's someone in it too. > > > > If you have read that its totally acceptable to do complete water > changes on any fish, regardless of the size of the container (even > half-gallon or less), except in extreme cases when absolutely > necessary (as in transferring a fish to a hospital tank for > treatment), you have been reading the WRONG literature! Even then, > you should try to match the water parameters as closely as possible > to that of the tank in which the fish are to be taken out of, to > prevent osmotic and pH shock. Ray > > > > > -Lana > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27945	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/19/2008
Subject: Re: An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!!

Well, you know what, I'm a newby, but I think that probably Harry is right. Unless something's awfully unusual about that well water, it's probably alot better for your fish then, say, the Austin municipal water supply! You know, that stuff with pH 9.0, 2.5 ppm of chloramine, .7 ppm free ammonia, phosphates, and everything. Just test it. You may have already had to test it before the local government would let you drink out of it - if you did you should have your own laboratory water quality report. I'd be most concerned about whatever you're doing to purify the water. Always be sure to acclimate the fish whenever you introduce them to different water, but if you're taking some fo the water from their tank (note careful phrasing), you should be all set! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: harry perry To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 1:47 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] An entire day and 69 posts on well water, good grief!!!!!!! Everyone will eventually become stressed out over this. Maybe I can help. In the country of their origin Bettas live in drainage ditches and streams. Guess where the sewage goes from the local inhabitants?. This is a labyrinth fish. The organ was evolved over the years because of the polluted conditions they live in. Simply put, Bettas don't care about the water quality as long as they can get to the top to breath. In their country of origin the folks take a male and female and put them in a bowl filled with water from the local stream, put a cover over the bowl and come back 5 days later and take the young out. They don't use a dechlorinator because the water wasn't chlorinated or purified to begin with. All that is needed in the way of water changes is to make sure they are not swimming in their own waste. 50% 100% whatever it takes. O.K. Combine the water, don't combine the water, it doesn't matter. They have been adjusting to polluted water for millions of years, there good at it. I can see where Lana cares very much about her fish. And lots of folks tried to help. But this is a non-issue. The fish will be fine in well water, old water, new water, etc. etc. etc.. They will be happy as long as they can breath. Honest. Harry Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27946	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water

What is the turkey baster method for changing water, BTW? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Walker" <playnwifsnot@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water >I have actually known a few people to do betta water > changes by the turkey baster method.Its actually > pretty easy to do, i watched them do it, although I > never partaked in changing my betta's water that way. > > My last betta lived 4.5 years, got a water change 90% > of his life every 2 weeks, and he got a 50% water > change. But then again I kept him with no gravel as it > was easier to clean his tank that way. A few months > before he died I started changing his water weekly and > did about a 20-25% water change then. Then a few > months ago he got fin rot, he got a 15% water change > daily to refreshen his water as he was being medicated > but he still died. He was a troopr though, and I still > look at the shelf he was on to see him. Habits are > hard to break. > > This new betta is now living in a gallon eclipse > tank, and is getting a 15% change weekly. I do have a > sand substrate in his tank, along with a heater as 6 > gallons is harder to keep warm than the little 2 > gallon my other betta was in. It has been up and > running about a month now, he is living happily with 4 > MTS, and 3 shrimps (1 blue, 1 bumblebee and one > ghost). Its a happy little tank if I do say so myself > :) > > ~Melissa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27947	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: new to the group

Welcome on board Ped, I'm glad to have you in the group, and looking forward to hear your breeding experiences, as I'm breeding Guppies as a hobby too. Nothing big, just using a hatchery and a 2 G fry tank with box filter. I move them to the 20 G community tank once they're big enough to escape the AngelFish mouth! But I always seem to have more male fries than females, the rate is almost 4:1! Any idea why is that happening? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "pedunson" <pedunson@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 6:07 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] new to the group hi everyone, Im new to the group. I live in the Philippines, a tropical country where we have abundant tropical fish. I used to be in the business of breeding fresh tropical fish 3 years ago. I was breeding goldfish, carps(koi), cyclids, barbs, and live bearers. My specialty although is in live bearers as I like the colors of these small fish and their swift swimming. Makes an aquarium very lively. I stopped the business 3 years ago when a strong typhoon and flood destroyed my fish farm. I still breed some live bearers in concrete ponds...swordtails and guppy mostly, as a hobby. Joined the group for sharing of ideas in connection to tropical fish. I would like to have an aquiruim some time, but would like to try saltwater fish for a change. The colors are simply magnificent!! I might be able to drop in a couple of days in a week as my work entails me to be in the field always. I'm a Farmer and Real Estate Consultant by profession. Good luck to all. ped ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((?> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<?((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27948	From: pedunson	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: new to the group

Hi Noura, we use different kinds of breeding technique here. depends on individual preference actually... one method is to put all the breeders in a boxed screen mesh(usually nylon or plastic net)wherein the box is eleveted about 2 inches from the floor of the pond.the size of the pond is about 4 x 8 feet.. and the size of the screen box is about 2 x 4 feet. we place the breeders inside and feed with high protein diet. The fries just drop underneat the screened box and swim outward, usually to the side of the pond. Most live-bearers attack or eat their fry, or anything smaller than them for that matter. This is the reason for the box..so that the adults will not eat or attack the smaller fish. Others use plastic straw to serve as hiding place for the fries. We seldom use aquatic plants as they harbor parasites. Plastic straws bundled together serves the purpose and is easier to clean. They scoop out the fries twice a day (early morning and late afternoon) and put them in separate tanks. The size of the fry or juvenile must be of the same size or else they attack the smaller fish, so usually 2 weeks collection from the breeding tank of fries is of the same size. Another method is isolating female in 1/2 gal tank and waiting for them bear the fries..like a "delivery room". this is tedious work as you have to separate the mature female from the fry once the mother is finished with the process of delivery or else she attacks the fries. Once separated, you place the fry in a separate tank. Here, the male guppies commands a high price that the female. the females are usually kept for future breeding. Our breeding ratio is usually 10 female to 1 male. We only get about 40% male. This has no "scietific proof" but someone tried a ratio of 1:1 and he came up with about 80% male. So if we follow the same procedure..maybe if you decrease the number of male breeders, you might decrease the number of male offsprings??!! We have opposite problem actually. regards, ped --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > Welcome on board Ped, I'm glad to have you in the group, and looking > forward to hear your breeding experiences, as I'm breeding Guppies as a > hobby too. Nothing big, just using a hatchery and a 2 G fry tank with box > filter. I move them to the 20 G community tank once they're big enough to > escape the AngelFish mouth! > But I always seem to have more male fries than females, the rate is almost > 4:1! Any idea why is that happening? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "pedunson" <pedunson@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 6:07 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] new to the group > > > hi everyone, > > Im new to the group. I live in the Philippines, a tropical country > where we have abundant tropical fish. I used to be in the business of > breeding fresh tropical fish 3 years ago. I was breeding goldfish, > carps(koi), cyclids, barbs, and live bearers. My specialty although > is in live bearers as I like the colors of these small fish and their > swift swimming. Makes an aquarium very lively. > > I stopped the business 3 years ago when a strong typhoon and flood > destroyed my fish farm. I still breed some live bearers in concrete > ponds...swordtails and guppy mostly, as a hobby. > > Joined the group for sharing of ideas in connection to tropical fish. > I would like to have an aquiruim some time, but would like to try > saltwater fish for a change. The colors are simply magnificent!! > > I might be able to drop in a couple of days in a week as my work > entails me to be in the field always. I'm a Farmer and Real Estate > Consultant by profession. > > Good luck to all. > > ped > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((?> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<? ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27949	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water

For small tanks, use a turkey baster to suction waste and water out of the tank instead of a siphon like a tiny gravel vacuum. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water What is the turkey baster method for changing water, BTW? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Walker" <playnwifsnot@ <mailto:playnwifsnot%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Betta Maintenance, was: Well Water >I have actually known a few people to do betta water > changes by the turkey baster method.Its actually > pretty easy to do, i watched them do it, although I > never partaked in changing my betta's water that way. > > My last betta lived 4.5 years, got a water change 90% > of his life every 2 weeks, and he got a 50% water > change. But then again I kept him with no gravel as it > was easier to clean his tank that way. A few months > before he died I started changing his water weekly and > did about a 20-25% water change then. Then a few > months ago he got fin rot, he got a 15% water change > daily to refreshen his water as he was being medicated > but he still died. He was a troopr though, and I still > look at the shelf he was on to see him. Habits are > hard to break. > > This new betta is now living in a gallon eclipse > tank, and is getting a 15% change weekly. I do have a > sand substrate in his tank, along with a heater as 6 > gallons is harder to keep warm than the little 2 > gallon my other betta was in. It has been up and > running about a month now, he is living happily with 4 > MTS, and 3 shrimps (1 blue, 1 bumblebee and one > ghost). Its a happy little tank if I do say so myself > :) > > ~Melissa > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27950	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy breeding (was: New to the Group)

I can't find a logical explanation for what you mentioned, less male breeders may increase the ratio of female fry? I'm planning to decrease the males anyway, because they're exhausting the females, I'm sending them to the fish store 2-4 weeks later when they grow big tails. Let's see if it will really increase the female fry! I doubt it though! A book says that the breeding ratio is usually 1male:4females, it didn't mention anything about the fry sexes. As for my method of breeding, I use a clear plastic hatchery that I place inside the 20G, floating , it's (4*5 inches), with bars that rise 1 inch above the buttom. I put the female in the hatchery when I see her really big with a dark dot behind the anal fin, or when I start noticing fry swimming in the 20 G tank (those are the babies who managed to escape and hide behind plants and filters, not for longer unfortunatly). when the female finishes delivery I get her out of the hatchery and put the babies in the 2G fry tank directly. I never put a pregnant female in the hatchery early, I don't mind not being present at the right time to notice the delivery starting in the 20G, the mum's comfort is more important to me, as I'm a mother myself! lol. Besides, I don't have access to live food, worms, etc. So the fry will make up for that. Sorry if someone didn't like this, but guppies can and will breed anywhere wheather we liked it or not, and we can't always have room for all the offspring. After moving the fry to the 2G, you know the rest of the story, I mentioned it in my previous email. I usually feed them the same adult food, they seem to take it easily since day 2 or 3. I don't feed them egg yolk because it causes turbidity in the water. And when I feed them with sinking protein granules, I drop the granules over a small glass plate placed right on the gravel, to prevent them from rotting in the gravel. They to grow slowly, due to the small size I suppose. buth once they're moved to the 20 G , again, it's like a burst of growth! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "pedunson" <pedunson@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:11 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new to the group Hi Noura, we use different kinds of breeding technique here. depends on individual preference actually... one method is to put all the breeders in a boxed screen mesh(usually nylon or plastic net)wherein the box is eleveted about 2 inches from the floor of the pond.the size of the pond is about 4 x 8 feet.. and the size of the screen box is about 2 x 4 feet. we place the breeders inside and feed with high protein diet. The fries just drop underneat the screened box and swim outward, usually to the side of the pond. Most live-bearers attack or eat their fry, or anything smaller than them for that matter. This is the reason for the box..so that the adults will not eat or attack the smaller fish. Others use plastic straw to serve as hiding place for the fries. We seldom use aquatic plants as they harbor parasites. Plastic straws bundled together serves the purpose and is easier to clean. They scoop out the fries twice a day (early morning and late afternoon) and put them in separate tanks. The size of the fry or juvenile must be of the same size or else they attack the smaller fish, so usually 2 weeks collection from the breeding tank of fries is of the same size. Another method is isolating female in 1/2 gal tank and waiting for them bear the fries..like a "delivery room". this is tedious work as you have to separate the mature female from the fry once the mother is finished with the process of delivery or else she attacks the fries. Once separated, you place the fry in a separate tank. Here, the male guppies commands a high price that the female. the females are usually kept for future breeding. Our breeding ratio is usually 10 female to 1 male. We only get about 40% male. This has no "scietific proof" but someone tried a ratio of 1:1 and he came up with about 80% male. So if we follow the same procedure..maybe if you decrease the number of male breeders, you might decrease the number of male offsprings??!! We have opposite problem actually. regards, ped --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > Welcome on board Ped, I'm glad to have you in the group, and looking > forward to hear your breeding experiences, as I'm breeding Guppies as a > hobby too. Nothing big, just using a hatchery and a 2 G fry tank with box > filter. I move them to the 20 G community tank once they're big enough to > escape the AngelFish mouth! > But I always seem to have more male fries than females, the rate is almost > 4:1! Any idea why is that happening? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "pedunson" <pedunson@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 6:07 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] new to the group > > > hi everyone, > > Im new to the group. I live in the Philippines, a tropical country > where we have abundant tropical fish. I used to be in the business of > breeding fresh tropical fish 3 years ago. I was breeding goldfish, > carps(koi), cyclids, barbs, and live bearers. My specialty although > is in live bearers as I like the colors of these small fish and their > swift swimming. Makes an aquarium very lively. > > I stopped the business 3 years ago when a strong typhoon and flood > destroyed my fish farm. I still breed some live bearers in concrete > ponds...swordtails and guppy mostly, as a hobby. > > Joined the group for sharing of ideas in connection to tropical fish. > I would like to have an aquiruim some time, but would like to try > saltwater fish for a change. The colors are simply magnificent!! > > I might be able to drop in a couple of days in a week as my work > entails me to be in the field always. I'm a Farmer and Real Estate > Consultant by profession. > > Good luck to all. > > ped > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((?> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<? ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((?> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<?((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27951	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: new to the group

There appear to be many factors in determining sex ratios of fry. Some of these may interact with each other. This is an area that could do with more study. Some of the factors involved may include pH, temperature, and other water quality aspects. Plain old natural selection may also be involved, such as with your guppies. The males are more colorful, even in the wild, which will make them more vulnerable to predation. More males would be produced to ensure that there are enough to ensure the continuation of the species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new to the group Welcome on board Ped, I'm glad to have you in the group, and looking forward to hear your breeding experiences, as I'm breeding Guppies as a hobby too. Nothing big, just using a hatchery and a 2 G fry tank with box filter. I move them to the 20 G community tank once they're big enough to escape the AngelFish mouth! But I always seem to have more male fries than females, the rate is almost 4:1! Any idea why is that happening? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "pedunson" <pedunson@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 6:07 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] new to the group hi everyone, Im new to the group. I live in the Philippines, a tropical country where we have abundant tropical fish. I used to be in the business of breeding fresh tropical fish 3 years ago. I was breeding goldfish, carps(koi), cyclids, barbs, and live bearers. My specialty although is in live bearers as I like the colors of these small fish and their swift swimming. Makes an aquarium very lively. I stopped the business 3 years ago when a strong typhoon and flood destroyed my fish farm. I still breed some live bearers in concrete ponds...swordtails and guppy mostly, as a hobby. Joined the group for sharing of ideas in connection to tropical fish. I would like to have an aquiruim some time, but would like to try saltwater fish for a change. The colors are simply magnificent!! I might be able to drop in a couple of days in a week as my work entails me to be in the field always. I'm a Farmer and Real Estate Consultant by profession. Good luck to all. ped

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27952	From: Daniel Mundy	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: How long to establish a new filter?

Hi guys, This is my first post but I've been a member for quite a while. I have a 60L tank with a pair of Kribs. The other day I bought a new filter (internal sponge with power head) to replace a smaller one of the same type. I've left the old filter in, but was just wondering roughly how long it will take my new filter to establish with good bacteria? One other quick question, would you recommend I test water chemistry before or after my weekly PWC? Thanks, Daniel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27953	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: How long to establish a new filter?

It will take several weeks for the new filter to partially become established. They take a while since the existing filter system already has enough nitrifying bacteria growing on it to handle the bioload of the tank so there is no reason for more to grow very quickly. While N-bacteria can double their colony size in 1-2 days, they'll only do this when there is an increase in the bioload (or decrease in N-bacteria) that requires the growth in colony size. Will the old sponge fit in the new filter system? If you wanted to get the hardware of the old system out of your tank, without affecting the bio-filtration, you could just move the filter media from the old filter to the new filter so you would keep the N-bacteria. If the new system won't hold the filter media from the old system, then you could seed the new filter by squeezing the "juice" from the old filter into the new filter. You would still have to run both systems but could probably remove the old system after a couple of weeks once you seeded the new system. I do my testing prior to the PWC. It's also good to know the baseline parameters of your source/tap water so you will then be able to figure out how much of a decrease in nitrates you should see after a PWC. For example, if your tap water has nitrates of 10ppm (not uncommon in many areas) and your tank is up to 50ppm, then doing a 25% PWC will only lower the nitrates to 40ppm. If you have higher nitrates out of the tap, you either would have to do more frequent PWC's or start using live plants to help with nitrate reduction. Testing before and after your PWC will also show you the actual changes that take place so you can "learn" your tank better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Mundy Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 7:48 AM To: aquaticlife Subject: [AquaticLife] How long to establish a new filter? Hi guys, This is my first post but I've been a member for quite a while. I have a 60L tank with a pair of Kribs. The other day I bought a new filter (internal sponge with power head) to replace a smaller one of the same type. I've left the old filter in, but was just wondering roughly how long it will take my new filter to establish with good bacteria? One other quick question, would you recommend I test water chemistry before or after my weekly PWC? Thanks, Daniel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1455 - Release Date: 5/19/2008 5:04 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27954	From: babsdvs	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge

Lenny: I was looking at the pictures on your blog where you showed how you cut an H on the black plastic back of the cartridge to remove the carbon. Does that mean that you have a flap on the top and the bottom? And after bending the flap back and forth, doesn't it eventually just break off? I have some new cartridges and also two aged ones in the filter and suppose I should practice this surgery on one of the new ones rather than ruining one that has bacteria in it? Barbara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27955	From: oceanmagic	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: flowerhorns

Hi guys, Does anyone have any flowerhorns on the list ? I'm looking at buying one would like some advice from others :-) cheers Jenni [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27956	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: flowerhorns

Hi Jenni, I have to preface this by saying that I am totally against the hybridization of all cichlids. Below are the general comments I make about Hybrids and is not focused at you so much as the general idea of these fish. There are thousands of cichlids in their natural forms that all have something to offer us in their looks, breeding strategy, and other behaviors. I see no need to force two different species to breed and make a mess. In the East and then later in the U.S. it was a brilliant Ponzi scheme. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme%c2%a0) The originators of these hybrids, like ponzi scheme originators, made these fish and sold them for thousands of dollars each. They took off in the East and replaced Guppies and Discus in many breeding facilities in several countries. Then the bottom fell out on them and the former Guppy and Discus breeders had thousands of these fish to get rid of. And had to start over on Guppies, Discus or other fish. I witnessed similar things happen here when stores and people purchased these to make money fast. Now I see single tanks, 20 gallon with one single Giant unhappy fish in them. They sit in the stores for quite a period of time and end up losing money for the stores as floor space - tank space cost money in retail or wholesale. On aquabid I see 4 or 5 pages of flowerhorns and people bid on maybe 4? When people get these with the intention of breeding them they end up with hundreds of fry/fish that they need to get rid of as no one will pay the exorbitant retail prices. At best they commonly sell for a few dollars each as young fish. If you choose to get only one and not breed then you more often than not have one big fish and no other fish in the tank. They are very aggressive and often kill tank mates, even their own "kind". I love cichlids, belong to two Cichlid only clubs and keep about 20 tanks in my living room and all but two have cichlids in them. I find these fish fascinating and beautiful and enjoy them in their natural form. Their breeding behavior and strategy for raising fry is fascinating. Here is a web page and article by Dr. Ron Coleman about Hybrids. http://cichlidresearch.com/hybrids.html Here are some resources for cichlids. http://www.cichlidae.info http://www.cichlid.org/ http://www.duboisi.com/forum/ http://www.duboisi.com/forum/cichlid_clubs.php Cichlids are great, give em a try if you have not before. -Mike Hi guys, Does anyone have any flowerhorns on the list ? I'm looking at buying one would like some advice from others :-) cheers Jenni -----Original Message----- From: oceanmagic <ocean-magic@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 20 May 2008 5:42 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] flowerhorns Hi guys, Does anyone have any flowerhorns on the list ? I'm looking at buying one would like some advice from others :-) cheers Jenni [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27957	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge

Once I cut the H, which is the best cut to make to open up the filter to remove the carbon while still maintaining adequate filter frame strength, there is no real need to bend them back and forth. It's very pliable plastic so all I do is just open up the bottom half of the H so I can tuck an extra piece of filter floss pad in there so it holds it in place when I slide the cartridge back down into the slot in the reservoir. As you saw from my blog/photos, I use the blue/white kind which is much thicker and better than the thin blue filter floss pad in the cartridge. I would save your new ones with the fresh carbon for the event of when you might need to run fresh carbon... like after a medicinal treatment, etc. It will only take a minute to cut the H and dump the old carbon and then you can put the cartridge right back into the filter system so all of the N-bacteria living on the filter floss pad will still be there. You will lose some N-bacteria that were living on the carbon but you'll have enough on the filter floss pad so they will quickly multiply to keep a mini-cycle to a bare minimum.. if at all. You also have N-bacteria living in the gravel and on all surface areas in the tank so the ones you throw away with the carbon will be only 20-40 percent of the overall N-bacteria that you have so your remaining bacteria... especially those on the filter floss pad, will multiply in 24-48 hours to handle the job of the ones that got throw away. I see that you have two ages filters in the system so you could do surgery on one now and wait a couple of days and then do the second filter cartridge. This would further minimize any possibility of a mini-cycle. I don't think you'll have a problem at all.. especially doing only one cartridge at a time. Once you've done both of them, you will have increased your filtration to a much higher capacity since you won't have to worry about that one thin filter floss pad on the cartridge getting clogged. Now you will have four layers of filter floss pads. The back cartridge will get clogged quicker so when it starts to slow down the water flow, turn off the filter, remove the back cartridge for cleaning and move the front cartridge to the rear. This will keep one fully cycled filter cartridge in your system at all times.. even when you clean the other one good. Your other option would be to get a microscope and some microscopic tweezers and pick each of the thousands of N-bacteria off of the carbon and transplant them to the filter floss. JUST KIDDDDIINNNNNGGGG! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 6:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge Lenny: I was looking at the pictures on your blog where you showed how you cut an H on the black plastic back of the cartridge to remove the carbon. Does that mean that you have a flap on the top and the bottom? And after bending the flap back and forth, doesn't it eventually just break off? I have some new cartridges and also two aged ones in the filter and suppose I should practice this surgery on one of the new ones rather than ruining one that has bacteria in it? Barbara No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1456 - Release Date: 5/20/2008 6:45 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27958	From: sullllly	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: How long to establish a new filter?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Mundy" <daniel@...> wrote: >It usually takes about a month depending on the amount of waste. In the future so you know dont throw out old filter material just put the new next to the old so the bacteria can jump over to the new. If you have gravel there probably is some bacteria that will come up from that to colonize your new filter. So I am guessing that your filter would become colonized faster then if it were a brand new set up. As far as testing before or after the water change I would do before. Monitor ammonia,nitrites and nitrates. Change some water if you start seeing any sign of the first two and in the end when you have no more of the first two keep nitrates below 40 ppm with water change. > Hi guys, > > This is my first post but I've been a member for quite a while. I have a 60L > tank with a pair of Kribs. The other day I bought a new filter (internal > sponge with power head) to replace a smaller one of the same type. I've left > the old filter in, but was just wondering roughly how long it will take my > new filter to establish with good bacteria? > > One other quick question, would you recommend I test water chemistry before > or after my weekly PWC? > > Thanks, > Daniel > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27959	From: stevesza	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: OT: Mail Problems at Yahoo!

Some of you trying to send messages to this and other groups and having a Non-Delivery Report (NDR) coming back that the message could not be delivered. The last few lines of this NDR look like this (slightly edited to protect the innocent): AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on 5/20/2008 10:45 PM There was a SMTP communication problem with the recipient's email server. Please contact your system administrator. <yourmailserver.com #5.5.0 smtp;553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)> After researching this for another group I found that this is a widespread event and Yahoo claims to be working on the issue. There appears to be a large number of people from all over the world complaining about this issue, so you are not alone. If you do need to post a new message, or send a reply, I am afraid you must go through the drudgery of logging into Yahoo and using the inefficient web interface to post your message until this problem has been resolved. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27960	From: Corey S. Flynn	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: New to the group. New Pond w/ gold fish

Hi, I'm new to the group. We built a pond a few weeks ago. We have a fountain, water lilies, water lettuce, radish looking floating plants, and three "tunnel" like items for the fish to hide in/under. We're having a problem with raccoons and algae. Also, we recently had a hot spell here in the Bay Area. I was very worried the fish wouldn't do well but they seem to be ok. Any suggestions re: the raccoons and algae? Thank you, Corey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27961	From: pedunson	Date: 5/20/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy breeding (was: New to the Group)

At first, I thought that was a silly idea as we have been used to breeding with a 10:1 ratio on live-bearers. Making a 1:1 ratio will create a lot of fights among male's in the breeding cage, not to mention the females being bothered always. The 4:1 ratio might just be the right propotion to ensure healthy breeders. We just thought it would save us space in our breeding cage if we streched the ratio a little more. Propotionately, it should increase the number of fry if you increase the number of female breeders. Steve has a point, it all depends on a lot of parameters. There's not much study being done on this area though. We usually separate the males and the females when they are at their juvenile stage(when you can distinguish the sexes already) as guppies tend to breed at an early stage. Separating them ensures faster growth as they will not be bothered by their breeding instincts and concentrate on their growing. You will notice their tails grow bigger and faster when separated to the female. Guppy's usually stay on the upper part of the aquarium or fish pond. They are comfortable when they stay in this part of the pond. They eat faster when the food is floating. Swordtails stay in the lower part of the pond, and is comfortable in eating on the floor area of the pond. This is my observation, correct me if im wrong... ped --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > I can't find a logical explanation for what you mentioned, less male > breeders may increase the ratio of female fry? > I'm planning to decrease the males anyway, because they're exhausting the > females, I'm sending them to the fish store 2-4 weeks later when they grow > big tails. Let's see if it will really increase the female fry! I doubt it > though! > > A book says that the breeding ratio is usually 1male:4females, it didn't > mention anything about the fry sexes. > > As for my method of breeding, I use a clear plastic hatchery that I place > inside the 20G, floating , it's (4*5 inches), with bars that rise 1 inch > above the buttom. > I put the female in the hatchery when I see her really big with a dark dot > behind the anal fin, or when I start noticing fry swimming in the 20 G tank > (those are the babies who managed to escape and hide behind plants and > filters, not for longer unfortunatly). > > when the female finishes delivery I get her out of the hatchery and put the > babies in the 2G fry tank directly. > > I never put a pregnant female in the hatchery early, I don't mind not being > present at the right time to notice the delivery starting in the 20G, the > mum's comfort is more important to me, as I'm a mother myself! lol. > Besides, I don't have access to live food, worms, etc. So the fry will make > up for that. Sorry if someone didn't like this, but guppies can and will > breed anywhere wheather we liked it or not, and we can't always have room > for all the offspring. > > > After moving the fry to the 2G, you know the rest of the story, I mentioned > it in my previous email. > > I usually feed them the same adult food, they seem to take it easily since > day 2 or 3. I don't feed them egg yolk because it causes turbidity in the > water. > And when I feed them with sinking protein granules, I drop the granules over > a small glass plate placed right on the gravel, to prevent them from rotting > in the gravel. > They to grow slowly, due to the small size I suppose. buth once they're > moved to the 20 G , again, it's like a burst of growth! > > Noura > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27962	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy breeding

I don't know about swordtails, but as for the guppies, Yes, they stay much more at the top than the buttom, they leave the space downthere for the buttom feeders and the tetras (I've just noticed that these fellows are always in the middle of the tank!). I read that guppy females are able of breeding at the age of two months, the book also mentions that it's best to separate sexes until the females are at least 6 months old. what do you think of that? In my small fry tank, I never noticed a pregnant female before the age of 4-5 months, even that seldom happens. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "pedunson" <pedunson@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 9:19 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy breeding (was: New to the Group) At first, I thought that was a silly idea as we have been used to breeding with a 10:1 ratio on live-bearers. Making a 1:1 ratio will create a lot of fights among male's in the breeding cage, not to mention the females being bothered always. The 4:1 ratio might just be the right propotion to ensure healthy breeders. We just thought it would save us space in our breeding cage if we streched the ratio a little more. Propotionately, it should increase the number of fry if you increase the number of female breeders. Steve has a point, it all depends on a lot of parameters. There's not much study being done on this area though. We usually separate the males and the females when they are at their juvenile stage(when you can distinguish the sexes already) as guppies tend to breed at an early stage. Separating them ensures faster growth as they will not be bothered by their breeding instincts and concentrate on their growing. You will notice their tails grow bigger and faster when separated to the female. Guppy's usually stay on the upper part of the aquarium or fish pond. They are comfortable when they stay in this part of the pond. They eat faster when the food is floating. Swordtails stay in the lower part of the pond, and is comfortable in eating on the floor area of the pond. This is my observation, correct me if im wrong... ped

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27963	From: oceanmagic	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: flowerhorns

Hi Mike thanks for your comments & info...... yes indeed I have only cichlid here (besides the bottom feeders) African & American......I only thought of the flowerhorn after seeing one in the shop the other day ... being in Queensland Australia, I thought these fish were rare here & was very interested ... But I am careful hence the questions ....I'm not into breeding in any shape or form just keeping the few tanks for my own pleasure & like the unusual type fish .... thats why the flowerhorn caught my attention.... Cheers Jenni ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] flowerhorns Hi Jenni, I have to preface this by saying that I am totally against the hybridization of all cichlids. Below are the general comments I make about Hybrids and is not focused at you so much as the general idea of these fish. There are thousands of cichlids in their natural forms that all have something to offer us in their looks, breeding strategy, and other behaviors. I see no need to force two different species to breed and make a mess. In the East and then later in the U.S. it was a brilliant Ponzi scheme. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme ) The originators of these hybrids, like ponzi scheme originators, made these fish and sold them for thousands of dollars each. They took off in the East and replaced Guppies and Discus in many breeding facilities in several countries. Then the bottom fell out on them and the former Guppy and Discus breeders had thousands of these fish to get rid of. And had to start over on Guppies, Discus or other fish. I witnessed similar things happen here when stores and people purchased these to make money fast. Now I see single tanks, 20 gallon with one single Giant unhappy fish in them. They sit in the stores for quite a period of time and end up losing money for the stores as floor space - tank space cost money in retail or wholesale. On aquabid I see 4 or 5 pages of flowerhorns and people bid on maybe 4? When people get these with the intention of breeding them they end up with hundreds of fry/fish that they need to get rid of as no one will pay the exorbitant retail prices. At best they commonly sell for a few dollars each as young fish. If you choose to get only one and not breed then you more often than not have one big fish and no other fish in the tank. They are very aggressive and often kill tank mates, even their own "kind". I love cichlids, belong to two Cichlid only clubs and keep about 20 tanks in my living room and all but two have cichlids in them. I find these fish fascinating and beautiful and enjoy them in their natural form. Their breeding behavior and strategy for raising fry is fascinating. Here is a web page and article by Dr. Ron Coleman about Hybrids. http://cichlidresearch.com/hybrids.html Here are some resources for cichlids. http://www.cichlidae.info http://www.cichlid.org/ http://www.duboisi.com/forum/ http://www.duboisi.com/forum/cichlid_clubs.php Cichlids are great, give em a try if you have not before. -Mike Hi guys, Does anyone have any flowerhorns on the list ? I'm looking at buying one would like some advice from others :-) cheers Jenni -----Original Message----- From: oceanmagic <ocean-magic@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 20 May 2008 5:42 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] flowerhorns Hi guys, Does anyone have any flowerhorns on the list ? I'm looking at buying one would like some advice from others :-) cheers Jenni [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27964	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: How long to establish a new filter?

Daniel, You should need to know your water chemistry before you do your weekly PWC's. At this same time, you should at least periodically test your tap water (preferably before doing your PWC), as Lenny suggests, to get an idea of the chemistry of the new water you're using as a replacement (it just may be similar to the water you are removing, and/or at times there may be that possibility of it being worse). Even though most tap water is usually relatively free of by-products that can be found in the nitrogen cycle, this will get you in the habit of reverting to the source, which may someday be where a suddenly unexplained water chemistry problem might stem from after doing a PWC, and where you would then realize where to pinpoint it. Until you get used to how much your particular bioload affects your water parameters weekly, and how much your PWC regimen corrects these elements, I would recommend that you ALSO ttest your water sfter your weekly PWC's. This will give you an idea of whether (or not) you are changing out enough water for the waste products produced during the week, i.e., while you may feel safe with changing out 15% of the water weekly, a quick check of your parameters after doing your PWC may indicate that you need to change out 25%. By the same token, if you're not yet experienced enough to know whether your bioload is excessive for your size tank, this will fast alert you to that fact. Like anything else, once you get a feel for the proper amount needed with your PWC's, you're well ahead of the game and should no longer need to retest your water after the water changes. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Mundy" <daniel@...> wrote: > > Hi guys, > > This is my first post but I've been a member for quite a while. I have a 60L > tank with a pair of Kribs. The other day I bought a new filter (internal > sponge with power head) to replace a smaller one of the same type. I've left > the old filter in, but was just wondering roughly how long it will take my > new filter to establish with good bacteria? > > One other quick question, would you recommend I test water chemistry before > or after my weekly PWC? > > Thanks, > Daniel > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27965	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: question

Hi Caroline, What you are thinking, and what Lenny is substantiating should work out well -- this effectively will keep the air on the surface of you water, insde the bags, semi-pressurized so that the room air with paint fumes cannot access your tank water. You should emphasize to the painters that its imperative for any aquarium pumps to be running at all times. A word of caution, since I'm not exactly sure of what you mean by "outside air," if you're living in an area of the county which is still experiencing rather cool weather for this time of year -- do not under any circumstances draw air from the outdoors. This can and will slowly cool your tank water down, especially as these tanks will now be insulated from the temperature of the room (being enveloped within a bag of cool air) not to mention the cooler air constantly rising up through the water column -- and can possibly overwhelm your heaters' capacity. If you need to be concerned about any possible cooler weather in your area, you will need to draw air from another (distant) part of the house that will not contain the effects of paint fumes and which will still stabilize your temperature. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Good. You are thinking on the same track that I was going to lead you > towards. > > What you can do is cover the tanks with plastic garbage bags... probably a > white or opaque so the fish would at least have ambient lighting.. unless > you have your lights on timers. > > Cover the entire set up... tank, filtration, etc. and then tape the bag > around the bottom of the tank so there is very little chance of any room air > getting into the tank. It's OK if it's not sealed 100% because you will be > moving your air pump to a safe place outside and running the air lines into > the tanks so there will be positive pressure inside the tank with the > "fresh" air constantly being pumped into the tank. The extra fresh air will > need to escape through the gaps where you didn't seal the bags 100%, > otherwise the bags would blow up like a balloon and possibly open somewhere > that you didn't want them to open. Having the small gaps, like where the > air lines and electrical cords come up under the bag, will provide a way for > the extra fresh air to escape and this will also keep any room air, with > paint DOC's, from entering the tanks. > > You should also run some fresh carbon in your filters during this entire > painting process... just in case. > > Make sure your painters turn off the room lights at night when they leave so > the fish have some "night time" too. No need to overfeed prior to, or even > feed the fish prior to your endeavor as fish can easily make it a week or so > without eating.. in most cases... and you'll only be gone five. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of waves02 > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 10:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] question > > two 15 gallon tanks.. I have bio filters in each tank.. air wands.. I was > thinking of getting air lines to the outside air... with no fumes.. setting > up the pumps outside.. would that help. I have just 4 fish..but, they are > like pets to me.. thank you.. caroline oh.. am thinking of staying home > during the time they do the main living room..where fish are.. and then > leaving for a couple of days. > > At 11:07 AM 5/18/2008, you wrote: > >The paint fumes can/will harm/kill your fish. > > > >If you can't take the fish with you when you leave, will you be coming > >back to the house every day to check on them? > > > >There are steps you could take to protect the fish from the paint fumes > >but tell us more about your tanks. You said "small" but what size? What > >kind of filtration on each? Live plants? Air stones? > > > >Lenny Vasbinder > >Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of waves02 > >Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 9:30 AM > >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: [AquaticLife] question > > > >I just have two tanks... small.. the house is going to be painted.. we > >will be away for five days. how do I protect my fish from fumes.. if I > >am not there? caroline thank you > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >No virus found in this outgoing message. > >Checked by AVG. > >Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1453 - Release Date: > >5/18/2008 > >9:31 AM > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1454 - Release Date: 5/19/2008 > 7:44 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27966	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group. New Pond w/ gold fish

Hi Corey, Let's take one problem at a time. As for the raccoons, part of any possible solution to them not being able to access your fish has already been pre-determined in the way you've constructed your pond. Usually, raccoons do not like going into the water all the way; they will certainly do so partially to get at their meal. For this reason, the pond depth would be best at a minumum of around 3'. Additionally, to discourage and prevent raccoons from getting at your fish, the pond sides proper (aside from bog areas) should never be of a shallow angle enabling raccoons to partially wade in to get at your fish if in shallower areas. A much steeper angle of drop-off at the pond's edges is always preferred for this reason when raccoons need to be considered. Employing those fish tunnels (often marketed as "Koi Kastles"), as you mentioned you're doing, will help in preventing raccoons' access to the fish. As you may know, there are two types -- a solid one and an aluminum-framed one covered with mess that still allows you to see the fish while affording them protection, but the initial construction of the pond dictates how vulnerable the fish are in any case. If the fish are so compromised, there are various devices available designed to discourage raccoons and other predators. There is an electronically- operated (by battery) motion detector device called a "Scarecrow," which sets off a noisy alarm, at the same time flashing a light beam and operating a stream of water from your garden hose which is connected to it. For more determined raccoons, there is a kit of low fencing which is activated with a small energy electrical circuit so as to give the raccoon a mild shock, not enough to harm it but generally enough to discourage it enough to move on to other "hunting" areas. As for algae, again some of its control is dictated by the ponds' construction; actually this time depending on where it was built in the yard in relation to how much sun it receives during the day. While it generally requires an average of 6 hours minimum sunlight for water lilies to bloom, you should ideally not have too much more than 8 hours of direct sunlight. In any case, to control algae a pond should have about 2/3 of the surface covered with some type of plants, be it water lilies, water hyacinths, water lettuce, Salvinia, Azolla, Duck Weed, Botswana, Neptunia, etc., or any combination thereof. A sufficient amount of submersed plants (Anacharis and or Hornwort, etc.), used in concert with the above will help starve out algae, using the nutrients that the algae would normally thrive on. For suspended algae (green water), in cases where this has already gotten out of control (and for continued control of it), there are several "U.V. Clarifiers" (ultra- violet "filter" units) available which will kill off this algae enabling your filter to screen it out. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Corey S. Flynn" <flycorey@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I'm new to the group. We built a pond a few weeks ago. We have a > fountain, water lilies, water lettuce, radish looking floating plants, > and three "tunnel" like items for the fish to hide in/under. > We're having a problem with raccoons and algae. > Also, we recently had a hot spell here in the Bay Area. I was very > worried the fish wouldn't do well but they seem to be ok. > Any suggestions re: the raccoons and algae? > Thank you, > Corey >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27967	From: willyspu	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group. New Pond w/ gold fish

Hi Cory, I live in the Bay Area also and yes the last couple of days of 90 plus heat was a good test for your pond. The previous comments about how your pond is constructed will help with both raccoons and the heat. However, in most of our suburban areas we are not "supposed" to dig our ponds lower than 18-24 inches or else they qualify as swimming pools and require pool permits. How large is your pond, dimensions and estimated gallons? Since it sounds like your pond is up and running and you probably don't want to dig it deeper or the sides steeper here are a few suggestions: Algae - Any pond will experience several algae "blooms" throughout the season. Depending on the number of plants, sunlight, feeding and water quality these blooms maybe hardly noticed or completely block out the pond. During these blooms try to limit excess food and make sure you do regular pwc (partial water changes). But it is also very important to have some water circulation. Blue and green stringy algae do not like to go on things where there is moving water. If you get totally frustrated and have a green bog looking pond, think twice about using any algaecide as it will usually wipe out your plants and good bacteria as well. Just try to keep the pond clean, reduce wastes, keep lots of water plants and the pond will begin to find its equilibrium point. Raccoons - They are a part of life in our area. You can put up any type of noise maker, lights or fence and they will find a way in. The sound of the waterfall and the smell of the pond attract them. Before you loose fish, plants and many good nights of sleep I suggest you invest in a large safe and humane animal trap like the Havahart traps. But be sure to get the large model. I am near Stanford University and have trapped 20+ raccoons in the last 8 years. I have relocated them to the other side of the coastal hills. It seams they come in groups about every 6 months. Use dry cat food and marshmallows to lead them into the trap, once trapped cover the trap with a tarp to calm the raccoon, place trap in truck or back of car (with cardboard and tarp under trap) and relocate to a nice new home. Feel free to email me off list to discuss this further. Good luck, Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Corey S. Flynn" <flycorey@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I'm new to the group. We built a pond a few weeks ago. We have a > fountain, water lilies, water lettuce, radish looking floating plants, > and three "tunnel" like items for the fish to hide in/under. > We're having a problem with raccoons and algae. > Also, we recently had a hot spell here in the Bay Area. I was very > worried the fish wouldn't do well but they seem to be ok. > Any suggestions re: the raccoons and algae? > Thank you, > Corey >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27968	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge

In a message dated 5/20/2008 10:23:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: It will only take a minute to cut the H and dump the old carbon and then you can put the cartridge right back into the filter system so all of the N-bacteria living on the filter floss pad will still be there. You will lose some N-bacteria that were living on the carbon but you'll have enough on the filter floss pad so they will quickly multiply to keep a mini-cycle to a bare minimum.. if at all. You also have N-bacteria living in the gravel and on all surface areas in the tank so the ones you throw away with the carbon will be only 20-40 percent of the overall N-bacteria that you have so your remaining bacteria... especially those on the filter floss pad, will multiply in 24-48 hours to handle the job of the ones that got throw away. Sorry to cut the thread, but au contraire about it taking one minute to cut the H. I tried using an exacto knife - nothing - I tried a very sharp steak knife - nothing - and then I dulled a sharp pocket knife by hacking at the plastic. I finally cracked the frame before I could make a cut. Are you sure I don't need a recriprocating or chain saw? Anyway I had a package of Aqua Tech filters that resemble and fit the same as the marineland brand. I was able to cut the H, dump the carbon, insert the poly stuff and put it in the filter. However, it was a new one and hopefully the other aged one and the gravel will keep me from a mini cycle. Argggh. Barbara **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27969	From: Carmen H	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge

I'm not sure why everyone's making this complicated...to remove the carbon from my cartridges, I just gently pull the blue floss away from the plastic frame where it's glued at the top and shake it out. If done dry, it comes out easily. When wet, it's a little messier and I always end up rinsing it to get it all. I don't worry about the bacteria, I figure the bio wheel(s) have enough to keep things going. This method leaves the pocket intact so that loose media or a bag of whatever can be inserted... I think we should start a letter writing campaign...Marineland used to sell a plastic frame that clamped around and supported whatever material you wanted to use. I still have a couple in use from a very old filter... I guess the marketing department clued in that mega-profit could be made on replacement media, much more than than on the original purchase price... Carmen

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27970	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge

What does 'mini-cycle' mean? Does it just mean that the N-bacteria are less in number than the tank bio-load needs? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 5:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge Once I cut the H, which is the best cut to make to open up the filter to remove the carbon while still maintaining adequate filter frame strength, there is no real need to bend them back and forth. It's very pliable plastic so all I do is just open up the bottom half of the H so I can tuck an extra piece of filter floss pad in there so it holds it in place when I slide the cartridge back down into the slot in the reservoir. As you saw from my blog/photos, I use the blue/white kind which is much thicker and better than the thin blue filter floss pad in the cartridge. I would save your new ones with the fresh carbon for the event of when you might need to run fresh carbon... like after a medicinal treatment, etc. It will only take a minute to cut the H and dump the old carbon and then you can put the cartridge right back into the filter system so all of the N-bacteria living on the filter floss pad will still be there. You will lose some N-bacteria that were living on the carbon but you'll have enough on the filter floss pad so they will quickly multiply to keep a mini-cycle to a bare minimum.. if at all. You also have N-bacteria living in the gravel and on all surface areas in the tank so the ones you throw away with the carbon will be only 20-40 percent of the overall N-bacteria that you have so your remaining bacteria... especially those on the filter floss pad, will multiply in 24-48 hours to handle the job of the ones that got throw away. I see that you have two ages filters in the system so you could do surgery on one now and wait a couple of days and then do the second filter cartridge. This would further minimize any possibility of a mini-cycle. I don't think you'll have a problem at all.. especially doing only one cartridge at a time. Once you've done both of them, you will have increased your filtration to a much higher capacity since you won't have to worry about that one thin filter floss pad on the cartridge getting clogged. Now you will have four layers of filter floss pads. The back cartridge will get clogged quicker so when it starts to slow down the water flow, turn off the filter, remove the back cartridge for cleaning and move the front cartridge to the rear. This will keep one fully cycled filter cartridge in your system at all times.. even when you clean the other one good. Your other option would be to get a microscope and some microscopic tweezers and pick each of the thousands of N-bacteria off of the carbon and transplant them to the filter floss. JUST KIDDDDIINNNNNGGGG! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27971	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge

Yes. A full cycle would start with NO nitrifying bacteria and usually takes several weeks to a couple of months to grow sufficient numbers of the various N-bacteria to handle the bioload. A mini-cycle might only take a day to a week, depending on how many of the N-bacteria were saved. When doing filter maintenance, which is where most of the N-bacteria live since there is so much surface area contained in foam, filter floss pads, etc., it's important to try and preserve as many of the N-bacteria as possible. This is even more important in overstocked tanks... a common situation... and in new tanks where the N-bacteria colonies may not have grown to full size. I have a detailed article about "Filter Maintenance & Cleaning", that I wrote a few years ago and I have a copy of it hosted on my blog (link on the right side under article titles and also under Labels). I also have a couple of "Filter Profiles" showing each step that I do in cleaning the filter system for a canister filter and an HOB (hang on back) filter. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 6:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge What does 'mini-cycle' mean? Does it just mean that the N-bacteria are less in number than the tank bio-load needs? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 5:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge Once I cut the H, which is the best cut to make to open up the filter to remove the carbon while still maintaining adequate filter frame strength, there is no real need to bend them back and forth. It's very pliable plastic so all I do is just open up the bottom half of the H so I can tuck an extra piece of filter floss pad in there so it holds it in place when I slide the cartridge back down into the slot in the reservoir. As you saw from my blog/photos, I use the blue/white kind which is much thicker and better than the thin blue filter floss pad in the cartridge. I would save your new ones with the fresh carbon for the event of when you might need to run fresh carbon... like after a medicinal treatment, etc. It will only take a minute to cut the H and dump the old carbon and then you can put the cartridge right back into the filter system so all of the N-bacteria living on the filter floss pad will still be there. You will lose some N-bacteria that were living on the carbon but you'll have enough on the filter floss pad so they will quickly multiply to keep a mini-cycle to a bare minimum.. if at all. You also have N-bacteria living in the gravel and on all surface areas in the tank so the ones you throw away with the carbon will be only 20-40 percent of the overall N-bacteria that you have so your remaining bacteria... especially those on the filter floss pad, will multiply in 24-48 hours to handle the job of the ones that got throw away. I see that you have two ages filters in the system so you could do surgery on one now and wait a couple of days and then do the second filter cartridge. This would further minimize any possibility of a mini-cycle. I don't think you'll have a problem at all.. especially doing only one cartridge at a time. Once you've done both of them, you will have increased your filtration to a much higher capacity since you won't have to worry about that one thin filter floss pad on the cartridge getting clogged. Now you will have four layers of filter floss pads. The back cartridge will get clogged quicker so when it starts to slow down the water flow, turn off the filter, remove the back cartridge for cleaning and move the front cartridge to the rear. This will keep one fully cycled filter cartridge in your system at all times.. even when you clean the other one good. Your other option would be to get a microscope and some microscopic tweezers and pick each of the thousands of N-bacteria off of the carbon and transplant them to the filter floss. JUST KIDDDDIINNNNNGGGG! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1458 - Release Date: 5/21/2008 7:21 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27972	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group. New Pond w/ gold fish

The algae is a natural part of ponding. When your plants start growing and utilizing the available nutrients in the pond, the algae will start to lessen until it is gone. I'm not sure exactly where you are, but my experience in the bay area on a few trips out there has shown me that there can be a great deal of variation in the weather depending on your location, so if you have a winter, where the temperatures go under 50 degrees for a length of time, you'll experience your plants going dormant, or losing them, and the algae will start again when the weather gets warmer. The raccoons, on the other hand, can be quite the problem. However, if you have steep sides in the pond, they will eventually give up trying to catch fish and plants and go somewhere the pickings are easier. I do not speak from a position of experience, however, but maybe someone else on the list will give you a "sure-fire method" of ridding yourself at raccoons. They are pretty smart critters, however. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Corey S. Flynn Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to the group. New Pond w/ gold fish Hi, I'm new to the group. We built a pond a few weeks ago. We have a fountain, water lilies, water lettuce, radish looking floating plants, and three "tunnel" like items for the fish to hide in/under. We're having a problem with raccoons and algae. Also, we recently had a hot spell here in the Bay Area. I was very worried the fish wouldn't do well but they seem to be ok. Any suggestions re: the raccoons and algae? Thank you, Corey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27973	From: pedunson	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy breeding

We separate the sexes as early as one month age. They are about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch already. The males can be distinguised by the collored tail or back, the ones that doesnt have colored tail or back are usually female. This is a continous process every morning until they reach the 2nd month. On the 2nd month you will notice every morning that the males go after the females and sometimes fight among themselves. This means that they are starting to breed. On the 2nd month all males and females are already separated. At 2.5 mos I sell the males already to fish wholesalers who in turn supply the petshops or fishshops. The females are left behind and used as future breeders. We start breeding them as 4-5 months, but only after careful selection. Usually out of a hundred female, we only get 30%.. those that did not pass the selection are sold "feeders". It is in this area of selection that we are very particular. We breed them until the 2nd generation only. On the succeeding generations, we infuse new males to a selection of females. If you continue to breed without selecting the females and infusing "new blood". . the body and tails of the male are getting smaller. Also you will notice different color paterns coming out of the males. In the females you will notice different color paterns in their tails as well as different body colors. May I ask how the breeding and trading of tropical fish is being done in your place? Also the price range if its not asking too much? Just want to know the system... ped --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > I don't know about swordtails, but as for the guppies, Yes, they stay much > more at the top than the buttom, they leave the space downthere for the > buttom feeders and the tetras (I've just noticed that these fellows are > always in the middle of the tank!). > > I read that guppy females are able of breeding at the age of two months, the > book also mentions that it's best to separate sexes until the females are at > least 6 months old. what do you think of that? > In my small fry tank, I never noticed a pregnant female before the age of > 4-5 months, even that seldom happens. > > Noura > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27974	From: pedunson	Date: 5/21/2008
Subject: Re: swordtails and molly's

Have you seen a 50 gal aquaruim full of swordtails and black molly's? The swordtails are red-orange and the molly as black...put in white sand and a white background..the contrasting color of the fish seems to complement the whole aquarium on a white background. Simple, but very noticable. The fish are also easy to take care. Should be an all male aquaruim for easy maintenance though. ped --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > I don't know about swordtails, but as for the guppies, Yes, they stay much > more at the top than the buttom, they leave the space downthere for the > buttom feeders and the tetras (I've just noticed that these fellows are > always in the middle of the tank!). > > I read that guppy females are able of breeding at the age of two months, the > book also mentions that it's best to separate sexes until the females are at > least 6 months old. what do you think of that? > In my small fry tank, I never noticed a pregnant female before the age of > 4-5 months, even that seldom happens. > > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27975	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/22/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy breeding

Hi Ped, Your fish surely grew MUCH faster than mine, of course a 2 G tank won't give them the proper space to grow fast. As for the breeding and trading in my country, I don't really know a lot about it, but I know that most of the sold Guppies here are bred inside the country, in small cement ponds, they're sold to the hobbists fairly cheap , about half a dollar for one fish. The imported ones are slightly more expensive, about one to one and a half dollar, you can tell the difference from exotic and phosphoric colors. I always find both males and females in fish shops. I found the imported Guppies capable of living as good as the local ones, to my surprise! Now , after reading your message, I finally knew why I'm getting some almost colorless, small tailed males in my fry tank, thanks for the information. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "pedunson" <pedunson@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 4:42 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy breeding We separate the sexes as early as one month age. They are about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch already. The males can be distinguised by the collored tail or back, the ones that doesnt have colored tail or back are usually female. This is a continous process every morning until they reach the 2nd month. On the 2nd month you will notice every morning that the males go after the females and sometimes fight among themselves. This means that they are starting to breed. On the 2nd month all males and females are already separated. At 2.5 mos I sell the males already to fish wholesalers who in turn supply the petshops or fishshops. The females are left behind and used as future breeders. We start breeding them as 4-5 months, but only after careful selection. Usually out of a hundred female, we only get 30%.. those that did not pass the selection are sold "feeders". It is in this area of selection that we are very particular. We breed them until the 2nd generation only. On the succeeding generations, we infuse new males to a selection of females. If you continue to breed without selecting the females and infusing "new blood". . the body and tails of the male are getting smaller. Also you will notice different color paterns coming out of the males. In the females you will notice different color paterns in their tails as well as different body colors. May I ask how the breeding and trading of tropical fish is being done in your place? Also the price range if its not asking too much? Just want to know the system... ped

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27976	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 5/22/2008
Subject: Reuseable Filter Ecllipse filter

This is somewhat on the same thread so I don't consider it too much of a hijack, hope you don't either. My son and daughter both have an Ecllipse 5gal hex tank that use those overly expensive and too little carbon to do any good plastic "Rite-Size Z" filters that sit horizontal in the top of the tank's light/filter fixture. I hate paying for those silly things so I turned two of them into a single reuseable filter where I can put my own carbon, crushed coral, whatever, and use my own filter material. I'm heading out on vacation for a week, but when I get back, I'll take some pictures and put up. But in a nuttshell... I took two of the rite-size filters that had been used and reused and reused until they were about to fall apart and pulled the blue fliter material off both. The carbon had already been dumped long ago by pulling up on one end of the blue filter material. One of them I used a pocket knife to carefully cut the top rim off of the rectangular box. Throw away the rectangular box. Then I cut off the side tab and threw that away. So what I had was a rim with the two, I'll call them dog-ears of plastic at one end. Then I cut one end so it was about half as thick as it was originally, but leaving a "Tab" section in the middle. The second filter, I carefully cut a grove in the dog-eared section of plastic so that my new rim with the tab could click into that hole to hold it down. Then I took the rim and glued it down so it will basically be a hindged frame that I can raise and lower to hold filter pads down. Now all I have to do is buy a roll of filter material (whole bunch is cheap and goes a long way). I cut it into rectangles about 3" x 5" or whatever this filter is. Then I raise the frame and can put in carbon if I want or since we have very very soft water some crushed coral, lay the filter pad on top, and then snap the frame shut, and finally stick in the filter holder on the tank. I can easily change any material I have in there and then just wash out and reuse the filter material. Personally, I think it's a super great idea for any of the ecllipse tanks that have the horizontal filters in them. If you saw pictures you would understand so much more easily. I'll try in a week if I remember. ;-) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Carmen H" <eskielists@...> wrote: > > I'm not sure why everyone's making this complicated...to remove the > carbon from my cartridges, I just gently pull the blue floss away from > the plastic frame where it's glued at the top and shake it out. If > done dry, it comes out easily. When wet, it's a little messier and I > always end up rinsing it to get it all. I don't worry about the > bacteria, I figure the bio wheel(s) have enough to keep things going. > This method leaves the pocket intact so that loose media or a bag of > whatever can be inserted... > > I think we should start a letter writing campaign...Marineland used to > sell a plastic frame that clamped around and supported whatever > material you wanted to use. I still have a couple in use from a very > old filter... I guess the marketing department clued in that > mega-profit could be made on replacement media, much more than than on > the original purchase price... > > Carmen >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27977	From: ED	Date: 5/23/2008
Subject: WoooooHooooooo

Been working on the stand for the 72gal bowfront. Low and behold 2- angels paired off in the 55. Back up and put in a screen partition for them and TADA! Eggs, about 150-200. So cool watching them fan the eggs. Our youngest and prettiest pair, Ceasar and Cleopatra. Now gotta get nursery tanks set up with water from 55 so it matches as close as possable. And to think we havn't been really testing our water. 10-25% weekly water changes and the parameters in our tanks seem to be right wear each tank needs to be for each group of fish. Moderatly planted with java plant , borneo fern and swords, with anacharis thrown in now and again. Our figure eight puffers have some new tank mates,ballon mollies and feeder guppies(netted with shrimp) that are doing well in light brackish and oddly enough the ghost shrimp live longer in the brackish than in our freshwater tanks. Will be posting pics sometime next week.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27978	From: ED	Date: 5/23/2008
Subject: Guppies and Brackish water

Anyone try raising guppies(feeder) in slightly brackish water? We have some doing great for about 2 months now, Netted with ghost shrimp for feeding our puffers. Curious because when I tried fancy guppies in fresh they never did well. Which is truelly frustrating when our corydoras have layed eggs and now our angels, black ghost knife and pleco's are fine, The puffers ate frozen food within a half hour of putting them in thier tank and still doing fine, UncleRed doing fine, Platties/neons and skirted serpias doing fine,So I know it's not us and fish , but guppies have been a headache. 72gal bowfront, 55gal, 29gal, 15gal, 2-10gal and a 2.5gal. I still want to try fancy guppies again. So what do you think they are found along the gulf coast?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27979	From: harry perry	Date: 5/23/2008
Subject: Re: WoooooHooooooo/Ed

Congratulations. You sound really excited. Good luck with the fry. Harry ED <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: Been working on the stand for the 72gal bowfront. Low and behold 2- angels paired off in the 55. Back up and put in a screen partition for them and TADA! Eggs, about 150-200. So cool watching them fan the eggs. Our youngest and prettiest pair, Ceasar and Cleopatra. Now gotta get nursery tanks set up with water from 55 so it matches as close as possable. And to think we havn't been really testing our water. 10-25% weekly water changes and the parameters in our tanks seem to be right wear each tank needs to be for each group of fish. Moderatly planted with java plant , borneo fern and swords, with anacharis thrown in now and again. Our figure eight puffers have some new tank mates,ballon mollies and feeder guppies(netted with shrimp) that are doing well in light brackish and oddly enough the ghost shrimp live longer in the brackish than in our freshwater tanks. Will be posting pics sometime next week. Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27980	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/23/2008
Subject: Re: Guppies and Brackish water

Guppies originally come from hard water areas, for the most part. This does not mean brackish water, but hard water. Providing brackish water actually serves the same purpose. While the feeders are doing fine in that environment, I would not add fancies without some adjustment period. The fancy guppies are less tolerant of water conditions than are the feeder type guppies, and may not have been bred to their current state in hard water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 9:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppies and Brackish water Anyone try raising guppies(feeder) in slightly brackish water? We have some doing great for about 2 months now, Netted with ghost shrimp for feeding our puffers. Curious because when I tried fancy guppies in fresh they never did well. Which is truelly frustrating when our corydoras have layed eggs and now our angels, black ghost knife and pleco's are fine, The puffers ate frozen food within a half hour of putting them in thier tank and still doing fine, UncleRed doing fine, Platties/neons and skirted serpias doing fine,So I know it's not us and fish , but guppies have been a headache. 72gal bowfront, 55gal, 29gal, 15gal, 2-10gal and a 2.5gal. I still want to try fancy guppies again. So what do you think they are found along the gulf coast?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27981	From: pedunson	Date: 5/23/2008
Subject: Re: Guppies and Brackish water

We actually put salt in all our live-bearer breeding to make it a little brackish.We dont measure the salt level anymore, its like more of an additional component in the water, plus a little chlorine. The chlorine takes care of the parasites. For angels, chlorinated water is good. We breed them in 10 gal aquariums, by pairs, no aeration, no substrate and no plants..just the clay bricks where they lay their eggs. We collect the bricks after they have laid their eggs, and hatch the eggs in separate aquarium. After 3 wks, they start laying eggs again. ped --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Anyone try raising guppies(feeder) in slightly brackish water? > We have some doing great for about 2 months now, Netted with ghost > shrimp for feeding our puffers. > Curious because when I tried fancy guppies in fresh they never did well. > Which is truelly frustrating when our corydoras have layed eggs and now > our angels, black ghost knife and pleco's are fine, The puffers ate > frozen food within a half hour of putting them in thier tank and still > doing fine, UncleRed doing fine, Platties/neons and skirted serpias > doing fine,So I know it's not us and fish , but guppies have been a > headache. 72gal bowfront, 55gal, 29gal, 15gal, 2-10gal and a 2.5gal. > I still want to try fancy guppies again. > So what do you think they are found along the gulf coast? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27982	From: talkaboutphotography	Date: 5/23/2008
Subject: Action and Adventure Photography Tips

Adventure photography is probably the only field of photography that is exclusively shot by participants. Being a participant in the adventure gives you a front row seat to the action. You can use your proximity to help you focus on both the subject matter and the emotion of the events as they develop. Find more informations in This Link! <http://all-about-photography-talk.blogspot.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27983	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/24/2008
Subject: OT: Flying Fish Record

A new record has been set by a flying fish. This one remained airborne for 45 seconds, beating the old record by 3 seconds. You can see the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKGmHkar3_Q \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27984	From: sullllly	Date: 5/24/2008
Subject: quiet the air line on a noisy power head and some other mods.

I have accomplished the miraculous. No just kidding. It is kind of a hobby in itself thinking of ways I can improve my fish tanks, either in function or apperance or ways to modify my equipment to make maintenance quicker. Here is some of the stuff I have done recently. aquaclear powerheads come with a clamp for the rim of the tank. I have found though that the power head sits to low to agitate the water surface(thats where I want it for more oxygen in the water,important!)I cut a 3inch piece of the vinyl siphon hose and placed it between the top of the rim of the tank and the powerhead clamp to raise the power head I also used another piece of hose between the back of the clamp and the glass to tilt the power head so the discharge nozzle points slightly up at the surface. The whole idea is that the pieces of tubing work as shims to get the power head discharge directed to move the surface water. From everything I have read, this is what you want to do to increase the oxygen content of the water,(agitate the surface). Also I have found that the airline on powerheads is really noisy with a gurgle. I have reduced the noise by connecting regular air line tubing with a valve to increase and decrease air flow. Give the airline some length, enough to where the noise stops. I also filtered the start of the airline with poly fiber to filter the air being drawn.(I know alittle over the top but understand I worked as a clean air tech in the past and I dont want those airborne micro organisms in my tank). Now I have the power head moving the water at the top at a good clip with full air on and alot less noisy then as designed. CAUTION! Notice if you block the pump dicharge with your hand water will rise up the airline tube so keep the start of the tube in and at the top of the tank, just in the event that. Also I have found that the sponge filter aquaclear puts out can be cut to sizes to use for any other filter. IE I bought the sponge that fits the 110 model HOB filter and shaped it to fit the quick clean cages used with the powerheads and jammed then into other none aqua clear filter housings. Foam sponges are great because you just squeeze them clean in non chlorinated water to clean and reuse over and over again. Cost aside you want to get away from throw away filters because when you throw a fiter out your tossing away good bacteria. Happy Happy fish keeping, Kevin

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27985	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/24/2008
Subject: Re: quiet the air line on a noisy power head and some other mods.

Kevin, Great ideas, please keep them coming. -Mike In a message dated 5/24/2008 8:27:38 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kevinflea@... writes: I have accomplished the miraculous. No just kidding. It is kind of a hobby in itself thinking of ways I can improve my fish tanks, either in function or apperance or ways to modify my equipment to make maintenance quicker. Here is some of the stuff I have done recently. aquaclear powerheads come with a clamp for the rim of the tank. I have found though that the power head sits to low to agitate the water surface(thats where I want it for more oxygen in the water,important!water,important!<WBR>)I cut a 3inch piece of the v placed it between the top of the rim of the tank and the powerhead clamp to raise the power head I also used another piece of hose between the back of the clamp and the glass to tilt the power head so the discharge nozzle points slightly up at the surface. The whole idea is that the pieces of tubing work as shims to get the power head discharge directed to move the surface water. From everything I have read, this is what you want to do to increase the oxygen content of the water,(agitate the surface). Also I have found that the airline on powerheads is really noisy with a gurgle. I have reduced the noise by connecting regular air line tubing with a valve to increase and decrease air flow. Give the airline some length, enough to where the noise stops. I also filtered the start of the airline with poly fiber to filter the air being drawn.(I know alittle over the top but understand I worked as a clean air tech in the past and I dont want those airborne micro organisms in my tank). Now I have the power head moving the water at the top at a good clip with full air on and alot less noisy then as designed. CAUTION! Notice if you block the pump dicharge with your hand water will rise up the airline tube so keep the start of the tube in and at the top of the tank, just in the event that. Also I have found that the sponge filter aquaclear puts out can be cut to sizes to use for any other filter. IE I bought the sponge that fits the 110 model HOB filter and shaped it to fit the quick clean cages used with the powerheads and jammed then into other none aqua clear filter housings. Foam sponges are great because you just squeeze them clean in non chlorinated water to clean and reuse over and over again. Cost aside you want to get away from throw away filters because when you throw a fiter out your tossing away good bacteria. Happy Happy fish keeping, Kevin **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27986	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 5/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Flying Fish Record

In a message dated 5/24/2008 11:00:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, steve@... writes: That was so interesting. They look like half fish and half bird. A new record has been set by a flying fish. This one remained airborne for 45 seconds, beating the old record by 3 seconds. You can see the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKGmHkar3_Q \\Steve// **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27987	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank

Ok, there must be an easy way to do this and I haven't figured it out yet.....I have a 54 gallon corner, bow front tank. It has a glass top cover upon which I have two lights that sit on top of it. The glass top opens with a small hinge in the front part of the bow, about 5" as it folds back onto the rest of the glass top cover. My problem is this - I can't see if I take the top off completely to vacuum! I've tried putting a floor lamp near the tank - not a good solution. If I'm only vacuuming the front of the tank I can leave the glass top on with one light on it so I can see the front of the tank as I vacuum. To vacuum the back of the tank I can't see at all! I'm just doing it by feel. Second question is algae....I have some "hair" algae (I believe) I just pull it out once a week with my PCW. I also have a very thick, dark fuzzy algae that grows on the broad leaf plants in the tank - I don't like this at all! I've tried to gently rub it off with my thumb as I do my weekly maintanence but it doesn't come off. I have three flying foxes and a cory dora - is there some other algae eater that will help with these algaes? Especially the second one. My tank is heavily planted and the lights are on about 10 hours a day. The tank has been up and running for about three months. As usual, any help is greatly appreciated! This list is wealth of information and I thank you all! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27988	From: Monis Albukhari	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Oscar Fish

Hi, This my first time writing here.. I've some Oscar fish in a 120L tank for about a year with no problems, but recently one of the males (tiger) have a white blur eyes. its eating good with normal swimming, but I'm wondering if it have a serious problem or going to be ill. What should I do? Is there anyone know about this issue? By the way, my fish is more than 20cm length and 15 months old. Regards, Monis <http://www.e-knowledgenetwork.com/> The E-Knowledge Network [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27989	From: sullllly	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, shari rivenburg <hillfarm@...> wrote: > > What I do is this and perhaps you can too. I take the strip light off of the clear plastic sheets I use as a cover. Remove the cover. My tank is up against a wall so I will either rest the strip light on the HOB filter( it will still light the tank here) or I will rest it on the tank at a 90 degree angle to where it usually sits on one side of the top of the tank then move it to access the other side of the tank. When I first started doing maintenances I would try to vacuum every little square inch of the bottom. As my knowledge of the hobby grew I found that I was sweating this part of maintenance too much. I also have the bottom lined with pots and caves and pipes and it was too much of a chore to pull every thing out to vacuum the gravel. Now when I do my weekly maintenance I wave my hand around at the bottom in tight places which forces the waste to rise into the middle part of the water where I can grab it with the siphon, or it will float over to the filter return, or it will settle in an open area. Each week I will do different areas. I have reasoned that the only thing that will happen from not getting miticulous about a clean bottom is that my nitrate level may rise a little more which I offset with a alittle more water. As long as your water changes keep nitrates below 30-40ppm. you should have healthy fish. I would only sweat this part again if I was trying to make it through a cycle.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27990	From: sullllly	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: Oscar Fish

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Monis Albukhari" <monisbu@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > This my first time writing here.. > > I've some Oscar fish in a 120L tank for about a year with no problems, but > recently one of the males (tiger) have a white blur eyes. its eating good > with normal swimming, but I'm wondering if it have a serious problem or > going to be ill. > > What should I do? Is there anyone know about this issue? > > By the way, my fish is more than 20cm length and 15 months old. > > > > Regards, > > Monis > > <http://www.e-knowledgenetwork.com/> The E-Knowledge Network > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] On the internet I have found many sites that have a good chart that lists diagnosis for fish illness on one side with possible cures on the other. They are very detailed. search sick fish, or aquarium fish illness and you should be directed to one of them. good luck!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27991	From: Farscape	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: Oscar Fish

Any fish with a whitish film over their eyes is not too good, but usually easily treated... Usually, the cause is ick! (Though, if it looks like a scratch, it could have run into one of the decorations overnight.) All fish, when stressed, easily are overcome with the simplest of illnesses, usually ick. Try to do a water change to start with... You didn't say when you changed it last, now how many & what size his tankmates are. -Though, in a case like this, a 50% change, if possible, is best (do more if you can, but don't stress 'em more by getting it too low!). If you just did one, test the water quality - it could be that the water dist. in your area changed the treatment or some water got by untreated! (You may need to add more chlorine or ammonia rid to the tank.) Raise the water temp. about 2F (or about 1C)... Slowly, if not close to 80-82F, get it into that range for about a week... Adjust it no more then about 2F per 24 hrs. Add some salt, preferably not table salt, as the anti-caking agents are not good for fish... Iodine is OK though. -Kosher or sea salt is usually cheapest & easily found at a grocery store, but marine aquarium salt is OK as well. -Use about 1 teaspoon per 5 gal. to 1 tsp. per 2 gal. if it's really bad. (Don't do this if you have salt intolerant tankmates, like snails!) You can also add something like MelaFix, which does deter the ick, as well as will keep bacteria at bay but not harm the nitrogen cycle bacteria. If this doesn't cause it to start to clear in 24-48 hrs., then you have a fungus issue, and should treat accordingly... If you pick-up MelaFix from a pet store, you might also get PimaFix and add that as well, as it's a natural anti-fungal agent (just as MelaFix is a natural anti-biotic). If it's either kind of illness that my O's have run into, this will cure them in just a few days. -However, keep the salt (if you used it) and temp. as-is for a week, as ick lives in a cycle about a week long... Keeping these conditions will kill it & keep it from coming back. (That is, until enough gets into the water from water changes and re-colonizes the tank and the fish get stressed again.) Monis Albukhari wrote, On 5/25/2008 10:36 AM: > I've some Oscar fish in a 120L tank for about a year with no problems, but > recently one of the males (tiger) have a white blur eyes. its eating good > with normal swimming, but I'm wondering if it have a serious problem or > going to be ill.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27992	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank

I am trying to imagine your tank shape without looking for one online. Do you mean that it is basically a triangle, with the side facing toward the room bowed? If that is it, I can see why it is difficult to vacuum without removing the hood. What you need is more ambient light to start when you are doing your vacuuming. Unless, of course, it is the plants that get in your line of sight. The ambient light can be provided by a floor lamp that is moved closer to the tank, or any other light source you can easily move near the tank to provide light. If the problem is the vegetative canopy, you'll need to simply determine the best way to move it out of the way for you to see, most likely just pull it aside with your hand. There could be any number of causes for your algal growth. However, it all breaks down to food and light. If your plants are not utilizing all the nitrates (or most of them) and there are phosphates present, that may be your problem. If you are fertilizing your plants and/or using carbon dioxide for them, you may need to make some adjustments to lessen the amount of both to reduce the algal growth. Too much light can also be a problem. You will never entirely rid yourself of algae, but you can certainly minimize it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 11:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank Ok, there must be an easy way to do this and I haven't figured it out yet.....I have a 54 gallon corner, bow front tank. It has a glass top cover upon which I have two lights that sit on top of it. The glass top opens with a small hinge in the front part of the bow, about 5" as it folds back onto the rest of the glass top cover. My problem is this - I can't see if I take the top off completely to vacuum! I've tried putting a floor lamp near the tank - not a good solution. If I'm only vacuuming the front of the tank I can leave the glass top on with one light on it so I can see the front of the tank as I vacuum. To vacuum the back of the tank I can't see at all! I'm just doing it by feel. Second question is algae....I have some "hair" algae (I believe) I just pull it out once a week with my PCW. I also have a very thick, dark fuzzy algae that grows on the broad leaf plants in the tank - I don't like this at all! I've tried to gently rub it off with my thumb as I do my weekly maintanence but it doesn't come off. I have three flying foxes and a cory dora - is there some other algae eater that will help with these algaes? Especially the second one. My tank is heavily planted and the lights are on about 10 hours a day. The tank has been up and running for about three months. As usual, any help is greatly appreciated! This list is wealth of information and I thank you all! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27993	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: Oscar Fish

Your tank is too small for one oscar, never mind more than one. The cloudiness of the eyes is probably caused by a high level of some form of nitrogen. You do not include any water quality measurements, so this is just a best guess. First thing to do is to do at least 10-25% water changes daily. Once you have taken care of that today, go out and get a larger tank for your oscars. You are going to need a tank that will provide about (quickly doing the conversion) 190 liters per oscar. Get it set up and get it cycled. Before moving the fish over to it. You can do a fishless cycle using plain ammonia. If you seed the tank with filter media from your current filter placed in the new filter and use a few handfuls of substrate from your current tank to try to give the cycle a kick start and reduce the time needed for the cycle. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Monis Albukhari Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oscar Fish Hi, This my first time writing here.. I've some Oscar fish in a 120L tank for about a year with no problems, but recently one of the males (tiger) have a white blur eyes. its eating good with normal swimming, but I'm wondering if it have a serious problem or going to be ill. What should I do? Is there anyone know about this issue? By the way, my fish is more than 20cm length and 15 months old. Regards, Monis <http://www.e-knowledgenetwork.com/> The E-Knowledge Network

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27994	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank

Ah - the logistics. It sounds like if it's a matter of whether to climb up on something and take the tank apart. I wonder if it's really critical to suction every inch of that tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: shari rivenburg To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 10:39 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank Ok, there must be an easy way to do this and I haven't figured it out yet.....I have a 54 gallon corner, bow front tank. It has a glass top cover upon which I have two lights that sit on top of it. The glass top opens with a small hinge in the front part of the bow, about 5" as it folds back onto the rest of the glass top cover. My problem is this - I can't see if I take the top off completely to vacuum! I've tried putting a floor lamp near the tank - not a good solution. If I'm only vacuuming the front of the tank I can leave the glass top on with one light on it so I can see the front of the tank as I vacuum. To vacuum the back of the tank I can't see at all! I'm just doing it by feel. Second question is algae....I have some "hair" algae (I believe) I just pull it out once a week with my PCW. I also have a very thick, dark fuzzy algae that grows on the broad leaf plants in the tank - I don't like this at all! I've tried to gently rub it off with my thumb as I do my weekly maintanence but it doesn't come off. I have three flying foxes and a cory dora - is there some other algae eater that will help with these algaes? Especially the second one. My tank is heavily planted and the lights are on about 10 hours a day. The tank has been up and running for about three months. As usual, any help is greatly appreciated! This list is wealth of information and I thank you all! Shari Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) |

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank

I take my light strip and hang it over the front of the tank so that the light shines in through the front. You could also rig up a way to suspend the light strip from the ceiling when you do your PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 2:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank I am trying to imagine your tank shape without looking for one online. Do you mean that it is basically a triangle, with the side facing toward the room bowed? If that is it, I can see why it is difficult to vacuum without removing the hood. What you need is more ambient light to start when you are doing your vacuuming. Unless, of course, it is the plants that get in your line of sight. The ambient light can be provided by a floor lamp that is moved closer to the tank, or any other light source you can easily move near the tank to provide light. If the problem is the vegetative canopy, you'll need to simply determine the best way to move it out of the way for you to see, most likely just pull it aside with your hand. There could be any number of causes for your algal growth. However, it all breaks down to food and light. If your plants are not utilizing all the nitrates (or most of them) and there are phosphates present, that may be your problem. If you are fertilizing your plants and/or using carbon dioxide for them, you may need to make some adjustments to lessen the amount of both to reduce the algal growth. Too much light can also be a problem. You will never entirely rid yourself of algae, but you can certainly minimize it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 11:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] lighting to PCW/vacuum my tank Ok, there must be an easy way to do this and I haven't figured it out yet.....I have a 54 gallon corner, bow front tank. It has a glass top cover upon which I have two lights that sit on top of it. The glass top opens with a small hinge in the front part of the bow, about 5" as it folds back onto the rest of the glass top cover. My problem is this - I can't see if I take the top off completely to vacuum! I've tried putting a floor lamp near the tank - not a good solution. If I'm only vacuuming the front of the tank I can leave the glass top on with one light on it so I can see the front of the tank as I vacuum. To vacuum the back of the tank I can't see at all! I'm just doing it by feel. Second question is algae....I have some "hair" algae (I believe) I just pull it out once a week with my PCW. I also have a very thick, dark fuzzy algae that grows on the broad leaf plants in the tank - I don't like this at all! I've tried to gently rub it off with my thumb as I do my weekly maintanence but it doesn't come off. I have three flying foxes and a cory dora - is there some other algae eater that will help with these algaes? Especially the second one. My tank is heavily planted and the lights are on about 10 hours a day. The tank has been up and running for about three months. As usual, any help is greatly appreciated! This list is wealth of information and I thank you all! Shari No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008 8:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008 8:56 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27996	From: Anndrea	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: new to the group

> But I always seem to have more male fries than females, the rate is almost > 4:1! Any idea why is that happening? > > Noura Hi, I was reading about another kind of fish (I think it was Kribensis), and it said the temperature of the water was what determined the ratio of male to female fry. That if you had the water to one end (the warmer end or the colder end, I don't remember which) of the safe temp range, that you could actually produce an all male (or all female) brood of fry. Just wanted to share that...I keep my tanks around 78-80 F and my swordtail had almost all female babies...I know nothing more as no more of my fish have had babies (though my glofish laid eggs, but I believe they were eaten by the chinese algae eater or some other fish in the tank). I believe I will be experiencing some dalmation molly fry in a month or so, though :-) anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27997	From: Anndrea	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Ok, I have a new fish...

It is a pictus catfish. I have wanted one of these, just from seeing them in the store. I really know nothing about them. This one is about 6 inches long, maybe. I got him from someone on Craigslist and they caught him with a regular aquarium net. He has a piece stuck to one of his side fins (I know they have the little barbs on them and didn't want to risk ripping the fin off, so have left it). We cut most of it off, and the piece that is still attached is just big enough to see, pretty much. It has collected some kind of goo on it, and I doubt that is good for the fish. So, my first question is: Is there a way to get this off of the fish without hurting him/her? Then I just need to know some basic pictus care...what do they eat? (I never saw him eat until I dropped a couple of shrimp pellets in there and he came out of hiding, swooped up a couple and went back into his cave thing...he seemed to be "chewing" them for quite some time, and as they are meant to kinda fall apart, I'm not sure he should have eaten them while they were still so hard) He/she is in a tank with a blue(or 3 spot) gourami. Was the only tank that doesn't have little fish in it that would be small enough for the pictus to eat. They don't seem to fight at all. The pictus is usually in his cave thingy. I have gravel at the bottom...natural color, smooth, roundish rocks. There's a filter, and air bubbles. The tank is a 20 gallon, but is about 30 inches long...and not as tall as the regular 20 gallon tanks. Any info on this fish would be greatly appreciated...I have had very little luck with googling him/her. Thanks :-) anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27998	From: sullllly	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge

I never heard of a mini cycle but what I would interpret it to mean would be a short cycle. ie shorter then the average 4 to 6 week time. Different people have different ways of accomplishing this. Ways that I have heard include puting Bio Spira into the water (refrigerated bacteria) heavily stocking and feeding disposable fish (ammonia will climb too a high level fast) , adding pure ammonia straight from the bottle,I have even heard people suggest urine to cycle fast. I dont know if I would want to go with the last personally, if I ever wanted to cycle a tank again I would probably stock the tank with lots inexpensive gold fish and ask the LFS for either some gravel from one of the tanks or to have some of the slime from the filter tubes. I would then install these items upstream from the bio filter media. This would probably increase the time to 2 weeks. It would be fun to experiment with a combination of these things to see what would complete the cycle first[no ammonia or nitrites just nitrates].Found by testing the water. > > > What does 'mini-cycle' mean? Does it just mean that the N-bacteria are less > in number than the tank bio-load needs? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 5:23 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Removing carbon from Penguin filter cartridge > > > Once I cut the H, which is the best cut to make to open up the filter to > remove the carbon while still maintaining adequate filter frame strength, > there is no real need to bend them back and forth. It's very pliable > plastic so all I do is just open up the bottom half of the H so I can tuck > an extra piece of filter floss pad in there so it holds it in place when I > slide the cartridge back down into the slot in the reservoir. As you saw > from my blog/photos, I use the blue/white kind which is much thicker and > better than the thin blue filter floss pad in the cartridge. > > I would save your new ones with the fresh carbon for the event of when you > might need to run fresh carbon... like after a medicinal treatment, etc. It > will only take a minute to cut the H and dump the old carbon and then you > can put the cartridge right back into the filter system so all of the > N-bacteria living on the filter floss pad will still be there. You will > lose some N-bacteria that were living on the carbon but you'll have enough > on the filter floss pad so they will quickly multiply to keep a mini-cycle > to a bare minimum.. if at all. You also have N-bacteria living in the > gravel and on all surface areas in the tank so the ones you throw away with > the carbon will be only 20-40 percent of the overall N-bacteria that you > have so your remaining bacteria... especially those on the filter floss pad, > will multiply in 24-48 hours to handle the job of the ones that got throw > away. > > I see that you have two ages filters in the system so you could do surgery > on one now and wait a couple of days and then do the second filter > cartridge. This would further minimize any possibility of a mini- cycle. I > don't think you'll have a problem at all.. especially doing only one > cartridge at a time. Once you've done both of them, you will have increased > your filtration to a much higher capacity since you won't have to worry > about that one thin filter floss pad on the cartridge getting clogged. Now > you will have four layers of filter floss pads. The back cartridge will get > clogged quicker so when it starts to slow down the water flow, turn off the > filter, remove the back cartridge for cleaning and move the front cartridge > to the rear. This will keep one fully cycled filter cartridge in your > system at all times.. even when you clean the other one good. > > Your other option would be to get a microscope and some microscopic tweezers > and pick each of the thousands of N-bacteria off of the carbon and > transplant them to the filter floss. JUST KIDDDDIINNNNNGGGG! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 27999	From: sullllly	Date: 5/25/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I have a new fish...

Well are you lucky because you can google fish geeks or aquariainfo.com or net or some other site that has fish profiles and that is what you want to search to find what your new fish likes to eat and the ideal temp,if he/she may have an attitude problem with other fish. There are hundreds of fish sites on the web, I promise you. it wouldnt surprise me if you found a club dedicated to cats (fish). > > It is a pictus catfish. I have wanted one of these, just from seeing > them in the store. I really know nothing about them. > > This one is about 6 inches long, maybe. I got him from someone on > Craigslist and they caught him with a regular aquarium net. He has a > piece stuck to one of his side fins (I know they have the little > barbs on them and didn't want to risk ripping the fin off, so have > left it). We cut most of it off, and the piece that is still attached > is just big enough to see, pretty much. It has collected some kind of > goo on it, and I doubt that is good for the fish. > > So, my first question is: Is there a way to get this off of the fish > without hurting him/her? > > Then I just need to know some basic pictus care...what do they eat? > (I never saw him eat until I dropped a couple of shrimp pellets in > there and he came out of hiding, swooped up a couple and went back > into his cave thing...he seemed to be "chewing" them for quite some > time, and as they are meant to kinda fall apart, I'm not sure he > should have eaten them while they were still so hard) > > He/she is in a tank with a blue(or 3 spot) gourami. Was the only tank > that doesn't have little fish in it that would be small enough for > the pictus to eat. They don't seem to fight at all. The pictus is > usually in his cave thingy. > > I have gravel at the bottom...natural color, smooth, roundish rocks. > There's a filter, and air bubbles. The tank is a 20 gallon, but is > about 30 inches long...and not as tall as the regular 20 gallon tanks. > > Any info on this fish would be greatly appreciated...I have had very > little luck with googling him/her. > > Thanks :-) > anndrea >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28000	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ok, I have a new fish...

There are available, tough nylon semi-small mesh nets which are inpenitrable by catfishes' fin spines. You might want to try one of those to bring you catfish up near the surface and try using a pair of tweezers to remove this material. This is an ongoing problem encountered by many new-owner catfish enthusiasts as they least expect this to occur. For additional information, you could go up to < www.planetcatfish.com > which is one of the best sites for info on these fishes found on the 'Net. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Anndrea" <anndreae@...> wrote: > > It is a pictus catfish. I have wanted one of these, just from seeing > them in the store. I really know nothing about them. > > This one is about 6 inches long, maybe. I got him from someone on > Craigslist and they caught him with a regular aquarium net. He has a > piece stuck to one of his side fins (I know they have the little > barbs on them and didn't want to risk ripping the fin off, so have > left it). We cut most of it off, and the piece that is still attached > is just big enough to see, pretty much. It has collected some kind of > goo on it, and I doubt that is good for the fish. > > So, my first question is: Is there a way to get this off of the fish > without hurting him/her? > > Then I just need to know some basic pictus care...what do they eat? > (I never saw him eat until I dropped a couple of shrimp pellets in > there and he came out of hiding, swooped up a couple and went back > into his cave thing...he seemed to be "chewing" them for quite some > time, and as they are meant to kinda fall apart, I'm not sure he > should have eaten them while they were still so hard) > > He/she is in a tank with a blue(or 3 spot) gourami. Was the only tank > that doesn't have little fish in it that would be small enough for > the pictus to eat. They don't seem to fight at all. The pictus is > usually in his cave thingy. > > I have gravel at the bottom...natural color, smooth, roundish rocks. > There's a filter, and air bubbles. The tank is a 20 gallon, but is > about 30 inches long...and not as tall as the regular 20 gallon tanks. > > Any info on this fish would be greatly appreciated...I have had very > little luck with googling him/her. > > Thanks :-) > anndrea >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28001	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: Oscar Fish

Monis, Am adding to the responses here only to take the guess-work out of them, for your benefit. Since the first item I'm replying to seems to include some controversy, please know that Eye-Cloud is not at all a result of Ich. It is, as Steve points out, highly likely that nitrogenous waste may well be the indirerct cause, with a bacterial infection starting to set in. Please give us the results of your water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH), so we can advise you further. Your 120 Liter (32 U.S. gallons) tank is barely large enough to adequately house one 20 cm. (8") Oscar, and not large enough to provide this fish with ample enough quarters for it to attain full size -- and you indicate having more than one. As these fish grow they are needing larger and/or more frequent water changes, which appears as not being kept up with. Give us some test results and we can get back to you with a remedy, but for starters heed Steve's advice with water changes (after testing your water). You may need medications as well, but only tests also done after these water changes will indicate when they can be administered. To try using medications in poor water is useless. In the meantime, your larger tank can be cycling. To take the guesswork out of fish-less cycling, using plain clear 10% solution ammonia, as has been already recommended, (note -- not sudsey or cloudy ammonia) add between 3 and 5 drops of this solution per U.S. gallon (or until the ammonia reading tests at 5 ppm) to your new tank, re-testing every day and adding new solution as the cycle progresses until such time as your bacterial colonies are able to convert this load. You will need to initiate PWC's (partial water changes) after about 4 weeks to start removing the excess nitrates at that time, which will be building up after that. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Your tank is too small for one oscar, never mind more than one. The > cloudiness of the eyes is probably caused by a high level of some form > of nitrogen. You do not include any water quality measurements, so this > is just a best guess. > > First thing to do is to do at least 10-25% water changes daily. Once you > have taken care of that today, go out and get a larger tank for your > oscars. You are going to need a tank that will provide about (quickly > doing the conversion) 190 liters per oscar. Get it set up and get it > cycled. Before moving the fish over to it. You can do a fishless cycle > using plain ammonia. If you seed the tank with filter media from your > current filter placed in the new filter and use a few handfuls of > substrate from your current tank to try to give the cycle a kick start > and reduce the time needed for the cycle. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Monis Albukhari > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oscar Fish > > Hi, > > > > This my first time writing here.. > > I've some Oscar fish in a 120L tank for about a year with no problems, > but > recently one of the males (tiger) have a white blur eyes. its eating > good > with normal swimming, but I'm wondering if it have a serious problem or > going to be ill. > > What should I do? Is there anyone know about this issue? > > By the way, my fish is more than 20cm length and 15 months old. > > > > Regards, > > Monis > > <http://www.e-knowledgenetwork.com/> The E-Knowledge Network >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28002	From: jamesewerjr	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: i just got tank

I just recieved a 55 gallon tank with fish, the problem is one of the fish is not right? it lays on the bottom of the tank on its side (most of the time) the rest it is strait up it will swim to top and then go to the bottom. it is a blue gourami. Not sure what is wrong or what to do. can any one help me out i have tried to research this but find nothing. I just got them today and have another tank i want to put all fish in one tank but want to make sure this fish is not sick..please e mail me as soon as possiable with answers thanks james. jamesewerjr@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28003	From: harry perry	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: i just got tank/James

There are over 100 diseases that effect tropical fish.Some can only be diagnosed thru autopsy. You need to quarantine this fish asap. A 5 gal. hospital tank will do. It's a good habit to quarantine all fish before you mix them Harry jamesewerjr <jamesewerjr@...> wrote: I just recieved a 55 gallon tank with fish, the problem is one of the fish is not right? it lays on the bottom of the tank on its side (most of the time) the rest it is strait up it will swim to top and then go to the bottom. it is a blue gourami. Not sure what is wrong or what to do. can any one help me out i have tried to research this but find nothing. I just got them today and have another tank i want to put all fish in one tank but want to make sure this fish is not sick..please e mail me as soon as possiable with answers thanks james. jamesewerjr@... Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28004	From: sullllly	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: i just got tank

If the fish is leaning on its side at the bottom it is sick(gouramis dont fein death). It probably has an infection or infestation. Here is a good web site that talks about begining fish keeping. You want to learn about bio filtration , water changes and other stuff or you will have more illness in the tank. the site www.aquaria.info > > I just recieved a 55 gallon tank with fish, the problem is one of the > fish is not right? it lays on the bottom of the tank on its side (most > of the time) the rest it is strait up it will swim to top and then go > to the bottom. it is a blue gourami. Not sure what is wrong or what to > do. can any one help me out i have tried to research this but find > nothing. I just got them today and have another tank i want to put all > fish in one tank but want to make sure this fish is not sick..please e > mail me as soon as possiable with answers thanks james. > > > jamesewerjr@... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28005	From: frankhall70	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: tropical fish

hi im new and was wondering are tropical fish hard to keep? im used to coldwater ones and they are lovely but seen some fantastic tropical ones just asking os my son wants some and was wonderingwhat ones are best, thanks , regards emma.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28006	From: Jim	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: New to site and fish keeping

Hello all i am a 26 y/o male who is happily married and expecting my first baby in september. I am looking at starting a reef tank in my house and am blown away at how much there is to learn. I am looking at getting around a 100-150 gallon tank so i have been looking around for one. Due to wanting a reef tank i think i will save up for a while and buy a tank that is already set up with everything i need. If anyone has any good sites they can think of for me to read i would appritiate it. i am looking for any information since i have never kept a tank before. not that i haven't wanted to I just was not in a place where i could put the time into it i needed.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28007	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: tropical fish

I don’t think they are hard to keep, especially if you choose fish that will be happy in your tap water without adjustment. What is your pH? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frankhall70 Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tropical fish hi im new and was wondering are tropical fish hard to keep? im used to coldwater ones and they are lovely but seen some fantastic tropical ones just asking os my son wants some and was wonderingwhat ones are best, thanks , regards emma. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28008	From: frank hall	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: tropical fish

im not sure yet we are waiting for a tank , my mam keeps tropical fish just she has more stuff for fish than ive seen for cold water fish , the last fish we had were happy enough in tap water but that was 8 years ago lol i dont know if that tells you anything or not, thanks or the reply , regards emma. Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: I don’t think they are hard to keep, especially if you choose fish that will be happy in your tap water without adjustment. What is your pH? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frankhall70 Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tropical fish hi im new and was wondering are tropical fish hard to keep? im used to coldwater ones and they are lovely but seen some fantastic tropical ones just asking os my son wants some and was wonderingwhat ones are best, thanks , regards emma. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28009	From: frankhall70	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping

hi like you im new and ive seen some good tanks on www.adtrader.co.uk under pes you might get what your looking for there as i was told you need to keep the filter on in your tank over a week before putting in any fish , by a pet shop, but was told because the small tank we got from my mam had been running before hand we didnt need to wait , ope this helps , regards emma.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28010	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping

Hi Jim, I do not keep any saltwater tanks but check out WetWebMedia.com The site is supposed to be a good resource for saltwater aquarists. -Mike Hello all i am a 26 y/o male who is happily married and expecting my first baby in september. I am looking at starting a reef tank in my house and am blown away at how much there is to learn. I am looking at getting around a 100-150 gallon tank so i have been looking around for one. Due to wanting a reef tank i think i will save up for a while and buy a tank that is already set up with everything i need. If anyone has any good sites they can think of for me to read i would appritiate it. i am looking for any information since i have never kept a tank before. not that i haven't wanted to I just was not in a place where i could put the time into it i needed. -----Original Message----- From: Jim <jwc9317@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 26 May 2008 1:38 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] New to site and fish keeping Hello all i am a 26 y/o male who is happily married and expecting my first baby in september. I am looking at starting a reef tank in my house and am blown away at how much there is to learn. I am looking at getting around a 100-150 gallon tank so i have been looking around for one. Due to wanting a reef tank i think i will save up for a while and buy a tank that is already set up with everything i need. If anyone has any good sites they can think of for me to read i would appritiate it. i am looking for any information since i have never kept a tank before. not that i haven't wanted to I just was not in a place where i could put the time into it i needed. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28011	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: tropical fish

Different fish need different pH. I keep African cichlids and they need a high pH of around 8. Many other tropical fish like neons, etc. prefer a lower pH. It’s easier to choose the fish to fit the water, because then you won’t have to treat it every week when you do water changes. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frank hall Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 5:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] tropical fish im not sure yet we are waiting for a tank , my mam keeps tropical fish just she has more stuff for fish than ive seen for cold water fish , the last fish we had were happy enough in tap water but that was 8 years ago lol i dont know if that tells you anything or not, thanks or the reply , regards emma. Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> wrote: I don’t think they are hard to keep, especially if you choose fish that will be happy in your tap water without adjustment. What is your pH? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frankhall70 Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tropical fish hi im new and was wondering are tropical fish hard to keep? im used to coldwater ones and they are lovely but seen some fantastic tropical ones just asking os my son wants some and was wonderingwhat ones are best, thanks , regards emma. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28012	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping

I like reefs.org as a forum for marine.don't have one yet though. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to site and fish keeping Hi Jim, I do not keep any saltwater tanks but check out WetWebMedia.com The site is supposed to be a good resource for saltwater aquarists. -Mike Hello all i am a 26 y/o male who is happily married and expecting my first baby in september. I am looking at starting a reef tank in my house and am blown away at how much there is to learn. I am looking at getting around a 100-150 gallon tank so i have been looking around for one. Due to wanting a reef tank i think i will save up for a while and buy a tank that is already set up with everything i need. If anyone has any good sites they can think of for me to read i would appritiate it. i am looking for any information since i have never kept a tank before. not that i haven't wanted to I just was not in a place where i could put the time into it i needed. -----Original Message----- From: Jim <jwc9317@yahoo. <mailto:jwc9317%40yahoo.com> com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 26 May 2008 1:38 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] New to site and fish keeping Hello all i am a 26 y/o male who is happily married and expecting my first baby in september. I am looking at starting a reef tank in my house and am blown away at how much there is to learn. I am looking at getting around a 100-150 gallon tank so i have been looking around for one. Due to wanting a reef tank i think i will save up for a while and buy a tank that is already set up with everything i need. If anyone has any good sites they can think of for me to read i would appritiate it. i am looking for any information since i have never kept a tank before. not that i haven't wanted to I just was not in a place where i could put the time into it i needed. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28013	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: tropical fish

Outside of the water temperature, keeping warm water fish should not be so different. They may suffer from some different diseases, but your fish are not going to get sick or have parasites, right? <g>. Take some time to do some study on what fish you may want to keep and find if they are compatible with your water, pH and hardness are the most important two here. Make sure that their temperature ranges overlap as well. You still have the nitrogen cycle, and some of the life aspects of the fish will happen quicker in the warmer water, mostly with growth rates and various breeding aspects. You will also have a wide variety of life habits to choose from. I may be wrong, but I do not know of a single temperate or cold water fish (and you are probably used to the former rather than the latter) that is a livebearer. But, you will also see things you may have noted with previous fishes as nest building, territorial behavior, etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frankhall70 Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tropical fish hi im new and was wondering are tropical fish hard to keep? im used to coldwater ones and they are lovely but seen some fantastic tropical ones just asking os my son wants some and was wonderingwhat ones are best, thanks , regards emma.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28014	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping

Reef aquarists have forums and lists and local clubs - in Austin they have several of them. Taht would be a good resource where to look for a set up tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 3:38 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New to site and fish keeping Hello all i am a 26 y/o male who is happily married and expecting my first baby in september. I am looking at starting a reef tank in my house and am blown away at how much there is to learn. I am looking at getting around a 100-150 gallon tank so i have been looking around for one. Due to wanting a reef tank i think i will save up for a while and buy a tank that is already set up with everything i need. If anyone has any good sites they can think of for me to read i would appritiate it. i am looking for any information since i have never kept a tank before. not that i haven't wanted to I just was not in a place where i could put the time into it i needed.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28015	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: tropical fish

A good place to read good profiles/care sheets on most tropical fish is http://fish.mongabay.com Just enter your fishes common name or latin name. On each profile, there are also sections for recommended water parameters, tank size, compatibility issues, feeding, breeding, etc. You can start fishless cycling the new tank for the tropical fish and while it's fishless cycling, you can start checking to see what fish you like that are available in your area stores, then read the profiles on each one to see if they are compatible with your source water and with each other. If you aren't familiar with fishless cycling, go to my blog and check out my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. Links on the right side. Nothing for sale on my blog.. just information and articles I've put together over the years. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] tropical fish Outside of the water temperature, keeping warm water fish should not be so different. They may suffer from some different diseases, but your fish are not going to get sick or have parasites, right? <g>. Take some time to do some study on what fish you may want to keep and find if they are compatible with your water, pH and hardness are the most important two here. Make sure that their temperature ranges overlap as well. You still have the nitrogen cycle, and some of the life aspects of the fish will happen quicker in the warmer water, mostly with growth rates and various breeding aspects. You will also have a wide variety of life habits to choose from. I may be wrong, but I do not know of a single temperate or cold water fish (and you are probably used to the former rather than the latter) that is a livebearer. But, you will also see things you may have noted with previous fishes as nest building, territorial behavior, etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of frankhall70 Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] tropical fish hi im new and was wondering are tropical fish hard to keep? im used to coldwater ones and they are lovely but seen some fantastic tropical ones just asking os my son wants some and was wonderingwhat ones are best, thanks , regards emma. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1466 - Release Date: 5/25/2008 6:49 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28016	From: citra.cool2	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: The Good Food for PANGASIUS

What is the best food for pangasius? Worm or Pelet?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28017	From: sullllly	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: tropical fish

The only difference between tropical fish and other is the water temp. Of course there are many different species of fresh water tropical fish. Some of the things to consider when choosing: Your home tap water ph and hardness.(can be measured with a test kit or you can bring some water to the pet shop and they can tell you)., Do you want community fish?(fish that wont kill one another), Adult size and size of your tank.(Its a myth that the fish wont out grow a tank). Usually if you go to a pet store you can ask the staff for recommendations, try to ask the manager about your choices. They should start with questioning how big your tank is and if you currently have fish. Sometimes the netters have no fish knowledge and just want to bag you a fish and will tell you anything ,so try to deal with someone that knows. good luck. Oh above all learn about bio filtration in aquariums. > > hi im new and was wondering are tropical fish hard to keep? im used to > coldwater ones and they are lovely but seen some fantastic tropical > ones just asking os my son wants some and was wonderingwhat ones are > best, thanks , regards emma. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28018	From: sullllly	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping

Yea if you can do it on the cheap, you could probably find some good deals out there. More so if you live near a metro area. I would check out the classifides of marine aquarium clubs and see if anyone is moving and cant take there set up along. I dont know how I would feel wiwith a used tank that size. Some people fill it to the rim outside to make sure no seals are leaking. Protein skimmer,power head,test kits,python,hydrometer,instant ocean,filter,heater,live rock. Salt water can get pricey. On fish,equipment and continued cost of instant ocean every water change. If it fits your budget though go for it. They are the most beautiful fish. I settled with fish between fresh and salt, African Cichlids. > > Hello all i am a 26 y/o male who is happily married and expecting my > first baby in september. I am looking at starting a reef tank in my > house and am blown away at how much there is to learn. I am looking at > getting around a 100-150 gallon tank so i have been looking around for > one. Due to wanting a reef tank i think i will save up for a while and > buy a tank that is already set up with everything i need. If anyone > has any good sites they can think of for me to read i would appritiate > it. i am looking for any information since i have never kept a tank > before. not that i haven't wanted to I just was not in a place where i > could put the time into it i needed. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28019	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/26/2008
Subject: Re: The Good Food for PANGASIUS

It depends on what species? There are several in the Pangasius species. Look at this page... http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/genus.php?genus_id=78#172 You could read the profiles on PlanetCatfish which have pictures of each species so you should be able to identify your fish and the profiles will also cover feeding for each species. I looked at a couple of the profiles and these fish get HUGE!!!! The first two listed below are two of the most common and are a major food source.. especially P. hypophthalmus http://worldofpangasius.com/?open=new&id=41. http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=172 (P. hypophthalmus) grows to over 50" long (1300mm) http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=843 (P. bocourti) grows to over 47" long (1200mm) http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=268 (P. sanitwongsei) grows to over 90" long (2500mm) I hope you have a BIG tank... or rather a BIG swimming pool. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of citra.cool2 Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 10:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The Good Food for PANGASIUS What is the best food for pangasius? Worm or Pelet? _ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1466 - Release Date: 5/25/2008 6:49 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28023	From: James Ewer Jr	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: thank you

thanks for the info i have put the fish into another tank all by its self  so that my other fish dont get sick. Some of the info i have read say it may also be pregnet but i think it is sick thanks again and i hope i can gat this right ----- Original Message ---- From: sullllly <kevinflea@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 3:49:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: i just got tank If the fish is leaning on its side at the bottom it is sick(gouramis dont fein death). It probably has an infection or infestation. Here is a good web site that talks about begining fish keeping. You want to learn about bio filtration , water changes and other stuff or you will have more illness in the tank. the site www.aquaria. info > > I just recieved a 55 gallon tank with fish, the problem is one of the > fish is not right? it lays on the bottom of the tank on its side (most > of the time) the rest it is strait up it will swim to top and then go > to the bottom. it is a blue gourami. Not sure what is wrong or what to > do. can any one help me out i have tried to research this but find > nothing. I just got them today and have another tank i want to put all > fish in one tank but want to make sure this fish is not sick..please e > mail me as soon as possiable with answers thanks james. > > > jamesewerjr@ ... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28024	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: thank you

Gourami's do not get pregnant per se. They are egg layers and bubble nesters. Was the fish sick already when you got the tank? What did you do to the new tank when you got it? (PWC=partial water change, filter cleaning, etc.) What are your water parameters in the tank? (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH/KH, temp, etc.) When fish get stressed, their immune systems falter and they are more likely to succumb to something that they normally would have handled without much incident. It could be that the move caused this or that it was already sick. Changing the water too much, too fast can also cause issues with things like temperature shock, pH shock, osmoregulatory issues if other water parameters change too fast, etc. Fish slowly acclimate to water... even bad water.. so changing it too fast can cause issues. Unless there is an emergency contamination, it's better to do a series of 25% PWC's (or less depending on the water parameters) rather than a single large water change (50% or more). Like someone else already advised, moving the sick fish to a H-tank would be best so you can observe it better. Look at it's poop which is a good indicator of things that might be going on. If the poop is long, white colored and stringy, it could be a parasitic issue or digestive tract bacterial issue. Also, a sick fish is more likely to be bullied by other fish so moving it to it's own tank gives it peace of mind (thus less stress) so it has a better chance to recover. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Ewer Jr Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: thank you thanks for the info i have put the fish into another tank all by its self so that my other fish dont get sick. Some of the info i have read say it may also be pregnet but i think it is sick thanks again and i hope i can gat this right ----- Original Message ---- From: sullllly <kevinflea@... <mailto:kevinflea%40verizon.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 3:49:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: i just got tank If the fish is leaning on its side at the bottom it is sick(gouramis dont fein death). It probably has an infection or infestation. Here is a good web site that talks about begining fish keeping. You want to learn about bio filtration , water changes and other stuff or you will have more illness in the tank. the site www.aquaria. info > > I just recieved a 55 gallon tank with fish, the problem is one of the > fish is not right? it lays on the bottom of the tank on its side (most > of the time) the rest it is strait up it will swim to top and then go > to the bottom. it is a blue gourami. Not sure what is wrong or what to > do. can any one help me out i have tried to research this but find > nothing. I just got them today and have another tank i want to put all > fish in one tank but want to make sure this fish is not sick..please e > mail me as soon as possiable with answers thanks james. > > > jamesewerjr@ ... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1468 - Release Date: 5/26/2008 3:23 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28025	From: susieharden	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Decisions, decisions

Hi, I live in Tx. but was raised in In. I have 6 recued dogs and 2 Siamese. I have decided to get an aquaruim. Now for the hard part. Do I want a 12 or 29 gal. tank. And do I want fresh or saltwater fish. I had a 10 gal. freshwater tank several years ago. Ahter my 'little' brother got tired of his. Now I'm ready to get serious about having a really nice tank. I know nothing about saltwater fish or whether they are easy and are having corals very difficult. But I've been trying to read as much as I could on them. Could you tell me the pros and cons about saltwater fish with or without corals.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28026	From: vivian bradish	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Pregnant Platy

I have a Platy about ready to give birth. I do not know if I should get one of those floating birthing cages because I understand it can stress the mother. However, my aquarium does not have a lot of vegetation or hiding places for the little ones to escape to. I really do not want live plants in my tank. Should I get a birthing cage or should I just float some artificial vegetation on the top? Thanks Vivian

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28027	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

I'm personally a freshwater fan simply because salt water is harder to maintain, messier and more costly. Those are just my reasons. I love my planted aquariums. The size depends on what type of aquarium you're going for. Mine are all small, ten gallons or less, but I keep small fish and and I can keep more tanks with more varieties by doing several small vs. one big aquarium. Depending on the fish you want, and how many, you might want to go with the bigger aquarium. Kate --- On Tue, 5/27/08, susieharden <sharden47@...> wrote: From: susieharden <sharden47@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Decisions, decisions To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 27, 2008, 11:49 AM Hi, I live in Tx. but was raised in In. I have 6 recued dogs and 2 Siamese. I have decided to get an aquaruim. Now for the hard part. Do I want a 12 or 29 gal. tank. And do I want fresh or saltwater fish. I had a 10 gal. freshwater tank several years ago. Ahter my 'little' brother got tired of his. Now I'm ready to get serious about having a really nice tank. I know nothing about saltwater fish or whether they are easy and are having corals very difficult. But I've been trying to read as much as I could on them. Could you tell me the pros and cons about saltwater fish with or without corals. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28028	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping

Unless you add bacteria from an outside source, you will have to cycle the tank which takes 6-8 weeks before you put in fish. If the tank you got from your mother has been running continuously with a number of fish in it, then it’s already cycled. But don’t leave it without fish in it for more than 24-48 hours because the bacteria need the fish waste to live. Does your mother have a pH test you can use?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28029	From: vivian bradish	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "susieharden" <sharden47@...> wrote: > > Hi, I live in Tx. but was raised in In. I have 6 recued dogs and 2 > Siamese. I have decided to get an aquaruim. Now for the hard part. Do I > want a 12 or 29 gal. tank. And do I want fresh or saltwater fish. I had > a 10 gal. freshwater tank several years ago. Ahter my 'little' brother > got tired of his. Now I'm ready to get serious about having a really > nice tank. I know nothing about saltwater fish or whether they are easy > and are having corals very difficult. But I've been trying to read as > much as I could on them. Could you tell me the pros and cons about > saltwater fish with or without corals. > I Texas from Florida! I started with a small aquarium and now have a 40 galllon tank and enjoy it so much more. So much more room to decorate, much more room for the fish, that are growing and thriving more than they did in the smaller tank. I have a fresh water tank , the reason being a salt water hobby is very expensive and harder to maintain. Although the fish are more beautiful , they are also much more expensive. I have a friend with a salt water tank and he has a professional come in once a month to check it, which is not free. One thing I did learn from reading and posting on qroups is the importance of a good filter. I have a bio wheel, expensive but worth it. Also, not to overcrowd the tank, i have had my new tank since x-mas and have not lost one fish. Also, a good cover to avoid evaportation as adding water to frequently can upset the ph of the tank. I am about to be a fish grandma, my platy is going to have babies. Platys are very easy to keep, and they come in such beautiful varieties / colors. Can't wait to see what comes from the hanky panky that was going on in the tank..lol Good luck, hope this helped. Viv

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28030	From: Dave Roberts	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

I would probably recommend a bigger tank for stability (slower for a tank crash if you goof) and fresh water. Fresh water usually has a lower cost to entry and cheaper fish. I have 4 tanks (5, 10, 45, 75) and the bigger tanks are more tolerant of skipping a cleaning or water change. I also run African Cichlids in the 75 and many guests assume it is a salt water tank since the fish are so colorful and large. -Dave Roberts Massachusetts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28031	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: White poop - Was - thank you

In a message dated 5/27/2008 9:57:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Like someone else already advised, moving the sick fish to a H-tank would be best so you can observe it better. Look at it's poop which is a good indicator of things that might be going on. If the poop is long, white colored and stringy, it could be a parasitic issue or digestive tract bacterial issue. Also, a sick fish is more likely to be bullied by other fish so moving it to it's own tank gives it peace of mind (thus less stress) so it has a better chance to recover. Uh oh - my sailfin molly female has white poop - she is white and I just noticed the male has black poop. Is white poop a sure sign of a problem? **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28032	From: sullllly	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

I am no expert on salt water but there was a time when I looked into it.From what experts have told me when I did was this. That with salt and the kind of fish you want to have start at 90gal or above. Unless you want to do a small reef tank with clowns or something similar. The difference as far as I can see is that you need a protein skimmer,hydrometer(to measure salinity,inexpensive) When you do water changes you have to mix instant ocean or a like product.(this is a continued cost,Each water change will cost you) The marine fish cost 3 times or more that of fresh. Bottom line is there is not so much of a difference aside from price and the option of being able to stock inverts and live rock and everything else that will live in salt and not fresh. If I had the money to put to it I would love to have a large marine tank. The reason I say large is because space becomes more of an issue with the fish and chemistry stability then freshwater (unless you do a small nano reef tank which usually consists of a clown or two.(nemo) > > Hi, I live in Tx. but was raised in In. I have 6 recued dogs and 2 > Siamese. I have decided to get an aquaruim. Now for the hard part. Do I > want a 12 or 29 gal. tank. And do I want fresh or saltwater fish. I had > a 10 gal. freshwater tank several years ago. Ahter my 'little' brother > got tired of his. Now I'm ready to get serious about having a really > nice tank. I know nothing about saltwater fish or whether they are easy > and are having corals very difficult. But I've been trying to read as > much as I could on them. Could you tell me the pros and cons about > saltwater fish with or without corals. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28033	From: sullllly	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: My two 55gal tanks on youtube.

go to youtube.com In video search type mfimhpt2

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28034	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: My two 55gal tanks on youtube.

We have the same tank decorator :) I have flowerpots everywhere. Good video. -Mike go to youtube.com In video search type mfimhpt2 -----Original Message----- From: sullllly <kevinflea@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 27 May 2008 5:27 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] My two 55gal tanks on youtube. go to youtube.com In video search type mfimhpt2 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28035	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

If you have a choice, and enough room and money for the 29 gallon tank, it will be easier to get the bacterial and chemical balance going and maintain, and you'll have less trouble with more fish than the tank's biology can handle duirng the first couple of months. I think that tropical fish are easier to work with than salt water, and I've seen recent statements on one of these lists that they're also cheaper to maintain. Where in Texas do you live? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: susieharden To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Decisions, decisions Hi, I live in Tx. but was raised in In. I have 6 recued dogs and 2 Siamese. I have decided to get an aquaruim. Now for the hard part. Do I want a 12 or 29 gal. tank. And do I want fresh or saltwater fish. I had a 10 gal. freshwater tank several years ago. Ahter my 'little' brother got tired of his. Now I'm ready to get serious about having a really nice tank. I know nothing about saltwater fish or whether they are easy and are having corals very difficult. But I've been trying to read as much as I could on them. Could you tell me the pros and cons about saltwater fish with or without corals.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28036	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: My two 55gal tanks on youtube.

That's a creative setup! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: sullllly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 7:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] My two 55gal tanks on youtube. go to youtube.com In video search type mfimhpt2 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28037	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: angel fish...

Hi List, I have a question about my angels. I have two. Tonight I noticed that they are locking lips. I've never seen them do that before. Are they fighting? Is this normal? I can separate them if I need to. The bigger one has also shown aggression towards a couple of the mollies where as before it ignored them. I appreciate any help on this. Thanks, Traci Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28038	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

Whether to go freshwater or salt is a personal decision, and you can find arguments for and against both sides. Find and read material on both sides, and decide where to go from there. Personally, I'm a FW guy, and I do not feel that I have the time nor energy to do a proper marine tank, but that is me. You may be different. As a novice, you'll want to go with the largest tank you have money and space for, no matter which way you go. The water volume will give you more room for error, and, believe me, you will error. A few simple water tests will tell you which fish you should be looking at to keep. It is far easier to match the fish to the water than it is to change the water to suit the fish. People will recommend you go to this or that site for information, but do yourself a favor and get a good book to start. Look for the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1. There is a good section on setting up an aquarium, one on plants and then there are the fish. Hundreds of fish, each with a photo and description covering items like water parameters, feeding, breeding, aggressiveness, etc. Since you will be starting fresh, consider seriously doing a fishless cycle with your tank. This is where you will setup the tank, then add enough plain ammonia to measure at 5 ppm. This is plain ammonia, no detergents, scents, etc. Check ammonia every day and add ammonia each day until it is again at 5 ppm. When all the ammonia is gone after 24 hours, check the nitrites until they reach zero, again adding ammonia to bring the tank to 5 ppm. When the nitrites reach zero, you are ready to start populating the tank. (This has been the simplified, condensed version--you can find more info online about this method.) You can add plants while you are doing this, the ammonia and nitrite levels will not harm the plants, and it will give them a chance to get established and start processing the nitrates, which is the end result of the nitrogen cycle in an aquarium. It is better to have your tank appear under-stocked than over-stocked. You are bound to run across rules that simply are not viable, like the one inch of fish per gallon rule. There is actually a formula out there that does work, but it is too complicated for most folks, so those who have experience can gauge when enough is enough. Size does matter, but not in the way most people would think. As you progress, feel free to ask questions about information you run across or about fish or about anything you'd like (well, for this list it should be fish related <g>). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of susieharden Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Decisions, decisions Hi, I live in Tx. but was raised in In. I have 6 recued dogs and 2 Siamese. I have decided to get an aquaruim. Now for the hard part. Do I want a 12 or 29 gal. tank. And do I want fresh or saltwater fish. I had a 10 gal. freshwater tank several years ago. Ahter my 'little' brother got tired of his. Now I'm ready to get serious about having a really nice tank. I know nothing about saltwater fish or whether they are easy and are having corals very difficult. But I've been trying to read as much as I could on them. Could you tell me the pros and cons about saltwater fish with or without corals.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28039	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

I live in Red Oak, south of Dallas. I think I will get the 29 freshwater Marine tank. I have been thinking about a whimsical theme like Nemo but I can't find a 'Little Mermaid' for it. My daughter likes that one. Even if she is 42 and lives in Ky. Have a 'Be Happy' day. Susie In a message dated 5/27/2008 8:51:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: If you have a choice, and enough room and money for the 29 gallon tank, it will be easier to get the bacterial and chemical balance going and maintain, and you'll have less trouble with more fish than the tank's biology can handle duirng the first couple of months. I think that tropical fish are easier to work with than salt water, and I've seen recent statements on one of these lists that they're also cheaper to maintain. Where in Texas do you live? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) ----- Original Message ----- From: susieharden To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Decisions, decisions Hi, I live in Tx. but was raised in In. I have 6 recued dogs and 2 Siamese. I have decided to get an aquaruim. Now for the hard part. Do I want a 12 or 29 gal. tank. And do I want fresh or saltwater fish. I had a 10 gal. freshwater tank several years ago. Ahter my 'little' brother got tired of his. Now I'm ready to get serious about having a really nice tank. I know nothing about saltwater fish or whether they are easy and are having corals very difficult. But I've been trying to read as much as I could on them. Could you tell me the pros and cons about saltwater fish with or without corals. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28040	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: White poop - Was - thank you

Here are some poop diagnosis pages. They mainly deal with goldfish but I find they are mostly applicable to tropical fish also. It's just that goldfish keepers have put together a lot more information dealing strictly with goldfish. Another big difference between goldfish and tropical's is that goldfish do not have much of a stomach so food is processed through their digestive tract much quicker so the color of the poop is supposed to be the color of whatever they ate. Most of the tropical fish that I've owned do not exhibit this trait. http://www.goldfishutopia.com/information.php?pID=20&sid=b38c8e2513edb2b00d3 07967e7c20036 http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 White poop with a female could be reabsorbed eggs with egg layers but I'm not sure with live bearers like your molly. Maybe someone who is more familiar with live bearers can answer whether they can have the reabsorbed eggs issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 5:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] White poop - Was - thank you In a message dated 5/27/2008 9:57:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Like someone else already advised, moving the sick fish to a H-tank would be best so you can observe it better. Look at it's poop which is a good indicator of things that might be going on. If the poop is long, white colored and stringy, it could be a parasitic issue or digestive tract bacterial issue. Also, a sick fish is more likely to be bullied by other fish so moving it to it's own tank gives it peace of mind (thus less stress) so it has a better chance to recover. Uh oh - my sailfin molly female has white poop - she is white and I just noticed the male has black poop. Is white poop a sure sign of a problem? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1468 - Release Date: 5/26/2008 3:23 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28041	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: angel fish...

Traci, While it may be that you have 2 males and they are getting territorial as they mature, with the larger one being dominent and the most aggressive (as they may behave in the manner you describe), its also quite possible that you have a pair bond forming between a male and female. The larger (male) would still retain his aggressiveness (even against heterospecifics such as your Mollies) as he would be establishing his breeding territory in this case -- and wouldn't want any other fish within his area. If the latter is the case, as very well might be, you should soon see the pair cleaning off a spawning site, if the smaller Angelfish (female?) does not back down from this lip-locking spawning ritual and both Angels accept each other as partners. As I did first mention it though, this lip-locking behavior may just be aggression between 2 males -- only time will tell, which should prove to be shortly. At this time, I would give them a surface as an egg depository in close proximity to where he (larger Angel) is mostly staying/guarding in anticipation to them spawning. This surface, such as a length of slate or rock, etc., should be set up against the aquarium wall at a 75 o angle to the horizontal, unless you don't mind them spawning on a plant leaf or filter tube, should it come to that. At this same time you might want to plan what you will do if and when eggs are laid (remove all other fish except for the other Angel, remove the eggs to a hatching tank, remove the possible pair to a tank of their own). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Swatek-Rice, Traci" <t- swatek@...> wrote: > > Hi List, > > I have a question about my angels. I have two. Tonight I noticed that > they are locking lips. I've never seen them do that before. Are they > fighting? Is this normal? I can separate them if I need to. The bigger > one has also shown aggression towards a couple of the mollies where > as before it ignored them. I appreciate any help on this. > > Thanks, > Traci > > Traci Swatek-Rice > Hazmat Technician > DMOS5 manufacturing > Texas Instruments > <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28042	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

Well it is not the Little Mermaid but there are Mermaids out there you can use. http://www.slomermaid.com/shop/SLOstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=Products I am fairly certain I have the "Robin" and "Kathy" Mermaids. I may have a third one as well, packed in a box somewhere. Oh, I just put the SLO mermaid sticker on my car window 3 days ago so Everyone can know I am a fish geek :) -Mike I live in Red Oak, south of Dallas. I think I will get the 29 freshwater Marine tank. I have been thinking about a whimsical theme like Nemo but I can't find a 'Little Mermaid' for it. My daughter likes that one. Even if she is 42 and lives in Ky. Have a 'Be Happy' day. Susie -----Original Message----- From: sharden47@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 27 May 2008 8:15 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Decisions, decisions I live in Red Oak, south of Dallas. I think I will get the 29 freshwater Marine tank. I have been thinking about a whimsical theme like Nemo but I can't find a 'Little Mermaid' for it. My daughter likes that one. Even if she is 42 and lives in Ky. Have a 'Be Happy' day. Susie In a message dated 5/27/2008 8:51:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: If you have a choice, and enough room and money for the 29 gallon tank, it will be easier to get the bacterial and chemical balance going and maintain, and you'll have less trouble with more fish than the tank's biology can handle duirng the first couple of months. I think that tropical fish are easier to work with than salt water, and I've seen recent statements on one of these lists that they're also cheaper to maintain. Where in Texas do you live? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) ----- Original Message ----- From: susieharden To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Decisions, decisions Hi, I live in Tx. but was raised in In. I have 6 recued dogs and 2 Siamese. I have decided to get an aquaruim. Now for the hard part. Do I want a 12 or 29 gal. tank. And do I want fresh or saltwater fish. I had a 10 gal. freshwater tank several years ago. Ahter my 'little' brother got tired of his. Now I'm ready to get serious about having a really nice tank. I know nothing about saltwater fish or whether they are easy and are having corals very difficult. But I've been trying to read as much as I could on them. Could you tell me the pros and cons about saltwater fish with or without corals. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28043	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/27/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

Mike, Those don't look like mermaids to me. Those are little naked girls. LOL Just kidding... although none of them have a mermaids lower body with scales and fins except that Missy does have some kind of scales and fins on her lower legs but the rest of them are basically little nude figurines posing on various aquaria pieces. LOL I hope you don't drive near any elementary schools. I guess you might be OK with the sticker on your car though.. I see the logo for the company does show the typical mermaid with the lower body of a fish. I wonder why they didn't just go with the typical mermaid in all of their figurines? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 11:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Decisions, decisions Well it is not the Little Mermaid but there are Mermaids out there you can use. http://www.slomermaid.com/shop/SLOstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=Produc ts <http://www.slomermaid.com/shop/SLOstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=Produ cts> I am fairly certain I have the "Robin" and "Kathy" Mermaids. I may have a third one as well, packed in a box somewhere. Oh, I just put the SLO mermaid sticker on my car window 3 days ago so Everyone can know I am a fish geek :) -Mike I live in Red Oak, south of Dallas. I think I will get the 29 freshwater Marine tank. I have been thinking about a whimsical theme like Nemo but I can't find a 'Little Mermaid' for it. My daughter likes that one. Even if she is 42 and lives in Ky. Have a 'Be Happy' day. Susie -----Original Message----- From: sharden47@... <mailto:sharden47%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 27 May 2008 8:15 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Decisions, decisions I live in Red Oak, south of Dallas. I think I will get the 29 freshwater Marine tank. I have been thinking about a whimsical theme like Nemo but I can't find a 'Little Mermaid' for it. My daughter likes that one. Even if she is 42 and lives in Ky. Have a 'Be Happy' day. Susie In a message dated 5/27/2008 8:51:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> writes: If you have a choice, and enough room and money for the 29 gallon tank, it will be easier to get the bacterial and chemical balance going and maintain, and you'll have less trouble with more fish than the tank's biology can handle duirng the first couple of months. I think that tropical fish are easier to work with than salt water, and I've seen recent statements on one of these lists that they're also cheaper to maintain. Where in Texas do you live? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ) ----- Original Message ----- From: susieharden To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ) Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Decisions, decisions Hi, I live in Tx. but was raised in In. I have 6 recued dogs and 2 Siamese. I have decided to get an aquaruim. Now for the hard part. Do I want a 12 or 29 gal. tank. And do I want fresh or saltwater fish. I had a 10 gal. freshwater tank several years ago. Ahter my 'little' brother got tired of his. Now I'm ready to get serious about having a really nice tank. I know nothing about saltwater fish or whether they are easy and are having corals very difficult. But I've been trying to read as much as I could on them. Could you tell me the pros and cons about saltwater fish with or without corals. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1468 - Release Date: 5/26/2008 3:23 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28044	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

Hi Lenny, I don't know but I can find out why, it may take a while to get an answer. Last I heard he will still be coming out with newer pieces, perhaps we can get you a really scaly one :) I do know he was meticulous about what you see before you. They really are no worse than most of the original mermaids that came out in the hobby over the last century, but our modern day prudes occasionally complain about them in the stores. But young women on magazine covers in the grocery check out lines can show all but that "area" with low cut tops and bikini outfits and see through tops. Not that I have a problem with it. Mike In a message dated 5/27/2008 10:02:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Those don't look like mermaids to me. Those are little naked girls. LOL Just kidding... although none of them have a mermaids lower body with scales and fins except that Missy does have some kind of scales and fins on her lower legs but the rest of them are basically little nude figurines posing on various aquaria pieces. LOL I hope you don't drive near any elementary schools. I guess you might be OK with the sticker on your car though.. I see the logo for the company does show the typical mermaid with the lower body of a fish. I wonder why they didn't just go with the typical mermaid in all of their figurines? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28045	From: Jim	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping

Well i have done some searching and found a kinda local club and also found a bunch of sites so i will be busy for a while reading on the fourms. I also talked the wife into letting me get a couple books so i have been searching amazon trying to figure out what book i will get first. I am debating between "The New Marine Aquarium: Step-By-Step Setup & Stocking Guide" and "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist: A Commonsense Handbook for Successful Saltwater Hobbyists". Well off to do more forum reading I will keep everyone posted on my progress.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28046	From: pedunson	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Pregnant Platy

Hi Vivian, If If you dont want live plants and its only on a temporary basis.. a good hiding place for the platy fry is plastic straw or plastic strips (some use colored plastic bags cut into thin strips) tied together on one end to a stone or any heavy material that will hold the straw/plastic down in the floor of the tank. the height, width or thickness of the straws are all up to you. the materials are all disosable so its very easy to change them once it gets dirty. ped --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "vivian bradish" <viv32117@...> wrote: > > I have a Platy about ready to give birth. I do not know if I should > get one of those floating birthing cages because I understand it can > stress the mother. However, my aquarium does not have a lot of > vegetation or hiding places for the little ones to escape to. I really > do not want live plants in my tank. Should I get a birthing cage or > should I just float some artificial vegetation on the top? > > Thanks > Vivian >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28047	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to site and fish keeping

Try the library first for books, and then if you find one you like (for free) you can buy it. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 3:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New to site and fish keeping Well i have done some searching and found a kinda local club and also found a bunch of sites so i will be busy for a while reading on the fourms. I also talked the wife into letting me get a couple books so i have been searching amazon trying to figure out what book i will get first. I am debating between "The New Marine Aquarium: Step-By-Step Setup & Stocking Guide" and "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist: A Commonsense Handbook for Successful Saltwater Hobbyists". Well off to do more forum reading I will keep everyone posted on my progress. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28048	From: frankhall70	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: a lid or not a lid that is the question

hi peeps , i have a tank for fish but it has no lid can i still use it, i also have a filter for it?, take care all, regards emma.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28049	From: hamrad45	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Changing Ph

I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in the tank as it has a high chlorine content. Any idea what could have caused this change? Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. Thanks for your time, Tom

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28050	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

Tom, Acidification of the aquarium water is a natural tendency of the process of your ongoing nitrogen cycle. I would not do anything to abruptly change the pH in adjusting it back to 7.6, but for ease of maintenance it would be a good idea to start taking steps in that direction. There are several interacting factors going on here with the water of all tanks, as the nitrogen cycle progresses, but your one tank in question is undergoing this at a faster rate. One of these factors is your buffering capacity of your water which, all coming from the same source (your tap) in each tank, is of necessity consistant with that of any other tank. Therefore, the difference for the pH in one tank from the others is the particular tank's infrastructure (including its environmental materials and its bioload). For starters, we can address the possibility of different substrate, rocks or any other carbonate sources in this tank as opposed to your other tanks -- which may have more of these materials. Barring that possibility, if all the tanks' materials are uniform, we can look at any differences in your filtration systems between all your tanks. The tank in question may not have adequate filtration, or may even have more filtration than your other tanks, resulting in more efficient break-down (and increased acidification) of its wastes before their physical removal via PWC's (partial water changes). Part of this difference may be the result of a difference you may be making in cleaning each tanks' substrate or in maintaining each individual filter. Lastly, BUT FAR FROM LEAST, is the possibility of this tank in question having a larger bioload than the other tanks, which will increase the acidification of the water at a faster rate if the same comparable PWC amounts are made with all tanks (and all other factors are equal). This was my first inclination as to this tanks' difference and I would venture to guess its one of your 10 gallon tanks rather than your 20, but not actually knowing the size of or how many fish you have in this tank, I cannot say for sure -- I only note that you state "all tanks have about the same fish types." After checking out the first few items in an effort towards more possible consistancy, I would recommend your employing larger weekly PWC's, i.e., if you're doing 20% PWC's on your other tanks, do 35% PWC's for a brief period until your pH comes back up to 7.6, after which 25% or 30% PWC's may be adequate -- but again, look at all possibilities mentioned here to better stabilze things. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hamrad45" <hamrad@...> wrote: > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All > thanks have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have > noticed over the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is > now 6.0. Note that the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water > conditioner to it before putting in the tank as it has a high chlorine > content. > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat > fish). The tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been > in there for some time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28051	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question

Emma, You may use this tank temporarily in this condition (sans lid), but be advised that most any and all fish may jump, at any time. For this reason, I would recommend your replacing this lid as soon is its convenient for you to do so, or at least install a 1/4" thick (1/8" thick warps) lucite -- or plexiglass -- lid in the meantime. Until you can address this issue, keep the water level down about 3" to 4" from the rim to discourage any suicidal tendancies. Keeping a small night light on helps prevent jumpings when fish are suddenly startled in the dark (they may bump into each other, not really knowing what's occurring). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "frankhall70" <frankhall70@...> wrote: > > hi peeps , i have a tank for fish but it has no lid can i still use it, > i also have a filter for it?, take care all, regards emma. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28052	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question

You can use it but there is always a chance that one or more of your fish might jump out which could be lethal to them. What kind of fish do you have or are you planning for the tank? Some fish are more likely to jump than others. If I remember correctly, you are just getting started. Something you can do to get more equipment without having to spend a lot of money (or maybe no money) is to check out your local http://www.FreeCycle.org group. You might find a lid for your tank or you might find a larger entire system that someone is giving away. Also check the free listings on http://www.CraigsList.com and your local newspapers, flea markets and garage sales. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frankhall70 Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] a lid or not a lid that is the question hi peeps , i have a tank for fish but it has no lid can i still use it, i also have a filter for it?, take care all, regards emma. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28053	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down over time unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to increase the PWC schedule on that tank. Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other things and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace minerals and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure and vacuum the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow down the lowering of the pH. Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus from the filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. I have a long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and CO2 from breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals in the water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and do more PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's ecology is different and what works for one tank might not work for another tank. You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get much too large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a 35G tank. The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large for a 10G or 20G tank also. Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality issues but it will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune systems and shorten their lifespans. If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what kind of fish you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hamrad45 Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in the tank as it has a high chlorine content. Any idea what could have caused this change? Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. Thanks for your time, Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28054	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

Thanks a bunch. Susie In a message dated 5/27/2008 11:08:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Deenerz@... writes: Well it is not the Little Mermaid but there are Mermaids out there you can use. _http://www.slomermahttp://www.shttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.&<WBR>cate<WBR>ca t_ (http://www.slomermaid.com/shop/SLOstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=Products) I am fairly certain I have the "Robin" and "Kathy" Mermaids. I may have a third one as well, packed in a box somewhere. Oh, I just put the SLO mermaid sticker on my car window 3 days ago so Everyone can know I am a fish geek :) -Mike I live in Red Oak, south of Dallas. I think I will get the 29 freshwater Marine tank. I have been thinking about a whimsical theme like Nemo but I can't find a 'Little Mermaid' for it. My daughter likes that one. Even if she is 42 and lives in Ky. Have a 'Be Happy' day. Susie -----Original Message----- From: _sharden47@..._ (mailto:sharden47@...) To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Tue, 27 May 2008 8:15 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Decisions, decisions I live in Red Oak, south of Dallas. I think I will get the 29 freshwater Marine tank. I have been thinking about a whimsical theme like Nemo but I can't find a 'Little Mermaid' for it. My daughter likes that one. Even if she is 42 and lives in Ky. Have a 'Be Happy' day. Susie In a message dated 5/27/2008 8:51:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) writes: If you have a choice, and enough room and money for the 29 gallon tank, it will be easier to get the bacterial and chemical balance going and maintain, and you'll have less trouble with more fish than the tank's biology can handle duirng the first couple of months. I think that tropical fish are easier to work with than salt water, and I've seen recent statements on one of these lists that they're also cheaper to maintain. Where in Texas do you live? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@_tiggernut24@<WBR>t_tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) ) ----- Original Message ----- From: susieharden To: _AquaticLife@To: _AquTo: _Aqua_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Decisions, decisions Hi, I live in Tx. but was raised in In. I have 6 recued dogs and 2 Siamese. I have decided to get an aquaruim. Now for the hard part. Do I want a 12 or 29 gal. tank. And do I want fresh or saltwater fish. I had a 10 gal. freshwater tank several years ago. Ahter my 'little' brother got tired of his. Now I'm ready to get serious about having a really nice tank. I know nothing about saltwater fish or whether they are easy and are having corals very difficult. But I've been trying to read as much as I could on them. Could you tell me the pros and cons about saltwater fish with or without corals. ************************<WBR>**Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Wat Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (_http://food.http://food.<Whttp://fohttp://&??<WBR>NCID=aolfo?<WBR>NCI_ (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28055	From: frank hall	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question

thanks who replied, i dont have my fish yet as we dont have a tank ive tried freecycle but had no luck as yet ive just applied for a fish tank but we will see what happens, we are only getting cold water fish at the moment but might change later on, thanks emma. "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: You can use it but there is always a chance that one or more of your fish might jump out which could be lethal to them. What kind of fish do you have or are you planning for the tank? Some fish are more likely to jump than others. If I remember correctly, you are just getting started. Something you can do to get more equipment without having to spend a lot of money (or maybe no money) is to check out your local http://www.FreeCycle.org group. You might find a lid for your tank or you might find a larger entire system that someone is giving away. Also check the free listings on http://www.CraigsList.com and your local newspapers, flea markets and garage sales. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frankhall70 Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] a lid or not a lid that is the question hi peeps , i have a tank for fish but it has no lid can i still use it, i also have a filter for it?, take care all, regards emma. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28056	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question

One last note... Something I probably need to edit into the 10G Stocking List is the long finned Zebra Danio's. Since they are long finned, they don't swim as fast so they can work in a 10G. The regular ZD's are really fast swimmers so a 10G isn't the best thing for them since they don't have much swimming room. Fancy tailed fish, for the most part, are much slower swimmers but I'll have to check to see if the long finned ZD's are slower than regular ZD's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frank hall Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] a lid or not a lid that is the question thanks who replied, i dont have my fish yet as we dont have a tank ive tried freecycle but had no luck as yet ive just applied for a fish tank but we will see what happens, we are only getting cold water fish at the moment but might change later on, thanks emma. "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: You can use it but there is always a chance that one or more of your fish might jump out which could be lethal to them. What kind of fish do you have or are you planning for the tank? Some fish are more likely to jump than others. If I remember correctly, you are just getting started. Something you can do to get more equipment without having to spend a lot of money (or maybe no money) is to check out your local http://www.FreeCycle.org <http://www.FreeCycle.org> group. You might find a lid for your tank or you might find a larger entire system that someone is giving away. Also check the free listings on http://www.CraigsList.com <http://www.CraigsList.com> and your local newspapers, flea markets and garage sales. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of frankhall70 Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] a lid or not a lid that is the question hi peeps , i have a tank for fish but it has no lid can i still use it, i also have a filter for it?, take care all, regards emma. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28057	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: White poop - Was - thank you

Thanks Lenny - those were some funky feces photos. I'm going to be checking on her. In a message dated 5/27/2008 11:45:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Here are some poop diagnosis pages. They mainly deal with goldfish but I find they are mostly applicable to tropical fish also. It's just that goldfish keepers have put together a lot more information dealing strictly with goldfish. Another big difference between goldfish and tropical's is that goldfish do not have much of a stomach so food is processed through their digestive tract much quicker so the color of the poop is supposed to be the color of whatever they ate. Most of the tropical fish that I've owned do not exhibit this trait. http://www.goldfishutopia.com/information.php?pID=20&sid=b38c8e2513edb2b00d3 07967e7c20036 http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 White poop with a female could be reabsorbed eggs with egg layers but I'm not sure with live bearers like your molly. Maybe someone who is more familiar with live bearers can answer whether they can have the reabsorbed eggs issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 5:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] White poop - Was - thank you In a message dated 5/27/2008 9:57:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Like someone else already advised, moving the sick fish to a H-tank would be best so you can observe it better. Look at it's poop which is a good indicator of things that might be going on. If the poop is long, white colored and stringy, it could be a parasitic issue or digestive tract bacterial issue. Also, a sick fish is more likely to be bullied by other fish so moving it to it's own tank gives it peace of mind (thus less stress) so it has a better chance to recover. Uh oh - my sailfin molly female has white poop - she is white and I just noticed the male has black poop. Is white poop a sure sign of a problem? **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28059	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

Welp, if you're feeling a little destructive, you can get this and do a little "surgery" to it to get your desired decore. ;) http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18539 -Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28060	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I took out of the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the back of hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there because it contains good bacteria? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down over time unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to increase the PWC schedule on that tank. Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other things and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace minerals and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure and vacuum the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow down the lowering of the pH. Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus from the filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. I have a long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and CO2 from breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals in the water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and do more PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's ecology is different and what works for one tank might not work for another tank. You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get much too large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a 35G tank. The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large for a 10G or 20G tank also. Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality issues but it will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune systems and shorten their lifespans. If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what kind of fish you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hamrad45 Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in the tank as it has a high chlorine content. Any idea what could have caused this change? Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. Thanks for your time, Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28061	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

ok thanks Susie In a message dated 5/28/2008 3:23:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dragon.hunter@... writes: Welp, if you're feeling a little destructive, you can get this and do a little "surgery" to it to get your desired decore. ;) _http://www.drsfostehttp://www.http://www.drhttp://www.dhttp://www.d_ (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18539) -Steve **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28062	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

While I'm sure some of the bacteria do live on the mulm, the majority of it lives on the individual strands and surface areas of the actual filter media. The N-bacteria need ammonia/nitrite but they also need lots of O2 which they get from a constant supply of water flowing over them. When the mulm buildup gets too thick so that the water doesn't flow through the filter and instead flows over the top of the filter cartridge, the N-bacteria will start to die off due to lack of O2. I do filter maintenance on one of my filter systems every week. I have two systems on my 65G tank so I am technically doing filter maintenance every two weeks on each system. I've read where some people wait until the filter system water flow slows down before doing cleaning but I think this is waiting too long. For one thing, it's allowing a lot of mulm/detritus to build up and decay back into the tank. As I stated above, it also blocks the water flowing to the N-bacteria so it starts to kill them off also. Seriously... it's bad enough that we make our fish swim around in their own pee and poop for a week before doing a PWC... for those of us that do weekly PWC's. Imagine what the water must be like after the fish have been in it for a month or more like some folks wait between doing PWC's? It's too bad our fish can't scream like a baby with a dirty diaper. That would sure surprise the heck of out someone who likes to wait a long time between PWC's. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I took out of the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the back of hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there because it contains good bacteria? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down over time unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to increase the PWC schedule on that tank. Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other things and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace minerals and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure and vacuum the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow down the lowering of the pH. Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus from the filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. I have a long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and CO2 from breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals in the water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and do more PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's ecology is different and what works for one tank might not work for another tank. You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get much too large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a 35G tank. The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large for a 10G or 20G tank also. Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality issues but it will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune systems and shorten their lifespans. If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what kind of fish you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hamrad45 Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in the tank as it has a high chlorine content. Any idea what could have caused this change? Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. Thanks for your time, Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28063	From: sullllly	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

I would check my nitrate level. Whats your nitrate level before and after a water change. In a small aquarium thats over stocked a small weekly water change may not be suffcient. Its my understanding that the nitrate level can effect the ph level and its my guess (I could be wrong, but have a feeling) that your going to find that your nitrate level is going to be higher in the tank with the low ph. If so this is an indication that you need to clean more and change more water. Also some decorations IE wood can lower ph. If you can test for a nitrate level on this tank please let me know I would be curious. Under 40ppm is good. > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I took out of > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the back of > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there because it > contains good bacteria? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down over time > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to increase the > PWC schedule on that tank. > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other things > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace minerals > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure and vacuum > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow down the > lowering of the pH. > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus from the > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. I have a > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and CO2 from > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals in the > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and do more > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's ecology > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another tank. > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get much too > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a 35G tank. > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large for a > 10G or 20G tank also. > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality issues but it > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune systems > and shorten their lifespans. > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what kind of fish > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of hamrad45 > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 > 7:20 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28064	From: Kevin	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question

My reasons for using a lid. If you keep fish that jump. Heat loss from the water to ambient air. evaporation of the water. You can make a cover out of Acrylic sheets(hardware store). - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "frankhall70" <frankhall70@...> wrote: > > hi peeps , i have a tank for fish but it has no lid can i still use it, > i also have a filter for it?, take care all, regards emma. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28065	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

I don't think it's the nitrate, per se, that affects the pH level (maybe if the nitrate level got really high.. 300ppm+) but rather the fact that if you have a high nitrate level... 50ppm+, then your N-bacteria (and other bacteria) have been working hard consuming all of the ammonia/nitrite and when they are doing their jobs, they also use a lot of the trace elements and minerals in the water. As these levels (KH, etc.) go down, the pH goes down also. Further, as the bacteria works on the decaying detritus, they put out a lot of carbonic acid, CO2, etc. which further lowers the pH level. That's one of the reasons we use the nitrate test level as an indicator of when a PWC is needed but it should not be the only indicator. If you have hard water with a high KH level, the pH will be less affected by the ecology of the tank whereas soft water with a low KH level will be more affected by the ecology of the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sullllly Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph I would check my nitrate level. Whats your nitrate level before and after a water change. In a small aquarium thats over stocked a small weekly water change may not be suffcient. Its my understanding that the nitrate level can effect the ph level and its my guess (I could be wrong, but have a feeling) that your going to find that your nitrate level is going to be higher in the tank with the low ph. If so this is an indication that you need to clean more and change more water. Also some decorations IE wood can lower ph. If you can test for a nitrate level on this tank please let me know I would be curious. Under 40ppm is good. > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I took out of > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the back of > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there because it > contains good bacteria? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down over time > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to increase the > PWC schedule on that tank. > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other things > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace minerals > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure and vacuum > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow down the > lowering of the pH. > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus from the > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. I have a > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and CO2 from > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals in the > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and do more > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's ecology > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another tank. > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get much too > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a 35G tank. > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large for a > 10G or 20G tank also. > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality issues but it > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune systems > and shorten their lifespans. > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what kind of fish > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of hamrad45 > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28066	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2008
Subject: Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question

Good points Kevin. An uncovered tank will lose an inch a week, or more, to evaporation. Of course, if you have coldwater fish, hopefully the room (ambient) temp is in the low 70's so evaporation will not be as much of an issue. If the room temp is higher than the low 70's, then leaving it uncovered might be better to allow the water to cool itself via evaporation. There are steps that should be taken when doing PWC's and topping off a tank that has a high evaporation rate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: a lid or not a lid that is the question My reasons for using a lid. If you keep fish that jump. Heat loss from the water to ambient air. evaporation of the water. You can make a cover out of Acrylic sheets(hardware store). - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "frankhall70" <frankhall70@...> wrote: > > hi peeps , i have a tank for fish but it has no lid can i still use it, > i also have a filter for it?, take care all, regards emma. > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28067	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

Dora, An often overlooked (or unknown by the hobbyist) facet of the maintenance of aquarium filters, their materials and the substrate of the tank concerning the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria you refer to, and the "gunk" (mulm) -- or more properly "sludge" as its found as a more compacted "yellow gook" in the filter is that while there are some nitrifying bacteria colonizing the surface of this sludge, internally this waste material is being colonized by heterotrophic bacteria which are anaerobic. As opposed to our beneficial aerobic nitrifiers, these anaerobic bacteria are often harmful in additionally creating noxious gases such as methane, which is poisonous to the fish and depending upon the species of these heterotrophic bacteria they may occasionally revert the dissimilation (rather than denitrification) of these nitrogenous compounds converting nitrate to nitrite and finally into ammonia. For this reason alone, these materials should be removed from filters whenever observed and should NOT be allowed to accumulate; this bacteria's harmful effects far outweighs any benefits the beneficial bacteria may offer and its non-productive in allowing beneficial bacteria to colonize this sludge. Getting back to filters, materials and substrates, for best and most efficient employment of all of your nitrifying bacteria the surfaces of these sites should NEVER be allowed to build up any quantities of mulm (in this case it is considered "mulm") and it should be kept to a minimum -- not only to prevent the obvious reduction in water flow but to maintain your bacteria populations at their peak at all times - - and while reduced water flow equates to reduced oxygen to these bacteria there is an overlooked element that is not realized. Most hobbyists are not aware of the detrimental effects to their nitrifying bacteria, of the build-up of mulm and debris in their filters and on the surfaces of their substrate. Since the Nitrospira and Nitrobacter (nitrite converting bacteria) are totally dependant on the productions of nitrite by the Nitrosomonas (ammonia converting bacteria) and while they are found in close proximety to these bacteria (populating the same surfaces), even though they will now be taking their nutrients out of the water column their (Nitrospira and Nitrobacter) physical closeness to the Nitrosomonas enables (and encourages) them to take direct advantage of the nitrites immediately being produced by these Nitrosomonas. Not especially a bad thing -- but when the bio-film is allowed to excessively build up, these Nitrospiras and Nitrobacters can multiply to the effect of overwhelming the Nitrosomonas, starving them of oxygen. This has the effect of reducing the amounts of ammonia being converted with the resultant starving out of the Nitrospiras and Nitrobacters of food. A dangerous and detrimental downward spiral takes effect. For this reason, while these surfaces do not need to be spotless, any build-up of mulm and/or the excessive build-up of their bio-film should be discouraged. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > While I'm sure some of the bacteria do live on the mulm, the majority of it > lives on the individual strands and surface areas of the actual filter > media. The N-bacteria need ammonia/nitrite but they also need lots of O2 > which they get from a constant supply of water flowing over them. When the > mulm buildup gets too thick so that the water doesn't flow through the > filter and instead flows over the top of the filter cartridge, the > N-bacteria will start to die off due to lack of O2. > > I do filter maintenance on one of my filter systems every week. I have two > systems on my 65G tank so I am technically doing filter maintenance every > two weeks on each system. I've read where some people wait until the filter > system water flow slows down before doing cleaning but I think this is > waiting too long. For one thing, it's allowing a lot of mulm/detritus to > build up and decay back into the tank. As I stated above, it also blocks > the water flowing to the N-bacteria so it starts to kill them off also. > > Seriously... it's bad enough that we make our fish swim around in their own > pee and poop for a week before doing a PWC... for those of us that do weekly > PWC's. Imagine what the water must be like after the fish have been in it > for a month or more like some folks wait between doing PWC's? It's too bad > our fish can't scream like a baby with a dirty diaper. That would sure > surprise the heck of out someone who likes to wait a long time between > PWC's. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I took out of > > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the back of > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there because it > > contains good bacteria? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down over time > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to increase the > PWC schedule on that tank. > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other things > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace minerals > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure and vacuum > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow down the > lowering of the pH. > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus from the > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. I have a > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and CO2 from > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals in the > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and do more > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's ecology > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another tank. > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get much too > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a 35G tank. > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large for a > 10G or 20G tank also. > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality issues but it > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune systems > and shorten their lifespans. > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what kind of fish > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of hamrad45 > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 > 7:20 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28068	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: angel fish...

Thanks Raymond, I have added a slanted rock for them and will see what happens. They seem to be ignoring each other right now. The evening time seems to be when they start the lip locking. I have an extra 7 gallon cube I can move the rock into if they do lay eggs. Angel fry would be kind of cool. I'm sure I could find homes for them on craigslist or freecycle. I appreciate your help. Regards, Traci Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <><

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28069	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

Back on April 17th I sent a rare HTML message showing what affects pH change in aquaria. Rather than do it up again, may I direct you and other interested parties to the archives to look up that message. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sullllly Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph I would check my nitrate level. Whats your nitrate level before and after a water change. In a small aquarium thats over stocked a small weekly water change may not be suffcient. Its my understanding that the nitrate level can effect the ph level and its my guess (I could be wrong, but have a feeling) that your going to find that your nitrate level is going to be higher in the tank with the low ph. If so this is an indication that you need to clean more and change more water. Also some decorations IE wood can lower ph. If you can test for a nitrate level on this tank please let me know I would be curious. Under 40ppm is good. > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I took out of > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the back of > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there because it > contains good bacteria? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down over time > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to increase the > PWC schedule on that tank. > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other things > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace minerals > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure and vacuum > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow down the > lowering of the pH. > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus from the > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. I have a > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and CO2 from > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals in the > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and do more > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's ecology > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another tank. > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get much too > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a 35G tank. > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large for a > 10G or 20G tank also. > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality issues but it > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune systems > and shorten their lifespans. > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what kind of fish > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of hamrad45 > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 > 7:20 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28070	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Guppy behaving strange

Hi everyone, The Guppies in my 2g fry tank are staying almost still in one side of the tank, all heading towards the same direction, and their eyes are dark. Nothing in/around the tank has been changed recently. I changed 65% of the water this evening, but they didn't move. When I turned the corner box filter off, they started moving around, but not as much as usual. No parameters are available, the temperature is 27 c. What do you think is going on? All the best, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28071	From: Kevin	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

I do not have a science degree but from what I have read about what takes place in aquarium water I would agree with Lenny and Ray and their points. Perhaps you could test the KH level and if it is found to be very low from the tap add a buffer to keep the water from becoming acidic provided you're cleaning and changing out enough water to remove the elements that will be converted to acid. Nitrate level (without my science degree mind you), I believe, is still a good indicator of other things that are taking place. I try to keep my bacteria happy by shaking their home under old aquarium water when I do a water change to remove the slime coating from my bio-media so the bacteria won't starve and die. > > I don't think it's the nitrate, per se, that affects the pH level (maybe if > the nitrate level got really high.. 300ppm+) but rather the fact that if you > have a high nitrate level... 50ppm+, then your N-bacteria (and other > bacteria) have been working hard consuming all of the ammonia/nitrite and > when they are doing their jobs, they also use a lot of the trace elements > and minerals in the water. As these levels (KH, etc.) go down, the pH goes > down also. Further, as the bacteria works on the decaying detritus, they > put out a lot of carbonic acid, CO2, etc. which further lowers the pH level. > > That's one of the reasons we use the nitrate test level as an indicator of > when a PWC is needed but it should not be the only indicator. > > If you have hard water with a high KH level, the pH will be less affected by > the ecology of the tank whereas soft water with a low KH level will be more > affected by the ecology of the tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of sullllly > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph > > I would check my nitrate level. Whats your nitrate level before and after a > water change. In a small aquarium thats over stocked a small weekly water > change may not be suffcient. Its my understanding that the nitrate level can > effect the ph level and its my guess (I could be wrong, but have a feeling) > that your going to find that your nitrate level is going to be higher in the > tank with the low ph. If so this is an indication that you need to clean > more and change more water. Also some decorations IE wood can lower ph. If > you can test for a nitrate level on this tank please let me know I would be > curious. Under 40ppm is good. > > > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I > took out of > > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the > back of > > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there > because it > > contains good bacteria? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down > over time > > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to > increase the > > PWC schedule on that tank. > > > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other > things > > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace > minerals > > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure > and vacuum > > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow > down the > > lowering of the pH. > > > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus > from the > > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. > I have a > > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and > CO2 from > > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals > in the > > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and > do more > > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's > ecology > > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another > tank. > > > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get > much too > > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a > 35G tank. > > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large > for a > > 10G or 20G tank also. > > > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality > issues but it > > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune > systems > > and shorten their lifespans. > > > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon > Tank > > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what > kind of fish > > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of hamrad45 > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago > I > > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. > All thanks > > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have > noticed over > > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. > Note that > > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before > putting in > > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat > fish). The > > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there > for some > > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > > > Thanks for your time, > > > > Tom > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 > 7:20 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28072	From: Kevin	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

Yes. > > Back on April 17th I sent a rare HTML message showing what affects pH change in aquaria. Rather than do it up again, may I direct you and other interested parties to the archives to look up that message. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sullllly > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph > > I would check my nitrate level. Whats your nitrate level before and > after a water change. In a small aquarium thats over stocked a small > weekly water change may not be suffcient. Its my understanding that > the nitrate level can effect the ph level and its my guess (I could > be wrong, but have a feeling) that your going to find that your > nitrate level is going to be higher in the tank with the low ph. If > so this is an indication that you need to clean more and change more > water. Also some decorations IE wood can lower ph. If you can test > for a nitrate level on this tank please let me know I would be > curious. Under 40ppm is good. > > > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I > took out of > > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the > back of > > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there > because it > > contains good bacteria? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down > over time > > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to > increase the > > PWC schedule on that tank. > > > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other > things > > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace > minerals > > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure > and vacuum > > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow > down the > > lowering of the pH. > > > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus > from the > > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. > I have a > > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and > CO2 from > > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals > in the > > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and > do more > > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's > ecology > > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another > tank. > > > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get > much too > > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a > 35G tank. > > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large > for a > > 10G or 20G tank also. > > > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality > issues but it > > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune > systems > > and shorten their lifespans. > > > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon > Tank > > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what > kind of fish > > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of hamrad45 > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago > I > > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. > All thanks > > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have > noticed over > > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. > Note that > > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before > putting in > > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat > fish). The > > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there > for some > > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > > > Thanks for your time, > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: > 5/28/2008 > > 7:20 AM > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28073	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

For those who would have the interest to know more about what influences in your aquarium water may affect pH change, refer to message #27237 (April 17, 2008, 10:49 PM). You'll find an extensive listing of the grasp of but some of these influences, displaying the gist of what affects a pH change in aquarium water (with yet others still unmentioned). No doubt at least some of you will be surprised. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Back on April 17th I sent a rare HTML message showing what affects pH change in aquaria. Rather than do it up again, may I direct you and other interested parties to the archives to look up that message. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sullllly > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph > > I would check my nitrate level. Whats your nitrate level before and > after a water change. In a small aquarium thats over stocked a small > weekly water change may not be suffcient. Its my understanding that > the nitrate level can effect the ph level and its my guess (I could > be wrong, but have a feeling) that your going to find that your > nitrate level is going to be higher in the tank with the low ph. If > so this is an indication that you need to clean more and change more > water. Also some decorations IE wood can lower ph. If you can test > for a nitrate level on this tank please let me know I would be > curious. Under 40ppm is good. > > > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I > took out of > > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the > back of > > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there > because it > > contains good bacteria? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down > over time > > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to > increase the > > PWC schedule on that tank. > > > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other > things > > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace > minerals > > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure > and vacuum > > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow > down the > > lowering of the pH. > > > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus > from the > > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. > I have a > > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and > CO2 from > > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals > in the > > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and > do more > > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's > ecology > > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another > tank. > > > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get > much too > > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a > 35G tank. > > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large > for a > > 10G or 20G tank also. > > > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality > issues but it > > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune > systems > > and shorten their lifespans. > > > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon > Tank > > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what > kind of fish > > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of hamrad45 > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago > I > > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. > All thanks > > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have > noticed over > > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. > Note that > > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before > putting in > > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat > fish). The > > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there > for some > > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > > > Thanks for your time, > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: > 5/28/2008 > > 7:20 AM > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28074	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: White poop

Go to vet school for 10 years with a PHD in Aquatic Doo-Doo. With all the fancy fish out there, you would probably make a mint at it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Maxmillionmaxcat@... wrote: > > > Thanks Lenny - those were some funky feces photos. I'm going to be checking > on her.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28075	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: White poop

Or better yet... If I could talk to the animals, learn all their languages, Maybe get an animal degree, I'd study elephant fish and platys, gouramis and guppies, Alligator gar, goldfish and a plec! http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Talk-to-the-Animals-lyrics-Bobby-Dari n/BE835BC4B574F78548256F9C00260586 Or for those who don't remember the song from the lyrics back in the 60's... here's the YouTube version... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWzvCM4WcMg (I didn't see the Rex Harrison version) It's too bad Eddie Murphy didn't do a remix for the 90's version of Dr. Doolittle. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: White poop Go to vet school for 10 years with a PHD in Aquatic Doo-Doo. With all the fancy fish out there, you would probably make a mint at it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Maxmillionmaxcat@... wrote: > > > Thanks Lenny - those were some funky feces photos. I'm going to be checking > on her. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.3/1472 - Release Date: 5/29/2008 7:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28076	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/29/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

Ray, Yes, that is the message I prepared last month. Since you were kind enough to look it up, I went to take a quick look and discovered that there was a repeated error regarding the representation of C at the beginning of most expressions is misrepresented. It is displaying as C6 instead of C<subscript>6. To all of you out there, I apologize for not catching that prior to posting. I found it to be the same in the original copy of the sent message also, so I only have myself to blame, except, maybe to say, doggone it Yahoo, you blew it again <G>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph For those who would have the interest to know more about what influences in your aquarium water may affect pH change, refer to message #27237 (April 17, 2008, 10:49 PM). You'll find an extensive listing of the grasp of but some of these influences, displaying the gist of what affects a pH change in aquarium water (with yet others still unmentioned). No doubt at least some of you will be surprised. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Back on April 17th I sent a rare HTML message showing what affects pH change in aquaria. Rather than do it up again, may I direct you and other interested parties to the archives to look up that message. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sullllly > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph > > I would check my nitrate level. Whats your nitrate level before and > after a water change. In a small aquarium thats over stocked a small > weekly water change may not be suffcient. Its my understanding that > the nitrate level can effect the ph level and its my guess (I could > be wrong, but have a feeling) that your going to find that your > nitrate level is going to be higher in the tank with the low ph. If > so this is an indication that you need to clean more and change more > water. Also some decorations IE wood can lower ph. If you can test > for a nitrate level on this tank please let me know I would be > curious. Under 40ppm is good. > > > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I > took out of > > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the > back of > > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there > because it > > contains good bacteria? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down > over time > > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to > increase the > > PWC schedule on that tank. > > > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other > things > > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace > minerals > > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure > and vacuum > > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow > down the > > lowering of the pH. > > > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus > from the > > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. > I have a > > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and > CO2 from > > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals > in the > > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and > do more > > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's > ecology > > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another > tank. > > > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get > much too > > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a > 35G tank. > > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large > for a > > 10G or 20G tank also. > > > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality > issues but it > > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune > systems > > and shorten their lifespans. > > > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon > Tank > > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what > kind of fish > > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of hamrad45 > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago > I > > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. > All thanks > > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have > noticed over > > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. > Note that > > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before > putting in > > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat > fish). The > > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there > for some > > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > > > Thanks for your time, > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: > 5/28/2008 > > 7:20 AM > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28077	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Nano Cubes

I'm wanting to get into having a fish tank again. I keep seeing a lot about these new Nano Cubes. What can you tell me about them.Susie **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28078	From: evilkoala50	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Aggressive Gourami

I have an aggressive olapine gourami that I am unable to keep with anything. It has killed and eaten Cori catfish, plecos, snails and even a crayfish as well as the second gourami I purchased with it. I don't anything that will kill it, but is there any type of fish or other creature I can keep it with that will act as a bottom feeder that will survive with it? It is currently in a 10-gallon tank with plenty of hiding. I don't want to get a larger tank since I'm limited on room. David

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28079	From: Rob DeSanno	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy behaving strange

Mine did that too for a day or so when they were first born earlier this week but seem to be fine. Is this something to worry about? On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 6:53 PM, N Taweel <n-taweel@...> wrote: > Hi everyone, > The Guppies in my 2g fry tank are staying almost still in one side of the > tank, all heading towards the same direction, and their eyes are dark. > Nothing in/around the tank has been changed recently. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28080	From: Cheryl	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: my clownfish's companion anemone

my anemone is closed and won't open. the ph is 7.8 no ammonia or nitrates. water is about 80. I dong know what I am doing wrong?? any suggestions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28081	From: Cheryl	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sharden47@... wrote: > > I'm wanting to get into having a fish tank again. I keep seeing a lot about > these new Nano Cubes. What can you tell me about them.Susie > > Im sure you know, but the nano cubes are primarily fotr saltwater fish. they are smaller on average the a "typical" saltwater tank but the are wonderful if you want to grow corals and a reef and maybe have an odd fish or 2 swimming around. > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&? NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28082	From: Cheryl	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "susieharden" <sharden47@...> wrote: > > Hi, I live in Tx. but was raised in In. I have 6 recued dogs and 2 > Siamese. I have decided to get an aquaruim. Now for the hard part. Do I > want a 12 or 29 gal. tank. And do I want fresh or saltwater fish. I had > a 10 gal. freshwater tank several years ago. Ahter my 'little' brother > got tired of his. Now I'm ready to get serious about having a really > nice tank. I know nothing about saltwater fish or whether they are easy > and are having corals very difficult. But I've been trying to read as > much as I could on them. Could you tell me the pros and cons about > saltwater fish with or without corals. > I myself have had both.I find the freshwater tanks are less hassle, just throw the fish in (which are very cheap) change the water now and again and aside from the occasional plastic plant floating to the surface, thats about all you are going to get. I now have a 10 gallon and a 55 gallon saltwater tank. These are soooo much fun! you dont want to buy new, buy second hand because the set-up can be quite expensive. I read a lot of books on them and to be honest with you as long as you are intelligent and have the will to commit to doing it, the saltwater is the best option! everytime I look in my tanks there is something growing or crawling around in it that wasnt there before!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28083	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Re: Aggressive Gourami

Your problem, as you seem to already know, is that you have a big fish in a small tank. It's basic Darwinism at work... survival of the fittest. The gourami knows that it will have a hard enough time trying to live out its life in a 10G tank and having anything else in there only makes it harder for it to live so it kills off anything else. An Opaline Gourami (aka Three-spot or Blue Gourami) should grow to 6" long and have a rather large body. You should have at least a 20-30G tank for this type of fish. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Trichogaster_trichopterus.html If you can't get a bigger tank, then you should rehome the gourami and get fish that are more appropriate for a 10G tank. On my blog, I have a long article with a very thorough list of fish that are suituable for 10G tanks. Go to my blog and on the right side under the "Labels" section, you'll see the link to 10G Stocking Suggestions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of evilkoala50 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aggressive Gourami I have an aggressive olapine gourami that I am unable to keep with anything. It has killed and eaten Cori catfish, plecos, snails and even a crayfish as well as the second gourami I purchased with it. I don't anything that will kill it, but is there any type of fish or other creature I can keep it with that will act as a bottom feeder that will survive with it? It is currently in a 10-gallon tank with plenty of hiding. I don't want to get a larger tank since I'm limited on room. David No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1474 - Release Date: 5/30/2008 7:44 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28084	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/30/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28085	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Aggressive Gourami

Wow! Imagine that, an opaline gourami that is aggressive! That is exactly what they are, to some extent or another. Gouramis, as a whole, are aggressive fish, even the so called "timid" dwarf gourami. They are timid, mainly because most people do not keep them as they should be kept. Your opaline seems to have gotten an extra dose of aggression. Keeping him in a 10 gallon tank, as Lenny has pointed out is not the way to go with him. Do as he suggests and find him a new home, either with a friend or acquaintance, or by turning him into your LFS, if they will take him, for a store credit or for other fish that will be more peaceful and more suited to a 10 gallon tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of evilkoala50 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 6:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aggressive Gourami I have an aggressive olapine gourami that I am unable to keep with anything. It has killed and eaten Cori catfish, plecos, snails and even a crayfish as well as the second gourami I purchased with it. I don't anything that will kill it, but is there any type of fish or other creature I can keep it with that will act as a bottom feeder that will survive with it? It is currently in a 10-gallon tank with plenty of hiding. I don't want to get a larger tank since I'm limited on room. David

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28086	From: pedunson	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy behaving strange

Hi noura, Are your guppies grouping together in the corner of the tank and their bodies starting to wiggle? If you will look at the fish when they are steady, they should not be wiggling their body, the movement of the fins and tails are natural, but the "wiggle" is a disease of live bearers.(that what we call it here) In case you have "Wiggle": We use potassuim permanganate (powder or liquid) to cure them. use only a little as they tend to burn fish if too much is used. the color of the water will chage to pink when you apply the medicine. change 50% of the water the next day and apply the medicine again. you do this until the wiggle is gone..dont feed the fish while in medication. they will not die even if you dont feed them for a week. ped --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > The Guppies in my 2g fry tank are staying almost still in one side of the tank, all heading towards the same direction, and their eyes are dark. Nothing in/around the tank has been changed recently. > > I changed 65% of the water this evening, but they didn't move. > > When I turned the corner box filter off, they started moving around, but not as much as usual. > > No parameters are available, the temperature is 27 c. > > What do you think is going on? > > > All the best, > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28087	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Aggressive Gourami

David, Aside from the possibility of Darwinism being part of this problem, as Lenny points out, and aside from this fish being in an undersized tank for its eventual full size, it can be expected of any variety of the Blue/3-Spot Gourami (Trichogaster trichopterus), including your variant Opaline (Cosby), to be aggressive in their behavior as is well known for this speciesas it being one of the more aggressive of the Family. While some other Gourami's can be somewhat aggressive, this behavior you're experiencing also bodes well unfortunately for the Gold and the Platinum (or Silver) -- not to be confused with the Moonlight Gourami -- Gourami's, other variations of the Blue Gourami (or "3-Spot" Gourami). While a larger (20 to 30 gallon) tank would be more in line with the requirements to maintain it, this will not necessarily reduce its tendancy to display its innate aggressiveness towards its tankmates, especially those smaller than itself. Possibly, about the only type of bottom-feeding fish you could keep with your Gourami that it would not kill might be an Electric Catfish, which should be able to hold its own against this marauder <g>. Since you're limited for room, I would recommend that you trade this fish back to the LFS (or give, if need be, if PetSmart won't otherwise take it), and purchase something more peaceful. If you prefer this general type of fish, try a Dwarf Honey Gourami as its peaceful and more in line with the size of your tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "evilkoala50" <evilkoala50@...> wrote: > > I have an aggressive olapine gourami that I am unable to keep with > anything. It has killed and eaten Cori catfish, plecos, snails and even > a crayfish as well as the second gourami I purchased with it. I don't > anything that will kill it, but is there any type of fish or other > creature I can keep it with that will act as a bottom feeder that will > survive with it? It is currently in a 10-gallon tank with plenty of > hiding. I don't want to get a larger tank since I'm limited on room. > > David >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28088	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy behaving strange

They are fine now, they did that for only a day. I didn't change anything except for the PWC. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob DeSanno" <rdesanno@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppy behaving strange Mine did that too for a day or so when they were first born earlier this week but seem to be fine. Is this something to worry about? On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 6:53 PM, N Taweel <n-taweel@...> wrote: > Hi everyone, > The Guppies in my 2g fry tank are staying almost still in one side of the > tank, all heading towards the same direction, and their eyes are dark. > Nothing in/around the tank has been changed recently. > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((?> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<?((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28089	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Which tetras to get?

My tank numbers have finally straightend out due to neglecting it alittle, I guess that's what it needed. With ammonia and nitrites near 0 my nitrates are only 5.0, so I guess the tank is ready for more fish. I want to get tetras that are best for my skill level, my 10 gallon size tank and my natural color scheme. I really like black phantom tetras but found contradictory information on how hardy they are. Ph of my tank was running around 7.6 but it seems to have gone up as the nitrites went down; now I'd say it's around 7.9. Here's my list of what I'm considering - and I need feedback by around 10 AM as that's wehn I'm planning to go get them. I have three little zebra danios in the tank. black phantom tetra blood fin tetra (a little large) pristella gold tetra flame tettra griem's tetra glo-light tetra head and tail light tetra red-eyed tetra Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28090	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Which tetras to get?

If you are keeping your ZD's, you should fill out the school. They should be kept in schools of six or more. If you want color or variety, you could go with fancy finned ZD's or the Glo-Light ZD's. A 10G tank isn't the best tank for ZD's since they are such big swimmers and like lots of swimming room but hopefully a 20G+ tank is in your plans. Then you could have the school of ZD's and a school of tetra's also. If you already have fancy finned ZD's, I believe those would be better suited for a 10G since most fancy finned fish tend to swim slower. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 7:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Which tetras to get? My tank numbers have finally straightend out due to neglecting it alittle, I guess that's what it needed. With ammonia and nitrites near 0 my nitrates are only 5.0, so I guess the tank is ready for more fish. I want to get tetras that are best for my skill level, my 10 gallon size tank and my natural color scheme. I really like black phantom tetras but found contradictory information on how hardy they are. Ph of my tank was running around 7.6 but it seems to have gone up as the nitrites went down; now I'd say it's around 7.9. Here's my list of what I'm considering - and I need feedback by around 10 AM as that's wehn I'm planning to go get them. I have three little zebra danios in the tank. black phantom tetra blood fin tetra (a little large) pristella gold tetra flame tettra griem's tetra glo-light tetra head and tail light tetra red-eyed tetra Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1475 - Release Date: 5/30/2008 2:53 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28091	From: N Taweel	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy behaving strange

No they're not wiggling. And they're fine now. But just out of curiousity, exactly how much Potassium Permanganate do you use. "How many grams of powder per litre/gallon"? ----- Original Message ----- From: "pedunson" <pedunson@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 1:47 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy behaving strange Hi noura, Are your guppies grouping together in the corner of the tank and their bodies starting to wiggle? If you will look at the fish when they are steady, they should not be wiggling their body, the movement of the fins and tails are natural, but the "wiggle" is a disease of live bearers.(that what we call it here) In case you have "Wiggle": We use potassuim permanganate (powder or liquid) to cure them. use only a little as they tend to burn fish if too much is used. the color of the water will chage to pink when you apply the medicine. change 50% of the water the next day and apply the medicine again. you do this until the wiggle is gone..dont feed the fish while in medication. they will not die even if you dont feed them for a week. ped --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > The Guppies in my 2g fry tank are staying almost still in one side of the tank, all heading towards the same direction, and their eyes are dark. Nothing in/around the tank has been changed recently. > > I changed 65% of the water this evening, but they didn't move. > > When I turned the corner box filter off, they started moving around, but not as much as usual. > > No parameters are available, the temperature is 27 c. > > What do you think is going on? > > > All the best, > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((?> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<?((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28092	From: hank voss	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Which tetras to get?

Dora: The easeist tetras to keep are Pristellas.glowlites,griems tets,and head &tail lights the latter can be prone to "ich" though.Stay away from the red eyes as they can be quite nasty.Black phantoms(if healthy to begin with) are usually trouble free. Since your working with a 10g. tank I would get the smaller tets as you only have room for so many.If you have any more ques,about tetras feel free to ask. Regards Hank > My tank numbers have finally straightend out due to neglecting it alittle, I guess that's what it needed. With ammonia and nitrites near 0 my nitrates are only 5.0, so I guess the tank is ready for more fish. > > I want to get tetras that are best for my skill level, my 10 gallon size tank and my natural color scheme. I really like black phantom tetras but found contradictory information on how hardy they are. Ph of my tank was running around 7.6 but it seems to have gone up as the nitrites went down; now I'd say it's around 7.9. > > Here's my list of what I'm considering - and I need feedback by around 10 AM as that's wehn I'm planning to go get them. > > I have three little zebra danios in the tank. > > black phantom tetra > blood fin tetra (a little large) > pristella > gold tetra > flame tettra > griem's tetra > glo-light tetra > head and tail light tetra > red-eyed tetra > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28093	From: jamesewerjr	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: gourami

I have recieved two blue gourami one of which has died within a week,the other just hides in the grass that i put in there. I was just woundering is this normal for them to do or should i replace the one that died. When i got them they were a pair dont know how long they were a pair i got them monday from a buddy of mine along with the tank.Not sure what to do...thanks for any advice i can get on this subject james

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28094	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy behaving strange

The description of this behavior, as related by you, is called "Shimmies" (or "Shakes"), and is not a disease in itself but just the manifestation of the actual underlying cause -- which can have many different causes. Among those causes might be a short drop in temperataure, indigestion and dirty or poor quality aquarium water. As your fish seems fine now, their temporary behavior indicative to this seems to have not been associated with any malady especially since you have done nothing to alleviate it -- their "recovery" was just spontaneous. While I'm not sure if Potassium permanganate will otherwise "cure" fish with this condition, its probably worth a try when it does occur since it may address one of the underlying causes, and apparently does help in cases of the "Wiggle" (being the same thing?) as per Ped's findings. Generally, 1/8 grain per U.S. gallon is the recommended solution for this crystaline powder in aquarium water for use in treating those maladies it will effect a cure of. Its an old remedy for fungus diseases as well as some parasitic ones (Ich included), and has other uses. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > No they're not wiggling. And they're fine now. > But just out of curiousity, exactly how much Potassium Permanganate do you > use. "How many grams of powder per litre/gallon"? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "pedunson" <pedunson@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 1:47 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy behaving strange > > > > Hi noura, > Are your guppies grouping together in the corner of the tank and > their bodies starting to wiggle? > > If you will look at the fish when they are steady, they should not be > wiggling their body, the movement of the fins and tails are natural, > but the "wiggle" is a disease of live bearers.(that what we call it > here) > > In case you have "Wiggle": > We use potassuim permanganate (powder or liquid) to cure them. use > only a little as they tend to burn fish if too much is used. the > color of the water will chage to pink when you apply the medicine. > change 50% of the water the next day and apply the medicine again. > you do this until the wiggle is gone..dont feed the fish while in > medication. they will not die even if you dont feed them for a week. > > ped > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@> wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > The Guppies in my 2g fry tank are staying almost still in one side > of the tank, all heading towards the same direction, and their eyes > are dark. Nothing in/around the tank has been changed recently. > > > > I changed 65% of the water this evening, but they didn't move. > > > > When I turned the corner box filter off, they started moving > around, but not as much as usual. > > > > No parameters are available, the temperature is 27 c. > > > > What do you think is going on? > > > > > > All the best, > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((?> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<? ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28095	From: evilkoala50	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Update on Gourami

Thank you for your rather harsh comments about it. I am new to the aquarium world, preferring reptiles and my silly little tetras. The gourami is not too large for its tank, since it is only about three inches long. I know I am inept, but wish that you might have words of advice rather than pointing out that I have failed in caring for it. When I bought the gourami with its now-deceased companion, I was told they are tame fish as long as they are given room to swim. I slso was mistaken on the tank size, it is actually a 20 gallon. I had housed him previously in a ten until I had gotten the 20 setup and a microbial balance in place to ease the transfer. No need to respond, just venting on the comments I received.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28096	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Which tetras to get?

Well, guess what, I came home with four pristellas and a gold tetra. Now I've got four pairs of huge black eyes looking at me from out of transparent bodies. They've been lined up in the front of the tank looking at me for an hour. Fishes' revenge. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: hank voss To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:17 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which tetras to get? Dora: The easeist tetras to keep are Pristellas.glowlites,griems tets,and head &tail lights the latter can be prone to "ich" though.Stay away from the red eyes as they can be quite nasty.Black phantoms(if healthy to begin with) are usually trouble free. Since your working with a 10g. tank I would get the smaller tets as you only have room for so many.If you have any more ques,about tetras feel free to ask. Regards Hank > My tank numbers have finally straightend out due to neglecting it alittle, I guess that's what it needed. With ammonia and nitrites near 0 my nitrates are only 5.0, so I guess the tank is ready for more fish. > > I want to get tetras that are best for my skill level, my 10 gallon size tank and my natural color scheme. I really like black phantom tetras but found contradictory information on how hardy they are. Ph of my tank was running around 7.6 but it seems to have gone up as the nitrites went down; now I'd say it's around 7.9. > > Here's my list of what I'm considering - and I need feedback by around 10 AM as that's wehn I'm planning to go get them. > > I have three little zebra danios in the tank. > > black phantom tetra > blood fin tetra (a little large) > pristella > gold tetra > flame tettra > griem's tetra > glo-light tetra > head and tail light tetra > red-eyed tetra > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28097	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Which tetras to get?

Six our more? Well, I guess not right now - I already got those ugly pristellas. But I'll keep it in mind. The three of them sure do seem happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Which tetras to get? If you are keeping your ZD's, you should fill out the school. They should be kept in schools of six or more. If you want color or variety, you could go with fancy finned ZD's or the Glo-Light ZD's. A 10G tank isn't the best tank for ZD's since they are such big swimmers and like lots of swimming room but hopefully a 20G+ tank is in your plans. Then you could have the school of ZD's and a school of tetra's also. If you already have fancy finned ZD's, I believe those would be better suited for a 10G since most fancy finned fish tend to swim slower. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 7:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Which tetras to get? My tank numbers have finally straightend out due to neglecting it alittle, I guess that's what it needed. With ammonia and nitrites near 0 my nitrates are only 5.0, so I guess the tank is ready for more fish. I want to get tetras that are best for my skill level, my 10 gallon size tank and my natural color scheme. I really like black phantom tetras but found contradictory information on how hardy they are. Ph of my tank was running around 7.6 but it seems to have gone up as the nitrites went down; now I'd say it's around 7.9. Here's my list of what I'm considering - and I need feedback by around 10 AM as that's wehn I'm planning to go get them. I have three little zebra danios in the tank. black phantom tetra blood fin tetra (a little large) pristella gold tetra flame tettra griem's tetra glo-light tetra head and tail light tetra red-eyed tetra Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1475 - Release Date: 5/30/2008 2:53 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28098	From: James	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Aggressive Gourami

Gourami are actually related to the Betta(Siamese Fighting Fish) Kissing Gourami when they are kissing are actually fighting and trying to show each other who is more dominate. James <http://www.yourfishtankguru.com/Talk/> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "evilkoala50" <evilkoala50@...> wrote: > > I have an aggressive olapine gourami that I am unable to keep with > anything. It has killed and eaten Cori catfish, plecos, snails and even > a crayfish as well as the second gourami I purchased with it. I don't > anything that will kill it, but is there any type of fish or other > creature I can keep it with that will act as a bottom feeder that will > survive with it? It is currently in a 10-gallon tank with plenty of > hiding. I don't want to get a larger tank since I'm limited on room. > > David > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28099	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Question about Nitrate Level

Today was PWC day.  I tested the water with API liquid before and after PWC.  Before the PWC Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, Nitrate was 10 and pH was 7.4.  I did a 25% PWC with vacuuming the gravel.  After the PWC I tested the water again and the results were the same.  I then tested my tap water and the Nitrate was 0.  I realize that 10 is not a bad level for Nitrate and there is no reason for concern, but I expected it to have dropped a little.  Maybe it did and it was not discernible on the test.  Does anyone know of another reason why the Nitrate might not come down?   Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28100	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Update on Gourami

The truth is that gouramis, as a whole, are aggressive fish, singly, in pairs, in groups. When there is more than one, it is likely the aggression will be more between the gouramis than with anything else in the tank. As the number reduces, the aggression will spread to other tank inhabitants, and with a singleton, definitely toward the other inhabitants. Your giving us misinformation did not help your case. The truth of the matter is that when sizing a tank, you really need to look at the adult size of the fish, and not the current size. While the 20 gallon would be a good size for the opaline, as a single fish, I'd not try to place a pair in there. I'd want at least a 30 gallon for a pair (meaning 2 of either sex rather than a true pair of male and female) of them, to give each enough room to grow and get away from one another, if needed, which also means your décor needs to be designed for that sort of event. You have made a simple novice mistake, well, maybe not so novice--we all do it from time to time, by getting a fish without a good knowledge of its needs and behaviors. There is also a lot of misinformation floating around this hobby, and it gets propagated like the old saying of the blind leading the blind. That is one of the purposes of this list, setting people on the right path. We do face some problems in doing so. This medium is not the best for transferring the feeling of what we are saying. Many clues humans rely upon are missing here. The tone of voice, the body gestures, and such. What you read on the other end may not read as we are saying it. Another factor is that we see more than our share of mistakes here, and it does get tiresome to by typing the same thing over and over again. I know that I am pretty busy, being away from home 12-14 hours a day, then doing what I need to do around here, plus the work I need to do to keep my business going, etc. That does not allow me a lot of time to spend here, so most of my answers tend to be short and sweet. Depending on how I am feeling, I try to inject some humor, which may or may not reach the people reading. There are a few of us here who have a lot of years in this hobby. Some of that group were around before the nitrogen cycle and its importance were known. (There is another Yahoo! list that has a lot of old timers on it and they talk about the history of the hobby. One fellow is the last known living hobbyist to have worked with William T. Innes. In case you have never heard the name before, Innes is widely revered in the hobby for his work done roughly in the years between the '20's and '50's, spreading the gospel of Fishkeeping with fairly accurate information.) between those guys, there is a few hundred years of experience with fish of all types. So keep reading and asking questions, and don't take everything so literally. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of evilkoala50 Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Update on Gourami Thank you for your rather harsh comments about it. I am new to the aquarium world, preferring reptiles and my silly little tetras. The gourami is not too large for its tank, since it is only about three inches long. I know I am inept, but wish that you might have words of advice rather than pointing out that I have failed in caring for it. When I bought the gourami with its now-deceased companion, I was told they are tame fish as long as they are given room to swim. I slso was mistaken on the tank size, it is actually a 20 gallon. I had housed him previously in a ten until I had gotten the 20 setup and a microbial balance in place to ease the transfer. No need to respond, just venting on the comments I received.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28101	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

The first thing I'd look at is the expiration date on the reagents that are being used. Liquid reagents have a shorter shelf life than the dry reagents. Another thing to look at is how easy it is for you to differentiate a 2 ppm or so change in the nitrate level with that test kit. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level Today was PWC day.  I tested the water with API liquid before and after PWC.  Before the PWC Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, Nitrate was 10 and pH was 7.4.  I did a 25% PWC with vacuuming the gravel.  After the PWC I tested the water again and the results were the same.  I then tested my tap water and the Nitrate was 0.  I realize that 10 is not a bad level for Nitrate and there is no reason for concern, but I expected it to have dropped a little.  Maybe it did and it was not discernible on the test.  Does anyone know of another reason why the Nitrate might not come down?   Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28102	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Update on Gourami

David, I'm not sure exactly what harsh comments you mean, nor do I know to whom you are referring since you have not included that part of the thread (other person's reply) on this topic. Three of us have voiced our opinion on the behavior of this species, as is commonly recognized -- and two of us have stated that your ten gallon tank is too small for this Gourami when including your other fish. You have as much said yourself that your Opaline Gourami is aggressive. Please know that this trait is one that is not restricted just to your Gourami, but is a common trait with the species as a whole. We are just telling it as it is in an effort to advise you of what to expect from this fish, hoping the advice will help you. As for the tank being too small, first I'm glad to hear you in fact have a 20 gallon tank, even though this will not diminish your Gourami's attitude. When advising against your Gouarmi in what we thought was a 10 gallon tank, we are at the same time, taking into consideration the rest of your fish too (the complete bioload). Even though your Gourami may be only 3" at this time, it must be taken into consideration, this fish eventual potential full size upon reaching maturity. A 3" fish may not seem too big for a 10 gallon tank, even including your other fish, but a 6" (some books say 5" for this species) fish, along with your other fish, may get crowded. Then too, unless adaquate room is offered in the beginning of any fish's growth, a tank of too small dimensions for the full size of the species may well restrict its growth to the point that it may never reach full size and/or at the same time restrict the growth of the other tank inhabitants because of a tendency to crowd as they grow (even if the tank is not yet crowded at this point). This advice is not meant to be harsh, but is reality and we are offering this in the spirit of being in your best interest. We have no other purpose in spelling out these truths. We would no more recommend housing a 3" Gourami - with the potential of reaching 6" (even though its a labyrinth breather) in a 10 gallon tank with a full compliment of other fishes, than we would recommend a 6" Oscar - with the potential of growing more than 12" (possibly up to 16") in a 20 gallon tank. The fish may be just fine right now, but sufficient room must be given it if you want to be fair to it in enabling it to reach its full potential by offering it ample quarters, instead of restricting all the fish in that tank, which essentially is what will happen as the water parameters affect all the inhabitants. Again, we are offering this as part of the advice we feel you need, even if you have not asked for this in particular. Its felt that you have just overlooked it and we feel this should be brought to your attention in an effort to see you succeed. We are not saying you failed. BTW, while the information you were told by you fish store may be seen as being at least partially correct in the sense of it being stretched, please know that part of this species' (Opaline Gourami) behavior in being aggressive is due to territoriality. The species is not "tame", only appearing as such until another fish swims into its territory -- then watch out! And, I'm talking now about having the fish housed in a large tank, for this behavior to be seen in this natural manner. We are not making this up -- the species has a well recognized notorious aggressive trait within its over-all behavior. We wouldn't say it if it were not so. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "evilkoala50" <evilkoala50@...> wrote: > > Thank you for your rather harsh comments about it. I am new to the > aquarium world, preferring reptiles and my silly little tetras. The > gourami is not too large for its tank, since it is only about three > inches long. I know I am inept, but wish that you might have words of > advice rather than pointing out that I have failed in caring for it. > When I bought the gourami with its now-deceased companion, I was told > they are tame fish as long as they are given room to swim. I slso was > mistaken on the tank size, it is actually a 20 gallon. I had housed him > previously in a ten until I had gotten the 20 setup and a microbial > balance in place to ease the transfer. No need to respond, just venting > on the comments I received. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28103	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

The lot # of Bottle No. 1 indicates that it was manufactured in Nov. 2007 and Bottle No. 2 was manufactured in Feb. 2008.  Both have an expiration of 3 years from manufacturing date.  Of course I don't know the storage conditions before I received them.  The color chart shows a fairly significant difference between 5 and 10 ppm.  I test my water at least once a week and sometimes more.   I keep a log of all of my test results and I have recorded a 7.5 on occasions when the reading was clearly greater than 5 but less than 10 ppm.  The last time I recorded a 7.5 was on March 30, 2008.  Since my Nitrate level is almost always 10 ppm when I test it before a PWC I expected it to drop after the PWC and build back up to 10 in about a weeks time.  I was surprised that it tested the same before and after the PWC.   Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:41:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level The first thing I'd look at is the expiration date on the reagents that are being used. Liquid reagents have a shorter shelf life than the dry reagents. Another thing to look at is how easy it is for you to differentiate a 2 ppm or so change in the nitrate level with that test kit. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level Today was PWC day.  I tested the water with API liquid before and after PWC.  Before the PWC Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, Nitrate was 10 and pH was 7.4.  I did a 25% PWC with vacuuming the gravel.  After the PWC I tested the water again and the results were the same.  I then tested my tap water and the Nitrate was 0.  I realize that 10 is not a bad level for Nitrate and there is no reason for concern, but I expected it to have dropped a little.  Maybe it did and it was not discernible on the test.  Does anyone know of another reason why the Nitrate might not come down?   Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28104	From: Kevin	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

It could be that a small change under 10ppm may not be discernable or like someone posted your test kit maybe out of date. I think with apI most of there test bottles are good from 2 -3 yrs. depending on the test. The last two digits on the lot number is the year of production. I recently tested with high range ph with a bottle from 99 and from its results I thought it was off. I replaced it with a bottle 07 and found that the bottle from 99 was indeed off. (it would display a level but stay on that same level despite an increase or decrease where the nonexpired test displayed different levels as it should. > > Today was PWC day.  I tested the water with API liquid before and after PWC.  Before the PWC Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, Nitrate was 10 and pH was 7.4.  I did a 25% PWC with vacuuming the gravel.  After the PWC I tested the water again and the results were the same.  I then tested my tap water and the Nitrate was 0.  I realize that 10 is not a bad level for Nitrate and there is no reason for concern, but I expected it to have dropped a little.  Maybe it did and it was not discernible on the test.  Does anyone know of another reason why the Nitrate might not come down? >   > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28105	From: Kevin	Date: 5/31/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

I am interested in starting a small 10gal. reef tank. and have been investigating. It seems as though there is a good deal to learn to do it right as the creatures and coral can be sensitive and the low volume of water can cause parameters to flucuate fast. From what I have read so far a small reef tank can have an initial cost close to a large marine tank. I am hoping this is not true or that I can diy myself around some of the equipment cost and stock it with one or two low waste producing very small creatures. People who have them say they are a challenge thats worth the effort and that very careful planning of everything before hand is the key. > > > > > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&? NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28106	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

Since your nitrates were only 10ppm and you did a 25% PWC with 0ppm nitrate tap water, it would have only lowered the nitrate in the tank to 7.5ppm which might still show up in the color range for the 10ppm. Since the API test kit has the color codes in increments of 5ppm for the nitrate test, I would imagine that the color difference would be minimal. Last, but not least, the colors on the API nitrate test kit are part of the spectrum that many people find difficult due to common color blindness that affects up to 25% of adults.. especially men. Here's a couple of free online color blindness testing sites if you want to check your own eyes. http://colorvisiontesting.com/ http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level Today was PWC day. I tested the water with API liquid before and after PWC. Before the PWC Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, Nitrate was 10 and pH was 7.4. I did a 25% PWC with vacuuming the gravel. After the PWC I tested the water again and the results were the same. I then tested my tap water and the Nitrate was 0. I realize that 10 is not a bad level for Nitrate and there is no reason for concern, but I expected it to have dropped a little. Maybe it did and it was not discernible on the test. Does anyone know of another reason why the Nitrate might not come down? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28107	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

I don't know if you are using a municipal water supply or your own water. If it is the former, get a copy of their water test results. These are public information, and can often be found on the town or city's web site. If you can't find it on the web, give them a call to request a copy. The nitrate level they claim should be listed in the report. Keep in mind, however, that what they report may have no relation in reality with what is delivered to your tap. They have a lot of pressure on them to produce good water at minimum cost, and therefore they will want to test where they can get the best results for those goals. For those who have an interest, I found a couple of documents talking about reagent expiration. http://www.epa.state.oh.us/ddagw/Documents/pipelinesept2004.pdf http://www.lamotte.com/pages/edu/shellife.html In the first link, go to page 2 of the document for "Chemistry Reagent Expiration Dates". The second is done by LaMotte, a company that provides the reagents used in many hobbyist kits (the other big supplier is Hach). This KB article from the Hach site talks about shelf life and proper storage of reagents, and points to t tool to determine expiration date of their reagents (unless you are buying Hach branded reagents the tool will likely not be of use): http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.detail.invoker/PackagingCode=GENERAL-REAG_2/NewLinkLabel=Shelf+life+of+reagents Since the above link will likely wrap, causing you to copy and paste the parts, here is the TinyURL for the link: http://tinyurl.com/6o9bhy \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level The lot # of Bottle No. 1 indicates that it was manufactured in Nov. 2007 and Bottle No. 2 was manufactured in Feb. 2008.  Both have an expiration of 3 years from manufacturing date.  Of course I don't know the storage conditions before I received them.  The color chart shows a fairly significant difference between 5 and 10 ppm.  I test my water at least once a week and sometimes more.   I keep a log of all of my test results and I have recorded a 7.5 on occasions when the reading was clearly greater than 5 but less than 10 ppm.  The last time I recorded a 7.5 was on March 30, 2008.  Since my Nitrate level is almost always 10 ppm when I test it before a PWC I expected it to drop after the PWC and build back up to 10 in about a weeks time.  I was surprised that it tested the same before and after the PWC.   Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:41:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level The first thing I'd look at is the expiration date on the reagents that are being used. Liquid reagents have a shorter shelf life than the dry reagents. Another thing to look at is how easy it is for you to differentiate a 2 ppm or so change in the nitrate level with that test kit. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level Today was PWC day.  I tested the water with API liquid before and after PWC.  Before the PWC Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, Nitrate was 10 and pH was 7.4.  I did a 25% PWC with vacuuming the gravel.  After the PWC I tested the water again and the results were the same.  I then tested my tap water and the Nitrate was 0.  I realize that 10 is not a bad level for Nitrate and there is no reason for concern, but I expected it to have dropped a little.  Maybe it did and it was not discernible on the test.  Does anyone know of another reason why the Nitrate might not come down?   Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28108	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

And those that do them also have quite a bit of experience behind them in maintaining marine systems. Doing such a small marine tank is probably not the place someone without previous experience would want to go, or should go. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 1:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes I am interested in starting a small 10gal. reef tank. and have been investigating. It seems as though there is a good deal to learn to do it right as the creatures and coral can be sensitive and the low volume of water can cause parameters to flucuate fast. From what I have read so far a small reef tank can have an initial cost close to a large marine tank. I am hoping this is not true or that I can diy myself around some of the equipment cost and stock it with one or two low waste producing very small creatures. People who have them say they are a challenge thats worth the effort and that very careful planning of everything before hand is the key. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28109	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

Thanks Lenny, � I took both of the color blindness test and have normal vision according to them.� I think that the test, at least on the low end, is hardly discernible between 7.5 and 10 ppm.��Wednesday I will be cleaning the canister filter on�that aquarium and will test before and after just to see if there is a difference.� �Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2008 2:09:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level Since your nitrates were only 10ppm and you did a 25% PWC with 0ppm nitrate tap water, it would have only lowered the nitrate in the tank to 7.5ppm which might still show up in the color range for the 10ppm.� Since the API test kit has the color codes in increments of 5ppm for the nitrate test, I would imagine that the color difference would be minimal.� Last, but not least, the colors on the API nitrate test kit are part of the spectrum that many people find difficult due to common color blindness that affects up to 25% of adults.. especially men. Here's a couple of free online color blindness testing sites if you want to check your own eyes. � http://colorvisiontesting.com/ http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level Today was PWC day.� I tested the water with API liquid before and after PWC. Before the PWC Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, Nitrate was 10 and pH was 7.4. I did a 25% PWC with vacuuming the gravel.� After the PWC I tested the water again and the results were the same.� I then tested my tap water and the Nitrate was 0.� I realize that 10 is not a bad level for Nitrate and there is no reason for concern, but I expected it to have dropped a little.� Maybe it did and it was not discernible on the test.� Does anyone know of another reason why the Nitrate might not come down? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28110	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

I did fine on those tests. Of course, the tests don't measure the ability to discern subtle differences between shades of the same color, which is what teh API ammonia test requires. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:09 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level Since your nitrates were only 10ppm and you did a 25% PWC with 0ppm nitrate tap water, it would have only lowered the nitrate in the tank to 7.5ppm which might still show up in the color range for the 10ppm. Since the API test kit has the color codes in increments of 5ppm for the nitrate test, I would imagine that the color difference would be minimal. Last, but not least, the colors on the API nitrate test kit are part of the spectrum that many people find difficult due to common color blindness that affects up to 25% of adults.. especially men. Here's a couple of free online color blindness testing sites if you want to check your own eyes. http://colorvisiontesting.com/ http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level Today was PWC day. I tested the water with API liquid before and after PWC. Before the PWC Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, Nitrate was 10 and pH was 7.4. I did a 25% PWC with vacuuming the gravel. After the PWC I tested the water again and the results were the same. I then tested my tap water and the Nitrate was 0. I realize that 10 is not a bad level for Nitrate and there is no reason for concern, but I expected it to have dropped a little. Maybe it did and it was not discernible on the test. Does anyone know of another reason why the Nitrate might not come down? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28111	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

Lenny, I need to know whether to rinse out the yellow gunck on the back of my filter when I clean it in the water I just removed from the aquarium each week. Mind you, I do a partial water change every night, except that lately the chemistry seems to do better at every other night. But I only rinse out hte filter once a week. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:09 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph While I'm sure some of the bacteria do live on the mulm, the majority of it lives on the individual strands and surface areas of the actual filter media. The N-bacteria need ammonia/nitrite but they also need lots of O2 which they get from a constant supply of water flowing over them. When the mulm buildup gets too thick so that the water doesn't flow through the filter and instead flows over the top of the filter cartridge, the N-bacteria will start to die off due to lack of O2. I do filter maintenance on one of my filter systems every week. I have two systems on my 65G tank so I am technically doing filter maintenance every two weeks on each system. I've read where some people wait until the filter system water flow slows down before doing cleaning but I think this is waiting too long. For one thing, it's allowing a lot of mulm/detritus to build up and decay back into the tank. As I stated above, it also blocks the water flowing to the N-bacteria so it starts to kill them off also. Seriously... it's bad enough that we make our fish swim around in their own pee and poop for a week before doing a PWC... for those of us that do weekly PWC's. Imagine what the water must be like after the fish have been in it for a month or more like some folks wait between doing PWC's? It's too bad our fish can't scream like a baby with a dirty diaper. That would sure surprise the heck of out someone who likes to wait a long time between PWC's. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I took out of the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the back of hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there because it contains good bacteria? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down over time unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to increase the PWC schedule on that tank. Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other things and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace minerals and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure and vacuum the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow down the lowering of the pH. Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus from the filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. I have a long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and CO2 from breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals in the water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and do more PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's ecology is different and what works for one tank might not work for another tank. You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get much too large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a 35G tank. The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large for a 10G or 20G tank also. Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality issues but it will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune systems and shorten their lifespans. If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what kind of fish you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hamrad45 Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in the tank as it has a high chlorine content. Any idea what could have caused this change? Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. Thanks for your time, Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28112	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

Are you using hte API test? Because it's possible to read several different levels on most of their tests depending on how you hold the tube to read it. On the nitrate test, I often find that if you hold the tube off the card or look at it through light it looks like 5.0, but if you hold it right up to the card it looks more like 10.0. On the ammonia test I can't tell .25 from .5 and can't tell a level greater than 0 from .25, and some times I can't be sure if I'm loking at ..25 or 1.0, and I'm not the only one I've seen say so. The Tetra tests are easier to read but reputedly not as accurate, In my experience they sure don't give the same levels that API tests do. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmy McHaney To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level The lot # of Bottle No. 1 indicates that it was manufactured in Nov. 2007 and Bottle No. 2 was manufactured in Feb. 2008. Both have an expiration of 3 years from manufacturing date. Of course I don't know the storage conditions before I received them. The color chart shows a fairly significant difference between 5 and 10 ppm. I test my water at least once a week and sometimes more. I keep a log of all of my test results and I have recorded a 7.5 on occasions when the reading was clearly greater than 5 but less than 10 ppm. The last time I recorded a 7.5 was on March 30, 2008. Since my Nitrate level is almost always 10 ppm when I test it before a PWC I expected it to drop after the PWC and build back up to 10 in about a weeks time. I was surprised that it tested the same before and after the PWC. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:41:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level The first thing I'd look at is the expiration date on the reagents that are being used. Liquid reagents have a shorter shelf life than the dry reagents. Another thing to look at is how easy it is for you to differentiate a 2 ppm or so change in the nitrate level with that test kit. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level Today was PWC day. I tested the water with API liquid before and after PWC. Before the PWC Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, Nitrate was 10 and pH was 7.4. I did a 25% PWC with vacuuming the gravel. After the PWC I tested the water again and the results were the same. I then tested my tap water and the Nitrate was 0. I realize that 10 is not a bad level for Nitrate and there is no reason for concern, but I expected it to have dropped a little. Maybe it did and it was not discernible on the test. Does anyone know of another reason why the Nitrate might not come down? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28113	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

Thanks Steve,   I have my own water well witch seems to be very stable in its quality.  I checked out both web sites on reagent stability and my normal use with 3 aquariums keeps my turn over well under there minimum expiration dates.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2008 8:35:16 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level I don't know if you are using a municipal water supply or your own water. If it is the former, get a copy of their water test results. These are public information, and can often be found on the town or city's web site. If you can't find it on the web, give them a call to request a copy. The nitrate level they claim should be listed in the report. Keep in mind, however, that what they report may have no relation in reality with what is delivered to your tap. They have a lot of pressure on them to produce good water at minimum cost, and therefore they will want to test where they can get the best results for those goals. For those who have an interest, I found a couple of documents talking about reagent expiration. http://www.epa. state.oh. us/ddagw/ Documents/ pipelinesept2004 .pdf http://www.lamotte. com/pages/ edu/shellife. html In the first link, go to page 2 of the document for "Chemistry Reagent Expiration Dates". The second is done by LaMotte, a company that provides the reagents used in many hobbyist kits (the other big supplier is Hach). This KB article from the Hach site talks about shelf life and proper storage of reagents, and points to t tool to determine expiration date of their reagents (unless you are buying Hach branded reagents the tool will likely not be of use): http://www.hach. com/hc/view. knowledge. base.detail. invoker/Packagin gCode=GENERAL- REAG_2/NewLinkLa bel=Shelf+ life+of+reagents Since the above link will likely wrap, causing you to copy and paste the parts, here is the TinyURL for the link: http://tinyurl. com/6o9bhy \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:21 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level The lot # of Bottle No. 1 indicates that it was manufactured in Nov. 2007 and Bottle No. 2 was manufactured in Feb. 2008.  Both have an expiration of 3 years from manufacturing date.  Of course I don't know the storage conditions before I received them.  The color chart shows a fairly significant difference between 5 and 10 ppm.  I test my water at least once a week and sometimes more.   I keep a log of all of my test results and I have recorded a 7.5 on occasions when the reading was clearly greater than 5 but less than 10 ppm.  The last time I recorded a 7.5 was on March 30, 2008.  Since my Nitrate level is almost always 10 ppm when I test it before a PWC I expected it to drop after the PWC and build back up to 10 in about a weeks time.  I was surprised that it tested the same before and after the PWC..   Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:41:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level The first thing I'd look at is the expiration date on the reagents that are being used. Liquid reagents have a shorter shelf life than the dry reagents. Another thing to look at is how easy it is for you to differentiate a 2 ppm or so change in the nitrate level with that test kit. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. . com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level Today was PWC day.  I tested the water with API liquid before and after PWC.  Before the PWC Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, Nitrate was 10 and pH was 7.4.  I did a 25% PWC with vacuuming the gravel.  After the PWC I tested the water again and the results were the same.  I then tested my tap water and the Nitrate was 0.  I realize that 10 is not a bad level for Nitrate and there is no reason for concern, but I expected it to have dropped a little.  Maybe it did and it was not discernible on the test.  Does anyone know of another reason why the Nitrate might not come down?   Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28114	From: Kevin	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

Learning all you can and trying it,failing perhaps but trying again. Tis how you gain experience. > > And those that do them also have quite a bit of experience behind them > in maintaining marine systems. Doing such a small marine tank is > probably not the place someone without previous experience would want to > go, or should go. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 1:09 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes > > I am interested in starting a small 10gal. reef tank. and have been > investigating. It seems as though there is a good deal to learn to do > it right as the creatures and coral can be sensitive and the low volume > of water can cause parameters to flucuate fast. From what I have read > so far a small reef tank can have an initial cost close to a large > marine tank. I am hoping this is not true or that I can diy myself > around some of the equipment cost and stock it with one or two low > waste producing very small creatures. People who have them say they > are a challenge thats worth the effort and that very careful planning > of everything before hand is the key. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28115	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

Try a 50% change just to see if the test kits are working? Also, did you follow the directions to shake a full 30 seconds before adding the chemical and a full 60 seconds after? I've heard of the tests not working without the shaking, but I don't know what the results look like (too high or too low) in that scenario. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level Since your nitrates were only 10ppm and you did a 25% PWC with 0ppm nitrate tap water, it would have only lowered the nitrate in the tank to 7.5ppm which might still show up in the color range for the 10ppm. Since the API test kit has the color codes in increments of 5ppm for the nitrate test, I would imagine that the color difference would be minimal. Last, but not least, the colors on the API nitrate test kit are part of the spectrum that many people find difficult due to common color blindness that affects up to 25% of adults.. especially men. Here's a couple of free online color blindness testing sites if you want to check your own eyes. http://colorvisiontesting.com/ http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level Today was PWC day. I tested the water with API liquid before and after PWC. Before the PWC Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, Nitrate was 10 and pH was 7.4. I did a 25% PWC with vacuuming the gravel. After the PWC I tested the water again and the results were the same. I then tested my tap water and the Nitrate was 0. I realize that 10 is not a bad level for Nitrate and there is no reason for concern, but I expected it to have dropped a little. Maybe it did and it was not discernible on the test. Does anyone know of another reason why the Nitrate might not come down? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28116	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

> For those who have an interest, I found a couple of documents talking about > reagent expiration. Steve or Lenny. Is there a way to create a test solution to test the effectiveness of a test? I have two planted aquariums which have never shown any nitrate on a API test. I would to see something other than a 0ppm response. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28117	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Replacing internal filter

Hi everyone, I just brought a new INTERNAL filter for my 20G, (480 L/H), I couldn't take the (600 L/H) because it was too tall to be fully submerged. The old filter is internal too, and I also have an UNDER GRAVEL FILTER that has been working since the tank was established a year ago. The OLD internal filter was recently cleaned (4 days ago) by replacing the polyster piece in it, and squeezing the 'juice' of the old piece of polyster over the new one, according to Lenny's suggestion in his filteration article, so I don't think there's a lot of colonies in there yet. The question is: can I replace the internal filter without having to run the two internal filters togeather for the next couple of weeks? will the UGF do the biological (Nitrifying) work until the totally new filter is colonized with sufficient N-bacteria? BTW, I don't usually run the UG and internal filters at the same time to avoid strong water current in the small 20 G tank. will I need to run them togeather to establish the new internal filter properly? All the best, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28118	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

Dora, You asked this same question last Wednesday (May 28, 2008 @6:33 PM), as message number 28060. Both Lenny and I answered you! Lenny replied also on last Wednesday (May 28, @ 11:09 PM) with his message number 28062 -- and I replied to you the following day (Thursday, May 29, 2008 @9:22 AM). For some seemingly apparent reason, it appears that for some reason you have chosen to ignore these responses, perhaps looking for more in-depth answers (?) as I can't understand how you could miss both of our replies, unless our computor went ut on you (which you don't indicate today as that happening). I have sent you a well-detailed lengthy response, which had taken me some time to compose so as to make it as understandable to you as possible. I don't appreciate wasting my time. If for some reason you don't wish to receive replies from me, I would appreciate your informing me of this, and I will ignore all your posts from now on if this is what you prefer. If there's another reason why you are still asking the same question, I would certainly entertain your reply concerning this as I would really like to know if its different from the way it appears to me, and if this is the case, just refer back to the two messages I have just told you about for answers to your query. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Lenny, I need to know whether to rinse out the yellow gunck on the back of > my filter when I clean it in the water I just removed from the aquarium each > week. > > Mind you, I do a partial water change every night, except that lately the > chemistry seems to do better at every other night. But I only rinse out > hte filter once a week. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:09 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > While I'm sure some of the bacteria do live on the mulm, the majority of it > lives on the individual strands and surface areas of the actual filter > media. The N-bacteria need ammonia/nitrite but they also need lots of O2 > which they get from a constant supply of water flowing over them. When the > mulm buildup gets too thick so that the water doesn't flow through the > filter and instead flows over the top of the filter cartridge, the > N-bacteria will start to die off due to lack of O2. > > I do filter maintenance on one of my filter systems every week. I have two > systems on my 65G tank so I am technically doing filter maintenance every > two weeks on each system. I've read where some people wait until the filter > system water flow slows down before doing cleaning but I think this is > waiting too long. For one thing, it's allowing a lot of mulm/detritus to > build up and decay back into the tank. As I stated above, it also blocks > the water flowing to the N-bacteria so it starts to kill them off also. > > Seriously... it's bad enough that we make our fish swim around in their own > pee and poop for a week before doing a PWC... for those of us that do weekly > PWC's. Imagine what the water must be like after the fish have been in it > for a month or more like some folks wait between doing PWC's? It's too bad > our fish can't scream like a baby with a dirty diaper. That would sure > surprise the heck of out someone who likes to wait a long time between > PWC's. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I took out of > > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the back of > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there because it > > contains good bacteria? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down over time > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to increase the > PWC schedule on that tank. > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other things > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace minerals > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure and vacuum > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow down the > lowering of the pH. > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus from the > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. I have a > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and CO2 from > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals in the > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and do more > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's ecology > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another tank. > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get much too > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a 35G tank. > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large for a > 10G or 20G tank also. > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality issues but it > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune systems > and shorten their lifespans. > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what kind of fish > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of hamrad45 > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 > 7:20 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28119	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

Hi Noura, First I want to address your comment about not running both filters at the same time. This is not a good thing to do. When you turn off a filter, water quits flowing over/through the filter media and the good N-bacteria start to die off due to lack of O2 and food. This happens after only an hour or two so unless you are alternating the filters every hour, you aren't helping things by turning them off. Now on to your new filter. Can you take the filter media from the old filter and fit it into the new filter? If yes, then do that and run the new filter so the water flows over the old filter media first, then through the new filter media. After a couple of weeks, you can keep both filter media in the new filter but alternate cleaning them so one of them stays fully cycled at all times. This will also give you extra filter media to use in the event you ever need to set up a new tank, you could remove the extra "cycled" filter media and run it in the new tank filter so you will have a big head start on getting that tank fully cycled. With a UGF, a lot of the N-bacteria live on the surface areas of all of the gravel so changing the filter media does not affect the cycle as much with a UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi everyone, I just brought a new INTERNAL filter for my 20G, (480 L/H), I couldn't take the (600 L/H) because it was too tall to be fully submerged. The old filter is internal too, and I also have an UNDER GRAVEL FILTER that has been working since the tank was established a year ago. The OLD internal filter was recently cleaned (4 days ago) by replacing the polyster piece in it, and squeezing the 'juice' of the old piece of polyster over the new one, according to Lenny's suggestion in his filteration article, so I don't think there's a lot of colonies in there yet. The question is: can I replace the internal filter without having to run the two internal filters togeather for the next couple of weeks? will the UGF do the biological (Nitrifying) work until the totally new filter is colonized with sufficient N-bacteria? BTW, I don't usually run the UG and internal filters at the same time to avoid strong water current in the small 20 G tank. will I need to run them togeather to establish the new internal filter properly? All the best, Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28120	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

> Learning all you can and trying it,failing perhaps but trying again. > Tis how you gain experience. I might be out of line here, but failing means death to the animals involved, and not a pleasant one. It's also why many people leave the hobby because they set themselves up for failure. Salt water fish keeping is expensive and not easy to do correctly. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

As you probably know, a planted tank without much of a bioload will not have nitrates as the ammonia is utilized by the plants before it ever goes through the nitrogen cycle. Some people with planted tanks have to dose their tanks with nitrogenous compounds (among other things) to keep the plants well fed. If you know someone with a heavily stocked tank, you could test their tank and compare your results to theirs. There is probably something you can buy from a chemical testing company that would be used for testing and/or calibrating their test equipment. Or, if you want to pay the shipping, I'll send you a bottle of my goldfish tank water prior to a PWC. I think either of these options are expensive ways to get a nitrate reading. What about testing your tap/source water? In the USA, municipalities are allowed to have up to 10ppm of nitrates in the water. You could also contact API to see if they have a baseline solution or formula for creating a baseline solution. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:09 PM To: Aquaria 2 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level > For those who have an interest, I found a couple of documents talking about > reagent expiration. Steve or Lenny. Is there a way to create a test solution to test the effectiveness of a test? I have two planted aquariums which have never shown any nitrate on a API test. I would to see something other than a 0ppm response. Dana Rasmussen Seattle No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28122	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

I used to pickup pH solutions for specific pH values at That Fish Place. I never did this for other measurements since I was using a pH probe at the time that needed to be calibrated fairly often. You can try the Hach or LaMotte sites to see if they offer nitrate solutions of given nitrate levels to test against. Once you have the product name, you can go to www.froogle.com to look for the best price, since they should be available at other outlets, but you may need to try to buy them directly from the manufacturer. But, before you go through all that, if you have reagents that are relatively new, you may be getting an accurate reading from your test kit. Plants will utilize nitrates in the water column to provide needed nutrients to be able to photosynthesize, and you may have reached a point where your plants are using all the available nitrate \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 1:09 PM To: Aquaria 2 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level > For those who have an interest, I found a couple of documents talking about > reagent expiration. Steve or Lenny. Is there a way to create a test solution to test the effectiveness of a test? I have two planted aquariums which have never shown any nitrate on a API test. I would to see something other than a 0ppm response. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28123	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

Thanks to all who responded to my question about Nitrate level.  All of your ideas were good.  On reading my original post I noticed that I didn't mention that I had used two different Nitrate test and got the same results.  Both of them were API liquid test.  Both were in date according to the lot # and the manufacturers recommendations.  I ran out of the first Nitrate solutions a couple of weeks ago and started using new ones.  Both test gave consistent results.    Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo..com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2008 1:14:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level I used to pickup pH solutions for specific pH values at That Fish Place. I never did this for other measurements since I was using a pH probe at the time that needed to be calibrated fairly often. You can try the Hach or LaMotte sites to see if they offer nitrate solutions of given nitrate levels to test against. Once you have the product name, you can go to www.froogle. com to look for the best price, since they should be available at other outlets, but you may need to try to buy them directly from the manufacturer. But, before you go through all that, if you have reagents that are relatively new, you may be getting an accurate reading from your test kit. Plants will utilize nitrates in the water column to provide needed nutrients to be able to photosynthesize, and you may have reached a point where your plants are using all the available nitrate \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 1:09 PM To: Aquaria 2 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level > For those who have an interest, I found a couple of documents talking about > reagent expiration. Steve or Lenny. Is there a way to create a test solution to test the effectiveness of a test? I have two planted aquariums which have never shown any nitrate on a API test. I would to see something other than a 0ppm response. Dana Rasmussen Seattle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28124	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Water Well Question

As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC.  The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and this causes staining in the tubs and toilets.  Each year I have a water well service come and recharge the filter.  They are coming next week.   In the past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter was recharged  (other than it was safe for drinking).  Since the last recharging I have set up aquariums.  My question is should I expect any change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)?  Of course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28125	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

There's a hole inside the new filter's sponge, I can fit a piece of plyster from the old filter (about 1/4 of the whole plyster. Hope it will work. Thanks Lenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi Noura, First I want to address your comment about not running both filters at the same time. This is not a good thing to do. When you turn off a filter, water quits flowing over/through the filter media and the good N-bacteria start to die off due to lack of O2 and food. This happens after only an hour or two so unless you are alternating the filters every hour, you aren't helping things by turning them off. Now on to your new filter. Can you take the filter media from the old filter and fit it into the new filter? If yes, then do that and run the new filter so the water flows over the old filter media first, then through the new filter media. After a couple of weeks, you can keep both filter media in the new filter but alternate cleaning them so one of them stays fully cycled at all times. This will also give you extra filter media to use in the event you ever need to set up a new tank, you could remove the extra "cycled" filter media and run it in the new tank filter so you will have a big head start on getting that tank fully cycled. With a UGF, a lot of the N-bacteria live on the surface areas of all of the gravel so changing the filter media does not affect the cycle as much with a UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28126	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

> > But, before you go through all that, if you have reagents that are > relatively new, you may be getting an accurate reading from your test > kit. Plants will utilize nitrates in the water column to provide needed > nutrients to be able to photosynthesize, and you may have reached a > point where your plants are using all the available nitrate > > \\Steve// Thanks to both you and Lenny. This is my suspicion, as the readings are correct. I am not too concerned. The idea of asking someone to bring me some water that should show as a test is a good one. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28127	From: Steve	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

Hi guys I've been lurking for a couple of weeks so hope you are all well. Not sure if there are any other members from the UK in the group so I apologise if I use different terms as we tend to use the metric system for volume and temperature etc. To add to the nano cube debate it is evident from the recent aquaria shows around the world this year that small is once again beautiful. Technology for setting up, supporting and maintaining a small tank has progressed considerably in recent years. Although a smaller aquarium will generally cost less than a larger one as running costs should be lower, a small volume of water is much harder to maintain even for an experienced aquarist. Fundamentally I consider any decision to keep fish and other aquatic life, be it in cold-water, tropical or marine set-ups should be based on the desire to create the best possible living environment for the occupants. In order to do so requires both time and money. I am researching the possibility of setting up a marine tank, having kept several tropical tanks for over 15 years. My local stockist refers to the cold-water and tropical fish sections of his shop as black and white and the marine section as colour and its easy to see why but there are beautiful cold-water and tropical fish that are relatively inexpensive and easy to keep. To follow the advice of those who have posted before if you have the time and money to set up a marine tank and are prepared to learn then the very best of luck, inevitably there will be mistakes. Every fishkeeper experiences problems, some are of their own making and other things just happen. Knowing what to do, who to call or email, when things go wrong is all part of the learning. Regards Steve _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen Sent: 01 June 2008 18:15 To: Aquaria 2 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes > Learning all you can and trying it,failing perhaps but trying again. > Tis how you gain experience. I might be out of line here, but failing means death to the animals involved, and not a pleasant one. It's also why many people leave the hobby because they set themselves up for failure. Salt water fish keeping is expensive and not easy to do correctly. Dana Rasmussen Seattle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28128	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC.  The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and this causes staining in the tubs and toilets.  Each year I have a water well service come and recharge the filter.  They are coming next week.   In the past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter was recharged  (other than it was safe for drinking).  Since the last recharging I have set up aquariums.  My question is should I expect any change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)?  Of course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28129	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

I hate to disappoint you or your stockiest, as you call him, but there are an awful lot of tropical fish that can put the marines to shame. Take killies for instance. You'll not often see a killie in a shop for sale, but they can be had in the hobby via other hobbyists. The problem with them is that they breed differently than most fish only producing an egg, or a few eggs a day. Many of them go through a period known as diapauses. This is a time when they stop development for a period lasting from weeks to months, depending on the fish, and may need to be dried to a certain extent to allow for hatching when water is present. Do a Google using killifish as the search term and ask for images. You'll see that there are some that match your image of color vs. black and white, but you'll also see some of the gems that are out there. Once you get done checking out the killies, look at the badis using that as a search term. The naturally colored dwarf gouramis are a sight to behold, if they are kept properly. If you can find a glassfish that has not been painted, dyed, or otherwise manipulated, and give them the right conditions, you'll see that they are really quite iridescent, and flash gentle shades of many colors. The rift lake cichlids have some real nice coloring, if you can find a strain that has been properly maintained. A lot of the colors seen today are not what they should be due to sloppy breeding regimens and "accidental" cross-breedings. I could go on, but I think you see my point here, you do not need to go with marines to have good color in your tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes Hi guys I've been lurking for a couple of weeks so hope you are all well. Not sure if there are any other members from the UK in the group so I apologise if I use different terms as we tend to use the metric system for volume and temperature etc. To add to the nano cube debate it is evident from the recent aquaria shows around the world this year that small is once again beautiful. Technology for setting up, supporting and maintaining a small tank has progressed considerably in recent years. Although a smaller aquarium will generally cost less than a larger one as running costs should be lower, a small volume of water is much harder to maintain even for an experienced aquarist. Fundamentally I consider any decision to keep fish and other aquatic life, be it in cold-water, tropical or marine set-ups should be based on the desire to create the best possible living environment for the occupants. In order to do so requires both time and money. I am researching the possibility of setting up a marine tank, having kept several tropical tanks for over 15 years. My local stockist refers to the cold-water and tropical fish sections of his shop as black and white and the marine section as colour and its easy to see why but there are beautiful cold-water and tropical fish that are relatively inexpensive and easy to keep. To follow the advice of those who have posted before if you have the time and money to set up a marine tank and are prepared to learn then the very best of luck, inevitably there will be mistakes. Every fishkeeper experiences problems, some are of their own making and other things just happen. Knowing what to do, who to call or email, when things go wrong is all part of the learning. Regards Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28130	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

Actually I never got either reply, and I was watching for it. Why would you assume in such depth that I'm ignoring you? And when have you ever seen me have enough sense to ignore someone I didn't agree with or who didn't answer my question? Honest, I've never dealt with the like of the crotchety people on the fish lists, and I've nearly done trying to get along with you! There's no way to get it right, and one continually gets blasted. For some reason some responses to these lists are going to the bulk mail folder. Not because Yahoo has any logical reason to think they're bulk mail. Today one of my own posts to this list was in the bulk mail. They then download to my mailbox, but they have the label bulk mail, which is a very useful feature for the ton of actual bulk mail I get. I look through them but I can miss them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:25 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph Dora, You asked this same question last Wednesday (May 28, 2008 @6:33 PM), as message number 28060. Both Lenny and I answered you! Lenny replied also on last Wednesday (May 28, @ 11:09 PM) with his message number 28062 -- and I replied to you the following day (Thursday, May 29, 2008 @9:22 AM). For some seemingly apparent reason, it appears that for some reason you have chosen to ignore these responses, perhaps looking for more in-depth answers (?) as I can't understand how you could miss both of our replies, unless our computor went ut on you (which you don't indicate today as that happening). I have sent you a well-detailed lengthy response, which had taken me some time to compose so as to make it as understandable to you as possible. I don't appreciate wasting my time. If for some reason you don't wish to receive replies from me, I would appreciate your informing me of this, and I will ignore all your posts from now on if this is what you prefer. If there's another reason why you are still asking the same question, I would certainly entertain your reply concerning this as I would really like to know if its different from the way it appears to me, and if this is the case, just refer back to the two messages I have just told you about for answers to your query. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Lenny, I need to know whether to rinse out the yellow gunck on the back of > my filter when I clean it in the water I just removed from the aquarium each > week. > > Mind you, I do a partial water change every night, except that lately the > chemistry seems to do better at every other night. But I only rinse out > hte filter once a week. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:09 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > While I'm sure some of the bacteria do live on the mulm, the majority of it > lives on the individual strands and surface areas of the actual filter > media. The N-bacteria need ammonia/nitrite but they also need lots of O2 > which they get from a constant supply of water flowing over them. When the > mulm buildup gets too thick so that the water doesn't flow through the > filter and instead flows over the top of the filter cartridge, the > N-bacteria will start to die off due to lack of O2. > > I do filter maintenance on one of my filter systems every week. I have two > systems on my 65G tank so I am technically doing filter maintenance every > two weeks on each system. I've read where some people wait until the filter > system water flow slows down before doing cleaning but I think this is > waiting too long. For one thing, it's allowing a lot of mulm/detritus to > build up and decay back into the tank. As I stated above, it also blocks > the water flowing to the N-bacteria so it starts to kill them off also. > > Seriously... it's bad enough that we make our fish swim around in their own > pee and poop for a week before doing a PWC... for those of us that do weekly > PWC's. Imagine what the water must be like after the fish have been in it > for a month or more like some folks wait between doing PWC's? It's too bad > our fish can't scream like a baby with a dirty diaper. That would sure > surprise the heck of out someone who likes to wait a long time between > PWC's. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I took out of > > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the back of > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there because it > > contains good bacteria? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down over time > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to increase the > PWC schedule on that tank. > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other things > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace minerals > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure and vacuum > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow down the > lowering of the pH. > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus from the > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. I have a > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and CO2 from > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals in the > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and do more > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's ecology > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another tank. > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get much too > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a 35G tank. > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large for a > 10G or 20G tank also. > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality issues but it > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune systems > and shorten their lifespans. > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what kind of fish > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of hamrad45 > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 > 7:20 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28131	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

I found Lenny's reply in the list archives. Now, he sent it Wednesday and I got it yesterday, and while I thought it was useful information I didn't realize he was replying to me. Never understimate Yahoo's powers of slow delivery. Now to find out what happened to your reply. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:25 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph Dora, You asked this same question last Wednesday (May 28, 2008 @6:33 PM), as message number 28060. Both Lenny and I answered you! Lenny replied also on last Wednesday (May 28, @ 11:09 PM) with his message number 28062 -- and I replied to you the following day (Thursday, May 29, 2008 @9:22 AM). For some seemingly apparent reason, it appears that for some reason you have chosen to ignore these responses, perhaps looking for more in-depth answers (?) as I can't understand how you could miss both of our replies, unless our computor went ut on you (which you don't indicate today as that happening). I have sent you a well-detailed lengthy response, which had taken me some time to compose so as to make it as understandable to you as possible. I don't appreciate wasting my time. If for some reason you don't wish to receive replies from me, I would appreciate your informing me of this, and I will ignore all your posts from now on if this is what you prefer. If there's another reason why you are still asking the same question, I would certainly entertain your reply concerning this as I would really like to know if its different from the way it appears to me, and if this is the case, just refer back to the two messages I have just told you about for answers to your query. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Lenny, I need to know whether to rinse out the yellow gunck on the back of > my filter when I clean it in the water I just removed from the aquarium each > week. > > Mind you, I do a partial water change every night, except that lately the > chemistry seems to do better at every other night. But I only rinse out > hte filter once a week. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:09 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > While I'm sure some of the bacteria do live on the mulm, the majority of it > lives on the individual strands and surface areas of the actual filter > media. The N-bacteria need ammonia/nitrite but they also need lots of O2 > which they get from a constant supply of water flowing over them. When the > mulm buildup gets too thick so that the water doesn't flow through the > filter and instead flows over the top of the filter cartridge, the > N-bacteria will start to die off due to lack of O2. > > I do filter maintenance on one of my filter systems every week. I have two > systems on my 65G tank so I am technically doing filter maintenance every > two weeks on each system. I've read where some people wait until the filter > system water flow slows down before doing cleaning but I think this is > waiting too long. For one thing, it's allowing a lot of mulm/detritus to > build up and decay back into the tank. As I stated above, it also blocks > the water flowing to the N-bacteria so it starts to kill them off also. > > Seriously... it's bad enough that we make our fish swim around in their own > pee and poop for a week before doing a PWC... for those of us that do weekly > PWC's. Imagine what the water must be like after the fish have been in it > for a month or more like some folks wait between doing PWC's? It's too bad > our fish can't scream like a baby with a dirty diaper. That would sure > surprise the heck of out someone who likes to wait a long time between > PWC's. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I took out of > > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the back of > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there because it > > contains good bacteria? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down over time > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to increase the > PWC schedule on that tank. > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other things > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace minerals > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure and vacuum > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow down the > lowering of the pH. > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus from the > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. I have a > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and CO2 from > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals in the > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and do more > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's ecology > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another tank. > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get much too > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a 35G tank. > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large for a > 10G or 20G tank also. > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality issues but it > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune systems > and shorten their lifespans. > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what kind of fish > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of hamrad45 > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 > 7:20 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28132	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph - answered my question!

This answered my question. Thanks, Raymond! Last time I removed all the yellow stuff and this time I removed enough of it for water and air to get through - sounds like both were right. Lenny's reply was helpful, just hadn't realized he was talking to me, and while I applied the principal it didn't specifically speak to whether I should remove yellow gunk. Someone else suggested the nitrate level should give clues. Either Raymond or Lenny explained that that might not work. Actually I thought that if it's just decaying stuff that I should remove it might contribute to my problems cycling my tank, and if I did remove it and shouldn't it also might contribute to problems cycling my tank. Actually I've always looked at that nasty stuff and removed it until yesterday. (Note that at the moment ammonia and nitrites are close to zero and nitrates are low.) So I don't need to remove all of it as sludge may contain helpful bacteria, but I want to make sure air and water can get through? Yours, Dora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Dora, An often overlooked (or unknown by the hobbyist) facet of the > maintenance of aquarium filters, their materials and the substrate of > the tank concerning the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria you refer to, > and the "gunk" (mulm) -- or more properly "sludge" as its found as a > more compacted "yellow gook" in the filter is that while there are > some nitrifying bacteria colonizing the surface of this sludge, > internally this waste material is being colonized by heterotrophic > bacteria which are anaerobic. > > As opposed to our beneficial aerobic nitrifiers, these anaerobic > bacteria are often harmful in additionally creating noxious gases > such as methane, which is poisonous to the fish and depending upon > the species of these heterotrophic bacteria they may occasionally > revert the dissimilation (rather than denitrification) of these > nitrogenous compounds converting nitrate to nitrite and finally into > ammonia. For this reason alone, these materials should be removed > from filters whenever observed and should NOT be allowed to > accumulate; this bacteria's harmful effects far outweighs any > benefits the beneficial bacteria may offer and its non-productive in > allowing beneficial bacteria to colonize this sludge. > > Getting back to filters, materials and substrates, for best and most > efficient employment of all of your nitrifying bacteria the surfaces > of these sites should NEVER be allowed to build up any quantities of > mulm (in this case it is considered "mulm") and it should be kept to > a minimum -- not only to prevent the obvious reduction in water flow > but to maintain your bacteria populations at their peak at all times - > - and while reduced water flow equates to reduced oxygen to these > bacteria there is an overlooked element that is not realized. > > Most hobbyists are not aware of the detrimental effects to their > nitrifying bacteria, of the build-up of mulm and debris in their > filters and on the surfaces of their substrate. Since the Nitrospira > and Nitrobacter (nitrite converting bacteria) are totally dependant > on the productions of nitrite by the Nitrosomonas (ammonia converting > bacteria) and while they are found in close proximety to these > bacteria (populating the same surfaces), even though they will now be > taking their nutrients out of the water column their (Nitrospira and > Nitrobacter) physical closeness to the Nitrosomonas enables (and > encourages) them to take direct advantage of the nitrites immediately > being produced by these Nitrosomonas. > > Not especially a bad thing -- but when the bio-film is allowed to > excessively build up, these Nitrospiras and Nitrobacters can multiply > to the effect of overwhelming the Nitrosomonas, starving them of > oxygen. This has the effect of reducing the amounts of ammonia being > converted with the resultant starving out of the Nitrospiras and > Nitrobacters of food. A dangerous and detrimental downward spiral > takes effect. For this reason, while these surfaces do not need to > be spotless, any build-up of mulm and/or the excessive build-up of > their bio-film should be discouraged. Ray > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28133	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

Thanks Steve,   All I know right now is that there are acid filters and iron filters used in this area.  The one I have is an iron filter since that is the most problematic in this area.  I will contact the well service Monday before they come and find out exactly what they are using.  I don't think it will be a long term problem if any.  I just would like to be prepared for what every happens pH wise, etc.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2008 3:41:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC.  The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and this causes staining in the tubs and toilets.  Each year I have a water well service come and recharge the filter.  They are coming next week.   In the past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter was recharged  (other than it was safe for drinking).  Since the last recharging I have set up aquariums.  My question is should I expect any change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)?  Of course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28134	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

Dora, You do know you don't have to be here. The people that take the time to reply to you also do not have to spend their time replying to your messages. I have seen you try many peoples patience on this list as well as the other lists you post your same questions to. I was done trying to get along with you not too long after you joined this list and other lists we are both on. -Mike I've never dealt with the like of the crotchety people on the fish lists, and I've nearly done trying to get along with you! There's no way to get it right, and one continually gets blasted. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 2:39 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph Actually I never got either reply, and I was watching for it. Why would you assume in such depth that I'm ignoring you? And when have you ever seen me have enough sense to ignore someone I didn't agree with or who didn't answer my question? Honest, I've never dealt with the like of the crotchety people on the fish lists, and I've nearly done trying to get along with you! There's no way to get it right, and one continually gets blasted. For some reason some responses to these lists are going to the bulk mail folder. Not because Yahoo has any logical reason to think they're bulk mail. Today one of my own posts to this list was in the bulk mail. They then download to my mailbox, but they have the label bulk mail, which is a very useful feature for the ton of actual bulk mail I get. I look through them but I can miss them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:25 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph Dora, You asked this same question last Wednesday (May 28, 2008 @6:33 PM), as message number 28060. Both Lenny and I answered you! Lenny replied also on last Wednesday (May 28, @ 11:09 PM) with his message number 28062 -- and I replied to you the following day (Thursday, May 29, 2008 @9:22 AM). For some seemingly apparent reason, it appears that for some reason you have chosen to ignore these responses, perhaps looking for more in-depth answers (?) as I can't understand how you could miss both of our replies, unless our computor went ut on you (which you don't indicate today as that happening). I have sent you a well-detailed lengthy response, which had taken me some time to compose so as to make it as understandable to you as possible. I don't appreciate wasting my time. If for some reason you don't wish to receive replies from me, I would appreciate your informing me of this, and I will ignore all your posts from now on if this is what you prefer. If there's another reason why you are still asking the same question, I would certainly entertain your reply concerning this as I would really like to know if its different from the way it appears to me, and if this is the case, just refer back to the two messages I have just told you about for answers to your query. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Lenny, I need to know whether to rinse out the yellow gunck on the back of > my filter when I clean it in the water I just removed from the aquarium each > week. > > Mind you, I do a partial water change every night, except that lately the > chemistry seems to do better at every other night. But I only rinse out > hte filter once a week. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:09 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > While I'm sure some of the bacteria do live on the mulm, the majority of it > lives on the individual strands and surface areas of the actual filter > media. The N-bacteria need ammonia/nitrite but they also need lots of O2 > which they get from a constant supply of water flowing over them. When the > mulm buildup gets too thick so that the water doesn't flow through the > filter and instead flows over the top of the filter cartridge, the > N-bacteria will start to die off due to lack of O2. > > I do filter maintenance on one of my filter systems every week. I have two > systems on my 65G tank so I am technically doing filter maintenance every > two weeks on each system. I've read where some people wait until the filter > system water flow slows down before doing cleaning but I think this is > waiting too long. For one thing, it's allowing a lot of mulm/detritus to > build up and decay back into the tank. As I stated above, it also blocks > the water flowing to the N-bacteria so it starts to kill them off also. > > Seriously... it's bad enough that we make our fish swim around in their own > pee and poop for a week before doing a PWC... for those of us that do weekly > PWC's. Imagine what the water must be like after the fish have been in it > for a month or more like some folks wait between doing PWC's? It's too bad > our fish can't scream like a baby with a dirty diaper. That would sure > surprise the heck of out someone who likes to wait a long time between > PWC's. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I took out of > > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the back of > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there because it > > contains good bacteria? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down over time > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to increase the > PWC schedule on that tank. > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other things > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace minerals > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure and vacuum > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow down the > lowering of the pH. > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus from the > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. I have a > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and CO2 from > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals in the > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and do more > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's ecology > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another tank. > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get much too > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a 35G tank. > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large for a > 10G or 20G tank also. > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality issues but it > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune systems > and shorten their lifespans. > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what kind of fish > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of hamrad45 > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago I > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. All thanks > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have noticed over > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. Note that > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before putting in > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat fish). The > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there for some > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 > 7:20 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28135	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

Bah Humbug  :) I keep Rift Lake Cichlids as well as other fish and they are gorgeous. I also used to believe that only salt water fish were pretty until I wandered into the Cichlid area of the local fish stores. I walked away from the idea of a saltwater tank and now have over 25 freshwater tanks. I have been looking at Rainbow fish lately and bought a couple different ones and love watching them as well as my cichlids. A well done planted tank with fish is stunningingly beautiful in its own right. I am still working on setting up a nice planted tank. -Mike I am researching the possibility of setting up a marine tank, having kept several tropical tanks for over 15 years. My local stockist refers to the cold-water and tropical fish sections of his shop as black and white and the marine section as colour and its easy to see why but there are beautiful cold-water and tropical fish that are relatively inexpensive and easy to keep. -----Original Message----- From: Steve <stephen.abson@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:37 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes Hi guys I've been lurking for a couple of weeks so hope you are all well. Not sure if there are any other members from the UK in the group so I apologise if I use different terms as we tend to use the metric system for volume and temperature etc. To add to the nano cube debate it is evident from the recent aquaria shows around the world this year that small is once again beautiful. Technology for setting up, supporting and maintaining a small tank has progressed considerably in recent years. Although a smaller aquarium will generally cost less than a larger one as running costs should be lower, a small volume of water is much harder to maintain even for an experienced aquarist. Fundamentally I consider any decision to keep fish and other aquatic life, be it in cold-water, tropical or marine set-ups should be based on the desire to create the best possible living environment for the occupants. In order to do so requires both time and money. I am researching the possibility of setting up a marine tank, having kept several tropical tanks for over 15 years. My local stockist refers to the cold-water and tropical fish sections of his shop as black and white and the marine section as colour and its easy to see why but there are beautiful cold-water and tropical fish that are relatively inexpensive and easy to keep. To follow the advice of those who have posted before if you have the time and money to set up a marine tank and are prepared to learn then the very best of luck, inevitably there will be mistakes. Every fishkeeper experiences problems, some are of their own making and other things just happen. Knowing what to do, who to call or email, when things go wrong is all part of the learning. Regards Steve _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen Sent: 01 June 2008 18:15 To: Aquaria 2 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes > Learning all you can and trying it,failing perhaps but trying again. > Tis how you gain experience. I might be out of line here, but failing means death to the animals involved, and not a pleasant one. It's also why many people leave the hobby because they set themselves up for failure. Salt water fish keeping is expensive and not easy to do correctly. Dana Rasmussen Seattle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28136	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph - answered my question!

In a message dated 6/1/2008 6:15:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: This answered my question. Thanks, Raymond! Last time I removed all the yellow stuff and this time I removed enough of it for water and air to get through - sounds like both were right. Lenny's reply was helpful, just hadn't realized he was talking to me, and while I applied the principal it didn't specifically speak to whether I should remove yellow gunk. Dora: Maybe you are confused that gunk and bacteria are the same thing? Please remove the gunk or slime totally - whether green or yellow or any other color. Hasn't Lenny's blog, and EVERYONE'S reply convinced you of the importance of tank and filter cleanliness? Slime and gunk are not good things Dora. Wait - do not remove the gunk with detergents or any more harmful chemicals than you have already added to this tank. Good luck to you - and to your fish. Barbara **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28137	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

You have to admit that without otherwise knowing you've been having problems right along receiving messages, that your asking the same question over again (without such an indication to your ongoing problem) sure well seems like you either were not satisfied with the answers or you're choosing not to receive answers from certain people, myself included. Since you are unfortunately having this problem with Yahoo, you might have indicated such when you asked the same question again so that it didn't appear as if you were ignoring the first replies. Without knowing you have this Yahoo problem, it is assumed that you must have received the original replies -- and giving the benefit of the doubt, it can be seen that you may have missed one of these replies, but somewhat unlikely that you missed them both if you were looking forward to seeing them. Now that its understood that some of your messages are going to the bulk mail box, at least that part is now understood. I'm sure you would be crotchety too if you expended tge effort to try to help someone, only to have it appear as though that person completely ignored any help you were offering. I'm not saying that you did this, as you've explained the problem, but without a prior explanation that you're having Yahoo problems, hence you need to repost this same help request again, I was left with little other conclusion except to see this as I stated. I fully enjoy, and don't mind, taking the time to give others help on this and other Forums, even though the time invested may take me away from other things needing to be done. The reward is in sharing this hobby and seeing everyone succeed in it, with an acknowledgement of appreciation recipricated. But when its felt that there is no appreciation for these efforts, as this incident had it appear, I feel its a complete waste of time on my part to have seemingly thrown this time away when I could have used it more constructively elsewhere. Part of this "misinterpretation" stems from observing your repeatedly asking the same questions on other Groups, even after receiving the most satisfactory answers to your questions. I've seen your same queries on at least two other Groups I'm on which I also help moderate, and your repeated questions on all these groups make it appear as though you're never satisfied with the answers no matter how complete or no matter what Group they came from. Again, I'm not saying this is what happened at this time, but it makes one wonder. 'nuff said on this topic, hope your Yahoo mail problem improves. Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Actually I never got either reply, and I was watching for it. Why would you assume in such depth that I'm ignoring you? And when have you ever seen me have enough sense to ignore someone I didn't agree with or who didn't answer my question? Honest, I've never dealt with the like of the crotchety people on the fish lists, and I've nearly done trying to get along with you! There's no way to get it right, and one continually gets blasted. > > For some reason some responses to these lists are going to the bulk mail folder. Not because Yahoo has any logical reason to think they're bulk mail. Today one of my own posts to this list was in the bulk mail. They then download to my mailbox, but they have the label bulk mail, which is a very useful feature for the ton of actual bulk mail I get. I look through them but I can miss them. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:25 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph > > > Dora, You asked this same question last Wednesday (May 28, 2008 > @6:33 PM), as message number 28060. Both Lenny and I answered you! > Lenny replied also on last Wednesday (May 28, @ 11:09 PM) with his > message number 28062 -- and I replied to you the following day > (Thursday, May 29, 2008 @9:22 AM). > > For some seemingly apparent reason, it appears that for some reason > you have chosen to ignore these responses, perhaps looking for more > in-depth answers (?) as I can't understand how you could miss both of > our replies, unless our computor went ut on you (which you don't > indicate today as that happening). > > I have sent you a well-detailed lengthy response, which had taken me > some time to compose so as to make it as understandable to you as > possible. I don't appreciate wasting my time. If for some reason > you don't wish to receive replies from me, I would appreciate your > informing me of this, and I will ignore all your posts from now on if > this is what you prefer. > > If there's another reason why you are still asking the same question, > I would certainly entertain your reply concerning this as I would > really like to know if its different from the way it appears to me, > and if this is the case, just refer back to the two messages I have > just told you about for answers to your query. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > Lenny, I need to know whether to rinse out the yellow gunck on the > back of > > my filter when I clean it in the water I just removed from the > aquarium each > > week. > > > > Mind you, I do a partial water change every night, except that > lately the > > chemistry seems to do better at every other night. But I only > rinse out > > hte filter once a week. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:09 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > > > While I'm sure some of the bacteria do live on the mulm, the > majority of it > > lives on the individual strands and surface areas of the actual > filter > > media. The N-bacteria need ammonia/nitrite but they also need lots > of O2 > > which they get from a constant supply of water flowing over them. > When the > > mulm buildup gets too thick so that the water doesn't flow through > the > > filter and instead flows over the top of the filter cartridge, the > > N-bacteria will start to die off due to lack of O2. > > > > I do filter maintenance on one of my filter systems every week. I > have two > > systems on my 65G tank so I am technically doing filter maintenance > every > > two weeks on each system. I've read where some people wait until > the filter > > system water flow slows down before doing cleaning but I think this > is > > waiting too long. For one thing, it's allowing a lot of > mulm/detritus to > > build up and decay back into the tank. As I stated above, it also > blocks > > the water flowing to the N-bacteria so it starts to kill them off > also. > > > > Seriously... it's bad enough that we make our fish swim around in > their own > > pee and poop for a week before doing a PWC... for those of us that > do weekly > > PWC's. Imagine what the water must be like after the fish have > been in it > > for a month or more like some folks wait between doing PWC's? It's > too bad > > our fish can't scream like a baby with a dirty diaper. That would > sure > > surprise the heck of out someone who likes to wait a long time > between > > PWC's. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:05 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I > took out of > > > > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the > back of > > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there > because it > > > > contains good bacteria? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down > over time > > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to > increase the > > PWC schedule on that tank. > > > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other > things > > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace > minerals > > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure > and vacuum > > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow > down the > > lowering of the pH. > > > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus > from the > > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. > I have a > > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and > CO2 from > > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals > in the > > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and > do more > > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's > ecology > > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another > tank. > > > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get > much too > > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a > 35G tank. > > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large > for a > > 10G or 20G tank also. > > > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality > issues but it > > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune > systems > > and shorten their lifespans. > > > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon > Tank > > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what > kind of fish > > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of hamrad45 > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago > I > > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. > All thanks > > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have > noticed over > > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. > Note that > > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before > putting in > > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat > fish). The > > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there > for some > > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > > > Thanks for your time, > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: > 5/28/2008 > > 7:20 AM > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28138	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph

Glad to see you received Lenny's reply, albeit unexplanably late. You do have a Yahoo problem; I receive his message within minutes of it being posted (none of the Moderators' posts are moderated so they are posted almost instantaneously). With the same subject line, and its content pertaining directly to your question, I don't understand how you could not perceive it to be replying to you. Putting it even in another way, even if you had not seen Lenny's post as replying to you -- if the information given was pertanent to your question, and its content filled (or helped to fill) in your quest for information on this topic, it would seem to be most useful (and may have given you the first clue that it was directed at you). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I found Lenny's reply in the list archives. Now, he sent it Wednesday and I got it yesterday, and while I thought it was useful information I didn't realize he was replying to me. > > Never understimate Yahoo's powers of slow delivery. Now to find out what happened to your reply. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:25 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing Ph > > > Dora, You asked this same question last Wednesday (May 28, 2008 > @6:33 PM), as message number 28060. Both Lenny and I answered you! > Lenny replied also on last Wednesday (May 28, @ 11:09 PM) with his > message number 28062 -- and I replied to you the following day > (Thursday, May 29, 2008 @9:22 AM). > > For some seemingly apparent reason, it appears that for some reason > you have chosen to ignore these responses, perhaps looking for more > in-depth answers (?) as I can't understand how you could miss both of > our replies, unless our computor went ut on you (which you don't > indicate today as that happening). > > I have sent you a well-detailed lengthy response, which had taken me > some time to compose so as to make it as understandable to you as > possible. I don't appreciate wasting my time. If for some reason > you don't wish to receive replies from me, I would appreciate your > informing me of this, and I will ignore all your posts from now on if > this is what you prefer. > > If there's another reason why you are still asking the same question, > I would certainly entertain your reply concerning this as I would > really like to know if its different from the way it appears to me, > and if this is the case, just refer back to the two messages I have > just told you about for answers to your query. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > Lenny, I need to know whether to rinse out the yellow gunck on the > back of > > my filter when I clean it in the water I just removed from the > aquarium each > > week. > > > > Mind you, I do a partial water change every night, except that > lately the > > chemistry seems to do better at every other night. But I only > rinse out > > hte filter once a week. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:09 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > > > While I'm sure some of the bacteria do live on the mulm, the > majority of it > > lives on the individual strands and surface areas of the actual > filter > > media. The N-bacteria need ammonia/nitrite but they also need lots > of O2 > > which they get from a constant supply of water flowing over them. > When the > > mulm buildup gets too thick so that the water doesn't flow through > the > > filter and instead flows over the top of the filter cartridge, the > > N-bacteria will start to die off due to lack of O2. > > > > I do filter maintenance on one of my filter systems every week. I > have two > > systems on my 65G tank so I am technically doing filter maintenance > every > > two weeks on each system. I've read where some people wait until > the filter > > system water flow slows down before doing cleaning but I think this > is > > waiting too long. For one thing, it's allowing a lot of > mulm/detritus to > > build up and decay back into the tank. As I stated above, it also > blocks > > the water flowing to the N-bacteria so it starts to kill them off > also. > > > > Seriously... it's bad enough that we make our fish swim around in > their own > > pee and poop for a week before doing a PWC... for those of us that > do weekly > > PWC's. Imagine what the water must be like after the fish have > been in it > > for a month or more like some folks wait between doing PWC's? It's > too bad > > our fish can't scream like a baby with a dirty diaper. That would > sure > > surprise the heck of out someone who likes to wait a long time > between > > PWC's. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:05 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > Lenny, I have a question about cleaning hte filter. > > > > So far I've been rinsing out the filter each week in the water I > took out of > > > > the aquarium. I've been removing a buildup of yellow gook on the > back of > > hte filter. Am I supposed to remove this guck or leave it there > because it > > > > contains good bacteria? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:44 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > > > A general fact about aquariums is that the pH will always go down > over time > > unless there are buffers added to the water. You may need to > increase the > > PWC schedule on that tank. > > > > Decaying detritus in the gravel puts out carbonic acid among other > things > > and the bacteria eating the detritus also use up many of the trace > minerals > > and elements in the water and put out CO2. You should make sure > and vacuum > > the gravel to remove most of the decaying detritus which will slow > down the > > lowering of the pH. > > > > Also, regular filter maintenance will remove the decaying detritus > from the > > filter system which is also using up a lot of the trace elements and > > minerals in the water and putting out more CO2 and carbonic acid. > I have a > > long article on my blog about "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". > > > > Also, your fish, as they grow, also put out a lot more waste and > CO2 from > > breathing and use up a lot more of the trace elements and minerals > in the > > water. The CO2 from the fish will also lower the pH. > > > > This is why it's so important to do regular testing on a tank and > do more > > PWC's (partial water changes) on a tank that needs it. Each tank's > ecology > > is different and what works for one tank might not work for another > tank. > > > > You mention Angelfish and Catfish. The Angelfish definitely get > much too > > large for 10G or 20G tanks. A single Angelfish needs at least a > 35G tank. > > The Catfish, depending on which species, usually get much too large > for a > > 10G or 20G tank also. > > > > Having undersized tanks will not only cause you water quality > issues but it > > will also cause stunting to the fish which will lower their immune > systems > > and shorten their lifespans. > > > > If you go to my blog, I have a long article on "Hailey's 10 Gallon > Tank > > Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a better idea of what > kind of fish > > you could keep in a 10G tank that will not cause problems. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of hamrad45 > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing Ph > > > > I have three tanks, 2 ten gallons and 1 20 gallon. A few months ago > I > > switched from using bottled water to tap water for water changes. > All thanks > > have had a ph of 7.6 since the start (over a year ago). I have > noticed over > > the past few weeks one of the tanks ph has changed and is now 6.0. > Note that > > the tap water ph is 7.6 and I add water conditioner to it before > putting in > > the tank as it has a high chlorine content. > > > > Any idea what could have caused this change? > > > > Should I do something to get it back to 7.6? > > > > Also, all tanks have about the same fish types (angel, platy, cat > fish). The > > tank with the lower ph has two snails but they have been in there > for some > > time and the 20 gallon tank has one snail too. > > > > Thanks for your time, > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: > 5/28/2008 > > 7:20 AM > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28139	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Changing Ph - answered my question!

Glad I was able to answer your question, although if you are now deciding not to remove all of the sludge, you have apparently misread my recommendations. I also found Lenny's reply to be helpful too, although I can't say if it completely filled in your question. Sometimes in trying to get important points across, we may miss something not quite as important to us at the moment, and with it, not realize the importance of a lesser point to the questioner. Perhaps this may have happened here. You are right to remove (and should remove) any and all such gunk you see as physical residue in your filter, up until yesterday, and should continue to remove it. (You may need to re-read my post on this subject). It serves absolutely no purpose there if its decaying matter, even if helpful bacteria are colonizing it (the filter can well do without this sludge). Even if the helpful bacteria are successful in rendering this substance relatively harmless, the by- products (nitrate) of this procedure will only go back into your water column, adding to your waste end products for all intents and purposes. And . . . there's always the possibility of denitrification if the sludge is viscous (no, not "vicious") enough so as to harbour anaerobic bacteria within it. Not needing to go into this process further here, but for those who may be curious, in time (and if left in place) the nitrate would eventually get broken down further into nitrogen, but as this process would take too long for the amount of nitrate that can build up rather quickly in an enclosed environment, its best in our case to remove this excess periodically via PWC's. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > This answered my question. Thanks, Raymond! > > Last time I removed all the yellow stuff and this time I removed > enough of it for water and air to get through - sounds like both were > right. > > Lenny's reply was helpful, just hadn't realized he was talking to me, > and while I applied the principal it didn't specifically speak to > whether I should remove yellow gunk. > > Someone else suggested the nitrate level should give clues. Either > Raymond or Lenny explained that that might not work. Actually I > thought that if it's just decaying stuff that I should remove it > might contribute to my problems cycling my tank, and if I did remove > it and shouldn't it also might contribute to problems cycling my > tank. Actually I've always looked at that nasty stuff and removed > it until yesterday. (Note that at the moment ammonia and nitrites > are close to zero and nitrates are low.) > > So I don't need to remove all of it as sludge may contain helpful > bacteria, but I want to make sure air and water can get through? > > Yours, > Dora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Dora, An often overlooked (or unknown by the hobbyist) facet of > the > > maintenance of aquarium filters, their materials and the substrate > of > > the tank concerning the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria you refer > to, > > and the "gunk" (mulm) -- or more properly "sludge" as its found as > a > > more compacted "yellow gook" in the filter is that while there are > > some nitrifying bacteria colonizing the surface of this sludge, > > internally this waste material is being colonized by heterotrophic > > bacteria which are anaerobic. > > > > As opposed to our beneficial aerobic nitrifiers, these anaerobic > > bacteria are often harmful in additionally creating noxious gases > > such as methane, which is poisonous to the fish and depending upon > > the species of these heterotrophic bacteria they may occasionally > > revert the dissimilation (rather than denitrification) of these > > nitrogenous compounds converting nitrate to nitrite and finally > into > > ammonia. For this reason alone, these materials should be removed > > from filters whenever observed and should NOT be allowed to > > accumulate; this bacteria's harmful effects far outweighs any > > benefits the beneficial bacteria may offer and its non-productive > in > > allowing beneficial bacteria to colonize this sludge. > > > > Getting back to filters, materials and substrates, for best and > most > > efficient employment of all of your nitrifying bacteria the > surfaces > > of these sites should NEVER be allowed to build up any quantities > of > > mulm (in this case it is considered "mulm") and it should be kept > to > > a minimum -- not only to prevent the obvious reduction in water > flow > > but to maintain your bacteria populations at their peak at all > times - > > - and while reduced water flow equates to reduced oxygen to these > > bacteria there is an overlooked element that is not realized. > > > > Most hobbyists are not aware of the detrimental effects to their > > nitrifying bacteria, of the build-up of mulm and debris in their > > filters and on the surfaces of their substrate. Since the > Nitrospira > > and Nitrobacter (nitrite converting bacteria) are totally dependant > > on the productions of nitrite by the Nitrosomonas (ammonia > converting > > bacteria) and while they are found in close proximety to these > > bacteria (populating the same surfaces), even though they will now > be > > taking their nutrients out of the water column their (Nitrospira > and > > Nitrobacter) physical closeness to the Nitrosomonas enables (and > > encourages) them to take direct advantage of the nitrites > immediately > > being produced by these Nitrosomonas. > > > > Not especially a bad thing -- but when the bio-film is allowed to > > excessively build up, these Nitrospiras and Nitrobacters can > multiply > > to the effect of overwhelming the Nitrosomonas, starving them of > > oxygen. This has the effect of reducing the amounts of ammonia > being > > converted with the resultant starving out of the Nitrospiras and > > Nitrobacters of food. A dangerous and detrimental downward spiral > > takes effect. For this reason, while these surfaces do not need to > > be spotless, any build-up of mulm and/or the excessive build-up of > > their bio-film should be discouraged. Ray > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28140	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

Sorry.. I'm a city-slicker with nearly liquid brick water out the tap so I don't know much about wells... except for all I've read from others over the years. I sure wish I had a well on my property... an OIL WELL!!!! ;-) Jimmy... Is Husser any where near that BIG new oil find up in northern Louisiana... supposedly running from Shreveport to Monroe and up into Arkansas? I know I could check Google Maps but my wish for an oil well on my property sequed into my asking here. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and this causes staining in the tubs and toilets. Each year I have a water well service come and recharge the filter. They are coming next week. In the past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter was recharged (other than it was safe for drinking). Since the last recharging I have set up aquariums. My question is should I expect any change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)? Of course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28141	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrate Level

What about going to a lfs? I bet you could test their water. Or if there's a Walmart in the area I'm sure they'd have high nitrates. --- On Sun, 6/1/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 1, 2008, 11:49 AM > As you probably know, a planted tank without much of a > bioload will not > have nitrates as the ammonia is utilized by the plants > before it ever goes > through the nitrogen cycle. Some people with planted tanks > have to dose > their tanks with nitrogenous compounds (among other things) > to keep the > plants well fed. > > If you know someone with a heavily stocked tank, you could > test their tank > and compare your results to theirs. > > There is probably something you can buy from a chemical > testing company that > would be used for testing and/or calibrating their test > equipment. Or, if > you want to pay the shipping, I'll send you a bottle of > my goldfish tank > water prior to a PWC. I think either of these options are > expensive ways to > get a nitrate reading. What about testing your tap/source > water? In the > USA, municipalities are allowed to have up to 10ppm of > nitrates in the > water. > > You could also contact API to see if they have a baseline > solution or > formula for creating a baseline solution. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:09 PM > To: Aquaria 2 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrate Level > > > For those who have an interest, I found a couple of > documents talking > about > > reagent expiration. > Steve or Lenny. > Is there a way to create a test solution to test the > effectiveness of a > test? I have two planted aquariums which have never shown > any nitrate on a > API test. I would to see something other than a 0ppm > response. > Dana Rasmussen > Seattle > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release > Date: 5/31/2008 > 12:25 PM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> > ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. > , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28142	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

I'm hooked on planted tanks. This is my latest. http://a557.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/44/l_a743afeeecbf1f649cbc2985646d9964.jpg It's a little more filled in now. I love working with freshwater shrimp too. I started another tank for Sparkling Gourami's recently as well. I love the subtle colors and the way the light brings them out. Kate --- On Sun, 6/1/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 1, 2008, 4:40 PM Bah Humbug :) I keep Rift Lake Cichlids as well as other fish and they are gorgeous. I also used to believe that only salt water fish were pretty until I wandered into the Cichlid area of the local fish stores. I walked away from the idea of a saltwater tank and now have over 25 freshwater tanks. I have been looking at Rainbow fish lately and bought a couple different ones and love watching them as well as my cichlids. A well done planted tank with fish is stunningingly beautiful in its own right. I am still working on setting up a nice planted tank. -Mike I am researching the possibility of setting up a marine tank, having kept several tropical tanks for over 15 years. My local stockist refers to the cold-water and tropical fish sections of his shop as black and white and the marine section as colour and its easy to see why but there are beautiful cold-water and tropical fish that are relatively inexpensive and easy to keep. -----Original Message----- From: Steve <stephen.abson@ sky.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:37 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes Hi guys I've been lurking for a couple of weeks so hope you are all well. Not sure if there are any other members from the UK in the group so I apologise if I use different terms as we tend to use the metric system for volume and temperature etc. To add to the nano cube debate it is evident from the recent aquaria shows around the world this year that small is once again beautiful. Technology for setting up, supporting and maintaining a small tank has progressed considerably in recent years. Although a smaller aquarium will generally cost less than a larger one as running costs should be lower, a small volume of water is much harder to maintain even for an experienced aquarist. Fundamentally I consider any decision to keep fish and other aquatic life, be it in cold-water, tropical or marine set-ups should be based on the desire to create the best possible living environment for the occupants. In order to do so requires both time and money. I am researching the possibility of setting up a marine tank, having kept several tropical tanks for over 15 years. My local stockist refers to the cold-water and tropical fish sections of his shop as black and white and the marine section as colour and its easy to see why but there are beautiful cold-water and tropical fish that are relatively inexpensive and easy to keep. To follow the advice of those who have posted before if you have the time and money to set up a marine tank and are prepared to learn then the very best of luck, inevitably there will be mistakes. Every fishkeeper experiences problems, some are of their own making and other things just happen. Knowing what to do, who to call or email, when things go wrong is all part of the learning. Regards Steve _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen Sent: 01 June 2008 18:15 To: Aquaria 2 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes > Learning all you can and trying it,failing perhaps but trying again. > Tis how you gain experience. I might be out of line here, but failing means death to the animals involved, and not a pleasant one. It's also why many people leave the hobby because they set themselves up for failure. Salt water fish keeping is expensive and not easy to do correctly. Dana Rasmussen Seattle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28143	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: pH change units?

I asked around the local aquarium shop over the weekend because the pH in my freshwater setup drives me nuts after each partial water change. The water here (Eastern Panhandle of WV) is incredibly alkaline. I use our town water after purging the pipes of softened water for 24 hours. I have an RO unit that I use for topping off water losses, but it only provides a few gallons per hour. I try to keep my setup at around 7.0 - 7.2, but my pH kit shows my tank's pH as at least 7.4 - 7.6 after a 25% water change. Actually, it looks as if it's off the top of the pH color chart I use... It takes me the better part of a week to bring it down, because I get a pH block that takes a lot of acid to break through. It's gotten to the point that I have to use half a dozen pH Down treatments just to get the pH to move. This can't be good for my fish...I've gone to partial water changes every other week to try to minimize the pH changes. The local shop owner told me that there are units that hook to the local water source that provide pH neutral water. He specifically said that it's NOT an RO unit. Exactly what are these units called and who makes them? Do these units work as advertised? At the rate I buy pH Down and similar products, I could easily pay for one. Any ideas, suggestions are welcome...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28144	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

Lenny, � Husser is in Tangipahoa Parish just west of�St. Tammany Parish, about 35 miles�north of�Covington, LA.� It is in far east LA (in the toe of the boot).� No oil wells here, just dairy cows and water wells.� I don't think there will be a�problem with recharging the filter on the well.� If so it should be only temporary. I'll watch it closely, testing every day until I'm sure it is stable. �Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2008 9:38:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question Sorry.. I'm a city-slicker with nearly liquid brick water out the tap so I don't know much about wells... except for all I've read from others over the years.� I sure wish I had a well on my property... an OIL WELL!!!!� ;-) Jimmy... Is Husser any where near that BIG new oil find up in northern Louisiana... supposedly running from Shreveport to Monroe and up into Arkansas?� I know I could check Google Maps but my wish for an oil well on my property sequed into my asking here. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and this causes staining in the tubs and toilets.� Each year I have a water well service come and recharge the filter.� They are coming next week.� In the past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter was recharged� (other than it was safe for drinking).� Since the last recharging I have set up aquariums.� My question is should I expect any change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)?� Of course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28145	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?

What kind of fish are you keeping? Most fish do not need 7.0 - 7.2 pH water and can tolerate and thrive in a much broader pH range... as long as it's relatively stabile. All of the chemicals you are adding to your tank is possibly doing more harm than the "natural" pH. What is your tap water baseline? Fill a gallon bucket. Test it with all of your available tests. Add your dechlor product. If you have a spare air stone, run it in the bucket. Test it again at 24 hours and 48 hours. Post your numbers so we can see what is happening. In most cases, the pH will go down since the buffers added by the utility will dissipate once exposed to air and light (that's why most medicines/chemicals are in opaque and/or brown bottles). This baseline test will give you a better idea of what will happen to your tap water in your tank... without the effect of the ecology of the tank.. which will further lower the pH... unless you have something in the tank that is leaching hardness into the water. One last note... you might be better off running peat moss in your filter system as a way of "naturally" lowering your pH instead of using all them chemicals. Adding a piece of driftwood would also help lower the pH naturally and more slowly than the chemicals... which is better for the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH change units? I asked around the local aquarium shop over the weekend because the pH in my freshwater setup drives me nuts after each partial water change. The water here (Eastern Panhandle of WV) is incredibly alkaline. I use our town water after purging the pipes of softened water for 24 hours. I have an RO unit that I use for topping off water losses, but it only provides a few gallons per hour. I try to keep my setup at around 7.0 - 7.2, but my pH kit shows my tank's pH as at least 7.4 - 7.6 after a 25% water change. Actually, it looks as if it's off the top of the pH color chart I use... It takes me the better part of a week to bring it down, because I get a pH block that takes a lot of acid to break through. It's gotten to the point that I have to use half a dozen pH Down treatments just to get the pH to move. This can't be good for my fish...I've gone to partial water changes every other week to try to minimize the pH changes. The local shop owner told me that there are units that hook to the local water source that provide pH neutral water. He specifically said that it's NOT an RO unit. Exactly what are these units called and who makes them? Do these units work as advertised? At the rate I buy pH Down and similar products, I could easily pay for one. Any ideas, suggestions are welcome... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1478 - Release Date: 6/2/2008 7:12 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28146	From: Kate	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Mold/Melafix

Hey everyone, I've been battling with a mold issue in my paludarium for a while. I think I posted here with questions. I was thinking about spraying down the tank with some melafix(diluted of course) since it's an antifungal and claims to not hurt plants. Another idea was rubbing the affected areas(cork bark and branches) with a 2% bleach solution. There are no animals currently living in the set up. Any thoughts? Thanks, Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28147	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

That is a beautiful tank - what is the twisty- bamboo - woody type stuff in the center? In a message dated 6/2/2008 12:22:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, k8hardy@... writes: I'm hooked on planted tanks. This is my latest. http://a557.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/44/l_a743afeeecbf1f649cbc2985646 d9964.jpg It's a little more filled in now. I love working with freshwater shrimp too. I started another tank for Sparkling Gourami's recently as well. I love the subtle colors and the way the light brings them out. Kate **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28148	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?

Gregg, Why do you need the pH to go down? What are keeping? Given time fish usually adjust to your pH. At one time I tried to adjust my pH to keep at what the book stated fish needed to be at. The result was dead fish. I never add chemicals to adjust any more. I will leave driftwood in some tanks and make partial water changes at times, or coral substrate with partial water changes. -Mike In a message dated 6/2/2008 9:28:00 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, greggb57@... writes: I asked around the local aquarium shop over the weekend because the pH in my freshwater setup drives me nuts after each partial water change. The water here (Eastern Panhandle of WV) is incredibly alkaline. I use our town water after purging the pipes of softened water for 24 hours. I have an RO unit that I use for topping off water losses, but it only provides a few gallons per hour. I try to keep my setup at around 7.0 - 7.2, but my pH kit shows my tank's pH as at least 7.4 - 7.6 after a 25% water change. Actually, it looks as if it's off the top of the pH color chart I use... It takes me the better part of a week to bring it down, because I get a pH block that takes a lot of acid to break through. It's gotten to the point that I have to use half a dozen pH Down treatments just to get the pH to move. This can't be good for my fish...I've gone to partial water changes every other week to try to minimize the pH changes. The local shop owner told me that there are units that hook to the local water source that provide pH neutral water. He specifically said that it's NOT an RO unit. Exactly what are these units called and who makes them? Do these units work as advertised? At the rate I buy pH Down and similar products, I could easily pay for one. Any ideas, suggestions are welcome... **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28149	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?

In a message dated 6/2/2008 12:27:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, greggb57@... writes: I try to keep my setup at around 7.0 - 7.2, but my pH kit shows my tank's pH as at least 7.4 - 7.6 after a 25% water change. Actually, it looks as if it's off the top of the pH color chart I use... That's exactly where my ph is and my fish love it. NOT off the top of the chart but between 7.4 and 7.6. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28150	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?

7.6 is not exactly off the chart, maybe it is on a low pH test kit. My fish seem to do fine at 8.0 and higher I know many of my cichlids can deal with even higher pH. Most of what we read about fish and pH is what they are found in in the wild. After being acclimated or raised in captivity a strict pH of what they originate from is not usually necessary. -Mike In a message dated 6/2/2008 4:49:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Maxmillionmaxcat@... writes: In a message dated 6/2/2008 12:27:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, _greggb57@..._ (mailto:greggb57@...) writes: I try to keep my setup at around 7.0 - 7.2, but my pH kit shows my tank's pH as at least 7.4 - 7.6 after a 25% water change. Actually, it looks as if it's off the top of the pH color chart I use... That's exactly where my ph is and my fish love it. NOT off the top of the chart but between 7.4 and 7.6. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28151	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

Hi , I noticed that the sponge inside the new filter has really big holes. you can see the light through them. I was wondering if I can replace it with two 'twin' pieces of sponge with smaller holes, I bought a cube of "washing-dishes" sponge, colored.. can it work? Any advise? BTW, the filter contains a sealed carbon container, which I'm planning to open and empty a couple of weeks later, what do you suggest to put instead of the activated carbon: ciramic, plyster, floss pads, keep empty.. etc?? Thanks, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter There's a hole inside the new filter's sponge, I can fit a piece of plyster from the old filter (about 1/4 of the whole plyster. Hope it will work. Thanks Lenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi Noura, First I want to address your comment about not running both filters at the same time. This is not a good thing to do. When you turn off a filter, water quits flowing over/through the filter media and the good N-bacteria start to die off due to lack of O2 and food. This happens after only an hour or two so unless you are alternating the filters every hour, you aren't helping things by turning them off. Now on to your new filter. Can you take the filter media from the old filter and fit it into the new filter? If yes, then do that and run the new filter so the water flows over the old filter media first, then through the new filter media. After a couple of weeks, you can keep both filter media in the new filter but alternate cleaning them so one of them stays fully cycled at all times. This will also give you extra filter media to use in the event you ever need to set up a new tank, you could remove the extra "cycled" filter media and run it in the new tank filter so you will have a big head start on getting that tank fully cycled. With a UGF, a lot of the N-bacteria live on the surface areas of all of the gravel so changing the filter media does not affect the cycle as much with a UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28152	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

Noura, I would not use sponges designed for washing dishes. Many of these sponges come with detergents or anti- mildew agents that may be deadly to your fish. -Mike In a message dated 6/2/2008 5:53:28 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n-taweel@... writes: Hi , I noticed that the sponge inside the new filter has really big holes. you can see the light through them. I was wondering if I can replace it with two 'twin' pieces of sponge with smaller holes, I bought a cube of "washing-dishes" sponge, colored.. can it work? Any advise? BTW, the filter contains a sealed carbon container, which I'm planning to open and empty a couple of weeks later, what do you suggest to put instead of the activated carbon: ciramic, plyster, floss pads, keep empty.. etc?? Thanks, Noura **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28153	From: Carmen H	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Mold/Melafix

Isn't Pimafix the fungal (vs. bacterial) one? Carmen On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Kate <k8hardy@...> wrote: > Hey everyone, > I've been battling with a mold issue in my paludarium for a while. I > think I posted here with questions. I was thinking about spraying down > the tank with some melafix(diluted of course) since it's an antifungal

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28154	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Mold/Melafix

Pimafix is the antifungal. Melafix is an antibacterial product. If the tank is new, the mold is not uncommon and will eventually die off as the ecology of the tank establishes itself. I've seen this in the past when adding a piece of driftwood to a new tank and you can find countless postings in forums about this. If you don't have Pimafix, you could try... and I'd try this first... using a turkey baster and squirting non-diluted Hydrogen Peroxide on the mold. The "normal" HP that you buy at a drug store is usually 3% and I've used this on hair algae with no problems at doses of 1 oz. per 10G in a tank with fish. HP is H2O2 so it's chemically very similar to water H2O. HP simply has an extra Oxygen molecule so it has an oxidizing effect on things. Once it oxidizes (bubbles), that is the extra Oxygen molecule leaving which basically leaves distilled water as a byproduct. Here are some threads/articles on using HP on various types of algae and there may be some mention about using it on mold also. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hair-algae.html I wouldn't use bleach.. even in a very diluted solution as it would take an awful lot of dechlor to stabilize the chlorine released in using bleach. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 3:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mold/Melafix Hey everyone, I've been battling with a mold issue in my paludarium for a while. I think I posted here with questions. I was thinking about spraying down the tank with some melafix(diluted of course) since it's an antifungal and claims to not hurt plants. Another idea was rubbing the affected areas(cork bark and branches) with a 2% bleach solution. There are no animals currently living in the set up. Any thoughts? Thanks, Kate No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1478 - Release Date: 6/2/2008 7:12 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28155	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?

Messing around with your pH is dangerous, especially if you are lowering it. What you need to do is like Lenny mentioned, however, you not that your pH kit stops at 7.6 which means you'll need to get a high range pH kit to get an actual measurement of the pH out of the tap. Measure the water's pH from a sample right after it comes out of the tap. Retain the remainder of the sample for 24 hours, then measure the pH again. Note if it drops and by how much it drops. That will be the natural pH of your water. This is the pH level you would want to maintain in your tank Now, here comes the hard part to understand, mainly because of the use and misuse of a term. That term is alkalinity. Alkalinity is not a term to be used when referring to pH. It is misused when you refer to a high pH level as being alkaline. It really is more base. Alkalinity is a measurement of the buffering capacity of the water, which is often related to the hardness of the water, but not always. (This stuff is fun, isn't it?) Each body of water has a certain capacity to maintain its pH. When you add chemicals to try to bring down the pH, you are actually neutralizing part of this buffering capacity of the water. The problem is that if you add enough buffer neutralizing chemical, you can "break" the buffer, which will, in turn result in a catastrophic fall in pH value, one in which many fish will not survive, either from the rapid decline or the inability of the fish to carry out its bodily functions in such an environment. You will not know, until it is too late, how much it will take to break the buffer. Plus, this is a lot of work for you, since you will need to keep a close eye on the pH as the buffer tries to hold itself and the pH against the lowering agent. As water seeks its own level, it also seeks to maintain itself. The question is whether the fish, which you do not mention, can live in your water as it is. I know the books mention a certain pH range for many fish, and, frankly, much of that is wrong. Some rams, South American cichlids, are often found in water approach 3.0 on the pH scale, yet, you will not find a book commonly available that mentions this fact. Looking around a bit, the lowest recommendation I see for this fish is 5.0. While I have no experience, I am sure that the reverse is also true. This just goes to show that if you are merely keeping fish, they will tolerate a much wider pH range than is suggested in commonly available literature. If you want to more than keep fish, well, you will need to provide the proper conditions for growth and maturing the fish so they can be bred. (Maybe shelties are less trouble Gregg <g>. We now have 2 BC's in house here.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH change units? I asked around the local aquarium shop over the weekend because the pH in my freshwater setup drives me nuts after each partial water change. The water here (Eastern Panhandle of WV) is incredibly alkaline. I use our town water after purging the pipes of softened water for 24 hours. I have an RO unit that I use for topping off water losses, but it only provides a few gallons per hour. I try to keep my setup at around 7.0 - 7.2, but my pH kit shows my tank's pH as at least 7.4 - 7.6 after a 25% water change. Actually, it looks as if it's off the top of the pH color chart I use... It takes me the better part of a week to bring it down, because I get a pH block that takes a lot of acid to break through. It's gotten to the point that I have to use half a dozen pH Down treatments just to get the pH to move. This can't be good for my fish...I've gone to partial water changes every other week to try to minimize the pH changes. The local shop owner told me that there are units that hook to the local water source that provide pH neutral water. He specifically said that it's NOT an RO unit. Exactly what are these units called and who makes them? Do these units work as advertised? At the rate I buy pH Down and similar products, I could easily pay for one. Any ideas, suggestions are welcome... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28156	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

The sponge for washing dishes may not be suitable. It may not be closed-cell sponge and it may have some mildewcide added into the sponge during manufacturing. The sponge that came with the filter, that you can see through the holes is called open-cell sponge so the water can flow through it. It's more for catching big stuff and for having plenty of surface area for your N-bacteria. I would simply add the floss pads or poly-fill into the carbon section as the second layer of mechanical/biological filtration. When cleaning, you can clean the floss/poly good but only rinse/squeeze the sponge in some removed tank water to clean it while keeping the majority of the N-bacteria alive in the sponge. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi , I noticed that the sponge inside the new filter has really big holes. you can see the light through them. I was wondering if I can replace it with two 'twin' pieces of sponge with smaller holes, I bought a cube of "washing-dishes" sponge, colored.. can it work? Any advise? BTW, the filter contains a sealed carbon container, which I'm planning to open and empty a couple of weeks later, what do you suggest to put instead of the activated carbon: ciramic, plyster, floss pads, keep empty.. etc?? Thanks, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter There's a hole inside the new filter's sponge, I can fit a piece of plyster from the old filter (about 1/4 of the whole plyster. Hope it will work. Thanks Lenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi Noura, First I want to address your comment about not running both filters at the same time. This is not a good thing to do. When you turn off a filter, water quits flowing over/through the filter media and the good N-bacteria start to die off due to lack of O2 and food. This happens after only an hour or two so unless you are alternating the filters every hour, you aren't helping things by turning them off. Now on to your new filter. Can you take the filter media from the old filter and fit it into the new filter? If yes, then do that and run the new filter so the water flows over the old filter media first, then through the new filter media. After a couple of weeks, you can keep both filter media in the new filter but alternate cleaning them so one of them stays fully cycled at all times. This will also give you extra filter media to use in the event you ever need to set up a new tank, you could remove the extra "cycled" filter media and run it in the new tank filter so you will have a big head start on getting that tank fully cycled. With a UGF, a lot of the N-bacteria live on the surface areas of all of the gravel so changing the filter media does not affect the cycle as much with a UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1478 - Release Date: 6/2/2008 7:12 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28157	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

Not at all, they are the simplest cheapest washing sponges you can imagine, I know I wouldn't use them to clean my dishes! (20 cents for 1 sponge). So the additions are no problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:05 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Noura, I would not use sponges designed for washing dishes. Many of these sponges come with detergents or anti- mildew agents that may be deadly to your fish. -Mike In a message dated 6/2/2008 5:53:28 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n-taweel@... writes: Hi , I noticed that the sponge inside the new filter has really big holes. you can see the light through them. I was wondering if I can replace it with two 'twin' pieces of sponge with smaller holes, I bought a cube of "washing-dishes" sponge, colored.. can it work? Any advise? BTW, the filter contains a sealed carbon container, which I'm planning to open and empty a couple of weeks later, what do you suggest to put instead of the activated carbon: ciramic, plyster, floss pads, keep empty.. etc?? Thanks, Noura **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28158	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

As I told Mike, the sponge is cheap and simple, doesn't even have a brand on it. But I just cut it into a 3/4 inch piece and sucked through it, the air passed but not very easily, plus, it smelled funny, so I'm thinking that it may actually contain the chemicals you both mentioned. Will do the polyster filling into the carbon container. I'll use a piece from my old filter "which is still running in the tank along with the new once since 2 days", to give the cycling thing a kick. As for running UGF and internal filter togeather, I tried it yesterday, and it was bothering to the fish, and the plants were also "dancing", it didn't seem good for them, a few stems were even pulled out of the gravel. that didn't happen when I runned only one filter each time. ( I usually run the UGF twice aday, about 1-2 hours each time, but sometimes get too busy to remember switching the two filters). Do you think I should simply shut the UGF down forever, or do I really need it in my overstocked tank? Thanks for the advise guys Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:33 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter The sponge for washing dishes may not be suitable. It may not be closed-cell sponge and it may have some mildewcide added into the sponge during manufacturing. The sponge that came with the filter, that you can see through the holes is called open-cell sponge so the water can flow through it. It's more for catching big stuff and for having plenty of surface area for your N-bacteria. I would simply add the floss pads or poly-fill into the carbon section as the second layer of mechanical/biological filtration. When cleaning, you can clean the floss/poly good but only rinse/squeeze the sponge in some removed tank water to clean it while keeping the majority of the N-bacteria alive in the sponge. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi , I noticed that the sponge inside the new filter has really big holes. you can see the light through them. I was wondering if I can replace it with two 'twin' pieces of sponge with smaller holes, I bought a cube of "washing-dishes" sponge, colored.. can it work? Any advise? BTW, the filter contains a sealed carbon container, which I'm planning to open and empty a couple of weeks later, what do you suggest to put instead of the activated carbon: ciramic, plyster, floss pads, keep empty.. etc?? Thanks, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter There's a hole inside the new filter's sponge, I can fit a piece of plyster from the old filter (about 1/4 of the whole plyster. Hope it will work. Thanks Lenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi Noura, First I want to address your comment about not running both filters at the same time. This is not a good thing to do. When you turn off a filter, water quits flowing over/through the filter media and the good N-bacteria start to die off due to lack of O2 and food. This happens after only an hour or two so unless you are alternating the filters every hour, you aren't helping things by turning them off. Now on to your new filter. Can you take the filter media from the old filter and fit it into the new filter? If yes, then do that and run the new filter so the water flows over the old filter media first, then through the new filter media. After a couple of weeks, you can keep both filter media in the new filter but alternate cleaning them so one of them stays fully cycled at all times. This will also give you extra filter media to use in the event you ever need to set up a new tank, you could remove the extra "cycled" filter media and run it in the new tank filter so you will have a big head start on getting that tank fully cycled. With a UGF, a lot of the N-bacteria live on the surface areas of all of the gravel so changing the filter media does not affect the cycle as much with a UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1478 - Release Date: 6/2/2008 7:12 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28159	From: Blue fish	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40405E57454D425A445146445A515F4E ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40405E57454D425A445146445A515F4E Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C40405E57454D425A445146445A515F4A Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28160	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

Thank you. The wood is manzanita branch. Kate --- On Mon, 6/2/08, Maxmillionmaxcat@... <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> wrote: From: Maxmillionmaxcat@... <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 2, 2008, 5:30 PM That is a beautiful tank - what is the twisty- bamboo - woody type stuff in the center? In a message dated 6/2/2008 12:22:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, k8hardy@yahoo. com writes: I'm hooked on planted tanks. This is my latest. http://a557. ac-images. myspacecdn. com/images01/ 44/l_a743afeeecb f1f649cbc2985646 d9964.jpg It's a little more filled in now. I love working with freshwater shrimp too. I started another tank for Sparkling Gourami's recently as well. I love the subtle colors and the way the light brings them out. Kate ************ **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food. aol.com/tyler- florence? video=4?& NCID=aolfod00030 000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28161	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Mold/Melafix

Weird. On the bottles, pemafix says antibacterial and melafix says antifungal. I have them both. The tank is about 1 year old but it's new to being a paludarium. I ripped the substrate out and did water instead when I was getting mold and thought the substrate might be the culprit. HP huh? I've used it to get rid of algae, although it just killed my HC and not the algae. I'll give it a try. --- On Mon, 6/2/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mold/Melafix > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, June 2, 2008, 8:13 PM > Pimafix is the antifungal. Melafix is an antibacterial > product. > > If the tank is new, the mold is not uncommon and will > eventually die off as > the ecology of the tank establishes itself. I've seen > this in the past when > adding a piece of driftwood to a new tank and you can find > countless > postings in forums about this. > > If you don't have Pimafix, you could try... and I'd > try this first... using > a turkey baster and squirting non-diluted Hydrogen Peroxide > on the mold. > The "normal" HP that you buy at a drug store is > usually 3% and I've used > this on hair algae with no problems at doses of 1 oz. per > 10G in a tank with > fish. HP is H2O2 so it's chemically very similar to > water H2O. HP simply > has an extra Oxygen molecule so it has an oxidizing effect > on things. Once > it oxidizes (bubbles), that is the extra Oxygen molecule > leaving which > basically leaves distilled water as a byproduct. Here are > some > threads/articles on using HP on various types of algae and > there may be some > mention about using it on mold also. > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hair-algae.html > > I wouldn't use bleach.. even in a very diluted solution > as it would take an > awful lot of dechlor to stabilize the chlorine released in > using bleach. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kate > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mold/Melafix > > Hey everyone, > I've been battling with a mold issue in my paludarium > for a while. I think I > posted here with questions. I was thinking about spraying > down the tank with > some melafix(diluted of course) since it's an > antifungal and claims to not > hurt plants. Another idea was rubbing the affected > areas(cork bark and > branches) with a 2% bleach solution. There are no animals > currently living > in the set up. Any thoughts? > Thanks, > Kate > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1478 - Release > Date: 6/2/2008 > 7:12 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> > ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. > , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28162	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

I'm glad you tested the sponge first. I figured it wasn't the proper type of sponge for use in aquariums. In another forum, a member said they go to their local crafts store, JoAnn's, which you likely do not have in your area, but they said they can buy the off-white colored (natural) open-cell foam in squares that are sold for use in re-padding a chair. They say they can easily breath through this foam and have used it in their aquariums without problems. It's a very small pore open-cell foam and is very inexpensive also compared to the specialized foam we can buy from various online fish stores. Since your tank is overstocked, it would be best to over-filter the tank also... along with doing the more frequent PWC's as I believe you are already doing. Only running the UGF once or twice a day isn't really helping with the biological filtration in your tank... which is something you definitely need in an overstocked tank. Further, the added agitation creates better surface agitation for proper gas exchange to keep the O2 levels up and allow for CO2 and other bad gas exchange at the surface. Since you say you are getting too much agitation when the two filters are running, try making sure the tank is filled up as much as possible. Next, try changing the direction of the discharge of your filters so they do not impact your plants as much. You could also have the discharge hitting a solid decoration first to spread out the discharge stream. The fish should be able to handle the water movement without much problem. I run 10X filtration on my fancy goldfish tank... two large filter systems moving a total of 650 gallons per hour and my fancy goldfish can handle that so I'm sure your fish can handle 10X filtration as well. Do you have a power head running the UGF filter? If so, you could add a piece of filter floss or open cell foam over the discharge of the power head and use a nylon tie to hold it on. This way, the discharge from the power head will not be such a strong spray in one direction and would be less of an impact also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter As I told Mike, the sponge is cheap and simple, doesn't even have a brand on it. But I just cut it into a 3/4 inch piece and sucked through it, the air passed but not very easily, plus, it smelled funny, so I'm thinking that it may actually contain the chemicals you both mentioned. Will do the polyster filling into the carbon container. I'll use a piece from my old filter "which is still running in the tank along with the new once since 2 days", to give the cycling thing a kick. As for running UGF and internal filter togeather, I tried it yesterday, and it was bothering to the fish, and the plants were also "dancing", it didn't seem good for them, a few stems were even pulled out of the gravel. that didn't happen when I runned only one filter each time. ( I usually run the UGF twice aday, about 1-2 hours each time, but sometimes get too busy to remember switching the two filters). Do you think I should simply shut the UGF down forever, or do I really need it in my overstocked tank? Thanks for the advise guys Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:33 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter The sponge for washing dishes may not be suitable. It may be closed-cell sponge and it may have some mildewcide added into the sponge during manufacturing. The sponge that came with the filter, that you can see through the holes is called open-cell sponge so the water can flow through it. It's more for catching big stuff and for having plenty of surface area for your N-bacteria. I would simply add the floss pads or poly-fill into the carbon section as the second layer of mechanical/biological filtration. When cleaning, you can clean the floss/poly good but only rinse/squeeze the sponge in some removed tank water to clean it while keeping the majority of the N-bacteria alive in the sponge. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi , I noticed that the sponge inside the new filter has really big holes. you can see the light through them. I was wondering if I can replace it with two 'twin' pieces of sponge with smaller holes, I bought a cube of "washing-dishes" sponge, colored.. can it work? Any advise? BTW, the filter contains a sealed carbon container, which I'm planning to open and empty a couple of weeks later, what do you suggest to put instead of the activated carbon: ciramic, plyster, floss pads, keep empty.. etc?? Thanks, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter There's a hole inside the new filter's sponge, I can fit a piece of plyster from the old filter (about 1/4 of the whole plyster. Hope it will work. Thanks Lenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi Noura, First I want to address your comment about not running both filters at the same time. This is not a good thing to do. When you turn off a filter, water quits flowing over/through the filter media and the good N-bacteria start to die off due to lack of O2 and food. This happens after only an hour or two so unless you are alternating the filters every hour, you aren't helping things by turning them off. Now on to your new filter. Can you take the filter media from the old filter and fit it into the new filter? If yes, then do that and run the new filter so the water flows over the old filter media first, then through the new filter media. After a couple of weeks, you can keep both filter media in the new filter but alternate cleaning them so one of them stays fully cycled at all times. This will also give you extra filter media to use in the event you ever need to set up a new tank, you could remove the extra "cycled" filter media and run it in the new tank filter so you will have a big head start on getting that tank fully cycled. With a UGF, a lot of the N-bacteria live on the surface areas of all of the gravel so changing the filter media does not affect the cycle as much with a UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28163	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

I think that is what Manzanita means in native tongue... twisty-bamboo-woody stuff. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes Thank you. The wood is manzanita branch. Kate --- On Mon, 6/2/08, Maxmillionmaxcat@... <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> <Maxmillionmaxcat@... <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> > wrote: From: Maxmillionmaxcat@... <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> <Maxmillionmaxcat@... <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, June 2, 2008, 5:30 PM That is a beautiful tank - what is the twisty- bamboo - woody type stuff in the center? In a message dated 6/2/2008 12:22:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, k8hardy@yahoo. com writes: I'm hooked on planted tanks. This is my latest. http://a557. ac-images. myspacecdn. com/images01/ 44/l_a743afeeecb f1f649cbc2985646 d9964.jpg It's a little more filled in now. I love working with freshwater shrimp too. I started another tank for Sparkling Gourami's recently as well. I love the subtle colors and the way the light brings them out. Kate ************ **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food. aol.com/tyler- florence? video=4?& NCID=aolfod00030 000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28164	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Mold/Melafix

Are you sure? I'm looking at both of mine as I type this and under the word Pimafix, it says "Antifungal Fish Remedy" and under the word Melafix, it says "Antibacterial Fish Remedy". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mold/Melafix Weird. On the bottles, pemafix says antibacterial and melafix says antifungal. I have them both. The tank is about 1 year old but it's new to being a paludarium. I ripped the substrate out and did water instead when I was getting mold and thought the substrate might be the culprit. HP huh? I've used it to get rid of algae, although it just killed my HC and not the algae. I'll give it a try. --- On Mon, 6/2/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mold/Melafix > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, June 2, 2008, 8:13 PM > Pimafix is the antifungal. Melafix is an antibacterial product. > > If the tank is new, the mold is not uncommon and will eventually die > off as the ecology of the tank establishes itself. I've seen this in > the past when adding a piece of driftwood to a new tank and you can > find countless postings in forums about this. > > If you don't have Pimafix, you could try... and I'd try this first... > using a turkey baster and squirting non-diluted Hydrogen Peroxide on > the mold. > The "normal" HP that you buy at a drug store is usually 3% and I've > used this on hair algae with no problems at doses of 1 oz. per 10G in > a tank with fish. HP is H2O2 so it's chemically very similar to water > H2O. HP simply has an extra Oxygen molecule so it has an oxidizing > effect on things. Once it oxidizes (bubbles), that is the extra Oxygen > molecule leaving which basically leaves distilled water as a > byproduct. Here are some threads/articles on using HP on various types > of algae and there may be some mention about using it on mold also. > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hair-algae.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hair-algae.html> > > I wouldn't use bleach.. even in a very diluted solution as it would > take an awful lot of dechlor to stabilize the chlorine released in > using bleach. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kate > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mold/Melafix > > Hey everyone, > I've been battling with a mold issue in my paludarium for a while. I > think I posted here with questions. I was thinking about spraying down > the tank with some melafix(diluted of course) since it's an antifungal > and claims to not hurt plants. Another idea was rubbing the affected > areas(cork bark and > branches) with a 2% bleach solution. There are no animals currently > living in the set up. Any thoughts? > Thanks, > Kate > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1478 - Release > Date: 6/2/2008 > 7:12 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> > ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. > , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28165	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

Noura, The object of running the UGF is to harmlessly break down the fish waste and any uneaten foods that may have accumulated in the gravel by having a constant flow of oxygenated water running by the beneficial bacteria in the substrate. These aerobic bacteria need oxygenated water at all times. Without a continuous flow of water past them they die. The running of your UGF twice a day for 1 - 2 hours each time is not enough to keep them alive and functioning to do their job of breaking down this waste. At the present time, you are not accomplishing anything at all by running your UGF in this manner. I might warn you that dangerous anaerobic bacteria may take hold within your substrate, but with oxygenated water running by them off and on, I doubt even they would survive -- which is fortunate in this case. You will have to decide whether to run your UGF continously or turn it off altogether. If you do decide to turn it off, do some deep cleaning of the gravel to pull out any debris that may have been drawn into it, lest anaerobic bacteria will start populating this area. These bacteria give off noxious gases and may institute denitrification, both processes toxic to your fish. Since, as you admit, you have an overstocked tank -- I would recommend running your UGF continuously, with fair-sized weekly PWC's to prevent a build up of nitrates with the resultant overwhelming of your buffering capacity and a serious drop in your pH. I do not understand, and fail to see, how/why your plants would pull out of the gravel when you are using both filters. It just doesn't make much sense to me at all. Are you running your UGF in reverse? An internal filter is completely independent of the UGF of course, including both of their flows -- unless those flows are in concert, with the UGF water coming up through the substrate from the very bottom, underneath the UGF plates. If this is your problem, operate your UGF in the normal mode by having the water drawn down through the substrate rather than up through it. Just a friendly reminder again though, with your overstocked tank, you are on borrowed time for something to go wrong with the state of your livestock. You may be keeping just ahaed of the game right now, but the odds are it will catch up with you sooner or later. You're playing a dangerous game, and may expect either a partial mortality of your fish at some point (at the most fortunate) or a total wipeout if you don't re-home some of those fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Will do the polyster filling into the carbon container. I'll use a piece > from my old filter "which is still running in the tank along with the new > once since 2 days", to give the cycling thing a kick. > > As for running UGF and internal filter togeather, I tried it yesterday, and > it was bothering to the fish, and the plants were also "dancing", it didn't > seem good for them, a few stems were even pulled out of the gravel. that > didn't happen when I runned only one filter each time. ( I usually run the > UGF twice aday, about 1-2 hours each time, but sometimes get too busy to > remember switching the two filters). Do you think I should simply shut the > UGF down forever, or do I really need it in my overstocked tank? > > Thanks for the advise guys > > Noura > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:33 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter > > > The sponge for washing dishes may not be suitable. It may not be > closed-cell sponge and it may have some mildewcide added into the sponge > during manufacturing. > > The sponge that came with the filter, that you can see through the holes is > called open-cell sponge so the water can flow through it. It's more for > catching big stuff and for having plenty of surface area for your > N-bacteria. > > I would simply add the floss pads or poly-fill into the carbon section as > the second layer of mechanical/biological filtration. When cleaning, you > can clean the floss/poly good but only rinse/squeeze the sponge in some > removed tank water to clean it while keeping the majority of the N- bacteria > alive in the sponge. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter > > Hi , > I noticed that the sponge inside the new filter has really big holes. you > can see the light through them. I was wondering if I can replace it with > two 'twin' pieces of sponge with smaller holes, I bought a cube of > "washing-dishes" sponge, colored.. can it work? Any advise? > BTW, the filter contains a sealed carbon container, which I'm planning to > open and empty a couple of weeks later, what do you suggest to put instead > of the activated carbon: ciramic, plyster, floss pads, keep empty.. etc?? > > Thanks, > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter > > > There's a hole inside the new filter's sponge, I can fit a piece of plyster > from the old filter (about 1/4 of the whole plyster. Hope it will work. > Thanks Lenny > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:41 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter > > > Hi Noura, > > First I want to address your comment about not running both filters at the > same time. This is not a good thing to do. When you turn off a filter, > water quits flowing over/through the filter media and the good N- bacteria > start to die off due to lack of O2 and food. This happens after only an > hour or two so unless you are alternating the filters every hour, you aren't > helping things by turning them off. > > Now on to your new filter. Can you take the filter media from the old > filter and fit it into the new filter? If yes, then do that and run the new > filter so the water flows over the old filter media first, then through the > new filter media. After a couple of weeks, you can keep both filter media > in the new filter but alternate cleaning them so one of them stays fully > cycled at all times. This will also give you extra filter media to use in > the event you ever need to set up a new tank, you could remove the extra > "cycled" filter media and run it in the new tank filter so you will have a > big head start on getting that tank fully cycled. > > With a UGF, a lot of the N-bacteria live on the surface areas of all of the > gravel so changing the filter media does not affect the cycle as much with a > UGF. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1478 - Release Date: 6/2/2008 > 7:12 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28166	From: ED	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

BEAUTIFUL! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> wrote: > > I'm hooked on planted tanks. This is my latest. > > http://a557.ac- images.myspacecdn.com/images01/44/l_a743afeeecbf1f649cbc2985646d9964.j pg > It's a little more filled in now. I love working with freshwater shrimp too. I started another tank for Sparkling Gourami's recently as well. I love the subtle colors and the way the light brings them out. > Kate > > --- On Sun, 6/1/08, Deenerz@... Deenerz@... wrote: > From: Deenerz@... Deenerz@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 1, 2008, 4:40 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Bah Humbug :) > > > > I keep Rift Lake Cichlids as well as other fish and they are gorgeous. > > > > I also used to believe that only salt water fish were pretty until I wandered into the Cichlid area of the local fish stores. I walked away from the idea of a saltwater tank and now have over 25 freshwater tanks. > > I have been looking at Rainbow fish lately and bought a couple different ones and love watching them as well as my cichlids. > > > > A well done planted tank with fish is stunningingly beautiful in its own right. I am still working on setting up a nice planted tank. > > > > -Mike > > > > I am researching the possibility of setting up a marine tank, having kept > > several tropical tanks for over 15 years. My local stockist refers to the > > cold-water and tropical fish sections of his shop as black and white and the > > marine section as colour and its easy to see why but there are beautiful > > cold-water and tropical fish that are relatively inexpensive and easy to > > keep. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steve <stephen.abson@ sky.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:37 pm > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes > > > > Hi guys > > > > I've been lurking for a couple of weeks so hope you are all well. > > > > Not sure if there are any other members from the UK in the group so I > > apologise if I use different terms as we tend to use the metric system for > > volume and temperature etc. > > > > To add to the nano cube debate it is evident from the recent aquaria shows > > around the world this year that small is once again beautiful. Technology > > for setting up, supporting and maintaining a small tank has progressed > > considerably in recent years. Although a smaller aquarium will generally > > cost less than a larger one as running costs should be lower, a small volume > > of water is much harder to maintain even for an experienced aquarist. > > > > Fundamentally I consider any decision to keep fish and other aquatic life, > > be it in cold-water, tropical or marine set-ups should be based on the > > desire to create the best possible living environment for the occupants. In > > order to do so requires both time and money. > > > > I am researching the possibility of setting up a marine tank, having kept > > several tropical tanks for over 15 years. My local stockist refers to the > > cold-water and tropical fish sections of his shop as black and white and the > > marine section as colour and its easy to see why but there are beautiful > > cold-water and tropical fish that are relatively inexpensive and easy to > > keep. > > > > To follow the advice of those who have posted before if you have the time > > and money to set up a marine tank and are prepared to learn then the very > > best of luck, inevitably there will be mistakes. Every fishkeeper > > experiences problems, some are of their own making and other things just > > happen. Knowing what to do, who to call or email, when things go wrong is > > all part of the learning. > > > > Regards > > > > Steve > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen > > Sent: 01 June 2008 18:15 > > To: Aquaria 2 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes > > > > > Learning all you can and trying it,failing perhaps but trying again. > > > Tis how you gain experience. > > I might be out of line here, but failing means death to the animals > > involved, and not a pleasant one. It's also why many people leave the hobby > > because they set themselves up for failure. Salt water fish keeping is > > expensive and not easy to do correctly. > > Dana Rasmussen > > Seattle > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28167	From: Erik Hammarstrom	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Starting new aquarium - Question on filter

I am new to this hobby. I have 10 gallon tank, with a 5-15 Aqua-Tech Powe filter. I was wondering if they sold a extension tube to extend the intake deeper into the tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28168	From: ED	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Which tetras to get?

One of the least aggresive I've found is the Skirted Serpia Tetra's They are doing well with Platties , Neons and cory's. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My tank numbers have finally straightend out due to neglecting it alittle, I guess that's what it needed. With ammonia and nitrites near 0 my nitrates are only 5.0, so I guess the tank is ready for more fish. > > I want to get tetras that are best for my skill level, my 10 gallon size tank and my natural color scheme. I really like black phantom tetras but found contradictory information on how hardy they are. Ph of my tank was running around 7.6 but it seems to have gone up as the nitrites went down; now I'd say it's around 7.9. > > Here's my list of what I'm considering - and I need feedback by around 10 AM as that's wehn I'm planning to go get them. > > I have three little zebra danios in the tank. > > black phantom tetra > blood fin tetra (a little large) > pristella > gold tetra > flame tettra > griem's tetra > glo-light tetra > head and tail light tetra > red-eyed tetra > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28169	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Starting new aquarium - Question on filter

Hi Erik, If I recall correctly the Aqua-Tech is a "Walmart" filter based on a Marineland filter(Correct me if I am wrong). If you take the intake tube with you to a pet store, hopefully a fish store is near you, you should be able to find an extension. If that is not an option or they do not have one you can order one online. http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCatalog/ctl3684/cp18677/si1382239/cl1/marineland_penguin_1_extension_tube_with_coupling?&path=c3684-def-USD-16695%23%23-1%23%23-1%7E%7Eq6d6172696e656c616e64%7E%7Ec3684-def-USD-18645%23%23a%23%234e%7E%7Enc3684-def-USD-18677%23%230%23%231u&query=marineland&offset=20 If the above link does not work, it is from BigAlsOnline.com $2.99 plus shipping, comes with the adpater to connect the new tube with your current tube. Or as I like to do go buy a piece of tubing that will fit the tube you have. Fish shops and some pet stores will carry clear plastic tubing for use in aquariums. They start as small as an airline to sometimes and inch or more. If they sell these see if one of them will fit over or inside your intake tube. If it does it may not fit the strainer part or the filter. If this is the case you can cut your intake tube in half, and then add a piece the desired length in the middle. If it is not quite snug you can use teflon tape http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&q=teflon+tape%c2%a0to make a snug fit. People use teflon tape for sponge filter parts that do not remain tight and tend to seperate.   -Mike I am new to this hobby. I have 10 gallon tank, with a 5-15 Aqua-Tech Powe filter. I was wondering if they sold a extension tube to extend the intake deeper into the tank. -----Original Message----- From: Erik Hammarstrom <EHammarstrom@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:23 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Starting new aquarium - Question on filter I am new to this hobby. I have 10 gallon tank, with a 5-15 Aqua-Tech Powe filter. I was wondering if they sold a extension tube to extend the intake deeper into the tank. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28170	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

Yes I do have a power head running the UGF, and it's powerful compared to the tank's size, it's 1500 L/H (the tank is 80 L). I have a problem in finding suitable sponges for the internal filter, but I'll put a piece of plyster in the carbon cartridge after one month, when the carbon will no loner be active. I don't know what the filter floss is, is it the polyster (glass cotton)? can I put polyster on the discharge of the UGF power head instead? I tried several options of discharge directions for both filters the most suitable one was making them both heading fowrward, but it's still too strong current. I'm sure that your idea about covering the UGF discharge will make currents nicer for the plants. BTW, how many hours do you think I should run the filters? i usually turn them both off at night (about 10 hours). Thanks, again, for your patience. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter I'm glad you tested the sponge first. I figured it wasn't the proper type of sponge for use in aquariums. In another forum, a member said they go to their local crafts store, JoAnn's, which you likely do not have in your area, but they said they can buy the off-white colored (natural) open-cell foam in squares that are sold for use in re-padding a chair. They say they can easily breath through this foam and have used it in their aquariums without problems. It's a very small pore open-cell foam and is very inexpensive also compared to the specialized foam we can buy from various online fish stores. Since your tank is overstocked, it would be best to over-filter the tank also... along with doing the more frequent PWC's as I believe you are already doing. Only running the UGF once or twice a day isn't really helping with the biological filtration in your tank... which is something you definitely need in an overstocked tank. Further, the added agitation creates better surface agitation for proper gas exchange to keep the O2 levels up and allow for CO2 and other bad gas exchange at the surface. Since you say you are getting too much agitation when the two filters are running, try making sure the tank is filled up as much as possible. Next, try changing the direction of the discharge of your filters so they do not impact your plants as much. You could also have the discharge hitting a solid decoration first to spread out the discharge stream. The fish should be able to handle the water movement without much problem. I run 10X filtration on my fancy goldfish tank... two large filter systems moving a total of 650 gallons per hour and my fancy goldfish can handle that so I'm sure your fish can handle 10X filtration as well. Do you have a power head running the UGF filter? If so, you could add a piece of filter floss or open cell foam over the discharge of the power head and use a nylon tie to hold it on. This way, the discharge from the power head will not be such a strong spray in one direction and would be less of an impact also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter As I told Mike, the sponge is cheap and simple, doesn't even have a brand on it. But I just cut it into a 3/4 inch piece and sucked through it, the air passed but not very easily, plus, it smelled funny, so I'm thinking that it may actually contain the chemicals you both mentioned. Will do the polyster filling into the carbon container. I'll use a piece from my old filter "which is still running in the tank along with the new once since 2 days", to give the cycling thing a kick. As for running UGF and internal filter togeather, I tried it yesterday, and it was bothering to the fish, and the plants were also "dancing", it didn't seem good for them, a few stems were even pulled out of the gravel. that didn't happen when I runned only one filter each time. ( I usually run the UGF twice aday, about 1-2 hours each time, but sometimes get too busy to remember switching the two filters). Do you think I should simply shut the UGF down forever, or do I really need it in my overstocked tank? Thanks for the advise guys Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:33 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter The sponge for washing dishes may not be suitable. It may be closed-cell sponge and it may have some mildewcide added into the sponge during manufacturing. The sponge that came with the filter, that you can see through the holes is called open-cell sponge so the water can flow through it. It's more for catching big stuff and for having plenty of surface area for your N-bacteria. I would simply add the floss pads or poly-fill into the carbon section as the second layer of mechanical/biological filtration. When cleaning, you can clean the floss/poly good but only rinse/squeeze the sponge in some removed tank water to clean it while keeping the majority of the N-bacteria alive in the sponge. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi , I noticed that the sponge inside the new filter has really big holes. you can see the light through them. I was wondering if I can replace it with two 'twin' pieces of sponge with smaller holes, I bought a cube of "washing-dishes" sponge, colored.. can it work? Any advise? BTW, the filter contains a sealed carbon container, which I'm planning to open and empty a couple of weeks later, what do you suggest to put instead of the activated carbon: ciramic, plyster, floss pads, keep empty.. etc?? Thanks, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter There's a hole inside the new filter's sponge, I can fit a piece of plyster from the old filter (about 1/4 of the whole plyster. Hope it will work. Thanks Lenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi Noura, First I want to address your comment about not running both filters at the same time. This is not a good thing to do. When you turn off a filter, water quits flowing over/through the filter media and the good N-bacteria start to die off due to lack of O2 and food. This happens after only an hour or two so unless you are alternating the filters every hour, you aren't helping things by turning them off. Now on to your new filter. Can you take the filter media from the old filter and fit it into the new filter? If yes, then do that and run the new filter so the water flows over the old filter media first, then through the new filter media. After a couple of weeks, you can keep both filter media in the new filter but alternate cleaning them so one of them stays fully cycled at all times. This will also give you extra filter media to use in the event you ever need to set up a new tank, you could remove the extra "cycled" filter media and run it in the new tank filter so you will have a big head start on getting that tank fully cycled. With a UGF, a lot of the N-bacteria live on the surface areas of all of the gravel so changing the filter media does not affect the cycle as much with a UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28171	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

Noura, Its obvious you have not read my descriptive reply (is my typing invisible lately? LOL). You CANNOT turn off your filters and expect the beneficial bacteria to survive!!! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Yes I do have a power head running the UGF, and it's powerful compared to > the tank's size, it's 1500 L/H (the tank is 80 L). > I have a problem in finding suitable sponges for the internal filter, but > I'll put a piece of plyster in the carbon cartridge after one month, when > the carbon will no loner be active. > > I don't know what the filter floss is, is it the polyster (glass cotton)? > can I put polyster on the discharge of the UGF power head instead? > I tried several options of discharge directions for both filters the most > suitable one was making them both heading fowrward, but it's still too > strong current. I'm sure that your idea about covering the UGF discharge > will make currents nicer for the plants. > > BTW, how many hours do you think I should run the filters? i usually turn > them both off at night (about 10 hours). > > Thanks, again, for your patience. > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:30 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter > > > I'm glad you tested the sponge first. I figured it wasn't the proper type > of sponge for use in aquariums. In another forum, a member said they go to > their local crafts store, JoAnn's, which you likely do not have in your > area, but they said they can buy the off-white colored (natural) open-cell > foam in squares that are sold for use in re-padding a chair. They say they > can easily breath through this foam and have used it in their aquariums > without problems. It's a very small pore open-cell foam and is very > inexpensive also compared to the specialized foam we can buy from various > online fish stores. > > Since your tank is overstocked, it would be best to over-filter the tank > also... along with doing the more frequent PWC's as I believe you are > already doing. Only running the UGF once or twice a day isn't really > helping with the biological filtration in your tank... which is something > you definitely need in an overstocked tank. Further, the added agitation > creates better surface agitation for proper gas exchange to keep the O2 > levels up and allow for CO2 and other bad gas exchange at the surface. > Since you say you are getting too much agitation when the two filters are > running, try making sure the tank is filled up as much as possible. Next, > try changing the direction of the discharge of your filters so they do not > impact your plants as much. You could also have the discharge hitting a > solid decoration first to spread out the discharge stream. The fish should > be able to handle the water movement without much problem. > > I run 10X filtration on my fancy goldfish tank... two large filter systems > moving a total of 650 gallons per hour and my fancy goldfish can handle that > so I'm sure your fish can handle 10X filtration as well. > > Do you have a power head running the UGF filter? > > If so, you could add a piece of filter floss or open cell foam over the > discharge of the power head and use a nylon tie to hold it on. This way, > the discharge from the power head will not be such a strong spray in one > direction and would be less of an impact also. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter > > > As I told Mike, the sponge is cheap and simple, doesn't even have a brand on > it. But I just cut it into a 3/4 inch piece and sucked through it, the air > passed but not very easily, plus, it smelled funny, so I'm thinking that it > may actually contain the chemicals you both mentioned. > > Will do the polyster filling into the carbon container. I'll use a piece > from my old filter "which is still running in the tank along with the new > once since 2 days", to give the cycling thing a kick. > > As for running UGF and internal filter togeather, I tried it yesterday, and > it was bothering to the fish, and the plants were also "dancing", it didn't > seem good for them, a few stems were even pulled out of the gravel. that > didn't happen when I runned only one filter each time. ( I usually run the > UGF twice aday, about 1-2 hours each time, but sometimes get too busy to > remember switching the two filters). Do you think I should simply shut the > UGF down forever, or do I really need it in my overstocked tank? > > Thanks for the advise guys > > Noura > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:33 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter > > > The sponge for washing dishes may not be suitable. It may be > closed-cell sponge and it may have some mildewcide added into the sponge > during manufacturing. > > The sponge that came with the filter, that you can see through the holes is > called open-cell sponge so the water can flow through it. It's more for > catching big stuff and for having plenty of surface area for your > N-bacteria. > > I would simply add the floss pads or poly-fill into the carbon section as > the second layer of mechanical/biological filtration. When cleaning, you > can clean the floss/poly good but only rinse/squeeze the sponge in some > removed tank water to clean it while keeping the majority of the N- bacteria > alive in the sponge. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter > > Hi , > I noticed that the sponge inside the new filter has really big holes. you > can see the light through them. I was wondering if I can replace it with > two 'twin' pieces of sponge with smaller holes, I bought a cube of > "washing-dishes" sponge, colored.. can it work? Any advise? > BTW, the filter contains a sealed carbon container, which I'm planning to > open and empty a couple of weeks later, what do you suggest to put instead > of the activated carbon: ciramic, plyster, floss pads, keep empty.. etc?? > > Thanks, > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter > > > There's a hole inside the new filter's sponge, I can fit a piece of plyster > from the old filter (about 1/4 of the whole plyster. Hope it will work. > Thanks Lenny > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:41 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter > > > Hi Noura, > > First I want to address your comment about not running both filters at the > same time. This is not a good thing to do. When you turn off a filter, > water quits flowing over/through the filter media and the good N- bacteria > start to die off due to lack of O2 and food. This happens after only an > hour or two so unless you are alternating the filters every hour, you aren't > helping things by turning them off. > > Now on to your new filter. Can you take the filter media from the old > filter and fit it into the new filter? If yes, then do that and run the new > filter so the water flows over the old filter media first, then through the > new filter media. After a couple of weeks, you can keep both filter media > in the new filter but alternate cleaning them so one of them stays fully > cycled at all times. This will also give you extra filter media to use in > the event you ever need to set up a new tank, you could remove the extra > "cycled" filter media and run it in the new tank filter so you will have a > big head start on getting that tank fully cycled. > > With a UGF, a lot of the N-bacteria live on the surface areas of all of the > gravel so changing the filter media does not affect the cycle as much with a > UGF. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 > 7:00 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28172	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Mold/Melafix

Nevermind. Pemafix says antifungal. duh. I must have read the bottles wrong. I guess vertigo isn't the only symptom of jet lag. Kate --- On Tue, 6/3/08, Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> wrote: From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mold/Melafix To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 8:26 AM Weird. On the bottles, pemafix says antibacterial and melafix says antifungal. I have them both. The tank is about 1 year old but it's new to being a paludarium. I ripped the substrate out and did water instead when I was getting mold and thought the substrate might be the culprit. HP huh? I've used it to get rid of algae, although it just killed my HC and not the algae. I'll give it a try. --- On Mon, 6/2/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mold/Melafix > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Monday, June 2, 2008, 8:13 PM > Pimafix is the antifungal. Melafix is an antibacterial > product. > > If the tank is new, the mold is not uncommon and will > eventually die off as > the ecology of the tank establishes itself. I've seen > this in the past when > adding a piece of driftwood to a new tank and you can find > countless > postings in forums about this. > > If you don't have Pimafix, you could try... and I'd > try this first... using > a turkey baster and squirting non-diluted Hydrogen Peroxide > on the mold. > The "normal" HP that you buy at a drug store is > usually 3% and I've used > this on hair algae with no problems at doses of 1 oz. per > 10G in a tank with > fish. HP is H2O2 so it's chemically very similar to > water H2O. HP simply > has an extra Oxygen molecule so it has an oxidizing effect > on things. Once > it oxidizes (bubbles), that is the extra Oxygen molecule > leaving which > basically leaves distilled water as a byproduct. Here are > some > threads/articles on using HP on various types of algae and > there may be some > mention about using it on mold also. > > http://www.thekrib. com/Plants/ Algae/hydrogen- peroxide. html > > http://www.malawici chlidhomepage. com/aquainfo/ algae_peroxide. html > > http://www.thekrib. com/Plants/ Algae/hair- algae.html > > I wouldn't use bleach.. even in a very diluted solution > as it would take an > awful lot of dechlor to stabilize the chlorine released in > using bleach. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Kate > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mold/Melafix > > Hey everyone, > I've been battling with a mold issue in my paludarium > for a while. I think I > posted here with questions. I was thinking about spraying > down the tank with > some melafix(diluted of course) since it's an > antifungal and claims to not > hurt plants. Another idea was rubbing the affected > areas(cork bark and > branches) with a 2% bleach solution. There are no animals > currently living > in the set up. Any thoughts? > Thanks, > Kate > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1478 - Release > Date: 6/2/2008 > 7:12 AM > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> > ��.������`��.��. , .������`��..><((((��> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. > , .������`��..<��((((><������`��.����. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28173	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

Yeah Ray, right, I missed that valuable post, just found it 'unread of course' in my 'overstocked' inbox. * I'm still waiting for a reply about covering the discharge of the UGF head with polyster, this will solve the problem of pulling the stems off the gravel. And yes, they do get pulled off although my UGF is running in the normal mode (water is sucked up through the tube to the power head). The pulling off is the result of 'dancing' movements, you can't expect WEAK currents in a small tank with two power head filters running. You'll be really surprised to know the poor aquatic knowledge among fish store owners here. Not mentioning the lack of equipments, I can't find tank siphons, testing kits, live food, fry food (egg layer) , etc.. I got the advise of turning the filters off at night from a fish keeper who said that the fish need to rest at night. Plans are made to take away some of my fish, my first option is my home-bred guppies, and the pair of blue gouramis ( 3 " and 2 1/2" ) as they can grow fast and big, but they're about to lay eggs I think, the female's belly is rounded and the male is being very aggressive towards his tank mates, I just separated them in a smaller tank . I'll wait them to lay eggs then I'll take them back to the fish store, if I had the heart to do it! Don't give up hope on me, I may turn out to be a good fish keeper in the near future! Thanks for the advise(s) Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 2:35 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter Noura, Its obvious you have not read my descriptive reply (is my typing invisible lately? LOL). You CANNOT turn off your filters and expect the beneficial bacteria to survive!!! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28174	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Starting new aquarium - Question on filter

Not sure... but all you need to do is buy a piece of tubing from your LFS (Local Fish Store) or chain store and make your own extension. Just make sure the tubing is fish safe... or it should be labeled for "Potable Water" (drinking water). They make the tubing in various sizes so I'm sure you can find one that will fit snugly onto your filter down tube. Another thing you can do is use a piece of pipe like they did in this filter modification... http://www.goldfishconnection.com/articles/details.php?articleId=114&parentI d=10 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Erik Hammarstrom Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 1:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Starting new aquarium - Question on filter I am new to this hobby. I have 10 gallon tank, with a 5-15 Aqua-Tech Powe filter. I was wondering if they sold a extension tube to extend the intake deeper into the tank. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

It looks like you have too large of a power head. 1500 L/H is almost 20X your tank size. You should look for a power head around 500 L/H at most. You should not be turning your filter off at night. If you leave it off for 10 hours, ALL of the nitrifying bacteria will die.. or maybe very few might live. You are basically killing off your biological filtration every time you do that. At the least, leave the internal filter on 24 hours a day so at least it stays fully cycled at all times. The N-bacteria need a constant source of oxygenated water and ammonia/nitrite and trace elements to stay alive. When you turn off the filter, the N-bacteria start dying off due to a lack of those essential items. Until you find a smaller power head, you can either run the current one or not... if you don't, whenever you do a PWC, you should vacuum your gravel well where ever you do not have any plants. Actually... with all the filtration you now have... you really need to work on getting a bigger tank! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 3:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Yes I do have a power head running the UGF, and it's powerful compared to the tank's size, it's 1500 L/H (the tank is 80 L). I have a problem in finding suitable sponges for the internal filter, but I'll put a piece of plyster in the carbon cartridge after one month, when the carbon will no loner be active. I don't know what the filter floss is, is it the polyster (glass cotton)? can I put polyster on the discharge of the UGF power head instead? I tried several options of discharge directions for both filters the most suitable one was making them both heading fowrward, but it's still too strong current. I'm sure that your idea about covering the UGF discharge will make currents nicer for the plants. BTW, how many hours do you think I should run the filters? i usually turn them both off at night (about 10 hours). Thanks, again, for your patience. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter I'm glad you tested the sponge first. I figured it wasn't the proper type of sponge for use in aquariums. In another forum, a member said they go to their local crafts store, JoAnn's, which you likely do not have in your area, but they said they can buy the off-white colored (natural) open-cell foam in squares that are sold for use in re-padding a chair. They say they can easily breath through this foam and have used it in their aquariums without problems. It's a very small pore open-cell foam and is very inexpensive also compared to the specialized foam we can buy from various online fish stores. Since your tank is overstocked, it would be best to over-filter the tank also... along with doing the more frequent PWC's as I believe you are already doing. Only running the UGF once or twice a day isn't really helping with the biological filtration in your tank... which is something you definitely need in an overstocked tank. Further, the added agitation creates better surface agitation for proper gas exchange to keep the O2 levels up and allow for CO2 and other bad gas exchange at the surface. Since you say you are getting too much agitation when the two filters are running, try making sure the tank is filled up as much as possible. Next, try changing the direction of the discharge of your filters so they do not impact your plants as much. You could also have the discharge hitting a solid decoration first to spread out the discharge stream. The fish should be able to handle the water movement without much problem. I run 10X filtration on my fancy goldfish tank... two large filter systems moving a total of 650 gallons per hour and my fancy goldfish can handle that so I'm sure your fish can handle 10X filtration as well. Do you have a power head running the UGF filter? If so, you could add a piece of filter floss or open cell foam over the discharge of the power head and use a nylon tie to hold it on. This way, the discharge from the power head will not be such a strong spray in one direction and would be less of an impact also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter As I told Mike, the sponge is cheap and simple, doesn't even have a brand on it. But I just cut it into a 3/4 inch piece and sucked through it, the air passed but not very easily, plus, it smelled funny, so I'm thinking that it may actually contain the chemicals you both mentioned. Will do the polyster filling into the carbon container. I'll use a piece from my old filter "which is still running in the tank along with the new once since 2 days", to give the cycling thing a kick. As for running UGF and internal filter togeather, I tried it yesterday, and it was bothering to the fish, and the plants were also "dancing", it didn't seem good for them, a few stems were even pulled out of the gravel. that didn't happen when I runned only one filter each time. ( I usually run the UGF twice aday, about 1-2 hours each time, but sometimes get too busy to remember switching the two filters). Do you think I should simply shut the UGF down forever, or do I really need it in my overstocked tank? Thanks for the advise guys Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:33 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter The sponge for washing dishes may not be suitable. It may be closed-cell sponge and it may have some mildewcide added into the sponge during manufacturing. The sponge that came with the filter, that you can see through the holes is called open-cell sponge so the water can flow through it. It's more for catching big stuff and for having plenty of surface area for your N-bacteria. I would simply add the floss pads or poly-fill into the carbon section as the second layer of mechanical/biological filtration. When cleaning, you can clean the floss/poly good but only rinse/squeeze the sponge in some removed tank water to clean it while keeping the majority of the N-bacteria alive in the sponge. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi , I noticed that the sponge inside the new filter has really big holes. you can see the light through them. I was wondering if I can replace it with two 'twin' pieces of sponge with smaller holes, I bought a cube of "washing-dishes" sponge, colored.. can it work? Any advise? BTW, the filter contains a sealed carbon container, which I'm planning to open and empty a couple of weeks later, what do you suggest to put instead of the activated carbon: ciramic, plyster, floss pads, keep empty.. etc?? Thanks, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter There's a hole inside the new filter's sponge, I can fit a piece of plyster from the old filter (about 1/4 of the whole plyster. Hope it will work. Thanks Lenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Hi Noura, First I want to address your comment about not running both filters at the same time. This is not a good thing to do. When you turn off a filter, water quits flowing over/through the filter media and the good N-bacteria start to die off due to lack of O2 and food. This happens after only an hour or two so unless you are alternating the filters every hour, you aren't helping things by turning them off. Now on to your new filter. Can you take the filter media from the old filter and fit it into the new filter? If yes, then do that and run the new filter so the water flows over the old filter media first, then through the new filter media. After a couple of weeks, you can keep both filter media in the new filter but alternate cleaning them so one of them stays fully cycled at all times. This will also give you extra filter media to use in the event you ever need to set up a new tank, you could remove the extra "cycled" filter media and run it in the new tank filter so you will have a big head start on getting that tank fully cycled. With a UGF, a lot of the N-bacteria live on the surface areas of all of the gravel so changing the filter media does not affect the cycle as much with a UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28176	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

I thought I already told you that you could cover the discharge of the power head with either some poly pad or open cell foam but you will have to use a nylon zip tie or something to hold it on since you have such a strong power head. As I said in my most recent reply, it's really much too large for your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter Yeah Ray, right, I missed that valuable post, just found it 'unread of course' in my 'overstocked' inbox. * I'm still waiting for a reply about covering the discharge of the UGF head with polyster, this will solve the problem of pulling the stems off the gravel. And yes, they do get pulled off although my UGF is running in the normal mode (water is sucked up through the tube to the power head). The pulling off is the result of 'dancing' movements, you can't expect WEAK currents in a small tank with two power head filters running. You'll be really surprised to know the poor aquatic knowledge among fish store owners here. Not mentioning the lack of equipments, I can't find tank siphons, testing kits, live food, fry food (egg layer) , etc.. I got the advise of turning the filters off at night from a fish keeper who said that the fish need to rest at night. Plans are made to take away some of my fish, my first option is my home-bred guppies, and the pair of blue gouramis ( 3 " and 2 1/2" ) as they can grow fast and big, but they're about to lay eggs I think, the female's belly is rounded and the male is being very aggressive towards his tank mates, I just separated them in a smaller tank . I'll wait them to lay eggs then I'll take them back to the fish store, if I had the heart to do it! Don't give up hope on me, I may turn out to be a good fish keeper in the near future! Thanks for the advise(s) Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 2:35 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter Noura, Its obvious you have not read my descriptive reply (is my typing invisible lately? LOL). You CANNOT turn off your filters and expect the beneficial bacteria to survive!!! Ray No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28177	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

I read all your replies Lenny, but what I was asking about is are the poly-fill , ply pad, and the polyster (glass wool) the same thing? or at least serve the same purpose of covering? iy That's why I was asking again, it's not the principle of covering the discharge, I took your advise as a trusted one from the very beginning. Again, I'm just asking about the material of covering. I have polyster at home, will it work? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 5:22 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter I thought I already told you that you could cover the discharge of the power head with either some poly pad or open cell foam but you will have to use a nylon zip tie or something to hold it on since you have such a strong power head. As I said in my most recent reply, it's really much too large for your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28178	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

Noura, Glad to see you're taking these recommendations and/or criticisms in the spirit they are meant ( solely to help you). BTW, you might want to clean up that overstocked inbox -- can't get too much help if you don't get the replies. Giving up on someone so eager to learn about fish keeping is the furthest thing from our minds. As long as you're earnest enough to seek out the needed info, we'll be more than happy to try to keep you informed. Too bad about the lack of knowledge and equipment at your fish store. Your fish could use a rest at night, if they are otherwise constantly fighting the current, but you'll need to replace those powerheads with ones more compatable to your tank (with a slower flow rate). Some of them have adjustable flow rates, but apparently not yours. With your description of your nearby fish store owners' knowledge, I might guess that you bought your powerhead(s) there, with their recommendation. If that's the case, you ought to be able to bring it/them back to the store for exchange for more fitting powerhead(s) for your 10 gallon tank -- even though the equipment is now used. Its not your fault they sold you the wrong equipment, if it was their idea to do so. If you took that upon yourself though, you can only try to take it back, but should in any case get something smaller. Your intentions to breed your Blue Gourami's is commendable, and would be most interesting, but I feel you will not have much luck when trying to raise them when breeding them in a smaller tank than your 10 gallon (a 10 gallon will not even be large enough); their spawns are large. You could give it a try though, for the experience of it, but be alert to pull out the female after breeding, since it sounds like they'll be in tight quarters. You can pull out the male too, after the fry are free swimming, or even before then as both the fry and eggs float among the male's rather weak and scattered bubble nest. I'm SURE You'll turn out to be a good fish keeper, if you have the intentions to and listen to sound advice. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > Yeah Ray, right, I missed that valuable post, just found it 'unread of > course' in my 'overstocked' inbox. > > * I'm still waiting for a reply about covering the discharge of the UGF head > with polyster, this will solve the problem of pulling the stems off the > gravel. > And yes, they do get pulled off although my UGF is running in the normal > mode (water is sucked up through the tube to the power head). The pulling > off is the result of 'dancing' movements, you can't expect WEAK currents in > a small tank with two power head filters running. > > You'll be really surprised to know the poor aquatic knowledge among fish > store owners here. Not mentioning the lack of equipments, I can't find tank > siphons, testing kits, live food, fry food (egg layer) , etc.. > I got the advise of turning the filters off at night from a fish keeper who > said that the fish need to rest at night. > > > Plans are made to take away some of my fish, my first option is my home-bred > guppies, and the pair of blue gouramis ( 3 " and 2 1/2" ) as they can grow > fast and big, but they're about to lay eggs I think, the female's belly is > rounded and the male is being very aggressive towards his tank mates, I just > separated them in a smaller tank . I'll wait them to lay eggs then I'll take > them back to the fish store, if I had the heart to do it! > > Don't give up hope on me, I may turn out to be a good fish keeper in the > near future! > > Thanks for the advise(s) > Noura > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 2:35 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter > > > Noura, Its obvious you have not read my descriptive reply (is my > typing invisible lately? LOL). You CANNOT turn off your filters and > expect the beneficial bacteria to survive!!! Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28179	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

You would have to show me what you have. I've seen filter media called lots of different things over the years. You say you have polyester at home but polyester can come in many different forms, including some shirts I had back in the 70's (Go Disco! lol). This doesn't have to be complicated. If you have some kind of thick sturdy filter media that you can wrap loosely and secure around the powerhead discharge, this will help to diffuse the output of the powerhead so it's not blasting out in one direction... until you can get a smaller powerhead. Just make sure you are running your internal filter 24/7 and check your water daily for ammonia/nitrite for the next couple of weeks since your tank probably wasn't cycled before since you weren't running your filters 24/7. Of course, if your tank is heavily planted, they will help with using some of the ammonia as a food source but you won't know if they are doing a complete job unless you test your water. Let us know your numbers and we can help further. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 4:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter I read all your replies Lenny, but what I was asking about is are the poly-fill , ply pad, and the polyster (glass wool) the same thing? or at least serve the same purpose of covering? iy That's why I was asking again, it's not the principle of covering the discharge, I took your advise as a trusted one from the very beginning. Again, I'm just asking about the material of covering. I have polyster at home, will it work? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 5:22 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter I thought I already told you that you could cover the discharge of the power head with either some poly pad or open cell foam but you will have to use a nylon zip tie or something to hold it on since you have such a strong power head. As I said in my most recent reply, it's really much too large for your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1481 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:31 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1482 - Release Date: 6/4/2008 7:10 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28180	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter-Breeding gourami

Thanks for the encouragement Ray, I appreciate it. I'll change the power head VERY soon, but it's a few years old, so I'm not expecting to have a good bargain. It's no problem anyway, the equipments here are somehow cheap, even when compared to the income. I can buy a new power head for 5 - 8 $ , but they're mostly chinese. BTW, unfortunately, it's not A fish store owner, it's ownerSSSSSS!! I know three of them, none knows a thing about parameters, or even thinks they're necessary, except for pH only in Discus tanks. My tank is a 20G , not a 10G. About breeding the blue gouramis, I'm not really hoping to get the fry alive! all my concern is to empty the female's belly and calm that male down. He was making terror in the tank. And now he's attacking the female in the small tank, I guess he's too stressed about building a nest for a first time! not very different from us humans I guess. lol He almost ripped the female's tail, she's hiding from him. I only want them to lay eggs, otherwise I'm afraid that the female won't release the eggs by her own, and get sick or die. Any suggestions are welcomed, I remind you that I'm not concerned about the eggs hatching or getting any fry alive.. Can they lay eggs in a crowded 20G community tank, at least the female will ge able to hide better when the male is having attacking instinct kicks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 4:17 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter Noura, Glad to see you're taking these recommendations and/or criticisms in the spirit they are meant ( solely to help you). BTW, you might want to clean up that overstocked inbox -- can't get too much help if you don't get the replies. Giving up on someone so eager to learn about fish keeping is the furthest thing from our minds. As long as you're earnest enough to seek out the needed info, we'll be more than happy to try to keep you informed. Too bad about the lack of knowledge and equipment at your fish store. Your fish could use a rest at night, if they are otherwise constantly fighting the current, but you'll need to replace those powerheads with ones more compatable to your tank (with a slower flow rate). Some of them have adjustable flow rates, but apparently not yours. With your description of your nearby fish store owners' knowledge, I might guess that you bought your powerhead(s) there, with their recommendation. If that's the case, you ought to be able to bring it/them back to the store for exchange for more fitting powerhead(s) for your 10 gallon tank -- even though the equipment is now used. Its not your fault they sold you the wrong equipment, if it was their idea to do so. If you took that upon yourself though, you can only try to take it back, but should in any case get something smaller. Your intentions to breed your Blue Gourami's is commendable, and would be most interesting, but I feel you will not have much luck when trying to raise them when breeding them in a smaller tank than your 10 gallon (a 10 gallon will not even be large enough); their spawns are large. You could give it a try though, for the experience of it, but be alert to pull out the female after breeding, since it sounds like they'll be in tight quarters. You can pull out the male too, after the fry are free swimming, or even before then as both the fry and eggs float among the male's rather weak and scattered bubble nest. I'm SURE You'll turn out to be a good fish keeper, if you have the intentions to and listen to sound advice. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28181	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter-Breeding gourami

As the powerhead is a few years old, you won't be able to bring it back to the store but since they're only $5 to $8 it would pay to replace it with a suitable one for a 20 gallon tank. BTW, I believe you may have at first referred to your tank as a 10 gallon, but then corrected yourself unless I'm mistaken (I may have your tank confused with someone else's). If, however, that's the case, that's probably where I got the 10 gallon size from and forgot you later told us it was a 20 gallon. Yes, I did see you refer to the "poor aquatic knowledge of the fish store owners here." This is why I used the plural possessive form of "owner" (as owners'), rather than owner's. Also too bad that you can't get a better variety of fish foods either. As for a syphon hose, you should be able to get something from a hardware store that would serve the purpose. I was afraid the male Blue Gourami might get aggressive (and protective of the eggs), but I expected this after they spawned -- this is why I recommended removing her afterwards. You keep referring to this breeding tank as a "smaller tank," but I still don't know its size. All's I can say at this time, with his behavior, is to treat them as you would Bettas. Put a glass divider in the tank, add some bunch plants to provide the female some hiding places and keep the lighting subdued when you do put them together. For now, although there won't be a bar-pattern on her flanks to indicate when she is ready (you do indicate she has eggs now), watch for her wanting to join the male to spawn. In the meantime, this will give him a chance to build a nest. When that's built, and she shows eagerness to want to join the male, remove the divider but watch for his being too attentive (aggressive). If they're both ready they should spawn, provided the tank is not too small so as to prevent her from seeking refuge if she needs to (this is where the plants come into play). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the encouragement Ray, I appreciate it. I'll change the power > head VERY soon, but it's a few years old, so I'm not expecting to have a > good bargain. It's no problem anyway, the equipments here are somehow cheap, > even when compared to the income. I can buy a new power head for 5 - 8 $ , > but they're mostly chinese. > > BTW, unfortunately, it's not A fish store owner, it's ownerSSSSSS!! I know > three of them, none knows a thing about parameters, or even thinks they're > necessary, except for pH only in Discus tanks. > > My tank is a 20G , not a 10G. > > About breeding the blue gouramis, I'm not really hoping to get the fry > alive! all my concern is to empty the female's belly and calm that male > down. He was making terror in the tank. And now he's attacking the female > in the small tank, I guess he's too stressed about building a nest for a > first time! not very different from us humans I guess. lol > He almost ripped the female's tail, she's hiding from him. I only want them > to lay eggs, otherwise I'm afraid that the female won't release the eggs by > her own, and get sick or die. > > Any suggestions are welcomed, I remind you that I'm not concerned about the > eggs hatching or getting any fry alive.. > Can they lay eggs in a crowded 20G community tank, at least the female will > ge able to hide better when the male is having attacking instinct kicks! > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 4:17 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter > > > Noura, Glad to see you're taking these recommendations and/or > criticisms in the spirit they are meant ( solely to help you). BTW, > you might want to clean up that overstocked inbox -- can't get too > much help if you don't get the replies. > > Giving up on someone so eager to learn about fish keeping is the > furthest thing from our minds. As long as you're earnest enough to > seek out the needed info, we'll be more than happy to try to keep you > informed. Too bad about the lack of knowledge and equipment at your > fish store. Your fish could use a rest at night, if they are > otherwise constantly fighting the current, but you'll need to replace > those powerheads with ones more compatable to your tank (with a > slower flow rate). Some of them have adjustable flow rates, but > apparently not yours. > > With your description of your nearby fish store owners' knowledge, I > might guess that you bought your powerhead(s) there, with their > recommendation. If that's the case, you ought to be able to bring > it/them back to the store for exchange for more fitting powerhead(s) > for your 10 gallon tank -- even though the equipment is now used. > Its not your fault they sold you the wrong equipment, if it was their > idea to do so. If you took that upon yourself though, you can only > try to take it back, but should in any case get something smaller. > > Your intentions to breed your Blue Gourami's is commendable, and > would be most interesting, but I feel you will not have much luck > when trying to raise them when breeding them in a smaller tank than > your 10 gallon (a 10 gallon will not even be large enough); their > spawns are large. You could give it a try though, for the experience > of it, but be alert to pull out the female after breeding, since it > sounds like they'll be in tight quarters. You can pull out the male > too, after the fry are free swimming, or even before then as both the > fry and eggs float among the male's rather weak and scattered bubble > nest. > > I'm SURE You'll turn out to be a good fish keeper, if you have the > intentions to and listen to sound advice. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28182	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: My tank's updates- (Was: Breeding Gourami)

Hi, I just took the pair of Blue Gourami away. The male kept being too aggressive in the tiny tank ( 3 G tank), he was hurting her seriously. And as I already decided to take them away when they finish laying eggs, I found that now is the best time to do it, before the female is seriously injured. I miss them already, I hope they will soon find a better place, I traded them for quality fish flakes, and told the seller that they are a pair who's about to lay eggs. I couldn't find a smaller power head yet, the smallest was 1000 L/H, and that's too strong . Will do the polyster coverage until I found a weaker power head. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter-Breeding gourami As the powerhead is a few years old, you won't be able to bring it back to the store but since they're only $5 to $8 it would pay to replace it with a suitable one for a 20 gallon tank. BTW, I believe you may have at first referred to your tank as a 10 gallon, but then corrected yourself unless I'm mistaken (I may have your tank confused with someone else's). If, however, that's the case, that's probably where I got the 10 gallon size from and forgot you later told us it was a 20 gallon. Yes, I did see you refer to the "poor aquatic knowledge of the fish store owners here." This is why I used the plural possessive form of "owner" (as owners'), rather than owner's. Also too bad that you can't get a better variety of fish foods either. As for a syphon hose, you should be able to get something from a hardware store that would serve the purpose. I was afraid the male Blue Gourami might get aggressive (and protective of the eggs), but I expected this after they spawned -- this is why I recommended removing her afterwards. You keep referring to this breeding tank as a "smaller tank," but I still don't know its size. All's I can say at this time, with his behavior, is to treat them as you would Bettas. Put a glass divider in the tank, add some bunch plants to provide the female some hiding places and keep the lighting subdued when you do put them together. For now, although there won't be a bar-pattern on her flanks to indicate when she is ready (you do indicate she has eggs now), watch for her wanting to join the male to spawn. In the meantime, this will give him a chance to build a nest. When that's built, and she shows eagerness to want to join the male, remove the divider but watch for his being too attentive (aggressive). If they're both ready they should spawn, provided the tank is not too small so as to prevent her from seeking refuge if she needs to (this is where the plants come into play). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the encouragement Ray, I appreciate it. I'll change the power > head VERY soon, but it's a few years old, so I'm not expecting to have a > good bargain. It's no problem anyway, the equipments here are somehow cheap, > even when compared to the income. I can buy a new power head for 5 - 8 $ , > but they're mostly chinese. > > BTW, unfortunately, it's not A fish store owner, it's ownerSSSSSS!! I know > three of them, none knows a thing about parameters, or even thinks they're > necessary, except for pH only in Discus tanks. > > My tank is a 20G , not a 10G. > > About breeding the blue gouramis, I'm not really hoping to get the fry > alive! all my concern is to empty the female's belly and calm that male > down. He was making terror in the tank. And now he's attacking the female > in the small tank, I guess he's too stressed about building a nest for a > first time! not very different from us humans I guess. lol > He almost ripped the female's tail, she's hiding from him. I only want them > to lay eggs, otherwise I'm afraid that the female won't release the eggs by > her own, and get sick or die. > > Any suggestions are welcomed, I remind you that I'm not concerned about the > eggs hatching or getting any fry alive.. > Can they lay eggs in a crowded 20G community tank, at least the female will > ge able to hide better when the male is having attacking instinct kicks! > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 4:17 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter > > > Noura, Glad to see you're taking these recommendations and/or > criticisms in the spirit they are meant ( solely to help you). BTW, > you might want to clean up that overstocked inbox -- can't get too > much help if you don't get the replies. > > Giving up on someone so eager to learn about fish keeping is the > furthest thing from our minds. As long as you're earnest enough to > seek out the needed info, we'll be more than happy to try to keep you > informed. Too bad about the lack of knowledge and equipment at your > fish store. Your fish could use a rest at night, if they are > otherwise constantly fighting the current, but you'll need to replace > those powerheads with ones more compatable to your tank (with a > slower flow rate). Some of them have adjustable flow rates, but > apparently not yours. > > With your description of your nearby fish store owners' knowledge, I > might guess that you bought your powerhead(s) there, with their > recommendation. If that's the case, you ought to be able to bring > it/them back to the store for exchange for more fitting powerhead(s) > for your 10 gallon tank -- even though the equipment is now used. > Its not your fault they sold you the wrong equipment, if it was their > idea to do so. If you took that upon yourself though, you can only > try to take it back, but should in any case get something smaller. > > Your intentions to breed your Blue Gourami's is commendable, and > would be most interesting, but I feel you will not have much luck > when trying to raise them when breeding them in a smaller tank than > your 10 gallon (a 10 gallon will not even be large enough); their > spawns are large. You could give it a try though, for the experience > of it, but be alert to pull out the female after breeding, since it > sounds like they'll be in tight quarters. You can pull out the male > too, after the fry are free swimming, or even before then as both the > fry and eggs float among the male's rather weak and scattered bubble > nest. > > I'm SURE You'll turn out to be a good fish keeper, if you have the > intentions to and listen to sound advice. Ray > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((?> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<?((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28183	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?

Hi Lenny, I can provide that information, but it will take a few days as I'm having a busy week at work. I'll post it over the weekend.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28184	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: My tank's updates- (Was: Breeding Gourami)

Remember when doing the "polyester" coverage over the powerhead discharge, that you want it to be like a balloon over the discharge... not tight fitting over the opening. The you will have to use a nylon tie or other method to secure it over the powerhead. The "balloon" will fill up with the water from the powerhead discharge and then that water will flow out of all of the surface areas of the "polyester" which will diffuse the flow from being powerful in only one direction. I did reply to your off-list email... did you get it? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My tank's updates- (Was: Breeding Gourami) Hi, I just took the pair of Blue Gourami away. The male kept being too aggressive in the tiny tank ( 3 G tank), he was hurting her seriously. And as I already decided to take them away when they finish laying eggs, I found that now is the best time to do it, before the female is seriously injured. I miss them already, I hope they will soon find a better place, I traded them for quality fish flakes, and told the seller that they are a pair who's about to lay eggs. I couldn't find a smaller power head yet, the smallest was 1000 L/H, and that's too strong . Will do the polyster coverage until I found a weaker power head. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter-Breeding gourami As the powerhead is a few years old, you won't be able to bring it back to the store but since they're only $5 to $8 it would pay to replace it with a suitable one for a 20 gallon tank. BTW, I believe you may have at first referred to your tank as a 10 gallon, but then corrected yourself unless I'm mistaken (I may have your tank confused with someone else's). If, however, that's the case, that's probably where I got the 10 gallon size from and forgot you later told us it was a 20 gallon. Yes, I did see you refer to the "poor aquatic knowledge of the fish store owners here." This is why I used the plural possessive form of "owner" (as owners'), rather than owner's. Also too bad that you can't get a better variety of fish foods either. As for a syphon hose, you should be able to get something from a hardware store that would serve the purpose. I was afraid the male Blue Gourami might get aggressive (and protective of the eggs), but I expected this after they spawned -- this is why I recommended removing her afterwards. You keep referring to this breeding tank as a "smaller tank," but I still don't know its size. All's I can say at this time, with his behavior, is to treat them as you would Bettas. Put a glass divider in the tank, add some bunch plants to provide the female some hiding places and keep the lighting subdued when you do put them together. For now, although there won't be a bar-pattern on her flanks to indicate when she is ready (you do indicate she has eggs now), watch for her wanting to join the male to spawn. In the meantime, this will give him a chance to build a nest. When that's built, and she shows eagerness to want to join the male, remove the divider but watch for his being too attentive (aggressive). If they're both ready they should spawn, provided the tank is not too small so as to prevent her from seeking refuge if she needs to (this is where the plants come into play). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the encouragement Ray, I appreciate it. I'll change the power > head VERY soon, but it's a few years old, so I'm not expecting to have a > good bargain. It's no problem anyway, the equipments here are somehow cheap, > even when compared to the income. I can buy a new power head for 5 - 8 $ , > but they're mostly chinese. > > BTW, unfortunately, it's not A fish store owner, it's ownerSSSSSS!! I know > three of them, none knows a thing about parameters, or even thinks they're > necessary, except for pH only in Discus tanks. > > My tank is a 20G , not a 10G. > > About breeding the blue gouramis, I'm not really hoping to get the fry > alive! all my concern is to empty the female's belly and calm that male > down. He was making terror in the tank. And now he's attacking the female > in the small tank, I guess he's too stressed about building a nest for a > first time! not very different from us humans I guess. lol He almost > ripped the female's tail, she's hiding from him. I only want them > to lay eggs, otherwise I'm afraid that the female won't release the eggs by > her own, and get sick or die. > > Any suggestions are welcomed, I remind you that I'm not concerned about the > eggs hatching or getting any fry alive.. > Can they lay eggs in a crowded 20G community tank, at least the female will > ge able to hide better when the male is having attacking instinct kicks! > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 4:17 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter > > > Noura, Glad to see you're taking these recommendations and/or > criticisms in the spirit they are meant ( solely to help you). BTW, > you might want to clean up that overstocked inbox -- can't get too > much help if you don't get the replies. > > Giving up on someone so eager to learn about fish keeping is the > furthest thing from our minds. As long as you're earnest enough to > seek out the needed info, we'll be more than happy to try to keep you > informed. Too bad about the lack of knowledge and equipment at your > fish store. Your fish could use a rest at night, if they are otherwise > constantly fighting the current, but you'll need to replace > those powerheads with ones more compatable to your tank (with a slower > flow rate). Some of them have adjustable flow rates, but apparently > not yours. > > With your description of your nearby fish store owners' knowledge, I > might guess that you bought your powerhead(s) there, with their > recommendation. If that's the case, you ought to be able to bring > it/them back to the store for exchange for more fitting powerhead(s) > for your 10 gallon tank -- even though the equipment is now used. > Its not your fault they sold you the wrong equipment, if it was their > idea to do so. If you took that upon yourself though, you can only try > to take it back, but should in any case get something smaller. > > Your intentions to breed your Blue Gourami's is commendable, and would > be most interesting, but I feel you will not have much luck when > trying to raise them when breeding them in a smaller tank than your 10 > gallon (a 10 gallon will not even be large enough); their spawns are > large. You could give it a try though, for the experience > of it, but be alert to pull out the female after breeding, since it > sounds like they'll be in tight quarters. You can pull out the male > too, after the fry are free swimming, or even before then as both the > fry and eggs float among the male's rather weak and scattered bubble > nest. > > I'm SURE You'll turn out to be a good fish keeper, if you have the > intentions to and listen to sound advice. Ray > ------------------------------------ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1482 - Release Date: 6/4/2008 7:10 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28185	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: HELP NEEDED

I am moving from Michigan to South Carolina and I can not bear the thought of leaving my plecos and chiclids <<< spelling may be off behind can anyone help me figure out how I am going to move them safely? I have had them for 6 years they are my babies. Thank You for your time Steff also thank you for letting me join as I am new here

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28186	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2008
Subject: Re: HELP NEEDED

Check out these threads/articles that I have in my favorites folder and you can also search the group for "moving". Depending on your equipment, supplies, etc., you may have to morph the information in these articles to suit your needs. http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11321 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=129060 http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/freshwater-general-discussion/28882-i-moved- 3-000-miles-my-fish-update-after-move.html http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/moving_fish.htm Come back and tell us how everything went when you get moved in to your new place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grdnfan243@... Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP NEEDED I am moving from Michigan to South Carolina and I can not bear the thought of leaving my plecos and chiclids <<< spelling may be off behind can anyone help me figure out how I am going to move them safely? I have had them for 6 years they are my babies. Thank You for your time Steff also thank you for letting me join as I am new here No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1482 - Release Date: 6/4/2008 7:10 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28187	From: sibey_kiasu	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: hi

any alligator snapper keeper here?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28188	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Moving update

Well I got to FL, the bettta girls are all in one piece but I did lose several plants, including most of my hornwort (it had white spores on it and was literally falling apart, but no visible rot), my java fern (rotted) and naja grass (rotted). It looks like my narrowleaf java fern is on its way out too. Anyone in the FL panhandle have some cuttings they'd be willing to give me? :) -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28189	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Nano Cubes

Thank you! --- On Tue, 6/3/08, ED <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: From: ED <crowstarwalker@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 1:55 PM BEAUTIFUL! --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Kate Conrow <k8hardy@... > wrote: > > I'm hooked on planted tanks. This is my latest. > > http://a557. ac- images.myspacecdn. com/images01/ 44/l_a743afeeecb f1f649cbc2985646 d9964.j pg > It's a little more filled in now. I love working with freshwater shrimp too. I started another tank for Sparkling Gourami's recently as well. I love the subtle colors and the way the light brings them out. > Kate > > --- On Sun, 6/1/08, Deenerz@... Deenerz@... wrote: > From: Deenerz@... Deenerz@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, June 1, 2008, 4:40 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Bah Humbug :) > > > > I keep Rift Lake Cichlids as well as other fish and they are gorgeous. > > > > I also used to believe that only salt water fish were pretty until I wandered into the Cichlid area of the local fish stores. I walked away from the idea of a saltwater tank and now have over 25 freshwater tanks. > > I have been looking at Rainbow fish lately and bought a couple different ones and love watching them as well as my cichlids. > > > > A well done planted tank with fish is stunningingly beautiful in its own right. I am still working on setting up a nice planted tank. > > > > -Mike > > > > I am researching the possibility of setting up a marine tank, having kept > > several tropical tanks for over 15 years. My local stockist refers to the > > cold-water and tropical fish sections of his shop as black and white and the > > marine section as colour and its easy to see why but there are beautiful > > cold-water and tropical fish that are relatively inexpensive and easy to > > keep. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steve &lt;stephen. abson@ sky.com&gt; > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:37 pm > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes > > > > Hi guys > > > > I've been lurking for a couple of weeks so hope you are all well. > > > > Not sure if there are any other members from the UK in the group so I > > apologise if I use different terms as we tend to use the metric system for > > volume and temperature etc. > > > > To add to the nano cube debate it is evident from the recent aquaria shows > > around the world this year that small is once again beautiful. Technology > > for setting up, supporting and maintaining a small tank has progressed > > considerably in recent years. Although a smaller aquarium will generally > > cost less than a larger one as running costs should be lower, a small volume > > of water is much harder to maintain even for an experienced aquarist. > > > > Fundamentally I consider any decision to keep fish and other aquatic life, > > be it in cold-water, tropical or marine set-ups should be based on the > > desire to create the best possible living environment for the occupants. In > > order to do so requires both time and money. > > > > I am researching the possibility of setting up a marine tank, having kept > > several tropical tanks for over 15 years. My local stockist refers to the > > cold-water and tropical fish sections of his shop as black and white and the > > marine section as colour and its easy to see why but there are beautiful > > cold-water and tropical fish that are relatively inexpensive and easy to > > keep. > > > > To follow the advice of those who have posted before if you have the time > > and money to set up a marine tank and are prepared to learn then the very > > best of luck, inevitably there will be mistakes. Every fishkeeper > > experiences problems, some are of their own making and other things just > > happen. Knowing what to do, who to call or email, when things go wrong is > > all part of the learning. > > > > Regards > > > > Steve > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen > > Sent: 01 June 2008 18:15 > > To: Aquaria 2 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nano Cubes > > > > &gt; Learning all you can and trying it,failing perhaps but trying again. > > &gt; Tis how you gain experience. > > I might be out of line here, but failing means death to the animals > > involved, and not a pleasant one. It's also why many people leave the hobby > > because they set themselves up for failure. Salt water fish keeping is > > expensive and not easy to do correctly. > > Dana Rasmussen > > Seattle > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28190	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: hi

I used to have one when I had a pond. Kate --- On Thu, 6/5/08, sibey_kiasu <sibey_kiasu@...> wrote: From: sibey_kiasu <sibey_kiasu@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] hi To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 5, 2008, 7:58 AM any alligator snapper keeper here? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28191	From: mandacaplan	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Removing dea koi eggs from a pond

I am new to the world of pond/koi keeping and I received some koi from my koi club that keep spawning....any suggestions on how to remove the dead sticky eggs from all of the plants so it doesnt cause problems??

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28192	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Dwarf Gourami wounded

Hi, As a result of my 'former' Blue Gourami's aggression while nesting, the Dwarf Gourami was injured, it's a 1mm wound on the forhead. I'm afraid the wound will develop into something else if it wasn't treated. I have 3 medicines at home: * Green Malachite "spelling?" * "General Aid", ingredients are not mentioned on the bottle neither box. It's says it's for ALL common fish diseases like ick, sore spots, fin rot, torn fins, mouth and body fungus. Note the "ALL" here. * " Gill, fungus, parasie special", also doesn't mention effective ingredients. What do you suggest? I'm not planning to move the Dwarf Gourami to a hospital tank, it's obviously an injury not a disease. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28193	From: deborahgd14	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP NEEDED

I am moving from NYS to SC in a month. I am going to bring some of my fish with me. I used to ship them across the country and sometimes they were in bags for 5+ days so I figure they'll be ok with me. I am putting them in shipping bags. Petsmart is giving me oxygen for the bags and then will put them in a styrofoam cooler. It's as simple as that. They will be in the coolers from Tuesday am to Wed. pm so that's not too bad. You can do it. Many breeders ship fish all over the country so think of it that way. Deborah --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, grdnfan243@... wrote: > > I am moving from Michigan to South Carolina and I can not bear the thought > of leaving my plecos and chiclids <<< spelling may be off behind can anyone > help me figure out how I am going to move them safely? I have had them for 6 > years they are my babies. > Thank You for your time > Steff > also thank you for letting me join as I am new here >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28194	From: deborahgd14	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: hi

what is that? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sibey_kiasu" <sibey_kiasu@...> wrote: > > any alligator snapper keeper here? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28195	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

I suggest experimenting. I myself have a power pump too big for my tank - it's rated for a 10 to 20 gallon tank in a 10 gallon tank - and while my plastic plant getup is working well enough for the fish at the moment, I might experiment with some coarse foam or some finer polyfil. It's just a matter of breaking up the turbulence as teh water hits the surface so that it doesn't make too much turbulence for the fish, so whatever works, works. PS - I won't be taking my powerhead back because one day I may upgrade to a bigger tank and don't want to buy everything all over again. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter You would have to show me what you have. I've seen filter media called lots of different things over the years. You say you have polyester at home but polyester can come in many different forms, including some shirts I had back in the 70's (Go Disco! lol). This doesn't have to be complicated. If you have some kind of thick sturdy filter media that you can wrap loosely and secure around the powerhead discharge, this will help to diffuse the output of the powerhead so it's not blasting out in one direction... until you can get a smaller powerhead. Just make sure you are running your internal filter 24/7 and check your water daily for ammonia/nitrite for the next couple of weeks since your tank probably wasn't cycled before since you weren't running your filters 24/7. Of course, if your tank is heavily planted, they will help with using some of the ammonia as a food source but you won't know if they are doing a complete job unless you test your water. Let us know your numbers and we can help further. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28196	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

Thanks for that idea, Lenny. I actually have some plastic plants tied under mine. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter I thought I already told you that you could cover the discharge of the power head with either some poly pad or open cell foam but you will have to use a nylon zip tie or something to hold it on since you have such a strong power head. As I said in my most recent reply, it's really much too large for your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter Yeah Ray, right, I missed that valuable post, just found it 'unread of course' in my 'overstocked' inbox. * I'm still waiting for a reply about covering the discharge of the UGF head with polyster, this will solve the problem of pulling the stems off the gravel. And yes, they do get pulled off although my UGF is running in the normal mode (water is sucked up through the tube to the power head). The pulling off is the result of 'dancing' movements, you can't expect WEAK currents in a small tank with two power head filters running. You'll be really surprised to know the poor aquatic knowledge among fish store owners here. Not mentioning the lack of equipments, I can't find tank siphons, testing kits, live food, fry food (egg layer) , etc.. I got the advise of turning the filters off at night from a fish keeper who said that the fish need to rest at night. Plans are made to take away some of my fish, my first option is my home-bred guppies, and the pair of blue gouramis ( 3 " and 2 1/2" ) as they can grow fast and big, but they're about to lay eggs I think, the female's belly is rounded and the male is being very aggressive towards his tank mates, I just separated them in a smaller tank . I'll wait them to lay eggs then I'll take them back to the fish store, if I had the heart to do it! Don't give up hope on me, I may turn out to be a good fish keeper in the near future! Thanks for the advise(s) Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 2:35 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Replacing internal filter Noura, Its obvious you have not read my descriptive reply (is my typing invisible lately? LOL). You CANNOT turn off your filters and expect the beneficial bacteria to survive!!! Ray No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28197	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Which tetras to get?

Skirted serpia tetras are different from serpia tetras? Yours, Dora Smith

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28198	From: caroline	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: bio filter

my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28199	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

I'm wondering what would be the reason to turn the filter off at night. To save power? Well, apparently it is a humungous filter. But I wonder if conceivably the problem is noise, and if so, if hte problem could be solved fairly easily. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28200	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

Caroline, If you are referring to a Biowheel filter, never throw them away. Your filter might be clogged or impeded somewhere. Have you tried removing the intake pipe and rinsing it out in the sink? Or the intake strainer? If those are clear the impeller may be clogging. You can remove the impeller and it's housing and rinse it out in the sink. Please make sure you do not drop the impeller down the drain. If the water is flowing fast and the wheel is not rolling or is slow you can take it and make sure the little bearings are still there and do not get lost. You can gently shake the bio wheel in the tank itself and place it back in the cradle it rests in. Mike my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline -----Original Message----- From: caroline <waves02@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 7:42 am Subject: [AquaticLife] bio filter my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28201	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

You can do either. I'd try rinsing it first, in water you siphoned from the tank. NOT in fresh tap water. If it does need to be changed, there's a pparently a trick to it, so that you keep the bacteria you establisehd in it. You may need to change the charcoal in the filter if you don't need to change the filter itself. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: caroline To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] bio filter my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1485 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 10:07 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28202	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

Um, Not really. When the filter cartridge in a bio wheel filter is clogged the water still flows over the top of the cartridge and still makes the wheel spin freely. Please see the message I just posted regarding biowheel filters. -Mike You can do either. I'd try rinsing it first, in water you siphoned from the tank. NOT in fresh tap water. If it does need to be changed, there's a pparently a trick to it, so that you keep the bacteria you establisehd in it. You may need to change the charcoal in the filter if you don't need to change the filter itself. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 6:36 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] bio filter You can do either. I'd try rinsing it first, in water you siphoned from the tank. NOT in fresh tap water. If it does need to be changed, there's a pparently a trick to it, so that you keep the bacteria you establisehd in it. You may need to change the charcoal in the filter if you don't need to change the filter itself. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: caroline To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] bio filter my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1485 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 10:07 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28203	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

You can rinse them off and clean the white ends but as a general rule you don't want to touch it so you don't kill the bacteria. Now if its a well established tank there should be enough bacteria established to handle changing the whole thing. Usualy I try to wait til they're falling apart to change them Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: caroline <waves02@...> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 07:42:36 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] bio filter my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28204	From: Carmen H	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

If you mean a bio-wheel DO NOT thoroughly clean or toss it! (Never do more than a quick rinse in tank water!) In my experience, if it slows down, the water flow might be impeded, either because the intake is blocked or the filter pad is clogged/dirty. Or if you have hard water, there may be build-up around the peg that seats the biowheel on the housing. Biowheels never need replacement unless they somehow sustain damage... Carmen On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 10:42 AM, caroline <waves02@...> wrote: > my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do > I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28205	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami wounded

You do not mention that you have salt at home. If not get some and use it at the rate at about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons as a prophylactic. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 7:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Gourami wounded Hi, As a result of my 'former' Blue Gourami's aggression while nesting, the Dwarf Gourami was injured, it's a 1mm wound on the forhead. I'm afraid the wound will develop into something else if it wasn't treated. I have 3 medicines at home: * Green Malachite "spelling?" * "General Aid", ingredients are not mentioned on the bottle neither box. It's says it's for ALL common fish diseases like ick, sore spots, fin rot, torn fins, mouth and body fungus. Note the "ALL" here. * " Gill, fungus, parasie special", also doesn't mention effective ingredients. What do you suggest? I'm not planning to move the Dwarf Gourami to a hospital tank, it's obviously an injury not a disease. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28206	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami wounded

An injured fish should also be moved to a H-tank. Darwinism (survival of the fittest) will often cause other fish to harass a sick or injured fish. Even if you don't see this happening, the injured fish will have additional stress worrying about whether the other fish are planning an attack. Being by itself just gives it a little peace of mind that it can relax and get well. Who is the manufacturer of the "General Aid"? Maybe we can find something on the net about what is in it. Is "General Aid" the actual name of the product? In the interim, you could start a salt treatment to the H-tank with the Dwarf Gourami since salt is a general aid also and we know what's in it. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml Start off with 1 teaspoon (level) per gallon (or 1 gram per liter), mixed with removed tank water and then slowly poured back into the tank. Do not pour the saline solution near the filter intake. This will bring it up to 0.1% After 12-24 hours, add another dose. This brings it up to 0.2%. After another 12-24 hours, add another dose. This brings it up to 0.3%. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Gourami wounded Hi, As a result of my 'former' Blue Gourami's aggression while nesting, the Dwarf Gourami was injured, it's a 1mm wound on the forhead. I'm afraid the wound will develop into something else if it wasn't treated. I have 3 medicines at home: * Green Malachite "spelling?" * "General Aid", ingredients are not mentioned on the bottle neither box. It's says it's for ALL common fish diseases like ick, sore spots, fin rot, torn fins, mouth and body fungus. Note the "ALL" here. * " Gill, fungus, parasie special", also doesn't mention effective ingredients. What do you suggest? I'm not planning to move the Dwarf Gourami to a hospital tank, it's obviously an injury not a disease. Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1485 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 10:07 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: hi

Alligator Snapping Turtle... unless there's another kind of alligator snapper out there. Reminds me of the oldies song, "My Ding-A-Ling" by Chuck Berry... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Ding-a-Ling Once while swimming cross turtle creek Man them snappers all around my feet Sure was hard swimming cross that thing with both hands holding my ding-a-ling-a-ling LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of deborahgd14 Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hi what is that? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "sibey_kiasu" <sibey_kiasu@...> wrote: > > any alligator snapper keeper here? > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1485 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 10:07 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28208	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

It doesn't have to spin fast to work. As long as it's turning... even at a snails pace, the filter will stay wet and keep the N-bacteria alive and feasting on any ammonia/nitrite in the water. You can lift the bio-wheel out of the little holders and clean the holders in case there is any algae/detritus building up in the holders that might be causing the bio-wheel to spin slower. They are too small for a Q-tip. I just use a tooth pick to kind of make sure there isn't any build up in the holders. Since you have a Bio-Wheel, I do have an article on my blog about my own Bio-Wheel and how I break it down for cleaning, etc. and how I modified the filter cartridge to get rid of the carbon and add additional filter poly pad for more mechanical/biological filtration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] bio filter my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1485 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 10:07 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28209	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

Over the years, I've seen many newbies, in forums, who would turn off their filters at night.. especially if the tank was in a bedroom, not realizing this was not a good thing to do. In the case of Noura, the internal filter should be run 24/7 and the over-powered powerhead can be run from time to time to keep the UGF clean... unless the modifications I suggested make it so it can be run 24/7 also. Noura, Something else I just thought about.. you could add an airpump powered line to the UGF and keep it running 24/7 to at least keep some water flowing through the UGF at all times and then only turn on the powerhead from time to time when you feel like it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 8:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter I'm wondering what would be the reason to turn the filter off at night. To save power? Well, apparently it is a humungous filter. But I wonder if conceivably the problem is noise, and if so, if hte problem could be solved fairly easily. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1485 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 10:07 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28210	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami wounded

"General Aid" is the product's name, it is from "Dr. Medi" a Chinese company, "not really reliable", but since the chinese medication covered our fish market, we rarely find the German ones. Qurestions about the salt: - Should I use sea salt, I bought a pound recently. Does the Iodine harm the fish or plants? - When I add the three doses, does EACH dose contain 1 tsp/gallon? or is this quantity for the ALL three doses. - in the pharmaceutical measurments, 3 tsp s = 1 table spoon, do you use that too? - Can I do PWC in the hospital bowl (about 2 G), will it stress the Gourami? it doesn't contain any filteration, only an air stone. Thanks, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:13 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Gourami wounded An injured fish should also be moved to a H-tank. Darwinism (survival of the fittest) will often cause other fish to harass a sick or injured fish. Even if you don't see this happening, the injured fish will have additional stress worrying about whether the other fish are planning an attack. Being by itself just gives it a little peace of mind that it can relax and get well. Who is the manufacturer of the "General Aid"? Maybe we can find something on the net about what is in it. Is "General Aid" the actual name of the product? In the interim, you could start a salt treatment to the H-tank with the Dwarf Gourami since salt is a general aid also and we know what's in it. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml Start off with 1 teaspoon (level) per gallon (or 1 gram per liter), mixed with removed tank water and then slowly poured back into the tank. Do not pour the saline solution near the filter intake. This will bring it up to 0.1% After 12-24 hours, add another dose. This brings it up to 0.2%. After another 12-24 hours, add another dose. This brings it up to 0.3%. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Gourami wounded Hi, As a result of my 'former' Blue Gourami's aggression while nesting, the Dwarf Gourami was injured, it's a 1mm wound on the forhead. I'm afraid the wound will develop into something else if it wasn't treated. I have 3 medicines at home: * Green Malachite "spelling?" * "General Aid", ingredients are not mentioned on the bottle neither box. It's says it's for ALL common fish diseases like ick, sore spots, fin rot, torn fins, mouth and body fungus. Note the "ALL" here. * " Gill, fungus, parasie special", also doesn't mention effective ingredients. What do you suggest? I'm not planning to move the Dwarf Gourami to a hospital tank, it's obviously an injury not a disease. Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1485 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 10:07 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28211	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

Dora, the reason of turning the UGF off at night was to give the fish a rest time without currents. I didn't no A THING about the Nitrogen cycle two months ago! I used to clean my filters real good, the more thoroughly, the better, that's what I thought! Now I'm turning the internal filter 24/7, except for meal times. Lenny, I just tried your idea, I LOVED it! The question is: The distance between the powerhead airline, and the discharge opening is 1 inch, is it enough to cause a good current inside to pull out sufficient water through the gravel? Of course, I will adjust the air pump at "HI" instead of "LOW" at night, to give the maximum movement in the UGF. All the best, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:32 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Over the years, I've seen many newbies, in forums, who would turn off their filters at night.. especially if the tank was in a bedroom, not realizing this was not a good thing to do. In the case of Noura, the internal filter should be run 24/7 and the over-powered powerhead can be run from time to time to keep the UGF clean... unless the modifications I suggested make it so it can be run 24/7 also. Noura, Something else I just thought about.. you could add an airpump powered line to the UGF and keep it running 24/7 to at least keep some water flowing through the UGF at all times and then only turn on the powerhead from time to time when you feel like it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 8:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter I'm wondering what would be the reason to turn the filter off at night. To save power? Well, apparently it is a humungous filter. But I wonder if conceivably the problem is noise, and if so, if hte problem could be solved fairly easily. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

An airline powered UGF isn't the best thing so you should still run the powerhead from time to time so it will suck the detritus through the UGF better but the airline powered UGF will at least keep fresh water flowing over the gravel and filter media at all times to keep the N-bacteria alive and it will also help with the biological filtration that is needed for your overstocked tank. Running both the UGF with the airline power and the internal filter 24/7 will keep the water much better for your fish. Then maybe a couple of times a day, you can turn on the powerhead to really suck the detritus down through the gravel and UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 6:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Dora, the reason of turning the UGF off at night was to give the fish a rest time without currents. I didn't no A THING about the Nitrogen cycle two months ago! I used to clean my filters real good, the more thoroughly, the better, that's what I thought! Now I'm turning the internal filter 24/7, except for meal times. Lenny, I just tried your idea, I LOVED it! The question is: The distance between the powerhead airline, and the discharge opening is 1 inch, is it enough to cause a good current inside to pull out sufficient water through the gravel? Of course, I will adjust the air pump at "HI" instead of "LOW" at night, to give the maximum movement in the UGF. All the best, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:32 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Over the years, I've seen many newbies, in forums, who would turn off their filters at night.. especially if the tank was in a bedroom, not realizing this was not a good thing to do. In the case of Noura, the internal filter should be run 24/7 and the over-powered powerhead can be run from time to time to keep the UGF clean... unless the modifications I suggested make it so it can be run 24/7 also. Noura, Something else I just thought about.. you could add an airpump powered line to the UGF and keep it running 24/7 to at least keep some water flowing through the UGF at all times and then only turn on the powerhead from time to time when you feel like it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 8:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter I'm wondering what would be the reason to turn the filter off at night. To save power? Well, apparently it is a humungous filter. But I wonder if conceivably the problem is noise, and if so, if hte problem could be solved fairly easily. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1486 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 6:29 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1486 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 6:29 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28213	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami wounded

I just did some Googling and I can find a product with the brand name of Rid-All General Aid from a Chinese company called hongtai http://www.hongtai.com.sg/frames/genaid.html but I also saw the same product sold under another company name so they may package it under several different names http://www.anp-aquarium.com/Aquarium%20Remedy/Aquarium_Remedy_AM-162.html , maybe including yours, Dr. Medi. I wasn't able to find anything about the ingredients yet. This eBay page http://cgi.ebay.es/RID-ALL-GENERAL-AID-ACRIFLAVINE-FISH-REMEDY_W0QQitemZ1902 06797851QQihZ009QQcategoryZ3212QQcmdZViewItem has this: Active ingredients: Neutralized Flavine B.P.C. (Acriflavine) with trace elements If you are able to see the photos on any of the above pages, you may be able to identify your product better as it may be the same thing but private labeled for "Dr. Medi". Here is Kordon's full description about Acriflavine - http://www.novalek.com/kordon/Acriflavine/index.htm From your salt questions, I can see you did not read that article link I sent about using Salt. Each dose will be 1 teaspoon/gallon. Yes, a level tablespoon is equal to three level teaspoons. Yes, you should still do PWC's... depending on the med's instructions. With salt only in a 2G H-tank, I'd do a 50% PWC every day since it's not filtered OR you could take a piece of filter media from one of your cycled filters and put it over the air stone which will help cycle the water in the H-tank. Better yet, you should probably make a DIY sponge filter that you could set up in the H-tank as needed. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_spongefilter.php or http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 6:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Gourami wounded "General Aid" is the product's name, it is from "Dr. Medi" a Chinese company, "not really reliable", but since the chinese medication covered our fish market, we rarely find the German ones. Qurestions about the salt: - Should I use sea salt, I bought a pound recently. Does the Iodine harm the fish or plants? - When I add the three doses, does EACH dose contain 1 tsp/gallon? or is this quantity for the ALL three doses. - in the pharmaceutical measurments, 3 tsp s = 1 table spoon, do you use that too? - Can I do PWC in the hospital bowl (about 2 G), will it stress the Gourami? it doesn't contain any filteration, only an air stone. Thanks, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:13 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Gourami wounded An injured fish should also be moved to a H-tank. Darwinism (survival of the fittest) will often cause other fish to harass a sick or injured fish. Even if you don't see this happening, the injured fish will have additional stress worrying about whether the other fish are planning an attack. Being by itself just gives it a little peace of mind that it can relax and get well. Who is the manufacturer of the "General Aid"? Maybe we can find something on the net about what is in it. Is "General Aid" the actual name of the product? In the interim, you could start a salt treatment to the H-tank with the Dwarf Gourami since salt is a general aid also and we know what's in it. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml Start off with 1 teaspoon (level) per gallon (or 1 gram per liter), mixed with removed tank water and then slowly poured back into the tank. Do not pour the saline solution near the filter intake. This will bring it up to 0.1% After 12-24 hours, add another dose. This brings it up to 0.2%. After another 12-24 hours, add another dose. This brings it up to 0.3%. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Gourami wounded Hi, As a result of my 'former' Blue Gourami's aggression while nesting, the Dwarf Gourami was injured, it's a 1mm wound on the forhead. I'm afraid the wound will develop into something else if it wasn't treated. I have 3 medicines at home: * Green Malachite "spelling?" * "General Aid", ingredients are not mentioned on the bottle neither box. It's says it's for ALL common fish diseases like ick, sore spots, fin rot, torn fins, mouth and body fungus. Note the "ALL" here. * " Gill, fungus, parasie special", also doesn't mention effective ingredients. What do you suggest? I'm not planning to move the Dwarf Gourami to a hospital tank, it's obviously an injury not a disease. Noura No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1485 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 10:07 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1486 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 6:29 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1487 - Release Date: 6/6/2008 8:01 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28214	From: greyhabit	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: New Member Intro

Hello, I live in mid Wales, UK. I keep mainly small adult Catfish in a couple of large tanks. I have been keeping fish for just over 3 years, with only one imported infection from stock bought from a pet supermarket in my early days. My little one wants a fish tank of her own in her small bedroom, so it looks like I will soon be buying the ever fashionable BiOrb fish bowl, either 30L or 60L. If any of you have any views, comments or suggestions on the suitability of these bowls for small tropical catfish, I would be very interested. Best Wishes, Max

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28215	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Intro

I'm guessing you are thinking about Corydoras or Otocinclus'? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyhabit Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 11:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member Intro Hello, I live in mid Wales, UK. I keep mainly small adult Catfish in a couple of large tanks. I have been keeping fish for just over 3 years, with only one imported infection from stock bought from a pet supermarket in my early days. My little one wants a fish tank of her own in her small bedroom, so it looks like I will soon be buying the ever fashionable BiOrb fish bowl, either 30L or 60L. If any of you have any views, comments or suggestions on the suitability of these bowls for small tropical catfish, I would be very interested. Best Wishes, Max No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1487 - Release Date: 6/6/2008 8:01 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28216	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami wounded

Thank you so much for the time you spent Googling for me, unfortunatly, none of the these links contained a photo that is similar to my product, not in bottle shape, nor in fish photos on the bottle. I think I'll stick to the salt treatment. Will keep you updated. All the best, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 8:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Gourami wounded I just did some Googling and I can find a product with the brand name of Rid-All General Aid from a Chinese company called hongtai http://www.hongtai.com.sg/frames/genaid.html but I also saw the same product sold under another company name so they may package it under several different names http://www.anp-aquarium.com/Aquarium%20Remedy/Aquarium_Remedy_AM-162.html , maybe including yours, Dr. Medi. I wasn't able to find anything about the ingredients yet. This eBay page http://cgi.ebay.es/RID-ALL-GENERAL-AID-ACRIFLAVINE-FISH-REMEDY_W0QQitemZ1902 06797851QQihZ009QQcategoryZ3212QQcmdZViewItem has this: Active ingredients: Neutralized Flavine B.P.C. (Acriflavine) with trace elements If you are able to see the photos on any of the above pages, you may be able to identify your product better as it may be the same thing but private labeled for "Dr. Medi". Here is Kordon's full description about Acriflavine - http://www.novalek.com/kordon/Acriflavine/index.htm From your salt questions, I can see you did not read that article link I sent about using Salt. Each dose will be 1 teaspoon/gallon. Yes, a level tablespoon is equal to three level teaspoons. Yes, you should still do PWC's... depending on the med's instructions. With salt only in a 2G H-tank, I'd do a 50% PWC every day since it's not filtered OR you could take a piece of filter media from one of your cycled filters and put it over the air stone which will help cycle the water in the H-tank. Better yet, you should probably make a DIY sponge filter that you could set up in the H-tank as needed. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_spongefilter.php or http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28217	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

A followup on recharging of filter on water well.  First I was mistaken as to the kind of filter that was on my water well.  Last year and in previous years when the well filter was recharged I was not keeping fish and did not pay that much attention to what was being done to the well.  It turns out that the filter is not an iron filter after all, but is a acid neutralizing filter.  It is recharged by adding fresh limestone that is slowly dissolved by the acid water in my area.  I am on the border line for the need of an iron filter.    The filter was recharged Thursday so I waited a couple of days to let the water stabilize and tested it today, Saturday.  The pH out of the tap was 7.4.  This is consistent with my aquarium water witch is 7.4-7.5.  The KH was previously 6 dKH, it went to 7 dKH.  The GH was previously 7 dGH, it went to 10 dGH.   The water did not change that much since the filter had not completely depleted the existing limestone.  It will probably stabilize to be close to what it previously was.   Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA 70442 -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and this causes staining in the tubs and toilets.  Each year I have a water well service come and recharge the filter.  They are coming next week.  In the past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter was recharged  (other than it was safe for drinking).  Since the last recharging I have set up aquariums.  My question is should I expect any change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)?  Of course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28218	From: greyhabit	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Intro

Hi Lenny, Nice of you to respond. Yes, Mainly Cory's and Otto's. Any suggestions re: stocking density per 30L ? Thanks Mate :) Max --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm guessing you are thinking about Corydoras or Otocinclus'? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyhabit > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 11:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member Intro > > Hello, > > I live in mid Wales, UK. I keep mainly small adult Catfish in a couple of > large tanks. I have been keeping fish for just over 3 years, with only one > imported infection from stock bought from a pet supermarket in my early > days. > > My little one wants a fish tank of her own in her small bedroom, so it looks > like I will soon be buying the ever fashionable BiOrb fish bowl, either 30L > or 60L. If any of you have any views, comments or suggestions on the > suitability of these bowls for small tropical catfish, I would be very > interested. > > Best Wishes, > > Max > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1487 - Release Date: 6/6/2008 > 8:01 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28219	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

Jimmy, How old is your home? Do you still have metal plumbing (copper, etc.) or one of the plastics (pvc, pe, etc.)? While making the water a little harder may or may not be needed for your fish, it may not be needed for you/your home.... although, personally, I prefer harder water to soft water anyhow. Do you have a by-pass valve to get water from your well prior to it going through the limestone hardening system? You should do a two-day baseline test on both waters to see how they do. You also want to check your GH and KH during these baseline tests. \\Steve// and Ray (and any others), Is limestone the best thing to use for raising the hardness in aquaria? I've never had to do it so I've never done much research on the issue. My first thoughts is that it wouldn't be but I'll wait to see what you guys (and others) say. I know most of the forum threads that I've read recommend things like crushed coral and if limestone was a good way, it seems I would have read that somewhere since limestone has to be easier and cheaper to get compared to crushed coral. The snip from the second article does mention limestone as one way to increase GH. I did a quick Google and found this info from known reliable sites... http://fish.mongabay.com/chemistry.htm Changing the Water Hardness: Water hardness can be manipulated in several ways. To make the water softer, the water can be filtered through peat moss or filtered through a reverse osmosis system. Ion exchange resins also can be used to lower the water hardness. Boiling water for a period of time can also reduce its hardness. To harden the water, filter the water through dolomite or crushed coral until the desired hardness is reached. http://www.sydneycichlid.com/aquarium-hardness.htm How to Harden Water which is too Soft: The simplest way to increase the general hardness is to incorporate calcareous material (e.g. limestone, crushed marble, lime sand) into the décor or filter. This will slowly release calcium carbonate into the water. Carbonate hardness can also be raised through the gradual addition of sodium bicarbonate. Pool salt, non-iodized salt Rift Lake Salt additives (e.g. Seachem products, sera gH - kH plus, sera mineral salt etc.) and some bottled hard mineral water (e.g. Evian) can also be added. Some aquarists even add a small percentage of sea water to the aquarium (around 2%). Proprietary treatments for raising the level of hardness, in the form of powders (e.g. kH Generator), are also available through the local fish shops. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question A followup on recharging of filter on water well. First I was mistaken as to the kind of filter that was on my water well. Last year and in previous years when the well filter was recharged I was not keeping fish and did not pay that much attention to what was being done to the well. It turns out that the filter is not an iron filter after all, but is a acid neutralizing filter. It is recharged by adding fresh limestone that is slowly dissolved by the acid water in my area. I am on the border line for the need of an iron filter. The filter was recharged Thursday so I waited a couple of days to let the water stabilize and tested it today, Saturday. The pH out of the tap was 7.4. This is consistent with my aquarium water witch is 7.4-7.5. The KH was previously 6 dKH, it went to 7 dKH. The GH was previously 7 dGH, it went to 10 dGH. The water did not change that much since the filter had not completely depleted the existing limestone. It will probably stabilize to be close to what it previously was. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA 70442 -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and this causes staining in the tubs and toilets. Each year I have a water well service come and recharge the filter. They are coming next week. In the past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter was recharged (other than it was safe for drinking). Since the last recharging I have set up aquariums. My question is should I expect any change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)? Of course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 11:17 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28220	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

That certainly is good news. Now you will really know when the filter needs to be recharged <g>. I do have a question here though, do you have a tap between the well and the filter? This could come in handy for a water source should you decide to keep some of the South American cichlids, and other fish, that like really acid water. This will also give you an idea of how much buffering the limestone is offering you, if you know the pH, KH and GH prior to the filter. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 10:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question A followup on recharging of filter on water well.  First I was mistaken as to the kind of filter that was on my water well.  Last year and in previous years when the well filter was recharged I was not keeping fish and did not pay that much attention to what was being done to the well.  It turns out that the filter is not an iron filter after all, but is a acid neutralizing filter.  It is recharged by adding fresh limestone that is slowly dissolved by the acid water in my area.  I am on the border line for the need of an iron filter.    The filter was recharged Thursday so I waited a couple of days to let the water stabilize and tested it today, Saturday.  The pH out of the tap was 7.4.  This is consistent with my aquarium water witch is 7.4-7.5.  The KH was previously 6 dKH, it went to 7 dKH.  The GH was previously 7 dGH, it went to 10 dGH.   The water did not change that much since the filter had not completely depleted the existing limestone.  It will probably stabilize to be close to what it previously was.   Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA 70442 -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and this causes staining in the tubs and toilets.  Each year I have a water well service come and recharge the filter.  They are coming next week.  In the past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter was recharged  (other than it was safe for drinking).  Since the last recharging I have set up aquariums.  My question is should I expect any change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)?  Of course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Intro

Well, 30L (8G) isn't much water to work with so you would be forced to go with otos which are the smaller species in general and you would want a shoal of five or six which would fully stock the tank. Here's a long article about Otos... http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/shanesworld.php?article_id=178 (half way down is where it gets more into the hobbyist) Here is PlanetCatfish's page of Oto profiles/care sheets... http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/genus.php?genus_id=49#107 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyhabit Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 8:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Member Intro Hi Lenny, Nice of you to respond. Yes, Mainly Cory's and Otto's. Any suggestions re: stocking density per 30L ? Thanks Mate :) Max --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm guessing you are thinking about Corydoras or Otocinclus'? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of greyhabit > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 11:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member Intro > > Hello, > > I live in mid Wales, UK. I keep mainly small adult Catfish in a couple of > large tanks. I have been keeping fish for just over 3 years, with only one > imported infection from stock bought from a pet supermarket in my > early days. > > My little one wants a fish tank of her own in her small bedroom, so it looks > like I will soon be buying the ever fashionable BiOrb fish bowl, either 30L > or 60L. If any of you have any views, comments or suggestions on the > suitability of these bowls for small tropical catfish, I would be very > interested. > > Best Wishes, > > Max > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 11:17 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28222	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

Thanks Lenny & Steve,   The house is about 15 years old.  It has pvc pipe in all of the areas that I can seen which is most most if not all.  I can bypass the filter, although it will all be cold water.  I will do a pH, KH and GH test on the bypassed water to see what effect the filter has.  I had planned on using the unfiltered water when I set up the aquariums, but I took water samples of filtered and non-filtered water to the nearest LFS in Mandeville, LA and after testing both they advised me to use the filtered water.  This was last Nov.  I have now learned, through this group, that the LFS advise may not have been reliable.   The water well service tech told me Thursday that most of the homes in this area that did not have acid neutralizing filters on their wells had problems with their plumbing.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2008 10:26:38 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question Jimmy, How old is your home? Do you still have metal plumbing (copper, etc.) or one of the plastics (pvc, pe, etc.)? While making the water a little harder may or may not be needed for your fish, it may not be needed for you/your home..... although, personally, I prefer harder water to soft water anyhow. Do you have a by-pass valve to get water from your well prior to it going through the limestone hardening system? You should do a two-day baseline test on both waters to see how they do. You also want to check your GH and KH during these baseline tests. \\Steve// and Ray (and any others), Is limestone the best thing to use for raising the hardness in aquaria? I've never had to do it so I've never done much research on the issue. My first thoughts is that it wouldn't be but I'll wait to see what you guys (and others) say. I know most of the forum threads that I've read recommend things like crushed coral and if limestone was a good way, it seems I would have read that somewhere since limestone has to be easier and cheaper to get compared to crushed coral. The snip from the second article does mention limestone as one way to increase GH. I did a quick Google and found this info from known reliable sites... http://fish. mongabay. com/chemistry. htm Changing the Water Hardness: Water hardness can be manipulated in several ways. To make the water softer, the water can be filtered through peat moss or filtered through a reverse osmosis system. Ion exchange resins also can be used to lower the water hardness. Boiling water for a period of time can also reduce its hardness. To harden the water, filter the water through dolomite or crushed coral until the desired hardness is reached. http://www.sydneyci chlid.com/ aquarium- hardness. htm How to Harden Water which is too Soft: The simplest way to increase the general hardness is to incorporate calcareous material (e.g.. limestone, crushed marble, lime sand) into the décor or filter. This will slowly release calcium carbonate into the water. Carbonate hardness can also be raised through the gradual addition of sodium bicarbonate. Pool salt, non-iodized salt Rift Lake Salt additives (e.g. Seachem products, sera gH - kH plus, sera mineral salt etc.) and some bottled hard mineral water (e.g. Evian) can also be added. Some aquarists even add a small percentage of sea water to the aquarium (around 2%). Proprietary treatments for raising the level of hardness, in the form of powders (e.g. kH Generator), are also available through the local fish shops. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:11 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question A followup on recharging of filter on water well. First I was mistaken as to the kind of filter that was on my water well. Last year and in previous years when the well filter was recharged I was not keeping fish and did not pay that much attention to what was being done to the well. It turns out that the filter is not an iron filter after all, but is a acid neutralizing filter. It is recharged by adding fresh limestone that is slowly dissolved by the acid water in my area. I am on the border line for the need of an iron filter. The filter was recharged Thursday so I waited a couple of days to let the water stabilize and tested it today, Saturday. The pH out of the tap was 7.4. This is consistent with my aquarium water witch is 7.4-7.5. The KH was previously 6 dKH, it went to 7 dKH. The GH was previously 7 dGH, it went to 10 dGH. The water did not change that much since the filter had not completely depleted the existing limestone. It will probably stabilize to be close to what it previously was. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA 70442 -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and this causes staining in the tubs and toilets. Each year I have a water well service come and recharge the filter. They are coming next week. In the past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter was recharged (other than it was safe for drinking). Since the last recharging I have set up aquariums. My question is should I expect any change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)? Of course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 11:17 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28223	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Intro

Unless you go with pygmy corys. Then those would be the smaller of the two, and my favorite. ;) Kate --- On Sat, 6/7/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New Member Intro > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 7, 2008, 9:44 AM > Well, 30L (8G) isn't much water to work with so you > would be forced to go > with otos which are the smaller species in general and you > would want a > shoal of five or six which would fully stock the tank. > > Here's a long article about Otos... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/shanesworld.php?article_id=178 > (half way down is where it gets more into the hobbyist) > > Here is PlanetCatfish's page of Oto profiles/care > sheets... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/genus.php?genus_id=49#107 > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyhabit > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 8:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Member Intro > > Hi Lenny, > > Nice of you to respond. Yes, Mainly Cory's and > Otto's. > > Any suggestions re: stocking density per 30L ? > > Thanks Mate :) > > Max > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I'm guessing you are thinking about Corydoras or > Otocinclus'? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of greyhabit > > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 11:52 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member Intro > > > > Hello, > > > > I live in mid Wales, UK. I keep mainly small adult > Catfish in a > couple of > > large tanks. I have been keeping fish for just over 3 > years, with > only one > > imported infection from stock bought from a pet > supermarket in my > > early days. > > > > My little one wants a fish tank of her own in her > small bedroom, so > it looks > > like I will soon be buying the ever fashionable BiOrb > fish bowl, > either 30L > > or 60L. If any of you have any views, comments or > suggestions on the > > suitability of these bowls for small tropical catfish, > I would be very > > interested. > > > > Best Wishes, > > > > Max > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release > Date: 6/7/2008 > 11:17 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> > ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. > , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28224	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

For older homes with metal plumbing, having acid (low pH) water flowing through the pipes over the course of many years will cause corrosion of the pipes. This is why public water utilities add buffers to raise the pH so the water doesn't corrode the public pipes. Since your home is newer and has plastic, the water, whether acid or basic, should not affect them. In fact, the harder water may cause build-up inside the pipes over a long period of time which could cause water flow (plumbing) problems. I've seen pipes down here in N'Awlins in some of these 100+ year old homes where the 1" pipe was reduced to a trickle due to calcium/mineral buildup inside the pipes. Remember that while your filter supplier/repair company may be giving you good advice, whenever I get advice from someone who may benefit financially from their advice, I always double/triple check the advice.. this includes the pet store, LFS and doctors too! Since it's only a limestone filter system, I'm hoping they don't charge very much to "recharge" it. Limestone is pretty cheap stuff. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 10:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question Thanks Lenny & Steve, The house is about 15 years old. It has pvc pipe in all of the areas that I can seen which is most most if not all. I can bypass the filter, although it will all be cold water. I will do a pH, KH and GH test on the bypassed water to see what effect the filter has. I had planned on using the unfiltered water when I set up the aquariums, but I took water samples of filtered and non-filtered water to the nearest LFS in Mandeville, LA and after testing both they advised me to use the filtered water. This was last Nov. I have now learned, through this group, that the LFS advise may not have been reliable. The water well service tech told me Thursday that most of the homes in this area that did not have acid neutralizing filters on their wells had problems with their plumbing. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2008 10:26:38 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question Jimmy, How old is your home? Do you still have metal plumbing (copper, etc.) or one of the plastics (pvc, pe, etc.)? While making the water a little harder may or may not be needed for your fish, it may not be needed for you/your home..... although, personally, I prefer harder water to soft water anyhow. Do you have a by-pass valve to get water from your well prior to it going through the limestone hardening system? You should do a two-day baseline test on both waters to see how they do. You also want to check your GH and KH during these baseline tests. \\Steve// and Ray (and any others), Is limestone the best thing to use for raising the hardness in aquaria? I've never had to do it so I've never done much research on the issue. My first thoughts is that it wouldn't be but I'll wait to see what you guys (and others) say. I know most of the forum threads that I've read recommend things like crushed coral and if limestone was a good way, it seems I would have read that somewhere since limestone has to be easier and cheaper to get compared to crushed coral. The snip from the second article does mention limestone as one way to increase GH. I did a quick Google and found this info from known reliable sites... http://fish. mongabay. com/chemistry. htm Changing the Water Hardness: Water hardness can be manipulated in several ways. To make the water softer, the water can be filtered through peat moss or filtered through a reverse osmosis system. Ion exchange resins also can be used to lower the water hardness. Boiling water for a period of time can also reduce its hardness. To harden the water, filter the water through dolomite or crushed coral until the desired hardness is reached. http://www.sydneyci chlid.com/ aquarium- hardness. htm How to Harden Water which is too Soft: The simplest way to increase the general hardness is to incorporate calcareous material (e.g.. limestone, crushed marble, lime sand) into the décor or filter. This will slowly release calcium carbonate into the water. Carbonate hardness can also be raised through the gradual addition of sodium bicarbonate. Pool salt, non-iodized salt Rift Lake Salt additives (e.g. Seachem products, sera gH - kH plus, sera mineral salt etc.) and some bottled hard mineral water (e.g. Evian) can also be added. Some aquarists even add a small percentage of sea water to the aquarium (around 2%). Proprietary treatments for raising the level of hardness, in the form of powders (e.g. kH Generator), are also available through the local fish shops. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:11 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question A followup on recharging of filter on water well. First I was mistaken as to the kind of filter that was on my water well. Last year and in previous years when the well filter was recharged I was not keeping fish and did not pay that much attention to what was being done to the well. It turns out that the filter is not an iron filter after all, but is a acid neutralizing filter. It is recharged by adding fresh limestone that is slowly dissolved by the acid water in my area. I am on the border line for the need of an iron filter. The filter was recharged Thursday so I waited a couple of days to let the water stabilize and tested it today, Saturday. The pH out of the tap was 7.4. This is consistent with my aquarium water witch is 7.4-7.5. The KH was previously 6 dKH, it went to 7 dKH. The GH was previously 7 dGH, it went to 10 dGH. The water did not change that much since the filter had not completely depleted the existing limestone. It will probably stabilize to be close to what it previously was. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA 70442 -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and this causes staining in the tubs and toilets. Each year I have a water well service come and recharge the filter. They are coming next week. In the past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter was recharged (other than it was safe for drinking). Since the last recharging I have set up aquariums. My question is should I expect any change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)? Of course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 11:17 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28225	From: Paula Brown	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Salt Needed?

I have a 10 gallon tank, live plants, that I have had running for a couple of months now. I feed it with flake food daily and all my API tests are running at zero with a pH of 7.8. (I started it with a filter from an established tank along with some gravel from the same tank). I just cannot figure out what fish to put in there. I was going to go with some fancy guppies but I already have a 29 gallon guppy tank. I am looking for something different without spending a fortune on them. Today I went to a good LFS and found some cute fish - mollies, swords and platy's. Not sure why I never considered them before. The owner's son (an adult) said that I wouldn't need to add salt with them. Now I haven't paid a lot of attention to these discussions before because I have never had these types of fish nor really desired them, but I would swear that I have read that they like some salt. Am I right? If so, how much salt do they want? I would prefer not adding salt because I like having that backup in case I were to ever experience Ich. The guy suggested getting four of them and said that I would be overrun with babies eventually. I do have a 55 gallon planted community tank with barbs, tetras, female bettas, and a pleco. I am guessing that if the babies get to be too much, I can add them there like I do my guppy babies. They become food, which is sad, but I have never had a problem with too many that I would want to sell. It is just a couple here and there. I already have a ten gallon with a male betta, some white clouds and a couple of small cory's in it. I would like something different for this tank. Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28226	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Salt Needed?

Paula, Pretty much all fish can deal with a very wide range of conditions. How well they do in them, though, can be a different question. Many livebearers available in the hobby had origins, a long, long time ago, in environments that had contact with marine water and/or water that was hard. This is why it is often suggested to add salt to the water that they are kept in. However, there are livebearers that come from softer, virtually salt free environments as well. The addition of salt for these species would not benefit from it. Now, as for those fish found in the store, it depends on where they are from, what type of water they were bred and raised in. If they are from Florida farms, they would tend to come from harder water of a higher pH. If they are imported from the far east, they would tend to be raised in softer, more acidic water. The question then, would be what kind of water do you have, and, by extrapolation, what kind of water the shop has that they are being kept in. You are probably perfectly OK to keep them in water with no salt added. They will do fine. Generally, the recommended ratio of livebearers is one male to two or three females. If you have one pair or two pair of the same species, the males may worry the females too much, which may shorten the life of the females. The males may also "compete" against one another, leading to undesirable results for the weaker of the two. Since you are talking about only a 10 gallon tank here, one trio of any of the suggested fish would be plenty for the tank, when you consider that eventually there will be fry of various ages also living in the tank prior to your ability to remove them. As for using the excess fish as food, fear not. The best food for any fish is another fish. Mom Nature tends not to be so squeamish as humans are, and this is the natural order of things. Many breeders keep fish just for this purpose, ridding themselves of excess fry and fry that does not measure up to what their goals are. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 1:51 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Salt Needed? I have a 10 gallon tank, live plants, that I have had running for a couple of months now. I feed it with flake food daily and all my API tests are running at zero with a pH of 7.8. (I started it with a filter from an established tank along with some gravel from the same tank). I just cannot figure out what fish to put in there. I was going to go with some fancy guppies but I already have a 29 gallon guppy tank. I am looking for something different without spending a fortune on them. Today I went to a good LFS and found some cute fish - mollies, swords and platy's. Not sure why I never considered them before. The owner's son (an adult) said that I wouldn't need to add salt with them. Now I haven't paid a lot of attention to these discussions before because I have never had these types of fish nor really desired them, but I would swear that I have read that they like some salt. Am I right? If so, how much salt do they want? I would prefer not adding salt because I like having that backup in case I were to ever experience Ich. The guy suggested getting four of them and said that I would be overrun with babies eventually. I do have a 55 gallon planted community tank with barbs, tetras, female bettas, and a pleco. I am guessing that if the babies get to be too much, I can add them there like I do my guppy babies. They become food, which is sad, but I have never had a problem with too many that I would want to sell. It is just a couple here and there. I already have a ten gallon with a male betta, some white clouds and a couple of small cory's in it. I would like something different for this tank. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28227	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

Lenny, Limestone of course would be the cheapest to use to raise the hardness, but crushed coral would dissolve faster, followed by dolomite although I don't know if these two are used commercially in such a hardening system. With crushed coral though, you would be able to use your water at a faster flow rate per hour, yet still get the same or better results as limestone at a slower flow rate. Like you, I have never needed to use it as an in-line house unit with my plumbing (although I've used the crushed coral and dolomite in those tanks containing Rift Lake Cichlids to boost the hardness for them). It would seem that limestone would be easier to use and more conveniently obtained. I would also tend to think that if the unit is engineered to be large enough, using limestone would adequately harden the water at most any normal flow rates. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Jimmy, > > How old is your home? Do you still have metal plumbing (copper, etc.) or > one of the plastics (pvc, pe, etc.)? While making the water a little harder > may or may not be needed for your fish, it may not be needed for you/your > home.... although, personally, I prefer harder water to soft water anyhow. > Do you have a by-pass valve to get water from your well prior to it going > through the limestone hardening system? You should do a two-day baseline > test on both waters to see how they do. You also want to check your GH and > KH during these baseline tests. > > \\Steve// and Ray (and any others), > > Is limestone the best thing to use for raising the hardness in aquaria? > I've never had to do it so I've never done much research on the issue. My > first thoughts is that it wouldn't be but I'll wait to see what you guys > (and others) say. I know most of the forum threads that I've read recommend > things like crushed coral and if limestone was a good way, it seems I would > have read that somewhere since limestone has to be easier and cheaper to get > compared to crushed coral. The snip from the second article does mention > limestone as one way to increase GH. > > I did a quick Google and found this info from known reliable sites... > > http://fish.mongabay.com/chemistry.htm > Changing the Water Hardness: > Water hardness can be manipulated in several ways. To make the water softer, > the water can be filtered through peat moss or filtered through a reverse > osmosis system. Ion exchange resins also can be used to lower the water > hardness. Boiling water for a period of time can also reduce its hardness. > To harden the water, filter the water through dolomite or crushed coral > until the desired hardness is reached. > > http://www.sydneycichlid.com/aquarium-hardness.htm > How to Harden Water which is too Soft: > The simplest way to increase the general hardness is to incorporate > calcareous material (e.g. limestone, crushed marble, lime sand) into the > décor or filter. This will slowly release calcium carbonate into the water. > Carbonate hardness can also be raised through the gradual addition of sodium > bicarbonate. > > Pool salt, non-iodized salt Rift Lake Salt additives (e.g. Seachem products, > sera gH - kH plus, sera mineral salt etc.) and some bottled hard mineral > water (e.g. Evian) can also be added. Some aquarists even add a small > percentage of sea water to the aquarium (around 2%). > > Proprietary treatments for raising the level of hardness, in the form of > powders (e.g. kH Generator), are also available through the local fish > shops. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > A followup on recharging of filter on water well. First I was mistaken as > to the kind of filter that was on my water well. Last year and in previous > years when the well filter was recharged I was not keeping fish and did not > pay that much attention to what was being done to the well. It turns out > that the filter is not an iron filter after all, but is a acid neutralizing > filter. It is recharged by adding fresh limestone that is slowly dissolved > by the acid water in my area. I am on the border line for the need of an > iron filter. > > The filter was recharged Thursday so I waited a couple of days to let the > water stabilize and tested it today, Saturday. The pH out of the tap was > 7.4. This is consistent with my aquarium water witch is 7.4-7.5. The KH > was previously 6 dKH, it went to 7 dKH. The GH was previously 7 dGH, it > went to 10 dGH. > > The water did not change that much since the filter had not completely > depleted the existing limestone. It will probably stabilize to be close to > what it previously was. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA 70442 > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. > Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the > iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really > just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need > to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are > using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be > OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly > innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. > > Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if > he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. > The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and > this causes staining in the tubs and toilets. Each year I have a water well > service come and recharge the filter. They are coming next week. In the > past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the > filter was recharged (other than it was safe for drinking). Since the last > recharging I have set up aquariums. My question is should I expect any > change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)? Of > course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 > 11:17 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28228	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Replacing internal filter

LOL! Well, I can see thinking that! Chuckle. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Dora, the reason of turning the UGF off at night was to give the fish a rest time without currents. I didn't no A THING about the Nitrogen cycle two months ago! I used to clean my filters real good, the more thoroughly, the better, that's what I thought! Now I'm turning the internal filter 24/7, except for meal times. Lenny, I just tried your idea, I LOVED it! The question is: The distance between the powerhead airline, and the discharge opening is 1 inch, is it enough to cause a good current inside to pull out sufficient water through the gravel? Of course, I will adjust the air pump at "HI" instead of "LOW" at night, to give the maximum movement in the UGF. All the best, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:32 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter Over the years, I've seen many newbies, in forums, who would turn off their filters at night.. especially if the tank was in a bedroom, not realizing this was not a good thing to do. In the case of Noura, the internal filter should be run 24/7 and the over-powered powerhead can be run from time to time to keep the UGF clean... unless the modifications I suggested make it so it can be run 24/7 also. Noura, Something else I just thought about.. you could add an airpump powered line to the UGF and keep it running 24/7 to at least keep some water flowing through the UGF at all times and then only turn on the powerhead from time to time when you feel like it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 8:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replacing internal filter I'm wondering what would be the reason to turn the filter off at night. To save power? Well, apparently it is a humungous filter. But I wonder if conceivably the problem is noise, and if so, if hte problem could be solved fairly easily. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1487 - Release Date: 6/6/2008 8:01 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28229	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

Thanks for the response, I tested the unfiltered water using an API Liquid test.  The pH was 6.0 minus.  It is the lowest on the color chart so I don't know for sure how acid it is.  The KH is less than 1, the GH is 2 dKH.  I'll test it again in 24 and 48 hours.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2008 11:14:09 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question For older homes with metal plumbing, having acid (low pH) water flowing through the pipes over the course of many years will cause corrosion of the pipes. This is why public water utilities add buffers to raise the pH so the water doesn't corrode the public pipes. Since your home is newer and has plastic, the water, whether acid or basic, should not affect them. In fact, the harder water may cause build-up inside the pipes over a long period of time which could cause water flow (plumbing) problems. I've seen pipes down here in N'Awlins in some of these 100+ year old homes where the 1" pipe was reduced to a trickle due to calcium/mineral buildup inside the pipes. Remember that while your filter supplier/repair company may be giving you good advice, whenever I get advice from someone who may benefit financially from their advice, I always double/triple check the advice.. this includes the pet store, LFS and doctors too! Since it's only a limestone filter system, I'm hoping they don't charge very much to "recharge" it. Limestone is pretty cheap stuff. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 10:47 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question Thanks Lenny & Steve, The house is about 15 years old. It has pvc pipe in all of the areas that I can seen which is most most if not all. I can bypass the filter, although it will all be cold water. I will do a pH, KH and GH test on the bypassed water to see what effect the filter has. I had planned on using the unfiltered water when I set up the aquariums, but I took water samples of filtered and non-filtered water to the nearest LFS in Mandeville, LA and after testing both they advised me to use the filtered water. This was last Nov. I have now learned, through this group, that the LFS advise may not have been reliable. The water well service tech told me Thursday that most of the homes in this area that did not have acid neutralizing filters on their wells had problems with their plumbing. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2008 10:26:38 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question Jimmy, How old is your home? Do you still have metal plumbing (copper, etc.) or one of the plastics (pvc, pe, etc.)? While making the water a little harder may or may not be needed for your fish, it may not be needed for you/your home..... although, personally, I prefer harder water to soft water anyhow. Do you have a by-pass valve to get water from your well prior to it going through the limestone hardening system? You should do a two-day baseline test on both waters to see how they do. You also want to check your GH and KH during these baseline tests. \\Steve// and Ray (and any others), Is limestone the best thing to use for raising the hardness in aquaria? I've never had to do it so I've never done much research on the issue. My first thoughts is that it wouldn't be but I'll wait to see what you guys (and others) say. I know most of the forum threads that I've read recommend things like crushed coral and if limestone was a good way, it seems I would have read that somewhere since limestone has to be easier and cheaper to get compared to crushed coral. The snip from the second article does mention limestone as one way to increase GH. I did a quick Google and found this info from known reliable sites... http://fish. mongabay. com/chemistry. htm Changing the Water Hardness: Water hardness can be manipulated in several ways. To make the water softer, the water can be filtered through peat moss or filtered through a reverse osmosis system. Ion exchange resins also can be used to lower the water hardness. Boiling water for a period of time can also reduce its hardness. To harden the water, filter the water through dolomite or crushed coral until the desired hardness is reached. http://www.sydneyci chlid.com/ aquarium- hardness. htm How to Harden Water which is too Soft: The simplest way to increase the general hardness is to incorporate calcareous material (e.g.. limestone, crushed marble, lime sand) into the décor or filter. This will slowly release calcium carbonate into the water. Carbonate hardness can also be raised through the gradual addition of sodium bicarbonate. Pool salt, non-iodized salt Rift Lake Salt additives (e.g. Seachem products, sera gH - kH plus, sera mineral salt etc.) and some bottled hard mineral water (e.g. Evian) can also be added. Some aquarists even add a small percentage of sea water to the aquarium (around 2%). Proprietary treatments for raising the level of hardness, in the form of powders (e.g. kH Generator), are also available through the local fish shops. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:11 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question A followup on recharging of filter on water well. First I was mistaken as to the kind of filter that was on my water well. Last year and in previous years when the well filter was recharged I was not keeping fish and did not pay that much attention to what was being done to the well. It turns out that the filter is not an iron filter after all, but is a acid neutralizing filter. It is recharged by adding fresh limestone that is slowly dissolved by the acid water in my area. I am on the border line for the need of an iron filter. The filter was recharged Thursday so I waited a couple of days to let the water stabilize and tested it today, Saturday. The pH out of the tap was 7.4. This is consistent with my aquarium water witch is 7.4-7.5. The KH was previously 6 dKH, it went to 7 dKH. The GH was previously 7 dGH, it went to 10 dGH. The water did not change that much since the filter had not completely depleted the existing limestone. It will probably stabilize to be close to what it previously was. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA 70442 -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. . com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. . com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and this causes staining in the tubs and toilets. Each year I have a water well service come and recharge the filter. They are coming next week. In the past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter was recharged (other than it was safe for drinking). Since the last recharging I have set up aquariums. My question is should I expect any change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)? Of course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 11:17 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28230	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

50 lbs of limestone is added to the filter at each recharging.  It last just over a year.  I like to change it before it runs out completely so my water quality will not change for my PWC.  I bypass the filter for water I use outside the home such as lawn water etc.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2008 1:25:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Well Question Lenny, Limestone of course would be the cheapest to use to raise the hardness, but crushed coral would dissolve faster, followed by dolomite although I don't know if these two are used commercially in such a hardening system. With crushed coral though, you would be able to use your water at a faster flow rate per hour, yet still get the same or better results as limestone at a slower flow rate. Like you, I have never needed to use it as an in-line house unit with my plumbing (although I've used the crushed coral and dolomite in those tanks containing Rift Lake Cichlids to boost the hardness for them). It would seem that limestone would be easier to use and more conveniently obtained. I would also tend to think that if the unit is engineered to be large enough, using limestone would adequately harden the water at most any normal flow rates. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Jimmy, > > How old is your home? Do you still have metal plumbing (copper, etc.) or > one of the plastics (pvc, pe, etc.)? While making the water a little harder > may or may not be needed for your fish, it may not be needed for you/your > home.... although, personally, I prefer harder water to soft water anyhow. > Do you have a by-pass valve to get water from your well prior to it going > through the limestone hardening system? You should do a two-day baseline > test on both waters to see how they do. You also want to check your GH and > KH during these baseline tests. > > \\Steve// and Ray (and any others), > > Is limestone the best thing to use for raising the hardness in aquaria? > I've never had to do it so I've never done much research on the issue. My > first thoughts is that it wouldn't be but I'll wait to see what you guys > (and others) say. I know most of the forum threads that I've read recommend > things like crushed coral and if limestone was a good way, it seems I would > have read that somewhere since limestone has to be easier and cheaper to get > compared to crushed coral. The snip from the second article does mention > limestone as one way to increase GH. > > I did a quick Google and found this info from known reliable sites... > > http://fish. mongabay. com/chemistry. htm > Changing the Water Hardness: > Water hardness can be manipulated in several ways. To make the water softer, > the water can be filtered through peat moss or filtered through a reverse > osmosis system. Ion exchange resins also can be used to lower the water > hardness. Boiling water for a period of time can also reduce its hardness. > To harden the water, filter the water through dolomite or crushed coral > until the desired hardness is reached. > > http://www.sydneyci chlid.com/ aquarium- hardness. htm > How to Harden Water which is too Soft: > The simplest way to increase the general hardness is to incorporate > calcareous material (e.g. limestone, crushed marble, lime sand) into the > décor or filter. This will slowly release calcium carbonate into the water. > Carbonate hardness can also be raised through the gradual addition of sodium > bicarbonate. > > Pool salt, non-iodized salt Rift Lake Salt additives (e.g. Seachem products, > sera gH - kH plus, sera mineral salt etc.) and some bottled hard mineral > water (e..g. Evian) can also be added. Some aquarists even add a small > percentage of sea water to the aquarium (around 2%). > > Proprietary treatments for raising the level of hardness, in the form of > powders (e.g. kH Generator), are also available through the local fish > shops. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > A followup on recharging of filter on water well. First I was mistaken as > to the kind of filter that was on my water well. Last year and in previous > years when the well filter was recharged I was not keeping fish and did not > pay that much attention to what was being done to the well. It turns out > that the filter is not an iron filter after all, but is a acid neutralizing > filter. It is recharged by adding fresh limestone that is slowly dissolved > by the acid water in my area. I am on the border line for the need of an > iron filter. > > The filter was recharged Thursday so I waited a couple of days to let the > water stabilize and tested it today, Saturday. The pH out of the tap was > 7.4. This is consistent with my aquarium water witch is 7.4-7.5. The KH > was previously 6 dKH, it went to 7 dKH. The GH was previously 7 dGH, it > went to 10 dGH. > > The water did not change that much since the filter had not completely > depleted the existing limestone. It will probably stabilize to be close to > what it previously was. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA 70442 > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. > Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the > iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really > just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need > to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are > using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be > OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly > innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. > > Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if > he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. > The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and > this causes staining in the tubs and toilets. Each year I have a water well > service come and recharge the filter. They are coming next week. In the > past I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the > filter was recharged (other than it was safe for drinking). Since the last > recharging I have set up aquariums. My question is should I expect any > change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)? Of > course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 > 11:17 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28231	From: greyhabit	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: New Member Intro & Biorb Stocking Density

Hi Lenny, Thank you for your most helpful input, all very much appreciated. Based upon what you and kind others have said, and my gut feelings, I will opt for the 60L tank and a max of four or five very small catfish, plus a selection of plants for them to hide in. Thanks to you and everyone who has replied. Max --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, 30L (8G) isn't much water to work with so you would be forced to go > with otos which are the smaller species in general and you would want a > shoal of five or six which would fully stock the tank. > > Here's a long article about Otos... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/shanesworld.php?article_id=178 > (half way down is where it gets more into the hobbyist) > > Here is PlanetCatfish's page of Oto profiles/care sheets... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/genus.php?genus_id=49#107 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyhabit > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 8:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Member Intro > > Hi Lenny, > > Nice of you to respond. Yes, Mainly Cory's and Otto's. > > Any suggestions re: stocking density per 30L ? > > Thanks Mate :) > > Max > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I'm guessing you are thinking about Corydoras or Otocinclus'? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of greyhabit > > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 11:52 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member Intro > > > > Hello, > > > > I live in mid Wales, UK. I keep mainly small adult Catfish in a > couple of > > large tanks. I have been keeping fish for just over 3 years, with > only one > > imported infection from stock bought from a pet supermarket in my > > early days. > > > > My little one wants a fish tank of her own in her small bedroom, so > it looks > > like I will soon be buying the ever fashionable BiOrb fish bowl, > either 30L > > or 60L. If any of you have any views, comments or suggestions on the > > suitability of these bowls for small tropical catfish, I would be very > > interested. > > > > Best Wishes, > > > > Max > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 > 11:17 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28232	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

Jimmy, It might be noticed that when I see Lenny and \\Steve// responding to questions, I often refrain from replying unless I have something material to add to the existing replies, when I know the matter is adequately being taken care of. Such has been the case in your query up until now. Your postings here of the results of your unfiltered water parameters testings prompts me to join in on this topic. With the pH being this low, I had to read back through your threads, as most water companies would have added chemicals to increase this pH in efforts to prolong the life of their infrastructure but it appears as though each home in your vicinity has their own private well including youself. Again, noting the rather low pH, I have to assume that you have either a shallower well than normally used or if you have what is considered as a deep well the shaft is going through bedrock devoid of limestone. When such water is pumped to the surface, it is generally found to contain saturations of carbon dioxide, effectively lowering you pH. You will find that as the excess amounts of this gas dissipate, your pH will rise. Often, to increase the process of off-gasing, aeration is employed to expedite this in more efficient manner. With your alkalinity (KH) at less than 1, you can expect your pH to eventually rise to somewhere around 6.6 at the end of 48 hours -- or within 24 hours if you aerate it to speed up bubbling this gas off. Some breeders would consider your water a blessing, if they were raising South American Cichlids (Discus, Uaru, etc.) and Tetras enjoying this type of water, or West African Killiefish, although attention would need to be taken in keeping the tank water well changed (PWC's) to prevent a pH crash. I have not found in your data, any preference as to what species you intend to breed, if in fact you intend breeding any fish at all, unless your water needs are just for maintaining fish. If breeding the afore-mentioned fish, you might consider bypassing the water hardening unit and use storage tanks to off-gas the CO2 to up the pH, since you'll need to have the water reach room temperature anyway before using it. Otherwise, your hardening filter would serve your purpose fine to increase your KH (and GH) for most other species and/or, with the proper buffers, for those TDS and calcium-loving fish. Without a convenient method to off-gas your CO2 though, you may need to do more frequent smaller PWC's rather than longer-time-framed larger PWC's to help prevent a temporary pH bounce. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the response, > I tested the unfiltered water using an API Liquid test.  The pH was 6.0 minus.  It is the lowest on the color chart so I don't know for sure how acid it is.  The KH is less than 1, the GH is 2 dKH.  I'll test it again in 24 and 48 hours. > >  Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2008 11:14:09 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > > For older homes with metal plumbing, having acid (low pH) water flowing > through the pipes over the course of many years will cause corrosion of the > pipes. This is why public water utilities add buffers to raise the pH so > the water doesn't corrode the public pipes. Since your home is newer and > has plastic, the water, whether acid or basic, should not affect them. In > fact, the harder water may cause build-up inside the pipes over a long > period of time which could cause water flow (plumbing) problems. I've seen > pipes down here in N'Awlins in some of these 100+ year old homes where the > 1" pipe was reduced to a trickle due to calcium/mineral buildup inside the > pipes. > > Remember that while your filter supplier/repair company may be giving you > good advice, whenever I get advice from someone who may benefit financially > from their advice, I always double/triple check the advice.. this includes > the pet store, LFS and doctors too! > > Since it's only a limestone filter system, I'm hoping they don't charge very > much to "recharge" it. Limestone is pretty cheap stuff. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 10:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > Thanks Lenny & Steve, > > The house is about 15 years old. It has pvc pipe in all of the areas that I > can seen which is most most if not all. I can bypass the filter, although > it will all be cold water. I will do a pH, KH and GH test on the bypassed > water to see what effect the filter has. I had planned on using the > unfiltered water when I set up the aquariums, but I took water samples of > filtered and non-filtered water to the nearest LFS in Mandeville, LA and > after testing both they advised me to use the filtered water. This was last > Nov. I have now learned, through this group, that the LFS advise may not > have been reliable. The water well service tech told me Thursday that most > of the homes in this area that did not have acid neutralizing filters on > their wells had problems with their plumbing. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2008 10:26:38 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > Jimmy, > > How old is your home? Do you still have metal plumbing (copper, etc.) or one > of the plastics (pvc, pe, etc.)? While making the water a little harder may > or may not be needed for your fish, it may not be needed for you/your > home..... although, personally, I prefer harder water to soft water anyhow. > Do you have a by-pass valve to get water from your well prior to it going > through the limestone hardening system? You should do a two-day baseline > test on both waters to see how they do. You also want to check your GH and > KH during these baseline tests. > > \\Steve// and Ray (and any others), > > Is limestone the best thing to use for raising the hardness in aquaria? > I've never had to do it so I've never done much research on the issue. My > first thoughts is that it wouldn't be but I'll wait to see what you guys > (and others) say. I know most of the forum threads that I've read recommend > things like crushed coral and if limestone was a good way, it seems I would > have read that somewhere since limestone has to be easier and cheaper to get > compared to crushed coral. The snip from the second article does mention > limestone as one way to increase GH. > > I did a quick Google and found this info from known reliable sites... > > http://fish. mongabay. com/chemistry. htm Changing the Water Hardness: > Water hardness can be manipulated in several ways. To make the water softer, > the water can be filtered through peat moss or filtered through a reverse > osmosis system. Ion exchange resins also can be used to lower the water > hardness. Boiling water for a period of time can also reduce its hardness. > To harden the water, filter the water through dolomite or crushed coral > until the desired hardness is reached. > > http://www.sydneyci chlid.com/ aquarium- hardness. htm How to Harden Water > which is too Soft: > The simplest way to increase the general hardness is to incorporate > calcareous material (e.g.. limestone, crushed marble, lime sand) into the > décor or filter. This will slowly release calcium carbonate into the water. > Carbonate hardness can also be raised through the gradual addition of sodium > bicarbonate. > > Pool salt, non-iodized salt Rift Lake Salt additives (e.g. Seachem products, > sera gH - kH plus, sera mineral salt etc.) and some bottled hard mineral > water (e.g. Evian) can also be added. Some aquarists even add a small > percentage of sea water to the aquarium (around 2%). > > Proprietary treatments for raising the level of hardness, in the form of > powders (e.g. kH Generator), are also available through the local fish > shops. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > A followup on recharging of filter on water well. First I was mistaken as to > the kind of filter that was on my water well. Last year and in previous > years when the well filter was recharged I was not keeping fish and did not > pay that much attention to what was being done to the well. It turns out > that the filter is not an iron filter after all, but is a acid neutralizing > filter. It is recharged by adding fresh limestone that is slowly dissolved > by the acid water in my area. I am on the border line for the need of an > iron filter. > > The filter was recharged Thursday so I waited a couple of days to let the > water stabilize and tested it today, Saturday. The pH out of the tap was > 7.4. This is consistent with my aquarium water witch is 7.4-7.5. The KH was > previously 6 dKH, it went to 7 dKH. The GH was previously 7 dGH, it went to > 10 dGH. > > The water did not change that much since the filter had not completely > depleted the existing limestone. It will probably stabilize to be close to > what it previously was. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA 70442 > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. . com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. > com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. . com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. > Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the > iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really > just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need > to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are > using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be > OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly > innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. > > Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if > he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. > The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and > this causes staining in the tubs and toilets. Each year I have a water well > service come and recharge the filter. They are coming next week. In the past > I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter > was recharged (other than it was safe for drinking). Since the last > recharging I have set up aquariums. My question is should I expect any > change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)? Of > course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 > 11:17 AM > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28233	From: Jim	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Need Advice

Hi, I have a 20 gallon freshwater tank stocked with six Giant Danios and one Chinese Algae Eater. I am going to be moving in about a month and may have to get rid of my fish and fish tank. Can anyone give me any advice on how I might get rid of my fish? I know people sell fish tanks on Craigslist, but how would I go about getting rid of a fish that are in perfect health? I don't think people are supposed to sell animals on Craigslist. If anyone could help me with this, I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28234	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

Ray, thanks for your informative post on the subject of my unfiltered water tests.  It's good to know that I have options.  Currently I am only keeping fish, not breeding.  I have 3 tanks, a 90 gal, 20L gal and 10 gal..  I do weekly 25% PWC on the 90 and twice a week 25% PWC on the others.  The 20L gal is intended to be a quarantine tank and the 10 gal is a hospital tank.  Both the 20 and 10 are currently in use to house some fish temporarily to reduce the bio-load in the 90 gal.  I am keeping gourami, corys, brochis and otocinclas cats.  Almost all of the gourami are female and get along together well.   I am using filtered water in all three tanks.    Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 8, 2008 6:38:14 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Well Question Jimmy, It might be noticed that when I see Lenny and \\Steve// responding to questions, I often refrain from replying unless I have something material to add to the existing replies, when I know the matter is adequately being taken care of. Such has been the case in your query up until now. Your postings here of the results of your unfiltered water parameters testings prompts me to join in on this topic. With the pH being this low, I had to read back through your threads, as most water companies would have added chemicals to increase this pH in efforts to prolong the life of their infrastructure but it appears as though each home in your vicinity has their own private well including youself. Again, noting the rather low pH, I have to assume that you have either a shallower well than normally used or if you have what is considered as a deep well the shaft is going through bedrock devoid of limestone. When such water is pumped to the surface, it is generally found to contain saturations of carbon dioxide, effectively lowering you pH. You will find that as the excess amounts of this gas dissipate, your pH will rise. Often, to increase the process of off-gasing, aeration is employed to expedite this in more efficient manner. With your alkalinity (KH) at less than 1, you can expect your pH to eventually rise to somewhere around 6.6 at the end of 48 hours -- or within 24 hours if you aerate it to speed up bubbling this gas off. Some breeders would consider your water a blessing, if they were raising South American Cichlids (Discus, Uaru, etc.) and Tetras enjoying this type of water, or West African Killiefish, although attention would need to be taken in keeping the tank water well changed (PWC's) to prevent a pH crash. I have not found in your data, any preference as to what species you intend to breed, if in fact you intend breeding any fish at all, unless your water needs are just for maintaining fish. If breeding the afore-mentioned fish, you might consider bypassing the water hardening unit and use storage tanks to off-gas the CO2 to up the pH, since you'll need to have the water reach room temperature anyway before using it. Otherwise, your hardening filter would serve your purpose fine to increase your KH (and GH) for most other species and/or, with the proper buffers, for those TDS and calcium-loving fish. Without a convenient method to off-gas your CO2 though, you may need to do more frequent smaller PWC's rather than longer-time- framed larger PWC's to help prevent a temporary pH bounce. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@. ..> wrote: > > Thanks for the response, > I tested the unfiltered water using an API Liquid test.  The pH was 6.0 minus.  It is the lowest on the color chart so I don't know for sure how acid it is.  The KH is less than 1, the GH is 2 dKH.  I'll test it again in 24 and 48 hours. > >  Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2008 11:14:09 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > > For older homes with metal plumbing, having acid (low pH) water flowing > through the pipes over the course of many years will cause corrosion of the > pipes. This is why public water utilities add buffers to raise the pH so > the water doesn't corrode the public pipes. Since your home is newer and > has plastic, the water, whether acid or basic, should not affect them. In > fact, the harder water may cause build-up inside the pipes over a long > period of time which could cause water flow (plumbing) problems. I've seen > pipes down here in N'Awlins in some of these 100+ year old homes where the > 1" pipe was reduced to a trickle due to calcium/mineral buildup inside the > pipes. > > Remember that while your filter supplier/repair company may be giving you > good advice, whenever I get advice from someone who may benefit financially > from their advice, I always double/triple check the advice.. this includes > the pet store, LFS and doctors too! > > Since it's only a limestone filter system, I'm hoping they don't charge very > much to "recharge" it. Limestone is pretty cheap stuff. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 10:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > Thanks Lenny & Steve, > > The house is about 15 years old. It has pvc pipe in all of the areas that I > can seen which is most most if not all. I can bypass the filter, although > it will all be cold water. I will do a pH, KH and GH test on the bypassed > water to see what effect the filter has. I had planned on using the > unfiltered water when I set up the aquariums, but I took water samples of > filtered and non-filtered water to the nearest LFS in Mandeville, LA and > after testing both they advised me to use the filtered water. This was last > Nov. I have now learned, through this group, that the LFS advise may not > have been reliable. The water well service tech told me Thursday that most > of the homes in this area that did not have acid neutralizing filters on > their wells had problems with their plumbing. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2008 10:26:38 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > Jimmy, > > How old is your home? Do you still have metal plumbing (copper, etc.) or one > of the plastics (pvc, pe, etc.)? While making the water a little harder may > or may not be needed for your fish, it may not be needed for you/your > home..... although, personally, I prefer harder water to soft water anyhow. > Do you have a by-pass valve to get water from your well prior to it going > through the limestone hardening system? You should do a two-day baseline > test on both waters to see how they do. You also want to check your GH and > KH during these baseline tests. > > \\Steve// and Ray (and any others), > > Is limestone the best thing to use for raising the hardness in aquaria? > I've never had to do it so I've never done much research on the issue. My > first thoughts is that it wouldn't be but I'll wait to see what you guys > (and others) say. I know most of the forum threads that I've read recommend > things like crushed coral and if limestone was a good way, it seems I would > have read that somewhere since limestone has to be easier and cheaper to get > compared to crushed coral. The snip from the second article does mention > limestone as one way to increase GH. > > I did a quick Google and found this info from known reliable sites... > > http://fish. mongabay. com/chemistry.. htm Changing the Water Hardness: > Water hardness can be manipulated in several ways. To make the water softer, > the water can be filtered through peat moss or filtered through a reverse > osmosis system. Ion exchange resins also can be used to lower the water > hardness. Boiling water for a period of time can also reduce its hardness. > To harden the water, filter the water through dolomite or crushed coral > until the desired hardness is reached. > > http://www.sydneyci chlid.com/ aquarium- hardness. htm How to Harden Water > which is too Soft: > The simplest way to increase the general hardness is to incorporate > calcareous material (e.g.. limestone, crushed marble, lime sand) into the > décor or filter. This will slowly release calcium carbonate into the water. > Carbonate hardness can also be raised through the gradual addition of sodium > bicarbonate. > > Pool salt, non-iodized salt Rift Lake Salt additives (e.g. Seachem products, > sera gH - kH plus, sera mineral salt etc.) and some bottled hard mineral > water (e.g. Evian) can also be added. Some aquarists even add a small > percentage of sea water to the aquarium (around 2%). > > Proprietary treatments for raising the level of hardness, in the form of > powders (e.g. kH Generator), are also available through the local fish > shops. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > A followup on recharging of filter on water well. First I was mistaken as to > the kind of filter that was on my water well. Last year and in previous > years when the well filter was recharged I was not keeping fish and did not > pay that much attention to what was being done to the well.. It turns out > that the filter is not an iron filter after all, but is a acid neutralizing > filter. It is recharged by adding fresh limestone that is slowly dissolved > by the acid water in my area. I am on the border line for the need of an > iron filter. > > The filter was recharged Thursday so I waited a couple of days to let the > water stabilize and tested it today, Saturday. The pH out of the tap was > 7.4. This is consistent with my aquarium water witch is 7.4-7.5. The KH was > previously 6 dKH, it went to 7 dKH. The GH was previously 7 dGH, it went to > 10 dGH. > > The water did not change that much since the filter had not completely > depleted the existing limestone. It will probably stabilize to be close to > what it previously was. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA 70442 > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. . com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. > com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. . com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. > Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the > iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really > just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need > to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are > using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be > OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly > innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. > > Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if > he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. > The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and > this causes staining in the tubs and toilets. Each year I have a water well > service come and recharge the filter. They are coming next week. In the past > I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter > was recharged (other than it was safe for drinking). Since the last > recharging I have set up aquariums. My question is should I expect any > change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)? Of > course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 > 11:17 AM > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28235	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?

OK, here are the results of my water testing: Tap water from city source tested immediately, from a line that has never been softened: pH 7.4 Tap water, not softened, after 24 hour wait: pH 7.4 Reverse-osmosis water (R.O. unit is very small. I only can use it to top off losses between changes): pH 6.6 Softened tap water tested immediately from house line: pH 7.4 I keep a 55 gallon freshwater community tank with various Gouramis, a few Clown Loaches, a Weatherfish, a few Cory cats, a Plecostomus, a Black Ghost Knife, a stray feeder Goldfish that somehow survived being eaten, Glass Cats various Tetras. I have plenty of natural driftwood in the setup, no rockwork at all and various live plants. I'm not entirely sure the pH is at 7.4, but that's as high as the chart with kit I have goes. The test water comes out a somewhat deeper blue color than the chart. I came here (Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia) from the Midwest where the water is naturally hard and the pH ranges are around the upper 6 s to 7.0 out of the tap. If the consensus is that the fish will be fine at these pH levels, I'll quit chasing the pH levels. If not, how can I make sense of this situation and deal with it without stressing my fish to death and without buying "pH Down" in the handy gallon size?    Gregg Bender Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28236	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice

If you have no friends or co-workers willing to take them, check with your LFS to see if they will take them from you. Quite often they give a store credit for fish, but you may be able to work out a cash deal, since you are moving, or take what you need with the credit right away. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 12:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Advice Hi, I have a 20 gallon freshwater tank stocked with six Giant Danios and one Chinese Algae Eater. I am going to be moving in about a month and may have to get rid of my fish and fish tank. Can anyone give me any advice on how I might get rid of my fish? I know people sell fish tanks on Craigslist, but how would I go about getting rid of a fish that are in perfect health? I don't think people are supposed to sell animals on Craigslist. If anyone could help me with this, I would really appreciate it. Thanks! ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28237	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice

I've seen live fish and entire set-ups being advertised and sold on Craigslist. Also tell us where you are... what City? There may be a member or two in your area. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Advice Hi, I have a 20 gallon freshwater tank stocked with six Giant Danios and one Chinese Algae Eater. I am going to be moving in about a month and may have to get rid of my fish and fish tank. Can anyone give me any advice on how I might get rid of my fish? I know people sell fish tanks on Craigslist, but how would I go about getting rid of a fish that are in perfect health? I don't think people are supposed to sell animals on Craigslist. If anyone could help me with this, I would really appreciate it. Thanks! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 11:17 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28238	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Water Well Question

"Temporarily housing" fish in other tanks tends to become "Permanent Housing" for the fish in question. I'm thinking you are going to need another tank or two to keep on hand for emergencies or "Temporarily housing" other fish <G>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 8:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Well Question Ray, thanks for your informative post on the subject of my unfiltered water tests.  It's good to know that I have options.  Currently I am only keeping fish, not breeding.  I have 3 tanks, a 90 gal, 20L gal and 10 gal..  I do weekly 25% PWC on the 90 and twice a week 25% PWC on the others.  The 20L gal is intended to be a quarantine tank and the 10 gal is a hospital tank.  Both the 20 and 10 are currently in use to house some fish temporarily to reduce the bio-load in the 90 gal.  I am keeping gourami, corys, brochis and otocinclas cats.  Almost all of the gourami are female and get along together well.   I am using filtered water in all three tanks.    Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 8, 2008 6:38:14 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Well Question Jimmy, It might be noticed that when I see Lenny and \\Steve// responding to questions, I often refrain from replying unless I have something material to add to the existing replies, when I know the matter is adequately being taken care of. Such has been the case in your query up until now. Your postings here of the results of your unfiltered water parameters testings prompts me to join in on this topic. With the pH being this low, I had to read back through your threads, as most water companies would have added chemicals to increase this pH in efforts to prolong the life of their infrastructure but it appears as though each home in your vicinity has their own private well including youself. Again, noting the rather low pH, I have to assume that you have either a shallower well than normally used or if you have what is considered as a deep well the shaft is going through bedrock devoid of limestone. When such water is pumped to the surface, it is generally found to contain saturations of carbon dioxide, effectively lowering you pH. You will find that as the excess amounts of this gas dissipate, your pH will rise. Often, to increase the process of off-gasing, aeration is employed to expedite this in more efficient manner. With your alkalinity (KH) at less than 1, you can expect your pH to eventually rise to somewhere around 6.6 at the end of 48 hours -- or within 24 hours if you aerate it to speed up bubbling this gas off. Some breeders would consider your water a blessing, if they were raising South American Cichlids (Discus, Uaru, etc.) and Tetras enjoying this type of water, or West African Killiefish, although attention would need to be taken in keeping the tank water well changed (PWC's) to prevent a pH crash. I have not found in your data, any preference as to what species you intend to breed, if in fact you intend breeding any fish at all, unless your water needs are just for maintaining fish. If breeding the afore-mentioned fish, you might consider bypassing the water hardening unit and use storage tanks to off-gas the CO2 to up the pH, since you'll need to have the water reach room temperature anyway before using it. Otherwise, your hardening filter would serve your purpose fine to increase your KH (and GH) for most other species and/or, with the proper buffers, for those TDS and calcium-loving fish. Without a convenient method to off-gas your CO2 though, you may need to do more frequent smaller PWC's rather than longer-time- framed larger PWC's to help prevent a temporary pH bounce. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@. ..> wrote: > > Thanks for the response, > I tested the unfiltered water using an API Liquid test.  The pH was 6.0 minus.  It is the lowest on the color chart so I don't know for sure how acid it is.  The KH is less than 1, the GH is 2 dKH.  I'll test it again in 24 and 48 hours. > >  Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2008 11:14:09 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > > For older homes with metal plumbing, having acid (low pH) water flowing > through the pipes over the course of many years will cause corrosion of the > pipes. This is why public water utilities add buffers to raise the pH so > the water doesn't corrode the public pipes. Since your home is newer and > has plastic, the water, whether acid or basic, should not affect them. In > fact, the harder water may cause build-up inside the pipes over a long > period of time which could cause water flow (plumbing) problems. I've seen > pipes down here in N'Awlins in some of these 100+ year old homes where the > 1" pipe was reduced to a trickle due to calcium/mineral buildup inside the > pipes. > > Remember that while your filter supplier/repair company may be giving you > good advice, whenever I get advice from someone who may benefit financially > from their advice, I always double/triple check the advice.. this includes > the pet store, LFS and doctors too! > > Since it's only a limestone filter system, I'm hoping they don't charge very > much to "recharge" it. Limestone is pretty cheap stuff. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 10:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > Thanks Lenny & Steve, > > The house is about 15 years old. It has pvc pipe in all of the areas that I > can seen which is most most if not all. I can bypass the filter, although > it will all be cold water. I will do a pH, KH and GH test on the bypassed > water to see what effect the filter has. I had planned on using the > unfiltered water when I set up the aquariums, but I took water samples of > filtered and non-filtered water to the nearest LFS in Mandeville, LA and > after testing both they advised me to use the filtered water. This was last > Nov. I have now learned, through this group, that the LFS advise may not > have been reliable. The water well service tech told me Thursday that most > of the homes in this area that did not have acid neutralizing filters on > their wells had problems with their plumbing. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2008 10:26:38 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > Jimmy, > > How old is your home? Do you still have metal plumbing (copper, etc.) or one > of the plastics (pvc, pe, etc.)? While making the water a little harder may > or may not be needed for your fish, it may not be needed for you/your > home..... although, personally, I prefer harder water to soft water anyhow. > Do you have a by-pass valve to get water from your well prior to it going > through the limestone hardening system? You should do a two-day baseline > test on both waters to see how they do. You also want to check your GH and > KH during these baseline tests. > > \\Steve// and Ray (and any others), > > Is limestone the best thing to use for raising the hardness in aquaria? > I've never had to do it so I've never done much research on the issue. My > first thoughts is that it wouldn't be but I'll wait to see what you guys > (and others) say. I know most of the forum threads that I've read recommend > things like crushed coral and if limestone was a good way, it seems I would > have read that somewhere since limestone has to be easier and cheaper to get > compared to crushed coral. The snip from the second article does mention > limestone as one way to increase GH. > > I did a quick Google and found this info from known reliable sites... > > http://fish. mongabay. com/chemistry.. htm Changing the Water Hardness: > Water hardness can be manipulated in several ways. To make the water softer, > the water can be filtered through peat moss or filtered through a reverse > osmosis system. Ion exchange resins also can be used to lower the water > hardness. Boiling water for a period of time can also reduce its hardness. > To harden the water, filter the water through dolomite or crushed coral > until the desired hardness is reached. > > http://www.sydneyci chlid.com/ aquarium- hardness. htm How to Harden Water > which is too Soft: > The simplest way to increase the general hardness is to incorporate > calcareous material (e.g.. limestone, crushed marble, lime sand) into the > décor or filter. This will slowly release calcium carbonate into the water. > Carbonate hardness can also be raised through the gradual addition of sodium > bicarbonate. > > Pool salt, non-iodized salt Rift Lake Salt additives (e.g. Seachem products, > sera gH - kH plus, sera mineral salt etc.) and some bottled hard mineral > water (e.g. Evian) can also be added. Some aquarists even add a small > percentage of sea water to the aquarium (around 2%). > > Proprietary treatments for raising the level of hardness, in the form of > powders (e.g. kH Generator), are also available through the local fish > shops. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > A followup on recharging of filter on water well. First I was mistaken as to > the kind of filter that was on my water well. Last year and in previous > years when the well filter was recharged I was not keeping fish and did not > pay that much attention to what was being done to the well.. It turns out > that the filter is not an iron filter after all, but is a acid neutralizing > filter. It is recharged by adding fresh limestone that is slowly dissolved > by the acid water in my area. I am on the border line for the need of an > iron filter. > > The filter was recharged Thursday so I waited a couple of days to let the > water stabilize and tested it today, Saturday. The pH out of the tap was > 7.4. This is consistent with my aquarium water witch is 7.4-7.5. The KH was > previously 6 dKH, it went to 7 dKH. The GH was previously 7 dGH, it went to > 10 dGH. > > The water did not change that much since the filter had not completely > depleted the existing limestone. It will probably stabilize to be close to > what it previously was. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA 70442 > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. . com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. > com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. . com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > I really don't know, as you, but why not ask what, exactly, they are doing. > Are they actually using a zeolite and need to use a solution to remove the > iron molecules and allow the material to pickup more, or are they really > just changing the filter for you. If the latter, there is probably no need > to worry, if the former, then I'd question further exactly what they are > using and what effects it will have on the water. My hunch is that you'll be > OK, since the solution they will be using will be something fairly > innocuous, though it may have a short term effect on the pH of your water. > > Lenny may have a better idea, being from LA himself, though I do not know if > he has had to deal with this kind of situation before. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Well Question > > As I mentioned in a previous post I have a water well that I use for my PWC. > The well has a iron filter on it as the water in my area is high in iron and > this causes staining in the tubs and toilets. Each year I have a water well > service come and recharge the filter. They are coming next week. In the past > I have not been concerned with the effect on the well water when the filter > was recharged (other than it was safe for drinking). Since the last > recharging I have set up aquariums. My question is should I expect any > change in the water quality (other than clearer water and reduced iron)? Of > course I will test the tap water before doing a PWC. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 > 11:17 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28239	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units?

Gregg, Get yourself a high range pH test for your water to find out what the pH is for sure. Being bored today, I did a search for you, but was not able to find a water report online for your Water Department, but, you can call them here to try and get one: Customer Service Specialist/System Analyst, David Martin 304-725-2311, extension 223. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units? OK, here are the results of my water testing: Tap water from city source tested immediately, from a line that has never been softened: pH 7.4 Tap water, not softened, after 24 hour wait: pH 7.4 Reverse-osmosis water (R.O. unit is very small. I only can use it to top off losses between changes): pH 6.6 Softened tap water tested immediately from house line: pH 7.4 I keep a 55 gallon freshwater community tank with various Gouramis, a few Clown Loaches, a Weatherfish, a few Cory cats, a Plecostomus, a Black Ghost Knife, a stray feeder Goldfish that somehow survived being eaten, Glass Cats various Tetras. I have plenty of natural driftwood in the setup, no rockwork at all and various live plants. I'm not entirely sure the pH is at 7.4, but that's as high as the chart with kit I have goes. The test water comes out a somewhat deeper blue color than the chart. I came here (Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia) from the Midwest where the water is naturally hard and the pH ranges are around the upper 6 s to 7.0 out of the tap. If the consensus is that the fish will be fine at these pH levels, I'll quit chasing the pH levels. If not, how can I make sense of this situation and deal with it without stressing my fish to death and without buying "pH Down" in the handy gallon size?    Gregg Bender Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. www.nvsr.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28240	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Spare Aquarium Use

Now, I realize it is not every day you have a spare Eclipse 6 hanging around waiting for you to do something with it, but, just in case you do, and you really want to put it to use, you might want to see how you can put a computer in it. Check out this YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOgptvjwng8 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28241	From: babsdvs	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Salt

Well, today I bought another female molly to add to my pair and was told that they had beem raised with salt added to their water, so I bought aquarium salt - did a PWC - only 6g out of 30 and added salt. I know that is a minuscule amount - know that adding salt is debatable, and wondered if I should continue to add salt? The initial pair never seemed to suffer from lack of salt - I don't want to hurt my plants or other fish (5 invincible ZDs, swords, corys and honey gouramis) but I don't want to deprive the fish of the added benefit of supposed electrolytes (according to the box).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28242	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice

In a message dated 6/8/2008 12:21:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rjames1973@... writes: I have a 20 gallon freshwater tank stocked with six Giant Danios and one Chinese Algae Eater. I am going to be moving in about a month and may have to get rid of my fish and fish tank. Can anyone give me any advice on how I might get rid of my fish? I know people sell fish tanks on Craigslist, but how would I go about getting rid of a fish that are in perfect health? I don't think people are supposed to sell animals on Craigslist. If anyone could help me with this, I would really appreciate it. Thanks! Don't know if you are trying to make money or not - but if you advertised on FREECYCLE in your area you'd have people knocking on your door. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28243	From: myronbarefoot	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: books

Hi, does anybody in the group have any suggestions on an all- around "bible" for trouble-shooting/maintenence of aquariums? and on fish species profiles? Thanks in advance. Myron

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28244	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami wounded

An update on my Dwarf Gourami, he's healing well, the white 'flesh' doesn't appear anymore, and he's actively hassling his male mate. I treated him only with sea salt. Thanks for the advise, Steve and Lenny. All the best, Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28245	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice

Hi Jim, I would either find a person who would take care of them well or if you are not that particular, take them to a good fish shop and explain your situation. They might offer you something- if they are honest or they may just take them off your hands. The first choice is the way I would go but it might take a lot of time locating this person. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Jim wrote: > > Hi, > > I have a 20 gallon freshwater tank stocked with six Giant Danios and > one Chinese Algae Eater. I am going to be moving in about a month and > may have to get rid of my fish and fish tank. Can anyone give me any > advice on how I might get rid of my fish? I know people sell fish tanks > on Craigslist, but how would I go about getting rid of a fish that are > in perfect health? I don't think people are supposed to sell animals on > Craigslist. If anyone could help me with this, I would really > appreciate it. Thanks! > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28246	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Salt

It won't hurt them at all. I add salt to all my 6 tanks and I add salt to the tank system at my work. I've never had issues. It also helps keep down diseases. The only thing that it doesn't do well with is snails. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:29:44 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Salt Well, today I bought another female molly to add to my pair and was told that they had beem raised with salt added to their water, so I bought aquarium salt - did a PWC - only 6g out of 30 and added salt. I know that is a minuscule amount - know that adding salt is debatable, and wondered if I should continue to add salt? The initial pair never seemed to suffer from lack of salt - I don't want to hurt my plants or other fish (5 invincible ZDs, swords, corys and honey gouramis) but I don't want to deprive the fish of the added benefit of supposed electrolytes (according to the box).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28247	From: deborahgd14	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Salt

Sea salt is good. I also use canning salt that comes in a box. It's only $1.99 at WalMart. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lorelei Cosner <loreleicosner@...> wrote: > > Is sea salt from the store good to use in the aquarium? I buy that instead of regular salt for cooking, and it would be neat if I can use it for my fishies too. :) > > Lorelei > > > God bless you. > > Zoo Dino Marine Tycoon group at: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/zdmtyc/ > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28248	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Salt

The only thing you have to check for is to make sure its not iodized!!! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "deborahgd14" <deborahgd14@...> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 01:21:22 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt Sea salt is good. I also use canning salt that comes in a box. It's only $1.99 at WalMart. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Lorelei Cosner <loreleicosner@...> wrote: > > Is sea salt from the store good to use in the aquarium? I buy that instead of regular salt for cooking, and it would be neat if I can use it for my fishies too. :) > > Lorelei > > > God bless you. > > Zoo Dino Marine Tycoon group at: http://games. <http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/zdmtyc/> groups.yahoo.com/group/zdmtyc/ >__________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28249	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: books

I'd like to find such a thing as well. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: myronbarefoot To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 4:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] books Hi, does anybody in the group have any suggestions on an all- around "bible" for trouble-shooting/maintenence of aquariums? and on fish species profiles? Thanks in advance. Myron ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 11:17 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28250	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Salt

Iodized salt is just fine. Another myth in the hobby banning the use of something that may be useful in certain circumstances. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt The only thing you have to check for is to make sure its not iodized!!! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "deborahgd14" <deborahgd14@...> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 01:21:22 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt Sea salt is good. I also use canning salt that comes in a box. It's only $1.99 at WalMart. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Lorelei Cosner <loreleicosner@...> wrote: > > Is sea salt from the store good to use in the aquarium? I buy that instead of regular salt for cooking, and it would be neat if I can use it for my fishies too. :) > > Lorelei > > > God bless you. > > Zoo Dino Marine Tycoon group at: http://games. <http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/zdmtyc/> groups.yahoo.com/group/zdmtyc/ >__________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28251	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: books

If you had searched the archives, you'll see some books that are mentioned frequently. I am fortunate to have an extensive library of fish/aquarium/pond books, but one I frequently mention is the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1. It has a good section on setting up and maintaining an aquarium, a good, but short, section on live plants, and, its strength, hundreds of photos and descriptions of fish. New it runs about $40, but used, it can be found for much less. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of myronbarefoot Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 5:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] books Hi, does anybody in the group have any suggestions on an all- around "bible" for trouble-shooting/maintenence of aquariums? and on fish species profiles? Thanks in advance. Myron ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28252	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt

Hi Steve, Thanks for clarifying that. The salt topic has darn near caused some fish groups to implode. Unfortunately we will probably hear more on this topic in the next couple days. Let's hope it does not degrade into a big argument. -Mike In a message dated 6/8/2008 8:05:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steve@... writes: Iodized salt is just fine. Another myth in the hobby banning the use of something that may be useful in certain circumstances. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28253	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Salt

Even Iodized salt will not do harm at "normal" levels. Here's a couple of snips from http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml (around 1/2 way down the page) ... "Iodized salt. RavenSedai posted at Tom's Place, 23 July2000, the following from a koikeeper newsgroup, which pinpoints the anxiety about iodine in salt, an anxiety I don't share myself." "In natural waters (ocean or freshwater), the predominant form of iodine is the oxidized form, iodate (IO3-), not the reduced form, iodide (I-). These two forms do not interconvert readily in water. The active ingredient in Betadine disinfectant is 1% iodide. The USDA suggests a 10 minute bath of 100 ppm iodide as a disinfectant for trout eggs. A permanent concentration in the pond of about 0.1 ppm, a weak disinfectant bath..." "Fears about toxicity of the iodine represented in table salt are still often expressed in warnings not to use iodized salt in the aquarium. Potassium iodide (sometimes it's sodium iodide) in U.S. iodized table salt ranges from 20 to 40 parts per million. So what part per million of iodide does that potassium iodide represent?" "If you add iodized salt at the rate of one teaspoon per gallon, you are adding iodide in the range of 0.083 - 0.166ppm." "After laying out the calculations, aquariaddictus remarked, "All in all, I have to believe it's a drop in the bucket. Does anyone use a tablespoon/gallon except in times of severe disease?"" (END SNIPS) Basically, it would be best and cheapest to buy bulk rock salt or some other non-iodized salt in bulk to save money but if you don't have any el cheapo rock salt, using regular table salt... either iodized or not... is very common and safe for our fish. There is no reason to spend 10X more for Doc Johnson's Aquarium Salt when you can buy a 2 lb. box of table salt for a fraction of the cost. Now, Sea Salt has other trace elements in it so it has added benefits for SW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt The only thing you have to check for is to make sure its not iodized!!! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "deborahgd14" <deborahgd14@...> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 01:21:22 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt Sea salt is good. I also use canning salt that comes in a box. It's only $1.99 at WalMart. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Lorelei Cosner <loreleicosner@...> wrote: > > Is sea salt from the store good to use in the aquarium? I buy that instead of regular salt for cooking, and it would be neat if I can use it for my fishies too. :) > > Lorelei > > > God bless you. > > Zoo Dino Marine Tycoon group at: http://games. <http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/zdmtyc/> groups.yahoo.com/group/zdmtyc/ >__________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 11:17 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 11:17 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sa

Ooh.. can I help with the implosion? ;-) In the old days... (you know when \\Steve// and Ray were youngster's.. lol) they never knew about Osmoregulation and stuff like that but they did know that salt help prevent or cure lots of things with FW fish so it was common to be added to all FW tanks. As we learned more about the ecology of fishkeeping and the Osmoregulatory System, salt certainly still has a place in fish keeping but I believe it should be used for medicinal purposes only... not as a permanent part of FW fish tanks. Of course, certain FW fish (like some livebearers) do seem to do better with a permanent very low level of salt in their tanks but the majority of FW fish do not need any salt in their tanks. On my blog, 1/2 way down this page... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment.ht ml, I have a series of articles on the use or non-use of salt and articles about the osmoregulatory system. After you read them all, you'll know all about NaCl. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 10:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt Hi Steve, Thanks for clarifying that. The salt topic has darn near caused some fish groups to implode. Unfortunately we will probably hear more on this topic in the next couple days. Let's hope it does not degrade into a big argument. -Mike In a message dated 6/8/2008 8:05:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> writes: Iodized salt is just fine. Another myth in the hobby banning the use of something that may be useful in certain circumstances. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 11:17 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28255	From: harry perry	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: Re: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sa

In the old days... (you know when \\Steve// and Ray were youngster's.. lol) Us old folks stick together you know and your outnumbered. Harry Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario A tropical fish group. Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools. Napoleon --- On Sun, 6/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 8, 2008, 11:32 PM Ooh.. can I help with the implosion? ;-) In the old days... (you know when \\Steve// and Ray were youngster's.. lol) they never knew about Osmoregulation and stuff like that but they did know that salt help prevent or cure lots of things with FW fish so it was common to be added to all FW tanks. As we learned more about the ecology of fishkeeping and the Osmoregulatory System, salt certainly still has a place in fish keeping but I believe it should be used for medicinal purposes only... not as a permanent part of FW fish tanks. Of course, certain FW fish (like some livebearers) do seem to do better with a permanent very low level of salt in their tanks but the majority of FW fish do not need any salt in their tanks. On my blog, 1/2 way down this page... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment.ht ml, I have a series of articles on the use or non-use of salt and articles about the osmoregulatory system. After you read them all, you'll know all about NaCl. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 10:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt Hi Steve, Thanks for clarifying that. The salt topic has darn near caused some fish groups to implode. Unfortunately we will probably hear more on this topic in the next couple days. Let's hope it does not degrade into a big argument. -Mike In a message dated 6/8/2008 8:05:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> writes: Iodized salt is just fine. Another myth in the hobby banning the use of something that may be useful in certain circumstances. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1489 - Release Date: 6/7/2008 11:17 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28257	From: jackcollora	Date: 6/8/2008
Subject: nano cube stocking/ questions bout salt water

i am going to get the nano cube and i was wondering what are some ideas of fish to get also what do they eat? i was thinking like a clown or some thing like that. im planing to get the 24 gallon. thanks -jack p.s. if you say just resurch i will be mad because quiet frankly im doing that but this is part of my resurch

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28258	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: algae

I have a new algae that has formed in my tank - it's attached itself to the mangrove root and it's bright green, about 1/4" long and fan shaped. This tank has been up and running for about 2 months now. I can't seem to find out an ID for this algae or how to combat it....any help? Thanks! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28259	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: algae

Hi Shari, Here's a few pages I have in my favorites with lots of pictures of various algae. If you don't see it on these, it may not be algae. It could be a type of mold or fungi which commonly will grow on wood in aquaria. http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 http://aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/ http://faq.thekrib.com/algae.html#types http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm http://www.freewebs.com/thefishgirl/algea.htm http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 5:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] algae I have a new algae that has formed in my tank - it's attached itself to the mangrove root and it's bright green, about 1/4" long and fan shaped. This tank has been up and running for about 2 months now. I can't seem to find out an ID for this algae or how to combat it....any help? Thanks! Shari No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1490 - Release Date: 6/8/2008 5:32 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1490 - Release Date: 6/8/2008 5:32 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28260	From: olesonjo	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: PWC

Yesterday, I did a serious partial water change, and really dug the tube down into the gravel, and WOW! I really got the dirt out. The water is so clean, and the fish are so happy now. :-) Also, a little while ago, some one posted a link to a You-tube of their tank with the flower pots with holes, that the fish were swimming in and out of. I put in a big old conch shell with a big hole, and I saw one of my fish swim through it! So, life is getting better for my fancy gold fish. Thanks, Joanna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28261	From: Jim	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice

All, Thank you all for your advice on my situation. I will try a combination of the ideas you all suggested. To answer Lenny's question, I am located in the Washington, DC, area. I will go back to Craigslist and see if I can find someone who might want the fish and/or fish tank. I thought I read somewhere on the Web site that they have a policy where people are not supposed to be selling food items or live animals. If this is there policy, then it looks like people aren't listening. ;) - Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <rjames1973@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I have a 20 gallon freshwater tank stocked with six Giant Danios and > one Chinese Algae Eater. I am going to be moving in about a month and > may have to get rid of my fish and fish tank. Can anyone give me any > advice on how I might get rid of my fish? I know people sell fish tanks > on Craigslist, but how would I go about getting rid of a fish that are > in perfect health? I don't think people are supposed to sell animals on > Craigslist. If anyone could help me with this, I would really > appreciate it. Thanks! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28262	From: Robb	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Advice on pumps

Hi all, I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to maintenance. Thanks, Robb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28263	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps

Hi Robb, By chance did you mean freshwater tank? When you say pump do you mean filter? Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. -Mike Hi all, I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to maintenance. Thanks, Robb -----Original Message----- From: Robb <sanuriel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 4:59 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice on pumps Hi all, I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to maintenance. Thanks, Robb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28264	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Spare Aquarium Use

That s totally cool.I wonder what the heat specs on that are. I used to do a lot of overclocking. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 4:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Spare Aquarium Use Now, I realize it is not every day you have a spare Eclipse 6 hanging around waiting for you to do something with it, but, just in case you do, and you really want to put it to use, you might want to see how you can put a computer in it. Check out this YouTube video: http://www.youtube <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOgptvjwng8> com/watch?v=ZOgptvjwng8 \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28265	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice

Check out http://www.pvas.com They had a meeting tonight so the next one may be too far out to be of any use to you. Depending on where you are, you could try SCALES Tropical Fish Warehouse at 744 Cloverly Street, Cloverly, MD, to see if they will take your fish. The guys who run the place are hobbyists. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 2:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Advice All, Thank you all for your advice on my situation. I will try a combination of the ideas you all suggested. To answer Lenny's question, I am located in the Washington, DC, area. I will go back to Craigslist and see if I can find someone who might want the fish and/or fish tank. I thought I read somewhere on the Web site that they have a policy where people are not supposed to be selling food items or live animals. If this is there policy, then it looks like people aren't listening. ;) - Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <rjames1973@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I have a 20 gallon freshwater tank stocked with six Giant Danios and > one Chinese Algae Eater. I am going to be moving in about a month and > may have to get rid of my fish and fish tank. Can anyone give me any > advice on how I might get rid of my fish? I know people sell fish tanks > on Craigslist, but how would I go about getting rid of a fish that are > in perfect health? I don't think people are supposed to sell animals on > Craigslist. If anyone could help me with this, I would really > appreciate it. Thanks! > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28266	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Salt

Hi Barbara, Yes, adding salt is highly debatable, although it should be known that it is not necessary for most freshwater fishes. It does seem to be beneficial fot Mollies however, and most seem to enjoy it regardless of the conditions they were raised in (with or without salt) even if they don't need it. One key here is knowing how much salt to add in the presence of your other fish, if you refer using it. Cory's do not like a lot of salt, although a token amount won't faze your Gourami's. I'm not sure if you're meaning Swordtails or Sword Plants when you mention your "swords," but since you're concerned about your plants, Sword Plants do not necessarily enjoy a lot of salt. Most freshwater aquatic plants can do without salt altogether and will be better for it. Swordtails, on the other hand, seem to do better with an increase in TDS as salt will offer (and especially with an increase in hardness, which only marine salt can offer). You will not be depriving your fish of electrolytes if you decide on not using salt, as freshwater fisgh have their own built-in mechanism (via the gills) to regulate an osmotic pressure balance. With open wounds, where this osmotic pressure cannot be controlled, it is most beneficial to add some salts. The normal amount of salts those hobbyists preferring the use of salt to be added is one Tablespoon per 5 gallons. This amounbt will not harm plabnts or salt-sensitive fish, yet will still constitute a certain presence of this substance. I noticed you bought "aquarium salt," which essentially is plain table salt (sodium chloride), unless by that you meant marine salt for use in salt water aquariums. The packaged "aquarium salt" marketed and sold in your LFS is priced much higher than other similar salt you can buy in the supermarket for human consumption. When using this salt (plain sodium chloride) there is no reason to spend the extra mony purchasing it labeled for aquarium use, its all the same thing. Most, if not all, table salt (for human consumption) now contains a trtace amount of iodine; this subject has already been adequately discussed here and the minute amount of it being used is absolutely harmless to fish. Instead, I would be more concerned with the anit- caking agents added to table salt, and although this too may be deemed as being harmless to aquarium fish by many aquarists, possibly including your peers here, I am still concerned with this matter as there are various additives used in table salt for this purpose, as -- calcium silicate, aluminum silicate, yellow prussiate of soda -- sodium ferrocyanide (Na4FE, or - C6FeN6Na4), magnesium carbonate and synthetic tricalcium phosphate, you take your pick. Not knowing which of these additives may be harmless or harmful, I would rather avoid them altogether (as most chemicals should be avoided in the aquarium anyway) and so prefer to use plain Kosher salt (specifically, Diamond Crystal brand) for most applications in treating those diseases where salt may aid them. For permanent use of salts, as appears you may be intending, I would prefer using a marine salt mix -- it having all of the trace elements necessary for life as found within the body of a fish, even though not found in the same proportions, and of more benefit towards the electrolyte issue if that's your concern, as a result of its make-up. Only Himalayan Pink Crystal Salt would be closer in containg the trace elements in proportions closer to that found in the tissues of fishes. This earlier marine salt, as was present in the pre-Cambrian/Palaeozoic era, is now found at elevations of 10,000' as a result of the obduction process of the particular plate tectonics in that area. Having had less time in a geological sense to have accumulated added trace metals and minerals (as are now found in sea water), this salt more closely reflects the properties of living tissues as they evolved in it. It is available! BTW, please do not discontinue signing your name to your posts; we enjoy the more personal atmosphere of our members in this Forum as being one big family, thanks. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> wrote: > > Well, today I bought another female molly to add to my pair and was > told that they had beem raised with salt added to their water, so I > bought aquarium salt - did a PWC - only 6g out of 30 and added salt. I > know that is a minuscule amount - know that adding salt is debatable, > and wondered if I should continue to add salt? The initial pair never > seemed to suffer from lack of salt - I don't want to hurt my plants or > other fish (5 invincible ZDs, swords, corys and honey gouramis) but I > don't want to deprive the fish of the added benefit of supposed > electrolytes (according to the box). >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28267	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Saot and tetras

There is just one thing I want to know about salt. What is the maximum concentration of it that tetras can tolerate? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28268	From: Robb	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps

No, I meant saltwater...and yes you are correct I mean filter. I've tried a pre-filter sponge before as well, but it really restricted my flow. I'll be honest I don't know much, so my verbage may be incorrect. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Robb, > > By chance did you mean freshwater tank? > > When you say pump do you mean filter? > > Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. > > -Mike > > > > Hi all, > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > maintenance. > > Thanks, > > Robb > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robb <sanuriel@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 4:59 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice on pumps > > > > > > > Hi all, > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > maintenance. > > Thanks, > > Robb > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28269	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps

Robb, I would have thought you meant freshwater also, the same as what Mike suspected. Plecos and African Cichlids are freshwater fish and should not be placed in salt water as it appears you are saying you did here -- if you're insisting this is now a salt water tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robb" <sanuriel@...> wrote: > > No, I meant saltwater...and yes you are correct I mean filter. I've > tried a pre-filter sponge before as well, but it really restricted my > flow. > > I'll be honest I don't know much, so my verbage may be incorrect. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Hi Robb, > > > > By chance did you mean freshwater tank? > > > > When you say pump do you mean filter? > > > > Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This > can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The > sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > maintenance. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robb <sanuriel@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 4:59 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice on pumps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > maintenance. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: PWC

Remember that goldfish get very large and fat so it's best to NOT have things that they might get caught in one day. Keep an eye on these potential traps as your fish grow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 3:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PWC Yesterday, I did a serious partial water change, and really dug the tube down into the gravel, and WOW! I really got the dirt out. The water is so clean, and the fish are so happy now. :-) Also, a little while ago, some one posted a link to a You-tube of their tank with the flower pots with holes, that the fish were swimming in and out of. I put in a big old conch shell with a big hole, and I saw one of my fish swim through it! So, life is getting better for my fancy gold fish. Thanks, Joanna No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.1.0/1492 - Release Date: 6/9/2008 10:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice

Hey.. I figure if the Pro's and Con's (prostitutes and con-artists) can use Craigslist to market their "services", then I wouldn't worry too much about a policy violation on selling a few live fish. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Advice All, Thank you all for your advice on my situation. I will try a combination of the ideas you all suggested. To answer Lenny's question, I am located in the Washington, DC, area. I will go back to Craigslist and see if I can find someone who might want the fish and/or fish tank. I thought I read somewhere on the Web site that they have a policy where people are not supposed to be selling food items or live animals. If this is there policy, then it looks like people aren't listening. ;) - Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim" <rjames1973@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I have a 20 gallon freshwater tank stocked with six Giant Danios and > one Chinese Algae Eater. I am going to be moving in about a month and > may have to get rid of my fish and fish tank. Can anyone give me any > advice on how I might get rid of my fish? I know people sell fish tanks > on Craigslist, but how would I go about getting rid of a fish that are > in perfect health? I don't think people are supposed to sell animals on > Craigslist. If anyone could help me with this, I would really > appreciate it. Thanks! > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.1.0/1492 - Release Date: 6/9/2008 10:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28272	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: books

Myron, As Steve already mentioned, the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume I is well recommended, but I would like to add a couple of other excellent pieces of aquarium literature which I'm sure you'd find extremely useful. Since you mentioned "bible," it was the Dr. William T. Innes book (in its numerous editions) that was referred to as the "bible" of the aquarium hobby, from its inception in 1935 until its first revised 19th edition published by the Innes publishing Company in 1963. Several other editions have been published after this time, but not as well done. If you could find one of the original editions having the green leatherette cover, you will not be disappointed -- with the exception only of the nitrogen cycle (little known at that time), this book covers everything you'll need to know for aquarium maintenance and descriptions of hundreds of the most popular aquarium fishes, with numerous color plates; its entitled -- "Exotic Aquarium Fishes." One other book I can highly recommend (and another one of my favorites), and also an older publication, is "Freshwater Fishes of the World," by Gunther Sterba and published by The Pet Library, Ltd. (1962, '63, '66 and '67), an English printing firm. Such excellent sources of information on the hobby will never be obsolete as they address the basics of the hobby, in depth. They can be found as used fairly frequently on eBay. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "myronbarefoot" <bluemoon331@...> wrote: > > Hi, does anybody in the group have any suggestions on an all- > around "bible" for trouble-shooting/maintenence of aquariums? and on > fish species profiles? Thanks in advance. > Myron >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28273	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice

Lenny, I agree with you 100%, however the PeTA pet killers and the HSUS sheep practically spend every waking moment on the pet list flagging anything that remotely looks like an animal sale. Most of the time you have to use the word "Adoption fee" to get away with selling a pet on CL. Try to post anything negative, the truth, about PETA and HSUS and you not only get flagged you get violent hatemail in your inbox. Some very mentally disturbed people on there. -Mike Hey.. I figure if the Pro's and Con's (prostitutes and con-artists) can use raigslist to market their "services", then I wouldn't worry too much about policy violation on selling a few live fish. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 8:38 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Advice Hey.. I figure if the Pro's and Con's (prostitutes and con-artists) can use raigslist to market their "services", then I wouldn't worry too much about policy violation on selling a few live fish. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives Year, Month and under Labels) ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On ehalf Of Jim ent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:17 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ubject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Advice All, Thank you all for your advice on my situation. I will try a combination of he ideas you all suggested. To answer Lenny's question, I am located in the Washington, DC, area. I will o back to Craigslist and see if I can find someone who might want the fish nd/or fish tank. I thought I read somewhere on the Web site that they have policy where people are not supposed to be selling food items or live nimals. If this is there policy, then it looks like people aren't istening. ;) - Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Jim" <rjames1973@...> wrote: Hi, I have a 20 gallon freshwater tank stocked with six Giant Danios and one Chinese Algae Eater. I am going to be moving in about a month and may have to get rid of my fish and fish tank. Can anyone give me any advice on how I might get rid of my fish? I know people sell fish anks on Craigslist, but how would I go about getting rid of a fish that re in perfect health? I don't think people are supposed to sell animals n Craigslist. If anyone could help me with this, I would really appreciate it. Thanks! No virus found in this outgoing message. hecked by AVG. ersion: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.1.0/1492 - Release Date: 6/9/2008 0:29 AM ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28274	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt

Hi Mike, Somehow I don't feel as though the salt topic will escalate into any kind of an argument as I believe we're all in accord with it. For the newer members here, I'm sure they'll wisely take this as a learning experience. There may be some controvery in my personal reluctance towards anti-caking agents, but then there are many older hobbyists much more learned than any of us (or all of us put together!) who also take the same stance of not adding chemicals to your tanks unnecessarily, and these hobbyists are world-reknown. While on this salt topic, I'd like to take this opportunity to sincerely apologize for the numerous typos in my recent post on this topic -- not that it may not happen again, but it was excessive. In re-reading it after it was up, all's I can say is -- OUCH . . . and OUCH! I had typed this same reply earlier today, only to have my very flakey computor time out while I was still composing it, knocking me off line (any losing it all). I did not want to risk the time proofreading it again and possibly being timed out again, so I sent it as was, hoping for the best. I'm not really as bad a speller as it appeared (well, not ALL that bad, <G>) but my fat (read: clumsy) fingers sometimes hit two adjacent keys or don't sufficiently depress an occasional key. Well, you know the rest. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Hi Steve, > > Thanks for clarifying that. > > The salt topic has darn near caused some fish groups to implode. > > Unfortunately we will probably hear more on this topic in the next couple > days. Let's hope it does not degrade into a big argument. > > -Mike > > > In a message dated 6/8/2008 8:05:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > steve@... writes: > > > > > Iodized salt is just fine. Another myth in the hobby banning the use of > something that may be useful in certain circumstances. > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4? &NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28275	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps

Robb, Just so I can make things a little more clear. Do you have two aquariums and one is Saltwater and one is Freshwater? As Ray mentioned, the fish you listed are not saltwater fish. The African Cichlids from the Rift Lakes, Tanganyika and Malawi, can handle a higher salt ratio than many other freshwater species can, but no where near a saltwater environment. Did someone by chance mention that Cichlids are Saltwater or Brackish fish? If so they are so very wrong. The plecostomus however cannot handle a salt environment. They come from a salt free environment with a very low pH. They can adjust to a higher pH but NOT to a salt environment. Very concerned about your fish. -Mike No, I meant saltwater...and yes you are correct I mean filter. I've tried a pre-filter sponge before as well, but it really restricted my flow. I'll be honest I don't know much, so my verbage may be incorrect. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Robb, > > By chance did you mean freshwater tank? > > When you say pump do you mean filter? > > Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. > > -Mike > > > > Hi all, > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > maintenance. -----Original Message----- From: Robb <sanuriel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 7:47 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice on pumps No, I meant saltwater...and yes you are correct I mean filter. I've tried a pre-filter sponge before as well, but it really restricted my flow. I'll be honest I don't know much, so my verbage may be incorrect. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Robb, > > By chance did you mean freshwater tank? > > When you say pump do you mean filter? > > Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. > > -Mike > > > > Hi all, > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > maintenance. > > Thanks, > > Robb > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robb <sanuriel@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 4:59 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice on pumps > > > > > > > Hi all, > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > maintenance. > > Thanks, > > Robb > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28276	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sa

Hi Ray, No problems at all :) I was just a bit paranoid about the salt topic. Seen too many arguments about it. Glad we are all on the same page or chapter of the book. Although still a new guy to fish, 7 ish years? I am moving further away from chemicals every year. Had that pH crash bounce thing and dropped that like a bad habit once I learned about Buffer and pH swings killing fish. I have the same typing issues as you :) Don't worry a bit about it. Talk with you later, Mike Hi Mike, Somehow I don't feel as though the salt topic will escalate into any kind of an argument as I believe we're all in accord with it. For the newer members here, I'm sure they'll wisely take this as a learning experience. There may be some controvery in my personal reluctance towards anti-caking agents, but then there are many older hobbyists much more learned than any of us (or all of us put together!) who also take the same stance of not adding chemicals to your tanks unnecessarily, and these hobbyists are world-reknown. While on this salt topic, I'd like to take this opportunity to sincerely apologize for the numerous typos in my recent post on this topic -- not that it may not happen again, but it was excessive. In re-reading it after it was up, all's I can say is -- OUCH . . . and OUCH! I had typed this same reply earlier today, only to have my very flakey computor time out while I was still composing it, knocking me off line (any losing it all). I did not want to risk the time proofreading it again and possibly being timed out again, so I sent it as was, hoping for the best. I'm not really as bad a speller as it appeared (well, not ALL that bad, <G>) but my fat (read: clumsy) fingers sometimes hit two adjacent keys or don't sufficiently depress an occasional key. Well, you know the rest. Ray -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 9:55 pm Subject: Topic of much discussion and argument. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt Hi Mike, Somehow I don't feel as though the salt topic will escalate into any kind of an argument as I believe we're all in accord with it. For the newer members here, I'm sure they'll wisely take this as a learning experience. There may be some controvery in my personal reluctance towards anti-caking agents, but then there are many older hobbyists much more learned than any of us (or all of us put together!) who also take the same stance of not adding chemicals to your tanks unnecessarily, and these hobbyists are world-reknown. While on this salt topic, I'd like to take this opportunity to sincerely apologize for the numerous typos in my recent post on this topic -- not that it may not happen again, but it was excessive. In re-reading it after it was up, all's I can say is -- OUCH . . . and OUCH! I had typed this same reply earlier today, only to have my very flakey computor time out while I was still composing it, knocking me off line (any losing it all). I did not want to risk the time proofreading it again and possibly being timed out again, so I sent it as was, hoping for the best. I'm not really as bad a speller as it appeared (well, not ALL that bad, <G>) but my fat (read: clumsy) fingers sometimes hit two adjacent keys or don't sufficiently depress an occasional key. Well, you know the rest. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Hi Steve, > > Thanks for clarifying that. > > The salt topic has darn near caused some fish groups to implode. > > Unfortunately we will probably hear more on this topic in the next couple > days. Let's hope it does not degrade into a big argument. > > -Mike > > > In a message dated 6/8/2008 8:05:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > steve@... writes: > > > > > Iodized salt is just fine. Another myth in the hobby banning the use of > something that may be useful in certain circumstances. > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4? &NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28277	From: Robb	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps

It was made to my understanding that I needed to use Cichlid Lake Salt. I use some by a company Seachem, beyond that I don't do anything else except use Prime on water changes. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Robb, > > Just so I can make things a little more clear. > > Do you have two aquariums and one is Saltwater and one is Freshwater? > > As Ray mentioned, the fish you listed are not saltwater fish. The African Cichlids from the Rift Lakes, Tanganyika and Malawi, can handle a higher salt ratio than many other freshwater species can, but no where near a saltwater environment. > Did someone by chance mention that Cichlids are Saltwater or Brackish fish? If so they are so very wrong. > > The plecostomus however cannot handle a salt environment. They come from a salt free environment with a very low pH. They can adjust to a higher pH but NOT to a salt environment. > > Very concerned about your fish. > > -Mike > > > > > > > > No, I meant saltwater...and yes you are correct I mean filter. I've > tried a pre-filter sponge before as well, but it really restricted my > flow. > > I'll be honest I don't know much, so my verbage may be incorrect. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Hi Robb, > > > > By chance did you mean freshwater tank? > > > > When you say pump do you mean filter? > > > > Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This > can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The > sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > maintenance. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robb <sanuriel@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 7:47 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice on pumps > > > > > > > No, I meant saltwater...and yes you are correct I mean filter. I've > tried a pre-filter sponge before as well, but it really restricted my > flow. > > I'll be honest I don't know much, so my verbage may be incorrect. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Hi Robb, > > > > By chance did you mean freshwater tank? > > > > When you say pump do you mean filter? > > > > Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This > can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The > sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > maintenance. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robb <sanuriel@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 4:59 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice on pumps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > maintenance. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28278	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps

Hearing that is a major relief. What you have is a Freshwater tank, despite the addition of the cichlid salts. Sometimes these can be considered trace elements. Now on to the pump problem. Is this a filter for filtration or a water pump for circulation? Either way a sponge on the intake can keep it from clogging. As far as filters go, my preference is for air driven sponge filters or Hang on Back power filters, specifically the Aqua Clear brand. -Mike It was made to my understanding that I needed to use Cichlid Lake Salt. I use some by a company Seachem, beyond that I don't do anything else except use Prime on water changes. -----Original Message----- From: Robb <sanuriel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 10:28 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice on pumps It was made to my understanding that I needed to use Cichlid Lake Salt. I use some by a company Seachem, beyond that I don't do anything else except use Prime on water changes. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Robb, > > Just so I can make things a little more clear. > > Do you have two aquariums and one is Saltwater and one is Freshwater? > > As Ray mentioned, the fish you listed are not saltwater fish. The African Cichlids from the Rift Lakes, Tanganyika and Malawi, can handle a higher salt ratio than many other freshwater species can, but no where near a saltwater environment. > Did someone by chance mention that Cichlids are Saltwater or Brackish fish? If so they are so very wrong. > > The plecostomus however cannot handle a salt environment. They come from a salt free environment with a very low pH. They can adjust to a higher pH but NOT to a salt environment. > > Very concerned about your fish. > > -Mike > > > > > > > > No, I meant saltwater...and yes you are correct I mean filter. I've > tried a pre-filter sponge before as well, but it really restricted my > flow. > > I'll be honest I don't know much, so my verbage may be incorrect. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Hi Robb, > > > > By chance did you mean freshwater tank? > > > > When you say pump do you mean filter? > > > > Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This > can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The > sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > maintenance. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robb <sanuriel@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 7:47 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice on pumps > > > > > > > No, I meant saltwater...and yes you are correct I mean filter. I've > tried a pre-filter sponge before as well, but it really restricted my > flow. > > I'll be honest I don't know much, so my verbage may be incorrect. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Hi Robb, > > > > By chance did you mean freshwater tank? > > > > When you say pump do you mean filter? > > > > Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This > can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The > sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > maintenance. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robb <sanuriel@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 4:59 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice on pumps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > maintenance. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28279	From: Robb	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps

Ahh, thanks Mike. Yea I'm using a Penguin 170 right now. It was a used set by a friend of mine who has numerous tanks, and was ready to rid himself of one. The impeller is in ok shape as one of the fins is missing. I've put the sponge on in the past, but my flow gets worse. I'm hoping to find something that just yields better results. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hearing that is a major relief. > > What you have is a Freshwater tank,

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28280	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps

Hi Robb, If the impeller is missing a fin it is not really good. Kind of like a fan missing a blade. It is out of balance. Or a tire that is out of balance on a car can do a lot of damage to a car long term. In this case the missing fin can make the impeller wear down the side of the magnet housing it rests in or cause wear and tear on the motor. As far as the sponge on the intake, it is clogging and slowing your flow down instead of the impeller or intake tube clogging. You might try a different sponge, some thing that has larger pores or flows water better than what you have tried in the past. I also use a couple 170 Biowheel filters and they are a pretty good filter. As I metioned in one of the other posts my favorite Hang on back is the AquaClear filter. _http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp19169/si1378653/cl0/aquaclear50powerfilter_ (http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp19169/si1378653/cl0/aquaclear50powerfilter) They do come in four sizes. They hang on the back of the tank like your Biowheel filter only they use a sponge as the filter and the sponge also contains all of your beneficial bacteria. Which is different than the biowheel. The biowheel contains a majority of your beneficial bacteria and the cartridge you replace also has the beneficial bacteria but it is wasted when you toss the cartridge. Many aquarists, myself included, clean the cartridges and reuse them. With the Aquaclear filter it is very important that you never rinse the filter in tap water or any other water that still has chorine or chloramine. I use old tank water in a bucket and just wring it out in my hand in the bucket of old tank water. Then place it back in the filter and it is ready to go again and still retains all the bacteria you need. If you look around you may find one on sale locally or at one of the many online retailers, maybe even ebay or aquabid.com -Mike In a message dated 6/10/2008 12:24:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sanuriel@... writes: Ahh, thanks Mike. Yea I'm using a Penguin 170 right now. It was a used set by a friend of mine who has numerous tanks, and was ready to rid himself of one. The impeller is in ok shape as one of the fins is missing. I've put the sponge on in the past, but my flow gets worse. I'm hoping to find something that just yields better results. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28281	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice

Thanks for the heads-up. I might just have to start posting a few faux animal for-sale ads just to get their panties in a bunch. LOL Maybe I'll even "sell" some "former fighting pit-bulls missing various limbs for 25% off" too. That should really give them something to do! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 11:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Advice Lenny, I agree with you 100%, however the PeTA pet killers and the HSUS sheep practically spend every waking moment on the pet list flagging anything that remotely looks like an animal sale. Most of the time you have to use the word "Adoption fee" to get away with selling a pet on CL. Try to post anything negative, the truth, about PETA and HSUS and you not only get flagged you get violent hatemail in your inbox. Some very mentally disturbed people on there. -Mike Hey.. I figure if the Pro's and Con's (prostitutes and con-artists) can use raigslist to market their "services", then I wouldn't worry too much about policy violation on selling a few live fish. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 8:38 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Advice Hey.. I figure if the Pro's and Con's (prostitutes and con-artists) can use raigslist to market their "services", then I wouldn't worry too much about policy violation on selling a few live fish. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives Year, Month and under Labels) ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On ehalf Of Jim ent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:17 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ubject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Advice All, Thank you all for your advice on my situation. I will try a combination of he ideas you all suggested. To answer Lenny's question, I am located in the Washington, DC, area. I will o back to Craigslist and see if I can find someone who might want the fish nd/or fish tank. I thought I read somewhere on the Web site that they have policy where people are not supposed to be selling food items or live nimals. If this is there policy, then it looks like people aren't istening. ;) - Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Jim" <rjames1973@...> wrote: Hi, I have a 20 gallon freshwater tank stocked with six Giant Danios and one Chinese Algae Eater. I am going to be moving in about a month and may have to get rid of my fish and fish tank. Can anyone give me any advice on how I might get rid of my fish? I know people sell fish anks on Craigslist, but how would I go about getting rid of a fish that re in perfect health? I don't think people are supposed to sell animals n Craigslist. If anyone could help me with this, I would really appreciate it. Thanks! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1493 - Release Date: 6/9/2008 5:25 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28282	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice

It really does get their undergarments in a twist. : ) Their shady leaders at PeTA and HSUS are actively working on eliminating pet ownership. Fish are not too far off on their agenda. -Mike In a message dated 6/10/2008 1:41:57 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Thanks for the heads-up. I might just have to start posting a few faux animal for-sale ads just to get their panties in a bunch. LOL Maybe I'll even "sell" some "former fighting pit-bulls missing various limbs for 25% off" too. That should really give them something to do! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28283	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: books

Ray, I agree with you about Innes, but, the book is becoming harder to find, and I also find that many people who are new to the hobby have a tendency to turn up their noses at the book for any number of reasons, none of which I think is a really good reason. If fish are kept they way Innes recommends, knowledge of the nitrogen cycle is not really that important. It will occur, and everything will be well. It will also give the reader an insight on how things used to be done, which may very well be helpful to lead them into how some things are done today. FWIW, I own several editions of the book, the earliest being the 4th edition, and the latest the 19th revised, published by Metaframe. My working copy has the binding held together with tape. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: books Myron, As Steve already mentioned, the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume I is well recommended, but I would like to add a couple of other excellent pieces of aquarium literature which I'm sure you'd find extremely useful. Since you mentioned "bible," it was the Dr. William T. Innes book (in its numerous editions) that was referred to as the "bible" of the aquarium hobby, from its inception in 1935 until its first revised 19th edition published by the Innes publishing Company in 1963. Several other editions have been published after this time, but not as well done. If you could find one of the original editions having the green leatherette cover, you will not be disappointed -- with the exception only of the nitrogen cycle (little known at that time), this book covers everything you'll need to know for aquarium maintenance and descriptions of hundreds of the most popular aquarium fishes, with numerous color plates; its entitled -- "Exotic Aquarium Fishes." One other book I can highly recommend (and another one of my favorites), and also an older publication, is "Freshwater Fishes of the World," by Gunther Sterba and published by The Pet Library, Ltd. (1962, '63, '66 and '67), an English printing firm. Such excellent sources of information on the hobby will never be obsolete as they address the basics of the hobby, in depth. They can be found as used fairly frequently on eBay. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "myronbarefoot" <bluemoon331@...> wrote: > > Hi, does anybody in the group have any suggestions on an all- > around "bible" for trouble-shooting/maintenence of aquariums? and on > fish species profiles? Thanks in advance. > Myron > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28284	From: Robb	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps

Hey I really appreciate the help, after looking through the photo gallery, I might start next asking for advice on terrain. I've never really had much in my tank, and the ones in the gallery look incredible. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Hi Robb, > > If the impeller is missing a fin it is not really good. Kind of like a fan > missing a blade. It is out of balance. Or a tire that is out of balance on a > car can do a lot of damage to a car long term. In this case the missing fin can > make the impeller wear down the side of the magnet housing it rests in or > cause wear and tear on the motor. > > As far as the sponge on the intake, it is clogging and slowing your flow > down instead of the impeller or intake tube clogging. You might try a different > sponge, some thing that has larger pores or flows water better than what you > have tried in the past. > > I also use a couple 170 Biowheel filters and they are a pretty good filter. > As I metioned in one of the other posts my favorite Hang on back is the > AquaClear filter. > _http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp19169/si1378653/cl0/aquaclear50powerfilter_ > (http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp19169/si1378653/cl0/aquaclear50powerfilter) They do come in four sizes. > > They hang on the back of the tank like your Biowheel filter only they use a > sponge as the filter and the sponge also contains all of your beneficial > bacteria. Which is different than the biowheel. The biowheel contains a majority > of your beneficial bacteria and the cartridge you replace also has the > beneficial bacteria but it is wasted when you toss the cartridge. Many aquarists, > myself included, clean the cartridges and reuse them. > > With the Aquaclear filter it is very important that you never rinse the > filter in tap water or any other water that still has chorine or chloramine. I > use old tank water in a bucket and just wring it out in my hand in the bucket of > old tank water. Then place it back in the filter and it is ready to go again > and still retains all the bacteria you need. > > If you look around you may find one on sale locally or at one of the many > online retailers, maybe even ebay or aquabid.com > > -Mike > > > In a message dated 6/10/2008 12:24:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > sanuriel@... writes: > > Ahh, thanks Mike. Yea I'm using a Penguin 170 right now. It was a used > set by a friend of mine who has numerous tanks, and was ready to rid > himself of one. The impeller is in ok shape as one of the fins is > missing. > > I've put the sponge on in the past, but my flow gets worse. I'm hoping > to find something that just yields better results. > > > > > > > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best > 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28285	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Salt

Thanks Ray - for the information and your kindly manner. Sorry I opened that kettle of fish. g> Barbara In a message dated 6/9/2008 11:08:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sevenspringss@... writes: Hi Barbara, Yes, adding salt is highly debatable, although it should be known that it is not necessary for most freshwater fishes. It does seem to be beneficial fot Mollies however, and most seem to enjoy it regardless of the conditions they were raised in (with or without salt) even if they don't need it. One key here is knowing how much salt to add in the presence of your other fish, if you refer using it. Cory's do not like a lot of salt, although a token amount won't faze your Gourami's. I'm not sure if you're meaning Swordtails or Sword Plants when you mention your "swords," but since you're concerned about your plants, Sword Plants do not necessarily enjoy a lot of salt. Most freshwater aquatic plants can do without salt altogether and will be better for it. Swordtails, on the other hand, seem to do better with an increase in TDS as salt will offer (and especially with an increase in hardness, which only marine salt can offer). You will not be depriving your fish of electrolytes if you decide on not using salt, as freshwater fisgh have their own built-in mechanism (via the gills) to regulate an osmotic pressure balance. With open wounds, where this osmotic pressure cannot be controlled, it is most beneficial to add some salts. The normal amount of salts those hobbyists preferring the use of salt to be added is one Tablespoon per 5 gallons. This amounbt will not harm plabnts or salt-sensitive fish, yet will still constitute a certain presence of this substance. I noticed you bought "aquarium salt," which essentially is plain table salt (sodium chloride), unless by that you meant marine salt for use in salt water aquariums. The packaged "aquarium salt" marketed and sold in your LFS is priced much higher than other similar salt you can buy in the supermarket for human consumption. When using this salt (plain sodium chloride) there is no reason to spend the extra mony purchasing it labeled for aquarium use, its all the same thing. Most, if not all, table salt (for human consumption) now contains a trtace amount of iodine; this subject has already been adequately discussed here and the minute amount of it being used is absolutely harmless to fish. Instead, I would be more concerned with the anit- caking agents added to table salt, and although this too may be deemed as being harmless to aquarium fish by many aquarists, possibly including your peers here, I am still concerned with this matter as there are various additives used in table salt for this purpose, as -- calcium silicate, aluminum silicate, yellow prussiate of soda -- sodium ferrocyanide (Na4FE, or - C6FeN6Na4), magnesium carbonate and synthetic tricalcium phosphate, you take your pick. Not knowing which of these additives may be harmless or harmful, I would rather avoid them altogether (as most chemicals should be avoided in the aquarium anyway) and so prefer to use plain Kosher salt (specifically, Diamond Crystal brand) for most applications in treating those diseases where salt may aid them. For permanent use of salts, as appears you may be intending, I would prefer using a marine salt mix -- it having all of the trace elements necessary for life as found within the body of a fish, even though not found in the same proportions, and of more benefit towards the electrolyte issue if that's your concern, as a result of its make-up. Only Himalayan Pink Crystal Salt would be closer in containg the trace elements in proportions closer to that found in the tissues of fishes. This earlier marine salt, as was present in the pre-Cambrian/Palaeozoic era, is now found at elevations of 10,000' as a result of the obduction process of the particular plate tectonics in that area. Having had less time in a geological sense to have accumulated added trace metals and minerals (as are now found in sea water), this salt more closely reflects the properties of living tissues as they evolved in it. It is available! BTW, please do not discontinue signing your name to your posts; we enjoy the more personal atmosphere of our members in this Forum as being one big family, thanks. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> wrote: > > Well, today I bought another female molly to add to my pair and was > told that they had beem raised with salt added to their water, so I > bought aquarium salt - did a PWC - only 6g out of 30 and added salt. I > know that is a minuscule amount - know that adding salt is debatable, > and wondered if I should continue to add salt? The initial pair never > seemed to suffer from lack of salt - I don't want to hurt my plants or > other fish (5 invincible ZDs, swords, corys and honey gouramis) but I > don't want to deprive the fish of the added benefit of supposed > electrolytes (according to the box). **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28286	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps

What is your pH out of the tap? You may or may not need Cichlid Lake Salt. And there may be less expensive alternatives if you do. I keep Malawi Mbuna as well as Calvus and Lamprologus Caudopunctatus from Lake Tanganyika. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robb Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] Re: Advice on pumps It was made to my understanding that I needed to use Cichlid Lake Salt. I use some by a company Seachem, beyond that I don't do anything else except use Prime on water changes. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Robb, > > Just so I can make things a little more clear. > > Do you have two aquariums and one is Saltwater and one is Freshwater? > > As Ray mentioned, the fish you listed are not saltwater fish. The African Cichlids from the Rift Lakes, Tanganyika and Malawi, can handle a higher salt ratio than many other freshwater species can, but no where near a saltwater environment. > Did someone by chance mention that Cichlids are Saltwater or Brackish fish? If so they are so very wrong. > > The plecostomus however cannot handle a salt environment. They come from a salt free environment with a very low pH. They can adjust to a higher pH but NOT to a salt environment. > > Very concerned about your fish. > > -Mike > > > > > > > > No, I meant saltwater...and yes you are correct I mean filter. I've > tried a pre-filter sponge before as well, but it really restricted my > flow. > > I'll be honest I don't know much, so my verbage may be incorrect. > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Hi Robb, > > > > By chance did you mean freshwater tank? > > > > When you say pump do you mean filter? > > > > Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This > can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The > sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > maintenance. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robb <sanuriel@...> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 7:47 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice on pumps > > > > > > > No, I meant saltwater...and yes you are correct I mean filter. I've > tried a pre-filter sponge before as well, but it really restricted my > flow. > > I'll be honest I don't know much, so my verbage may be incorrect. > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Hi Robb, > > > > By chance did you mean freshwater tank? > > > > When you say pump do you mean filter? > > > > Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This > can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The > sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > maintenance. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robb <sanuriel@> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 4:59 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice on pumps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > maintenance. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28287	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Salt

Barbara, No apologies necessary. This (salt) is a perfectly legitimate topic to bring up and one that probably a good number of our members appreciated as being brought out into the open to hear the pro's and con's about it, and its place in the freshwater aquarium. If you still feel the need to use salt, even though you've learned its not necessary, by all means -- go ahead -- a token amount won't do any harm. For Mollies to feel any advantage of adding salt though, much more needs to be added -- which will be much more than many other species can tolerate. Still, at least a small amount is more than none. Unless a larger amount of salt than the token one Tablespoon per 5 gallons is used (which no one can do if they have salt-sensitive fish and/or plants to worry about), I doubt this amount would prevent the initial onset of Ich if the fish were stressed (substantially chilled) even if it may make it harder for this parasite. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Maxmillionmaxcat@... wrote: > > > Thanks Ray - for the information and your kindly manner. Sorry I opened that > kettle of fish. g> > Barbara > > In a message dated 6/9/2008 11:08:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > sevenspringss@... writes: > > Hi Barbara, Yes, adding salt is highly debatable, although it should > be known that it is not necessary for most freshwater fishes. It does > seem to be beneficial fot Mollies however, and most seem to enjoy it > regardless of the conditions they were raised in (with or without salt) > even if they don't need it. One key here is knowing how much salt to > add in the presence of your other fish, if you refer using it. Cory's > do not like a lot of salt, although a token amount won't faze your > Gourami's. I'm not sure if you're meaning Swordtails or Sword Plants > when you mention your "swords," but since you're concerned about your > plants, Sword Plants do not necessarily enjoy a lot of salt. Most > freshwater aquatic plants can do without salt altogether and will be > better for it. Swordtails, on the other hand, seem to do better with > an increase in TDS as salt will offer (and especially with an increase > in hardness, which only marine salt can offer). > > You will not be depriving your fish of electrolytes if you decide on > not using salt, as freshwater fisgh have their own built-in mechanism > (via the gills) to regulate an osmotic pressure balance. With open > wounds, where this osmotic pressure cannot be controlled, it is most > beneficial to add some salts. The normal amount of salts those > hobbyists preferring the use of salt to be added is one Tablespoon per > 5 gallons. This amounbt will not harm plabnts or salt-sensitive fish, > yet will still constitute a certain presence of this substance. > > I noticed you bought "aquarium salt," which essentially is plain table > salt (sodium chloride), unless by that you meant marine salt for use in > salt water aquariums. The packaged "aquarium salt" marketed and sold > in your LFS is priced much higher than other similar salt you can buy > in the supermarket for human consumption. When using this salt (plain > sodium chloride) there is no reason to spend the extra mony purchasing > it labeled for aquarium use, its all the same thing. > > Most, if not all, table salt (for human consumption) now contains a > trtace amount of iodine; this subject has already been adequately > discussed here and the minute amount of it being used is absolutely > harmless to fish. Instead, I would be more concerned with the anit- > caking agents added to table salt, and although this too may be deemed > as being harmless to aquarium fish by many aquarists, possibly > including your peers here, I am still concerned with this matter as > there are various additives used in table salt for this purpose, as -- > calcium silicate, aluminum silicate, yellow prussiate of soda -- sodium > ferrocyanide (Na4FE, or - C6FeN6Na4), magnesium carbonate and synthetic > tricalcium phosphate, you take your pick. Not knowing which of these > additives may be harmless or harmful, I would rather avoid them > altogether (as most chemicals should be avoided in the aquarium anyway) > and so prefer to use plain Kosher salt (specifically, Diamond Crystal > brand) for most applications in treating those diseases where salt may > aid them. > > For permanent use of salts, as appears you may be intending, I would > prefer using a marine salt mix -- it having all of the trace elements > necessary for life as found within the body of a fish, even though not > found in the same proportions, and of more benefit towards the > electrolyte issue if that's your concern, as a result of its make- up. > Only Himalayan Pink Crystal Salt would be closer in containg the trace > elements in proportions closer to that found in the tissues of fishes. > This earlier marine salt, as was present in the pre- Cambrian/Palaeozoic > era, is now found at elevations of 10,000' as a result of the obduction > process of the particular plate tectonics in that area. Having had > less time in a geological sense to have accumulated added trace metals > and minerals (as are now found in sea water), this salt more closely > reflects the properties of living tissues as they evolved in it. It is > available! BTW, please do not discontinue signing your name to your > posts; we enjoy the more personal atmosphere of our members in this > Forum as being one big family, thanks. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@> > wrote: > > > > Well, today I bought another female molly to add to my pair and was > > told that they had beem raised with salt added to their water, so I > > bought aquarium salt - did a PWC - only 6g out of 30 and added salt. > I > > know that is a minuscule amount - know that adding salt is debatable, > > and wondered if I should continue to add salt? The initial pair > never > > seemed to suffer from lack of salt - I don't want to hurt my plants > or > > other fish (5 invincible ZDs, swords, corys and honey gouramis) but I > > don't want to deprive the fish of the added benefit of supposed > > electrolytes (according to the box). > > > > > > > > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best > 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28288	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on pumps

Mike, I really wasn't quite sure where to interject this note since I'm replying to Robb -- but I'm also relieved to hear that these fish aren't "swimming with the fishes" (aren't in a fatal environment). I suppose it should be further pointed out that it is not to be considered as a "salt water (marine) tank" unless it contains the full compliment of marine salts to support salt water fish -- those fish that are found in the oceans. I suppose the phrase "Cichlid Lake Salt" can be misleading; obviously so in Robb's case. Then too, these "salts" that are used in Cichlid Lake Salt are not what most people consider as "salt," even though they are. A salt is the result of an anion of acid reacting with a cation of base -- or more simply put, its a metal (base) combining with a non-metal, forming a crystaline substance. Seachem's Cichlid Lake Salt contains magnesium, calcium, sodium and potassium salts (in that order, as per Seachem), along with trace compounds of iron, aluminum and iodine (oops, did I say "iodine"? yes the same substance some people have worried about in table salt). Ordinarily, I don't think too many people think of calcium, potassium or sodium as being a metal -- but they ARE! The very small recommended amounts of these "salts" to be used in Rift Lake tanks should not preclude keeping Pleco's, but higher pH levels may. For Tanganyika tanks, Seachem recommends 3/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons -- note, that's much smaller than the 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons often used with table salt. For Malawi tanks, they recommend 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons and for Victoria (not actually a Rift Lake) tanks, 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons is recommended. As can be seen, the amounts of these salts is much less than the "token" amounts of sodium chloride occasionally used by others. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hearing that is a major relief. > > What you have is a Freshwater tank, despite the addition of the cichlid salts. Sometimes these can be considered trace elements. > > Now on to the pump problem. > Is this a filter for filtration or a water pump for circulation? > > Either way a sponge on the intake can keep it from clogging. > > As far as filters go, my preference is for air driven sponge filters or Hang on Back power filters, specifically the Aqua Clear brand. > > -Mike > > > > It was made to my understanding that I needed to use Cichlid Lake > Salt. I use some by a company Seachem, beyond that I don't do anything > else except use Prime on water changes. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robb <sanuriel@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 10:28 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice on pumps > > > > > > > It was made to my understanding that I needed to use Cichlid Lake > Salt. I use some by a company Seachem, beyond that I don't do anything > else except use Prime on water changes. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Robb, > > > > Just so I can make things a little more clear. > > > > Do you have two aquariums and one is Saltwater and one is Freshwater? > > > > As Ray mentioned, the fish you listed are not saltwater fish. The > African Cichlids from the Rift Lakes, Tanganyika and Malawi, can > handle a higher salt ratio than many other freshwater species can, but > no where near a saltwater environment. > > Did someone by chance mention that Cichlids are Saltwater or > Brackish fish? If so they are so very wrong. > > > > The plecostomus however cannot handle a salt environment. They come > from a salt free environment with a very low pH. They can adjust to a > higher pH but NOT to a salt environment. > > > > Very concerned about your fish. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I meant saltwater...and yes you are correct I mean filter. I've > > tried a pre-filter sponge before as well, but it really restricted my > > flow. > > > > I'll be honest I don't know much, so my verbage may be incorrect. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Hi Robb, > > > > > > By chance did you mean freshwater tank? > > > > > > When you say pump do you mean filter? > > > > > > Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This > > can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The > > sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > > maintenance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robb <sanuriel@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 7:47 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice on pumps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I meant saltwater...and yes you are correct I mean filter. I've > > tried a pre-filter sponge before as well, but it really restricted my > > flow. > > > > I'll be honest I don't know much, so my verbage may be incorrect. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Hi Robb, > > > > > > By chance did you mean freshwater tank? > > > > > > When you say pump do you mean filter? > > > > > > Many pumps or filters you can attach a pre filter sponge to. This > > can catch debris that may break the impellor or clog the pump. The > > sponge can also act as an additional biological filter. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > > maintenance. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Robb <sanuriel@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 4:59 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice on pumps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have a tank in which I've changed to a saltwater tank. It's 29 > > > gallon, and I have 2 plecos and 2 African Cichlids (Plan on getting > > > more. Lately I've been very frustrated with my pump because it always > > > seems to clog itself very quickly. My water is clear, but I'm > > > wondering what pumps you guys use and like best when it comes to > > > maintenance. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28289	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice

Don't mention the fish. Or you might say the fish could be thrown in - I saw that in a Craigs list ad here. Or just say it's a fully set up aquarium and when people call, meniton the fish. Atleast that's my suggestion. You can always not list your aquarium at Craig's list. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Advice All, Thank you all for your advice on my situation. I will try a combination of the ideas you all suggested. To answer Lenny's question, I am located in the Washington, DC, area. I will go back to Craigslist and see if I can find someone who might want the fish and/or fish tank. I thought I read somewhere on the Web site that they have a policy where people are not supposed to be selling food items or live animals. If this is there policy, then it looks like people aren't listening. ;) - Jim 10:29 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28290	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/10/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice

LOL! Go get 'em, Lenny! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 3:41 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Advice Thanks for the heads-up. I might just have to start posting a few faux animal for-sale ads just to get their panties in a bunch. LOL Maybe I'll even "sell" some "former fighting pit-bulls missing various limbs for 25% off" too. That should really give them something to do! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28291	From: RannieSue	Date: 6/11/2008
Subject: Bookshelf Aquariums

I have been thinking of getting a freshwater bookshelf aquarium(24x9x8) (6.6gallon) but don't know how many fish to keep in it. I know I would like to have a male betta.Other than that I really don't know.Would I need a heater? And do I put gravel and sand in it? Or just gravel? Of course I would add a couple of plants and maybe one hide-out. Would the light have to be on a timer? How many algae eaters would I need? As you can see this is all new to me. And I can use all the advice I can get? It will be greater appreciated. Than-you very much. Susie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28292	From: James (Jim) Darlack	Date: 6/11/2008
Subject: Advice on large quiet air pump and chrome screw in valves

Hi Friends, I need advice for a large quiet air pump, for about 70 air lines. Also looking for the chrome valves that screw into 3/4 PVC pipe. Too many small airpumps and AC chords dangling. I would assume it is more efficient to run one large pump. Altho I know that is the single point of failure. Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28293	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on large quiet air pump and chrome screw in valves

Hi Jim, I buy my air valves at KensFish.com. Another place I am told is a great place to buy from is Jehmco.com Both of these sellers cater to people that have fish rooms. I use Sonic linear air pumps but they are not exactly quiet but they do the job on multiple lines. Below is an example of my smaller Linear air pump, which is Loud. http://cgi.ebay.com/SONIC-2204-%2F-Pond%2F--LINEAR-AIR-PUMP-2.4-cfm_W0QQitemZ300232111799QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0806091568r9955 I am told the kind I have below as an example are the quieter type. A friend works at a research center and their new fish room has pumps similar to the ones I posted examples of below, and they are fairly quiet. They appear to be covered instead of open like the my Sonic. http://www.aquacave.com/searchresult.aspx?CategoryID=69 http://www.alita.com/airpump/index.php http://www.hiblow-usa.com/products.shtml -Mike Hi Friends, I need advice for a large quiet air pump, for about 70 air lines. Also looking for the chrome valves that screw into 3/4 PVC pipe. Too many small airpumps and AC chords dangling. I would assume it is more efficient to run one large pump. Altho I know that is the single point of failure. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: James (Jim) Darlack <jmdarlack@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 7:22 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice on large quiet air pump and chrome screw in valves Hi Friends, I need advice for a large quiet air pump, for about 70 air lines. Also looking for the chrome valves that screw into 3/4 PVC pipe. Too many small airpumps and AC chords dangling. I would assume it is more efficient to run one large pump. Altho I know that is the single point of failure. Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28294	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2008
Subject: Re: Salt

Thanks again Ray - I am going to use a token amount for now and hope the mollies will forgive me. All 3 seem quite active, with the male forcing himself on the two girls. I see you mentioned that stress can be brought on by being substantially chilled. lol - it's in the 90's here in Florida and I have had to add frozen water bottles a couple times to bring the temps down in the afternoons. All the fish seem to like it - now that they are used to the cracking sound - and swim around it. Guess it's refreshing to them. Barbara In a message dated 6/10/2008 6:18:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sevenspringss@... writes: Barbara, No apologies necessary. This (salt) is a perfectly legitimate topic to bring up and one that probably a good number of our members appreciated as being brought out into the open to hear the pro's and con's about it, and its place in the freshwater aquarium. If you still feel the need to use salt, even though you've learned its not necessary, by all means -- go ahead -- a token amount won't do any harm. For Mollies to feel any advantage of adding salt though, much more needs to be added -- which will be much more than many other species can tolerate. Still, at least a small amount is more than none. Unless a larger amount of salt than the token one Tablespoon per 5 gallons is used (which no one can do if they have salt-sensitive fish and/or plants to worry about), I doubt this amount would prevent the initial onset of Ich if the fish were stressed (substantially chilled) even if it may make it harder for this parasite. Ray **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28295	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on large quiet air pump and chrome screw in valves

You would probably want to look at something like this: http://www.dtpetsupplies.com/catalog/product_info.php?language=en¤ cy=USD&products_id=734 TinyURL for your sanity: http://tinyurl.com/4brd5o \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James (Jim) Darlack Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice on large quiet air pump and chrome screw in valves Hi Friends, I need advice for a large quiet air pump, for about 70 air lines. Also looking for the chrome valves that screw into 3/4 PVC pipe. Too many small airpumps and AC chords dangling. I would assume it is more efficient to run one large pump. Altho I know that is the single point of failure. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28296	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2008
Subject: Re: Advice on large quiet air pump and chrome screw in valves

Hi Steve, That would certainly be able to handle 70 air lines but unfortunately they make noise. I have one a size or two smaller than that and it makes a good amount of noise. If you can put it outside or in another well ventilated room it would no longer be a noise issue. FWIW -Mike You would probably want to look at something like this: http://www.dtpetsupplies.com/catalog/product_info.php?language=en¤ cy=USD&products_id=734 TinyURL for your sanity: http://tinyurl.com/4brd5o \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 7:04 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Advice on large quiet air pump and chrome screw in valves You would probably want to look at something like this: http://www.dtpetsupplies.com/catalog/product_info.php?language=en¤ cy=USD&products_id=734 TinyURL for your sanity: http://tinyurl.com/4brd5o \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James (Jim) Darlack Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice on large quiet air pump and chrome screw in valves Hi Friends, I need advice for a large quiet air pump, for about 70 air lines. Also looking for the chrome valves that screw into 3/4 PVC pipe. Too many small airpumps and AC chords dangling. I would assume it is more efficient to run one large pump. Altho I know that is the single point of failure. Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28297	From: jett07002	Date: 6/12/2008
Subject: Re: Bookshelf Aquariums

Hello, Susie With only a 6 gallon tank, I think one betta is all I would put in there. Since you want to put it on a bookshelf, depending on what shelf it's going to be on ---eye level that is, in other words, how much of the tank you're going to see --- gravel, etc. is optional. Keep in mind, though, the more you put in the tank, the heavier it's going to be. Don't know what kind of book shelves you have, but it could be an un-welcomed experience to have it come crashing down. Also, do not forget you're going to have to clean it, so the less stuff in the tank, the easier it will be to clean. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "RannieSue" <sharden47@...> wrote: > > I have been thinking of getting a freshwater bookshelf aquarium(24x9x8) > (6.6gallon) but don't know how many fish to keep in it. I know I would > like to have a male betta.Other than that I really don't know.Would I > need a heater? And do I put gravel and sand in it? Or just gravel? Of > course I would add a couple of plants and maybe one hide-out. Would the > light have to be on a timer? How many algae eaters would I need? As you > can see this is all new to me. And I can use all the advice I can get? > It will be greater appreciated. Than-you very much. Susie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28298	From: haplo77777	Date: 6/13/2008
Subject: Advice welcome on planter/pond please

I have had fish all my life and this will be my first attempt at something outdoors. I am planning on setting up a large (about 25-30 gallon)pot as a "mini pond" on my back patio (I'm in upstate NY by the way), and I just wanted to see if anyone had any advise/ideas for me that might help make it a little easier (or nicer). I don't know how I'm going to do the filtration or shade it yet, so any help would be appreciated. I'm trying to keep the cost as low as possible, and I have a sponge filer that I may use in conjunction with a power head I have already, but I don't know for sure. I also have 2 20 gallon tanks ready to go for the winter months. Thanks, Mark P.S. I love butterfly koi , and I was thinking about putting in 3. I do know the dangers of over feeding but I was wondering if anyone thought this would be too many for 30 or so gallons with a large amount of surface area.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28299	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/13/2008
Subject: Re: Advice welcome on planter/pond please

A 25-30G mini-pond isn't very much for outdoor use. The water will be subject to drastic temperature swings that a larger volume would be better able to handle. If you had a plant like a palm or other thick crowned plant, you could have one or more of them next to the "pond" to provide shade from the sun but since the actual temperature swings during the day/night are usually around 20F, that's too much for most fish to handle. What kind of fish were you considering? Oops.. I just saw you were considering butterfly koi. They get far too large (30"+)_ for your proposed pond. Long-bodied goldfish (12"+) need a minimum 50-100G each and Koi need a minimum of 500G each for long term success. Even round-bodied goldfish need lots of water volume (30G+ each) since their body mass is the same as their long-bodied counterparts. So you might have to go with other hardy fish like zebra danios, WCMM's, etc., which can handle colder water down into the 60's-70's and can handle tropical temps up into the low 80's so you'll at least have to make sure the temp stays in that range but you might want to add a heater set at the mid 70's to keep the total temperature swing down from day to night. The heater would only kick on when it gets cooler (at night or during cool fronts). I can't think of the name of the fish off-hand but someone mentioned a smaller tropical fish that resembles a goldfish and if that fish is capable of handling the temperatures, you might be able to keep them since you seem to like the look of goldfish/koi. Hopefully, they'll see this and reply with the species again. They also have the genetically engineered Zebra Danio's called Glo-Fish which have day-glo like coloring in their genes. Throw in a lot of fast growing easy to grow plants (one that I like is Anacharis which can be planted or can be left floating on the surface which would provide some more shade/protection to the water/fish). The plants will also help with the overall ecology of the "pond". Definitely use the powerhead to provide lots of surface agitation which will allow for better in-gasing of O2 into the water when it gets warm since warm/hot water does not hold O2 or other gases very well. The other thing you could do is put your air pump inside your home so it's pumping cooler air into the "pond" (instead of the outside warmer air) which will help keep the water from getting too hot during the warmest parts of the day. This may or may not work for the fish so be prepared to either go with something bigger or be prepared to move the fish indoors... especially once the winter comes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of haplo77777 Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 12:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice welcome on planter/pond please I have had fish all my life and this will be my first attempt at something outdoors. I am planning on setting up a large (about 25-30 gallon)pot as a "mini pond" on my back patio (I'm in upstate NY by the way), and I just wanted to see if anyone had any advise/ideas for me that might help make it a little easier (or nicer). I don't know how I'm going to do the filtration or shade it yet, so any help would be appreciated. I'm trying to keep the cost as low as possible, and I have a sponge filer that I may use in conjunction with a power head I have already, but I don't know for sure. I also have 2 20 gallon tanks ready to go for the winter months. Thanks, Mark P.S. I love butterfly koi , and I was thinking about putting in 3. I do know the dangers of over feeding but I was wondering if anyone thought this would be too many for 30 or so gallons with a large amount of surface area. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1501 - Release Date: 6/13/2008 6:33 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28300	From: Paula Brown	Date: 6/13/2008
Subject: Female Betta's - Pushing My Luck?

In my planted 55 gallon tank, I have some tetras (black skirt <which I hate> and serpeas), some danios (zebra), barbs (cherry), nasty snails, and a pleco. I added two female betta's about three months ago and they are doing wonderfully. They are pretty much together 50% of the time - I was surprised by that because I guess I thought they might fight. I was hoping the tank was big enough so that they could stay away from each other so their buddy-buddy attitude has surprised me. Because they are so beautiful, I want some more. But I am wondering if I would be pressing my luck if I do that. Do ya'll think it would be okay to add some more or should I just let my good luck stay as it is and just leave the two of them in there? Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28301	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/13/2008
Subject: Re: Female Betta's - Pushing My Luck?

Female betas are generally much less aggressive than males. You may be able to get away with adding another female, but, then again, you may not. You got your current two together, and they have established their places, and have a common understanding between them. You add another or more than one, you will upset the balance your current two have. How they would react would be just a guessing game. You may be OK, but you may also have a war on your hands. If you do add more, this is how you should go about it. Get the fish you desire to add. Wait until nearly lights out, and then re-arrange the tank décor. When you are done, add the new fish, and they all will be so busy figuring out what is going on, they probably will not bother one another. Shortly after adding the new fish, and if results are favorable. It is time for lights out. This will calm the fish, and in the morning spend some time watching and you may well have a favorable outcome. There may well be some sparring, but, if it goes beyond that, it may well be time to end the experiment and tank the fish in separate living quarters. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 6:08 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Female Betta's - Pushing My Luck? In my planted 55 gallon tank, I have some tetras (black skirt <which I hate> and serpeas), some danios (zebra), barbs (cherry), nasty snails, and a pleco. I added two female betta's about three months ago and they are doing wonderfully. They are pretty much together 50% of the time - I was surprised by that because I guess I thought they might fight. I was hoping the tank was big enough so that they could stay away from each other so their buddy-buddy attitude has surprised me. Because they are so beautiful, I want some more. But I am wondering if I would be pressing my luck if I do that. Do ya'll think it would be okay to add some more or should I just let my good luck stay as it is and just leave the two of them in there? Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28302	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 6/13/2008
Subject: Re: Bookshelf Aquariums

Thank-you for your help. In a message dated 6/12/2008 2:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jett07002@... writes: Hello, Susie With only a 6 gallon tank, I think one betta is all I would put in there. Since you want to put it on a bookshelf, depending on what shelf it's going to be on ---eye level that is, in other words, how much of the tank you're going to see --- gravel, etc. is optional. Keep in mind, though, the more you put in the tank, the heavier it's going to be. Don't know what kind of book shelves you have, but it could be an un-welcomed experience to have it come crashing down. Also, do not forget you're going to have to clean it, so the less stuff in the tank, the easier it will be to clean. joe t --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "RannieSue" <sharden47@.sh> wrote: > > I have been thinking of getting a freshwater bookshelf aquarium(24x9x8) > (6.6gallon) but don't know how many fish to keep in it. I know I would > like to have a male betta.Other than that I really don't know.Would I > need a heater? And do I put gravel and sand in it? Or just gravel? Of > course I would add a couple of plants and maybe one hide-out. Would the > light have to be on a timer? How many algae eaters would I need? As you > can see this is all new to me. And I can use all the advice I can get? > It will be greater appreciated. Than-you very much. Susie > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28303	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/13/2008
Subject: Re: Bookshelf Aquariums

Just a quick note, I have not been able to follow this thread as closely as I would like. Consider something like Mosquito rasboras or some other micro rasboras. I have a small tank about 4 gallons and I have a colony of Heterandria Formosa in it with plants. They do great! A native fish to North America. On the Heterandria Formosa check these links out. http://www.nativefish.org/articles/LittlestLivebearer.php  http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Heterandria_formosa.php http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Bernard_Heterandria_formosa.html A small group of Pure Endler's live bearers would also be fine until they start to produce too many babies. Then find homes for the babies. I had some in a six gallon eclipse and they did fine. The good thing about the book shelf tank you are looking at is that it has a lot of surface area and more area for the small fish you put in it to swim. Tall tanks are not necessarily the best thing for fish considering most of their movement is forward and not up and down. -Mike Gale Thank-you for your help. In a message dated 6/12/2008 2:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jett07002@... writes: Hello, Susie With only a 6 gallon tank, I think one betta is all I would put in there. Since you want to put it on a bookshelf, depending on what shelf it's going to be on ---eye level that is, in other words, how much of the tank you're going to see --- gravel, etc. is optional. Keep in mind, though, the more you put in the tank, the heavier it's going to be. Don't know what kind of book shelves you have, but it could be an un-welcomed experience to have it come crashing down. Also, do not forget you're going to have to clean it, so the less stuff in the tank, the easier it will be to clean. -----Original Message----- From: sharden47@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 4:14 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Bookshelf Aquariums Thank-you for your help. In a message dated 6/12/2008 2:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jett07002@... writes: Hello, Susie With only a 6 gallon tank, I think one betta is all I would put in there. Since you want to put it on a bookshelf, depending on what shelf it's going to be on ---eye level that is, in other words, how much of the tank you're going to see --- gravel, etc. is optional. Keep in mind, though, the more you put in the tank, the heavier it's going to be. Don't know what kind of book shelves you have, but it could be an un-welcomed experience to have it come crashing down. Also, do not forget you're going to have to clean it, so the less stuff in the tank, the easier it will be to clean. joe t --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "RannieSue" <sharden47@.sh> wrote: > > I have been thinking of getting a freshwater bookshelf aquarium(24x9x8) > (6.6gallon) but don't know how many fish to keep in it. I know I would > like to have a male betta.Other than that I really don't know.Would I > need a heater? And do I put gravel and sand in it? Or just gravel? Of > course I would add a couple of plants and maybe one hide-out. Would the > light have to be on a timer? How many algae eaters would I need? As you > can see this is all new to me. And I can use all the advice I can get? > It will be greater appreciated. Than-you very much. Susie > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28304	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2008
Subject: Re: Advice welcome on planter/pond please

Mark, I think you need to try and make this set up raccoon proof. If you have a second story patio with no ground access and no trees or trellis that these demons can climb you may be in the clear. However a crane may take a fancy to the bowl of fish treats you left for it. So you may need to have some kind of netting over it during the day and a way for it to be secure at night from the raccoons. A month ago I put a big plastic planter on my front walkway. I am guessing 50 gallons? I filled it and waited before I put some cichlids into until I could get some more airline for the air driven sponge filter. I am glad I did as the family of raccoons that have taken over my shed think it is the best place to wash their food and make a mess of. Pre raccoon bathing facility I was going to put a cinder block in the bottom so the fish could use it as a hiding place. Please share with us what you end up doing as I would still like to set mine up and could use some ideas myself. -Mike n a message dated 6/13/2008 11:24:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, haplo77777@... writes: I have had fish all my life and this will be my first attempt at something outdoors. I am planning on setting up a large (about 25-30 gallon)pot as a "mini pond" on my back patio (I'm in upstate NY by the way), and I just wanted to see if anyone had any advise/ideas for me that might help make it a little easier (or nicer). I don't know how I'm going to do the filtration or shade it yet, so any help would be appreciated. I'm trying to keep the cost as low as possible, and I have a sponge filer that I may use in conjunction with a power head I have already, but I don't know for sure. I also have 2 20 gallon tanks ready to go for the winter months. Thanks, Mark P.S. I love butterfly koi , and I was thinking about putting in 3. I do know the dangers of over feeding but I was wondering if anyone thought this would be too many for 30 or so gallons with a large amount of surface area. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28305	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/14/2008
Subject: Re: Female Betta's - Pushing My Luck?

As for whether more than two female Bettas can co-exist peacefully, especially when introducing extras half way into the game, I can only give you generalizations -- with with outcome being any one of a number of scenarios. You are looking for a plain, cut & dried, definitive answer on this species' behavior, which is impossible to perceive beforehand as each Betta has their own individual "personality" (behavioral traits) even though IN GENERAL, the species as a whole is at least semi-aggressive including the females; again "in general," as most (but not all) female Bettas can be somewhat aggressive. Your two female Bettas may well have been raised together, so are quite used to each other by now. By adding one or more strange (to them) female Bettas that the original two are unaccustomed to, the ultimate outcomes can be very variable -- with only a guess being made of its success (or failure) before the fact. I'd recommend you try Steve's approach if you intend going ahead with it, as this will be the only way you'll know, following his directions of introducing these new fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <paulabrown4480@...> wrote: > > In my planted 55 gallon tank, I have some tetras (black skirt <which I hate> and serpeas), some danios (zebra), barbs (cherry), nasty snails, and a pleco. I added two female betta's about three months ago and they are doing wonderfully. They are pretty much together 50% of the time - I was surprised by that because I guess I thought they might fight. I was hoping the tank was big enough so that they could stay away from each other so their buddy-buddy attitude has surprised me. > > Because they are so beautiful, I want some more. But I am wondering if I would be pressing my luck if I do that. Do ya'll think it would be okay to add some more or should I just let my good luck stay as it is and just leave the two of them in there? > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28306	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2008
Subject: Re: Bookshelf Aquariums

I like the style of the bookshelf aquarium but intend on putting it on a table. What other small fish would you rec commend? By the way, it's going in my cat's room to keep them company. And yes it comes with a lid. In a message dated 6/12/2008 2:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jett07002@... writes: Hello, Susie With only a 6 gallon tank, I think one betta is all I would put in there. Since you want to put it on a bookshelf, depending on what shelf it's going to be on ---eye level that is, in other words, how much of the tank you're going to see --- gravel, etc. is optional. Keep in mind, though, the more you put in the tank, the heavier it's going to be. Don't know what kind of book shelves you have, but it could be an un-welcomed experience to have it come crashing down. Also, do not forget you're going to have to clean it, so the less stuff in the tank, the easier it will be to clean. joe t --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "RannieSue" <sharden47@.sh> wrote: > > I have been thinking of getting a freshwater bookshelf aquarium(24x9x8) > (6.6gallon) but don't know how many fish to keep in it. I know I would > like to have a male betta.Other than that I really don't know.Would I > need a heater? And do I put gravel and sand in it? Or just gravel? Of > course I would add a couple of plants and maybe one hide-out. Would the > light have to be on a timer? How many algae eaters would I need? As you > can see this is all new to me. And I can use all the advice I can get? > It will be greater appreciated. Than-you very much. Susie > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28307	From: SaraRamirezRocks@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2008
Subject: Re: Bookshelf Aquariums

I'm Glad you are thinking ahead and getting help becuase I was a moron when i put my 29 gallon tank on a target bookshelf!!! i have been so lucky becuase after 4 y ears it is still fine.. however it could have been a receipe for diaster... That was the ONLY thing i didnt research when starting up the tank and it could have been a curticial mistake!! shannon -----Original Message----- From: sharden47@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 4:14 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Bookshelf Aquariums Thank-you for your help. In a message dated 6/12/2008 2:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jett07002@... writes: Hello, Susie With only a 6 gallon tank, I think one betta is all I would put in there. Since you want to put it on a bookshelf, depending on what shelf it's going to be on ---eye level that is, in other words, how much of the tank you're going to see --- gravel, etc. is optional. Keep in mind, though, the more you put in the tank, the heavier it's going to be. Don't know what kind of book shelves you have, but it could be an un-welcomed experience to have it come crashing down. Also, do not forget you're going to have to clean it, so the less stuff in the tank, the easier it will be to clean. joe t --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "RannieSue" <sharden47@.sh> wrote: > > I have been thinking of getting a freshwater bookshelf aquarium(24x9x8) > (6.6gallon) but don't know how many fish to keep in it. I know I would > like to have a male betta.Other than that I really don't know.Would I > need a heater? And do I put gravel and sand in it? Or just gravel? Of > course I would add a couple of plants and maybe one hide-out. Would the > light have to be on a timer? How many algae eaters would I need? As you > can see this is all new to me. And I can use all the advice I can get? > It will be greater appreciated. Than-you very much. Susie > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28308	From: Paula Brown	Date: 6/14/2008
Subject: Female Betta's

Okay, after reading the responses (thanks!) I have decided to not push my luck by getting any more female betta's. These two beauties can continue to be the only betta's in the tank - they seem fine together and I am not willing to push my luck by adding more. Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28309	From: Robb	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Good terrain for an aquarium

Hey all, I was looking through the gallery at you guys' awesome tanks and it makes me want to make my tank look that nice...I have little to nothing in it and was looking for ideas. Sadly I'm not too creative so I tend to go for premade things. Suggestions would be great.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28310	From: James (Jim) Darlack	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Good terrain for an aquarium

I love to go to streams and find rocks for the tanks.  Or if you have a Home Depot or Loews check out their garden stones.  I look for the natural stones that are broken and ask permission to take them home.   A few round ones, layers of flat slate like rocks, and you sculpt out natural looking rock formations with caves that fish like to explore, mate, spawn, or just get alone for a while.    Also concider inserting java moss or java ferns on the rocks, and they will cling to it, and look great.   I would however, not put stream wood in the tank; polutants, poisons, and predators can be released to your tank.  Same with plants from a stream.  Purchase bog wood and plants from LFS or other hobbyists.   Also, use clear silicone RTV to cement rocks together, They tend to slip around when you are aquascaping.  I like to build it outside, RTV it together, and on top of a large piece of slate.  Then put the structure in the tank.    Its fun to aquascape. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28311	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: Good terrain for an aquarium

What kind of fish do you have and how big is the tank? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robb Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 12:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] Good terrain for an aquarium Hey all, I was looking through the gallery at you guys' awesome tanks and it makes me want to make my tank look that nice...I have little to nothing in it and was looking for ideas. Sadly I'm not too creative so I tend to go for premade things. Suggestions would be great. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28312	From: Robb	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: Good terrain for an aquarium

African Cichlids and 29 Gallons. (For now at least) By the way you guys are a great help, even when I'm not involved in the talk I learn something new. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What kind of fish do you have and how big is the tank? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Robb > Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 12:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] Good terrain for an aquarium > > > > Hey all, I was looking through the gallery at you guys' awesome tanks > and it makes me want to make my tank look that nice...I have little to > nothing in it and was looking for ideas. Sadly I'm not too creative so > I tend to go for premade things. Suggestions would be great. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28313	From: Robb	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Good terrain for an aquarium

How did you control your java moss, My LFS said it can get out of control easily? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "James \(Jim\) Darlack" <jmdarlack@...> wrote: > > I love to go to streams and find rocks for the tanks.  Or if you have a Home Depot or Loews check out their garden stones.  I look for the natural stones that are broken and ask permission to take them home. >   > A few round ones, layers of flat slate like rocks, and you sculpt out natural looking rock formations with caves that fish like to explore, mate, spawn, or just get alone for a while.  >   > Also concider inserting java moss or java ferns on the rocks, and they will cling to it, and look great. >   > I would however, not put stream wood in the tank; polutants, poisons, and predators can be released to your tank.  Same with plants from a stream.  Purchase bog wood and plants from LFS or other hobbyists. >   > Also, use clear silicone RTV to cement rocks together, They tend to slip around when you are aquascaping.  I like to build it outside, RTV it together, and on top of a large piece of slate.  Then put the structure in the tank.  >   > Its fun to aquascape. > Jim > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28314	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: Good terrain for an aquarium

Oh, I will gladly take it off yor hands :) I have plenty of tanks to put it into. Just bought some rainbow fish and I bet they would love it. -Mike How did you control your java moss, My LFS said it can get out of control easily? -----Original Message----- From: Robb <sanuriel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 2:45 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Good terrain for an aquarium How did you control your java moss, My LFS said it can get out of control easily? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "James \(Jim\) Darlack" <jmdarlack@...> wrote: > > I love to go to streams and find rocks for the tanks.  Or if you have a Home Depot or Loews check out their garden stones.  I look for the natural stones that are broken and ask permission to take them home. >   > A few round ones, layers of flat slate like rocks, and you sculpt out natural looking rock formations with caves that fish like to explore, mate, spawn, or just get alone for a while.  >   > Also concider inserting java moss or java ferns on the rocks, and they will cling to it, and look great. >   > I would however, not put stream wood in the tank; polutants, poisons, and predators can be released to your tank.  Same with plants from a stream.  Purchase bog wood and plants from LFS or other hobbyists. >   > Also, use clear silicone RTV to cement rocks together, They tend to slip around when you are aquascaping.  I like to build it outside, RTV it together, and on top of a large piece of slate.  Then put the structure in the tank.  >   > Its fun to aquascape. > Jim > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28315	From: Roos	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: hi new here

HI! this summer i'd like to set up two tanks, a cumminty tank and a ciclid tank.. i won't need help with the communtiy tank, but i'll need help with my other tank. ALSO want JUST real plants in both tanks.. I can find crawfish in the ponds around, but what species and filters and new info is what i need the help with.. ALSO if anyone else is in Maine USA that could help me with finding fish. that would be great also!! thanks tons Lisa and Spike psd

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28316	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: Good terrain for an aquarium

Which type of Africans? Mbuna would like a tank filled with rocks and shellies would like a tank filled with shells/sand. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robb Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] Re: Good terrain for an aquarium African Cichlids and 29 Gallons. (For now at least) By the way you guys are a great help, even when I'm not involved in the talk I learn something new.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28317	From: caroline	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: bio rolling filter

when the rolling filter has stopped.. do you change it to a new filter..and what about the tank..will it have to recycle? thanks caroline

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28318	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: bio rolling filter

Which brand/model do you have? There's usually something minor that causes a bio-wheel to quit spinning completely. One thing I've seen with my Penguin Bio-Wheel 200 model is there is a little half-moon cut-out next to the intake tube and if the filter cartridge gets clogged, water will overflow out of that half-moon, rather than go over the clogged filter. When this happens, not enough water flows past the bio-wheel to keep it spinning properly. Go to my blog and see my "Filter Profile - Penguin Bio-Wheel 200" where I show how I roll up a small piece of filter poly pad (like a short cigar) and shove it into that half-moon cut out. This causes the water to go through or over the filter cartridge which at least keeps the bio-wheel spinning. Proper filter cartridge maintenance (either changing them or cleaning them... I just clean mine) will keep the water flowing through the cartridge and thus past the bio-wheel so you shouldn't experience a problem. Another thing I've seen is where algae or scum will build up in the little holders on each side of the bio-wheel pins and that adds friction and can slow things down. I use tooth picks to clean out those little holders on each side whenever I do filter maintenance. Last but not least, if it does stop spinning, you need to manually spin it several times to get the entire bio-wheel filter soaked with water again as it will be too heavy on one side when it stops and it doesn't want to start spinning again since it's bottom heavy. Oh yeah.. to answer your question, as long as you don't change both the cartridge and the bio-wheel at the same time, you would probably only experience a mini-cycle. How long has the tank been set up? The nitrifying bacteria grow in the filter cartridge, in the bio-wheel filter and on all other surface areas of the tank/gravel/decorations, etc. The majority do live in the filter media. I would estimate that 40% live on the bio-wheel, 30-40% in the filter cartridge and 20-30% on all of the other surface areas of the tank. So if you change out either the filter cartridge or bio-wheel, you would be trashing 30-40% of your N-bacteria so you would likely have a mini-cycle (small ammonia/nitrite spike) within the next few days so test daily and be prepared to do a PWC as needed to keep the ammonia/nitrite below 0.5ppm... depending on what your pH and temperature is.... read this page for more info on Ammonia Toxicity. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html A pinch of salt per 10G will protect against nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] bio rolling filter when the rolling filter has stopped.. do you change it to a new filter..and what about the tank..will it have to recycle? thanks caroline No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1503 - Release Date: 6/14/2008 6:02 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28320	From: Robb	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Good terrain for an aquarium

And after I read Mike's thread after a second time. I didn't get any moss. I was merely looking at it today until the LFS girl said it got out of control..I'm not to that stage yet. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Oh, I will gladly take it off yor hands :) > > I have plenty of tanks to put it into. Just bought some rainbow fish and I bet they would love it. > > -Mike > > > > How did you control your java moss, My LFS said it can get out of > control easily? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robb <sanuriel@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 2:45 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Good terrain for an aquarium > > > > > > > How did you control your java moss, My LFS said it can get out of > control easily? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "James \(Jim\) Darlack" > <jmdarlack@> wrote: > > > > I love to go to streams and find rocks for the tanks.  Or if > you have a Home Depot or Loews check out their garden stones.  I > look for the natural stones that are broken and ask permission to take > them home. > >   > > A few round ones, layers of flat slate like rocks, and you sculpt > out natural looking rock formations with caves that fish like to > explore, mate, spawn, or just get alone for a while.  > >   > > Also concider inserting java moss or java ferns on the rocks, and > they will cling to it, and look great. > >   > > I would however, not put stream wood in the tank; polutants, > poisons, and predators can be released to your tank.  Same with > plants from a stream.  Purchase bog wood and plants from LFS or > other hobbyists. > >   > > Also, use clear silicone RTV to cement rocks together, They tend to > slip around when you are aquascaping.  I like to build it > outside, RTV it together, and on top of a large piece of slate.  > Then put the structure in the tank.  > >   > > Its fun to aquascape. > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28321	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

A planted cichlid tank very much depends on what cichlids you wish to keep. You'll need to give us an idea of what you would like to keep to help you there. If you are planning on keeping native fish in your community tank, check with the laws and regulations in the state of Maine. Many states do not allow keeping of at least some native fish, mostly game fish, in aquaria without special permits if at all. You may be limited in how you can collect fish and where you can collect fish. At the very least, you probably will need a fishing license. It can be very difficult to keep crawfish with other fish, without the crawfish doing harm to the other fish. You probably want to rethink that idea before you start. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roos Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hi new here HI! this summer i'd like to set up two tanks, a cumminty tank and a ciclid tank.. i won't need help with the communtiy tank, but i'll need help with my other tank. ALSO want JUST real plants in both tanks.. I can find crawfish in the ponds around, but what species and filters and new info is what i need the help with.. ALSO if anyone else is in Maine USA that could help me with finding fish. that would be great also!! thanks tons Lisa and Spike psd

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28322	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

i have no idea which ciclids i want yet. well i was thinking of noraml everyday aquarium fish, not native maine fish. well i collected a crawdad for one of my moms tanks and he was very helpful, and when he got too big i let him (it) go, and got another. they are easy to find here. i have always had good luck keeping them, and as long as they are well fed, they do fine... i liked the post that i just read about gluing rocks together to make out-croppings for the fish, i'll have to do that.. thanks for helping Lisa ><> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:32 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > A planted cichlid tank very much depends on what cichlids you wish to > keep. You'll need to give us an idea of what you would like to keep to > help you there. > > If you are planning on keeping native fish in your community tank, check > with the laws and regulations in the state of Maine. Many states do not > allow keeping of at least some native fish, mostly game fish, in aquaria > without special permits if at all. You may be limited in how you can > collect fish and where you can collect fish. At the very least, you > probably will need a fishing license. > > It can be very difficult to keep crawfish with other fish, without the > crawfish doing harm to the other fish. You probably want to rethink that > idea before you start. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Roos > Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] hi new here > > HI! > > this summer i'd like to set up two tanks, a cumminty tank and a ciclid > tank.. i won't need help with the communtiy tank, but i'll need help > with my other tank. ALSO want JUST real plants in both tanks.. I can > find crawfish in the ponds around, but what species and filters and new > info is what i need the help with.. ALSO if anyone else is in Maine USA > that could help me with finding fish. that would be great also!! > > thanks tons > > Lisa and Spike psd > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28323	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

Hi Lisa, I have to agree with Steve on the Crawfish,(crayfish, crawdad, or yabbie). A friend at work recently got a large aquarium and was gifted two crayfish. When they put a dozen small fish in the tank with them one of the crays got a hold of a danio and had eaten the head in about 10 minutes time. I think crays are great and had a couple Australian blue yabbies. Beautiful, but the large one ate the smaller one. Then the larger one managed to crawl out a couple months later and got a little on the dry side. He lived about a week after I returned him to the water. We used to catch crays from our local creeks, streets, and drainage ditches here in Northern California. Tasty :) When you go shopping for Cichlids make sure you find out how large they are going to be when they grow to adult size, that is if they are young when you purchase them. I think Lenny has a website with stocking suggestions by tank size. Perhaps he has already jumped in to share that. -Mike In a message dated 6/15/2008 9:54:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, KWELYROOS71@... writes: i have no idea which ciclids i want yet. well i was thinking of noraml everyday aquarium fish, not native maine fish. well i collected a crawdad for one of my moms tanks and he was very helpful, and when he got too big i let him (it) go, and got another. they are easy to find here. i have always had good luck keeping them, and as long as they are well fed, they do fine... i liked the post that i just read about gluing rocks together to make out-croppings for the fish, i'll have to do that.. thanks for helping **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28324	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/15/2008
Subject: Java Moss Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Good terrain for an aquarium

Sure it can get out of control, if you let it. When it is not to your liking or crowds the fish or other plants just remove a chunk of it. I do have some, when it gets large enough I remove a bunch and place it in another tank. There is more than one kind available as well. They have different names for some of them, Christmas tree moss, weeping moss, flame moss, star moss, Singapore moss, and maybe more. _http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?liveplantsm_ (http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?liveplantsm) The regular Java moss is just fine. The other ones usually cost more. I paid $5.00 USD for not much more than a sprig of the Christmas tree moss. I cannot even find it in any of my tanks. Probably got mixed in with Java moss when I was mixing tank contents when I moved. -Mike In a message dated 6/15/2008 9:17:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sanuriel@... writes: And after I read Mike's thread after a second time. I didn't get any moss. I was merely looking at it today until the LFS girl said it got out of control..I'm not to that stage yet. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28325	From: babsdvs	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Oh, holy molly

Yesterday, while doing a pwc I noticed that I have a swarm, bevy, flock of fry, and I expect they are from my new mollies. I know now that the mollies were not a good choice, but they were so beautiful. Anyway, since I don't have any preditors (other than the ZDs) I assume I am now WAY overstocked in my 30g. Since I am moving in 15 days, I did not plan to add any tanks to my current location and hope that much more frequent pwcs will keep them alive until I move. Yikes, but they are the cutest things. Maybe I should set up a tank at the new house before I move? Barbara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28326	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Question about moving

I have a question about moving. I am active duty Army. With that being said, I move about every 2 to 3 years and was wondering first of all if moving long distances will have an effect on my Betta and if not, what is the best way to move a Betta? I'd hate to leave Golic behind as he's developed quite a personallity. He sees me sit down at the desk and starts moving around and he definately knows when it's time to eat!! :) Thanks for your advice. You can check out some of the photos on Flickr or Photobucket....can't remember which area I posted them. -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28327	From: Duriel Krugaire	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Indianapolis, IN

Hi, I have a couple of tanks for someone interested in enjoying fish. I had the tanks setup with undergravel filters & chilods for years, but I am moving to AZ. If anyone local is interested in a 55gal round front & 45 gallon 3' wide, with stands & all the fixings, please email me.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28328	From: jackcollora	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: red sea

i was going to attempt to make a red sea enviroment in my new salt tank. i was wondering if any one here tryed something similar or if any salt water people could give me some advise (im new to salt)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28329	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: red sea

I don't do salt but here is Mongabay's list of Red Sea species compiled from profiles from Fishbase.org. http://fish.mongabay.com/data/ecosystems/Saltwater_Red_Sea.htm 1,167 profiles all together so you have plenty of reading to do. lol This page has some info on a Red Sea Biotope about 1/2 way down. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/10kfriendsart_.htm This one has some more info. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/rsfaqs.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jackcollora Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] red sea i was going to attempt to make a red sea enviroment in my new salt tank. i was wondering if any one here tryed something similar or if any salt water people could give me some advise (im new to salt) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1505 - Release Date: 6/16/2008 7:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28330	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, holy molly

Barbara, Congratulations. However, it seems you may need to go to school to learn the proper name of a bunch of fish <g>. Unless your tank is well planted, you'll have a greatly reduced population of fry in short order. The mollies themselves may join in the free food bash that is being thrown in your 30 gallon tank. Only by hiding will the fry escape the predation. If this scenario does not ply out in the next few days, you will need to be prepared to move the fry elsewhere. First thing to do would be to start a bubble-up foam filter in the main tank that will be used as the mechanical/biological filter in your new container. Next would be to look around to see what may serve as a "tank" for the fry, a large bowl, a bucket, or anything that will hold around 3-5 gallons of water. This should suffice for the short term, until you complete your move and can think about this some more. You may also need a small heater to help maintain a relatively stable temperature in the temporary quarters. Just remember, you do not need to do anything fancy or "right" here, to supply a new home for the fry, just try to give them what they need--water of good quality and food. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, holy molly Yesterday, while doing a pwc I noticed that I have a swarm, bevy, flock of fry, and I expect they are from my new mollies. I know now that the mollies were not a good choice, but they were so beautiful. Anyway, since I don't have any preditors (other than the ZDs) I assume I am now WAY overstocked in my 30g. Since I am moving in 15 days, I did not plan to add any tanks to my current location and hope that much more frequent pwcs will keep them alive until I move. Yikes, but they are the cutest things. Maybe I should set up a tank at the new house before I move? Barbara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28331	From: quamichan2001	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: Indianapolis, IN

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Duriel Krugaire" <dlkruger2000@...> wrote: > > Hi, I have a couple of tanks for someone interested in enjoying fish. > I had the tanks setup with undergravel filters & chilods for years, but > I am moving to AZ. If anyone local is interested in a 55gal round > front & 45 gallon 3' wide, with stands & all the fixings, please email > me. Live in Brownsburg...what's the deal for the tanks...I have some West Africans, Bedotia rainbows, Choprae danio, etc....Mike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28332	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

kool thanks! i'll make sure i do my reseach.. On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 1:32 AM, <Deenerz@...> wrote: > > Hi Lisa, > > I have to agree with Steve on the Crawfish,(crayfish, crawdad, or yabbie). > A > friend at work recently got a large aquarium and was gifted two crayfish. > When they put a dozen small fish in the tank with them one of the crays got > a > hold of a danio and had eaten the head in about 10 minutes time. > > I think crays are great and had a couple Australian blue yabbies. > Beautiful, > but the large one ate the smaller one. Then the larger one managed to crawl > > out a couple months later and got a little on the dry side. He lived about > a > week after I returned him to the water. We used to catch crays from our > local > creeks, streets, and drainage ditches here in Northern California. Tasty :) > > When you go shopping for Cichlids make sure you find out how large they are > > going to be when they grow to adult size, that is if they are young when > you > purchase them. > > I think Lenny has a website with stocking suggestions by tank size. Perhaps > > he has already jumped in to share that. > > -Mike > > > In a message dated 6/15/2008 9:54:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > KWELYROOS71@... <KWELYROOS71%40GMAIL.COM> writes: > > i have no idea which ciclids i want yet. > > well i was thinking of noraml everyday aquarium fish, not native maine > fish. > > well i collected a crawdad for one of my moms tanks and he was very > helpful, > and when he got too big i let him (it) go, and got another. they are easy > to find here. i have always had good luck keeping them, and as long as they > are well fed, they do fine... i liked the post that i just read about > gluing > rocks together to make out-croppings for the fish, i'll have to do that.. > > thanks for helping > > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best > 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102<http://citysbest.aol.com/?ncid=aolacg00050000000102> > ) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28333	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

Well first you need to decide what type of cichlids. Some need the rocks and some need the open sand. Many African cichlids will eat the crawfish as soon as it molts, agree with Steve to keep it in a separate tank. What size tank? I’d choose carnivores who will be unlikely to eat your plants!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28334	From: Pam Andress	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: Indianapolis, IN

What do you want for these tanks. Pam --- On Mon, 6/16/08, Duriel Krugaire <dlkruger2000@...> wrote: From: Duriel Krugaire <dlkruger2000@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Indianapolis, IN To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi, I have a couple of tanks for someone interested in enjoying fish. I had the tanks setup with undergravel filters & chilods for years, but I am moving to AZ. If anyone local is interested in a 55gal round front & 45 gallon 3' wide, with stands & all the fixings, please email me.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28335	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

i thought all Cichlids were African... i won't put the crayfish in the cichlid tank..that would be stupid..lol i don't even have a tank yet, this summer sometime. I am hoping, i am looking for info right now, i was think a 30g. of soo On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:52 AM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > Well first you need to decide what type of cichlids. Some need the rocks > and some need the open sand. Many African cichlids will eat the crawfish as > soon as it molts, agree with Steve to keep it in a separate tank. What size > tank? I'd choose carnivores who will be unlikely to eat your plants! > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28336	From: cinadmil	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: hi new here

hi there i am starting up my tanks today after a house fire destroyed them 2 yrs ago i have let the filters run through for the last 2 weeks and am about to add some swordtails today and will add angel fish at a later date am soooo excited have missed my tanks more than my house cin

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28337	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

Check this page, if you scroll down past Africa you can see the Central American, and South American species. _http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/distribution.php_ (http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/distribution.php) The United States has one Native cichlid, the Texas Cichlid, Herichthys cyanoguttatus. _http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?s=207_ (http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?s=207) -Mike In a message dated 6/16/2008 5:54:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, KWELYROOS71@... writes: i thought all Cichlids were African... i won't put the crayfish in the cichlid tank..that would be stupid..lol i don't even have a tank yet, this summer sometime. I am hoping, i am looking for info right now, i was think a 30g. of soo **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28338	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: Question about moving

Moving the fish is pretty simple. Stop feeding two days before the move. This will allow him to pretty much flush his system of digestive wastes, and he should have enough meat on him to carry him through for 2 weeks. Just get a fish bag from the LFS, fill it with enough water to barely cover the fish when the bag is on its side, place the fish in the bag. Short trip seal the bag with a knot or elastic, if a long trip, you'll need to find some oxygen to fill the air space in the bag, perhaps from your friendly LFS, or, as inventive as you guys can be, from somewhere on the base <g>. You can then carry the fish in your luggage. (I think that now there may be some prohibitions about this if you fly commercial.) You do not describe the living quarters for your betta, so I cannot offer you any advice right now. Too many possibilities. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; Betta_Crazy@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about moving I have a question about moving. I am active duty Army. With that being said, I move about every 2 to 3 years and was wondering first of all if moving long distances will have an effect on my Betta and if not, what is the best way to move a Betta? I'd hate to leave Golic behind as he's developed quite a personallity. He sees me sit down at the desk and starts moving around and he definately knows when it's time to eat!! :) Thanks for your advice. You can check out some of the photos on Flickr or Photobucket....can't remember which area I posted them. -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28339	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

koolest.. didn't know that.. thanks for the links! On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:18 PM, <Deenerz@...> wrote: > > Check this page, if you scroll down past Africa you can see the Central > American, and South American species. > > _http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/distribution.php_ > (http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/distribution.php) > > The United States has one Native cichlid, the Texas Cichlid, Herichthys > cyanoguttatus. > _http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?s=207_ > (http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?s=207) > > -Mike > > > In a message dated 6/16/2008 5:54:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > KWELYROOS71@... <KWELYROOS71%40GMAIL.COM> writes: > > i thought all Cichlids were African... > i won't put the crayfish in the cichlid tank..that would be stupid..lol > i don't even have a tank yet, this summer sometime. I am hoping, i am > looking for info right now, i was think a 30g. of soo > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for > fuel-efficient used cars. ( > http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28340	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

30G isn't much room for cichlids but there are a few things you can do with a smaller tank like that. A 30G long or 30G breeder would be even better... much better than a 29G which is a common tank found at pet stores.. although Angelfish (yes, they are cichlids too) might prefer the taller 29G tank. In most cases, it would be best to get a long/wide tank over a tall tank since most cichlids are territorial so the larger footprint, the more fish you can have. In a tall tank with a smaller footprint, like a 29G, you are limited. Here's a page with some cookie-cutter set-ups for cichlid tanks based on size. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php (1/2 way down are the cookie cutter setups based on tank size. You'll see where a 20G long tank gives you a lot more options than a 29G tall tank). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: hi new here i thought all Cichlids were African... i won't put the crayfish in the cichlid tank..that would be stupid..lol i don't even have a tank yet, this summer sometime. I am hoping, i am looking for info right now, i was think a 30g. of soo On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:52 AM, Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > wrote: > Well first you need to decide what type of cichlids. Some need the > rocks and some need the open sand. Many African cichlids will eat the > crawfish as soon as it molts, agree with Steve to keep it in a > separate tank. What size tank? I'd choose carnivores who will be unlikely to eat your plants! > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com> on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts <http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1505 - Release Date: 6/16/2008 7:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28341	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

Remember that just running the tanks does nothing to cycle them or prepare them for fish. I wish you would have come out here two weeks ago. We could have gotten you set up on a fishless cycling plan and you'd be close to being fully cycled by now. Make sure you test your water for ammonia/nitrites every day or so and do 25% PWC's to keep their levels below 1.0ppm during the cycling with fish process you will be going through. On my blog, under the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, there's an article with more details about "Cycling With Fish". Check it out. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cinadmil Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 7:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hi new here hi there i am starting up my tanks today after a house fire destroyed them 2 yrs ago i have let the filters run through for the last 2 weeks and am about to add some swordtails today and will add angel fish at a later date am soooo excited have missed my tanks more than my house cin No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1505 - Release Date: 6/16/2008 7:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28342	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2008
Subject: Re: Question about moving

Since this was a Betta being moved, it's not as good to use Oxygen in the bag since it will adversely affect the Betta when it breathes through the labyrinth. For a single Betta being moved, I'd probably go with a large mouth 1G or larger jar (like a commercial sized pickle jar, from a deli, about 1/2 to 2/3 way filled up) and put that inside a small foam ice chest. Whenever not moving, you could take the lid off to refresh the air. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 8:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about moving Moving the fish is pretty simple. Stop feeding two days before the move. This will allow him to pretty much flush his system of digestive wastes, and he should have enough meat on him to carry him through for 2 weeks. Just get a fish bag from the LFS, fill it with enough water to barely cover the fish when the bag is on its side, place the fish in the bag. Short trip seal the bag with a knot or elastic, if a long trip, you'll need to find some oxygen to fill the air space in the bag, perhaps from your friendly LFS, or, as inventive as you guys can be, from somewhere on the base <g>. You can then carry the fish in your luggage. (I think that now there may be some prohibitions about this if you fly commercial.) You do not describe the living quarters for your betta, so I cannot offer you any advice right now. Too many possibilities. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ; Betta_Crazy@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Betta_Crazy%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about moving I have a question about moving. I am active duty Army. With that being said, I move about every 2 to 3 years and was wondering first of all if moving long distances will have an effect on my Betta and if not, what is the best way to move a Betta? I'd hate to leave Golic behind as he's developed quite a personallity. He sees me sit down at the desk and starts moving around and he definately knows when it's time to eat!! :) Thanks for your advice. You can check out some of the photos on Flickr or Photobucket....can't remember which area I posted them. -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ <http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/> http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ <http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/> http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ <http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/> There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1505 - Release Date: 6/16/2008 7:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28343	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/17/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here.. another myspace pg

I have made another myspace pg. www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqueak and I just realized i have alot to learn again about setting up a tank (s) there are lots of new stuff; like the cycling thing, i always used to cycle my tanks for two weeks with NO fish or nothing. never made any sense to me, but that is what i was told to do. i love the group learning tons already!! can't wait to set my tanks up! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28344	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/17/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

i don't have alot of room, maybe i should just set up a community and wait on the cichlids when i have the space and time for a 100G tank On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 1:07 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > 30G isn't much room for cichlids but there are a few things you can do with > a smaller tank like that. A 30G long or 30G breeder would be even > better... > much better than a 29G which is a common tank found at pet stores.. > although > Angelfish (yes, they are cichlids too) might prefer the taller 29G tank. > > In most cases, it would be best to get a long/wide tank over a tall tank > since most cichlids are territorial so the larger footprint, the more fish > you can have. In a tall tank with a smaller footprint, like a 29G, you are > limited. > > Here's a page with some cookie-cutter set-ups for cichlid tanks based on > size. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php (1/2 > way down are the cookie cutter setups based on tank size. You'll see where > a 20G long tank gives you a lot more options than a 29G tall tank). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of L. Gove > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 7:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: hi new here > > i thought all Cichlids were African... > i won't put the crayfish in the cichlid tank..that would be stupid..lol i > don't even have a tank yet, this summer sometime. I am hoping, i am looking > for info right now, i was think a 30g. of soo > > On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:52 AM, Donna Ransome <djransome@... > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net <djransome%2540optonline.net>> > > wrote: > > > Well first you need to decide what type of cichlids. Some need the > > rocks and some need the open sand. Many African cichlids will eat the > > crawfish as soon as it molts, agree with Steve to keep it in a > > separate tank. What size tank? I'd choose carnivores who will be unlikely > to eat your plants! > > > > > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > on yahoo kwelyroos71 > on MSN kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com<kwelyroos71%2540live.com>> > on aol > kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 > dark.moon.crafts@... <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com<dark.moon.crafts%2540gmail.com> > > > kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com<kwelyroos71%2540yahoo.com>> > kwelyroos71@... > <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com <kwelyroos71%2540gmail.com>> > http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts > <http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts> > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1505 - Release Date: 6/16/2008 > 7:20 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28345	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/17/2008
Subject: Purigen

Hi Lenny, Decided to try Purigen in 2 of my tanks and will be switching over this weekend from BioChemsorb in the Rena filter. Are there any things that need to be done before I introduce the bag with the new media? Is it worthwhile to keep the old Chemsorb in the canister , maybe to use the bacteria that is already in place? Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28346	From: Mike Downey	Date: 6/17/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

----- Original Message ----- From: L. Gove i don't have alot of room, maybe i should just set up a community and wait on the cichlids when i have the space and time for a 100G tank Maybe you should try some of the dwarf cichlids? Maybe some of the West African riverine species? Pelvicachromis? Nanochromis? Many of the Pelvicachromis can be maintained and bred in relatively small tanks as species tanks or medium sized tanks as a community/biotope set up. I have Pelv. subocellatus breeding a a community tank with Bedotia species, Choprae danios, corydoras, etc. They are cave spawners and have raised several broods without many problems. Some of the P. taeniatus varieties are good parents and reasonable neighbors to upper water fish like danios and rasboras. And the color displays during courtship are outstanding!! Mike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28347	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/17/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen

With all of the other filter media in a Rena canister filter, I don't think the BioChemsorb will affect your nitrogen cycle very much... if at all. I'm presuming you have the two sponge blocks (large pore and small pore), then some filter floss or poly pads and then the BioChemsorb. I think the BioChemsorb package is much larger than the Purigen so you may want to add some more polypad filter media to add more mechanical/biological filtration to your system. On my blog, I have a filter profile on one of my Rena Filstar canister filters. I put the Purigen as the last layer of filtration (on top) so that the 100ml package of Purigen mostly covers the round slotted opening where the water flows back to the tank. Since you'll be "cleaning" the Purigen every few weeks, you don't really want to rely on it for biological filtration since any N-bacteria will die when immersed in the 50/50 bleach/water solution which is how Purigen is cleaned/recharged. I soak it for 24 hours in the 50/50 bleach/water solution and then rinse it well for a minute or two under running water. Then soak it for 24 hours in a cup of water and 2 capfuls of dechlor. Then rinse again and I put it back into my filter. I have two filter systems and I alternate doing filter maintenance/cleaning each week so each system gets a routine cleaning every two weeks. If the Purigen has gotten dark enough, I do the soak. If it's not that dark, then I let it run until next time. I do have at least one package of clean/recharged Purigen running in one of my filters at all times. I never let them both get too dirty at the same time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Purigen Hi Lenny, Decided to try Purigen in 2 of my tanks and will be switching over this weekend from BioChemsorb in the Rena filter. Are there any things that need to be done before I introduce the bag with the new media? Is it worthwhile to keep the old Chemsorb in the canister , maybe to use the bacteria that is already in place? Thanks, Steve No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1505 - Release Date: 6/16/2008 7:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28348	From: lbon3002	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: trout

hello im just getting started in rasing trout. anybody out there can answer or guide me in some direction thank you Leslie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28349	From: Russ Foley	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/Hey Lenny

Just to let you know both me and my girlfriend are in the UK. Love fish and as she is disabled and I am her carer we are both near the computer a lot so if you need a UK mod or two we are here. Thanks folks Russ n Sarah --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Knock it off. Next thing you know we'll be getting up in the middle of the night. You can have that shift. > > Harry > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Maybe the owner can check to see if there are moderators from different time > zones around the world since it looks like Noura's messages hit the group > around 2-3am CST (Central USA time) but I don't see them until they are > released in the morning here. I guess for a really big group like this one, > it would be good to have a moderator in time zones every few hours around > the world so there is more of a chance that a moderator will be online when > messages hit. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Wendie > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic > > It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's life > in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or you > will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if you > depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so > I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email > notification arrives. > Wendie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic > > > The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and > off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily > off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, can > always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by sending > your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic > > > I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. > Am I still considered a newly?! > > Noura > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 > 11:22 AM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28350	From: aec crawford	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

enny have been testing ph levels and have known about the 25%pwc for years now its hard to tell other people with aquariums though' i know people that do complete water changes and can't understand why their fish die i have added the fish and all seems well will be adding eel tail cat fish at the end of the month when new stock comes into the pet store ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 17 June, 2008 3:10:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] hi new here Remember that just running the tanks does nothing to cycle them or prepare them for fish.  I wish you would have come out here two weeks ago.  We could have gotten you set up on a fishless cycling plan and you'd be close to being fully cycled by now.  Make sure you test your water for ammonia/nitrites every day or so and do 25% PWC's to keep their levels below 1.0ppm during the cycling with fish process you will be going through.  On my blog, under the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, there's an article with more details about "Cycling With Fish".  Check it out. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cinadmil Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 7:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hi new here hi there i am starting up my tanks today after a house fire destroyed them 2 yrs ago i have let the filters run through for the last 2 weeks and am about to add some swordtails today and will add angel fish at a later date am soooo excited have missed my tanks more than my house cin No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1505 - Release Date: 6/16/2008 7:20 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. www.yahoo7.com.au/mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28351	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/Hey Lenny

Russ n Sarah, Thank you for the kind offer. I think the troubles we were experiencing at the time that was suggested are behind us now. Plus a few of us are night owls and posts are moderated. -Mike Just to let you know both me and my girlfriend are in the UK. Love fish and as she is disabled and I am her carer we are both near the computer a lot so if you need a UK mod or two we are here. Thanks folks Russ n Sarah -----Original Message----- From: Russ Foley <groups@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 1:03 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Messages Delay- Off topic/Hey Lenny Just to let you know both me and my girlfriend are in the UK. Love fish and as she is disabled and I am her carer we are both near the computer a lot so if you need a UK mod or two we are here. Thanks folks Russ n Sarah --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Knock it off. Next thing you know we'll be getting up in the middle of the night. You can have that shift. > > Harry > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Maybe the owner can check to see if there are moderators from different time > zones around the world since it looks like Noura's messages hit the group > around 2-3am CST (Central USA time) but I don't see them until they are > released in the morning here. I guess for a really big group like this one, > it would be good to have a moderator in time zones every few hours around > the world so there is more of a chance that a moderator will be online when > messages hit. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Wendie > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic > > It's unforunate that any group needs to be moderated but I guess that's life > in this world. You do need to have several moderators for the group or you > will continue to run into the problem of delayed postings especially if you > depend on notification from Yahoo. I run nothing but moderated groups so > I'm constantly checking for postings and usually clear them before email > notification arrives. > Wendie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:10 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic > > > The owner of the group put everyone on moderation to stop the spam and > off-topic messages but I guess this off-topic message isn't necessarily > off-topic since it's a question about the group. You, or other members, can > always send a message directly to the groups owner and moderators by sending > your email to AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Messages Delay- Off topic > > > I'm wondering why are my messages taking too long to appear on the board. > Am I still considered a newly?! > > Noura > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 5/3/2008 > 11:22 AM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28352	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: trout

Hi Leslie, I have zero experience with trout but you can take a look at the North American Native Fishes Association http://www.nanfa.org/ -Mike hello im just getting started in rasing trout. anybody out there can answer or guide me in some direction thank you Leslie -----Original Message----- From: lbon3002 <lbon3002@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 5:55 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] trout hello im just getting started in rasing trout. anybody out there can answer or guide me in some direction thank you Leslie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28353	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: trout

Hi Leslie, I can remember that Trout are what they call cold water fish that may not do well in the confines of a small pond. It seems to me that I caught some out of a stream in South Dakota and that water was pretty frigid. The good place to find out about wild type fish like these would be the Game and Wildlife service. Before I would start, I would make sure they are not protected in any way and that there are no Bears around on which to feed on them. That may be a pet that you don't want visiting. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Leslie, > > I have zero experience with trout but you can take a look at the North

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28354	From: aec crawford	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: hi new here

enny have been testing ph levels and have known about the 25% pwc for years now, its hard to tell other people with aquariums though' i know people that do complete water changes and can't understand why their fish die i have added the fish and all seems well will be adding eel tail cat fish at the end of the month when new stock comes into the pet store cin ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 17 June, 2008 3:10:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] hi new here Remember that just running the tanks does nothing to cycle them or prepare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28355	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: trout

First, I hope you have the proper permitting done to keep trout in captivity. Every state of which I am aware requires some sort of permit to keep game fish. You need lots of good, clean, water to raise the trout properly, and you can feed them trout chow (yep, trout chow, like dog chow, but for trout). There was a trout hatchery near one of the places where I used to live. The runs were supplied with a continuous flow of water from nearby springs and a stream. I don't remember the actual turnover, but it seems like it was once or twice an hour all the water in a run was replaced with fresh by the continuous flow. Beyond this, I am at a loss. You may want to go to AquaNIC at http://www.aquanic.org to find more information. http://www.petsforum.com/was/aqua.html has a good number of links, some of which may be helpful to you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lbon3002 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] trout hello im just getting started in rasing trout. anybody out there can answer or guide me in some direction thank you Leslie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28356	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: trout

I live in Maine, and the trout here like very cold deep water. brookies like very very very cold water, not sure about rainbows, and browns like deep very cold and dark water. On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 11:03 PM, Sam Palermo <skywavebe@...> wrote: > Hi Leslie, > > I can remember that Trout are what they call cold water fish > that may not do well in the confines of a small pond. It seems to > me that I caught some out of a stream in South Dakota and that > water was pretty frigid. The good place to find out about > wild type fish like these would be the Game and Wildlife service. > Before I would start, I would make sure they are not protected > in any way and that there are no Bears around on which to feed > on them. That may be a pet that you don't want visiting. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > Deenerz@... <Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > Hi Leslie, > > > > I have zero experience with trout but you can take a look at the North > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: trout

Do a Google on 'aquarium trout' and you will find lots of links talking about trout in aquariums. Here's the first couple that have decent information. http://www.taxidermy.net/forums/FishTaxiArticles/03/f/03E17328A9.html http://www.hitech-solutions.com/trout/Setup.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] trout I live in Maine, and the trout here like very cold deep water. brookies like very very very cold water, not sure about rainbows, and browns like deep very cold and dark water. On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 11:03 PM, Sam Palermo <skywavebe@... <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net> > wrote: > Hi Leslie, > > I can remember that Trout are what they call cold water fish that may > not do well in the confines of a small pond. It seems to me that I > caught some out of a stream in South Dakota and that water was pretty > frigid. The good place to find out about wild type fish like these > would be the Game and Wildlife service. > Before I would start, I would make sure they are not protected in any > way and that there are no Bears around on which to feed on them. That > may be a pet that you don't want visiting. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam > Service Technician still doing repairs. > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > Hi Leslie, > > > > I have zero experience with trout but you can take a look at the > > North > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com> on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts <http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1507 - Release Date: 6/18/2008 7:09 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28358	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/18/2008
Subject: Re: trout

This raising trout is a rather broad topic to begin with, guiding you in the right direction would take some doing, especially since you have not told us a thing about your intentions with them, i.e., what you intend on raising them in, how long you intend on maintaining them, etc. As you must well know, trout (all trout species) grow rather large to say the least, with some species growing much larger than others. They are not aquarium fish, although you could temporarily raise a few up to what might be considered in most states as a "minimum keeping size," in an extremely large tank, with a chiller. Best result would be had in a stream running through your property, although barring that possibility, a natural pond with water constantly flowing in and out of it from a fresh source (partial diversion of a stream) would work fine. You also have not told us what kind (species) of trout you intend raising, unless you don't yet know at this point. If not, this matter is not to be taken lightly, and I would first highly recommend your research this entire subject. Since you haven't given us any information at all -- even on the parameters of the water you will be working with -- know that trout in general do not like warm water, even though some species may tolerate it briefly for a short time if clean and well oxygenated. Brown Trout will tolerate the highest temperatures of all other trout, at around 75 o F (BRIEFLY), but do best below 70 o F. They actually PREFER water at between 54 o F and 66 o F, with a pH between 6.7 and 8.2. Rainbow Trout prefer water of a pH between 6.8 and 7.8 (a slighly narrower range), and a temperate a bit lower than Browns. They will spawn around 55 o F - 58 o F, so that should tell you something -- Fish only spawn within the optimum water conditions that they enjoy. Brook trout are somewhat more tolerate as to the pH, with 6.5 to 8.5 being comfortable to them, and are more tolerant of slighly more acidic water. They do NEED colder water however, which should never go over 65 o F at any time -- preferably kept best at around 50 o F, but will do alright somewhere under 60 o F, provided again that the water is well oxygenated (colder -- and cleaner -- water holds increasingly more oxygen as the temperature drops. All trout must have a minimum of at least 5.0 ppm dissolved oxygen in their water at all times at the very least, more whenever possible. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "lbon3002" <lbon3002@...> wrote: > > hello im just getting started in rasing trout. anybody out there can > answer or guide me in some direction thank you Leslie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28359	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: Foam & Sponge

what's the difference?! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28360	From: caroline	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: bio filter

my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28361	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

Am I having a Deja vu moment? I swear this came up like a week ago. -MIke In a message dated 6/19/2008 12:31:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, waves02@... writes: my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28362	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: An article about PWC

Hi, I found this 'controversial' article on making several 'huge' PWC to reduce the nitrate level in a short time. I'm wondering what you'll have to say about the effects of this on fish. Noura An Instant Nitrate Reduction Method How to Reduce High Toxic Nitrates Quickly & Efficiently Many people try to reduce their nitrate levels by performing a series of partial (20%) water changes. This will reduce your nitrate (or any other chemical substance) levels, but it is rather inefficient if ... ...the object is to reduce the levels to near zero in the shortest period of time as possible, with the least amount of water. On the other hand, if you reduce the level of water in the tank to 20% of normal and then refill the tank to a 40% level, you have already reduced your nitrate levels by half. If you then refill the tank to the 100% level, your nitrate levels will be 20% of the original level that you started out at. If, on the other hand, you reduce the 40% water level once more to 20% and then refill the tank, you will end up with a nitrate level of 10% of what you started with. Perform the 40% to 20% reduction once more, and you will end up with a nitrate level of 5% of what you started with. Just think about it for a minute. If you started out with a nitrate level of 100 ppm and used this method, your 100 ppm nitrates would be reduced, in a short period of time, to 5 ppm, which is considered, by most, to be an acceptable level even for corals. High nitrate accumulation, sometimes referred to as old tank syndrome, can be a common problem for long time aquaria keepers. It usually occurs when regular maintenance and water change routines are ignored. As an experiment, we allowed our tank nitrates to rise to a dangerously high level, literally off the scale, to observe the transitions the tank would go through. The experiment was successful in that it allowed us to observe the formation of the different algae. When our experiment was over, we decided to try out this instant nitrate reduction water change method that had been contemplated for some time. Performing the water change method shown in the animated graphic below, we reduced our nitrates quickly to zero with no ill or harmful effects to any of our established aquarium residents; a 15" Snowflake Eel, some various types of hermit crabs and snails, a few crabs, two colonies of Zoanthid, some non-living corals, and some live rock. The behavior of the tank inhabitants improved greatly afterwards as well. They became more active, started eating better, and had brighter colors within a few days. We even added a new mated pair of Coral Banded Shrimps the day after completion of the water change procedure, with no problems at all. Some people have expressed concern that the rapid reduction of nitrates would "shock" the tank critters. This is an understandable concern, but under the circumstances wouldn't you think that the rapid reduction of potentially harmful toxins in a tank to be of the utmost importance, and a lot less harmless? It would be like standing in a closed garage with a car engine running, filling the garage with carbon monoxide, and someone telling you not to open the garage door; that the rapid reduction in carbon monoxide levels would in some way be more harmful to you than only reducing their levels by 20%. If it was me in that situation, I would kick the door open as far as it would go. To avoid the urgent need to have to reduce high toxic nitrate levels quickly, it is much easier to following regular maintenance and water change routines. If you are in a position where everything you have tried does not seem to work and your nitrates continue to be a problem, you might try this water change method out. We wanted to see what the results and effects would be of performing this water change process as quickly as possible. No problems resulted. However, if you are concerned about "shocking" your tank inhabitants, you can always perform this process over a period of time (waiting a few days between each water change process) until the nitrates are reduced. Happy Fish & Reef Keeping, Stan Hauter Your About Guide to Saltwater Aquariums http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/nitratecontrol/l/aa091901.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28363	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: Re: An article about PWC

While many people do 50% or larger PWC's, doing more than 25% PWC's at a time can result in a change in water parameters too much, too fast which can result in pH shock, temperature shock, osmoregulatory issues, stress issues, etc. That article was dealing with a SW tank and did not give any actual test results so I have no clue what his other water parameters were. Of course, nitrates are far more toxic to SW fish, compared to FW fish. Generally speaking, when a FW tank gets a high nitrate level (over 300ppm), it usually means that the overall ecology of the tank has changed substantially and the water will have a lower pH, GH and KH. Doing a large, drastic change at that point could cause the fish to suffer from pH shock or osmoregulatory issues due to changing the pH, GH and KH too much, too fast. If someone fully understands all of these ecology, biology and chemistry issues and is able to competently test their water and the water they are going to replace it with to make sure that the water parameters and similar enough to not cause problems, then it would be OK to do a large PWC. Most people do not fully understand all of these things which is why it's best to do a series of smaller PWCs.... 25% PWC's or less, depending on the difference in water parameters... so that you will still get the water back into good shape but without risking potential shock/stress issues to the fish. \\Steve// wrote a long article about Nitrates (and FW tanks) in this forum a long time ago. I couldn't find the link so here is a copy/paste of the article below my signature. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com From: \\Steve// Subject: Nitrate - Long post There does seem to be a lot of unnecessary concern of nitrate levels expressed by people on this list for relatively low levels of nitrate. Nitrate is the end product of the ammonia cycle ("The Nitrogen Cycle") that occurs in every tank. There is no easy way to naturally remove nitrate without the use of a setup that uses anaerobic bacteria to reduce nitrate to its components. The usual method of deal with nitrate is water changes (25% PWC's) and the addition of live plants, which includes algal growth. At what level should one really become concerned about the level of nitrates in the aquarium. A level of 1000 ppm is definitely a concern, since everything dies. So we need to go lower than that. 500 ppm is still of definite concern. Many animals and plants will die at this level also, but some will live, though not well, as they will be subject to long-term effects of nitrate, such as hole-in-head disease and the erosion of the lateral line. Some plants also will not survive this level of nitrates. At 200 ppm, the effects of nitrate will be more long term than immediate. Again, we would be looking at such things as later line disease and hole-in-head as a result. Going lower will help reduce the effects. At 150 ppm, again, the effects are long term. Going even lower, long term effects are still present. Ideally, one would wish to reduce nitrate levels to less than 20 ppm, but immediate action is not called for until you reach a number of more than 150 ppm. Please do note that figures for a marine (salt water) aquarium are very much different, and action is called for when nitrate is measured in the single digits of ppm. In a marine environment, it is possible to reduce nitrates to immeasurable levels through the use of foam fractioners, which do not work well in fresh water. So, you notice that your nitrates are rising, or at a high level. One can simply panic and do immediate large water changes (or a series of 3-4 24% PWC's) to reduce the level of nitrates. However, doing this fails to discover and remedy the core cause of the high level of nitrates. Unless you are getting reading over 150 ppm of nitrate, you do have some time to do investigative work to discover and remedy the cause of the nitrates, while your regular water changes (25% PWC's) should help you reduce the level. Where does nitrate come from? Nitrate is the end product of the ammonia cycle ("The Nitrogen Cycle") as we follow it in the aquarium. Ammonia is produced as a waste product by the animals you have living in your tank. It can also be produced by dead and decaying animals and plants as well as food added to the aquarium. If you are using fertilizer for your plants, this may also be a source of ammonia. You need to reduce the sources of ammonia. Feeding less will help reduce the level. Most of us feed our fish too well. A day of fasting may help the health of your fish, as well as reducing the amount fed each day. Raising fry is a whole other ball of wax, which I will not be covering here, but to get quick growth you do want to ensure they are well fed. If there is left over food when you are feeding, you will need to reduce the amount of food you give to your fish, until there is no left-overs in the tank. Until this is remedied, you will want to wait a while after feeding the fish, then siphon off the left-overs. If you are fertilizing your live plants, you will want to reduce or stop the fertilization of the plants or start adding only the trace elements your plants may need for good growth and avoid a fertilizer that contain nitrogenous products. Also look for and remove any dead materials from your aquarium. Likely, if this is a fish, you'll do it rather rapidly. If it is plant material, then you will need to, perhaps, do this on a daily basis. Algae poses a particular problem. Removal of algae will reduce the capacity of your aquarium to remove nitrates, but then, it is also difficult to know when to remove it because it may be dead or simply another form of algae. It may be best to follow your aesthetic sense and remove what does not appeal to you, and remove any that is not green. Those of you that have snails in your aquarium are faced with a sometimes difficult decision--is the snail dead or is it alive? Tough to tell sometimes. However, if you have a nitrate problem, it may be well to take the conservative course of action and remove any snails you have doubts about, either to dispose of or to place in another environment. (You can always do the smell test on a snail. If it smells rotten, it's probably dead but you can put it in another container with some of your tank water if you want to be cautious.) Throughout this entire process, you will need to keep an eye on the progress you are making. Go back to daily testing of your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels. Also test your tap water, which could be another source of nitrates in your aquarium. The EPA has a regulation that states that drinking water should not contain more than 10 ppm of nitrate. However, from reports of aquarist's around the country, not all water companies are meeting this requirement. Also, if you are using well water, your nitrates may be high, especially when the aquifer is in agricultural parts of the country. Our well fertilized lawns and gardens can also have an effect on the nitrate level of aquifers, but most research has pointed to agriculture as a large culprit. If your water is starting with unacceptable levels of nitrate, you will need to look into means to reduce the nitrate before the water reaches the aquarium. This is usually done with chemical adsorption products. If your nitrate level still does not lower after doing all this, you will need to look at some other aspects of your aquarium. I have mentioned live plants in this discussion, but I am aware that not all people utilize live plants in their aquariums. There may be practical reasons for this, like the vegetarian habits of your fish prevent the growth of plant s to any great extent, and may reduce the number of plants you have, your fish may be diggers that uproot plants, etc. Your tank may simply be overcrowded with fish, and be overloading the biological processes that would normally handle such situations. In the former situation, you may want to utilize the marine idea of a refugarium, where there is a separate tank that water flows through that has plants to pull out the "bad stuff" from the water, with water from the main tank run through the filtration system into the refugarium and back into the main tank. You may also wish to investigate plants that may be immune to the predation of your fish. As for overcrowding, well, you simply need to reduce the numbers of fish that are present in the tank. You may set up more aquariums to house them or give them to friends who would like them. You may even be able to bring them back to you LFS for credit. Another source may be a decoration that has recently been added to your tank that is leaching substances into your water as it 'cures' in your tank. Removal of this object will show a quick and drastic reduction with your next water change. Should this be the case, you'll need to either cure the item outside the tank, or do without it inside the tank. Also, not usual, but, perhaps not as unusual as we may like to think, there may be an outside force acting upon the tank, like something some one has added to the tank without your knowledge. One of the kids could have put something in the tank without your knowledge and you may never know if the youngin' expects they'll get a punishment for admitting it or an adult at a party may have added something just o see what the fish will do. This kind of thing can be the devil to track down, and the influence will abate with time. What ever you need to do, don't panic. Take things slowly and try to identify the cause of the problem. Your fish will allow you time to fix things. Should you be keeping marine fish, well, as I mentioned earlier, we are in a whole other ballpark there, and you may need to take more rapid action to avoid losing animals. Marine animals have less a tolerance for nitrate than freshwater do, and I would advise you to find a guru near you that can be of assistance. I'm not a marine person, nor do I play one on TV, and do not claim to have any special knowledge of marine topics. Don't buy into any 'magic' cures for what ails your tank. They may do more harm than good. Thank you for your patience reading this long, and somewhat involved post. \\Steve// Here is a follow-up email from Steve to me. Lenny, I've been out of town since before you posted this, and have just returned today. I do need to emphasize that there are some fish, such as those of the _Apistogramma_genus (at least some have been placed in the _Microgeophagus_genus now, I think), that are fairly intolerant of nitrates of any level. One needs to check the literature available on these, and any other species of fish to determine what levels of nitrate they can stand. I do not believe this was emphasized in my original post properly. The original post was merely meant to ease some people's fears, and therefore need to do something immediately, about nitrate levels that may be considered to be too high. Rapid changes in water chemistry can be more dangerous to the fish than the condition you are trying to correct. Generally, if the nitrates are out of whack, it did not happen overnight, but was a gradual rise over a period of time. The correction should lead to a gradual downward trend over time. If you are keeping fish that are sensitive to even minimal levels of nitrate, such as the rams mentioned above, you may need to react quickly to change the level, and try to save as many as you can, but generally, a slow and considered approach is best for all involved. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] An article about PWC Hi, I found this 'controversial' article on making several 'huge' PWC to reduce the nitrate level in a short time. I'm wondering what you'll have to say about the effects of this on fish. Noura An Instant Nitrate Reduction Method How to Reduce High Toxic Nitrates Quickly & Efficiently Many people try to reduce their nitrate levels by performing a series of partial (20%) water changes. This will reduce your nitrate (or any other chemical substance) levels, but it is rather inefficient if ... ...the object is to reduce the levels to near zero in the shortest period of time as possible, with the least amount of water. On the other hand, if you reduce the level of water in the tank to 20% of normal and then refill the tank to a 40% level, you have already reduced your nitrate levels by half. If you then refill the tank to the 100% level, your nitrate levels will be 20% of the original level that you started out at. If, on the other hand, you reduce the 40% water level once more to 20% and then refill the tank, you will end up with a nitrate level of 10% of what you started with. Perform the 40% to 20% reduction once more, and you will end up with a nitrate level of 5% of what you started with. Just think about it for a minute. If you started out with a nitrate level of 100 ppm and used this method, your 100 ppm nitrates would be reduced, in a short period of time, to 5 ppm, which is considered, by most, to be an acceptable level even for corals. High nitrate accumulation, sometimes referred to as old tank syndrome, can be a common problem for long time aquaria keepers. It usually occurs when regular maintenance and water change routines are ignored. As an experiment, we allowed our tank nitrates to rise to a dangerously high level, literally off the scale, to observe the transitions the tank would go through. The experiment was successful in that it allowed us to observe the formation of the different algae. When our experiment was over, we decided to try out this instant nitrate reduction water change method that had been contemplated for some time. Performing the water change method shown in the animated graphic below, we reduced our nitrates quickly to zero with no ill or harmful effects to any of our established aquarium residents; a 15" Snowflake Eel, some various types of hermit crabs and snails, a few crabs, two colonies of Zoanthid, some non-living corals, and some live rock. The behavior of the tank inhabitants improved greatly afterwards as well. They became more active, started eating better, and had brighter colors within a few days. We even added a new mated pair of Coral Banded Shrimps the day after completion of the water change procedure, with no problems at all. Some people have expressed concern that the rapid reduction of nitrates would "shock" the tank critters. This is an understandable concern, but under the circumstances wouldn't you think that the rapid reduction of potentially harmful toxins in a tank to be of the utmost importance, and a lot less harmless? It would be like standing in a closed garage with a car engine running, filling the garage with carbon monoxide, and someone telling you not to open the garage door; that the rapid reduction in carbon monoxide levels would in some way be more harmful to you than only reducing their levels by 20%. If it was me in that situation, I would kick the door open as far as it would go. To avoid the urgent need to have to reduce high toxic nitrate levels quickly, it is much easier to following regular maintenance and water change routines. If you are in a position where everything you have tried does not seem to work and your nitrates continue to be a problem, you might try this water change method out. We wanted to see what the results and effects would be of performing this water change process as quickly as possible. No problems resulted. However, if you are concerned about "shocking" your tank inhabitants, you can always perform this process over a period of time (waiting a few days between each water change process) until the nitrates are reduced. Happy Fish & Reef Keeping, Stan Hauter Your About Guide to Saltwater Aquariums http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/nitratecontrol/l/aa091901.htm <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/nitratecontrol/l/aa091901.htm> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1509 - Release Date: 6/19/2008 8:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28364	From: Blue fish	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C404056514A48425A445146445A515F4F ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C404056514A48425A445146445A515F4F Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C404056514A48425A445146445A515F4B Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28365	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

First rinse the sponge filter and clean out the intake tube. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: caroline To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:26 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] bio filter my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1507 - Release Date: 6/18/2008 7:09 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28366	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

Generally a Bio wheel filter does not have a sponge. AquaClear filters are the "sponge" Hang On Back power filters. (Usually) -Mike First rinse the sponge filter and clean out the intake tube. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: caroline To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:26 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] bio filter my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 6:35 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] bio filter First rinse the sponge filter and clean out the intake tube. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: caroline To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:26 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] bio filter my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1507 - Release Date: 6/18/2008 7:09 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28367	From: mandacaplan	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: Help..koi keep dying

I am new to this koi hobby and I am having trouble and I am wondering if anyone can help me...I have had fish tanks my whole life and never had problems like this. Anyhow we converted a hot tub into a koi pond so it is a little less then 500 gallons. It has live plants, a filter with UV light made for up to 1000 gallon ponds, a pump, a spitter, and a fountain jet to produce more O2. Everything bad started happening after I treated the pond with algae fix....I lost 5 fish even though I know I did not overdose...maybe lack of O2 since at that time I only had the filter spitter and not the waterfall. I did a partial water change and cleaned out the filter. The algea just keep growing and the water kept getting darker so I bought a new product that is supposed to help a lot called Green Clean. I applied that as directed and next day I lost 2 more fish. I have checked water quality and the only thing that was a problem was high ammonia(I think due to a lot of recent spanwning) so I used Ammo-lock.....the other thing was the PH was somewhat low so I also added a PH increaser. I have now added the next step that they say to use which is Microbe lift/PL. I need help...anyone have any advice. I hate to lose these beautiful fish all of the time.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28368	From: Rddelon73	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: Re: Indianapolis, IN

Good Afternoon!   I apologize for being soo late contacting you.  Do you still have these tanks available?  I am looking to upgrade my Convicts (babies are getting a little bigger, and the parents keep hiding under their 'mating rock' :) ).  Please let me know if they are still available.   thank you for your consideration,   Re --- On Mon, 6/16/08, Duriel Krugaire <dlkruger2000@...> wrote: From: Duriel Krugaire <dlkruger2000@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Indianapolis, IN To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 1:14 PM Hi, I have a couple of tanks for someone interested in enjoying fish. I had the tanks setup with undergravel filters & chilods for years, but I am moving to AZ. If anyone local is interested in a 55gal round front & 45 gallon 3' wide, with stands & all the fixings, please email me. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28369	From: judy_be	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: cheese cloth

I am setting up a new, bigger tank for my corydoras. That's all I have. I've had a snail problem for many years and I hope I can set up the new tank so there will be NO SNAILS. I thought of straining the water from the old tank, at least most of it, through a few layers of cheese cloth. Think that will work? Thanks, Judy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28370	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: Re: Help..koi keep dying

First, understand that your 500 gallons is good for 2, maybe 3, koi as they are growing. Not knowing what the size of the fish are right now leaves us at a disadvantage. Algae is a problem with all koi ponds. Many use UV to try to keep it under control. You will want some algae, since it will serve as a food source for your fish. Also remember that koi are "dirty" fish, like goldfish are, but they can grow much larger than goldfish. I am not familiar with Algaefix, but reading the MSDS, there is this line: " Harmful to aquatic organisms." That would kind of raise a red flag with me. Also raising a red flag is that a lot of the risk categories contain the phrase " is not thought to be", which means that the product was not extensively tested. Green Clean is another product I am not familiar with. In my search for info, I ran across this on one seller's web site, " Once added to water the dry granules lose their toxicity." That kind of scares me. I was not able to find an MSDS on the product, and was unable to join the web site of the manufacturer to determine if there is an MSDS and what ingredients the stuff contains. Your high ammonia and lowering pH can result from the algae decomposing in the pond, the number of fish in the pond, a failure to fully cycle the pond, organic matter from the yard falling into the pond, insufficient filter media to establish a large enough habitat for nitrifying bacteria, and maybe a few things I may have missed. Any one or combination of these things can give you problems with the proper nitrogen cycling that should be occurring in your pond. Things that you can do to alleviate your problems: 1. Reduce your fish population to two or three fish. 2. Stop with the chemical additions to your water. 3. Reduce feedings to all your fish can eat in two minutes. 4. Do regular water changes just like you have done in your tanks over the years. 5. Ensure that your UV unit is clean and working properly. 6. Give us more information: a. Number and size of your current population. b. Information about your filtration--brand name may help as well as how it is set up. c. You mentioned you have plants in your setup. What kind? d. Numbers for your water parameters, so we know what you are working with. Measurements from the tap will help. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mandacaplan Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 10:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help..koi keep dying I am new to this koi hobby and I am having trouble and I am wondering if anyone can help me...I have had fish tanks my whole life and never had problems like this. Anyhow we converted a hot tub into a koi pond so it is a little less then 500 gallons. It has live plants, a filter with UV light made for up to 1000 gallon ponds, a pump, a spitter, and a fountain jet to produce more O2. Everything bad started happening after I treated the pond with algae fix....I lost 5 fish even though I know I did not overdose...maybe lack of O2 since at that time I only had the filter spitter and not the waterfall. I did a partial water change and cleaned out the filter. The algea just keep growing and the water kept getting darker so I bought a new product that is supposed to help a lot called Green Clean. I applied that as directed and next day I lost 2 more fish. I have checked water quality and the only thing that was a problem was high ammonia(I think due to a lot of recent spanwning) so I used Ammo-lock.....the other thing was the PH was somewhat low so I also added a PH increaser. I have now added the next step that they say to use which is Microbe lift/PL. I need help...anyone have any advice. I hate to lose these beautiful fish all of the time.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28371	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: Re: Help..koi keep dying

Hi Manda, I had a similar problem last year in a larger pond that had been established for 14 years. The mid size gold fish I had kept on being found dead. I tried a lot of chemicals and remedial action but it took a lot to get the whole thing under control. We actually took the pond down over a weekend all 10'X17'X48" deep worth and scrubbed the liner clean and removed all the insides. When you say Ammonia is all you have wrong, that is the most important element to keep out of the water. I bought a lot of chemicals and then a fancy $250 meter to measure the Ammonia. Still we lost about 70 fish. Apparently when we counted them coming out into a temp pond I put together while cleaning there were about 250 fish in this pond- I know it was over populated and even now I am trying to give away fish to good pond owners but I have found no takers. These are just feeders that have developed into larger fish that are just as colorful as the Koi but less sensitive to bad water. Koi are the most sensitive to bad water so unless you are really on top of the chemistry you are headed for disappointment. I would call in a Koi expert from a fish shop or consult a Marine Biologist with Koi as a specialty. I think in our cleaning, we did finally find one small decaying fish under a filter that was in the water that may have tipped the entire scale to cause this disaster. One idea you can use is to take some of the fish to a different tank or established pond that will allow them to be removed from the stress while you deal with the problem at hand. I went crazy contacting all kinds of people in the Pond business in the Chicago area and you know what I found? There are no experts to help you in great times of need like this- it is all up to you. I even called the Game and Wildlife division of the government and they got back to me but this is out of their experience but at least they called me back. The guy who builds ponds in my town told me he would just take the whole thing down and clean it. I asked him what size ponds he does and he said all the way up to $250,000 size ponds. The water can be tested at a fish shop as well but the ammonia needs to be very very low and then from past exposure you still may lose a couple yet. Ammonia has to be near 0 ppm or as close to .25ppm or lower. If above this, Ammo chips can be added to the filter path and 20% partial water changes with anticloramine added as needed. This may take a week or two to get back to acceptable levels. Don't kill algae with chemicals! Especially with koi in the water, they will not like it or live through the process. The UV device if at 9watts or better and the right flow rate should do the trick. 1 tetra 9W unit clears my pond in about a week- only the free floating algae not the stuff on the liner or rocks. I hope this helps. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. mandacaplan wrote: > > I am new to this koi hobby and I am having trouble and I am wondering > if anyone can help me...I have had fish tanks my whole life and never > had problems like this. Anyhow we converted a hot tub into a koi pond > so it is a little less then 500 gallons. It has live plants, a filter > with UV light made for up to 1000 gallon ponds, a pump, a spitter, and > a fountain jet to produce more O2. Everything bad started happening > after I treated the pond with algae fix....I lost 5 fish even though I > know I did not overdose...maybe lack of O2 since at that time I only > had the filter spitter and not the waterfall. I did a partial water > change and cleaned out the filter. The algea just keep growing and the > water kept getting darker so I bought a new product that is supposed to > help a lot called Green Clean. I applied that as directed and next day > I lost 2 more fish. I have checked water quality and the only thing > that was a problem was high ammonia(I think due to a lot of recent > spanwning) so I used Ammo-lock.....the other thing was the PH was > somewhat low so I also added a PH increaser. I have now added the next > step that they say to use which is Microbe lift/PL. I need > help...anyone have any advice. I hate to lose these beautiful fish all > of the time. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28372	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: Re: Help..koi keep dying

Hi Manda, I see that Steve has already replied and I concur with his reply. Your pond is not large enough to be a "Koi Pond" unless you limit it to only a couple of Koi and even then, you'll have to do frequent PWC's (partial water changes).. at least weekly or more often and increase your filtration. For a mini-pond, you would be better off going with goldfish and there is a goldfish called a Sarassa Comet and many of them have similar markings to Koi but they stay in the 12" range so you could have five or six of them (and possibly as many as ten) without too many problems as long as you keep up with your weekly PWC's and filter cleaning/maintenance. Keeping a pond successfully (knowing how the ecology/biology/chemistry all works together) is kind of like riding a bike. When you are first starting out, you're going to have incidents and then one day it's all going to click and it will all be so easy then. The biggest thing that ALL fishkeepers need to know and fully understand is "The Nitrogen Cycle" (Ammonia>Nitrite>Nitrate). On my blog (link in my sig), I have a page called "A to Z of Fishkeeping" and there are two free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fishkeeping. The tutorials are mostly geared towards aquariums but the ecology/biology/chemistry is the same... a pond is just a big outdoor aquarium. A pond also has other issues because it is outdoors so you have to deal with leaves, other animals, etc. On the right side of my blog, there are also links to pond specific articles that make good reading as well. The main thing with keeping fish is to stay away from as many chemicals as possible and fresh clean water (frequent PWC's) is the best remedy for most problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mandacaplan Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help..koi keep dying I am new to this koi hobby and I am having trouble and I am wondering if anyone can help me...I have had fish tanks my whole life and never had problems like this. Anyhow we converted a hot tub into a koi pond so it is a little less then 500 gallons. It has live plants, a filter with UV light made for up to 1000 gallon ponds, a pump, a spitter, and a fountain jet to produce more O2. Everything bad started happening after I treated the pond with algae fix....I lost 5 fish even though I know I did not overdose...maybe lack of O2 since at that time I only had the filter spitter and not the waterfall. I did a partial water change and cleaned out the filter. The algea just keep growing and the water kept getting darker so I bought a new product that is supposed to help a lot called Green Clean. I applied that as directed and next day I lost 2 more fish. I have checked water quality and the only thing that was a problem was high ammonia(I think due to a lot of recent spanwning) so I used Ammo-lock.....the other thing was the PH was somewhat low so I also added a PH increaser. I have now added the next step that they say to use which is Microbe lift/PL. I need help...anyone have any advice. I hate to lose these beautiful fish all of the time. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1510 - Release Date: 6/19/2008 3:21 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28373	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth

Snails are not in the water column in most cases so I don't think this is necessary, although I do occasionally see one drop from a plant and float down to the bottom but the snail eggs are going to be on the plants and other surfaces of the tank. Do you keep live plants in your tanks (that's usually where snails come from)? If you do, check out these two links for info on disinfecting/sanitizing your plants... http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 Whenever I upgrade a tank, I "clone" it into the bigger tank. The way I do this is by doing daily PWC's on the existing tank for a week before the move so that the fish slowly get acclimated to almost "new" water. Then when it's time to "clone", I take 1/2 of the existing tank water and siphon it into the new tank. Then add up to an equal amount of dechlored tap water to the new tank. The existing tank should have nearly identical water parameters to the tap water baseline because of the daily PWC's done prior to the cloning. Then move the decorations, plants and filter system to the new tank... this moves the majority of the N-bacteria to the new tank. Then move the fish. Since the temperature and other parameters should be identical to their existing tank, there should be no acclimation issues. Now comes the gravel. I put a colander in the old tank and then use a slotted spoon or spatula and fill up the colander with the gravel. Then lift the colander and slosh it a little to get the majority of the detritus out of the gravel. Then lift it out the old tank, let it drain a minute and then move it to the new tank and slowly lower it to the bottom and then slowly pour it out onto the bottom of the new tank. You have now cloned the majority of the ecology from the old tank to the new tank so you should not have any cycling issues, acclimation issues, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judy_be Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cheese cloth I am setting up a new, bigger tank for my corydoras. That's all I have. I've had a snail problem for many years and I hope I can set up the new tank so there will be NO SNAILS. I thought of straining the water from the old tank, at least most of it, through a few layers of cheese cloth. Think that will work? Thanks, Judy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1510 - Release Date: 6/19/2008 3:21 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28374	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Water Testing Article

This article, " Aquarium and Pond Water Testing," found on Fish Channel, came to my attention earlier this week, and I have just had a chance to scan it. The author, John Farrell Kuhns has probably forgotten more about water quality in the aquarium than many of us have ever known. He is also the inventor of Amquel (the original), Novaqua, Polyaqua, and several other water conditioners and sterilizers. His newest formulations are now distributed by HikariUSA, in the United States. In this article he gives some thoughts on water testing and the pitfalls one may encounter. It is well worth reading. http://www.fishchannel.com/newsletter/special-edition.aspx Registration may be required. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28375	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth

I'm going to do this as well and have the same wish...no snails. How do you sanitize the decorations (in my case rocks) to kill the snail eggs? And how do you remove the tiny baby snails from the substrate when they are the same size as the grains? In my case, I will probably use new decorations and substrate just to foil the snails. But one last and most important question. How can you be sure there are no tiny baby snails or eggs lurking in the filter? Because THAT is how I cycle my new tanks...transfer a used filter. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] cheese cloth Snails are not in the water column in most cases so I don't think this is necessary, although I do occasionally see one drop from a plant and float down to the bottom but the snail eggs are going to be on the plants and other surfaces of the tank. Do you keep live plants in your tanks (that's usually where snails come from)? If you do, check out these two links for info on disinfecting/sanitizing your plants... http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 Whenever I upgrade a tank, I "clone" it into the bigger tank. The way I do this is by doing daily PWC's on the existing tank for a week before the move so that the fish slowly get acclimated to almost "new" water. Then when it's time to "clone", I take 1/2 of the existing tank water and siphon it into the new tank. Then add up to an equal amount of dechlored tap water to the new tank. The existing tank should have nearly identical water parameters to the tap water baseline because of the daily PWC's done prior to the cloning. Then move the decorations, plants and filter system to the new tank... this moves the majority of the N-bacteria to the new tank. Then move the fish. Since the temperature and other parameters should be identical to their existing tank, there should be no acclimation issues. Now comes the gravel. I put a colander in the old tank and then use a slotted spoon or spatula and fill up the colander with the gravel. Then lift the colander and slosh it a little to get the majority of the detritus out of the gravel. Then lift it out the old tank, let it drain a minute and then move it to the new tank and slowly lower it to the bottom and then slowly pour it out onto the bottom of the new tank. You have now cloned the majority of the ecology from the old tank to the new tank so you should not have any cycling issues, acclimation issues, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judy_be Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cheese cloth I am setting up a new, bigger tank for my corydoras. That's all I have. I've had a snail problem for many years and I hope I can set up the new tank so there will be NO SNAILS. I thought of straining the water from the old tank, at least most of it, through a few layers of cheese cloth. Think that will work? Thanks, Judy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1510 - Release Date: 6/19/2008 3:21 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28376	From: maj7787	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water

Hi everyone.....just wana ask if there's anyone here who knows anything abt finding cat furs in the aquarium...you see, my cat likes to sleep on the aquarium cover and due to the small gaps in the cover, her furs get into the water below.Is there any harm done to the fishes? I know cat fur is not clean as cats roam abt everywhere and this is my main concern now....pls let me know if any of you know something abt this matter. ok thanx. Imran

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28377	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water

Put some obstacles on top of the tank so it will not be a place where the cat wants to sleep. As far as the cat hair... as long as you don't spray the cat with flea/tick spray or treat it with one of the topical skin treatments (Advantix, Frontline, etc.), then you should be OK. They do sell protein skimmers that are mainly used for SW tanks but you could get one for your FW tank which would constantly suck up the surface water and filter it which should take care of the cat hair should you decide to continue letting the cat sleep on top of the tank. You could also make a cover for the top of the tank out of some kind of material that allows some breathability but would not allow the cat hair to get through it into the tank. Last but not least, you could shave the cat.. lol Those bald cats/dogs are so ugly, they're kind of cute... but I doubt your cat would think so. lol Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of maj7787 Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cat Fur in Aquarium Water Hi everyone.....just wana ask if there's anyone here who knows anything abt finding cat furs in the aquarium...you see, my cat likes to sleep on the aquarium cover and due to the small gaps in the cover, her furs get into the water below.Is there any harm done to the fishes? I know cat fur is not clean as cats roam abt everywhere and this is my main concern now....pls let me know if any of you know something abt this matter. ok thanx. Imran No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28378	From: Zinfin	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth/snails

Hi, I feel your pain with the snails. I don't know if the cheese cloth will work, but I've read that soaking plants and decorations in a solution of potassium permanganate will kill any snails and snail eggs. I just bought some in the water softener section at Menards because I'd like to start a new tank with no snails. Read the cautionary directions because this looks like strong stuff. Glen -----Original Message----- From: "judy_be" <tootsie2toes@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: 6/20/2008 7:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] cheese cloth I am setting up a new, bigger tank for my corydoras. That's all I have. I've had a snail problem for many years and I hope I can set up the new tank so there will be NO SNAILS. I thought of straining the water from the old tank, at least most of it, through a few layers of cheese cloth. Think that will work? Thanks, Judy [truncated by sender]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28379	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28380	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Something *ate* my filter media?!?

Oookay... so I looked in my tank today and saw some whitish stuff on the lip of my in-tank filter. I thought that was strange, so I reached in to clean it up and it was slimy but fibrous. So I pulled out the filter media to check it to see if anything was wrong... and it is partially dissolved! As if bacteria ate the fibers! Has anyone had this happen to them? The filter was a little under a month old, it came with me on my move (bagged in water) and it did get a tad warm on the way down but nothing major. It was still in the same condition I had bought it in when I re-setup the tank here. The only thing I can think of is that I am on well water which goes through a cavern system before reaching us and thus has cave bacteria living in it. When I pulled the filter media out it dissolved and made a mess of the tank so I took the betta girls out and put them in their cups for the meantime. I've removed most of the bits and pieces, but the water is still icky. Should I just run the new filter media for a while, or should I change out the tank water? I don't want my filter to be eaten again, but I also don't want to change the water so drastically! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28381	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water

It can clog your impeller. Not too sure about the fish getting ill from the fur. -Mike In a message dated 6/21/2008 9:04:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, maj7787@... writes: Hi everyone....Hi everyone....<WBR>.just wana ask if there' anything abt finding cat furs in the aquarium...you see, my cat likes to sleep on the aquarium cover and due to the small gaps in the cover, her furs get into the water below.Is there any harm done to the fishes? I know cat fur is not clean as cats roam abt everywhere and this is my main concern now....pls let me know if any of you know something abt this matter. ok thanx. Imran **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28382	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?

Once again I probably didn't use the right terms for you gurus... I just wanted to specify that the "filter media" I'm referring to is the filter wool sans any charcoal, zeolite, etc. I had dumped the contents when I bought it because I have a planted tank. It is only my second filter media (and the first to be run without the charcoal), but the first lasted over 2.5 months and I only replaced it because I was told every 3 months I needed a new one. I had planned to replace the filter wool with a sponge anyway, so if this is a flaw with the wool it is no big deal, it just surprised me. So when I say "new filter media" I'm referring to a sponge (that I have to travel an hour away to pick up - but am going out that way on monday for a dr appt so I'll get it then). The question which still stands (rephraised): how do I get the filter wool fiber out of the tank water? Is it okay to just run the filter with the new sponge to suck it up? Anywhere else I've missed terms or background info, please let me know before attacking. Thanks! -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28383	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth

I've thought of that for my own problem. Debris gets right through a penguin filter cartridge, it will get right through cheese cloth. Actually I tried straining the water through a nylon mesh coffee filter and that didn't remove teh small particles. I am wondering though how much a penguin filter cartridge is really good for. It seems pretty thin and it's wearing out, and of course if you just replace it you lose your biofilter. Is there a way to reinforce it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28384	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

This is a situation where cartridge filers are real nice. You can get cartridges of varying porosity to filter out what you want. For instance, you could get a filter rated at 3 microns and everything 3 microns and larger will be filtered out (and eventually, smaller than 3 microns as the filter clogs). Now, I presume you have a hang off the back kind of filter. The problem you are experiencing is probably due to the clogging of the filter media, and water is going around the media without being filtered. You'll need to pull the media out and replace it. Either rinse the current media and re-use that, or use fresh media. Repeat as needed. You may also have a problem in that the filter is not properly circulating the water throughout the tank. If this is the case, the filter may not be sized properly, or the clean water is falling too near the filter intake. The first is easy to resolve, get a properly sized filter. The second can be more problematic. You'll need to devise a method for diverting the outflow to go further away from the outlet. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28385	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth

Even a micron filter like a Diatom filter will let things through. As long as they are smaller than one micron. Diatom filters are usually very powerful and have to force or pull water past the diatomaceous earth to get the full filter effect. Even these super efficient filters clog quickly. There are a couple models that can be used as a filter 24 hours a day all year long with regular maintenance, but one is very loud and the others are no longer made and the parts are hard to locate. Even the powerful version will not clear the debris from the bottom of the tank unless a current forces it to the intake. They make gravel filter attachments for this unit so you can use it to clean your gravel. If smaller items get past the gravel filter attachment it can break the impeller and they are not cheap on these units. I have a couple of these filters and they are a bear to get started. Once they are running properly though they will make the water in the tank crystal clear. Your fish will appear as if they are floating in air. But it is such a hassle to set these up and run them they remain in their boxes for the last several years. Too much hassle. As for the debris on the bottom of the tank a filter will not pick that up unless a current of water whisks it directly to the intake of the filter. This is why we have to siphon the bottoms of our tanks. Even in a well designed pond with sloping walls and the drain to the filter at the very bottom will still get debris all over the bottom of the pond. Penguins are still my 2nd favorite hang on back filter. My favorite has been the aquaclear. But I will stop here as I know we have talked a lot in the past about theses two filters. -Mike In a message dated 6/21/2008 11:38:56 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: I've thought of that for my own problem. Debris gets right through a penguin filter cartridge, it will get right through cheese cloth. Actually I tried straining the water through a nylon mesh coffee filter and that didn't remove teh small particles. I am wondering though how much a penguin filter cartridge is really good for. It seems pretty thin and it's wearing out, and of course if you just replace it you lose your biofilter. Is there a way to reinforce it? Yours, Dora Smith **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28386	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, holy molly

Thanks _\\Steve//_ (file://\\Steve//) Sorry for the long delay - but, after I returned from buying a new bucket and to my LFS to get the filter, my herd of fry was greatly reduced. Since my tank is well planted and I still had a cloud of fry left, I decided to leave them in there and see what happens. I know that sounds cruel and I have to live with that decision, but there are still quite a few as of today. I tested my water before doing a pwc today to compare with my last tests to see what affect the (1) fry pack, (2) adding salt for the mollys and (3) having used Flourish Excel just prior to the frys arrival - and was surprised by the fact that the only number that changed significantly was the KH, which rose to 170 from 70 previously. I'm not sure if that is something to be concerned about? I don't plan to use the Excel again for a while for fear it may remove the algae which the molly love. GH was the same at 140, PH steady at 7.6, Ammonia and Nitrite at zero. Barbara In a message dated 6/16/2008 6:22:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steve@... writes: Barbara, Congratulations. However, it seems you may need to go to school to learn the proper name of a bunch of fish <g>. Unless your tank is well planted, you'll have a greatly reduced population of fry in short order. The mollies themselves may join in the free food bash that is being thrown in your 30 gallon tank. Only by hiding will the fry escape the predation. If this scenario does not ply out in the next few days, you will need to be prepared to move the fry elsewhere. First thing to do would be to start a bubble-up foam filter in the main tank that will be used as the mechanical/biological filter in your new container. Next would be to look around to see what may serve as a "tank" for the fry, a large bowl, a bucket, or anything that will hold around 3-5 gallons of water. This should suffice for the short term, until you complete your move and can think about this some more. You may also need a small heater to help maintain a relatively stable temperature in the temporary quarters. Just remember, you do not need to do anything fancy or "right" here, to supply a new home for the fry, just try to give them what they need--water of good quality and food. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, holy molly Yesterday, while doing a pwc I noticed that I have a swarm, bevy, flock of fry, and I expect they are from my new mollies. I know now that the mollies were not a good choice, but they were so beautiful. Anyway, since I don't have any preditors (other than the ZDs) I assume I am now WAY overstocked in my 30g. Since I am moving in 15 days, I did not plan to add any tanks to my current location and hope that much more frequent pwcs will keep them alive until I move. Yikes, but they are the cutest things. Maybe I should set up a tank at the new house before I move? Barbara **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28387	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth/snails

Those two links I provided earlier in this thread had directions for using PP. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Zinfin Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: cheese cloth/snails Hi, I feel your pain with the snails. I don't know if the cheese cloth will work, but I've read that soaking plants and decorations in a solution of potassium permanganate will kill any snails and snail eggs. I just bought some in the water softener section at Menards because I'd like to start a new tank with no snails. Read the cautionary directions because this looks like strong stuff. Glen -----Original Message----- From: "judy_be" <tootsie2toes@... <mailto:tootsie2toes%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: 6/20/2008 7:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] cheese cloth I am setting up a new, bigger tank for my corydoras. That's all I have. I've had a snail problem for many years and I hope I can set up the new tank so there will be NO SNAILS. I thought of straining the water from the old tank, at least most of it, through a few layers of cheese cloth. Think that will work? Thanks, Judy [truncated by sender] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28388	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

Unless you have a powerful UGF, your filter system isn't designed to get the stuff out of the gravel. That is done when you do a gravel vacuum during your weekly PWC. If you do have a UGF, then you should have some polyfill or flosspad type filter media which should collect most of the small stuff. The rest gets vacuumed up during the PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28389	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?

What kind of filter media was it? I use poly pad, sponge blocks, etc. and I am still using the same stuff after years of use. It sounds like you must have used something that was biodegradable, rather than a polyester material that lasts a long, long, long time. Here are links to the kind of stuff I use in my filters... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&c=3578+41 50& http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4353&c=3578+41 50& http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4136+4235&pcat id=4235 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3622 See my blog for the "Filter Profile - Rena Filstar xP1" and how I set up my filter media. I don't think there are any polyester eating bacteria or the 70's might not have ever happened! ;-) Live, live, live, live, Stayin Alive, Stayin Alive! :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Something *ate* my filter media?!? Oookay... so I looked in my tank today and saw some whitish stuff on the lip of my in-tank filter. I thought that was strange, so I reached in to clean it up and it was slimy but fibrous. So I pulled out the filter media to check it to see if anything was wrong... and it is partially dissolved! As if bacteria ate the fibers! Has anyone had this happen to them? The filter was a little under a month old, it came with me on my move (bagged in water) and it did get a tad warm on the way down but nothing major. It was still in the same condition I had bought it in when I re-setup the tank here. The only thing I can think of is that I am on well water which goes through a cavern system before reaching us and thus has cave bacteria living in it. When I pulled the filter media out it dissolved and made a mess of the tank so I took the betta girls out and put them in their cups for the meantime. I've removed most of the bits and pieces, but the water is still icky. Should I just run the new filter media for a while, or should I change out the tank water? I don't want my filter to be eaten again, but I also don't want to change the water so drastically! -Lana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28390	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

The debris in the gravel is removed by vacuuming, not by the filter. If you want to try to ensure the debris does not fall to the gravel in the first place, then you want more water movement using a stronger filter or a powerhead. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28391	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

I just want to point out that this thread has been hijacked and the original poster still hasn't received a proper response to their question... "my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline" I don't know anything about rolling filters, but I'm sure someone here does - anyone have an answer for caroline? -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Unless you have a powerful UGF, your filter system isn't designed to get > the > stuff out of the gravel. That is done when you do a gravel vacuum during > your weekly PWC. If you do have a UGF, then you should have some polyfill > or flosspad type filter media which should collect most of the small stuff. > The rest gets vacuumed up during the PWC's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter > > Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to > filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick > cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28392	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

Lana, She did get replies as she posted the same topic a week earlier. Here is Lenny's post. RE: [AquaticLife] bio rolling filter Which brand/model do you have? There's usually something minor that causes a bio-wheel to quit spinning completely. One thing I've seen with my Penguin Bio-Wheel 200 model is there is a little half-moon cut-out next to the intake tube and if the filter cartridge gets clogged, water will overflow out of that half-moon, rather than go over the clogged filter. When this happens, not enough water flows past the bio-wheel to keep it spinning properly. Go to my blog and see my "Filter Profile - Penguin Bio-Wheel 200" where I show how I roll up a small piece of filter poly pad (like a short cigar) and shove it into that half-moon cut out. This causes the water to go through or over the filter cartridge which at least keeps the bio-wheel spinning. Proper filter cartridge maintenance (either changing them or cleaning them... I just clean mine) will keep the water flowing through the cartridge and thus past the bio-wheel so you shouldn't experience a problem. Another thing I've seen is where algae or scum will build up in the little holders on each side of the bio-wheel pins and that adds friction and can slow things down. I use tooth picks to clean out those little holders on each side whenever I do filter maintenance. Last but not least, if it does stop spinning, you need to manually spin it several times to get the entire bio-wheel filter soaked with water again as it will be too heavy on one side when it stops and it doesn't want to start spinning again since it's bottom heavy. Oh yeah.. to answer your question, as long as you don't change both the cartridge and the bio-wheel at the same time, you would probably only experience a mini-cycle. How long has the tank been set up? The nitrifying bacteria grow in the filter cartridge, in the bio-wheel filter and on all other surface areas of the tank/gravel/decorations, etc. The majority do live in the filter media. I would estimate that 40% live on the bio-wheel, 30-40% in the filter cartridge and 20-30% on all of the other surface areas of the tank. So if you change out either the filter cartridge or bio-wheel, you would be trashing 30-40% of your N-bacteria so you would likely have a mini-cycle (small ammonia/nitrite spike) within the next few days so test daily and be prepared to do a PWC as needed to keep the ammonia/nitrite below 0.5ppm... depending on what your pH and temperature is.... read this page for more info on Ammonia Toxicity. _http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html_ (http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html) A pinch of salt per 10G will protect against nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post?postID=hWfEfPhxQow89098CVVGXgolTW8kWg6SaYxBJ40VKnIRqOFvqwPIqxGbw2X3 55reMefULtbFjPDIw57aH2pfsPpYTA) [mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post?postID=hWfEfPhxQow89098CVVGXgol TW8kWg6SaYxBJ40VKnIRqOFvqwPIqxGbw2X355reMefULtbFjPDIw57aH2pfsPpYTA) ] On Behalf Of caroline Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:31 PM To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post?postID=hWfEfPhxQow89098CVVGXgolTW8kWg6SaYxBJ40VKnIRqOFvqwPIqxGbw2X355 reMefULtbFjPDIw57aH2pfsPpYTA) Subject: [AquaticLife] bio rolling filter when the rolling filter has stopped.. do you change it to a new filter..and what about the tank..will it have to recycle? thanks caroline In a message dated 6/21/2008 3:04:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lana.m.gibbons@... writes: I just want to point out that this thread has been hijacked and the original poster still hasn't received a proper response to their question... "my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline" I don't know anything about rolling filters, but I'm sure someone here does - anyone have an answer for caroline? -Lana **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?

Maybe the wool you used was actually wool and not polyester. My previous reply gave you a link to 100% polyester "wool" which should last darn near forever. If you put some good filter media in your filter, it should filter out the decaying stuff but you should probably do a series of PWC's also to replace the water in the tank and then change out the filter media after you are pretty sure you got all the decaying stuff out. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!? Once again I probably didn't use the right terms for you gurus... I just wanted to specify that the "filter media" I'm referring to is the filter wool sans any charcoal, zeolite, etc. I had dumped the contents when I bought it because I have a planted tank. It is only my second filter media (and the first to be run without the charcoal), but the first lasted over 2.5 months and I only replaced it because I was told every 3 months I needed a new one. I had planned to replace the filter wool with a sponge anyway, so if this is a flaw with the wool it is no big deal, it just surprised me. So when I say "new filter media" I'm referring to a sponge (that I have to travel an hour away to pick up - but am going out that way on monday for a dr appt so I'll get it then). The question which still stands (rephraised): how do I get the filter wool fiber out of the tank water? Is it okay to just run the filter with the new sponge to suck it up? Anywhere else I've missed terms or background info, please let me know before attacking. Thanks! -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth

Add some more filter media... like a sponge block... in the reservoir behind the chinky Penguin filter cartridge... or see my blog for "Filter Profile - Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel" and how I modify my cartridge to add a lot more polypad filter media to it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: cheese cloth I've thought of that for my own problem. Debris gets right through a penguin filter cartridge, it will get right through cheese cloth. Actually I tried straining the water through a nylon mesh coffee filter and that didn't remove teh small particles. I am wondering though how much a penguin filter cartridge is really good for. It seems pretty thin and it's wearing out, and of course if you just replace it you lose your biofilter. Is there a way to reinforce it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28395	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

In a message dated 6/21/2008 3:07:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Deenerz@... writes: Lana, She did get replies as she posted the same topic a week earlier. Here is Lenny's post. In looking back to June 5th a similar question was asked and answered. By myself and many others. Not what kind of answer she is looking for as it has been brought up three times now. Previous answers below. "Caroline, If you are referring to a Biowheel filter, never throw them away. Your filter might be clogged or impeded somewhere. Have you tried removing the intake pipe and rinsing it out in the sink? Or the intake strainer? If those are clear the impeller may be clogging. You can remove the impeller and it's housing and rinse it out in the sink. Please make sure you do not drop the impeller down the drain. If the water is flowing fast and the wheel is not rolling or is slow you can take it and make sure the little bearings are still there and do not get lost. You can gently shake the bio wheel in the tank itself and place it back in the cradle it rests in. Mike" **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28396	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

In a message dated 6/21/2008 3:07:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Deenerz@... writes: Lana, She did get replies as she posted the same topic a week earlier. Here is Lenny's post. another response by Carmen Re: [AquaticLife] bio filter If you mean a bio-wheel DO NOT thoroughly clean or toss it! (Never do more than a quick rinse in tank water!) In my experience, if it slows down, the water flow might be impeded, either because the intake is blocked or the filter pad is clogged/dirty. Or if you have hard water, there may be build-up around the peg that seats the biowheel on the housing. Biowheels never need replacement unless they somehow sustain damage... Carmen **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28397	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

In a message dated 6/21/2008 3:07:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Deenerz@... writes: Lana, She did get replies as she posted the same topic a week earlier. Here is Lenny's post. Another reply by Lenny. E: [AquaticLife] bio filter It doesn't have to spin fast to work. As long as it's turning... even at a snails pace, the filter will stay wet and keep the N-bacteria alive and feasting on any ammonia/nitrite in the water. You can lift the bio-wheel out of the little holders and clean the holders in case there is any algae/detritus building up in the holders that might be causing the bio-wheel to spin slower. They are too small for a Q-tip. I just use a tooth pick to kind of make sure there isn't any build up in the holders. Since you have a Bio-Wheel, I do have an article on my blog about my own Bio-Wheel and how I break it down for cleaning, etc. and how I modified the filter cartridge to get rid of the carbon and add additional filter poly pad for more mechanical/biological filtration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28398	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?

Thanks Lenny, It was the standard whisper biobag, which should have been polyester from what I understand. I've been working with a variety of materials (outside of aquarium use) for years and this is the absolute first time I've ever seen polyester come apart like this. Thanks for the links to what you use: the filter pads look a lot more durable than the whisper biobag I had. I was looking at using this http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4136+12736&pcatid=12736, but the cells seem too large so I was thinking of wrapping it with something... those filter pads you posted look like they might do the job - but I dunno if I'd be able to wrap both around it and have it still fit in the in-tank filter (although, the biobag cartridges are always a little on the loose side, so maybe I do have enough room). I guess I'm probably better off ordering this stuff online as I doubt the "local" store has it. Thanks!! I'll work on the PWCs to clear it out after the new filter media arrives. -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Maybe the wool you used was actually wool and not polyester. My previous > reply gave you a link to 100% polyester "wool" which should last darn near > forever. If you put some good filter media in your filter, it should > filter > out the decaying stuff but you should probably do a series of PWC's also to > replace the water in the tank and then change out the filter media after > you > are pretty sure you got all the decaying stuff out. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28399	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

I hadn't realized this was the same poster from before. Thanks for referring back to the pertinent posts - hopefully she gets them this time!! -Lana > Lana, > > She did get replies as she posted the same topic a week earlier. Here is > Lenny's post. > > In looking back to June 5th a similar question was asked and answered. By > myself and many others. Not what kind of answer she is looking for as it > has > been brought up three times now. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28400	From: Sohil Garg	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Determining the Sex of Mollies

I have a pair of mollies. How would I know their sex? Thanks in advance. Sohil [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28401	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?

I just realized the micron filter pad has two different options: 50 or 100? I didn't see which you use mentioned on your blog. Am I understanding correctly that the 100 will filter smaller particles? (I may have that reversed...) Is there any reason I couldn't use one or the other in my whisper in tank filter? Thanks!! -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > those filter pads you posted look like they might do the job - but I dunno > if I'd be able to wrap both around it and have it still fit in the in-tank > filter (although, the biobag cartridges are always a little on the loose > side, so maybe I do have enough room). I guess I'm probably better off > ordering this stuff online as I doubt the "local" store has it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28402	From: Sohil Garg	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Determining the Sex of Mollies

I have a pair of mollies. How would I know their sex? Thanks in advance. Sohil [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28403	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

I see. Well, today's research showed that this is a common problem, and since frequent drastic water changes with gravel siphoning aren't getting it under control, I ordered a eheim sludge extractor and gravel cleaner on sale from Petco. It is a basic battery operated gravel vacuum, but it gets particularly good reviews. I also had a discussion with someone at River City Aquatics, and he suggested that I could change the filter, which has been in place for five or six weeks, or add a layer of polyfilter or fine sponge medium, and we agreed it would be a good idea to add the layer of extra filter medium a week or two before changing the filter. It's a Penguin and has the biowheel. I could eaasily have the filter stirring up the water more, but the fish hate that! I so have a long airstone along half of the back of the tank. It may be keeping the debris away from the power filter. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 1:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter The debris in the gravel is removed by vacuuming, not by the filter. If you want to try to ensure the debris does not fall to the gravel in the first place, then you want more water movement using a stronger filter or a powerhead. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28404	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

Does the under gravel filter really remove the stuff that gets trapped in teh gravel? Because seems like it has a long way to work its way through the gravel to get to it, and unclear that it can actually enter the filter medium. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Unless you have a powerful UGF, your filter system isn't designed to get the stuff out of the gravel. That is done when you do a gravel vacuum during your weekly PWC. If you do have a UGF, then you should have some polyfill or flosspad type filter media which should collect most of the small stuff. The rest gets vacuumed up during the PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28405	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

I have stuff hanging over the outlet to stop the turbulence from teh way the water htis the surface from drving the fish nuts; it necessarily causes the water to fall close to the bottom of the pump. don't know what to do about that. But I could see how much adding a layer of filter media may have slowed the flow of water. I do have an airstone along the rest of the back of the tank which I've noticed causes the water and debris in it to not head toward the filter. Not sure what to do about that either. I don't trust the filter to provide enough air, particularly since the filsh can't seem to live with the turbulence that is specifically part of how the filter is supposed to aerate the tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 2:10 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter This is a situation where cartridge filers are real nice. You can get cartridges of varying porosity to filter out what you want. For instance, you could get a filter rated at 3 microns and everything 3 microns and larger will be filtered out (and eventually, smaller than 3 microns as the filter clogs). Now, I presume you have a hang off the back kind of filter. The problem you are experiencing is probably due to the clogging of the filter media, and water is going around the media without being filtered. You'll need to pull the media out and replace it. Either rinse the current media and re-use that, or use fresh media. Repeat as needed. You may also have a problem in that the filter is not properly circulating the water throughout the tank. If this is the case, the filter may not be sized properly, or the clean water is falling too near the filter intake. The first is easy to resolve, get a properly sized filter. The second can be more problematic. You'll need to devise a method for diverting the outflow to go further away from the outlet. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28406	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

I answered that question! I discussed whether the filter needs to be rinsed out or changed or the inlet may be clogged. I never mentioned that it could also be that there is dirt where the biowheel hub sits in its grooves. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Lana Gibbons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter I just want to point out that this thread has been hijacked and the original poster still hasn't received a proper response to their question... "my roller bio ..is starting to slow down.. do I clean this ...or do I replace this rolling fillter.. thank you so much.. caroline" I don't know anything about rolling filters, but I'm sure someone here does - anyone have an answer for caroline? -Lana

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28407	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth

I think that's a good idea - it's done. And I even finally found good stuff to do it with. Walmart sells bags of rolled polyfil, but River City Aquatics has bulk fine sponge rubber/polyfill type material that is a thicker and slightly finer version of what is already on there. I suppose I could add some polyfil if I need to. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 5:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: cheese cloth Add some more filter media... like a sponge block... in the reservoir behind the chinky Penguin filter cartridge... or see my blog for "Filter Profile - Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel" and how I modify my cartridge to add a lot more polypad filter media to it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: cheese cloth I've thought of that for my own problem. Debris gets right through a penguin filter cartridge, it will get right through cheese cloth. Actually I tried straining the water through a nylon mesh coffee filter and that didn't remove teh small particles. I am wondering though how much a penguin filter cartridge is really good for. It seems pretty thin and it's wearing out, and of course if you just replace it you lose your biofilter. Is there a way to reinforce it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28408	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?

I repeatedly ran into the answre to that in my research in my fish supply catalogs this morning. You put a nylon bag intended to contain your filter media over it. You can get those in the pet departments or online. In fact they have them at Walmart. Now, they appear to sell specific ones for specific brands of filters. I didn't find how to select one for another purpose. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Lana Gibbons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!? The question which still stands (rephraised): how do I get the filter wool fiber out of the tank water? Is it okay to just run the filter with the new sponge to suck it up?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28409	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?

My guess would be that the 50 filters smaller particles than the 100. Where are you looking at this? Maybe I'd like to get some of the finer stuff as well. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Lana Gibbons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!? I just realized the micron filter pad has two different options: 50 or 100? I didn't see which you use mentioned on your blog. Am I understanding correctly that the 100 will filter smaller particles? (I may have that reversed...) Is there any reason I couldn't use one or the other in my whisper in tank filter? Thanks!! -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > those filter pads you posted look like they might do the job - but I dunno > if I'd be able to wrap both around it and have it still fit in the in-tank > filter (although, the biobag cartridges are always a little on the loose > side, so maybe I do have enough room). I guess I'm probably better off > ordering this stuff online as I doubt the "local" store has it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28410	From: joe t	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: trout

Keeping in mind that we are usually dealing with aquariums, makes me wonder.   If you are just starting out with fish, are you sure you mean trout?   I my humble opinion, TROUT IS NOT and aquarium fish. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28411	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2008
Subject: Re: Determining the Sex of Mollies

Quite simple, actually. The males have a modified anal fin that is known as a gonopodium, while females will have a full anal fin. Males also are slimmer and have less deep bodies than the females, and tend to be slightly smaller. This last is not truly definitive until all the mollies are full grown. Though not as noticeable in dark colored mollies as it is in other, related, livebearers, female mollies have what is known as a gravid spot. This is an area near the anus on the body of the female that will darken as the time to give birth arrives, and lightens in color shortly after \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sohil Garg Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 9:08 PM To: A-s-k@yahoogroups.com; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Determining the Sex of Mollies I have a pair of mollies. How would I know their sex? Thanks in advance. Sohil

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28412	From: Vitae	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: STUCK Guppy gonopodium?

Ummmmm...... Is it normal for a guppies male reproductive organ to uh.. get stuck in the up position? My poor male gup has been swimming around with his thingy stuck to the side... it's funny but sad at the same time.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28413	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: new here, looking for water sprite -Ceratopteris

I admit, I'm really only here for one reason. I have heard that water sprite is a fantastic plant to put in an aquarium, fast growing, hard to kill. I have been trying to get some for a while now, the one store that could order it for me pissed me off (long story), and to order it online is cost prohibitive. I am willing to buy some, just not too keen on having to order $30 worth of it and then pay $30 for shipping. I am in Delaware (little place south of Pennsylvania, west of New Jersey, north and east of Maryland). Can anyone help me out? Thanks! Erika (and her aquatic frogs, crayfish, not with the frogs, and guppies)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28414	From: caroline	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

thanks for the tip about turbulence . and of course the tip about the filter.. I just have a small betta in the tank... I will quiet the flow for him... caroline

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28415	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: new here, looking for water sprite -Ceratopteris

Hi Erika, try aquabid.com _http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?liveplantsb&1214182450_ (http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?liveplantsb&1214182450) -MIke In a message dated 6/22/2008 11:25:57 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, emcisme@... writes: admit, I'm really only here for one reason. I have heard that water sprite is a fantastic plant to put in an aquarium, fast growing, hard to kill. I have been trying to get some for a while now, the one store that could order it for me pissed me off (long story), and to order it online is cost prohibitive. I am willing to buy some, just not too keen on having to order $30 worth of it and then pay $30 for shipping. I am in Delaware (little place south of Pennsylvania, west of New Jersey, north and east of Maryland). Can anyone help me out? Thanks! Erika (and her aquatic frogs, crayfish, not with the frogs, and guppies) **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28416	From: bushman_50	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: New to the group ( *Crayfish*?)

Hi , I'm new to the group (just joined a few mins ago.) I was wondering if any you good people had experience with crayfish. I plan on harvesting some to use as "bait" (hope I don't offend with that statement) and also to populate a tank in my living room. My major question is. "how do I keep multiple crayfish in a single tank for extended periods without them playing "last man standing on me". I had some a long time ago in a tank in my apt but my memory is fuzzy. I remember some how getting pretty blue ones after some red ones mated that I bought. I now live in the country and want to try my hand at trapping some from the wild. My grandparents yard is infested with them. Chimneys everywhere and I also assume that there will be some in the local creeks. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28417	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: cheese cloth

Judy, I boiled everything is a high salt solution. Everything... I had another snail free tank that I set up an extra filter and some gravel in to reseed the first tank after boiling everything. I didn't lose any fish and within three days the water parameters were back where they needed to be. Oh, I also scrubbed the tank with a salt solution. It's been about a month and no sign of snails. Hope this helps you... Traci Swatek-Rice Hazmat Technician DMOS5 manufacturing Texas Instruments <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of judy_be Sent: Fri 06/20/08 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cheese cloth I am setting up a new, bigger tank for my corydoras. That's all I have. I've had a snail problem for many years and I hope I can set up the new tank so there will be NO SNAILS. I thought of straining the water from the old tank, at least most of it, through a few layers of cheese cloth. Think that will work? Thanks, Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28418	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group ( *Crayfish*?)

Hi Bushman, I had some in the tank when I was in high school from out of the back yard creek. They did well and would eat and catch fish in the tank when they were not moving around. Like Turtles, they like to be on land as well but my tank was well aerated and they stayed in the water most all the time. I used to feed them little pieces of hot dog but I am sure that is not the best food for them. They did not fight with each other unless there were really too many in the tank. For bait they work but minnows are probably just as good. We once made a cocktail of these things and they tasted like lobster- but it took a lot of them. The female ones can be seen to have the eggs piled under the tail when the time comes- I don't remember actually raising any little ones though- maybe the fish ate them but the crayfish eventually got even. This was back in the mid 70's. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. bushman_50 wrote: > > Hi , I'm new to the group (just joined a few mins ago.) I was > wondering if any you good people had experience with crayfish. I plan > on harvesting some to use as "bait" (hope I don't offend with that > statement) and also to populate a tank in my living room. My major > question is. "how do I keep multiple crayfish in a single tank for > extended periods without them playing "last man standing on me". I > had some a long time ago in a tank in my apt but my memory is fuzzy. > I remember some how getting pretty blue ones after some red ones mated > that I bought. I now live in the country and want to try my hand at > trapping some from the wild. My grandparents yard is infested with > them. Chimneys everywhere and I also assume that there will be some > in the local creeks. Thanks > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28419	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water

How about putting a nice blanky over the lid to make her more comfortable? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cat Fur in Aquarium Water It can clog your impeller. Not too sure about the fish getting ill from the fur. -Mike In a message dated 6/21/2008 9:04:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, maj7787@... writes: Hi everyone....Hi everyone....<WBR>.just wana ask if there' anything abt finding cat furs in the aquarium...you see, my cat likes to sleep on the aquarium cover and due to the small gaps in the cover, her furs get into the water below.Is there any harm done to the fishes? I know cat fur is not clean as cats roam abt everywhere and this is my main concern now....pls let me know if any of you know something abt this matter. ok thanx. Imran **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28420	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?

You may not be able to go with the micron filtration media. I use that in my canister filter systems but they have a lot more power and are closed systems so they "force" the water through the micron polishing pads. I'm not sure an HOB filter or an in-tank filter would work with that type of filter media. The blue/white poly-pad is a dual layer with one having a denser mesh than the other so it does a good job of catching most stuff. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!? I just realized the micron filter pad has two different options: 50 or 100? I didn't see which you use mentioned on your blog. Am I understanding correctly that the 100 will filter smaller particles? (I may have that reversed...) Is there any reason I couldn't use one or the other in my whisper in tank filter? Thanks!! -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@... <mailto:lana.m.gibbons%40gmail.com> > wrote: > those filter pads you posted look like they might do the job - but I dunno > if I'd be able to wrap both around it and have it still fit in the in-tank > filter (although, the biobag cartridges are always a little on the loose > side, so maybe I do have enough room). I guess I'm probably better off > ordering this stuff online as I doubt the "local" store has it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 6/22/2008 7:52 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28421	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: What happens if you use Kent marine pro-clear in a fresh water aquar

I picked up the only thing any of three aquarium stores I was in today had for clearing cloudy aquarium water - Kent Marine pro-clear. I used it in my fresh water aquarium, then I used another dose. Then I noticed that the bottle says "Do not use in freshwater". And that it is perfectly safe for marine fish and won't harm plants. Now, Kent also makes a fresh water pro-clear product, and it says, "Do not use on marine systems". And that it is perfectly safe for fresh water fish and won't harm plants. Both products contain "Deinonized water, polyelectrolytes". Buth work as long chain polymers that attract dirt and debris and form clumps. Both products say very strange things, like to run the aquarium light for atleast two hours after using it. (Why on earth?) It actually looks like they are the same product. The marine product certainly cleared my tank - it made sheets and clumps out of the fine gunk. It works alot better than the aluminum hydrate stuff I was using. What harm could come of accidentally using the marine product in the fresh water aquarium, and what should I do about it? I got some water that it will properly take another couple of hours to get ready for another major water change. I just did one this afternoon before I used the stuff. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28422	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter

That's why I said a "powerful" UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Does the under gravel filter really remove the stuff that gets trapped in teh gravel? Because seems like it has a long way to work its way through the gravel to get to it, and unclear that it can actually enter the filter medium. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Unless you have a powerful UGF, your filter system isn't designed to get the stuff out of the gravel. That is done when you do a gravel vacuum during your weekly PWC. If you do have a UGF, then you should have some polyfill or flosspad type filter media which should collect most of the small stuff. The rest gets vacuumed up during the PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 6/22/2008 7:52 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28423	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: STUCK Guppy gonopodium?

According to the Viagra and Cialis website, it's not a concern unless it lasts for over four hours. LOL Sorry.. I couldn't resist! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vitae Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 2:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] STUCK Guppy gonopodium? Ummmmm...... Is it normal for a guppies male reproductive organ to uh.. get stuck in the up position? My poor male gup has been swimming around with his thingy stuck to the side... it's funny but sad at the same time.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 6/22/2008 7:52 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28424	From: harry perry	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny

What is the name of the fish on the home page?. Thanks. Harry Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario A tropical fish group. Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools. Napoleon --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:13 PM That's why I said a "powerful" UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Does the under gravel filter really remove the stuff that gets trapped in teh gravel? Because seems like it has a long way to work its way through the gravel to get to it, and unclear that it can actually enter the filter medium. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Unless you have a powerful UGF, your filter system isn't designed to get the stuff out of the gravel. That is done when you do a gravel vacuum during your weekly PWC. If you do have a UGF, then you should have some polyfill or flosspad type filter media which should collect most of the small stuff. The rest gets vacuumed up during the PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 6/22/2008 7:52 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28425	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny

Its name is "Fishie"... at least that's what it responds to at feeding time. Here fishie, fishie, fishie! ;-) As far as the species name... not sure.. I'm guessing a variant of the sailfin molly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter/Lenny What is the name of the fish on the home page?. Thanks. Harry Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario A tropical fish group. Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools. Napoleon --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:13 PM That's why I said a "powerful" UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Does the under gravel filter really remove the stuff that gets trapped in teh gravel? Because seems like it has a long way to work its way through the gravel to get to it, and unclear that it can actually enter the filter medium. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Unless you have a powerful UGF, your filter system isn't designed to get the stuff out of the gravel. That is done when you do a gravel vacuum during your weekly PWC. If you do have a UGF, then you should have some polyfill or flosspad type filter media which should collect most of the small stuff. The rest gets vacuumed up during the PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 6/22/2008 7:52 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28426	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?

I was thinking that it wouldn't be enough power for one, but it didn't dawn on me that it might not be enough power for either! I'll just grab the poly-pad and foam: I'm sure it'll be MUCH better than the biobag that I was using! Thanks so much, -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:09 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > You may not be able to go with the micron filtration media. I use that in > my canister filter systems but they have a lot more power and are closed > systems so they "force" the water through the micron polishing pads. I'm > not sure an HOB filter or an in-tank filter would work with that type of > filter media. The blue/white poly-pad is a dual layer with one having a > denser mesh than the other so it does a good job of catching most stuff. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28427	From: maj7787	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water

To all those who advised me on this matter....a million thanx,i might go ahead and shave my cat bald, hehe. I did put a pillow on the cover and so far it seems to deter her from jumping onto the cover,hope she doesnt find another way to jump.Well, cats are curious ,right? I'm happy that she loves looking at the fish.ok thanx again.Imran.--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > How about putting a nice blanky over the lid to make her more comfortable? > > Yours, > Dora Smith

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28428	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/22/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny

Harry, I'll be darned if that isn't Herman! Start looking through your marine literature. It is a marine fish, not freshwater. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter/Lenny What is the name of the fish on the home page?. Thanks. Harry Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario A tropical fish group. Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools. Napoleon --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:13 PM That's why I said a "powerful" UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Does the under gravel filter really remove the stuff that gets trapped in teh gravel? Because seems like it has a long way to work its way through the gravel to get to it, and unclear that it can actually enter the filter medium. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Unless you have a powerful UGF, your filter system isn't designed to get the stuff out of the gravel. That is done when you do a gravel vacuum during your weekly PWC. If you do have a UGF, then you should have some polyfill or flosspad type filter media which should collect most of the small stuff. The rest gets vacuumed up during the PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 6/22/2008 7:52 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28429	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny

It sure is purty. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 10:31 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter/Lenny Harry, I'll be darned if that isn't Herman! Start looking through your marine literature. It is a marine fish, not freshwater. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter/Lenny What is the name of the fish on the home page?. Thanks. Harry Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario A tropical fish group. Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools. Napoleon --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:13 PM That's why I said a "powerful" UGF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Does the under gravel filter really remove the stuff that gets trapped in teh gravel? Because seems like it has a long way to work its way through the gravel to get to it, and unclear that it can actually enter the filter medium. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Unless you have a powerful UGF, your filter system isn't designed to get the stuff out of the gravel. That is done when you do a gravel vacuum during your weekly PWC. If you do have a UGF, then you should have some polyfill or flosspad type filter media which should collect most of the small stuff. The rest gets vacuumed up during the PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 6/22/2008 7:52 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 6/22/2008 7:52 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28430	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny

So, Herman it is! I'm glad Steve at least narrowed it down a bit, as I've never seen this fish before. Not wanting to appear dumb, I did not want to be the first to venture a guess. If I were pressed for an answer, I would have guessed it was a new import of a Lake Tanganyika Cichlid as it has features of that diverse group -- and was actually what I thought it was (although not having a clue as to its possible species). It does look similar to some Neolamprologus, also having long ventrals of Ophthalmochromis and Cunningtonia. Well, sharing these similarities with distantly related marine fish, at least it may be reasonable to assume its in the Order Perciformes even if a species name can't be I.D.'d. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > What is the name of the fish on the home page?. Thanks. > > Harry > > Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario > > A tropical fish group. > > > > Impossible is a word to be found only > > in the dictionary of fools. Napoleon > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:13 PM > > That's why I said a "powerful" UGF. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter > > Does the under gravel filter really remove the stuff that gets trapped in > teh gravel? Because seems like it has a long way to work its way through > the gravel to get to it, and unclear that it can actually enter the filter > medium. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter > > > Unless you have a powerful UGF, your filter system isn't designed to get > the > stuff out of the gravel. That is done when you do a gravel vacuum during > your weekly PWC. If you do have a UGF, then you should have some polyfill > or flosspad type filter media which should collect most of the small stuff. > The rest gets vacuumed up during the PWC's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter > > Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to > filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick > cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 6/22/2008 > 7:52 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28431	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: new here, looking for water sprite -Ceratopteris

Thanks Mike! That looks very promising, much appreciated (especially by the frogs)! erika --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Hi Erika, > > try aquabid.com > > _http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi? liveplantsb&1214182450_ > (http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi? liveplantsb&1214182450) > > -MIke >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28432	From: Mark Hough	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water

Please note: you do want some type of ventilation... The pillow doesn't completely cover the tank does it? Also, if the cover has a light on it that you use, I would be very careful about putting a pillow over it. Just my 2 cents... On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 11:01 PM, maj7787 <maj7787@...> wrote: > To all those who advised me on this matter....a million thanx,i > might go ahead and shave my cat bald, hehe. I did put a pillow on > the cover and so far it seems to deter her from jumping onto the > cover,hope she doesnt find another way to jump.Well, cats are > curious ,right? I'm happy that she loves looking at the fish.ok > thanx again.Imran.--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" > > <tiggernut24@...> wrote: >> >> How about putting a nice blanky over the lid to make her more > comfortable? >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28433	From: Mark Hough	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: STUCK Guppy gonopodium?

Finally... a topic you're experienced in... LOL Sorry Lenny - I couldn't resist either... On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > According to the Viagra and Cialis website, it's not a concern unless it > lasts for over four hours. LOL > > Sorry.. I couldn't resist! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28434	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water

My huge male tabby likes to sleep on top of my platy tank (he likes the warmth from the light). I hadn't even thought about his hair getting into the tank, but I guess it must.(It's everywhere else!) But I don't see that it would be a problem; the fish aren't going to eat it. I guess it's possible it could clog the filter intake, but you'd notice if that was happening. I wouldn't worry about it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "maj7787" <maj7787@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone.....just wana ask if there's anyone here who knows > anything abt finding cat furs in the aquarium...you see, my cat likes > to sleep on the aquarium cover and due to the small gaps in the cover, > her furs get into the water below.Is there any harm done to the > fishes? I know cat fur is not clean as cats roam abt everywhere and > this is my main concern now....pls let me know if any of you know > something abt this matter. > ok thanx. > Imran >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28435	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water

My cat used to love to sleep on top of the aquarium. Until I left the hood off one day :) That was a very pissed off and humiliated cat. She is not real big on tank tap dancing anymore or cat napping on them. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Mark Hough <mhough6229@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 2:28 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Cat Fur in Aquarium Water Please note: you do want some type of ventilation... The pillow doesn't completely cover the tank does it? Also, if the cover has a light on it that you use, I would be very careful about putting a pillow over it. Just my 2 cents... On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 11:01 PM, maj7787 <maj7787@...> wrote: > To all those who advised me on this matter....a million thanx,i > might go ahead and shave my cat bald, hehe. I did put a pillow on > the cover and so far it seems to deter her from jumping onto the > cover,hope she doesnt find another way to jump.Well, cats are > curious ,right? I'm happy that she loves looking at the fish.ok > thanx again.Imran.--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" > > <tiggernut24@...> wrote: >> >> How about putting a nice blanky over the lid to make her more > comfortable? >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28436	From: Paula Brown	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Filter Intake Qusetion

All of my tanks are plagued with duck weed so my filter intake tends to get full of it. When I go to clean it, of course all the stuff it trapped just falls right off the filter because as soon as I remove it from the HOB, it just floats right off. Am I missing something here? I tried putting it in a plastic cup but as soon as I released it, the stuff just floated out of the cup. Maybe I need to wrap one of those nylon bags around it? Is that the answer? Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28437	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: What happens if you use Kent marine pro-clear in a fresh water a

For whoever's interested, the company said that adding the marine product to fresh water would at worst fail to work. However, the product that is intended for fresh water contains an ingredient that can kill many forms of marine life. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] What happens if you use Kent marine pro-clear in a fresh water aquarium? I picked up the only thing any of three aquarium stores I was in today had for clearing cloudy aquarium water - Kent Marine pro-clear. I used it in my fresh water aquarium, then I used another dose. Then I noticed that the bottle says "Do not use in freshwater". And that it is perfectly safe for marine fish and won't harm plants. Now, Kent also makes a fresh water pro-clear product, and it says, "Do not use on marine systems". And that it is perfectly safe for fresh water fish and won't harm plants. Both products contain "Deinonized water, polyelectrolytes". Buth work as long chain polymers that attract dirt and debris and form clumps. Both products say very strange things, like to run the aquarium light for atleast two hours after using it. (Why on earth?) It actually looks like they are the same product. The marine product certainly cleared my tank - it made sheets and clumps out of the fine gunk. It works alot better than the aluminum hydrate stuff I was using. What harm could come of accidentally using the marine product in the fresh water aquarium, and what should I do about it? I got some water that it will properly take another couple of hours to get ready for another major water change. I just did one this afternoon before I used the stuff. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 6/22/2008 7:52 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28438	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Qusetion

Duckweed is a surface (floating) plant. Are you keeping your water level high enough or maybe add an extension to the filter intake so it's deeper in the tank. If you want to limit the amount of duckweed, change the direction of your outflow so it causes a lot more surface agitation or add a small powerhead to spray the duckweed into one end of the tank. Duckweed doesn't like surface agitation. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 5:34 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter Intake Qusetion All of my tanks are plagued with duck weed so my filter intake tends to get full of it. When I go to clean it, of course all the stuff it trapped just falls right off the filter because as soon as I remove it from the HOB, it just floats right off. Am I missing something here? I tried putting it in a plastic cup but as soon as I released it, the stuff just floated out of the cup. Maybe I need to wrap one of those nylon bags around it? Is that the answer? Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1515 - Release Date: 6/23/2008 7:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28439	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Re: What happens if you use Kent marine pro-clear in a fresh water a

Or better yet.. don't use them kinds of chemicals in your tanks. 99% of the chemicals out there that they sell to unsuspecting fish keepers simply are not needed. The main things that are needed is frequent 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and proper filter maintenance... those three things cure or prevent almost everything that can go wrong in a tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 6:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What happens if you use Kent marine pro-clear in a fresh water aquarium? For whoever's interested, the company said that adding the marine product to fresh water would at worst fail to work. However, the product that is intended for fresh water contains an ingredient that can kill many forms of marine life. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] What happens if you use Kent marine pro-clear in a fresh water aquarium? I picked up the only thing any of three aquarium stores I was in today had for clearing cloudy aquarium water - Kent Marine pro-clear. I used it in my fresh water aquarium, then I used another dose. Then I noticed that the bottle says "Do not use in freshwater". And that it is perfectly safe for marine fish and won't harm plants. Now, Kent also makes a fresh water pro-clear product, and it says, "Do not use on marine systems". And that it is perfectly safe for fresh water fish and won't harm plants. Both products contain "Deinonized water, polyelectrolytes". Buth work as long chain polymers that attract dirt and debris and form clumps. Both products say very strange things, like to run the aquarium light for atleast two hours after using it. (Why on earth?) It actually looks like they are the same product. The marine product certainly cleared my tank - it made sheets and clumps out of the fine gunk. It works alot better than the aluminum hydrate stuff I was using. What harm could come of accidentally using the marine product in the fresh water aquarium, and what should I do about it? I got some water that it will properly take another couple of hours to get ready for another major water change. I just did one this afternoon before I used the stuff. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1515 - Release Date: 6/23/2008 7:16 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28440	From: maj7787	Date: 6/23/2008
Subject: Feeding time

Hi everyone.....i feed my fish twice a day, they eat quite a lot. the problem is i dont know when to stop feeding as they seem hungry most of the time, read some where that 20 mins of feeding should suffice but is that a reliable way to determine the quantity to be fed?I have 3 silver dollars and 5 corys in a 65 gallon tank. Is it ok to feed them different food at the same feeding time,like pellets and blood worms at one go? Which is better,feeding silver dollars with the aquarium light on or off? Is there anyone who knows an easy way of sexing the silver dollars,i'm just not good at it, i'm a little confused. ok thanx. Imran.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28441	From: Al Ponce	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Corydoras Hadrosus Breeding

Hi everyone. I'm a new member and I'm attempting to get my Corydoras to start breeding. I don't want to spend a lot of money getting fancy equipment, or chemicals. The only method I saw on the internet was doing a 20% water change everyday. These Cory's are a bit rare to find but I have 1 female and 3 males that should be viable. If anyone has any insight please post. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28442	From: Mark Hough	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding time

You can feed them differnet foods at the same time, but 20 minutes is way too long. Keep in mind that a fish's stomach is about 1/2 the size of his eye. Feeding your fish too much can cause poor water quality.... Mark On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 12:57 AM, maj7787 <maj7787@...> wrote: > Hi everyone.....i feed my fish twice a day, they eat quite a lot. the > problem is i dont know when to stop feeding as they seem hungry most > of the time, read some where that 20 mins of feeding should suffice > but is that a reliable way to determine the quantity to be fed?I have > 3 silver dollars and 5 corys in a 65 gallon tank. Is it ok to feed > them different food at the same feeding time,like pellets and blood > worms at one go? Which is better,feeding silver dollars with the > aquarium light on or off? Is there anyone who knows an easy way of > sexing the silver dollars,i'm just not good at it, i'm a little > confused. > ok thanx. > Imran. > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28443	From: Mark Hough	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: What happens if you use Kent marine pro-clear in a fresh water a

Well said!!! On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 2:14 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Or better yet.. don't use them kinds of chemicals in your tanks. 99% of the > chemicals out there that they sell to unsuspecting fish keepers simply are > not needed. > > The main things that are needed is frequent 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > proper filter maintenance... those three things cure or prevent almost > everything that can go wrong in a tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28444	From: JFazio	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: cloudy eye

I've had two angels for about two wks. They seemed to be getting better after a bout of fungus. Now, just minutes after putting them into big tank, one's right eye is cloudy looking. Should I whip him out and put him back in quarantine or is it already too late? Shoot. Jeannie Fazio <http://www.thedachshundnetwork.com/index.php>The Dachshund Network Bulletin Board </a>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28445	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: Corydoras Hadrosus Breeding

Should this be Corydoras HaBrosus? I did a quick Google and nothing was found on Corydoras HaDrosus and Google suggested the B instead of the D. The below links are from reliable web sources and each has some info on breeding, etc. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras_habrosus.html http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=482 http://www.scotcat.com/factsheets/corydoras_habrosus.html http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8947 http://www.fishbase.com/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=46083 (check out Reproduction in the More Info section at the bottom) Here's an article called "Breeding Corydoras Habrosus" http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/shanesworld.php?article_id=235 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Ponce Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 4:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Corydoras Hadrosus Breeding Hi everyone. I'm a new member and I'm attempting to get my Corydoras to start breeding. I don't want to spend a lot of money getting fancy equipment, or chemicals. The only method I saw on the internet was doing a 20% water change everyday. These Cory's are a bit rare to find but I have 1 female and 3 males that should be viable. If anyone has any insight please post. Thanks. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1516 - Release Date: 6/24/2008 7:53 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28446	From: thee_raven2006	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding time

I have several different semi-agressive fish in a 60 gal. tank that eat 3-4 different kinds of food depending on the day. I know everyone feeds their fish differently but for mine we use sinking pellets for the noc fish and catfish, rainbows and balas, wafers for the pleco, brine shrimp for the crab, and flakes for the rest. We only feed for approximately 3-5 minutes because by that time there's enough food in the tank that even if they're still eating like cows they'll pick off whatever's leftover and still get full without turning the aquarium water into pure algae. They also get blood worms as a treat about twice a week and once in awhile frozen peas. I have 2 angels that would eat non-stop if I let them so the frozen peas are good things to float in the water for them to nibble on then we take them out after a day. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "maj7787" <maj7787@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone.....i feed my fish twice a day, they eat quite a lot. the > problem is i dont know when to stop feeding as they seem hungry most > of the time, read some where that 20 mins of feeding should suffice > but is that a reliable way to determine the quantity to be fed?I have > 3 silver dollars and 5 corys in a 65 gallon tank. Is it ok to feed > them different food at the same feeding time,like pellets and blood > worms at one go? Which is better,feeding silver dollars with the > aquarium light on or off? Is there anyone who knows an easy way of > sexing the silver dollars,i'm just not good at it, i'm a little > confused. > ok thanx. > Imran. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28447	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: Corydoras Hadrosus Breeding

Let me know if you find anything useful. I have these guys in a heavily planted aquarium with pygmaeus and Neocaridina sp. The only thing I've found is adding cold water during pwc. Kate --- On Tue, 6/24/08, Al Ponce <afp360@...> wrote: From: Al Ponce <afp360@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Corydoras Hadrosus Breeding To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 3:34 AM Hi everyone. I'm a new member and I'm attempting to get my Corydoras to start breeding. I don't want to spend a lot of money getting fancy equipment, or chemicals. The only method I saw on the internet was doing a 20% water change everyday. These Cory's are a bit rare to find but I have 1 female and 3 males that should be viable. If anyone has any insight please post. Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28448	From: Paula Brown	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: AHA - The Duckweed Light Came On!

Lenny wrote: "Duckweed doesn't like surface agitation." AHA! I didn't know that! A few weeks ago my Whisper HOB on my 29 gallon died after a series of my power going out for a few minutes each time. I added a large Penguin HOB with Biowheel to it. I was worried about the increased surface agitation but noticed on my last PWC that my duckweed is disappearing at an alarming rate. I couldn't figure out why but now I know!! We also added some of my excess duckweed to the outdoor pond and assumed that the goldfish were eating it (though they didn't last year) because it was disappearing. But Rick added a larger filter to the pond so I am guessing the surface agitation thing is the answer. Looks like I need to add more surface agitation to my 10 gallon Betta/WCM tank because the duckweed has taken over that tank! Thanks! Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28449	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: AHA - The Duckweed Light Came On!

Hi Paula, Do you have a surge protector on that new filter? I wonder if there was a power surge in your home that may have done damage to the old filter as well as other electrical components in your home. -Mike AHA! I didn't know that! A few weeks ago my Whisper HOB on my 29 gallon died after a series of my power going out for a few minutes each time. -----Original Message----- From: Paula Brown <paulabrown4480@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 3:04 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] AHA - The Duckweed Light Came On! Lenny wrote: "Duckweed doesn't like surface agitation." AHA! I didn't know that! A few weeks ago my Whisper HOB on my 29 gallon died after a series of my power going out for a few minutes each time. I added a large Penguin HOB with Biowheel to it. I was worried about the increased surface agitation but noticed on my last PWC that my duckweed is disappearing at an alarming rate. I couldn't figure out why but now I know!! We also added some of my excess duckweed to the outdoor pond and assumed that the goldfish were eating it (though they didn't last year) because it was disappearing. But Rick added a larger filter to the pond so I am guessing the surface agitation thing is the answer. Looks like I need to add more surface agitation to my 10 gallon Betta/WCM tank because the duckweed has taken over that tank! Thanks! Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28450	From: maj7787	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding time

Thanx for all the good ideas given, looks like i've been feeding them too much ,their stomachs always bulge like balloons yet they still go on picking food from the bottom.I'm cutting down the feeding time and also reducing the amount of blood worms.Like they say, a hungry fish is a healthy fish.--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "thee_raven2006" <thee_raven2006@...> wrote: > > I have several different semi-agressive fish in a 60 gal. tank that eat > 3-4 different kinds of food depending on the day. I know everyone > feeds their fish differently but for mine we use sinking pellets for > the noc fish and catfish, rainbows and balas, wafers for the pleco, > brine shrimp for the crab, and flakes for the rest. We only feed for > approximately 3-5 minutes because by that time there's enough food in > the tank that even if they're still eating like cows they'll pick off > whatever's leftover and still get full without turning the aquarium > water into pure algae. They also get blood worms as a treat about > twice a week and once in awhile frozen peas. I have 2 angels that > would eat non-stop if I let them so the frozen peas are good things to > float in the water for them to nibble on then we take them out after a > day. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "maj7787" <maj7787@> wrote: > > > > Hi everyone.....i feed my fish twice a day, they eat quite a lot. the > > problem is i dont know when to stop feeding as they seem hungry most > > of the time, read some where that 20 mins of feeding should suffice > > but is that a reliable way to determine the quantity to be fed?I have > > 3 silver dollars and 5 corys in a 65 gallon tank. Is it ok to feed > > them different food at the same feeding time,like pellets and blood > > worms at one go? Which is better,feeding silver dollars with the > > aquarium light on or off? Is there anyone who knows an easy way of > > sexing the silver dollars,i'm just not good at it, i'm a little > > confused. > > ok thanx. > > Imran. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28451	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny

Ray, I thought it may be a cichlid also, until I looked at the background. That is definitely a soft coral of some sort in the background, hence, Herman is a marine fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter/Lenny So, Herman it is! I'm glad Steve at least narrowed it down a bit, as I've never seen this fish before. Not wanting to appear dumb, I did not want to be the first to venture a guess. If I were pressed for an answer, I would have guessed it was a new import of a Lake Tanganyika Cichlid as it has features of that diverse group -- and was actually what I thought it was (although not having a clue as to its possible species). It does look similar to some Neolamprologus, also having long ventrals of Ophthalmochromis and Cunningtonia. Well, sharing these similarities with distantly related marine fish, at least it may be reasonable to assume its in the Order Perciformes even if a species name can't be I.D.'d. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > What is the name of the fish on the home page?. Thanks. > > Harry > > Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario > > A tropical fish group. > > > > Impossible is a word to be found only > > in the dictionary of fools. Napoleon > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:13 PM > > That's why I said a "powerful" UGF. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter > > Does the under gravel filter really remove the stuff that gets trapped in > teh gravel? Because seems like it has a long way to work its way through > the gravel to get to it, and unclear that it can actually enter the filter > medium. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter > > > Unless you have a powerful UGF, your filter system isn't designed to get > the > stuff out of the gravel. That is done when you do a gravel vacuum during > your weekly PWC. If you do have a UGF, then you should have some polyfill > or flosspad type filter media which should collect most of the small stuff. > The rest gets vacuumed up during the PWC's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter > > Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power filter to > filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a thick > cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing it. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 6/22/2008 > 7:52 AM > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28452	From: maj7787	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Fish lice

Hi, i have a pond with koi and plecos,recently i noticed some fish lice but the delay in taking any action caused me the lives of 7 koi.I cleaned the pond,changed the water, and so far all is good ,it has been roughly a week now.Is it safe to assume that there isnt anymore lice or its eggs in the pond.The reason is i would like to transfer a pleco from the pond into one of my tanks.Whats the best way to get rid of the lice without harming any of the fish?How long do you think i should observe them before being able to safely transfer the pleco into my tank? ok. thanx. Imran.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28453	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2008
Subject: Re: AHA - The Duckweed Light Came On!

Or better yet... get a UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply)... the kind used for computers. It will condition the power so your filter pump doesn't feel the spikes, dips and surges but it will also run your filter for an hour or so in the event of a power outage. A small 500-750mW UPS can be found on sale for $30-40. The APC brand that I had/have were designed to run a computer system for 15-30 minutes during a power outage. You should also have one of these for each computer system. I even have one on my entertainment center so I don't have to reset all the clocks, etc. on my TV, VCR's, etc., each time there is a power surge/outage. UPS helped save my fish tanks during post-Katrina times down here when I went 14 days with no power. Of course, they didn't last the entire 14 days but I would recharge the UPS every night or so on my friends car inverter (I now have my own). Then during the next day, I'd run the filters for a minute or two every hour or if I didn't have UPS power, I'd manually pour water through the filters so that the filters wouldn't become stagnant and it would keep some of the N-bacteria alive. I recently picked up two HUGE UPS' (2,000mW) for free on Craigslist and the replacement batteries (two 6-volt in series) would have cost over $100.00 so I bought two small $29.00 12-volt car batteries and hooked one up inside each unit and they work fine and seem like they should last for several hours compared to my much smaller UPS' that ran the filters for an hour during a power outage. I need to test one of them soon before hurricane season kicks in full time, just to see how much time I have on these new UPS'. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] AHA - The Duckweed Light Came On! Hi Paula, Do you have a surge protector on that new filter? I wonder if there was a power surge in your home that may have done damage to the old filter as well as other electrical components in your home. -Mike AHA! I didn't know that! A few weeks ago my Whisper HOB on my 29 gallon died after a series of my power going out for a few minutes each time. -----Original Message----- From: Paula Brown <paulabrown4480@... <mailto:paulabrown4480%40sbcglobal.net> > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 3:04 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] AHA - The Duckweed Light Came On! Lenny wrote: "Duckweed doesn't like surface agitation." AHA! I didn't know that! A few weeks ago my Whisper HOB on my 29 gallon died after a series of my power going out for a few minutes each time. I added a large Penguin HOB with Biowheel to it. I was worried about the increased surface agitation but noticed on my last PWC that my duckweed is disappearing at an alarming rate. I couldn't figure out why but now I know!! We also added some of my excess duckweed to the outdoor pond and assumed that the goldfish were eating it (though they didn't last year) because it was disappearing. But Rick added a larger filter to the pond so I am guessing the surface agitation thing is the answer. Looks like I need to add more surface agitation to my 10 gallon Betta/WCM tank because the duckweed has taken over that tank! Thanks! Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1516 - Release Date: 6/24/2008 7:53 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28454	From: Mark Hough	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny

Are you sure that's not a background on the tank??? Just a thought.... Mark On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > Ray, > > I thought it may be a cichlid also, until I looked at the background. > That is definitely a soft coral of some sort in the background, hence, > Herman is a marine fish. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter/Lenny > > So, Herman it is! I'm glad Steve at least narrowed it down a bit, as > I've never seen this fish before. Not wanting to appear dumb, I did > not want to be the first to venture a guess. If I were pressed for > an answer, I would have guessed it was a new import of a Lake > Tanganyika Cichlid as it has features of that diverse group -- and > was actually what I thought it was (although not having a clue as to > its possible species). It does look similar to some Neolamprologus, > also having long ventrals of Ophthalmochromis and Cunningtonia. > Well, sharing these similarities with distantly related marine fish, > at least it may be reasonable to assume its in the Order Perciformes > even if a species name can't be I.D.'d. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > wrote: >> >> What is the name of the fish on the home page?. Thanks. >> >> Harry >> >> Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario >> >> A tropical fish group. >> >> >> >> Impossible is a word to be found only >> >> in the dictionary of fools. Napoleon >> >> --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: >> From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:13 PM >> >> That's why I said a "powerful" UGF. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:38 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter >> >> Does the under gravel filter really remove the stuff that gets > trapped in >> teh gravel? Because seems like it has a long way to work its way > through >> the gravel to get to it, and unclear that it can actually enter the > filter >> medium. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:53 PM >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter >> >> >> Unless you have a powerful UGF, your filter system isn't designed > to get >> the >> stuff out of the gravel. That is done when you do a gravel vacuum > during >> your weekly PWC. If you do have a UGF, then you should have some > polyfill >> or flosspad type filter media which should collect most of the > small stuff. >> The rest gets vacuumed up during the PWC's. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:51 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter >> >> Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power > filter to >> filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a > thick >> cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing > it. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: > 6/22/2008 >> 7:52 AM >> >> > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28455	From: Duriel Krugaire	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Fish Tanks Still available in Indy

Hi, I have a couple of tanks for someone interested in enjoying fish. I had the tanks setup with undergravel filters & chilods for years, but I am moving to AZ. If anyone local is interested in a ($50) 55gal round front & ($40)45 gallon 3' wide, with stands & all the fixings, please email me.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28456	From: Veronica	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Tanks Still available in Indy

I'm interested in them.  Where in Indy do you live? Veronica   We have war when at least one of the parties to a conflict wants something more than it wants peace. Jeane J. Kirkpatrick   --- On Wed, 6/25/08, Duriel Krugaire <dlkruger2000@...> wrote: From: Duriel Krugaire <dlkruger2000@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Tanks Still available in Indy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 1:43 PM Hi, I have a couple of tanks for someone interested in enjoying fish. I had the tanks setup with undergravel filters & chilods for years, but I am moving to AZ. If anyone local is interested in a ($50) 55gal round front & ($40)45 gallon 3' wide, with stands & all the fixings, please email me. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28457	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: AHA - The Duckweed Light Came On!

So if I set my filter up to agitate the surface of the water I can reduce the amount of duck weeed I have? Does anyone know if the water surface agitation will drive my frogs insane? I actually want the duck weed gone, don't know what I was thinking, but will wait until we move to knock the tank down and thoroughly rinse the duck weed off of all the surfaces. Erika DE,USA, clearly sticking around past receiving her answer:) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <paulabrown4480@...> wrote: > > Lenny wrote: "Duckweed doesn't like surface agitation." > > AHA! I didn't know that! A few weeks ago my Whisper HOB on my 29 gallon died after a series of my power going out for a few minutes each time. I added a large Penguin HOB with Biowheel to it. I was worried about the increased surface agitation but noticed on my last PWC that my duckweed is disappearing at an alarming rate. I couldn't figure out why but now I know!! > > We also added some of my excess duckweed to the outdoor pond and assumed that the goldfish were eating it (though they didn't last year) because it was disappearing. But Rick added a larger filter to the pond so I am guessing the surface agitation thing is the answer. > > Looks like I need to add more surface agitation to my 10 gallon Betta/WCM tank because the duckweed has taken over that tank! > > Thanks! > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28458	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Tanks Still available in Indy

Indy as in indiana? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Duriel Krugaire" <dlkruger2000@...> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:43:31 To:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Tanks Still available in Indy Hi, I have a couple of tanks for someone interested in enjoying fish. I had the tanks setup with undergravel filters & chilods for years, but I am moving to AZ. If anyone local is interested in a ($50) 55gal round front & ($40)45 gallon 3' wide, with stands & all the fixings, please email me.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28459	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding time

LOL, tropical fish are biologically programmed to act hungry all of the time. Just feed as much as they can eat in a couple of minutes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: maj7787 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding time Hi everyone.....i feed my fish twice a day, they eat quite a lot. the problem is i dont know when to stop feeding as they seem hungry most of the time, read some where that 20 mins of feeding should suffice but is that a reliable way to determine the quantity to be fed?I have 3 silver dollars and 5 corys in a 65 gallon tank. Is it ok to feed them different food at the same feeding time,like pellets and blood worms at one go? Which is better,feeding silver dollars with the aquarium light on or off? Is there anyone who knows an easy way of sexing the silver dollars,i'm just not good at it, i'm a little confused. ok thanx. Imran. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1514 - Release Date: 6/23/2008 7:17 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28460	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Tanks Still available in Indy

Need your e-mail address to e-mail you; only your name displays. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Duriel Krugaire To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:43 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Tanks Still available in Indy Hi, I have a couple of tanks for someone interested in enjoying fish. I had the tanks setup with undergravel filters & chilods for years, but I am moving to AZ. If anyone local is interested in a ($50) 55gal round front & ($40)45 gallon 3' wide, with stands & all the fixings, please email me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1518 - Release Date: 6/25/2008 9:46 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28461	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/25/2008
Subject: Re: bio filter/Lenny

Looking at the photo again, I am sure it is not a background, but in the tank with the fish. There is also what looks like a piece of hard coral in front of it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hough Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 9:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter/Lenny Are you sure that's not a background on the tank??? Just a thought.... Mark On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > Ray, > > I thought it may be a cichlid also, until I looked at the background. > That is definitely a soft coral of some sort in the background, hence, > Herman is a marine fish. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter/Lenny > > So, Herman it is! I'm glad Steve at least narrowed it down a bit, as > I've never seen this fish before. Not wanting to appear dumb, I did > not want to be the first to venture a guess. If I were pressed for > an answer, I would have guessed it was a new import of a Lake > Tanganyika Cichlid as it has features of that diverse group -- and > was actually what I thought it was (although not having a clue as to > its possible species). It does look similar to some Neolamprologus, > also having long ventrals of Ophthalmochromis and Cunningtonia. > Well, sharing these similarities with distantly related marine fish, > at least it may be reasonable to assume its in the Order Perciformes > even if a species name can't be I.D.'d. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > wrote: >> >> What is the name of the fish on the home page?. Thanks. >> >> Harry >> >> Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario >> >> A tropical fish group. >> >> >> >> Impossible is a word to be found only >> >> in the dictionary of fools. Napoleon >> >> --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: >> From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:13 PM >> >> That's why I said a "powerful" UGF. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:38 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter >> >> Does the under gravel filter really remove the stuff that gets > trapped in >> teh gravel? Because seems like it has a long way to work its way > through >> the gravel to get to it, and unclear that it can actually enter the > filter >> medium. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:53 PM >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter >> >> >> Unless you have a powerful UGF, your filter system isn't designed > to get >> the >> stuff out of the gravel. That is done when you do a gravel vacuum > during >> your weekly PWC. If you do have a UGF, then you should have some > polyfill >> or flosspad type filter media which should collect most of the > small stuff. >> The rest gets vacuumed up during the PWC's. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:51 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bio filter >> >> Is there a way to put a fine sleeve or finer filter in the power > filter to >> filter out the fine debris? My gravel is full of debris that maes a > thick >> cloud every time I change the water, and hte filter isn't removing > it. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: > 6/22/2008 >> 7:52 AM >> >> > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28462	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Aquarium Vacuums

Hey guys: Was just wondering what your thoughts/opinions of aquarium vacuums. I know that there is a lot of food and other debris building up on the floor of the tank. I have a 1.5 gallon Tetra tank and was wondering if it was worth the $10 or not. Thanks! Rob -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28463	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Vacuums

You absolutely have to vacuum the gravel/bottom of a tank or the detritus will become home to bad bacteria which will eventually cause harm to your fish. For that small of a tank, you could just use a piece of water-safe hose as the siphon vacuum so it shouldn't cost more than a couple of dollars. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; Betta_Crazy@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Vacuums Hey guys: Was just wondering what your thoughts/opinions of aquarium vacuums. I know that there is a lot of food and other debris building up on the floor of the tank. I have a 1.5 gallon Tetra tank and was wondering if it was worth the $10 or not. Thanks! Rob No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1521 - Release Date: 6/26/2008 11:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28464	From: Black Revenge	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Help Me...!!!

I have a lot of fish.   But, 2 days ago, some of my fish died..!!!   I can't believe that...!!   I don't know why it can happend. __________________________________________________________ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28465	From: Sohil Garg	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: Help Me...!!!

Hey You might wanna add more information about the type of tank (fresh/salt water), size and for how long did you have before it happened...the more information you provide, better it helps in identifying the solution. On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Black Revenge <black_revenge46@...> wrote: > > > I have a lot of fish. > > But, 2 days ago, some of my fish died..!!! > > I can't believe that...!! > > I don't know why it can happend. > > __________________________________________________________ > Not happy with your email address?. > Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now > at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Regards Sohil Garg Contact : >> sohil.garg@... Visit : >> http://sohil.garg.googlepages.com -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28466	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: Help Me...!!!

Whens the last time you did a water change? What are your waters parameters meaning, have you tested your water lately? What are the dying of? What did they look like? How were they acting? You have to give a bit more info than they died and you dont know why. --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Black Revenge <black_revenge46@...> wrote: From: Black Revenge <black_revenge46@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Help Me...!!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 9:15 AM I have a lot of fish.   But, 2 days ago, some of my fish died..!!!   I can't believe that...!!   I don't know why it can happend. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs yahoo.com/ ymail/new. html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28467	From: Sohil Garg	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: aerators

Hey all How important are aerators to an aquarium? How do they benefit? Regards Sohil Garg Contact : >> sohil.garg@... Visit : >> http://sohil.garg.googlepages.com -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28468	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: aerators

If you mean an airstone, bubble wand or bubble decoration in a tank, it is mostly decorative but the bubbles "popping" on the surface do provide additional surface agitation which does allow for gas exchange of O2 into the water and CO2, nitrogenous gases, etc. out of the water. If you have an HOB filter that waterfalls back into the tank or if you have your return from any other filter that causes surface agitation, this will also do the job and usually provides a lot more agitation and in that case, the airstone goes back to being mostly decorative. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sohil Garg Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; A-s-k@yahoogroups.com; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] aerators Hey all How important are aerators to an aquarium? How do they benefit? Regards Sohil Garg Contact : >> sohil.garg@... <mailto:sohil.garg%40gmail.com> Visit : >> http://sohil.garg.googlepages.com <http://sohil.garg.googlepages.com> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1521 - Release Date: 6/26/2008 11:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28469	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?

Ok everyone, Here's the results of my water testing with a high-range pH kit. It's giving me a headache. Water Source pH Alkalinity Range ================================================ Tank Water 7.6 0 - 1.6 Tap, softened 7.4 2.9 - 3.6 R.O. Water 6.8 1.7 - 2.8 Softened Tap Water after standing for 24 hours 8.0 2.9 - 3.6 If anyone can clue me in on what I can do about this without investing in the handy 55 gallon size of pH Down, I would appreciate it. As you can see from the results, in spite of my efforts in trying to bring the pH down in the tank, it has actually gone up in the two weeks since my last cleaning. I make up losses with RO water, which may explain some of that. I lose 2-3 gallons a week. Maybe I should just go to African Cichlids, except I don't know what I'd do with my current fish. (I keep a general freshwater community tank with Gouramis, Glass Cats, a Ghost Knife, a couple Clown Loaches, etc. Nothing all that exotic.) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Gregg, > > Get yourself a high range pH test for your water to find out what the pH is for sure. Being bored today, I did a search for you, but was not able to find a water report online for your Water Department, but, you can call them here to try and get one: Customer Service Specialist/System Analyst, David Martin 304-725-2311, extension 223. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units? > > OK, here are the results of my water testing: > > > > Tap water from city source tested immediately, from a line that has never > been softened: pH 7.4 > > Tap water, not softened, after 24 hour wait: pH 7.4 > > Reverse-osmosis water (R.O. unit is very small. I only can use it to top off > losses between changes): pH 6.6 > > Softened tap water tested immediately from house line: pH 7.4 > > > > I keep a 55 gallon freshwater community tank with various Gouramis, a few > Clown Loaches, a Weatherfish, a few Cory cats, a Plecostomus, a Black Ghost > Knife, a stray feeder Goldfish that somehow survived being eaten, Glass Cats > various Tetras. I have plenty of natural driftwood in the setup, no > rockwork at all and various live plants. > > > > I'm not entirely sure the pH is at 7.4, but that's as high as the chart with > kit I have goes. The test water comes out a somewhat deeper blue color than > the chart. I came here (Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia) from the Midwest > where the water is naturally hard and the pH ranges are around the upper 6 > s to 7.0 out of the tap. If the consensus is that the fish will be fine at > these pH levels, I'll quit chasing the pH levels. If not, how can I make > sense of this situation and deal with it without stressing my fish to death > and without buying "pH Down" in the handy gallon size? > > > >    > > Gregg Bender > > Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. > > www.nvsr.org > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28470	From: harry perry	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: pH change /Greg

Fish can adjust to your pH. The main concern would be stability. Wild fluctuations cause more harm to fish than not having a perfect pH. The fish you mentioned will do well once the pH stabilizes. Adding chemicals to control your pH can cause more harm than good. Harry Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario A tropical fish group. Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools. Napoleon --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Gregg Bender <greggb57@...> wrote: From: Gregg Bender <greggb57@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 6:50 PM Ok everyone, Here's the results of my water testing with a high-range pH kit. It's giving me a headache. Water Source pH Alkalinity Range ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= Tank Water 7.6 0 - 1.6 Tap, softened 7.4 2.9 - 3.6 R.O. Water 6.8 1.7 - 2.8 Softened Tap Water after standing for 24 hours 8.0 2.9 - 3.6 If anyone can clue me in on what I can do about this without investing in the handy 55 gallon size of pH Down, I would appreciate it. As you can see from the results, in spite of my efforts in trying to bring the pH down in the tank, it has actually gone up in the two weeks since my last cleaning. I make up losses with RO water, which may explain some of that. I lose 2-3 gallons a week. Maybe I should just go to African Cichlids, except I don't know what I'd do with my current fish. (I keep a general freshwater community tank with Gouramis, Glass Cats, a Ghost Knife, a couple Clown Loaches, etc. Nothing all that exotic.) --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Gregg, > > Get yourself a high range pH test for your water to find out what the pH is for sure. Being bored today, I did a search for you, but was not able to find a water report online for your Water Department, but, you can call them here to try and get one: Customer Service Specialist/System Analyst, David Martin 304-725-2311, extension 223. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units? > > OK, here are the results of my water testing: > > > > Tap water from city source tested immediately, from a line that has never > been softened: pH 7.4 > > Tap water, not softened, after 24 hour wait: pH 7.4 > > Reverse-osmosis water (R.O. unit is very small. I only can use it to top off > losses between changes): pH 6.6 > > Softened tap water tested immediately from house line: pH 7.4 > > > > I keep a 55 gallon freshwater community tank with various Gouramis, a few > Clown Loaches, a Weatherfish, a few Cory cats, a Plecostomus, a Black Ghost > Knife, a stray feeder Goldfish that somehow survived being eaten, Glass Cats > various Tetras. I have plenty of natural driftwood in the setup, no > rockwork at all and various live plants. > > > > I'm not entirely sure the pH is at 7.4, but that's as high as the chart with > kit I have goes. The test water comes out a somewhat deeper blue color than > the chart. I came here (Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia) from the Midwest > where the water is naturally hard and the pH ranges are around the upper 6 > s to 7.0 out of the tap. If the consensus is that the fish will be fine at > these pH levels, I'll quit chasing the pH levels. If not, how can I make > sense of this situation and deal with it without stressing my fish to death > and without buying "pH Down" in the handy gallon size? > > > >    > > Gregg Bender > > Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. > > www.nvsr.org > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28471	From: harry perry	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?

Fish can adjust to your pH. The main concern would be stability. Wild fluctuations cause more harm to fish than not having a perfect pH. The fish you mentioned will do well once the pH stabilizes. Adding chemicals to control your pH can cause more harm than good. Harry Visit us at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/badis-dario A tropical fish group. Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools. Napoleon --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Gregg Bender <greggb57@...> wrote: From: Gregg Bender <greggb57@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 6:50 PM Ok everyone, Here's the results of my water testing with a high-range pH kit. It's giving me a headache. Water Source pH Alkalinity Range ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= Tank Water 7.6 0 - 1.6 Tap, softened 7.4 2.9 - 3.6 R.O. Water 6.8 1.7 - 2.8 Softened Tap Water after standing for 24 hours 8.0 2.9 - 3.6 If anyone can clue me in on what I can do about this without investing in the handy 55 gallon size of pH Down, I would appreciate it. As you can see from the results, in spite of my efforts in trying to bring the pH down in the tank, it has actually gone up in the two weeks since my last cleaning. I make up losses with RO water, which may explain some of that. I lose 2-3 gallons a week. Maybe I should just go to African Cichlids, except I don't know what I'd do with my current fish. (I keep a general freshwater community tank with Gouramis, Glass Cats, a Ghost Knife, a couple Clown Loaches, etc. Nothing all that exotic.) --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Gregg, > > Get yourself a high range pH test for your water to find out what the pH is for sure. Being bored today, I did a search for you, but was not able to find a water report online for your Water Department, but, you can call them here to try and get one: Customer Service Specialist/System Analyst, David Martin 304-725-2311, extension 223. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units? > > OK, here are the results of my water testing: > > > > Tap water from city source tested immediately, from a line that has never > been softened: pH 7.4 > > Tap water, not softened, after 24 hour wait: pH 7.4 > > Reverse-osmosis water (R.O. unit is very small. I only can use it to top off > losses between changes): pH 6.6 > > Softened tap water tested immediately from house line: pH 7.4 > > > > I keep a 55 gallon freshwater community tank with various Gouramis, a few > Clown Loaches, a Weatherfish, a few Cory cats, a Plecostomus, a Black Ghost > Knife, a stray feeder Goldfish that somehow survived being eaten, Glass Cats > various Tetras. I have plenty of natural driftwood in the setup, no > rockwork at all and various live plants. > > > > I'm not entirely sure the pH is at 7.4, but that's as high as the chart with > kit I have goes. The test water comes out a somewhat deeper blue color than > the chart. I came here (Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia) from the Midwest > where the water is naturally hard and the pH ranges are around the upper 6 > s to 7.0 out of the tap. If the consensus is that the fish will be fine at > these pH levels, I'll quit chasing the pH levels. If not, how can I make > sense of this situation and deal with it without stressing my fish to death > and without buying "pH Down" in the handy gallon size? > > > >    > > Gregg Bender > > Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. > > www.nvsr.org > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28472	From: Sohil Garg	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: aerators

Yeah that's what even I thought. Thanks lenny. Sohil -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] aerators If you mean an airstone, bubble wand or bubble decoration in a tank, it is mostly decorative but the bubbles "popping" on the surface do provide additional surface agitation which does allow for gas exchange of O2 into the water and CO2, nitrogenous gases, etc. out of the water. If you have an HOB filter that waterfalls back into the tank or if you have your return from any other filter that causes surface agitation, this will also do the job and usually provides a lot more agitation and in that case, the airstone goes back to being mostly decorative. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sohil Garg Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; A-s-k@yahoogroups.com; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] aerators Hey all How important are aerators to an aquarium? How do they benefit? Regards Sohil Garg Contact : >> sohil.garg@... <mailto:sohil.garg%40gmail.com> Visit : >> http://sohil.garg.googlepages.com <http://sohil.garg.googlepages.com> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1521 - Release Date: 6/26/2008 11:20 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28473	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?

Quit worrying about buying chemicals. Your tank water at 7.6 is perfectly fine for most fish. There's no need to bring it down with chemicals or other means. Now that you know your "softened tap" has a baseline pH of 8.0, simply add 30% RO water to your tap water for each LARGE PWC to keep it around 7.6 but for 25% PWC's, you could just use the tap without problems. Considering that the ecology of a tank will always lower the pH anyhow (CO2 from the fish, CO2 and carbonic acid from decaying detritus, etc.), just doing 25% PWC's with your 8.0 tap water will probably keep the tank "naturally" in the 7.6 range anyhow. My tap water pH is in the high 7's to 8.0 range and I do weekly 25% PWC's and my tank is usually in the low to mid 7's by the time I do my PWC. Of course, the goldfish, plants and driftwood all help lower the pH as part of the natural ecology of my tank. In reviewing the thread, you have more to worry about with the bioload and stocking level in your tank rather than the pH level. The Clown Loaches, Pleco, Black Knifefish and Goldfish all need more room than a 55G can provide. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges? Ok everyone, Here's the results of my water testing with a high-range pH kit. It's giving me a headache. Water Source pH Alkalinity Range ================================================ Tank Water 7.6 0 - 1.6 Tap, softened 7.4 2.9 - 3.6 R.O. Water 6.8 1.7 - 2.8 Softened Tap Water after standing for 24 hours 8.0 2.9 - 3.6 If anyone can clue me in on what I can do about this without investing in the handy 55 gallon size of pH Down, I would appreciate it. As you can see from the results, in spite of my efforts in trying to bring the pH down in the tank, it has actually gone up in the two weeks since my last cleaning. I make up losses with RO water, which may explain some of that. I lose 2-3 gallons a week. Maybe I should just go to African Cichlids, except I don't know what I'd do with my current fish. (I keep a general freshwater community tank with Gouramis, Glass Cats, a Ghost Knife, a couple Clown Loaches, etc. Nothing all that exotic.) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Gregg, > > Get yourself a high range pH test for your water to find out what the pH is for sure. Being bored today, I did a search for you, but was not able to find a water report online for your Water Department, but, you can call them here to try and get one: Customer Service Specialist/System Analyst, David Martin 304-725-2311, extension 223. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units? > > OK, here are the results of my water testing: > > > > Tap water from city source tested immediately, from a line that has never > been softened: pH 7.4 > > Tap water, not softened, after 24 hour wait: pH 7.4 > > Reverse-osmosis water (R.O. unit is very small. I only can use it to top off > losses between changes): pH 6.6 > > Softened tap water tested immediately from house line: pH 7.4 > > > > I keep a 55 gallon freshwater community tank with various Gouramis, a few > Clown Loaches, a Weatherfish, a few Cory cats, a Plecostomus, a Black Ghost > Knife, a stray feeder Goldfish that somehow survived being eaten, Glass Cats > various Tetras. I have plenty of natural driftwood in the setup, no > rockwork at all and various live plants. > > > > I'm not entirely sure the pH is at 7.4, but that's as high as the chart with > kit I have goes. The test water comes out a somewhat deeper blue color than > the chart. I came here (Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia) from the Midwest > where the water is naturally hard and the pH ranges are around the upper 6 > s to 7.0 out of the tap. If the consensus is that the fish will be fine at > these pH levels, I'll quit chasing the pH levels. If not, how can I > make sense of this situation and deal with it without stressing my > fish to death > and without buying "pH Down" in the handy gallon size? > > > >    > > Gregg Bender > > Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. > > www.nvsr.org > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1521 - Release Date: 6/26/2008 11:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28474	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?

Greg, I forget, is that a black ghost, or is it a ghost knife (brownish in color)? If it is the latter (_Notopterus notopterus_), then you may have a problem with water of 8.0 pH. The other fish can easily adjust to that pH. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges? Ok everyone, Here's the results of my water testing with a high-range pH kit. It's giving me a headache. Water Source pH Alkalinity Range ================================================ Tank Water 7.6 0 - 1.6 Tap, softened 7.4 2.9 - 3.6 R.O. Water 6.8 1.7 - 2.8 Softened Tap Water after standing for 24 hours 8.0 2.9 - 3.6 If anyone can clue me in on what I can do about this without investing in the handy 55 gallon size of pH Down, I would appreciate it. As you can see from the results, in spite of my efforts in trying to bring the pH down in the tank, it has actually gone up in the two weeks since my last cleaning. I make up losses with RO water, which may explain some of that. I lose 2-3 gallons a week. Maybe I should just go to African Cichlids, except I don't know what I'd do with my current fish. (I keep a general freshwater community tank with Gouramis, Glass Cats, a Ghost Knife, a couple Clown Loaches, etc. Nothing all that exotic.) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Gregg, > > Get yourself a high range pH test for your water to find out what the pH is for sure. Being bored today, I did a search for you, but was not able to find a water report online for your Water Department, but, you can call them here to try and get one: Customer Service Specialist/System Analyst, David Martin 304-725-2311, extension 223. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units? > > OK, here are the results of my water testing: > > > > Tap water from city source tested immediately, from a line that has never > been softened: pH 7.4 > > Tap water, not softened, after 24 hour wait: pH 7.4 > > Reverse-osmosis water (R.O. unit is very small. I only can use it to top off > losses between changes): pH 6.6 > > Softened tap water tested immediately from house line: pH 7.4 > > > > I keep a 55 gallon freshwater community tank with various Gouramis, a few > Clown Loaches, a Weatherfish, a few Cory cats, a Plecostomus, a Black Ghost > Knife, a stray feeder Goldfish that somehow survived being eaten, Glass Cats > various Tetras. I have plenty of natural driftwood in the setup, no > rockwork at all and various live plants. > > > > I'm not entirely sure the pH is at 7.4, but that's as high as the chart with > kit I have goes. The test water comes out a somewhat deeper blue color than > the chart. I came here (Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia) from the Midwest > where the water is naturally hard and the pH ranges are around the upper 6 > s to 7.0 out of the tap. If the consensus is that the fish will be fine at > these pH levels, I'll quit chasing the pH levels. If not, how can I make > sense of this situation and deal with it without stressing my fish to death > and without buying "pH Down" in the handy gallon size? > > > >    > > Gregg Bender > > Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. > > www.nvsr.org > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28475	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/26/2008
Subject: Tetrapond filter

I recently took out a 200 gallon pond out of my backyard. The pond used to have Koi in it. I was using a Tetrapond 1 Bio filter and with two submersable pumps feeding it. I was wondering if I would be able to use this filter setup on one of my 55 gallon aquariums that I am resealing then gunna set up. I would only use one of the sub pumps. I would probably set it inside a small fishtank in case it leaked. Would this work? Thanks Tom

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28476	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?

Good catch, Steve. Gregg did mention both Black Ghost and Ghost Knife fish in two different posts. Besides the species you brought up, there is also a member of the weakly electric Gymnotid Eels (Gymnotidae) to consider, more specifically Hypopomus occidentalis to consider which are also called Black (or Brown) Knife fish, which may have different requirements. The other fish Gregg mentions should not have a problem even at a pH of 8.0 and should be of no concern, depending on which "Knife/Ghost" fish he has. While it is the direct result of the nitrification process (tank ecology) to lower the pH over time, this will be seen to take a shortened or lengthened period of time depending on the bioload. Many of the fish mentioned, while not an immediate problem, will greatly increase this bioload as they increase their size more towards that of maturity -- so much so, that it will be impossible to maintain these fish properly when they do get near adult size. Common Pleco's can easily reach 18" or more, while Clown Loaches will get over 12" and Ghost Knife fish 20". We should not need to consider the Goldfish (getting to 12"+) , as this fish does not belong with the tropicals, but it should be pointed out that at some point this fish should be removed. I would like to cover the aeration subject Gregg brings up, and its role in maintaining an aquarium can be significant depending on the type of filter used and its role (or lack of) in creating a constant turnover of the water column. The airstone's bubbles play a more beneficial part in turbulance than their mere popping would suggest. A constant column of rising air bubbles will directly cause a turnover of "new" water at the surface, enabling this new water to exchance gases -- where only these gas exchanges take place. In the realm of any insufficient movement of surface water by the particular filtration system being used, aeration by the use of airstones will ensure new water from the depths of the aquarium is always turning over at the surface. With the use of aeration, approximately double the bioload can be maintained in the aquarium as opposed to having a still surface. This should NOT be relied upon to make use of, if its seen as a method to double up on the number of fish, even though it will support it. Any sudden and unexpected power outage (aren't they all?) will spell death to all inhabitants in short time if its chosen to fully rely on this artificial support but its good to know that aeration increases the safety margin of a sensibly stocked tank in times of higher temperatures. Then too, aeration will homogenize your tank's temperature, constantly mixing the strata, which is especially helpful during winter when your heater is working. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Greg, > > I forget, is that a black ghost, or is it a ghost knife (brownish in color)? > > If it is the latter (_Notopterus notopterus_), then you may have a problem with water of 8.0 pH. The other fish can easily adjust to that pH. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges? > > Ok everyone, > > Here's the results of my water testing with a high-range pH kit. It's > giving me a headache. > > Water Source pH Alkalinity Range > ================================================ > Tank Water 7.6 0 - 1.6 > > Tap, softened 7.4 2.9 - 3.6 > > R.O. Water 6.8 1.7 - 2.8 > > Softened Tap Water > after standing for > 24 hours 8.0 2.9 - 3.6 > > If anyone can clue me in on what I can do about this without investing > in the handy 55 gallon size of pH Down, I would appreciate it. As you > can see from the results, in spite of my efforts in trying to bring > the pH down in the tank, it has actually gone up in the two weeks > since my last cleaning. I make up losses with RO water, which may > explain some of that. I lose 2-3 gallons a week. > > Maybe I should just go to African Cichlids, except I don't know what > I'd do with my current fish. (I keep a general freshwater community > tank with Gouramis, Glass Cats, a Ghost Knife, a couple Clown Loaches, > etc. Nothing all that exotic.) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Gregg, > > > > Get yourself a high range pH test for your water to find out what > the pH is for sure. Being bored today, I did a search for you, but was > not able to find a water report online for your Water Department, but, > you can call them here to try and get one: Customer Service > Specialist/System Analyst, David Martin 304-725-2311, extension 223. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender > > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:02 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units? > > > > OK, here are the results of my water testing: > > > > > > > > Tap water from city source tested immediately, from a line that has > never > > been softened: pH 7.4 > > > > Tap water, not softened, after 24 hour wait: pH 7.4 > > > > Reverse-osmosis water (R.O. unit is very small. I only can use it to > top off > > losses between changes): pH 6.6 > > > > Softened tap water tested immediately from house line: pH 7.4 > > > > > > > > I keep a 55 gallon freshwater community tank with various Gouramis, > a few > > Clown Loaches, a Weatherfish, a few Cory cats, a Plecostomus, a > Black Ghost > > Knife, a stray feeder Goldfish that somehow survived being eaten, > Glass Cats > > various Tetras. I have plenty of natural driftwood in the setup, no > > rockwork at all and various live plants. > > > > > > > > I'm not entirely sure the pH is at 7.4, but that's as high as the > chart with > > kit I have goes. The test water comes out a somewhat deeper blue > color than > > the chart. I came here (Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia) from the > Midwest > > where the water is naturally hard and the pH ranges are around the > upper 6 > > s to 7.0 out of the tap. If the consensus is that the fish will be > fine at > > these pH levels, I'll quit chasing the pH levels. If not, how can I make > > sense of this situation and deal with it without stressing my fish > to death > > and without buying "pH Down" in the handy gallon size? > > > > > > > >    > > > > Gregg Bender > > > > Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. > > > > www.nvsr.org > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28477	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny.. question about betta's

Lenny, AM thinking about getting a Betta, Do they if put in a decent size tank 1.5 something to sit on my desk need airation/ filter? if they truly don't what other fish, maybe 2 can breathe air? and what types of substrate do they need? Can I use ocean rocks in the tank? bottom feeder? I was thinking about a freshwater crab. should I also have a vacuum? Also, if i wanted to add a female, good or bad idea? thanks bunches!!! Lisa and Spike psd On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > You absolutely have to vacuum the gravel/bottom of a tank or the detritus > will become home to bad bacteria which will eventually cause harm to your > fish. For that small of a tank, you could just use a piece of water-safe > hose as the siphon vacuum so it shouldn't cost more than a couple of > dollars. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Robert Mazur > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; Betta_Crazy@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Vacuums > > Hey guys: > > Was just wondering what your thoughts/opinions of aquarium vacuums. I know > that there is a lot of food and other debris building up on the floor of > the > tank. I have a 1.5 gallon Tetra tank and was wondering if it was worth the > $10 or not. > > Thanks! > > Rob > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1521 - Release Date: 6/26/2008 > 11:20 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28478	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?

Hi Steve and all, That's a Black Ghost Knife. He's(?) one of the few that seems to be thriving. The Goruamis are looking a little 'rough," as if they were losing scales somehow. I'll stop chasing the pH and see what happens. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Greg, > > I forget, is that a black ghost, or is it a ghost knife (brownish in color)? > > If it is the latter (_Notopterus notopterus_), then you may have a problem with water of 8.0 pH. The other fish can easily adjust to that pH. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges? > > Ok everyone, > > Here's the results of my water testing with a high-range pH kit. It's > giving me a headache. > > Water Source pH Alkalinity Range > ================================================ > Tank Water 7.6 0 - 1.6 > > Tap, softened 7.4 2.9 - 3.6 > > R.O. Water 6.8 1.7 - 2.8 > > Softened Tap Water > after standing for > 24 hours 8.0 2.9 - 3.6 > > If anyone can clue me in on what I can do about this without investing > in the handy 55 gallon size of pH Down, I would appreciate it. As you > can see from the results, in spite of my efforts in trying to bring > the pH down in the tank, it has actually gone up in the two weeks > since my last cleaning. I make up losses with RO water, which may > explain some of that. I lose 2-3 gallons a week. > > Maybe I should just go to African Cichlids, except I don't know what > I'd do with my current fish. (I keep a general freshwater community > tank with Gouramis, Glass Cats, a Ghost Knife, a couple Clown Loaches, > etc. Nothing all that exotic.) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Gregg, > > > > Get yourself a high range pH test for your water to find out what > the pH is for sure. Being bored today, I did a search for you, but was > not able to find a water report online for your Water Department, but, > you can call them here to try and get one: Customer Service > Specialist/System Analyst, David Martin 304-725-2311, extension 223. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender > > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:02 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units? > > > > OK, here are the results of my water testing: > > > > > > > > Tap water from city source tested immediately, from a line that has > never > > been softened: pH 7.4 > > > > Tap water, not softened, after 24 hour wait: pH 7.4 > > > > Reverse-osmosis water (R.O. unit is very small. I only can use it to > top off > > losses between changes): pH 6.6 > > > > Softened tap water tested immediately from house line: pH 7.4 > > > > > > > > I keep a 55 gallon freshwater community tank with various Gouramis, > a few > > Clown Loaches, a Weatherfish, a few Cory cats, a Plecostomus, a > Black Ghost > > Knife, a stray feeder Goldfish that somehow survived being eaten, > Glass Cats > > various Tetras. I have plenty of natural driftwood in the setup, no > > rockwork at all and various live plants. > > > > > > > > I'm not entirely sure the pH is at 7.4, but that's as high as the > chart with > > kit I have goes. The test water comes out a somewhat deeper blue > color than > > the chart. I came here (Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia) from the > Midwest > > where the water is naturally hard and the pH ranges are around the > upper 6 > > s to 7.0 out of the tap. If the consensus is that the fish will be > fine at > > these pH levels, I'll quit chasing the pH levels. If not, how can I make > > sense of this situation and deal with it without stressing my fish > to death > > and without buying "pH Down" in the handy gallon size? > > > > > > > >    > > > > Gregg Bender > > > > Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. > > > > www.nvsr.org > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28479	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny.. question about betta's

Lisa: I have a 1.5 gal tank with a single betta and he loves it. I bought the Tetra WonderTank kit that came with two plastic plants and filter. I do a 25% PWC every week and have just started using a vacuum for the tank. I am having some issues with the vacuum though, I don't think the tank has enough height to get decent suction out of it. I am still experimenting. I don't think you will need a bottom feeder. I don't have one and haven't had any issues. Just my $0.02 worth from the little experience I have. Rob On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:05 PM, L. Gove <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: > Lenny, > AM thinking about getting a Betta, Do they if put in a decent size tank 1.5 > something to sit on my desk need airation/ filter? if they truly don't what > other fish, maybe 2 can breathe air? and what types of substrate do they > need? Can I use ocean rocks in the tank? bottom feeder? I was thinking > about a freshwater crab. > should I also have a vacuum? > > Also, if i wanted to add a female, good or bad idea? > > thanks bunches!!! > > Lisa and Spike psd > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > You absolutely have to vacuum the gravel/bottom of a tank or the detritus > > will become home to bad bacteria which will eventually cause harm to your > > fish. For that small of a tank, you could just use a piece of water-safe > > hose as the siphon vacuum so it shouldn't cost more than a couple of > > dollars. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Robert Mazur > > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:38 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>; > Betta_Crazy@yahoogroups.com <Betta_Crazy%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Vacuums > > > > Hey guys: > > > > Was just wondering what your thoughts/opinions of aquarium vacuums. I > know > > that there is a lot of food and other debris building up on the floor of > > the > > tank. I have a 1.5 gallon Tetra tank and was wondering if it was worth > the > > $10 or not. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Rob > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1521 - Release Date: 6/26/2008 > > 11:20 AM > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > on yahoo kwelyroos71 > on MSN kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40live.com> > on aol kwelyroos1971 > google talk kwelyroos71 > ICQ 477496656 > dark.moon.crafts@... <dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> > http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28480	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges?

Ray, It has been at least a year and a half since I've seen Gregg's tank, so I have a slight, very slight, advantage here. I'll definitely have a look at it if our ladies have their way for the upcoming holiday weekend. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 8:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges? Good catch, Steve. Gregg did mention both Black Ghost and Ghost Knife fish in two different posts. Besides the species you brought up, there is also a member of the weakly electric Gymnotid Eels (Gymnotidae) to consider, more specifically Hypopomus occidentalis to consider which are also called Black (or Brown) Knife fish, which may have different requirements. The other fish Gregg mentions should not have a problem even at a pH of 8.0 and should be of no concern, depending on which "Knife/Ghost" fish he has. While it is the direct result of the nitrification process (tank ecology) to lower the pH over time, this will be seen to take a shortened or lengthened period of time depending on the bioload. Many of the fish mentioned, while not an immediate problem, will greatly increase this bioload as they increase their size more towards that of maturity -- so much so, that it will be impossible to maintain these fish properly when they do get near adult size. Common Pleco's can easily reach 18" or more, while Clown Loaches will get over 12" and Ghost Knife fish 20". We should not need to consider the Goldfish (getting to 12"+) , as this fish does not belong with the tropicals, but it should be pointed out that at some point this fish should be removed. I would like to cover the aeration subject Gregg brings up, and its role in maintaining an aquarium can be significant depending on the type of filter used and its role (or lack of) in creating a constant turnover of the water column. The airstone's bubbles play a more beneficial part in turbulance than their mere popping would suggest. A constant column of rising air bubbles will directly cause a turnover of "new" water at the surface, enabling this new water to exchance gases -- where only these gas exchanges take place. In the realm of any insufficient movement of surface water by the particular filtration system being used, aeration by the use of airstones will ensure new water from the depths of the aquarium is always turning over at the surface. With the use of aeration, approximately double the bioload can be maintained in the aquarium as opposed to having a still surface. This should NOT be relied upon to make use of, if its seen as a method to double up on the number of fish, even though it will support it. Any sudden and unexpected power outage (aren't they all?) will spell death to all inhabitants in short time if its chosen to fully rely on this artificial support but its good to know that aeration increases the safety margin of a sensibly stocked tank in times of higher temperatures. Then too, aeration will homogenize your tank's temperature, constantly mixing the strata, which is especially helpful during winter when your heater is working. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Greg, > > I forget, is that a black ghost, or is it a ghost knife (brownish in color)? > > If it is the latter (_Notopterus notopterus_), then you may have a problem with water of 8.0 pH. The other fish can easily adjust to that pH. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units and ridiculous pH ranges? > > Ok everyone, > > Here's the results of my water testing with a high-range pH kit. It's > giving me a headache. > > Water Source pH Alkalinity Range > ================================================ > Tank Water 7.6 0 - 1.6 > > Tap, softened 7.4 2.9 - 3.6 > > R.O. Water 6.8 1.7 - 2.8 > > Softened Tap Water > after standing for > 24 hours 8.0 2.9 - 3.6 > > If anyone can clue me in on what I can do about this without investing > in the handy 55 gallon size of pH Down, I would appreciate it. As you > can see from the results, in spite of my efforts in trying to bring > the pH down in the tank, it has actually gone up in the two weeks > since my last cleaning. I make up losses with RO water, which may > explain some of that. I lose 2-3 gallons a week. > > Maybe I should just go to African Cichlids, except I don't know what > I'd do with my current fish. (I keep a general freshwater community > tank with Gouramis, Glass Cats, a Ghost Knife, a couple Clown Loaches, > etc. Nothing all that exotic.) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Gregg, > > > > Get yourself a high range pH test for your water to find out what > the pH is for sure. Being bored today, I did a search for you, but was > not able to find a water report online for your Water Department, but, > you can call them here to try and get one: Customer Service > Specialist/System Analyst, David Martin 304-725-2311, extension 223. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Bender > > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:02 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH change units? > > > > OK, here are the results of my water testing: > > > > > > > > Tap water from city source tested immediately, from a line that has > never > > been softened: pH 7.4 > > > > Tap water, not softened, after 24 hour wait: pH 7.4 > > > > Reverse-osmosis water (R.O. unit is very small. I only can use it to > top off > > losses between changes): pH 6.6 > > > > Softened tap water tested immediately from house line: pH 7.4 > > > > > > > > I keep a 55 gallon freshwater community tank with various Gouramis, > a few > > Clown Loaches, a Weatherfish, a few Cory cats, a Plecostomus, a > Black Ghost > > Knife, a stray feeder Goldfish that somehow survived being eaten, > Glass Cats > > various Tetras. I have plenty of natural driftwood in the setup, no > > rockwork at all and various live plants. > > > > > > > > I'm not entirely sure the pH is at 7.4, but that's as high as the > chart with > > kit I have goes. The test water comes out a somewhat deeper blue > color than > > the chart. I came here (Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia) from the > Midwest > > where the water is naturally hard and the pH ranges are around the > upper 6 > > s to 7.0 out of the tap. If the consensus is that the fish will be > fine at > > these pH levels, I'll quit chasing the pH levels. If not, how can I make > > sense of this situation and deal with it without stressing my fish > to death > > and without buying "pH Down" in the handy gallon size? > > > > > > > >    > > > > Gregg Bender > > > > Owned by The Barks Brothers, four professional woofers. > > > > www.nvsr.org > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28481	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Vacuums

I just got an e-heim sludge extractor adn gravel vacuum, for $50 on sale at Petco. Usually sells for $80. Product has great reviews, but I'm not that happy with it. PRoduct can clean up the leftovers from dinner, but it doesn't have much power, barely has suction, and didn't clean the gravel remotely adequately. Even after I stuffed the collection chamber with poly fiber it didn't remove the fine stuff that was stirred up in the water. And that's allegedly the best model of that sort. YOu can get tank vacuums for about $200. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Mazur To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ; Betta_Crazy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Vacuums Hey guys: Was just wondering what your thoughts/opinions of aquarium vacuums. I know that there is a lot of food and other debris building up on the floor of the tank. I have a 1.5 gallon Tetra tank and was wondering if it was worth the $10 or not. Thanks! Rob -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1521 - Release Date: 6/26/2008 11:20 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28482	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/27/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Vacuums

He's right. I didn't see the 1.5 gallon part. :) A tiny hose should be about right! Even a length of air hose. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:57 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Vacuums You absolutely have to vacuum the gravel/bottom of a tank or the detritus will become home to bad bacteria which will eventually cause harm to your fish. For that small of a tank, you could just use a piece of water-safe hose as the siphon vacuum so it shouldn't cost more than a couple of dollars. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; Betta_Crazy@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Vacuums Hey guys: Was just wondering what your thoughts/opinions of aquarium vacuums. I know that there is a lot of food and other debris building up on the floor of the tank. I have a 1.5 gallon Tetra tank and was wondering if it was worth the $10 or not. Thanks! Rob No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1521 - Release Date: 6/26/2008 11:20 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1521 - Release Date: 6/26/2008 11:20 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28483	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Vacuums

I had heard that they weren’t worth the $$ for those reasons. But what I don’t get is why a person wouldn’t just use a siphon and get the advantage of a water change at the same time? Regarding leftovers from dinner, I just make sure there aren’t any. I feed sinking pellets and sprinkle slowly so I see all of them consumed by the fish before they hit the substrate. Plus then I have 10 Synodontis catfish in the tank (it’s a 6 foot tank) who take care of any pellets that escape notice.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28484	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Molly spining

Hello everyone I found my Baloon Molly male spining around himself this morning , and both his eyes are protruding out a bit. no other symptoms (coloration, fungi.. etc..) I can't provide water parameters, but the temperature was 84-86 during the week, and I was keeping it around 82 by using freezed bottles several times aday, and keeping up with PWC's. Any conclusions? Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28485	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining

Pop-eye (protruding eyes) is generally a symptom of an internal bacterial infection. When you say "spining around himself", do you mean he is having trouble swimming without going in circles? This could also be bacteria related.. usually related to an internal bacterial infection that is affecting the swim bladder. I know you don't have access to a lot of the medicines that are available to some of us so do a search for what might be available in your area for anti-biotic foods. If you can quarantine the fish, that would be best. If you can't find any antibiotic foods, then you will have to treat the water column. Do you have access to MelaFix and PimaFix? They are "natural" (based on Tea Tree Oil and Bay Tree Oil) treatments made by API - Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. Melafix is an antibacterial and Pimafix is an antifungal but when combined, they provide a much stronger antibacterial treatment and I have used them in combination to successfully treat pop-eye in a Gourami that I adopted several years ago that wasn't eating so I couldn't use antibiotic food. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Molly spining Hello everyone I found my Baloon Molly male spining around himself this morning , and both his eyes are protruding out a bit. no other symptoms (coloration, fungi.. etc..) I can't provide water parameters, but the temperature was 84-86 during the week, and I was keeping it around 82 by using freezed bottles several times aday, and keeping up with PWC's. Any conclusions? Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.2/1523 - Release Date: 6/28/2008 7:00 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28486	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining

He's swiming in horizontal circles most of the time, although he's moving both his pectoral fins. When he doesn't spin, he's not swimming well, just slow and unsteady. He's not turning on his side or back at all. We don't have MelaFix, nor PrimaFix. I only have Malachite Green , and perhaps can find an antibiotic for fish, manufactured here under lisence of the U.S.A Water Life company. They don't say what does it contain on the bottle. He's in the hospital bowl since noon. Waiting for your reply Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 7:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Molly spining Pop-eye (protruding eyes) is generally a symptom of an internal bacterial infection. When you say "spining around himself", do you mean he is having trouble swimming without going in circles? This could also be bacteria related.. usually related to an internal bacterial infection that is affecting the swim bladder. I know you don't have access to a lot of the medicines that are available to some of us so do a search for what might be available in your area for anti-biotic foods. If you can quarantine the fish, that would be best. If you can't find any antibiotic foods, then you will have to treat the water column. Do you have access to MelaFix and PimaFix? They are "natural" (based on Tea Tree Oil and Bay Tree Oil) treatments made by API - Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. Melafix is an antibacterial and Pimafix is an antifungal but when combined, they provide a much stronger antibacterial treatment and I have used them in combination to successfully treat pop-eye in a Gourami that I adopted several years ago that wasn't eating so I couldn't use antibiotic food. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Molly spining Hello everyone I found my Baloon Molly male spining around himself this morning , and both his eyes are protruding out a bit. no other symptoms (coloration, fungi.. etc..) I can't provide water parameters, but the temperature was 84-86 during the week, and I was keeping it around 82 by using freezed bottles several times aday, and keeping up with PWC's. Any conclusions? Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.2/1523 - Release Date: 6/28/2008 7:00 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28487	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 7:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Molly spining Pop-eye (protruding eyes) is generally a symptom of an internal bacterial infection. When you say "spining around himself", do you mean he is having trouble swimming without going in circles? This could also be bacteria related.. usually related to an internal bacterial infection that is affecting the swim bladder. I know you don't have access to a lot of the medicines that are available to some of us so do a search for what might be available in your area for anti-biotic foods. If you can quarantine the fish, that would be best. If you can't find any antibiotic foods, then you will have to treat the water column. Do you have access to MelaFix and PimaFix? They are "natural" (based on Tea Tree Oil and Bay Tree Oil) treatments made by API - Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. Melafix is an antibacterial and Pimafix is an antifungal but when combined, they provide a much stronger antibacterial treatment and I have used them in combination to successfully treat pop-eye in a Gourami that I adopted several years ago that wasn't eating so I couldn't use antibiotic food. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Molly spining Hello everyone I found my Baloon Molly male spining around himself this morning , and both his eyes are protruding out a bit. no other symptoms (coloration, fungi.. etc..) I can't provide water parameters, but the temperature was 84-86 during the week, and I was keeping it around 82 by using freezed bottles several times aday, and keeping up with PWC's. Any conclusions? Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.2/1523 - Release Date: 6/28/2008 7:00 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28488	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining

Add about 1/4 teaspoon of salt per gallon to the water rather than what you have available for medicine there. If he does not seem to improve over 24 hours add another 1/4 teaspoon per gallon. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 1:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Molly spining He's swiming in horizontal circles most of the time, although he's moving both his pectoral fins. When he doesn't spin, he's not swimming well, just slow and unsteady. He's not turning on his side or back at all. We don't have MelaFix, nor PrimaFix. I only have Malachite Green , and perhaps can find an antibiotic for fish, manufactured here under lisence of the U.S.A Water Life company. They don't say what does it contain on the bottle. He's in the hospital bowl since noon. Waiting for your reply Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 7:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Molly spining Pop-eye (protruding eyes) is generally a symptom of an internal bacterial infection. When you say "spining around himself", do you mean he is having trouble swimming without going in circles? This could also be bacteria related.. usually related to an internal bacterial infection that is affecting the swim bladder. I know you don't have access to a lot of the medicines that are available to some of us so do a search for what might be available in your area for anti-biotic foods. If you can quarantine the fish, that would be best. If you can't find any antibiotic foods, then you will have to treat the water column. Do you have access to MelaFix and PimaFix? They are "natural" (based on Tea Tree Oil and Bay Tree Oil) treatments made by API - Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. Melafix is an antibacterial and Pimafix is an antifungal but when combined, they provide a much stronger antibacterial treatment and I have used them in combination to successfully treat pop-eye in a Gourami that I adopted several years ago that wasn't eating so I couldn't use antibiotic food. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Molly spining Hello everyone I found my Baloon Molly male spining around himself this morning , and both his eyes are protruding out a bit. no other symptoms (coloration, fungi.. etc..) I can't provide water parameters, but the temperature was 84-86 during the week, and I was keeping it around 82 by using freezed bottles several times aday, and keeping up with PWC's. Any conclusions? Thanks Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28489	From: foxey987m35	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: nitrate in a reef tank

hi all i have a 350 litre tank with a fx5 filter two tunze circulation pumps 40kg of live rock various soft corals tank contains two regals one purple tang two wrasse majestic angel crimson hawk three damsels two cucumbers one large hermit one red indian shrimp lawnmower blenny three clowns carpet amo mustard tang baby french angel file fish fx5 containes biomax pre filter media no filter sponges phos sorb carbon skimmer on side of tank tank up and running two years make my own salt water with ro unit top up system change 50 litres of water a week test readings are ph 8.2 gravity 1.025 amm 0 phos o nitrite 0 nitrate 100 nitrate my prob dont over feed all eaten in 30 secs when put into tank any suggestions to lower nitrate tank light by one metal halide two blue lihts tubes and two white tubes thats all i can say at moment ps all are healthy in tank

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28490	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: pH range update

Hello all, I'm not overly concerned with the long term growth of the Black Ghost Knife, Plecostomus (just 1) or the Clown Loaches at this point. I have another 55 gallon tank (and a 30 gallon tank) sitting empty right now, awaiting the investment for stands, filtration, pumps, etc. By the time those fish become big enough to need larger quarters, their new home(s) will be equipped and ready. I run a full undergravel filtration system with coarse airstones, plus two power filters to keep the setup clean and aerated. The setup has a large amount of natural driftwood and live plants that are doing reasonably well. For clarification purposes, my "Black Ghost Knife" is an Apteronotus albifrons. I keep hoping that I can pawn off that %&$^@& goldfish on someone that has a large carnivore. It's about 2 inches or so long. I ought to name it "Lucky," as it's the only survivor of many feeder fish that met their fates by becoming dinner for a previous tank occupant who is deceased.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28491	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining

Salt is always reliable to fall back on, in may cases, as a natural remedy. While I'm not advocating this additional additive as a sure- cure for Pop-Eye, some people also have good results using Epsom salts at a minimum rate of 1/8 tsp. per 5 gallons, progressively increasing it also, as you would table salt. Its worth a try where medicines may not be available. If medicines can be located, SeaChem's Kanaplex (Kanamycin) would be the one to look for. Failing the location of that medicine, Aquarium Pharmaceutical's Nalagram (Naladixic Acid) would be the second choice against internal Pseudomonas bacteria, although I understand your choices are limited. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Add about 1/4 teaspoon of salt per gallon to the water rather than what > you have available for medicine there. If he does not seem to improve > over 24 hours add another 1/4 teaspoon per gallon. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 1:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Molly spining > > He's swiming in horizontal circles most of the time, although he's > moving > both his pectoral fins. > When he doesn't spin, he's not swimming well, just slow and unsteady. > He's > not turning on his side or back at all. > > We don't have MelaFix, nor PrimaFix. > I only have Malachite Green , and perhaps can find an antibiotic for > fish, > manufactured here under lisence of the U.S.A Water Life company. They > don't > say what does it contain on the bottle. > > He's in the hospital bowl since noon. > > Waiting for your reply > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 7:11 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Molly spining > > > Pop-eye (protruding eyes) is generally a symptom of an internal > bacterial > infection. > > When you say "spining around himself", do you mean he is having trouble > swimming without going in circles? This could also be bacteria > related.. > usually related to an internal bacterial infection that is affecting the > swim bladder. > > I know you don't have access to a lot of the medicines that are > available to > some of us so do a search for what might be available in your area for > anti-biotic foods. If you can quarantine the fish, that would be best. > If > you can't find any antibiotic foods, then you will have to treat the > water > column. > > Do you have access to MelaFix and PimaFix? They are "natural" (based on > Tea > Tree Oil and Bay Tree Oil) treatments made by API - Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals, Inc. Melafix is an antibacterial and Pimafix is an > antifungal but when combined, they provide a much stronger antibacterial > treatment and I have used them in combination to successfully treat > pop-eye > in a Gourami that I adopted several years ago that wasn't eating so I > couldn't use antibiotic food. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:24 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Molly spining > > Hello everyone > I found my Baloon Molly male spining around himself this morning , and > both > his eyes are protruding out a bit. no other symptoms (coloration, > fungi.. > etc..) I can't provide water parameters, but the temperature was 84- 86 > during the week, and I was keeping it around 82 by using freezed bottles > several times aday, and keeping up with PWC's. > > Any conclusions? > Thanks > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28492	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2008
Subject: One of my danios is missing the silver part of its eye

One of my danios is missing the silver part of one of its eyes. That part of the eye is a deep reddish pink color instead. The pupil is there, though smaller than normal. It has been like this for as long as I've had the fish - atleast two weeks. The fish otherwise seems to be perfectly healthy. Active, normal appetite, slightly nasty disposition. And the fish aCtively tries to keep me from getting too good a look at that eye. Not kidding. I thought that this was probably either a genetic anomally or a fryhood accident, but one of my fish health books shows a picture of a fish with such an eye, describes it as eye destroyed from within, and says it's a fungal infection. What do you all think? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28493	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/29/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny.. question about betta's

thanks Rob!! On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Robert Mazur <rpmazur@...> wrote: > Lisa: > > I have a 1.5 gal tank with a single betta and he loves it. I bought the > Tetra WonderTank kit that came with two plastic plants and filter. I do a > 25% PWC every week and have just started using a vacuum for the tank. I am > having some issues with the vacuum though, I don't think the tank has > enough > height to get decent suction out of it. I am still experimenting. > > I don't think you will need a bottom feeder. I don't have one and haven't > had any issues. > > Just my $0.02 worth from the little experience I have. > > Rob > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28494	From: N Taweel	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining-UPDATE

Salt didn't work, I think he'll die shortly. He's lying on his side, breathing hard, and looks like his belly contains an air balloon that is about to explode. Looking at him makes me sad. I wanted to take him out of the water and end his suffering, but I thought I'll give you the update first, maybe you'll have a clearer vision about what's his illness, or what could possibly be done further. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 11:55 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Molly spining Salt is always reliable to fall back on, in may cases, as a natural remedy. While I'm not advocating this additional additive as a sure- cure for Pop-Eye, some people also have good results using Epsom salts at a minimum rate of 1/8 tsp. per 5 gallons, progressively increasing it also, as you would table salt. Its worth a try where medicines may not be available. If medicines can be located, SeaChem's Kanaplex (Kanamycin) would be the one to look for. Failing the location of that medicine, Aquarium Pharmaceutical's Nalagram (Naladixic Acid) would be the second choice against internal Pseudomonas bacteria, although I understand your choices are limited. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Add about 1/4 teaspoon of salt per gallon to the water rather than what > you have available for medicine there. If he does not seem to improve > over 24 hours add another 1/4 teaspoon per gallon. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 1:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Molly spining > > He's swiming in horizontal circles most of the time, although he's > moving > both his pectoral fins. > When he doesn't spin, he's not swimming well, just slow and unsteady. > He's > not turning on his side or back at all. > > We don't have MelaFix, nor PrimaFix. > I only have Malachite Green , and perhaps can find an antibiotic for > fish, > manufactured here under lisence of the U.S.A Water Life company. They > don't > say what does it contain on the bottle. > > He's in the hospital bowl since noon. > > Waiting for your reply > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28495	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Molly spining-UPDATE

Internal bacterial infection. It's what caused the pop-eye and is now causing the bloating. Given your limited access to medicines, the best thing you can do for all of your fish is to make sure they have optimal conditions so they have less of a chance of getting sick in the first place. This means keeping your tank(s) under stocked and keeping the water quality in top condition. Actually, that is the best thing that any of us should do rather than relying on meds to treat the fish that get sick because of overstocking and/or poor water quality. If you decide to euthanize, here's a site with some "humane" ways to do it. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Molly spining-UPDATE Salt didn't work, I think he'll die shortly. He's lying on his side, breathing hard, and looks like his belly contains an air balloon that is about to explode. Looking at him makes me sad. I wanted to take him out of the water and end his suffering, but I thought I'll give you the update first, maybe you'll have a clearer vision about what's his illness, or what could possibly be done further. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 11:55 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Molly spining Salt is always reliable to fall back on, in may cases, as a natural remedy. While I'm not advocating this additional additive as a sure- cure for Pop-Eye, some people also have good results using Epsom salts at a minimum rate of 1/8 tsp. per 5 gallons, progressively increasing it also, as you would table salt. Its worth a try where medicines may not be available. If medicines can be located, SeaChem's Kanaplex (Kanamycin) would be the one to look for. Failing the location of that medicine, Aquarium Pharmaceutical's Nalagram (Naladixic Acid) would be the second choice against internal Pseudomonas bacteria, although I understand your choices are limited. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Add about 1/4 teaspoon of salt per gallon to the water rather than what > you have available for medicine there. If he does not seem to improve > over 24 hours add another 1/4 teaspoon per gallon. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 1:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Molly spining > > He's swiming in horizontal circles most of the time, although he's > moving both his pectoral fins. > When he doesn't spin, he's not swimming well, just slow and unsteady. > He's > not turning on his side or back at all. > > We don't have MelaFix, nor PrimaFix. > I only have Malachite Green , and perhaps can find an antibiotic for > fish, manufactured here under lisence of the U.S.A Water Life company. They > don't > say what does it contain on the bottle. > > He's in the hospital bowl since noon. > > Waiting for your reply > Noura > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1525 - Release Date: 6/29/2008 3:09 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28496	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Bags for Purigen media

Hiya Lenny, Started using Purigen as my filter media and it's working great. Want to buy some extra bags to replace media when it gets dirty. What size bag 100 micron?, do you suggest? Do I need to buy the ones from Seachem or will any manufacturer's bag do the trick. Who do you you use for the bags? Thinking of use Purigen in my Eclipse tank but am at a loss as to how to make it work. Do you have any ideas? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28497	From: Jenn	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Photo tips wanted...

I have been trying to get some good pics of my own freshwater tank. I keep rainbows and want to post some pics on a forum for identification purposes... My question is: Is there a trick to getting pictures of really quick fish? Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28498	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

Assuming you're using a digital camera, there are a few things you can do. First off, digital cameras waste time focusing. Most digital cameras will focus when you half-press the shutter button and hold it in the half-pressed position. You will probably hear a beep when this is done successfully. So pick something in the tank to focus on, ideally just ahead of the fish's path and then wait for the fish to swim by. You can also focus on the fish, and then move the camera over to the side a bit. Another thing that can help is using good quality batteries (rechargeables are my favorite, but lithiums work well if you want disposeable). Plain alkalines will result in longer flash charge times which can cause lag issues from when you fully depress the shutter, and longer saving times which can prevent you from catching a good shot right after taking a dud. Another tactic you can try, if you don't mind a blurry background, is moving the camera to follow the fish after you've pressed the shutter button. This will hopefully result in a clear pic of the fish, but blur for the background - it takes some practice to get just right though. -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 8:12 PM, Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: > I have been trying to get some good pics of my own freshwater tank. I > keep rainbows and want to post some pics on a forum for identification > purposes... > > My question is: Is there a trick to getting pictures of really quick fish? > > Jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28499	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Hydrogen Peroxide

I seems to me that I remember that I read somewhere that using Hydrogen Peroxide was a good way of cleaning the filters and was harmless to fish. I have very large deposits on my filters from the hard water in my area and would like clean my filter casings from it. Is Hydrogen Peroxide a way of doing this. John In Nevada [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28500	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bags for Purigen media

I actually use the 100ml packages of Purigen which come pre-bagged in a sealed bag. The holes are really small compared to the media bags that I have for when I used to occasionally run carbon in my filters. Since the Purigen granules are so small, I would probably go with a piece of pantyhose/stocking... mainly the foot section... since I haven't seen media bags with small enough holes. I've never owned and Eclipse but from what I've seen of them on the net, the filtration is built into the top... right? You could probably use the pantyhose/stocking foot for that also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 7:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bags for Purigen media Hiya Lenny, Started using Purigen as my filter media and it's working great. Want to buy some extra bags to replace media when it gets dirty. What size bag 100 micron?, do you suggest? Do I need to buy the ones from Seachem or will any manufacturer's bag do the trick. Who do you you use for the bags? Thinking of use Purigen in my Eclipse tank but am at a loss as to how to make it work. Do you have any ideas? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1526 - Release Date: 6/30/2008 8:43 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28501	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

There is a good deal that goes into getting quality photos of fish, whether you use film or digital. Background is important. You do not want the fish to disappear into the background. You can negate background to some extent by using the f/ stop to give you a lesser depth of field. The lower the number, the less the depth of field. Your focal length also plays a role. Lighting plays another important role. If you have a built in flash that you cannot turn off, you will probably get less than ideal photos. If you have an onboard flash, you will need to shoot from an angle so that you do not get flashback or glare in the photo. If you need to shoot at an angle, you need a larger depth of field than if you are shooting straight on. You do not want the head to be in focus with a fuzzy tail. The ideal situation is to have strobes that are shooting light from the top and angling in from both sides. Dark backgrounds are best to show off the fish. A tripod is important. You need it to hold the camera steady. You observe the fish and its swimming pattern, then you set the camera up aiming at a spot the fish is likely to be, hopefully in a relatively short period of time. Focus the camera on the spot. If you have an auto-focus, as noted in another reply, it really does get in the way, so turn it off, if you can. Using a cable release is really the way to go, so you don't accidently move the camera when pressing the shutter release on the camera. It is best to use a macro lens, which is a lens that can focus on close objects. The photo tank's glass must be clean, very clean. The water should be crystal clear. No debris floating about. You will take a lot of photos before you get one you think is good enough to show others. Believe me, you'll take a lot. This is just a quick overview of what you need to do. Here are just a few links, of many, that offer advice on aquarium photography: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/photo graphy.htm TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/3bo9gs http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=153&topi c_id=4402 TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/47zkvc Just Google "aquarium photography" for more (with or without the quotes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... I have been trying to get some good pics of my own freshwater tank. I keep rainbows and want to post some pics on a forum for identification purposes... My question is: Is there a trick to getting pictures of really quick fish? Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28502	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

\\Steve// wrote a long post about taking fish pics a while back that I saved in my favorites folder. Here is the original post... http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13061 Here's another article I have in my favorites folder. http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/photography.html I hear it's best to train your fish to hold still and say "Fish Flakes"... but I've never had any luck with that. ;-) Thank God for digital cams so we can take dozens... I mean hundreds... of pics to get one good one without having to pay to develop them all like in the old days. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... I have been trying to get some good pics of my own freshwater tank. I keep rainbows and want to post some pics on a forum for identification purposes... My question is: Is there a trick to getting pictures of really quick fish? Jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1526 - Release Date: 6/30/2008 8:43 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28503	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide

Best remedy to remove hard water deposits is vinegar and elbow grease followed by a thorough rinsing of water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 10:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hydrogen Peroxide I seems to me that I remember that I read somewhere that using Hydrogen Peroxide was a good way of cleaning the filters and was harmless to fish. I have very large deposits on my filters from the hard water in my area and would like clean my filter casings from it. Is Hydrogen Peroxide a way of doing this. John In Nevada

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28504	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide

HP and salty water are good for disinfecting but I don't think they are as good for hard water mineral buildup. White vinegar will help soften and remove hard water buildup and is easily rinsed out after using. Any residual vinegar that may be missed during rinsing will not be harmful when diluted in the tank. The vinegar is actually very acidic so it starts breaking down the mineral build-up to soften it up. If you still have some really stubborn build-up after using the vinegar, then try a salt paste and a scrubby pad. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 9:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hydrogen Peroxide I seems to me that I remember that I read somewhere that using Hydrogen Peroxide was a good way of cleaning the filters and was harmless to fish. I have very large deposits on my filters from the hard water in my area and would like clean my filter casings from it. Is Hydrogen Peroxide a way of doing this. John In Nevada No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1526 - Release Date: 6/30/2008 8:43 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28505	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

I guess \\Steve// forgot he wrote that long post that I referenced in my previous post.... a mind is a terrible thing to waste! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 9:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... There is a good deal that goes into getting quality photos of fish, whether you use film or digital. Background is important. You do not want the fish to disappear into the background. You can negate background to some extent by using the f/ stop to give you a lesser depth of field. The lower the number, the less the depth of field. Your focal length also plays a role. Lighting plays another important role. If you have a built in flash that you cannot turn off, you will probably get less than ideal photos. If you have an onboard flash, you will need to shoot from an angle so that you do not get flashback or glare in the photo. If you need to shoot at an angle, you need a larger depth of field than if you are shooting straight on. You do not want the head to be in focus with a fuzzy tail. The ideal situation is to have strobes that are shooting light from the top and angling in from both sides. Dark backgrounds are best to show off the fish. A tripod is important. You need it to hold the camera steady. You observe the fish and its swimming pattern, then you set the camera up aiming at a spot the fish is likely to be, hopefully in a relatively short period of time. Focus the camera on the spot. If you have an auto-focus, as noted in another reply, it really does get in the way, so turn it off, if you can. Using a cable release is really the way to go, so you don't accidently move the camera when pressing the shutter release on the camera. It is best to use a macro lens, which is a lens that can focus on close objects. The photo tank's glass must be clean, very clean. The water should be crystal clear. No debris floating about. You will take a lot of photos before you get one you think is good enough to show others. Believe me, you'll take a lot. This is just a quick overview of what you need to do. Here are just a few links, of many, that offer advice on aquarium photography: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/photo <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/phot o> graphy.htm TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/3bo9gs <http://tinyurl.com/3bo9gs> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php> http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=153&topi <http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=153&top i> c_id=4402 TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/47zkvc <http://tinyurl.com/47zkvc> Just Google "aquarium photography" for more (with or without the quotes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... I have been trying to get some good pics of my own freshwater tank. I keep rainbows and want to post some pics on a forum for identification purposes... My question is: Is there a trick to getting pictures of really quick fish? Jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1526 - Release Date: 6/30/2008 8:43 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28506	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide

Hi John, Hydrogen peroxide is a poison to all forms of life. If you don't believe it try drinking some (not really). After all it only has one additional oxygen atom in it's composition from water. Also keep in mind that this harmless solution was the investigated cause of the sinking of a Russian submarine with all hands lost due to the Peroxide being used in torpedoes. It is used for oral hygiene but only when well diluted and not to be swallowed. If they were my fish, Vinegar seems like a much better solution. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein JOHN KD7POE wrote: > > I seems to me that I remember that I read somewhere that using > Hydrogen Peroxide was a good way of cleaning the filters and was > harmless to fish. > > I have very large deposits on my filters from the hard water in my > area and would like clean my filter casings from it. Is Hydrogen > Peroxide a way of doing this. > > John In Nevada > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28507	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

You could say he has forgotten more than most ever knew. That would be putting a good spin on it. Hey, I already got too many things to keep track of. Why should I track posts I've made? Let someone else do that. A true sign of a leader, delegation. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 11:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... I guess \\Steve// forgot he wrote that long post that I referenced in my previous post.... a mind is a terrible thing to waste! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 9:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... There is a good deal that goes into getting quality photos of fish, whether you use film or digital. Background is important. You do not want the fish to disappear into the background. You can negate background to some extent by using the f/ stop to give you a lesser depth of field. The lower the number, the less the depth of field. Your focal length also plays a role. Lighting plays another important role. If you have a built in flash that you cannot turn off, you will probably get less than ideal photos. If you have an onboard flash, you will need to shoot from an angle so that you do not get flashback or glare in the photo. If you need to shoot at an angle, you need a larger depth of field than if you are shooting straight on. You do not want the head to be in focus with a fuzzy tail. The ideal situation is to have strobes that are shooting light from the top and angling in from both sides. Dark backgrounds are best to show off the fish. A tripod is important. You need it to hold the camera steady. You observe the fish and its swimming pattern, then you set the camera up aiming at a spot the fish is likely to be, hopefully in a relatively short period of time. Focus the camera on the spot. If you have an auto-focus, as noted in another reply, it really does get in the way, so turn it off, if you can. Using a cable release is really the way to go, so you don't accidently move the camera when pressing the shutter release on the camera. It is best to use a macro lens, which is a lens that can focus on close objects. The photo tank's glass must be clean, very clean. The water should be crystal clear. No debris floating about. You will take a lot of photos before you get one you think is good enough to show others. Believe me, you'll take a lot. This is just a quick overview of what you need to do. Here are just a few links, of many, that offer advice on aquarium photography: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/photo <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/phot o> graphy.htm TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/3bo9gs <http://tinyurl.com/3bo9gs> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php> http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=153&topi <http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=153&top i> c_id=4402 TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/47zkvc <http://tinyurl.com/47zkvc> Just Google "aquarium photography" for more (with or without the quotes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... I have been trying to get some good pics of my own freshwater tank. I keep rainbows and want to post some pics on a forum for identification purposes... My question is: Is there a trick to getting pictures of really quick fish? Jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28508	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide

Sam, While I concur that vinegar is the best product for cleaning the hard water mineral build-up, I wanted to point out that Hydrogen Peroxide (HP) is not as dangerous or alarming as you implied and is often used in aquaria, ponds, etc. The kind that most people buy at their local drug store is only a 3% solution and then when mixed into the tank, it's far less of a solution. I have used 1 oz. per 10G squirted directly onto a stubborn hair algae that I had in a 10G planted tank and it killed the algae without affecting the fish, snails, etc. Of course, you don't want to squirt the HP directly onto a fish but they run whenever I'd put the turkey baster in the tank anyhow. In ponds, HP is added to ponds that are suffering from O2 depletion due to summer over-heating, pump failure, etc. HP is also the by-product of decaying barley hay which is used in ponds to help control algae buildup. As you pointed out HP's chemical composition is H2O2 so it is very similar to water but has an extra Oxygen molecule. When you see it bubbling (when treating an injury on us humans), it is basically releasing that extra Oxygen molecule during the oxidation and basically becomes distilled water... albeit still not drinkable in its "pure" (or 3% diluted) state. But after it is further diluted with lots of water, it is virtually harmless. Here are some other threads/articles about using HP in aquaria... http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hydrogen Peroxide Hi John, Hydrogen peroxide is a poison to all forms of life. If you don't believe it try drinking some (not really). After all it only has one additional oxygen atom in it's composition from water. Also keep in mind that this harmless solution was the investigated cause of the sinking of a Russian submarine with all hands lost due to the Peroxide being used in torpedoes. It is used for oral hygiene but only when well diluted and not to be swallowed. If they were my fish, Vinegar seems like a much better solution. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein JOHN KD7POE wrote: > > I seems to me that I remember that I read somewhere that using > Hydrogen Peroxide was a good way of cleaning the filters and was > harmless to fish. > > I have very large deposits on my filters from the hard water in my > area and would like clean my filter casings from it. Is Hydrogen > Peroxide a way of doing this. > > John In Nevada > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1526 - Release Date: 6/30/2008 8:43 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28509	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

LOL. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 10:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... You could say he has forgotten more than most ever knew. That would be putting a good spin on it. Hey, I already got too many things to keep track of. Why should I track posts I've made? Let someone else do that. A true sign of a leader, delegation. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 11:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... I guess \\Steve// forgot he wrote that long post that I referenced in my previous post.... a mind is a terrible thing to waste! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 9:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... There is a good deal that goes into getting quality photos of fish, whether you use film or digital. Background is important. You do not want the fish to disappear into the background. You can negate background to some extent by using the f/ stop to give you a lesser depth of field. The lower the number, the less the depth of field. Your focal length also plays a role. Lighting plays another important role. If you have a built in flash that you cannot turn off, you will probably get less than ideal photos. If you have an onboard flash, you will need to shoot from an angle so that you do not get flashback or glare in the photo. If you need to shoot at an angle, you need a larger depth of field than if you are shooting straight on. You do not want the head to be in focus with a fuzzy tail. The ideal situation is to have strobes that are shooting light from the top and angling in from both sides. Dark backgrounds are best to show off the fish. A tripod is important. You need it to hold the camera steady. You observe the fish and its swimming pattern, then you set the camera up aiming at a spot the fish is likely to be, hopefully in a relatively short period of time. Focus the camera on the spot. If you have an auto-focus, as noted in another reply, it really does get in the way, so turn it off, if you can. Using a cable release is really the way to go, so you don't accidently move the camera when pressing the shutter release on the camera. It is best to use a macro lens, which is a lens that can focus on close objects. The photo tank's glass must be clean, very clean. The water should be crystal clear. No debris floating about. You will take a lot of photos before you get one you think is good enough to show others. Believe me, you'll take a lot. This is just a quick overview of what you need to do. Here are just a few links, of many, that offer advice on aquarium photography: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/photo <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/phot o> <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/phot <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/phot > o> graphy.htm TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/3bo9gs <http://tinyurl.com/3bo9gs> <http://tinyurl.com/3bo9gs <http://tinyurl.com/3bo9gs> > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php> > http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=153&topi <http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=153&top i> <http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=153&top <http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=153&top > i> c_id=4402 TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/47zkvc <http://tinyurl.com/47zkvc> <http://tinyurl.com/47zkvc <http://tinyurl.com/47zkvc> > Just Google "aquarium photography" for more (with or without the quotes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... I have been trying to get some good pics of my own freshwater tank. I keep rainbows and want to post some pics on a forum for identification purposes... My question is: Is there a trick to getting pictures of really quick fish? Jenn No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1526 - Release Date: 6/30/2008 8:43 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28510	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

Jenn: In addition to all of those suggestions, here's one more piece of advice. If you are using a digital camera, you may have a manual setting on the lens. I have a Nikon D40 and on my lenses, I have a M for manual and an A for Auto. Check out the pictures on flickr for the Betta. That was my first attempt with the D40 and the fish....I used the manual setting on the lens and used the appature priority on the shutter. Hope you enjoy! Rob On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 8:12 PM, Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: > I have been trying to get some good pics of my own freshwater tank. I > keep rainbows and want to post some pics on a forum for identification > purposes... > > My question is: Is there a trick to getting pictures of really quick fish? > > Jenn > > > -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28511	From: L. Gove	Date: 6/30/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

try NOT using a flash... get a good BACKlight .. instead of the flash. On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > Assuming you're using a digital camera, there are a few things you can > do. > First off, digital cameras waste time focusing. Most digital cameras will > focus when you half-press the shutter button and hold it in the > half-pressed > position. You will probably hear a beep when this is done successfully. So > pick something in the tank to focus on, ideally just ahead of the fish's > path and then wait for the fish to swim by. You can also focus on the fish, > and then move the camera over to the side a bit. > > Another thing that can help is using good quality batteries (rechargeables > are my favorite, but lithiums work well if you want disposeable). Plain > alkalines will result in longer flash charge times which can cause lag > issues from when you fully depress the shutter, and longer saving times > which can prevent you from catching a good shot right after taking a dud. > > Another tactic you can try, if you don't mind a blurry background, is > moving > the camera to follow the fish after you've pressed the shutter button. This > will hopefully result in a clear pic of the fish, but blur for the > background - it takes some practice to get just right though. > > -Lana > > "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb > > On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 8:12 PM, Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...<jennhonaker1974%40yahoo.com>> > wrote: > > > I have been trying to get some good pics of my own freshwater tank. I > > keep rainbows and want to post some pics on a forum for identification > > purposes... > > > > My question is: Is there a trick to getting pictures of really quick > fish? > > > > Jenn > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28512	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

I tried both ways, and found I got better color on my bettas with a flash rather than a backlight. Then again, my backlight isn't the best - so if you can get a good backlight you'd be better off skipping the flash. -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 12:09 AM, L. Gove <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: > try NOT using a flash... get a good BACKlight .. instead of the flash. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28513	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

Most electronic cameras will let you take movies. And some of the more expensive and full featured ones have different ways to vary the shutter speed. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Lana Gibbons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... Assuming you're using a digital camera, there are a few things you can do. First off, digital cameras waste time focusing. Most digital cameras will focus when you half-press the shutter button and hold it in the half-pressed position. You will probably hear a beep when this is done successfully. So pick something in the tank to focus on, ideally just ahead of the fish's path and then wait for the fish to swim by. You can also focus on the fish, and then move the camera over to the side a bit. Another thing that can help is using good quality batteries (rechargeables are my favorite, but lithiums work well if you want disposeable). Plain alkalines will result in longer flash charge times which can cause lag issues from when you fully depress the shutter, and longer saving times which can prevent you from catching a good shot right after taking a dud. Another tactic you can try, if you don't mind a blurry background, is moving the camera to follow the fish after you've pressed the shutter button. This will hopefully result in a clear pic of the fish, but blur for the background - it takes some practice to get just right though. -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 8:12 PM, Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: > I have been trying to get some good pics of my own freshwater tank. I > keep rainbows and want to post some pics on a forum for identification > purposes... > > My question is: Is there a trick to getting pictures of really quick fish? > > Jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1526 - Release Date: 6/30/2008 8:43 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28514	From: webbcooly	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: does anyone know about freshwater pufferfish

I own a 30(us) gallon fish tank. I own 4 dwarf puffers, and much more freshwater fish that get along together. I like to breed my fish but I don't know the conditions for the puffs some breeding tips for my puffs would realy help with m fish keeping hobby!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28515	From: Mike Downey	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: Re: does anyone know about freshwater pufferfish

----- Original Message ----- From: webbcooly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] does anyone know about freshwater pufferfish I own a 30(us) gallon fish tank. I own 4 dwarf puffers, and much more freshwater fish that get along together. I like to breed my fish but I don't know the conditions for the puffs some breeding tips for my puffs would realy help with m fish keeping hobby! My wife has a trio of Dwarf Puffers in a 10 gallon tank with a trio of Dario dario. The tank has two clumps of Java moss, one in each end, and a java fern in the center rear. We use RO water and add a bit of "Discus Essentials" to 30% water changes each week. I siphon the gravel and areas around the moss, catching the water in a five gallon white plastic bucket. I set the bucket aside and check it each day for hatching fry. These I remove with a cooking baster to a 5 gallon fry tank. I feed powdered food and live micro worms. We have many little puffers and dario. The adult puffers are fed, snails, live black worms, live white worms, and frozen brine shrimp.The Dario eat all of the above. Neither species seems difficult to breed. I did find out that shrimp and scavengers drastically reduce fry production...caviar! :-) post me privately for pictures. Mike windwalkerone@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28516	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

You cannot use a steady source of bright light for your photos. The fish will become washed out because of the steady source. You need to use strobe flashes, ideally two coming from the sides above the tank, pointing into the tank and two at tank level coming in at angles to the front of the tank. When you fire the shutter, the strobes go off, and you get a nicely (hopefully) colored fish. Also, be aware that there are fish that do not photograph well no matter what you due. The blue gularis is famous for not showing its true colors in photos. Also, fish with iridescent colors do not show them, or only show hints of the iridescence in photos. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... I tried both ways, and found I got better color on my bettas with a flash rather than a backlight. Then again, my backlight isn't the best - so if you can get a good backlight you'd be better off skipping the flash. -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 12:09 AM, L. Gove <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: > try NOT using a flash... get a good BACKlight .. instead of the flash. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28517	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

Thanks Steve for clarifying that! Is photography another hobby of yours? The bettas I was having trouble getting pics of were indeed iridescent. :) Very good call on that one! -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > You cannot use a steady source of bright light for your photos. The fish > will become washed out because of the steady source. You need to use strobe > flashes, ideally two coming from the sides above the tank, pointing into the > tank and two at tank level coming in at angles to the front of the tank. > When you fire the shutter, the strobes go off, and you get a nicely > (hopefully) colored fish. Also, be aware that there are fish that do not > photograph well no matter what you due. The blue gularis is famous for not > showing its true colors in photos. Also, fish with iridescent colors do not > show them, or only show hints of the iridescence in photos. > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28518	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/1/2008
Subject: Re: Photo tips wanted...

It was, but not so much now. Working 10-16 hrs a day kind of puts a crimp in a lot of things, but I do enjoy my limited time off <g>. Before I went to slides, I developed my film and made my own prints. Now with digital stuff, you do have more control over your photos again (kind of like going from the stores to rolling your own again), and it is much less expensive looking for that perfect shot. I have a Nikon D40x right now, but I don't think that is a good choice for fish pictures--it was given as a gift--but I really have not had much time to play with it yet. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Photo tips wanted... Thanks Steve for clarifying that! Is photography another hobby of yours? The bettas I was having trouble getting pics of were indeed iridescent. :) Very good call on that one! -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > You cannot use a steady source of bright light for your photos. The fish > will become washed out because of the steady source. You need to use strobe > flashes, ideally two coming from the sides above the tank, pointing into the > tank and two at tank level coming in at angles to the front of the tank. > When you fire the shutter, the strobes go off, and you get a nicely > (hopefully) colored fish. Also, be aware that there are fish that do not > photograph well no matter what you due. The blue gularis is famous for not > showing its true colors in photos. Also, fish with iridescent colors do not > show them, or only show hints of the iridescence in photos. > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28519	From: schroedel2003	Date: 7/2/2008
Subject: dumb xinia question....

my name is jon new to the group i have a 75 gallon reef tank and a 65 gallon fresh water tank and have been doing this as a hobby for 17 years my question is i have a colony of xinia that has decided to attach itself to the tank at the water line on top how long can the xinia be without water while i change the water without hurting it any other suggestions basicly how can i change the tank water with out hurting my poor baby xinia colony. Thanks for your help Jon in Lompoc, Ca

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28520	From: AquaticLife™	Date: 7/2/2008
Subject: Fish ID?

Hello, Can somebody please identify the species on the Group Home Page? Thank you. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28521	From: Snert	Date: 7/2/2008
Subject: Re: Fish ID?

Hi everyone, I haven't responded in a long time. Health issues and just life in general. I got this message though, and went to the homepage. It looks like a type of Fairy Wrasse, but which species, I don't know. I'm sure someone else can idenitify it for you. Snert --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, AquaticLife™ <aquaticlifegroup@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > Can somebody please identify the species on the Group Home Page? > > Thank you. > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28522	From: jamesewerjr	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: my red devil

hey i just was given a very aggrisive red devil and he attacked the two algae eaters i had in the tank? what would make this fish so mean? he was alone when i got him and he was the only "fish" in the tank when i got home,what do i do? I took the other two and put them in a different tank for now. What can i do to calm her down? thanks in advance for any h elp i can get

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28523	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: Re: my red devil

Hi James, The name of the fish kind of hints at the nature of the fish in this case. What kind of Algae eaters do you have? How big is the tank? Gallons and dimensions? From your posting I cannot tell which fish inhabited the tank you have first. The cichlid or the algae eaters. If you take an aggressive species like the Red Devil and add a fish to it's territory it will defend it's territory. -Mike hey i just was given a very aggrisive red devil and he attacked the two algae eaters i had in the tank? what would make this fish so mean? he was alone when i got him and he was the only "fish" in the tank when i got home,what do i do? I took the other two and put them in a different tank for now. What can i do to calm her down? thanks in advance for any h elp i can get -----Original Message----- From: jamesewerjr <jamesewerjr@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:22 am Subject: [AquaticLife] my red devil hey i just was given a very aggrisive red devil and he attacked the two algae eaters i had in the tank? what would make this fish so mean? he was alone when i got him and he was the only "fish" in the tank when i got home,what do i do? I took the other two and put them in a different tank for now. What can i do to calm her down? thanks in advance for any h elp i can get [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28524	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: White Vinegar

I don't remember who suggested it, but to whomever did, I say:!!!!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU I had a major problem with caking on all my Filters. When I say buildup I mean buildup. My equipment all had this brownish/white caking and looked horrible. I'm sure it also cut down on the efficiency of the equipment. I put White Vinegar in a spray bottle and sprayed all my filters. Then took a tooth brush and a little elbow grease and amazing my filters look like I just took them out of the box. It was like a miracle. Thanks Again!! John in Nevada PS: My Fish also say THANKS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28525	From: Kristen Kinzer	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: Re: my red devil

Red devils are all very aggresive, that's just how they are.  There is nothing you can do to "calm her down"........I would read up about the variety to familiarize yourself with them, and keep her in that tank alone. Kristen ----- Original Message ---- From: jamesewerjr <jamesewerjr@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2008 1:22:11 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] my red devil hey i just was given a very aggrisive red devil and he attacked the two algae eaters i had in the tank? what would make this fish so mean? he was alone when i got him and he was the only "fish" in the tank when i got home,what do i do? I took the other two and put them in a different tank for now. What can i do to calm her down? thanks in advance for any h elp i can get [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28526	From: jamesewerjr	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: Re: my red devil

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Kristen Kinzer <kristen6105@...> wrote: > > Red devils are all very aggresive, that's just how they are.  There is nothing you can do to "calm her down"........I would read up about the variety to familiarize yourself with them, and keep her in that tank alone. > Kristen > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: jamesewerjr <jamesewerjr@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2008 1:22:11 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] my red devil > > > hey i just was given a very aggrisive red devil and he attacked the two > algae eaters i had in the tank? what would make this fish so mean? he > was alone when i got him and he was the only "fish" in the tank when i > got home,what do i do? I took the other two and put them in a different > tank for now. What can i do to calm her down? thanks in advance for any > h elp i can get > > > i have been reading all day on this i have already decided to leave her alone. The tank she is in should be large enough for her. thank you for the advice....james > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28527	From: jamesewerjr	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: Re: my red devil

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi James, > > The name of the fish kind of hints at the nature of the fish in this case. > > What kind of Algae eaters do you have? > How big is the tank? Gallons and dimensions? > > From your posting I cannot tell which fish inhabited the tank you have first. The cichlid or the algae eaters. > > If you take an aggressive species like the Red Devil and add a fish to it's territory it will defend it's territory. > > -Mike > > > hey i just was given a very aggrisive red devil and he attacked the two > algae eaters i had in the tank? what would make this fish so mean? he > was alone when i got him and he was the only "fish" in the tank when i > got home,what do i do? I took the other two and put them in a different > tank for now. What can i do to calm her down? thanks in advance for any > h elp i can get > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jamesewerjr <jamesewerjr@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:22 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] my red devil > > > > > > > hey i just was given a very aggrisive red devil and he attacked the two > algae eaters i had in the tank? what would make this fish so mean? he > was alone when i got him and he was the only "fish" in the tank when i > got home,what do i do? I took the other two and put them in a different > tank for now. What can i do to calm her down? thanks in advance for any > h elp i can get > > yea i figured out the name fits...lol. I had the eaters in there first and took out the other fish before i even went and got the devil. The tank is about 29 gallons or so the other one i have is 55gallons and has other fish in it so i have no more room. I rescued this fish from a friend who had it in a smaller tank and said the fish was to mean he did not know what to do with it ....so i took it theanks for your help...james > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28528	From: Blue fish	Date: 7/3/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40415A5C414B425A445146445A515F4A ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28529	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: watering trough for goldfish

I do not remember which group it was but someone was talking about using stock watering troughs fort their goldfish. Well I have some photos to share. I have also uploaded them to the Pondkeepers Yahoo page under Ricks container watergarden Cheers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28530	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: HELP! cycle an aquarium

If I transfer gravel, filters, plants, water and some of my fish to a new aquarium would I still have to cycle the new tank??

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28531	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

I would think only if the new tank is bigger than the old tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: turbocoupe76 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! cycle an aquarium If I transfer gravel, filters, plants, water and some of my fish to a new aquarium would I still have to cycle the new tank?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1533 - Release Date: 7/3/2008 7:19 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28532	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

The overwhelming majority of your good nitrifying bacteria live in the filter media (which would include the gravel if you have a UGF). That is the main thing you want to preserve... the filter media. Of course, the N-bacteria also live on all other surface areas of a tank so the plants, decorations, etc., also have some growing on them. The N-bacteria do not really live in the water column except during a possible bloom during a new tank cycle. The main reason for using the "old" water is to maintain similar water parameters so you do not shock the fish with a drastic change in their water. If you do not have a UGF filter system and do not want to keep the old gravel, then you would not have to as long as you preserve the filter media in your currently fully cycled filter system. Do a search in the group for 'cloning a tank' and you'll likely find several of my and others previous posts for more details. After doing the cloning, you should still check your water parameters daily to make sure nothing went wrong. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! cycle an aquarium If I transfer gravel, filters, plants, water and some of my fish to a new aquarium would I still have to cycle the new tank?? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.135 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1533 - Release Date: 7/3/2008 7:19 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28533	From: Karen	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: non profit group looking for volunteers.

Hello, This is my first post since i have joined this group, but I have been a memeber for a while now. you all seem very educated at taking care of aquatic animals of all sizes. I have started a non profit charitale group by the name of : the Maritime Aquatic Institute of the Atlantic Association, Our mandate is to create a proposal to build a 100,000+ Gallon Aquarium on the site formally known as Shannon Park. I have alot of information reguarding this but not much direction, I am looking for volunteers that can give me any input and people who are willing to take this journey with me and my other associates,i thought that one of the first places I would try would be with people who simply love aquatic animals and who would like to see different spiecies be preserved. If this fits you please contact me, Karen Briand at The_MAI_of_the_Atlantic@... Thank you all in advance. Karen

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28534	From: L. Gove	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: Re: non profit group looking for volunteers.

Ooooo that sounds fun! where are u? On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Karen <karen_briand@...> wrote: > Hello, This is my first post since i have joined this group, but I have > been a memeber for a while now. you all seem very educated at taking > care of aquatic animals of all sizes. > > I have started a non profit charitale group by the name of : the > Maritime Aquatic Institute of the Atlantic Association, Our mandate is > to create a proposal to build a 100,000+ Gallon Aquarium on the site > formally known as Shannon Park. I have alot of information reguarding > this but not much direction, I am looking for volunteers that can give > me any input and people who are willing to take this journey with me > and my other associates,i thought that one of the first places I would > try would be with people who simply love aquatic animals and who would > like to see different spiecies be preserved. If this fits you please > contact me, > Karen Briand at > The_MAI_of_the_Atlantic@... <The_MAI_of_the_Atlantic%40yahoo.ca> > Thank you all in advance. > Karen > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... http://www.icraft.ca/dark_moon_crafts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28535	From: corpobtn	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: Eels from Philippines

If there is anybody who is interested to buy pencil-size (fingerling) eels from the Philippines, just let me know thru this e-mail or cellphone no. 09195015443 Danny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28536	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 7/4/2008
Subject: bio filter redux

Today we tore apart our biofilter. The plants have overun it and the water flow was horrble. We found a preformed piece for barrels that was very deep with a spill over lip. 1.. Positioned the container at one of our container water garden. 2.. Now will need a black 20' tube 1/2" diameter. What we did is form a U but at the bottom part of the U coil it up some. 3.. Now you need to puncture holes in the tube. Mark or keep track of where you want to start and end. Figure this much that will be under the gravel. 4.. Once you have punched the holes in the tube cap one end. 5.. Fill up with gravel 3/4 of the way. 6.. Place your plants in place. We added some rooted plants and some floaters since there is a lip on the overflow that will keep them from returning back to the pond. The plants will absorb the nutrients from the waste products of the fish. The way we set up last year, there was so much nutrients in the water that the Creeping Jenny went crazy and nearly took over the biological filter. 7.. Fill the rest of the gravel in. 8.. Let the pump fill the biological filter up. You can help it along with adding water to it. 9.. Add decholoration. 10.. We added Microbelift to the pond that will help seed the biological filter with the bacteria needed. 11.. Depending on the depth of gravel in the biological filter you could not some msquitto fish or Heteranda Fermose in there to keep the misquittos away. Now your all set. The cap on the end will force the water fvrom the pump in your pond to come out the holes. The water coming from the holes will release into the gravel and fill up till it spills out back into the pond. We have a pump in the pond that is connected to the black tube mentioned in #2. We have already notice a huge difference. Our fish are more active~ They come up to where the water returns from the biologlical filter. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28537	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

While the transfer of your present filters in the same environment (water) of your previous tank will go a long way in preserving much of your nitrifying bacteria, you will still find that you are going to experience at least a mini-cycle, and should be aware of this. As Lenny said, if you are presently using a UGF (under gravel filter), there will be addition colonies of these bacteria throughout the gravel, but otherwise, this bacteria will only be growing on the substrate surface for the most part -- which will get buried when you transfer this gravel to the new tank. Too, depending upon how long you've had your present tank set up, almost invariably you will find at least some degree of dirt and debris settled in the strata of your gravel which will need to be cleaned (use only aquarium water). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > If I transfer gravel, filters, plants, water and some of my fish to a > new aquarium would I still have to cycle the new tank?? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28538	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

Ray, what's the "substrate surface" of the gravel? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 7:41 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium While the transfer of your present filters in the same environment (water) of your previous tank will go a long way in preserving much of your nitrifying bacteria, you will still find that you are going to experience at least a mini-cycle, and should be aware of this. As Lenny said, if you are presently using a UGF (under gravel filter), there will be addition colonies of these bacteria throughout the gravel, but otherwise, this bacteria will only be growing on the substrate surface for the most part -- which will get buried when you transfer this gravel to the new tank. Too, depending upon how long you've had your present tank set up, almost invariably you will find at least some degree of dirt and debris settled in the strata of your gravel which will need to be cleaned (use only aquarium water). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ": 7/4/2008 5:03 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28539	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

The substrate is the gravel (or sand, or eco-complete, etc.), its that medium which we put in the bottom of the aquarium in which to root our aquatic plants. The surface of anything is that portion of a substance that is exposed to another substance, i.e., the surface of water (as in a lake) is the portion which is exposed to air. The surface of a submerged rock is that part which is exposed to water. The surface of the ground (as in a lawn or garden, etc.) is also that portion that meets the air. Most often, the surface of anything (especially a solid) enables us to see it as it reflects light, however the surface of a buried gemstone, such as a diamond, cannot be seen even though its still this substance's most outer portion. Any other portion of a substance constitutes its mass; that is, the portion of a substance that is beneath its surface represents all the molecules that exist beneath its surface -- its what the substance is made of -- its 3rd dimension. Anything tangible in this world has three dimensions; Two dimensions of an object only represent a virtual copy of the real thing. The substrate surface then is that portion that is readily seen where it is exposed to the water; at the very top of it, as this material is heavier than water and will be found underneath the stratum of water that is found lying over it. As this surface is rough, in varying degrees depending on the coarseness of the gravel particals, this surface extends to the sides of the individual gravel particals that are observed at its surface. Nitrifying bacteria will extend down into this rough uppermost layer of the surface, only as far as there is sufficient oxygen for it to survive. Even though there will still be spaces between the particles beneath this, there is no water circulation to replenish the oxygen at lower levels, rendering the remainder of the substrate uninhabitable to these aerobic bacteria. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Ray, what's the "substrate surface" of the gravel? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 7:41 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium > > > While the transfer of your present filters in the same environment > (water) of your previous tank will go a long way in preserving much of > your nitrifying bacteria, you will still find that you are going to > experience at least a mini-cycle, and should be aware of this. As > Lenny said, if you are presently using a UGF (under gravel filter), > there will be addition colonies of these bacteria throughout the > gravel, but otherwise, this bacteria will only be growing on the > substrate surface for the most part -- which will get buried when you > transfer this gravel to the new tank. Too, depending upon how long > you've had your present tank set up, almost invariably you will find at > least some degree of dirt and debris settled in the strata of your > gravel which will need to be cleaned (use only aquarium water). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ": 7/4/2008 5:03 PM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28540	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

So the substrate of the gravel in an aquarium is the top surface of the gravel? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 2:36 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium The substrate is the gravel (or sand, or eco-complete, etc.), its that medium which we put in the bottom of the aquarium in which to root our aquatic plants. The surface of anything is that portion of a substance that is exposed to another substance, i.e., the surface of water (as in a lake) is the portion which is exposed to air. The surface of a submerged rock is that part which is exposed to water. The surface of the ground (as in a lawn or garden, etc.) is also that portion that meets the air. Most often, the surface of anything (especially a solid) enables us to see it as it reflects light, however the surface of a buried gemstone, such as a diamond, cannot be seen even though its still this substance's most outer portion. Any other portion of a substance constitutes its mass; that is, the portion of a substance that is beneath its surface represents all the molecules that exist beneath its surface -- its what the substance is made of -- its 3rd dimension. Anything tangible in this world has three dimensions; Two dimensions of an object only represent a virtual copy of the real thing. The substrate surface then is that portion that is readily seen where it is exposed to the water; at the very top of it, as this material is heavier than water and will be found underneath the stratum of water that is found lying over it. As this surface is rough, in varying degrees depending on the coarseness of the gravel particals, this surface extends to the sides of the individual gravel particals that are observed at its surface. Nitrifying bacteria will extend down into this rough uppermost layer of the surface, only as far as there is sufficient oxygen for it to survive. Even though there will still be spaces between the particles beneath this, there is no water circulation to replenish the oxygen at lower levels, rendering the remainder of the substrate uninhabitable to these aerobic bacteria. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Ray, what's the "substrate surface" of the gravel? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 7:41 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium > > > While the transfer of your present filters in the same environment > (water) of your previous tank will go a long way in preserving much of > your nitrifying bacteria, you will still find that you are going to > experience at least a mini-cycle, and should be aware of this. As > Lenny said, if you are presently using a UGF (under gravel filter), > there will be addition colonies of these bacteria throughout the > gravel, but otherwise, this bacteria will only be growing on the > substrate surface for the most part -- which will get buried when you > transfer this gravel to the new tank. Too, depending upon how long > you've had your present tank set up, almost invariably you will find at > least some degree of dirt and debris settled in the strata of your > gravel which will need to be cleaned (use only aquarium water). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ": 7/4/2008 5:03 PM > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1536 - Release Date: 7/5/2008 10:15 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28541	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

The substrate IS the gravel. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > So the substrate of the gravel in an aquarium is the top surface of the gravel? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 2:36 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium > > > The substrate is the gravel (or sand, or eco-complete, etc.), its > that medium which we put in the bottom of the aquarium in which to > root our aquatic plants. The surface of anything is that portion of > a substance that is exposed to another substance, i.e., the surface > of water (as in a lake) is the portion which is exposed to air. The > surface of a submerged rock is that part which is exposed to water. > The surface of the ground (as in a lawn or garden, etc.) is also that > portion that meets the air. Most often, the surface of anything > (especially a solid) enables us to see it as it reflects light, > however the surface of a buried gemstone, such as a diamond, cannot > be seen even though its still this substance's most outer portion. > Any other portion of a substance constitutes its mass; that is, the > portion of a substance that is beneath its surface represents all the > molecules that exist beneath its surface -- its what the substance is > made of -- its 3rd dimension. Anything tangible in this world has > three dimensions; Two dimensions of an object only represent a > virtual copy of the real thing. The substrate surface then is that > portion that is readily seen where it is exposed to the water; at the > very top of it, as this material is heavier than water and will be > found underneath the stratum of water that is found lying over it. > As this surface is rough, in varying degrees depending on the > coarseness of the gravel particals, this surface extends to the sides > of the individual gravel particals that are observed at its surface. > Nitrifying bacteria will extend down into this rough uppermost layer > of the surface, only as far as there is sufficient oxygen for it to > survive. Even though there will still be spaces between the > particles beneath this, there is no water circulation to replenish > the oxygen at lower levels, rendering the remainder of the substrate > uninhabitable to these aerobic bacteria. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > Ray, what's the "substrate surface" of the gravel? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 7:41 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium > > > > > > While the transfer of your present filters in the same environment > > (water) of your previous tank will go a long way in preserving much > of > > your nitrifying bacteria, you will still find that you are going to > > experience at least a mini-cycle, and should be aware of this. As > > Lenny said, if you are presently using a UGF (under gravel filter), > > there will be addition colonies of these bacteria throughout the > > gravel, but otherwise, this bacteria will only be growing on the > > substrate surface for the most part -- which will get buried when > you > > transfer this gravel to the new tank. Too, depending upon how long > > you've had your present tank set up, almost invariably you will > find at > > least some degree of dirt and debris settled in the strata of your > > gravel which will need to be cleaned (use only aquarium water). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ": 7/4/2008 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1536 - Release Date: 7/5/2008 10:15 AM > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28542	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: non profit group looking for volunteers.

Send me more info. This sounds like fun. Red Oak In a message dated 7/4/2008 9:58:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, karen_briand@... writes: Hello, This is my first post since i have joined this group, but I have been a memeber for a while now. you all seem very educated at taking care of aquatic animals of all sizes. I have started a non profit charitale group by the name of : the Maritime Aquatic Institute of the Atlantic Association, Our mandate is to create a proposal to build a 100,000+ Gallon Aquarium on the site formally known as Shannon Park. I have alot of information reguarding this but not much direction, I am looking for volunteers that can give me any input and people who are willing to take this journey with me and my other associates,i thought that one of the first places I would try would be with people who simply love aquatic animals and who would like to see different spiecies be preserved. If this fits you please contact me, Karen Briand at _The_MAI_of_the_The_MAI_oThe_MAI__ (mailto:The_MAI_of_the_Atlantic@...) Thank you all in advance. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28543	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/5/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

I think Scooby-Doo would be saying "Ruhh?". LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 2:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium The substrate is the gravel (or sand, or eco-complete, etc.), its that medium which we put in the bottom of the aquarium in which to root our aquatic plants. The surface of anything is that portion of a substance that is exposed to another substance, i.e., the surface of water (as in a lake) is the portion which is exposed to air. The surface of a submerged rock is that part which is exposed to water. The surface of the ground (as in a lawn or garden, etc.) is also that portion that meets the air. Most often, the surface of anything (especially a solid) enables us to see it as it reflects light, however the surface of a buried gemstone, such as a diamond, cannot be seen even though its still this substance's most outer portion. Any other portion of a substance constitutes its mass; that is, the portion of a substance that is beneath its surface represents all the molecules that exist beneath its surface -- its what the substance is made of -- its 3rd dimension. Anything tangible in this world has three dimensions; Two dimensions of an object only represent a virtual copy of the real thing. The substrate surface then is that portion that is readily seen where it is exposed to the water; at the very top of it, as this material is heavier than water and will be found underneath the stratum of water that is found lying over it. As this surface is rough, in varying degrees depending on the coarseness of the gravel particals, this surface extends to the sides of the individual gravel particals that are observed at its surface. Nitrifying bacteria will extend down into this rough uppermost layer of the surface, only as far as there is sufficient oxygen for it to survive. Even though there will still be spaces between the particles beneath this, there is no water circulation to replenish the oxygen at lower levels, rendering the remainder of the substrate uninhabitable to these aerobic bacteria. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Ray, what's the "substrate surface" of the gravel? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 7:41 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium > > > While the transfer of your present filters in the same environment > (water) of your previous tank will go a long way in preserving much of > your nitrifying bacteria, you will still find that you are going to > experience at least a mini-cycle, and should be aware of this. As > Lenny said, if you are presently using a UGF (under gravel filter), > there will be addition colonies of these bacteria throughout the > gravel, but otherwise, this bacteria will only be growing on the > substrate surface for the most part -- which will get buried when you > transfer this gravel to the new tank. Too, depending upon how long > you've had your present tank set up, almost invariably you will find at > least some degree of dirt and debris settled in the strata of your > gravel which will need to be cleaned (use only aquarium water). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , ": 7/4/2008 5:03 PM > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1536 - Release Date: 7/5/2008 10:15 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28544	From: Jack Collora	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: no profit group looking for volunteers.

sounds cool i dont have much personal experiance (to my greatest dislike) but their was a guy who did it before with an only 50k in his back yard. go to monster fish tanks.com. ive been studying architeccture of tanks and you would need a formula for the glass with. theirs probly a simple formula that slips my mi d. anothjer thing is the need for a silicon strong enough to hold it. another simple formula but if your not confident with your own calculations you can give it to a profesional one and have him check it over.. after that is the real fun part making it actually viewablue. now for that you can do several things. you could make the tanks center around the center make a tunnel gooing rite through. or the american way of seeing only through one wall. if you relly w  ant the kind of help i think you want then an architect.(or the monster fish tank guy) . if you want stocking ideas im still not sure but look on liveaquari.com they ahve a monster fish section it has 5 fish that are gient :) (plz escuse the spelling my computers mesing up  and blockign my sight.) hope you have fun with this project. --- On Sat, 7/5/08, sharden47@... <sharden47@...> wrote: From: sharden47@... <sharden47@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] non profit group looking for volunteers. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 7:12 PM Send me more info. This sounds like fun. Red Oak In a message dated 7/4/2008 9:58:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, karen_briand@ yahoo.ca writes: Hello, This is my first post since i have joined this group, but I have been a memeber for a while now. you all seem very educated at taking care of aquatic animals of all sizes. I have started a non profit charitale group by the name of : the Maritime Aquatic Institute of the Atlantic Association, Our mandate is to create a proposal to build a 100,000+ Gallon Aquarium on the site formally known as Shannon Park. I have alot of information reguarding this but not much direction, I am looking for volunteers that can give me any input and people who are willing to take this journey with me and my other associates,i thought that one of the first places I would try would be with people who simply love aquatic animals and who would like to see different spiecies be preserved. If this fits you please contact me, Karen Briand at _The_MAI_of_ the_The_MAI_ oThe_MAI_ _ (mailto:The_MAI_of_the_ Atlantic@ yahoo.ca) Thank you all in advance. Karen .. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28545	From: pacenme	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Temporary housing??

I currently house my Oscar in my 55gal tank in my kitchen. Well we are redoing our floors on Tuesday and have already begun to rip up the old floors. My question is when I dismantle his tank what should I put him in? Will a 40 gal rubbermaid tub work or will that bow? If I were to do that do you think I could leave him in there for a day if my OTB filter will fit on the side? I don't think I would be able to put my canister on cause the rubbermaid would be on the hallway floor and at the same level with the canister. What should I do? I was hoping to dismantle his tank Mon evening and hopefully get his tank back up and running Tues evening?? Thanx

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28546	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Temporary housing??

The Rubbermaid tub should be fine for temporary quarters. You can use your canister filter as well. Be sure to have some sort of covering for the tub, so the oscar does not take a leap out to find out what is going on around him--they can be very curious fish. Anything you use to cover the tub should be weighted down so he cannot nudge it out of the way. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pacenme Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 10:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Temporary housing?? I currently house my Oscar in my 55gal tank in my kitchen. Well we are redoing our floors on Tuesday and have already begun to rip up the old floors. My question is when I dismantle his tank what should I put him in? Will a 40 gal rubbermaid tub work or will that bow? If I were to do that do you think I could leave him in there for a day if my OTB filter will fit on the side? I don't think I would be able to put my canister on cause the rubbermaid would be on the hallway floor and at the same level with the canister. What should I do? I was hoping to dismantle his tank Mon evening and hopefully get his tank back up and running Tues evening?? Thanx

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28547	From: Paula Brown	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Plant Question

I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have bought in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a small green bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are still alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am wondering if maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the banana type things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in the gravel and still they are not doing anything. I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of growing they are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide a photo but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28548	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: pH change

This week I was out of town for three days over the holiday and decided to leave my fish without feed.  When I returned home Saturday night all of the fish looked well and ate normally.  I did a pH check on the water and it had gone from 7.4 (usual) to 7.9.  This is in a 90 gal tank with 8 gourami, 3 cory and 2 otto.  I did a PWC this morning and checked the pH 2 hours afterwords and the pH was 7.4.  Does anyone have an idea as to why the pH was up after going without feed for 3 days?  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28549	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

Sounds like you got some banana plants as hitchhikers. Take a look here: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=747+892+791&pcatid =791 to start. TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw You might want to Google it, but use the scientific name of Nymphoides aquatica to knock out all the banana tree references (unless, of course, you have a year round sun porch and want to raise those as well for your cereal in the morning). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:32 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Question I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have bought in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a small green bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are still alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am wondering if maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the banana type things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in the gravel and still they are not doing anything. I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of growing they are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide a photo but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28550	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: pH change

It all depends on your starting baseline and then the ecology of the tank will affect the pH after that. The "normal" ecology of a tank will ALWAYS lower the pH over time. If you have rocks that leach calcium carbonate and/or other minerals, this can keep the pH stable or raise it.. or if you actually add your own KH booster like baking soda to help raise and stabilize the pH. Your fishes poop (breaks down and releases carbonic acid among other things), pee (acidic) and the bacteria that handle nitrification and other biological issues in the tank will usually use up KH and other trace elements which causes the pH to go down. Doing PWC's is what removes the pollution and also replaces the trace elements. In your case, it would seem that you either have something in the tank that is leaching a little hardness or something basic (opposite of acidic) that is raising the pH or it could be your baseline of the tank is higher than 7.4 and when you didn't feed them for several days, the buffers in the water was able to buffer the water back up a little. Thinks like keeping the gravel clean and the filters cleaned regularly will also keep the pH more stable since you won't have as much decaying detritus/mulm that would lower the pH as it decays. Last but not least, the time when you check the pH can be a factor if your tank has plants or lots of algae. During the day (lights on), the plants are using up a lot of the available CO2 during photosynthesis and as the CO2 goes down, the pH will rise. If you check a planted tank (or a tank with lots of algae) after the lights have been on all day, the pH will be higher than if you check it in the morning before you turn on the lights. After being dark all night, the CO2 level will have risen which will have lowered the pH. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH change This week I was out of town for three days over the holiday and decided to leave my fish without feed. When I returned home Saturday night all of the fish looked well and ate normally. I did a pH check on the water and it had gone from 7.4 (usual) to 7.9. This is in a 90 gal tank with 8 gourami, 3 cory and 2 otto. I did a PWC this morning and checked the pH 2 hours afterwords and the pH was 7.4. Does anyone have an idea as to why the pH was up after going without feed for 3 days? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28551	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

Yep... now all you need is some Sea-Monkeys http://www.sea-monkeys.com/ for your tank. I bet they'll like those underwater bananas. LOL Just kidding! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question Sounds like you got some banana plants as hitchhikers. Take a look here: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=747+892+791&pcatid <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=747+892+791&pcati d> =791 to start. TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> You might want to Google it, but use the scientific name of Nymphoides aquatica to knock out all the banana tree references (unless, of course, you have a year round sun porch and want to raise those as well for your cereal in the morning). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:32 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Question I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have bought in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a small green bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are still alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am wondering if maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the banana type things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in the gravel and still they are not doing anything. I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of growing they are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide a photo but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28552	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: pH change

First thing I always do when the ph is unexpectedly high is rinse the tube with water from the tank, shake the test solution (again), and repeat the test, and it's always alot closer to what I expect. Water here is very alkaline, so if maybe some small amoun tis in the test tube from rinsing it out, or I didn't shake the reagent bottle properly, that could affect the results. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmy McHaney To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:16 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] pH change This week I was out of town for three days over the holiday and decided to leave my fish without feed. When I returned home Saturday night all of the fish looked well and ate normally. I did a pH check on the water and it had gone from 7.4 (usual) to 7.9. This is in a 90 gal tank with 8 gourami, 3 cory and 2 otto. I did a PWC this morning and checked the pH 2 hours afterwords and the pH was 7.4. Does anyone have an idea as to why the pH was up after going without feed for 3 days? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28553	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

Question. Now, I know you were kidding, but - won't the fish eat the sea monkeys? I'm curious because I'm having trouble raising brine shrimp, and I had thought about getting some sea monkeys just to get the hang of it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 3:06 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question Yep... now all you need is some Sea-Monkeys http://www.sea-monkeys.com/ for your tank. I bet they'll like those underwater bananas. LOL Just kidding! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question Sounds like you got some banana plants as hitchhikers. Take a look here: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=747+892+791&pcatid <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=747+892+791&pcati d> =791 to start. TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> You might want to Google it, but use the scientific name of Nymphoides aquatica to knock out all the banana tree references (unless, of course, you have a year round sun porch and want to raise those as well for your cereal in the morning). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:32 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Question I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have bought in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a small green bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are still alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am wondering if maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the banana type things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in the gravel and still they are not doing anything. I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of growing they are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide a photo but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28554	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

Won't sea monkeys swing from plant to plant (especially banana plants)? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Question. Now, I know you were kidding, but - won't the fish eat the sea > monkeys? > > I'm curious because I'm having trouble raising brine shrimp, and I had > thought about getting some sea monkeys just to get the hang of it. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 3:06 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > > Yep... now all you need is some Sea-Monkeys http://www.sea- monkeys.com/ for > your tank. I bet they'll like those underwater bananas. LOL Just > kidding! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > Sounds like you got some banana plants as hitchhikers. Take a look here: > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm? c=747+892+791&pcatid > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm? c=747+892+791&pcati > d> > =791 to start. > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw > <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> > > You might want to Google it, but use the scientific name of Nymphoides > aquatica to knock out all the banana tree references (unless, of course, you > have a year round sun porch and want to raise those as well for your cereal > in the morning). > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Paula Brown > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:32 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have bought > in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a small green > bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are still > alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am wondering if > maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the banana type > things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in the gravel > and still they are not doing anything. > > I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of growing they > are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just > wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add > Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide a photo > but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 > 5:26 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 > 5:26 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28555	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Another question.. Center Braces

I was just given an old 55 gallon aquarium. I think its old because it was not manufactured with a center brace on the top or bottom. I can't find a manufacturer name on it. The braces did not break off nor were they taken off. Its also made with very thick glass, a little bit bigger that 3/8". My two current 55 tanks have glass thats alot thinner but both have the braces on the top and bottom (both made by AllGlass). The owner said she had it in her living room for 7 years, but had it stored in the garage for a year. I currently have it in the garage filled with water to check for leaks. So far none but the glass is bowed in the middle about 3/4". Should I make a braces for it to be on the safe side or is this how the tank was made??

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28556	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: pH change

I always rinse the tube and cap with aquarium water before filling it for testing.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2008 4:53:05 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH change First thing I always do when the ph is unexpectedly high is rinse the tube with water from the tank, shake the test solution (again), and repeat the test, and it's always alot closer to what I expect. Water here is very alkaline, so if maybe some small amoun tis in the test tube from rinsing it out, or I didn't shake the reagent bottle properly, that could affect the results. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmy McHaney To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:16 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] pH change This week I was out of town for three days over the holiday and decided to leave my fish without feed. When I returned home Saturday night all of the fish looked well and ate normally. I did a pH check on the water and it had gone from 7.4 (usual) to 7.9. This is in a 90 gal tank with 8 gourami, 3 cory and 2 otto. I did a PWC this morning and checked the pH 2 hours afterwords and the pH was 7.4. Does anyone have an idea as to why the pH was up after going without feed for 3 days? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG.. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28557	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

Thanks everyone for your help! I am going to go forth and try it. Let me explain in detail what I plan on doing. I have several fishtanks: (2) 55 gallon (3) 20 gallons (3) 10 gallons. Along with the smaller tanks I was given H.O.T filters and accessories. The 55 gallon is my established tank and so is one of the 20 gallons. All others are empty. The 55 is running a Penguin 350 with filter media along with cut up Aquaclear bio sponges stuffed inside, An Aquatech filter made for a 10 gallon with no filter media (I stuffed it with just the Aquaclear bio sponges), A small in tank bubbler filter with just AC bio sponges and no media. This tank has (1) 3" Angel fish, (3)Swordtails (3)Glofish and (3) Cherry Barbs The 20 Gallon has a Penguin 100 hot w/ filter media andI added bio sponges along with an Aqueon hot made for a ten gallon with just sponges This tank only has 1 Goldfish about 3" long I was planning on moving everyone to the smaller tanks (the goldfish is staying in the 20) and make room for Cichlids in one of the 55s. I would use the already established aquaclear sponges and filters for the small tanks. I would also like to try my hand is saltwater in the other 55. Problem is the cichlids are coming very soon next week (brother is moving and taking down his 55) and didnt want to wait for a cycle and possible harm them. The other 55 has a small leak so that one wont be up and running soon enough. Just thought you guys would like to know exactly what I planned on and why. Thanks again everyone. Tom

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28558	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: pH change

None of the things you mentioned seem to apply in this case.� The pH is always stable at 7.4 without any stabilizing agents.� The aquarium gets a PWC every week with very good gravel cleaning.� There are no live plants in the tank.� It has very little algae.� The canister filter was cleaned on Tuesday.� The only difference from usual is that I tested the pH late in the afternoon instead of the morning as usual.� I'll test it late in the afternoon again to see if it is elevated again.� Regardless all of the fish seem to tolerate the pH shift without complications. �Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2008 3:02:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH change It all depends on your starting baseline and then the ecology of the tank will affect the pH after that.� The "normal" ecology of a tank will ALWAYS lower the pH over time.� If you have rocks that leach calcium carbonate and/or other minerals, this can keep the pH stable or raise it.. or if you actually add your own KH booster like baking soda to help raise and stabilize the pH.� Your fishes poop (breaks down and releases carbonic acid among other things), pee (acidic) and the bacteria that handle nitrification and other biological issues in the tank will usually use up KH and other trace elements which causes the pH to go down.� Doing PWC's is what removes the pollution and also replaces the trace elements. In your case, it would seem that you either have something in the tank that is leaching a little hardness or something basic (opposite of acidic) that is raising the pH or it could be your baseline of the tank is higher than 7.4 and when you didn't feed them for several days, the buffers in the water was able to buffer the water back up a little. Thinks like keeping the gravel clean and the filters cleaned regularly will also keep the pH more stable since you won't have as much decaying detritus/mulm that would lower the pH as it decays. Last but not least, the time when you check the pH can be a factor if your tank has plants or lots of algae.� During the day (lights on), the plants are using up a lot of the available CO2 during photosynthesis and as the CO2 goes down, the pH will rise.� If you check a planted tank (or a tank with lots of algae) after the lights have been on all day, the pH will be higher than if you check it in the morning before you turn on the lights.� After being dark all night, the CO2 level will have risen which will have lowered the pH. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH change This week I was out of town for three days over the holiday and decided to leave my fish without feed.� When I returned home Saturday night all of the fish looked well and ate normally.� I did a pH check on the water and it had gone from 7.4 (usual) to 7.9.� This is in a 90 gal tank with 8 gourami, 3 cory and 2 otto.� I did a PWC this morning and checked the pH 2 hours afterwords and the pH was 7.4.� Does anyone have an idea as to why the pH was up after going without feed for 3 days? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>..���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , ..���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

If you can't raise brine shrimp, they you won't be able to raise Sea-Monkeys either... since they're one and the same. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 4:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Question Question. Now, I know you were kidding, but - won't the fish eat the sea monkeys? I'm curious because I'm having trouble raising brine shrimp, and I had thought about getting some sea monkeys just to get the hang of it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 3:06 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question Yep... now all you need is some Sea-Monkeys http://www.sea-monkeys.com/ for your tank. I bet they'll like those underwater bananas. LOL Just kidding! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question Sounds like you got some banana plants as hitchhikers. Take a look here: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=747+892+791&pcatid <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=747+892+791&pcati d> =791 to start. TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> You might want to Google it, but use the scientific name of Nymphoides aquatica to knock out all the banana tree references (unless, of course, you have a year round sun porch and want to raise those as well for your cereal in the morning). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:32 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Question I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have bought in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a small green bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are still alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am wondering if maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the banana type things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in the gravel and still they are not doing anything. I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of growing they are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide a photo but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28560	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

The worst thing is when they start tossing fish feces out the tank at people. Yep.. you can tell it's a Sunday! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 7:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Question Won't sea monkeys swing from plant to plant (especially banana plants)? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Question. Now, I know you were kidding, but - won't the fish eat the sea > monkeys? > > I'm curious because I'm having trouble raising brine shrimp, and I had > thought about getting some sea monkeys just to get the hang of it. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 3:06 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > > Yep... now all you need is some Sea-Monkeys http://www.sea- monkeys.com/ for > your tank. I bet they'll like those underwater bananas. LOL Just > kidding! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > Sounds like you got some banana plants as hitchhikers. Take a look here: > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm? > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?> c=747+892+791&pcatid > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm? > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?> c=747+892+791&pcati > d> > =791 to start. > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw > <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw > <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> > > > You might want to Google it, but use the scientific name of Nymphoides > aquatica to knock out all the banana tree references (unless, of course, you > have a year round sun porch and want to raise those as well for your cereal > in the morning). > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Paula Brown > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:32 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have bought > in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a small green > bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are still > alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am wondering if > maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the banana type > things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in the gravel > and still they are not doing anything. > > I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of growing they > are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just > wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add > Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide a photo > but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28561	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces

As you saw, the main reason for the center braces was due to the use of thinner, lighter glass as the thinner glass would bow out several inches without a center brace. It wouldn't hurt to fashion your own brace. A strip of plexiglass and some epoxy would work. Or you could do it the red-neck way and use duct tape! ;-) (I can make fun of red-necks since I'm from the south! Don't you yankees try it though! :-D) I would worry more about the front and back sides being supported, rather than the bottom since the bottom doesn't really get any wear and tear like the top does when doing tank maintenance. It might not hurt to put a thin piece of dense foam or wood cut to fit inside of the frame edges before putting the tank on it's stand. If the stand has a solid top, you don't have much to worry about but if you have an iron stand with an open top, then you might want to support it with wood on the top of the stand first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 8:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Another question.. Center Braces I was just given an old 55 gallon aquarium. I think its old because it was not manufactured with a center brace on the top or bottom. I can't find a manufacturer name on it. The braces did not break off nor were they taken off. Its also made with very thick glass, a little bit bigger that 3/8". My two current 55 tanks have glass thats alot thinner but both have the braces on the top and bottom (both made by AllGlass). The owner said she had it in her living room for 7 years, but had it stored in the garage for a year. I currently have it in the garage filled with water to check for leaks. So far none but the glass is bowed in the middle about 3/4". Should I make a braces for it to be on the safe side or is this how the tank was made?? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28562	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

I haven't had time to absorb everything in your post and I don't want to get into details because one thing I wanted to bring to your attention is that the goldfish should be in at least a 55G... if it's a fancy goldfish. Long-bodied goldfish need much more room since they are big swimmers and grow to over 12" and up to 24" long. I recommend that they be in a pond. The 20G is much too small for a goldfish and will cause it to become stunted if left there for too long and stunting causes many stress and health issues usually leading to an early death of the fish. Now that you may be losing one of your 55G's, you may have to re-think the rest of your plans.... or re-home the goldfish. As far as quick cycling your new tanks, if you have 10 fish in one tank and split them into two tanks, take a proportionate amount of filter media from the one tank and split it to the two tanks and you will have minimal cycling issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 4:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium Thanks everyone for your help! I am going to go forth and try it. Let me explain in detail what I plan on doing. I have several fishtanks: (2) 55 gallon (3) 20 gallons (3) 10 gallons. Along with the smaller tanks I was given H.O.T filters and accessories. The 55 gallon is my established tank and so is one of the 20 gallons. All others are empty. The 55 is running a Penguin 350 with filter media along with cut up Aquaclear bio sponges stuffed inside, An Aquatech filter made for a 10 gallon with no filter media (I stuffed it with just the Aquaclear bio sponges), A small in tank bubbler filter with just AC bio sponges and no media. This tank has (1) 3" Angel fish, (3)Swordtails (3)Glofish and (3) Cherry Barbs The 20 Gallon has a Penguin 100 hot w/ filter media andI added bio sponges along with an Aqueon hot made for a ten gallon with just sponges This tank only has 1 Goldfish about 3" long I was planning on moving everyone to the smaller tanks (the goldfish is staying in the 20) and make room for Cichlids in one of the 55s. I would use the already established aquaclear sponges and filters for the small tanks. I would also like to try my hand is saltwater in the other 55. Problem is the cichlids are coming very soon next week (brother is moving and taking down his 55) and didnt want to wait for a cycle and possible harm them. The other 55 has a small leak so that one wont be up and running soon enough. Just thought you guys would like to know exactly what I planned on and why. Thanks again everyone. Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28563	From: Robert 1	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

did you turbo a 1976 car? ----- Original Message ----- From: turbocoupe76 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:40 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium Thanks everyone for your help! I am going to go forth and try it. Let me explain in detail what I plan on doing. I have several fishtanks: (2) 55 gallon (3) 20 gallons (3) 10 gallons. Along with the smaller tanks I was given H.O.T filters and accessories. The 55 gallon is my established tank and so is one of the 20 gallons. All others are empty. The 55 is running a Penguin 350 with filter media along with cut up Aquaclear bio sponges stuffed inside, An Aquatech filter made for a 10 gallon with no filter media (I stuffed it with just the Aquaclear bio sponges), A small in tank bubbler filter with just AC bio sponges and no media. This tank has (1) 3" Angel fish, (3)Swordtails (3)Glofish and (3) Cherry Barbs The 20 Gallon has a Penguin 100 hot w/ filter media andI added bio sponges along with an Aqueon hot made for a ten gallon with just sponges This tank only has 1 Goldfish about 3" long I was planning on moving everyone to the smaller tanks (the goldfish is staying in the 20) and make room for Cichlids in one of the 55s. I would use the already established aquaclear sponges and filters for the small tanks. I would also like to try my hand is saltwater in the other 55. Problem is the cichlids are coming very soon next week (brother is moving and taking down his 55) and didnt want to wait for a cycle and possible harm them. The other 55 has a small leak so that one wont be up and running soon enough. Just thought you guys would like to know exactly what I planned on and why. Thanks again everyone. Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28564	From: kitty.cozy	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: cycling tank one fish not eating

Hi, I'm new to caring for fish. I have a 20 gal tank with 3 tiger barbs. I've had the fish in for 8 days. The last couple of days I've noticed one of my fish isn't eating. He's still swimming around, but he's hiding more than usual. My ammonia is at 1 ppm, pH 7, nitrites 0. I might be doing too many water changes ( I'm paranoid) How often should I be doing partial water changes during cycling? And any thoughts on what to do about the fish that's not eating? Thank you in advance! Melanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28565	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: pH change

I know you take good care of your tanks but whenever I answer a post, I know there are hundreds or thousands of others reading the post so I try to cover many bases with my answers so others might learn something. Yes, fish seem to tolerate pH changes better... especially if the pH change is CO2 related. There are countless planted tanks with fish out there that have CO2 injection for the plants and the change in pH, when altered by the CO2, does not seem to affect the fish. Your case does not seem to be caused by this effect. I haven't done any major reading about this but I would suspect that fish in planted tank get acclimated to the changing pH between night and day and that the GH and KH and other trace element levels in the planted tanks are high enough so that it's not as much of an osmotic shock to the fish as it might be in a tank with low KH, GH and low trace elements and then there is a pH drop because of these low levels. Also, a drastically lowering pH seems to cause more shock issues than a rising pH so it might have been more troubling to the fish to have it drop .5 rather than rise .5 and then come back to it's "normal" level of 7.4 If you can see a little algae, then you probably have a lot more growing in all the nooks and crannies that you don't really see. After all, algae are single celled "plants" so it could be the algae that is using up the CO2 during the day when the lights were on all day that caused the pH to go up and at night, the pH goes back down as the CO2 levels increase in the water. Let us know how the pH morning/evening test comparison goes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 4:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH change None of the things you mentioned seem to apply in this case.  The pH is always stable at 7.4 without any stabilizing agents.  The aquarium gets a PWC every week with very good gravel cleaning.  There are no live plants in the tank.  It has very little algae.  The canister filter was cleaned on Tuesday.  The only difference from usual is that I tested the pH late in the afternoon instead of the morning as usual.  I'll test it late in the afternoon again to see if it is elevated again.  Regardless all of the fish seem to tolerate the pH shift without complications.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2008 3:02:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH change It all depends on your starting baseline and then the ecology of the tank will affect the pH after that.  The "normal" ecology of a tank will ALWAYS lower the pH over time.  If you have rocks that leach calcium carbonate and/or other minerals, this can keep the pH stable or raise it.. or if you actually add your own KH booster like baking soda to help raise and stabilize the pH.  Your fishes poop (breaks down and releases carbonic acid among other things), pee (acidic) and the bacteria that handle nitrification and other biological issues in the tank will usually use up KH and other trace elements which causes the pH to go down.  Doing PWC's is what removes the pollution and also replaces the trace elements. In your case, it would seem that you either have something in the tank that is leaching a little hardness or something basic (opposite of acidic) that is raising the pH or it could be your baseline of the tank is higher than 7.4 and when you didn't feed them for several days, the buffers in the water was able to buffer the water back up a little. Things like keeping the gravel clean and the filters cleaned regularly will also keep the pH more stable since you won't have as much decaying detritus/mulm that would lower the pH as it decays. Last but not least, the time when you check the pH can be a factor if your tank has plants or lots of algae.  During the day (lights on), the plants are using up a lot of the available CO2 during photosynthesis and as the CO2 goes down, the pH will rise.  If you check a planted tank (or a tank with lots of algae) after the lights have been on all day, the pH will be higher than if you check it in the morning before you turn on the lights.  After being dark all night, the CO2 level will have risen which will have lowered the pH. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH change This week I was out of town for three days over the holiday and decided to leave my fish without feed.  When I returned home Saturday night all of the fish looked well and ate normally.  I did a pH check on the water and it had gone from 7.4 (usual) to 7.9.  This is in a 90 gal tank with 8 gourami, 3 cory and 2 otto.  I did a PWC this morning and checked the pH 2 hours afterwords and the pH was 7.4.  Does anyone have an idea as to why the pH was up after going without feed for 3 days? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28566	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

Weren't there already factory turbo charged cars back then? I seem to remember having the option to get the turbo charger on a 1979 Mustang that I bought right out of college (Google just verified it was an option but I opted for the bigger gas guzzling engine.. lol) and I remember the Porsche Carrera being turbo charged while I was still in high school. God, I'm old! LOL I went fishing with that Mustang once. (I had to mention fish or it would be off-topic.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert 1 Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 8:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium did you turbo a 1976 car? ----- Original Message ----- From: turbocoupe76 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:40 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium Thanks everyone for your help! I am going to go forth and try it. Let me explain in detail what I plan on doing. I have several fishtanks: (2) 55 gallon (3) 20 gallons (3) 10 gallons. Along with the smaller tanks I was given H.O.T filters and accessories. The 55 gallon is my established tank and so is one of the 20 gallons. All others are empty. The 55 is running a Penguin 350 with filter media along with cut up Aquaclear bio sponges stuffed inside, An Aquatech filter made for a 10 gallon with no filter media (I stuffed it with just the Aquaclear bio sponges), A small in tank bubbler filter with just AC bio sponges and no media. This tank has (1) 3" Angel fish, (3)Swordtails (3)Glofish and (3) Cherry Barbs The 20 Gallon has a Penguin 100 hot w/ filter media andI added bio sponges along with an Aqueon hot made for a ten gallon with just sponges This tank only has 1 Goldfish about 3" long I was planning on moving everyone to the smaller tanks (the goldfish is staying in the 20) and make room for Cichlids in one of the 55s. I would use the already established aquaclear sponges and filters for the small tanks. I would also like to try my hand is saltwater in the other 55. Problem is the cichlids are coming very soon next week (brother is moving and taking down his 55) and didnt want to wait for a cycle and possible harm them. The other 55 has a small leak so that one wont be up and running soon enough. Just thought you guys would like to know exactly what I planned on and why. Thanks again everyone. Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28567	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: cycling tank one fish not eating

It looks like the problem is you need to do a water change sufficient to get your ammonia down - atleast below .5, preferably lower. What's your ph? The toxicity of ammonia varies by ph The stress from high ammonia or nitrite levels can cause fish to become ill, and one fish at a time ceasing to eat is the pattern I noticed with my first lot (which didn't survive). How often to do water changes during cycling is quite controversial. My fish sure seem happiest when I change atleast a third of the water each day - atleast for a time. Once your tank begins to cycle, I've found it works well to leave it go for a day. I think you were actually supposed to start with one or two danios. Or no more than several danios. Three angelfish is alot for an uncycled 20 gallon tank. It will take longer to cycle, and you'll have to do more water changes. Advantage to danios is they're both small and hardy, as in not easy to kill. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: kitty.cozy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 8:26 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] cycling tank one fish not eating Hi, I'm new to caring for fish. I have a 20 gal tank with 3 tiger barbs. I've had the fish in for 8 days. The last couple of days I've noticed one of my fish isn't eating. He's still swimming around, but he's hiding more than usual. My ammonia is at 1 ppm, pH 7, nitrites 0. I might be doing too many water changes ( I'm paranoid) How often should I be doing partial water changes during cycling? And any thoughts on what to do about the fish that's not eating? Thank you in advance! Melanie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28568	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: pH change

Well, yup, me too, just every once in a while it apparently doesn't work! Hard to troubleshoot it from this distance. If it were the day it happened you could have run it again to see what happened. Whatever happened must have resolved. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmy McHaney To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH change I always rinse the tube and cap with aquarium water before filling it for testing. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28569	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

Yup, but the sea monkeys seem to come with equipment and instructions thát's already been worked out to keep them alive, and with brine shrimp you seem to be expected to experiment until you get it right. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question If you can't raise brine shrimp, they you won't be able to raise Sea-Monkeys either... since they're one and the same. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 4:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Question Question. Now, I know you were kidding, but - won't the fish eat the sea monkeys? I'm curious because I'm having trouble raising brine shrimp, and I had thought about getting some sea monkeys just to get the hang of it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 3:06 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question Yep... now all you need is some Sea-Monkeys http://www.sea-monkeys.com/ for your tank. I bet they'll like those underwater bananas. LOL Just kidding! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question Sounds like you got some banana plants as hitchhikers. Take a look here: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=747+892+791&pcatid <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=747+892+791&pcati d> =791 to start. TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> You might want to Google it, but use the scientific name of Nymphoides aquatica to knock out all the banana tree references (unless, of course, you have a year round sun porch and want to raise those as well for your cereal in the morning). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:32 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Question I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have bought in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a small green bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are still alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am wondering if maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the banana type things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in the gravel and still they are not doing anything. I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of growing they are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide a photo but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28570	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

LOL. But I don't actually care if the sea monkeys swing from plant to plant. I am curious to know if small tetras and zebra danios will eat them. I can picture it now. Huge monster sea monkeys make scary faces at the fish, and they swim away. Grin. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 7:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Question Won't sea monkeys swing from plant to plant (especially banana plants)? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Question. Now, I know you were kidding, but - won't the fish eat the sea > monkeys? > > I'm curious because I'm having trouble raising brine shrimp, and I had > thought about getting some sea monkeys just to get the hang of it. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 3:06 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > > Yep... now all you need is some Sea-Monkeys http://www.sea- monkeys.com/ for > your tank. I bet they'll like those underwater bananas. LOL Just > kidding! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > Sounds like you got some banana plants as hitchhikers. Take a look here: > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm? c=747+892+791&pcatid > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm? c=747+892+791&pcati > d> > =791 to start. > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw > <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> > > You might want to Google it, but use the scientific name of Nymphoides > aquatica to knock out all the banana tree references (unless, of course, you > have a year round sun porch and want to raise those as well for your cereal > in the morning). > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Paula Brown > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:32 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have bought > in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a small green > bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are still > alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am wondering if > maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the banana type > things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in the gravel > and still they are not doing anything. > > I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of growing they > are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just > wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add > Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide a photo > but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 > 5:26 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 > 5:26 AM > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28571	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

Naw, Lenny, you've got shrimp confused with budgies. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 8:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Question The worst thing is when they start tossing fish feces out the tank at people. Yep.. you can tell it's a Sunday! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 7:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Question Won't sea monkeys swing from plant to plant (especially banana plants)? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Question. Now, I know you were kidding, but - won't the fish eat the sea > monkeys? > > I'm curious because I'm having trouble raising brine shrimp, and I had > thought about getting some sea monkeys just to get the hang of it. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 3:06 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > > Yep... now all you need is some Sea-Monkeys http://www.sea- monkeys.com/ for > your tank. I bet they'll like those underwater bananas. LOL Just > kidding! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > Sounds like you got some banana plants as hitchhikers. Take a look here: > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm? > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?> c=747+892+791&pcatid > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm? > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?> c=747+892+791&pcati > d> > =791 to start. > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw > <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw > <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> > > > You might want to Google it, but use the scientific name of Nymphoides > aquatica to knock out all the banana tree references (unless, of course, you > have a year round sun porch and want to raise those as well for your cereal > in the morning). > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Paula Brown > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:32 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have bought > in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a small green > bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are still > alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am wondering if > maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the banana type > things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in the gravel > and still they are not doing anything. > > I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of growing they > are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just > wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add > Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide a photo > but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28572	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: cycling tank one fish not eating

It's good that you have a test kit and you are testing your water. And... you can almost never do too many partial water changes. Fortunately, your pH is only 7.0 so that makes the ammonia less toxic to the fish but any ammonia isn't a good thing. The higher the pH, the more toxic ammonia becomes. You should do a 25% PWC (partial water change) whenever the ammonia gets to 1.0... presuming your tap water has 0.0 ammonia. If your tap water has a higher ammonia level, then you might want to get a tap water conditioner like Prime (or other brands) which will help make the ammonia safer for your fish. Have you done a baseline test on your tap water yet? See my blog (link in my sig) and a recent blog gives the details on how to establish your tap water baseline. As far as your fish not eating, it could be a number of things. The fact that it's hiding more generally means it's not feeling well. That's a natural thing for sick fish to do since Darwinism (survival of the fittest) takes over often when there is a sick fish and the other fish will sometimes bully it until it dies. I'm guessing you don't have a quarantine tank or extra filter systems to use to set up a Q-tank. It would have been better if you would have "Fishless Cycled" your tank but now that you are stuck with "Cycling With Fish", go to my blog and go to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the top is a link to a detailed article on "Cycling With Fish" that will help guide you through this process which can take up to a couple of months or more. If you know somebody with a healthy tank, you could ask them for a handful of their gravel or a piece of their filter media and put that in your filter system which will go a long way in cycling your tank much faster. While at the A to Z page, also take one or both of the FREE online tutorials on fish keeping which will walk you through a lot of the other basics. Feel free to come back here with any and all questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kitty.cozy Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cycling tank one fish not eating Hi, I'm new to caring for fish. I have a 20 gal tank with 3 tiger barbs. I've had the fish in for 8 days. The last couple of days I've noticed one of my fish isn't eating. He's still swimming around, but he's hiding more than usual. My ammonia is at 1 ppm, pH 7, nitrites 0. I might be doing too many water changes ( I'm paranoid) How often should I be doing partial water changes during cycling? And any thoughts on what to do about the fish that's not eating? Thank you in advance! Melanie No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

I wasn't talking about shrimp, I was talking about Sea-Monkeys... aren't they like their land-lubbing cousins that like to toss their poop at people at the zoo? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 9:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Question Naw, Lenny, you've got shrimp confused with budgies. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 8:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Question The worst thing is when they start tossing fish feces out the tank at people. Yep.. you can tell it's a Sunday! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 7:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Question Won't sea monkeys swing from plant to plant (especially banana plants)? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Question. Now, I know you were kidding, but - won't the fish eat the sea > monkeys? > > I'm curious because I'm having trouble raising brine shrimp, and I had > thought about getting some sea monkeys just to get the hang of it. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 3:06 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > > Yep... now all you need is some Sea-Monkeys http://www.sea- monkeys.com/ for > your tank. I bet they'll like those underwater bananas. LOL Just > kidding! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > Sounds like you got some banana plants as hitchhikers. Take a look here: > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm? > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?> c=747+892+791&pcatid > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm? > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?> c=747+892+791&pcati > d> > =791 to start. > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw > <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw > <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> > > > You might want to Google it, but use the scientific name of Nymphoides > aquatica to knock out all the banana tree references (unless, of course, you > have a year round sun porch and want to raise those as well for your cereal > in the morning). > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Paula Brown > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:32 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have bought > in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a small green > bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are still > alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am wondering if > maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the banana type > things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in the gravel > and still they are not doing anything. > > I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of growing they > are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just > wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add > Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide a photo > but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28574	From: pam andress	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

You people are nuts tonight. lol Most fish will eat bbs (baby brine shrimp/ sea monkeys). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28575	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

Hey now.. I resemble that remark!!!! Ooops.. I meant resent! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 10:05 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Question You people are nuts tonight. lol Most fish will eat bbs (baby brine shrimp/ sea monkeys). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28576	From: kitty.cozy	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: cycling tank one fish not eating

Thanks everyone for responding so quickly. There is so much conflicting information on where to keep your ammonia level during cycling. I have been checking the levels twice a day, and have been changing out 2g (out of 20), once or twice a day, to keep ammonia down under 1ppm. Can I keep it lower than that, and still cycle? I'm on day 8 and no nitrites yet. I'm very attached to my fish already, and want to get them through this as painlessly as possible. I will do a baseline on my tap water too. Thank you, Melanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28577	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: cycling tank one fish not eating

That's because the pH and temperature levels play a major role in the toxicity of ammonia. If you have a water temp of 80F and a pH of 8.0, then even 0.25ppm of ammonia can be dangerous whereas with a pH of 7.0, you wouldn't have the same concerns until the ammonia reaches 2.0ppm. Regardless, as long as you have a pH of 7.0, you should still keep the ammonia at 1.0ppm or less. If you had a pH of 8.0, then you would have to keep it less than 0.25ppm. Here's a page that fully explains this effect. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html Using a water treatment like Prime will lessen or eliminate the effect of the ammonia and if you add a pinch of salt per 10G, that will help with the nitrite poisoning when you start to get your nitrite spike. You could technically keep the ammonia lower than 1.0ppm but it would take you longer to fully cycle the tank. The nitrifying bacteria (the good ones that eat the ammonia and nitrite) are opportunistic breeders and will only grow their colony size large enough to handle the ammonia/nitrite being produced by the ecology of your tank. In actuality, a fully stocked tank creates around 4-5ppm of ammonia each day which is why fishless cycling uses that threshold as the level to fishless cycle a tank. Since you have fish, you don't want your ammonia levels reaching that level but you need some ammonia to feed the N-bacteria so they will start growing the right size colony in your filters. Once you have a large enough colony to handle the 1.0ppm, then you will slow down your PWC's so that the fish will build up the ammonia to 1.0ppm again. In actuality, the fish might be putting out 2.0ppm but the N-bacteria are eating 1.0ppm and since there is still another 1.0ppm, they continue growing their colony until they are handling the 2.0ppm. Then you would slow down your PWC's until the ammonia reaches 1.0ppm again, etc., etc., until you have a large enough colony to handle all of the ammonia from your current fish bioload. If you add more fish, all of a sudden, there is more ammonia and you might have to do PWC's until the N-bacteria grow their colony larger to handle the increased bioload. This is why it's important to NOT trash your filters during your cycling process. I have a long article about Filter Maintenance & Cleaning on my blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kitty.cozy Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 10:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: cycling tank one fish not eating Thanks everyone for responding so quickly. There is so much conflicting information on where to keep your ammonia level during cycling. I have been checking the levels twice a day, and have been changing out 2g (out of 20), once or twice a day, to keep ammonia down under 1ppm. Can I keep it lower than that, and still cycle? I'm on day 8 and no nitrites yet. I'm very attached to my fish already, and want to get them through this as painlessly as possible. I will do a baseline on my tap water too. Thank you, Melanie No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28578	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

Yup, Small Tetras and Zebra Danios will certainly eat Sea Monkey's, whether by this or any other name (Brine Shrimp, or . . ), newly hatched or adult, as even the adult size is not too big a mouthful for even a Neon Tetra. BTW, many years ago, ads promoting Brine Shrimp actually depicted drawings of submersed monkeys in their unscrupulous advertising in efforts to get kids to fall for the gimick they were trying to pass these little critters off as -- to increase the sales. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > LOL. But I don't actually care if the sea monkeys swing from plant to plant. I am curious to know if small tetras and zebra danios will eat them. > > I can picture it now. Huge monster sea monkeys make scary faces at the fish, and they swim away. Grin. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 7:09 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plant Question > > > Won't sea monkeys swing from plant to plant (especially banana > plants)? Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > Question. Now, I know you were kidding, but - won't the fish eat > the sea > > monkeys? > > > > I'm curious because I'm having trouble raising brine shrimp, and I > had > > thought about getting some sea monkeys just to get the hang of it. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 3:06 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > > > > > Yep... now all you need is some Sea-Monkeys http://www.sea- > monkeys.com/ for > > your tank. I bet they'll like those underwater bananas. LOL Just > > kidding! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > > > Sounds like you got some banana plants as hitchhikers. Take a look > here: > > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm? > c=747+892+791&pcatid > > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm? > c=747+892+791&pcati > > d> > > =791 to start. > > > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw > > <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> > > > > You might want to Google it, but use the scientific name of > Nymphoides > > aquatica to knock out all the banana tree references (unless, of > course, you > > have a year round sun porch and want to raise those as well for > your cereal > > in the morning). > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Paula Brown > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:32 AM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Question > > > > I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have > bought > > in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a > small green > > bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are > still > > alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am > wondering if > > maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the > banana type > > things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in > the gravel > > and still they are not doing anything. > > > > I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of > growing they > > are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just > > wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add > > Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide > a photo > > but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. > > > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: > 7/6/2008 > > 5:26 AM > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ------------ > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: > 7/6/2008 > > 5:26 AM > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28579	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces

Make fun of what Lenny? Duct tape or Red necks :) -Mike In a message dated 7/6/2008 6:56:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Or you could do it the red-neck way and use duct tape! ;-) (I can make fun of red-necks since I'm from the south! Don't you yankees try it though! :-D) **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28580	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

Yes but they use their flippers. In a message dated 7/6/2008 8:02:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I wasn't talking about shrimp, I was talking about Sea-Monkeys... aren't they like their land-lubbing cousins that like to toss their poop at people at the zoo? Lenny Vasbinder **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28581	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces

OK... I should have said Southern Engineering instead of red-neck! LOL I'd never make fun of duct tape... that fix-it-all marvel of modern science. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another question.. Center Braces Make fun of what Lenny? Duct tape or Red necks :) -Mike In a message dated 7/6/2008 6:56:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Or you could do it the red-neck way and use duct tape! ;-) (I can make fun of red-necks since I'm from the south! Don't you yankees try it though! :-D) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28582	From: William J. Scott	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Plant Question

Hi Lenny, Is that banana plant? LOL Bill -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 07/06/08 13:08:59 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question Yep... now all you need is some Sea-Monkeys http://www.sea-monkeys.com/ for your tank. I bet they'll like those underwater bananas. LOL Just kidding! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Question Sounds like you got some banana plants as hitchhikers. Take a look here: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=747+892+791&pcatid <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=747+892+791&pcati d> =791 to start. TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw <http://tinyurl.com/5vf5aw> You might want to Google it, but use the scientific name of Nymphoides aquatica to knock out all the banana tree references (unless, of course, you have a year round sun porch and want to raise those as well for your cereal in the morning). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:32 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Question I have two plants that evidently came with other plants that I have bought in the past and I have no idea what they are. They look like a small green bunch of bananas. They haven't done anything in months but they are still alive so I am not sure what they are supposed to be doing. I am wondering if maybe I have them upside down but I turned one over to where the banana type things are facing up and the other to where the stem of it is in the gravel and still they are not doing anything. I know that regardless if they do anything or not in terms of growing they are still benefitting the tank by helping to clean it but I am just wondering if I am supposed to be doing something with them. I do add Flourish every so often to all my tanks. Sorry that I can't provide a photo but I don't have a digital camera with me right now. Paula in Monroe, Michigan No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28583	From: L. Gove	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces

i'm a red-neck and PROUD OF IT! i was born adn raised in farm country, i love tractors, and 'fishing' , ATVing..there are JUST as many red-necks here in Maine and new england than in the south! and i love duct-tape also... On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > OK... I should have said Southern Engineering instead of red-neck! LOL > > I'd never make fun of duct tape... that fix-it-all marvel of modern > science. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another question.. Center Braces > > > Make fun of what Lenny? > > Duct tape or Red necks :) > > -Mike > > In a message dated 7/6/2008 6:56:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com<GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > writes: > > Or you could do it the red-neck way and use duct tape! ;-) (I can make fun > of red-necks since I'm from the south! Don't you yankees try it though! > :-D) > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 > 5:26 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28584	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces

Dang... a Yankee Red-Neck... what's the world coming to? But do you have a broke down car sitting on cinder blocks in your front yard? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 6:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another question.. Center Braces i'm a red-neck and PROUD OF IT! i was born adn raised in farm country, i love tractors, and 'fishing' , ATVing..there are JUST as many red-necks here in Maine and new england than in the south! and i love duct-tape also... On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > OK... I should have said Southern Engineering instead of red-neck! LOL > > I'd never make fun of duct tape... that fix-it-all marvel of modern > science. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another question.. Center Braces > > > Make fun of what Lenny? > > Duct tape or Red necks :) > > -Mike > > In a message dated 7/6/2008 6:56:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com<GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > writes: > > Or you could do it the red-neck way and use duct tape! ;-) (I can make > fun of red-necks since I'm from the south! Don't you yankees try it though! > :-D) > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1538 - Release Date: 7/7/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28585	From: hamrad45	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Ph changed

I have several nearly identical tanks (same type of fish, size of tanks , etc)tanks and for some reason the Ph in one tank has gone from 7.6 to 6.0 over the past two months. The other tanks remain at 7.6. The other chemical conditions have not changed. I have been doing 25% water changes every 10 days and the ph comes up but then drops down after about 3 weeks. Any ideas what might cause this. Should I slowly try to bring the ph up using chemicals? Thanks for your time, Tom

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28586	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ph changed

We do not advise using chemicals to adjust pH. What you need to do is to determine what may be in that tank that is causing the drop in pH. Is there something rotting in a back corner behind some rocks? Is there something buried on the substrate? You are going to need to do some serious detective work to determine what may be the problem. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hamrad45 Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ph changed I have several nearly identical tanks (same type of fish, size of tanks , etc)tanks and for some reason the Ph in one tank has gone from 7.6 to 6.0 over the past two months. The other tanks remain at 7.6. The other chemical conditions have not changed. I have been doing 25% water changes every 10 days and the ph comes up but then drops down after about 3 weeks. Any ideas what might cause this. Should I slowly try to bring the ph up using chemicals? Thanks for your time, Tom

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28587	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ph changed

No... do not use chemicals but you should increase the PWC frequency on that tank until we figure out what is happening to the ecology of that tank. There is something in that one tank that is causing your pH to drop so we need to identify the problem so you can fix it. What size tank is it and what kind and how many fish do you have? Do you feed them different foods compared to the other tanks? What kind of filtration? Are you vacuuming your gravel with each 25% PWC? Are you doing filter maintenance to clean the detritus out of the filters and how often? Do you have driftwood in that tank? Do you possibly have a plant that has died and is decaying... or a fish? Do you have test kits of KH and GH? What are your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate test results before you do your PWC's? What is your tap water baseline (article in my blog)? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hamrad45 Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 8:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ph changed I have several nearly identical tanks (same type of fish, size of tanks , etc)tanks and for some reason the Ph in one tank has gone from 7.6 to 6.0 over the past two months. The other tanks remain at 7.6. The other chemical conditions have not changed. I have been doing 25% water changes every 10 days and the ph comes up but then drops down after about 3 weeks. Any ideas what might cause this. Should I slowly try to bring the ph up using chemicals? Thanks for your time, Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1538 - Release Date: 7/7/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28588	From: L. Gove	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces

nope, but we will have a lobster boat without an engine, sitting in our front yard... does that count??? On 7/7/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Dang... a Yankee Red-Neck... what's the world coming to? > > But do you have a broke down car sitting on cinder blocks in your front > yard? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of L. Gove > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 6:50 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another question.. Center Braces > > i'm a red-neck and PROUD OF IT! i was born adn raised in farm country, i > love tractors, and 'fishing' , ATVing..there are JUST as many red-necks here > in Maine and new england than in the south! > > and i love duct-tape also... > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> OK... I should have said Southern Engineering instead of red-neck! LOL >> >> I'd never make fun of duct tape... that fix-it-all marvel of modern >> science. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ >> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... >> <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> >> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:15 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another question.. Center Braces >> >> >> Make fun of what Lenny? >> >> Duct tape or Red necks :) >> >> -Mike >> >> In a message dated 7/6/2008 6:56:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >> GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com<GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> >> writes: >> >> Or you could do it the red-neck way and use duct tape! ;-) (I can make >> fun of red-necks since I'm from the south! Don't you yankees try it > though! >> :-D) >> >> > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1538 - Release Date: 7/7/2008 > 7:40 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28589	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: pH change

It looks like you were right on Lenny.  The pH was up to 7.8 at 6 pm last night.  This morning it was 7.4.  This was apparently due to the CO2 uptake of the algae during daylight hours resulting in increase pH.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2008 9:32:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH change I know you take good care of your tanks but whenever I answer a post, I know there are hundreds or thousands of others reading the post so I try to cover many bases with my answers so others might learn something. Yes, fish seem to tolerate pH changes better... especially if the pH change is CO2 related. There are countless planted tanks with fish out there that have CO2 injection for the plants and the change in pH, when altered by the CO2, does not seem to affect the fish. Your case does not seem to be caused by this effect. I haven't done any major reading about this but I would suspect that fish in planted tank get acclimated to the changing pH between night and day and that the GH and KH and other trace element levels in the planted tanks are high enough so that it's not as much of an osmotic shock to the fish as it might be in a tank with low KH, GH and low trace elements and then there is a pH drop because of these low levels. Also, a drastically lowering pH seems to cause more shock issues than a rising pH so it might have been more troubling to the fish to have it drop .5 rather than rise .5 and then come back to it's "normal" level of 7.4 If you can see a little algae, then you probably have a lot more growing in all the nooks and crannies that you don't really see. After all, algae are single celled "plants" so it could be the algae that is using up the CO2 during the day when the lights were on all day that caused the pH to go up and at night, the pH goes back down as the CO2 levels increase in the water. Let us know how the pH morning/evening test comparison goes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 4:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH change None of the things you mentioned seem to apply in this case.  The pH is always stable at 7.4 without any stabilizing agents.  The aquarium gets a PWC every week with very good gravel cleaning.  There are no live plants in the tank.  It has very little algae.  The canister filter was cleaned on Tuesday.  The only difference from usual is that I tested the pH late in the afternoon instead of the morning as usual.  I'll test it late in the afternoon again to see if it is elevated again.  Regardless all of the fish seem to tolerate the pH shift without complications.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2008 3:02:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH change It all depends on your starting baseline and then the ecology of the tank will affect the pH after that.  The "normal" ecology of a tank will ALWAYS lower the pH over time.  If you have rocks that leach calcium carbonate and/or other minerals, this can keep the pH stable or raise it.. or if you actually add your own KH booster like baking soda to help raise and stabilize the pH.  Your fishes poop (breaks down and releases carbonic acid among other things), pee (acidic) and the bacteria that handle nitrification and other biological issues in the tank will usually use up KH and other trace elements which causes the pH to go down.  Doing PWC's is what removes the pollution and also replaces the trace elements. In your case, it would seem that you either have something in the tank that is leaching a little hardness or something basic (opposite of acidic) that is raising the pH or it could be your baseline of the tank is higher than 7.4 and when you didn't feed them for several days, the buffers in the water was able to buffer the water back up a little. Things like keeping the gravel clean and the filters cleaned regularly will also keep the pH more stable since you won't have as much decaying detritus/mulm that would lower the pH as it decays. Last but not least, the time when you check the pH can be a factor if your tank has plants or lots of algae.  During the day (lights on), the plants are using up a lot of the available CO2 during photosynthesis and as the CO2 goes down, the pH will rise.  If you check a planted tank (or a tank with lots of algae) after the lights have been on all day, the pH will be higher than if you check it in the morning before you turn on the lights.  After being dark all night, the CO2 level will have risen which will have lowered the pH. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH change This week I was out of town for three days over the holiday and decided to leave my fish without feed.  When I returned home Saturday night all of the fish looked well and ate normally.  I did a pH check on the water and it had gone from 7.4 (usual) to 7.9.  This is in a 90 gal tank with 8 gourami, 3 cory and 2 otto.  I did a PWC this morning and checked the pH 2 hours afterwords and the pH was 7.4.  Does anyone have an idea as to why the pH was up after going without feed for 3 days? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28590	From: Jenn	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: New babies!!!

I know that they are just Kribensis but I'm excited to announce that my pair spawned...yay! Now if the albino bushy nosed plecos would follow suit! jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28591	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

No sorry I was born in '76 and I race an '88 Thunderbird Turbocoupe --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert 1" <rroobbeerrtt@...> wrote: > > did you turbo a 1976 car? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: turbocoupe76 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:40 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium > > > Thanks everyone for your help! I am going to go forth and try it. > > Let me explain in detail what I plan on doing. I have several fishtanks: > > (2) 55 gallon (3) 20 gallons (3) 10 gallons. Along with the smaller > tanks I was given H.O.T filters and accessories. The 55 gallon is my > established tank and so is one of the 20 gallons. All others are empty. > > The 55 is running a Penguin 350 with filter media along with cut up > Aquaclear bio sponges stuffed inside, An Aquatech filter made for a 10 > gallon with no filter media (I stuffed it with just the Aquaclear bio > sponges), A small in tank bubbler filter with just AC bio sponges and > no media. > > This tank has (1) 3" Angel fish, (3)Swordtails (3)Glofish and (3) > Cherry Barbs > > The 20 Gallon has a Penguin 100 hot w/ filter media andI added bio > sponges along with an Aqueon hot made for a ten gallon with just sponges > > This tank only has 1 Goldfish about 3" long > > I was planning on moving everyone to the smaller tanks (the goldfish is > staying in the 20) and make room for Cichlids in one of the 55s. I > would use the already established aquaclear sponges and filters for the > small tanks. I would also like to try my hand is saltwater in the other > 55. Problem is the cichlids are coming very soon next week (brother is > moving and taking down his 55) and didnt want to wait for a cycle and > possible harm them. The other 55 has a small leak so that one wont be > up and running soon enough. > > Just thought you guys would like to know exactly what I planned on and > why. > > Thanks again everyone. > > Tom > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28592	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium

I cant help you there. I grew up with turbo Thunderbirds, Mitsubishi Starions and Toyota Supras. They werent that fast but but they would cut corners like a go kart!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Weren't there already factory turbo charged cars back then? I seem to > remember having the option to get the turbo charger on a 1979 Mustang that I > bought right out of college (Google just verified it was an option but I > opted for the bigger gas guzzling engine.. lol) and I remember the Porsche > Carrera being turbo charged while I was still in high school. God, I'm old! > LOL > > I went fishing with that Mustang once. (I had to mention fish or it would > be off-topic.. lol) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Robert 1 > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 8:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium > > did you turbo a 1976 car? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: turbocoupe76 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:40 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! cycle an aquarium > > Thanks everyone for your help! I am going to go forth and try it. > > Let me explain in detail what I plan on doing. I have several fishtanks: > > (2) 55 gallon (3) 20 gallons (3) 10 gallons. Along with the smaller tanks I > was given H.O.T filters and accessories. The 55 gallon is my established > tank and so is one of the 20 gallons. All others are empty. > > The 55 is running a Penguin 350 with filter media along with cut up > Aquaclear bio sponges stuffed inside, An Aquatech filter made for a 10 > gallon with no filter media (I stuffed it with just the Aquaclear bio > sponges), A small in tank bubbler filter with just AC bio sponges and no > media. > > This tank has (1) 3" Angel fish, (3)Swordtails (3)Glofish and (3) Cherry > Barbs > > The 20 Gallon has a Penguin 100 hot w/ filter media andI added bio sponges > along with an Aqueon hot made for a ten gallon with just sponges > > This tank only has 1 Goldfish about 3" long > > I was planning on moving everyone to the smaller tanks (the goldfish is > staying in the 20) and make room for Cichlids in one of the 55s. I would use > the already established aquaclear sponges and filters for the small tanks. I > would also like to try my hand is saltwater in the other 55. Problem is the > cichlids are coming very soon next week (brother is moving and taking down > his 55) and didnt want to wait for a cycle and possible harm them. The other > 55 has a small leak so that one wont be up and running soon enough. > > Just thought you guys would like to know exactly what I planned on and why. > > Thanks again everyone. > > Tom > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 > 5:26 AM >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28593	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces

My wife is a red neck and we live in the middle of Long Island! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: > > i'm a red-neck and PROUD OF IT! i was born adn raised in farm country, i > love tractors, and 'fishing' , ATVing..there are JUST as many red- necks here > in Maine and new england than in the south! > > and i love duct-tape also... > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > OK... I should have said Southern Engineering instead of red- neck! LOL > > > > I'd never make fun of duct tape... that fix-it-all marvel of modern > > science. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another question.. Center Braces > > > > > > Make fun of what Lenny? > > > > Duct tape or Red necks :) > > > > -Mike > > > > In a message dated 7/6/2008 6:56:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com<GoldLenny% 2540gmail.com>> > > writes: > > > > Or you could do it the red-neck way and use duct tape! ;-) (I can make fun > > of red-necks since I'm from the south! Don't you yankees try it though! > > :-D) > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 > > 5:26 AM > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş ((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > on yahoo kwelyroos71 > on MSN kwelyroos71@... > on aol kwelyroos1971 > google talk kwelyroos71 > ICQ 477496656 > dark.moon.crafts@... > kwelyroos71@... > kwelyroos71@... > www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering > www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak > www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces

Yep... I think I saw that one in Jeff Foxworthy's list. You might be a red-neck if you have a boat sitting in your front yard! Actually, with hurricane season upon us and all the floods in the Midwest, that's not a bad idea for us red-necks down here in N'Awlins! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 10:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another question.. Center Braces nope, but we will have a lobster boat without an engine, sitting in our front yard... does that count??? On 7/7/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Dang... a Yankee Red-Neck... what's the world coming to? > > But do you have a broke down car sitting on cinder blocks in your > front yard? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of L. Gove > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 6:50 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another question.. Center Braces > > i'm a red-neck and PROUD OF IT! i was born adn raised in farm country, > i love tractors, and 'fishing' , ATVing..there are JUST as many > red-necks here in Maine and new england than in the south! > > and i love duct-tape also... > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> OK... I should have said Southern Engineering instead of red-neck! >> LOL >> >> I'd never make fun of duct tape... that fix-it-all marvel of modern >> science. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ >> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ >> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... >> <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> >> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:15 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another question.. Center Braces >> >> >> Make fun of what Lenny? >> >> Duct tape or Red necks :) >> >> -Mike >> >> In a message dated 7/6/2008 6:56:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >> GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com<GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> >> writes: >> >> Or you could do it the red-neck way and use duct tape! ;-) (I can >> make fun of red-necks since I'm from the south! Don't you yankees try >> it > though! >> :-D) >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1538 - Release Date: 7/7/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: pH change

Darn.. I think I just pulled a muscle patting myself on the back! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH change It looks like you were right on Lenny. The pH was up to 7.8 at 6 pm last night. This morning it was 7.4. This was apparently due to the CO2 uptake of the algae during daylight hours resulting in increase pH. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2008 9:32:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH change I know you take good care of your tanks but whenever I answer a post, I know there are hundreds or thousands of others reading the post so I try to cover many bases with my answers so others might learn something. Yes, fish seem to tolerate pH changes better... especially if the pH change is CO2 related. There are countless planted tanks with fish out there that have CO2 injection for the plants and the change in pH, when altered by the CO2, does not seem to affect the fish. Your case does not seem to be caused by this effect. I haven't done any major reading about this but I would suspect that fish in planted tank get acclimated to the changing pH between night and day and that the GH and KH and other trace element levels in the planted tanks are high enough so that it's not as much of an osmotic shock to the fish as it might be in a tank with low KH, GH and low trace elements and then there is a pH drop because of these low levels. Also, a drastically lowering pH seems to cause more shock issues than a rising pH so it might have been more troubling to the fish to have it drop .5 rather than rise .5 and then come back to it's "normal" level of 7.4 If you can see a little algae, then you probably have a lot more growing in all the nooks and crannies that you don't really see. After all, algae are single celled "plants" so it could be the algae that is using up the CO2 during the day when the lights were on all day that caused the pH to go up and at night, the pH goes back down as the CO2 levels increase in the water. Let us know how the pH morning/evening test comparison goes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 4:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH change None of the things you mentioned seem to apply in this case. The pH is always stable at 7.4 without any stabilizing agents. The aquarium gets a PWC every week with very good gravel cleaning. There are no live plants in the tank. It has very little algae. The canister filter was cleaned on Tuesday. The only difference from usual is that I tested the pH late in the afternoon instead of the morning as usual. I'll test it late in the afternoon again to see if it is elevated again. Regardless all of the fish seem to tolerate the pH shift without complications. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2008 3:02:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH change It all depends on your starting baseline and then the ecology of the tank will affect the pH after that. The "normal" ecology of a tank will ALWAYS lower the pH over time. If you have rocks that leach calcium carbonate and/or other minerals, this can keep the pH stable or raise it.. or if you actually add your own KH booster like baking soda to help raise and stabilize the pH. Your fishes poop (breaks down and releases carbonic acid among other things), pee (acidic) and the bacteria that handle nitrification and other biological issues in the tank will usually use up KH and other trace elements which causes the pH to go down. Doing PWC's is what removes the pollution and also replaces the trace elements. In your case, it would seem that you either have something in the tank that is leaching a little hardness or something basic (opposite of acidic) that is raising the pH or it could be your baseline of the tank is higher than 7.4 and when you didn't feed them for several days, the buffers in the water was able to buffer the water back up a little. Things like keeping the gravel clean and the filters cleaned regularly will also keep the pH more stable since you won't have as much decaying detritus/mulm that would lower the pH as it decays. Last but not least, the time when you check the pH can be a factor if your tank has plants or lots of algae. During the day (lights on), the plants are using up a lot of the available CO2 during photosynthesis and as the CO2 goes down, the pH will rise. If you check a planted tank (or a tank with lots of algae) after the lights have been on all day, the pH will be higher than if you check it in the morning before you turn on the lights. After being dark all night, the CO2 level will have risen which will have lowered the pH. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH change This week I was out of town for three days over the holiday and decided to leave my fish without feed. When I returned home Saturday night all of the fish looked well and ate normally. I did a pH check on the water and it had gone from 7.4 (usual) to 7.9. This is in a 90 gal tank with 8 gourami, 3 cory and 2 otto. I did a PWC this morning and checked the pH 2 hours afterwords and the pH was 7.4. Does anyone have an idea as to why the pH was up after going without feed for 3 days? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1538 - Release Date: 7/7/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28596	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: New babies!!!

congrats In a message dated 7/7/2008 11:04:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jennhonaker1974@... writes: Kribensis **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: Another question.. Center Braces

Today Long Island and the New England States... Tomorrow, the WORLDDDD!!!! Mu-ah-ha-ha-ha-ha! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Another question.. Center Braces My wife is a red neck and we live in the middle of Long Island! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: > > i'm a red-neck and PROUD OF IT! i was born adn raised in farm country, i > love tractors, and 'fishing' , ATVing..there are JUST as many red- necks here > in Maine and new england than in the south! > > and i love duct-tape also... > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > OK... I should have said Southern Engineering instead of red- neck! LOL > > > > I'd never make fun of duct tape... that fix-it-all marvel of modern > > science. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 11:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another question.. Center Braces > > > > > > Make fun of what Lenny? > > > > Duct tape or Red necks :) > > > > -Mike > > > > In a message dated 7/6/2008 6:56:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com<GoldLenny% 2540gmail.com>> > > writes: > > > > Or you could do it the red-neck way and use duct tape! ;-) (I can make fun > > of red-necks since I'm from the south! Don't you yankees try it though! > > :-D) > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1538 - Release Date: 7/7/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28598	From: pam andress	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: auctions

For those of you that would like to buy or sell your things, there is a new auction site. If you have been on aquabid, you may know that they do a SNE (Saturday Night Express) special one hour auctions once a month. Well one of the people there decided to make up his own site and do these every Saturday night. If you want to join the fun, you need to register before Sat in order to buy or sell. If you do join, please when filling out the form, where it says who told you about the site, please put in my name (ucdxmisty). I hope to see you there and I just may be selling this week. At least I hope so. http://www.1hrauctions.com/index.php Pam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28599	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/7/2008
Subject: Re: pH change

It looks like you were right on Lenny.  The pH was up to 7.8 at 6 pm last night.  This morning it was 7.4.  This was apparently due to the CO2 uptake of the algae during daylight hours resulting in increase pH.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2008 9:32:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH change I know you take good care of your tanks but whenever I answer a post, I know there are hundreds or thousands of others reading the post so I try to cover many bases with my answers so others might learn something. Yes, fish seem to tolerate pH changes better... especially if the pH change is CO2 related. There are countless planted tanks with fish out there that have CO2 injection for the plants and the change in pH, when altered by the CO2, does not seem to affect the fish. Your case does not seem to be caused by this effect. I haven't done any major reading about this but I would suspect that fish in planted tank get acclimated to the changing pH between night and day and that the GH and KH and other trace element levels in the planted tanks are high enough so that it's not as much of an osmotic shock to the fish as it might be in a tank with low KH, GH and low trace elements and then there is a pH drop because of these low levels. Also, a drastically lowering pH seems to cause more shock issues than a rising pH so it might have been more troubling to the fish to have it drop .5 rather than rise .5 and then come back to it's "normal" level of 7.4 If you can see a little algae, then you probably have a lot more growing in all the nooks and crannies that you don't really see. After all, algae are single celled "plants" so it could be the algae that is using up the CO2 during the day when the lights were on all day that caused the pH to go up and at night, the pH goes back down as the CO2 levels increase in the water. Let us know how the pH morning/evening test comparison goes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 4:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH change None of the things you mentioned seem to apply in this case.  The pH is always stable at 7.4 without any stabilizing agents.  The aquarium gets a PWC every week with very good gravel cleaning.  There are no live plants in the tank.  It has very little algae.  The canister filter was cleaned on Tuesday.  The only difference from usual is that I tested the pH late in the afternoon instead of the morning as usual.  I'll test it late in the afternoon again to see if it is elevated again.  Regardless all of the fish seem to tolerate the pH shift without complications.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2008 3:02:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH change It all depends on your starting baseline and then the ecology of the tank will affect the pH after that.  The "normal" ecology of a tank will ALWAYS lower the pH over time.  If you have rocks that leach calcium carbonate and/or other minerals, this can keep the pH stable or raise it.. or if you actually add your own KH booster like baking soda to help raise and stabilize the pH.  Your fishes poop (breaks down and releases carbonic acid among other things), pee (acidic) and the bacteria that handle nitrification and other biological issues in the tank will usually use up KH and other trace elements which causes the pH to go down.  Doing PWC's is what removes the pollution and also replaces the trace elements. In your case, it would seem that you either have something in the tank that is leaching a little hardness or something basic (opposite of acidic) that is raising the pH or it could be your baseline of the tank is higher than 7.4 and when you didn't feed them for several days, the buffers in the water was able to buffer the water back up a little. Things like keeping the gravel clean and the filters cleaned regularly will also keep the pH more stable since you won't have as much decaying detritus/mulm that would lower the pH as it decays. Last but not least, the time when you check the pH can be a factor if your tank has plants or lots of algae.  During the day (lights on), the plants are using up a lot of the available CO2 during photosynthesis and as the CO2 goes down, the pH will rise.  If you check a planted tank (or a tank with lots of algae) after the lights have been on all day, the pH will be higher than if you check it in the morning before you turn on the lights.  After being dark all night, the CO2 level will have risen which will have lowered the pH. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH change This week I was out of town for three days over the holiday and decided to leave my fish without feed.  When I returned home Saturday night all of the fish looked well and ate normally.  I did a pH check on the water and it had gone from 7.4 (usual) to 7.9.  This is in a 90 gal tank with 8 gourami, 3 cory and 2 otto.  I did a PWC this morning and checked the pH 2 hours afterwords and the pH was 7.4.  Does anyone have an idea as to why the pH was up after going without feed for 3 days? Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1537 - Release Date: 7/6/2008 5:26 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28600	From: david hall	Date: 7/8/2008
Subject: poorly chiclid

Hi, I am a new member from the UK. I have a yellow cichlid with an eye problem. Its right eye is very swollen, pop eye like. I have isolated the fish but now sure what else to do. Dave. www.davidhall-photography.co.uk I raise money for charity just by searching the web! www.everyclick.com is an internet search engine with a big difference - it donates half its revenues to charity, please support them too! __________________________________________________________ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28601	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2008
Subject: Re: poorly chiclid

I know you are limited to available medicines in the UK but pop-eye is a symptom of an internal bacterial infection. You should treat the fish with antibiotic food and treat the water column with an antibiotic. I'm not sure what is available over there but hopefully you have a knowledgeable LFS that has a variety of meds. I have a Health page on my blog with links to some other good information that may help. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of david hall Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 6:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] poorly chiclid Hi, I am a new member from the UK. I have a yellow cichlid with an eye problem. Its right eye is very swollen, pop eye like. I have isolated the fish but now sure what else to do. Dave. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1540 - Release Date: 7/8/2008 6:33 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28602	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 7/8/2008
Subject: Re: New babies!!!

I love Kribs. Congrats! Kate --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: From: Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] New babies!!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 7, 2008, 10:55 AM I know that they are just Kribensis but I'm excited to announce that my pair spawned...yay! Now if the albino bushy nosed plecos would follow suit! jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28603	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 7/8/2008
Subject: Any members in Charlotte, NC

Hi, Are there any members in Charlotte, North Carolina? I will be visiting US for 4-5 days but unfortunately wont be able to go out of Charlotte (Family get-together) but would like to meet/get in touch with any members there J Email me at nimmat at yahoo.com Thanks, Nim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28604	From: david hall	Date: 7/8/2008
Subject: Re: poorly chiclid

Thanks Lenny. I dosed it with Protozin. Wait and see now. Dave. www.davidhall-photography.co.uk I raise money for charity just by searching the web! www.everyclick.com is an internet search engine with a big difference - it donates half its revenues to charity, please support them too! --- On Tue, 8/7/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] poorly chiclid > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, 8 July, 2008, 5:55 PM > I know you are limited to available medicines in the UK but > pop-eye is a > symptom of an internal bacterial infection. You should > treat the fish with > antibiotic food and treat the water column with an > antibiotic. I'm not sure > what is available over there but hopefully you have a > knowledgeable LFS that > has a variety of meds. > > I have a Health page on my blog with links to some other > good information > that may help. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of david hall > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 6:24 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] poorly chiclid > > Hi, I am a new member from the UK. > I have a yellow cichlid with an eye problem. Its right eye > is very swollen, > pop eye like. I have isolated the fish but now sure what > else to do. > Dave. > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1540 - Release > Date: 7/8/2008 > 6:33 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> > ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. > , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > __________________________________________________________ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28605	From: Jasmine	Date: 7/8/2008
Subject: PH Variation in tank (tropical)

Hi, I'm new to the group. My name is Jasmine (Canberra, Australia). I have recently set up a tank (AquaOne 980) for tropical fish. I currently have the following in the tank; 2x bristle nose catfish 2x upside catfish (only been able to see 1 lately though) 5x red tetras 6x neon tetras 1x angel 2x pearl gouramis 2x opaline gouramis Since setting up the tank I have had 2 bristle nose die and last night I lost an angel leaving the remainder above. I noticed the other day that the angel appeared to have slightly swollen eyes and then last night, I noticed it was swimming irregularly So moved it to a hospital tank. But sadly, it had died before I went to bed. I'm not really sure what is going on in the tank. I have had a few problems getting the PH level to neutral. One day it will be alkaline and the next it would be acidic. I only use a tiny bit but it just seem to swing. The tank is not brand new but second hand but it does have new gravel. Does anyone have any idea how I can neutralise the PH Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28606	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/9/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)

Leave your pH alone. There is no need to aim for a neutral pH level. pH does not mean that much in the overall scheme of things, ,but rapid pH changes can adversely affect your fish. Did you establish a nitrogen cycle prior to adding all those fish to your tank? If not, then this is more likely to be the problem than your pH. Have you been testing for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates? If not, you need to. Normally, it takes 6-8 weeks to establish a nitrogen cycle. There are ways to establish the cycle without fish (recommended), but many people still use fish to establish a cycle. With a fully stocked tank, such as yours (I looked up the tank online and it looks to hold 215 liters). Elevated values of any of the measurements mentioned above, can be harmful to your fish, as you are experiencing. If you search the archives here, you will find much on this topic. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 1:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH Variation in tank (tropical) Hi, I'm new to the group. My name is Jasmine (Canberra, Australia). I have recently set up a tank (AquaOne 980) for tropical fish. I currently have the following in the tank; 2x bristle nose catfish 2x upside catfish (only been able to see 1 lately though) 5x red tetras 6x neon tetras 1x angel 2x pearl gouramis 2x opaline gouramis Since setting up the tank I have had 2 bristle nose die and last night I lost an angel leaving the remainder above. I noticed the other day that the angel appeared to have slightly swollen eyes and then last night, I noticed it was swimming irregularly So moved it to a hospital tank. But sadly, it had died before I went to bed. I'm not really sure what is going on in the tank. I have had a few problems getting the PH level to neutral. One day it will be alkaline and the next it would be acidic. I only use a tiny bit but it just seem to swing. The tank is not brand new but second hand but it does have new gravel. Does anyone have any idea how I can neutralise the PH Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28607	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/9/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)

You DO NOT need to worry about having neutral pH (7.0). Most fish will thrive in a wide range of pH levels (6.5 - 7.5+). Many fish will thrive at even lower or higher pH levels. That neutral pH is something that a lot of stores try to push on people in order to sell all of the junk chemicals that they sell. The only "chemical" that you should be putting in your tank on a "normal" basis is the dechlorinator product, presuming you have chlorine or chloramine in your tap water. If you have spring or well water, then you may not even need a dechlor product. Don't fall for all of the stress-this and slime-that type products. Those are just more unnecessary chemicals. What is your tap/source water baseline parameters? See my blog for a recent article on finding your baseline. How long has the tank been set up? Did you start off with all of the fish you mentioned? Is it fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? What are your readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH & KH (or give us what ever tests you may have)? The swollen eye (pop-eye) is usually caused by an internal bacterial infection but could also be from an injury. Since it died so quickly, I'll presume it was from a bacterial infection. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 12:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH Variation in tank (tropical) Hi, I'm new to the group. My name is Jasmine (Canberra, Australia). I have recently set up a tank (AquaOne 980) for tropical fish. I currently have the following in the tank; 2x bristle nose catfish 2x upside catfish (only been able to see 1 lately though) 5x red tetras 6x neon tetras 1x angel 2x pearl gouramis 2x opaline gouramis Since setting up the tank I have had 2 bristle nose die and last night I lost an angel leaving the remainder above. I noticed the other day that the angel appeared to have slightly swollen eyes and then last night, I noticed it was swimming irregularly So moved it to a hospital tank. But sadly, it had died before I went to bed. I'm not really sure what is going on in the tank. I have had a few problems getting the PH level to neutral. One day it will be alkaline and the next it would be acidic. I only use a tiny bit but it just seem to swing. The tank is not brand new but second hand but it does have new gravel. Does anyone have any idea how I can neutralise the PH Thanks Jasmine No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1542 - Release Date: 7/9/2008 6:50 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28608	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/9/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)

What is the capacity of this tank in gallons? It isn't clear what you are doing to this tank. You say ""I only use a little bit"". A little bit of what? Ph adjuster? Water? The guys are right about not using ph adjuster; usually not a good thing. The ph has a tendency to bounce back to some predetermined level, and if you are adding buffers you could even be changing what that level is. What is the ph of your tap water when it comes from the tap? Under some condition it is possible for water changes to cause ph swings. For instance, teh water where I live is extremely alkaline, to the point that once air bubbles through it the ph drops dramatically. Better believe I bubble air through it before I add it to the fish tank! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jasmine To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 12:40 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] PH Variation in tank (tropical) Hi, I'm new to the group. My name is Jasmine (Canberra, Australia). I have recently set up a tank (AquaOne 980) for tropical fish. I currently have the following in the tank; 2x bristle nose catfish 2x upside catfish (only been able to see 1 lately though) 5x red tetras 6x neon tetras 1x angel 2x pearl gouramis 2x opaline gouramis Since setting up the tank I have had 2 bristle nose die and last night I lost an angel leaving the remainder above. I noticed the other day that the angel appeared to have slightly swollen eyes and then last night, I noticed it was swimming irregularly So moved it to a hospital tank. But sadly, it had died before I went to bed. I'm not really sure what is going on in the tank. I have had a few problems getting the PH level to neutral. One day it will be alkaline and the next it would be acidic. I only use a tiny bit but it just seem to swing. The tank is not brand new but second hand but it does have new gravel. Does anyone have any idea how I can neutralise the PH Thanks Jasmine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1541 - Release Date: 7/8/2008 7:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28609	From: Jasmine	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: PH Variation in tank (tropical)

Hi Steve / Lenny Here comes my naivety, in the past when I've had fish (in the majority of occasion – there been fresh water fish) this is the second time in my life that I've kept tropical and I've basically just put the tank together, waited for a week then started adding fish – never had a problem before. This time however, I thought I'd better take more care , anyway – I'm not really sure what you mean by establishing a nitrogen cycle. I will try and recall how I set up the tank. The previous owner of the tank had really bad arthritis in his hands and didn't look after the tank that well. Apparently the last lot of fish died after they had been moved. I cleaned the tank out with rock salt and salty water. After cleaning the tank and the ornaments, we waited for about a week or two before getting the gravel. The gravel is riverbed gravel and I was interstate when my partner cleaned the gravel. It was cleaned in running water then double rinsed. We set up the tank the way we wanted it to look. Added the water straight from the cold water tap with water ager (1 bucket may have been from the hot water tap). We let the tank run for about 1 weeks with just water. Then we added the heater and let run for about a week with the thermostat set at 27 degrees C. The we got 4 bristle cat fish and 2 upside cat fish and 2 plants. Let the tank acclimatise for another week while trying to get the GH and KH. The only test that we have done has been PH, GH and KH. I'm not totally sure what the HK is except its chemical base and I don't try and adjust it. The PH quite often is around 7.0 – 7.2 and the GH is about 7 drops. We recently did a water change where we removed about 25 litres (20 being tap water and 5 being rain water). I added the chemical salt to the water prior to adding it to the tank (note that the buckets remained standing overnight before placing into tank). Please note: the gravel was brought from a aquarium suppliers and not taken from a river bed. Can you expand on what the nitrogen cycle is please. Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28610	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)

Hi Jasmine, It would probably be a good idea for you to take one or both of the free online fish keeping tutorials. If you go to my blog, then the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you will see links to the fish keeping tutorials near the top of that page. They will walk you through all aspects of fish keeping, including the much needed "nitrogen cycle". Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning" since this is a very important thing to understand during the beginning stages of your tank. The good bacteria mostly live in your filter system so you don't want to kill them off by improperly cleaning your filters and you don't want to throw your filters away which would be throwing away the good bacteria. In short, the nitrogen cycle is where you "grow" the good Nitrifying bacteria, primarily in your filter system. Fish put out lots of ammonia via urine, osmoregulation and gill function. Ammonia is toxic to fish at very low levels. God or Mother Nature has provided a bacteria that eats ammonia and converts the ammonia to nitrite. Nitrite is also toxic to fish at very low levels... but God or Mother Nature has also provided another bacteria that eats nitrite and converts it to nitrate. Nitrate is relatively harmless unless it gets to very high levels. This is the nitrogen cycle... ammonia>nitrite>nitrate. We control the nitrate levels with live plants and doing weekly 25% PWC's (partial water changes). These good N-bacteria exist everywhere and will eventually "naturally" form in your tank but it would have been much better to "Fishless Cycle" your tank. This is where you start with a running tank except no fish and you would add 4.0ppm to 5.0ppm of plain ammonia to the tank and wait while the nitrogen cycle is established. You would test the tank for ammonia/nitrite every couple of days and add more ammonia to keep it in the 4-5ppm range until the tank is cycling the ammonia to 0.0ppm within 24 hours. Then you would keep adding 4-5ppm of ammonia until the nitrites are also being cycled to 0.0ppm within 24 hours. At that point, you would do a 90% PWC and then you can add all of your fish to fully stock the tank (not overstock it) and you wouldn't have any problems with ammonia or nitrite harming your fish since you grew your own nitrifying bacteria colonies. Since you already have fish, you are now stuck with "Cycling With Fish" which is also covered in a long article that I have linked on the A to Z page. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 7:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH Variation in tank (tropical) Hi Steve / Lenny Here comes my naivety, in the past when I've had fish (in the majority of occasion – there been fresh water fish) this is the second time in my life that I've kept tropical and I've basically just put the tank together, waited for a week then started adding fish – never had a problem before. This time however, I thought I'd better take more care , anyway – I'm not really sure what you mean by establishing a nitrogen cycle. I will try and recall how I set up the tank. The previous owner of the tank had really bad arthritis in his hands and didn't look after the tank that well. Apparently the last lot of fish died after they had been moved. I cleaned the tank out with rock salt and salty water. After cleaning the tank and the ornaments, we waited for about a week or two before getting the gravel. The gravel is riverbed gravel and I was interstate when my partner cleaned the gravel. It was cleaned in running water then double rinsed. We set up the tank the way we wanted it to look. Added the water straight from the cold water tap with water ager (1 bucket may have been from the hot water tap). We let the tank run for about 1 weeks with just water. Then we added the heater and let run for about a week with the thermostat set at 27 degrees C. The we got 4 bristle cat fish and 2 upside cat fish and 2 plants. Let the tank acclimatise for another week while trying to get the GH and KH. The only test that we have done has been PH, GH and KH. I'm not totally sure what the HK is except its chemical base and I don't try and adjust it. The PH quite often is around 7.0 – 7.2 and the GH is about 7 drops. We recently did a water change where we removed about 25 litres (20 being tap water and 5 being rain water). I added the chemical salt to the water prior to adding it to the tank (note that the buckets remained standing overnight before placing into tank). Please note: the gravel was brought from a aquarium suppliers and not taken from a river bed. Can you expand on what the nitrogen cycle is please. Jasmine No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1544 - Release Date: 7/10/2008 7:37 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28611	From: Jasmine	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)

Hi Sorry. The tank holds about 215 liters. I was referring to PH adjuster when I mentioned "I only use a little bit" (i do mean a little bit - like - a tiny tip of the ph adjuster on the tip of a tea spoon) I will have to check the Ph level of our tap water, it continually changes (depending on rain or if we have had an outbreak of blue green algae somewhere in our water system). If we do have rain water, I would use it above tap water anytime. We are trying to set up some rain water tanks just for the fish tank. I haven't mentioned, we haven't got any driftwood in the tank at this stage. The 3 large ornaments are plastic, 3 small ceramic glaze ornaments, 1 unsealed terracotta ornament, 1 small piece of salt water coral and 2 small live plants. The water awaiting to go into the tank is often left standing over night (12 or maybe 24 hours), I must admit I don't agitate it nor heat it - just use it from room temperature. Thank you all for your feed back. it has been very en lighting. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What is the capacity of this tank in gallons? > > It isn't clear what you are doing to this tank. You say ""I only use a little bit"". A little bit of what? Ph adjuster? Water? > > The guys are right about not using ph adjuster; usually not a good thing. The ph has a tendency to bounce back to some predetermined level, and if you are adding buffers you could even be changing what that level is. > > What is the ph of your tap water when it comes from the tap? > > Under some condition it is possible for water changes to cause ph swings. For instance, teh water where I live is extremely alkaline, to the point that once air bubbles through it the ph drops dramatically. Better believe I bubble air through it before I add it to the fish tank! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28612	From: Sohil Garg	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Goldfish Help

This morning I saw my aquarium and found my goldfish a bit inactive and separated from the crowd. On scrutinizing, i found that it had a swelling near the anal fin. The area is totally red in color too. I am quite worried. Please help. Sohil

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28613	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)

Is your tap water treated with chlorine or chloramine or is it natural, like from a spring, well or reservoir? While using rain water might sound like a good thing, it's not as good as it sounds since rain water lacks the minerals, trace elements, etc. that water (from the ground) has in it. It's these minerals, etc. that establish the pH of the water and help keep it buffered to a certain level. Without these minerals buffering the water, the water would be much more susceptible to pH crashes which can kill your fish. Hopefully, by now, you've been to my blog and read the "Establishing your tap water baseline" article. It sounds like you will have to regularly test your tap water since you imply that your pH changes. This is common with natural water supplies as the water is not buffered up like most public utilities would do before allowing the water to go through the public pipes. Utilities buffer up the water so the pH is above 7.0 so the water is not acidic in the pipes which would cause corrosion to the pipes over long periods of time. Even with my public utility supplied water, I find that during the hot summer months, the pH is higher... usually due to some of the mineral buildup on the insides of the pipes leaching into the warmer water flowing through the pipes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical) Hi Sorry. The tank holds about 215 liters. I was referring to PH adjuster when I mentioned "I only use a little bit" (i do mean a little bit - like - a tiny tip of the ph adjuster on the tip of a tea spoon) I will have to check the Ph level of our tap water, it continually changes (depending on rain or if we have had an outbreak of blue green algae somewhere in our water system). If we do have rain water, I would use it above tap water anytime. We are trying to set up some rain water tanks just for the fish tank. I haven't mentioned, we haven't got any driftwood in the tank at this stage. The 3 large ornaments are plastic, 3 small ceramic glaze ornaments, 1 unsealed terracotta ornament, 1 small piece of salt water coral and 2 small live plants. The water awaiting to go into the tank is often left standing over night (12 or maybe 24 hours), I must admit I don't agitate it nor heat it - just use it from room temperature. Thank you all for your feed back. it has been very en lighting. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What is the capacity of this tank in gallons? > > It isn't clear what you are doing to this tank. You say ""I only use a little bit"". A little bit of what? Ph adjuster? Water? > > The guys are right about not using ph adjuster; usually not a good thing. The ph has a tendency to bounce back to some predetermined level, and if you are adding buffers you could even be changing what that level is. > > What is the ph of your tap water when it comes from the tap? > > Under some condition it is possible for water changes to cause ph swings. For instance, teh water where I live is extremely alkaline, to the point that once air bubbles through it the ph drops dramatically. Better believe I bubble air through it before I add it to the fish tank! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1544 - Release Date: 7/10/2008 7:37 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28614	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Vacuums

Well, I try, but neither I nor the fish are perfect! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 8:40 AM Subject: RE: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Vacuums I had heard that they weren't worth the $$ for those reasons. But what I don't get is why a person wouldn't just use a siphon and get the advantage of a water change at the same time? Regarding leftovers from dinner, I just make sure there aren't any. I feed sinking pellets and sprinkle slowly so I see all of them consumed by the fish before they hit the substrate. Plus then I have 10 Synodontis catfish in the tank (it's a 6 foot tank) who take care of any pellets that escape notice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.2/1523 - Release Date: 6/28/2008 7:00 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28615	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)

Lenny already gave you a pretty good outline of the nitrogen cycle, also called the biological cycle. Tests are available for measuring ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite. You can buy a master test kit which contains those three, and a few others for much less than buying each separately. Please note that pH is always lower case p followed by an uppercase H, even when used at the beginning of a sentence. KH measures the alkalinity of the water. Don't get this confused with pH, where most people use alkaline to denote water with a high pH. KH is a measurement of the carbonate hardness of the water. When we speak of water having a buffering capacity to maintain pH, this is actually what is being talked about. Breaking the buffer means we have removed enough carbonate to allow the pH to lower precipitously. This is something you would with to avoid. GH is another measurement of hardness of the water. This test measures magnesium and calcium ions in the water. The astute out there may now be wondering if it is possible, then, to have water with a high pH and a low hardness. Indeed, it is possible, though it does rarely occur in nature. Are we having fun yet? If not, when my hand heals, I can post various formulae showing the action of the biological (nitrogen) cycle, and some relationships between hardness and pH. <G>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH Variation in tank (tropical) Hi Steve / Lenny Here comes my naivety, in the past when I've had fish (in the majority of occasion - there been fresh water fish) this is the second time in my life that I've kept tropical and I've basically just put the tank together, waited for a week then started adding fish - never had a problem before. This time however, I thought I'd better take more care , anyway - I'm not really sure what you mean by establishing a nitrogen cycle. I will try and recall how I set up the tank. The previous owner of the tank had really bad arthritis in his hands and didn't look after the tank that well. Apparently the last lot of fish died after they had been moved. I cleaned the tank out with rock salt and salty water. After cleaning the tank and the ornaments, we waited for about a week or two before getting the gravel. The gravel is riverbed gravel and I was interstate when my partner cleaned the gravel. It was cleaned in running water then double rinsed. We set up the tank the way we wanted it to look. Added the water straight from the cold water tap with water ager (1 bucket may have been from the hot water tap). We let the tank run for about 1 weeks with just water. Then we added the heater and let run for about a week with the thermostat set at 27 degrees C. The we got 4 bristle cat fish and 2 upside cat fish and 2 plants. Let the tank acclimatise for another week while trying to get the GH and KH. The only test that we have done has been PH, GH and KH. I'm not totally sure what the HK is except its chemical base and I don't try and adjust it. The PH quite often is around 7.0 - 7.2 and the GH is about 7 drops. We recently did a water change where we removed about 25 litres (20 being tap water and 5 being rain water). I added the chemical salt to the water prior to adding it to the tank (note that the buckets remained standing overnight before placing into tank). Please note: the gravel was brought from a aquarium suppliers and not taken from a river bed. Can you expand on what the nitrogen cycle is please. Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28616	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical)

I have 1 bristlenose catfish and 11 Synodontis catfish (your upside down is in the same family). Usually you want to add catfish to a tank last since they are purportedly VERY sensitive to the harmful chemicals that occur during a cycle. One of my Synos is like my canary in the mine when he starts hanging around the top, I know I need to test the water. When I had a small nitrite spike in his quarantine tank his nose was GLUED to the surface for weeks, even though the nitrite was removed with a water change and never came back (I added bacteria from an established tank). Try to get some bio spira, or maybe take the cats back until your cycle is complete. Best of luck! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH Variation in tank (tropical) Hi Sorry. The tank holds about 215 liters. I was referring to PH adjuster when I mentioned "I only use a little bit" (i do mean a little bit - like - a tiny tip of the ph adjuster on the tip of a tea spoon) I will have to check the Ph level of our tap water, it continually changes (depending on rain or if we have had an outbreak of blue green algae somewhere in our water system). If we do have rain water, I would use it above tap water anytime. We are trying to set up some rain water tanks just for the fish tank. I haven't mentioned, we haven't got any driftwood in the tank at this stage. The 3 large ornaments are plastic, 3 small ceramic glaze ornaments, 1 unsealed terracotta ornament, 1 small piece of salt water coral and 2 small live plants. The water awaiting to go into the tank is often left standing over night (12 or maybe 24 hours), I must admit I don't agitate it nor heat it - just use it from room temperature. Thank you all for your feed back. it has been very en lighting. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What is the capacity of this tank in gallons? > > It isn't clear what you are doing to this tank. You say ""I only use a little bit"". A little bit of what? Ph adjuster? Water? > > The guys are right about not using ph adjuster; usually not a good thing. The ph has a tendency to bounce back to some predetermined level, and if you are adding buffers you could even be changing what that level is. > > What is the ph of your tap water when it comes from the tap? > > Under some condition it is possible for water changes to cause ph swings. For instance, teh water where I live is extremely alkaline, to the point that once air bubbles through it the ph drops dramatically. Better believe I bubble air through it before I add it to the fish tank! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28617	From: Jenn	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: Re: New babies!!!

These are the first fish I have ever tried to breed. She has a dozen or so free swimming babies now and has laid eggs again. Is this normal?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28618	From: Jenn	Date: 7/10/2008
Subject: More and more babies...

Well, I have more babies. Not kribs though. I had my mind made up for me when I was out a few days ago. I had been throwing around ideas on what to keep in my empty 56gal (30x18) column tank. I was at the pet store where I work part time when one of the guys told me to check out what was in the "feeder" guppy tank. We are pretty sure that they are yellow finned borleyi. I hope to get some good or at least ok pictures soon. I got 6 at ten cents a piece. I've found some pretty neat things that have come in with the feeders. We'll see how these little guys do. jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28619	From: Cheryl	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: ADVICE BADLY NEEDED!

I was hoping someone could answer me a few questions. I have a 55 gallon saltwater tank that I have had running for a good few months now. it was an established tank when I got it, yet very unkempt! aside from the few fatalities which from what I hear is par for the course, everything has been doing well. I have 3 striped damsels,1 blue damsel, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 red banded shrimp, 1 yellow tang,1 serpant star, 2 clownfish, 2 bubble tipped anemones and some blue legged crabs and snails. oh and live rock and sand :)now my question is this..... everything seems to be going fine and to be honest with you, tersting my own water and adding the marine buffer or the amquel etc. has always worked fine. recently I have started taking water to my local aquatics shop and it seems all of a sudden there are a million probs with my water quality and I seem to be spending tons of money between them claiming I have a lot of phosphates and having me go out and buy 30 gallons of distilled water and doing daily partial changes. I guess this is due to poor tap water quality ( i always used tap water with dechlorinator and saltwater mix) now that hasnt worked and I found myself buying a pack of phosphate remover to put in my fluval 404 canister filter. then I was told a week later I needed to buy 3 more and also a pack of something to remove nitrates. (I guess my standard activated carbon etc. isnt good enough?) then i needed to buy calcium etc. honestly, i wish Id never started getting ym water tested with them because they have me so incredibly uptight now and spending loads of money on a bunch of crap. i spend all day looking to make sure noone in my tank is distressed. everything was going well until I started this stuff with the store1 is it really this difficult?? are they overreacting?? or did I just get waaaayyy above my head this time? thanks for listening!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28620	From: Cheryl	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: anemones

ok, i just posted something about my water/chemical balance and this issue is completely irrelevant to the situation but I need advice. when I got this tank a few months back, there was already a bubble-tipped anemone in the tank. very small little guy which the clownfish loved but the only thing is, he has always been tightly closed. I cant feed it because it wont open. I have since gotten another anemone which ive had for a couple weeks that is open fine and is eating fine etc. I know the first one is still alive because he has recently decided to change location in the tank. it has just been like this since day 1 and the clownfish still are all over it. any advice? thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28621	From: Mike Downey	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: Check the feeder tanks

I was at the pet store where I work part time when one of the guys told me to check out what was in the "feeder" guppy tank. We are pretty sure that they are yellow finned borleyi. I hope to get some good or at least ok pictures soon. I got 6 at ten cents a piece. I've found some pretty neat things that have come in with the feeders. We'll see how these little guys do. jenn Around here in Indianapolis, IN USA lately the feeder ghost shrimp shipments have been containing Blue Fin killies. Cute little guys and fit right in the 240 community.!! Spawning in the java moss. Mike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28622	From: Ashley	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included)

Hey everyone, I have an unidentified FW fish on my hands, and he's been causing me a lot of trouble. I got a 190 gallon SW setup from a friend who needed to get rid of it. The tank was used as a FW setup, and had not been taken very good care of. In the bottom of the tank I found this but-ugly fish that they had missed when they got rid of their other fish. I kept him in a 10 gallon quarantine for a few months, during which he killed off our two remaining jewel cichlid babies that were too small to sell. Two days ago, I moved him into my 125 gal tank, which was sparsely populated with a medium pleco, a ropefish, a 5 inch Columbian shark, and a small sindondis multiplacatus and harlequin catfish (I'm sure I spelled those wrong lol). Within less than 48 hours, I had to move him back to the 10 gal because he attacked my ropefish, to the point that he may not survive. However, I had filled the 10 gallon with tadpoles I found in a bin outside, so now if I ever want to move him in with other fish I'll have to quarantine him again. Hopefully, if I can identify this fish, I can figure out what to do with him. Not surprisingly, many of the tadpoles are already missing chunks out of their tails. If he didn't need to be quarantined again due to his emergency evacuation out of the 125 gal, I would stick him in with my African cichlids and see how he likes being picked on! What the heck is he, and what should I do? sorry, the pictures are very fuzzy, but he's a fast little guy! http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308007.jp g http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308008.jp g http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308009.jp g http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308010.jp g http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308011.jp g http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308012.jp g http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308013.jp g He's about 3 inches long, brown with a little red by his fins, has a small mouth with short wiskers around it, he hides almost constantly.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28623	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included)

Hi Ashley, The links broke... the "g" broke off of the .jpg at the end of each link. Others can simply click on the link and it will bring them to a page saying photo was moved. Then they can simply add a "g" to the end of the URL (web address) and that will bring them to the photos. Like you said, the photos are a little blurry but it could be a Golden Algae Eater or Albino Chinese Algae Eater. Adults of these species are known to be aggressive and will go after anything slower than them. Check out a comparison picture here or Google for other images. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=938&N=0 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ashley Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) Hey everyone, I have an unidentified FW fish on my hands, and he's been causing me a lot of trouble. I got a 190 gallon SW setup from a friend who needed to get rid of it. The tank was used as a FW setup, and had not been taken very good care of. In the bottom of the tank I found this but-ugly fish that they had missed when they got rid of their other fish. I kept him in a 10 gallon quarantine for a few months, during which he killed off our two remaining jewel cichlid babies that were too small to sell. Two days ago, I moved him into my 125 gal tank, which was sparsely populated with a medium pleco, a ropefish, a 5 inch Columbian shark, and a small sindondis multiplacatus and harlequin catfish (I'm sure I spelled those wrong lol). Within less than 48 hours, I had to move him back to the 10 gal because he attacked my ropefish, to the point that he may not survive. However, I had filled the 10 gallon with tadpoles I found in a bin outside, so now if I ever want to move him in with other fish I'll have to quarantine him again. Hopefully, if I can identify this fish, I can figure out what to do with him. Not surprisingly, many of the tadpoles are already missing chunks out of their tails. If he didn't need to be quarantined again due to his emergency evacuation out of the 125 gal, I would stick him in with my African cichlids and see how he likes being picked on! What the heck is he, and what should I do? sorry, the pictures are very fuzzy, but he's a fast little guy! http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308007.jp <http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308007.jp> g http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308008.jp <http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308008.jp> g http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308009.jp <http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308009.jp> g http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308010.jp <http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308010.jp> g http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308011.jp <http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308011.jp> g http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308012.jp <http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308012.jp> g http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308013.jp <http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308013.jp> g He's about 3 inches long, brown with a little red by his fins, has a small mouth with short wiskers around it, he hides almost constantly. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1546 - Release Date: 7/11/2008 6:47 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28624	From: User &	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included)

botia, usually harmless.... do not understand why he would killing and maiming.... but fish like people have different personalities On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 02:41:01 -0000, Ashley wrote > Hey everyone, I have an unidentified FW fish on my hands, and he's > been causing me a lot of trouble. I got a 190 gallon SW setup from a > friend who needed to get rid of it. The tank was used as a FW setup, > and had not been taken very good care of. In the bottom of the tank I > found this but-ugly fish that they had missed when they got rid of > their other fish. I kept him in a 10 gallon quarantine for a few > months, during which he killed off our two remaining jewel cichlid > babies that were too small to sell. Two days ago, I moved him into my > 125 gal tank, which was sparsely populated with a medium pleco, a > ropefish, a 5 inch Columbian shark, and a small sindondis > multiplacatus and harlequin catfish (I'm sure I spelled those wrong > lol). Within less than 48 hours, I had to move him back to the 10 gal > because he attacked my ropefish, to the point that he may not > survive. However, I had filled the 10 gallon with tadpoles I found in > a bin outside, so now if I ever want to move him in with other fish > I'll have to quarantine him again. Hopefully, if I can identify this > fish, I can figure out what to do with him. Not surprisingly, many of > the tadpoles are already missing chunks out of their tails. If he > didn't need to be quarantined again due to his emergency evacuation > out of the 125 gal, I would stick him in with my African cichlids and > see how he likes being picked on! What the heck is he, and what > should I do? > > sorry, the pictures are very fuzzy, but he's a fast little guy! > > http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308007.jp > g > http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308008.jp > g > http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308009.jp > g > http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308010.jp > g > http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308011.jp > g > http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308012.jp > g > http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/furureveterinarian/71308013.jp > g > > He's about 3 inches long, brown with a little red by his fins, has a > small mouth with short wiskers around it, he hides almost constantly. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28625	From: Ashley	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included)

Thanks! Yes, it is definitely a red-finned botia, though mine looks to be in considerably worse condition than the pictures i saw when i googled it. his personality may have been aquired from his previous tank and it's inhabitants. he has not regained any color since i recieve him either. it's kind of worrysome.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28626	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures incl

I still have not had any problems with my golden chinese algae eater...I guess I have been lucky because I have heard horror stories about them of course I heard them all after I got him. Just an update since it has been awhile. My tinfoils outgrew my big tanks so we exchanged them for 2 angels which will also outgrow my big tanks but for now they are just little bitty things. Other than the Angels we are sticking with Danios which are my favorite. I now have 6 fancy tail zebras, one pearl and one that looks like a pearl fancy tail zebra...very pretty. In our third tank we have platys. Mickey mouse, double banded, sunsets and one cool black, white and blue one. My sons tank is still doing great..he has guppies and platys. I am very suprised with how well he has maintained his tank fully on his own. We now have plants which usually the fish end up chowing on so we will see how the new plants do. Anyway its nice to finally have a little free time and have a chance to read and respond to emails. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) Hi Ashley, The links broke... the "g" broke off of the .jpg at the end of each link. Others can simply click on the link and it will bring them to a page saying photo was moved. Then they can simply add a "g" to the end of the URL (web address) and that will bring them to the photos. Like you said, the photos are a little blurry but it could be a Golden Algae Eater or Albino Chinese Algae Eater. Adults of these species are known to be aggressive and will go after anything slower than them. Check out a comparison picture here or Google for other images. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=938&N=0 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ashley Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) Hey everyone, I have an unidentified FW fish on my hands, and he's been causing me a lot of trouble. I got a 190 gallon SW setup from a friend who needed to get rid of it. The tank was used as a FW setup, and had not been taken very good care of. In the bottom of the tank I found this but-ugly fish that they had missed when they got rid of their other fish. I kept him in a 10 gallon quarantine for a few months, during which he killed off our two remaining jewel cichlid babies that were too small to sell. Two days ago, I moved him into my 125 gal tank, which was sparsely populated with a medium pleco, a ropefish, a 5 inch Columbian shark, and a small sindondis multiplacatus and harlequin catfish (I'm sure I spelled those wrong lol). Within less than 48 hours, I had to move him back to the 10 gal because he attacked my ropefish, to the point that he may not survive. However, I had filled the 10 gallon with tadpoles I found in a bin outside, so now if I ever want to move him in with other fish I'll have to quarantine him aga [The entire original message is not included]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28627	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) NOW:Update on

Heather (sorry, I don't do the 3 thing.. lol) It's only after a CAE matures into adulthood that they are more likely to become aggressive. How old is yours? Good to hear that everything else is going well with your tanks. Now you have to go knock on wood! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H3ATH3R Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) NOW:Update on my fishies I still have not had any problems with my golden chinese algae eater...I guess I have been lucky because I have heard horror stories about them of course I heard them all after I got him. Just an update since it has been awhile. My tinfoils outgrew my big tanks so we exchanged them for 2 angels which will also outgrow my big tanks but for now they are just little bitty things. Other than the Angels we are sticking with Danios which are my favorite. I now have 6 fancy tail zebras, one pearl and one that looks like a pearl fancy tail zebra...very pretty. In our third tank we have platys. Mickey mouse, double banded, sunsets and one cool black, white and blue one. My sons tank is still doing great..he has guppies and platys. I am very suprised with how well he has maintained his tank fully on his own. We now have plants which usually the fish end up chowing on so we will see how the new plants do. Anyway its nice to finally have a little free time and have a chance to read and respond to emails. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) Hi Ashley, The links broke... the "g" broke off of the .jpg at the end of each link. Others can simply click on the link and it will bring them to a page saying photo was moved. Then they can simply add a "g" to the end of the URL (web address) and that will bring them to the photos. Like you said, the photos are a little blurry but it could be a Golden Algae Eater or Albino Chinese Algae Eater. Adults of these species are known to be aggressive and will go after anything slower than them. Check out a comparison picture here or Google for other images. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=938&N=0 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ashley Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) Hey everyone, I have an unidentified FW fish on my hands, and he's been causing me a lot of trouble. I got a 190 gallon SW setup from a friend who needed to get rid of it. The tank was used as a FW setup, and had not been taken very good care of. In the bottom of the tank I found this but-ugly fish that they had missed when they got rid of their other fish. I kept him in a 10 gallon quarantine for a few months, during which he killed off our two remaining jewel cichlid babies that were too small to sell. Two days ago, I moved him into my 125 gal tank, which was sparsely populated with a medium pleco, a ropefish, a 5 inch Columbian shark, and a small sindondis multiplacatus and harlequin catfish (I'm sure I spelled those wrong lol). Within less than 48 hours, I had to move him back to the 10 gal because he attacked my ropefish, to the point that he may not survive. However, I had filled the 10 gallon with tadpoles I found in a bin outside, so now if I ever want to move him in with other fish I'll have to quarantine him aga [The entire original message is not included] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1546 - Release Date: 7/11/2008 6:47 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1546 - Release Date: 7/11/2008 6:47 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28628	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/11/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) NOW:Update on

He/She is about is only about 9 months old now. The guy I buy my fish from said he would be happy to take him back if and when he gets aggressive. I do alot of trading with him usually baby platies for food, fish, and anything else I may need. I also trade in the fish when they get too large for my tanks such as the tinfoils and eventually I will do the same with my angels and plecos. Its nice to beable to do that. I forgot to mention my swordtails in with my platies. We had the lonely male swordtail for 7 months and I just got him a female a week ago. He is happy and not being quite as aggressive now. :) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE: [AquaticLife] What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) NOW:Update on my fishies Heather (sorry, I don't do the 3 thing.. lol) It's only after a CAE matures into adulthood that they are more likely to become aggressive. How old is yours? Good to hear that everything else is going well with your tanks. Now you have to go knock on wood! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H3ATH3R Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) NOW:Update on my fishies I still have not had any problems with my golden chinese algae eater...I guess I have been lucky because I have heard horror stories about them of course I heard them all after I got him. Just an update since it has been awhile. My tinfoils outgrew my big tanks so we exchanged them for 2 angels which will also outgrow my big tanks but for now they are just little bitty things. Other than the Angels we are sticking with Danios which are my favorite. I now have 6 fancy tail zebras, one pearl and one that looks like a pearl fancy tail zebra...very pretty. In our third tank we have platys. Mickey mouse, double banded, sunsets and one cool black, white and blue one. My sons tank is still doing great..he has guppies and platys. I am very suprised with how well he has maintained his tank fully on his own. We now have plants which usually the fish end up chowing on so we will see how the new plants do. Anyway its nice to finally have a little free time and have a chance to read and respond to emails. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included) Hi Ashley, The links broke... the "g" broke off of the .jpg at the end of each link. Others can simply click on the link and it will [The entire original message is not included]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28629	From: L. Gove	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included)

put the little guy in time-out and isn't there color enhancing food, she can give him... shoundsa like he wants a tank of his own. On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Ashley <ashleyrc_8213@...> wrote: > Thanks! > Yes, it is definitely a red-finned botia, though mine looks to be in > considerably worse condition than the pictures i saw when i googled it. > his personality may have been aquired from his previous tank and it's > inhabitants. he has not regained any color since i recieve him either. > it's kind of worrysome. > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28630	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: house water, aquariums and a hatchery in Area 51

Because of Bay Shore NYs high quality of water (sigh), I use a GE smartwater house filter on my main waterline. On the icemaker/water dispenser I have a universal fridge GE filter that gets rid of chlorine too and I also have another filter inside the fridge thats built in. So my drinking water is very clean. On the main water filter I can only use the biggest pleated filter that traps sediments because if I use the smaller micron filter that filters out chlorines and fine silt I end up changing filters every two weeks. I seem to have VERY heavy iron deposits in my water. The town assured me this is ok. I have lived in this house for 5 years and its always the same. Bayshore also has the biggest problem of radioactive waste leeching into its aquafer on Long Island so who do I believe. This filter seems to do the trick in keeping the deposits at bay so im sure alot of minerals are not making it through. My problem is should I bypass the filter when im filling up my aquariums so I dont filter out any minerals? Most of the lfs and Petco buy their fish from a hatchery in the next town over which Im sure doesnt use filters on their water. Since I found out where the fish came from I never bother with trying to adjust my PH or water hardness as it seems we all use the same water anyway. No one will disclose the location of this hatchery (Bermuda triangle perhaps?), so I cant see what they use.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28631	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Chinese Algae Eater

Oh dear, I accidentally killed mine. Took some of the decorations out of the tank to clean and he was hiding in a ship. I felt awful! I had him about a month and he was a busy little bugger, he was about 3 inches long when I got him and I did not know the age. However, I haver read that they can become quite aggressive, although he was not , always letting other fish swim around with him. Well now I need to replace him, since they can become aggressive, what type of algae eater would you recommend. I don't have any algae right now as that little fish really was a busy one. Also, when I do get another, should I add an algae tab to the tank? Viv

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28632	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Fry divider for tank

My platy had babies and i had them in a floating net. Most died. Someone told me to get a tank divider. I asked at the pet store and they had not heard of one. Where can I get one or is it something that we can make out of plexiglass or some other material? Viv

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28633	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: house water, aquariums and a hatchery in Area 51

What is the name of the "next town over"? I'm sure a Google of that town name and "tropical fish" would disclose the name/location of the hatchery... presuming they do business over the net. As far as your water, if you are going to use the completely filtered water, you should probably add a supplement to the tank. Something like "Kent's R/O Right". It's 30% off at DrsFosterSmith.com right now. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4395+4128&pcat id=4128 They sell a liquid formula also. If you go without the filtered water, just make sure you use a dechlor product that also treats heavy metals. I normally use API's Tap Water Conditioner but PetsMart didn't sell the 16 oz size so I checked out all the things they did sell and PetsMart's brand, TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator was comparable to API.. possibly even made by API. They are both more concentrated than some of the other brands so it only takes 1ml per 10G where some other brands use 5ml or even 10ml per 10G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] house water, aquariums and a hatchery in Area 51 Because of Bay Shore NYs high quality of water (sigh), I use a GE smartwater house filter on my main waterline. On the icemaker/water dispenser I have a universal fridge GE filter that gets rid of chlorine too and I also have another filter inside the fridge thats built in. So my drinking water is very clean. On the main water filter I can only use the biggest pleated filter that traps sediments because if I use the smaller micron filter that filters out chlorines and fine silt I end up changing filters every two weeks. I seem to have VERY heavy iron deposits in my water. The town assured me this is ok. I have lived in this house for 5 years and its always the same. Bayshore also has the biggest problem of radioactive waste leeching into its aquafer on Long Island so who do I believe. This filter seems to do the trick in keeping the deposits at bay so im sure alot of minerals are not making it through. My problem is should I bypass the filter when im filling up my aquariums so I dont filter out any minerals? Most of the lfs and Petco buy their fish from a hatchery in the next town over which Im sure doesnt use filters on their water. Since I found out where the fish came from I never bother with trying to adjust my PH or water hardness as it seems we all use the same water anyway. No one will disclose the location of this hatchery (Bermuda triangle perhaps?), so I cant see what they use. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28634	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater

What size tank do you have? What other fish do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater Oh dear, I accidentally killed mine. Took some of the decorations out of the tank to clean and he was hiding in a ship. I felt awful! I had him about a month and he was a busy little bugger, he was about 3 inches long when I got him and I did not know the age. However, I haver read that they can become quite aggressive, although he was not , always letting other fish swim around with him. Well now I need to replace him, since they can become aggressive, what type of algae eater would you recommend. I don't have any algae right now as that little fish really was a busy one. Also, when I do get another, should I add an algae tab to the tank? Viv No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fry divider for tank

While I've used the hang on tank net as an in tank time-out for an aggressive male zebra danio, I wasn't impressed with the water flow through the nets. I saw where bubbles were building up under the bottom of the net. If the net would stop small air bubbles from going through the net, then it probably stopped some of the water flow through the net also. I don't have livebearers but if I did, I'd probably use something like this, which has it's own little air driven filter system to make sure it gets adequate water circulation... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=14698 Most of the tank dividers that I've seen are for adult sized fish. For livebearers, normally if you provide some floating bushy plants and other bushy plants in the tank, the fry would be able to hid in the plants to avoid being eaten. Unless you have a way to rehome most of the fry, you don't want them all surviving anyhow or you'd run out of tank space very quickly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fry divider for tank My platy had babies and i had them in a floating net. Most died. Someone told me to get a tank divider. I asked at the pet store and they had not heard of one. Where can I get one or is it something that we can make out of plexiglass or some other material? Viv No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28636	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fry divider for tank

It never ceases to amaze me what some LFS have never heard of with regard to what I consider to be fairly common equipment, live stock, or plants. It is fairly easy to make one yourself, though it will require some cutting and a bunch of drilling to do so. Before you do that, however, take a look around in craft stores, and similar, to see if you can find any relatively stiff plastic that is already perforated with small holes and is big enough to fit into your tank, even if you must cut to fit. No matter which you need to use, you will need to have the inside measurements of the tank. You need to know the width of the tank, where the divider will go from side to side, and the depth from underneath the top frame to the bottom of the tank, or as far as you will be placing the divider into the substrate. You will then need to cut your divider to be to those dimensions. If you needed to buy a piece without holes, you will need to drill them. These holes need to be smaller than the new born fry so that the fry cannot, at any time, swim through them. You'll need to clamp the plastic, plexi, whatever, to a piece of old wood that you don't mind getting holes in, and start drilling. You can go for a nice, neat, orderly drilling of holes, or just do them randomly. The holes are to allow the passage of water so you can use the same filter, do your water changes, etc. from either side of the tank. If this is to be temporary, you'll need to devise a method of holding the panel in place with clips, or some other temporary fastening. If this is to be a tank to keep fry in, and you will be doing this on a regular basis, never removing the panel, then you can use silicon sealant to hold it in place. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fry divider for tank My platy had babies and i had them in a floating net. Most died. Someone told me to get a tank divider. I asked at the pet store and they had not heard of one. Where can I get one or is it something that we can make out of plexiglass or some other material? Viv

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28637	From: Mike Downey	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: What kind of fish is this?!?!? (Pictures included)

Looks like some species of loach...possibly "yellow tail blue botia" Google Images for this common name and there are plenty of pictures Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Ashley [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28638	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater

I have to add algae wafers for my plecos but my chinese algae eater has pretty much stopped eating agae. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater What size tank do you have? What other fish do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater Oh dear, I accidentally killed mine. Took some of the decorations out of the tank to clean and he was hiding in a ship. I felt awful! I had him about a month and he was a busy little bugger, he was about 3 inches long when I got him and I did not know the age. However, I haver read that they can become quite aggressive, although he was not , always letting other fish swim around with him. Well now I need to replace him, since they can become aggressive, what type of algae eater would you recommend. I don't have any algae right now as that little fish really was a busy one. Also, when I do get another, should I add an algae tab to the tank? Viv No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [The entire original message is not included]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28639	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater

It is a 40 gallon tank, have have 4 coreys , platys, bleeding hearts and black skirts. � --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 11:38 AM What size tank do you have? What other fish do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater Oh dear, I accidentally killed mine. Took some of the decorations out of the tank to clean and he was hiding in a ship. I felt awful! I had him about a month and he was a busy little bugger, he was about 3 inches long when I got him and I did not know the age. However, I haver read that they can become quite aggressive, although he was not , always letting other fish swim around with him. Well now I need to replace him, since they can become aggressive, what type of algae eater would you recommend. I don't have any algae right now as that little fish really was a busy one. Also, when I do get another, should I add an algae tab to the tank? Viv No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28640	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater

Once they stop eating algae is most likely when they'll start getting more aggressive to other fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H3ATH3R Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater I have to add algae wafers for my plecos but my chinese algae eater has pretty much stopped eating agae. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater What size tank do you have? What other fish do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater Oh dear, I accidentally killed mine. Took some of the decorations out of the tank to clean and he was hiding in a ship. I felt awful! I had him about a month and he was a busy little bugger, he was about 3 inches long when I got him and I did not know the age. However, I haver read that they can become quite aggressive, although he was not , always letting other fish swim around with him. Well now I need to replace him, since they can become aggressive, what type of algae eater would you recommend. I don't have any algae right now as that little fish really was a busy one. Also, when I do get another, should I add an algae tab to the tank? Viv No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [The entire original message is not included] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. .´Ż`..¸¸.><((((ş>..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸><((((ş> ¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><..´Ż`..¸¸..´Ż`..¸<ş((((><¸..´Ż`..¸. , ..´Ż`...<ş((((><.´Ż`..¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28641	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater

In a 40G, you could go with one of the dwarf pleco's... a bristlenosed pleco or clown pleco which both stay under 6" would work in a 40G and you would only need one. You will also have to supplement their diet with a algae thin every couple of days after lights out so it will get adequate protein in it's diet also. Most algae thins are usually around 50% protein although the Omega One brand of algae thins is the most pure of the brands I've checked out. I use Hikari brand for my algae eaters since they are a lot less expensive but still a quality brand. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater It is a 40 gallon tank, have have 4 coreys , platys, bleeding hearts and black skirts.   --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 11:38 AM What size tank do you have? What other fish do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese Algae Eater Oh dear, I accidentally killed mine. Took some of the decorations out of the tank to clean and he was hiding in a ship. I felt awful! I had him about a month and he was a busy little bugger, he was about 3 inches long when I got him and I did not know the age. However, I haver read that they can become quite aggressive, although he was not , always letting other fish swim around with him. Well now I need to replace him, since they can become aggressive, what type of algae eater would you recommend. I don't have any algae right now as that little fish really was a busy one. Also, when I do get another, should I add an algae tab to the tank? Viv No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28642	From: Heather	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Plant question

Ok Im not sure what kind of plants these are they are long, thick, almost plush vine like plants. One is about 4 foot long with other pieces vining out down it and the other is about 2 foot long they each only have one root, they are pretty almost look fake. In my tank with my angels that has an aquarium/plant light the plants all seem to eventually wilt and die (this happened with my frog bit also. I clean this tank and do PWC 2 times a week. Now in my other tank with my platys which I clean and do PWC every couple of months and which has a normal cheap bulb in it the plants do great. They also do excellent in my sons tank which is basically on the same schedule and has the same lighting as my platy tank. Why is this? Could it be the aquarium/plant bulb is too much for them? Maybe they do not get enough nutrients because of how often I clean it and do PWC's? Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I love these plants and do not want to lose them.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28643	From: Heather	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fry divider for tank

I have platys that have babies constantly. I have bushy fake plants one hangs from the top, one sits on the bottom. This is how I did it for my platy/swordtail tank and my sons platy/guppy tank. Not all make it but more than enough do...lol! They do well hiding themselves if they have enough plants to hide in or under. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "vivian bradish" <viv32117@...> wrote: > > My platy had babies and i had them in a floating net. Most died.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28644	From: Mike Downey	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Chinese Algae Eater

In a 40G, you could go with one of the dwarf pleco's... a bristlenosed pleco or clown pleco which both stay under 6" would work in a 40G and you would only need one. You will also have to supplement their diet with a algae thin every couple of days after lights out so it will get adequate protein in it's diet also. Most algae thins are usually around 50% protein although the Omega One brand of algae thins is the most pure of the brands I've checked out. I use Hikari brand for my algae eaters since they are a lot less expensive but still a quality brand. Lenny Vasbinder When choosing food for algae eaters check the ingredients on the package. Many brands the first listed ingredient is fish meal or something other than green food stuffs. The ingredients on foods are listed in decending order of percentage of total volumne. For fish requiring green stuffs...algae etc. ..the first listed ingredient should be green food. Not fish meals...thats typical of an omnivore diet. Mike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28645	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Can painting bother the fish ?

I have to paint the entire wall right behind my tank. I can only move it out just enough for my had to get back behind where the tank is. I was wondering if the fumes will bother them and would it be wise to unplug the biowheel filter while I am painting?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28646	From: Jenn	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Check the feeder tanks

I remember finding blue killies in the feeder tank last summer. I think this is to be my new mantra "check the feeder tank"...lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28647	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fry divider for tank

They also have little rectangular net things you can hang in a full sized tank to keep fry or injured fish in. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fry divider for tank While I've used the hang on tank net as an in tank time-out for an aggressive male zebra danio, I wasn't impressed with the water flow through the nets. I saw where bubbles were building up under the bottom of the net. If the net would stop small air bubbles from going through the net, then it probably stopped some of the water flow through the net also. I don't have livebearers but if I did, I'd probably use something like this, which has it's own little air driven filter system to make sure it gets adequate water circulation... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=14698 Most of the tank dividers that I've seen are for adult sized fish. For livebearers, normally if you provide some floating bushy plants and other bushy plants in the tank, the fry would be able to hid in the plants to avoid being eaten. Unless you have a way to rehome most of the fry, you don't want them all surviving anyhow or you'd run out of tank space very quickly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fry divider for tank My platy had babies and i had them in a floating net. Most died. Someone told me to get a tank divider. I asked at the pet store and they had not heard of one. Where can I get one or is it something that we can make out of plexiglass or some other material? Viv No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28648	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Plant question

Do you test your nitrate levels in your tanks prior to doing PWC'c? As you may know, nitrate is the end phase of the nitrogen cycle and plants utilize nitrates, phosphates and other elements for food sources. In the "dirtier" tanks, the nitrate levels are probably higher so the plants have plenty to eat. In your well maintained tank, your nitrate levels may be too low so the plants are starving. You can use a plant fertilizer in your well maintained tank to supplement the plants. Many people with heavily planted tanks and limited number of fish have to dose their tanks on a regular basis to "feed" the plants. Give us more details on the tank size, light bulb type and wattage, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 2:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant question Ok Im not sure what kind of plants these are they are long, thick, almost plush vine like plants. One is about 4 foot long with other pieces vining out down it and the other is about 2 foot long they each only have one root, they are pretty almost look fake. In my tank with my angels that has an aquarium/plant light the plants all seem to eventually wilt and die (this happened with my frog bit also. I clean this tank and do PWC 2 times a week. Now in my other tank with my platys which I clean and do PWC every couple of months and which has a normal cheap bulb in it the plants do great. They also do excellent in my sons tank which is basically on the same schedule and has the same lighting as my platy tank. Why is this? Could it be the aquarium/plant bulb is too much for them? Maybe they do not get enough nutrients because of how often I clean it and do PWC's? Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I love these plants and do not want to lose them. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: Can painting bother the fish ?

You should "tent" the tank with a plastic garbage bag or plastic drop cloth and tape the bottom edge of the plastic to the glass of the tank all the way around so that none of the fumes can get into the tank. If you have an air pump, either put it inside the "tent" or put it outside (if you have enough airline hose) so that it is sucking in fresh air and pumping that into your tank. The pump being outside will also cause an increased pressure inside the "tent" so it will kind of blow up a little and this will further keep any fumes out. Your filter system should be inside the "tent" also and should be kept running. You could put some fresh carbon in your filter which will also aid in filtering any possible paint fumes that might get into the water. You never want to leave your filter system turned off for more than an hour or two as the good bacteria will begin to die off and the water in the reservoir will become stagnant and toxic. If you ever do have a power issue where your filter is off for more than an hour or two, you should unplug it and do filter maintenance after the power is back on and start off fresh. You may have a mini-cycle but at least you won't be pumping toxic water into your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can painting bother the fish ? I have to paint the entire wall right behind my tank. I can only move it out just enough for my had to get back behind where the tank is. I was wondering if the fumes will bother them and would it be wise to unplug the biowheel filter while I am painting? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28650	From: Jasmine	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Your not ignored - i'm just sick and not on the computer at present

Hi all Just letting you know that I haven't ignored the postings everyone has put up for me to read, its just that I've managed to pick up a really bad cold at present so I'm not on the computer. I will get around to reading all the post when I get better. Thanks again for all your help. Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28651	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: house water, aquariums and a hatchery in Area 51

I tried YellowPages.com and Mapquest and noone seems to have this hatchery in Brentwood, NY. There are plenty of fish markets but no hatchery. Maybe they were just feeding me ??????? im not sure. As for the water conditioner, I just picked up a 16oz bottle of API tap water conditioner. (I didnt see the Topfin brand either that was labeled to removed heavy metals). Its a great product. I need to use only a quarter of what I normally would with other water conditioners. With Aquachem I went through a 160z bottle just to do a fishless cycle. Thanks for the recommendation!!!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What is the name of the "next town over"? I'm sure a Google of that town > name and "tropical fish" would disclose the name/location of the hatchery... > presuming they do business over the net. > > As far as your water, if you are going to use the completely filtered water, > you should probably add a supplement to the tank. Something like "Kent's > R/O Right". It's 30% off at DrsFosterSmith.com right now. > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm? c=3578+4395+4128&pcat > id=4128 They sell a liquid formula also. > > If you go without the filtered water, just make sure you use a dechlor > product that also treats heavy metals. I normally use API's Tap Water > Conditioner but PetsMart didn't sell the 16 oz size so I checked out all the > things they did sell and PetsMart's brand, TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator > was comparable to API.. possibly even made by API. They are both more > concentrated than some of the other brands so it only takes 1ml per 10G > where some other brands use 5ml or even 10ml per 10G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28652	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2008
Subject: Re: house water, aquariums and a hatchery in Area 51

I did a quick Google and found two wholesalers/distributors in Brentwood, New York. 1) The website isn't accessible, except to vendors, but I found this snip on another site.... As posted on their website http://www.RoyalPetSupplies.com, "Royal Pet Supplies, founded over 55 years ago, is the pre-eminent pet product distributor in the eastern United States. Employing over 400 employees in its 2 locations in Brentwood, New York and Pompano Beach, Florida, Royal Pet Supplies supports independent pet stores nationally." 2) I couldn't find a website on this one or it's affiliated companies but here's their phone listing... NATIONAL FISH DISTRBTR, 631-273-9393. 355 Crooked Hill Rd Brentwood, New York 11717. They also have listings for All Pet Distributors and All Pet Tropical Fish at the same address. http://1587.yippie.biz/ny/brentwood/ I'm glad you found the 16oz bottle of API's brand. It's a great dechlor product and comparably priced to products that aren't nearly as concentrated. As far as the TopFin from PetsMart, I'm looking at my 8 oz. bottle of it right now and it says on the front label, "TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator... removes chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals". I do remember that was another product.. maybe called Tap Water Treatment or something like that that was not the concentrated product and it didn't mention heavy metals either but I've been using the product for several PWC's now with no problems. One last note.. remember when shopping at PetsMart local stores, always go to their website http://www.PetsMart.com first and print the page with the online price of the products you are interested in, as the local stores will match the online prices if you show the cashier the printed page. I save 30-50% off the shelf price this way. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: house water, aquariums and a hatchery in Area 51 I tried YellowPages.com and Mapquest and noone seems to have this hatchery in Brentwood, NY. There are plenty of fish markets but no hatchery. Maybe they were just feeding me ??????? im not sure. As for the water conditioner, I just picked up a 16oz bottle of API tap water conditioner. (I didnt see the Topfin brand either that was labeled to removed heavy metals). Its a great product. I need to use only a quarter of what I normally would with other water conditioners. With Aquachem I went through a 160z bottle just to do a fishless cycle. Thanks for the recommendation!!!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What is the name of the "next town over"? I'm sure a Google of that town > name and "tropical fish" would disclose the name/location of the hatchery... > presuming they do business over the net. > > As far as your water, if you are going to use the completely filtered water, > you should probably add a supplement to the tank. Something like "Kent's > R/O Right". It's 30% off at DrsFosterSmith.com right now. > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm? > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?> c=3578+4395+4128&pcat > id=4128 They sell a liquid formula also. > > If you go without the filtered water, just make sure you use a dechlor > product that also treats heavy metals. I normally use API's Tap Water > Conditioner but PetsMart didn't sell the 16 oz size so I checked out all the > things they did sell and PetsMart's brand, TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator > was comparable to API.. possibly even made by API. They are both more > concentrated than some of the other brands so it only takes 1ml per 10G > where some other brands use 5ml or even 10ml per 10G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28653	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Manage et trois en angel?

Excuse my French... however, at 230 AM I observed my gold veil tale angels spawning. Not a pair, but a trio... TRIO? Yep, and Im not imagining it. They are spawning on the back of an amazon sword plant. Its in a shaded area, so I cant see if there are eggs or not. However, I do plainly see the gliding up and down on the plants, and one angel has a larger sex organ then the others. Sorry, I dont remember the name of the sex organs of the male and females. I have spawned angels before. However, I have never seen an angel trio. No fighting, or bickering, just gliding up and down the leaf of the sword plant. Time to say g'night ... NO! Lets get the video camera!!!! Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28654	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Plant question

Lenny's got a good point. I have to dose my heavily planted tanks every other day. Not sure what type of plant you're talking about but has it been in the Angel tank much longer than the others? It's possible that what you have isn't a true aquatic plant. Some plants will do ok submerged for a while but then die off. Maybe you could try to get a picture? More info on the bulb, as Lenny said, would help. Kate --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant question To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 7:47 PM Do you test your nitrate levels in your tanks prior to doing PWC'c? As you may know, nitrate is the end phase of the nitrogen cycle and plants utilize nitrates, phosphates and other elements for food sources. In the "dirtier" tanks, the nitrate levels are probably higher so the plants have plenty to eat. In your well maintained tank, your nitrate levels may be too low so the plants are starving. You can use a plant fertilizer in your well maintained tank to supplement the plants. Many people with heavily planted tanks and limited number of fish have to dose their tanks on a regular basis to "feed" the plants. Give us more details on the tank size, light bulb type and wattage, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 2:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant question Ok Im not sure what kind of plants these are they are long, thick, almost plush vine like plants. One is about 4 foot long with other pieces vining out down it and the other is about 2 foot long they each only have one root, they are pretty almost look fake. In my tank with my angels that has an aquarium/plant light the plants all seem to eventually wilt and die (this happened with my frog bit also. I clean this tank and do PWC 2 times a week. Now in my other tank with my platys which I clean and do PWC every couple of months and which has a normal cheap bulb in it the plants do great. They also do excellent in my sons tank which is basically on the same schedule and has the same lighting as my platy tank. Why is this? Could it be the aquarium/plant bulb is too much for them? Maybe they do not get enough nutrients because of how often I clean it and do PWC's? Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I love these plants and do not want to lose them. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.9/1548 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 7:40 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28655	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise

I'm glad it's a Sunday, somebody will hopefully have enough time to give me detailed answers. I'm breaking my 20 g down this week, to remove the polyster layer between the gravel and the UGF plate for good. Then I'll set it up again in the same day. It's my first time to fully clean a tank since I knew about the nitrogen cycle and the N-Bacteria. I used to lose at least one of my fish every single time I fully cleaned the tank, and didn't know why. That's because I rinsed the gravel under untreated tap water, and also the internal power head filter. So I need to be really careful this time to keep a good portion of my N-Bacteria alive. Here's the information: *I have two filters: Internal "with power head" and UGF "also with a power head". * Layers, from the buttom: UGF plate covers all the buttom - polyster layer "will be thrown away" - Small and medium sized gravel. * There are decorations: live plants, drift wood, rocks. * The volume of the water is about 16 g. * There's an empty 15 gallon tank that can be cleaned from dust and old gravel and be used to house the fish while cleaning. Note: There's a photo of my tank in the photo section. http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1 If the link breaks, just look for the album :(20G Planted fish tank- By Noura) I need a plan for cleaning with the minimum loss of the N-bacteria, especially in the gravel, I can keep the internal filter without cleaning for a week after breaking the tank down. The gravel will need a LOT of water to clean, because I wasn't siphoning it at all (I didn't even know it needs siphoning untill I joined you, and there are no tank siphons in the country), so you can imagine the mulm of the overstocked tank. And, how much of the old tank water should I put back after cleaning? I have TWO 4 gallon chemical-clean buckets, and a long hose. The sooner you reply the better, I'm planning to do it today as my daughter is visiting her grandmother! Thanks for the advise Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28656	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Something *ate* my filter media?!?

I just wanted to post an update on this... I got the supplies (they took quite a bit longer than I thought with the web order) and got right to cutting the poly-pad. It is *very* nice, thick material, especially compared to the biobag I was using! I was able to make a continuous cut that wrapped just perfect around the whisper bio foam insert and it fits into the filter better than I could have ever expected. I'm not as thrilled with the whisper bio foam kit - the foam itself is nice but the plastic bracket it came in is very flimsy and one piece had already snapped. At least the snap occurred on the front and not the side so I can still use it. I set everything up and got the tank filtering and was very impressed at how good a job the poly-pad was doing getting stuff out of the water. I ended up running it for several hours and then rinsing the poly-pad out, repeated 3 times. The water is almost crystal clear now and tests just perfect - no ammonia, no nitrite and just a tiny amount of nitrate, even though the filter wasn't running for at least a week. I added a cap of seachem stability just to make sure, since I had some left from when I first started the tank. Unfortunately, one of the betta girls (OG) kicked the bucket while I was waiting for the supplies. No visible problems, nothing wrong with her water, just woke up one morning and she wasn't moving anymore. :/ She was a lovely orange color - the only orange I'd ever seen and I was told on a betta list the reason why is because orange is "new" and the gals are usually kept for breeding so my best guess is she passed of old age. Now my SO has no fish in the tank and doesn't want another (I don't blame him, it was awfully sudden that OG passed). The rest of the betta girls did just fine during the evacuation. They have been reintroduced to the tank and are very happy to stretch their fins again. I'm very happy to have them situated as I'm due to give birth to my first baby on the 15th. :) I'll probably be AFK for a while after that so I figured I'd post an update while I could! -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 9:18 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > I was thinking that it wouldn't be enough power for one, but it didn't dawn > on me that it might not be enough power for either! I'll just grab the > poly-pad and foam: I'm sure it'll be MUCH better than the biobag that I was > using! > > Thanks so much, > > -Lana > > "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb > > On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:09 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@...> wrote: > >> You may not be able to go with the micron filtration media. I use that in >> my canister filter systems but they have a lot more power and are closed >> systems so they "force" the water through the micron polishing pads. I'm >> not sure an HOB filter or an in-tank filter would work with that type of >> filter media. The blue/white poly-pad is a dual layer with one having a >> denser mesh than the other so it does a good job of catching most stuff. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28657	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise

The polyester layer is going to have a lot of your bacteria. Did Lenny or Steve or Ray advise this step? I think I would probably not do that until you are ready to replace the UGF with a power filter. But I haven't had a UGF for 30 years, so Lenny, Steve or Ray might know better about that. Meanwhile, define the term "fully clean". To fully clean a tank, you should siphon the gravel (all you need is a hose), scrape the glass and replace 50% of the water with fresh. Nothing more. No need to remove all the water, just 50%. If you think the remaining 50% of the water will get too dirty given the condition of the gravel, do it twice. In other words, siphon the gravel while removing 50% of the water and refill. Then do it again. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise I'm glad it's a Sunday, somebody will hopefully have enough time to give me detailed answers. I'm breaking my 20 g down this week, to remove the polyster layer between the gravel and the UGF plate for good. Then I'll set it up again in the same day. It's my first time to fully clean a tank since I knew about the nitrogen cycle and the N-Bacteria. I used to lose at least one of my fish every single time I fully cleaned the tank, and didn't know why. That's because I rinsed the gravel under untreated tap water, and also the internal power head filter. So I need to be really careful this time to keep a good portion of my N-Bacteria alive. Here's the information: *I have two filters: Internal "with power head" and UGF "also with a power head". * Layers, from the buttom: UGF plate covers all the buttom - polyster layer "will be thrown away" - Small and medium sized gravel. * There are decorations: live plants, drift wood, rocks. * The volume of the water is about 16 g. * There's an empty 15 gallon tank that can be cleaned from dust and old gravel and be used to house the fish while cleaning. Note: There's a photo of my tank in the photo section. http://pets. <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1> ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1 If the link breaks, just look for the album :(20G Planted fish tank- By Noura) I need a plan for cleaning with the minimum loss of the N-bacteria, especially in the gravel, I can keep the internal filter without cleaning for a week after breaking the tank down. The gravel will need a LOT of water to clean, because I wasn't siphoning it at all (I didn't even know it needs siphoning untill I joined you, and there are no tank siphons in the country), so you can imagine the mulm of the overstocked tank. And, how much of the old tank water should I put back after cleaning? I have TWO 4 gallon chemical-clean buckets, and a long hose. The sooner you reply the better, I'm planning to do it today as my daughter is visiting her grandmother! Thanks for the advise Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28658	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise

Well, if I were going to do that, I probably wouldn't change any of the filter materal except, of course, for that which is under teh gravel. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: N Taweel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 8:46 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise I'm glad it's a Sunday, somebody will hopefully have enough time to give me detailed answers. I'm breaking my 20 g down this week, to remove the polyster layer between the gravel and the UGF plate for good. Then I'll set it up again in the same day. It's my first time to fully clean a tank since I knew about the nitrogen cycle and the N-Bacteria. I used to lose at least one of my fish every single time I fully cleaned the tank, and didn't know why. That's because I rinsed the gravel under untreated tap water, and also the internal power head filter. So I need to be really careful this time to keep a good portion of my N-Bacteria alive. Here's the information: *I have two filters: Internal "with power head" and UGF "also with a power head". * Layers, from the buttom: UGF plate covers all the buttom - polyster layer "will be thrown away" - Small and medium sized gravel. * There are decorations: live plants, drift wood, rocks. * The volume of the water is about 16 g. * There's an empty 15 gallon tank that can be cleaned from dust and old gravel and be used to house the fish while cleaning. Note: There's a photo of my tank in the photo section. http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1 If the link breaks, just look for the album :(20G Planted fish tank- By Noura) I need a plan for cleaning with the minimum loss of the N-bacteria, especially in the gravel, I can keep the internal filter without cleaning for a week after breaking the tank down. The gravel will need a LOT of water to clean, because I wasn't siphoning it at all (I didn't even know it needs siphoning untill I joined you, and there are no tank siphons in the country), so you can imagine the mulm of the overstocked tank. And, how much of the old tank water should I put back after cleaning? I have TWO 4 gallon chemical-clean buckets, and a long hose. The sooner you reply the better, I'm planning to do it today as my daughter is visiting her grandmother! Thanks for the advise Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1549 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 4:31 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28659	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise

Well, I think you just answered what to do with my gravel. I had thought repeating the process too drastic, and that would very likely help substantially. And maybe N's too, I don't know. He specified that he's actually taking everthig apart and cleaning it, and in his case a particular issue could be the undergravel filter. I understand that they're a bear to clean WITHOUT removing them and hte gravel, if it is even possible. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 11:51 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise The polyester layer is going to have a lot of your bacteria. Did Lenny or Steve or Ray advise this step? I think I would probably not do that until you are ready to replace the UGF with a power filter. But I haven't had a UGF for 30 years, so Lenny, Steve or Ray might know better about that. Meanwhile, define the term "fully clean". To fully clean a tank, you should siphon the gravel (all you need is a hose), scrape the glass and replace 50% of the water with fresh. Nothing more. No need to remove all the water, just 50%. If you think the remaining 50% of the water will get too dirty given the condition of the gravel, do it twice. In other words, siphon the gravel while removing 50% of the water and refill. Then do it again. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise I'm glad it's a Sunday, somebody will hopefully have enough time to give me detailed answers. I'm breaking my 20 g down this week, to remove the polyster layer between the gravel and the UGF plate for good. Then I'll set it up again in the same day. It's my first time to fully clean a tank since I knew about the nitrogen cycle and the N-Bacteria. I used to lose at least one of my fish every single time I fully cleaned the tank, and didn't know why. That's because I rinsed the gravel under untreated tap water, and also the internal power head filter. So I need to be really careful this time to keep a good portion of my N-Bacteria alive. Here's the information: *I have two filters: Internal "with power head" and UGF "also with a power head". * Layers, from the buttom: UGF plate covers all the buttom - polyster layer "will be thrown away" - Small and medium sized gravel. * There are decorations: live plants, drift wood, rocks. * The volume of the water is about 16 g. * There's an empty 15 gallon tank that can be cleaned from dust and old gravel and be used to house the fish while cleaning. Note: There's a photo of my tank in the photo section. http://pets. <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1> ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1 If the link breaks, just look for the album :(20G Planted fish tank- By Noura) I need a plan for cleaning with the minimum loss of the N-bacteria, especially in the gravel, I can keep the internal filter without cleaning for a week after breaking the tank down. The gravel will need a LOT of water to clean, because I wasn't siphoning it at all (I didn't even know it needs siphoning untill I joined you, and there are no tank siphons in the country), so you can imagine the mulm of the overstocked tank. And, how much of the old tank water should I put back after cleaning? I have TWO 4 gallon chemical-clean buckets, and a long hose. The sooner you reply the better, I'm planning to do it today as my daughter is visiting her grandmother! Thanks for the advise Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1549 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 4:31 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28660	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise

Right, so my reply is “don’t do that”. But again, I could be wrong. If Lenny or Steve or Ray advised “N” to do what she is doing, then go with their advice. If you are going to take the tank apart, remove the UGF forever and replace with a different type of filter. If you are going to keep the UGF, don’t bother. Just clean from the gravel up. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise Well, I think you just answered what to do with my gravel. I had thought repeating the process too drastic, and that would very likely help substantially. And maybe N's too, I don't know. He specified that he's actually taking everthig apart and cleaning it, and in his case a particular issue could be the undergravel filter. I understand that they're a bear to clean WITHOUT removing them and hte gravel, if it is even possible. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 11:51 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise The polyester layer is going to have a lot of your bacteria. Did Lenny or Steve or Ray advise this step? I think I would probably not do that until you are ready to replace the UGF with a power filter. But I haven't had a UGF for 30 years, so Lenny, Steve or Ray might know better about that. Meanwhile, define the term "fully clean". To fully clean a tank, you should siphon the gravel (all you need is a hose), scrape the glass and replace 50% of the water with fresh. Nothing more. No need to remove all the water, just 50%. If you think the remaining 50% of the water will get too dirty given the condition of the gravel, do it twice. In other words, siphon the gravel while removing 50% of the water and refill. Then do it again. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise I'm glad it's a Sunday, somebody will hopefully have enough time to give me detailed answers. I'm breaking my 20 g down this week, to remove the polyster layer between the gravel and the UGF plate for good. Then I'll set it up again in the same day. It's my first time to fully clean a tank since I knew about the nitrogen cycle and the N-Bacteria. I used to lose at least one of my fish every single time I fully cleaned the tank, and didn't know why. That's because I rinsed the gravel under untreated tap water, and also the internal power head filter. So I need to be really careful this time to keep a good portion of my N-Bacteria alive. Here's the information: *I have two filters: Internal "with power head" and UGF "also with a power head". * Layers, from the buttom: UGF plate covers all the buttom - polyster layer "will be thrown away" - Small and medium sized gravel. * There are decorations: live plants, drift wood, rocks. * The volume of the water is about 16 g. * There's an empty 15 gallon tank that can be cleaned from dust and old gravel and be used to house the fish while cleaning. Note: There's a photo of my tank in the photo section. http://pets. <http://pets. <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1> ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1> ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1 If the link breaks, just look for the album :(20G Planted fish tank- By Noura) I need a plan for cleaning with the minimum loss of the N-bacteria, especially in the gravel, I can keep the internal filter without cleaning for a week after breaking the tank down. The gravel will need a LOT of water to clean, because I wasn't siphoning it at all (I didn't even know it needs siphoning untill I joined you, and there are no tank siphons in the country), so you can imagine the mulm of the overstocked tank. And, how much of the old tank water should I put back after cleaning? I have TWO 4 gallon chemical-clean buckets, and a long hose. The sooner you reply the better, I'm planning to do it today as my daughter is visiting her grandmother! Thanks for the advise Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1549 - Release Date: 7/12/2008 4:31 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28661	From: pam andress	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise

I got a used 55 gal tank and it was taken down the day I picked it up. I took the UGF out when I got the tank home and started to fill it. The water was so filthy, I had to drain the tank and refill. I'm not sure how many times I had to take water out to refill it. It was totally empty of water when I brought it home. There was so much crud in the gravel you couldn't see thru the water. After the water was somewhat see thru, I filled and put my filter on. I think I only waited a day before adding fish as the water was fine. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: djransome@...: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:32:28 -0400Subject: RE: Re: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise Right, so my reply is �don�t do that�. But again, I could be wrong. IfLenny or Steve or Ray advised �N� to do what she is doing, then go withtheir advice.If you are going to take the tank apart, remove the UGF forever and replacewith a different type of filter.If you are going to keep the UGF, don�t bother. Just clean from the gravelup._____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Dora SmithSent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 2:04 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-NeedAdviseWell, I think you just answered what to do with my gravel. I had thoughtrepeating the process too drastic, and that would very likely helpsubstantially. And maybe N's too, I don't know. He specified that he'sactually taking everthig apart and cleaning it, and in his case a particularissue could be the undergravel filter. I understand that they're a bear toclean WITHOUT removing them and hte gravel, if it is even possible.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 11:51 AMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need AdviseThe polyester layer is going to have a lot of your bacteria. Did Lenny orSteve or Ray advise this step?I think I would probably not do that until you are ready to replace the UGFwith a power filter. But I haven't had a UGF for 30 years, so Lenny, Steveor Ray might know better about that.Meanwhile, define the term "fully clean". To fully clean a tank, you shouldsiphon the gravel (all you need is a hose), scrape the glass and replace 50%of the water with fresh. Nothing more. No need to remove all the water,just 50%.If you think the remaining 50% of the water will get too dirty given thecondition of the gravel, do it twice. In other words, siphon the gravelwhile removing 50% of the water and refill. Then do it again._____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com[mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]OnBehalf Of N TaweelSent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:46 AMTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need AdviseI'm glad it's a Sunday, somebody will hopefully have enough time to give medetailed answers.I'm breaking my 20 g down this week, to remove the polyster layer betweenthe gravel and the UGF plate for good. Then I'll set it up again in the sameday.It's my first time to fully clean a tank since I knew about the nitrogencycle and the N-Bacteria. I used to lose at least one of my fish everysingle time I fully cleaned the tank, and didn't know why. That's because Irinsed the gravel under untreated tap water, and also the internal powerhead filter. So I need to be really careful this time to keep a good portion of myN-Bacteria alive.Here's the information: *I have two filters: Internal "with power head" and UGF "also with a powerhead".* Layers, from the buttom: UGF plate covers all the buttom - polyster layer"will be thrown away" - Small and medium sized gravel.* There are decorations: live plants, drift wood, rocks.* The volume of the water is about 16 g.* There's an empty 15 gallon tank that can be cleaned from dust and oldgravel and be used to house the fish while cleaning.Note: There's a photo of my tank in the photo section.http://pets.<http://pets.<http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1>ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1>ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1If the link breaks, just look for the album :(20G Planted fish tank- ByNoura)I need a plan for cleaning with the minimum loss of the N-bacteria,especially in the gravel, I can keep the internal filter without cleaningfor a week after breaking the tank down. The gravel will need a LOT of waterto clean, because I wasn't siphoning it at all (I didn't even know it needssiphoning untill I joined you, and there are no tank siphons in thecountry), so you can imagine the mulm of the overstocked tank. And, how much of the old tank water should I put back after cleaning? I have TWO 4 gallon chemical-clean buckets, and a long hose.The sooner you reply the better, I'm planning to do it today as my daughteris visiting her grandmother!Thanks for the adviseNoura[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]----------------------------------------------------------No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1549 - Release Date: 7/12/20084:31 PM[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28662	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise

Actually, Steve advised removing the polyster layer. I'm still keeping that message :) He wrote: "With the layer of glass wool between the gravel and the UGF (UnderGravel Filter), the health of your filter becomes problematic. Eventually, that layer will become clogged, and there is no good way to clean it without completely removing the substrate and replacing it. The failure of this layer will probably take some time to be discovered, which will not be good for your fish. When it is convenient, you should remove this glass wool from your set up." I've had serious problems with fish health lately, although I'm doing more than one PWC aweek, so all I can blame is that polyster layer, it should be already clogged as the tank was set and overstocked for almost a year. And I DO have a power filter, I explained in my message. The two internal and UG filters are up and running with power heads. Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28663	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise

Yes Dora, I am planning to take everything apart. The only goal is to remove the polyster forever "see my previous message for further explanation". I'm sure that the water will turn BLACK, not just brownish, when I pull the polyster out. And the gravel will probably be impossible to clean with the usual siphoning in this case. I delayed the break down untill the next weekend, but I cleaned the empty dry 15 g old tank and its gravel, to be ready to house the fish while cleaning the 20g. So I have plenty of time to hear all your opinions. I'll probably fill 50% of it with tap water and put a power filter to aerate and kick the chorine out. Here's my cleaning plan: - Unplug - Remove the wooden and glass covers. - Transfer 50% of the water from the 20g to the 15g - Transfer the internal power head, fish, and decorations to the 15g. - Fill a bucket with the tank water to use for cleaning the gravel. - Empty the gravel, rinse it with the removed tank water (I have a problem here, the gravel will be extra dirty and I have so little tank water to use for cleaning it) - Throw the polyster, pull out the UGF plate. - clean the tank. - Set everything back again, using the same removed tank water (that was kept in the 15g), and filling the little remaining volume with treated tap water. Any advise on how to clean a very dirty gravel with little water (about 5-6 gallons) to avoid a mini-cycle? Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:32 PM Subject: RE: Re: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise Right, so my reply is “don’t do that”. But again, I could be wrong. If Lenny or Steve or Ray advised “N” to do what she is doing, then go with their advice. If you are going to take the tank apart, remove the UGF forever and replace with a different type of filter. If you are going to keep the UGF, don’t bother. Just clean from the gravel up. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise Well, I think you just answered what to do with my gravel. I had thought repeating the process too drastic, and that would very likely help substantially. And maybe N's too, I don't know. He specified that he's actually taking everthig apart and cleaning it, and in his case a particular issue could be the undergravel filter. I understand that they're a bear to clean WITHOUT removing them and hte gravel, if it is even possible. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28664	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise

Oh, I thought a power head was different than a power filter. So then why wouldn't you remove the UGF entirely? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 7:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise Actually, Steve advised removing the polyster layer. I'm still keeping that message :) He wrote: "With the layer of glass wool between the gravel and the UGF (UnderGravel Filter), the health of your filter becomes problematic. Eventually, that layer will become clogged, and there is no good way to clean it without completely removing the substrate and replacing it. The failure of this layer will probably take some time to be discovered, which will not be good for your fish. When it is convenient, you should remove this glass wool from your set up." I've had serious problems with fish health lately, although I'm doing more than one PWC aweek, so all I can blame is that polyster layer, it should be already clogged as the tank was set and overstocked for almost a year. And I DO have a power filter, I explained in my message. The two internal and UG filters are up and running with power heads. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28665	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise

You can clean the very dirty gravel with fresh water, just treat with dechlorinator first. If you are too energetic with the gravel, you will kill the bio filter. I’d probably siphon out as much crud as possible in your bucket, adding clean water treated with dechlor as required. And then maybe a swish or two in the chlorine-free water before it is put back. The bacteria live mostly on the surface of the gravel where it is constantly oxygenated. You can’t really keep the same layer on top when you remove and replace it. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 7:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise Yes Dora, I am planning to take everything apart. The only goal is to remove the polyster forever "see my previous message for further explanation". I'm sure that the water will turn BLACK, not just brownish, when I pull the polyster out. And the gravel will probably be impossible to clean with the usual siphoning in this case. I delayed the break down untill the next weekend, but I cleaned the empty dry 15 g old tank and its gravel, to be ready to house the fish while cleaning the 20g. So I have plenty of time to hear all your opinions. I'll probably fill 50% of it with tap water and put a power filter to aerate and kick the chorine out. Here's my cleaning plan: - Unplug - Remove the wooden and glass covers. - Transfer 50% of the water from the 20g to the 15g - Transfer the internal power head, fish, and decorations to the 15g. - Fill a bucket with the tank water to use for cleaning the gravel. - Empty the gravel, rinse it with the removed tank water (I have a problem here, the gravel will be extra dirty and I have so little tank water to use for cleaning it) - Throw the polyster, pull out the UGF plate. - clean the tank. - Set everything back again, using the same removed tank water (that was kept in the 15g), and filling the little remaining volume with treated tap water. Any advise on how to clean a very dirty gravel with little water (about 5-6 gallons) to avoid a mini-cycle? Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:32 PM Subject: RE: Re: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise Right, so my reply is “don’t do that”. But again, I could be wrong. If Lenny or Steve or Ray advised “N” to do what she is doing, then go with their advice. If you are going to take the tank apart, remove the UGF forever and replace with a different type of filter. If you are going to keep the UGF, don’t bother. Just clean from the gravel up. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise Well, I think you just answered what to do with my gravel. I had thought repeating the process too drastic, and that would very likely help substantially. And maybe N's too, I don't know. He specified that he's actually taking everthig apart and cleaning it, and in his case a particular issue could be the undergravel filter. I understand that they're a bear to clean WITHOUT removing them and hte gravel, if it is even possible. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28666	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise

Nooura, You need to make up your mind whether you will keep using the UGF or if you will go with an outside filter prior to breaking down the tank. I would argue for the outside filter. If you follow that path, you will need several weeks to prepare for it. Get an outside filter, and start running it in your tank. Also get an air driven sponge filter and set it in the tank or another tank (better). You'll need to run both for a few weeks to build up the bacteria you need for the cycle to occur with little or no disruption. This next section deals with both ways: You should save as much of the water as possible. I see that you can save roughly 8 gallons right now, but more would be better. Start by removing all your decorative material s in the tank--rocks, plants, bubbling sunken ships, whatever. Turn off your filters & heater. Siphon out some of the water into the buckets. If you have no other tank to move your fish--place them in the buckets, and cover the buckets so they do not jump out. If you have more containers for the water, remove more water until you have only 4-5 gallons left in the tank. Remove the gravel, stirring it up to loosen the detritus that is in the gravel bed. Yes, the water will get really dirty, but you do not care about that right now. Despite what others have said in this thread, ALL of the substrate will have the nitro* bacteria living on the surface, not just the surface of the substrate. You WILL lose some during this process, but that cannot be avoided. Once you have removed as much of the gravel as you can, don't worry about leaving some behind, and placed it in a container, or containers to keep it damp, You can remove the polyester. The polyester will also contain bacteria, and you will be losing those bacteria. If you are going to remove the UGF, remove it. Place the gravel back into the tank, and, if needed, add more gravel to give you a good depth for your live plants, if you have any. Add about half the water you need, place your décor back in, add the fish and the rest of the water, and restart your equipment. Sorry I am not going into it further, but my hand is still recovering and I think I am surpassing my typing limit for the day. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise I'm glad it's a Sunday, somebody will hopefully have enough time to give me detailed answers. I'm breaking my 20 g down this week, to remove the polyster layer between the gravel and the UGF plate for good. Then I'll set it up again in the same day. It's my first time to fully clean a tank since I knew about the nitrogen cycle and the N-Bacteria. I used to lose at least one of my fish every single time I fully cleaned the tank, and didn't know why. That's because I rinsed the gravel under untreated tap water, and also the internal power head filter. So I need to be really careful this time to keep a good portion of my N-Bacteria alive. Here's the information: *I have two filters: Internal "with power head" and UGF "also with a power head". * Layers, from the buttom: UGF plate covers all the buttom - polyster layer "will be thrown away" - Small and medium sized gravel. * There are decorations: live plants, drift wood, rocks. * The volume of the water is about 16 g. * There's an empty 15 gallon tank that can be cleaned from dust and old gravel and be used to house the fish while cleaning. Note: There's a photo of my tank in the photo section. http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/e87a?b=1 If the link breaks, just look for the album :(20G Planted fish tank- By Noura) I need a plan for cleaning with the minimum loss of the N-bacteria, especially in the gravel, I can keep the internal filter without cleaning for a week after breaking the tank down. The gravel will need a LOT of water to clean, because I wasn't siphoning it at all (I didn't even know it needs siphoning untill I joined you, and there are no tank siphons in the country), so you can imagine the mulm of the overstocked tank. And, how much of the old tank water should I put back after cleaning? I have TWO 4 gallon chemical-clean buckets, and a long hose. The sooner you reply the better, I'm planning to do it today as my daughter is visiting her grandmother! Thanks for the advise Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28667	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/13/2008
Subject: new used 2227 Help!

I just purchased a used Eheim 2227 Pro with everything for $50. Yup 50 bux!! The guy took down his reef tank. I asked if this filter is ok for fresh water and he gave me the go ahead. The Eheim site confimed this. This filter is really neat the way it pulsates and makes waves. I currently have it running on an empty 55 gallon tank checking both the filter and tank for leaks. I would like to know if there are filter pads available for this filter. Right now it has what appear to be Ehfisubstrat in the bottom tray and ehfisubstrat mixed with a handful of ceramic rings (???) in the top tray. Is this supposed to handle all 3 of my tanks filtration needs (M,C,B)?? I am just used to having floss carbon and biowheels so im not sure. Any site I look at shows me just the ehfisubstrat is to be used. Help!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28668	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise

To keep an oxygen-rich water flow through the gravel, to avoid the growth of harmful bacteria, especially that I can't mainten the gravel properly (time issues). And, to help the internal power filter in cleaning the overstocked tank's water. Plus, I need the extra number of N-bacteria inside the gravel to handle the nitrite load. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 3:07 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Breaking Down the Tank-Need Advise Oh, I thought a power head was different than a power filter. So then why wouldn't you remove the UGF entirely?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28669	From: rul_s008	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: OPEN WATER FISHERIES SPECIES

OPEN WATER FISHERIES SPECIES 1. Climbing perches : Anabas testudineus 2. Eels : Anguilla spp 3. Asian redtail catfish : Mystus nemurus 4. Catfish : Mystus nigriceps 5. Three spot gourami : Trichogaster trichopterus 6. Snakeskin gourami : Trichogaster pectoralis 7. Snakehead murrel : Channa striata 8. Giant snakehead : Channa micropeltes 9. Mozambique tilapia : Oreochromis mossambicus 10. Nile tilapia : Oreochromis niloticus 11. Walking catfish : Clarias batrachus 12. Clown loach : Botia macracanthus 13. Sucker barb : Barbichthys laevis 14. Spotted barb : Puntius binotatus 15. Hampala barb : Hampala macrolepidota 16. Mud barb : Leptobarbus hoevenii 17. Grass carp : Ctenopharyngodon idellus 18. Glass fish : Parachela oxygastroides 19. Signal barb : Labiobarbus festivus 20. Common carp : Cyprinus carpio 21. Silver sharkminnow : Osteochilus hasseltii 22. Silver rasbora : Rasbora argyrotaenia 23. Tinfoil barb : Barbodes schwanenfeldii 24. River carp : Tor douronensis 25. Beardless barb : Cyclocheilichthys apogon 26. Java carp, java barb : Barbodes gonionotus 27. Marble goby : Oxyeleotris marmorata 28. Kissing gouramis : Helostoma temmincki 29. Featherbacks : Chitala lopis 30. Giant gouramis : Osphronemus goramy 31. Asian bonytongue : Scleropages formosus 32. Cat fishes : Pangasius djambal 33. Mud perches : Pristolepis fasciata 34. Catfish : Kryptopterus apogon 35. Butter catfish : Ompok bimaculatus

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28670	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: What kind of plant is this?

Not sure if this will allow me to send pictures inserted from my blackjack but figured I would try. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28672	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Someone who knows about danios....

3 of my Zebra Danios are doing this crazy smooth like dance all around the tank especially in this live fuzzy moss plant I have in the bottom of the tank. Its two males and one female. Are they mating or should I be worried. Its looks like they are waltzing very fast all over the tank! Ive never seen it before but its actually pretty but fast paced and crazy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28673	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....

For ZD's, it's better to have at least two females for every male as the males will chase the female during mating season.. sometimes nipping her tail fin so she can't get away. It could be the beginning of this phase. Did you just do a PWC? Normally, a change in water parameters and temperature can be a trigger to mating... like the rainy season or spring temperatures that might happen in the wild. You should be prepared to put the two males or one female into a breeder net or separate tank for safety purposes if fin nipping becomes a problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H3ATH3R Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... 3 of my Zebra Danios are doing this crazy smooth like dance all around the tank especially in this live fuzzy moss plant I have in the bottom of the tank. Its two males and one female. Are they mating or should I be worried. Its looks like they are waltzing very fast all over the tank! Ive never seen it before but its actually pretty but fast paced and crazy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28674	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....

I don't want to make worry too much, but last time my zebra danios did this crazy restless dances, they died one after the other after getting really slim and not eating at all. But they were 'dancing' only just under the water surface. Someone told me it's a Danio-exclusive disease! Are yours eating? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "H3ATH3R" <lilredhd1@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... 3 of my Zebra Danios are doing this crazy smooth like dance all around the tank especially in this live fuzzy moss plant I have in the bottom of the tank. Its two males and one female. Are they mating or should I be worried. Its looks like they are waltzing very fast all over the tank! Ive never seen it before but its actually pretty but fast paced and crazy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28675	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....

By the way. I had to go run some errands and they are no longer doing the "dance" I just fed them some bloodworms and of course all the danios were the first to start grabbing the food. -----Original Message----- From: N Taweel <n-taweel@...> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... I don't want to make worry too much, but last time my zebra danios did this crazy restless dances, they died one after the other after getting really slim and not eating at all. But they were 'dancing' only just under the water surface. Someone told me it's a Danio-exclusive disease! Are yours eating? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "H3ATH3R" <lilredhd1@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... 3 of my Zebra Danios are doing this crazy smooth like dance all around the tank especially in this live fuzzy moss plant I have in the bottom of the tank. Its two males and one female. Are they mating or should I be worried [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28676	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....

Yes they are eating and the females are still very healthy body size wise. Other than when they do this little dance mostly through the moss they act totally normal and look normal. Its quite odd and they are my favorite I sure hope they are not sick...they do not seem sick. -----Original Message----- From: N Taweel <n-taweel@...> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... I don't want to make worry too much, but last time my zebra danios did this crazy restless dances, they died one after the other after getting really slim and not eating at all. But they were 'dancing' only just under the water surface. Someone told me it's a Danio-exclusive disease! Are yours eating? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "H3ATH3R" <lilredhd1@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... 3 of my Zebra Danios are doing this crazy smooth like dance all around the tank especially in this live fuzzy moss plant I have in the bottom of the tank. Its two males and one female. Are they mating or should I be worried [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28677	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....

Yes I did just do a partial water change but the temp is the same and remained the same. It did look like a mating thing. I have T femails and 2 males in the ZD's and one pearl Danio that I have no clue if it is a female or male by its fuller body I would guess a female. I have my extra tank the hospital tank I could use if necessary to seperate them. Hey are still doing it. Its a male and female and every now and then a second male will chase just this one specific female. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... For ZD's, it's better to have at least two females for every male as the males will chase the female during mating season.. sometimes nipping her tail fin so she can't get away. It could be the beginning of this phase. Did you just do a PWC? Normally, a change in water parameters and temperature can be a trigger to mating... like the rainy season or spring temperatures that might happen in the wild. You should be prepared to put the two males or one female into a breeder net or separate tank for safety purposes if fin nipping becomes a problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H3ATH3R Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... 3 of my Zebra Danios are doing this crazy smooth like dance all around the tank especially in this live fuzzy moss plant I have in the bottom of the tank. Its two males and one female. Are they mating or should I be worried. Its looks like they are waltzing very fast all over the tank! Ive never seen it before but its actually pretty but fast paced and crazy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28678	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....

I don't really know, but if they are dancing around just under the water surface, there may not be enough oxygen in the water, and usually low oxygen occurs as a result of other water quality issues. Also, have you added any chemical? Because poisoning will cause fish to swim rapidly and dance. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: N Taweel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... I don't want to make worry too much, but last time my zebra danios did this crazy restless dances, they died one after the other after getting really slim and not eating at all. But they were 'dancing' only just under the water surface. Someone told me it's a Danio-exclusive disease! Are yours eating? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "H3ATH3R" <lilredhd1@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... 3 of my Zebra Danios are doing this crazy smooth like dance all around the tank especially in this live fuzzy moss plant I have in the bottom of the tank. Its two males and one female. Are they mating or should I be worried. Its looks like they are waltzing very fast all over the tank! Ive never seen it before but its actually pretty but fast paced and crazy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28679	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....

Question - how do you tell a male danio from a female danio? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: H3ATH3R To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:06 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... Yes they are eating and the females are still very healthy body size wise. Other than when they do this little dance mostly through the moss they act totally normal and look normal. Its quite odd and they are my favorite I sure hope they are not sick...they do not seem sick. -----Original Message----- From: N Taweel <n-taweel@...> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... I don't want to make worry too much, but last time my zebra danios did this crazy restless dances, they died one after the other after getting really slim and not eating at all. But they were 'dancing' only just under the water surface. Someone told me it's a Danio-exclusive disease! Are yours eating? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "H3ATH3R" <lilredhd1@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... 3 of my Zebra Danios are doing this crazy smooth like dance all around the tank especially in this live fuzzy moss plant I have in the bottom of the tank. Its two males and one female. Are they mating or should I be worried [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28680	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....

Did you make sure the water was teh same ph? And, this sounds dumb, but I've made this mistake - are you sure you dechlorinated the water? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "H3ATH3R" <lilredhd1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:14 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... Yes I did just do a partial water change but the temp is the same and remained the same. It did look like a mating thing. I have T femails and 2 males in the ZD's and one pearl Danio that I have no clue if it is a female or male by its fuller body I would guess a female. I have my extra tank the hospital tank I could use if necessary to seperate them. Hey are still doing it. Its a male and female and every now and then a second male will chase just this one specific female. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... For ZD's, it's better to have at least two females for every male as the males will chase the female during mating season.. sometimes nipping her tail fin so she can't get away. It could be the beginning of this phase. Did you just do a PWC? Normally, a change in water parameters and temperature can be a trigger to mating... like the rainy season or spring temperatures that might happen in the wild. You should be prepared to put the two males or one female into a breeder net or separate tank for safety purposes if fin nipping becomes a problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H3ATH3R Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... 3 of my Zebra Danios are doing this crazy smooth like dance all around the tank especially in this live fuzzy moss plant I have in the bottom of the tank. Its two males and one female. Are they mating or should I be worried. Its looks like they are waltzing very fast all over the tank! Ive never seen it before but its actually pretty but fast paced and crazy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28681	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....*correcting error*

That was 3 females and 2 males -----Original Message----- From: H3ATH3R <lilredhd1@...> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... Yes I did just do a partial water change but the temp is the same and remained the same. It did look like a mating thing. I have T femails and 2 males in the ZD's and one pearl Danio that I have no clue if it is a female or male by its fuller body I would guess a female. I have my extra tank the hospital tank I could use if necessary to seperate them. Hey are still doing it. Its a male and female and every now and then a second male will chase just this one specific female. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... For ZD's, it's better to have at least two females for every male as the males will chase the female during mating season.. sometimes nipping her tail fin so she can't get away. It could be the beginning of this phase. Did you just do a PWC? Normally, a change in water parameters and temperature can be a trigger to mating... like the rainy season or spring temperatures that might happen in the wild. You should be prepared to put the two males or one female into a breeder net or separate tank for safety purposes if fin nipping becomes a problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H3ATH3R Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... 3 of my Zebra Danios are doing this crazy smooth like dance all around the tank especially in this live fuzzy moss plant I have in the bottom of the tank. Its two males and one female. Are they mating or should I be worried. Its looks like they are waltzing very fast all over the tank! Ive never seen it before but its actually pretty but fast paced and crazy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28682	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....

Nope they are dancing more on the bottom in my moss. My males are slim my females are fatter...lol. They all started out slim when they were younger but the females got fatter as they got older but the males stayed slim. Everything in the tank is good and the same and yup I use a product to nutrralize the clorine and chloramines. They act perfectly normal other than this little dance in the moss and around the tank. They are all just now about 8 months old. Im not sure when they start mating but if the males are going to hurt the one female they after I may go ahead and seperate them. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... Did you make sure the water was teh same ph? And, this sounds dumb, but I've made this mistake - are you sure you dechlorinated the water? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "H3ATH3R" <lilredhd1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:14 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... Yes I did just do a partial water change but the temp is the same and remained the same. It did look like a mating thing. I have T femails and 2 males in the ZD's and one pearl Danio that I have no clue if it is a female or male by its fuller body I would guess a female. I have my extra tank the hospital tank I could use if necessary to seperate them. Hey are still doing it. Its a male and female and every now and then a second male will chase just this one specific female. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... For ZD's, it's better to have at least two females for every male as the males will chase the female during mating season.. sometimes nipping her tail fin so she can't get away. It could be the beginning of this phase. Did you just do a PWC? Normally, a change in water parameters and temperature can be a trigger to mating... like the rainy season or spring temperatures that might happen in the wild. You should be prepared to put the two males or one female into a breeder net or separate tank for safety purposes if fin nipping becomes a problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H3ATH3R Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... 3 of my Zebra Danios are doing this crazy smooth like dance all around the tank especially in this live fuzzy moss plant I have in the bottom of the tank. Its two males and one female. Are they mating or should I be worried. Its looks like they are waltzing very fast all over the tank! Ive never seen it before but its actually pretty but fast paced and crazy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28683	From: Mike Downey	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....

From: "H3ATH3R" <lilredhd1@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... Nope they are dancing more on the bottom in my moss. My males are slim my females are fatter...lol. They all started out slim when they were younger but the females got fatter as they got older but the males stayed slim. Everything in the tank is good and the same and yup I use a product to nutrralize the clorine and chloramines. They act perfectly normal other than this little dance in the moss and around the tank. They are all just now about 8 months old. Im not sure when they start mating but if the males are going to hurt the one female they after I may go ahead and seperate them. Danios are great dithers or community fish. My favorite is the Choprae. They spawn in a similar swimming dance. There are usually two males courting each female as they dive into the Java moss. I "vacuum" the moss after such evening antics and save the water in white five gallon buckets. I then watch for the fry on the sides and siphon them out and place in a fry tank..usually a 5 gallon. You can use a cooking baster to "suck" them up for rearing. Mike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28684	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....

Thanks Mike. I have been reading up once again breeding behaviors of the danio and it does seem to me that they are doing the mating thing. Its odd how both the males like the same female. The other two females are just keeping to themselves at the top of the tank. I just worry they will wear her out but so far when she needs a rest she seems to go to the top with the other females. It must be a great time to get frisky because my swordtails are mating also. Thanks again for the info. I do plan to try to save some of the fry but this is the first time I have ever dealt with egg layers actually spawning so we will see how that goes. I love my danios and would love to have some more. :) -----Original Message----- From: Mike Downey <windwalkerone@...> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... From: "H3ATH3R" <lilredhd1@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... Nope they are dancing more on the bottom in my moss. My males are slim my females are fatter...lol. They all started out slim when they were younger but the females got fatter as they got older but the males stayed slim. Everything in the tank is good and the same and yup I use a product to nutrralize the clorine and chloramines. They act perfectly normal other than this little dance in the moss and around the tank. They are all just now about 8 months old. Im not sure when they start mating but if the males are going to hurt the one female they after I may go ahead and seperate them. Danios are great dithers or community fish. My favorite is the Choprae. They spawn in a similar swimming dance. There are usually two males courting each female as they dive into the Java moss. I "vacuum" the moss after such evening antics and save the water in white five gallon buckets. I then watch for the fry on the sides and siphon them out and place in a fry tank..usually a 5 gallon. You can use a cooking baster to "suck" them up for rearing. Mike ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28685	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: One more Danio Question

I bought a pearl danio and what looks like a fancy tail pearl zebra danio. I have searched images on google and cannot find one that looks like this. It looks exactly like my fancy tail ZD's except its color is whitish pink color and in the light it has that irradecent pearl color with white shiny strripes. The stripes arent as bold has the regular fancy tail ZD's but you can see them well when he moves around just right in the light. I got him because he was so different and pretty and the guy told me he was a fancy tail ZD BUT his color doesnt look like any I have seen. Anyone seen a danio like this? Hes trying to mate with my normal fancy tail ZD female so he looks and acts just like my others but has the color of a pearl danio and pretty white strips instead of the dark black/blue ones. Im just wondering if hes an albino ZD or something. I would take a pic but Im not sure I could get a good one he is fast...lol. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28686	From: Jenn	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Mystery cichlid babies

I posted some pictures of the babies that I got out of the feeder tank at work. As soon as they are approved by the moderator they are in the album named: Jenn's Pictures. They have grown a bit since I brought them home. I'm feeding them Thera A. After I am sure what they really are, I need to get a bottom feeder that won't bother them or be bothered by them... jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28687	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/14/2008
Subject: Re: Someone who knows about danios....

Sounds like budgies, LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "H3ATH3R" <lilredhd1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... Thanks Mike. I have been reading up once again breeding behaviors of the danio and it does seem to me that they are doing the mating thing. Its odd how both the males like the same female. The other two females are just keeping to themselves at the top of the tank. I just worry they will wear her out but so far when she needs a rest she seems to go to the top with the other females. It must be a great time to get frisky because my swordtails are mating also. Thanks again for the info. I do plan to try to save some of the fry but this is the first time I have ever dealt with egg layers actually spawning so we will see how that goes. I love my danios and would love to have some more. :) -----Original Message----- From: Mike Downey <windwalkerone@...> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... From: "H3ATH3R" <lilredhd1@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Someone who knows about danios.... Nope they are dancing more on the bottom in my moss. My males are slim my females are fatter...lol. They all started out slim when they were younger but the females got fatter as they got older but the males stayed slim. Everything in the tank is good and the same and yup I use a product to nutrralize the clorine and chloramines. They act perfectly normal other than this little dance in the moss and around the tank. They are all just now about 8 months old. Im not sure when they start mating but if the males are going to hurt the one female they after I may go ahead and seperate them. Danios are great dithers or community fish. My favorite is the Choprae. They spawn in a similar swimming dance. There are usually two males courting each female as they dive into the Java moss. I "vacuum" the moss after such evening antics and save the water in white five gallon buckets. I then watch for the fry on the sides and siphon them out and place in a fry tank..usually a 5 gallon. You can use a cooking baster to "suck" them up for rearing. Mike ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28688	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/15/2008
Subject: Re: One more Danio Question

As the various smaller Danio species will interbreed, its possible you have a long-fin Zebra Danio -- Pearl Danio cross. Without being able to see a photo of this fish, it also sounds from your description that it could be the rather new ZD Glo-Fish with its added anemone gene. Since you suspect it may also be a possible albino, check the eye pigmentation -- they would appear pink to red. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, H3ATH3R <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > I bought a pearl danio and what looks like a fancy tail pearl zebra danio. I have searched images on google and cannot find one that looks like this. It looks exactly like my fancy tail ZD's except its color is whitish pink color and in the light it has that irradecent pearl color with white shiny strripes. The stripes arent as bold has the regular fancy tail ZD's but you can see them well when he moves around just right in the light. I got him because he was so different and pretty and the guy told me he was a fancy tail ZD BUT his color doesnt look like any I have seen. Anyone seen a danio like this? Hes trying to mate with my normal fancy tail ZD female so he looks and acts just like my others but has the color of a pearl danio and pretty white strips instead of the dark black/blue ones. Im just wondering if hes an albino ZD or something. I would take a pic but Im not sure I could get a good one he is fast...lol. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28689	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/15/2008
Subject: How do you tell a male danio from a female danio?

Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28690	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/15/2008
Subject: Good News??

I finally received some fish equipments! I remind you that I live in middle east, and had big issues with finding chemicals, test kits, medications, and even siphons! Now i got (5 in 1 Tetra testing strips) , I know it's not as accurate as the liquid testing kit, but that's all I could get. But I also received a liquid (SERA) Nitrit Test kit. Both are made in Germany. I did a 30% PWC 3 days ago, and did another 30% PWC today. Here are the water parameters BEFORE and AFTER this last water change: Nitrate 50 Before ---- 10-25 mg/l After Nitrite 0 ---- 0 mg/l GH 10-16 Before -------- 10-16 dH After KH 10 Before ------ 10 dH After pH 8.4 Before ------ 8.4 After The tap water pH is 8 (after like 2 hours). The accurate Liquid Nitrit test also showed (0). Our water is always hard. The Tank is a 20 gallon, with few live plants, and it's overstocked: 5 Tetra Serpae - 3 2" clown loaches - 12 small guppies - 1 Cohli loach - 1 Angel - 1 ZD - 1 Platy - 2 2" Golden Chinese Algae Eaters - 1 Balloon Moly. What's your opinion about the parameters and how suitable they are for these kinds of fish? Do you think I need to constantly add a pH decreaser? The package also contained two siphons, finally! I enjoyed my first tank siphoning of my life! It was very satisfying to see the two buckets full of brown mulmed water! Regards, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28691	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/15/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery cichlid babies

What's a 'feeder tank'? Regards, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenn" I posted some pictures of the babies that I got out of the feeder tank at work. As soon as they are approved by the moderator they are in the album named: Jenn's Pictures. They have grown a bit since I brought them home. I'm feeding them Thera A. After I am sure what they really are, I need to get a bottom feeder that won't bother them or be bothered by them... jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28692	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/15/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery cichlid babies

For instance feeder guppies...guppies that are bought to feed other fish and so on... -----Original Message----- From: N Taweel What's a 'feeder tank'? Regards, Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28693	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/15/2008
Subject: Re: Good News??

Great to see thsat you finally were able to obtain some items to work with, for your fish. Before I go any further, I would just like to suggest your trading in those two Chinese Algae Eaters for Siamese Algae Eathers. The CAE's can get to around 10" long, and after they grow past the juvenile stage, they no longer eater algae -- and generally become rather nasty towards their tank mates. I tend to question the accuracy of your nitrite test kit, with your having that much of an overstocked tank. If this is accurate however, yoyr parameters look pretty good for maintaining your fish. While they could be better, such as having a lower pH, "don't fix if it ain't broken!" As long as your fish are comfortable and apparently doing well, do not attempt to change the pH. If you were to try this, almost invariably it could very well bounce, which would be detrimental to the fish in short time, depending on its frequency and severity. Your present buffering capacity to ensure its bouncing. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > I finally received some fish equipments! I remind you that I live in middle east, and had big issues with finding chemicals, test kits, medications, and even siphons! > > Now i got (5 in 1 Tetra testing strips) , I know it's not as accurate as the liquid testing kit, but that's all I could get. But I also received a liquid (SERA) Nitrit Test kit. Both are made in Germany. > > I did a 30% PWC 3 days ago, and did another 30% PWC today. > Here are the water parameters BEFORE and AFTER this last water change: > > Nitrate 50 Before ---- 10-25 mg/l After > Nitrite 0 ---- 0 mg/l > GH 10-16 Before -------- 10-16 dH After > KH 10 Before ------ 10 dH After > pH 8.4 Before ------ 8.4 After > > The tap water pH is 8 (after like 2 hours). > The accurate Liquid Nitrit test also showed (0). > Our water is always hard. > > The Tank is a 20 gallon, with few live plants, and it's overstocked: 5 Tetra Serpae - 3 2" clown loaches - 12 small guppies - 1 Cohli loach - 1 Angel - 1 ZD - 1 Platy - 2 2" Golden Chinese Algae Eaters - 1 Balloon Moly. > > What's your opinion about the parameters and how suitable they are for these kinds of fish? Do you think I need to constantly add a pH decreaser? > > The package also contained two siphons, finally! I enjoyed my first tank siphoning of my life! > It was very satisfying to see the two buckets full of brown mulmed water! > > Regards, > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28694	From: maj7787	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: breeding

Hi there, can anyone tell me if its safe to keep any catfish,such as corydora or common pleco in the breeding tank together with the pair of fish which is about to spawn? thanx. Imran.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28695	From: maj7787	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: under gravel filter

Hi there, i have heard a lot abt the negative points of having an under gravel filter. I really wish to hear the positive points from someone who has used it and would recommend it due to reasons known best by the person himself who has gained enough experience.Is there any such person out there? hello....????

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28696	From: maj7787	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: smelly water

Hi....I always get a lousy smell when i open the cover in the morning. the water is slightly cloudy most of the time,i have way below the number of fish for the tank which is a 70 gallon one and i dont over feed them. Regular water changes of 20% per week is done without fail. I really would like to know the reasons behind such smell. or is it normal? Can some one shed some light on this pls ???thanx.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28697	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: breeding

I personaly have not had any problems with keeping cory cats in my breeder tanks. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "maj7787" <maj7787@...> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:09:08 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] breeding Hi there, can anyone tell me if its safe to keep any catfish,such as corydora or common pleco in the breeding tank together with the pair of fish which is about to spawn? thanx. Imran. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28698	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: under gravel filter

I never liked the undergravel filters. The only really positive thing I could say about having one is it helped keep my water very clear. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "maj7787" <maj7787@...> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:14:47 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] under gravel filter Hi there, i have heard a lot abt the negative points of having an under gravel filter. I really wish to hear the positive points from someone who has used it and would recommend it due to reasons known best by the person himself who has gained enough experience.Is there any such person out there? hello....???? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28699	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water

Don't ever feed them? What in the world are they eating? One reason I ask is some fish could live long by eating what's overgrown in your tank if there's enough of it. Also, it would be very helpful if you could tell us your ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels. Have you tested them? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: maj7787 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:23 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] smelly water Hi....I always get a lousy smell when i open the cover in the morning. the water is slightly cloudy most of the time,i have way below the number of fish for the tank which is a 70 gallon one and i dont over feed them. Regular water changes of 20% per week is done without fail. I really would like to know the reasons behind such smell. or is it normal? Can some one shed some light on this pls ???thanx. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: breeding

What kind of fish are breeding? Some fish are egg scatterers and leave things to nature, others lay their eggs in nest area and guard them and then of course, there are live bearers. How big is the breeding tank? If you want maximum survivability of the spawn, it's probably best to have the spawners by themselves but many people have fish spawn in their community tanks and have surviving fry although I'm sure the numbers are diminished in a community tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of maj7787 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] breeding Hi there, can anyone tell me if its safe to keep any catfish,such as corydora or common pleco in the breeding tank together with the pair of fish which is about to spawn? thanx. Imran. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1556 - Release Date: 7/16/2008 4:56 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: under gravel filter

On my blog, I have an article called "Filter Maintenance & Cleaning" and in that article, I have some info and several links to other well written articles about UGF's. Check them out for the good and bad on UGF's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of maj7787 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] under gravel filter Hi there, i have heard a lot abt the negative points of having an under gravel filter. I really wish to hear the positive points from someone who has used it and would recommend it due to reasons known best by the person himself who has gained enough experience.Is there any such person out there? hello....???? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1556 - Release Date: 7/16/2008 4:56 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28702	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water

When you do your weekly PWC's, are you vacuuming your gravel good to get the detritus out of the gravel? I saw in another of your posts that you may have a UGF. Have you been doing proper maintenance and cleaning on it? See my reply to your other post. What are your water parameter test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH and KH?... and any others you may have? After doing your next PWC and vacuuming the gravel good and doing filter maintenance to get the solid waste out of the tank, try adding some carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration like Purigen to help remove the impurities that might be in the water column that are causing the smell. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of maj7787 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] smelly water Hi....I always get a lousy smell when i open the cover in the morning. the water is slightly cloudy most of the time,i have way below the number of fish for the tank which is a 70 gallon one and i dont over feed them. Regular water changes of 20% per week is done without fail. I really would like to know the reasons behind such smell. or is it normal? Can some one shed some light on this pls ???thanx. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1556 - Release Date: 7/16/2008 4:56 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28703	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water

Imran said "don't Over feed them" not "don't Ever feed them". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] smelly water Don't ever feed them? What in the world are they eating? One reason I ask is some fish could live long by eating what's overgrown in your tank if there's enough of it. Also, it would be very helpful if you could tell us your ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels. Have you tested them? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: maj7787 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:23 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] smelly water Hi....I always get a lousy smell when i open the cover in the morning. the water is slightly cloudy most of the time,i have way below the number of fish for the tank which is a 70 gallon one and i dont over feed them. Regular water changes of 20% per week is done without fail. I really would like to know the reasons behind such smell. or is it normal? Can some one shed some light on this pls ???thanx. [ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1556 - Release Date: 7/16/2008 4:56 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28704	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water

Thanks Lenny.� She had me wondering.� What a difference 1 letter makes. �Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:47:30 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] smelly water Imran said "don't Over feed them" not "don't Ever feed them". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] smelly water Don't ever feed them? What in the world are they eating? One reason I ask is some fish could live long by eating what's overgrown in your tank if there's enough of it. Also, it would be very helpful if you could tell us your ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels. Have you tested them? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: maj7787 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:23 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] smelly water Hi....I always get a lousy smell when i open the cover in the morning. the water is slightly cloudy most of the time,i have way below the number of fish for the tank which is a 70 gallon one and i dont over feed them. Regular water changes of 20% per week is done without fail. I really would like to know the reasons behind such smell. or is it normal? Can some one shed some light on this pls ???thanx. [ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1556 - Release Date: 7/16/2008 4:56 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28705	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: smelly water

How's your tapwater smell? How bad is the tank smell and is it always that way or just the inital opening of the lid? I keep my tanks as close to technically perfect as I can and the first time I open the lid in the morning I get a small wiff of "fish tank smell." but it goes away almost immediately and is never strong enough to be called bad water. This isn't a solution to your problem, but I have a few fish that like eating orange slices... the pulp not the rind. Anywho, I feed them a slice every once in a while and the next few days the water smells nice and orange-like. :-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28706	From: jett07002	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water

If you are sure you are not OVER feeding, (this is relative since some may say you are and others may say you are not), and you are doing partial water changes religiously (assuming you are pulling out gunk from the bottom and not just taking out water with the hose somewhere in the middle of the water column). Look under/around decorations, rocks and/or caves you may have made. If your tank is heavily planted go through the leaves with your fingers, etc. I can almost guarantee there has to be something rotting in the tank. Probably a dead something. -- fish? snail? joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28707	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water

What type of fish like oranges? Barbara In a message dated 7/17/2008 11:54:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mlfrancis2@... writes: This isn't a solution to your problem, but I have a few fish that like eating orange slices... the pulp not the rind. Anywho, I feed them a slice every once in a while and the next few days the water smells nice and orange-like. :-) **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28708	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water

Goldfish do! Of course, there's not much they don't like... fruits, veggies, etc. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:smelly water What type of fish like oranges? Barbara In a message dated 7/17/2008 11:54:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mlfrancis2@... <mailto:mlfrancis2%40mindspring.com> writes: This isn't a solution to your problem, but I have a few fish that like eating orange slices... the pulp not the rind. Anywho, I feed them a slice every once in a while and the next few days the water smells nice and orange-like. :-) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1558 - Release Date: 7/17/2008 9:56 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28709	From: maj7787	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: under gravel filter

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, allie1068@... wrote: > > I never liked the undergravel filters. The only really positive thing I could say about having one is it helped keep my water very clear.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28710	From: SheikhRizwan	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: breeding

I'm breeding silver dollars and the tank size is abt 60 gallons, they seem to be spawning every few days.....i'm quite sure cory cats do not eat the frys but what abt the eggs? --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] breeding To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 6:37 AM What kind of fish are breeding? Some fish are egg scatterers and leave things to nature, others lay their eggs in nest area and guard them and then of course, there are live bearers. How big is the breeding tank? If you want maximum survivability of the spawn, it's probably best to have the spawners by themselves but many people have fish spawn in their community tanks and have surviving fry although I'm sure the numbers are diminished in a community tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of maj7787 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] breeding Hi there, can anyone tell me if its safe to keep any catfish,such as corydora or common pleco in the breeding tank together with the pair of fish which is about to spawn? thanx. Imran. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1556 - Release Date: 7/16/2008 4:56 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28711	From: SheikhRizwan	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water

Ok guys, where shall i start from.....well the tap water smells ok....the bad smell is only for a few seconds after opening the cover in the morning....so i tried something out last nite.....i kept the covers open the whole nite and guess what? not only the smell said good bye but the water now is�much more clearer than before.......i just cant believe my eyes and my nose too.....hehe..no more bad smell.....but the smell is there again if i close the cover just for a couple of hours........is there any gas escaping from the water which can also be the reason for the cloudiness? since the gas cannot escape when the cover is closed, most of the gas remains dissolved in the water the whole nite making it cloudy,�do u think i'm right here? about the water parameters,havent checked them lately but..... the pH is 6.4.sometimes even 6.2.....�and all other readings are ok most of the time. there is activated carbon in the filter medium ever since the tank was set up.....abt any dead fish in the tank,well that might be a possibility, so i checked but� found nothing.......well i have to admit the fact that i dont really do a good job in vacuuming the gravel every week like i should......i need to concentrate on this more.......lol...� --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:smelly water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 9:00 PM Goldfish do! Of course, there's not much they don't like... fruits, veggies, etc. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:smelly water What type of fish like oranges? Barbara In a message dated 7/17/2008 11:54:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mlfrancis2@... <mailto:mlfrancis2%40mindspring.com> writes: This isn't a solution to your problem, but I have a few fish that like eating orange slices... the pulp not the rind. Anywho, I feed them a slice every once in a while and the next few days the water smells nice and orange-like. :-) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1558 - Release Date: 7/17/2008 9:56 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28712	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water

Check the nitrite level. Whenever my tank has any fishy smell at all (noone has specified what their bad smells smell like but several have hinted that that's what it smells like), my nitrites are high. They're classically associated with the fishy smell. A noxious rotten odor would be hydrogen sulfide or methane. That could be something rotten, or a buildup of bacteria in your gravel and/or your filter. I've had little pockets of it start to form in my tank - but I clean the gravel well every weekend. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "SheikhRizwan" <maj7787@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:33 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:smelly water Ok guys, where shall i start from.....well the tap water smells ok....the bad smell is only for a few seconds after opening the cover in the morning....so i tried something out last nite.....i kept the covers open the whole nite and guess what? not only the smell said good bye but the water now is much more clearer than before.......i just cant believe my eyes and my nose too.....hehe..no more bad smell.....but the smell is there again if i close the cover just for a couple of hours........is there any gas escaping from the water which can also be the reason for the cloudiness? since the gas cannot escape when the cover is closed, most of the gas remains dissolved in the water the whole nite making it cloudy, do u think i'm right here? about the water parameters,havent checked them lately but..... the pH is 6.4.sometimes even 6.2..... and all other readings are ok most of the time. there is activated carbon in the filter medium ever since the tank was set up.....abt any dead fish in the tank,well that might be a possibility, so i checked but found nothing.......well i have to admit the fact that i dont really do a good job in vacuuming the gravel every week like i should......i need to concentrate on this more.......lol... --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:smelly water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 9:00 PM Goldfish do! Of course, there's not much they don't like... fruits, veggies, etc. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:smelly water What type of fish like oranges? Barbara In a message dated 7/17/2008 11:54:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mlfrancis2@... <mailto:mlfrancis2%40mindspring.com> writes: This isn't a solution to your problem, but I have a few fish that like eating orange slices... the pulp not the rind. Anywho, I feed them a slice every once in a while and the next few days the water smells nice and orange-like. :-) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1558 - Release Date: 7/17/2008 9:56 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28713	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water

New glasses didn't help. Sigh. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmy McHaney" <mchaneyjm@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] smelly water Thanks Lenny. She had me wondering. What a difference 1 letter makes. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:47:30 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] smelly water Imran said "don't Over feed them" not "don't Ever feed them". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] smelly water Don't ever feed them? What in the world are they eating? One reason I ask is some fish could live long by eating what's overgrown in your tank if there's enough of it. Also, it would be very helpful if you could tell us your ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels. Have you tested them? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: maj7787 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:23 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] smelly water Hi....I always get a lousy smell when i open the cover in the morning. the water is slightly cloudy most of the time,i have way below the number of fish for the tank which is a 70 gallon one and i dont over feed them. Regular water changes of 20% per week is done without fail. I really would like to know the reasons behind such smell. or is it normal? Can some one shed some light on this pls ???thanx. [ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1556 - Release Date: 7/16/2008 4:56 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28714	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: breeding

I've never owned them but according to this reputable profile and care sheet, http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Metynnis_argenteus.html, they are egg scatterers. Do you have a gravel substrate on the bottom? It would seem that most of the eggs would fall down between the crevices and be safe from scavenging by the corys. The profile also says to remove the adult silver dollars after spawning. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SheikhRizwan Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] breeding I'm breeding silver dollars and the tank size is abt 60 gallons, they seem to be spawning every few days.....i'm quite sure cory cats do not eat the frys but what abt the eggs? --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] breeding To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 6:37 AM What kind of fish are breeding? Some fish are egg scatterers and leave things to nature, others lay their eggs in nest area and guard them and then of course, there are live bearers. How big is the breeding tank? If you want maximum survivability of the spawn, it's probably best to have the spawners by themselves but many people have fish spawn in their community tanks and have surviving fry although I'm sure the numbers are diminished in a community tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of maj7787 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] breeding Hi there, can anyone tell me if its safe to keep any catfish,such as corydora or common pleco in the breeding tank together with the pair of fish which is about to spawn? thanx. Imran. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1556 - Release Date: 7/16/2008 4:56 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1559 - Release Date: 7/17/2008 6:08 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1560 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:47 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water

As someone else suggested, if you have any decorations, large rocks, driftwood, etc., you may need to clean under them. The smell could be from the gases put out by anaerobic bacteria growing in a mulm buildup somewhere in the tank... or from a dead/decaying fish or other critter. In general, a healthy, clean tank will have an earthy smell to it but not really a bad smell. I think you definitely have something wrong going on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SheikhRizwan Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:smelly water Ok guys, where shall i start from.....well the tap water smells ok....the bad smell is only for a few seconds after opening the cover in the morning....so i tried something out last nite.....i kept the covers open the whole nite and guess what? not only the smell said good bye but the water now is much more clearer than before.......i just cant believe my eyes and my nose too.....hehe..no more bad smell.....but the smell is there again if i close the cover just for a couple of hours........is there any gas escaping from the water which can also be the reason for the cloudiness? since the gas cannot escape when the cover is closed, most of the gas remains dissolved in the water the whole nite making it cloudy, do u think i'm right here? about the water parameters,havent checked them lately but..... the pH is 6.4.sometimes even 6.2..... and all other readings are ok most of the time. there is activated carbon in the filter medium ever since the tank was set up.....abt any dead fish in the tank,well that might be a possibility, so i checked but  found nothing.......well i have to admit the fact that i dont really do a good job in vacuuming the gravel every week like i should......i need to concentrate on this more.......lol... --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:smelly water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 9:00 PM Goldfish do! Of course, there's not much they don't like... fruits, veggies, etc. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:smelly water What type of fish like oranges? Barbara In a message dated 7/17/2008 11:54:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mlfrancis2@... <mailto:mlfrancis2%40mindspring.com> writes: This isn't a solution to your problem, but I have a few fish that like eating orange slices... the pulp not the rind. Anywho, I feed them a slice every once in a while and the next few days the water smells nice and orange-like. :-) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1560 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:47 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28716	From: hank voss	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: breeding

Cory's love caviar Hank - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SheikhRizwan <maj7787@...> wrote: \ > > I'm breeding silver dollars and the tank size is abt 60 gallons, they seem to be spawning every few days.....i'm quite sure cory cats do not eat the frys but what abt the eggs? > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28717	From: Debra	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: breeding

Cory's love to eat eggs! Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: SheikhRizwan <maj7787@...> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:45:06 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] breeding I'm breeding silver dollars and the tank size is abt 60 gallons, they seem to be spawning every few days.....i'm quite sure cory cats do not eat the frys but what abt the eggs? --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] breeding To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 6:37 AM What kind of fish are breeding? Some fish are egg scatterers and leave things to nature, others lay their eggs in nest area and guard them and then of course, there are live bearers. How big is the breeding tank? If you want maximum survivability of the spawn, it's probably best to have the spawners by themselves but many people have fish spawn in their community tanks and have surviving fry although I'm sure the numbers are diminished in a community tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of maj7787 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] breeding Hi there, can anyone tell me if its safe to keep any catfish,such as corydora or common pleco in the breeding tank together with the pair of fish which is about to spawn? thanx. Imran. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1556 - Release Date: 7/16/2008 4:56 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28718	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Eheim 2227 and PH

Does running an Eheim 2227 wet/dry on a fresh water tank lower the ph of the tank. All my tanks always have a ph of 7.2-7.4 . Bay Shore tap water is the same. The only changes I have made to my main 55g is to add the eheim 2227 and the ph is at 6.8. The main filter is a Penguin 350 w/BW. I am also cycling an aquaclear for a 10 gallon and a couple of in bubbler filters filled with bio sponges in the same tank. I have never had my ph in that area before. Am I over looking something or just being paranoid? I usually check my PH about once a month because it never changes until now

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28719	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/18/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH

What time of day did you test the pH? Was it first thing in the morning? Was it later in the day? Do you have any other test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? We went through this recently with someone else so yours may be the same situation. Do you have live plants in the tank or is there some visible algae... or a lot of algae? Test the water late in the afternoon after the tank lights have been on all day. The plants and/or algae would have been sucking up CO2 all day and the lower CO2 level in the water will result in a higher pH level. Generally, first thing in the morning, the CO2 level will be highest which will result in the pH being lower. I looked at the filter information on this page... http://www.aquariumguys.com/eheimwetdry.html and I don't see anything about the filter that would affect pH... except maybe making it higher due to the wave action which would create additional surface agitation that would provide for better gas exchange at the surface which would then lower the CO2 level in the tank thus making the pH higher. If after testing it later in the day, you find the same results, then things need to be looked at better by doing a full batch of tests to see if something else is causing the pH to lower. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim 2227 and PH Does running an Eheim 2227 wet/dry on a fresh water tank lower the ph of the tank. All my tanks always have a ph of 7.2-7.4 . Bay Shore tap water is the same. The only changes I have made to my main 55g is to add the eheim 2227 and the ph is at 6.8. The main filter is a Penguin 350 w/BW. I am also cycling an aquaclear for a 10 gallon and a couple of in bubbler filters filled with bio sponges in the same tank. I have never had my ph in that area before. Am I over looking something or just being paranoid? I usually check my PH about once a month because it never changes until now No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1560 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:47 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28720	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH

What are you using for media in the Eheim? Have you ever tested your KH and/or DH? If so, how have they changed, if at all? Do you measure your pH at approximately the same time of day? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim 2227 and PH Does running an Eheim 2227 wet/dry on a fresh water tank lower the ph of the tank. All my tanks always have a ph of 7.2-7.4 . Bay Shore tap water is the same. The only changes I have made to my main 55g is to add the eheim 2227 and the ph is at 6.8. The main filter is a Penguin 350 w/BW. I am also cycling an aquaclear for a 10 gallon and a couple of in bubbler filters filled with bio sponges in the same tank. I have never had my ph in that area before. Am I over looking something or just being paranoid? I usually check my PH about once a month because it never changes until now

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28721	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH

Just out of curiosity, how are you measuring ph? I use the API test kits, and I can't discern teh results with that degree of specificity. What is more, my ph reagent usually suggests a lower ph than my high ph reagent. I do know if the colors change, adn I know that variously yellower and greener mean lower, but I couldn't tell you if the ph is 7.4 or 7.8, and simply browner can mean lower or higher, sincer redder is higher and yellower is lower. Have you gotten this result more than once? I've learned that if I get an odd ph value the first thing is to rinse the tube in the water from teh aquarium, shake the bottle better, and test again. It's amazing how many people on these lists refuse to try that. I'm not your expert on why ph drops in a tank, but I do know that if nitrites adn nitrates were created and processed your ph drops. This sounds like a stupid question to ask someone with an eheim wet dry filter, but have you checked your nitrites and nitrates? One other thing that occurs to me (the beginner), is to check for a ph change in your tap water, which actually happened to mine recently - but then you're telling us that you have several tanks and the ph has not changed in the others. But is there any obvious possible reason for that difference, such as that the other tanks are larger or had smaller water changes? The time I had a pocket of noxious gas, some of which could change your ph, I found it by trying to rid my gravel of excessive debris. It was where you'd expect such a thing - in some particularly deep gravel under some plastic plants, in one of the places where my fish most like to hide (and poop). Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: turbocoupe76 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim 2227 and PH Does running an Eheim 2227 wet/dry on a fresh water tank lower the ph of the tank. All my tanks always have a ph of 7.2-7.4 . Bay Shore tap water is the same. The only changes I have made to my main 55g is to add the eheim 2227 and the ph is at 6.8. The main filter is a Penguin 350 w/BW. I am also cycling an aquaclear for a 10 gallon and a couple of in bubbler filters filled with bio sponges in the same tank. I have never had my ph in that area before. Am I over looking something or just being paranoid? I usually check my PH about once a month because it never changes until now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28722	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH

One thing that occurs to me. If you think that filter may have made a difference maybe you recently added it. Some of the things you can put in filters can variously pull bad things out of the water, and even change the ph (more likely by raising it). What exactly have you got in that filter? Lenny, I take it the time of day only affects the chemistry of your aquarium if you have real plants? Or alot of algae? Changing the way air moves through an aquarium could conceivably change the amount of carbon dioxide in the water. I'm familiar with this because my city water has an artificially extremely high ph and I prepare the water to put in the tank by bubbling air through it, and, if that doesn't work, bubbling air from my lungs through it, to bring the ph down to that of the water in the tank. Even teh woman at the city water utility lab said that the ph is so artificially high that exposure to air lowers the ph by dissolving carbon dioxide in it. But once the water is in the tank, and I have plenty of air moving through the water in the tank, it maintains a set ph. We've had discussons on these lists, and it's remarkable what can alter the ph of your water in what ways. Not only does water from your tap differ in what could later its ph, but the structure of your tap and the way the water comes out can variously take out CO2 or add CO2. Conceivably your wet dry filter could add CO2, though unless your tank doesn't get much air, I'm trying to imagine how that could chagne the ph of an established tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim 2227 and PH What time of day did you test the pH? Was it first thing in the morning? Was it later in the day? Do you have any other test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? We went through this recently with someone else so yours may be the same situation. Do you have live plants in the tank or is there some visible algae... or a lot of algae? Test the water late in the afternoon after the tank lights have been on all day. The plants and/or algae would have been sucking up CO2 all day and the lower CO2 level in the water will result in a higher pH level. Generally, first thing in the morning, the CO2 level will be highest which will result in the pH being lower. I looked at the filter information on this page... http://www.aquariumguys.com/eheimwetdry.html and I don't see anything about the filter that would affect pH... except maybe making it higher due to the wave action which would create additional surface agitation that would provide for better gas exchange at the surface which would then lower the CO2 level in the tank thus making the pH higher. If after testing it later in the day, you find the same results, then things need to be looked at better by doing a full batch of tests to see if something else is causing the pH to lower. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim 2227 and PH Does running an Eheim 2227 wet/dry on a fresh water tank lower the ph of the tank. All my tanks always have a ph of 7.2-7.4 . Bay Shore tap water is the same. The only changes I have made to my main 55g is to add the eheim 2227 and the ph is at 6.8. The main filter is a Penguin 350 w/BW. I am also cycling an aquaclear for a 10 gallon and a couple of in bubbler filters filled with bio sponges in the same tank. I have never had my ph in that area before. Am I over looking something or just being paranoid? I usually check my PH about once a month because it never changes until now No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1560 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:47 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28723	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Intestinal Disease Cure?

I have a Pristella Maxillaris in distress showing a dark area in the intestins at the bladder level. I always noticed a small dark area in the same place in that fish, but now the dark area is bigger and the fish tends to hide in a cave during the day, swimming in circles almost horizontally. The Pristella doesn't eat almost anything at this point. When I turn the lights off it gets out of the cave and swims with the other fish. Is there any medicine you would recommend? Thanks, Giuseppe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: SELAS Meeting Announcement (SouthEast Louisiana Aquarium Society)

Hi Groups, Sorry for the cross-post but I'm only doing it to two groups so it shouldn't affect too many folks. SELAS is SouthEast Louisiana Aquarium Society, http://www.selas.us, which is a recently set up society for this area. While I'm a member of the society, I'm not sure if I'll be able to attend meetings, etc., due to my work load but I thought I'd post this notice for any other members (membership and access to the website is free right now) in the southern Louisiana area. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: webmaster@... [mailto:webmaster@...] Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:12 PM To: webmaster@... Subject: SELAS Meeting Announcement The following is an email sent to you by an administrator of "SELAS". Message sent to you follows: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It’s official, we are going to have our first meeting….a “constitutional convention” if you will. It will take place at the Bluebonnet Branch of the East Baton Rouge Public Library from 2 - 4 PM on Saturday, July 26. We will discuss lots of stuff like a constitution, T-Shirts etc. I think that beforehand, we should all take a look at the various documents on this page: http://www.faas.info/downloads.html To get there, exit I-10 at Bluebonnet and go south (the side with the mall) for about 2 miles. It is on the right, about 1/4 - 1/2 mile past Perkins. Anyone interested in going to lunch before hand? Maybe the Kona Grill? Clay No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.2/1561 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:35 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28725	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?

What area of the world are you located in? I know some areas do not have as many available meds. Are you familiar with any of the meds that are available in your area? First, you should move the ill fish to a quarantine tank so that you can treat it separately. This also allows the fish to be less stressed which will allow it to heal quicker. When a fish gets stressed, it's immune system falters. Basic Darwinism takes over in wild species where "survival of the fittest" is part of nature which is why the sick fish is hiding during the day... so the other fish do not see it is sick. Often times, a sick fish will be bullied to death so their first instinct is to hide from the rest of the community. If you don't have something to use as a quarantine tank, then you will be forced to treat the entire community tank. If you don't have live plants, you should probably leave the lights off as much as possible so the sick fish will feel less stressed out. If I was in your position and I didn't have a quarantine tank, my first line of defense would be using Melafix (which seems to be available everywhere) in the water column to see if that mild antibacterial treatment would give the sick fish enough of a kick start to start eating since the fish isn't eating. If it does start eating, you could try feeding it an antibacterial food... Jungle makes one. Melafix is also mild enough that it will not harm your biological filtration (the good bacteria in your filters) or your plants (if you have live plants). Let us know more information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of giuseppesalvato Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Intestinal Disease Cure? I have a Pristella Maxillaris in distress showing a dark area in the intestins at the bladder level. I always noticed a small dark area in the same place in that fish, but now the dark area is bigger and the fish tends to hide in a cave during the day, swimming in circles almost horizontally. The Pristella doesn't eat almost anything at this point. When I turn the lights off it gets out of the cave and swims with the other fish. Is there any medicine you would recommend? Thanks, Giuseppe No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.2/1561 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:35 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28726	From: Cheryl	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: How do I care for this seahorse?

I just got given a small seahorse. it's about 2 inches long, if even. he's in my tank and doing fine. what do I do with him? like what does he eat, how do I feed him. he does est frozen brine shrimp right?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28727	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Guppy tragedy...

Ok since my son received some guppies from his grandma the males have been just evil. We made sure to go get some more females so it was a 1 male to 3 female ratio give or take a few. He had a total of 13 guppies. The males have killed ALL the females twice now. We are once again down to 1 female who like the others has her fins bit off and doesnt look so well. Should he stick with just males? Im telling you these males are EVIL...lol! We have never had this problem before until these evil killer guppies (yet so beautiful) came from his gma. Any suggestions? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28728	From: chuinsiew	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Live OR Frozen Artemia for Coral

Hello everyone, I have recently acquired some stony corals, Galaxea fascicularis. I've heard that we should feed them with Artemia to keep them healthy. Should I use frozen ones or culture live ones? Which is better for the corals? Do live ones have more nutritional value? Pls advise. Thank you!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28729	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH

I use an API test kit. I always rinse them in aquarium water first including the caps. I have only gotten the big of a drop once, but with a couple of water changes it appears to be coming back up. The reason I thought it was the filter was because I heard wet/drys were nitrate factories. This filter I bought used and was used for a reef tank, but I washed the substrate and ran it on an empty 55 gallon for a week and I would change 100% of the water every other day. All my tanks vary between 0-5ppm for nitrates. Ammonia and nitrites are usually stable. I do water changes 10-20% about every 3-4 days and vac once a week. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, how are you measuring ph? I use the API test kits, and I can't discern teh results with that degree of specificity. What is more, my ph reagent usually suggests a lower ph than my high ph reagent. I do know if the colors change, adn I know that variously yellower and greener mean lower, but I couldn't tell you if the ph is 7.4 or 7.8, and simply browner can mean lower or higher, sincer redder is higher and yellower is lower. > > Have you gotten this result more than once? I've learned that if I get an odd ph value the first thing is to rinse the tube in the water from teh aquarium, shake the bottle better, and test again. It's amazing how many people on these lists refuse to try that. > > I'm not your expert on why ph drops in a tank, but I do know that if nitrites adn nitrates were created and processed your ph drops. This sounds like a stupid question to ask someone with an eheim wet dry filter, but have you checked your nitrites and nitrates? > > One other thing that occurs to me (the beginner), is to check for a ph change in your tap water, which actually happened to mine recently - but then you're telling us that you have several tanks and the ph has not changed in the others. But is there any obvious possible reason for that difference, such as that the other tanks are larger or had smaller water changes? > > The time I had a pocket of noxious gas, some of which could change your ph, I found it by trying to rid my gravel of excessive debris. It was where you'd expect such a thing - in some particularly deep gravel under some plastic plants, in one of the places where my fish most like to hide (and poop). > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: turbocoupe76 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:49 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim 2227 and PH > > > > Does running an Eheim 2227 wet/dry on a fresh water tank lower the > ph of the tank. All my tanks always have a ph of 7.2-7.4 . Bay Shore > tap water is the same. The only changes I have made to my main 55g is > to add the eheim 2227 and the ph is at 6.8. The main filter is a > Penguin 350 w/BW. I am also cycling an aquaclear for a 10 gallon and a > couple of in bubbler filters filled with bio sponges in the same tank. > I have never had my ph in that area before. Am I over looking something > or just being paranoid? I usually check my PH about once a month > because it never changes until now > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28730	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH

I am using Ehfisubstrate in both trays. In the top tray there are also a handful of ceramic rings mixed in. Bayshore water is a little on the hard side but usually never changes. I have a fire station on the next road so the are constantly opening up the hydrants to clean their trucks and for practice so i get a lot of minerals in the water. I have a GE smartwater mainline filter (NOT a RO or water softener) that just filters out the major sediments. 10 micron I believe. I usually check all my levels in the morning before work. After I did another 30% water change, my ph is at 7.0ppm. > What are you using for media in the Eheim? Have you ever tested your KH > and/or DH? If so, how have they changed, if at all? Do you measure your > pH at approximately the same time of day? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim 2227 and PH > > > Does running an Eheim 2227 wet/dry on a fresh water tank lower the > ph of the tank. All my tanks always have a ph of 7.2-7.4 . Bay Shore > tap water is the same. The only changes I have made to my main 55g is > to add the eheim 2227 and the ph is at 6.8. The main filter is a > Penguin 350 w/BW. I am also cycling an aquaclear for a 10 gallon and a > couple of in bubbler filters filled with bio sponges in the same tank. > I have never had my ph in that area before. Am I over looking something > or just being paranoid? I usually check my PH about once a month > because it never changes until now >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28731	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...

What size tank? Sometimes fish will become "evil" if they are in an undersized tank due to basic "survival of the fittest" instincts kicking in. They thin out the heard so that they have a better chance of survival. Sometimes, you can "trick" them into thinking they have a larger water volume by having lots of live plants and frequent PWC's (partial water changes) so that the hormone levels stay low in the tank. Advanced filtration media like Purigen will also help remove some of the hormones. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H3ATH3R Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy tragedy... Ok since my son received some guppies from his grandma the males have been just evil. We made sure to go get some more females so it was a 1 male to 3 female ratio give or take a few. He had a total of 13 guppies. The males have killed ALL the females twice now. We are once again down to 1 female who like the others has her fins bit off and doesnt look so well. Should he stick with just males? Im telling you these males are EVIL...lol! We have never had this problem before until these evil killer guppies (yet so beautiful) came from his gma. Any suggestions? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.2/1561 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:35 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28732	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim 2227 and PH

I forgot to mention I have a 8" sword plant in the 55. Thats been there since I started the tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > One thing that occurs to me. If you think that filter may have made a > difference maybe you recently added it. Some of the things you can put in > filters can variously pull bad things out of the water, and even change the > ph (more likely by raising it). What exactly have you got in that filter? > > Lenny, I take it the time of day only affects the chemistry of your aquarium > if you have real plants? Or alot of algae? > > Changing the way air moves through an aquarium could conceivably change the > amount of carbon dioxide in the water. I'm familiar with this because my > city water has an artificially extremely high ph and I prepare the water to > put in the tank by bubbling air through it, and, if that doesn't work, > bubbling air from my lungs through it, to bring the ph down to that of the > water in the tank. Even teh woman at the city water utility lab said that > the ph is so artificially high that exposure to air lowers the ph by > dissolving carbon dioxide in it. But once the water is in the tank, and I > have plenty of air moving through the water in the tank, it maintains a set > ph. > > We've had discussons on these lists, and it's remarkable what can alter the > ph of your water in what ways. Not only does water from your tap differ > in what could later its ph, but the structure of your tap and the way the > water comes out can variously take out CO2 or add CO2. Conceivably your > wet dry filter could add CO2, though unless your tank doesn't get much air, > I'm trying to imagine how that could chagne the ph of an established tank. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:39 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim 2227 and PH > > > What time of day did you test the pH? Was it first thing in the morning? > Was it later in the day? Do you have any other test results for ammonia, > nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? > > We went through this recently with someone else so yours may be the same > situation. > > Do you have live plants in the tank or is there some visible algae... or a > lot of algae? > > Test the water late in the afternoon after the tank lights have been on all > day. The plants and/or algae would have been sucking up CO2 all day and the > lower CO2 level in the water will result in a higher pH level. Generally, > first thing in the morning, the CO2 level will be highest which will result > in the pH being lower. > > I looked at the filter information on this page... > http://www.aquariumguys.com/eheimwetdry.html and I don't see anything about > the filter that would affect pH... except maybe making it higher due to the > wave action which would create additional surface agitation that would > provide for better gas exchange at the surface which would then lower the > CO2 level in the tank thus making the pH higher. > > If after testing it later in the day, you find the same results, then things > need to be looked at better by doing a full batch of tests to see if > something else is causing the pH to lower. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim 2227 and PH > > > Does running an Eheim 2227 wet/dry on a fresh water tank lower the ph of the > tank. All my tanks always have a ph of 7.2-7.4 . Bay Shore tap water is the > same. The only changes I have made to my main 55g is to add the eheim 2227 > and the ph is at 6.8. The main filter is a Penguin 350 w/BW. I am also > cycling an aquaclear for a 10 gallon and a couple of in bubbler filters > filled with bio sponges in the same tank. > I have never had my ph in that area before. Am I over looking something or > just being paranoid? I usually check my PH about once a month because it > never changes until now > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1560 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 > 6:47 AM > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28733	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...

Its my sons 10 gl and he only does cleaning and partial water changes every other month or so but he does have live plants. If you think PWC's would help he would be more than happy to do it...making a mess with water..cant beat that..lol. In his 10gl he only has 3 platys and he did have 13 guppies of which he only has 5 left (a dying female and 4 males) and a teeny tiny pleco which gets traded in when they get to big.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28734	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...

A 10G tank should probably not have more than 4-5 guppies... maybe 3-4 males with the juvi pleco. Guppies grow to around 2.5" It would be best if you get baby/juvi clown or bristle nosed plecos (or one of the other dwarf varieties but those two are usually cheapest) which you will still have to trade in on a regular basis but since they only grow to around 5" anyhow, they'll be less likely to suffer serious stunting issues. Common plecos grow to 18"+ so the negative effects of stunting in an undersized tank are far more likely to adversely affect them. If the injured female doesn't make it this time, she'll likely not make it anyhow with just her and four males so if you can rehome her, that would probably be best. For a 10G, without other tanks for growing out fry, you would probably be best off keeping only male guppies. It would be less traumatic on your son also since he won't have to keep losing his little pets. With only 4-5 2.5" fish in the 10G, at least you would have a little wiggle room on the PWC's. If you try to squeeze in 10+ 2.5" fish, you would have to almost do daily 25% PWC's to ensure reasonable water quality. On my blog, I have a long article/list of "Hailey's 10 gallon tank stocking recommendations" which might give you some other ideas for your son's 10G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of H3ATH3R Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 10:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Guppy tragedy... Its my sons 10 gl and he only does cleaning and partial water changes every other month or so but he does have live plants. If you think PWC's would help he would be more than happy to do it...making a mess with water..cant beat that..lol. In his 10gl he only has 3 platys and he did have 13 guppies of which he only has 5 left (a dying female and 4 males) and a teeny tiny pleco which gets traded in when they get to big. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.2/1561 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:35 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28735	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...

Heather, I think it is an overcrowding issue- I should talk as my 55 has a pile of platys and my pond is overstocked but I didn't do it. the fish did. Maybe a 20 Gal tank would make things easier- I always had trouble with 10 gal as they emptied too fast with a python cleaner and it was hard to get that in there. Just a thought- remember there is a 2 gallon per fish inch rule isn't there? Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. H3ATH3R wrote: > Its my sons 10 gl and he only does cleaning and partial water changes every other month or so but he does have live plants. If you think PWC's would help he would be more than happy to do it...making a mess with water..cant beat that..lol. > In his 10gl he only has 3 platys and he did have 13 guppies of which he only has 5 left (a dying female and 4 males) and a teeny tiny pleco which gets traded in when they get to big. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...

Hi Sam, There is no "rule", whether it's 1" per gallon or 2 gallons per fish that works... except for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. For example, a 10" Oscar certainly can't be kept in 2 gallons of water, nor will 10 gallons of water be sufficient.... more like 75G for that single fish... although some people do squeeze them into 55G tanks as long as they keep up with their PWC's and have plenty of filtration. I have a long article on my blog where I did come up with a simple guideline for fish stocking but there are several simple scenarios that need to be looked into. There is no one-rule-fits-all. One of the reasons that the 1" per gallon "rule" doesn't work is that it is only looking at fish length where larger fish and wide bodied fish have a lot more body mass than a torpedo shaped fish of the same length. Here is some scientific based information concerning goldfish. A single 8" goldfish is equal in body-mass to over 500 1" baby goldfish. The reason for this is that every time a goldfish doubles it's body length, it increases it's body mass by eight times. So, a 2" goldfish is equal in body mass to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to 64 1" goldfish. That 8" goldfish is equal to over 500 1" goldfish. This is one of the reasons why a pair of fancy goldfish need at least a 55G tank and that still means lots of filtration and lots of PWC's as the fish grow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Guppy tragedy... Heather, I think it is an overcrowding issue- I should talk as my 55 has a pile of platys and my pond is overstocked but I didn't do it. the fish did. Maybe a 20 Gal tank would make things easier- I always had trouble with 10 gal as they emptied too fast with a python cleaner and it was hard to get that in there. Just a thought- remember there is a 2 gallon per fish inch rule isn't there? Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. H3ATH3R wrote: > Its my sons 10 gl and he only does cleaning and partial water changes every other month or so but he does have live plants. If you think PWC's would help he would be more than happy to do it...making a mess with water..cant beat that..lol. > In his 10gl he only has 3 platys and he did have 13 guppies of which he only has 5 left (a dying female and 4 males) and a teeny tiny pleco which gets traded in when they get to big. > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.2/1561 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:35 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28737	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/19/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...

We actually have a 10 gallon that is used to house any and all fry until they are large enough to be traded in to our LFS which is where the female guppy is now. I am thinking we will just stick with the males in my sons tank for now. Thanks for the responses and suggestions. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Guppy tragedy... Hi Sam, There is no "rule", whether it's 1" per gallon or 2 gallons per fish that works... except for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. For example, a 10" Oscar certainly can't be kept in 2 gallons of water, nor will 10 gallons of water be sufficient.... more like 75G for that single fish... although some people do squeeze them into 55G tanks as long as they keep up with their PWC's and have plenty of filtration. I have a long article on my blog where I did come up with a simple guideline for fish stocking but there are several simple scenarios that need to be looked into. There is no one-rule-fits-all. One of the reasons that the 1" per gallon "rule" doesn't work is that it is only looking at fish length where larger fish and wide bodied fish have a lot more body mass than a torpedo shaped fish of the same length. Here is some scientific based information concerning goldfish. A single 8" goldfish is equal in body-mass to over 500 1" baby goldfish. The reason for this is that every time a goldfish doubles it's body length, it increases it's body mass by eight times. So, a 2" goldfish is equal in body mass to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to 64 1" goldfish. That 8" goldfish is equal to over 500 1" goldfish. This is one of the reasons why a pair of fancy goldfish need at least a 55G tank and that still means lots of filtration and lots of PWC's as the fish grow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Guppy tragedy... Heather, I think it is an overcrowding issue- I should talk as my 55 has a pile of platys and my pond is overstocked but I didn't do it. the fish did. Maybe a 20 Gal tank would make things easier- I always had trouble with 10 gal as they emptied too fast with a python cleaner and it was hard to get that in there. Just a thought- remember there is a 2 gallon per fish inch rule isn't there? Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. H3ATH3R wrote: > Its my sons 10 gl and he only does cleaning and partial water changes every other month or so but he does have live plants. If you think PWC's would help he would be more than happy to do it...making a mess with water..cant beat that..lol. > In his 10gl he only has 3 platys and he did have 13 guppies of which he only has 5 left (a dying female and 4 males) and a teeny tiny pleco which gets traded in when they get to big. > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.2/1561 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:35 PM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´Ż`·.¸¸.><((((ş>.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸><((((ş> ¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..><((((ş> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ş((((><.·´Ż`·.¸¸.·´Ż`·.¸<ş((((><¸.·´Ż`·.¸. , .·´Ż`·..<ş((((><·´Ż`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28738	From: Lynn Francis	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: smelly water

Sorry Barbara, I've been out of town. Far as what likes oranges, yes Goldfish but I don't have any of those. My bala sharks, gold barbs, and odessa barbs really love them. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28739	From: myronbarefoot	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: eheim 2217

Hi, Iv'e got a leaking 125 gal. tank that I need to replace and I'm thinking of getting an Eheim 2217 to replace a fluval 404 that has lost power over time. I currently have it along with a Fluval 304 to help out (also somewhat under-powered)and I'm thinking to keep the 304 and adding the Eheim or just going with the Eheim. My qustions are: is this a really good filter? Are thier better ones? Can I use the "seeded" filter material (the bio-max and pre-filter ceramics and peat)from the 404? Any thing else? Any comments? thanks Myron

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28740	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: eheim 2217

Hi Myron, I can not speak on the condition of the Eheim filter but I did want to address the loss of power from your two Fluval filters. I have a few- well, maybe 6 of these different ones. Over the years I have come to have to deal with the 303 and 304 or 404 filters for my tanks. First it is always good to have two filters going just to cushion the cycle time of when you clean one of them. My loss of power came in the way of impeller stopping intermittently. I would get it going again except for the last time where the impeller was physically kept from turning due to the motor pole pieces or drive structure wearing through the plastic area where the impeller would sit in. Everything else was good on the filter except this bad pump so I decided to do away with the pump parts and hook up my own pump with some additional hose. It has been working great for about a year now. I used a pump called the 350 from Danner or otherwise known as a Mag Drive Pump. These can be had at Big Als or Drs. Foster and Smith. I think that not only does it move the water even better there are now no longer those stupid cheap impeller covers that keep on breaking. This pump works well in besides the filter I have a UV sterilizer hooked up in line as well. This is a solution if the Fluval is not just to be discarded. In fact you may want to sell in on E bay for spare parts. I bought a number of used ones but I do have one canister that leaks due to a crack. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. myronbarefoot wrote: > > Hi, Iv'e got a leaking 125 gal. tank that I need to replace and I'm > thinking of getting an Eheim 2217 to replace a fluval 404 that has > lost power over time. I currently have it along with a Fluval 304 to > help out (also somewhat under-powered)and I'm thinking to keep the 304 > and adding the Eheim or just going with the Eheim. My qustions are: is > this a really good filter? Are thier better ones? Can I use > the "seeded" filter material (the bio-max and pre-filter ceramics and > peat)from the 404? Any thing else? Any comments? thanks > > Myron > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28741	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: eheim 2217

First, I always like to have 2 filters. Second, while Eheim might be the highest quality, it comes with a high price as well. For my money I like the Rena Filstar XP3 and XP4 filters. I’ve only had them 2 years so far however. My Eheims and my Rena’s do an equal job I imagine the Rena’s will break or wear out a little sooner. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of myronbarefoot Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 5:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] eheim 2217 Hi, Iv'e got a leaking 125 gal. tank that I need to replace and I'm thinking of getting an Eheim 2217 to replace a fluval 404 that has lost power over time. I currently have it along with a Fluval 304 to help out (also somewhat under-powered)and I'm thinking to keep the 304 and adding the Eheim or just going with the Eheim. My qustions are: is this a really good filter? Are thier better ones? Can I use the "seeded" filter material (the bio-max and pre-filter ceramics and peat)from the 404? Any thing else? Any comments? thanks Myron [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28742	From: jett07002	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...

Hi, Heather: From your original message of just guppies, now there are platies and a pleco (however small it may be). Sorry, the tank is definitely overcrowded. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28743	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...

There has never been just guppies he always had the platys. He started with 3 platys and 2 guppies and a tiny pleco orginally but his grandma gave him more guppies. Thanks for telling me its overcrowded though...the male guppies pretty much took care of that problem for us. We have upgraded his tank size twice and it may be time to do it agan. :) -----Original Message----- From: jett07002 <jett07002@...> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 6:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy tragedy... Hi, Heather: From your original message of just guppies, now there are platies and a pleco (however small it may be). Sorry, the tank is definitely overcrowded. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28744	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: What are these wild fish?

I think it was here that we discussed this before. I caught several of the fish that noone could identify from photos an dmovies and photographed them. http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/564179598wxOdVu There's one small fish that crowded the shallower and quieter water along the entire creek, and one bigger fish that tended to speed along in the deeper center of the creek. There are both movies and still shots, especially of the smaller fish. The larger one ought to be easy to identify. What are they? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28745	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Why is my tetra swimming funny?

I have five danios, four flame tetras, four pristella tetras, and a little gold tetra who thinks he's a danio. Everybody is fine except for this one flame tetra. He is swimming at an odd, tale down angle, sometimes leaning to one side, and today he's been swimming mainly in circles. He also moves jerkily. This has been gettting worse for some time. He can swim in one direction when he wants to, albeit usually at that odd angle, and his appetite is better than that of the other flame tetras. He's usually the first to push in and grab bites of food among the danios, in their feeding ring. Here are movie clips, most of which include him swimming. http://pets.webshots.com/album/564181070iMLVlI Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28746	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Impeller maybe wearing out

Speaking of impellers wearing out, mine has quit on me several times over the past week. First time I thought that the fact that it may have been stopped for as much as two days accounted for the chemistry of my tank suddenly shot, but I think that may have been caused by a dead fish. Only determined pumping water through the unit with my turkey baster, fiddling with a pipe cleaner, and finally pushing down on it with the turkey baster, have gotten it working again. It's a Penguin/ Marineland 100. Should I change the impeller? If so, how do I go about it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28747	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: eheim 2217

Myron, I've had Rena Filstar's (an XP1 and an XP3) for four years and they're still running like champs. They are easy to maintain and have large canister reservoirs for lots of media. The only thing I'm seeing wrong after four years are the little suction cup clips that hold my spray bar.. they don't seem to have much suction any longer. The way I have mine set up, the spray bar is mostly held in place by the nylon ties that I have on the hard plastic sections coming into the tank so the suction cups aren't that critical to me but that's about my only complaint so far. When I was shopping around back in 2003/2004, they were the best filter for the dollar. I got one of mine at my local PetsMart since their online price was the best I could find and the local stores will match the website prices if you bring in the printed page. And yes, it would be very good to use your "cycled" filter media in which ever new filter system you get. I have a blog on a filter profile on one of my Rena's with lots of photos and information if you want to see more about them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] eheim 2217 First, I always like to have 2 filters. Second, while Eheim might be the highest quality, it comes with a high price as well. For my money I like the Rena Filstar XP3 and XP4 filters. I’ve only had them 2 years so far however. My Eheims and my Rena’s do an equal job…I imagine the Rena’s will break or wear out a little sooner. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of myronbarefoot Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 5:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] eheim 2217 Hi, Iv'e got a leaking 125 gal. tank that I need to replace and I'm thinking of getting an Eheim 2217 to replace a fluval 404 that has lost power over time. I currently have it along with a Fluval 304 to help out (also somewhat under-powered)and I'm thinking to keep the 304 and adding the Eheim or just going with the Eheim. My qustions are: is this a really good filter? Are thier better ones? Can I use the "seeded" filter material (the bio-max and pre-filter ceramics and peat)from the 404? Any thing else? Any comments? thanks Myron No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.2/1562 - Release Date: 7/19/2008 2:01 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28748	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: Impeller maybe wearing out

with my impellers when they start acting up i take it apart and put vaseline on the stick put it back together and it works once again In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Speaking of impellers wearing out, mine has quit on me several times over the past week. First time I thought that the fact that it may have been stopped for as much as two days accounted for the chemistry of my tank suddenly shot, but I think that may have been caused by a dead fish. Only determined pumping water through the unit with my turkey baster, fiddling with a pipe cleaner, and finally pushing down on it with the turkey baster, have gotten it working again. It's a Penguin/ Marineland 100. Should I change the impeller? If so, how do I go about it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28749	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: Impeller maybe wearing out

Hi Dora, Impellers don't really wear out but in the Fluval filter if they stop spinning it means that the hole they are in may be getting smaller due to expanding drive pole pieces or that the impeller washers are worn and more have to be added. I am sure the Fluval company does not want me giving out repair advice as I have had some of these filters going for a long time- maybe 10 years. The pump of the Fluval filter is the weakest part and of that the Impeller cover the cheapest garbage material on earth. I just use the canister design and allow an external pump to do the work needed and they -Magdrive 350 does a wonderful job. Usually if a pump stops it can be started with a sharp rap on the top section of the filter. I check my tanks every day so I catch any unusual activities within 24 hours. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Dora Smith wrote: > > Speaking of impellers wearing out, mine has quit on me several times > over the past week. First time I thought that the fact that it may > have been stopped for as much as two days accounted for the chemistry > of my tank suddenly shot, but I think that may have been caused by a > dead fish. Only determined pumping water through the unit with my > turkey baster, fiddling with a pipe cleaner, and finally pushing down > on it with the turkey baster, have gotten it working again. > > It's a Penguin/ Marineland 100. > > Should I change the impeller? If so, how do I go about it? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28750	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/20/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

Think the larger fish are blacktailed shiners. They're a medium small creek fish, found in gulf drainage streams and throughout Texas. It's a kind of minnow. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/species/bts/ http://www.bio.txstate.edu/~tbonner/txfishes/cyprinella%20venusta.htm The small ones are not bullheads; no funny things coming out of their mouths. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 10:03 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] What are these wild fish? I think it was here that we discussed this before. I caught several of the fish that noone could identify from photos an dmovies and photographed them. http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/564179598wxOdVu There's one small fish that crowded the shallower and quieter water along the entire creek, and one bigger fish that tended to speed along in the deeper center of the creek. There are both movies and still shots, especially of the smaller fish. The larger one ought to be easy to identify. What are they? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28751	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Impeller maybe wearing out

I have a Penguin/ Marineland, not a Fluval. Could make a difference? Anyway, I'm not an advanced mechanic, and for all the time I spend on my fish I really don't want to spend a day retooling the $15 power filter. Would it not be simpler to change the impeller? YOu can change them on the Penguin, right? I just need to know how to do it. Not you look at the thing and it's obvious. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Sam Palermo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Impeller maybe wearing out Hi Dora, Impellers don't really wear out but in the Fluval filter if they stop spinning it means that the hole they are in may be getting smaller due to expanding drive pole pieces or that the impeller washers are worn and more have to be added. I am sure the Fluval company does not want me giving out repair advice as I have had some of these filters going for a long time- maybe 10 years. The pump of the Fluval filter is the weakest part and of that the Impeller cover the cheapest garbage material on earth. I just use the canister design and allow an external pump to do the work needed and they -Magdrive 350 does a wonderful job. Usually if a pump stops it can be started with a sharp rap on the top section of the filter. I check my tanks every day so I catch any unusual activities within 24 hours. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Dora Smith wrote: > > Speaking of impellers wearing out, mine has quit on me several times > over the past week. First time I thought that the fact that it may > have been stopped for as much as two days accounted for the chemistry > of my tank suddenly shot, but I think that may have been caused by a > dead fish. Only determined pumping water through the unit with my > turkey baster, fiddling with a pipe cleaner, and finally pushing down > on it with the turkey baster, have gotten it working again. > > It's a Penguin/ Marineland 100. > > Should I change the impeller? If so, how do I go about it? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28752	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Impeller maybe wearing out

Put vaselline on what stick? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: grdnfan243@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Impeller maybe wearing out with my impellers when they start acting up i take it apart and put vaseline on the stick put it back together and it works once again In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Speaking of impellers wearing out, mine has quit on me several times over the past week. First time I thought that the fact that it may have been stopped for as much as two days accounted for the chemistry of my tank suddenly shot, but I think that may have been caused by a dead fish. Only determined pumping water through the unit with my turkey baster, fiddling with a pipe cleaner, and finally pushing down on it with the turkey baster, have gotten it working again. It's a Penguin/ Marineland 100. Should I change the impeller? If so, how do I go about it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28753	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Impeller maybe wearing out

maybe this is the wrong impeller i dunno In a message dated 7/21/2008 7:19:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Put vaselline on what stick? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) ----- Original Message ----- From: _grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:grdnfan243@...) To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Impeller maybe wearing out with my impellers when they start acting up i take it apart and put vaseline on the stick put it back together and it works once again In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) writes: Speaking of impellers wearing out, mine has quit on me several times over the past week. First time I thought that the fact that it may have been stopped for as much as two days accounted for the chemistry of my tank suddenly shot, but I think that may have been caused by a dead fish. Only determined pumping water through the unit with my turkey baster, fiddling with a pipe cleaner, and finally pushing down on it with the turkey baster, have gotten it working again. It's a Penguin/ Marineland 100. Should I change the impeller? If so, how do I go about it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@_tiggernut24@<WBR>tigge_tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ************************<WBR>**Get fantasy football with free live scor FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (_http://www.fanhousehttp://www.fanhohttp://www.fanhohttp://www.f_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28754	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: To Loach or not to Loach

I really would like to get 3-4 clown loaches. I have a 40 gallon tank with 4 corey's , 3 serpaes, and 6 assorted platys. I know loaches can grow quite large and do forsee myself getting a larger tank in the future. I just do not want to have an unsatisfactory living space for them. If not a clown loach what other type of loach would be ok for my tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28755	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach

There are many smaller species of loaches that would be better suited for a 40G. Clown Loaches get much too large.... 20" in nature. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html Here is a page with info on other loach species so you can check out the needs/wants of some of the smaller species to see if your current tank is suitable as far as tank mates and water parameters. http://fish.mongabay.com/botiinae.htm These articles also have a lot of good info including short summaries on some of the commonly found loaches including their expected adult sizes. Stick with the smaller species since most should be kept in groups of five or more. http://www.loaches.com/articles/an-introduction-to-keeping-botia http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id= 188 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach I really would like to get 3-4 clown loaches. I have a 40 gallon tank with 4 corey's , 3 serpaes, and 6 assorted platys. I know loaches can grow quite large and do forsee myself getting a larger tank in the future. I just do not want to have an unsatisfactory living space for them. If not a clown loach what other type of loach would be ok for my tank? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.3/1564 - Release Date: 7/21/2008 6:42 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28756	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: eheim 2217

> Second, while Eheim might be the highest quality, it comes with a high price > as well. For my money I like the Rena Filstar XP3 and XP4 filters. I¹ve > only had them 2 years so far however. My Eheims and my Rena¹s do an equal > jobŠI imagine the Rena¹s will break or wear out a little sooner. > > I have to disagree a bit here. The Classic Eheim are available with media for very reasonable prices. It's hard to really compare apples to apples but it looks to me like they might be less for a filter with equivalent volumes. The classics don't have all the bells and whistles, but they work. Mine range between 10-20 years old, and except for changing O rings and impeller shafts have just hummed along. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28757	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Impeller maybe wearing out

Sam, Do you put the pump on the intake side of the canister or is it on the output side. Thanks,  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Sam Palermo <skywavebe@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 10:53:57 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Impeller maybe wearing out Hi Dora, Impellers don't really wear out but in the Fluval filter if they stop spinning it means that the hole they are in may be getting smaller due to expanding drive pole pieces or that the impeller washers are worn and more have to be added. I am sure the Fluval company does not want me giving out repair advice as I have had some of these filters going for a long time- maybe 10 years. The pump of the Fluval filter is the weakest part and of that the Impeller cover the cheapest garbage material on earth. I just use the canister design and allow an external pump to do the work needed and they -Magdrive 350 does a wonderful job. Usually if a pump stops it can be started with a sharp rap on the top section of the filter. I check my tanks every day so I catch any unusual activities within 24 hours. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Dora Smith wrote: > > Speaking of impellers wearing out, mine has quit on me several times > over the past week. First time I thought that the fact that it may > have been stopped for as much as two days accounted for the chemistry > of my tank suddenly shot, but I think that may have been caused by a > dead fish. Only determined pumping water through the unit with my > turkey baster, fiddling with a pipe cleaner, and finally pushing down > on it with the turkey baster, have gotten it working again. > > It's a Penguin/ Marineland 100. > > Should I change the impeller? If so, how do I go about it? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28758	From: jett07002	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...

If you have room to upgrade to a larger tank that is really the best thing to do. Contrary to the beginner's myth, a large tank is actually easier to care for. The small volume of water in a small tank lets things happen too fast. But caution here. A "large" tank is relative, also. If you overcrowd the "large" tank, you are going to have the same problem on a larger scale. If you keep the same amount of fish you have and put them in a larger tank, then it would be much easier to maintain. The whole idea is to give the fish enough room. Regular PWCs are still a must no matter the size of the tank. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28759	From: hank voss	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Why is my tetra swimming funny?

--- Dora The tetra has a swimming bladder problem.Not enough gas in it to keep it on an even keel.It rarely cures itself but most often not.Its not transmittable to the other fish and have never seen any cure for it.I have a neon swimming like that for 7 mos now.The reason its so hungry is that its using up more energy to stay afloat. Regards Hank In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > I have five danios, four flame tetras, four pristella tetras, and a little gold tetra who thinks he's a danio. Everybody is fine except for this one flame tetra. He is swimming at an odd, tale down angle, sometimes leaning to one side, and today he's been swimming mainly in circles. He also moves jerkily. This has been gettting worse for some time. He can swim in one direction when he wants to, albeit usually at that odd angle, and his appetite is better than that of the other flame tetras. > Here are movie clips, most of which include him swimming. > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28760	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Guppy tragedy...

Thanks Joe. We already have 3 large tanks his is the smallest being the 10gal..lol! I agree the larger ones have been easier or as easy to care for. Thanks again.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28761	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Why is my tetra swimming funny?

I had a catfish do this for several weeks. Had a friend come over to take a look, told me it was a "bladder" problem. Told me there was some kind of drop you could get as it could be caused by an infection. However, I opted not to subject the fish to meds, and it did go away in about 2 weeks and he has been fine now for 3 months.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28762	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach

Lenny, Don't scare Vivian too much. In a captive situation, the clowns rarely exceed 12". That is still large enough to need a 3-400 gallon tank for a group of them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach There are many smaller species of loaches that would be better suited for a 40G. Clown Loaches get much too large.... 20" in nature. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html Here is a page with info on other loach species so you can check out the needs/wants of some of the smaller species to see if your current tank is suitable as far as tank mates and water parameters. http://fish.mongabay.com/botiinae.htm These articles also have a lot of good info including short summaries on some of the commonly found loaches including their expected adult sizes. Stick with the smaller species since most should be kept in groups of five or more. http://www.loaches.com/articles/an-introduction-to-keeping-botia http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article _id= 188 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach I really would like to get 3-4 clown loaches. I have a 40 gallon tank with 4 corey's , 3 serpaes, and 6 assorted platys. I know loaches can grow quite large and do forsee myself getting a larger tank in the future. I just do not want to have an unsatisfactory living space for them. If not a clown loach what other type of loach would be ok for my tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28763	From: RannieSue	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Bio-orb aquariums

Can anyone give me info on bio-orb aquariums? I've been looking at them for quite sometime. But they are expensive. I found them at TROPICAL FISH STORE.COM. They seem very self-sistaning. Susie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28764	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach

I think you scared her more than me.... with the 300-400G tank recommendation. LOL However, I do agree with you. My personal beliefs for the reason they do not grow over 12" in captivity is likely due to being stunted from being in undersized tanks.. which is why I quoted the expected size in nature. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 8:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach Lenny, Don't scare Vivian too much. In a captive situation, the clowns rarely exceed 12". That is still large enough to need a 3-400 gallon tank for a group of them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach There are many smaller species of loaches that would be better suited for a 40G. Clown Loaches get much too large.... 20" in nature. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html> Here is a page with info on other loach species so you can check out the needs/wants of some of the smaller species to see if your current tank is suitable as far as tank mates and water parameters. http://fish.mongabay.com/botiinae.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/botiinae.htm> These articles also have a lot of good info including short summaries on some of the commonly found loaches including their expected adult sizes. Stick with the smaller species since most should be kept in groups of five or more. http://www.loaches.com/articles/an-introduction-to-keeping-botia <http://www.loaches.com/articles/an-introduction-to-keeping-botia> http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?articl e> _id= 188 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach I really would like to get 3-4 clown loaches. I have a 40 gallon tank with 4 corey's , 3 serpaes, and 6 assorted platys. I know loaches can grow quite large and do forsee myself getting a larger tank in the future. I just do not want to have an unsatisfactory living space for them. If not a clown loach what other type of loach would be ok for my tank? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.3/1564 - Release Date: 7/21/2008 6:42 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28765	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-orb aquariums

What do you mean by self-sustaining? If you mean very low maintenance, then you might want to check out Diana Walstad's Natural Planted Tank. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/ (the top "Sticky" on that page has step-by-step directions... or you can buy her book... or maybe get it at your local library). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RannieSue Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bio-orb aquariums Can anyone give me info on bio-orb aquariums? I've been looking at them for quite sometime. But they are expensive. I found them at TROPICAL FISH STORE.COM. They seem very self-sistaning. Susie No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.3/1564 - Release Date: 7/21/2008 6:42 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28766	From: sharden47@aol.com	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-orb aquariums

Thank-you In a message dated 7/21/2008 9:52:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: What do you mean by self-sustaining? If you mean very low maintenance, then you might want to check out Diana Walstad's Natural Planted Tank. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/ (the top "Sticky" on that page has step-by-step directions... or you can buy her book... or maybe get it at your local library). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RannieSue Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bio-orb aquariums Can anyone give me info on bio-orb aquariums? I've been looking at them for quite sometime. But they are expensive. I found them at TROPICAL FISH STORE.COM. They seem very self-sistaning. Susie No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.3/1564 - Release Date: 7/21/2008 6:42 AM ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28767	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

Samantha: Are these gambusia? http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2225904600037409953ZOHIyc http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/564179598wxOdVu http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2430683060037409953lzdipo http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2863450390037409953bUCfHd http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2942279560037409953kWsOgQ http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2337089380037409953ZUvNpA http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2836926640037409953hmdcBf http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2193651300037409953UhgMtd http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2251165680037409953AErwMh Each photo has a place underneath - magnifying glass with + - where you can click to blow it up. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: rosette55@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:48 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish hi Dora i live in Austin and the only fish i ever see in the local creeks are the dreaded "mosquito fish" a Gambusia species as someone pointed out. they are little terrors. please don't put them in a tank with any other species or it will not be a pretty sight. you shouldn't do it anyway because of the introduction of foreign parasites and bacteria etc. to your established fish. i would be curious to know what you do find out. Amazonia on Airport should know or have a reference book that you can look them up in. samantha [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28768	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach

Even those I have seen raised in public aquaria don't get much larger than that. There has to be something missing, either in the diet or in the water that keeps them rather small. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 10:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach I think you scared her more than me.... with the 300-400G tank recommendation. LOL However, I do agree with you. My personal beliefs for the reason they do not grow over 12" in captivity is likely due to being stunted from being in undersized tanks.. which is why I quoted the expected size in nature. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 8:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach Lenny, Don't scare Vivian too much. In a captive situation, the clowns rarely exceed 12". That is still large enough to need a 3-400 gallon tank for a group of them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach There are many smaller species of loaches that would be better suited for a 40G. Clown Loaches get much too large.... 20" in nature. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html> Here is a page with info on other loach species so you can check out the needs/wants of some of the smaller species to see if your current tank is suitable as far as tank mates and water parameters. http://fish.mongabay.com/botiinae.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/botiinae.htm> These articles also have a lot of good info including short summaries on some of the commonly found loaches including their expected adult sizes. Stick with the smaller species since most should be kept in groups of five or more. http://www.loaches.com/articles/an-introduction-to-keeping-botia <http://www.loaches.com/articles/an-introduction-to-keeping-botia> http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?articl e> _id= 188 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach I really would like to get 3-4 clown loaches. I have a 40 gallon tank with 4 corey's , 3 serpaes, and 6 assorted platys. I know loaches can grow quite large and do forsee myself getting a larger tank in the future. I just do not want to have an unsatisfactory living space for them. If not a clown loach what other type of loach would be ok for my tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28769	From: jackcollora	Date: 7/21/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

i have just bought these fish in a store in anihime california they look like the pictures of the fish trying to be identifyed. they are caled red zebra fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I think it was here that we discussed this before. > > I caught several of the fish that noone could identify from photos an dmovies and photographed them. > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/564179598wxOdVu > > There's one small fish that crowded the shallower and quieter water along the entire creek, and one bigger fish that tended to speed along in the deeper center of the creek. > > There are both movies and still shots, especially of the smaller fish. The larger one ought to be easy to identify. > > What are they? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28770	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach

Ok guys, I get the picture, no loach unless I build an aquarium into the entire east wall of my living room!!! Darn, they are such a pretty fish! I really like my fish and do not want to stress them, I feel so bad when I lose one, who would have thought someone could get attached to fish! I appreciated the sites you sent me re: loaches. Think I will stick with the different kinds of Corey's by adding 2-3 more, I truly enjoy them. Thanks for the advice Viv --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > Don't scare Vivian too much. In a captive situation, the clowns rarely > exceed 12". That is still large enough to need a 3-400 gallon tank for a > group of them. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach > > There are many smaller species of loaches that would be better suited > for a > 40G. Clown Loaches get much too large.... 20" in nature. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html > > Here is a page with info on other loach species so you can check out the > needs/wants of some of the smaller species to see if your current tank > is > suitable as far as tank mates and water parameters. > http://fish.mongabay.com/botiinae.htm > > These articles also have a lot of good info including short summaries on > some of the commonly found loaches including their expected adult sizes. > Stick with the smaller species since most should be kept in groups of > five > or more. > http://www.loaches.com/articles/an-introduction-to-keeping-botia > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php? article > _id= > 188 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of vivian bradish > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach > > I really would like to get 3-4 clown loaches. I have a 40 gallon tank > with 4 > corey's , 3 serpaes, and 6 assorted platys. I know loaches can grow > quite > large and do forsee myself getting a larger tank in the future. > I just do not want to have an unsatisfactory living space for them. > If not a clown loach what other type of loach would be ok for my tank? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28771	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach

Viv, Actually, we did not mention that the clown loaches are fairly slow growers, and it takes years for them to reach a size where they would be too much for a 100 gallon tank. So, if you have a way to pass them along to someone who can take care of them when they outgrow your space, or waterproof your basement and put up glass walls so you can go down into the basement to view your fish, you may want to stick with a loach that does not get quite so large. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 4:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: To Loach or not to Loach Ok guys, I get the picture, no loach unless I build an aquarium into the entire east wall of my living room!!! Darn, they are such a pretty fish! I really like my fish and do not want to stress them, I feel so bad when I lose one, who would have thought someone could get attached to fish! I appreciated the sites you sent me re: loaches. Think I will stick with the different kinds of Corey's by adding 2-3 more, I truly enjoy them. Thanks for the advice Viv --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > Don't scare Vivian too much. In a captive situation, the clowns rarely > exceed 12". That is still large enough to need a 3-400 gallon tank for a > group of them. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach > > There are many smaller species of loaches that would be better suited > for a > 40G. Clown Loaches get much too large.... 20" in nature. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html > > Here is a page with info on other loach species so you can check out the > needs/wants of some of the smaller species to see if your current tank > is > suitable as far as tank mates and water parameters. > http://fish.mongabay.com/botiinae.htm > > These articles also have a lot of good info including short summaries on > some of the commonly found loaches including their expected adult sizes. > Stick with the smaller species since most should be kept in groups of > five > or more. > http://www.loaches.com/articles/an-introduction-to-keeping-botia > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php? article > _id= > 188 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of vivian bradish > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] To Loach or not to Loach > > I really would like to get 3-4 clown loaches. I have a 40 gallon tank > with 4 > corey's , 3 serpaes, and 6 assorted platys. I know loaches can grow > quite > large and do forsee myself getting a larger tank in the future. > I just do not want to have an unsatisfactory living space for them. > If not a clown loach what other type of loach would be ok for my tank? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28772	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

They do kindof look like Gambusia although I haven't been around them in years. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:47:19 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish Samantha: Are these gambusia? http://outdoors. webshots. com/photo/ 2225904600037409 953ZOHIyc http://outdoors. webshots. com/album/ 564179598wxOdVu http://outdoors. webshots. com/photo/ 2430683060037409 953lzdipo http://outdoors. webshots. com/photo/ 2863450390037409 953bUCfHd http://outdoors. webshots. com/photo/ 2942279560037409 953kWsOgQ http://outdoors. webshots. com/photo/ 2337089380037409 953ZUvNpA http://outdoors. webshots. com/photo/ 2836926640037409 953hmdcBf http://outdoors. webshots. com/photo/ 2193651300037409 953UhgMtd http://outdoors. webshots. com/photo/ 2251165680037409 953AErwMh Each photo has a place underneath - magnifying glass with + - where you can click to blow it up. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: rosette55@webtv. net To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:48 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish hi Dora i live in Austin and the only fish i ever see in the local creeks are the dreaded "mosquito fish" a Gambusia species as someone pointed out. they are little terrors. please don't put them in a tank with any other species or it will not be a pretty sight. you shouldn't do it anyway because of the introduction of foreign parasites and bacteria etc. to your established fish. i would be curious to know what you do find out. Amazonia on Airport should know or have a reference book that you can look them up in. samantha [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28773	From: sOhAm Mukherjee	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

I think they are gambusia. On 7/22/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Samantha: > > Are these gambusia? > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2225904600037409953ZOHIyc > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/564179598wxOdVu > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2430683060037409953lzdipo > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2863450390037409953bUCfHd > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2942279560037409953kWsOgQ > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2337089380037409953ZUvNpA > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2836926640037409953hmdcBf > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2193651300037409953UhgMtd > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2251165680037409953AErwMh > > Each photo has a place underneath - magnifying glass with + - where you can > click to blow it up. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: rosette55@... <rosette55%40webtv.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:48 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish > > hi Dora i live in Austin and the only fish i ever see in the local > creeks are the dreaded "mosquito fish" a Gambusia species as someone > pointed out. they are little terrors. please don't put them in a tank > with any other species or it will not be a pretty sight. you shouldn't > do it anyway because of the introduction of foreign parasites and > bacteria etc. to your established fish. i would be curious to know what > you do find out. Amazonia on Airport should know or have a reference > book that you can look them up in. samantha > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- sOhAm mukherjee Madras Crocodile Bank Trust +91 9940052964 +91 9381898263 "Experience should be counted not in years but in frequency of action" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28774	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

That they're gambusia is the one thing that the two UT professors and one wildlife biologists I reached today agree on. They also agree that the bigger fish is a minnow, probalby a shiner. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Kate Conrow To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish They do kindof look like Gambusia although I haven't been around them in years. Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28775	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

Local fish store near me keeps a tank full of feeder fish. Now, my housemate thinks my tetras and danios are feeder fish, like I somehow got tricked. I look it up, actually feeder fish are small and undesirable specimens of ordinary tropical fish and goldfish. What kind of fish are teh feeder fish? I ask. ""Oh, those are gambusia"" I get told. LOL. They could've taken a net down to the local creek and filled their tank in a minute or two. I understand that actually gambusia are an invasive species that came from peoples'aquariums. Why on earth anyone'd want them in their aquariums. Maybe they were left over feeder fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: jackcollora To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:52 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? i have just bought these fish in a store in anihime california they look like the pictures of the fish trying to be identifyed. they are caled red zebra fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I think it was here that we discussed this before. > > I caught several of the fish that noone could identify from photos an dmovies and photographed them. > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/564179598wxOdVu > > There's one small fish that crowded the shallower and quieter water along the entire creek, and one bigger fish that tended to speed along in the deeper center of the creek. > > There are both movies and still shots, especially of the smaller fish. The larger one ought to be easy to identify. > > What are they? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28776	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

Gambusia are actually pretty neat little fish. There are a whole slew of species, the ones most commonly seen in the hobby being _Gambusia affinis_ and _Gambusia holbrooki_. Don't be so quick to blame hobbyists for the introduction of various Gambusia into non-native waters. They were introduced as a mosquito predator, which they really are not, by people who did not do their homework. The mosquito fish is more a reference to their size rather than their diet. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? Local fish store near me keeps a tank full of feeder fish. Now, my housemate thinks my tetras and danios are feeder fish, like I somehow got tricked. I look it up, actually feeder fish are small and undesirable specimens of ordinary tropical fish and goldfish. What kind of fish are teh feeder fish? I ask. ""Oh, those are gambusia"" I get told. LOL. They could've taken a net down to the local creek and filled their tank in a minute or two. I understand that actually gambusia are an invasive species that came from peoples'aquariums. Why on earth anyone'd want them in their aquariums. Maybe they were left over feeder fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: jackcollora To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:52 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? i have just bought these fish in a store in anihime california they look like the pictures of the fish trying to be identifyed. they are caled red zebra fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I think it was here that we discussed this before. > > I caught several of the fish that noone could identify from photos an dmovies and photographed them. > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/564179598wxOdVu > > There's one small fish that crowded the shallower and quieter water along the entire creek, and one bigger fish that tended to speed along in the deeper center of the creek. > > There are both movies and still shots, especially of the smaller fish. The larger one ought to be easy to identify. > > What are they? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28777	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

No. They were released to eat mosquitos. Released into the environment by government agencies. -Mike In a message dated 7/22/2008 5:53:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: I understand that actually gambusia are an invasive species that came from peoples'aquariums. Why on earth anyone'd want them in their aquariums. Maybe they were left over feeder fish? **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28778	From: Karen Briand	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: non profit group looking for volunteers.

Hello there, sorry I haven't replyed to you sooner. I have been very busy lately, with family matters. To answer your question I am In Halifax, Nova Scotia.. Canada..You see we have nothing on the atlantic coast of canada of this calaber and this is what my goal is to build an aquarium in our city.. If you think that you may be able to lend a hand to anything such as types of endangered fish that will be able to have as an exhibit.... costs of what it would take to mantain such an exhibit... Endangered, yes for the simple reson that i will be rellying heavyly on grants to maintain this facility and the government is more likely to pay for that type of aquatic life..there are many faucets of this venture and anyone that you maybe able to help in will be fully appreciated..thank you also fro your interest.. BTW what is it that you do?   Karen --- On Sat, 7/5/08, L. Gove <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: From: L. Gove <KWELYROOS71@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] non profit group looking for volunteers. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Received: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 12:05 AM Ooooo that sounds fun! where are u? On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Karen <karen_briand@ yahoo.ca> wrote: > Hello, This is my first post since i have joined this group, but I have > been a memeber for a while now. you all seem very educated at taking > care of aquatic animals of all sizes. > > I have started a non profit charitale group by the name of : the > Maritime Aquatic Institute of the Atlantic Association, Our mandate is > to create a proposal to build a 100,000+ Gallon Aquarium on the site > formally known as Shannon Park. I have alot of information reguarding > this but not much direction, I am looking for volunteers that can give > me any input and people who are willing to take this journey with me > and my other associates,i thought that one of the first places I would > try would be with people who simply love aquatic animals and who would > like to see different spiecies be preserved. If this fits you please > contact me, > Karen Briand at > The_MAI_of_the_ Atlantic@ yahoo.ca <The_MAI_of_ the_Atlantic% 40yahoo.ca> > Thank you all in advance. > Karen > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@ live.com on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@ gmail.com kwelyroos71@ yahoo.com kwelyroos71@ gmail.com http://www.icraft ca/dark_moon_ crafts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28779	From: Karen Briand	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: no profit group looking for volunteers.

Thank you so much for your interest and valuble infor that you have contributed.. any help is good help and I truely appreciate it.. Sorry it has taken me so long to return your email; I have recently had a few family issues that needed my attention and haven't been on line. thank you again and I am looking forward to corrisponding with me.. Karen --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Jack Collora <jackcollora@...> wrote: From: Jack Collora <jackcollora@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] no profit group looking for volunteers. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Received: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 11:22 AM sounds cool i dont have much personal experiance (to my greatest dislike) but their was a guy who did it before with an only 50k in his back yard. go to monster fish tanks.com. ive been studying architeccture of tanks and you would need a formula for the glass with. theirs probly a simple formula that slips my mi d. anothjer thing is the need for a silicon strong enough to hold it. another simple formula but if your not confident with your own calculations you can give it to a profesional one and have him check it over.. after that is the real fun part making it actually viewablue. now for that you can do several things. you could make the tanks center around the center make a tunnel gooing rite through. or the american way of seeing only through one wall. if you relly w  ant the kind of help i think you want then an architect.(or the monster fish tank guy) . if you want stocking ideas im still not sure but look on liveaquari.com they ahve a monster fish section it has 5 fish that are gient :) (plz escuse the spelling my computers mesing up  and blockign my sight.) hope you have fun with this project. --- On Sat, 7/5/08, sharden47@aol. com <sharden47@aol. com> wrote: From: sharden47@aol. com <sharden47@aol. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] non profit group looking for volunteers. To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 7:12 PM Send me more info. This sounds like fun. Red Oak In a message dated 7/4/2008 9:58:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, karen_briand@ yahoo.ca writes: Hello, This is my first post since i have joined this group, but I have been a memeber for a while now. you all seem very educated at taking care of aquatic animals of all sizes. I have started a non profit charitale group by the name of : the Maritime Aquatic Institute of the Atlantic Association, Our mandate is to create a proposal to build a 100,000+ Gallon Aquarium on the site formally known as Shannon Park. I have alot of information reguarding this but not much direction, I am looking for volunteers that can give me any input and people who are willing to take this journey with me and my other associates,i thought that one of the first places I would try would be with people who simply love aquatic animals and who would like to see different spiecies be preserved. If this fits you please contact me, Karen Briand at _The_MAI_of_ the_The_MAI_ oThe_MAI_ _ (mailto:The_ MAI_of_the_ Atlantic@ yahoo.ca) Thank you all in advance. Karen .. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28780	From: Karen Briand	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: non profit group looking for volunteers.

Thank you for you interest. what are some of the things that you feel would be an asset to our organization ..Help is needed at all levels.. BTW I am in Halifax NS, canada --- On Sat, 7/5/08, sharden47@... <sharden47@...> wrote: From: sharden47@... <sharden47@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] non profit group looking for volunteers. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Received: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 4:12 PM Send me more info. This sounds like fun. Red Oak In a message dated 7/4/2008 9:58:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, karen_briand@ yahoo.ca writes: Hello, This is my first post since i have joined this group, but I have been a memeber for a while now. you all seem very educated at taking care of aquatic animals of all sizes. I have started a non profit charitale group by the name of : the Maritime Aquatic Institute of the Atlantic Association, Our mandate is to create a proposal to build a 100,000+ Gallon Aquarium on the site formally known as Shannon Park. I have alot of information reguarding this but not much direction, I am looking for volunteers that can give me any input and people who are willing to take this journey with me and my other associates,i thought that one of the first places I would try would be with people who simply love aquatic animals and who would like to see different spiecies be preserved. If this fits you please contact me, Karen Briand at _The_MAI_of_ the_The_MAI_ oThe_MAI_ _ (mailto:The_MAI_of_the_ Atlantic@ yahoo.ca) Thank you all in advance. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28781	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

LOL! Well, that could explain what is NOT happening to the mosquitos! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? Gambusia are actually pretty neat little fish. There are a whole slew of species, the ones most commonly seen in the hobby being _Gambusia affinis_ and _Gambusia holbrooki_. Don't be so quick to blame hobbyists for the introduction of various Gambusia into non-native waters. They were introduced as a mosquito predator, which they really are not, by people who did not do their homework. The mosquito fish is more a reference to their size rather than their diet. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? Local fish store near me keeps a tank full of feeder fish. Now, my housemate thinks my tetras and danios are feeder fish, like I somehow got tricked. I look it up, actually feeder fish are small and undesirable specimens of ordinary tropical fish and goldfish. What kind of fish are teh feeder fish? I ask. ""Oh, those are gambusia"" I get told. LOL. They could've taken a net down to the local creek and filled their tank in a minute or two. I understand that actually gambusia are an invasive species that came from peoples'aquariums. Why on earth anyone'd want them in their aquariums. Maybe they were left over feeder fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: jackcollora To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:52 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? i have just bought these fish in a store in anihime california they look like the pictures of the fish trying to be identifyed. they are caled red zebra fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I think it was here that we discussed this before. > > I caught several of the fish that noone could identify from photos an dmovies and photographed them. > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/564179598wxOdVu > > There's one small fish that crowded the shallower and quieter water along the entire creek, and one bigger fish that tended to speed along in the deeper center of the creek. > > There are both movies and still shots, especially of the smaller fish. The larger one ought to be easy to identify. > > What are they? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28782	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

By government agencies?! Bush agencies? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? No. They were released to eat mosquitos. Released into the environment by government agencies. -Mike In a message dated 7/22/2008 5:53:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: I understand that actually gambusia are an invasive species that came from peoples'aquariums. Why on earth anyone'd want them in their aquariums. Maybe they were left over feeder fish? **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28783	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=4521 Actually, the Eastern species - the holbrooki - are cute, pretty, and just the right size for my 10 gallon aquarium. Apparently they not only don't eat the mosquitoes, they eat other fish that DO eat mosquitos. This explains the explosion in mosquitos. They were introduced into a number of countries for mosquto control. I haven't yet learned where they're native to. I'm getting the idea they're actually native to the U.S.! Herons like gambusias, and they particularly like the larger, fatter females. LOL. One study found they almost exclusively eat females. This explains why they stand stock still in the creek waiting for long periods of time though the creek is crowded with gambusia, and why it's relatively hard to catch full grown gambusia. http://www.hiltonpond.org/PNMosquitoFish860615.html Fish have wreaked havoc on many aspects of the ecology of foreign lands, primarily because they consume fish eggs with the same voracity they use on mosquito larvae. In Thailand, the Philippines, and the lower Nile valley they have completely wiped out several endangered native fish species, throwing other parts of the ecosystem out of balance. Even in this country, when stocked as food for largemouth bass in commercial hatcheries the Mosquito Fish quickly turned the tables and destroyed large numbers of bass eggs instead Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? Gambusia are actually pretty neat little fish. There are a whole slew of species, the ones most commonly seen in the hobby being _Gambusia affinis_ and _Gambusia holbrooki_. Don't be so quick to blame hobbyists for the introduction of various Gambusia into non-native waters. They were introduced as a mosquito predator, which they really are not, by people who did not do their homework. The mosquito fish is more a reference to their size rather than their diet. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? Local fish store near me keeps a tank full of feeder fish. Now, my housemate thinks my tetras and danios are feeder fish, like I somehow got tricked. I look it up, actually feeder fish are small and undesirable specimens of ordinary tropical fish and goldfish. What kind of fish are teh feeder fish? I ask. ""Oh, those are gambusia"" I get told. LOL. They could've taken a net down to the local creek and filled their tank in a minute or two. I understand that actually gambusia are an invasive species that came from peoples'aquariums. Why on earth anyone'd want them in their aquariums. Maybe they were left over feeder fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: jackcollora To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:52 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? i have just bought these fish in a store in anihime california they look like the pictures of the fish trying to be identifyed. they are caled red zebra fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I think it was here that we discussed this before. > > I caught several of the fish that noone could identify from photos an dmovies and photographed them. > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/564179598wxOdVu > > There's one small fish that crowded the shallower and quieter water along the entire creek, and one bigger fish that tended to speed along in the deeper center of the creek. > > There are both movies and still shots, especially of the smaller fish. The larger one ought to be easy to identify. > > What are they? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28784	From: jamesewerjr	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: My red devil

Hey i have a pretty large red devil that i am thinking of selling if the price is right.My question is how do i know how much to ask for this fish? It is about 10 inchs long and a rather large in size about 1 or 2 lbs,and around 1yr old. Any ideas or advice would be helpful. I am hopeing that any info can be emaild to me because i do not get to the group page as often as i should so please responed with an email .....thanks james

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28785	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

? That is so far off base. Try local Gov't. agencies. County, city and state. Not Federal. In a message dated 7/23/2008 8:06:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: By government agencies?! Bush agencies? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28786	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: My red devil

James, You should probably change your group settings so that you receive an email, probably the Daily Digest in your case if you don't like getting lots of email. I rarely go to the group's website and do nearly everything via email. Anyhow, your best bet for pricing would probably be to check out Aquabid.com and see what others are selling them for. I think for a large fish, it's kind of finding the right buyer. The right buyer who has a large tank and system that needs your fish would be more willing to pay a higher price than someone who would have to consider the cost of setting up a large system. On Craigslist and other places, I see people giving away large fish. You could also try your LFS. I was able to rehome a 10" common pleco and got $25.00 store credit and they sold him the next day for $50.00 to someone with a BIG tank. He was just getting too big for my 65G. I got him in 2005 when I rescued/adopted a severely overstocked 10G tank and he was 4" in that tank and grew to 10" in my 65G in just two years. I was planning on a pair of 150's so I could keep him but Hurricane Katrina changed all of my plans for now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jamesewerjr Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My red devil Hey i have a pretty large red devil that i am thinking of selling if the price is right.My question is how do i know how much to ask for this fish? It is about 10 inchs long and a rather large in size about 1 or 2 lbs,and around 1yr old. Any ideas or advice would be helpful. I am hopeing that any info can be emaild to me because i do not get to the group page as often as i should so please responed with an email .....thanks james No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.5/1569 - Release Date: 7/23/2008 1:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28787	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

LOL. I see! I also can see from the web sites that I looked at that you're right. I'd expect something like that from teh Bush administration. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? ? That is so far off base. Try local Gov't. agencies. County, city and state. Not Federal. In a message dated 7/23/2008 8:06:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: By government agencies?! Bush agencies? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28788	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

This was happening long before Bush Senior was in office. Trying to link it to a politician you dislike baffles me. In a message dated 7/23/2008 10:10:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: LOL. I see! I also can see from the web sites that I looked at that you're right. I'd expect something like that from teh Bush administration. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28789	From: sevenspringss	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish? OFF TOPIC

Such political remarks do not belong on an aquarium related forum such as this one. Political opinions -- whether Republican or Democratic -- are OFF TOPIC here. Further politics-related posts may be deleted in the future, while being moderated. R.W. Moderator --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I'd expect something like that from teh Bush administration. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Deenerz@... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:50 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? > > > > ? That is so far off base. > > Try local Gov't. agencies. County, city and state. Not Federal. > > In a message dated 7/23/2008 8:06:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > tiggernut24@... writes: > > By government agencies?! Bush agencies? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28790	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

UT professors huh? That's where I am. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:49:19 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish That they're gambusia is the one thing that the two UT professors and one wildlife biologists I reached today agree on. They also agree that the bigger fish is a minnow, probalby a shiner. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Kate Conrow To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish They do kindof look like Gambusia although I haven't been around them in years. Kate [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

LOL... I had a much LONGER reply that I decided to send her directly, rather than post it to the group. Here's a copy below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com OH GOD DORA... I guess you want to blame your neighbors sinus problems on President Bush also... God, some libs are so pathetic with their naïveté. The federal government rarely gets involved in what happens at the local level. Maybe, our federal tax dollars were wasted because some ignorant college professor or other public official wrote a grant request for a local government agency to get federal money but President Bush didn't do it. Now there is a possibility of it happening when President Bush was the governor of Texas but even then, it's usually a municipality filing a request for a federal or State grant so the Governor of a State isn't personally or even remotely involved. Same with pre- and post-Katrina things that happened down here in New Orleans. Other than the design/construction of the levees which, for the most part, was overseen by the U.S. Army Corp Of Engineers, all of the disaster planning pre- and post- was done by local agencies... and in our case, we had a woman democrat governor and a black democrat Mayor and New Orleans has been pitifully run by democrats for the past 100 years or so. Until Gov. Blanco (a woman democrat) "asked" for the federal money, supplies and troops, etc., the federal government cannot send troops and supplies into a State. I always say this to democrats and libs. Democrats and minorities have been running most of the major cities in our country for the past 20 years plus and things have only gotten much worse in most of them. The economy in most inner-cities suck. The schools suck. The roads suck, etc., etc., but the democrat voters keep voting the pathetic so-called leaders back into office. Democratic leadership doesn't really help poor people.. it just helps them stay poor so the leadership can stay in power. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? ? That is so far off base. Try local Gov't. agencies. County, city and state. Not Federal. In a message dated 7/23/2008 8:06:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> writes: By government agencies?! Bush agencies? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020 <http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020> ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.5/1569 - Release Date: 7/23/2008 1:31 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.5/1569 - Release Date: 7/23/2008 1:31 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28792	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

We got them years ago from the mosqito abatement place to stock our ponds. We thought they seemed to help. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 7:56:31 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? Gambusia are actually pretty neat little fish. There are a whole slew of species, the ones most commonly seen in the hobby being _Gambusia affinis_ and _Gambusia holbrooki_. Don't be so quick to blame hobbyists for the introduction of various Gambusia into non-native waters. They were introduced as a mosquito predator, which they really are not, by people who did not do their homework. The mosquito fish is more a reference to their size rather than their diet. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? Local fish store near me keeps a tank full of feeder fish. Now, my housemate thinks my tetras and danios are feeder fish, like I somehow got tricked. I look it up, actually feeder fish are small and undesirable specimens of ordinary tropical fish and goldfish. What kind of fish are teh feeder fish? I ask. ""Oh, those are gambusia"" I get told. LOL. They could've taken a net down to the local creek and filled their tank in a minute or two. I understand that actually gambusia are an invasive species that came from peoples'aquariums. Why on earth anyone'd want them in their aquariums. Maybe they were left over feeder fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: jackcollora To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:52 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? i have just bought these fish in a store in anihime california they look like the pictures of the fish trying to be identifyed. they are caled red zebra fish. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > I think it was here that we discussed this before. > > I caught several of the fish that noone could identify from photos an dmovies and photographed them. > > http://outdoors. webshots. com/album/ 564179598wxOdVu > > There's one small fish that crowded the shallower and quieter water along the entire creek, and one bigger fish that tended to speed along in the deeper center of the creek. > > There are both movies and still shots, especially of the smaller fish. The larger one ought to be easy to identify. > > What are they? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ ... > ----- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28793	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

Lenny, Don't let my short admonishment dissuade you from sending your message. I personally like what you've written, and I think she deserves a little shaking up. She is the enigma though; just when she makes herself look like a scatterbrain, she comes off with something resembling intelligence, like that piece on Gambusia holbrooki, etc. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28794	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power

My power filter finally gave up for good; got another one temporarily to get it going. Petsmart doesn't have impellers. Now to fix the impeller on the old one. I notice that the instructions say to clean the impeller every month. I also notice that all over the web people are saying Marineland staff told them to clean the impeller. Someone on one of these lists told me to put grease on the impeller tube. I think most likely the impeller needs changing. Instructions don't say how to get at the impeller, how to remove it, nor how to install it. Google isn't turning up such instructions either. Tried calling Marineland (United Pet Group); it's ""after hours"". Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28795	From: Robb	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Thank you and more advice needed

First I want to say many thanks for those that suggested my new pump. It runs great and the maintenance is so easy. I also started to do some aquascaping and its coming along ok, but I'd like to do more. Right now I just have some rock down for the fish to hide, but want to get it better so what else do you guys use? Also my Pleco in there I know is looking for algae and I throw wafers in there from time to time (Pretty far spread), but I'm wondering if I should be concerned due to the fact I never see algae on the glass for them to eat. Thanks again, Robb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28796	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p

Dora, I really doubt your impeller is broken unless something got in there and broke the blades. It may be jammed with a rock, plants or even a dead fish, but probably not broken. This link should show you a blow up diagram of the internals of the 170, the other models are the same unless you have one of the newer ones. I do not recall the exact model you have. http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/products/productdiagram.aspx?cid=2342&id=2054&mid=3226 Remove the intake, then remove number 4, which comes straight up out the top of the filter. After that you should be able to reach down with your hand and use your finger tips to remove the impeller straight out. Make sure the unit is unplgged. If the impeller is gunked up or has broken pieces you should know right away. Sometimes the impeller will break in a fashion that allows it spin without turning the blades. Once you have it in your hands you will be able to tell. Reassemble it and plug it in for a moment to see if it spins. then unplug it so it does not overheat. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 3:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? My power filter finally gave up for good; got another one temporarily to get it going. Petsmart doesn't have impellers. Now to fix the impeller on the old one. I notice that the instructions say to clean20the impeller every month. I also notice that all over the web people are saying Marineland staff told them to clean the impeller. Someone on one of these lists told me to put grease on the impeller tube. I think most likely the impeller needs changing. Instructions don't say how to get at the impeller, how to remove it, nor how to install it. Google isn't turning up such instructions either. Tried calling Marineland (United Pet Group); it's ""after hours"". Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28797	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

That I don't think Bush is very intelligent? You all are dreaming that I'm an enigma! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? Lenny, Don't let my short admonishment dissuade you from sending your message. I personally like what you've written, and I think she deserves a little shaking up. She is the enigma though; just when she makes herself look like a scatterbrain, she comes off with something resembling intelligence, like that piece on Gambusia holbrooki, etc. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28798	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p

I have the 100. What's the difference between the new model and the old one, and how do I know which I have? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? Dora, I really doubt your impeller is broken unless something got in there and broke the blades. It may be jammed with a rock, plants or even a dead fish, but probably not broken. This link should show you a blow up diagram of the internals of the 170, the other models are the same unless you have one of the newer ones. I do not recall the exact model you have. http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/products/productdiagram.aspx?cid=2342&id=2054&mid=3226 Remove the intake, then remove number 4, which comes straight up out the top of the filter. After that you should be able to reach down with your hand and use your finger tips to remove the impeller straight out. Make sure the unit is unplgged. If the impeller is gunked up or has broken pieces you should know right away. Sometimes the impeller will break in a fashion that allows it spin without turning the blades. Once you have it in your hands you will be able to tell. Reassemble it and plug it in for a moment to see if it spins. then unplug it so it does not overheat. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 3:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? My power filter finally gave up for good; got another one temporarily to get it going. Petsmart doesn't have impellers. Now to fix the impeller on the old one. I notice that the instructions say to clean20the impeller every month. I also notice that all over the web people are saying Marineland staff told them to clean the impeller. Someone on one of these lists told me to put grease on the impeller tube. I think most likely the impeller needs changing. Instructions don't say how to get at the impeller, how to remove it, nor how to install it. Google isn't turning up such instructions either. Tried calling Marineland (United Pet Group); it's ""after hours"". Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28799	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p

Actually the same diagram is in my paperwork. What I need is how to get into the impeller housing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? Dora, I really doubt your impeller is broken unless something got in there and broke the blades. It may be jammed with a rock, plants or even a dead fish, but probably not broken. This link should show you a blow up diagram of the internals of the 170, the other models are the same unless you have one of the newer ones. I do not recall the exact model you have. http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/products/productdiagram.aspx?cid=2342&id=2054&mid=3226 Remove the intake, then remove number 4, which comes straight up out the top of the filter. After that you should be able to reach down with your hand and use your finger tips to remove the impeller straight out. Make sure the unit is unplgged. If the impeller is gunked up or has broken pieces you should know right away. Sometimes the impeller will break in a fashion that allows it spin without turning the blades. Once you have it in your hands you will be able to tell. Reassemble it and plug it in for a moment to see if it spins. then unplug it so it does not overheat. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 3:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? My power filter finally gave up for good; got another one temporarily to get it going. Petsmart doesn't have impellers. Now to fix the impeller on the old one. I notice that the instructions say to clean20the impeller every month. I also notice that all over the web people are saying Marineland staff told them to clean the impeller. Someone on one of these lists told me to put grease on the impeller tube. I think most likely the impeller needs changing. Instructions don't say how to get at the impeller, how to remove it, nor how to install it. Google isn't turning up such instructions either. Tried calling Marineland (United Pet Group); it's ""after hours"". Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28800	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

No, not Bush agencies. Decades ago before people thought it was cool to use ad hominem attacks on the person and office of the presidency. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? By government agencies?! Bush agencies? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? No. They were released to eat mosquitos. Released into the environment by government agencies. -Mike In a message dated 7/22/2008 5:53:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: I understand that actually gambusia are an invasive species that came from peoples'aquariums. Why on earth anyone'd want them in their aquariums. Maybe they were left over feeder fish? **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28801	From: risika23	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: New Member

Hello. I'm a new member. I have a 55 gallon fish tank with 7 dojo loachs in it and a few danios. I have noticed that my tank has a smell to it. I know that these are fish and they will smell. I was wondering if this is normal. You can only smell it when you open the tank lid. Any help would be great. Jennifer

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28802	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p

You don't get into the housing. The diagram is clear. You pull the impeller straight up and out of the housing, like pulling a pencil out of a sharpener. Actually the same diagram is in my paperwork. What I need is how to get into the impeller housing. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 5:00 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? Actually the same diagram is in my paperwork. What I need is how to get into the impeller housing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? Dora, I really doubt your impeller is broken unless something got in there and broke the blades. It may be jammed with a rock, plants or even a dead fish, but probably not broken. This link should show you a blow up diagram of the internals of the 170, the other models are the same unless you have one of the newer ones. I do not recall the exact model you have. http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/products/productdiagram.aspx?cid=2342&id=2054&mid=3226 Remove the intake, then remove number 4, which comes straight up out the top of the filter. After that you should be able to reach down with your hand and use your20finger tips to remove the impeller straight out. Make sure the unit is unplgged. If the impeller is gunked up or has broken pieces you should know right away. Sometimes the impeller will break in a fashion that allows it spin without turning the blades. Once you have it in your hands you will be able to tell. Reassemble it and plug it in for a moment to see if it spins. then unplug it so it does not overheat. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 3:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? My power filter finally gave up for good; got another one temporarily to get it going. Petsmart doesn't have impellers. Now to fix the impeller on the old one. I notice that the instructions say to clean20the impeller every month. I also notice that all over the web people are saying Marineland staff told them to clean the impeller. Someone on one of these lists told me to put grease on the impeller tube. I think most likely the impeller needs changing. Instructions don't say how to get at the impeller, how to remove it, nor how to install it. Google isn't turning up such instructions either. Tried calling Marineland (United Pet Group); it's ""after hours"". Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of20this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28803	From: andrea	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: My red devil

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jamesewerjr" <jamesewerjr@...> wrote: > > Hey i have a pretty large red devil that i am thinking of selling if > the price is right.My question is how do i know how much to ask for > this fish? It is about 10 inchs long and a rather large in size about 1 > or 2 lbs,and around 1yr old. Any ideas or advice would be helpful. I am > hopeing that any info can be emaild to me because i do not get to the > group page as often as i should so please responed with an > email .....thanks james > I think that the most important thing if u really want to sell your red devil should be that the person who wants it can give it a good home and can take care of it by providing it a big enough tank and just make sure its taken care of. I just think that is more important then how much you could make off by selling it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28804	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

Kate, I'm not following. Are you a UT professor, or consulting UT professors? Or a student at UT? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Kate Conrow To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish UT professors huh? That's where I am. Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28805	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p

How exactly do you pull the impeller straight up? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? You don't get into the housing. The diagram is clear. You pull the impeller straight up and out of the housing, like pulling a pencil out of a sharpener. Actually the same diagram is in my paperwork. What I need is how to get into the impeller housing. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 5:00 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? Actually the same diagram is in my paperwork. What I need is how to get into the impeller housing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? Dora, I really doubt your impeller is broken unless something got in there and broke the blades. It may be jammed with a rock, plants or even a dead fish, but probably not broken. This link should show you a blow up diagram of the internals of the 170, the other models are the same unless you have one of the newer ones. I do not recall the exact model you have. http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/products/productdiagram.aspx?cid=2342&id=2054&mid=3226 Remove the intake, then remove number 4, which comes straight up out the top of the filter. After that you should be able to reach down with your hand and use your20finger tips to remove the impeller straight out. Make sure the unit is unplgged. If the impeller is gunked up or has broken pieces you should know right away. Sometimes the impeller will break in a fashion that allows it spin without turning the blades. Once you have it in your hands you will be able to tell. Reassemble it and plug it in for a moment to see if it spins. then unplug it so it does not overheat. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 3:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? My power filter finally gave up for good; got another one temporarily to get it going. Petsmart doesn't have impellers. Now to fix the impeller on the old one. I notice that the instructions say to clean20the impeller every month. I also notice that all over the web people are saying Marineland staff told them to clean the impeller. Someone on one of these lists told me to put grease on the impeller tube. I think most likely the impeller needs changing. Instructions don't say how to get at the impeller, how to remove it, nor how to install it. Google isn't turning up such instructions either. Tried calling Marineland (United Pet Group); it's ""after hours"". Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of20this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28806	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

I am a student in UT, but not sure what you're not following. I was just responding to someone talking about professors from my area. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:56:16 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish Kate, I'm not following. Are you a UT professor, or consulting UT professors? Or a student at UT? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Kate Conrow To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish UT professors huh? That's where I am. Kate [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28807	From: Matthew O' Farrell	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Grab the black plastic #4 houseing with your fingers and pull up the impaller will come with it. Then pull the impeller out of the houseing rinse under water using your fingers to rub off slim. Then get a bottle cleaning brush and clean the hole that the impellar goes into. Put back together the same way. > How exactly do you pull the impeller straight up? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Deenerz@... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 8:47 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? > > > You don't get into the housing. The diagram is clear. You pull the impeller straight up and out of the housing, like pulling a pencil out of a sharpener. > > Actually the same diagram is in my paperwork. What I need is how to get into the impeller housing. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 5:00 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? > > Actually the same diagram is in my paperwork. What I need is how to get into the impeller housing. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Deenerz@... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:14 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? > > Dora, > > I really doubt your impeller is broken unless something got in there and broke the blades. It may be jammed with a rock, plants or even a dead fish, but probably not broken. > > This link should show you a blow up diagram of the internals of the 170, the other models are the same unless you have one of the newer ones. I do not recall the exact model you have. > > http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/products/productdiagram.asp x?cid=2342&id=2054&mid=3226 > > Remove the intake, then remove number 4, which comes straight up out the top of the filter. After that you should be able to reach down with your hand and use your20finger tips to remove the impeller straight out. > > Make sure the unit is unplgged. > > If the impeller is gunked up or has broken pieces you should know right away. Sometimes the impeller will break in a fashion that allows it spin without turning the blades. Once you have it in your hands you will be able to tell. > > Reassemble it and plug it in for a moment to see if it spins. then unplug it so it does not overheat. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 3:44 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? > > My power filter finally gave up for good; got another one temporarily to get it going. Petsmart doesn't have impellers. > > Now to fix the impeller on the old one. I notice that the instructions say to clean20the impeller every month. I also notice that all over the web people are saying Marineland staff told them to clean the impeller. > > Someone on one of these lists told me to put grease on the impeller tube. > > I think most likely the impeller needs changing. > > Instructions don't say how to get at the impeller, how to remove it, nor how to install it. Google isn't turning up such instructions either. > > Tried calling Marineland (United Pet Group); it's ""after hours"". > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of20this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28808	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: New Member

Hi Jennifer, I'm not sure if anyone answered you yet but can you give us your test results for your water parameters? Generally, a clean healthy tank should have no more than an earthy smell to it. Any kind of foul odor is an alert that something is wrong or possibly about to go wrong. How long has the tank been set up? What kind of filtration system(s) so you have? What is your PWC (25% partial water change) schedule? What is your filter maintenance schedule? (Check out my article on filter maintenance if you're new to the hobby) What kind of substrate? Is the tank planted with live plants? The more info the better! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of risika23 Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member Hello. I'm a new member. I have a 55 gallon fish tank with 7 dojo loachs in it and a few danios. I have noticed that my tank has a smell to it. I know that these are fish and they will smell. I was wondering if this is normal. You can only smell it when you open the tank lid. Any help would be great. Jennifer No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.5/1570 - Release Date: 7/24/2008 6:59 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28809	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: Thank you and more advice needed

Hi Robb, You mention "my Pleco" in one part and then mention "them" later in the paragraph. Do you have more than one pleco? What kind of pleco do you have? Most of them are omnivores and cannot survive on algae alone. You'll notice that most algae wafers have up to 50% protein for this reason. They are not merely scavengers and need to be fed a varied diet just like any other fish. Here's a couple of good articles on feeding pleco's. http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 (feeding in general) http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31574 (veggie list) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robb Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thank you and more advice needed First I want to say many thanks for those that suggested my new pump. It runs great and the maintenance is so easy. I also started to do some aquascaping and its coming along ok, but I'd like to do more. Right now I just have some rock down for the fish to hide, but want to get it better so what else do you guys use? Also my Pleco in there I know is looking for algae and I throw wafers in there from time to time (Pretty far spread), but I'm wondering if I should be concerned due to the fact I never see algae on the glass for them to eat. Thanks again, Robb No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.5/1570 - Release Date: 7/24/2008 6:59 AM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28810	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p

Hi Dora, I don't have either of these filters but I have had a number or rear tank hang on or some such filters. One of the units I have has the impeller drive in a plastic black box type structure that can be turned 90 degrees and taken off the filter tank. This uses a n O ring to seal from leakage. With this off you can do maintenance as needed. In other designs the impeller is pulled out by the blades as it is just sitting in there by magnetic attraction. You clean the impeller with a tooth brush and some dish soap. In other designs you just have to look how it is constructed to find out how it comes apart. If you have further trouble and can not figure out how a unit is taken apart, check the Internet at Foster and Smith and if they sell the unit there then their customer service people should be able to tell you how it comes apart. Also another member who has the same filter should also be able to tell you how it comes apart. Impellers do not break except for the blades. If it does not turn it is because of dirt that is stopping the impeller from rotation due to add friction. DO NOT put grease in the water of your fish tank. These are not designed to have any grease applied to them. If the drive has failed after several years there might be a drive part that could be obtained. Foster and Smith sells a lot of parts. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Dora Smith wrote: > > My power filter finally gave up for good; got another one temporarily > to get it going. Petsmart doesn't have impellers. > > Now to fix the impeller on the old one. I notice that the instructions > say to clean the impeller every month. I also notice that all over the > web people are saying Marineland staff told them to clean the impeller. > > Someone on one of these lists told me to put grease on the impeller tube. > > I think most likely the impeller needs changing. > > Instructions don't say how to get at the impeller, how to remove it, > nor how to install it. Google isn't turning up such instructions either. > > Tried calling Marineland (United Pet Group); it's ""after hours"". > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28811	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...

Dora, The impeller housing is in the bottom of the filter. If you look straight down from the top you can see the top of the impeller. Grab the damn thing with your finger tips and remove it. Like pulling a straw out of a bottle. You pull it straight up out of the bottle, not through the side of the glass or the bottom. One entrance. Are you sure you have a diagram? From the diagram I sent before which you state is the same you remove the filter intake pipe, then remove the thing it was resting in, which covers the impeller and retains it in place. It also comes straight up and out of the housing. Beneath it is the impeller. If you have bog hands you can use a pair of pliars and gently grab the top of the impeller and pull it straight up and away from the bottom of the filter. Not sure what else to say to you, it is very simple. In a message dated 7/24/2008 5:26:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: How exactly do you pull the impeller straight up? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28812	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...

Hi Sam, I too have some filters as you describe with the twist to remove motor, but in this case the Marineland Hang on Back the motor and impeller can only be accessed from the top. As far as soap goes I would not advise that. I know you are an experienced aquarist but it is something that does not need to be done. Regular tap water or vinegar if you need something besides water. Soap is just too risky to introduce to an aquarium. -Mike In a message dated 7/24/2008 10:12:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, skywavebe@... writes: Hi Dora, I don't have either of these filters but I have had a number or rear tank hang on or some such filters. One of the units I have has the impeller drive in a plastic black box type structure that can be turned 90 degrees and taken off the filter tank. This uses a n O ring to seal from leakage. With this off you can do maintenance as needed. In other designs the impeller is pulled out by the blades as it is just sitting in there by magnetic attraction. You clean the impeller with a tooth brush and some dish soap. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28813	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...

When I was having filter issues where it wasn't maintaining suction, ML suggested I soak the impellers in vinegar to remove any deposits and that if that didn't fix the problem, to just replace the impeller. I did that and soaking it helped for a while, but it went back to losing suction, so I just replaced them and haven't had a problem in about 2 years. Depending on the hardness of your water, I am guessing they have a 2-4 year lifespan before having to be replaced. Maybe regular soaking in vinegar might improve that. I definitely wouldn't use soap or grease as that would contaminate the water in the tank. The impeller pushes all of the water that goes through the filter so it comes in contact with it directly. Anything that is on the impeller would thus go right into the water. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... Hi Sam, I too have some filters as you describe with the twist to remove motor, but in this case the Marineland Hang on Back the motor and impeller can only be accessed from the top. As far as soap goes I would not advise that. I know you are an experienced aquarist but it is something that does not need to be done. Regular tap water or vinegar if you need something besides water. Soap is just too risky to introduce to an aquarium. -Mike In a message dated 7/24/2008 10:12:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, skywavebe@sbcglobal <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net> .net writes: Hi Dora, I don't have either of these filters but I have had a number or rear tank hang on or some such filters. One of the units I have has the impeller drive in a plastic black box type structure that can be turned 90 degrees and taken off the filter tank. This uses a n O ring to seal from leakage. With this off you can do maintenance as needed. In other designs the impeller is pulled out by the blades as it is just sitting in there by magnetic attraction. You clean the impeller with a tooth brush and some dish soap. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse <http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020> .com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28814	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p

Some pet stores do carry them, but you want to make sure that you have the right one. You can also order them online form marine labs' website. What model is the filter you are trying to repair? I know on the Emperor filters, the impeller is in a case that you pull out, then remove the bottom where the impeller sits. The bottom is like a shroud that holds the end of the impeller where the blades are and the rubber end piece sits in a "cap" that is attached to the case. The magnetic end sticks out and fits into the hollow part where the motor is. In other models and other brands of filters, you might have to remove the motor, which twists off. It should be pretty straight forward. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 5:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? My power filter finally gave up for good; got another one temporarily to get it going. Petsmart doesn't have impellers. Now to fix the impeller on the old one. I notice that the instructions say to clean the impeller every month. I also notice that all over the web people are saying Marineland staff told them to clean the impeller. Someone on one of these lists told me to put grease on the impeller tube. I think most likely the impeller needs changing. Instructions don't say how to get at the impeller, how to remove it, nor how to install it. Google isn't turning up such instructions either. Tried calling Marineland (United Pet Group); it's ""after hours"". Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28815	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...

Turning unit upside down and banging it on desk didn't remove the impeller either, if it's only held in by magnetic attraction. To be sure, I wonder if you're supposed to take the motor unit apart, but I have no instructions saying so. Box itself says not to open or submerge it. Did someone actually suggest trying to lubricate it with soap solution? LOL! Not I want to soap my fish! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... Hi Sam, I too have some filters as you describe with the twist to remove motor, but in this case the Marineland Hang on Back the motor and impeller can only be accessed from the top. As far as soap goes I would not advise that. I know you are an experienced aquarist but it is something that does not need to be done. Regular tap water or vinegar if you need something besides water. Soap is just too risky to introduce to an aquarium. -Mike In a message dated 7/24/2008 10:12:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, skywavebe@... writes: Hi Dora, I don't have either of these filters but I have had a number or rear tank hang on or some such filters. One of the units I have has the impeller drive in a plastic black box type structure that can be turned 90 degrees and taken off the filter tank. This uses a n O ring to seal from leakage. With this off you can do maintenance as needed. In other designs the impeller is pulled out by the blades as it is just sitting in there by magnetic attraction. You clean the impeller with a tooth brush and some dish soap.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28816	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Use your head! <] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marinel

OK! One more time! Put your hand in the filter and use your finger tips to remove the impeller! I HAVE POSTED THAT MANY TIMES. It will not jump out of the filter for you or fall out when you banged it on your desk. Magnets do work! If you cannot remove it by manually putting your fingers on it and pulling or using a pair of needle nose pliers and gently pulling on it then yes, it is truly stuck like I have not seen one stuck before. Until we hear back from you stating you have done that then you are wasting our time AGAIN! In a message dated 7/24/2008 7:31:37 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Turning unit upside down and banging it on desk didn't remove the impeller either, if it's only held in by magnetic attraction. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28817	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Looking for 20 gallon aquarium in Austin

If anyone here is in Austin, Texas, I'm looking for a 20 gallon tank and stand and hood. I want to upgrade from my 10 gallon setup. I am willing to trade the 20 gallon for the 10 gallon, but I have to move the setup and fish from the old tank to the new tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28818	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: Local Austin fish

Oh. Well, glad to clear that up. :) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Kate Conrow To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish I am a student in UT, but not sure what you're not following. I was just responding to someone talking about professors from my area. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:56:16 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish Kate, I'm not following. Are you a UT professor, or consulting UT professors? Or a student at UT? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Kate Conrow To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Local Austin fish UT professors huh? That's where I am. Kate [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28819	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...

Old filter is in my hand. Not hard, it was under the aquarium by my chair. Hand reaches into the tube. I can't REACH the impeller. Needle nosed pliers can't reach the impeller either. Nor any part of the tube that lifts out. Are you specifically trying to tell me how to take a Penguin apart? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... Dora, The impeller housing is in the bottom of the filter. If you look straight down from the top you can see the top of the impeller. Grab the damn thing with your finger tips and remove it. Like pulling a straw out of a bottle. You pull it straight up out of the bottle, not through the side of the glass or the bottom. One entrance. Are you sure you have a diagram? From the diagram I sent before which you state is the same you remove the filter intake pipe, then remove the thing it was resting in, which covers the impeller and retains it in place. It also comes straight up and out of the housing. Beneath it is the impeller. If you have bog hands you can use a pair of pliars and gently grab the top of the impeller and pull it straight up and away from the bottom of the filter. Not sure what else to say to you, it is very simple. In a message dated 7/24/2008 5:26:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: How exactly do you pull the impeller straight up? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28820	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...

YES! I am trying to tell you how to take the penguin apart as that is how you access the impeller. I am trying to upload photos as we speak. In a message dated 7/24/2008 8:14:31 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Old filter is in my hand. Not hard, it was under the aquarium by my chair. Hand reaches into the tube. I can't REACH the impeller. Needle nosed pliers can't reach the impeller either. Nor any part of the tube that lifts out. Are you specifically trying to tell me how to take a Penguin apart? **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28821	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Penguin 170 photos on website

Ok, I think the photos are loading now, the pics are large so they will be in several folders. Space is limited so I will remove them after a short while. In a message dated 7/24/2008 8:18:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Deenerz@... writes: YES! I am trying to tell you how to take the penguin apart as that is how you access the impeller. I am trying to upload photos as we speak. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28822	From: Jerry Lynch	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

Gambusia These fish are native to the watershed of the Gulf of Mexico <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Mexico> , where it has long been known that they feed readily on the aquatic larval <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larva> and pupal <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pupa> stages of mosquitoes <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquitoes> . They are remarkably hardy, surviving in waters of very low oxygen saturations, high salinities (including twice that of seawater), and high temperatures; they can even survive in waters up to 42 ¡ÆC for short periods. For these reasons, this species may now be the most widespread freshwater fish in the world, having been introduced as a biocontrol <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biocontrol> to tropical and temperate countries in both hemispheres, and then spreading further both naturally and through even further introductions. The majority of these introductions were foolish; in most countries where mosquitofish have been introduced it is has been proved that the endemic fish species were already providing maximal mosquito control, and that the introduction of mosquitofish has been both unnecessary and highly damaging to endemic fish and other endemic aquatic life. In Australia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia> G.holbrooki has caused great damage to native fish and frog species. For example it is considered responsible for the extinction of rainbowfish <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbowfish> in sub-tropical streams around Brisbane <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane> . --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=4521 > > Actually, the Eastern species - the holbrooki - are cute, pretty, and just the right size for my 10 gallon aquarium. > > Apparently they not only don't eat the mosquitoes, they eat other fish that DO eat mosquitos. This explains the explosion in mosquitos. They were introduced into a number of countries for mosquto control. I haven't yet learned where they're native to. I'm getting the idea they're actually native to the U.S.! > > Herons like gambusias, and they particularly like the larger, fatter females. LOL. One study found they almost exclusively eat females. This explains why they stand stock still in the creek waiting for long periods of time though the creek is crowded with gambusia, and why it's relatively hard to catch full grown gambusia. > > http://www.hiltonpond.org/PNMosquitoFish860615.html > Fish have wreaked havoc on many aspects of the ecology of foreign lands, primarily because they consume fish eggs with the same voracity they use on mosquito larvae. In Thailand, the Philippines, and the lower Nile valley they have completely wiped out several endangered native fish species, throwing other parts of the ecosystem out of balance. Even in this country, when stocked as food for largemouth bass in commercial hatcheries the Mosquito Fish quickly turned the tables and destroyed large numbers of bass eggs instead > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:56 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? > > > Gambusia are actually pretty neat little fish. There are a whole slew of > species, the ones most commonly seen in the hobby being _Gambusia > affinis_ and _Gambusia holbrooki_. > > Don't be so quick to blame hobbyists for the introduction of various > Gambusia into non-native waters. They were introduced as a mosquito > predator, which they really are not, by people who did not do their > homework. The mosquito fish is more a reference to their size rather > than their diet. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? > > Local fish store near me keeps a tank full of feeder fish. Now, my > housemate thinks my tetras and danios are feeder fish, like I somehow > got tricked. I look it up, actually feeder fish are small and > undesirable specimens of ordinary tropical fish and goldfish. > > What kind of fish are teh feeder fish? I ask. ""Oh, those are > gambusia"" I get told. LOL. They could've taken a net down to the > local creek and filled their tank in a minute or two. > > I understand that actually gambusia are an invasive species that came > from peoples'aquariums. Why on earth anyone'd want them in their > aquariums. Maybe they were left over feeder fish? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jackcollora > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:52 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? > > i have just bought these fish in a store in anihime california they > look like the pictures of the fish trying to be identifyed. they are > caled red zebra fish. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" tiggernut24@ > wrote: > > > > I think it was here that we discussed this before. > > > > I caught several of the fish that noone could identify from photos > an dmovies and photographed them. > > > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/564179598wxOdVu > > > > There's one small fish that crowded the shallower and quieter water > along the entire creek, and one bigger fish that tended to speed along > in the deeper center of the creek. > > > > There are both movies and still shots, especially of the smaller > fish. The larger one ought to be easy to identify. > > > > What are they? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28823	From: Jerry Lynch	Date: 7/24/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin p

All of those filters are very easy to take apart. You just start pulling pieces & in about 15 seconds you have them scattered all over the table. There aren't that many pieces anyway. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Some pet stores do carry them, but you want to make sure that you have the > right one. You can also order them online form marine labs' website. What > model is the filter you are trying to repair? I know on the Emperor > filters, the impeller is in a case that you pull out, then remove the bottom > where the impeller sits. The bottom is like a shroud that holds the end of > the impeller where the blades are and the rubber end piece sits in a "cap" > that is attached to the case. The magnetic end sticks out and fits into the > hollow part where the motor is. In other models and other brands of > filters, you might have to remove the motor, which twists off. It should > be pretty straight forward. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 5:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a > Marineland/ Penguin power filter? > > > > My power filter finally gave up for good; got another one temporarily to get > it going. Petsmart doesn't have impellers. > > Now to fix the impeller on the old one. I notice that the instructions say > to clean the impeller every month. I also notice that all over the web > people are saying Marineland staff told them to clean the impeller. > > Someone on one of these lists told me to put grease on the impeller tube. > > I think most likely the impeller needs changing. > > Instructions don't say how to get at the impeller, how to remove it, nor how > to install it. Google isn't turning up such instructions either. > > Tried calling Marineland (United Pet Group); it's ""after hours"". > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28824	From: babsdvs	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...

Thanks Eric for this answer. I too am experiencing low suction with my Penguin and have cleaned the impeller at lest twice. It is probably easier for me to replace the entire filter and fiddle with the old one at my leisure. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > When I was having filter issues where it wasn't maintaining suction, ML > suggested I soak the impellers in vinegar to remove any deposits and that if > that didn't fix the problem, to just replace the impeller. I did that and > soaking it helped for a while, but it went back to losing suction, so I just > replaced them and haven't had a problem in about 2 years. Depending on the > hardness of your water, I am guessing they have a 2-4 year lifespan before > having to be replaced. Maybe regular soaking in vinegar might improve that. > I definitely wouldn't use soap or grease as that would contaminate the water > in the tank. The impeller pushes all of the water that goes through the > filter so it comes in contact with it directly. Anything that is on the > impeller would thus go right into the water. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a > Marineland/ Peng... > > > > > Hi Sam, > > I too have some filters as you describe with the twist to remove motor, but > in this case the Marineland Hang on Back the motor and impeller can only be > accessed from the top. As far as soap goes I would not advise that. I know > you > are an experienced aquarist but it is something that does not need to be > done. Regular tap water or vinegar if you need something besides water. Soap > is > just too risky to introduce to an aquarium. > > -Mike > > > In a message dated 7/24/2008 10:12:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > skywavebe@sbcglobal <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net> .net writes: > > Hi Dora, > I don't have either of these filters but I have had a number or rear > tank hang on or > some such filters. One of the units I have has the impeller drive in a > plastic black > box type structure that can be turned 90 degrees and taken off the > filter tank. > This uses a n O ring to seal from leakage. With this off you can do > maintenance > as needed. > In other designs the impeller is pulled out by the blades as it is just > sitting in there by > magnetic attraction. You clean the impeller with a tooth brush and some > dish soap. > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse > <http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020> > .com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28825	From: junglejingles	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...

Hi guys, just thought I'd share my 2 cents worth. Good info on using vinegar, I'll have to try that. I'm currently wrestling with a sluggish turbo pump used with our skimmer. Here's another thought on the impeller stuff... Sometimes impeller damage is difficult to see. The magnetic base can be damaged by minute scratches on it from debris particles that come in contact with it while it is running. This can cause it to loose suction, the only thing you can do in this case is replace it. Cheers! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> wrote: > > Thanks Eric for this answer. I too am experiencing low suction with > my Penguin and have cleaned the impeller at lest twice. It is > probably easier for me to replace the entire filter and fiddle with > the old one at my leisure. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > When I was having filter issues where it wasn't maintaining > suction, ML > > suggested I soak the impellers in vinegar to remove any deposits > and that if > > that didn't fix the problem, to just replace the impeller. I did > that and > > soaking it helped for a while, but it went back to losing suction, > so I just > > replaced them and haven't had a problem in about 2 years. > Depending on the > > hardness of your water, I am guessing they have a 2-4 year lifespan > before > > having to be replaced. Maybe regular soaking in vinegar might > improve that. > > I definitely wouldn't use soap or grease as that would contaminate > the water > > in the tank. The impeller pushes all of the water that goes > through the > > filter so it comes in contact with it directly. Anything that is > on the > > impeller would thus go right into the water. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@ > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on > a > > Marineland/ Peng... > > > > > > > > > > Hi Sam, > > > > I too have some filters as you describe with the twist to remove > motor, but > > in this case the Marineland Hang on Back the motor and impeller can > only be > > accessed from the top. As far as soap goes I would not advise that. > I know > > you > > are an experienced aquarist but it is something that does not need > to be > > done. Regular tap water or vinegar if you need something besides > water. Soap > > is > > just too risky to introduce to an aquarium. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > In a message dated 7/24/2008 10:12:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > skywavebe@sbcglobal <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net> .net writes: > > > > Hi Dora, > > I don't have either of these filters but I have had a number or > rear > > tank hang on or > > some such filters. One of the units I have has the impeller drive > in a > > plastic black > > box type structure that can be turned 90 degrees and taken off the > > filter tank. > > This uses a n O ring to seal from leakage. With this off you can do > > maintenance > > as needed. > > In other designs the impeller is pulled out by the blades as it is > just > > sitting in there by > > magnetic attraction. You clean the impeller with a tooth brush and > some > > dish soap. > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up > for > > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > > (http://www.fanhouse > > <http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020> > > .com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28826	From: Maria Jung	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: no profit group looking for volunteers.

Dear Jack, You have an ambitious project! And it sounds like it will be an incredible aquarium. I have a recommendation for someone you may want to talk to. Dr. Sanjay Joshi is a professor of Industrial and Manufacturing Engineering at Penn State University, where he also co-manages their 500-gallon reef aquarium. I had an opportunity to attend a talk at a reef conference in 2007. He outlined and showed slides of designing and installing several large aquarium applications. He may be able to give you some direction for your project. You can find his contact information here: http://www.personal.psu.edu/sbj4/ He may be able to assist and/or help you with contacts in the aquarium world as well as the manufacturing world. Good luck on your aquarium! Clarice Brough Animal-World <http://animal-world.com/> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Karen Briand <karen_briand@...> wrote: > > > Thank you so much for your interest and valuble infor that you have > contributed.. any help is good help and I truely appreciate it.. Sorry it > has taken me so long to return your email; I have recently had a few family > issues that needed my attention and haven't been on line. > thank you again and I am looking forward to corrisponding with me.. > Karen > > --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Jack Collora <jackcollora@...<jackcollora%40yahoo.com>> > wrote: > > From: Jack Collora <jackcollora@... <jackcollora%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] no profit group looking for volunteers. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Received: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 11:22 AM > > sounds cool i dont have much personal experiance (to my greatest dislike) > but their was a guy who did it before with an only 50k in his back yard. go > to monster fish tanks.com. ive been studying architeccture of tanks and > you would need a formula for the glass with. theirs probly a simple formula > that slips my mi d. anothjer thing is the need for a silicon strong enough > to hold it. another simple formula but if your not confident with your own > calculations you can give it to a profesional one and have him check it > over.. after that is the real fun part making it actually viewablue. now for > that you can do several things. you could make the tanks center around the > center make a tunnel gooing rite through. or the american way of seeing only > through one wall. if you relly w ant the kind of help i think you > want then an architect.(or the monster fish tank guy) . if you want > stocking ideas im still not sure but look on liveaquari.com they ahve a > monster fish section it has 5 fish that are gient :) (plz escuse the > spelling my computers mesing up and blockign my sight.) > hope you have fun with this project. > --- On Sat, 7/5/08, sharden47@aol. com <sharden47@aol. com> wrote: > From: sharden47@aol. com <sharden47@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] non profit group looking for volunteers. > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 7:12 PM > > Send me more info. This sounds like fun. Red Oak > > In a message dated 7/4/2008 9:58:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > karen_briand@ yahoo.ca writes: > > Hello, This is my first post since i have joined this group, but I have > > been a memeber for a while now. you all seem very educated at taking > > care of aquatic animals of all sizes. > > I have started a non profit charitale group by the name of : the > > Maritime Aquatic Institute of the Atlantic Association, Our mandate is > > to create a proposal to build a 100,000+ Gallon Aquarium on the site > > formally known as Shannon Park. I have alot of information reguarding > > this but not much direction, I am looking for volunteers that can give > > me any input and people who are willing to take this journey with me > > and my other associates,i thought that one of the first places I would > > try would be with people who simply love aquatic animals and who would > > like to see different spiecies be preserved. If this fits you please > > contact me, > > Karen Briand at > > _The_MAI_of_ the_The_MAI_ oThe_MAI_ _ (mailto:The_ MAI_of_the_ Atlantic@ > yahoo.ca) > > Thank you all in advance. > > Karen > > .. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > __________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your > favourite sites. Download it now at > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Humans, the only animals with ego... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28827	From: Maria Jung	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: no profit group looking for volunteers.

Ooops... this message should have been addressed to you Karen!. Sorry Jack, I now realise that like me you were posting a response. Please excuse my error. Thanks! Clarice Brough On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 5:16 AM, Maria Jung <mariajungle@...> wrote: > Dear Jack, > > You have an ambitious project! And it sounds like it will be an incredible > aquarium. > > I have a recommendation for someone you may want to talk to. Dr. Sanjay > Joshi is a professor of Industrial and Manufacturing Engineering at Penn > State University, where he also co-manages their 500-gallon reef aquarium. I > had an opportunity to attend a talk at a reef conference in 2007. He > outlined and showed slides of designing and installing several large > aquarium applications. He may be able to give you some direction for your > project. You can find his contact information here: > http://www.personal.psu.edu/sbj4/ > > He may be able to assist and/or help you with contacts in the aquarium > world as well as the manufacturing world. > > Good luck on your aquarium! > Clarice Brough > Animal-World <http://animal-world.com/> > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Karen Briand <karen_briand@...> > wrote: > >> >> >> Thank you so much for your interest and valuble infor that you have >> contributed.. any help is good help and I truely appreciate it.. Sorry it >> has taken me so long to return your email; I have recently had a few family >> issues that needed my attention and haven't been on line. >> thank you again and I am looking forward to corrisponding with me.. >> Karen >> >> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Jack Collora <jackcollora@...<jackcollora%40yahoo.com>> >> wrote: >> >> From: Jack Collora <jackcollora@... <jackcollora%40yahoo.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] no profit group looking for volunteers. >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Received: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 11:22 AM >> >> sounds cool i dont have much personal experiance (to my greatest dislike) >> but their was a guy who did it before with an only 50k in his back yard. >> go to monster fish tanks.com. ive been studying architeccture of tanks >> and you would need a formula for the glass with. theirs probly a simple >> formula that slips my mi d. anothjer thing is the need for a silicon strong >> enough to hold it. another simple formula but if your not confident with >> your own calculations you can give it to a profesional one and have him >> check it over.. after that is the real fun part making it actually >> viewablue. now for that you can do several things. you could make the tanks >> center around the center make a tunnel gooing rite through. or the american >> way of seeing only through one wall. if you relly w ant the kind of help i >> think you >> want then an architect.(or the monster fish tank guy) . if you want >> stocking ideas im still not sure but look on liveaquari.com they ahve a >> monster fish section it has 5 fish that are gient :) (plz escuse the >> spelling my computers mesing up and blockign my sight.) >> hope you have fun with this project. >> --- On Sat, 7/5/08, sharden47@aol. com <sharden47@aol. com> wrote: >> From: sharden47@aol. com <sharden47@aol. com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] non profit group looking for volunteers. >> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >> Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 7:12 PM >> >> Send me more info. This sounds like fun. Red Oak >> >> In a message dated 7/4/2008 9:58:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >> >> karen_briand@ yahoo.ca writes: >> >> Hello, This is my first post since i have joined this group, but I have >> >> been a memeber for a while now. you all seem very educated at taking >> >> care of aquatic animals of all sizes. >> >> I have started a non profit charitale group by the name of : the >> >> Maritime Aquatic Institute of the Atlantic Association, Our mandate is >> >> to create a proposal to build a 100,000+ Gallon Aquarium on the site >> >> formally known as Shannon Park. I have alot of information reguarding >> >> this but not much direction, I am looking for volunteers that can give >> >> me any input and people who are willing to take this journey with me >> >> and my other associates,i thought that one of the first places I would >> >> try would be with people who simply love aquatic animals and who would >> >> like to see different spiecies be preserved. If this fits you please >> >> contact me, >> >> Karen Briand at >> >> _The_MAI_of_ the_The_MAI_ oThe_MAI_ _ (mailto:The_ MAI_of_the_ Atlantic@ >> yahoo.ca) >> >> Thank you all in advance. >> >> Karen >> >> .. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your >> favourite sites. Download it now at >> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > -- > Humans, the only animals with ego... > -- Humans, the only animals with ego... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28828	From: Maria Jung	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: To Loach or not to Loach

Loaches are cool, and you are asking good questions before getting any. There are quite a few different types and they vary widely in both size aggression. Each type has its own care requirements too. Here's a couple of sites with good information on many loaches. There is Loaches Online<http://www.loaches.com/>that is an advanced hobbyist group with lots of good info on many species, and there is Freshwater Fishes of the World<http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/fresh.htm> at Animal-World that has a large number of species of loaches and hillstream loaches. Hope this helps you make a decision for your tank. Good luck! On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:07 AM, vivian bradish <viv32117@...> wrote: > I really would like to get 3-4 clown loaches. I have a 40 gallon tank > with 4 corey's , 3 serpaes, and 6 assorted platys. I know loaches can > grow quite large and do forsee myself getting a larger tank in the > future. > I just do not want to have an unsatisfactory living space for them. > If not a clown loach what other type of loach would be ok for my tank? > > > -- Humans, the only animals with ego... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28829	From: Maria Jung	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-orb aquariums

Hi Susie, I have seen the BioOrb at trade shows and they are attractive.They are very cute!... And they are expensive because of their shape and being a specialty product made from acrylic. All acrylic aquariums are quite a bit more pricey than glass. As far as an aquarium, they are fairly small, having an 8 gallon capacity. That is a little smaller than the standard 10 gallon starter sized aquarium. This size would be good for a few tropical fish that don't grow too large (guppies, neons, danios, and such), and don't put too much of a waste load on the filter. It has the basic 3 types of filtration; chemical, mechanical, and biological. However there are some drawbacks to this particular tank. Because of its shape, there will be a very small surface area which means less oxygen in the water (unless you only fill the tank up half way). This will reduce the biological filter and and make it hard to sustain oxygen hog fish, like goldfish. The filtration is minimal compared to a standard 10 gallon. What I mean by that is there is that though there is an undergravel filter for bacteria growth, but it also has a very small area. If you were to use an undergravel filter in a 10 gallon, it would have much more surface area for and be much more affective. The BioOrb has a filter cartridge that is comparable, or slightly smaller, to what you would have with a hang-on filter used on a 10 gallon. This cartridge gives you your mechanical filter (catches debris) and it gives you some chemical filtration (has carbon on the pad which removes discoloration and a few toxins from the water, also will remove any medications). Though the literature states 'easy to maintain', they are basically talking about replacing this filter meda. They are not talking about vacuuming the gravel to remove debris, or removing algae that may build up on the sides or on the ornaments. There are some pros and cons to it being acrylic. Acrylic gives you a clearer visibility than glass (no blue coloration) and it has a greater insulating capacity (so less temperature fluctuation). AND it is much lighter! On the other side, it will scratch really easily. So you have to be careful what rubs up against it, both inside and outsite. You can get scratch removal kits, but removing scratches takes time and a lot of 'elbow grease' - effort. So basically it's an aesthetic decision! If you want it for its very attractive appearance, just put in small fish (not goldfish) and be careful when cleaning it! Hope this helps! It is a really cute tank! On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:31 PM, RannieSue <sharden47@...> wrote: > Can anyone give me info on bio-orb aquariums? I've been looking at them > for quite sometime. But they are expensive. I found them at TROPICAL > FISH STORE.COM <http://store.com/>. They seem very self-sistaning. Susie > > > -- Humans, the only animals with ego... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28830	From: Maria Jung	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: How do I care for this seahorse?

The most important aspect of keeping seahorses is in feeding them good quality food, and lots of it. Live foods are much better for them than frozen, as there are more nutrients and because they hunt by sight. It can take a long time to train a seahorse to eat dead food. They are slow feeders, so won't be able to compete for food in a tank with active and more aggressive fish. Live brine shrimp is poor quality food for seahorses unless it has been enriched. Enriching brine shrimp is a rather long process, and includes feeding the brine shrimp algaes along with vitamins and minerals for. Better live foods are mysis and river shrimp, and another feeder shrimp you can sometimes get is called the chameleon shrimp. (Or if you live by the ocean, small crustateans like rockhoppers and side swimmers work well!) An adult seahorse will consume 30 - 50 mysis shrimp a day. This is because they have a short intestinal track so much of the food is passed through undigested. They can eat foods that are bigger than there snout, as their snout will expand some. Good luck with your new pets! On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Cheryl <saltwatergirly@...> wrote: > I just got given a small seahorse. it's about 2 inches long, if even. > he's in my tank and doing fine. what do I do with him? like what does > he eat, how do I feed him. he does est frozen brine shrimp right? > > > -- Humans, the only animals with ego... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28831	From: Maria Jung	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?

What you describe could be attributed to an intestinal protazoan disease; the darkening coloration and the swimming pattern. As Lenny says, it would be a good idea to quarantine this fish, protozoan diseases are highly infectious. A treatment (which I believe can be safely used in conjunction with the Melafix) is to use a copper medication. Personally I like Aquarisol. This is another less invasive treatment and will not harm your other fish or plants, though it will kill snails and other invertebrates. (A protozoan intensive medication would be metronidazole, with about a 1% addition to the food and about 12 mg per liter added to the water. But I cannot say for sure that this is what your fish is dealing with.) Good luck! On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:40 AM, giuseppesalvato <giuseppesalvato@...> wrote: > I have a Pristella Maxillaris in distress showing a dark area in the > intestins at the bladder level. I always noticed a small dark area in > the same place in that fish, but now the dark area is bigger and the > fish tends to hide in a cave during the day, swimming in circles almost > horizontally. The Pristella doesn't eat almost anything at this point. > When I turn the lights off it gets out of the cave and swims with the > other fish. > Is there any medicine you would recommend? > > Thanks, > Giuseppe > > > -- Humans, the only animals with ego... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28832	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...

Check out http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/Documents/penguin_manual_100.150. 200.350.pdf that is a link to the pdf of the manual. If you look at the blow up of the filter, you will see items 3 and 4 3 is the impeller housing. It just lifts out of the filter, freeing up #4 the impeller. The impeller housing should easily come out of the filter casing with no problems. Once that is removed, then the impeller is free. It is held in place by the magnetic end of the impeller and the magnets in the motor that drive it. It should easily lift out once the housing is removed. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... Turning unit upside down and banging it on desk didn't remove the impeller either, if it's only held in by magnetic attraction. To be sure, I wonder if you're supposed to take the motor unit apart, but I have no instructions saying so. Box itself says not to open or submerge it. Did someone actually suggest trying to lubricate it with soap solution? LOL! Not I want to soap my fish! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... Hi Sam, I too have some filters as you describe with the twist to remove motor, but in this case the Marineland Hang on Back the motor and impeller can only be accessed from the top. As far as soap goes I would not advise that. I know you are an experienced aquarist but it is something that does not need to be done. Regular tap water or vinegar if you need something besides water. Soap is just too risky to introduce to an aquarium. -Mike In a message dated 7/24/2008 10:12:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, skywavebe@sbcglobal <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net> .net writes: Hi Dora, I don't have either of these filters but I have had a number or rear tank hang on or some such filters. One of the units I have has the impeller drive in a plastic black box type structure that can be turned 90 degrees and taken off the filter tank. This uses a n O ring to seal from leakage. With this off you can do maintenance as needed. In other designs the impeller is pulled out by the blades as it is just sitting in there by magnetic attraction. You clean the impeller with a tooth brush and some dish soap. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28833	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?

Hi Clarice, Would you please explain your rationale for using Melafix and/or Aquarisol as treatment(s) for an internal infection when neither one is absorpable internally. Thank you, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Jung" <mariajungle@...> wrote: > > What you describe could be attributed to an intestinal protazoan disease; > the darkening coloration and the swimming pattern. As Lenny says, it would > be a good idea to quarantine this fish, protozoan diseases are highly > infectious. A treatment (which I believe can be safely used in conjunction > with the Melafix) is to use a copper medication. Personally I like > Aquarisol. This is another less invasive treatment and will not harm your > other fish or plants, though it will kill snails and other invertebrates. > > (A protozoan intensive medication would be metronidazole, with about a 1% > addition to the food and about 12 mg per liter added to the water. But I > cannot say for sure that this is what your fish is dealing with.) > > Good luck! > > > > On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:40 AM, giuseppesalvato <giuseppesalvato@...> > wrote: > > > I have a Pristella Maxillaris in distress showing a dark area in the > > intestins at the bladder level. I always noticed a small dark area in > > the same place in that fish, but now the dark area is bigger and the > > fish tends to hide in a cave during the day, swimming in circles almost > > horizontally. The Pristella doesn't eat almost anything at this point. > > When I turn the lights off it gets out of the cave and swims with the > > other fish. > > Is there any medicine you would recommend? > > > > Thanks, > > Giuseppe > > > > > > > > > > -- > Humans, the only animals with ego... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28834	From: Kelley Lee	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Use your head!

To the person who posted use your head. your cruel!!! Maybe this person is overly cautious and was worried they would break their filter!! It was wrong for you to ASSume they knew. If you were so bothered by their question maybe YOU are in the wrong group and need to use YOUR head. Realize this is a group to ask and share information. NO PUT DOWNS> YOU should have used your head and backed down if you weren't truly wanting to help. This person was just asking for advice- and still unsure if they were doing the right. Just thought you should know. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28835	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head!

Kelly. The name is Mike. No, not cruel. Trying to break through and get her to follow instructions. This is not my first conversation with her. We and others have spent many, many hours typing information and instructions to her only to have her repeat the same question over and over. It was not wrong for me to assume and if you want to call me an ASS or worse do it. Don't put it in the middle of a word. I am in the right group and know what I am doing. I understand I am here to share information and help and that is why I volunteered to assist and become a Moderator of the group. If you think me wrong please peruse the archives of this group and look for postings by the parties involved in past discussions. You will find much bandwidth and time has been wasted repeating ourselves with fruitless attempts to help. Thanks for your message. -Mike To the person who posted use your head. your cruel!!! Maybe this person is overly cautious and was worried they would break their filter!! It was wrong for you to ASSume they knew. If you were so bothered by their question maybe YOU are in the wrong group and need to use YOUR head. Realize this is a group to ask and share information. NO PUT DOWNS> YOU should have used your head and backed down if you weren't truly wanting to help. This person was just asking for advice- and still unsure if they were doing the right. Just thought you should know. -----Original Message----- From: Kelley Lee <kid_col lector_06@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:26 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Use your head! To the person who posted use your head. your cruel!!! Maybe this person is overly cautious and was worried they would break their filter!! It was wrong for you to ASSume they knew. If you were so bothered by their question maybe YOU are in the wrong group and need to use YOUR head. Realize this is a group to ask and share information. NO PUT DOWNS> YOU should have used your head and backed down if you weren't truly wanting to help. This person was just asking for advice- and still unsure if they were doing the right. Just thought you should know. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28836	From: Jerry Lynch	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish? I made an error in a previous post

When I was able to open the link to the pictures I see those fish do not appear to be Gambusia. Gambusia have rounded tails like wild guppies. The fish in those pictures have forked tails and appear to be some kind of minnow. They are probably native fish. Gambusia have probably been introduced often by aquarists but they are more commonly used by governmental agencies in misguided attempts to control mosquitoes. They crowd out the existing fish and often increase mosquito populations rather than decreasing them. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Local fish store near me keeps a tank full of feeder fish. Now, my housemate thinks my tetras and danios are feeder fish, like I somehow got tricked. I look it up, actually feeder fish are small and undesirable specimens of ordinary tropical fish and goldfish. > > What kind of fish are teh feeder fish? I ask. ""Oh, those are gambusia"" I get told. LOL. They could've taken a net down to the local creek and filled their tank in a minute or two. > > I understand that actually gambusia are an invasive species that came from peoples'aquariums. Why on earth anyone'd want them in their aquariums. Maybe they were left over feeder fish? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jackcollora > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:52 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? > > > i have just bought these fish in a store in anihime california they > look like the pictures of the fish trying to be identifyed. they are > caled red zebra fish. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" tiggernut24@ wrote: > > > > I think it was here that we discussed this before. > > > > I caught several of the fish that noone could identify from photos > an dmovies and photographed them. > > > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/564179598wxOdVu > > > > There's one small fish that crowded the shallower and quieter water > along the entire creek, and one bigger fish that tended to speed along > in the deeper center of the creek. > > > > There are both movies and still shots, especially of the smaller > fish. The larger one ought to be easy to identify. > > > > What are they? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28837	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...

Yup. Thanks. I have it now. I was missing the detail where it's the housing that I'm supposed to pull out and the impeller is in the other end. :) I also get an answer back from teh company, acknowledging that they forgot to explain how to do that, and explaining how to do that Thanks, y''all! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Roberts To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 11:24 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... Check out http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/Documents/penguin_manual_100.150. 200.350.pdf that is a link to the pdf of the manual. If you look at the blow up of the filter, you will see items 3 and 4 3 is the impeller housing. It just lifts out of the filter, freeing up #4.the impeller. The impeller housing should easily come out of the filter casing with no problems. Once that is removed, then the impeller is free. It is held in place by the magnetic end of the impeller and the magnets in the motor that drive it. It should easily lift out once the housing is removed. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... Turning unit upside down and banging it on desk didn't remove the impeller either, if it's only held in by magnetic attraction. To be sure, I wonder if you're supposed to take the motor unit apart, but I have no instructions saying so. Box itself says not to open or submerge it. Did someone actually suggest trying to lubricate it with soap solution? LOL! Not I want to soap my fish! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... Hi Sam, I too have some filters as you describe with the twist to remove motor, but in this case the Marineland Hang on Back the motor and impeller can only be accessed from the top. As far as soap goes I would not advise that. I know you are an experienced aquarist but it is something that does not need to be done. Regular tap water or vinegar if you need something besides water. Soap is just too risky to introduce to an aquarium. -Mike In a message dated 7/24/2008 10:12:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, skywavebe@sbcglobal <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net> .net writes: Hi Dora, I don't have either of these filters but I have had a number or rear tank hang on or some such filters. One of the units I have has the impeller drive in a plastic black box type structure that can be turned 90 degrees and taken off the filter tank. This uses a n O ring to seal from leakage. With this off you can do maintenance as needed. In other designs the impeller is pulled out by the blades as it is just sitting in there by magnetic attraction. You clean the impeller with a tooth brush and some dish soap. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28838	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng...

Well, it looks like it has enough minute scratches - but hard to see hwo that would interfere with it running. It had stopped because it was clogged with hair. It looked like I must have leaned over the aquarium the day I got my hair cut. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: junglejingles To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 6:48 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... Hi guys, just thought I'd share my 2 cents worth. Good info on using vinegar, I'll have to try that. I'm currently wrestling with a sluggish turbo pump used with our skimmer. Here's another thought on the impeller stuff... Sometimes impeller damage is difficult to see. The magnetic base can be damaged by minute scratches on it from debris particles that come in contact with it while it is running. This can cause it to loose suction, the only thing you can do in this case is replace it. Cheers! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> wrote: > > Thanks Eric for this answer. I too am experiencing low suction with > my Penguin and have cleaned the impeller at lest twice. It is > probably easier for me to replace the entire filter and fiddle with > the old one at my leisure. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > When I was having filter issues where it wasn't maintaining > suction, ML > > suggested I soak the impellers in vinegar to remove any deposits > and that if > > that didn't fix the problem, to just replace the impeller. I did > that and > > soaking it helped for a while, but it went back to losing suction, > so I just > > replaced them and haven't had a problem in about 2 years. > Depending on the > > hardness of your water, I am guessing they have a 2-4 year lifespan > before > > having to be replaced. Maybe regular soaking in vinegar might > improve that. > > I definitely wouldn't use soap or grease as that would contaminate > the water > > in the tank. The impeller pushes all of the water that goes > through the > > filter so it comes in contact with it directly. Anything that is > on the > > impeller would thus go right into the water. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@ > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on > a > > Marineland/ Peng... > > > > > > > > > > Hi Sam, > > > > I too have some filters as you describe with the twist to remove > motor, but > > in this case the Marineland Hang on Back the motor and impeller can > only be > > accessed from the top. As far as soap goes I would not advise that. > I know > > you > > are an experienced aquarist but it is something that does not need > to be > > done. Regular tap water or vinegar if you need something besides > water. Soap > > is > > just too risky to introduce to an aquarium. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > In a message dated 7/24/2008 10:12:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > skywavebe@sbcglobal <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net> .net writes: > > > > Hi Dora, > > I don't have either of these filters but I have had a number or > rear > > tank hang on or > > some such filters. One of the units I have has the impeller drive > in a > > plastic black > > box type structure that can be turned 90 degrees and taken off the > > filter tank. > > This uses a n O ring to seal from leakage. With this off you can do > > maintenance > > as needed. > > In other designs the impeller is pulled out by the blades as it is > just > > sitting in there by > > magnetic attraction. You clean the impeller with a tooth brush and > some > > dish soap. > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up > for > > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > > (http://www.fanhouse > > <http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020> > > .com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28839	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish? I made an error in a previous post

I've heard back from several people at UT. The big ones are blacktailed shiners, and the little ones are western mosquitofish (gambusia) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Lynch To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 2:52 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? I made an error in a previous post When I was able to open the link to the pictures I see those fish do not appear to be Gambusia. Gambusia have rounded tails like wild guppies. The fish in those pictures have forked tails and appear to be some kind of minnow. They are probably native fish. Gambusia have probably been introduced often by aquarists but they are more commonly used by governmental agencies in misguided attempts to control mosquitoes. They crowd out the existing fish and often increase mosquito populations rather than decreasing them. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Local fish store near me keeps a tank full of feeder fish. Now, my housemate thinks my tetras and danios are feeder fish, like I somehow got tricked. I look it up, actually feeder fish are small and undesirable specimens of ordinary tropical fish and goldfish. > > What kind of fish are teh feeder fish? I ask. ""Oh, those are gambusia"" I get told. LOL. They could've taken a net down to the local creek and filled their tank in a minute or two. > > I understand that actually gambusia are an invasive species that came from peoples'aquariums. Why on earth anyone'd want them in their aquariums. Maybe they were left over feeder fish? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jackcollora > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:52 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? > > > i have just bought these fish in a store in anihime california they > look like the pictures of the fish trying to be identifyed. they are > caled red zebra fish. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" tiggernut24@ wrote: > > > > I think it was here that we discussed this before. > > > > I caught several of the fish that noone could identify from photos > an dmovies and photographed them. > > > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/564179598wxOdVu > > > > There's one small fish that crowded the shallower and quieter water > along the entire creek, and one bigger fish that tended to speed along > in the deeper center of the creek. > > > > There are both movies and still shots, especially of the smaller > fish. The larger one ought to be easy to identify. > > > > What are they? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28840	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head!

They're only mad at me for being a Democrat, Kelley. :) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelley Lee To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 12:26 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Use your head! To the person who posted use your head. your cruel!!! Maybe this person is overly cautious and was worried they would break their filter!! It was wrong for you to ASSume they knew. If you were so bothered by their question maybe YOU are in the wrong group and need to use YOUR head. Realize this is a group to ask and share information. NO PUT DOWNS> YOU should have used your head and backed down if you weren't truly wanting to help. This person was just asking for advice- and still unsure if they were doing the right. Just thought you should know. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28841	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head!

Well, your most recent set of instructions were also as clear as mud, Deener. Hard to follow instructions that aren't instructive. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Use your head! Kelly. The name is Mike. No, not cruel. Trying to break through and get her to follow instructions. This is not my first conversation with her. We and others have spent many, many hours typing information and instructions to her only to have her repeat the same question over and over. It was not wrong for me to assume and if you want to call me an ASS or worse do it. Don't put it in the middle of a word. I am in the right group and know what I am doing. I understand I am here to share information and help and that is why I volunteered to assist and become a Moderator of the group. If you think me wrong please peruse the archives of this group and look for postings by the parties involved in past discussions. You will find much bandwidth and time has been wasted repeating ourselves with fruitless attempts to help. Thanks for your message. -Mike To the person who posted use your head. your cruel!!! Maybe this person is overly cautious and was worried they would break their filter!! It was wrong for you to ASSume they knew. If you were so bothered by their question maybe YOU are in the wrong group and need to use YOUR head. Realize this is a group to ask and share information. NO PUT DOWNS> YOU should have used your head and backed down if you weren't truly wanting to help. This person was just asking for advice- and still unsure if they were doing the right. Just thought you should know. -----Original Message----- From: Kelley Lee <kid_col lector_06@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:26 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Use your head! To the person who posted use your head. your cruel!!! Maybe this person is overly cautious and was worried they would break their filter!! It was wrong for you to ASSume they knew. If you were so bothered by their question maybe YOU are in the wrong group and need to use YOUR head. Realize this is a group to ask and share information. NO PUT DOWNS> YOU should have used your head and backed down if you weren't truly wanting to help. This person was just asking for advice- and still unsure if they were doing the right. Just thought you should know. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28842	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head!

Dora, As usual feel free to call me Mike. Nope, instructions were fine by myself and others. Problem on your end as usual. I even included photos. -Mike In a message dated 7/25/2008 3:44:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Well, your most recent set of instructions were also as clear as mud, Deener. Hard to follow instructions that aren't instructive. Yours, Dora Smith **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28843	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head! <] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Mar

I see your instructions now. Just one problem, Deener. Your instructions are wrong. You do not reach in and pull out the impeller. You reach in and pull out the housing. Impeller is stuck at the other end, and must be pulled off the other end of hte housing after it is removed. Even if I had your fingers - those of an alien a la Roswell - I could not possibly reach in and pull out hte impeller. Of course, now, I realize taht anyone who thinks that Democrats are Commies may think in different terms than teh rest of us. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 9:38 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Use your head! <] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... OK! One more time! Put your hand in the filter and use your finger tips to remove the impeller! I HAVE POSTED THAT MANY TIMES. It will not jump out of the filter for you or fall out when you banged it on your desk. Magnets do work! If you cannot remove it by manually putting your fingers on it and pulling or using a pair of needle nose pliers and gently pulling on it then yes, it is truly stuck like I have not seen one stuck before. Until we hear back from you stating you have done that then you are wasting our time AGAIN! In a message dated 7/24/2008 7:31:37 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Turning unit upside down and banging it on desk didn't remove the impeller either, if it's only held in by magnetic attraction. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28844	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head! <] How do I clean or change the impeller on ...

I see we are going to continue wasting time and bandwidth with you Dora. If you back to one of my earliest posts to you I included the web page with the Penguin 170 page in ehich you replied it appeared the same as yours. In that description I asked you to remove item # 4 which was the housing. So in fact I did point that out, but I only mentioned it as #4 and not impeller housing. Additonally. Do not misquote me. Go back and read the previous emails involving politics. I did NOT take a shot at Democrats or Republicans. I did not call you a Democrat and for the record I am NOT a Republican. I have voted Independent 6 out of 7 of the last General Elections. Alien fingers? cute. Merely those of a man standing 6 foot 6. Quite average hands. I know people quite petite that can get their agile hands into the well of the filter and remove the impeller. I did mention gently using a pair of needle nose pliers to remove the impeller. -Mike In a message dated 7/25/2008 3:46:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Just one problem, Deener. Your instructions are wrong. You do not reach in and pull out the impeller. You reach in and pull out the housing. Impeller is stuck at the other end, and must be pulled off the other end of hte housing after it is removed. Even if I had your fingers - those of an alien a la Roswell - I could not possibly reach in and pull out hte impeller. Of course, now, I realize taht anyone who thinks that Democrats are Commies may think in different terms than teh rest of us. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28845	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head!

Hi Kelley, are you new to the group? I can see how that one message taken on it's own could give you a bad impression. But Mike has posted many, many (many) helpful posts for Dora and others. And Dora has a long history of a different kind of posts. So you might want to review the archives before you do any put downs of your own, LOL! Welcome to our colorful world!! I keep African cichlids, what fish do you keep? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelley Lee Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 1:26 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Use your head! To the person who posted use your head. your cruel!!! Maybe this person is overly cautious and was worried they would break their filter!! It was wrong for you to ASSume they knew. If you were so bothered by their question maybe YOU are in the wrong group and need to use YOUR head. Realize this is a group to ask and share information. NO PUT DOWNS> YOU should have used your head and backed down if you weren't truly wanting to help. This person was just asking for advice- and still unsure if they were doing the right. Just thought you should know. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Messages <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/28834;_ylc=X3oDMTM2cGlnOD ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzI4OD M0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIxNzAxNDAwNAR0cGNJZAMyODgzNA--> in this topic (1) <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaW84ZHFvBF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzI4ODM0BHNlYwN mdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTIxNzAxNDAwNA--?act=reply&messageNum=28834> Reply (via web post) | Start <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOGNscDliBF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGM Ec3RpbWUDMTIxNzAxNDAwNA--> a new topic Messages <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJldHRmbDRvBF9 TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21 zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTIxNzAxNDAwNA--> | Files <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYXU0MXNoBF9TAz k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbG VzBHN0aW1lAzEyMTcwMTQwMDQ-> | Photos <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbzFqa3Y2BF9TA zk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Bob 3QEc3RpbWUDMTIxNzAxNDAwNA--> | Links <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYXY2ZWY4BF9TAz k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbm tzBHN0aW1lAzEyMTcwMTQwMDQ-> | Database <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJjOTVma2J2BF9 TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2R iBHN0aW1lAzEyMTcwMTQwMDQ-> | Polls <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcWYyZzh0BF9TAz k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbG xzBHN0aW1lAzEyMTcwMTQwMDQ-> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28846	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/25/2008
Subject: Re: What are these wild fish?

Well, that explains how they can live by the bridge over the creek on Meadowheath! I had seriously wondered how anything could live in that gook. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Lynch To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 1:14 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What are these wild fish? Gambusia . They are remarkably hardy, surviving in waters of very low oxygen saturations, high salinities (including twice that of seawater), and high temperatures; they can even survive in waters up to 42 ¡ÆC for short periods.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28847	From: vivian bradish	Date: 7/26/2008
Subject: How long before the babies grow

I have baby platys in a fry hatching net. They were born 5 weeks ago. I have not released them because I do not have a lot of hiding places for them i.e. vegetation. They are growing oh so slowly but I feel they are too small to release. They are smaller than my tiny male endlers and I do not want a massacre. How long does it take the little boogers to grow!?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28848	From: pam andress	Date: 7/26/2008
Subject: Re: How long before the babies grow

The smaller their "home" the slower they will grow. Since they are in a small space, it will take a while. If you can set up a tank just to frow out your fry, it would help. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: viv32117@...: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:44:00 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] How long before the babies grow I have baby platys in a fry hatching net. They were born 5 weeks ago. I have not released them because I do not have a lot of hiding places for them i.e. vegetation. They are growing oh so slowly but I feel they are too small to release. They are smaller than my tiny male endlers and I do not want a massacre. How long does it take the little boogers to grow!? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28849	From: Kelley Lee	Date: 7/26/2008
Subject: Re: Use your head!

I have been a member for at least 8 mo. I just thought that was a horrible thing to say. I have read many posts some repetitious, and some very informative. I have just never felt that my input was needed as much as it was at that moment. People spend too much time tearing eachother down. I guess if you have tried many times to advise someone, you would either step back and realize you tried your best or refer them elsewhere. I just thought Dora sounded like she was a bit unsure and maybe lacked confidence. She may be best taught "in person" so if someone lived in her area she could learn with confidence. Oh.. Some of the fish I keep are Africans from Lake Tanganyika, and Lake Malawi. I have tons of Texas Cichlids (very good breeders), I have some mouth brooders, convicts, oscars, red point honduras. etc. I also have Goldfish, Koi, Plecos, dwarf plecos, albino corys, zebra danios, gold zebra danios, guppies, apple snails, tiger barbs, and probably a few more. I have a hard time recalling the scientific names :( But I belong to the Michiana Aquarium Society and we have auctions twice a year as well as a fish show. It is an exciting time to see old friends, (many of them who have their own stores) and meet new ones. They always laugh when I come in because I always buy more than I sell!! They are always patient and kind- they never make me feel dumb when I can't properly identify and scientifically name a particular fish. I enjoy my friends and know I can count on them whenever I have a question. I've been able to leave them messages at their aquarium stores. They gladly call me back. I would rather have them ignore me than make me feel stupid. I understand things get frustrating. But lets put our gripes aside. Life's too short. Enough is enough so we need to move on :) - Kelley [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28850	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/26/2008
Subject: Moving Right Along

Which Malawi and Tanganyikans do you have? I have a 125G with Demasoni, Red Zebras, Acei, Yellow Labs and Cynotilapia sp. Hara (a.k.a. Blue Reef, Gallireya Reef or White Tops). Along with them I have Synodontis Lucipinnis and Multipunctatus. I also have a planted 38G with Inkfin Calvus and Lamprogolus Caudopunctatus Kapampa Red Fin. Big snail problem in there, but I'm working on it! At year-end I'm putting the mbuna in a new 75G, moving the Tangs and plants to the 125G and adding Julies, Lelelupi (maybe), Brevis and a big school of Cyprochromis. Probably do a breeding group of Aulonocara Baenschi in the 38G for a while, and later do marine in that tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelley Lee Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 10:33 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Use your head! I have been a member for at least 8 mo. I just thought that was a horrible thing to say. I have read many posts some repetitious, and some very informative. I have just never felt that my input was needed as much as it was at that moment. People spend too much time tearing eachother down. I guess if you have tried many times to advise someone, you would either step back and realize you tried your best or refer them elsewhere. I just thought Dora sounded like she was a bit unsure and maybe lacked confidence. She may be best taught "in person" so if someone lived in her area she could learn with confidence. Oh.. Some of the fish I keep are Africans from Lake Tanganyika, and Lake Malawi. I have tons of Texas Cichlids (very good breeders), I have some mouth brooders, convicts, oscars, red point honduras. etc. I also have Goldfish, Koi, Plecos, dwarf plecos, albino corys, zebra danios, gold zebra danios, guppies, apple snails, tiger barbs, and probably a few more. I have a hard time recalling the scientific names :( But I belong to the Michiana Aquarium Society and we have auctions twice a year as well as a fish show. It is an exciting time to see old friends, (many of them who have their own stores) and meet new ones. They always laugh when I come in because I always buy more than I sell!! They are always patient and kind- they never make me feel dumb when I can't properly identify and scientifically name a particular fish. I enjoy my friends and know I can count on them whenever I have a question. I've been able to leave them messages at their aquarium stores. They gladly call me back. I would rather have them ignore me than make me feel stupid. I understand things get frustrating. But lets put our gripes aside. Life's too short. Enough is enough so we need to move on :) - Kelley [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28851	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/26/2008
Subject: Platy question

I have 5 female platys all together 1 mickey mouse (1 year), 3 yellow double banded (7 months) and one I just call a mutt she is bright yellow red and black (got her a year ago as an adult so guessing no less than two years old). All of them have had fry and the babies ALWAYS look exactly like the female no matter what males they are in with. I have one sunset male, one blue and black male and one 7 month old yellow double banded male. None of the fry has looked like either of the adult males. So my question is do the fry always look like the female. I looked online but couldnt find much that talks about the genes and way the platys look compared to their parents. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28852	From: babsdvs	Date: 7/27/2008
Subject: New impeller

I purchased a new Penguin yesterday and what a difference!! I thought the new impeller was going to suck the plants out of the gravel. After looking at the old one again, I still do not see anything wrong with it, other than a thin coating of slime. The lfs guy said he would look at it and order a new one if need be. I think the slowing down of the biowheel was an indication of the impeller's lack of suction - even though ML and others said a slow biowheel is nothing to be concerned about. Barbara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28853	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/27/2008
Subject: Re: New impeller

Yeah, I know. That new power filter (with the old filtering materials) has just about righted my biological balance. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: babsdvs To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 5:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] New impeller I purchased a new Penguin yesterday and what a difference!! I thought the new impeller was going to suck the plants out of the gravel. After looking at the old one again, I still do not see anything wrong with it, other than a thin coating of slime. The lfs guy said he would look at it and order a new one if need be. I think the slowing down of the biowheel was an indication of the impeller's lack of suction - even though ML and others said a slow biowheel is nothing to be concerned about. Barbara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28854	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/27/2008
Subject: Re: about those impeller instructions

I posted these several days ago, and they bounced with an error message I've never seen before. I didn't realize that our coots who are carryign on about me hadn't simply not cared to read them. Don't know - maybe they ARE teh classical people who can't listen. Hard to see how ""reach in and pull out the impeller"" includes the part about you have to pull out the housing first. But here's what I posted. Thanks again, Matthew! Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 35344 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:54:21 -0000 Yes, vinegar might work, but I'd rather have it out and look at it and maybe change it. I understand that impellers break down all the time. Right now I have no idea what is wrong with it so I can't trust it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Roberts To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... When I was having filter issues where it wasn't maintaining suction, ML suggested I soak the impellers in vinegar to remove any deposits and that if that didn't fix the problem, to just replace the impeller. I did that and soaking it helped for a while, but it went back to losing suction, so I just Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 50740 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:56:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 You're right. The entire housing pulled right out. thanks! It looks like I'm in business! I may see what the problem is - alot of stuff wound around the shaft. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew O' Farrell To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Grab the black plastic #4 houseing with your fingers and pull up the impaller will come with it. Then pull the impeller out of the houseing rinse under water using your fingers to rub off slim. Then get a bottle cleaning brush and clean the hole that the impellar goes into. Put back together the same way. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28855	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/27/2008
Subject: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those impell

Of course Yahoo never ever has any problems. Mail is always delivered in a timely fashion, with no bounces ever. Dora, We approve posts as soon as we see them. When we miss a post needing approval it shows up on the webpage as a pending post. Sticks out like a sore thumb, hard to miss. I find posts in message areas that I never get in my inbox. It happens, it is a part of yahoo. I get bounced messages frequently, several times a day, perhaps because I moderate many groups?  Myself and the other "coots" do not make it a habit of deleting posts from members. We do however spend an exorbitant amount of time banning spammers and interecepting would be spammers from posting here. It would be nice to actually participate and get help here and help those who ask for it without continually having our names dragged through the mud or being called "Coots". Having disagreements and different opinions are great. But your continuing nasty attitude toward people that try and help you is unacceptable to me personally. The other people that moderate have more patience for you than I do, I encourage you to not treat them poorly. You do not have to be here. There are other lists out there where you may feel less persecuted. I recall reading your comments on other lists slamming this one. Perhaps you will feel more at home there?   Again, you do not have to be here. -Mike I posted these several days ago, and they bounced with an error message I've never seen before. I didn't realize that our coots who are carryign on about me hadn't simply not cared to read them. Don't know - maybe they ARE teh classical people who can't listen. Hard to see how ""reach in and pull out the impeller"" includes the part about you have to pull out the housing first. But here's what I posted. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 7:01 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about those impeller instructions I posted these several days ago, and they bounced with an error message I've never seen before. I didn't realize that our coots who are carryign on about me hadn't simply not cared to read them. Don't know - maybe they ARE teh classical people who can't listen. Hard to see how ""reach in and pull out the impeller"" includes the part about you have to pull out the housing first. But here's what I posted. Thanks again, Matthew! Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 35344 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:54:21 -0000 Yes, vinegar might work, but I'd rather have it out and look at it and maybe change it. I understand that impellers break down all the time. Right now I have no idea what is wrong with it so I can't trust it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Roberts To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... When I was having filter issues where it wasn't maintaining suction, ML suggested I soak the impellers in vinegar to remove any deposits and that if that didn't fix the problem, to just replace the impeller. I did that and soaking it helped for a while, but it went back to losing suction, so I just Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 50740 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:56:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 You're right. The entire housing pulled right out. thanks! It looks like I'm in20business! I may see what the problem is - alot of stuff wound around the shaft. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew O' Farrell To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Grab the black plastic #4 houseing with your fingers and pull up the impaller will come with it. Then pull the impeller out of the houseing rinse under water using your fingers to rub off slim. Then get a bottle cleaning brush and clean the hole that the impellar goes into. Put back together the same way. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28856	From: Kristin	Date: 7/27/2008
Subject: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!

Hi all! I'm new to the group. My names Kristin but I often go by Storey (middle name) so if I accidentally sign messages that way don't be surprised! I even confuse myself sometimes. I have several fish tanks- 2 10gal, 20gal and 3gal tank. For some reason I never have any luck with a more aggressive fish tank so I tend to keep to the tropical/passive communities. We had one tank sitting empty for a while and I decided to use it again. I did everything the way I normally do to prep the tank, I even bought the "good" fish water. I've bought water before but I don't always, just depends. We've recently had a ton (about 6) fish & reptile stores open up close by. I've never had any problems with their quality before so I don t think its them. For some reason, this 10 gallon tank is just murky as I've ever seen!! It only has 3 ADF's and 2 mystery snails in it. I don't usually like to purchase a whole tank community at once. I was planning on moving a snail and frog to another tank later. I actually wanted a tank that was a non-fish aquatic tank.... That was my goal. Anyway, basically its been 8 hrs and the water has gone from clear to horribly gross! I'd swear I was staring at a swamp. I've never seen this happen so fast before. Any idea's? I actually put off naming my frogs cause I'm not real positive they're gonna make it... I'm running to the store first thing in the AM! I also have a Beta, I thought about putting him in the tank with the frogs & snail but... I wasn't sure if this was smart. I know Beta's are really fickle with personalities and I've never had him around others. I'm not sure if He'd be aggressive or not. I know some Beta's do fine with ADF's and other fish (non-Beta looking) and other Beta's are too aggressive. On an off topic, I've always wanted clown fish but scared to try them! Little background on me... I'm 27, own my own business- Kreative Storeys.. I have 5 cats, 2 dogs, 2 gerbils, lots of fish.... It keeps growing. We live in Ga on a llama, chicken, horse farm. Strange I know! We don't have kids but have been trying for 5 years, which I think is why we keep rescuing animals... We just have lots of love. My husband is an electrician in the local union. Thanks! I'm so glad to have found this group!! ~Kristin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28857	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/28/2008
Subject: Re: about those impeller instructions

Without a complete copy of the NDR (Non-Delivery Report), it is difficult to determine why the message bounced, and how long it took to bounce it. From the snippet provided, it looks like an internal Yahoo! error, over which no one here has any control. E-mail is an imperfect system. Errors can and do happen all the time. While it works well most of the time, the faith most people have that e-mail will be delivered within seconds is sorely misplaced. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about those impeller instructions I posted these several days ago, and they bounced with an error message I've never seen before. I didn't realize that our coots who are carryign on about me hadn't simply not cared to read them. Don't know - maybe they ARE teh classical people who can't listen. Hard to see how ""reach in and pull out the impeller"" includes the part about you have to pull out the housing first. But here's what I posted. Thanks again, Matthew! Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 35344 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:54:21 -0000 Yes, vinegar might work, but I'd rather have it out and look at it and maybe change it. I understand that impellers break down all the time. Right now I have no idea what is wrong with it so I can't trust it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Roberts To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... When I was having filter issues where it wasn't maintaining suction, ML suggested I soak the impellers in vinegar to remove any deposits and that if that didn't fix the problem, to just replace the impeller. I did that and soaking it helped for a while, but it went back to losing suction, so I just Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 50740 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:56:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 You're right. The entire housing pulled right out. thanks! It looks like I'm in business! I may see what the problem is - alot of stuff wound around the shaft. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew O' Farrell To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Grab the black plastic #4 houseing with your fingers and pull up the impaller will come with it. Then pull the impeller out of the houseing rinse under water using your fingers to rub off slim. Then get a bottle cleaning brush and clean the hole that the impellar goes into. Put back together the same way. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28858	From: joe t	Date: 7/28/2008
Subject: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!

Kristin, Welcome to the group.   Maybe I am misreading.   Are you saying you "buy" water for the aquarium?   So called "good water"?   If you are, could you please explain why?  I am keeping fish for a very long time, and I NEVER actually bought -e.i. paid money for-  water. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28859	From: Kristin	Date: 7/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!

Its just pretreated water, its the same process you would do at home. A lot of private fish-stores do this because beginners come in and either cant get their water right or they don't want to wait for a few days for the water to set up before they add fish. They usually only do this because they feel it keeps the fish "safer" from unexperienced buyers. One guy wanted me to wait two weeks before buying fish. I've never waited more than a few days. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but, never had problems. My mom always bought water because that's her style. Lol, essentially my dad refuses tap water anyway *even to COOK with* so she's always paid for water. I just got it because I got a coupon with a $30 purchase, essentially it was free. The water has ALWAYS kept my moms tank in good balance. I personally usually just treat my tap water but, thought I'd try it. Except for stores like Petco/Petsmart, all of our stores here offer this service. Anywho, water is almost clear today. I got a new filter, I think the other one wasn't doing very well. The water has cleaned up in a few hours. Kristin -------Original Message------- From: joe t Date: 7/28/2008 3:59:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Newbie- sorry if this posts weird! Kristin, Welcome to the group. Maybe I am misreading. Are you saying you "buy" water for the aquarium? So called "good water"? If you are, could you please explain why? I am keeping fish for a very long time, and I NEVER actually bought -e.i. paid money for- water. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28860	From: Kelley Lee	Date: 7/28/2008
Subject: Moving right along. :0)

Hi all! Donna was asking what kinds of fish I keep. I am a terribly forgetful person when it comes to the names of my fish!! So I did my best!! I was not able to name them all but here's the greatest number. Zaire blue cyphotilapia frontosa./Ikola Aqua blue frontosa, a couple brichardi-can't remember specific names./ 4Neolamprologus cylindricus (lake malawi)/grey central am. Amphilophus amarillo. then I have the texas (escondido) cichlids. I can't recall the names of all of them 3 dif kinds of convicts. etc I gave it my best shot- i love the hobby but just forget the names of some of the fish. (it would help if every time I have brought them home from the auctions over the years, I would make id tags. but the kids throw the bags away. Have a great one- Kelley "A True Friend walks in when the rest of the world walks out"Kelley [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28861	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/28/2008
Subject: Re: about those impeller instructions

I think I actually know what caused it. In there somewhere was the news that delivery of the e-mail timed out. It was from my Yahoo e-mail to a Yahoo mailing list. Yahoo has been having trouble with slow delivery. I jsut didn't know that delivery was at times taking days or never happening. I thought everyone knew that and it didn't occur to me that some people woudl think I was mystified by the delivery issue. Surprised and annoyed, but not mystified. It took those e-mails abaout three days to bounce back to me. Why the e-mails bounced wasn't the point; one of them should have ended an argument that failed to end. I thought some fairly obtuse people were jsut being obtuse. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:25 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] about those impeller instructions Without a complete copy of the NDR (Non-Delivery Report), it is difficult to determine why the message bounced, and how long it took to bounce it. From the snippet provided, it looks like an internal Yahoo! error, over which no one here has any control. E-mail is an imperfect system. Errors can and do happen all the time. While it works well most of the time, the faith most people have that e-mail will be delivered within seconds is sorely misplaced. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about those impeller instructions I posted these several days ago, and they bounced with an error message I've never seen before. I didn't realize that our coots who are carryign on about me hadn't simply not cared to read them. Don't know - maybe they ARE teh classical people who can't listen. Hard to see how ""reach in and pull out the impeller"" includes the part about you have to pull out the housing first. But here's what I posted. Thanks again, Matthew! Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 35344 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:54:21 -0000 Yes, vinegar might work, but I'd rather have it out and look at it and maybe change it. I understand that impellers break down all the time. Right now I have no idea what is wrong with it so I can't trust it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Roberts To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... When I was having filter issues where it wasn't maintaining suction, ML suggested I soak the impellers in vinegar to remove any deposits and that if that didn't fix the problem, to just replace the impeller. I did that and soaking it helped for a while, but it went back to losing suction, so I just Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 50740 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:56:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 You're right. The entire housing pulled right out. thanks! It looks like I'm in business! I may see what the problem is - alot of stuff wound around the shaft. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew O' Farrell To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Grab the black plastic #4 houseing with your fingers and pull up the impaller will come with it. Then pull the impeller out of the houseing rinse under water using your fingers to rub off slim. Then get a bottle cleaning brush and clean the hole that the impellar goes into. Put back together the same way. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28862	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: about those impeller instructions

Yahoo's mail delivery problems have a long history. At least you got an NDR, of sorts, probably because it was entirely within Yahoo's systems. Most people do not. I've seen cases where it has taken up to two weeks for a message to be delivered, when looking at the headers, it is discovered the message has spent its time going from server to server. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about those impeller instructions I think I actually know what caused it. In there somewhere was the news that delivery of the e-mail timed out. It was from my Yahoo e-mail to a Yahoo mailing list. Yahoo has been having trouble with slow delivery. I jsut didn't know that delivery was at times taking days or never happening. I thought everyone knew that and it didn't occur to me that some people woudl think I was mystified by the delivery issue. Surprised and annoyed, but not mystified. It took those e-mails abaout three days to bounce back to me. Why the e-mails bounced wasn't the point; one of them should have ended an argument that failed to end. I thought some fairly obtuse people were jsut being obtuse. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:25 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] about those impeller instructions Without a complete copy of the NDR (Non-Delivery Report), it is difficult to determine why the message bounced, and how long it took to bounce it. From the snippet provided, it looks like an internal Yahoo! error, over which no one here has any control. E-mail is an imperfect system. Errors can and do happen all the time. While it works well most of the time, the faith most people have that e-mail will be delivered within seconds is sorely misplaced. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about those impeller instructions I posted these several days ago, and they bounced with an error message I've never seen before. I didn't realize that our coots who are carryign on about me hadn't simply not cared to read them. Don't know - maybe they ARE teh classical people who can't listen. Hard to see how ""reach in and pull out the impeller"" includes the part about you have to pull out the housing first. But here's what I posted. Thanks again, Matthew! Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 35344 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:54:21 -0000 Yes, vinegar might work, but I'd rather have it out and look at it and maybe change it. I understand that impellers break down all the time. Right now I have no idea what is wrong with it so I can't trust it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Roberts To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... When I was having filter issues where it wasn't maintaining suction, ML suggested I soak the impellers in vinegar to remove any deposits and that if that didn't fix the problem, to just replace the impeller. I did that and soaking it helped for a while, but it went back to losing suction, so I just Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 50740 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:56:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 You're right. The entire housing pulled right out. thanks! It looks like I'm in business! I may see what the problem is - alot of stuff wound around the shaft. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew O' Farrell To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Grab the black plastic #4 houseing with your fingers and pull up the impaller will come with it. Then pull the impeller out of the houseing rinse under water using your fingers to rub off slim. Then get a bottle cleaning brush and clean the hole that the impellar goes into. Put back together the same way. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28863	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those im

Deener, that's enough. You're the one who isn't listening. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those impeller instructions Of course Yahoo never ever has any problems. Mail is always delivered in a timely fashion, with no bounces ever. Dora, We approve posts as soon as we see them. When we miss a post needing approval it shows up on the webpage as a pending post. Sticks out like a sore thumb, hard to miss. I find posts in message areas that I never get in my inbox. It happens, it is a part of yahoo. I get bounced messages frequently, several times a day, perhaps because I moderate many groups? Myself and the other "coots" do not make it a habit of deleting posts from members. We do however spend an exorbitant amount of time banning spammers and interecepting would be spammers from posting here. It would be nice to actually participate and get help here and help those who ask for it without continually having our names dragged through the mud or being called "Coots". Having disagreements and different opinions are great. But your continuing nasty attitude toward people that try and help you is unacceptable to me personally. The other people that moderate have more patience for you than I do, I encourage you to not treat them poorly. You do not have to be here. There are other lists out there where you may feel less persecuted. I recall reading your comments on other lists slamming this one. Perhaps you will feel more at home there? Again, you do not have to be here. -Mike I posted these several days ago, and they bounced with an error message I've never seen before. I didn't realize that our coots who are carryign on about me hadn't simply not cared to read them. Don't know - maybe they ARE teh classical people who can't listen. Hard to see how ""reach in and pull out the impeller"" includes the part about you have to pull out the housing first. But here's what I posted. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 7:01 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about those impeller instructions I posted these several days ago, and they bounced with an error message I've never seen before. I didn't realize that our coots who are carryign on about me hadn't simply not cared to read them. Don't know - maybe they ARE teh classical people who can't listen. Hard to see how ""reach in and pull out the impeller"" includes the part about you have to pull out the housing first. But here's what I posted. Thanks again, Matthew! Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 35344 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:54:21 -0000 Yes, vinegar might work, but I'd rather have it out and look at it and maybe change it. I understand that impellers break down all the time. Right now I have no idea what is wrong with it so I can't trust it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Roberts To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... When I was having filter issues where it wasn't maintaining suction, ML suggested I soak the impellers in vinegar to remove any deposits and that if that didn't fix the problem, to just replace the impeller. I did that and soaking it helped for a while, but it went back to losing suction, so I just Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 50740 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:56:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 You're right. The entire housing pulled right out. thanks! It looks like I'm in20business! I may see what the problem is - alot of stuff wound around the shaft. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew O' Farrell To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Grab the black plastic #4 houseing with your fingers and pull up the impaller will come with it. Then pull the impeller out of the houseing rinse under water using your fingers to rub off slim. Then get a bottle cleaning brush and clean the hole that the impellar goes into. Put back together the same way. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28864	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Antibiotic Question

Hi everybody, Five days ago, I noticed a big swelling in my Betta's belly. The next day it burst, and a really huge opening in the flesh was there. I moved him to a 1.5 g hospital jar, added sea salt, and a wide spectrum fish antibiotic (The box doesn't say what does it exactly contain, but they are capsules containing a crystallized white powder, completely dissolvable in water, its taste is really bitter, but almost all antibiotics taste bitter). At a time the opening in the flesh was so large (about 4mm=1/6 inch) that I considered putting the guy out of his misory, the one thing that stopped me was that he wasn't showing ANY sign of misory! he was eating like a horse, dancing for food everytime I come near his jar, and swimming almost normally. The instructions on the antibiiotic's box says that I should add it for 4 days, and change 50% of the water before. and then change 30% on the 5th day without adding anymore medicine. The wound is healing and the deep opening in the flesh is getting smaller. Do I need to keep adding the antibiotic after PWC's until the wound is completely healed? or is it enough to keep the water salty? Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28865	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those im

Here's another one that bounced. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 4671 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 23:33:38 -0000 Just want to give Matthew credit for saying the same thing differently. = It wasn't clear how to do it on my unit. :) It's fixed - sort of. It does move water but it makes a harsh sound on = startup. I'm going to replace it. =20 And to repeat, here's the second one that I said bounced in my other post. Deenerz never read through the post. Received: (qmail 50740 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:56:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) You're right. The entire housing pulled right out. thanks! It looks like I'm in business! I may see what the problem is - alot of stuff wound around the shaft. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... Now, if I argue any more with Deenerz, more people than him will think I"m being difficult. Deenerz, if I'm such a pain, you can stop helping me. Your help really isn't helping anyone's temper. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... The fact that it is specifically posts saying that I got my filter working and thanking people for their help that bounced proves that the listowners didn't bounce ti for being difficult, if we needed more proof that Deenerz responds before he reads what I wrote. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those impeller instructions Of course Yahoo never ever has any problems. Mail is always delivered in a timely fashion, with no bounces ever. Dora, We approve posts as soon as we see them. When we miss a post needing approval it shows up on the webpage as a pending post. Sticks out like a sore thumb, hard to miss. I find posts in message areas that I never get in my inbox. It happens, it is a part of yahoo. I get bounced messages frequently, several times a day, perhaps because I moderate many groups? Myself and the other "coots" do not make it a habit of deleting posts from members. We do however spend an exorbitant amount of time banning spammers and interecepting would be spammers from posting here. It would be nice to actually participate and get help here and help those who ask for it without continually having our names dragged through the mud or being called "Coots". Having disagreements and different opinions are great. But your continuing nasty attitude toward people that try and help you is unacceptable to me personally. The other people that moderate have more patience for you than I do, I encourage you to not treat them poorly. You do not have to be here. There are other lists out there where you may feel less persecuted. I recall reading your comments on other lists slamming this one. Perhaps you will feel more at home there?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28866	From: Matthew O' Farrell	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those im

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Your welcome glad I could help. Matty O' > Here's another one that bounced. > > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: > dosend: fatal: dbListGet error > I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. > > --- Below this line is a copy of the message. > > Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> > Received: (qmail 4671 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 23:33:38 - 0000 > > > Just want to give Matthew credit for saying the same thing differently. = > It wasn't clear how to do it on my unit. :) > > It's fixed - sort of. It does move water but it makes a harsh sound on = > startup. I'm going to replace it. =20 > > > And to repeat, here's the second one that I said bounced in my other post. > Deenerz never read through the post. > > > Received: (qmail 50740 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:56:31 - 0000 > Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) > > You're right. The entire housing pulled right out. thanks! It looks > like I'm in business! I may see what the problem is - alot of stuff wound > around the shaft. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > > Now, if I argue any more with Deenerz, more people than him will think I"m > being difficult. > > Deenerz, if I'm such a pain, you can stop helping me. Your help really > isn't helping anyone's temper. > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > > The fact that it is specifically posts saying that I got my filter working > and thanking people for their help that bounced proves that the listowners > didn't bounce ti for being difficult, if we needed more proof that Deenerz > responds before he reads what I wrote. > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Deenerz@... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:51 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about > those impeller instructions > > > Of course Yahoo never ever has any problems. Mail is always delivered in a > timely fashion, with no bounces ever. > > Dora, > > We approve posts as soon as we see them. When we miss a post needing > approval it shows up on the webpage as a pending post. Sticks out like a > sore thumb, hard to miss. I find posts in message areas that I never get in > my inbox. It happens, it is a part of yahoo. I get bounced messages > frequently, several times a day, perhaps because I moderate many groups? > > Myself and the other "coots" do not make it a habit of deleting posts from > members. We do however spend an exorbitant amount of time banning spammers > and interecepting would be spammers from posting here. It would be nice to > actually participate and get help here and help those who ask for it without > continually having our names dragged through the mud or being called > "Coots". > > Having disagreements and different opinions are great. But your continuing > nasty attitude toward people that try and help you is unacceptable to me > personally. The other people that moderate have more patience for you than I > do, I encourage you to not treat them poorly. > > You do not have to be here. There are other lists out there where you may > feel less persecuted. I recall reading your comments on other lists slamming > this one. Perhaps you will feel more at home there? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28867	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those im

Dora This is a group DEDICATED to trying to help people to be better fish keepers.. I have sat back for days and have seen you criticize and call the moderators names. Enough already. The instructions given to you about the impeller, a child could have followed. It seems that every time and I mean every time you ask for advice you argue with the person who tries to help you. If you spent more time taking care of your fish and less time arguing with those that are trying to help, you would not experience half your problems. Now let's get back to keeping fish!!!! John in Nevada Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: Deener, that's enough. You're the one who isn't listening. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those impeller instructions Of course Yahoo never ever has any problems. Mail is always delivered in a timely fashion, with no bounces ever. Dora, We approve posts as soon as we see them. When we miss a post needing approval it shows up on the webpage as a pending post. Sticks out like a sore thumb, hard to miss. I find posts in message areas that I never get in my inbox. It happens, it is a part of yahoo. I get bounced messages frequently, several times a day, perhaps because I moderate many groups? Myself and the other "coots" do not make it a habit of deleting posts from members. We do however spend an exorbitant amount of time banning spammers and interecepting would be spammers from posting here. It would be nice to actually participate and get help here and help those who ask for it without continually having our names dragged through the mud or being called "Coots". Having disagreements and different opinions are great. But your continuing nasty attitude toward people that try and help you is unacceptable to me personally. The other people that moderate have more patience for you than I do, I encourage you to not treat them poorly. You do not have to be here. There are other lists out there where you may feel less persecuted. I recall reading your comments on other lists slamming this one. Perhaps you will feel more at home there? Again, you do not have to be here. -Mike I posted these several days ago, and they bounced with an error message I've never seen before. I didn't realize that our coots who are carryign on about me hadn't simply not cared to read them. Don't know - maybe they ARE teh classical people who can't listen. Hard to see how ""reach in and pull out the impeller"" includes the part about you have to pull out the housing first. But here's what I posted. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 7:01 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about those impeller instructions I posted these several days ago, and they bounced with an error message I've never seen before. I didn't realize that our coots who are carryign on about me hadn't simply not cared to read them. Don't know - maybe they ARE teh classical people who can't listen. Hard to see how ""reach in and pull out the impeller"" includes the part about you have to pull out the housing first. But here's what I posted. Thanks again, Matthew! Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 35344 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:54:21 -0000 Yes, vinegar might work, but I'd rather have it out and look at it and maybe change it. I understand that impellers break down all the time. Right now I have no idea what is wrong with it so I can't trust it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Roberts To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... When I was having filter issues where it wasn't maintaining suction, ML suggested I soak the impellers in vinegar to remove any deposits and that if that didn't fix the problem, to just replace the impeller. I did that and soaking it helped for a while, but it went back to losing suction, so I just Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 50740 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:56:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 You're right. The entire housing pulled right out. thanks! It looks like I'm in20business! I may see what the problem is - alot of stuff wound around the shaft. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew O' Farrell To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Grab the black plastic #4 houseing with your fingers and pull up the impaller will come with it. Then pull the impeller out of the houseing rinse under water using your fingers to rub off slim. Then get a bottle cleaning brush and clean the hole that the impellar goes into. Put back together the same way. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28868	From: jett07002	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!

Hi Kristin. I never heard of buying pretreated water. I don't know! Maybe I just never asked. If you have a 10 gallon tank, phew! That's a lot of carrying. Bigger than that, forget it. I don't know where you live. Maybe it's really necessary. It has to be, especially in the long run, very expensive with religious partial water changes that should be done. If I am not being too newsy, how much do they charge? A trick to getting a tank cycled is to use old filter material, etc. You said you were keeping fish for a while so I guess you know that already. You could also do it with PLAIN ammonia (no additives), but that could get complicated and it will still take a week or so. Anywho, as you said LOL, if buying water is what you choose to do it's your money. Glad the tank is clearing up. Don't want to waste your reading time with water cycling if you don't want to do it. Good luck. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28869	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those im

Thank you, John. If I were a moderator of this group I would be thinking troll.. Traci <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Tue 07/29/08 11:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those impeller instructions Dora This is a group DEDICATED to trying to help people to be better fish keepers.. I have sat back for days and have seen you criticize and call the moderators names. Enough already. The instructions given to you about the impeller, a child could have followed. It seems that every time and I mean every time you ask for advice you argue with the person who tries to help you. If you spent more time taking care of your fish and less time arguing with those that are trying to help, you would not experience half your problems. Now let's get back to keeping fish!!!! John in Nevada Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > wrote: Deener, that's enough. You're the one who isn't listening. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those impeller instructions Of course Yahoo never ever has any problems. Mail is always delivered in a timely fashion, with no bounces ever. Dora, We approve posts as soon as we see them. When we miss a post needing approval it shows up on the webpage as a pending post. Sticks out like a sore thumb, hard to miss. I find posts in message areas that I never get in my inbox. It happens, it is a part of yahoo. I get bounced messages frequently, several times a day, perhaps because I moderate many groups? Myself and the other "coots" do not make it a habit of deleting posts from members. We do however spend an exorbitant amount of time banning spammers and interecepting would be spammers from posting here. It would be nice to actually participate and get help here and help those who ask for it without continually having our names dragged through the mud or being called "Coots". Having disagreements and different opinions are great. But your continuing nasty attitude toward people that try and help you is unacceptable to me personally. The other people that moderate have more patience for you than I do, I encourage you to not treat them poorly. You do not have to be here. There are other lists out there where you may feel less persecuted. I recall reading your comments on other lists slamming this one. Perhaps you will feel more at home there? Again, you do not have to be here. -Mike I posted these several days ago, and they bounced with an error message I've never seen before. I didn't realize that our coots who are carryign on about me hadn't simply not cared to read them. Don't know - maybe they ARE teh classical people who can't listen. Hard to see how ""reach in and pull out the impeller"" includes the part about you have to pull out the housing first. But here's what I posted. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 7:01 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about those impeller instructions I posted these several days ago, and they bounced with an error message I've never seen before. I didn't realize that our coots who are carryign on about me hadn't simply not cared to read them. Don't know - maybe they ARE teh classical people who can't listen. Hard to see how ""reach in and pull out the impeller"" includes the part about you have to pull out the housing first. But here's what I posted. Thanks again, Matthew! Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Received: (qmail 35344 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:54:21 -0000 Yes, vinegar might work, but I'd rather have it out and look at it and maybe change it. I understand that impellers break down all the time. Right now I have no idea what is wrong with it so I can't trust it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Roberts To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Peng... When I was having filter issues where it wasn't maintaining suction, ML suggested I soak the impellers in vinegar to remove any deposits and that if that didn't fix the problem, to just replace the impeller. I did that and soaking it helped for a while, but it went back to losing suction, so I just Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Received: (qmail 50740 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:56:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 You're right. The entire housing pulled right out. thanks! It looks like I'm in20business! I may see what the problem is - alot of stuff wound around the shaft. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew O' Farrell To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I clean or change the impeller on a Marineland/ Penguin power filter? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Grab the black plastic #4 houseing with your fingers and pull up the impaller will come with it. Then pull the impeller out of the houseing rinse under water using your fingers to rub off slim. Then get a bottle cleaning brush and clean the hole that the impellar goes into. Put back together the same way. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28870	From: thee_raven2006	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Puffer Fish

Does anyone know anything about setting up a tank for puffer fish? We're thinking about getting a figure 8 puffer but are having a hard time finding solid information on them. One place says to start them in freshwater another in brackish and if so what level of salinity? I know they're not quite as agressive as other puffers but still moderately so as far as puffers go so we've got a 10 gallon species tank set up with a sand substrate, fake plants for now and a couple hiding places that's still cycling. What's a good place to look for information to know if I'm doing this correctly? Any help would be appreciated. And Noura... that sounds HORRIBLE! Your poor betta!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28871	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those im

Dora, This is not the place to be talking about mail that does not reach its destination. Look here to find help and report problems with yahoo mail: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/ \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those impeller instructions Here's another one that bounced. <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>: dosend: fatal: dbListGet error I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: <tiggernut24@...> Received: (qmail 4671 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 23:33:38 -0000 Just want to give Matthew credit for saying the same thing differently. = It wasn't clear how to do it on my unit. :) It's fixed - sort of. It does move water but it makes a harsh sound on = startup. I'm going to replace it. =20 And to repeat, here's the second one that I said bounced in my other post. Deenerz never read through the post. Received: (qmail 50740 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 22:56:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) You're right. The entire housing pulled right out. thanks! It looks like I'm in business! I may see what the problem is - alot of stuff wound around the shaft. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... Now, if I argue any more with Deenerz, more people than him will think I"m being difficult. Deenerz, if I'm such a pain, you can stop helping me. Your help really isn't helping anyone's temper. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... The fact that it is specifically posts saying that I got my filter working and thanking people for their help that bounced proves that the listowners didn't bounce ti for being difficult, if we needed more proof that Deenerz responds before he reads what I wrote. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Being difficult, biting the helping hands. Was about those impeller instructions Of course Yahoo never ever has any problems. Mail is always delivered in a timely fashion, with no bounces ever. Dora, We approve posts as soon as we see them. When we miss a post needing approval it shows up on the webpage as a pending post. Sticks out like a sore thumb, hard to miss. I find posts in message areas that I never get in my inbox. It happens, it is a part of yahoo. I get bounced messages frequently, several times a day, perhaps because I moderate many groups? Myself and the other "coots" do not make it a habit of deleting posts from members. We do however spend an exorbitant amount of time banning spammers and interecepting would be spammers from posting here. It would be nice to actually participate and get help here and help those who ask for it without continually having our names dragged through the mud or being called "Coots". Having disagreements and different opinions are great. But your continuing nasty attitude toward people that try and help you is unacceptable to me personally. The other people that moderate have more patience for you than I do, I encourage you to not treat them poorly. You do not have to be here. There are other lists out there where you may feel less persecuted. I recall reading your comments on other lists slamming this one. Perhaps you will feel more at home there? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28872	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Puffer Fish

There may be a more recent book, but I have not seen it, so look in used book sections and auctions for _Brackish Aquariums_ by Michael Gos. It is an old TFH book. It covers the keeping of brackish water fish very well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thee_raven2006 Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 6:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Puffer Fish Does anyone know anything about setting up a tank for puffer fish? We're thinking about getting a figure 8 puffer but are having a hard time finding solid information on them. One place says to start them in freshwater another in brackish and if so what level of salinity? I know they're not quite as agressive as other puffers but still moderately so as far as puffers go so we've got a 10 gallon species tank set up with a sand substrate, fake plants for now and a couple hiding places that's still cycling. What's a good place to look for information to know if I'm doing this correctly? Any help would be appreciated. And Noura... that sounds HORRIBLE! Your poor betta!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28873	From: Debra	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Puffer Fish

To thee_raven: I have a brackish tank set up for a puffer, red faced scat, and an accidently acquired hermit crab. Most of the information I got about puffers was online but, I also purchased "Brakish Water Fishes" edited by Neale Monks. It's a great resource for brackish aquariums. Mine is currently a 10 gal. set up but once the scat grows a little more I'm moving them to a 50 gal. I have found my trio very adaptive to my learning curve though I would seriously tell you to WATCH out if you are using live snails for food. The puffers need them to keep their teeth trimmed but if you over feed you will have nitrite problems for sure. Also, they love blood worms and are easy to spoil. Both the puffer and the scat have gotten so they won't eat anything that hits the substrate. I am in a retraining program now to try and keep me from overfeeding them Good luck. Puffers and scats are great fish with lots of personality. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "thee_raven2006" <thee_raven2006@...> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:50:59 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Puffer Fish Does anyone know anything about setting up a tank for puffer fish? We're thinking about getting a figure 8 puffer but are having a hard time finding solid information on them. One place says to start them in freshwater another in brackish and if so what level of salinity? I know they're not quite as agressive as other puffers but still moderately so as far as puffers go so we've got a 10 gallon species tank set up with a sand substrate, fake plants for now and a couple hiding places that's still cycling. What's a good place to look for information to know if I'm doing this correctly? Any help would be appreciated. And Noura... that sounds HORRIBLE! Your poor betta! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28874	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotic Question

Follow the directions the medication gives. If the healing continues, and there are no ill effects after the 5th day, do not use any more of the medication. You do not want to overdose the fish. On the other hand, if a few days after the treatment stops, and the fish does not continue to improve, give another course of the medication. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Antibiotic Question Hi everybody, Five days ago, I noticed a big swelling in my Betta's belly. The next day it burst, and a really huge opening in the flesh was there. I moved him to a 1.5 g hospital jar, added sea salt, and a wide spectrum fish antibiotic (The box doesn't say what does it exactly contain, but they are capsules containing a crystallized white powder, completely dissolvable in water, its taste is really bitter, but almost all antibiotics taste bitter). At a time the opening in the flesh was so large (about 4mm=1/6 inch) that I considered putting the guy out of his misory, the one thing that stopped me was that he wasn't showing ANY sign of misory! he was eating like a horse, dancing for food everytime I come near his jar, and swimming almost normally. The instructions on the antibiiotic's box says that I should add it for 4 days, and change 50% of the water before. and then change 30% on the 5th day without adding anymore medicine. The wound is healing and the deep opening in the flesh is getting smaller. Do I need to keep adding the antibiotic after PWC's until the wound is completely healed? or is it enough to keep the water salty? Thanks Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28875	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!

What is so complicated about using plain ammonia to cycle a tank, with, or without, used material to provide some seeding of the bacteria? Simply add enough ammonia each day to get to 5 ppm until it is consumed each day, and both the ammonia and nitrites measure 0, then you can safely add a number of fish, or fully stock the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird! Hi Kristin. I never heard of buying pretreated water. I don't know! Maybe I just never asked. If you have a 10 gallon tank, phew! That's a lot of carrying. Bigger than that, forget it. I don't know where you live. Maybe it's really necessary. It has to be, especially in the long run, very expensive with religious partial water changes that should be done. If I am not being too newsy, how much do they charge? A trick to getting a tank cycled is to use old filter material, etc. You said you were keeping fish for a while so I guess you know that already. You could also do it with PLAIN ammonia (no additives), but that could get complicated and it will still take a week or so. Anywho, as you said LOL, if buying water is what you choose to do it's your money. Glad the tank is clearing up. Don't want to waste your reading time with water cycling if you don't want to do it. Good luck. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28876	From: Kristin	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!

Well, no one said it was hard but, to a busy parent with a child it might just be similar way for them. There are lots of reasons why this way might be simpler. For instance, my mom does this for my grandmothers tank because she has memory problems. The nurses help her feed the fish (and keep the food up so she cant OVER feed) but, tank eminence is just easier for us this way and its less time on my mother because she doesn't live with us. Its not expensive most of the time. I think my mom pays $3.50 a gallon. Which, might add up to be a lot but sometimes time is money too. Also if you buy a starter set, then a lot of times you can get the water free or discounted. Its sold in gallon jugs, just like many people buy water at the store. The fish make my grandmother happy because she had to give up her dog when we moved her to GA from MS after Katrina. Fish are the only "pets" she can have. I think another reason this is popular here is because 1. A lot of people have Well Water and also most people in my area have WAY too much money. I, unfortunately, am not in this position. However most of the houses surround us for miles in every direction are range from $500K - $5Million. If its a way to make money (as a business owner) you do it! Believe it or not, a lot of business also use it with their fish tanks if they don't have a large tank and someone to maintain it. I know my dentist does! But, personally, it is like throwing money out the door in my opinion. ~Kristin -------Original Message------- From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/29/2008 9:39:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird! What is so complicated about using plain ammonia to cycle a tank, with, or without, used material to provide some seeding of the bacteria? Simply add enough ammonia each day to get to 5 ppm until it is consumed each day, and both the ammonia and nitrites measure 0, then you can safely add a number of fish, or fully stock the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird! Hi Kristin. I never heard of buying pretreated water. I don't know! Maybe I just never asked. If you have a 10 gallon tank, phew! That's a lot of carrying. Bigger than that, forget it. I don't know where you live. Maybe it's really necessary. It has to be, especially in the long run, very expensive with religious partial water changes that should be done. If I am not being too newsy, how much do they charge? A trick to getting a tank cycled is to use old filter material, etc. You said you were keeping fish for a while so I guess you know that already. You could also do it with PLAIN ammonia (no additives), but that could get complicated and it will still take a week or so. Anywho, as you said LOL, if buying water is what you choose to do it's your money. Glad the tank is clearing up. Don't want to waste your reading time with water cycling if you don't want to do it. Good luck. joe t ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28877	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2008
Subject: Salt in FW Aquaria

It is tough for me to come up with a subject line that is short and understandable for this post, so, I apologize if this veers off from what you may think it is. Now I know that few of you read, or even look at scientific journals in pursuit of your fish hobby, but I at least skim the one I will be mentioning four times a year (what a coincidence that it is also published 4 times during the year), and do occasionally, as the opportunity presents itself, look at others that may have articles that I would consider relevant, even in an obtuse manner. The publication I am talking about today is _Copeia_, and, if not in your collection, may be found in most large university libraries, as well as others that may have a program for fish (ichthyology) and/or reptiles (herpetology). The reference would be: Fuller, Rebecca C., "A Test for a Trade-Off in Salinity Tolerance in Early Life-History Stages in _Lucania goodei_ and _L. parva_", _Copeia_ 2008, No. 1, 154-157. The two fish listed here are North American fish, with _L. goodei_ found in mostly freshwater, and _L. parva_ found in mostly brackish water, and are closely related. What was done was to breed these fish, the former in water with various concentration of salt added to fresh water and the latter to increasingly fresh water to determine the viability of the eggs and fry. As the water got increasingly saltier, the _L. goodie_ egg and fry viability decreased, and the opposite was not true for the _L. parva_. _L. parva_ viability of eggs and fry remained virtually the same no matter the decrease in salinity of the water. So, the sage aquarist may ask, what does this mean to me? Well, frankly, it may not mean much. However, if you are one who likes to use prophylactic doses of salt in your tanks, and may wish to breed fish, it may mean a lot when it comes to the number of eggs you get, and the number of fry that may be raised to maturity for fish normally found in fresh water. Inferring does have its hazards. The study did not measure the viability of the adult fish in various salinities, so the above warning about using salt as a prophylactic is merely conjecture, but if you are one who always adds salt to a tank when doing water changes may want to think about abandoning the use of salt, especially when breeding, to avoid any adverse effects it may have. Be aware that the temporary use of slat when treating for disease can be effective, especially when it is indicated that it should be used, i.e. in the treatment of ich. However, using salt as a continual prophylactic should be rethought. Have at it people. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28878	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird!

But the water does not contain the beneficial bacteria. It would be worth more if they would sell you an established filter! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kristin Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird! Well, no one said it was hard but, to a busy parent with a child it might just be similar way for them. There are lots of reasons why this way might be simpler. For instance, my mom does this for my grandmothers tank because she has memory problems. The nurses help her feed the fish (and keep the food up so she cant OVER feed) but, tank eminence is just easier for us this way and its less time on my mother because she doesn't live with us. Its not expensive most of the time. I think my mom pays $3.50 a gallon. Which, might add up to be a lot but sometimes time is money too. Also if you buy a starter set, then a lot of times you can get the water free or discounted. Its sold in gallon jugs, just like many people buy water at the store. The fish make my grandmother happy because she had to give up her dog when we moved her to GA from MS after Katrina. Fish are the only "pets" she can have. I think another reason this is popular here is because 1. A lot of people have Well Water and also most people in my area have WAY too much money. I, unfortunately, am not in this position. However most of the houses surround us for miles in every direction are range from $500K - $5Million. If its a way to make money (as a business owner) you do it! Believe it or not, a lot of business also use it with their fish tanks if they don't have a large tank and someone to maintain it. I know my dentist does! But, personally, it is like throwing money out the door in my opinion. ~Kristin -------Original Message------- From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/29/2008 9:39:31 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird! What is so complicated about using plain ammonia to cycle a tank, with, or without, used material to provide some seeding of the bacteria? Simply add enough ammonia each day to get to 5 ppm until it is consumed each day, and both the ammonia and nitrites measure 0, then you can safely add a number of fish, or fully stock the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie- sorry if this posts weird! Hi Kristin. I never heard of buying pretreated water. I don't know! Maybe I just never asked. If you have a 10 gallon tank, phew! That's a lot of carrying. Bigger than that, forget it. I don't know where you live. Maybe it's really necessary. It has to be, especially in the long run, very expensive with religious partial water changes that should be done. If I am not being too newsy, how much do they charge? A trick to getting a tank cycled is to use old filter material, etc. You said you were keeping fish for a while so I guess you know that already. You could also do it with PLAIN ammonia (no additives), but that could get complicated and it will still take a week or so. Anywho, as you said LOL, if buying water is what you choose to do it's your money. Glad the tank is clearing up. Don't want to waste your reading time with water cycling if you don't want to do it. Good luck. joe t ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28879	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Salt in FW Aquaria

That's very cool. May we quote you on other fish forums? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Salt in FW Aquaria It is tough for me to come up with a subject line that is short and understandable for this post, so, I apologize if this veers off from what you may think it is. Now I know that few of you read, or even look at scientific journals in pursuit of your fish hobby, but I at least skim the one I will be mentioning four times a year (what a coincidence that it is also published 4 times during the year), and do occasionally, as the opportunity presents itself, look at others that may have articles that I would consider relevant, even in an obtuse manner. The publication I am talking about today is _Copeia_, and, if not in your collection, may be found in most large university libraries, as well as others that may have a program for fish (ichthyology) and/or reptiles (herpetology). The reference would be: Fuller, Rebecca C., "A Test for a Trade-Off in Salinity Tolerance in Early Life-History Stages in _Lucania goodei_ and _L. parva_", _Copeia_ 2008, No. 1, 154-157. The two fish listed here are North American fish, with _L. goodei_ found in mostly freshwater, and _L. parva_ found in mostly brackish water, and are closely related. What was done was to breed these fish, the former in water with various concentration of salt added to fresh water and the latter to increasingly fresh water to determine the viability of the eggs and fry. As the water got increasingly saltier, the _L. goodie_ egg and fry viability decreased, and the opposite was not true for the _L. parva_. _L. parva_ viability of eggs and fry remained virtually the same no matter the decrease in salinity of the water. So, the sage aquarist may ask, what does this mean to me? Well, frankly, it may not mean much. However, if you are one who likes to use prophylactic doses of salt in your tanks, and may wish to breed fish, it may mean a lot when it comes to the number of eggs you get, and the number of fry that may be raised to maturity for fish normally found in fresh water. Inferring does have its hazards. The study did not measure the viability of the adult fish in various salinities, so the above warning about using salt as a prophylactic is merely conjecture, but if you are one who always adds salt to a tank when doing water changes may want to think about abandoning the use of salt, especially when breeding, to avoid any adverse effects it may have. Be aware that the temporary use of slat when treating for disease can be effective, especially when it is indicated that it should be used, i.e. in the treatment of ich. However, using salt as a continual prophylactic should be rethought. Have at it people. \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28880	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Salt in FW Aquaria

That would be OK, just so long as it is clear that my speculations are my own, and not those of the author of the paper. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 5:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Salt in FW Aquaria That's very cool. May we quote you on other fish forums? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Salt in FW Aquaria It is tough for me to come up with a subject line that is short and understandable for this post, so, I apologize if this veers off from what you may think it is. Now I know that few of you read, or even look at scientific journals in pursuit of your fish hobby, but I at least skim the one I will be mentioning four times a year (what a coincidence that it is also published 4 times during the year), and do occasionally, as the opportunity presents itself, look at others that may have articles that I would consider relevant, even in an obtuse manner. The publication I am talking about today is _Copeia_, and, if not in your collection, may be found in most large university libraries, as well as others that may have a program for fish (ichthyology) and/or reptiles (herpetology). The reference would be: Fuller, Rebecca C., "A Test for a Trade-Off in Salinity Tolerance in Early Life-History Stages in _Lucania goodei_ and _L. parva_", _Copeia_ 2008, No. 1, 154-157. The two fish listed here are North American fish, with _L. goodei_ found in mostly freshwater, and _L. parva_ found in mostly brackish water, and are closely related. What was done was to breed these fish, the former in water with various concentration of salt added to fresh water and the latter to increasingly fresh water to determine the viability of the eggs and fry. As the water got increasingly saltier, the _L. goodie_ egg and fry viability decreased, and the opposite was not true for the _L. parva_. _L. parva_ viability of eggs and fry remained virtually the same no matter the decrease in salinity of the water. So, the sage aquarist may ask, what does this mean to me? Well, frankly, it may not mean much. However, if you are one who likes to use prophylactic doses of salt in your tanks, and may wish to breed fish, it may mean a lot when it comes to the number of eggs you get, and the number of fry that may be raised to maturity for fish normally found in fresh water. Inferring does have its hazards. The study did not measure the viability of the adult fish in various salinities, so the above warning about using salt as a prophylactic is merely conjecture, but if you are one who always adds salt to a tank when doing water changes may want to think about abandoning the use of salt, especially when breeding, to avoid any adverse effects it may have. Be aware that the temporary use of slat when treating for disease can be effective, especially when it is indicated that it should be used, i.e. in the treatment of ich. However, using salt as a continual prophylactic should be rethought. Have at it people. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28881	From: pam andress	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Salt in FW Aquaria

My brain hurts now from reading this. I hope yours doesn't from writing it. ;) Actually that was very good. I don't read any scientific journals and had not heard of any study like that. I do use salt if treating for ich etc.., but not all the time. I had not thought of it hurting any of my egg layers or live bearers with regards to offspring. Gave me something to think about. Hence my brain hurting. lol Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: steve@...: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:24:12 -0400Subject: [AquaticLife] Salt in FW Aquaria It is tough for me to come up with a subject line that is short andunderstandable for this post, so, I apologize if this veers off fromwhat you may think it is.Now I know that few of you read, or even look at scientific journals inpursuit of your fish hobby, but I at least skim the one I will bementioning four times a year (what a coincidence that it is alsopublished 4 times during the year), and do occasionally, as theopportunity presents itself, look at others that may have articles thatI would consider relevant, even in an obtuse manner. The publication Iam talking about today is _Copeia_, and, if not in your collection, maybe found in most large university libraries, as well as others that mayhave a program for fish (ichthyology) and/or reptiles (herpetology).The reference would be:Fuller, Rebecca C., "A Test for a Trade-Off in Salinity Tolerance inEarly Life-History Stages in _Lucania goodei_ and _L. parva_", _Copeia_2008, No. 1, 154-157.The two fish listed here are North American fish, with _L. goodei_ foundin mostly freshwater, and _L. parva_ found in mostly brackish water, andare closely related. What was done was to breed these fish, the formerin water with various concentration of salt added to fresh water and thelatter to increasingly fresh water to determine the viability of theeggs and fry. As the water got increasingly saltier, the _L. goodie_ eggand fry viability decreased, and the opposite was not true for the _L.parva_. _L. parva_ viability of eggs and fry remained virtually the sameno matter the decrease in salinity of the water.So, the sage aquarist may ask, what does this mean to me? Well, frankly,it may not mean much. However, if you are one who likes to useprophylactic doses of salt in your tanks, and may wish to breed fish, itmay mean a lot when it comes to the number of eggs you get, and thenumber of fry that may be raised to maturity for fish normally found infresh water.Inferring does have its hazards. The study did not measure the viabilityof the adult fish in various salinities, so the above warning aboutusing salt as a prophylactic is merely conjecture, but if you are onewho always adds salt to a tank when doing water changes may want tothink about abandoning the use of salt, especially when breeding, toavoid any adverse effects it may have.Be aware that the temporary use of slat when treating for disease can beeffective, especially when it is indicated that it should be used, i.e.in the treatment of ich. However, using salt as a continual prophylacticshould be rethought.Have at it people.\\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28882	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Salt in FW Aquaria

I did note that temporary use of salt, where indicated, should not be abandoned, but the use of salt as a prophylactic, where a concentration of salt is always present, should be re-thought by those who do it. The study was with egg layers, not livebearers, and I would hesitate to make the leap to livebearers. The species in the study are closely related, except for their preference in the salt content of the water. If you study livebearers, you will note that many come from hard water areas, and some do come from brackish areas. Salt is an easy way to increase water hardness to mimic conditions in the wild for livebearers. However, before adding salt, find out if it may be beneficial for the livebearers you are keeping. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:33 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Salt in FW Aquaria My brain hurts now from reading this. I hope yours doesn't from writing it. ;) Actually that was very good. I don't read any scientific journals and had not heard of any study like that. I do use salt if treating for ich etc.., but not all the time. I had not thought of it hurting any of my egg layers or live bearers with regards to offspring. Gave me something to think about. Hence my brain hurting. lol Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: steve@...: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:24:12 -0400Subject: [AquaticLife] Salt in FW Aquaria It is tough for me to come up with a subject line that is short andunderstandable for this post, so, I apologize if this veers off fromwhat you may think it is.Now I know that few of you read, or even look at scientific journals inpursuit of your fish hobby, but I at least skim the one I will bementioning four times a year (what a coincidence that it is alsopublished 4 times during the year), and do occasionally, as theopportunity presents itself, look at others that may have articles thatI would consider relevant, even in an obtuse manner. The publication Iam talking about today is _Copeia_, and, if not in your collection, maybe found in most large university libraries, as well as others that mayhave a program for fish (ichthyology) and/or reptiles (herpetology).The reference would be:Fuller, Rebecca C., "A Test for a Trade-Off in Salinity Tolerance inEarly Life-History Stages in _Lucania goodei_ and _L. parva_", _Copeia_2008, No. 1, 154-157.The two fish listed here are North American fish, with _L. goodei_ foundin mostly freshwater, and _L. parva_ found in mostly brackish water, andare closely related. What was done was to breed these fish, the formerin water with various concentration of salt added to fresh water and thelatter to increasingly fresh water to determine the viability of theeggs and fry. As the water got increasingly saltier, the _L. goodie_ eggand fry viability decreased, and the opposite was not true for the _L.parva_. _L. parva_ viability of eggs and fry remained virtually the sameno matter the decrease in salinity of the water.So, the sage aquarist may ask, what does this mean to me? Well, frankly,it may not mean much. However, if you are one who likes to useprophylactic doses of salt in your tanks, and may wish to breed fish, itmay mean a lot when it comes to the number of eggs you get, and thenumber of fry that may be raised to maturity for fish normally found infresh water.Inferring does have its hazards. The study did not measure the viabilityof the adult fish in various salinities, so the above warning aboutusing salt as a prophylactic is merely conjecture, but if you are onewho always adds salt to a tank when doing water changes may want tothink about abandoning the use of salt, especially when breeding, toavoid any adverse effects it may have.Be aware that the temporary use of slat when treating for disease can beeffective, especially when it is indicated that it should be used, i.e.in the treatment of ich. However, using salt as a continual prophylacticshould be rethought.Have at it people.\\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28883	From: N Taweel	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotic Question

Thank you Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 4:26 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Antibiotic Question Follow the directions the medication gives. If the healing continues, and there are no ill effects after the 5th day, do not use any more of the medication. You do not want to overdose the fish. On the other hand, if a few days after the treatment stops, and the fish does not continue to improve, give another course of the medication. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28884	From: jacob avera	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day

wow, I'm going to keep quite, I posted because I saw the puffer post. I'm kind'a new. I only got fishes originally as bio-mass for my future invertebrate tank(fresh water)That was until I found out danios like shrimp more than I do. Now its a danios tank. I get a kick out of the stuff they do. I put real rocks from clean dirt(washed)in their tank hoping they would lay eggs there and not eat them. these fish can actually swim through the rocks and even under them, chasing each other all the way.< sorry I babble about zebras> back to the puffers. I've had my eye on one because out of all the fish in the store he's the only one that watched me. but I didn't know about ?Brackish water. is that like bayou water? or stagnant or what? Thanks Jake P.s. if anybody's interested I've got a cool movie about 9Mb showing some microscopic worms from my tank. My aquarium store guy saw and said their common, they have bristles on their body and a nose like a hummingbird.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28885	From: thee_raven2006	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Puffer Fish

Thanks so much! This is a great starting point. I'll let you know how it goes. =)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28886	From: tteitgen	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Puffer Fish

Whers a website to look at. http://www.pufferlist.com/articles.htm --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There may be a more recent book, but I have not seen it, so look in used > book sections and auctions for _Brackish Aquariums_ by Michael Gos. It > is an old TFH book. It covers the keeping of brackish water fish very > well. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of thee_raven2006 > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 6:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Puffer Fish > > Does anyone know anything about setting up a tank for puffer fish? > We're thinking about getting a figure 8 puffer but are having a hard > time finding solid information on them. One place says to start them > in freshwater another in brackish and if so what level of salinity? I > know they're not quite as agressive as other puffers but still > moderately so as far as puffers go so we've got a 10 gallon species > tank set up with a sand substrate, fake plants for now and a couple > hiding places that's still cycling. What's a good place to look for > information to know if I'm doing this correctly? Any help would be > appreciated. And Noura... that sounds HORRIBLE! Your poor betta! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28887	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day

It's pretty quiet around here this week, everyone must be on vacation. Normally, Jacob, you would have had your answer by now. Brackish water is really a mix of seawater and freshwater. It occurs when freshwater meets the ocean. The salinity can vary quite a bit, even if you measured it in the same point at various times during the day. In the aquarium, we simply add marine salt to the water until the salinity is 1.005 to 1.012, or thereabouts. No real worry about it being exact, since most of the fish are pretty flexible about the amount of salinity. When doing water changes, you need not maintain the exact level of salinity, but can let it move up or down. I observed, years ago, that changing the salinity seemed to make the fish improve in health and appear healthier. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jacob avera Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 12:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day wow, I'm going to keep quite, I posted because I saw the puffer post. I'm kind'a new. I only got fishes originally as bio-mass for my future invertebrate tank(fresh water)That was until I found out danios like shrimp more than I do. Now its a danios tank. I get a kick out of the stuff they do. I put real rocks from clean dirt(washed)in their tank hoping they would lay eggs there and not eat them. these fish can actually swim through the rocks and even under them, chasing each other all the way.< sorry I babble about zebras> back to the puffers. I've had my eye on one because out of all the fish in the store he's the only one that watched me. but I didn't know about ?Brackish water. is that like bayou water? or stagnant or what? Thanks Jake P.s. if anybody's interested I've got a cool movie about 9Mb showing some microscopic worms from my tank. My aquarium store guy saw and said their common, they have bristles on their body and a nose like a hummingbird.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28888	From: Anndrea	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Lonnng post...

I recently obtained an Oscar. I have been told many things on how much and what he should eat. From "feed him every 2-3 days and only insects, worms, or pellets" to "feed him live goldfish or minnows twice a day" to "put half a dowzen or more feeder fish (golds or minnows) in and he'll eat as he feels hungry". Any suggestions or thoughts on what I really should do? He is about 8 inches, no ides on age or his previous diet. He also lays on the gravel a lot. Usually by the heater and filter. Is this normal Oscar behavior? He probably has Ich, could that make him lay down a lot? I HAD 5 neon tetras...they have ALL died. All I did was move them one tank to another...better water perameters (sp?). What happened? I now have TWO tanks that look like the fish have Ich. The only thing that has changed in the last month is that my mom is now running the air conditioner at 80 degrees during the day and 75 at night. No heaters in the tanks. When the AC was on 75, tanks stayed pretty steady around 78-80. Now the tanks are flluctuating with her changing the room temperature. Could that be why the Ich outbreak? Will using heaters to raise the temperature really get rid of the Ich? How long could it take for Ich to kill a Pictus Catfish? I don't know what else may have killed an otherwise healthy fish. He was being chased by a couple other fish, but I didn't find any evidence like tattered fins or marks on him. I have 4 dalmation molly fry in a breeder container thingy...in a tank that has Ich...should I leave them in there? If I switch them to another tank, could they end up taking Ich with them? Two male bettas. Separate tanks. Came from the same person who did not take care of them. NASTY water in their "tanks". Now in good water. When I sit at my desk (where one betta tank is) that fish stays in the corner closest to me, apparently watching me. The other tank is in the kitchen and has a sunken ship decorations in it to hold down the air tubing to his bubbler. He hides up inside the ship ALL THE TIME. Is that normal? Also, BOTH bettas have solid black eyes...no ring of color...and black inside their gills...could it just be their coloration? Thanks in advance for any and all info, suggestions, advice. anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28889	From: risika23	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Loaches

I have about 4 dojo loaches in my 55 gallon tank. They have been in there for about a month. I have noticed one of my loachs isn't feeling well. He has not gained wieght like the others and his tail is frayed looking. Do you guys have any idea what this could be? How do I make him better? Jennifer Ps. I took a sample of my water to the pet store and it is fine.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28890	From: Anndrea	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy question

I don't know much about fish...but a lady gave me a BUNCH of platy babies (not quite fry anymore) and the mama platy. She had one platy female she bought from the store...put in a tank with NO other fish...and out came babies...not unusual...BUT...the mama fish was an orange-red color, and some of the babies are an off white (similar to the gold ones, I believe?)...and some had both the orange color and the off white... So I guess if I had to guess...they don't always all look like the mama...maybe your mamas just have dominant genese somehow? Have fun, and enjoy those babies! anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28891	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day

I wish I was on vacation. I've been pulling 12+ hour days lately. How's the weather down in SA this time of year? My brother went there a couple of years ago for a vacation. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 8:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day It's pretty quiet around here this week, everyone must be on vacation. Normally, Jacob, you would have had your answer by now. Brackish water is really a mix of seawater and freshwater. It occurs when freshwater meets the ocean. The salinity can vary quite a bit, even if you measured it in the same point at various times during the day. In the aquarium, we simply add marine salt to the water until the salinity is 1.005 to 1.012, or thereabouts. No real worry about it being exact, since most of the fish are pretty flexible about the amount of salinity. When doing water changes, you need not maintain the exact level of salinity, but can let it move up or down. I observed, years ago, that changing the salinity seemed to make the fish improve in health and appear healthier. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of jacob avera Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 12:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day wow, I'm going to keep quite, I posted because I saw the puffer post. I'm kind'a new. I only got fishes originally as bio-mass for my future invertebrate tank(fresh water)That was until I found out danios like shrimp more than I do. Now its a danios tank. I get a kick out of the stuff they do. I put real rocks from clean dirt(washed)in their tank hoping they would lay eggs there and not eat them. these fish can actually swim through the rocks and even under them, chasing each other all the way.< sorry I babble about zebras> back to the puffers. I've had my eye on one because out of all the fish in the store he's the only one that watched me. but I didn't know about ?Brackish water. is that like bayou water? or stagnant or what? Thanks Jake P.s. if anybody's interested I've got a cool movie about 9Mb showing some microscopic worms from my tank. My aquarium store guy saw and said their common, they have bristles on their body and a nose like a hummingbird. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080730-0, 07/30/2008 Tested on: 7/30/2008 9:24:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28892	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 7/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy question

Thanks Anndrea for telling me about yours. Maybe some of the new fry wont look just like the female. We shall see. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Anndrea <anndreae@...> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 9:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy question I don't know much about fish...but a lady gave me a BUNCH of platy babies (not quite fry anymore) and the mama platy. She had one platy female she bought from the store...put in a tank with NO other fish...and out came babies...not unusual...BUT...the mama fish was an orange-red color, and some of the babies are an off white (similar to the gold ones, I believe?)...and some had both the orange color and the off white... So I guess if I had to guess...they don't always all look like the mama...maybe your mamas just have dominant genese somehow? Have fun, and enjoy those babies! anndrea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28893	From: Rich	Date: 7/31/2008
Subject: Re: Lonnng post... (Bettas)

I snipped this because I'm only replying to tbe betta portion due to not having much to offer on the other questions :) Some info on the tanks would be great - what size, are they heated/filtered, how often is the water changed... Bettas are not the speediest of fish, but not moving at all and not responding to stimuli is bad. IMO the cramped quarters they're often seen in makes people think they just float around or lay on the bottom all day. My crowntail is in a 5 gallon hex and he's constantly exploring all levels of the tank. Sure, he rests on plants or the substrate once in awhile - which is normal. I keep the tank at 80 degrees (77-82 or therabouts is what I've seen recommended so 80 hits the sweet spot) and give the tank the standard weekly 20-25%  water change. Do they eat reliably? They can be picky eaters, as well (though mine isn't and I really have to exercise restraint and not overfeed!) Rich > Two male bettas. Separate tanks. Came from the same person who did > not take care of them. NASTY water in their "tanks". Now in good > water. When I sit at my desk (where one betta tank is) that fish > stays in the corner closest to me, apparently watching me. The other > tank is in the kitchen and has a sunken ship decorations in it to > hold down the air tubing to his bubbler. He hides up inside the ship > ALL THE TIME. Is that normal? > > Also, BOTH bettas have solid black eyes...no ring of color...and > black inside their gills...could it just be their coloration?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28894	From: Matt	Date: 7/31/2008
Subject: new to the list!

hey everyone! my name is Matt, i live in the lakes region of New Hampshire, and i have a 30 gallon freshwater tank, and a outdoor water garden. i am gathering pictures of bolth, and should have them up on Flickr soon, anywho..... i have a question about java moss.. i know it can look great in an tank witch is why i bought it,, but i am trying to "attach it to a piece of cork.. now here lays my question, how the heck can i weigh this stuff down!? i have a plan to tie it to a piece of slate, or glue it to the slate, then tie the moss to the whole thing. tying all of this together with black thread. any opionins? what do you do with the stuff? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28895	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/31/2008
Subject: Re: Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day

Lenny, I take it that your reply is directed at me. I no longer work 12 hour days on weekends. If I do work on weekends, it is seldom for more than 6 hours, and not on both days. The 50-80 hours I put in during the 5 days of the work week are plenty for me. What's the reference to SA? I only know that it is the default user for SQL. Could also mean South Africa, Southern Australia, or South America, all places with interesting fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day I wish I was on vacation. I've been pulling 12+ hour days lately. How's the weather down in SA this time of year? My brother went there a couple of years ago for a vacation. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 8:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day It's pretty quiet around here this week, everyone must be on vacation. Normally, Jacob, you would have had your answer by now. Brackish water is really a mix of seawater and freshwater. It occurs when freshwater meets the ocean. The salinity can vary quite a bit, even if you measured it in the same point at various times during the day. In the aquarium, we simply add marine salt to the water until the salinity is 1.005 to 1.012, or thereabouts. No real worry about it being exact, since most of the fish are pretty flexible about the amount of salinity. When doing water changes, you need not maintain the exact level of salinity, but can let it move up or down. I observed, years ago, that changing the salinity seemed to make the fish improve in health and appear healthier. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of jacob avera Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 12:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi guys-Saw the posts, glad I only get one a day wow, I'm going to keep quite, I posted because I saw the puffer post. I'm kind'a new. I only got fishes originally as bio-mass for my future invertebrate tank(fresh water)That was until I found out danios like shrimp more than I do. Now its a danios tank. I get a kick out of the stuff they do. I put real rocks from clean dirt(washed)in their tank hoping they would lay eggs there and not eat them. these fish can actually swim through the rocks and even under them, chasing each other all the way.< sorry I babble about zebras> back to the puffers. I've had my eye on one because out of all the fish in the store he's the only one that watched me. but I didn't know about ?Brackish water. is that like bayou water? or stagnant or what? Thanks Jake P.s. if anybody's interested I've got a cool movie about 9Mb showing some microscopic worms from my tank. My aquarium store guy saw and said their common, they have bristles on their body and a nose like a hummingbird.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28896	From: robert_bussey	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Hi All !!! New On The Site

Hi all, My name is Robert and I'm from Cape Town South Africa. I'm one of those people who suffer from "MTS" <multiple tank syndrome> I currently have 4 Fresh water tanks ranging from 30 litres to 120 litres and I'm still busy building a custom tank that will hold +- 600 litres of water (this will be a planted discus tank).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28897	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Re: Hi All !!! New On The Site

Hi Robert, I always laugh when I first see MTS as I think Malaysian Trumpet Snail. I guess you could say I suffer from MTS too with 11 tanks running and a couple more in the works. lol. Granted all of them, except one, are 10 gallons or under. Welcome! Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: robert_bussey <robert_bussey@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 3:31:00 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi All !!! New On The Site Hi all, My name is Robert and I'm from Cape Town South Africa. I'm one of those people who suffer from "MTS" <multiple tank syndrome> I currently have 4 Fresh water tanks ranging from 30 litres to 120 litres and I'm still busy building a custom tank that will hold +- 600 litres of water (this will be a planted discus tank). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28898	From: wellrimdangel	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: New with a ? about tank repair

A friend gave me a 75 gallon tank. It has a melted top and the lids wont fit right. I bought a replacement top the only problem is I cant get the top molding off to replace it. Does anyone have any ideas. I ran a razor blade down both sides, inside and out and that didnt work. Sign FRUSTRATED

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28899	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair

If you have a heat gun you may be able to soften the plastic enough to free it. I use one regularly to customize plastic models. Jackie, new member in CA --- wellrimdangel <wellrimdangel@...> wrote: > A friend gave me a 75 gallon tank. It has a melted > top and the lids > wont fit right. I bought a replacement top the only > problem is I cant > get the top molding off to replace it. Does anyone > have any ideas. I > ran a razor blade down both sides, inside and out > and that didnt work. > > Sign FRUSTRATED > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Jackie Huey Dreamsteeds@... http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28900	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair

Hi Frusrated, I too have a tank with a defective top which I have not addressed as of yet. Since your glass is going to be thicker than mine the silicon glue they use may take some doing to get it off not just on the sides. I would attach a cutting wheel to my Dremel drill and start to cut through the top plastic until you can see what you are dealing with. In the even that you do not have a Dremel drill. Then you could address the top plastic with either a fine tooth hack saw blade- or coping saw just to get into the top layer of the plastic you are trying to remove. These are just some ideas I have that come to mind. You could also call and discuss with a large store how they deal with these issues or even the supplier of the new cover. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. wellrimdangel wrote: > > A friend gave me a 75 gallon tank. It has a melted top and the lids > wont fit right. I bought a replacement top the only problem is I cant > get the top molding off to replace it. Does anyone have any ideas. I > ran a razor blade down both sides, inside and out and that didnt work. > > Sign FRUSTRATED > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28901	From: Anndrea	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Re: Lonnng post... (Bettas)

> Some info on the tanks would be great - what size, are they heated/filtered, how often is the water changed... Well, the betta that doesn't move around much is in a 5 gallon hexagon tank...no plants (fake or real) at the moment...a sunken ship, filter, light, and bubbles. He gets his tank vacuumed about every 5 days and it drains about a gallon to do it...lots of food laying on the bottom so I don't think he is eating very much, if at all. The other fish (that I'm not so worried about but still wondering what the blackness is) is in this plastic terrarium thing that one of them came in...he is in about 2.5 or 3 gallons of water. Has a small filter in there too. No fake or real plants in there either. I don't vacuum his tank much since he eats all his food. > Bettas are not the speediest of fish, but not moving at all and not responding to stimuli is bad. IMO the cramped quarters they're often seen in makes people think they just float around or lay on the bottom all day. My crowntail is in a 5 gallon hex and he's constantly exploring all levels of the tank. Sure, he rests on plants or the substrate once in awhile - which is normal. I keep the tank at 80 degrees (77-82 or therabouts is what I've seen recommended so 80 hits the sweet spot) and give the tank the standard weekly 20-25%  water change. My tanks are at about 80 degrees, too. The fish I am more worried about (in the 5 gallon hex) will either hide under the sunken ship or behind the box on the filter that hangs into the tank. I hardly ever see him. He does not come up/out to eat that I see...he could be after I turn the light off, or after I walk away...I dunno. >Do they eat reliably? They can be picky eaters, as well (though mine isn't and I really have to exercise restraint and not overfeed!) One does, one doesn't. I put in a small pinch of Betta food (has red flakes and tiny off white worm looking things in it...very few worms) the fish in the plastic 2.5-3 gallon tank eats all his food. The betta in the 5 gallon hex...I have no idea...but the food does accumulate at the bottom of the tank (oh and neither tank has rocks in it). I was thinking if I change the decoration in the tank of the hiding betta, so he has to either be out, or hide behind the filter box, maybe he'd eat...but I don't want him stressed with nowhere to hide either. thanks, and i hope that info helps :-) anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28902	From: pam andress	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Re: Hi All !!! New On The Site

I'm a sufferer too. I have running: 2-55 gal, 1-15 gal, 1-29 gal, 1-30 gal, 2-10 gal and 1-2 1/2 gal. I also have others not set up at the moment. If this is fatal, then so be it. ;) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: k8hardy@...: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:56:27 -0700Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hi All !!! New On The Site Hi Robert,I always laugh when I first see MTS as I think Malaysian Trumpet Snail. I guess you could say I suffer from MTS too with 11 tanks running and a couple more in the works. lol. Granted all of them, except one, are 10 gallons or under. Welcome!Kate----- Original Message ----From: robert_bussey <robert_bussey@...>To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSent: Friday, August 1, 2008 3:31:00 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] Hi All !!! New On The SiteHi all,My name is Robert and I'm from Cape Town South Africa.I'm one of those people who suffer from "MTS" <multiple tank syndrome>I currently have 4 Fresh water tanks ranging from 30 litres to 120 litres and I'm still busy building a custom tank that will hold +- 600 litres of water (this will be a planted discus tank).[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28903	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: Re: Hi All !!! New On The Site

Hi Robert, I have a bad bad case of MTS. I am running over 30 tanks and bought 4 more last night. The gentleman that sold me the four tanks last night wants me to come by tonight and buy a 4th tank. I have no willpower, I think I am going to go buy it. Welcome aboard. -Mike Hi all, My name is Robert and I'm from Cape Town South Africa. I'm one of those people who suffer from "MTS" <multiple tank syndrome> I currently have 4 Fresh water tanks ranging from 30 litres to 120 litres and I'm still busy building a custom tank that will hold +- 600 litres of water (this will be a planted discus tank). -----Original Message----- From: robert_bussey <robert_bussey@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 2:31 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi All !!! New On The Site Hi all, My name is Robert and I'm from Cape Town South Africa. I'm one of those people who suffer from "MTS" <multiple tank syndrome> I currently have 4 Fresh water tanks ranging from 30 litres to 120 litres and I'm still busy building a custom tank that will hold +- 600 litres of water (this will be a planted discus tank). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28904	From: Matt	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: pic's of my 30 gallon

hey guys and gals, if any of you are interested, i just posted some pictures of my 30 gallon tank on Flickr. i am waiting for glue to dry for my cork so i can attach my Java moss to it,, (thanks Kevin Stringer!) anyone else have pics of their tanks? im always lookin for new ideas to try! thanx!! .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28905	From: Matt	Date: 8/1/2008
Subject: pic's of my 30 gallon

hey guys and gals, if any of you are interested, i just posted some pictures of my 30 gallon tank on Flickr. i am waiting for glue to dry for my cork so i can attach my Java moss to it,, (thanks Kevin Stringer!) www.flickr.com/photos/mattmusky anyone else have pics of their tanks? im always lookin for new ideas to try! thanx!! .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28906	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: pic's of my 30 gallon

Here are 3 of mine. http://bp3.blogger.com/_ICvHWHdgCDU/SGVHMiKmW4I/AAAAAAAAAOc/4y-oQKGpUo0/s400/IMG_2944.JPG http://bp1.blogger.com/_ICvHWHdgCDU/SGVFQI-qXnI/AAAAAAAAANk/tczhFrrIyKs/s400/IMG_3555.JPG http://a1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/76/l_4c22c5458ad89d4c9461263dff69cd00.jpg Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 7:22:04 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] pic's of my 30 gallon hey guys and gals, if any of you are interested, i just posted some pictures of my 30 gallon tank on Flickr. i am waiting for glue to dry for my cork so i can attach my Java moss to it,, (thanks Kevin Stringer!) www.flickr.com/ photos/mattmusky anyone else have pics of their tanks? im always lookin for new ideas to try! thanx!! .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28907	From: Angel	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair

I was thinking of some sort of heat but thought a torch was a bad idea. Yours is  a great idea.  Now I just have to find one.  ----- Original Message ---- From: Jackie Huey <dreamsteeds@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 6:52:53 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New with a ? about tank repair If you have a heat gun you may be able to soften the plastic enough to free it.. I use one regularly to customize plastic models. Jackie, new member in CA --- wellrimdangel <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> wrote: > A friend gave me a 75 gallon tank. It has a melted > top and the lids > wont fit right. I bought a replacement top the only > problem is I cant > get the top molding off to replace it. Does anyone > have any ideas. I > ran a razor blade down both sides, inside and out > and that didnt work. > > Sign FRUSTRATED > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Jackie Huey Dreamsteeds@ sbcglobal. net http://community. webshots. com/user/ jackiehuey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28908	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair

Well, I got mine at Wally's a few years back, in the paint dept. for around $30.00. Jackie --- Angel <wellrimdangel@...> wrote: > I was thinking of some sort of heat but thought a > torch was a bad idea. Yours is  a great idea.  Now I > just have to find one.  > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jackie Huey <dreamsteeds@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 6:52:53 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New with a ? about tank > repair > > > If you have a heat gun you may be able to soften the > plastic enough to free it.. I use one regularly to > customize plastic models. > Jackie, new member in CA > > --- wellrimdangel <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > A friend gave me a 75 gallon tank. It has a melted > > top and the lids > > wont fit right. I bought a replacement top the > only > > problem is I cant > > get the top molding off to replace it. Does anyone > > have any ideas. I > > ran a razor blade down both sides, inside and out > > and that didnt work. > > > > Sign FRUSTRATED > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the > > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Jackie Huey > Dreamsteeds@ sbcglobal. net > http://community. webshots. com/user/ jackiehuey > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Jackie Huey Dreamsteeds@... http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28909	From: Rafael O. Murillo	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair

nevo dude here, hola all. i found a tank that was thrown out by pets mart. it was part of the display and it was over 50 gallons. the reason it was discarded: i has a crack on the bottom of the tank. the crack is by the the tank filter system is in line with all the others on the display. i brought the large tank home and repaired it with automotive clear rtv silicone. did alot of prep and cleaning. remove the internal coner tank it had that was made of clear plexi glass. blocked off the bottome drain. where the crack originated and sealed it up with a plug. i only fill it half way, as i use it for my turtle and a few fish. the crack was about 65% of the width on 1/4 of corner of the tank.its been a year all good this is my one only expirence in tank repair --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jackie Huey <dreamsteeds@...> wrote: > > Well, I got mine at Wally's a few years back, in the > paint dept. for around $30.00. > Jackie > > --- Angel <wellrimdangel@...> wrote: > > > I was thinking of some sort of heat but thought a > > torch was a bad idea. Yours is  a great idea.  Now I > > just have to find one.  > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Jackie Huey <dreamsteeds@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 6:52:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New with a ? about tank > > repair > > > > > > If you have a heat gun you may be able to soften the > > plastic enough to free it.. I use one regularly to > > customize plastic models. > > Jackie, new member in CA > > > > --- wellrimdangel <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > A friend gave me a 75 gallon tank. It has a melted > > > top and the lids > > > wont fit right. I bought a replacement top the > > only > > > problem is I cant > > > get the top molding off to replace it. Does anyone > > > have any ideas. I > > > ran a razor blade down both sides, inside and out > > > and that didnt work. > > > > > > Sign FRUSTRATED > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28910	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair

Hey, good find, Rafael! It's kinda sad to think about all the good stuff that gets tossed so the stores can collect their insurance. You were resourceful and now have a nice habitat for your turtle. Jackie --- "Rafael O. Murillo" <rm84z28@...> wrote: > nevo dude here, hola all. i found a tank that was > thrown out by > pets > mart. it was part of the display and it was over 50 > gallons. the > reason it was discarded: i has a crack on the bottom > of the tank. > the crack is by the the tank filter system is in > line with > all the others on the display. i brought the large > tank home and > repaired it with > automotive clear rtv silicone. did alot of prep and > cleaning. remove > the internal coner tank it had that was made of > clear plexi glass. > blocked off the bottome drain. where > the crack originated and sealed it up with a plug. i > only fill it > half way, as i > use it for my turtle and a few fish. the crack was > about 65% of the > width on 1/4 of corner of the tank.its been a year > all good this is > my one only expirence in tank repair --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jackie Huey > <dreamsteeds@...> wrote: > > > > Well, I got mine at Wally's a few years back, in > the > > paint dept. for around $30.00. > > Jackie > > > > --- Angel <wellrimdangel@...> wrote: > > > > > I was thinking of some sort of heat but thought > a > > > torch was a bad idea. Yours is  a great idea.  > Now I > > > just have to find one.  > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > From: Jackie Huey <dreamsteeds@...> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 6:52:53 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New with a ? about > tank > > > repair > > > > > > > > > If you have a heat gun you may be able to soften > the > > > plastic enough to free it.. I use one regularly > to > > > customize plastic models. > > > Jackie, new member in CA > > > > > > --- wellrimdangel <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > A friend gave me a 75 gallon tank. It has a > melted > > > > top and the lids > > > > wont fit right. I bought a replacement top the > > > only > > > > problem is I cant > > > > get the top molding off to replace it. Does > anyone > > > > have any ideas. I > > > > ran a razor blade down both sides, inside and > out > > > > and that didnt work. > > > > > > > > Sign FRUSTRATED > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Jackie Huey Dreamsteeds@... http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28911	From: Angel	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair

Heat didnt seem to work for me but i didnt get to the store for a heat gun.  I did get brave and take a pair of vice grips and rip the top off from the inside piece by piece.  Then it pulled up from the other side.  I did do  a few sections of cutting.  I didnt break the tank and I am very happy to have it removed. Thanks again for your ideas. Angel in Pa ----- Original Message ---- From: Jackie Huey <dreamsteeds@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2008 1:36:30 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New with a ? about tank repair Well, I got mine at Wally's a few years back, in the paint dept. for around $30.00. Jackie --- Angel <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> wrote: > I was thinking of some sort of heat but thought a > torch was a bad idea. Yours is  a great idea.  Now I > just have to find one.  > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jackie Huey <dreamsteeds@ sbcglobal. net> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 6:52:53 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New with a ? about tank > repair > > > If you have a heat gun you may be able to soften the > plastic enough to free it.. I use one regularly to > customize plastic models. > Jackie, new member in CA > > --- wellrimdangel <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > A friend gave me a 75 gallon tank. It has a melted > > top and the lids > > wont fit right. I bought a replacement top the > only > > problem is I cant > > get the top molding off to replace it. Does anyone > > have any ideas. I > > ran a razor blade down both sides, inside and out > > and that didnt work. > > > > Sign FRUSTRATED > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸..><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the > > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Jackie Huey > Dreamsteeds@ sbcglobal. net > http://community. webshots. com/user/ jackiehuey > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Jackie Huey Dreamsteeds@ sbcglobal. net http://community. webshots. com/user/ jackiehuey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28912	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: New with a ? about tank repair

Gads, that sounds pretty hairy. Congrats on the successful result. Jackie/CA --- Angel <wellrimdangel@...> wrote: > Heat didnt seem to work for me but i didnt get to > the store for a heat gun.  I did get brave and take > a pair of vice grips and rip the top off from the > inside piece by piece.  Then it pulled up from the > other side.  I did do  a few sections of cutting.  I > didnt break the tank and I am very happy to have it > removed. > Thanks again for your ideas. > Angel in Pa > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jackie Huey <dreamsteeds@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2008 1:36:30 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New with a ? about tank > repair > > > Well, I got mine at Wally's a few years back, in the > paint dept. for around $30.00. > Jackie > > --- Angel <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I was thinking of some sort of heat but thought a > > torch was a bad idea. Yours is  a great idea.  Now > I > > just have to find one.  > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Jackie Huey <dreamsteeds@ sbcglobal. net> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 6:52:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New with a ? about tank > > repair > > > > > > If you have a heat gun you may be able to soften > the > > plastic enough to free it.. I use one regularly to > > customize plastic models. > > Jackie, new member in CA > > > > --- wellrimdangel <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > > A friend gave me a 75 gallon tank. It has a > melted > > > top and the lids > > > wont fit right. I bought a replacement top the > > only > > > problem is I cant > > > get the top molding off to replace it. Does > anyone > > > have any ideas. I > > > ran a razor blade down both sides, inside and > out > > > and that didnt work. > > > > > > Sign FRUSTRATED > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > > when replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸..><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > > the > > > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jackie Huey > > Dreamsteeds@ sbcglobal. net > > http://community. webshots. com/user/ jackiehuey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the > > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Jackie Huey > Dreamsteeds@ sbcglobal. net > http://community. webshots. com/user/ jackiehuey > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Jackie Huey Dreamsteeds@... http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28913	From: vivian bradish	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right

I am going to purchase a Pleco. I have seen posts on here about them and having hiding places or drift wood. Is it necessary to purchase real driftwood or will artificial do? Also, should there be one or two i.e. do they do better alone or with a tank mate? Thanks, Vivian

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28914	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right

Vivian, Wood appears to play an important role in their general health. Real wood is the way to go with plecos. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 6:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right I am going to purchase a Pleco. I have seen posts on here about them and having hiding places or drift wood. Is it necessary to purchase real driftwood or will artificial do? Also, should there be one or two i.e. do they do better alone or with a tank mate? Thanks, Vivian

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28915	From: Matt	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right

i might think it determine on how big the tank is, and if you have an alge problem. anyone else? i just have one in my 30 gallon, and hes happy as can be. .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: vivian bradish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 6:44 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right I am going to purchase a Pleco. I have seen posts on here about them and having hiding places or drift wood. Is it necessary to purchase real driftwood or will artificial do? Also, should there be one or two i.e. do they do better alone or with a tank mate? Thanks, Vivian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28916	From: Wendie	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right

It depends on the pleco. Not all plecos need wood in their diet. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 7:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right Vivian, Wood appears to play an important role in their general health. Real wood is the way to go with plecos. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 6:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right I am going to purchase a Pleco. I have seen posts on here about them and having hiding places or drift wood. Is it necessary to purchase real driftwood or will artificial do? Also, should there be one or two i.e. do they do better alone or with a tank mate? Thanks, Vivian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28917	From: pam andress	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right

Plecos can be by themselves with no problems. The problems CAN happen in too small a tank with males. I have a 55 gal with 3 females and 2 males and lots of hiding places. They are fine so far, but they are also still young and these are Bristle nose plecos, so they do not get big. You need to know the size of your tank and what kind of pleco you want to get. Some are meat eaters and some are veggie eaters. They don't just eat the algae. Plecos do need some type of wood to chew on. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: viv32117@...: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 22:44:54 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right I am going to purchase a Pleco. I have seen posts on here about them and having hiding places or drift wood. Is it necessary to purchase real driftwood or will artificial do?Also, should there be one or two i.e. do they do better alone or with a tank mate?Thanks,Vivian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28918	From: Angel	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right

U dont have to have drift wood but if it is for the pleco they knaw on the drift wood.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28919	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right

It depends on the species but most plecos actually gnaw on the driftwood as part of their diet... guess they need lots of fiber. There are a couple of commonly available dwarf species like the Clown Pleco and Bristle Nosed Pleco and then there are the "Common" Pleco's where can be one of a few species which get VERY BIG... 18"+ so they need lots of tank (over 75G+). I've always owned only one per tank and I've seen some pretty vicious fights (videos posted in forums over the years) between male plecos over territory... especially during mating... so it might be best to only get one and even for one of the dwarf species, you'll need at least a 30G+ sized tank since they get to around 5"-6" but are wide bodied. They also need a lot more to eat than just algae and driftwood. I regularly give mine zucchini slices, algae thins (which are actually 40-50% protein also) and when you decide to get one, let me know and I'll give you a couple of links to full articles on things to feed your pleco. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 5:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right I am going to purchase a Pleco. I have seen posts on here about them and having hiding places or drift wood. Is it necessary to purchase real driftwood or will artificial do? Also, should there be one or two i.e. do they do better alone or with a tank mate? Thanks, Vivian _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080802-0, 08/02/2008 Tested on: 8/2/2008 10:49:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28920	From: caroline	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: pic's of my 30 gallon

loved your tank....so green and wonderful. caroline At 08:06 AM 8/2/2008, you wrote: >Here are 3 of mine. > ><http://bp3.blogger.com/_ICvHWHdgCDU/SGVHMiKmW4I/AAAAAAAAAOc/4y-oQKGpUo0/s400/IMG_2944.JPG>http://bp3.blogger.com/_ICvHWHdgCDU/SGVHMiKmW4I/AAAAAAAAAOc/4y-oQKGpUo0/s400/IMG_2944.JPG > >http://bp1.blogger.com/_ICvHWHdgCDU/SGVFQI-qXnI/AAAAAAAAANk/tczhFrrIyKs/s400/IMG_3555.JPG > ><http://a1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/76/l_4c22c5458ad89d4c9461263dff69cd00.jpg>http://a1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/76/l_4c22c5458ad89d4c9461263dff69cd00.jpg > >Kate > >----- Original Message ---- >From: Matt <<mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net>mattmusky@...> >To: <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 7:22:04 PM >Subject: [AquaticLife] pic's of my 30 gallon > >hey guys and gals, if any of you are interested, >i just posted some pictures of my 30 gallon tank >on Flickr. i am waiting for glue to dry for my >cork so i can attach my Java moss to it,, (thanks Kevin Stringer!) > >www.flickr.com/ photos/mattmusky > >anyone else have pics of their tanks? im always >lookin for new ideas to try! thanx!! > >.·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> >Matt Musky > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28921	From: Wendy Myers	Date: 8/2/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right

Hello! Actually, I've had great success with my common Pleco just giving him algae wafers and a product made by the company Sera that includes Alder wood and another type of wood in sinking wafer form that gives him his allowance of wood cravings and makes him very happy. I've also tried sliced cucumber, sweet potato and zuchinni for a varied diet, but he hasn't eaten any of it. I've had him for a little over 5 months now and I have yet to purchase driftwood to put in my 30 gallon tank that houses him. Good luck! Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: Vivian, Wood appears to play an important role in their general health. Real wood is the way to go with plecos. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 6:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Plecostamus, I hope I spelled that right I am going to purchase a Pleco. I have seen posts on here about them and having hiding places or drift wood. Is it necessary to purchase real driftwood or will artificial do? Also, should there be one or two i.e. do they do better alone or with a tank mate? Thanks, Vivian Wendy A. Myers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28922	From: james	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: my kids and a frog

Hey folks my kids have a frog that lives in my pond. My thing is i want to move it into the house just not sure how to take care of it,and what to feed it? Any info is helpful and greatly appreciated...thanks james

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28923	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: my kids and a frog

Do you know what kind of frog? Some of the "pet" frogs stay small (ADF's), others get big (ACF's) and then there are all kinds of wild frogs that range in size up to bullfrogs which get HUGE. If you do a Google Image search for 'native species of frogs in (your City/State)', you'll likely find photos and be able to identify it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of james Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 10:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] my kids and a frog Hey folks my kids have a frog that lives in my pond. My thing is i want to move it into the house just not sure how to take care of it,and what to feed it? Any info is helpful and greatly appreciated...thanks james _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080803-0, 08/03/2008 Tested on: 8/3/2008 11:16:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28924	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: green beard algae

I think I have determined that I have green beard algae. It's rather quite pretty - but it is covering my large mangrove root in my 55 gallon. Any suggestions for keeping it in check so it doesn't spread? I have a moderately planted tank with these algae type eating fish : flying foxes, pletcostumus but no SAE's which I think would help from the reading I've been doing. No CO2 injection. Lights are on about 10-12 hours a day - is that too much? I've also read that the Neritina sp. Zebra snail would be useful for controlling this algae...any comments on that? I've also read that floating plants help such as duck weed - I do have duck weed, but once a week when I do my PWC I take out a lot of it since it really seems to multiply quickly - is that a mistake? This tank has been running for about 5 months. Once again, thanks for any information you can share with me! Shari Rivenburg

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28925	From: james	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: my kids and a frog

not sure it may be a tree frog but it lives in my "pond" that the girls use as a pool. i dont keep anything in there just water so the kids can play in it. I change the water alot but with the frog i dont want to change the water and the girls dont want to swim with a frog (lol) but i will try the google thing --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Do you know what kind of frog? Some of the "pet" frogs stay small (ADF's), > others get big (ACF's) and then there are all kinds of wild frogs that range > in size up to bullfrogs which get HUGE. If you do a Google Image search for > 'native species of frogs in (your City/State)', you'll likely find photos > and be able to identify it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of james > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 10:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] my kids and a frog > > Hey folks my kids have a frog that lives in my pond. My thing is i want to > move it into the house just not sure how to take care of it,and what to feed > it? Any info is helpful and greatly appreciated...thanks james > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080803-0, 08/03/2008 > Tested on: 8/3/2008 11:16:07 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28926	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: green beard algae

Mine disappeared in two tanks, and I used two different remedies. There is a bristlenose pleco in one and I planted vallisneria in the other. I had crypts and java fern in the planted tank already, but the vallisneria took care of the beard algae. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 12:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] green beard algae I think I have determined that I have green beard algae. It's rather quite pretty - but it is covering my large mangrove root in my 55 gallon. Any suggestions for keeping it in check so it doesn't spread? I have a moderately planted tank with these algae type eating fish : flying foxes, pletcostumus but no SAE's which I think would help from the reading I've been doing. No CO2 injection. Lights are on about 10-12 hours a day - is that too much? I've also read that the Neritina sp. Zebra snail would be useful for controlling this algae...any comments on that? I've also read that floating plants help such as duck weed - I do have duck weed, but once a week when I do my PWC I take out a lot of it since it really seems to multiply quickly - is that a mistake? This tank has been running for about 5 months. Once again, thanks for any information you can share with me! Shari Rivenburg [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28927	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: pic's of my 30 gallon

What is the plant in the second picture? It is very pretty. I just started my first planted tank today and all I could find at the local petco was an Argentinean sword. Do you buy your plants locally or on line? Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28928	From: chris.2033	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: SIZE of TANKS for 20 long

I have a stand for a 20gallon long -what other size tank will fit it /its like 30x12 thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28929	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: SIZE of TANKS for 20 long

_http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/size-chart.html_ (http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/size-chart.html) In a message dated 8/3/2008 1:20:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, chris.2033@... writes: I have a stand for a 20gallon long -what other size tank will fit it /its like 30x12 thanks **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28930	From: chris.2033	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: my kids and a frog

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "james" <jamesewerjr@...> wrote: >you can start with crickets and if you dont have a tank yet try a storage container > Hey folks my kids have a frog that lives in my pond. My thing is i want > to move it into the house just not sure how to take care of it,and what > to feed it? Any info is helpful and greatly appreciated...thanks james >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28931	From: Matt	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Big problem

hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28932	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Not to sound snide or patronizing, but this is what happens when you mess with your water chemistry. The pH of the water is held by a buffer, once this buffer is "broken", the pH can drop precipitously. Thus far, you do not seem to be into too much trouble, other than the rapid shift in pH which may affect some fish. Adding the Rid-Ich+ is not going to be helping you. What you need to do is to make several 10-15% water changes over the next several days to bring your pH back up to more normal levels, slowly, so the fish are not shocked again by a rapid rise in pH. FWIW, pH is not that important to most fish. They can tolerate a much wider variation that is often given in the books. When pH is important is with some species of fish, and you are not likely to find these at your local fish emporium, and, possibly, for successful breeding of your fish. If you are going to place a lot of importance on your pH, then you should be choosing your fish based on the pH you have, rather than trying to make the pH suitable for the fish you want. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 4:01 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28933	From: Angel	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH?  ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28934	From: Angel	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: SIZE of TANKS for 20 long

I am not sure if my tanks is a 29 or 30 gallon but it fits on the same stand as a 20 long. ----- Original Message ---- From: chris.2033 <chris.2033@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 3:37:07 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] SIZE of TANKS for 20 long I have a stand for a 20gallon long -what other size tank will fit it /its like 30x12 thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28935	From: Matt	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed really well,.... .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Angel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH? ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28936	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

This sort of thing is why I explained about ph swings and the fact that public water supplies are often buffered to tend to always return to and stay at certain levels. I think I urged you to have a talk with someone at your public water quality lab before you did something else. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt" <mattmusky@...> To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 3:01 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28937	From: Kurt Johnston	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: ACLC Swap Meet Announcement

Hello Group Members, I wanted to let everyone in the group know about the upcoming Aquatic Swap Meet in Lancaster, PA. Whether you are interested in selling or buying this will be a great deal and space is limited. For me details you can go to the Club website at http://aclc.us and click on the Swap Meet button or email me. Thanks Kurt Johnston Aquarium Club of Lancaster County <http://www.aclc.us/> BAP / Public Relations/Swap Meet Chairman Webmaster

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28938	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: my kids and a frog

Only thing I'd tell you is to follow the same rules as with fish. My sister, brother in law, and nephews are trying their hand at raising frog eggs into frogs. When I was out there a couple of weeks ago, the water was white and stank, there was a huge pile of something rotting at the bottom of the goldfish bowl, and the two surviving tadpoles were at the top gasping for air. I pointed this out to my sister - who allowed my mother to die of undiagnosed diabetic kidney failure despite both diabetes and having had her bladder removed. Fault was shared by my mother to be sure, but that's what I'm up against. Sister said, "They're fine!" I kept telling them they have to change the water and feed only a small amount and brother in law sai"d ""But theywant to feed them alot!"" Seems the water went bad all of a sudden that day - no clue how that happened, now really. If I ever don't want my fish tank anymore guess who won't get it. Anyway, tadpoles, like fish, need clean dechlorinated water and not to be overfed. I would tend to think that as they begin to grow legs and lungs they'll need something to climb out on. A frog, I would think, would need the same - plus something to climb out on. I'm sure if you google caring for frogs you'll learn much. One thing - is the frog going to let them catch it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "james" <jamesewerjr@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 10:46 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] my kids and a frog Hey folks my kids have a frog that lives in my pond. My thing is i want to move it into the house just not sure how to take care of it,and what to feed it? Any info is helpful and greatly appreciated...thanks james ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28939	From: Matt	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

funny thing about that, i dont have city water, i live on the side of a mountain with a well. .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem This sort of thing is why I explained about ph swings and the fact that public water supplies are often buffered to tend to always return to and stay at certain levels. I think I urged you to have a talk with someone at your public water quality lab before you did something else. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt" <mattmusky@...> To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 3:01 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28940	From: Angel	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

I havent tried it but i read on a good fish sight that u should soak wild plants in bleach for one week and it wont kill them to treat it before adding it to the tank.  Did the moss come from an established tank?  This could be your problem. ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 7:06:42 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed really well,..... .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> ..·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Angel To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH? ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28941	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Soaking plants in bleach for that length of time will not only kill anything on the plants, but the plants themselves. If there is a need to ensure your plants are green, you can give them a bath in a solution of potassium permanganate or alum for 5-10 minutes. His problem with the pH is not the introduction of the java moss, but the fact that he managed to break the buffer of the water with his addition of pH Down, or whatever the product was. The solution is, as I stated, to do water changes of 10-15% daily, until the pH rises to its normal level. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem I havent tried it but i read on a good fish sight that u should soak wild plants in bleach for one week and it wont kill them to treat it before adding it to the tank.  Did the moss come from an established tank?  This could be your problem. ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 7:06:42 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed really well,..... .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> ..·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Angel To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH? ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28942	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

A well! Heh, heh, heh. Could be it has natural buffering of some sort. Did you have to file a report with some agency on what is in your water? If so it should tell you certain hardness and alkalinity numbers, and what natural buffering agents might be in the water, if there is alot of one sort of ion, and that sort of thing. You can do some of this testing with aquarium testing kits you can get. A better idea would be to ahve proper water testing done - if it wasn't done because it was required by law. In Texas everyone has to file complete reports on even their backyard wells. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt" <mattmusky@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem funny thing about that, i dont have city water, i live on the side of a mountain with a well. .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem This sort of thing is why I explained about ph swings and the fact that public water supplies are often buffered to tend to always return to and stay at certain levels. I think I urged you to have a talk with someone at your public water quality lab before you did something else. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt" <mattmusky@...> To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 3:01 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28943	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Looks like a buffering thing to me too. That'll get it back to its normal level, but it may not be the fastest solution. And if it swung back it may now be at its normal level. I'd want to know specifically what is going on, personally. A proper water quality report would explain it, if there is one or if it's worth it to him to get his water tested properly. Knowing what is going on can suggest solutions as well as explain the problem, and you know what to do not to do it again. I mean, if you want to normalize the ph of my water, all you have to do is blow carbon dioxide through it! Even the water quality lab people knew that! This is because they artificially mess with the ph and leave it extremely high. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:23 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big problem Soaking plants in bleach for that length of time will not only kill anything on the plants, but the plants themselves. If there is a need to ensure your plants are green, you can give them a bath in a solution of potassium permanganate or alum for 5-10 minutes. His problem with the pH is not the introduction of the java moss, but the fact that he managed to break the buffer of the water with his addition of pH Down, or whatever the product was. The solution is, as I stated, to do water changes of 10-15% daily, until the pH rises to its normal level. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem I havent tried it but i read on a good fish sight that u should soak wild plants in bleach for one week and it wont kill them to treat it before adding it to the tank. Did the moss come from an established tank? This could be your problem. ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 7:06:42 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed really well,..... .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> ..·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Angel To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH? ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28944	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Testing the alkalinity of the water will give one an idea of the buffering capability of the water. This is not the same as the alkaline water reference when the pH is high. That is really a misnomer, and it is more correct to refer to the acidity or baseness of the water. A higher pH means that the water is more base, not alkaline. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem A well! Heh, heh, heh. Could be it has natural buffering of some sort. Did you have to file a report with some agency on what is in your water? If so it should tell you certain hardness and alkalinity numbers, and what natural buffering agents might be in the water, if there is alot of one sort of ion, and that sort of thing. You can do some of this testing with aquarium testing kits you can get. A better idea would be to ahve proper water testing done - if it wasn't done because it was required by law. In Texas everyone has to file complete reports on even their backyard wells. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt" <mattmusky@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem funny thing about that, i dont have city water, i live on the side of a mountain with a well. .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem This sort of thing is why I explained about ph swings and the fact that public water supplies are often buffered to tend to always return to and stay at certain levels. I think I urged you to have a talk with someone at your public water quality lab before you did something else. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt" <mattmusky@...> To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 3:01 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28945	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: my kids and a frog

Well you're probably looking at more of a paludarium instead of an aquarium since most frogs are NOT fully aquatic frogs so it will need some land mass, tree branches, etc. African Dwarf Frogs and African Clawed Frogs are two truly aquatic frogs that live underwater that are fairly common and I'm sure there are others. Here's a page with some DIY info on creating a paludarium. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g_construct.htm A Google will find many other DIY sites on creating a paludarium. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of james Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 12:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: my kids and a frog not sure it may be a tree frog but it lives in my "pond" that the girls use as a pool. i dont keep anything in there just water so the kids can play in it. I change the water alot but with the frog i dont want to change the water and the girls dont want to swim with a frog (lol) but i will try the google thing --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Do you know what kind of frog? Some of the "pet" frogs stay small (ADF's), > others get big (ACF's) and then there are all kinds of wild frogs that range > in size up to bullfrogs which get HUGE. If you do a Google Image search for > 'native species of frogs in (your City/State)', you'll likely find photos > and be able to identify it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of james > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 10:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] my kids and a frog > > Hey folks my kids have a frog that lives in my pond. My thing is i want to > move it into the house just not sure how to take care of it,and what to feed > it? Any info is helpful and greatly appreciated...thanks james > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080803-0, 08/03/2008 Tested on: 8/3/2008 10:19:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28946	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: SIZE of TANKS for 20 long

A 29G and a 37G both have the same footprint but are simply taller tanks.. 18" and 22" respectively compared to only 12" for the 20G long. While those tanks have 33% to 45% more water volume, it doesn't mean you have that many more fish since you are still stuck with the same surface area and bottom area but the 29G or 37G would be nicer tanks for a single angelfish along with some tank mates. Or you could take a 48" x 12" x 1" thick oak board (or other sturdy wood) and fasten it to the 30" x 12" top of the stand and then you'd have a stand for a 55G tank. Is the stand an iron stand or wood? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris.2033 Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 2:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] SIZE of TANKS for 20 long I have a stand for a 20gallon long -what other size tank will fit it /its like 30x12 thanks _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080803-0, 08/03/2008 Tested on: 8/3/2008 10:30:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28947	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Hi Steve, I did not know we get that far into chemistry here as I would have made the same mistake. Can you elaborate on why a base water characteristic is not the same as alkaline. I took regular chemistry as well as Organic and after all these years, I don't remember the differences. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Steve Szabo wrote: > > Testing the alkalinity of the water will give one an idea of the > buffering capability of the water. This is not the same as the > alkaline water reference when the pH is high. That is really a > misnomer, and it is more correct to refer to the acidity or baseness > of the water. A higher pH means that the water is more base, not alkaline. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > A well! Heh, heh, heh. Could be it has natural buffering of some sort. > Did you have to file a report with some agency on what is in your water? > If so it should tell you certain hardness and alkalinity numbers, and > what > natural buffering agents might be in the water, if there is alot of > one sort > of ion, and that sort of thing. > > You can do some of this testing with aquarium testing kits you can get. A > better idea would be to ahve proper water testing done - if it wasn't > done > because it was required by law. In Texas everyone has to file complete > reports on even their backyard wells. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt" <mattmusky@... <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:41 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > funny thing about that, i dont have city water, i live on the side of a > mountain with a well. > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dora Smith > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:05 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > This sort of thing is why I explained about ph swings and the fact that > public water supplies are often buffered to tend to always return to and > stay at certain levels. I think I urged you to have a talk with someone at > your public water quality lab before you did something else. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt" <mattmusky@... <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net>> > To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 3:01 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh > water > tank. > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because > it > was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the > pH > was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water > sorce > pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all > this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours > or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > help please!? > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28948	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

With pH, there is 7.0 (neutral) and then there are lower pH (acidic/acid) and higher pH (basic/base). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-base_reaction_theories The pH down type product is an acid which reacted with the basic chemical substances in the water which then caused the pH crash. I'm not sure when and where the word "alkaline" or "alkalinity" came into being misused when talking about higher pH levels but unfortunately I see it misused in many website articles and even some aquarium related magazine articles. I think that someone, somewhere wanted a new word to describe the higher pH levels rather than calling them "basic" since the word "basic" is more commonly used when describing basic things not related to pH. Another reason is that alkaline chemical agents (salts, calcium carbonate, limestone, etc.) did raise the pH of the water so a basic water with a pH above 7.0 usually also has higher levels of alkaline substances in the water... but not always. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline explains that alkali is a "basic" (high pH) ionic salt of an alkali metal or alkaline earth metal element. Alkalis are best known for being bases. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_(chemistry) In chemistry, a base is most commonly thought of as an aqueous substance that can accept protons. This refers to the Brønsted-Lowry theory of acids and bases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-base_reaction_theories#The_protonic_.28Br .C3.B8nsted-Lowry.29_definition). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem Hi Steve, I did not know we get that far into chemistry here as I would have made the same mistake. Can you elaborate on why a base water characteristic is not the same as alkaline. I took regular chemistry as well as Organic and after all these years, I don't remember the differences. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Steve Szabo wrote: > > Testing the alkalinity of the water will give one an idea of the > buffering capability of the water. This is not the same as the > alkaline water reference when the pH is high. That is really a > misnomer, and it is more correct to refer to the acidity or baseness > of the water. A higher pH means that the water is more base, not alkaline. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > A well! Heh, heh, heh. Could be it has natural buffering of some sort. > Did you have to file a report with some agency on what is in your water? > If so it should tell you certain hardness and alkalinity numbers, and > what natural buffering agents might be in the water, if there is alot > of one sort of ion, and that sort of thing. > > You can do some of this testing with aquarium testing kits you can > get. A better idea would be to ahve proper water testing done - if it > wasn't done because it was required by law. In Texas everyone has to > file complete reports on even their backyard wells. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt" <mattmusky@... <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net> > <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:41 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > funny thing about that, i dont have city water, i live on the side of > a mountain with a well. > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dora Smith > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:05 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > This sort of thing is why I explained about ph swings and the fact > that public water supplies are often buffered to tend to always return > to and stay at certain levels. I think I urged you to have a talk with > someone at your public water quality lab before you did something else. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt" <mattmusky@... <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net> > <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net>> > To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 3:01 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh > water tank. > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, > because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i > checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water > change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank > rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have > ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now > treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > help please!? > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080803-0, 08/03/2008 Tested on: 8/3/2008 10:56:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28949	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Thanks Lenny, Gives me some material to study in my spare time. Some of us do care about the details. I guess that is what make people Engineers? Sam, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > With pH, there is 7.0 (neutral) and then there are lower pH (acidic/acid) > and higher pH (basic/base). > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-base_reaction_theories > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-base_reaction_theories> The pH down > type > product is an acid which reacted with the basic chemical substances in the > water which then caused the pH crash. > > I'm not sure when and where the word "alkaline" or "alkalinity" came into > being misused when talking about higher pH levels but unfortunately I > see it > misused in many website articles and even some aquarium related magazine > articles. I think that someone, somewhere wanted a new word to > describe the > higher pH levels rather than calling them "basic" since the word > "basic" is > more commonly used when describing basic things not related to pH. Another > reason is that alkaline chemical agents (salts, calcium carbonate, > limestone, etc.) did raise the pH of the water so a basic water with a pH > above 7.0 usually also has higher levels of alkaline substances in the > water... but not always. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline> explains that alkali is a "basic" > (high pH) ionic salt of an alkali metal or alkaline earth metal element. > Alkalis are best known for being bases. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_ > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_>(chemistry) In chemistry, a base > is most > commonly thought of as an aqueous substance that can accept protons. This > refers to the Brønsted-Lowry theory of acids and bases > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-base_reaction_theories#The_protonic_.28Br > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-base_reaction_theories#The_protonic_.28Br> > .C3.B8nsted-Lowry.29_definition). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Sam Palermo > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > Hi Steve, > I did not know we get that far into chemistry here as I would have > made the > same mistake. Can you elaborate on why a base water characteristic is not > the same as alkaline. > I took regular chemistry as well as Organic and after all these years, I > don't remember the differences. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Testing the alkalinity of the water will give one an idea of the > > buffering capability of the water. This is not the same as the > > alkaline water reference when the pH is high. That is really a > > misnomer, and it is more correct to refer to the acidity or baseness > > of the water. A higher pH means that the water is more base, not > alkaline. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > A well! Heh, heh, heh. Could be it has natural buffering of some sort. > > Did you have to file a report with some agency on what is in your water? > > If so it should tell you certain hardness and alkalinity numbers, and > > what natural buffering agents might be in the water, if there is alot > > of one sort of ion, and that sort of thing. > > > > You can do some of this testing with aquarium testing kits you can > > get. A better idea would be to ahve proper water testing done - if it > > wasn't done because it was required by law. In Texas everyone has to > > file complete reports on even their backyard wells. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Matt" <mattmusky@... <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net> > <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net> > > <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net>> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > funny thing about that, i dont have city water, i live on the side of > > a mountain with a well. > > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dora Smith > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > This sort of thing is why I explained about ph swings and the fact > > that public water supplies are often buffered to tend to always return > > to and stay at certain levels. I think I urged you to have a talk with > > someone at your public water quality lab before you did something else. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Matt" <mattmusky@... <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net> > <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net> > > <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net>> > > To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 3:01 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh > > water tank. > > > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, > > because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i > > checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water > > change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank > > rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have > > ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now > > treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > > > help please!? > > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080803-0, 08/03/2008 > Tested on: 8/3/2008 10:56:41 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: green beard algae

What are your nitrate levels like before you do your weekly PWC? Also ammonia and nitrite. Are you doing weekly filter maintenance also (long article in my blog)? Are you vacuuming your substrate where ever you do not have plants? Since you are getting a lot of algae and duckweed, you should leave the duckweed growing as it will help suck up some of the nitrates/phosphates that are feeding your algae problem. It will also block out some of the lighting which will further slow down your algae growth. What kind of fish and how many and what size are they? Do not add more of a bioload to your tank (snails, etc.) until you figure out what is causing the problem now. Do you have the common habit of over-feeding the fish? Algae (and Duck Weed) is actually God's way of trying to keep the ecology of the tank in balance. If there wasn't a food source for the algae, then it wouldn't grow. As long as there are excess nitrates, phosphates, etc., then the algae will flourish to help suck them up. After you have removed the food source(s) for the algae, then you could cut back on the lighting and it will slowly die back. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] green beard algae I think I have determined that I have green beard algae. It's rather quite pretty - but it is covering my large mangrove root in my 55 gallon. Any suggestions for keeping it in check so it doesn't spread? I have a moderately planted tank with these algae type eating fish : flying foxes, pletcostumus but no SAE's which I think would help from the reading I've been doing. No CO2 injection. Lights are on about 10-12 hours a day - is that too much? I've also read that the Neritina sp. Zebra snail would be useful for controlling this algae...any comments on that? I've also read that floating plants help such as duck weed - I do have duck weed, but once a week when I do my PWC I take out a lot of it since it really seems to multiply quickly - is that a mistake? This tank has been running for about 5 months. Once again, thanks for any information you can share with me! Shari Rivenburg _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080803-0, 08/03/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 1:52:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28951	From: H3ATH3R	Date: 8/3/2008
Subject: Re: my kids and a frog

I just made my son put a bullfrog back outside tonight. He begged to put it in with our RES turtle but I am just not wanting a noisy bullfrog (it was a male too) in the house in with a turtle that we already have to clean up after every couple days are so. He is messy and his tank gets yuck quick, even with a filter...lol. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] my kids and a frog Only thing I'd tell you is to follow the same rules as with fish. My sister, brother in law, and nephews are trying their hand at raising frog eggs into frogs. When I was out there a couple of weeks ago, the water was white and stank, there was a huge pile of something rotting at the bottom of the goldfish bowl, and the two surviving tadpoles were at the top gasping for air. I pointed this out to my sister - who allowed my mother to die of undiagnosed diabetic kidney failure despite both diabetes and having had her bladder removed. Fault was shared by my mother to be sure, but that's what I'm up against. Sister said, "They're fine!" I kept telling them they have to change the water and feed only a small amount and brother in law sai"d ""But theywant to feed them alot!"" Seems the water went bad all of a sudden that day - no clue how that happened, now really. If I ever don't want my fish tank anymore guess who won't get it. Anyway, tadpoles, like fish, need clean dechlorinated water and not to be overfed. I would tend to think that as they begin to grow legs and lungs they'll need something to climb out on. A frog, I would think, would need the same - plus something to climb out on. I'm sure if you google caring for frogs you'll learn much. One thing - is the frog going to let them catch it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "james" <jamesewerjr@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 10:46 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] my kids and a frog Hey folks my kids have a frog that lives in my pond. My thing is i want to move it into the house just not sure how to take care of it,and what to feed it? Any info is helpful and greatly appreciated...thanks james ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28952	From: tillmanalbany	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28953	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Yes, this is definitely a problem whereby the buffering capacity has been broken, as Steve has indicated. However, it should be pointed out that blowing CO2 through the water WILL NOT "normalize" the pH, whatever is meant by you by this term, unless by "normalize," you mean acidify. Blowing carbon dioxide through the water will only serve to create carbonic acid (H2CO2), a weak solution of a dibasic acid and will not help in any manner related to this problem. Likewise, the suggestion by someone else that adding aquatic plants, in this case Java Moss, would have anything to do with a Ph crash or jump is totally erroneous. While your advice, as everyone else's (including our newcomer's), is most appreciated on this Group, I'd ask that our contributors please refrain from making suggestions (guesses) unless you actually KNOW what you are stating as being fact. Help is ALWAYS appeciated, but only if its "helpful" (LOL). Otherwise, misinformation only causes confusion (or worse problems). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Looks like a buffering thing to me too. > > That'll get it back to its normal level, but it may not be the fastest > solution. And if it swung back it may now be at its normal level. > > I'd want to know specifically what is going on, personally. A proper water > quality report would explain it, if there is one or if it's worth it to him > to get his water tested properly. > > Knowing what is going on can suggest solutions as well as explain the > problem, and you know what to do not to do it again. > > I mean, if you want to normalize the ph of my water, all you have to do is > blow carbon dioxide through it! Even the water quality lab people knew > that! This is because they artificially mess with the ph and leave it > extremely high. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:23 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > Soaking plants in bleach for that length of time will not only kill anything > on the plants, but the plants themselves. If there is a need to ensure your > plants are green, you can give them a bath in a solution of potassium > permanganate or alum for 5-10 minutes. His problem with the pH is not the > introduction of the java moss, but the fact that he managed to break the > buffer of the water with his addition of pH Down, or whatever the product > was. The solution is, as I stated, to do water changes of 10-15% daily, > until the pH rises to its normal level. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Angel > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > I havent tried it but i read on a good fish sight that u should soak wild > plants in bleach for one week and it wont kill them to treat it before > adding it to the tank. Did the moss come from an established tank? This > could be your problem. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Matt <mattmusky@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 7:06:42 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed really > well,..... > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> ..·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Angel > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH? > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water > tank. > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it > was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH > was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce > pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all > this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours > or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > help please!? > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28954	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Matt, For starters, I'll get right to the point and ask first, what makes you think a pH of 7.6 is "high"? (and why would you want to change it?). I don't know what fish you are keeping, but most of our "average" community-type aquarium fish will do just fine at that pH. As has already been pointed out, your problem is testimony to exactly what can happen when unnecessarily messing with your pH, again not meaning to be crass. There is no need to fool around with your pH (unless perhaps you are bredding certain fish that may require something different), as most aquarium fish will adjust to a range of conditions -- and this is NOT extreme (AT ALL). This is a typical example though, of what a hobbyist may expect by adding chemicals un-needingly. You should learn to work with the water conditions that you have, and when you do, these types of problems will be non-existant; and your fish will adjust. Not to mention -- using your tap water will make it so much easier for you, and will be so much easier on your fish if they continually receive the same consistant water conditions when making PWC's (partial water changes). I'll address just what's going in in my follow-up post. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > help please!? > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28955	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Alkalinity is a measurement of the buffering capacity of water or the capacity of bases to neutralize acids. When it is used in conjunction with water, it refers to the capacity the water has to resist a change in the pH. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 10:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem Hi Steve, I did not know we get that far into chemistry here as I would have made the same mistake. Can you elaborate on why a base water characteristic is not the same as alkaline. I took regular chemistry as well as Organic and after all these years, I don't remember the differences. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Steve Szabo wrote: > > Testing the alkalinity of the water will give one an idea of the > buffering capability of the water. This is not the same as the > alkaline water reference when the pH is high. That is really a > misnomer, and it is more correct to refer to the acidity or baseness > of the water. A higher pH means that the water is more base, not alkaline. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > A well! Heh, heh, heh. Could be it has natural buffering of some sort. > Did you have to file a report with some agency on what is in your water? > If so it should tell you certain hardness and alkalinity numbers, and > what > natural buffering agents might be in the water, if there is alot of > one sort > of ion, and that sort of thing. > > You can do some of this testing with aquarium testing kits you can get. A > better idea would be to ahve proper water testing done - if it wasn't > done > because it was required by law. In Texas everyone has to file complete > reports on even their backyard wells. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt" <mattmusky@... <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:41 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > funny thing about that, i dont have city water, i live on the side of a > mountain with a well. > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dora Smith > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:05 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > This sort of thing is why I explained about ph swings and the fact that > public water supplies are often buffered to tend to always return to and > stay at certain levels. I think I urged you to have a talk with someone at > your public water quality lab before you did something else. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt" <mattmusky@... <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net>> > To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 3:01 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh > water > tank. > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because > it > was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the > pH > was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water > sorce > pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all > this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours > or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > help please!? > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28956	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Okay Matt, Let's get to the bottom of just what's going on with your water, so that you can understand it, but I would like to reiterate that pH 7.6 is not unduly high and should be of little concern. I'll begin by addressing your tap water. Most well water has a concentration of CO2 which, when you first take a reading of it, will indicate a pH of lower than its "normal" pH level. A "normal" pH level of your well water is when this CO2 has been off-gased. Only adfter that time, will you get a true (normal) pH reading of your water. Before this CO2 is off-gased, your water will always read lower in pH. Your addition of pH Down broke the alklinity (buffering capacity -- KH) of you water, which appears (without having any test results) to possibily be on the low - moderate side. By replacing 25% of this water, you of course removed 25% of the pH Down you just put in, and at the same time increased the buffering capacity of this unit (tankful) of water as a whole (note: not increased the actual buffering capacity of the water, which is constant), since the proportion of the pH down and the tank water is now expotentially reduced. This now raised (rebounded) the pH of the water to above the breaking point of its buffering capacity once again, with the addition of fresh unadulterated water (at its normal alkalinity). Again, please do nor confuse "alkalinity" (buffering capacity) with a basic pH, as has already been clarified. As you're now experiencing, this type of stress can cause illnesses in your fish. As they've been stressed enough with this drastic pH jump, there's no reaon to stress them more by added chemicals again. The most effective (and less stressful) way of treating Ich is by using the heat & slat treatment, raising the tempoerature to at least 86 o and adding 1 Tbs. of salt per 5 gallons to the water. Ich cannot reproduce above 86 o, and its population will soon die off. Keep this treatment going for a period of about 10 days -- or until 2 days after you see no more signs of the Ich on your fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > help please!? > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28957	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

Fish selection for a novice is fairly broad, and would depend on the kind of water you have. You do not mention pH or hardness, so it is difficult to make a good selection which you could choose from. Also, you say nothing of your interests in fish. Are you looking for color, behavior aspects of the fish, or what? You still have plenty of time to make the selection, as you need to get the nitrogen (biological) cycle started before adding fish to the tank. Search this list and the web for "fishless cycling" to learn more about it. This is the hardest part for the novice, you will have the tank sitting for some time with no fish in it while you are growing the needed organisms to help you maintain your tank. Fortunately, if you decide to go with live plants, you can have the plants in the tank, getting established, while the tank is cycling. The use of live plants or other decorations is a personal decision. You might want to skip live plants for the time being while you are learning about keeping fish, or you may choose to also learn about live plants at the same time because they will help to remove a byproduct of the cycle, nitrates, that, allowed to build up, can harm your fish. So, go ahead, set up the tank tomorrow, and start cycling it according to the instructions you now have in hand after doing the research I suggest, and start reading here and elsewhere about how to keep fish. It would not harm you to actually buy a book, such as the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1, to have handy for reference. Ask us questions that will most certainly come to mind while doing your homework. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28958	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Hi Sam, You will quickly learn (if you haven't already), whether you're a newcomer or an experienced hobbyist, that when delving into this hobby there are many related facets of it to explore (which will only add to your interest in them), some more closely related to others, but all having direct bearings on our charges. The interest (s) you take with your fish can/will take you on many tangents, but all coming back to what you're overseeing in your tanks. The extent of your interest(s) in these tangents will make you more prepared for successfully keeping these fish. Water chemistry is germain to keeping fish, and this basic knowledge will help you immeasureably so in maintaining your fish less problematically as you'll know what to expect from the consequences or benefits of your actions with it. It pays to take a broader interest in most things directly related to fish if you have any real interest in keeping them, and you'll find that they'll help broaden these horizons for you; this usually comes with a natural interest in them anyway. This can include (but not limit) you to geography, history, geology, meteorology, chemistry, language, physiology, psychology and husbandry. That is, where these fish come from, their evolution, their habitat, the weather where they're found, the make-up of their water, their scientific names and meanings (in Latin and Greek), their physical make-up, their behavior and their breeding. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sam Palermo <skywavebe@...> wrote: > > Hi Steve, > I did not know we get that far into chemistry here as I > would have made the same mistake. Can you elaborate on why > a base water characteristic is not the same as alkaline. > I took regular chemistry as well as Organic and after all these > years, I don't remember the differences. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Testing the alkalinity of the water will give one an idea of the > > buffering capability of the water. This is not the same as the > > alkaline water reference when the pH is high. That is really a > > misnomer, and it is more correct to refer to the acidity or baseness > > of the water. A higher pH means that the water is more base, not alkaline. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > A well! Heh, heh, heh. Could be it has natural buffering of some sort. > > Did you have to file a report with some agency on what is in your water? > > If so it should tell you certain hardness and alkalinity numbers, and > > what > > natural buffering agents might be in the water, if there is alot of > > one sort > > of ion, and that sort of thing. > > > > You can do some of this testing with aquarium testing kits you can get. A > > better idea would be to ahve proper water testing done - if it wasn't > > done > > because it was required by law. In Texas everyone has to file complete > > reports on even their backyard wells. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Matt" <mattmusky@... <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net>> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > funny thing about that, i dont have city water, i live on the side of a > > mountain with a well. > > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > > Matt Musky > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dora Smith > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > This sort of thing is why I explained about ph swings and the fact that > > public water supplies are often buffered to tend to always return to and > > stay at certain levels. I think I urged you to have a talk with someone at > > your public water quality lab before you did something else. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Matt" <mattmusky@... <mailto:mattmusky%40prodigy.net>> > > To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife% 40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 3:01 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh > > water > > tank. > > > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because > > it > > was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the > > pH > > was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water > > sorce > > pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all > > this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours > > or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > > > help please!? > > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > > Matt Musky > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28959	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

Be careful to shield the tank if you use any sprays in the kitchen (cleaners, cooking spray, etc.). _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Fish selection for a novice is fairly broad, and would depend on the kind of water you have. You do not mention pH or hardness, so it is difficult to make a good selection which you could choose from. Also, you say nothing of your interests in fish. Are you looking for color, behavior aspects of the fish, or what? You still have plenty of time to make the selection, as you need to get the nitrogen (biological) cycle started before adding fish to the tank. Search this list and the web for "fishless cycling" to learn more about it. This is the hardest part for the novice, you will have the tank sitting for some time with no fish in it while you are growing the needed organisms to help you maintain your tank. Fortunately, if you decide to go with live plants, you can have the plants in the tank, getting established, while the tank is cycling. The use of live plants or other decorations is a personal decision. You might want to skip live plants for the time being while you are learning about keeping fish, or you may choose to also learn about live plants at the same time because they will help to remove a byproduct of the cycle, nitrates, that, allowed to build up, can harm your fish. So, go ahead, set up the tank tomorrow, and start cycling it according to the instructions you now have in hand after doing the research I suggest, and start reading here and elsewhere about how to keep fish. It would not harm you to actually buy a book, such as the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1, to have handy for reference. Ask us questions that will most certainly come to mind while doing your homework. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:38 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28960	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

My apologies to you hobbyists, and to you water chemists especially, for any confusion in regard my typo error of the chemical symbol for carbonic acid. I had intended to write (correctly), HO2CO3 as the abbreviation for this acidified water via this gas, but regretfully found I "automatically" used "CO2" as the suffix by mistake. A normal 25% PWC using properly heated well water of a pH of 7.0 of a tank of pH 7.6 extant water, drawn down to 75% capacity will have little effect on the water chemistry even if it does temporarily decrease the pH by two tenths of a point. This has nil effect on the fish and can help to invigorate them (since it's not at all extreme). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Yes, this is definitely a problem whereby the buffering capacity has > been broken, as Steve has indicated. However, it should be pointed > out that blowing CO2 through the water WILL NOT "normalize" the pH, > whatever is meant by you by this term, unless by "normalize," you > mean acidify. Blowing carbon dioxide through the water will only > serve to create carbonic acid (H2CO2), a weak solution of a dibasic > acid and will not help in any manner related to this problem. > Likewise, the suggestion by someone else that adding aquatic plants, > in this case Java Moss, would have anything to do with a Ph crash or > jump is totally erroneous. > > While your advice, as everyone else's (including our newcomer's), is > most appreciated on this Group, I'd ask that our contributors please > refrain from making suggestions (guesses) unless you actually KNOW > what you are stating as being fact. Help is ALWAYS appeciated, but > only if its "helpful" (LOL). Otherwise, misinformation only causes > confusion (or worse problems). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > Looks like a buffering thing to me too. > > > > That'll get it back to its normal level, but it may not be the > fastest > > solution. And if it swung back it may now be at its normal level. > > > > I'd want to know specifically what is going on, personally. A > proper water > > quality report would explain it, if there is one or if it's worth > it to him > > to get his water tested properly. > > > > Knowing what is going on can suggest solutions as well as explain > the > > problem, and you know what to do not to do it again. > > > > I mean, if you want to normalize the ph of my water, all you have > to do is > > blow carbon dioxide through it! Even the water quality lab > people knew > > that! This is because they artificially mess with the ph and > leave it > > extremely high. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:23 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > > > Soaking plants in bleach for that length of time will not only kill > anything > > on the plants, but the plants themselves. If there is a need to > ensure your > > plants are green, you can give them a bath in a solution of > potassium > > permanganate or alum for 5-10 minutes. His problem with the pH is > not the > > introduction of the java moss, but the fact that he managed to > break the > > buffer of the water with his addition of pH Down, or whatever the > product > > was. The solution is, as I stated, to do water changes of 10-15% > daily, > > until the pH rises to its normal level. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Angel > > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > I havent tried it but i read on a good fish sight that u should > soak wild > > plants in bleach for one week and it wont kill them to treat it > before > > adding it to the tank. Did the moss come from an established tank? > This > > could be your problem. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Matt <mattmusky@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 7:06:42 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > > > the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed > really > > well,..... > > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> ..·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > > Matt Musky > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Angel > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your > PH? > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> > > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon > Fresh water > > tank. > > > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, > because it > > was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, > and the pH > > was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the > water sorce > > pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top > of all > > this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about > 6 hours > > or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > > > help please!? > > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > > Matt Musky > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28961	From: Matt	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

well i bought the moss from the local petshop. they had it for awhile, and i think there were fish in the same tank. i did not know that plants from a tank with fish are a bad thing. this morning looking at them, 7:00 am they are all still alive, the light is off, so i cant really see how the ich is doing, but they look to be swimming better than yesterday! i am going to continue with the water changes, but am going to try from a diffrent sorce. should i take the java moss out? also i added another airstone to the tank yesterday to help airate the water more. .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Angel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem I havent tried it but i read on a good fish sight that u should soak wild plants in bleach for one week and it wont kill them to treat it before adding it to the tank. Did the moss come from an established tank? This could be your problem. ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 7:06:42 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed really well,..... .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> ..·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Angel To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH? ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28962	From: Matt	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

ok, thanks ray for all the info it took me several times reading it to digest everthing. so here goes my explaniation of my thoughts. first, i have no test results for my water supply, except i do know, that i have brook river water coming into the well, coming through a 300+ foot piece of PVC pipe, going into a water tank, then through 200+ year old copper pipes. so from the well it does not have any chlorine in it, or anthing esle except natrural stuff... but who knows what with the piping and such/ 2ndly i notice that the pH level is lower in the winter time, and higher in the summer. 3rdly, everyone else i have talked to is woundering how i mange to keep my fish, in such a high pH tank, i have a few diffrent types of tetras, a guppy, and a plecco. all of witch i have had scince i set up the tank. so i guess i should of listend to my instinct and motto of "if it aint broke' dont fix it" and just left the ph alone. the thing i was worried about was the introduction of new fish that i wanted to buy, so i have tryed to lower the pH. again cus everyone else i talked to, said before you add new fish, lower your pH. right as of now, the pH is back to 7.6. so here is what i propose to do. 1. keep with the 10% percent water changes untill the Ich goes away 2. raise the tempture 3. keep using the same water sorce 4. not add anymore pH down 5. hope for the best! LOL i said in a e-mail earlier, that everone looks better today so far, the ich seems to be alot better already. now one more question as i posted before, i added another airstone, to "attempt to lower the pH".... i read that in a book, i know more O2 is better, but does this really hold true? the other reason i put it in there was beacuse it looks pretty. lol .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28963	From: Angel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

These ?s really depend on the person. I say go for fresh water fish and we all learn from trial and error.  Real plants help balance your water. I have never had them except for my pond plants I bring in for the winter.  Well, not never. But my fish always ate mine.  0;) ----- Original Message ---- From: tillmanalbany <tillmanalbany@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 3:38:26 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28964	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: clubs in Philly/nj

Newby - I was happy to see the post from a Lancaster PA group, are there any groups in Philly (where I work) or southern NJ - closer than Freehold or Lancaster? It seems strange that no one in a large city keeps fish? Are there good places to shop for fish & supplies in Philladelphia, esp if accessible by public transportation? I take PATCO to work in center city. A sort of obscure question, I have set up / cycling a 55 gal, wanted to have some natural (brown) rock substrate, and some natural looking green. (not neon). I have been to everything near my home, which is Petco, Petsmart, Walmart <don't worry won't buy fish there>, and two non-chain pet stores and the closest I can get is a very artificial looking turquoise which looked even less natural under normal lighting at home. I've also looked at gardening places. Is there some reason why no one sells green gravel? I know the natural green minerals could have copper, but everything I have seen for sale other than brown is artificially colored anyway. I looked at getting some appropriate sized recycled green glass (tumbled) online but though I found several places that would sell me ten pounds for about 10 bucks, they all wanted like $40 for shipping which I thought was ridiculous for just a part of my tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28965	From: Angel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

I really dont think it would be the moss if it was in a tank with fish and theirs are doing fine.  Do u add fishtanks salts to relieve their stress level?  That might help with the ick too.  ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 7:35:40 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem well i bought the moss from the local petshop. they had it for awhile, and i think there were fish in the same tank. i did not know that plants from a tank with fish are a bad thing. this morning looking at them, 7:00 am they are all still alive, the light is off, so i cant really see how the ich is doing, but they look to be swimming better than yesterday! i am going to continue with the water changes, but am going to try from a diffrent sorce. should i take the java moss out? also i added another airstone to the tank yesterday to help airate the water more. .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Angel To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem I havent tried it but i read on a good fish sight that u should soak wild plants in bleach for one week and it wont kill them to treat it before adding it to the tank. Did the moss come from an established tank? This could be your problem. ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 7:06:42 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed really well,..... .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> ..·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Angel To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH? ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6..... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. help please!? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28966	From: wellrimdangel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Suggestion to Mod.

I was wondering if maybe u could add photos to recent activities list? It would be alot easier to know they exist and find them as they are posted then it is to go back and look for them. Thank for taking the time to read. 0:)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28967	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Hi Matt, As I stated earlier in response to your answer, to the question of whether you added anything new to your tank that would raise the pH, Jave Moss (or any plant) is not a concern for raising pH, so this was not your problem. If, on the otherhand, you feel that the addition of Java Moss may have infected your tank with Ich -- even though that was not the question that was asked of you -- know that Ich is ever-present in most aquarium water, residing in a latent state. Healthy fish are never prone to infections by Ich, which only have the opportunity to infect fish in a weakened state. In your case, this weakened state of your fish was brought on by the extreme stress they were subjected to when their pH was suddenly reduced from 7.6 to 6.0 and then on top of that, bounced right back up again. Their plight was in trying to adjust to an extreme drop in pH and then just as suddenly try to re- adjust to a high Ph while in the process of adjusting to the drop. To answer a question that may be going through your mind right now, Ich does not reside in well water. Ich is introduced with any fish you add to your tank, since its almost always in aquarium water, and comes along for the ride not necessarily on any fish but with their water (even if you discard their original bag water). By their nature, fish are immersed in fish and are still wet when you transfer them to your tank. This is not to say that plants should not be disinfected before placing them in your tank -- they should. -- but transferring plants to your tank that came from a fish-inhabited environment is not the root cause of your fish getting Ich; they were stressed. I would not stress your fish more by now using a different water source. There is nothing wrong with your water, and additional water changes at this point (unless needed because of elevated ammonia or nitrite levels that we don't know about) will not aid in curing them of Ich. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: > > well i bought the moss from the local petshop. they had it for awhile, and i think there were fish in the same tank. i did not know that plants from a tank with fish are a bad thing. this morning looking at them, 7:00 am they are all still alive, the light is off, so i cant really see how the ich is doing, but they look to be swimming better than yesterday! i am going to continue with the water changes, but am going to try from a diffrent sorce. should i take the java moss out? also i added another airstone to the tank yesterday to help airate the water more. > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Angel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:55 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > I havent tried it but i read on a good fish sight that u should soak wild plants in bleach for one week and it wont kill them to treat it before adding it to the tank. Did the moss come from an established tank? This could be your problem. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Matt <mattmusky@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 7:06:42 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed really well,..... > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> ..·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Angel > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH? > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > help please!? > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28968	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Suggestion to Mod.

The "Recent Activity" section that shows up in HTML emails from the group is something that Yahoo controls. Group owners/moderators do not have any control over what is sent along with the actual message other than a header or footer. BUT... If you go to the photos page of the group http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos and click on the "List" View, there is a column for sorting by "Last Modified" so you can see the folders that were "last modified" which does serve the purpose. Your folder is at the top of that list right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wellrimdangel Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Suggestion to Mod. I was wondering if maybe u could add photos to recent activities list? It would be alot easier to know they exist and find them as they are posted then it is to go back and look for them. Thank for taking the time to read. 0:) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:20:26 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28969	From: Matt	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

ok, i get what your saying, and thank you. the light has been on for a bit now and none of the fish seem to have any ich on them at all. they seem to be back to normal, all of their colors are nice and bright again! so i shouldnt do a water change today? add the rid-ich? dont add it? leve it all be? im thinking of getting some more plants today.. bad idea to add them right away? or am i pretty much in the clear..? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:18 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem Hi Matt, As I stated earlier in response to your answer, to the question of whether you added anything new to your tank that would raise the pH, Jave Moss (or any plant) is not a concern for raising pH, so this was not your problem. If, on the otherhand, you feel that the addition of Java Moss may have infected your tank with Ich -- even though that was not the question that was asked of you -- know that Ich is ever-present in most aquarium water, residing in a latent state. Healthy fish are never prone to infections by Ich, which only have the opportunity to infect fish in a weakened state. In your case, this weakened state of your fish was brought on by the extreme stress they were subjected to when their pH was suddenly reduced from 7.6 to 6.0 and then on top of that, bounced right back up again. Their plight was in trying to adjust to an extreme drop in pH and then just as suddenly try to re- adjust to a high Ph while in the process of adjusting to the drop. To answer a question that may be going through your mind right now, Ich does not reside in well water. Ich is introduced with any fish you add to your tank, since its almost always in aquarium water, and comes along for the ride not necessarily on any fish but with their water (even if you discard their original bag water). By their nature, fish are immersed in fish and are still wet when you transfer them to your tank. This is not to say that plants should not be disinfected before placing them in your tank -- they should. -- but transferring plants to your tank that came from a fish-inhabited environment is not the root cause of your fish getting Ich; they were stressed. I would not stress your fish more by now using a different water source. There is nothing wrong with your water, and additional water changes at this point (unless needed because of elevated ammonia or nitrite levels that we don't know about) will not aid in curing them of Ich. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: > > well i bought the moss from the local petshop. they had it for awhile, and i think there were fish in the same tank. i did not know that plants from a tank with fish are a bad thing. this morning looking at them, 7:00 am they are all still alive, the light is off, so i cant really see how the ich is doing, but they look to be swimming better than yesterday! i am going to continue with the water changes, but am going to try from a diffrent sorce. should i take the java moss out? also i added another airstone to the tank yesterday to help airate the water more. > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Angel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:55 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > I havent tried it but i read on a good fish sight that u should soak wild plants in bleach for one week and it wont kill them to treat it before adding it to the tank. Did the moss come from an established tank? This could be your problem. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Matt <mattmusky@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 7:06:42 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed really well,..... > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> ..·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Angel > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH? > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > help please!? > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

Hi Peggy, I have a page on my fish blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and near the top of that list, I have two different free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and give you a lot more questions to ask out here. ;-) The main thing you want to do is "Fishless Cycle" your tank to make it safe for your fish before you bring them home. There are a couple of ways to do this listed on that A to Z page. There are also products like Bio-Spira or it's successor, "Dr. Tim's One And Only" http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html which you can use to "instantly" cycle the tank. As you take one or both of those free tutorials, you can be fishless cycling your tank and that will give you the time to go to your local stores to see what fish are available that you like. Once you have some in mind, go to http://fish.mongabay.com and put in the common name or Latin name (preferred) and look at the profile/care sheet on that fish to make sure it's compatible with your local water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:35:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28971	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Matt, Before I go any further, I would like to stress that pH 7.6 is not (repeat: NOT) that high in the least as properly maintaining your Tetras, except perhaps if you want to breed them, and then I even question whether it is. I have no idea who your "everyone else" is who has advised you to lowerr your pH, except to say they're obviously not that knowledgeable (and I'm not trying to knock them). You've no doubt come here to receive proper guidance, which we're trying to offer you. If you choose not to believe us, then you might want to consider obtaining a reliable source of literature on fish keeping, such as the Baensch aquarium guide, which will tell you the same thing (and which any serious hobbyist should invest in anyway). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: > > ok, thanks ray for all the info it took me several times reading it to digest everthing. so here goes my explaniation of my thoughts. > > first, i have no test results for my water supply, except i do know, that i have brook river water coming into the well, coming through a 300+ foot piece of PVC pipe, going into a water tank, then through 200+ year old copper pipes. so from the well it does not have any chlorine in it, or anthing esle except natrural stuff... but who knows what with the piping and such/ > 2ndly i notice that the pH level is lower in the winter time, and higher in the summer. > 3rdly, everyone else i have talked to is woundering how i mange to keep my fish, in such a high pH tank, i have a few diffrent types of tetras, a guppy, and a plecco. all of witch i have had scince i set up the tank. so i guess i should of listend to my instinct and motto of "if it aint broke' dont fix it" and just left the ph alone. the thing i was worried about was the introduction of new fish that i wanted to buy, so i have tryed to lower the pH. again cus everyone else i talked to, said before you add new fish, lower your pH. > > right as of now, the pH is back to 7.6. > > so here is what i propose to do. > 1. keep with the 10% percent water changes untill the Ich goes away > 2. raise the tempture > 3. keep using the same water sorce > 4. not add anymore pH down > 5. hope for the best! LOL > > i said in a e-mail earlier, that everone looks better today so far, the ich seems to be alot better already. > > now one more question as i posted before, i added another airstone, to "attempt to lower the pH".... i read that in a book, i know more O2 is better, but does this really hold true? the other reason i put it in there was beacuse it looks pretty. lol > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28972	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Are you sure you had Ich? It looks like the affected fish were sprinkled with salt in the worse case images. If you did have Ich, then follow the directions on the Rid-Ich product as the life cycle of Ich can be up to a couple of weeks depending on what is being done to treat the problem. I wouldn't add anything else to your tank until you have the fish 100% healthy again so they'll be better able to fight off any new bacteria introduced with the plants. Also read up on how to pre-treat plants to disinfect them before adding them to your tank. Even with the pre-treatment, there's still a chance of something getting in but if your fish have healthy immune systems, they'll usually be able to fend off any problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem ok, i get what your saying, and thank you. the light has been on for a bit now and none of the fish seem to have any ich on them at all. they seem to be back to normal, all of their colors are nice and bright again! so i shouldnt do a water change today? add the rid-ich? dont add it? leve it all be? im thinking of getting some more plants today.. bad idea to add them right away? or am i pretty much in the clear..? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:18 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem Hi Matt, As I stated earlier in response to your answer, to the question of whether you added anything new to your tank that would raise the pH, Jave Moss (or any plant) is not a concern for raising pH, so this was not your problem. If, on the otherhand, you feel that the addition of Java Moss may have infected your tank with Ich -- even though that was not the question that was asked of you -- know that Ich is ever-present in most aquarium water, residing in a latent state. Healthy fish are never prone to infections by Ich, which only have the opportunity to infect fish in a weakened state. In your case, this weakened state of your fish was brought on by the extreme stress they were subjected to when their pH was suddenly reduced from 7.6 to 6.0 and then on top of that, bounced right back up again. Their plight was in trying to adjust to an extreme drop in pH and then just as suddenly try to re- adjust to a high Ph while in the process of adjusting to the drop. To answer a question that may be going through your mind right now, Ich does not reside in well water. Ich is introduced with any fish you add to your tank, since its almost always in aquarium water, and comes along for the ride not necessarily on any fish but with their water (even if you discard their original bag water). By their nature, fish are immersed in fish and are still wet when you transfer them to your tank. This is not to say that plants should not be disinfected before placing them in your tank -- they should. -- but transferring plants to your tank that came from a fish-inhabited environment is not the root cause of your fish getting Ich; they were stressed. I would not stress your fish more by now using a different water source. There is nothing wrong with your water, and additional water changes at this point (unless needed because of elevated ammonia or nitrite levels that we don't know about) will not aid in curing them of Ich. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: > > well i bought the moss from the local petshop. they had it for awhile, and i think there were fish in the same tank. i did not know that plants from a tank with fish are a bad thing. this morning looking at them, 7:00 am they are all still alive, the light is off, so i cant really see how the ich is doing, but they look to be swimming better than yesterday! i am going to continue with the water changes, but am going to try from a diffrent sorce. should i take the java moss out? also i added another airstone to the tank yesterday to help airate the water more. > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Angel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:55 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > I havent tried it but i read on a good fish sight that u should soak wild plants in bleach for one week and it wont kill them to treat it before adding it to the tank. Did the moss come from an established tank? This could be your problem. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Matt <mattmusky@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 7:06:42 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed really well,..... > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> ..·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Angel > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH? > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > help please!? > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:55:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28973	From: Angel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Suggestion to Mod.

Darn. Ok thank u.  I belong to agardenwithwater@yahoogroups.com and they had this feature.  I was hoping. Thanks for your help. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 10:20:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Suggestion to Mod. The "Recent Activity" section that shows up in HTML emails from the group is something that Yahoo controls. Group owners/moderators do not have any control over what is sent along with the actual message other than a header or footer. BUT... If you go to the photos page of the group http://pets. ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos and click on the "List" View, there is a column for sorting by "Last Modified" so you can see the folders that were "last modified" which does serve the purpose. Your folder is at the top of that list right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of wellrimdangel Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:09 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Suggestion to Mod. I was wondering if maybe u could add photos to recent activities list? It would be alot easier to know they exist and find them as they are posted then it is to go back and look for them. Thank for taking the time to read. 0:) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:20:26 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28974	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Taking your steps one at a time, there is nothing at all wrong with brook water, unless it comes from (or through) an undesireable source. Other than that, its perfectly suitable. You should invest in basic test kits for the simpler (yet important) water parameter tests, either singularly or as one more complete master kit. In this way, you will be able to keep on top of most any situation when it comes to a question of your water chemistry. This info is often needed by us in efforts to advise you, should there be a related problem, if you can't interprete the problem yourself from the results. Copper pipe in itself is not the most desireable of aquarium water transporters, although being 200 years old it would not have any freshly exposed surface contacting the water. Too much copper though will stress your fish, although I doubt that's a problem you need to be concerned about. There are copper test kits that you can buy, even though they're not coinsidered as one of the more basic ones. Being from an above ground source, your water's pH will naturally fluctuate with the seasons due to differences in flow rate and amount of contact the water has with its stream-bed, in the time-frame of its flow at any given time -- and the level (depth) of the water contacting various pH inducing elements (rocks, gravel, etc.) during these fluctuating periods. This again is nothing to worry about; fish in their natural habitats are subject to these same influences. Right, "if it an't broke, don't fix it." I would still recommend some test kits, which you'll need in order to get to know your water's parameters at any time (and which come in handy when you do have a problem), as well as a good book or two. So yes, follow your instincts. As for adding any new fish in the future, since you have this concerne, you need to learn how to acclimate them to your water. This is done very slowly if need be (first, with determining the pH of both the fish store water and yours), then, after properly floating them to equalize the temperature, you can either "drip" them in, or add a small amount of your tank water to the fish bag every 10 or 15 minutes, while discarding a small amount of bag water -- until after 45 minutes to an hour, you can feel safe in adding the fish to your tank; the actual amount if time in acclimating depending upon the difference in pH. As pH is usually associated with hardness (although not necessarily and not always), this acclimation process will also ajust your fish to its new water hardness enviornment -- which is the more important factor here (even more so than the pH), as this influences the osmotic pressure -- a much more important detail to be concerned with. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: > > ok, thanks ray for all the info it took me several times reading it to digest everthing. so here goes my explaniation of my thoughts. > > first, i have no test results for my water supply, except i do know, that i have brook river water coming into the well, coming through a 300+ foot piece of PVC pipe, going into a water tank, then through 200+ year old copper pipes. so from the well it does not have any chlorine in it, or anthing esle except natrural stuff... but who knows what with the piping and such/ > 2ndly i notice that the pH level is lower in the winter time, and higher in the summer. > 3rdly, everyone else i have talked to is woundering how i mange to keep my fish, in such a high pH tank, i have a few diffrent types of tetras, a guppy, and a plecco. all of witch i have had scince i set up the tank. so i guess i should of listend to my instinct and motto of "if it aint broke' dont fix it" and just left the ph alone. the thing i was worried about was the introduction of new fish that i wanted to buy, so i have tryed to lower the pH. again cus everyone else i talked to, said before you add new fish, lower your pH. > > right as of now, the pH is back to 7.6. > > so here is what i propose to do. > 1. keep with the 10% percent water changes untill the Ich goes away > 2. raise the tempture > 3. keep using the same water sorce > 4. not add anymore pH down > 5. hope for the best! LOL > > i said in a e-mail earlier, that everone looks better today so far, the ich seems to be alot better already. > > now one more question as i posted before, i added another airstone, to "attempt to lower the pH".... i read that in a book, i know more O2 is better, but does this really hold true? the other reason i put it in there was beacuse it looks pretty. lol > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28975	From: vivian bradish	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Time to add a few fish, any suggestions

I have a 40 gallon, 4 coreys, 6 asst platys, 1 black skirt , he is old and huge ( gotta get him 2 friends) and I have some teeny tiny male endlers. I am tired of the tetras, although bleeding hearts and cardinals are pretty, I would like something peaceful and a little more exotic/interesting. Any suggestions. Viv

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28976	From: Matt	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

ok, thanks ray and lenny, i will contunue to monitor everything, and keep the pH at or around 7.6... thanks for all your help guys! .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:45 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem Matt, Before I go any further, I would like to stress that pH 7.6 is not (repeat: NOT) that high in the least as properly maintaining your Tetras, except perhaps if you want to breed them, and then I even question whether it is. I have no idea who your "everyone else" is who has advised you to lowerr your pH, except to say they're obviously not that knowledgeable (and I'm not trying to knock them). You've no doubt come here to receive proper guidance, which we're trying to offer you. If you choose not to believe us, then you might want to consider obtaining a reliable source of literature on fish keeping, such as the Baensch aquarium guide, which will tell you the same thing (and which any serious hobbyist should invest in anyway). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: > > ok, thanks ray for all the info it took me several times reading it to digest everthing. so here goes my explaniation of my thoughts. > > first, i have no test results for my water supply, except i do know, that i have brook river water coming into the well, coming through a 300+ foot piece of PVC pipe, going into a water tank, then through 200+ year old copper pipes. so from the well it does not have any chlorine in it, or anthing esle except natrural stuff... but who knows what with the piping and such/ > 2ndly i notice that the pH level is lower in the winter time, and higher in the summer. > 3rdly, everyone else i have talked to is woundering how i mange to keep my fish, in such a high pH tank, i have a few diffrent types of tetras, a guppy, and a plecco. all of witch i have had scince i set up the tank. so i guess i should of listend to my instinct and motto of "if it aint broke' dont fix it" and just left the ph alone. the thing i was worried about was the introduction of new fish that i wanted to buy, so i have tryed to lower the pH. again cus everyone else i talked to, said before you add new fish, lower your pH. > > right as of now, the pH is back to 7.6. > > so here is what i propose to do. > 1. keep with the 10% percent water changes untill the Ich goes away > 2. raise the tempture > 3. keep using the same water sorce > 4. not add anymore pH down > 5. hope for the best! LOL > > i said in a e-mail earlier, that everone looks better today so far, the ich seems to be alot better already. > > now one more question as i posted before, i added another airstone, to "attempt to lower the pH".... i read that in a book, i know more O2 is better, but does this really hold true? the other reason i put it in there was beacuse it looks pretty. lol > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Re%3A%201st%20Fresh%20Water%20Aquarium

Raven or is it K'lyn?, It's better to "Fishless Cycle" a tank rather than put some "starter fish" through the arduous nitrogen cycle process. While they may live, they will have much shorter lifespans due to having to live through high levels of ammonia/nitrite for several weeks while the tank cycles. One can either use plain ammonia to fishless cycle a tank in a few weeks or buy Dr. Tim's One And Only to fishless cycle the tank over night. Either of those are much better than "Cycling With Fish". The other GREAT thing about fishless cycling is that you can add a full load of juvenile fish to the tank from the start instead of having to add only a couple of fish every few weeks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Raven Mae [mailto:thee_raven2006@...] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:40 AM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Re%3A%201st%20Fresh%20Water%20Aquarium Hi Peggy, My husband and I set up our first fish tank back in Feburary and did it because it "sounded like fun". Oh my how addicting! We now have a 60 gallon, a 30 gallon both established and full of fish and a 10 gallon tank cycling and waiting for puffer fish. We probably didn't learn in the best way but mostly through reading books, searching the web, asking the guys at the fish stores we bought our fish from and a LOT thorugh trial and error. It's a lot of fun to watch your fish and it's rather calming. One of the BEST books I've ever found when it came to deciding which fish to keep (all of our tanks are freshwater for $$ reasons) is Adventure Aquarist Guide The 101 Best Tropical Fishes (How To Choose & Keep Hardy, Brilliant, Fascinating Species That Will Thrive In Your Home Aquarium PLUS 33 Species to Avoid) by Kathleen Wood LONG title but an excellent book especially for someone just starting out with fishkeeping. It gives you just about every single fish speices out there, whether they're community, semi agressive, or territorial, what size of tank they go in, what type of fish they're compatible with, how big they get, what they eat, where they hide, where they swim, and how long they live. To this day I still look at it when buying fish. If you choose to go the saltwater route they have a book for saltwater fish also with the same information. You don't really need live plants, they make plenty of fake ones that fish won't eat, however I do think live plants look pretty. You can move the fake ones around when you clean your tank and introduce new fish to distract the others. Use approximately 1 to 1.5 inches of gravel for each gallon of water and I don't know if you want to plan out your tank before you set it up but you can't change the color after you put the fish in there. =) You can change the plants and decorations though. I don't know if anyone on the Aquatic Life group explained how to cycle a tank (all of this was extremely confusing to me when I first started) but once you get your tank set up and you add declorinated water to it (use something like Stress Coat it takes 1 drop for every gallon of water and a small bottle lasts forever, rinse out a gallon milk jug REALLY well and use it for water changes, or a 5 gallon bucket or something like that) wait 24 hours and then add your starter fish. Starter fish are strong hardy fish that can withstand the bacteria cycles your water will go through. Danios are GREAT starter fish and can also be used as dither fish (fish that can pull shy fish out of hiding and get them to be more active). We've also used black skirted tetras and bettas (they live through everything) as starter fish. Ask your fish store, they should be able to tell you some other good ideas. Your tank will have to cycle for about a month if you don't use a bio product. If you do use a bio product you can start adding fish in about a week. Stress Zyme is fantastic for this but remember not to add your filter media (carbon filter) to the filter because it will take the stress zyme out of the tank and will have no effect until the 2nd dose. Then once your tank is cycled you can start adding fish a different set each week. If you add too many at one time your nitrate and ammonia levels go haywire and all your fish die. Clean your tank once a week about 15-25 percent, dig really well into the rock to get all the extra food. About every month or 2 do a really thorugh cleaning where you take your plants (if fake) and ornaments out and clean them with warm distilled water and a brush to get the algea off and clean the sides of the glass and your tank will stay crystal clear. If algea does start to become a problem the best thing you can do is keep the lights off and do daily water changes of 10-15 percent until it starts to clear up. Also Aquarium salt (not iodized or marine) is fantastic for fish who have health problems. Put 1 tsp per every 5 gallons in your tank and it helps to clear up ich, torn fins, open sores, etc. Though it's not a bad idea to have a hospital tank just in case though we've never really needed one. You can find 10 gallon tanks at garage sales like mad and baking soda or vinegar and a dish rag will clean them up like new and not hurt your fish. Never use any chemicals because the residue will kill them. Good luck and have fun! K'lyn ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 11:44:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 12:02:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: green beard algae

It looks like you have 0.0ppm nitrate but that you have 0.5ppm of ammonia... which you should not have in a tank that has been set up as long as yours. You might want to double check your ammonia test results and your nitrate test results. Of course, since you haven't done filter maintenance, your filter could be clogged up with detritus and it's causing your nitrogen cycle issues. Of course, I wonder if something happened to your biological filtration (the nitrogen cycle) since you are having 0.0ppm of nitrates where you should be getting a high nitrate level. Also check the dates on your API test kit since you are getting such strange numbers for your pH. Here's a site that explains the coding on the API bottles and other brands as well. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php You should either use the regular pH or the high pH test kit.. not both of them. If you use the regular and it reaches the top level, then use the high kit to get an accurate level. I doubt that your pH is 8.4 although you do have rather high GH and KH levels (which is a good thing in most cases). Of course, if your nitrogen cycle is acting up, that will cause your pH to bounce around a little also but I'm not comfortable with the numbers you've posted. You should do weekly or at the least, monthly filter maintenance depending on the bioload of a tank. Otherwise, all the stuff that the filter catches will start to break down and go into solution in your tank becoming "food" for algae (and plants, of course) and pollution to your fish. Yes, you have far too many BIG fish in your tank. The pleco, flying foxes, gouramis and clown loach are going to be way too much for your 54G tank. You should rehome the clown loach since they should be kept in groups of five or more and since they grow to over 12" and up to 16", folks need a 120G+ tank just for a group of them. If your pleco is a common pleco (the ones that get BIG), then you should rehome him also and maybe go with a dwarf species like a bristle nosed or clown pleco (there you go.. replace the clown loach and the common pleco with one fish of the same names..lol). The waste from your large bioload in your tank.. even with an extra large filter... needs to be removed so you should be doing weekly filter maintenance and you need to start keeping a log of before/after water test results (taken at the same time each time) so you can "learn" how your tank reacts to your maintenance schedule and you'll see when you need to increase maintenance as your fish grow. For larger fish, they actually grow by eight times, each time they double their length so a 4" fish is equal to eight 2" fish. An 8" fish is equal to eight 4" or 64 2" fish. You can see how even one 8" fish would be a HUGE bioload on a 54G tank. Would you put 64 2" fish in a 54G tank? Of course not but people do it with the bigger fish species all the time... with plecos, goldfish and oscars being some of the most abused. It can be done but only if one is prepared to do frequent PWC's and filter maintenance so that the water quality stays in excellent shape. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: shari rivenburg [mailto:hillfarm@...] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:32 AM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Re: green beard algae Lenny, Thanks for taking the time to answer me - I was hoping you'd see my question and put your two cents in! I really appreciate your advice and this list. It's a God send as I don't know anyone in my area that I can consult on a personal basis! So, THANK YOU, once again!!!!!!!!! I'm not using any fertilizer - when I added it one time I had a huge outbreak of that "hair" like algae. Should I be using a fertilizer? What are your nitrate levels like before you do your weekly PWC? Also ammonia and nitrite. Are you doing weekly filter maintenance also (long article in my blog)? Are you vacuuming your substrate where ever you do not have plants? Here are my current readings: First with an API strip stick: GH 180 KH 180 pH 7.0 N02 0 N03 0 Next with an API test kit: pH 7.6 high pH 8.4 Amonia .5 N02 0 N03 0 I have not done any filter maintenance yet - I didn't think I had to with it being only 4 months old and this size filter is good for up to 160 gallons and mine is 54 gallons. I will read your blog article - thanks! Yes - I am very good about weekly vacuuming the substrate - in some spots a lot of stuff comes up and others nothing. Since you are getting a lot of algae and duckweed, you should leave the duckweed growing as it will help suck up some of the nitrates/phosphates that are feeding your algae problem. It will also block out some of the lighting which will further slow down your algae growth. What kind of fish and how many and what size are they? Do not add more of a bioload to your tank (snails, etc.) until you figure out what is causing the problem now. Do you have the common habit of over-feeding the fish? Here's where you'll probably really yell at me.....I was so excited about my new tank - I think I have too many fish! 3 Flying Foxes that have become quite large - 3-4'' at least 1 pletcostomus - 2" 4 dash dot tetras - very small -less than 1" 1 corydora - 2.5" 1 clown loach -2" 2 gourami -2.5" 5 glow fish - 1.5" 2 shrimp 2 swordtails - 1.5" 6 serpea tetras 1.5" I really don't think that I overfeed - only once or twice a day what they can eat in less than 2 minutes. Algae (and Duck Weed) is actually God's way of trying to keep the ecology of the tank in balance. If there wasn't a food source for the algae, then it wouldn't grow. As long as there are excess nitrates, phosphates, etc., then the algae will flourish to help suck them up. I won't remove the duck weed for awhile....thanks for any advice you can give me - I really appreciate it! :-) After you have removed the food source(s) for the algae, then you could cut back on the lighting and it will slowly die back. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] green beard algae I think I have determined that I have green beard algae. It's rather quite pretty - but it is covering my large mangrove root in my 55 gallon. Any suggestions for keeping it in check so it doesn't spread? I have a moderately planted tank with these algae type eating fish : flying foxes, pletcostumus but no SAE's which I think would help from the reading I've been doing. No CO2 injection. Lights are on about 10-12 hours a day - is that too much? I've also read that the Neritina sp. Zebra snail would be useful for controlling this algae...any comments on that? I've also read that floating plants help such as duck weed - I do have duck weed, but once a week when I do my PWC I take out a lot of it since it really seems to multiply quickly - is that a mistake? This tank has been running for about 5 months. Once again, thanks for any information you can share with me! Shari Rivenburg ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 11:34:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 12:26:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28979	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Suggestion to Mod.

Hmmmmm... well if another group has that feature, then our group should have it available but I've never seen that option on any of the groups that I moderate/own. I'll have to go look around and see. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Suggestion to Mod. Darn. Ok thank u. I belong to agardenwithwater@yahoogroups.com <mailto:agardenwithwater%40yahoogroups.com> and they had this feature. I was hoping. Thanks for your help. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 10:20:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Suggestion to Mod. The "Recent Activity" section that shows up in HTML emails from the group is something that Yahoo controls. Group owners/moderators do not have any control over what is sent along with the actual message other than a header or footer. BUT... If you go to the photos page of the group http://pets. ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos and click on the "List" View, there is a column for sorting by "Last Modified" so you can see the folders that were "last modified" which does serve the purpose. Your folder is at the top of that list right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of wellrimdangel Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:09 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Suggestion to Mod. I was wondering if maybe u could add photos to recent activities list? It would be alot easier to know they exist and find them as they are posted then it is to go back and look for them. Thank for taking the time to read. 0:) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:20:26 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 10:12:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 12:28:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28980	From: Matt	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

and i do have a Master freshwater test kit by API. i will continue to keep an eye on everything.. Thanx again! .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem ok, thanks ray and lenny, i will contunue to monitor everything, and keep the pH at or around 7.6... thanks for all your help guys! .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:45 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem Matt, Before I go any further, I would like to stress that pH 7.6 is not (repeat: NOT) that high in the least as properly maintaining your Tetras, except perhaps if you want to breed them, and then I even question whether it is. I have no idea who your "everyone else" is who has advised you to lowerr your pH, except to say they're obviously not that knowledgeable (and I'm not trying to knock them). You've no doubt come here to receive proper guidance, which we're trying to offer you. If you choose not to believe us, then you might want to consider obtaining a reliable source of literature on fish keeping, such as the Baensch aquarium guide, which will tell you the same thing (and which any serious hobbyist should invest in anyway). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: > > ok, thanks ray for all the info it took me several times reading it to digest everthing. so here goes my explaniation of my thoughts. > > first, i have no test results for my water supply, except i do know, that i have brook river water coming into the well, coming through a 300+ foot piece of PVC pipe, going into a water tank, then through 200+ year old copper pipes. so from the well it does not have any chlorine in it, or anthing esle except natrural stuff... but who knows what with the piping and such/ > 2ndly i notice that the pH level is lower in the winter time, and higher in the summer. > 3rdly, everyone else i have talked to is woundering how i mange to keep my fish, in such a high pH tank, i have a few diffrent types of tetras, a guppy, and a plecco. all of witch i have had scince i set up the tank. so i guess i should of listend to my instinct and motto of "if it aint broke' dont fix it" and just left the ph alone. the thing i was worried about was the introduction of new fish that i wanted to buy, so i have tryed to lower the pH. again cus everyone else i talked to, said before you add new fish, lower your pH. > > right as of now, the pH is back to 7.6. > > so here is what i propose to do. > 1. keep with the 10% percent water changes untill the Ich goes away > 2. raise the tempture > 3. keep using the same water sorce > 4. not add anymore pH down > 5. hope for the best! LOL > > i said in a e-mail earlier, that everone looks better today so far, the ich seems to be alot better already. > > now one more question as i posted before, i added another airstone, to "attempt to lower the pH".... i read that in a book, i know more O2 is better, but does this really hold true? the other reason i put it in there was beacuse it looks pretty. lol > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28981	From: Rich	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Fw: Lonnng post... (Bettas)

Well, he's got plenty of room that's for sure. They like lots of plants (live or  silk preferred for the sake of their fins). Have you tried different food? I've  heard they often don't like flakes, and they definitely can be finicky. I use  two different brands of pellets (Hikari and HGH) and mine gobbles up the 3-4 I  give him twice daily. Have you tested the water pre a and post vacuuming? If the  water params are off that could be an issue and is a good first thing to check.  Rich   > > > Some info on the tanks would be great - what size, are they > > heated/filtered, how often is the water changed... > > > > Well, the betta that doesn't move around much is in a 5 gallon hexagon > > tank...no plants (fake or real) at the moment...a sunken ship, filter, > > light, and bubbles. He gets his tank vacuumed about every 5 days and it > > drains about a gallon to do it...lots of food laying on the bottom so I > > don't think he is eating very much, if at all. > > > > The other fish (that I'm not so worried about but still wondering what > > the blackness is) is in this plastic terrarium thing that one of them > > came in...he is in about 2.5 or 3 gallons of water. Has a small filter > > in there too. No fake or real plants in there either. I don't vacuum > > his tank much since he eats all his food. > > > > > > > Bettas are not the speediest of fish, but not moving at all and not > > responding to stimuli is bad. IMO the cramped quarters they're often > > seen in makes people think they just float around or lay on the bottom > > all day. My crowntail is in a 5 gallon hex and he's constantly > > exploring all levels of the tank. Sure, he rests on plants or the > > substrate once in awhile - which is normal. I keep the tank at 80 > > degrees (77-82 or therabouts is what I've seen recommended so 80 hits > > the sweet spot) and give the tank the standard weekly 20-25%  water > > change. > > > > My tanks are at about 80 degrees, too. The fish I am more worried about > > (in the 5 gallon hex) will either hide under the sunken ship or behind > > the box on the filter that hangs into the tank. I hardly ever see him. > > He does not come up/out to eat that I see...he could be after I turn > > the light off, or after I walk away...I dunno. > > > > > > >Do they eat reliably? They can be picky eaters, as well (though mine > > isn't and I really have to exercise restraint and not overfeed!) > > > > One does, one doesn't. I put in a small pinch of Betta food (has red > > flakes and tiny off white worm looking things in it...very few worms) > > the fish in the plastic 2.5-3 gallon tank eats all his food. The betta > > in the 5 gallon hex...I have no idea...but the food does accumulate at > > the bottom of the tank (oh and neither tank has rocks in it). I was > > thinking if I change the decoration in the tank of the hiding betta, so > > he has to either be out, or hide behind the filter box, maybe he'd > > eat...but I don't want him stressed with nowhere to hide either. > > > > thanks, and i hope that info helps :-) > > > > anndrea > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28982	From: pam andress	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: clubs in Philly/nj

Check this out http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?decorations&1218074401 I have this in one of my 55 gal tanks and it is wonderful. Not sure where you can get green. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: diana_brooks@...: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:23:59 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] clubs in Philly/nj Newby - I was happy to see the post from a Lancaster PA group, are there any groups in Philly (where I work) or southern NJ - closer than Freehold or Lancaster? It seems strange that no one in a large city keeps fish? Are there good places to shop for fish & supplies in Philladelphia, esp if accessible by public transportation? I take PATCO to work in center city. A sort of obscure question, I have set up / cycling a 55 gal, wanted to have some natural (brown) rock substrate, and some natural looking green. (not neon). I have been to everything near my home, which is Petco, Petsmart, Walmart <don't worry won't buy fish there>, and two non-chain pet stores and the closest I can get is a very artificial looking turquoise which looked even less natural under normal lighting at home. I've also looked at gardening places. Is there some reason why no one sells green gravel? I know the natural green minerals could have copper, but everything I have seen for sale other than brown is artificially colored anyway. I looked at getting some appropriate sized recycled green glass (tumbled) online but though I found several places that would sell me ten pounds for about 10 bucks, they all wanted like $40 for shipping which I thought was ridiculous for just a part of my tank. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28983	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Matt, Are you using a surface well, or a drilled well. It would be more likely that the brook provides some water to a surface well, but not a drilled well. Even so, much of the water from either source would come from an underground aquifer, which may not have as much to do with the brook as you might think, unless the water is directed to the surface well from the brook. Also, if it is a surface well, it is likely that you can get to the well and pull some water out for testing. If it is a drilled well, there should be a tap somewhere near the pump that you can draw some water off for testing. Since you have PVC pipe coming to the house, you can be pretty sure it is rated for potable water and will be pretty much neutral with its interaction with water--not add or subtract anything. If the copper piping is truly aged, even if it really is not 200 years old, the water has deposited enough mineral to coat the inside of the pipe, so the water will not be interacting with the copper at all. If it ever needs to be repaired, and new pipe is used for the repair, even 200 year old pipe can spring a leak, it will likely be a judgment call whether you need to run the water a while before using it in the tank. The pH change through the seasons sounds right. The water, if it is iced over, will have a higher CO2 content, thus dropping the pH. Pretty simple water chemistry, he says assuredly to someone who does not seem know much <g>. It is a fascinating subject, and I wish I had time to study it some more. If you have had high school chemistry, and passed, I can recommend a book to you that covers the topic pretty well for aquarists, though I did find some of the chemical equations a bit tough to get through. (I do have an ace in the hole, though, my brother-in-law is an organic chemist.) As for your fish, tetras may be the most on the edge of your pH, depending on which kind of tetras you have. Guppies come from waters with a high pH, so they should get in the groove quite well. The pleco could have come from a river with a higher pH, different species are found in different kinds of water. All in all, you probably made a fairly good selection of your fish for the kind of water you have. Everyone else, often known collectively as "they" of "them", might want to do a bit of research before they wind up in a similar quandary as you recently found yourself. As Ray or Lenny mentioned, there are a number of good books out there that you might want to add to your library (I really need to get another bookshelf, I'm getting tired of all those fish books on the floor in front of the current bookcase). Also, keep in mind that there are aquarium fish out there, notably rift lake cichlids, that prefer a pH higher than what you get naturally. That was a pretty quick switch around for you water. Did it happen spontaneously, or did you just do a massive water change? Raising the water temperature should help with the curing of the ich infection. If the water changes are called for by your ich cure of choice, by all means continue, otherwise, just go back to your normal schedule of water changes. You'll spoil the fish and they'll go on strike for more frequent water changes if you keep it up too long <g>. The airstone will not help to lower pH, and neither will oxygen. Use of CO2 will lower pH and most metering solutions for CO2 control will use pH as a measurement when to add more or to lessen the flow. However, don't let that stop you, if you like the effect. You might want to write the author through the publisher to ask exactly how he expects O2 to lower pH. You might want to post the title and author of the book, though it is not likely any of us "old-timers" would know the person, with an idea like that. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 8:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem ok, thanks ray for all the info it took me several times reading it to digest everthing. so here goes my explaniation of my thoughts. first, i have no test results for my water supply, except i do know, that i have brook river water coming into the well, coming through a 300+ foot piece of PVC pipe, going into a water tank, then through 200+ year old copper pipes. so from the well it does not have any chlorine in it, or anthing esle except natrural stuff... but who knows what with the piping and such/ 2ndly i notice that the pH level is lower in the winter time, and higher in the summer. 3rdly, everyone else i have talked to is woundering how i mange to keep my fish, in such a high pH tank, i have a few diffrent types of tetras, a guppy, and a plecco. all of witch i have had scince i set up the tank. so i guess i should of listend to my instinct and motto of "if it aint broke' dont fix it" and just left the ph alone. the thing i was worried about was the introduction of new fish that i wanted to buy, so i have tryed to lower the pH. again cus everyone else i talked to, said before you add new fish, lower your pH. right as of now, the pH is back to 7.6. so here is what i propose to do. 1. keep with the 10% percent water changes untill the Ich goes away 2. raise the tempture 3. keep using the same water sorce 4. not add anymore pH down 5. hope for the best! LOL i said in a e-mail earlier, that everone looks better today so far, the ich seems to be alot better already. now one more question as i posted before, i added another airstone, to "attempt to lower the pH".... i read that in a book, i know more O2 is better, but does this really hold true? the other reason i put it in there was beacuse it looks pretty. lol .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28984	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Matt, That may be an indication that you did not have ich at all, however, to be on the safe side, complete the full treatment with your Rid-Ich. Hold off on adding anything until your tank is stable again. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem ok, i get what your saying, and thank you. the light has been on for a bit now and none of the fish seem to have any ich on them at all. they seem to be back to normal, all of their colors are nice and bright again! so i shouldnt do a water change today? add the rid-ich? dont add it? leve it all be? im thinking of getting some more plants today.. bad idea to add them right away? or am i pretty much in the clear..? .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> Matt Musky ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:18 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem Hi Matt, As I stated earlier in response to your answer, to the question of whether you added anything new to your tank that would raise the pH, Jave Moss (or any plant) is not a concern for raising pH, so this was not your problem. If, on the otherhand, you feel that the addition of Java Moss may have infected your tank with Ich -- even though that was not the question that was asked of you -- know that Ich is ever-present in most aquarium water, residing in a latent state. Healthy fish are never prone to infections by Ich, which only have the opportunity to infect fish in a weakened state. In your case, this weakened state of your fish was brought on by the extreme stress they were subjected to when their pH was suddenly reduced from 7.6 to 6.0 and then on top of that, bounced right back up again. Their plight was in trying to adjust to an extreme drop in pH and then just as suddenly try to re- adjust to a high Ph while in the process of adjusting to the drop. To answer a question that may be going through your mind right now, Ich does not reside in well water. Ich is introduced with any fish you add to your tank, since its almost always in aquarium water, and comes along for the ride not necessarily on any fish but with their water (even if you discard their original bag water). By their nature, fish are immersed in fish and are still wet when you transfer them to your tank. This is not to say that plants should not be disinfected before placing them in your tank -- they should. -- but transferring plants to your tank that came from a fish-inhabited environment is not the root cause of your fish getting Ich; they were stressed. I would not stress your fish more by now using a different water source. There is nothing wrong with your water, and additional water changes at this point (unless needed because of elevated ammonia or nitrite levels that we don't know about) will not aid in curing them of Ich. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: > > well i bought the moss from the local petshop. they had it for awhile, and i think there were fish in the same tank. i did not know that plants from a tank with fish are a bad thing. this morning looking at them, 7:00 am they are all still alive, the light is off, so i cant really see how the ich is doing, but they look to be swimming better than yesterday! i am going to continue with the water changes, but am going to try from a diffrent sorce. should i take the java moss out? also i added another airstone to the tank yesterday to help airate the water more. > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Angel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:55 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > I havent tried it but i read on a good fish sight that u should soak wild plants in bleach for one week and it wont kill them to treat it before adding it to the tank. Did the moss come from an established tank? This could be your problem. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Matt <mattmusky@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 7:06:42 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed really well,..... > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> ..·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Angel > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH? > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > help please!? > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28985	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: clubs in Philly/nj

The Delaware County Aquarium Society is probably too far south for you, but here is their site: http://www.dcas.us/modules/content/ Bucks County might be a bit closer for you: http://www.bcasonline.com/ \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] clubs in Philly/nj Newby - I was happy to see the post from a Lancaster PA group, are there any groups in Philly (where I work) or southern NJ - closer than Freehold or Lancaster? It seems strange that no one in a large city keeps fish? Are there good places to shop for fish & supplies in Philladelphia, esp if accessible by public transportation? I take PATCO to work in center city. A sort of obscure question, I have set up / cycling a 55 gal, wanted to have some natural (brown) rock substrate, and some natural looking green. (not neon). I have been to everything near my home, which is Petco, Petsmart, Walmart <don't worry won't buy fish there>, and two non-chain pet stores and the closest I can get is a very artificial looking turquoise which looked even less natural under normal lighting at home. I've also looked at gardening places. Is there some reason why no one sells green gravel? I know the natural green minerals could have copper, but everything I have seen for sale other than brown is artificially colored anyway. I looked at getting some appropriate sized recycled green glass (tumbled) online but though I found several places that would sell me ten pounds for about 10 bucks, they all wanted like $40 for shipping which I thought was ridiculous for just a part of my tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28986	From: Kurt Johnston	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: clubs in Philly/nj

There are 2 groups in Philly Area Bucks County A. S. http://www.bcasonline.com/ & Delaware County A.S. http://www.dcas.us/modules/content/ There are 2 that I know of in NJ – North Jersey A.S. http://www.njas.net/ & Jersey Shore A.S. http://www.jerseyshoreas.org/ Also there is the Diamond State A.S. http://dsas.topcities.com/ in Delaware Hope that helps you Kurt Johnston <http://www.aclc.us/> Aquarium Club of Lancaster County BAP / Public Relations/Swap Meet Chairman Webmaster From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] clubs in Philly/nj Newby - I was happy to see the post from a Lancaster PA group, are there any groups in Philly (where I work) or southern NJ - closer than Freehold or Lancaster? It seems strange that no one in a large city keeps fish? Are there good places to shop for fish & supplies in Philladelphia, esp if accessible by public transportation? I take PATCO to work in center city. A sort of obscure question, I have set up / cycling a 55 gal, wanted to have some natural (brown) rock substrate, and some natural looking green. (not neon). I have been to everything near my home, which is Petco, Petsmart, Walmart <don't worry won't buy fish there>, and two non-chain pet stores and the closest I can get is a very artificial looking turquoise which looked even less natural under normal lighting at home. I've also looked at gardening places. Is there some reason why no one sells green gravel? I know the natural green minerals could have copper, but everything I have seen for sale other than brown is artificially colored anyway. I looked at getting some appropriate sized recycled green glass (tumbled) online but though I found several places that would sell me ten pounds for about 10 bucks, they all wanted like $40 for shipping which I thought was ridiculous for just a part of my tank. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28987	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Well, in my case, normalize and acidify mean the same thing. But it was good to point out that that may not be true for everybody. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 4:07 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem Yes, this is definitely a problem whereby the buffering capacity has been broken, as Steve has indicated. However, it should be pointed out that blowing CO2 through the water WILL NOT "normalize" the pH, whatever is meant by you by this term, unless by "normalize," you mean acidify. Blowing carbon dioxide through the water will only serve to create carbonic acid (H2CO2), a weak solution of a dibasic acid and will not help in any manner related to this problem. Likewise, the suggestion by someone else that adding aquatic plants, in this case Java Moss, would have anything to do with a Ph crash or jump is totally erroneous. While your advice, as everyone else's (including our newcomer's), is most appreciated on this Group, I'd ask that our contributors please refrain from making suggestions (guesses) unless you actually KNOW what you are stating as being fact. Help is ALWAYS appeciated, but only if its "helpful" (LOL). Otherwise, misinformation only causes confusion (or worse problems). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Looks like a buffering thing to me too. > > That'll get it back to its normal level, but it may not be the fastest > solution. And if it swung back it may now be at its normal level. > > I'd want to know specifically what is going on, personally. A proper water > quality report would explain it, if there is one or if it's worth it to him > to get his water tested properly. > > Knowing what is going on can suggest solutions as well as explain the > problem, and you know what to do not to do it again. > > I mean, if you want to normalize the ph of my water, all you have to do is > blow carbon dioxide through it! Even the water quality lab people knew > that! This is because they artificially mess with the ph and leave it > extremely high. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:23 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > Soaking plants in bleach for that length of time will not only kill anything > on the plants, but the plants themselves. If there is a need to ensure your > plants are green, you can give them a bath in a solution of potassium > permanganate or alum for 5-10 minutes. His problem with the pH is not the > introduction of the java moss, but the fact that he managed to break the > buffer of the water with his addition of pH Down, or whatever the product > was. The solution is, as I stated, to do water changes of 10-15% daily, > until the pH rises to its normal level. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Angel > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > I havent tried it but i read on a good fish sight that u should soak wild > plants in bleach for one week and it wont kill them to treat it before > adding it to the tank. Did the moss come from an established tank? This > could be your problem. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Matt <mattmusky@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 7:06:42 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > > the only thing i added, was a chunk of java moss, that i rinsed really > well,..... > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> ..·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Angel > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > Did u happen to put anything new in the tanks that could raise your PH? > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Matt <mattmusky@prodigy. net> > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:01:27 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big problem > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water > tank. > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it > was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH > was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce > pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all > this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours > or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > help please!? > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28988	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Actually in reference to Raymond's last post on normalzing the ph by blowing air through the water, that is a good idea in my case because over time as air bubbles through my tank in use, the ph settles to the 7.4 to 7.6 level that you get it to by variously bubbling and blowing air through it before you add it to the tank. If I just added the water with the ph that comes out of the tank, which is 8.8 - the ph swings would kill the fish! As for whether that works, the city water quaility lab person told me it does, and so did a big discussion we had about air, CO2, water taps, and ph on one of these lists several months ago. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 4:23 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem Matt, For starters, I'll get right to the point and ask first, what makes you think a pH of 7.6 is "high"? (and why would you want to change it?). I don't know what fish you are keeping, but most of our "average" community-type aquarium fish will do just fine at that pH. As has already been pointed out, your problem is testimony to exactly what can happen when unnecessarily messing with your pH, again not meaning to be crass. There is no need to fool around with your pH (unless perhaps you are bredding certain fish that may require something different), as most aquarium fish will adjust to a range of conditions -- and this is NOT extreme (AT ALL). This is a typical example though, of what a hobbyist may expect by adding chemicals un-needingly. You should learn to work with the water conditions that you have, and when you do, these types of problems will be non-existant; and your fish will adjust. Not to mention -- using your tap water will make it so much easier for you, and will be so much easier on your fish if they continually receive the same consistant water conditions when making PWC's (partial water changes). I'll address just what's going in in my follow-up post. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: > > hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon Fresh water tank. > > this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank with Kordon Rid-ich+. > > help please!? > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28989	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

Taht's true; most tetras can do very well at ph's of 7.5. Many do well at ph's of 8.0, and it is possible that most of them do. Those that actually need a neutral or slightly acid environment, the books will tell you that. Those species often need soft water as well, as I remember. They've adapted to particular environments where those conditions happen to hold. My tetras are swimming happily around in a tank that is usally around 7.4 to 7.6. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:45 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem Matt, Before I go any further, I would like to stress that pH 7.6 is not (repeat: NOT) that high in the least as properly maintaining your Tetras, except perhaps if you want to breed them, and then I even question whether it is. I have no idea who your "everyone else" is who has advised you to lowerr your pH, except to say they're obviously not that knowledgeable (and I'm not trying to knock them). You've no doubt come here to receive proper guidance, which we're trying to offer you. If you choose not to believe us, then you might want to consider obtaining a reliable source of literature on fish keeping, such as the Baensch aquarium guide, which will tell you the same thing (and which any serious hobbyist should invest in anyway). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: > > ok, thanks ray for all the info it took me several times reading it to digest everthing. so here goes my explaniation of my thoughts. > > first, i have no test results for my water supply, except i do know, that i have brook river water coming into the well, coming through a 300+ foot piece of PVC pipe, going into a water tank, then through 200+ year old copper pipes. so from the well it does not have any chlorine in it, or anthing esle except natrural stuff... but who knows what with the piping and such/ > 2ndly i notice that the pH level is lower in the winter time, and higher in the summer. > 3rdly, everyone else i have talked to is woundering how i mange to keep my fish, in such a high pH tank, i have a few diffrent types of tetras, a guppy, and a plecco. all of witch i have had scince i set up the tank. so i guess i should of listend to my instinct and motto of "if it aint broke' dont fix it" and just left the ph alone. the thing i was worried about was the introduction of new fish that i wanted to buy, so i have tryed to lower the pH. again cus everyone else i talked to, said before you add new fish, lower your pH. > > right as of now, the pH is back to 7.6. > > so here is what i propose to do. > 1. keep with the 10% percent water changes untill the Ich goes away > 2. raise the tempture > 3. keep using the same water sorce > 4. not add anymore pH down > 5. hope for the best! LOL > > i said in a e-mail earlier, that everone looks better today so far, the ich seems to be alot better already. > > now one more question as i posted before, i added another airstone, to "attempt to lower the pH".... i read that in a book, i know more O2 is better, but does this really hold true? the other reason i put it in there was beacuse it looks pretty. lol > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > Matt Musky > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28990	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Big problem

There's a correction below. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem > Actually in reference to Raymond's last post on normalzing the ph by > blowing > air through the water, that is a good idea in my case because over time as > air bubbles through my tank in use, the ph settles to the 7.4 to 7.6 level > that you get it to by variously bubbling and blowing air through it before > you add it to the tank. If I just added the water with the ph that comes > out of the * TAP, * which is 8.8 - the ph swings would kill the fish! > > As for whether that works, the city water quaility lab person told me it > does, and so did a big discussion we had about air, CO2, water taps, and > ph > on one of these lists several months ago. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 4:23 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big problem > > > Matt, For starters, I'll get right to the point and ask first, what > makes you think a pH of 7.6 is "high"? (and why would you want to > change it?). I don't know what fish you are keeping, but most of > our "average" community-type aquarium fish will do just fine at that > pH. As has already been pointed out, your problem is testimony to > exactly what can happen when unnecessarily messing with your pH, again > not meaning to be crass. There is no need to fool around with your pH > (unless perhaps you are bredding certain fish that may require > something different), as most aquarium fish will adjust to a range of > conditions -- and this is NOT extreme (AT ALL). > > This is a typical example though, of what a hobbyist may expect by > adding chemicals un-needingly. You should learn to work with the water > conditions that you have, and when you do, these types of problems will > be non-existant; and your fish will adjust. Not to mention -- using > your tap water will make it so much easier for you, and will be so much > easier on your fish if they continually receive the same consistant > water conditions when making PWC's (partial water changes). I'll > address just what's going in in my follow-up post. Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmusky@...> wrote: >> >> hey everyone, ive got something weird going on with my 30 gallon > Fresh water tank. >> >> this morning, everything was fine i went to add a little pH down, > because it was high, about 7.6. about 30 to 45 minutes later, i checked > it, and the pH was about 6.0! so i did a 25 percent water change, i > checked the water sorce pH and its about 7.0, and the tank rebounded to > 7.6.... and on top of all this, i believe my fish have ich. all of this > has happend in about 6 hours or so.... i have now treated the tank > with Kordon Rid-ich+. >> >> help please!? >> .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> >> Matt Musky >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28991	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: clubs in Philly/nj

You know what? I found myself asking in all the fish stores and departments right around where I live where I could find certain items and answers to certain questions, and kept getting referred to a single store in town where they have some real expertise and some specialized supplies that the casual person with a fish bowl wouldn't bother with, like e-heim wet-dry pumps. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Brooks" <diana_brooks@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 8:23 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] clubs in Philly/nj Newby - I was happy to see the post from a Lancaster PA group, are there any groups in Philly (where I work) or southern NJ - closer than Freehold or Lancaster? It seems strange that no one in a large city keeps fish? Are there good places to shop for fish & supplies in Philladelphia, esp if accessible by public transportation? I take PATCO to work in center city. A sort of obscure question, I have set up / cycling a 55 gal, wanted to have some natural (brown) rock substrate, and some natural looking green. (not neon). I have been to everything near my home, which is Petco, Petsmart, Walmart <don't worry won't buy fish there>, and two non-chain pet stores and the closest I can get is a very artificial looking turquoise which looked even less natural under normal lighting at home. I've also looked at gardening places. Is there some reason why no one sells green gravel? I know the natural green minerals could have copper, but everything I have seen for sale other than brown is artificially colored anyway. I looked at getting some appropriate sized recycled green glass (tumbled) online but though I found several places that would sell me ten pounds for about 10 bucks, they all wanted like $40 for shipping which I thought was ridiculous for just a part of my tank. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28992	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

I found the best thing to do as a beginner is some research. There's a web site called I think the Krib that has a list of fish for beginners, and one of hte people on this list keeps a blog of lots of information. You will also learn alot by googling specific types of fish, and you''ll also readh the main online resources for such things. Some of the tetras do well with beginners, and they do well with danios, which are a good fish to start out with because they can survive newbie efforts to stabilize your tank''s biochemistry. Guppies are another common strategy. And there are others. Platys and sword tails are I think a bit delicate for beginners, adn stay away from catfish until your tank ahs been running for some months and its chemistry is stable. Danios are a very plain looking striped minnow, but they are active and playful and soon grow on you. Two books I've found really good are David Boruchwitz's The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums, and Maddy and Mic Hargrove's Freshwater Aquariums for Dummies. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "tillmanalbany" <tillmanalbany@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28993	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

Or you could danio cycle the tank. With just a couple of danios and work up. I began with three. Fishless cycling is too intimidating for me. :) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Hi Peggy, I have a page on my fish blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and near the top of that list, I have two different free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and give you a lot more questions to ask out here. ;-) The main thing you want to do is "Fishless Cycle" your tank to make it safe for your fish before you bring them home. There are a couple of ways to do this listed on that A to Z page. There are also products like Bio-Spira or it's successor, "Dr. Tim's One And Only" http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html which you can use to "instantly" cycle the tank. As you take one or both of those free tutorials, you can be fishless cycling your tank and that will give you the time to go to your local stores to see what fish are available that you like. Once you have some in mind, go to http://fish.mongabay.com and put in the common name or Latin name (preferred) and look at the profile/care sheet on that fish to make sure it's compatible with your local water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:35:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28994	From: SUE	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish?

I have a 35 gal tank that has one Angel fish and some guppies. I was told that I could put a Betta in with them. I always thought they needed to be kept by alone.Any advice?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28995	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: Or you could danio cycle the tank. With just a couple of danios and work up. I began with three. Fishless cycling is too intimidating for me. :) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Hi Peggy, I have a page on my fish blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and near the top of that list, I have two different free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and give you a lot more questions to ask out here. ;-) The main thing you want to do is "Fishless Cycle" your tank to make it safe for your fish before you bring them home. There are a couple of ways to do this listed on that A to Z page. There are also products like Bio-Spira or it's successor, "Dr. Tim's One And Only" http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html which you can use to "instantly" cycle the tank. As you take one or both of those free tutorials, you can be fishless cycling your tank and that will give you the time to go to your local stores to see what fish are available that you like. Once you have some in mind, go to http://fish.mongabay.com and put in the common name or Latin name (preferred) and look at the profile/care sheet on that fish to make sure it's compatible with your local water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:35:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28996	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish?

The angelfish will end up picking the bettas fins and the betta will pick at the guppies fins. How big of an angel is it by chance? I've had angels in community tanks until the got about 2 to 3 inches accross then they start to get aggressive. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "SUE" <mn_susieq_2007@...> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:32:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish? I have a 35 gal tank that has one Angel fish and some guppies. I was told that I could put a Betta in with them. I always thought they needed to be kept by alone.Any advice? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish?

Male Bettas do not need to be kept alone but do not usually do well with other male Bettas or with other fancy fish with long finnage... a/k/a the angelfish. Male Bettas seem to like to be the prettiest fish in the tank. Go to my blog and on the right side under "Labels", look at the article called "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Recommendations" and Hailey mentions some different stocking options for male Bettas. Of course, fish do not always read the same stuff we do so you could always try it and be ready to move the Betta back to his separate tank if he gets aggressive. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SUE Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish? I have a 35 gal tank that has one Angel fish and some guppies. I was told that I could put a Betta in with them. I always thought they needed to be kept by alone.Any advice? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:40:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28998	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

I cycled my first tank with Danios in December and still have them all. Healthy as can be. Of course then I didnt realize I had other options. Heather -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: Or you could danio cycle the tank. With just a couple of danios and work up. I began with three. Fishless cycling is too intimidating for me. :) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Hi Peggy, I have a page on my fish blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and near the top of that list, I have two different free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and give you a lot more questions to ask out here. ;-) The main thing you want to do is "Fishless Cycle" your tank to make it safe for your fish before you bring them home. There are a couple of ways to do this listed on that A to Z page. There are also products like Bio-Spira or it's successor, "Dr. Tim's One And Only" http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html which you can use to "instantly" cycle the tank. As you take one or both of those free tutorials, you can be fishless cycling your tank and that will give you the time to go to your local stores to see what fish are available that you like. Once you have some in mind, go to http://fish.mongabay.com and put in the common name or Latin name (preferred) and look at the profile/care sheet on that fish to make sure it's compatible with your local water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:35:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 28999	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish?

I would not put a betta into the environment that you currently have. Both the guppies and the angel may have fun with the long flowing fins of a betta. A single male betta may be kept in a community tank. For the most part the aggression of bettas is conspecifics, in other words, they are aggressive only to their own species. This is not 100% foolproof, however. You will have those that are aggressive to anything that moves, or to only those fish that resemble a conspecific, with long finnage. You pay your money, and like Las Vegas, you take your chances. Just be prepared to move the betta to another home where his can live by himself. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SUE Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish? I have a 35 gal tank that has one Angel fish and some guppies. I was told that I could put a Betta in with them. I always thought they needed to be kept by alone.Any advice? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29000	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

Well they are fish. I choose not to anthropomorphize things. In a large enough tank it can be done without killing them. I have not had to start a tank from scratch in years. I just harvest filters or gravel from another running tank. -Mike What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: Or you could danio cycle the tank. With just a couple of danios and work up. I began with three. Fishless cycling is too intimidating for me. :) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Hi Peggy, I have a page on my fish blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and near the top of that list, I have two different free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and give you a lot more questions to ask out here. ;-) The main thing you want to do is "Fishless Cycle" your tank to make it safe for your fish before you bring them home. There are a couple of ways to do this listed on that A to Z page. There are also products like Bio-Spira or it's successor, "Dr. Tim's One And Only" http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html which you can use to "instantly" cycle the tank. As you take one or both of those free tutorials, you can be fishless cycling your tank and that will give you the time to go to your local stores to see what fish are available that you like. Once you have some in mind, go to http://fish.mongabay.com and put in the common name or Latin name (preferred) and look at the profile/care sheet on that fish to make sure it's compatible with your local water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:35:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29001	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

Yes it can be done without killing them, but no matter what it will have an effect on them. Years ago we did not know about "Fishless Cycling" so we did it that way and we paid close attention to our tanks. But progress and time has taught us that there are other ways. Why shouldn't we take the modern approach and help our fish as much as we can. As in many other aspects of our life, these fish may not be always around for us to showcase in our tanks. In the mean time I think we should do all we can to offer them the best possible environment we can. In other words let's be the best "Fish Aquarists that we can" Lets take our Hobby serious. John in Nevada Deenerz@... wrote: Well they are fish. I choose not to anthropomorphize things. In a large enough tank it can be done without killing them. I have not had to start a tank from scratch in years. I just harvest filters or gravel from another running tank. -Mike What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: Or you could danio cycle the tank. With just a couple of danios and work up. I began with three. Fishless cycling is too intimidating for me. :) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Hi Peggy, I have a page on my fish blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and near the top of that list, I have two different free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and give you a lot more questions to ask out here. ;-) The main thing you want to do is "Fishless Cycle" your tank to make it safe for your fish before you bring them home. There are a couple of ways to do this listed on that A to Z page. There are also products like Bio-Spira or it's successor, "Dr. Tim's One And Only" http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html which you can use to "instantly" cycle the tank. As you take one or both of those free tutorials, you can be fishless cycling your tank and that will give you the time to go to your local stores to see what fish are available that you like. Once you have some in mind, go to http://fish.mongabay.com and put in the common name or Latin name (preferred) and look at the profile/care sheet on that fish to make sure it's compatible with your local water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:35:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29002	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

They usually live (but shorter lifespans) and suffer permanent gill and internal organ damage due swimming and breathing in the water with high levels of ammonia and nitrites. A 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia from Ace Hardware will fishless cycle many tanks without harming the fish.... or if one is in a hurry, then Dr. Tim's One And Only type product that instantly cycles a tank will work. Just be careful not to buy just any brand as many of them do not work as advertised but I trust Dr. Tim Hovanec, the inventor of Bio-Spira, to only put out a product that does work. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > wrote: Or you could danio cycle the tank. With just a couple of danios and work up. I began with three. Fishless cycling is too intimidating for me. :) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Hi Peggy, I have a page on my fish blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and near the top of that list, I have two different free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and give you a lot more questions to ask out here. ;-) The main thing you want to do is "Fishless Cycle" your tank to make it safe for your fish before you bring them home. There are a couple of ways to do this listed on that A to Z page. There are also products like Bio-Spira or it's successor, "Dr. Tim's One And Only" http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html <http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html> which you can use to "instantly" cycle the tank. As you take one or both of those free tutorials, you can be fishless cycling your tank and that will give you the time to go to your local stores to see what fish are available that you like. Once you have some in mind, go to http://fish.mongabay.com <http://fish.mongabay.com> and put in the common name or Latin name (preferred) and look at the profile/care sheet on that fish to make sure it's compatible with your local water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/5/2008 12:04:03 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

DING, DING, DING!!! We have a winner of the big-word contest for this week! ;-) Congratulations Mike!!! http://wordsmith.org/words/anthropomorphize.html Anthropomorphize - (an-thruh-puh-MOR-fyz) verb tr., intr. To attribute human qualities to things not human. [From Greek anthropo- (human) + morph (form).] Today's word in Visual Thesaurus. -Anu Garg (words at wordsmith.org) "Yes, we love our pets and anthropomorphize them to the point where we think our cat might enjoy wearing the mouse hat Halloween costume." Natalie Angier; The Ambivalent Bond With a Ball of Fur; The New York Times; Oct 2, 2007. -----end of definition----- Mike, Have you ever owned a pet that you did anthropomorphize? BTW... send me a SASE with a check for $99.95 to cover shipping/handling and I'll send you your big-word prize! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Well they are fish. I choose not to anthropomorphize things. In a large enough tank it can be done without killing them. I have not had to start a tank from scratch in years. I just harvest filters or gravel from another running tank. -Mike What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@... <mailto:dumont53%40sbcglobal.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > wrote: Or you could danio cycle the tank. With just a couple of danios and work up. I began with three. Fishless cycling is too intimidating for me. :) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Hi Peggy, I have a page on my fish blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and near the top of that list, I have two different free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and give you a lot more questions to ask out here. ;-) The main thing you want to do is "Fishless Cycle" your tank to make it safe for your fish before you bring them home. There are a couple of ways to do this listed on that A to Z page. There are also products like Bio-Spira or it's successor, "Dr. Tim's One And Only" http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html <http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html> which you can use to "instantly" cycle the tank. As you take one or both of those free tutorials, you can be fishless cycling your tank and that will give you the time to go to your local stores to see what fish are available that you like. Once you have some in mind, go to http://fish.mongabay.com <http://fish.mongabay.com> and put in the common name or Latin name (preferred) and look at the profile/care sheet on that fish to make sure it's compatible with your local water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/5/2008 12:12:08 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29004	From: dapi_editor	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: looking for

I'm looking for some West African cichlids, I've seen them from time to time listed on Aquabid but most of the time the seller only ships in the US. That's a problem as I live in Japan and a $25 fish becomes a $150 fish here (if it's even available). I did contact one or two sellers who were recommended and did purchase fish from them only to have the original fish and the replacements arrive in good time but DOA. Anyways, I have a list, some Pelvicachromis, Benitochromis, Chromidotilapia and Nanochromis species. If anyone here is a breeder or seller, has fish and is willing to ship overseas please contact me.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29005	From: Angel	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish?

I have always put my betta in tanks with other fish.  They are shy toward fisht that arent bettas.  Its like a pit bull. All fish have there own personality and it cant be based on breed. ----- Original Message ---- From: SUE <mn_susieq_2007@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 10:32:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish? I have a 35 gal tank that has one Angel fish and some guppies. I was told that I could put a Betta in with them. I always thought they needed to be kept by alone.Any advice? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29006	From: tillmanalbany	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: 1st F.W. Aquarium again

Thank you, everyone, I learned from your postings and I now have our 30 gallon tank outside full of water, checking for leaks. Next question: Since I only have the tank, light, and the under gravel filter, (no pump), I have been checking out Craigslist and I found the following items for $20, can I use these? "A small lot of fish tank equipment. Two heaters, complete Magnum filter, parts for a Magnum filter, thermometer, box of charcoal, books." I am especially curious about the Magnum filter and how to sanitize it, if it would work for me. These items have been sitting in their garage for a couple of years. Thanks again! Newbie Peggy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29007	From: L. Gove	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish

I was thinking the same thing, they have to kept seperate from other male betta's but can be put in with other fish. On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Angel <wellrimdangel@...> wrote: > I have always put my betta in tanks with other fish. They are shy > toward fisht that arent bettas. Its like a pit bull. All fish have there > own personality and it cant be based on breed. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: SUE <mn_susieq_2007@... <mn_susieq_2007%40yahoo.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 10:32:15 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one > Angel fish? > > I have a 35 gal tank that has one Angel fish and some guppies. I was > told that I could put a Betta in with them. I always thought they > needed to be kept by alone.Any advice? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29008	From: K'lyn	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Can I put a male Betta in my tank of guppies & one Angel fish?

I have 2 angels, and 3 crowntail bettas (1 male 1 females) all together with numerous other semi-agressive fish in the same tank and they've left each other alone. In a 35 gallon tank it should be alright as long as there's enough hiding places/plants. To distract the betta you may want to consider getting 2 females (if there's enough room) to establish a harem and keep an eye on them for a little while to see if any of them are picking on each other. You can move him back to his betta house if that happens. Bettas really make a pretty edition to aquariums. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "SUE" <mn_susieq_2007@...> wrote: > > I have a 35 gal tank that has one Angel fish and some guppies. I was > told that I could put a Betta in with them. I always thought they > needed to be kept by alone.Any advice? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29009	From: K'lyn	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

We cycled our tank with 10 danios in Feburary and all of them are still happily swimming and very active. I wasn't aware of fishless cycling. How much ammonia and how long? If you put your fish in too soon what would be the difference between putting your fish through cycling a tank and shortening their lifespans or adding them too soon with ammonia in the tank and killing them that way? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "tillmanalbany" <tillmanalbany@...> wrote: > > I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my > 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly > simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good > combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to > deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you > have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29010	From: pam andress	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

When I started my first tank, I used a feeder gold fish. They can handle the different water and then I gave it back to the LFS I got it from. After I that tank running and wanted to start up another, I used some of the water and filter material from the first etc.. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 00:04:03 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium They usually live (but shorter lifespans) and suffer permanent gill andinternal organ damage due swimming and breathing in the water with highlevels of ammonia and nitrites. A 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia from AceHardware will fishless cycle many tanks without harming the fish.... or ifone is in a hurry, then Dr. Tim's One And Only type product that instantlycycles a tank will work. Just be careful not to buy just any brand as manyof them do not work as advertised but I trust Dr. Tim Hovanec, the inventorof Bio-Spira, to only put out a product that does work.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of JOHN KD7POESent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:39 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water AquariumWhat about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How wouldyou like it if someone did that to you,John in NevadaDora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > wrote:Or you could danio cycle the tank. With just a couple of danios and work up.I began with three. Fishless cycling is too intimidating for me. :)Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>----- Original Message -----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:35 AMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water AquariumHi Peggy,I have a page on my fish blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and nearthe top of that list, I have two different free online tutorials that willwalk you through all of the basics and give you a lot more questions to askout here. ;-)The main thing you want to do is "Fishless Cycle" your tank to make it safefor your fish before you bring them home. There are a couple of ways to dothis listed on that A to Z page. There are also products like Bio-Spira orit's successor, "Dr. Tim's One And Only"http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html<http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html> which youcan use to "instantly" cycle the tank.As you take one or both of those free tutorials, you can be fishless cyclingyour tank and that will give you the time to go to your local stores to seewhat fish are available that you like. Once you have some in mind, go tohttp://fish.mongabay.com <http://fish.mongabay.com> and put in the commonname or Latin name(preferred) and look at the profile/care sheet on that fish to make sureit's compatible with your local water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.)Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of tillmanalbanySent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water AquariumI am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple andbeaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination ofinexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or shouldI go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer likeme? Thank you, Peggy_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008Tested on: 8/5/2008 12:04:03 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29011	From: Judith Downing	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Web auctions for fish/plants

Hi All, I have decided to add another aquarium, a 29g, to my collection. There are not any good sources of fish around here for anything but the basics so I am considering using aquabid.com or other auction sites to buy fish & plants. Does anyone have any recommendations for me? Either ones to look for or ones to avoid? Or other reasonable source, meaning shipping that won't break the bank. Thanks. Judy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29012	From: jett07002	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: looking for

Sorry about the DOA's but if you dealt with a reputable site, they would replace the fish. Did you ask? Many times it's not the seller who's at fault. It's the way they are handled by the shipping people. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dapi_editor" <dapi_editor@...> wrote: > > I'm looking for some West African cichlids, I've seen them from time > to time listed on Aquabid but most of the time the seller only ships > in the US. That's a problem as I live in Japan and a $25 fish becomes > a $150 fish here (if it's even available). > > I did contact one or two sellers who were recommended and did purchase > fish from them only to have the original fish and the replacements > arrive in good time but DOA. > > Anyways, I have a list, some Pelvicachromis, Benitochromis, > Chromidotilapia and Nanochromis species. If anyone here is a breeder > or seller, has fish and is willing to ship overseas please contact me. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29013	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)

I had a rosy red minnow in with my beautiful veiltail. She's large - about 3.5"; the minnow died yesterday -- I assume from old age; we'd had him for about two years. I'd like to get another "friend" for the goldie. We have a platy tank, and I thought about putting a large male platy in with the goldie, but don't know if that's wise. Would a male platy harass the goldie? Your thoughts, please.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29014	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Another new tank and plant question.

We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29015	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

My danios did just fine. They suffered no ill effects at all. They''re still happily swimming around. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN KD7POE" <dumont53@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: Or you could danio cycle the tank. With just a couple of danios and work up. I began with three. Fishless cycling is too intimidating for me. :) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Hi Peggy, I have a page on my fish blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and near the top of that list, I have two different free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and give you a lot more questions to ask out here. ;-) The main thing you want to do is "Fishless Cycle" your tank to make it safe for your fish before you bring them home. There are a couple of ways to do this listed on that A to Z page. There are also products like Bio-Spira or it's successor, "Dr. Tim's One And Only" http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html which you can use to "instantly" cycle the tank. As you take one or both of those free tutorials, you can be fishless cycling your tank and that will give you the time to go to your local stores to see what fish are available that you like. Once you have some in mind, go to http://fish.mongabay.com and put in the common name or Latin name (preferred) and look at the profile/care sheet on that fish to make sure it's compatible with your local water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:35:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29016	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

I actually used them successfully to start a 10 gallon tank. Now, to be sure, I'm into frequent water changes. I never did allow waste products to rise to toxic levels. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Well they are fish. I choose not to anthropomorphize things. In a large enough tank it can be done without killing them. I have not had to start a tank from scratch in years. I just harvest filters or gravel from another running tank. -Mike What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: Or you could danio cycle the tank. With just a couple of danios and work up. I began with three. Fishless cycling is too intimidating for me. :) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Hi Peggy, I have a page on my fish blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and near the top of that list, I have two different free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and give you a lot more questions to ask out here. ;-) The main thing you want to do is "Fishless Cycle" your tank to make it safe for your fish before you bring them home. There are a couple of ways to do this listed on that A to Z page. There are also products like Bio-Spira or it's successor, "Dr. Tim's One And Only" http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html which you can use to "instantly" cycle the tank. As you take one or both of those free tutorials, you can be fishless cycling your tank and that will give you the time to go to your local stores to see what fish are available that you like. Once you have some in mind, go to http://fish.mongabay.com and put in the common name or Latin name (preferred) and look at the profile/care sheet on that fish to make sure it's compatible with your local water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:35:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29017	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

Danios say, WE'RE HAPPY FISH! But if they develop cancer years from now, I guess we'll blame it on April's high ammonia levels. ;) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN KD7POE" <dumont53@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:33 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Yes it can be done without killing them, but no matter what it will have an effect on them. Years ago we did not know about "Fishless Cycling" so we did it that way and we paid close attention to our tanks. But progress and time has taught us that there are other ways. Why shouldn't we take the modern approach and help our fish as much as we can. As in many other aspects of our life, these fish may not be always around for us to showcase in our tanks. In the mean time I think we should do all we can to offer them the best possible environment we can. In other words let's be the best "Fish Aquarists that we can" Lets take our Hobby serious. John in Nevada Deenerz@... wrote: Well they are fish. I choose not to anthropomorphize things. In a large enough tank it can be done without killing them. I have not had to start a tank from scratch in years. I just harvest filters or gravel from another running tank. -Mike What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium What about the POOR danios !!! You are sentencing them to Death. How would you like it if someone did that to you, John in Nevada Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: Or you could danio cycle the tank. With just a couple of danios and work up. I began with three. Fishless cycling is too intimidating for me. :) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Hi Peggy, I have a page on my fish blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and near the top of that list, I have two different free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and give you a lot more questions to ask out here. ;-) The main thing you want to do is "Fishless Cycle" your tank to make it safe for your fish before you bring them home. There are a couple of ways to do this listed on that A to Z page. There are also products like Bio-Spira or it's successor, "Dr. Tim's One And Only" http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/productguide.html which you can use to "instantly" cycle the tank. As you take one or both of those free tutorials, you can be fishless cycling your tank and that will give you the time to go to your local stores to see what fish are available that you like. Once you have some in mind, go to http://fish.mongabay.com and put in the common name or Latin name (preferred) and look at the profile/care sheet on that fish to make sure it's compatible with your local water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080804-0, 08/04/2008 Tested on: 8/4/2008 9:35:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29018	From: jett07002	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st F.W. Aquarium again

I am always leery of buying other peoples' stuff. You really don't know what you're getting till it's too late. Of course, IF it works, then it is good to save a few bucks. If it doesn't you have to either ditch it, or search for parts, put them together, clean the old equipment, etc., etc. and if you have to buy a new one, then your out even more money. There is no way any one here can tell you if it's a good buy without seeing it. If it's a couple years old, as you say, sitting in a garage I would suspect those washers and fittings have to be pretty dried up by now.Personally, I can't be bothered with all that. I get the stuff new. If it doesn't work, fit, or do what I thought it should, I take it back to the store with the receipt. 9 out of 10 times, no problem. BTW, a book is a book. You can always tell if that's in good shape --meaning no torn out pages, pages stuck together. So I don't include that in my comments above. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29019	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

Just so people are warned, Dr. Tim is indeed knowledgeable in his field; however, he refuses to state the ingredients in his new product, which leaves open the possibilyty that it does not actually have all three kinds of necessary bacteria. He makes claims that require that the product contains three particular strains of bacteria but refuses to back that up by telling us the bacteria are there. Some people here trust him anyway; I do not. I understand that that the new Night Out product is exactly the same thing? I had that better pinned down at one point. I think actually it may be the product whose development led to the company that employed him and he parting company, and also that it does list its ingredients. Has anyone actually tried either One and ONly or Night Out? I'd be very interested in knowing what sort of success people are actually having with them. Lenny, on that claim that fish in new tanks suffer permanent gill damage, despite the claim you yourself frequently make that at ordinary ph levels it takes sky high levels of ammonia to even be toxic; how do specifically know this, and how do you specifically tell if a fish has suffered gill damage? I take it you think this permanent gill damage is less obvious than the fish chronically struggling to breathe. I mean, either the fish's gills are damaged or they are not, and if they are it should be possible to examine ht fish and tell. So tell us what to look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:04 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium A 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia from Ace Hardware will fishless cycle many tanks without harming the fish.... or if one is in a hurry, then Dr. Tim's One And Only type product that instantly cycles a tank will work. Just be careful not to buy just any brand as many of them do not work as advertised but I trust Dr. Tim Hovanec, the inventor of Bio-Spira, to only put out a product that does work. Lenny Vasbinder

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29020	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)

The 3.5" is just the goldie's body - her tail is at least 4.5."  (I thought her size might be relevant as far as getting a compatible tank mate for her.) --- On Tue, 8/5/08, Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@...> wrote: From: Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 6:52 PM I had a rosy red minnow in with my beautiful veiltail. She's large - about 3.5"; the minnow died yesterday -- I assume from old age; we'd had him for about two years. I'd like to get another "friend" for the goldie. We have a platy tank, and I thought about putting a large male platy in with the goldie, but don't know if that's wise. Would a male platy harass the goldie? Your thoughts, please. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29021	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

I have no stories to tell about ammonia, but regarding nitrites I did have a 0.5ppm spike once, and guess what alerted me? The fish were all hovering at the surface, gasping for air. The chemical was definitely impacting their ability to breathe. The tetras I cycled my tank with died within a year. Lenny is not alone in the belief that ammonia and nitrites permanently damage fish gills. The other forums I frequent agree wholeheartedly! I don’t know if it is a visual examination thing, however. Is it like a chemical burn that leaves scar tissue instead of functioning cells? It would seem more logical for it to be an efficiency thing. That the gills just can’t extract the oxygen or pass it into the bloodstream as well. Time will tell with Night Out. A lot of people had success with Bio Spira and before that, the competitive products just weren’t comparable. I’d definitely buy Dr. Tim’s product with confidence. My company refuses to divulge “trade secrets” as well. Just a good business practice. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Just so people are warned, Dr. Tim is indeed knowledgeable in his field; however, he refuses to state the ingredients in his new product, which leaves open the possibilyty that it does not actually have all three kinds of necessary bacteria. He makes claims that require that the product contains three particular strains of bacteria but refuses to back that up by telling us the bacteria are there. Some people here trust him anyway; I do not. I understand that that the new Night Out product is exactly the same thing? I had that better pinned down at one point. I think actually it may be the product whose development led to the company that employed him and he parting company, and also that it does list its ingredients. Has anyone actually tried either One and ONly or Night Out? I'd be very interested in knowing what sort of success people are actually having with them. Lenny, on that claim that fish in new tanks suffer permanent gill damage, despite the claim you yourself frequently make that at ordinary ph levels it takes sky high levels of ammonia to even be toxic; how do specifically know this, and how do you specifically tell if a fish has suffered gill damage? I take it you think this permanent gill damage is less obvious than the fish chronically struggling to breathe. I mean, either the fish's gills are damaged or they are not, and if they are it should be possible to examine ht fish and tell. So tell us what to look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:04 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium A 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia from Ace Hardware will fishless cycle many tanks without harming the fish.... or if one is in a hurry, then Dr. Tim's One And Only type product that instantly cycles a tank will work. Just be careful not to buy just any brand as many of them do not work as advertised but I trust Dr. Tim Hovanec, the inventor of Bio-Spira, to only put out a product that does work. Lenny Vasbinder [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29022	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

Dora, There are such things as trade secrets. One does not blithely give them out. Do you know how to make Coca-Cola? I doubt it. Can you find the recipe? Not on your life. Trade secret. If the product is patented, the secret is out. If only the process is patented, then he can keep mum on whether or not it has the proper bacteria. If the product works as advertised--I don't know, I haven't tried it--you have no reason to doubt him or anyone of his supporters. OK, here is the slight disclaimer portion. In a previous life, I knew Tim Hovenac. I have met him on several occasions (tough to get together when you live on opposite coasts), corresponded with him, and even oversaw his work on a forum light years ago in Internet time. I have not seen or heard from him in about 15 years, so he may have changed, but that is not likely. I'd trust him. I don't know if any of his papers are available in the web, but do a search, and you will find that he knows his stuff. He has been working on water quality issues in the aquarium for a long time. He is also a hobbyist. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Just so people are warned, Dr. Tim is indeed knowledgeable in his field; however, he refuses to state the ingredients in his new product, which leaves open the possibilyty that it does not actually have all three kinds of necessary bacteria. He makes claims that require that the product contains three particular strains of bacteria but refuses to back that up by telling us the bacteria are there. Some people here trust him anyway; I do not. I understand that that the new Night Out product is exactly the same thing? I had that better pinned down at one point. I think actually it may be the product whose development led to the company that employed him and he parting company, and also that it does list its ingredients. Has anyone actually tried either One and ONly or Night Out? I'd be very interested in knowing what sort of success people are actually having with them. Lenny, on that claim that fish in new tanks suffer permanent gill damage, despite the claim you yourself frequently make that at ordinary ph levels it takes sky high levels of ammonia to even be toxic; how do specifically know this, and how do you specifically tell if a fish has suffered gill damage? I take it you think this permanent gill damage is less obvious than the fish chronically struggling to breathe. I mean, either the fish's gills are damaged or they are not, and if they are it should be possible to examine ht fish and tell. So tell us what to look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:04 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium A 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia from Ace Hardware will fishless cycle many tanks without harming the fish.... or if one is in a hurry, then Dr. Tim's One And Only type product that instantly cycles a tank will work. Just be careful not to buy just any brand as many of them do not work as advertised but I trust Dr. Tim Hovanec, the inventor of Bio-Spira, to only put out a product that does work. Lenny Vasbinder

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29023	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

Google "fishless cycling" and you should get a number of pages about how to do it, in detail. Briefly, you use plain ammonia (no additives) and put enough in the tank to get an ammonia reading of 5 ppm. Each day, at about the same time, add enough ammonia to reach the 5 ppm level again. After a week or so, start watching your nitrites. When all the ammonia is used in a day's time, and the nitrites read 0, your tank is cycled, and you can add fish to it. Plants can survive this regimen, so don't be bashful about planting while waiting for the cycle to start. You can pretty much add a full load of fish to the tank after this regimen, right away. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K'lyn Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 2:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium We cycled our tank with 10 danios in Feburary and all of them are still happily swimming and very active. I wasn't aware of fishless cycling. How much ammonia and how long? If you put your fish in too soon what would be the difference between putting your fish through cycling a tank and shortening their lifespans or adding them too soon with ammonia in the tank and killing them that way? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "tillmanalbany" <tillmanalbany@...> wrote: > > I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my > 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly > simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good > combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to > deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you > have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29024	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st F.W. Aquarium again

If the equipment has been sitting in the garage, unused, for a couple of years, I'd skip it. Too many things can do bad things in the garage, and make the equipment next to useless. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 1:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st F.W. Aquarium again Thank you, everyone, I learned from your postings and I now have our 30 gallon tank outside full of water, checking for leaks. Next question: Since I only have the tank, light, and the under gravel filter, (no pump), I have been checking out Craigslist and I found the following items for $20, can I use these? "A small lot of fish tank equipment. Two heaters, complete Magnum filter, parts for a Magnum filter, thermometer, box of charcoal, books." I am especially curious about the Magnum filter and how to sanitize it, if it would work for me. These items have been sitting in their garage for a couple of years. Thanks again! Newbie Peggy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29025	From: Amalthea X	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Goldfish question

Hi all. My mom has a pond in her backyard. It's somewhere around 5500 gallons, is aerated with a large waterfall, gets salt treatments, and it's got koi and comets as well as a ton of plants, frogs, etc. She's got one adopted goldfish, nothing fancy, that has slowly, over the past few months been getting bigger and bigger. I'm familiar with dropsy, and this isn't it. This goldfish is VERY round, but the scales aren't popped, his eyes look fine, he's got energy and is eating. He just looks like a regular goldfish that happens to have swallowed a beach ball. Does anyone have any idea what could be the issue with this fish? No other fish are acting "odd" and this is actually the first year there were no post spawning injuries of any kind (the large koi get extremely rough and usually we get at least one or two with a small abrasion from the spawning.) There are tons of new babies, and everyone seems extremely happy, this fish is just starting to look a wee freakish. Amalthea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29026	From: Angel	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

Goldfish get swim bladder easier then other fish.  If u feed them pees cut up or just the greens from the flake food it will help them poop and relieve the air in its belly. ----- Original Message ---- From: Amalthea X <amalthea23@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 10:16:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish question Hi all. My mom has a pond in her backyard. It's somewhere around 5500 gallons, is aerated with a large waterfall, gets salt treatments, and it's got koi and comets as well as a ton of plants, frogs, etc. She's got one adopted goldfish, nothing fancy, that has slowly, over the past few months been getting bigger and bigger. I'm familiar with dropsy, and this isn't it. This goldfish is VERY round, but the scales aren't popped, his eyes look fine, he's got energy and is eating. He just looks like a regular goldfish that happens to have swallowed a beach ball. Does anyone have any idea what could be the issue with this fish? No other fish are acting "odd" and this is actually the first year there were no post spawning injuries of any kind (the large koi get extremely rough and usually we get at least one or two with a small abrasion from the spawning.) There are tons of new babies, and everyone seems extremely happy, this fish is just starting to look a wee freakish. Amalthea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29027	From: Angel	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

This is a great group for ponds and goldfish.  agardenwithwater@yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Amalthea X <amalthea23@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 10:16:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish question Hi all. My mom has a pond in her backyard. It's somewhere around 5500 gallons, is aerated with a large waterfall, gets salt treatments, and it's got koi and comets as well as a ton of plants, frogs, etc. She's got one adopted goldfish, nothing fancy, that has slowly, over the past few months been getting bigger and bigger. I'm familiar with dropsy, and this isn't it. This goldfish is VERY round, but the scales aren't popped, his eyes look fine, he's got energy and is eating. He just looks like a regular goldfish that happens to have swallowed a beach ball. Does anyone have any idea what could be the issue with this fish? No other fish are acting "odd" and this is actually the first year there were no post spawning injuries of any kind (the large koi get extremely rough and usually we get at least one or two with a small abrasion from the spawning.) There are tons of new babies, and everyone seems extremely happy, this fish is just starting to look a wee freakish. Amalthea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29028	From: Angel	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)

goldfish put out amonia in their urine like cats do.  Better to add more goldfish unless it is a really big tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 8:29:40 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) The 3.5" is just the goldie's body - her tail is at least 4.5."  (I thought her size might be relevant as far as getting a compatible tank mate for her.) --- On Tue, 8/5/08, Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 6:52 PM I had a rosy red minnow in with my beautiful veiltail. She's large - about 3.5"; the minnow died yesterday -- I assume from old age; we'd had him for about two years. I'd like to get another "friend" for the goldie. We have a platy tank, and I thought about putting a large male platy in with the goldie, but don't know if that's wise. Would a male platy harass the goldie? Your thoughts, please. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29029	From: Angel	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and bacteria into ur tank.  ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)

Platy's are tropical fish. Goldfish are cool/colder water fish. If you have the goldfish at 72F, the platy would not be comfortable. If you raised the temp, the goldfish would not be as comfortable. What size tank do you have for the goldfish? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) I had a rosy red minnow in with my beautiful veiltail. She's large - about 3.5"; the minnow died yesterday -- I assume from old age; we'd had him for about two years. I'd like to get another "friend" for the goldie. We have a platy tank, and I thought about putting a large male platy in with the goldie, but don't know if that's wise. Would a male platy harass the goldie? Your thoughts, please. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080805-0, 08/05/2008 Tested on: 8/5/2008 9:34:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29031	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

Dora, We've had this conversation before and you are way too anal retentive about this "ingredients" issue. Have you ever heard of a patent pending status? Until one receives a patent, they don't usually list their ingredients. There are thousands of products out there that do not list their ingredients and many of them are in your home right now and you use them every day. The bottle says that it contains the necessary strains of nitrifying bacteria and since Dr. Tim is one of the world's leaders in research and development of these types of products and his research has been peer reviewed by many others in the industry. As far as the damage done to fish, there have been countless necropsies (fish autopsy) done to expensive (and inexpensive) goldfish and Koi by veterinarians and other qualified people to determine the cause of death of their fish. If you go to my blog's "Health and Disease" page, I have links to these necropsies if you want to learn how to do one yourself. And it's not just gill damage. It's many organs that are damaged by the high ammonia/nitrite levels... which are both poisonous to fish. Sure, a higher pH and temp make ammonia even more toxic but any ammonia is still not a good thing. It would be comparable to you eating a little poison or a lot of poison... neither are good for you. There is simply no good reason to "cycle with fish" any longer if one has access to a 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia or one of the more expensive products like Dr. Tim's One And Only... or if they have access to another healthy fish tank where they can borrow some filter media. I know lots of newbies get stuck with "Cycling With Fish" due to bad advice from their local pet store employees and I have a detailed article on the safest way to "Cycle With Fish" on my A to Z of fish keeping page on my blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 6:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium Just so people are warned, Dr. Tim is indeed knowledgeable in his field; however, he refuses to state the ingredients in his new product, which leaves open the possibilyty that it does not actually have all three kinds of necessary bacteria. He makes claims that require that the product contains three particular strains of bacteria but refuses to back that up by telling us the bacteria are there. Some people here trust him anyway; I do not. I understand that that the new Night Out product is exactly the same thing? I had that better pinned down at one point. I think actually it may be the product whose development led to the company that employed him and he parting company, and also that it does list its ingredients. Has anyone actually tried either One and ONly or Night Out? I'd be very interested in knowing what sort of success people are actually having with them. Lenny, on that claim that fish in new tanks suffer permanent gill damage, despite the claim you yourself frequently make that at ordinary ph levels it takes sky high levels of ammonia to even be toxic; how do specifically know this, and how do you specifically tell if a fish has suffered gill damage? I take it you think this permanent gill damage is less obvious than the fish chronically struggling to breathe. I mean, either the fish's gills are damaged or they are not, and if they are it should be possible to examine ht fish and tell. So tell us what to look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:04 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1st Fresh Water Aquarium A 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia from Ace Hardware will fishless cycle many tanks without harming the fish.... or if one is in a hurry, then Dr. Tim's One And Only type product that instantly cycles a tank will work. Just be careful not to buy just any brand as many of them do not work as advertised but I trust Dr. Tim Hovanec, the inventor of Bio-Spira, to only put out a product that does work. Lenny Vasbinder _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080805-0, 08/05/2008 Tested on: 8/5/2008 9:51:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29032	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)

All fish put out ammonia in their urine... just like cats, dogs and us people too. The Skeptical Aquarist even fishless cycled a tank by peeing in it. He said the hardest part was balancing on the ladder and stopping the flow at one tablespoon. LOL Goldfish do not put out any more than any other comparably sized fish... it's just that goldfish have a lot of body mass compared to a zebra danio or some other small minnow type fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) goldfish put out amonia in their urine like cats do. Better to add more goldfish unless it is a really big tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@... <mailto:shrlycat%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 8:29:40 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) The 3.5" is just the goldie's body - her tail is at least 4.5." (I thought her size might be relevant as far as getting a compatible tank mate for her.) --- On Tue, 8/5/08, Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 6:52 PM I had a rosy red minnow in with my beautiful veiltail. She's large - about 3.5"; the minnow died yesterday -- I assume from old age; we'd had him for about two years. I'd like to get another "friend" for the goldie. We have a platy tank, and I thought about putting a large male platy in with the goldie, but don't know if that's wise. Would a male platy harass the goldie? Your thoughts, please. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080805-0, 08/05/2008 Tested on: 8/5/2008 9:59:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29033	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

It might be one of the round body types of goldfish. You give us very little to go on here. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amalthea X Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish question Hi all. My mom has a pond in her backyard. It's somewhere around 5500 gallons, is aerated with a large waterfall, gets salt treatments, and it's got koi and comets as well as a ton of plants, frogs, etc. She's got one adopted goldfish, nothing fancy, that has slowly, over the past few months been getting bigger and bigger. I'm familiar with dropsy, and this isn't it. This goldfish is VERY round, but the scales aren't popped, his eyes look fine, he's got energy and is eating. He just looks like a regular goldfish that happens to have swallowed a beach ball. Does anyone have any idea what could be the issue with this fish? No other fish are acting "odd" and this is actually the first year there were no post spawning injuries of any kind (the large koi get extremely rough and usually we get at least one or two with a small abrasion from the spawning.) There are tons of new babies, and everyone seems extremely happy, this fish is just starting to look a wee freakish. Amalthea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29034	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st F.W. Aquarium again

Check with Marineland.com on the Magnum filter http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/products/productdetail.aspx?id=20 54 <http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/products/productdetail.aspx?id=2 054&cid=1988&mid=3226> &cid=1988&mid=3226 to see what they would recommend. They may sell an O-ring kit. You can plug in the pump section to see if it works. Don't run it for long... just enough to see/hear it working. You could clean it using vinegar to break down any hard water deposits. Then use a very salty solution to soak all of the parts (except the motor) as this salty solution will kill off 99% of pathogens that might somehow still be alive after years in the garage. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1st F.W. Aquarium again Thank you, everyone, I learned from your postings and I now have our 30 gallon tank outside full of water, checking for leaks. Next question: Since I only have the tank, light, and the under gravel filter, (no pump), I have been checking out Craigslist and I found the following items for $20, can I use these? "A small lot of fish tank equipment. Two heaters, complete Magnum filter, parts for a Magnum filter, thermometer, box of charcoal, books." I am especially curious about the Magnum filter and how to sanitize it, if it would work for me. These items have been sitting in their garage for a couple of years. Thanks again! Newbie Peggy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080805-0, 08/05/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 12:38:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2008
Subject: Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium

On my blog, I have a page called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and right near the top of that page, I have the links to detailed step-by-step instructions for doing a "Fishless Cycle". I think \\Steve// touched on it also out here. Also near the top of that page, I have links to two different FREE online fish keeping tutorials that will walk your through all of the basics of fish keeping. By doing a fishless cycle, you are adding the ammonia that starts the nitrogen "cycle" and you build up your good Nitrifying bacteria colonies in the tank and filter system until the N-bacteria are handling 5mg/l (5 ppm) of ammonia within a 12 hour period and converting that ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate. At this point, the tank is "fishless cycled" and then you do a 90% water change with dechlored water and then add your fish. The N-Bacteria live on surface areas of the tank and mostly on all the surface areas of the filter media (sponges, floss pads, etc.) so when you do the 90% water change, you are not losing your N-Bacteria. My blog also has a long article on proper filter maintenance so you do not harm your N-bacteria colonies when doing filter maintenance. The plain ammonia in a bottle is the same ammonia that is part of urea/urine produced by most animals. So, by using the bottle ammonia, we can "fishless cycle" a tank without having to put the fish through the arduous process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K'lyn Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 1:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 1st Fresh Water Aquarium We cycled our tank with 10 danios in Feburary and all of them are still happily swimming and very active. I wasn't aware of fishless cycling. How much ammonia and how long? If you put your fish in too soon what would be the difference between putting your fish through cycling a tank and shortening their lifespans or adding them too soon with ammonia in the tank and killing them that way? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "tillmanalbany" <tillmanalbany@...> wrote: > > I am new and this is my 1st post with Aquatic Life. I am setting up my > 1st 30 gallon fresh water aquarium tomorrow. I want something fairly > simple and beaituful to enjoy in our kitchen. What would be a good > combination of inexpensive fish for this tank? Are live plants easy to > deal with, or should I go with fake? What other suggesions would you > have for a first-timer like me? Thank you, Peggy > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080805-0, 08/05/2008 Tested on: 8/5/2008 1:20:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080805-0, 08/05/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 12:46:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29036	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)

The goldie is in a 20 long; I don't think that's big enough for two goldies. The platy tank doesn't have a heater, and they are thriving. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Platy's are tropical fish. Goldfish are cool/colder water fish. If you > have the goldfish at 72F, the platy would not be comfortable. If you raised > the temp, the goldfish would not be as comfortable. What size tank do you > have for the goldfish? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Shirley Reichard > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a > platy maybe?) > > I had a rosy red minnow in with my beautiful veiltail. She's large - about > 3.5"; the minnow died yesterday -- I assume from old age; we'd had him for > about two years. I'd like to get another "friend" for the goldie. We have a > platy tank, and I thought about putting a large male platy in with the > goldie, but don't know if that's wise. Would a male platy harass the goldie? > Your thoughts, please. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080805-0, 08/05/2008 > Tested on: 8/5/2008 9:34:26 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29037	From: junglejingles	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?

Hi, sure I would... Neither of these have to do with an internal treatment. The thought of using Melafix and/or Aquarisol was an expansion to the thought of the previous poster when he said, "my first line of defense would be using Melafix (which seems to be available everywhere)in the water column to see if that mild antibacterial treatment would give the sick fish enough of a kick..." The discussion of an internal protozoan is presented as another possible answer to the problem, separate from the one described by the previous poster. I was trying to add my thoughts as a follow-up, but somehow it looks like it ended up being a separate post. I'm trying to figure out how to post to the same thread on this board! Sorry for the confusion! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Clarice, Would you please explain your rationale for using > Melafix and/or Aquarisol as treatment(s) for an internal infection > when neither one is absorpable internally. Thank you, Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Jung" <mariajungle@> > wrote: > > > > What you describe could be attributed to an intestinal protazoan > disease; > > the darkening coloration and the swimming pattern. As Lenny says, > it would > > be a good idea to quarantine this fish, protozoan diseases are > highly > > infectious. A treatment (which I believe can be safely used in > conjunction > > with the Melafix) is to use a copper medication. Personally I like > > Aquarisol. This is another less invasive treatment and will not > harm your > > other fish or plants, though it will kill snails and other > invertebrates. > > > > (A protozoan intensive medication would be metronidazole, with > about a 1% > > addition to the food and about 12 mg per liter added to the water. > But I > > cannot say for sure that this is what your fish is dealing with.) > > > > Good luck! > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:40 AM, giuseppesalvato > <giuseppesalvato@> > > wrote: > > > > > I have a Pristella Maxillaris in distress showing a dark area > in the > > > intestins at the bladder level. I always noticed a small dark > area in > > > the same place in that fish, but now the dark area is bigger and > the > > > fish tends to hide in a cave during the day, swimming in circles > almost > > > horizontally. The Pristella doesn't eat almost anything at this > point. > > > When I turn the lights off it gets out of the cave and swims with > the > > > other fish. > > > Is there any medicine you would recommend? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Giuseppe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Humans, the only animals with ego... > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29038	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

How do you cure it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and bacteria into ur tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29039	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: My new 20 gallon aquarium

I upgraded to a 20 gallon aquarium. I like it alot better, the fish like it alot better, and it looks alot nicer. I have photos and movies of it in two folders at Webshots. My photography efforts aren't more successful than those of most other people who have photos of their aquariums at Webshots. I also don't have time to properly clean up color and sharpness issues, not even to get that image of 12 fish lined up under their rock looking at me, so what the Kodak Easyshare program couldn't fix is how it looks. I have 8 danios, 1 little gold tetra that thinks its a danio, 6 flame tetras, 4 pristella tetras, and 6 black phantom tetra. http://good-times.webshots.com/album/565070155zMJXov http://pets.webshots.com/album/565020237wNpdck Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29040	From: vivian bradish	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Looking for fish that are peaceful but a little more exotic than wha

I have a 40 gallon, 4 coreys, 6 asst platys, 1 black skirt , he is old and huge ( gotta get him 2 friends) and I have some teeny tiny male endlers. I am tired of the tetras, although bleeding hearts and cardinals are pretty, I would like something peaceful and a little more exotic/interesting. Any suggestions. Viv

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29041	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?

Alright, your clarification is much appreciated, thank you. I'm sure where you can see how this recommendation could lead to confusion since neither Melafix nor Aquarisol can treat an internal infection of any kind (bacterial or protozoan). When trying to post two different messages in the same thread, its often best to reply to each member's message separately if the gist of them are not related. In this way too, the original poster will know exactly who (and what) you're replying to, and the rest of the membership can follow the threads more easily. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "junglejingles" <mariajungle@...> wrote: > > > Hi, sure I would... > > Neither of these have to do with an internal treatment. The thought > of using Melafix and/or Aquarisol was an expansion to the thought of > the previous poster when he said, "my first line of defense would be > using Melafix (which seems to be available everywhere)in the water > column to see if that mild antibacterial treatment would give the > sick fish enough of a kick..." > > The discussion of an internal protozoan is presented as another > possible answer to the problem, separate from the one described by > the previous poster. > > I was trying to add my thoughts as a follow-up, but somehow it looks > like it ended up being a separate post. I'm trying to figure out how > to post to the same thread on this board! > > Sorry for the confusion! > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Clarice, Would you please explain your rationale for using > > Melafix and/or Aquarisol as treatment(s) for an internal infection > > when neither one is absorpable internally. Thank you, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Jung" <mariajungle@> > > wrote: > > > > > > What you describe could be attributed to an intestinal protazoan > > disease; > > > the darkening coloration and the swimming pattern. As Lenny says, > > it would > > > be a good idea to quarantine this fish, protozoan diseases are > > highly > > > infectious. A treatment (which I believe can be safely used in > > conjunction > > > with the Melafix) is to use a copper medication. Personally I like > > > Aquarisol. This is another less invasive treatment and will not > > harm your > > > other fish or plants, though it will kill snails and other > > invertebrates. > > > > > > (A protozoan intensive medication would be metronidazole, with > > about a 1% > > > addition to the food and about 12 mg per liter added to the > water. > > But I > > > cannot say for sure that this is what your fish is dealing with.) > > > > > > Good luck! > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:40 AM, giuseppesalvato > > <giuseppesalvato@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I have a Pristella Maxillaris in distress showing a dark area > > in the > > > > intestins at the bladder level. I always noticed a small dark > > area in > > > > the same place in that fish, but now the dark area is bigger > and > > the > > > > fish tends to hide in a cave during the day, swimming in > circles > > almost > > > > horizontally. The Pristella doesn't eat almost anything at this > > point. > > > > When I turn the lights off it gets out of the cave and swims > with > > the > > > > other fish. > > > > Is there any medicine you would recommend? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Humans, the only animals with ego... > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29042	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)

It could be that your room temperature is high enough to bring the tank into the tropical temp range. You should probably have a heater on the platy tank so that the tank stays in that range consistently. You're right that the 20G long isn't large enough for two goldfish. IMO, it's not large enough for one goldfish either but if you are doing frequent PWC's and have some live plants, excellent filtration, etc., to improve the ecology, it can probably work. The reason that 20G is not enough water volume for a single goldfish is that a single adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish and we would never put 500 1" fish of any kind in only 20G of water. I know there are so many care sheets all over the internet and in books that say 10G is sufficient for goldfish but it's simply bad information that has been duplicated over and over. In my own goldfish care sheet, I have the minimum recommendation as a 55G 4' long tank for two round-bodied goldfish and a 6' long tank as the minimum sized tank for a single long-bodied goldfish but long-bodied goldfish should really be in an adequately sized pond. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 2:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) The goldie is in a 20 long; I don't think that's big enough for two goldies. The platy tank doesn't have a heater, and they are thriving. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Platy's are tropical fish. Goldfish are cool/colder water fish. If you > have the goldfish at 72F, the platy would not be comfortable. If you raised > the temp, the goldfish would not be as comfortable. What size tank do you > have for the goldfish? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Shirley Reichard > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a > platy maybe?) > > I had a rosy red minnow in with my beautiful veiltail. She's large - about > 3.5"; the minnow died yesterday -- I assume from old age; we'd had him for > about two years. I'd like to get another "friend" for the goldie. We have a > platy tank, and I thought about putting a large male platy in with the > goldie, but don't know if that's wise. Would a male platy harass the goldie? > Your thoughts, please. > > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080805-0, 08/05/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 9:05:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29043	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

Sadly, I don't have much more than that to go with. It's all info I got over the phone. I'm going to take a peek at the fish myself tomorrow when I'm over there. In the meantime, I'm going to have her toss them all some peas and see if that helps. Amalthea --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > It might be one of the round body types of goldfish. You give us very > little to go on here. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amalthea X > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish question > > Hi all. My mom has a pond in her backyard. It's somewhere around 5500 > gallons, is aerated with a large waterfall, gets salt treatments, and > it's got koi and comets as well as a ton of plants, frogs, etc. She's > got one adopted goldfish, nothing fancy, that has slowly, over the > past few months been getting bigger and bigger. I'm familiar with > dropsy, and this isn't it. This goldfish is VERY round, but the > scales aren't popped, his eyes look fine, he's got energy and is > eating. He just looks like a regular goldfish that happens to have > swallowed a beach ball. > Does anyone have any idea what could be the issue with this fish? No > other fish are acting "odd" and this is actually the first year there > were no post spawning injuries of any kind (the large koi get > extremely rough and usually we get at least one or two with a small > abrasion from the spawning.) There are tons of new babies, and > everyone seems extremely happy, this fish is just starting to look a > wee freakish. > Amalthea >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29044	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: VERY new Aquarium

we bought a 46 gal Aquarium, about two weeks ago and let it run for one week before putting fish in. We bought 5 little gold fish to start our tank. We had the water temp at 80 and lowered it to 72. Last night we lost 1 of the fish and today another. Any help would be appreciated...I don't want lose anymore and am afraid to add. Thanks Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29045	From: Angel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

Wash it really well.  Look under leaves. I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it.  I think I just might just to know if it works.  ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. How do you cure it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and bacteria into ur tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29046	From: Angel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)

LOL, sick! ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 10:59:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) All fish put out ammonia in their urine... just like cats, dogs and us people too. The Skeptical Aquarist even fishless cycled a tank by peeing in it. He said the hardest part was balancing on the ladder and stopping the flow at one tablespoon. LOL Goldfish do not put out any more than any other comparably sized fish... it's just that goldfish have a lot of body mass compared to a zebra danio or some other small minnow type fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) goldfish put out amonia in their urine like cats do. Better to add more goldfish unless it is a really big tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@yahoo. com <mailto:shrlycat% 40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 8:29:40 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) The 3.5" is just the goldie's body - her tail is at least 4.5." (I thought her size might be relevant as far as getting a compatible tank mate for her.) --- On Tue, 8/5/08, Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 6:52 PM I had a rosy red minnow in with my beautiful veiltail. She's large - about 3.5"; the minnow died yesterday -- I assume from old age; we'd had him for about two years. I'd like to get another "friend" for the goldie. We have a platy tank, and I thought about putting a large male platy in with the goldie, but don't know if that's wise. Would a male platy harass the goldie? Your thoughts, please. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080805-0, 08/05/2008 Tested on: 8/5/2008 9:59:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29047	From: Angel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

u might want to cut up the pees first.  Not sure how they digest the skin.. I always cute them in half atleast. ----- Original Message ---- From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow! <amalthea23@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 12:13:41 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish question Sadly, I don't have much more than that to go with. It's all info I got over the phone. I'm going to take a peek at the fish myself tomorrow when I'm over there. In the meantime, I'm going to have her toss them all some peas and see if that helps.. Amalthea --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > It might be one of the round body types of goldfish. You give us very > little to go on here. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Amalthea X > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish question > > Hi all. My mom has a pond in her backyard. It's somewhere around 5500 > gallons, is aerated with a large waterfall, gets salt treatments, and > it's got koi and comets as well as a ton of plants, frogs, etc. She's > got one adopted goldfish, nothing fancy, that has slowly, over the > past few months been getting bigger and bigger. I'm familiar with > dropsy, and this isn't it. This goldfish is VERY round, but the > scales aren't popped, his eyes look fine, he's got energy and is > eating. He just looks like a regular goldfish that happens to have > swallowed a beach ball. > Does anyone have any idea what could be the issue with this fish? No > other fish are acting "odd" and this is actually the first year there > were no post spawning injuries of any kind (the large koi get > extremely rough and usually we get at least one or two with a small > abrasion from the spawning.) There are tons of new babies, and > everyone seems extremely happy, this fish is just starting to look a > wee freakish. > Amalthea > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29048	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: filter cleaning question

I'm taking Lenny's advice and going to clean my filter this week on my 54 gallon that has been running since March....but I have a 'silly' question......I've read all the filter cleaning literature - will the aquarium be ok with the filter, spray bar and heater off for the hour or so it takes me to clean everything? All those listed items need to be scrubbed. Do I need to get an air pump for times like this when I need to clean? Sorry for my ignorance, if this seems like a really dumb question! Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29049	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

You are simply making the same mistake that so many newbies make by not knowing about "The Nitrogen Cycle" and how it affects fish. You cannot simply add fish to a tank... especially not five goldfish in a 46G tank. Return one of them and keep no more than two in your tank. Even with only two, you'll need a bigger tank in the next year or you will have to do frequent (weekly or more often) 25% PWC's (partial water changes) and lots of filter maintenance and vacuuming of the gravel to keep the tank reasonably non-toxic. Go to my blog and look at the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and I have links to two FREE online tutorials that you should take so you can learn the basics. Feel free to ask lots of questions out here. In the meantime, start doing daily 25% PWC's until you get a Master Test Kit and then you can start testing your water daily and do a 25% PWC whenever your ammonia or nitrite level gets to 1.0ppm. You are now stuck with "Cycling With Fish". I have a long article about that on the A to Z page also. But basically, the ammonia levels in the tank are building up every day so you need to do the PWC's to remove/dilute the ammonia but you can't do much more than 25% at a time or you risk changing the water parameters (pH, temp, etc.) too much too fast which can put the fish into osmotic or pH shock which is also deadly. There are water conditioners like Prime that will make the ammonia less toxic and you can add a pinch of salt which will help protect against nitrite poisoning but it would have been much better if your store told you about "Fishless Cycling" or sold you Dr. Tim's One And Only which can "instantly" cycle a tank before adding fish but you are beyond that stage at this point. Since you have already gotten bad advice from the store, do not let them sell you any other chemical additives other than the ones I have mentioned as there are many things out there that do more harm than good. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] VERY new Aquarium we bought a 46 gal Aquarium, about two weeks ago and let it run for one week before putting fish in. We bought 5 little gold fish to start our tank. We had the water temp at 80 and lowered it to 72. Last night we lost 1 of the fish and today another. Any help would be appreciated...I don't want lose anymore and am afraid to add. Thanks Janis _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 11:58:52 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29050	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

NOOOOO... not one part water, one part bleach. That's a 50% bleach solution and would quickly kill the plants... but you are right about it killing all the parasites too... LOL. There are some that use one part bleach to 20 parts water as a two minute dip and even that can harm some plants. Here's a couple of pages with info on disinfecting/sanitizing plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Wash it really well. Look under leaves. I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it. I think I just might just to know if it works. ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. How do you cure it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and bacteria into ur tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 12:02:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29051	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?)

LOL... Sick, but true! Below is a snip from his own article about "Fishless Cycling" ... http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml ----START SNIP---- I raised some eyebrows when I revealed in a web forum that I hadn't been ransacking my neighborhood in a search for a pure non-sudsing ammonia with no added dyes and perfumes, when I could always produce at least a few drops of a completely natural, though more personal, source of ammonia. The truth is, long before the nitrating cycle was community knowledge, I have always begun new planted aquaria by adding a few tablespoons of my urine. Good grief! The uproar at AquariaCentral sent me back to the books. I soon found out that urine actually has a very small NH3 content. Urine has a specific gravity of about 1.017-1.020, owing to its dissolved solids, about 60% of which are organic substances. Besides ammonia, those organics include urea, uric acid, and creatine, which are all bacterially decomposed to form carbon dioxide--— and more ammonia. The other 40% of the dissolved solids in urine are inorganic Na, Cl, (the "salt" content), K, PO4 and SO4. Frankly, it all sounds to me like stuff you'd be adding anyway. There are no bacteria in healthy urine. Nevertheless, people at the forum were more appalled than I could ever have expected. Some expressed their squeamishness in terms of "dangers." As far as I could tell, the greatest danger in this technique is of falling off the stepladder (heh heh heh). I was disappointed that no one asked how I had the control to fill just one tablespoon! ----END SNIP---- On a side note, the plain ammonia is available for 99 cents at your local Ace Hardware Store since it seems most grocery stores only want to sell the lemon scented, etc., type of ammonia. Hardware stores sell the plain type used for real cleaning... and oh yeah... fishless cycling! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) LOL, sick! ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 10:59:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) All fish put out ammonia in their urine... just like cats, dogs and us people too. The Skeptical Aquarist even fishless cycled a tank by peeing in it. He said the hardest part was balancing on the ladder and stopping the flow at one tablespoon. LOL Goldfish do not put out any more than any other comparably sized fish... it's just that goldfish have a lot of body mass compared to a zebra danio or some other small minnow type fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) goldfish put out amonia in their urine like cats do. Better to add more goldfish unless it is a really big tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@yahoo. com <mailto:shrlycat% 40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 8:29:40 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] P.S. re tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) The 3.5" is just the goldie's body - her tail is at least 4.5." (I thought her size might be relevant as far as getting a compatible tank mate for her.) --- On Tue, 8/5/08, Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Recommend tank mate for a large veiltail goldie (a platy maybe?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 6:52 PM I had a rosy red minnow in with my beautiful veiltail. She's large - about 3.5"; the minnow died yesterday -- I assume from old age; we'd had him for about two years. I'd like to get another "friend" for the goldie. We have a platy tank, and I thought about putting a large male platy in with the goldie, but don't know if that's wise. Would a male platy harass the goldie? Your thoughts, please. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080805-0, 08/05/2008 Tested on: 8/5/2008 9:59:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 11:43:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 12:10:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29052	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

Uh Oh! You've been reading my fishless cycling posts... it's pea's, not pee's. LOL If the goldfish are small, I just pinch the peas to squeeze the "meat" out and discard the skin and then chop up the "meat" a little. If they are larger, the two halves of "meat" go in as is. Goldfish actually have a single tooth like bone in the back of their mouth for chewing things. They eat plants and anything else they can get so I don't think a little pea skin will harm them but I don't usually feed them the skins but I have inadvertently dropped a pea in with the skin on and it was quickly eaten with no ill effects. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish question u might want to cut up the pees first. Not sure how they digest the skin.. I always cute them in half atleast. ----- Original Message ---- From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow! <amalthea23@... <mailto:amalthea23%40mac.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 12:13:41 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish question Sadly, I don't have much more than that to go with. It's all info I got over the phone. I'm going to take a peek at the fish myself tomorrow when I'm over there. In the meantime, I'm going to have her toss them all some peas and see if that helps.. Amalthea --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > It might be one of the round body types of goldfish. You give us very > little to go on here. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of Amalthea X > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish question > > Hi all. My mom has a pond in her backyard. It's somewhere around 5500 > gallons, is aerated with a large waterfall, gets salt treatments, and > it's got koi and comets as well as a ton of plants, frogs, etc. She's > got one adopted goldfish, nothing fancy, that has slowly, over the > past few months been getting bigger and bigger. I'm familiar with > dropsy, and this isn't it. This goldfish is VERY round, but the scales > aren't popped, his eyes look fine, he's got energy and is eating. He > just looks like a regular goldfish that happens to have swallowed a > beach ball. > Does anyone have any idea what could be the issue with this fish? No > other fish are acting "odd" and this is actually the first year there > were no post spawning injuries of any kind (the large koi get > extremely rough and usually we get at least one or two with a small > abrasion from the spawning.) There are tons of new babies, and > everyone seems extremely happy, this fish is just starting to look a > wee freakish. > Amalthea > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 12:19:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29053	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: filter cleaning question

Read my long article on Filter Maintenance and Cleaning. It shouldn't take an hour and you shouldn't have to scrub anything down. You have lots of good nitrifying bacteria in your filter system so you don't want to "clean" it too good.. just enough to remove the large amount of waste you will find in it but leaving the good bacteria behind so you don't put your tank into a mini-nitrogen cycle. This is also a good time to recommend to everyone about having two filter systems on any tank 30G or larger. It gives you the added safety of having redundancy in the event one filter motor fails and then you can alternate filter maintenance so you always have one fully cycled filter running on the tank at all times. Same with heaters.... two 1/2 sized heaters instead of one full size heater. If one fails in the on or off position, it can't boil the fish if stuck on and the fish won't freeze (or cool down too fast) since the other heater would be on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] filter cleaning question I'm taking Lenny's advice and going to clean my filter this week on my 54 gallon that has been running since March....but I have a 'silly' question......I've read all the filter cleaning literature - will the aquarium be ok with the filter, spray bar and heater off for the hour or so it takes me to clean everything? All those listed items need to be scrubbed. Do I need to get an air pump for times like this when I need to clean? Sorry for my ignorance, if this seems like a really dumb question! Shari _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 12:22:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29054	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

We put in API(brand) stress coat water conditioner and stress zyme biological filtration booster when we 1st filled the tank, did this harm the tank? I am going to your site now. Thanks In a message dated 8/6/2008 12:59:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: There are water conditioners like Prime **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29055	From: junglejingles	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?

Thanks for the help here Ray, your consideration on posting is much appreciated! I am replying here by hitting the 'reply via web post' and hoping this is the right method! Cheers! Clarice --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Alright, your clarification is much appreciated, thank you. I'm sure > where you can see how this recommendation could lead to confusion > since neither Melafix nor Aquarisol can treat an internal infection > of any kind (bacterial or protozoan). When trying to post two > different messages in the same thread, its often best to reply to > each member's message separately if the gist of them are not > related. In this way too, the original poster will know exactly who > (and what) you're replying to, and the rest of the membership can > follow the threads more easily. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "junglejingles" <mariajungle@> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, sure I would... > > > > Neither of these have to do with an internal treatment. The thought > > of using Melafix and/or Aquarisol was an expansion to the thought > of > > the previous poster when he said, "my first line of defense would > be > > using Melafix (which seems to be available everywhere)in the water > > column to see if that mild antibacterial treatment would give the > > sick fish enough of a kick..." > > > > The discussion of an internal protozoan is presented as another > > possible answer to the problem, separate from the one described by > > the previous poster. > > > > I was trying to add my thoughts as a follow-up, but somehow it > looks > > like it ended up being a separate post. I'm trying to figure out > how > > to post to the same thread on this board! > > > > Sorry for the confusion! > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Clarice, Would you please explain your rationale for using > > > Melafix and/or Aquarisol as treatment(s) for an internal > infection > > > when neither one is absorpable internally. Thank you, Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Jung" <mariajungle@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > What you describe could be attributed to an intestinal > protazoan > > > disease; > > > > the darkening coloration and the swimming pattern. As Lenny > says, > > > it would > > > > be a good idea to quarantine this fish, protozoan diseases are > > > highly > > > > infectious. A treatment (which I believe can be safely used in > > > conjunction > > > > with the Melafix) is to use a copper medication. Personally I > like > > > > Aquarisol. This is another less invasive treatment and will not > > > harm your > > > > other fish or plants, though it will kill snails and other > > > invertebrates. > > > > > > > > (A protozoan intensive medication would be metronidazole, with > > > about a 1% > > > > addition to the food and about 12 mg per liter added to the > > water. > > > But I > > > > cannot say for sure that this is what your fish is dealing > with.) > > > > > > > > Good luck! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:40 AM, giuseppesalvato > > > <giuseppesalvato@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have a Pristella Maxillaris in distress showing a dark > area > > > in the > > > > > intestins at the bladder level. I always noticed a small dark > > > area in > > > > > the same place in that fish, but now the dark area is bigger > > and > > > the > > > > > fish tends to hide in a cave during the day, swimming in > > circles > > > almost > > > > > horizontally. The Pristella doesn't eat almost anything at > this > > > point. > > > > > When I turn the lights off it gets out of the cave and swims > > with > > > the > > > > > other fish. > > > > > Is there any medicine you would recommend? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Giuseppe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Humans, the only animals with ego... > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29056	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

Thanks Lenny. I still have all the plants sitting in a bucket of water..lol! Ill have to get around to cleaning them and picking snails off today..their are tons of snails on them. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. NOOOOO... not one part water, one part bleach. That's a 50% bleach solution and would quickly kill the plants... but you are right about it killing all the parasites too... LOL. There are some that use one part bleach to 20 parts water as a two minute dip and even that can harm some plants. Here's a couple of pages with info on disinfecting/sanitizing plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Wash it really well. Look under leaves. I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it. I think I just might just to know if it works. ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. How do you cure it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and bacteria into ur tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 12:02:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29057	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

So, I need to change 25% of the water to lower the ammonia and can I use tap water? Where do I get a master kit? I need to help these fish fast. I have stress coat, so should I add to the tap water, or do I need the tap water to sit for a day or so. What about chlorine? In a message dated 8/6/2008 12:59:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: You are simply making the same mistake that so many newbies make by not knowing about "The Nitrogen Cycle" and how it affects fish. You cannot simply add fish to a tank... especially not five goldfish in a 46G tank. Return one of them and keep no more than two in your tank. Even with only two, you'll need a bigger tank in the next year or you will have to do frequent (weekly or more often) 25% PWC's (partial water changes) and lots Recent Activity * 23 _New Members_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZmQzbjI5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2d GwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMTgwNDE5NTI-) _Visit Your Group _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlb3UyMzZ2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGw Ec2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIxODA0MTk1Mg--) Sitebuilder _Build a web site_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o7lp10c/M=493064.12016255.12445662.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218049152/L=/B=zEu8AELaX .8-/J=1218041952767131/A=4025304/R=0/SIG=12uhb64pb/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt =44092/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting/sitebuilding.php) quickly & easily with Sitebuilder. Yahoo! Groups _Familyographer Zone_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13otstmf0/M=493064.12717544.13024012.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218049152/L=/B=zUu8AE LaX.8-/J=1218041952767131/A=5370602/R=0/SIG=11lnr7bf1/*http://advision.webeven ts.yahoo.com/familyographer/) Join a group and share your pictures. Real Food Group _on Yahoo! Groups_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o2jg19b/M=493064.12016243.13036160.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218049152/L=/B=zku8AELaX .8-/J=1218041952767131/A=5379227/R=0/SIG=11gatb1qb/*http://advision.webevents yahoo.com/hellmanns/) What does real food mean to you? . **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29058	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

If you read those two pages I sent, they do have methods for de-snailing plants too so you won't have to hand pick them off. Besides, you'll never get all the snail eggs by hand anyhow. So will you be preparing an escargot dinner for the family tonight? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ~¤Heather¤~ Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Thanks Lenny. I still have all the plants sitting in a bucket of water..lol! Ill have to get around to cleaning them and picking snails off today..their are tons of snails on them. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. NOOOOO... not one part water, one part bleach. That's a 50% bleach solution and would quickly kill the plants... but you are right about it killing all the parasites too... LOL. There are some that use one part bleach to 20 parts water as a two minute dip and even that can harm some plants. Here's a couple of pages with info on disinfecting/sanitizing plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 <http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445> http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 <http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Wash it really well. Look under leaves. I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it. I think I just might just to know if it works. ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. How do you cure it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and bacteria into ur tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 1:22:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29059	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

Angel, Please do not intimate what you can do to "cure" (disinfect) wild live plants if you have not done so yourself, and only read about it. Some of our other members may try this method you posted, with disasterous results. For that matter, please refrain from posting any suggestions that are pure speculation and/or only guesswork on your part. We have all too many members here who think they are experts on aquarium related manners but who, in actuality, don't have a clue as to what's correrct. We are trying to eliminate such dangerous misinformation as being disruptive. Soaking plants in a 50% -- 50% solution (1 part water with 1 part bleach) for even TWO MINUTES will result in DEAD PLANTS (Read: disintegrated!). Your message # 28940 on Sunday evening (around 9:00 PM) recommended the same thing, with \\Steve// having to reply (# 28941 - 9:23PM) to you with this same correction -- that it will kill the plants. He recommended, as I also do, to use Potassium Permanganate instead, for 10 minutes, as it is safer or to use Alum (Aluminum Sulfate) for 20 minutes. Why do you choose to ignore this information and choose to pass on erroneous information that you have only read about? Bleach can be used, but only in a solution of 1 part Bleach to 19 parts Water -- for NO MORE THAN 3 MINUTES (for tougher-leaved plants), or for NO MORE THAN 2 MINUTES for more delicate plants. A bucket of water with dechlorinating agent, THREE TIMES THE NORMAL DOSE, should be on hand to immediately dip the plants into after the bleach solution soak, and then the plants should be rinsed thoroughly. Thank you for abiding by the request not to post information that you do not have personal experience with. It will go a long way in advancing our group. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Angel <wellrimdangel@...> wrote: > > Wash it really well.  Look under leaves. > I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it.  I think I just might just to know if it works.  > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > > How do you cure it? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and > bacteria into ur tank. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> > To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our > smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant > while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long > runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from > the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of > minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, > > Heather > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29060	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

If your tap water contains chlorine or chloramine, you would need a dechlor product. I use either API's tap water conditioner or Top Fin tap water dechlorinator. These only dechlor the water and treat heavy metals without adding any stress this or slime that type chemicals to the water.. which aren't needed IMO. I hope you've done your first 25% PWC by now and used the Stress-Coat as a dechlor. The fish will thank you for this. You may have high enough ammonia levels Stress-Coat (also from API) does dechlor the water but it also adds other stuff like Aloe Vera to the water and frankly, fish do not need to be breathing Aloe Vera, IMO. At least, I've never seen Mother Nature breaking off a GIANT Aloe Vera leaf and squeezing it into a river or lake in nature. I don't know why these companies put out all this crap along with their good products but I guess they have to compete so when one company comes up with a stress this or slime that type product, the other companies have to follow suit. Since you already have the Stress-Coat, finish using it (or go buy a bottle of Prime water treatment, which will help detoxify the ammonia... you will still have to do PWC's but at least it won't kill your fish) as directed for dechloring your tap water. When I do my weekly PWC's, I use a Python Water Change System so I just add my pro-rated dose of dechlor to my partially empty tank and then refill it from the Python hose connected to my tap. Doing weekly (or more frequent depending on the bioload) PWC's is the way we dilute the toxins and waste in our fish tanks. Right now, you have to possibly do daily PWC's. I had to do twice daily PWC's when I first got started to keep my ammonia levels low enough since I started out with two goldfish in a 10G tank many years ago but fortunately did have a Master Test Kit. API also sells a decent Master Test Kit which I do use also. I have a page on my blog about "Everyone needs a Master Test Kit" where I compare several of the leading brands for prices, tests, etc. If you have a PetsMart nearby, you can go to their website, print out the page and bring it to the store and they'll match their online price saving your around 50%. The last time I check, the API Master Test Kit was around $15.00 online where the store was around $26.00. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] VERY new Aquarium So, I need to change 25% of the water to lower the ammonia and can I use tap water? Where do I get a master kit? I need to help these fish fast. I have stress coat, so should I add to the tap water, or do I need the tap water to sit for a day or so. What about chlorine? In a message dated 8/6/2008 12:59:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: You are simply making the same mistake that so many newbies make by not knowing about "The Nitrogen Cycle" and how it affects fish. You cannot simply add fish to a tank... especially not five goldfish in a 46G tank. Return one of them and keep no more than two in your tank. Even with only two, you'll need a bigger tank in the next year or you will have to do frequent (weekly or more often) 25% PWC's (partial water changes) and lots _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 1:35:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29061	From: L. Gove	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

Don't goldfish (who are related to carp) urinate through thier skin? and that is why someone should never put more than two at a time in a tank. Also, they should never be put in a lake or pond, unless someone built it themselves, because they take over. and grow fast. On 8/6/08, jan1213@... <jan1213@...> wrote: > > So, I need to change 25% of the water to lower the ammonia and can I use > tap > water? Where do I get a master kit? I need to help these fish fast. I have > stress coat, so should I add to the tap water, or do I need the tap water > to > sit for a day or so. What about chlorine? > > > In a message dated 8/6/2008 12:59:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: > > You are simply making the same mistake that so many newbies make by not > knowing about "The Nitrogen Cycle" and how it affects fish. You cannot > simply add fish to a tank... especially not five goldfish in a 46G tank. > > Return one of them and keep no more than two in your tank. Even with only > two, you'll need a bigger tank in the next year or you will have to do > frequent (weekly or more often) 25% PWC's (partial water changes) and lots > > Recent Activity > * 23 > _New Members_ > ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZmQzbjI5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2d > GwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMTgwNDE5NTI-) > > _Visit Your Group _ > ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlb3UyMzZ2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGw > Ec2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIxODA0MTk1Mg--) > > > Sitebuilder > _Build a web site_ > ( > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o7lp10c/M=493064.12016255.12445662.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218049152/L=/B=zEu8AELaX > .8-/J=1218041952767131/A=4025304/R=0/SIG=12uhb64pb/* > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt > =44092/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting/sitebuilding.php) > quickly & easily > with Sitebuilder. > > Yahoo! Groups > _Familyographer Zone_ > ( > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13otstmf0/M=493064.12717544.13024012.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218049152/L=/B=zUu8AE > LaX.8-/J=1218041952767131/A=5370602/R=0/SIG=11lnr7bf1/* > http://advision.webeven > ts.yahoo.com/familyographer/) > Join a group and > share your pictures. > > Real Food Group > _on Yahoo! Groups_ > ( > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o2jg19b/M=493064.12016243.13036160.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218049152/L=/B=zku8AELaX > .8-/J=1218041952767131/A=5379227/R=0/SIG=11gatb1qb/* > http://advision.webevents > yahoo.com/hellmanns/) > What does real food > mean to you? > > . > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? > > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > ( > http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29062	From: L. Gove	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: OT question.

Does anyone know, the solution to desolve the fuzzies off sand dollars? > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29063	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

I don't know if it harmed the tank but adding chemicals is not the way to help them. I replied to your other message explaining some of this. The Stress-Coat is just a dechlor product with added aloe vera and other chemicals which causes fish to create additional slime coating. Healthy fish do not need these added chemicals... and un-healthy fish need them even less. The Stress-Zyme doesn't work as advertised as I've written about in other posts about Bio-Spira and Dr. Tim's One And Only, which did/do work. I remember trying the Stress-Zyme stuff when I first started and I think it only made things worse, rather than better, according to my test results. For now, get a Master Test Kit and a bottle of Prime and do 25% PWC's as needed based on your ammonia and nitrite tests whenever either of them levels get to 1.0ppm and you should be able to save the rest of your fish and keep them from being permanently damaged by the elevated ammonia/nitrite levels over the next 2-6 weeks until your filter system has fully developed the good nitrifying bacteria. Make sure you read my article on Filter Maintenance so you don't kill of your good bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] VERY new Aquarium We put in API(brand) stress coat water conditioner and stress zyme biological filtration booster when we 1st filled the tank, did this harm the tank? I am going to your site now. Thanks In a message dated 8/6/2008 12:59:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: There are water conditioners like Prime **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 1:40:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29064	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

I don't think they urinate through their skin... that's a first for me but I'd have to do some Google Scholar research to look for university studies and necropsies that might identify an organ in their skin for urine secretion. Goldfish, as do all fish, do create ammonia during gill function and also via normal urination process through the digestive tract. The reason they create so much more is that they are much bigger fish in body mass. They breathe a lot more and poop and pee a lot more. It's kind of like a large adult compared to a small child. Sure the babies soil their diapers frequently but the total mass of the waste is far less than what an adult creates after a good meal. LOL As far as two at a time, it would depend on the tank/pond size. Five goldfish in a 500G tank would have only 1/10th of the impact on the tank's ecology compared to five goldfish in a 50G tank. This means that the ammonia levels in one day in the 50G tank would take ten days to reach the same levels in the 500G tank. A full bioload of fish in a not overstocked tank will create up to 5ppm of ammonia each day which is why we set that level as the goal when fishless cycling. Well that and higher levels of ammonia during fishless cycling seems to cause problems with the good bacteria growing properly. If we grow a N-bacteria colony that can handle 5ppm of ammonia during fishless cycling, then we know we can add a full bioload of fish to the tank after the fishless cycling process is completed without risking any of the fish to ammonia/nitrite poisoning. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] VERY new Aquarium Don't goldfish (who are related to carp) urinate through thier skin? and that is why someone should never put more than two at a time in a tank. Also, they should never be put in a lake or pond, unless someone built it themselves, because they take over. and grow fast. On 8/6/08, jan1213@... <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com> <jan1213@... <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com> > wrote: > > So, I need to change 25% of the water to lower the ammonia and can I > use tap water? Where do I get a master kit? I need to help these fish > fast. I have stress coat, so should I add to the tap water, or do I > need the tap water to sit for a day or so. What about chlorine? > > > In a message dated 8/6/2008 12:59:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: > > You are simply making the same mistake that so many newbies make by > not knowing about "The Nitrogen Cycle" and how it affects fish. You > cannot simply add fish to a tank... especially not five goldfish in a 46G tank. > > Return one of them and keep no more than two in your tank. Even with > only two, you'll need a bigger tank in the next year or you will have > to do frequent (weekly or more often) 25% PWC's (partial water > changes) and lots > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 1:53:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29065	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

ok, so I am to get Prime and do 25% PWC(that is just for the ammonia?) and do I use the stress coat for the chlorine? I am sorry for so many posts but I want to keep these fish and do what I have to now...I will read everything on your blog when I am done...Thanks In a message dated 8/6/2008 2:41:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I don't know if it harmed the tank but adding chemicals is not the way to help them. I replied to your other message explaining some of this. For now, get a Master Test Kit and a bottle of Prime and do 25% PWC's as needed based on your ammonia and nitrite tests whenever either of them levels get to 1.0ppm and you should be able to save the rest of your fish and keep them from being permanently damaged by the elevated ammonia/nitrite levels over the next 2-6 weeks until your filter system has fully developed the good nitrifying bacteria. Make sure you read my article on Filter Maintenance so you don't kill of your good bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Recent Activity * 23 _New Members_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMXI4b GFmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMTgwNDgwNTc-) _Visit Your Group _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNzM4cTQwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGw Ec2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIxODA0ODA1Nw--) Women of Curves _on Yahoo! Groups_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13pu237kq/M=493064.12016299.12445691.11322765/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218055257/L=/B=Fy73B0La X9U-/J=1218048057906867/A=4990222/R=0/SIG=11odsb6gn/*http://new.groups.yahoo.c om/Women_Of_Curves_Everywhere) see how women are changing their lives. Get in Shape _on Yahoo! Groups_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13pf7vnig/M=493064.12016300.12445692.11323196/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218055257/L=/B=GC73B0La X9U-/J=1218048057906867/A=5170417/R=0/SIG=11b5gu1oe/*http://new.groups.yahoo.c om/specialKgroup) Find a buddy and lose weight. Food Lovers _Real Food Group_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13odhh2b2/M=493064.12016243.13036160.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218055257/L=/B=GS73B0LaX9 U-/J=1218048057906867/A=5379225/R=0/SIG=11gatb1qb/*http://advision.webevents.y ahoo.com/hellmanns/) on Yahoo! Groups find out more. . **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29066	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

What about Alum? I've heard that's a good way to get rid of snails. Maybe it would work on parasites. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: Angel <wellrimdangel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 10:23:50 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Wash it really well.  Look under leaves. I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it.  I think I just might just to know if it works.  ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. How do you cure it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. . com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and bacteria into ur tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29067	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

LOL yeah I cant believe how many there are on them...it would feed atleast one of us... (enter puke smilie here) =) Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. If you read those two pages I sent, they do have methods for de-snailing plants too so you won't have to hand pick them off. Besides, you'll never get all the snail eggs by hand anyhow. So will you be preparing an escargot dinner for the family tonight? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ~¤Heather¤~ Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Thanks Lenny. I still have all the plants sitting in a bucket of water..lol! Ill have to get around to cleaning them and picking snails off today..their are tons of snails on them. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. NOOOOO... not one part water, one part bleach. That's a 50% bleach solution and would quickly kill the plants... but you are right about it killing all the parasites too... LOL. There are some that use one part bleach to 20 parts water as a two minute dip and even that can harm some plants. Here's a couple of pages with info on disinfecting/sanitizing plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 <http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445> http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 <http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Wash it really well. Look under leaves. I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it. I think I just might just to know if it works. ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. How do you cure it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and bacteria into ur tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 1:22:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29068	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

Yes, the Prime will help detoxify the ammonia while you complete the "Cycling With Fish" process that you are currently stuck with. Prime will also treat chlorine/chloramine so you will not need to use the Stress-Coat once you start using the Prime. Keep the Stress-Coat and you can eventually use it as just a dechlor product once you get through the cycling process. Remember that you will not be able to keep four or five goldfish for long term in your 46G tank so you may want to return one or more now which will make things easier on you and the fish during the cycling with fish process. I wouldn't recommend more than two and even then when they reach adult size, you will find yourself having to do frequent PWC's and filter maintenance. I have two round-bodied in a 65G and have to do weekly PWC's and filter maintenance on one of my two filter systems on alternating weeks to keep the water quality in good shape. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] VERY new Aquarium ok, so I am to get Prime and do 25% PWC(that is just for the ammonia?) and do I use the stress coat for the chlorine? I am sorry for so many posts but I want to keep these fish and do what I have to now...I will read everything on your blog when I am done...Thanks In a message dated 8/6/2008 2:41:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: I don't know if it harmed the tank but adding chemicals is not the way to help them. I replied to your other message explaining some of this. For now, get a Master Test Kit and a bottle of Prime and do 25% PWC's as needed based on your ammonia and nitrite tests whenever either of them levels get to 1.0ppm and you should be able to save the rest of your fish and keep them from being permanently damaged by the elevated ammonia/nitrite levels over the next 2-6 weeks until your filter system has fully developed the good nitrifying bacteria. Make sure you read my article on Filter Maintenance so you don't kill of your good bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ <http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_> (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> ) (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 2:41:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29069	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

Oops, sorry. Just noticed someone posted that. I should really make sure to read through all my messages before responding. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 1:30:49 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. What about Alum? I've heard that's a good way to get rid of snails. Maybe it would work on parasites. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: Angel <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 10:23:50 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Wash it really well.  Look under leaves. I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it.  I think I just might just to know if it works.  ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. How do you cure it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. . com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and bacteria into ur tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29070	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

Personally I would skip the stress coat and use the Prime. Prime treats for Chloramines and Chlorine. There are mixed opinions on the use of stress coat and other products designed to make a fish produce a slime coat. While I do not have the extensive Aquarist History as Lenny, I have kept fish for years, multiple tanks. I would take Lenny's advice over mine. Definitely hesitate on taking advice from other NEW Aquarium keepers. Many have a short amount of time in the hobby and may only have experience with a single tank. When we learn something new, especially a hard fought lesson, we are eager to share it with others. -Mike ok, so I am to get Prime and do 25% PWC(that is just for the ammonia?) and do I use the stress coat for the chlorine? I am sorry for so many posts but I want to keep these fish and do what I have to now...I will read everything on your blog when I am done...Thanks -----Original Message----- From: jan1213@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 12:06 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] VERY new Aquarium ok, so I am to get Prime and do 25% PWC(that is just for the ammonia?) and do I use the stress coat for the chlorine? I am sorry for so many posts but I want to keep these fish and do what I have to now...I will read everything on your blog when I am done...Thanks In a message dated 8/6/2008 2:41:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I don't know if it harmed the tank but adding chemicals is not the way to help them. I replied to your other message explaining some of this. For now, get a Master Test Kit and a bottle of Prime and do 25% PWC's as needed based on your ammonia and nitrite tests whenever either of them levels get to 1.0ppm and you should be able to save the rest of your fish and keep them from being permanently damaged by the elevated ammonia/nitrite levels over the next 2-6 weeks until your filter system has fully developed the good nitrifying bacteria. Make sure you read my article on Filter Maintenance so you don't kill of your good bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Recent Activity * 23 _New Members_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMXI4b GFmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMTgwNDgwNTc-) _Visit Your Group _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNzM4cTQwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGw Ec2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIxODA0ODA1Nw--) Women of Curves _on Yahoo! Groups_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13pu237kq/M=493064.12016299.12445691.11322765/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218055257/L=/B=Fy73B0La X9U-/J=1218048057906867/A=4990222/R=0/SIG=11odsb6gn/*http://new.groups.yahoo.c om/Women_Of_Curves_Everywhere) see how women are changing their lives. Get in Shape _on Yahoo! Groups_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13pf7vnig/M=493064.1 2016300.12445692.11323196/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218055257/L=/B=GC73B0La X9U-/J=1218048057906867/A=5170417/R=0/SIG=11b5gu1oe/*http://new.groups.yahoo.c om/specialKgroup) Find a buddy and lose weight. Food Lovers _Real Food Group_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13odhh2b2/M=493064.12016243.13036160.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218055257/L=/B=GS73B0LaX9 U-/J=1218048057906867/A=5379225/R=0/SIG=11gatb1qb/*http://advision.webevents.y ahoo.com/hellmanns/) on Yahoo! Groups find out more. . **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29071	From: Anndrea	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions

Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He is attacking an oscar of about 8 inches. I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. His aggression got worse. I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or river. But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take him because of how territorially aggressive these fish are. If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole life, can he make it in the wild? Can these fish live in ponds? I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to send him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have another tank to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two days ago, and have none empty that don't leak). Thanks, anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29072	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

Hi Kate, Yes, Alum is a fairly good plant disinfectant, and is safer than Bleach or Potassium Permanganate. The normal dosage is 1 TBS per gallon as a 20 minute to hour bath; fortunately Alum won't harm plants. Depending upon what parasites you have in mind (microscopic ones or large types like fish lice), they may be eliminated in this time-frame or it may take longer. Alum is not quite as effective as a disinfectant, but its benefit is in its safety. For snails, it could take up to 2 or 3 days in the normal solution strength. To speed things up, you can use 2-3 TBS per gallon for 2 to 3 hours to make sure to eliminate all the snails and snail eggs. I would suspect such hitch-hikers such as Dragon-Fly and Damsel Fly Larvae might need the same. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> wrote: > > What about Alum? I've heard that's a good way to get rid of snails. Maybe it would work on parasites. > Kate > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Angel <wellrimdangel@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 10:23:50 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > > Wash it really well.  Look under leaves. > I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it.  I think I just might just to know if it works.  > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > How do you cure it? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. . com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and > bacteria into ur tank. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> > To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our > smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant > while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long > runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from > the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of > minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, > > Heather > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29073	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions

Anndrea, I am very leery of releasing anything into the wild even it is a native species after it has lived in an aquarium. Ask around some more, put an ad in a local newspaper, or your closest www.craigslist.org  Yes, they can live in an appropriate sized pond.(big) -Mike Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He is attacking an oscar of about 8 inches. I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. His aggression got worse. I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or river. But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take him because of how territorially aggressive these fish are. If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole life, can he make it in the wild? Can these fish live in ponds? I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to send him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have another tank to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two days ago, and have none empty that don't leak). Thanks, anndrea -----Original Message----- From: Anndrea <anndreae@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 1:13 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He=2 0is attacking an oscar of about 8 inches. I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. His aggression got worse. I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or river. But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take him because of how territorially aggressive these fish are. If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole life, can he make it in the wild? Can these fish live in ponds? I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to send him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have another tank to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two days ago, and have none empty that don't leak). Thanks, anndrea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29074	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

I presume you mean Swim Bladder Disease/Problem, which can have at least several causes (bacterial, viral or genetic). Most all fish have swim bladders (even the bottom dwellers), especially the mid- water swimmers. Without that organ, they would not bo bouyant enough to maintain themselves in mid-water. Feeding fish peas often helps in cases of fish bloat where the fish is constipated, although in this case there is no air trapped in the belly, even if clearing an intestinal blockage will relieve possible pressure in some cases, on the swim bladder. This (constipation) will not always effect a compacting of the swim bladder, but can display the fish's discomfort and body swelling (not to be confused with a swim bladder problem). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Angel <wellrimdangel@...> wrote: > > Goldfish get swim bladder easier then other fish.  If u feed them pees cut up or just the greens from the flake food it will help them poop and relieve the air in its belly. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Amalthea X <amalthea23@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 10:16:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish question > > > Hi all. My mom has a pond in her backyard. It's somewhere around 5500 > gallons, is aerated with a large waterfall, gets salt treatments, and > it's got koi and comets as well as a ton of plants, frogs, etc. She's > got one adopted goldfish, nothing fancy, that has slowly, over the > past few months been getting bigger and bigger. I'm familiar with > dropsy, and this isn't it. This goldfish is VERY round, but the > scales aren't popped, his eyes look fine, he's got energy and is > eating. He just looks like a regular goldfish that happens to have > swallowed a beach ball. > Does anyone have any idea what could be the issue with this fish? No > other fish are acting "odd" and this is actually the first year there > were no post spawning injuries of any kind (the large koi get > extremely rough and usually we get at least one or two with a small > abrasion from the spawning.) There are tons of new babies, and > everyone seems extremely happy, this fish is just starting to look a > wee freakish. > Amalthea > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29075	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions

God... you need to go give that pet store a good whooping and tell them I said it was OK for you to do it! ;-) Channel Catfish get HUGE... I think the world or Louisiana record is well over 100 pounds (5' to 6' long with a mouth big enough to eat a child). You would need a multi-thousand gallon tank to keep a channel catfish long term. What the heck is a pet store selling them for? Same for Pacu's and even for Common Plecos, Goldfish, etc., if they aren't telling the people how big these fish get, the stores should be getting in trouble. If they are telling people, then it's the people fault for buying them. He's getting aggressive because of basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. He knows that the 55G isn't enough tank for him, much less any other fish so he's trying to eliminate the competition. Fish release hormones into the water column and when these hormone levels get to a certain point, the fish will start becoming stunted but can also get aggressive if they don't want to be little runts the rest of their lives. The 55G isn't really enough tank for an Oscar either but I guess it can be done with frequent PWC's and lots of filtration and filter maintenance. Call your local public aquarium to see if they have any suggestions. He'll probably get too big for a normal sized pond also and will then start eating everything in their pond so I wouldn't go that route either. You can also search sites like PlanetCatfish.com and their forums for suggestions. Also check with your local Wildlife & Fisheries to see if they are native species to your area and maybe they might have some suggestions. Last but not least.... have you thought of Zatarain's Fish Fry? As Mark Twain once said... "Them thar catfish make good eatin!" (Just kidding... maybe... since you'll have to let him grow a little bit more! He's barely sandwich size right now. LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He is attacking an oscar of about 8 inches. I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. His aggression got worse. I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or river. But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take him because of how territorially aggressive these fish are. If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole life, can he make it in the wild? Can these fish live in ponds? I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to send him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have another tank to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two days ago, and have none empty that don't leak). Thanks, anndrea _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 3:51:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29076	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

He's only small compared to the other fish. He's probably about 7" long. The biggest ones in there are maybe 16" and there are some small babies that are around 1", but I think he's big enough to eat a pea. He swallows the sticks easily. Amalthea --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Uh Oh! You've been reading my fishless cycling posts... it's pea's, not > pee's. LOL > > If the goldfish are small, I just pinch the peas to squeeze the "meat" out > and discard the skin and then chop up the "meat" a little. If they are > larger, the two halves of "meat" go in as is. Goldfish actually have a > single tooth like bone in the back of their mouth for chewing things. They > eat plants and anything else they can get so I don't think a little pea skin > will harm them but I don't usually feed them the skins but I have > inadvertently dropped a pea in with the skin on and it was quickly eaten > with no ill effects. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29077	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

Jan, I would just add for those still insisting on using a stress- coat product (totally unnecessary), and those same hobbyists who also use Purigen (by SeaChem), a synthetic filter medium replacing carbon, these "water conditioners" will ruin the Purigen making it totally useless (and toxic). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, the Prime will help detoxify the ammonia while you complete the > "Cycling With Fish" process that you are currently stuck with. Prime will > also treat chlorine/chloramine so you will not need to use the Stress-Coat > once you start using the Prime. Keep the Stress-Coat and you can eventually > use it as just a dechlor product once you get through the cycling process. > > Remember that you will not be able to keep four or five goldfish for long > term in your 46G tank so you may want to return one or more now which will > make things easier on you and the fish during the cycling with fish process. > I wouldn't recommend more than two and even then when they reach adult size, > you will find yourself having to do frequent PWC's and filter maintenance. > I have two round-bodied in a 65G and have to do weekly PWC's and filter > maintenance on one of my two filter systems on alternating weeks to keep the > water quality in good shape. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of jan1213@... > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 2:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] VERY new Aquarium > > ok, so I am to get Prime and do 25% PWC(that is just for the ammonia?) and > do I use the stress coat for the chlorine? I am sorry for so many posts but > I want to keep these fish and do what I have to now...I will read everything > on your blog when I am done...Thanks > > In a message dated 8/6/2008 2:41:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: > > I don't know if it harmed the tank but adding chemicals is not the way to > help them. I replied to your other message explaining some of this. > > For now, get a Master Test Kit and a bottle of Prime and do 25% PWC's as > needed based on your ammonia and nitrite tests whenever either of them > levels get to 1.0ppm and you should be able to save the rest of your fish > and keep them from being permanently damaged by the elevated ammonia/nitrite > levels over the next 2-6 weeks until your filter system has fully developed > the good nitrifying bacteria. Make sure you read my article on Filter > Maintenance so you don't kill of your good bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ <http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_> > (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> ) (Links to > articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 > Tested on: 8/6/2008 2:41:32 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29078	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

At the same time, I meant to add, using Prime with Purigen is completely safe. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Jan, I would just add for those still insisting on using a stress- > coat product (totally unnecessary), and those same hobbyists who also > use Purigen (by SeaChem), a synthetic filter medium replacing carbon, > these "water conditioners" will ruin the Purigen making it totally > useless (and toxic). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Yes, the Prime will help detoxify the ammonia while you complete the > > "Cycling With Fish" process that you are currently stuck with. > Prime will > > also treat chlorine/chloramine so you will not need to use the > Stress-Coat > > once you start using the Prime. Keep the Stress-Coat and you can > eventually > > use it as just a dechlor product once you get through the cycling > process. > > > > Remember that you will not be able to keep four or five goldfish > for long > > term in your 46G tank so you may want to return one or more now > which will > > make things easier on you and the fish during the cycling with fish > process. > > I wouldn't recommend more than two and even then when they reach > adult size, > > you will find yourself having to do frequent PWC's and filter > maintenance. > > I have two round-bodied in a 65G and have to do weekly PWC's and > filter > > maintenance on one of my two filter systems on alternating weeks to > keep the > > water quality in good shape. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 2:06 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] VERY new Aquarium > > > > ok, so I am to get Prime and do 25% PWC(that is just for the > ammonia?) and > > do I use the stress coat for the chlorine? I am sorry for so many > posts but > > I want to keep these fish and do what I have to now...I will read > everything > > on your blog when I am done...Thanks > > > > In a message dated 8/6/2008 2:41:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > GoldLenny@ <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: > > > > I don't know if it harmed the tank but adding chemicals is not the > way to > > help them. I replied to your other message explaining some of this. > > > > For now, get a Master Test Kit and a bottle of Prime and do 25% > PWC's as > > needed based on your ammonia and nitrite tests whenever either of > them > > levels get to 1.0ppm and you should be able to save the rest of > your fish > > and keep them from being permanently damaged by the elevated > ammonia/nitrite > > levels over the next 2-6 weeks until your filter system has fully > developed > > the good nitrifying bacteria. Make sure you read my article on > Filter > > Maintenance so you don't kill of your good bacteria. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ > <http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_> > > (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> ) > (Links to > > articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 > > Tested on: 8/6/2008 2:41:32 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29079	From: harry perry	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish /Actually

He would probably taste pretty good, cause he hasn't been rooting in the mud. I have hundreds of fish receipts. Harry --- On Wed, 8/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 4:51 PM God... you need to go give that pet store a good whooping and tell them I said it was OK for you to do it! ;-) Channel Catfish get HUGE... I think the world or Louisiana record is well over 100 pounds (5' to 6' long with a mouth big enough to eat a child). You would need a multi-thousand gallon tank to keep a channel catfish long term. What the heck is a pet store selling them for? Same for Pacu's and even for Common Plecos, Goldfish, etc., if they aren't telling the people how big these fish get, the stores should be getting in trouble. If they are telling people, then it's the people fault for buying them. He's getting aggressive because of basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. He knows that the 55G isn't enough tank for him, much less any other fish so he's trying to eliminate the competition. Fish release hormones into the water column and when these hormone levels get to a certain point, the fish will start becoming stunted but can also get aggressive if they don't want to be little runts the rest of their lives. The 55G isn't really enough tank for an Oscar either but I guess it can be done with frequent PWC's and lots of filtration and filter maintenance. Call your local public aquarium to see if they have any suggestions. He'll probably get too big for a normal sized pond also and will then start eating everything in their pond so I wouldn't go that route either. You can also search sites like PlanetCatfish. com and their forums for suggestions. Also check with your local Wildlife & Fisheries to see if they are native species to your area and maybe they might have some suggestions. Last but not least.... have you thought of Zatarain's Fish Fry? As Mark Twain once said... "Them thar catfish make good eatin!" (Just kidding... maybe... since you'll have to let him grow a little bit more! He's barely sandwich size right now. LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He is attacking an oscar of about 8 inches. I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. His aggression got worse. I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or river. But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take him because of how territorially aggressive these fish are. If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole life, can he make it in the wild? Can these fish live in ponds? I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to send him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have another tank to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two days ago, and have none empty that don't leak). Thanks, anndrea _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 3:51:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29080	From: Pandion59@gmail.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions

It would be a huge mistake to release any fish back to the wild, however if it really is a channel catfish (Ictalurus punctatus) it will do quite well in a pond. It is true that channel catfish get fairly large in the wild - but not n ponds. I've kept them in ponds containing a variety of other species for years with no problems. On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > God... you need to go give that pet store a good whooping and tell them I > said it was OK for you to do it! ;-) > > Channel Catfish get HUGE... I think the world or Louisiana record is well > over 100 pounds (5' to 6' long with a mouth big enough to eat a child). You > would need a multi-thousand gallon tank to keep a channel catfish long term. > What the heck is a pet store selling them for? Same for Pacu's and even for > Common Plecos, Goldfish, etc., if they aren't telling the people how big > these fish get, the stores should be getting in trouble. If they are > telling people, then it's the people fault for buying them. > > He's getting aggressive because of basic Darwinism... survival of the > fittest. He knows that the 55G isn't enough tank for him, much less any > other fish so he's trying to eliminate the competition. Fish release > hormones into the water column and when these hormone levels get to a > certain point, the fish will start becoming stunted but can also get > aggressive if they don't want to be little runts the rest of their lives. > The 55G isn't really enough tank for an Oscar either but I guess it can be > done with frequent PWC's and lots of filtration and filter maintenance. > > Call your local public aquarium to see if they have any suggestions. He'll > probably get too big for a normal sized pond also and will then start eating > everything in their pond so I wouldn't go that route either. > > You can also search sites like PlanetCatfish.com and their forums for > suggestions. Also check with your local Wildlife & Fisheries to see if they > are native species to your area and maybe they might have some suggestions. > > Last but not least.... have you thought of Zatarain's Fish Fry? As Mark > Twain once said... "Them thar catfish make good eatin!" (Just kidding... > maybe... since you'll have to let him grow a little bit more! He's barely > sandwich size right now. LOL) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Anndrea > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions > > Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He is attacking an oscar of about 8 > inches. > > I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. > > His aggression got worse. > > I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or river. > But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take him because of > how territorially aggressive these fish are. > > If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole life, can > he make it in the wild? > > Can these fish live in ponds? > > I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to send > him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? > > I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. > > Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have another tank > to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two days ago, and have > none empty that don't leak). > > Thanks, > anndrea > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 > Tested on: 8/6/2008 3:51:51 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29081	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

You know.. I just saw that Ray replied and I think I must have missed one of the original posts about why you were asking. Ray explained about how swim-bladder issues work. It sounds like you have long-bodied goldfish (comets, commons, etc.) and they are less likely to have swim bladder issues compared to the fancy round-bodied goldfish that have all of their organs distorted around inside them and often times mutated/deformed organs due to the cross-breeding that took place to get all the fancy types. I didn't realize this until after I bought a couple of fancy goldfish several years ago and have learned much more about them. It's also another reason that fancy goldfish have a much shorter lifespan compared to their "normal" counterparts. I hate when Yahoo snips off the beginning of a thread in the emails. I guess I'll have to go to the website and look at the rest of this thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thats albert fishs pelvis! yow! Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish question He's only small compared to the other fish. He's probably about 7" long. The biggest ones in there are maybe 16" and there are some small babies that are around 1", but I think he's big enough to eat a pea. He swallows the sticks easily. Amalthea --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Uh Oh! You've been reading my fishless cycling posts... it's pea's, > not pee's. LOL > > If the goldfish are small, I just pinch the peas to squeeze the "meat" out > and discard the skin and then chop up the "meat" a little. If they are > larger, the two halves of "meat" go in as is. Goldfish actually have a > single tooth like bone in the back of their mouth for chewing things. They > eat plants and anything else they can get so I don't think a little pea skin > will harm them but I don't usually feed them the skins but I have > inadvertently dropped a pea in with the skin on and it was quickly > eaten with no ill effects. > Messages in this topic _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 4:12:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29082	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions

Here in indiana when you go fishing in lakes and rivers that's the only catfish that are in them are channel cats. He will do fine in a pond. They are scavengers so he will find all kind of yummy gross things to eat. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Anndrea" <anndreae@...> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:13:09 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He is attacking an oscar of about 8 inches. I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. His aggression got worse. I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or river. But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take him because of how territorially aggressive these fish are. If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole life, can he make it in the wild? Can these fish live in ponds? I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to send him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have another tank to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two days ago, and have none empty that don't leak). Thanks, anndrea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29083	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

Heather, If/when you decide on disinfecting your plants with bleach, it should be pointed out that the method (solution strength) that both Lenny and I recommended, 1 part bleach to 19 or 20 parts water, is a somewhat older but well proven practice. The regular bleach we are referring to is bottled (plastic-jugged) as a 5% or 5.25% solution as it is sold. In this day and age of Ultra Bleaches, the somewhat higher concentrations of many of these newer bottled bleaches may only be at a 6.25% solution, but can be up to 7.25% solution (or more) and can vary accordingly depending upon brand. Usually, the solution strength will be printed somewhere on the label. For best results in not burning your plant tissue, its best to check this info out and reduce either the amount of bleach being used or the time of the plants in the dip, erring on the shorter time- frame as needed, for best safety of them, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > Thanks Lenny. I still have all the plants sitting in a bucket of water..lol! Ill have to get around to cleaning them and picking snails off today..their are tons of snails on them. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > NOOOOO... not one part water, one part bleach. That's a 50% bleach solution > and would quickly kill the plants... but you are right about it killing all > the parasites too... LOL. > > There are some that use one part bleach to 20 parts water as a two minute > dip and even that can harm some plants. Here's a couple of pages with info > on disinfecting/sanitizing plants. > > http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Angel > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:24 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > Wash it really well. Look under leaves. > I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part > bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the > parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it. > I think I just might just to know if it works. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > How do you cure it? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and > bacteria into ur tank. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> > To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our > smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant > while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long > runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from > the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of > minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, > > Heather > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 > Tested on: 8/6/2008 12:02:52 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29084	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions

Just fyi my petstore doesn't sell them and we DO tell them how big our pacus plecos goldfish karp and silvertips really get. But people unfortunately don't really tend to care they just want the fish... Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:51:51 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions God... you need to go give that pet store a good whooping and tell them I said it was OK for you to do it! ;-) Channel Catfish get HUGE... I think the world or Louisiana record is well over 100 pounds (5' to 6' long with a mouth big enough to eat a child). You would need a multi-thousand gallon tank to keep a channel catfish long term. What the heck is a pet store selling them for? Same for Pacu's and even for Common Plecos, Goldfish, etc., if they aren't telling the people how big these fish get, the stores should be getting in trouble. If they are telling people, then it's the people fault for buying them. He's getting aggressive because of basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. He knows that the 55G isn't enough tank for him, much less any other fish so he's trying to eliminate the competition. Fish release hormones into the water column and when these hormone levels get to a certain point, the fish will start becoming stunted but can also get aggressive if they don't want to be little runts the rest of their lives. The 55G isn't really enough tank for an Oscar either but I guess it can be done with frequent PWC's and lots of filtration and filter maintenance. Call your local public aquarium to see if they have any suggestions. He'll probably get too big for a normal sized pond also and will then start eating everything in their pond so I wouldn't go that route either. You can also search sites like PlanetCatfish.com and their forums for suggestions. Also check with your local Wildlife & Fisheries to see if they are native species to your area and maybe they might have some suggestions. Last but not least.... have you thought of Zatarain's Fish Fry? As Mark Twain once said... "Them thar catfish make good eatin!" (Just kidding... maybe... since you'll have to let him grow a little bit more! He's barely sandwich size right now. LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He is attacking an oscar of about 8 inches. I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. His aggression got worse. I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or river. But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take him because of how territorially aggressive these fish are. If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole life, can he make it in the wild? Can these fish live in ponds? I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to send him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have another tank to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two days ago, and have none empty that don't leak). Thanks, anndrea _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 3:51:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29085	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

Thank you for the info Ray. -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Another new tank and plant question. Heather, If/when you decide on disinfecting your plants with bleach, it should be pointed out that the method (solution strength) that both Lenny and I recommended, 1 part bleach to 19 or 20 parts water, is a somewhat older but well proven practice. The regular bleach we are referring to is bottled (plastic-jugged) as a 5% or 5.25% solution as it is sold. In this day and age of Ultra Bleaches, the somewhat higher concentrations of many of these newer bottled bleaches may only be at a 6.25% solution, but can be up to 7.25% solution (or more) and can vary accordingly depending upon brand. Usually, the solution strength will be printed somewhere on the label. For best results in not burning your plant tissue, its best to check this info out and reduce either the amount of bleach being used or the time of the plants in the dip, erring on the shorter time- frame as needed, for best safety of them, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > Thanks Lenny. I still have all the plants sitting in a bucket of water..lol! Ill have to get around to cleaning them and picking snails off today..their are tons of snails on them. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > NOOOOO... not one part water, one part bleach. That's a 50% bleach solution > and would quickly kill the plants... but you are right about it killing all > the parasites too... LOL. > > There are some that use one part bleach to 20 parts water as a two minute > dip and even that can harm some plants. Here's a couple of pages with info > on disinfecting/sanitizing plants. > > http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Angel > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:24 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > Wash it really well. Look under leaves. > I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part > bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the > parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it. > I think I just might just to know if it works. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > How do you cure it? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and > bacteria into ur tank. > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> > To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our > smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant > while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long > runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from > the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of > minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, > > Heather > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 > Tested on: 8/6/2008 12:02:52 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29086	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Intestinal Disease Cure?

You're welcome! Your message came through fine. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "junglejingles" <mariajungle@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the help here Ray, your consideration on posting is much > appreciated! > > I am replying here by hitting the 'reply via web post' and hoping > this is the right method! > > Cheers! > Clarice > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Alright, your clarification is much appreciated, thank you. I'm > sure > > where you can see how this recommendation could lead to confusion > > since neither Melafix nor Aquarisol can treat an internal infection > > of any kind (bacterial or protozoan). When trying to post two > > different messages in the same thread, its often best to reply to > > each member's message separately if the gist of them are not > > related. In this way too, the original poster will know exactly > who > > (and what) you're replying to, and the rest of the membership can > > follow the threads more easily. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "junglejingles" <mariajungle@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, sure I would... > > > > > > Neither of these have to do with an internal treatment. The > thought > > > of using Melafix and/or Aquarisol was an expansion to the thought > > of > > > the previous poster when he said, "my first line of defense would > > be > > > using Melafix (which seems to be available everywhere)in the > water > > > column to see if that mild antibacterial treatment would give the > > > sick fish enough of a kick..." > > > > > > The discussion of an internal protozoan is presented as another > > > possible answer to the problem, separate from the one described > by > > > the previous poster. > > > > > > I was trying to add my thoughts as a follow-up, but somehow it > > looks > > > like it ended up being a separate post. I'm trying to figure out > > how > > > to post to the same thread on this board! > > > > > > Sorry for the confusion! > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Clarice, Would you please explain your rationale for using > > > > Melafix and/or Aquarisol as treatment(s) for an internal > > infection > > > > when neither one is absorpable internally. Thank you, Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Jung" <mariajungle@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What you describe could be attributed to an intestinal > > protazoan > > > > disease; > > > > > the darkening coloration and the swimming pattern. As Lenny > > says, > > > > it would > > > > > be a good idea to quarantine this fish, protozoan diseases > are > > > > highly > > > > > infectious. A treatment (which I believe can be safely used > in > > > > conjunction > > > > > with the Melafix) is to use a copper medication. Personally I > > like > > > > > Aquarisol. This is another less invasive treatment and will > not > > > > harm your > > > > > other fish or plants, though it will kill snails and other > > > > invertebrates. > > > > > > > > > > (A protozoan intensive medication would be metronidazole, > with > > > > about a 1% > > > > > addition to the food and about 12 mg per liter added to the > > > water. > > > > But I > > > > > cannot say for sure that this is what your fish is dealing > > with.) > > > > > > > > > > Good luck! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:40 AM, giuseppesalvato > > > > <giuseppesalvato@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I have a Pristella Maxillaris in distress showing a dark > > area > > > > in the > > > > > > intestins at the bladder level. I always noticed a small > dark > > > > area in > > > > > > the same place in that fish, but now the dark area is > bigger > > > and > > > > the > > > > > > fish tends to hide in a cave during the day, swimming in > > > circles > > > > almost > > > > > > horizontally. The Pristella doesn't eat almost anything at > > this > > > > point. > > > > > > When I turn the lights off it gets out of the cave and > swims > > > with > > > > the > > > > > > other fish. > > > > > > Is there any medicine you would recommend? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Giuseppe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Humans, the only animals with ego... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29087	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

You're welcome! I just wanted to ensure you took precautions with your plants. Your Java Moss is more delicate than others so I'd give it no more than 2 minutes -- or LESS; especially less if you're using an Ultra bleach, although as I said, some are only stronger by an additional 1%. Even at the recommended time frames, some hobbyists manage to burn some of their more delicate plants (like Crypts) disspite their added precautions. Potassium permanganate is still the safer way to go (I believe Kordon makes it), but you should know its a dye and will stain (your hands, clothes or . . ) if you're not careful. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > Thank you for the info Ray. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Another new tank and plant question. > > Heather, If/when you decide on disinfecting your plants with bleach, > it should be pointed out that the method (solution strength) that > both Lenny and I recommended, 1 part bleach to 19 or 20 parts water, > is a somewhat older but well proven practice. The regular bleach we > are referring to is bottled (plastic-jugged) as a 5% or 5.25% > solution as it is sold. In this day and age of Ultra Bleaches, the > somewhat higher concentrations of many of these newer bottled > bleaches may only be at a 6.25% solution, but can be up to 7.25% > solution (or more) and can vary accordingly depending upon brand. > > Usually, the solution strength will be printed somewhere on the > label. For best results in not burning your plant tissue, its best > to check this info out and reduce either the amount of bleach being > used or the time of the plants in the dip, erring on the shorter time- > frame as needed, for best safety of them, Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@> wrote: > > > > Thanks Lenny. I still have all the plants sitting in a bucket of > water..lol! Ill have to get around to cleaning them and picking > snails off today..their are tons of snails on them. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > > > NOOOOO... not one part water, one part bleach. That's a 50% bleach > solution > > and would quickly kill the plants... but you are right about it > killing all > > the parasites too... LOL. > > > > There are some that use one part bleach to 20 parts water as a two > minute > > dip and even that can harm some plants. Here's a couple of pages > with info > > on disinfecting/sanitizing plants. > > > > http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Angel > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:24 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > > > Wash it really well. Look under leaves. > > I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water > with 1 part > > bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of > all the > > parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to > try it. > > I think I just might just to know if it works. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > > > How do you cure it? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > > > U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites > and > > bacteria into ur tank. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> > > To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. > > > > We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL > our > > smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We > found a plant > > while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a > long > > runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a > plant from > > the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a > couple of > > minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, > > > > Heather > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 > > Tested on: 8/6/2008 12:02:52 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29088	From: Paula Brown	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Filter Intake Question

Okay, duckweed is continuing to haunt me as it has for about a year now. My filter intake's keep getting full of the darn (not the word I want to use!<G>) stuff. I want to put some pantyhose or a filter media bag over them but I am unsure as to what I can use to attach it to the filter intake with. A rubber band? One of those metal with plastic coating ties that garbage bags come with? One of those tie things that you put through the hole and tighten it that I use on my plants to hold them up (or handyfolks use to fix things)? I have noticed in my 10 gallon planted tank that the HOB barely lets any water flow out when the intake is loaded. But my other larger HOB's on other tanks have loaded intake's but the water still flows freely. Is this normal? Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29089	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Filter Intake Question

What about just lowering the level of the intake... aka extending the depth of the intake? The duckweed should be on the surface so if you put an extension tube on the intake so that it is near the bottom of the tank, you shouldn't have any problem with duckweed. If you leave it at the current level and just put something over the intake screen, then that will inevitably get clogged also. In my opinion, if you only have one filter system, it's better to have the intake deeper into a tank anyhow since that's where most of the stuff is that needs filtering. On my tanks, I usually have two filter systems, one with a deep intake and one with a shallow intake. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:56 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter Intake Question Okay, duckweed is continuing to haunt me as it has for about a year now. My filter intake's keep getting full of the darn (not the word I want to use!<G>) stuff. I want to put some pantyhose or a filter media bag over them but I am unsure as to what I can use to attach it to the filter intake with. A rubber band? One of those metal with plastic coating ties that garbage bags come with? One of those tie things that you put through the hole and tighten it that I use on my plants to hold them up (or handyfolks use to fix things)? I have noticed in my 10 gallon planted tank that the HOB barely lets any water flow out when the intake is loaded. But my other larger HOB's on other tanks have loaded intake's but the water still flows freely. Is this normal? Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 6:06:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 6:10:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29090	From: Debra	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

Speaking of escargot - has anyone tried using the large apple snails for this? Have any good recipes? Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:22:44 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. If you read those two pages I sent, they do have methods for de-snailing plants too so you won't have to hand pick them off. Besides, you'll never get all the snail eggs by hand anyhow. So will you be preparing an escargot dinner for the family tonight? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ~�Heather�~ Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Thanks Lenny. I still have all the plants sitting in a bucket of water..lol! Ill have to get around to cleaning them and picking snails off today..their are tons of snails on them. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. NOOOOO... not one part water, one part bleach. That's a 50% bleach solution and would quickly kill the plants... but you are right about it killing all the parasites too... LOL. There are some that use one part bleach to 20 parts water as a two minute dip and even that can harm some plants. Here's a couple of pages with info on disinfecting/sanitizing plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 <http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445> http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 <http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Wash it really well. Look under leaves. I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it. I think I just might just to know if it works. ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. How do you cure it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and bacteria into ur tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: ~�Heather�~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 1:22:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

Uh Oh... I hope the snail-huggers don't realize that I made the first "escargot" comment in an earlier reply. I don't need them throwing buckets of snail guts on me when I leave my house tomorrow. I guess I better go sprinkle salt all over my sidewalks tonight to keep them protesting snails away. But in answer to your question, here's a few recipes. http://www.recipeland.com/recipes/snail/ http://www.everylastrecipe.com/rdir-id-3543.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Speaking of escargot - has anyone tried using the large apple snails for this? Have any good recipes? Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:22:44 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. If you read those two pages I sent, they do have methods for de-snailing plants too so you won't have to hand pick them off. Besides, you'll never get all the snail eggs by hand anyhow. So will you be preparing an escargot dinner for the family tonight? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of ~Heather~ Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Thanks Lenny. I still have all the plants sitting in a bucket of water..lol! Ill have to get around to cleaning them and picking snails off today..their are tons of snails on them. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. NOOOOO... not one part water, one part bleach. That's a 50% bleach solution and would quickly kill the plants... but you are right about it killing all the parasites too... LOL. There are some that use one part bleach to 20 parts water as a two minute dip and even that can harm some plants. Here's a couple of pages with info on disinfecting/sanitizing plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 <http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445> <http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 <http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 <http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445> > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 <http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686> <http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 <http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 <http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686> > > Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Wash it really well. Look under leaves. I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it. I think I just might just to know if it works. ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. How do you cure it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and bacteria into ur tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: ~Heather~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 6:45:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29092	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Another new tank and plant question.

If you had tried that, you probably would not be recommending this method. That concentration of chlorine would Not only remove any parasites, but the life of the plant as well. Heather, unless you can identify the plant, leave it where it is. It may not be suitable for an aquarium. If you can identify the plant, and it seems to be suitable for aquarium life, you should use a bath of potassium permanganate or alum, and a good inspection before adding it to your tank. You may need to give it more than one bath. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. Wash it really well.  Look under leaves. I have read (I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT) that u can mix 1 part water with 1 part bleach and keep it in the water for a week and it will get rid of all the parsites and the plant will still live. Like I said. I have yet to try it.  I think I just might just to know if it works.  ----- Original Message ---- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:57:56 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. How do you cure it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <wellrimdangel@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. U will need to cure it first. U will be introducing wild paracites and bacteria into ur tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: "AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:54:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another new tank and plant question. We picked up another 55 today...which means we can get rid of ALL our smaller tanks except our fry tank and a sick tank.....YAY! We found a plant while out at the lake tonight that was fully submerged. Its like a long runner of some sort with pretty thin green leaves down it. Will a plant from the lake make it in a home tank? My daughter almost caught a couple of minnows by hand but she freaked out before she got them....LOL, Heather

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29093	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions

If you cannot find a good home for the fish, or put him in an outdoor pond (not a natural pond), you should humanely destroy the fish. Let this serve as an object lesson to all here. Do not purchase or accept a fish you do not know. Do your research first. Ensure you can properly care for the fish for its lifespan. If you have a fish, like this channel cat, a pacu, a red tailed cat, or another fish that will grow very large, it will be very difficult to sell, to donate to a public aquarium or zoo, and, especially, have your LFS take it back. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He is attacking an oscar of about 8 inches. I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. His aggression got worse. I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or river. But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take him because of how territorially aggressive these fish are. If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole life, can he make it in the wild? Can these fish live in ponds? I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to send him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have another tank to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two days ago, and have none empty that don't leak). Thanks, anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29094	From: L. Gove	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions

DO not release fish into the wild before finding out if the species already lives there! that is how soo many forin (sp?) species take over ponds, rivers, and streams. On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 10:38 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > If you cannot find a good home for the fish, or put him in an outdoor > pond (not a natural pond), you should humanely destroy the fish. > > Let this serve as an object lesson to all here. Do not purchase or > accept a fish you do not know. Do your research first. Ensure you can > properly care for the fish for its lifespan. If you have a fish, like > this channel cat, a pacu, a red tailed cat, or another fish that will > grow very large, it will be very difficult to sell, to donate to a > public aquarium or zoo, and, especially, have your LFS take it back. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Anndrea > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions > > Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He is attacking an oscar of > about 8 inches. > > I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. > > His aggression got worse. > > I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or > river. But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take > him because of how territorially aggressive these fish are. > > If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole > life, can he make it in the wild? > > Can these fish live in ponds? > > I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to > send him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? > > I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. > > Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have > another tank to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two > days ago, and have none empty that don't leak). > > Thanks, > anndrea > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29095	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

This guy isn't a fancy fish though. From my recollection, he's actually a rescued feeder. Every so often, my mom's friends will get their kids a feeder fish and when the end up living for years and years, the kids get sick of them, so we end up as the home for wayward fish (and turtles, mice, etc.) This guy was a feeder who was a few years old. Just a regular, stubby tailed goldie. Early in the season, he started getting pretty fat (looked like it was full of eggs) and all of the other females were also pretty fat with eggs, so we didn't make too much of it. Now though, it's still getting fatter! It's happy and eating, but so fat! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You know.. I just saw that Ray replied and I think I must have missed one of > the original posts about why you were asking. Ray explained about how > swim-bladder issues work. > > It sounds like you have long-bodied goldfish (comets, commons, etc.) and > they are less likely to have swim bladder issues compared to the fancy > round-bodied goldfish that have all of their organs distorted around inside > them and often times mutated/deformed organs due to the cross-breeding that > took place to get all the fancy types.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29096	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

Sounds like it could be the beginning stages of dropsy. Have you mentioned or read up on that yet? The rest of this thread got cut off so I can only read so much from this email. If you could get a picture of the fish from a top view, you would get a better idea. Dropsy causes the fishes scales to kind of pine-cone out a little. Many fish live rather long lives with dropsy symptoms and if your mom is willing, many veterinarians will treat goldfish/Koi and there is an antibiotic shot they can give fish that will help cure dropsy. If you go to my blog page about fish diseases, right near the top, I have some links to search for vets that treat fish. Sometimes, local universities have biology departments that have DVM's that teach and will treat sick fish as a way of training their students. I have info about this on my page also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thats albert fishs pelvis! yow! Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish question This guy isn't a fancy fish though. From my recollection, he's actually a rescued feeder. Every so often, my mom's friends will get their kids a feeder fish and when the end up living for years and years, the kids get sick of them, so we end up as the home for wayward fish (and turtles, mice, etc.) This guy was a feeder who was a few years old. Just a regular, stubby tailed goldie. Early in the season, he started getting pretty fat (looked like it was full of eggs) and all of the other females were also pretty fat with eggs, so we didn't make too much of it. Now though, it's still getting fatter! It's happy and eating, but so fat! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You know.. I just saw that Ray replied and I think I must have missed one of > the original posts about why you were asking. Ray explained about how > swim-bladder issues work. > > It sounds like you have long-bodied goldfish (comets, commons, etc.) > and they are less likely to have swim bladder issues compared to the > fancy round-bodied goldfish that have all of their organs distorted > around inside > them and often times mutated/deformed organs due to the cross-breeding that > took place to get all the fancy types. Messages in this topic _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080806-0, 08/06/2008 Tested on: 8/6/2008 10:14:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29097	From: Helen	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: WANTED: FISH TANK STAND

I'M LOOKING FOR A FISH TANK STAND, BUT I NEED A WOODEN STAND WITH DOORS AS IT'S A SALTWATER TANK AND HAS THINGS THAT NEED TO BE HIDDEN UNDERNEATH,, THE SIZE I NEED IS 18 1/4 X 36, NEEDS TO BE VERY STURDY AS IT HAS TO HOLD UP 55+ GALLONS OF WATER. THANX A BUNCH

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29098	From: Angel	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions

IS there a local free cycle or pet adoption yahoo group in your area?  I'm sure someone would give it a good home.  Catfish make ponds muddy too. Angel in Pa ----- Original Message ---- From: L. Gove <KWELYROOS71@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 10:48:04 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions DO not release fish into the wild before finding out if the species already lives there! that is how soo many forin (sp?) species take over ponds, rivers, and streams. On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 10:38 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: > If you cannot find a good home for the fish, or put him in an outdoor > pond (not a natural pond), you should humanely destroy the fish. > > Let this serve as an object lesson to all here. Do not purchase or > accept a fish you do not know. Do your research first. Ensure you can > properly care for the fish for its lifespan. If you have a fish, like > this channel cat, a pacu, a red tailed cat, or another fish that will > grow very large, it will be very difficult to sell, to donate to a > public aquarium or zoo, and, especially, have your LFS take it back. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] > On Behalf Of Anndrea > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions > > Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He is attacking an oscar of > about 8 inches. > > I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. > > His aggression got worse. > > I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or > river. But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take > him because of how territorially aggressive these fish are. > > If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole > life, can he make it in the wild? > > Can these fish live in ponds? > > I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to > send him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? > > I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. > > Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have > another tank to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two > days ago, and have none empty that don't leak). > > Thanks, > anndrea > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@ live.com on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@ gmail.com kwelyroos71@ yahoo.com kwelyroos71@ gmail.com www.myspace. com/adventures_ in_lobstering www.myspace. com/loves_ my_pipsqeak www.myspace. com/i_am_ the_famous_ spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29099	From: Matthew O' Farrell	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, allie1068@... wrote: > Yes he will including other fish. If it can fit in the mouth it will be eaten. People should do there homework before buying fish and not buy on impulse. Releaseing non native fish can be a disaster to the ecology"snakeheads ring a bell". Please ,please do your homework before you buy a fish that can be a tank buster or bully. > Here in indiana when you go fishing in lakes and rivers that's the only catfish that are in them are channel cats. He will do fine in a pond. They are scavengers so he will find all kind of yummy gross things to eat. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Anndrea" <anndreae@...> > > Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:13:09 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions > > > Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He is attacking an oscar of > about 8 inches. > > I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. > > His aggression got worse. > > I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or > river. But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take > him because of how territorially aggressive these fish are. > > If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole > life, can he make it in the wild? > > Can these fish live in ponds? > > I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to > send him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? > > I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. > > Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have > another tank to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two > days ago, and have none empty that don't leak). > > Thanks, > anndrea > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29101	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions

Its true, he will do fine in a pond, so long the pond is deep enough it does not freeze. but does this person realize how big this fish gets? Are they ready for it to eat their pond fish including large expensive koi? So if it is a fancy pond with the koi or nice goldfish in it, do them a favor and NOT give them the fish, it will eat them. If it is a normal natural pond he will do fine and will probably eat the annoying bluegill in it that post people want out of their ponds. But as stated by the previous person, if this is a non native fish, you can do alot of damage by releasing it. --- On Thu, 8/7/08, Matthew O' Farrell <mattyobones@...> wrote: From: Matthew O' Farrell <mattyobones@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 6:06 AM --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, allie1068@.. . wrote: > Yes he will including other fish. If it can fit in the mouth it will be eaten. People should do there homework before buying fish and not buy on impulse. Releaseing non native fish can be a disaster to the ecology"snakeheads ring a bell". Please ,please do your homework before you buy a fish that can be a tank buster or bully. > Here in indiana when you go fishing in lakes and rivers that's the only catfish that are in them are channel cats. He will do fine in a pond. They are scavengers so he will find all kind of yummy gross things to eat. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Anndrea" <anndreae@.. .> > > Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:13:09 > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions > > > Hi, I have a fish I need to get rid of. He is attacking an oscar of > about 8 inches. > > I moved them from a 20 gallon long to a 55 gallon tank. > > His aggression got worse. > > I was told by a fish store that I could release him to a stream or > river. But that I most likely would never find a fish store to take > him because of how territorially aggressive these fish are. > > If he was bought in a pet store, and has lived in tanks his whole > life, can he make it in the wild? > > Can these fish live in ponds? > > I may have found someone with a pond to take him, but I don't want to > send him there if he isn't going to survive...ya know? > > I need to get rid of him, but still want him to have a good life. > > Please tell me if you know of anything I could do. I don't have > another tank to put him in (had one crack and start leaking just two > days ago, and have none empty that don't leak). > > Thanks, > anndrea > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29102	From: john_walmer	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: custom fish

i want to tell you people about the license plate i made today its got a a yellow snapper on it its made out of mirriored acrylic its yellow on a black background ive been lookin for a good custom license plate for 2 years its the best ive seen and the cheapist i can get any kind of fish and get it customized with names sayings or anything else u whant if your interested just email me at john_walmer@yahoo,com thnak you

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29103	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Sick Gold Ram, but what?

Hello all, I have a sick female (dwarf) gold ram but can't quite identify the disease. She's in a 75gallon community tank, no other fish exhibit any problems (include tetras, cories, plecos, gouramis and blue rams). Her symptoms are; pale coloration (from a rich "gold" color she's now "pale yellow"), twitchy/spasmodic swimming (not all the time) and she goes up I believe for air at the surface BUT she doesn't stay at the surface or appear to be "gulping/gasping" for air (a term I've seen looking at various sites.) She still swims the whole tank, hasn't gotten shy, eats, etc. Last night I saw a behavior happen a few times which I thought certainly was the end ... kind of like a death-roll. She would spin a full 360 degrees two or three times but then right herself and stop. Checking this morning before heading to work she was still fine. Spoke to my wife a couple of hours ago and says she still has the twitch but noticed what appeared to be a small "flakey-scale" area. I hope to purchase a small 5-ish gallon tank to do as a hospital (unfortunately my 10 is currently in use as a quarantine.) However, does anyone have any clue as to what I'm trying to treat? Thanks; Jim home email: spockster59@... E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29104	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: VERY new Aquarium

I did the 25% pwc yesterday and used prime, fish stiff hovering in corner, did a ammonia test it shows 1.0 so should I do another 25% pwc again today, and I bought AMMO-CHIPS, so should I try to use this to reduce ammonia instead and do another reading tomorrow? Thanks Janis In a message dated 8/6/2008 4:57:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sevenspringss@... writes: --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@.Go> wrote: > > Yes, the Prime will help detoxify the ammonia while you complete the > "Cycling With Fish" process that you are currently stuck with. Prime will > > > Recent Activity * 23 _New Members_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMXUwcnVqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2d GwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMTgwNTYyMDA-) _Visit Your Group _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZHZlYmg4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGw Ec2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIxODA1NjIwMA--) Share Photos _Put your favorite_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13opc031b/M=493064.12016255.12445662.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218063400/L=/B=vyyHB0La X.w-/J=1218056200424998/A=4025373/R=0/SIG=12dtn7qjm/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/ev t=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting) photos and more online. Discover photos _and scrapbooking_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o8eblvd/M=493064.12717544.13024012.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218063400/L=/B=wCyHB0LaX .w-/J=1218056200424998/A=5370603/R=0/SIG=11lnr7bf1/*http://advision.webevents yahoo.com/familyographer/) groups in the Familyographer Zone Yahoo! Groups _Find balance_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13ou4ntvj/M=493064.12016238.12823558.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218063400/L=/B=wSyHB0LaX.w-/ J=1218056200424998/A=5286666/R=0/SIG=11in3uvr5/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/pl anforabalancedlife) between nutrition, activity & well-being. . **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29105	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

While the ammo-chips could help if your ammonia was higher, since it's only 1.0ppm, doing a 25% PWC would be your best bet. The problem with ammo-chips and other similar products (which is zeolite which absorbs the ammonia) is that you do not want to remove all of the ammonia as that would bring your nitrogen cycle to a standstill. I'm pretty sure I said don't buy anything else that the store might try to sell you but I understand your concern and the reason you also bought the ammo-chips. You can control the ammonia levels and keep them between 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm much easier with doing 25% PWC's as needed. If you use the ammo-chips, you'll have to test the water and remove the ammo-chips whenever the ammonia gets down to 0.5ppm and then add them again when the ammonia gets to 1.0ppm. The ammo-chips will not help with the nitrite levels once they start so you will still have to remove them then and rely on PWC's to control the nitrite levels to keep them between 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm until they go down to 0.0ppm... at which point your tank should be fully cycled for your current fish load. The dilemma you are in with "Cycling With Fish" is that you have to let the ammonia (and eventual nitrites) get up to between 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm so that the good bacteria that you need to grow in your filter system will have something to eat. One strain eats the ammonia and converts it to nitrite. Then another strain will start to grow which will eat the nitrite and convert it to nitrate. Nitrates are not harmful at low levels and you can keep them at safe levels with your regular weekly (or more often if needed) 25% PWC's. You need to test the water every day and do PWC's as needed or add/remove the ammo-chips as needed. If you leave the ammo-chips in too long and it brings the ammonia down to 0.0ppm, then whatever nitrifying bacteria you might have started growing in your filter will starve and die off and you'll be back to square one again. I think the daily testing, using Prime and doing PWC's as needed is the better way to go since the ammo-chips could knock you back to the starting gate if you aren't careful and leave them in too long. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 2:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] VERY new Aquarium I did the 25% pwc yesterday and used prime, fish stiff hovering in corner, did a ammonia test it shows 1.0 so should I do another 25% pwc again today, and I bought AMMO-CHIPS, so should I try to use this to reduce ammonia instead and do another reading tomorrow? Thanks Janis In a message dated 8/6/2008 4:57:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> writes: --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ) , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@.Go> wrote: > > Yes, the Prime will help detoxify the ammonia while you complete the > "Cycling With Fish" process that you are currently stuck with. Prime will > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080807-0, 08/07/2008 Tested on: 8/7/2008 3:58:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29106	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

Ok, I've now taken a look at the fish. Honestly, what it appears to be (and let me know if this is possible) is a pearlscale hybrid. The head is growing out of the globe belly in that pearlscale kind of way, and the back end and lower belly have that pearlscale look, while the top of the fish and the tail fin appear to be that of a regular comet. Is this possible? He certainly didn't seem ill. He had no streaking, no pop eye, was moving fine (as fine as he can having swallowed a beach ball) and wasn't being shunned or attacked by any of the other fish. He ate in front of me and generally seemed in good shape. He's just an incredibly weird shape. So, the question stands, can you have a "half pearlscale" goldfish? Amalthea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29107	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

No, sadly, I'm acquainted with dropsy, and this guy doesn't have it. I'm convinced he's either part pearlscale, or has an absolutely perfect belly tumor. Amalthea --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Sounds like it could be the beginning stages of dropsy. Have you mentioned > or read up on that yet? The rest of this thread got cut off so I can only > read so much from this email. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29108	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

It's certainly possible. Regardless of the mutated features of the various goldfish types, they are all still the same exact species. How do you think the Dr. Frankensteinish breeders came up with all the mutated fancy goldfish? To me, it's one thing to cross breed or do selective breeding to enhance a fish (or other pet as long as the pet doesn't become a mutant) but I think some of these breeders have gone way overboard with some of the sometimes ghoulish features that they have cross-bred into what used to be a "normal" goldfish. If someone tried to breed dogs that had bubble eyes or missing limbs (fins) or growths on the top of their head... purely to try and sell these mutated breeds for more money, the local pet activists would be up in arms but goldfish seem to be OK to do these mutation experiments on. Imagine how many goldfish are "culled" (a nice word for "put to death because of deformities") before they come up with a mutated strain or feature that is marketable. Many of the feeder goldfish may even be offspring from crossbreeds that did not seem to have any fancy features so the breeders sold them off as feeder fish but then someone may have kept it as a pet and it eventually bred with another offspring with no fancy features but then when these two "normal" looking fish bred, they each contributed strains of the crossbreeding attempt and that led to some offspring having fancy features. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thats albert fishs pelvis! yow! Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 4:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish question Ok, I've now taken a look at the fish. Honestly, what it appears to be (and let me know if this is possible) is a pearlscale hybrid. The head is growing out of the globe belly in that pearlscale kind of way, and the back end and lower belly have that pearlscale look, while the top of the fish and the tail fin appear to be that of a regular comet. Is this possible? He certainly didn't seem ill. He had no streaking, no pop eye, was moving fine (as fine as he can having swallowed a beach ball) and wasn't being shunned or attacked by any of the other fish. He ate in front of me and generally seemed in good shape. He's just an incredibly weird shape. So, the question stands, can you have a "half pearlscale" goldfish? Amalthea Messages in this topic _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080807-0, 08/07/2008 Tested on: 8/7/2008 4:25:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29109	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

Thanks, so everytime I pwc I need to use prime? When would I use the water conditioner? and can I add a plant at this time, I already have a few from the start? In a message dated 8/7/2008 4:59:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: While the ammo-chips could help if your ammonia was higher, since it's only 1.0ppm, doing a 25% PWC would be your best bet. Recent Activity * 21 _New Members_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmb2wyYTI2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2d GwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMTgxNDI3MDg-) _Visit Your Group _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlczR2ZG5wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGw Ec2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIxODE0MjcwOA--) Biz Resources _Y! Small Business_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13otthup8/M=493064.12016255.12445662.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218149910/L=/B=NoxHAULa X94-/J=1218142710708828/A=4025321/R=0/SIG=12a352npd/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/ev t=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index) Articles, tools, forms, and more. Cat Groups _on Yahoo! Groups_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13ogvpjus/M=493064.12016263.12445670.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218149910/L=/B=N4xHAULaX 94-/J=1218142710708828/A=4836037/R=0/SIG=11olbte0b/*http://advision.webevents yahoo.com/catzone/index.html) discuss everything related to cats. Family Photos _Learn how to best_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13ocgff83/M=493064.12717544.13024012.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1218149910/L=/B=OIxHAULa X94-/J=1218142710708828/A=5370601/R=0/SIG=11lnr7bf1/*http://advision.webevents .yahoo.com/familyographer/) capture your family moments. . **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29110	From: Angel	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

Bet u soon he will be swimming upside down for a few weeks. Is everyone still sure it isnt swim bladder? ----- Original Message ---- From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow! <amalthea23@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 5:03:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish question Ok, I've now taken a look at the fish.. Honestly, what it appears to be (and let me know if this is possible) is a pearlscale hybrid. The head is growing out of the globe belly in that pearlscale kind of way, and the back end and lower belly have that pearlscale look, while the top of the fish and the tail fin appear to be that of a regular comet. Is this possible? He certainly didn't seem ill. He had no streaking, no pop eye, was moving fine (as fine as he can having swallowed a beach ball) and wasn't being shunned or attacked by any of the other fish. He ate in front of me and generally seemed in good shape. He's just an incredibly weird shape. So, the question stands, can you have a "half pearlscale" goldfish? Amalthea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29111	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: VERY new Aquarium

You would need to add enough dechlor (Prime is also a dechlor) to treat just the water you are replacing. If I recall correctly, you have a 46G tank so if you do a 25% to 33% PWC, you would be removing 12G to 15G so you would add enough dechlor/Prime to treat the amount of tap water you are adding. I'm not sure what you mean by "water conditioner". I would call any dechlor product a water conditioner so the Prime is a water conditioner that also has added chemicals to treat ammonia to make it less toxic to fish. There is not much of a reason to add anything besides a regular dechlor product to most tanks but in your case since you are cycling a new tank with goldfish, Prime will at least help you with the ammonia issues you are having. Live plants are almost always a good thing for any tank as long as they are truly aquatic plants and plants that can do well in your aquarium set-up. Many stores sell plants as aquatic plants that aren't really aquatic and those kinds of plants will die in a short time and then start fouling your water instead of helping the ecology of the tank. Some plants require lots of lighting or certain water parameters. What kinds of plants do you have? These two pages have easy and very easy to care for plants so I would stick with these types for now. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> &filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> &filter_by=3 Also, goldfish are voracious plant eaters so it's important to use plants that can handle them. These pages have some of the more goldfish friendly plants. http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4468/gf_plants.html http://www.azgardens.com/habitats_goldfish.php http://thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishPlantsLowTech.html http://thegab.org/Articles/PottedPlants.html Also check out the goldfish care sheet on my blog as it explains why some of the other care sheets you find on the net are based on old and inaccurate information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 5:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] VERY new Aquarium Thanks, so everytime I pwc I need to use prime? When would I use the water conditioner? and can I add a plant at this time, I already have a few from the start? In a message dated 8/7/2008 4:59:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: While the ammo-chips could help if your ammonia was higher, since it's only 1.0ppm, doing a 25% PWC would be your best bet. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080807-0, 08/07/2008 Tested on: 8/7/2008 7:10:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29112	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?

What are your water parameters? Rams are one of the few fish that can be affected by pH and they are also sensitive to nitrates. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Springer,James C. Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 3:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick Gold Ram, but what? Hello all, I have a sick female (dwarf) gold ram but can't quite identify the disease. She's in a 75gallon community tank, no other fish exhibit any problems (include tetras, cories, plecos, gouramis and blue rams). Her symptoms are; pale coloration (from a rich "gold" color she's now "pale yellow"), twitchy/spasmodic swimming (not all the time) and she goes up I believe for air at the surface BUT she doesn't stay at the surface or appear to be "gulping/gasping" for air (a term I've seen looking at various sites.) She still swims the whole tank, hasn't gotten shy, eats, etc. Last night I saw a behavior happen a few times which I thought certainly was the end ... kind of like a death-roll. She would spin a full 360 degrees two or three times but then right herself and stop. Checking this morning before heading to work she was still fine. Spoke to my wife a couple of hours ago and says she still has the twitch but noticed what appeared to be a small "flakey-scale" area. I hope to purchase a small 5-ish gallon tank to do as a hospital (unfortunately my 10 is currently in use as a quarantine.) However, does anyone have any clue as to what I'm trying to treat? Thanks; Jim home email: spockster59@... E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29113	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: trick for extra bio wheels

I currently have (3) 55 gallons in my basement. 2 of them are empty. Im waiting for money to buy more accessories for them (gravel, heaters and plants to be exact). In the mean time I have 2 penguin 350 HOB that im not using but on my established tank I have 2 Emperor 400 HOB and a Magnum 350 canister. I took out the filter cartridges on the 400 and put the 350 HOB bio wheels in the slots where the filter cartidges go. They dont sit perfect, more like half in and half out and crooked, but they do spin. I pulled out the spray bars slightly on the 400s and rotated them past the lock so they spray backwards onto the crooked biowheels to make them spin slowly. The water flow makes the main wheels spin. So now I have 8 biowheels running and the canister just has the filter media in it and is doing the actual clean up. So when I do get the other tanks up at least I'll have some bacteria!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29114	From: James Springer	Date: 8/7/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > What are your water parameters? Rams are one of the few fish that can be > affected by pH and they are also sensitive to nitrates. > > \\Steve// 0 Ammonia, .1 ppm nitrite (though I find the Hagan test tough to read, will have to try the API one), 15ppm nitrate (generally has been 10ppm so this was a slight increase.) pH was 7.4. Also, 4dKH and 8dGH. It is a planted tank. The blue rams are fine (and as mentioned, everyone else), just the gold. I was able to pickup a 5 gallon tonight, filled it with water from the 75 (and some substrate from the same) and got her moved over. Since I wasn't sure the exact issue, I have started a treatment of Maracyn-Two from Mardel (active ingredient, Minocycline) and a anti-bacteria fish food (not sure how effective that stuff is suppose to be) from Jungle (active ingredient in that is sodium sulfathiazole and nitrofurazone.) General question; should I add salt and boost the temp? I know certain freshwater fish are more sensitive to salt than others. Didn't know how the rams stood regarding this. General background; I just started in the hobby this year with a 10gallon at the beginning of January. Liked it enough to go ahead with the 75 gallon now. The 10 has become the quarantine during the 75gallon population process (now almost complete) and will become our kid's tank with each getting a fish (probably platy and/or guppies). I have some guys in quarantine now and the reason to run out and get the 5gallon as a hospital. She's doing well in there so far. Any thoughts/suggestions are appreciated, thanks. I've been picking up lots of info from here and mags etc. Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29115	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?

Whenever you have a fish that is ailing, and you do not know what the problem may be, you should not just add some kind of medication. The best course of action, in this case is to just raise the temperature of the water and add a small amount of salt to the water, until you can, relatively accurately, diagnose the problem. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Springer Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 11:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > What are your water parameters? Rams are one of the few fish that can be > affected by pH and they are also sensitive to nitrates. > > \\Steve// 0 Ammonia, .1 ppm nitrite (though I find the Hagan test tough to read, will have to try the API one), 15ppm nitrate (generally has been 10ppm so this was a slight increase.) pH was 7.4. Also, 4dKH and 8dGH. It is a planted tank. The blue rams are fine (and as mentioned, everyone else), just the gold. I was able to pickup a 5 gallon tonight, filled it with water from the 75 (and some substrate from the same) and got her moved over. Since I wasn't sure the exact issue, I have started a treatment of Maracyn-Two from Mardel (active ingredient, Minocycline) and a anti-bacteria fish food (not sure how effective that stuff is suppose to be) from Jungle (active ingredient in that is sodium sulfathiazole and nitrofurazone.) General question; should I add salt and boost the temp? I know certain freshwater fish are more sensitive to salt than others. Didn't know how the rams stood regarding this. General background; I just started in the hobby this year with a 10gallon at the beginning of January. Liked it enough to go ahead with the 75 gallon now. The 10 has become the quarantine during the 75gallon population process (now almost complete) and will become our kid's tank with each getting a fish (probably platy and/or guppies). I have some guys in quarantine now and the reason to run out and get the 5gallon as a hospital. She's doing well in there so far. Any thoughts/suggestions are appreciated, thanks. I've been picking up lots of info from here and mags etc. Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29116	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?

Make sure the ph is a little lower and keep the temp up to 82 F make a 25% water change and don't add salt the temp will be enough to combat anything parasitic. I keep Hi-Fin Gold and Blue Rams and my water parameters are as follows: temp 82-84 F, ph is a constant 6.5, nitrates 5 ppm, nitrites are 0 ppm, ammonia is 0 ppm, TDS (total dissolved solids) are between 150 ppm - 1100 ppm, alkalinity is 180ppm calcium carbonate. I use distilled water to top the tank off when the water level goes down due to evaporation. also look into using some type of ion exchange resin to keep any metals out of the water. I am currently using algone with great results. My rams love it I do not know if this will be helpful but I thought I would put my 2 cents worth in. --- On Thu, 8/7/08, James Springer <james.springer@...> wrote: From: James Springer <james.springer@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:46 PM --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > What are your water parameters? Rams are one of the few fish that can be > affected by pH and they are also sensitive to nitrates. > > \\Steve// 0 Ammonia, .1 ppm nitrite (though I find the Hagan test tough to read, will have to try the API one), 15ppm nitrate (generally has been 10ppm so this was a slight increase.) pH was 7.4. Also, 4dKH and 8dGH. It is a planted tank. The blue rams are fine (and as mentioned, everyone else), just the gold. I was able to pickup a 5 gallon tonight, filled it with water from the 75 (and some substrate from the same) and got her moved over. Since I wasn't sure the exact issue, I have started a treatment of Maracyn-Two from Mardel (active ingredient, Minocycline) and a anti-bacteria fish food (not sure how effective that stuff is suppose to be) from Jungle (active ingredient in that is sodium sulfathiazole and nitrofurazone. ) General question; should I add salt and boost the temp? I know certain freshwater fish are more sensitive to salt than others. Didn't know how the rams stood regarding this. General background; I just started in the hobby this year with a 10gallon at the beginning of January. Liked it enough to go ahead with the 75 gallon now. The 10 has become the quarantine during the 75gallon population process (now almost complete) and will become our kid's tank with each getting a fish (probably platy and/or guppies). I have some guys in quarantine now and the reason to run out and get the 5gallon as a hospital. She's doing well in there so far. Any thoughts/suggestion s are appreciated, thanks. I've been picking up lots of info from here and mags etc. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29117	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?

Make sure the ph is a little lower and keep the temp up to 82 F make a 25% water change and don't add salt the temp will be enough to combat anything parasitic. I keep Hi-Fin Gold and Blue Rams and my water parameters are as follows: temp 82-84 F, ph is a constant 6.5, nitrates 5 ppm, nitrites are 0 ppm, ammonia is 0 ppm, TDS (total dissolved solids) are between 150 ppm - 1100 ppm. I use distilled water to top the tank off when the water level goes down due to evaporation. also look into using some type of ion exchange resin to keep any metals out of the water. I am currently using algone with great results. My rams love it I do not know if this will be help --- On Thu, 8/7/08, James Springer <james.springer@...> wrote: From: James Springer <james.springer@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:46 PM --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > What are your water parameters? Rams are one of the few fish that can be > affected by pH and they are also sensitive to nitrates. > > \\Steve// 0 Ammonia, .1 ppm nitrite (though I find the Hagan test tough to read, will have to try the API one), 15ppm nitrate (generally has been 10ppm so this was a slight increase.) pH was 7.4. Also, 4dKH and 8dGH. It is a planted tank. The blue rams are fine (and as mentioned, everyone else), just the gold. I was able to pickup a 5 gallon tonight, filled it with water from the 75 (and some substrate from the same) and got her moved over. Since I wasn't sure the exact issue, I have started a treatment of Maracyn-Two from Mardel (active ingredient, Minocycline) and a anti-bacteria fish food (not sure how effective that stuff is suppose to be) from Jungle (active ingredient in that is sodium sulfathiazole and nitrofurazone. ) General question; should I add salt and boost the temp? I know certain freshwater fish are more sensitive to salt than others. Didn't know how the rams stood regarding this. General background; I just started in the hobby this year with a 10gallon at the beginning of January. Liked it enough to go ahead with the 75 gallon now. The 10 has become the quarantine during the 75gallon population process (now almost complete) and will become our kid's tank with each getting a fish (probably platy and/or guppies). I have some guys in quarantine now and the reason to run out and get the 5gallon as a hospital. She's doing well in there so far. Any thoughts/suggestion s are appreciated, thanks. I've been picking up lots of info from here and mags etc. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29118	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?

Also I forget to say that using a good peat moss extract i.e. Blackwater extract additive will benefit the Rams and help stabilize the water. --- On Fri, 8/8/08, Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 8:27 AM Make sure the ph is a little lower and keep the temp up to 82 F make a 25% water change and don't add salt the temp will be enough to combat anything parasitic. I keep Hi-Fin Gold and Blue Rams and my water parameters are as follows: temp 82-84 F, ph is a constant 6.5, nitrates 5 ppm, nitrites are 0 ppm, ammonia is 0 ppm, TDS (total dissolved solids) are between 150 ppm - 1100 ppm. I use distilled water to top the tank off when the water level goes down due to evaporation. also look into using some type of ion exchange resin to keep any metals out of the water. I am currently using algone with great results. My rams love it I do not know if this will be help --- On Thu, 8/7/08, James Springer <james.springer@ cna.com> wrote: From: James Springer <james.springer@ cna.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:46 PM --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > What are your water parameters? Rams are one of the few fish that can be > affected by pH and they are also sensitive to nitrates. > > \\Steve// 0 Ammonia, .1 ppm nitrite (though I find the Hagan test tough to read, will have to try the API one), 15ppm nitrate (generally has been 10ppm so this was a slight increase.) pH was 7.4. Also, 4dKH and 8dGH. It is a planted tank. The blue rams are fine (and as mentioned, everyone else), just the gold. I was able to pickup a 5 gallon tonight, filled it with water from the 75 (and some substrate from the same) and got her moved over. Since I wasn't sure the exact issue, I have started a treatment of Maracyn-Two from Mardel (active ingredient, Minocycline) and a anti-bacteria fish food (not sure how effective that stuff is suppose to be) from Jungle (active ingredient in that is sodium sulfathiazole and nitrofurazone. ) General question; should I add salt and boost the temp? I know certain freshwater fish are more sensitive to salt than others. Didn't know how the rams stood regarding this. General background; I just started in the hobby this year with a 10gallon at the beginning of January. Liked it enough to go ahead with the 75 gallon now. The 10 has become the quarantine during the 75gallon population process (now almost complete) and will become our kid's tank with each getting a fish (probably platy and/or guppies). I have some guys in quarantine now and the reason to run out and get the 5gallon as a hospital. She's doing well in there so far. Any thoughts/suggestion s are appreciated, thanks. I've been picking up lots of info from here and mags etc. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29119	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Gold Ram, but what?

> From: Richard Haley > Also I forget to say that using a good peat moss extract > i.e. Blackwater extract additive will benefit the Rams and > help stabilize the water. Thanks Richard and Steve for your feedback. I have setup a 5 gallon as a hospital tank for the time being and will start to gradually raise the temperature when I'm home this evening. And Steve, yea, I wasn't fond I just throwing a med in but felt I needed to do something. I realize an over reaction but at least she's still OK as of this morning. Thanks all. Jim E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29120	From: Anndrea	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: 7-8 inch Channel catfish questions

I would imagine the guy knows what he is doing...seemed the outdoor woodsy type, and works in a hunting/fishing/sporting goods store... BUT, I think he said his pond has other catfish in it...like maybe it is a catfish pond or something? He seemed to know a LOT about them... Someone responded to my ad on Craigslist...has a huge tank with an oscar and other stuff in it...I told him that is my problem, that he is attacking my oscar...and that if he decided he wanted the fish anyway, that before he flush it, kill it, or release it, that he give it back, and I would find a tank to put it in alone... I have a feeling that is what is going to happen anyway... I hope you guys don't get me wrong...I like this fish...always wanted a catfish...yes, just because they look neat...I don't want to get rid of him...just really need to stop the violence, ya know? So...I think I will put him in a tank alone (I ended up getting one off of freecycle yesterday), and take a long time to find the right home for him...and possibly in the end, keep him. Thanks for the info...and I will be more careful in the future regarding any new type of fish I want to get... anndrea --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Walker <playnwifsnot@...> wrote: > > Its true, he will do fine in a pond, so long the pond is deep enough it does not freeze. but does this person realize how big this fish gets? Are they ready for it to eat their pond fish including large expensive koi? So if it is a fancy pond with the koi or nice goldfish in it, do them a favor and NOT give them the fish, it will eat them. If it is a normal natural pond he will do fine and will probably eat the annoying bluegill in it that post people want out of their ponds. But as stated by the previous person, if this is a non native fish, you can do alot of damage by releasing it. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29121	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: snails- oh my!

I just received an order of plants I purchased on EBay- very nice I might add- but they included 6 Marble snails. what do I do with them? The plants are for an uncycled 10 gallon that I was planning to do fishless cycling. My other tank is a 20G that is halfway through cycling. Where should I put the snails? How do I feed them? Sorry to be so dumb but I barely know how to feed my fish Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29122	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

If this had just happened, that's what I'd think, but it's been several months that he's been slowly growing, and on top of that, when a fish has a swim bladder problem, you can usually see it struggle a bit. Sometimes they'll right themselves for a few seconds, and then they'll roll. This guy is fully able to control his movements, and looks perfectly healthy, golfball belly aside. I think he's just a weird mix that would never make it as good breeding stock, but as a pet, is just fine out in the pond. Amalthea --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Angel <wellrimdangel@...> wrote: > > Bet u soon he will be swimming upside down for a few weeks. Is everyone still sure it isnt swim bladder? > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29123	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: My name is Patricia.

I am new here.I have several fish. Hello all.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29124	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!

sale them, get a jar of water add them, feed them fish food, very little, they eat algae and fish food on bottom,that would be lovely in a none fish tank, > > I just received an order of plants I purchased on EBay- very nice I might add- but they included 6 Marble snails. what do I do with them? > The plants are for an uncycled 10 gallon that I was planning to do fishless cycling. My other tank is a 20G that is halfway through cycling. > Where should I put the snails? How do I feed them? > Sorry to be so dumb but I barely know how to feed my fish > > Grammy Pat > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29125	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!

Are you "fishless cycling" using the plain ammonia method? It's not usually a good idea to do this with plants in the tank as the plants will suck up some or all of the ammonia which will slow down or completely starve off (if enough plants) the nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia that they also need to survive. Of course, if you have enough plants in a tank and you don't overstock the tank with fish, it will technically not need to be cycled since the plants will utilize any ammonia put out by the fish so you would not experience the ammonia/nitrite spike that happens when cycling without plants. Fishless cycling is primarily used when wanting to partially or fully stock a tank right away and maybe one only has a few live plants or none at all. If you are planning on keeping a nicely planted tank with enough fast growing plants, then fishless cycling isn't something that has to be done. Many people are intimidated by a moderate to heavily planted tank, or maybe they have fish like certain cichlids and goldfish that are terrors to live plants so fishless cycling is a viable alternative for them in order to fully cycle a tank without harming the fish. If you are simply running the tank(s) with plants in them and not adding plain ammonia to "fishless cycle" the tanks, then you could just add the snails now. BTW... what are Marble Snails... I haven't heard of them before. I did a quick Google and found this one article http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm and it says that one species of the Nerite Snail is sometimes called the "Black Marble" snail. Is that what you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzy Snowflake Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 2:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] snails- oh my! I just received an order of plants I purchased on EBay- very nice I might add- but they included 6 Marble snails. what do I do with them? The plants are for an uncycled 10 gallon that I was planning to do fishless cycling. My other tank is a 20G that is halfway through cycling. Where should I put the snails? How do I feed them? Sorry to be so dumb but I barely know how to feed my fish Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080808-0, 08/08/2008 Tested on: 8/8/2008 9:35:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29126	From: allen elliott	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Re: My name is Allen.(Introduction and reply to Patricia)

Hello Patricia,  I too am new to the group. I live in a small farming community in West Texas, where I am a Power Lineman. I have two ponds in my backyard, one for my Koi and the other a mix of goldfish and comets. I just reworked my koi pond and enlarged it and added a falls. I will get some pics uploaded soon. I look forward to getting to know everyone. Happy Ponding. Allen Elliott ROLLING_E_LOFTS@... http://www.englishtrumpeter.com --- On Fri, 8/8/08, texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@...> wrote: From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] My name is Patricia. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 9:19 PM I am new here.I have several fish. Hello all. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29127	From: Jenn	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: Freshwater Pipefish

Hello all! I have been keeping an eye on some freshwater pipefish that are at the store that I work at. They've been there for over a month and are eating frozen mysis shrimp and guppie fry and are doing very good. I was thinking about getting a pair to keep with the female Discus and male Angelfish that I "inherited". My question is, compatibility wise, would this work (both are non aggressive fish) and does anyone know how to sex the pipefish? Would it be similar to sexing seahorses (small or no anal fin on a female). Do I always come up with off the wall questions or what? jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29128	From: Jenn	Date: 8/8/2008
Subject: New photos

Hello all! I posted some pictures of my rainbows in the Jenn's photos album. Some of them are a little blurry but the colors show up. I have a few that I would like some opinions as to ID. I should have some pics of the mystery cichlids from the feeder tank soon to post also. Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29129	From: harry perry	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn

Is this it?. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Enneacampus_ansorgii.html I suspect you look for the pouch for the male. Harry --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: From: Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Freshwater Pipefish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 1:58 AM Hello all! I have been keeping an eye on some freshwater pipefish that are at the store that I work at. They've been there for over a month and are eating frozen mysis shrimp and guppie fry and are doing very good. I was thinking about getting a pair to keep with the female Discus and male Angelfish that I "inherited". My question is, compatibility wise, would this work (both are non aggressive fish) and does anyone know how to sex the pipefish? Would it be similar to sexing seahorses (small or no anal fin on a female). Do I always come up with off the wall questions or what? jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29130	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Snails, plants and confusion

Now I'm very confused! I'll get to that in a minute I put the snails in the planted tank for now. The invoice I got said they were sending me marble snails. They don't look like marble snails. They have a greenish/whitish cone shape like a horn. I couldn't find any snail pictures to identify them. So I feed them a little flake? There is no algae in the tank its only been planted a couple of days. Now to fishless cycling. I am cycling my other tank with fish in it. I didn't know any better when I started. Relied on the Pet smart for help. It is a nightmare worrying about these fish (3 platys and a molly) and ammonia levels and still no nitrites after 5 weeks. This tank is a 20 G with plastic and silk plants. I wanted to try a planted tank so I picked up a 10 G at a yard sale. I used eco-complete at the bottom, some rocks and driftwood. Now I have the plants in. (and the snails, LOL) I don't want to put fish in until its ready. so how do I cycle it. Will the plants alone be enough without me adding ammonia? I am getting a piece of filter from a friend today for my other tank and hope that gets it moving. If the piece is big enough should I put some of it on the planted tank filter? How long do I wait and how often do I test the planted tank. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29131	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: New photos

Hey, Jenn, I went to look at it - and it is taking forever to get past teh a's in the group albums. Want to maybe post a link to the folder? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 1:10 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] New photos Hello all! I posted some pictures of my rainbows in the Jenn's photos album. Some of them are a little blurry but the colors show up. I have a few that I would like some opinions as to ID. I should have some pics of the mystery cichlids from the feeder tank soon to post also. Thanks! ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29132	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Snails, plants and confusion

OK. Lets talk about the tank where you are "Cycling With Fish" first. You have four small fish in a 20G tank and have some fake plants too. You shouldn't be experiencing too much of a cycling issue but of course, you will experience some. Since you have your planted tank set up, I would move the four fish to the 10G planted tank and then finish "Fishless Cycling" the 20G with plain ammonia and with the soon-to-be added cycled filter media from your friend, it shouldn't take very long to finish cycling the 20G tank. I'm presuming you were planning on more than four fish for the 20G so once you have it fully cycled where it is cycling 5ppm of ammonia each day, you can add your new fish to the 20G. Keep your current four fish in the 10G for a few more weeks so you can technically use the 20G as a quarantine tank for all of your new fish to make sure they are all healthy before moving your current fish back to the 20G and moving any of the new fish to the 10G, if you were planning on other fish for the 10G. And yes, it wouldn't hurt to add a small piece of the cycled filter media to the 10G but it probably isn't needed if you have enough plants with only four fish. I have articles/directions on "Fishless Cycling" on my blog in case you need them. You should test the water in the 10G on a daily basis after moving the fish to that tank but in all likelihood, you will not experience much, if any ammonia readings since the plants will utilize the ammonia from the fish as a food source so you shouldn't have much of a cycling issue with that tank. Were you planning on permanently having fish in the planted tank also? If so, check out my blog for "Hailey's 10G Tank Stocking Suggestions" article for suitable fish for a 10G. As to the snails, I would contact the company and ask them what the species name is for the snails. Like I said in an earlier post, the only reference I saw to Marble Snails was where one of the species of the Nerite Snail had a common name of Black Marble Snail. Just like with fish, it's good to have a latin name for everything you keep since that is a more definitive way of identifying things since the common names are often used on multiple species. While I have some MTS, limpets and pond snails in my 10G Cherry Shrimp tank, I don't try to feed them anything. They just eat whatever is available... not much algae but they'll munch on plants, dead cherry shrimp, etc. I think most snails are scavengers but there are some like Apple Snails/Mystery Snails that also like a varied diet of fresh veggies, fruits, etc., but those snails get very big in comparison to most aquarium snails. You really need to find out the species of snails that you have so you can find out more detailed information on how to care for them. I'm thinking they are the Nerite snails since many planted tank enthusiasts are relying on them as algae eaters that do not eat plants and they are not prolific breeders since they mostly breed in brackish water, not freshwater. If you do a Google Image search for Nerite Snails, you may find pictures. Here's some of the sites I have in my favorites folder for them. http://www.azgardens.com/aquarium_snails.php http://www.snailshop.ashopcommerce.co.uk/c/117917/1/coldwater-snails.html http://naturalaquariums.com/inverts/snails.html http://www.snailshop.ashopcommerce.co.uk/c/117916/1/tropical-snails.html http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php I hope you're not even more confused now. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzy Snowflake Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 7:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails, plants and confusion Now I'm very confused! I'll get to that in a minute I put the snails in the planted tank for now. The invoice I got said they were sending me marble snails. They don't look like marble snails. They have a greenish/whitish cone shape like a horn. I couldn't find any snail pictures to identify them. So I feed them a little flake? There is no algae in the tank its only been planted a couple of days. Now to fishless cycling. I am cycling my other tank with fish in it. I didn't know any better when I started. Relied on the Pet smart for help. It is a nightmare worrying about these fish (3 platys and a molly) and ammonia levels and still no nitrites after 5 weeks. This tank is a 20 G with plastic and silk plants. I wanted to try a planted tank so I picked up a 10 G at a yard sale. I used eco-complete at the bottom, some rocks and driftwood. Now I have the plants in. (and the snails, LOL) I don't want to put fish in until its ready. so how do I cycle it. Will the plants alone be enough without me adding ammonia? I am getting a piece of filter from a friend today for my other tank and hope that gets it moving. If the piece is big enough should I put some of it on the planted tank filter? How long do I wait and how often do I test the planted tank. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080809-0, 08/09/2008 Tested on: 8/9/2008 11:57:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29133	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: New photos

While looking at the main Photos page, click on the "List" view and then on the right side, you can sort by "Last Modified" and you will see Jenn's Photos right at the top. Here's the link since I'm on the page right now but it may break. http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/319d?m=l Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 10:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New photos Hey, Jenn, I went to look at it - and it is taking forever to get past teh a's in the group albums. Want to maybe post a link to the folder? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenn" <jennhonaker1974@... <mailto:jennhonaker1974%40yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 1:10 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] New photos Hello all! I posted some pictures of my rainbows in the Jenn's photos album. Some of them are a little blurry but the colors show up. I have a few that I would like some opinions as to ID. I should have some pics of the mystery cichlids from the feeder tank soon to post also. Thanks! ------------------------------------ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080809-0, 08/09/2008 Tested on: 8/9/2008 12:01:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29134	From: shari rivenburg	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: spray bar position?

What is the correct position for the direction of water flow from a horizontal spray bar? Down towards the bottom or up to the top to agitate the water? Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29135	From: wellrimdangel	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

What about having their eggs backed up? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!" <amalthea23@...> wrote: > > If this had just happened, that's what I'd think, but it's been > several months that he's been slowly growing, and on top of that, when > a fish has a swim bladder problem, you can usually see it struggle a > bit. Sometimes they'll right themselves for a few seconds, and then > they'll roll. This guy is fully able to control his movements, and > looks perfectly healthy, golfball belly aside. I think he's just a > weird mix that would never make it as good breeding stock, but as a > pet, is just fine out in the pond. > Amalthea > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Angel <wellrimdangel@> wrote: > > > > Bet u soon he will be swimming upside down for a few weeks. Is > everyone still sure it isnt swim bladder? > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29136	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: spray bar position?

I normally aim the spray bars horizontally, or slightly downward. In a properly stocked and maintained tank, you really do not need to worry about agitating the surface water. The natural movement of the water should be sufficient. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 1:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] spray bar position? What is the correct position for the direction of water flow from a horizontal spray bar? Down towards the bottom or up to the top to agitate the water? Shari

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29137	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: spray bar position?

Depends on the tank, size, fish, plants, etc. I have mine spraying up towards the surface to increase surface agitation and gas exchange in my goldfish tank but some fish that are surface dwellers might not like that much current... or maybe they would... same for bottom dwellers, if you have plants, etc. It's why they let you angle it how you want. What kind of tank, plants, fish, etc., do you have? What size and what is the flow rate on your filter? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 12:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] spray bar position? What is the correct position for the direction of water flow from a horizontal spray bar? Down towards the bottom or up to the top to agitate the water? Shari _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080809-0, 08/09/2008 Tested on: 8/9/2008 3:58:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29138	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: spray bar position?

Oh yeah.. that reminds me. I have my intake and the return spray bar, both on the same end of the tank with the spray bar on the side of the tank aiming towards the other end of the 4' tank. I have the intake for my canister as deep as it will go to about an inch from the bottom of the tank so that I am getting complete circulation since the water spraying out the spray bar goes to the other end of the tank and then returns to the originating end to the intake. I also have a second filter system, a bio-wheel 200 on the other end of the tank for redundancy and added filtration. It's a 65G tank with two fancy goldfish and a 2" clown pleco (gets around 5" full grown). -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] spray bar position? I normally aim the spray bars horizontally, or slightly downward. In a properly stocked and maintained tank, you really do not need to worry about agitating the surface water. The natural movement of the water should be sufficient. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of shari rivenburg Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 1:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] spray bar position? What is the correct position for the direction of water flow from a horizontal spray bar? Down towards the bottom or up to the top to agitate the water? Shari _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080809-0, 08/09/2008 Tested on: 8/9/2008 4:03:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29139	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: spray bar position?

Hi Shari, I have been using filters that return the water using these spray bars. I think the use of these with surface agitation increases the DO (Dissolved Oxygen) numbers as warmer water holds less than cooler water and most tanks are around 79 or 80 degrees F. I aim mine depending on the type of fish and how many larger plants or obstructions are in the tank. You do not want to cause the fish to have to fight a current all the time. That is what the plants help stop. I aim my bars about an angle where the spray is in line with the opposite corner of the tank. There really is no fast rule except you may want to spray directly into the water instead of across it as you can lose water from it splashing outside the tank. I from experience also recommend using a hose clamp to make sure the hose does not disconnect from the spray tube as that can pump out your tank fast as well as flooding the room. I have had then start to leak but never had one come completely off but using the stainless hose clamps- there is no way for it to come off. I have been an aquarium owner since 1974 and have two 55 Gal plus a Pond in the back yard. */Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago /* *Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs.* Steve Szabo wrote: > > I normally aim the spray bars horizontally, or slightly downward. In a > properly stocked and maintained tank, you really do not need to worry > about agitating the surface water. The natural movement of the water > should be sufficient. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of shari rivenburg > Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 1:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] spray bar position? > > What is the correct position for the direction of water flow from a > horizontal spray bar? Down towards the bottom or up to the top to > agitate the water? > Shari > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29140	From: Jenn	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn

I really don't know! I did a google search also but didn't have much luck finding any clear pictures. Also, we all know how much color can vary within the same species... I will try to get the proper name from the distributor's invoice. jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29141	From: harry perry	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn/again

Does it look like this?.http://tinyurl.com/6pasr6 --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: From: Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 5:55 PM I really don't know! I did a google search also but didn't have much luck finding any clear pictures. Also, we all know how much color can vary within the same species... I will try to get the proper name from the distributor' s invoice. jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29142	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn

The original answer got snipped from the email thread but I seem to remember that there was a link to a Mongabay profile on the fish. Did you look at the pictures associated with that profile? Here's the Mongabay profile that I just found which I think is the same one provided earlier. Click on the "Pictures" link. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Enneacampus_ansorgii.html with a SYN: Syngnathus ansorgii so it does appear to be the same family as the ones listed on Fishbase.org Here's a few others with different species names. http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSearchSpeciesList.cfm?CommonName= Freshwater%20pipefish And then lastly, there's wikipedia.. lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipefish Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn I really don't know! I did a google search also but didn't have much luck finding any clear pictures. Also, we all know how much color can vary within the same species... I will try to get the proper name from the distributor's invoice. jenn _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080809-0, 08/09/2008 Tested on: 8/9/2008 5:10:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29143	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn

Just tagging in here because I'm too lazy tonight to look up the original message. If you use www.fishbase.org, and search using the genus name Syngnathus (make sure the species name drop box shows contains, but leave the name box blank) , you'll come up with a multitude of species of pipefish, many of which have had name changes over time. If you search by common name using freshwater pipefish, you will come up with a number of them, but only 7 species, which is actually missing some that are listed as being found in freshwater under the genus search. I am reporting this because it is probably significant that you know which species you have, since most of those found in freshwater are also found in brackish and marine water. To me this means that most of these fish are probably not truly freshwater fish, but are there for a reason and will move back into brackish and/or marine water, probably spending most of their time in brackish water. I did note that, of those I looked at, only one was listed as freshwater only. The others may be found is freshwater as juveniles, some may breed in freshwater, some may just spend time feeding and cruising around in freshwater. If you have a species that is also found in brackish and/or marine water, you will need to, at least occasionally add marine salt to your water to satisfy whatever need they have for moving into brackish and/or marine waters. Once you have identified the species, you may be able to find more information on the fish to determine if you should really be maintaining the fish in a brackish to marine environment. If the fish has a need for a salty environment, you will be shortening its lifespan by keeping it in freshwater only, and your original question about sexing the fish (males have a pouch) will be moot, since they most likely will not breed for you. Oh yeah, FWIW, the invoice is unlikely to help you identify the fish. Importers and distributors are not unknown to give the fish a name if they think it will help them sell the fish. This is why it is very bad to use common names for fish other than well established fish in the hobby. Even this is not true--the paradise fish, which has been known by that name since the 1800's is now most often seen as the paradise gourami. While it is a labyrinth fish, like gouramis, it is not a gourami. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 6:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn The original answer got snipped from the email thread but I seem to remember that there was a link to a Mongabay profile on the fish. Did you look at the pictures associated with that profile? Here's the Mongabay profile that I just found which I think is the same one provided earlier. Click on the "Pictures" link. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Enneacampus_ansorgii.html with a SYN: Syngnathus ansorgii so it does appear to be the same family as the ones listed on Fishbase.org Here's a few others with different species names. http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSearchSpeciesList.cfm?CommonN ame= Freshwater%20pipefish And then lastly, there's wikipedia.. lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipefish Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Freshwater Pipefish/Jenn I really don't know! I did a google search also but didn't have much luck finding any clear pictures. Also, we all know how much color can vary within the same species... I will try to get the proper name from the distributor's invoice. jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29144	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Snails, plants and confusion

I think this the one http://www.snailshop.ashopcommerce.co.uk/p/286777/malaysian-trumpet-snail-or-mts-melanoidis-tuberculata-adult.html They are enjoying themselves crawling all over the tank. My friend gave me some sponge from her cycled tank today so my 20G should be ok. I just need to be patient. There is enough to put some in both tanks. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29145	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: need info for Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model # AC-1

A friend gave me this fancy shmancy gizmo, that is a box with a digital keypad, and controls aquarium light, heater, pump, and also is a feeder. I tried looking up Creative Micro Controls, Inc., and found nothing. This box is too cute to let go of. I had not idea such a device was out there in the tropical fish industry. If anyone is familiar with it, or has a manual, please contact me. BTW, I enjoy reading the email from this group. And enjoy the questions and responses to the newbies. TIA for any help or info. Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29146	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: Snails, plants and confusion

MTS are not big algae eaters and usually spend a lot of time burrowing into the substrate if the substrate isn't too big. People with sand as a substrate use MTS to keep the sand from getting compacted which can form anaerobic bacteria problems. They burrow in the substrate looking for and eating any food so they are a good thing. They also are not prolific breeders so you won't have a problem with them taking over the tank. My experience with them is that they prefer harder water and above neutral pH so if you do not have harder water and higher pH water, you may have to add some baking soda or other supplements. If you are going to keep snails as part of your ecosystem, it's a good idea to make sure they also get enough calcium via foods or the water column. A small piece of cuttle bone hidden behind something (the kind used for birds and one cuttle bone will last you at least a year) will give them some actual calcium to chew on and the cuttle bone will slowly dissolve in the tank adding calcium to the water column. They need this calcium and other hard water minerals to build nice strong shells. Applesnail.net has a couple of pages of calcium rich foods. Here is one I have in my favorites. http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzy Snowflake Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 7:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails, plants and confusion I think this the one http://www.snailshop.ashopcommerce.co.uk/p/286777/malaysian-trumpet-snail-or -mts-melanoidis-tuberculata-adult.html <http://www.snailshop.ashopcommerce.co.uk/p/286777/malaysian-trumpet-snail-o r-mts-melanoidis-tuberculata-adult.html> They are enjoying themselves crawling all over the tank. My friend gave me some sponge from her cycled tank today so my 20G should be ok. I just need to be patient. There is enough to put some in both tanks. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080809-0, 08/09/2008 Tested on: 8/9/2008 10:59:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2008
Subject: Re: need info for Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model # AC-1

Since I see "AC-1" as your model number, check out this page as they have similar model numbers (AC-Jr., AC-3 and AC-3 Pro). Maybe they took over Creative Micro Controls. http://www.neptunesys.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 8:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] need info for Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model # AC-1 A friend gave me this fancy shmancy gizmo, that is a box with a digital keypad, and controls aquarium light, heater, pump, and also is a feeder. I tried looking up Creative Micro Controls, Inc., and found nothing. This box is too cute to let go of. I had not idea such a device was out there in the tropical fish industry. If anyone is familiar with it, or has a manual, please contact me. BTW, I enjoy reading the email from this group. And enjoy the questions and responses to the newbies. TIA for any help or info. Jim _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080809-0, 08/09/2008 Tested on: 8/9/2008 11:12:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29148	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Rain Forest Fish

Hi Guys, My girlfriend is starting a south american rain forest tank and she was wondering of a good web site that offers examples of species of fish that would be authentic to such a tank beyond different varieties of tetra thanks Ken **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29149	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest Fish

Mongabay.com has some of the best and most thorough fish profiles/care sheets on the net. They also have biotopes broken down by various regions, lakes, etc.. Here's their page of biotopes so you not only have the fish but also the plants, etc. Scroll down a little for the South American section. http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm This place that is more of retail site also has a nice page on an Amazon Biotope. http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/amazonbiotope/amazon.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 9:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rain Forest Fish Hi Guys, My girlfriend is starting a south american rain forest tank and she was wondering of a good web site that offers examples of species of fish that would be authentic to such a tank beyond different varieties of tetra thanks Ken _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080809-0, 08/09/2008 Tested on: 8/10/2008 10:32:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29150	From: thats albert fishs pelvis! yow!	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Goldfish question

I suppose that's possible, but, again, it's been months and the fish doesn't show any signs of discomfort or illness. Also, that's apparently pretty rare in an environment with males and females and we have an abundant supply of both. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "wellrimdangel" <wellrimdangel@...> wrote: > > What about having their eggs backed up? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29151	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Rain Forest Fish

The catch-all phrase South American rain forest covers a lot of different territories in South America. Each, of course, has fish that is endemic to that area. You are right to say that there are a lot of characins in South America, but not all of them are tetras, and not all tetras have that typical, to some, torpedo like shape. There are also many catfish and cichlids to choose from About the only thing I found that may be helpful to you was this: "Structure of Fish Assemblages in Amazonian Rain-Forest Streams: Effects of Habitats and Locality "Cristina Motta Bührnheim and Cristina Cox Fernandes "Copeia, Vol. 2003, No. 2 (Jun. 23, 2003), pp. 255-262 (article consists of 8 pages)" Your best bet is to ask at your local library if they can get a copy of this through the interlibrary loan, or, if you live near a college or university with a strong biology department, see if they carry it in their science library. You can find it online at http://www.jstor.org/pss/1448667 but it will cost you to get the article. It will be loaded with scientific jargon, so it may not be the easiest read in the world, and you will likely not see terms like neon tetra, but _Paracheirodon innesi_. http://www.fishbase.org can help you sort things out, though. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 10:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rain Forest Fish Hi Guys, My girlfriend is starting a south american rain forest tank and she was wondering of a good web site that offers examples of species of fish that would be authentic to such a tank beyond different varieties of tetra thanks Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29152	From: Alan Henney	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Turtle ID?

Can somebody please ID this turtle for me? It was found today in the ocean surf in Delaware. http://henney.com/weekend12/turtle2.jpg Thanks, Alan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?

You found that in the ocean surf? Looks a lot like a RES (Red-Eared Slider) to me. How big is he? Is he small enough that maybe a bird picked him up from a local freshwater source and dropped him just offshore in the ocean? http://www.turtlesite.info/behavior/955/Red-Eared-Slider.html They get pretty big and a 1/2 filled 55G is the minimum sized tank to start off with for them and they will outgrow the 55G also and need a 150G++ sized tank for long term and get around 12" in diameter. They live for 25+ years. They shouldn't be kept with fish as the fish would likely become snacks/meals. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan Henney Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Turtle ID? Can somebody please ID this turtle for me? It was found today in the ocean surf in Delaware. http://henney.com/weekend12/turtle2.jpg <http://henney.com/weekend12/turtle2.jpg> Thanks, Alan _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080809-0, 08/09/2008 Tested on: 8/10/2008 3:56:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29154	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?

It looks like it may be a red eared slider. Check out Google images to confirm or deny. Or, for fun, you can look here: http://www.corhs.org/cars.html \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan Henney Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Turtle ID? Can somebody please ID this turtle for me? It was found today in the ocean surf in Delaware. http://henney.com/weekend12/turtle2.jpg Thanks, Alan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29155	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?

LOL... some people have far too much time on their hands (about \\Steve's// link). Per my previous reply, I believe it to be an RES also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 5:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turtle ID? It looks like it may be a red eared slider. Check out Google images to confirm or deny. Or, for fun, you can look here: http://www.corhs.org/cars.html \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Alan Henney Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Turtle ID? Can somebody please ID this turtle for me? It was found today in the ocean surf in Delaware. http://henney.com/weekend12/turtle2.jpg <http://henney.com/weekend12/turtle2.jpg> Thanks, Alan _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080809-0, 08/09/2008 Tested on: 8/10/2008 6:59:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29156	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/10/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?

Hmm... I think it's a turtle. .... running... Seriously, there's a way to identify turtles? I think it has a dark brown shell... could even be a porpoise. Tortoise. LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Henney" <alan@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:18 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Turtle ID? Can somebody please ID this turtle for me? It was found today in the ocean surf in Delaware. http://henney.com/weekend12/turtle2.jpg Thanks, Alan ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29158	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 8/11/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?

In a message dated 8/10/2008 3:47:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alan@... writes: Can somebody please ID this turtle for me? It was found today in the ocean surf in Delaware. _http://henney.http://henney.http://henn_ (http://henney.com/weekend12/turtle2.jpg) Thanks, Alan That is a red ear slider, a pet turtle. Obviously someone got rid of it. Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29159	From: Melissa Walker	Date: 8/11/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?

Its a red ear slider. --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: From: Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turtle ID? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 8:36 PM Without a better picture it's really impossible to tell what kind it is. It's easier to say what it isn't! LOL. By the type of shell, the yellow markings on the dark skin...I would say either a really dark Red Eared Slider or a Yellow Belly Slider. Someone probably had it as a pet and decided to dump it when they got bored with it. If you have any better pictures I could give you a better answer! Jenn aka: amateur herpetologist extraordinaire! --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alan Henney" <alan@...> wrote: > > > Can somebody please ID this turtle for me? > > It was found today in the ocean surf in Delaware. > > http://henney. com/weekend12/ turtle2.jpg > > Thanks, > Alan > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29160	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/11/2008
Subject: I am new here : My name is Patricia

I have several kinds of fish. I am in Texas. Whats your favorite kinda fish? Btw : i have applesnail eggs, how long does it take them to hack? do they need filter & oxygen also ?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29161	From: Alan Henney	Date: 8/11/2008
Subject: Turtle ID?

That identification was a great help, thank you very much! He's about five-inches long. We think he washed out the fresh water drain pipe from a local lake. I didn't find him, so he's not mine! Take care, Alan On 8/10/2008 6:11:54 PM, aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: > It looks like it may be a red eared slider. Check out Google images to > confirm or deny. > > Or, for fun, you can look here: http://www.corhs.org/cars.html > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [link: mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups. > com] [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [link: > mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]] > On Behalf Of Alan Henney > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [link: mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups. > com] > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turtle ID? > > Can somebody please ID this turtle for me? > > It was found today in the ocean surf in Delaware. > > http://henney.com/weekend12/turtle2.jpg > > Thanks, > Alan > > > Messages in this topic [link: groups.yahoo. > com/group/AquaticLife/message/29152;_ylc=X3oDMTM2cWZhMWczBF9TAzk3MzU5N zE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzI5MTU0BHNlYwN mdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIxODQwNjMxNwR0cGNJZAMyOTE1Mg- > -](3) Reply (via web post) [link: groups.yahoo. > com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxc3I2Zmx0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycE lkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzI5MTU0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xr A3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTIxODQwNjMxNw- > -?act=reply&messageNum=29154]| Start a new topic [link: groups.yahoo. > com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMTkwcmhkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGd

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29162	From: Jenn	Date: 8/11/2008
Subject: Re: Turtle ID?

I installed better photo editing software and lightened the picture up...everyone is right, it's a RES.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29163	From: Alan Henney	Date: 8/11/2008
Subject: Turtle ID?

That identification was a great help, thank you very much! He's about five-inches long. We think he washed out the fresh water drain pipe from a local lake. Take care, Alan On 8/10/2008 4:56:40 PM, aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: > You found that in the ocean surf? Looks a lot like a RES (Red-Eared > Slider) > to me. How big is he? Is he small enough that maybe a bird picked > him up > from a local freshwater source and dropped him just offshore in the > ocean? > http://www.turtlesite.info/behavior/955/Red-Eared-Slider.html > > They get pretty big and a 1/2 filled 55G is the minimum sized tank to > start > off with for them and they will outgrow the 55G also and need a > 150G++ sized > tank for long term and get around > 12" in diameter. They live for 25+ years. > They shouldn't be kept with fish as the fish would likely become > snacks/meals. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [link: mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [link: mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]] On > Behalf Of Alan Henney > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [link: mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turtle ID? > > Can somebody please ID this turtle for me? > > It was found to

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29164	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 8/12/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!

Gosh - that puzzles me. So, in a heavily planted tank you may starve your nitrifying bacteria? And then if you have a bunch of fry come along, will the bacteria come back? Do you even need a biowheel in a heavily planted tank? Barbara In a message dated 8/8/2008 10:35:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Are you "fishless cycling" using the plain ammonia method? It's not usually a good idea to do this with plants in the tank as the plants will suck up some or all of the ammonia which will slow down or completely starve off (if enough plants) the nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia that they also need to survive. Of course, if you have enough plants in a tank and you don't overstock the tank with fish, it will technically not need to be cycled since the plants will utilize any ammonia put out by the fish so you would not experience the ammonia/nitrite spike that happens when cycling without plants. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29165	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/12/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!

That statement is not true. While plants do need nitrogen, they will get the majority of it from nitrates, and not ammonia or nitrites. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 6:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] snails- oh my! Gosh - that puzzles me. So, in a heavily planted tank you may starve your nitrifying bacteria? And then if you have a bunch of fry come along, will the bacteria come back? Do you even need a biowheel in a heavily planted tank? Barbara In a message dated 8/8/2008 10:35:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Are you "fishless cycling" using the plain ammonia method? It's not usually a good idea to do this with plants in the tank as the plants will suck up some or all of the ammonia which will slow down or completely starve off (if enough plants) the nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia that they also need to survive. Of course, if you have enough plants in a tank and you don't overstock the tank with fish, it will technically not need to be cycled since the plants will utilize any ammonia put out by the fish so you would not experience the ammonia/nitrite spike that happens when cycling without plants.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29166	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!

Well, the plants will compensate and start absorbing more of the ammonia from the batch of fry. Plants grow more based on available resources (nitrogenous compounds like ammonia are one such resource, as well as light and CO2) so the plants will technically perk up and start growing a little faster with more ammonia available. Further, even in a heavily planted tank, I'm sure that some nitrifying bacteria will be growing in the filter media, etc., so when more "food" (ammonia) becomes available, they'll start multiplying based on the available ammonia. I read in some of Dr. Tim Hovenac's research, several years ago, that the N-bacteria colonies can double in size every 24-48 hours so while you might get a small ammonia spike, it shouldn't last long. Just like when adding new fish to an existing tank, you should also monitor water parameters on a daily basis on an existing tank with a new batch of fry also just so you will know that the tank is completing the nitrogen cycle properly and be prepared to do PWC's as needed if your ammonia/nitrite spikes get to the 1.0ppm level. As far as the Bio-Wheel, I don't think it is something that helps much in a heavily planted tank. Are you doing CO2 injection? If you are, then you want as little surface agitation as possible to keep the CO2 from outgasing. If you aren't doing CO2 injection, it's still probably better to limit the surface agitation om a planted tank to keep whatever CO2 that is put out by the ecology of the tank from outgasing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 5:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] snails- oh my! Gosh - that puzzles me. So, in a heavily planted tank you may starve your nitrifying bacteria? And then if you have a bunch of fry come along, will the bacteria come back? Do you even need a biowheel in a heavily planted tank? Barbara In a message dated 8/8/2008 10:35:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Are you "fishless cycling" using the plain ammonia method? It's not usually a good idea to do this with plants in the tank as the plants will suck up some or all of the ammonia which will slow down or completely starve off (if enough plants) the nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia that they also need to survive. Of course, if you have enough plants in a tank and you don't overstock the tank with fish, it will technically not need to be cycled since the plants will utilize any ammonia put out by the fish so you would not experience the ammonia/nitrite spike that happens when cycling without plants. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080811-0, 08/11/2008 Tested on: 8/12/2008 9:09:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29167	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!

Steve, All that I've read says that aquatic plants get more nutrition from ammonia/ammonium rather than nitrate like their terrestrial counterparts. I just did a quick Google and here's a well-referenced article by Diana Walstad that confirms this in the first and second paragraphs and goes into more detail in the rest of the article. http://www.aquabotanic.com/plants_and_biological_filtration.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 6:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] snails- oh my! That statement is not true. While plants do need nitrogen, they will get the majority of it from nitrates, and not ammonia or nitrites. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 6:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] snails- oh my! Gosh - that puzzles me. So, in a heavily planted tank you may starve your nitrifying bacteria? And then if you have a bunch of fry come along, will the bacteria come back? Do you even need a biowheel in a heavily planted tank? Barbara In a message dated 8/8/2008 10:35:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Are you "fishless cycling" using the plain ammonia method? It's not usually a good idea to do this with plants in the tank as the plants will suck up some or all of the ammonia which will slow down or completely starve off (if enough plants) the nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia that they also need to survive. Of course, if you have enough plants in a tank and you don't overstock the tank with fish, it will technically not need to be cycled since the plants will utilize any ammonia put out by the fish so you would not experience the ammonia/nitrite spike that happens when cycling without plants. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080811-0, 08/11/2008 Tested on: 8/12/2008 9:19:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29168	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/12/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!

Pretty much everything I have seen about plants and fishless cycling downplays any role the plants might have in removing the ammonia. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 10:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] snails- oh my! Steve, All that I've read says that aquatic plants get more nutrition from ammonia/ammonium rather than nitrate like their terrestrial counterparts. I just did a quick Google and here's a well-referenced article by Diana Walstad that confirms this in the first and second paragraphs and goes into more detail in the rest of the article. http://www.aquabotanic.com/plants_and_biological_filtration.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 6:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] snails- oh my! That statement is not true. While plants do need nitrogen, they will get the majority of it from nitrates, and not ammonia or nitrites. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 6:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] snails- oh my! Gosh - that puzzles me. So, in a heavily planted tank you may starve your nitrifying bacteria? And then if you have a bunch of fry come along, will the bacteria come back? Do you even need a biowheel in a heavily planted tank? Barbara In a message dated 8/8/2008 10:35:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Are you "fishless cycling" using the plain ammonia method? It's not usually a good idea to do this with plants in the tank as the plants will suck up some or all of the ammonia which will slow down or completely starve off (if enough plants) the nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia that they also need to survive. Of course, if you have enough plants in a tank and you don't overstock the tank with fish, it will technically not need to be cycled since the plants will utilize any ammonia put out by the fish so you would not experience the ammonia/nitrite spike that happens when cycling without plants. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080811-0, 08/11/2008 Tested on: 8/12/2008 9:19:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29169	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2008
Subject: Re: snails- oh my!

Well, according to the article that I referenced, by Diana Walstad (the author of several plant books) and all of the references she cites in that article, the overwhelming majority of plants utilize ammonium at a much faster rate (dozens or hundreds of times faster) than either nitrite or nitrate and the plants actually have to convert the nitrite/nitrate down to ammonium before using it which is why they use the ammonia much quicker and use it first and only after there is no ammonia available, then they'll start using the other nitrogenous compounds. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] snails- oh my! Pretty much everything I have seen about plants and fishless cycling downplays any role the plants might have in removing the ammonia. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 10:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] snails- oh my! Steve, All that I've read says that aquatic plants get more nutrition from ammonia/ammonium rather than nitrate like their terrestrial counterparts. I just did a quick Google and here's a well-referenced article by Diana Walstad that confirms this in the first and second paragraphs and goes into more detail in the rest of the article. http://www.aquabotanic.com/plants_and_biological_filtration.htm <http://www.aquabotanic.com/plants_and_biological_filtration.htm> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 6:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] snails- oh my! That statement is not true. While plants do need nitrogen, they will get the majority of it from nitrates, and not ammonia or nitrites. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 6:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] snails- oh my! Gosh - that puzzles me. So, in a heavily planted tank you may starve your nitrifying bacteria? And then if you have a bunch of fry come along, will the bacteria come back? Do you even need a biowheel in a heavily planted tank? Barbara In a message dated 8/8/2008 10:35:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Are you "fishless cycling" using the plain ammonia method? It's not usually a good idea to do this with plants in the tank as the plants will suck up some or all of the ammonia which will slow down or completely starve off (if enough plants) the nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia that they also need to survive. Of course, if you have enough plants in a tank and you don't overstock the tank with fish, it will technically not need to be cycled since the plants will utilize any ammonia put out by the fish so you would not experience the ammonia/nitrite spike that happens when cycling without plants. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080811-0, 08/11/2008 Tested on: 8/12/2008 9:19:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080812-0, 08/12/2008 Tested on: 8/12/2008 8:28:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080812-0, 08/12/2008 Tested on: 8/12/2008 8:38:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29170	From: vivian bradish	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: Question about Gourami's

I have been looking at dwarf or powder blue Gouramis. I do not want them for breeding, I just think they are pretty. Is it ok to put two males togehter or will they become aggressive towards each other. Do not want a male and female combo.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29171	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Gourami's

In my experience with Gouramis, I have had two males as tank mates with no problem. They seem to become aggressive toward each other only when a female is present and they are competing for her. Grey ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: viv32117@... Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:30:15 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Gourami's I have been looking at dwarf or powder blue Gouramis. I do not want them for breeding, I just think they are pretty. Is it ok to put two males togehter or will they become aggressive towards each other. Do not want a male and female combo. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29172	From: L. Gove	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Gourami's

i haven't ever had any trouble that with that species.. I think thye would be fine together, what size tank. On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:30 AM, vivian bradish <viv32117@...> wrote: > I have been looking at dwarf or powder blue Gouramis. I do not want > them for breeding, I just think they are pretty. Is it ok to put two > males togehter or will they become aggressive towards each other. Do > not want a male and female combo. > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29173	From: Helen	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: WANTED: TANK STAND

I have a tank someone gave me as I'm trying to keep my saltwater tank even, but it's an octagonle tank, so it's too deep, so I'm trying to find an affordable or FREE stand, need a wooden stand to hide all the equipment, so if anyone has an old one still in very strong, solid condition,, I would truly appreciate it.. I live in Southern Mass, the size I';m looking for is 36 X 18 1/4 Thank You Helen

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29174	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: TANK STAND

Make sure you post on and search your local FreeCycle.org group and Craigslist.org site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] WANTED: TANK STAND I have a tank someone gave me as I'm trying to keep my saltwater tank even, but it's an octagonle tank, so it's too deep, so I'm trying to find an affordable or FREE stand, need a wooden stand to hide all the equipment, so if anyone has an old one still in very strong, solid condition,, I would truly appreciate it.. I live in Southern Mass, the size I';m looking for is 36 X 18 1/4 Thank You Helen ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080813-0, 08/13/2008 Tested on: 8/13/2008 1:47:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080813-0, 08/13/2008 Tested on: 8/13/2008 1:48:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29175	From: Paula Brown	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: Cory's Cross-Breeding?

In my planted 29 gallon I have two rather large Juli Cory Cats and one rather large unknown name (it has a thick black strip down the body along with some small black patches but definitely not a Juli) Cory Cat. About a week ago I noticed two small (about 1/4 inch) cory cat's swimming around the bottom of the tank, mostly hiding under the rock or in the clay pots. I did not buy these two small cory's! They look like Emerald Green Cory Cats. I am totally confused! I have not added anything to this tank for at least two or three months. And when I did buy fish at that time, it was Bumblebees - there is no way that these cory's could have come with them. And I have not bought plants in at least four months. Could these be a mix of Juli and whatever the other kind of cory that I have? Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29176	From: wildyandangel	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: INTRODUCTOIN

HI im new to this group, are there any on here, in uk please, regards wildy n angel

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29177	From: pam andress	Date: 8/13/2008
Subject: Re: Cory's Cross-Breeding?

Most likely your cories had some fun and you now have the result of it. At 1/4 inch, many look alike, so you will have to wait and see what they look like when they are bigger. Pam To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom: paulabrown4480@...: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:22:55 -0400Subject: [AquaticLife] Cory's Cross-Breeding? In my planted 29 gallon I have two rather large Juli Cory Cats and one rather large unknown name (it has a thick black strip down the body along with some small black patches but definitely not a Juli) Cory Cat. About a week ago I noticed two small (about 1/4 inch) cory cat's swimming around the bottom of the tank, mostly hiding under the rock or in the clay pots. I did not buy these two small cory's! They look like Emerald Green Cory Cats. I am totally confused! I have not added anything to this tank for at least two or three months. And when I did buy fish at that time, it was Bumblebees - there is no way that these cory's could have come with them. And I have not bought plants in at least four months.Could these be a mix of Juli and whatever the other kind of cory that I have? Paula in Monroe, Michigan[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29178	From: vivian bradish	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Gravel Cleaning?

My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a 70 gallon tank)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29179	From: Helen	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: TANK STAND

that was the first place I tried,,, but thanx for the help --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Make sure you post on and search your local FreeCycle.org group and > Craigslist.org site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Helen > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] WANTED: TANK STAND > > I have a tank someone gave me as I'm trying to keep my saltwater tank even, > but it's an octagonle tank, so it's too deep, so I'm trying to find an > affordable or FREE stand, need a wooden stand to hide all the equipment, so > if anyone has an old one still in very strong, solid condition,, I would > truly appreciate it.. I live in Southern Mass, the size I';m looking for is > 36 X 18 1/4 Thank You Helen > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080813-0, 08/13/2008 > Tested on: 8/13/2008 1:47:26 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080813-0, 08/13/2008 > Tested on: 8/13/2008 1:48:22 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29180	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?

You should be vacuuming your gravel with each PWC (25% partial water change). The good bacteria that grows in your gravel is microscopic and attaches to the surface areas of the gravel so everything else down there is fish waste, uneaten food, etc... generally called detritus. For the most part, the only thing that will be growing in detritus is bad bacteria, other pathogens, etc., so it's best to keep your gravel as clean as possible using your gravel vacuum when you do your PWC's. For people with heavily planted tanks, some detritus is OK as it will break down and be utilized by the plants as food but for non-planted tanks or lightly planted tanks, it's better for the overall ecology to remove as much detritus as possible using the gravel vacuum. I vacuum my gravel weekly with my PWC's. I think I've already mentioned it to you but I have a long article on Filter Maintenance & Cleaning on my blog and I also have a Filter Profile on a Penguin Bio-Wheel 200 showing how I break it down for cleaning and filter maintenance and also how I modified the filter cartridge to remove the carbon (which isn't any good after a couple of weeks anyhow) and added more filter pad for better mechanical and biological filtration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel Cleaning? My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a 70 gallon tank) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/14/2008 10:42:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29181	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: TANK STAND

Next thing that might help is a low-cost tank stand that I built several years ago for my 65G 48" x 18" goldfish tank. I have the DIY instructions and photos in one of my blogs. I built this stand for $20.00. I never did add the cosmetic finish to the stand as Hurricane Katrina interrupted my plans but it can be cosmetically finished very inexpensively with something as simple as a table cloth or other material covering the front/sides or for another $20.00 with a nice piece of real wood paneling/veneer. I have plenty of room under the stand for my canister filter, UPS (uninterruptible power supply), supplies, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 8:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: WANTED: TANK STAND that was the first place I tried,,, but thanx for the help --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Make sure you post on and search your local FreeCycle.org group and > Craigslist.org site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Helen > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] WANTED: TANK STAND > > I have a tank someone gave me as I'm trying to keep my saltwater tank even, > but it's an octagonle tank, so it's too deep, so I'm trying to find an > affordable or FREE stand, need a wooden stand to hide all the equipment, so > if anyone has an old one still in very strong, solid condition,, I would > truly appreciate it.. I live in Southern Mass, the size I';m looking for is > 36 X 18 1/4 Thank You Helen > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/14/2008 10:46:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29182	From: Mark Hough	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?

You should definitely use a gravel cleaner... On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:06 AM, vivian bradish <viv32117@...> wrote: > My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the > other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the > gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the > gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. > Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been > running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. > (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a > 70 gallon tank) > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29183	From: moaaz amouri	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: hello turtel ID

thes messaege for HenneyAlan this turtel is the red ear turtel thank you [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29184	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: How many fish do yall put in a

5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29185	From: harry perry	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish/5 gal.

Unless your starting a species tank. One pair for breeding etc. The small tanks will cost you more in the long run. They go downhill quick and you'll lose your investment. A 20 gallon is easier to keep stabilized and houses many more fish. Harry --- On Thu, 8/14/08, texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@...> wrote: From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 7:07 PM 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29186	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish/5 gal.

I've had a 5 gal in my kitchen for 3 years and its not much more maint than my 2 55s 20 and 10. Its just pesonal expierence Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:19:00 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish/5 gal. Unless your starting a species tank. One pair for breeding etc. The small tanks will cost you more in the long run. They go downhill quick and you'll lose your investment. A 20 gallon is easier to keep stabilized and houses many more fish. Harry --- On Thu, 8/14/08, texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@...> wrote: From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 7:07 PM 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29187	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

The rule I usualy go by is one inch of fish per gallon. But you have to look at the fishes maximum size. I'd put like 3 guppies or 3 or 4 ember tetras. Just a few small fish. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@...> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:07:27 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29188	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand

I thought i had 2 wash them by hand....... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hough" <mhough6229@...> wrote: > > You should definitely use a gravel cleaner... > > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:06 AM, vivian bradish <viv32117@...> wrote: > > > My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the > > other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the > > gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the > > gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. > > Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been > > running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. > > (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a > > 70 gallon tank) > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 > > Mark Hough > > I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if > there really is a doG. > I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29189	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand

I would most deffinately begin your gravel vacing. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@...> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:56:58 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand I thought i had 2 wash them by hand....... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hough" <mhough6229@...> wrote: > > You should definitely use a gravel cleaner... > > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:06 AM, vivian bradish <viv32117@...> wrote: > > > My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the > > other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the > > gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the > > gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. > > Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been > > running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. > > (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a > > 70 gallon tank) > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 > > Mark Hough > > I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if > there really is a doG. > I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29190	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@...> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29191	From: kolkri@gmail.com	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

One a betta.   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: texas_tears2000 Date: 08/14/08 18:10:53 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29192	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

Depends on the fish but not many. No more than five 1" fish like neon tetras, galaxy raspboras, etc., as long as the tank is filtered. On my blog, I have a 10G tank stocking suggestions list so you could browse over some of those fish to get an idea but some of them would get too big for a 5G tank so you would have to choose the smallest of the species and then only stock 1/2 of what the 10G suggestions might be... or you could put one Betta Splendens and maybe a Mystery Snail. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 gallon aquarium? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/14/2008 8:50:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29193	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: Home Page Fish

I don't think we know yet. Someone else asked about it in the group a few weeks ago and I don't think we ever got a good answer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wildyspage3girl@... Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com Subject: (no subject) hi can you please tell me the name of fish shown on home page of this site, thank you wildy n angel _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/14/2008 9:26:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29194	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?

As has been mentioned already, do clean your gravel. I'd suggest that you do about 25% of your gravel bed each water change. Will you suck up some of the bacteria that participate in the cycle? Undoubtedly you will. Will it be enough to throw your cycle off? Probably not. The remaining bacteria, either from the area you cleaned, or from a neighboring area will quickly populate the unused space. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 8:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel Cleaning? My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a 70 gallon tank)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29195	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/14/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29196	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

Wow! I would not recomend doing that at all! It may be ok for a little while but it always catches up with you. Try to think of it this way: how would you feel if you were crammed into a room made for 5 people and there was 10 adults and 20 kids? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:40 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~�Heather�~ <lilredhd1@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29197	From: wildyandangel	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: WANTED

CHALLLENGE, can anyone name the fish on the home page of this site, ( AquaticLife ) is it a fresh water chichlid ? or marine fish ? of some kind.come on you knowledgable guys.lets share the secrets. best regards. wildy n angel

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29198	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED

Someone (Snert) has already identified it back on July 2nd as a species of marine Fairy Wrasse, although it was not know exactly what species. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "wildyandangel" <Wildyspage3girl@...> wrote: > > CHALLLENGE, can anyone name the fish on the home page of this site, > ( AquaticLife ) is it a fresh water chichlid ? or marine fish ? of > some kind.come on you knowledgable guys.lets share the secrets. best > regards. wildy n angel >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29199	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED

Despite appearing like a cichlid, it is not a Cichlid. Many people attempted to identify it not long ago. I don't think it was determined. -Mike In a message dated 8/15/2008 3:44:15 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Wildyspage3girl@... writes: CHALLLENGE, can anyone name the fish on the home page of this site, ( AquaticLife ) is it a fresh water chichlid ? or marine fish ? of some kind.come on you knowledgable guys.lets share the secrets. best regards. wildy n angel **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29200	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

Yall of them! <g>. Sorry 'bout that, couldn't resist. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@...> wrote: > > 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? > > > > > > http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29201	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

Yeah, I figured I'd get flamed for it and I certainly wouldn't suggest it to anyone else but you'd be surprised how many fish you don't see in there. You'd probably think I have maybe 4 shrimp and 3 fish. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: "allie1068@..." <allie1068@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 4:46:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Wow! I would not recomend doing that at all! It may be ok for a little while but it always catches up with you. Try to think of it this way: how would you feel if you were crammed into a room made for 5 people and there was 10 adults and 20 kids? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@yahoo. com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:40 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29202	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

Kate, I don't think Allie's reply was a flame... nor is this reply. I was tempted to reply also but only for the reason of letting others know that while it may work for you, it's not something that should be recommended or bragged about. There are a couple of thousand members out here and the messages are public so there could be tens of thousands of others who might read a message. If they see you saying how you keep that heavy bioload in a 5G tank, they'll think they can do it also and the results would be disastrous for most other people. Even though you have a heavily planted tank which might help with increasing the O2 levels and removing the nitrogenous wastes, etc., it doesn't deal with the hormone levels put out by the fish so they will inevitably be stunted to some degree and the stress levels will be elevated due to the hormonal levels. When fish get stressed, their immune systems falter which can then cause health issues to become a problem. You stated that all of the fish are small (I'm guessing you mean young) but that is when they need the most space so they do not get stunted. Once a fish is full grown, it cannot technically be stunted so giving them proper water volumes while they are growing is actually more important for fry/juvi's than it is for full grown fish where stunting is concerned. Giving adults proper water volume will lower the stress levels leading to healthier fish. Of course, running advanced chemical filtration to help with the hormones and doing frequent PWC's, which will help dilute the hormones, will help the overall ecology so adding your maintenance schedule when you talk about your overstocked tank will further make sure that someone reading about your tank will be armed with that much needed info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 8:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Yeah, I figured I'd get flamed for it and I certainly wouldn't suggest it to anyone else but you'd be surprised how many fish you don't see in there. You'd probably think I have maybe 4 shrimp and 3 fish. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: "allie1068@... <mailto:allie1068%40yahoo.com> " <allie1068@... <mailto:allie1068%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 4:46:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Wow! I would not recomend doing that at all! It may be ok for a little while but it always catches up with you. Try to think of it this way: how would you feel if you were crammed into a room made for 5 people and there was 10 adults and 20 kids? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@yahoo. com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:40 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 10:01:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29203	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

I wasn't meaning that at all. I was in a rush to work and didn't think to explain myself. Thank you lenny that was exactly what I was meaning! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:01:07 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Kate, I don't think Allie's reply was a flame... nor is this reply. I was tempted to reply also but only for the reason of letting others know that while it may work for you, it's not something that should be recommended or bragged about. There are a couple of thousand members out here and the messages are public so there could be tens of thousands of others who might read a message. If they see you saying how you keep that heavy bioload in a 5G tank, they'll think they can do it also and the results would be disastrous for most other people. Even though you have a heavily planted tank which might help with increasing the O2 levels and removing the nitrogenous wastes, etc., it doesn't deal with the hormone levels put out by the fish so they will inevitably be stunted to some degree and the stress levels will be elevated due to the hormonal levels. When fish get stressed, their immune systems falter which can then cause health issues to become a problem. You stated that all of the fish are small (I'm guessing you mean young) but that is when they need the most space so they do not get stunted. Once a fish is full grown, it cannot technically be stunted so giving them proper water volumes while they are growing is actually more important for fry/juvi's than it is for full grown fish where stunting is concerned. Giving adults proper water volume will lower the stress levels leading to healthier fish. Of course, running advanced chemical filtration to help with the hormones and doing frequent PWC's, which will help dilute the hormones, will help the overall ecology so adding your maintenance schedule when you talk about your overstocked tank will further make sure that someone reading about your tank will be armed with that much needed info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 8:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Yeah, I figured I'd get flamed for it and I certainly wouldn't suggest it to anyone else but you'd be surprised how many fish you don't see in there. You'd probably think I have maybe 4 shrimp and 3 fish. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: "allie1068@... <mailto:allie1068%40yahoo.com> " <allie1068@... <mailto:allie1068%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 4:46:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Wow! I would not recomend doing that at all! It may be ok for a little while but it always catches up with you. Try to think of it this way: how would you feel if you were crammed into a room made for 5 people and there was 10 adults and 20 kids? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@yahoo. com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:40 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~�Heather�~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 10:01:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29204	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

And I agree 100% with lenny. Just because you can't see the fish doesn't mean they're aren't any chemical issues or that they are living to their full potential. Fish are funny they could act fine but you would never be aware of something serious that could be going on inside Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 06:44:28 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Yeah, I figured I'd get flamed for it and I certainly wouldn't suggest it to anyone else but you'd be surprised how many fish you don't see in there. You'd probably think I have maybe 4 shrimp and 3 fish. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: "allie1068@..." <allie1068@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 4:46:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Wow! I would not recomend doing that at all! It may be ok for a little while but it always catches up with you. Try to think of it this way: how would you feel if you were crammed into a room made for 5 people and there was 10 adults and 20 kids? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@yahoo. com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:40 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~�Heather�~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29205	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

I apologize I didn't mean to say that Allie was flaming I just figured I would be. I really should be more specific. You are right Lenny, granted I didn't need all the info, as I do read your posts and blog, it is valuable for anyone who might have misunderstood my original post. No, I don't mean young fish I'm talking about Brigittae and Crystal Black Shrimp which are both tiny. It was very irresponsible of me not to be more specific about this and my maintenance schedule. This tank as I said is very heavily planted and gets 3 20% water changes per week. I have to do this with EI. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 9:01:07 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Kate, I don't think Allie's reply was a flame... nor is this reply. I was tempted to reply also but only for the reason of letting others know that while it may work for you, it's not something that should be recommended or bragged about. There are a couple of thousand members out here and the messages are public so there could be tens of thousands of others who might read a message. If they see you saying how you keep that heavy bioload in a 5G tank, they'll think they can do it also and the results would be disastrous for most other people. Even though you have a heavily planted tank which might help with increasing the O2 levels and removing the nitrogenous wastes, etc., it doesn't deal with the hormone levels put out by the fish so they will inevitably be stunted to some degree and the stress levels will be elevated due to the hormonal levels. When fish get stressed, their immune systems falter which can then cause health issues to become a problem. You stated that all of the fish are small (I'm guessing you mean young) but that is when they need the most space so they do not get stunted. Once a fish is full grown, it cannot technically be stunted so giving them proper water volumes while they are growing is actually more important for fry/juvi's than it is for full grown fish where stunting is concerned. Giving adults proper water volume will lower the stress levels leading to healthier fish. Of course, running advanced chemical filtration to help with the hormones and doing frequent PWC's, which will help dilute the hormones, will help the overall ecology so adding your maintenance schedule when you talk about your overstocked tank will further make sure that someone reading about your tank will be armed with that much needed info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 8:44 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Yeah, I figured I'd get flamed for it and I certainly wouldn't suggest it to anyone else but you'd be surprised how many fish you don't see in there. You'd probably think I have maybe 4 shrimp and 3 fish. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: "allie1068@yahoo. com <mailto:allie1068% 40yahoo.com> " <allie1068@yahoo. com <mailto:allie1068% 40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 4:46:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Wow! I would not recomend doing that at all! It may be ok for a little while but it always catches up with you. Try to think of it this way: how would you feel if you were crammed into a room made for 5 people and there was 10 adults and 20 kids? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@yahoo. com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:40 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 10:01:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29206	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

No problem Allie. I should have explained better. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: "allie1068@..." <allie1068@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 11:12:55 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a I wasn't meaning that at all. I was in a rush to work and didn't think to explain myself. Thank you lenny that was exactly what I was meaning! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:01:07 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Kate, I don't think Allie's reply was a flame... nor is this reply. I was tempted to reply also but only for the reason of letting others know that while it may work for you, it's not something that should be recommended or bragged about. There are a couple of thousand members out here and the messages are public so there could be tens of thousands of others who might read a message. If they see you saying how you keep that heavy bioload in a 5G tank, they'll think they can do it also and the results would be disastrous for most other people. Even though you have a heavily planted tank which might help with increasing the O2 levels and removing the nitrogenous wastes, etc., it doesn't deal with the hormone levels put out by the fish so they will inevitably be stunted to some degree and the stress levels will be elevated due to the hormonal levels. When fish get stressed, their immune systems falter which can then cause health issues to become a problem. You stated that all of the fish are small (I'm guessing you mean young) but that is when they need the most space so they do not get stunted. Once a fish is full grown, it cannot technically be stunted so giving them proper water volumes while they are growing is actually more important for fry/juvi's than it is for full grown fish where stunting is concerned. Giving adults proper water volume will lower the stress levels leading to healthier fish. Of course, running advanced chemical filtration to help with the hormones and doing frequent PWC's, which will help dilute the hormones, will help the overall ecology so adding your maintenance schedule when you talk about your overstocked tank will further make sure that someone reading about your tank will be armed with that much needed info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Kate Conrow Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 8:44 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Yeah, I figured I'd get flamed for it and I certainly wouldn't suggest it to anyone else but you'd be surprised how many fish you don't see in there. You'd probably think I have maybe 4 shrimp and 3 fish. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: "allie1068@yahoo. com <mailto:allie1068% 40yahoo.com> " <allie1068@yahoo. com <mailto:allie1068% 40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 4:46:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Wow! I would not recomend doing that at all! It may be ok for a little while but it always catches up with you. Try to think of it this way: how would you feel if you were crammed into a room made for 5 people and there was 10 adults and 20 kids? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@yahoo. com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:40 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 10:01:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29207	From: Rich	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re :How many fish do yall put in a

In my 5 gallon I currently have 1 male betta and 2 Otos and they're thriving. A dwarf puffer would also work very well in this size tank. Both bettas and dwarf puffers are just fine as the only fish in the tank too; which addresses the biggest problem of this size tank. You could fit a few Neons or Rasboras or similar small peaceful schooling fish but not enough to actually see them school. I read many diverging opinions on how many Otos should be in a tank, but my two are very active and social with each other. I originally lost one, and the remaining fish became very inactive until I replaced the lost one, and then he sprang back to full activity. It's possible that a betta could nip at the Oto but given Otos aren't flashy and aren't large finned fish it's not a huge possibility. Dwarf puffers also commonly find Otos agreeable tankmates though there's a greater chance of an issue. Both bettas and dwarf puffers have very engaging personalities and are intelligent fish; both like complex enviornments to explore and both will zoom right up to you for attention whenever you approach. Dwarf puffers can be hard to find; bettas are everywhere in those horrid little cups. Rich > > 5 to 6 galloon aquarium?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29208	From: Anndrea	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Oscar foods?

Hi, I have two oscars, don't know their ages, but one was got from Petsmart about 2 weeks ago, and is smaller than the one we already had (which was given to us by Walmart when some lady's tank broke and she had nowhere to put it so dropped it off in the fish section of Walmart). Like I said, no idea on ages, but one is smaller and I'm sure younger. The little one acts like it is STARVING all the time. I had been feeding goldfish until I learned better...they were getting them twice a day. We have stopped goldfish and switched to nightcrawlers and mealworms, along with cichlid pellet food. My questions are...how much should they be eating in a feeding (I feed twice a day)? What else can I get them to eat, since some meals are just pellets (I heard it isn't good to feed them nightcrawlers or mealworms EVERY meal)? Can they have any people foods? Like bread, hamburger, chicken, broccoli, etc...(and on that subject, should any meat they can have be cooked or raw?). Lastly, the smaller oscar eats so aggressively that he gets the majority of the food I put in there...to the point that he chokes on it (well, I think he's choking...he had a goldfish hanging out of his mouth and looked like he was having a hard time for about 10 minutes...and did the same thing with half a nightcrawler). I am worried the bigger oscar is not getting enough to eat, and I am worried the smaller oscar will choke to death if he keeps going at the rate he is...I have tried feeding at different places in the tank at the same time, but the bigger oscar is cautious of everything, and the smaller one races around eating everything. Not sure how to stop that, or if I even should...I would just put more food in, but I don't want to overfeed either. You guys have been such a big help before, I am really hoping you can help me out with this stuff... Oh, and I am not sure, but it is possible the smaller one has hole in the head. But the spots aren't as deep to call them a "hole" like in all the pictures I have seen and the fish I have seen with it (very few). Maybe it is just starting? I would notice right away as I watch these fish ALL THE TIME when I'm awake :-) Thanks :-) anndrea

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29209	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

I have 15 small tetras (black phantom, flame, and xray) and 8 zebra danios in a 25 gallon aquarium, and the fish seem to be doing well. I upgraded from a 10 gallon two weeks ago and the numbers have just reached normal. Gravel might be accumulating debris rather quickly. I have it running on two 10-20 gallon Penguin filters and an air pump with one of those long air stones. But then, I like to do frequent water changes, and I like to atleast suction out the food and fish poop each day - which means a 10% water change. When it was a 10 gallon aquarium that meant a 25% water change. If I didn't want to do frequent water changes I think 20 is the maximum of those fish for that tank, and maybe 15. I like to see actual fish swimming around. ;) The larger the aquarium, the easier it is to keep it clean and control the biological waste levels. A five or six gallon is going to be disproportionately harder, and you're necessarily going to remove most of the water each time you clean it. Make sure the water you put back is a match for the water you took out in ph and temperature - even if it's the same tap water the ph may change in the aquarium. For instance, my high alkaline water turns sharply less basic when air bubbles through it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <allie1068@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Wow! I would not recomend doing that at all! It may be ok for a little while but it always catches up with you. Try to think of it this way: how would you feel if you were crammed into a room made for 5 people and there was 10 adults and 20 kids? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:40 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~Heather~ <lilredhd1@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29210	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

That's a 20 gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a I have 15 small tetras (black phantom, flame, and xray) and 8 zebra danios in a 25 gallon aquarium, and the fish seem to be doing well. I upgraded from a 10 gallon two weeks ago and the numbers have just reached normal. Gravel might be accumulating debris rather quickly. I have it running on two 10-20 gallon Penguin filters and an air pump with one of those long air stones. But then, I like to do frequent water changes, and I like to atleast suction out the food and fish poop each day - which means a 10% water change. When it was a 10 gallon aquarium that meant a 25% water change. If I didn't want to do frequent water changes I think 20 is the maximum of those fish for that tank, and maybe 15. I like to see actual fish swimming around. ;) The larger the aquarium, the easier it is to keep it clean and control the biological waste levels. A five or six gallon is going to be disproportionately harder, and you're necessarily going to remove most of the water each time you clean it. Make sure the water you put back is a match for the water you took out in ph and temperature - even if it's the same tap water the ph may change in the aquarium. For instance, my high alkaline water turns sharply less basic when air bubbles through it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <allie1068@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Wow! I would not recomend doing that at all! It may be ok for a little while but it always catches up with you. Try to think of it this way: how would you feel if you were crammed into a room made for 5 people and there was 10 adults and 20 kids? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@...> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:40 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~Heather~ <lilredhd1@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29211	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand

A gravel cleaner can mean several things. It can mean a common siphon, which is the same thing as hand cleaning, and in my experience does a better job than the next option, which is a battery operated vacuum that pulls the water through a strainer and back into the aquarium. Then there are several hundred dollar electric aquarium vacuum cleaners. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 5:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand I thought i had 2 wash them by hand....... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hough" <mhough6229@...> wrote: > > You should definitely use a gravel cleaner... > > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:06 AM, vivian bradish <viv32117@...> wrote: > > > My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the > > other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the > > gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the > > gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. > > Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been > > running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. > > (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a > > 70 gallon tank) > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 > > Mark Hough > > I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if > there really is a doG. > I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: Oscar foods?

Here's a few good profiles/care sheets on Oscars. Smaller, juvi fish should be fed more often... several times a day or more since they have much higher metabolisms and need plenty of smaller meals. The profiles/care sheets will give you a lot more ideas on food choices. I hope you have a REALLY BIG tank for two oscars... 150G+. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/oscar.htm http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/oscar_cichlid.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anndrea Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 1:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oscar foods? Hi, I have two oscars, don't know their ages, but one was got from Petsmart about 2 weeks ago, and is smaller than the one we already had (which was given to us by Walmart when some lady's tank broke and she had nowhere to put it so dropped it off in the fish section of Walmart). Like I said, no idea on ages, but one is smaller and I'm sure younger. The little one acts like it is STARVING all the time. I had been feeding goldfish until I learned better...they were getting them twice a day. We have stopped goldfish and switched to nightcrawlers and mealworms, along with cichlid pellet food. My questions are...how much should they be eating in a feeding (I feed twice a day)? What else can I get them to eat, since some meals are just pellets (I heard it isn't good to feed them nightcrawlers or mealworms EVERY meal)? Can they have any people foods? Like bread, hamburger, chicken, broccoli, etc...(and on that subject, should any meat they can have be cooked or raw?). Lastly, the smaller oscar eats so aggressively that he gets the majority of the food I put in there...to the point that he chokes on it (well, I think he's choking...he had a goldfish hanging out of his mouth and looked like he was having a hard time for about 10 minutes...and did the same thing with half a nightcrawler). I am worried the bigger oscar is not getting enough to eat, and I am worried the smaller oscar will choke to death if he keeps going at the rate he is...I have tried feeding at different places in the tank at the same time, but the bigger oscar is cautious of everything, and the smaller one races around eating everything. Not sure how to stop that, or if I even should...I would just put more food in, but I don't want to overfeed either. You guys have been such a big help before, I am really hoping you can help me out with this stuff... Oh, and I am not sure, but it is possible the smaller one has hole in the head. But the spots aren't as deep to call them a "hole" like in all the pictures I have seen and the fish I have seen with it (very few). Maybe it is just starting? I would notice right away as I watch these fish ALL THE TIME when I'm awake :-) Thanks :-) anndrea _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080815-0, 08/15/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 1:31:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29213	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!

My 2" goldfish was sucked up into a Penguin 400 when the strainer was knocked off. He was caught in the brace above the impeller. He must of been there for about 8 hours (fed him in the morning was ok and when I got home from work he was gone and filter wasnt turning..hmm. He is alive but is elongated in the face as he looks like an anteater. His right eye is also bulged out and cloudy, hes missing a alot of scales and from the gills to his mouth he is pale in some places and bloodshot. He is in the hospital tank with a bubbler filter and I put in a tablespoon of aquarium salt and some stress coat. What else should I do to make him feel better????

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29214	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!

I would put in some melafix. Its got aloe vera in it. That's what I use to help heal wounds Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 23:01:08 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! My 2" goldfish was sucked up into a Penguin 400 when the strainer was knocked off. He was caught in the brace above the impeller. He must of been there for about 8 hours (fed him in the morning was ok and when I got home from work he was gone and filter wasnt turning..hmm. He is alive but is elongated in the face as he looks like an anteater. His right eye is also bulged out and cloudy, hes missing a alot of scales and from the gills to his mouth he is pale in some places and bloodshot. He is in the hospital tank with a bubbler filter and I put in a tablespoon of aquarium salt and some stress coat. What else should I do to make him feel better???? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29215	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!

Poor guy. You're going to have to be more careful what movies you show him! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <allie1068@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! I would put in some melafix. Its got aloe vera in it. That's what I use to help heal wounds Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 23:01:08 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! My 2" goldfish was sucked up into a Penguin 400 when the strainer was knocked off. He was caught in the brace above the impeller. He must of been there for about 8 hours (fed him in the morning was ok and when I got home from work he was gone and filter wasnt turning..hmm. He is alive but is elongated in the face as he looks like an anteater. His right eye is also bulged out and cloudy, hes missing a alot of scales and from the gills to his mouth he is pale in some places and bloodshot. He is in the hospital tank with a bubbler filter and I put in a tablespoon of aquarium salt and some stress coat. What else should I do to make him feel better???? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29216	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!

You have done the right thing. Now, just watch his recovery. You may need to treat for developing fungus, or something else, as the time goes by, but don't stock up on any medication until there is a problem and it has been properly identified. I am hopeful for recovery, but I also would not be surprised if you lost the fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! My 2" goldfish was sucked up into a Penguin 400 when the strainer was knocked off. He was caught in the brace above the impeller. He must of been there for about 8 hours (fed him in the morning was ok and when I got home from work he was gone and filter wasnt turning..hmm. He is alive but is elongated in the face as he looks like an anteater. His right eye is also bulged out and cloudy, hes missing a alot of scales and from the gills to his mouth he is pale in some places and bloodshot. He is in the hospital tank with a bubbler filter and I put in a tablespoon of aquarium salt and some stress coat. What else should I do to make him feel better????

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29217	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

I had a panted 5 gallon many years ago. I had two dwarf gouramis (before the variations came out to try and outshine the real thing, and you could actually easily by pairs back then), Two Otocinclus, and 4 or 5 zebra fish (before there was ever a long finned variety). The filtration was provided by a bubble-up and the heater was a 25 watt heater--the smallest available at the time. I can see Lenny cringing now. The tank was kept for several years with no problems, and no real maintenance other than water changes and filter cleanings. Now, Lenny can have a heart attack, since this was also a travel tank. It traveled with me back and forth from the east coast to Illinois, where it was kept in a dorm room. I am not suggesting this for you, but just mention it to show what can be done with great care and good tank maintenance. I should also mention that this was about the time the nitrogen cycle and its importance in the aquarium was just being discovered. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29218	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!

I was also going to suggest Melafix but it doesn't have Aloe in it.. it's an extract from the Melaleuca tree... I think other natural remedies call it Tea tree oil... but in either case, I'd add Melafix along with the salt and make sure to increase aeration to the tank when using most meds. AND... make sure you reattach the strainer and shove it on all the way so it doesn't come loose again. If the "bubbler filter" wasn't running in one of your main tanks, you'll have to add some filter media from one of your running tanks so the filter is cycled on the hospital tank and still test the water daily to make sure it's cycling properly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! I would put in some melafix. Its got aloe vera in it. That's what I use to help heal wounds Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@... <mailto:turbocoupe76%40yahoo.com> > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 23:01:08 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! My 2" goldfish was sucked up into a Penguin 400 when the strainer was knocked off. He was caught in the brace above the impeller. He must of been there for about 8 hours (fed him in the morning was ok and when I got home from work he was gone and filter wasnt turning..hmm. He is alive but is elongated in the face as he looks like an anteater. His right eye is also bulged out and cloudy, hes missing a alot of scales and from the gills to his mouth he is pale in some places and bloodshot. He is in the hospital tank with a bubbler filter and I put in a tablespoon of aquarium salt and some stress coat. What else should I do to make him feel better???? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080815-0, 08/15/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 9:03:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29219	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

Steve, Back in the old days, lots of things weren't done properly in fish keeping and hopefully we learn from our mistakes. Like you said, you were just learning about the nitrogen cycle in aquaria and I'm sure there was nothing being said about stunting being caused by overstocking, hormone levels, etc. Heck... back then, you could even tell the Misses to do the chores and if she objected, you could pull out your club and give her a whack and then drag her by the hair across the cave floor. LOL Or as Archie Bunker would say... "...Those were the days!!!" ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a I had a panted 5 gallon many years ago. I had two dwarf gouramis (before the variations came out to try and outshine the real thing, and you could actually easily by pairs back then), Two Otocinclus, and 4 or 5 zebra fish (before there was ever a long finned variety). The filtration was provided by a bubble-up and the heater was a 25 watt heater--the smallest available at the time. I can see Lenny cringing now. The tank was kept for several years with no problems, and no real maintenance other than water changes and filter cleanings. Now, Lenny can have a heart attack, since this was also a travel tank. It traveled with me back and forth from the east coast to Illinois, where it was kept in a dorm room. I am not suggesting this for you, but just mention it to show what can be done with great care and good tank maintenance. I should also mention that this was about the time the nitrogen cycle and its importance in the aquarium was just being discovered. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080815-0, 08/15/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 9:11:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29220	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

I think he's clenching his chest! I used mine for a long time to put my nickle size angels in so it had low current and they thrived. When they got bigger they went to the 10 til they got a little bigger than the 20 then the 55! I kept them with a green cory and 2 otos. But it wasn't for very long periods. Just so they weren't stressed with the current of the big tank. Now I got 3 rasborahs and the same 2 otos! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:49:46 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a I had a panted 5 gallon many years ago. I had two dwarf gouramis (before the variations came out to try and outshine the real thing, and you could actually easily by pairs back then), Two Otocinclus, and 4 or 5 zebra fish (before there was ever a long finned variety). The filtration was provided by a bubble-up and the heater was a 25 watt heater--the smallest available at the time. I can see Lenny cringing now. The tank was kept for several years with no problems, and no real maintenance other than water changes and filter cleanings. Now, Lenny can have a heart attack, since this was also a travel tank. It traveled with me back and forth from the east coast to Illinois, where it was kept in a dorm room. I am not suggesting this for you, but just mention it to show what can be done with great care and good tank maintenance. I should also mention that this was about the time the nitrogen cycle and its importance in the aquarium was just being discovered. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29221	From: Texas_Tears2000	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: how many fish do u put in a 5 galloon tank ?

1 tank i have : 16 teen 4 galloon i have 8 http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish   A great way to share experience & ask ?s Messages In This Digest (23 Messages) 1a. Gravel Cleaning? From: vivian bradish 1b. Re: Gravel Cleaning? From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny 1c. Re: Gravel Cleaning? From: Mark Hough 1d. Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand From: texas_tears2000 1e. Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand From: allie1068@... 1f. Re: Gravel Cleaning? From: Steve Szabo 2a. Re: WANTED:  TANK STAND From: Helen 2b. Re: WANTED:  TANK STAND From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny 3. hello turtel ID From: moaaz amouri 4a. How many fish do yall put  in a From: texas_tears2000 4b. Re: How many fish/5 gal. From: harry perry 4c. Re: How many fish/5 gal. From: allie1068@... 4d. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a From: allie1068@... 4e. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a From: ~¤Heather¤~ 4f. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a From: kolkri@... 4g. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny 4h. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a From: Kate Conrow 4i. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a From: allie1068@... 4j. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a From: Raymond Wetzel 5. Re: Home Page Fish From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny 6a. WANTED From: wildyandangel 6b. Re: WANTED From: Raymond Wetzel 6c. Re: WANTED From: Deenerz@... View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1a. Gravel Cleaning? Posted by: "vivian bradish" viv32117@...   viv32117 Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:26 am (PDT) My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a 70 gallon tank) Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1b. Re: Gravel Cleaning? Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@...   neighborhood_home_services Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:42 am (PDT) You should be vacuuming your gravel with each PWC (25% partial water change). The good bacteria that grows in your gravel is microscopic and attaches to the surface areas of the gravel so everything else down there is fish waste, uneaten food, etc... generally called detritus. For the most part, the only thing that will be growing in detritus is bad bacteria, other pathogens, etc., so it's best to keep your gravel as clean as possible using your gravel vacuum when you do your PWC's. For people with heavily planted tanks, some detritus is OK as it will break down and be utilized by the plants as food but for non-planted tanks or lightly planted tanks, it's better for the overall ecology to remove as much detritus as possible using the gravel vacuum. I vacuum my gravel weekly with my PWC's. I think I've already mentioned it to you but I have a long article on Filter Maintenance & Cleaning on my blog and I also have a Filter Profile on a Penguin Bio-Wheel 200 showing how I break it down for cleaning and filter maintenance and also how I modified the filter cartridge to remove the carbon (which isn't any good after a couple of weeks anyhow) and added more filter pad for better mechanical and biological filtration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel Cleaning? My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a 70 gallon tank) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/14/2008 10:42:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1c. Re: Gravel Cleaning? Posted by: "Mark Hough" mhough6229@...   schmector Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:52 am (PDT) You should definitely use a gravel cleaner... On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:06 AM, vivian bradish <viv32117@yahoo. com> wrote: > My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the > other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the > gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the > gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. > Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been > running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. > (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a > 70 gallon tank) > > > -- http://www.myspace. com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1d. Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand Posted by: "texas_tears2000" texas_tears2000@...   texas_tears2000 Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:31 pm (PDT) I thought i had 2 wash them by hand....... --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Mark Hough" <mhough6229@ ...> wrote: > > You should definitely use a gravel cleaner... > > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:06 AM, vivian bradish <viv32117@.. .> wrote: > > > My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the > > other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the > > gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the > > gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. > > Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been > > running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. > > (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a > > 70 gallon tank) > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.myspace. com/mhough6229 > > Mark Hough > > I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if > there really is a doG. > I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1e. Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand Posted by: "allie1068@..." allie1068@...   allie1068 Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:47 pm (PDT) I would most deffinately begin your gravel vacing. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:56:58 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand I thought i had 2 wash them by hand....... --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Mark Hough" <mhough6229@ ...> wrote: > > You should definitely use a gravel cleaner... > > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:06 AM, vivian bradish <viv32117@.. .> wrote: > > > My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the > > other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the > > gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the > > gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. > > Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been > > running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. > > (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a > > 70 gallon tank) > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.myspace. com/mhough6229 > > Mark Hough > > I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if > there really is a doG. > I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1f. Re: Gravel Cleaning? Posted by: "Steve Szabo" steve@...   stevesza Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:35 pm (PDT) As has been mentioned already, do clean your gravel. I'd suggest that you do about 25% of your gravel bed each water change. Will you suck up some of the bacteria that participate in the cycle? Undoubtedly you will. Will it be enough to throw your cycle off? Probably not. The remaining bacteria, either from the area you cleaned, or from a neighboring area will quickly populate the unused space. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 8:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel Cleaning? My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a 70 gallon tank) Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 2a. Re: WANTED:  TANK STAND Posted by: "Helen" Helyun@...   helyun01 Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:27 am (PDT) that was the first place I tried,,, but thanx for the help --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Make sure you post on and search your local FreeCycle.org group and > Craigslist.org site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Helen > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] WANTED: TANK STAND > > I have a tank someone gave me as I'm trying to keep my saltwater tank even, > but it's an octagonle tank, so it's too deep, so I'm trying to find an > affordable or FREE stand, need a wooden stand to hide all the equipment, so > if anyone has an old one still in very strong, solid condition,, I would > truly appreciate it.. I live in Southern Mass, the size I';m looking for is > 36 X 18 1/4 Thank You Helen > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080813-0, 08/13/2008 > Tested on: 8/13/2008 1:47:26 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080813-0, 08/13/2008 > Tested on: 8/13/2008 1:48:22 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (4) 2b. Re: WANTED:  TANK STAND Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@...   neighborhood_home_services Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:47 am (PDT) Next thing that might help is a low-cost tank stand that I built several years ago for my 65G 48" x 18" goldfish tank. I have the DIY instructions and photos in one of my blogs. I built this stand for $20.00. I never did add the cosmetic finish to the stand as Hurricane Katrina interrupted my plans but it can be cosmetically finished very inexpensively with something as simple as a table cloth or other material covering the front/sides or for another $20.00 with a nice piece of real wood paneling/veneer. I have plenty of room under the stand for my canister filter, UPS (uninterruptible power supply), supplies, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Helen Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 8:33 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: WANTED: TANK STAND that was the first place I tried,,, but thanx for the help --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Make sure you post on and search your local FreeCycle.org group and > Craigslist.org site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On > Behalf Of Helen > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] WANTED: TANK STAND > > I have a tank someone gave me as I'm trying to keep my saltwater tank even, > but it's an octagonle tank, so it's too deep, so I'm trying to find an > affordable or FREE stand, need a wooden stand to hide all the equipment, so > if anyone has an old one still in very strong, solid condition,, I would > truly appreciate it.. I live in Southern Mass, the size I';m looking for is > 36 X 18 1/4 Thank You Helen > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/14/2008 10:46:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (4) 3. hello turtel ID Posted by: "moaaz amouri" moaazamouri@...   moaazamouri Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:25 am (PDT) thes messaege for HenneyAlan this turtel is the red ear turtel thank you [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 4a. How many fish do yall put  in a Posted by: "texas_tears2000" texas_tears2000@...   texas_tears2000 Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:10 pm (PDT) 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4b. Re: How many fish/5 gal. Posted by: "harry perry" harryfisherman@...   harryfisherman Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:19 pm (PDT) Unless your starting a species tank. One pair for breeding etc. The small tanks will cost you more in the long run. They go downhill quick and you'll lose your investment. A 20 gallon is easier to keep stabilized and houses many more fish. Harry --- On Thu, 8/14/08, texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 7:07 PM 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4c. Re: How many fish/5 gal. Posted by: "allie1068@..." allie1068@...   allie1068 Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:26 pm (PDT) I've had a 5 gal in my kitchen for 3 years and its not much more maint than my 2 55s 20 and 10. Its just pesonal expierence Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:19:00 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish/5 gal. Unless your starting a species tank. One pair for breeding etc. The small tanks will cost you more in the long run. They go downhill quick and you'll lose your investment. A 20 gallon is easier to keep stabilized and houses many more fish. Harry --- On Thu, 8/14/08, texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 7:07 PM 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4d. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a Posted by: "allie1068@..." allie1068@...   allie1068 Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:31 pm (PDT) The rule I usualy go by is one inch of fish per gallon. But you have to look at the fishes maximum size. I'd put like 3 guppies or 3 or 4 ember tetras.. Just a few small fish. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:07:27 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4e. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a Posted by: "~¤Heather¤~" lilredhd1@...   lilredhd1 Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:37 pm (PDT) None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4f. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a Posted by: "kolkri@..." kolkri@...   hiyatoyou Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:39 pm (PDT) One a betta.   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message----- -- From: texas_tears2000 Date: 08/14/08 18:10:53 To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4g. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@...   neighborhood_home_services Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:50 pm (PDT) Depends on the fish but not many. No more than five 1" fish like neon tetras, galaxy raspboras, etc., as long as the tank is filtered. On my blog, I have a 10G tank stocking suggestions list so you could browse over some of those fish to get an idea but some of them would get too big for a 5G tank so you would have to choose the smallest of the species and then only stock 1/2 of what the 10G suggestions might be... or you could put one Betta Splendens and maybe a Mystery Snail. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 gallon aquarium? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/14/2008 8:50:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4h. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a Posted by: "Kate Conrow" k8hardy@...   k8conrow Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:07 pm (PDT) Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4i. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a Posted by: "allie1068@..." allie1068@...   allie1068 Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:07 am (PDT) Wow! I would not recomend doing that at all! It may be ok for a little while but it always catches up with you. Try to think of it this way: how would you feel if you were crammed into a room made for 5 people and there was 10 adults and 20 kids? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@yahoo. com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:40 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4j. Re: How many fish do yall put  in a Posted by: "Raymond Wetzel" sevenspringss@...   sevenspringss Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:26 am (PDT) Yall of them! <g>. Sorry 'bout that, couldn't resist. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@ ...> wrote: > > 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? > > > > > > http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 5. Re: Home Page Fish Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@...   neighborhood_home_services Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:26 pm (PDT) I don't think we know yet. Someone else asked about it in the group a few weeks ago and I don't think we ever got a good answer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife- owner@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:AquaticLife- owner@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Wildyspage3girl@ aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife- owner@yahoogroup s.com Subject: (no subject) hi can you please tell me the name of fish shown on home page of this site, thank you wildy n angel _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/14/2008 9:26:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 6a. WANTED Posted by: "wildyandangel" Wildyspage3girl@...   wildyandangel Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:44 am (PDT) CHALLLENGE, can anyone name the fish on the home page of this site, ( AquaticLife ) is it a fresh water chichlid ? or marine fish ? of some kind.come on you knowledgable guys.lets share the secrets. best regards. wildy n angel Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) 6b. Re: WANTED Posted by: "Raymond Wetzel" sevenspringss@...   sevenspringss Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:50 am (PDT) Someone (Snert) has already identified it back on July 2nd as a species of marine Fairy Wrasse, although it was not know exactly what species. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "wildyandangel" <Wildyspage3girl@ ...> wrote: > > CHALLLENGE, can anyone name the fish on the home page of this site, > ( AquaticLife ) is it a fresh water chichlid ? or marine fish ? of > some kind.come on you knowledgable guys.lets share the secrets. best > regards. wildy n angel > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) 6c. Re: WANTED Posted by: "Deenerz@..." Deenerz@...   deenerzz Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:00 am (PDT) Despite appearing like a cichlid, it is not a Cichlid. Many people attempted to identify it not long ago. I don't think it was determined. -Mike In a message dated 8/15/2008 3:44:15 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Wildyspage3girl@ aol.com writes: CHALLLENGE, can anyone name the fish on the home page of this site, ( AquaticLife ) is it a fresh water chichlid ? or marine fish ? of some kind.come on you knowledgable guys.lets share the secrets. best regards. wildy n angel ************ **Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos. aol.com/cars- Volkswagen- Jetta-2009/ expert-review? ncid=aolaut00030 000000007 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity  11 New Members  19 New Photos  3 New LinksVisit Your Group Women of Curves on Yahoo! Groups see how women are changing their lives. Get in Shape on Yahoo! Groups Find a buddy and lose weight. Y! Groups blog The place to go to stay informed on Groups news! Need to Reply? Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest. Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29222	From: harry perry	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish/ Lenny

Heck... back then, you could even tell the Misses to do the chores and if she objected, you could pull out your club and give her a whack and then drag her by the hair across the cave floor. LOL Good grief !!!! How old are you?. Harry --- On Fri, 8/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 10:11 PM Steve, Back in the old days, lots of things weren't done properly in fish keeping and hopefully we learn from our mistakes. Like you said, you were just learning about the nitrogen cycle in aquaria and I'm sure there was nothing being said about stunting being caused by overstocking, hormone levels, etc. Heck... back then, you could even tell the Misses to do the chores and if she objected, you could pull out your club and give her a whack and then drag her by the hair across the cave floor. LOL Or as Archie Bunker would say... "...Those were the days!!!" ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a I had a panted 5 gallon many years ago. I had two dwarf gouramis (before the variations came out to try and outshine the real thing, and you could actually easily by pairs back then), Two Otocinclus, and 4 or 5 zebra fish (before there was ever a long finned variety). The filtration was provided by a bubble-up and the heater was a 25 watt heater--the smallest available at the time. I can see Lenny cringing now. The tank was kept for several years with no problems, and no real maintenance other than water changes and filter cleanings. Now, Lenny can have a heart attack, since this was also a travel tank. It traveled with me back and forth from the east coast to Illinois, where it was kept in a dorm room. I am not suggesting this for you, but just mention it to show what can be done with great care and good tank maintenance. I should also mention that this was about the time the nitrogen cycle and its importance in the aquarium was just being discovered. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080815-0, 08/15/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 9:11:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29223	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

Lenny, I did not say "I", with regard to the nitrogen cycle, but used an implied "we", though "I" was included. While I have not gone and looked (yes, I still have the tank, but nothing in it right now--stainless steel frame and all), I believe, upon reflection (the mental kind, not the water kind), that it was actually a 5.5 gallon tank. A wee bit more breathing room for the fish. I often do wish I had been into photographing my fish at the time. I'd love to have some pictures of that tank, one of my all time favorites. FWIW, I'd probably not attempt it again today. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 10:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Steve, Back in the old days, lots of things weren't done properly in fish keeping and hopefully we learn from our mistakes. Like you said, you were just learning about the nitrogen cycle in aquaria and I'm sure there was nothing being said about stunting being caused by overstocking, hormone levels, etc. Heck... back then, you could even tell the Misses to do the chores and if she objected, you could pull out your club and give her a whack and then drag her by the hair across the cave floor. LOL Or as Archie Bunker would say... "...Those were the days!!!" ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a I had a panted 5 gallon many years ago. I had two dwarf gouramis (before the variations came out to try and outshine the real thing, and you could actually easily by pairs back then), Two Otocinclus, and 4 or 5 zebra fish (before there was ever a long finned variety). The filtration was provided by a bubble-up and the heater was a 25 watt heater--the smallest available at the time. I can see Lenny cringing now. The tank was kept for several years with no problems, and no real maintenance other than water changes and filter cleanings. Now, Lenny can have a heart attack, since this was also a travel tank. It traveled with me back and forth from the east coast to Illinois, where it was kept in a dorm room. I am not suggesting this for you, but just mention it to show what can be done with great care and good tank maintenance. I should also mention that this was about the time the nitrogen cycle and its importance in the aquarium was just being discovered. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29224	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish/ Lenny

I would have ended up getting stoned to death cuz I would have not only told ya to do the "chores" yourself, but I would hit back! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:27:57 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish/ Lenny Heck... back then, you could even tell the Misses to do the chores and if she objected, you could pull out your club and give her a whack and then drag her by the hair across the cave floor. LOL Good grief !!!! How old are you?. Harry --- On Fri, 8/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 10:11 PM Steve, Back in the old days, lots of things weren't done properly in fish keeping and hopefully we learn from our mistakes. Like you said, you were just learning about the nitrogen cycle in aquaria and I'm sure there was nothing being said about stunting being caused by overstocking, hormone levels, etc. Heck... back then, you could even tell the Misses to do the chores and if she objected, you could pull out your club and give her a whack and then drag her by the hair across the cave floor. LOL Or as Archie Bunker would say... "...Those were the days!!!" ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a I had a panted 5 gallon many years ago. I had two dwarf gouramis (before the variations came out to try and outshine the real thing, and you could actually easily by pairs back then), Two Otocinclus, and 4 or 5 zebra fish (before there was ever a long finned variety). The filtration was provided by a bubble-up and the heater was a 25 watt heater--the smallest available at the time. I can see Lenny cringing now. The tank was kept for several years with no problems, and no real maintenance other than water changes and filter cleanings. Now, Lenny can have a heart attack, since this was also a travel tank. It traveled with me back and forth from the east coast to Illinois, where it was kept in a dorm room. I am not suggesting this for you, but just mention it to show what can be done with great care and good tank maintenance. I should also mention that this was about the time the nitrogen cycle and its importance in the aquarium was just being discovered. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080815-0, 08/15/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 9:11:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29225	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish/ Lenny

LOL... I was talking to \\Steve//... I haven't been in the hobby as long as you guys. LOL -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish/ Lenny Heck... back then, you could even tell the Misses to do the chores and if she objected, you could pull out your club and give her a whack and then drag her by the hair across the cave floor. LOL Good grief !!!! How old are you?. Harry --- On Fri, 8/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 10:11 PM Steve, Back in the old days, lots of things weren't done properly in fish keeping and hopefully we learn from our mistakes. Like you said, you were just learning about the nitrogen cycle in aquaria and I'm sure there was nothing being said about stunting being caused by overstocking, hormone levels, etc. Heck... back then, you could even tell the Misses to do the chores and if she objected, you could pull out your club and give her a whack and then drag her by the hair across the cave floor. LOL Or as Archie Bunker would say... "...Those were the days!!!" ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a I had a panted 5 gallon many years ago. I had two dwarf gouramis (before the variations came out to try and outshine the real thing, and you could actually easily by pairs back then), Two Otocinclus, and 4 or 5 zebra fish (before there was ever a long finned variety). The filtration was provided by a bubble-up and the heater was a 25 watt heater--the smallest available at the time. I can see Lenny cringing now. The tank was kept for several years with no problems, and no real maintenance other than water changes and filter cleanings. Now, Lenny can have a heart attack, since this was also a travel tank. It traveled with me back and forth from the east coast to Illinois, where it was kept in a dorm room. I am not suggesting this for you, but just mention it to show what can be done with great care and good tank maintenance. I should also mention that this was about the time the nitrogen cycle and its importance in the aquarium was just being discovered. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080815-0, 08/15/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 9:45:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29226	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish/ Lenny

Oohhh.. a fiesty one! Might take a couple of whacks with the club! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish/ Lenny I would have ended up getting stoned to death cuz I would have not only told ya to do the "chores" yourself, but I would hit back! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:27:57 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish/ Lenny Heck... back then, you could even tell the Misses to do the chores and if she objected, you could pull out your club and give her a whack and then drag her by the hair across the cave floor. LOL Good grief !!!! How old are you?. Harry --- On Fri, 8/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 10:11 PM Steve, Back in the old days, lots of things weren't done properly in fish keeping and hopefully we learn from our mistakes. Like you said, you were just learning about the nitrogen cycle in aquaria and I'm sure there was nothing being said about stunting being caused by overstocking, hormone levels, etc. Heck... back then, you could even tell the Misses to do the chores and if she objected, you could pull out your club and give her a whack and then drag her by the hair across the cave floor. LOL Or as Archie Bunker would say... "...Those were the days!!!" ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a I had a panted 5 gallon many years ago. I had two dwarf gouramis (before the variations came out to try and outshine the real thing, and you could actually easily by pairs back then), Two Otocinclus, and 4 or 5 zebra fish (before there was ever a long finned variety). The filtration was provided by a bubble-up and the heater was a 25 watt heater--the smallest available at the time. I can see Lenny cringing now. The tank was kept for several years with no problems, and no real maintenance other than water changes and filter cleanings. Now, Lenny can have a heart attack, since this was also a travel tank. It traveled with me back and forth from the east coast to Illinois, where it was kept in a dorm room. I am not suggesting this for you, but just mention it to show what can be done with great care and good tank maintenance. I should also mention that this was about the time the nitrogen cycle and its importance in the aquarium was just being discovered. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080815-0, 08/15/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 9:11:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080815-0, 08/15/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 9:47:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080815-0, 08/15/2008 Tested on: 8/15/2008 9:50:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29227	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 8/15/2008
Subject: Need info on Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model AC-1

A good friend gave me this device which has a microcontroller inside to control temperature, automatic feeding, pump, and light control. It is a complicated bugger, and Im looking for a manual, or website of instructions, or a person familiar with setting it up. It also was missing the temperature sensing probe. I did a key word search on internet and nothing was found. If anyone has a manual or is familiar with it, please contact me. This is an awesome device, and cant wait to use it. Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29228	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need info on Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model AC-1

I answered your post about this a week or so ago when you first posted. Check the original post and reply on the group's messages page. I didn't have a definite answer for you but I did find something that might help. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 11:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need info on Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model AC-1 A good friend gave me this device which has a microcontroller inside to control temperature, automatic feeding, pump, and light control. It is a complicated bugger, and Im looking for a manual, or website of instructions, or a person familiar with setting it up. It also was missing the temperature sensing probe. I did a key word search on internet and nothing was found. If anyone has a manual or is familiar with it, please contact me. This is an awesome device, and cant wait to use it. Jim _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080815-0, 08/15/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 2:57:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29229	From: freefallfroggie	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Dying guppy

Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29230	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Did the actual Vet say that or one of his/her staff? In either case, here's a humane way. Tell your Vet about this also. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of freefallfroggie Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080815-0, 08/15/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 10:59:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29231	From: Debra	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and do it again. So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@...> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29232	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and do it again. So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfroggie%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29233	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

I tried the alkaseltzer and freeze method, and I don't think it was very humane. The fish struggled like crazy until the carbon dioxide finally knocked it out. Is clove oil better? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29234	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: How many fish do yall put in a

Could you make the Misses become a Republican, Lenny? ... couldn't resist asking. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 9:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Steve, Heck... back then, you could even tell the Misses to do the chores and if she objected, you could pull out your club and give her a whack and then drag her by the hair across the cave floor. LOL Or as Archie Bunker would say... "...Those were the days!!!" ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29235	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!

I can see why Steve would suggest that But when did you ever injure yourself badly and not apply some sort of antiseptic/ antibiotic? Moreover, just who is going to properly identify a problem? If you can anticipate massive infection it's generally better to prevent it. I think melafix is relatively mild. You can always use a stronger antibiotic if more problems develop. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:32 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! You have done the right thing. Now, just watch his recovery. You may need to treat for developing fungus, or something else, as the time goes by, but don't stock up on any medication until there is a problem and it has been properly identified. I am hopeful for recovery, but I also would not be surprised if you lost the fish. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29236	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need info on Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model AC-1

Does the device have either a brand name, or a model number anywhere on it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim" <jmdarlack@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 11:13 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Need info on Creative Micro Controls, Aqua Comp, Model AC-1 A good friend gave me this device which has a microcontroller inside to control temperature, automatic feeding, pump, and light control. It is a complicated bugger, and Im looking for a manual, or website of instructions, or a person familiar with setting it up. It also was missing the temperature sensing probe. I did a key word search on internet and nothing was found. If anyone has a manual or is familiar with it, please contact me. This is an awesome device, and cant wait to use it. Jim ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29237	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and do it again. So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29238	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Richard. Cichlid has only one H in it. Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. -Mike Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] O n Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and do it again. So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =0 A [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29239	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM Richard. Cichlid has only one H in it. Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. -Mike Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O n Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and do it again. So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =0 A [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29240	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Actually the fastest way is decapitation but most folks can't bring themselves to do it. A hammer smashing the head also works just as quickly. Freezing actually takes quite a while, which is why the clove oil and vodka remedy was concocted. I always mess up and give the fish the clove oil and I drink the vodka so we're both happy! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Haley Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > wrote: From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM Richard. Cichlid has only one H in it. Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. -Mike Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O n Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and do it again. So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =0 A [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 6:38:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 6:50:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29241	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not.  Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore.  What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com <Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: From: Deenerz@aol. com <Deenerz@aol. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM Richard. Cichlid has only one H in it. Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. -Mike Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e .net> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O n Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and do it again. So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =0 A [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29242	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

I keep fish in an unnatural environment in which I seek to emulate their natural surrounding or at the minimum an environment that is as healthy as I can provide. No, I don't teach. Pet peeve of mine is calling a Cichlid a cHichlid. Makes me think of all those little packs of gum the kids try and sell me when I am in Mexico. My intent was not to make you as frustrated as you came across. I do feel a need to make it clear to people that feeding a sick fish to another fish is not a good idea. I really did not see a lot of humor in your post. Had I seen it I would have kept quiet and saved my time and energy. Many newby fish keepers see postings and take them as gospel and follow accordingly. In this case I doubt the owner of the fish would run out and buy two aggressive cichlids to feed upon the sick pet. However the owner may get upset about feeding the family pet to another family pet. -Mike it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind -----Original Message----- From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 4:26 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you kee ping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM Richard. Cichlid has only one H in it. Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. -Mike Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008,201:04 PM Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O n Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and do it again. So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myse lf to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =0 A [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29243	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

BTW I spelled it with one check your fire their Deenerz --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com <Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: From: Deenerz@aol. com <Deenerz@aol. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM Richard. Cichlid has only one H in it. Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. -Mike Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e .net> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O n Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and do it again. So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =0 A [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29244	From: Jenn	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Bushy nosed pleco compatibility

Do you think it would be ok to add my albino long finned bushy nose pleco (adult, 5 inches minus fins) to a tank where the only other bottom feeder is a "candy striped" pleco (its a baby, about 2 inches long)? In that particular tank is a Female Discus and male Angel that have decided to pair up and a ghost shrimp. Lots of room... I ask because the busy nose (BIG male, 6 inches easily) in my 75 gal has killed any other pleco (even female of his species) and a few different garra. He leaves the ottocinclus alone. I don't want to risk anyone. Or, would it be a better idea to move the big bushy nose from the 75 (he's about 5 years old) to the discus tank and put the younger long finned bushy nose in the 75? I just want to make the best moves that I can. Also, what's the difference between a Zebra loach and a Tiger loach? I have one of the two but am not sure now. jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29245	From: freefallfroggie	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

I want to thank you all for your suggestions and compassion. Anyhow, I got the clove oil and the vodka, and as I transferred Bob to the death tank he showed a lot of spunk. In the little tank he was swimming around quickly (still on his back or side) but he seems not to want to go yet, so I broke down and put him back in the aquarium (I'll watch him closely). I had another guppy who was old and she died about a month ago (peacefully), and in my 10 gal. tank I also have a catfish and a clown pleco who are both doing well,( backed up by a chorus of snails). I just want to thank you all again, and I hope that in the future I'll be able to make a meaningful contribution to this group. You all are the best! Peace, Sandi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: > > Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not. Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore. What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley lowjack989@... wrote: > > From: Richard Haley lowjack989@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Richard. > > Cichlid has only one H in it. > > Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. > > Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. > > Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. > > -Mike > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: > > From: Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM > > Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from > health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. > Then freeze. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O > n > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Sandi: > The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with > tank water and put him in your freezer. > That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die > thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch > him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and > do it again. > So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. > Deb > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ > <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either > floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd > passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I > just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me > to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his > misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like > to find a humane way to help him. > Thank you. > Sandi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > =0 > A > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29246	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Please feel free to call me by my name that I sign my email with. -Mike BTW I spelled it with one check your fire their Deenerz -----Original Message----- From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 5:07 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy BTW I spelled it with one check your fire their Deenerz --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com <Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: From: Deenerz@aol. com <Deenerz@aol. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM Richard. Cichlid has only one H in it. Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. -Mike Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how a bout introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e .net> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O n Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and0Ado it again. So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =0 A [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29247	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Yes, unfortunately I’ve used it several times. The fish just goes to sleep peacefully. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 4:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy I tried the alkaseltzer and freeze method, and I don't think it was very humane. The fish struggled like crazy until the carbon dioxide finally knocked it out. Is clove oil better? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29248	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!

The salt is the antiseptic in this case. Addition of medications willy-nilly is not good practice. The microbes being found in humans and animals now are more virulent than they have been in the past. This means that we need to discover and develop drugs that are effective against them. This increase is largely due to the misuse of the drugs that have been available in the past as well as currently. It is best to see what, if anything, develops and then to treat for that. As for the Melafix, it proponents are like evangelists preaching the next coming of the Christ. The web is full of stories about the wondrous properties of Melafix. The web is also rife with stories about how things have gone very wrong with the use of Melafix. I've not seen any work about the real efficacy of Melafix, nor did the search I did tonight come up with any before I quit looking (after the fifth page of results). On the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals site, no evidence is given for the claimed efficacy, but, there is an MSDS sheet available, and this stuff, in a high enough concentration, is not good at all for humans. Here are the first few lines of the MSDS: PRODUCT NAME MELA-FIX STATEMENT OF HAZARDOUS NATURE CONSIDERED A HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE ACCORDING TO OSHA 29 CFR 1910.1200. Do note that the last two lines are printed in red. And here is some more for those who are handling the product about protection you should have: PERSONAL PROTECTION EYE - Safety glasses with side shields - Chemical goggles. - Contact lenses pose a special hazard; soft lenses may absorb irritants and all lenses concentrate them. HANDS/FEET Wear chemical protective gloves, eg. PVC. Wear safety footwear or safety gumboots, eg. Rubber. OTHER - Overalls. - P.V.C. apron. - Barrier cream. - Skin cleansing cream. - Eye wash unit. RESPIRATOR Selection of the Class and Type of respirator will depend upon the level of breathing zone contaminant and the chemical nature of the contaminant. Protection Factors (defined as the ratio of contaminant outside and inside the mask) may also be important. Breathing Zone Maximum Protection Half-face Full-Face Level ppm (volume) Factor Respirator Respirator 1000 10 A-1 - 1000 50 - A-1 5000 50 Airline* - 5000 100 - A-2 10000 100 - A-3 100+ Airline* * * - Continuous Flow ** - Continuous-flow or positive pressure demand. The local concentration of material, quantity and conditions of use determine the type of personal protective equipment required. [NOTE: page break here, from which I cut out all irrelevant text] Section 8 - Test EXPOSURE CONTROLS / PERSONAL PROTECTION Use appropriate NIOSH-certified respirator based on informed professional judgement. In conditions where no reasonable estimate of exposure can be made, assume the exposure is in a concentration IDLH and use NIOSH-certified full face pressure demand SCBA with a minimum service life of 30 minutes, or a combination full facepiece pressure demand SAR with auxiliary self-contained air supply. Respirators provided only for escape from IDLH atmospheres shall be NIOSH-certified for escape from the atmosphere in which they will be used. ENGINEERING CONTROLS General exhaust is adequate under normal operating conditions. If risk of overexposure exists, wear an approved respirator. Correct fit is essential to obtain adequate protection. Provide adequate ventilation in warehouse or closed storage areas. Now, I am not going to stop you, or anyone, from using it, but, until I see some evidence, and not anecdotal evidence, about its efficacy, I'm am not going to use it nor am I recommending it to anyone else. FWIW, after your diatribes against Tim Hovenac and his product, I'd think you wouldn't be touching the stuff with a ten foot pole either. It would remain sitting on the store shelf right next to Dr. Tim's magical cycling potion as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 4:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! I can see why Steve would suggest that But when did you ever injure yourself badly and not apply some sort of antiseptic/ antibiotic? Moreover, just who is going to properly identify a problem? If you can anticipate massive infection it's generally better to prevent it. I think melafix is relatively mild. You can always use a stronger antibiotic if more problems develop. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:32 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! You have done the right thing. Now, just watch his recovery. You may need to treat for developing fungus, or something else, as the time goes by, but don't stock up on any medication until there is a problem and it has been properly identified. I am hopeful for recovery, but I also would not be surprised if you lost the fish. \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29249	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!

Thanks everyone for the advice!! He is mostly back to his original shape and he is able to close his mouth too! He is still pale in some spots where it was bloodshot. His right eye is gone though. He is swimming around and not hiding and is eating. He is still in the 10gallon hopsital tank in which is salted/stress coated. I do have to say the Melafix was an instant hit!!!! about 2 hours after I put it in he started swimming around and eating. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I can see why Steve would suggest that But when did you ever injure > yourself badly and not apply some sort of antiseptic/ antibiotic? > Moreover, just who is going to properly identify a problem? If you can > anticipate massive infection it's generally better to prevent it. > > I think melafix is relatively mild. You can always use a stronger > antibiotic if more problems develop. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:32 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted > Finding Nemo!! > > > You have done the right thing. Now, just watch his recovery. You may > need to treat for developing fungus, or something else, as the time goes > by, but don't stock up on any medication until there is a problem and it > has been properly identified. I am hopeful for recovery, but I also > would not be surprised if you lost the fish. > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29250	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now the spelling bee)

LOL.. yes, Richard, you did spell it with only one "h"... but in the wrong place, "... chiclid..." instead of cichlid. Sorry... I just had to get into this peeing match... ooops.. meant spelling bee... but at least I brought my umbrella... now let it rain!!! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Haley Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy BTW I spelled it with one check your fire their Deenerz --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley <lowjack989@... <mailto:lowjack989%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@... <mailto:lowjack989%40yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com <Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: From: Deenerz@aol. com <Deenerz@aol. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM Richard. Cichlid has only one H in it. Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. -Mike Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e .net> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O n Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and do it again. So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. Deb Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like to find a humane way to help him. Thank you. Sandi _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 9:21:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29251	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Bushy nosed pleco compatibility

I think you should give Hannibleco the BN pleco (play on Hannibal the cannibal) his own tank but you can try him in the big tank. What about moving the little candy striped pleco into another tank just so it doesn't become Hannibleco's next victim... and keep an eye on him with the discus and angelfish as plecos-gone-wild are more infamous for going after wide-bodied slower moving fish but that's usually the underfed common plecos in undersized tanks. As to the loaches... here's Mongabay's profile on many common loaches... http://fish.mongabay.com/botiinae.htm You'll see right at the top, Botia helodes (apparently renamed Syncrossus helodes according to the Loaches.com website) with common names of Banded Loach or Tiger Loach or Barred Loach. Further down on that page almost half way, you'll see Botia macracanthus with common names of Clown Loach or Tiger Loach or Clown Botia (but it's probably not a Clown Loach) and then all the way to the bottom of that page, you'll see Botia striata... the Zebra Loach. Your best bet is to open the "Pictures" link to each of those three species, above, in separate windows/tabs and then try to find a good pic that matches your guy/gal. You can also compare yours to the pics in these profiles. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/botia-striata http://www.loaches.com/species-index/syncrossus-helodes Remember that it's harder to ID fish while they are still juvi's as many change quite a bit as they mature into adulthood. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 7:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bushy nosed pleco compatibility Do you think it would be ok to add my albino long finned bushy nose pleco (adult, 5 inches minus fins) to a tank where the only other bottom feeder is a "candy striped" pleco (its a baby, about 2 inches long)? In that particular tank is a Female Discus and male Angel that have decided to pair up and a ghost shrimp. Lots of room... I ask because the busy nose (BIG male, 6 inches easily) in my 75 gal has killed any other pleco (even female of his species) and a few different garra. He leaves the ottocinclus alone. I don't want to risk anyone. Or, would it be a better idea to move the big bushy nose from the 75 (he's about 5 years old) to the discus tank and put the younger long finned bushy nose in the 75? I just want to make the best moves that I can. Also, what's the difference between a Zebra loach and a Tiger loach? I have one of the two but am not sure now. jenn _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 9:40:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29252	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)

Depending on the species of catfish, your 10G tank may or may not be a large enough tank but it's definitely not large enough for the clown pleco. I know they are one of the dwarf pleco species but they still grow to 5" and are wide bodied fish so they have the body mass of a much larger fish. I would suggest you ID the catfish and then try to make plans to upsize your tank as soon as possible. If you can take a picture of the catfish and upload it here or your own photo hosting site, one of our members may be able to ID it for you... or you can post it in the ID forum at PlanetCatfish.com or if it's a pleco (also a catfish), you can post it at the ID forum for PlecoFanatics.com. Catfish can run in size from around 1" to as big as 5'-6' long and most plecos range in the 4" (dwarf species) to 18"-24" for common plecos so it's very important to know the species when dealing with most fish and especially catfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in my blog are listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and also under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of freefallfroggie Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy I want to thank you all for your suggestions and compassion. Anyhow, I got the clove oil and the vodka, and as I transferred Bob to the death tank he showed a lot of spunk. In the little tank he was swimming around quickly (still on his back or side) but he seems not to want to go yet, so I broke down and put him back in the aquarium (I'll watch him closely). I had another guppy who was old and she died about a month ago (peacefully), and in my 10 gal. tank I also have a catfish and a clown pleco who are both doing well,( backed up by a chorus of snails). I just want to thank you all again, and I hope that in the future I'll be able to make a meaningful contribution to this group. You all are the best! Peace, Sandi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: > > Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not. Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore. What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley lowjack989@... wrote: > > From: Richard Haley lowjack989@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Richard. > > Cichlid has only one H in it. > > Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. > > Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. > > Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. > > -Mike > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: > > From: Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM > > Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from > health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. > Then freeze. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O > n > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Sandi: > The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with > tank water and put him in your freezer. > That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die > thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch > him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and > do it again. > So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. > Deb > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro > ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either > floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd > passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I > just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me > to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his > misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like > to find a humane way to help him. > Thank you. > Sandi > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29253	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)

I've seen catfish get bigger! Lol I had a pictus get 10 inches. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:52:55 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) Depending on the species of catfish, your 10G tank may or may not be a large enough tank but it's definitely not large enough for the clown pleco. I know they are one of the dwarf pleco species but they still grow to 5" and are wide bodied fish so they have the body mass of a much larger fish. I would suggest you ID the catfish and then try to make plans to upsize your tank as soon as possible. If you can take a picture of the catfish and upload it here or your own photo hosting site, one of our members may be able to ID it for you... or you can post it in the ID forum at PlanetCatfish.com or if it's a pleco (also a catfish), you can post it at the ID forum for PlecoFanatics.com. Catfish can run in size from around 1" to as big as 5'-6' long and most plecos range in the 4" (dwarf species) to 18"-24" for common plecos so it's very important to know the species when dealing with most fish and especially catfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in my blog are listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and also under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of freefallfroggie Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy I want to thank you all for your suggestions and compassion. Anyhow, I got the clove oil and the vodka, and as I transferred Bob to the death tank he showed a lot of spunk. In the little tank he was swimming around quickly (still on his back or side) but he seems not to want to go yet, so I broke down and put him back in the aquarium (I'll watch him closely). I had another guppy who was old and she died about a month ago (peacefully), and in my 10 gal. tank I also have a catfish and a clown pleco who are both doing well,( backed up by a chorus of snails). I just want to thank you all again, and I hope that in the future I'll be able to make a meaningful contribution to this group. You all are the best! Peace, Sandi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: > > Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not. Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore. What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley lowjack989@... wrote: > > From: Richard Haley lowjack989@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Richard. > > Cichlid has only one H in it. > > Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. > > Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. > > Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. > > -Mike > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: > > From: Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM > > Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from > health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. > Then freeze. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O > n > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Sandi: > The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with > tank water and put him in your freezer. > That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die > thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch > him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and > do it again. > So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. > Deb > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro > ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either > floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd > passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I > just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me > to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his > misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like > to find a humane way to help him. > Thank you. > Sandi > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 9:52:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)

What are you talking about... "10 inches"? I said catfish can range from the 1" size to as big as 5'-6' (feet, not inches... lol). I've seen pictures of some channel catfish caught down here in the New Orleans area (Mississippi River, etc.) that had a mouth on them big enough to eat a small child in one bite... although I've never heard of them going after anything that big that was alive, as they are mostly scavengers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced above are listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and also under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) I've seen catfish get bigger! Lol I had a pictus get 10 inches. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:52:55 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) Depending on the species of catfish, your 10G tank may or may not be a large enough tank but it's definitely not large enough for the clown pleco. I know they are one of the dwarf pleco species but they still grow to 5" and are wide bodied fish so they have the body mass of a much larger fish. I would suggest you ID the catfish and then try to make plans to upsize your tank as soon as possible. If you can take a picture of the catfish and upload it here or your own photo hosting site, one of our members may be able to ID it for you... or you can post it in the ID forum at PlanetCatfish.com or if it's a pleco (also a catfish), you can post it at the ID forum for PlecoFanatics.com. Catfish can run in size from around 1" to as big as 5'-6' long and most plecos range in the 4" (dwarf species) to 18"-24" for common plecos so it's very important to know the species when dealing with most fish and especially catfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in my blog are listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and also under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of freefallfroggie Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy I want to thank you all for your suggestions and compassion. Anyhow, I got the clove oil and the vodka, and as I transferred Bob to the death tank he showed a lot of spunk. In the little tank he was swimming around quickly (still on his back or side) but he seems not to want to go yet, so I broke down and put him back in the aquarium (I'll watch him closely). I had another guppy who was old and she died about a month ago (peacefully), and in my 10 gal. tank I also have a catfish and a clown pleco who are both doing well,( backed up by a chorus of snails). I just want to thank you all again, and I hope that in the future I'll be able to make a meaningful contribution to this group. You all are the best! Peace, Sandi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: > > Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not. Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore. What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley lowjack989@... wrote: > > From: Richard Haley lowjack989@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Richard. > > Cichlid has only one H in it. > > Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. > > Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. > > Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. > > -Mike > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: > > From: Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM > > Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from > health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. > Then freeze. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O > n > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Sandi: > The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with > tank water and put him in your freezer. > That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die > thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch > him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and > do it again. > So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. > Deb > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro > ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either > floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd > passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I > just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me > to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his > misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like > to find a humane way to help him. > Thank you. > Sandi > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 10:22:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29255	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)

Yea I noticed that after I sent it! Lol workin 11 hour days will do that to ya! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 22:22:00 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) What are you talking about... "10 inches"? I said catfish can range from the 1" size to as big as 5'-6' (feet, not inches... lol). I've seen pictures of some channel catfish caught down here in the New Orleans area (Mississippi River, etc.) that had a mouth on them big enough to eat a small child in one bite... although I've never heard of them going after anything that big that was alive, as they are mostly scavengers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced above are listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and also under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) I've seen catfish get bigger! Lol I had a pictus get 10 inches. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:52:55 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) Depending on the species of catfish, your 10G tank may or may not be a large enough tank but it's definitely not large enough for the clown pleco. I know they are one of the dwarf pleco species but they still grow to 5" and are wide bodied fish so they have the body mass of a much larger fish. I would suggest you ID the catfish and then try to make plans to upsize your tank as soon as possible. If you can take a picture of the catfish and upload it here or your own photo hosting site, one of our members may be able to ID it for you... or you can post it in the ID forum at PlanetCatfish.com or if it's a pleco (also a catfish), you can post it at the ID forum for PlecoFanatics.com. Catfish can run in size from around 1" to as big as 5'-6' long and most plecos range in the 4" (dwarf species) to 18"-24" for common plecos so it's very important to know the species when dealing with most fish and especially catfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in my blog are listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and also under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of freefallfroggie Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy I want to thank you all for your suggestions and compassion. Anyhow, I got the clove oil and the vodka, and as I transferred Bob to the death tank he showed a lot of spunk. In the little tank he was swimming around quickly (still on his back or side) but he seems not to want to go yet, so I broke down and put him back in the aquarium (I'll watch him closely). I had another guppy who was old and she died about a month ago (peacefully), and in my 10 gal. tank I also have a catfish and a clown pleco who are both doing well,( backed up by a chorus of snails). I just want to thank you all again, and I hope that in the future I'll be able to make a meaningful contribution to this group. You all are the best! Peace, Sandi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: > > Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not. Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore. What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley lowjack989@... wrote: > > From: Richard Haley lowjack989@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Richard. > > Cichlid has only one H in it. > > Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. > > Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. > > Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. > > -Mike > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: > > From: Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM > > Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from > health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. > Then freeze. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O > n > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Sandi: > The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with > tank water and put him in your freezer. > That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die > thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch > him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and > do it again. > So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. > Deb > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro > ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either > floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd > passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I > just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me > to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his > misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like > to find a humane way to help him. > Thank you. > Sandi > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 10:22:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29256	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)

OK... we'll blame it on your 11 hour days and not that you might be getting old and can't read the small print on that Blackberry. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 11:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) Yea I noticed that after I sent it! Lol workin 11 hour days will do that to ya! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 22:22:00 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) What are you talking about... "10 inches"? I said catfish can range from the 1" size to as big as 5'-6' (feet, not inches... lol). I've seen pictures of some channel catfish caught down here in the New Orleans area (Mississippi River, etc.) that had a mouth on them big enough to eat a small child in one bite... although I've never heard of them going after anything that big that was alive, as they are mostly scavengers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced above are listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and also under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of allie1068@... <mailto:allie1068%40yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) I've seen catfish get bigger! Lol I had a pictus get 10 inches. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:52:55 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) Depending on the species of catfish, your 10G tank may or may not be a large enough tank but it's definitely not large enough for the clown pleco. I know they are one of the dwarf pleco species but they still grow to 5" and are wide bodied fish so they have the body mass of a much larger fish. I would suggest you ID the catfish and then try to make plans to upsize your tank as soon as possible. If you can take a picture of the catfish and upload it here or your own photo hosting site, one of our members may be able to ID it for you... or you can post it in the ID forum at PlanetCatfish.com or if it's a pleco (also a catfish), you can post it at the ID forum for PlecoFanatics.com. Catfish can run in size from around 1" to as big as 5'-6' long and most plecos range in the 4" (dwarf species) to 18"-24" for common plecos so it's very important to know the species when dealing with most fish and especially catfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in my blog are listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and also under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of freefallfroggie Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy I want to thank you all for your suggestions and compassion. Anyhow, I got the clove oil and the vodka, and as I transferred Bob to the death tank he showed a lot of spunk. In the little tank he was swimming around quickly (still on his back or side) but he seems not to want to go yet, so I broke down and put him back in the aquarium (I'll watch him closely). I had another guppy who was old and she died about a month ago (peacefully), and in my 10 gal. tank I also have a catfish and a clown pleco who are both doing well,( backed up by a chorus of snails). I just want to thank you all again, and I hope that in the future I'll be able to make a meaningful contribution to this group. You all are the best! Peace, Sandi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: > > Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not. Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore. What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley lowjack989@... wrote: > > From: Richard Haley lowjack989@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Richard. > > Cichlid has only one H in it. > > Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. > > Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. > > Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. > > -Mike > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: > > From: Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM > > Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from > health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. > Then freeze. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O > n > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Sandi: > The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with > tank water and put him in your freezer. > That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die > thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch > him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and > do it again. > So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. > Deb > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro > ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either > floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd > passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I > just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me > to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his > misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like > to find a humane way to help him. > Thank you. > Sandi > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 10:22:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 10:31:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 10:36:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29257	From: shoedudenumb1	Date: 8/16/2008
Subject: aquatic frogs

is it ok for aquatic frogs to swallow some rocks while eating

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29258	From: Bruce	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Hi, I'd just like to comment that freezing alone is NOT considered humane euthanasia - it is considered to be painful (plenty of refs - see for example American veterinary Association guidelines http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf). Please do not freeze without anaesthesia. Hope this helps, Bruce.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29259	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

That report also says that clove oil is not acceptable but mainly because it has never been studied by the AVMA... of course, they're not going to study a "natural" remedy that is readily available to most hobbyists without having to pay the Vet... much like most MD's will almost never recommend a "natural" remedy but instead advise their patients on more costly medical remedies. They are recommending various medicinal methods requiring a Vet to perform the procedure... but also recommend decapitation, etc. as physical methods of euthanasia. The clove oil/vodka method has been used in the hobby for many years and seems to be the most humane and aesthetically pleasing way available to hobbyists without the need to shell out big bucks for a Veterinary visit. If one has the means to spend the money for a Vet to administer medicinal euthanasia, then that is certainly an option. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy Hi, I'd just like to comment that freezing alone is NOT considered humane euthanasia - it is considered to be painful (plenty of refs - see for example American veterinary Association guidelines http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf <http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf> ). Please do not freeze without anaesthesia. Hope this helps, Bruce. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/17/2008 3:39:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29260	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

There is some stuff called "Euthanase" but I thought I heard it was based on the same active ingredient that makes clove oil work. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy That report also says that clove oil is not acceptable but mainly because it has never been studied by the AVMA... of course, they're not going to study a "natural" remedy that is readily available to most hobbyists without having to pay the Vet... much like most MD's will almost never recommend a "natural" remedy but instead advise their patients on more costly medical remedies. They are recommending various medicinal methods requiring a Vet to perform the procedure... but also recommend decapitation, etc. as physical methods of euthanasia. The clove oil/vodka method has been used in the hobby for many years and seems to be the most humane and aesthetically pleasing way available to hobbyists without the need to shell out big bucks for a Veterinary visit. If one has the means to spend the money for a Vet to administer medicinal euthanasia, then that is certainly an option. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:49 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy Hi, I'd just like to comment that freezing alone is NOT considered humane euthanasia - it is considered to be painful (plenty of refs - see for example American veterinary Association guidelines http://www.avma. <http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf> org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf <http://www.avma. <http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf> org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf> ). Please do not freeze without anaesthesia. Hope this helps, Bruce. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/17/2008 3:39:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29261	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)

Lenny, You seem to be neglecting _Pangasianodon gigas_ which can reach nearly 10" long. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) Depending on the species of catfish, your 10G tank may or may not be a large enough tank but it's definitely not large enough for the clown pleco. I know they are one of the dwarf pleco species but they still grow to 5" and are wide bodied fish so they have the body mass of a much larger fish. I would suggest you ID the catfish and then try to make plans to upsize your tank as soon as possible. If you can take a picture of the catfish and upload it here or your own photo hosting site, one of our members may be able to ID it for you... or you can post it in the ID forum at PlanetCatfish.com or if it's a pleco (also a catfish), you can post it at the ID forum for PlecoFanatics.com. Catfish can run in size from around 1" to as big as 5'-6' long and most plecos range in the 4" (dwarf species) to 18"-24" for common plecos so it's very important to know the species when dealing with most fish and especially catfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in my blog are listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and also under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of freefallfroggie Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy I want to thank you all for your suggestions and compassion. Anyhow, I got the clove oil and the vodka, and as I transferred Bob to the death tank he showed a lot of spunk. In the little tank he was swimming around quickly (still on his back or side) but he seems not to want to go yet, so I broke down and put him back in the aquarium (I'll watch him closely). I had another guppy who was old and she died about a month ago (peacefully), and in my 10 gal. tank I also have a catfish and a clown pleco who are both doing well,( backed up by a chorus of snails). I just want to thank you all again, and I hope that in the future I'll be able to make a meaningful contribution to this group. You all are the best! Peace, Sandi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: > > Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not. Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore. What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley lowjack989@... wrote: > > From: Richard Haley lowjack989@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Richard. > > Cichlid has only one H in it. > > Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. > > Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. > > Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. > > -Mike > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: > > From: Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM > > Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from > health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. > Then freeze. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O > n > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Sandi: > The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with > tank water and put him in your freezer. > That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die > thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch > him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and > do it again. > So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. > Deb > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro > ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either > floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd > passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I > just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me > to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his > misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like > to find a humane way to help him. > Thank you. > Sandi > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/16/2008 9:52:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29262	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)

10" or 10'? I thought I covered the 10" range when I said 1" to 5'-6' in length? Ahhhh... a quick Google shows me you meant 10'! http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=6202 http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=767 The profile says it's a shoaling fish... guess I better get a bigger tank! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 7:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) Lenny, You seem to be neglecting _Pangasianodon gigas_ which can reach nearly 10" long. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) Depending on the species of catfish, your 10G tank may or may not be a large enough tank but it's definitely not large enough for the clown pleco. I know they are one of the dwarf pleco species but they still grow to 5" and are wide bodied fish so they have the body mass of a much larger fish. I would suggest you ID the catfish and then try to make plans to upsize your tank as soon as possible. If you can take a picture of the catfish and upload it here or your own photo hosting site, one of our members may be able to ID it for you... or you can post it in the ID forum at PlanetCatfish.com or if it's a pleco (also a catfish), you can post it at the ID forum for PlecoFanatics.com. Catfish can run in size from around 1" to as big as 5'-6' long and most plecos range in the 4" (dwarf species) to 18"-24" for common plecos so it's very important to know the species when dealing with most fish and especially catfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in my blog are listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and also under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of freefallfroggie Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy I want to thank you all for your suggestions and compassion. Anyhow, I got the clove oil and the vodka, and as I transferred Bob to the death tank he showed a lot of spunk. In the little tank he was swimming around quickly (still on his back or side) but he seems not to want to go yet, so I broke down and put him back in the aquarium (I'll watch him closely). I had another guppy who was old and she died about a month ago (peacefully), and in my 10 gal. tank I also have a catfish and a clown pleco who are both doing well,( backed up by a chorus of snails). I just want to thank you all again, and I hope that in the future I'll be able to make a meaningful contribution to this group. You all are the best! Peace, Sandi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: > > Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not. Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore. What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley lowjack989@... wrote: > > From: Richard Haley lowjack989@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Richard. > > Cichlid has only one H in it. > > Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. > > Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. > > Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. > > -Mike > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: > > From: Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM > > Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from > health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. > Then freeze. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O > n > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Sandi: > The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with > tank water and put him in your freezer. > That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die > thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch > him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and > do it again. > So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. > Deb > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro > ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either > floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd > passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I > just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me > to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his > misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like > to find a humane way to help him. > Thank you. > Sandi > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080816-0, 08/16/2008 Tested on: 8/17/2008 11:25:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29263	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank)

Sorry, it was 10 feet. Of course, some can get even larger, have a look here: http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/836 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) 10" or 10'? I thought I covered the 10" range when I said 1" to 5'-6' in length? Ahhhh... a quick Google shows me you meant 10'! http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=6202 http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=767 The profile says it's a shoaling fish... guess I better get a bigger tank! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 7:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) Lenny, You seem to be neglecting _Pangasianodon gigas_ which can reach nearly 10" long. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy (now more about the other fish in the tank) Depending on the species of catfish, your 10G tank may or may not be a large enough tank but it's definitely not large enough for the clown pleco. I know they are one of the dwarf pleco species but they still grow to 5" and are wide bodied fish so they have the body mass of a much larger fish. I would suggest you ID the catfish and then try to make plans to upsize your tank as soon as possible. If you can take a picture of the catfish and upload it here or your own photo hosting site, one of our members may be able to ID it for you... or you can post it in the ID forum at PlanetCatfish.com or if it's a pleco (also a catfish), you can post it at the ID forum for PlecoFanatics.com. Catfish can run in size from around 1" to as big as 5'-6' long and most plecos range in the 4" (dwarf species) to 18"-24" for common plecos so it's very important to know the species when dealing with most fish and especially catfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in my blog are listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and also under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of freefallfroggie Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy I want to thank you all for your suggestions and compassion. Anyhow, I got the clove oil and the vodka, and as I transferred Bob to the death tank he showed a lot of spunk. In the little tank he was swimming around quickly (still on his back or side) but he seems not to want to go yet, so I broke down and put him back in the aquarium (I'll watch him closely). I had another guppy who was old and she died about a month ago (peacefully), and in my 10 gal. tank I also have a catfish and a clown pleco who are both doing well,( backed up by a chorus of snails). I just want to thank you all again, and I hope that in the future I'll be able to make a meaningful contribution to this group. You all are the best! Peace, Sandi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: > > Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not. Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore. What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley lowjack989@... wrote: > > From: Richard Haley lowjack989@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Richard. > > Cichlid has only one H in it. > > Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. > > Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. > > Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. > > -Mike > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: > > From: Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM > > Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from > health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. > Then freeze. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O > n > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Sandi: > The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with > tank water and put him in your freezer. > That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die > thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch > him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and > do it again. > So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. > Deb > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ <mailto:freefallfro > ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either > floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd > passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I > just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me > to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his > misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like > to find a humane way to help him. > Thank you. > Sandi >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29264	From: Tania	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Hello everyone! I'm Tania. Nice to make everyone's aquaintance. I am sorta new at fishkeeping and learning from my mistakes sadly. Among my pets (finned, furry & feathered) I have two aquariums, both freshwater. One is a Coffetable tank, holding about 27 Gallons and the other a 10 Gallon. Residents are(listed, but not all housed together): 3 Mystery Snails (one is severely injured, need advice), 3 Tetras, 6 Ghost Shrimp, 5 Female Bettas(my last and Fave male died today :-(, think it was my fault, I'll explain), 4 African Dwarf Frogs, 3 Algae Eaters & 1 Gourami. I think that's everybody. First problem, my toddler, took out my black Mystery snail and threw him, he was playing catch. Unfortunately, my poor snail suffered a bad break in his shell near the tip of the cone, on the second ring. It is a hole and his flesh is exposed. I have put Quick Cure in the water yesterday and today. He's still alive, but I'm not sure if he can survive this. Today, it looked like the flesh that is exposed had some kind of white, crackly looking stuff on it, maybe and infection, I am no expert so I am guessing. However, he's still moving around at least. I have put in some spinach leaves and some cuttle bone for calcium, but other than that, what else can I do to help him survive and what are his chances? The other issue is my Betta, yesterday, I got my fish some live Brine shrimp and fed them all. It was primarily for my frogs since they like live food only, however, all my fish were feasting on these. They are saltwater Brine shrimp. I am guessing the salt was too much for my Betta who probably binged on them. He didn't want to eat today, I could tell something was wrong. I went out and by the time I got home, he was already dead. Very sad. I had originally bought real Seamonkeys and twice they died on me, I think they got too much morning sun exposure so I abandoned that effort and bough brine shrimp. Seems Sea Monkeys are not saltwater, but freshwater and that is the difference. Anybody have experience with Seamonkeys? If I continue to feed these saltwater brine shrimp, will it intoxicate any of my other fish or frogs? How many per fish is ok? Thank you all for your help in advance. Cheers, Tania & the pets

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29265	From: mike	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: wet dry filter problem

Hi, I made my own wet dry filter and it came out very well except for one thing. The Eheim 1200 pumps the water out quicker than it trickles back. I had to put a hose clamp on the line to slow the flow down to half. Its NOT that the return line is too small (1 1/2" pvc) because i've poured water into the skimmer and it takes it quickly. Its NOT that the water is slowed in the medium because its not backing up and i had same problem with no medium. I think it just might be that my sump is too small, but i hace a space problem in cabinet. Has anyone had this problem?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29266	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: frogs :

i want some for aquariums & maybe out side pond. where can get them cheap. someone gave me this link here : http://www.growafrog.com can these be put in large aquariums ?? http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish { this a link with some fish i wanna add frogs to, maybe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29267	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: aquatic frogs - were do u get frogs,aquariums,pond frogs at

at cheap. http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shoedudenumb1" <shoedudenumb1@...> wrote: > > is it ok for aquatic frogs to swallow some rocks while eating >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29268	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 8/17/2008
Subject: Re: frogs :

Just so you know the grow a frogs are claud frogs. (I had one) they get huge and eat any fish thatll fit in its huge mouth. Mine got 8 inches accross and ate everthing in my tank! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@...> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 18:50:29 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] frogs : i want some for aquariums & maybe out side pond. where can get them cheap. someone gave me this link here : http://www.growafrog.com can these be put in large aquariums ?? http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish { this a link with some fish i wanna add frogs to, maybe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29269	From: james	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: HELP my fish

HELP ME my fish are sick and i don know what happened. I have a 55 gallon tank with 6 4yr old gold fish a blue gramie and some guppies. My gold fish are turnning red around the fins. I tested the water the nitroite was high so i changed the 25% water and added the meds. that the store would said would work,and nothing! How long till i see results and what else can i do?? I really love my fish as do my kids i just want to save them,any suggestions would help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish

Give us all of the test results for any tests that you have... the numbers before you did your 25% PWC and afterwards. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness) and temperature. Also, start doing daily 25% PWC's as your tank is severely overstocked. You should have no more than two round-bodied goldfish in a 55G tank and even then, it would take weekly PWC's to keep the water quality up. With six of them and other fish, you need to do daily PWC's and at least weekly filter maintenance. You should also look for new homes for the tropical fish and at least half of the goldfish or you will continue to have lots of water quality issues unless you stick to a very stringent daily PWC schedule and frequent filter maintenance. You should also have two filter systems on the tank so that when you clean one filter, the other will still be fully "cycled" so your fish will not have to go through mini-cycles every time you do filter maintenance. See my blog for my long article on "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning" so you do not kill off all of your good nitrifying bacteria that live mostly in your filter media. What kind of "meds" are you using? For the most part, red streaks in goldfish fins are brought on by poor water quality so if you improve the water quality, the fish will most likely heal up fine on their own. You should probably start using Prime as a water conditioner so that it will help you with your likely ammonia issues as well. If you are getting a nitrite reading, then you probably have or had an ammonia reading. Also add just a pinch of salt (for now) which will help protect against nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder). I'll wait for your reply before going further. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of james Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 9:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish HELP ME my fish are sick and i don know what happened. I have a 55 gallon tank with 6 4yr old gold fish a blue gramie and some guppies. My gold fish are turnning red around the fins. I tested the water the nitroite was high so i changed the 25% water and added the meds. that the store would said would work,and nothing! How long till i see results and what else can i do?? I really love my fish as do my kids i just want to save them,any suggestions would help _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 11:46:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29271	From: kolkri@gmail.com	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish

First you are over stocked. Goldfish need 10 gallons of water each. Also what is your filtration? Goldfish need 10xGPH. Messy messy fish. Lol I would get a tank for the tropical's to have for themselves they well not do well with the cooler water goldfish need and they need different food then your goldfish. Moving them well also help get you closer to the amount of water each goldfish needs and with larger weekly water changes they should be ok with the shortage of 5 gallons. I would do daily water changes or more till all levels are back to normal. Good Luck   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: james Date: 8/18/2008 11:14:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish HELP ME my fish are sick and i don know what happened. I have a 55 gallon tank with 6 4yr old gold fish a blue gramie and some guppies. My gold fish are turnning red around the fins. I tested the water the nitroite was high so i changed the 25% water and added the meds. that the store would said would work,and nothing! How long till i see results and what else can i do?? I really love my fish as do my kids i just want to save them,any suggestions would help ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29272	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Go to http://www.Applesnail.net forums for the best help on your snail. I know they have an article on repairing a snail shell but you may also want to get some first hand info on treating the potential flesh wound before doing a shell repair. I haven't been following them much lately since I haven't had any since Hurricane Katrina. Also, while at the Applesnail site, check out their articles on high calcium foods to feed your snails. Sea-Monkeys are simply brine shrimp. They are one and the same. The very small amount of salt that is in a brine shrimp will not likely kill a fish so maybe you are overfeeding or maybe too many dead brine shrimp in the mix... or maybe attack of the toddler again! ;-) What kind of "algae eaters" do you have? There are literally hundreds or maybe even thousands of fish that are called algae eaters so you need to find out what species you have. What kind of tetras do you have? Some stay quite small while others get quite large. Which fish/frogs do you have in which tank? Looking over your list of fish/critters and using the smallest of species for each unidentified species, I'm not sure if they will all work out long-term in your two tanks so you may need to rethink your stocking plans for long-term success. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tania Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Hello everyone! I'm Tania. Nice to make everyone's aquaintance. I am sorta new at fishkeeping and learning from my mistakes sadly. Among my pets (finned, furry & feathered) I have two aquariums, both freshwater. One is a Coffetable tank, holding about 27 Gallons and the other a 10 Gallon. Residents are(listed, but not all housed together): 3 Mystery Snails (one is severely injured, need advice), 3 Tetras, 6 Ghost Shrimp, 5 Female Bettas(my last and Fave male died today :-(, think it was my fault, I'll explain), 4 African Dwarf Frogs, 3 Algae Eaters & 1 Gourami. I think that's everybody. First problem, my toddler, took out my black Mystery snail and threw him, he was playing catch. Unfortunately, my poor snail suffered a bad break in his shell near the tip of the cone, on the second ring. It is a hole and his flesh is exposed. I have put Quick Cure in the water yesterday and today. He's still alive, but I'm not sure if he can survive this. Today, it looked like the flesh that is exposed had some kind of white, crackly looking stuff on it, maybe and infection, I am no expert so I am guessing. However, he's still moving around at least. I have put in some spinach leaves and some cuttle bone for calcium, but other than that, what else can I do to help him survive and what are his chances? The other issue is my Betta, yesterday, I got my fish some live Brine shrimp and fed them all. It was primarily for my frogs since they like live food only, however, all my fish were feasting on these. They are saltwater Brine shrimp. I am guessing the salt was too much for my Betta who probably binged on them. He didn't want to eat today, I could tell something was wrong. I went out and by the time I got home, he was already dead. Very sad. I had originally bought real Seamonkeys and twice they died on me, I think they got too much morning sun exposure so I abandoned that effort and bough brine shrimp. Seems Sea Monkeys are not saltwater, but freshwater and that is the difference. Anybody have experience with Seamonkeys? If I continue to feed these saltwater brine shrimp, will it intoxicate any of my other fish or frogs? How many per fish is ok? Thank you all for your help in advance. Cheers, Tania & the pets _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 12:26:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29273	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish

Hi Angie, While I agree with you on the overstocking, goldfish need much more than 10G of water each... contrary to the bad info that is out there in so many books, online sites, etc. A single adult round-bodied goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. Considering that, you can see why they need more than 10G each. I have my own Goldfish Care Sheet on my blog which has many references showing these numbers. I recommend a minimum of a 55G tank for two juvenile round-bodied goldfish and even that will need frequent PWC's and filter maintenance. It's especially important to give them lots of fresh water during their juvenile stage so they do not get stunted. Once they reach adult size, stunting isn't an issue but water quality still needs to be kept up with. If someone wants to have a goldfish tank that only requires bi-weekly or monthly maintenance, then they would need at least 75G to 100G per goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kolkri@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish First you are over stocked. Goldfish need 10 gallons of water each. Also what is your filtration? Goldfish need 10xGPH. Messy messy fish. Lol I would get a tank for the tropical's to have for themselves they well not do well with the cooler water goldfish need and they need different food then your goldfish. Moving them well also help get you closer to the amount of water each goldfish needs and with larger weekly water changes they should be ok with the shortage of 5 gallons. I would do daily water changes or more till all levels are back to normal. Good Luck   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: james Date: 8/18/2008 11:14:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish HELP ME my fish are sick and i don know what happened. I have a 55 gallon tank with 6 4yr old gold fish a blue gramie and some guppies. My gold fish are turnning red around the fins. I tested the water the nitroite was high so i changed the 25% water and added the meds. that the store would said would work,and nothing! How long till i see results and what else can i do?? I really love my fish as do my kids i just want to save them,any suggestions would help _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 12:39:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29274	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem

Your returning water should be flowing in as fast as the water is being pumped out. I'm not sure a larger sump would make a difference although it would give you a little more margin of error but it eventually would lose the water-flow battle also if the water isn't returning at the same rate as it's being pumped out. I'm not sure that clamping down the hose is good as that will just make your pump work harder so you have to rethink your return to make sure it can handle the volume. Is your tank drilled/plumbed for a sump system or do you have an overflow box on the tank? You might have to go with a smaller pump if you can't increase the returning flow rate... depending on which would be most cost effective. Which site did you use for your plans... or did you come up with your own? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] wet dry filter problem Hi, I made my own wet dry filter and it came out very well except for one thing. The Eheim 1200 pumps the water out quicker than it trickles back. I had to put a hose clamp on the line to slow the flow down to half. Its NOT that the return line is too small (1 1/2" pvc) because i've poured water into the skimmer and it takes it quickly. Its NOT that the water is slowed in the medium because its not backing up and i had same problem with no medium. I think it just might be that my sump is too small, but i hace a space problem in cabinet. Has anyone had this problem? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 12:45:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29275	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Oh, so clove oil doesn't irritate fish as much as it irritates me? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Yes, unfortunately I've used it several times. The fish just goes to sleep peacefully. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 4:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy I tried the alkaseltzer and freeze method, and I don't think it was very humane. The fish struggled like crazy until the carbon dioxide finally knocked it out. Is clove oil better? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. Then freeze. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy Sandi: The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with tank water and put him in your freezer. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29276	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: frogs :

From my sister - and please, go rescue them! Unless they're a new batch of tadpoles she's killing, every time I go there, she has the same pair of tadpoles swimming around in a goldfish bowl of stinky white water. They got them from the swimming pool. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 1:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] frogs : i want some for aquariums & maybe out side pond. where can get them cheap. someone gave me this link here : http://www.growafrog.com can these be put in large aquariums ?? http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish { this a link with some fish i wanna add frogs to, maybe ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29277	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?

Yup, I've found that to be a reliable sign that the gravel needs cleaning! Thoroughly, even if you change alot of water. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "vivian bradish" <viv32117@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel Cleaning? My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a 70 gallon tank) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29278	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!

Does the MSDS sheet happen to say what is in melafix? People on these lists have been saying it's the ideal thing for a number of situations. But I looked at some in the store today, and all it says about what it contains is tea tree oil. I too wonder if it can really be that good. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! The salt is the antiseptic in this case. Addition of medications willy-nilly is not good practice. The microbes being found in humans and animals now are more virulent than they have been in the past. This means that we need to discover and develop drugs that are effective against them. This increase is largely due to the misuse of the drugs that have been available in the past as well as currently. It is best to see what, if anything, develops and then to treat for that. As for the Melafix, it proponents are like evangelists preaching the next coming of the Christ. The web is full of stories about the wondrous properties of Melafix. The web is also rife with stories about how things have gone very wrong with the use of Melafix. I've not seen any work about the real efficacy of Melafix, nor did the search I did tonight come up with any before I quit looking (after the fifth page of results). On the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals site, no evidence is given for the claimed efficacy, but, there is an MSDS sheet available, and this stuff, in a high enough concentration, is not good at all for humans. Here are the first few lines of the MSDS: PRODUCT NAME MELA-FIX STATEMENT OF HAZARDOUS NATURE CONSIDERED A HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE ACCORDING TO OSHA 29 CFR 1910.1200. Do note that the last two lines are printed in red. And here is some more for those who are handling the product about protection you should have: PERSONAL PROTECTION EYE - Safety glasses with side shields - Chemical goggles. - Contact lenses pose a special hazard; soft lenses may absorb irritants and all lenses concentrate them. HANDS/FEET Wear chemical protective gloves, eg. PVC. Wear safety footwear or safety gumboots, eg. Rubber. OTHER - Overalls. - P.V.C. apron. - Barrier cream. - Skin cleansing cream. - Eye wash unit. RESPIRATOR Selection of the Class and Type of respirator will depend upon the level of breathing zone contaminant and the chemical nature of the contaminant. Protection Factors (defined as the ratio of contaminant outside and inside the mask) may also be important. Breathing Zone Maximum Protection Half-face Full-Face Level ppm (volume) Factor Respirator Respirator 1000 10 A-1 - 1000 50 - A-1 5000 50 Airline* - 5000 100 - A-2 10000 100 - A-3 100+ Airline* * * - Continuous Flow ** - Continuous-flow or positive pressure demand. The local concentration of material, quantity and conditions of use determine the type of personal protective equipment required. [NOTE: page break here, from which I cut out all irrelevant text] Section 8 - Test EXPOSURE CONTROLS / PERSONAL PROTECTION Use appropriate NIOSH-certified respirator based on informed professional judgement. In conditions where no reasonable estimate of exposure can be made, assume the exposure is in a concentration IDLH and use NIOSH-certified full face pressure demand SCBA with a minimum service life of 30 minutes, or a combination full facepiece pressure demand SAR with auxiliary self-contained air supply. Respirators provided only for escape from IDLH atmospheres shall be NIOSH-certified for escape from the atmosphere in which they will be used. ENGINEERING CONTROLS General exhaust is adequate under normal operating conditions. If risk of overexposure exists, wear an approved respirator. Correct fit is essential to obtain adequate protection. Provide adequate ventilation in warehouse or closed storage areas. Now, I am not going to stop you, or anyone, from using it, but, until I see some evidence, and not anecdotal evidence, about its efficacy, I'm am not going to use it nor am I recommending it to anyone else. FWIW, after your diatribes against Tim Hovenac and his product, I'd think you wouldn't be touching the stuff with a ten foot pole either. It would remain sitting on the store shelf right next to Dr. Tim's magical cycling potion as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 4:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! I can see why Steve would suggest that But when did you ever injure yourself badly and not apply some sort of antiseptic/ antibiotic? Moreover, just who is going to properly identify a problem? If you can anticipate massive infection it's generally better to prevent it. I think melafix is relatively mild. You can always use a stronger antibiotic if more problems develop. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:32 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! You have done the right thing. Now, just watch his recovery. You may need to treat for developing fungus, or something else, as the time goes by, but don't stock up on any medication until there is a problem and it has been properly identified. I am hopeful for recovery, but I also would not be surprised if you lost the fish. \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29279	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

If Bob is swimming actively on his back or side, is there any chance he just has a simple infection? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy I want to thank you all for your suggestions and compassion. Anyhow, I got the clove oil and the vodka, and as I transferred Bob to the death tank he showed a lot of spunk. In the little tank he was swimming around quickly (still on his back or side) but he seems not to want to go yet, so I broke down and put him back in the aquarium (I'll watch him closely). I had another guppy who was old and she died about a month ago (peacefully), and in my 10 gal. tank I also have a catfish and a clown pleco who are both doing well,( backed up by a chorus of snails). I just want to thank you all again, and I hope that in the future I'll be able to make a meaningful contribution to this group. You all are the best! Peace, Sandi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard Haley <lowjack989@...> wrote: > > Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not. Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore. What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley lowjack989@... wrote: > > From: Richard Haley lowjack989@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Richard. > > Cichlid has only one H in it. > > Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. > > Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. > > Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. > > -Mike > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: > > From: Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM > > Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from > health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. > Then freeze. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O > n > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Sandi: > The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with > tank water and put him in your freezer. > That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die > thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch > him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and > do it again. > So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. > Deb > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ > <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either > floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd > passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I > just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me > to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his > misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like > to find a humane way to help him. > Thank you. > Sandi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > =0 > A > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29280	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!

Wow! I guess the stuff is worth it then - whatever is really in it. Does it contain only tea tree oil? I mean, I've seen stress coat get sick fish moving. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 9:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! Thanks everyone for the advice!! He is mostly back to his original shape and he is able to close his mouth too! He is still pale in some spots where it was bloodshot. His right eye is gone though. He is swimming around and not hiding and is eating. He is still in the 10gallon hopsital tank in which is salted/stress coated. I do have to say the Melafix was an instant hit!!!! about 2 hours after I put it in he started swimming around and eating. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I can see why Steve would suggest that But when did you ever injure > yourself badly and not apply some sort of antiseptic/ antibiotic? > Moreover, just who is going to properly identify a problem? If you can > anticipate massive infection it's generally better to prevent it. > > I think melafix is relatively mild. You can always use a stronger > antibiotic if more problems develop. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:32 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted > Finding Nemo!! > > > You have done the right thing. Now, just watch his recovery. You may > need to treat for developing fungus, or something else, as the time goes > by, but don't stock up on any medication until there is a problem and it > has been properly identified. I am hopeful for recovery, but I also > would not be surprised if you lost the fish. > > \\Steve// > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29281	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!

I meant to say I've seen stress coat get stressed fish moving. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 9:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! Thanks everyone for the advice!! He is mostly back to his original shape and he is able to close his mouth too! He is still pale in some spots where it was bloodshot. His right eye is gone though. He is swimming around and not hiding and is eating. He is still in the 10gallon hopsital tank in which is salted/stress coated. I do have to say the Melafix was an instant hit!!!! about 2 hours after I put it in he started swimming around and eating. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I can see why Steve would suggest that But when did you ever injure > yourself badly and not apply some sort of antiseptic/ antibiotic? > Moreover, just who is going to properly identify a problem? If you can > anticipate massive infection it's generally better to prevent it. > > I think melafix is relatively mild. You can always use a stronger > antibiotic if more problems develop. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:32 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted > Finding Nemo!! > > > You have done the right thing. Now, just watch his recovery. You may > need to treat for developing fungus, or something else, as the time goes > by, but don't stock up on any medication until there is a problem and it > has been properly identified. I am hopeful for recovery, but I also > would not be surprised if you lost the fish. > > \\Steve// > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29282	From: kolkri@gmail.com	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish

While I agree more is better. 10 gallons per goldfish well work for a very long time. With proper filtration and water changes. But yes even allowing that much water some goldfish well still outgrow the tank. I have three goldfish that I have had for two years. Two oranda's and one fantail in a 30 gallon tank with 500 gph that have yet to stop growing and have never been sick. (knock on wood.) I do weekly 50% water changes. One of the filters is a canister that I only rinse out about once a month. The other is a HOB that I rinse out ever two weeks.   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 08/18/08 12:39:26 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish Hi Angie, While I agree with you on the overstocking, goldfish need much more than 10G of water each... contrary to the bad info that is out there in so many books online sites, etc. A single adult round-bodied goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. Considering that, you can see why they need more than 10G each. I have my own Goldfish Care Sheet on my blog which has many references showing these numbers. I recommend a minimum of a 55G tank for two juvenile round-bodied goldfish and even that will need frequent PWC s and filter maintenance. It's especially important to give them lots of fresh water during their juvenile stage so they do not get stunted. Once they reach adult size, stunting isn't an issue but water quality still needs to be kept up with. If someone wants to have a goldfish tank that only requires bi-weekly or monthly maintenance, then they would need at least 75G to 100G per goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kolkri@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish First you are over stocked. Goldfish need 10 gallons of water each. Also what is your filtration? Goldfish need 10xGPH. Messy messy fish. Lol I would get a tank for the tropical's to have for themselves they well not do well with the cooler water goldfish need and they need different food then your goldfish. Moving them well also help get you closer to the amount of water each goldfish needs and with larger weekly water changes they should be ok with the shortage of 5 gallons. I would do daily water changes or more till all levels are back to normal. Good Luck   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: james Date: 8/18/2008 11:14:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish HELP ME my fish are sick and i don know what happened. I have a 55 gallon tank with 6 4yr old gold fish a blue gramie and some guppies. My gold fish are turnning red around the fins. I tested the water the nitroite was high so i changed the 25% water and added the meds. that the store would said would work,and nothing! How long till i see results and what else can i do?? I really love my fish as do my kids i just want to save them,any suggestions would help _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 12:39:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29283	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Sounds as if he has a swim bladder disorder --- On Mon, 8/18/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 3:01 PM If Bob is swimming actively on his back or side, is there any chance he just has a simple infection? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy I want to thank you all for your suggestions and compassion. Anyhow, I got the clove oil and the vodka, and as I transferred Bob to the death tank he showed a lot of spunk. In the little tank he was swimming around quickly (still on his back or side) but he seems not to want to go yet, so I broke down and put him back in the aquarium (I'll watch him closely). I had another guppy who was old and she died about a month ago (peacefully) , and in my 10 gal. tank I also have a catfish and a clown pleco who are both doing well,( backed up by a chorus of snails). I just want to thank you all again, and I hope that in the future I'll be able to make a meaningful contribution to this group. You all are the best! Peace, Sandi --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Richard Haley <lowjack989@ ...> wrote: > > Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not. Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore. What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley lowjack989@. .. wrote: > > From: Richard Haley lowjack989@. .. > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Richard. > > Cichlid has only one H in it. > > Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. > > Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. > > Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. > > -Mike > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: > > From: Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM > > Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from > health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. > Then freeze. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O > n > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Sandi: > The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with > tank water and put him in your freezer. > That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die > thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch > him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and > do it again. > So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. > Deb > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ > <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either > floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd > passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I > just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me > to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his > misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like > to find a humane way to help him. > Thank you. > Sandi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > =0 > A > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29284	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Hello Lenny and thanks for the advice.� I really appreciate your help. � I went to the Applesnail site and did not find any article for repairing the shell or on high calcium foods for them.� Nor did it give me much help at all on knowing what to do or what the survival chances are.� Is there any other site with that info?� I did read an article I found on Google that said the hole could possibly be repaired with crazy glue and egg shell, but chances are the snail would eventually die.� I would like to try that if I see my snail is still alive in a day or two.� Also I wanted to treat his wound for infection, not sure if the Fish Protector I used will help. � I realize now I made a huge mistake by using the Quick Cure remedy as it is not for invertebrates.� My 3 snails�received 2 days worth of this medication.� I have now taken them out from that tank and put them in the other with some fish Kordon Fish Protector, it is a destresser which has B12 and Echinacea.� The three are not looking good today, very little movement and I don't think they're eating.� I am thinking I may remove them all together and put them in their own hospital tank, no pump or filter, as I read they can survive ok in there for long periods. � I asked a Sea Monkey expert and they told me that Sea Monkeys are a Hybrid of the Brine shrimp, as they live in fresh, not salt water.� Yes it's possible my Betta ate too many dead ones or just simply over ate.� He was so happy eating them though!� How sad :-( RIP Chi Chi � * As for my stock, here goes, I'm no expert and I can't remember some of the names, but I will try, they're all from Petsmart as of now: � - 2 Neon Tetras - 1 Tetra of another type, looks like a Harlequin Rasbora, but has longer fins and no black on the body from Petsmart - 1 Siamese Algae Eater (I think or it looks like this one) - 1 Albino Algae Eater - 1 Gourami - 9 Ghost Shrimp, 2 are Preggo - 4 African Dwarf Frogs - 3 Mystery Snail(that's what Petsmart calls them), 2 Gold and 1 Black (the one with the hole in his shell) - 5 Female Bettas - 5 Baby Mystery Fish, they came with the Shrimp, maybe Guppies, can't tell yet, they're tiny � � * As for which fish are in which tank, I switch them around sometimes, but here's what it looks like today. � 10 Gallon Tank: - 3 Snails - 5 Baby Fish - 9 Ghost Shrimp -�2 Neon Tetra� - 1�other Tetra� � � 27 Gallon Coffee table (can hold up to about 40 or more�Gallons if needed): -� 1 Gourami -� 5 Female Bettas - 2 Algae Eaters -� 4 African Dwarf Frogs� � � In overlooking this, I can see that my 10 Gallon is over crowded so I will plan to move some of the Ghost Shrimp to the Coffee Table tank.� I'm a little worried about the Bettas eating them though. � What would be your recommendations as to my stocking for long term?� I was also thinking about getting a German Ram fish.� Would it be compatible? � Thanks in advance for your help. � Cheers, Tania and the fids � � Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:26:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Go to http://www.Applesnail.net forums for the best help on your snail. I know they have an article on repairing a snail shell but you may also want to get some first hand info on treating the potential flesh wound before doing a shell repair. I haven't been following them much lately since I haven't had any since Hurricane Katrina. Also, while at the Applesnail site, check out their articles on high calcium foods to feed your snails. Sea-Monkeys are simply brine shrimp. They are one and the same. The very small amount of salt that is in a brine shrimp will not likely kill a fish so maybe you are overfeeding or maybe too many dead brine shrimp in the mix... or maybe attack of the toddler again! ;-) What kind of "algae eaters" do you have? There are literally hundreds or maybe even thousands of fish that are called algae eaters so you need to find out what species you have. What kind of tetras do you have? Some stay quite small while others get quite large. Which fish/frogs do you have in which tank? Looking over your list of fish/critters and using the smallest of species for each unidentified species, I'm not sure if they will all work out long-term in your two tanks so you may need to rethink your stocking plans for long-term success. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tania Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Hello everyone! I'm Tania. Nice to make everyone's aquaintance. I am sorta new at fishkeeping and learning from my mistakes sadly. Among my pets (finned, furry & feathered) I have two aquariums, both freshwater. One is a Coffetable tank, holding about 27 Gallons and the other a 10 Gallon. Residents are(listed, but not all housed together): 3 Mystery Snails (one is severely injured, need advice), 3 Tetras, 6 Ghost Shrimp, 5 Female Bettas(my last and Fave male died today :-(, think it was my fault, I'll explain), 4 African Dwarf Frogs, 3 Algae Eaters & 1 Gourami. I think that's everybody. First problem, my toddler, took out my black Mystery snail and threw him, he was playing catch. Unfortunately, my poor snail suffered a bad break in his shell near the tip of the cone, on the second ring. It is a hole and his flesh is exposed. I have put Quick Cure in the water yesterday and today. He's still alive, but I'm not sure if he can survive this. Today, it looked like the flesh that is exposed had some kind of white, crackly looking stuff on it, maybe and infection, I am no expert so I am guessing. However, he's still moving around at least. I have put in some spinach leaves and some cuttle bone for calcium, but other than that, what else can I do to help him survive and what are his chances? The other issue is my Betta, yesterday, I got my fish some live Brine shrimp and fed them all. It was primarily for my frogs since they like live food only, however, all my fish were feasting on these. They are saltwater Brine shrimp. I am guessing the salt was too much for my Betta who probably binged on them. He didn't want to eat today, I could tell something was wrong. I went out and by the time I got home, he was already dead. Very sad. I had originally bought real Seamonkeys and twice they died on me, I think they got too much morning sun exposure so I abandoned that effort and bough brine shrimp. Seems Sea Monkeys are not saltwater, but freshwater and that is the difference. Anybody have experience with Seamonkeys? If I continue to feed these saltwater brine shrimp, will it intoxicate any of my other fish or frogs? How many per fish is ok? Thank you all for your help in advance. Cheers, Tania & the pets _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 12:26:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29285	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: frogs :

In a message dated 8/17/2008 9:28:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, texas_tears2000@... writes: i want some for aquariums & maybe out side pond. where can get them cheap. someone gave me this link here : _http://www.growafrohttp:_ (http://www.growafrog.com/) Those look like african clawed frogs, cheap to find in your local pet store. I have no personal experience with them, but a friend had three in a 10 gallon tank. They were interesting to watch. They will eat fish fry, thou. (she had guppies in the tank and the babies that strayed near the bottom were history) Enid Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says.... SHIT, She's awake! **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29286	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish

The only reason that 10G seems to work is that the goldfish get stunted so they do not grow as much as they should. Goldfish should reach 90% of their full size in the first 1-3 years and they'll grow bigger/faster in a larger volume of water with good water quality. That is why it's so important to provide them with adequate water volume while they are still small.. so they can reach full size. That simply can't happen in only 10G of water per goldfish. I've never seen an adult goldfish reach full size in 10G of water, nor one that lived a full, healthy life in only 10G of water... nor one that lived a full lifespan of 10+ years for fancy and 20+ years for long-bodied goldfish in only 10G of water.. it simply isn't a good thing to do. It's not good for the fish and it's a major chore for the hobbyist instead of it being fun. I've seen far too many people (thousands) posting in forums like this one when their goldfish are getting sick and/or dying and it's almost always due to the same thing... being in an undersized tank, being overstocked and/or poor water quality. As I stated earlier.. an adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. We certainly wouldn't keep 500 1" goldfish in 10G of water yet that is what we are attempting to do with a single goldfish trying to raise it in only 10G of water. Each time a goldfish doubles it's length, it increases it's body mass by eight times... so a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" or 64 1" goldfish. An 8" goldfish is equal in body mass to eight 4", 64 2" or over 500 1" goldfish. Even a 55G with two goldfish isn't really enough water volume but it's 275% better than a single goldfish in 10G of water and it's 275% better for the juvi goldfish to grow out better. I've been keeping goldfish in ponds for a long time and more recently, two fancy goldfish in a 65G tank the past five years and believe me.. it simply cannot work long-term in 10G of water and will only cause the fish to be stunted and experience a much shorter lifespan and other health issues along the way. Even with only two fancy goldfish in my 65G, I have to do weekly PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance (alternating one filter every week so one stays fully cycled at all times) to keep the water quality where it should be.. and I have lots of live plants to further help water quality. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kolkri@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish While I agree more is better. 10 gallons per goldfish well work for a very long time. With proper filtration and water changes. But yes even allowing that much water some goldfish well still outgrow the tank. I have three goldfish that I have had for two years. Two oranda's and one fantail in a 30 gallon tank with 500 gph that have yet to stop growing and have never been sick. (knock on wood.) I do weekly 50% water changes. One of the filters is a canister that I only rinse out about once a month. The other is a HOB that I rinse out ever two weeks.   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 08/18/08 12:39:26 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish Hi Angie, While I agree with you on the overstocking, goldfish need much more than 10G of water each... contrary to the bad info that is out there in so many books online sites, etc. A single adult round-bodied goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. Considering that, you can see why they need more than 10G each. I have my own Goldfish Care Sheet on my blog which has many references showing these numbers. I recommend a minimum of a 55G tank for two juvenile round-bodied goldfish and even that will need frequent PWC s and filter maintenance. It's especially important to give them lots of fresh water during their juvenile stage so they do not get stunted. Once they reach adult size, stunting isn't an issue but water quality still needs to be kept up with. If someone wants to have a goldfish tank that only requires bi-weekly or monthly maintenance, then they would need at least 75G to 100G per goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kolkri@... <mailto:kolkri%40gmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish First you are over stocked. Goldfish need 10 gallons of water each. Also what is your filtration? Goldfish need 10xGPH. Messy messy fish. Lol I would get a tank for the tropical's to have for themselves they well not do well with the cooler water goldfish need and they need different food then your goldfish. Moving them well also help get you closer to the amount of water each goldfish needs and with larger weekly water changes they should be ok with the shortage of 5 gallons. I would do daily water changes or more till all levels are back to normal. Good Luck   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: james Date: 8/18/2008 11:14:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish HELP ME my fish are sick and i don know what happened. I have a 55 gallon tank with 6 4yr old gold fish a blue gramie and some guppies. My gold fish are turnning red around the fins. I tested the water the nitroite was high so i changed the 25% water and added the meds. that the store would said would work,and nothing! How long till i see results and what else can i do?? I really love my fish as do my kids i just want to save them,any suggestions would help _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 4:28:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29287	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Here's the links for the snails. Foods - http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 Shell Repair (part of the Disease page) - http://www.applesnail.net/content/various/snail_disease.php and more particularly here... http://members.shaw.ca/the-guyz/snail_plaster_experiment.htm I'll look over the rest of your email when I get back home later. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 3:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Hello Lenny and thanks for the advice. I really appreciate your help. I went to the Applesnail site and did not find any article for repairing the shell or on high calcium foods for them. Nor did it give me much help at all on knowing what to do or what the survival chances are. Is there any other site with that info? I did read an article I found on Google that said the hole could possibly be repaired with crazy glue and egg shell, but chances are the snail would eventually die. I would like to try that if I see my snail is still alive in a day or two. Also I wanted to treat his wound for infection, not sure if the Fish Protector I used will help. I realize now I made a huge mistake by using the Quick Cure remedy as it is not for invertebrates. My 3 snailsreceived 2 days worth of this medication. I have now taken them out from that tank and put them in the other with some fish Kordon Fish Protector, it is a destresser which has B12 and Echinacea. The three are not looking good today, very little movement and I don't think they're eating. I am thinking I may remove them all together and put them in their own hospital tank, no pump or filter, as I read they can survive ok in there for long periods. I asked a Sea Monkey expert and they told me that Sea Monkeys are a Hybrid of the Brine shrimp, as they live in fresh, not salt water. Yes it's possible my Betta ate too many dead ones or just simply over ate. He was so happy eating them though! How sad :-( RIP Chi Chi * As for my stock, here goes, I'm no expert and I can't remember some of the names, but I will try, they're all from Petsmart as of now: - 2 Neon Tetras - 1 Tetra of another type, looks like a Harlequin Rasbora, but has longer fins and no black on the body from Petsmart - 1 Siamese Algae Eater (I think or it looks like this one) - 1 Albino Algae Eater - 1 Gourami - 9 Ghost Shrimp, 2 are Preggo - 4 African Dwarf Frogs - 3 Mystery Snail(that's what Petsmart calls them), 2 Gold and 1 Black (the one with the hole in his shell) - 5 Female Bettas - 5 Baby Mystery Fish, they came with the Shrimp, maybe Guppies, can't tell yet, they're tiny * As for which fish are in which tank, I switch them around sometimes, but here's what it looks like today. 10 Gallon Tank: - 3 Snails - 5 Baby Fish - 9 Ghost Shrimp -2 Neon Tetra - 1other Tetra 27 Gallon Coffee table (can hold up to about 40 or moreGallons if needed): - 1 Gourami - 5 Female Bettas - 2 Algae Eaters - 4 African Dwarf Frogs In overlooking this, I can see that my 10 Gallon is over crowded so I will plan to move some of the Ghost Shrimp to the Coffee Table tank. I'm a little worried about the Bettas eating them though. What would be your recommendations as to my stocking for long term? I was also thinking about getting a German Ram fish. Would it be compatible? Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers, Tania and the fids Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:26:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Go to http://www.Applesnail.net <http://www.Applesnail.net> forums for the best help on your snail. I know they have an article on repairing a snail shell but you may also want to get some first hand info on treating the potential flesh wound before doing a shell repair. I haven't been following them much lately since I haven't had any since Hurricane Katrina. Also, while at the Applesnail site, check out their articles on high calcium foods to feed your snails. Sea-Monkeys are simply brine shrimp. They are one and the same. The very small amount of salt that is in a brine shrimp will not likely kill a fish so maybe you are overfeeding or maybe too many dead brine shrimp in the mix... or maybe attack of the toddler again! ;-) What kind of "algae eaters" do you have? There are literally hundreds or maybe even thousands of fish that are called algae eaters so you need to find out what species you have. What kind of tetras do you have? Some stay quite small while others get quite large. Which fish/frogs do you have in which tank? Looking over your list of fish/critters and using the smallest of species for each unidentified species, I'm not sure if they will all work out long-term in your two tanks so you may need to rethink your stocking plans for long-term success. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Tania Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Hello everyone! I'm Tania. Nice to make everyone's aquaintance. I am sorta new at fishkeeping and learning from my mistakes sadly. Among my pets (finned, furry & feathered) I have two aquariums, both freshwater. One is a Coffetable tank, holding about 27 Gallons and the other a 10 Gallon. Residents are(listed, but not all housed together): 3 Mystery Snails (one is severely injured, need advice), 3 Tetras, 6 Ghost Shrimp, 5 Female Bettas(my last and Fave male died today :-(, think it was my fault, I'll explain), 4 African Dwarf Frogs, 3 Algae Eaters & 1 Gourami. I think that's everybody. First problem, my toddler, took out my black Mystery snail and threw him, he was playing catch. Unfortunately, my poor snail suffered a bad break in his shell near the tip of the cone, on the second ring. It is a hole and his flesh is exposed. I have put Quick Cure in the water yesterday and today. He's still alive, but I'm not sure if he can survive this. Today, it looked like the flesh that is exposed had some kind of white, crackly looking stuff on it, maybe and infection, I am no expert so I am guessing. However, he's still moving around at least. I have put in some spinach leaves and some cuttle bone for calcium, but other than that, what else can I do to help him survive and what are his chances? The other issue is my Betta, yesterday, I got my fish some live Brine shrimp and fed them all. It was primarily for my frogs since they like live food only, however, all my fish were feasting on these. They are saltwater Brine shrimp. I am guessing the salt was too much for my Betta who probably binged on them. He didn't want to eat today, I could tell something was wrong. I went out and by the time I got home, he was already dead. Very sad. I had originally bought real Seamonkeys and twice they died on me, I think they got too much morning sun exposure so I abandoned that effort and bough brine shrimp. Seems Sea Monkeys are not saltwater, but freshwater and that is the difference. Anybody have experience with Seamonkeys? If I continue to feed these saltwater brine shrimp, will it intoxicate any of my other fish or frogs? How many per fish is ok? Thank you all for your help in advance. Cheers, Tania & the pets _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 12:26:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 3:40:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 4:40:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29288	From: kolkri@gmail.com	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish

LOL Thanks for the warning. Stunting is not an issue with my fish that is for sure. Think Ill stick to my rule of thumb.   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 8/18/2008 4:28:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish The only reason that 10G seems to work is that the goldfish get stunted so they do not grow as much as they should. Goldfish should reach 90% of their full size in the first 1-3 years and they'll grow bigger/faster in a larger volume of water with good water quality. That is why it's so important to provide them with adequate water volume while they are still small.. so they can reach full size. That simply can't happen in only 10G of water per goldfish. I've never seen an adult goldfish reach full size in 10G of water nor one that lived a full, healthy life in only 10G of water... nor one that lived a full lifespan of 10+ years for fancy and 20+ years for long-bodied goldfish in only 10G of water.. it simply isn't a good thing to do. It's not good for the fish and it's a major chore for the hobbyist instead of it being fun. I've seen far too many people (thousands) posting in forums like this one when their goldfish are getting sick and/or dying and it's almost always due to the same thing... being in an undersized tank, being overstocked and/or poor water quality. As I stated earlier.. an adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. We certainly wouldn't keep 500 1" goldfish in 10G of water yet that is what we are attempting to do with a single goldfish trying to raise it in only 10G of water. Each time a goldfish doubles it's length, it increases it's body mass by eight times... so a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" or 64 1" goldfish. An 8" goldfish is equal in body mass to eight 4", 64 2" or over 500 1" goldfish. Even a 55G with two goldfish isn't really enough water volume but it's 275% better than a single goldfish in 10G of water and it's 275% better for the juvi goldfish to grow out better. I've been keeping goldfish in ponds for a long time and more recently, two fancy goldfish in a 65G tank the past five years and believe me.. it simply cannot work long-term in 10G of water and will only cause the fish to be stunted and experience a much shorter lifespan and other health issues along the way. Even with only two fancy goldfish in my 65G, I have to do weekly PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance (alternating one filter every week so one stays fully cycled at all times) to keep the water quality where it should be.. and I have lots of live plants to further help water quality. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kolkri@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish While I agree more is better. 10 gallons per goldfish well work for a very long time. With proper filtration and water changes. But yes even allowing that much water some goldfish well still outgrow the tank. I have three goldfish that I have had for two years. Two oranda's and one fantail in a 30 gallon tank with 500 gph that have yet to stop growing and have never been sick. (knock on wood.) I do weekly 50% water changes. One of the filters is a canister that I only rinse out about once a month. The other is a HOB that I rinse out ever two weeks.   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 08/18/08 12:39:26 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish Hi Angie, While I agree with you on the overstocking, goldfish need much more than 10G of water each... contrary to the bad info that is out there in so many books online sites, etc. A single adult round-bodied goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. Considering that, you can see why they need more than 10G each. I have my own Goldfish Care Sheet on my blog which has many references showing these numbers. I recommend a minimum of a 55G tank for two juvenile round-bodied goldfish and even that will need frequent PWC s and filter maintenance. It's especially important to give them lots of fresh water during their juvenile stage so they do not get stunted. Once they reach adult size, stunting isn't an issue but water quality still needs to be kept up with. If someone wants to have a goldfish tank that only requires bi-weekly or monthly maintenance, then they would need at least 75G to 100G per goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kolkri@... <mailto:kolkri%40gmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish First you are over stocked. Goldfish need 10 gallons of water each. Also what is your filtration? Goldfish need 10xGPH. Messy messy fish. Lol I would get a tank for the tropical's to have for themselves they well not do well with the cooler water goldfish need and they need different food then your goldfish. Moving them well also help get you closer to the amount of water each goldfish needs and with larger weekly water changes they should be ok with the shortage of 5 gallons. I would do daily water changes or more till all levels are back to normal. Good Luck   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: james Date: 8/18/2008 11:14:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish HELP ME my fish are sick and i don know what happened. I have a 55 gallon tank with 6 4yr old gold fish a blue gramie and some guppies. My gold fish are turnning red around the fins. I tested the water the nitroite was high so i changed the 25% water and added the meds. that the store would said would work,and nothing! How long till i see results and what else can i do?? I really love my fish as do my kids i just want to save them,any suggestions would help _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 4:28:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29289	From: mike	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem

thanks. the water does eventualy return as quick as it is pumped, it just takes a good 15 seconds to do so, and by then the pump is sucking air. It could actually take a lot more water because i poured a bucket right into skimmer and it took it no problem. I have a box on inside and outside to keep a constant siphon over tank and then 1 1/2 going down to filter. I'm really starting to think i need a bigger sump to give me that extra few seconds i need to complete the circuit, but space is a problem. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Your returning water should be flowing in as fast as the water is being > pumped out. I'm not sure a larger sump would make a difference although it > would give you a little more margin of error but it eventually would lose > the water-flow battle also if the water isn't returning at the same rate as > it's being pumped out. I'm not sure that clamping down the hose is good as > that will just make your pump work harder so you have to rethink your return > to make sure it can handle the volume. Is your tank drilled/plumbed for a > sump system or do you have an overflow box on the tank? You might have to > go with a smaller pump if you can't increase the returning flow rate... > depending on which would be most cost effective. > > Which site did you use for your plans... or did you come up with your own? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] wet dry filter problem > > Hi, I made my own wet dry filter and it came out very well except for one > thing. The Eheim 1200 pumps the water out quicker than it trickles back. I > had to put a hose clamp on the line to slow the flow down to half. Its NOT > that the return line is too small (1 1/2" pvc) because i've poured water > into the skimmer and it takes it quickly. Its NOT that the water is slowed > in the medium because its not backing up and i had same problem with no > medium. > I think it just might be that my sump is too small, but i hace a space > problem in cabinet. > Has anyone had this problem? > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 > Tested on: 8/18/2008 12:45:07 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29290	From: mike	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem

sorry i didn't see rest of your relpy. Last year i read every message and site i could and designed my own. I'm using a stacking plactic storage system on top of a tupperware type sump. Except for the one problem i have, its pretty cool and I will post pics when its done, the external skimmer is built into a half wall and all the pipes are hidden in wall. I think to test to see if I need a bigger sump, I'm going to fill the filter to the brim once the trickling is in full effect and see how the flow goes when i crank up filter. As long as i remove the same amount of water before I turn pump off!! LOL --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Your returning water should be flowing in as fast as the water is being > pumped out. I'm not sure a larger sump would make a difference although it > would give you a little more margin of error but it eventually would lose > the water-flow battle also if the water isn't returning at the same rate as > it's being pumped out. I'm not sure that clamping down the hose is good as > that will just make your pump work harder so you have to rethink your return > to make sure it can handle the volume. Is your tank drilled/plumbed for a > sump system or do you have an overflow box on the tank? You might have to > go with a smaller pump if you can't increase the returning flow rate... > depending on which would be most cost effective. > > Which site did you use for your plans... or did you come up with your own? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] wet dry filter problem > > Hi, I made my own wet dry filter and it came out very well except for one > thing. The Eheim 1200 pumps the water out quicker than it trickles back. I > had to put a hose clamp on the line to slow the flow down to half. Its NOT > that the return line is too small (1 1/2" pvc) because i've poured water > into the skimmer and it takes it quickly. Its NOT that the water is slowed > in the medium because its not backing up and i had same problem with no > medium. > I think it just might be that my sump is too small, but i hace a space > problem in cabinet. > Has anyone had this problem? > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 > Tested on: 8/18/2008 12:45:07 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29291	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish

I'm glad you brought up your "rule of thumb" as the "10G per goldfish rule" is actually based on the fish-killing "one inch per gallon rule" which simply doesn't work for any fish that get over 3" as adults. It's an OK guideline for smaller fish that stay under 3" as adults but it simply cannot work for medium to large sized fish. A 10" goldfish cannot live in a 10G tank. A 15" Oscar cannot live in a 15G tank. A 36" Koi cannot live in a 36G tank. You can stick to it all you want and LOL all you want... but your fish will definitely suffer and I know you don't really want that... but I'm sure you'll do what you want. Further... how would you know if your fish are stunted or not unless you compared their growth in a proper sized tank versus being overstocked or in an undersized tank? In a proper sized tank, your three two year old fancy goldfish would be 5"-6" in body length. It's not just my thoughts about this.. fish stunting caused by hormonal overload due to overstocking issues and undersized tanks is based on scientific evidence done for the fisheries industry and has been replicated by hobbyists over the years. You can do a Google Scholar search to read all of the scientific reports and you can also read over my goldfish care sheet where I reference many articles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kolkri@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 5:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish LOL Thanks for the warning. Stunting is not an issue with my fish that is for sure. Think Ill stick to my rule of thumb.   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 8/18/2008 4:28:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish The only reason that 10G seems to work is that the goldfish get stunted so they do not grow as much as they should. Goldfish should reach 90% of their full size in the first 1-3 years and they'll grow bigger/faster in a larger volume of water with good water quality. That is why it's so important to provide them with adequate water volume while they are still small.. so they can reach full size. That simply can't happen in only 10G of water per goldfish. I've never seen an adult goldfish reach full size in 10G of water nor one that lived a full, healthy life in only 10G of water... nor one that lived a full lifespan of 10+ years for fancy and 20+ years for long-bodied goldfish in only 10G of water.. it simply isn't a good thing to do. It's not good for the fish and it's a major chore for the hobbyist instead of it being fun. I've seen far too many people (thousands) posting in forums like this one when their goldfish are getting sick and/or dying and it's almost always due to the same thing... being in an undersized tank, being overstocked and/or poor water quality. As I stated earlier.. an adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. We certainly wouldn't keep 500 1" goldfish in 10G of water yet that is what we are attempting to do with a single goldfish trying to raise it in only 10G of water. Each time a goldfish doubles it's length, it increases it's body mass by eight times... so a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" or 64 1" goldfish. An 8" goldfish is equal in body mass to eight 4", 64 2" or over 500 1" goldfish. Even a 55G with two goldfish isn't really enough water volume but it's 275% better than a single goldfish in 10G of water and it's 275% better for the juvi goldfish to grow out better. I've been keeping goldfish in ponds for a long time and more recently, two fancy goldfish in a 65G tank the past five years and believe me.. it simply cannot work long-term in 10G of water and will only cause the fish to be stunted and experience a much shorter lifespan and other health issues along the way. Even with only two fancy goldfish in my 65G, I have to do weekly PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance (alternating one filter every week so one stays fully cycled at all times) to keep the water quality where it should be.. and I have lots of live plants to further help water quality. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kolkri@... <mailto:kolkri%40gmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish While I agree more is better. 10 gallons per goldfish well work for a very long time. With proper filtration and water changes. But yes even allowing that much water some goldfish well still outgrow the tank. I have three goldfish that I have had for two years. Two oranda's and one fantail in a 30 gallon tank with 500 gph that have yet to stop growing and have never been sick. (knock on wood.) I do weekly 50% water changes. One of the filters is a canister that I only rinse out about once a month. The other is a HOB that I rinse out ever two weeks.   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 08/18/08 12:39:26 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish Hi Angie, While I agree with you on the overstocking, goldfish need much more than 10G of water each... contrary to the bad info that is out there in so many books online sites, etc. A single adult round-bodied goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. Considering that, you can see why they need more than 10G each. I have my own Goldfish Care Sheet on my blog which has many references showing these numbers. I recommend a minimum of a 55G tank for two juvenile round-bodied goldfish and even that will need frequent PWC s and filter maintenance. It's especially important to give them lots of fresh water during their juvenile stage so they do not get stunted. Once they reach adult size, stunting isn't an issue but water quality still needs to be kept up with. If someone wants to have a goldfish tank that only requires bi-weekly or monthly maintenance, then they would need at least 75G to 100G per goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kolkri@... <mailto:kolkri%40gmail.com> <mailto:kolkri%40gmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish First you are over stocked. Goldfish need 10 gallons of water each. Also what is your filtration? Goldfish need 10xGPH. Messy messy fish. Lol I would get a tank for the tropical's to have for themselves they well not do well with the cooler water goldfish need and they need different food then your goldfish. Moving them well also help get you closer to the amount of water each goldfish needs and with larger weekly water changes they should be ok with the shortage of 5 gallons. I would do daily water changes or more till all levels are back to normal. Good Luck   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message------- From: james Date: 8/18/2008 11:14:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish HELP ME my fish are sick and i don know what happened. I have a 55 gallon tank with 6 4yr old gold fish a blue gramie and some guppies. My gold fish are turnning red around the fins. I tested the water the nitroite was high so i changed the 25% water and added the meds. that the store would said would work,and nothing! How long till i see results and what else can i do?? I really love my fish as do my kids i just want to save them,any suggestions would help _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 6:18:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29292	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem

OK.. I think you might need to add more water to your sump as it starts to empty, when you first turn on your pump, to fill up the available water volume in your plumbing. Once you have it running and the plumbing volume is filled up also, then the returning water will keep the sump filled. Here's something I worked on when considering a 10G sump under my 65G tank also using an overflow box on my main tank. I was going to just use one of my canister filters to pump the water back up to the main tank but I was always worried about what might happen if the overflow box lost it's siphon. So I was going to adjust the water level in the 65G so that I had a couple of gallons cushion and then have the intake of the canister about 2" to 3" down in the 10G so that if the overflow lost the siphon and quit filling the 10G, then as soon as the level in the 10G got below the intake of the canister, it would quit pumping water up to the main tank which would keep the main tank from overflowing. I was also going to put a cut-off switch in the 10G so that if the water volume got below that 2" to 3" level, it would turn off the canister so I didn't burn it up running it dry. This is something you might also consider since you will be adding several more total gallons of water to your system when you fill up the plumbing also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wet dry filter problem thanks. the water does eventualy return as quick as it is pumped, it just takes a good 15 seconds to do so, and by then the pump is sucking air. It could actually take a lot more water because i poured a bucket right into skimmer and it took it no problem. I have a box on inside and outside to keep a constant siphon over tank and then 1 1/2 going down to filter. I'm really starting to think i need a bigger sump to give me that extra few seconds i need to complete the circuit, but space is a problem. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Your returning water should be flowing in as fast as the water is being > pumped out. I'm not sure a larger sump would make a difference although it > would give you a little more margin of error but it eventually would lose > the water-flow battle also if the water isn't returning at the same rate as > it's being pumped out. I'm not sure that clamping down the hose is good as > that will just make your pump work harder so you have to rethink your return > to make sure it can handle the volume. Is your tank drilled/plumbed for a > sump system or do you have an overflow box on the tank? You might have to > go with a smaller pump if you can't increase the returning flow rate... > depending on which would be most cost effective. > > Which site did you use for your plans... or did you come up with your own? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] wet dry filter problem > > Hi, I made my own wet dry filter and it came out very well except for one > thing. The Eheim 1200 pumps the water out quicker than it trickles back. I > had to put a hose clamp on the line to slow the flow down to half. Its NOT > that the return line is too small (1 1/2" pvc) because i've poured water > into the skimmer and it takes it quickly. Its NOT that the water is slowed > in the medium because its not backing up and i had same problem with no > medium. > I think it just might be that my sump is too small, but i hace a space > problem in cabinet. > Has anyone had this problem? > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 6:29:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29293	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem

Why would you turn the pump off.. unless you mean when you are about to do maintenance? My previous reply went into the same thing as you are thinking about here. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wet dry filter problem sorry i didn't see rest of your relpy. Last year i read every message and site i could and designed my own. I'm using a stacking plactic storage system on top of a tupperware type sump. Except for the one problem i have, its pretty cool and I will post pics when its done, the external skimmer is built into a half wall and all the pipes are hidden in wall. I think to test to see if I need a bigger sump, I'm going to fill the filter to the brim once the trickling is in full effect and see how the flow goes when i crank up filter. As long as i remove the same amount of water before I turn pump off!! LOL --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Your returning water should be flowing in as fast as the water is being > pumped out. I'm not sure a larger sump would make a difference although it > would give you a little more margin of error but it eventually would lose > the water-flow battle also if the water isn't returning at the same rate as > it's being pumped out. I'm not sure that clamping down the hose is good as > that will just make your pump work harder so you have to rethink your return > to make sure it can handle the volume. Is your tank drilled/plumbed for a > sump system or do you have an overflow box on the tank? You might have to > go with a smaller pump if you can't increase the returning flow rate... > depending on which would be most cost effective. > > Which site did you use for your plans... or did you come up with your own? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] wet dry filter problem > > Hi, I made my own wet dry filter and it came out very well except for one > thing. The Eheim 1200 pumps the water out quicker than it trickles back. I > had to put a hose clamp on the line to slow the flow down to half. Its NOT > that the return line is too small (1 1/2" pvc) because i've poured water > into the skimmer and it takes it quickly. Its NOT that the water is slowed > in the medium because its not backing up and i had same problem with no > medium. > I think it just might be that my sump is too small, but i hace a space > problem in cabinet. > Has anyone had this problem? > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 6:31:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29294	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: frogs :ok , i wouldnt put in with fish thin..........

where did u get ur frog ??????? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, allie1068@... wrote: > > Just so you know the grow a frogs are claud frogs. (I had one) they get huge and eat any fish thatll fit in its huge mouth. Mine got 8 inches accross and ate everthing in my tank! > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@...> > > Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 18:50:29 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] frogs : > > > i want some for aquariums & maybe out side pond. > where can get them cheap. > > > someone gave me this link here : > > http://www.growafrog.com > > > can these be put in large aquariums ?? > > > > > > http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish { this a link with some > fish i wanna add frogs to, maybe > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29295	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish

wonder who thought this up , 10 galloons per fish. my are n 5, and 4 galloon , please smaller tanks, with very few problems. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm glad you brought up your "rule of thumb" as the "10G per goldfish rule" is actually based on the fish-killing "one inch per gallon rule" which simply doesn't work for any fish that get over 3" as adults. It's an OK guideline for smaller fish that stay under 3" as adults but it simply cannot work for medium to large sized fish. A 10" goldfish cannot live in a 10G tank. A 15" Oscar cannot live in a 15G tank. A 36" Koi cannot live in a 36G tank. You can stick to it all you want and LOL all you want... but your fish will definitely suffer and I know you don't really want that... but I'm sure you'll do what you want. > > Further... how would you know if your fish are stunted or not unless you compared their growth in a proper sized tank versus being overstocked or in an undersized tank? In a proper sized tank, your three two year old fancy goldfish would be 5"-6" in body length. > > It's not just my thoughts about this.. fish stunting caused by hormonal overload due to overstocking issues and undersized tanks is based on scientific evidence done for the fisheries industry and has been replicated by hobbyists over the years. You can do a Google Scholar search to read all of the scientific reports and you can also read over my goldfish care sheet where I reference many articles. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kolkri@... > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 5:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish > > LOL Thanks for the warning. Stunting is not an issue with my fish that is for sure. Think Ill stick to my rule of thumb. > >   > Angie and the Gang > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 8/18/2008 4:28:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish > > The only reason that 10G seems to work is that the goldfish get stunted so they do not grow as much as they should. Goldfish should reach 90% of their full size in the first 1-3 years and they'll grow bigger/faster in a larger volume of water with good water quality. That is why it's so important to provide them with adequate water volume while they are still small.. so they can reach full size. That simply can't happen in only 10G of water per goldfish. I've never seen an adult goldfish reach full size in 10G of water nor one that lived a full, healthy life in only 10G of water... nor one that lived a full lifespan of 10+ years for fancy and 20+ years for long-bodied goldfish in only 10G of water.. it simply isn't a good thing to do. It's not good for the fish and it's a major chore for the hobbyist instead of it being fun. I've seen far too many people (thousands) posting in forums like this one when their goldfish are getting sick and/or dying and it's almost always due to the same thing... being in an undersized tank, being overstocked and/or poor water quality. > > As I stated earlier.. an adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. We certainly wouldn't keep 500 1" goldfish in 10G of water yet that is what we are attempting to do with a single goldfish trying to raise it in only 10G of water. Each time a goldfish doubles it's length, it increases it's body mass by eight times... so a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" or 64 1" goldfish. > An 8" goldfish is equal in body mass to eight 4", 64 2" or over 500 1" > goldfish. > > Even a 55G with two goldfish isn't really enough water volume but it's 275% better than a single goldfish in 10G of water and it's 275% better for the juvi goldfish to grow out better. I've been keeping goldfish in ponds for a long time and more recently, two fancy goldfish in a 65G tank the past five years and believe me.. it simply cannot work long-term in 10G of water and will only cause the fish to be stunted and experience a much shorter lifespan and other health issues along the way. > > Even with only two fancy goldfish in my 65G, I have to do weekly PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance (alternating one filter every week so one stays fully cycled at all times) to keep the water quality where it should be.. and I have lots of live plants to further help water quality. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kolkri@... <mailto:kolkri%40gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish > > While I agree more is better. 10 gallons per goldfish well work for a very long time. With proper filtration and water changes. > But yes even allowing that much water some goldfish well still outgrow the tank. > I have three goldfish that I have had for two years. Two oranda's and one fantail in a 30 gallon tank with 500 gph that have yet to stop growing and have never been sick. (knock on wood.) I do weekly 50% water changes. > One of the filters is a canister that I only rinse out about once a month. > The other is a HOB that I rinse out ever two weeks. >   > Angie and the Gang > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 08/18/08 12:39:26 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish > > Hi Angie, > > While I agree with you on the overstocking, goldfish need much more than 10G of water each... contrary to the bad info that is out there in so many books online sites, etc. A single adult round-bodied goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. Considering that, you can see why they need more than 10G each. I have my own Goldfish Care Sheet on my blog which has many references showing these numbers. I recommend a minimum of a 55G tank for two juvenile round-bodied goldfish and even that will need frequent PWC s and filter maintenance. It's especially important to give them lots of fresh water during their juvenile stage so they do not get stunted. Once they reach adult size, stunting isn't an issue but water quality still needs to be kept up with. > > If someone wants to have a goldfish tank that only requires bi- weekly or monthly maintenance, then they would need at least 75G to 100G per goldfish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kolkri@... <mailto:kolkri%40gmail.com> <mailto:kolkri% 40gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:25 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish > > First you are over stocked. Goldfish need 10 gallons of water each. > Also what is your filtration? Goldfish need 10xGPH. Messy messy fish. Lol I would get a tank for the tropical's to have for themselves they well not do well with the cooler water goldfish need and they need different food then your goldfish. Moving them well also help get you closer to the amount of water each goldfish needs and with larger weekly water changes they should be ok with the shortage of 5 gallons. > I would do daily water changes or more till all levels are back to normal. > Good Luck >   > Angie and the Gang > > -------Original Message------- > > From: james > Date: 8/18/2008 11:14:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish > > HELP ME my fish are sick and i don know what happened. I have a 55 gallon tank with 6 4yr old gold fish a blue gramie and some guppies. My gold fish are turnning red around the fins. I tested the water the nitroite was high so i changed the 25% water and added the meds. that the store would said would work,and nothing! How long till i see results and what else can i do?? > I really love my fish as do my kids i just want to save them,any suggestions would help > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 > Tested on: 8/18/2008 6:18:01 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29296	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish

We're talking about goldfish.. not just any fish. Goldfish are BIG fish. Common goldfish grow to 18" to 24", comets grow to 12" to 15" and round-bodied fancies grow to 6" to 8" but they still have the same body mass as a 12" goldfish except they are rounder rather than longer... but still the same exact species. Fancy goldfish should live for 10+ years and long-bodied goldfish should live for 20+ years. None of these fish should be kept in small tanks and especially NOT in a so-called "Goldfish Bowl". 5G and 4G tanks are OK for fish like a single male Betta and some of the really small tropical fish but not much more. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 8:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP my fish wonder who thought this up , 10 galloons per fish. my are n 5, and 4 galloon , please smaller tanks, with very few problems. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm glad you brought up your "rule of thumb" as the "10G per goldfish rule" is actually based on the fish-killing "one inch per gallon rule" which simply doesn't work for any fish that get over 3" as adults. It's an OK guideline for smaller fish that stay under 3" as adults but it simply cannot work for medium to large sized fish. A 10" goldfish cannot live in a 10G tank. A 15" Oscar cannot live in a 15G tank. A 36" Koi cannot live in a 36G tank. You can stick to it all you want and LOL all you want... but your fish will definitely suffer and I know you don't really want that... but I'm sure you'll do what you want. > > Further... how would you know if your fish are stunted or not unless you compared their growth in a proper sized tank versus being overstocked or in an undersized tank? In a proper sized tank, your three two year old fancy goldfish would be 5"-6" in body length. > > It's not just my thoughts about this.. fish stunting caused by hormonal overload due to overstocking issues and undersized tanks is based on scientific evidence done for the fisheries industry and has been replicated by hobbyists over the years. You can do a Google Scholar search to read all of the scientific reports and you can also read over my goldfish care sheet where I reference many articles. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kolkri@... > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 5:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish > > LOL Thanks for the warning. Stunting is not an issue with my fish that is for sure. Think Ill stick to my rule of thumb. > >   > Angie and the Gang > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 8/18/2008 4:28:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish > > The only reason that 10G seems to work is that the goldfish get stunted so they do not grow as much as they should. Goldfish should reach 90% of their full size in the first 1-3 years and they'll grow bigger/faster in a larger volume of water with good water quality. That is why it's so important to provide them with adequate water volume while they are still small.. so they can reach full size. That simply can't happen in only 10G of water per goldfish. I've never seen an adult goldfish reach full size in 10G of water nor one that lived a full, healthy life in only 10G of water... nor one that lived a full lifespan of 10+ years for fancy and 20+ years for long-bodied goldfish in only 10G of water.. it simply isn't a good thing to do. It's not good for the fish and it's a major chore for the hobbyist instead of it being fun. I've seen far too many people (thousands) posting in forums like this one when their goldfish are getting sick and/or dying and it's almost always due to the same thing... being in an undersized tank, being overstocked and/or poor water quality. > > As I stated earlier.. an adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. We certainly wouldn't keep 500 1" goldfish in 10G of water yet that is what we are attempting to do with a single goldfish trying to raise it in only 10G of water. Each time a goldfish doubles it's length, it increases it's body mass by eight times... so a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" or 64 1" goldfish. > An 8" goldfish is equal in body mass to eight 4", 64 2" or over 500 1" > goldfish. > > Even a 55G with two goldfish isn't really enough water volume but it's 275% better than a single goldfish in 10G of water and it's 275% better for the juvi goldfish to grow out better. I've been keeping goldfish in ponds for a long time and more recently, two fancy goldfish in a 65G tank the past five years and believe me.. it simply cannot work long-term in 10G of water and will only cause the fish to be stunted and experience a much shorter lifespan and other health issues along the way. > > Even with only two fancy goldfish in my 65G, I have to do weekly PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance (alternating one filter every week so one stays fully cycled at all times) to keep the water quality where it should be.. and I have lots of live plants to further help water quality. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kolkri@... <mailto:kolkri%40gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish > > While I agree more is better. 10 gallons per goldfish well work for a very long time. With proper filtration and water changes. > But yes even allowing that much water some goldfish well still outgrow the tank. > I have three goldfish that I have had for two years. Two oranda's and one fantail in a 30 gallon tank with 500 gph that have yet to stop growing and have never been sick. (knock on wood.) I do weekly 50% water changes. > One of the filters is a canister that I only rinse out about once a month. > The other is a HOB that I rinse out ever two weeks. >   > Angie and the Gang > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 08/18/08 12:39:26 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish > > Hi Angie, > > While I agree with you on the overstocking, goldfish need much more than 10G of water each... contrary to the bad info that is out there in so many books online sites, etc. A single adult round-bodied goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. Considering that, you can see why they need more than 10G each. I have my own Goldfish Care Sheet on my blog which has many references showing these numbers. I recommend a minimum of a 55G tank for two juvenile round-bodied goldfish and even that will need frequent PWC s and filter maintenance. It's especially important to give them lots of fresh water during their juvenile stage so they do not get stunted. Once they reach adult size, stunting isn't an issue but water quality still needs to be kept up with. > > If someone wants to have a goldfish tank that only requires bi- weekly or monthly maintenance, then they would need at least 75G to 100G per goldfish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kolkri@... <mailto:kolkri%40gmail.com> <mailto:kolkri% 40gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:25 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish > > First you are over stocked. Goldfish need 10 gallons of water each. > Also what is your filtration? Goldfish need 10xGPH. Messy messy fish. Lol I would get a tank for the tropical's to have for themselves they well not do well with the cooler water goldfish need and they need different food then your goldfish. Moving them well also help get you closer to the amount of water each goldfish needs and with larger weekly water changes they should be ok with the shortage of 5 gallons. > I would do daily water changes or more till all levels are back to normal. > Good Luck >   > Angie and the Gang > > -------Original Message------- > > From: james > Date: 8/18/2008 11:14:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish > > HELP ME my fish are sick and i don know what happened. I have a 55 gallon tank with 6 4yr old gold fish a blue gramie and some guppies. My gold fish are turnning red around the fins. I tested the water the nitroite was high so i changed the 25% water and added the meds. that the store would said would work,and nothing! How long till i see results and what else can i do?? > I really love my fish as do my kids i just want to save them,any suggestions would help > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 8:13:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29297	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Lenny! Thanks so much for those Snail links! They were very helpful. Correction, my other Tetra does have some black on his body, I've attached a pic or two, not so great from my phone. Maybe you can tell what kind of fish this is? Thanks :-) Tania + Fids

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29298	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

You can't send photos through the group. You can either upload them to the groups photo page or to your own photo hosting site... Flickr is the one from Yahoo... or one of the many other photo hosting sites. Blackberry probably has a way to provide a link to pics you take with the Blackberry. I'm certainly not a fish ID expert but I'm sure one of our thousands of members will be able to ID it if you provide a link to the picture. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 7:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Lenny! Thanks so much for those Snail links! They were very helpful. Correction, my other Tetra does have some black on his body, I've attached a pic or two, not so great from my phone. Maybe you can tell what kind of fish this is? Thanks :-) Tania + Fids _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 8:23:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29299	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Ok super, ill try to get it up soon. I've tried from my phone before to post stuff on Yahoo without success so ill get to it soon. I'm in FL where we are weathering a storm. Thanks for your help. :-) Tania + fids Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:23:32 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions You can't send photos through the group. You can either upload them to the groups photo page or to your own photo hosting site... Flickr is the one from Yahoo... or one of the many other photo hosting sites. Blackberry probably has a way to provide a link to pics you take with the Blackberry. I'm certainly not a fish ID expert but I'm sure one of our thousands of members will be able to ID it if you provide a link to the picture. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 7:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Lenny! Thanks so much for those Snail links! They were very helpful. Correction, my other Tetra does have some black on his body, I've attached a pic or two, not so great from my phone. Maybe you can tell what kind of fish this is? Thanks :-) Tania + Fids _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 8:23:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29300	From: ~¤Heather¤~	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: OT RE: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & quest

I can't upload photos from my blackjack either unless its a site that has mobile capabilties and you can email or text the pics to add them. Which are far and few between...lol. Welcome to the group. Heather -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Ok super, ill try to get it up soon. I've tried from my phone before to post stuff on Yahoo without success so ill get to it soon. I'm in FL where we are weathering a storm. Thanks for your help. :-) Tania + fids Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:23:32 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions You can't send photos through the group. You can either upload them to the groups photo page or to your own photo hosting site... Flickr is the one from Yahoo... or one of the many other photo hosting sites. Blackberry probably has a way to provide a link to pics you take with the Blackberry. I'm certainly not a fish ID expert but I'm sure one of our thousands of members will be able to ID it if you provide a link to the picture. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 7:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Lenny! Thanks so much for those Snail links! They were very helpful. Correction, my other Tetra does have some black on his body, I've attached a pic or two, not so great from my phone. Maybe you can tell what kind of fish this is? Thanks :-) Tania + Fids _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 8:23:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29301	From: mike	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem

if i start the pump with a full sump and then add more water, if the power went out all the added water would overflow from the sump. My siphon never breaks because the ends are always under water of the interior and exterior box. I tried my test by taking out the trickle tower and found that my problem is a weak siphon. This is not due to lack of hose, i have 4 hoses with 1 inch interior diameter. i think the problem is my small interior box not letting the water out of the siphon hose to flow up over the end of pipe to pump. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Why would you turn the pump off.. unless you mean when you are about to do > maintenance? My previous reply went into the same thing as you are thinking > about here. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 5:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wet dry filter problem > > sorry i didn't see rest of your relpy. Last year i read every message and > site i could and designed my own. I'm using a stacking plactic storage > system on top of a tupperware type sump. Except for the one problem i have, > its pretty cool and I will post pics when its done, the external skimmer is > built into a half wall and all the pipes are hidden in wall. > > I think to test to see if I need a bigger sump, I'm going to fill the filter > to the brim once the trickling is in full effect and see how the flow goes > when i crank up filter. As long as i remove the same amount of water before > I turn pump off!! LOL > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Your returning water should be flowing in as fast as the water is > being > > pumped out. I'm not sure a larger sump would make a difference > although it > > would give you a little more margin of error but it eventually > would lose > > the water-flow battle also if the water isn't returning at the same > rate as > > it's being pumped out. I'm not sure that clamping down the hose is > good as > > that will just make your pump work harder so you have to rethink > your return > > to make sure it can handle the volume. Is your tank > drilled/plumbed for a > > sump system or do you have an overflow box on the tank? You might > have to > > go with a smaller pump if you can't increase the returning flow > rate... > > depending on which would be most cost effective. > > > > Which site did you use for your plans... or did you come up with > your own? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of mike > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] wet dry filter problem > > > > Hi, I made my own wet dry filter and it came out very well except > for one > > thing. The Eheim 1200 pumps the water out quicker than it trickles > back. I > > had to put a hose clamp on the line to slow the flow down to half. > Its NOT > > that the return line is too small (1 1/2" pvc) because i've poured > water > > into the skimmer and it takes it quickly. Its NOT that the water is > slowed > > in the medium because its not backing up and i had same problem > with no > > medium. > > I think it just might be that my sump is too small, but i hace a > space > > problem in cabinet. > > Has anyone had this problem? > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 > Tested on: 8/18/2008 6:31:37 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29302	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem

That is one of the things I was talking about. In the event of a power failure, you want your overflow box to lose it's siphon after pumping the top 1/2" to 1" of water out of the main tank so the sump should have enough of a margin of error to handle these few gallons. You can also add a float valve cut off switch to the sump which would cut the power to the pump if the water level reaches near the top of the sump. Then with the intake to the sump pump being only an inch or two below the surface, if you lose siphon for some reason, the pump will quit filling the main tank when the water level drops below the intake. Once again, a float valve cut off switch would stop the pump from running dry and an anti siphon valve in the plumbing would stop the water from the plumbing from draining back into the sump also. Here is the overflow box I was planning on with a 300gph rating to go with my canister filter as the pump. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=CR1511 This one seems to have the filter/pump electrical cut off switch built in if it loses it's siphon. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~OE1318.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 8:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wet dry filter problem if i start the pump with a full sump and then add more water, if the power went out all the added water would overflow from the sump. My siphon never breaks because the ends are always under water of the interior and exterior box. I tried my test by taking out the trickle tower and found that my problem is a weak siphon. This is not due to lack of hose, i have 4 hoses with 1 inch interior diameter. i think the problem is my small interior box not letting the water out of the siphon hose to flow up over the end of pipe to pump. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Why would you turn the pump off.. unless you mean when you are about to do > maintenance? My previous reply went into the same thing as you are thinking > about here. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 5:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wet dry filter problem > > sorry i didn't see rest of your relpy. Last year i read every message and > site i could and designed my own. I'm using a stacking plactic storage > system on top of a tupperware type sump. Except for the one problem i have, > its pretty cool and I will post pics when its done, the external skimmer is > built into a half wall and all the pipes are hidden in wall. > > I think to test to see if I need a bigger sump, I'm going to fill the filter > to the brim once the trickling is in full effect and see how the flow goes > when i crank up filter. As long as i remove the same amount of water before > I turn pump off!! LOL > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Your returning water should be flowing in as fast as the water is > being > > pumped out. I'm not sure a larger sump would make a difference > although it > > would give you a little more margin of error but it eventually > would lose > > the water-flow battle also if the water isn't returning at the same > rate as > > it's being pumped out. I'm not sure that clamping down the hose is > good as > > that will just make your pump work harder so you have to rethink > your return > > to make sure it can handle the volume. Is your tank > drilled/plumbed for a > > sump system or do you have an overflow box on the tank? You might > have to > > go with a smaller pump if you can't increase the returning flow > rate... > > depending on which would be most cost effective. > > > > Which site did you use for your plans... or did you come up with > your own? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of mike > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] wet dry filter problem > > > > Hi, I made my own wet dry filter and it came out very well except > for one > > thing. The Eheim 1200 pumps the water out quicker than it trickles > back. I > > had to put a hose clamp on the line to slow the flow down to half. > Its NOT > > that the return line is too small (1 1/2" pvc) because i've poured > water > > into the skimmer and it takes it quickly. Its NOT that the water is > slowed > > in the medium because its not backing up and i had same problem > with no > > medium. > > I think it just might be that my sump is too small, but i hace a > space > > problem in cabinet. > > Has anyone had this problem? > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 9:23:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29303	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP my fish

The red around the fins, and subsequent streaking read in the fins (which you do not mention) is normally cause by poor water quality, normally high in nitrogen compounds. There is no medication that will resolve this issue for you. You need to improve the water quality. The first step should be to get some of those fish out of that tank into another tank or tanks. Whether you get a couple more 55's or larger tanks, for the goldfish, and something like a 30 for the other fish, or find new homes for four of the goldfish and the other fish in the tank will be up to you, but you definitely need less fish per gallon than you have now. As has been mentioned, get yourself some test kits--and use them. At a minimum, you need pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate kits. You pH will be what it is. Compare it with your tap water fresh from the faucet and tap water that has been left to sit for 24 hours to get a good idea of what your water's pH really is. If your tank pH is much lower or higher than your tap water, you will need to determine why that is. Ammonia should be 0, nitrites should also be 0. Nitrates is a different story. They could be anywhere from 0-150 ppm. It is best to aim for the lower end, but don't freak if you are over 20 ppm, as I have seen people here do, as well as in other lists and websites, etc. across the 'Net. (If you are a marine aquarist, nitrate measurements are a whole different story.) Water changes and plants help maintain the level of nitrates. There are many other compounds that fish produce and put into the water. We do not have measurements (well, there are ways to measure them, but for the normal person, they are way too expensive). The only way we have to control these are water changes. They affect fish in different ways. There is a hormone that fish release that stunts growth in fish. There are pheromones with different meanings to them, but in a tank situation, they just serve to stress all the fish in the tank. And so it goes. 25% daily water changes has been suggested as a remedial course of action. I would like to differ with this, since we do not know what your tank pH is and how it compares with what comes out of the tap. If the difference is large. More than 0.5, you might want to take it easy on the water changes until the pH of the tank comes closer to the pH of your tap water. Once this has been achieved, go with the larger water changes until everything has been stabilized. Your filter probably needs a thorough cleaning, and the use of activated carbon appears o be called for in this situation. It will help to remove many of the compounds now in your water. As water conditions improve, and the looks of your fish improve, the amount of carbon used can be cut back. After your initial cleaning, the media will need to be changed every few days until things settle down. If you are not using a biowheel, now may be a very good time to start. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of james Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 10:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP my fish HELP ME my fish are sick and i don know what happened. I have a 55 gallon tank with 6 4yr old gold fish a blue gramie and some guppies. My gold fish are turnning red around the fins. I tested the water the nitroite was high so i changed the 25% water and added the meds. that the store would said would work,and nothing! How long till i see results and what else can i do?? I really love my fish as do my kids i just want to save them,any suggestions would help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29304	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/18/2008
Subject: Re: Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!!

On the MSDS, it is called CAJEPUT OIL. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 2:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! Does the MSDS sheet happen to say what is in melafix? People on these lists have been saying it's the ideal thing for a number of situations. But I looked at some in the store today, and all it says about what it contains is tea tree oil. I too wonder if it can really be that good. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! The salt is the antiseptic in this case. Addition of medications willy-nilly is not good practice. The microbes being found in humans and animals now are more virulent than they have been in the past. This means that we need to discover and develop drugs that are effective against them. This increase is largely due to the misuse of the drugs that have been available in the past as well as currently. It is best to see what, if anything, develops and then to treat for that. As for the Melafix, it proponents are like evangelists preaching the next coming of the Christ. The web is full of stories about the wondrous properties of Melafix. The web is also rife with stories about how things have gone very wrong with the use of Melafix. I've not seen any work about the real efficacy of Melafix, nor did the search I did tonight come up with any before I quit looking (after the fifth page of results). On the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals site, no evidence is given for the claimed efficacy, but, there is an MSDS sheet available, and this stuff, in a high enough concentration, is not good at all for humans. Here are the first few lines of the MSDS: PRODUCT NAME MELA-FIX STATEMENT OF HAZARDOUS NATURE CONSIDERED A HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE ACCORDING TO OSHA 29 CFR 1910.1200. Do note that the last two lines are printed in red. And here is some more for those who are handling the product about protection you should have: PERSONAL PROTECTION EYE - Safety glasses with side shields - Chemical goggles. - Contact lenses pose a special hazard; soft lenses may absorb irritants and all lenses concentrate them. HANDS/FEET Wear chemical protective gloves, eg. PVC. Wear safety footwear or safety gumboots, eg. Rubber. OTHER - Overalls. - P.V.C. apron. - Barrier cream. - Skin cleansing cream. - Eye wash unit. RESPIRATOR Selection of the Class and Type of respirator will depend upon the level of breathing zone contaminant and the chemical nature of the contaminant. Protection Factors (defined as the ratio of contaminant outside and inside the mask) may also be important. Breathing Zone Maximum Protection Half-face Full-Face Level ppm (volume) Factor Respirator Respirator 1000 10 A-1 - 1000 50 - A-1 5000 50 Airline* - 5000 100 - A-2 10000 100 - A-3 100+ Airline* * * - Continuous Flow ** - Continuous-flow or positive pressure demand. The local concentration of material, quantity and conditions of use determine the type of personal protective equipment required. [NOTE: page break here, from which I cut out all irrelevant text] Section 8 - Test EXPOSURE CONTROLS / PERSONAL PROTECTION Use appropriate NIOSH-certified respirator based on informed professional judgement. In conditions where no reasonable estimate of exposure can be made, assume the exposure is in a concentration IDLH and use NIOSH-certified full face pressure demand SCBA with a minimum service life of 30 minutes, or a combination full facepiece pressure demand SAR with auxiliary self-contained air supply. Respirators provided only for escape from IDLH atmospheres shall be NIOSH-certified for escape from the atmosphere in which they will be used. ENGINEERING CONTROLS General exhaust is adequate under normal operating conditions. If risk of overexposure exists, wear an approved respirator. Correct fit is essential to obtain adequate protection. Provide adequate ventilation in warehouse or closed storage areas. Now, I am not going to stop you, or anyone, from using it, but, until I see some evidence, and not anecdotal evidence, about its efficacy, I'm am not going to use it nor am I recommending it to anyone else. FWIW, after your diatribes against Tim Hovenac and his product, I'd think you wouldn't be touching the stuff with a ten foot pole either. It would remain sitting on the store shelf right next to Dr. Tim's magical cycling potion as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 4:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! I can see why Steve would suggest that But when did you ever injure yourself badly and not apply some sort of antiseptic/ antibiotic? Moreover, just who is going to properly identify a problem? If you can anticipate massive infection it's generally better to prevent it. I think melafix is relatively mild. You can always use a stronger antibiotic if more problems develop. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:32 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Advice In a Hurry!..Goldfish attempted Finding Nemo!! You have done the right thing. Now, just watch his recovery. You may need to treat for developing fungus, or something else, as the time goes by, but don't stock up on any medication until there is a problem and it has been properly identified. I am hopeful for recovery, but I also would not be surprised if you lost the fish. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29305	From: Blue fish	Date: 8/19/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Latest Blog News ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40435B53464A425A445146445A515F49 ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C40435B53464A425A445146445A515F49 Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C40435B53464A425A445146445A515F4C Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29306	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Dear Group Members, Can anyone identify my mystery fish? I think its some kind of Tetra. Thanks in advance, here's a link: http://journals.aol.com/fitprota/PetsPetsPets/ Lenny, I'm looking fwd to hearing your advice about my set up and stocking. Snail update: the two blondes are looking ok, the dark one with a hole is now oozing something and smelling a bit funky, but still alive. I don't think any have eaten in the last couple of days though:-( they are all in a hospital tank. Hope all is well with every one! Cheers, Tania + the Fids Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:40:49 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Here's the links for the snails. Foods - http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 Shell Repair (part of the Disease page) - http://www.applesnail.net/content/various/snail_disease.php and more particularly here... http://members.shaw.ca/the-guyz/snail_plaster_experiment.htm I'll look over the rest of your email when I get back home later. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 3:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Hello Lenny and thanks for the advice. I really appreciate your help. I went to the Applesnail site and did not find any article for repairing the shell or on high calcium foods for them. Nor did it give me much help at all on knowing what to do or what the survival chances are. Is there any other site with that info? I did read an article I found on Google that said the hole could possibly be repaired with crazy glue and egg shell, but chances are the snail would eventually die. I would like to try that if I see my snail is still alive in a day or two. Also I wanted to treat his wound for infection, not sure if the Fish Protector I used will help. I realize now I made a huge mistake by using the Quick Cure remedy as it is not for invertebrates. My 3 snailsreceived 2 days worth of this medication. I have now taken them out from that tank and put them in the other with some fish Kordon Fish Protector, it is a destresser which has B12 and Echinacea. The three are not looking good today, very little movement and I don't think they're eating. I am thinking I may remove them all together and put them in their own hospital tank, no pump or filter, as I read they can survive ok in there for long periods. I asked a Sea Monkey expert and they told me that Sea Monkeys are a Hybrid of the Brine shrimp, as they live in fresh, not salt water. Yes it's possible my Betta ate too many dead ones or just simply over ate. He was so happy eating them though! How sad :-( RIP Chi Chi * As for my stock, here goes, I'm no expert and I can't remember some of the names, but I will try, they're all from Petsmart as of now: - 2 Neon Tetras - 1 Tetra of another type, looks like a Harlequin Rasbora, but has longer fins and no black on the body from Petsmart - 1 Siamese Algae Eater (I think or it looks like this one) - 1 Albino Algae Eater - 1 Gourami - 9 Ghost Shrimp, 2 are Preggo - 4 African Dwarf Frogs - 3 Mystery Snail(that's what Petsmart calls them), 2 Gold and 1 Black (the one with the hole in his shell) - 5 Female Bettas - 5 Baby Mystery Fish, they came with the Shrimp, maybe Guppies, can't tell yet, they're tiny * As for which fish are in which tank, I switch them around sometimes, but here's what it looks like today. 10 Gallon Tank: - 3 Snails - 5 Baby Fish - 9 Ghost Shrimp -2 Neon Tetra - 1other Tetra 27 Gallon Coffee table (can hold up to about 40 or moreGallons if needed): - 1 Gourami - 5 Female Bettas - 2 Algae Eaters - 4 African Dwarf Frogs In overlooking this, I can see that my 10 Gallon is over crowded so I will plan to move some of the Ghost Shrimp to the Coffee Table tank. I'm a little worried about the Bettas eating them though. What would be your recommendations as to my stocking for long term? I was also thinking about getting a German Ram fish. Would it be compatible? Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers, Tania and the fids Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:26:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Go to http://www.Applesnail.net <http://www.Applesnail.net> forums for the best help on your snail. I know they have an article on repairing a snail shell but you may also want to get some first hand info on treating the potential flesh wound before doing a shell repair. I haven't been following them much lately since I haven't had any since Hurricane Katrina. Also, while at the Applesnail site, check out their articles on high calcium foods to feed your snails. Sea-Monkeys are simply brine shrimp. They are one and the same. The very small amount of salt that is in a brine shrimp will not likely kill a fish so maybe you are overfeeding or maybe too many dead brine shrimp in the mix... or maybe attack of the toddler again! ;-) What kind of "algae eaters" do you have? There are literally hundreds or maybe even thousands of fish that are called algae eaters so you need to find out what species you have. What kind of tetras do you have? Some stay quite small while others get quite large. Which fish/frogs do you have in which tank? Looking over your list of fish/critters and using the smallest of species for each unidentified species, I'm not sure if they will all work out long-term in your two tanks so you may need to rethink your stocking plans for long-term success. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Tania Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Hello everyone! I'm Tania. Nice to make everyone's aquaintance. I am sorta new at fishkeeping and learning from my mistakes sadly. Among my pets (finned, furry & feathered) I have two aquariums, both freshwater. One is a Coffetable tank, holding about 27 Gallons and the other a 10 Gallon. Residents are(listed, but not all housed together): 3 Mystery Snails (one is severely injured, need advice), 3 Tetras, 6 Ghost Shrimp, 5 Female Bettas(my last and Fave male died today :-(, think it was my fault, I'll explain), 4 African Dwarf Frogs, 3 Algae Eaters & 1 Gourami. I think that's everybody. First problem, my toddler, took out my black Mystery snail and threw him, he was playing catch. Unfortunately, my poor snail suffered a bad break in his shell near the tip of the cone, on the second ring. It is a hole and his flesh is exposed. I have put Quick Cure in the water yesterday and today. He's still alive, but I'm not sure if he can survive this. Today, it looked like the flesh that is exposed had some kind of white, crackly looking stuff on it, maybe and infection, I am no expert so I am guessing. However, he's still moving around at least. I have put in some spinach leaves and some cuttle bone for calcium, but other than that, what else can I do to help him survive and what are his chances? The other issue is my Betta, yesterday, I got my fish some live Brine shrimp and fed them all. It was primarily for my frogs since they like live food only, however, all my fish were feasting on these. They are saltwater Brine shrimp. I am guessing the salt was too much for my Betta who probably binged on them. He didn't want to eat today, I could tell something was wrong. I went out and by the time I got home, he was already dead. Very sad. I had originally bought real Seamonkeys and twice they died on me, I think they got too much morning sun exposure so I abandoned that effort and bough brine shrimp. Seems Sea Monkeys are not saltwater, but freshwater and that is the difference. Anybody have experience with Seamonkeys? If I continue to feed these saltwater brine shrimp, will it intoxicate any of my other fish or frogs? How many per fish is ok? Thank you all for your help in advance. Cheers, Tania & the pets _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 12:26:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 3:40:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 4:40:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29307	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Serpae Tetra -- a member if the Callistus Group. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29308	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

looks like a Serpae tetra Enid Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says.... SHIT, She's awake! **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29309	From: Chris	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Introducing myself

Hello everyone! I'm newbie looking to learn as much as I can about fish keeping. I've had tanks before in the past (when I was a child), but wasn't successful at them. I want to do it right and would appreciate any websites that could help me. I would really like websites that go beyond just the basics and actually teach the technical stuff. Your help would be appreciated! :) Thanks in advance! Chris

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29310	From: Chris	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Who here does aquaponics?

Aquaponics is one of the most interesting things (IMHO) you could learn. It involves circulating the tank water through a soil less growing medium to grow plants, and the plants use the nutrients in the water from the fish waste to grow and purify the water from the nitrates and phosphates in the water. Some grow veggies and some grow house plants. From what I understand fish are healthier with aquaponics. So who here does it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29311	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself

I might sprain my shoulder patting myself on the back but I have a page set up on my blog called "A to Z of Fish Keeping..." where you will find exactly that. Right near the top are links to two different free online fish keeping tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and get into the technical aspects to a certain degree. The biggest thing starting off that you need to learn and understand is the "The Nitrogen Cycle" works (ammonia>nitrite>nitrate) or more commonly referred to as cycling a tank. The tutorials above will go over this but I also have links to more detailed info on "Fishless Cycling" which is a way to prepare your tank and get your nitrogen cycle going without putting the fish through the arduous and sometimes deadly cycling process. There is also a product called Dr. Tim's One And Only which is a small bottle of the good nitrifying bacteria that you can add to your tank and then the tank will be nearly instantly cycled. Also read my blog article on "Establishing your tap water baseline" so you will know what your water is like.. soft or hard, low pH or high pH, lots of buffering or little buffering and how long does the buffering last, etc. Well.. enough for now as you'll have plenty of reading to do once you get to my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and also under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 8:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introducing myself Hello everyone! I'm newbie looking to learn as much as I can about fish keeping. I've had tanks before in the past (when I was a child), but wasn't successful at them. I want to do it right and would appreciate any websites that could help me. I would really like websites that go beyond just the basics and actually teach the technical stuff. Your help would be appreciated! :) Thanks in advance! Chris _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080820-0, 08/20/2008 Tested on: 8/20/2008 8:27:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29312	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who here does aquaponics?

I buy my fruits and veggies at the store.. usually in a can but sometimes I'll go a little fresher and get them in a jar. LOL Although I did have an ex who did have lots of gardens around the house but I got rid of them when I got rid of her. LOL I do use some of the water, that I siphon out of my tanks each week during my normal weekly 25% PWC's (partial water changes), to water my few potted house plants. I also give some of it to my neighbors who have more potted plants. When I had my ponds, I would siphon the water right into the various flower beds, gardens, etc. I haven't seen anyone out here mention aquaponics but fish water would certainly be a good source of fertilizers for any plants. You would probably want a very strong UGF (Under Gravel Filter) system so that it would suck up all of the detritus from the gravel or a RUGF (Reverse UGF) that would suspend the detritus in the water column for other filter systems to suck up. I'm not sure how many plants would be supported by a normal sized tank. Of course, if you have BIG fish like Oscars, Plecos, Goldfish, etc., that put out lots of waste, they would do a better job of providing the nutrients compared to smaller tropical fish. Having lots of plants in a tank or in a sump system is definitely a good thing for the overall ecology of a closed system like a fish tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 8:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Who here does aquaponics? Aquaponics is one of the most interesting things (IMHO) you could learn. It involves circulating the tank water through a soil less growing medium to grow plants, and the plants use the nutrients in the water from the fish waste to grow and purify the water from the nitrates and phosphates in the water. Some grow veggies and some grow house plants. From what I understand fish are healthier with aquaponics. So who here does it? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080820-0, 08/20/2008 Tested on: 8/20/2008 8:43:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29313	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who here does aquaponics?

I got rid of piles of dirty laundry and cigarette butts when I got rid of mine. But on another note on topic. There is at least one seller on ebay that is selling mangrove seedlings and pods. I do believe these are good for reef tanks and brackish tanks but am unsure how well they work or if they can survive in a strictly freshwater environment for an extended period of time. I have no association with any of these sellers. _http://home.shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=mangrove&_sacat=20754&_fromfsb=0&_trksid=m270.l1313_ (http://home.shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=mangrove&_sacat=20754&_fromfsb=0&_trksid=m270.l1313) If they can work in a freshwater environment I would given them a go. -Mike In a message dated 8/20/2008 6:43:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I buy my fruits and veggies at the store.. usually in a can but sometimes I'll go a little fresher and get them in a jar. LOL Although I did have an ex who did have lots of gardens around the house but I got rid of them when I got rid of her. LOL **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29314	From: Paula Brown	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Growing Timeframe

I have a planted 10 gallon tank that originally housed a platy - yep, just one platy!<G> I saw her at the store, bought her, placed in her there for quarantine. She immediately popped out some babies so I never got anymore fish for that tank for fear they would eat the babies. She ended up dying the next day. Water tests out fine per my API test kit. This was about two months ago. Six babies made it. They are still little tiny things, about the length of a pencil lead. How long does it take these guys to get to a size where I could put some other adult platy's in there? I can't believe that after almost two months they are still that small! Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29315	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Growing Timeframe

Hi Paula, How frequent are your water changes and how much water is changed at a time? In some of my tanks I notice the fish grow faster with frequent water changes. -Mike In a message dated 8/21/2008 3:59:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, paulabrown4480@... writes: Six babies made it. They are still little tiny things, about the length of a pencil lead. How long does it take these guys to get to a size where I could put some other adult platy's in there? I can't believe that after almost two months they are still that small! Paula in Monroe, Michigan **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29316	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Looks to me like a black phantom tetra. I've got a bunch of them in my tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Dear Group Members, Can anyone identify my mystery fish? I think its some kind of Tetra. Thanks in advance, here's a link: http://journals.aol.com/fitprota/PetsPetsPets/ Lenny, I'm looking fwd to hearing your advice about my set up and stocking. Snail update: the two blondes are looking ok, the dark one with a hole is now oozing something and smelling a bit funky, but still alive. I don't think any have eaten in the last couple of days though:-( they are all in a hospital tank. Hope all is well with every one! Cheers, Tania + the Fids Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:40:49 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Here's the links for the snails. Foods - http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 Shell Repair (part of the Disease page) - http://www.applesnail.net/content/various/snail_disease.php and more particularly here... http://members.shaw.ca/the-guyz/snail_plaster_experiment.htm I'll look over the rest of your email when I get back home later. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 3:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Hello Lenny and thanks for the advice. I really appreciate your help. I went to the Applesnail site and did not find any article for repairing the shell or on high calcium foods for them. Nor did it give me much help at all on knowing what to do or what the survival chances are. Is there any other site with that info? I did read an article I found on Google that said the hole could possibly be repaired with crazy glue and egg shell, but chances are the snail would eventually die. I would like to try that if I see my snail is still alive in a day or two. Also I wanted to treat his wound for infection, not sure if the Fish Protector I used will help. I realize now I made a huge mistake by using the Quick Cure remedy as it is not for invertebrates. My 3 snailsreceived 2 days worth of this medication. I have now taken them out from that tank and put them in the other with some fish Kordon Fish Protector, it is a destresser which has B12 and Echinacea. The three are not looking good today, very little movement and I don't think they're eating. I am thinking I may remove them all together and put them in their own hospital tank, no pump or filter, as I read they can survive ok in there for long periods. I asked a Sea Monkey expert and they told me that Sea Monkeys are a Hybrid of the Brine shrimp, as they live in fresh, not salt water. Yes it's possible my Betta ate too many dead ones or just simply over ate. He was so happy eating them though! How sad :-( RIP Chi Chi * As for my stock, here goes, I'm no expert and I can't remember some of the names, but I will try, they're all from Petsmart as of now: - 2 Neon Tetras - 1 Tetra of another type, looks like a Harlequin Rasbora, but has longer fins and no black on the body from Petsmart - 1 Siamese Algae Eater (I think or it looks like this one) - 1 Albino Algae Eater - 1 Gourami - 9 Ghost Shrimp, 2 are Preggo - 4 African Dwarf Frogs - 3 Mystery Snail(that's what Petsmart calls them), 2 Gold and 1 Black (the one with the hole in his shell) - 5 Female Bettas - 5 Baby Mystery Fish, they came with the Shrimp, maybe Guppies, can't tell yet, they're tiny * As for which fish are in which tank, I switch them around sometimes, but here's what it looks like today. 10 Gallon Tank: - 3 Snails - 5 Baby Fish - 9 Ghost Shrimp -2 Neon Tetra - 1other Tetra 27 Gallon Coffee table (can hold up to about 40 or moreGallons if needed): - 1 Gourami - 5 Female Bettas - 2 Algae Eaters - 4 African Dwarf Frogs In overlooking this, I can see that my 10 Gallon is over crowded so I will plan to move some of the Ghost Shrimp to the Coffee Table tank. I'm a little worried about the Bettas eating them though. What would be your recommendations as to my stocking for long term? I was also thinking about getting a German Ram fish. Would it be compatible? Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers, Tania and the fids Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:26:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Go to http://www.Applesnail.net <http://www.Applesnail.net> forums for the best help on your snail. I know they have an article on repairing a snail shell but you may also want to get some first hand info on treating the potential flesh wound before doing a shell repair. I haven't been following them much lately since I haven't had any since Hurricane Katrina. Also, while at the Applesnail site, check out their articles on high calcium foods to feed your snails. Sea-Monkeys are simply brine shrimp. They are one and the same. The very small amount of salt that is in a brine shrimp will not likely kill a fish so maybe you are overfeeding or maybe too many dead brine shrimp in the mix... or maybe attack of the toddler again! ;-) What kind of "algae eaters" do you have? There are literally hundreds or maybe even thousands of fish that are called algae eaters so you need to find out what species you have. What kind of tetras do you have? Some stay quite small while others get quite large. Which fish/frogs do you have in which tank? Looking over your list of fish/critters and using the smallest of species for each unidentified species, I'm not sure if they will all work out long-term in your two tanks so you may need to rethink your stocking plans for long-term success. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Tania Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Hello everyone! I'm Tania. Nice to make everyone's aquaintance. I am sorta new at fishkeeping and learning from my mistakes sadly. Among my pets (finned, furry & feathered) I have two aquariums, both freshwater. One is a Coffetable tank, holding about 27 Gallons and the other a 10 Gallon. Residents are(listed, but not all housed together): 3 Mystery Snails (one is severely injured, need advice), 3 Tetras, 6 Ghost Shrimp, 5 Female Bettas(my last and Fave male died today :-(, think it was my fault, I'll explain), 4 African Dwarf Frogs, 3 Algae Eaters & 1 Gourami. I think that's everybody. First problem, my toddler, took out my black Mystery snail and threw him, he was playing catch. Unfortunately, my poor snail suffered a bad break in his shell near the tip of the cone, on the second ring. It is a hole and his flesh is exposed. I have put Quick Cure in the water yesterday and today. He's still alive, but I'm not sure if he can survive this. Today, it looked like the flesh that is exposed had some kind of white, crackly looking stuff on it, maybe and infection, I am no expert so I am guessing. However, he's still moving around at least. I have put in some spinach leaves and some cuttle bone for calcium, but other than that, what else can I do to help him survive and what are his chances? The other issue is my Betta, yesterday, I got my fish some live Brine shrimp and fed them all. It was primarily for my frogs since they like live food only, however, all my fish were feasting on these. They are saltwater Brine shrimp. I am guessing the salt was too much for my Betta who probably binged on them. He didn't want to eat today, I could tell something was wrong. I went out and by the time I got home, he was already dead. Very sad. I had originally bought real Seamonkeys and twice they died on me, I think they got too much morning sun exposure so I abandoned that effort and bough brine shrimp. Seems Sea Monkeys are not saltwater, but freshwater and that is the difference. Anybody have experience with Seamonkeys? If I continue to feed these saltwater brine shrimp, will it intoxicate any of my other fish or frogs? How many per fish is ok? Thank you all for your help in advance. Cheers, Tania & the pets _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 12:26:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 3:40:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 4:40:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29317	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Serpae's are a deeper and more orangy red, adn they don't have the black cheek spot and the black dorsal fin. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gwydryn@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions looks like a Serpae tetra Enid Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says.... SHIT, She's awake! **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29318	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Well, come to think of it, m black phantoms have black tail fins. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Serpae Tetra -- a member if the Callistus Group. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29319	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself

Two good books are The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums, and Freshwater Aquariums for Dummies. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 8:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Introducing myself Hello everyone! I'm newbie looking to learn as much as I can about fish keeping. I've had tanks before in the past (when I was a child), but wasn't successful at them. I want to do it right and would appreciate any websites that could help me. I would really like websites that go beyond just the basics and actually teach the technical stuff. Your help would be appreciated! :) Thanks in advance! Chris ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29320	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Growing Timeframe

Frequent PWC's (10% a day or 25% every couple of days) and frequent small feedings will give them the best chance of not being stunted. What are you water parameters? All you said was "fine" but give us the numbers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 6:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Growing Timeframe Hi Paula, How frequent are your water changes and how much water is changed at a time? In some of my tanks I notice the fish grow faster with frequent water changes. -Mike In a message dated 8/21/2008 3:59:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, paulabrown4480@... <mailto:paulabrown4480%40sbcglobal.net> writes: Six babies made it. They are still little tiny things, about the length of a pencil lead. How long does it take these guys to get to a size where I could put some other adult platy's in there? I can't believe that after almost two months they are still that small! Paula in Monroe, Michigan **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047 <http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080820-0, 08/20/2008 Tested on: 8/21/2008 6:02:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080821-0, 08/21/2008 Tested on: 8/21/2008 10:47:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29321	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Hey Everyone and thanks for your replies! I actually went to petsmart today and saw the name of my fish. It is a red finned minor tetra, my pic was not doing the colors any justice. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:25:41 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Looks to me like a black phantom tetra. I've got a bunch of them in my tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Dear Group Members, Can anyone identify my mystery fish? I think its some kind of Tetra. Thanks in advance, here's a link: http://journals.aol.com/fitprota/PetsPetsPets/ Lenny, I'm looking fwd to hearing your advice about my set up and stocking. Snail update: the two blondes are looking ok, the dark one with a hole is now oozing something and smelling a bit funky, but still alive. I don't think any have eaten in the last couple of days though:-( they are all in a hospital tank. Hope all is well with every one! Cheers, Tania + the Fids Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:40:49 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Here's the links for the snails. Foods - http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 Shell Repair (part of the Disease page) - http://www.applesnail.net/content/various/snail_disease.php and more particularly here... http://members.shaw.ca/the-guyz/snail_plaster_experiment.htm I'll look over the rest of your email when I get back home later. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 3:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Hello Lenny and thanks for the advice. I really appreciate your help. I went to the Applesnail site and did not find any article for repairing the shell or on high calcium foods for them. Nor did it give me much help at all on knowing what to do or what the survival chances are. Is there any other site with that info? I did read an article I found on Google that said the hole could possibly be repaired with crazy glue and egg shell, but chances are the snail would eventually die. I would like to try that if I see my snail is still alive in a day or two. Also I wanted to treat his wound for infection, not sure if the Fish Protector I used will help. I realize now I made a huge mistake by using the Quick Cure remedy as it is not for invertebrates. My 3 snailsreceived 2 days worth of this medication. I have now taken them out from that tank and put them in the other with some fish Kordon Fish Protector, it is a destresser which has B12 and Echinacea. The three are not looking good today, very little movement and I don't think they're eating. I am thinking I may remove them all together and put them in their own hospital tank, no pump or filter, as I read they can survive ok in there for long periods. I asked a Sea Monkey expert and they told me that Sea Monkeys are a Hybrid of the Brine shrimp, as they live in fresh, not salt water. Yes it's possible my Betta ate too many dead ones or just simply over ate. He was so happy eating them though! How sad :-( RIP Chi Chi * As for my stock, here goes, I'm no expert and I can't remember some of the names, but I will try, they're all from Petsmart as of now: - 2 Neon Tetras - 1 Tetra of another type, looks like a Harlequin Rasbora, but has longer fins and no black on the body from Petsmart - 1 Siamese Algae Eater (I think or it looks like this one) - 1 Albino Algae Eater - 1 Gourami - 9 Ghost Shrimp, 2 are Preggo - 4 African Dwarf Frogs - 3 Mystery Snail(that's what Petsmart calls them), 2 Gold and 1 Black (the one with the hole in his shell) - 5 Female Bettas - 5 Baby Mystery Fish, they came with the Shrimp, maybe Guppies, can't tell yet, they're tiny * As for which fish are in which tank, I switch them around sometimes, but here's what it looks like today. 10 Gallon Tank: - 3 Snails - 5 Baby Fish - 9 Ghost Shrimp -2 Neon Tetra - 1other Tetra 27 Gallon Coffee table (can hold up to about 40 or moreGallons if needed): - 1 Gourami - 5 Female Bettas - 2 Algae Eaters - 4 African Dwarf Frogs In overlooking this, I can see that my 10 Gallon is over crowded so I will plan to move some of the Ghost Shrimp to the Coffee Table tank. I'm a little worried about the Bettas eating them though. What would be your recommendations as to my stocking for long term? I was also thinking about getting a German Ram fish. Would it be compatible? Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers, Tania and the fids Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:26:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Go to http://www.Applesnail.net <http://www.Applesnail.net> forums for the best help on your snail. I know they have an article on repairing a snail shell but you may also want to get some first hand info on treating the potential flesh wound before doing a shell repair. I haven't been following them much lately since I haven't had any since Hurricane Katrina. Also, while at the Applesnail site, check out their articles on high calcium foods to feed your snails. Sea-Monkeys are simply brine shrimp. They are one and the same. The very small amount of salt that is in a brine shrimp will not likely kill a fish so maybe you are overfeeding or maybe too many dead brine shrimp in the mix... or maybe attack of the toddler again! ;-) What kind of "algae eaters" do you have? There are literally hundreds or maybe even thousands of fish that are called algae eaters so you need to find out what species you have. What kind of tetras do you have? Some stay quite small while others get quite large. Which fish/frogs do you have in which tank? Looking over your list of fish/critters and using the smallest of species for each unidentified species, I'm not sure if they will all work out long-term in your two tanks so you may need to rethink your stocking plans for long-term success. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Tania Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions Hello everyone! I'm Tania. Nice to make everyone's aquaintance. I am sorta new at fishkeeping and learning from my mistakes sadly. Among my pets (finned, furry & feathered) I have two aquariums, both freshwater. One is a Coffetable tank, holding about 27 Gallons and the other a 10 Gallon. Residents are(listed, but not all housed together): 3 Mystery Snails (one is severely injured, need advice), 3 Tetras, 6 Ghost Shrimp, 5 Female Bettas(my last and Fave male died today :-(, think it was my fault, I'll explain), 4 African Dwarf Frogs, 3 Algae Eaters & 1 Gourami. I think that's everybody. First problem, my toddler, took out my black Mystery snail and threw him, he was playing catch. Unfortunately, my poor snail suffered a bad break in his shell near the tip of the cone, on the second ring. It is a hole and his flesh is exposed. I have put Quick Cure in the water yesterday and today. He's still alive, but I'm not sure if he can survive this. Today, it looked like the flesh that is exposed had some kind of white, crackly looking stuff on it, maybe and infection, I am no expert so I am guessing. However, he's still moving around at least. I have put in some spinach leaves and some cuttle bone for calcium, but other than that, what else can I do to help him survive and what are his chances? The other issue is my Betta, yesterday, I got my fish some live Brine shrimp and fed them all. It was primarily for my frogs since they like live food only, however, all my fish were feasting on these. They are saltwater Brine shrimp. I am guessing the salt was too much for my Betta who probably binged on them. He didn't want to eat today, I could tell something was wrong. I went out and by the time I got home, he was already dead. Very sad. I had originally bought real Seamonkeys and twice they died on me, I think they got too much morning sun exposure so I abandoned that effort and bough brine shrimp. Seems Sea Monkeys are not saltwater, but freshwater and that is the difference. Anybody have experience with Seamonkeys? If I continue to feed these saltwater brine shrimp, will it intoxicate any of my other fish or frogs? How many per fish is ok? Thank you all for your help in advance. Cheers, Tania & the pets _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 12:26:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 3:40:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 Tested on: 8/18/2008 4:40:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29322	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, new member, plus 911 help needed & questions

Hi Tania, Yes, that was quite true, your pic was a bit dark and the fish's true colors were not easily seen. Still, I was able to get a good idea of what the fish looked like, keeping in mind a species' color can vary somewhat depending on its location (original collecting location). Even if this fish was not wild caught, when breeding fish from the particular location their parents (or grand-parents) were caught from, the offspring will have this location's colors, even though any differences (if any) from any other locations may be subtle. There is one thing though, that I don't quite understand, and that is why you would choose to prefer the information given to you by a chain-store such as PetSmart (or which ever one you frequent), even though they SHOULD know what they're selling, but all too often don't/can't give you the correct information. While its certainly your prerogative to believe whomever you choose to, the question comes to mind, why then did you ask here if you choose not to believe anyone, when two of us gave you the right answer. In this case, by chance PetSmart did at least give you half of the correct answer. As I previously mentioned, this fish is of the Callistus Complex. There are some twelve species and or sub-species within this group at last count (some very close to the Type - Hyphessobrycon compressus), with your species included in this group. Within the Group, there are two "claves," or artificial assemblages, one being the Hy. callistus/serpae group and the other being the Hy. bentosi group. Those species belonging to the Callistus/Serpae clave include Hyphessobrycon pulchripinnis, H. georgettae, H. takasei, H. copelandi, H. eques, H. callistus and H. serpae -- as 3 (THREE) different sub-species, noteably -- H. serpae serpa, H. serpae minor and H. serpae haraldshulzi. The Bentosi clave includes -- H. erythrostigma (syn. rubrostigma), H. robertsi, H. compressus (syn. milleri) and H. bentosi, as 2 (two) sub-species; H. bentosi bentosi and H. bentosi rosaceus. By this, you shouild note that your "Minor Tetra" is a sub-species of Serpae -- Hyphessobrycon serpae minor, a member of the Callistus Group of Tetras. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29323	From: Paula Brown	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: Growing Timeframe

I had wrote about how long it is taking my platy babies to grow into a reasonable size so that I can add some more fish to the tank (after almost two months they are only about the length of a pencil lead). Mike wrote: "How frequent are your water changes and how much water is changed at a time? In some of my tanks I notice the fish grow faster with frequent water changes." I admit that I am not a fanatic on PWC's. Maybe every two weeks? Or close to it. My free time is limited but my water evaporates so quickly so I empty out about 25% and then fill it off. Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29324	From: Texas_Tears2000	Date: 8/21/2008
Subject: hello fishie group, i changed my my small tank 2 day.......

I had 2 very small tropical in a pint water.They got a new tank today.It just a galloon.They are still babies, tiny like a pea, length wize.They look like baby gold fish or moors, unsure what they are.       http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/ourgoldfish http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29325	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/22/2008
Subject: Re: Dying guppy

Well, that's true. I have a tetra that has had a swim bladder disorder for a long time. He's a little better since I got a bigger tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Haley" <lowjack989@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy Sounds as if he has a swim bladder disorder --- On Mon, 8/18/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 3:01 PM If Bob is swimming actively on his back or side, is there any chance he just has a simple infection? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dying guppy I want to thank you all for your suggestions and compassion. Anyhow, I got the clove oil and the vodka, and as I transferred Bob to the death tank he showed a lot of spunk. In the little tank he was swimming around quickly (still on his back or side) but he seems not to want to go yet, so I broke down and put him back in the aquarium (I'll watch him closely). I had another guppy who was old and she died about a month ago (peacefully) , and in my 10 gal. tank I also have a catfish and a clown pleco who are both doing well,( backed up by a chorus of snails). I just want to thank you all again, and I hope that in the future I'll be able to make a meaningful contribution to this group. You all are the best! Peace, Sandi --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Richard Haley <lowjack989@ ...> wrote: > > Sounds like Bob may be getting on up in age, so euthanasia maybe, maybe not. Perhaps just start a 5 gallon tank with old Bob in it and see how well he does use tank water of course so as not to stress him out anymore. What is the ph and temp. of your tank water anyway? > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Richard Haley lowjack989@. .. wrote: > > From: Richard Haley lowjack989@. .. > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > it was a joke mike, lighten up, and stop splitting hairs, are you a teacher or something, and as far as the tank not being natural why are you keeping fish if you think it is bad to keep them in an aquarium. Nevermind > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@aol. com Deenerz@aol. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Richard. > > Cichlid has only one H in it. > > Also using an ill fish as a feeder fish can lead to another dead fish, or two as you suggested. > > Also a tank with fish is not exactly natural. > > Put the fish in the freezer as suggested by many. You may have a hard time searching for the clove oil and by the time you got back from the store the fish will already be gone from freezing. > > -Mike > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Haley <lowjack989@ yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:26 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Just leave him in the tank until he dies that is humane and natural, or how about introducing a chiclid or two large enough to provide you with some entertainment and allow for the process of natural selection to take place. > > --- On Sat, 8/16/08, Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> wrote: > > From: Donna Ransome djransome@optonlin e .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 1:04 PM > > Even more humane to put him to sleep first. A few drops of clove oil (from > health food store, aromatherapy) in a bowl of tank water, takes 5 minutes. > Then freeze. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] O > n > Behalf Of Debra > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Sandi: > The humane way to euthanize a fish is to put it in a small plastic bowl with > tank water and put him in your freezer. > That being said I have a discus that does the floating I'm going to die > thing every time he gets stressed. I make him swim. Every so often I touch > him and he swims to the bottom to hide. I let him rest a couple of hours and > do it again. > So far he is alive and appears to have recovered once again. > Deb > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "freefallfroggie" <freefallfroggie@ > <mailto:freefallfro ggie%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:22:56 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying guppy > > Hi. My guppy, Bob, who I've had for about 2 1/2 years is either > floating on his side or his back since yesterday. I've thought he'd > passed on a few times but then he would start swimming a little bit. I > just don't want him to suffer. I called my local vet and they told me > to flush him, they said the water pressure would put him out of his > misery quickly, but I can't bring myself to do that. I would just like > to find a humane way to help him. > Thank you. > Sandi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > =0 > A > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29326	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/22/2008
Subject: Re: how many fish do u put in a 5 galloon tank ?

I see a photo of a tank full of reddish fish that looks overcrowded, and, it could be the light, but the water looks cloudy. And a single fish in a small container. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Texas_Tears2000" <texas_tears2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 8:18 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] how many fish do u put in a 5 galloon tank ? 1 tank i have : 16 teen 4 galloon i have 8 http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/my_fish A great way to share experience & ask ?s Messages In This Digest (23 Messages) 1a. Gravel Cleaning? From: vivian bradish 1b. Re: Gravel Cleaning? From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny 1c. Re: Gravel Cleaning? From: Mark Hough 1d. Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand From: texas_tears2000 1e. Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand From: allie1068@... 1f. Re: Gravel Cleaning? From: Steve Szabo 2a. Re: WANTED: TANK STAND From: Helen 2b. Re: WANTED: TANK STAND From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny 3. hello turtel ID From: moaaz amouri 4a. How many fish do yall put in a From: texas_tears2000 4b. Re: How many fish/5 gal. From: harry perry 4c. Re: How many fish/5 gal. From: allie1068@... 4d. Re: How many fish do yall put in a From: allie1068@... 4e. Re: How many fish do yall put in a From: ~¤Heather¤~ 4f. Re: How many fish do yall put in a From: kolkri@... 4g. Re: How many fish do yall put in a From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny 4h. Re: How many fish do yall put in a From: Kate Conrow 4i. Re: How many fish do yall put in a From: allie1068@... 4j. Re: How many fish do yall put in a From: Raymond Wetzel 5. Re: Home Page Fish From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny 6a. WANTED From: wildyandangel 6b. Re: WANTED From: Raymond Wetzel 6c. Re: WANTED From: Deenerz@... View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1a. Gravel Cleaning? Posted by: "vivian bradish" viv32117@... viv32117 Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:26 am (PDT) My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a 70 gallon tank) Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1b. Re: Gravel Cleaning? Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@... neighborhood_home_services Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:42 am (PDT) You should be vacuuming your gravel with each PWC (25% partial water change). The good bacteria that grows in your gravel is microscopic and attaches to the surface areas of the gravel so everything else down there is fish waste, uneaten food, etc... generally called detritus. For the most part, the only thing that will be growing in detritus is bad bacteria, other pathogens, etc., so it's best to keep your gravel as clean as possible using your gravel vacuum when you do your PWC's. For people with heavily planted tanks, some detritus is OK as it will break down and be utilized by the plants as food but for non-planted tanks or lightly planted tanks, it's better for the overall ecology to remove as much detritus as possible using the gravel vacuum. I vacuum my gravel weekly with my PWC's. I think I've already mentioned it to you but I have a long article on Filter Maintenance & Cleaning on my blog and I also have a Filter Profile on a Penguin Bio-Wheel 200 showing how I break it down for cleaning and filter maintenance and also how I modified the filter cartridge to remove the carbon (which isn't any good after a couple of weeks anyhow) and added more filter pad for better mechanical and biological filtration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel Cleaning? My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a 70 gallon tank) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/14/2008 10:42:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1c. Re: Gravel Cleaning? Posted by: "Mark Hough" mhough6229@... schmector Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:52 am (PDT) You should definitely use a gravel cleaner... On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:06 AM, vivian bradish <viv32117@yahoo. com> wrote: > My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the > other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the > gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the > gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. > Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been > running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. > (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a > 70 gallon tank) > > > -- http://www.myspace. com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1d. Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand Posted by: "texas_tears2000" texas_tears2000@... texas_tears2000 Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:31 pm (PDT) I thought i had 2 wash them by hand....... --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Mark Hough" <mhough6229@ ...> wrote: > > You should definitely use a gravel cleaner... > > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:06 AM, vivian bradish <viv32117@.. .> wrote: > > > My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the > > other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the > > gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the > > gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. > > Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been > > running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. > > (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a > > 70 gallon tank) > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.myspace. com/mhough6229 > > Mark Hough > > I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if > there really is a doG. > I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1e. Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand Posted by: "allie1068@..." allie1068@... allie1068 Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:47 pm (PDT) I would most deffinately begin your gravel vacing. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:56:58 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gravel Cleaning? i though i had wwash rocks by hand I thought i had 2 wash them by hand....... --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Mark Hough" <mhough6229@ ...> wrote: > > You should definitely use a gravel cleaner... > > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:06 AM, vivian bradish <viv32117@.. .> wrote: > > > My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the > > other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the > > gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the > > gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. > > Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been > > running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. > > (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a > > 70 gallon tank) > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.myspace. com/mhough6229 > > Mark Hough > > I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if > there really is a doG. > I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1f. Re: Gravel Cleaning? Posted by: "Steve Szabo" steve@... stevesza Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:35 pm (PDT) As has been mentioned already, do clean your gravel. I'd suggest that you do about 25% of your gravel bed each water change. Will you suck up some of the bacteria that participate in the cycle? Undoubtedly you will. Will it be enough to throw your cycle off? Probably not. The remaining bacteria, either from the area you cleaned, or from a neighboring area will quickly populate the unused space. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 8:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel Cleaning? My tank is crystal clear and the ornaments have no algae. However, the other day I added some fake plants and when I was pushing them into the gravel I noticed all this greyish cloudy stuff coming up from under the gravel. The top of the gravel, which is the larger stone type, is clean. Is it necessary to use gravel cleaner at this time? The tank has been running for 4 months. or should I leave it there for bacteria purposes. (it is a 40 gallon tank with a bio wheel filter that can clean up to a 70 gallon tank) Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 2a. Re: WANTED: TANK STAND Posted by: "Helen" Helyun@... helyun01 Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:27 am (PDT) that was the first place I tried,,, but thanx for the help --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Make sure you post on and search your local FreeCycle.org group and > Craigslist.org site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Helen > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] WANTED: TANK STAND > > I have a tank someone gave me as I'm trying to keep my saltwater tank even, > but it's an octagonle tank, so it's too deep, so I'm trying to find an > affordable or FREE stand, need a wooden stand to hide all the equipment, so > if anyone has an old one still in very strong, solid condition,, I would > truly appreciate it.. I live in Southern Mass, the size I';m looking for is > 36 X 18 1/4 Thank You Helen > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080813-0, 08/13/2008 > Tested on: 8/13/2008 1:47:26 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080813-0, 08/13/2008 > Tested on: 8/13/2008 1:48:22 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (4) 2b. Re: WANTED: TANK STAND Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@... neighborhood_home_services Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:47 am (PDT) Next thing that might help is a low-cost tank stand that I built several years ago for my 65G 48" x 18" goldfish tank. I have the DIY instructions and photos in one of my blogs. I built this stand for $20.00. I never did add the cosmetic finish to the stand as Hurricane Katrina interrupted my plans but it can be cosmetically finished very inexpensively with something as simple as a table cloth or other material covering the front/sides or for another $20.00 with a nice piece of real wood paneling/veneer. I have plenty of room under the stand for my canister filter, UPS (uninterruptible power supply), supplies, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Helen Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 8:33 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: WANTED: TANK STAND that was the first place I tried,,, but thanx for the help --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Make sure you post on and search your local FreeCycle.org group and > Craigslist.org site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On > Behalf Of Helen > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] WANTED: TANK STAND > > I have a tank someone gave me as I'm trying to keep my saltwater tank even, > but it's an octagonle tank, so it's too deep, so I'm trying to find an > affordable or FREE stand, need a wooden stand to hide all the equipment, so > if anyone has an old one still in very strong, solid condition,, I would > truly appreciate it.. I live in Southern Mass, the size I';m looking for is > 36 X 18 1/4 Thank You Helen > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/14/2008 10:46:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (4) 3. hello turtel ID Posted by: "moaaz amouri" moaazamouri@... moaazamouri Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:25 am (PDT) thes messaege for HenneyAlan this turtel is the red ear turtel thank you [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 4a. How many fish do yall put in a Posted by: "texas_tears2000" texas_tears2000@... texas_tears2000 Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:10 pm (PDT) 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4b. Re: How many fish/5 gal. Posted by: "harry perry" harryfisherman@... harryfisherman Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:19 pm (PDT) Unless your starting a species tank. One pair for breeding etc. The small tanks will cost you more in the long run. They go downhill quick and you'll lose your investment. A 20 gallon is easier to keep stabilized and houses many more fish. Harry --- On Thu, 8/14/08, texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 7:07 PM 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4c. Re: How many fish/5 gal. Posted by: "allie1068@..." allie1068@... allie1068 Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:26 pm (PDT) I've had a 5 gal in my kitchen for 3 years and its not much more maint than my 2 55s 20 and 10. Its just pesonal expierence Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:19:00 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish/5 gal. Unless your starting a species tank. One pair for breeding etc. The small tanks will cost you more in the long run. They go downhill quick and you'll lose your investment. A 20 gallon is easier to keep stabilized and houses many more fish. Harry --- On Thu, 8/14/08, texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 7:07 PM 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4d. Re: How many fish do yall put in a Posted by: "allie1068@..." allie1068@... allie1068 Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:31 pm (PDT) The rule I usualy go by is one inch of fish per gallon. But you have to look at the fishes maximum size. I'd put like 3 guppies or 3 or 4 ember tetras.. Just a few small fish. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:07:27 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4e. Re: How many fish do yall put in a Posted by: "~¤Heather¤~" lilredhd1@... lilredhd1 Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:37 pm (PDT) None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4f. Re: How many fish do yall put in a Posted by: "kolkri@..." kolkri@... hiyatoyou Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:39 pm (PDT) One a betta.   Angie and the Gang -------Original Message----- -- From: texas_tears2000 Date: 08/14/08 18:10:53 To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4g. Re: How many fish do yall put in a Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@... neighborhood_home_services Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:50 pm (PDT) Depends on the fish but not many. No more than five 1" fish like neon tetras, galaxy raspboras, etc., as long as the tank is filtered. On my blog, I have a 10G tank stocking suggestions list so you could browse over some of those fish to get an idea but some of them would get too big for a 5G tank so you would have to choose the smallest of the species and then only stock 1/2 of what the 10G suggestions might be... or you could put one Betta Splendens and maybe a Mystery Snail. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 gallon aquarium? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/14/2008 8:50:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4h. Re: How many fish do yall put in a Posted by: "Kate Conrow" k8hardy@... k8conrow Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:07 pm (PDT) Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4i. Re: How many fish do yall put in a Posted by: "allie1068@..." allie1068@... allie1068 Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:07 am (PDT) Wow! I would not recomend doing that at all! It may be ok for a little while but it always catches up with you. Try to think of it this way: how would you feel if you were crammed into a room made for 5 people and there was 10 adults and 20 kids? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Kate Conrow <k8hardy@yahoo. com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:40 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a Depends on the fish and what type of aquarium. In my planted 5g I have probably 20 shrimp and 10 or so fish. I can only get away with this because all inhabitants are very small and the tank is heavily planted. Kate ----- Original Message ---- From: ~¤Heather¤~ <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a None of my fish would actually be ok in such a small tank...LOL but others in the group can most likely help you out more. Heather -----Original Message----- From: texas_tears2000 <texas_tears2000@ yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many fish do yall put in a 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 4j. Re: How many fish do yall put in a Posted by: "Raymond Wetzel" sevenspringss@... sevenspringss Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:26 am (PDT) Yall of them! <g>. Sorry 'bout that, couldn't resist. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@ ...> wrote: > > 5 to 6 galloon aquarium? > > > > > > http://www.groups. yahoo.com/ group/my_ fish > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 5. Re: Home Page Fish Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@... neighborhood_home_services Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:26 pm (PDT) I don't think we know yet. Someone else asked about it in the group a few weeks ago and I don't think we ever got a good answer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife- owner@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:AquaticLife- owner@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Wildyspage3girl@ aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife- owner@yahoogroup s.com Subject: (no subject) hi can you please tell me the name of fish shown on home page of this site, thank you wildy n angel _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080814-0, 08/14/2008 Tested on: 8/14/2008 9:26:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 6a. WANTED Posted by: "wildyandangel" Wildyspage3girl@... wildyandangel Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:44 am (PDT) CHALLLENGE, can anyone name the fish on the home page of this site, ( AquaticLife ) is it a fresh water chichlid ? or marine fish ? of some kind.come on you knowledgable guys.lets share the secrets. best regards. wildy n angel Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) 6b. Re: WANTED Posted by: "Raymond Wetzel" sevenspringss@... sevenspringss Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:50 am (PDT) Someone (Snert) has already identified it back on July 2nd as a species of marine Fairy Wrasse, although it was not know exactly what species. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "wildyandangel" <Wildyspage3girl@ ...> wrote: > > CHALLLENGE, can anyone name the fish on the home page of this site, > ( AquaticLife ) is it a fresh water chichlid ? or marine fish ? of > some kind.come on you knowledgable guys.lets share the secrets. best > regards. wildy n angel > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) 6c. Re: WANTED Posted by: "Deenerz@..." Deenerz@... deenerzz Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:00 am (PDT) Despite appearing like a cichlid, it is not a Cichlid. Many people attempted to identify it not long ago. I don't think it was determined. -Mike In a message dated 8/15/2008 3:44:15 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Wildyspage3girl@ aol.com writes: CHALLLENGE, can anyone name the fish on the home page of this site, ( AquaticLife ) is it a fresh water chichlid ? or marine fish ? of some kind.come on you knowledgable guys.lets share the secrets. best regards. wildy n angel ************ **Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos. aol.com/cars- Volkswagen- Jetta-2009/ expert-review? ncid=aolaut00030 000000007 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity 11 New Members 19 New Photos 3 New LinksVisit Your Group Women of Curves on Yahoo! Groups see how women are changing their lives. Get in Shape on Yahoo! Groups Find a buddy and lose weight. Y! Groups blog The place to go to stay informed on Groups news! Need to Reply? Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest. Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29327	From: amazing_grace1962	Date: 8/22/2008
Subject: Hello New here!

Hi everyone. I came across a green spotted puffer fish and fell inlove! Im wanting to set up a tank. My question is I have a water sofner in my home. Am I able to use this water or do I need to purchace water from somewhere? Marilyn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29328	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/22/2008
Subject: Re: Hello New here!

You should have a bypass valve to get water that has not been affected by the water softener. You should still do a baseline test on this water source to find out what your water parameter baseline is. I have a blog on finding your baseline. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amazing_grace1962 Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello New here! Hi everyone. I came across a green spotted puffer fish and fell inlove! Im wanting to set up a tank. My question is I have a water sofner in my home. Am I able to use this water or do I need to purchace water from somewhere? Marilyn _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080822-0, 08/22/2008 Tested on: 8/22/2008 3:56:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29329	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2008
Subject: Re: Hello New here!

I am not sure what you saw in the store. It could be _ Tetraodon nigroviridis_, _ Tetraodon fluviatilis_, or even something else. Both live in fresh/brackish waters, so you are correct to wonder if it is OK to use your softened water. If you were to want to keep software fish, it would be OK to use your softened water. However, the needs of the puffers would indicate hard water. As Lenny mentioned, there should be a bypass of some sort so that all the water used in the household need be softened. You should use water supplied by this line. Before you start anything, however, get some test kits and test your water both softened and not softened for pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and hardness.. reserve some of the sample used to test your pH and measure the pH again, after 24 hours of it sitting, open to the air. This is to determine if the pH is stable, near the measurement you took originally, or if it drops or rises after gassing out. Once this has been done, and your results posted here, you will be ready to start setting up your tank. If you are on a public system, check with your water people to get a listing of the results of their testing. The figures should not be that far apart. They most likely will not be the same, because the water is tested in various locations, and not at your front door. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amazing_grace1962 Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello New here! Hi everyone. I came across a green spotted puffer fish and fell inlove! Im wanting to set up a tank. My question is I have a water sofner in my home. Am I able to use this water or do I need to purchace water from somewhere? Marilyn ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29330	From: Chris	Date: 8/23/2008
Subject: Noob question - Water changes

When you do a water change, how do you prevent from dropping the water temperature of the tank? Also How do you buffer the tank against ph changes?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29331	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2008
Subject: Re: Noob question - Water changes

Regulate the water coming out the tap using the cold and hot water to get it close to your tank temp. I just use my finger and can tell when they are nearly identical. Since it's better for the fish to do more frequent and smaller PWC's, doing weekly 25% PWC's would keep your water parameters more stable so you wouldn't have to worry about pH crashes. Also, even if your incoming water temp is off by a couple of degrees F, doing only a 25% PWC would mean that the tank temp would only change by 1/2F to 1F which wouldn't affect your fish. You do want to avoid large temperature swings that happen too quickly. I think most guidelines recommend no more than 1-2F every couple of hours. Tell us more about your tank, fish, water parameters (which ever tests you have... preferably pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and temp), etc. If you go to my blog, on the right, I have a link to my page called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and you'll find two free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and more. Any questions... just come back here and ask away! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Noob question - Water changes When you do a water change, how do you prevent from dropping the water temperature of the tank? Also How do you buffer the tank against ph changes? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080823-0, 08/23/2008 Tested on: 8/23/2008 11:06:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29332	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/23/2008
Subject: Re: Noob question - Water changes

It depends on your water. Mine has the ph artificially raised to nearly that of antacid, at the water treatmetn plant, and when you bubble air the ph lowers 1.5 points. So to get the water to the ph it is in the tank I have to bubble air through it for a few hours. I don't worry all that much about the temperature, because in Austin in the summer the water comes out of the tap in the low 70's and it's in the high 70's in the tank. And I'm rarely changing more than a quarter of the water in teh tank. But if I were up north in the winter and the tap water were cold, I'd want to heat it with aquarium heaters in the buckets while the air is bubbling through it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Noob question - Water changes When you do a water change, how do you prevent from dropping the water temperature of the tank? Also How do you buffer the tank against ph changes? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29333	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Noob question - Water changes

I do the water temp as Lenny suggests, but I use a tank thermometer instead of fingers. Also in the world of African Cichlids and especially mbuna where high fish density and fish who demand pristine water, a common practice is to do 50% water changes weekly or more often if necessary to maintain Nitrate under 20ppm. So people add buffer with each water change appropriate to the amount of water being added. You DO have to be very careful not to change the pH, and there is more testing involved to verify that the pH ended up where you want it. We are usually raising the pH as opposed to lowering it which causes a lot more problems. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 12:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Noob question - Water changes Regulate the water coming out the tap using the cold and hot water to get it close to your tank temp. I just use my finger and can tell when they are nearly identical. Since it's better for the fish to do more frequent and smaller PWC's, doing weekly 25% PWC's would keep your water parameters more stable so you wouldn't have to worry about pH crashes. Also, even if your incoming water temp is off by a couple of degrees F, doing only a 25% PWC would mean that the tank temp would only change by 1/2F to 1F which wouldn't affect your fish. You do want to avoid large temperature swings that happen too quickly. I think most guidelines recommend no more than 1-2F every couple of hours. Tell us more about your tank, fish, water parameters (which ever tests you have... preferably pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and temp), etc. If you go to my blog, on the right, I have a link to my page called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and you'll find two free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics and more. Any questions... just come back here and ask away! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Noob question - Water changes When you do a water change, how do you prevent from dropping the water temperature of the tank? Also How do you buffer the tank against ph changes? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080823-0, 08/23/2008 Tested on: 8/23/2008 11:06:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29334	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Nitrates

I have a 55 gallon community tank with (12) 1"-1.5" fancy tail Guppies (2) 1.5" black fin Mollies (1) 3" large Angelfish (3) 2.5" swordtail Mollies (3) 1" Glowfish (1) 1" Cory cat (2) 4" Catfish that look like mini sharks??? (1) 2" painted silver dollar?? (I found out about the dye process, I wont buy another one!!) I have an eheim 2777 wet/dry, whisper pf-60 and a Emperor 400b for filtration. I have about 3" of gravel also. The lights are timed for 8 hours a day. as for plants, I have an 8" Amazon sword and a 4" Fern My nitrates always seem to stay in the 5-10 ppm depending on my weekly water changes (10-30 gallon). Nitrates never seem to go any higher but Im never at zero. Is this normal? Am I over stocked? Thanks PS Nemo is A-ok and back in his 55!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29335	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM][AquaticLife] Noob question - Water changes

you use water that is a little warmer than tank water. you can mix it beforehand, with a heater in the container when you add the dechlor. if you are lucky enough to have water that doesn't have chlorine/chloramine you can just add slowly to the tank, generally speaking, frequent partial water changes will lead to more stable ph. as far as buffering, i'm pretty sure there is someone on this list who has a blog about it, but basically water has different buffering capacities depending on where it is from and what the ph is to start with. buy a test kit to be sure. you can also use as gravel substrates that are designed to buffer your water. there are also solutions that can be used to keep the ph at a specific level, but is almost always easier to keep fish suited to the water condtions you have rather than trying to chemically buffer your water ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 07:28 PM Subject: [SPAM][AquaticLife] Noob question - Water changes Recent Activity a.. 13New Members b.. 7New Photos Visit Your Group Share Photos Put your favorite photos and more online. Yahoo! Groups Join a program to help you find balance in your life. Food Lovers Real Food Group on Yahoo! Groups find out more. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29336	From: babsdvs	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: New filter

I am planning to change out a Penquin for an Aquaclear filter on a tank containing only immature mollies. I am concerned that such a change will harm the fish so I added extra filter media to the Penquin in preparation and am hoping that by adding the old filter water and extra filter media to the new filter that the change will not be too dramatic. In addition, the tank is fairly well planted. Have I thought of everything? Barbara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29337	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates

It’s normal, good job! You could do a little higher % of weekly water change to keep it under 20ppm, but zero would not be normal and anything under 40ppm is considered safe. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrates I have a 55 gallon community tank with (12) 1"-1.5" fancy tail Guppies (2) 1.5" black fin Mollies (1) 3" large Angelfish (3) 2.5" swordtail Mollies (3) 1" Glowfish (1) 1" Cory cat (2) 4" Catfish that look like mini sharks??? (1) 2" painted silver dollar?? (I found out about the dye process, I wont buy another one!!) I have an eheim 2777 wet/dry, whisper pf-60 and a Emperor 400b for filtration. I have about 3" of gravel also. The lights are timed for 8 hours a day. as for plants, I have an 8" Amazon sword and a 4" Fern My nitrates always seem to stay in the 5-10 ppm depending on my weekly water changes (10-30 gallon). Nitrates never seem to go any higher but Im never at zero. Is this normal? Am I over stocked? Thanks PS Nemo is A-ok and back in his 55! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29338	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates

You are doing very well on keeping your nitrates down. Nothing to worry about. I would, however, increase the duration of your lighting to 10-12 hours per day to give the plants enough light, since, in the tropics where they are native, this is what they would normally get. Good news about Nemo. I hope he has learned his lesson. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrates I have a 55 gallon community tank with (12) 1"-1.5" fancy tail Guppies (2) 1.5" black fin Mollies (1) 3" large Angelfish (3) 2.5" swordtail Mollies (3) 1" Glowfish (1) 1" Cory cat (2) 4" Catfish that look like mini sharks??? (1) 2" painted silver dollar?? (I found out about the dye process, I wont buy another one!!) I have an eheim 2777 wet/dry, whisper pf-60 and a Emperor 400b for filtration. I have about 3" of gravel also. The lights are timed for 8 hours a day. as for plants, I have an 8" Amazon sword and a 4" Fern My nitrates always seem to stay in the 5-10 ppm depending on my weekly water changes (10-30 gallon). Nitrates never seem to go any higher but Im never at zero. Is this normal? Am I over stocked? Thanks PS Nemo is A-ok and back in his 55!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29339	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: New filter

What you did will probably work, but better would be to start up the Aquaclear on the existing tank 2 weeks before removing the Penguin (run them both together on the tank for 2 weeks). _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 5:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New filter I am planning to change out a Penquin for an Aquaclear filter on a tank containing only immature mollies. I am concerned that such a change will harm the fish so I added extra filter media to the Penquin in preparation and am hoping that by adding the old filter water and extra filter media to the new filter that the change will not be too dramatic. In addition, the tank is fairly well planted. Have I thought of everything? Barbara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29340	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates

The amount of permissible nitrates varies with the species of fish kept in the aquarium. There are certain South American cichlids where 20 ppm would be a death sentence, while other fish will not be affected until you have more than 200 ppm. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 12:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrates It's normal, good job! You could do a little higher % of weekly water change to keep it under 20ppm, but zero would not be normal and anything under 40ppm is considered safe. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrates I have a 55 gallon community tank with (12) 1"-1.5" fancy tail Guppies (2) 1.5" black fin Mollies (1) 3" large Angelfish (3) 2.5" swordtail Mollies (3) 1" Glowfish (1) 1" Cory cat (2) 4" Catfish that look like mini sharks??? (1) 2" painted silver dollar?? (I found out about the dye process, I wont buy another one!!) I have an eheim 2777 wet/dry, whisper pf-60 and a Emperor 400b for filtration. I have about 3" of gravel also. The lights are timed for 8 hours a day. as for plants, I have an 8" Amazon sword and a 4" Fern My nitrates always seem to stay in the 5-10 ppm depending on my weekly water changes (10-30 gallon). Nitrates never seem to go any higher but Im never at zero. Is this normal? Am I over stocked? Thanks PS Nemo is A-ok and back in his 55!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29341	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates

Here's an old post from \\Steve// all about Nitrates but you don't have to worry about nitrates for most fish as long as you keep them under 40ppm but even if they go higher (for most fish), it will not be a major issue and they can be brought back under control by a series of 10% to 25% PWC's... one every few hours until the water parameters are back where they should be. It's better for your fish to do a series of smaller 10% to 25% PWC's rather than a large PWC so that they can acclimate to the changing water parameters more slowly since higher nitrates usually means lower pH also. The only time that I would do a large PWC (50% or more) is if there was some kind of contamination, over-medication, etc. Now, here is \\Steve's// post. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13064 You need to ID those catfish. Maybe take a couple of pics and upload them to your own photo album site or to the groups photo page and provide a link in a message so one of the members can ID them. Catfish can stay rather small like Oto's and most Corys but they can also get quite large and would get stunted and/or start turning on your other fish to get rid of the competition for space... basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. Also, go to http://fish.mongabay.com and do a search for the profiles on each of your fish. You have quite a mix of fish and some of them should be in groups so you might have to rethink your stocking. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 11:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrates I have a 55 gallon community tank with (12) 1"-1.5" fancy tail Guppies (2) 1.5" black fin Mollies (1) 3" large Angelfish (3) 2.5" swordtail Mollies (3) 1" Glowfish (1) 1" Cory cat (2) 4" Catfish that look like mini sharks??? (1) 2" painted silver dollar?? (I found out about the dye process, I wont buy another one!!) I have an eheim 2777 wet/dry, whisper pf-60 and a Emperor 400b for filtration. I have about 3" of gravel also. The lights are timed for 8 hours a day. as for plants, I have an 8" Amazon sword and a 4" Fern My nitrates always seem to stay in the 5-10 ppm depending on my weekly water changes (10-30 gallon). Nitrates never seem to go any higher but Im never at zero. Is this normal? Am I over stocked? Thanks PS Nemo is A-ok and back in his 55! _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080823-0, 08/23/2008 Tested on: 8/24/2008 12:27:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29342	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: New filter

Since AquaClears have such a large reservoir, when you make the change, just take your old filter media from the Penguin and stick it in with the AC filter media. If your Penguin has one of the cartridges, then just stick the cartridge where the water will flow over it first before going through the AC's filter media and that will help transfer the N-bacteria and get them growing in your AC. After a couple of weeks, you should be able to get rid of the old cartridge. If you have a little razor knife, you can just cut the blue filter floss media off of the Penguin filter and just put that in with the AC filter media and you wouldn't ever have to throw it away... just clean it when you do filter maintenance. I have a long article on my blog on how I do "Filter Maintenance & Cleaning" if you want to read up a lot more about that topic. Since your tank is "fairly well planted", what have your test results been showing, as far as nitrate levels, between PWC's? It could be that your plants are using up all of the ammonia/nitrite before your filter system even gets hold of the ammonia/nitrite to be able to put it through the nitrogen cycle. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 4:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New filter I am planning to change out a Penquin for an Aquaclear filter on a tank containing only immature mollies. I am concerned that such a change will harm the fish so I added extra filter media to the Penquin in preparation and am hoping that by adding the old filter water and extra filter media to the new filter that the change will not be too dramatic. In addition, the tank is fairly well planted. Have I thought of everything? Barbara _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080823-0, 08/23/2008 Tested on: 8/24/2008 12:34:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29343	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates

Adding to the replies of others, your nitrate will never (should never) be at zero, if your biological filtration is working, as the nitrobacters are (hopefully) continously breaking down your nitrites into nitrates. There are other bacteria that very slowly break down your nitrate even further, but this is a long process which is too time-consuming for the aquarist to rely on in the confines of an aquarium in any kind of a short time frame in hopes of promoting a more healthy aquarium. In addition to PWC's a healthy and growing aquatic plant population will use much of these excessive nitrates, which can help keep the level of it towards a minimum even if never at zero. Ray. </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29344	From: Chris	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Activated Charcoal and Nitrates

Does activated charcoal nuetralize ammonia and nitrates

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29345	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates

Actually I know I just said Nitrates should not be zero, but I do have a planted tank and they ARE zero to my surprise. It's not even heavily planted, no one could be more surprised than me. I know the test kit is working because I have no problem (LOL) getting high readings on my other tanks. The planted tank USED to have a Nitrate reading but it went away when I added Vallisneria and the lighting that they need to thrive. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 2:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrates Adding to the replies of others, your nitrate will never (should never) be at zero, if your biological filtration is working, as the nitrobacters are (hopefully) continously breaking down your nitrites into nitrates. There are other bacteria that very slowly break down your nitrate even further, but this is a long process which is too time-consuming for the aquarist to rely on in the confines of an aquarium in any kind of a short time frame in hopes of promoting a more healthy aquarium. In addition to PWC's a healthy and growing aquatic plant population will use much of these excessive nitrates, which can help keep the level of it towards a minimum even if never at zero. Ray. </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29346	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Charcoal and Nitrates

Charcoal has no impact on ammonia or nitrates. Charcoal has some very limited uses, but many of us don’t use it continuously anymore. Charcoal (a) can remove medications and (b) remove certain unwanted colors or smells from the water. Beneficial bacteria will consume ammonia, and water changes remove nitrates. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 2:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Activated Charcoal and Nitrates Does activated charcoal nuetralize ammonia and nitrates [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29347	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Charcoal and Nitrates

No. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 1:39 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Activated Charcoal and Nitrates Does activated charcoal nuetralize ammonia and nitrates ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29348	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: New filter

That's exactly what I would do. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 4:45 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] New filter I am planning to change out a Penquin for an Aquaclear filter on a tank containing only immature mollies. I am concerned that such a change will harm the fish so I added extra filter media to the Penquin in preparation and am hoping that by adding the old filter water and extra filter media to the new filter that the change will not be too dramatic. In addition, the tank is fairly well planted. Have I thought of everything? Barbara ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29349	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates

You're supposed to have low levels of nitrates. Just not nitrites or ammonia. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 11:27 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrates I have a 55 gallon community tank with (12) 1"-1.5" fancy tail Guppies (2) 1.5" black fin Mollies (1) 3" large Angelfish (3) 2.5" swordtail Mollies (3) 1" Glowfish (1) 1" Cory cat (2) 4" Catfish that look like mini sharks??? (1) 2" painted silver dollar?? (I found out about the dye process, I wont buy another one!!) I have an eheim 2777 wet/dry, whisper pf-60 and a Emperor 400b for filtration. I have about 3" of gravel also. The lights are timed for 8 hours a day. as for plants, I have an 8" Amazon sword and a 4" Fern My nitrates always seem to stay in the 5-10 ppm depending on my weekly water changes (10-30 gallon). Nitrates never seem to go any higher but Im never at zero. Is this normal? Am I over stocked? Thanks PS Nemo is A-ok and back in his 55! ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29350	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: New filter

Yeah, that would have been ideal, however, Faye was here for 3 days and with the power off and on, the old Penquin with the new impeller wasn't priming itself or doing much good, so I opted for a complete change. And, I must say I like the Aquaclear better. Barbara In a message dated 8/24/2008 12:51:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, djransome@... writes: What you did will probably work, but better would be to start up the Aquaclear on the existing tank 2 weeks before removing the Penguin (run them both together on the tank for 2 weeks). _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 5:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New filter I am planning to change out a Penquin for an Aquaclear filter on a tank containing only immature mollies. I am concerned that such a change will harm the fish so I added extra filter media to the Penquin in preparation and am hoping that by adding the old filter water and extra filter media to the new filter that the change will not be too dramatic. In addition, the tank is fairly well planted. Have I thought of everything? Barbara **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29351	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrates

> Actually I know I just said Nitrates should not be zero, but I do have a > planted tank and they ARE zero to my surprise. It's not even heavily > planted, no one could be more surprised than me. I know the test kit is > working because I have no problem (LOL) getting high readings on my other > tanks. > > > > The planted tank USED to have a Nitrate reading but it went away when I > added Vallisneria and the lighting that they need to thrive. Same here, and the same plant in fact. Both of my tanks are rather heavily planted though. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29352	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: New filter

Yes, I like the reservoir and have it stuffed with filter media from both my Penguins in place of the charcoal. I do not have a Nitrate test - however, I just tested the water and the results are the same as when this tank was set up only two weeks ago. (GH 160, KH 90, PH 7.6, NH3 -0- and NO2 0.3) So, my fingers are crossed. Barbara In a message dated 8/24/2008 1:34:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Since AquaClears have such a large reservoir, when you make the change, just take your old filter media from the Penguin and stick it in with the AC filter media. If your Penguin has one of the cartridges, then just stick the cartridge where the water will flow over it first before going through the AC's filter media and that will help transfer the N-bacteria and get them growing in your AC. After a couple of weeks, you should be able to get rid of the old cartridge. If you have a little razor knife, you can just cut the blue filter floss media off of the Penguin filter and just put that in with the AC filter media and you wouldn't ever have to throw it away... just clean it when you do filter maintenance. I have a long article on my blog on how I do "Filter Maintenance & Cleaning" if you want to read up a lot more about that topic. Since your tank is "fairly well planted", what have your test results been showing, as far as nitrate levels, between PWC's? It could be that your plants are using up all of the ammonia/nitrite before your filter system even gets hold of the ammonia/nitrite to be able to put it through the nitrogen cycle. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29353	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: peas for goldfish

Is it okay to give peas in a can or should they be frozen? Thanks Janis **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29354	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: peas for goldfish

Make sure they are the unsalted or low sodium ones in the can. I like the frozen better as you can just take a few out at a time as needed. I'm not sure how the canned ones will freeze or last in the fridge. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 5:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] peas for goldfish Is it okay to give peas in a can or should they be frozen? Thanks Janis _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080823-0, 08/23/2008 Tested on: 8/24/2008 6:06:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29355	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: peas for goldfish

The peas that have been frozen have more nutrients than the canned peas. You'll want to blanch them to be able to split them open to remove the shell. This time of year, you should start seeing fresh peas available, which are even better. Buy some for dinner, and reserve some for the fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] peas for goldfish Is it okay to give peas in a can or should they be frozen? Thanks Janis **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29356	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: peas for goldfish

I think that one is supposed to remove the outer skin from the pea, can be raw or cooked - but I should think it should be cut in tiny pieces unless you have big goldfish. I don't know. I understand they can be big fish. And it's hard to cut up cooked peas. Anyhow, they can be raw. I assume you're talking about the fresh green variety. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 6:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] peas for goldfish The peas that have been frozen have more nutrients than the canned peas. You'll want to blanch them to be able to split them open to remove the shell. This time of year, you should start seeing fresh peas available, which are even better. Buy some for dinner, and reserve some for the fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] peas for goldfish Is it okay to give peas in a can or should they be frozen? Thanks Janis **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29357	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: peas for goldfish

Thank you all I have a 46 gallon tank had 5 gold fish, only one now. (Hermione).I am very new to this BUT learning...... In a message dated 8/24/2008 7:09:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, steve@... writes: The peas that have been frozen have more nutrients than the canned peas. You'll want to blanch them to be able to split them open to remove the shell. This time of year, you should start seeing fresh peas available, which are even better. Buy some for dinner, and reserve some for the fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 6:26 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] peas for goldfish Is it okay to give peas in a can or should they be frozen? Thanks Janis ************************<WBR>**It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. deal here. (_http://information.http://infohttp://infhttp://informatihttp://in_ (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Charcoal and Nitrates

No, it does neither. There are filter media additives that will do both but they are not recommended for every day use. Zeolite is one of the more common ammonia absorbers and it's rechargeable so it's not a bad thing to keep around in case of an emergency but you don't want to run it full time in your tank as it will starve off your good nitrifying bacteria. There are also filter media products that will absorb nitrates and phosphates but they shouldn't be needed if a tank is being properly maintained. As the nitrate levels climb due to the nitrification process, the weekly 25% PWC's, or more frequent if needed, will keep the nitrates at an acceptable level. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 1:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Activated Charcoal and Nitrates Does activated charcoal nuetralize ammonia and nitrates _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080824-0, 08/24/2008 Tested on: 8/24/2008 7:58:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29359	From: Chris	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Water Test Kits

What are the most accurate, yet least costly test kits for aquarium use? What do you use to test your water?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29360	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

Tetra are possibly least costly, but not as good as API's which aren''t all that expensive. Most important to test nitrates, nitrites adn ammonia, followed by ph. You can usually get a pet store to test your water for general and carbonate hardness as that isn't usually something that changes in your tank. Well, the carbonate hardness can go down under some conditions but so would the ph. Also, once you get a tank going you only need to test once or twice a week. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits What are the most accurate, yet least costly test kits for aquarium use? What do you use to test your water? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29361	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

One of the most affordable and reasonably accurate test kits that many people use is the API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) Freshwater Master Test Kit.. usually around $15.00. I use this one and I also have another low cost master test kit from Tetra-Laborette. They both utilize test tubes and liquid reagents. The API kit changes to a color that is then matched on a color card to give you the reading where the Tetra-Laborette kit starts off at one color and then as you add drops of the reagent, it will abruptly change and the reading is based on the number of drops that you added so it's a little easier to tell the results. I've read a few online complaints where some folks have a tough time matching the color cards on some of the API tests. I find that using a room with fluorescent lighting or bright white lighting works best but Color-Blindness is also a concern for up to 20% of adults. You can check your eyes for free here... http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html I also have this page in my favorites folder but the site seems to be down right now... http://colorvisiontesting.com/ It was a more comprehensive color-blind test. I know that \\Steve// often talks highly of the Hagen Master Test Kit... at least I'm pretty sure that is the brand... but from my online shopping attempts, it's a higher priced test kit. I thought he said it used pre-measured packets of dry reagent chemicals but the kits below both had liquid reagent drops so maybe I'm thinking of the wrong brand name. I'm sure he'll reply also. Someone in the group recently posted about one brand of Multi-Test strips that was supposed to be as accurate as their API test kits but I do not recall the brand name. I've tried the Mardel brand but found them to be very inconsistent. The dip-stick tests, while quick, are not usually as accurate and they are far more expensive when you look at the total number of tests, usually 25 or 50 dip sticks in a bottle, so less than a year if weekly tests are done but when first setting up a tank, you will be doing more than that and using several tests at a time if you aren't sure of the results. Compared to one of the Master Test Kits that will last a long time... usually a couple of years, even with frequent testing on a newly set up tank. My biggest complaint with the two Master Test Kits that I've used and use are that they go out of date before I finish all of the available chemicals. Here's a few links to the Master Test Kit pages from several online sources. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~test_kits__index.html (Does have the Hagen as well as the other test kits mentioned in this reply but the Hagen Master Kit is over $100.00... yikes!!!) http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits (Does have the NutraFin - from Hagen - Kit for $93.00 and the other two mentioned above as well.) http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105 (Wally-World has the API and Tetra-Laborette) http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23826/category.web (Has the two lower priced kits I mentioned) http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4345+17338 (same) http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits&f=Taxonom y%2FPET%2F2769275&fbc=1&categoryId=2769275&view=all> &f=Taxonomy%2FPET%2F2769275&fbc=1&categoryId=2769275&view=all (Has the API kit) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits What are the most accurate, yet least costly test kits for aquarium use? What do you use to test your water? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/25/2008 11:28:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29362	From: Chris	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Plants, Hardwater, Amonia, Nitrates, and cycling

Its been along time since I've had an aquarium. It seemed like every time I tried having one, my fish always ended up dying on me. I attribute that to my ignorance on proper maintenance. Recently I learned about aquaponics (a form of hydroponics) and how tank water can be used as a nutrient source to grow plants. I read that when an aquarium is used to grow plants the fish tend to be healthier. I will be keeping a grow tray above the thank and water will be constantly pumped through the tray and fed back into the aquarium. Since gardening is a love of mine I figure I would give having an aquarium another run. I don't know how many people here would have the experience to answer these questions, but its worth a shot! Hard water - I live in a hard water area. How bad is hard water to fish? As plants take in the nutrients, will they absorb the minerals in the water and soften it? It seems like it should since plants use minerals, but I'm not sure if the minerals in hard water are in a form plants can absorb. If the minerals in hard water are not usable to my plants, what can I use that is non toxic to humans to soften the water? I read baking soda is a good alternative? How can I use baking soda in a 20 gallon tank? Ammonia and Nitrates - These are nutrients plants use for green growth. I'm starting with green leafy vegetables like lettuce (light feeder) and spinach (a heavy feeder). Lettuce likes its liquid nutrient source to be around 560-840 ppm and spinach likes 1260-1610ppm. With that said, and providing there is enough plants in the tray, I shouldn't have to worry about ammonia and nitrate levels right? Cycling - With the plants there to absorb nitrates and possibly ammonia, do I still need to worry about cycling the tank, or is cycling still necessary, but speeds up the process? Partial water changes and gravel siphoning - Will I still need to do weekly partial water changes? Will a monthly siphoning of the gravel still be a necessary chore, or does that depend on filtration and how clean the fish like its water to be?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29363	From: Richard Haley	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Plants, Hardwater, Amonia, Nitrates, and cycling

Chris I recommend using some sort of ion exchange resin for the hardwater, or perhaps you could buy the water softener pillows that can be bought at just about any local fish store also look into seachem products they have some great stuff. As for the plants they will take up all forms of nitrogen i.e. nitrate, nitrites, and ammonia, also they require iron, phosphorus, and alot of other nutrients so your plants should grow quite well but you will probably have to supplement the plants due in part to the water lacking in some nutrients. I hope this was of some help.   Richard  --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: From: Chris <crjm28@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants, Hardwater, Amonia, Nitrates, and cycling To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 12:18 PM Its been along time since I've had an aquarium. It seemed like every time I tried having one, my fish always ended up dying on me. I attribute that to my ignorance on proper maintenance. Recently I learned about aquaponics (a form of hydroponics) and how tank water can be used as a nutrient source to grow plants. I read that when an aquarium is used to grow plants the fish tend to be healthier. I will be keeping a grow tray above the thank and water will be constantly pumped through the tray and fed back into the aquarium. Since gardening is a love of mine I figure I would give having an aquarium another run. I don't know how many people here would have the experience to answer these questions, but its worth a shot! Hard water - I live in a hard water area. How bad is hard water to fish? As plants take in the nutrients, will they absorb the minerals in the water and soften it? It seems like it should since plants use minerals, but I'm not sure if the minerals in hard water are in a form plants can absorb. If the minerals in hard water are not usable to my plants, what can I use that is non toxic to humans to soften the water? I read baking soda is a good alternative? How can I use baking soda in a 20 gallon tank? Ammonia and Nitrates - These are nutrients plants use for green growth. I'm starting with green leafy vegetables like lettuce (light feeder) and spinach (a heavy feeder). Lettuce likes its liquid nutrient source to be around 560-840 ppm and spinach likes 1260-1610ppm. With that said, and providing there is enough plants in the tray, I shouldn't have to worry about ammonia and nitrate levels right? Cycling - With the plants there to absorb nitrates and possibly ammonia, do I still need to worry about cycling the tank, or is cycling still necessary, but speeds up the process? Partial water changes and gravel siphoning - Will I still need to do weekly partial water changes? Will a monthly siphoning of the gravel still be a necessary chore, or does that depend on filtration and how clean the fish like its water to be? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29364	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Plants, Hardwater, Amonia, Nitrates, and cycling

I meant to reply to the original post but I guess I marked it as read instead of unread. Chris, What are your water parameters? "Hard water" can have a wide range of actual parameters. You need to do the baseline test that I told you about in an earlier reply. I have a blog article on "Establishing Your Tap/Source Water Baseline". Post your numbers for 1) Right out the tap, 2) 24 hours later and 3) 48 hours later so we can see what is really happening with your water. You may not need to do anything to it. I have what would be considered "hard water" and I do not have to do anything to my water except for my weekly PWC's. There are enough buffers in my water to keep the pH stabile and above 7.5 between weekly PWC's. If you are going to have a lot of plants trying to thrive off of your system, then you would likely have to add an aquarium safe fertilizer product. You could probably find out more about this at an aquaponics specific forum since aquarium plants intake fertilizers a little different... many get the nutrients right through the leaves... where terrestrial plants get their nutrients (other than CO2) through the roots so I'm not sure if aquarium plant fertilizer products would provide the needed nutrients for terrestrial plants strictly through the water column. Usually, aquarium plants have a substrate that also provides some nutrients besides the dosing of liquid fertilizer that may be done as needed. You should also check up on the plants you are considering to see what kind of water, pH, etc., that they prefer. If they were aquarium plants, I could direct you to resources to give you this info but I know almost nothing about terrestrial plants/gardening.... water them and they either live or die. If they live.. great.. if they die... buy some more the next time I see them on sale! LOL As far as cycling and whether you will have to do it. That would depend on your bioload and plant's ability to handle the waste from the bioload. You would be best to "Fishless Cycle" (instructions on my blog) the tank with the 4-5ppm of ammonia so that you would build up a full nitrifying bacteria colony in your filter system and tank. Then add your fish and plants and whatever N-bacteria are not needed will die off and grow as the ecology of the tank dictates. I'm just not sure how fast the terrestrial plants will suck up the ammonia from the tank compared to aquatic plants since the aquatic plants are fully submerged versus only the roots in the terrestrial plants. Also, you mention a "nutrient source... 560ppm... to ... 1610ppm..." but I am not sure what this represents. Can you provide a link to a webpage that explains what this level of "nutrient source" is? None of the nutrients that we have in aquaria are any where near those levels and would likely harm or kill the fish if they ever reached those levels. We deal with nitrate levels of no more than 40ppm and ammonia/nitrite levels of 0.0ppm after a tank is cycled and less than 1.0ppm of ammonia/nitrite in a tank that is being cycled with fish... which is not recommended. In a "normal" tank and filter system, we recommend vacuuming the gravel on a weekly to bi-weekly basis, depending on the bioload of the tank, but going a month is not recommended as too much detritus can build up unless the tank is very lightly stocked. In your case, like I previously posted, you should consider getting a UGF filter system or a RUGF system so that the gravel will be kept cleaner and the detritus will be put into suspension to be utilized by the aquaponic filter system you are planning. All the detritus in the gravel will not be nearly as good for your fish or your terrestrial plants. ALL fish like clean water. They may sometimes survive in funky water but think about it... what would you prefer for water if you were a fish... clean or funky? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Haley Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants, Hardwater, Amonia, Nitrates, and cycling Chris I recommend using some sort of ion exchange resin for the hardwater, or perhaps you could buy the water softener pillows that can be bought at just about any local fish store also look into seachem products they have some great stuff. As for the plants they will take up all forms of nitrogen i.e. nitrate, nitrites, and ammonia, also they require iron, phosphorus, and alot of other nutrients so your plants should grow quite well but you will probably have to supplement the plants due in part to the water lacking in some nutrients. I hope this was of some help. Richard --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Chris <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: Chris <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants, Hardwater, Amonia, Nitrates, and cycling To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 12:18 PM Its been along time since I've had an aquarium. It seemed like every time I tried having one, my fish always ended up dying on me. I attribute that to my ignorance on proper maintenance. Recently I learned about aquaponics (a form of hydroponics) and how tank water can be used as a nutrient source to grow plants. I read that when an aquarium is used to grow plants the fish tend to be healthier. I will be keeping a grow tray above the thank and water will be constantly pumped through the tray and fed back into the aquarium. Since gardening is a love of mine I figure I would give having an aquarium another run. I don't know how many people here would have the experience to answer these questions, but its worth a shot! Hard water - I live in a hard water area. How bad is hard water to fish? As plants take in the nutrients, will they absorb the minerals in the water and soften it? It seems like it should since plants use minerals, but I'm not sure if the minerals in hard water are in a form plants can absorb. If the minerals in hard water are not usable to my plants, what can I use that is non toxic to humans to soften the water? I read baking soda is a good alternative? How can I use baking soda in a 20 gallon tank? Ammonia and Nitrates - These are nutrients plants use for green growth. I'm starting with green leafy vegetables like lettuce (light feeder) and spinach (a heavy feeder). Lettuce likes its liquid nutrient source to be around 560-840 ppm and spinach likes 1260-1610ppm. With that said, and providing there is enough plants in the tray, I shouldn't have to worry about ammonia and nitrate levels right? Cycling - With the plants there to absorb nitrates and possibly ammonia, do I still need to worry about cycling the tank, or is cycling still necessary, but speeds up the process? Partial water changes and gravel siphoning - Will I still need to do weekly partial water changes? Will a monthly siphoning of the gravel still be a necessary chore, or does that depend on filtration and how clean the fish like its water to be? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/25/2008 5:40:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29365	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: can i add 2 fish links

or can u ???????????

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29366	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: goldfish

does any body here have gold fish? how galloons do u think per fish ?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29367	From: pscottdouglass	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Plants

Can you use plants found in your yard for your aquarium? Like grass as a forground plant, and general other plants found pretty much anywhere. Could I give these a try wothout killing my fish?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29368	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: onion plant in gold fish tank

can i cut it back, or how can i make it stop getting so large

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29369	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish

I have13 outside in my 1200gallon pond. They seem quite happy there <g> texas_tears2000 wrote: > does any body here have gold fish? > how galloons do u think per fish ?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Plants

For the most part, No. Terrestrial plants and even bog plants will die after a short time being fully submerged and will then foul your water as they decompose. I've seen places like PetsMart selling Mondo grass as an aquatic plant but they are bog plants at best and will not last long submerged so you should be careful what you buy as aquatic plants also. Here's a couple of links of easy and very easy to grow plants and the profiles (click on the green name) also show you best placement of each plant, plant care, etc.. There are several options available as a foreground grassy type plant. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> &filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> &filter_by=3 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pscottdouglass Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants Can you use plants found in your yard for your aquarium? Like grass as a forground plant, and general other plants found pretty much anywhere. Could I give these a try wothout killing my fish? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/25/2008 9:20:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29371	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish

Yep.. sounds good. Around 100G per common/comet goldfish for ponds is a good place to be. For fancy goldfish kept in a tank, two fancy goldfish in a 55G+ tank works as long as there is good filtration and frequent PWC's (partial water changes). Remember that an full grown goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish and that is one of the main reasons they need so much water to dilute their waste in between PWC's. I have my goldfish care sheet on my blog with plenty of references. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Badeen Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] goldfish I have13 outside in my 1200gallon pond. They seem quite happy there <g> texas_tears2000 wrote: > does any body here have gold fish? > how galloons do u think per fish ? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/25/2008 9:30:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29372	From: tillmanalbany	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: New w/sick fish

I am hoping someone can give me advice. I am new to this, I have a newly cycled 30 gallon fresh water tank. I started with one tetra, (doing fine), then a week later added 3 Balloon Belly Mollys and a Kuhli Loach. That was about four days ago. Today I noticed one of the mollys hanging out on the bottom. He showed some interest in the morning feeding, but not much. Now he is not leaving the bottom corner of the tank and the Kuhli Loach is occasionally nipping at him. I did a test on the water and it all looks fine except the alkalinity is a little low at 40. Suggestions? Thanks, Peggy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29373	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

Cost is not a real factor here. What is a factor is how the kit performs. The better performing ones are more expensive, and that is why they are more expensive. I prefer the AquaTru kits by Kordon. Not only are they accurate, and the reagents premeasured and dated for expiration, the vials are unique. One thing that many people do not realize is that even if the water looks to be clear in your aquarium, it is not. There is almost always some discoloration. The design of the vial allows you to compensate for the discoloration of the water to give you a more accurate reading of the test results. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits What are the most accurate, yet least costly test kits for aquarium use? What do you use to test your water?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29374	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish

You should remove the ill fish to a quarantine tank. A 5G or 10G tank works great as a Q-tank and you can often find them for free on places like FreeCycle.org. Then all you would need is a low cost bubble filter for under $10.00.. or possibly for free too. Quite often, other fish will nip and harass a sick fish until it is so stressed that it dies. It's just basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. It's why the sick fish is trying to hide in a corner. If your tank was heavily planted, the sick fish would be hiding as best as possible behind plants to avoid drawing attention to itself. What are your other water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you may have like GH and KH? Your alkalinity test is probably the GH (general hardness) test which means your water is very soft so you may need to buffer it up but we need your other test results to know for certain. Also, we would need your tap water baseline test results (see my blog). How long has the tank been set up? Did you fishless cycle the tank or were you cycling with fish? Was your tank water parameters identical or nearly identical to the water at the pet store? Often, not acclimating new fish slowly enough will cause them pH or osmotic stress issues resulting in health issues. It could just be an isolated incident of a new fish having health problems related to being shipped around multiple times as stress will cause fish to have immune system issues which makes them more susceptible to minor pathogens they would normally be resistant to. I'm also worried that if you did not fishless cycle the tank, you may have added too many new fish too quickly and your tank could be having an ammonia/nitrite spike. Once again, the test results would clarify this for us. Here is a profile and care sheet for Kuhli Loaches http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html and for Livebearers (Mollies, etc.) http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New w/sick fish I am hoping someone can give me advice. I am new to this, I have a newly cycled 30 gallon fresh water tank. I started with one tetra, (doing fine), then a week later added 3 Balloon Belly Mollys and a Kuhli Loach. That was about four days ago. Today I noticed one of the mollys hanging out on the bottom. He showed some interest in the morning feeding, but not much. Now he is not leaving the bottom corner of the tank and the Kuhli Loach is occasionally nipping at him. I did a test on the water and it all looks fine except the alkalinity is a little low at 40. Suggestions? Thanks, Peggy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/25/2008 10:41:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29375	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

I'm glad you replied. One day, I'm going to remember the AquaTru kits from Kordon. I knew I had it wrong when I was saying that you recommended the Hagen NutraFin kits. I just never see the Kordon AquaTru test kits at any of my local or online sources. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits Cost is not a real factor here. What is a factor is how the kit performs. The better performing ones are more expensive, and that is why they are more expensive. I prefer the AquaTru kits by Kordon. Not only are they accurate, and the reagents premeasured and dated for expiration, the vials are unique. One thing that many people do not realize is that even if the water looks to be clear in your aquarium, it is not. There is almost always some discoloration. The design of the vial allows you to compensate for the discoloration of the water to give you a more accurate reading of the test results. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits What are the most accurate, yet least costly test kits for aquarium use? What do you use to test your water? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/25/2008 10:45:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29376	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

They are tough to find. Part of the reason is the cost, and with most Americans shopping on price rather than quality, most places do not care to carry them, because they will not sell. This is also the reason why the Germans and Japanese get fish we cannot get. They are willing to pay the price. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits I'm glad you replied. One day, I'm going to remember the AquaTru kits from Kordon. I knew I had it wrong when I was saying that you recommended the Hagen NutraFin kits. I just never see the Kordon AquaTru test kits at any of my local or online sources. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits Cost is not a real factor here. What is a factor is how the kit performs. The better performing ones are more expensive, and that is why they are more expensive. I prefer the AquaTru kits by Kordon. Not only are they accurate, and the reagents premeasured and dated for expiration, the vials are unique. One thing that many people do not realize is that even if the water looks to be clear in your aquarium, it is not. There is almost always some discoloration. The design of the vial allows you to compensate for the discoloration of the water to give you a more accurate reading of the test results. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits What are the most accurate, yet least costly test kits for aquarium use? What do you use to test your water?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29377	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

If you can find the API master kit for $15, then Lenny's right, it a good deal relative to the individual kits. However I've found them at closer to $30. I do have trouble distinguishing the subtle color differences on the API color cards, and I'm not at all color blind. The good news is that the subtlety matters more to the fanatics on these lists than it does to the fish. In time you'll learn by experience what color for the ammonia test is really 0, what color is really .25, and what color is really .5, partly by experience correlating the shades with fish health and happiness. Also low levels of ammonia are most toxic at high ph levels. If you can maintain a ph below 7.5 you can have an ammonia level of .5. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:28 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits One of the most affordable and reasonably accurate test kits that many people use is the API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) Freshwater Master Test Kit.. usually around $15.00. I use this one and I also have another low cost master test kit from Tetra-Laborette. They both utilize test tubes and liquid reagents. The API kit changes to a color that is then matched on a color card to give you the reading where the Tetra-Laborette kit starts off at one color and then as you add drops of the reagent, it will abruptly change and the reading is based on the number of drops that you added so it's a little easier to tell the results. I've read a few online complaints where some folks have a tough time matching the color cards on some of the API tests. I find that using a room with fluorescent lighting or bright white lighting works best but Color-Blindness is also a concern for up to 20% of adults. You can check your eyes for free here... http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html I also have this page in my favorites folder but the site seems to be down right now... http://colorvisiontesting.com/ It was a more comprehensive color-blind test. I know that \\Steve// often talks highly of the Hagen Master Test Kit... at least I'm pretty sure that is the brand... but from my online shopping attempts, it's a higher priced test kit. I thought he said it used pre-measured packets of dry reagent chemicals but the kits below both had liquid reagent drops so maybe I'm thinking of the wrong brand name. I'm sure he'll reply also. Someone in the group recently posted about one brand of Multi-Test strips that was supposed to be as accurate as their API test kits but I do not recall the brand name. I've tried the Mardel brand but found them to be very inconsistent. The dip-stick tests, while quick, are not usually as accurate and they are far more expensive when you look at the total number of tests, usually 25 or 50 dip sticks in a bottle, so less than a year if weekly tests are done but when first setting up a tank, you will be doing more than that and using several tests at a time if you aren't sure of the results. Compared to one of the Master Test Kits that will last a long time... usually a couple of years, even with frequent testing on a newly set up tank. My biggest complaint with the two Master Test Kits that I've used and use are that they go out of date before I finish all of the available chemicals. Here's a few links to the Master Test Kit pages from several online sources. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~test_kits__index.html (Does have the Hagen as well as the other test kits mentioned in this reply but the Hagen Master Kit is over $100.00... yikes!!!) http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits (Does have the NutraFin - from Hagen - Kit for $93.00 and the other two mentioned above as well.) http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105 (Wally-World has the API and Tetra-Laborette) http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23826/category.web (Has the two lower priced kits I mentioned) http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4345+17338 (same) http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits&f=Taxonom y%2FPET%2F2769275&fbc=1&categoryId=2769275&view=all> &f=Taxonomy%2FPET%2F2769275&fbc=1&categoryId=2769275&view=all (Has the API kit) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits What are the most accurate, yet least costly test kits for aquarium use? What do you use to test your water? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/25/2008 11:28:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29378	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish

As you can gather from the two other replies so far, at least 30 gallons per fish for goldfish. You can keep two in a 55, but you do need to keep a weather eye on the water quality and do frequent, minimum once a week, 25% water changes. If you change water more often, then, you can change a bit less each time. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] goldfish does any body here have gold fish? how galloons do u think per fish ?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29379	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

> They are tough to find. Part of the reason is the cost, and with most > Americans shopping on price rather than quality, most places do not care > to carry them, because they will not sell. This is also the reason why > the Germans and Japanese get fish we cannot get. They are willing to pay > the price. > > \\Steve// Where are you getting your kits? I have had no lock finding them. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29380	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

I decided to do some more digging and found the following sites that sell the Kordon AquaTru Master Test Kits and individual kits. This is one of Kordon's home pages where they sell their stuff themselves. I would probably get the top test kit that includes both high and low nitrate and pH ranges although the low nitrate range isn't really needed for FW. My second option would be the second item in the list and then purchase a separate low pH range kit. The master test kits are actually on sale on the Novalek site right now for either $79.99 or $49.99 respectively. http://www.novalek.net/vshop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=13 <http://www.novalek.net/vshop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=13&cat=Aquarium+Tes t+Kits> &cat=Aquarium+Test+Kits I also found the kits on Fish.com for $69.99 and $48.29 respectively... also on sale right now. If the link breaks, just go to http://www.fish.com and click on the Aquarium Test Kits link and the Kordon kits are on page two. http://www.fish.com/search.asp?resultType= <http://www.fish.com/search.asp?resultType=&query=&hits=24&offset=24&path=cF ISHproducts%23%23%2D1%23%23%2D1%7E%7Eq20%7E%7EncFISHp103%23%232%23%233&sortD irection=> &query=&hits=24&offset=24&path=cFISHproducts%23%23%2D1%23%23%2D1%7E%7Eq20%7E %7EncFISHp103%23%232%23%233&sortDirection= These appear to only give 10 of each test so the individual tests can be quite pricey. For the initial set up of a tank where the hobbyist might be testing the water quite frequently during the cycling process, it would probably be better to get the API FW Master Test Kit and then use the Kordon AquaTru test kit for regular monitoring of their tanks once they have a fully established ecosystem. One of the things that I saw with the Kordon test tubes is that they have two tubes as part of the test tube so that one side is filled with plain aquarium water and the other side is where the reagent drops are added. Then you slide in the color card behind both tubes and when you compare the colors, you are comparing them through the clear of partially colored aquarium water on one side so the color card is also changed slightly for a better color comparison.... I hope I explained this OK. LOL You can see the test tubes, etc., 1/2 way down on this page... http://www.novalek.com/kordon/aquatru/index.htm# Maybe.. just maybe... after doing all this research, I'll remember the right product name in the future. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:12 PM To: Aquaria 2 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits > They are tough to find. Part of the reason is the cost, and with most > Americans shopping on price rather than quality, most places do not > care to carry them, because they will not sell. This is also the > reason why the Germans and Japanese get fish we cannot get. They are > willing to pay the price. > > \\Steve// Where are you getting your kits? I have had no lock finding them. Dana Rasmussen Seattle _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/25/2008 11:55:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29381	From: tillmanalbany	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish

Hi Lenny I have one other empty tank, a 20G, that I could set up this evening as a Q-tank. For tonight I would have to take the Whisper filter from the 30G they are in now, and that would only leave the Power Head attached to the lift tube in that tank. Will that be okay for tonight? How do I get the 20G cycled tonight for the one sick fish? The readings are: Nitrate 10, Nitrite 0, Hardness 75, Chlorie 0, Alkalinity 40, PH 7.2 I set up the tank 2 weeks ago and used fish to cycle it. I don't know how the water compared to the fish store, but I took about 30 minutes of adding my tank's water to the bagged fish before adding the four fish to the tank. I await your continued advice for the sick mollie. Thanks. Peggy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You should remove the ill fish to a quarantine tank. A 5G or 10G tank works > great as a Q-tank and you can often find them for free on places like > FreeCycle.org. Then all you would need is a low cost bubble filter for > under $10.00.. or possibly for free too. Quite often, other fish will nip > and harass a sick fish until it is so stressed that it dies. It's just > basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. It's why the sick fish is > trying to hide in a corner. If your tank was heavily planted, the sick fish > would be hiding as best as possible behind plants to avoid drawing attention > to itself. > > What are your other water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any > other tests you may have like GH and KH? Your alkalinity test is probably > the GH (general hardness) test which means your water is very soft so you > may need to buffer it up but we need your other test results to know for > certain. > > Also, we would need your tap water baseline test results (see my blog). > > How long has the tank been set up? Did you fishless cycle the tank or were > you cycling with fish? Was your tank water parameters identical or nearly > identical to the water at the pet store? Often, not acclimating new fish > slowly enough will cause them pH or osmotic stress issues resulting in > health issues. > > It could just be an isolated incident of a new fish having health problems > related to being shipped around multiple times as stress will cause fish to > have immune system issues which makes them more susceptible to minor > pathogens they would normally be resistant to. I'm also worried that if you > did not fishless cycle the tank, you may have added too many new fish too > quickly and your tank could be having an ammonia/nitrite spike. Once again, > the test results would clarify this for us. > > Here is a profile and care sheet for Kuhli Loaches > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html and for Livebearers > (Mollies, etc.) http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of tillmanalbany > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New w/sick fish > > I am hoping someone can give me advice. I am new to this, I have a newly > cycled 30 gallon fresh water tank. I started with one tetra, (doing fine), > then a week later added 3 Balloon Belly Mollys and a Kuhli Loach. That was > about four days ago. Today I noticed one of the mollys hanging out on the > bottom. He showed some interest in the morning feeding, but not much. Now he > is not leaving the bottom corner of the tank and the Kuhli Loach is > occasionally nipping at him. > > I did a test on the water and it all looks fine except the alkalinity is a > little low at 40. > > Suggestions? > > Thanks, Peggy > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 > Tested on: 8/25/2008 10:41:08 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29382	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish

You need an ammonia test kit. I strongly suspect that elevated ammonia levels is your problem since the tank has only been set up for two weeks. Cycling with fish takes 6-8+ weeks to get the initial cycle started and then each time you add more fish, it's another week or two of ammonia/nitrite issues as the nitrifying bacteria colony grows to compensate for the added bioload of new fish. Since I doubt that your main tank is even cycled, there's not much you can do to get the Q-tank cycled. Normally, this could be accomplished by taking some of the filter media or gravel from a cycled tank and adding it to the filter of the Q-tank and it would be cycled for a single fish without too much of a problem although testing for ammonia/nitrite is still recommended. For now, move the ill fish to the separate tank and fill it 1/2 way with water from the 30G so the fish doesn't have to deal with changing water parameters again. Then you can add a gallon or two of tap water to the Q-tank every few hours until it is mostly full so the fish can acclimate to any changes. Since I doubt your main tank is cycled yet, just move the smaller of the filter systems to the Q-tank and leave the larger filter system in the bigger tank. Is the powerhead connected to a lift tube to a UGF (under gravel filter) system in the main tank? You should also go out and get some Prime water conditioner as it will make the ammonia non-toxic or less toxic when cycling with fish but you will still have to monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels and do PWC's as needed to keep them at non-lethal levels below 1.0ppm. Ultimately, once the tank is fully cycled, your ammonia/nitrite levels should ALWAYS be 0.0ppm. Use it in both the main tank and the Q-tank for now and add a pinch of salt to both tanks which will help protect against nitrite poisoning. You can't add too much salt to the main tank as I do not think that Kuhli's tolerate salt very well but a pinch won't bother them and that is all that is needed to protect against nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder). For the Q-tank, you can increase the salt level slowly over the course of 24 hours to treatment level of 3 teaspoons per gallon. Start off with 1 teaspoon per gallon, then add another 1 teaspoon per gallon at the 12 hour mark and the last 1 teaspoon per gallon at the 24 hour mark. Dissolve the salt in some removed tank water first and then slowly pour it back into the tank where the water is flowing back from the filter. Take care not to pour the solution too closely to the ill fish since you don't want it getting hit with such a high salt concentration all at once. Normally, a nitrate level of 10ppm might mean that a tank is cycled but it's quite possible that your tap/source water has that level of nitrates in it so you should do a tap/source water baseline test so you will know what your starting point is and then you will know more about what is happening to the water once it is affected by the ecology of your tank. The EPA has the safe levels of nitrates in America's household water supply as no more than 10ppm and most communities have much lower than that level but some communities go much higher. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New w/sick fish Hi Lenny I have one other empty tank, a 20G, that I could set up this evening as a Q-tank. For tonight I would have to take the Whisper filter from the 30G they are in now, and that would only leave the Power Head attached to the lift tube in that tank. Will that be okay for tonight? How do I get the 20G cycled tonight for the one sick fish? The readings are: Nitrate 10, Nitrite 0, Hardness 75, Chlorie 0, Alkalinity 40, PH 7.2 I set up the tank 2 weeks ago and used fish to cycle it. I don't know how the water compared to the fish store, but I took about 30 minutes of adding my tank's water to the bagged fish before adding the four fish to the tank. I await your continued advice for the sick mollie. Thanks. Peggy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You should remove the ill fish to a quarantine tank. A 5G or 10G tank works > great as a Q-tank and you can often find them for free on places like > FreeCycle.org. Then all you would need is a low cost bubble filter for > under $10.00.. or possibly for free too. Quite often, other fish will nip > and harass a sick fish until it is so stressed that it dies. It's just > basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. It's why the sick fish is > trying to hide in a corner. If your tank was heavily planted, the sick fish > would be hiding as best as possible behind plants to avoid drawing attention > to itself. > > What are your other water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any > other tests you may have like GH and KH? Your alkalinity test is probably > the GH (general hardness) test which means your water is very soft so you > may need to buffer it up but we need your other test results to know for > certain. > > Also, we would need your tap water baseline test results (see my blog). > > How long has the tank been set up? Did you fishless cycle the tank or were > you cycling with fish? Was your tank water parameters identical or nearly > identical to the water at the pet store? Often, not acclimating new fish > slowly enough will cause them pH or osmotic stress issues resulting in > health issues. > > It could just be an isolated incident of a new fish having health problems > related to being shipped around multiple times as stress will cause fish to > have immune system issues which makes them more susceptible to minor > pathogens they would normally be resistant to. I'm also worried that if you > did not fishless cycle the tank, you may have added too many new fish too > quickly and your tank could be having an ammonia/nitrite spike. Once again, > the test results would clarify this for us. > > Here is a profile and care sheet for Kuhli Loaches > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html> and for Livebearers > (Mollies, etc.) http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of tillmanalbany > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New w/sick fish > > I am hoping someone can give me advice. I am new to this, I have a newly > cycled 30 gallon fresh water tank. I started with one tetra, (doing fine), > then a week later added 3 Balloon Belly Mollys and a Kuhli Loach. That was > about four days ago. Today I noticed one of the mollys hanging out on the > bottom. He showed some interest in the morning feeding, but not much. Now he > is not leaving the bottom corner of the tank and the Kuhli Loach is > occasionally nipping at him. > > I did a test on the water and it all looks fine except the alkalinity is a > little low at 40. > > Suggestions? > > Thanks, Peggy > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 12:17:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29383	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish

One other thing you should do as a new aquarist. Go to my blog and click on the link to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the top of that page, there are links to two different free online tutorials. I would suggest you read through one or both of them so you will get more of the basics of fish keeping. Feel free to come here and ask any and all questions you may have. We are here to help. BTW.. you can use plain table salt for the treatment. You do not have to go out and buy so-called aquarium salt. It's all the same thing... NaCl (Sodium Chloride). Even Iodized salt has so little iodide in it that it will not affect your fish for normal treatment levels in a tank. For ponds, Iodide is affected by sunlight so that's a slightly different story but your tank shouldn't be getting much sunlight in your home. Here's a couple of more detailed articles about using Salt as a treatment if you want to know more about it's uses. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Kebus_Salt_Treatments.html I don't believe folks should be using it full time in their tanks except for fish that might do OK with salt full-time like most livebearers. For most other FW fish, salt affects their osmoregulatory system in ways that are not natural since they are freshwater fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New w/sick fish Hi Lenny I have one other empty tank, a 20G, that I could set up this evening as a Q-tank. For tonight I would have to take the Whisper filter from the 30G they are in now, and that would only leave the Power Head attached to the lift tube in that tank. Will that be okay for tonight? How do I get the 20G cycled tonight for the one sick fish? The readings are: Nitrate 10, Nitrite 0, Hardness 75, Chlorie 0, Alkalinity 40, PH 7.2 I set up the tank 2 weeks ago and used fish to cycle it. I don't know how the water compared to the fish store, but I took about 30 minutes of adding my tank's water to the bagged fish before adding the four fish to the tank. I await your continued advice for the sick mollie. Thanks. Peggy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You should remove the ill fish to a quarantine tank. A 5G or 10G tank works > great as a Q-tank and you can often find them for free on places like > FreeCycle.org. Then all you would need is a low cost bubble filter for > under $10.00.. or possibly for free too. Quite often, other fish will nip > and harass a sick fish until it is so stressed that it dies. It's just > basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. It's why the sick fish is > trying to hide in a corner. If your tank was heavily planted, the sick fish > would be hiding as best as possible behind plants to avoid drawing attention > to itself. > > What are your other water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any > other tests you may have like GH and KH? Your alkalinity test is probably > the GH (general hardness) test which means your water is very soft so you > may need to buffer it up but we need your other test results to know for > certain. > > Also, we would need your tap water baseline test results (see my blog). > > How long has the tank been set up? Did you fishless cycle the tank or were > you cycling with fish? Was your tank water parameters identical or nearly > identical to the water at the pet store? Often, not acclimating new fish > slowly enough will cause them pH or osmotic stress issues resulting in > health issues. > > It could just be an isolated incident of a new fish having health problems > related to being shipped around multiple times as stress will cause fish to > have immune system issues which makes them more susceptible to minor > pathogens they would normally be resistant to. I'm also worried that if you > did not fishless cycle the tank, you may have added too many new fish too > quickly and your tank could be having an ammonia/nitrite spike. Once again, > the test results would clarify this for us. > > Here is a profile and care sheet for Kuhli Loaches > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html> and for Livebearers > (Mollies, etc.) http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of tillmanalbany > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New w/sick fish > > I am hoping someone can give me advice. I am new to this, I have a newly > cycled 30 gallon fresh water tank. I started with one tetra, (doing fine), > then a week later added 3 Balloon Belly Mollys and a Kuhli Loach. That was > about four days ago. Today I noticed one of the mollys hanging out on the > bottom. He showed some interest in the morning feeding, but not much. Now he > is not leaving the bottom corner of the tank and the Kuhli Loach is > occasionally nipping at him. > > I did a test on the water and it all looks fine except the alkalinity is a > little low at 40. > > Suggestions? > > Thanks, Peggy > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 12:29:52 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29384	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

Try www.fish.com. Whenever I need reagents, I need to do a search to find someone on the web, or wait until I go back home, though I heard the store I was purchasing at has now closed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:12 AM To: Aquaria 2 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits > They are tough to find. Part of the reason is the cost, and with most > Americans shopping on price rather than quality, most places do not care > to carry them, because they will not sell. This is also the reason why > the Germans and Japanese get fish we cannot get. They are willing to pay > the price. > > \\Steve// Where are you getting your kits? I have had no lock finding them. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29385	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

Lenny, As I said, a unique vial design that lets one easily determine the true color the test is displaying. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits I decided to do some more digging and found the following sites that sell the Kordon AquaTru Master Test Kits and individual kits. This is one of Kordon's home pages where they sell their stuff themselves. I would probably get the top test kit that includes both high and low nitrate and pH ranges although the low nitrate range isn't really needed for FW. My second option would be the second item in the list and then purchase a separate low pH range kit. The master test kits are actually on sale on the Novalek site right now for either $79.99 or $49.99 respectively. http://www.novalek.net/vshop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=13 <http://www.novalek.net/vshop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=13&cat=Aquarium +Tes t+Kits> &cat=Aquarium+Test+Kits I also found the kits on Fish.com for $69.99 and $48.29 respectively... also on sale right now. If the link breaks, just go to http://www.fish.com and click on the Aquarium Test Kits link and the Kordon kits are on page two. http://www.fish.com/search.asp?resultType= <http://www.fish.com/search.asp?resultType=&query=&hits=24&offset=24&pat h=cF ISHproducts%23%23%2D1%23%23%2D1%7E%7Eq20%7E%7EncFISHp103%23%232%23%233&s ortD irection=> &query=&hits=24&offset=24&path=cFISHproducts%23%23%2D1%23%23%2D1%7E%7Eq2 0%7E %7EncFISHp103%23%232%23%233&sortDirection= These appear to only give 10 of each test so the individual tests can be quite pricey. For the initial set up of a tank where the hobbyist might be testing the water quite frequently during the cycling process, it would probably be better to get the API FW Master Test Kit and then use the Kordon AquaTru test kit for regular monitoring of their tanks once they have a fully established ecosystem. One of the things that I saw with the Kordon test tubes is that they have two tubes as part of the test tube so that one side is filled with plain aquarium water and the other side is where the reagent drops are added. Then you slide in the color card behind both tubes and when you compare the colors, you are comparing them through the clear of partially colored aquarium water on one side so the color card is also changed slightly for a better color comparison.... I hope I explained this OK. LOL You can see the test tubes, etc., 1/2 way down on this page... http://www.novalek.com/kordon/aquatru/index.htm# Maybe.. just maybe... after doing all this research, I'll remember the right product name in the future. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:12 PM To: Aquaria 2 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits > They are tough to find. Part of the reason is the cost, and with most > Americans shopping on price rather than quality, most places do not > care to carry them, because they will not sell. This is also the > reason why the Germans and Japanese get fish we cannot get. They are > willing to pay the price. > > \\Steve// Where are you getting your kits? I have had no lock finding them. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29386	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

I agree the API master kits are > $15 here in the NYC area about $35 I think. And I only have trouble distinguishing the colors when my nitrates are too high, LOL. It’s one of the reasons I shoot for < 20ppm the colors are very different in that range. At the zero to 0.25 end IMO the colors are easy to differentiate. The slightest shade off the color card and you need to take action to remove ammonia (usually by adding beneficial bacteria). It’s no effort at all to keep at zero once you are properly cycled, unless there is ammonia in your tap water. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits If you can find the API master kit for $15, then Lenny's right, it a good deal relative to the individual kits. However I've found them at closer to $30. I do have trouble distinguishing the subtle color differences on the API color cards, and I'm not at all color blind. The good news is that the subtlety matters more to the fanatics on these lists than it does to the fish. In time you'll learn by experience what color for the ammonia test is really 0, what color is really .25, and what color is really .5, partly by experience correlating the shades with fish health and happiness. Also low levels of ammonia are most toxic at high ph levels. If you can maintain a ph below 7.5 you can have an ammonia level of .5. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:28 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits One of the most affordable and reasonably accurate test kits that many people use is the API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) Freshwater Master Test Kit.. usually around $15.00. I use this one and I also have another low cost master test kit from Tetra-Laborette. They both utilize test tubes and liquid reagents. The API kit changes to a color that is then matched on a color card to give you the reading where the Tetra-Laborette kit starts off at one color and then as you add drops of the reagent, it will abruptly change and the reading is based on the number of drops that you added so it's a little easier to tell the results. I've read a few online complaints where some folks have a tough time matching the color cards on some of the API tests. I find that using a room with fluorescent lighting or bright white lighting works best but Color-Blindness is also a concern for up to 20% of adults. You can check your eyes for free here... http://www.toledo- <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html> bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html I also have this page in my favorites folder but the site seems to be down right now... http://colorvisiont <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> esting.com/ It was a more comprehensive color-blind test. I know that \\Steve// often talks highly of the Hagen Master Test Kit... at least I'm pretty sure that is the brand... but from my online shopping attempts, it's a higher priced test kit. I thought he said it used pre-measured packets of dry reagent chemicals but the kits below both had liquid reagent drops so maybe I'm thinking of the wrong brand name. I'm sure he'll reply also. Someone in the group recently posted about one brand of Multi-Test strips that was supposed to be as accurate as their API test kits but I do not recall the brand name. I've tried the Mardel brand but found them to be very inconsistent. The dip-stick tests, while quick, are not usually as accurate and they are far more expensive when you look at the total number of tests, usually 25 or 50 dip sticks in a bottle, so less than a year if weekly tests are done but when first setting up a tank, you will be doing more than that and using several tests at a time if you aren't sure of the results. Compared to one of the Master Test Kits that will last a long time... usually a couple of years, even with frequent testing on a newly set up tank. My biggest complaint with the two Master Test Kits that I've used and use are that they go out of date before I finish all of the available chemicals. Here's a few links to the Master Test Kit pages from several online sources. http://www.marinede <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~test_kits__index.html> pot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~test_kits__index.html (Does have the Hagen as well as the other test kits mentioned in this reply but the Hagen Master Kit is over $100.00... yikes!!!) http://www.bigalson <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits> line.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits (Does have the NutraFin - from Hagen - Kit for $93.00 and the other two mentioned above as well.) http://www.walmart. <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105> com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105 (Wally-World has the API and Tetra-Laborette) http://www.thatpetp <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23826/category.web> lace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23826/category.web (Has the two lower priced kits I mentioned) http://www.drsfoste <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4345+17338> rsmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4345+17338 (same) http://www.petsmart <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits> .com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits <http://www.petsmart <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits&f=Taxonom > .com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits&f=Taxonom y%2FPET%2F2769275&fbc=1&categoryId=2769275&view=all> &f=Taxonomy%2FPET%2F2769275&fbc=1&categoryId=2769275&view=all (Has the API kit) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:02 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits What are the most accurate, yet least costly test kits for aquarium use? What do you use to test your water? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/25/2008 11:28:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29387	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

You can get the API FW Master Test Kit online for the $15.00 range at most of the links I had listed... WalMart.com, PetsMart.com, DrsFosterSmith.com, etc. Also, PetsMart retail stores will match their online prices if you bring in the printed page so ALWAYS check the prices online first and print out the pages of the items you are interested in when going to a PetsMart store. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 5:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits I agree the API master kits are > $15 here in the NYC area.about $35 I think. And I only have trouble distinguishing the colors when my nitrates are too high, LOL. It's one of the reasons I shoot for < 20ppm.the colors are very different in that range. At the zero to 0.25 end IMO the colors are easy to differentiate. The slightest shade off the color card and you need to take action to remove ammonia (usually by adding beneficial bacteria). It's no effort at all to keep at zero once you are properly cycled, unless there is ammonia in your tap water. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits If you can find the API master kit for $15, then Lenny's right, it a good deal relative to the individual kits. However I've found them at closer to $30. I do have trouble distinguishing the subtle color differences on the API color cards, and I'm not at all color blind. The good news is that the subtlety matters more to the fanatics on these lists than it does to the fish. In time you'll learn by experience what color for the ammonia test is really 0, what color is really .25, and what color is really .5, partly by experience correlating the shades with fish health and happiness. Also low levels of ammonia are most toxic at high ph levels. If you can maintain a ph below 7.5 you can have an ammonia level of .5. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:28 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits One of the most affordable and reasonably accurate test kits that many people use is the API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) Freshwater Master Test Kit.. usually around $15.00. I use this one and I also have another low cost master test kit from Tetra-Laborette. They both utilize test tubes and liquid reagents. The API kit changes to a color that is then matched on a color card to give you the reading where the Tetra-Laborette kit starts off at one color and then as you add drops of the reagent, it will abruptly change and the reading is based on the number of drops that you added so it's a little easier to tell the results. I've read a few online complaints where some folks have a tough time matching the color cards on some of the API tests. I find that using a room with fluorescent lighting or bright white lighting works best but Color-Blindness is also a concern for up to 20% of adults. You can check your eyes for free here... http://www.toledo- <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html> > > bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html I also have this page in my favorites folder but the site seems to be down right now... http://colorvisiont <http://colorvisiontesting.com/ <http://colorvisiontesting.com/ <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> > > esting.com/ It was a more comprehensive color-blind test. I know that \\Steve// often talks highly of the Hagen Master Test Kit... at least I'm pretty sure that is the brand... but from my online shopping attempts, it's a higher priced test kit. I thought he said it used pre-measured packets of dry reagent chemicals but the kits below both had liquid reagent drops so maybe I'm thinking of the wrong brand name. I'm sure he'll reply also. Someone in the group recently posted about one brand of Multi-Test strips that was supposed to be as accurate as their API test kits but I do not recall the brand name. I've tried the Mardel brand but found them to be very inconsistent. The dip-stick tests, while quick, are not usually as accurate and they are far more expensive when you look at the total number of tests, usually 25 or 50 dip sticks in a bottle, so less than a year if weekly tests are done but when first setting up a tank, you will be doing more than that and using several tests at a time if you aren't sure of the results. Compared to one of the Master Test Kits that will last a long time... usually a couple of years, even with frequent testing on a newly set up tank. My biggest complaint with the two Master Test Kits that I've used and use are that they go out of date before I finish all of the available chemicals. Here's a few links to the Master Test Kit pages from several online sources. http://www.marinede <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~test_kits__index.html <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~test_kits__index.html <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~test_kits__index.html> > > pot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~test_kits__index.html (Does have the Hagen as well as the other test kits mentioned in this reply but the Hagen Master Kit is over $100.00... yikes!!!) http://www.bigalson <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits> > > line.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits (Does have the NutraFin - from Hagen - Kit for $93.00 and the other two mentioned above as well.) http://www.walmart. <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105 <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105 <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105> > > com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105 (Wally-World has the API and Tetra-Laborette) http://www.thatpetp <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23826/category.web <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23826/category.web <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23826/category.web> > > lace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23826/category.web (Has the two lower priced kits I mentioned) http://www.drsfoste <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4345+17338 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4345+17338 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4345+17338> > > rsmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4345+17338 (same) http://www.petsmart <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits> > > .com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits <http://www.petsmart <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits&f=Taxonom <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits&f=Taxonom > &f=Taxonom > > .com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits&f=Taxonom y%2FPET%2F2769275&fbc=1&categoryId=2769275&view=all> &f=Taxonomy%2FPET%2F2769275&fbc=1&categoryId=2769275&view=all (Has the API kit) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:02 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits What are the most accurate, yet least costly test kits for aquarium use? What do you use to test your water? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 9:16:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29388	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish

In a message dated 8/25/2008 8:18:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time, texas_tears2000@... writes: does any body here have gold fish? how galloons do u think per fish I have 6 outside in a 300 gal. pond Enid Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says.... SHIT, She's awake! **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29389	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Ich or Cloudy/Pop Eye cure first?

Hello folks, I have a neon tetra with ich, pop-eye and a little cloudy eyes. The other 8 neons are fine with 3 of them with very minor cloudy eyes. I isolated the sick neon in a hospital tank and I was planning to treat the fish wish Melafix for pop/cloudy eyes and an ich medication for the ich. Good thing is that the fish has good appetite and does not show any sign of distress, not evern rubbing on rocks or plants. Ich is not major and I saw only 3 dots so far. My question is what I should cure first, ich or eyes? Thank you

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29390	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich or Cloudy/Pop Eye cure first?

I would use the salt/heat treatment on the Ich and that might just do the job on the pop-eye also. Pop-eye is actually a symptom of an internal bacterial infection. Since the fish is eating, if you could get hold of some anti-bacterial food, that would be good. One that seems to be readily available is Jungle's Brand. Here are some articles on using salt/heat for treating Ich. http://aquafacts.net/components/com_mambowiki/index.php/Ich or http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of giuseppesalvato Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ich or Cloudy/Pop Eye cure first? Hello folks, I have a neon tetra with ich, pop-eye and a little cloudy eyes. The other 8 neons are fine with 3 of them with very minor cloudy eyes. I isolated the sick neon in a hospital tank and I was planning to treat the fish wish Melafix for pop/cloudy eyes and an ich medication for the ich. Good thing is that the fish has good appetite and does not show any sign of distress, not evern rubbing on rocks or plants. Ich is not major and I saw only 3 dots so far. My question is what I should cure first, ich or eyes? Thank you _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 9:47:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29391	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish

Hi Enid, I have feeders in the pond. The last time I counted there were about 174 of them in there. The pond is not an acre large but fits in our back yard. Still with all of these fish and I have tried to find additional homes for some of them, I still have a large stock and with my filters going there does not seem to be a problem. I will have to test the water again when I get home but the filters must be doing their job as well as the plants in the pond. I plan to cover the pond this year with a plexiglass structure once I build it- I think time is growing short. Sam in Chicagoland, Gwydryn@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 8/25/2008 8:18:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > texas_tears2000@... <mailto:texas_tears2000%40yahoo.com> writes: > > does any body here have gold fish? > how galloons do u think per fish > > I have 6 outside in a 300 gal. pond > Enid > > Live your life in such a way > that when your feet hit the > floor in the morning, > Satan shudders and says.... > > SHIT, She's awake! > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your > travel > deal here. > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047 > <http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047>) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29392	From: tillmanalbany	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish

In spite of my efforts, he died. However, I have learned much and I can see that I have much to learn. Thanks, Lenny. ~Peggy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You need an ammonia test kit. > > I strongly suspect that elevated ammonia levels is your problem since the > tank has only been set up for two weeks. Cycling with fish takes 6- 8+ weeks > to get the initial cycle started and then each time you add more fish, it's > another week or two of ammonia/nitrite issues as the nitrifying bacteria > colony grows to compensate for the added bioload of new fish. > > Since I doubt that your main tank is even cycled, there's not much you can > do to get the Q-tank cycled. Normally, this could be accomplished by taking > some of the filter media or gravel from a cycled tank and adding it to the > filter of the Q-tank and it would be cycled for a single fish without too > much of a problem although testing for ammonia/nitrite is still recommended. > > For now, move the ill fish to the separate tank and fill it 1/2 way with > water from the 30G so the fish doesn't have to deal with changing water > parameters again. Then you can add a gallon or two of tap water to the > Q-tank every few hours until it is mostly full so the fish can acclimate to > any changes. Since I doubt your main tank is cycled yet, just move the > smaller of the filter systems to the Q-tank and leave the larger filter > system in the bigger tank. Is the powerhead connected to a lift tube to a > UGF (under gravel filter) system in the main tank? > > You should also go out and get some Prime water conditioner as it will make > the ammonia non-toxic or less toxic when cycling with fish but you will > still have to monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels and do PWC's as needed > to keep them at non-lethal levels below 1.0ppm. Ultimately, once the tank > is fully cycled, your ammonia/nitrite levels should ALWAYS be 0.0ppm. Use > it in both the main tank and the Q-tank for now and add a pinch of salt to > both tanks which will help protect against nitrite poisoning. You can't add > too much salt to the main tank as I do not think that Kuhli's tolerate salt > very well but a pinch won't bother them and that is all that is needed to > protect against nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder). > > For the Q-tank, you can increase the salt level slowly over the course of 24 > hours to treatment level of 3 teaspoons per gallon. Start off with 1 > teaspoon per gallon, then add another 1 teaspoon per gallon at the 12 hour > mark and the last 1 teaspoon per gallon at the 24 hour mark. Dissolve the > salt in some removed tank water first and then slowly pour it back into the > tank where the water is flowing back from the filter. Take care not to pour > the solution too closely to the ill fish since you don't want it getting hit > with such a high salt concentration all at once. > > Normally, a nitrate level of 10ppm might mean that a tank is cycled but it's > quite possible that your tap/source water has that level of nitrates in it > so you should do a tap/source water baseline test so you will know what your > starting point is and then you will know more about what is happening to the > water once it is affected by the ecology of your tank. The EPA has the safe > levels of nitrates in America's household water supply as no more than 10ppm > and most communities have much lower than that level but some communities go > much higher. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of tillmanalbany > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New w/sick fish > > Hi Lenny > > I have one other empty tank, a 20G, that I could set up this evening as a > Q-tank. For tonight I would have to take the Whisper filter from the 30G > they are in now, and that would only leave the Power Head attached to the > lift tube in that tank. Will that be okay for tonight? How do I get the 20G > cycled tonight for the one sick fish? > > The readings are: Nitrate 10, Nitrite 0, Hardness 75, Chlorie 0, Alkalinity > 40, PH 7.2 > > I set up the tank 2 weeks ago and used fish to cycle it. I don't know how > the water compared to the fish store, but I took about 30 minutes of adding > my tank's water to the bagged fish before adding the four fish to the tank. > > I await your continued advice for the sick mollie. Thanks. > > Peggy > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > You should remove the ill fish to a quarantine tank. A 5G or 10G > tank works > > great as a Q-tank and you can often find them for free on places > like > > FreeCycle.org. Then all you would need is a low cost bubble filter > for > > under $10.00.. or possibly for free too. Quite often, other fish > will nip > > and harass a sick fish until it is so stressed that it dies. It's > just > > basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. It's why the sick fish > is > > trying to hide in a corner. If your tank was heavily planted, the > sick fish > > would be hiding as best as possible behind plants to avoid drawing > attention > > to itself. > > > > What are your other water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, > pH and any > > other tests you may have like GH and KH? Your alkalinity test is > probably > > the GH (general hardness) test which means your water is very soft > so you > > may need to buffer it up but we need your other test results to > know for > > certain. > > > > Also, we would need your tap water baseline test results (see my > blog). > > > > How long has the tank been set up? Did you fishless cycle the tank > or were > > you cycling with fish? Was your tank water parameters identical or > nearly > > identical to the water at the pet store? Often, not acclimating > new fish > > slowly enough will cause them pH or osmotic stress issues resulting > in > > health issues. > > > > It could just be an isolated incident of a new fish having health > problems > > related to being shipped around multiple times as stress will cause > fish to > > have immune system issues which makes them more susceptible to minor > > pathogens they would normally be resistant to. I'm also worried > that if you > > did not fishless cycle the tank, you may have added too many new > fish too > > quickly and your tank could be having an ammonia/nitrite spike. > Once again, > > the test results would clarify this for us. > > > > Here is a profile and care sheet for Kuhli Loaches > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html> and for > Livebearers > > (Mollies, etc.) http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of tillmanalbany > > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New w/sick fish > > > > I am hoping someone can give me advice. I am new to this, I have a > newly > > cycled 30 gallon fresh water tank. I started with one tetra, (doing > fine), > > then a week later added 3 Balloon Belly Mollys and a Kuhli Loach. > That was > > about four days ago. Today I noticed one of the mollys hanging out > on the > > bottom. He showed some interest in the morning feeding, but not > much. Now he > > is not leaving the bottom corner of the tank and the Kuhli Loach is > > occasionally nipping at him. > > > > I did a test on the water and it all looks fine except the > alkalinity is a > > little low at 40. > > > > Suggestions? > > > > Thanks, Peggy > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 > Tested on: 8/26/2008 12:17:02 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish

Sorry he didn't make it. He was likely the weakest of your fish so he was the first to go but you are not over the hump yet. You still need an ammonia test kit so you can keep the ammonia down at safe levels... below 1.0ppm... using PWC's until your tank is fully cycled. DO NOT add any more fish until you are seeing 0.0ppm for ammonia... several more weeks of daily testing and PWC's as needed, then the nitrite will rise and you will continue to do PWC's as needed to keep them below 1.0ppm. Then once they go down to 0.0ppm, you should see your nitrates continue to rise slowly and you control them with the weekly 25% PWC's. Then you can add some more fish and you will have to watch the ammonia/nitrite levels again on a daily basis to make sure they do not go above 1.0ppm and do PWC's as needed to keep them below 1.0ppm. Now you see why we recommend "Fishless Cycling" so much.. it's much easier on the new hobbyist and much safer and healthier for the fish. Go to my blog if you haven't done so already and go to the A to Z of Fish Keeping page and take the free online tutorials I have linked there. Also read the article on "Cycling With Fish" and also read my long article on Filter Maintenance and Cleaning so you do not make a newbie mistake by throwing away your filter every few weeks like the box says to do. That's the worst thing to do with a new aquarium and it's not always a good thing with an established aquarium either. Fish keeping is kind of like learning to ride a bike.. it has it's falls and stumbles in the beginning but then things start to come together and this "nitrogen cycle" and water parameters stuff hits you and you say... OHHHH... now I understand how it all works together. Basically, a fish tank is it's own little closed system of the entire earth's ecosystem except it needs a little help from us doing PWC's and vacuuming the gravel to replace the natural rainfall, tides, etc. that takes place for rivers and lakes. To your fish, you are like God... and I don't just mean at feeding time. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tillmanalbany Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New w/sick fish In spite of my efforts, he died. However, I have learned much and I can see that I have much to learn. Thanks, Lenny. ~Peggy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You need an ammonia test kit. > > I strongly suspect that elevated ammonia levels is your problem since the > tank has only been set up for two weeks. Cycling with fish takes 6- 8+ weeks > to get the initial cycle started and then each time you add more fish, it's > another week or two of ammonia/nitrite issues as the nitrifying bacteria > colony grows to compensate for the added bioload of new fish. > > Since I doubt that your main tank is even cycled, there's not much you can > do to get the Q-tank cycled. Normally, this could be accomplished by taking > some of the filter media or gravel from a cycled tank and adding it to the > filter of the Q-tank and it would be cycled for a single fish without too > much of a problem although testing for ammonia/nitrite is still recommended. > > For now, move the ill fish to the separate tank and fill it 1/2 way with > water from the 30G so the fish doesn't have to deal with changing water > parameters again. Then you can add a gallon or two of tap water to the > Q-tank every few hours until it is mostly full so the fish can acclimate to > any changes. Since I doubt your main tank is cycled yet, just move the > smaller of the filter systems to the Q-tank and leave the larger filter > system in the bigger tank. Is the powerhead connected to a lift tube to a > UGF (under gravel filter) system in the main tank? > > You should also go out and get some Prime water conditioner as it will make > the ammonia non-toxic or less toxic when cycling with fish but you will > still have to monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels and do PWC's as needed > to keep them at non-lethal levels below 1.0ppm. Ultimately, once the tank > is fully cycled, your ammonia/nitrite levels should ALWAYS be 0.0ppm. Use > it in both the main tank and the Q-tank for now and add a pinch of salt to > both tanks which will help protect against nitrite poisoning. You can't add > too much salt to the main tank as I do not think that Kuhli's tolerate salt > very well but a pinch won't bother them and that is all that is needed to > protect against nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder). > > For the Q-tank, you can increase the salt level slowly over the course of 24 > hours to treatment level of 3 teaspoons per gallon. Start off with 1 > teaspoon per gallon, then add another 1 teaspoon per gallon at the 12 hour > mark and the last 1 teaspoon per gallon at the 24 hour mark. Dissolve the > salt in some removed tank water first and then slowly pour it back into the > tank where the water is flowing back from the filter. Take care not to pour > the solution too closely to the ill fish since you don't want it getting hit > with such a high salt concentration all at once. > > Normally, a nitrate level of 10ppm might mean that a tank is cycled but it's > quite possible that your tap/source water has that level of nitrates in it > so you should do a tap/source water baseline test so you will know what your > starting point is and then you will know more about what is happening to the > water once it is affected by the ecology of your tank. The EPA has the safe > levels of nitrates in America's household water supply as no more than 10ppm > and most communities have much lower than that level but some communities go > much higher. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of tillmanalbany > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New w/sick fish > > Hi Lenny > > I have one other empty tank, a 20G, that I could set up this evening as a > Q-tank. For tonight I would have to take the Whisper filter from the 30G > they are in now, and that would only leave the Power Head attached to the > lift tube in that tank. Will that be okay for tonight? How do I get the 20G > cycled tonight for the one sick fish? > > The readings are: Nitrate 10, Nitrite 0, Hardness 75, Chlorie 0, Alkalinity > 40, PH 7.2 > > I set up the tank 2 weeks ago and used fish to cycle it. I don't know how > the water compared to the fish store, but I took about 30 minutes of adding > my tank's water to the bagged fish before adding the four fish to the tank. > > I await your continued advice for the sick mollie. Thanks. > > Peggy > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > You should remove the ill fish to a quarantine tank. A 5G or 10G > tank works > > great as a Q-tank and you can often find them for free on places > like > > FreeCycle.org. Then all you would need is a low cost bubble filter > for > > under $10.00.. or possibly for free too. Quite often, other fish > will nip > > and harass a sick fish until it is so stressed that it dies. It's > just > > basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. It's why the sick fish > is > > trying to hide in a corner. If your tank was heavily planted, the > sick fish > > would be hiding as best as possible behind plants to avoid drawing > attention > > to itself. > > > > What are your other water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, > pH and any > > other tests you may have like GH and KH? Your alkalinity test is > probably > > the GH (general hardness) test which means your water is very soft > so you > > may need to buffer it up but we need your other test results to > know for > > certain. > > > > Also, we would need your tap water baseline test results (see my > blog). > > > > How long has the tank been set up? Did you fishless cycle the tank > or were > > you cycling with fish? Was your tank water parameters identical or > nearly > > identical to the water at the pet store? Often, not acclimating > new fish > > slowly enough will cause them pH or osmotic stress issues resulting > in > > health issues. > > > > It could just be an isolated incident of a new fish having health > problems > > related to being shipped around multiple times as stress will cause > fish to > > have immune system issues which makes them more susceptible to minor > > pathogens they would normally be resistant to. I'm also worried > that if you > > did not fishless cycle the tank, you may have added too many new > fish too > > quickly and your tank could be having an ammonia/nitrite spike. > Once again, > > the test results would clarify this for us. > > > > Here is a profile and care sheet for Kuhli Loaches > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html> > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html> > and for > Livebearers > > (Mollies, etc.) http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of tillmanalbany > > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New w/sick fish > > > > I am hoping someone can give me advice. I am new to this, I have a > newly > > cycled 30 gallon fresh water tank. I started with one tetra, (doing > fine), > > then a week later added 3 Balloon Belly Mollys and a Kuhli Loach. > That was > > about four days ago. Today I noticed one of the mollys hanging out > on the > > bottom. He showed some interest in the morning feeding, but not > much. Now he > > is not leaving the bottom corner of the tank and the Kuhli Loach is > > occasionally nipping at him. > > > > I did a test on the water and it all looks fine except the > alkalinity is a > > little low at 40. > > > > Suggestions? > > > > Thanks, Peggy > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 11:44:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29394	From: Texas_Tears2000	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: link my_fish

was this okay 2 add [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29395	From: Chris	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Distilled Water

Is it necessary to dechlorinate distilled water bought at a store? Would I have to worry about other contaminates?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29396	From: Chris	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Fishless Cycling

When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under control. I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29397	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Hi Chris, By definition, Distilled water will not have any chlorine or any other additives in it if it is truly distilled. Many studies have found that the special waters coming from springs, distillers or other pure sources really came from the tap. the only way I would trust an external water is if it came from a laboratory supply. Grocery stores are as good as all that poison food they sold that killed all those pets. What does that tell you? I put all added water through a Brita filter myself. this is not what happens when I use the Python cleaner- then it is tap. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Chris wrote: > > Is it necessary to dechlorinate distilled water bought at a store? > Would I have to worry about other contaminates? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29398	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

Ammonia is easier, but rotting flakes will eventually work. Buy a different test kit so you can monitor ammonia. We like API Master Freshwater Test Kit. Until you see a Nitrate reading you know you still have a way to go to be cycled. Snails cannot reproduce more than their food supply, but once you have fish, there will always be food for the snails. And they get into everything, even the pores of your sponges. Finally, there is no way to eradicate them without killing your fish and/or plants as well. They clog my Python, now I have to stop my water changes 3 or 4 times to remove snails so the water will flow. Good luck! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under control. I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29399	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

The best, and also easiest way, to cycle a tank without fish is to use ammonia. Go down to the grocery store and find yourself some plain ammonia, no detergent or scents added, just plain ammonia. Get yourself over to the LFS and get yourself a master kit which usually includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits. For suggestions, see another thread going on here on the various test kits (Water Test Kits). When you go home, add enough of the ammonia to your tank to bring the reading up to 5 ppm. Measure the ammonia level each day, and add enough to bring it back to 5 ppm. Whet h ammonia gets to 0 ppm each day, start measuring your nitrites, Keep adding the ammonia each day until both ammonia and nitrites measure 0 ppm at the end of each 24 hour period. When this happens, add fish, and stop adding ammonia. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under control. I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29400	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish

For one sick fish I'd use a little hospital with no decorations and you dn't have to cycle it, just make major water changes often. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "tillmanalbany" <tillmanalbany@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:39 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New w/sick fish Hi Lenny I have one other empty tank, a 20G, that I could set up this evening as a Q-tank. For tonight I would have to take the Whisper filter from the 30G they are in now, and that would only leave the Power Head attached to the lift tube in that tank. Will that be okay for tonight? How do I get the 20G cycled tonight for the one sick fish? The readings are: Nitrate 10, Nitrite 0, Hardness 75, Chlorie 0, Alkalinity 40, PH 7.2 I set up the tank 2 weeks ago and used fish to cycle it. I don't know how the water compared to the fish store, but I took about 30 minutes of adding my tank's water to the bagged fish before adding the four fish to the tank. I await your continued advice for the sick mollie. Thanks. Peggy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You should remove the ill fish to a quarantine tank. A 5G or 10G tank works > great as a Q-tank and you can often find them for free on places like > FreeCycle.org. Then all you would need is a low cost bubble filter for > under $10.00.. or possibly for free too. Quite often, other fish will nip > and harass a sick fish until it is so stressed that it dies. It's just > basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. It's why the sick fish is > trying to hide in a corner. If your tank was heavily planted, the sick fish > would be hiding as best as possible behind plants to avoid drawing attention > to itself. > > What are your other water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any > other tests you may have like GH and KH? Your alkalinity test is probably > the GH (general hardness) test which means your water is very soft so you > may need to buffer it up but we need your other test results to know for > certain. > > Also, we would need your tap water baseline test results (see my blog). > > How long has the tank been set up? Did you fishless cycle the tank or were > you cycling with fish? Was your tank water parameters identical or nearly > identical to the water at the pet store? Often, not acclimating new fish > slowly enough will cause them pH or osmotic stress issues resulting in > health issues. > > It could just be an isolated incident of a new fish having health problems > related to being shipped around multiple times as stress will cause fish to > have immune system issues which makes them more susceptible to minor > pathogens they would normally be resistant to. I'm also worried that if you > did not fishless cycle the tank, you may have added too many new fish too > quickly and your tank could be having an ammonia/nitrite spike. Once again, > the test results would clarify this for us. > > Here is a profile and care sheet for Kuhli Loaches > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html and for Livebearers > (Mollies, etc.) http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of tillmanalbany > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New w/sick fish > > I am hoping someone can give me advice. I am new to this, I have a newly > cycled 30 gallon fresh water tank. I started with one tetra, (doing fine), > then a week later added 3 Balloon Belly Mollys and a Kuhli Loach. That was > about four days ago. Today I noticed one of the mollys hanging out on the > bottom. He showed some interest in the morning feeding, but not much. Now he > is not leaving the bottom corner of the tank and the Kuhli Loach is > occasionally nipping at him. > > I did a test on the water and it all looks fine except the alkalinity is a > little low at 40. > > Suggestions? > > Thanks, Peggy > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 > Tested on: 8/25/2008 10:41:08 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29401	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits

Hey, thanks, Lenny, I'll keep that in mind! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:16 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits You can get the API FW Master Test Kit online for the $15.00 range at most of the links I had listed... WalMart.com, PetsMart.com, DrsFosterSmith.com, etc. Also, PetsMart retail stores will match their online prices if you bring in the printed page so ALWAYS check the prices online first and print out the pages of the items you are interested in when going to a PetsMart store. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 5:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits I agree the API master kits are > $15 here in the NYC area.about $35 I think. And I only have trouble distinguishing the colors when my nitrates are too high, LOL. It's one of the reasons I shoot for < 20ppm.the colors are very different in that range. At the zero to 0.25 end IMO the colors are easy to differentiate. The slightest shade off the color card and you need to take action to remove ammonia (usually by adding beneficial bacteria). It's no effort at all to keep at zero once you are properly cycled, unless there is ammonia in your tap water. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits If you can find the API master kit for $15, then Lenny's right, it a good deal relative to the individual kits. However I've found them at closer to $30. I do have trouble distinguishing the subtle color differences on the API color cards, and I'm not at all color blind. The good news is that the subtlety matters more to the fanatics on these lists than it does to the fish. In time you'll learn by experience what color for the ammonia test is really 0, what color is really .25, and what color is really .5, partly by experience correlating the shades with fish health and happiness. Also low levels of ammonia are most toxic at high ph levels. If you can maintain a ph below 7.5 you can have an ammonia level of .5. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:28 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits One of the most affordable and reasonably accurate test kits that many people use is the API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) Freshwater Master Test Kit.. usually around $15.00. I use this one and I also have another low cost master test kit from Tetra-Laborette. They both utilize test tubes and liquid reagents. The API kit changes to a color that is then matched on a color card to give you the reading where the Tetra-Laborette kit starts off at one color and then as you add drops of the reagent, it will abruptly change and the reading is based on the number of drops that you added so it's a little easier to tell the results. I've read a few online complaints where some folks have a tough time matching the color cards on some of the API tests. I find that using a room with fluorescent lighting or bright white lighting works best but Color-Blindness is also a concern for up to 20% of adults. You can check your eyes for free here... http://www.toledo- <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html> > > bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html I also have this page in my favorites folder but the site seems to be down right now... http://colorvisiont <http://colorvisiontesting.com/ <http://colorvisiontesting.com/ <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> > > esting.com/ It was a more comprehensive color-blind test. I know that \\Steve// often talks highly of the Hagen Master Test Kit... at least I'm pretty sure that is the brand... but from my online shopping attempts, it's a higher priced test kit. I thought he said it used pre-measured packets of dry reagent chemicals but the kits below both had liquid reagent drops so maybe I'm thinking of the wrong brand name. I'm sure he'll reply also. Someone in the group recently posted about one brand of Multi-Test strips that was supposed to be as accurate as their API test kits but I do not recall the brand name. I've tried the Mardel brand but found them to be very inconsistent. The dip-stick tests, while quick, are not usually as accurate and they are far more expensive when you look at the total number of tests, usually 25 or 50 dip sticks in a bottle, so less than a year if weekly tests are done but when first setting up a tank, you will be doing more than that and using several tests at a time if you aren't sure of the results. Compared to one of the Master Test Kits that will last a long time... usually a couple of years, even with frequent testing on a newly set up tank. My biggest complaint with the two Master Test Kits that I've used and use are that they go out of date before I finish all of the available chemicals. Here's a few links to the Master Test Kit pages from several online sources. http://www.marinede <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~test_kits__index.html <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~test_kits__index.html <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~test_kits__index.html> > > pot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~test_kits__index.html (Does have the Hagen as well as the other test kits mentioned in this reply but the Hagen Master Kit is over $100.00... yikes!!!) http://www.bigalson <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits> > > line.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits (Does have the NutraFin - from Hagen - Kit for $93.00 and the other two mentioned above as well.) http://www.walmart. <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105 <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105 <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105> > > com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105 (Wally-World has the API and Tetra-Laborette) http://www.thatpetp <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23826/category.web <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23826/category.web <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23826/category.web> > > lace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/23826/category.web (Has the two lower priced kits I mentioned) http://www.drsfoste <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4345+17338 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4345+17338 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4345+17338> > > rsmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4345+17338 (same) http://www.petsmart <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits> > > .com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits <http://www.petsmart <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits&f=Taxonom <http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits&f=Taxonom > &f=Taxonom > > .com/family/index.jsp?fbn=Taxonomy%7CTest+Kits&f=Taxonom y%2FPET%2F2769275&fbc=1&categoryId=2769275&view=all> &f=Taxonomy%2FPET%2F2769275&fbc=1&categoryId=2769275&view=all (Has the API kit) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:02 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits What are the most accurate, yet least costly test kits for aquarium use? What do you use to test your water? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 9:16:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29402	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Distilled water should not have anything else in it at all. It's for use in applications that really need pure water, and not wanting chlorine is one of the reasons to use distilled water. One can't guarantee that with other forms of bottled water like spring water, unless it says on the bottle. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:02 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Distilled Water Is it necessary to dechlorinate distilled water bought at a store? Would I have to worry about other contaminates?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29403	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Well, now, to be sure, I feed my birds aquafina, and the ph tests neutral, quite unlike our tap water with its ph of 9. Now, I don't know, maybe it comes from taps where the ph is neutral. But it also tastes alot better than our tap water. I think I have actually dumped some of it in the aquarium, forgetting that that isn't a good idea, and teh fish lived, which is a good sign. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Distilled Water Hi Chris, By definition, Distilled water will not have any chlorine or any other additives in it if it is truly distilled. Many studies have found that the special waters coming from springs, distillers or other pure sources really came from the tap. the only way I would trust an external water is if it came from a laboratory supply. Grocery stores are as good as all that poison food they sold that killed all those pets. What does that tell you? I put all added water through a Brita filter myself. this is not what happens when I use the Python cleaner- then it is tap. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Chris wrote: > > Is it necessary to dechlorinate distilled water bought at a store? > Would I have to worry about other contaminates? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29404	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

Nitrite cannot be converted to nitrate in the presence of pneumonia. So if you have a positive reading for nitrites but not nitrates you probably have ammonia. Not that that's the only situation in which you'd have ammonia. For some reason I often have as much as .5 ppm of ammonia and 5 ppm of nitrates and no nitrites, and I even tried my newer unopened bottle of nitrite reagent. I don't know why this would be. Maybe the bacteria starters and additives I've used had more nitrite processing bacteria than ammonia processing bacteria, I don't know. There is ammonia in the tap water, but I add enough Prime to the water I''m preparing to put in the tank to get it down. And of course it's common to have high ammonia levels and low levels of nitrites and nitrates because the bacteria that act on ammonia and nitrites haven't had a chance to grow. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under control. I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29405	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

Without an ammonia test, it's really difficult to know if your tank is cycling. Having a nitrite reading means it could have already gone through the ammonia spike but two weeks is kind of a short time for it to have gone through that phase already. I think you would have been better off using the plain ammonia method... for 99 cents and knowing precisely that you are raising the ammonia level to 4-5ppm from the start rather than hit or miss with the flakes and then them taking a couple of weeks to start breaking down and forming ammonia. The Cycle product does not seem to work as advertised... at least it didn't when I tried it several years ago. The only bacteria-in-a-bottle that I use to recommend was Bio-Spira and now the only one is Dr. Tim's One And Only... the successor to Bio-Spira since Dr. Tim left Marineland. You would need more than a sample of water from your local pet store. The nitrifying bacteria does not really live in the water column although I'm sure there are occasional floaters in the water. They will mostly live in the filter media, gravel and on surface areas of the tank with the majority in the filter media since that's where most of the food is or flows by. At this point, you should get an ammonia test kit or a master test kit... API's is one of the most affordable... so you can find out where you really are in your cycling process. For others reading this... the 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia from Ace Hardware would have been much cheaper and easier and the fishless cycling process would have been well on the way by now. If you want to be even more frugal... then a chair and a daily teaspoon of tinkle into the tank would also work. Yes... it really does work! http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under control. I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 8:22:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Why are you thinking of adding distilled water to your tank? It's not a good thing to add in most cases unless you are using it to dilute your tap water to get it to a specific pH for a specific fish or reason. The reason we do regular PWC's (partial water changes) is to re-supply trace elements and minerals to the tank so the fish and plants can utilize these trace elements. Distilled water does not have any of these. But to answer your question... no it does not have to be dechlorinated since it should not have anything but H2O in it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Distilled Water Is it necessary to dechlorinate distilled water bought at a store? Would I have to worry about other contaminates? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 8:26:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29407	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish

I have a full-grown veiltail goldie in a 20-gallon long with a plec. Up to about a month ago, there was a rosy red minnow in there also, but he died (old age probably). The goldie is doing fine -- she's beautiful, and I'm not going to add any more goldies because I know 20 gallons wouldn't be enough for two. When the plec gets to big, I'll put him in my 40-gallon cichlid tank. Ideally, yes, I'd prefer to have my goldie in a larger tank, and that will happen one day, but for now, I watch her closely, and make frequent water changes and tests. Once a week, I add Aquari-sol, and add Stress Coat after water changes.(Note: my hubby started our fish-keeping hobby, but I'm the one who ended up maintaining them and researching diseases, maintenance needs, etc.). In terms of keeping your fish friends happy and healthy, your best bet is to closely observe your fish for illness and diseases; and to visit this forum and other internet sites that provide information and advice. (Do not count on your local fish/pet store for advice!) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Linda Badeen <linda.rose@...> wrote: > > I have13 outside in my 1200gallon pond. They seem quite happy there <g> > > texas_tears2000 wrote: > > does any body here have gold fish? > > how galloons do u think per fish ? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29408	From: Angela Bauer	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Sick Fish

Hello all...this is my first time here, and hopefully you can help me. I had an outbreak of Ick 4 days ago. I lost my black and white spotted catfish, but I figured I would since I couldn't get to the pet store until later that night and he was already really far gone. My red tail shark and pleco have been very listless and hanging out by air stones (I have 4 in there right now while I'm treating the Ick from the catfish) and not eating. I treated for 3 days, and did a 40% water change and raised the temp to about 83. It's an old heater, and I'm nervous about going higher. I also covered my tank to make it dark. Now the red tail is swimming around a bit and poking at the gravel, but my pleco looks bad. Parts of him are pale, and his eyes are cloudy. Fins on him and my tetras look a little chewed up. However, Mr Pleco was sticking to the side of the tank a few hours after I changed the water, upped the temp, and covered it. I'm using Ick Guard II. I treated today after the water change. I'm very confused...if it wasn't for the catfish looking like he was dropped in salt, I wouldn't be so sure it was ick...but what now??? I want to help my pleco, but I can't stop treating for ick since it's only been 4 days. PLEASE HELP!! Oh, and I know where the ick came from...the red swordtails I recently purchased. Two of those 3 died. Third is fine. Her fins are fine too. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29409	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

\\Steve//, Do you not do a large 90% water change at the end of fishless cycling before adding fish? At the end of a fishless cycle, the KH is often getting very low due to the nitrifying bacteria utilizing it during the 2-6 week process. I've always done a large 90%+ water change with dechlored water just to get the GH and KH levels back up to where it would normally be. In fact... if someone is fishless cycling and they have soft water or low KH water, the fishless cycle will sometimes stall due to too low of KH levels for the bacteria to continue growing. All that is needed at that point is a PWC to get things going again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling The best, and also easiest way, to cycle a tank without fish is to use ammonia. Go down to the grocery store and find yourself some plain ammonia, no detergent or scents added, just plain ammonia. Get yourself over to the LFS and get yourself a master kit which usually includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits. For suggestions, see another thread going on here on the various test kits (Water Test Kits). When you go home, add enough of the ammonia to your tank to bring the reading up to 5 ppm. Measure the ammonia level each day, and add enough to bring it back to 5 ppm. Whet h ammonia gets to 0 ppm each day, start measuring your nitrites, Keep adding the ammonia each day until both ammonia and nitrites measure 0 ppm at the end of each 24 hour period. When this happens, add fish, and stop adding ammonia. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under control. I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 8:49:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29410	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

Dora, If you have pneumonia, you probably shouldn't be fooling with your tank but I'm sure your pneumonia would not affect the nitrifying bacteria but the Doctor would direct you to stay in bed until well. ;-) The most likely reason for 0.5ppm of ammonia in a newly set up tank is due to chloramines in your tap water. When you dechlor the tap water, it breaks down the chloramine into chlorine and ammonia. The chlorine is then further broken down to where it's not longer an issue but the ammonia is then taken care of by the nitrification process. I have a blog article with a series of emails between me and one of the chemists at my local water utility explaining the various chloramine levels, free chlorine, ammonia, etc. Same with nitrates in a new tank... water utilities are allowed to have up to 10ppm of nitrates in tap water. Most keep nitrates down to 0.0ppm but others have it as high as 40-50ppm in some areas where the water source is from reservoirs or other sources that might be affected by farm run-off and fertilizers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling Nitrite cannot be converted to nitrate in the presence of pneumonia. So if you have a positive reading for nitrites but not nitrates you probably have ammonia. Not that that's the only situation in which you'd have ammonia. For some reason I often have as much as .5 ppm of ammonia and 5 ppm of nitrates and no nitrites, and I even tried my newer unopened bottle of nitrite reagent. I don't know why this would be. Maybe the bacteria starters and additives I've used had more nitrite processing bacteria than ammonia processing bacteria, I don't know. There is ammonia in the tap water, but I add enough Prime to the water I''m preparing to put in the tank to get it down. And of course it's common to have high ammonia levels and low levels of nitrites and nitrates because the bacteria that act on ammonia and nitrites haven't had a chance to grow. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under control. I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 8:58:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29411	From: Chris	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

I understand what you mean. The eggs are hard to see right? Does that mean that just because the snails are dead from starvation, the eggs might still be in the tank? Aren't there treatments to kill snails? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Ammonia is easier, but rotting flakes will eventually work. Buy a different > test kit so you can monitor ammonia. We like API Master Freshwater Test > Kit. Until you see a Nitrate reading you know you still have a way to go to > be cycled. > > > > Snails cannot reproduce more than their food supply, but once you have fish, > there will always be food for the snails. And they get into everything, > even the pores of your sponges. Finally, there is no way to eradicate them > without killing your fish and/or plants as well. They clog my Python, now I > have to stop my water changes 3 or 4 times to remove snails so the water > will flow. > > > > Good luck! > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling > > > > When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle > before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let > the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get > bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the > water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any > algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was > to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce > and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under > control. > > I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see > how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would > eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some > interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in > > I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it > doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to > add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen > any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading > zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their > water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29412	From: Chris	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

I figured distilled was ph nuetral and would be safe to add directly to a tank when the water gets low since I'm looking to not use dechlorinaters. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Why are you thinking of adding distilled water to your tank? It's not a > good thing to add in most cases unless you are using it to dilute your tap > water to get it to a specific pH for a specific fish or reason. The reason > we do regular PWC's (partial water changes) is to re-supply trace elements > and minerals to the tank so the fish and plants can utilize these trace > elements. Distilled water does not have any of these. But to answer your > question... no it does not have to be dechlorinated since it should not have > anything but H2O in it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Distilled Water > > Is it necessary to dechlorinate distilled water bought at a store? > Would I have to worry about other contaminates? > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 > Tested on: 8/26/2008 8:26:03 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29413	From: Chris	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

There is an Artesian Spring water bottling company down the road from me. I believe they distill the water, and has no chemical taste to it. I've been thinking about getting my tank water from them if they don't treat the water just to keep it pure. Since you use tap to replenish minerals, why not aquarium salt? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Why are you thinking of adding distilled water to your tank? It's not a > good thing to add in most cases unless you are using it to dilute your tap > water to get it to a specific pH for a specific fish or reason. The reason > we do regular PWC's (partial water changes) is to re-supply trace elements > and minerals to the tank so the fish and plants can utilize these trace > elements. Distilled water does not have any of these. But to answer your > question... no it does not have to be dechlorinated since it should not have > anything but H2O in it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Distilled Water > > Is it necessary to dechlorinate distilled water bought at a store? > Would I have to worry about other contaminates? > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 > Tested on: 8/26/2008 8:26:03 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29414	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Distilled may or may not be pH neutral. Only testing it would let you know what the pH actually is. As previously explained, distilled water is NOT GOOD for fish since fish need the trace elements and minerals found in normal water. This is why 99% of people use their tap water for their fish and just use a simple dechlor to treat the chlorine/chloramine/heavy metals. There is no reason to use all the stress-this or slime-that type products that just add other chemicals to a tank that does not need them. There are cases where people need specific types of water for certain fish, induce breeding, saltwater fish, etc. but for the overwhelming majority of freshwater fish keepers.... tap water is fine as long as it's treated with a dechlor product. I use either API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator and both of them are very efficient (or concentrated) so very little product is needed compared to many of the other brands, yet they have similar prices for similar sizes. They both simply treat chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals. The 16 oz. bottle of API's is the best bargain but my local PetsMart doesn't carry it in the store. When I do not have a large enough order to get free shipping, I'll settle for the 8oz TopFin bottle which is the next best bargain at PetsMart. Remember to always print out the online price first as the local stores will match the online prices. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water I figured distilled was ph nuetral and would be safe to add directly to a tank when the water gets low since I'm looking to not use dechlorinaters. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Why are you thinking of adding distilled water to your tank? It's not > a good thing to add in most cases unless you are using it to dilute your tap > water to get it to a specific pH for a specific fish or reason. The reason > we do regular PWC's (partial water changes) is to re-supply trace elements > and minerals to the tank so the fish and plants can utilize these > trace elements. Distilled water does not have any of these. But to answer your > question... no it does not have to be dechlorinated since it should not have > anything but H2O in it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Distilled Water > > Is it necessary to dechlorinate distilled water bought at a store? > Would I have to worry about other contaminates? > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 9:14:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29415	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Spring water may or may not be good for fish. You should get a water report from them to see what they do to treat it. If they filter it too much, they might remove too many of the trace elements and minerals which would then make it not a very good choice. Why are you so opposed to using your tap water? Mine comes from the Mississippi River down here in New Orleans after the rest of the country has dumped all their crap into the river and it all flows down here and yet the water is fine for drinking and for my fish.... at least I'm not glowing or anything after many years of drinking it. I really don't understand people paying up to $50.00 a gallon for bottled drinking water ($3.00+ for 8 oz. of some French named junk=$50.00/gallon) while complaining about $4.00 a gallon gas. My tap water costs a couple of dollars per thousand gallons. Yes, I also complain about the TAXES on gas that artificially raise the price so high but I haven't figured out a way to cheat on them gas taxes yet... but I'm still working on it! Sorry... went off on a quasi-political tirade there. :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water There is an Artesian Spring water bottling company down the road from me. I believe they distill the water, and has no chemical taste to it. I've been thinking about getting my tank water from them if they don't treat the water just to keep it pure. Since you use tap to replenish minerals, why not aquarium salt? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Why are you thinking of adding distilled water to your tank? It's not > a good thing to add in most cases unless you are using it to dilute your tap > water to get it to a specific pH for a specific fish or reason. The reason > we do regular PWC's (partial water changes) is to re-supply trace elements > and minerals to the tank so the fish and plants can utilize these > trace elements. Distilled water does not have any of these. But to answer your > question... no it does not have to be dechlorinated since it should not have > anything but H2O in it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Distilled Water > > Is it necessary to dechlorinate distilled water bought at a store? > Would I have to worry about other contaminates? > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 9:25:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29416	From: Chris	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Well then, assuming you were rich and could afford mineral water, or had a clean source of mineral spring water, would that work? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Distilled may or may not be pH neutral. Only testing it would let you know > what the pH actually is. As previously explained, distilled water is NOT > GOOD for fish since fish need the trace elements and minerals found in > normal water. > > This is why 99% of people use their tap water for their fish and just use a > simple dechlor to treat the chlorine/chloramine/heavy metals. There is no > reason to use all the stress-this or slime-that type products that just add > other chemicals to a tank that does not need them. > > There are cases where people need specific types of water for certain fish, > induce breeding, saltwater fish, etc. but for the overwhelming majority of > freshwater fish keepers.... tap water is fine as long as it's treated with a > dechlor product. > > I use either API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator > and both of them are very efficient (or concentrated) so very little product > is needed compared to many of the other brands, yet they have similar prices > for similar sizes. They both simply treat chlorine/chloramine and heavy > metals. The 16 oz. bottle of API's is the best bargain but my local > PetsMart doesn't carry it in the store. When I do not have a large enough > order to get free shipping, I'll settle for the 8oz TopFin bottle which is > the next best bargain at PetsMart. Remember to always print out the online > price first as the local stores will match the online prices. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water > > I figured distilled was ph nuetral and would be safe to add directly to a > tank when the water gets low since I'm looking to not use dechlorinaters. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Why are you thinking of adding distilled water to your tank? It's not > > a good thing to add in most cases unless you are using it to dilute > your tap > > water to get it to a specific pH for a specific fish or reason. The > reason > > we do regular PWC's (partial water changes) is to re-supply trace > elements > > and minerals to the tank so the fish and plants can utilize these > > trace elements. Distilled water does not have any of these. But to > answer your > > question... no it does not have to be dechlorinated since it should > not have > > anything but H2O in it. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Distilled Water > > > > Is it necessary to dechlorinate distilled water bought at a store? > > Would I have to worry about other contaminates? > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 > Tested on: 8/26/2008 9:14:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29417	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Remember that most fish live in waterways that have a lot more going on in them than what comes out of our taps. I think I addressed people paying out the wazoo for so-called mineral water in my previous post. Most tap waters are "mineral waters" from natural waterways, etc. Once again, I ask why are you so opposed to using good old tap water? What are your tap water baseline parameters? See my blog for establishing your tap water baseline. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water Well then, assuming you were rich and could afford mineral water, or had a clean source of mineral spring water, would that work? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Distilled may or may not be pH neutral. Only testing it would let you know > what the pH actually is. As previously explained, distilled water is NOT > GOOD for fish since fish need the trace elements and minerals found in > normal water. > > This is why 99% of people use their tap water for their fish and just use a > simple dechlor to treat the chlorine/chloramine/heavy metals. There is no > reason to use all the stress-this or slime-that type products that just add > other chemicals to a tank that does not need them. > > There are cases where people need specific types of water for certain fish, > induce breeding, saltwater fish, etc. but for the overwhelming majority of > freshwater fish keepers.... tap water is fine as long as it's treated with a > dechlor product. > > I use either API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator > and both of them are very efficient (or concentrated) so very little product > is needed compared to many of the other brands, yet they have similar prices > for similar sizes. They both simply treat chlorine/chloramine and > heavy metals. The 16 oz. bottle of API's is the best bargain but my > local PetsMart doesn't carry it in the store. When I do not have a > large enough > order to get free shipping, I'll settle for the 8oz TopFin bottle which is > the next best bargain at PetsMart. Remember to always print out the online > price first as the local stores will match the online prices. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water > > I figured distilled was ph nuetral and would be safe to add directly to a > tank when the water gets low since I'm looking to not use dechlorinaters. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Why are you thinking of adding distilled water to your tank? It's > > not a good thing to add in most cases unless you are using it to > > dilute > your tap > > water to get it to a specific pH for a specific fish or reason. The > reason > > we do regular PWC's (partial water changes) is to re-supply trace > elements > > and minerals to the tank so the fish and plants can utilize these > > trace elements. Distilled water does not have any of these. But to > answer your > > question... no it does not have to be dechlorinated since it should > not have > > anything but H2O in it. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Distilled Water > > > > Is it necessary to dechlorinate distilled water bought at a store? > > Would I have to worry about other contaminates? > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 9:30:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29418	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water

LOL! But if you're serious, I don't know whether to trust it not to be chlorinated unless it says it isn't. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water Well then, assuming you were rich and could afford mineral water, or had a clean source of mineral spring water, would that work? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Distilled may or may not be pH neutral. Only testing it would let you know > what the pH actually is. As previously explained, distilled water is NOT > GOOD for fish since fish need the trace elements and minerals found in > normal water. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29419	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

Would you really change that much water? Wouldn't it then have to minicycle? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling \\Steve//, Do you not do a large 90% water change at the end of fishless cycling before adding fish? At the end of a fishless cycle, the KH is often getting very low due to the nitrifying bacteria utilizing it during the 2-6 week process. I've always done a large 90%+ water change with dechlored water just to get the GH and KH levels back up to where it would normally be.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29420	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

Age is seriously getting me, Lenny. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:58 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling Dora, If you have pneumonia, you probably shouldn't be fooling with your tank but I'm sure your pneumonia would not affect the nitrifying bacteria but the Doctor would direct you to stay in bed until well. ;-)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29421	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Fish

First, did you remove the carbon from your filters? If not, do so immediately and do a 25% PWC and start your treatment over. What size tank? You've got some fish that get pretty big so you should have at least 100G+. If you don't have a really BIG tank, besides the Ick, your fish may have reduced immune systems due to being in an undersized tank or overstocked and the reduced immune system is also causing them to not get well as fast and/or have other issues. I know I'm presuming your tank is not a 100G+ tank and if I'm wrong, I apologize, but I've been answering forum posts for quite a while and this is one of the most common problems and causes of fish disease in the hobby. Your pleco also seems to be suffering from a secondary bacterial infections which is most likely what is causing the cloudy eye (internal bacteria) and fin rot issues (external bacteria). Check with Jungle to see if their antibacterial food is compatible with Ick Guard II and try to get your fish to eat it. You might have to add an antibacterial med to the algae thins or whatever you normally feed your pleco. If the fish won't eat the medicated food, then you might have to go with a compatible antibacterial treatment to the water column. Check with Jungle for compatible treatments and run their answers by us here so we can double check their advice. Here is their contact page... http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/contact.asp Continue following the directions on the Jungle Ick Guard II, including doing PWC's (partial water changes) and replacing the removed portion of Ick Guard II and keeping the tank well aerated since the higher temps result in a lower O2 level in the water. If you have live plants, do not turn the lights off 24/7 as the plants will help raise the O2 levels during photosynthesis. You can also lower the water level an inch so that the filter return causes more surface agitation and splashing which will help raise the O2 levels and reduce the CO2 levels. Last but not least... this is a lesson to others that you should ALWAYS quarantine new fish for a couple of weeks before adding them to your main display tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angela Bauer Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 6:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish Hello all...this is my first time here, and hopefully you can help me. I had an outbreak of Ick 4 days ago. I lost my black and white spotted catfish, but I figured I would since I couldn't get to the pet store until later that night and he was already really far gone. My red tail shark and pleco have been very listless and hanging out by air stones (I have 4 in there right now while I'm treating the Ick from the catfish) and not eating. I treated for 3 days, and did a 40% water change and raised the temp to about 83. It's an old heater, and I'm nervous about going higher. I also covered my tank to make it dark. Now the red tail is swimming around a bit and poking at the gravel, but my pleco looks bad. Parts of him are pale, and his eyes are cloudy. Fins on him and my tetras look a little chewed up. However, Mr Pleco was sticking to the side of the tank a few hours after I changed the water, upped the temp, and covered it. I'm using Ick Guard II. I treated today after the water change. I'm very confused...if it wasn't for the catfish looking like he was dropped in salt, I wouldn't be so sure it was ick...but what now??? I want to help my pleco, but I can't stop treating for ick since it's only been 4 days. PLEASE HELP!! Oh, and I know where the ick came from...the red swordtails I recently purchased. Two of those 3 died. Third is fine. Her fins are fine too. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 9:54:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29422	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

NO. The nitrifying bacteria DO NOT live in the water column. They live on the surface areas of your filter media, gravel and other tank surfaces. The overwhelming majority of nitrifying bacteria live in the filter media (floss/sponge/etc.) in filter systems other than a UGF (under gravel filter). With only a UGF, the majority would live on the gravel surfaces. A small piece of filter floss/poly pad has much more surface area than all the gravel in a tank which is why filter floss/poly pad is one of the main places where the nitrifying bacteria live. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling Would you really change that much water? Wouldn't it then have to minicycle? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling \\Steve//, Do you not do a large 90% water change at the end of fishless cycling before adding fish? At the end of a fishless cycle, the KH is often getting very low due to the nitrifying bacteria utilizing it during the 2-6 week process. I've always done a large 90%+ water change with dechlored water just to get the GH and KH levels back up to where it would normally be. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 9:59:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29423	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself

I am a big fan of books. Dora mentioned a book to you, and the other day, I happened to receive a mail from one of the people I know, who, coincidently, has written a few books for beginners. Being the shameless person that I am, I asked him for the titles, as I had forgotten them. Probably after he laughed his fool head off, he was kind enough to reply with the titles of 3 books he has authored. _The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums_ _The Complete Idiot's Guide to Saltwater Aquariums_ _The Pocket Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums_ None of them are in print any longer, but you should be able to find them used, on Amazon, or, possibly at your local used book dealer. An excellent reference book is the _Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1_. There are short sections on setting up, and maintaining an aquarium, as well as a section on plants. However, the majority of the book is pictures of fish, along with short descriptions of the fish. When you read the book, hold it in an upright position, so you do not drool on the pages. You'll want to have this book around for a long time. The information in this book is fairly accurate. The problem with web sites is that there are a lot of web sites that are pure junk out there, and there is no real control to show which are the bad ones, other than you recognizing that what is being said is not true, very difficult for a novice. One place that is pretty good is the Krib (http://www.thekrib.com). The problem with The Krib is that it appears not to be actively maintained now. The information up there, however, is top rate. Do a Google on Badman's or Badman, or a variation thereof, to find another good site. The URL is somewhere in my bookmarks, and I am too lazy to search through a nearly 400K bookmark file to find it right now. Then, there are lists, like this one, where it is tough to pass along bad information without being challenged. Feel free to ask any dumb, or, for that matter, intelligent questions you may have. BTW, if anyone has read this far, because they are curious as to who the author is of those "Idiot" books, it is one Mike Wickham. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introducing myself Hello everyone! I'm newbie looking to learn as much as I can about fish keeping. I've had tanks before in the past (when I was a child), but wasn't successful at them. I want to do it right and would appreciate any websites that could help me. I would really like websites that go beyond just the basics and actually teach the technical stuff. Your help would be appreciated! :) Thanks in advance! Chris

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29424	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself

\\Steve//, The two free online fish keeping tutorials that I mention often are actually from The Krib's and Badman's sites. I have the links on my blog "A to Z of Fish Keeping". I'm glad you think highly of those two sites also. The Skeptical Aquarist is another old-timer that created a very nice website and I often provide links to his pages as well but he doesn't have an online tutorial like The Krib's and Badman's. They were around in the beginning of the days of the internet when there were usenet forums and bulletin board services instead of the modern day forums like Yahoo Groups and other forums. Here's a snip from my A to Z page http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to-training.h tml with the two links... ------ (Start Snip) BEGINNERS TUTORIAL - START HERE -http://faq.thekrib.com/begin.html This is one of my favorite places to send new fish keepers as they can learn about the various aspects of fish keeping by following all of the links in this tutorial. Pay particular attention to "The Nitrogen Cycle", "Fishless Cycling" (recommended), "Cycling With Fish"(not recommended but you may already be stuck with this) and Basic Water Chemistry but please read over all of the other links as well and feel free to ask lots of questions at the forums I have listed to the right, where you will usually find me or many other experienced fish keepers. And if you want to learn even more, here is another tutorial site - http://badmanstropicalfish.com/basics/basics_aquariums.html ------ (End Snip) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Introducing myself I am a big fan of books. Dora mentioned a book to you, and the other day, I happened to receive a mail from one of the people I know, who, coincidently, has written a few books for beginners. Being the shameless person that I am, I asked him for the titles, as I had forgotten them. Probably after he laughed his fool head off, he was kind enough to reply with the titles of 3 books he has authored. _The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums_ _The Complete Idiot's Guide to Saltwater Aquariums_ _The Pocket Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums_ None of them are in print any longer, but you should be able to find them used, on Amazon, or, possibly at your local used book dealer. An excellent reference book is the _Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1_. There are short sections on setting up, and maintaining an aquarium, as well as a section on plants. However, the majority of the book is pictures of fish, along with short descriptions of the fish. When you read the book, hold it in an upright position, so you do not drool on the pages. You'll want to have this book around for a long time. The information in this book is fairly accurate. The problem with web sites is that there are a lot of web sites that are pure junk out there, and there is no real control to show which are the bad ones, other than you recognizing that what is being said is not true, very difficult for a novice. One place that is pretty good is the Krib (http://www.thekrib.com <http://www.thekrib.com> ). The problem with The Krib is that it appears not to be actively maintained now. The information up there, however, is top rate. Do a Google on Badman's or Badman, or a variation thereof, to find another good site. The URL is somewhere in my bookmarks, and I am too lazy to search through a nearly 400K bookmark file to find it right now. Then, there are lists, like this one, where it is tough to pass along bad information without being challenged. Feel free to ask any dumb, or, for that matter, intelligent questions you may have. BTW, if anyone has read this far, because they are curious as to who the author is of those "Idiot" books, it is one Mike Wickham. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Introducing myself Hello everyone! I'm newbie looking to learn as much as I can about fish keeping. I've had tanks before in the past (when I was a child), but wasn't successful at them. I want to do it right and would appreciate any websites that could help me. I would really like websites that go beyond just the basics and actually teach the technical stuff. Your help would be appreciated! :) Thanks in advance! Chris ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 10:16:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 10:44:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29425	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

Ahhh, that must be why I had a problem with my nitrates a few years ago when I had the rockin' pneumonia and the boogie woogie flu. (That is the song title, and part of the lyrics of a tune written by Huey "Piano" Smith in 1957 for you youngin's out there. See http://www.videoplayer.hu/videos/play/147819 for an undated video of Johnny Rivers performing the tune.) <G> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling Nitrite cannot be converted to nitrate in the presence of pneumonia. So if you have a positive reading for nitrites but not nitrates you probably have ammonia. Not that that's the only situation in which you'd have ammonia. For some reason I often have as much as .5 ppm of ammonia and 5 ppm of nitrates and no nitrites, and I even tried my newer unopened bottle of nitrite reagent. I don't know why this would be. Maybe the bacteria starters and additives I've used had more nitrite processing bacteria than ammonia processing bacteria, I don't know. There is ammonia in the tap water, but I add enough Prime to the water I''m preparing to put in the tank to get it down. And of course it's common to have high ammonia levels and low levels of nitrites and nitrates because the bacteria that act on ammonia and nitrites haven't had a chance to grow. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under control. I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29426	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

Partial water changes should be a part of any cycling routine. Then one need not worry about the points you raise here. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling \\Steve//, Do you not do a large 90% water change at the end of fishless cycling before adding fish? At the end of a fishless cycle, the KH is often getting very low due to the nitrifying bacteria utilizing it during the 2-6 week process. I've always done a large 90%+ water change with dechlored water just to get the GH and KH levels back up to where it would normally be. In fact... if someone is fishless cycling and they have soft water or low KH water, the fishless cycle will sometimes stall due to too low of KH levels for the bacteria to continue growing. All that is needed at that point is a PWC to get things going again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling The best, and also easiest way, to cycle a tank without fish is to use ammonia. Go down to the grocery store and find yourself some plain ammonia, no detergent or scents added, just plain ammonia. Get yourself over to the LFS and get yourself a master kit which usually includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits. For suggestions, see another thread going on here on the various test kits (Water Test Kits). When you go home, add enough of the ammonia to your tank to bring the reading up to 5 ppm. Measure the ammonia level each day, and add enough to bring it back to 5 ppm. Whet h ammonia gets to 0 ppm each day, start measuring your nitrites, Keep adding the ammonia each day until both ammonia and nitrites measure 0 ppm at the end of each 24 hour period. When this happens, add fish, and stop adding ammonia. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under control. I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29427	From: Angela Bauer	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Fish

I have a 29 tall for now, and the pleco isn't that big right now. There are 3 tetras, 1 sword, 1 Red Tail, and 7 guppies (for now...lol)  I did remove the carbon on the first day of treatment.  No live plants. I don't have a QTank because I have no idea what size to get. Mr. Pleco was back on the side of the tank last night, so that's a good sign. He'd been on the bottom for the last 3 days. Thank you so much, and I will def check out the jungle website!!!!!! ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:54:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish First, did you remove the carbon from your filters? If not, do so immediately and do a 25% PWC and start your treatment over. What size tank? You've got some fish that get pretty big so you should have at least 100G+. If you don't have a really BIG tank, besides the Ick, your fish may have reduced immune systems due to being in an undersized tank or overstocked and the reduced immune system is also causing them to not get well as fast and/or have other issues. I know I'm presuming your tank is not a 100G+ tank and if I'm wrong, I apologize, but I've been answering forum posts for quite a while and this is one of the most common problems and causes of fish disease in the hobby. Your pleco also seems to be suffering from a secondary bacterial infections which is most likely what is causing the cloudy eye (internal bacteria) and fin rot issues (external bacteria). Check with Jungle to see if their antibacterial food is compatible with Ick Guard II and try to get your fish to eat it. You might have to add an antibacterial med to the algae thins or whatever you normally feed your pleco. If the fish won't eat the medicated food, then you might have to go with a compatible antibacterial treatment to the water column. Check with Jungle for compatible treatments and run their answers by us here so we can double check their advice. Here is their contact page... http://www.junglela bs.com/pages/ contact.asp Continue following the directions on the Jungle Ick Guard II, including doing PWC's (partial water changes) and replacing the removed portion of Ick Guard II and keeping the tank well aerated since the higher temps result in a lower O2 level in the water. If you have live plants, do not turn the lights off 24/7 as the plants will help raise the O2 levels during photosynthesis. You can also lower the water level an inch so that the filter return causes more surface agitation and splashing which will help raise the O2 levels and reduce the CO2 levels. Last but not least... this is a lesson to others that you should ALWAYS quarantine new fish for a couple of weeks before adding them to your main display tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Angela Bauer Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 6:52 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish Hello all...this is my first time here, and hopefully you can help me. I had an outbreak of Ick 4 days ago. I lost my black and white spotted catfish, but I figured I would since I couldn't get to the pet store until later that night and he was already really far gone. My red tail shark and pleco have been very listless and hanging out by air stones (I have 4 in there right now while I'm treating the Ick from the catfish) and not eating. I treated for 3 days, and did a 40% water change and raised the temp to about 83. It's an old heater, and I'm nervous about going higher. I also covered my tank to make it dark. Now the red tail is swimming around a bit and poking at the gravel, but my pleco looks bad. Parts of him are pale, and his eyes are cloudy. Fins on him and my tetras look a little chewed up. However, Mr Pleco was sticking to the side of the tank a few hours after I changed the water, upped the temp, and covered it. I'm using Ick Guard II. I treated today after the water change. I'm very confused...if it wasn't for the catfish looking like he was dropped in salt, I wouldn't be so sure it was ick...but what now??? I want to help my pleco, but I can't stop treating for ick since it's only been 4 days. PLEASE HELP!! Oh, and I know where the ick came from...the red swordtails I recently purchased. Two of those 3 died. Third is fine. Her fins are fine too. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/26/2008 9:54:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29428	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Fish

The downside of a tall tank is that it does not have as much surface area or bottom area and many fish like to have their own territories so with limited bottom space, that becomes a stressor for the fish that wants it's own space and for the fish around it that are chased away all the time. The Red Tailed Shark is a very territorial fish and can be very aggressive to other RTS and other fish that look like it so avoid any other fish that look like the RTS. They are also bottom dwellers like the pleco so I'm sure it chases the pleco away on a regular basis which is a stressor to the pleco and when fish get stressed, their immune systems falter and they are more likely to get sick. Read this profile/care sheet on the RTS. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Epalzeorhynchus_bicolor.html What you should do after the pleco gets well is trade him in for a smaller dwarf species of plecos like a clown pleco or bristle nosed pleco or NOT get a pleco at all so you don't have a possible issue with the RTS. The common plecos grow to 18"+ and need at least 75G. The two I mentioned only grow to around 4" to 6" should you decide to get one anyhow. After the one or two larger fish, for a 29G, you would not be able to have any other larger fish so stick with a couple of schools of smaller 1"+ fish like cardinal tetras, neon tetras, zebra danios, etc. Do you know what kind of tetras you have now? There are hundreds of types of tetras ranging from small 1" to 6" or more so it's important to know the exact species and check them out before you buy in the future. You can find profiles and care sheets for most tropical fish at http://fish.mongabay.com. The profiles will recommend a minimum amount of water volume or tank size, proper foods, suggested companions (SC), preferred water parameters, etc. Also think about getting some live plants... easy and very easy to grow ones are listed in the two links below. They will help with the overall ecology of the tank and help create more territories so the fish feel more comfortable. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> &filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> &filter_by=3 You should also get some floating plants like Anacharis so that some of the babies from your guppies might survive.. although you don't have a lot of room for them so maybe that's not such a good idea. LOL But Anacharis is a fast growing plant and because it can be planted or left floating it gives you lots of options. I leave it floating in all of my tanks as it will suck up the nitrogenous compounds from the water column and some of the CO2 from the water and also get CO2 from the air which helps it grow faster. It also gets plenty of light by floating. You could also plant bunches of it in small 2" clay pots and stick them in the back corners and along the back of your tank and this will give you a nice background and help separate the territories for the fish. You have to go with the Very Easy plants since a 29G is so deep, the lighting does not reach the bottom as well so short plants may not get enough light so you might have to use the 2" clay pots for any plants you get just to raise them up a little so they get adequate light. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angela Bauer Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish I have a 29 tall for now, and the pleco isn't that big right now. There are 3 tetras, 1 sword, 1 Red Tail, and 7 guppies (for now...lol) I did remove the carbon on the first day of treatment. No live plants. I don't have a QTank because I have no idea what size to get. Mr. Pleco was back on the side of the tank last night, so that's a good sign. He'd been on the bottom for the last 3 days. Thank you so much, and I will def check out the jungle website!!!!!! ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:54:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish First, did you remove the carbon from your filters? If not, do so immediately and do a 25% PWC and start your treatment over. What size tank? You've got some fish that get pretty big so you should have at least 100G+. If you don't have a really BIG tank, besides the Ick, your fish may have reduced immune systems due to being in an undersized tank or overstocked and the reduced immune system is also causing them to not get well as fast and/or have other issues. I know I'm presuming your tank is not a 100G+ tank and if I'm wrong, I apologize, but I've been answering forum posts for quite a while and this is one of the most common problems and causes of fish disease in the hobby. Your pleco also seems to be suffering from a secondary bacterial infections which is most likely what is causing the cloudy eye (internal bacteria) and fin rot issues (external bacteria). Check with Jungle to see if their antibacterial food is compatible with Ick Guard II and try to get your fish to eat it. You might have to add an antibacterial med to the algae thins or whatever you normally feed your pleco. If the fish won't eat the medicated food, then you might have to go with a compatible antibacterial treatment to the water column. Check with Jungle for compatible treatments and run their answers by us here so we can double check their advice. Here is their contact page... http://www.junglela bs.com/pages/ contact.asp Continue following the directions on the Jungle Ick Guard II, including doing PWC's (partial water changes) and replacing the removed portion of Ick Guard II and keeping the tank well aerated since the higher temps result in a lower O2 level in the water. If you have live plants, do not turn the lights off 24/7 as the plants will help raise the O2 levels during photosynthesis. You can also lower the water level an inch so that the filter return causes more surface agitation and splashing which will help raise the O2 levels and reduce the CO2 levels. Last but not least... this is a lesson to others that you should ALWAYS quarantine new fish for a couple of weeks before adding them to your main display tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Angela Bauer Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 6:52 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish Hello all...this is my first time here, and hopefully you can help me. I had an outbreak of Ick 4 days ago. I lost my black and white spotted catfish, but I figured I would since I couldn't get to the pet store until later that night and he was already really far gone. My red tail shark and pleco have been very listless and hanging out by air stones (I have 4 in there right now while I'm treating the Ick from the catfish) and not eating. I treated for 3 days, and did a 40% water change and raised the temp to about 83. It's an old heater, and I'm nervous about going higher. I also covered my tank to make it dark. Now the red tail is swimming around a bit and poking at the gravel, but my pleco looks bad. Parts of him are pale, and his eyes are cloudy. Fins on him and my tetras look a little chewed up. However, Mr Pleco was sticking to the side of the tank a few hours after I changed the water, upped the temp, and covered it. I'm using Ick Guard II. I treated today after the water change. I'm very confused...if it wasn't for the catfish looking like he was dropped in salt, I wouldn't be so sure it was ick...but what now??? I want to help my pleco, but I can't stop treating for ick since it's only been 4 days. PLEASE HELP!! Oh, and I know where the ick came from...the red swordtails I recently purchased. Two of those 3 died. Third is fine. Her fins are fine too. _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/27/2008 3:43:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29429	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

You can see the eggs on the glass but they are everywhere. Yes the eggs might still be in the tank. The treatments to kill snails also have a high likelihood to kill your fish and/or your plants most people won’t use them. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycling I understand what you mean. The eggs are hard to see right? Does that mean that just because the snails are dead from starvation, the eggs might still be in the tank? Aren't there treatments to kill snails? --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Ammonia is easier, but rotting flakes will eventually work. Buy a different > test kit so you can monitor ammonia. We like API Master Freshwater Test > Kit. Until you see a Nitrate reading you know you still have a way to go to > be cycled. > > > > Snails cannot reproduce more than their food supply, but once you have fish, > there will always be food for the snails. And they get into everything, > even the pores of your sponges. Finally, there is no way to eradicate them > without killing your fish and/or plants as well. They clog my Python, now I > have to stop my water changes 3 or 4 times to remove snails so the water > will flow. > > > > Good luck! > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling > > > > When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle > before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let > the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get > bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the > water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any > algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was > to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce > and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under > control. > > I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see > how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would > eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some > interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in > > I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it > doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to > add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen > any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading > zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their > water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29430	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: New w/sick fish

Normally I would not put any fish in a tank that was not cycled but it sounds like you don’t have a choice. If you cycled the 30G for only 2 weeks I don’t think it could have enough beneficial bacteria to share with a new tank yet. What is the ammonia reading? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New w/sick fish For one sick fish I'd use a little hospital with no decorations and you dn't have to cycle it, just make major water changes often. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "tillmanalbany" <tillmanalbany@ <mailto:tillmanalbany%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:39 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New w/sick fish Hi Lenny I have one other empty tank, a 20G, that I could set up this evening as a Q-tank. For tonight I would have to take the Whisper filter from the 30G they are in now, and that would only leave the Power Head attached to the lift tube in that tank. Will that be okay for tonight? How do I get the 20G cycled tonight for the one sick fish? The readings are: Nitrate 10, Nitrite 0, Hardness 75, Chlorie 0, Alkalinity 40, PH 7.2 I set up the tank 2 weeks ago and used fish to cycle it. I don't know how the water compared to the fish store, but I took about 30 minutes of adding my tank's water to the bagged fish before adding the four fish to the tank. I await your continued advice for the sick mollie. Thanks. Peggy --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You should remove the ill fish to a quarantine tank. A 5G or 10G tank works > great as a Q-tank and you can often find them for free on places like > FreeCycle.org. Then all you would need is a low cost bubble filter for > under $10.00.. or possibly for free too. Quite often, other fish will nip > and harass a sick fish until it is so stressed that it dies. It's just > basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. It's why the sick fish is > trying to hide in a corner. If your tank was heavily planted, the sick fish > would be hiding as best as possible behind plants to avoid drawing attention > to itself. > > What are your other water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any > other tests you may have like GH and KH? Your alkalinity test is probably > the GH (general hardness) test which means your water is very soft so you > may need to buffer it up but we need your other test results to know for > certain. > > Also, we would need your tap water baseline test results (see my blog). > > How long has the tank been set up? Did you fishless cycle the tank or were > you cycling with fish? Was your tank water parameters identical or nearly > identical to the water at the pet store? Often, not acclimating new fish > slowly enough will cause them pH or osmotic stress issues resulting in > health issues. > > It could just be an isolated incident of a new fish having health problems > related to being shipped around multiple times as stress will cause fish to > have immune system issues which makes them more susceptible to minor > pathogens they would normally be resistant to. I'm also worried that if you > did not fishless cycle the tank, you may have added too many new fish too > quickly and your tank could be having an ammonia/nitrite spike. Once again, > the test results would clarify this for us. > > Here is a profile and care sheet for Kuhli Loaches > http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html> mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html and for Livebearers > (Mollies, etc.) http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm> mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of tillmanalbany > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New w/sick fish > > I am hoping someone can give me advice. I am new to this, I have a newly > cycled 30 gallon fresh water tank. I started with one tetra, (doing fine), > then a week later added 3 Balloon Belly Mollys and a Kuhli Loach. That was > about four days ago. Today I noticed one of the mollys hanging out on the > bottom. He showed some interest in the morning feeding, but not much. Now he > is not leaving the bottom corner of the tank and the Kuhli Loach is > occasionally nipping at him. > > I did a test on the water and it all looks fine except the alkalinity is a > little low at 40. > > Suggestions? > > Thanks, Peggy > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080825-0, 08/25/2008 > Tested on: 8/25/2008 10:41:08 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29431	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself

Hi Chris, Besides extending to you a most welcome and hopefully permanent stay on our Group Site, I'd just like to mention that you should look into those recommendations of obtaining a good book or two, rather than looking for "good" websites related to this subject. There is no way that a beginner can recognize whether a website offering advice in the aquarium hobby would be giving sound and factual information. Anyone posing as an authority on this subject can start his own website, making it look like they invented the hobby. Get some good basic books on this hobby, some which have been already pointed out, and your success with fish this time should be infinitely better if you follow what's outlined in them. You can't go wrong with such sound advice. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29432	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

I hate to think what's going to happen when my incipient Alzheimers gets worse. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:47 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling Ahhh, that must be why I had a problem with my nitrates a few years ago when I had the rockin' pneumonia and the boogie woogie flu. (That is the song title, and part of the lyrics of a tune written by Huey "Piano" Smith in 1957 for you youngin's out there. See http://www.videoplayer.hu/videos/play/147819 for an undated video of Johnny Rivers performing the tune.) <G> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling Nitrite cannot be converted to nitrate in the presence of pneumonia. So if you have a positive reading for nitrites but not nitrates you probably have ammonia. Not that that's the only situation in which you'd have ammonia. For some reason I often have as much as .5 ppm of ammonia and 5 ppm of nitrates and no nitrites, and I even tried my newer unopened bottle of nitrite reagent. I don't know why this would be. Maybe the bacteria starters and additives I've used had more nitrite processing bacteria than ammonia processing bacteria, I don't know. There is ammonia in the tap water, but I add enough Prime to the water I''m preparing to put in the tank to get it down. And of course it's common to have high ammonia levels and low levels of nitrites and nitrates because the bacteria that act on ammonia and nitrites haven't had a chance to grow. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under control. I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29433	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

You do partial water changes while doing fishless cycling? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:52 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling Partial water changes should be a part of any cycling routine. Then one need not worry about the points you raise here. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling \\Steve//, Do you not do a large 90% water change at the end of fishless cycling before adding fish? At the end of a fishless cycle, the KH is often getting very low due to the nitrifying bacteria utilizing it during the 2-6 week process. I've always done a large 90%+ water change with dechlored water just to get the GH and KH levels back up to where it would normally be. In fact... if someone is fishless cycling and they have soft water or low KH water, the fishless cycle will sometimes stall due to too low of KH levels for the bacteria to continue growing. All that is needed at that point is a PWC to get things going again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling The best, and also easiest way, to cycle a tank without fish is to use ammonia. Go down to the grocery store and find yourself some plain ammonia, no detergent or scents added, just plain ammonia. Get yourself over to the LFS and get yourself a master kit which usually includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits. For suggestions, see another thread going on here on the various test kits (Water Test Kits). When you go home, add enough of the ammonia to your tank to bring the reading up to 5 ppm. Measure the ammonia level each day, and add enough to bring it back to 5 ppm. Whet h ammonia gets to 0 ppm each day, start measuring your nitrites, Keep adding the ammonia each day until both ammonia and nitrites measure 0 ppm at the end of each 24 hour period. When this happens, add fish, and stop adding ammonia. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under control. I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29434	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sharks

Lenny: Are all "sharks" really cyprinds, related to barbs and danios, and sometimes actually barbs? One of my fish books says they are very difficult fish to keep in an aquarium, atleast for beginners. I didn't consider them because I thought they were sharks. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish The downside of a tall tank is that it does not have as much surface area or bottom area and many fish like to have their own territories so with limited bottom space, that becomes a stressor for the fish that wants it's own space and for the fish around it that are chased away all the time. The Red Tailed Shark is a very territorial fish and can be very aggressive to other RTS and other fish that look like it so avoid any other fish that look like the RTS. They are also bottom dwellers like the pleco so I'm sure it chases the pleco away on a regular basis which is a stressor to the pleco and when fish get stressed, their immune systems falter and they are more likely to get sick. Read this profile/care sheet on the RTS. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Epalzeorhynchus_bicolor.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29435	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish

In a message dated 8/26/2008 9:51:46 A.M. Central Daylight Time, skywavebe@... writes: Hi Enid, I have feeders in the pond. The last time I counted there were about 174 of them in there. The pond is not an acre large but fits in our back yard. Still with all of these fish and I have tried to find additional homes for some of them, I still have a large stock and with my filters going there does not seem to be a problem. I will have to test the water again when I get home but the filters must be doing their job as well as the plants in the pond. I plan to cover the pond this year with a plexiglass structure once I build it- I think time is growing short. Sam in Chicagoland, See, I learned the hard way, I live in Florida, and after the 2004-2005 hurricane seasons I learned to keep fish in such a way as to assure their survival in case of a power outage that might last over a week. That also means I don't have regular pond fish, but selected fancier goldfish for my pond. In my case, 3 ryukin (one a deep orange and 2 calicoes) and 2 telescope eyes (one a black moor, the other a very colorful calico)...fish number six is a feeder goldfish that managed to dodge the turtle for 2 months ( in another pond) and I decided to rescue. In that short time he went from a barely inch and a half feeder to a 4 inch sarassa. I will be relocating him to a friend's pond, thou. The red ryukin is the only female in the gang and that sarassa will be too rough on her. Enid Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says.... SHIT, She's awake! **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29436	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sharks

Common names are not a good way to tell. I've seen all kinds of fish with the word "shark" as part of their names. It's strictly a marketing thing although I'm betting the name dissuades as many people as it attracts. It's best to find out the correct species name and do a little research first to find out more about the species. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sharks Lenny: Are all "sharks" really cyprinds, related to barbs and danios, and sometimes actually barbs? One of my fish books says they are very difficult fish to keep in an aquarium, atleast for beginners. I didn't consider them because I thought they were sharks. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish The downside of a tall tank is that it does not have as much surface area or bottom area and many fish like to have their own territories so with limited bottom space, that becomes a stressor for the fish that wants it's own space and for the fish around it that are chased away all the time. The Red Tailed Shark is a very territorial fish and can be very aggressive to other RTS and other fish that look like it so avoid any other fish that look like the RTS. They are also bottom dwellers like the pleco so I'm sure it chases the pleco away on a regular basis which is a stressor to the pleco and when fish get stressed, their immune systems falter and they are more likely to get sick. Read this profile/care sheet on the RTS. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Epalzeorhynchus_bicolor.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Epalzeorhynchus_bicolor.html> ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/27/2008 8:48:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080827-0, 08/27/2008 Tested on: 8/27/2008 12:27:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29437	From: Angela Bauer	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Fish

You are the most awesome person, thanks!! Could I use the fungus clear by Jungle at the same time? Or hold off? As for the baby guppies...it wouldn't bother me if they didn't make it...I want to get rid of them, but don't have the heart to kill them and no one wants any...especially after this bout of ick. And they keep having more babies!! I really want to keep Mr Pleco, so I'm seriously looking at the 75 gal tank for him. The tetras are a clear/yellow with some red and white on the fins. I can't for the life of me remember what they're called right now. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 4:43:14 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish The downside of a tall tank is that it does not have as much surface area or bottom area and many fish like to have their own territories so with limited bottom space, that becomes a stressor for the fish that wants it's own space and for the fish around it that are chased away all the time. The Red Tailed Shark is a very territorial fish and can be very aggressive to other RTS and other fish that look like it so avoid any other fish that look like the RTS. They are also bottom dwellers like the pleco so I'm sure it chases the pleco away on a regular basis which is a stressor to the pleco and when fish get stressed, their immune systems falter and they are more likely to get sick. Read this profile/care sheet on the RTS. http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Epalzeorhynchus_ bicolor.html What you should do after the pleco gets well is trade him in for a smaller dwarf species of plecos like a clown pleco or bristle nosed pleco or NOT get a pleco at all so you don't have a possible issue with the RTS. The common plecos grow to 18"+ and need at least 75G. The two I mentioned only grow to around 4" to 6" should you decide to get one anyhow. After the one or two larger fish, for a 29G, you would not be able to have any other larger fish so stick with a couple of schools of smaller 1"+ fish like cardinal tetras, neon tetras, zebra danios, etc. Do you know what kind of tetras you have now? There are hundreds of types of tetras ranging from small 1" to 6" or more so it's important to know the exact species and check them out before you buy in the future. You can find profiles and care sheets for most tropical fish at http://fish. mongabay. com. The profiles will recommend a minimum amount of water volume or tank size, proper foods, suggested companions (SC), preferred water parameters, etc. Also think about getting some live plants... easy and very easy to grow ones are listed in the two links below. They will help with the overall ecology of the tank and help create more territories so the fish feel more comfortable. http://www.plantgee k..net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2 <http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2&filter_ by=2> &filter_by=2 http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2 <http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2&filter_ by=3> &filter_by=3 You should also get some floating plants like Anacharis so that some of the babies from your guppies might survive.. although you don't have a lot of room for them so maybe that's not such a good idea. LOL But Anacharis is a fast growing plant and because it can be planted or left floating it gives you lots of options. I leave it floating in all of my tanks as it will suck up the nitrogenous compounds from the water column and some of the CO2 from the water and also get CO2 from the air which helps it grow faster. It also gets plenty of light by floating. You could also plant bunches of it in small 2" clay pots and stick them in the back corners and along the back of your tank and this will give you a nice background and help separate the territories for the fish. You have to go with the Very Easy plants since a 29G is so deep, the lighting does not reach the bottom as well so short plants may not get enough light so you might have to use the 2" clay pots for any plants you get just to raise them up a little so they get adequate light. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Angela Bauer Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:52 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish I have a 29 tall for now, and the pleco isn't that big right now. There are 3 tetras, 1 sword, 1 Red Tail, and 7 guppies (for now...lol) I did remove the carbon on the first day of treatment. No live plants. I don't have a QTank because I have no idea what size to get. Mr. Pleco was back on the side of the tank last night, so that's a good sign. He'd been on the bottom for the last 3 days. Thank you so much, and I will def check out the jungle website!!!!! ! ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:54:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish First, did you remove the carbon from your filters? If not, do so immediately and do a 25% PWC and start your treatment over. What size tank? You've got some fish that get pretty big so you should have at least 100G+. If you don't have a really BIG tank, besides the Ick, your fish may have reduced immune systems due to being in an undersized tank or overstocked and the reduced immune system is also causing them to not get well as fast and/or have other issues. I know I'm presuming your tank is not a 100G+ tank and if I'm wrong, I apologize, but I've been answering forum posts for quite a while and this is one of the most common problems and causes of fish disease in the hobby. Your pleco also seems to be suffering from a secondary bacterial infections which is most likely what is causing the cloudy eye (internal bacteria) and fin rot issues (external bacteria). Check with Jungle to see if their antibacterial food is compatible with Ick Guard II and try to get your fish to eat it. You might have to add an antibacterial med to the algae thins or whatever you normally feed your pleco. If the fish won't eat the medicated food, then you might have to go with a compatible antibacterial treatment to the water column. Check with Jungle for compatible treatments and run their answers by us here so we can double check their advice. Here is their contact page... http://www.junglela bs.com/pages/ contact.asp Continue following the directions on the Jungle Ick Guard II, including doing PWC's (partial water changes) and replacing the removed portion of Ick Guard II and keeping the tank well aerated since the higher temps result in a lower O2 level in the water. If you have live plants, do not turn the lights off 24/7 as the plants will help raise the O2 levels during photosynthesis. You can also lower the water level an inch so that the filter return causes more surface agitation and splashing which will help raise the O2 levels and reduce the CO2 levels. Last but not least... this is a lesson to others that you should ALWAYS quarantine new fish for a couple of weeks before adding them to your main display tank.. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Angela Bauer Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 6:52 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish Hello all...this is my first time here, and hopefully you can help me. I had an outbreak of Ick 4 days ago. I lost my black and white spotted catfish, but I figured I would since I couldn't get to the pet store until later that night and he was already really far gone. My red tail shark and pleco have been very listless and hanging out by air stones (I have 4 in there right now while I'm treating the Ick from the catfish) and not eating. I treated for 3 days, and did a 40% water change and raised the temp to about 83. It's an old heater, and I'm nervous about going higher. I also covered my tank to make it dark. Now the red tail is swimming around a bit and poking at the gravel, but my pleco looks bad. Parts of him are pale, and his eyes are cloudy. Fins on him and my tetras look a little chewed up.. However, Mr Pleco was sticking to the side of the tank a few hours after I changed the water, upped the temp, and covered it. I'm using Ick Guard II. I treated today after the water change. I'm very confused...if it wasn't for the catfish looking like he was dropped in salt, I wouldn't be so sure it was ick...but what now??? I want to help my pleco, but I can't stop treating for ick since it's only been 4 days. PLEASE HELP!! Oh, and I know where the ick came from...the red swordtails I recently purchased. Two of those 3 died. Third is fine. Her fins are fine too. _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080826-0, 08/26/2008 Tested on: 8/27/2008 3:43:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29438	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Fish

I don't think you need fungus clear. I don't think you've mentioned anything that would be considered one of the fungus diseases. It's not a good thing to mix meds as the original illness and meds are already tough on the fish in the first place. There are some that can be mixed without much negative effect but I just don't know enough about Jungle's products to know. That's why I suggested checking directly with them and then checking back here with their answer. The only thing I would consider adding to your tank right now, as I previously stated, would be an antibacterial med that is compatible with the Ick Guard II. Check with Jungle to see if they have one that is compatible. If you can't get a definite answer, then wait for the Ick Guard II to complete it's directed treatment and then do a series of 25% PWC's and gravel vacuuming, one every few hours, to remove the old medicine and dead Ick remnants. Then run some fresh carbon for a few hours before starting a new medicine treatment, if needed. Hopefully, as the Ick Guard II continues to kill the Ich parasites, the fishes own immune systems will begin to get stronger and they'll fight off any secondary issues on their own. Maybe someone else will recognize your description of your tetras but I've only owned a couple of tetra species over the years and your description doesn't ring a bell for me. 75G would be a minimum for the pleco so you will still have to do weekly PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance... and go for the longer/wider tank rather than the deeper tank as the surface area and bottom area are just as important as the total water volume. Fortunately, common pleco's are slow growers to some degree so hopefully it will not be stunted in your smaller tank. To give you an example, I adopted/rescued a 10G tank a few years ago that had a common pleco, two opaline/blue gouramis, three buenos aires tetras and three zebra danios (both of them had full schools at one time but slowly died off before I rescued the tank). Those fish should have been in a 100G+ sized tank but were kept in the 10G for two years. The pleco was barely 4" long after two years. After quarantining them, I moved him into my 65G tank and split up the other fish into two other tanks. The pleco grew from barely 4" to 10" in just 18 months in my 65G tank and then I had to rehome him since my plans for an even larger tank was changed by Hurricane Katrina (me and all of my fish made it!). I was planning on two 150G tanks.. one for my goldfish and coolwater fish and one for tropical's but my two goldfish have to keep on living in the 65G for now until I can buy a bigger house once prices come back down around here. Anyhow.. my point is that the sooner you can get a larger tank, the better off the pleco will be and less likely it will be permanently stunted. Once you find out what kind of tetras you have, you may need to rethink your plans with them as well. Most tetras prefer to be in schools of 6 or more but depending on your species and due to your limited tank space, you may or may not be able to keep them. As far as the guppies, the RTS and tetras may take care of any future babies once they get over the Ick and treatment. You could also go with all males or females to avoid the over-breeding problems... although the females will likely drop a couple of more batches even after you separate them. You should check out your local http://www.FreeCycle.org group and look for a 10G tank and set up that you can keep handy for a quarantine/hospital tank for future purposes. I haven't been on my local FreeCycle in a while but I use to see smaller tanks on there all the time... and even larger ones occasionally. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angela Bauer Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish You are the most awesome person, thanks!! Could I use the fungus clear by Jungle at the same time? Or hold off? As for the baby guppies...it wouldn't bother me if they didn't make it...I want to get rid of them, but don't have the heart to kill them and no one wants any...especially after this bout of ick. And they keep having more babies!! I really want to keep Mr Pleco, so I'm seriously looking at the 75 gal tank for him. The tetras are a clear/yellow with some red and white on the fins. I can't for the life of me remember what they're called right now. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 4:43:14 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish The downside of a tall tank is that it does not have as much surface area or bottom area and many fish like to have their own territories so with limited bottom space, that becomes a stressor for the fish that wants it's own space and for the fish around it that are chased away all the time. The Red Tailed Shark is a very territorial fish and can be very aggressive to other RTS and other fish that look like it so avoid any other fish that look like the RTS. They are also bottom dwellers like the pleco so I'm sure it chases the pleco away on a regular basis which is a stressor to the pleco and when fish get stressed, their immune systems falter and they are more likely to get sick. Read this profile/care sheet on the RTS. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Epalzeorhynchus_bicolor.html What you should do after the pleco gets well is trade him in for a smaller dwarf species of plecos like a clown pleco or bristle nosed pleco or NOT get a pleco at all so you don't have a possible issue with the RTS. The common plecos grow to 18"+ and need at least 75G. The two I mentioned only grow to around 4" to 6" should you decide to get one anyhow. After the one or two larger fish, for a 29G, you would not be able to have any other larger fish so stick with a couple of schools of smaller 1"+ fish like cardinal tetras, neon tetras, zebra danios, etc. Do you know what kind of tetras you have now? There are hundreds of types of tetras ranging from small 1" to 6" or more so it's important to know the exact species and check them out before you buy in the future. You can find profiles and care sheets for most tropical fish at http://fish. mongabay. com. The profiles will recommend a minimum amount of water volume or tank size, proper foods, suggested companions (SC), preferred water parameters, etc. Also think about getting some live plants... easy and very easy to grow ones are listed in the two links below. They will help with the overall ecology of the tank and help create more territories so the fish feel more comfortable. http://www.plantgee k..net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2 <http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2 <http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2&filter_ by=2> &filter_ by=2> &filter_by=2 http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2 <http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2 <http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2&filter_ by=3> &filter_ by=3> &filter_by=3 You should also get some floating plants like Anacharis so that some of the babies from your guppies might survive.. although you don't have a lot of room for them so maybe that's not such a good idea. LOL But Anacharis is a fast growing plant and because it can be planted or left floating it gives you lots of options. I leave it floating in all of my tanks as it will suck up the nitrogenous compounds from the water column and some of the CO2 from the water and also get CO2 from the air which helps it grow faster. It also gets plenty of light by floating. You could also plant bunches of it in small 2" clay pots and stick them in the back corners and along the back of your tank and this will give you a nice background and help separate the territories for the fish. You have to go with the Very Easy plants since a 29G is so deep, the lighting does not reach the bottom as well so short plants may not get enough light so you might have to use the 2" clay pots for any plants you get just to raise them up a little so they get adequate light. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Angela Bauer Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:52 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish I have a 29 tall for now, and the pleco isn't that big right now. There are 3 tetras, 1 sword, 1 Red Tail, and 7 guppies (for now...lol) I did remove the carbon on the first day of treatment. No live plants. I don't have a QTank because I have no idea what size to get. Mr. Pleco was back on the side of the tank last night, so that's a good sign. He'd been on the bottom for the last 3 days. Thank you so much, and I will def check out the jungle website!!!!! ! ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:54:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish First, did you remove the carbon from your filters? If not, do so immediately and do a 25% PWC and start your treatment over. What size tank? You've got some fish that get pretty big so you should have at least 100G+. If you don't have a really BIG tank, besides the Ick, your fish may have reduced immune systems due to being in an undersized tank or overstocked and the reduced immune system is also causing them to not get well as fast and/or have other issues. I know I'm presuming your tank is not a 100G+ tank and if I'm wrong, I apologize, but I've been answering forum posts for quite a while and this is one of the most common problems and causes of fish disease in the hobby. Your pleco also seems to be suffering from a secondary bacterial infections which is most likely what is causing the cloudy eye (internal bacteria) and fin rot issues (external bacteria). Check with Jungle to see if their antibacterial food is compatible with Ick Guard II and try to get your fish to eat it. You might have to add an antibacterial med to the algae thins or whatever you normally feed your pleco. If the fish won't eat the medicated food, then you might have to go with a compatible antibacterial treatment to the water column. Check with Jungle for compatible treatments and run their answers by us here so we can double check their advice. Here is their contact page... http://www.junglela bs.com/pages/ contact.asp Continue following the directions on the Jungle Ick Guard II, including doing PWC's (partial water changes) and replacing the removed portion of Ick Guard II and keeping the tank well aerated since the higher temps result in a lower O2 level in the water. If you have live plants, do not turn the lights off 24/7 as the plants will help raise the O2 levels during photosynthesis. You can also lower the water level an inch so that the filter return causes more surface agitation and splashing which will help raise the O2 levels and reduce the CO2 levels. Last but not least... this is a lesson to others that you should ALWAYS quarantine new fish for a couple of weeks before adding them to your main display tank.. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Angela Bauer Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 6:52 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish Hello all...this is my first time here, and hopefully you can help me. I had an outbreak of Ick 4 days ago. I lost my black and white spotted catfish, but I figured I would since I couldn't get to the pet store until later that night and he was already really far gone. My red tail shark and pleco have been very listless and hanging out by air stones (I have 4 in there right now while I'm treating the Ick from the catfish) and not eating. I treated for 3 days, and did a 40% water change and raised the temp to about 83. It's an old heater, and I'm nervous about going higher. I also covered my tank to make it dark. Now the red tail is swimming around a bit and poking at the gravel, but my pleco looks bad. Parts of him are pale, and his eyes are cloudy. Fins on him and my tetras look a little chewed up.. However, Mr Pleco was sticking to the side of the tank a few hours after I changed the water, upped the temp, and covered it. I'm using Ick Guard II. I treated today after the water change. I'm very confused...if it wasn't for the catfish looking like he was dropped in salt, I wouldn't be so sure it was ick...but what now??? I want to help my pleco, but I can't stop treating for ick since it's only been 4 days. PLEASE HELP!! Oh, and I know where the ick came from...the red swordtails I recently purchased. Two of those 3 died. Third is fine. Her fins are fine too. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080827-0, 08/27/2008 Tested on: 8/27/2008 1:38:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29439	From: Chris	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

why am I opposed to tap water? Because I don't know what effects declorinators have on the human body. Why do I say that when you don't drink tank water?, you are thinking. Because I will be filtering my tank water through a grow bed to grow vegetables, and what my activated carbon doesn't absorb, my lettuce and what-not will.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29440	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Ohhh OK. I didn't realize this thread was related to the aquaponics setup. I belong to many groups/forums and cannot remember everybody's set-ups. Are you in an area where you could have your own well drilled? That might be most cost efficient in the long run. If not, then you would have to use some kind of "natural" spring water, not distilled water. Your fish and plants/veggies would be adversely affected by distilled water since it does not have the trace elements and minerals that are needed to thrive/survive. You might have to check out the disclosure sheets on several different spring waters before you find one you like. According to some of the news programs, many so-called spring water products are not really from springs but rather local tap water filtered through various filters... which may not be a good thing for your fish/plants depending on what and how much is filtered out of the water. Last... but not least... check with your local water utility to see if they use chlorine or chloramine or something else as a disinfectant. Chlorine will evaporate out of water after 24-48 hours so if you have chlorine, you could simply fill up containers with your tap water and allow it to stand for a couple of days so that the chlorine outgases from the water. Chloramine is much more stable and would take much longer to breakdown and outgas. Other disinfectants used by some utilities include ozone, etc. and I really do not know much about them and how they affect the water for fish/plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water why am I opposed to tap water? Because I don't know what effects declorinators have on the human body. Why do I say that when you don't drink tank water?, you are thinking. Because I will be filtering my tank water through a grow bed to grow vegetables, and what my activated carbon doesn't absorb, my lettuce and what-not will. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080827-0, 08/27/2008 Tested on: 8/27/2008 2:55:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29441	From: Angela Bauer	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick Fish

The Tetras are Gold Pristella Tetras. The RTS finally has the white spots on his tail and fins, but he's seems pretty interested in food. Big change since yesterday. Still haven't heard from Jungle, but I will post as soon as I do. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:38:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish I don't think you need fungus clear. I don't think you've mentioned anything that would be considered one of the fungus diseases. It's not a good thing to mix meds as the original illness and meds are already tough on the fish in the first place. There are some that can be mixed without much negative effect but I just don't know enough about Jungle's products to know. That's why I suggested checking directly with them and then checking back here with their answer. The only thing I would consider adding to your tank right now, as I previously stated, would be an antibacterial med that is compatible with the Ick Guard II. Check with Jungle to see if they have one that is compatible. If you can't get a definite answer, then wait for the Ick Guard II to complete it's directed treatment and then do a series of 25% PWC's and gravel vacuuming, one every few hours, to remove the old medicine and dead Ick remnants. Then run some fresh carbon for a few hours before starting a new medicine treatment, if needed.. Hopefully, as the Ick Guard II continues to kill the Ich parasites, the fishes own immune systems will begin to get stronger and they'll fight off any secondary issues on their own. Maybe someone else will recognize your description of your tetras but I've only owned a couple of tetra species over the years and your description doesn't ring a bell for me. 75G would be a minimum for the pleco so you will still have to do weekly PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance. .. and go for the longer/wider tank rather than the deeper tank as the surface area and bottom area are just as important as the total water volume. Fortunately, common pleco's are slow growers to some degree so hopefully it will not be stunted in your smaller tank. To give you an example, I adopted/rescued a 10G tank a few years ago that had a common pleco, two opaline/blue gouramis, three buenos aires tetras and three zebra danios (both of them had full schools at one time but slowly died off before I rescued the tank). Those fish should have been in a 100G+ sized tank but were kept in the 10G for two years. The pleco was barely 4" long after two years. After quarantining them, I moved him into my 65G tank and split up the other fish into two other tanks. The pleco grew from barely 4" to 10" in just 18 months in my 65G tank and then I had to rehome him since my plans for an even larger tank was changed by Hurricane Katrina (me and all of my fish made it!). I was planning on two 150G tanks.. one for my goldfish and coolwater fish and one for tropical's but my two goldfish have to keep on living in the 65G for now until I can buy a bigger house once prices come back down around here. Anyhow.. my point is that the sooner you can get a larger tank, the better off the pleco will be and less likely it will be permanently stunted. Once you find out what kind of tetras you have, you may need to rethink your plans with them as well. Most tetras prefer to be in schools of 6 or more but depending on your species and due to your limited tank space, you may or may not be able to keep them. As far as the guppies, the RTS and tetras may take care of any future babies once they get over the Ick and treatment. You could also go with all males or females to avoid the over-breeding problems... although the females will likely drop a couple of more batches even after you separate them. You should check out your local http://www.FreeCycl e.org group and look for a 10G tank and set up that you can keep handy for a quarantine/hospital tank for future purposes. I haven't been on my local FreeCycle in a while but I use to see smaller tanks on there all the time... and even larger ones occasionally. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Angela Bauer Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish You are the most awesome person, thanks!! Could I use the fungus clear by Jungle at the same time? Or hold off? As for the baby guppies...it wouldn't bother me if they didn't make it...I want to get rid of them, but don't have the heart to kill them and no one wants any...especially after this bout of ick. And they keep having more babies!! I really want to keep Mr Pleco, so I'm seriously looking at the 75 gal tank for him. The tetras are a clear/yellow with some red and white on the fins. I can't for the life of me remember what they're called right now. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 4:43:14 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish The downside of a tall tank is that it does not have as much surface area or bottom area and many fish like to have their own territories so with limited bottom space, that becomes a stressor for the fish that wants it's own space and for the fish around it that are chased away all the time. The Red Tailed Shark is a very territorial fish and can be very aggressive to other RTS and other fish that look like it so avoid any other fish that look like the RTS. They are also bottom dwellers like the pleco so I'm sure it chases the pleco away on a regular basis which is a stressor to the pleco and when fish get stressed, their immune systems falter and they are more likely to get sick. Read this profile/care sheet on the RTS. http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Epalzeorhynchus_ bicolor.html What you should do after the pleco gets well is trade him in for a smaller dwarf species of plecos like a clown pleco or bristle nosed pleco or NOT get a pleco at all so you don't have a possible issue with the RTS. The common plecos grow to 18"+ and need at least 75G. The two I mentioned only grow to around 4" to 6" should you decide to get one anyhow. After the one or two larger fish, for a 29G, you would not be able to have any other larger fish so stick with a couple of schools of smaller 1"+ fish like cardinal tetras, neon tetras, zebra danios, etc. Do you know what kind of tetras you have now? There are hundreds of types of tetras ranging from small 1" to 6" or more so it's important to know the exact species and check them out before you buy in the future. You can find profiles and care sheets for most tropical fish at http://fish. mongabay. com. The profiles will recommend a minimum amount of water volume or tank size, proper foods, suggested companions (SC), preferred water parameters, etc. Also think about getting some live plants... easy and very easy to grow ones are listed in the two links below. They will help with the overall ecology of the tank and help create more territories so the fish feel more comfortable. http://www.plantgee k..net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2 <http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2 <http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2&filter_ by=2> &filter_ by=2> &filter_by=2 http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2 <http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2 <http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _list.php? category= 2&filter_ by=3> &filter_ by=3> &filter_by=3 You should also get some floating plants like Anacharis so that some of the babies from your guppies might survive.. although you don't have a lot of room for them so maybe that's not such a good idea. LOL But Anacharis is a fast growing plant and because it can be planted or left floating it gives you lots of options.. I leave it floating in all of my tanks as it will suck up the nitrogenous compounds from the water column and some of the CO2 from the water and also get CO2 from the air which helps it grow faster. It also gets plenty of light by floating. You could also plant bunches of it in small 2" clay pots and stick them in the back corners and along the back of your tank and this will give you a nice background and help separate the territories for the fish. You have to go with the Very Easy plants since a 29G is so deep, the lighting does not reach the bottom as well so short plants may not get enough light so you might have to use the 2" clay pots for any plants you get just to raise them up a little so they get adequate light. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Angela Bauer Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:52 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish I have a 29 tall for now, and the pleco isn't that big right now. There are 3 tetras, 1 sword, 1 Red Tail, and 7 guppies (for now...lol) I did remove the carbon on the first day of treatment. No live plants. I don't have a QTank because I have no idea what size to get. Mr. Pleco was back on the side of the tank last night, so that's a good sign. He'd been on the bottom for the last 3 days. Thank you so much, and I will def check out the jungle website!!!!! ! ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:54:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish First, did you remove the carbon from your filters? If not, do so immediately and do a 25% PWC and start your treatment over. What size tank? You've got some fish that get pretty big so you should have at least 100G+. If you don't have a really BIG tank, besides the Ick, your fish may have reduced immune systems due to being in an undersized tank or overstocked and the reduced immune system is also causing them to not get well as fast and/or have other issues. I know I'm presuming your tank is not a 100G+ tank and if I'm wrong, I apologize, but I've been answering forum posts for quite a while and this is one of the most common problems and causes of fish disease in the hobby. Your pleco also seems to be suffering from a secondary bacterial infections which is most likely what is causing the cloudy eye (internal bacteria) and fin rot issues (external bacteria). Check with Jungle to see if their antibacterial food is compatible with Ick Guard II and try to get your fish to eat it. You might have to add an antibacterial med to the algae thins or whatever you normally feed your pleco. If the fish won't eat the medicated food, then you might have to go with a compatible antibacterial treatment to the water column. Check with Jungle for compatible treatments and run their answers by us here so we can double check their advice. Here is their contact page... http://www.junglela bs.com/pages/ contact.asp Continue following the directions on the Jungle Ick Guard II, including doing PWC's (partial water changes) and replacing the removed portion of Ick Guard II and keeping the tank well aerated since the higher temps result in a lower O2 level in the water. If you have live plants, do not turn the lights off 24/7 as the plants will help raise the O2 levels during photosynthesis. You can also lower the water level an inch so that the filter return causes more surface agitation and splashing which will help raise the O2 levels and reduce the CO2 levels. Last but not least... this is a lesson to others that you should ALWAYS quarantine new fish for a couple of weeks before adding them to your main display tank.. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Angela Bauer Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 6:52 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick Fish Hello all...this is my first time here, and hopefully you can help me. I had an outbreak of Ick 4 days ago. I lost my black and white spotted catfish, but I figured I would since I couldn't get to the pet store until later that night and he was already really far gone. My red tail shark and pleco have been very listless and hanging out by air stones (I have 4 in there right now while I'm treating the Ick from the catfish) and not eating. I treated for 3 days, and did a 40% water change and raised the temp to about 83. It's an old heater, and I'm nervous about going higher. I also covered my tank to make it dark. Now the red tail is swimming around a bit and poking at the gravel, but my pleco looks bad. Parts of him are pale, and his eyes are cloudy. Fins on him and my tetras look a little chewed up.. However, Mr Pleco was sticking to the side of the tank a few hours after I changed the water, upped the temp, and covered it. I'm using Ick Guard II. I treated today after the water change. I'm very confused...if it wasn't for the catfish looking like he was dropped in salt, I wouldn't be so sure it was ick...but what now??? I want to help my pleco, but I can't stop treating for ick since it's only been 4 days. PLEASE HELP!! Oh, and I know where the ick came from...the red swordtails I recently purchased. Two of those 3 died.. Third is fine. Her fins are fine too. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080827-0, 08/27/2008 Tested on: 8/27/2008 1:38:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29442	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

So in other words, Chris, you don't drink it, and if you don't drink it, it doesn't go in the fish tank. To be sure, for anyone who's interested (which probably isn't some of the older guys here), tap water does routinely contain alot of nasties. I drink it, but I pardon anyone who doesn't. Look out, Chris, they eat Commies here. A Commie is a Democrat. Running... LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water why am I opposed to tap water? Because I don't know what effects declorinators have on the human body. Why do I say that when you don't drink tank water?, you are thinking. Because I will be filtering my tank water through a grow bed to grow vegetables, and what my activated carbon doesn't absorb, my lettuce and what-not will.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29443	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

I don't eat commies... I wouldn't want to pollute my body with their nasties. The best thing to do with commies is to NUKE them! Of course, they survived Chernobyl so maybe even nuking them wouldn't be enough! Them dang commies are worse than cockroaches! :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 4:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water So in other words, Chris, you don't drink it, and if you don't drink it, it doesn't go in the fish tank. To be sure, for anyone who's interested (which probably isn't some of the older guys here), tap water does routinely contain alot of nasties. I drink it, but I pardon anyone who doesn't. Look out, Chris, they eat Commies here. A Commie is a Democrat. Running... LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water why am I opposed to tap water? Because I don't know what effects declorinators have on the human body. Why do I say that when you don't drink tank water?, you are thinking. Because I will be filtering my tank water through a grow bed to grow vegetables, and what my activated carbon doesn't absorb, my lettuce and what-not will. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080827-0, 08/27/2008 Tested on: 8/27/2008 5:17:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29444	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

I felt the same way when I started with fish and kept them in Deer Park spring water - dunno about chlorine content, but I never used a declorinator and they did just fine. Since getting my 10G tank though, I switched to tap water because it was cost prohibitive. Now that I have well water, I'm back to no dechlorinator. -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > So in other words, Chris, you don't drink it, and if you don't drink it, it > doesn't go in the fish tank. > > To be sure, for anyone who's interested (which probably isn't some of the > older guys here), tap water does routinely contain alot of nasties. I > drink > it, but I pardon anyone who doesn't. > > Look out, Chris, they eat Commies here. A Commie is a Democrat. > Running... LOL! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29445	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling

Yes, to maintain the pH and other water parameters and replace water lost to evaporation. I do it after testing and prior to adding the next dose every two weeks. Doesn't hurt the bacteria, because I take the water from the water column and I am not vacuuming the gravel--no need to do that at this stage. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling You do partial water changes while doing fishless cycling? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:52 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling Partial water changes should be a part of any cycling routine. Then one need not worry about the points you raise here. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling \\Steve//, Do you not do a large 90% water change at the end of fishless cycling before adding fish? At the end of a fishless cycle, the KH is often getting very low due to the nitrifying bacteria utilizing it during the 2-6 week process. I've always done a large 90%+ water change with dechlored water just to get the GH and KH levels back up to where it would normally be. In fact... if someone is fishless cycling and they have soft water or low KH water, the fishless cycle will sometimes stall due to too low of KH levels for the bacteria to continue growing. All that is needed at that point is a PWC to get things going again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling The best, and also easiest way, to cycle a tank without fish is to use ammonia. Go down to the grocery store and find yourself some plain ammonia, no detergent or scents added, just plain ammonia. Get yourself over to the LFS and get yourself a master kit which usually includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits. For suggestions, see another thread going on here on the various test kits (Water Test Kits). When you go home, add enough of the ammonia to your tank to bring the reading up to 5 ppm. Measure the ammonia level each day, and add enough to bring it back to 5 ppm. Whet h ammonia gets to 0 ppm each day, start measuring your nitrites, Keep adding the ammonia each day until both ammonia and nitrites measure 0 ppm at the end of each 24 hour period. When this happens, add fish, and stop adding ammonia. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycling When I first poured water into my tank I decided to let the tank cycle before I added fish. My goal was to add flakes to the water and let the decomposition of the flakes generate the ammonia I need to get bacteria going. I figured that once I've started to see algae in the water I would be on the right track. 2 weeks later, there isn't any algae and I have an aquarium light shinning 24/7. My next thought was to put snails into the tank to eat up the algae. They would reproduce and eventually clean the tank walls for me and keep the algae under control. I know that there is a lot of problems with snails, but I don't see how sails can reproduce more than their food supply and would eventually die off from starvation. At the least I would have some interesting decorations to add to the gravel when I finally dump it in I bought a 5-in-1 quick dip test strip by Jungle (unfortunately it doesn't test for ammonia) and a culture called Cycle by nutrafin to add bacteria to the water. I tested a few days ago and haven't seen any significant change. My Nitrite is .5 but my nitrate is reading zero. I've tried getting a local pet shop to give me a sample of their water so I could add a fresh culture, but the guy wouldn't.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29446	From: james	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself

Hi all, my name is James Jeremiah and like Steve said...there are web- sites out there that do not help the beginner at all. Oh, well said Steve...you have done great justice by giving such info/ answers to Chris' questions. Well, I would like to contribute to this message by stating that there are books in any library which can assist beginners in setting up and maintaining an aquarium. Also, here are some link(s) that Chris might find useful if he's into breeding Angel fish. www.aquaworldnet.net/wfangelfish/index.cgi?index Best of luck with this Chris. "James" --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I am a big fan of books. Dora mentioned a book to you, and the other > day, I happened to receive a mail from one of the people I know, who, > coincidently, has written a few books for beginners. Being the shameless > person that I am, I asked him for the titles, as I had forgotten them. > Probably after he laughed his fool head off, he was kind enough to reply > with the titles of 3 books he has authored. > > _The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums_ > _The Complete Idiot's Guide to Saltwater Aquariums_ > _The Pocket Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums_ > > None of them are in print any longer, but you should be able to find > them used, on Amazon, or, possibly at your local used book dealer. > > An excellent reference book is the _Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1_. > There are short sections on setting up, and maintaining an aquarium, as > well as a section on plants. However, the majority of the book is > pictures of fish, along with short descriptions of the fish. When you > read the book, hold it in an upright position, so you do not drool on > the pages. You'll want to have this book around for a long time. The > information in this book is fairly accurate. > > The problem with web sites is that there are a lot of web sites that are > pure junk out there, and there is no real control to show which are the > bad ones, other than you recognizing that what is being said is not > true, very difficult for a novice. One place that is pretty good is the > Krib (http://www.thekrib.com). The problem with The Krib is that it > appears not to be actively maintained now. The information up there, > however, is top rate. Do a Google on Badman's or Badman, or a variation > thereof, to find another good site. The URL is somewhere in my > bookmarks, and I am too lazy to search through a nearly 400K bookmark > file to find it right now. > > Then, there are lists, like this one, where it is tough to pass along > bad information without being challenged. Feel free to ask any dumb, or, > for that matter, intelligent questions you may have. > > BTW, if anyone has read this far, because they are curious as to who the > author is of those "Idiot" books, it is one Mike Wickham. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Introducing myself > > Hello everyone! I'm newbie looking to learn as much as I can about > fish keeping. I've had tanks before in the past (when I was a child), > but wasn't successful at them. I want to do it right and would > appreciate any websites that could help me. I would really like > websites that go beyond just the basics and actually teach the > technical stuff. Your help would be appreciated! :) > > Thanks in advance! > Chris >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29447	From: William J. Scott	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Hey, Let's keep the politics off the list. I could say the same about the other party. A fish forum is not the place to bring up religon OR politics. My 2 cents worth. Bill -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 08/27/08 14:46:31 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water So in other words, Chris, you don't drink it, and if you don't drink it, it doesn't go in the fish tank. To be sure, for anyone who's interested (which probably isn't some of the older guys here), tap water does routinely contain alot of nasties. I drink it, but I pardon anyone who doesn't. Look out, Chris, they eat Commies here. A Commie is a Democrat. Running... LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water why am I opposed to tap water? Because I don't know what effects declorinators have on the human body. Why do I say that when you don't drink tank water?, you are thinking. Because I will be filtering my tank water through a grow bed to grow vegetables, and what my activated carbon doesn't absorb, my lettuce and what-not will. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Introducing myself

Be careful going to the aquaworldnet.net link in the previous reply. All of the links on that page go to some other search portal URL's that have nothing to do with fish keeping so all of the links on that page are misleading and/or spoofs. If you've already visited the site and any of the links and you are not confident in your computer's security, your computer could have been hit with some type of drive-by malware. None of my own computer's security measures alerted on the website but it could be that my dual-layered firewall (hardware and software) blocked any malware before it got to my computer. It would be well-advised to update your antivirus and antispyware software definitions and run complete scans of your computers in safe-mode. At one time, the website may have been a fully legitimate website but it is not any longer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of james Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Introducing myself Hi all, my name is James Jeremiah and like Steve said...there are web- sites out there that do not help the beginner at all. Oh, well said Steve...you have done great justice by giving such info/ answers to Chris' questions. Well, I would like to contribute to this message by stating that there are books in any library which can assist beginners in setting up and maintaining an aquarium. Also, here are some link(s) that Chris might find useful if he's into breeding Angel fish. www.aquaworldnet.net/wfangelfish/index.cgi?index Best of luck with this Chris. "James" --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I am a big fan of books. Dora mentioned a book to you, and the other > day, I happened to receive a mail from one of the people I know, who, > coincidently, has written a few books for beginners. Being the > shameless person that I am, I asked him for the titles, as I had forgotten them. > Probably after he laughed his fool head off, he was kind enough to > reply with the titles of 3 books he has authored. > > _The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums_ _The Complete > Idiot's Guide to Saltwater Aquariums_ _The Pocket Idiot's Guide to > Freshwater Aquariums_ > > None of them are in print any longer, but you should be able to find > them used, on Amazon, or, possibly at your local used book dealer. > > An excellent reference book is the _Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1_. > There are short sections on setting up, and maintaining an aquarium, > as well as a section on plants. However, the majority of the book is > pictures of fish, along with short descriptions of the fish. When you > read the book, hold it in an upright position, so you do not drool on > the pages. You'll want to have this book around for a long time. The > information in this book is fairly accurate. > > The problem with web sites is that there are a lot of web sites that > are pure junk out there, and there is no real control to show which > are the bad ones, other than you recognizing that what is being said > is not true, very difficult for a novice. One place that is pretty > good is the Krib (http://www.thekrib.com <http://www.thekrib.com> ). > The problem with The Krib is that it appears not to be actively > maintained now. The information up there, however, is top rate. Do a > Google on Badman's or Badman, or a variation thereof, to find another > good site. The URL is somewhere in my bookmarks, and I am too lazy to > search through a nearly 400K bookmark file to find it right now. > > Then, there are lists, like this one, where it is tough to pass along > bad information without being challenged. Feel free to ask any dumb, > or, for that matter, intelligent questions you may have. > > BTW, if anyone has read this far, because they are curious as to who > the author is of those "Idiot" books, it is one Mike Wickham. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Introducing myself > > Hello everyone! I'm newbie looking to learn as much as I can about > fish keeping. I've had tanks before in the past (when I was a child), > but wasn't successful at them. I want to do it right and would > appreciate any websites that could help me. I would really like > websites that go beyond just the basics and actually teach the > technical stuff. Your help would be appreciated! :) > > Thanks in advance! > Chris > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080827-0, 08/27/2008 Tested on: 8/27/2008 8:41:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29449	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/27/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Bill Scott makes an excellent point. Regardless of which party is brought up, it DOES NOT BELONG ON THIS FORUM. I don't know which moderator allowed this post to get through, but I would certainly not have done so if I had seen it first. I had warned about such posts just recently. The next time there is such an off-topic remark made about politics, I will personally delete the whole message. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29450	From: rsteph49	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Looking for suggestions on a new fish.

First the tank specs: I've got a 25 gallon tank (small for saltwater, but it's my starter tank, and for now still can't affort to upgrade); I've got about 22 lbs. live rock, crushed coral base, with a filter and protein skimmer in it. Currently I've got 2 turbo snails, 2 small blue legged hermit crabs, 1 skunk cleaner shrimp, 1 percula clown fish, 1 flame firefish (goby). I originally had 2 firefish but one recently passed away. I'm looking to get another fish to replace it, and trying to debate if I should just get another flame firefish, or maybe some other type of fish. Obviously given my tank size I need to keep it as a smaller breed of fish - something that can be comfortable in a smaller tank. As of right now my fire fish tends to stick near or under the rock in the middle of the tank, and my clown sticks to the bank of the tank swimming near the bottom during the day, and near the top at night when the lights go out (it seems to like to sleep between the glass and the tube for my filter). Ideally I'd like to find a neat fish, that can handle a 25 gallon tank, something colorful, and preferable something that will tend to swim in all the open space in the middle of my tank. Does anyone have any suggestions for me of something that will get along with my other stuff? I really want a puffer fish - but I have to wait till I get a bigger tank for that. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29451	From: Alina	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: New member: Alina in Florida

Hi Glad to have found the group. I am an aquarium newbie. Started a freshwater (tropical) aquarium about two weeks ago. Still cycling the tank before (I hope) the fun begins. It's a 40-gal tank, and right now all I have are two tetras to get things going. So far, it's all working according to plan to my great surprise. I have a couple of questions that I can't seem to get simple answers to from books and websites: 1. Water changes -- the advice runs the spectrum -- Do it once a week, 50%; do it once a month 10%. So I guess I should do something in the middle. I'm thinking twice a month with perhaps 20%? Advice about what's best is really welcome. And I notice some folks change the water directly from the faucet-- don't I need to condition the new water? 2. Cleaning the tank: What vaccumn system is best (and easiest). My tank is nowhere near a sink so I guess I'll have to use buckets. How will I know the gravel is cleaned enough? How do I make sure all the rocks and things aren't disturbed? And I assume the fish stay in the tank while I do this? See, I warned you I was new at this! If I can find this info on a good website, please send me the link. Thanks Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29452	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: New member: Alina in Florida

It's good to get in the habit of doing weekly PWC's and the amount depends on the bioload of the tank. Right now, with only two smaller fish in a 40G, 10% PWC's would be fine but as you increase the bioload, then you need to increase the amount/size of your PWC's. 25% PWC's, weekly, is usually an amount needed for a fully stocked tank. You should also vacuum your gravel and do filter maintenance on a regular basis also. DO NOT throw away your filter cartridges or media, even though the instructions may tell you to. That is just the filter companies way of making money. It's not needed and in many cases, it's bad for your tank and fish as the good nitrifying bacteria (the nitrogen cycle) lives mostly in your filter media so if you throw it away, you would put your tank back into a mini-cycle each time and the ammonia/nitrite spikes are not good for your fish. I use the Python Water Change System to vacuum my gravel, siphon the water and then refill my tank, directly from the tap. I just add my dechlor into the tank as I start the refill process and all is fine since the dechlors work instantly. The main thing is to make sure the temp is within 1-2F so you don't change the temp too much, too fast in the tank. Yes, the fish stay in the tank but with the Python or any other gravel siphon, be ready to turn off the valve or pinch the hose if a fish goes into the siphon tube. Most of the time, the stay clear but hungry fish will hang around the tube hoping for some stirred up scraps. All you need is a simple dechlor product that treats for chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals. You DON'T need all the slime-this and stress-that type chemicals or any kind of pH adjusting chemicals as they just add unnecessary chemicals to your tank. You should also get a decent Master Test Kit with at least pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests... GH and KH are also helpful but not mandatory. While you are "Cycling With Fish" (article on my A to Z page), you should be testing your water on a daily basis and be prepared to do 25% PWC's as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1.0ppm. You don't want them at zero yet as the good nitrifying bacteria need ammonia and then nitrites to feed off of to grow their colonies in your filter, gravel, etc., but you don't want the ammonia/nitrite going above 1.0ppm as that is much more dangerous to your fish. Even lower levels of ammonia can be toxic if you have a higher pH so give us your test results so we can further instruct you. Go to my blog and click on the A to Z of Fish Keeping page. Near the top of that page are two links to free online fish keeping tutorials from very well establish websites that rarely have bad info on them. I try to vet any and all websites before I link to them on my blog and I might sometimes have a link with a disclaimer about the site if it only has some good info. Read over the rest of the A to Z page and come back here with any questions you may have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New member: Alina in Florida Hi Glad to have found the group. I am an aquarium newbie. Started a freshwater (tropical) aquarium about two weeks ago. Still cycling the tank before (I hope) the fun begins. It's a 40-gal tank, and right now all I have are two tetras to get things going. So far, it's all working according to plan to my great surprise. I have a couple of questions that I can't seem to get simple answers to from books and websites: 1. Water changes -- the advice runs the spectrum -- Do it once a week, 50%; do it once a month 10%. So I guess I should do something in the middle. I'm thinking twice a month with perhaps 20%? Advice about what's best is really welcome. And I notice some folks change the water directly from the faucet-- don't I need to condition the new water? 2. Cleaning the tank: What vaccumn system is best (and easiest). My tank is nowhere near a sink so I guess I'll have to use buckets. How will I know the gravel is cleaned enough? How do I make sure all the rocks and things aren't disturbed? And I assume the fish stay in the tank while I do this? See, I warned you I was new at this! If I can find this info on a good website, please send me the link. Thanks Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080828-0, 08/28/2008 Tested on: 8/28/2008 1:22:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29453	From: joe t	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

I must agree with Bill Scott and Ray.    Whether these comments are made as joke or in earnest they have an irritating aura about them that start into something that eventually gets too big to handle with boring, nonsensical arguments flying back and forth.  All to no avail and totally off subject.  There are PLENTY of other sites where you are invited to voice your opinion politically.  Here, let's stick to what this site is all about: Aquariums, ponds, FISH. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29454	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: goldfish

I have a 2" "feeder" Goldfish in a 55 gallon tank. It has no gravel in it and 3 fake plants. That way its very easy to clean his waste. Its not heated and I am running 2 Penguin 350 HOBs. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@...> wrote: > > does any body here have gold fish? > how galloons do u think per fish ? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29455	From: Mark Berman	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: New to group

Hi Group, My first post, intro. and first question I have a natural fish pond. I do not use filters or pumps. A natural spring feeds into the pond and then drains out the other side. I have a bunch of oxygenator and filtering types of plants. Pond is about 1500 gallons, about 15 feet in diameter - somewhat oval. We have about 30 fish - 2 to 4 inches, 6 Koi, 4 comet, and about 20 regular goldfish. Pond was created in mid June - and the fish are thriving, so far - we have not yet experienced winter. Water level is about 20 inches deep (I am concerned it may not be deep enough for winter) Question: Can anyone write about keeping a pond more clear and less cloudy that is not running through a pump/filter system? thank you Mark near Phildelphia, PA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29456	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to group

Do you know what kind of flow rate you are getting through the pond? Is the "natural spring" an above ground spring or underground spring? Normally, a pond of your size would be consider very heavily stocked with the number of fish you have but if you have a constant inflow of clean water, then that should flush out most of the waste, hormones, etc. I realize your fish are still juveniles but Koi reach around 3' as full grown adults (10 years) and should have at least 500G++ each by that point. The goldfish should have around 75G+ each, so your total pond volume should be well over 5,000 gallons but once again, if your flow rate is turning over the pond on a daily basis, that would go a long way in compensating for your smaller sized pond. Further, if the flow rate is high enough, you shouldn't have too much to worry about the pond freezing or even getting too cold. What is the temp of the water from the "natural spring" year-round? Does it freeze up during the winter or just some freezing on the surface? Your pond should not have a cloudy problem unless the incoming water is not clear or is somehow agitating the ground as it flows into your pond... once again, this depends on the flow rate. If your flow rate is replacing the water on a daily basis (1,500G per day), you should not have any problems. If it's only replacing 50G a day, then you will either have to increase the flow rate or add on some filtration. I think a lot of the answers really depends on the flow rate and turnover of fresh water through the pond. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Berman Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to group Hi Group, My first post, intro. and first question I have a natural fish pond. I do not use filters or pumps. A natural spring feeds into the pond and then drains out the other side. I have a bunch of oxygenator and filtering types of plants. Pond is about 1500 gallons, about 15 feet in diameter - somewhat oval. We have about 30 fish - 2 to 4 inches, 6 Koi, 4 comet, and about 20 regular goldfish. Pond was created in mid June - and the fish are thriving, so far - we have not yet experienced winter. Water level is about 20 inches deep (I am concerned it may not be deep enough for winter) Question: Can anyone write about keeping a pond more clear and less cloudy that is not running through a pump/filter system? thank you Mark near Phildelphia, PA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080828-0, 08/28/2008 Tested on: 8/28/2008 10:13:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29457	From: Chris	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

The thing is it really wasn't meant to be political. Actual politics was a side comment. I probably would have made the same comment but differntly and would have been more obvious. What you are missing is that the comments about commies was really a reference to the movie Dr Strange Love. Or how I learned to love the nuclear bomb. The movie was a movie durring the cold war from a comedic view point The movie wasn't bashing the Russians either. The story was about a Army Base Commander that went crazy and decided to send a fleet of bombers carrying nukes to bomb russia and start a nuclear war. Why? Because he only drinks rain water and grain alcohol, because floridation is a commie plot to "contaminate our precious bodily fluids" I'm asking questions about distilled water because I don't want to eat foods that have been grown in declorinated water. Do you see the connection? I really hope that the two offenders aren't the only people here that aren't so serious about fish that they have no sense of humor.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29458	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to group

Mark, Does the pond have a liner, or is it an earthen bottom. If the latter, this could be causing your cloudiness, if the cloudiness is a muddy type of cloudiness. One thing I worry about is where the water goes after it goes out of your pond. If it goes on as a natural waterway, you have a problem. You are taking that chance of introducing pathogens which are not endemic to your area into this particular watershed, as well as possibly contributing escapees to it as well. Certain governmental units take a dim view of such activities. Wintering your fish over in the pond is rather interesting. Normally, I would say that your pond is not deep enough to winter over your fish. However, the pond is spring fed. The spring should be giving you a fairly stable temperature year round, if it is truly a spring. This may moderate the pond's water during the colder months so that it never truly freezes over. If it is not, then the pond may freeze over, without some help from a heater, and then many of your fish may not survive the winter. As you can see, most of this is conjecture, since you really do not provide us with much information where we can make solid statements. Lenny has asked you some questions about the spring, and others to get more information. Cloudiness has many causes, and water parameters can have an effect here as well. You made no statements about the water quality other than it being cloudy, not even describing the type of cloudiness. The minimum we should know about your water would be pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels. The more information you can provide, the better the answers will be. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Berman Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to group Hi Group, My first post, intro. and first question I have a natural fish pond. I do not use filters or pumps. A natural spring feeds into the pond and then drains out the other side. I have a bunch of oxygenator and filtering types of plants. Pond is about 1500 gallons, about 15 feet in diameter - somewhat oval. We have about 30 fish - 2 to 4 inches, 6 Koi, 4 comet, and about 20 regular goldfish. Pond was created in mid June - and the fish are thriving, so far - we have not yet experienced winter. Water level is about 20 inches deep (I am concerned it may not be deep enough for winter) Question: Can anyone write about keeping a pond more clear and less cloudy that is not running through a pump/filter system? thank you Mark near Phildelphia, PA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29459	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Chris, I don't think people were complaining about you so much as the original poster who included the "commies" comment in their reply... which then prompted me, you and others to reply to their "commies" comment. I'm still curious though to your aversion to dechlorinators... do you mind eating foods that are grown with chlorine/chloramine treated water... like people who have gardens in their back yards and water them with their tap water when they don't get enough rain? I'm not sure how a dechlor product would be all that harmful and are probably less harmful than the things found naturally in most of the worlds waterways. Nearly all major dechlor products are based on sodium thiosulfate at such a small dosage and then it only takes around 1 drop per gallon for the already highly diluted sodium thiosulfate to break down the chlorine or chloramine. I would suspect that in such micro amounts, sodium thiosulfate is no more harmful than that other commonly used household chemical that we ingest on a daily basis, sodium chloride (NaCl aka common table salt), and then if you add an extra Oxygen molecule to salt, you end up with another common household chemical, sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl aka Bleach), which gets us right back to the chlorine (Cl) or chloramine (NH2Cl) in most tap water sources which are also likely to include that other common household chemical that we drink on a daily basis, sodium fluoride (included in most tap waters to help prevent tooth decay). I guess my point is that there are various "sodium" based chemicals in nearly everything we eat, drink and use on a daily basis... from tap water to toothpaste to hair shampoo to soap to... on and on and on. Check out the MSDS sheets on every product in your home and you'll see the list of "sodiums" in them. So, in conclusion, is it better to ingest chlorine/chloramine and sodium fluoride in untreated water... or sodium thiosulfate in dechlored water? I don't know. Personally, I'd be more grossed out about eating food that I know was grown in water full of my fishes poop and pee. What next, dessert Poop-sicles made with frozen fish water and the entire meal washed down with a nice big glass of Iced Pee? LOL (You see, now, I have a sense of humor!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water The thing is it really wasn't meant to be political. Actual politics was a side comment. I probably would have made the same comment but differntly and would have been more obvious. What you are missing is that the comments about commies was really a reference to the movie Dr Strange Love. Or how I learned to love the nuclear bomb. The movie was a movie durring the cold war from a comedic view point The movie wasn't bashing the Russians either. The story was about a Army Base Commander that went crazy and decided to send a fleet of bombers carrying nukes to bomb russia and start a nuclear war. Why? Because he only drinks rain water and grain alcohol, because floridation is a commie plot to "contaminate our precious bodily fluids" I'm asking questions about distilled water because I don't want to eat foods that have been grown in declorinated water. Do you see the connection? I really hope that the two offenders aren't the only people here that aren't so serious about fish that they have no sense of humor. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080828-0, 08/28/2008 Tested on: 8/28/2008 11:04:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29460	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to group

Steve, if he hasn't got sick fish, aren't his fish probably healthier than wild fish? From the sites on fish wildlife, and web pages on some fish diseases that are common among wild fish as well as aquarium fish, I gather that wild fish are regular finned parasite coops. If it's just a back yard fish pond, then unless there are actual laws against it I wouldn't worry about it. Near me is a carefully constructed bird park around a water collection/ natural treatment pond, and there is a little flock of koi in it. I really don't think koi are a native fish; particularly not bright orange and white ones. (G) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:55 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New to group Mark, Does the pond have a liner, or is it an earthen bottom. If the latter, this could be causing your cloudiness, if the cloudiness is a muddy type of cloudiness. One thing I worry about is where the water goes after it goes out of your pond. If it goes on as a natural waterway, you have a problem. You are taking that chance of introducing pathogens which are not endemic to your area into this particular watershed, as well as possibly contributing escapees to it as well. Certain governmental units take a dim view of such activities.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29461	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Strangelove? Commies? Fish lovers are very odd people. I'll keep in mind that we don't mention politics on the list. (G) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:04 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water The thing is it really wasn't meant to be political. Actual politics was a side comment. I probably would have made the same comment but differntly and would have been more obvious. What you are missing is that the comments about commies was really a reference to the movie Dr Strange Love. Or how I learned to love the nuclear bomb. The movie was a movie durring the cold war from a comedic view point The movie wasn't bashing the Russians either. The story was about a Army Base Commander that went crazy and decided to

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29462	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

I seriously doubt that drinking water treated with thiosulfate is for the sulfite sensitive. In fact, the stuff gets me just sitting next to it. But it doesn't seem to bother the fish. And I'm talking about little tetras. Not great big goldfish and koi. Doesn't bother the lawn, either; in fact, the lawn is doing much better than it usually does in the summer. And my housemate has seldom watered it once he realized where the water from my aquarium is going. It is necessary to use far more than one drop per gallon to get the chloramine and ammonia out of the water here. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water Chris, I'm still curious though to your aversion to dechlorinators... do you mind eating foods that are grown with chlorine/chloramine treated water... like people who have gardens in their back yards and water them with their tap water when they don't get enough rain? I'm not sure how a dechlor product would be all that harmful and are probably less harmful than the things found naturally in most of the worlds waterways. Nearly all major dechlor products are based on sodium thiosulfate at such a small dosage and then it only takes around 1 drop per gallon for the already highly diluted sodium thiosulfate to break down the chlorine or chloramine. I would suspect that in such micro amounts, sodium thiosulfate is no more harmful than that other commonly used household chemical that we ingest on a daily basis, sodium chloride (NaCl aka common table salt), and then if you add an

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29463	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to group

First, one does not have to be ill, or showing signs of illness to be a carrier of pathogens. Does Typhoid Mary ring a bell? Captive fish can be healthier than wild fish, simply because they are taken care of rather than having to fend for themselves. Captive fish may carry a pathogen that endemic fish have no defense against. That pathogen can run rampant through a native population, perhaps decimating it before it can be stopped. The water you describe sounds as though it may be part of a closed system. If it is, no harm, no foul. If it is not, there may be protections in place to prevent the spread of the fish and/or pathogens carried by the fish and the escape of the fish that may not be obvious to the visitors to the pond. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to group Steve, if he hasn't got sick fish, aren't his fish probably healthier than wild fish? From the sites on fish wildlife, and web pages on some fish diseases that are common among wild fish as well as aquarium fish, I gather that wild fish are regular finned parasite coops. If it's just a back yard fish pond, then unless there are actual laws against it I wouldn't worry about it. Near me is a carefully constructed bird park around a water collection/ natural treatment pond, and there is a little flock of koi in it. I really don't think koi are a native fish; particularly not bright orange and white ones. (G) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:55 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New to group Mark, Does the pond have a liner, or is it an earthen bottom. If the latter, this could be causing your cloudiness, if the cloudiness is a muddy type of cloudiness. One thing I worry about is where the water goes after it goes out of your pond. If it goes on as a natural waterway, you have a problem. You are taking that chance of introducing pathogens which are not endemic to your area into this particular watershed, as well as possibly contributing escapees to it as well. Certain governmental units take a dim view of such activities.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29464	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Not if you are using a good and basic dechlor product. API's and TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator use 1ml per 10G which is about one drop per gallon. If you are using one of the expensive products that dechlor and supposedly does the stress-this and slime-that treatments also, then I'm sure it would take much more than 1ml per gallon. Those products are not needed for everyday fish keeping. They may or may not be helpful when shipping fish but they aren't needed in our regular tanks. Plain and simple dechlor products do not "get the ammonia" out of the water (nor the chlorine)... they breakdown chlorine and/or chloramine into less dangerous and/or non-toxic chemicals that do not harm the fish. The natural nitrogen cycle of an established fish tank easily takes care of the slight amount of ammonia (0.5ppm or less) that is released when the chloramine is broken down. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water I seriously doubt that drinking water treated with thiosulfate is for the sulfite sensitive. In fact, the stuff gets me just sitting next to it. But it doesn't seem to bother the fish. And I'm talking about little tetras. Not great big goldfish and koi. Doesn't bother the lawn, either; in fact, the lawn is doing much better than it usually does in the summer. And my housemate has seldom watered it once he realized where the water from my aquarium is going. It is necessary to use far more than one drop per gallon to get the chloramine and ammonia out of the water here. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water Chris, I'm still curious though to your aversion to dechlorinators... do you mind eating foods that are grown with chlorine/chloramine treated water... like people who have gardens in their back yards and water them with their tap water when they don't get enough rain? I'm not sure how a dechlor product would be all that harmful and are probably less harmful than the things found naturally in most of the worlds waterways. Nearly all major dechlor products are based on sodium thiosulfate at such a small dosage and then it only takes around 1 drop per gallon for the already highly diluted sodium thiosulfate to break down the chlorine or chloramine. I would suspect that in such micro amounts, sodium thiosulfate is no more harmful than that other commonly used household chemical that we ingest on a daily basis, sodium chloride (NaCl aka common table salt), and then if you add an Messages in this topic _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080828-0, 08/28/2008 Tested on: 8/28/2008 11:42:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29465	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2008
Subject: Re: New to group

On a side note.. wouldn't it be a school of Koi?... or maybe they are mixed with flying fish so maybe "flock of Koi" would be appropriate then. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New to group First, one does not have to be ill, or showing signs of illness to be a carrier of pathogens. Does Typhoid Mary ring a bell? Captive fish can be healthier than wild fish, simply because they are taken care of rather than having to fend for themselves. Captive fish may carry a pathogen that endemic fish have no defense against. That pathogen can run rampant through a native population, perhaps decimating it before it can be stopped. The water you describe sounds as though it may be part of a closed system. If it is, no harm, no foul. If it is not, there may be protections in place to prevent the spread of the fish and/or pathogens carried by the fish and the escape of the fish that may not be obvious to the visitors to the pond. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to group Steve, if he hasn't got sick fish, aren't his fish probably healthier than wild fish? From the sites on fish wildlife, and web pages on some fish diseases that are common among wild fish as well as aquarium fish, I gather that wild fish are regular finned parasite coops. If it's just a back yard fish pond, then unless there are actual laws against it I wouldn't worry about it. Near me is a carefully constructed bird park around a water collection/ natural treatment pond, and there is a little flock of koi in it. I really don't think koi are a native fish; particularly not bright orange and white ones. (G) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:55 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New to group Mark, Does the pond have a liner, or is it an earthen bottom. If the latter, this could be causing your cloudiness, if the cloudiness is a muddy type of cloudiness. One thing I worry about is where the water goes after it goes out of your pond. If it goes on as a natural waterway, you have a problem. You are taking that chance of introducing pathogens which are not endemic to your area into this particular watershed, as well as possibly contributing escapees to it as well. Certain governmental units take a dim view of such activities. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080828-0, 08/28/2008 Tested on: 8/28/2008 11:49:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29466	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: New to group

Well, I'm always thinking of dinosaurs. :) There's a small herd of them in a big flight cage behind me. Budgies, to be precise. Does eight to twelve koi constute a school? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New to group On a side note.. wouldn't it be a school of Koi?... or maybe they are mixed with flying fish so maybe "flock of Koi" would be appropriate then. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29467	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

I actually use Prime. API and Top Fin don't get the ammonia. I don't know, maybe it's me, I don't want to add even a small amount of ammonia to my tank. Though it does seem to have finished cycling. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:42 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water Not if you are using a good and basic dechlor product. API's and TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator use 1ml per 10G which is about one drop per gallon. If you are using one of the expensive products that dechlor and supposedly does the stress-this and slime-that treatments also, then I'm sure it would take much more than 1ml per gallon. Those products are not needed for everyday fish keeping. They may or may not be helpful when shipping fish but they aren't needed in our regular tanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29468	From: Alina	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: New member: Alina in Florida

Thank you for this..I'll check all of it out. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It's good to get in the habit of doing weekly PWC's and the amount depends > on the bioload of the tank. Right now, with only two smaller fish in a 40G, > 10% PWC's would be fine but as you increase the bioload, then you need to > increase the amount/size of your PWC's. 25% PWC's, weekly, is usually an > amount needed for a fully stocked tank. You should also vacuum your gravel > and do filter maintenance on a regular basis also. DO NOT throw away your > filter cartridges or media, even though the instructions may tell you to. > That is just the filter companies way of making money. It's not needed and > in many cases, it's bad for your tank and fish as the good nitrifying > bacteria (the nitrogen cycle) lives mostly in your filter media so if you > throw it away, you would put your tank back into a mini-cycle each time and > the ammonia/nitrite spikes are not good for your fish. > > I use the Python Water Change System to vacuum my gravel, siphon the water > and then refill my tank, directly from the tap. I just add my dechlor into > the tank as I start the refill process and all is fine since the dechlors > work instantly. The main thing is to make sure the temp is within 1-2F so > you don't change the temp too much, too fast in the tank. Yes, the fish > stay in the tank but with the Python or any other gravel siphon, be ready to > turn off the valve or pinch the hose if a fish goes into the siphon tube. > Most of the time, the stay clear but hungry fish will hang around the tube > hoping for some stirred up scraps. All you need is a simple dechlor product > that treats for chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals. You DON'T need all > the slime-this and stress-that type chemicals or any kind of pH adjusting > chemicals as they just add unnecessary chemicals to your tank. > > You should also get a decent Master Test Kit with at least pH, ammonia, > nitrite and nitrate tests... GH and KH are also helpful but not mandatory. > While you are "Cycling With Fish" (article on my A to Z page), you should be > testing your water on a daily basis and be prepared to do 25% PWC's as > needed to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1.0ppm. You don't want them > at zero yet as the good nitrifying bacteria need ammonia and then nitrites > to feed off of to grow their colonies in your filter, gravel, etc., but you > don't want the ammonia/nitrite going above 1.0ppm as that is much more > dangerous to your fish. Even lower levels of ammonia can be toxic if you > have a higher pH so give us your test results so we can further instruct > you. > > Go to my blog and click on the A to Z of Fish Keeping page. Near the top of > that page are two links to free online fish keeping tutorials from very well > establish websites that rarely have bad info on them. I try to vet any and > all websites before I link to them on my blog and I might sometimes have a > link with a disclaimer about the site if it only has some good info. Read > over the rest of the A to Z page and come back here with any questions you > may have. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New member: Alina in Florida > > > Hi > > Glad to have found the group. I am an aquarium newbie. Started a freshwater > (tropical) aquarium about two weeks ago. Still cycling the tank before (I > hope) the fun begins. > > It's a 40-gal tank, and right now all I have are two tetras to get things > going. So far, it's all working according to plan to my great surprise. > > I have a couple of questions that I can't seem to get simple answers to from > books and websites: > > 1. Water changes -- the advice runs the spectrum -- Do it once a week, 50%; > do it once a month 10%. So I guess I should do something in the middle. I'm > thinking twice a month with perhaps 20%? Advice about what's best is really > welcome. And I notice some folks change the water directly from the faucet-- > don't I need to condition the new water? > > 2. Cleaning the tank: What vaccumn system is best (and easiest). My tank is > nowhere near a sink so I guess I'll have to use buckets. How will I know the > gravel is cleaned enough? How do I make sure all the rocks and things aren't > disturbed? And I assume the fish stay in the tank while I do this? > > See, I warned you I was new at this! > > If I can find this info on a good website, please send me the link. > > Thanks > > Alina > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080828-0, 08/28/2008 > Tested on: 8/28/2008 1:22:15 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29469	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: New to group

For fish keeping purposes in our tanks, usually 5-6 to 10 fish is considered a school but if the tank is large enough, then a much larger school could be kept. That is the general rule (at least 5-6 fish) promoted by most good fish profiles and care sheets when it comes to fish that need to be in schools. For many catfish, loaches and other bottom dwelling species, the term is usually called shoals since they more or less just hang out with each other in a tight group but don't go swimming around the tank in any kind of organized fashion together. Of course, whales and other fish-mammals groups are called pods. There may be other terms for fish groups as well but I don't think "flock" is one of them. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to group Well, I'm always thinking of dinosaurs. :) There's a small herd of them in a big flight cage behind me. Budgies, to be precise. Does eight to twelve koi constute a school? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New to group On a side note.. wouldn't it be a school of Koi?... or maybe they are mixed with flying fish so maybe "flock of Koi" would be appropriate then. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 11:02:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 11:43:34 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29470	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Remember that during a 25% PWC, where the replacement water does contain chloramine, it will only result in an overall ammonia amount in the tank of only 0.125ppm... which is 25% of 0.5ppm. When the chloramine is broken down, it releases 0.5ppm but since you are only replacing 25% of the tank water, that 0.5ppm gets diluted down to only 0.125ppm. A fully stocked, not overstocked, tank bioload will produce 4-5ppm of ammonia each day so the added 0.125ppm is a very, very slight increase which is easily handled by the nitrifying bacteria colonies in an established tank. Prime is fine to use as an ongoing dechlor product if someone doesn't mind wasting their money... but it's not needed in established tanks with normal bioloads. When starting up a tank where someone chose to cycle with fish, then using Prime is a good thing. If someone mistakenly over-cleans their filters or trashes their filter or has to use some kind of medicine that harms their biological filtration, putting their tank into a mini-cycle, then using Prime could be a good thing. If someone has a severely overstocked and under filtered tank where they have a continual ammonia problem, Prime could be a good thing (although they should immediately fix the overstock issue instead of trying to rely on a chemical fix... yes, Prime is just another chemical). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 10:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water I actually use Prime. API and Top Fin don't get the ammonia. I don't know, maybe it's me, I don't want to add even a small amount of ammonia to my tank. Though it does seem to have finished cycling. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:42 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water Not if you are using a good and basic dechlor product. API's and TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator use 1ml per 10G which is about one drop per gallon. If you are using one of the expensive products that dechlor and supposedly does the stress-this and slime-that treatments also, then I'm sure it would take much more than 1ml per gallon. Those products are not needed for everyday fish keeping. They may or may not be helpful when shipping fish but they aren't needed in our regular tanks. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 11:02:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 11:53:26 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29471	From: risika23	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Babies

I was cleaning my tank yesterday and while about to dump the water I have removed I saw a couple little baby fish swimming around in my bucket. Well for fun I caught them and put them in a small tank with water from the tank they came out off. My question is what should I feed them. they are so small that I don't know if they could eat flake fish food. They are really little. Smaller than a pin head. I do not know what kind of fish they are. I only have two species in my tank. Dojo loaches and Danios. Its most likely that they are danios. Please give me food suggestions. I read somewhere about liquid food. But where do I find that? Jennifer

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29472	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks

I've been busy down here in N'Awlins with my business and helping some of my customers prepare for Hurricane Gustav which is forecast to hit our area... of course, we all know that weather forecasters are only right about 10% of the time down here (this past Monday had an 80% chance of rain... not a drop hit the ground!) and hurricane forecasts are even less accurate down here, until about 24 hours away, so I'm not overly concerned about Gustav right now, but I understand when others might be. Anyhow, back to the topic... someone just left a comment on my blog, "Power Outage! - How Me And My Fish Survived Hurricane Katrina", so I thought I would share the link to give any Gulf Coast area fish keepers something to read and think about while Gustav is still several days away. I also have links to winter time power outages also for any Yankees reading this! ;-) http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 12:20:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 12:22:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29473	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Babies

Hi Jennifer, I have small fish in my tank all the time. They eat the small dust of the flake food I feed the others. If you flake is in large pieces just smash some up and then drop it in the water above where the little ones are at. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. risika23 wrote: > > I was cleaning my tank yesterday and while about to dump the water I > have removed I saw a couple little baby fish swimming around in my > bucket. Well for fun I caught them and put them in a small tank with > water from the tank they came out off. My question is what should I > feed them. they are so small that I don't know if they could eat flake > fish food. They are really little. Smaller than a pin head. I do not > know what kind of fish they are. I only have two species in my tank. > Dojo loaches and Danios. Its most likely that they are danios. Please > give me food suggestions. I read somewhere about liquid food. But where > do I find that? > > Jennifer > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29474	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Babies

Jennifer, The Mongabay profiles have feeding instructions for each species and their fry on their profiles. Here are the profiles for Zebra Danios and Dojo (Weather) Loaches. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Brachydanio_rerio.html (ZD's) Oops.. I can't find the profile for the Dojo on Mongabay but here are two other good sites for good Dojo loach profiles. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/weather-loach-misgurnis-anguillicaudatu s http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/loaches/dojoloach.html (has fry feeding info in the "Breeding" section) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of risika23 Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Babies I was cleaning my tank yesterday and while about to dump the water I have removed I saw a couple little baby fish swimming around in my bucket. Well for fun I caught them and put them in a small tank with water from the tank they came out off. My question is what should I feed them. they are so small that I don't know if they could eat flake fish food. They are really little. Smaller than a pin head. I do not know what kind of fish they are. I only have two species in my tank. Dojo loaches and Danios. Its most likely that they are danios. Please give me food suggestions. I read somewhere about liquid food. But where do I find that? Jennifer _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 12:30:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29475	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks

Lenny, how are you telling them to prepare? You know that they're making preparations for a mandatory evacuation of the city, right? Say - where exactly did you spend Katrina? My suggestion would be to prepare two weeks of water changes suitable if you also can't aerate the tank, and cover the water. But that won't help if you have to leave - and don't think you'll carry any fish stuck in your underwear, like people were doing with their pet dinosaurs. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>; <Ponds-Koi@yahoogroups.com>; <Gold-Fish@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks I've been busy down here in N'Awlins with my business and helping some of my customers prepare for Hurricane Gustav which is forecast to hit our area... of course, we all know that weather forecasters are only right about 10% of the time down here (this past Monday had an 80% chance of rain... not a drop hit the ground!) and hurricane forecasts are even less accurate down here, until about 24 hours away, so I'm not overly concerned about Gustav right now, but I understand when others might be. Anyhow, back to the topic... someone just left a comment on my blog, "Power Outage! - How Me And My Fish Survived Hurricane Katrina", so I thought I would share the link to give any Gulf Coast area fish keepers something to read and think about while Gustav is still several days away. I also have links to winter time power outages also for any Yankees reading this! ;-) http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html Lenny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29476	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Babies

You can feed them food for fish fry and brine shrimp. I should think you could temporarily feed them household items you can feed baby brine shrimp, though I think I'd go for something more nutritious than flour. I wonder if they can nibble on bigger pieces of food? You can feed them freshly hatched brine shrimp. You can also keep them in a tank-shaped structure with netting that you hang in the main tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "risika23" <Risika23@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:56 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Babies I was cleaning my tank yesterday and while about to dump the water I have removed I saw a couple little baby fish swimming around in my bucket. Well for fun I caught them and put them in a small tank with water from the tank they came out off. My question is what should I feed them. they are so small that I don't know if they could eat flake fish food. They are really little. Smaller than a pin head. I do not know what kind of fish they are. I only have two species in my tank. Dojo loaches and Danios. Its most likely that they are danios. Please give me food suggestions. I read somewhere about liquid food. But where do I find that? Jennifer ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29477	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks

You would have to read my blog article to see how me and my fish survived Katrina and how I prepared. I'm even more prepared this time. The only thing I really missed during the 14 days of no power after Katrina was good old fashioned energy consuming Air Conditioning!!! But I've got that covered now with a generator and a window A/C unit! LOL (Yeah.. I'll power the filter systems for the fish too!) (I'll also keep power to the refrigerator so the beer doesn't get hot! LOL) Mandatory evacuation is only a technical, political term. They don't come around making people leave. Most governments do not call for mandatory evacuations until the very last minutes... or after the event happens, since making that declaration also makes them liable for the expense of evacuating people (travel, food, lodging, etc.)... but they still don't make it mandatory that someone leaves their home if the people decide they want to stay... this is still America... land of the FREE, home of the BRAVE! I've always stayed and rode out hurricanes since I was a little kid although we did stay in a more sturdy hotel on historic St. Charles Avenue, during Betsy many years ago. Since then, I've been in my home du jour each time. My blog explains the reasons for this also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks Lenny, how are you telling them to prepare? You know that they're making preparations for a mandatory evacuation of the city, right? Say - where exactly did you spend Katrina? My suggestion would be to prepare two weeks of water changes suitable if you also can't aerate the tank, and cover the water. But that won't help if you have to leave - and don't think you'll carry any fish stuck in your underwear, like people were doing with their pet dinosaurs. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >; <Ponds-Koi@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ponds-Koi%40yahoogroups.com> >; <Gold-Fish@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Gold-Fish%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks I've been busy down here in N'Awlins with my business and helping some of my customers prepare for Hurricane Gustav which is forecast to hit our area... of course, we all know that weather forecasters are only right about 10% of the time down here (this past Monday had an 80% chance of rain... not a drop hit the ground!) and hurricane forecasts are even less accurate down here, until about 24 hours away, so I'm not overly concerned about Gustav right now, but I understand when others might be. Anyhow, back to the topic... someone just left a comment on my blog, "Power Outage! - How Me And My Fish Survived Hurricane Katrina", so I thought I would share the link to give any Gulf Coast area fish keepers something to read and think about while Gustav is still several days away. I also have links to winter time power outages also for any Yankees reading this! ;-) http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html> Lenny ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 12:53:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 1:03:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29478	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks

Good luck to all of you down there was in Louisiana for Andrew and that was enough for me. I’ll stick to the Midwest and tornadoes at least I can hide form those. Stay safe! Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks You would have to read my blog article to see how me and my fish survived Katrina and how I prepared. I'm even more prepared this time. The only thing I really missed during the 14 days of no power after Katrina was good old fashioned energy consuming Air Conditioning!!! But I've got that covered now with a generator and a window A/C unit! LOL (Yeah.. I'll power the filter systems for the fish too!) (I'll also keep power to the refrigerator so the beer doesn't get hot! LOL) Mandatory evacuation is only a technical, political term. They don't come around making people leave. Most governments do not call for mandatory evacuations until the very last minutes... or after the event happens, since making that declaration also makes them liable for the expense of evacuating people (travel, food, lodging, etc.)... but they still don't make it mandatory that someone leaves their home if the people decide they want to stay... this is still America... land of the FREE, home of the BRAVE! I've always stayed and rode out hurricanes since I was a little kid although we did stay in a more sturdy hotel on historic St. Charles Avenue, during Betsy many years ago. Since then, I've been in my home du jour each time. My blog explains the reasons for this also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks Lenny, how are you telling them to prepare? You know that they're making preparations for a mandatory evacuation of the city, right? Say - where exactly did you spend Katrina? My suggestion would be to prepare two weeks of water changes suitable if you also can't aerate the tank, and cover the water. But that won't help if you have to leave - and don't think you'll carry any fish stuck in your underwear, like people were doing with their pet dinosaurs. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >; <Ponds-Koi@yahoogrou <mailto:Ponds-Koi%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com <mailto:Ponds-Koi%40yahoogroups.com> >; <Gold-Fish@yahoogrou <mailto:Gold-Fish%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com <mailto:Gold-Fish%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks I've been busy down here in N'Awlins with my business and helping some of my customers prepare for Hurricane Gustav which is forecast to hit our area... of course, we all know that weather forecasters are only right about 10% of the time down here (this past Monday had an 80% chance of rain... not a drop hit the ground!) and hurricane forecasts are even less accurate down here, until about 24 hours away, so I'm not overly concerned about Gustav right now, but I understand when others might be. Anyhow, back to the topic... someone just left a comment on my blog, "Power Outage! - How Me And My Fish Survived Hurricane Katrina", so I thought I would share the link to give any Gulf Coast area fish keepers something to read and think about while Gustav is still several days away. I also have links to winter time power outages also for any Yankees reading this! ;-) http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html> blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html <http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html> blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html> Lenny ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 12:53:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 1:03:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29479	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks

But at least we get several days of warnings before a hurricane so we can prepare for them... all ya'll get is the sound of a run-away train coming your way... rather quickly! I'll take a hurricane over tornadoes, earthquakes, flash floods, fires, avalanches, rock slides, tsunamis, tidal-waves and/or a terrorist attack any day! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks Good luck to all of you down there. was in Louisiana for Andrew and that was enough for me. I'll stick to the Midwest and tornadoes.at least I can hide form those. Stay safe! Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks You would have to read my blog article to see how me and my fish survived Katrina and how I prepared. I'm even more prepared this time. The only thing I really missed during the 14 days of no power after Katrina was good old fashioned energy consuming Air Conditioning!!! But I've got that covered now with a generator and a window A/C unit! LOL (Yeah.. I'll power the filter systems for the fish too!) (I'll also keep power to the refrigerator so the beer doesn't get hot! LOL) Mandatory evacuation is only a technical, political term. They don't come around making people leave. Most governments do not call for mandatory evacuations until the very last minutes... or after the event happens, since making that declaration also makes them liable for the expense of evacuating people (travel, food, lodging, etc.)... but they still don't make it mandatory that someone leaves their home if the people decide they want to stay... this is still America... land of the FREE, home of the BRAVE! I've always stayed and rode out hurricanes since I was a little kid although we did stay in a more sturdy hotel on historic St. Charles Avenue, during Betsy many years ago. Since then, I've been in my home du jour each time. My blog explains the reasons for this also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks Lenny, how are you telling them to prepare? You know that they're making preparations for a mandatory evacuation of the city, right? Say - where exactly did you spend Katrina? My suggestion would be to prepare two weeks of water changes suitable if you also can't aerate the tank, and cover the water. But that won't help if you have to leave - and don't think you'll carry any fish stuck in your underwear, like people were doing with their pet dinosaurs. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >; <Ponds-Koi@yahoogrou <mailto:Ponds-Koi%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com <mailto:Ponds-Koi%40yahoogroups.com> >; <Gold-Fish@yahoogrou <mailto:Gold-Fish%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com <mailto:Gold-Fish%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks I've been busy down here in N'Awlins with my business and helping some of my customers prepare for Hurricane Gustav which is forecast to hit our area... of course, we all know that weather forecasters are only right about 10% of the time down here (this past Monday had an 80% chance of rain... not a drop hit the ground!) and hurricane forecasts are even less accurate down here, until about 24 hours away, so I'm not overly concerned about Gustav right now, but I understand when others might be. Anyhow, back to the topic... someone just left a comment on my blog, "Power Outage! - How Me And My Fish Survived Hurricane Katrina", so I thought I would share the link to give any Gulf Coast area fish keepers something to read and think about while Gustav is still several days away. I also have links to winter time power outages also for any Yankees reading this! ;-) http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html> > > blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html <http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html> > > blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html> Lenny _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 1:42:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29480	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks

Yup. One thing about tornadoes, they may go down your street, but they aren't likely to hit your house! Not kidding, I've seen them do it. Several times. They're very localized affairs. This is why they don't often hit downtown areas of major cities. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks Good luck to all of you down there. was in Louisiana for Andrew and that was enough for me. I'll stick to the Midwest and tornadoes.at least I can hide form those. Stay safe! Eric

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29481	From: Margie	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks

We were in Guam during a super typhoon (190 MPH) and lost power for 30 days and no water for 10. Got water from the navy base after the 10 days. I had a 40 gallon salt water tank and with the neighborhood kids trying their best ,even bumping air into it with a tire pump, they did not make it. Tropcial fish did better. That was a 20 G. tank. And here we are again, sitting on the Gulf Coast in Texas. We were flooded out of our company apt last year just from a tropical storm. A tropical storm can bring as much if not more water then a hurricane. And can stay around a lot longer. I gave my four gorgeous tropcials to a friend and she still has them. That is why I have the 50 G available for the goldfish. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...>: -------------- > You would have to read my blog article to see how me and my fish survived > Katrina and how I prepared. I'm even more prepared this time. The only > thing I really missed during the 14 days of no power after Katrina was good > old fashioned energy consuming Air Conditioning!!! But I've got that > covered now with a generator and a window A/C unit! LOL (Yeah.. I'll power > the filter systems for the fish too!) (I'll also keep power to the > refrigerator so the beer doesn't get hot! LOL) > > Mandatory evacuation is only a technical, political term. They don't come > around making people leave. Most governments do not call for mandatory > evacuations until the very last minutes... or after the event happens, since > making that declaration also makes them liable for the expense of evacuating > people (travel, food, lodging, etc.)... but they still don't make it > mandatory that someone leaves their home if the people decide they want to > stay... this is still America... land of the FREE, home of the BRAVE! I've > always stayed and rode out hurricanes since I was a little kid although we > did stay in a more sturdy hotel on historic St. Charles Avenue, during Betsy > many years ago. Since then, I've been in my home du jour each time. My > blog explains the reasons for this also. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks > > Lenny, how are you telling them to prepare? > > You know that they're making preparations for a mandatory evacuation of the > city, right? > > Say - where exactly did you spend Katrina? > > My suggestion would be to prepare two weeks of water changes suitable if you > also can't aerate the tank, and cover the water. But that won't help if you > have to leave - and don't think you'll carry any fish stuck in your > underwear, like people were doing with their pet dinosaurs. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > To: >; > >; > > > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:22 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks > > I've been busy down here in N'Awlins with my business and helping some of my > customers prepare for Hurricane Gustav which is forecast to hit our area... > of course, we all know that weather forecasters are only right about 10% of > the time down here (this past Monday had an 80% chance of rain... not a drop > hit the ground!) and hurricane forecasts are even less accurate down here, > until about 24 hours away, so I'm not overly concerned about Gustav right > now, but I understand when others might be. > > Anyhow, back to the topic... someone just left a comment on my blog, "Power > Outage! - How Me And My Fish Survived Hurricane Katrina", so I thought I > would share the link to give any Gulf Coast area fish keepers something to > read and think about while Gustav is still several days away. I also have > links to winter time power outages also for any Yankees reading this! ;-) > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html > > > Lenny > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 > Tested on: 8/29/2008 12:53:11 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 > Tested on: 8/29/2008 1:03:40 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29482	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks

Naw. We usually know when there are likely to be tornadoes. My neighborhood even runs a fire siren. Even when theý're a surprise the word gets out fast. Maybe we just have a good warning system. But really, everyone here knows that violent weather produces a high risk for tornados. Besides, did you ever fail to hear that freight train thing? Not to mention all that rain pouring in through the closed windows. And the building making like there was an earth quake. In fact, in my experience, an earth quake is far easier to miss. We all ran in the bathroom and hid. Didn't know there was supposed to be a tornado. In fact, weatherman never admitted there was a tornado. I don't know how many straight line winds can cut a single swath exactly a hundred feet wide, mowing down every bush and tree but never touching the houses, make sudden repeated turns at right angles, rise to house level and narrow to fifty feet to turn and travel between two houses, mowing down every tree at exactly house height, drop to mid street sign level and turn left, bend over in half every street sign, as well as knocking all the branches off the trees, and then turn sharply right down the next street a half a short block from my house, knocking the bird feeders and a couple of leaves off the tree in my yard less than a hundred feet away as it went by. (I was at the laundromat when it hit.) Either it was a tornado, or God was out practicing with his weed whacker - and it actually looked more like the latter. VBG. A mile away, another not tornado mowed down a line of big trees, pulling them up by the roots, and then picked up an apartment building, and threw it through the wall of the next apartment building. And besides that, when did you ever see straight line winds accompanied by steady lightening and rain pouring so hard it poured into the building through closed windows? Here we calls that a supercell. Now, to be sure, Texas hurricanes are very bland affairs. If you're lucky you see a few cirrus clouds and the temperature and the wind pick up. If you're VERY lucky it rains. Steadily. And if you're REALLY, REALLY lucky, the hurricane goes around Austin on both sides, and around the city even though it clouds over, just five drops of rain ever fall. Not, I'm kidding. I counted all five of them. One pulled this trick several weeks ago. But if you're completely lucky the city might fill up with people running away from Houston to watch the cirrus clouds go by. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:42 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks But at least we get several days of warnings before a hurricane so we can prepare for them... all ya'll get is the sound of a run-away train coming your way... rather quickly! I'll take a hurricane over tornadoes, earthquakes, flash floods, fires, avalanches, rock slides, tsunamis, tidal-waves and/or a terrorist attack any day! ;-)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29483	From: Chris	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Distilled Water or Our Precious Bodily Fluids

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/X4XhhTF7vRM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/X4XhhTF7vRM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Bill Scott makes an excellent point. Regardless of which party is brought > up, it DOES NOT BELONG ON THIS FORUM. I don't know which moderator allowed this > post to get through, but I would certainly not have done so if I had seen it > first. I had warned about such posts just recently. The next time there is > such an off-topic remark made about politics, I will personally delete the > whole message. Ray </HTML> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29484	From: vivian bradish	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel

When I do the gravel cleaning, I am going to put the fish in a new 5 gallon bucket. How long can I keep them in there before the oxygen runs out? I have 20 fish. Thanks, Viv

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29485	From: Chris	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

: > > Chris, > > I don't think people were complaining about you so much as the original > poster who included the "commies" comment in their reply... which then > prompted me, you and others to reply to their "commies" comment. I get what you are saying. If I were moderator I would have handled it differently, like take it up privately with the original offender instead of posting it in the threat, which in my mind at the time, was meant for everyone who contributed. > > I'm still curious though to your aversion to dechlorinators... do you mind > eating foods that are grown with chlorine/chloramine treated water... like > people who have gardens in their back yards and water them with their tap > water when they don't get enough rain? I'm not really comfortable with taking in a toxic gas into my body. I prefer tap water over any other because I'm used to the taste, and actually like it. I know chlorine in water is supposed to be safe....supposed to be atleast. I really don't have much choice in the matter though. > > I'm not sure how a dechlor product would be all that harmful and are > probably less harmful than the things found naturally in most of the worlds > waterways. Nearly all major dechlor products are based on sodium > thiosulfate at such a small dosage and then it only takes around 1 drop per > gallon for the already highly diluted sodium thiosulfate to break down the > chlorine or chloramine. It is an interresting chemical with many uses I'll give it that. Photographic processing, Gold extraction, hand warmers, tanning leather, and treatment for patients who have End-Stage Renal Disease. Assuming it is toxic to the system, even tiny doses can add up over time. > > I would suspect that in such micro amounts, sodium thiosulfate is no more > harmful than that other commonly used household chemical that we ingest on a > daily basis, sodium chloride (NaCl aka common table salt), and then if you > add an extra Oxygen molecule to salt, you end up with another common > household chemical, sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl aka Bleach), which gets us > right back to the chlorine (Cl) or chloramine (NH2Cl) in most tap water > sources which are also likely to include that other common household > chemical that we drink on a daily basis, sodium fluoride (included in most > tap waters to help prevent tooth decay). I guess my point is that there are > various "sodium" based chemicals in nearly everything we eat, drink and use > on a daily basis... from tap water to toothpaste to hair shampoo to soap > to... on and on and on. Check out the MSDS sheets on every product in your > home and you'll see the list of "sodiums" in them. > > So, in conclusion, is it better to ingest chlorine/chloramine and sodium > fluoride in untreated water... or sodium thiosulfate in dechlored water? I > don't know. Neither do I. I'm sure it is probably safe since it has medical applications. You really can't say that just because it is a sodium compound it can't be harmful. Just as you said add an extra oxygen molecule to table salt and you get bleach. Add one extra oxygen molecule to water (H202) and you get a corrosive and toxic chemical called Hydrogen Peroxide. Interestingly enough our bodies produce H2O2. > > Personally, I'd be more grossed out about eating food that I know was grown > in water full of my fishes poop and pee. What next, dessert Poop-sicles > made with frozen fish water and the entire meal washed down with a nice big > glass of Iced Pee? LOL (You see, now, I have a sense of humor!) I'm glad. I know you really aren't questioning the hygiene of Aquaponics, but everything that grows in the ground is grown in rotting debris and manure. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water > > The thing is it really wasn't meant to be political. Actual politics was a > side comment. I probably would have made the same comment but differntly and > would have been more obvious. > > What you are missing is that the comments about commies was really a > reference to the movie Dr Strange Love. Or how I learned to love the nuclear > bomb. The movie was a movie durring the cold war from a comedic view point > The movie wasn't bashing the Russians either. The story was about a Army > Base Commander that went crazy and decided to send a fleet of bombers > carrying nukes to bomb russia and start a nuclear war. Why? Because he only > drinks rain water and grain alcohol, because floridation is a commie plot to > "contaminate our precious bodily fluids" > > I'm asking questions about distilled water because I don't want to eat foods > that have been grown in declorinated water. Do you see the connection? I > really hope that the two offenders aren't the only people here that aren't > so serious about fish that they have no sense of humor. > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080828-0, 08/28/2008 > Tested on: 8/28/2008 11:04:20 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29486	From: Chris	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

I really do agree. I hate politics. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Strangelove? Commies? Fish lovers are very odd people. > > I'll keep in mind that we don't mention politics on the list. (G) > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:04 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water > > > The thing is it really wasn't meant to be political. Actual politics > was a side comment. I probably would have made the same comment but > differntly and would have been more obvious. > > What you are missing is that the comments about commies was really a > reference to the movie Dr Strange Love. Or how I learned to love the > nuclear bomb. The movie was a movie durring the cold war from a > comedic view point The movie wasn't bashing the Russians either. The > story was about a Army Base Commander that went crazy and decided to >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29487	From: Chris	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Its still funny though! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William J. Scott" <w.j.scott@...> wrote: > > Hey, > Let's keep the politics off the list. > I could say the same about the other party. > A fish forum is not the place to bring up religon OR politics. > My 2 cents worth. > > Bill > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Dora Smith > Date: 08/27/08 14:46:31 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water > > So in other words, Chris, you don't drink it, and if you don't drink it, it > doesn't go in the fish tank. > > To be sure, for anyone who's interested (which probably isn't some of the > older guys here), tap water does routinely contain alot of nasties. I drink > it, but I pardon anyone who doesn't. > > Look out, Chris, they eat Commies here. A Commie is a Democrat. > Running... LOL! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:58 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water > > why am I opposed to tap water? Because I don't know what effects > declorinators have on the human body. Why do I say that when you > don't drink tank water?, you are thinking. Because I will be > filtering my tank water through a grow bed to grow vegetables, and > what my activated carbon doesn't absorb, my lettuce and what-not will. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29488	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel

Big fish or little fish? I would generally not be too worried about leaving my 15 tiny fish in a five gallon bucket for a few hours. Longer than it takes to clean the gravel. Of course, you want to have the water ready to put back. Or atleast most of it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "vivian bradish" <viv32117@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel When I do the gravel cleaning, I am going to put the fish in a new 5 gallon bucket. How long can I keep them in there before the oxygen runs out? I have 20 fish. Thanks, Viv ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29489	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel

Leave them in the original tank. We do this every week when we clean the gravel. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel When I do the gravel cleaning, I am going to put the fish in a new 5 gallon bucket. How long can I keep them in there before the oxygen runs out? I have 20 fish. Thanks, Viv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29490	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Chris, It's quite obvious that there is nothing what so ever (not even a hint <g>) of anything political in your remarks in this Distilled Water thread. Even trying to find the slightest link to anything political in it would be an impossible task. I regret your making any such connection and coming to that conclusion, even failing to understand how anyone could, with your comments being nothing but straightforward. The immediate follow-up reply to your post was obvious in its political content and was blatently so, as also noted and dutifully remarked about by Bill Scott, whom I referenced in my remark, and which should have shown precisely the origin of said remark. As this person was warned about this very same type of comment (political) in a recent post previously, this party in question should have known to whom I was speaking (and as no one else made any political remarks, there was no need for anyone else, including yourself, to even consider this warning as being directed to them). In such situations, as we (collectively) are responsible for allowing such a remark to slip through, I feel no need to take this privately, as a public warning without including a name should suffice since they know (or should know) to whom I'm speaking. I "play" this the same as baseball -- while you get a few chances for slipping up (especially as we should have "caught" it), with the third strike you're out! No need to take my warning of being repeatedly off-topic (making political remarks) to heart if you hadn't made any such remarks (which I can't see where you did). As an old saying goes, there are two thing that should never be discussed in a group of people possibly having mixed opinions and emotions about these topics, and they are, religion and politics. For this reason, for the good of the membership, we cannot tolerate off-topic remarks in either of these two categories, regardless of which political party is mentioned. There are members here who might take offense, and they would have every right to as this is not the Forum in which to voice any such opinions. Hope this has allowed you to understand my position and has made you more at ease. The admonishment was made in an effort to protect the membership (including yourself) from these sorts of distasteful remarks. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29491	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel

Actually, come to think of it, so do I. If you find the water gets very mucky, you can add something to clump the fog, prepare some more water, wait until the next day and do it over again. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 5:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Leave them in the original tank. We do this every week when we clean the gravel.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29492	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks

Could have been a UFO buzzing your neighborhood looking for intelligent life form... they left! ;-) The weatherman is in on the cover-up which is why he's acting dumb. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 2:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks In fact, weatherman never admitted there was a tornado. I don't know how many straight line winds can cut a single swath exactly a hundred feet wide, mowing down every bush and tree but never touching the houses, make sudden repeated turns at right angles, rise to house level and narrow to fifty feet to turn and travel between two houses, mowing down every tree at exactly house height, drop to mid street sign level and turn left, bend over in half every street sign, as well as knocking all the branches off the trees, and then turn sharply right down the next street a half a short block from my house, knocking the bird feeders and a couple of leaves off the tree in my yard less than a hundred feet away as it went by. (I was at the laundromat when it hit.) Either it was a tornado, or God was out practicing with his weed whacker - and it actually looked more like the latter. VBG. A mile away, another not tornado mowed down a line of big trees, pulling them up by the roots, and then picked up an apartment building, and threw it through the wall of the next apartment building. And besides that, when did you ever see straight line winds accompanied by steady lightening and rain pouring so hard it poured into the building through closed windows? Here we calls that a supercell. Now, to be sure, Texas hurricanes are very bland affairs. If you're lucky you see a few cirrus clouds and the temperature and the wind pick up. If you're VERY lucky it rains. Steadily. And if you're REALLY, REALLY lucky, the hurricane goes around Austin on both sides, and around the city even though it clouds over, just five drops of rain ever fall. Not, I'm kidding. I counted all five of them. One pulled this trick several weeks ago. But if you're completely lucky the city might fill up with people running away from Houston to watch the cirrus clouds go by. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:42 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hurricane preparedness for our fish tanks But at least we get several days of warnings before a hurricane so we can prepare for them... all ya'll get is the sound of a run-away train coming your way... rather quickly! I'll take a hurricane over tornadoes, earthquakes, flash floods, fires, avalanches, rock slides, tsunamis, tidal-waves and/or a terrorist attack any day! ;-) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 7:42:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29493	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel

Why? What size tank do you have? The fish usually move away from the siphon tube when you are vacuuming your gravel... except for perpetually hungry goldfish who follow the tube around hoping for a stirred up scrap that they missed. I think it's more stressful to the fish to be moved than to stay in the tank while you vacuum your gravel. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 2:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel When I do the gravel cleaning, I am going to put the fish in a new 5 gallon bucket. How long can I keep them in there before the oxygen runs out? I have 20 fish. Thanks, Viv _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 7:53:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29494	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel

Dora, What do you mean by "add something to clump the fog"? I know that some pet stores sell chemical products that supposedly will clump particulates that might be suspended in the water so that the filter media will catch it but I've also read where these chemicals can cause gill issues for many fish as the water gets filtered through a fishes gills for the fish to get O2 from the water and those clumping chemicals can also clump up in a fishes gills. A better solution would be to add a layer of micro filtering floss pad that will catch the smaller particles that might make it through a less dense filter media. Micro filter floss pads work best with canister filter systems where the water cannot pass over the filter like it can with a HOB filter system. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 6:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Actually, come to think of it, so do I. If you find the water gets very mucky, you can add something to clump the fog, prepare some more water, wait until the next day and do it over again. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 5:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Leave them in the original tank. We do this every week when we clean the gravel. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 8:21:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29495	From: Chris	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Why don't you take it up privately with the person instead of threatening to delete an entire thread. Since you allready agree that I wasn't at fault, then why should I be punished because of someone else? Why not just privately threaten to kick and ban the person you have the problem with instead of threatening to delete the whole thread?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29496	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Chris, Go back and re-read Ray's reply. He didn't say he was going to delete the entire thread... just the original message that contained the off-topic political comment and then any follow-up off-topic replies to the original off-topic political comment... whew.. that was a lot of words to say he would only delete the off-topic messages. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com P. S. - Maybe we need to start up a Yahoo Group called AquaticLife_Politics_and_Religion... now that would be a fun group! LOL -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water Why don't you take it up privately with the person instead of threatening to delete an entire thread. Since you allready agree that I wasn't at fault, then why should I be punished because of someone else? Why not just privately threaten to kick and ban the person you have the problem with instead of threatening to delete the whole thread? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 8:58:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29497	From: Chris	Date: 8/29/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

A lot of words indeed! hehe I also stand corrected. I for sticking my foot in my mouth :$ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Chris, > > Go back and re-read Ray's reply. He didn't say he was going to delete the > entire thread... just the original message that contained the off-topic > political comment and then any follow-up off-topic replies to the original > off-topic political comment... whew.. that was a lot of words to say he > would only delete the off-topic messages. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > P. S. - Maybe we need to start up a Yahoo Group called > AquaticLife_Politics_and_Religion... now that would be a fun group! LOL > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water > > Why don't you take it up privately with the person instead of threatening to > delete an entire thread. Since you allready agree that I wasn't at fault, > then why should I be punished because of someone else? Why not just > privately threaten to kick and ban the person you have the problem with > instead of threatening to delete the whole thread? > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 > Tested on: 8/29/2008 8:58:24 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29498	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

It's better that any administrative messages about off-topic posts be done on the group email. That way the rest of us can be relieved that it has been dealt with and anyone who didn't know the topics were aquatic life only can learn as well. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 9:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water Chris, Go back and re-read Ray's reply. He didn't say he was going to delete the entire thread... just the original message that contained the off-topic political comment and then any follow-up off-topic replies to the original off-topic political comment... whew.. that was a lot of words to say he would only delete the off-topic messages. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com P. S. - Maybe we need to start up a Yahoo Group called AquaticLife_Politics_and_Religion... now that would be a fun group! LOL -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Distilled Water Why don't you take it up privately with the person instead of threatening to delete an entire thread. Since you allready agree that I wasn't at fault, then why should I be punished because of someone else? Why not just privately threaten to kick and ban the person you have the problem with instead of threatening to delete the whole thread? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 8:58:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29499	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Thank you Lenny, for helping to get my message across. My intentions were just as you pointed out -- no more and no less. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29500	From: joe t	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Distilled Water

Chris,  There was no offense taken and I did not mean to be offensive to anyone, either.  I am on this list for a long time.  We had problems with this sort of thing before and it got way out of control.   Just as you found yourself trying to explain what you meant (not being political), someone else is going to try to explain what they meant to your reply and so on.  There are many, many people using this list and they are from all over the world.  You don't know about their experiences and how they are going to react to something that was said.  As you can probably see by now, following some of these strings can get tricky and downright confusing. Before you know it everyone is explaining what they meant to say or why they said it and you have long dissertations on everything except what the group is meant for. I believe this group is a real service to aquarium keeping people.   The monitors Lenny, Ray and Steve are real pros at this and they try very hard to give a reasonable and informative answer. There are other moderators, also, and sometimes I even stick my two cents in, but these three gentlemen are the ones that I am acquainted with and they answer the majority of the questions. I usually don't comment on rebuttal but I didn't want you to feel like you were being singled out.  I will not be answering on this subject anymore for the reasons I cited above. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29501	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel

Well, the stuff I use hasn't killed my fish yet. I've used aqueon water clarifier, and kent freshwater proclear. The second works better. Atleast it clumps the stuff better. The company warned me that freshwater Kent will kill some salt water organizing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Dora, What do you mean by "add something to clump the fog"? I know that some pet stores sell chemical products that supposedly will clump particulates that might be suspended in the water so that the filter media will catch it but I've also read where these chemicals can cause gill issues for many fish as the water gets filtered through a fishes gills for the fish to get O2 from the water and those clumping chemicals can also clump up in a fishes gills. A better solution would be to add a layer of micro filtering floss pad that will catch the smaller particles that might make it through a less dense filter media. Micro filter floss pads work best with canister filter systems where the water cannot pass over the filter like it can with a HOB filter system. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 6:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Actually, come to think of it, so do I. If you find the water gets very mucky, you can add something to clump the fog, prepare some more water, wait until the next day and do it over again. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 5:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Leave them in the original tank. We do this every week when we clean the gravel. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080829-0, 08/29/2008 Tested on: 8/29/2008 8:21:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29502	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Live Plants...take two lol

I'm thinking about putting live plants in my tank, but I have no idea where to start, and what to get. Do they all have to be planted yadda yadda yadda...My room gets a lot of light btw. Thanks guys!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29503	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

What kind of lights do you have on the tank. Watts? k? How technical do you want to get? Kate --- On Sat, 8/30/08, littlesprite43086 <littlesprite43086@...> wrote: From: littlesprite43086 <littlesprite43086@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Live Plants...take two lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 2:08 PM I'm thinking about putting live plants in my tank, but I have no idea where to start, and what to get. Do they all have to be planted yadda yadda yadda...My room gets a lot of light btw. Thanks guys!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29504	From: Chris	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Air Wisp & Fish

I am keeping my tank inside the same room an air wisp is being used. Should I worry about the air wisp poisoning my fish?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29505	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

> I'm thinking about putting live plants in my tank, but I have no idea > where to start, and what to get. Do they all have to be planted yadda > yadda yadda...My room gets a lot of light btw. Thanks guys!! My experience has been very positive, but you have to start out right. And by starting out I mean the substrate you have on the bottom of the tank. If you choose the right plants you can get by without special lighting, etc. Not using extra lighting will limit what you can grow. There are several on line forums dedicated to planted tanks that would give you lots of information. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/ http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29506	From: Chris	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

Plants are one of my favorite topics. So I can help here :) To let you know, I grow plants as a hobby, but aquarium plants are something I'm not really familiar with. On the other hand, plants are plants, so the have all have pretty much the same basic needs. What kind of light does your room get? Is it bright direct light from the south? Is your tank next to or in the path of the sun's rays? I really believe that the best light is from the tank hood and if you want to make sure you get the best light possible, you should light pants from the hood. As far as artificial lights go, I prefer florescent over incandescent bulbs any day. Incandescents give off too much heat, use too much electricity, and aren't suitable for plant growth....at least for the land loving plants. I don't know anything about aquarium incandescents to qualify that statement for aquariums. Plants are living solar cells that use light, water, and CO2 to produce sugars that the plants need. One of the bi-products is oxygen and we use that to breath. Most people don't know this, but at night plants switch from using CO2 to oxygen, and give off CO2. Anyways, the better light you give your plants the more efficient your plants become. They grow better, give off more co2 and use more nutrients. In a tank, being able to use more nutrients is a good thing because the plants will consume more nitrates in your tank, but I don't know if you could stock a tank heavily enough to eliminate weekly PWC and still have room for your fish. Another important factor in plants is color spectrum. Plants in vegitative stage need a light that favors the blue spectrum. I prefer light with a color temp around 6500k with a very high blue spectrum. Another important factor is luminems. If you are growing plants that flower and want the plant to flower at its best, you need a light source that favors the red spectrum. Don't know about color temp for flowering though. I should, but I know what kind of bulbs to get and never thought of color temp. I was looking at aquarium bulbs and the good ones are pricey. I grow for food and for show and am willing to invest money into a light system if I get something out of it. $20 a bulb isn't worth the money for plants, IMHO, that are mainly vegetative. It just doesn't seem to justify the price. On the other hand, a good blue bulb will give off a more natural light, enhance fish with a lot of color and your decorations if they are colorful because they act like a black light and make things glow. Lighting your tank from the hood will also help your tank stand out more in a room. Any questions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29507	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

That was so great info. Thanks. By the way I bought 2 plant/aquarium lights for my tank hoods for almost 20 bucks and the plants grow better in my sons tank with the cheapo 2 bulbs for 3 bucks lights...hahaha! Heather -----Original Message----- From: Chris <crjm28@...> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Live Plants...take two lol Plants are one of my favorite topics. So I can help here :) To let you know, I grow plants as a hobby, but aquarium plants are something I'm not really familiar with. On the other hand, plants are plants, so the have all have pretty much the same basic needs. What kind of light does your room get? Is it bright direct light from the south? Is your tank next to or in the path of the sun's rays? I really believe that the best light is from the tank hood and if you want to make sure you get the best light possible, you should light pants from the hood. As far as artificial lights go, I prefer florescent over incandescent bulbs any day. Incandescents give off too much heat, use too much electricity, and aren't suitable for plant growth....at least for the land loving plants. I don't know anything about aquarium incandescents to qualify that statement for aquariums. Plants are living solar cells that use light, water, and CO2 to produce sugars that the plants need. One of the bi-products is oxygen and we use that to breath. Most people don't know this, but at night plants switch from using CO2 to oxygen, and give off CO2. Anyways, the better light you give your plants the more efficient your plants become. They grow better, give off more co2 and use more nutrients. In a tank, being able to use more nutrients is a good thing because the plants will consume more nitrates in your tank, but I don't know if you could stock a tank heavily enough to eliminate weekly PWC and still have room for your fish. Another important factor in plants is color spectrum. Plants in vegitative stage need a light that favors the blue spectrum. I prefer light with a color temp around 6500k with a very high blue spectrum. Another important factor is luminems. If you are growing plants that flower and want the plant to flower at its best, you need a light source that favors the red spectrum. Don't know about color temp for flowering though. I should, but I know what kind of bulbs to get and never thought of color temp. I was looking at aquarium bulbs and the good ones are pricey. I grow for food and for show and am willing to invest money into a light system if I get something out of it. $20 a bulb isn't worth the money for plants, IMHO, that are mainly vegetative. It just doesn't seem to justify the price. On the other hand, a good blue bulb will give off a more natural light, enhance fish with a lot of color and your decorations if they are colorful because they act like a black light and make things glow. Lighting your tank from the hood will also help your tank stand out more in a room. Any questions? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29508	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel

Remember that using too many chemicals in your fishes water is kind of like smoking cigarettes or breathing non-natural stuff for us humans. It may not kill you right away but it will cause health issues, etc. Since fish breathe by filtering water through their gills, any unnecessary chemicals added to the water is something the fish have to breath... unnecessarily. Things like aloe, clumping agents, etc., are not things found in nature so I try like heck to avoid them in my tanks. I fully understand having to use a dechlor product but other than that, most other chemicals should be avoided, unless medically necessary. Things like algae and particulates in the water are things that are found in most natural waterways (maybe a crystal clear mountain stream might be the exception... unless someone relieved themselves upstream. lol). Like I said in an earlier post, there are filter media for most normal filter systems and even specialty filter systems (Diatom filters and UV lights) that will make your water nearly crystal clear without the use of chemicals. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 2:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Well, the stuff I use hasn't killed my fish yet. I've used aqueon water clarifier, and kent freshwater proclear. The second works better. Atleast it clumps the stuff better. The company warned me that freshwater Kent will kill some salt water organizing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Dora, What do you mean by "add something to clump the fog"? I know that some pet stores sell chemical products that supposedly will clump particulates that might be suspended in the water so that the filter media will catch it but I've also read where these chemicals can cause gill issues for many fish as the water gets filtered through a fishes gills for the fish to get O2 from the water and those clumping chemicals can also clump up in a fishes gills. A better solution would be to add a layer of micro filtering floss pad that will catch the smaller particles that might make it through a less dense filter media. Micro filter floss pads work best with canister filter systems where the water cannot pass over the filter like it can with a HOB filter system. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 6:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Actually, come to think of it, so do I. If you find the water gets very mucky, you can add something to clump the fog, prepare some more water, wait until the next day and do it over again. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 5:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Leave them in the original tank. We do this every week when we clean the gravel. _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080830-0, 08/30/2008 Tested on: 8/30/2008 5:45:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29509	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish

What's an air wisp? I thought a wisp was used for beating eggs, etc. LOL Ahhh... I did a quick Google and see it's a Glade's air freshener product. I do not use any kinds of aerosol products in the room where I have my tanks. If you are definitely going to keep the air wisp operating, you should run carbon or other more advanced chemical filtration media in your filter systems at all times since some of it will certainly get into your water during gas exchange that takes place on the water surface. If you go with carbon, it should be changed every couple of weeks. I do not use it as a general rule but I did start using Purigen (from SeaChem) on my 65G two-goldfish tank a couple of years ago to aid in keeping that tank a little cleaner between weekly PWC's. I like that it's more efficient/effective than carbon and it can be recharged with household bleach to clean and reuse it many times. I have more about Purigen in my blog on "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 3:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish I am keeping my tank inside the same room an air wisp is being used. Should I worry about the air wisp poisoning my fish? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080830-0, 08/30/2008 Tested on: 8/30/2008 6:00:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29510	From: Chris	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

There is a reason for that. Some expensive products don't live up to their promise. Before I learned about color temp and spectrum I bought a t12 shop light and flourecent tubes that I thought would be the best match to sunlight. I got some natural light tubes and used those. The plants grew slow, but okay. Then I bought aquarium t12 bulbs and my plants did a lot better and was very pleased with the results. I got my stuff from walmart. I'll be setting up another grow bed soon, so I'm looking forward to experimenting with a different tube brand and different kind of t number. Now I know what to look for I'm gonna look only at tubes that have the spectrum and temp on the label --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "littlesprite43086" <littlesprite43086@...> wrote: > > I'm thinking about putting live plants in my tank, but I have no idea > where to start, and what to get. Do they all have to be planted yadda > yadda yadda...My room gets a lot of light btw. Thanks guys!! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29511	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

I would like to know what type of bulbs are good for aquariums and plants. I just have the bulbs that came with my set up Thanks in advance Janis In a message dated 8/30/2008 6:11:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lilredhd1@... writes: That was so great info. Thanks. By the way I bought 2 plant/aquarium lights for my tank hoods for almost 20 bucks and the plants grow better in my sons tank with the cheapo 2 bulbs for 3 bucks lights...hahaha! Heather -----Original Message----- From: Chris <_crjm28@..._ (mailto:crjm28@...) > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 4:22 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Live Plants...take two lol Plants are one of my favorite topics. So I can help here :) To let you know, I grow plants as a hobby, but aquarium plants are something I'm not really familiar with. On the other hand, plants are plants, so the have all have pretty much the same basic needs. What kind of light does your room get? Is it bright direct light from the south? Is your tank next to or in the path of the sun's rays? I really believe that the best light is from the tank hood and if you want to make sure you get the best light possible, you should light pants from the hood. As far as artificial lights go, I prefer florescent over incandescent bulbs any day. Incandescents give off too much heat, use too much electricity, and aren't suitable for plant growth....at least for the land loving plants. I don't know anything about aquarium incandescents to qualify that statement for aquariums. Plants are living solar cells that use light, water, and CO2 to produce sugars that the plants need. One of the bi-products is oxygen and we use that to breath. Most people don't know this, but at night plants switch from using CO2 to oxygen, and give off CO2. Anyways, the better light you give your plants the more efficient your plants become. They grow better, give off more co2 and use more nutrients. In a tank, being able to use more nutrients is a good thing because the plants will consume more nitrates in your tank, but I don't know if you could stock a tank heavily enough to eliminate weekly PWC and still have room for your fish. Another important factor in plants is color spectrum. Plants in vegitative stage need a light that favors the blue spectrum. I prefer light with a color temp around 6500k with a very high blue spectrum. Another important factor is luminems. If you are growing plants that flower and want the plant to flower at its best, you need a light source that favors the red spectrum. Don't know about color temp for flowering though. I should, but I know what kind of bulbs to get and never thought of color temp. I was looking at aquarium bulbs and the good ones are pricey. I grow for food and for show and am willing to invest money into a light system if I get something out of it. $20 a bulb isn't worth the money for plants, IMHO, that are mainly vegetative. It just doesn't seem to justify the price. On the other hand, a good blue bulb will give off a more natural light, enhance fish with a lot of color and your decorations if they are colorful because they act like a black light and make things glow. Lighting your tank from the hood will also help your tank stand out more in a room. Any questions? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29512	From: Chris	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish

Thanks for the reply, but wouldn't the carbon filter absorb the fragrance? I mean carbon is used to absorb oder.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29513	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish

It shoots out a light mist of fragrance every so often. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 6:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish What's an air wisp? I thought a wisp was used for beating eggs, etc. LOL Ahhh... I did a quick Google and see it's a Glade's air freshener product. I do not use any kinds of aerosol products in the room where I have my tanks. If you are definitely going to keep the air wisp operating, you should run carbon or other more advanced chemical filtration media in your filter systems at all times since some of it will certainly get into your water during gas exchange that takes place on the water surface. If you go with carbon, it should be changed every couple of weeks. I do not use it as a general rule but I did start using Purigen (from SeaChem) on my 65G two-goldfish tank a couple of years ago to aid in keeping that tank a little cleaner between weekly PWC's. I like that it's more efficient/effective than carbon and it can be recharged with household bleach to clean and reuse it many times. I have more about Purigen in my blog on "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 3:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish I am keeping my tank inside the same room an air wisp is being used. Should I worry about the air wisp poisoning my fish? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080830-0, 08/30/2008 Tested on: 8/30/2008 6:00:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29514	From: Chris	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish

I had a stupid moment. I was thinking you were talking about an air filter for some reason. I have a ready tank that is waiting to have fish in it. The filter is a whisper filter, so carbon comes in the package. The good thing is that I don't run the wisp at night or when no one is home. I don't see a point in it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29515	From: Chris	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

What kind of bulb does your hood take? Incandecent or flourecent? Are you asking what are good brands? Floresents come in different lengths, t number types and have to be used on a fixture that is made for that type of tube. Each t number uses a differnt amount of watts and emit heat differently. I noticed that there are tubes that have different t numbers than others. If you are using a hood that uses florescents, then you need to know what kind of t number that is made for. My hood doesn't say and the tube is no help either, so I'm just gonna order from the company that made the hood. Once you know what you have, you should keep asking around. I might be the only one, but I don't agree with most other people's opinions on what is a good bulb. You do want a bulb that favors the blue spectrum. That is where the plant gets the energy for vegetative growth the most.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29516	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish

You didn't include any of the previous message so I'm not sure if you are replying to me but I did mention using carbon or more advanced chemical filtration in my reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 6:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Wisp & Fish Thanks for the reply, but wouldn't the carbon filter absorb the fragrance? I mean carbon is used to absorb oder. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080830-0, 08/30/2008 Tested on: 8/30/2008 6:57:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29517	From: mike	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: wet dry filter problem **** SOLVED *****

hey i finally finished my wet dry!!! I altered a few things at the same time so I'll never know which one was the problem of sump running dry before water could return. I made the outside box bigger so the water could flow faster and I made a bigger sump so there is more water to work with. I also used a 2" tube for syphon. I just wan ted to thank everyone who helped and all the messages I've read last year. i posted my video on YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxOQvzQWoLk --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <YoldLenny@...> wrote: > > That is one of the things I was talking about. In the event of a power > failure, you want your overflow box to lose it's siphon after pumping the > top 1/2" to 1" of water out of the main tank so the sump should have enough > of a margin of error to handle these few gallons. You can also add a float > valve cut off switch to the sump which would cut the power to the pump if > the water level reaches near the top of the sump. Then with the intake to > the sump pump being only an inch or two below the surface, if you lose > siphon for some reason, the pump will quit filling the main tank when the > water level drops below the intake. Once again, a float valve cut off > switch would stop the pump from running dry and an anti siphon valve in the > plumbing would stop the water from the plumbing from draining back into the > sump also. > > Here is the overflow box I was planning on with a 300gph rating to go with > my canister filter as the pump. > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=CR1511 > > This one seems to have the filter/pump electrical cut off switch built in if > it loses it's siphon. > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~OE1318.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 8:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wet dry filter problem > > if i start the pump with a full sump and then add more water, if the power > went out all the added water would overflow from the sump. My siphon never > breaks because the ends are always under water of the interior and exterior > box. I tried my test by taking out the trickle tower and found that my > problem is a weak siphon. This is not due to lack of hose, i have 4 hoses > with 1 inch interior diameter. i think the problem is my small interior box > not letting the water out of the siphon hose to flow up over the end of pipe > to pump. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Why would you turn the pump off.. unless you mean when you are > about to do > > maintenance? My previous reply went into the same thing as you are > thinking > > about here. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of mike > > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 5:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wet dry filter problem > > > > sorry i didn't see rest of your relpy. Last year i read every > message and > > site i could and designed my own. I'm using a stacking plactic > storage > > system on top of a tupperware type sump. Except for the one problem > i have, > > its pretty cool and I will post pics when its done, the external > skimmer is > > built into a half wall and all the pipes are hidden in wall. > > > > I think to test to see if I need a bigger sump, I'm going to fill > the filter > > to the brim once the trickling is in full effect and see how the > flow goes > > when i crank up filter. As long as i remove the same amount of > water before > > I turn pump off!! LOL > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Your returning water should be flowing in as fast as the water is > > being > > > pumped out. I'm not sure a larger sump would make a difference > > although it > > > would give you a little more margin of error but it eventually > > would lose > > > the water-flow battle also if the water isn't returning at the > same > > rate as > > > it's being pumped out. I'm not sure that clamping down the hose is > > good as > > > that will just make your pump work harder so you have to rethink > > your return > > > to make sure it can handle the volume. Is your tank > > drilled/plumbed for a > > > sump system or do you have an overflow box on the tank? You might > > have to > > > go with a smaller pump if you can't increase the returning flow > > rate... > > > depending on which would be most cost effective. > > > > > > Which site did you use for your plans... or did you come up with > > your own? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of mike > > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:01 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] wet dry filter problem > > > > > > Hi, I made my own wet dry filter and it came out very well except > > for one > > > thing. The Eheim 1200 pumps the water out quicker than it trickles > > back. I > > > had to put a hose clamp on the line to slow the flow down to half. > > Its NOT > > > that the return line is too small (1 1/2" pvc) because i've poured > > water > > > into the skimmer and it takes it quickly. Its NOT that the water > is > > slowed > > > in the medium because its not backing up and i had same problem > > with no > > > medium. > > > I think it just might be that my sump is too small, but i hace a > > space > > > problem in cabinet. > > > Has anyone had this problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080818-0, 08/18/2008 > Tested on: 8/18/2008 9:23:20 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29518	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

My hood takes flourscent, I am confused if the light is good for plants will it be good for fish..I am more concerned about my fish In a message dated 8/30/2008 7:40:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, crjm28@... writes: What kind of bulb does your hood take? Incandecent or fluorescent? Are you asking what are good brands? Florescent come in different lengths, t number types and have to be used on a fixture that is made for that type of tube. Each t number uses a differnt amount of watts and emit heat differently. I noticed that there are tubes that have different t numbers than others. If you are using a hood that uses florescent's, then you need to know what kind of t number that is made for. My hood doesn't say and the tube is no help either, so I'm just gonna order from the company that made the hood. Once you know what you have, you should keep asking around. I might be the only one, but I don't agree with most other people's opinions on what is a good bulb. You do want a bulb that favors the blue spectrum. That is where the plant gets the energy for vegetative growth the most. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

For freshwater, the lighting isn't as much of a concern for fish. Technically, sunlight would be the best thing for the fish since that is what Mother Nature provides but sunlight is terrible for fish tanks since it causes a lot of algae growth due to the higher levels of organic waste in the closed ecosystem of a fish tank. As far as your plants, if you have low-light type plants, then any kind of lighting will be OK for them. That would be the thing you need to check on. Here's a couple of links to Very Easy and Easy to grow aquatic plants, most of which do not need any kind of specialized lighting or CO2 injection, etc. The individual plant profiles will give you more details about the specific plant. If your plants are not listed on these two pages, then you may need to look at more sophistication in your lighting, etc. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> &filter_by=2 (Very Easy) http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> &filter_by=3 (Easy) A simple guideline that has been used for many years with fluorescent lighting... but isn't as accurate with all of the new types of lighting (power compacts, halogen, LED, etc.)... was 1 watt to 1.5 watts per gallon as a minimum and as high as 3 to 5 watts per gallon for more difficult plants and tanks that have CO2 injection and dosed with fertilizers, etc. I only have 1 watt per gallon on my tanks and I mainly keep easy or very easy plants and they do well with just my harder water and fish waste to supply nutrients to the plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 7:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Live Plants...take two lol My hood takes flourscent, I am confused if the light is good for plants will it be good for fish..I am more concerned about my fish In a message dated 8/30/2008 7:40:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> writes: What kind of bulb does your hood take? Incandecent or fluorescent? Are you asking what are good brands? Florescent come in different lengths, t number types and have to be used on a fixture that is made for that type of tube. Each t number uses a differnt amount of watts and emit heat differently. I noticed that there are tubes that have different t numbers than others. If you are using a hood that uses florescent's, then you need to know what kind of t number that is made for. My hood doesn't say and the tube is no help either, so I'm just gonna order from the company that made the hood. Once you know what you have, you should keep asking around. I might be the only one, but I don't agree with most other people's opinions on what is a good bulb. You do want a bulb that favors the blue spectrum. That is where the plant gets the energy for vegetative growth the most. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080830-0, 08/30/2008 Tested on: 8/30/2008 8:51:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29520	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish

Lenny, not I'm going to run any kind of air conditioner in the room with my fish since my dinosaurs live here too, and any sort of air freshener especially Glade would kill them. But I can see why one might run an air freshener in a room where there are fish tanks. Several reasons, actually. Ideally the tanks themselves don't smell but it is hard to have fish tanks and never a moisture issue. Is there any sort of an air freshener one could run? How about teh odor neutralizing sticks you put in commercial bathrooms? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish What's an air wisp? I thought a wisp was used for beating eggs, etc. LOL Ahhh... I did a quick Google and see it's a Glade's air freshener product. I do not use any kinds of aerosol products in the room where I have my tanks. If you are definitely going to keep the air wisp operating, you should run carbon or other more advanced chemical filtration media in your filter systems at all times since some of it will certainly get into your water during gas exchange that takes place on the water surface. If you go with carbon, it should be changed every couple of weeks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29521	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

The T followed by a number is the tube diameter of the fluorescent bulb, measured in 1/8th of an inch increments. A T8 has a diameter of 1", a T5 is 5/8" in diameter. I have heard, though I have no proof of this, that the smaller diameter bulbs do not last as long as the larger diameter. The real importance of the T number is to ensure you buy the correct diameter bulb for your fixture. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 7:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Live Plants...take two lol What kind of bulb does your hood take? Incandecent or flourecent? Are you asking what are good brands? Floresents come in different lengths, t number types and have to be used on a fixture that is made for that type of tube. Each t number uses a differnt amount of watts and emit heat differently. I noticed that there are tubes that have different t numbers than others. If you are using a hood that uses florescents, then you need to know what kind of t number that is made for. My hood doesn't say and the tube is no help either, so I'm just gonna order from the company that made the hood. Once you know what you have, you should keep asking around. I might be the only one, but I don't agree with most other people's opinions on what is a good bulb. You do want a bulb that favors the blue spectrum. That is where the plant gets the energy for vegetative growth the most.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29522	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Air Wisp & Fish

Anything a person can smell would certainly be a potential problem to the fish... which can be mostly alleviated by running fresh carbon and changing it on a regular basis, every few weeks. Even something we can't smell.. maybe an unscented product that still propels particles/mist into the air would still find it's way into the tank but once again, would be mostly alleviated with running fresh carbon all the time. It would probably be better to just use plain and simple air circulation to remove the moisture and any smells from the air but keeping the tanks covered tightly also goes a huge way in reducing the amount of evaporation from a tank. I cut my own plexiglass panels to cover my tanks or carefully notch out the back section of the hood on smaller tanks with hoods with built in lighting, so I don't have too many ways for evaporation to leave the tank. The water still evaporates but then it condenses on the plexiglass and/or plastic panels and drips back into the tanks. Back to the air fresheners... I guess I would analogize it to cigarette smoking, second-hand smoke, etc. Both of my parents were 2-3 pack a day smokers and I'm not dead after breathing lots of second-hand smoke for 21 years and then playing in competitive pool leagues and tournaments for 10 years, breathing lots more second-hand smoke and I'm still alive.... but I know it's not the best thing for me to be breathing all that stuff. I say the same thing about perfumes, air fresheners, scented candles, etc.... they probably won't kill us today from breathing all that stuff but common sense tells us it's not good to breathe. You just have to weigh the pluses and minuses of things when you do them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish Lenny, not I'm going to run any kind of air conditioner in the room with my fish since my dinosaurs live here too, and any sort of air freshener especially Glade would kill them. But I can see why one might run an air freshener in a room where there are fish tanks. Several reasons, actually. Ideally the tanks themselves don't smell but it is hard to have fish tanks and never a moisture issue. Is there any sort of an air freshener one could run? How about teh odor neutralizing sticks you put in commercial bathrooms? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish What's an air wisp? I thought a wisp was used for beating eggs, etc. LOL Ahhh... I did a quick Google and see it's a Glade's air freshener product. I do not use any kinds of aerosol products in the room where I have my tanks. If you are definitely going to keep the air wisp operating, you should run carbon or other more advanced chemical filtration media in your filter systems at all times since some of it will certainly get into your water during gas exchange that takes place on the water surface. If you go with carbon, it should be changed every couple of weeks. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080830-0, 08/30/2008 Tested on: 8/30/2008 9:33:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29523	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

Your fish will do fine as long as they get some kind of light during their day. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 8:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Live Plants...take two lol My hood takes flourscent, I am confused if the light is good for plants will it be good for fish..I am more concerned about my fish In a message dated 8/30/2008 7:40:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, crjm28@... writes: What kind of bulb does your hood take? Incandecent or fluorescent? Are you asking what are good brands? Florescent come in different lengths, t number types and have to be used on a fixture that is made for that type of tube. Each t number uses a differnt amount of watts and emit heat differently. I noticed that there are tubes that have different t numbers than others. If you are using a hood that uses florescent's, then you need to know what kind of t number that is made for. My hood doesn't say and the tube is no help either, so I'm just gonna order from the company that made the hood. Once you know what you have, you should keep asking around. I might be the only one, but I don't agree with most other people's opinions on what is a good bulb. You do want a bulb that favors the blue spectrum. That is where the plant gets the energy for vegetative growth the most. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29524	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: much of my substrate is green

Hi, I have some white sand substrate and live amazon plants...the majority of the sand has turned green and it continues to spread killing fish with me. I took the fish out of the tank...what is this green spreading? Ken **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29525	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: much of my substrate is green

You said "continues to spread killing fish with me" and I'll presume it's not killing you but algae should not be killing your fish either. Algae is typically nature's way of saving fish in water that might not be ideal since the algae helps to reduce the nitrogenous compounds (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) in the water, suck up CO2 and release O2 into the water during photosynthesis. Tell us more about your tank and set up. What size tank? How long has it been set up and how long have you had the sand substrate? Is it heavily planted or just a few plants? What kind of fish and how many of each and size of fish. The green is likely algae and an algae infestation is usually due to too much light and too many nutrients in the water. That being said, give us your water parameter test results... ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature, GH & KH (if you have them). Also give us your tap/source water baseline parameters. Is the green a very thin layer... more like a discoloration... or is it a thick green layer of slimy looking stuff? Prior to this, have you been stirring up your sand substrate a little on a regular basis? The sand can get compacted if you do not stir it on occasion, it can form areas of bad bacteria colonies that release dangerous gases into the water. If you can take some decent pictures of the tank and issue, that would be helpful also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] much of my substrate is green Hi, I have some white sand substrate and live amazon plants...the majority of the sand has turned green and it continues to spread killing fish with me. I took the fish out of the tank...what is this green spreading? Ken _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080830-0, 08/30/2008 Tested on: 8/30/2008 10:40:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29526	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

A cheap way is to use a hood meant for incandescent screw in bulbs. Instead of incandescents, use spiral compact florescent bulbs. GE makes a 6500K bulb 26W (100W incandescent equivalent). It's labeled "daylight" 6500K. I tripled my light output for the price of a few bulbs. My plants perked right up. Chris wrote: > What kind of bulb does your hood take? Incandecent or flourecent? > > Are you asking what are good brands? > > Floresents come in different lengths, t number types and have to be > used on a fixture that is made for that type of tube. Each t number > uses a differnt amount of watts and emit heat differently. I noticed > that there are tubes that have different t numbers than others. > > If you are using a hood that uses florescents, then you need to know > what kind of t number that is made for. My hood doesn't say and the > tube is no help either, so I'm just gonna order from the company that > made the hood. > > Once you know what you have, you should keep asking around. I might > be the only one, but I don't agree with most other people's opinions > on what is a good bulb. You do want a bulb that favors the blue > spectrum. That is where the plant gets the energy for vegetative > growth the most. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29527	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 8/30/2008
Subject: Lenny RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish

A wisk is what you use to beat eggs! =P LOL Heather -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish Lenny, not I'm going to run any kind of air conditioner in the room with my fish since my dinosaurs live here too, and any sort of air freshener especially Glade would kill them. But I can see why one might run an air freshener in a room where there are fish tanks. Several reasons, actually. Ideally the tanks themselves don't smell but it is hard to have fish tanks and never a moisture issue. Is there any sort of an air freshener one could run? How about teh odor neutralizing sticks you put in commercial bathrooms? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish What's an air wisp? I thought a wisp was used for beating eggs, etc. LOL Ahhh... I did a quick Google and see it's a Glade's air freshener product. I do not use any kinds of aerosol products in the room where I have my tanks. If you are definitely going to keep the air wisp operating, you should run carbon or other more advanced chemical filtration media in your filter systems at all times since some of it will certainly get into your water during gas exchange that takes place on the water surface. If you go with carbon, it should be changed every couple of weeks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29528	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish

Oops.. goes to show I don't spend much time in a kitchen. Heck.. I use a fork for my scrambled eggs.. and then eat them with the same fork. That method has been working fine for me since I got rid of my last ex-wife.. and less dishes to wash afterwards. LOL Actually, I started to Google it since something just didn't sound right about calling that little kitchen tool a wisp but I figured it was close enough. LOL Uh Oh Heather... you spelled it wrong too. Google says it's "Whisk" http://www.answers.com/whisk <http://www.answers.com/whisk&r=67> &r=67. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Lenny RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish A wisk is what you use to beat eggs! =P LOL Heather -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish Lenny, not I'm going to run any kind of air conditioner in the room with my fish since my dinosaurs live here too, and any sort of air freshener especially Glade would kill them. But I can see why one might run an air freshener in a room where there are fish tanks. Several reasons, actually. Ideally the tanks themselves don't smell but it is hard to have fish tanks and never a moisture issue. Is there any sort of an air freshener one could run? How about teh odor neutralizing sticks you put in commercial bathrooms? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish What's an air wisp? I thought a wisp was used for beating eggs, etc. LOL Ahhh... I did a quick Google and see it's a Glade's air freshener product. I do not use any kinds of aerosol products in the room where I have my tanks. If you are definitely going to keep the air wisp operating, you should run carbon or other more advanced chemical filtration media in your filter systems at all times since some of it will certainly get into your water during gas exchange that takes place on the water surface. If you go with carbon, it should be changed every couple of weeks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080830-0, 08/30/2008 Tested on: 8/31/2008 3:00:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29529	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish

LOL oops! I guess I did..hahaha! Damn google showing me up! Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 3:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Lenny RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish Oops.. goes to show I don't spend much time in a kitchen. Heck.. I use a fork for my scrambled eggs.. and then eat them with the same fork. That method has been working fine for me since I got rid of my last ex-wife.. and less dishes to wash afterwards. LOL Actually, I started to Google it since something just didn't sound right about calling that little kitchen tool a wisp but I figured it was close enough. LOL Uh Oh Heather... you spelled it wrong too. Google says it's "Whisk" http://www.answers.com/whisk <http://www.answers.com/whisk&r=67> &r=67. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Lenny RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish A wisk is what you use to beat eggs! =P LOL Heather -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish Lenny, not I'm going to run any kind of air conditioner in the room with my fish since my dinosaurs live here too, and any sort of air freshener especially Glade would kill them. But I can see why one might run an air freshener in a room where there are fish tanks. Several reasons, actually. Ideally the tanks themselves don't smell but it is hard to have fish tanks and never a moisture issue. Is there any sort of an air freshener one could run? How about teh odor neutralizing sticks you put in commercial bathrooms? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Air Wisp & Fish What's an air wisp? I thought a wisp was used for beating eggs, etc. LOL Ahhh... I did a quick Google and see it's a Glade's air freshener product. I do not use any kinds of aerosol products in the room where I have my tanks. If you are definitely going to keep the air wisp operating, you should run carbon or other more advanced chemical filtration media in your filter systems at all times since some of it will certainly get into your water during gas exchange that takes place on the water surface. If you go with carbon, it should be changed every couple of weeks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080830-0, 08/30/2008 Tested on: 8/31/2008 3:00:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29530	From: Alina	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Size of filter pump

Hi, Begginer question: I bought an Aquaeon aquarium kit, a 38-gal tank but after setting it up, I noticed the kit comes with an aquaeon 30 filter. Is this the wrong size? I fear I have been duped into buying a kit that in reality has too small filtration system in the 30 size. Please advise. I notice the company's next larger sized pump is 55 so ....before I go chew out the pet store folks, I thought I'd ask here. Thanks Alina in Florida

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29531	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Size of filter pump

Generally speaking, the filter/pump sizes recommended by the manufacturers are not sufficient and you'll likely have to add a second filter system anyhow. It's better to have two smaller filters than one large filter as it gives you redundancy in the event one of the filters ever breaks. If you do buy a second filter system, consider getting an AquaClear HOB (hang on back) as the AC HOB's are one of the best out there and are actually lower priced than similar systems from other brands. Same with heaters... two 1/2 sized heaters instead of one full sized heater for redundancy. I have a blog article where I did an experiment on what can happen to a fish tank if a full-sized heater fails in the stuck on or stuck off position.... it ain't pretty! What are the dimensions of your 38G and what kind of fish stocking do you plan? For properly stocked tropical fish tanks (meaning not overstocked), 5x/hour turnover is a good place to be unless you have tropical fish that do not like a lot of water flow. Torpedo shaped stream-lined fish normally like moving waters where big, bulky, flat-bodied fish or fish with fancy flowing fins normally don't. For goldfish, which you shouldn't really keep in a 38G anyhow, it's good to have at least 10X/hour of filtration as goldfish really need to be in BIG tanks but most of us do not have them in the proper sized tanks so we have to compensate with added filtration. For your 38G tank with a tropical fish community, I'd have two filter systems totaling 190 gph (gallons per hour) of filtration. Set up one of them with the intake deep in the tank and the other one with the intake as shallow as possible. Since you are a beginner, go to my blog on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and take one or both of the free online tutorials that will also walk you through all of the other beginner things you need to know. If you haven't gotten fish yet, it's best to "Fishless Cycle" the tank using plain ammonia. If you already have fish, you are stuck with "Cycling With Fish". I have links to longer articles on both of those topics near the top of the A to Z page. You can still go chew out the pet store employees though... I'm sure they gave you tons of other bad advice. LOL I did a poll several years ago and 90% of respondents said their pet store employees gave them bad advice. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 8:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Size of filter pump Hi, Begginer question: I bought an Aquaeon aquarium kit, a 38-gal tank but after setting it up, I noticed the kit comes with an aquaeon 30 filter. Is this the wrong size? I fear I have been duped into buying a kit that in reality has too small filtration system in the 30 size. Please advise. I notice the company's next larger sized pump is 55 so ....before I go chew out the pet store folks, I thought I'd ask here. Thanks Alina in Florida _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080830-0, 08/30/2008 Tested on: 8/31/2008 9:09:56 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29532	From: Tricia Wilkerson	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Future project thought.... was hoping for some input

I am planning in the future to get a 150 gallon+ and have been thinking about the set up.... it will be for tropical ( live bearers, corys, ottos, and dojos... most of which I already have in a 55 gallon for a year now) I am planning to create a jvm wall in most likely 1 ft sections, and then a few other plants placed here and there and driftwood as well as a few other furnishing (a cave or 2 and 1 or 2 other decor types) but I am debating on whether I want to use eco complete for the substrate or no substrate at all and just put the plants in smallish terra cotta pots with their substrate. Cleaning wise it would be a snap w/o the substrate, but would the fish and plants be do well? Any thoughts? TIA ********************************************** MM & MP, '73 Tricia, KG6PNC ********************************************* great free site to play at: http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=trycya P.S. If you are looking for a premium Neopets referral email me with your Neopet name and I will send ya one. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29533	From: Chris	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

T5s last longer than t12 and have more output with lower wattage. They also put out less heat than t12s do. I don't know the differences between and T8s.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29534	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Future project thought.... was hoping for some input

If you are planning on having root plants, then using the eco-complete is a good choice... whether in clay pots or as a full substrate. If you are definitely ONLY going to have a few root plants, then the clay pots would be OK but you would still want at least 1/2" to 1" of some kind of substrate across the rest of the tank. I have that type of set up in my 65G goldfish tank so the plants do well in the pots and yet the gravel is easy to clean since it's not 2" to 3" deep. Many goldfish keepers have tried to go with a bare bottom and many go back to having at least a thin layer of substrate as it helps hide the detritus between cleanings and the bare bottom seems to cause skin/fin issues for bottom dwellers. Further, every little piece of poop will be glaring out at you from the bare bottom and you'll find yourself constantly wanting to vacuum up the poop when it's not really a major issue if it's vacuumed out of the thin layer of substrate on a weekly to bi-weekly basis (depending on the bioload of the tank) since it would not have broken down very much in that time period. Also... you might want to consider a sand substrate or some other type of smaller substrate that is favorable to your bottom dwellers. If I'm not mistaken, the loaches like to burrow in a sandy bottom. Yep, I just double checked and this good profile on them confirms that they prefer a sandy substrate. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/weather-loach-misgurnis-anguillicaudatu s Did you know that Dojo's are cold/cool water fish and prefer temps in the 50's to 70's? I'm not sure they are your best mix with tropical's unless you have tropical type fish that also prefer water temps in the 70's. Here's a list of other cool/cold water fish that many folks think are tropical fish... including some barbs, tetras, danios, guppies, native fish, etc. http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tricia Wilkerson Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 11:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Future project thought.... was hoping for some input I am planning in the future to get a 150 gallon+ and have been thinking about the set up.... it will be for tropical ( live bearers, corys, ottos, and dojos... most of which I already have in a 55 gallon for a year now) I am planning to create a jvm wall in most likely 1 ft sections, and then a few other plants placed here and there and driftwood as well as a few other furnishing (a cave or 2 and 1 or 2 other decor types) but I am debating on whether I want to use eco complete for the substrate or no substrate at all and just put the plants in smallish terra cotta pots with their substrate. Cleaning wise it would be a snap w/o the substrate, but would the fish and plants be do well? Any thoughts? TIA ********************************************** MM & MP, '73 Tricia, KG6PNC ********************************************* great free site to play at: http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=trycya <http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=trycya> P.S. If you are looking for a premium Neopets referral email me with your Neopet name and I will send ya one. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080831-0, 08/31/2008 Tested on: 8/31/2008 4:20:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29535	From: Chris	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Future project thought.... was hoping for some input

These beneficial bacteria that convert fish waste to natural food, is that a differnt kind of bacteria than nitrofying bacteria? Is this the kind of bacteria that will eventually find itsway into the tank on its own?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29536	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Future project thought.... was hoping for some input

Beneficial bacteria and nitrifying bacteria are the same, but do not convert fish waste into natural food unless you mean natural plant food, LOL. Beneficial bacteria convert ammonia (fish waste) into nitrites and a second type of beneficial bacteria convert nitrites into nitrates. Nitrates can be plant food. Yes it will eventually grow on it’s own in the tank as long as ammonia is provided, preferably not by the fish. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 6:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Future project thought.... was hoping for some input These beneficial bacteria that convert fish waste to natural food, is that a differnt kind of bacteria than nitrofying bacteria? Is this the kind of bacteria that will eventually find itsway into the tank on its own? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29537	From: Chris	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants...take two lol

I don't know how much this link helps. I kinda stumbled upon it. http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/lighting.php

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29538	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: Future project thought.... was hoping for some input

Just so we're on the same page, all of the fish waste (poop) is not converted to "natural food" but it is broken down by different bacteria than the nitrifying bacteria and then the waste further decays, releasing ammonia and other nitrogenous compounds, various organic compounds, CO2, carbonic acid, etc. and many of these compounds do become "natural foods" for other bacteria like the nitrifying bacteria and also "natural foods" for the plants. Some of the decayed waste is never used and must be siphoned out of the gravel on a regular basis (weekly or bi-weekly) and cleaned out of the filter media on a regular basis also. Otherwise, the gravel and filter media would build up mulm which is not good for a tank. Also, some of the decaying waste would go into solution in the water and not get filtered out by the mechanical filter media. This is called DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) and some of the DOC's will be filtered out by chemical filtration like carbon or more advanced products like Purigen but even those will not remove ALL DOC's which is why we do regular PWC's (25% partial water changes). Of course, the fish urine which is high in ammonia content (ever smell a cat litter box?) is more easily handled by the nitrifying bacteria but there are still things like urea and other waste compounds in the urine that are not filtered out by our rather simple filtration systems... once again, the reason for frequent PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance. Yes, most of the beneficial and not-so-beneficial bacteria will find their way into your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Future project thought.... was hoping for some input These beneficial bacteria that convert fish waste to natural food, is that a differnt kind of bacteria than nitrofying bacteria? Is this the kind of bacteria that will eventually find itsway into the tank on its own? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080831-0, 08/31/2008 Tested on: 8/31/2008 8:07:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29539	From: chuck whhitmarsh	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: for sale

I have a 90 gallon tank with overflow and sump w/pump it is salt water I need to sell will take any reasonable offers. Thank chuck

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29540	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: for sale

I'm not interested but you should give your location... City and State... so folks will know where you are. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chuck whhitmarsh Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 8:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] for sale I have a 90 gallon tank with overflow and sump w/pump it is salt water I need to sell will take any reasonable offers. Thank chuck _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080831-0, 08/31/2008 Tested on: 8/31/2008 9:04:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29541	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: for sale

can it be used for fresh water? In a message dated 8/31/2008 10:03:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, chuckwhitmarsh@... writes: I have a 90 gallon tank with overflow and sump w/pump it is salt water I need to sell will take any reasonable offers. Thank chuck **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29542	From: chuck whhitmarsh	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: for sale

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm not interested but you should give your location... City and State... so > folks will know where you are. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of chuck whhitmarsh > Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 8:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] for sale > > I have a 90 gallon tank with overflow and sump w/pump it is salt water I > need to sell will take any reasonable offers. Thank chuck > > > sorry rushed Iam in angier nc. > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080831-0, 08/31/2008 > Tested on: 8/31/2008 9:04:25 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29543	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2008
Subject: Re: for sale

Yes, SW tanks can be converted to FW and vice versa but you have to be very careful and know the history of a FW tank being converted to SW as many meds (like copper based or meds that turned your silicone blue or green, etc.) used in FW can leach into the silicone and then leach back out in SW and be toxic to SW fish and invertebrates. It's best to NOT convert FW to SW unless you owned the FW tank and know it's history. Chuck replied in a follow-up message and said he lives in Angier, NC. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grdnfan243@... Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] for sale can it be used for fresh water? In a message dated 8/31/2008 10:03:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, chuckwhitmarsh@... <mailto:chuckwhitmarsh%40yahoo.com> writes: I have a 90 gallon tank with overflow and sump w/pump it is salt water I need to sell will take any reasonable offers. Thank chuck _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080831-0, 08/31/2008 Tested on: 8/31/2008 10:21:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29544	From: babsdvs	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: OT - Gustav

Good luck Lenny and any others riding out the storm. I hope all of you and your fish make it safely through. Barbara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29545	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: for sale

Where are you located? Heather -----Original Message----- From: chuck whhitmarsh <chuckwhitmarsh@...> Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 8:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] for sale I have a 90 gallon tank with overflow and sump w/pump it is salt water I need to sell will take any reasonable offers. Thank chuck [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29546	From: cin	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: GUSTAV

Good luck guys hope all goes well for you our prayers are with you Cheers Cin

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29547	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: for sale

ok thank you I live in Michigan In a message dated 8/31/2008 11:21:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Yes, SW tanks can be converted to FW and vice versa but you have to be very careful and know the history of a FW tank being converted to SW as many meds (like copper based or meds that turned your silicone blue or green, etc.) used in FW can leach into the silicone and then leach back out in SW and be toxic to SW fish and invertebrates. It's best to NOT convert FW to SW unless you owned the FW tank and know it's history. Chuck replied in a follow-up message and said he lives in Angier, NC. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:grdnfan243@...) Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 9:24 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] for sale can it be used for fresh water? In a message dated 8/31/2008 10:03:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _chuckwhitmarsh@chuckwhit_ (mailto:chuckwhitmarsh@...) <mailto:chuckwhitmamailto:chuckmai> writes: I have a 90 gallon tank with overflow and sump w/pump it is salt water I need to sell will take any reasonable offers. Thank chuck _____ avast! Antivirus <_http://www.avast.htt_ (http://www.avast.com/) > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080831-0, 08/31/2008 Tested on: 8/31/2008 10:21:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29548	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: OT - Gustav

Think Lenny and the rest are going to be fine. Hurricane has lost strength, hit land, and is moving much faster than expected, though it may still slow down. It appears the surge is going to hit from the Missippi River to the Louisiana border. Now, of course, last time around the city came through the storm just fine but succumbed to its dikes a day or two later, and in one case a Mississippi River boat went through a dike. Took a long time but I finally verified that that happened. And the worst of the rain hasn't got there yet. We''ll see. But it doesn't seem to be the deluge. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 5:05 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - Gustav Good luck Lenny and any others riding out the storm. I hope all of you and your fish make it safely through. Barbara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29549	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: 500 Gallon DIY Outside Aquarium

Hey all. Thought you'd get a kick out of my aquarium project: http://www.wizardscave.com/aquarium.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29550	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?

I personally don't believe in gravel cleaning. There are both nitrafying and nitrifying bacteria that live down there. As long as the top looks clean, I wouldn't worry about it. Fish don't live in pristine houses, they live in nature...........z

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29551	From: lizkakot	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Those who live in the Santa Cruz area

I would like to know if there is a fish store that you would recommend. I have bought guppies from pet emporium, they contaminated my whole tank with Ick and died. Pet smart isn't much better either, they constantly have dead fish in there, and sometimes their smaller fish are in tanks with other fish bullies. Any other options? I just want to know if anyone had any success with the places in the area. I'm looking to buy an angel fish and a few plants, but I don't want to drive far because it's too stressful for me and the fish. Thanks. BTW: Any plants out there that the goldfish wont eat/dig up?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29552	From: Margie	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: OT - Gustav

We are in the Houston area and news is saying tomorrow we will get wind and rain. But fur sure not what we thought it would be.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 9/1/2008 9:33:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - Gustav Think Lenny and the rest are going to be fine. Hurricane has lost strength, hit land, and is moving much faster than expected, though it may still slow down. It appears the surge is going to hit from the Missippi River to the Louisiana border. Now, of course, last time around the city came through the storm just fine but succumbed to its dikes a day or two later, and in one case a Mississippi River boat went through a dike. Took a long time but I finally verified that that happened. And the worst of the rain hasn't got there yet. We''ll see. But it doesn't seem to be the deluge. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 5:05 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - Gustav Good luck Lenny and any others riding out the storm. I hope all of you and your fish make it safely through. Barbara ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29553	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: OT - Gustav

I meant to say that hte surge is expected to hit from the Missippi River to the Texas-Louisiana border. Louisiana has two borders and everyone's eyes are on the border with Missippi. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - Gustav We are in the Houston area and news is saying tomorrow we will get wind and rain. But fur sure not what we thought it would be.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 9/1/2008 9:33:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - Gustav Think Lenny and the rest are going to be fine. Hurricane has lost strength, hit land, and is moving much faster than expected, though it may still slow down. It appears the surge is going to hit from the Missippi River to the Louisiana border. Now, of course, last time around the city came through the storm just fine but succumbed to its dikes a day or two later, and in one case a Mississippi River boat went through a dike. Took a long time but I finally verified that that happened. And the worst of the rain hasn't got there yet. We''ll see. But it doesn't seem to be the deluge. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 5:05 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - Gustav Good luck Lenny and any others riding out the storm. I hope all of you and your fish make it safely through. Barbara ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29554	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: angelfish problem

about a week ago i purchased 5 angelfish, and do to lack of room I was unable to quarantine them. Everything was fine for about a week now one kinda keeps himself away from the group and stays in the back corner of the tank, not only that but he is breathing rather rapidly. He is still eating and he comes out when I approach the tank but, I have had this problem with angels before and I want to nip this in the bud before it spreads to the other angels.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29555	From: Margie	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Those who live in the Santa Cruz area

I will say our Pet's Mart has healthy looking tanks, but they also just remodeled it for the pet hotel. But they still have young adults giving advice like experts. With out going in to Houston (we are in Pasadena) this is all we have.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: lizkakot Date: 9/1/2008 9:44:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Those who live in the Santa Cruz area I would like to know if there is a fish store that you would recommend. I have bought guppies from pet emporium, they contaminated my whole tank with Ick and died. Pet smart isn't much better either, they constantly have dead fish in there, and sometimes their smaller fish are in tanks with other fish bullies. Any other options? I just want to know if anyone had any success with the places in the area. I'm looking to buy an angel fish and a few plants, but I don't want to drive far because it's too stressful for me and the fish. Thanks. BTW: Any plants out there that the goldfish wont eat/dig up? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29556	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?

Hans, Gravel cleaning is important to good upkeep of your aquarium. It is true that you will find bacteria living on the gravel, but cleaning 1/4 to 1/3 of the gravel per water change will not affect the capability of the tank to process ammonia down to nitrate. Also a good gravel cleaning will remove the detritus that finds its way into the gravel to eventually be processed by anaerobic bacteria and eventually lead to the escape of hydrogen sulfide gas and other noxious chemicals that can be harmful to your fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hans Brost Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gravel Cleaning? I personally don't believe in gravel cleaning. There are both nitrafying and nitrifying bacteria that live down there. As long as the top looks clean, I wouldn't worry about it. Fish don't live in pristine houses, they live in nature...........z ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29557	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: angelfish problem

VA: It sounds like you put them into a tank with other fish. How big is the tank, how many of what other fish, and how long has the tank been set up? Also it would really help if you can tell us the ph, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels of the tank. Alot of these things are water quality issues, and if the fish are sick it may have started as a water quality issue. Often fixing the water quality fixes the fish. A quarantine tank needn't be fancy or professional; for one sick angelfish a gallon jar (pickles come in large glass jars, and tehy even have lids) with an airstone ought to do. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:09 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] angelfish problem about a week ago i purchased 5 angelfish, and do to lack of room I was unable to quarantine them. Everything was fine for about a week now one kinda keeps himself away from the group and stays in the back corner of the tank, not only that but he is breathing rather rapidly. He is still eating and he comes out when I approach the tank but, I have had this problem with angels before and I want to nip this in the bud before it spreads to the other angels.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29558	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: angelfish problem

Please give your water parameters. As he is still eating, feed all of them with a medicated (anti-parasitic, not anti-bacterial) food, and raise the temperature to 86 o to boost their immune system. This may be precluded by your need to perform a PWC (partial water change), depending on the results of your water tests. I suspect (but can't yet confirm) that this may be an onset of internal Hexamita, but without any showing of definite symptoms, I would hesitate to suggest a treament. Still, this one Angel's behavior of going into a cornor is suspect. If this behavior included going into a rear corner, facing into that corner and refusing to eat, I would say definitely that this is a case of Heximita (internal parasites). If you do not want to take a chance that it is (and wait too long), and prefer to initiate treatment for it immediately, then do first perform at least a 1/3 water change (regardless of any possible negative test results); if your test results are indicating elevated levels of ammonia and/or nitrite, then change a sufficient amount of water to lower these levels and observe this fish's behavior thereafter. If this behavior still persists, and you prefer to start a medicinal treatment for the strong possibility of this being Hexamita, as a precautionary measure, such a treatment would not (or should not) be looked upon as being unneedingly reckless in the care of these fish as having the possibility of being unnecessary, especially when considering the unknown source of these fish. Many (possibly, most) Angelfish carry such parasites with them in a symbiotic relationship (even though not at all beneficial to Angelfish), which, under normal circumstances, do not get out of control as a healthy fish's immune system keeps this in check. An overly stressed fish will lose some of its immunity as it is weakened. It is not an unusual course to take when acquiring Angelfish from an unknown source as, with the distinct possiblity of them carrying this, its prudent to lead them through a treatment for it as a prophylactic for it. This treatment consists of raising the temperature to 92 o F (no more, no,less), after first doping a partial water change and ensuring your nitrogenous waste is not elevated. To each 10 gallons, add one tablet of Hex-Out (by Aquarium Products) and one tablet of Clout (by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals) -- first dissolved in about 25 drops (1/2 tsp.) of tepid water to which 1 measure of powdered Metronidazole (by SeaChem) is added. Note, in the place of SeaChem's Metronidazole, you may use Jungle Lab's Internal Parasite Guard (as per their directions), along with the first two meds. After the 2nd day, do a 25% water change and re-dose the medications. After the following 2 days, make another 25% water change and re-dose the meds again. Water changes should be very near (but never more) than that at which you're treating the fish. If it makes it easier to do water changes at a lower temperature, you may temporarily allow the temperature to slowly drop to 86 o to make these changes, adding the medications only when the temperature again reaches 92 o, as they will have little effect on this disease otherwise. As this may or may not eliminate all of this disease, depending on many factors (the initial severity of the disease, the initial state of immunity of the fish, etc.), it is often recommended to offer a second treatment of this same regimen, starting with a 50% water change before the second round of medication and ending (two days after the 3rd dose) with a 75% water change. This second treatment may not be necessary depending whether the fish appears to fully recouperate, but they should be carefully observed afterwards. If not fully treated, it can relapse in 4 to 6 weeks. To further prevent a relapse of Hexamita with your present fish, its a good idea to feed them the anti-parasite food every 21 days (for a period of 3 days), if its suspected. Any future introductions should ALWAYS be quarantined. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29559	From: Lenny Vasbinder	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav

Thanks for the well wishes. Gustav did NOT make a direct hit on New Orleans or the suburb where I live in Metairie, which borders the west side of New Orleans. We are getting about 70 mph gusts but then as the feeder bands swing by, things will clear up for a while. There hasn't been any major raining and the last time I checked the large drainage canal level an hour ago, they were still very low so our new pumping stations are doing their jobs. One of my neighbors who did not board up or even tape up his windows does have a blown out kitchen window but other than that, I haven't seen any other damage in my immediate area. We lost power around 6:45 a.m. CST (expected... which is why I have a generator) so it's been off around 6 hours so far. I fired up my generator around 9 a.m. just to run the window A/C unit (that I bought just for use during hurricanes.. lol) for a couple of hours, charge up all my UPS's, run the refrigerator for a couple of hours, recharge batteries, etc.... oh yeah.. and to get online for a little while. I'll probably shut it down in a couple of hours until it's time for bed and then fire it up again to sleep in air conditioned comfort. The inside house temp hasn't gotten over 80F and the room where I have the A/C unit is really cool and comfy, so the fish are OK and I am running my tanks filters full time when the generator is on and then for five minutes every hour off of the UPS's when the generator is off. The worst of Gustav is over for my area and they say by 6:00 p.m. (six hours from now), we'll be back to normal rainy weather and then Entergy can start fixing the power lines and get our power back on. Gustav is like a big thunderstorm compared to Katrina... at least for my area. For the areas in Southern Louisiana that took the brunt of things, they'll need all of our hopes, prayers, help and DONATIONS of money, clothing, etc. in the coming days, weeks and months. I'll post again later this evening. Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny.blogspot.com On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Dana Rasmussen <danamr@...> wrote: > Keep your head down man. Keep safe. > I know you are planning to try to ride this out, good luck to you and your > fish. And don't feel bad if you decided to retreat. As a old Brit general > said: "He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day". No > disgrace. > Let us know you made it ok when you can. > -- > Dana > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29560	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav

Good ol' Yankee! Let us know how things are in southern Louisiana and what areas take the brunt of the storm. They've spent the day excitedly chattered about more routine storm stuff on the Weather Channel. But the storm didn't even get to western Louisiana yet, did it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny Vasbinder" <GoldLenny@...> To: "Dana Rasmussen" <danamr@...>; <goldfish@yahoogroups.com>; <ponds-koi@yahoogroups.com>; <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 12:44 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gustav Thanks for the well wishes. Gustav did NOT make a direct hit on New Orleans or the suburb where I live in Metairie, which borders the west side of New Orleans. We are getting about 70 mph gusts but then as the feeder bands swing by, things will clear up for a while. There hasn't been any major raining and the last time I checked the large drainage canal level an hour ago, they were still very low so our new pumping stations are doing their jobs. One of my neighbors who did not board up or even tape up his windows does have a blown out kitchen window but other than that, I haven't seen any other damage in my immediate area. We lost power around 6:45 a.m. CST (expected... which is why I have a generator) so it's been off around 6 hours so far. I fired up my generator around 9 a.m. just to run the window A/C unit (that I bought just for use during hurricanes.. lol) for a couple of hours, charge up all my UPS's, run the refrigerator for a couple of hours, recharge batteries, etc.... oh yeah.. and to get online for a little while. I'll probably shut it down in a couple of hours until it's time for bed and then fire it up again to sleep in air conditioned comfort. The inside house temp hasn't gotten over 80F and the room where I have the A/C unit is really cool and comfy, so the fish are OK and I am running my tanks filters full time when the generator is on and then for five minutes every hour off of the UPS's when the generator is off. The worst of Gustav is over for my area and they say by 6:00 p.m. (six hours from now), we'll be back to normal rainy weather and then Entergy can start fixing the power lines and get our power back on. Gustav is like a big thunderstorm compared to Katrina... at least for my area. For the areas in Southern Louisiana that took the brunt of things, they'll need all of our hopes, prayers, help and DONATIONS of money, clothing, etc. in the coming days, weeks and months. I'll post again later this evening. Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny.blogspot.com On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Dana Rasmussen <danamr@...> wrote: > Keep your head down man. Keep safe. > I know you are planning to try to ride this out, good luck to you and your > fish. And don't feel bad if you decided to retreat. As a old Brit general > said: "He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day". No > disgrace. > Let us know you made it ok when you can. > -- > Dana > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29561	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav

Lenny, I'd been wondering how you (and your fish) were holding up during this storm. Earlier today, the national weather reports indicated that 10's of thousands of residents in and around New Orleans had lost power. Had my concerns for you as I didn't know if you were one of them, although more recently I noticed your postings. Glad to hear you have a generator, which saves the day, and I see by your current post that water levels are still low. Hang in there! Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29562	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel

I don't know what the clarifiers are made of for fish tanks, but I use them in my hot tub, and that is a polycarbonate that attracts the particles in the water and causes them to clump together so they fall to the bottom where the filter (or hose when you do a water change) picks up the particles to remove them. I can't imagine that being very good for the fish. I don't use any chemicals at all in my tanks.they are totally natural. I have a lot of plants to eat up the wastes.even to the extent of having pothos in my HOB emperor filters to help in the cleanup. I am eventually going to get a bunch of bamboo to put in them as well. One of my plans is to create a larger reservoir that will connect the 2 filters and put plants in that so then I will not only have the filter media, but also a great plant filter that will also add a lot of beauty to the tank. I usually change the water out about once a month (I do a 25% change). It remains crystal clear and I have very happy fish. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Remember that using too many chemicals in your fishes water is kind of like smoking cigarettes or breathing non-natural stuff for us humans. It may not kill you right away but it will cause health issues, etc. Since fish breathe by filtering water through their gills, any unnecessary chemicals added to the water is something the fish have to breath... unnecessarily. Things like aloe, clumping agents, etc., are not things found in nature so I try like heck to avoid them in my tanks. I fully understand having to use a dechlor product but other than that, most other chemicals should be avoided, unless medically necessary. Things like algae and particulates in the water are things that are found in most natural waterways (maybe a crystal clear mountain stream might be the exception... unless someone relieved themselves upstream. lol). Like I said in an earlier post, there are filter media for most normal filter systems and even specialty filter systems (Diatom filters and UV lights) that will make your water nearly crystal clear without the use of chemicals. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 2:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Well, the stuff I use hasn't killed my fish yet. I've used aqueon water clarifier, and kent freshwater proclear. The second works better. Atleast it clumps the stuff better. The company warned me that freshwater Kent will kill some salt water organizing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Dora, What do you mean by "add something to clump the fog"? I know that some pet stores sell chemical products that supposedly will clump particulates that might be suspended in the water so that the filter media will catch it but I've also read where these chemicals can cause gill issues for many fish as the water gets filtered through a fishes gills for the fish to get O2 from the water and those clumping chemicals can also clump up in a fishes gills. A better solution would be to add a layer of micro filtering floss pad that will catch the smaller particles that might make it through a less dense filter media. Micro filter floss pads work best with canister filter systems where the water cannot pass over the filter like it can with a HOB filter system. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 6:53 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Actually, come to think of it, so do I. If you find the water gets very mucky, you can add something to clump the fog, prepare some more water, wait until the next day and do it over again. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 5:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel Leave them in the original tank. We do this every week when we clean the gravel. _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080830-0, 08/30/2008 Tested on: 8/30/2008 5:45:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29563	From: Lenny Vasbinder	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: How long can I keep my fish in a bucket while cleaning gravel

Check back to the first time you posted this question. Several of us already answered you in detail. Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny.blogspot.com P.S. - Gustav has come and mostly gone and me and the tanks all made it again. Running on a generator right now for 6 hour shifts twice a day and sharing the generator with my less prepared neighbors.. lol.. I think I can run for President next... at least in my neighborhood! On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 2:44 PM, vivian bradish <viv32117@...> wrote: > When I do the gravel cleaning, I am going to put the fish in a new 5 > gallon bucket. How long can I keep them in there before the oxygen > runs out? I have 20 fish. > > Thanks, > Viv > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29564	From: schroedel2003	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: need advise on skimmer.....

I have posted some pictures to show and ask for advise on a skimmer to fit in the space of this uni-tank i am going to set up at work.I assume it goes in the space on the right.if you notice the space is narrow. I do not know what skimmer to get or that will fit in there.I have never set up a tank like this and am clueless.Any help would be great.I put picts in photo album "jon's stuff" Jon in California

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29565	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: angelfish problem

As it would appear after doing my weekly water change (30%) that my nitrate and nitrite levels are a little high. So with that said I will do another one and see if this brings the levels down. I have been overfeeding slightly lately do to time restrictions (no excuses.) But, thanks for the answers guys I appreciated them.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29566	From: Chris	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: My Quarantein Tank

I'm getting ready to start adding fish to my 20 gallon and before I make additions to my fish populations I need to set up a quarentine tank. I will be using a 10 gal tank for that, and am hopping to use an old 20 gallon whisper for filtration. Is that too much filtration for the size of tank I will be using?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29567	From: Chris	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Dismanteling An Old Tank

I have 2 broken 10 gallons that I want to make into one 10 gal. How do you remove the sealant?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29568	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: My Quarantein Tank

For filtration, you would be better served to use a sponge filter that can be kept running in your main tank until it is needed for the quarantine tank. Then you can place the sponge into the newly filled quarantine tank and have instant biological filtration. The problem with the filter you propose is that it like will provide too much current for a sick fish, and that it will not provide biological filtration immediately. The fact of the matter is that though the fish may not excrete too much ammonia, relatively speaking, it will excrete ammonia, and then your cycle will start at the beginning, as opposed to the sponge filter which already has the bacteria you need, and will immediately start processing the ammonia and the subsequent nitrite. Another factor with the sponge filter is that you can control the amount of water flow by adjusting the air flow supplied to the filter. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Quarantein Tank I'm getting ready to start adding fish to my 20 gallon and before I make additions to my fish populations I need to set up a quarentine tank. I will be using a 10 gal tank for that, and am hopping to use an old 20 gallon whisper for filtration. Is that too much filtration for the size of tank I will be using?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29569	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

I use single edge razor blades Grey ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: crjm28@... Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 20:50:28 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank I have 2 broken 10 gallons that I want to make into one 10 gal. How do you remove the sealant? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29570	From: jedi_n_dc	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Plants for a shady pond?

The trees have finally won. My koi pond now no longer sees sunlight because of these massive cherry trees in my back yard. The fish are fine, but I'd like to have some plants in the pond. The lotus plants and the water lettuce are all gone. I'll take anything - above or below water - just SOMETHING other than a giant black swimming pool with koi wandering around begging for food. (Yes, they're getting fed. They're practically pets now.) There is such a thing as 'too clean.' The pond looks more like an aquarium now.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29571	From: Lenny Vasbinder	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav

WOOO HOOO... our power just came back on so it was only off for 13 hours... Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny.blogspot.com On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Dana Rasmussen <danamr@...> wrote: > > The worst of Gustav is over for my area and they say by 6:00 p.m. (six > hours > > from now), we'll be back to normal rainy weather and then Entergy can > start > > fixing the power lines and get our power back on. Gustav is like a big > > thunderstorm compared to Katrina... at least for my area. > That's what we were hearing, too, but it's great to hear from you directly. > I have never meet you in person, but it's still a relief to hear you are > fine. > -- > Dana > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29572	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav

Congrats! Bet you have been thankful for the generator! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny Vasbinder Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 8:43 PM To: Dana Rasmussen; gold-fish@...; aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com; ponds-koi@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gustav WOOO HOOO... our power just came back on so it was only off for 13 hours... Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Dana Rasmussen <danamr@gmail. <mailto:danamr%40gmail.com> com> wrote: > > The worst of Gustav is over for my area and they say by 6:00 p.m. (six > hours > > from now), we'll be back to normal rainy weather and then Entergy can > start > > fixing the power lines and get our power back on. Gustav is like a big > > thunderstorm compared to Katrina... at least for my area. > That's what we were hearing, too, but it's great to hear from you directly. > I have never meet you in person, but it's still a relief to hear you are > fine. > -- > Dana > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: OT - Gustav

Dora, It wasn't our dikes that failed, it was our levees. As far as I know, all of the dikes down in the French Quarter (one of the highest per capita rates of the gay community, next to San Francisco) made it through fine. LOL I think I posted already but our power came back on about an hour ago so all is pretty good in my area. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - Gustav Think Lenny and the rest are going to be fine. Hurricane has lost strength, hit land, and is moving much faster than expected, though it may still slow down. It appears the surge is going to hit from the Missippi River to the Louisiana border. Now, of course, last time around the city came through the storm just fine but succumbed to its dikes a day or two later, and in one case a Mississippi River boat went through a dike. Took a long time but I finally verified that that happened. And the worst of the rain hasn't got there yet. We''ll see. But it doesn't seem to be the deluge. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "babsdvs" <Maxmillionmaxcat@... <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 5:05 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - Gustav Good luck Lenny and any others riding out the storm. I hope all of you and your fish make it safely through. Barbara _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080901-0, 09/01/2008 Tested on: 9/1/2008 8:50:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: 500 Gallon DIY Outside Aquarium

Is this really yours? I remember seeing this website 4-5 years ago and have referred others to it many times over the years for ideas on designing their own DIY BIG tank and chiller system. Are you just new to this group/forum? If yes, welcome to the group. Very nice outdoor aquarium. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hans Brost Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 500 Gallon DIY Outside Aquarium Hey all. Thought you'd get a kick out of my aquarium project: http://www.wizardscave.com/aquarium.html <http://www.wizardscave.com/aquarium.html> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080901-0, 09/01/2008 Tested on: 9/1/2008 8:55:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29575	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Plants for a shady pond?

Everything I can think of, off the top of my head, requires at least some direct sunlight during the day. I cannot look anything up right now because my books are at home, and I am not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jedi_n_dc Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 8:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants for a shady pond? The trees have finally won. My koi pond now no longer sees sunlight because of these massive cherry trees in my back yard. The fish are fine, but I'd like to have some plants in the pond. The lotus plants and the water lettuce are all gone. I'll take anything - above or below water - just SOMETHING other than a giant black swimming pool with koi wandering around begging for food. (Yes, they're getting fed. They're practically pets now.) There is such a thing as 'too clean.' The pond looks more like an aquarium now. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29576	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav

Wow! That was fast. Alright! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny Vasbinder" <GoldLenny@...> To: "Dana Rasmussen" <danamr@...>; <gold-fish@...>; <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com>; <ponds-koi@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 7:43 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gustav WOOO HOOO... our power just came back on so it was only off for 13 hours... Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny.blogspot.com On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Dana Rasmussen <danamr@...> wrote: > > The worst of Gustav is over for my area and they say by 6:00 p.m. (six > hours > > from now), we'll be back to normal rainy weather and then Entergy can > start > > fixing the power lines and get our power back on. Gustav is like a big > > thunderstorm compared to Katrina... at least for my area. > That's what we were hearing, too, but it's great to hear from you > directly. > I have never meet you in person, but it's still a relief to hear you are > fine. > -- > Dana > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29577	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

As I recall, with a razor blade. I believe you have to make sure the surface is bare and clean before you put new sealant on. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank I have 2 broken 10 gallons that I want to make into one 10 gal. How do you remove the sealant? ------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29578	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav

Lenny, So all those voodoo incantations and ceremonies you have been participating in all week have come to your aid? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny Vasbinder Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 8:43 PM To: Dana Rasmussen; gold-fish@...; aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com; ponds-koi@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gustav WOOO HOOO... our power just came back on so it was only off for 13 hours... Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny.blogspot.com On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Dana Rasmussen <danamr@...> wrote: > > The worst of Gustav is over for my area and they say by 6:00 p.m. (six > hours > > from now), we'll be back to normal rainy weather and then Entergy can > start > > fixing the power lines and get our power back on. Gustav is like a big > > thunderstorm compared to Katrina... at least for my area. > That's what we were hearing, too, but it's great to hear from you directly. > I have never meet you in person, but it's still a relief to hear you are > fine. > -- > Dana > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29579	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: My Quarantein Tank

If it's just a hospital tank for one sick fish, can''t you just do frequent large water changes? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 7:31 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Quarantein Tank For filtration, you would be better served to use a sponge filter that can be kept running in your main tank until it is needed for the quarantine tank. Then you can place the sponge into the newly filled quarantine tank and have instant biological filtration. The problem with the filter you propose is that it like will provide too much current for a sick fish, and that it will not provide biological filtration immediately. The fact of the matter is that though the fish may not excrete too much ammonia, relatively speaking, it will excrete ammonia, and then your cycle will start at the beginning, as opposed to the sponge filter which already has the bacteria you need, and will immediately start processing the ammonia and the subsequent nitrite. Another factor with the sponge filter is that you can control the amount of water flow by adjusting the air flow supplied to the filter. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Quarantein Tank I'm getting ready to start adding fish to my 20 gallon and before I make additions to my fish populations I need to set up a quarentine tank. I will be using a 10 gal tank for that, and am hopping to use an old 20 gallon whisper for filtration. Is that too much filtration for the size of tank I will be using? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29580	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Chris, It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy a new 10 than it is to repair one. As has already been mentioned, using a razor blade to break the seal is the normal method. You will need to do this carefully, even with a single edge blade, you can all too easily cut yourself. It will likely take several passes to break the seal. Once you have the glass apart, you will then need to get all the silicone removed. You can use the blade to remove the heavy stuff, but there will always be some left that will need to be removed. Again you need to be careful, not only with the razor, but the edges of the glass which are not likely to sanded, and will be liable to cut you. For removing the rest of the silicone see: http://www.geadvancedmaterials.com/geam/gesa/Residential/en/ProductSupport/FAQDetail/troubleshootingquestions.html#faq8 TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/67a25w \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank I have 2 broken 10 gallons that I want to make into one 10 gal. How do you remove the sealant? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29581	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: My Quarantein Tank

If it is quarantined for sickness, the fish is already under stress. Part of the reason of placing the fish in the quarantine tank is to remove sources of stress. Having an instant cycle by using the suggested method of keeping a sponge filter at the ready helps to achieve this goal, since the established bacterial colonies on the sponge will immediately go to work to remove the ammonia and nitrite. A massive water change can be very stressful to the fish, depending on the quality of the water being removed and the quality of the water replacing it. An example, water removed from the home tank of the fish has a pH of 6.5, and the water replacing it has a pH of 7.5. That is a very large swing for even a healthy fish to handle, and a situation which may not be all that uncommon. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Quarantein Tank If it's just a hospital tank for one sick fish, can''t you just do frequent large water changes? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 7:31 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Quarantein Tank For filtration, you would be better served to use a sponge filter that can be kept running in your main tank until it is needed for the quarantine tank. Then you can place the sponge into the newly filled quarantine tank and have instant biological filtration. The problem with the filter you propose is that it like will provide too much current for a sick fish, and that it will not provide biological filtration immediately. The fact of the matter is that though the fish may not excrete too much ammonia, relatively speaking, it will excrete ammonia, and then your cycle will start at the beginning, as opposed to the sponge filter which already has the bacteria you need, and will immediately start processing the ammonia and the subsequent nitrite. Another factor with the sponge filter is that you can control the amount of water flow by adjusting the air flow supplied to the filter. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Quarantein Tank I'm getting ready to start adding fish to my 20 gallon and before I make additions to my fish populations I need to set up a quarentine tank. I will be using a 10 gal tank for that, and am hopping to use an old 20 gallon whisper for filtration. Is that too much filtration for the size of tank I will be using? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29582	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav

Original Message: Lenny, So all those voodoo incantations and ceremonies you have been participating in all week have come to your aid? \\Steve// Lenny's reply: Yep... and lots of praying that my educated calculations were going to be right once again! Now, if you don't want to hear Lenny ranting about hurricanes, levee systems, politicians, the media, etc., do not read any further. LOL OK.. I warned you!!! LOL Like I've said many times before, when the politicians and the follow-the-politicians lip-synching media were reporting that New Orleans was going to be hit again, the REAL computer models, comprised of six different computer models, had three of them with Gustav heading off to South Texas while the other three had Gustav heading our way or to the Mississippi/Alabama areas. What the pol's and lip-synching media should have been saying is there was a 50% chance of it coming to the New Orleans/Mississippi/Alabama area but also a 50% chance of it going to South Texas... average that out and that's where Gustav went... to South Central Louisiana towards the Texas border. Why can't supposedly well-educated meteorologists and the few honest politicians see what I saw?... or at least report the facts instead of what 90% of the politicians might be saying? I don't know! Doesn't everyone know how to tell when a politician is lying? (Their lips are moving!) LOL Why do so many people and so many media outlets hang on to and believe every word a politician says without questioning what they are saying? I relied on my own ability to read and look at the computer models to see that this actual outcome was the most likely outcome which is why I made the decision to ride it out. Now... if or when a BIG hurricane is 24 hours out and looks like it might be the BIG ONE, I would likely change my plans and evacuate but just like what has always happened.... 99% of the time, the 5-day and 3-day initial hurricane paths are the places you actually want to be, as it ain't heading to those places. LOL Seriously, they really can't tell until it's 24 hours out. I don't mind people wanting to evacuate early but I just think the pol's and the lip-synching media should report the TRUTH instead of scaring the hell out of people. My rants were much worse on some other fish groups but I know how some people here have such an aversion to talking about politics... but Gustav or Katrina only happens once a year so I should get a rant-pass! LOL Now... if you've made it this far and really want to see me rant, here's a copy/paste of one of my replies to another fish group. LOL -----Original Message----- From: @yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Bill D. Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:22 PM To: @yahoogroups.com Subject: [] Re: Gustav LENNY, LENNY, LENNY... I'm very glad you and most of LA survived fairly well. It may interest you that tonight - on the way to dinner at about 9:15 - we passed a caravan of LOTS of tree service trucks all pulling in to a local hotel. I assume that it is a staging area for the guys from probably NC before they move down to help y'all out in the recovery effort tomorrow. Gee, I wonder if some of the locals from the 9th ward are pissed off that they didn't get a chance to go looting this time. Say "HI" to your fish for me, get some sleep and prepare to bust hump for the next few months! :-) Bill Lenny's reply to that group: Yeah.. not much looting this time but tens of thousands of people took advantage of the FREE FEMA vacations... round-trip train, plane and bus rides to Memphis and other vacation destinations, including housing and probably voucher money for food... and I'm sure entertainment too. Seriously... why should people take personal responsibility for themselves and their families when they can count on the government.. aka the rest of us tax-payers... to pay for their irresponsibility. Same for people that don't pay for insurance and then get tax-payer funded money to rebuild their homes. That's why so many people don't pay for flood insurance any more... heck.. if you don't spend your own money for insurance, you'll still get a BIG CHECK when all is said and done. There are still thousands of people that actually DID pay for their own catastrophe insurance but State Farm, Allstate, etc. denied their claims for one reason or another and still haven't paid off on those policies from Katrina, while irresponsible people that decided to NOT buy insurance got FEMA checks and Road-Home money for FREE. Do you really think those people will have any incentive to buy insurance when they can get FEMA settlements for FREE... well, not free to the rest of us tax-payers. I might not have been opposed to giving people low-interest loans but I just don't understand giving home-owners money for FREE, for acting irresponsibly by not buying insurance in the first place, when they end up with a home that may be free-and-clear when it's all said and done. I know I shouldn't be that harsh at a time like this but I get so tired of figuring out new ways to cheat.. ooops.. I meant legally avoid paying wasteful taxes to protest paying for all the crap that Congress wants to give away to irresponsible people. I guess I shouldn't complain.. they'll probably send me a few thousand dollars too.. which I'll probably keep even though I didn't really suffer any hardship. If I didn't value my home, business and possessions so much, I'd probably be on that FREE FEMA vacation too but it's just too much of a headache cleaning up things when I can stay and avoid or prevent the damage in the first place. I'm ready for another Boston Tea Party.. but this time, we'll throw all the damned politicians in the water... with cement shoes on them! :-D OK.. my rant's over for now.. unless some damned politician tries to raise taxes or cram some new social program down the throats of hard-working people... a/k/a anyone who works full time to raise their family, business owners who invest a lifetime of labor to build their businesses, "the rich", etc. EVERYONE pays enough in damned taxes already.. it's time for Washington to start living on a budget like the rest of us! Over the past few days, I've been reading up on how the "Levee System" was first turned into another federal program full of waste. Look up the Flood Protection Act of 1965. Washington proposed and got approved an 85 Million dollar, 13 year program, to build our levee systems after Hurricane Betsy tore up a big part of the area. 43 years later and over TWO BILLION DOLLARS (that's TWO THOUSAND MILLION DOLLARS) later, and it's only 60% done! Is this really who you want controlling our health care and retirement (aka Social Security for some)? We're already stuck with so many wasteful government programs, including the recently unfunded Prescription Drug Program that is going to cost our children, grand-children and great-grand-children BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS to pay for drugs for people today that never paid a penny into the system. PLEASE EVERYONE... VOTE FOR THE CANDIDATE THAT IS PROMISING LESS GOVERNMENT SOCIAL PROGRAMS as we really can't afford to keep giving everybody new entitlements paid for by other people!!!! OK.. now my rant is really over. LOL It was either this RANT or I'd have to go out looking for a looter to shoot... or a politician!!!! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Gustav Lenny, So all those voodoo incantations and ceremonies you have been participating in all week have come to your aid? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny Vasbinder Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 8:43 PM To: Dana Rasmussen; gold-fish@... <mailto:gold-fish%40yahoogoups.com> ; aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> ; ponds-koi@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ponds-koi%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gustav WOOO HOOO... our power just came back on so it was only off for 13 hours... Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Dana Rasmussen <danamr@... <mailto:danamr%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > The worst of Gustav is over for my area and they say by 6:00 p.m. > > (six > hours > > from now), we'll be back to normal rainy weather and then Entergy > > can > start > > fixing the power lines and get our power back on. Gustav is like a > > big thunderstorm compared to Katrina... at least for my area. > That's what we were hearing, too, but it's great to hear from you directly. > I have never meet you in person, but it's still a relief to hear you > are fine. > -- > Dana > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080901-0, 09/01/2008 Tested on: 9/1/2008 11:35:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29583	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/1/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Razor works good you can also get one of those cheap razor scrapers from Ace or similar hardware store and use that. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank I have 2 broken 10 gallons that I want to make into one 10 gal. How do you remove the sealant? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29584	From: jedi_n_dc	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Plants for a shady pond?

Yes, that's my issue - I can't find them. I'm an ardent gardener, and there are pages and pages of good plants for shady areas, but I don't know aquatic plants well enough. I'm debating silk plants if I have to.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29585	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: angelfish problem

While you still haven't mentioned what the nitrite and nitrate readings are, their being somewhat high (as you're saying) was a possibility that was suspected. As I'm sure you know, you need to keep an eye on allowing especially the nitrite to get too high. You may want to consider testing each time you make partial water changes, until you get an idea of how much (and/or, how frequent) water you really need to change per week. At least you know to cut down on feeding. Normally, although nitrates are usually not too much of a problem when kept below 40ppm, there are some fish which are affected at 20ppm. For this reason you should also try to keep this at as low a minimum as you can maintain. Old water, or that water higher in nitrates will adversely affect Angels, in stressing their immune system. If they just by chance are carrying any internal parasites, which is always a possibility (especially when the source is unknown), this stress can be enough to have these parasites gain the upper hand, and should be watched for in the fish's behavior. This facing into a rear corner and not eating behavior that was previously mentioned is symptomatically exclusive to Hexamita. This is not to say yet that your fish has Hexamita. Continue to observe this fish ater getting your water parameters in check. Quite often, with cleaner water (water free of nirogenous waste) and a rise in temperature to boost the fish's immune system, this will be enough to enable the fish to regain its health. Ideally, Angelfish will thrive best if there is a constant replenishment of old water with new -- as in the flow of its natural river habitat. While this is next to impossible to recreate, it should be kept in mind that they will do best for you when maintaining their water employing several PWC's per week. To allow even just the nitrates to build up excessively is to put their health at risk, even though normally healthy Angelfish will often not display signs of being stressed in "older" water, provided those parameters mentioned are kept low. This, however, should not give license to attempting to keep these fish in old water having elevated nitrates, as to do so is giving an invitation to cause them to fail. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29586	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not more than $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, more like $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and get a new one. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank Chris, It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy a new 10 than it is to repair one.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29587	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

If they are in one piece but don't hold water, you could freecycle them as turtle tanks. That's actually what happened to my 10 gallon! Turtle is even set up with a stand and hood! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank Chris, It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy a new 10 than it is to repair one.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29588	From: lizkakot	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Plants for a shady pond?

I know this sounds strange, but we have a few small spider plants in little floater O things, so only the roots are in the watter. http://county.ces.uga.edu/cobb/Horticulture/Plants/SpiderPlant/spdrplnt1b.jpg It makes the pond look more lively. And my goldfish don't seem to mind.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29589	From: Chris	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: My Quarantein Tank

I plan on putting extra gravel into the aquarium to put in the quarantine tank, and using water from the PWC to jump start the cycle. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > If it is quarantined for sickness, the fish is already under stress. Part of the reason of placing the fish in the quarantine tank is to remove sources of stress. Having an instant cycle by using the suggested method of keeping a sponge filter at the ready helps to achieve this goal, since the established bacterial colonies on the sponge will immediately go to work to remove the ammonia and nitrite. > > A massive water change can be very stressful to the fish, depending on the quality of the water being removed and the quality of the water replacing it. An example, water removed from the home tank of the fish has a pH of 6.5, and the water replacing it has a pH of 7.5. That is a very large swing for even a healthy fish to handle, and a situation which may not be all that uncommon. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Quarantein Tank > > If it's just a hospital tank for one sick fish, can''t you just do frequent > large water changes? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 7:31 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Quarantein Tank > > > For filtration, you would be better served to use a sponge filter that > can be kept running in your main tank until it is needed for the > quarantine tank. Then you can place the sponge into the newly filled > quarantine tank and have instant biological filtration. > > The problem with the filter you propose is that it like will provide too > much current for a sick fish, and that it will not provide biological > filtration immediately. The fact of the matter is that though the fish > may not excrete too much ammonia, relatively speaking, it will excrete > ammonia, and then your cycle will start at the beginning, as opposed to > the sponge filter which already has the bacteria you need, and will > immediately start processing the ammonia and the subsequent nitrite. > > Another factor with the sponge filter is that you can control the amount > of water flow by adjusting the air flow supplied to the filter. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 4:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Quarantein Tank > > I'm getting ready to start adding fish to my 20 gallon and before I > make additions to my fish populations I need to set up a quarentine > tank. I will be using a 10 gal tank for that, and am hopping to use > an old 20 gallon whisper for filtration. Is that too much filtration > for the size of tank I will be using? > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29590	From: Chris	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

I got the tanks for free, so the cost to me isn't important. Thanks for the warning. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Chris, > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy a new 10 than it is to repair one. > > As has already been mentioned, using a razor blade to break the seal is the normal method. You will need to do this carefully, even with a single edge blade, you can all too easily cut yourself. It will likely take several passes to break the seal. > > Once you have the glass apart, you will then need to get all the silicone removed. You can use the blade to remove the heavy stuff, but there will always be some left that will need to be removed. Again you need to be careful, not only with the razor, but the edges of the glass which are not likely to sanded, and will be liable to cut you. > > For removing the rest of the silicone see: http:// www.geadvancedmaterials.com/geam/gesa/Residential/en/ProductSupport/ FAQDetail/troubleshootingquestions.html#faq8 > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/67a25w > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 4:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I have 2 broken 10 gallons that I want to make into one 10 gal. How > do you remove the sealant? > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29591	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: 500 Gallon DIY Outside Aquarium

Yup. It's really me. I redid the entire filtration system, and will be posting new pics soon..........z

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29592	From: kid_collector_06	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Pond overrun w/ algae

We finally got found a home for our ducks and want to get the algae down in the least expensive and least caustic way. We also need ideas on finding and repairing the leaks. We will be putting our koi and goldfish in there.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29593	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV

Husser is located 22 miles north of I-12 above Covington/Mandeville, LA.  We were without power for 18 hours and converted to a generator.  Thanks to Lenny's suggestions and the fact that we did not have to evacuate all our fish made it fine.  My first priority was to connect all three aquariums to the generator and then the refrigerator, some lights, fans and then the water well.  It was a surprise when the electricity came on at 10:00 this morning.  Doing PWC and filter maintenance ahead of time made the difference.  We were prepared for an extended loss of power.   Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: cin <cinadmil@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 1, 2008 5:44:55 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV Good luck guys hope all goes well for you our prayers are with you Cheers Cin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29594	From: Lenny Vasbinder	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: 500 Gallon DIY Outside Aquarium

Cool. Welcome to the group. I'll be looking forward to your updates. After I replied earlier, I went to your website and saw you had a Bio page and saw you had the same name as you are using here so I figured it really was you but you know how people try to spoof identies so I guess I was be cautious. LOL Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny.blogspot.com On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Hans Brost <mtee3@...> wrote: > Yup. It's really me. I redid the entire filtration system, and will be > posting new pics soon..........z > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29595	From: Lenny Vasbinder	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Pond overrun w/ algae

Do you have fish in the pond now? Do you have any aquatic life in there? How big is the pond? Do you have an external filtration system, bog system, etc.? What kind of liner do you have? Soft PVC or EPDM or hard PVC or other??? The reason I'm asking is there are different routes to take depending on those answers. I'll wait for your answers but I'm also dealing with the aftermaths of Hurricane Gustav so I may not be on when you reply if it isn't soon but someone else could probably help you if you give us more info. Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny.blogspot.com On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 12:10 PM, kid_collector_06 < kid_collector_06@...> wrote: > We finally got found a home for our ducks and want to get the algae > down in the least expensive and least caustic way. We also need ideas > on finding and repairing the leaks. We will be putting our koi and > goldfish in there. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29596	From: Lenny Vasbinder	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV

All I can say is DAMNED ENTERGY. I'm in Metairie, LA, just west of New Orleans and they restored our power last night at 7:45 p.m. and all was well until around 11:00 a.m. when the power went out again... for no good reason. No rain, no bad weather, no high winds, nothing that I can find that would have caused our power to go out. At first I thought it might just be something where they had to reboot the system or disconnect us for a little while to make a repair but it's been off for a couple of hours now and I called ENTERGY but nobody over there knows anything. At least I have my generator but it's crazy to have the power turned back on for 14 hours and then go out again for an unexplained cause. Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny.blogspot.com On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> wrote: > Husser is located 22 miles north of I-12 above Covington/Mandeville, > LA. We were without power for 18 hours and converted to a generator. > Thanks to Lenny's suggestions and the fact that we did not have to evacuate > all our fish made it fine. My first priority was to connect all three > aquariums to the generator and then the refrigerator, some lights, fans and > then the water well. It was a surprise when the electricity came on at > 10:00 this morning. Doing PWC and filter maintenance ahead of time made the > difference. We were prepared for an extended loss of power. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: cin <cinadmil@... <cinadmil%40yahoo.com.au>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 1, 2008 5:44:55 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV > > Good luck guys hope all goes well for you our prayers are with you > Cheers > Cin > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29597	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV

be patient, it might be a blow transformer, from the surge of the power being off in other places.. be patient they have lots to do. i know it sucks.. but it will be worth it when everything is finally settled. My dad is a supervisior of the local power company here.. that how i know. On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Lenny Vasbinder <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > All I can say is DAMNED ENTERGY. I'm in Metairie, LA, just west of New > Orleans and they restored our power last night at 7:45 p.m. and all was > well > until around 11:00 a.m. when the power went out again... for no good > reason. No rain, no bad weather, no high winds, nothing that I can find > that would have caused our power to go out. At first I thought it might > just be something where they had to reboot the system or disconnect us for > a > little while to make a repair but it's been off for a couple of hours now > and I called ENTERGY but nobody over there knows anything. At least I have > my generator but it's crazy to have the power turned back on for 14 hours > and then go out again for an unexplained cause. > > Lenny Vasbinder > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...<mchaneyjm%40yahoo.com>> > wrote: > > > Husser is located 22 miles north of I-12 above Covington/Mandeville, > > LA. We were without power for 18 hours and converted to a generator. > > Thanks to Lenny's suggestions and the fact that we did not have to > evacuate > > all our fish made it fine. My first priority was to connect all three > > aquariums to the generator and then the refrigerator, some lights, fans > and > > then the water well. It was a surprise when the electricity came on at > > 10:00 this morning. Doing PWC and filter maintenance ahead of time made > the > > difference. We were prepared for an extended loss of power. > > > > Jimmy McHaney > > Husser, LA > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: cin <cinadmil@... <cinadmil%40yahoo.com.au> <cinadmil% > 40yahoo.com.au>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 1, 2008 5:44:55 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV > > > > Good luck guys hope all goes well for you our prayers are with you > > Cheers > > Cin > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29598	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV

We have Washington-St. Tammany Electric out here.  We seem to get some priority due to the dairy farms in the area.  They did a very good job after Katrina of redoing all of the lines and poles in this area.  Our service has been great since then.   It is definitely a benefit to aquarium enthusiast in cases like this (although I am the only aquarium enthusiast within 30 miles that I know of).  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny Vasbinder <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2008 1:08:36 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV All I can say is DAMNED ENTERGY. I'm in Metairie, LA, just west of New Orleans and they restored our power last night at 7:45 p.m. and all was well until around 11:00 a.m. when the power went out again... for no good reason. No rain, no bad weather, no high winds, nothing that I can find that would have caused our power to go out. At first I thought it might just be something where they had to reboot the system or disconnect us for a little while to make a repair but it's been off for a couple of hours now and I called ENTERGY but nobody over there knows anything. At least I have my generator but it's crazy to have the power turned back on for 14 hours and then go out again for an unexplained cause. Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny. blogspot. com On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@yahoo. com> wrote: > Husser is located 22 miles north of I-12 above Covington/Mandevill e, > LA. We were without power for 18 hours and converted to a generator. > Thanks to Lenny's suggestions and the fact that we did not have to evacuate > all our fish made it fine. My first priority was to connect all three > aquariums to the generator and then the refrigerator, some lights, fans and > then the water well. It was a surprise when the electricity came on at > 10:00 this morning. Doing PWC and filter maintenance ahead of time made the > difference. We were prepared for an extended loss of power. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: cin <cinadmil@yahoo. com.au <cinadmil%40yahoo. com.au>> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Monday, September 1, 2008 5:44:55 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV > > Good luck guys hope all goes well for you our prayers are with you > Cheers > Cin > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29599	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV

Sounds about like Austin Energy. You're lucky they know the power's out! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny Vasbinder" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV All I can say is DAMNED ENTERGY. I'm in Metairie, LA, just west of New Orleans and they restored our power last night at 7:45 p.m. and all was well until around 11:00 a.m. when the power went out again... for no good reason. No rain, no bad weather, no high winds, nothing that I can find that would have caused our power to go out. At first I thought it might just be something where they had to reboot the system or disconnect us for a little while to make a repair but it's been off for a couple of hours now and I called ENTERGY but nobody over there knows anything. At least I have my generator but it's crazy to have the power turned back on for 14 hours and then go out again for an unexplained cause. Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29600	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Pond overrun w/ algae

Go in and pull it? I think that's what they do in the Austin river. I do believe that for the river they lower the water first. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "kid_collector_06" <kid_collector_06@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 12:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Pond overrun w/ algae We finally got found a home for our ducks and want to get the algae down in the least expensive and least caustic way. We also need ideas on finding and repairing the leaks. We will be putting our koi and goldfish in there. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29601	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV

Dairy farms do have a priority. When I was young, we lived (and my parents still do) on a road with three working dairies, now there is one. It was also a school bus route. When the power went out, we were always among the first to get it back, even though we lived about 0.5 mile past the last one, they just came right up to get everything done on that road--we were/are the last house on the road, and the power lines did not go beyond us. In the winter, when it snowed, diaries in town and school bus routes were priorities to get plowed out, and we were, again, among the first to be plowed out. Double-edged sword, that. We seldom had a day off from school due to snow, not like where I am living now where the mere threat of snow causes school closings at least twice during the winter. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 4:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV We have Washington-St. Tammany Electric out here.  We seem to get some priority due to the dairy farms in the area.  They did a very good job after Katrina of redoing all of the lines and poles in this area.  Our service has been great since then.   It is definitely a benefit to aquarium enthusiast in cases like this (although I am the only aquarium enthusiast within 30 miles that I know of).  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny Vasbinder <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2008 1:08:36 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV All I can say is DAMNED ENTERGY. I'm in Metairie, LA, just west of New Orleans and they restored our power last night at 7:45 p.m. and all was well until around 11:00 a.m. when the power went out again... for no good reason. No rain, no bad weather, no high winds, nothing that I can find that would have caused our power to go out. At first I thought it might just be something where they had to reboot the system or disconnect us for a little while to make a repair but it's been off for a couple of hours now and I called ENTERGY but nobody over there knows anything. At least I have my generator but it's crazy to have the power turned back on for 14 hours and then go out again for an unexplained cause. Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny. blogspot. com On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@yahoo. com> wrote: > Husser is located 22 miles north of I-12 above Covington/Mandevill e, > LA. We were without power for 18 hours and converted to a generator. > Thanks to Lenny's suggestions and the fact that we did not have to evacuate > all our fish made it fine. My first priority was to connect all three > aquariums to the generator and then the refrigerator, some lights, fans and > then the water well. It was a surprise when the electricity came on at > 10:00 this morning. Doing PWC and filter maintenance ahead of time made the > difference. We were prepared for an extended loss of power. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: cin <cinadmil@yahoo. com.au <cinadmil%40yahoo. com.au>> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Monday, September 1, 2008 5:44:55 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV > > Good luck guys hope all goes well for you our prayers are with you > Cheers > Cin >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29602	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Pond overrun w/ algae

As Lenny mentions, we do need more information about your pond before we can proceed with advice for your pond. Also include the type of algae you are trying to rid the pond of, is it algae that is attached to the substrate, or is it algae that is floating in the water causing what is known as green water, or clumps that are floating? Also include the current water parameters, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphates, if you have a kit for phosphates, along with those of the water that will be used to replenish your pond during periodic water changes. I am not hopeful of the duck/fish combination you mention for a few reasons. The waste the ducks will leave in their wake will be deleterious to your water quality, and the ducks may think your fish make a neat snack between mealtimes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kid_collector_06 Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 1:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pond overrun w/ algae We finally got found a home for our ducks and want to get the algae down in the least expensive and least caustic way. We also need ideas on finding and repairing the leaks. We will be putting our koi and goldfish in there.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29603	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: My Quarantein Tank

Chris, That would be a hit or miss situation at best. You are not assured of getting enough bacteria from the substrate to adequately handle the load that will be in the tank, and the water from the main tank will not really contain any bacteria to help with the cycle. Using tank water in a quarantine tank only serves to prevent shocking and/stressing the fish any more than it already is. Using a small sponge filter is really the way to go, and having it in the main tank serves to keep it prepared for future use for immediate continuation of the cycle. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Quarantein Tank I plan on putting extra gravel into the aquarium to put in the quarantine tank, and using water from the PWC to jump start the cycle. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > If it is quarantined for sickness, the fish is already under stress. Part of the reason of placing the fish in the quarantine tank is to remove sources of stress. Having an instant cycle by using the suggested method of keeping a sponge filter at the ready helps to achieve this goal, since the established bacterial colonies on the sponge will immediately go to work to remove the ammonia and nitrite. > > A massive water change can be very stressful to the fish, depending on the quality of the water being removed and the quality of the water replacing it. An example, water removed from the home tank of the fish has a pH of 6.5, and the water replacing it has a pH of 7.5. That is a very large swing for even a healthy fish to handle, and a situation which may not be all that uncommon. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Quarantein Tank > > If it's just a hospital tank for one sick fish, can''t you just do frequent > large water changes? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 7:31 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Quarantein Tank > > > For filtration, you would be better served to use a sponge filter that > can be kept running in your main tank until it is needed for the > quarantine tank. Then you can place the sponge into the newly filled > quarantine tank and have instant biological filtration. > > The problem with the filter you propose is that it like will provide too > much current for a sick fish, and that it will not provide biological > filtration immediately. The fact of the matter is that though the fish > may not excrete too much ammonia, relatively speaking, it will excrete > ammonia, and then your cycle will start at the beginning, as opposed to > the sponge filter which already has the bacteria you need, and will > immediately start processing the ammonia and the subsequent nitrite. > > Another factor with the sponge filter is that you can control the amount > of water flow by adjusting the air flow supplied to the filter. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 4:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Quarantein Tank > > I'm getting ready to start adding fish to my 20 gallon and before I > make additions to my fish populations I need to set up a quarentine > tank. I will be using a 10 gal tank for that, and am hopping to use > an old 20 gallon whisper for filtration. Is that too much filtration > for the size of tank I will be using? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29604	From: Chris	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Pond overrun w/ algae

If you have a leaky liner, wouldn't you need to drain it anyway? I imagine that you could throw in a bunch of hungry snails and they would eat up the algea. Are there any fiber glass patch kits that are safe for fish? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kid_collector_06" <kid_collector_06@...> wrote: > > We finally got found a home for our ducks and want to get the algae > down in the least expensive and least caustic way. We also need ideas > on finding and repairing the leaks. We will be putting our koi and > goldfish in there. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29605	From: joe t	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Hey Chris, As far as I'm concerned, it's not worth doing unless you just feel like fooling around with it. The cost of the silicone will probably cost just as much--if not more--than a new tank.  If you have a PetLand or something like that around your way.  Wait for a "Tank Riot" sale and you can get some real good buys on tanks. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29606	From: Chris	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Am I asking for trouble?

After much thought I'm really considerring having tiger barbs (atleast 6) in my tank. I was thinking of putting a Betta in there at some point. Am I asking for trouble?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29607	From: Chris	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV

Consider yourself one of the lucky ones, and that things didn't get worse. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny Vasbinder" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > All I can say is DAMNED ENTERGY. I'm in Metairie, LA, just west of New > Orleans and they restored our power last night at 7:45 p.m. and all was well > until around 11:00 a.m. when the power went out again... for no good > reason. No rain, no bad weather, no high winds, nothing that I can find > that would have caused our power to go out. At first I thought it might > just be something where they had to reboot the system or disconnect us for a > little while to make a repair but it's been off for a couple of hours now > and I called ENTERGY but nobody over there knows anything. At least I have > my generator but it's crazy to have the power turned back on for 14 hours > and then go out again for an unexplained cause. > > Lenny Vasbinder > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> wrote: > > > Husser is located 22 miles north of I-12 above Covington/Mandeville, > > LA. We were without power for 18 hours and converted to a generator. > > Thanks to Lenny's suggestions and the fact that we did not have to evacuate > > all our fish made it fine. My first priority was to connect all three > > aquariums to the generator and then the refrigerator, some lights, fans and > > then the water well. It was a surprise when the electricity came on at > > 10:00 this morning. Doing PWC and filter maintenance ahead of time made the > > difference. We were prepared for an extended loss of power. > > > > Jimmy McHaney > > Husser, LA > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: cin <cinadmil@... <cinadmil%40yahoo.com.au>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 1, 2008 5:44:55 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV > > > > Good luck guys hope all goes well for you our prayers are with you > > Cheers > > Cin > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29608	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Just the cost of the silicone and your time will cost more than $10. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 11:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I got the tanks for free, so the cost to me isn't important. Thanks for the warning. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Chris, > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy a new 10 than it is to repair one. > > As has already been mentioned, using a razor blade to break the seal is the normal method. You will need to do this carefully, even with a single edge blade, you can all too easily cut yourself. It will likely take several passes to break the seal. > > Once you have the glass apart, you will then need to get all the silicone removed. You can use the blade to remove the heavy stuff, but there will always be some left that will need to be removed. Again you need to be careful, not only with the razor, but the edges of the glass which are not likely to sanded, and will be liable to cut you. > > For removing the rest of the silicone see: http:// www.geadvancedmaterials.com/geam/gesa/Residential/en/ProductSupport/ FAQDetail/troubleshootingquestions.html#faq8 > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/67a25w> com/67a25w > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 4:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I have 2 broken 10 gallons that I want to make into one 10 gal. How > do you remove the sealant? > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29609	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: old tank

Hi guys...you have me hooked on this board lol I have an old 55 gal long tank in my basement that has been dry for about a year...maybe longer. My question is, are the seals still good on it? It's large, heavy, and already in the basement, so I don't want to take it outside to fill it and find out that way. Any thoughts/suggestions/ideas? Should I just buy a new one? Re-seal it? Also...about the plants..all I was looking for were some suggestions on hardy, easy keeping plants lol It gets natural light since it's pretty bright in here. Can I put them in the tank in terra cotta pots? Angela

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29610	From: Chris	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank don't you think? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not more than > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, more like > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and get a new > one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > Chris, > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy a new > 10 than it is to repair one. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29611	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Brown stuff in my tank

My 20 G tank finally cycled 2 weeks ago. At that time I had 3 platys and a black molly in there. I had a 10 G planted tank with 3 Glo fish Danios in quarantine. I purchased a Red Flame Gourami and he went in the 10 G and I moved the platys in there. Nice peaceful tank. The Danios went in the 20G with the Mollie and 7 Harlequin Rasboras.Then I added a few plants. Life was good for about a day. Then the 20 Gallon decided to get all white cloudy. I had read it could be bacterial bloom. I vacuumed the gravel good, changed the water, still cloudy. I rinsed my filter parts. I replaced the bio filter part (the bag with the charcoal in) becasue it had been in there for 2 months and I thought I should. I did cut about 1/3 of the bag and attach it to the new bag. So another week goes by. I have a small ammonia spike (.25), nitrates are 20, nitrites 0. I do a PWC every other day. I add Excel. flourish and Trace for the plants. Today while doing the PWC I notice that the fake coral decoration I have in there is all brown on the ends. Is this algae? diatoms? The Mollie is licking(?) all the plants and rocks. I read they like algae. So how do I get rid of the brown stuff? Will the milky haze ever go away? (It is much better now than it was a week ago) I do have some snails (MTS and unknowns that must have come in on the plants) Should I add some to the 20 G? I don't have soil in the 20 only regular gravel? All advice appreciated (And before I get chastised for my tanks being too small- I just got a 30G so as soon as my soil arrives and I get it planted and cycled everyone will move up) Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29612	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Gustav

Lenny, I agree with you 100%. My husband works for FEMA. I see the wasted taxpayer monies up close and personal. He's been in Iowa for 2 months watching a contractor clean up creek beds. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29613	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

I can''t figure out a better way to find out if it holds water than take it outside and refill it. If it holds water than you empty it. I got an old 10 gallon tank that had sat in someone's garage forever and it held water fine. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "littlesprite43086" <littlesprite43086@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 7:26 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] old tank Hi guys...you have me hooked on this board lol I have an old 55 gal long tank in my basement that has been dry for about a year...maybe longer. My question is, are the seals still good on it? It's large, heavy, and already in the basement, so I don't want to take it outside to fill it and find out that way. Any thoughts/suggestions/ideas? Should I just buy a new one? Re-seal it? Also...about the plants..all I was looking for were some suggestions on hardy, easy keeping plants lol It gets natural light since it's pretty bright in here. Can I put them in the tank in terra cotta pots? Angela ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29614	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not count on one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive mess. I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional fish tank but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd wait until I had one. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank don't you think? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not more than > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, more like > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and get a new > one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > Chris, > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy a new > 10 than it is to repair one. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29615	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Brown stuff in my tank

Well, I've noticed the same thing. A cycled tank can go south on you if you don't keep it clean. I did clean the gravel before things got quite that bad. I'm not even going to try with plants; they bring their own problems. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzy Snowflake" <grammypat@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:14 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown stuff in my tank My 20 G tank finally cycled 2 weeks ago. tank. The Danios went in the 20G with the Mollie and 7 Harlequin Rasboras.Then I added a few plants. Life was good for about a day. Then the 20 Gallon decided to get all white cloudy. I had read it could be bacterial bloom. I vacuumed the gravel good, changed the water, still cloudy. I rinsed my filter parts. I replaced the bio filter part (the bag with the charcoal in) becasue it had been in there for 2 months and I thought I should. I did cut about 1/3 of the bag and attach it to the new bag. So another week goes by. I have a small ammonia spike (.25), nitrates are 20, nitrites 0. I do a PWC every other day. I add Excel. flourish and Trace for the plants.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29616	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?

I would not place a betta in with barbs, even if the barbs are in a large enough group that they do not normally bother other fish. The chance that they forgot to read the literature on their behavior is too great a chance to take. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 6:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Am I asking for trouble? After much thought I'm really considerring having tiger barbs (atleast 6) in my tank. I was thinking of putting a Betta in there at some point. Am I asking for trouble?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29617	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

Give the beads a thorough visual examination. If they look to be good, and holding well, fill the tank over several days to see if any leaks develop. Once it is full, then let sit for a week or so as a test, checking at least once a day for any leaks. If it passes, you are good to go. If it fails, then you will need to decide whether to proceed with repair or not. Small leaks can be the devil to track down since where the leak appears may not be where they start. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] old tank Hi guys...you have me hooked on this board lol I have an old 55 gal long tank in my basement that has been dry for about a year...maybe longer. My question is, are the seals still good on it? It's large, heavy, and already in the basement, so I don't want to take it outside to fill it and find out that way. Any thoughts/suggestions/ideas? Should I just buy a new one? Re-seal it? Also...about the plants..all I was looking for were some suggestions on hardy, easy keeping plants lol It gets natural light since it's pretty bright in here. Can I put them in the tank in terra cotta pots? Angela

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29618	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV

Heck... I think I'm going to trade in my fish for a couple of cows. When I explain why, to the neighbors, they'll probably get over the constant mooing and cow paddies. LOL That reminds me of a joke... yes, I'm the kind of guy that knows a million jokes and any kind of key word that comes up in a conversation will remind me of a joke. Should I tell it? It's not x-rated but might have an innuendo or two. Hmmmmmm... LOL BTW.. the power came back on tonight around 7 p.m. Hopefully it will at least be on all night. OK Entergy... I take back almost everything I called you all today. LOL Heck.. I started thinking about the joke and it's not really dirty... or at least can be told rather cleanly... so here it goes... after all, it's a special occasion that I made it through another killer-hurricane and my power is back on again and this whole thread is off-topic anyhow. LOL LENNY'S COW JOKE! ( Real author unknown) So one day, these three bulls were hanging around on the ranch talking and the BIG bull said, "I hear they are bringing in a really GIANT bull later this week... I hope he knows that he ain't gonna get any of my cows!" The Medium sized bull said, "Heck, I only have a half dozen cows. I know he's not gonna take any of mine!" The little cow said, "Dang, I ain't got but one cow... he better not try to take my cow!". The next day, a BIG 18-wheeler truck showed up and the GIANT bull came rumbling down the ramp out of the truck. The BIG bull looked at the GIANT bull and said, "Damn... that's a big bull.. I might just have to give up a few of my cows." The Medium sized bull said, "Dang... I might have to give up one or two of my cows too!" All of a sudden, the little bull started pawing at the ground and snorting and shaking his head back and forth and spitting and the other two bulls looked at him and said, "What's up with you?". The little bull said, "I just want to make sure he knows I'm not a cow!" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV Dairy farms do have a priority. When I was young, we lived (and my parents still do) on a road with three working dairies, now there is one. It was also a school bus route. When the power went out, we were always among the first to get it back, even though we lived about 0.5 mile past the last one, they just came right up to get everything done on that road--we were/are the last house on the road, and the power lines did not go beyond us. In the winter, when it snowed, diaries in town and school bus routes were priorities to get plowed out, and we were, again, among the first to be plowed out. Double-edged sword, that. We seldom had a day off from school due to snow, not like where I am living now where the mere threat of snow causes school closings at least twice during the winter. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 4:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV We have Washington-St. Tammany Electric out here. We seem to get some priority due to the dairy farms in the area. They did a very good job after Katrina of redoing all of the lines and poles in this area. Our service has been great since then. It is definitely a benefit to aquarium enthusiast in cases like this (although I am the only aquarium enthusiast within 30 miles that I know of). Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny Vasbinder <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2008 1:08:36 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV All I can say is DAMNED ENTERGY. I'm in Metairie, LA, just west of New Orleans and they restored our power last night at 7:45 p.m. and all was well until around 11:00 a.m. when the power went out again... for no good reason. No rain, no bad weather, no high winds, nothing that I can find that would have caused our power to go out. At first I thought it might just be something where they had to reboot the system or disconnect us for a little while to make a repair but it's been off for a couple of hours now and I called ENTERGY but nobody over there knows anything. At least I have my generator but it's crazy to have the power turned back on for 14 hours and then go out again for an unexplained cause. Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny. blogspot. com On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@yahoo. com> wrote: > Husser is located 22 miles north of I-12 above Covington/Mandevill e, > LA. We were without power for 18 hours and converted to a generator. > Thanks to Lenny's suggestions and the fact that we did not have to > evacuate all our fish made it fine. My first priority was to connect > all three aquariums to the generator and then the refrigerator, some > lights, fans and then the water well. It was a surprise when the > electricity came on at 10:00 this morning. Doing PWC and filter > maintenance ahead of time made the difference. We were prepared for an extended loss of power. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: cin <cinadmil@yahoo. com.au <cinadmil%40yahoo. com.au>> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Monday, September 1, 2008 5:44:55 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV > > Good luck guys hope all goes well for you our prayers are with you > Cheers Cin > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080902-0, 09/02/2008 Tested on: 9/2/2008 11:05:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29619	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: GUSTAV - OT

Chris, I consider myself not only lucky, but Blessed... but that doesn't mean that Entergy can just do what they want and not have to give customers a reasonably informed answer when someone makes the effort to call in, stay on hold for a long time, etc.... as I did! If it wasn't a monopoly and I had a choice, I wouldn't even do business with them, nor would tens of thousands of other utility-enslaved customers down here. I'll be so glad when there is freedom of choice when dealing with ALL utility companies. After all, it was crooked politicians who were bribed into creating utility monopolies in the first place. America was Blessed when the original A.T.& T. BIG telephone monopoly was finally broken up. Most people on the internet today do not have a clue about how things used to be with "the" telephone company... A.T.& T. I can assure you that we would never have the telecommunications technology that we have today, had it stayed as a BIG monopoly. We probably wouldn't even have the internet as we know it today. (Well, maybe Al Gore would have still invented it. LOL) Now if we can only break up the energy utility monopolies. You'd have to read about my adventures with Entergy following Hurricane Katrina to see the frustration they bring on people. Here's a link to one of that adventure's posts that I made in another forum back in 2005. http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/board/FindPost70294.aspx and the following posts by me. (If you have plenty of time, go back to page one of that thread and read through all 15 pages. LOL) I'm sorry but their business is selling electricity. It's the only thing they do so they need to at least do it right. It's not like I'm complaining because the pet groomer can't restore power or keep it on or give an answer as to why it went out for no reason. They are THE ONLY energy utility company for my area and THEY NEED to communicate with people and give adequate answers for the things THEY are doing... and at least tell us why they turned off our power, or why it failed, after it being on for 14 hours. Giving people/customers a reasonably intelligent answer to a logical question isn't that difficult to do. Heck, we do it for FREE all the time in this forum. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GUSTAV Consider yourself one of the lucky ones, and that things didn't get worse. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny Vasbinder" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > All I can say is DAMNED ENTERGY. I'm in Metairie, LA, just west of New > Orleans and they restored our power last night at 7:45 p.m. and all was well > until around 11:00 a.m. when the power went out again... for no good > reason. No rain, no bad weather, no high winds, nothing that I can > find that would have caused our power to go out. At first I thought it > might just be something where they had to reboot the system or > disconnect us for a > little while to make a repair but it's been off for a couple of hours now > and I called ENTERGY but nobody over there knows anything. At least I have > my generator but it's crazy to have the power turned back on for 14 hours > and then go out again for an unexplained cause. > > Lenny Vasbinder > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> wrote: > > > Husser is located 22 miles north of I-12 above Covington/Mandeville, > > LA. We were without power for 18 hours and converted to a generator. > > Thanks to Lenny's suggestions and the fact that we did not have to evacuate > > all our fish made it fine. My first priority was to connect all > > three aquariums to the generator and then the refrigerator, some > > lights, fans and > > then the water well. It was a surprise when the electricity came on at > > 10:00 this morning. Doing PWC and filter maintenance ahead of time made the > > difference. We were prepared for an extended loss of power. > > > > Jimmy McHaney > > Husser, LA > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: cin <cinadmil@... <cinadmil%40yahoo.com.au>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 1, 2008 5:44:55 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] GUSTAV > > > > Good luck guys hope all goes well for you our prayers are with you > > Cheers Cin > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080902-0, 09/02/2008 Tested on: 9/2/2008 11:53:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29620	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

Since silicone doesn't soak up water, it will not have "dried up" by being empty. That said, how old is the tank? As you may have seen on the silicone tubes at the stores, they do have a limited life-time. Does the tank have a metal frame or plastic? Does it have a glass bottom or slate? As you may have read, I'm down here in N'Awlins burbs so we don't have too many basements down here... otherwise we'd all have built in under-home swimming pools or ponds or really big tanks. LOL We do have lots of two-story homes where the second floor is actually the home and the first floor is called a basement but it's all above ground down here. Do you have any kind of drainage down in your basement or would you have to rely on a pump? If no drainage, it would probably be best to get a couple of guys to carry it to an area with drainage and test fill it... do you have a basement shower or tub? If you just want to go ahead and err on the side of caution and replace the silicone, here's a couple of sites I have in my favorites on how to fix an aquarium. Fixing a 55G is a little more cost effecting compared to fixing a 10G unless the 10G is being done as a little DIY project or as practice for a larger project down the road. http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107 http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/a/aa031302.htm You can often find 55G tanks on sale for around $50.00 or sometimes PetCo will have tank sales for $1.00/gallon. You can also find them used but then you'll be right back in the same boat on whether it's going to leak but newer glass tanks do weigh much less than the older ones. Acrylic tanks weigh far less. When I got my 65G tank via the internet a few years ago, I was amazed when I saw the UPS guy carrying up this huge box (5' long by 2' by 2') in a big bear hug up the stairs to my 2nd floor condo back then. Then he set it down and I thought I got ripped off over the net as the entire box weighed only 25 pounds. The box and packaging probably weighed more than the actual tank. Here are some sites with Very Easy and Easy to grow plants. Yes, you can use clay pots. Some people even coat their clay pots with aquarium safe silicone and then roll the pots in their new substrate so the pots blend in with the substrate a little better. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> &filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> &filter_by=3 That's how I have my 65G goldfish tank set up. I'm pretty sure I have pics of my tank when I first set it up on my blog on my DIY tank stand. Go to my blog and look down on the right side for the link as they usually break in this forum but here it is just in case it survives Yahoo's link length rule. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/my-diy-2000-big-tank-stand.html or just the pic... http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/2540/1405380474070613611S600x600Q85.jpg The clay pots are mostly hidden by the driftwood and large rock in my tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] old tank Hi guys...you have me hooked on this board lol I have an old 55 gal long tank in my basement that has been dry for about a year...maybe longer. My question is, are the seals still good on it? It's large, heavy, and already in the basement, so I don't want to take it outside to fill it and find out that way. Any thoughts/suggestions/ideas? Should I just buy a new one? Re-seal it? Also...about the plants..all I was looking for were some suggestions on hardy, easy keeping plants lol It gets natural light since it's pretty bright in here. Can I put them in the tank in terra cotta pots? Angela _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080902-0, 09/02/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 12:16:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29621	From: pam andress	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

I have to agree. The only way to find out is to fill it. I got an old tank this summer that had sat for about 2 years. I filled it up outside and it held great. It is now set up. I sure wouldn't go out and spend money on a new tank when all you have to do it fill it. Then if it does leak, you can make the decission to fix it or buy a new one. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: tiggernut24@...: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 21:00:22 -0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] old tank I can''t figure out a better way to find out if it holds water than take it outside and refill it. If it holds water than you empty it.I got an old 10 gallon tank that had sat in someone's garage forever and it held water fine.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@...----- Original Message ----- From: "littlesprite43086" <littlesprite43086@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 7:26 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] old tankHi guys...you have me hooked on this board lol I have an old 55 gallong tank in my basement that has been dry for about a year...maybelonger. My question is, are the seals still good on it? It's large,heavy, and already in the basement, so I don't want to take it outsideto fill it and find out that way. Any thoughts/suggestions/ideas?Should I just buy a new one? Re-seal it?Also...about the plants..all I was looking for were some suggestions onhardy, easy keeping plants lol It gets natural light since it's prettybright in here. Can I put them in the tank in terra cotta pots?Angela------------------------------------Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º>PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-<º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29622	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

I thought I would drop my two cents worth on this discussion. I rehab old tanks all the time and either use them in my operation or donate them to school teachers who use them for teaching aids in their classrooms. Ten gallon tanks are of no use to me except as quarantine tanks of which I currently have three set up and cycled waiting for patients. In fact. Sunday I donated six 10 gallon tanks to a 5th grade science teacher in Waynesville NC who teaches on the Cherokee Indian Reservation. I agree that aquarium silicone is expensive, but I buy mine through Big Al's online. Their price is about the same as what a tube of regular silicone would cost at Home Depot or Lowes. I can usually repair several tanks with one tube. I just recaulked several tanks over the weekend and used a little less than two tubes. The tanks I recaulked were a 20 long, a 20 tall, a 30 long and a 55. Grey ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: tiggernut24@... Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 21:01:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not count on one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive mess. I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional fish tank but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd wait until I had one. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank don't you think? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not more than > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, more like > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and get a new > one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > Chris, > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy a new > 10 than it is to repair one. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29623	From: pam andress	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Sounds to me like you want the challenge. I would give it a try and see what happens. If it doesn't work, you are out a few dollars. If it does, you may try bigger tanks or make a new one all on your own. Good luck. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: crjm28@...: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 22:08:12 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tankdon't you think?--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote:>> That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, notmore than > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, morelike > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart andget a new > one.> > Yours,> Dora Smith> Austin, TX> tiggernut24@...> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank> > > Chris,> > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buya new > 10 than it is to repair one.> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29624	From: Margie	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

My 55 just sat through one year in the heat, the rain and the cold and it is perfect. But I will say I had my worries also when I filled it.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: littlesprite43086 Date: 9/2/2008 8:52:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] old tank Hi guys...you have me hooked on this board lol I have an old 55 gal long tank in my basement that has been dry for about a year...maybe longer. My question is, are the seals still good on it? It's large, heavy, and already in the basement, so I don't want to take it outside to fill it and find out that way. Any thoughts/suggestions/ideas? Should I just buy a new one? Re-seal it? Also...about the plants..all I was looking for were some suggestions on hardy, easy keeping plants lol It gets natural light since it's pretty bright in here. Can I put them in the tank in terra cotta pots? Angela ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29625	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2008
Subject: Re: Brown stuff in my tank

If the 20G was a brand new tank, the brown powdery stuff "growing" on surface areas of the tank could likely be diatoms... mistakenly called brown algae. Diatoms in FW tanks feed off of silicates which likely leached from the new silicone on the tank, decorations and some substrates. If it easily brushes off of things, just do that and then vacuum it out of your substrate with each weekly 25% PWC. The white cloudy likely bacteria bloom is just that... a bloom in the water column until all of the various bacteria that live in a fish tank find a place to call home. You could do 25% PWC's every day with dechlored water to help keep things clearer or just ignore it and it will dissipate on it's own. I hope that when you said that you "changed the water", you did not do a 100% water change. It's not good to change out more than 25-33% at a time just for aesthetic reasons. Now if there was a major problem like a contamination, things would be different. Go to my blog and read my article "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning" so you do not repeat the newbie mistakes that so many of us made by trashing your filter cartridges... especially not on a tank that is less than six months old. Here's an article on diatoms. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzy Snowflake Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown stuff in my tank My 20 G tank finally cycled 2 weeks ago. At that time I had 3 platys and a black molly in there. I had a 10 G planted tank with 3 Glo fish Danios in quarantine. I purchased a Red Flame Gourami and he went in the 10 G and I moved the platys in there. Nice peaceful tank. The Danios went in the 20G with the Mollie and 7 Harlequin Rasboras.Then I added a few plants. Life was good for about a day. Then the 20 Gallon decided to get all white cloudy. I had read it could be bacterial bloom. I vacuumed the gravel good, changed the water, still cloudy. I rinsed my filter parts. I replaced the bio filter part (the bag with the charcoal in) becasue it had been in there for 2 months and I thought I should. I did cut about 1/3 of the bag and attach it to the new bag. So another week goes by. I have a small ammonia spike (.25), nitrates are 20, nitrites 0. I do a PWC every other day. I add Excel. flourish and Trace for the plants. Today while doing the PWC I notice that the fake coral decoration I have in there is all brown on the ends. Is this algae? diatoms? The Mollie is licking(?) all the plants and rocks. I read they like algae. So how do I get rid of the brown stuff? Will the milky haze ever go away? (It is much better now than it was a week ago) I do have some snails (MTS and unknowns that must have come in on the plants) Should I add some to the 20 G? I don't have soil in the 20 only regular gravel? All advice appreciated (And before I get chastised for my tanks being too small- I just got a 30G so as soon as my soil arrives and I get it planted and cycled everyone will move up) Grammy Pat _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080902-0, 09/02/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 12:43:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29626	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Check prices at your local Wal_Mart. Usually around $8.00 for a 10 gal. Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 9/2/2008 7:01:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not count on one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive mess. I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional fish tank but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd wait until I had one. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank don't you think? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not more than > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, more like > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and get a new > one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > Chris, > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy a new > 10 than it is to repair one. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29627	From: joe t	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: old tank

Hi Angela: You said "old" tank, but that's not saying what kind of tank and how old.   I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I still recommend trying out the tank outside if you can.  If you think putting it outside is a lot of work, wait till it start leaking, maybe, and you have to clean all that up. Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel tanks of yesteryear, don't even try it.  I can almost guarantee it is going to leak. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29628	From: N Taweel	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Angelfish disease?

Hi, I have 2 Angelfish in my 20 gallon community tank. two weeks ago, I noticed some dark grey (almost black) dots right under the skin of the white Angelfish. I did nothing but kept watching, today I'm sure that they increased in number (about 15 in total), I think it might be a parasite, but have never read about or had anything like it before. The dots are about 1 mm in diameter, they are located in several places: around the eye, inside the lower jaw (The jaw and skin are almost transparent, that's how I can see the dots), on the roots of the fins, and even down inside the anal fin. I'm located in the middle east, so I can't benefit from your medication advise unfortunately, perhaps if you could identify the disease (bacteria, parasite, etc..) I may be able to find the suitable medication here. Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29629	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?

In a message dated 9/2/2008 6:54:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, crjm28@... writes: After much thought I'm really considerring having tiger barbs (atleast 6) in my tank. I was thinking of putting a Betta in there at some point. Am I asking for trouble? Tigers will eat up the betta's fins. Please don't do it. Enid Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says.... SHIT, She's awake! **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29630	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] Angelfish disease?

Without actually seeing at least a photo of this disease/condition, it's impossible to come up with an accurate diagnosis for it. I know you've had some problems in the past, since you have crowded conditions. Are you keeping up with PWC's and checking your water parameters so as not to allow elevated levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Without clean water, this may be part of the problem. There are many diseases and conditions which can affect the skin and the fins of fish, some benign and some you need to be concerned about for their hostility. By the locations of these dark gray/black infestations, this seems to indicate the possibility of external Hexamita -- if it can be seen that these marks are indentations (small skin erosions) rather than foreign bodies lying on or in the skin, raising it. But again, without seeing this, I can't be sure. There is a 3-stage parasite that uses fish as an intermediate host; the other two animals in its lifecycle being water birds (Blue Herons, Eagrets, etc.) which feed on fish and certain species of snails. This condition manifests itself as small black dots under the skin and on the fins (within the tissue). This is a benign condition which causes no harm, but may be unsightly to a viewer. These dots do go away in time (there is no treatment for them anyway). You may also have Costia or a parasite closely related to it (Costiasis -- or Cyclochaetiasis, or Chilodontiasis, some of which may give the same appearance. Cyclochaete domerguei most frequently attacks members of the Carp and Tetra Families. Quinine Hydrochloride may be used, but heavy concentrations (1 1/2% - 2 1/2%) of salt solution for a quarter to a half hour are often effective. Another more common disease, of the many which may be affecting your fish, is the Trematode, Gyrodactylus or Skin Flukes (note; not Dactylogyrus -- which is Gill Flukes). Skin Flukes can cause small blood spots showing in the skin. If this is what the fish look like, a Formalin treatment is often effective, although there are other remedies, Fenbendazole being one. Fish having some of these diseases may be seen to be breathing heavily, since they're putting stress on the fish. Beign conditions, such as I pointed out earlier most often do not adversely affect the fish in any way. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29631	From: PATRICIA SALZMANN	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Brown stuff in my tank

No I only change out about 25% twice a week and vac half the gravel each time. Becasue of the ammonia spike I did a 25% change every other day until it went back down. Can I put some snails in this tank with a gravel bottom or does it have to be sand or soil? What about getting an oto or some other algae eater?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29632	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: old tank

Well, as for the age of the tank, I'm 22 and my parents had it before I was born. It's last resident was a largemouth bass before he passed away a year or two ago. It's been empty and dry since. It's a glass tank, but I can't remember if the black frame on the top and bottom are plastic or metal. There is a sump pump down there, but the idea of hauling it upstairs to the deck does sound safer lol Glad to hear you made it out of the storm safe and sound Lenny...the fish too!! Angela --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Hi Angela: > > You said "old" tank, but that's not saying what kind of tank and how old.   I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I still recommend trying out the tank outside if you can.  If you think putting it outside is a lot of work, wait till it start leaking, maybe, and you have to clean all that up. > > Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel tanks of yesteryear, don't even try it.  I can almost guarantee it is going to leak. > > joe t > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29633	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Maybe he just wants to do it I have resealed tanks that I have got from freecycle. It’s not that hard and I haven’t had any leaks. I even have a couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed tanks) to use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from Ace hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for tanks and some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I could tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of silicone left on the glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be present on the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting cut by sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) now for 2 years including a move to a new house and no leaks. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not count on one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive mess. I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional fish tank but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd wait until I had one. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@yahoo. <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank don't you think? --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not more than > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, more like > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and get a new > one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > Chris, > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy a new > 10 than it is to repair one. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29634	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

Would it be practical to get a small child's inflatable pool and fill it right there in the basement? After you determine whether or not the tank will hold water, you could just deflate and store the pool until it's needed again. Jackie Huey Dreamsteeds@... http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey --- On Wed, 9/3/08, littlesprite43086 <littlesprite43086@...> wrote: > From: littlesprite43086 <littlesprite43086@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 7:36 AM > Well, as for the age of the tank, I'm 22 and my parents > had it > before I was born. It's last resident was a largemouth > bass before > he passed away a year or two ago. It's been empty and > dry since. > It's a glass tank, but I can't remember if the > black frame on the > top and bottom are plastic or metal. There is a sump pump > down > there, but the idea of hauling it upstairs to the deck does > sound > safer lol Glad to hear you made it out of the storm safe > and sound > Lenny...the fish too!! > > > > Angela > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joe t > <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Angela: > > > > You said "old" tank, but that's not > saying what kind of tank and > how old.   I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I > still > recommend trying out the tank outside if you can.  If you > think > putting it outside is a lot of work, wait till it start > leaking, > maybe, and you have to clean all that up. > > > > Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel > tanks of > yesteryear, don't even try it.  I can almost guarantee > it is going > to leak. > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

Joe, I bet you hear back from a lot of people that are still using them "old" stainless steel framed tanks with the slate bottoms. Personally, I don't have any but I know they must still be in use in great numbers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joe t Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank Hi Angela: You said "old" tank, but that's not saying what kind of tank and how old. I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I still recommend trying out the tank outside if you can. If you think putting it outside is a lot of work, wait till it start leaking, maybe, and you have to clean all that up. Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel tanks of yesteryear, don't even try it. I can almost guarantee it is going to leak. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 11:57:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29636	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish disease?

They have a disease called black spot disease. Look at some of the pictures on the below pages and see if this is what you have. As you will see, there are at least two issues that are referred to as "black spot" disease and they result in different types of black spots. One is caused by an actual parasite where the fish forms a cyst over the parasite larvae and that one appears to form a bump. The other can simply be skin repair being done by the fishes own immune system where melanophore pigmentation cells migrate to a former injury as part of the healing process. These injuries could have been formed by parasite "bites" but other reasons, such as ammonia poisoning, physical injury, etc., can also result in melanophore migration. From what you describe, it seems like the melanophore migration may be what you are seeing since you say the black spots appear to be under the skin. I'm pretty sure we've already had this discussion but since there are new members in the group every day, I will repeat it. A 20G tank is not big enough for two angelfish... not even one angelfish. Keeping fish overstocked or in undersized tanks will result in stress to the fish which lowers their immune systems ability to fight off many common but easily handled issues for healthy fish. The longer you keep fish in these inadequate conditions, the more health issues you will constantly have to deal with. Please consider these issues when choosing fish in the future. Now here are the links... http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10364_10950-27376--,00.html http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/4844.htm#bla http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#blackspot http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/termsandtables/g/blackspot.htm This next page, below, formerly Pandora's Fish Palace, is no longer working as a regular website but fortunately the Wayback Archive has archived the page in full with images but it takes a long time to load... even with a high speed connection... so if you are able to open it, save a copy of the page on your own computer for future reference so you can review it much easier. You may have to refresh the page a few times to get all of the images to show up. If you see blank boxes with the red X in a corner, that means the image didn't load properly so you would have to refresh the page again. Images actually get downloaded to your own computer in the TIF files (temporary internet files) so after a few refreshes, hopefully, you will have gotten all of the images showing up. Then you can save the entire page by clicking the "File" Menu on IE and then "Save As..." and save it in at least two formats... webpage complete and web archive single page. Saving it as a text file isn't a bad choice either so you can read over or search the text more easily. It doesn't specifically mention the black-spot disease but it does have lots of pictures, diagnosis sections, treatment information listing the actual preferred meds so you can hopefully find a suitable replacement med. Down near the bottom left of the page, you'll see an image under the Unknown section that looks like "black spot" disease but there is not a lot of information about the disease out there so maybe it wasn't properly diagnosed when Pandora set up this page many years ago. http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html If the link breaks, here's the TinyURL http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee I strongly recommend that everyone, who can get a full page or mostly full page to open, save a copy of this page on their own computers as it may one day be lost forever on the net if the Wayback Archive ever fails. I keep hoping someone will get permission from Pandora to rebuild the page on another site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Angelfish disease? Hi, I have 2 Angelfish in my 20 gallon community tank. two weeks ago, I noticed some dark grey (almost black) dots right under the skin of the white Angelfish. I did nothing but kept watching, today I'm sure that they increased in number (about 15 in total), I think it might be a parasite, but have never read about or had anything like it before. The dots are about 1 mm in diameter, they are located in several places: around the eye, inside the lower jaw (The jaw and skin are almost transparent, that's how I can see the dots), on the roots of the fins, and even down inside the anal fin. I'm located in the middle east, so I can't benefit from your medication advise unfortunately, perhaps if you could identify the disease (bacteria, parasite, etc..) I may be able to find the suitable medication here. Thanks Noura [ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 12:27:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29637	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

Good idea! Might even borrow one from a neighbor if they don't have one already and save the few dollars. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jackie Huey Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank Would it be practical to get a small child's inflatable pool and fill it right there in the basement? After you determine whether or not the tank will hold water, you could just deflate and store the pool until it's needed again. Jackie Huey Dreamsteeds@... <mailto:Dreamsteeds%40sbcglobal.net> http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey <http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey> --- On Wed, 9/3/08, littlesprite43086 <littlesprite43086@... <mailto:littlesprite43086%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > From: littlesprite43086 <littlesprite43086@... > <mailto:littlesprite43086%40yahoo.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 7:36 AM Well, as for the age of > the tank, I'm 22 and my parents had it before I was born. It's last > resident was a largemouth bass before he passed away a year or two > ago. It's been empty and dry since. > It's a glass tank, but I can't remember if the black frame on the top > and bottom are plastic or metal. There is a sump pump down there, but > the idea of hauling it upstairs to the deck does sound safer lol Glad > to hear you made it out of the storm safe and sound Lenny...the fish > too!! > > > > Angela > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Angela: > > > > You said "old" tank, but that's not > saying what kind of tank and > how old. I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I > still > recommend trying out the tank outside if you can. If you think > putting it outside is a lot of work, wait till it start leaking, > maybe, and you have to clean all that up. > > > > Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel > tanks of > yesteryear, don't even try it. I can almost guarantee it is going to > leak. > > > > joe t _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 1:10:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29638	From: Chris	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Maybe he just wants to do it I have resealed tanks that I have got from > freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I even have a > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed tanks) to > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from Ace > hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for tanks and > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I could > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in rubbing > alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of silicone left on the > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be present on > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting cut by > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) now for > 2 years including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not count on > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive mess. > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional fish tank > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd wait > until I had one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@yahoo. <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > don't you think? > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > more than > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, more > like > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > get a new > > one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > Chris, > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy > a new > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29639	From: Chris	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature

there is a stream bed not too far from here that has alot of usuable gravel I can put in my tank. I would also like to use drift wood for the catfish I plan on putting in, plus some slate. Slate is plentyful in NE Ohio and so I gravel because of the glaciers. What would be a safe method of sanitizing wood and gravel from nature? Thanks In Advance Chris

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29640	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature

If you have a crawfish boiling rig... aka a turkey fryer for you Yankees ;-), you should boil any driftwood you might want to use for several hours. Otherwise, I would avoid it as it would likely contain pathogens that your fish would not have an immunity or resistance to. There are chemical treatments but they have to let it soak for such a long time that the chemicals would soak into the wood and likely leach out for a long time afterwards, affecting your tank. Same with the gravel... boil it... but you might be able to do that on your stove with slightly smaller pots than the 40-50 quart sized pots we use for boiling crawfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature there is a stream bed not too far from here that has alot of usuable gravel I can put in my tank. I would also like to use drift wood for the catfish I plan on putting in, plus some slate. Slate is plentyful in NE Ohio and so I gravel because of the glaciers. What would be a safe method of sanitizing wood and gravel from nature? Thanks In Advance Chris _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:23:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29641	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Maybe he just wants to do it I have resealed tanks that I have got > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I even have a > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed tanks) to > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from Ace > hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for tanks and > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I could > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of silicone > left on the > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be present on > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting cut by > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) now for > 2 years including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not count on > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive mess. > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional fish tank > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd wait > until I had one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@yahoo. <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > don't you think? > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > more than > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, more > like > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > get a new > > one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > Chris, > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy > a new > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29642	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

That’s a pretty good idea :-D Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jackie Huey Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank Would it be practical to get a small child's inflatable pool and fill it right there in the basement? After you determine whether or not the tank will hold water, you could just deflate and store the pool until it's needed again. Jackie Huey Dreamsteeds@ <mailto:Dreamsteeds%40sbcglobal.net> sbcglobal.net http://community. <http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey> webshots.com/user/jackiehuey --- On Wed, 9/3/08, littlesprite43086 <littlesprite43086@ <mailto:littlesprite43086%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> wrote: > From: littlesprite43086 <littlesprite43086@ <mailto:littlesprite43086%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 7:36 AM > Well, as for the age of the tank, I'm 22 and my parents > had it > before I was born. It's last resident was a largemouth > bass before > he passed away a year or two ago. It's been empty and > dry since. > It's a glass tank, but I can't remember if the > black frame on the > top and bottom are plastic or metal. There is a sump pump > down > there, but the idea of hauling it upstairs to the deck does > sound > safer lol Glad to hear you made it out of the storm safe > and sound > Lenny...the fish too!! > > > > Angela > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, joe t > <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Angela: > > > > You said "old" tank, but that's not > saying what kind of tank and > how old. I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I > still > recommend trying out the tank outside if you can. If you > think > putting it outside is a lot of work, wait till it start > leaking, > maybe, and you have to clean all that up. > > > > Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel > tanks of > yesteryear, don't even try it. I can almost guarantee > it is going > to leak. > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29643	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

I picked up an old steel framed tank on freecycle awhile back.never got around to replacing the glass that was broken on it. I kept it because they just look cool :-D This has a slate bottom. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank Joe, I bet you hear back from a lot of people that are still using them "old" stainless steel framed tanks with the slate bottoms. Personally, I don't have any but I know they must still be in use in great numbers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joe t Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:26 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank Hi Angela: You said "old" tank, but that's not saying what kind of tank and how old. I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I still recommend trying out the tank outside if you can. If you think putting it outside is a lot of work, wait till it start leaking, maybe, and you have to clean all that up. Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel tanks of yesteryear, don't even try it. I can almost guarantee it is going to leak. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 11:57:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29644	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

I am with you on that Chris :-D have been called a pack rat on more than a few occasions much to my fiancé’s chagrin hehehe. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Maybe he just wants to do it I have resealed tanks that I have got from > freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I even have a > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed tanks) to > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from Ace > hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for tanks and > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I could > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in rubbing > alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of silicone left on the > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be present on > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting cut by > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) now for > 2 years including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not count on > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive mess. > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional fish tank > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd wait > until I had one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@yahoo. <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > don't you think? > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > more than > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, more > like > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > get a new > > one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > Chris, > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy > a new > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29645	From: Margie	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature

How do you clean gravel and rocks that you just pick up anywhere......I like adding rocks from all over. And I usually boil them.. Is this a good or is there a better way.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Chris Date: 9/3/2008 1:12:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature there is a stream bed not too far from here that has alot of usuable gravel I can put in my tank. I would also like to use drift wood for the catfish I plan on putting in, plus some slate. Slate is plentyful in NE Ohio and so I gravel because of the glaciers. What would be a safe method of sanitizing wood and gravel from nature? Thanks In Advance Chris ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29646	From: Margie	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

When we had a yard we had our washer and sink plumbed to the out side. Good for the yard... -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...>: -------------- > Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would that > be considered "dumping" into a landfill? > > Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our homes > and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix > something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn into > picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. That's zero > landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , > "Eric Roberts" wrote: > > > > Maybe he just wants to do it…I have resealed tanks that I have got > > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I even > have a > > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed > tanks) to > > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from Ace > > hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for > tanks and > > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I > could > > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of silicone > > left > on the > > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be > present on > > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting > cut by > > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) > now for > > 2 years…including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] > On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not > count on > > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive > mess. > > > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional > fish tank > > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd > wait > > until I had one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris" com> > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > > don't you think? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups.com, > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > > more than > > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, more > > like > > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > > get a new > > > one. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Szabo" > > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy > > a new > > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29647	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish disease?

That Black-Spot disease appears to be the same thing I described, as having a three-stage cycle using a fish, a fish-eating bird and certain species of snails (as I understand it, not just any snails will play host to this). Strange that they should suddenly appear in an aquarium, unless the aquarium is being maintained outdoors (or unless those certain wild snails are found in that locale and were recently added to the tank), OR . . . these are recently acquired wild fish. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29648	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

I'm not so sure that normal dishwashing detergents and laundry detergents are good for the yard or the environment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank When we had a yard we had our washer and sink plumbed to the out side. Good for the yard... -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> /shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would > that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? > > Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our > homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix > something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn > into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. > That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" wrote: > > > > Maybe he just wants to do it I have resealed tanks that I have got > > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I > > even > have a > > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed > tanks) to > > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from > > Ace hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for > tanks and > > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I > could > > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of > > silicone left > on the > > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be > present on > > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting > cut by > > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) > now for > > 2 years including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not > count on > > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive > mess. > > > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional > fish tank > > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd > wait > > until I had one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris" com> > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > > don't you think? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups.com, > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > > more than > > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, > > > more > > like > > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > > get a new > > > one. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Szabo" > > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and > > > buy > > a new > > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 > PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:13:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:25:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29649	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: old tank

That is a great idea!!! Also, my dad has some old coral in a box from this tank as well. It used to be saltwater before I was around (lol) Is it possible to use it in a freshwater tank? It's been dry as long as I am old so I'm pretty sure any germs and stuff would be dead lol I know I'd have to soak it forever to get most of the salt off, but I think my Red Tail Shark would love having a piece as his own. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > I picked up an old steel framed tank on freecycle awhile back.never got > around to replacing the glass that was broken on it. I kept it because they > just look cool :-D This has a slate bottom. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > Joe, > > I bet you hear back from a lot of people that are still using them "old" > stainless steel framed tanks with the slate bottoms. Personally, I don't > have any but I know they must still be in use in great numbers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of joe t > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:26 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > Hi Angela: > > You said "old" tank, but that's not saying what kind of tank and how old. > I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I still recommend trying out the > tank outside if you can. If you think putting it outside is a lot of work, > wait till it start leaking, maybe, and you have to clean all that up. > > Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel tanks of yesteryear, > don't even try it. I can almost guarantee it is going to leak. > > joe t > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 11:57:21 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29650	From: Margie	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Actually it was..... We lived in the country in a mobile home at the time, and rather than fill up our Septic tank with soapy water, it was advised to let it go outside and we had a beautiful lawn.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/03/08 15:28:29 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I'm not so sure that normal dishwashing detergents and laundry detergents are good for the yard or the environment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank When we had a yard we had our washer and sink plumbed to the out side. Good for the yard... -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> /shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would > that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? > > Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our > homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix > something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn > into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. > That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" wrote: > > > > Maybe he just wants to do it…I have resealed tanks that I have got > > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I > > even > have a > > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed > tanks) to > > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from > > Ace hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for > tanks and > > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I > could > > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of > > silicone left > on the > > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be > present on > > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting > cut by > > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) > now for > > 2 years…including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not > count on > > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive > mess. > > > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional > fish tank > > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd > wait > > until I had one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris" com> > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > > don't you think? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups.com, > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > > more than > > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, > > > more > > like > > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > > get a new > > > one. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Szabo" > > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and > > > buy > > a new > > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 > PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:13:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:25:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29651	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Ohh.. OK. Well that's a little different if you lived out in the country and had a septic tank anyhow. There are certain soaps/detergents that are fine (they'll normally say so on the bottle) but the more stink-pretty stuff, etc., that is in it, the worse for the ground water. The plants will love all the extra water and the phosphates that are found in detergents but the surfactants and perfumes aren't as good for the ground water table, aquifers or in run-off into a local waterway. It's kind of like the fertilizers used in farming... great for the plants but not so great for the local water supplies or waterways.... but we gotta eat!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Actually it was..... We lived in the country in a mobile home at the time, and rather than fill up our Septic tank with soapy water, it was advised to let it go outside and we had a beautiful lawn.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/03/08 15:28:29 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I'm not so sure that normal dishwashing detergents and laundry detergents are good for the yard or the environment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank When we had a yard we had our washer and sink plumbed to the out side. Good for the yard... -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> > > /shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would > that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? > > Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our > homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix > something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn > into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. > That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" wrote: > > > > Maybe he just wants to do it…I have resealed tanks that I have got > > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I > > even > have a > > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed > tanks) to > > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from > > Ace hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for > tanks and > > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I > could > > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of > > silicone left > on the > > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be > present on > > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting > cut by > > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) > now for > > 2 years…including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not > count on > > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive > mess. > > > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional > fish tank > > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd > wait > > until I had one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris" com> > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > > don't you think? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups.com, > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > > more than > > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, > > > more > > like > > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > > get a new > > > one. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Szabo" > > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and > > > buy > > a new > > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 > PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:13:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:25:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 5:31:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 5:48:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29652	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Oh.. one last thing... it would actually be better for your lawns to plumb the toilet to the lawn rather than the sink and washing machine. The "natural" fertilizers found in flushed toilet water is even better for your lawn and garden! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Actually it was..... We lived in the country in a mobile home at the time, and rather than fill up our Septic tank with soapy water, it was advised to let it go outside and we had a beautiful lawn.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/03/08 15:28:29 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I'm not so sure that normal dishwashing detergents and laundry detergents are good for the yard or the environment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank When we had a yard we had our washer and sink plumbed to the out side. Good for the yard... -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> > > /shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would > that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? > > Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our > homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix > something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn > into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. > That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" wrote: > > > > Maybe he just wants to do it…I have resealed tanks that I have got > > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I > > even > have a > > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed > tanks) to > > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from > > Ace hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for > tanks and > > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I > could > > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of > > silicone left > on the > > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be > present on > > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting > cut by > > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) > now for > > 2 years…including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not > count on > > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive > mess. > > > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional > fish tank > > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd > wait > > until I had one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris" com> > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > > don't you think? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups.com, > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > > more than > > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, > > > more > > like > > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > > get a new > > > one. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Szabo" > > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and > > > buy > > a new > > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 > PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:13:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:25:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 5:31:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 5:50:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29653	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Maybe not the environment, but it might kill some of the insects in lawns that inhibit growth, plus phosphates are a fertilizer… Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Actually it was..... We lived in the country in a mobile home at the time, and rather than fill up our Septic tank with soapy water, it was advised to let it go outside and we had a beautiful lawn.  Margie http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/03/08 15:28:29 To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I'm not so sure that normal dishwashing detergents and laundry detergents are good for the yard or the environment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank When we had a yard we had our washer and sink plumbed to the out side. Good for the yard... -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> .com/o1518107464> /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would > that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? > > Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our > homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix > something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn > into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. > That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" wrote: > > > > Maybe he just wants to do it…I have resealed tanks that I have got > > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I > > even > have a > > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed > tanks) to > > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from > > Ace hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for > tanks and > > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I > could > > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of > > silicone left > on the > > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be > present on > > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting > cut by > > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) > now for > > 2 years…including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not > count on > > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive > mess. > > > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional > fish tank > > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd > wait > > until I had one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris" com> > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > > don't you think? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups.com, > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > > more than > > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, > > > more > > like > > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > > get a new > > > one. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Szabo" > > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and > > > buy > > a new > > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 > PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:13:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:25:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29654	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature

On this note where can I find limestone as gravel? Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:26:37 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature How do you clean gravel and rocks that you just pick up anywhere......I like adding rocks from all over. And I usually boil them.. Is this a good or is there a better way.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Chris Date: 9/3/2008 1:12:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature there is a stream bed not too far from here that has alot of usuable gravel I can put in my tank. I would also like to use drift wood for the catfish I plan on putting in, plus some slate. Slate is plentyful in NE Ohio and so I gravel because of the glaciers. What would be a safe method of sanitizing wood and gravel from nature? Thanks In Advance Chris ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29655	From: Margie	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

We lived in Turkey (the country) for two years and they used human waste for fertilizer Big and beautiful. We would take it and soak it in water with bleach in it The only thing that you could not soak in bleach water are strawberries. So we did not eat strawberries. Drinking water (in town) also added a little bleach to it.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/3/2008 5:50:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Oh.. one last thing... it would actually be better for your lawns to plumb the toilet to the lawn rather than the sink and washing machine. The natural" fertilizers found in flushed toilet water is even better for your lawn and garden! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Actually it was..... We lived in the country in a mobile home at the time, and rather than fill up our Septic tank with soapy water, it was advised to let it go outside and we had a beautiful lawn.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/03/08 15:28:29 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I'm not so sure that normal dishwashing detergents and laundry detergents are good for the yard or the environment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank When we had a yard we had our washer and sink plumbed to the out side. Good for the yard... -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> > > /shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would > that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? > > Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our > homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix > something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn > into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. > That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" wrote: > > > > Maybe he just wants to do it…I have resealed tanks that I have got > > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I > > even > have a > > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed > tanks) to > > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from > > Ace hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for > tanks and > > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I > could > > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of > > silicone left > on the > > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be > present on > > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting > cut by > > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) > now for > > 2 years…including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not > count on > > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive > mess. > > > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional > fish tank > > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd > wait > > until I had one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris" com> > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > > don't you think? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups.com, > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > > more than > > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, > > > more > > like > > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > > get a new > > > one. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Szabo" > > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and > > > buy > > a new > > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 > PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:13:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:25:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 5:31:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 5:50:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29656	From: Margie	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

PS.... I used horse manure for fertilizer. We had horses.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/3/2008 5:50:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Oh.. one last thing... it would actually be better for your lawns to plumb the toilet to the lawn rather than the sink and washing machine. The natural" fertilizers found in flushed toilet water is even better for your lawn and garden! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Actually it was..... We lived in the country in a mobile home at the time, and rather than fill up our Septic tank with soapy water, it was advised to let it go outside and we had a beautiful lawn.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/03/08 15:28:29 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I'm not so sure that normal dishwashing detergents and laundry detergents are good for the yard or the environment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank When we had a yard we had our washer and sink plumbed to the out side. Good for the yard... -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> > > /shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would > that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? > > Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our > homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix > something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn > into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. > That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" wrote: > > > > Maybe he just wants to do it…I have resealed tanks that I have got > > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I > > even > have a > > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed > tanks) to > > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from > > Ace hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for > tanks and > > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I > could > > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of > > silicone left > on the > > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be > present on > > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting > cut by > > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) > now for > > 2 years…including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not > count on > > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive > mess. > > > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional > fish tank > > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd > wait > > until I had one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris" com> > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > > don't you think? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups.com, > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > > more than > > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, > > > more > > like > > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > > get a new > > > one. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Szabo" > > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and > > > buy > > a new > > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 > PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:13:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:25:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 5:31:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 5:50:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29657	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature

I know they sell limestone at garden supply outlets in broken up pieces for garden beds, driveways, etc. but why do you want to use it for your substrate? It would constantly leach into your tank's water making it very hard... possibly too hard... depending on the kinds of fish you are planning. It's OK for some fish but not all fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 6:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature On this note where can I find limestone as gravel? Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@... <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:26:37 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature How do you clean gravel and rocks that you just pick up anywhere......I like adding rocks from all over. And I usually boil them.. Is this a good or is there a better way.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Chris Date: 9/3/2008 1:12:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature there is a stream bed not too far from here that has alot of usuable gravel I can put in my tank. I would also like to use drift wood for the catfish I plan on putting in, plus some slate. Slate is plentyful in NE Ohio and so I gravel because of the glaciers. What would be a safe method of sanitizing wood and gravel from nature? Thanks In Advance Chris _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 6:41:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29658	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

What about a septic system, LOL! I have that and a well. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Maybe he just wants to do it I have resealed tanks that I have got > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I even have a > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed tanks) to > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from Ace > hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for tanks and > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I could > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of silicone > left on the > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be present on > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting cut by > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) now for > 2 years including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not count on > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive mess. > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional fish tank > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd wait > until I had one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@yahoo. <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > don't you think? > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > more than > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, more > like > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > get a new > > one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > Chris, > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy > a new > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29659	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

In NJ you have to have two tanks…one for septic and one for “gray” water from washing machine, shower drain, etc. Still required for the gray water to go through the septic system so the earth, etc. can do it’s magic at removing phosphates, etc. before it can run into the streams. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 5:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Actually it was..... We lived in the country in a mobile home at the time, and rather than fill up our Septic tank with soapy water, it was advised to let it go outside and we had a beautiful lawn.  Margie http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/03/08 15:28:29 To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I'm not so sure that normal dishwashing detergents and laundry detergents are good for the yard or the environment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank When we had a yard we had our washer and sink plumbed to the out side. Good for the yard... -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> .com/o1518107464> /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would > that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? > > Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our > homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix > something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn > into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. > That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" wrote: > > > > Maybe he just wants to do it…I have resealed tanks that I have got > > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I > > even > have a > > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed > tanks) to > > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from > > Ace hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for > tanks and > > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I > could > > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of > > silicone left > on the > > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be > present on > > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting > cut by > > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) > now for > > 2 years…including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not > count on > > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive > mess. > > > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional > fish tank > > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd > wait > > until I had one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris" com> > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > > don't you think? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups.com, > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > > more than > > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, > > > more > > like > > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > > get a new > > > one. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Szabo" > > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and > > > buy > > a new > > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 > PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:13:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:25:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29660	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Well, all you have to do is hook a pipe between the septic system and the well... now that's recycling!!! Look kids!... we have chocolate milk and lemonade coming out the faucet now!!! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank What about a septic system, LOL! I have that and a well. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Maybe he just wants to do it I have resealed tanks that I have got > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I even have a > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed tanks) to > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from Ace > hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for tanks and > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I could > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of silicone > left on the > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be present on > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting cut by > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) now for > 2 years including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not count on > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive mess. > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional fish tank > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd wait > until I had one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@yahoo. <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > don't you think? > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > more than > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, more > like > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > get a new > > one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > Chris, > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and buy > a new > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 8:48:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29661	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

Awwww.. leave it to NJ to mess up the chocolate milk and lemonade right out the faucet. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank In NJ you have to have two tanks…one for septic and one for “gray” water from washing machine, shower drain, etc. Still required for the gray water to go through the septic system so the earth, etc. can do it’s magic at removing phosphates, etc. before it can run into the streams. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 5:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank Actually it was..... We lived in the country in a mobile home at the time, and rather than fill up our Septic tank with soapy water, it was advised to let it go outside and we had a beautiful lawn.  Margie http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > ll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > .com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/03/08 15:28:29 To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank I'm not so sure that normal dishwashing detergents and laundry detergents are good for the yard or the environment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank When we had a yard we had our washer and sink plumbed to the out side. Good for the yard... -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> > > .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> > > .com/o1518107464> /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > ll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would > that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? > > Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our > homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Chris > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix > something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn > into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. > That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically friendly. > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" wrote: > > > > Maybe he just wants to do it…I have resealed tanks that I have got > > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I > > even > have a > > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed > tanks) to > > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from > > Ace hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for > tanks and > > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I > could > > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of > > silicone left > on the > > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be > present on > > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting > cut by > > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) > now for > > 2 years…including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not > count on > > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive > mess. > > > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional > fish tank > > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd > wait > > until I had one. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris" com> > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > > don't you think? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups.com, > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > > more than > > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, > > > more > > like > > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > > get a new > > > one. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Szabo" > > > To: > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and > > > buy > > a new > > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 8:51:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29662	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature

Why in particular do you want to use limestone as gravel? It will alter the ph of your water. Not usually a good thing in a tropical tank. I think that in salt water it's a different story. If you really WANT limestone, fish stores and departments are more likely to carry gravel of that variety than to carry nonreactive gravel like quartz. It goes by a variety of names. I think sometimes it may even be chopped coral! You can tell if it is basic limestone by dripping acid toilet bowl cleaner on it; it will fizz. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature On this note where can I find limestone as gravel? Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29663	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

Use of coral or coral sand is generally frowned upon in a freshwater tank. The presence of the coral will increase the hardness of the water and may also affect the pH by raising it. If you are trying to raise the hardness of your water, you can try the coral, but keep an eye on your water parameters so that they do not get out of line, though the hardcore aesthetes would frown upon that as the coral is not a natural freshwater element in the wild, and its presence in a tank would be a travesty. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank That is a great idea!!! Also, my dad has some old coral in a box from this tank as well. It used to be saltwater before I was around (lol) Is it possible to use it in a freshwater tank? It's been dry as long as I am old so I'm pretty sure any germs and stuff would be dead lol I know I'd have to soak it forever to get most of the salt off, but I think my Red Tail Shark would love having a piece as his own. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > I picked up an old steel framed tank on freecycle awhile back.never got > around to replacing the glass that was broken on it. I kept it because they > just look cool :-D This has a slate bottom. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > Joe, > > I bet you hear back from a lot of people that are still using them "old" > stainless steel framed tanks with the slate bottoms. Personally, I don't > have any but I know they must still be in use in great numbers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of joe t > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:26 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > Hi Angela: > > You said "old" tank, but that's not saying what kind of tank and how old. > I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I still recommend trying out the > tank outside if you can. If you think putting it outside is a lot of work, > wait till it start leaking, maybe, and you have to clean all that up. > > Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel tanks of yesteryear, > don't even try it. I can almost guarantee it is going to leak. > > joe t > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 11:57:21 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29664	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Brown stuff in my tank

Hi Patricia, It's best when replying to include all or at least some of the original message you are replying to. I get a couple hundred emails a day and I try hard to remember the context of them all but sometimes things kind of morph together. I believe you were answering my earlier reply to your first post so I'll reply from memory. Snails are not usually known for eating diatoms, nor will otos or most other "algae eaters" since diatoms are not algae. On a side note, be careful when referring to "algae eaters" as if they are a species as there are literally hundreds of different species of fish that can individually be called an algae eater but they may be of no relation to the other species. When you want info on an "algae eater" you need to include the species or common name so folks can better help. Snails will do fine in a tank with gravel and will actually help clean the glass along the edges of the gravel... at least my Golden Mystery Snails did this when I had them. If you have a sand substrate, a good snail to have are MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snails) as they will burrow into the sand looking for food and this helps keep the sand from becoming compacted and possibly forming anaerobic bacteria pockets which can cause toxic methane gas release into a tank. If you don't have MTS snails, then it's good to manually stir the sand every week or so. I sent you a link to a long article that also has links to other articles about diatoms. Check it out for more details. Unless your water source is high in silicates, which isn't very common with most water sources, your bout with diatoms will end soon. There is no need to buy any kind of specialized species to handle the natural and short lived issue with a new tank. Just brush them off and vacuum them up with your gravel vacuum. If the diatoms last more than a month, then you should check with your water utility to find out if you have a high silicate level. Speaking of sand... it's probably better to avoid it also as I've seen diatoms become an issue with some people when they first set up a sand substrate as sand is guess what??? Silicates! But, after a while, the silicate levels from leaching drop down and the diatoms become a non-issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of PATRICIA SALZMANN Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brown stuff in my tank No I only change out about 25% twice a week and vac half the gravel each time. Becasue of the ammonia spike I did a 25% change every other day until it went back down. Can I put some snails in this tank with a gravel bottom or does it have to be sand or soil? What about getting an oto or some other algae eater? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 11:32:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29665	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature

Thanks Dora, maybe I misunderstood, I thought it would help buffer my tank. I am a beginner here. I can't seem to get it right with the alkalinity, ph, and nitrites yet. I also wanted to get some Vallisneria, I read here it's pretty amazing. Thanks for the tip guys! :-) Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 21:30:17 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature Why in particular do you want to use limestone as gravel? It will alter the ph of your water. Not usually a good thing in a tropical tank. I think that in salt water it's a different story. If you really WANT limestone, fish stores and departments are more likely to carry gravel of that variety than to carry nonreactive gravel like quartz. It goes by a variety of names. I think sometimes it may even be chopped coral! You can tell if it is basic limestone by dripping acid toilet bowl cleaner on it; it will fizz. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature On this note where can I find limestone as gravel? Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29666	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature

Oh, ok, thanks Lenny, I had read that it would help buffer the ph, but I am glad I asked before making a mistake. Thank you, I'm still learning. My tank is freshwater. Sincerely, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 18:41:03 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature I know they sell limestone at garden supply outlets in broken up pieces for garden beds, driveways, etc. but why do you want to use it for your substrate? It would constantly leach into your tank's water making it very hard... possibly too hard... depending on the kinds of fish you are planning. It's OK for some fish but not all fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 6:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature On this note where can I find limestone as gravel? Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@... <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:26:37 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature How do you clean gravel and rocks that you just pick up anywhere......I like adding rocks from all over. And I usually boil them.. Is this a good or is there a better way.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Chris Date: 9/3/2008 1:12:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature there is a stream bed not too far from here that has alot of usuable gravel I can put in my tank. I would also like to use drift wood for the catfish I plan on putting in, plus some slate. Slate is plentyful in NE Ohio and so I gravel because of the glaciers. What would be a safe method of sanitizing wood and gravel from nature? Thanks In Advance Chris _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 6:41:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29667	From: Chris	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature

that would be sooooooooo sweet! Crushed Quarts! There is a place about 3 hours from me that mines minerals and lets people pan it themselves. Mix that in with glass and awsome! Atleast MHO! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Why in particular do you want to use limestone as gravel? It will alter the > ph of your water. Not usually a good thing in a tropical tank. > > I think that in salt water it's a different story. > > If you really WANT limestone, fish stores and departments are more likely to > carry gravel of that variety than to carry nonreactive gravel like quartz. > It goes by a variety of names. I think sometimes it may even be chopped > coral! You can tell if it is basic limestone by dripping acid toilet bowl > cleaner on it; it will fizz. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <bubuci@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 6:03 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature > > > On this note where can I find limestone as gravel? > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29668	From: Chris	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

The wonderful thing about bleach is that you can use a few drops to make clean stream water for drinking. A few drops per gallon is all it takes! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > We lived in Turkey (the country) for two years and they used human waste for > fertilizer > Big and beautiful. We would take it and soak it in water with bleach in it > The only thing that you could not soak in bleach water are strawberries. > So we did not eat strawberries. > Drinking water (in town) also added a little bleach to it. >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 9/3/2008 5:50:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > Oh.. one last thing... it would actually be better for your lawns to plumb > the toilet to the lawn rather than the sink and washing machine. The > natural" fertilizers found in flushed toilet water is even better for your > lawn and garden! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > Actually it was..... We lived in the country in a mobile home at the time, > and rather than fill up our Septic tank with soapy water, it was advised to > let it go outside and we had a beautiful lawn. > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari > com/o1518107464/shelf> > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 09/03/08 15:28:29 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I'm not so sure that normal dishwashing detergents and laundry detergents > are good for the yard or the environment. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > When we had a yard we had our washer and sink plumbed to the out side. Good > for the yard... > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> > > > /shelf > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > > > Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would > > that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? > > > > Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our > > homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix > > something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn > > into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. > > That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically > friendly. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" wrote: > > > > > > Maybe he just wants to do it…I have resealed tanks that I have got > > > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I > > > even > > have a > > > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed > > tanks) to > > > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from > > > Ace hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for > > tanks and > > > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I > > could > > > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > > > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of > > > silicone left > > on the > > > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be > > present on > > > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting > > cut by > > > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) > > now for > > > 2 years…including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not > > count on > > > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > > > > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive > > mess. > > > > > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional > > fish tank > > > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd > > wait > > > until I had one. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Chris" com> > > > To: > > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > > > don't you think? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups.com, > > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > > > more than > > > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, > > > > more > > > like > > > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > > > get a new > > > > one. > > > > > > > > Yours, > > > > Dora Smith > > > > Austin, TX > > > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Steve Szabo" > > > > To: > > yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and > > > > buy > > > a new > > > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 > > PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www > avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:13:02 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www > avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:25:24 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 5:31:58 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 5:50:31 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29669	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Pond overrun w/ algae

I have a little satellite pond that gets hit with all kinds of algae and stringy mossy type crap. I threw some tubifex worms in there awhile back, and also some of those brown snails........that pond is clean as a whistle now....I even have to throw in some veggies so the worms don't starve...... It might take awhile, and if you got ducks, they'll prolly eat the snails. Maybe they won't eat the worms....... At any rate, copper sulfate will kill plants, fwiw.........z

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29670	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Pond overrun w/ algae

As for the leaks...mix up some Bentonite in 5 gallon buckets using a power mixer attached to a drill. Pour it in there. It will take awhile to clear, but it will plug all leaks...........z

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29671	From: Chris	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

I really cannot see how grey water wouldn't be harmful to the enviornment.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29672	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

If you have to use it, it's probably better to put crushed coral or limestone in a filter media bag and either hide it behind a decoration or plant or put it in a filter reservoir if you need it leaching even faster into the water. Once you put it loose in the substrate, it's much too hard to regulate. At least with it in a media bag, if it starts changing things too fast, you can remove it as needed or lessen the amount or add a second bag if it's not working as needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank Use of coral or coral sand is generally frowned upon in a freshwater tank. The presence of the coral will increase the hardness of the water and may also affect the pH by raising it. If you are trying to raise the hardness of your water, you can try the coral, but keep an eye on your water parameters so that they do not get out of line, though the hardcore aesthetes would frown upon that as the coral is not a natural freshwater element in the wild, and its presence in a tank would be a travesty. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank That is a great idea!!! Also, my dad has some old coral in a box from this tank as well. It used to be saltwater before I was around (lol) Is it possible to use it in a freshwater tank? It's been dry as long as I am old so I'm pretty sure any germs and stuff would be dead lol I know I'd have to soak it forever to get most of the salt off, but I think my Red Tail Shark would love having a piece as his own. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > I picked up an old steel framed tank on freecycle awhile back.never got > around to replacing the glass that was broken on it. I kept it because they > just look cool :-D This has a slate bottom. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > Joe, > > I bet you hear back from a lot of people that are still using them "old" > stainless steel framed tanks with the slate bottoms. Personally, I don't > have any but I know they must still be in use in great numbers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of joe t > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:26 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > Hi Angela: > > You said "old" tank, but that's not saying what kind of tank and how old. > I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I still recommend trying out the > tank outside if you can. If you think putting it outside is a lot of work, > wait till it start leaking, maybe, and you have to clean all that up. > > Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel tanks of yesteryear, > don't even try it. I can almost guarantee it is going to leak. > > joe t _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 11:40:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29673	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/3/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Hans, > > Gravel cleaning is important to good upkeep of your aquarium. It is true that you will find bacteria living on the gravel, but cleaning 1/4 to 1/3 of the gravel per water change will not affect the capability of the tank to process ammonia down to nitrate. Also a good gravel cleaning will remove the detritus that finds its way into the gravel to eventually be processed by anaerobic bacteria and eventually lead to the escape of hydrogen sulfide gas and other noxious chemicals that can be harmful to your fish. > > \\Steve// > Hmmmm...Well, maybe. All I can say is there's parts of my tank where I've NEVER cleaned the gravel....I mean there's plants there....lol. However some of my fish have done a dandy job in cleaning it in other places......dug right down the the glass bottom...lolol..... I also stocked Malaysian Liver bearer snails, and they do a good job aerating it....got too many now though...gotta scrape them off the glass and put them in the satellite pond.... I still believe in the natural way.....z

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29674	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: old tank

Bummer...I found the perfect piece to put in there too. Lots of places for the RTS to call his own. Can't really put half of a pot in there like I want for Mr. Pleco, and even in the 55 gal it's going to be hard. At least he can have lots of plants and driftwood in the bigger tank. The RTS is just going to have to keep his plant cove for now lol Thanks guys...you are ALL awesome --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If you have to use it, it's probably better to put crushed coral or > limestone in a filter media bag and either hide it behind a decoration or > plant or put it in a filter reservoir if you need it leaching even faster > into the water. Once you put it loose in the substrate, it's much too hard > to regulate. At least with it in a media bag, if it starts changing things > too fast, you can remove it as needed or lessen the amount or add a second > bag if it's not working as needed. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > Use of coral or coral sand is generally frowned upon in a freshwater tank. > The presence of the coral will increase the hardness of the water and may > also affect the pH by raising it. If you are trying to raise the hardness of > your water, you can try the coral, but keep an eye on your water parameters > so that they do not get out of line, though the hardcore aesthetes would > frown upon that as the coral is not a natural freshwater element in the > wild, and its presence in a tank would be a travesty. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > That is a great idea!!! Also, my dad has some old coral in a box from this > tank as well. It used to be saltwater before I was around (lol) Is it > possible to use it in a freshwater tank? It's been dry as long as I am old > so I'm pretty sure any germs and stuff would be dead lol I know I'd have to > soak it forever to get most of the salt off, but I think my Red Tail Shark > would love having a piece as his own. > > --- > In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > I picked up an old steel framed tank on freecycle awhile > back.never got > > around to replacing the glass that was broken on it. I kept it > because they > > just look cool :-D This has a slate bottom. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > I bet you hear back from a lot of people that are still using > them "old" > > stainless steel framed tanks with the slate bottoms. Personally, I > don't > > have any but I know they must still be in use in great numbers. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of joe t > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:26 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > Hi Angela: > > > > You said "old" tank, but that's not saying what kind of tank and > how old. > > I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I still recommend trying > out the > > tank outside if you can. If you think putting it outside is a lot > of work, > > wait till it start leaking, maybe, and you have to clean all that > up. > > > > Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel tanks of > yesteryear, > > don't even try it. I can almost guarantee it is going to leak. > > > > joe t > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 11:40:45 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29675	From: Margie	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank

If I remember right we put in about 10 drops per gallon. But what I do remember is that water was the absolutely the best tasting water ever.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Chris Date: 9/3/2008 11:35:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank The wonderful thing about bleach is that you can use a few drops to make clean stream water for drinking. A few drops per gallon is all it takes! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > We lived in Turkey (the country) for two years and they used human waste for > fertilizer > Big and beautiful. We would take it and soak it in water with bleach in it > The only thing that you could not soak in bleach water are strawberries. > So we did not eat strawberries. > Drinking water (in town) also added a little bleach to it. >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 9/3/2008 5:50:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > Oh.. one last thing... it would actually be better for your lawns to plumb > the toilet to the lawn rather than the sink and washing machine. The > natural" fertilizers found in flushed toilet water is even better for your > lawn and garden! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > Actually it was..... We lived in the country in a mobile home at the time, > and rather than fill up our Septic tank with soapy water, it was advised to > let it go outside and we had a beautiful lawn. > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari > com/o1518107464/shelf> > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 09/03/08 15:28:29 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > I'm not so sure that normal dishwashing detergents and laundry detergents > are good for the yard or the environment. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > When we had a yard we had our washer and sink plumbed to the out side. Good > for the yard... > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> > > > /shelf > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > > > Does that mean you have your toilet plumbed to your garden... or would > > that be considered "dumping" into a landfill? > > > > Or maybe some things are best left to go to a place far away from our > > homes and let someone else deal with the recycling of it. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:49 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > I do not believe in throwing stuff away that is reusable. If I can fix > > something, I will. The left over pieces that are still whole I'll turn > > into picture glass, and the broken pieces will go to get recycled. > > That's zero landfill!. Its ecologically friendly and economically > friendly. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" wrote: > > > > > > Maybe he just wants to do it…I have resealed tanks that I have got > > > from freecycle. It's not that hard and I haven't had any leaks. I > > > even > > have a > > > couple of antique tanks that I want to fix up (old metal framed > > tanks) to > > > use as plant filters. All I did was get a razor paint scraper from > > > Ace hardware for a buck or 2, a couple of tubes of silicone made for > > tanks and > > > some rubbing alcohol. I scraped them down to the glass as far as I > > could > > > tell and then cleaned them real good with a thick rag soaked in > > > rubbing alcohol. The alcohol will remove the small amounts of > > > silicone left > > on the > > > glass. I used a thick rag to avoid any sharp edges that may be > > present on > > > the glass. The paint scraper also protects your hands from getting > > cut by > > > sharp edges or the razor itself. I have had the tank (a 55 gallon) > > now for > > > 2 years…including a move to a new house and no leaks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:02 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on how you computer it. First of all, I'd not > > count on > > > one tube doing the job, though it may. Not Iáve actually ever done it. > > > > > > Second, if the job fails, the water will make a much more expensive > > mess. > > > > > > I are really at the point where you can spend $6 for an optional > > fish tank > > > but you can't spend $10? I mean, if it's that you've got no job, I'd > > wait > > > until I had one. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Chris" com> > > > To: > > yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:08 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > Silicon is $6 in my area. That is half the cost of buying a new tank > > > don't you think? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups.com, > > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > > > > > That's true. A new tank can be had for around $10, I 'd say, not > > > more than > > > > $15, and the cement to make a new one going to cost atleast $7, > > > > more > > > like > > > > $14, and then there's if it fails... I 'd just go to Petsmart and > > > get a new > > > > one. > > > > > > > > Yours, > > > > Dora Smith > > > > Austin, TX > > > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Steve Szabo" > > > > To: > > yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:02 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dismanteling An Old Tank > > > > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > > > It is far more cost effective to just toss your broken tanks and > > > > buy > > > a new > > > > 10 than it is to repair one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 2:27:21 > > PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www > avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:13:02 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www > avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 3:25:24 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 5:31:58 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 5:50:31 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29676	From: N Taweel	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish disease?

Thanks for the detailed replies, Ray and Lenny. I can't provide a clear photo of these tiny things, I can hardly see them with the bare eye, they are even smaller than 1 mm. But I can assure you that they are not bloody-red, neither making erosions, neither cause the skin to raise. Some dots are deeper in the skin than others, but even the shallow ones don't seem to cause the skin to rise. In the past two weeks I tried to pull the first dot from the back of the fish with tweezers and I succeeded to do it be scrubbing it , it felt as if I'm scrubbing a very thin layer of skin before reaching the parasite, because it wasn't removed directly when touching it with the tweezers. It left a small shallow wound. but couldn't see the removed body, it kind of smashed in the water. This was the only dot that appeared out of the skin (but half of it was in the tissue). There are snails in the tank. and I didn't add any new fish since months, neither plants, so there are not any wild fish or snails newly added. The water parameters are good, even before the weekly 30% PWC. (0 Nitrit, 25 Nitrate, GH between 10 and 16, KH between 10-15, pH 8.3) Temperature 86-90 when I'm not putting iced bottles. The fish looks healthy, eating, moving, and breathing normally. She's even laying eggs every couple of weeks (she did it twice without a male Angelfish). The links and photos that Lenny provided don't describe the spots of my Angelfish. It's certainly not black-spot disease. I'm remaining with the possibility of other parasites, maybe Costia. Is the 'image' clearer now? can you identify it. P.S: I saved the Pandora page, most of the pictures appeared after several refreshes, thanks for the technical help Lenny! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29677	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: catching rain water

I've been cycling a 55 gal tank. Needs it's 90% water change now. That's approx 50 gallons of water. I put plants in it before I started reading about fishless cycling. I knew those bulb types need weeks to grow and I thought I'd just do that while waiting for it to be ready for fish. I'm thinking that never-clorinated water might cut down on the eventual chemical load in a tank versus clorinated water with declor chemicals. Less is more. Handily our weather forecaster predicted 5" of rain this Saturday. I have an old 10 gal tank that I put out in the back yard to catch it. I started the cycle with tap water left out to naturally declor, plus I used 10 gals from this tank which I had accidentally left out in a big storm after washing it out with the hose. But 10 gals that's still not near enough for my refill. I'm afraid if I put in the clorinated tap water I'll kill the good bacteria I've been trying to grow all this time. So want to catch more of the rainwater. I have a bunch of those newfangled plastic coffee cans.. but they still smell like coffee. Does anyone think traces of the aromatic hydrocarbons in coffee could harm fish? Washing doesn't get the coffee smell out (have tried in past).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29678	From: joe t	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

You bet, Lenny!    ......and I am one of them.     I have two working.    Had four, but two started to leak, and ------must be my age--------I just didn't want to bother trying to patch them up.  They're beautiful tanks, and a real sight if you keep the stainless steel all shined up.  But that's like chrome on the old cars.  No one has all that chrome anymore.......unless it's an older car.  If you are not into that sort of thing, shining all that chrome, etc is too much like work to me.  LOL joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29679	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish disease?

I don't think I would try pulling these black spots as they could just be melanophore migration which is just pigmentation spots where tissue is healing. Kind of like an injury or scar on a person turns reddish colored when healing. You could be opening up unnecessary injuries by pulling the skin around the black spots and/or causing the fish more stress than the black spots are doing. If they are some kind of external parasite, a salt treatment would be more in order. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angelfish disease? Thanks for the detailed replies, Ray and Lenny. I can't provide a clear photo of these tiny things, I can hardly see them with the bare eye, they are even smaller than 1 mm. But I can assure you that they are not bloody-red, neither making erosions, neither cause the skin to raise. Some dots are deeper in the skin than others, but even the shallow ones don't seem to cause the skin to rise. In the past two weeks I tried to pull the first dot from the back of the fish with tweezers and I succeeded to do it be scrubbing it , it felt as if I'm scrubbing a very thin layer of skin before reaching the parasite, because it wasn't removed directly when touching it with the tweezers. It left a small shallow wound. but couldn't see the removed body, it kind of smashed in the water. This was the only dot that appeared out of the skin (but half of it was in the tissue). There are snails in the tank. and I didn't add any new fish since months, neither plants, so there are not any wild fish or snails newly added. The water parameters are good, even before the weekly 30% PWC. (0 Nitrit, 25 Nitrate, GH between 10 and 16, KH between 10-15, pH 8.3) Temperature 86-90 when I'm not putting iced bottles. The fish looks healthy, eating, moving, and breathing normally. She's even laying eggs every couple of weeks (she did it twice without a male Angelfish). The links and photos that Lenny provided don't describe the spots of my Angelfish. It's certainly not black-spot disease. I'm remaining with the possibility of other parasites, maybe Costia. Is the 'image' clearer now? can you identify it. P.S: I saved the Pandora page, most of the pictures appeared after several refreshes, thanks for the technical help Lenny! Noura _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080904-0, 09/04/2008 Tested on: 9/4/2008 2:42:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29680	From: Chris	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

Why not use your down spout and a really big bucket? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Brooks" <diana_brooks@...> wrote: > > I've been cycling a 55 gal tank. Needs it's 90% water change now. > That's approx 50 gallons of water. I put plants in it before I > started reading about fishless cycling. I knew those bulb types need > weeks to grow and I thought I'd just do that while waiting for it to > be ready for fish. > > I'm thinking that never-clorinated water might cut down on the > eventual chemical load in a tank versus clorinated water with declor > chemicals. Less is more. > > Handily our weather forecaster predicted 5" of rain this Saturday. I > have an old 10 gal tank that I put out in the back yard to catch it. > I started the cycle with tap water left out to naturally declor, > plus I used 10 gals from this tank which I had accidentally left out > in a big storm after washing it out with the hose. But 10 gals > that's still not near enough for my refill. > > I'm afraid if I put in the clorinated tap water I'll kill the good > bacteria I've been trying to grow all this time. So want to catch > more of the rainwater. I have a bunch of those newfangled plastic > coffee cans.. but they still smell like coffee. Does anyone think > traces of the aromatic hydrocarbons in coffee could harm fish? > Washing doesn't get the coffee smell out (have tried in past). >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29681	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

Rain water is usually like distilled water in that it has no minerals, trace elements, etc., that fish and plants need. If you use rain water, you would have to then add something like Kent's RO Right (RO = reverse osmosis) or similar products that replace the missing "chemicals", aka nutrients and trace elements. Then your fish would have to be acclimated to the rain water filled tank where they are likely born and raised in water more similar to your tap water. Then when you do weekly PWC's, are you going to use rain water for that also or use your tap water? I think you would be better off using a simple dechlor product that treats chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals before adding it to your tank for the large PWC after fishless cycling. I think we discussed it in this group but chlorine/chloramine is not dangerous to fish once it's broken down. Chlorine outgases out of the water within 24 hours even without using a dechlor. With a dechlor, it first makes the chlorine non-toxic and then it outgases. Chloramine treated with a dechlor instantly breaks down into chlorine and ammonia and the chlorine is then broken down as above. The ammonia is used by your nitrifying bacteria and plants. You would be leaving the bottom 10% of the tank (covering the gravel) filled with water from your fishless cycle. Simply add your dechlor to that water and then start the refilling process. The dechlor that you already added will instantly dechlor the water that you start adding. If you have a UGF filter and you want to err on the side of caution, you could dechlor the water first before pouring it onto the slightly covered water. If you don't have a UGF, then the majority of the N-bacteria will be in the filter media of your filter(s) so you wouldn't have to worry about the gravel as much. Besides, it takes several minutes or more of constant contact with tap water for the low levels of chlorine/chloramine in it to kill the bacteria. That's why we still have to use soap, bleach, etc., when doing dishes, laundry, etc. If the water had enough chlorine in it to kill bacteria instantly, then we could use it plain when washing our hands, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] catching rain water I've been cycling a 55 gal tank. Needs it's 90% water change now. That's approx 50 gallons of water. I put plants in it before I started reading about fishless cycling. I knew those bulb types need weeks to grow and I thought I'd just do that while waiting for it to be ready for fish. I'm thinking that never-clorinated water might cut down on the eventual chemical load in a tank versus clorinated water with declor chemicals. Less is more. Handily our weather forecaster predicted 5" of rain this Saturday. I have an old 10 gal tank that I put out in the back yard to catch it. I started the cycle with tap water left out to naturally declor, plus I used 10 gals from this tank which I had accidentally left out in a big storm after washing it out with the hose. But 10 gals that's still not near enough for my refill. I'm afraid if I put in the clorinated tap water I'll kill the good bacteria I've been trying to grow all this time. So want to catch more of the rainwater. I have a bunch of those newfangled plastic coffee cans.. but they still smell like coffee. Does anyone think traces of the aromatic hydrocarbons in coffee could harm fish? Washing doesn't get the coffee smell out (have tried in past). _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080904-0, 09/04/2008 Tested on: 9/4/2008 3:03:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29682	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > Why not use your down spout and a really big bucket? > I don't have a 50 gallon bucket, but I do happen to have a trash can that's never been used -- I think I will rinse it with the hose first though and pray that the store did not spray the department with pesticides. Thanks Chris!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29683	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

They also make “rain catchers” essentially a barrel to collect rainwater. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: catching rain water --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > Why not use your down spout and a really big bucket? > I don't have a 50 gallon bucket, but I do happen to have a trash can that's never been used -- I think I will rinse it with the hose first though and pray that the store did not spray the department with pesticides. Thanks Chris! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29684	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature

I've read about a method of bleaching and cleaning driftwood for fishtanks that involves using 1 cup of bleach for 5 gallons of water to sanitize and kill any micro organizims on it and living in it. You mix the bleach and water in a large tub and submerse the wood in it for a week turning it several times a day and then a week later rinse the tub and wood and fill it with clean water and rinseit several times a day letting it soak in between rinses for another week. I've never tried this because we recently had a 500 year flood in our area and all the parks were contaminated by flood water and (yikes!) sewer water so I'm not sure even this would work to get them clean. I don't know that this would hurt your fish though because it would probably be the equivalant of putting 1/4 c. bleach to a gallon of water which is what they use to sanatize baby toys though I'd rinse it for an extra week just to be certain. If anyone has the gumption to try this and it works, let me know. Bleached driftwood is a beautiful addition to a tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29685	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?

We had 4 tiger barbs in with 3 bettas (1 m and 2 f) with no problems. The barbs were there first to establish their territory and then we put the bettas in after they outgrew their homes (yes more than one Lenny.) It may be that it's because they're in a 60 gallon tank with other semi agressive species that are larger and more agressive than them that the barbs don't bother the bettas and there are hiding places for all the fish but we've never really had a problem with either of them. We did lose a barb to an angel that got a little rambunctious that had to be moved.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29686	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

5 inches of rain sounds like it might be one of our tropical storms, and a possible exception to the rule. Usually I wouldn't use rainwater because it contains alot of pollution and is often very acidic into the bargain. Big forests are being seriously damaged by acid rain. Rain usually contains everything that was in the air when it started raining. Also particulate matter from cars and other polluters. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 3:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] catching rain water Rain water is usually like distilled water in that it has no minerals, trace elements, etc., that fish and plants need. If you use rain water, you would have to then add something like Kent's RO Right (RO = reverse osmosis) or similar products that replace the missing "chemicals", aka nutrients and trace elements.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29687	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature

It's a heck of a lot easier to boil it once than to do all that soaking, bleaching and rinsing, over and over and over. The difference between using bleach to clean clothes or toys or whatever, for human use, is that the item is being allowed to dry out so the bleach evaporates but we also do not have to ingest it or breathe it. If you were to soak the driftwood long enough and then wanted to let it dry out, it could be weeks. The "wet" wood on the inside might still contain bleach that did not evaporate since it did not dry out and that bleach would leach into your tank over time, killing your good nitrifying bacteria and burning the gills, skin and organs of the fish... probably killing them. Even a very small amount... a few drops... of bleach in a tank would be fatal quite quickly. Bleach can be more easily used on hard, solid, smooth items like glass, etc. as those can be more easily rinsed off and you should still rinse several times after bleaching them but wood, gravel, etc., that is somewhat porous should not be treated with bleach or any other toxic chemical as it might take a very, very long time and lots and lots of rinsing to get the chemical out of the porous item. Further, when we come into contact with bleach, we might smell it but we don't have to breath it constantly like what might happen with any bleach remnants leaching into the water of a fish tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K'lyn Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature I've read about a method of bleaching and cleaning driftwood for fishtanks that involves using 1 cup of bleach for 5 gallons of water to sanitize and kill any micro organizims on it and living in it. You mix the bleach and water in a large tub and submerse the wood in it for a week turning it several times a day and then a week later rinse the tub and wood and fill it with clean water and rinseit several times a day letting it soak in between rinses for another week. I've never tried this because we recently had a 500 year flood in our area and all the parks were contaminated by flood water and (yikes!) sewer water so I'm not sure even this would work to get them clean. I don't know that this would hurt your fish though because it would probably be the equivalant of putting 1/4 c. bleach to a gallon of water which is what they use to sanatize baby toys though I'd rinse it for an extra week just to be certain. If anyone has the gumption to try this and it works, let me know. Bleached driftwood is a beautiful addition to a tank. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080904-1, 09/04/2008 Tested on: 9/4/2008 7:07:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29688	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature

As someone said, it depends on the type of fish you want to keep and your current pH from the tap. Because Limestone and coral sand IS often desirable for African cichlids where you want the pH to be over 8. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature Oh, ok, thanks Lenny, I had read that it would help buffer the ph, but I am glad I asked before making a mistake. Thank you, I'm still learning. My tank is freshwater. Sincerely, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 18:41:03 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature I know they sell limestone at garden supply outlets in broken up pieces for garden beds, driveways, etc. but why do you want to use it for your substrate? It would constantly leach into your tank's water making it very hard... possibly too hard... depending on the kinds of fish you are planning. It's OK for some fish but not all fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 6:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature On this note where can I find limestone as gravel? Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@ <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> worldnet.att.net <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:26:37 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature How do you clean gravel and rocks that you just pick up anywhere......I like adding rocks from all over. And I usually boil them.. Is this a good or is there a better way.  Margie http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Chris Date: 9/3/2008 1:12:26 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] harvesting gravel and drift wood from nature there is a stream bed not too far from here that has alot of usuable gravel I can put in my tank. I would also like to use drift wood for the catfish I plan on putting in, plus some slate. Slate is plentyful in NE Ohio and so I gravel because of the glaciers. What would be a safe method of sanitizing wood and gravel from nature? Thanks In Advance Chris _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 6:41:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29689	From: mike	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: u tube syphon air bubble problem

Hey guys! I thought I had it until I see that an air bubble develops in u tube syphon tube and gets bigger until failure, within 12 hours. Why doesn't everyone have the problem of tiny bubbles accumulating? Maybe 2 baffles acting like a bubble shield would work in front of overflow box? I put my u tube on youtube LOL to get a visual, thanks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29690	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

That's what I do, it's filter media! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank If you have to use it, it's probably better to put crushed coral or limestone in a filter media bag and either hide it behind a decoration or plant or put it in a filter reservoir if you need it leaching even faster into the water. Once you put it loose in the substrate, it's much too hard to regulate. At least with it in a media bag, if it starts changing things too fast, you can remove it as needed or lessen the amount or add a second bag if it's not working as needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:19 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank Use of coral or coral sand is generally frowned upon in a freshwater tank. The presence of the coral will increase the hardness of the water and may also affect the pH by raising it. If you are trying to raise the hardness of your water, you can try the coral, but keep an eye on your water parameters so that they do not get out of line, though the hardcore aesthetes would frown upon that as the coral is not a natural freshwater element in the wild, and its presence in a tank would be a travesty. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank That is a great idea!!! Also, my dad has some old coral in a box from this tank as well. It used to be saltwater before I was around (lol) Is it possible to use it in a freshwater tank? It's been dry as long as I am old so I'm pretty sure any germs and stuff would be dead lol I know I'd have to soak it forever to get most of the salt off, but I think my Red Tail Shark would love having a piece as his own. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > I picked up an old steel framed tank on freecycle awhile back.never got > around to replacing the glass that was broken on it. I kept it because they > just look cool :-D This has a slate bottom. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > Joe, > > I bet you hear back from a lot of people that are still using them "old" > stainless steel framed tanks with the slate bottoms. Personally, I don't > have any but I know they must still be in use in great numbers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of joe t > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:26 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > Hi Angela: > > You said "old" tank, but that's not saying what kind of tank and how old. > I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I still recommend trying out the > tank outside if you can. If you think putting it outside is a lot of work, > wait till it start leaking, maybe, and you have to clean all that up. > > Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel tanks of yesteryear, > don't even try it. I can almost guarantee it is going to leak. > > joe t _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 11:40:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29691	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Cleaning?

Yes regarding snails, I read more posts (here and other forums) about how to get RID of them rather than voluntarily adding them. I don’t have any MTS but I do have a huge problem with pond and ramshorn snails too many and they eat my plants. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hans Brost Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gravel Cleaning? --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Hans, > > Gravel cleaning is important to good upkeep of your aquarium. It is true that you will find bacteria living on the gravel, but cleaning 1/4 to 1/3 of the gravel per water change will not affect the capability of the tank to process ammonia down to nitrate. Also a good gravel cleaning will remove the detritus that finds its way into the gravel to eventually be processed by anaerobic bacteria and eventually lead to the escape of hydrogen sulfide gas and other noxious chemicals that can be harmful to your fish. > > \\Steve// > Hmmmm...Well, maybe. All I can say is there's parts of my tank where I've NEVER cleaned the gravel....I mean there's plants there....lol. However some of my fish have done a dandy job in cleaning it in other places......dug right down the the glass bottom...lolol..... I also stocked Malaysian Liver bearer snails, and they do a good job aerating it....got too many now though...gotta scrape them off the glass and put them in the satellite pond.... I still believe in the natural way.....z [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29692	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

What about acid rain and other environmental concerns? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: catching rain water Why not use your down spout and a really big bucket? --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Diana Brooks" <diana_brooks@...> wrote: > > I've been cycling a 55 gal tank. Needs it's 90% water change now. > That's approx 50 gallons of water. I put plants in it before I > started reading about fishless cycling. I knew those bulb types need > weeks to grow and I thought I'd just do that while waiting for it to > be ready for fish. > > I'm thinking that never-clorinated water might cut down on the > eventual chemical load in a tank versus clorinated water with declor > chemicals. Less is more. > > Handily our weather forecaster predicted 5" of rain this Saturday. I > have an old 10 gal tank that I put out in the back yard to catch it. > I started the cycle with tap water left out to naturally declor, > plus I used 10 gals from this tank which I had accidentally left out > in a big storm after washing it out with the hose. But 10 gals > that's still not near enough for my refill. > > I'm afraid if I put in the clorinated tap water I'll kill the good > bacteria I've been trying to grow all this time. So want to catch > more of the rainwater. I have a bunch of those newfangled plastic > coffee cans.. but they still smell like coffee. Does anyone think > traces of the aromatic hydrocarbons in coffee could harm fish? > Washing doesn't get the coffee smell out (have tried in past). > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29693	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Filter cleanings

Hey guys: I apologize for the cross post, but I wanted to hit both lists at the same time. I have a 1.5 gal tank with a betta in it and I've noticed that the hose and the filter assembly is getting some "gunk" (yes, lovely technical term I am sure) on it. I'm wondering what can I clean it with, or just take a wash cloth and clean it off that way? Thanks Rob -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29694	From: Paula Brown	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Request from a Digester

I am about a month behind on my digests so please excuse this if it has already been addressed. In trying to catch up on my digests, I have noticed a few times that texastears has replied to a post but he/she evidently receives this list via the digest form like I do. So when he/she has hit Reply, the entire digest that he/she is responding to is again included - thus meaning that those of us on digest have to scroll through an entire digest that we have already read. Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29695	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What about acid rain and other environmental concerns? > It's my understanding that the clean air act cleaned up our rain somewhat... and aren't wild fish living in rain water? Isn't the chlorinated water that comes out our taps originally rain water, that went into a river then to a treatment plant and got filtered and chlorinated? (at least in this part of the US ... I toured the plant during a teacher workshop.) I don't recall them doing anything to the pH before sending it to my tap... so in that way the tap water would be pretty close to my rain. The biggest difference would be the addition of chlorine then dechlorinating chemicals. I still think starting out without those two ingredients would be more natural.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29696	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

Well, it's all a clear colorless odorless liquid composed of two atoms of hydrogen and one of oxygen, Donna, but it matters what is mixed in with it. The problem with rainwater is that our atmosphere is very polluted, often with stuff that blows in from a long distance away, just as rain clouds do, and the rain tends to become polluted with whatever is in the air as it condenses and then falls. It is often very acidic on account of some of the chemicals it picks up in the air - I think sulfur compounds, for starters. It isn't even clean, because the air is often full of dust and dirt, and spores of whatever. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Brooks" <diana_brooks@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:28 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: catching rain water --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What about acid rain and other environmental concerns? > It's my understanding that the clean air act cleaned up our rain somewhat... and aren't wild fish living in rain water? Isn't the chlorinated water that comes out our taps originally rain water, that went into a river then to a treatment plant and got filtered and chlorinated? (at least in this part of the US ... I toured the plant during a teacher workshop.) I don't recall them doing anything to the pH before sending it to my tap... so in that way the tap water would be pretty close to my rain. The biggest difference would be the addition of chlorine then dechlorinating chemicals. I still think starting out without those two ingredients would be more natural.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29697	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

Our drinking water is treated and the water that fish swim in is mostly filtered through natural means(filtered in wetlands, through the soil and other compounds in the ground, etc ). If you check your municipality’s water site, they generally have information about what is added to the water and what processes the water goes through before it reaches your tap. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: catching rain water --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What about acid rain and other environmental concerns? > It's my understanding that the clean air act cleaned up our rain somewhat... and aren't wild fish living in rain water? Isn't the chlorinated water that comes out our taps originally rain water, that went into a river then to a treatment plant and got filtered and chlorinated? (at least in this part of the US ... I toured the plant during a teacher workshop.) I don't recall them doing anything to the pH before sending it to my tap... so in that way the tap water would be pretty close to my rain. The biggest difference would be the addition of chlorine then dechlorinating chemicals. I still think starting out without those two ingredients would be more natural. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29698	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2008
Subject: Re: Filter cleanings

What kind/brand of filter system do you have? What color is the "gunk"? Certainly, using a plain wash cloth with water will be a safe thing to do but if it's a whitish color, it could be hard water buildup and then using plain white vinegar would break down the buildup better. It would probably be best to remove the filter system from the tank to do any cleaning/maintenance. I have a blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" and I also have "Filter Profiles" on two common types of filter systems to show how I clean them so you could check out the one on the Penguin Bio-Wheel which would give you some more cleaning ideas. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:11 PM To: Betta_Crazy@yahoogroups.com; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter cleanings Hey guys: I apologize for the cross post, but I wanted to hit both lists at the same time. I have a 1.5 gal tank with a betta in it and I've noticed that the hose and the filter assembly is getting some "gunk" (yes, lovely technical term I am sure) on it. I'm wondering what can I clean it with, or just take a wash cloth and clean it off that way? Thanks Rob _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080904-1, 09/04/2008 Tested on: 9/5/2008 1:22:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29699	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

Donna asked: It's my understanding that the clean air act cleaned up our rain somewhat... and aren't wild fish living in rain water? Lenny's unfortunately long reply.. lol: This is kind of like the question of which came first... the chicken or the egg? Or in this case, the water covered earth or the rain? I'll give my best answer a little further down. I can almost promise you that your local water utility adds buffering agents (usually calcium carbonate) to the water to raise the pH above 7.0, unless the supply that they use is already buffered up that high already, like natural water supplies that flow through underground limestone beds, etc. Otherwise, if the pH was below 7.0, it would be acidic on the pH charts and would deteriorate the water pipes over the course of time. Further, your local water utility might filter large impurities out of the water supply and do other types of biological filtration but they DO NOT filter the water with reverse osmosis or micron-filtration or advanced-chemical filtration that would remove all of the minerals and trace elements from the water supply. Now, if your city and water utility system have been completely rebuilt in the past 20 years or so, then your entire water supply system might be PVC or other poly-type piping which is not as susceptible to acidic water deterioration. Most cities and utility water supply systems do not enjoy this rather new status. As far as the water that "naturally" covers the earth, remember that the earth is over 75% covered in water and the water is flowing over and in direct contact with the earth so minerals and trace elements from the earth are "naturally" leaching into ALL of the water covering the earth on a continual basis. Some of these waterways also have other ecological factors that might soften the water like black-water rivers and lakes or waterways with a lot of rotting leaves, etc., which would have bacterial action that utilizes much of the trace elements and minerals and lowers the pH to a very low level in those waterways. Now, back to my initial paragraph... which came first, the water covered earth or the rain? Rain is merely a by-product of weather patterns, the earth's natural heating, the heat from the sun, etc., where water from the earth evaporates up into the sky, condenses in the colder atmospheric temps and then "rains" back down. When it evaporates up into the sky, it is mostly distilled water with no minerals or trace elements in it. Yes, it does pick up some atmospheric trace elements, airborne dust and dirt, etc., as it comes back down and then flows across the earth again into a waterway and/or underground aquifer where it is then returned to the natural state of having minerals and trace elements again. This is what fish live in, in the wild... not pure rain water... although there are certainly some wild fish that have very short lifespans where they mate during the rainy seasons in their geographical areas and then mostly die off after the rainy seasons. These fish are quite often the kind that are readily available in the fish keeping hobby as they are readily caught by the native people in those areas and sold into the hobby instead of perishing at the end of the rainy season. But even those temporary rain-induced waterways are still in direct contact with the earth so they still get some leaching and erosion of the earth's minerals and trace elements into their water. I'm not sure anything could live in pure rain water for very long without the addition of minerals and trace elements. In closing, fill up a gallon bucket with rain water (directly from the sky, not rain water that flows down a gutter pipe... which I would not do unless the roofing material and gutter pipe was known to be new and clean and safe as the chemicals used to make roofing materials might be leaching into the rain water off of a traditional roof) and then fill a second gallon bucket with your tap water and do a full set of water parameter baseline tests on it... every test that you have like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH & KH... and any others you may have, wait 24 hours and test again, then 24 more hours and test again. There will likely be a HUGE difference between the rain water and your tap water. Now, if you have fish that prefer very soft and acidic waters, then using rain water, possibly mixed with tap, is certainly an option or if pure rain water, you could then add the life-sustaining elements back into the water with Kent's RO Right or similar products. Maybe a discus keeper in the group will discuss this further as I know most discus' are kept in very low pH water. I've never had them or considered them before so I've never done the research of the details of their water requirements. In conclusion to the question of which came first... the earth covered in water or the rain? Only God knows! Ask Him! ;-) But, using my "brain on loan from God", I would speculate that the earth covered in water came first, then the rain but I'll digress to a Higher Authority. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: catching rain water --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What about acid rain and other environmental concerns? > It's my understanding that the clean air act cleaned up our rain somewhat... and aren't wild fish living in rain water? Isn't the chlorinated water that comes out our taps originally rain water, that went into a river then to a treatment plant and got filtered and chlorinated? (at least in this part of the US ... I toured the plant during a teacher workshop.) I don't recall them doing anything to the pH before sending it to my tap... so in that way the tap water would be pretty close to my rain. The biggest difference would be the addition of chlorine then dechlorinating chemicals. I still think starting out without those two ingredients would be more natural. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080904-1, 09/04/2008 Tested on: 9/5/2008 2:16:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

Oops.. I just realized that Diana asked the question about fish living in rain water, not Donna... but my answer remains the same. Sorry for the mix-up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: catching rain water --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What about acid rain and other environmental concerns? > It's my understanding that the clean air act cleaned up our rain somewhat... and aren't wild fish living in rain water? Isn't the chlorinated water that comes out our taps originally rain water, that went into a river then to a treatment plant and got filtered and chlorinated? (at least in this part of the US ... I toured the plant during a teacher workshop.) I don't recall them doing anything to the pH before sending it to my tap... so in that way the tap water would be pretty close to my rain. The biggest difference would be the addition of chlorine then dechlorinating chemicals. I still think starting out without those two ingredients would be more natural. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080904-1, 09/04/2008 Tested on: 9/5/2008 2:18:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: u tube syphon air bubble problem

I see small bubbles forming on the underside of the overflow box intake, inside of the tank. Do you have an airstone in the tank near the overflow box? If yes, you should move it away so that you are not seeing bubbles forming near your overflow intake. These small bubbles look like they would eventually roll up the side of your overflow intake and could easily become suspended in the water and get sucked into your u-tube. This can also happen with HOB's or any other filter system where the intake is sucking in bubbles from an airstone and the lift tube of the HOB will eventually get enough air in it to form cavitations (gurgling sound) or complete loss of suction. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] u tube syphon air bubble problem Hey guys! I thought I had it until I see that an air bubble develops in u tube syphon tube and gets bigger until failure, within 12 hours. Why doesn't everyone have the problem of tiny bubbles accumulating? Maybe 2 baffles acting like a bubble shield would work in front of overflow box? I put my u tube on youtube LOL to get a visual, thanks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080904-1, 09/04/2008 Tested on: 9/5/2008 3:17:03 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29702	From: rsteph49	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

I was looking at one of my local fish stores, at some of the neat fish that I can niether afford, nor house in my tank right now... getting some ideas of what I want when I upgrade to a bigger tank. One thing I saw that got me to thinking was a nurse shark, probably about 1.5-2 feet long. That got me to wondering about having a shark tank; has anyone on this forum ever tried to have a tank with a shark? Some questions I had: 1) What size tank do you need to house a nurse shark, and give it enough room to swim around happily? 2) Do sharks, like some other fish grow to the size of their sorroundings? Meaning, if I have a 200 gallon tank (don't have yet but would love to), would it grow to a size to fit that tank, or will it grow to it's standard size regardless of the size tank it's in? 3) What do you need to feed a nurse shark? Can I use the frozen Brine/Krill shrimp combo I use for my current fish, or would I need live fish for feeding? 4) What are some fish and invertabrates that I could have in the tank with it without them becoming food almost immediately? 5) How hard is the upkeep, caretaking for a shark compared to other fish (clowns, puffers, angelfish, etc.)? Any other thoughts, warnings, concerns that anyone might have I'd love to get as much info as I can - useful websites seem to be scarce on this subject. I'm not planning to purchase one right now, but I am looking to get a bigger tank than the 25 gallon starter tank I've got right now (and had for a while to get my feet wet in saltwater tanks); so I'm looking at what kind of primary fish I want for my tank to determine what size tank I need, and what kind of other fish/invertebrates/etc. I can have in the tank as well... Thanks in advance for any thoughts or information that anyone can offer.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29703	From: Chris	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Request from a Digester

what are you talking about? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Brown" <paulabrown4480@...> wrote: > > I am about a month behind on my digests so please excuse this if it has already been addressed. In trying to catch up on my digests, I have noticed a few times that texastears has replied to a post but he/she evidently receives this list via the digest form like I do. So when he/she has hit Reply, the entire digest that he/she is responding to is again included - thus meaning that those of us on digest have to scroll through an entire digest that we have already read. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

Your best bet for a nurse shark tank would be to check and see if your home is built on a concrete slab, then to level your home, remove all of the debris, seal the concrete slab, then use the slab of the house as the tank stand. Probably get some 6" thick plexiglass for the walls along the edges of the slab and some steel I-beams for a frame and you'll be good to go for the multi-thousand gallon tank that would be needed. Yes, I'm just kidding... but seriously, you would need a multi-thousand gallon tank and a massive filtration system to handle the waste of even a single nurse shark. A quick Google would have brought you lots of info. Here's two of the websites that showed up in the top of my search for "nurse shark"... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_shark (says they grow to 14' long) and http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/fish/nurse-shark.html (also says 14' long). Your question in "2)" below, is a common misunderstanding by many fish hobbyists. While many species of the entire animal kingdom will only grow to a size suitable for their surroundings, it is NOT the right thing to do when done intentionally by someone keeping a pet. It's called stunting and will cause a fish stress which then leads to multiple health issues and ultimately an early death. That said, sharks and other HUGE fish should be left in the wild or at worst, in the giant public aquariums that exist in many areas of the world that have massive filtration and cooling systems and constant PWC's (partial water changes). Anything smaller than those giant public aquarium is pushing things. Even those public aquariums are grossly overstocked as evidenced by the fact that ALL of the fish in the Aquarium Of America, in New Orleans, died after they lost power for weeks during Hurricane Katrina in 2005. That reminds me that I haven't heard how the AOA did after Gustav. I'm guessing they have emergency generators now and since the power wasn't out for very long around here, hopefully they all made it this time on generator power. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rsteph49 Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question Regard Fish and Tank Size I was looking at one of my local fish stores, at some of the neat fish that I can niether afford, nor house in my tank right now... getting some ideas of what I want when I upgrade to a bigger tank. One thing I saw that got me to thinking was a nurse shark, probably about 1.5-2 feet long. That got me to wondering about having a shark tank; has anyone on this forum ever tried to have a tank with a shark? Some questions I had: 1) What size tank do you need to house a nurse shark, and give it enough room to swim around happily? 2) Do sharks, like some other fish grow to the size of their sorroundings? Meaning, if I have a 200 gallon tank (don't have yet but would love to), would it grow to a size to fit that tank, or will it grow to it's standard size regardless of the size tank it's in? 3) What do you need to feed a nurse shark? Can I use the frozen Brine/Krill shrimp combo I use for my current fish, or would I need live fish for feeding? 4) What are some fish and invertabrates that I could have in the tank with it without them becoming food almost immediately? 5) How hard is the upkeep, caretaking for a shark compared to other fish (clowns, puffers, angelfish, etc.)? Any other thoughts, warnings, concerns that anyone might have I'd love to get as much info as I can - useful websites seem to be scarce on this subject. I'm not planning to purchase one right now, but I am looking to get a bigger tank than the 25 gallon starter tank I've got right now (and had for a while to get my feet wet in saltwater tanks); so I'm looking at what kind of primary fish I want for my tank to determine what size tank I need, and what kind of other fish/invertebrates/etc. I can have in the tank as well... Thanks in advance for any thoughts or information that anyone can offer. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 Tested on: 9/5/2008 11:42:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29705	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Request from a Digester

Chris, YahooGroups offers various ways to read the messages posted. You can go to the website and do it and reply from the website but you can also choose to have the messages emailed to you and reply via email... which is how I do it for most of my groups. You can also choose to get a "Daily Digest" which is a single email containing all of the messages of the day. If a group has more than 25 messages a day, then people get multiple digests. I do get these for a couple of my other groups. They can be quite long and then if someone hits the reply button and types out their reply, the LONG digest is included as part of the reply. The digests are usually over 200KB so doing this also clogs up the internet resources for those millions of people who are still on slower speed internet or dial-up... especially if multiple people do not edit down the size of the digest to only include the message they were replying to. I hope that explained it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Request from a Digester what are you talking about? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Paula Brown" <paulabrown4480@...> wrote: > > I am about a month behind on my digests so please excuse this if it has already been addressed. In trying to catch up on my digests, I have noticed a few times that texastears has replied to a post but he/she evidently receives this list via the digest form like I do. So when he/she has hit Reply, the entire digest that he/she is responding to is again included - thus meaning that those of us on digest have to scroll through an entire digest that we have already read. > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 Tested on: 9/5/2008 11:48:15 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29706	From: Blue fish	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Extensive site includes news of various topics like Marine animals,Marine biology, sharks,Whales,sea mammals,endangered species, birds, turtles, penguine, seal,planktons,Fish,coral reef,coastal... ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C404C5C5C4742425A445146445A515F4C ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C404C5C5C4742425A445146445A515F4C Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C404C5C5C4742425A445146445A515F48 Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29707	From: Helen	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Help: my fish stop growing.

my comet was getting a bit of a belly in the spring, but it hasn't stopped, at first I thought it was carrying eggs, but it's HUGE now, it's appetite is fine, and swims fine but starts to float when it stops, is there anyone out there that might know what it is,,, including pictures.. under Helyun

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29708	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Latest news about marine biology

I LOVE that this news is posted, I LOVE marine bio. i am taking classes in marine bio. On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Blue fish <princely7@...> wrote: > Marine animal news > Extensive site includes news of various topics like Marine animals,Marine > biology, sharks,Whales,sea mammals,endangered species, birds, turtles, > penguine, seal,planktons,Fish,coral reef,coastal... > ----------------------------------------------- > > View this email online: > http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C404C5C5C4742425A445146445A515F4C > > ----------------------------------------------- > > Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> by: > princely7@... <princely7%40yahoo.com> > kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India > > View Online: > http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C404C5C5C4742425A445146445A515F4C > Unsubscribe: > http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C404C5C5C4742425A445146445A515F48 > Report Abuse: abuse@... <abuse%40zookoda.com> > Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29709	From: rsteph49	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

Thanks for the comments. I actually found some of that information while continuing to look up stuff after posting this. I actually didn't get the same results from google that you did apparently, I had to use yahoo to find the Wikipedia entry on Nurse Sharks (when I tried just going to Wikipedia it kept taking me to the general shark entry). So looks like a nurse shark is out of the running, still neet to see them. Maybe one day when I win the lottery and can afford a "Playboy Mansion" size swimming pool to turn into a giant saltwater tank. lol On a side note, any thoughts on Porcupine Puffers or Stonefish? I saw a Stone fish at the same pet store, they're not really pretty - but they are neat in their own right. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Your best bet for a nurse shark tank would be to check and see if your home > is built on a concrete slab, then to level your home, remove all of the > debris, seal the concrete slab, then use the slab of the house as the tank > stand. Probably get some 6" thick plexiglass for the walls along the edges > of the slab and some steel I-beams for a frame and you'll be good to go for > the multi-thousand gallon tank that would be needed. > > Yes, I'm just kidding... but seriously, you would need a multi- thousand > gallon tank and a massive filtration system to handle the waste of even a > single nurse shark. > > A quick Google would have brought you lots of info. Here's two of the > websites that showed up in the top of my search for "nurse shark"... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_shark (says they grow to 14' long) and > http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/fish/nurse-shark.html (also > says 14' long). > > Your question in "2)" below, is a common misunderstanding by many fish > hobbyists. While many species of the entire animal kingdom will only grow > to a size suitable for their surroundings, it is NOT the right thing to do > when done intentionally by someone keeping a pet. It's called stunting and > will cause a fish stress which then leads to multiple health issues and > ultimately an early death. > > That said, sharks and other HUGE fish should be left in the wild or at > worst, in the giant public aquariums that exist in many areas of the world > that have massive filtration and cooling systems and constant PWC's (partial > water changes). Anything smaller than those giant public aquarium is > pushing things. Even those public aquariums are grossly overstocked as > evidenced by the fact that ALL of the fish in the Aquarium Of America, in > New Orleans, died after they lost power for weeks during Hurricane Katrina > in 2005. That reminds me that I haven't heard how the AOA did after Gustav. > I'm guessing they have emergency generators now and since the power wasn't > out for very long around here, hopefully they all made it this time on > generator power. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of rsteph49 > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:36 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question Regard Fish and Tank Size > > I was looking at one of my local fish stores, at some of the neat fish that > I can niether afford, nor house in my tank right now... > getting some ideas of what I want when I upgrade to a bigger tank. > One thing I saw that got me to thinking was a nurse shark, probably about > 1.5-2 feet long. That got me to wondering about having a shark tank; has > anyone on this forum ever tried to have a tank with a shark? > > Some questions I had: > > 1) What size tank do you need to house a nurse shark, and give it enough > room to swim around happily? > > 2) Do sharks, like some other fish grow to the size of their sorroundings? > Meaning, if I have a 200 gallon tank (don't have yet but would love to), > would it grow to a size to fit that tank, or will it grow to it's standard > size regardless of the size tank it's in? > > 3) What do you need to feed a nurse shark? Can I use the frozen Brine/Krill > shrimp combo I use for my current fish, or would I need live fish for > feeding? > > 4) What are some fish and invertabrates that I could have in the tank with > it without them becoming food almost immediately? > > 5) How hard is the upkeep, caretaking for a shark compared to other fish > (clowns, puffers, angelfish, etc.)? > > Any other thoughts, warnings, concerns that anyone might have I'd love to > get as much info as I can - useful websites seem to be scarce on this > subject. I'm not planning to purchase one right now, but I am looking to get > a bigger tank than the 25 gallon starter tank I've got right now (and had > for a while to get my feet wet in saltwater tanks); so I'm looking at what > kind of primary fish I want for my tank to determine what size tank I need, > and what kind of other fish/invertebrates/etc. I can have in the tank as > well... > > Thanks in advance for any thoughts or information that anyone can offer. > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 > Tested on: 9/5/2008 11:42:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29710	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

sharks did u say sharks.. like salt water.. ask away its my favorite subject... Nurse sharks grow to about 8 feet.. there are smalleer species.. On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 12:51 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@...> wrote: > Thanks for the comments. I actually found some of that information > while continuing to look up stuff after posting this. I actually > didn't get the same results from google that you did apparently, I > had to use yahoo to find the Wikipedia entry on Nurse Sharks (when I > tried just going to Wikipedia it kept taking me to the general shark > entry). So looks like a nurse shark is out of the running, still neet > to see them. Maybe one day when I win the lottery and can afford > a "Playboy Mansion" size swimming pool to turn into a giant saltwater > tank. lol > > On a side note, any thoughts on Porcupine Puffers or Stonefish? I saw > a Stone fish at the same pet store, they're not really pretty - but > they are neat in their own right. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny > V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Your best bet for a nurse shark tank would be to check and see if > your home > > is built on a concrete slab, then to level your home, remove all of > the > > debris, seal the concrete slab, then use the slab of the house as > the tank > > stand. Probably get some 6" thick plexiglass for the walls along > the edges > > of the slab and some steel I-beams for a frame and you'll be good > to go for > > the multi-thousand gallon tank that would be needed. > > > > Yes, I'm just kidding... but seriously, you would need a multi- > thousand > > gallon tank and a massive filtration system to handle the waste of > even a > > single nurse shark. > > > > A quick Google would have brought you lots of info. Here's two of > the > > websites that showed up in the top of my search for "nurse shark"... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_shark (says they grow to 14' > long) and > > http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/fish/nurse-shark.html > (also > > says 14' long). > > > > Your question in "2)" below, is a common misunderstanding by many > fish > > hobbyists. While many species of the entire animal kingdom will > only grow > > to a size suitable for their surroundings, it is NOT the right > thing to do > > when done intentionally by someone keeping a pet. It's called > stunting and > > will cause a fish stress which then leads to multiple health issues > and > > ultimately an early death. > > > > That said, sharks and other HUGE fish should be left in the wild or > at > > worst, in the giant public aquariums that exist in many areas of > the world > > that have massive filtration and cooling systems and constant PWC's > (partial > > water changes). Anything smaller than those giant public aquarium > is > > pushing things. Even those public aquariums are grossly > overstocked as > > evidenced by the fact that ALL of the fish in the Aquarium Of > America, in > > New Orleans, died after they lost power for weeks during Hurricane > Katrina > > in 2005. That reminds me that I haven't heard how the AOA did > after Gustav. > > I'm guessing they have emergency generators now and since the power > wasn't > > out for very long around here, hopefully they all made it this time > on > > generator power. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of rsteph49 > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:36 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question Regard Fish and Tank Size > > > > I was looking at one of my local fish stores, at some of the neat > fish that > > I can niether afford, nor house in my tank right now... > > getting some ideas of what I want when I upgrade to a bigger tank. > > One thing I saw that got me to thinking was a nurse shark, probably > about > > 1.5-2 feet long. That got me to wondering about having a shark > tank; has > > anyone on this forum ever tried to have a tank with a shark? > > > > Some questions I had: > > > > 1) What size tank do you need to house a nurse shark, and give it > enough > > room to swim around happily? > > > > 2) Do sharks, like some other fish grow to the size of their > sorroundings? > > Meaning, if I have a 200 gallon tank (don't have yet but would love > to), > > would it grow to a size to fit that tank, or will it grow to it's > standard > > size regardless of the size tank it's in? > > > > 3) What do you need to feed a nurse shark? Can I use the frozen > Brine/Krill > > shrimp combo I use for my current fish, or would I need live fish > for > > feeding? > > > > 4) What are some fish and invertabrates that I could have in the > tank with > > it without them becoming food almost immediately? > > > > 5) How hard is the upkeep, caretaking for a shark compared to other > fish > > (clowns, puffers, angelfish, etc.)? > > > > Any other thoughts, warnings, concerns that anyone might have I'd > love to > > get as much info as I can - useful websites seem to be scarce on > this > > subject. I'm not planning to purchase one right now, but I am > looking to get > > a bigger tank than the 25 gallon starter tank I've got right now > (and had > > for a while to get my feet wet in saltwater tanks); so I'm looking > at what > > kind of primary fish I want for my tank to determine what size tank > I need, > > and what kind of other fish/invertebrates/etc. I can have in the > tank as > > well... > > > > Thanks in advance for any thoughts or information that anyone can > offer. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 > > Tested on: 9/5/2008 11:42:17 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29711	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Latest news about marine biology

I'm glad you like it. I keep getting a crick in my neck from trying to read the site since it leans so far to the left! ;-) And it's too chicken-littlish for me... "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Latest news about marine biology I LOVE that this news is posted, I LOVE marine bio. i am taking classes in marine bio. On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Blue fish <princely7@... <mailto:princely7%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > Marine animal news > Extensive site includes news of various topics like Marine > animals,Marine biology, sharks,Whales,sea mammals,endangered species, > birds, turtles, penguine, seal,planktons,Fish,coral reef,coastal... > ----------------------------------------------- _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 Tested on: 9/5/2008 12:28:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29712	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Latest news about marine biology

OMG Lenny your soo funny, glad ya'all made it through the hurricane fine, hopefully u guys won't get anymore this year.. On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > I'm glad you like it. I keep getting a crick in my neck from trying to > read > the site since it leans so far to the left! ;-) > > And it's too chicken-littlish for me... "The sky is falling, the sky is > falling!" LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of L. Gove > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Latest news about marine biology > > I LOVE that this news is posted, I LOVE marine bio. i am taking classes in > marine bio. > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Blue fish <princely7@...<princely7%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:princely7%40yahoo.com <princely7%2540yahoo.com>> > wrote: > > > Marine animal news > > Extensive site includes news of various topics like Marine > > animals,Marine biology, sharks,Whales,sea mammals,endangered species, > > birds, turtles, penguine, seal,planktons,Fish,coral reef,coastal... > > ----------------------------------------------- > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 > Tested on: 9/5/2008 12:28:56 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29713	From: rsteph49	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

What would be some of the smaller species? Anything that would live comfortable in say a 300 gallon (give or take) tank? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: > > sharks did u say sharks.. like salt water.. ask away its my favorite > subject... > Nurse sharks grow to about 8 feet.. > there are smalleer species.. > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 12:51 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@...> wrote: >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29714	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

Well, a nurse shark can grow to over 4 feet long. As far as I know, sharks grow for their entire lifespan. Nurse Sharks are also nocturnal and prefer to hide in the daytime. They are also well armed with teeth and can inflict serious wounds. Wikipedia says: "Their diet consists primarily of crustaceans, molluscs, tunicates, and other fish, particularly stingrays. Their diet consists of a large number of marine invertebrates - spiny lobsters, crabs, shrimp, sea urchins, octopuses, squid, and marine snails and bivalves. They are thought to take advantage of dormant fish which would otherwise be too fast for the sharks to catch; although their small mouths limit the size of prey items, the sharks have large throat cavities which are used as a sort of bellows valve. In this way nurse sharks are able to suck in their prey. Nurse sharks are also known to graze algae and coral." That could get expensive fast. As I recall, unlike many sharks, the nurse shark does not have to swim constantly to breathe, so that isn't an issue. All in all, IMHO this does not seem to be a good candidate for the average (or even above-average) home aquarist, unless you have a budget where cost is no obstacle and you decide to build yourself a personal Sea World. Two fins down, IMHO. :-(

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29715	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Help: my fish stop growing.

My tetra with the swim bladder issue has a big belly, and I don't think it's strictly fat. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen" <Helyun@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 10:49 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help: my fish stop growing. my comet was getting a bit of a belly in the spring, but it hasn't stopped, at first I thought it was carrying eggs, but it's HUGE now, it's appetite is fine, and swims fine but starts to float when it stops, is there anyone out there that might know what it is,,, including pictures.. under Helyun ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29716	From: Margie	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

I have fished for Black Tip Shark, but would never want want one in a tank. I'd leave that to the city aquarium.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Gregg Bender Date: 9/5/2008 2:08:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size Well, a nurse shark can grow to over 4 feet long. As far as I know, sharks grow for their entire lifespan. Nurse Sharks are also nocturnal and prefer to hide in the daytime. They are also well armed with teeth and can inflict serious wounds. Wikipedia says: "Their diet consists primarily of crustaceans, molluscs, tunicates, and other fish, particularly stingrays. Their diet consists of a large number of marine invertebrates - spiny lobsters, crabs, shrimp, sea urchins, octopuses, squid, and marine snails and bivalves. They are thought to take advantage of dormant fish which would otherwise be too fast for the sharks to catch; although their small mouths limit the size of prey items, the sharks have large throat cavities which are used as a sort of bellows valve. In this way nurse sharks are able to suck in their prey. Nurse sharks are also known to graze algae and coral." That could get expensive fast. As I recall, unlike many sharks, the nurse shark does not have to swim constantly to breathe, so that isn't an issue. All in all, IMHO this does not seem to be a good candidate for the average (or even above-average) home aquarist, unless you have a budget where cost is no obstacle and you decide to build yourself a personal Sea World. Two fins down, IMHO. :-( ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29717	From: Margie	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

PS..... My DH is a fisherman and he said Nurse Shark is on very low side of vicious . One of the tamer breeds of shark. I just can't imagine anyone trying to keep a salt water shark in a home tank  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Gregg Bender Date: 9/5/2008 2:08:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size Well, a nurse shark can grow to over 4 feet long. As far as I know, sharks grow for their entire lifespan. Nurse Sharks are also nocturnal and prefer to hide in the daytime. They are also well armed with teeth and can inflict serious wounds. Wikipedia says: "Their diet consists primarily of crustaceans, molluscs, tunicates, and other fish, particularly stingrays. Their diet consists of a large number of marine invertebrates - spiny lobsters, crabs, shrimp, sea urchins, octopuses, squid, and marine snails and bivalves. They are thought to take advantage of dormant fish which would otherwise be too fast for the sharks to catch; although their small mouths limit the size of prey items, the sharks have large throat cavities which are used as a sort of bellows valve. In this way nurse sharks are able to suck in their prey. Nurse sharks are also known to graze algae and coral." That could get expensive fast. As I recall, unlike many sharks, the nurse shark does not have to swim constantly to breathe, so that isn't an issue. All in all, IMHO this does not seem to be a good candidate for the average (or even above-average) home aquarist, unless you have a budget where cost is no obstacle and you decide to build yourself a personal Sea World. Two fins down, IMHO. :-( ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29718	From: mike	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: u tube syphon air bubble problem

nope, no bubble makers. Maybe the box is just too shallow and the bubbles are created by the waterfall into the box. I should make a deeper one and have the tube go down further than the bubbles do. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I see small bubbles forming on the underside of the overflow box intake, > inside of the tank. Do you have an airstone in the tank near the overflow > box? If yes, you should move it away so that you are not seeing bubbles > forming near your overflow intake. These small bubbles look like they would > eventually roll up the side of your overflow intake and could easily become > suspended in the water and get sucked into your u-tube. > > This can also happen with HOB's or any other filter system where the intake > is sucking in bubbles from an airstone and the lift tube of the HOB will > eventually get enough air in it to form cavitations (gurgling sound) or > complete loss of suction. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] u tube syphon air bubble problem > > Hey guys! I thought I had it until I see that an air bubble develops in u > tube syphon tube and gets bigger until failure, within 12 hours. Why doesn't > everyone have the problem of tiny bubbles accumulating? Maybe 2 baffles > acting like a bubble shield would work in front of overflow box? > > I put my u tube on youtube LOL to get a visual, thanks. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c> > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080904-1, 09/04/2008 > Tested on: 9/5/2008 3:17:03 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29719	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

There are some species of sharks that are suitable for tanks, like bamboo sharks. You still need a pretty big tank, but it won’t be the size of your house ;-) Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 12:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size sharks did u say sharks.. like salt water.. ask away its my favorite subject... Nurse sharks grow to about 8 feet.. there are smalleer species.. On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 12:51 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@hotmail. <mailto:rsteph49%40hotmail.com> com> wrote: > Thanks for the comments. I actually found some of that information > while continuing to look up stuff after posting this. I actually > didn't get the same results from google that you did apparently, I > had to use yahoo to find the Wikipedia entry on Nurse Sharks (when I > tried just going to Wikipedia it kept taking me to the general shark > entry). So looks like a nurse shark is out of the running, still neet > to see them. Maybe one day when I win the lottery and can afford > a "Playboy Mansion" size swimming pool to turn into a giant saltwater > tank. lol > > On a side note, any thoughts on Porcupine Puffers or Stonefish? I saw > a Stone fish at the same pet store, they're not really pretty - but > they are neat in their own right. > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny > V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Your best bet for a nurse shark tank would be to check and see if > your home > > is built on a concrete slab, then to level your home, remove all of > the > > debris, seal the concrete slab, then use the slab of the house as > the tank > > stand. Probably get some 6" thick plexiglass for the walls along > the edges > > of the slab and some steel I-beams for a frame and you'll be good > to go for > > the multi-thousand gallon tank that would be needed. > > > > Yes, I'm just kidding... but seriously, you would need a multi- > thousand > > gallon tank and a massive filtration system to handle the waste of > even a > > single nurse shark. > > > > A quick Google would have brought you lots of info. Here's two of > the > > websites that showed up in the top of my search for "nurse shark"... > > http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_shark> .org/wiki/Nurse_shark (says they grow to 14' > long) and > > http://animals. <http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/fish/nurse-shark.html> nationalgeographic.com/animals/fish/nurse-shark.html > (also > > says 14' long). > > > > Your question in "2)" below, is a common misunderstanding by many > fish > > hobbyists. While many species of the entire animal kingdom will > only grow > > to a size suitable for their surroundings, it is NOT the right > thing to do > > when done intentionally by someone keeping a pet. It's called > stunting and > > will cause a fish stress which then leads to multiple health issues > and > > ultimately an early death. > > > > That said, sharks and other HUGE fish should be left in the wild or > at > > worst, in the giant public aquariums that exist in many areas of > the world > > that have massive filtration and cooling systems and constant PWC's > (partial > > water changes). Anything smaller than those giant public aquarium > is > > pushing things. Even those public aquariums are grossly > overstocked as > > evidenced by the fact that ALL of the fish in the Aquarium Of > America, in > > New Orleans, died after they lost power for weeks during Hurricane > Katrina > > in 2005. That reminds me that I haven't heard how the AOA did > after Gustav. > > I'm guessing they have emergency generators now and since the power > wasn't > > out for very long around here, hopefully they all made it this time > on > > generator power. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> blogspot.com/> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of rsteph49 > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:36 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question Regard Fish and Tank Size > > > > I was looking at one of my local fish stores, at some of the neat > fish that > > I can niether afford, nor house in my tank right now... > > getting some ideas of what I want when I upgrade to a bigger tank. > > One thing I saw that got me to thinking was a nurse shark, probably > about > > 1.5-2 feet long. That got me to wondering about having a shark > tank; has > > anyone on this forum ever tried to have a tank with a shark? > > > > Some questions I had: > > > > 1) What size tank do you need to house a nurse shark, and give it > enough > > room to swim around happily? > > > > 2) Do sharks, like some other fish grow to the size of their > sorroundings? > > Meaning, if I have a 200 gallon tank (don't have yet but would love > to), > > would it grow to a size to fit that tank, or will it grow to it's > standard > > size regardless of the size tank it's in? > > > > 3) What do you need to feed a nurse shark? Can I use the frozen > Brine/Krill > > shrimp combo I use for my current fish, or would I need live fish > for > > feeding? > > > > 4) What are some fish and invertabrates that I could have in the > tank with > > it without them becoming food almost immediately? > > > > 5) How hard is the upkeep, caretaking for a shark compared to other > fish > > (clowns, puffers, angelfish, etc.)? > > > > Any other thoughts, warnings, concerns that anyone might have I'd > love to > > get as much info as I can - useful websites seem to be scarce on > this > > subject. I'm not planning to purchase one right now, but I am > looking to get > > a bigger tank than the 25 gallon starter tank I've got right now > (and had > > for a while to get my feet wet in saltwater tanks); so I'm looking > at what > > kind of primary fish I want for my tank to determine what size tank > I need, > > and what kind of other fish/invertebrates/etc. I can have in the > tank as > > well... > > > > Thanks in advance for any thoughts or information that anyone can > offer. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 > > Tested on: 9/5/2008 11:42:17 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@ <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com> live.com on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@ <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> gmail.com kwelyroos71@ <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com kwelyroos71@ <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> gmail.com www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29720	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?

It is more than one MALE betta in a tank that will cause problems. Keeping multiple females together is a relatively safe bet, since they are not nearly as aggressive as the males are. In a large enough tank you can keep multiple males as territorial fights could be nonexistent, and, at best, you may see some show, but no real fighting at territorial edges. If mixing with other fish, the conspecific aggression will be a higher priority than that of non-conspecific aggression in all cases. Getting the right mix is generally a serendipitous event and difficult to plan. Keep in mind that the balance, at any time, can swing another way, especially if fish are added and/or removed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K'lyn Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Am I asking for trouble? We had 4 tiger barbs in with 3 bettas (1 m and 2 f) with no problems. The barbs were there first to establish their territory and then we put the bettas in after they outgrew their homes (yes more than one Lenny.) It may be that it's because they're in a 60 gallon tank with other semi agressive species that are larger and more agressive than them that the barbs don't bother the bettas and there are hiding places for all the fish but we've never really had a problem with either of them. We did lose a barb to an angel that got a little rambunctious that had to be moved.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29721	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: u tube syphon air bubble problem

But it looks like the bubbles are on the underside of the Plexiglas so the water falling into the overflow box wouldn't create those. Do you have your returning water from this filter system or another one nearby the overflow box? I think if you can lessen the number of bubbles in the water near the overflow box intake, if there are any... and possibly make it deeper, as you suggested, those two things would certainly go a long way in stopping bubbles from getting up into your u-tube. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: u tube syphon air bubble problem nope, no bubble makers. Maybe the box is just too shallow and the bubbles are created by the waterfall into the box. I should make a deeper one and have the tube go down further than the bubbles do. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I see small bubbles forming on the underside of the overflow box intake, > inside of the tank. Do you have an airstone in the tank near the overflow > box? If yes, you should move it away so that you are not seeing bubbles > forming near your overflow intake. These small bubbles look like they would > eventually roll up the side of your overflow intake and could easily become > suspended in the water and get sucked into your u-tube. > > This can also happen with HOB's or any other filter system where the intake > is sucking in bubbles from an airstone and the lift tube of the HOB will > eventually get enough air in it to form cavitations (gurgling sound) or > complete loss of suction. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] u tube syphon air bubble problem > > Hey guys! I thought I had it until I see that an air bubble develops in u > tube syphon tube and gets bigger until failure, within 12 hours. Why doesn't > everyone have the problem of tiny bubbles accumulating? Maybe 2 baffles > acting like a bubble shield would work in front of overflow box? > > I put my u tube on youtube LOL to get a visual, thanks. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c> > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 Tested on: 9/5/2008 4:25:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29722	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

Funny you should ask, I was just visiting the shop of a friend in MA the other day, and he had a porcupine puffer in a 500 gallon tank with a few other, larger sized, marine fish that I am not familiar with. Keep in mind this was in a store setting, and such a fish housed with others may require a larger tank to really be happy in, but it was in this size tank for display and sale. He was about 10" long at this point, and I do believe they do get larger than that, but I have not checked the adult size of this fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rsteph49 Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 12:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size Thanks for the comments. I actually found some of that information while continuing to look up stuff after posting this. I actually didn't get the same results from google that you did apparently, I had to use yahoo to find the Wikipedia entry on Nurse Sharks (when I tried just going to Wikipedia it kept taking me to the general shark entry). So looks like a nurse shark is out of the running, still neet to see them. Maybe one day when I win the lottery and can afford a "Playboy Mansion" size swimming pool to turn into a giant saltwater tank. lol On a side note, any thoughts on Porcupine Puffers or Stonefish? I saw a Stone fish at the same pet store, they're not really pretty - but they are neat in their own right. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Your best bet for a nurse shark tank would be to check and see if your home > is built on a concrete slab, then to level your home, remove all of the > debris, seal the concrete slab, then use the slab of the house as the tank > stand. Probably get some 6" thick plexiglass for the walls along the edges > of the slab and some steel I-beams for a frame and you'll be good to go for > the multi-thousand gallon tank that would be needed. > > Yes, I'm just kidding... but seriously, you would need a multi- thousand > gallon tank and a massive filtration system to handle the waste of even a > single nurse shark. > > A quick Google would have brought you lots of info. Here's two of the > websites that showed up in the top of my search for "nurse shark"... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_shark (says they grow to 14' long) and > http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/fish/nurse-shark.html (also > says 14' long). > > Your question in "2)" below, is a common misunderstanding by many fish > hobbyists. While many species of the entire animal kingdom will only grow > to a size suitable for their surroundings, it is NOT the right thing to do > when done intentionally by someone keeping a pet. It's called stunting and > will cause a fish stress which then leads to multiple health issues and > ultimately an early death. > > That said, sharks and other HUGE fish should be left in the wild or at > worst, in the giant public aquariums that exist in many areas of the world > that have massive filtration and cooling systems and constant PWC's (partial > water changes). Anything smaller than those giant public aquarium is > pushing things. Even those public aquariums are grossly overstocked as > evidenced by the fact that ALL of the fish in the Aquarium Of America, in > New Orleans, died after they lost power for weeks during Hurricane Katrina > in 2005. That reminds me that I haven't heard how the AOA did after Gustav. > I'm guessing they have emergency generators now and since the power wasn't > out for very long around here, hopefully they all made it this time on > generator power. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of rsteph49 > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:36 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question Regard Fish and Tank Size > > I was looking at one of my local fish stores, at some of the neat fish that > I can niether afford, nor house in my tank right now... > getting some ideas of what I want when I upgrade to a bigger tank. > One thing I saw that got me to thinking was a nurse shark, probably about > 1.5-2 feet long. That got me to wondering about having a shark tank; has > anyone on this forum ever tried to have a tank with a shark? > > Some questions I had: > > 1) What size tank do you need to house a nurse shark, and give it enough > room to swim around happily? > > 2) Do sharks, like some other fish grow to the size of their sorroundings? > Meaning, if I have a 200 gallon tank (don't have yet but would love to), > would it grow to a size to fit that tank, or will it grow to it's standard > size regardless of the size tank it's in? > > 3) What do you need to feed a nurse shark? Can I use the frozen Brine/Krill > shrimp combo I use for my current fish, or would I need live fish for > feeding? > > 4) What are some fish and invertabrates that I could have in the tank with > it without them becoming food almost immediately? > > 5) How hard is the upkeep, caretaking for a shark compared to other fish > (clowns, puffers, angelfish, etc.)? > > Any other thoughts, warnings, concerns that anyone might have I'd love to > get as much info as I can - useful websites seem to be scarce on this > subject. I'm not planning to purchase one right now, but I am looking to get > a bigger tank than the 25 gallon starter tank I've got right now (and had > for a while to get my feet wet in saltwater tanks); so I'm looking at what > kind of primary fish I want for my tank to determine what size tank I need, > and what kind of other fish/invertebrates/etc. I can have in the tank as > well... > > Thanks in advance for any thoughts or information that anyone can offer. > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 > Tested on: 9/5/2008 11:42:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29723	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

Is there any chance people are confused about the fresh water sharks? They aren't really sharks, they're fish, but they are sort of shaped like sharks. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size PS..... My DH is a fisherman and he said Nurse Shark is on very low side of vicious . One of the tamer breeds of shark. I just can't imagine anyone trying to keep a salt water shark in a home tank  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Gregg Bender Date: 9/5/2008 2:08:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size Well, a nurse shark can grow to over 4 feet long. As far as I know, sharks grow for their entire lifespan. Nurse Sharks are also nocturnal and prefer to hide in the daytime. They are also well armed with teeth and can inflict serious wounds. Wikipedia says: "Their diet consists primarily of crustaceans, molluscs, tunicates, and other fish, particularly stingrays. Their diet consists of a large number of marine invertebrates - spiny lobsters, crabs, shrimp, sea urchins, octopuses, squid, and marine snails and bivalves. They are thought to take advantage of dormant fish which would otherwise be too fast for the sharks to catch; although their small mouths limit the size of prey items, the sharks have large throat cavities which are used as a sort of bellows valve. In this way nurse sharks are able to suck in their prey. Nurse sharks are also known to graze algae and coral." That could get expensive fast. As I recall, unlike many sharks, the nurse shark does not have to swim constantly to breathe, so that isn't an issue. All in all, IMHO this does not seem to be a good candidate for the average (or even above-average) home aquarist, unless you have a budget where cost is no obstacle and you decide to build yourself a personal Sea World. Two fins down, IMHO. :-( ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29724	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

I have a 3000 foot well so my water too is filtered through natural means (filtered in wetlands, through the soil and other compounds in the ground, etc ). Many municipalities in my area get their water from wells, even city water. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 12:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: catching rain water Our drinking water is treated and the water that fish swim in is mostly filtered through natural means(filtered in wetlands, through the soil and other compounds in the ground, etc ). If you check your municipality’s water site, they generally have information about what is added to the water and what processes the water goes through before it reaches your tap. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: catching rain water --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What about acid rain and other environmental concerns? > It's my understanding that the clean air act cleaned up our rain somewhat... and aren't wild fish living in rain water? Isn't the chlorinated water that comes out our taps originally rain water, that went into a river then to a treatment plant and got filtered and chlorinated? (at least in this part of the US ... I toured the plant during a teacher workshop.) I don't recall them doing anything to the pH before sending it to my tap... so in that way the tap water would be pretty close to my rain. The biggest difference would be the addition of chlorine then dechlorinating chemicals. I still think starting out without those two ingredients would be more natural. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29725	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: catching rain water

Thanks, I was just wondering whether to make the effort to correct that, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 3:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: catching rain water Oops.. I just realized that Diana asked the question about fish living in rain water, not Donna... but my answer remains the same. Sorry for the mix-up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: catching rain water --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What about acid rain and other environmental concerns? > It's my understanding that the clean air act cleaned up our rain somewhat... and aren't wild fish living in rain water? Isn't the chlorinated water that comes out our taps originally rain water, that went into a river then to a treatment plant and got filtered and chlorinated? (at least in this part of the US ... I toured the plant during a teacher workshop.) I don't recall them doing anything to the pH before sending it to my tap... so in that way the tap water would be pretty close to my rain. The biggest difference would be the addition of chlorine then dechlorinating chemicals. I still think starting out without those two ingredients would be more natural. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080904-1, 09/04/2008 Tested on: 9/5/2008 2:18:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29726	From: mike	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: : air bubble problem & evaporation question

yeah i might. I put the filterpad on inside of box and it breaks the fall of bubbles. The pump still started sucking air after 18 hours. When i stopped it and let water trickle to settle, the sump was an inch lower! Does evaporation really loose THAT much water? I added over a gallon on a 55 gallon tank in 18 hours. and its fine now, we"ll see tomorrow!--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > But it looks like the bubbles are on the underside of the Plexiglas so the > water falling into the overflow box wouldn't create those. Do you have your > returning water from this filter system or another one nearby the overflow > box? > > I think if you can lessen the number of bubbles in the water near the > overflow box intake, if there are any... and possibly make it deeper, as you > suggested, those two things would certainly go a long way in stopping > bubbles from getting up into your u-tube. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: u tube syphon air bubble problem > > nope, no bubble makers. Maybe the box is just too shallow and the bubbles > are created by the waterfall into the box. I should make a deeper one and > have the tube go down further than the bubbles do. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I see small bubbles forming on the underside of the overflow box > intake, > > inside of the tank. Do you have an airstone in the tank near the > overflow > > box? If yes, you should move it away so that you are not seeing > bubbles > > forming near your overflow intake. These small bubbles look like > they would > > eventually roll up the side of your overflow intake and could > easily become > > suspended in the water and get sucked into your u-tube. > > > > This can also happen with HOB's or any other filter system where > the intake > > is sucking in bubbles from an airstone and the lift tube of the > HOB will > > eventually get enough air in it to form cavitations (gurgling > sound) or > > complete loss of suction. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of mike > > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] u tube syphon air bubble problem > > > > Hey guys! I thought I had it until I see that an air bubble > develops in u > > tube syphon tube and gets bigger until failure, within 12 hours. > Why doesn't > > everyone have the problem of tiny bubbles accumulating? Maybe 2 > baffles > > acting like a bubble shield would work in front of overflow box? > > > > I put my u tube on youtube LOL to get a visual, thanks. > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c> > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 > Tested on: 9/5/2008 4:25:55 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29727	From: Chris	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Request from a Digester

Oh. It sounds like something that happens in the stomach, or uses enzimes to break down waste. Isn't it easier to have individual messages mailed to you and read only the ones that interest you that way you have to sort through less filler? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Chris, > > YahooGroups offers various ways to read the messages posted. You can go to > the website and do it and reply from the website but you can also choose to > have the messages emailed to you and reply via email... which is how I do it > for most of my groups. You can also choose to get a "Daily Digest" which is > a single email containing all of the messages of the day. If a group has > more than 25 messages a day, then people get multiple digests. I do get > these for a couple of my other groups. They can be quite long and then if > someone hits the reply button and types out their reply, the LONG digest is > included as part of the reply. The digests are usually over 200KB so doing > this also clogs up the internet resources for those millions of people who > are still on slower speed internet or dial-up... especially if multiple > people do not edit down the size of the digest to only include the message > they were replying to. > > I hope that explained it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Request from a Digester > > what are you talking about? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Paula Brown" <paulabrown4480@> > wrote: > > > > I am about a month behind on my digests so please excuse this if it > has already been addressed. In trying to catch up on my digests, I have > noticed a few times that texastears has replied to a post but he/she > evidently receives this list via the digest form like I do. So when he/she > has hit Reply, the entire digest that he/she is responding to is again > included - thus meaning that those of us on digest have to scroll through an > entire digest that we have already read. > > > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 > Tested on: 9/5/2008 11:48:15 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29728	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: old tank

After further investigating I found that the tank is a 65 gal instead of 55 gal. Also, it held water!!! yay!! Dad and I hauled it up the stairs and back down. Over the next few weeks I will set it up. I'll send pics when it's up and running. Now, another question. I tested my tank water and the nitrates are through the roof. I but some enzyme stuff in there and it came down a wee bit. My pH is so high...the chart goes to 7.4 (dark blue), and its darker then that. I put 3x the dosage to lower it, and nothing. Any ideas?? Do I have it backwards?? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If you have to use it, it's probably better to put crushed coral or > limestone in a filter media bag and either hide it behind a decoration or > plant or put it in a filter reservoir if you need it leaching even faster > into the water. Once you put it loose in the substrate, it's much too hard > to regulate. At least with it in a media bag, if it starts changing things > too fast, you can remove it as needed or lessen the amount or add a second > bag if it's not working as needed. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > Use of coral or coral sand is generally frowned upon in a freshwater tank. > The presence of the coral will increase the hardness of the water and may > also affect the pH by raising it. If you are trying to raise the hardness of > your water, you can try the coral, but keep an eye on your water parameters > so that they do not get out of line, though the hardcore aesthetes would > frown upon that as the coral is not a natural freshwater element in the > wild, and its presence in a tank would be a travesty. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > That is a great idea!!! Also, my dad has some old coral in a box from this > tank as well. It used to be saltwater before I was around (lol) Is it > possible to use it in a freshwater tank? It's been dry as long as I am old > so I'm pretty sure any germs and stuff would be dead lol I know I'd have to > soak it forever to get most of the salt off, but I think my Red Tail Shark > would love having a piece as his own. > > --- > In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > I picked up an old steel framed tank on freecycle awhile > back.never got > > around to replacing the glass that was broken on it. I kept it > because they > > just look cool :-D This has a slate bottom. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > I bet you hear back from a lot of people that are still using > them "old" > > stainless steel framed tanks with the slate bottoms. Personally, I > don't > > have any but I know they must still be in use in great numbers. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of joe t > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:26 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > Hi Angela: > > > > You said "old" tank, but that's not saying what kind of tank and > how old. > > I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I still recommend trying > out the > > tank outside if you can. If you think putting it outside is a lot > of work, > > wait till it start leaking, maybe, and you have to clean all that > up. > > > > Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel tanks of > yesteryear, > > don't even try it. I can almost guarantee it is going to leak. > > > > joe t > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 11:40:45 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29729	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: : air bubble problem & evaporation question

Evaporation would definitely happen when there is more water agitation in an open system. Is your sump and trickle filter a closed system or at least mostly closed or is it wide open? Further, warmer tank water evaporates faster and a dryer room (caused by air conditioning or just a dry climate) would also allow for faster evaporation. If you get a piece of plexiglass and just cut out notches where you need them for your plumbing, etc., you would cut down on the evaporation quite a bit. On the other end of the spectrum, if you have a situation where the tank water is getting too warm, like due to a home cooling system failure or power failure, uncovering the tank and increasing surface agitation would provide for more evaporation which would help cool down the water and raise the O2 levels in the water. Battery operated air stones are one way of achieving this added surface agitation when there is no other power source. Just thought I'd throw that in since it's hurricane season for many more weeks. More on dealing with power failures in my blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 6:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] : air bubble problem & evaporation question yeah i might. I put the filterpad on inside of box and it breaks the fall of bubbles. The pump still started sucking air after 18 hours. When i stopped it and let water trickle to settle, the sump was an inch lower! Does evaporation really loose THAT much water? I added over a gallon on a 55 gallon tank in 18 hours. and its fine now, we"ll see tomorrow!--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > But it looks like the bubbles are on the underside of the Plexiglas so the > water falling into the overflow box wouldn't create those. Do you have your > returning water from this filter system or another one nearby the overflow > box? > > I think if you can lessen the number of bubbles in the water near the > overflow box intake, if there are any... and possibly make it deeper, as you > suggested, those two things would certainly go a long way in stopping > bubbles from getting up into your u-tube. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: u tube syphon air bubble problem > > nope, no bubble makers. Maybe the box is just too shallow and the bubbles > are created by the waterfall into the box. I should make a deeper one and > have the tube go down further than the bubbles do. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I see small bubbles forming on the underside of the overflow box > intake, > > inside of the tank. Do you have an airstone in the tank near the > overflow > > box? If yes, you should move it away so that you are not seeing > bubbles > > forming near your overflow intake. These small bubbles look like > they would > > eventually roll up the side of your overflow intake and could > easily become > > suspended in the water and get sucked into your u-tube. > > > > This can also happen with HOB's or any other filter system where > the intake > > is sucking in bubbles from an airstone and the lift tube of the > HOB will > > eventually get enough air in it to form cavitations (gurgling > sound) or > > complete loss of suction. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of mike > > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] u tube syphon air bubble problem > > > > Hey guys! I thought I had it until I see that an air bubble > develops in u > > tube syphon tube and gets bigger until failure, within 12 hours. > Why doesn't > > everyone have the problem of tiny bubbles accumulating? Maybe 2 > baffles > > acting like a bubble shield would work in front of overflow box? > > > > I put my u tube on youtube LOL to get a visual, thanks. > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNqlEZlFG1c _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 Tested on: 9/5/2008 8:19:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29730	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: LittleSprite's Nitrate and pH issues (was Re:old tank)

ARGGGHH... Someone hasn't been reading very many of the posts out here. DO NOT ever, never, never, ever, ever, never throw chemicals into your tank to try and fix problems... unless you have been specifically advised to do so by someone who knows what they are talking about... and it's not usually the employee at the store selling you the chemicals. There are always much better, more natural ways to fix problems without turning your tank into a chemical cess pool worthy of a hazardous waste site declaration. Did I say ever and never enough times? LOL What are/were you nitrate levels? You need a pH high level test kit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a pH or 7.6 or 7.8 or 8.0 or 8.2... and I even see pH's or 9.0 where there are no problems to Koi in ponds. But you need to know what your actual number is... not just darker blue than 7.4. I understand you threw some kind of enzymes in for your alleged nitrate problem. What is the actual brand name of the product? Also, what is the brand name of the chemical you put in your tank for your alleged pH problem? IMMEDIATELY, do a 25% PWC's using the best possible thing you can ever put in your tank, fresh clean dechlored water. Test your tank before and after the PWC. Give us your numbers. After a few hours and whatever replies you get from us, do another 25% PWC. You need to get all of the chemicals out of your tank but you have to do it in a controlled and slow manner so you do not cause further harm to the fish by changing the water parameters too much, too fast... which is usually what chemicals will do. Also, test your tap water and give us the numbers for it also. You may have to do a series of 25% PWC's, one every 3-4 hours over the course of a couple of days to get the nitrate levels down... if they are really off the charts. What brand test kit do you have? You should also vacuum your gravel good and do filter maintenance as you could have something that died and is decaying which will cause the nitrate levels to climb. Over feeding the fish will also do it over time. I have a long article about Nitrates on my blog. Read over it. Tell us about your tank again as well. What size? How many fish? What size fish? How long has the tank been set up? What kind of filter system(s)? How frequently have you been doing 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank After further investigating I found that the tank is a 65 gal instead of 55 gal. Also, it held water!!! yay!! Dad and I hauled it up the stairs and back down. Over the next few weeks I will set it up. I'll send pics when it's up and running. Now, another question. I tested my tank water and the nitrates are through the roof. I but some enzyme stuff in there and it came down a wee bit. My pH is so high...the chart goes to 7.4 (dark blue), and its darker then that. I put 3x the dosage to lower it, and nothing. Any ideas?? Do I have it backwards?? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If you have to use it, it's probably better to put crushed coral or > limestone in a filter media bag and either hide it behind a decoration or > plant or put it in a filter reservoir if you need it leaching even faster > into the water. Once you put it loose in the substrate, it's much too hard > to regulate. At least with it in a media bag, if it starts changing things > too fast, you can remove it as needed or lessen the amount or add a second > bag if it's not working as needed. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > Use of coral or coral sand is generally frowned upon in a freshwater tank. > The presence of the coral will increase the hardness of the water and may > also affect the pH by raising it. If you are trying to raise the hardness of > your water, you can try the coral, but keep an eye on your water parameters > so that they do not get out of line, though the hardcore aesthetes would > frown upon that as the coral is not a natural freshwater element in the > wild, and its presence in a tank would be a travesty. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > That is a great idea!!! Also, my dad has some old coral in a box from this > tank as well. It used to be saltwater before I was around (lol) Is it > possible to use it in a freshwater tank? It's been dry as long as I am old > so I'm pretty sure any germs and stuff would be dead lol I know I'd have to > soak it forever to get most of the salt off, but I think my Red Tail Shark > would love having a piece as his own. > > --- > In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > I picked up an old steel framed tank on freecycle awhile > back.never got > > around to replacing the glass that was broken on it. I kept it > because they > > just look cool :-D This has a slate bottom. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > I bet you hear back from a lot of people that are still using > them "old" > > stainless steel framed tanks with the slate bottoms. Personally, I > don't > > have any but I know they must still be in use in great numbers. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of joe t > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:26 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > Hi Angela: > > > > You said "old" tank, but that's not saying what kind of tank and > how old. > > I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I still recommend trying > out the > > tank outside if you can. If you think putting it outside is a lot > of work, > > wait till it start leaking, maybe, and you have to clean all that > up. > > > > Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel tanks of > yesteryear, > > don't even try it. I can almost guarantee it is going to leak. > > > > joe t > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 Tested on: 9/3/2008 > 11:40:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 Tested on: 9/5/2008 8:16:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 Tested on: 9/5/2008 8:41:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29731	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

For nitrates, do a water change. What is the “through the roof” reading? I think you said what kind of fish you have, but I forget. What pH is needed by your fish? It’s much harder to lower pH than raise it. I had the idea you wanted to raise the pH because you were asking about limestone and crushed coral. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank After further investigating I found that the tank is a 65 gal instead of 55 gal. Also, it held water!!! yay!! Dad and I hauled it up the stairs and back down. Over the next few weeks I will set it up. I'll send pics when it's up and running. Now, another question. I tested my tank water and the nitrates are through the roof. I but some enzyme stuff in there and it came down a wee bit. My pH is so high...the chart goes to 7.4 (dark blue), and its darker then that. I put 3x the dosage to lower it, and nothing. Any ideas?? Do I have it backwards?? --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If you have to use it, it's probably better to put crushed coral or > limestone in a filter media bag and either hide it behind a decoration or > plant or put it in a filter reservoir if you need it leaching even faster > into the water. Once you put it loose in the substrate, it's much too hard > to regulate. At least with it in a media bag, if it starts changing things > too fast, you can remove it as needed or lessen the amount or add a second > bag if it's not working as needed. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > Use of coral or coral sand is generally frowned upon in a freshwater tank. > The presence of the coral will increase the hardness of the water and may > also affect the pH by raising it. If you are trying to raise the hardness of > your water, you can try the coral, but keep an eye on your water parameters > so that they do not get out of line, though the hardcore aesthetes would > frown upon that as the coral is not a natural freshwater element in the > wild, and its presence in a tank would be a travesty. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > That is a great idea!!! Also, my dad has some old coral in a box from this > tank as well. It used to be saltwater before I was around (lol) Is it > possible to use it in a freshwater tank? It's been dry as long as I am old > so I'm pretty sure any germs and stuff would be dead lol I know I'd have to > soak it forever to get most of the salt off, but I think my Red Tail Shark > would love having a piece as his own. > > --- > In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > I picked up an old steel framed tank on freecycle awhile > back.never got > > around to replacing the glass that was broken on it. I kept it > because they > > just look cool :-D This has a slate bottom. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > I bet you hear back from a lot of people that are still using > them "old" > > stainless steel framed tanks with the slate bottoms. Personally, I > don't > > have any but I know they must still be in use in great numbers. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of joe t > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:26 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > Hi Angela: > > > > You said "old" tank, but that's not saying what kind of tank and > how old. > > I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I still recommend trying > out the > > tank outside if you can. If you think putting it outside is a lot > of work, > > wait till it start leaking, maybe, and you have to clean all that > up. > > > > Now if you mean real OLD, like the old stainless steel tanks of > yesteryear, > > don't even try it. I can almost guarantee it is going to leak. > > > > joe t > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080903-0, 09/03/2008 > Tested on: 9/3/2008 11:40:45 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29732	From: alice_summer2008	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: hi

i'm new to the group i love fish they are so cool

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29733	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?

In a message dated 9/5/2008 4:16:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, steve@... writes: It is more than one MALE betta in a tank that will cause problems. Keeping multiple females together is a relatively safe bet, since they are not nearly as aggressive as the males are. In a large enough tank you can keep multiple males as territorial fights could be nonexistent, and, at best, you may see some show, but no real fighting at territorial edges. Steve, I beg to differ. I have kept up to 3 male bettas in the same tank and multiple females. It was a 10 gal. NOT heavily planted, just a couple of sprigs of hornsworth. The trick was simple; turned one male loose in the tank with the females, kept a second male in a floating trap for about a week ( until they started ignoring each other), once I got to that point the "trapped" male was released. Of course, this was done on a day I could just be there and intervene if they attacked each other, but it never happened. After a week of waiting I added another male to the trap and repeated the procedure. NEVER did I have agrgession between the males, in fact, when I wanted them to "show off" I would put a mirror on the side of the tank and, believe it or not, each male only attacked it's reflection (the invading betta) but not the tankmates. The females would also engage their reflection in battle. It was a great conversation piece as I proved that you cannot generalize about any species you think you know about. Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29734	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/5/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

i can give u a list! finding one now that would be a slight problem... first.. where do u live? there are a ton of smaller species under 5 feet in length. On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 2:20 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@...> wrote: > What would be some of the smaller species? Anything that would live > comfortable in say a 300 gallon (give or take) tank? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "L. > Gove" <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: > > > > sharks did u say sharks.. like salt water.. ask away its my favorite > > subject... > > Nurse sharks grow to about 8 feet.. > > there are smalleer species.. > > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 12:51 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@...> wrote: > > > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29735	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

Even the smallest SW sharks grow to over 3' long and even those would be much too large for a 300G tank. You can see a few of these smaller species available at http://www.LiveAquaria.com (search 'salt water shark'). Of course, LiveAquaria says that a 180G tank is OK but that would be for the sharks as babies. Unfortunately, many retailers grossly under-recommend sufficient tank sizes in their zest to sell product. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 12:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size i can give u a list! finding one now that would be a slight problem... first.. where do u live? there are a ton of smaller species under 5 feet in length. On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 2:20 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@... <mailto:rsteph49%40hotmail.com> > wrote: > What would be some of the smaller species? Anything that would live > comfortable in say a 300 gallon (give or take) tank? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "L. > Gove" <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: > > > > sharks did u say sharks.. like salt water.. ask away its my favorite > > subject... > > Nurse sharks grow to about 8 feet.. > > there are smalleer species.. > > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 12:51 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@...> wrote: > > > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 Tested on: 9/6/2008 2:49:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29736	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

300G should be enough water to support a shark, maybe even a breeding pair, BIG aquariums are always looking for ppl to raise babies.. i have looked into this in great detail. On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 3:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > Even the smallest SW sharks grow to over 3' long and even those would be > much too large for a 300G tank. You can see a few of these smaller species > available at http://www.LiveAquaria.com <http://www.liveaquaria.com/>(search 'salt water shark'). Of > course, LiveAquaria says that a 180G tank is OK but that would be for the > sharks as babies. Unfortunately, many retailers grossly under-recommend > sufficient tank sizes in their zest to sell product. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of L. Gove > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 12:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size > > i can give u a list! finding one now that would be a slight problem... > first.. where do u live? > > there are a ton of smaller species under 5 feet in length. > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 2:20 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@...<rsteph49%40hotmail.com> > <mailto:rsteph49%40hotmail.com <rsteph49%2540hotmail.com>> > wrote: > > > What would be some of the smaller species? Anything that would live > > comfortable in say a 300 gallon (give or take) tank? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "L. > > Gove" <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: > > > > > > sharks did u say sharks.. like salt water.. ask away its my favorite > > > subject... > > > Nurse sharks grow to about 8 feet.. > > > there are smalleer species.. > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 12:51 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 > Tested on: 9/6/2008 2:49:14 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29737	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

there are species under 3ft. take the bullhead shark, or horn shark, bunches of dogfish are under 3ft. On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 4:02 AM, L. Gove <kwelyroos71@...> wrote: > 300G should be enough water to support a shark, maybe even a breeding pair, > BIG aquariums are always looking for ppl to raise babies.. i have looked > into this in great detail. > > > On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 3:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@...> wrote: > >> Even the smallest SW sharks grow to over 3' long and even those would >> be >> much too large for a 300G tank. You can see a few of these smaller species >> available at http://www.LiveAquaria.com <http://www.liveaquaria.com/>(search 'salt water shark'). Of >> course, LiveAquaria says that a 180G tank is OK but that would be for the >> sharks as babies. Unfortunately, many retailers grossly under-recommend >> sufficient tank sizes in their zest to sell product. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: >> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of L. Gove >> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 12:57 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size >> >> i can give u a list! finding one now that would be a slight problem... >> first.. where do u live? >> >> there are a ton of smaller species under 5 feet in length. >> >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 2:20 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@...<rsteph49%40hotmail.com> >> <mailto:rsteph49%40hotmail.com <rsteph49%2540hotmail.com>> > wrote: >> >> > What would be some of the smaller species? Anything that would live >> > comfortable in say a 300 gallon (give or take) tank? >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: >> AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "L. >> > Gove" <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: >> > > >> > > sharks did u say sharks.. like salt water.. ask away its my favorite >> > > subject... >> > > Nurse sharks grow to about 8 feet.. >> > > there are smalleer species.. >> > > >> > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 12:51 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@...> wrote: >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Blessed be >> >> Lisa and Spike psd >> (soon to be a pup in training here) >> >> _____ >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 >> Tested on: 9/6/2008 2:49:14 AM >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> >> > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > on yahoo kwelyroos71 > on MSN kwelyroos71@... > on aol kwelyroos1971 > google talk kwelyroos71 > ICQ 477496656 > dark.moon.crafts@... > kwelyroos71@... > kwelyroos71@... > www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering > www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak > www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29738	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

Yes, there may be a relatively few number of sharks that are under 3' but even those smallest of the bullhead group are nearly 2' and not all bullhead sharks are under 3'... many of the group reach up to 5' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullhead_sharks. You can click on the links to the nine separate species that make up the bullhead group to see their expected sizes. The majority of them are over 3'. Dogfish are the same way... there may be some under 3' but many grow to over 3' but even a 2' long carnivore is pushing the limits of a 300G tank. The MAJOR problem with trying to push the limits of SW fish, compared to FW fish, is that sharks generally are carnivores (although there are exceptions) and they generally have very high metabolisms which means they would require larger amounts of food, in comparison, so you would have MAJOR water quality issues trying to keep a BIG fish in a relatively small tank. SW fish are generally much more sensitive to water quality issues compared to FW fish so trying to push the limits will meet with failure much more often than success. Like I've said many times before... can it be done? Yes. Should it be done (or even promoted to the average fish keeping hobbyist)? NO! For every instance where someone is successful in keeping such a large fish in such a limited tank size, there will have been hundreds of failures resulting in dead fish. Even the few that survive will be living very miserable lives in such small tanks... yes, a 300G tank is small for a 2' to 3' long SW fish considering a tank should be at least 6 to 8 times longer than the expected fish size so a 2' to 3' long fish should be in at least a 12' to 18' long tank (and that is a minimum tank length) and a standard 300G is nowhere near that size. In a 300G tank, their lives will consist of swim, turn, swim, turn, swim, turn... not a very good life for a fish that has the option of swimming long distances in vast ocean areas. If you check their preferred depth ranges, they do not normally live out their lives in 24" of water although they will come into the shallower waters for feeding purposes. Here is the Fishbase.org profile on the Zebra Bullhead shark and it's preferred depth range is 50-200 meters. http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=746 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 3:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size there are species under 3ft. take the bullhead shark, or horn shark, bunches of dogfish are under 3ft. On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 4:02 AM, L. Gove <kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> > wrote: > 300G should be enough water to support a shark, maybe even a breeding > pair, BIG aquariums are always looking for ppl to raise babies.. i > have looked into this in great detail. > > > On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 3:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Even the smallest SW sharks grow to over 3' long and even those would >> be much too large for a 300G tank. You can see a few of these smaller >> species available at http://www.LiveAquaria.com >> <http://www.LiveAquaria.com> <http://www.liveaquaria.com/ >> <http://www.liveaquaria.com/> >(search 'salt water shark'). Of >> course, LiveAquaria says that a 180G tank is OK but that would be for >> the sharks as babies. Unfortunately, many retailers grossly under-recommend sufficient tank sizes in their zest to sell product. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ >> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: >> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of L. Gove >> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 12:57 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size >> >> i can give u a list! finding one now that would be a slight problem... >> first.. where do u live? >> >> there are a ton of smaller species under 5 feet in length. >> >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 2:20 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@... >> <mailto:rsteph49%40hotmail.com> <rsteph49%40hotmail.com> <mailto:rsteph49%40hotmail.com <mailto:rsteph49%40hotmail.com <rsteph49%2540hotmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >> > What would be some of the smaller species? Anything that would live >> > comfortable in say a 300 gallon (give or take) tank? >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: >> AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "L. >> > Gove" <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: >> > > >> > > sharks did u say sharks.. like salt water.. ask away its my >> > > favorite subject... >> > > Nurse sharks grow to about 8 feet.. >> > > there are smalleer species.. >> > > >> > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 12:51 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@...> wrote: >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Blessed be >> >> Lisa and Spike psd >> (soon to be a pup in training here) >> >> _____ >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 Tested on: 9/6/2008 >> 2:49:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> >> > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 Tested on: 9/6/2008 4:38:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29739	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size

your best bet, will probably (if your lucky to live near a BIG aquarium/zoo) is to ask if they need someone to raise pups.. I know the new england aquarium has a program like that.. oh yes.. i completely know... Lenny if u saw my house you'd understnad.. i am completely totatlly OBESESSED with sharks!!! I have many many many books, i know scientists personally... I know more than the average person.. without looking anything up... about sharks.. and almost all species is stored in my head. i love them, i hope to one day work/study them. On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 5:38 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > Yes, there may be a relatively few number of sharks that are under 3' > but > even those smallest of the bullhead group are nearly 2' and not all > bullhead > sharks are under 3'... many of the group reach up to 5' > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullhead_sharks. You can click on the links > to > the nine separate species that make up the bullhead group to see their > expected sizes. The majority of them are over 3'. Dogfish are the same > way... there may be some under 3' but many grow to over 3' but even a 2' > long carnivore is pushing the limits of a 300G tank. > > The MAJOR problem with trying to push the limits of SW fish, compared to FW > fish, is that sharks generally are carnivores (although there are > exceptions) and they generally have very high metabolisms which means they > would require larger amounts of food, in comparison, so you would have > MAJOR > water quality issues trying to keep a BIG fish in a relatively small tank. > SW fish are generally much more sensitive to water quality issues compared > to FW fish so trying to push the limits will meet with failure much more > often than success. > > Like I've said many times before... can it be done? Yes. Should it be done > (or even promoted to the average fish keeping hobbyist)? NO! > > For every instance where someone is successful in keeping such a large fish > in such a limited tank size, there will have been hundreds of failures > resulting in dead fish. Even the few that survive will be living very > miserable lives in such small tanks... yes, a 300G tank is small for a 2' > to > 3' long SW fish considering a tank should be at least 6 to 8 times longer > than the expected fish size so a 2' to 3' long fish should be in at least a > 12' to 18' long tank (and that is a minimum tank length) and a standard > 300G > is nowhere near that size. In a 300G tank, their lives will consist of > swim, turn, swim, turn, swim, turn... not a very good life for a fish that > has the option of swimming long distances in vast ocean areas. > > If you check their preferred depth ranges, they do not normally live out > their lives in 24" of water although they will come into the shallower > waters for feeding purposes. Here is the Fishbase.org profile on the Zebra > Bullhead shark and it's preferred depth range is 50-200 meters. > http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=746 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of L. Gove > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 3:04 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size > > there are species under 3ft. take the bullhead shark, or horn shark, > bunches > of dogfish are under 3ft. > > On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 4:02 AM, L. Gove <kwelyroos71@...<kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> > <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com <kwelyroos71%2540gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > 300G should be enough water to support a shark, maybe even a breeding > > pair, BIG aquariums are always looking for ppl to raise babies.. i > > have looked into this in great detail. > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 3:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto: > GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > >> Even the smallest SW sharks grow to over 3' long and even those would > >> be much too large for a 300G tank. You can see a few of these smaller > >> species available at http://www.LiveAquaria.com<http://www.liveaquaria.com/> > >> <http://www.LiveAquaria.com <http://www.liveaquaria.com/>> < > http://www.liveaquaria.com/ > >> <http://www.liveaquaria.com/> >(search 'salt water shark'). Of > >> course, LiveAquaria says that a 180G tank is OK but that would be for > >> the sharks as babies. Unfortunately, many retailers grossly > under-recommend sufficient tank sizes in their zest to sell product. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> < > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > >> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: > >> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of L. Gove > >> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 12:57 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question Regard Fish and Tank Size > >> > >> i can give u a list! finding one now that would be a slight problem... > >> first.. where do u live? > >> > >> there are a ton of smaller species under 5 feet in length. > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 2:20 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@...<rsteph49%40hotmail.com> > >> <mailto:rsteph49%40hotmail.com <rsteph49%2540hotmail.com>> <rsteph49% > 40hotmail.com> > <mailto:rsteph49%40hotmail.com <rsteph49%2540hotmail.com> <mailto: > rsteph49%40hotmail.com <rsteph49%2540hotmail.com> > <rsteph49%2540hotmail.com> >> > wrote: > >> > >> > What would be some of the smaller species? Anything that would live > >> > comfortable in say a 300 gallon (give or take) tank? > >> > > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > >> AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "L. > >> > Gove" <KWELYROOS71@...> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > sharks did u say sharks.. like salt water.. ask away its my > >> > > favorite subject... > >> > > Nurse sharks grow to about 8 feet.. > >> > > there are smalleer species.. > >> > > > >> > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 12:51 PM, rsteph49 <rsteph49@...> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Blessed be > >> > >> Lisa and Spike psd > >> (soon to be a pup in training here) > >> > >> _____ > >> > >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > >> > >> Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 Tested on: 9/6/2008 > >> 2:49:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Blessed be > > > > Lisa and Spike psd > > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080905-0, 09/05/2008 > Tested on: 9/6/2008 4:38:38 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29740	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Fun Fish Housekeeping Behavior

I have a 38G tank with African Cichlids from Lake Tanganyika: Altolamprologus Calvus Inkfin and Lamprologus Caudopunctatus. I watched the tank this morning to identify the architect of a new excavation. It was the smallest Caudo. The fish went into the cave and wiggled vigorously. Came out with a good-sized snail with it's lips (the snail was about 5X too big to fit inside the mouth of the fish). Carried the snail over to the corner of the tank and unceremoniously spit the snail into the corner! I guess the wiggling was necessary because the live snail did not want to let go, LOL. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29741	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

I think that for nitrates through the roof what you do is water changes. You can either do one big one, or a number of smaller ones. From the discussion on this list high nitrates mean a high concentration of more than just nitrates. In nature they would wash away downstream, but in the aquarium, you have to do it! Also, is the ph higher than the water out of your tap? Over time evaporation leads to a concentration of minerals in the water; another reason for water changes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "littlesprite43086" <littlesprite43086@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank After further investigating I found that the tank is a 65 gal instead of 55 gal. Also, it held water!!! yay!! Dad and I hauled it up the stairs and back down. Over the next few weeks I will set it up. I'll send pics when it's up and running. Now, another question. I tested my tank water and the nitrates are through the roof. I but some enzyme stuff in there and it came down a wee bit. My pH is so high...the chart goes to 7.4 (dark blue), and its darker then that. I put 3x the dosage to lower it, and nothing. Any ideas?? Do I have it backwards??

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29742	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: old tank

Hello All, I'm sorry if I confused you about the coral. I was asking about using it as a decoration/hiding place for my red tail shark. I think the pH reducer I was using is expired, so I bought new stuff. The nitrates were still high after a 50% water change. I haven't been home to see how the enzymes were working yet. We are on a well, and the pH is just as high out of the faucet as it is in the tank. Good thing about a well though...no chlorine!!! lol --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I think that for nitrates through the roof what you do is water changes. > You can either do one big one, or a number of smaller ones. From the > discussion on this list high nitrates mean a high concentration of more than > just nitrates. In nature they would wash away downstream, but in the > aquarium, you have to do it! > > Also, is the ph higher than the water out of your tap? Over time > evaporation leads to a concentration of minerals in the water; another > reason for water changes. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "littlesprite43086" <littlesprite43086@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:54 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > After further investigating I found that the tank is a 65 gal instead > of 55 gal. Also, it held water!!! yay!! Dad and I hauled it up the > stairs and back down. Over the next few weeks I will set it up. I'll > send pics when it's up and running. Now, another question. I tested > my tank water and the nitrates are through the roof. I but some > enzyme stuff in there and it came down a wee bit. My pH is so > high...the chart goes to 7.4 (dark blue), and its darker then that. I > put 3x the dosage to lower it, and nothing. Any ideas?? Do I have it > backwards?? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29743	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

It's hard for anyone to help you if you won't post your test results or the types of chemicals you are adding to your tank. I stand by my last post that you shouldn't be adding ANY enzyme or pH reducing chemicals... nor most other chemicals to your fish tank. There are NO SHORTCUTS to doing proper tank maintenance. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 6:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank Hello All, I'm sorry if I confused you about the coral. I was asking about using it as a decoration/hiding place for my red tail shark. I think the pH reducer I was using is expired, so I bought new stuff. The nitrates were still high after a 50% water change. I haven't been home to see how the enzymes were working yet. We are on a well, and the pH is just as high out of the faucet as it is in the tank. Good thing about a well though...no chlorine!!! lol --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I think that for nitrates through the roof what you do is water changes. > You can either do one big one, or a number of smaller ones. From the > discussion on this list high nitrates mean a high concentration of more than > just nitrates. In nature they would wash away downstream, but in the > aquarium, you have to do it! > > Also, is the ph higher than the water out of your tap? Over time > evaporation leads to a concentration of minerals in the water; another > reason for water changes. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "littlesprite43086" <littlesprite43086@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:54 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > After further investigating I found that the tank is a 65 gal instead > of 55 gal. Also, it held water!!! yay!! Dad and I hauled it up the > stairs and back down. Over the next few weeks I will set it up. I'll > send pics when it's up and running. Now, another question. I tested my > tank water and the nitrates are through the roof. I but some enzyme > stuff in there and it came down a wee bit. My pH is so high...the > chart goes to 7.4 (dark blue), and its darker then that. I > put 3x the dosage to lower it, and nothing. Any ideas?? Do I have it > backwards?? > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080906-0, 09/06/2008 Tested on: 9/6/2008 7:08:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080906-0, 09/06/2008 Tested on: 9/6/2008 8:50:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29744	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

Use a high range pH tester and find out your true reading. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 7:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank Hello All, I'm sorry if I confused you about the coral. I was asking about using it as a decoration/hiding place for my red tail shark. I think the pH reducer I was using is expired, so I bought new stuff. The nitrates were still high after a 50% water change. I haven't been home to see how the enzymes were working yet. We are on a well, and the pH is just as high out of the faucet as it is in the tank. Good thing about a well though...no chlorine!!! lol --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I think that for nitrates through the roof what you do is water changes. > You can either do one big one, or a number of smaller ones. From the > discussion on this list high nitrates mean a high concentration of more than > just nitrates. In nature they would wash away downstream, but in the > aquarium, you have to do it! > > Also, is the ph higher than the water out of your tap? Over time > evaporation leads to a concentration of minerals in the water; another > reason for water changes. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "littlesprite43086" <littlesprite43086@...> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:54 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > After further investigating I found that the tank is a 65 gal instead > of 55 gal. Also, it held water!!! yay!! Dad and I hauled it up the > stairs and back down. Over the next few weeks I will set it up. I'll > send pics when it's up and running. Now, another question. I tested > my tank water and the nitrates are through the roof. I but some > enzyme stuff in there and it came down a wee bit. My pH is so > high...the chart goes to 7.4 (dark blue), and its darker then that. I > put 3x the dosage to lower it, and nothing. Any ideas?? Do I have it > backwards?? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29745	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?

You can likely get the same behavior if males are raised together from birth. On the whole, however, it is not wise to have more than one male betta in a tank, especially the smaller tanks. Also, the amount of aggression in betta, or other fish, will vary between fish and between strains. Fish that are less aggressive than the norm for the species can be bred to similar fish, and you will get a less aggressive next generation, following the rules of genetics. Some will be less aggressive than the parents, some more, and the rest equally aggressive as the parents. As always, in dealing with fish, YMMV. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 12:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Am I asking for trouble? In a message dated 9/5/2008 4:16:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, steve@... writes: It is more than one MALE betta in a tank that will cause problems. Keeping multiple females together is a relatively safe bet, since they are not nearly as aggressive as the males are. In a large enough tank you can keep multiple males as territorial fights could be nonexistent, and, at best, you may see some show, but no real fighting at territorial edges. Steve, I beg to differ. I have kept up to 3 male bettas in the same tank and multiple females. It was a 10 gal. NOT heavily planted, just a couple of sprigs of hornsworth. The trick was simple; turned one male loose in the tank with the females, kept a second male in a floating trap for about a week ( until they started ignoring each other), once I got to that point the "trapped" male was released. Of course, this was done on a day I could just be there and intervene if they attacked each other, but it never happened. After a week of waiting I added another male to the trap and repeated the procedure. NEVER did I have agrgession between the males, in fact, when I wanted them to "show off" I would put a mirror on the side of the tank and, believe it or not, each male only attacked it's reflection (the invading betta) but not the tankmates. The females would also engage their reflection in battle. It was a great conversation piece as I proved that you cannot generalize about any species you think you know about. Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?

I agree with \\Steve// though the fish may not always read the same literature or websites that we read. On a side not... what does "Yo Mama May Vacuum" have to do with fish keeping? :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 9:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Am I asking for trouble? You can likely get the same behavior if males are raised together from birth. On the whole, however, it is not wise to have more than one male betta in a tank, especially the smaller tanks. Also, the amount of aggression in betta, or other fish, will vary between fish and between strains. Fish that are less aggressive than the norm for the species can be bred to similar fish, and you will get a less aggressive next generation, following the rules of genetics. Some will be less aggressive than the parents, some more, and the rest equally aggressive as the parents. As always, in dealing with fish, YMMV. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... <mailto:Gwydryn%40aol.com> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 12:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Am I asking for trouble? In a message dated 9/5/2008 4:16:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> writes: It is more than one MALE betta in a tank that will cause problems. Keeping multiple females together is a relatively safe bet, since they are not nearly as aggressive as the males are. In a large enough tank you can keep multiple males as territorial fights could be nonexistent, and, at best, you may see some show, but no real fighting at territorial edges. Steve, I beg to differ. I have kept up to 3 male bettas in the same tank and multiple females. It was a 10 gal. NOT heavily planted, just a couple of sprigs of hornsworth. The trick was simple; turned one male loose in the tank with the females, kept a second male in a floating trap for about a week ( until they started ignoring each other), once I got to that point the "trapped" male was released. Of course, this was done on a day I could just be there and intervene if they attacked each other, but it never happened. After a week of waiting I added another male to the trap and repeated the procedure. NEVER did I have agrgession between the males, in fact, when I wanted them to "show off" I would put a mirror on the side of the tank and, believe it or not, each male only attacked it's reflection (the invading betta) but not the tankmates. The females would also engage their reflection in battle. It was a great conversation piece as I proved that you cannot generalize about any species you think you know about. Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014 <http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> ) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080906-0, 09/06/2008 Tested on: 9/6/2008 10:00:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29747	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?

i have actully seen ppl keep two male bettas in one tank, but the darn tank was HUGE! i don't know how many G's it was. and they lived peacefully together, BUT i think it was because of the room in the tank, and they had thier own territoires.. not because "they just got along" . i wouldn't advice that though, Lenny what do u think? On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 11:00 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > > > I agree with \\Steve// though the fish may not always read the same > literature or websites that we read. > > On a side not... what does "Yo Mama May Vacuum" have to do with fish > keeping? > > :-D > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 9:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Am I asking for trouble? > > You can likely get the same behavior if males are raised together from > birth. On the whole, however, it is not wise to have more than one male > betta in a tank, especially the smaller tanks. > > Also, the amount of aggression in betta, or other fish, will vary between > fish and between strains. Fish that are less aggressive than the norm for > the species can be bred to similar fish, and you will get a less aggressive > next generation, following the rules of genetics. Some will be less > aggressive than the parents, some more, and the rest equally aggressive as > the parents. > > As always, in dealing with fish, YMMV. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> ] > On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... <Gwydryn%40aol.com> <mailto:Gwydryn%40aol.com<Gwydryn%2540aol.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 12:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Am I asking for trouble? > > In a message dated 9/5/2008 4:16:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > steve@... <steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto: > steve%40familyszabo.com <steve%2540familyszabo.com>> writes: > > It is more than one MALE betta in a tank that will cause problems. > Keeping multiple females together is a relatively safe bet, since they are > not nearly as aggressive as the males are. In a large enough tank you can > keep multiple males as territorial fights could be nonexistent, and, at > best, you may see some show, but no real fighting at territorial edges. > > Steve, I beg to differ. I have kept up to 3 male bettas in the same tank > and > multiple females. It was a 10 gal. NOT heavily planted, just a couple of > sprigs of hornsworth. The trick was simple; turned one male loose in the > tank with the females, kept a second male in a floating trap for about a > week ( until they started ignoring each other), once I got to that point > the > "trapped" > male was released. Of course, this was done on a day I could just be there > and intervene if they attacked each other, but it never happened. After a > week of waiting I added another male to the trap and repeated the > procedure. > NEVER did I have agrgession between the males, in fact, when I wanted them > to "show off" I would put a mirror on the side of the tank and, believe it > or not, each male only attacked it's reflection (the invading betta) but > not > the tankmates. The females would also engage their reflection in battle. It > was a great conversation piece as I proved that you cannot generalize about > any species you think you know about. > Enid > > "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely > in > a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, > thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a > Ride!!!" > > **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, > plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014 > <http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> ) > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080906-0, 09/06/2008 > Tested on: 9/6/2008 10:00:47 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29748	From: Wendie	Date: 9/6/2008
Subject: Re: Am I asking for trouble?

I kept birth males and females together. However, once I removed a male from the group, I could never put him back. The fighting would begin. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 11:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Am I asking for trouble? I agree with \\Steve// though the fish may not always read the same literature or websites that we read. On a side not... what does "Yo Mama May Vacuum" have to do with fish keeping? :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 9:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Am I asking for trouble? You can likely get the same behavior if males are raised together from birth. On the whole, however, it is not wise to have more than one male betta in a tank, especially the smaller tanks. Also, the amount of aggression in betta, or other fish, will vary between fish and between strains. Fish that are less aggressive than the norm for the species can be bred to similar fish, and you will get a less aggressive next generation, following the rules of genetics. Some will be less aggressive than the parents, some more, and the rest equally aggressive as the parents. As always, in dealing with fish, YMMV. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... <mailto:Gwydryn%40aol.com> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 12:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Am I asking for trouble? In a message dated 9/5/2008 4:16:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> writes: It is more than one MALE betta in a tank that will cause problems. Keeping multiple females together is a relatively safe bet, since they are not nearly as aggressive as the males are. In a large enough tank you can keep multiple males as territorial fights could be nonexistent, and, at best, you may see some show, but no real fighting at territorial edges. Steve, I beg to differ. I have kept up to 3 male bettas in the same tank and multiple females. It was a 10 gal. NOT heavily planted, just a couple of sprigs of hornsworth. The trick was simple; turned one male loose in the tank with the females, kept a second male in a floating trap for about a week ( until they started ignoring each other), once I got to that point the "trapped" male was released. Of course, this was done on a day I could just be there and intervene if they attacked each other, but it never happened. After a week of waiting I added another male to the trap and repeated the procedure. NEVER did I have agrgession between the males, in fact, when I wanted them to "show off" I would put a mirror on the side of the tank and, believe it or not, each male only attacked it's reflection (the invading betta) but not the tankmates. The females would also engage their reflection in battle. It was a great conversation piece as I proved that you cannot generalize about any species you think you know about. Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014 <http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> ) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080906-0, 09/06/2008 Tested on: 9/6/2008 10:00:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29749	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size

Hi my name is Leah and I live in New Zealand. I've recently been given back a tank that I lent to my sister (she got a larger one) about 3 years ago and it reminded me how much I enjoy having fish. after reading a lot of your posts its clear that my tank is tiny in comparison to most of you but I do love my two gold fish and have already purchased a bigger tank for them 26 gallons (sorry we do things in liters here I think I converted that right) My first question is about filters. I've been trying to Google the topic but I just get more and more confused by all the different options. So far I have a under gravel filter and one that hangs on to the side of the tank and puts the water back in like a waterfall. (Called a aqua one) is this fine or do I need more? And is it possible to over filter a fish tank? Maybe thats a stupid question but the filter i have is to big for the small tank i have now and till i get my bigger tank im wondering if i should use it or wait till i have the new larger tank. (will only be about a week wait) Thanks very much sorry if this question has been come up before. Leah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29750	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size

I’m sure Lenny will chime in as he keeps goldfish, but I think you need even a larger tank than 26 gallons for two. If I were you, I would not use the under gravel filter on the new tank. Regarding the Aqua One, I’m used to hearing it referred to a “hang-on-back” or HOB filter, or also known as a power filter. That type is good. Regarding the amount of filtration, for the fish I keep, turnover of 10X the gallons of the tank per hour is recommended. So you would look up “gallons per hour” or GPH for your filter in the paperwork you received with it or on the internet (I use Drs. Foster & Smith website for this) and figure out your gph and whether it is sufficient. I have tanks with only 4X gph turnover that are healthy, but up to 10X would not be excessive. I would probably get another HOB or power filter (to make up the gph your need) and put it on your current tank now. In this way the beneficial bacteria on your current tank would have a chance to grow in your new filter media and then you could move the 2 filters to your new tank without having to cycle. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of geana_wolf Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size Hi my name is Leah and I live in New Zealand. I've recently been given back a tank that I lent to my sister (she got a larger one) about 3 years ago and it reminded me how much I enjoy having fish. after reading a lot of your posts its clear that my tank is tiny in comparison to most of you but I do love my two gold fish and have already purchased a bigger tank for them 26 gallons (sorry we do things in liters here I think I converted that right) My first question is about filters. I've been trying to Google the topic but I just get more and more confused by all the different options. So far I have a under gravel filter and one that hangs on to the side of the tank and puts the water back in like a waterfall. (Called a aqua one) is this fine or do I need more? And is it possible to over filter a fish tank? Maybe thats a stupid question but the filter i have is to big for the small tank i have now and till i get my bigger tank im wondering if i should use it or wait till i have the new larger tank. (will only be about a week wait) Thanks very much sorry if this question has been come up before. Leah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29751	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size

Leah, There are more efficient filters on the market, but whether a HOB (hang on back) filter is adequate depends on the size of the tank, its bioload and the size of the filter. The more fish you have up to the capacity of the tank, the larger or more efficient the filter must be. Your second question really depends on what is meant by "over filtering." By that, if you mean the turnover rate, then yes you can have too large of a filter -- depending on its turnover rate (judged by its pump capacity). Otherwise, no -- you can never have too much filtering capacity (provided the flow rate is matched to your tank size), in the size of your filter and its filtering area. The large the actual physical size of the filter, the more efficient its going to be. You could have a filter as large as your tank and, although it might be "overkill" depending on your bioload, it would still not be too large for your tank -- provided the flow rate matches your size tank. Generally speaking though, filters are manufactured in such capacities that the larger the filter is made, the greater the turn-over (flow) rate of it to match increasingly larger aquariums. You don't want to blow your fish out of the water <g>. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29752	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size

Leah, Yes, it is advised to allow at least 30 gallons per goldish, to give them adequate room to reach full size, alleviating the possibility of stunting them. Two 3" Goldfish, for instance, may look "lost" in a 55 gallon tank (absolute minimum), but when you consider they'll each reach at least 12" (straight tail Goldfish), it can easily be seen why they'll need this much room. Goldfish are also known to be messier than most other fish, also. As the alien said -- "take me to your liter" (lol). Your 26 gallon tank should come out to about 98.41 Liters. Preferably, you should have abot 227 Liters. Round-bodied Goldfish (Fantails, etc.) will get to between 8" and 10" and will still need this much room as their bodies have a larger girth than common or Comet Goldish. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29753	From: Wildyspage3girl@aol.com	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: as you love fish,a pic for you of our tank and fish, regards, wildy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29754	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Question on snails

I was checking aqua bid and came across "assasin snails", Anetome helena. They are advertised as the best thing to rid your tanks of ramshorn/pond snails. Anyone in this list has any experience with them? Are they worth the trouble or a you trding one snail problem for another? Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29755	From: pam andress	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Question on snails

I don't know anything about them, but you can go to that listing and ask the seller a question. You can also go to the aquaboards and ask there. http://www.aquaboards.com/index.php Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: Gwydryn@...: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 08:22:20 -0400Subject: [AquaticLife] Question on snails I was checking aqua bid and came across "assasin snails", Anetome helena. They are advertised as the best thing to rid your tanks of ramshorn/pond snails. Anyone in this list has any experience with them? Are they worth the trouble or a you trding one snail problem for another?Enid"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29756	From: littlesprite43086	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: old tank

I was going to wait until I got the high range tester to give you the numbers, but based on the one I have now it's at least 8.4. That's as high as the tester goes. Isn't it supposed to be at 7.0? Lenny, to answer your question, the enzyme I was using has this on the back...Biozyme uses hetrophic bacteria enzymes to reactivate aquariums damaged by medications, and helps to break down organic build-up in gravel beds. You asked about my fish too...3 gold pristella tetras, 1 pleco (getting large, but we're getting the 65 gal set up for him as I type this)and one 1 red tail shark. 29 gal tall tank. I think that's everything. I'm really not trying to make things hard on purpose guys, just hard to keep up sometimes with all the posts. Sorry. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Use a high range pH tester and find out your true reading. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of littlesprite43086 > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 7:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > Hello All, > I'm sorry if I confused you about the coral. I was asking about using > it as a decoration/hiding place for my red tail shark. I think the pH > reducer I was using is expired, so I bought new stuff. The nitrates > were still high after a 50% water change. I haven't been home to see > how the enzymes were working yet. We are on a well, and the pH is > just as high out of the faucet as it is in the tank. Good thing about > a well though...no chlorine!!! lol > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > I think that for nitrates through the roof what you do is water > changes. > > You can either do one big one, or a number of smaller ones. From > the > > discussion on this list high nitrates mean a high concentration of > more than > > just nitrates. In nature they would wash away downstream, but in > the > > aquarium, you have to do it! > > > > Also, is the ph higher than the water out of your tap? Over time > > evaporation leads to a concentration of minerals in the water; > another > > reason for water changes. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "littlesprite43086" <littlesprite43086@> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:54 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > > > After further investigating I found that the tank is a 65 gal > instead > > of 55 gal. Also, it held water!!! yay!! Dad and I hauled it up the > > stairs and back down. Over the next few weeks I will set it up. I'll > > send pics when it's up and running. Now, another question. I tested > > my tank water and the nitrates are through the roof. I but some > > enzyme stuff in there and it came down a wee bit. My pH is so > > high...the chart goes to 7.4 (dark blue), and its darker then that. > I > > put 3x the dosage to lower it, and nothing. Any ideas?? Do I have it > > backwards?? > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29757	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: old tank

NO... your tank is not supposed to be 7.0 pH. It's supposed to be whatever it ends up being with regular weekly 25% PWC's and no added chemicals. If you would read the Mongabay.com profiles on your fish, you will see that they come from a wide range of pH levels in nature and their natural waters pH goes up and down depending on the many variables that affect their natural waters. While a pH of 8.4 is on the high end, there are many, many fish that LOVE that high of a pH but most fish do prefer a pH range of 6.5 to the high 7's. If you want to lower your pH down into the mid 7's, you should quit using chemicals as your water is likely to be buffered up so high that the chemicals are just going to cause a roller-coaster effect on your pH as it crashes down when you add chemicals and then goes right back up due to the buffering ability of your water. You could add a piece of driftwood, which the pleco needs anyhow which will slowly lower the pH of the tank and you could also use Peat Moss inside of a stocking stuck into your filter to lower the pH naturally and you can control the rate by limiting the amount of Peat Moss and how long you leave it in the filter reservoir. What are your GH and KH test results? The Biozyme stuff does not work as advertized. The simple and safe way to remove the detritus from your gravel is by doing weekly gravel vacuuming so it doesn't build up too much. When vacuuming the gravel, you will also be removing 25% of the water so you accomplish the gravel vacuum and 25% PWC at the same time. To more easily keep track of replies, it would be better if you started a new thread for each subject rather than having them all running under the "old tank" subject. Did you ever do a baseline test on your well water to see where your numbers are at out of the ground? Then we would know if maybe there is something in your tank that is leaching into the tank raising the pH or maybe one or more of the chemicals that you've dumped in it might have raised the pH. We really need the baseline numbers for comparative purposes. See my blog for "Establishing Your Tap/Source Water Baseline" and also go to my "A to Z" page and take one or both of the FREE online fish keeping tutorials which will walk you through many of the questions you have and give you a better understanding of our answers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of littlesprite43086 Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank I was going to wait until I got the high range tester to give you the numbers, but based on the one I have now it's at least 8.4. That's as high as the tester goes. Isn't it supposed to be at 7.0? Lenny, to answer your question, the enzyme I was using has this on the back...Biozyme uses hetrophic bacteria enzymes to reactivate aquariums damaged by medications, and helps to break down organic build-up in gravel beds. You asked about my fish too...3 gold pristella tetras, 1 pleco (getting large, but we're getting the 65 gal set up for him as I type this)and one 1 red tail shark. 29 gal tall tank. I think that's everything. I'm really not trying to make things hard on purpose guys, just hard to keep up sometimes with all the posts. Sorry. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Use a high range pH tester and find out your true reading. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of littlesprite43086 > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 7:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > Hello All, > I'm sorry if I confused you about the coral. I was asking about using > it as a decoration/hiding place for my red tail shark. I think the pH > reducer I was using is expired, so I bought new stuff. The nitrates > were still high after a 50% water change. I haven't been home to see > how the enzymes were working yet. We are on a well, and the pH is just > as high out of the faucet as it is in the tank. Good thing about > a well though...no chlorine!!! lol > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > I think that for nitrates through the roof what you do is water > changes. > > You can either do one big one, or a number of smaller ones. From > the > > discussion on this list high nitrates mean a high concentration of > more than > > just nitrates. In nature they would wash away downstream, but in > the > > aquarium, you have to do it! > > > > Also, is the ph higher than the water out of your tap? Over time > > evaporation leads to a concentration of minerals in the water; > another > > reason for water changes. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "littlesprite43086" <littlesprite43086@> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:54 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:old tank > > > > > > After further investigating I found that the tank is a 65 gal > instead > > of 55 gal. Also, it held water!!! yay!! Dad and I hauled it up the > > stairs and back down. Over the next few weeks I will set it up. I'll > > send pics when it's up and running. Now, another question. I tested > > my tank water and the nitrates are through the roof. I but some > > enzyme stuff in there and it came down a wee bit. My pH is so > > high...the chart goes to 7.4 (dark blue), and its darker then that. > I > > put 3x the dosage to lower it, and nothing. Any ideas?? Do I have it > > backwards?? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 4:08:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29758	From: Bill Lane	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Some ID help please

Hi All, We are rolling in on 1 year with our main tank where we have Hatchets and Black Skirt Tetras. We have had pretty good success with that tank. It is very strange though, that the Tetras dash for a corner of the tank ALL the time as soon as the light is turned on. There are some plants throughout but this 1 corner is the favorite. They hover in formation lines like soldiers walking! But that is not the main reason for writing. We were not nearly as successful with the Betas in a smaller separate tank so we took a break for while. We had 2 that were in that tank 1 at a time that did not last long. We recently restarted that tank fresh. I never thought I would like a Gold Fish as I have always had "tropical fish" but I really like this one. Say hi to Gold Chunk. http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg That is accessible from my Other Interests page on my website. My wife and I have had some lively discussions as to if Gold Chunk is male or female. I have mostly gone with the assumption that long fins are associated with males. This has a triple tail. Is there any easy ways to tell for this fish? We have no intentions of breeding and Gold Chunk is a neutral name so those are an issue. I just would like to know if it is easily possible to find out. I am NOT taking it out of the take to look at some fish hinterlands! (:->) Please reply directly to bill@... with your info or best guess! Thanks tons. Thank You, Bill Lane Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1988 See my finished models at: http://www.lanestrains.com Winner of the 2007 Josh Seltzer NASG Website Award Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale! Custom Train Parts Design http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded (Trading is MUCH preferred) http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls ***Join the PRR T&HS*** The other members are not ALL like me! http://www.prrths.com http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society It's FREE to join! http://www.prslhs.com Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29759	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please

There's no easy way to sex goldfish until they start to reach maturity. Unfortunately, finnage has been morphed, by cross-breeding and in-breeding, to the point that it is not applicable for sexing goldfish and I'm not sure it ever has been a reliable way but possibly it was hundreds of years ago before all the human interference. The one sure way to tell is during mating season, adult males will develop what are called breeding stars or tubercles (which almost looks like Ich), but the white bumps are only on the leading edge of the pectoral fins and the gill covers. If you have a male and female in a tank/pond, the male will chase the female around bumping her anal area trying to induce her into egg laying. This is why it's not good to mix fancy goldfish and commons/comets in the same tank or pond as the faster swimming commons/comets will harass a fancy fish to death. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lane Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Cc: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please Hi All, We are rolling in on 1 year with our main tank where we have Hatchets and Black Skirt Tetras. We have had pretty good success with that tank. It is very strange though, that the Tetras dash for a corner of the tank ALL the time as soon as the light is turned on. There are some plants throughout but this 1 corner is the favorite. They hover in formation lines like soldiers walking! But that is not the main reason for writing. We were not nearly as successful with the Betas in a smaller separate tank so we took a break for while. We had 2 that were in that tank 1 at a time that did not last long. We recently restarted that tank fresh. I never thought I would like a Gold Fish as I have always had "tropical fish" but I really like this one. Say hi to Gold Chunk. http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg <http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg> That is accessible from my Other Interests page on my website. My wife and I have had some lively discussions as to if Gold Chunk is male or female. I have mostly gone with the assumption that long fins are associated with males. This has a triple tail. Is there any easy ways to tell for this fish? We have no intentions of breeding and Gold Chunk is a neutral name so those are an issue. I just would like to know if it is easily possible to find out. I am NOT taking it out of the take to look at some fish hinterlands! (:->) Please reply directly to bill@... <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> with your info or best guess! Thanks tons. Thank You, Bill Lane _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 4:42:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29760	From: Margie	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please

You say "during mating season". Is there a certain time to look for?  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/7/2008 4:42:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please There's no easy way to sex goldfish until they start to reach maturity. Unfortunately, finnage has been morphed, by cross-breeding and in-breeding, to the point that it is not applicable for sexing goldfish and I'm not sure it ever has been a reliable way but possibly it was hundreds of years ago before all the human interference. The one sure way to tell is during mating season, adult males will develop what are called breeding stars or tubercles (which almost looks like Ich), but the white bumps are only on the leading edge of the pectoral fins and the gill covers. If you have a male and female in a tank/pond, the male will chase the female around bumping her anal area trying to induce her into egg laying. This is why it's not good to mix fancy goldfish and commons/comets in the same tank or pond as the faster swimming commons/comets will harass a fancy fish to death. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lane Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Cc: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please Hi All, We are rolling in on 1 year with our main tank where we have Hatchets and Black Skirt Tetras. We have had pretty good success with that tank. It is very strange though, that the Tetras dash for a corner of the tank ALL the time as soon as the light is turned on. There are some plants throughout but this 1 corner is the favorite. They hover in formation lines like soldiers walking! But that is not the main reason for writing. We were not nearly as successful with the Betas in a smaller separate tank so we took a break for while. We had 2 that were in that tank 1 at a time that did not last long. We recently restarted that tank fresh. I never thought I would like a Gold Fish as I have always had "tropical fish" but I really like this one. Say hi to Gold Chunk. http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg <http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg> That is accessible from my Other Interests page on my website. My wife and I have had some lively discussions as to if Gold Chunk is male or female. I have mostly gone with the assumption that long fins are associated with males. This has a triple tail. Is there any easy ways to tell for this fish? We have no intentions of breeding and Gold Chunk is a neutral name so those are an issue. I just would like to know if it is easily possible to find out. I am NOT taking it out of the take to look at some fish hinterlands! (:->) Please reply directly to bill@... <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> with your info or best guess! Thanks tons. Thank You, Bill Lane _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 4:42:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please

Mating season for goldfish is usually early spring when the waters start to warm up in nature. For tank kept goldfish, you would have to first lower the tank temp to mimic winter and then when you do a PWC with warmer waters, they'll think "spring is in the air". Here's a good four-part article on goldfish, which includes some breeding info. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Wilkinson_1Goldfish.html These pages have some pics of the breeding tubercles and more info on sexing and breeding. http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/sexing-fs.htm http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/breeding-fs.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please You say "during mating season". Is there a certain time to look for?  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/7/2008 4:42:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please There's no easy way to sex goldfish until they start to reach maturity. Unfortunately, finnage has been morphed, by cross-breeding and in-breeding, to the point that it is not applicable for sexing goldfish and I'm not sure it ever has been a reliable way but possibly it was hundreds of years ago before all the human interference. The one sure way to tell is during mating season, adult males will develop what are called breeding stars or tubercles (which almost looks like Ich), but the white bumps are only on the leading edge of the pectoral fins and the gill covers. If you have a male and female in a tank/pond, the male will chase the female around bumping her anal area trying to induce her into egg laying. This is why it's not good to mix fancy goldfish and commons/comets in the same tank or pond as the faster swimming commons/comets will harass a fancy fish to death. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Lane Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Cc: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tropicalfishclub%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please Hi All, We are rolling in on 1 year with our main tank where we have Hatchets and Black Skirt Tetras. We have had pretty good success with that tank. It is very strange though, that the Tetras dash for a corner of the tank ALL the time as soon as the light is turned on. There are some plants throughout but this 1 corner is the favorite. They hover in formation lines like soldiers walking! But that is not the main reason for writing. We were not nearly as successful with the Betas in a smaller separate tank so we took a break for while. We had 2 that were in that tank 1 at a time that did not last long. We recently restarted that tank fresh. I never thought I would like a Gold Fish as I have always had "tropical fish" but I really like this one. Say hi to Gold Chunk. http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg <http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg> <http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg <http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg <http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg> > > That is accessible from my Other Interests page on my website. My wife and I have had some lively discussions as to if Gold Chunk is male or female. I have mostly gone with the assumption that long fins are associated with males. This has a triple tail. Is there any easy ways to tell for this fish? We have no intentions of breeding and Gold Chunk is a neutral name so those are an issue. I just would like to know if it is easily possible to find out. I am NOT taking it out of the take to look at some fish hinterlands! (:->) Please reply directly to bill@... <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> with your info or best guess! Thanks tons. Thank You, Bill Lane _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 4:42:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 4:48:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 5:02:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29762	From: Tony Lucas	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size

Leah good to see another New Zealander here. As for the question about filtration, no question is ever a silly question , that's how we learn, you can never have enough filtration. The only thing you really have to watch is the flow rate, with a filter with a very high flow rate your fish or end up looking like they are in a washing machine. Not very comfortable for the fish I can assure you. Regards Tony Lucas _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of geana_wolf Sent: Monday, 8 September 2008 12:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size Hi my name is Leah and I live in New Zealand. I've recently been given back a tank that I lent to my sister (she got a larger one) about 3 years ago and it reminded me how much I enjoy having fish. after reading a lot of your posts its clear that my tank is tiny in comparison to most of you but I do love my two gold fish and have already purchased a bigger tank for them 26 gallons (sorry we do things in liters here I think I converted that right) My first question is about filters. I've been trying to Google the topic but I just get more and more confused by all the different options. So far I have a under gravel filter and one that hangs on to the side of the tank and puts the water back in like a waterfall. (Called a aqua one) is this fine or do I need more? And is it possible to over filter a fish tank? Maybe thats a stupid question but the filter i have is to big for the small tank i have now and till i get my bigger tank im wondering if i should use it or wait till i have the new larger tank. (will only be about a week wait) Thanks very much sorry if this question has been come up before. Leah No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1657 - Release Date: 9/6/2008 8:07 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29763	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please

Hahaha! I would have been interested in hearing the results of your observations of old Chunk's nether territories! Jackie Jackie Huey Dreamsteeds@... http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey --- On Sun, 9/7/08, Bill Lane <bill@...> wrote: > From: Bill Lane <bill@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Cc: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 2:10 PM > Hi All, > > We are rolling in on 1 year with our main tank where we > have Hatchets and > Black Skirt Tetras. We have had pretty good success with > that tank. It is > very strange though, that the Tetras dash for a corner of > the tank ALL the > time as soon as the light is turned on. There are some > plants throughout but > this 1 corner is the favorite. They hover in formation > lines like soldiers > walking! > > But that is not the main reason for writing. We were not > nearly as > successful with the Betas in a smaller separate tank so we > took a break for > while. We had 2 that were in that tank 1 at a time that did > not last long. > We recently restarted that tank fresh. I never thought I > would like a Gold > Fish as I have always had "tropical fish" but I > really like this one. Say hi > to Gold Chunk. > http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg > That is > accessible from my Other Interests page on my website. > > My wife and I have had some lively discussions as to if > Gold Chunk is male > or female. I have mostly gone with the assumption that long > fins are > associated with males. This has a triple tail. Is there any > easy ways to > tell for this fish? We have no intentions of breeding and > Gold Chunk is a > neutral name so those are an issue. I just would like to > know if it is > easily possible to find out. I am NOT taking it out of the > take to look at > some fish hinterlands! (:->) > > Please reply directly to bill@... with your > info or best guess! > Thanks tons. > > Thank You, > Bill Lane > > Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale > since 1988 > > See my finished models at: > http://www.lanestrains.com > Winner of the 2007 Josh Seltzer NASG Website Award > Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale! > > Custom Train Parts Design > http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm > > PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded > (Trading is MUCH preferred) > http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls > > ***Join the PRR T&HS*** > The other members are not ALL like me! > http://www.prrths.com > http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf > > Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical > Society > It's FREE to join! http://www.prslhs.com > Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29764	From: pam andress	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please

Personally I feel sorry for the poor fish having such a name. Who wants to be called chunk gold or otherwise? I just got some crayfish not too long ago and was told to pick them up and turn them over to sex. I have done this, but who wants to get near those pinchers!! lol At least a goldfish can't hang on. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: dreamsteeds@...: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:11:18 -0700Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please Hahaha! I would have been interested in hearing the results of your observations of old Chunk's nether territories! JackieJackie HueyDreamsteeds@... http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey--- On Sun, 9/7/08, Bill Lane <bill@...> wrote:> From: Bill Lane <bill@...>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Cc: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 2:10 PM> Hi All,> > We are rolling in on 1 year with our main tank where we> have Hatchets and> Black Skirt Tetras. We have had pretty good success with> that tank. It is> very strange though, that the Tetras dash for a corner of> the tank ALL the> time as soon as the light is turned on. There are some> plants throughout but> this 1 corner is the favorite. They hover in formation> lines like soldiers> walking!> > But that is not the main reason for writing. We were not> nearly as> successful with the Betas in a smaller separate tank so we> took a break for> while. We had 2 that were in that tank 1 at a time that did> not last long.> We recently restarted that tank fresh. I never thought I> would like a Gold> Fish as I have always had "tropical fish" but I> really like this one. Say hi> to Gold Chunk.> http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg> That is> accessible from my Other Interests page on my website.> > My wife and I have had some lively discussions as to if> Gold Chunk is male> or female. I have mostly gone with the assumption that long> fins are> associated with males. This has a triple tail. Is there any> easy ways to> tell for this fish? We have no intentions of breeding and> Gold Chunk is a> neutral name so those are an issue. I just would like to> know if it is> easily possible to find out. I am NOT taking it out of the> take to look at> some fish hinterlands! (:->)> > Please reply directly to bill@... with your> info or best guess!> Thanks tons.> > Thank You,> Bill Lane> > Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale> since 1988> > See my finished models at:> http://www.lanestrains.com> Winner of the 2007 Josh Seltzer NASG Website Award> Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!> > Custom Train Parts Design> http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm> > PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded> (Trading is MUCH preferred)> http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls > > ***Join the PRR T&HS***> The other members are not ALL like me!> http://www.prrths.com> http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf> > Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical> Society> It's FREE to join! http://www.prslhs.com > Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL> > > > > ------------------------------------> > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when> replying, Thank You.> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e.> "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸.> , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo!> Groups Links> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29765	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: as you love fish,a pic for you of our tank and fish, regards, wi

As you have probably discovered by now, your picture did not come through. This list does not allow graphic formats to be presented in messages. However, we do have a files section where you can upload your photos and alert the list to its presence. Alternatively, you can post such images to another site on the web, and send us a message about its availability there. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wildyspage3girl@... Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 6:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] as you love fish,a pic for you of our tank and fish, regards, wildy n angel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29766	From: Margie	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please

Oh, good then I know what NOT to do. NO WARM WATERS HERE!!!! We don't want "spring is in the air"....  Thanks again. Gees, I am getting so smart. Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/7/2008 5:02:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please Mating season for goldfish is usually early spring when the waters start to warm up in nature. For tank kept goldfish, you would have to first lower the tank temp to mimic winter and then when you do a PWC with warmer waters, they'll think "spring is in the air". Here's a good four-part article on goldfish, which includes some breeding info. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Wilkinson_1Goldfish.html These pages have some pics of the breeding tubercles and more info on sexing and breeding. http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/sexing-fs.htm http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/breeding-fs.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please You say "during mating season". Is there a certain time to look for?  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/7/2008 4:42:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please There's no easy way to sex goldfish until they start to reach maturity. Unfortunately, finnage has been morphed, by cross-breeding and in-breeding, to the point that it is not applicable for sexing goldfish and I'm not sure it ever has been a reliable way but possibly it was hundreds of years ago before all the human interference. The one sure way to tell is during mating season, adult males will develop what are called breeding stars or tubercles (which almost looks like Ich), but the white bumps are only on the leading edge of the pectoral fins and the gill covers. If you have a male and female in a tank/pond, the male will chase the female around bumping her anal area trying to induce her into egg laying. This is why it's not good to mix fancy goldfish and commons/comets in the same tank or pond as the faster swimming commons/comets will harass a fancy fish to death. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Lane Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Cc: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tropicalfishclub%40yahoogroups com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please Hi All, We are rolling in on 1 year with our main tank where we have Hatchets and Black Skirt Tetras. We have had pretty good success with that tank. It is very strange though, that the Tetras dash for a corner of the tank ALL the time as soon as the light is turned on. There are some plants throughout but this 1 corner is the favorite. They hover in formation lines like soldiers walking! But that is not the main reason for writing. We were not nearly as successful with the Betas in a smaller separate tank so we took a break for while. We had 2 that were in that tank 1 at a time that did not last long. We recently restarted that tank fresh. I never thought I would like a Gold Fish as I have always had "tropical fish" but I really like this one. Say hi to Gold Chunk. http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg <http://www lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg> <http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg <http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg <http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg> > > That is accessible from my Other Interests page on my website. My wife and I have had some lively discussions as to if Gold Chunk is male or female. I have mostly gone with the assumption that long fins are associated with males. This has a triple tail. Is there any easy ways to tell for this fish? We have no intentions of breeding and Gold Chunk is a neutral name so those are an issue. I just would like to know if it is easily possible to find out. I am NOT taking it out of the take to look at some fish hinterlands! (:->) Please reply directly to bill@... <mailto:bill%40lanestrains com> <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> with your info or best guess! Thanks tons. Thank You, Bill Lane _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 4:42:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 4:48:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 5:02:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29767	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please

Like most pets, I don't think they really care what their name is as long as they get food when you call them... here Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.... and my dog comes running, hoping for a snack! That's not really his name but he'll come running to anything said in the right tone. LOL Of course, that may not work for crawfish/crayfish.... especially when they see me setting up the crawfish boiler! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 5:22 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please Personally I feel sorry for the poor fish having such a name. Who wants to be called chunk gold or otherwise? I just got some crayfish not too long ago and was told to pick them up and turn them over to sex. I have done this, but who wants to get near those pinchers!! lol At least a goldfish can't hang on. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : dreamsteeds@... <mailto:dreamsteeds%40sbcglobal.netDate> : Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:11:18 -0700Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please Hahaha! I would have been interested in hearing the results of your observations of old Chunk's nether territories! JackieJackie HueyDreamsteeds@... <mailto:HueyDreamsteeds%40sbcglobal.net> http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey--- <http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey---> On Sun, 9/7/08, Bill Lane <bill@... <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> > wrote:> From: Bill Lane <bill@... <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Cc: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tropicalfishclub%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 2:10 PM> Hi All,> > We are rolling in on 1 year with our main tank where we> have Hatchets and> Black Skirt Tetras. We have had pretty good success with> that tank. It is> very strange though, that the Tetras dash for a corner of> the tank ALL the> time as soon as the light is turned on. There are some> plants throughout but> this 1 corner is the favorite. They hover in formation> lines like soldiers> walking!> > But that is not the main reason for writing. We were not> nearly as> successful with the Betas in a smaller separate tank so we> took a break for> while. We had 2 that were in that tank 1 at a time that did> not last long.> We recently restarted that tank fresh. I never thought I> would like a Gold> Fish as I have always had "tropical fish" but I> really like this one. Say hi> to Gold Chunk.> http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg <http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg> > That is> accessible from my Other Interests page on my website.> > My wife and I have had some lively discussions as to if> Gold Chunk is male> or female. I have mostly gone with the assumption that long> fins are> associated with males. This has a triple tail. Is there any> easy ways to> tell for this fish? We have no intentions of breeding and> Gold Chunk is a> neutral name so those are an issue. I just would like to> know if it is> easily possible to find out. I am NOT taking it out of the> take to look at> some fish hinterlands! (:->)> > Please reply directly to bill@... <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> with your> info or best guess!> Thanks tons.> > Thank You,> Bill Lane> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 5:59:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29768	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size

Hi thanks everyone :) I've adjusted the flow rate on my filter to the lowest setting and I seams to be doing very well the fish are not bothered by it at all. Ok Second question ^^ As I already have gold fish and I simply don't have the room for a bigger tank :( is it ok to keep them in a 26 gallon tank until they get too big for it and then I could give them to a friend of mine who has a large pond (will be hard to give them up but its better for them right)? Or will being in a too small tank from when there small hurt there growth? Thanks very much Leah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29769	From: pam andress	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please

Mine are blue, so you can't eat them. Go find your own. lol I have a cousin that married a guy that had a dog named damn it. I thought it was so funny, but how many times do you start calling one and say that? I know I do when I can't find them. Now get some food out and they start running to you. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 17:59:04 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please Like most pets, I don't think they really care what their name is as long asthey get food when you call them... here Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.... and mydog comes running, hoping for a snack! That's not really his name but he'llcome running to anything said in the right tone. LOL Of course, that may not work for crawfish/crayfish.... especially when theysee me setting up the crawfish boiler! ;-)Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 5:22 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Some ID help pleasePersonally I feel sorry for the poor fish having such a name. Who wants tobe called chunk gold or otherwise?I just got some crayfish not too long ago and was told to pick them up andturn them over to sex. I have done this, but who wants to get near thosepinchers!! lol At least a goldfish can't hang on.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : dreamsteeds@...<mailto:dreamsteeds%40sbcglobal.netDate> : Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:11:18-0700Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Some ID help pleaseHahaha! I would have been interested in hearing the results of yourobservations of old Chunk's nether territories! JackieJackieHueyDreamsteeds@... <mailto:HueyDreamsteeds%40sbcglobal.net>http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey---<http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey---> On Sun, 9/7/08, BillLane <bill@... <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> > wrote:> From:Bill Lane <bill@... <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> >> Subject:[AquaticLife] Some ID help please> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Cc:tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tropicalfishclub%40yahoogroups.com>> Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 2:10 PM> Hi All,> > We are rolling in on1 year with our main tank where we> have Hatchets and> Black Skirt Tetras.We have had pretty good success with> that tank. It is> very strange though,that the Tetras dash for a corner of> the tank ALL the> time as soon as thelight is turned on. There are some> plants throughout but> this 1 corner isthe favorite. They hover in formation> lines like soldiers> walking!> > Butthat is not the main reason for writing. We were not> nearly as> successfulwith the Betas in a smaller separate tank so we> took a break for> while. Wehad 2 that were in that tank 1 at a time that did> not last long.> Werecently restarted that tank fresh. I never thought I> would like a Gold>Fish as I have always had "tropical fish" but I> really like this one. Sayhi> to Gold Chunk.>http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg<http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg> > Thatis> accessible from my Other Interests page on my website.> > My wife and Ihave had some lively discussions as to if> Gold Chunk is male> or female. Ihave mostly gone with the assumption that long> fins are> associated withmales. This has a triple tail. Is there any> easy ways to> tell for thisfish? We have no intentions of breeding and> Gold Chunk is a> neutral nameso those are an issue. I just would like to> know if it is> easily possibleto find out. I am NOT taking it out of the> take to look at> some fishhinterlands! (:->)> > Please reply directly to bill@...<mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> with your> info or best guess!> Thankstons.> > Thank You,> Bill Lane> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008Tested on: 9/7/2008 5:59:04 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29770	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size

Hi Leah, Keeping them in an undersized tank will cause stunting but there are certain things you can do to help offset the stunting problem. Fish release various hormones into the water and these hormones are what causes many fish to react... whether it be a predator, mating, etc... and a buildup of these hormones also cause a fish to start stunting itself so it will not outgrow it's environment. At one time, this was thought to be a good thing but it also causes many stress related health issues and leads to a much shorter lifespan for the fish. How many goldfish do you have in the 26G and what are the dimensions of the tank? While I wouldn't normally recommend it, if you only have a single fancy goldfish and the tank is at least 30" long, then you could probably have a better chance of long-term success as long as you do more frequent 25% PWC's (partial water changes). You would probably have to do twice weekly PWC's and alternate filter maintenance on your two filter systems so that one is always fully cycled. I have a blog article about doing proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning". Using an advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen will also help remove the DOC's and other nasties from the water between PWC's. If you have a long-bodied goldfish, then it would need to be in a really BIG tank or preferably a pond. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of geana_wolf Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 5:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size Hi thanks everyone :) I've adjusted the flow rate on my filter to the lowest setting and I seams to be doing very well the fish are not bothered by it at all. Ok Second question ^^ As I already have gold fish and I simply don't have the room for a bigger tank :( is it ok to keep them in a 26 gallon tank until they get too big for it and then I could give them to a friend of mine who has a large pond (will be hard to give them up but its better for them right)? Or will being in a too small tank from when there small hurt there growth? Thanks very much Leah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 6:27:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29771	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help: my fish stop growing.

Hi Helen, I missed your post originally but I was glancing at the photos section of the group and saw your photos. It's hard to tell from the pictures due to surface waves but I would suspect your goldfish has dropsy. Looking at it from directly above it, do the scales stick out a little like a pine cone? Let us know. There are veterinarian administered shots that can be given and there are some DIY treatments that have had limited success but it's better when catching it early. Your fish looks like it's pretty far gone with Dropsy. It could still live for quite a long time but they usually succumb to one of the causative factors eventually. Dropsy is thought to be caused by various internal bacterial or parasitic issues that affect the kidneys and other organs causing the fish to retain fluids. The swim bladder issue you are seeing could be caused by the fluids putting pressure on the swim bladder organ. If it does have the distinct pine-coning effect of the scales, then I could direct you to some reliable websites with more info on Dropsy. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 10:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help: my fish stop growing. my comet was getting a bit of a belly in the spring, but it hasn't stopped, at first I thought it was carrying eggs, but it's HUGE now, it's appetite is fine, and swims fine but starts to float when it stops, is there anyone out there that might know what it is,,, including pictures.. under Helyun _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 6:45:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29772	From: Bill Lane	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Gold Chunk II

All, If you lived in my area (South Jersey) there was a story a few weeks ago about a stray cat that was found loose that weighed 44 pounds. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,400041,00.html As you can see if became quite the news story. The animal rights people got their short hairs all up in a bunch over it - clamoring over cruelty to the animal for letting it get so large. As it turned out the cat was stray because the original owner was just days away from loosing her house so she opened the door and let it out knowing someone would find it and adopt it. The cat was originally named Princess Chunk by animal welfare until they found out it was male so it became Prince Chunk. The fact that 500+ people applied to adopt it when hundreds of other equally needy cats in cages on both sides of it still need adopting is beyond me. Some people are whackadoos. This all happened at about the same time as me getting my new fish - hence the name Gold Chunk. Would y'all have preferred Goldy? (:<) The other parallels are my new fish is chunky as well, and I am trying to determine its sex. Hopefully there is sufficient fish content in this post all the while explaining the Gold Chunk name origin. I think it is a most original name. It will not come if I called it, but what fish would? Thank You, Bill Lane Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1988 See my finished models at: http://www.lanestrains.com Winner of the 2007 Josh Seltzer NASG Website Award Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale! Custom Train Parts Design http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded (Trading is MUCH preferred) http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls ***Join the PRR T&HS*** The other members are not ALL like me! http://www.prrths.com http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society It's FREE to join! http://www.prslhs.com Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29773	From: pam andress	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Gold Chunk II

Thats a great story and a happy ending for the kitty. Too bad no one wanted to adopt any of the other cats at the shelter. I like the way you chose the name for your fish. You will alway remember that cat because of it. So if you get any more fish that are chunky, are they going to have like names? lol Pam All,If you lived in my area (South Jersey) there was a story a few weeks agoabout a stray cat that was found loose that weighed 44 pounds.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,400041,00.html As you can see if becamequite the news story.The animal rights people got their short hairs all up in a bunch over it -clamoring over cruelty to the animal for letting it get so large. As itturned out the cat was stray because the original owner was just days awayfrom loosing her house so she opened the door and let it out knowing someonewould find it and adopt it. The cat was originally named Princess Chunk byanimal welfare until they found out it was male so it became Prince Chunk.The fact that 500+ people applied to adopt it when hundreds of other equallyneedy cats in cages on both sides of it still need adopting is beyond me.Some people are whackadoos.This all happened at about the same time as me getting my new fish - hencethe name Gold Chunk. Would y'all have preferred Goldy? (:<) The otherparallels are my new fish is chunky as well, and I am trying to determineits sex. Hopefully there is sufficient fish content in this post all thewhile explaining the Gold Chunk name origin. I think it is a most originalname. It will not come if I called it, but what fish would?Thank You,Bill Lane._,_.___ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29774	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Gold Chunk II

Since all fancy goldfish are considered chunky or round-bodied, you have plenty of name variations. Black Chunk, Calico Chunk, Silver Chunk, Orange Chunk... all part of the Chunk Family! Then if you get some pearlscale goldfish, you can start the Chunkier Family! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 7:07 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gold Chunk II Thats a great story and a happy ending for the kitty. Too bad no one wanted to adopt any of the other cats at the shelter. I like the way you chose the name for your fish. You will alway remember that cat because of it. So if you get any more fish that are chunky, are they going to have like names? lol Pam All,If you lived in my area (South Jersey) there was a story a few weeks agoabout a stray cat that was found loose that weighed 44 pounds.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,400041,00.html <pounds.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,400041,00.html> As you can see if becamequite the news story.The animal rights people got their short hairs all up in a bunch over it -clamoring over cruelty to the animal for letting it get so large. As itturned out the cat was stray because the original owner was just days awayfrom loosing her house so she opened the door and let it out knowing someonewould find it and adopt it. The cat was originally named Princess Chunk byanimal welfare until they found out it was male so it became Prince Chunk.The fact that 500+ people applied to adopt it when hundreds of other equallyneedy cats in cages on both sides of it still need adopting is beyond me.Some people are whackadoos.This all happened at about the same time as me getting my new fish - hencethe name Gold Chunk. Would y'all have preferred Goldy? (:<) The otherparallels are my new fish is chunky as well, and I am trying to determineits sex. Hopefully there is sufficient fish content in this post all thewhile explaining the Gold Chunk name origin. I think it is a most originalname. It will not come if I called it, but what fish would?Thank You,Bill Lane._,_.___ . _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 7:24:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29775	From: Chris	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Water PH

so lets say that my tap has a ph of 7.9 and I want fish that need 6.5. How do I change the ph?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29776	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water PH

Give us more numbers. What are your GH and KH also? What kind of fish are you planning that require a pH of 6.5? There are a few ways it can be done that I'll touch on here but I'm sure there are many other ways as well... not requiring chemical additives which should be avoided IMO. It could be as simple as diluting your tap water with distilled or RO water to lower the GH and KH and let the natural ecology of the tank lower the pH. A tank's water pH will ALWAYS go down as a result of the natural ecology of the tank using up the GH and KH, unless there is something leaching into the water that would keep the GH and/or KH elevated. Adding a piece of driftwood will further help or you may need to filter your water through peat moss. Both driftwood and peat moss rely on filtration but also the release of tannins as a way of lowering the pH. You can filter the brownish color of the tannins out of the water with carbon or other chemical filtration media. Anything that is done should be done slowly so the fish can acclimate to the lowering pH. You don't want to lower your pH more than 0.2 at any one time or more than 0.4 per day for best results in preventing pH shock. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 7:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water PH so lets say that my tap has a ph of 7.9 and I want fish that need 6.5. How do I change the ph? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 8:15:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29777	From: Jackie Huey	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Some ID help please

That's a universal creature response, isn't it? Enthusiasm at being fed, that is, not at being eaten. I find myself sneaking through the dining room so the fish in the front room won't see me, set up a cheering section and then be disappointed when foodies are not forthcoming. Jackie Huey Dreamsteeds@... http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey --- On Sun, 9/7/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 3:59 PM > Like most pets, I don't think they really care what > their name is as long as > they get food when you call them... here Stupid, Stupid, > Stupid.... and my > dog comes running, hoping for a snack! That's not > really his name but he'll > come running to anything said in the right tone. LOL > > Of course, that may not work for crawfish/crayfish.... > especially when they > see me setting up the crawfish boiler! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 5:22 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please > > > Personally I feel sorry for the poor fish having such a > name. Who wants to > be called chunk gold or otherwise? > > I just got some crayfish not too long ago and was told to > pick them up and > turn them over to sex. I have done this, but who wants to > get near those > pinchers!! lol At least a goldfish can't hang on. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : > dreamsteeds@... > <mailto:dreamsteeds%40sbcglobal.netDate> : Sun, 7 Sep > 2008 15:11:18 > -0700Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Some ID help please > > Hahaha! I would have been interested in hearing the results > of your > observations of old Chunk's nether territories! > JackieJackie > HueyDreamsteeds@... > <mailto:HueyDreamsteeds%40sbcglobal.net> > http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey--- > <http://community.webshots.com/user/jackiehuey---> > On Sun, 9/7/08, Bill > Lane <bill@... > <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> > wrote:> From: > Bill Lane <bill@... > <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> >> Subject: > [AquaticLife] Some ID help please> To: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Cc: > tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:tropicalfishclub%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 2:10 PM> Hi > All,> > We are rolling in on > 1 year with our main tank where we> have Hatchets > and> Black Skirt Tetras. > We have had pretty good success with> that tank. It > is> very strange though, > that the Tetras dash for a corner of> the tank ALL > the> time as soon as the > light is turned on. There are some> plants throughout > but> this 1 corner is > the favorite. They hover in formation> lines like > soldiers> walking!> > But > that is not the main reason for writing. We were not> > nearly as> successful > with the Betas in a smaller separate tank so we> took a > break for> while. We > had 2 that were in that tank 1 at a time that did> not > last long.> We > recently restarted that tank fresh. I never thought I> > would like a Gold> > Fish as I have always had "tropical fish" but > I> really like this one. Say > hi> to Gold Chunk.> > http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg > <http://www.lanestrains.com/Other_Interests_Photos/Gold_Chunk.jpg> > > That > is> accessible from my Other Interests page on my > website.> > My wife and I > have had some lively discussions as to if> Gold Chunk is > male> or female. I > have mostly gone with the assumption that long> fins > are> associated with > males. This has a triple tail. Is there any> easy ways > to> tell for this > fish? We have no intentions of breeding and> Gold Chunk > is a> neutral name > so those are an issue. I just would like to> know if it > is> easily possible > to find out. I am NOT taking it out of the> take to look > at> some fish > hinterlands! (:->)> > Please reply directly to > bill@... > <mailto:bill%40lanestrains.com> with your> info > or best guess!> Thanks > tons.> > Thank You,> Bill Lane> > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound > message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 > Tested on: 9/7/2008 5:59:04 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29778	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water PH

Consider fish that like the pH of 7.9 instead, LOL. Makes everything much more enjoyable for the fish and for you! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 8:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water PH so lets say that my tap has a ph of 7.9 and I want fish that need 6.5. How do I change the ph? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29779	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Hi im new and have some questions on filters/tank size

Hi :) The Fish tank is 30" X 15" x 15" I have two 2" gold fish (fantails I think there called) Thanks for all the info seams like I will have to seriously consider something other than gold fish. Ok third question ^^ For a newbie to Fish is it a good idea to try Tropical fish? We don't have a lot of choice in regards to cold water fish were I am. Thanks again Leah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29780	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Water PH

You do not change the pH. Either you change the fish you are considering to match the pH you naturally have, or you start with distilled water and add the needed components to make it a certain pH. I used to have some recipes to do this, but I think they have been lost over the last 30 years and changes in computers and residences as I have not seen them for a long time. I, personally, never had any reason to use the recipes, so they were never a high priority. They were developed by a water chemist, so I suppose they would work. I would think there are the same, or similar recipes available somewhere on the web. Why is it that one should not attempt to lower the pH of their water? Water contains what we call buffers. The amount of these buffers in the water is what determines the water's pH. You can get an idea of the buffering capacity of the water by measuring the alkalinity of the water (not to be confused with the term normally used by aquarists to indicate the baseness of pH or a high pH). You can do this by using a kit that measures KH, or the carbonate hardness of the water. When we want to lower the pH of the water, we actually are reducing the alkalinity of the water. What will happen is that we will "break the buffer" at some point, which basically means that we have removed enough of the buffer to let the pH fall, and it will be a free fall until it reaches a point below what you would want and make the pH suitable only for certain fish such as discus and certain rams--4.5-5.0. The drop will be rapid, and any current residents in the water will certainly suffer from the sudden drop. If you do manage to be successful to get the pH that you want, this will then mean that you need to treat all your water to maintain the pH you wish, crossing your fingers that you never cross the line between an acceptable pH and a disastrous drop in pH. Unless you build your own water from distilled water by adding the proper compounds to it in the proper amounts, again a lot of work, I'd suggest staying with fish that will do well in the pH that you have. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 8:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water PH so lets say that my tap has a ph of 7.9 and I want fish that need 6.5. How do I change the ph?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29781	From: clubsprint	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Grouply

Why is nhn62728@... from this group sending me invites to join grouply (and give them my yahoo id and password)?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29782	From: Mike	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

They may have gleaned some email addresses while they were here. They are gone and banned now. -Mike --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "clubsprint" <clubsprint@...> wrote: > > Why is nhn62728@... from this group sending me invites to join > grouply (and give them my yahoo id and password)? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29783	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

Supposed social-networking sites like Grouply, Question_It, Fanbox and many others are some of the newest scams being perpetuated on naive internet users around the world. Here is an article that I came across back in January when one of my customers "sent me" an invitation to Question_It. I Googled it before clicking on the link and promptly notified my customer that her computer had been compromised. http://blogs.technet.com/steriley/archive/2008/01/07/faxbox-the-latest-in-pa ssword-scams.aspx People join these supposed social-networking sites and download some software that then sends out invitations to every email address that can be data-mined from the persons computer. The person, themselves, are not doing the actual sending and may not even know their computers have been compromised... unless they read this. There is also a chance that this malware may be involved in phishing since it does ask for peoples passwords to their email websites and who knows what it will do once it has access if the people have included any kind of personal information in any of their emails. If you are not up to date with computer security, you should secure your computer. There are a full barrage of legitimate programs (Antivirus, AntiSpyware, Firewalls, etc.) that can be downloaded, installed and kept running free of charge for home user. If you want to upgrade your computer security abilities, contact me off-list and I'll send you to a couple of sites that will walk you through securing your computer. Just keep reporting any emails you get from these new-fangled spam/phishing sites as spam and eventually all email from those sites will go to peoples spam folders. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of clubsprint Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Grouply Why is nhn62728@... <mailto:nhn62728%40yahoo.com> from this group sending me invites to join grouply (and give them my yahoo id and password)? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 10:15:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29784	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

Mike, As you'll see in my post from a few moments ago, the person may not even know their computer is doing this. Maybe, before banning people, we could check to see if they've ever been active in the group or maybe they are just interested lurkers. Hopefully, they'll see my earlier reply and take action to clean up their computers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply They may have gleaned some email addresses while they were here. They are gone and banned now. -Mike --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "clubsprint" <clubsprint@...> wrote: > > Why is nhn62728@... from this group sending me invites to join grouply > (and give them my yahoo id and password)? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 10:19:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29785	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

Grouply is currently the biggest offender, but I've seen people ahve the same problem with the other social networking sites- I think it was Facebook, not sure. Tehre are two similar networking sites with similar names - the other is myspace.com Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 10:15 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Grouply Supposed social-networking sites like Grouply, Question_It, Fanbox and many others are some of the newest scams being perpetuated on naive internet users around the world. People join these supposed social-networking sites and download some software that then sends out invitations to every email address that can be data-mined from the persons computer. The person, themselves, are not doing the actual sending and may not even know their computers have been compromised... unless they read this. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29786	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

i love myspace.. i have 3 On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 12:36 AM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Grouply is currently the biggest offender, but I've seen people ahve the > > same problem with the other social networking sites- I think it was > Facebook, not sure. Tehre are two similar networking sites with similar > names - the other is myspace.com > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 10:15 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Grouply > > Supposed social-networking sites like Grouply, Question_It, Fanbox and many > others are some of the newest scams being perpetuated on naive internet > users around the world. > > People join these supposed social-networking sites and download some > software that then sends out invitations to every email address that can be > data-mined from the persons computer. The person, themselves, are not doing > the actual sending and may not even know their computers have been > compromised... unless they read this. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29787	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

Facebook and Myspace are nothing like this new crop of phishing sites like I mentioned earlier. They are both legitimate corporate entities unlike those other sites that are illegitimate from the top down. I've never gotten a malicious mass email from Facebook or MySpace. I've gotten "Friend" requests from individual people that might have been nigerian scammers but not where either of those sites tried to download some kind of malicious software onto their members computers that would then surreptitiously send out emails to every email address they can find on that computer trying to phish for passwords from people. There are some members that might load some malicious code onto their MySpace pages but that is something that MySpace is NOT doing as a corporation but they should do a better job of scanning their members webpages for malicious code as it becomes known to them. I have seen other spam emails in my various email accounts from sites that are trying to sound similar to Facebook and MySpace but those are usually pretty obvious... although I'm sure some people might still fall for them. The best thing is for people to at least learn the basics of computer security and start locking down their computers so the rest of us don't have to take extraordinary measures to protect ourselves. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 11:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Grouply Grouply is currently the biggest offender, but I've seen people ahve the same problem with the other social networking sites- I think it was Facebook, not sure. Tehre are two similar networking sites with similar names - the other is myspace.com Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 10:15 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Grouply Supposed social-networking sites like Grouply, Question_It, Fanbox and many others are some of the newest scams being perpetuated on naive internet users around the world. People join these supposed social-networking sites and download some software that then sends out invitations to every email address that can be data-mined from the persons computer. The person, themselves, are not doing the actual sending and may not even know their computers have been compromised... unless they read this. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/7/2008 11:38:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/8/2008 12:01:43 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29788	From: Chris	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

What are you talking about? I have a Grouply account and have had no problems with it. My yahoo account is still in tack, and have received no spam off of them. Grouply asks for your yahoo info because it does log into your yahoo because the site will not do its function with out it. My spy ware and anti virus haven't flagged any malicious software either. Finally, as a Grouply user, you haven't received any invitations from me because I chose not to invite anyone individually or the group in general (which I could do). --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "clubsprint" <clubsprint@...> wrote: > > Why is nhn62728@... from this group sending me invites to join > grouply (and give them my yahoo id and password)? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29789	From: Dr. Norman Ali Khalaf	Date: 9/7/2008
Subject: Cetacea Palaestina : The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters.

Cetacea Palaestina : The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters. Cetacean Species Guide for Palestine.* By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. Website: http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Cetacea_Palaestina.html * Note: This article was published in "Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin". Number 83, November 2008, pp. 1-14. Cetacea Palaestina: Applies to species, individuals of which have either been sighted offshore or have beached in an apparently good nutritional status. Cetaceans of the Mediterranean continental shelf (presented in descending order of body size): 1. Sperm whale (Physeter macrocephalus). 2. Minke whale (Balaenoptera acutorostrata). 3. Cuvier's beaked whale (Ziphius cavirostris). 4. False killer whale (Pseudorca crassidens). 5. Risso's dolphin (Grampus griseus). 6. Common bottlenose dolphin (Tursiops truncates). 7. Rough-toothed dolphin (Steno bredanensis). 8. Indo-Pacific humpback dolphin (Sousa chinensis). 9. Short-beaked Common dolphin (Delphinus delphis). 10. Striped dolphin (Stenella coeruleoalba). Cetaceans of the Gulf of Aqaba / Eilat (absent from the Mediterranean): 11. Indo-Pacific bottlenose dolphin (Tursiops aduncus). 12. Arabian Common Dolphin (Delphinus tropicalis). 13. Pantropical spotted dolphin (Stenella attenuata). 14. Long-snouted spinner dolphin (Stenella longirostris). 1. Sperm whale (Physeter macrocephalus): Meaning of species name is "big head". Cosmopolitan, the largest toothed-whale and record holder of both dive depth (2 km) and dive duration (2 h) among marine mammals. At sea identification: The largest regional cetacean and the only one demonstrating marked sexual bimorphism, males reaching 18 m and females only 11 m. The crate-shaped head is disproportionately large, especially in the mature male, where it comprises a third of the body length. Unlike other cetaceans, the skin is wrinkled. Pectoral fins are very small relative to body size and the dorsal fin is essentially lacking, being replaced by an inconspicuous hump, and trailed by a series of small ridges. Color ranges from dark grey to brown, the under part of the head showing lighter coloration. The blow is very prominent and distinctly diagonal, aimed forward and leftward. Uses a "fluke-up" dive when sounding (tailstock exposed vertically, with the under part of the flukes visible). Sperm whales dive very deep and long, up to an hour or more. Lives above the slope, but may approach close to shore over undersea canyons and cliffs. Swim speed usually 3 knots, may increase to 12. Identifying marks on land: No room for error. Lower jaw is very narrow, with two rows of 20-25 teeth. Teeth in the upper jaw do not erupt. The Mediterranean population is probably endemic but its social structure (especially of males) is largely unknown. The pattern of mature males roving between groups of females with calves probably holds. In other parts of the world, male calves leave the maternal pod at the age of six to form bachelor groups and may only reach physical and sexual maturity at the age of 20, at which time they may become solitary. Feeds on squid and octopus and very rarely on cartilaginous fish. Females give birth every 4-6 years after an 18 month long pregnancy. Calves may suckle for several years. Has been acoustically spotted on June of 2005 off Isdud/Ashdod and a near-term or newborn calf has beached on El-Khdera/Hadera Port on August of 2005. Several unauthenticated but apparently credible sightings of sperm whale by fishermen and divers exist in the "Israel Marine Mammals Research & Assistance Center" (IMMRAC) records. Additional facts: Weight: 57 tons for males and 24 tons for females. Newborn length is 4 meters and weight is 1 ton. Life expectancy: 70 years. 2. Minke whale (Balaenoptera acutorostrata): Meaning of species name is "sharp/pointed snout". Smallest and most abundant of the rorquals ("red-throats", named after the pinkish tint of their vascularized ventral grooves). Cosmopolitan. At sea identification: Mature animals are 8 m in length, black or dark grey in color, with a light underside. Small, sickle-shaped dorsal fin at the front of the posterior 1/3 of the back. Seen from above, the head looks flat, V-shaped, with a single central ridge. Exposes little of its body when surfacing to breath and has an inconspicuous blow. Travels solitary, in pairs, or in small groups, it is rather inquisitive and tends to approach vessels Identifying marks on land: Baleen plates, double blow hole and flashing white strip in the middle of the pectoral fins (also noticeable at sea when at close range). Feeds on schooling pelagic fish and shrimps and is preyed upon by killer whale. Pregnancy lasts 10 months and calves are born every second year during the cold season. Rare in the Mediterranean, genetically related to the North Atlantic population. Individuals (including mother-lactating calf pairs) apparently venture seasonally into the region during late winter and spring. Additional facts: Adult weight: 9 tons. Newborn length is 2.8 meters and weight is 320 kg. Sexual maturity: 6-7 years. Life expectancy: 50 years. 3. Cuvier's beaked whale (Ziphius cavirostris): Meaning of species name is "hollow/cavitated snout", on account of the distinct concavity in the skull, in the region of the melon. Cosmopolitan in tropical, sub-tropical and temperate waters, the most abundant and widespread of the beaked whales. At sea identification: Adult body length is 5.5-7 m, coloration variable from brown to purplish-black, lightens with age, occasionally with round, white spotting/scarring on flanks and anal area. Does not show counter-shading (dark above, light below) but mostly the opposite. Frequently bears long sinuous white double tooth rakes, caused by the single pair of teeth in the lower jaw of mature males of its own species. Robust and fusiformed body with a small head, goose-like beak, small pectoral fins and small dorsal fin in front of the posterior 1/3 of the back. Very wide tale flooks, up to a 1/4 of body length. Lurches through water, exposing head when swimming fast. Dives deep and long for up to 40 minutes. Lives in water 1,500-3,000 m deep, solitary or in small groups of up to 7 individuals. Rather boat-shy. Identifying marks on land: Mouth line is a "grinning" S shaped. Toothless except the two front teeth that erupt in 5-6 year old males. A V-shaped throat groove is a feature common to all beaked whales and a distinctive indentation behind the blow hole may help differentiate Cuvier's from other beaked whales. Feeds on deep benthic squid which are located by sonar echoes and are sucked into the beak. Apparently by mistaken identification this species accumulates large quantities of plastic debris (up to 13 kg have been recorded) in its fore stomach. The vulnerability of beaked whales to low frequency active sonar used during Naval maneuvers (which causes mass strandings) has recently spurred intensive research on this least known of the toothed whale families. Widespread in the Mediterranean, Cuvier's beaked whale has never been sighted in our region. Yet several well-nourished individuals have stranded along the beach, more so on the northern part of Palestine. Additional facts: Adult weight: 2.5 tons (females somewhat heavier) Newborn length is 2.7 meters and weight is 300 kg Sexual maturity: 6-7 years. Life expectancy: At least 40 years and up to 60 years and more. 4. False killer whale (Pseudorca crassidens): Meaning of species name is "thick-toothed". Circum-global in deep warm waters. Total world population estimated at 80,000. At sea identification: Adult length is 5-6 meters, uniform black color. It has a lithe hydrodynamic body with a long and slender beakless head, oval-shaped from above and conic from the side. Large prominent concave dorsal fin at mid-length. Short and narrow pectoral fins with an "elbow". Sociable, readily approaches boats to bow-ride (the only black whale to do so). Lives in water deeper than 1,000 meters, active and acrobatic. Travels in groups of 10-20. Identifying marks on land: Unmistaken head shape. Eight to twelve very large conical teeth in each half jaw. Feeds on large fish and squid and occasionally on small cetaceans. Inter-birth period may extend to 6 years, pregnancy may last up to 16 months and lactation up to 2 years. Rare in the Mediterranean (though common in the Red Sea). Single sighting of a large group in our region. Additional facts: Adult weight: 1.2 tons. Newborn length is 1.9 meters and weight is 80 kg. Sexual maturity: 8-14 years. Life expectancy: 60 years. 5. Risso's dolphin (Grampus griseus): Meaning of species name is "grey". World-wide distribution, similar to the false killer whale. At sea identification: Adult body length is 4 meters, at the upper range of the "dolphin" terminology. Grey color than brightens with age, mainly on account of scarring by conspecific tooth rakes and octopus arm suckers, to the point of looking white. Round, beakless head with a distinct central fold from blow-hole to upper lip. Marked difference between the broad and stout front and the slender rear of body. Very prominent and tall triangular dorsal fin (up to 50 cm), possibly with the highest ratio to body length of all cetaceans. Usually sighted over steep shelf slopes, at depths of 300- 1,000 m, in groups of tens. Not too sociable, but allows close approach. When approaching vessels, will swim alongside, rather than bow-ride. May dive up to 30 min, but usual dive time is 2 min, with up to 10 inter-dive ventilations. Identifying marks on land: Apart from the above, adults lack teeth in the upper jaw and bear 1-7 teeth on each half of the lower. Nocturnal feeders, mainly on vertically migrating squid. Common in the Mediterranean and in our region (sightings of large groups with calves as well as strandings of live calves), more so in the north of Palestine. Very common in the gulf of Aqaba/Eilat. Additional facts: Adult weight: 400 Kg. Newborn length is 1.5 meters. Life expectancy: Over 30 years. 6. Common bottlenose dolphin (Tursiops truncates): Species name refers to the short, truncated beak. Circum-global in cold temperate to tropical waters At sea identification: Mean adult body length in our region is 2.5 m, occasionally reaching to 3m. This is in line with a slimmer and shorter near-shore morph, which in other world locations is genetically distinct from a larger (up to 4 m long) off-shore morph. Short, thick, cylindrical beak, well separated from the melon by a sharp crease. Robust body with grey to brown uniform coloration and a light belly. Variable shape of dorsal fin (aids in individual identification). Seen close to shore in groups of 5-6 (average) females and calves or juveniles, very fluid in number and composition. Adult males travel solitary or in pairs, occasionally joining encountered groups. Sociable and inquisitive, likes to bow- ride. Trails bottom trawlers, diving for 2-4 minutes and coming up for 4-5 breaths between dives. Identifying marks on land: The shape of the beak is characteristic. Up to 24 large, smooth and conical teeth in each half jaw. The majority of Palestinian strandings are of this species. Common in the Mediterranean, but in a declining trend, with fragmented populations. The only truly inshore species in our region. An extremely versatile forager, feeding on a variety of bottom and shallow water schooling fish. Natural predators are large sharks. Most solitary sociable dolphins are of this species, yet they are strong, wild animals and should be thus treated. Breads year round, pregnancy lasting 12 months and calves are usually weaned at 20 months but stay with their mother at least until the next birth. Additional facts (local population): Adult weight: Up to 300 Kg. Newborn length is 1.1 meters and weight is 20 kg. Oldest individual: 30 years. 7. Rough-toothed dolphin (Steno bredanensis): Species name after the artist Van Breda. Circum-global in deep warm waters. At sea identification: Mean adult body length is 2.5 m, dark coloration with a white to pinkish belly. Creamy or pinkish white blotches and spots on lower parts of flanks. Relatively long pectoral fins and tall triangular dorsal fin. Up close, identification is certain, on account of it being the only dolphin with the melon smoothly sloping into the beak, with no hint of a crease or change in angle. Usually sighted over deep waters, in groups of 10-20 with very tight formation and synchronous movement. Tends to swim near the surface with its dorsal fin exposed (could be confused with a shark). Rather boat-shy and not acrobatic. May dive up to 15 min. Identifying marks on land: Apart from the front of the head, the distinct mark is the longitudinal grooved or furrows on the teeth, that can be seen or felt. Relatively large eyes. Little is known about this dolphin. Feeds on a large variety of fish (of all sizes) and squid. Considered rare in the Mediterranean, but in our region strands regularly in late winter-spring and a large group entered Haifa Harbor on March 2005. Additional facts: Adult weight: 160 Kg. Newborn length is 1 m Life expectancy: Over 30 years. 8. Indo-Pacific humpback dolphin (Sousa chinensis): Meaning of species name "Chinese". Coastal, from the Cape of Good Hope to China and south to both sides of northern Australia. At sea identification: Mean adult body length is 2.4 m. Coloration ranges from grey, bluish grey, tan to pink and even white (in China), either uniform or with dark cape and tip of dorsal fin. Robust body, long and slender, separated beak, broad pectoral fins with rounded tips. The distinct mark of the western Indian Ocean and Red Sea population is the mid-back hump from which rises the dorsal fin (causing the exposed back to look like a 3-staired pyramid). Rarely seen in water deeper than 20 m. Solitary, in pairs or small groups, seemingly unsegregated by age or sex. Unsocial and non- acrobatic. Typically exposes beak prior to blow-hole upon surfacing. Also tends to expose head and a single pectoral fin when resting or milling. Flukes surface before sounding. Most dives are less than a minute. Especially when foraging, mat be found in mixed groups with bottlenose dolphins. Identifying marks on land: Hump and pectorals. 30-38 teeth in each half jaw. Feeds on a wide variety of shallow water fish. Sexual maturity at 10 years for both sexes, pregnancy lasts 10-12 months, calving peaks in spring and summer. Calf is weaned by 2, mother-calf bond lasts 3-4 years. Occurs in the Red Sea, up to the tip of the Gulf of Suez and the Bitter Lakes. Occasional Lessepsian migrant to the Mediterranean. A single sighting of one individual along the Palestinian coast, traveling and foraging in mid winter from Atlit to Isdud/Ashdod. Additional facts: Adult weight: 150-280 Kg. Newborn length is 1 m and weight is 25 kg Life expectancy: Probably 30-40 years. 9. Short-beaked Common dolphin (Delphinus delphis): Identification: The common dolphin is a medium sized dolphin, smaller than the more popular bottlenose dolphin. Adults range between 1.6 to 2.7 meters long, and can weigh between 70 and 235 kilograms. The colour pattern on the body is unusual. The back is dark and the belly is white, while on each side is an hourglass pattern colored light grey, yellow or gold in front and dirty grey in back. It has a long, thin rostrum with up to 50-60 small, sharp, interlocking teeth on each side of each jaw. Distribution: The common dolphin is widely distributed in temperate, sub-tropical and tropical waters throughout the world in a band roughly spanning 40 degrees south to 50 degrees north. The species typically prefer enclosed bodies of water such as the Red and Mediterranean Seas. Deep off-shore waters and to a lesser extent over continental shelves are preferred to shallow waters. Some populations may be present all year round; others appear to move in a migratory pattern. Preferred surface water temperature is 10-28 degrees Celsius. The sum population is unknown but numbers in the hundreds of thousands. Behaviour: Common dolphins travel in groups of around 10-50 in number and frequently gather into schools numbering 100 to 2000 individuals. These schools are generally very active - groups often surface, jump and splash together. Typical behaviour includes breaching, tail-slapping, chin-slapping, bow-riding and porpoising. Common dolphins are among the fastest swimming cetaceans, possibly reaching speeds of over 40 kph. The dolphins have been seen to mix with other cetaceans such as other dolphins in the Yellowfin tuna grounds of the eastern Pacific and also schools of Pilot Whales. An intriguing theory suggests that dolphins 'bow-riding' on very large whales was the origin of bow- riding on boats. The gestation period is about 11 months and the calving period is between one and three years. Sexual maturation occurs at five years and longevity is twenty to twenty-five years. These figures are subject to large variation across different populations. 10. Striped dolphin (Stenella coeruleoalba): Meaning of species name is "blue-white". Circum-global in deep warm waters. At sea identification: Mature animals are 2 m in length, Similar in form to the common dolphin and only identified by the distinct coloration of a dark blue back, white belly, grey flanks with a broad finger-shaped marking invading the dark mantle below the dorsal fin. Three dark stripes extend from the eye: to anus, to pectoral fin and a thin short one in between. Pellagic, over water deeper than 1,000 m. Acrobatic but boat-shy. In the Mediterranean, group size is 7-25. Identifying marks on land: If coloration pattern is not preserved, one should verify the lack of palate grooves, to differentiate from common dolphin. Feeds on mesopellagic (in the mid water column) squid and fish (more on the former), at depths between 200-700 m. Females in the Mediterranean reach maturity at 12 y, calves staying in their maternal group till 4 y before forming bachelor pods. The most abundant cetacean in the Mediterranean, with an endemic population of 100,000. In Palestine known solely from beachings (second most common). Additional facts: Adult weight: Up to 150 Kg. Newborn length is 0.9 m and weight is 10 kg Life expectancy: Up to 60 years. 11. Indo-Pacific bottlenose dolphin (Tursiops aduncus): Distribution roughly overlies that of the Indo-Pacific humpback dolphin. All wild bottlenose dolphins in the Gulf of Aqaba belong to this species, which is genetically closer to Stenella species and to the common dolphin than to the common bottlenose dolphin. At sea identification: Mature animals are 2-2.5 m in length, smaller and slimmer than the common bottlenose dolphin and with a more slender beak. Sexually mature animals acquire dark spots on the light under parts. This species is coastal only. Identifying marks on land: As of the common bottlenose dolphin. Feeds on fish and cephalopods, both bottom (reef) dwellers and pelagic. Rather common throughout the Gulf of Aqaba. 12. Arabian Common Dolphin (Delphinus tropicalis): Identification: All common dolphins are slender and have a long beak sharply demarcated from the melon. The dorsal fin is high and moderately curved backwards. Common dolphins are distinguished from other species by a unique crisscross colour pattern formed by interaction of the dorsal overlay and cape. This yields a four-part pattern of dark grey to black dorsally, buff to pale yellow anterior thoracic patch, light to medium grey on the flank and a white abdominal field. In the long-beaked species, the colour pattern is less crisp and colourful than in D. delphis. The Arabian common dolphin is characterized by an extremely long and thin beak and is found in the Red Sea and Indian Ocean, and is distinguished from the long-beaked species Delphinus capensis by its longer rostrum and higher tooth count. D. tropicalis lacks both the heavy black stripe coming forward on the sides from the vent and the black or smudgy face patterning often visible among individuals in large schools of D. capensis. D. tropicalis was separable from D. delphis by the extreme length of the rostrum alone (even longer than that of D. capensis). The overall impression was that D. tropicalis has a D. capensis body shape (but with a noticeably longer beak) and a D. delphis colour pattern. These features are clearly evident in the photograph above. Distribution: The Arabian Common Dolphin is distributed is found in the Red Sea, and the coastal waters of the Arabian Sea, from the Gulf of Aden and the Persian Gulf to the Malabar Coast of India; South China Sea. 13. Pantropical spotted dolphin (Stenella attenuate): Circum-global in tropical and some warm temperate waters. One of the most abundant cetaceans (estimated world population: 2 million). At sea identification: Mature animals are 1.7-2.5 m in length, similar in shape to other Stenella species. The countershaded juvenile gradually acquires spotting, contrasted to the background (light on dark and vice versa). Tip of snout is white. Stripes from snout to eye and pectorals. Open water dolphin, over depths exceeding 1,000 m. Very acrobatic and sociable to boats. Fast, energetic and surface-active swimmer, seen from afar by the splash of its long shallow leaps. Breaches frequently. Dives short (up to 3 min) and shallow relative to related species. Group size in the Red Sea is 5-20. Identifying marks on land: It is hard to positively identify beached Stenella species, unless coloration pattern is preserved. Teeth like in striped dolphin. Feeds at night on vertically migrating fish, cephalopods and shrimp at the top water layer, down to 200 m. Sexual maturity at 10 y in females and 14 y in males. Peak calving in summer, calf weaned at 18 m, with 2-3 years between births. The most common cetacean in the Red Sea. Additional facts: Adult weight: 100 Kg. Newborn length is 0.8 m Life expectancy: Not known. 14. Long-snouted Spinner dolphin (Stenella longirostris): Meaning of species name is "long-snouted". Circum-global in tropical and subtropical waters. The most abundant dolphin species in the tropics. At sea identification: Mature animals are 1.5-2.3 m in length (several varieties, including a dwarf morph, exist). Slender, elongated body, usually tri-color pattern (dark back, grey flanks and light belly). Dark stripe from eye to pectoral fin. Erect triangular dorsal fin. The most distinctive feature is the long and slender snout and the aerial display of up to 7 "screw" spins around the longitudinal axis while leaping. Readily approaches boats, usually sighted close to shore in variable-sized groups, depending on activity and food availability, often in mixed groups with pantropical spotted dolphin. In many areas rests/sleeps during the day in closed lagoons. Identifying marks on land: Up to 60 teeth in each half jaw. Feeds on vertically migrating schooling fish, squid and shrimps, up to 20 cm in size, down to a depth of 200 m. Sexual maturity at 6 y for females and 8 y for males, year round promiscuous breading, pregnancy 10 months long, weaning at 2 y and inter-breath interval is 3 years. Common in the Red Sea, single sighting in the south part of the Gulf of Aqaba. Additional facts: Adult weight: 80 Kg. Newborn length is 0.8 m Life expectancy: Not known. References: Abu Dhabi National Oil Company (2007). Fossil whale bones in Abu Dhabi's coastal sabkha. http://www.adnoc.ae/AdnocNews_Details.aspx? NewsID=68741029-3586-4ddd-9038-2e493ccfc26b&newid=162&mid=162 Arutz Sheva (2008). Distressed Whale Reaches Haifa Port. 24 Tammuz 5768, July 27, '08. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/150494 Baldwin, Robert (2003). Whales and Dolphins of Arabia. Mazoon Printing Press, Muscat, Oman. Balance, Lisa T; Pitman, Robert L. (1998). Cetaceans of the western tropical Indian Ocean: Distribution, relative abundance, and comparisons with cetacean communities of two other tropical ecosystems. Marine Mammal Science 14 (3): 429-459. Casinos, A. (1984). A note on the common dolphin of the South American Atlantic coast, with some remarks about the speciation of the genus Delphinus. Proceedings of the Third International Theriological Congress, Helsinki, 15 20 August 1982 4 Symposia on Ecology, Management and Protection of Mammal Populations Jaervinen, O ed. 141-142. CMS. Whales & Dolphins. Delphinus tropicalis van Bree, 1971. http://www.cms.int/reports/small_cetaceans/data/d_tropicalis/d_tropic alis.htm Cousteau , Jacques-Yves & Philippe Diole (Translated by J.F. Bernard) (1972). The Whale: Mighty Monarch of the Sea. (The Undersea Discoveries of Jacques-Yves Cousteau Ser.). Garden City, New York: Doubleday & Company, Inc, 1972. First Edition. Cousteau , Jacques-Yves & Philippe Diole (1975). Dolphins. Bookthrift Co (March 1988). pps. 304. Cousteau, Jacques-Yves & Philippe Diole (1987). The Whale. Arrowood Press, New York, 1987. [A review of the intimate relationship between man and whales, their physical attributes, and the Calypso's adventures as they film the leviathans. 124 full colour photographs]. Dolphin Reef Eilat. www.dolphinreef.co.il/ Dubai Dolphinarium. http://www.dubaidolphinarium.ae/ Efrat, Miriam Lock. Study Dolphins in Eilat. http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0107/study_dol phins_in_israel.shtml Eyadat, Fadi (Haaretz Correspondent) (2007). Dozens attend funeral after whale found dead in Haifa Port. 18/02/2007. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/827000.html Heyning, J. E. & Perrin, W. F. (1994). Evidence for two species of common dolphins (genus Delphinus) from the eastern North Pacific. Contributions in Science (Los Angeles) 442: 1-35. Israel Marine Mammals Research & Assistance Center. Cetacean species guide for Israel. http://immrac.haifa.ac.il/english/introduction.html Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1980). Tabie't Al-Talawon fi Al-Haywanat (The Colouration of Animals). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 1. January 1980, Safar 1401. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 4-5. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman (1982). A'maar Al-Haywanat (Animal Ages). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 18, Third Year, First Semester, Saturday 6.11.1982. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 7. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1987). Blue Whales (Balaenoptera musculus) from the State of Kuwait, Arabian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 14, Fifth Year, Shawal 1407 AH, June 1987 AD. pp. 1-14. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). The Minke Whale (Balaenoptera acutorostrata) in the Zoologisches Forschungsinstitut und Museum Alexander Koenig, Bonn, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 26, Tenth Year, January 1992. pp. 1-3. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Gazelle. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 30, Tenth Year, October 1992. pp. 1-7. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1994). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Shqae'q Al-Nouma'n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 16-21. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (Gründer) (seit Juni 2001). Wale und Delphine Club Yahoo Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Waleunddelphine/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2004). Gazelle: Das Palaestinensische Biologische Bulletin. Eine Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palaestina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2004. / Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. A Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2004. Erste Auflage (First Edition), Juli 2004: 452 Seiten. Zweite erweiterte Auflage, August 2004: 460 Seiten. Norman Ali Khalaf, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Germany. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Gazelle_Bulletin.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2004). Die Wal Sonderausstellung "Delphinidae Delphionidae" und "Kleinwale in Nord- und Ostsee" im Museum Alexander Koenig in Bonn, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 35, Twenty-second Year, September 2004. pp. 1. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2004). Der Schweinswal (Phocoena phocoena) in der Nord- und Ostsee...The Harbour Porpoise (Phocoena phocoena) in the North Sea and Baltic Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 36, Twenty-second Year, October 2004. pp. 1-7. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Thema des Tages (5. Januar 2005): In See gespuelter Indopazifischer Buckeldelfin (Sousa chinensis) in Thailand nach Tagen gerettet. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 37, Twenty-third Year, January 2005. pp. 1-3. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Story of Prophet Yunus (Jonah) and the Whale. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 9-13. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Jaffa (Yaffa): The History of an Old Palestinian Arab City on the Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 7-8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Andromeda Sea Monster of Jaffa. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005. / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palaestina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. Erste Auflage, August 2005: 376 Seiten. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Aquatica_Arabica.html Khalaf, Norman Ali (2005, 2006). Chapter 3: Geography, Flora and Fauna. Pages 33-39. in: Palestine: A Guide. By Mariam Shahin, Photography by George Azar. Northampton, Massachusetts: Interlink Publishing Group, 2005, 2006. xi + 471 pages. Appendices to page 500. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2006). A Bryde's Whale (Balaenoptera edeni) Stranding on Al Mamzar Beach, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 50. February 2006. pp. 1-5. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Brydes_Mamzar.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2006). Mammalia Arabica. Eine Zoologische Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980-2006 . / Mammalia Arabica. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980-2006. Erste Auflage, Juli 2006, 484 pp. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Mammalia_Arabica.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Haywanat Filistin (Fauna of Palestine). In: Wikipedia-Arabic, Al- Mawsu'a Al-Hurra (The Free Encyclopedia). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 69, September 2007, Sha'ban 1428 AH. pp. 1-4. (Article in Arabic). http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%8A% D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2008). Cetacea Palaestina: The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters. Cetacean Species Guide for Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 83, November 2008, Thu Al- Qi'ada 1429 AH. pp. 1-14. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Cetacea_Palaestina.html Rice, D.W. (1998). Marine mammals of the world: systematics and distribution. Society for Marine Mammalogy, Special Publication Number 4 (Wartzok D, Ed.), Lawrence, KS. USA. Rinat, Zafrir and The Associated Press (2008). 15-meter-long young beached whale dies on Ashkelon beach. 03/02/2008. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/950683.html Van Bree, P.J.H. & Gallagher, M.D. (1978). On the taxonomic status of Delphinus tropicalis van Bree, 1971 (Notes on Cetacea, Delphinoidea IX). Beaufortia 28: 1-8. Wikipedia. Common Dolphin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_dolphin Wikipedia. Jacques-Yves Cousteau. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques-Yves_Cousteau

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29790	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

I know that some people got into trouble when they elected to invite some people or to connect their address books. I too am curious what software Lenny is talking about. The article he sent us to was very nonspecific. And also how MySpace and Facebook connect to your address book by a different means than Grouply. Because I know that I've seen people having the same problem with one of them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 1:05 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply What are you talking about? I have a Grouply account and have had no problems with it. My yahoo account is still in tack, and have received no spam off of them. Grouply asks for your yahoo info because it does log into your yahoo because the site will not do its function with out it. My spy ware and anti virus haven't flagged any malicious software either. Finally, as a Grouply user, you haven't received any invitations from me because I chose not to invite anyone individually or the group in general (which I could do).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

Chris, The MAJOR problem with Grouply is that they are asking for and getting people's Yahoo ID and passwords. Here's a snip from one of many independent reviews about Grouply... http://www.ncs-tech.org/?p=1146 (Lots more info in the full article) START SNIP----- Consider for a moment what information is controlled by your Yahoo! credentials like all your Flickr photos; your Yahoo!Finance account information; your Yahoo! Security Key; all your Yahoo! profiles and identities; your OpenID key; your home address and telephone number; your Yahoo!Wallet information, even your Yahoo!Auctions account. Yep. Once you’ve given out your password, they have access to all of that, regardless if they have NO INTENTIONS WHATSOEVER of using it. Grouply tries to allay fears about potential misuse of your credentials in this part of their FAQ but to anyone with a modicum of concern about their data privacy, this is a HUGE red flag. Doesn’t matter what they say. (Can you say ‘rouge employee?’) Fact is, you’ve given out your password. What happens next?... ... There’s more, though. As I understand it, joining Grouply effectively overrides the privacy and other settings you’ve put in place on Yahoo!Groups you’re managing. Content becomes available, email addresses of subscribers become visible, everything becomes part of the network. ... (Also scroll down in the replies section where one or more of the Grouply founders replied to this article. Beginning with reply #26 in July, 2008, a Grouply rep says Yahoo Passwords are no longer required but then a new user posted that Grouply did ask for their Yahoo Password, then the Grouply rep said it was optional, so I guess others will have to elaborate on that.) END SNIP----- Besides the above, if they do have your Yahoo password, they can also access all of your email. Have you ever had a new PIN number emailed to you from your bank, PayPal, eBay, online investment accounts, etc.? What do you really know about Grouply and it's founders? Here is what Snopes.com says about Grouply in their forums. http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?p=508572 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 1:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply What are you talking about? I have a Grouply account and have had no problems with it. My yahoo account is still in tack, and have received no spam off of them. Grouply asks for your yahoo info because it does log into your yahoo because the site will not do its function with out it. My spy ware and anti virus haven't flagged any malicious software either. Finally, as a Grouply user, you haven't received any invitations from me because I chose not to invite anyone individually or the group in general (which I could do). --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "clubsprint" <clubsprint@...> wrote: > > Why is nhn62728@... from this group sending me invites to join grouply > (and give them my yahoo id and password)? > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/8/2008 1:29:53 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080907-0, 09/07/2008 Tested on: 9/8/2008 9:44:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29792	From: Chris	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

anyone who stores their personal information on yahoo is a moron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "clubsprint" <clubsprint@...> wrote: > > Why is nhn62728@... from this group sending me invites to join > grouply (and give them my yahoo id and password)? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29793	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

Others might say that people who give out their yahoo passwords are. ;-) Many people use Yahoo as a home page and they have it set up to see their investments, etc. at a glance. Further, as I stated before, many people send and receive personal info via email I don't use Yahoo or any other search portal as a home page but I do have other websites with https URL's (banking, investment, PayPal, eBay, etc.) to be sure the data being sent is encrypted to a certain degree and I use Roboform to create high security passwords so I'm certainly NOT going to share any of my passwords with a third party that I do not know or trust. As you may have already seen, if you've read any of the links I provided, Grouply has changed their privacy policies many times since their startup... who knows what they may change them to in the future.... for better or for worse. With that said and all of the reading I've been doing, there does seem to be a way for individual Yahoo Groups to opt out of Grouply having access to the group so maybe one of the mods or owners needs to go to Grouply and traverse through the steps to make AquaticLife inaccessible to Grouply members... unless they actually join AquaticLife. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply anyone who stores their personal information on yahoo is a moron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "clubsprint" <clubsprint@...> wrote: > > Why is nhn62728@... from this group sending me invites to join grouply > (and give them my yahoo id and password)? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080908-0, 09/08/2008 Tested on: 9/8/2008 2:06:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29794	From: Margie	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

I do not let Yahoo tool bar on my home or office PC. . It just slows everything down way to much. I just down-loaded Zone Alarm and it came with a tool bar, and I will see if it is to remain. I don't think people are morons, I think they are just unaware, maybe.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/8/2008 2:06:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply Others might say that people who give out their yahoo passwords are. ;-) Many people use Yahoo as a home page and they have it set up to see their investments, etc. at a glance. Further, as I stated before, many people send and receive personal info via email I don't use Yahoo or any other search portal as a home page but I do have other websites with https URL's (banking, investment, PayPal, eBay, etc.) to be sure the data being sent is encrypted to a certain degree and I use Roboform to create high security passwords so I'm certainly NOT going to share any of my passwords with a third party that I do not know or trust. As you may have already seen, if you've read any of the links I provided, Grouply has changed their privacy policies many times since their startup... who knows what they may change them to in the future.... for better or for worse. With that said and all of the reading I've been doing, there does seem to be a way for individual Yahoo Groups to opt out of Grouply having access to the group so maybe one of the mods or owners needs to go to Grouply and traverse through the steps to make AquaticLife inaccessible to Grouply members... unless they actually join AquaticLife. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply anyone who stores their personal information on yahoo is a moron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "clubsprint" <clubsprint@...> wrote: > > Why is nhn62728@... from this group sending me invites to join grouply > (and give them my yahoo id and password)? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080908-0, 09/08/2008 Tested on: 9/8/2008 2:06:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29795	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Can Smoke affect water quality?

I have a 40 gal freshwater with a biowheel. We often have Saturday night get togethers at the house. Most of the people I know are smokers and after a night of cards there is a lot of smoke. Last Sunday I lost a seeminly healthy pregnant fish, wondering if the poor thing was not nicotined to death. I highly doubt it ,but can smoke compromise the water quality? Thanks, Viv

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29796	From: Chris	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?

Cover your tank and use activated carbon. I am a smoker and live with another. Most of my friends smoke, and I like to burn incents on occasion so I've been wonderring the same. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "vivian bradish" <viv32117@...> wrote: > > I have a 40 gal freshwater with a biowheel. We often have Saturday > night get togethers at the house. Most of the people I know are > smokers and after a night of cards there is a lot of smoke. > Last Sunday I lost a seeminly healthy pregnant fish, wondering if the > poor thing was not nicotined to death. I highly doubt it ,but can > smoke compromise the water quality? > > Thanks, > Viv >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29797	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?

Keeping your tank covered tightly will work to a degree but if you have an air-pump pumping room air into the tank, then the smoke/nicotine will still get into the water. If room air is getting into the air space in the tank, then the surface agitation of the water will in-gas the smoke/nicotine and any other airborne pollutants into the water. As Chris said, running fresh carbon every few weeks (or more advanced chemical filter media like Purigen and cleaning it as needed) will help but keeping the smoke/pollutants out of the water in the first place would be better. I'm not sure the smoke/pollutants actually killed the fish that quickly though... but it's certainly not good for them. If you have an air pump on the tank, moving the pump to a place where the intake is fresh air would then create a positive zone of fresh air inside the tank (as the air bubbles pop at the surface) so the smoky air would be far less likely to even get into the water in the first place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Can Smoke affect water quality? Cover your tank and use activated carbon. I am a smoker and live with another. Most of my friends smoke, and I like to burn incents on occasion so I've been wonderring the same. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "vivian bradish" <viv32117@...> wrote: > > I have a 40 gal freshwater with a biowheel. We often have Saturday > night get togethers at the house. Most of the people I know are > smokers and after a night of cards there is a lot of smoke. > Last Sunday I lost a seeminly healthy pregnant fish, wondering if the > poor thing was not nicotined to death. I highly doubt it ,but can > smoke compromise the water quality? > > Thanks, > Viv > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080908-0, 09/08/2008 Tested on: 9/8/2008 3:32:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080908-0, 09/08/2008 Tested on: 9/8/2008 3:44:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29798	From: Chris	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?

I think a heavy blanket over the tank would be good enough. The air pump would be a problem. You could put the pump on the hood when you cover that to. I guess you could stop the pump for the time, but I don't know how that would effect the fish. I imagine that if the tank was planted enough it could hold out for a night. Air pumps have a an intake on them. I've seen coffe filters coated with vasoline, to catch pollution for a school experiment. I don't know if it would allow air flow, but you could try coverring the intake and see if it works. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Keeping your tank covered tightly will work to a degree but if you have an > air-pump pumping room air into the tank, then the smoke/nicotine will still > get into the water. If room air is getting into the air space in the tank, > then the surface agitation of the water will in-gas the smoke/nicotine and > any other airborne pollutants into the water. > > As Chris said, running fresh carbon every few weeks (or more advanced > chemical filter media like Purigen and cleaning it as needed) will help but > keeping the smoke/pollutants out of the water in the first place would be > better. I'm not sure the smoke/pollutants actually killed the fish that > quickly though... but it's certainly not good for them. > > If you have an air pump on the tank, moving the pump to a place where the > intake is fresh air would then create a positive zone of fresh air inside > the tank (as the air bubbles pop at the surface) so the smoky air would be > far less likely to even get into the water in the first place. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 3:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Can Smoke affect water quality? > > Cover your tank and use activated carbon. I am a smoker and live with > another. Most of my friends smoke, and I like to burn incents on occasion so > I've been wonderring the same. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "vivian bradish" <viv32117@> wrote: > > > > I have a 40 gal freshwater with a biowheel. We often have Saturday > > night get togethers at the house. Most of the people I know are > > smokers and after a night of cards there is a lot of smoke. > > Last Sunday I lost a seeminly healthy pregnant fish, wondering if the > > poor thing was not nicotined to death. I highly doubt it ,but can > > smoke compromise the water quality? > > > > Thanks, > > Viv > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080908-0, 09/08/2008 > Tested on: 9/8/2008 3:32:04 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080908-0, 09/08/2008 > Tested on: 9/8/2008 3:44:13 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29799	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

Oh, is that what's doing it? I'll turn it off and see what happens! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 2:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply I do not let Yahoo tool bar on my home or office PC. . It just slows everything down way to much. I just down-loaded Zone Alarm and it came with a tool bar, and I will see if it is to remain. I don't think people are morons, I think they are just unaware, maybe.  Margie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29800	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?

Ray may wish to chip in here also, but, I come from a generation when the smoking population was more than 50% of the whole, and I do know several aquarists who are heavy smokers. I do not know of anyone who had a problem in their tanks due to smoke in and around the fish room. These were people who kept rare fish and bred fish that supposedly could not be bred in captivity, or never had been bred in captivity, so if there were any ill effects from smoking, surely they would have noted that and banned smoking, at least, from around the aquariums. Now, I don't know if Ray is, or was, a smoker, but I know he knew some of the same people I knew (and know), so he may have something to add to this. Now, for adding filtration, the place to add it would probably be at the air intake(s) if you are pushing air through the system, in the form of activated carbon, and also in the filtration system(s). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 4:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can Smoke affect water quality? I have a 40 gal freshwater with a biowheel. We often have Saturday night get togethers at the house. Most of the people I know are smokers and after a night of cards there is a lot of smoke. Last Sunday I lost a seeminly healthy pregnant fish, wondering if the poor thing was not nicotined to death. I highly doubt it ,but can smoke compromise the water quality? Thanks, Viv

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29801	From: harry perry	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply/Dora

It's spam from grouply. Everyone got the message. In the past when I contacted the sender I learned that Grouply used the senders i.d. without his/her permission. This is just some of the crap you get with Grouply. I'll delete any member that shows up with a grouply I.D. Harry a moderator --- On Mon, 9/8/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 7:44 PM Oh, is that what's doing it? I'll turn it off and see what happens! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@ worldnet. att.net> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 2:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply I do not let Yahoo tool bar on my home or office PC. . It just slows everything down way to much. I just down-loaded Zone Alarm and it came with a tool bar, and I will see if it is to remain. I don't think people are morons, I think they are just unaware, maybe.  Margie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29802	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

I did not read what Lenny had posted, but I did see a headline today in a tech oriented e-mail about MySpace and Facebook being vectors for distribution of worms and trojans. From what I have seen written prior, it appears that they are spread by means of infected pages, such as adding something to a user's page, or distributing a program such is popular on Facebook. I am sure other sites performing similar functions have the same problems, and, perhaps, other means of spreading malware. After a period of relative calm, my business is getting more and more calls to remove malware from machines, and some of the stuff is so difficult to remove, we must re-image the machine or do bare metal installs to remove the malware. My motto for lists and such is that if it ain't plain text, I'm not interested. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply I know that some people got into trouble when they elected to invite some people or to connect their address books. I too am curious what software Lenny is talking about. The article he sent us to was very nonspecific. And also how MySpace and Facebook connect to your address book by a different means than Grouply. Because I know that I've seen people having the same problem with one of them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 1:05 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply What are you talking about? I have a Grouply account and have had no problems with it. My yahoo account is still in tack, and have received no spam off of them. Grouply asks for your yahoo info because it does log into your yahoo because the site will not do its function with out it. My spy ware and anti virus haven't flagged any malicious software either. Finally, as a Grouply user, you haven't received any invitations from me because I chose not to invite anyone individually or the group in general (which I could do).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29803	From: harry perry	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: The Grouply story

http://tinyurl.com/ypn2bd Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29804	From: Margie	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

On my computers I deleted it  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 09/08/08 18:45:51 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply Oh, is that what's doing it? I'll turn it off and see what happens! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 2:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply I do not let Yahoo tool bar on my home or office PC. . It just slows everything down way to much. I just down-loaded Zone Alarm and it came with a tool bar, and I will see if it is to remain. I don't think people are morons, I think they are just unaware, maybe.  Margie ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29805	From: Margie	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Grouply story

I just tried that tinyurl below and my Zone Alarm said it could contain spy ware. So I nix' d it.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: harry perry Date: 9/8/2008 7:00:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The Grouply story http://tinyurl.com/ypn2bd Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29806	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Grouply story

TinyURL's in and of themselves do not contain spyware but there have been cases where malicious people would create a TinyURL or ShortURL going to a malicious site and then send out the TinyURL or ShortURL link and unsuspecting people would click the link and if their computers did not have current security programs in force, they could get infected. You can set up both of those sites to give you preview screens showing the actual URL that the shortened URL is going to so you know where the shortened URL will be bringing you before you click the actual link on the TinyURL page. This is how I have my TinyURL preferences set up and this is what I saw when I clicked the link. -------- Preview of TinyURL.com/ypn2bd This TinyURL redirects to: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=2 0080209074408AAEdoHS Proceed to this site (was a link before I copy/pasted). --------- This let me know that the TinyURL was going to a Yahoo Answers page. Your ZA preferences may be too strict or there should have at least been a "click here for more info" link letting you know the above. I know you are kind of new out here but almost anything that Harry Perry sends you or says will be legit... although he did send me to a pin-up site of Marilyn Monroe once... but then I didn't complain about it either. LOL (Just kidding!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 7:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Grouply story I just tried that tinyurl below and my Zone Alarm said it could contain spy ware. So I nix' d it.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: harry perry Date: 9/8/2008 7:00:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Grouply story http://tinyurl.com/ypn2bd <http://tinyurl.com/ypn2bd> Harry _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080908-0, 09/08/2008 Tested on: 9/8/2008 7:34:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29807	From: harry perry	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Grouply story/Tinyurl

I use it because Yahoo is noted for adding extra spaces to a link. Lenny, glad you enjoyed the MM pics. Harry --- On Mon, 9/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Grouply story To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 8:34 PM TinyURL's in and of themselves do not contain spyware but there have been cases where malicious people would create a TinyURL or ShortURL going to a malicious site and then send out the TinyURL or ShortURL link and unsuspecting people would click the link and if their computers did not have current security programs in force, they could get infected. You can set up both of those sites to give you preview screens showing the actual URL that the shortened URL is going to so you know where the shortened URL will be bringing you before you click the actual link on the TinyURL page. This is how I have my TinyURL preferences set up and this is what I saw when I clicked the link. -------- Preview of TinyURL.com/ ypn2bd This TinyURL redirects to: http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 2 0080209074408AAEdoH S Proceed to this site (was a link before I copy/pasted) . --------- This let me know that the TinyURL was going to a Yahoo Answers page. Your ZA preferences may be too strict or there should have at least been a "click here for more info" link letting you know the above. I know you are kind of new out here but almost anything that Harry Perry sends you or says will be legit... although he did send me to a pin-up site of Marilyn Monroe once... but then I didn't complain about it either. LOL (Just kidding!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 7:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Grouply story I just tried that tinyurl below and my Zone Alarm said it could contain spy ware. So I nix' d it.  Margie http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/> http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 /shelf <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 /shelf> -------Original Message----- -- From: harry perry Date: 9/8/2008 7:00:50 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Grouply story http://tinyurl. com/ypn2bd <http://tinyurl. com/ypn2bd> Harry _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080908-0, 09/08/2008 Tested on: 9/8/2008 7:34:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29808	From: Joe	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?

Yes, smoke, air fresheners and air quality in a room effect your aquarium. A tank in a heavily smoke filled room can have problems. During the smoke times, cover the tank and increase surface agitation with air stones. as long as the smoke is not settling on the surface, tank should be fine. I don't know if smoke was cause of fish loss but smoke can effect your tanks health. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29809	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Cetacea Palaestina : The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Wate

> Cetacea Palaestina : The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters. > Cetacean Species Guide for Palestine.* > Awesome! Someone is keeping cetaceans in their home aquaria? ;-) I'm jealous!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29810	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Cetacea Palaestina : The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Wate

i know! too cool.. On 9/8/08, Diana Brooks <diana_brooks@...> wrote: > > > Cetacea Palaestina : The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters. > > Cetacean Species Guide for Palestine.* > > > Awesome! Someone is keeping cetaceans in their home aquaria? ;-) > I'm jealous! > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29811	From: Jenn	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Labidochromis sp. Hongi

My mystery cichlids that I got from the "feeder" tank have finally been identified! Yay! I have 6 little Labidochromis sp. Hongi. In regards to temperment, I have read completely contraditory information. I have read they are not very aggressive and can be kept in a community tank (which they won't) and that they are very aggressive and should be kept with other aggressive cichlids. I have also read that these fish are not too common in the fish trade. Is that true? Does anyone have personal experience with this particular species? I am going to set them up in a 55 gallon tank with as many "caves" as I can make with rock and clay pots. What kind of catfish or bottom feeders would you suggest? jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29812	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/8/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?

Hi \\Steve//, Yes -- I can elaborate a bit on this. Similar to your experiences, I too know of no toxicity problems resulting from smoke adversely affecting the water quality. However, from early on in this hobby (and especially from early on), it was emphatically recommended during the earlier years of our hobby to avoid subjecting your aquariums to the affects of smoke. I had contemplated to reply to this question when I first saw it (soon after it was first posted), but then saw that Lenny had given a fairly comprehensive reply to it shortly thereafter. My first intentions were to write something to the effect of -- What happened to this subject in our aquarium books of today, that it appears to be no longer included in them -- or is it just that today's hobbyists no longer read these publications? In years past, there were many recommendations to refrain from smoking in the presence of your aquariums, both in the various books at the time, and the magazines of the hobby. Going back to Dr, Innes' "Exotic Aquarium Fishes," of which its contents never seem to be outdated, he states in the General Management section under the Subject of Gases, "Fumes from varnishes, varnish removers, paints turpentine, shellac, insecticides or anything containing wood alcohol, are all injurious to aquarium water. Not infrequently they are fatal. An excess of tobacco smoke does no good." By this I can gather that smoke is no less capable of being absorbed by water than are those agents that are more toxic. It only remains to what concentrations they are absorbed in. Certainly, smoke being absorbed in our aquarium water does no good for our fish. I don't smoke myself, but I surely remember the kindly requests of most any aquarists I would visit in reminding visitors to please refrain from smoking in their fish rooms. The seeming lack of this advice as found in present-day literature may be due in part to the large reduction in the habit of smoking by much of our population. Still, I would advise against this environment of having a smoke-filled aquarium room, if one's company were smokers, especially heavy smokers. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29813	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/9/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?

Whoo--the can of worms has been opened. The replies to my question are probably better than the upcoming presidential debates! Viv --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <joe@...> wrote: > > Yes, smoke, air fresheners and air quality in a room effect your aquarium. A tank in a heavily smoke filled room can have problems. During the smoke times, cover the tank and increase surface agitation with air stones. as long as the smoke is not settling on the surface, tank should be fine. I don't know if smoke was cause of fish loss but smoke can effect your tanks health. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29814	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/9/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?

Whoo--the can of worms has been opened. The replies to my question are probably better than the upcoming presidential debates! Viv --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <joe@...> wrote: > > Yes, smoke, air fresheners and air quality in a room effect your aquarium. A tank in a heavily smoke filled room can have problems. During the smoke times, cover the tank and increase surface agitation with air stones. as long as the smoke is not settling on the surface, tank should be fine. I don't know if smoke was cause of fish loss but smoke can effect your tanks health. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29815	From: Chris	Date: 9/9/2008
Subject: Re: Grouply

Never put your eggs in one basket. I don't care about my yahoo account personally, and would never keep personal information on yahoo. That is dumb. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Others might say that people who give out their yahoo passwords are. ;-) > > Many people use Yahoo as a home page and they have it set up to see their > investments, etc. at a glance. Further, as I stated before, many people > send and receive personal info via email > > I don't use Yahoo or any other search portal as a home page but I do have > other websites with https URL's (banking, investment, PayPal, eBay, etc.) to > be sure the data being sent is encrypted to a certain degree and I use > Roboform to create high security passwords so I'm certainly NOT going to > share any of my passwords with a third party that I do not know or trust. > > As you may have already seen, if you've read any of the links I provided, > Grouply has changed their privacy policies many times since their startup... > who knows what they may change them to in the future.... for better or for > worse. > > With that said and all of the reading I've been doing, there does seem to be > a way for individual Yahoo Groups to opt out of Grouply having access to the > group so maybe one of the mods or owners needs to go to Grouply and traverse > through the steps to make AquaticLife inaccessible to Grouply members... > unless they actually join AquaticLife. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 12:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Grouply > > anyone who stores their personal information on yahoo is a moron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "clubsprint" <clubsprint@> wrote: > > > > Why is nhn62728@ from this group sending me invites to join grouply > > (and give them my yahoo id and password)? > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080908-0, 09/08/2008 > Tested on: 9/8/2008 2:06:05 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29816	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/9/2008
Subject: Re: Labidochromis sp. Hongi

They are moderately to very aggressive depending on the personality of the individuals. You can combine them in a 55G comfortably with 2 other species of Lake Malawi mbuna, but choose something other than Labidochromis. As they mature watch for the males to color up and remove all but one keep at least 4 females with him. They are quite common (but not as common as Labidochromis Caeruleus, the yellow lab). To spread aggression, you actually WANT to add another species or two in this tank (catfish don’t count) don’t try to keep 6 mbuna alone in a 55G tank until maturity. Fill the tank at least half full of rocks (I have 250 pounds in my six foot tank). Ideal catfish are Synodontis Lucipinnis or Synodontis Multipunctatus, both are leopard spotted catfish that have a shape and swimming pattern reminiscent of sharks. They like to be in groups of 5-6. Lucipinnis are smaller, keep these if you want to save fry. Multipunctatus are larger, keep these if you are not equipped with the several additional tanks it will take to raise fry. I love mine, best of luck! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Labidochromis sp. Hongi My mystery cichlids that I got from the "feeder" tank have finally been identified! Yay! I have 6 little Labidochromis sp. Hongi. In regards to temperment, I have read completely contraditory information. I have read they are not very aggressive and can be kept in a community tank (which they won't) and that they are very aggressive and should be kept with other aggressive cichlids. I have also read that these fish are not too common in the fish trade. Is that true? Does anyone have personal experience with this particular species? I am going to set them up in a 55 gallon tank with as many "caves" as I can make with rock and clay pots. What kind of catfish or bottom feeders would you suggest? jenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29817	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/9/2008
Subject: Re: Labidochromis sp. Hongi

Jenn; Most all Malawi Cichlids are aggressive, especially so amongst the Mbunas, displayed in varying degrees in the aquarium with the manner of their set up. The Genus Labidochromis is no exception if given the opportunity, but is one of the more mildly-mannered groups. I need to wonder what your interpretation of a "community" situation means to you. Certainly, Mbunas do not belong in an aquarium with Tetras, Barbs and Swordtails . . . and by this I mean NONE of them, not even Labidochromis species. Even aside from any behavioral differences between these fish and "ordinary" community-type fish, their water requirements are quite different even if such species as Swordtails do have requirements which can nearly approach those of Lake Malwai fishes. I have not kept this particular species, but as one of the early importers of Cichlids from Lake Malawi, I can tell you these fish will do best in a tank either just of their own kind, or in a tank of similarly-tempered Malawi Cichlids -- and this is where a community set up may come in to play. This species will do just fine in a community aquarium having species of other Mbuna possessing a similar behavior. As for any of its possible aggressiveness, and the extent of that behavior's association with the tank's set up, in general most average size (4" -- 5" max) Mbuna will do best (display less aggression) in a tank of a minimum length of 36" (preferably being at least 18" wide, but of secondary concern), having a good number of rocks and caves for the population to periodically seek refuge in -- especially that needed refuge from any dominant male. Labidochromis, having a somewhat milder temperament, may be housed in a 30" long tank (yes, this will of necessity -- because of the manner in which these are made -- be 12" wide), but a relatively bare tank devoid of many rocks and refuge areas will soon show any aggressiveness these fish are capable of displaying after they reach maturity, if the "chasee's" (as opposed to "chaser") have no place to retreat to. A quick word on any considerations for an Mbuna community tank -- in such an environment, the various species can and will interbreed resulting in hybrids that are not easily found to be saleable (nor sought after) -- as can be expected. For this reason, its usually best to maintain these aquariums as dedicated species tanks devoted to only one species. Depending upon the set up, there of course are always exceptions, but it should be noted that even what we might consider to be quite distantly related species of Haplochromines will interbreed in such environments, especially if a mate of its own species is not available -- or a male of this participating community species is not dominent (as is often the case in such an enclosed environment). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29818	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/9/2008
Subject: Re: Labidochromis sp. Hongi

Jenn, to add to your query on these East African Cichlids, catfish of choice you might consider might be Synodontis multipunctata or S. petricola. Your 55 gallon tank, being set up with rocks (caves) and flower pots will be ideal for these fish. In such a set up that will allow for the dominance of males of more than one of the smaller and less aggressive species, I see no (or very little) problem of inter-species breeding, as this 4' tank should allow for temporary territories to be set up at either end, when sparsely populated. With smaller aquaria and somewhat larger species, this possibility soon becomes an impossibility. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29819	From: jett07002	Date: 9/10/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?

> I personally would not allow anyone to smoke in my fish room. If you don't think it's getting into the water, think about the yellow stuff you wash off your inside windshield from smoking. That smoke in the aquarium vicinity has to be settling somewhere, and believe me the aquarium water is one of them. By the way, someone mentioned agitating the aquarium water to keep the smoke from mixing in the water. I disagree. That agitation is just mixing it IN the water faster that when it just floats atop the water as a "film", if you will. I know that the film is caused by other things, also. But if you smoke it is sure one of the contributors. Just like secondary smoke in the air of a room, it doesn't affect the residents for a long time, but it sure does affect them eventually. joe t > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <joe@> wrote: > > > > Yes, smoke, air fresheners and air quality in a room effect your > aquarium. A tank in a heavily smoke filled room can have problems. > During the smoke times, cover the tank and increase surface agitation > with air stones. as long as the smoke is not settling on the surface, > tank should be fine. I don't know if smoke was cause of fish loss > but smoke can effect your tanks health. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29820	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/10/2008
Subject: Snail disaster

I have a few MTS in my 10G planted tank. I wanted to rearrange some plants and take the driftwood out. I moved the fish out. I put an algae tablet in there to feed the remaining snails. That night I noticed a huge pile of snails on top of the algae tablet. The MTS were joined by a huge pile of pond snails and ramshorns that I didn't even know were there. Now I know where all the holes in my plants were coming from. There was also about 20 or more baby MTS. They were all white. Those pond snails were on top of the MTS. I had to knock some off. I pulled out about 15 of the buggers. The next day all the babies were laying around the tank and they were all brown and dead. Do you think the ponds and ramshorns ate them and just left the shells? I hope I don't sound too dumb but this is my first time with snails. I think 2 of the bigger MTS are dead too. I only see one moving around now. I guess I can scoop all these dead snails out with the net. What a mess. The lesson learned is to WASH NEW PLANTS THOROUGHLY. I guess I will try and get some loaches to keep the snail population under control. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29821	From: Joe	Date: 9/11/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?

Hello, the agitation of surface water, helps the filtration cycle. Agitating the surface creates a gas exchange between water and air, part of the filtration cycle. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29822	From: ED	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers

Everything I find shows brackish. We have 2-Figure 8's doing well in 15 high. I just scored a 55 for $35 and want to do salt and possably move the puffers to straight salt. Any info would be greatly appreceated. WoooHoo gotta love the weekend paper first was 20gal/10gal/5gal for $60 LOL had over $100 worth of pumps, $100 worth of filters alone ,$50-$70 of plastic plants and tanks that do not leak, Then yard salin' 55gal for $35 . 299.5gal total now and still growing. Glug Glug.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29823	From: jett07002	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?

Hi Joe: I know how the gas exchange is part of the filtration system, etc. but I still do not feel it completely frees the water from an adverse affect and thereby, in time, having a bad effect on the fish. I am admittedly not well versed on the scientific terms so I don't intend to have a pissing contest here about who's right and who's wrong. I'm not saying not to agitate the water, it is good to do that for a lot of reasons. I just don't agree that agitating the water makes it OK to smoke in the vicinity of the aquarium. (This is especially true if proper PWC routines are not followed.) I think that's equivalent to saying it's OK to have children in a room where people are smoking because the air conditioner is on. joe t In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <joe@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > the agitation of surface water, helps the filtration cycle. > Agitating the surface creates a gas exchange between water and air, part of the filtration cycle. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29824	From: pam andress	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers

Not fair! I haven't found those good deals!! Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: crowstarwalker@...: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:33:20 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers Everything I find shows brackish. We have 2-Figure 8's doing well in 15 high. I just scored a 55 for $35 and want to do salt and possably move the puffers to straight salt. Any info would be greatly appreceated. WoooHoo gotta love the weekend paper first was 20gal/10gal/5gal for $60 LOL had over $100 worth of pumps, $100 worth of filters alone ,$50-$70 of plastic plants and tanks that do not leak, Then yard salin' 55gal for $35 . 299.5gal total now and still growing. Glug Glug. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29825	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Ammonia in drinking water

Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29826	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Can Smoke affect water quality?

Hi Joe, Since, as you say, agitating the surface creates an exchange of gases between water and air (yes, it does promote this, even if it doesn't create it), then this is all the more reason why smoke should not be in the vicinity of the aquarium's atmosphere. Water surface agitation, caused by the action of aeration and/or filtration flows will cause the smoke to be absorbed by the water with greater ease. Oh, and unless fresh carbon is being employed, no amount of filtration will remove the dissolved smoke particles and chemicals (nicotine, etc.). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29827	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

1 ppm (part per million) of ammonia is a very small amount of ammonia. It's only too high for fish. It's actually a biproduct of the chlorine-based chemical they treat teh water with. I add enough Prime to get rid of most of it. I add 4 ml of Prime per two and a half gallons of water. Lenny insists that a cycled tank can handle it, but certainly not a not yet cycled tank, and I don't like to subject my fish to it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water > Dear Lenny + Group, > > I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in > both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a > week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however > the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill > explain.... > > I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap > water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 > Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish > shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my > poor fish! Ugh! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29828	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

Hiya Dora, Oh, ok, good to know it is only a small amount. Thanks. Is Prime a product I can find at Petsmart? I guess that is a Dechlor/all in 1 type of product? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:38:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water 1 ppm (part per million) of ammonia is a very small amount of ammonia. It's only too high for fish. It's actually a biproduct of the chlorine-based chemical they treat teh water with. I add enough Prime to get rid of most of it. I add 4 ml of Prime per two and a half gallons of water. Lenny insists that a cycled tank can handle it, but certainly not a not yet cycled tank, and I don't like to subject my fish to it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water > Dear Lenny + Group, > > I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in > both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a > week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however > the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill > explain.... > > I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap > water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 > Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish > shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my > poor fish! Ugh! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29829	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

Ps How long does it take for a tank to be cycled? I have had my 2 at least 2 months. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:38:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water 1 ppm (part per million) of ammonia is a very small amount of ammonia. It's only too high for fish. It's actually a biproduct of the chlorine-based chemical they treat teh water with. I add enough Prime to get rid of most of it. I add 4 ml of Prime per two and a half gallons of water. Lenny insists that a cycled tank can handle it, but certainly not a not yet cycled tank, and I don't like to subject my fish to it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water > Dear Lenny + Group, > > I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in > both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a > week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however > the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill > explain.... > > I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap > water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 > Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish > shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my > poor fish! Ugh! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29830	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

I think it took two or three months for my tank to cycle completely. But only my first effort at putting fish in it was a total disaster. The products that add bacteria to the tank help substantially. And the fact that I like to do frequent large water changes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Ps How long does it take for a tank to be cycled? I have had my 2 at least 2 months. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:38:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water 1 ppm (part per million) of ammonia is a very small amount of ammonia. It's only too high for fish. It's actually a biproduct of the chlorine-based chemical they treat teh water with. I add enough Prime to get rid of most of it. I add 4 ml of Prime per two and a half gallons of water. Lenny insists that a cycled tank can handle it, but certainly not a not yet cycled tank, and I don't like to subject my fish to it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water > Dear Lenny + Group, > > I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in > both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a > week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however > the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill > explain.... > > I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap > water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 > Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish > shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my > poor fish! Ugh! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29831	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

Yes, you can find Prime at Petsmart, and I'm pretty sure they have it even at Walmart. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Hiya Dora, Oh, ok, good to know it is only a small amount. Thanks. Is Prime a product I can find at Petsmart? I guess that is a Dechlor/all in 1 type of product? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:38:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water 1 ppm (part per million) of ammonia is a very small amount of ammonia. It's only too high for fish. It's actually a biproduct of the chlorine-based chemical they treat teh water with. I add enough Prime to get rid of most of it. I add 4 ml of Prime per two and a half gallons of water. Lenny insists that a cycled tank can handle it, but certainly not a not yet cycled tank, and I don't like to subject my fish to it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water > Dear Lenny + Group, > > I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in > both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a > week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however > the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill > explain.... > > I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap > water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 > Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish > shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my > poor fish! Ugh! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

I'm going to answer with "LENNY'S REPLY" following each paragraph below, since you have a lot of questions. You also NEED to go to my blog and read my long article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as I suspect some of your problems are related to that. Also go to my "A to Z of Fish Keeping..." page and read up on Cycling With Fish (link near the top) and take one or both of the FREE online fish keeping tutorials so you'll have a better basic understanding of things. Also see my article on "Establishing your tap water baseline" and give us those numbers at the three intervals. Give us your pH and water temperature ASAP. If your pH is under 7.5, then your 1.0ppm ammonia levels are probably not toxic but ultimately, they will come down to 0.0ppm once your tank is cycled. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. LENNY'S REPLY - I'm not so sure you've improved it although it may appear to be improved. Read on. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... LENNY'S REPLY - How long have the tanks been set up? I'm guessing not long since you said you are a beginner.... we all were at one time! Did you fishless cycle or cycle with fish? Do you understand "The Nitrogen Cycle" and how it works in your tank and filter systems? Were the tanks ever fully cycled? You may be messing up by following the instructions of the PetsMart people or even the filter manufacturers which is a common problem that I see for beginners. If you've read my long article on "Filter Maintenance...", you'll know what I'm talking about here. I see further down that you give your tank stocking and your 10G is overstocked which could be a big part of your problems with that tank. I'll address stocking suggestions following that paragraph. I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! LENNY'S REPLY - It's GREAT that you now have your own master test kit. That will go a long way in helping you "cycle" your tanks properly and start to understand a little more about water chemistry. Most tap water in the USA is treated with Chloramine which will show a slight level of ammonia in your tests since Chloramine is made up of chlorine and ammonia. If your tanks were fully cycled, this would not be an issue as that small amount of ammonia would be taken care of by the nitrifying bacteria (aka bio-filtration) in a properly cycled tank. If your tanks were fully cycled and you did a 25% PWC, you would only be adding 0.25ppm of ammonia which is not very much considering a fully stocked, properly maintained tank handles about 5.0ppm of ammonia per day. So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. LENNY'S REPLY - Why are you still listening to the PetsMart people? Aren't they the main reason you are in the position you are in? Maybe not, but 90% of the issues I see in forums are caused by people listening to pet store employees who do not have a clue on how to keep fish healthy and alive for the long term. There is also a chance that the products they sold you are giving you false readings on your tests. 99% of the JUNK products they sell on the shelves at pet stores simply are NOT needed 99% of the time. While the Zeolite mineral that is used for the ammo chips are OK for emergency situations (1.0ppm of ammonia is NOT an emergency), they will only make your problems worse in the long run. Presuming your tanks are not fully cycled or something happened to put the tanks into mini-cycles, the Zeolite will only be starving your nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia they need to survive and grow a proper sized colony to handle the bioload of your tank(s). Unfortunately, when cycling with fish, or if something happened to your bio-filtration (nitrifying bacteria), you have to allow the ammonia levels to remain between 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm in order to slowly build up the N-bacteria colonies to a size where they can once again handle 5.0ppm per day. Bring back all of the chemicals and filter additives they sold you and get a bottle of Prime which is a dechlor product that also helps make ammonia non-toxic. It will still be an ammonia by-product that the nitrifying bacteria can eat and grow their colonies. All the ammo-chips are doing is sucking up the ammonia which is starving your N-bacteria colonies so you'll never get your tank cycled properly. Also, for some people using ammo-chips or Zeolite based products, if you add salt to the tank, the sale will cause the Zeolite to release ALL of the ammonia which really makes a mess of things quickly (salt is not required with your fish except maybe the guppies but they are not your primary fish so they'll have to get along without the salt). Re-test your tanks daily and post your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and temperature so I can get a firm idea of what is happening in your tanks. What is your pH out the tap? In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! LENNY'S REPLY - You do not need to filter that little bit of ammonia out. All you need to do is get your tanks properly cycled and properly stocked, then you will no longer have ammonia issues. Since you seem to be stuck with "Cycling With Fish", use the Prime as your dechlor product to make the ammonia non-toxic. Once you are fully cycled and you understand what NOT to do that might mess up your N-bacteria, then you can use a simple dechlor product like API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They are the two dechlors that I use for my tanks... preferably the API brand but I can't always find it in stock in the 16 oz. size at my local PetsMart, so I have to get the 8 oz of TopFin's brand as my second most cost effective choice. Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp LENNY'S REPLY - I believe ADF's need at least 2.5G each so just them three kind of fills out the 10G. Definitely remove the tetras and the guppies from the 10G to reduce the bioload on the 10G, especially before the guppies start breeding. You may be able to make it with just the ADF's, the Betta and the Mystery Snails. The ghost shrimps are just un-caught food in the tank. *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. LENNY'S REPLY - The ghost shrimp will likely be future meals so they don't really count. This tank could handle the six neon's and the guppies which would help out your 10G tremendously. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 2:51:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29833	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

Dora, You are not subjecting your fish to anything that they don't already subject themselves to on a daily basis. Your fish handle 5.0ppm of ammonia every day... at least that's the usual amount in a properly stocked and maintained tank. Once the tank is cycled, the ammonia from the fishes gill function, urine and decaying detritus is instantly converted to nitrite>nitrate by the bio-filtration of a cycled tank. Prime is fine to use during "Cycling With Fish" or in case of a problem where a medicine might have killed off some/all of the N-bacteria, but it's just a waste of money in a healthy cycled tank. That little bit of ammonia will not harm us either. After all, we make a lot more than that inside our bodies every day... and then we pee! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water 1 ppm (part per million) of ammonia is a very small amount of ammonia. It's only too high for fish. It's actually a biproduct of the chlorine-based chemical they treat teh water with. I add enough Prime to get rid of most of it. I add 4 ml of Prime per two and a half gallons of water. Lenny insists that a cycled tank can handle it, but certainly not a not yet cycled tank, and I don't like to subject my fish to it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water > Dear Lenny + Group, > > I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right > in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for > about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and > ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate > measures, Ill explain.... > > I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap > water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a > 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned > fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time > and my poor fish! Ugh! > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 2:56:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29834	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

I believe most PetsMarts sell Prime. As you will see in my long reply to your initial post, I also recommended that you bring back all the other JUNK products they sold you and get the Prime for your cycling issues right now but it's not needed once a tank is fully cycled. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Hiya Dora, Oh, ok, good to know it is only a small amount. Thanks. Is Prime a product I can find at Petsmart? I guess that is a Dechlor/all in 1 type of product? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:38:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water 1 ppm (part per million) of ammonia is a very small amount of ammonia. It's only too high for fish. It's actually a biproduct of the chlorine-based chemical they treat teh water with. I add enough Prime to get rid of most of it. I add 4 ml of Prime per two and a half gallons of water. Lenny insists that a cycled tank can handle it, but certainly not a not yet cycled tank, and I don't like to subject my fish to it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water > Dear Lenny + Group, > > I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right > in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for > about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and > ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate > measures, Ill explain.... > > I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap > water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a > 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned > fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time > and my poor fish! Ugh! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-0, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 2:24:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 2:57:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29835	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

If things are done correctly, you should be fully cycled. I suspect you may have "trashed" your cycling progress if you threw away your filter cartridges or did improper filter maintenance over the past two months. It's a common newbie mistake... I did it too when I was starting out since the instructions on the filter box said to throw away the filter every 2-4 weeks. My long reply to your first post gave you suggestions on what to read ASAP on my blog. Remember that when doing a 25% PWC, you are only adding 0.25ppm of ammonia (25% of 1.0) which is next to nothing to a fish tank that handles 5.0ppm or more per day. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Ps How long does it take for a tank to be cycled? I have had my 2 at least 2 months. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:38:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water 1 ppm (part per million) of ammonia is a very small amount of ammonia. It's only too high for fish. It's actually a biproduct of the chlorine-based chemical they treat teh water with. I add enough Prime to get rid of most of it. I add 4 ml of Prime per two and a half gallons of water. Lenny insists that a cycled tank can handle it, but certainly not a not yet cycled tank, and I don't like to subject my fish to it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water > Dear Lenny + Group, > > I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right > in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for > about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and > ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate > measures, Ill explain.... > > I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap > water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a > 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned > fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time > and my poor fish! Ugh! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-0, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 2:24:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 3:00:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29836	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

"Fishless Cycling" is the best way to go. A 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia and 2-6 weeks and the tank is fully cycled to 5.0ppm of ammonia and ready for a full bioload of fish without putting the fish through the arduous process of "Cycling With Fish". If you seed the new tank with some healthy filter media from a friends tank, you can fishless cycle to 5.0ppm of ammonia per day in as little as 7-10 days. Just don't throw away your filter cartridges or other filter media as that will put you back into a mini-cycle. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water I think it took two or three months for my tank to cycle completely. But only my first effort at putting fish in it was a total disaster. The products that add bacteria to the tank help substantially. And the fact that I like to do frequent large water changes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Ps How long does it take for a tank to be cycled? I have had my 2 at least 2 months. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:38:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water 1 ppm (part per million) of ammonia is a very small amount of ammonia. It's only too high for fish. It's actually a biproduct of the chlorine-based chemical they treat teh water with. I add enough Prime to get rid of most of it. I add 4 ml of Prime per two and a half gallons of water. Lenny insists that a cycled tank can handle it, but certainly not a not yet cycled tank, and I don't like to subject my fish to it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water > Dear Lenny + Group, > > I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right > in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for > about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and > ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate > measures, Ill explain.... > > I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap > water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a > 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned > fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time > and my poor fish! Ugh! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-0, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 2:44:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 3:04:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29837	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Gold fish question

I have 1 comet goldfish and I am wondering if I should get her a Male or Female companion..............We had a male and he chased her constantly..I am still new to this stuff. Also I have been reading about feeding zucchini and other foods, how do you suspend these, so they're safe for the fish? TIA Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29838	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: FW: MODERATE -- bertindakpantas@yahoo.com posted to AquaticLife

I saw this new member, from earlier today, had some kind of broken English comment but did use the word fish so I guess they got approved... and what is their first message? Who knows? Can anyone read this? I did a Google of the words in the subject line and the top hit came back to a Malaysian Wellness Products website... so I'm guessing it's some kind of spam. Here's a snip from the Google summary on the site... "...Jadikan ia Sebagai Breakfast Drink..." http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8 <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=JADIKAN%20IA%20SEBAGAI%20P ENDAPATAN%20ANDA> &oe=UTF-8&q=JADIKAN%20IA%20SEBAGAI%20PENDAPATAN%20ANDA Mikey.... go ban 'em! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yahoo! Groups Notification Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com Subject: MODERATE -- bertindakpantas@... posted to AquaticLife Hello, A message has been sent to the AquaticLife group from bertindakpantas@... The message summary: -------------------- FROM: bertindakpantas@... DATE: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:51:01 -0700 (PDT) SUBJECT: JADIKAN IA SEBAGAI PENDAPATAN ANDA "Saya Akan Bongkarkan Rahsia Bagaimana Untuk Menjana Pendapatan Tambahan Sebanyak RM20,000 SebulanDari Internet Dalam Masa 5 Minit Lagi..." Sekarang, saya hanya ingin tanya kepada anda satu soalan berikut... Sudahkah anda berputus-asa dengan segala usaha untuk mencari pendapatan tambahansamada melalui Internet atau di luar? Anda sudah habis beratus-ratus... malah mungkin beribu ringgit dalam pelbagai skim dan teknik yang langsung tidak berbaloi? Jika ya, saya akan berikan sedikit panduan untuk keluar dari nasib malang yang anda telah alami selama ini dan mula -------------------- A complete copy of this message has been attached for your convenience. This message requires your approval for one of the following reasons: * Your group is set to moderate all messages from this user, OR * Your group is set to moderate messages from all users To approve or reject this message using the web, please visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/pending?view=1 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/pending?view=1&msg=4540> &msg=4540 To approve this message using email, reply to this message. You do not need to attach the original message, just reply and send. To reject this message using email, forward this message to AquaticLife-reject-PuvHpHhvsYagEqbg7KpA64I@yahoogroups.com NOTE: The pending message will expire after 14 days. If you do not take action within that time, the pending message will be automatically rejected. Yahoo! Groups does this to maintain a high quality of service for our users. Thank you for choosing Yahoo! Groups. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 3:55:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 4:27:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29839	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

Hey Lenny, WOW! That was a reply! Thanks :D. I will do the tests and report back the results for you so you can see what's up. I actually have read your tutorials, but its usually late at nite and maybe I missed a few parts of the info if I dozed off. I will review the info again. My tanks are about 3 mos. Old approx? My cycling was with fish, I guess its still cycling. I was more clueless back then, ay ay ay! Guess I still am. So I don't need to add aquarium salt at all then? I guess I will take all that stuff back and look for Prime, sounds good. As for your restocking suggestion, earlier today I did a test with the guppies, I put them in the big 55 G tank and my Female Bettas ganged up on them. As soon as I saw one get nipped, I scooped them out, and that took all of 4 seconds, so I guess they can't go. Weird how the Male doesn't bother them right? I will prob. Have to upgrade my 10 G once they start breeding I suppose, I wanted to anyway. Do you really think my Ghost shrimp won't last? None of my fish seem interested in them, although the Betta did eat 3 of the baby Guppies that were smaller. Don't the shrimp eat detritus? I know Amanos do, but do these? I will definitely move out the Neon Tetras, they're a challenge to catch though! Thanks so much for your help, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:51:10 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water I'm going to answer with "LENNY'S REPLY" following each paragraph below, since you have a lot of questions. You also NEED to go to my blog and read my long article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as I suspect some of your problems are related to that. Also go to my "A to Z of Fish Keeping..." page and read up on Cycling With Fish (link near the top) and take one or both of the FREE online fish keeping tutorials so you'll have a better basic understanding of things. Also see my article on "Establishing your tap water baseline" and give us those numbers at the three intervals. Give us your pH and water temperature ASAP. If your pH is under 7.5, then your 1.0ppm ammonia levels are probably not toxic but ultimately, they will come down to 0.0ppm once your tank is cycled. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. LENNY'S REPLY - I'm not so sure you've improved it although it may appear to be improved. Read on. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... LENNY'S REPLY - How long have the tanks been set up? I'm guessing not long since you said you are a beginner.... we all were at one time! Did you fishless cycle or cycle with fish? Do you understand "The Nitrogen Cycle" and how it works in your tank and filter systems? Were the tanks ever fully cycled? You may be messing up by following the instructions of the PetsMart people or even the filter manufacturers which is a common problem that I see for beginners. If you've read my long article on "Filter Maintenance...", you'll know what I'm talking about here. I see further down that you give your tank stocking and your 10G is overstocked which could be a big part of your problems with that tank. I'll address stocking suggestions following that paragraph. I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! LENNY'S REPLY - It's GREAT that you now have your own master test kit. That will go a long way in helping you "cycle" your tanks properly and start to understand a little more about water chemistry. Most tap water in the USA is treated with Chloramine which will show a slight level of ammonia in your tests since Chloramine is made up of chlorine and ammonia. If your tanks were fully cycled, this would not be an issue as that small amount of ammonia would be taken care of by the nitrifying bacteria (aka bio-filtration) in a properly cycled tank. If your tanks were fully cycled and you did a 25% PWC, you would only be adding 0.25ppm of ammonia which is not very much considering a fully stocked, properly maintained tank handles about 5.0ppm of ammonia per day. So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. LENNY'S REPLY - Why are you still listening to the PetsMart people? Aren't they the main reason you are in the position you are in? Maybe not, but 90% of the issues I see in forums are caused by people listening to pet store employees who do not have a clue on how to keep fish healthy and alive for the long term. There is also a chance that the products they sold you are giving you false readings on your tests. 99% of the JUNK products they sell on the shelves at pet stores simply are NOT needed 99% of the time. While the Zeolite mineral that is used for the ammo chips are OK for emergency situations (1.0ppm of ammonia is NOT an emergency), they will only make your problems worse in the long run. Presuming your tanks are not fully cycled or something happened to put the tanks into mini-cycles, the Zeolite will only be starving your nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia they need to survive and grow a proper sized colony to handle the bioload of your tank(s). Unfortunately, when cycling with fish, or if something happened to your bio-filtration (nitrifying bacteria), you have to allow the ammonia levels to remain between 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm in order to slowly build up the N-bacteria colonies to a size where they can once again handle 5.0ppm per day. Bring back all of the chemicals and filter additives they sold you and get a bottle of Prime which is a dechlor product that also helps make ammonia non-toxic. It will still be an ammonia by-product that the nitrifying bacteria can eat and grow their colonies. All the ammo-chips are doing is sucking up the ammonia which is starving your N-bacteria colonies so you'll never get your tank cycled properly. Also, for some people using ammo-chips or Zeolite based products, if you add salt to the tank, the sale will cause the Zeolite to release ALL of the ammonia which really makes a mess of things quickly (salt is not required with your fish except maybe the guppies but they are not your primary fish so they'll have to get along without the salt). Re-test your tanks daily and post your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and temperature so I can get a firm idea of what is happening in your tanks. What is your pH out the tap? In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! LENNY'S REPLY - You do not need to filter that little bit of ammonia out. All you need to do is get your tanks properly cycled and properly stocked, then you will no longer have ammonia issues. Since you seem to be stuck with "Cycling With Fish", use the Prime as your dechlor product to make the ammonia non-toxic. Once you are fully cycled and you understand what NOT to do that might mess up your N-bacteria, then you can use a simple dechlor product like API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They are the two dechlors that I use for my tanks... preferably the API brand but I can't always find it in stock in the 16 oz. size at my local PetsMart, so I have to get the 8 oz of TopFin's brand as my second most cost effective choice. Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp LENNY'S REPLY - I believe ADF's need at least 2.5G each so just them three kind of fills out the 10G. Definitely remove the tetras and the guppies from the 10G to reduce the bioload on the 10G, especially before the guppies start breeding. You may be able to make it with just the ADF's, the Betta and the Mystery Snails. The ghost shrimps are just un-caught food in the tank. *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. LENNY'S REPLY - The ghost shrimp will likely be future meals so they don't really count. This tank could handle the six neon's and the guppies which would help out your 10G tremendously. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 2:51:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29840	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question

What size tank do you have? Fancy Goldfish need BIG tanks and long-bodied goldfish like comets really should be in a pond or a really BIG tank... 8' long, at least, to give them proper swimming room. They grow to over 12" long. As far as feeding them zucchini, I buy the 1 lb. bag of frozen slices (I guess someone could buy fresh and slice it and freeze it themselves). I then slice through the rind on one side so it cannot become an O-ring that might snag on the fish. I use one of the little amalgam lead-like strips that come on live plants, to weigh down the slice and the fish go to town. They sell suction cup mounted clips that stick to the glass also. Well, they'd probably eat a Filet Mignon if you dropped it in the tank (LOL) but here are healthier human foods for them. Here's a snip from... http://thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html Giving goldfish a variety of fresh and live foods would also mimic their natural feeding behavior more closely. For instance duckweed can be grown in in your other tanks (or even in goldie water in a tub with decent lighting) and fed to goldies daily. If you have hair algae in your other tanks, that can be fed to goldies. Fresh and frozen veggies such as squash, green peas, green beans, various greens, etc are also good additions to the diet as are various fish and shellfish (e.g. cocktail shrimp, clams, whitefish, sardines, herring, salmon, etc). Culturing redworms, daphnia, mosquito larvae, midge fly larvae, blackworms, freshwater shrimp or snails could be potential sources of live foods. END SNIP Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 3:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question I have 1 comet goldfish and I am wondering if I should get her a Male or Female companion..............We had a male and he chased her constantly..I am still new to this stuff. Also I have been reading about feeding zucchini and other foods, how do you suspend these, so they're safe for the fish? TIA Janis _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 4:44:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29841	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

While shrimps will eat some of the missed food and also pick algae off of the glass and plants but the word detritus also includes fish poop, decaying stuff, etc. and nothing that we can keep in our normal tanks will eat fish poop. There is one fish species called a Scat that does eat it and I've seen my Mystery snails nibbling on my goldfish poop before.. EWWW! LOL (goldfish have small digestive systems so what comes out is mostly what went in so it's not like most other fish poop). Bettas are carnivores so they will likely eat the shrimp when the opportunity arises... especially if/when the shrimp are molting. You can make a little shrimp cave using a piece of clay pot so the shrimp can hide inside the cave when they are molting. I think the gourami species are mostly carnivores as well... although I'm sure some are omnivores. No, you do not need aquarium salt, although since you seem to be cycling right now, in both of your tanks, a pinch of regular table salt will be good for both tanks to help prevent nitrite poisoning once you get past the ammonia stage of cycling. When you do a 25% PWC, just add a 25% pinch of salt to replace what you removed with the PWC. In my A to Z page, I have a list of articles about whether to salt or not to salt freshwater fish tanks and the growing consensus mostly agrees with me that you should not use salt except for treating a problem in the tank. Aquarium salt is just the same thing we put on our food, Sodium Chloride - NaCl ... but sold for about 100 times the price. Now, there are things like Marine Salt that does have a lot more to it but it's not typically needed in a FW tank either. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 4:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Hey Lenny, WOW! That was a reply! Thanks :D. I will do the tests and report back the results for you so you can see what's up. I actually have read your tutorials, but its usually late at nite and maybe I missed a few parts of the info if I dozed off. I will review the info again. My tanks are about 3 mos. Old approx? My cycling was with fish, I guess its still cycling. I was more clueless back then, ay ay ay! Guess I still am. So I don't need to add aquarium salt at all then? I guess I will take all that stuff back and look for Prime, sounds good. As for your restocking suggestion, earlier today I did a test with the guppies, I put them in the big 55 G tank and my Female Bettas ganged up on them. As soon as I saw one get nipped, I scooped them out, and that took all of 4 seconds, so I guess they can't go. Weird how the Male doesn't bother them right? I will prob. Have to upgrade my 10 G once they start breeding I suppose, I wanted to anyway. Do you really think my Ghost shrimp won't last? None of my fish seem interested in them, although the Betta did eat 3 of the baby Guppies that were smaller. Don't the shrimp eat detritus? I know Amanos do, but do these? I will definitely move out the Neon Tetras, they're a challenge to catch though! Thanks so much for your help, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:51:10 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water I'm going to answer with "LENNY'S REPLY" following each paragraph below, since you have a lot of questions. You also NEED to go to my blog and read my long article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as I suspect some of your problems are related to that. Also go to my "A to Z of Fish Keeping..." page and read up on Cycling With Fish (link near the top) and take one or both of the FREE online fish keeping tutorials so you'll have a better basic understanding of things. Also see my article on "Establishing your tap water baseline" and give us those numbers at the three intervals. Give us your pH and water temperature ASAP. If your pH is under 7.5, then your 1.0ppm ammonia levels are probably not toxic but ultimately, they will come down to 0.0ppm once your tank is cycled. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. LENNY'S REPLY - I'm not so sure you've improved it although it may appear to be improved. Read on. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... LENNY'S REPLY - How long have the tanks been set up? I'm guessing not long since you said you are a beginner.... we all were at one time! Did you fishless cycle or cycle with fish? Do you understand "The Nitrogen Cycle" and how it works in your tank and filter systems? Were the tanks ever fully cycled? You may be messing up by following the instructions of the PetsMart people or even the filter manufacturers which is a common problem that I see for beginners. If you've read my long article on "Filter Maintenance...", you'll know what I'm talking about here. I see further down that you give your tank stocking and your 10G is overstocked which could be a big part of your problems with that tank. I'll address stocking suggestions following that paragraph. I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! LENNY'S REPLY - It's GREAT that you now have your own master test kit. That will go a long way in helping you "cycle" your tanks properly and start to understand a little more about water chemistry. Most tap water in the USA is treated with Chloramine which will show a slight level of ammonia in your tests since Chloramine is made up of chlorine and ammonia. If your tanks were fully cycled, this would not be an issue as that small amount of ammonia would be taken care of by the nitrifying bacteria (aka bio-filtration) in a properly cycled tank. If your tanks were fully cycled and you did a 25% PWC, you would only be adding 0.25ppm of ammonia which is not very much considering a fully stocked, properly maintained tank handles about 5.0ppm of ammonia per day. So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. LENNY'S REPLY - Why are you still listening to the PetsMart people? Aren't they the main reason you are in the position you are in? Maybe not, but 90% of the issues I see in forums are caused by people listening to pet store employees who do not have a clue on how to keep fish healthy and alive for the long term. There is also a chance that the products they sold you are giving you false readings on your tests. 99% of the JUNK products they sell on the shelves at pet stores simply are NOT needed 99% of the time. While the Zeolite mineral that is used for the ammo chips are OK for emergency situations (1.0ppm of ammonia is NOT an emergency), they will only make your problems worse in the long run. Presuming your tanks are not fully cycled or something happened to put the tanks into mini-cycles, the Zeolite will only be starving your nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia they need to survive and grow a proper sized colony to handle the bioload of your tank(s). Unfortunately, when cycling with fish, or if something happened to your bio-filtration (nitrifying bacteria), you have to allow the ammonia levels to remain between 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm in order to slowly build up the N-bacteria colonies to a size where they can once again handle 5.0ppm per day. Bring back all of the chemicals and filter additives they sold you and get a bottle of Prime which is a dechlor product that also helps make ammonia non-toxic. It will still be an ammonia by-product that the nitrifying bacteria can eat and grow their colonies. All the ammo-chips are doing is sucking up the ammonia which is starving your N-bacteria colonies so you'll never get your tank cycled properly. Also, for some people using ammo-chips or Zeolite based products, if you add salt to the tank, the sale will cause the Zeolite to release ALL of the ammonia which really makes a mess of things quickly (salt is not required with your fish except maybe the guppies but they are not your primary fish so they'll have to get along without the salt). Re-test your tanks daily and post your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and temperature so I can get a firm idea of what is happening in your tanks. What is your pH out the tap? In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! LENNY'S REPLY - You do not need to filter that little bit of ammonia out. All you need to do is get your tanks properly cycled and properly stocked, then you will no longer have ammonia issues. Since you seem to be stuck with "Cycling With Fish", use the Prime as your dechlor product to make the ammonia non-toxic. Once you are fully cycled and you understand what NOT to do that might mess up your N-bacteria, then you can use a simple dechlor product like API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They are the two dechlors that I use for my tanks... preferably the API brand but I can't always find it in stock in the 16 oz. size at my local PetsMart, so I have to get the 8 oz of TopFin's brand as my second most cost effective choice. Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp LENNY'S REPLY - I believe ADF's need at least 2.5G each so just them three kind of fills out the 10G. Definitely remove the tetras and the guppies from the 10G to reduce the bioload on the 10G, especially before the guppies start breeding. You may be able to make it with just the ADF's, the Betta and the Mystery Snails. The ghost shrimps are just un-caught food in the tank. *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. LENNY'S REPLY - The ghost shrimp will likely be future meals so they don't really count. This tank could handle the six neon's and the guppies which would help out your 10G tremendously. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 5:03:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29842	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question

If you want to suspend slices of zuccinni, there are "veggie-clips" available at your LFS -- like large clothes pins on a suction cup. These are often used for Romaine lettuce, but there's no reason they can't be used for any other kind of vegetable. Usually, zuccinni is weighted down to allow it to sink to the bottom. Are you par-boiling it? Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29843	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question

Oops.. Thanks for the reminder Ray. I just realized in my earlier reply, that I failed to mention that I do nuke the frozen slice of zucchini to defrost it. That serves the purpose of par-boiling it first, so it's easier to eat and digest. BTW.. nuking means microwaving it, although I have been experimenting with my own A-bomb for use on par-boiling zucchini slices. I need a bigger underground testing facility though. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 5:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question If you want to suspend slices of zuccinni, there are "veggie-clips" available at your LFS -- like large clothes pins on a suction cup. These are often used for Romaine lettuce, but there's no reason they can't be used for any other kind of vegetable. Usually, zuccinni is weighted down to allow it to sink to the bottom. Are you par-boiling it? Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 5:47:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29844	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Are there gold fish suitable for home aquariums?

Local Petsmart has a display in the store of goldfish in a 30 gallon or so tank; they're urging people to buy pet goldfish. Are there goldfish that really don't grow too big for a 30 gallon aquarium? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29845	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Well and Chlorine Questions

My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. First, I was told by a reputable LFS that city water has so little chlorine-chloramines that it really is not necessary to add a dechlorinator. That is 180 degrees different than what I have been reading on the lists and forums, can it be true? Second, the only test kit for chlorine I could find is a strip, can it be trusted? It's been a week since the well was chlorinated.the strip says the chlorine level is lowest possible reading (safe).like it doesn't register at all. The city water official said he thought it would dissipate in 48 hours, so maybe it's gone already? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29846	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions

Donna, get a copy of your city's water quality report. It will tell how much chorine and chloramines it adds. It would be astounding if there weren't really enough chlorine to need to treat it. It woul'dn't be safe to drink. I dont know if chlorine dissipates from a well or not. I know my father also threw chlorox down the well once in a great while. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:21 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. First, I was told by a reputable LFS that city water has so little chlorine-chloramines that it really is not necessary to add a dechlorinator. That is 180 degrees different than what I have been reading on the lists and forums, can it be true? Second, the only test kit for chlorine I could find is a strip, can it be trusted? It's been a week since the well was chlorinated.the strip says the chlorine level is lowest possible reading (safe).like it doesn't register at all. The city water official said he thought it would dissipate in 48 hours, so maybe it's gone already? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29847	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Algae (Hair)?

I have a planted tank with these readings: Ammonia=0 Nitrite=0 Nitrate=0 pH=7.8 DH=7 KH=7 Phosphate=0 I know the test kits are good, because my tanks that are NOT planted get WAY different readings, LOL. I’ve been getting algae I think it’s hair algae. Grows in green clouds on rocks, background and substrate. Not on the glass, doesn’t wave in the current. Stays relatively short, like ¼ to ½ inch. Three watts per gallon, and the Vallisneria and Crypts are doing fine (except for snail damage). 6700k lights are on total of 11 hours/day in two photoperiods (on 4, off 6, on 7, off 7). I’m at a loss as to how to get rid of it since there are no Nitrates or Phosphates. I just got the Phosphate test kit today. I’ve heard Excel works, but also that it melts Vallisneria. Suggestions? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29848	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions

Donna, You do pose an interesting question. I've not known a well to be chlorinated for any reason. However, I would think that the chlorine would last only for a few days and certainly be gone within a week. The type of well would be a factor, as well as the particular aquifer you are drawing from. The amount of chlorine added would also factor in. All aquifers have water movement, it may be very slow, but the water moves. There is also a lot of water down there, and the chlorine would dissipate within it, and be virtually immeasurable within a short period of time. Your normal daily use of the water would also reduce the amount of chlorine available. You talk about the municipal water supply. Do you also use that? Chloramines are basically chlorine bonded to ammonia--double trouble in an aquarium. It does not outgas like chlorine does when you let it sit for a period. The water conditioners to remove chloramines break that bond and then treat the chlorine and ammonia so that each is very quickly made non-toxic to your fish. It is my belief that the only safe amount is 0 for chloramines. Chlorine, on the other hand, outgases relatively easily and setting a quantity of water out for a period of 24 hours should be sufficient to reach a harmless level for your fish. Frankly it is easier to use a dechloronator to treat the water before adding it, or as it is added to the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. First, I was told by a reputable LFS that city water has so little chlorine-chloramines that it really is not necessary to add a dechlorinator. That is 180 degrees different than what I have been reading on the lists and forums, can it be true? Second, the only test kit for chlorine I could find is a strip, can it be trusted? It's been a week since the well was chlorinated.the strip says the chlorine level is lowest possible reading (safe).like it doesn't register at all. The city water official said he thought it would dissipate in 48 hours, so maybe it's gone already?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29849	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions

Dora I have a private well. My city’s water report would not apply to my situation. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions Donna, get a copy of your city's water quality report. It will tell how much chorine and chloramines it adds. It would be astounding if there weren't really enough chlorine to need to treat it. It woul'dn't be safe to drink. I dont know if chlorine dissipates from a well or not. I know my father also threw chlorox down the well once in a great while. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:21 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. First, I was told by a reputable LFS that city water has so little chlorine-chloramines that it really is not necessary to add a dechlorinator. That is 180 degrees different than what I have been reading on the lists and forums, can it be true? Second, the only test kit for chlorine I could find is a strip, can it be trusted? It's been a week since the well was chlorinated.the strip says the chlorine level is lowest possible reading (safe).like it doesn't register at all. The city water official said he thought it would dissipate in 48 hours, so maybe it's gone already? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29850	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions

I wonder if it's a new law. We had the well pump replaced 7 years ago and I don't recall the chlorine thing (but I wasn't keeping fish then). And we are so used to chlorine-free water that the sink smelled like a bleach bottle to us the next day. That was my dilemma.the well is 3000 feet deep, but I don't think anyone can know which aquifer it taps into. No I don't use city water. But my husband is a township official, so he asked the local water guy. I guess I'll try a smallish water change on my hospital tank and see how it's inhabitant's do (no one is sick, just keeping the tank cycled). _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions Donna, You do pose an interesting question. I've not known a well to be chlorinated for any reason. However, I would think that the chlorine would last only for a few days and certainly be gone within a week. The type of well would be a factor, as well as the particular aquifer you are drawing from. The amount of chlorine added would also factor in. All aquifers have water movement, it may be very slow, but the water moves. There is also a lot of water down there, and the chlorine would dissipate within it, and be virtually immeasurable within a short period of time. Your normal daily use of the water would also reduce the amount of chlorine available. You talk about the municipal water supply. Do you also use that? Chloramines are basically chlorine bonded to ammonia--double trouble in an aquarium. It does not outgas like chlorine does when you let it sit for a period. The water conditioners to remove chloramines break that bond and then treat the chlorine and ammonia so that each is very quickly made non-toxic to your fish. It is my belief that the only safe amount is 0 for chloramines. Chlorine, on the other hand, outgases relatively easily and setting a quantity of water out for a period of 24 hours should be sufficient to reach a harmless level for your fish. Frankly it is easier to use a dechloronator to treat the water before adding it, or as it is added to the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:21 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. First, I was told by a reputable LFS that city water has so little chlorine-chloramines that it really is not necessary to add a dechlorinator. That is 180 degrees different than what I have been reading on the lists and forums, can it be true? Second, the only test kit for chlorine I could find is a strip, can it be trusted? It's been a week since the well was chlorinated.the strip says the chlorine level is lowest possible reading (safe).like it doesn't register at all. The city water official said he thought it would dissipate in 48 hours, so maybe it's gone already? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29851	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Are there gold fish suitable for home aquariums?

All goldfish, whether the round-bodied fancy type or the long-bodied comets or common goldfish have a very large body mass that is equal to over 500 1" goldfish with some common goldfish being equal to over 1,000 1" goldfish. Fancy goldfish should reach 6" to 8" in length but are much rounder where long bodied goldfish should grow to 12" to 15"+ (for some common goldfish). The fancy goldfish are slow swimmers so they can tolerate a smaller tank where the long bodied goldfish need a much larger/longer tank so they have room to swim. A tank should be at least 6 to 8 times longer than the longest adult sized fish so a 36" tank would be the bottom of the line size for fancy goldfish. Next comes water volume and surface area and the fancy fish need at least 30G per fish and long bodied need at least 50-75G per fish. Since fish put out ammonia during gill function and via urine and since goldfish are such big fish, they put out a lot of ammonia so they need the water volume to further dilute the ammonia levels while the nitrifying bacteria process handles the ammonia during cycling. I think the minimum size tank for two fancy goldfish would be a 4' long 55G tank. I guess if the 30G is at least 3' long and you only had a single fancy goldfish and did weekly PWC's and filter maintenance, it could work. Having 10X of filtration is also best for goldfish to help process all of the ammonia that is created during their normal life functions. Using live plants will further help the water quality issues that result from putting larger fish in smallish tanks. Most people do not like having just one fish so the two fancy goldfish in the 4' long tank is much better to give them adequate swimming room and to lessen the stunting effect that takes place when a supposed-to-be large fish is put in a rather small tank for it's size. My goldfish care sheet on my blog goes into more details with references of the few other good care sheets found on the net and the many bad ones that still exist due to the one-time thought process that fish only grow to the size of their home... not realizing this caused many health issues and shortened the fishes lifespan by a considerable amount. Some care sheets still talk about putting goldfish in a bowl and that's just pathetically bad information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are there gold fish suitable for home aquariums? Local Petsmart has a display in the store of goldfish in a 30 gallon or so tank; they're urging people to buy pet goldfish. Are there goldfish that really don't grow too big for a 30 gallon aquarium? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 9:44:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29852	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

I have not read the rest of the thread yet, but let me offer this suggestion: Try Ultimate distributed by Hikari USA. Follow this link, and it will tell you some about Ultimate, and they have an offer for a one ounce trial bottle as well. http://uskoi.com/ultimate.htm \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions

I have an article on my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.html that includes emails between me and a senior chemist at my public water utility. The federal standards for chlorine, chloramine or other disinfectant is high enough that a dechlor product is DEFINITELY needed... especially for chloramine as it does not break down as quickly as chlorine... that is IF your local water supply is treated with either chlorine or chloramine. Chlorine will usually outgas from the water in 24-48 hours if the water is left standing in an open container where Chloramine will not break down for 7-14 days and then the chlorine would outgas. Using a dechlor product will breakdown the chloramine and then make the chlorine non-toxic immediately while the nitrogen cycle in an established tank will handle the small amount of residual ammonia. In a new tank or a tank that lost it's "cycle", a product like Prime will make the residual ammonia non-toxic. Or is someone unknowingly gets into the hobby and is stuck with "Cycling With Fish", then Prime will work for that situation also to help make the ammonia from the fish non-toxic as well. You can contact your local water utility to find out whether they use chlorine, chloramine or some other disinfectant (like ozone, etc.) Many utilities also publish their annual water quality reports online and I have a link to the U.S. EPA's website on my blog article, near the bottom, that will help you find your local utilities water quality report if they do not publish it on their own. Here it is if Yahoo doesn't break it... http://www.epa.gov/safewater/dwinfo/index.html Don't let the EPA website scare you too much, since 99.99999% of people drink their local water with no negative reaction. After all, people are living a lot longer today than they did 100 years ago when people drank that "natural" stuff that often contained bacteria and parasites that were far more deadly. I suspect that the majority of people who would be attracted to jobs at the EPA lean pretty far to the left on environmental issues and if not kept in check by the higher-up's, we wouldn't be able to do anything in America without the EPA saying it would kill us. LOL I hear that Asprin and Penicillin would never have been approved for medicinal purposes under the current FDA regulations so sometimes these LARGE bureaucratic agencies do more harm than good. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. First, I was told by a reputable LFS that city water has so little chlorine-chloramines that it really is not necessary to add a dechlorinator. That is 180 degrees different than what I have been reading on the lists and forums, can it be true? Second, the only test kit for chlorine I could find is a strip, can it be trusted? It's been a week since the well was chlorinated.the strip says the chlorine level is lowest possible reading (safe).like it doesn't register at all. The city water official said he thought it would dissipate in 48 hours, so maybe it's gone already? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 7:30:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 10:07:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29854	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Live plants create kind of a trilogy of parameters that are needed for optimum plant growth without getting algae. If any of these three parts are off, then you can get algae, stunted plant growth, etc. The trilogy is lighting, plant fertilizers/minerals and carbon dioxide. Since each tank is different, it takes a little experimentation to find the right levels of each... which is why so many people just take the short cut of getting one or more algae eating fish/critters. Chuck's Planted Tanks pages and articles go into more details... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm and his page on Algae http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm indicates that hair algae is sometimes a result from high iron levels in your water or fertilizers and from well water. Do you use well water? Read the entire article for more info. Cut back on the time the lighting is on full strength would be the first thing I would try. Your test results look fine so the easiest thing you can control right off the bat is the lighting. 11 hours is a little excessive, in most cases, and especially using two lighting periods per day is probably not a good thing for your plants or fish and could be causing shock issues for your plants so you may not get optimum growth out of them so they out-compete the algae for available resources. I wonder if this would effect the lifespans of the fish and plants where they are thinking they are living two days for every actual day they are living. Probably not but I wonder. I use Mother Nature as a good example. Most plants, trees, etc.... and especially aquatic plants and fish only get full sunlight for around 6 hours a day. Using a "single" 12 hour daylight span from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., the sun is either rising or setting from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. and then from 4 p.m to 7 p.m. so aquatic plants are not getting nearly as much light during those hours so they really only get bright lighting for the six hours between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m.... of course your location in reference to the equator would change this even more. Some of the higher end modern lighting systems (with multiple bulbs and the even newer LED lighting systems) are starting to give the user programmable control of their lighting where it's not either all on or all off so the user can program the lights to come on at 20%, then slowly raise to 100% and then slowly go back down to 20% and then off. For my own tanks with the good old on/off fluorescent lighting, I only leave the tank lights on for 6 to 8 hours a day (8 hours on the planted tanks) but I have the room lighting on in the morning and evening to mimic natural lighting a little better. If you aren't home for 12 hours a day or more like me, using a timer on a room light and then a second timer on your tank lights would give you this dawn and dusk effect of room lighting with the tank lights only coming on a couple of hours before/after the room lighting is on and off. The room also gets some sunlighting through opaque mini-blinds so it's not direct sunlight but it does provide additional lighting to the room. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? I have a planted tank with these readings: Ammonia=0 Nitrite=0 Nitrate=0 pH=7.8 DH=7 KH=7 Phosphate=0 I know the test kits are good, because my tanks that are NOT planted get WAY different readings, LOL. I’ve been getting algae I think it’s hair algae. Grows in green clouds on rocks, background and substrate. Not on the glass, doesn’t wave in the current. Stays relatively short, like ¼ to ½ inch. Three watts per gallon, and the Vallisneria and Crypts are doing fine (except for snail damage). 6700k lights are on total of 11 hours/day in two photoperiods (on 4, off 6, on 7, off 7). I’m at a loss as to how to get rid of it since there are no Nitrates or Phosphates. I just got the Phosphate test kit today. I’ve heard Excel works, but also that it melts Vallisneria. Suggestions? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 10:39:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29855	From: cin	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

Hi Everyone Just wishing all you guys are safe and well and out of the way of the storm have been watching on Fox news in Australia my prayers are with you all Cheers Cin

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29856	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions

You'll see in my Chlorine-Chloramine blog article that it is mandatory that repaired areas of a potable water line be treated with chlorine to kill anything that might have gotten into the line during the repair. You should be able to flush it out by just running the water for a while, depending on how far away the repair was and how much water was standing in the pipes between the repair and your home. That's how the local utility does it after they make a repair and treat it with a higher dose of chlorine. They flush out that repaired line themselves before putting it back online going to customers. You also reminded me that you are on well water for your planted tanks so you could have a high iron level in the water that could be causing your algae issues. I touched on this in my reply to that post but I couldn't remember your water source. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions I wonder if it's a new law. We had the well pump replaced 7 years ago and I don't recall the chlorine thing (but I wasn't keeping fish then). And we are so used to chlorine-free water that the sink smelled like a bleach bottle to us the next day. That was my dilemma.the well is 3000 feet deep, but I don't think anyone can know which aquifer it taps into. No I don't use city water. But my husband is a township official, so he asked the local water guy. I guess I'll try a smallish water change on my hospital tank and see how it's inhabitant's do (no one is sick, just keeping the tank cycled). _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions Donna, You do pose an interesting question. I've not known a well to be chlorinated for any reason. However, I would think that the chlorine would last only for a few days and certainly be gone within a week. The type of well would be a factor, as well as the particular aquifer you are drawing from. The amount of chlorine added would also factor in. All aquifers have water movement, it may be very slow, but the water moves. There is also a lot of water down there, and the chlorine would dissipate within it, and be virtually immeasurable within a short period of time. Your normal daily use of the water would also reduce the amount of chlorine available. You talk about the municipal water supply. Do you also use that? Chloramines are basically chlorine bonded to ammonia--double trouble in an aquarium. It does not outgas like chlorine does when you let it sit for a period. The water conditioners to remove chloramines break that bond and then treat the chlorine and ammonia so that each is very quickly made non-toxic to your fish. It is my belief that the only safe amount is 0 for chloramines. Chlorine, on the other hand, outgases relatively easily and setting a quantity of water out for a period of 24 hours should be sufficient to reach a harmless level for your fish. Frankly it is easier to use a dechloronator to treat the water before adding it, or as it is added to the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:21 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. First, I was told by a reputable LFS that city water has so little chlorine-chloramines that it really is not necessary to add a dechlorinator. That is 180 degrees different than what I have been reading on the lists and forums, can it be true? Second, the only test kit for chlorine I could find is a strip, can it be trusted? It's been a week since the well was chlorinated.the strip says the chlorine level is lowest possible reading (safe).like it doesn't register at all. The city water official said he thought it would dissipate in 48 hours, so maybe it's gone already? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 8:20:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 10:57:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29857	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

Steve: What specifically is the advantage of using Ultimate? I solve the same problem by just adding a little extra Prime. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 10:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water I have not read the rest of the thread yet, but let me offer this suggestion: Try Ultimate distributed by Hikari USA. Follow this link, and it will tell you some about Ultimate, and they have an offer for a one ounce trial bottle as well. http://uskoi.com/ultimate.htm \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29858	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions

Well, then, you don't have chlorine in your water. Or you shouldn't. DId you say there was a high ammonia level, or have I got your post confused with someone else's? If you have well water, no chlorine, and a high ammonia level, I wonder if something could have died nearby? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions Dora.I have a private well. My city's water report would not apply to my situation. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions Donna, get a copy of your city's water quality report. It will tell how much chorine and chloramines it adds. It would be astounding if there weren't really enough chlorine to need to treat it. It woul'dn't be safe to drink. I dont know if chlorine dissipates from a well or not. I know my father also threw chlorox down the well once in a great while. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:21 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. First, I was told by a reputable LFS that city water has so little chlorine-chloramines that it really is not necessary to add a dechlorinator. That is 180 degrees different than what I have been reading on the lists and forums, can it be true? Second, the only test kit for chlorine I could find is a strip, can it be trusted? It's been a week since the well was chlorinated.the strip says the chlorine level is lowest possible reading (safe).like it doesn't register at all. The city water official said he thought it would dissipate in 48 hours, so maybe it's gone already? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29859	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

\\Steve//, Do you use this? What is the price of this compared to more normal dechlor products? It seems like Ultimate adds a lot of stuff to a tank that might not be needed and uses some language that I am usually suspicious about. I know Hikari is generally a good company but.... (START SNIP) Key Benefits Destroys Chloramines (Destroys??? Sounds like Terminator language. LOL) Removes Ammonia (Where does it remove it to? Just kidding, I know what they mean) Removes Chlorine (Same as above) Detoxifies Nitrite (A better word to use) Detoxifies Heavy Metals (including Copper) (Same as above) Adds Essential Electrolytes (I guess this is OK) Boosts Alkalinity (May not be needed) Replaces Skin Slime-Coat (Usually one or more chemicals that irritates the fish to cause it to create additional slime coat) Reduces Fish Stress (Like Green Tea or meditation? LOL) Instantly "Ages" Water Makes A Safe Environment For Your Aquatic Pets Non-Toxic To Humans, Pets & Aquatic Life (END SNIP) Seachem's Prime also uses the word "Removes" but then further explains what is really happening and because of the added salts and chemicals needed to do these other functions, also adds in that it increases the slime-coat. I guess it's a good way to turn a negative into a positive. Here is Prime's description... (START SNIP) PrimeT is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. PrimeT removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. PrimeT converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank's biofilter. PrimeT may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. PrimeT detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels.PrimeT also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. PrimeT is non-acidic and will not impact pH. PrimeT will not over activate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water. (END SNIP) Prime gets a little rambunctious with their language as well when it talks about detoxifying nitrate... allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them... which isn't really likely. Instead of "Remove", these products should use "Breaks down". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 10:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water I have not read the rest of the thread yet, but let me offer this suggestion: Try Ultimate distributed by Hikari USA. Follow this link, and it will tell you some about Ultimate, and they have an offer for a one ounce trial bottle as well. http://uskoi.com/ultimate.htm <http://uskoi.com/ultimate.htm> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 11:33:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29860	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

I rode out Gustav and Ike missed me so bring on the next one! LOL Do you all get Hurricanes or Typhoons... or does it depend on which side of Australia is getting hit? I know they are the same thing but Hurricanes are Atlantic storms and Typhoons are Pacific storms. Knowing how fiercely independent Australia is, you all might just call them thunderstorms or a little bad weather. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cin Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Hi Everyone Just wishing all you guys are safe and well and out of the way of the storm have been watching on Fox news in Australia my prayers are with you all Cheers Cin _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 11:45:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29861	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions

Or maybe someone is just peeing in the well when you're not looking. LOL Since you didn't catch me, I didn't do it! LOL But more seriously, Donna didn't have the ammonia issue... only the well water and algae questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 11:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions Well, then, you don't have chlorine in your water. Or you shouldn't. DId you say there was a high ammonia level, or have I got your post confused with someone else's? If you have well water, no chlorine, and a high ammonia level, I wonder if something could have died nearby? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions Dora.I have a private well. My city's water report would not apply to my situation. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions Donna, get a copy of your city's water quality report. It will tell how much chorine and chloramines it adds. It would be astounding if there weren't really enough chlorine to need to treat it. It woul'dn't be safe to drink. I dont know if chlorine dissipates from a well or not. I know my father also threw chlorox down the well once in a great while. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:21 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. First, I was told by a reputable LFS that city water has so little chlorine-chloramines that it really is not necessary to add a dechlorinator. That is 180 degrees different than what I have been reading on the lists and forums, can it be true? Second, the only test kit for chlorine I could find is a strip, can it be trusted? It's been a week since the well was chlorinated.the strip says the chlorine level is lowest possible reading (safe).like it doesn't register at all. The city water official said he thought it would dissipate in 48 hours, so maybe it's gone already? [ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 11:47:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29862	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question

Lenny, I am gonna need some help on the A-bomb recipe. Mike In a message dated 9/12/2008 3:47:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: BTW.. nuking means microwaving it, although I have been experimenting with my own A-bomb for use on par-boiling zucchini slices. I need a bigger underground testing facility though. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29863	From: cin	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the top end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june 2007

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern most areas of AU. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cin Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the top end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june 2007 _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29865	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

Dora, If you followed the link I provided, you would find a list that includes: Destroys Chloramines Removes Ammonia Removes Chlorine Detoxifies Nitrite Detoxifies Heavy Metals (including Copper) Adds Essential Electrolytes Boosts Alkalinity Replaces Skin Slime-Coat It was developed by the person who developed AmQuel (not the plus), Novaqua, Polyaqua, etc. If you want a product that just treats chloramines, use ClorAm-X. Do note the warning about test kit usage: Do not use with permanganate-based or chlorite-based treatments. Nessler's total ammonia test will give false, high (or off scale) readings. Winkler dissolved oxygen tests will give false, low (or zero) readings. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Steve: What specifically is the advantage of using Ultimate? I solve the same problem by just adding a little extra Prime. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 10:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water I have not read the rest of the thread yet, but let me offer this suggestion: Try Ultimate distributed by Hikari USA. Follow this link, and it will tell you some about Ultimate, and they have an offer for a one ounce trial bottle as well. http://uskoi.com/ultimate.htm \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29866	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

Lenny, You need to separate the marketing terminology from the truth. Breaking the bond between the chlorine and ammonia is certainly destroying the chloramines, is it not? It actually converts the ammonia to a less toxic form, so you can cycle a tank with it without disturbing the establishment of the bacterial colony development. And so on and so forth. It is interesting that this is the first time I did not add my usual disclaimer to my recommendation, and now all these questions are raised. That's the one where I mention that I know the guy who developed this, as well as the original Amquel, Novaqua, Polyaqua, etc. It is also interesting, in the history of things, that when the patent ran out on Amquel, other products appeared that were also successful in treating ammonia problems, which means they have at least a similar formulation to Amquel, but none of the warnings about the use of test kits that this formulation would require. As for pricing, I could not tell you. I have no idea, I tend to stick with stuff that works, and have a tendency to ignore the cost. Being cheaper does not enter the equation when considering a product. Quality does, and living up to the claims for the product does. I could go into a rant about the price consciousness of Americans and how it harms them, but I'll forego that for the time being. Price is not the be all and end all determining factor as many people think it is. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water \\Steve//, Do you use this? What is the price of this compared to more normal dechlor products? It seems like Ultimate adds a lot of stuff to a tank that might not be needed and uses some language that I am usually suspicious about. I know Hikari is generally a good company but.... (START SNIP) Key Benefits Destroys Chloramines (Destroys??? Sounds like Terminator language. LOL) Removes Ammonia (Where does it remove it to? Just kidding, I know what they mean) Removes Chlorine (Same as above) Detoxifies Nitrite (A better word to use) Detoxifies Heavy Metals (including Copper) (Same as above) Adds Essential Electrolytes (I guess this is OK) Boosts Alkalinity (May not be needed) Replaces Skin Slime-Coat (Usually one or more chemicals that irritates the fish to cause it to create additional slime coat) Reduces Fish Stress (Like Green Tea or meditation? LOL) Instantly "Ages" Water Makes A Safe Environment For Your Aquatic Pets Non-Toxic To Humans, Pets & Aquatic Life (END SNIP) Seachem's Prime also uses the word "Removes" but then further explains what is really happening and because of the added salts and chemicals needed to do these other functions, also adds in that it increases the slime-coat. I guess it's a good way to turn a negative into a positive. Here is Prime's description... (START SNIP) PrimeT is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. PrimeT removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. PrimeT converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank's biofilter. PrimeT may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. PrimeT detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels.PrimeT also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. PrimeT is non-acidic and will not impact pH. PrimeT will not over activate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water. (END SNIP) Prime gets a little rambunctious with their language as well when it talks about detoxifying nitrate... allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them... which isn't really likely. Instead of "Remove", these products should use "Breaks down". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 10:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water I have not read the rest of the thread yet, but let me offer this suggestion: Try Ultimate distributed by Hikari USA. Follow this link, and it will tell you some about Ultimate, and they have an offer for a one ounce trial bottle as well. http://uskoi.com/ultimate.htm <http://uskoi.com/ultimate.htm> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29867	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions

It’s a private well. Someone else has the ammonia, not me. From my original post: My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. The well is over ½ mile deep drilled through solid rock (and other strata). If something dies on the surface it is going to have no impact on this water. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions Well, then, you don't have chlorine in your water. Or you shouldn't. DId you say there was a high ammonia level, or have I got your post confused with someone else's? If you have well water, no chlorine, and a high ammonia level, I wonder if something could have died nearby? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions Dora.I have a private well. My city's water report would not apply to my situation. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions Donna, get a copy of your city's water quality report. It will tell how much chorine and chloramines it adds. It would be astounding if there weren't really enough chlorine to need to treat it. It woul'dn't be safe to drink. I dont know if chlorine dissipates from a well or not. I know my father also threw chlorox down the well once in a great while. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:21 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. First, I was told by a reputable LFS that city water has so little chlorine-chloramines that it really is not necessary to add a dechlorinator. That is 180 degrees different than what I have been reading on the lists and forums, can it be true? Second, the only test kit for chlorine I could find is a strip, can it be trusted? It's been a week since the well was chlorinated.the strip says the chlorine level is lowest possible reading (safe).like it doesn't register at all. The city water official said he thought it would dissipate in 48 hours, so maybe it's gone already? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29868	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Hmmm. The 2 photoperiods was suggested as a way to combat algae as well as allow for more natural production of CO2 without having to add it to the tank. I do use well water, but Nitrates=0 and Phosphates=0. It is also a private 3000 foot deep well drilled through rock. I supposed the aquifer could have fertilizers leaking into it from elsewhere. What is the test for fertilizers other than Nitrates and Phosphates? I could test for iron. If I have that, what would be the remedy? My lights are definitely on a timer. I’ll clean the tank, do a three-day blackout to kill any residual algae and then try the timer on an 8 hour single photoperiod. The period during the day when the tank lights are off, there is still daylight in the room. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Live plants create kind of a trilogy of parameters that are needed for optimum plant growth without getting algae. If any of these three parts are off, then you can get algae, stunted plant growth, etc. The trilogy is lighting, plant fertilizers/minerals and carbon dioxide. Since each tank is different, it takes a little experimentation to find the right levels of each... which is why so many people just take the short cut of getting one or more algae eating fish/critters. Chuck's Planted Tanks pages and articles go into more details... http://www.csd. <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm and his page on Algae http://www.csd. <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm indicates that hair algae is sometimes a result from high iron levels in your water or fertilizers and from well water. Do you use well water? Read the entire article for more info. Cut back on the time the lighting is on full strength would be the first thing I would try. Your test results look fine so the easiest thing you can control right off the bat is the lighting. 11 hours is a little excessive, in most cases, and especially using two lighting periods per day is probably not a good thing for your plants or fish and could be causing shock issues for your plants so you may not get optimum growth out of them so they out-compete the algae for available resources. I wonder if this would effect the lifespans of the fish and plants where they are thinking they are living two days for every actual day they are living. Probably not but I wonder. I use Mother Nature as a good example. Most plants, trees, etc.... and especially aquatic plants and fish only get full sunlight for around 6 hours a day. Using a "single" 12 hour daylight span from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., the sun is either rising or setting from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. and then from 4 p.m to 7 p.m. so aquatic plants are not getting nearly as much light during those hours so they really only get bright lighting for the six hours between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m.... of course your location in reference to the equator would change this even more. Some of the higher end modern lighting systems (with multiple bulbs and the even newer LED lighting systems) are starting to give the user programmable control of their lighting where it's not either all on or all off so the user can program the lights to come on at 20%, then slowly raise to 100% and then slowly go back down to 20% and then off. For my own tanks with the good old on/off fluorescent lighting, I only leave the tank lights on for 6 to 8 hours a day (8 hours on the planted tanks) but I have the room lighting on in the morning and evening to mimic natural lighting a little better. If you aren't home for 12 hours a day or more like me, using a timer on a room light and then a second timer on your tank lights would give you this dawn and dusk effect of room lighting with the tank lights only coming on a couple of hours before/after the room lighting is on and off. The room also gets some sunlighting through opaque mini-blinds so it's not direct sunlight but it does provide additional lighting to the room. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? I have a planted tank with these readings: Ammonia=0 Nitrite=0 Nitrate=0 pH=7.8 DH=7 KH=7 Phosphate=0 I know the test kits are good, because my tanks that are NOT planted get WAY different readings, LOL. I’ve been getting algae I think it’s hair algae. Grows in green clouds on rocks, background and substrate. Not on the glass, doesn’t wave in the current. Stays relatively short, like ¼ to ½ inch. Three watts per gallon, and the Vallisneria and Crypts are doing fine (except for snail damage). 6700k lights are on total of 11 hours/day in two photoperiods (on 4, off 6, on 7, off 7). I’m at a loss as to how to get rid of it since there are no Nitrates or Phosphates. I just got the Phosphate test kit today. I’ve heard Excel works, but also that it melts Vallisneria. Suggestions? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 10:39:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29869	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question

Well, you can start with a dozen habanera peppers, sliced. In a glass pot, cover with Tabasco sauce. Add 1/4 oz of Dave's Limited Edition New Mexico Reserve 2007 (14,000,000 scoville units) and cook until thickened. Add frozen zucchini slices, cook until zucchini is heated through. Add red pepper flakes and chili powder to taste. Serve warm. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question Lenny, I am gonna need some help on the A-bomb recipe. Mike In a message dated 9/12/2008 3:47:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: BTW.. nuking means microwaving it, although I have been experimenting with my own A-bomb for use on par-boiling zucchini slices. I need a bigger underground testing facility though. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29870	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Babies!

My Malawi mbuna have babies every month, so I don't know why I am so excited about this. I have my first Tanganyikan babies! The Caudo's spawned. The babies are tiny, barely visible to the naked eye. I've been trying to think of something to describe the size. They could swim through the eye of a needle with room to spare. The diameter of a hair and 1-2 millimeters long. Smaller than the grains of sand in the tank. Dozens of them. At least there were last night, but still lots this am. The parents hold off the Calvus (fry eaters) who are definitely poised and looking for a weakness in the defensive line. _____________________________________________ From: Donna Ransome [mailto:djransome@...] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 8:19 AM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: Fun Fish Housekeeping Behavior I have a 38G tank with African Cichlids from Lake Tanganyika: Altolamprologus Calvus Inkfin and Lamprologus Caudopunctatus. I watched the tank this morning to identify the architect of a new excavation. It was the smallest Caudo. The fish went into the cave and wiggled vigorously. Came out with a good-sized snail with it's lips (the snail was about 5X too big to fit inside the mouth of the fish). Carried the snail over to the corner of the tank and unceremoniously spit the snail into the corner! I guess the wiggling was necessary because the live snail did not want to let go, LOL. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29871	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question

Thanks I have a 46 gallon tank In a message dated 9/12/2008 5:45:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: What size tank do you have? Fancy Goldfish need BIG tanks and long-bodied goldfish like comets really should be in a pond or a really BIG tank... 8' long, at least, to give them proper swimming room. They grow to over 12" long. Recent Activity * 12 _New Members_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcTJ0b3FxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2d GwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMjEyNTU5MDk-) * 14 _New Photos_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZHRsNHNqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwE c2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEyMjEyNTU5MDk-) _Visit Your Group _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaW8zMmk3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGw Ec2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIyMTI1NTkwOQ--) Sell Online _Start selling with_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13op026he/M=493064.12016255.12445662.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1221263109/L=/B=G.EfAkL aX.w-/J=1221255909942974/A=4025291/R=0/SIG=12bsapn24/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/e vt=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/merchant) our award-winning e-commerce tools. Check out the _Y! Groups blog_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13otobd0e/M=493064.12016258.12582637.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1221263109/L=/B=HOEfAkLaX.w -/J=1221255909942974/A=5191952/R=0/SIG=112mhte3e/*http://www.ygroupsblog.com/b log/) Stay up to speed on all things Groups! Best of Y! Groups _Discover groups_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13ovotam0/M=493064.12016306.12445698.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1221263109/L=/B=HeEfAkLaX. w-/J=1221255909942974/A=4763762/R=0/SIG=11ou7otip/*http://advision.webevents.y ahoo.com/bestofyahoogroups/) that are the best of their class. . **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29872	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Babies!

Donna, Congratulations on the Neolamprologus caudopunctatus spawn. Keep an eye on those Calvus; hopefully the "Caudo's" will continue to hold them off -- (but for how long?). Regards, Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29873	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Donna, Be aware that all tanks have algae, whether you can see it or not. Some people use it as a decorative aspect of their tanks, when it grows as you are describing. This is not necessarily a bad thing. The algae will become home to many small critters that will serve as a food source for some fish and the algae itself will be grazed upon by those fish who want some veggie in their diet. The real problem is to not let the algae get out of hand. You may want to send a sample of your water to a testing laboratory to have a relatively complete analysis done for the more common tests, such as iron and manganese, Coliform bacteria, pH, alkalinity, etc. It may save you a bit of money in the long run, and alert you to parameters you may wish to keep an eye on. Adding more plantings to your tank will also help to control the algae in your tank, as the plants can out-compete the algae for nutrients, and you can reach a balance where the algae will no longer expand, or even decrease without you needing to do anything. This is a relatively slow process however, and probably would require you to change your thinking about algae a bit, so you see some algae as being a good thing rather than a bad thing. Now, don't get me wrong, some algae is not a good thing and may indicate a problem in your tank, but the algae you describe seems to be a relatively benign form and can be seen as a "good" algae. If you really want to get rid of it, you may wish to follow the suggestions that some of the others are giving you, I really can't help you as I have not tried to do so since I was a kid many moons ago (though some opinions on this may differ from my own). Just be careful how you do it so that no other plants or animals are harmed in the process. Algaecides are not a real good way to remove algae, so you simple (ha!, he said simply, who is he kidding) need to try to alter some of your water parameters. This would need to be approached with caution so that you overall water quality is not affected. If you go to www.aquatic-gardeners.org, and look at some of the pictures there, very carefully, you will note that many of the tanks shown not only have beautiful plant growth, but there is some algae growing as well on some of the surfaces. Not a bad thing at all. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Hmmm. The 2 photoperiods was suggested as a way to combat algae as well as allow for more natural production of CO2 without having to add it to the tank. I do use well water, but Nitrates=0 and Phosphates=0. It is also a private 3000 foot deep well drilled through rock. I supposed the aquifer could have fertilizers leaking into it from elsewhere. What is the test for fertilizers other than Nitrates and Phosphates? I could test for iron. If I have that, what would be the remedy? My lights are definitely on a timer. I'll clean the tank, do a three-day blackout to kill any residual algae and then try the timer on an 8 hour single photoperiod. The period during the day when the tank lights are off, there is still daylight in the room. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Live plants create kind of a trilogy of parameters that are needed for optimum plant growth without getting algae. If any of these three parts are off, then you can get algae, stunted plant growth, etc. The trilogy is lighting, plant fertilizers/minerals and carbon dioxide. Since each tank is different, it takes a little experimentation to find the right levels of each... which is why so many people just take the short cut of getting one or more algae eating fish/critters. Chuck's Planted Tanks pages and articles go into more details... http://www.csd. <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm and his page on Algae http://www.csd. <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm indicates that hair algae is sometimes a result from high iron levels in your water or fertilizers and from well water. Do you use well water? Read the entire article for more info. Cut back on the time the lighting is on full strength would be the first thing I would try. Your test results look fine so the easiest thing you can control right off the bat is the lighting. 11 hours is a little excessive, in most cases, and especially using two lighting periods per day is probably not a good thing for your plants or fish and could be causing shock issues for your plants so you may not get optimum growth out of them so they out-compete the algae for available resources. I wonder if this would effect the lifespans of the fish and plants where they are thinking they are living two days for every actual day they are living. Probably not but I wonder. I use Mother Nature as a good example. Most plants, trees, etc.... and especially aquatic plants and fish only get full sunlight for around 6 hours a day. Using a "single" 12 hour daylight span from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., the sun is either rising or setting from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. and then from 4 p.m to 7 p.m. so aquatic plants are not getting nearly as much light during those hours so they really only get bright lighting for the six hours between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m.... of course your location in reference to the equator would change this even more. Some of the higher end modern lighting systems (with multiple bulbs and the even newer LED lighting systems) are starting to give the user programmable control of their lighting where it's not either all on or all off so the user can program the lights to come on at 20%, then slowly raise to 100% and then slowly go back down to 20% and then off. For my own tanks with the good old on/off fluorescent lighting, I only leave the tank lights on for 6 to 8 hours a day (8 hours on the planted tanks) but I have the room lighting on in the morning and evening to mimic natural lighting a little better. If you aren't home for 12 hours a day or more like me, using a timer on a room light and then a second timer on your tank lights would give you this dawn and dusk effect of room lighting with the tank lights only coming on a couple of hours before/after the room lighting is on and off. The room also gets some sunlighting through opaque mini-blinds so it's not direct sunlight but it does provide additional lighting to the room. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? I have a planted tank with these readings: Ammonia=0 Nitrite=0 Nitrate=0 pH=7.8 DH=7 KH=7 Phosphate=0 I know the test kits are good, because my tanks that are NOT planted get WAY different readings, LOL. I've been getting algae...I think it's hair algae. Grows in green clouds on rocks, background and substrate. Not on the glass, doesn't wave in the current. Stays relatively short, like ¼ to ½ inch. Three watts per gallon, and the Vallisneria and Crypts are doing fine (except for snail damage). 6700k lights are on total of 11 hours/day in two photoperiods (on 4, off 6, on 7, off 7). I'm at a loss as to how to get rid of it since there are no Nitrates or Phosphates. I just got the Phosphate test kit today. I've heard Excel works, but also that it melts Vallisneria. Suggestions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29874	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Babies!

Thanks. I don't have room for them all, but I'm hoping for a survivor or two. Next year when the Tangs are in the six foot tank.the various fry may have more of a chance. If I could only solve the snail/algae problem before then so it doesn't occur on a larger scale! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Babies! Donna, Congratulations on the Neolamprologus caudopunctatus spawn. Keep an eye on those Calvus; hopefully the "Caudo's" will continue to hold them off -- (but for how long?). Regards, Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29875	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions

Hi Donna, There are a number of issues here that everyone seems to be missing. Under NORMAL circumstances, yes, chlorine will dissipate of it own accord in approximately 48 hours, at room temperature -- in normal atmospheric conditions. In situations where a gas (any gas) is in concentrations at the surface (above) of the water, such conditions will not allow for rapid dissipations of the same gas and can induce further concentrations of the gas to be dissolved in the water column up to the water's potential to hold that gas at the temperature it is presently at. In effect, if this gas were CO2, concentrated above the surface of the water, any off-gassing of dissolved CO2 in the water would be greatly slowed down. On the other hand, let's say for instance that for some arbitrary reason your aquariums water surface had nothing but pure nitrogen over the surface instead of regular atmosphere, any other gases (CO2, Oxygen, etc.) would very soon dissipate from the water beneath this, not to be replaced with anything other than nitrogen. Back to NORMAL circumstances, but with the aid of aeration, dissipation of chlorine from the water will be speeded up. Again, at room temperature, this gas will now dissipate at around 24 hours. Do note -- that these time figures are directly dependant on the "normal" amount of chlorine that the water company uses -- the higher the concentration -- the longer it will take to dissipate -- and again, I'm referring to room temperature. Do note too -- that Chloramine does not dissipate very rapidly at all, and will still be in lethal concentrations in the aquarium after a minimum period of 3 weeks, if an agent is not used to break it down. As we know, the ability of water to hold any gas is proportionate to its temperature. Your 3000' well's water must have a temperatute of approximately 48 o or so, I am guessing, maybe lower. As such, it will hold a much greater quantity of any gas, including chlorine. With nothing but the first off-gassings of the gas over the surface of your well water, its propensity to further off-gas any more chlorine will be greatly reduced -- and that's if its not pressurized at this depth. Any pressurization will aid in retaining the chlorine in this water. You'd need to first pump out as much water from this well as possible, as you take periodic test readings for the chlorine content. Then, to play it safe, even with any possible small residual amounts of chlorine left, I'd use a chlorine neutralizer temporarily, until you know its safe. I keep one side of a double utility tub, that I have in my hatchery for its use, filled with heavily chlorinated water (with the use of bleach). As I know this will dissipate after 3 or 4 days, depending upon its concentration, I test for it every couple of days to know when I need to add more. I find a liquid swimming pool chlorine test kit (such as hth brand) to be my greatest asset in this regard. Its range is from 0.4 ppm to 3.0 ppm. I try to maintain it above the 3.0 ppm to bathe my nets, Angelfish slates, fish collecting containers and hatching jars, etc., to eliminate the possible spread of any disease and keep fungus at an absolute minimum. You may want to try one of these kits, even though the lowest it tests is 0.4 ppm. At least it will give you some ball-park idea of how safe the water is, then you can add your dechlorinator accordingly. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29876	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Oh it’s out of hand. It plugs up the intake for the filter and my Python during water changes (I have to stop the suction and clear the hose 3X before I can complete a water change on a 38G tank). I’d rather have the type that grows on the glass because it is easily scraped off and swished away with the Python during weekly water changes. I’ll try reducing the lights. I can’t identify a fish that will eat hair algae that would not be harmed by adding it to my tank. The current inhabitants are carnivores so they don’t even nibble. I’ll test for iron, but I still need the remedy if I’ve got it, LOL. When I move this community to the six foot tank, I may add a group of SAE, but the current tank is too small for them. Thanks Steve. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, Be aware that all tanks have algae, whether you can see it or not. Some people use it as a decorative aspect of their tanks, when it grows as you are describing. This is not necessarily a bad thing. The algae will become home to many small critters that will serve as a food source for some fish and the algae itself will be grazed upon by those fish who want some veggie in their diet. The real problem is to not let the algae get out of hand. You may want to send a sample of your water to a testing laboratory to have a relatively complete analysis done for the more common tests, such as iron and manganese, Coliform bacteria, pH, alkalinity, etc. It may save you a bit of money in the long run, and alert you to parameters you may wish to keep an eye on. Adding more plantings to your tank will also help to control the algae in your tank, as the plants can out-compete the algae for nutrients, and you can reach a balance where the algae will no longer expand, or even decrease without you needing to do anything. This is a relatively slow process however, and probably would require you to change your thinking about algae a bit, so you see some algae as being a good thing rather than a bad thing. Now, don't get me wrong, some algae is not a good thing and may indicate a problem in your tank, but the algae you describe seems to be a relatively benign form and can be seen as a "good" algae. If you really want to get rid of it, you may wish to follow the suggestions that some of the others are giving you, I really can't help you as I have not tried to do so since I was a kid many moons ago (though some opinions on this may differ from my own). Just be careful how you do it so that no other plants or animals are harmed in the process. Algaecides are not a real good way to remove algae, so you simple (ha!, he said simply, who is he kidding) need to try to alter some of your water parameters. This would need to be approached with caution so that you overall water quality is not affected. If you go to www.aquatic-gardeners.org, and look at some of the pictures there, very carefully, you will note that many of the tanks shown not only have beautiful plant growth, but there is some algae growing as well on some of the surfaces. Not a bad thing at all. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:05 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Hmmm. The 2 photoperiods was suggested as a way to combat algae as well as allow for more natural production of CO2 without having to add it to the tank. I do use well water, but Nitrates=0 and Phosphates=0. It is also a private 3000 foot deep well drilled through rock. I supposed the aquifer could have fertilizers leaking into it from elsewhere. What is the test for fertilizers other than Nitrates and Phosphates? I could test for iron. If I have that, what would be the remedy? My lights are definitely on a timer. I'll clean the tank, do a three-day blackout to kill any residual algae and then try the timer on an 8 hour single photoperiod. The period during the day when the tank lights are off, there is still daylight in the room. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Live plants create kind of a trilogy of parameters that are needed for optimum plant growth without getting algae. If any of these three parts are off, then you can get algae, stunted plant growth, etc. The trilogy is lighting, plant fertilizers/minerals and carbon dioxide. Since each tank is different, it takes a little experimentation to find the right levels of each... which is why so many people just take the short cut of getting one or more algae eating fish/critters. Chuck's Planted Tanks pages and articles go into more details... http://www.csd. <http://www.csd. <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm and his page on Algae http://www.csd. <http://www.csd. <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm indicates that hair algae is sometimes a result from high iron levels in your water or fertilizers and from well water. Do you use well water? Read the entire article for more info. Cut back on the time the lighting is on full strength would be the first thing I would try. Your test results look fine so the easiest thing you can control right off the bat is the lighting. 11 hours is a little excessive, in most cases, and especially using two lighting periods per day is probably not a good thing for your plants or fish and could be causing shock issues for your plants so you may not get optimum growth out of them so they out-compete the algae for available resources. I wonder if this would effect the lifespans of the fish and plants where they are thinking they are living two days for every actual day they are living. Probably not but I wonder. I use Mother Nature as a good example. Most plants, trees, etc.... and especially aquatic plants and fish only get full sunlight for around 6 hours a day. Using a "single" 12 hour daylight span from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., the sun is either rising or setting from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. and then from 4 p.m to 7 p.m. so aquatic plants are not getting nearly as much light during those hours so they really only get bright lighting for the six hours between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m.... of course your location in reference to the equator would change this even more. Some of the higher end modern lighting systems (with multiple bulbs and the even newer LED lighting systems) are starting to give the user programmable control of their lighting where it's not either all on or all off so the user can program the lights to come on at 20%, then slowly raise to 100% and then slowly go back down to 20% and then off. For my own tanks with the good old on/off fluorescent lighting, I only leave the tank lights on for 6 to 8 hours a day (8 hours on the planted tanks) but I have the room lighting on in the morning and evening to mimic natural lighting a little better. If you aren't home for 12 hours a day or more like me, using a timer on a room light and then a second timer on your tank lights would give you this dawn and dusk effect of room lighting with the tank lights only coming on a couple of hours before/after the room lighting is on and off. The room also gets some sunlighting through opaque mini-blinds so it's not direct sunlight but it does provide additional lighting to the room. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? I have a planted tank with these readings: Ammonia=0 Nitrite=0 Nitrate=0 pH=7.8 DH=7 KH=7 Phosphate=0 I know the test kits are good, because my tanks that are NOT planted get WAY different readings, LOL. I've been getting algae...I think it's hair algae. Grows in green clouds on rocks, background and substrate. Not on the glass, doesn't wave in the current. Stays relatively short, like ¼ to ½ inch. Three watts per gallon, and the Vallisneria and Crypts are doing fine (except for snail damage). 6700k lights are on total of 11 hours/day in two photoperiods (on 4, off 6, on 7, off 7). I'm at a loss as to how to get rid of it since there are no Nitrates or Phosphates. I just got the Phosphate test kit today. I've heard Excel works, but also that it melts Vallisneria. Suggestions? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29877	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Donna, Unless you have large populations of aquarium plants (and do lots of PWC's), its near impossible to have exactly 0 amounts of nitrate, as this is constantly be created via the nitrogen cycle. As (unless your test results are showing you erroneous readings) your nitrates do seem to be at a very minimal level, you have a very healthy tank situation going on there for your fish. Now to address your hair algae problem, first as Lenny pointed out, your lighting duration is excessive -- whether broken up into two periods during the day or not. The tank is still receiving 11 hours of direct lighting, on top of any diffused room lighting you're mentioning. If the artificial (direct -- tank light) lighting is employed outside of the normal daylight period of diffused room lighting (very early morning, late evening) this will have an even greater effect n the total lighting received rather than having the tank lights on just during the daylight hours. As you made mention of, yes, Flourish Excel has deleterious effects on Valisneria (and also on Elodea, and other like delicate plants). As an alternative, you might consider trying Hydrogen Peroxide with judicial use of this agent in ridding the tank of this nuisance, as it will work and is used by aquarists for this purpose. The normal dosage to use is not to exceed 2 Tbs per 10 gallons -- mixed thoroughly before adding, and distributed widely as it is added to prevent any concentrated pockets of it; still, this is to be considered an extremely weak solution affecting nothing more than lower forms of plant life. Be aware that it is an oxygenator, and should always be used with caution because of that; as such, I would go with half that strength to start out with, to avoid any possible problems with the more delicate aquatic plants (Val), and go from there. If you prefer not to approach that half-concentration-solution, you may use an eye dropper, having only 2 teaspoons of Peroxide on hand for each 10 gallons of aquarium water, and apply (squirt) small amounts of this directly on this algae. Peroxide is very unstable and will very soon break down into water and free oxygen. What algae you don't eliminate with the first try, you can repeat this process certainly by the following day to feel safe (actually much sooner), as it really breaks down completely well within 20 minutes. The main caution you need to take is not to get this product too near your fish in its full strength. As this extremely minimal amount of it is spread throughout the water, its already breaking down, but besides that its so diluted at that point that its likely it would not even be effective in killing bacteria. Its often safely used in aquariums because of these reasons; I've used it myself, and have known many others to use it, but feel I need to throw this caution out there for the awareness of all. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29878	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question

Mmmmmm... making me hungry now! I bet that would be good on my corn flakes this morning! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question Well, you can start with a dozen habanera peppers, sliced. In a glass pot, cover with Tabasco sauce. Add 1/4 oz of Dave's Limited Edition New Mexico Reserve 2007 (14,000,000 scoville units) and cook until thickened. Add frozen zucchini slices, cook until zucchini is heated through. Add red pepper flakes and chili powder to taste. Serve warm. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question Lenny, I am gonna need some help on the A-bomb recipe. Mike In a message dated 9/12/2008 3:47:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: BTW.. nuking means microwaving it, although I have been experimenting with my own A-bomb for use on par-boiling zucchini slices. I need a bigger underground testing facility though. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ <http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_> (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> ) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 9:31:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29879	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29880	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

OK so critique this plan: 1-Clean tank, removing as many snails and as much algae as possible. 2-Three day black out to kill remaining algae spores or whatever 3-Reduce lighting to 8 hours daily 4-Use Hydrogen Peroxide for any flare-ups thereafter I have to be careful with the cleaning as my new Caudo babies are tiny. I'll avoid their corner and check the siphon bucket before dumping. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, Unless you have large populations of aquarium plants (and do lots of PWC's), its near impossible to have exactly 0 amounts of nitrate, as this is constantly be created via the nitrogen cycle. As (unless your test results are showing you erroneous readings) your nitrates do seem to be at a very minimal level, you have a very healthy tank situation going on there for your fish. Now to address your hair algae problem, first as Lenny pointed out, your lighting duration is excessive -- whether broken up into two periods during the day or not. The tank is still receiving 11 hours of direct lighting, on top of any diffused room lighting you're mentioning. If the artificial (direct -- tank light) lighting is employed outside of the normal daylight period of diffused room lighting (very early morning, late evening) this will have an even greater effect n the total lighting received rather than having the tank lights on just during the daylight hours. As you made mention of, yes, Flourish Excel has deleterious effects on Valisneria (and also on Elodea, and other like delicate plants). As an alternative, you might consider trying Hydrogen Peroxide with judicial use of this agent in ridding the tank of this nuisance, as it will work and is used by aquarists for this purpose. The normal dosage to use is not to exceed 2 Tbs per 10 gallons -- mixed thoroughly before adding, and distributed widely as it is added to prevent any concentrated pockets of it; still, this is to be considered an extremely weak solution affecting nothing more than lower forms of plant life. Be aware that it is an oxygenator, and should always be used with caution because of that; as such, I would go with half that strength to start out with, to avoid any possible problems with the more delicate aquatic plants (Val), and go from there. If you prefer not to approach that half-concentration-solution, you may use an eye dropper, having only 2 teaspoons of Peroxide on hand for each 10 gallons of aquarium water, and apply (squirt) small amounts of this directly on this algae. Peroxide is very unstable and will very soon break down into water and free oxygen. What algae you don't eliminate with the first try, you can repeat this process certainly by the following day to feel safe (actually much sooner), as it really breaks down completely well within 20 minutes. The main caution you need to take is not to get this product too near your fish in its full strength. As this extremely minimal amount of it is spread throughout the water, its already breaking down, but besides that its so diluted at that point that its likely it would not even be effective in killing bacteria. Its often safely used in aquariums because of these reasons; I've used it myself, and have known many others to use it, but feel I need to throw this caution out there for the awareness of all. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29881	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question

I called Petsmart and checked on that goldfish display. It's a hundred gallon tank. It does say on top goldfish, but that's allegedly because they can't change it. The tank actually contains five cichlids. She admitted to me that goldfish need alot of room - because they get up to 6 to 8 inches long and make alot of mess, which means they need 2 gallons/ inch. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <jan1213@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question Thanks I have a 46 gallon tank In a message dated 9/12/2008 5:45:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: What size tank do you have? Fancy Goldfish need BIG tanks and long-bodied goldfish like comets really should be in a pond or a really BIG tank... 8' long, at least, to give them proper swimming room. They grow to over 12" long. Recent Activity * 12 _New Members_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcTJ0b3FxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2d GwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMjEyNTU5MDk-) * 14 _New Photos_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZHRsNHNqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwE c2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEyMjEyNTU5MDk-) _Visit Your Group _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaW8zMmk3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGw Ec2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIyMTI1NTkwOQ--) Sell Online _Start selling with_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13op026he/M=493064.12016255.12445662.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1221263109/L=/B=G.EfAkL aX.w-/J=1221255909942974/A=4025291/R=0/SIG=12bsapn24/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/e vt=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/merchant) our award-winning e-commerce tools. Check out the _Y! Groups blog_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13otobd0e/M=493064.12016258.12582637.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1221263109/L=/B=HOEfAkLaX.w -/J=1221255909942974/A=5191952/R=0/SIG=112mhte3e/*http://www.ygroupsblog.com/b log/) Stay up to speed on all things Groups! Best of Y! Groups _Discover groups_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13ovotam0/M=493064.12016306.12445698.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1221263109/L=/B=HeEfAkLaX. w-/J=1221255909942974/A=4763762/R=0/SIG=11ou7otip/*http://advision.webevents.y ahoo.com/bestofyahoogroups/) that are the best of their class. . **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29882	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: My danio jumped out of its container and I stepped on it

And it's still living. I bought three danios to replace one that I accidentally killed while cleaning the tank the other day. Male danios have a real penchent for trouble and I'm down to five adult females and two juvenile males in my tank. I have the fish in a plastic tub with a bubbler while I acclimate them to the tank water. I come back in the room and only two fish are in the tub. Now, tub is in the middle of the desk, and the keyboard and keybaord tray between the tub and the floor, the top of the water reaches to an inch and a half below the top of the tub, and the fish had to clear two inches in addition because the tub is sitting in a plastic bowl in order to not tip over. So I'm looking all over the place. Where is hte third fish? Third fish turns out ot be on the floor, under my foot. I put fish in the water - and it quickly revives and starts swimming! I put in a couple of drops of stress coat. Is there anything else I should do for the fish? I can't tell if it's hurt. If a giant stepped on me, I'd be hurt. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29883	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

Since "brown algae" isn't really algae anyhow, I'm sure it's not going to look like algae under a microscope. Diatoms are microscopic critters that form on surface areas of a tank and use the silicates in the water to build little shells around them which are brown in most cases in FW aquaria but can be many different colors in SW http://bio1903.nicerweb.com/Locked/media/lab/diversity/protista/img/Diatoms. jpg. Since they form on surfaces like many algae do, people thought they were a "brown algae" until it was later learned what they truly were. Here's a long article all about "brown algae" with links to university websites with microscopic pics for you to compare. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml They usually diminish as a visible issue after a few months in a new tank as the overall ecology of the tank forms and out competes them for resources. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST <http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST> Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 12:57:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:22:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29884	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Actually, two days ago I had a zero level of nitrates, and yesterday I had a zero level of phosphates, all due apparently to an outbreak of brown algae (or whatever that stuff is - I posted a link to photos of it under a microscope). I had the tank fully cycled, have been busy, and had neglected the tank just a little, which means I did only a couple of 10% water changes in the course of a week. This is particularly remarkable since the tap water tested at between .5 and 1.0 ppm of phosphates, which is consistent with the water quality report that says it's between .75 and 1.0 ppm. Mind you, this was the day AFTER I did a 50% water change and cleaned the brown algae off the tank decorations. Two days ago I had done a 50% water change with a proper gravel cleaning, took out all the plastic plants and decorations, and wiped off as much as I could of the brown algae. Today the tank's phosphate level is barely perceptibly higher than that of the tap water, the nitrate level is its normal 5.0, and the ammonia level, which has been running at 0, is .25. Nitrites are 0 and usually are. I am assuming that the cleaning set back the tank cycling. I did rinse out the filter media while I was at it. Maybe microalgae can't grow in ammonia, I don't know. However, I am fairly sure that it was the microalgae (if that's what it is) that did away with the nitrates and the phosphates. What I'm reading on brown algae is that the brown coating is composed of dead skeletons; so what you dont see, I suppose, is the healthy ones swimming around in the water. Many of them atleast initially survived the tank cleaning and the 50% water change. But they may have died off not only because I cleaned the tank well and reduced their food supply, but because I added a copule of cupfuls of stress coat because one of the danios died and the others were turning pale from the stress. Fish don't like their tank cleaned. Stress coat not only contains ingredients to help fish stress, it neutralizes nitrogen waste products and could ahve caused a bacteria die off, leading to an algae die off (though thankfully not alot of skeletons lying around) and a small spike in ammonia. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, Unless you have large populations of aquarium plants (and do lots of PWC's), its near impossible to have exactly 0 amounts of nitrate, as this is constantly be created via the nitrogen cycle. As (unless your test results are showing you erroneous readings) your nitrates do seem to be at a very minimal level, you have a very healthy tank situation going on there for your fish.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29885	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Turning off the lights for a day will kill algae spores? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:53 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? OK so critique this plan: 1-Clean tank, removing as many snails and as much algae as possible. 2-Three day black out to kill remaining algae spores or whatever 3-Reduce lighting to 8 hours daily 4-Use Hydrogen Peroxide for any flare-ups thereafter I have to be careful with the cleaning as my new Caudo babies are tiny. I'll avoid their corner and check the siphon bucket before dumping. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, Unless you have large populations of aquarium plants (and do lots of PWC's), its near impossible to have exactly 0 amounts of nitrate, as this is constantly be created via the nitrogen cycle. As (unless your test results are showing you erroneous readings) your nitrates do seem to be at a very minimal level, you have a very healthy tank situation going on there for your fish. Now to address your hair algae problem, first as Lenny pointed out, your lighting duration is excessive -- whether broken up into two periods during the day or not. The tank is still receiving 11 hours of direct lighting, on top of any diffused room lighting you're mentioning. If the artificial (direct -- tank light) lighting is employed outside of the normal daylight period of diffused room lighting (very early morning, late evening) this will have an even greater effect n the total lighting received rather than having the tank lights on just during the daylight hours. As you made mention of, yes, Flourish Excel has deleterious effects on Valisneria (and also on Elodea, and other like delicate plants). As an alternative, you might consider trying Hydrogen Peroxide with judicial use of this agent in ridding the tank of this nuisance, as it will work and is used by aquarists for this purpose. The normal dosage to use is not to exceed 2 Tbs per 10 gallons -- mixed thoroughly before adding, and distributed widely as it is added to prevent any concentrated pockets of it; still, this is to be considered an extremely weak solution affecting nothing more than lower forms of plant life. Be aware that it is an oxygenator, and should always be used with caution because of that; as such, I would go with half that strength to start out with, to avoid any possible problems with the more delicate aquatic plants (Val), and go from there. If you prefer not to approach that half-concentration-solution, you may use an eye dropper, having only 2 teaspoons of Peroxide on hand for each 10 gallons of aquarium water, and apply (squirt) small amounts of this directly on this algae. Peroxide is very unstable and will very soon break down into water and free oxygen. What algae you don't eliminate with the first try, you can repeat this process certainly by the following day to feel safe (actually much sooner), as it really breaks down completely well within 20 minutes. The main caution you need to take is not to get this product too near your fish in its full strength. As this extremely minimal amount of it is spread throughout the water, its already breaking down, but besides that its so diluted at that point that its likely it would not even be effective in killing bacteria. Its often safely used in aquariums because of these reasons; I've used it myself, and have known many others to use it, but feel I need to throw this caution out there for the awareness of all. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29886	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: ? on Marble chips as gravel

Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29887	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Why not just wait a little while for the fry to mature before doing anything drastic. With the 8 hours of lighting, instead of 11, that will begin the process of diminishing your algae issue. Use a large needle-less syringe to spot treat the hair algae with the HP. Get your water tested for iron levels or a full barrage of tests. Your local county agent or university may do this for free. Check with other well owners for other ideas on free advanced testing. Since iron in your well water may be one of the causes, here's a long article on TheKrib.com about what was called "red algae" back then but is also called hair algae, beard algae, etc. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html The article goes into detail on ways of controlling the iron levels. Also, a dechlor product that also treats for heavy metals will help with the iron issues. Here is Kordon's long article on heavy metals in aquaria and how a dechlor product treats the heavy metals. http://www.novalek.com/kordon/articles/heavy_metals.html Thanks for bringing this up again as I've re-read some stuff I haven't look at in a while. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? OK so critique this plan: 1-Clean tank, removing as many snails and as much algae as possible. 2-Three day black out to kill remaining algae spores or whatever 3-Reduce lighting to 8 hours daily 4-Use Hydrogen Peroxide for any flare-ups thereafter I have to be careful with the cleaning as my new Caudo babies are tiny. I'll avoid their corner and check the siphon bucket before dumping. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, Unless you have large populations of aquarium plants (and do lots of PWC's), its near impossible to have exactly 0 amounts of nitrate, as this is constantly be created via the nitrogen cycle. As (unless your test results are showing you erroneous readings) your nitrates do seem to be at a very minimal level, you have a very healthy tank situation going on there for your fish. Now to address your hair algae problem, first as Lenny pointed out, your lighting duration is excessive -- whether broken up into two periods during the day or not. The tank is still receiving 11 hours of direct lighting, on top of any diffused room lighting you're mentioning. If the artificial (direct -- tank light) lighting is employed outside of the normal daylight period of diffused room lighting (very early morning, late evening) this will have an even greater effect n the total lighting received rather than having the tank lights on just during the daylight hours. As you made mention of, yes, Flourish Excel has deleterious effects on Valisneria (and also on Elodea, and other like delicate plants). As an alternative, you might consider trying Hydrogen Peroxide with judicial use of this agent in ridding the tank of this nuisance, as it will work and is used by aquarists for this purpose. The normal dosage to use is not to exceed 2 Tbs per 10 gallons -- mixed thoroughly before adding, and distributed widely as it is added to prevent any concentrated pockets of it; still, this is to be considered an extremely weak solution affecting nothing more than lower forms of plant life. Be aware that it is an oxygenator, and should always be used with caution because of that; as such, I would go with half that strength to start out with, to avoid any possible problems with the more delicate aquatic plants (Val), and go from there. If you prefer not to approach that half-concentration-solution, you may use an eye dropper, having only 2 teaspoons of Peroxide on hand for each 10 gallons of aquarium water, and apply (squirt) small amounts of this directly on this algae. Peroxide is very unstable and will very soon break down into water and free oxygen. What algae you don't eliminate with the first try, you can repeat this process certainly by the following day to feel safe (actually much sooner), as it really breaks down completely well within 20 minutes. The main caution you need to take is not to get this product too near your fish in its full strength. As this extremely minimal amount of it is spread throughout the water, its already breaking down, but besides that its so diluted at that point that its likely it would not even be effective in killing bacteria. Its often safely used in aquariums because of these reasons; I've used it myself, and have known many others to use it, but feel I need to throw this caution out there for the awareness of all. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 12:57:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:39:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29888	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions

Donna, When we had the same thing happen here, the well guy dumped a gallon of bleach down the well and then had us run the pump from an outside faucet for about 4 hours to rid the chlorine from the system. The reason for the chlorine is to clean the pipe that goes down to the water. Lots of stuff gets knocked in there when you're pulling a well. BTW, where do you live? 2500 ft deep for a water well is a LOT. Here in SE Michigan, wells are usually 80 to 100 ft down. Sure you're not drilling for oil? :) Linda Donna Ransome wrote: > It’s a private well. Someone else has the ammonia, not me. From my > original post: > > > > My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). > So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. > > > > The well is over ½ mile deep drilled through solid rock (and other strata). > If something dies on the surface it is going to have no impact on this > water. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29889	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Can I still use this water?

Long story short, I bought 2 new 5 gallons buckets and filled them Tues night to do a gravel cleaning and water change. Had all intentions of doing it Weds, but I have been stuck babysitting for the grandkids since then and have not had the chance to do it. I want to do the cleaning tomorrow, is it still ok to use this water that has been sitting in those buckets in the kitchen for 5 days?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29890	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: My danio jumped out of its container and I stepped on it

I don't know what else you can do, I have had a couple of fish that I swore were going to die and then all of a sudden, back to life they spring! However, I feel your pain. I hate like heck when I accidently kill one. People make fun of me "it's just a dam fish" , I guess not for me because I feel so bad when I lose one. Hope your little fishy pulls through. Viv --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > And it's still living. > > I bought three danios to replace one that I accidentally killed while > cleaning the tank the other day. Male danios have a real penchent for > trouble and I'm down to five adult females and two juvenile males in my > tank. > > I have the fish in a plastic tub with a bubbler while I acclimate them to > the tank water. I come back in the room and only two fish are in the tub. > Now, tub is in the middle of the desk, and the keyboard and keybaord tray > between the tub and the floor, the top of the water reaches to an inch and a > half below the top of the tub, and the fish had to clear two inches in > addition because the tub is sitting in a plastic bowl in order to not tip > over. So I'm looking all over the place. Where is hte third fish? > > Third fish turns out ot be on the floor, under my foot. I put fish in the > water - and it quickly revives and starts swimming! > > I put in a couple of drops of stress coat. Is there anything else I should > do for the fish? I can't tell if it's hurt. If a giant stepped on me, > I'd be hurt. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29891	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question

The only thing worse than the 1 gallon per inch so-called-rule that is thrown around by the likes of PetsMart.... is their new 2 gallons per inch so-called-rule... it's only half as bad! LOL There is NO simple rule like that for any fish that get over 3" in length or wide-bodied fish. See my blog article called "New rules/guidelines to replace the 1" per gallon, FISH KILLING, rule..." http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html Here's a snip from that article for my set of rules that work in most cases but even these are bare-minimum guidelines. More water is always much, much better! These rules were collaborated on by many advanced fish keepers in a forum thread I started several years ago. NEW rules (guidelines) to replace the 1" per gallon, FISH KILLING, rule (guideline) for Freshwater Aquariums Proposed MINIMUM recommendations for aquariums with multiple fish. These MINIMUMS do not work when only one LARGER fish is alone in the tank... in that case, use the "Tank Size Guideline" below: Small Fish - 1 Gallon per adult size inch for fish up to 3 inches as adults. (This is the only type of fish that fits in the 1" per gallon rule. Fish that will be small even as adults.) (Also see Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking List And Suggestions ) Medium Fish - 2 Gallons per adult size inch for fish 3" to 6" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 24" to 48" long (6X to 8X longer than longest expected adult sized fish in the tank) Medium Large Fish (including most Fancy Goldfish) - 3 Gallons per adult size inch for fish 6" to 10" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 48" to 80" long (6X to 8X longer than longest expected adult sized fish in the tank). Large Fish (including Oscars, Common Pleco's, Comets and Common Goldfish) - 5 Gallons per adult size inch for fish over 10" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 80" long and UP depending on expected adult size of fish using the basis of 8X longer than the longest expected adult sized fish in the tank. Koi should really be in a large pond since most aquariums are not large enough unless you have a HUGE tank. (End Snip - Lots more in the article) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question I called Petsmart and checked on that goldfish display. It's a hundred gallon tank. It does say on top goldfish, but that's allegedly because they can't change it. The tank actually contains five cichlids. She admitted to me that goldfish need alot of room - because they get up to 6 to 8 inches long and make alot of mess, which means they need 2 gallons/ inch. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <jan1213@... <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question Thanks I have a 46 gallon tank In a message dated 9/12/2008 5:45:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: What size tank do you have? Fancy Goldfish need BIG tanks and long-bodied goldfish like comets really should be in a pond or a really BIG tank... 8' long, at least, to give them proper swimming room. They grow to over 12" long. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

It depends on what the "marble chips" actually are. See if you can find out what kind of rock chips they really are. Do you have a brand/product name on the bag? What kind of fish do you plan on keeping? What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH? Here are some articles I have in my favorites folder about rocks as substrates/decorations. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml (Read down to where he talks about limestone and then marble chips) http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:27:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:02:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29893	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Not for a day... that's just like a little nap for them. LOL There is a three day total blackout where the tank is covered with a dark blanket or other material and no lighting, food, not even a peek, etc. for three days that has helped some people kill off the algae. Even it doesn't work for everyone. Donna did mention the three day blackout, not a one day lights out. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Turning off the lights for a day will kill algae spores? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:53 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? OK so critique this plan: 1-Clean tank, removing as many snails and as much algae as possible. 2-Three day black out to kill remaining algae spores or whatever 3-Reduce lighting to 8 hours daily 4-Use Hydrogen Peroxide for any flare-ups thereafter I have to be careful with the cleaning as my new Caudo babies are tiny. I'll avoid their corner and check the siphon bucket before dumping. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, Unless you have large populations of aquarium plants (and do lots of PWC's), its near impossible to have exactly 0 amounts of nitrate, as this is constantly be created via the nitrogen cycle. As (unless your test results are showing you erroneous readings) your nitrates do seem to be at a very minimal level, you have a very healthy tank situation going on there for your fish. Now to address your hair algae problem, first as Lenny pointed out, your lighting duration is excessive -- whether broken up into two periods during the day or not. The tank is still receiving 11 hours of direct lighting, on top of any diffused room lighting you're mentioning. If the artificial (direct -- tank light) lighting is employed outside of the normal daylight period of diffused room lighting (very early morning, late evening) this will have an even greater effect n the total lighting received rather than having the tank lights on just during the daylight hours. As you made mention of, yes, Flourish Excel has deleterious effects on Valisneria (and also on Elodea, and other like delicate plants). As an alternative, you might consider trying Hydrogen Peroxide with judicial use of this agent in ridding the tank of this nuisance, as it will work and is used by aquarists for this purpose. The normal dosage to use is not to exceed 2 Tbs per 10 gallons -- mixed thoroughly before adding, and distributed widely as it is added to prevent any concentrated pockets of it; still, this is to be considered an extremely weak solution affecting nothing more than lower forms of plant life. Be aware that it is an oxygenator, and should always be used with caution because of that; as such, I would go with half that strength to start out with, to avoid any possible problems with the more delicate aquatic plants (Val), and go from there. If you prefer not to approach that half-concentration-solution, you may use an eye dropper, having only 2 teaspoons of Peroxide on hand for each 10 gallons of aquarium water, and apply (squirt) small amounts of this directly on this algae. Peroxide is very unstable and will very soon break down into water and free oxygen. What algae you don't eliminate with the first try, you can repeat this process certainly by the following day to feel safe (actually much sooner), as it really breaks down completely well within 20 minutes. The main caution you need to take is not to get this product too near your fish in its full strength. As this extremely minimal amount of it is spread throughout the water, its already breaking down, but besides that its so diluted at that point that its likely it would not even be effective in killing bacteria. Its often safely used in aquariums because of these reasons; I've used it myself, and have known many others to use it, but feel I need to throw this caution out there for the awareness of all. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:27:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29894	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can I still use this water?

It probably is still fine. Do you have chlorine or chloramine in your tap water? In either case, the water should not have become stagnant or anything like that after only five days. I'm presuming you haven't done any kind of cleaning of the kitchen where the water would have been exposed to aerosols or other cleaning solutions... or anything the grandkids might have done to the water. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I still use this water? Long story short, I bought 2 new 5 gallons buckets and filled them Tues night to do a gravel cleaning and water change. Had all intentions of doing it Weds, but I have been stuck babysitting for the grandkids since then and have not had the chance to do it. I want to do the cleaning tomorrow, is it still ok to use this water that has been sitting in those buckets in the kitchen for 5 days? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:10:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29895	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: interesting

U have to see this Barb! hope this is ok to post... was looking for a shark for my desktop and i came across these megafish thought ya would all like to see. http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-gallery/giant-barb-megafish-gallery.html On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > It probably is still fine. Do you have chlorine or chloramine in your > tap > water? In either case, the water should not have become stagnant or > anything like that after only five days. > > I'm presuming you haven't done any kind of cleaning of the kitchen where > the > water would have been exposed to aerosols or other cleaning solutions... or > anything the grandkids might have done to the water. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of vivian bradish > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I still use this water? > > Long story short, I bought 2 new 5 gallons buckets and filled them Tues > night to do a gravel cleaning and water change. Had all intentions of doing > it Weds, but I have been stuck babysitting for the grandkids since then and > have not had the chance to do it. I want to do the cleaning tomorrow, is it > still ok to use this water that has been sitting in those buckets in the > kitchen for 5 days? > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 > Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:10:04 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29896	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Donna, As I recall, you mentioned that the length of the algae was only 0.25 inch. That hardly qualifies as what I know as hair algae. Also, as I recall, you did not state that the growth was rampant throughout your tank. It seemed as though it was fairly limited in its area of growth. (I just went back to through the thread, and it was 0.25-0.5 inch, so it may be hair algae, but I normally have seen it longer than that.) As Lenny has stated earlier in this thread, algae needs three things to grow, light; food; and CO2. You need to reduce at least one of these to stem the growth of algae. None of the methods I am going to mention will show immediate results, so, you need to have some patience here. Your lighting seems to be the first place to start, from the measurements you gave (this is where I went back to find your water parameters and noted my error above--the memory can be a tricky thing sometimes). Presuming that your tank is not in a windowless room, try lighting the tank only while you are home and able to enjoy the tank, maybe 5-6 hours maximum. The higher plants should be able to get the light they need from the ambient light in the room, unless you have some species that do need high light to grow. On the food front, if you are using a fertilizer of some sort (not yet mentioned if you are or not), cease using it. If your current crop of plants do not need it, the algae will gladly help itself to the excess. Plant more plants. Once they get over the transplant shock (crypts are famous for dying back to nothing before starting to grow again when they are moved) and start growing, they will begin to out compete the algae for any excess food available, and the algae crop will start dying back. You also, I think, should test for CO2. There are test kits available for this. I have never used one, so I have no recommendation, though I have used O2 test kits mainly for my pond when I had one. Since your water comes from a very deep well, it may have an excess CO2 content that is not out gassing for some reason, and your pH may be higher without it. The only method I can think of to reduce it, if it is high, is to agitate your water more to allow the CO2 to outgas. Reducing any one of the above will eventually reduce your algal growth. Reducing two will offer a greater chance of success, and reducing all three should come with some sort of guarantee, but, then again, you could simply have one of those evil tanks that will not respond to any type of cure for very long. I've had a few, not with algae, but with other problems, that would eventually lead me to remove them from my collection and dispose of them, which was far less expensive than trying to cure them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Oh it's out of hand. It plugs up the intake for the filter and my Python during water changes (I have to stop the suction and clear the hose 3X before I can complete a water change on a 38G tank). I'd rather have the type that grows on the glass because it is easily scraped off and swished away with the Python during weekly water changes. I'll try reducing the lights. I can't identify a fish that will eat hair algae that would not be harmed by adding it to my tank. The current inhabitants are carnivores so they don't even nibble. I'll test for iron, but I still need the remedy if I've got it, LOL. When I move this community to the six foot tank, I may add a group of SAE, but the current tank is too small for them. Thanks Steve. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, Be aware that all tanks have algae, whether you can see it or not. Some people use it as a decorative aspect of their tanks, when it grows as you are describing. This is not necessarily a bad thing. The algae will become home to many small critters that will serve as a food source for some fish and the algae itself will be grazed upon by those fish who want some veggie in their diet. The real problem is to not let the algae get out of hand. You may want to send a sample of your water to a testing laboratory to have a relatively complete analysis done for the more common tests, such as iron and manganese, Coliform bacteria, pH, alkalinity, etc. It may save you a bit of money in the long run, and alert you to parameters you may wish to keep an eye on. Adding more plantings to your tank will also help to control the algae in your tank, as the plants can out-compete the algae for nutrients, and you can reach a balance where the algae will no longer expand, or even decrease without you needing to do anything. This is a relatively slow process however, and probably would require you to change your thinking about algae a bit, so you see some algae as being a good thing rather than a bad thing. Now, don't get me wrong, some algae is not a good thing and may indicate a problem in your tank, but the algae you describe seems to be a relatively benign form and can be seen as a "good" algae. If you really want to get rid of it, you may wish to follow the suggestions that some of the others are giving you, I really can't help you as I have not tried to do so since I was a kid many moons ago (though some opinions on this may differ from my own). Just be careful how you do it so that no other plants or animals are harmed in the process. Algaecides are not a real good way to remove algae, so you simple (ha!, he said simply, who is he kidding) need to try to alter some of your water parameters. This would need to be approached with caution so that you overall water quality is not affected. If you go to www.aquatic-gardeners.org, and look at some of the pictures there, very carefully, you will note that many of the tanks shown not only have beautiful plant growth, but there is some algae growing as well on some of the surfaces. Not a bad thing at all. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:05 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Hmmm. The 2 photoperiods was suggested as a way to combat algae as well as allow for more natural production of CO2 without having to add it to the tank. I do use well water, but Nitrates=0 and Phosphates=0. It is also a private 3000 foot deep well drilled through rock. I supposed the aquifer could have fertilizers leaking into it from elsewhere. What is the test for fertilizers other than Nitrates and Phosphates? I could test for iron. If I have that, what would be the remedy? My lights are definitely on a timer. I'll clean the tank, do a three-day blackout to kill any residual algae and then try the timer on an 8 hour single photoperiod. The period during the day when the tank lights are off, there is still daylight in the room. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Live plants create kind of a trilogy of parameters that are needed for optimum plant growth without getting algae. If any of these three parts are off, then you can get algae, stunted plant growth, etc. The trilogy is lighting, plant fertilizers/minerals and carbon dioxide. Since each tank is different, it takes a little experimentation to find the right levels of each... which is why so many people just take the short cut of getting one or more algae eating fish/critters. Chuck's Planted Tanks pages and articles go into more details... http://www.csd. <http://www.csd. <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm and his page on Algae http://www.csd. <http://www.csd. <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm indicates that hair algae is sometimes a result from high iron levels in your water or fertilizers and from well water. Do you use well water? Read the entire article for more info. Cut back on the time the lighting is on full strength would be the first thing I would try. Your test results look fine so the easiest thing you can control right off the bat is the lighting. 11 hours is a little excessive, in most cases, and especially using two lighting periods per day is probably not a good thing for your plants or fish and could be causing shock issues for your plants so you may not get optimum growth out of them so they out-compete the algae for available resources. I wonder if this would effect the lifespans of the fish and plants where they are thinking they are living two days for every actual day they are living. Probably not but I wonder. I use Mother Nature as a good example. Most plants, trees, etc.... and especially aquatic plants and fish only get full sunlight for around 6 hours a day. Using a "single" 12 hour daylight span from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., the sun is either rising or setting from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. and then from 4 p.m to 7 p.m. so aquatic plants are not getting nearly as much light during those hours so they really only get bright lighting for the six hours between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m.... of course your location in reference to the equator would change this even more. Some of the higher end modern lighting systems (with multiple bulbs and the even newer LED lighting systems) are starting to give the user programmable control of their lighting where it's not either all on or all off so the user can program the lights to come on at 20%, then slowly raise to 100% and then slowly go back down to 20% and then off. For my own tanks with the good old on/off fluorescent lighting, I only leave the tank lights on for 6 to 8 hours a day (8 hours on the planted tanks) but I have the room lighting on in the morning and evening to mimic natural lighting a little better. If you aren't home for 12 hours a day or more like me, using a timer on a room light and then a second timer on your tank lights would give you this dawn and dusk effect of room lighting with the tank lights only coming on a couple of hours before/after the room lighting is on and off. The room also gets some sunlighting through opaque mini-blinds so it's not direct sunlight but it does provide additional lighting to the room. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? I have a planted tank with these readings: Ammonia=0 Nitrite=0 Nitrate=0 pH=7.8 DH=7 KH=7 Phosphate=0 I know the test kits are good, because my tanks that are NOT planted get WAY different readings, LOL. I've been getting algae...I think it's hair algae. Grows in green clouds on rocks, background and substrate. Not on the glass, doesn't wave in the current. Stays relatively short, like ¼ to ½ inch. Three watts per gallon, and the Vallisneria and Crypts are doing fine (except for snail damage). 6700k lights are on total of 11 hours/day in two photoperiods (on 4, off 6, on 7, off 7). I'm at a loss as to how to get rid of it since there are no Nitrates or Phosphates. I just got the Phosphate test kit today. I've heard Excel works, but also that it melts Vallisneria. Suggestions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29897	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: interesting

While at that page, I navigated to this one... http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/animals/fish-animals/ Watch the video through the other animals "wrestling" until you see the two Oscars (I think.. or some kind of big cichlid) mouth wrestling (looked like they were just screaming at each other at first..lol) over a cave and then a mouth brooder with about 100 fry looking out at the camera from the parents mouth. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 3:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] interesting U have to see this Barb! hope this is ok to post... was looking for a shark for my desktop and i came across these megafish thought ya would all like to see. http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-gallery/gian t-barb-megafish-gallery.html <http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-gallery/gia nt-barb-megafish-gallery.html> On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > It probably is still fine. Do you have chlorine or chloramine in your > tap water? In either case, the water should not have become stagnant > or anything like that after only five days. > > I'm presuming you haven't done any kind of cleaning of the kitchen > where the water would have been exposed to aerosols or other cleaning > solutions... or anything the grandkids might have done to the water. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of vivian bradish > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I still use this water? > > Long story short, I bought 2 new 5 gallons buckets and filled them > Tues night to do a gravel cleaning and water change. Had all > intentions of doing it Weds, but I have been stuck babysitting for the > grandkids since then and have not had the chance to do it. I want to > do the cleaning tomorrow, is it still ok to use this water that has > been sitting in those buckets in the kitchen for 5 days? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 3:44:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29898	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: interesting

cool.. i'll check it out! but did u see that barb... OMG! that is ONE huge barb! On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > While at that page, I navigated to this one... > > http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/animals/fish-animals/ > > Watch the video through the other animals "wrestling" until you see the two > Oscars (I think.. or some kind of big cichlid) mouth wrestling (looked like > they were just screaming at each other at first..lol) over a cave and then > a > mouth brooder with about 100 fry looking out at the camera from the parents > mouth. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of L. Gove > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 3:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] interesting > > U have to see this Barb! > > hope this is ok to post... was looking for a shark for my desktop and i > came > across these megafish thought ya would all like to see. > > http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-gallery/gian > t-barb-megafish-gallery.html > < > http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-gallery/gia > nt-barb-megafish-gallery.html> > > On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > It probably is still fine. Do you have chlorine or chloramine in your > > tap water? In either case, the water should not have become stagnant > > or anything like that after only five days. > > > > I'm presuming you haven't done any kind of cleaning of the kitchen > > where the water would have been exposed to aerosols or other cleaning > > solutions... or anything the grandkids might have done to the water. > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> < > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of vivian bradish > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I still use this water? > > > > Long story short, I bought 2 new 5 gallons buckets and filled them > > Tues night to do a gravel cleaning and water change. Had all > > intentions of doing it Weds, but I have been stuck babysitting for the > > grandkids since then and have not had the chance to do it. I want to > > do the cleaning tomorrow, is it still ok to use this water that has > > been sitting in those buckets in the kitchen for 5 days? > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 > Tested on: 9/13/2008 3:44:57 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29899	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

The articles are very interesting. I'll look at some of them. Lenny, what do you think of filter media to remove silicates and phosphates? They seem to be quite expensive, but Marine Depot has one on sale. Phos-zorb. My tap water is .75 to 1.0 ppm phosphates and 6 to 7 ppm silica (note, not silicates but silica), according to the water quality report. My phosphate test results were consistent with that. You know what it's like trying to read API test results. I did do another fairly thorough siphoning of hte gravel with 25% water change because I found buildups of stuff under a couple of clumps of plastic plants - yes, the same plants taht weren't even in the tank when I cleaned it two or three days ago. I did hunt thoroughly for any dead fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Since "brown algae" isn't really algae anyhow, I'm sure it's not going to look like algae under a microscope. Diatoms are microscopic critters that form on surface areas of a tank and use the silicates in the water to build little shells around them which are brown in most cases in FW aquaria but can be many different colors in SW http://bio1903.nicerweb.com/Locked/media/lab/diversity/protista/img/Diatoms. jpg. Since they form on surfaces like many algae do, people thought they were a "brown algae" until it was later learned what they truly were. Here's a long article all about "brown algae" with links to university websites with microscopic pics for you to compare. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml They usually diminish as a visible issue after a few months in a new tank as the overall ecology of the tank forms and out competes them for resources. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST <http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST> Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 12:57:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:22:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29900	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can I still use this water?

Depends on what's accumulated in it, and I would expect only dust to be really harmful. I learned the hard way to cover water that's allowed to sit for any length of time. A dish towel seems to work well. Unless you see perceptible mold or slime in the water. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "vivian bradish" <viv32117@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I still use this water? Long story short, I bought 2 new 5 gallons buckets and filled them Tues night to do a gravel cleaning and water change. Had all intentions of doing it Weds, but I have been stuck babysitting for the grandkids since then and have not had the chance to do it. I want to do the cleaning tomorrow, is it still ok to use this water that has been sitting in those buckets in the kitchen for 5 days? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29901	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question

I had my doubts. I don't know if fancy goldfish only get to be 8 inches long. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question The only thing worse than the 1 gallon per inch so-called-rule that is thrown around by the likes of PetsMart.... is their new 2 gallons per inch so-called-rule... it's only half as bad! LOL There is NO simple rule like that for any fish that get over 3" in length or wide-bodied fish. See my blog article called "New rules/guidelines to replace the 1" per gallon, FISH KILLING, rule..." http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html Here's a snip from that article for my set of rules that work in most cases but even these are bare-minimum guidelines. More water is always much, much better! These rules were collaborated on by many advanced fish keepers in a forum thread I started several years ago. NEW rules (guidelines) to replace the 1" per gallon, FISH KILLING, rule (guideline) for Freshwater Aquariums Proposed MINIMUM recommendations for aquariums with multiple fish. These MINIMUMS do not work when only one LARGER fish is alone in the tank... in that case, use the "Tank Size Guideline" below: Small Fish - 1 Gallon per adult size inch for fish up to 3 inches as adults. (This is the only type of fish that fits in the 1" per gallon rule. Fish that will be small even as adults.) (Also see Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking List And Suggestions ) Medium Fish - 2 Gallons per adult size inch for fish 3" to 6" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 24" to 48" long (6X to 8X longer than longest expected adult sized fish in the tank) Medium Large Fish (including most Fancy Goldfish) - 3 Gallons per adult size inch for fish 6" to 10" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 48" to 80" long (6X to 8X longer than longest expected adult sized fish in the tank). Large Fish (including Oscars, Common Pleco's, Comets and Common Goldfish) - 5 Gallons per adult size inch for fish over 10" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 80" long and UP depending on expected adult size of fish using the basis of 8X longer than the longest expected adult sized fish in the tank. Koi should really be in a large pond since most aquariums are not large enough unless you have a HUGE tank. (End Snip - Lots more in the article) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question I called Petsmart and checked on that goldfish display. It's a hundred gallon tank. It does say on top goldfish, but that's allegedly because they can't change it. The tank actually contains five cichlids. She admitted to me that goldfish need alot of room - because they get up to 6 to 8 inches long and make alot of mess, which means they need 2 gallons/ inch. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <jan1213@... <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question Thanks I have a 46 gallon tank In a message dated 9/12/2008 5:45:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: What size tank do you have? Fancy Goldfish need BIG tanks and long-bodied goldfish like comets really should be in a pond or a really BIG tank... 8' long, at least, to give them proper swimming room. They grow to over 12" long. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: interesting

Yeah, I've seen most of the giant fish pics out there. Those Mekong Catfish are even more impressive than the barb. 10' long, 650 pounds... now that's a tank buster! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] interesting cool.. i'll check it out! but did u see that barb... OMG! that is ONE huge barb! On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > While at that page, I navigated to this one... > > http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/animals/fish-animals/ > <http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/animals/fish-animals > /> > > Watch the video through the other animals "wrestling" until you see > the two Oscars (I think.. or some kind of big cichlid) mouth wrestling > (looked like they were just screaming at each other at first..lol) > over a cave and then a mouth brooder with about 100 fry looking out at > the camera from the parents mouth. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of L. Gove > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 3:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] interesting > > U have to see this Barb! > > hope this is ok to post... was looking for a shark for my desktop and > i came across these megafish thought ya would all like to see. > > http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-galler > y/gian > <http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-galle > ry/gian> > t-barb-megafish-gallery.html > < > http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-galler > y/gia > <http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-galle > ry/gia> > nt-barb-megafish-gallery.html> > > On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com > <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > It probably is still fine. Do you have chlorine or chloramine in > > your tap water? In either case, the water should not have become > > stagnant or anything like that after only five days. > > > > I'm presuming you haven't done any kind of cleaning of the kitchen > > where the water would have been exposed to aerosols or other > > cleaning solutions... or anything the grandkids might have done to the water. > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> >> < > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of vivian bradish > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I still use this water? > > > > Long story short, I bought 2 new 5 gallons buckets and filled them > > Tues night to do a gravel cleaning and water change. Had all > > intentions of doing it Weds, but I have been stuck babysitting for > > the grandkids since then and have not had the chance to do it. I > > want to do the cleaning tomorrow, is it still ok to use this water > > that has been sitting in those buckets in the kitchen for 5 days? > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 > 3:44:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com> on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29903	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

The low levels that are found in most tap water sources are usually easily handled by the natural ecology of a mature aquarium. How old is the tank that you are seeing the brown algae/diatoms in? As I recall, your tank(s) are relatively new so I would just leave them alone and keep vacuuming the brown algae out with your weekly PWC's and let nature take its course. Most of the time, brown algae/diatoms are only an issue in the first six months of a tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 3:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank The articles are very interesting. I'll look at some of them. Lenny, what do you think of filter media to remove silicates and phosphates? They seem to be quite expensive, but Marine Depot has one on sale. Phos-zorb. My tap water is .75 to 1.0 ppm phosphates and 6 to 7 ppm silica (note, not silicates but silica), according to the water quality report. My phosphate test results were consistent with that. You know what it's like trying to read API test results. I did do another fairly thorough siphoning of hte gravel with 25% water change because I found buildups of stuff under a couple of clumps of plastic plants - yes, the same plants taht weren't even in the tank when I cleaned it two or three days ago. I did hunt thoroughly for any dead fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Since "brown algae" isn't really algae anyhow, I'm sure it's not going to look like algae under a microscope. Diatoms are microscopic critters that form on surface areas of a tank and use the silicates in the water to build little shells around them which are brown in most cases in FW aquaria but can be many different colors in SW http://bio1903.nicerweb.com/Locked/media/lab/diversity/protista/img/Diatoms. <http://bio1903.nicerweb.com/Locked/media/lab/diversity/protista/img/Diatoms .> jpg. Since they form on surfaces like many algae do, people thought they were a "brown algae" until it was later learned what they truly were. Here's a long article all about "brown algae" with links to university websites with microscopic pics for you to compare. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml> They usually diminish as a visible issue after a few months in a new tank as the overall ecology of the tank forms and out competes them for resources. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST <http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST> <http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST <http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST <http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST> > > Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 12:57:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:22:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 4:00:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29904	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question

The round bodied varieties of goldfish will generally reach 6-10" in body length, depending on the variety. The tails can add another few inches to the length of the fish. This is one reason why there are two classes of measurement for fish, SL (Standard Length measured from the tip of the snout to the caudal peduncle (where the tail starts growing)) and TL (Total Length measured from the tip of the snout to the tip of the tail). For unspecified measurements, for our purposes, it is safer to assume SL when the measurement is not defined, which will give a margin of safety when determining tank size. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question I had my doubts. I don't know if fancy goldfish only get to be 8 inches long. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question The only thing worse than the 1 gallon per inch so-called-rule that is thrown around by the likes of PetsMart.... is their new 2 gallons per inch so-called-rule... it's only half as bad! LOL There is NO simple rule like that for any fish that get over 3" in length or wide-bodied fish. See my blog article called "New rules/guidelines to replace the 1" per gallon, FISH KILLING, rule..." http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1- per. html Here's a snip from that article for my set of rules that work in most cases but even these are bare-minimum guidelines. More water is always much, much better! These rules were collaborated on by many advanced fish keepers in a forum thread I started several years ago. NEW rules (guidelines) to replace the 1" per gallon, FISH KILLING, rule (guideline) for Freshwater Aquariums Proposed MINIMUM recommendations for aquariums with multiple fish. These MINIMUMS do not work when only one LARGER fish is alone in the tank... in that case, use the "Tank Size Guideline" below: Small Fish - 1 Gallon per adult size inch for fish up to 3 inches as adults. (This is the only type of fish that fits in the 1" per gallon rule. Fish that will be small even as adults.) (Also see Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking List And Suggestions ) Medium Fish - 2 Gallons per adult size inch for fish 3" to 6" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 24" to 48" long (6X to 8X longer than longest expected adult sized fish in the tank) Medium Large Fish (including most Fancy Goldfish) - 3 Gallons per adult size inch for fish 6" to 10" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 48" to 80" long (6X to 8X longer than longest expected adult sized fish in the tank). Large Fish (including Oscars, Common Pleco's, Comets and Common Goldfish) - 5 Gallons per adult size inch for fish over 10" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 80" long and UP depending on expected adult size of fish using the basis of 8X longer than the longest expected adult sized fish in the tank. Koi should really be in a large pond since most aquariums are not large enough unless you have a HUGE tank. (End Snip - Lots more in the article) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question I called Petsmart and checked on that goldfish display. It's a hundred gallon tank. It does say on top goldfish, but that's allegedly because they can't change it. The tank actually contains five cichlids. She admitted to me that goldfish need alot of room - because they get up to 6 to 8 inches long and make alot of mess, which means they need 2 gallons/ inch. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <jan1213@... <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question Thanks I have a 46 gallon tank In a message dated 9/12/2008 5:45:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: What size tank do you have? Fancy Goldfish need BIG tanks and long-bodied goldfish like comets really should be in a pond or a really BIG tank... 8' long, at least, to give them proper swimming room. They grow to over 12" long.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29905	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

Brown algae could be dead or dying algae, or it is diatoms. If the latter, it generally grows in sheets, and is easily wiped off the surfaces it is on (rough surfaces may require a brush). The presence of diatoms indicates an excess of silicates in the water. If the silicates come from your substrate, this will be a stage that will pass when the silicates are no longer at a level that will support the diatoms. If the silicates are in your water source, they will continue to grow as you replenish the supply each time you do a water change. I do not know if there is an inexpensive method to measure silicates in your water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29906	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: My danio jumped out of its container and I stepped on it

Seems to be OK so far. I hope I don't pull it out of the plastic plants in a couple of days. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "vivian bradish" <viv32117@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:22 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My danio jumped out of its container and I stepped on it I don't know what else you can do, I have had a couple of fish that I swore were going to die and then all of a sudden, back to life they spring! However, I feel your pain. I hate like heck when I accidently kill one. People make fun of me "it's just a dam fish" , I guess not for me because I feel so bad when I lose one. Hope your little fishy pulls through. Viv --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > And it's still living. > > I bought three danios to replace one that I accidentally killed while > cleaning the tank the other day. Male danios have a real penchent for > trouble and I'm down to five adult females and two juvenile males in my > tank. > > I have the fish in a plastic tub with a bubbler while I acclimate them to > the tank water. I come back in the room and only two fish are in the tub. > Now, tub is in the middle of the desk, and the keyboard and keybaord tray > between the tub and the floor, the top of the water reaches to an inch and a > half below the top of the tub, and the fish had to clear two inches in > addition because the tub is sitting in a plastic bowl in order to not tip > over. So I'm looking all over the place. Where is hte third fish? > > Third fish turns out ot be on the floor, under my foot. I put fish in the > water - and it quickly revives and starts swimming! > > I put in a couple of drops of stress coat. Is there anything else I should > do for the fish? I can't tell if it's hurt. If a giant stepped on me, > I'd be hurt. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29907	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gold fish question

Depending on the morphology of the fancy goldfish, they should grow to 6" to 8" long ... but they are very round-bodied so they are equal in body mass to their 12" to 15" counterparts... so they still require LOTS of water volume to dilute their waste and ammonia excretions between PWC's. And then there's Bruce The Oranda who set a Guiness record at 15"+ for a fancy goldfish. http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/animals/newsid_2037000/2037050.stm It's most important to have BIG fish in a proper sized tank from the start to avoid stunting them. Many people think, "I'll get a bigger tank when the fish gets bigger!", but that's a serious catch-22 since the fish won't get as big as it should in an undersized tank so the people never get the larger tank and then the fish gets permanently stunted and has the health effects and eventual early death that comes with stunting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question I had my doubts. I don't know if fancy goldfish only get to be 8 inches long. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question The only thing worse than the 1 gallon per inch so-called-rule that is thrown around by the likes of PetsMart.... is their new 2 gallons per inch so-called-rule... it's only half as bad! LOL There is NO simple rule like that for any fish that get over 3" in length or wide-bodied fish. See my blog article called "New rules/guidelines to replace the 1" per gallon, FISH KILLING, rule..." http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per .> html Here's a snip from that article for my set of rules that work in most cases but even these are bare-minimum guidelines. More water is always much, much better! These rules were collaborated on by many advanced fish keepers in a forum thread I started several years ago. NEW rules (guidelines) to replace the 1" per gallon, FISH KILLING, rule (guideline) for Freshwater Aquariums Proposed MINIMUM recommendations for aquariums with multiple fish. These MINIMUMS do not work when only one LARGER fish is alone in the tank... in that case, use the "Tank Size Guideline" below: Small Fish - 1 Gallon per adult size inch for fish up to 3 inches as adults. (This is the only type of fish that fits in the 1" per gallon rule. Fish that will be small even as adults.) (Also see Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking List And Suggestions ) Medium Fish - 2 Gallons per adult size inch for fish 3" to 6" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 24" to 48" long (6X to 8X longer than longest expected adult sized fish in the tank) Medium Large Fish (including most Fancy Goldfish) - 3 Gallons per adult size inch for fish 6" to 10" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 48" to 80" long (6X to 8X longer than longest expected adult sized fish in the tank). Large Fish (including Oscars, Common Pleco's, Comets and Common Goldfish) - 5 Gallons per adult size inch for fish over 10" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 80" long and UP depending on expected adult size of fish using the basis of 8X longer than the longest expected adult sized fish in the tank. Koi should really be in a large pond since most aquariums are not large enough unless you have a HUGE tank. (End Snip - Lots more in the article) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question I called Petsmart and checked on that goldfish display. It's a hundred gallon tank. It does say on top goldfish, but that's allegedly because they can't change it. The tank actually contains five cichlids. She admitted to me that goldfish need alot of room - because they get up to 6 to 8 inches long and make alot of mess, which means they need 2 gallons/ inch. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <jan1213@... <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com> <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fish question Thanks I have a 46 gallon tank In a message dated 9/12/2008 5:45:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: What size tank do you have? Fancy Goldfish need BIG tanks and long-bodied goldfish like comets really should be in a pond or a really BIG tank... 8' long, at least, to give them proper swimming room. They grow to over 12" long. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29908	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

If the chips are indeed marble, probably not, unless you wish to maintain a certain level of hardness of your water. Marble is a form of calcium carbonate, which will dissolve, albeit slowly, in water. However, despite the slowness, it will affect your water chemistry. If you do need to maintain a certain level of water hardness, you are better off using a product that will do this for you so you can add it in measured amounts so the water chemistry will not be radically affected. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29909	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

My tank did recently achieve maturity. I've had it set up since something like April. But I understand that in the natural course of things the diatoms are out competed by green algae, and I'd just as soon not have a tank full of green algae. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank The low levels that are found in most tap water sources are usually easily handled by the natural ecology of a mature aquarium. How old is the tank that you are seeing the brown algae/diatoms in? As I recall, your tank(s) are relatively new so I would just leave them alone and keep vacuuming the brown algae out with your weekly PWC's and let nature take its course. Most of the time, brown algae/diatoms are only an issue in the first six months of a tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 3:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank The articles are very interesting. I'll look at some of them. Lenny, what do you think of filter media to remove silicates and phosphates? They seem to be quite expensive, but Marine Depot has one on sale. Phos-zorb. My tap water is .75 to 1.0 ppm phosphates and 6 to 7 ppm silica (note, not silicates but silica), according to the water quality report. My phosphate test results were consistent with that. You know what it's like trying to read API test results. I did do another fairly thorough siphoning of hte gravel with 25% water change because I found buildups of stuff under a couple of clumps of plastic plants - yes, the same plants taht weren't even in the tank when I cleaned it two or three days ago. I did hunt thoroughly for any dead fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Since "brown algae" isn't really algae anyhow, I'm sure it's not going to look like algae under a microscope. Diatoms are microscopic critters that form on surface areas of a tank and use the silicates in the water to build little shells around them which are brown in most cases in FW aquaria but can be many different colors in SW http://bio1903.nicerweb.com/Locked/media/lab/diversity/protista/img/Diatoms. <http://bio1903.nicerweb.com/Locked/media/lab/diversity/protista/img/Diatoms .> jpg. Since they form on surfaces like many algae do, people thought they were a "brown algae" until it was later learned what they truly were. Here's a long article all about "brown algae" with links to university websites with microscopic pics for you to compare. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml> They usually diminish as a visible issue after a few months in a new tank as the overall ecology of the tank forms and out competes them for resources. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST <http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST> <http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST <http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST <http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST> > > Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 12:57:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29910	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

The brand is Vigoro Decorative Marble chips. I'm not sure what type other than what it says on the bag. " What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH?" - Sorry if I sound ignorant, but my API test does not have tests for GH and KH, what is that? Where can I find the answer to that question? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:02:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel It depends on what the "marble chips" actually are. See if you can find out what kind of rock chips they really are. Do you have a brand/product name on the bag? What kind of fish do you plan on keeping? What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH? Here are some articles I have in my favorites folder about rocks as substrates/decorations. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml (Read down to where he talks about limestone and then marble chips) http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:27:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:02:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29911	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

Steve, what do you think of using filter media designed to specifically remove phosphates adn silicates from water? My tap water has .75 - 1.0 ppm phosphates and 6 to 7 ppm silica - that's silica, not silicates. I don't know if that's high. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Brown algae could be dead or dying algae, or it is diatoms. If the latter, it generally grows in sheets, and is easily wiped off the surfaces it is on (rough surfaces may require a brush). The presence of diatoms indicates an excess of silicates in the water. If the silicates come from your substrate, this will be a stage that will pass when the silicates are no longer at a level that will support the diatoms. If the silicates are in your water source, they will continue to grow as you replenish the supply each time you do a water change. I do not know if there is an inexpensive method to measure silicates in your water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29912	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

Ion exchange resins have been available for a long time, and are safe to use. They last for a long time, if properly cared for, so the initial expense is mitigated by their long life. While it has been a long time since I have used any, they are considered to be safe and proper for the specific use they are meant for. While we have used the term silicates in the discussion of diatoms, it has been used as a catch all term. Silica would most certainly contribute to diatom growth. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Steve, what do you think of using filter media designed to specifically remove phosphates adn silicates from water? My tap water has .75 - 1.0 ppm phosphates and 6 to 7 ppm silica - that's silica, not silicates. I don't know if that's high. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Brown algae could be dead or dying algae, or it is diatoms. If the latter, it generally grows in sheets, and is easily wiped off the surfaces it is on (rough surfaces may require a brush). The presence of diatoms indicates an excess of silicates in the water. If the silicates come from your substrate, this will be a stage that will pass when the silicates are no longer at a level that will support the diatoms. If the silicates are in your water source, they will continue to grow as you replenish the supply each time you do a water change. I do not know if there is an inexpensive method to measure silicates in your water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29913	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Donna, You're having this algae problem in the Caudo fry tank? I would not use the peroxide then, at least until they get bigger. Many fry species have no sense yet to get out of the way of strange objects -- like a utensil (peroxide-filled eye dropper) hand held by you. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29914	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Dora, I don't know what you're driving at. What does your Brown Algae have anything to do at all with the subject of this thread -- Hair Algae? Brown algae is not even a plant and lives on silicates, not nitrogenous waste (nor even phosphates). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29915	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

Your not ignorant... just pre-informed! ;-) None of us knew these things before getting into the hobby or studying these things. You can find out a lot more about fish keeping in general by taking one or both of the fish keeping tutorials I have referenced on my blog on the A to Z of Fish Keeping page... the links are right near the top of that page. GH is General Hardness also referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits, mainly the dip strips. KH is Carbonate Hardness The API Master Test Kit does not include these but API does sell separate kits for these tests. Most of the time, these figures aren't needed but are useful when trying to isolate issues or problems. What is your tap water pH baseline? The API kit should have that test. The baseline is established by running your tap for a minute or two, then fill a gallon bucket. Test the pH. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait 24 more hours and test it again. This will tell you/us more about the buffering capacity of your tap water. Many public utilities add various buffers, mainly calcium carbonate, to the water supply to raise the pH so that it is above 7.0 while traveling through the public water supply pipes so the water is not acidic (below 7.0 pH). Acidic water, over the course of dozens of years will cause corrosion to certain pipe materials so they raise the pH to prevent this. Depending on the amount of buffers they add and how long the buffering capacity lasts will determine what your pH is out of the pipes and once it is exposed to air and light. The buffering capacities will go down even further in your tank once the overall ecology of the tank starts utilizing these minerals. This is why it's so important to do weekly PWC's in a fully stocked tank... to replace these necessary trace elements and minerals that are in water. Most chemicals deteriorate in effectiveness when exposed to air and light which is why so many medicines are packaged in brown/opaque bottles and sealed tight. What all this means is that if your water is on the hard side (higher GH) and has a higher pH (7.5+), then the marble chips would be less likely to leach anything but if your water is on the soft side and/or lower pH, then the marble chips would be more likely to leach. In reading the two websites I referred you to earlier, TheSkepticalAquarist implied Marble Chips, if truly marble chips and not a lesser quality product, was OK to use, while TheKrib's article implied that they should not be used for most fish unless the fish explicitly prefer very hard water which is why I also asked what kind of fish you were planning? I cannot find any kind of product information on the Vigoro Marble Chips... not even on Vigoro's website http://www.vigoro.com/ProductCategories/ I was hoping to find an MSDS sheet to see if more info could be gleaned about how stable these marble chips were. The other choice is to test them using the acid tests mentioned on the two websites that I gave you earlier. I see most of your replies are from your blackberry. Do you have normal internet access also? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel The brand is Vigoro Decorative Marble chips. I'm not sure what type other than what it says on the bag. " What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH?" - Sorry if I sound ignorant, but my API test does not have tests for GH and KH, what is that? Where can I find the answer to that question? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:02:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel It depends on what the "marble chips" actually are. See if you can find out what kind of rock chips they really are. Do you have a brand/product name on the bag? What kind of fish do you plan on keeping? What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH? Here are some articles I have in my favorites folder about rocks as substrates/decorations. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> (Read down to where he talks about limestone and then marble chips) http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:27:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:02:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 4:40:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:20:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29916	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

Lenny, As per your request, here are my test results for today: *Tap PH: 8.8 --- 10 Gal: Temp: 78 (has med. lighting, is lightly planted) PH: 7.2 Ammo: .25 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 10 --- 55 Gal: Temp: 73 PH: 7.2 Ammo: .25 or less Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 5 I also put the 6 tetras in the 55 G so that leaves in the 10 G: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 4 baby Guppies, 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp Maybe I should move the frogs too? Sincerely, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:11:26 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Hey Lenny, WOW! That was a reply! Thanks :D. I will do the tests and report back the results for you so you can see what's up. I actually have read your tutorials, but its usually late at nite and maybe I missed a few parts of the info if I dozed off. I will review the info again. My tanks are about 3 mos. Old approx? My cycling was with fish, I guess its still cycling. I was more clueless back then, ay ay ay! Guess I still am. So I don't need to add aquarium salt at all then? I guess I will take all that stuff back and look for Prime, sounds good. As for your restocking suggestion, earlier today I did a test with the guppies, I put them in the big 55 G tank and my Female Bettas ganged up on them. As soon as I saw one get nipped, I scooped them out, and that took all of 4 seconds, so I guess they can't go. Weird how the Male doesn't bother them right? I will prob. Have to upgrade my 10 G once they start breeding I suppose, I wanted to anyway. Do you really think my Ghost shrimp won't last? None of my fish seem interested in them, although the Betta did eat 3 of the baby Guppies that were smaller. Don't the shrimp eat detritus? I know Amanos do, but do these? I will definitely move out the Neon Tetras, they're a challenge to catch though! Thanks so much for your help, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:51:10 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water I'm going to answer with "LENNY'S REPLY" following each paragraph below, since you have a lot of questions. You also NEED to go to my blog and read my long article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as I suspect some of your problems are related to that. Also go to my "A to Z of Fish Keeping..." page and read up on Cycling With Fish (link near the top) and take one or both of the FREE online fish keeping tutorials so you'll have a better basic understanding of things. Also see my article on "Establishing your tap water baseline" and give us those numbers at the three intervals. Give us your pH and water temperature ASAP. If your pH is under 7.5, then your 1.0ppm ammonia levels are probably not toxic but ultimately, they will come down to 0.0ppm once your tank is cycled. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. LENNY'S REPLY - I'm not so sure you've improved it although it may appear to be improved. Read on. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... LENNY'S REPLY - How long have the tanks been set up? I'm guessing not long since you said you are a beginner.... we all were at one time! Did you fishless cycle or cycle with fish? Do you understand "The Nitrogen Cycle" and how it works in your tank and filter systems? Were the tanks ever fully cycled? You may be messing up by following the instructions of the PetsMart people or even the filter manufacturers which is a common problem that I see for beginners. If you've read my long article on "Filter Maintenance...", you'll know what I'm talking about here. I see further down that you give your tank stocking and your 10G is overstocked which could be a big part of your problems with that tank. I'll address stocking suggestions following that paragraph. I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! LENNY'S REPLY - It's GREAT that you now have your own master test kit. That will go a long way in helping you "cycle" your tanks properly and start to understand a little more about water chemistry. Most tap water in the USA is treated with Chloramine which will show a slight level of ammonia in your tests since Chloramine is made up of chlorine and ammonia. If your tanks were fully cycled, this would not be an issue as that small amount of ammonia would be taken care of by the nitrifying bacteria (aka bio-filtration) in a properly cycled tank. If your tanks were fully cycled and you did a 25% PWC, you would only be adding 0.25ppm of ammonia which is not very much considering a fully stocked, properly maintained tank handles about 5.0ppm of ammonia per day. So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. LENNY'S REPLY - Why are you still listening to the PetsMart people? Aren't they the main reason you are in the position you are in? Maybe not, but 90% of the issues I see in forums are caused by people listening to pet store employees who do not have a clue on how to keep fish healthy and alive for the long term. There is also a chance that the products they sold you are giving you false readings on your tests. 99% of the JUNK products they sell on the shelves at pet stores simply are NOT needed 99% of the time. While the Zeolite mineral that is used for the ammo chips are OK for emergency situations (1.0ppm of ammonia is NOT an emergency), they will only make your problems worse in the long run. Presuming your tanks are not fully cycled or something happened to put the tanks into mini-cycles, the Zeolite will only be starving your nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia they need to survive and grow a proper sized colony to handle the bioload of your tank(s). Unfortunately, when cycling with fish, or if something happened to your bio-filtration (nitrifying bacteria), you have to allow the ammonia levels to remain between 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm in order to slowly build up the N-bacteria colonies to a size where they can once again handle 5.0ppm per day. Bring back all of the chemicals and filter additives they sold you and get a bottle of Prime which is a dechlor product that also helps make ammonia non-toxic. It will still be an ammonia by-product that the nitrifying bacteria can eat and grow their colonies. All the ammo-chips are doing is sucking up the ammonia which is starving your N-bacteria colonies so you'll never get your tank cycled properly. Also, for some people using ammo-chips or Zeolite based products, if you add salt to the tank, the sale will cause the Zeolite to release ALL of the ammonia which really makes a mess of things quickly (salt is not required with your fish except maybe the guppies but they are not your primary fish so they'll have to get along without the salt). Re-test your tanks daily and post your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and temperature so I can get a firm idea of what is happening in your tanks. What is your pH out the tap? In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! LENNY'S REPLY - You do not need to filter that little bit of ammonia out. All you need to do is get your tanks properly cycled and properly stocked, then you will no longer have ammonia issues. Since you seem to be stuck with "Cycling With Fish", use the Prime as your dechlor product to make the ammonia non-toxic. Once you are fully cycled and you understand what NOT to do that might mess up your N-bacteria, then you can use a simple dechlor product like API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They are the two dechlors that I use for my tanks... preferably the API brand but I can't always find it in stock in the 16 oz. size at my local PetsMart, so I have to get the 8 oz of TopFin's brand as my second most cost effective choice. Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp LENNY'S REPLY - I believe ADF's need at least 2.5G each so just them three kind of fills out the 10G. Definitely remove the tetras and the guppies from the 10G to reduce the bioload on the 10G, especially before the guppies start breeding. You may be able to make it with just the ADF's, the Betta and the Mystery Snails. The ghost shrimps are just un-caught food in the tank. *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. LENNY'S REPLY - The ghost shrimp will likely be future meals so they don't really count. This tank could handle the six neon's and the guppies which would help out your 10G tremendously. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 2:51:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29917	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Cleaning Gravel in planted tank

Dear Lenny + friends, I have bought some plants and bulbs for my tank. I'm wondering about how to go about Cleaning the Gravel in my planted tank. Can I move the plants around each time? I've seen some aquatic landscaping and it seems like the plants are pretty permanent in there. Also, what kind of fertilizer should I use and is it necessary? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29918	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

I don't know whether or not I need the hardness, but we have some left over bags of it + my Husband suggested I use it as decoration in one of my tanks. I did drop 1 chip in my smaller tank, but I am not sure if that has affected it. Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:30:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel If the chips are indeed marble, probably not, unless you wish to maintain a certain level of hardness of your water. Marble is a form of calcium carbonate, which will dissolve, albeit slowly, in water. However, despite the slowness, it will affect your water chemistry. If you do need to maintain a certain level of water hardness, you are better off using a product that will do this for you so you can add it in measured amounts so the water chemistry will not be radically affected. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29919	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Won't the Caudo's parents be keeping them herded into a safe area? I was presuming Donna wouldn't use the HP in the area where they were being isolated. Of course, the parents might just attack Donna's hand if she gets too close anyhow. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, You're having this algae problem in the Caudo fry tank? I would not use the peroxide then, at least until they get bigger. Many fry species have no sense yet to get out of the way of strange objects -- like a utensil (peroxide-filled eye dropper) hand held by you. Ray </HTML> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:25:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29920	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

For some reason I can't view in high power on either microscope, but I took some more photos on my older microscope, and you can make out alot more detail. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Since "brown algae" isn't really algae anyhow, I'm sure it's not going to look like algae under a microscope. Diatoms are microscopic critters that form on surface areas of a tank and use the silicates in the water to build little shells around them which are brown in most cases in FW aquaria but can be many different colors in SW http://bio1903.nicerweb.com/Locked/media/lab/diversity/protista/img/Diatoms. jpg. Since they form on surfaces like many algae do, people thought they were a "brown algae" until it was later learned what they truly were. Here's a long article all about "brown algae" with links to university websites with microscopic pics for you to compare. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml They usually diminish as a visible issue after a few months in a new tank as the overall ecology of the tank forms and out competes them for resources. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST <http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST> Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 12:57:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:22:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29921	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

Ion exchange resins is what is in the filter media for phosphates and silicates? Marine Depot has a particular variety - Phos Zorb on sale for $6 or $7. Is it as good? Or atleast good enough? And how often do I change it? I guess you use only a small amount in your filter media? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Ion exchange resins have been available for a long time, and are safe to use. They last for a long time, if properly cared for, so the initial expense is mitigated by their long life. While it has been a long time since I have used any, they are considered to be safe and proper for the specific use they are meant for. While we have used the term silicates in the discussion of diatoms, it has been used as a catch all term. Silica would most certainly contribute to diatom growth. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Steve, what do you think of using filter media designed to specifically remove phosphates adn silicates from water? My tap water has .75 - 1.0 ppm phosphates and 6 to 7 ppm silica - that's silica, not silicates. I don't know if that's high. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Brown algae could be dead or dying algae, or it is diatoms. If the latter, it generally grows in sheets, and is easily wiped off the surfaces it is on (rough surfaces may require a brush). The presence of diatoms indicates an excess of silicates in the water. If the silicates come from your substrate, this will be a stage that will pass when the silicates are no longer at a level that will support the diatoms. If the silicates are in your water source, they will continue to grow as you replenish the supply each time you do a water change. I do not know if there is an inexpensive method to measure silicates in your water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29922	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

You would need to follow the instructions for usage of the product. Here is a link describing usage from the Drs. Foster & Smith web site: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/add_info.cfm?pCatId=5069 Apparently this product is not renewable, and needs to be replaced ever few months. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Ion exchange resins is what is in the filter media for phosphates and silicates? Marine Depot has a particular variety - Phos Zorb on sale for $6 or $7. Is it as good? Or atleast good enough? And how often do I change it? I guess you use only a small amount in your filter media? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Ion exchange resins have been available for a long time, and are safe to use. They last for a long time, if properly cared for, so the initial expense is mitigated by their long life. While it has been a long time since I have used any, they are considered to be safe and proper for the specific use they are meant for. While we have used the term silicates in the discussion of diatoms, it has been used as a catch all term. Silica would most certainly contribute to diatom growth. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Steve, what do you think of using filter media designed to specifically remove phosphates adn silicates from water? My tap water has .75 - 1.0 ppm phosphates and 6 to 7 ppm silica - that's silica, not silicates. I don't know if that's high. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Brown algae could be dead or dying algae, or it is diatoms. If the latter, it generally grows in sheets, and is easily wiped off the surfaces it is on (rough surfaces may require a brush). The presence of diatoms indicates an excess of silicates in the water. If the silicates come from your substrate, this will be a stage that will pass when the silicates are no longer at a level that will support the diatoms. If the silicates are in your water source, they will continue to grow as you replenish the supply each time you do a water change. I do not know if there is an inexpensive method to measure silicates in your water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29923	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

OK. As you see, your right out the tap pH is much higher but then goes down quite a bit once it is in your tanks. Seeing this large drop means you should not do large PWC's as you would be changing the pH of the tank too much, too fast which could be harmful to the fish. With a drop in pH of 1.6, I would stick to 10% to 15% PWC's which would only change the pH by no more than 0.2 at one time which is considered a safe amount. The other option, if you do have to do a larger 25% PWC, in order to vacuum your gravel properly, you could just refill the tank partially, then wait a couple of hours and finish refilling the tank to give the fish a chance to acclimate to the rising pH. I also see you still have ammonia readings which means your tanks are not fully cycled, which we kind of already knew. Although you are showing nitrates, which typically would indicate that a tank is cycled, if the ammonia and nitrites were both 0.0ppm, your nitrate level could be coming from your tap water. U.S. EPA guidelines allow for up to 10ppm of nitrates in our tap water. Some communities have much higher levels. I wish I could tell you more about your ADF's but I've never kept them and do not know as much about them except for what I've read on care sheets and in various forum posts, but it seems that if they are getting along with the male betta, then the 10G would be OK for the three of them and the male betta. I'm guessing you will be moving the guppies when they get a little bigger. The Mystery snails are not a huge bioload and many people consider them a neutral bioload since they also help with tank cleaning. Now if they start breeding, you'll have to move all of their babies. They do not breed as much as nuisance snails but when they do decide to breed, they can have hundreds of babies. You'll see a clutch of their eggs stuck to the glass or filter tube right above the water line. You should read up more on them so you'll be ready if this happens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Lenny, As per your request, here are my test results for today: *Tap PH: 8.8 --- 10 Gal: Temp: 78 (has med. lighting, is lightly planted) PH: 7.2 Ammo: .25 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 10 --- 55 Gal: Temp: 73 PH: 7.2 Ammo: .25 or less Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 5 I also put the 6 tetras in the 55 G so that leaves in the 10 G: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 4 baby Guppies, 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp Maybe I should move the frogs too? Sincerely, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:11:26 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Hey Lenny, WOW! That was a reply! Thanks :D. I will do the tests and report back the results for you so you can see what's up. I actually have read your tutorials, but its usually late at nite and maybe I missed a few parts of the info if I dozed off. I will review the info again. My tanks are about 3 mos. Old approx? My cycling was with fish, I guess its still cycling. I was more clueless back then, ay ay ay! Guess I still am. So I don't need to add aquarium salt at all then? I guess I will take all that stuff back and look for Prime, sounds good. As for your restocking suggestion, earlier today I did a test with the guppies, I put them in the big 55 G tank and my Female Bettas ganged up on them. As soon as I saw one get nipped, I scooped them out, and that took all of 4 seconds, so I guess they can't go. Weird how the Male doesn't bother them right? I will prob. Have to upgrade my 10 G once they start breeding I suppose, I wanted to anyway. Do you really think my Ghost shrimp won't last? None of my fish seem interested in them, although the Betta did eat 3 of the baby Guppies that were smaller. Don't the shrimp eat detritus? I know Amanos do, but do these? I will definitely move out the Neon Tetras, they're a challenge to catch though! Thanks so much for your help, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:51:10 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water I'm going to answer with "LENNY'S REPLY" following each paragraph below, since you have a lot of questions. You also NEED to go to my blog and read my long article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as I suspect some of your problems are related to that. Also go to my "A to Z of Fish Keeping..." page and read up on Cycling With Fish (link near the top) and take one or both of the FREE online fish keeping tutorials so you'll have a better basic understanding of things. Also see my article on "Establishing your tap water baseline" and give us those numbers at the three intervals. Give us your pH and water temperature ASAP. If your pH is under 7.5, then your 1.0ppm ammonia levels are probably not toxic but ultimately, they will come down to 0.0ppm once your tank is cycled. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. LENNY'S REPLY - I'm not so sure you've improved it although it may appear to be improved. Read on. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... LENNY'S REPLY - How long have the tanks been set up? I'm guessing not long since you said you are a beginner.... we all were at one time! Did you fishless cycle or cycle with fish? Do you understand "The Nitrogen Cycle" and how it works in your tank and filter systems? Were the tanks ever fully cycled? You may be messing up by following the instructions of the PetsMart people or even the filter manufacturers which is a common problem that I see for beginners. If you've read my long article on "Filter Maintenance...", you'll know what I'm talking about here. I see further down that you give your tank stocking and your 10G is overstocked which could be a big part of your problems with that tank. I'll address stocking suggestions following that paragraph. I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! LENNY'S REPLY - It's GREAT that you now have your own master test kit. That will go a long way in helping you "cycle" your tanks properly and start to understand a little more about water chemistry. Most tap water in the USA is treated with Chloramine which will show a slight level of ammonia in your tests since Chloramine is made up of chlorine and ammonia. If your tanks were fully cycled, this would not be an issue as that small amount of ammonia would be taken care of by the nitrifying bacteria (aka bio-filtration) in a properly cycled tank. If your tanks were fully cycled and you did a 25% PWC, you would only be adding 0.25ppm of ammonia which is not very much considering a fully stocked, properly maintained tank handles about 5.0ppm of ammonia per day. So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. LENNY'S REPLY - Why are you still listening to the PetsMart people? Aren't they the main reason you are in the position you are in? Maybe not, but 90% of the issues I see in forums are caused by people listening to pet store employees who do not have a clue on how to keep fish healthy and alive for the long term. There is also a chance that the products they sold you are giving you false readings on your tests. 99% of the JUNK products they sell on the shelves at pet stores simply are NOT needed 99% of the time. While the Zeolite mineral that is used for the ammo chips are OK for emergency situations (1.0ppm of ammonia is NOT an emergency), they will only make your problems worse in the long run. Presuming your tanks are not fully cycled or something happened to put the tanks into mini-cycles, the Zeolite will only be starving your nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia they need to survive and grow a proper sized colony to handle the bioload of your tank(s). Unfortunately, when cycling with fish, or if something happened to your bio-filtration (nitrifying bacteria), you have to allow the ammonia levels to remain between 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm in order to slowly build up the N-bacteria colonies to a size where they can once again handle 5.0ppm per day. Bring back all of the chemicals and filter additives they sold you and get a bottle of Prime which is a dechlor product that also helps make ammonia non-toxic. It will still be an ammonia by-product that the nitrifying bacteria can eat and grow their colonies. All the ammo-chips are doing is sucking up the ammonia which is starving your N-bacteria colonies so you'll never get your tank cycled properly. Also, for some people using ammo-chips or Zeolite based products, if you add salt to the tank, the sale will cause the Zeolite to release ALL of the ammonia which really makes a mess of things quickly (salt is not required with your fish except maybe the guppies but they are not your primary fish so they'll have to get along without the salt). Re-test your tanks daily and post your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and temperature so I can get a firm idea of what is happening in your tanks. What is your pH out the tap? In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! LENNY'S REPLY - You do not need to filter that little bit of ammonia out. All you need to do is get your tanks properly cycled and properly stocked, then you will no longer have ammonia issues. Since you seem to be stuck with "Cycling With Fish", use the Prime as your dechlor product to make the ammonia non-toxic. Once you are fully cycled and you understand what NOT to do that might mess up your N-bacteria, then you can use a simple dechlor product like API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They are the two dechlors that I use for my tanks... preferably the API brand but I can't always find it in stock in the 16 oz. size at my local PetsMart, so I have to get the 8 oz of TopFin's brand as my second most cost effective choice. Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp LENNY'S REPLY - I believe ADF's need at least 2.5G each so just them three kind of fills out the 10G. Definitely remove the tetras and the guppies from the 10G to reduce the bioload on the 10G, especially before the guppies start breeding. You may be able to make it with just the ADF's, the Betta and the Mystery Snails. The ghost shrimps are just un-caught food in the tank. *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. LENNY'S REPLY - The ghost shrimp will likely be future meals so they don't really count. This tank could handle the six neon's and the guppies which would help out your 10G tremendously. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 2:51:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:25:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:46:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29924	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: interesting

yes that catfish was pretty awesome too. On 9/13/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yeah, I've seen most of the giant fish pics out there. Those Mekong > Catfish > are even more impressive than the barb. 10' long, 650 pounds... now that's > a tank buster! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of L. Gove > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 3:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] interesting > > cool.. i'll check it out! > but did u see that barb... OMG! that is ONE huge barb! > > On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > While at that page, I navigated to this one... > > > > http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/animals/fish-animals/ > > <http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/animals/fish-animals > > /> > > > > Watch the video through the other animals "wrestling" until you see > > the two Oscars (I think.. or some kind of big cichlid) mouth wrestling > > (looked like they were just screaming at each other at first..lol) > > over a cave and then a mouth brooder with about 100 fry looking out at > > the camera from the parents mouth. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> < > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of L. Gove > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 3:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] interesting > > > > U have to see this Barb! > > > > hope this is ok to post... was looking for a shark for my desktop and > > i came across these megafish thought ya would all like to see. > > > > http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-galler > > y/gian > > <http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-galle > > ry/gian> > > t-barb-megafish-gallery.html > > < > > http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-galler > > y/gia > > <http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/photos/megafishes-galle > > ry/gia> > > nt-barb-megafish-gallery.html> > > > > On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto: > GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com<GoldLenny%2540gmail.com> > > <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > It probably is still fine. Do you have chlorine or chloramine in > > > your tap water? In either case, the water should not have become > > > stagnant or anything like that after only five days. > > > > > > I'm presuming you haven't done any kind of cleaning of the kitchen > > > where the water would have been exposed to aerosols or other > > > cleaning solutions... or anything the grandkids might have done to the > water. > > > LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> < > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> < > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> >> < > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of vivian bradish > > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:19 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I still use this water? > > > > > > Long story short, I bought 2 new 5 gallons buckets and filled them > > > Tues night to do a gravel cleaning and water change. Had all > > > intentions of doing it Weds, but I have been stuck babysitting for > > > the grandkids since then and have not had the chance to do it. I > > > want to do the cleaning tomorrow, is it still ok to use this water > > > that has been sitting in those buckets in the kitchen for 5 days? > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 > > 3:44:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > on yahoo kwelyroos71 > on MSN kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40live.com> <mailto: > kwelyroos71%40live.com <kwelyroos71%2540live.com>> on aol > kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 > dark.moon.crafts@... <dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> <mailto: > dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com <dark.moon.crafts%2540gmail.com>> > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> <mailto: > kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com <kwelyroos71%2540yahoo.com>> kwelyroos71@...<kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> > <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com <kwelyroos71%2540gmail.com>> > www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering > www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak > www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 > Tested on: 9/13/2008 3:59:54 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 > Tested on: 9/13/2008 4:06:37 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29925	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning Gravel in planted tank

Hopefully you've bought some easy to grow plants. Do you know what the common and/or latin names are for the plants you've purchased? If they are not easy to grow, you would be better off returning them as I'm not sure you are ready for a more extravagant tank set up. Otherwise, the plants could die and cause you even more water quality issues. Here are lists of Very Easy and Easy to grow aquatic plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> &filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> &filter_by=3 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning Gravel in planted tank Dear Lenny + friends, I have bought some plants and bulbs for my tank. I'm wondering about how to go about Cleaning the Gravel in my planted tank. Can I move the plants around each time? I've seen some aquatic landscaping and it seems like the plants are pretty permanent in there. Also, what kind of fertilizer should I use and is it necessary? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:25:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:50:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

Since I haven't been able to find out much about your brand of marble chips, you should do the acid test on the chips to see how stable they are. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel I don't know whether or not I need the hardness, but we have some left over bags of it + my Husband suggested I use it as decoration in one of my tanks. I did drop 1 chip in my smaller tank, but I am not sure if that has affected it. Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:30:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel If the chips are indeed marble, probably not, unless you wish to maintain a certain level of hardness of your water. Marble is a form of calcium carbonate, which will dissolve, albeit slowly, in water. However, despite the slowness, it will affect your water chemistry. If you do need to maintain a certain level of water hardness, you are better off using a product that will do this for you so you can add it in measured amounts so the water chemistry will not be radically affected. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:25:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:54:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29927	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern most areas of AU. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cin Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the top end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june 2007 _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29928	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

Whew.. I must be having a senior moment but I'm not even a senior yet or maybe a blonde moment but I'm not a blonde either. LOL Now I'm going to Google for a refresher course on meteorological terms and enjoy my moment! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern most areas of AU. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cin Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the top end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june 2007 _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 7:35:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 7:43:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29929	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

i think they call hurricanes that happen in the Metranioan (sp?) typhoons On 9/13/08, Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer > waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://goldlenny./> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> > blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday > can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 > Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:42:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29930	From: Margie	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@...>: -------------- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer > waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday > can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 > Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:42:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29931	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

From wikipedia: Marble is a nonfoliated metamorphic rock resulting from the metamorphism of limestone, composed mostly of calcite (a crystalline form of calcium carbonate, CaCO3). I didn't know this. Marble is a very hard rock used for applications that need a tough, lasting but attractive surface, like counter tops, high end building stones, and bank lobby floors. I thought it was akin to quartz. That would explain the fuss about what to clean it with when I was a bank janitor, and they decided it would look better if they took off the finish it had worn. I'm like, this is a bank floor in Buffalo, NY, and it's stone, and it can only be cleaned with a little mild soap? I don't think so! We managed to negotiate an acceptable strong detergent. The limestone is reworked into some hard crystaline structure. However, Wikipedia has more surprises: Colorless or light-colored marbles are a very pure source of calcium carbonate, which is used in a wide variety of industries. Finely ground marble or calcium carbonate powder is a component in paper, and in consumer products such as toothpaste, plastics, and paints. Ground calcium carbonate can be made from limestone, chalk, and marble; about three-quarters of the ground calcium carbonate worldwide is made from marble. Ground calcium carbonate is used as a coating pigment for paper because of its high brightness and as a paper filler because it strengthens the sheet and imparts high brightness. Ground calcium carbonate is used in consumer products such as a food additive, in toothpaste, and as an inert filler in pills. I was certain that calcium carbonate comes from ground chalk or similar high quality limestone. If it can be ground to calcium carbonate I wonder if it is not too reactive for the fresh water aquarium. And consider that we weren't supposed to use acid cleaners on the bank lobby floor. I also wonder: How common is it to find pure white marble? Until now I would ahve wondered why anyone would want to find pure white marble. Oh, well, I suppose maybe for the Narnia look or something. Marble is supposed to look marbled; that's a critical part of the whole point to it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Since I haven't been able to find out much about your brand of marble chips, you should do the acid test on the chips to see how stable they are. Lenny Vasbinder -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of bubuci@... I don't know whether or not I need the hardness, but we have some left over bags of it + my Husband suggested I use it as decoration in one of my tanks. I did drop 1 chip in my smaller tank, but I am not sure if that has affected it. Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:30:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel If the chips are indeed marble, probably not, unless you wish to maintain a certain level of hardness of your water. Marble is a form of calcium carbonate, which will dissolve, albeit slowly, in water. However, despite the slowness, it will affect your water chemistry.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29932	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

Where? Hehehe We are even getting wind and rain warnings up here in Chicago from Ike Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike i think they call hurricanes that happen in the Metranioan (sp?) typhoons On 9/13/08, Eric Roberts <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> org> wrote: > > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer > waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny./> /> < > http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> blogspot.com/>> > blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday > can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 > Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:42:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@ <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com> live.com on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@ <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> gmail.com kwelyroos71@ <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com kwelyroos71@ <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> gmail.com www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29933	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

It doesn't look as though the parents are having much luck herding, LOL. But they are guarding. There have been no dives for the cave when I approach. The babies stay in a loose group but I don't know if the parents are causing that. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Won't the Caudo's parents be keeping them herded into a safe area? I was presuming Donna wouldn't use the HP in the area where they were being isolated. Of course, the parents might just attack Donna's hand if she gets too close anyhow. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, You're having this algae problem in the Caudo fry tank? I would not use the peroxide then, at least until they get bigger. Many fry species have no sense yet to get out of the way of strange objects -- like a utensil (peroxide-filled eye dropper) hand held by you. Ray </HTML> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:25:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29934	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Yes the caudos are in a community tank and I'm not planning on removing the fry. Six unpaired (until yesterday) Caudo's and six unpaired Calvus in a 38G tank. I'm raising Tangs, plants and snails in there, LOL! And mostly snails. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, You're having this algae problem in the Caudo fry tank? I would not use the peroxide then, at least until they get bigger. Many fry species have no sense yet to get out of the way of strange objects -- like a utensil (peroxide-filled eye dropper) hand held by you. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29935	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Well and Chlorine Questions

I know it's deep. I think they were afraid they weren't going to hit water, LOL. I live in NJ in an area will lots of rock ledge underground. But think how clean and cold that water is. : ) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Badeen Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Well and Chlorine Questions Donna, When we had the same thing happen here, the well guy dumped a gallon of bleach down the well and then had us run the pump from an outside faucet for about 4 hours to rid the chlorine from the system. The reason for the chlorine is to clean the pipe that goes down to the water. Lots of stuff gets knocked in there when you're pulling a well. BTW, where do you live? 2500 ft deep for a water well is a LOT. Here in SE Michigan, wells are usually 80 to 100 ft down. Sure you're not drilling for oil? :) Linda Donna Ransome wrote: > It’s a private well. Someone else has the ammonia, not me. From my > original post: > > > > My well pump had to be replaced. The well guy had to chlorinate it (law). > So suddenly I have to deal with chlorine, at least until it dissipates. > > > > The well is over ½ mile deep drilled through solid rock (and other strata). > If something dies on the surface it is going to have no impact on this > water. > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29936	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Three days and total blackout (no light getting to the tank like cover it on all sides with something opaque) is recommended. Hopefully it won’t kill the plants as well. But that only kills the ones in there now, not more from arriving when you uncover the tank again. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Turning off the lights for a day will kill algae spores? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:53 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? OK so critique this plan: 1-Clean tank, removing as many snails and as much algae as possible. 2-Three day black out to kill remaining algae spores or whatever 3-Reduce lighting to 8 hours daily 4-Use Hydrogen Peroxide for any flare-ups thereafter I have to be careful with the cleaning as my new Caudo babies are tiny. I'll avoid their corner and check the siphon bucket before dumping. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, Unless you have large populations of aquarium plants (and do lots of PWC's), its near impossible to have exactly 0 amounts of nitrate, as this is constantly be created via the nitrogen cycle. As (unless your test results are showing you erroneous readings) your nitrates do seem to be at a very minimal level, you have a very healthy tank situation going on there for your fish. Now to address your hair algae problem, first as Lenny pointed out, your lighting duration is excessive -- whether broken up into two periods during the day or not. The tank is still receiving 11 hours of direct lighting, on top of any diffused room lighting you're mentioning. If the artificial (direct -- tank light) lighting is employed outside of the normal daylight period of diffused room lighting (very early morning, late evening) this will have an even greater effect n the total lighting received rather than having the tank lights on just during the daylight hours. As you made mention of, yes, Flourish Excel has deleterious effects on Valisneria (and also on Elodea, and other like delicate plants). As an alternative, you might consider trying Hydrogen Peroxide with judicial use of this agent in ridding the tank of this nuisance, as it will work and is used by aquarists for this purpose. The normal dosage to use is not to exceed 2 Tbs per 10 gallons -- mixed thoroughly before adding, and distributed widely as it is added to prevent any concentrated pockets of it; still, this is to be considered an extremely weak solution affecting nothing more than lower forms of plant life. Be aware that it is an oxygenator, and should always be used with caution because of that; as such, I would go with half that strength to start out with, to avoid any possible problems with the more delicate aquatic plants (Val), and go from there. If you prefer not to approach that half-concentration-solution, you may use an eye dropper, having only 2 teaspoons of Peroxide on hand for each 10 gallons of aquarium water, and apply (squirt) small amounts of this directly on this algae. Peroxide is very unstable and will very soon break down into water and free oxygen. What algae you don't eliminate with the first try, you can repeat this process certainly by the following day to feel safe (actually much sooner), as it really breaks down completely well within 20 minutes. The main caution you need to take is not to get this product too near your fish in its full strength. As this extremely minimal amount of it is spread throughout the water, its already breaking down, but besides that its so diluted at that point that its likely it would not even be effective in killing bacteria. Its often safely used in aquariums because of these reasons; I've used it myself, and have known many others to use it, but feel I need to throw this caution out there for the awareness of all. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29937	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

With the Calvus in the tank, the fry probably won’t be around TO mature very much longer, I might get a survivor or two. In addition, these fish breed every 2 months, so I’ll soon be overrun. The only thing drastic is the blackout are you concerned for the fry because of no food for 3 days? Wouldn’t HP be more of a risk for them? It’s a small tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Why not just wait a little while for the fry to mature before doing anything drastic. With the 8 hours of lighting, instead of 11, that will begin the process of diminishing your algae issue. Use a large needle-less syringe to spot treat the hair algae with the HP. Get your water tested for iron levels or a full barrage of tests. Your local county agent or university may do this for free. Check with other well owners for other ideas on free advanced testing. Since iron in your well water may be one of the causes, here's a long article on TheKrib.com about what was called "red algae" back then but is also called hair algae, beard algae, etc. http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html> com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html The article goes into detail on ways of controlling the iron levels. Also, a dechlor product that also treats for heavy metals will help with the iron issues. Here is Kordon's long article on heavy metals in aquaria and how a dechlor product treats the heavy metals. http://www.novalek. <http://www.novalek.com/kordon/articles/heavy_metals.html> com/kordon/articles/heavy_metals.html Thanks for bringing this up again as I've re-read some stuff I haven't look at in a while. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:53 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? OK so critique this plan: 1-Clean tank, removing as many snails and as much algae as possible. 2-Three day black out to kill remaining algae spores or whatever 3-Reduce lighting to 8 hours daily 4-Use Hydrogen Peroxide for any flare-ups thereafter I have to be careful with the cleaning as my new Caudo babies are tiny. I'll avoid their corner and check the siphon bucket before dumping. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, Unless you have large populations of aquarium plants (and do lots of PWC's), its near impossible to have exactly 0 amounts of nitrate, as this is constantly be created via the nitrogen cycle. As (unless your test results are showing you erroneous readings) your nitrates do seem to be at a very minimal level, you have a very healthy tank situation going on there for your fish. Now to address your hair algae problem, first as Lenny pointed out, your lighting duration is excessive -- whether broken up into two periods during the day or not. The tank is still receiving 11 hours of direct lighting, on top of any diffused room lighting you're mentioning. If the artificial (direct -- tank light) lighting is employed outside of the normal daylight period of diffused room lighting (very early morning, late evening) this will have an even greater effect n the total lighting received rather than having the tank lights on just during the daylight hours. As you made mention of, yes, Flourish Excel has deleterious effects on Valisneria (and also on Elodea, and other like delicate plants). As an alternative, you might consider trying Hydrogen Peroxide with judicial use of this agent in ridding the tank of this nuisance, as it will work and is used by aquarists for this purpose. The normal dosage to use is not to exceed 2 Tbs per 10 gallons -- mixed thoroughly before adding, and distributed widely as it is added to prevent any concentrated pockets of it; still, this is to be considered an extremely weak solution affecting nothing more than lower forms of plant life. Be aware that it is an oxygenator, and should always be used with caution because of that; as such, I would go with half that strength to start out with, to avoid any possible problems with the more delicate aquatic plants (Val), and go from there. If you prefer not to approach that half-concentration-solution, you may use an eye dropper, having only 2 teaspoons of Peroxide on hand for each 10 gallons of aquarium water, and apply (squirt) small amounts of this directly on this algae. Peroxide is very unstable and will very soon break down into water and free oxygen. What algae you don't eliminate with the first try, you can repeat this process certainly by the following day to feel safe (actually much sooner), as it really breaks down completely well within 20 minutes. The main caution you need to take is not to get this product too near your fish in its full strength. As this extremely minimal amount of it is spread throughout the water, its already breaking down, but besides that its so diluted at that point that its likely it would not even be effective in killing bacteria. Its often safely used in aquariums because of these reasons; I've used it myself, and have known many others to use it, but feel I need to throw this caution out there for the awareness of all. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 12:57:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:39:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29938	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

I think maybe that would depend on why the water out of his tap is relatively high ph and goes down in his tank. Some reasons would have to do with what goes on in the tank. In my case it has to do with the artificially high Ph of the water that comes out of my tap. Once air has a chance to dissolve in the water the ph lowers from 8.6 to 9.0 to 7.6 or less. So what I do is no matter how much water I am going to change, I bubble air through the water until it reaches the ph of 7.6. Today I had to change more water than I intended because I ran into some pockets of gravel with alot of stuff in it, and the tank didn't finish getting filled until air had bubbled through the second bucket for four or five hours and the ph was 7.6. On the other hand it is often true that if I siphoned the gravel than most of the dirt sinks to the bottom of the bucket and it is safe to scoop water off the top back into the tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water OK. As you see, your right out the tap pH is much higher but then goes down quite a bit once it is in your tanks. Seeing this large drop means you should not do large PWC's as you would be changing the pH of the tank too much, too fast which could be harmful to the fish. With a drop in pH of 1.6, I would stick to 10% to 15% PWC's which would only change the pH by no more than 0.2 at one time which is considered a safe amount. The other option, if you do have to do a larger 25% PWC, in order to vacuum your gravel properly, you could just refill the tank partially, then wait a couple of hours and finish refilling the tank to give the fish a chance to acclimate to the rising pH.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29939	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Did you check out that National Geographic video I mentioned in an earlier post on the Interesting thread? Near the end of the video was a mouth brooder with about 100 babies in the mouth and they'd come out to swim but when anything came near them, like the video camera, they all swam back into the parents mouth and were peeking out at the camera. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? It doesn't look as though the parents are having much luck herding, LOL. But they are guarding. There have been no dives for the cave when I approach. The babies stay in a loose group but I don't know if the parents are causing that. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Won't the Caudo's parents be keeping them herded into a safe area? I was presuming Donna wouldn't use the HP in the area where they were being isolated. Of course, the parents might just attack Donna's hand if she gets too close anyhow. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, You're having this algae problem in the Caudo fry tank? I would not use the peroxide then, at least until they get bigger. Many fry species have no sense yet to get out of the way of strange objects -- like a utensil (peroxide-filled eye dropper) hand held by you. Ray </HTML> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:25:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 9:44:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 9:58:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29940	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Brown algae is algae and one wants to get rid of it. In my tank it is almost certainly living in part on the nitrogenous waste, since the nitrogenous wastes all dropped to 0 along with the phosphate level. But you clipped off what I said, so I may not be able to properly address its relevance. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Dora, I don't know what you're driving at. What does your Brown Algae have anything to do at all with the subject of this thread -- Hair Algae? Brown algae is not even a plant and lives on silicates, not nitrogenous waste (nor even phosphates). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29941	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

I'm sure I'd have to follow the directions on the product - but how well does it work? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank You would need to follow the instructions for usage of the product. Here is a link describing usage from the Drs. Foster & Smith web site: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/add_info.cfm?pCatId=5069 Apparently this product is not renewable, and needs to be replaced ever few months. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Ion exchange resins is what is in the filter media for phosphates and silicates? Marine Depot has a particular variety - Phos Zorb on sale for $6 or $7. Is it as good? Or atleast good enough? And how often do I change it? I guess you use only a small amount in your filter media? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Ion exchange resins have been available for a long time, and are safe to use. They last for a long time, if properly cared for, so the initial expense is mitigated by their long life. While it has been a long time since I have used any, they are considered to be safe and proper for the specific use they are meant for. While we have used the term silicates in the discussion of diatoms, it has been used as a catch all term. Silica would most certainly contribute to diatom growth. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Steve, what do you think of using filter media designed to specifically remove phosphates adn silicates from water? My tap water has .75 - 1.0 ppm phosphates and 6 to 7 ppm silica - that's silica, not silicates. I don't know if that's high. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Brown algae could be dead or dying algae, or it is diatoms. If the latter, it generally grows in sheets, and is easily wiped off the surfaces it is on (rough surfaces may require a brush). The presence of diatoms indicates an excess of silicates in the water. If the silicates come from your substrate, this will be a stage that will pass when the silicates are no longer at a level that will support the diatoms. If the silicates are in your water source, they will continue to grow as you replenish the supply each time you do a water change. I do not know if there is an inexpensive method to measure silicates in your water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29942	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning Gravel in planted tank

Lenny, she asked how to vacuum the gravel if it's planted with live plants, and I'd like to know that as well. I should think you couldn't just poke the siphon into the gravel if it's got plant roots in it. In a store near my house I've actually seen people have the plants planted above the gravel in little pots. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:50 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cleaning Gravel in planted tank Hopefully you've bought some easy to grow plants. Do you know what the common and/or latin names are for the plants you've purchased? If they are not easy to grow, you would be better off returning them as I'm not sure you are ready for a more extravagant tank set up. Otherwise, the plants could die and cause you even more water quality issues. Here are lists of Very Easy and Easy to grow aquatic plants. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning Gravel in planted tank Dear Lenny + friends, I have bought some plants and bulbs for my tank. I'm wondering about how to go about Cleaning the Gravel in my planted tank. Can I move the plants around each time?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29943	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:58 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Did you check out that National Geographic video I mentioned in an earlier post on the Interesting thread? Near the end of the video was a mouth brooder with about 100 babies in the mouth and they'd come out to swim but when anything came near them, like the video camera, they all swam back into the parents mouth and were peeking out at the camera. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? It doesn't look as though the parents are having much luck herding, LOL. But they are guarding. There have been no dives for the cave when I approach. The babies stay in a loose group but I don't know if the parents are causing that. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Won't the Caudo's parents be keeping them herded into a safe area? I was presuming Donna wouldn't use the HP in the area where they were being isolated. Of course, the parents might just attack Donna's hand if she gets too close anyhow. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, You're having this algae problem in the Caudo fry tank? I would not use the peroxide then, at least until they get bigger. Many fry species have no sense yet to get out of the way of strange objects -- like a utensil (peroxide-filled eye dropper) hand held by you. Ray </HTML> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:25:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 9:44:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 9:58:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29944	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

I've read many threads where people used the HP spot treating hair algae with fry in their tanks with no ill effect. Pond owners use HP to oxygenate their ponds when the water gets really hot down here in the south. Also, Barley Hay is often used in ponds to control algae and the reason it works is when Barley Hay decays, it puts out Hydrogen Peroxide. While it certainly wouldn't be good for the fish to be in direct contact with HP right out of the syringe, it's not bad in small doses of 1 oz. per 10G once it is diluted into the tank. The HP we can buy in our local stores is only a 3% solution and then with only 1 oz. per 10G, it's pretty much inert within moments after it is squirted onto the algae. HP is actually H2O2 so it's just water with an extra Oxygen molecule so once it does it's thing with oxidizing the algae, the extra O molecule is released and it's basically distilled water at that point. I have a couple of links to in-depth info about HP and hair algae if you want them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? With the Calvus in the tank, the fry probably won’t be around TO mature very much longer, I might get a survivor or two. In addition, these fish breed every 2 months, so I’ll soon be overrun. The only thing drastic is the blackout are you concerned for the fry because of no food for 3 days? Wouldn’t HP be more of a risk for them? It’s a small tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Why not just wait a little while for the fry to mature before doing anything drastic. With the 8 hours of lighting, instead of 11, that will begin the process of diminishing your algae issue. Use a large needle-less syringe to spot treat the hair algae with the HP. Get your water tested for iron levels or a full barrage of tests. Your local county agent or university may do this for free. Check with other well owners for other ideas on free advanced testing. Since iron in your well water may be one of the causes, here's a long article on TheKrib.com about what was called "red algae" back then but is also called hair algae, beard algae, etc. http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html> > > com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html The article goes into detail on ways of controlling the iron levels. Also, a dechlor product that also treats for heavy metals will help with the iron issues. Here is Kordon's long article on heavy metals in aquaria and how a dechlor product treats the heavy metals. http://www.novalek. <http://www.novalek.com/kordon/articles/heavy_metals.html <http://www.novalek.com/kordon/articles/heavy_metals.html <http://www.novalek.com/kordon/articles/heavy_metals.html> > > com/kordon/articles/heavy_metals.html Thanks for bringing this up again as I've re-read some stuff I haven't look at in a while. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:53 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? OK so critique this plan: 1-Clean tank, removing as many snails and as much algae as possible. 2-Three day black out to kill remaining algae spores or whatever 3-Reduce lighting to 8 hours daily 4-Use Hydrogen Peroxide for any flare-ups thereafter I have to be careful with the cleaning as my new Caudo babies are tiny. I'll avoid their corner and check the siphon bucket before dumping. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, Unless you have large populations of aquarium plants (and do lots of PWC's), its near impossible to have exactly 0 amounts of nitrate, as this is constantly be created via the nitrogen cycle. As (unless your test results are showing you erroneous readings) your nitrates do seem to be at a very minimal level, you have a very healthy tank situation going on there for your fish. Now to address your hair algae problem, first as Lenny pointed out, your lighting duration is excessive -- whether broken up into two periods during the day or not. The tank is still receiving 11 hours of direct lighting, on top of any diffused room lighting you're mentioning. If the artificial (direct -- tank light) lighting is employed outside of the normal daylight period of diffused room lighting (very early morning, late evening) this will have an even greater effect n the total lighting received rather than having the tank lights on just during the daylight hours. As you made mention of, yes, Flourish Excel has deleterious effects on Valisneria (and also on Elodea, and other like delicate plants). As an alternative, you might consider trying Hydrogen Peroxide with judicial use of this agent in ridding the tank of this nuisance, as it will work and is used by aquarists for this purpose. The normal dosage to use is not to exceed 2 Tbs per 10 gallons -- mixed thoroughly before adding, and distributed widely as it is added to prevent any concentrated pockets of it; still, this is to be considered an extremely weak solution affecting nothing more than lower forms of plant life. Be aware that it is an oxygenator, and should always be used with caution because of that; as such, I would go with half that strength to start out with, to avoid any possible problems with the more delicate aquatic plants (Val), and go from there. If you prefer not to approach that half-concentration-solution, you may use an eye dropper, having only 2 teaspoons of Peroxide on hand for each 10 gallons of aquarium water, and apply (squirt) small amounts of this directly on this algae. Peroxide is very unstable and will very soon break down into water and free oxygen. What algae you don't eliminate with the first try, you can repeat this process certainly by the following day to feel safe (actually much sooner), as it really breaks down completely well within 20 minutes. The main caution you need to take is not to get this product too near your fish in its full strength. As this extremely minimal amount of it is spread throughout the water, its already breaking down, but besides that its so diluted at that point that its likely it would not even be effective in killing bacteria. Its often safely used in aquariums because of these reasons; I've used it myself, and have known many others to use it, but feel I need to throw this caution out there for the awareness of all. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 12:57:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:39:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 9:44:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 10:11:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29945	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank

AS I said earlier, I have no experience with a phosphate remover, so I cannot offer a valid opinion about its efficacy. However, I do note that the main market is marine aquarists, so I would imagine that it does work, since they are, as a whole, a more demanding group of people. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I'm sure I'd have to follow the directions on the product - but how well does it work? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank You would need to follow the instructions for usage of the product. Here is a link describing usage from the Drs. Foster & Smith web site: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/add_info.cfm?pCatId=5069 Apparently this product is not renewable, and needs to be replaced ever few months. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Ion exchange resins is what is in the filter media for phosphates and silicates? Marine Depot has a particular variety - Phos Zorb on sale for $6 or $7. Is it as good? Or atleast good enough? And how often do I change it? I guess you use only a small amount in your filter media? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Ion exchange resins have been available for a long time, and are safe to use. They last for a long time, if properly cared for, so the initial expense is mitigated by their long life. While it has been a long time since I have used any, they are considered to be safe and proper for the specific use they are meant for. While we have used the term silicates in the discussion of diatoms, it has been used as a catch all term. Silica would most certainly contribute to diatom growth. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Steve, what do you think of using filter media designed to specifically remove phosphates adn silicates from water? My tap water has .75 - 1.0 ppm phosphates and 6 to 7 ppm silica - that's silica, not silicates. I don't know if that's high. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank Brown algae could be dead or dying algae, or it is diatoms. If the latter, it generally grows in sheets, and is easily wiped off the surfaces it is on (rough surfaces may require a brush). The presence of diatoms indicates an excess of silicates in the water. If the silicates come from your substrate, this will be a stage that will pass when the silicates are no longer at a level that will support the diatoms. If the silicates are in your water source, they will continue to grow as you replenish the supply each time you do a water change. I do not know if there is an inexpensive method to measure silicates in your water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone identify what's growing in my tank I looked at the brown algae in my aquarium under a microscope; don't know if it's algae or not. Can anyone who would know please take a look at my photos - under low power and a couple under medium power. There were also a couple of other things in the water. One protozoan. http://community.webshots.com/album/566847341WolpST Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29947	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: One of my swordtails died tonight.

He was beat up real bad this morning so I put him in the sick tank hoping with a little salt added in slowly that he would make it. Well he didnt. I have no clue what fish beat him up but it really sucks...I loved that fish. I know hes just a fish but he was one of my first fish. Do platys and swordtails have the abilty to beat each other up? He was bruised on his face and his top fin was shredded? Seems crazy to me. ~¤Heather¤~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29948	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: One of my swordtails died tonight.

I think any/all fish have the ability to be aggressive. You refer to the fish as "He" so I'm guessing it was a male. What was the stocking in the tank as far as males/females and total fish species? The other thing that comes to mind is whether he could have gotten caught in something. I once had a decoration in one of my tanks back in 2005 and when I adopted/saved some fish, I put two 3" Blue Gouramis in the tank and these Gouramis were always so skittish, probably due to the life they led up until the point I adopted them. One day, one of the darn gouramis tried to swim through a hole in this decoration that wasn't quite big enough for it. Fortunately I was home but I had to take the decoration out of the water and literally push the gourami backwards out of the hole. It's face, top of head and dorsal fin were beat up pretty bad but it recovered. Needless to say, that decoration didn't go back in that tank. You may want to look around for anything in the tank that the fish might have tried to swim through and got stuck. Then it may have been able to wriggle it's way out causing the injuries you describe. Another thing is the possibility that he was sick already and quite often, a sick fish will be picked on and harassed as part of basic Darwinism (survival of the fittest) kicking in. Had that fish been showing any signs of being sick like hiding? Usually, there would be tail fin damage as well since that is a common fin to attack first as it makes the fish less mobile so it can't get away from further aggression. Also check your other fish closely. If there was a fight, the other fish should have some evidence of the fight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] One of my swordtails died tonight. He was beat up real bad this morning so I put him in the sick tank hoping with a little salt added in slowly that he would make it. Well he didnt. I have no clue what fish beat him up but it really sucks...I loved that fish. I know hes just a fish but he was one of my first fish. Do platys and swordtails have the abilty to beat each other up? He was bruised on his face and his top fin was shredded? Seems crazy to me. ~¤Heather¤~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 2:01:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 2:15:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29949	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

Hello, Yes I do have some PC internet access, however, its rare as I am occupied by my toddler most of the time, he doesn't give me a chance to go online much, except from my BB. As for the acid test, ill read up on it, thx Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:20:57 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Your not ignorant... just pre-informed! ;-) None of us knew these things before getting into the hobby or studying these things. You can find out a lot more about fish keeping in general by taking one or both of the fish keeping tutorials I have referenced on my blog on the A to Z of Fish Keeping page... the links are right near the top of that page. GH is General Hardness also referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits, mainly the dip strips. KH is Carbonate Hardness The API Master Test Kit does not include these but API does sell separate kits for these tests. Most of the time, these figures aren't needed but are useful when trying to isolate issues or problems. What is your tap water pH baseline? The API kit should have that test. The baseline is established by running your tap for a minute or two, then fill a gallon bucket. Test the pH. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait 24 more hours and test it again. This will tell you/us more about the buffering capacity of your tap water. Many public utilities add various buffers, mainly calcium carbonate, to the water supply to raise the pH so that it is above 7.0 while traveling through the public water supply pipes so the water is not acidic (below 7.0 pH). Acidic water, over the course of dozens of years will cause corrosion to certain pipe materials so they raise the pH to prevent this. Depending on the amount of buffers they add and how long the buffering capacity lasts will determine what your pH is out of the pipes and once it is exposed to air and light. The buffering capacities will go down even further in your tank once the overall ecology of the tank starts utilizing these minerals. This is why it's so important to do weekly PWC's in a fully stocked tank... to replace these necessary trace elements and minerals that are in water. Most chemicals deteriorate in effectiveness when exposed to air and light which is why so many medicines are packaged in brown/opaque bottles and sealed tight. What all this means is that if your water is on the hard side (higher GH) and has a higher pH (7.5+), then the marble chips would be less likely to leach anything but if your water is on the soft side and/or lower pH, then the marble chips would be more likely to leach. In reading the two websites I referred you to earlier, TheSkepticalAquarist implied Marble Chips, if truly marble chips and not a lesser quality product, was OK to use, while TheKrib's article implied that they should not be used for most fish unless the fish explicitly prefer very hard water which is why I also asked what kind of fish you were planning? I cannot find any kind of product information on the Vigoro Marble Chips... not even on Vigoro's website http://www.vigoro.com/ProductCategories/ I was hoping to find an MSDS sheet to see if more info could be gleaned about how stable these marble chips were. The other choice is to test them using the acid tests mentioned on the two websites that I gave you earlier. I see most of your replies are from your blackberry. Do you have normal internet access also? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel The brand is Vigoro Decorative Marble chips. I'm not sure what type other than what it says on the bag. " What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH?" - Sorry if I sound ignorant, but my API test does not have tests for GH and KH, what is that? Where can I find the answer to that question? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:02:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel It depends on what the "marble chips" actually are. See if you can find out what kind of rock chips they really are. Do you have a brand/product name on the bag? What kind of fish do you plan on keeping? What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH? Here are some articles I have in my favorites folder about rocks as substrates/decorations. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> (Read down to where he talks about limestone and then marble chips) http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:27:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:02:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 4:40:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29950	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: One of my swordtails died tonight.

There are about 12 female platies 4 male platies 1 female swordtail and 2 male swords (1 now) and a few small baby platies that Im not sure what sex they are yet in a 55 gallon oh and one pleco and no other fish was bothered or hurt. The one that died had the not huge but not tiny white spot that after researching it 10 months ago seemed to be cancer or a tumor but that never slowed him down....until now maybe? I only have 1 large decoration in the tank that none of these fish could ever get stuck in and then live and fake plants and flat rocks that sit around some fake plants on the bottom. He was not hiding at all yesterday was fine when I went to bed but boy was he bad off this morning. His entire face was bruised and like I said top fin frayed and he was very pale but his sword was perfect which is rather odd now that you mention it. He was actually the aggressive one of the bunch usually. Im not real sure what happened. Its kinda odd. Im not overstocked...they have tons of room and they have all been together for quite sometime so maybe his white spot (cancer/tumor?) sickness was catching up with him. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One of my swordtails died tonight. I think any/all fish have the ability to be aggressive. You refer to the fish as "He" so I'm guessing it was a male. What was the stocking in the tank as far as males/females and total fish species? The other thing that comes to mind is whether he could have gotten caught in something. I once had a decoration in one of my tanks back in 2005 and when I adopted/saved some fish, I put two 3" Blue Gouramis in the tank and these Gouramis were always so skittish, probably due to the life they led up until the point I adopted them. One day, one of the darn gouramis tried to swim through a hole in this decoration that wasn't quite big enough for it. Fortunately I was home but I had to take the decoration out of the water and literally push the gourami backwards out of the hole. It's face, top of head and dorsal fin were beat up pretty bad but it recovered. Needless to say, that decoration didn't go back in that tank. You may want to look around for anything in the tank that the fish might have tried to swim through and got stuck. Then it may have been able to wriggle it's way out causing the injuries you describe. Another thing is the possibility that he was sick already and quite often, a sick fish will be picked on and harassed as part of basic Darwinism (survival of the fittest) kicking in. Had that fish been showing any signs of being sick like hiding? Usually, there would be tail fin damage as well since that is a common fin to attack first as it makes the fish less mobile so it can't get away from further aggression. Also check your other fish closely. If there was a fight, the other fish should have some evidence of the fight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] One of my swordtails died tonight. He was beat up real bad this morning so I put him in the sick tank hoping with a little salt added in slowly that he would make it. Well he didnt. I have no clue what fish beat him up but it really sucks...I loved that fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29951	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

Ok ill do the baseline, my API kit only has one PH test, I guess that's what ill use. As for moving the Guppies, remember the Guppies got attacked by the female Bettas when I put them in the big tank yesterday so I would assume that would happen again, + even more so when the colors on their tails come in. I'm thinking maybe I can put the females in with the male using a tank divider? However, my male will probably not be happy. He really swims around the entire tank, + does lots of showing off for me. I call him Flipper, he's the funniest Betta I've ever had and I'd hate to reduce his tank space with a divider, but again I may have to when the colors on the tails of the Guppies come in(maybe not, we'll see). For now, I can try moving my frogs to the 55 G. I had them there before, and the snails until my toddler got to them and killed one of each. You see, the 55G is a Coffee Table tank and it is uncovered, so they are basically sitting ducks in there as the frogs are pretty easy to catch as are the snails. When my toddler got to them, I didn't have gravel or stones at the bottom, only decorative hiding places, so every tank resident was easy to see. The good news is this week I put in some River Stone from top fin(looks great, hope its good for leaching). The fish are harder to see now and I'm sure the frogs would blend in well. Not sure about my snails though. Don't think so. So that would leave: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 4 baby Guppies, 2 mystery snails, + 3 Ghost Shrimp Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:46:42 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water OK. As you see, your right out the tap pH is much higher but then goes down quite a bit once it is in your tanks. Seeing this large drop means you should not do large PWC's as you would be changing the pH of the tank too much, too fast which could be harmful to the fish. With a drop in pH of 1.6, I would stick to 10% to 15% PWC's which would only change the pH by no more than 0.2 at one time which is considered a safe amount. The other option, if you do have to do a larger 25% PWC, in order to vacuum your gravel properly, you could just refill the tank partially, then wait a couple of hours and finish refilling the tank to give the fish a chance to acclimate to the rising pH. I also see you still have ammonia readings which means your tanks are not fully cycled, which we kind of already knew. Although you are showing nitrates, which typically would indicate that a tank is cycled, if the ammonia and nitrites were both 0.0ppm, your nitrate level could be coming from your tap water. U.S. EPA guidelines allow for up to 10ppm of nitrates in our tap water. Some communities have much higher levels. I wish I could tell you more about your ADF's but I've never kept them and do not know as much about them except for what I've read on care sheets and in various forum posts, but it seems that if they are getting along with the male betta, then the 10G would be OK for the three of them and the male betta. I'm guessing you will be moving the guppies when they get a little bigger. The Mystery snails are not a huge bioload and many people consider them a neutral bioload since they also help with tank cleaning. Now if they start breeding, you'll have to move all of their babies. They do not breed as much as nuisance snails but when they do decide to breed, they can have hundreds of babies. You'll see a clutch of their eggs stuck to the glass or filter tube right above the water line. You should read up more on them so you'll be ready if this happens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Lenny, As per your request, here are my test results for today: *Tap PH: 8.8 --- 10 Gal: Temp: 78 (has med. lighting, is lightly planted) PH: 7.2 Ammo: .25 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 10 --- 55 Gal: Temp: 73 PH: 7.2 Ammo: .25 or less Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 5 I also put the 6 tetras in the 55 G so that leaves in the 10 G: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 4 baby Guppies, 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp Maybe I should move the frogs too? Sincerely, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:11:26 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Hey Lenny, WOW! That was a reply! Thanks :D. I will do the tests and report back the results for you so you can see what's up. I actually have read your tutorials, but its usually late at nite and maybe I missed a few parts of the info if I dozed off. I will review the info again. My tanks are about 3 mos. Old approx? My cycling was with fish, I guess its still cycling. I was more clueless back then, ay ay ay! Guess I still am. So I don't need to add aquarium salt at all then? I guess I will take all that stuff back and look for Prime, sounds good. As for your restocking suggestion, earlier today I did a test with the guppies, I put them in the big 55 G tank and my Female Bettas ganged up on them. As soon as I saw one get nipped, I scooped them out, and that took all of 4 seconds, so I guess they can't go. Weird how the Male doesn't bother them right? I will prob. Have to upgrade my 10 G once they start breeding I suppose, I wanted to anyway. Do you really think my Ghost shrimp won't last? None of my fish seem interested in them, although the Betta did eat 3 of the baby Guppies that were smaller. Don't the shrimp eat detritus? I know Amanos do, but do these? I will definitely move out the Neon Tetras, they're a challenge to catch though! Thanks so much for your help, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:51:10 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water I'm going to answer with "LENNY'S REPLY" following each paragraph below, since you have a lot of questions. You also NEED to go to my blog and read my long article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as I suspect some of your problems are related to that. Also go to my "A to Z of Fish Keeping..." page and read up on Cycling With Fish (link near the top) and take one or both of the FREE online fish keeping tutorials so you'll have a better basic understanding of things. Also see my article on "Establishing your tap water baseline" and give us those numbers at the three intervals. Give us your pH and water temperature ASAP. If your pH is under 7.5, then your 1.0ppm ammonia levels are probably not toxic but ultimately, they will come down to 0.0ppm once your tank is cycled. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. LENNY'S REPLY - I'm not so sure you've improved it although it may appear to be improved. Read on. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... LENNY'S REPLY - How long have the tanks been set up? I'm guessing not long since you said you are a beginner.... we all were at one time! Did you fishless cycle or cycle with fish? Do you understand "The Nitrogen Cycle" and how it works in your tank and filter systems? Were the tanks ever fully cycled? You may be messing up by following the instructions of the PetsMart people or even the filter manufacturers which is a common problem that I see for beginners. If you've read my long article on "Filter Maintenance...", you'll know what I'm talking about here. I see further down that you give your tank stocking and your 10G is overstocked which could be a big part of your problems with that tank. I'll address stocking suggestions following that paragraph. I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! LENNY'S REPLY - It's GREAT that you now have your own master test kit. That will go a long way in helping you "cycle" your tanks properly and start to understand a little more about water chemistry. Most tap water in the USA is treated with Chloramine which will show a slight level of ammonia in your tests since Chloramine is made up of chlorine and ammonia. If your tanks were fully cycled, this would not be an issue as that small amount of ammonia would be taken care of by the nitrifying bacteria (aka bio-filtration) in a properly cycled tank. If your tanks were fully cycled and you did a 25% PWC, you would only be adding 0.25ppm of ammonia which is not very much considering a fully stocked, properly maintained tank handles about 5.0ppm of ammonia per day. So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. LENNY'S REPLY - Why are you still listening to the PetsMart people? Aren't they the main reason you are in the position you are in? Maybe not, but 90% of the issues I see in forums are caused by people listening to pet store employees who do not have a clue on how to keep fish healthy and alive for the long term. There is also a chance that the products they sold you are giving you false readings on your tests. 99% of the JUNK products they sell on the shelves at pet stores simply are NOT needed 99% of the time. While the Zeolite mineral that is used for the ammo chips are OK for emergency situations (1.0ppm of ammonia is NOT an emergency), they will only make your problems worse in the long run. Presuming your tanks are not fully cycled or something happened to put the tanks into mini-cycles, the Zeolite will only be starving your nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia they need to survive and grow a proper sized colony to handle the bioload of your tank(s). Unfortunately, when cycling with fish, or if something happened to your bio-filtration (nitrifying bacteria), you have to allow the ammonia levels to remain between 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm in order to slowly build up the N-bacteria colonies to a size where they can once again handle 5.0ppm per day. Bring back all of the chemicals and filter additives they sold you and get a bottle of Prime which is a dechlor product that also helps make ammonia non-toxic. It will still be an ammonia by-product that the nitrifying bacteria can eat and grow their colonies. All the ammo-chips are doing is sucking up the ammonia which is starving your N-bacteria colonies so you'll never get your tank cycled properly. Also, for some people using ammo-chips or Zeolite based products, if you add salt to the tank, the sale will cause the Zeolite to release ALL of the ammonia which really makes a mess of things quickly (salt is not required with your fish except maybe the guppies but they are not your primary fish so they'll have to get along without the salt). Re-test your tanks daily and post your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and temperature so I can get a firm idea of what is happening in your tanks. What is your pH out the tap? In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! LENNY'S REPLY - You do not need to filter that little bit of ammonia out. All you need to do is get your tanks properly cycled and properly stocked, then you will no longer have ammonia issues. Since you seem to be stuck with "Cycling With Fish", use the Prime as your dechlor product to make the ammonia non-toxic. Once you are fully cycled and you understand what NOT to do that might mess up your N-bacteria, then you can use a simple dechlor product like API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They are the two dechlors that I use for my tanks... preferably the API brand but I can't always find it in stock in the 16 oz. size at my local PetsMart, so I have to get the 8 oz of TopFin's brand as my second most cost effective choice. Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp LENNY'S REPLY - I believe ADF's need at least 2.5G each so just them three kind of fills out the 10G. Definitely remove the tetras and the guppies from the 10G to reduce the bioload on the 10G, especially before the guppies start breeding. You may be able to make it with just the ADF's, the Betta and the Mystery Snails. The ghost shrimps are just un-caught food in the tank. *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. LENNY'S REPLY - The ghost shrimp will likely be future meals so they don't really count. This tank could handle the six neon's and the guppies which would help out your 10G tremendously. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 2:51:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:25:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:46:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29952	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: One of my swordtails died tonight.

Well, with two males and one female, that raises the possibility of aggression. Your platy mix is a better ratio to limit aggression between males and/or harassment of females. You should consider getting more female swordtails if your tank can handle the additional bioload of the adult fish and the fry that will be sure to come so the male does not harass the lone female too much. This reputable profile on livebearers http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm also recommends this type of stocking.... "... Combine one male with several females...." Read the entire profile for more details. But now you also raise the tumor illness possibility as well. Where was the tumor located? Was it on his head/brain area where it might have caused things to get bad quick? It could just be that he got really sick in the middle of the night and the other fish, being fish, started trying to get rid of the sick fish.... or he could have gotten sick in the middle of the night and started spasming (if the tumor was brain or nervous system related) and swam into things or got caught on the filter intake or any number of things. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One of my swordtails died tonight. There are about 12 female platies 4 male platies 1 female swordtail and 2 male swords (1 now) and a few small baby platies that Im not sure what sex they are yet in a 55 gallon oh and one pleco and no other fish was bothered or hurt. The one that died had the not huge but not tiny white spot that after researching it 10 months ago seemed to be cancer or a tumor but that never slowed him down....until now maybe? I only have 1 large decoration in the tank that none of these fish could ever get stuck in and then live and fake plants and flat rocks that sit around some fake plants on the bottom. He was not hiding at all yesterday was fine when I went to bed but boy was he bad off this morning. His entire face was bruised and like I said top fin frayed and he was very pale but his sword was perfect which is rather odd now that you mention it. He was actually the aggressive one of the bunch usually. Im not real sure what happened. Its kinda odd. Im not overstocked...they have tons of room and they have all been together for quite sometime so maybe his white spot (cancer/tumor?) sickness was catching up with him. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One of my swordtails died tonight. I think any/all fish have the ability to be aggressive. You refer to the fish as "He" so I'm guessing it was a male. What was the stocking in the tank as far as males/females and total fish species? The other thing that comes to mind is whether he could have gotten caught in something. I once had a decoration in one of my tanks back in 2005 and when I adopted/saved some fish, I put two 3" Blue Gouramis in the tank and these Gouramis were always so skittish, probably due to the life they led up until the point I adopted them. One day, one of the darn gouramis tried to swim through a hole in this decoration that wasn't quite big enough for it. Fortunately I was home but I had to take the decoration out of the water and literally push the gourami backwards out of the hole. It's face, top of head and dorsal fin were beat up pretty bad but it recovered. Needless to say, that decoration didn't go back in that tank. You may want to look around for anything in the tank that the fish might have tried to swim through and got stuck. Then it may have been able to wriggle it's way out causing the injuries you describe. Another thing is the possibility that he was sick already and quite often, a sick fish will be picked on and harassed as part of basic Darwinism (survival of the fittest) kicking in. Had that fish been showing any signs of being sick like hiding? Usually, there would be tail fin damage as well since that is a common fin to attack first as it makes the fish less mobile so it can't get away from further aggression. Also check your other fish closely. If there was a fight, the other fish should have some evidence of the fight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] One of my swordtails died tonight. He was beat up real bad this morning so I put him in the sick tank hoping with a little salt added in slowly that he would make it. Well he didnt. I have no clue what fish beat him up but it really sucks...I loved that fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 3:30:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:27:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29953	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

When disrupting a pair of parenting Cichlids (such as these Caudo's), by thrusting your "giant" hand into their environment, you can be disrupting the efforts of these parents in their attempts to defend their offspring. While its extremely possible for these parents (one or both) to attack this hand, this can momentarily interupt their signalling to the spawn for them to gather in one safe place (deemed as a sheltered area by the parents), not necessarily promoting the fry's scattering but often allowing strays from the schoal. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29954	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

Typhoons (hurricanes) are so named by those in Southeast Asia. </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29955	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

I’ve seen it, that’s so cool isn’t it? You can’t imagine how they all fit. The mouthbrooders will do that for the first day or two after they spit the babies, and then then forget and swallow. This little Tang is not a mouthbrooder, however. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Did you check out that National Geographic video I mentioned in an earlier post on the Interesting thread? Near the end of the video was a mouth brooder with about 100 babies in the mouth and they'd come out to swim but when anything came near them, like the video camera, they all swam back into the parents mouth and were peeking out at the camera. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? It doesn't look as though the parents are having much luck herding, LOL. But they are guarding. There have been no dives for the cave when I approach. The babies stay in a loose group but I don't know if the parents are causing that. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Won't the Caudo's parents be keeping them herded into a safe area? I was presuming Donna wouldn't use the HP in the area where they were being isolated. Of course, the parents might just attack Donna's hand if she gets too close anyhow. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, You're having this algae problem in the Caudo fry tank? I would not use the peroxide then, at least until they get bigger. Many fry species have no sense yet to get out of the way of strange objects -- like a utensil (peroxide-filled eye dropper) hand held by you. Ray </HTML> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:25:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 9:44:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 9:58:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29956	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Well the giant hand has not yet been in the tank, but the babies seem to be quite few this am and the ones I saw ARE in the cave. Unfortunately the tank needs a water change as I delayed a week with the chlorinated well problem. Thanks for all the input everyone! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 6:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? When disrupting a pair of parenting Cichlids (such as these Caudo's), by thrusting your "giant" hand into their environment, you can be disrupting the efforts of these parents in their attempts to defend their offspring. While its extremely possible for these parents (one or both) to attack this hand, this can momentarily interupt their signalling to the spawn for them to gather in one safe place (deemed as a sheltered area by the parents), not necessarily promoting the fry's scattering but often allowing strays from the schoal. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29957	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Lenny et al, First I need to apologize for my recent method of replying (which cuts off the previous poster's message). I abhor having to do that, and as you must have seen up until lately, I've always taken the extra step to go to the groupsite to reply from there. With my current computer problems, it does not allow me access to the groupsite for more than 5 seconds without knocking me off of it. As a result, I have no other alternative but to reply directly from my New Mail (emails), which posts only my message. I do try to always include reference to the previous post to allow for easier following of the thread. On this current thread, I would only like to add a few points, and to mention why I stressed caution when working with hydrogen peroxide -- realizing that I'm not only posting (replying) to Donna, but that this information is being received by all member, including some beginners and those that may not be familiar with HP at all with its employment in the home aquarium. While this product is sold as "only" a 3% solution (which may not appear to be very strong at all), this product can cause irreversable (lethal) damage to fish when not diluted further in the water column, by burning their gills. As I stated, this is an oxidizer -- meaning it will immeasurably speed up both the metabolism of living tissue and the breakdown of any dead tissue when interacting with (any) organic matter -- essentially "burning" the tissue. This action can be easily seen if you've ever poured some on an open wound to disinfect it, although this is much speeded up since here its being used in a non-aqueous environment. Again, with speaking to the general membership, the caution needed to be taken is that when using it, you need to avoid any concentrations of it in close proximity to fish and particularly to fishes' gills, and to avoid contact of this product with this organ, in anywhere near its 3% bottled solution. Being H2O2 and therefore an unstable solution, as having an extra oxygen molecule, this is also an oxygenator, besides being an oxidizer, which can often be taken advantage of in ponds with decreasing oxygen contents as a quick short-term fix. Its often used by pond keepers as their water increases in temperature during Summer months, to temporarily boost the O2 content of the water. On these occasions, it is HIGHLY recommended to NEVER apply HP too near any fish which may otherwise be up near the surface to gain more dissolved atmospheric oxygen, but only to apply HP close enough to the fish (in small amounts) -- with caution of not apply it too close where the fish may immediately swim through it before it has the chance to dilute. This, to prevent this hydrogen peroxide from passing over the gills. Barley straw is used quite often in helping to promote some addition oxygen content to the water, but is done so unwittingly with its HP production's break down (of H2O and O2), as this is not its primary use since its decomposition is a slow process. ; this by-product is given off in small amounts anyway -- not greatly contributory to the oxygen content of the water To ensure immediately continuous and thorough distribution of any HP from decomposing Barley straw, it is usually recommended for it to be placed in the currents of a waterfall; its primary use being to control algae. This process can take 6 to 8 weeks to start (with decomposition), but is effective as after that time it will continue to give off a small but steadily active quantity of h. peroxide. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29958	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Dora, Your brown "algae" may be unsightly, and I can understand why you might want to get rid of it, but it IS NOT algae. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29959	From: Hans Brost	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer > waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern > most areas of AU. > A Typhoon is a Pacific Hurricane. A Cyclone is a Pacific/SE Asian Tornado......z

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29960	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

I'm fairly sure that Japan, which I would consider as part of S.E. Asia (being so close to China and the mainland) gets typhoons, unless you would consider Japan as being "Pacific," only because it consists of large islands. The whole of the eastern shore of the Asian continent borders with the Pacific. The southern shore of the Asian continent borders with the Indian Ocean, yet they still get typhoons in India! Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29961	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: One of my swordtails died tonight.

Yes the spot (tumor) was on the side of his head and had been there for 10 months will no ill affects. It never did grow bigger or wider or out unless it was such a slow progression that I just didnt notice. I was up until 6am watching my fish just to make sure all was ok and everyone else is just fine. So I am definitely leaning towards the thought that he may have been sick. Thanks Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One of my swordtails died tonight. Well, with two males and one female, that raises the possibility of aggression. Your platy mix is a better ratio to limit aggression between males and/or harassment of females. You should consider getting more female swordtails if your tank can handle the additional bioload of the adult fish and the fry that will be sure to come so the male does not harass the lone female too much. This reputable profile on livebearers http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm also recommends this type of stocking.... "... Combine one male with several females...." Read the entire profile for more details. But now you also raise the tumor illness possibility as well. Where was the tumor located? Was it on his head/brain area where it might have caused things to get bad quick? It could just be that he got really sick in the middle of the night and the other fish, being fish, started trying to get rid of the sick fish.... or he could have gotten sick in the middle of the night and started spasming (if the tumor was brain or nervous system related) and swam into things or got caught on the filter intake or any number of things. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One of my swordtails died tonight. There are about 12 female platies 4 male platies 1 female swordtail and 2 male swords (1 now) and a few small baby platies that Im not sure what sex they are yet in a 55 gallon oh and one pleco and no other fish was bothered or hurt. The one that died had the not huge but not tiny white spot that after researching it 10 months ago seemed to be cancer or a tumor but that never slowed him down....until now maybe? I only have 1 large decoration in the tank that none of these fish could ever get stuck in and then live and fake plants and flat rocks that sit around some fake plants on the bottom. He was not hiding at all yesterday was fine when I went to bed but boy was he bad off this morning. His entire face was bruised and like I said top fin frayed and he was very pale but his sword was perfect which is rather odd now that you mention it. He was actually the aggressive one of the bunch usually. Im not real sure what happened. Its kinda odd. Im not overstocked...they have tons of room and they have all been together for quite sometime so maybe his white spot (cancer/tumor?) sickness was catching up with him. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One of my swordtails died tonight. I think any/all fish have the ability to be aggressive. You refer to the fish as "He" so I'm guessing it was a male. What was the stocking in the tank as far as males/females and total fish species? The other thing that comes to mind is whether he could have gotten caught in something. I once had a decoration in one of my tanks back in 2005 and when I adopted/saved some fish, I put two 3" Blue Gouramis in the tank and these Gouramis were always so skittish, probably due to the life they led up until the point I adopted them. One day, one of the darn gouramis tried to swim through a hole in this decoration that wasn't quite big enough for it. Fortunately I was home but I had to take the decoration out of the water and literally push the gourami backwards out of the hole. It's face, top of head and dorsal fin were beat up pretty bad but it recovered. Needless to say, that decoration didn't go back in that tank. You may want to look around for anything in the tank that the fish might have tried to swim through and got stuck. Then it may have been able to wriggle it's way out causing the injuries you describe. Another thing is the possibility that he was sick already and quite often, a sick fish will be picked on and harassed as part of basic Darwinism (survival of the fittest) kicking in. Had that fish been showing any signs of being sick like hiding? Usually, there would be tail fin damage as well since that is a common fin to attack first as it makes the fish less mobile so it can't get away from further aggression. Also check your other fish closely. If there was a fight, the other fish should have some evidence of the fight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] One of my swordtails died tonight. He was beat up real bad this morning so I put him in the sick tank hoping with a little salt added in slowly that he would make it. Well he didnt. I have no clue what fish beat him up but it really sucks...I loved that fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 3:30:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:27:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29962	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Actually, the sites on diatoms are saying that it is algae. Microalgae to be exact. But not in the same classes of protista as other sorts of algae. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Dora, Your brown "algae" may be unsightly, and I can understand why you might want to get rid of it, but it IS NOT algae. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29963	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia in drinking water

API makes two ph tests for fresh water that I'm aware of; ph and high end ph. I have both but don't know whether they both came in the master kit; if not you have to buy the other one separately. The imporant thing is to have the test or tests that covers the ph range of your water. The neutral range is not included in teh high end range. My water is usually in teh high end range, but several times it has gotten lower than the high end range covers. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:08 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Ok ill do the baseline, my API kit only has one PH test, I guess that's what ill use. As for moving the Guppies, remember the Guppies got attacked by the female Bettas when I put them in the big tank yesterday so I would assume that would happen again, + even more so when the colors on their tails come in. I'm thinking maybe I can put the females in with the male using a tank divider? However, my male will probably not be happy. He really swims around the entire tank, + does lots of showing off for me. I call him Flipper, he's the funniest Betta I've ever had and I'd hate to reduce his tank space with a divider, but again I may have to when the colors on the tails of the Guppies come in(maybe not, we'll see). For now, I can try moving my frogs to the 55 G. I had them there before, and the snails until my toddler got to them and killed one of each. You see, the 55G is a Coffee Table tank and it is uncovered, so they are basically sitting ducks in there as the frogs are pretty easy to catch as are the snails. When my toddler got to them, I didn't have gravel or stones at the bottom, only decorative hiding places, so every tank resident was easy to see. The good news is this week I put in some River Stone from top fin(looks great, hope its good for leaching). The fish are harder to see now and I'm sure the frogs would blend in well. Not sure about my snails though. Don't think so. So that would leave: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 4 baby Guppies, 2 mystery snails, + 3 Ghost Shrimp Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:46:42 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water OK. As you see, your right out the tap pH is much higher but then goes down quite a bit once it is in your tanks. Seeing this large drop means you should not do large PWC's as you would be changing the pH of the tank too much, too fast which could be harmful to the fish. With a drop in pH of 1.6, I would stick to 10% to 15% PWC's which would only change the pH by no more than 0.2 at one time which is considered a safe amount. The other option, if you do have to do a larger 25% PWC, in order to vacuum your gravel properly, you could just refill the tank partially, then wait a couple of hours and finish refilling the tank to give the fish a chance to acclimate to the rising pH. I also see you still have ammonia readings which means your tanks are not fully cycled, which we kind of already knew. Although you are showing nitrates, which typically would indicate that a tank is cycled, if the ammonia and nitrites were both 0.0ppm, your nitrate level could be coming from your tap water. U.S. EPA guidelines allow for up to 10ppm of nitrates in our tap water. Some communities have much higher levels. I wish I could tell you more about your ADF's but I've never kept them and do not know as much about them except for what I've read on care sheets and in various forum posts, but it seems that if they are getting along with the male betta, then the 10G would be OK for the three of them and the male betta. I'm guessing you will be moving the guppies when they get a little bigger. The Mystery snails are not a huge bioload and many people consider them a neutral bioload since they also help with tank cleaning. Now if they start breeding, you'll have to move all of their babies. They do not breed as much as nuisance snails but when they do decide to breed, they can have hundreds of babies. You'll see a clutch of their eggs stuck to the glass or filter tube right above the water line. You should read up more on them so you'll be ready if this happens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Lenny, As per your request, here are my test results for today: *Tap PH: 8.8 --- 10 Gal: Temp: 78 (has med. lighting, is lightly planted) PH: 7.2 Ammo: .25 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 10 --- 55 Gal: Temp: 73 PH: 7.2 Ammo: .25 or less Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 5 I also put the 6 tetras in the 55 G so that leaves in the 10 G: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 4 baby Guppies, 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp Maybe I should move the frogs too? Sincerely, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:11:26 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Hey Lenny, WOW! That was a reply! Thanks :D. I will do the tests and report back the results for you so you can see what's up. I actually have read your tutorials, but its usually late at nite and maybe I missed a few parts of the info if I dozed off. I will review the info again. My tanks are about 3 mos. Old approx? My cycling was with fish, I guess its still cycling. I was more clueless back then, ay ay ay! Guess I still am. So I don't need to add aquarium salt at all then? I guess I will take all that stuff back and look for Prime, sounds good. As for your restocking suggestion, earlier today I did a test with the guppies, I put them in the big 55 G tank and my Female Bettas ganged up on them. As soon as I saw one get nipped, I scooped them out, and that took all of 4 seconds, so I guess they can't go. Weird how the Male doesn't bother them right? I will prob. Have to upgrade my 10 G once they start breeding I suppose, I wanted to anyway. Do you really think my Ghost shrimp won't last? None of my fish seem interested in them, although the Betta did eat 3 of the baby Guppies that were smaller. Don't the shrimp eat detritus? I know Amanos do, but do these? I will definitely move out the Neon Tetras, they're a challenge to catch though! Thanks so much for your help, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:51:10 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water I'm going to answer with "LENNY'S REPLY" following each paragraph below, since you have a lot of questions. You also NEED to go to my blog and read my long article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as I suspect some of your problems are related to that. Also go to my "A to Z of Fish Keeping..." page and read up on Cycling With Fish (link near the top) and take one or both of the FREE online fish keeping tutorials so you'll have a better basic understanding of things. Also see my article on "Establishing your tap water baseline" and give us those numbers at the three intervals. Give us your pH and water temperature ASAP. If your pH is under 7.5, then your 1.0ppm ammonia levels are probably not toxic but ultimately, they will come down to 0.0ppm once your tank is cycled. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia in drinking water Dear Lenny + Group, I recently wrote in asking for advice. Well since then, I've improved my situation a bit. LENNY'S REPLY - I'm not so sure you've improved it although it may appear to be improved. Read on. However, again I need advice so thank you all in advance if you can help me. I'm a beginner here I have to let you all know before I begin. I had been struggling all this time to get the water chemistry right in both my tanks, I have a 10 and 55 tank. I did 25% pwcs daily for about a week straight and still, things improved on the nitites and ph, however the ammonia was still at 1.0 until I took some desperate measures, Ill explain.... LENNY'S REPLY - How long have the tanks been set up? I'm guessing not long since you said you are a beginner.... we all were at one time! Did you fishless cycle or cycle with fish? Do you understand "The Nitrogen Cycle" and how it works in your tank and filter systems? Were the tanks ever fully cycled? You may be messing up by following the instructions of the PetsMart people or even the filter manufacturers which is a common problem that I see for beginners. If you've read my long article on "Filter Maintenance...", you'll know what I'm talking about here. I see further down that you give your tank stocking and your 10G is overstocked which could be a big part of your problems with that tank. I'll address stocking suggestions following that paragraph. I do now own an API master test kit and decided to test the actual tap water yesterday. I live in So. FL where out tap water comes out with a 1.0 Ammonia reading! I had no idea until one guy at a privately owned fish shop told me. OMG! I can't believe I drink the stuff all the time and my poor fish! Ugh! LENNY'S REPLY - It's GREAT that you now have your own master test kit. That will go a long way in helping you "cycle" your tanks properly and start to understand a little more about water chemistry. Most tap water in the USA is treated with Chloramine which will show a slight level of ammonia in your tests since Chloramine is made up of chlorine and ammonia. If your tanks were fully cycled, this would not be an issue as that small amount of ammonia would be taken care of by the nitrifying bacteria (aka bio-filtration) in a properly cycled tank. If your tanks were fully cycled and you did a 25% PWC, you would only be adding 0.25ppm of ammonia which is not very much considering a fully stocked, properly maintained tank handles about 5.0ppm of ammonia per day. So on to what measures I took. The guy at Petsmart recommends a product called 3in1 which dechlorifies, removes ammo + nitrites. However, I treated a gallon + tested THAT water and it still had an Ammo reading of 1.0! I then experimented + treated 1 gal. with simple tap dechlor + Ammo remover + same thing! I'm at witts end here! Luckily, I had bought some ammo chips at the store yesterday to try out and they made a difference! My Ammo went down to .25 in 1 tank and slightly higher in the other. Phew! But still, it needs to be 0. I also bought some real plants and bulbs to help out the situation. LENNY'S REPLY - Why are you still listening to the PetsMart people? Aren't they the main reason you are in the position you are in? Maybe not, but 90% of the issues I see in forums are caused by people listening to pet store employees who do not have a clue on how to keep fish healthy and alive for the long term. There is also a chance that the products they sold you are giving you false readings on your tests. 99% of the JUNK products they sell on the shelves at pet stores simply are NOT needed 99% of the time. While the Zeolite mineral that is used for the ammo chips are OK for emergency situations (1.0ppm of ammonia is NOT an emergency), they will only make your problems worse in the long run. Presuming your tanks are not fully cycled or something happened to put the tanks into mini-cycles, the Zeolite will only be starving your nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia they need to survive and grow a proper sized colony to handle the bioload of your tank(s). Unfortunately, when cycling with fish, or if something happened to your bio-filtration (nitrifying bacteria), you have to allow the ammonia levels to remain between 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm in order to slowly build up the N-bacteria colonies to a size where they can once again handle 5.0ppm per day. Bring back all of the chemicals and filter additives they sold you and get a bottle of Prime which is a dechlor product that also helps make ammonia non-toxic. It will still be an ammonia by-product that the nitrifying bacteria can eat and grow their colonies. All the ammo-chips are doing is sucking up the ammonia which is starving your N-bacteria colonies so you'll never get your tank cycled properly. Also, for some people using ammo-chips or Zeolite based products, if you add salt to the tank, the sale will cause the Zeolite to release ALL of the ammonia which really makes a mess of things quickly (salt is not required with your fish except maybe the guppies but they are not your primary fish so they'll have to get along without the salt). Re-test your tanks daily and post your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and temperature so I can get a firm idea of what is happening in your tanks. What is your pH out the tap? In this case, I need your expert advice on my situation. Can I filter it out with Brita water filters? Also what are the best products for me to use for our Ammo tap water here in So FLA. Yuck! LENNY'S REPLY - You do not need to filter that little bit of ammonia out. All you need to do is get your tanks properly cycled and properly stocked, then you will no longer have ammonia issues. Since you seem to be stuck with "Cycling With Fish", use the Prime as your dechlor product to make the ammonia non-toxic. Once you are fully cycled and you understand what NOT to do that might mess up your N-bacteria, then you can use a simple dechlor product like API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They are the two dechlors that I use for my tanks... preferably the API brand but I can't always find it in stock in the 16 oz. size at my local PetsMart, so I have to get the 8 oz of TopFin's brand as my second most cost effective choice. Oh yeah, my stocking: *10 Gal - 1 male Betta, 6 Neon tetras(will move them out to big tank as soon as I can catch 'em!), 4 baby Guppies (they were a free bee and no my Betta doesn't chase them yet), 2 mystery snails, 3 African Dwarf Frogs + 3 Ghost Shrimp LENNY'S REPLY - I believe ADF's need at least 2.5G each so just them three kind of fills out the 10G. Definitely remove the tetras and the guppies from the 10G to reduce the bioload on the 10G, especially before the guppies start breeding. You may be able to make it with just the ADF's, the Betta and the Mystery Snails. The ghost shrimps are just un-caught food in the tank. *55 Gal- 5 Female Bettas, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters, 4 ghost shrimp. LENNY'S REPLY - The ghost shrimp will likely be future meals so they don't really count. This tank could handle the six neon's and the guppies which would help out your 10G tremendously. I look fwd to your replies. Sincere thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/12/2008 2:51:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:25:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:46:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29964	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: One of my swordtails died tonight.

Any chance he got caught on something? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "¤H3ATH3R¤" <lilredhd1@...> To: "AquaticLife" <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:32 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] One of my swordtails died tonight. He was beat up real bad this morning so I put him in the sick tank hoping with a little salt added in slowly that he would make it. Well he didnt. I have no clue what fish beat him up but it really sucks...I loved that fish. I know hes just a fish but he was one of my first fish. Do platys and swordtails have the abilty to beat each other up? He was bruised on his face and his top fin was shredded? Seems crazy to me. ~¤Heather¤~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Which sites? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Actually, the sites on diatoms are saying that it is algae. Microalgae to be exact. But not in the same classes of protista as other sorts of algae. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Dora, Your brown "algae" may be unsightly, and I can understand why you might want to get rid of it, but it IS NOT algae. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 1:19:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 1:20:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29966	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers

We have 2 fig 8's in a 10 gal brackish tank at 1.5 salinity. They were babies in fresh water when we got them so they had to be adapted but they're thriving and doing well. Hoping to move them to a 30 gallong hex tank that I got out of the local swap sheet soon. Freecycle.org and Craigslist is another great place to find good deals.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29967	From: Tony Lucas	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

Hi living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. Tony Lucas <http://ufoinvestigator.tripod.com/> Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> .com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> org>: -------------- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer > waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday > can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 > Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:42:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 12:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29968	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Off topic. links for weather definitions.

_http://www.weather.com/_ (http://www.weather.com/) _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone) _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane) _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon) _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_wave_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_wave) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29969	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers

Exactly how are you arriving at the 1.5 figure for salinity? After all most marine tanks are kept at 1.023-1.025 and brackish people usually aim for around 1.010-1.015, but don't worry too much about it (that's what brackish water normally is, changeable). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K'lyn Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers We have 2 fig 8's in a 10 gal brackish tank at 1.5 salinity. They were babies in fresh water when we got them so they had to be adapted but they're thriving and doing well. Hoping to move them to a 30 gallong hex tank that I got out of the local swap sheet soon. Freecycle.org and Craigslist is another great place to find good deals.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Lucas Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Hi living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. Tony Lucas <http://ufoinvestigator.tripod.com/ <http://ufoinvestigator.tripod.com/ <http://ufoinvestigator.tripod.com/> > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464> > > .com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > ll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> org>: -------------- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer > waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday > can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 > Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:42:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 12:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:02:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:29:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29971	From: Wendy Myers	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

For those of you that did not have direct impact from this storm, I live in Cypress, TX and I was literally TERRIFIED as this storm blew through!  I have 7 freshwater aquariums, 1 that's 55 gallons that I just set up about a week ago, and we lost power at 1:30 a.m. early Saturday morning and just regained power at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday afternoon!  I was hearing on the radio (and that's all the communication that I had with the world outside) that it could  be as long as 2 to 4 weeks before the power came back on!  I was really afraid that I would lose all my fish due to this uncontrollable catastophy - I'm a single mom and could not afford to have a generator to keep my stuff going!  All in all I guess I'm lucky because I only lost 2 Angelfish, but I had these fish for a very long time and the grew from about nickel size to majorly over half dollar size and it really pained me to lose them!  Also, I'm glad I was on top of the situation because as soon as I noticed they died I removed them from the tank (even with this the water had begun to turn rancid from the deaths due to no circulation),    I never thought ahead of just what could happen, and I was one of the lucky ones that not only got through the storm with my house in tact and not have my power for long enough to kill my hobby totally, but are there any other members of this site that have a story to tell??  On Sun, 9/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:29 PM OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tony Lucas Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Hi living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. Tony Lucas <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/> > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464> > > .com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/> > > ll.blogspot. com/ ------------ -- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad% 40witchnet. org> org>: ------------ -- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer > waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday > can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 > Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:42:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com <http://www.avg. com> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 12:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:02:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:29:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29972	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

Wendy I'm glad you made it through ok. Here in College station we only had bad winds for about an hour. I lost half my porch roof and the power blinked 4-5 times during the day but that was it. I think I will invest in a battery powered filter to keep on hand. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29973	From: Margie	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

We are like in another world from you, across town in Pasadena, Stinkadena as some call it. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from Wendy Myers <wendyallynmyers@...>: -------------- For those of you that did not have direct impact from this storm, I live in Cypress, TX and I was literally TERRIFIED as this storm blew through! I have 7 freshwater aquariums, 1 that's 55 gallons that I just set up about a week ago, and we lost power at 1:30 a.m. early Saturday morning and just regained power at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday afternoon! I was hearing on the radio (and that's all the communication that I had with the world outside) that it could be as long as 2 to 4 weeks before the power came back on! I was really afraid that I would lose all my fish due to this uncontrollable catastophy - I'm a single mom and could not afford to have a generator to keep my stuff going! All in all I guess I'm lucky because I only lost 2 Angelfish, but I had these fish for a very long time and the grew from about nickel size to majorly over half dollar size and it really pained me to lose them! Also, I'm glad I was on top of the situation > because as > soon as I noticed they died I removed them from the tank (even with this the > water had begun to turn rancid from the deaths due to no circulation), > > I never thought ahead of just what could happen, and I was one of the lucky ones > that not only got through the storm with my house in tact and not have my power > for long enough to kill my hobby totally, but are there any other members of > this site that have a story to tell?? > > > > On Sun, 9/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:29 PM > > > > > > > OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then > becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon > which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the > Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that > begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Tony Lucas > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Hi > living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to > Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant > remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. > I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. > And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. > > Tony Lucas > > > > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com ] > On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water > surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the > Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari > > > > .com/o1518107464 > /shelf > http://loomingragdo > > > > ll.blogspot. com/ > > ------------ -- Original message from "Eric Roberts" > org>: ------------ -- > > > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer > > waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern > > > most areas of AU. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > > On > > Behalf Of cin > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday > > can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the > top > > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We > worry > > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > > 2007 > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > > message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 > > Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:42:27 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 > 12:50 PM > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > avast! Antivirus : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 > Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:02:45 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 > Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:29:08 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29974	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

Wendy, I have my story about how me and all my fish survived Hurricane Katrina and 14 days of no power, no generator, no water. It's all on my blog. You may want to read it which will give you lots of ideas of how to keep things going even without power. It can be done without a generator although it's a lot of work. I now have a generator and things were a heck of a lot easier when Gustav blew through but it was nothing like Katrina. Ike seems to be more like Katrina from what I've seen on the news. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendy Myers Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! For those of you that did not have direct impact from this storm, I live in Cypress, TX and I was literally TERRIFIED as this storm blew through! I have 7 freshwater aquariums, 1 that's 55 gallons that I just set up about a week ago, and we lost power at 1:30 a.m. early Saturday morning and just regained power at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday afternoon! I was hearing on the radio (and that's all the communication that I had with the world outside) that it could be as long as 2 to 4 weeks before the power came back on! I was really afraid that I would lose all my fish due to this uncontrollable catastophy - I'm a single mom and could not afford to have a generator to keep my stuff going! All in all I guess I'm lucky because I only lost 2 Angelfish, but I had these fish for a very long time and the grew from about nickel size to majorly over half dollar size and it really pained me to lose them! Also, I'm glad I was on top of the situation because as soon as I noticed they died I removed them from the tank (even with this the water had begun to turn rancid from the deaths due to no circulation), I never thought ahead of just what could happen, and I was one of the lucky ones that not only got through the storm with my house in tact and not have my power for long enough to kill my hobby totally, but are there any other members of this site that have a story to tell?? On Sun, 9/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:29 PM OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tony Lucas Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Hi living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. Tony Lucas <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/> > > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464> > > > .com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/> > > > ll.blogspot. com/ ------------ -- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad% 40witchnet. org> org>: ------------ -- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. > com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need > warmer waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in > the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since > midday can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones > mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 > 2:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com <http://www.avg. com> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 12:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:02:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:29:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 5:13:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 5:44:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29975	From: Margie	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

Close, but no cigar...Actually you are right on, but still no cigar. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...>: -------------- > OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then > becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon > which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the > Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that > begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Tony Lucas > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Hi > living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to > Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant > remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. > I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. > And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. > > > Tony Lucas > > > > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] > On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water > surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the > Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari > > > > .com/o1518107464 > /shelf > http://loomingragdo > > > > ll.blogspot.com/ > > -------------- Original message from "Eric Roberts" > org>: -------------- > > > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer > > waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern > > > most areas of AU. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of cin > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday > > can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the > top > > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We > worry > > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > > 2007 > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > > message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 > > Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:42:27 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 > 12:50 PM > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 > Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:02:45 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 > Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:29:08 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29976	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers

Right \\Steve//, I wouldn't worry much about the difference between 1.010 and 1.015 for brackish water neither, as long as it stays somewhat within that range -- it can constantly change with the tides in a natural setting (depending on the particular location's proximity to fresh water). But I would still be most concerned about that 1.5 figure. That's umteen times more saline than sea water. Probably (maybe?) just a typo . . . but . . . Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29977	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: Hurricane Ike

Potato -- Pototo ---- Cyclone -- Typhoon! It all comes out in the WASH. <g> </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29978	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

Wendy, So glad to hear you made it through the storm comparativily unscathed. Sorry to learn of your angelfish loses but it could have been a lot worse. 2 to 4 weeks without power is totally unimaginable if it ever came to that. Glad to see you're back with us. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29979	From: Wendy Myers	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

Thanks for the link/tips!  I will check this out immediately because we are still in hurricane season here and I would like to be more prepared for the sake of my fish!   Wendy A. Myers --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 5:44 PM Wendy, I have my story about how me and all my fish survived Hurricane Katrina and 14 days of no power, no generator, no water. It's all on my blog. You may want to read it which will give you lots of ideas of how to keep things going even without power. It can be done without a generator although it's a lot of work. I now have a generator and things were a heck of a lot easier when Gustav blew through but it was nothing like Katrina. Ike seems to be more like Katrina from what I've seen on the news. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Wendy Myers Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! For those of you that did not have direct impact from this storm, I live in Cypress, TX and I was literally TERRIFIED as this storm blew through! I have 7 freshwater aquariums, 1 that's 55 gallons that I just set up about a week ago, and we lost power at 1:30 a.m. early Saturday morning and just regained power at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday afternoon! I was hearing on the radio (and that's all the communication that I had with the world outside) that it could be as long as 2 to 4 weeks before the power came back on! I was really afraid that I would lose all my fish due to this uncontrollable catastophy - I'm a single mom and could not afford to have a generator to keep my stuff going! All in all I guess I'm lucky because I only lost 2 Angelfish, but I had these fish for a very long time and the grew from about nickel size to majorly over half dollar size and it really pained me to lose them! Also, I'm glad I was on top of the situation because as soon as I noticed they died I removed them from the tank (even with this the water had begun to turn rancid from the deaths due to no circulation) , I never thought ahead of just what could happen, and I was one of the lucky ones that not only got through the storm with my house in tact and not have my power for long enough to kill my hobby totally, but are there any other members of this site that have a story to tell?? On Sun, 9/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:29 PM OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tony Lucas Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Hi living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. Tony Lucas <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/> > > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464> > > > .com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/> > > > ll.blogspot. com/ ------------ -- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad% 40witchnet. org> org>: ------------ -- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. > com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need > warmer waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in > the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since > midday can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones > mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 > 2:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com <http://www.avg. com> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 12:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:02:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:29:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 5:13:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 5:44:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29980	From: Wendy Myers	Date: 9/14/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

Glad to hear you made it through the storm alright!  It would really be worth it for me to look into this battery powered filter thing since we're still in hurricane season!  This would really give me piece of mind for my fishes sake - given the fact that the next time a hurricane blows through the tanks themselves survive strong winds, a spawned off tornado, broken glass, etc.  Thanks for the idea!!!!   Wendy A. Myers --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Suzy Snowflake <grammypat@...> wrote: From: Suzy Snowflake <grammypat@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 5:11 PM Wendy I'm glad you made it through ok. Here in College station we only had bad winds for about an hour. I lost half my porch roof and the power blinked 4-5 times during the day but that was it. I think I will invest in a battery powered filter to keep on hand. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29981	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

Tania: The acid test means get some acid toilet bowl cleaner, the kind with hydrochloric acid, and drip some on the marble to see if it fizzes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Hello, Yes I do have some PC internet access, however, its rare as I am occupied by my toddler most of the time, he doesn't give me a chance to go online much, except from my BB. As for the acid test, ill read up on it, thx Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:20:57 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Your not ignorant... just pre-informed! ;-) None of us knew these things before getting into the hobby or studying these things. You can find out a lot more about fish keeping in general by taking one or both of the fish keeping tutorials I have referenced on my blog on the A to Z of Fish Keeping page... the links are right near the top of that page. GH is General Hardness also referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits, mainly the dip strips. KH is Carbonate Hardness The API Master Test Kit does not include these but API does sell separate kits for these tests. Most of the time, these figures aren't needed but are useful when trying to isolate issues or problems. What is your tap water pH baseline? The API kit should have that test. The baseline is established by running your tap for a minute or two, then fill a gallon bucket. Test the pH. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait 24 more hours and test it again. This will tell you/us more about the buffering capacity of your tap water. Many public utilities add various buffers, mainly calcium carbonate, to the water supply to raise the pH so that it is above 7.0 while traveling through the public water supply pipes so the water is not acidic (below 7.0 pH). Acidic water, over the course of dozens of years will cause corrosion to certain pipe materials so they raise the pH to prevent this. Depending on the amount of buffers they add and how long the buffering capacity lasts will determine what your pH is out of the pipes and once it is exposed to air and light. The buffering capacities will go down even further in your tank once the overall ecology of the tank starts utilizing these minerals. This is why it's so important to do weekly PWC's in a fully stocked tank... to replace these necessary trace elements and minerals that are in water. Most chemicals deteriorate in effectiveness when exposed to air and light which is why so many medicines are packaged in brown/opaque bottles and sealed tight. What all this means is that if your water is on the hard side (higher GH) and has a higher pH (7.5+), then the marble chips would be less likely to leach anything but if your water is on the soft side and/or lower pH, then the marble chips would be more likely to leach. In reading the two websites I referred you to earlier, TheSkepticalAquarist implied Marble Chips, if truly marble chips and not a lesser quality product, was OK to use, while TheKrib's article implied that they should not be used for most fish unless the fish explicitly prefer very hard water which is why I also asked what kind of fish you were planning? I cannot find any kind of product information on the Vigoro Marble Chips... not even on Vigoro's website http://www.vigoro.com/ProductCategories/ I was hoping to find an MSDS sheet to see if more info could be gleaned about how stable these marble chips were. The other choice is to test them using the acid tests mentioned on the two websites that I gave you earlier. I see most of your replies are from your blackberry. Do you have normal internet access also? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel The brand is Vigoro Decorative Marble chips. I'm not sure what type other than what it says on the bag. " What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH?" - Sorry if I sound ignorant, but my API test does not have tests for GH and KH, what is that? Where can I find the answer to that question? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:02:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel It depends on what the "marble chips" actually are. See if you can find out what kind of rock chips they really are. Do you have a brand/product name on the bag? What kind of fish do you plan on keeping? What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH? Here are some articles I have in my favorites folder about rocks as substrates/decorations. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> (Read down to where he talks about limestone and then marble chips) http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:27:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:02:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 4:40:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:20:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29982	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers

Sorry guys. It was a typo. Our tank is at 1.015 just to clarify. Being new at the brackish thing I didn't realize how quickly salt water evaporates in a small tank and have to watch it closely or it goes at about a gallon a week and I also didn't realize the salinity goes with it. It's interesting. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Exactly how are you arriving at the 1.5 figure for salinity? After all > most marine tanks are kept at 1.023-1.025 and brackish people usually > aim for around 1.010-1.015, but don't worry too much about it (that's > what brackish water normally is, changeable). > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of K'lyn > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers > > We have 2 fig 8's in a 10 gal brackish tank at 1.5 salinity. They were > babies in fresh water when we got them so they had to be adapted but > they're thriving and doing well. Hoping to move them to a 30 gallong > hex tank that I got out of the local swap sheet soon. Freecycle.org > and Craigslist is another great place to find good deals. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers

Actually, the salt does not evaporate with the water. You may be losing some salt to the ecology of the tank... sorry but I've never kept SW tanks so I'm not sure if the fish/critters/microscopic things utilize some of the salts (I imagine they do) but I know that salt does not leave the tank with evaporation... that's pure distilled water evaporating. In fact, that's how they make distilled water, by collecting water that has evaporated from the original water source. If you are topping off or doing a PWC, you should check your salinity levels and adjust the incoming water accordingly. I would think that, for the most part, replacing the evaporated water with distilled or RO water would be all that is required to keep the salinity near the same level... with maybe adding a pinch of salt if needed to replace any salt utilized by the ecology of the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K'lyn Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 1:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers Sorry guys. It was a typo. Our tank is at 1.015 just to clarify. Being new at the brackish thing I didn't realize how quickly salt water evaporates in a small tank and have to watch it closely or it goes at about a gallon a week and I also didn't realize the salinity goes with it. It's interesting. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Exactly how are you arriving at the 1.5 figure for salinity? After all > most marine tanks are kept at 1.023-1.025 and brackish people usually > aim for around 1.010-1.015, but don't worry too much about it (that's > what brackish water normally is, changeable). > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of K'lyn > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers > > We have 2 fig 8's in a 10 gal brackish tank at 1.5 salinity. They were > babies in fresh water when we got them so they had to be adapted but > they're thriving and doing well. Hoping to move them to a 30 gallong > hex tank that I got out of the local swap sheet soon. Freecycle.org > and Craigslist is another great place to find good deals. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 2:47:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 3:10:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29984	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

Wow, you are serious!! I’ve always heard vinegar is good for the acid test. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Tania: The acid test means get some acid toilet bowl cleaner, the kind with hydrochloric acid, and drip some on the marble to see if it fizzes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Hello, Yes I do have some PC internet access, however, its rare as I am occupied by my toddler most of the time, he doesn't give me a chance to go online much, except from my BB. As for the acid test, ill read up on it, thx Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:20:57 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Your not ignorant... just pre-informed! ;-) None of us knew these things before getting into the hobby or studying these things. You can find out a lot more about fish keeping in general by taking one or both of the fish keeping tutorials I have referenced on my blog on the A to Z of Fish Keeping page... the links are right near the top of that page. GH is General Hardness also referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits, mainly the dip strips. KH is Carbonate Hardness The API Master Test Kit does not include these but API does sell separate kits for these tests. Most of the time, these figures aren't needed but are useful when trying to isolate issues or problems. What is your tap water pH baseline? The API kit should have that test. The baseline is established by running your tap for a minute or two, then fill a gallon bucket. Test the pH. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait 24 more hours and test it again. This will tell you/us more about the buffering capacity of your tap water. Many public utilities add various buffers, mainly calcium carbonate, to the water supply to raise the pH so that it is above 7.0 while traveling through the public water supply pipes so the water is not acidic (below 7.0 pH). Acidic water, over the course of dozens of years will cause corrosion to certain pipe materials so they raise the pH to prevent this. Depending on the amount of buffers they add and how long the buffering capacity lasts will determine what your pH is out of the pipes and once it is exposed to air and light. The buffering capacities will go down even further in your tank once the overall ecology of the tank starts utilizing these minerals. This is why it's so important to do weekly PWC's in a fully stocked tank... to replace these necessary trace elements and minerals that are in water. Most chemicals deteriorate in effectiveness when exposed to air and light which is why so many medicines are packaged in brown/opaque bottles and sealed tight. What all this means is that if your water is on the hard side (higher GH) and has a higher pH (7.5+), then the marble chips would be less likely to leach anything but if your water is on the soft side and/or lower pH, then the marble chips would be more likely to leach. In reading the two websites I referred you to earlier, TheSkepticalAquarist implied Marble Chips, if truly marble chips and not a lesser quality product, was OK to use, while TheKrib's article implied that they should not be used for most fish unless the fish explicitly prefer very hard water which is why I also asked what kind of fish you were planning? I cannot find any kind of product information on the Vigoro Marble Chips... not even on Vigoro's website http://www.vigoro. <http://www.vigoro.com/ProductCategories/> com/ProductCategories/ I was hoping to find an MSDS sheet to see if more info could be gleaned about how stable these marble chips were. The other choice is to test them using the acid tests mentioned on the two websites that I gave you earlier. I see most of your replies are from your blackberry. Do you have normal internet access also? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel The brand is Vigoro Decorative Marble chips. I'm not sure what type other than what it says on the bag. " What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH?" - Sorry if I sound ignorant, but my API test does not have tests for GH and KH, what is that? Where can I find the answer to that question? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:02:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel It depends on what the "marble chips" actually are. See if you can find out what kind of rock chips they really are. Do you have a brand/product name on the bag? What kind of fish do you plan on keeping? What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH? Here are some articles I have in my favorites folder about rocks as substrates/decorations. http://www.skeptica <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> laquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skeptica <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> laquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> (Read down to where he talks about limestone and then marble chips) http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html> com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html> com/TankHardware/rocks.html> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:27:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:02:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 4:40:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:20:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29985	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

Regular white vinegar isn't really strong enough but it does work good on cleaning the hard water buildup near the top of the tank, filter parts, etc. There is a pickling vinegar that is more acidic that supposedly works better although I've never used it. Muriatic acid, for people with pools, works. I also read that the API Nitrate Test Bottle #1 has the warning, "Contains Hydrochloric Acid", and will work but I haven't tried that one either. Those two links I provided earlier in this thread (near the bottom of this reply) goes into more details on testing rocks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Wow, you are serious!! I've always heard vinegar is good for the acid test. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Tania: The acid test means get some acid toilet bowl cleaner, the kind with hydrochloric acid, and drip some on the marble to see if it fizzes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackber> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Hello, Yes I do have some PC internet access, however, its rare as I am occupied by my toddler most of the time, he doesn't give me a chance to go online much, except from my BB. As for the acid test, ill read up on it, thx Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:20:57 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Your not ignorant... just pre-informed! ;-) None of us knew these things before getting into the hobby or studying these things. You can find out a lot more about fish keeping in general by taking one or both of the fish keeping tutorials I have referenced on my blog on the A to Z of Fish Keeping page... the links are right near the top of that page. GH is General Hardness also referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits, mainly the dip strips. KH is Carbonate Hardness The API Master Test Kit does not include these but API does sell separate kits for these tests. Most of the time, these figures aren't needed but are useful when trying to isolate issues or problems. What is your tap water pH baseline? The API kit should have that test. The baseline is established by running your tap for a minute or two, then fill a gallon bucket. Test the pH. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait 24 more hours and test it again. This will tell you/us more about the buffering capacity of your tap water. Many public utilities add various buffers, mainly calcium carbonate, to the water supply to raise the pH so that it is above 7.0 while traveling through the public water supply pipes so the water is not acidic (below 7.0 pH). Acidic water, over the course of dozens of years will cause corrosion to certain pipe materials so they raise the pH to prevent this. Depending on the amount of buffers they add and how long the buffering capacity lasts will determine what your pH is out of the pipes and once it is exposed to air and light. The buffering capacities will go down even further in your tank once the overall ecology of the tank starts utilizing these minerals. This is why it's so important to do weekly PWC's in a fully stocked tank... to replace these necessary trace elements and minerals that are in water. Most chemicals deteriorate in effectiveness when exposed to air and light which is why so many medicines are packaged in brown/opaque bottles and sealed tight. What all this means is that if your water is on the hard side (higher GH) and has a higher pH (7.5+), then the marble chips would be less likely to leach anything but if your water is on the soft side and/or lower pH, then the marble chips would be more likely to leach. In reading the two websites I referred you to earlier, TheSkepticalAquarist implied Marble Chips, if truly marble chips and not a lesser quality product, was OK to use, while TheKrib's article implied that they should not be used for most fish unless the fish explicitly prefer very hard water which is why I also asked what kind of fish you were planning? I cannot find any kind of product information on the Vigoro Marble Chips... not even on Vigoro's website http://www.vigoro. <http://www.vigoro.com/ProductCategories/ <http://www.vigoro.com/ProductCategories/ <http://www.vigoro.com/ProductCategories/> > > com/ProductCategories/ I was hoping to find an MSDS sheet to see if more info could be gleaned about how stable these marble chips were. The other choice is to test them using the acid tests mentioned on the two websites that I gave you earlier. I see most of your replies are from your blackberry. Do you have normal internet access also? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackber> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel The brand is Vigoro Decorative Marble chips. I'm not sure what type other than what it says on the bag. " What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH?" - Sorry if I sound ignorant, but my API test does not have tests for GH and KH, what is that? Where can I find the answer to that question? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:02:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel It depends on what the "marble chips" actually are. See if you can find out what kind of rock chips they really are. Do you have a brand/product name on the bag? What kind of fish do you plan on keeping? What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH? Here are some articles I have in my favorites folder about rocks as substrates/decorations. http://www.skeptica <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> > > laquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skeptica <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> > > laquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> (Read down to where he talks about limestone and then marble chips) http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html> > > com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html> > > com/TankHardware/rocks.html> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackber> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 6:36:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29986	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

I tried it, and it fizzes pretty weakly on some plain old local limestone. If it doesn't fizz with toilet bowl cleaner you know it's stable. I kept a small bottle in my rock collecting kit. Around here most rock is limestone. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Wow, you are serious!! I've always heard vinegar is good for the acid test. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Tania: The acid test means get some acid toilet bowl cleaner, the kind with hydrochloric acid, and drip some on the marble to see if it fizzes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Hello, Yes I do have some PC internet access, however, its rare as I am occupied by my toddler most of the time, he doesn't give me a chance to go online much, except from my BB. As for the acid test, ill read up on it, thx Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:20:57 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Your not ignorant... just pre-informed! ;-) None of us knew these things before getting into the hobby or studying these things. You can find out a lot more about fish keeping in general by taking one or both of the fish keeping tutorials I have referenced on my blog on the A to Z of Fish Keeping page... the links are right near the top of that page. GH is General Hardness also referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits, mainly the dip strips. KH is Carbonate Hardness The API Master Test Kit does not include these but API does sell separate kits for these tests. Most of the time, these figures aren't needed but are useful when trying to isolate issues or problems. What is your tap water pH baseline? The API kit should have that test. The baseline is established by running your tap for a minute or two, then fill a gallon bucket. Test the pH. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait 24 more hours and test it again. This will tell you/us more about the buffering capacity of your tap water. Many public utilities add various buffers, mainly calcium carbonate, to the water supply to raise the pH so that it is above 7.0 while traveling through the public water supply pipes so the water is not acidic (below 7.0 pH). Acidic water, over the course of dozens of years will cause corrosion to certain pipe materials so they raise the pH to prevent this. Depending on the amount of buffers they add and how long the buffering capacity lasts will determine what your pH is out of the pipes and once it is exposed to air and light. The buffering capacities will go down even further in your tank once the overall ecology of the tank starts utilizing these minerals. This is why it's so important to do weekly PWC's in a fully stocked tank... to replace these necessary trace elements and minerals that are in water. Most chemicals deteriorate in effectiveness when exposed to air and light which is why so many medicines are packaged in brown/opaque bottles and sealed tight. What all this means is that if your water is on the hard side (higher GH) and has a higher pH (7.5+), then the marble chips would be less likely to leach anything but if your water is on the soft side and/or lower pH, then the marble chips would be more likely to leach. In reading the two websites I referred you to earlier, TheSkepticalAquarist implied Marble Chips, if truly marble chips and not a lesser quality product, was OK to use, while TheKrib's article implied that they should not be used for most fish unless the fish explicitly prefer very hard water which is why I also asked what kind of fish you were planning? I cannot find any kind of product information on the Vigoro Marble Chips... not even on Vigoro's website http://www.vigoro. <http://www.vigoro.com/ProductCategories/> com/ProductCategories/ I was hoping to find an MSDS sheet to see if more info could be gleaned about how stable these marble chips were. The other choice is to test them using the acid tests mentioned on the two websites that I gave you earlier. I see most of your replies are from your blackberry. Do you have normal internet access also? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel The brand is Vigoro Decorative Marble chips. I'm not sure what type other than what it says on the bag. " What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH?" - Sorry if I sound ignorant, but my API test does not have tests for GH and KH, what is that? Where can I find the answer to that question? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:02:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel It depends on what the "marble chips" actually are. See if you can find out what kind of rock chips they really are. Do you have a brand/product name on the bag? What kind of fish do you plan on keeping? What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH? Here are some articles I have in my favorites folder about rocks as substrates/decorations. http://www.skeptica <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> laquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skeptica <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> laquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> (Read down to where he talks about limestone and then marble chips) http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html> com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html> com/TankHardware/rocks.html> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 1:27:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:02:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 4:40:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080913-0, 09/13/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 6:20:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29987	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: ? on Marble chips as gravel

I've been told repeatedly over the years taht muriatic acid is variously toilet bowl cleaner, and 10% hydrochloric acid, whcih is exactly what toilet bowl cleaner is. Look out however, Lately they've been making some toilet bowl cleaners with bleach instead, and a few have other cleaners completely. Mix some of those chemicals and you may not survive. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Regular white vinegar isn't really strong enough but it does work good on cleaning the hard water buildup near the top of the tank, filter parts, etc. There is a pickling vinegar that is more acidic that supposedly works better although I've never used it. Muriatic acid, for people with pools, works. I also read that the API Nitrate Test Bottle #1 has the warning, "Contains Hydrochloric Acid", and will work but I haven't tried that one either. Those two links I provided earlier in this thread (near the bottom of this reply) goes into more details on testing rocks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Wow, you are serious!! I've always heard vinegar is good for the acid test. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Tania: The acid test means get some acid toilet bowl cleaner, the kind with hydrochloric acid, and drip some on the marble to see if it fizzes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackber> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Hello, Yes I do have some PC internet access, however, its rare as I am occupied by my toddler most of the time, he doesn't give me a chance to go online much, except from my BB. As for the acid test, ill read up on it, thx Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:20:57 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Your not ignorant... just pre-informed! ;-) None of us knew these things before getting into the hobby or studying these things. You can find out a lot more about fish keeping in general by taking one or both of the fish keeping tutorials I have referenced on my blog on the A to Z of Fish Keeping page... the links are right near the top of that page. GH is General Hardness also referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits, mainly the dip strips. KH is Carbonate Hardness The API Master Test Kit does not include these but API does sell separate kits for these tests. Most of the time, these figures aren't needed but are useful when trying to isolate issues or problems. What is your tap water pH baseline? The API kit should have that test. The baseline is established by running your tap for a minute or two, then fill a gallon bucket. Test the pH. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait 24 more hours and test it again. This will tell you/us more about the buffering capacity of your tap water. Many public utilities add various buffers, mainly calcium carbonate, to the water supply to raise the pH so that it is above 7.0 while traveling through the public water supply pipes so the water is not acidic (below 7.0 pH). Acidic water, over the course of dozens of years will cause corrosion to certain pipe materials so they raise the pH to prevent this. Depending on the amount of buffers they add and how long the buffering capacity lasts will determine what your pH is out of the pipes and once it is exposed to air and light. The buffering capacities will go down even further in your tank once the overall ecology of the tank starts utilizing these minerals. This is why it's so important to do weekly PWC's in a fully stocked tank... to replace these necessary trace elements and minerals that are in water. Most chemicals deteriorate in effectiveness when exposed to air and light which is why so many medicines are packaged in brown/opaque bottles and sealed tight. What all this means is that if your water is on the hard side (higher GH) and has a higher pH (7.5+), then the marble chips would be less likely to leach anything but if your water is on the soft side and/or lower pH, then the marble chips would be more likely to leach. In reading the two websites I referred you to earlier, TheSkepticalAquarist implied Marble Chips, if truly marble chips and not a lesser quality product, was OK to use, while TheKrib's article implied that they should not be used for most fish unless the fish explicitly prefer very hard water which is why I also asked what kind of fish you were planning? I cannot find any kind of product information on the Vigoro Marble Chips... not even on Vigoro's website http://www.vigoro. <http://www.vigoro.com/ProductCategories/ <http://www.vigoro.com/ProductCategories/ <http://www.vigoro.com/ProductCategories/> > > com/ProductCategories/ I was hoping to find an MSDS sheet to see if more info could be gleaned about how stable these marble chips were. The other choice is to test them using the acid tests mentioned on the two websites that I gave you earlier. I see most of your replies are from your blackberry. Do you have normal internet access also? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackber> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel The brand is Vigoro Decorative Marble chips. I'm not sure what type other than what it says on the bag. " What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH?" - Sorry if I sound ignorant, but my API test does not have tests for GH and KH, what is that? Where can I find the answer to that question? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:02:56 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel It depends on what the "marble chips" actually are. See if you can find out what kind of rock chips they really are. Do you have a brand/product name on the bag? What kind of fish do you plan on keeping? What is your tap/source water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH? Here are some articles I have in my favorites folder about rocks as substrates/decorations. http://www.skeptica <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> > > laquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skeptica <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> > > laquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> (Read down to where he talks about limestone and then marble chips) http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html> > > com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html <http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html> > > com/TankHardware/rocks.html> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackber> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] ? on Marble chips as gravel Question on Marble chips as gravel: Can I use it? Thank you, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 6:36:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29988	From: GEF/UNDP/UNOPS PEMSEA	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Happy International Coastal Clean Up Day!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29989	From: Peaches	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

I lost power from Saturday until around nine p.m. Monday. I was worried about my fish too. I kept my Python handy and kept siphoning water and refilling with aeriated water every hour. I didn't loose anybody. I sure am tired though. I bet I sleep tonight. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Wendy Myers To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! For those of you that did not have direct impact from this storm, I live in Cypress, TX and I was literally TERRIFIED as this storm blew through! I have 7 freshwater aquariums, 1 that's 55 gallons that I just set up about a week ago, and we lost power at 1:30 a.m. early Saturday morning and just regained power at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday afternoon! I was hearing on the radio (and that's all the communication that I had with the world outside) that it could be as long as 2 to 4 weeks before the power came back on! I was really afraid that I would lose all my fish due to this uncontrollable catastophy - I'm a single mom and could not afford to have a generator to keep my stuff going! All in all I guess I'm lucky because I only lost 2 Angelfish, but I had these fish for a very long time and the grew from about nickel size to majorly over half dollar size and it really pained me to lose them! Also, I'm glad I was on top of the situation because as soon as I noticed they died I removed them from the tank (even with this the water had begun to turn rancid from the deaths due to no circulation), I never thought ahead of just what could happen, and I was one of the lucky ones that not only got through the storm with my house in tact and not have my power for long enough to kill my hobby totally, but are there any other members of this site that have a story to tell?? On Sun, 9/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:29 PM OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tony Lucas Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Hi living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. Tony Lucas <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/> > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464> > > .com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/> > > ll.blogspot. com/ ------------ -- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad% 40witchnet. org> org>: ------------ -- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need warmer > waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since midday > can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 > Tested on: 9/13/2008 2:42:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com <http://www.avg. com> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 12:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:02:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:29:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3439 (20080912) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29990	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: Happy International Coastal Clean Up Day!

International Coastal Cleanup Day is September 20th this year. http://www.oceanconservancy.org/site/PageServer?pagename=press_icc We don't have to worry about it this year down here. Gustav and Ike have cleaned our coasts plenty good already... and all that lumber from all the destroyed buildings and boats really won't fit in a garbage bag very well. ;-) I remember going on one of these many years ago. I'm not sure if it was the same thing but we have a Save Our Lake organization for Lake Pontchartrain down here and I did participate (mainly since this hot girl asked me to). LOL Of course, I wore a mask so none of my conservative friends would see me in case my picture made it in any of the papers. I did wear out my left shoe from having to lean left so much that day. LOL My attitude is that they should prosecute litterers more effectively and make the people caught littering do this kind of cleanup.... let the punishment fit the crime! Whew.. I'm back to being a good conservative again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of GEF/UNDP/UNOPS PEMSEA Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Happy International Coastal Clean Up Day! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 8:31:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29991	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

If you would have read my blog article about how we survived Katrina, a better thing to do would have been to keep pouring water into your filter reservoirs (easy on HOB's, tougher on canisters) every hour or two. I used a 32 oz. go-cup and a funnel to do this with water right out of the tank. For Katrina, I would do one 32 oz. cup per gallon on each tank every hour or so. This would have provided the aeration when the water splashes back into the tank and it would have also kept your bio-filtration alive. After a couple of hours, the water in a filter reservoir starts to go rancid due to all the detritus in there and the dying good bacteria that dies due to lack of oxygenated water. I hope you knew to empty your reservoirs and clean your filter media before starting them back up. You don't want all that stagnant/rancid water full of dead bacteria going into your tank. Of course, since you were doing lots of PWC's, that would have diluted the water anyhow but it's better to NOT have it go in the tank in the first place. If you didn't do filter maintenance, do so now and do a couple of PWC's to dilute any pollution that did get into the tank. For Gustav, when I had two 12 hour periods of no power, I had one filter on each of my tanks running off my generator when I had it running and then running for five minute increments every hour, off of my UPS battery backups when the generator wasn't running. If I would have known the power was only going to be out a total of 24 hours, I would have ran the generator full time but I kept it to 4 hour intervals to conserve my gas. Of course, I had my two trucks filled up, that I would have siphoned if the power was out for weeks like after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! I lost power from Saturday until around nine p.m. Monday. I was worried about my fish too. I kept my Python handy and kept siphoning water and refilling with aeriated water every hour. I didn't loose anybody. I sure am tired though. I bet I sleep tonight. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Wendy Myers To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! For those of you that did not have direct impact from this storm, I live in Cypress, TX and I was literally TERRIFIED as this storm blew through! I have 7 freshwater aquariums, 1 that's 55 gallons that I just set up about a week ago, and we lost power at 1:30 a.m. early Saturday morning and just regained power at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday afternoon! I was hearing on the radio (and that's all the communication that I had with the world outside) that it could be as long as 2 to 4 weeks before the power came back on! I was really afraid that I would lose all my fish due to this uncontrollable catastophy - I'm a single mom and could not afford to have a generator to keep my stuff going! All in all I guess I'm lucky because I only lost 2 Angelfish, but I had these fish for a very long time and the grew from about nickel size to majorly over half dollar size and it really pained me to lose them! Also, I'm glad I was on top of the situation because as soon as I noticed they died I removed them from the tank (even with this the water had begun to turn rancid from the deaths due to no circulation), I never thought ahead of just what could happen, and I was one of the lucky ones that not only got through the storm with my house in tact and not have my power for long enough to kill my hobby totally, but are there any other members of this site that have a story to tell?? On Sun, 9/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:29 PM OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tony Lucas Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Hi living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. Tony Lucas <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/> > > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464> > > > .com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/> > > > ll.blogspot. com/ ------------ -- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad% 40witchnet. org> org>: ------------ -- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. > com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need > warmer waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in > the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since > midday can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones > mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 > 2:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com <http://www.avg. com> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 12:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:02:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:29:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3439 (20080912) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29992	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers

As was mentioned by Ray, you need not worry obsessively about the salinity in a brackish tank, as it can vary, just as it does in a natural brackish environment. When the water evaporates, and it can evaporate just as fast in a pure freshwater tank as well, the salinity will rise. When you do a water change, you should add freshwater to the tank to bring the salinity back down, then change the water. The replacement water should be near the same salinity as the tank, though, it does not really matter that it may be less or more. In your case, you are near the upper limit of what is considered to be brackish in a tank. When I have maintained brackish tanks, I have always used marine salt mix as the salt for the water--you didn't mention, nor ask, I'm just throwing this in, and I would normally mix it to the lower end of the scale. When I would do a water change, sometimes I would add plain freshwater to the tank for the evaporation, then siphon, and add the mixed water. Sometimes I would skip that step and add the mixed water without adding the fresh, which would raise the salinity. Over the next few weeks, I'd slowly bring it down by introducing water of less salinity. The fish did very well. For those of you freshwater people who have read this far, a word about evaporation in FW tanks. The water evaporated will eventually cause your hardness to rise. It will be a slow, gradual rise, so you do need to keep an eye on it. When it does rise noticeably, you may wish to add some distilled or RO water to the amount of water you use to replace the removed water to cut the hardness down. As always, you want to aim for a slow gradual change, not something rapid, for the health of your fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K'lyn Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers Sorry guys. It was a typo. Our tank is at 1.015 just to clarify. Being new at the brackish thing I didn't realize how quickly salt water evaporates in a small tank and have to watch it closely or it goes at about a gallon a week and I also didn't realize the salinity goes with it. It's interesting. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Exactly how are you arriving at the 1.5 figure for salinity? After all > most marine tanks are kept at 1.023-1.025 and brackish people usually > aim for around 1.010-1.015, but don't worry too much about it (that's > what brackish water normally is, changeable). > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of K'lyn > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers > > We have 2 fig 8's in a 10 gal brackish tank at 1.5 salinity. They were > babies in fresh water when we got them so they had to be adapted but > they're thriving and doing well. Hoping to move them to a 30 gallong > hex tank that I got out of the local swap sheet soon. Freecycle.org > and Craigslist is another great place to find good deals. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29993	From: Peaches	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

I didn'ty have time or money to go and buy a seperate filter. My tank is a coffee table tank and you can't hang the filter on the back of the tank. Mine is submerged. I of course changed the filter media and cleaned it out. I didn't know what else to do for my fish since I had nothing else to use. I thought keeping the oxygen to the tank was important for the fish. I guess I must be stupid or something. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! If you would have read my blog article about how we survived Katrina, a better thing to do would have been to keep pouring water into your filter reservoirs (easy on HOB's, tougher on canisters) every hour or two. I used a 32 oz. go-cup and a funnel to do this with water right out of the tank. For Katrina, I would do one 32 oz. cup per gallon on each tank every hour or so. This would have provided the aeration when the water splashes back into the tank and it would have also kept your bio-filtration alive. After a couple of hours, the water in a filter reservoir starts to go rancid due to all the detritus in there and the dying good bacteria that dies due to lack of oxygenated water. I hope you knew to empty your reservoirs and clean your filter media before starting them back up. You don't want all that stagnant/rancid water full of dead bacteria going into your tank. Of course, since you were doing lots of PWC's, that would have diluted the water anyhow but it's better to NOT have it go in the tank in the first place. If you didn't do filter maintenance, do so now and do a couple of PWC's to dilute any pollution that did get into the tank. For Gustav, when I had two 12 hour periods of no power, I had one filter on each of my tanks running off my generator when I had it running and then running for five minute increments every hour, off of my UPS battery backups when the generator wasn't running. If I would have known the power was only going to be out a total of 24 hours, I would have ran the generator full time but I kept it to 4 hour intervals to conserve my gas. Of course, I had my two trucks filled up, that I would have siphoned if the power was out for weeks like after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! I lost power from Saturday until around nine p.m. Monday. I was worried about my fish too. I kept my Python handy and kept siphoning water and refilling with aeriated water every hour. I didn't loose anybody. I sure am tired though. I bet I sleep tonight. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Wendy Myers To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! For those of you that did not have direct impact from this storm, I live in Cypress, TX and I was literally TERRIFIED as this storm blew through! I have 7 freshwater aquariums, 1 that's 55 gallons that I just set up about a week ago, and we lost power at 1:30 a.m. early Saturday morning and just regained power at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday afternoon! I was hearing on the radio (and that's all the communication that I had with the world outside) that it could be as long as 2 to 4 weeks before the power came back on! I was really afraid that I would lose all my fish due to this uncontrollable catastophy - I'm a single mom and could not afford to have a generator to keep my stuff going! All in all I guess I'm lucky because I only lost 2 Angelfish, but I had these fish for a very long time and the grew from about nickel size to majorly over half dollar size and it really pained me to lose them! Also, I'm glad I was on top of the situation because as soon as I noticed they died I removed them from the tank (even with this the water had begun to turn rancid from the deaths due to no circulation), I never thought ahead of just what could happen, and I was one of the lucky ones that not only got through the storm with my house in tact and not have my power for long enough to kill my hobby totally, but are there any other members of this site that have a story to tell?? On Sun, 9/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:29 PM OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tony Lucas Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Hi living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. Tony Lucas <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/> > > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464> > > > .com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/> > > > ll.blogspot. com/ ------------ -- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad% 40witchnet. org> org>: ------------ -- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. > com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need > warmer waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in > the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since > midday can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones > mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 > 2:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com <http://www.avg. com> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 12:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:02:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:29:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3439 (20080912) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 8:33:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 8:46:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3443 (20080915) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29994	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

No, you're certainly not stupid and I don't think I said anything to imply that. You did a good thing with the PWC's. I was just offering more info on how to keep your biological filter alive (the nitrifying bacteria). I'm not sure how your filter works but I would imagine there must be a reservoir that the filter media sits in and it would have been better to manually pour water through the filter but as long as your fish made it, then all is good. Just keep an eye on your ammonia/nitrite levels and be prepared to do PWC's as needed should they start to go up as you could have lost a big part of your biological filtration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! I didn'ty have time or money to go and buy a seperate filter. My tank is a coffee table tank and you can't hang the filter on the back of the tank. Mine is submerged. I of course changed the filter media and cleaned it out. I didn't know what else to do for my fish since I had nothing else to use. I thought keeping the oxygen to the tank was important for the fish. I guess I must be stupid or something. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! If you would have read my blog article about how we survived Katrina, a better thing to do would have been to keep pouring water into your filter reservoirs (easy on HOB's, tougher on canisters) every hour or two. I used a 32 oz. go-cup and a funnel to do this with water right out of the tank. For Katrina, I would do one 32 oz. cup per gallon on each tank every hour or so. This would have provided the aeration when the water splashes back into the tank and it would have also kept your bio-filtration alive. After a couple of hours, the water in a filter reservoir starts to go rancid due to all the detritus in there and the dying good bacteria that dies due to lack of oxygenated water. I hope you knew to empty your reservoirs and clean your filter media before starting them back up. You don't want all that stagnant/rancid water full of dead bacteria going into your tank. Of course, since you were doing lots of PWC's, that would have diluted the water anyhow but it's better to NOT have it go in the tank in the first place. If you didn't do filter maintenance, do so now and do a couple of PWC's to dilute any pollution that did get into the tank. For Gustav, when I had two 12 hour periods of no power, I had one filter on each of my tanks running off my generator when I had it running and then running for five minute increments every hour, off of my UPS battery backups when the generator wasn't running. If I would have known the power was only going to be out a total of 24 hours, I would have ran the generator full time but I kept it to 4 hour intervals to conserve my gas. Of course, I had my two trucks filled up, that I would have siphoned if the power was out for weeks like after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! I lost power from Saturday until around nine p.m. Monday. I was worried about my fish too. I kept my Python handy and kept siphoning water and refilling with aeriated water every hour. I didn't loose anybody. I sure am tired though. I bet I sleep tonight. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Wendy Myers To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! For those of you that did not have direct impact from this storm, I live in Cypress, TX and I was literally TERRIFIED as this storm blew through! I have 7 freshwater aquariums, 1 that's 55 gallons that I just set up about a week ago, and we lost power at 1:30 a.m. early Saturday morning and just regained power at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday afternoon! I was hearing on the radio (and that's all the communication that I had with the world outside) that it could be as long as 2 to 4 weeks before the power came back on! I was really afraid that I would lose all my fish due to this uncontrollable catastophy - I'm a single mom and could not afford to have a generator to keep my stuff going! All in all I guess I'm lucky because I only lost 2 Angelfish, but I had these fish for a very long time and the grew from about nickel size to majorly over half dollar size and it really pained me to lose them! Also, I'm glad I was on top of the situation because as soon as I noticed they died I removed them from the tank (even with this the water had begun to turn rancid from the deaths due to no circulation), I never thought ahead of just what could happen, and I was one of the lucky ones that not only got through the storm with my house in tact and not have my power for long enough to kill my hobby totally, but are there any other members of this site that have a story to tell?? On Sun, 9/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:29 PM OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tony Lucas Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Hi living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. Tony Lucas <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/> > > > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464> > > > > .com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/> > > > ll.blogspot. com/ ------------ -- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad% 40witchnet. org> org>: ------------ -- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. > com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need > warmer waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in > the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since > midday can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones > mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 > 2:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com <http://www.avg. com> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 12:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:02:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:29:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3439 (20080912) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 8:33:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 8:46:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3443 (20080915) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 11:26:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 11:49:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29995	From: Edgar Javison	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog

From GoldLenny <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-l\ ist.html> , there is this statement: Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat them. I'd like to ask Lenny if this also applies to the albino clawed frog? Can I mix it with a Betta? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29996	From: Peaches	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

The filter is on the floor of the tank. It is a Fluval 4 Plus . The sponges fit together inside a gridlike basket. But the unit itself is on the floor of the tank covered in water. I can't poor the water into anything. I also have a submersible UV sterilizer in the tank. It has the same kind of grid structure to it. I don't think I had another choice. All levels are fine for now. I will check them every day. I only added short bursts of water to keep oxygen going and when the tank got full I siphoned some water out to keep adding more oxygen. I don't see well so buckets would be hard for me in the dark. I couldn't stand to loose this big ole whale. He is so trusting and loveable. I know no one here likes him because he is a BP but when he looks at me, I know what he is thinking. When I saw fear in his eyes, I could never leave his side. I swear it seemed that after he knew II was going to help him he just looked trustingly up at me and swam around as usual. I didn't feed him as I had heard not to. We got caught by Ike hard. Many houses damaged and roofs blown away. I can't find some of my friends in TX and some in LA. I am glad all weathered the storm okay. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! No, you're certainly not stupid and I don't think I said anything to imply that. You did a good thing with the PWC's. I was just offering more info on how to keep your biological filter alive (the nitrifying bacteria). I'm not sure how your filter works but I would imagine there must be a reservoir that the filter media sits in and it would have been better to manually pour water through the filter but as long as your fish made it, then all is good. Just keep an eye on your ammonia/nitrite levels and be prepared to do PWC's as needed should they start to go up as you could have lost a big part of your biological filtration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! I didn'ty have time or money to go and buy a seperate filter. My tank is a coffee table tank and you can't hang the filter on the back of the tank. Mine is submerged. I of course changed the filter media and cleaned it out. I didn't know what else to do for my fish since I had nothing else to use. I thought keeping the oxygen to the tank was important for the fish. I guess I must be stupid or something. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! If you would have read my blog article about how we survived Katrina, a better thing to do would have been to keep pouring water into your filter reservoirs (easy on HOB's, tougher on canisters) every hour or two. I used a 32 oz. go-cup and a funnel to do this with water right out of the tank. For Katrina, I would do one 32 oz. cup per gallon on each tank every hour or so. This would have provided the aeration when the water splashes back into the tank and it would have also kept your bio-filtration alive. After a couple of hours, the water in a filter reservoir starts to go rancid due to all the detritus in there and the dying good bacteria that dies due to lack of oxygenated water. I hope you knew to empty your reservoirs and clean your filter media before starting them back up. You don't want all that stagnant/rancid water full of dead bacteria going into your tank. Of course, since you were doing lots of PWC's, that would have diluted the water anyhow but it's better to NOT have it go in the tank in the first place. If you didn't do filter maintenance, do so now and do a couple of PWC's to dilute any pollution that did get into the tank. For Gustav, when I had two 12 hour periods of no power, I had one filter on each of my tanks running off my generator when I had it running and then running for five minute increments every hour, off of my UPS battery backups when the generator wasn't running. If I would have known the power was only going to be out a total of 24 hours, I would have ran the generator full time but I kept it to 4 hour intervals to conserve my gas. Of course, I had my two trucks filled up, that I would have siphoned if the power was out for weeks like after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! I lost power from Saturday until around nine p.m. Monday. I was worried about my fish too. I kept my Python handy and kept siphoning water and refilling with aeriated water every hour. I didn't loose anybody. I sure am tired though. I bet I sleep tonight. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Wendy Myers To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! For those of you that did not have direct impact from this storm, I live in Cypress, TX and I was literally TERRIFIED as this storm blew through! I have 7 freshwater aquariums, 1 that's 55 gallons that I just set up about a week ago, and we lost power at 1:30 a.m. early Saturday morning and just regained power at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday afternoon! I was hearing on the radio (and that's all the communication that I had with the world outside) that it could be as long as 2 to 4 weeks before the power came back on! I was really afraid that I would lose all my fish due to this uncontrollable catastophy - I'm a single mom and could not afford to have a generator to keep my stuff going! All in all I guess I'm lucky because I only lost 2 Angelfish, but I had these fish for a very long time and the grew from about nickel size to majorly over half dollar size and it really pained me to lose them! Also, I'm glad I was on top of the situation because as soon as I noticed they died I removed them from the tank (even with this the water had begun to turn rancid from the deaths due to no circulation), I never thought ahead of just what could happen, and I was one of the lucky ones that not only got through the storm with my house in tact and not have my power for long enough to kill my hobby totally, but are there any other members of this site that have a story to tell?? On Sun, 9/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:29 PM OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tony Lucas Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Hi living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. Tony Lucas <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/> > > > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464> > > > > .com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/> > > > ll.blogspot. com/ ------------ -- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad% 40witchnet. org> org>: ------------ -- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. > com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need > warmer waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in > the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since > midday can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones > mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 > 2:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com <http://www.avg. com> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 12:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:02:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:29:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

OK. I took a look at the Fluval 4 Plus (Internal Filter) http://www.aquariumguys.com/fluvalinternal3.html and since it was a submersible in-the-tank filter, the N-bacteria may have benefitted from your manual aeration methods. N-bacteria need lots of O2 so next time you have a power outage, remove any really dirty filter media and give it a mild cleaning with dechlored water and let the cleaner filter media just float in your tank so it would be exposed to more O2 and also so it would be able to "eat" any ammonia that is available. With the media still in the filter system, it was less likely to get water flowing around/through it. Remember that you could have just as easily taken a plastic cup and just dip it into the tank and then pour the water back into the tank which would have cause the surface agitation necessary to allow for gas exchange with CO2 outgasing and O2 ingasing into the water. As long as your water supply was fresh, clean and non-toxic, then what you did was fine. As you may have heard, Houston is under a boil water alert as their water plant lost power so the water may not be safe. I did not have completely safe water after Katrina for five weeks so I couldn't just add tap water via PWC's to my tanks. I did use some of my bottle spring water that I got during the daily handouts from FEMA to top-off the evaporated water and to actually do a small PWC on the tanks but it wasn't much. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! The filter is on the floor of the tank. It is a Fluval 4 Plus . The sponges fit together inside a gridlike basket. But the unit itself is on the floor of the tank covered in water. I can't poor the water into anything. I also have a submersible UV sterilizer in the tank. It has the same kind of grid structure to it. I don't think I had another choice. All levels are fine for now. I will check them every day. I only added short bursts of water to keep oxygen going and when the tank got full I siphoned some water out to keep adding more oxygen. I don't see well so buckets would be hard for me in the dark. I couldn't stand to loose this big ole whale. He is so trusting and loveable. I know no one here likes him because he is a BP but when he looks at me, I know what he is thinking. When I saw fear in his eyes, I could never leave his side. I swear it seemed that after he knew II was going to help him he just looked trustingly up at me and swam around as usual. I didn't feed him as I had heard not to. We got caught by Ike hard. Many houses damaged and roofs blown away. I can't find some of my friends in TX and some in LA. I am glad all weathered the storm okay. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! No, you're certainly not stupid and I don't think I said anything to imply that. You did a good thing with the PWC's. I was just offering more info on how to keep your biological filter alive (the nitrifying bacteria). I'm not sure how your filter works but I would imagine there must be a reservoir that the filter media sits in and it would have been better to manually pour water through the filter but as long as your fish made it, then all is good. Just keep an eye on your ammonia/nitrite levels and be prepared to do PWC's as needed should they start to go up as you could have lost a big part of your biological filtration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! I didn'ty have time or money to go and buy a seperate filter. My tank is a coffee table tank and you can't hang the filter on the back of the tank. Mine is submerged. I of course changed the filter media and cleaned it out. I didn't know what else to do for my fish since I had nothing else to use. I thought keeping the oxygen to the tank was important for the fish. I guess I must be stupid or something. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! If you would have read my blog article about how we survived Katrina, a better thing to do would have been to keep pouring water into your filter reservoirs (easy on HOB's, tougher on canisters) every hour or two. I used a 32 oz. go-cup and a funnel to do this with water right out of the tank. For Katrina, I would do one 32 oz. cup per gallon on each tank every hour or so. This would have provided the aeration when the water splashes back into the tank and it would have also kept your bio-filtration alive. After a couple of hours, the water in a filter reservoir starts to go rancid due to all the detritus in there and the dying good bacteria that dies due to lack of oxygenated water. I hope you knew to empty your reservoirs and clean your filter media before starting them back up. You don't want all that stagnant/rancid water full of dead bacteria going into your tank. Of course, since you were doing lots of PWC's, that would have diluted the water anyhow but it's better to NOT have it go in the tank in the first place. If you didn't do filter maintenance, do so now and do a couple of PWC's to dilute any pollution that did get into the tank. For Gustav, when I had two 12 hour periods of no power, I had one filter on each of my tanks running off my generator when I had it running and then running for five minute increments every hour, off of my UPS battery backups when the generator wasn't running. If I would have known the power was only going to be out a total of 24 hours, I would have ran the generator full time but I kept it to 4 hour intervals to conserve my gas. Of course, I had my two trucks filled up, that I would have siphoned if the power was out for weeks like after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! I lost power from Saturday until around nine p.m. Monday. I was worried about my fish too. I kept my Python handy and kept siphoning water and refilling with aeriated water every hour. I didn't loose anybody. I sure am tired though. I bet I sleep tonight. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Wendy Myers To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! For those of you that did not have direct impact from this storm, I live in Cypress, TX and I was literally TERRIFIED as this storm blew through! I have 7 freshwater aquariums, 1 that's 55 gallons that I just set up about a week ago, and we lost power at 1:30 a.m. early Saturday morning and just regained power at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday afternoon! I was hearing on the radio (and that's all the communication that I had with the world outside) that it could be as long as 2 to 4 weeks before the power came back on! I was really afraid that I would lose all my fish due to this uncontrollable catastophy - I'm a single mom and could not afford to have a generator to keep my stuff going! All in all I guess I'm lucky because I only lost 2 Angelfish, but I had these fish for a very long time and the grew from about nickel size to majorly over half dollar size and it really pained me to lose them! Also, I'm glad I was on top of the situation because as soon as I noticed they died I removed them from the tank (even with this the water had begun to turn rancid from the deaths due to no circulation), I never thought ahead of just what could happen, and I was one of the lucky ones that not only got through the storm with my house in tact and not have my power for long enough to kill my hobby totally, but are there any other members of this site that have a story to tell?? On Sun, 9/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:29 PM OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tony Lucas Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Hi living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. Tony Lucas <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/> > > > > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464> > > > > > .com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/> > > > ll.blogspot. com/ ------------ -- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad% 40witchnet. org> org>: ------------ -- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. > com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need > warmer waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in > the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since > midday can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones > mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080912-1, 09/12/2008 Tested on: 9/13/2008 > 2:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com <http://www.avg. com> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 12:50 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:02:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080914-0, 09/14/2008 Tested on: 9/14/2008 4:29:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3439 (20080912) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> > > <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> > <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> > <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 8:33:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 8:46:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3443 (20080915) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 11:26:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/15/2008 11:49:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3443 (20080915) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:53:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 1:06:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29998	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog

ACF's (African Clawed Frogs, whether normal or albino) get much larger than ADF's and ACF's are carnivores and will eat anything that will fit in their mouth so no... a Betta is not a good idea as it could easily become lunch or even it is never eaten, the stress would likely cause many health issues for the betta. Imagine the stress you would feel if you were locked in a room with Hannibal Lector. He may not ever eat your face off but just knowing he might would cause you many nights of little or no sleep. ;-) ACF's get too big for a 10G tank although I have seen some care sheets saying that 10G was enough water. Other care sheets say 15-20G per ACF. There is one out there with a serious typo (I hope) and it says 1G per ACF. Of course, there are goldfish care sheets that say 1G is OK for them too.. but it's not. ACF's grow to over 3" long and the females even larger. They are wide bodied and carnivores, so that means their waste is a lot more of an issue which is why they need lots of water volume to dilute their waste in between PWC's (partial water changes). Here are a couple of good care sheets that I have in my favorites folder. http://www.flippersandfins.net/acfcaresheet.asp http://aquaticfrogs.tripod.com/id1.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Javison Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog From GoldLenny <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list. html <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list. html <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list. html> > > , there is this statement: Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat them. I'd like to ask Lenny if this also applies to the albino clawed frog? Can I mix it with a Betta? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 1:18:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 1:29:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 29999	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike!

I've not yet seen, in this discussion, the use of a battery operated air pump, such as those sold in bait shops to keep your live fish bait alive in the can. Such a pump will not only help water circulate, and keep the gaseous exchange at an acceptable level, but can be used to dive a small bubble-up or sponge filter. All that is needed is an appropriate sized battery supply, some many people have hiding away in a closet. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! I didn'ty have time or money to go and buy a seperate filter. My tank is a coffee table tank and you can't hang the filter on the back of the tank. Mine is submerged. I of course changed the filter media and cleaned it out. I didn't know what else to do for my fish since I had nothing else to use. I thought keeping the oxygen to the tank was important for the fish. I guess I must be stupid or something. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! If you would have read my blog article about how we survived Katrina, a better thing to do would have been to keep pouring water into your filter reservoirs (easy on HOB's, tougher on canisters) every hour or two. I used a 32 oz. go-cup and a funnel to do this with water right out of the tank. For Katrina, I would do one 32 oz. cup per gallon on each tank every hour or so. This would have provided the aeration when the water splashes back into the tank and it would have also kept your bio-filtration alive. After a couple of hours, the water in a filter reservoir starts to go rancid due to all the detritus in there and the dying good bacteria that dies due to lack of oxygenated water. I hope you knew to empty your reservoirs and clean your filter media before starting them back up. You don't want all that stagnant/rancid water full of dead bacteria going into your tank. Of course, since you were doing lots of PWC's, that would have diluted the water anyhow but it's better to NOT have it go in the tank in the first place. If you didn't do filter maintenance, do so now and do a couple of PWC's to dilute any pollution that did get into the tank. For Gustav, when I had two 12 hour periods of no power, I had one filter on each of my tanks running off my generator when I had it running and then running for five minute increments every hour, off of my UPS battery backups when the generator wasn't running. If I would have known the power was only going to be out a total of 24 hours, I would have ran the generator full time but I kept it to 4 hour intervals to conserve my gas. Of course, I had my two trucks filled up, that I would have siphoned if the power was out for weeks like after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! I lost power from Saturday until around nine p.m. Monday. I was worried about my fish too. I kept my Python handy and kept siphoning water and refilling with aeriated water every hour. I didn't loose anybody. I sure am tired though. I bet I sleep tonight. Hugs, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Wendy Myers To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] RE:AquaticLife] Re: My Fish and Survived Hurricane Ike! For those of you that did not have direct impact from this storm, I live in Cypress, TX and I was literally TERRIFIED as this storm blew through! I have 7 freshwater aquariums, 1 that's 55 gallons that I just set up about a week ago, and we lost power at 1:30 a.m. early Saturday morning and just regained power at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday afternoon! I was hearing on the radio (and that's all the communication that I had with the world outside) that it could be as long as 2 to 4 weeks before the power came back on! I was really afraid that I would lose all my fish due to this uncontrollable catastophy - I'm a single mom and could not afford to have a generator to keep my stuff going! All in all I guess I'm lucky because I only lost 2 Angelfish, but I had these fish for a very long time and the grew from about nickel size to majorly over half dollar size and it really pained me to lose them! Also, I'm glad I was on top of the situation because as soon as I noticed they died I removed them from the tank (even with this the water had begun to turn rancid from the deaths due to no circulation), I never thought ahead of just what could happen, and I was one of the lucky ones that not only got through the storm with my house in tact and not have my power for long enough to kill my hobby totally, but are there any other members of this site that have a story to tell?? On Sun, 9/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:29 PM OK... so Tropical Cyclones are the same as a Tropical Storm which then becomes a Hurricane as it grows and the Tropical Cyclones become a Typhoon which is the same as a Hurricane. In the U.S., storms that start off in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico become Hurricanes where storms that begin in the Pacific become Typhoons... I think. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tony Lucas Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Hi living in the Southern Hemisphere - Tropical Cyclones are similar to Typhoons, after a system reaches a certain point on the scale, I cant remember which- they are classified as a Typhoon. I think it works similar to Tropical depreassion = Tropical Cyclone. And yes Tsunami = darn big wave. Tony Lucas <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/ <http://ufoinvestiga tor.tripod. com/> > > > Director New Zeland Un-Natural Mystery Centre. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, 14 September 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike Typhoons are hurricanes in the Pacific, Tsunamies are tidalwaves, a water surge is not a tidal wave. Cylones I believe are Toronados and south of the Equater WAlla-wallas are Hurricames. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464 <http://www.shelfari .com/o1518107464> > > > .com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/ <http://loomingragdo ll.blogspot. com/> > > > ll.blogspot. com/ ------------ -- Original message from "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad% 40witchnet. org> org>: ------------ -- > Typhoons aren't tidal waves.that would be a Tsunami. Typhoons are > hurricanes.not sure who calls them a typhoon. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. > com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > > > Oops.. that's right.. Pacific hurricanes are cyclones, not typhoons. > Typhoons are tidal waves... duh! LOL Yeah, that's true, they need > warmer waters to grow so I guess that's why they don't do so well in > the southern > most areas of AU. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of cin > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hurricane Ike > > Glad to hear your safe I have been watching Ike on Foxnews since > midday can't believe the reporter are out in it. We get Cyclones > mainly up the top > end in Queensland and Darwin I live on the east coast of Australia We worry > more about bush fires We get to odd mini cyclone like in june > 2007 >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30000	From: Suzi	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog

I have a crown tail Betta in a 20 gal tank with a Plecostomus and they get along fine. No nipped fins on Plecostomus either. ----- Have a great day! Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Edgar Javison To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog From GoldLenny <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-l\ ist.html> , there is this statement: Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat them. I'd like to ask Lenny if this also applies to the albino clawed frog? Can I mix it with a Betta? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30001	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: New group member introduction

Hello, My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the past 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the tanks. I was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still trying to determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses last night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a Christmas Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots of other plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco-complete was really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 years old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other than incrediably cranky - lol) I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a medium koi pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still gathering the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I do this properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black Malaysian) living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are already trained to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they arch themselves under your finger like they were cats. We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive Samoyed rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. Looking forward to learning more, Chris

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30002	From: ED	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Brackish / Salt for Figure Eight Puffers

Appreciate the info yet no answers to moving the 8's to full salt. Apparently they live in rivers in asia(fresh) so I do believe that's not an option. BTW scored a brand new 29gal from Wal-Mart clearance sale $25 with hood, filter, heater(original price ($97)). Just couldn't pass it up. So watch you local Wally world for clearance items as well. > > Right \\Steve//, I wouldn't worry much about the difference between 1.010 and > 1.015 for brackish water neither, as long as it stays somewhat within that > range -- it can constantly change with the tides in a natural setting (depending > on the particular location's proximity to fresh water). But I would still be > most concerned about that 1.5 figure. That's umteen times more saline than > sea water. Probably (maybe?) just a typo . . . but . . . > > Ray </HTML> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30003	From: ED	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

Welcome aboard Chris you'll find plenty of info through the links area and plenty of advice from long time keepers of fish and ponds here. Sunshine and Gentle Breezes --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Owens" <chris_o_p@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the past > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the > tanks. I was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am > still trying to determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the > wet/dry hoses last night and will be starting it up tonight! :D > Looking into doing a Christmas Moss wall across the back and a > driftwood with star moss with lots of other plants in a real honest > to goodness substrate. I was told Eco-complete was really good and > the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a guarantee > so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 > years old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type > other than incrediably cranky - lol) > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a medium > koi pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still > gathering the materials I will need for this and taking classes to > ensure I do this properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and > two black Malaysian) living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should > have gotten the pond together first but we sooo couldn't help > ourselves. They are already trained to come to the top of the tank > for pets and treats, I swear they arch themselves under your finger > like they were cats. > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive > Samoyed rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find > myself into. > > Looking forward to learning more, > > Chris >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30004	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

LOL, I'm already taking full advantage of the files on substrate in the file section. Thank you for the warm welcome! Chris from Virginia --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <crowstarwalker@...> wrote: > > Welcome aboard Chris you'll find plenty of info through the links > area and plenty of advice from long time keepers of fish and ponds > here. > Sunshine and Gentle Breezes > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Owens" <chris_o_p@> > wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the > past > > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the > > tanks. I was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I > am > > still trying to determine exactly what it is, I just figured out > the > > wet/dry hoses last night and will be starting it up tonight! :D > > Looking into doing a Christmas Moss wall across the back and a > > driftwood with star moss with lots of other plants in a real honest > > to goodness substrate. I was told Eco-complete was really good and > > the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a > guarantee > > so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the > > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 > > years old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type > > other than incrediably cranky - lol) > > > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a > medium > > koi pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm > still > > gathering the materials I will need for this and taking classes to > > ensure I do this properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly > and > > two black Malaysian) living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we > should > > have gotten the pond together first but we sooo couldn't help > > ourselves. They are already trained to come to the top of the tank > > for pets and treats, I swear they arch themselves under your finger > > like they were cats. > > > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive > > Samoyed rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find > > myself into. > > > > Looking forward to learning more, > > > > Chris > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog

Hi Suzi, If the Pleco is a Common pleco, they get much too big (15"++) for a 20G. They need at least 75G of water volume each. Even the dwarf species like the Clown pleco, Bushy Nosed pleco, etc. grow to 5"+ but they could make it in a 20G, especially a 20G Long tank, as long as frequent PWC's are done. Even though the dwarf species only reach 5"+, they are wide bodied fish so they have the bioload of a much larger fish. Do you know what kind of pleco that you have? If you do have a common, some LFS will set up a program where you can trade them in, every six months to a year, for a new juvi and then they can sell the larger pleco to people with big tanks and big fish. That's what I did with the one I adopted from a 10G, who was getting too big for my 65G after only 18 months. I hated to see him go since he kept my tank spotless but now he's living in a nice big 150G and I have a juvi clown pleco now. Make sure you feed him well also. If you want some links to good feeding articles, let me know. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog I have a crown tail Betta in a 20 gal tank with a Plecostomus and they get along fine. No nipped fins on Plecostomus either. ----- Have a great day! Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Edgar Javison To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog From GoldLenny <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-l\ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-l> ist.html> , there is this statement: Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat them. I'd like to ask Lenny if this also applies to the albino clawed frog? Can I mix it with a Betta? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 10:26:53 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 10:48:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30006	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

Hi Chris, First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter entertainment fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since I'm down there. Welcome to the group. Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure they'll agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to plant and the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially during the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely love your planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't fed enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet should be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and give us the links. As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" and not just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular goldfish aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and BIG dogs too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", usually in their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least 300G and preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also preferred. I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move them out of that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) while they are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not start to suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are probably still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the most and fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish (80-100+ years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to them initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in the first couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in large water volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth rate slows down over the rest of their long lives. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction Hello, My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the past 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the tanks. I was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still trying to determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses last night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a Christmas Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots of other plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco-complete was really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 years old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other than incrediably cranky - lol) I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a medium koi pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still gathering the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I do this properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black Malaysian) living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are already trained to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they arch themselves under your finger like they were cats. We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive Samoyed rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. Looking forward to learning more, Chris _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 11:18:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30007	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Nitrate levels

i'm having trouble cycling this tank, anybody know what is the best stablizer to use?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30008	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels

Tell us more about your tank. What kind of trouble are you having? Are you "Fishless Cycling" and if yes, which method are you using? Are you "Cycling With Fish"? What are your daily test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH for the past week or so? It's best if you keep a log during the cycling phase. I'm not sure what you mean by "stabilizer" so try to elaborate on what you mean. It's not good to use 90% of the chemical JUNK products that they sell in pet stores. They are usually only attempts at being quick fixes which more often result in quick breaks. There are a couple of new products out there, such as Dr. Tim's One And Only (one of the successors to Bio-Spira, which Dr. Tim invented) that will instantly cycle a new tank, prior to putting fish in the tank, but be warned that many of the products that claim to be bacteria-in-a-bottle simply do not work as advertised. I've tried many of them in my early years and I've seen countless forum threads from others where the products simply did not work and oftentimes made conditions worse. I have a page on my blog called "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and there are links to good articles on Fishless Cycling (preferred) and Cycling With Fish (not recommended) if you'd like to do more reading about these methods. Also on that page are links to two free online fish keeping tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics. Feel free to come back here and ask lots of questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrate levels i'm having trouble cycling this tank, anybody know what is the best stablizer to use? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 11:57:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30009	From: Suzi	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog

I'm not sure.. it's brown.. got him (don't shoot me) at Petsmart. It was about 1 1/2" then. He cleans up the algae.. I give him "Algae Grazers". I don't know what else to put in the tank to take care algae that the Betta would get along with that won't overload the tank and get big. I do water changes every week and vacuum the gravel every other week. ----- Have a great day! Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog Hi Suzi, If the Pleco is a Common pleco, they get much too big (15"++) for a 20G. They need at least 75G of water volume each. Even the dwarf species like the Clown pleco, Bushy Nosed pleco, etc. grow to 5"+ but they could make it in a 20G, especially a 20G Long tank, as long as frequent PWC's are done. Even though the dwarf species only reach 5"+, they are wide bodied fish so they have the bioload of a much larger fish. Do you know what kind of pleco that you have? If you do have a common, some LFS will set up a program where you can trade them in, every six months to a year, for a new juvi and then they can sell the larger pleco to people with big tanks and big fish. That's what I did with the one I adopted from a 10G, who was getting too big for my 65G after only 18 months. I hated to see him go since he kept my tank spotless but now he's living in a nice big 150G and I have a juvi clown pleco now. Make sure you feed him well also. If you want some links to good feeding articles, let me know. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog I have a crown tail Betta in a 20 gal tank with a Plecostomus and they get along fine. No nipped fins on Plecostomus either. ----- Have a great day! Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Edgar Javison To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog From GoldLenny <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-l\ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-l> ist.html> , there is this statement: Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat them. I'd like to ask Lenny if this also applies to the albino clawed frog? Can I mix it with a Betta? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 10:26:53 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 10:48:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30010	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels

2nd reply... I just saw the picture that you uploaded for your tank. Is this the same tank you were asking about in your initial post? I peeked at all of your pics in your photo album, http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186, and I see in the earlier pics that you had 4-5 fish but I only see one in the last picture you just uploaded. Did you lose these fish or return them? Anyhow, I'll wait for your answers to the questions in my previous reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrate levels i'm having trouble cycling this tank, anybody know what is the best stablizer to use? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:08:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30011	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels

yeah that's the tank, and i have one fish left from 6 so i lost 5 fish really quickly about 4 weeks into the new tank last test ph was about 8 nitrate was between 160-200 and nitrite between 5-10 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > 2nd reply... > > I just saw the picture that you uploaded for your tank. Is this the same > tank you were asking about in your initial post? I peeked at all of your > pics in your photo album, > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186, and I > see in the earlier pics that you had 4-5 fish but I only see one in the last > picture you just uploaded. Did you lose these fish or return them? Anyhow, > I'll wait for your answers to the questions in my previous reply. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrate levels > > i'm having trouble cycling this tank, anybody know what is the best > stablizer to use? > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:08:44 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30012	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Suzi's Pleco and Betta (was: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog)

Suzi, I changed the subject line so we don't hijack the previous thread. There's nothing wrong with shopping at PetsMart or Walmart or any other BIG BOX retailer. I try to support my LFS but if their prices are too far out of line or they do not have what I want, then I am thankful for the BIG BOX pet stores. I do prefer to get my fish at my LFS. I have a PetsMart a block from me and use them frequently for supplies and hardware. Here's a tip... always go to their website first and print out the pages of the items you are interested in as the stores will match their internet prices if you bring the page with the price. I save 30-50% this way. As far as the "brown" pleco, it seems 90% of them could be described that way. Since you aren't sure and you got him at PetsMart, we can assume he's a common pleco (called that because they are the most "common" in hobby). There are two species that are usually the most "common" and they both get BIG... with 18" to 24" as likely adult sizes so you can see why a 20G isn't large enough. 75G, 6' long tank, is the minimum recommended tank size for even a single fish and that is bare minimum. 150G would be better. Try to find a LFS (Local Fish Store) in your area and talk to the manager about trading in your pleco for a more suitable species like a Clown Pleco. They seem to be more readily available lately and I got mine for a couple of dollars several months ago. The Bristle Nosed plecos were around $7.00 and BN's get bigger than Clown's so you should stick with the Clown. Technically, your 20G is probably on the small end of tanks recommended for a Clown pleco but as long as you do your weekly PWC's and do not plan on other fish, you should be OK. There are other algae eating catfish that are much smaller, like the http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html and if your LFS has them, you might want to consider a shoal (5-6) of them instead of the clown pleco as they would be a much smaller bioload and then you could add other fish if you wanted. Go to my blog and read over the article "Hailey's 10G tank stocking suggestions" (I think that's the title.. lol) http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml and read the section on Bettas to get more ideas of other fish that would be suitable for your 20G. Actually, that section was snipped to form the basis of this thread so it's way down below. As always, quarantine any new fish before adding them to your main tank so you can acclimate them to your water parameters and watch them for any possible pathogens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog I'm not sure.. it's brown.. got him (don't shoot me) at Petsmart. It was about 1 1/2" then. He cleans up the algae.. I give him "Algae Grazers". I don't know what else to put in the tank to take care algae that the Betta would get along with that won't overload the tank and get big. I do water changes every week and vacuum the gravel every other week. ----- Have a great day! Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog Hi Suzi, If the Pleco is a Common pleco, they get much too big (15"++) for a 20G. They need at least 75G of water volume each. Even the dwarf species like the Clown pleco, Bushy Nosed pleco, etc. grow to 5"+ but they could make it in a 20G, especially a 20G Long tank, as long as frequent PWC's are done. Even though the dwarf species only reach 5"+, they are wide bodied fish so they have the bioload of a much larger fish. Do you know what kind of pleco that you have? If you do have a common, some LFS will set up a program where you can trade them in, every six months to a year, for a new juvi and then they can sell the larger pleco to people with big tanks and big fish. That's what I did with the one I adopted from a 10G, who was getting too big for my 65G after only 18 months. I hated to see him go since he kept my tank spotless but now he's living in a nice big 150G and I have a juvi clown pleco now. Make sure you feed him well also. If you want some links to good feeding articles, let me know. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Suzi Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog I have a crown tail Betta in a 20 gal tank with a Plecostomus and they get along fine. No nipped fins on Plecostomus either. ----- Have a great day! Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Edgar Javison To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog From GoldLenny http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml , there is this statement: Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat them. I'd like to ask Lenny if this also applies to the albino clawed frog? Can I mix it with a Betta? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:26:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30013	From: Suzi	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Suzi's Pleco and Betta (was: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog)

Thanks so much Lenny.. You have been a great help! I will look for some Otocinclus affinis. When I get some, I will give my friend the Pleco. He has a 75 gal tank with no Pleco in it. ----- Have a great day! Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Suzi's Pleco and Betta (was: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog) Suzi, I changed the subject line so we don't hijack the previous thread. There's nothing wrong with shopping at PetsMart or Walmart or any other BIG BOX retailer. I try to support my LFS but if their prices are too far out of line or they do not have what I want, then I am thankful for the BIG BOX pet stores. I do prefer to get my fish at my LFS. I have a PetsMart a block from me and use them frequently for supplies and hardware. Here's a tip... always go to their website first and print out the pages of the items you are interested in as the stores will match their internet prices if you bring the page with the price. I save 30-50% this way. As far as the "brown" pleco, it seems 90% of them could be described that way. Since you aren't sure and you got him at PetsMart, we can assume he's a common pleco (called that because they are the most "common" in hobby). There are two species that are usually the most "common" and they both get BIG... with 18" to 24" as likely adult sizes so you can see why a 20G isn't large enough. 75G, 6' long tank, is the minimum recommended tank size for even a single fish and that is bare minimum. 150G would be better. Try to find a LFS (Local Fish Store) in your area and talk to the manager about trading in your pleco for a more suitable species like a Clown Pleco. They seem to be more readily available lately and I got mine for a couple of dollars several months ago. The Bristle Nosed plecos were around $7.00 and BN's get bigger than Clown's so you should stick with the Clown. Technically, your 20G is probably on the small end of tanks recommended for a Clown pleco but as long as you do your weekly PWC's and do not plan on other fish, you should be OK. There are other algae eating catfish that are much smaller, like the http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html and if your LFS has them, you might want to consider a shoal (5-6) of them instead of the clown pleco as they would be a much smaller bioload and then you could add other fish if you wanted. Go to my blog and read over the article "Hailey's 10G tank stocking suggestions" (I think that's the title.. lol) http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml and read the section on Bettas to get more ideas of other fish that would be suitable for your 20G. Actually, that section was snipped to form the basis of this thread so it's way down below. As always, quarantine any new fish before adding them to your main tank so you can acclimate them to your water parameters and watch them for any possible pathogens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog I'm not sure.. it's brown.. got him (don't shoot me) at Petsmart. It was about 1 1/2" then. He cleans up the algae.. I give him "Algae Grazers". I don't know what else to put in the tank to take care algae that the Betta would get along with that won't overload the tank and get big. I do water changes every week and vacuum the gravel every other week. ----- Have a great day! Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog Hi Suzi, If the Pleco is a Common pleco, they get much too big (15"++) for a 20G. They need at least 75G of water volume each. Even the dwarf species like the Clown pleco, Bushy Nosed pleco, etc. grow to 5"+ but they could make it in a 20G, especially a 20G Long tank, as long as frequent PWC's are done. Even though the dwarf species only reach 5"+, they are wide bodied fish so they have the bioload of a much larger fish. Do you know what kind of pleco that you have? If you do have a common, some LFS will set up a program where you can trade them in, every six months to a year, for a new juvi and then they can sell the larger pleco to people with big tanks and big fish. That's what I did with the one I adopted from a 10G, who was getting too big for my 65G after only 18 months. I hated to see him go since he kept my tank spotless but now he's living in a nice big 150G and I have a juvi clown pleco now. Make sure you feed him well also. If you want some links to good feeding articles, let me know. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Suzi Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog I have a crown tail Betta in a 20 gal tank with a Plecostomus and they get along fine. No nipped fins on Plecostomus either. ----- Have a great day! Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Edgar Javison To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog From GoldLenny http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml , there is this statement: Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat them. I'd like to ask Lenny if this also applies to the albino clawed frog? Can I mix it with a Betta? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:26:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30014	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

(wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my future to figure out who that is... Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, I've never had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) and although she gave me all the foods for them (there's three different types all saying cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of doing right by them. I've always had plecos just never any this size and one that we've already named "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- style Chinese dragon is a really unique antique gold color, the other is the common leopard. I'll post pictures if anyone could give me a hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly appreciate it. The plecos have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets on clips so I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I have it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other two are much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm not going to be able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp I was originally considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I just need another tank - LOL And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm afraid I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where they are at all times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great Danes, my way of thinking is perhaps now I need two... :D Chris from Virginia The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not including the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with a "stream" of sorts going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going over the narrow part. The deepest will only be 3' though due to state regulations. Something about at that point it becomes a pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to the side which I am learning about in the pond class I am taking which sounds like a fantastic idea. The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at least a 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't get as large as the regular (yeah regular, they have better pedigree's than I do). Right now the tank they are in has an undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and gets a 1/3 water change every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a fairly high protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine shrimp once a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the first platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to come home when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take classes at. The only goldfish that really caught my eye was a shubunkin (sp?) that was swishing around more than a Southern Belle that I found amusing but I didn't take it home. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter entertainment > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since I'm down > there. Welcome to the group. > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure they'll > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to plant and > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially during > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely love your > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't fed > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet should > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and give us > the links. > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" and not > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular goldfish > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and BIG dogs > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", usually in > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least 300G and > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also preferred. > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move them out of > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) while they > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not start to > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are probably > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the most and > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish (80-100+ > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to them > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in the first > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in large water > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth rate > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > Hello, > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the past > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the tanks. I > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still trying to > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses last > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a Christmas > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots of other > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- complete was > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 years > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other than > incrediably cranky - lol) > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a medium koi > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still gathering > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I do this > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black Malaysian) > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are already trained > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they arch > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive Samoyed > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > Looking forward to learning more, > > Chris > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 11:18:48 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30015	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

Oh the Koi are about 3" long each at the moment. Chris from Virginia --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter entertainment > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since I'm down > there. Welcome to the group. > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure they'll > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to plant and > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially during > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely love your > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't fed > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet should > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and give us > the links. > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" and not > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular goldfish > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and BIG dogs > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", usually in > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least 300G and > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also preferred. > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move them out of > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) while they > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not start to > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are probably > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the most and > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish (80-100+ > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to them > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in the first > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in large water > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth rate > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > Hello, > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the past > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the tanks. I > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still trying to > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses last > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a Christmas > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots of other > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- complete was > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 years > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other than > incrediably cranky - lol) > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a medium koi > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still gathering > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I do this > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black Malaysian) > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are already trained > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they arch > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive Samoyed > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > Looking forward to learning more, > > Chris > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 11:18:48 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30016	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels

You need to immediately add a pinch of salt to the tank... just a pinch... as that will help protect your remaining fish from nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder). Your nitrite levels are WAY HIGH but the good thing is that you are close to finishing your "Cycling With Fish". This is why we recommend "Fishless Cycling" so much... so the fish do not have to go through the arduous process. You need to do a series of 25% PWC's, one PWC every few hours. The reason for doing the series of smaller PWC's rather than a big one is to slowly acclimate the fish back to 'normal' water. Add a 1/4 pinch of salt after each PWC to keep the slight salinity level up. After doing 3-4 25% PWC's, test your nitrite levels again. Then continue to do 25% PWC's every few hours until your nitrite levels are back down to less than 1.0ppm. Your nitrate levels will also come down as you do the PWC's. Even though your initial post was about nitrates, your nitrate levels, while high, are not nearly as dangerous as ammonia or nitrite levels over 1.0ppm. Your nitrite was 5-10 which is WAY HIGH. Your ammonia levels probably reached the same levels which is why your fish were dying. I also notice that you did not post ammonia test results so I'm guessing you have the 5-in-1 dip sticks that do not include the ammonia test. I would suggest getting a better master test kit (a budget priced one that is pretty good is the API Freshwater Master Test Kit in the $15.00 price range online and PetsMart will match their online prices if you bring the printed page with you to the store). The dip-sticks are OK for a quick glance but they have been known to give inconsistent (aka wrong) test results. The dip sticks also cost a lot more in the long term compared to any of the master test kits that have test tubes and reagents... including the more expensive master test kits like the AquaTru kit by Kordon which \\Steve// recommends highly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrate levels yeah that's the tank, and i have one fish left from 6 so i lost 5 fish really quickly about 4 weeks into the new tank last test ph was about 8 nitrate was between 160-200 and nitrite between 5-10 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > 2nd reply... > > I just saw the picture that you uploaded for your tank. Is this the same > tank you were asking about in your initial post? I peeked at all of your > pics in your photo album, > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186, <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186,> and I > see in the earlier pics that you had 4-5 fish but I only see one in the last > picture you just uploaded. Did you lose these fish or return them? Anyhow, > I'll wait for your answers to the questions in my previous reply. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrate levels > > i'm having trouble cycling this tank, anybody know what is the best > stablizer to use? > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 > 12:08:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:27:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:57:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels

Also, while at my A to Z of fish keeping page, read over my long article on doing proper Filter Maintenance And Cleaning so you do not make the mistakes mentioned in that article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrate levels yeah that's the tank, and i have one fish left from 6 so i lost 5 fish really quickly about 4 weeks into the new tank last test ph was about 8 nitrate was between 160-200 and nitrite between 5-10 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > 2nd reply... > > I just saw the picture that you uploaded for your tank. Is this the same > tank you were asking about in your initial post? I peeked at all of your > pics in your photo album, > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186, <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186,> and I > see in the earlier pics that you had 4-5 fish but I only see one in the last > picture you just uploaded. Did you lose these fish or return them? Anyhow, > I'll wait for your answers to the questions in my previous reply. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrate levels > > i'm having trouble cycling this tank, anybody know what is the best > stablizer to use? > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 > 12:08:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:27:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:58:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30018	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

Here's your Chris Owens research... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_(burlesque_performer) (I bet you didn't know you were named after a famous burlesque performer... well, famous down here in New Orleans. lol) http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html But she's also a very good citizen down here.... http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/ and many other good things for our city. Now back to your tank(s) and pond. With only a 125G, I suspect your friend gave you the tank and fish, as the bioload of the two BIG plecos and the cichlids were too much for the tank so maintenance was becoming a major issue. Do you have room for a bigger tank.. maybe twice that size.. or trade in one of the plecos at your LFS? I'm only saying this before you put too much effort into the 125G as I do not feel it will support the current bioload plus your other planned fish. Be warned that some of the smaller cichlids are more ferocious than the larger ones so it may be why the smaller ones you still have are still there. Post pics and I'm sure one of the members will be able to identify them. They'll definitely love your plans for adding shrimp. They love shrimp. You were talking about adding shrimp as snacks for them... right? LOL Now your pond... I know about your 3' legal issues but double/triple check that 3' deep will be deep enough for over-wintering your pond. From what I've read, if you put a picket fence around a pond over 3' deep, that will get you around the legal issue. I'm not sure how cold/freezing it gets up there in Virginia but do a lot more studying on the over-wintering process. Many pond owners in very cold climates actually bring their fish indoors for the winter and keep them in large holding tanks in their garages. They can over-winter outside but it should be done in a proper manner with preparing the pond and fish for the over-wintering process. I'm down in New Orleans so we don't have much of a winter so I've never had to worry about it much. Well.. we did have a hard freeze of 3 days straight back in 1989 if that counts (LOL), other than that, we rarely get freezing temps for more than a few hours at a time. Hopefully, whomever is designing/building your pond(s) knows about REAL pond-keeping so you won't be stuck with something that has problems. I've seen many horror stories in other forums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my future to figure out who that is... Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, I've never had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) and although she gave me all the foods for them (there's three different types all saying cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of doing right by them. I've always had plecos just never any this size and one that we've already named "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- style Chinese dragon is a really unique antique gold color, the other is the common leopard. I'll post pictures if anyone could give me a hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly appreciate it. The plecos have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets on clips so I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I have it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other two are much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm not going to be able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp I was originally considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I just need another tank - LOL And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm afraid I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where they are at all times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great Danes, my way of thinking is perhaps now I need two... :D Chris from Virginia The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not including the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with a "stream" of sorts going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going over the narrow part. The deepest will only be 3' though due to state regulations. Something about at that point it becomes a pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to the side which I am learning about in the pond class I am taking which sounds like a fantastic idea. The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at least a 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't get as large as the regular (yeah regular, they have better pedigree's than I do). Right now the tank they are in has an undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and gets a 1/3 water change every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a fairly high protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine shrimp once a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the first platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to come home when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take classes at. The only goldfish that really caught my eye was a shubunkin (sp?) that was swishing around more than a Southern Belle that I found amusing but I didn't take it home. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter entertainment > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since I'm down > there. Welcome to the group. > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure they'll > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to plant and > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially during > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely love your > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't fed > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet should > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and give us > the links. > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" and not > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular goldfish > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and BIG dogs > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", usually in > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least 300G and > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also preferred. > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move them out of > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) while they > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not start to > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are probably > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the most and > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish (80-100+ > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to them > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in the first > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in large water > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth rate > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > Hello, > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the past > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the tanks. I > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still trying to > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses last > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a Christmas > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots of other > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- complete was > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 years > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other than > incrediably cranky - lol) > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a medium koi > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still gathering > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I do this > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black Malaysian) > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are already trained > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they arch > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive Samoyed > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > Looking forward to learning more, > > Chris > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 > 11:18:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:58:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 1:27:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30019	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels

any specific kind of salt? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Also, while at my A to Z of fish keeping page, read over my long article on > doing proper Filter Maintenance And Cleaning so you do not make the mistakes > mentioned in that article. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrate levels > > yeah that's the tank, and i have one fish left from 6 so i lost 5 fish > really quickly about 4 weeks into the new tank last test ph was about 8 > nitrate was between 160-200 and nitrite between 5-10 > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > 2nd reply... > > > > I just saw the picture that you uploaded for your tank. Is this > the same > > tank you were asking about in your initial post? I peeked at all > of your > > pics in your photo album, > > > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186, > <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186 ,> > and I > > see in the earlier pics that you had 4-5 fish but I only see one > in the last > > picture you just uploaded. Did you lose these fish or return > them? Anyhow, > > I'll wait for your answers to the questions in my previous reply. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:29 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrate levels > > > > i'm having trouble cycling this tank, anybody know what is the best > > stablizer to use? > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 > > 12:08:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:27:52 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:58:44 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30020	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

I've used eco-complete before and it's ok but ADA is MUCH better. I get awesome growth with it. Only one problem that I see.....Cichlids are notorius for pulling apart planted tanks. Good luck though! Kate --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Chris Owens <chris_o_p@...> wrote: From: Chris Owens <chris_o_p@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 5:37 AM Hello, My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the past 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the tanks. I was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still trying to determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses last night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a Christmas Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots of other plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco-complete was really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 years old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other than incrediably cranky - lol) I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a medium koi pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still gathering the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I do this properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black Malaysian) living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are already trained to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they arch themselves under your finger like they were cats. We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive Samoyed rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. Looking forward to learning more, Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30021	From: Kate Conrow	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

Well said as always Lenny. Much better so than my reply. Kate --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 10:18 AM Hi Chris, First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter entertainment fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since I'm down there. Welcome to the group. Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure they'll agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own aquascaping. .. meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to plant and the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially during the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely love your planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't fed enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. http://www.plecofan atics.com/ forum/showthread .php?t=11018 You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet should be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and give us the links. As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" and not just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular goldfish aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and BIG dogs too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", usually in their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least 300G and preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also preferred. I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move them out of that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) while they are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not start to suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are probably still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the most and fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish (80-100+ years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to them initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in the first couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in large water volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth rate slows down over the rest of their long lives. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction Hello, My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the past 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the tanks. I was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still trying to determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses last night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a Christmas Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots of other plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco-complete was really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 years old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other than incrediably cranky - lol) I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a medium koi pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still gathering the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I do this properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black Malaysian) living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are already trained to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they arch themselves under your finger like they were cats. We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive Samoyed rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. Looking forward to learning more, Chris _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 11:18:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30022	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels

Whew... I'm glad you asked! Yes, you definitely want to only use salt that is made up of Sodium Chloride (NaCl). I'm kidding... all salt, at least the kind that is commonly available to consumers and that we generally refer to as "salt" is NaCl. The "Aquarium Salt" products at the pet store is the exact same thing as the salt that we eat. Now, there is a Marine Salt that is a salt product that also includes the trace elements and minerals needed in Marine tanks.. saltwater tanks... and some people use it for certain situations for FW fish also. Sometimes, you'll see forum posts of people worrying about anti-caking agents, iodized salt, etc., but when I buy the 1 pound round boxes of salt at the store, all it contains is salt or iodized salt and the iodide level is so minute that it's not an issue... especially when we're talking about a pinch of salt. Now, if you were talking about a higher dosage of salt, I wouldn't use Iodized salt (unless that is all I had handy) but for the purpose here, it's fine. Here's a couple of long articles about salt that are good to keep in your favorites folder. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Kebus_Salt_Treatments.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrate levels any specific kind of salt? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Also, while at my A to Z of fish keeping page, read over my long article on > doing proper Filter Maintenance And Cleaning so you do not make the mistakes > mentioned in that article. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrate levels > > yeah that's the tank, and i have one fish left from 6 so i lost 5 fish > really quickly about 4 weeks into the new tank last test ph was about 8 > nitrate was between 160-200 and nitrite between 5-10 > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > 2nd reply... > > > > I just saw the picture that you uploaded for your tank. Is this > the same > > tank you were asking about in your initial post? I peeked at all > of your > > pics in your photo album, > > > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186, <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186,> > <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186> > ,> > and I > > see in the earlier pics that you had 4-5 fish but I only see one > in the last > > picture you just uploaded. Did you lose these fish or return > them? Anyhow, > > I'll wait for your answers to the questions in my previous reply. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:29 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrate levels > > > > i'm having trouble cycling this tank, anybody know what is the best > > stablizer to use? > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 > > 12:08:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 > 12:27:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 > 12:58:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 1:32:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 1:45:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30023	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrate levels

it was the iodide i was worried about --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Whew... I'm glad you asked! Yes, you definitely want to only use salt that > is made up of Sodium Chloride (NaCl). > > I'm kidding... all salt, at least the kind that is commonly available to > consumers and that we generally refer to as "salt" is NaCl. The "Aquarium > Salt" products at the pet store is the exact same thing as the salt that we > eat. Now, there is a Marine Salt that is a salt product that also includes > the trace elements and minerals needed in Marine tanks.. saltwater tanks... > and some people use it for certain situations for FW fish also. > > Sometimes, you'll see forum posts of people worrying about anti- caking > agents, iodized salt, etc., but when I buy the 1 pound round boxes of salt > at the store, all it contains is salt or iodized salt and the iodide level > is so minute that it's not an issue... especially when we're talking about a > pinch of salt. Now, if you were talking about a higher dosage of salt, I > wouldn't use Iodized salt (unless that is all I had handy) but for the > purpose here, it's fine. > > Here's a couple of long articles about salt that are good to keep in your > favorites folder. > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Kebus_Salt_Treatments.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrate levels > > any specific kind of salt? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Also, while at my A to Z of fish keeping page, read over my long > article on > > doing proper Filter Maintenance And Cleaning so you do not make > the mistakes > > mentioned in that article. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:18 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrate levels > > > > yeah that's the tank, and i have one fish left from 6 so i lost 5 > fish > > really quickly about 4 weeks into the new tank last test ph was > about 8 > > nitrate was between 160-200 and nitrite between 5-10 > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > 2nd reply... > > > > > > I just saw the picture that you uploaded for your tank. Is this > > the same > > > tank you were asking about in your initial post? I peeked at all > > of your > > > pics in your photo album, > > > > > > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186, > <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186 ,> > > > <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186 > <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186 > <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d186 > > > ,> > > and I > > > see in the earlier pics that you had 4-5 fish but I only see one > > in the last > > > picture you just uploaded. Did you lose these fish or return > > them? Anyhow, > > > I'll wait for your answers to the questions in my previous reply. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:29 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrate levels > > > > > > i'm having trouble cycling this tank, anybody know what is the > best > > > stablizer to use? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 > > > 12:08:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 > > 12:27:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 > > 12:58:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 1:32:48 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 1:45:41 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30024	From: freefallfroggie	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Suzi's Pleco and Betta (was: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog)

Hi, I have a 10 gal. tank with a cory, a clown pleco (they stay small, he's only maybe 2 or 2 1/2 inches), I've had them a few years, and I just got a male betta a month ago, and they seem to be doing fine. I also have snails, and they are pretty good at cleaning, but they do multiply! The betta likes the bottom feeder food much better than his own food, and he even hangs out with the catfish, I have real and silk plants, and a couple of hiding places. The albino clawed frogs get to about 4 or 5 inches long, I don't know if they'd try to go after the betrta's fins or not. I recently got a pair of dwarf clawed frogs (I've had them in the past) in a 2 gal hexagon by themselves, I wouldn't trust them with the betta. Good luck, Sandi :-) >AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Suzi" <suziknits2@...> wrote: > > Thanks so much Lenny.. You have been a great help! > I will look for some Otocinclus affinis. > When I get some, I will give my friend the Pleco. He has > a 75 gal tank with no Pleco in it. > > ----- > Have a great day! > > Suzi > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:26 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Suzi's Pleco and Betta (was: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog) > > > Suzi, > > I changed the subject line so we don't hijack the previous thread. > > There's nothing wrong with shopping at PetsMart or Walmart or any other BIG > BOX retailer. I try to support my LFS but if their prices are too far out > of line or they do not have what I want, then I am thankful for the BIG BOX > pet stores. I do prefer to get my fish at my LFS. I have a PetsMart a > block from me and use them frequently for supplies and hardware. Here's a > tip... always go to their website first and print out the pages of the items > you are interested in as the stores will match their internet prices if you > bring the page with the price. I save 30-50% this way. > > As far as the "brown" pleco, it seems 90% of them could be described that > way. Since you aren't sure and you got him at PetsMart, we can assume he's > a common pleco (called that because they are the most "common" in hobby). > There are two species that are usually the most "common" and they both get > BIG... with 18" to 24" as likely adult sizes so you can see why a 20G isn't > large enough. 75G, 6' long tank, is the minimum recommended tank size for > even a single fish and that is bare minimum. 150G would be better. > > Try to find a LFS (Local Fish Store) in your area and talk to the manager > about trading in your pleco for a more suitable species like a Clown Pleco. > They seem to be more readily available lately and I got mine for a couple of > dollars several months ago. The Bristle Nosed plecos were around $7.00 and > BN's get bigger than Clown's so you should stick with the Clown. > Technically, your 20G is probably on the small end of tanks recommended for > a Clown pleco but as long as you do your weekly PWC's and do not plan on > other fish, you should be OK. > > There are other algae eating catfish that are much smaller, like the > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html and if your LFS has > them, you might want to consider a shoal (5-6) of them instead of the clown > pleco as they would be a much smaller bioload and then you could add other > fish if you wanted. Go to my blog and read over the article "Hailey's 10G > tank stocking suggestions" (I think that's the title.. lol) > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank- stocking-list.h > tml and read the section on Bettas to get more ideas of other fish that > would be suitable for your 20G. Actually, that section was snipped to form > the basis of this thread so it's way down below. > > As always, quarantine any new fish before adding them to your main tank so > you can acclimate them to your water parameters and watch them for any > possible pathogens. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Suzi > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog > > I'm not sure.. it's brown.. got him (don't shoot me) at Petsmart. It was > about 1 1/2" then. > He cleans up the algae.. I give him "Algae Grazers". > I don't know what else to put in the tank to take care algae that the Betta > would get along with that won't overload the tank and get big. I do water > changes every week and vacuum the gravel every other week. > > ----- > Have a great day! > > Suzi > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:48 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog > > Hi Suzi, > > If the Pleco is a Common pleco, they get much too big (15"++) for a 20G. > They need at least 75G of water volume each. Even the dwarf species like the > Clown pleco, Bushy Nosed pleco, etc. grow to 5"+ but they could make it in a > 20G, especially a 20G Long tank, as long as frequent PWC's are done. > Even though the dwarf species only reach 5"+, they are wide bodied fish so > they have the bioload of a much larger fish. > > Do you know what kind of pleco that you have? > > If you do have a common, some LFS will set up a program where you can trade > them in, every six months to a year, for a new juvi and then they can sell > the larger pleco to people with big tanks and big fish. That's what I did > with the one I adopted from a 10G, who was getting too big for my 65G after > only 18 months. I hated to see him go since he kept my tank spotless but now > he's living in a nice big 150G and I have a juvi clown pleco now. > > Make sure you feed him well also. If you want some links to good feeding > articles, let me know. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Suzi > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog > > I have a crown tail Betta in a 20 gal tank with a Plecostomus and they get > along fine. No nipped fins on Plecostomus either. > > ----- > Have a great day! > > Suzi > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Edgar Javison > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:58 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog > > From GoldLenny > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank- stocking-list.h > tml , there is this statement: > > Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it > best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good > tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras > and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be > appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only > one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat them. > I'd like to ask Lenny if this also applies to the albino clawed frog? > Can I mix it with a Betta? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:26:49 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Suzi's Pleco and Betta (was: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog)

Sandi, I'm not sure there are "dwarf clawed frogs"... at least not that I've ever read or seen. Of course, new species are identified all the time (read further). If they are truly aquatic frogs that you got at a local store, then they are likely ACF's, African clawed frogs, which are NOT a dwarf variety. If you can get the scientific name for your frogs from the seller, that truly show they are dwarf clawed frogs, then I will have learned something new today... which is always my goal (as you read further, you'll see that I may have! LOL). If you do a Google Image search, you'll likely find out that... if your frogs are aquatic and have front claws that are not webbed, they are likely ACF's, not ADF's. Beware of misinformation from some websites like this one... http://www.pipidae.net/adcf_tank.php which refers to a "African Dwarf Clawed Frogs" but then uses the latin name "Hymenochirus boettgeri" which is the latin name for ADF's, African Dwarf Frogs (not the clawed variety). Here is a quote from that page... "For African Dwarf Clawed Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)..." which clearly shows they are starting out with bad information. Even the FAQ page of that site doesn't have info on how to tell the difference between ACF's, ADF's or their so-called ADCF's http://www.pipidae.net/faq_species.php They answered "under construction" for that FAQ. I think they gave up when they realized they couldn't give an answer. Here is another bad care sheet but at least this one doesn't even have a latin name... http://www.repticzone.com/caresheets/874.html In digging further into the Pipidae website, I did find this page http://www.pipidae.net/species_kept_adcf_pseudhymenochirusmerlini1.php which this website author also calls a ADCF but it's a completely different species from the ones commonly available in aquaria. The website author calls them "Pseudhymenochirus merlini "Guinea Bissau 2004/2005" Merlin's African Dwarf Clawed Frog" so maybe it is a rather new species. If the author had accurate info on the rest of their website, I'd be more inclined to trust this info but right now, I'm still undecided. A Google search for "african dwarf clawed frog" came up with ONLY 540 hits.. pretty dismal number and usually means something is wrong with the search or the subject matter doesn't really exist. "african clawed frog" garners 173,000 hits and "african dwarf frog" garners 25,600 hits. A Google search of "Pseudhymenochirus merlini" yielded only 546 hits. Here is one way to tell what you have... From http://allaboutfrogs.org/info/species/clawedordwarf.html "...Also, the front hands of the dwarf frog (ADF) have webbing between the fingers...while the front hands of the clawed frog are more pointy-looking (like claws, no webbing)..." and "... (ADF's) will have teeny black claw-like things on their hind feet, especially notable when full grown,...." I did find another page on the Pipidae website that tells how to tell if you have a Merlin's Frog. http://www.pipidae.net/species_determining_adcf.php As I said earlier, I'm still not 100% sure about the Pipidae website but it looks like the author is giving very good efforts in describing the Merlin's ADCF, except for the initial serious flaw by using the latin name for the ADF. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of freefallfroggie Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Suzi's Pleco and Betta (was: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog) Hi, I have a 10 gal. tank with a cory, a clown pleco (they stay small, he's only maybe 2 or 2 1/2 inches), I've had them a few years, and I just got a male betta a month ago, and they seem to be doing fine. I also have snails, and they are pretty good at cleaning, but they do multiply! The betta likes the bottom feeder food much better than his own food, and he even hangs out with the catfish, I have real and silk plants, and a couple of hiding places. The albino clawed frogs get to about 4 or 5 inches long, I don't know if they'd try to go after the betrta's fins or not. I recently got a pair of dwarf clawed frogs (I've had them in the past) in a 2 gal hexagon by themselves, I wouldn't trust them with the betta. Good luck, Sandi :-) >AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Suzi" <suziknits2@...> wrote: > > Thanks so much Lenny.. You have been a great help! > I will look for some Otocinclus affinis. > When I get some, I will give my friend the Pleco. He has a 75 gal tank > with no Pleco in it. > > ----- > Have a great day! > > Suzi > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:26 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Suzi's Pleco and Betta (was: A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog) > > > Suzi, > > I changed the subject line so we don't hijack the previous thread. > > There's nothing wrong with shopping at PetsMart or Walmart or any other BIG > BOX retailer. I try to support my LFS but if their prices are too far out > of line or they do not have what I want, then I am thankful for the BIG BOX > pet stores. I do prefer to get my fish at my LFS. I have a PetsMart a > block from me and use them frequently for supplies and hardware. Here's a > tip... always go to their website first and print out the pages of the items > you are interested in as the stores will match their internet prices if you > bring the page with the price. I save 30-50% this way. > > As far as the "brown" pleco, it seems 90% of them could be described that > way. Since you aren't sure and you got him at PetsMart, we can assume he's > a common pleco (called that because they are the most "common" in hobby). > There are two species that are usually the most "common" and they both get > BIG... with 18" to 24" as likely adult sizes so you can see why a 20G isn't > large enough. 75G, 6' long tank, is the minimum recommended tank size for > even a single fish and that is bare minimum. 150G would be better. > > Try to find a LFS (Local Fish Store) in your area and talk to the manager > about trading in your pleco for a more suitable species like a Clown Pleco. > They seem to be more readily available lately and I got mine for a couple of > dollars several months ago. The Bristle Nosed plecos were around $7.00 and > BN's get bigger than Clown's so you should stick with the Clown. > Technically, your 20G is probably on the small end of tanks recommended for > a Clown pleco but as long as you do your weekly PWC's and do not plan on > other fish, you should be OK. > > There are other algae eating catfish that are much smaller, like the > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html> and if your LFS has > them, you might want to consider a shoal (5-6) of them instead of the clown > pleco as they would be a much smaller bioload and then you could add other > fish if you wanted. Go to my blog and read over the article "Hailey's 10G > tank stocking suggestions" (I think that's the title.. lol) > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank- > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-> stocking-list.h > tml and read the section on Bettas to get more ideas of other fish that > would be suitable for your 20G. Actually, that section was snipped to form > the basis of this thread so it's way down below. > > As always, quarantine any new fish before adding them to your main tank so > you can acclimate them to your water parameters and watch them for any > possible pathogens. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Suzi > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog > > I'm not sure.. it's brown.. got him (don't shoot me) at Petsmart. It was > about 1 1/2" then. > He cleans up the algae.. I give him "Algae Grazers". > I don't know what else to put in the tank to take care algae that the Betta > would get along with that won't overload the tank and get big. I do water > changes every week and vacuum the gravel every other week. > > ----- > Have a great day! > > Suzi > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:48 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog > > Hi Suzi, > > If the Pleco is a Common pleco, they get much too big (15"++) for a 20G. > They need at least 75G of water volume each. Even the dwarf species like the > Clown pleco, Bushy Nosed pleco, etc. grow to 5"+ but they could make it in a > 20G, especially a 20G Long tank, as long as frequent PWC's are done. > Even though the dwarf species only reach 5"+, they are wide bodied fish so > they have the bioload of a much larger fish. > > Do you know what kind of pleco that you have? > > If you do have a common, some LFS will set up a program where you can trade > them in, every six months to a year, for a new juvi and then they can sell > the larger pleco to people with big tanks and big fish. That's what I did > with the one I adopted from a 10G, who was getting too big for my 65G after > only 18 months. I hated to see him go since he kept my tank spotless but now > he's living in a nice big 150G and I have a juvi clown pleco now. > > Make sure you feed him well also. If you want some links to good feeding > articles, let me know. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Suzi > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog > > I have a crown tail Betta in a 20 gal tank with a Plecostomus and they get > along fine. No nipped fins on Plecostomus either. > > ----- > Have a great day! > > Suzi > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Edgar Javison > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 11:58 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] A Betta and An Albino Clawed Frog > > From GoldLenny > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank- > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-> stocking-list.h > tml , there is this statement: > > Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it > best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good > tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras > and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be > appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only > one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat them. > I'd like to ask Lenny if this also applies to the albino clawed frog? > Can I mix it with a Betta? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 > 12:26:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 3:04:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 4:04:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30026	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

VERRRYYYY Interesting! Scary part is I'm actually taking lessons of that type and had absolutely NO CLUE!!! (smile) Posted pics under "Linden Ladies", as soon as they are approved they will show up, also tossed up a few pics of the canine heathens as they are my greatest fish keepers if one makes a "jump for it" one of these two will bark ballistically until I come check. Pagoda the gold pleco likes to flare up its fins at the baby Dane and watch it back up in a hurry, I swear you can almost see the fish laugh! I was given the tank as she is leaving her husband and had four 125 gallon tanks and many, many smaller ones. We took the 125g freshwater and two smaller tanks. Her other tanks were all saltwater and I'm really not ready to jump into that yet. I'm wondering if I'm in over my head with these huge cichlids. In VA the usual pond is 18" which I don't feel is nearly deep enough which is why I am going a bit deeper, almost double. The frost line is at 6" and they "claim" that as long as you keep an area of the water ice free the fish are fine. Hmmmm not sure I'm buying it but the guys at the Nat'l Aquarium back up these claims so maybe my 3' will be just fine. :D The fish need somewhere deep enough to escape the raccoons. Any deeper than 3' and I need a 6' fence around it and I'm not putting a fence around the property until I have the landscaping in the back done (have almost an acre) so probably next fall after MY pool is installed and other projects. The group that I am taking the classes from has been doing this for 20+ years and I've seen a lot of their work and talked to previous customers. Chris in Virginia --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Here's your Chris Owens research... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_(burlesque_performer) > (I bet you didn't know you were named after a famous burlesque performer... > well, famous down here in New Orleans. lol) > > http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html > > But she's also a very good citizen down here.... > > http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/ and many other good things for our > city. > > Now back to your tank(s) and pond. > > With only a 125G, I suspect your friend gave you the tank and fish, as the > bioload of the two BIG plecos and the cichlids were too much for the tank so > maintenance was becoming a major issue. Do you have room for a bigger > tank.. maybe twice that size.. or trade in one of the plecos at your LFS? > I'm only saying this before you put too much effort into the 125G as I do > not feel it will support the current bioload plus your other planned fish. > > Be warned that some of the smaller cichlids are more ferocious than the > larger ones so it may be why the smaller ones you still have are still > there. Post pics and I'm sure one of the members will be able to identify > them. > > They'll definitely love your plans for adding shrimp. They love shrimp. > You were talking about adding shrimp as snacks for them... right? LOL > > Now your pond... > > I know about your 3' legal issues but double/triple check that 3' deep will > be deep enough for over-wintering your pond. From what I've read, if you > put a picket fence around a pond over 3' deep, that will get you around the > legal issue. > > I'm not sure how cold/freezing it gets up there in Virginia but do a lot > more studying on the over-wintering process. Many pond owners in very cold > climates actually bring their fish indoors for the winter and keep them in > large holding tanks in their garages. They can over-winter outside but it > should be done in a proper manner with preparing the pond and fish for the > over-wintering process. I'm down in New Orleans so we don't have much of a > winter so I've never had to worry about it much. Well.. we did have a hard > freeze of 3 days straight back in 1989 if that counts (LOL), other than > that, we rarely get freezing temps for more than a few hours at a time. > > Hopefully, whomever is designing/building your pond(s) knows about REAL > pond-keeping so you won't be stuck with something that has problems. I've > seen many horror stories in other forums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my future > to figure out who that is... > > Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, I've never > had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) and although she > gave me all the foods for them (there's three different types all saying > cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of doing right by them. I've always > had plecos just never any this size and one that we've already named > "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- style Chinese dragon is a really unique > antique gold color, the other is the common leopard. I'll post pictures if > anyone could give me a hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly appreciate > it. The plecos have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets on > clips so I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I > have it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still > pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the > description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other two are > much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm not going to be > able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp I was originally > considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I just need another tank - > LOL > > And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm afraid > I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where they are at all > times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great Danes, my way of thinking is > perhaps now I need two... :D > > Chris from Virginia > > The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not including > the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with a "stream" of sorts > going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going over the narrow part. The > deepest will only be 3' though due to state regulations. Something about at > that point it becomes a pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to the > side which I am learning about in the pond class I am taking which sounds > like a fantastic idea. > > The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at least a > 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't get as large as > the regular (yeah regular, they have better pedigree's than I do). Right now > the tank they are in has an undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and gets a > 1/3 water change every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a > fairly high protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine shrimp > once a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the first > platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to come home > when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take classes at. The only > goldfish that really caught my eye was a shubunkin (sp?) that was swishing > around more than a Southern Belle that I found amusing but I didn't take it > home. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter > entertainment > > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since > I'm down > > there. Welcome to the group. > > > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure > they'll > > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to > plant and > > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially > during > > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely > love your > > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't > fed > > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > > > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet > should > > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and > give us > > the links. > > > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" > and not > > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular > goldfish > > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and > BIG dogs > > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", > usually in > > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least > 300G and > > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also > preferred. > > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move > them out of > > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) > while they > > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not > start to > > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are > probably > > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the > most and > > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish > (80-100+ > > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to > them > > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in > the first > > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in > large water > > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth > rate > > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Chris Owens > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > > > Hello, > > > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the > past > > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the > tanks. I > > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still > trying to > > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses > last > > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a > Christmas > > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots > of other > > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- > complete was > > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that > comes with a > > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either > way the > > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 > years > > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other > than > > incrediably cranky - lol) > > > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a > medium koi > > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still > gathering > > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I > do this > > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black > Malaysian) > > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are > already trained > > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they > arch > > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive > Samoyed > > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > > > Looking forward to learning more, > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 > > 11:18:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 12:58:52 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 1:27:46 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30027	From: Chris	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: 4 Angels in a 20 long

Could 4 angels live in a 20 gallon long? What about a 15 long?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30028	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long

My 2 angels are in a 55. They get very big and fast at that. I would say that no way is a 20 gallon large enough for even 1 angel...let alone 4. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Chris <crjm28@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Could 4 angels live in a 20 gallon long? What about a 15 long? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30029	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

Are you taking lessons to be a burlesque performer? LOL You didn't indicate but since my first paragraph was about New Orleans' Chris Owens, I'm guessing you were replying to those links. LOL I took a look at your pictures http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d3a0 and I agree with your comments about needing to learn how to take better pics... at least when it comes to moving fish. LOL If you can get a pic of the brown pleco with it's dorsal fin up, that would be helpful to someone trying ID your fish. Their dorsal fins and number of rays are common identifiers. I definitely DO NOT think it's a Leopard Pleco (G. gibbiceps or P. leopardus) since it doesn't have the tell-tale "spots" which is why G. gibbiceps and P. leopardus are sometimes called a Leopard Pleco. You may also want to forget everything you've ever heard about common names for your cichlids and plecos. It is best to use the latin/scientific names (and/or L-numbers for plecos) when talking about anything but the most common of those fish. Normally, I'd refer you to a profile on PlanetCatfish.com but their site seems to be having issues at the moment but here are a couple of other profiles on the Leopard Pleco so you can see that yours doesn't look very much like them. http://fishbase.fishinfo.cn/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=12219 and the associated photos to that profile http://fishbase.fishinfo.cn/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.php?ID=12219 and here's another good site besides PlanetCatfish http://www.scotcat.com/loricariidae/pseudacanthicus_leopardus.htm You can see your's is definitely NOT a Leopard Pleco and you'll also see where the above two profiles are calling the fish Leopard Pleco's when they are completely different species. This is why common names are not used much in the catfish and cichlid forum world. I'm leaning towards yours being a Liposarcus pardalis or multiradius http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile34.html and yours really looks like the picture in of all places.. wikipedia.. lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterygoplichthys_pardalis except for the dorsal fin which is missing in your picture. I don't have a clue about what Pagoda is. I would suggest going to http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49 or http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=13 and posting your pics there if someone here doesn't ID it. As far as your pond, I can promise you that 18" is no where near deep enough for Koi. Even 36" is not deep enough in my opinion but it's twice as good as 18". I'm not sure the "guys at the Nat'l Aquarium" know very much about pond keeping or even fish keeping in general when it comes to home aquariums. There's a HUGE difference in keeping fish in tanks with a limited budget compared to a huge public tax-payer funded aquarium that can spend money like it grows on trees. Further, I'll put my record post-Katrina against the Aquarium Of America (New Orleans public aquarium) where they lost all of their fish and I lost none of mine. LOL Now, who's better? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction VERRRYYYY Interesting! Scary part is I'm actually taking lessons of that type and had absolutely NO CLUE!!! (smile) Posted pics under "Linden Ladies", as soon as they are approved they will show up, also tossed up a few pics of the canine heathens as they are my greatest fish keepers if one makes a "jump for it" one of these two will bark ballistically until I come check. Pagoda the gold pleco likes to flare up its fins at the baby Dane and watch it back up in a hurry, I swear you can almost see the fish laugh! I was given the tank as she is leaving her husband and had four 125 gallon tanks and many, many smaller ones. We took the 125g freshwater and two smaller tanks. Her other tanks were all saltwater and I'm really not ready to jump into that yet. I'm wondering if I'm in over my head with these huge cichlids. In VA the usual pond is 18" which I don't feel is nearly deep enough which is why I am going a bit deeper, almost double. The frost line is at 6" and they "claim" that as long as you keep an area of the water ice free the fish are fine. Hmmmm not sure I'm buying it but the guys at the Nat'l Aquarium back up these claims so maybe my 3' will be just fine. :D The fish need somewhere deep enough to escape the raccoons. Any deeper than 3' and I need a 6' fence around it and I'm not putting a fence around the property until I have the landscaping in the back done (have almost an acre) so probably next fall after MY pool is installed and other projects. The group that I am taking the classes from has been doing this for 20+ years and I've seen a lot of their work and talked to previous customers. Chris in Virginia --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Here's your Chris Owens research... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_ > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_> (burlesque_performer) (I > bet you didn't know you were named after a famous burlesque performer... > well, famous down here in New Orleans. lol) > > http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html > <http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html> > > But she's also a very good citizen down here.... > > http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/ > <http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/> and many other good things for our > city. > > Now back to your tank(s) and pond. > > With only a 125G, I suspect your friend gave you the tank and fish, as the > bioload of the two BIG plecos and the cichlids were too much for the tank so > maintenance was becoming a major issue. Do you have room for a bigger > tank.. maybe twice that size.. or trade in one of the plecos at your LFS? > I'm only saying this before you put too much effort into the 125G as I do > not feel it will support the current bioload plus your other planned fish. > > Be warned that some of the smaller cichlids are more ferocious than the > larger ones so it may be why the smaller ones you still have are still > there. Post pics and I'm sure one of the members will be able to identify > them. > > They'll definitely love your plans for adding shrimp. They love shrimp. > You were talking about adding shrimp as snacks for them... right? LOL > > Now your pond... > > I know about your 3' legal issues but double/triple check that 3' deep will > be deep enough for over-wintering your pond. From what I've read, if you > put a picket fence around a pond over 3' deep, that will get you around the > legal issue. > > I'm not sure how cold/freezing it gets up there in Virginia but do a lot > more studying on the over-wintering process. Many pond owners in very cold > climates actually bring their fish indoors for the winter and keep them in > large holding tanks in their garages. They can over-winter outside but it > should be done in a proper manner with preparing the pond and fish for the > over-wintering process. I'm down in New Orleans so we don't have much of a > winter so I've never had to worry about it much. Well.. we did have a hard > freeze of 3 days straight back in 1989 if that counts (LOL), other than > that, we rarely get freezing temps for more than a few hours at a time. > > Hopefully, whomever is designing/building your pond(s) knows about REAL > pond-keeping so you won't be stuck with something that has problems. I've > seen many horror stories in other forums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my future > to figure out who that is... > > Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, I've never > had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) and although she > gave me all the foods for them (there's three different types all saying > cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of doing right by them. I've always > had plecos just never any this size and one that we've already named > "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- style Chinese dragon is a really unique > antique gold color, the other is the common leopard. I'll post pictures if > anyone could give me a hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly appreciate > it. The plecos have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets on > clips so I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I > have it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still > pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the > description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other two are > much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm not going to be > able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp I was originally > considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I just need another tank - > LOL > > And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm afraid > I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where they are at all > times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great Danes, my way of thinking is > perhaps now I need two... :D > > Chris from Virginia > > The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not including > the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with a "stream" of sorts > going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going over the narrow part. The > deepest will only be 3' though due to state regulations. Something about at > that point it becomes a pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to the > side which I am learning about in the pond class I am taking which sounds > like a fantastic idea. > > The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at least a > 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't get as large as > the regular (yeah regular, they have better pedigree's than I do). Right now > the tank they are in has an undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and gets a > 1/3 water change every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a > fairly high protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine shrimp > once a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the first > platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to come home > when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take classes at. The only > goldfish that really caught my eye was a shubunkin (sp?) that was swishing > around more than a Southern Belle that I found amusing but I didn't take it > home. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter > entertainment > > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since > I'm down > > there. Welcome to the group. > > > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure > they'll > > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to > plant and > > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially > during > > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely > love your > > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't > fed > > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > > > > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet > should > > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and > give us > > the links. > > > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" > and not > > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular > goldfish > > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and > BIG dogs > > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", > usually in > > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least > 300G and > > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also > preferred. > > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move > them out of > > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) > while they > > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not > start to > > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are > probably > > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the > most and > > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish > (80-100+ > > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to > them > > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in > the first > > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in > large water > > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth > rate > > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Chris Owens > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > > > Hello, > > > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the > past > > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the > tanks. I > > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still > trying to > > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses > last > > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a > Christmas > > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots > of other > > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- > complete was > > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that > comes with a > > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either > way the > > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 > years > > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other > than > > incrediably cranky - lol) > > > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a > medium koi > > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still > gathering > > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I > do this > > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black > Malaysian) > > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are > already trained > > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they > arch > > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive > Samoyed > > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > > > Looking forward to learning more, > > > > Chris _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 8:22:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long

Not for very "long"... pardon the pun! ;-) A single angelfish in a 29G tall tank would be OK but on the minimum tank size. 25-35G per angelfish is probably a good goal to aim for. I know they look like little bitty dimes or quarters at the store but they grow to 6" long and 9" tall. Here's a good profile. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Could 4 angels live in a 20 gallon long? What about a 15 long? ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 7:18:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 8:27:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30031	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

Considering that you are in Virginia, and if you are close enough to NOVA or in NOVA, you may want to check out these organizations for your koi pond endeavors (in no particular order). http://www.makc.com/ http://goldfish.nova.org/ http://www.znapotomac.org/ The second is actually a goldfish club (Ha, and I bet you thought goldfish were not joiners!). Also, for general aquatic interests, there is http://www.pvas.com You said earlier you were going to be taking pond building lessons. Are you going up to Lilypons for the lessons? If not, you really owe yourself a trip up there, it is a pretty neat place. It is about 6 miles off Exit 26 from I-270. There are also a couple of places off Rt. 15 in Thurmont, MD. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my future to figure out who that is... Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, I've never had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) and although she gave me all the foods for them (there's three different types all saying cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of doing right by them. I've always had plecos just never any this size and one that we've already named "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- style Chinese dragon is a really unique antique gold color, the other is the common leopard. I'll post pictures if anyone could give me a hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly appreciate it. The plecos have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets on clips so I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I have it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other two are much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm not going to be able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp I was originally considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I just need another tank - LOL And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm afraid I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where they are at all times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great Danes, my way of thinking is perhaps now I need two... :D Chris from Virginia The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not including the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with a "stream" of sorts going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going over the narrow part. The deepest will only be 3' though due to state regulations. Something about at that point it becomes a pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to the side which I am learning about in the pond class I am taking which sounds like a fantastic idea. The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at least a 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't get as large as the regular (yeah regular, they have better pedigree's than I do). Right now the tank they are in has an undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and gets a 1/3 water change every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a fairly high protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine shrimp once a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the first platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to come home when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take classes at. The only goldfish that really caught my eye was a shubunkin (sp?) that was swishing around more than a Southern Belle that I found amusing but I didn't take it home. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter entertainment > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since I'm down > there. Welcome to the group. > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure they'll > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to plant and > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially during > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely love your > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't fed > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet should > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and give us > the links. > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" and not > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular goldfish > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and BIG dogs > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", usually in > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least 300G and > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also preferred. > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move them out of > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) while they > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not start to > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are probably > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the most and > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish (80-100+ > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to them > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in the first > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in large water > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth rate > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > Hello, > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the past > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the tanks. I > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still trying to > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses last > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a Christmas > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots of other > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- complete was > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 years > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other than > incrediably cranky - lol) > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a medium koi > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still gathering > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I do this > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black Malaysian) > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are already trained > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they arch > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive Samoyed > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > Looking forward to learning more, > > Chris > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 11:18:48 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30032	From: Chris	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long

I didn't think so. A friend of mine bought them with out giving it any thought. So now I'm wonderring, what will happen to fish that are in a tank that is too small. A month ago I was asking someone at PetSmart and she said they will stop growing to fit the tank, but the organs wont. Is that right? - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ¤H3ATH3R¤ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > My 2 angels are in a 55. They get very big and fast at that. I would say that no way is a 20 gallon large enough for even 1 angel...let alone 4. > > Heather > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <crjm28@...> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long > > Could 4 angels live in a 20 gallon long? > > What about a 15 long? > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30033	From: Chris	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Getting ready to add the first fish

I'm thinking of going with Barbs as a main theme. By the time I'm done, I will have 6 - 10 tiger barbs. I'm thinking of adding adding a small school of those albino bottom feeders (catfish?). I was reading they like to play. In a 20 gallon, that leave room for how much extra fish, and what do you like as companions? On second thought, I think I'm over populating. A little help would be nice.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30034	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

Chris, Oh yeah, I was going to mention the depth thing also, but got carried away looking up MG V8"s cause I saw one today, and just mentioned it to my wife, so I was a bit distracted <g>. I'd not worry so much about the law as my home owner's policy. Any pond really requires a fence around it, no matter the depth. It is known as an "attractive nuisance". Even if it 1' deep at the deep end, and a neighbor's kid comes along, falls in, and gets hurt, or, worse, drowns, you will be held liable. The fence gives you some protection in this regard. The fence need not be right up upon the pond, but can be a fenced yard. There are some specifications you must meet, like how the gate latches and the minimum height it must be, but, it has been so long since I have had to deal with that, it is kind of fuzzy in my mind right now. Lenny is from the land of hurricanes and no snow, so he has no real concept of winter, except on some days he may have to wear long sleeves and long pants, cause, darn, 60 is COLD! Seriously, the average temperature in January down there is 51.3 degrees F. On the other hand, the average January temperature at Dulles Airport is 31.7 degrees F. Obviously, if you live in the Shenandoah's, you will experience colder weather, and further south in VA, you will experience warmer. But, for NOVA, 3' depth would probably be enough to winter some fish over in the pond, provided you prepare properly for it. However, because koi can become pretty valuable fish, many will over winter the fish in a garage or cellar, using one or a mix of several different methods, where the temperature will be warmer than outside. Your best information will come from one of the clubs I mentioned earlier. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction Here's your Chris Owens research... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_(burlesque_performer) (I bet you didn't know you were named after a famous burlesque performer... well, famous down here in New Orleans. lol) http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html But she's also a very good citizen down here.... http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/ and many other good things for our city. Now back to your tank(s) and pond. With only a 125G, I suspect your friend gave you the tank and fish, as the bioload of the two BIG plecos and the cichlids were too much for the tank so maintenance was becoming a major issue. Do you have room for a bigger tank.. maybe twice that size.. or trade in one of the plecos at your LFS? I'm only saying this before you put too much effort into the 125G as I do not feel it will support the current bioload plus your other planned fish. Be warned that some of the smaller cichlids are more ferocious than the larger ones so it may be why the smaller ones you still have are still there. Post pics and I'm sure one of the members will be able to identify them. They'll definitely love your plans for adding shrimp. They love shrimp. You were talking about adding shrimp as snacks for them... right? LOL Now your pond... I know about your 3' legal issues but double/triple check that 3' deep will be deep enough for over-wintering your pond. From what I've read, if you put a picket fence around a pond over 3' deep, that will get you around the legal issue. I'm not sure how cold/freezing it gets up there in Virginia but do a lot more studying on the over-wintering process. Many pond owners in very cold climates actually bring their fish indoors for the winter and keep them in large holding tanks in their garages. They can over-winter outside but it should be done in a proper manner with preparing the pond and fish for the over-wintering process. I'm down in New Orleans so we don't have much of a winter so I've never had to worry about it much. Well.. we did have a hard freeze of 3 days straight back in 1989 if that counts (LOL), other than that, we rarely get freezing temps for more than a few hours at a time. Hopefully, whomever is designing/building your pond(s) knows about REAL pond-keeping so you won't be stuck with something that has problems. I've seen many horror stories in other forums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my future to figure out who that is... Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, I've never had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) and although she gave me all the foods for them (there's three different types all saying cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of doing right by them. I've always had plecos just never any this size and one that we've already named "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- style Chinese dragon is a really unique antique gold color, the other is the common leopard. I'll post pictures if anyone could give me a hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly appreciate it. The plecos have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets on clips so I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I have it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other two are much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm not going to be able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp I was originally considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I just need another tank - LOL And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm afraid I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where they are at all times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great Danes, my way of thinking is perhaps now I need two... :D Chris from Virginia The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not including the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with a "stream" of sorts going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going over the narrow part. The deepest will only be 3' though due to state regulations. Something about at that point it becomes a pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to the side which I am learning about in the pond class I am taking which sounds like a fantastic idea. The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at least a 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't get as large as the regular (yeah regular, they have better pedigree's than I do). Right now the tank they are in has an undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and gets a 1/3 water change every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a fairly high protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine shrimp once a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the first platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to come home when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take classes at. The only goldfish that really caught my eye was a shubunkin (sp?) that was swishing around more than a Southern Belle that I found amusing but I didn't take it home. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter entertainment > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since I'm down > there. Welcome to the group. > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure they'll > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to plant and > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially during > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely love your > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't fed > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet should > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and give us > the links. > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" and not > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular goldfish > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and BIG dogs > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", usually in > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least 300G and > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also preferred. > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move them out of > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) while they > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not start to > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are probably > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the most and > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish (80-100+ > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to them > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in the first > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in large water > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth rate > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > Hello, > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the past > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the tanks. I > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still trying to > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses last > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a Christmas > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots of other > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- complete was > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 years > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other than > incrediably cranky - lol) > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a medium koi > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still gathering > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I do this > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black Malaysian) > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are already trained > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they arch > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive Samoyed > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > Looking forward to learning more, > > Chris > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long

I don't know where that "organs won't stop growing" thing came from but I see it every once in a while in forums. Yes, most of the time, fish in an undersized or overstocked tank will stunt themselves and stop growing due to the hormone levels in the tank. When they get stunted, it's kind of an attempt at surviving in an improper ecological situation... BUT... this also means the fish will start suffering from various stress related illnesses and eventually die an early death. I hate to be so blunt but that's generally what happens. Tell your friend to either return the angels, get a much larger tank or keep just one angel and get a 29G tall or 35G tank and then they could add a small school of fish to compliment the lone angelfish. Angelfish do best in groups of five or more or as singles unless two of them pair off in the group and then that pair will do well without other angels. Of course, the fish do not read the same things we do or act like they are supposed to act, so there are always exceptions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long I didn't think so. A friend of mine bought them with out giving it any thought. So now I'm wonderring, what will happen to fish that are in a tank that is too small. A month ago I was asking someone at PetSmart and she said they will stop growing to fit the tank, but the organs wont. Is that right? - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , ¤H3ATH3R¤ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > My 2 angels are in a 55. They get very big and fast at that. I would say that no way is a 20 gallon large enough for even 1 angel...let alone 4. > > Heather > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <crjm28@...> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long > > Could 4 angels live in a 20 gallon long? > > What about a 15 long? > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 9:25:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30036	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long

Lenny and others can help you more with this one. I know it stunts their growth which isnt healthy for them and angels are actually aggressive fish as they get bigger so I have been told. The two I have are my first and besides the pleco are alone in their tank. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Chris <crjm28@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long I didn't think so. A friend of mine bought them with out giving it any thought. So now I'm wonderring, what will happen to fish that are in a tank that is too small. A month ago I was asking someone at PetSmart and she said they will stop growing to fit the tank, but the organs wont. Is that right? - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ¤H3ATH3R¤ <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > My 2 angels are in a 55. They get very big and fast at that. I would say that no way is a 20 gallon large enough for even 1 angel...let alone 4. > > Heather > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <crjm28@...> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long > > Could 4 angels live in a 20 gallon long? > > What about a 15 long? > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30037	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

I agree with \\Steve// about the Koi Clubs and the insurance policy issues and fences around ponds/pools, although the court cases I've seen down here in litigious Louisiana leans toward putting any kind of fence, even a 4' picket fence with a gate to deter younger kids from getting pond side. I've seen some State/City laws or insurance policies mentioning the 6' fence but the courts have found that to be an onerous burden since smaller kids would easily be stopped by a 4' fence and any kids bigger than smaller kids would climb a 6' fence as easily as a 4' fence. Heck, a 6' chain-link fence is made for climbing and is a lot easier to climb than a 4' picket fence... especially for us guys that have to worry about them pickets which are usually a lot longer than the barbs on the top of a chain link fence. LOL And dang it... 60 degrees is COLD!!!! Especially if it gets that cold for more than a day or two. LOL BTW.. what is NOVA? Down here, it's the New Orleans Volleyball Association for our outdoor beach volleyball league that plays year round although the Winter league might have us wearing warm-up suits some nights but the beer helps! :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction Chris, Oh yeah, I was going to mention the depth thing also, but got carried away looking up MG V8"s cause I saw one today, and just mentioned it to my wife, so I was a bit distracted <g>. I'd not worry so much about the law as my home owner's policy. Any pond really requires a fence around it, no matter the depth. It is known as an "attractive nuisance". Even if it 1' deep at the deep end, and a neighbor's kid comes along, falls in, and gets hurt, or, worse, drowns, you will be held liable. The fence gives you some protection in this regard. The fence need not be right up upon the pond, but can be a fenced yard. There are some specifications you must meet, like how the gate latches and the minimum height it must be, but, it has been so long since I have had to deal with that, it is kind of fuzzy in my mind right now. Lenny is from the land of hurricanes and no snow, so he has no real concept of winter, except on some days he may have to wear long sleeves and long pants, cause, darn, 60 is COLD! Seriously, the average temperature in January down there is 51.3 degrees F. On the other hand, the average January temperature at Dulles Airport is 31.7 degrees F. Obviously, if you live in the Shenandoah's, you will experience colder weather, and further south in VA, you will experience warmer. But, for NOVA, 3' depth would probably be enough to winter some fish over in the pond, provided you prepare properly for it. However, because koi can become pretty valuable fish, many will over winter the fish in a garage or cellar, using one or a mix of several different methods, where the temperature will be warmer than outside. Your best information will come from one of the clubs I mentioned earlier. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction Here's your Chris Owens research... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_> (burlesque_performer) (I bet you didn't know you were named after a famous burlesque performer... well, famous down here in New Orleans. lol) http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html <http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html> But she's also a very good citizen down here.... http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/ <http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/> and many other good things for our city. Now back to your tank(s) and pond. With only a 125G, I suspect your friend gave you the tank and fish, as the bioload of the two BIG plecos and the cichlids were too much for the tank so maintenance was becoming a major issue. Do you have room for a bigger tank.. maybe twice that size.. or trade in one of the plecos at your LFS? I'm only saying this before you put too much effort into the 125G as I do not feel it will support the current bioload plus your other planned fish. Be warned that some of the smaller cichlids are more ferocious than the larger ones so it may be why the smaller ones you still have are still there. Post pics and I'm sure one of the members will be able to identify them. They'll definitely love your plans for adding shrimp. They love shrimp. You were talking about adding shrimp as snacks for them... right? LOL Now your pond... I know about your 3' legal issues but double/triple check that 3' deep will be deep enough for over-wintering your pond. From what I've read, if you put a picket fence around a pond over 3' deep, that will get you around the legal issue. I'm not sure how cold/freezing it gets up there in Virginia but do a lot more studying on the over-wintering process. Many pond owners in very cold climates actually bring their fish indoors for the winter and keep them in large holding tanks in their garages. They can over-winter outside but it should be done in a proper manner with preparing the pond and fish for the over-wintering process. I'm down in New Orleans so we don't have much of a winter so I've never had to worry about it much. Well.. we did have a hard freeze of 3 days straight back in 1989 if that counts (LOL), other than that, we rarely get freezing temps for more than a few hours at a time. Hopefully, whomever is designing/building your pond(s) knows about REAL pond-keeping so you won't be stuck with something that has problems. I've seen many horror stories in other forums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my future to figure out who that is... Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, I've never had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) and although she gave me all the foods for them (there's three different types all saying cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of doing right by them. I've always had plecos just never any this size and one that we've already named "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- style Chinese dragon is a really unique antique gold color, the other is the common leopard. I'll post pictures if anyone could give me a hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly appreciate it. The plecos have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets on clips so I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I have it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other two are much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm not going to be able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp I was originally considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I just need another tank - LOL And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm afraid I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where they are at all times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great Danes, my way of thinking is perhaps now I need two... :D Chris from Virginia The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not including the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with a "stream" of sorts going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going over the narrow part. The deepest will only be 3' though due to state regulations. Something about at that point it becomes a pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to the side which I am learning about in the pond class I am taking which sounds like a fantastic idea. The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at least a 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't get as large as the regular (yeah regular, they have better pedigree's than I do). Right now the tank they are in has an undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and gets a 1/3 water change every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a fairly high protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine shrimp once a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the first platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to come home when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take classes at. The only goldfish that really caught my eye was a shubunkin (sp?) that was swishing around more than a Southern Belle that I found amusing but I didn't take it home. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter entertainment > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since I'm down > there. Welcome to the group. > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure they'll > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to plant and > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially during > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely love your > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't fed > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet should > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and give us > the links. > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" and not > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular goldfish > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and BIG dogs > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", usually in > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least 300G and > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also preferred. > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move them out of > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) while they > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not start to > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are probably > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the most and > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish (80-100+ > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to them > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in the first > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in large water > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth rate > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > Hello, > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the past > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the tanks. I > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still trying to > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses last > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a Christmas > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots of other > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- complete was > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 years > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other than > incrediably cranky - lol) > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a medium koi > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still gathering > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I do this > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black Malaysian) > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are already trained > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they arch > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive Samoyed > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > Looking forward to learning more, > > Chris > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 9:26:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 9:52:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30038	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long

The distance from the tip of the dorsal to the tip of the anal fin in _Pterophyllum scalare_ in a full grown angel fish should be 12". The body size of the fish carrying these fins should be 8"+. Having said that, I need to add that it has been some time since I have seen angelfish of this size. I believe that the size is being bred out of the fish, since most breeders do not grow the fish out before starting to breed them, they have no idea how large they will be when they do grow out and breed only the larger ones. When raising angels, to get the maximum finnage, the tank must be a tall tank to give the fins enough room to grow. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Not for very "long"... pardon the pun! ;-) A single angelfish in a 29G tall tank would be OK but on the minimum tank size. 25-35G per angelfish is probably a good goal to aim for. I know they look like little bitty dimes or quarters at the store but they grow to 6" long and 9" tall. Here's a good profile. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Could 4 angels live in a 20 gallon long? What about a 15 long?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30039	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long

Their growth will be severely stunted as well as their life expectancy. I'm not sure if I spelt that right. Not to mention they get agressive so they just might kill eachother first. My question would be if the knowledge was there that this wasn't right then why do it to make creatures suffer? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: �H3ATH3R� <lilredhd1@...> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:34:22 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long Lenny and others can help you more with this one. I know it stunts their growth which isnt healthy for them and angels are actually aggressive fish as they get bigger so I have been told. The two I have are my first and besides the pleco are alone in their tank. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Chris <crjm28@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long I didn't think so. A friend of mine bought them with out giving it any thought. So now I'm wonderring, what will happen to fish that are in a tank that is too small. A month ago I was asking someone at PetSmart and she said they will stop growing to fit the tank, but the organs wont. Is that right? - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, �H3ATH3R� <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > My 2 angels are in a 55. They get very big and fast at that. I would say that no way is a 20 gallon large enough for even 1 angel...let alone 4. > > Heather > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris <crjm28@...> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long > > Could 4 angels live in a 20 gallon long? > > What about a 15 long? > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30040	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long

Agreed. What's sad is a lot of breeds that don't get to the magnatude they should anymore Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:57:46 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long The distance from the tip of the dorsal to the tip of the anal fin in _Pterophyllum scalare_ in a full grown angel fish should be 12". The body size of the fish carrying these fins should be 8"+. Having said that, I need to add that it has been some time since I have seen angelfish of this size. I believe that the size is being bred out of the fish, since most breeders do not grow the fish out before starting to breed them, they have no idea how large they will be when they do grow out and breed only the larger ones. When raising angels, to get the maximum finnage, the tank must be a tall tank to give the fins enough room to grow. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Not for very "long"... pardon the pun! ;-) A single angelfish in a 29G tall tank would be OK but on the minimum tank size. 25-35G per angelfish is probably a good goal to aim for. I know they look like little bitty dimes or quarters at the store but they grow to 6" long and 9" tall. Here's a good profile. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Could 4 angels live in a 20 gallon long? What about a 15 long? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30041	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long

I'm not sure that stunting can be bred into fish, can it? It seems if two stunted fish breed, their offspring will not be genetically stunted just because their parents were stunted due to being in an overcrowded or undersized tank. Will they? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Agreed. What's sad is a lot of breeds that don't get to the magnatude they should anymore Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:57:46 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long The distance from the tip of the dorsal to the tip of the anal fin in _Pterophyllum scalare_ in a full grown angel fish should be 12". The body size of the fish carrying these fins should be 8"+. Having said that, I need to add that it has been some time since I have seen angelfish of this size. I believe that the size is being bred out of the fish, since most breeders do not grow the fish out before starting to breed them, they have no idea how large they will be when they do grow out and breed only the larger ones. When raising angels, to get the maximum finnage, the tank must be a tall tank to give the fins enough room to grow. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Not for very "long"... pardon the pun! ;-) A single angelfish in a 29G tall tank would be OK but on the minimum tank size. 25-35G per angelfish is probably a good goal to aim for. I know they look like little bitty dimes or quarters at the store but they grow to 6" long and 9" tall. Here's a good profile. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Could 4 angels live in a 20 gallon long? What about a 15 long? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 10:11:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 10:18:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30042	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long

Lenny, It is not stunting as we normally think of it--growth limited by overcrowding and various hormones secreted by the fish that inhibit growth. Many breeders do not breed for size, but, rather, breed for other traits, such as pattern, color, and scale development (speaking of angels here). They will breed for the trait(s) they are looking for, with a lot of inbreeding, breeding brother to sister, father to daughter, mother to son and lose the genes that produce the greater sizes as a result. This also leads to other undesirable traits as well. We have, in the past, here, bemoaned the weakness of the fish we see today as compared to the Golden Age of the hobby. At least part of the reason is that genes that contribute to this weakness are concentrated into the strains developed, causing what would normally be a recessive trait to become, for lack of better terminology, a dominant trait because the actual dominant gene is no longer present in the strain, or not available enough to become widespread in the strain. In fact, in some strains, it may be the lack of this dominant gene that makes the desired trait show. Even in "natural" strains, these dominant genes can disappear by breeding closely related fish together since the dominant gene may be missing from those related fish. The subject of genetics is a very complex one, and many relationships between genes and groups of genes are not yet understood by scientists, never mind the general hobbyist. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long I'm not sure that stunting can be bred into fish, can it? It seems if two stunted fish breed, their offspring will not be genetically stunted just because their parents were stunted due to being in an overcrowded or undersized tank. Will they? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Agreed. What's sad is a lot of breeds that don't get to the magnatude they should anymore Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:57:46 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long The distance from the tip of the dorsal to the tip of the anal fin in _Pterophyllum scalare_ in a full grown angel fish should be 12". The body size of the fish carrying these fins should be 8"+. Having said that, I need to add that it has been some time since I have seen angelfish of this size. I believe that the size is being bred out of the fish, since most breeders do not grow the fish out before starting to breed them, they have no idea how large they will be when they do grow out and breed only the larger ones. When raising angels, to get the maximum finnage, the tank must be a tall tank to give the fins enough room to grow. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Not for very "long"... pardon the pun! ;-) A single angelfish in a 29G tall tank would be OK but on the minimum tank size. 25-35G per angelfish is probably a good goal to aim for. I know they look like little bitty dimes or quarters at the store but they grow to 6" long and 9" tall. Here's a good profile. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Could 4 angels live in a 20 gallon long? What about a 15 long?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30043	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

NOVA = NOrthern VirginiA \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction I agree with \\Steve// about the Koi Clubs and the insurance policy issues and fences around ponds/pools, although the court cases I've seen down here in litigious Louisiana leans toward putting any kind of fence, even a 4' picket fence with a gate to deter younger kids from getting pond side. I've seen some State/City laws or insurance policies mentioning the 6' fence but the courts have found that to be an onerous burden since smaller kids would easily be stopped by a 4' fence and any kids bigger than smaller kids would climb a 6' fence as easily as a 4' fence. Heck, a 6' chain-link fence is made for climbing and is a lot easier to climb than a 4' picket fence... especially for us guys that have to worry about them pickets which are usually a lot longer than the barbs on the top of a chain link fence. LOL And dang it... 60 degrees is COLD!!!! Especially if it gets that cold for more than a day or two. LOL BTW.. what is NOVA? Down here, it's the New Orleans Volleyball Association for our outdoor beach volleyball league that plays year round although the Winter league might have us wearing warm-up suits some nights but the beer helps! :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction Chris, Oh yeah, I was going to mention the depth thing also, but got carried away looking up MG V8"s cause I saw one today, and just mentioned it to my wife, so I was a bit distracted <g>. I'd not worry so much about the law as my home owner's policy. Any pond really requires a fence around it, no matter the depth. It is known as an "attractive nuisance". Even if it 1' deep at the deep end, and a neighbor's kid comes along, falls in, and gets hurt, or, worse, drowns, you will be held liable. The fence gives you some protection in this regard. The fence need not be right up upon the pond, but can be a fenced yard. There are some specifications you must meet, like how the gate latches and the minimum height it must be, but, it has been so long since I have had to deal with that, it is kind of fuzzy in my mind right now. Lenny is from the land of hurricanes and no snow, so he has no real concept of winter, except on some days he may have to wear long sleeves and long pants, cause, darn, 60 is COLD! Seriously, the average temperature in January down there is 51.3 degrees F. On the other hand, the average January temperature at Dulles Airport is 31.7 degrees F. Obviously, if you live in the Shenandoah's, you will experience colder weather, and further south in VA, you will experience warmer. But, for NOVA, 3' depth would probably be enough to winter some fish over in the pond, provided you prepare properly for it. However, because koi can become pretty valuable fish, many will over winter the fish in a garage or cellar, using one or a mix of several different methods, where the temperature will be warmer than outside. Your best information will come from one of the clubs I mentioned earlier. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction Here's your Chris Owens research... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_> (burlesque_performer) (I bet you didn't know you were named after a famous burlesque performer... well, famous down here in New Orleans. lol) http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html <http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html> But she's also a very good citizen down here.... http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/ <http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/> and many other good things for our city. Now back to your tank(s) and pond. With only a 125G, I suspect your friend gave you the tank and fish, as the bioload of the two BIG plecos and the cichlids were too much for the tank so maintenance was becoming a major issue. Do you have room for a bigger tank.. maybe twice that size.. or trade in one of the plecos at your LFS? I'm only saying this before you put too much effort into the 125G as I do not feel it will support the current bioload plus your other planned fish. Be warned that some of the smaller cichlids are more ferocious than the larger ones so it may be why the smaller ones you still have are still there. Post pics and I'm sure one of the members will be able to identify them. They'll definitely love your plans for adding shrimp. They love shrimp. You were talking about adding shrimp as snacks for them... right? LOL Now your pond... I know about your 3' legal issues but double/triple check that 3' deep will be deep enough for over-wintering your pond. From what I've read, if you put a picket fence around a pond over 3' deep, that will get you around the legal issue. I'm not sure how cold/freezing it gets up there in Virginia but do a lot more studying on the over-wintering process. Many pond owners in very cold climates actually bring their fish indoors for the winter and keep them in large holding tanks in their garages. They can over-winter outside but it should be done in a proper manner with preparing the pond and fish for the over-wintering process. I'm down in New Orleans so we don't have much of a winter so I've never had to worry about it much. Well.. we did have a hard freeze of 3 days straight back in 1989 if that counts (LOL), other than that, we rarely get freezing temps for more than a few hours at a time. Hopefully, whomever is designing/building your pond(s) knows about REAL pond-keeping so you won't be stuck with something that has problems. I've seen many horror stories in other forums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my future to figure out who that is... Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, I've never had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) and although she gave me all the foods for them (there's three different types all saying cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of doing right by them. I've always had plecos just never any this size and one that we've already named "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- style Chinese dragon is a really unique antique gold color, the other is the common leopard. I'll post pictures if anyone could give me a hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly appreciate it. The plecos have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets on clips so I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I have it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other two are much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm not going to be able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp I was originally considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I just need another tank - LOL And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm afraid I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where they are at all times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great Danes, my way of thinking is perhaps now I need two... :D Chris from Virginia The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not including the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with a "stream" of sorts going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going over the narrow part. The deepest will only be 3' though due to state regulations. Something about at that point it becomes a pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to the side which I am learning about in the pond class I am taking which sounds like a fantastic idea. The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at least a 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't get as large as the regular (yeah regular, they have better pedigree's than I do). Right now the tank they are in has an undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and gets a 1/3 water change every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a fairly high protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine shrimp once a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the first platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to come home when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take classes at. The only goldfish that really caught my eye was a shubunkin (sp?) that was swishing around more than a Southern Belle that I found amusing but I didn't take it home. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter entertainment > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since I'm down > there. Welcome to the group. > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure they'll > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to plant and > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially during > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely love your > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't fed > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet should > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and give us > the links. > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" and not > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular goldfish > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and BIG dogs > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", usually in > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least 300G and > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also preferred. > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move them out of > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) while they > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not start to > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are probably > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the most and > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish (80-100+ > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to them > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in the first > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in large water > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth rate > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > Hello, > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the past > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the tanks. I > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still trying to > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses last > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a Christmas > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots of other > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- complete was > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that comes with a > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either way the > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 years > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other than > incrediably cranky - lol) > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a medium koi > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still gathering > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I do this > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black Malaysian) > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are already trained > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they arch > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive Samoyed > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > Looking forward to learning more, > > Chris > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 9:26:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/16/2008 9:52:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30044	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: Getting ready to add the first fish

Chris, You're correct on that second thought; you would be overpopulated if stocked with the fish you're proposing to have in your 20 gallon. BTW, is this a 20 High or 20 Long? With 72 sq. inches more surface area in the 20 Long, you could have 2 more Tiger Barbs in that than in a 20 High -- or putting it another way, if you have a 20 High, you must go with 2 less Tiger Barbs. You haven't indicated how many catfish you intended on having, but your tank would be too crowded at this point to be a question of any further uncertainty. With a group of Tiger Barbs, about the only thing you can safely add to your tank (provided you had the room) would be more Tiger Barbs, besides Cory cats which they don't seem to bother. Disspite the common notion that having these Barbs in a group of 5 or more will render them harmless (excessively occupied with each other) to other tank inhabitants, they will still find the occasions to nip and harrass other fish. Tiger Barbs are notorious fin-nippers and while keeping them in groups of at least 5 or 6 will lessen this behavior to some extent, it will not totally eliminate it. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30045	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long

The man I bought my angels from has 2 that are HUGE and look just like the 2 I got from him. I have never seen such huge angels. They are atleast 3 inches thick in the body...if you look at them straight on. He has them in 150 gal. So I may need to upgrade my 55 eventually. They grow so unbelievably fast. Heather. -----Original Message----- From: allie1068@... Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Agreed. What's sad is a lot of breeds that don't get to the magnatude they should anymore Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:57:46 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long The distance from the tip of the dorsal to the tip of the anal fin in _Pterophyllum scalare_ in a full grown angel fish should be 12". The body size of the fish carrying these fins should be 8"+. Having said that, I need to add that it has been some time since I have seen angelfish of this size. I believe that the size is being bred out of the fish, since most breeders do not grow the fish out before starting to breed them, they have no idea how large they will be when they do grow out and breed only the larger ones. When raising angels, to get the maximum finnage, the tank must be a tall tank to give the fins enough room to grow. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Not for very "long"... pardon the pun! ;-) A single angelfish in a 29G tall tank would be OK but on the minimum tank size. 25-35G per angelfish is probably a good goal to aim for. I know they look like little bitty dimes or quarters at the store but they grow to 6" long and 9" tall. Here's a good profile. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 4 Angels in a 20 long Could 4 angels live in a 20 gallon long? What about a 15 long? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30046	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/16/2008
Subject: Re: 4 Angels in a 20 long

Allie, A lot of the more recent strains were never parallelly bred to retain the original size of the species. Unfortunately, with many of these more attractive varieties, it is rare (if at all), depending upon the strain in question, that you will find one at the size they such attain as that potential has been lost in many of these varieties when breeding solely for other traits. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30047	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Comunity tank 22g

Hi again. Ok Gold fish are safely re-homed in a friend's pond :) sad to say good bye to the little guys but its better for them ^^ So now I have an empty 22g tank and I want to try some tropical fish. Ok first question: I noticed there are a lot of different kinds of Tetra (very fond of these little guys) mostly I like the Neon Tetra and the Black Phantom Tetra. Would they be ok together and would they school together? Second question: Can I put Tiger Barbs (or other Barbs really like the ruby ones too) with the Tetras? And again do the different Barbs school together? I understand these are schooling fish and I would need a few of each not sure how many? (Ok that's another question lol) And do I have room in a 22g? The only other fish I'm keen on is a Red Tail Shark which I understand I can only have one form what I gather. I Hope I'm on the right track would value any input you guys can give me. Thanks heaps. :) Leah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30048	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Comunity tank 22g

Ok so I've answered my own question about the red tailed shark and it's a No by the looks of it :( I might get a male betta instead and just some different Tetras ^^ kind of gone of the Barbs sounds like there little terrors ^^ Leah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30049	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Comunity tank 22g

Umm...sorry i have another question about Cycling a tank...It says in the article that you have to turn the heat up and i was ondering if this is before you put plants in? thanks sorry about all the questions :S

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30050	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

Taking lessons along that venue yes - thought it might be fun to surprise the boyfriend with one night (wicked, wicked smile) A pagoda is an oriental gazebo of sorts, usually you see brushstroke paintings of them with a dragon curled around them. We thought the dark gold pleco looked like one of the dragons we have seen and named it "Pagoda" as it looked like the dragon in the picture. I'll work on the names, considering how much I paid for the Koi I'd love to be able to pronounce them correctly to - anyone have a pronuncation guide? LOL Considering I've plotted out twice what the Nat'l Aquarium folk state that should give you an idea Hon about where I stand on their opinion. I used it as a benchmark, then doubled it. :D Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are you taking lessons to be a burlesque performer? LOL You didn't > indicate but since my first paragraph was about New Orleans' Chris Owens, > I'm guessing you were replying to those links. LOL > > I took a look at your pictures > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/d3a0 and I > agree with your comments about needing to learn how to take better pics... > at least when it comes to moving fish. LOL > > If you can get a pic of the brown pleco with it's dorsal fin up, that would > be helpful to someone trying ID your fish. Their dorsal fins and number of > rays are common identifiers. I definitely DO NOT think it's a Leopard Pleco > (G. gibbiceps or P. leopardus) since it doesn't have the tell- tale "spots" > which is why G. gibbiceps and P. leopardus are sometimes called a Leopard > Pleco. > > You may also want to forget everything you've ever heard about common names > for your cichlids and plecos. It is best to use the latin/scientific names > (and/or L-numbers for plecos) when talking about anything but the most > common of those fish. > > Normally, I'd refer you to a profile on PlanetCatfish.com but their site > seems to be having issues at the moment but here are a couple of other > profiles on the Leopard Pleco so you can see that yours doesn't look very > much like them. > http://fishbase.fishinfo.cn/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=12219 and the > associated photos to that profile > http://fishbase.fishinfo.cn/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.php?ID=12219 > and here's another good site besides PlanetCatfish > http://www.scotcat.com/loricariidae/pseudacanthicus_leopardus.htm > > You can see your's is definitely NOT a Leopard Pleco and you'll also see > where the above two profiles are calling the fish Leopard Pleco's when they > are completely different species. This is why common names are not used > much in the catfish and cichlid forum world. > > I'm leaning towards yours being a Liposarcus pardalis or multiradius > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile34.html and yours really > looks like the picture in of all places.. wikipedia.. lol > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterygoplichthys_pardalis except for the dorsal > fin which is missing in your picture. > > I don't have a clue about what Pagoda is. I would suggest going to > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49 or > http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=13 and posting your pics > there if someone here doesn't ID it. > > As far as your pond, I can promise you that 18" is no where near deep enough > for Koi. Even 36" is not deep enough in my opinion but it's twice as good > as 18". > > I'm not sure the "guys at the Nat'l Aquarium" know very much about pond > keeping or even fish keeping in general when it comes to home aquariums. > There's a HUGE difference in keeping fish in tanks with a limited budget > compared to a huge public tax-payer funded aquarium that can spend money > like it grows on trees. Further, I'll put my record post-Katrina against > the Aquarium Of America (New Orleans public aquarium) where they lost all of > their fish and I lost none of mine. LOL Now, who's better? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > VERRRYYYY Interesting! Scary part is I'm actually taking lessons of that > type and had absolutely NO CLUE!!! (smile) > > Posted pics under "Linden Ladies", as soon as they are approved they will > show up, also tossed up a few pics of the canine heathens as they are my > greatest fish keepers if one makes a "jump for it" one of these two will > bark ballistically until I come check. Pagoda the gold pleco likes to flare > up its fins at the baby Dane and watch it back up in a hurry, I swear you > can almost see the fish laugh! > > I was given the tank as she is leaving her husband and had four 125 gallon > tanks and many, many smaller ones. We took the 125g freshwater and two > smaller tanks. Her other tanks were all saltwater and I'm really not ready > to jump into that yet. I'm wondering if I'm in over my head with these huge > cichlids. > > In VA the usual pond is 18" which I don't feel is nearly deep enough which > is why I am going a bit deeper, almost double. The frost line is at 6" and > they "claim" that as long as you keep an area of the water ice free the fish > are fine. Hmmmm not sure I'm buying it but the guys at the Nat'l Aquarium > back up these claims so maybe my 3' > will be just fine. :D The fish need somewhere deep enough to escape the > raccoons. Any deeper than 3' and I need a 6' fence around it and I'm not > putting a fence around the property until I have the landscaping in the back > done (have almost an acre) so probably next fall after MY pool is installed > and other projects. The group that I am taking the classes from has been > doing this for 20+ years and I've seen a lot of their work and talked to > previous customers. > > Chris in Virginia > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Here's your Chris Owens research... > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_ > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_> (burlesque_performer) (I > > bet you didn't know you were named after a famous burlesque > performer... > > well, famous down here in New Orleans. lol) > > > > http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html > > <http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html> > > > > But she's also a very good citizen down here.... > > > > http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/ > > <http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/> and many other good > things for our > > city. > > > > Now back to your tank(s) and pond. > > > > With only a 125G, I suspect your friend gave you the tank and fish, > as the > > bioload of the two BIG plecos and the cichlids were too much for > the tank so > > maintenance was becoming a major issue. Do you have room for a > bigger > > tank.. maybe twice that size.. or trade in one of the plecos at > your LFS? > > I'm only saying this before you put too much effort into the 125G > as I do > > not feel it will support the current bioload plus your other > planned fish. > > > > Be warned that some of the smaller cichlids are more ferocious than > the > > larger ones so it may be why the smaller ones you still have are > still > > there. Post pics and I'm sure one of the members will be able to > identify > > them. > > > > They'll definitely love your plans for adding shrimp. They love > shrimp. > > You were talking about adding shrimp as snacks for them... right? > LOL > > > > Now your pond... > > > > I know about your 3' legal issues but double/triple check that 3' > deep will > > be deep enough for over-wintering your pond. From what I've read, > if you > > put a picket fence around a pond over 3' deep, that will get you > around the > > legal issue. > > > > I'm not sure how cold/freezing it gets up there in Virginia but do > a lot > > more studying on the over-wintering process. Many pond owners in > very cold > > climates actually bring their fish indoors for the winter and keep > them in > > large holding tanks in their garages. They can over-winter outside > but it > > should be done in a proper manner with preparing the pond and fish > for the > > over-wintering process. I'm down in New Orleans so we don't have > much of a > > winter so I've never had to worry about it much. Well.. we did > have a hard > > freeze of 3 days straight back in 1989 if that counts (LOL), other > than > > that, we rarely get freezing temps for more than a few hours at a > time. > > > > Hopefully, whomever is designing/building your pond(s) knows about > REAL > > pond-keeping so you won't be stuck with something that has > problems. I've > > seen many horror stories in other forums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Chris Owens > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > > > (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in > my future > > to figure out who that is... > > > > Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, > I've never > > had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) and > although she > > gave me all the foods for them (there's three different types all > saying > > cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of doing right by them. I've > always > > had plecos just never any this size and one that we've already named > > "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- style Chinese dragon is a > really unique > > antique gold color, the other is the common leopard. I'll post > pictures if > > anyone could give me a hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly > appreciate > > it. The plecos have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae > sheets on > > clips so I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall > when I > > have it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am > still > > pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the > > description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other > two are > > much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm not > going to be > > able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp I was > originally > > considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I just need > another tank - > > LOL > > > > And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that > I'm afraid > > I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where they are > at all > > times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great Danes, my way of > thinking is > > perhaps now I need two... :D > > > > Chris from Virginia > > > > The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not > including > > the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with a "stream" of > sorts > > going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going over the narrow > part. The > > deepest will only be 3' though due to state regulations. Something > about at > > that point it becomes a pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off > to the > > side which I am learning about in the pond class I am taking which > sounds > > like a fantastic idea. > > > > The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at > least a > > 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't get as > large as > > the regular (yeah regular, they have better pedigree's than I do). > Right now > > the tank they are in has an undergravel filter, a protien skimmer > and gets a > > 1/3 water change every day just in case. It was suggested they be > on a > > fairly high protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed > brine shrimp > > once a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the > first > > platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to > come home > > when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take classes at. > The only > > goldfish that really caught my eye was a shubunkin (sp?) that was > swishing > > around more than a Southern Belle that I found amusing but I didn't > take it > > home. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter > > entertainment > > > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since > > I'm down > > > there. Welcome to the group. > > > > > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > > > > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure > > they'll > > > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > > > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to > > plant and > > > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > > > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially > > during > > > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely > > love your > > > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they > aren't > > fed > > > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > > > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > > > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > > > > > > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their > diet > > should > > > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and > > give us > > > the links. > > > > > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" > > and not > > > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular > > goldfish > > > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and > > BIG dogs > > > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", > > usually in > > > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least > > 300G and > > > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also > > preferred. > > > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > > > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move > > them out of > > > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) > > while they > > > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not > > start to > > > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are > > probably > > > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the > > most and > > > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish > > (80-100+ > > > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens > to > > them > > > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in > > the first > > > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in > > large water > > > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth > > rate > > > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Chris Owens > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the > > past > > > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > > > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the > > tanks. I > > > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still > > trying to > > > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses > > last > > > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a > > Christmas > > > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots > > of other > > > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- > > complete was > > > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that > > comes with a > > > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. > Either > > way the > > > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over > 20 > > years > > > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other > > than > > > incrediably cranky - lol) > > > > > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a > > medium koi > > > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still > > gathering > > > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I > > do this > > > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black > > Malaysian) > > > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the > pond > > > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are > > already trained > > > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they > > arch > > > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > > > > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive > > Samoyed > > > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself > into. > > > > > > Looking forward to learning more, > > > > > > Chris > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 8:22:59 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30051	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

I am in the heart of NOVA :D I live outside of Front Royal (in Linden) and work in the Pentagon/surrounding area. I'm taking classes at an aquatic nursery called "Noah's Ark" in Front Royal, they have four seperate contractors come in and they assist with plotting out your pond, the mechanics, the asthetics, filtration, heating/winter care, and stocking. If you take the class they also will do two free housecalls regardless of whether you purchase any of their products or not. Lilypons huh? Hmmm sounds like a field trip in the making. Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Considering that you are in Virginia, and if you are close enough to NOVA or in NOVA, you may want to check out these organizations for your koi pond endeavors (in no particular order). > > http://www.makc.com/ > http://goldfish.nova.org/ > http://www.znapotomac.org/ > > The second is actually a goldfish club (Ha, and I bet you thought goldfish were not joiners!). Also, for general aquatic interests, there is http://www.pvas.com > > You said earlier you were going to be taking pond building lessons. Are you going up to Lilypons for the lessons? If not, you really owe yourself a trip up there, it is a pretty neat place. It is about 6 miles off Exit 26 from I-270. There are also a couple of places off Rt. 15 in Thurmont, MD. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my > future to figure out who that is... > > Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, > I've never had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) > and although she gave me all the foods for them (there's three > different types all saying cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of > doing right by them. I've always had plecos just never any this size > and one that we've already named "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- > style Chinese dragon is a really unique antique gold color, the other > is the common leopard. I'll post pictures if anyone could give me a > hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly appreciate it. The plecos > have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets on clips so > I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I have > it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still > pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the > description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other > two are much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm > not going to be able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp > I was originally considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I > just need another tank - LOL > > And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm > afraid I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where > they are at all times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great > Danes, my way of thinking is perhaps now I need two... :D > > Chris from Virginia > > The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not > including the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with > a "stream" of sorts going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going > over the narrow part. The deepest will only be 3' though due to > state regulations. Something about at that point it becomes a > pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to the side which I am > learning about in the pond class I am taking which sounds like a > fantastic idea. > > The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at > least a 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't > get as large as the regular (yeah regular, they have better > pedigree's than I do). Right now the tank they are in has an > undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and gets a 1/3 water change > every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a fairly high > protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine shrimp once > a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the first > platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to > come home when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take > classes at. The only goldfish that really caught my eye was a > shubunkin (sp?) that was swishing around more than a Southern Belle > that I found amusing but I didn't take it home. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter > entertainment > > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since > I'm down > > there. Welcome to the group. > > > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure > they'll > > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to > plant and > > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially > during > > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely > love your > > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't > fed > > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet > should > > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and > give us > > the links. > > > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" > and not > > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular > goldfish > > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and > BIG dogs > > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", > usually in > > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least > 300G and > > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also > preferred. > > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move > them out of > > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) > while they > > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not > start to > > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are > probably > > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the > most and > > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish > (80-100+ > > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to > them > > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in > the first > > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in > large water > > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth > rate > > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Chris Owens > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > > > Hello, > > > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the > past > > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the > tanks. I > > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still > trying to > > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses > last > > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a > Christmas > > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots > of other > > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- > complete was > > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that > comes with a > > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either > way the > > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 > years > > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other > than > > incrediably cranky - lol) > > > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a > medium koi > > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still > gathering > > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I > do this > > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black > Malaysian) > > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are > already trained > > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they > arch > > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive > Samoyed > > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > > > Looking forward to learning more, > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080915-0, 09/15/2008 > > Tested on: 9/16/2008 11:18:48 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30052	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

Otherwise known as the land of politicians, traffic, and people who don't know how to drive in ANY weather. (ie if it's sunny - can't drive it's too bright, rain - can't drive might slip on the road, a single snowflake - OH HEAVENS! MUST GO EMPTY OUT THE GROCERY STORES TO BRACE FOR A BLIZZARD!!!) Or my personal favorite, Fairfax County. The only place I know of that you have the US Constituitional right to bear arms, you just aren't allowed to shoot them. Shaking head, Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > NOVA = NOrthern VirginiA > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > I agree with \\Steve// about the Koi Clubs and the insurance policy issues > and fences around ponds/pools, although the court cases I've seen down here > in litigious Louisiana leans toward putting any kind of fence, even a 4' > picket fence with a gate to deter younger kids from getting pond side. I've > seen some State/City laws or insurance policies mentioning the 6' fence but > the courts have found that to be an onerous burden since smaller kids would > easily be stopped by a 4' fence and any kids bigger than smaller kids would > climb a 6' fence as easily as a 4' fence. Heck, a 6' chain-link fence is > made for climbing and is a lot easier to climb than a 4' picket fence... > especially for us guys that have to worry about them pickets which are > usually a lot longer than the barbs on the top of a chain link fence. LOL > > And dang it... 60 degrees is COLD!!!! Especially if it gets that cold for > more than a day or two. LOL > > BTW.. what is NOVA? Down here, it's the New Orleans Volleyball Association > for our outdoor beach volleyball league that plays year round although the > Winter league might have us wearing warm-up suits some nights but the beer > helps! :-D > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > Chris, > > Oh yeah, I was going to mention the depth thing also, but got carried away > looking up MG V8"s cause I saw one today, and just mentioned it to my wife, > so I was a bit distracted <g>. > > I'd not worry so much about the law as my home owner's policy. Any pond > really requires a fence around it, no matter the depth. It is known as an > "attractive nuisance". Even if it 1' deep at the deep end, and a neighbor's > kid comes along, falls in, and gets hurt, or, worse, drowns, you will be > held liable. The fence gives you some protection in this regard. The fence > need not be right up upon the pond, but can be a fenced yard. There are some > specifications you must meet, like how the gate latches and the minimum > height it must be, but, it has been so long since I have had to deal with > that, it is kind of fuzzy in my mind right now. > > Lenny is from the land of hurricanes and no snow, so he has no real concept > of winter, except on some days he may have to wear long sleeves and long > pants, cause, darn, 60 is COLD! Seriously, the average temperature in > January down there is 51.3 degrees F. On the other hand, the average January > temperature at Dulles Airport is 31.7 degrees F. > Obviously, if you live in the Shenandoah's, you will experience colder > weather, and further south in VA, you will experience warmer. But, for NOVA, > 3' depth would probably be enough to winter some fish over in the pond, > provided you prepare properly for it. However, because koi can become pretty > valuable fish, many will over winter the fish in a garage or cellar, using > one or a mix of several different methods, where the temperature will be > warmer than outside. Your best information will come from one of the clubs I > mentioned earlier. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > Here's your Chris Owens research... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_ > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_> (burlesque_performer) (I bet you > didn't know you were named after a famous burlesque performer... > well, famous down here in New Orleans. lol) > > http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html > <http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html> > > But she's also a very good citizen down here.... > > http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/ > <http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/> and many other good things for > our city. > > Now back to your tank(s) and pond. > > With only a 125G, I suspect your friend gave you the tank and fish, as the > bioload of the two BIG plecos and the cichlids were too much for the tank so > maintenance was becoming a major issue. Do you have room for a bigger tank.. > maybe twice that size.. or trade in one of the plecos at your LFS? > I'm only saying this before you put too much effort into the 125G as I do > not feel it will support the current bioload plus your other planned fish. > > Be warned that some of the smaller cichlids are more ferocious than the > larger ones so it may be why the smaller ones you still have are still > there. Post pics and I'm sure one of the members will be able to identify > them. > > They'll definitely love your plans for adding shrimp. They love shrimp. > You were talking about adding shrimp as snacks for them... right? LOL > > Now your pond... > > I know about your 3' legal issues but double/triple check that 3' deep will > be deep enough for over-wintering your pond. From what I've read, if you put > a picket fence around a pond over 3' deep, that will get you around the > legal issue. > > I'm not sure how cold/freezing it gets up there in Virginia but do a lot > more studying on the over-wintering process. Many pond owners in very cold > climates actually bring their fish indoors for the winter and keep them in > large holding tanks in their garages. They can over-winter outside but it > should be done in a proper manner with preparing the pond and fish for the > over-wintering process. I'm down in New Orleans so we don't have much of a > winter so I've never had to worry about it much. Well.. we did have a hard > freeze of 3 days straight back in 1989 if that counts (LOL), other than > that, we rarely get freezing temps for more than a few hours at a time. > > Hopefully, whomever is designing/building your pond(s) knows about REAL > pond-keeping so you won't be stuck with something that has problems. > I've > seen many horror stories in other forums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my future > to figure out who that is... > > Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, I've never > had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) and although she > gave me all the foods for them (there's three different types all saying > cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of doing right by them. I've always > had plecos just never any this size and one that we've already named > "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- style Chinese dragon is a really unique > antique gold color, the other is the common leopard. I'll post pictures if > anyone could give me a hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly appreciate > it. The plecos have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets on > clips so I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I > have it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still > pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the > description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other two are > much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm not going to be > able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp I was originally > considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I just need another tank - > LOL > > And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm afraid > I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where they are at all > times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great Danes, my way of thinking is > perhaps now I need two... :D > > Chris from Virginia > > The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not including > the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with a "stream" of sorts > going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going over the narrow part. The > deepest will only be 3' though due to state regulations. Something about at > that point it becomes a pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to the > side which I am learning about in the pond class I am taking which sounds > like a fantastic idea. > > The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at least a > 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't get as large as > the regular (yeah regular, they have better pedigree's than I do). Right now > the tank they are in has an undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and gets a > 1/3 water change every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a > fairly high protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine shrimp > once a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the first > platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to come home > when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take classes at. The only > goldfish that really caught my eye was a shubunkin (sp?) that was swishing > around more than a Southern Belle that I found amusing but I didn't take it > home. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter > entertainment > > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since > I'm down > > there. Welcome to the group. > > > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure > they'll > > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to > plant and > > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially > during > > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely > love your > > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't > fed > > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > > > > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet > should > > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and > give us > > the links. > > > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" > and not > > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular > goldfish > > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and > BIG dogs > > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", > usually in > > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least > 300G and > > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also > preferred. > > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move > them out of > > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) > while they > > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not > start to > > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are > probably > > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the > most and > > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish > (80-100+ > > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to > them > > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in > the first > > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in > large water > > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth > rate > > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Chris Owens > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > > > Hello, > > > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the > past > > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the > tanks. I > > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still > trying to > > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses > last > > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a > Christmas > > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots > of other > > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- > complete was > > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that > comes with a > > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either > way the > > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 > years > > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other > than > > incrediably cranky - lol) > > > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a > medium koi > > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still > gathering > > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I > do this > > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black > Malaysian) > > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are > already trained > > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they > arch > > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive > Samoyed > > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > > > Looking forward to learning more, > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 9:26:58 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 > Tested on: 9/16/2008 9:52:39 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30053	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

<almost shot coffee out my nose from laughing> Yeah, 60 degrees is cold.. uh-huh, it was what 53 in Linden last night and I had the windows open loving every second of it! Only the Dane puppy demanded more blankets the spoiled short-haired wimp! (Luv ya Lenny!) I already checked with State Farm Insurance, they told me that as long as it's not deeper than 3' without a fence they were fine with it. When I talked with Victora, my agent, she was surprised I was doing 3' as most out my way are 2' at the deepest which sounds like a shallow puddle to me. I guess if push comes to shove I could do a temporary fence and remove it when the large fence is put up. As I live on the side of a mountain (or so they call it - please, it's an overglorified HILL), when they do the major landscaping next Spring with the heavy equipment they are going to need to bring in I don't want to worry about will it fit thru the fence surrounding my little acre. I'm installing a 7' steel bar and old stone pillar fence that once it's up I don't want to have to worry about removing part of it for anything or anyone. I am not exactly deer-friendly since I got lyme from a deer tick this Spring and am still fighting the bacteria. The only good deer is one properly marinated and on the grill (can we say red wine & garlic anyone?) Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Chris, > > Oh yeah, I was going to mention the depth thing also, but got carried > away looking up MG V8"s cause I saw one today, and just mentioned it to > my wife, so I was a bit distracted <g>. > > I'd not worry so much about the law as my home owner's policy. Any pond > really requires a fence around it, no matter the depth. It is known as > an "attractive nuisance". Even if it 1' deep at the deep end, and a > neighbor's kid comes along, falls in, and gets hurt, or, worse, drowns, > you will be held liable. The fence gives you some protection in this > regard. The fence need not be right up upon the pond, but can be a > fenced yard. There are some specifications you must meet, like how the > gate latches and the minimum height it must be, but, it has been so long > since I have had to deal with that, it is kind of fuzzy in my mind right > now. > > Lenny is from the land of hurricanes and no snow, so he has no real > concept of winter, except on some days he may have to wear long sleeves > and long pants, cause, darn, 60 is COLD! Seriously, the average > temperature in January down there is 51.3 degrees F. On the other hand, > the average January temperature at Dulles Airport is 31.7 degrees F. > Obviously, if you live in the Shenandoah's, you will experience colder > weather, and further south in VA, you will experience warmer. But, for > NOVA, 3' depth would probably be enough to winter some fish over in the > pond, provided you prepare properly for it. However, because koi can > become pretty valuable fish, many will over winter the fish in a garage > or cellar, using one or a mix of several different methods, where the > temperature will be warmer than outside. Your best information will come > from one of the clubs I mentioned earlier. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > Here's your Chris Owens research... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Owens_(burlesque_performer) > (I bet you didn't know you were named after a famous burlesque > performer... > well, famous down here in New Orleans. lol) > > http://chrisowensclub.net/pages/home.html > > But she's also a very good citizen down here.... > > http://www.frenchquartereasterparade.com/ and many other good things for > our > city. > > Now back to your tank(s) and pond. > > With only a 125G, I suspect your friend gave you the tank and fish, as > the > bioload of the two BIG plecos and the cichlids were too much for the > tank so > maintenance was becoming a major issue. Do you have room for a bigger > tank.. maybe twice that size.. or trade in one of the plecos at your > LFS? > I'm only saying this before you put too much effort into the 125G as I > do > not feel it will support the current bioload plus your other planned > fish. > > Be warned that some of the smaller cichlids are more ferocious than the > larger ones so it may be why the smaller ones you still have are still > there. Post pics and I'm sure one of the members will be able to > identify > them. > > They'll definitely love your plans for adding shrimp. They love shrimp. > You were talking about adding shrimp as snacks for them... right? LOL > > Now your pond... > > I know about your 3' legal issues but double/triple check that 3' deep > will > be deep enough for over-wintering your pond. From what I've read, if > you > put a picket fence around a pond over 3' deep, that will get you around > the > legal issue. > > I'm not sure how cold/freezing it gets up there in Virginia but do a lot > more studying on the over-wintering process. Many pond owners in very > cold > climates actually bring their fish indoors for the winter and keep them > in > large holding tanks in their garages. They can over-winter outside but > it > should be done in a proper manner with preparing the pond and fish for > the > over-wintering process. I'm down in New Orleans so we don't have much > of a > winter so I've never had to worry about it much. Well.. we did have a > hard > freeze of 3 days straight back in 1989 if that counts (LOL), other than > that, we rarely get freezing temps for more than a few hours at a time. > > Hopefully, whomever is designing/building your pond(s) knows about REAL > pond-keeping so you won't be stuck with something that has problems. > I've > seen many horror stories in other forums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my > future > to figure out who that is... > > Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, I've > never > had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) and although she > gave me all the foods for them (there's three different types all saying > cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of doing right by them. I've > always > had plecos just never any this size and one that we've already named > "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- style Chinese dragon is a really > unique > antique gold color, the other is the common leopard. I'll post pictures > if > anyone could give me a hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly > appreciate > it. The plecos have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets > on > clips so I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I > have it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still > pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the > description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other two > are > much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm not going to > be > able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp I was originally > considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I just need another > tank - > LOL > > And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm > afraid > I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where they are at > all > times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great Danes, my way of > thinking is > perhaps now I need two... :D > > Chris from Virginia > > The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not > including > the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with a "stream" of sorts > going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going over the narrow part. The > deepest will only be 3' though due to state regulations. Something about > at > that point it becomes a pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to > the > side which I am learning about in the pond class I am taking which > sounds > like a fantastic idea. > > The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at least > a > 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't get as > large as > the regular (yeah regular, they have better pedigree's than I do). Right > now > the tank they are in has an undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and > gets a > 1/3 water change every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a > fairly high protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine > shrimp > once a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the > first > platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to come > home > when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take classes at. The > only > goldfish that really caught my eye was a shubunkin (sp?) that was > swishing > around more than a Southern Belle that I found amusing but I didn't take > it > home. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter > entertainment > > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since > I'm down > > there. Welcome to the group. > > > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure > they'll > > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to > plant and > > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially > during > > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely > love your > > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't > fed > > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018> > > > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet > should > > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and > give us > > the links. > > > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" > and not > > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular > goldfish > > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and > BIG dogs > > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", > usually in > > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least > 300G and > > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also > preferred. > > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move > them out of > > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) > while they > > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not > start to > > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are > probably > > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the > most and > > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish > (80-100+ > > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to > them > > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in > the first > > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in > large water > > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth > rate > > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Chris Owens > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > > > Hello, > > > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the > past > > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the > tanks. I > > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still > trying to > > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses > last > > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a > Christmas > > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots > of other > > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- > complete was > > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that > comes with a > > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either > way the > > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 > years > > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other > than > > incrediably cranky - lol) > > > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a > medium koi > > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still > gathering > > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I > do this > > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black > Malaysian) > > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are > already trained > > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they > arch > > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive > Samoyed > > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > > > Looking forward to learning more, > > > > Chris > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30054	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Getting ready to add the first fish

I am fairly new to the aquarium scene , since Feb. I have a 40 gallon with 4 Coreys and would not consider adding more. I think 2 would be plenty for your tank. I have to supliment food for them, i.e. blood worms, brine shrimp every 3-4 days to make sure they are getting enough food to eat on the bottom. I just started a second tank , 20 gallon and want to have tiger barbs. I am thinking 6 and no other fish. My daughter has barbs and they can get quite aggressive. So if you plan on having tigers only I think you should be Ok. viv --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I'm thinking of going with Barbs as a main theme. By the time I'm > done, I will have 6 - 10 tiger barbs. I'm thinking of adding adding a > small school of those albino bottom feeders (catfish?). I was > reading they like to play. In a 20 gallon, that leave room for how > much extra fish, and what do you like as companions? > > On second thought, I think I'm over populating. A little help would > be nice. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30055	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Comunity tank 22g

Hi Leah, For starters, you're correct, in that you can only have one Red Tail Shark in your tank -- they're very territorial with conspecifics. I feel I may have come into this thread at the half-way point, as I seem to be missing something when it comes to your goldish -- I hadn't noticed what type they were. While its best for them to have given them the more room of a pond, this advantage also should be looked at when considering your location and how prevalent it is in your area for the pond to ice over in Winter. Please know that fancier (fantails, other round bodied varieties, etc.) types of Goldfish need to be brought indoors during that season if you expect surface freezing. Long-bodied Goldfish with do just fine under the ice (provided there's a hole-creating heater). Back to your 22 gallon tank -- Yes, Neon and Black Phantom Tetras will get along fine with each other. No, they will not generally school together, although in larger tanks the two groups may have the tendancy to travel in the same direction. A single specimen of any species (especially one more closely related) may tag along as a stragler with another school. Yes, there are many species of Barbs to choose from which you can include with the Tetras, and which will get along with them. You can also have the Ruby Barbs with the Tiger Barbs getting along together, but as the Tiger Barbs are otherwise notoriously fin nippers, especially towards species of other Genus', you'd do best not to include them with Tetras. Two different species of Barbs will not school together either. By "Ruby" Barb, I presume you to mean Black Ruby Barb (Barbus/Puntius nigrofasciatus). On quantities for closer schoaling, its best to have at least 5 of any one species of Tetra or Barb, even more if you have the room. By this it can be seen that you will not have the room to house four groups of 5 individuals each of any of the schooling fish you mentioned, or similarly sized fish. One last thing, do not consider adding the Betta you were contemplating to add, with Tiger Barbs -- they will make swiss cheese out of his fins. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30056	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Comunity tank 22g

Are you fishless cycling? Are you planning on having a lot of live plants or just a few? The reason I ask is that IF you are going to have a lot of live plants, then it is not as much of an issue to fishless cycle since the plants would take care of the ammonia and other nitrogenous compounds, especially if the tank is going to be initially stocked with juvenile fish. If you are not going to have a lot of live plants, then it's better to NOT put any plants in the tank while it is fishless cycling, otherwise the plants will use up some of the ammonia you are adding to the tank to try and fishless cycle it for 4-5ppm of ammonia per day. The plants would be partially defeating the purpose of fishless cycling... that is to build up a large healthy nitrifying bacteria colony capable of handling 4-5ppm of ammonia per day which is the average amount of ammonia produced by a full (but not overstocked) bioload of fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of geana_wolf Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 4:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Comunity tank 22g Umm...sorry i have another question about Cycling a tank...It says in the article that you have to turn the heat up and i was ondering if this is before you put plants in? thanks sorry about all the questions :S _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 8:51:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30057	From: Suzi	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: I have a question Lenny..

If I put 5 Otocinclus in my tank with Betta, how many Neons can I safely put in the 20gal tank? ----- Have a great day! Suzi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30058	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..

Lots of other members could probably answer this one too but since it was addressed to me, here's my reply: OK. This is one of the rare situations where the 1" per gallon guideline (one part of the stocking guidelines that I have on my blog) will work... for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. The so-called "1 inch rule" does not work for any other fish outside of the above parameters. So the Betta gets to around 2.5" of body length. The Otocinclus Affinis grow to around 1.5" (you can't just use Otocinclus as there are other otos that get much bigger). The Neon Tetras grow to around 1.5" also. Since the Otos Affinis should be in shoals of five or more and you are planning five, that equals 7.5" of fish bioload added to the Betta's 2.5" equals 10" of fish bioload. So that leaves you with 10 more inches of fish bioload that a 20G can handle, on average. So a school of six Neon Tetras would equal 9" of fish bioload and would fill out the recommended maximum safe stocking guidelines for a 20G. If you look at the SC (Suggested Companions) sections on each of the below Mongabay profiles, you'll see that the above fish are OK for each other. While the Otos Affinis profile does not list the Betta (it does mention Tetras so that covers the Neon's), the Betta's profile mentions both "small schooling fish" (the Neon's) and Loricarids (the Oto's are a member of Loricariidae). I'm only including this so that others can use the Mongabay profiles and the Suggested Companions sections of those profiles to help with their own stocking ideas. References: http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Betta_splendens.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. If I put 5 Otocinclus in my tank with Betta, how many Neons can I safely put in the 20gal tank? ----- Have a great day! Suzi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 10:21:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30059	From: Suzi	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..

Thanks, I asked you because you were very helpful to me yesterday with the Pleco and Betta. ----- Have a great day! Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. Lots of other members could probably answer this one too but since it was addressed to me, here's my reply: OK. This is one of the rare situations where the 1" per gallon guideline (one part of the stocking guidelines that I have on my blog) will work... for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. The so-called "1 inch rule" does not work for any other fish outside of the above parameters. So the Betta gets to around 2.5" of body length. The Otocinclus Affinis grow to around 1.5" (you can't just use Otocinclus as there are other otos that get much bigger). The Neon Tetras grow to around 1.5" also. Since the Otos Affinis should be in shoals of five or more and you are planning five, that equals 7.5" of fish bioload added to the Betta's 2.5" equals 10" of fish bioload. So that leaves you with 10 more inches of fish bioload that a 20G can handle, on average. So a school of six Neon Tetras would equal 9" of fish bioload and would fill out the recommended maximum safe stocking guidelines for a 20G. If you look at the SC (Suggested Companions) sections on each of the below Mongabay profiles, you'll see that the above fish are OK for each other. While the Otos Affinis profile does not list the Betta (it does mention Tetras so that covers the Neon's), the Betta's profile mentions both "small schooling fish" (the Neon's) and Loricarids (the Oto's are a member of Loricariidae). I'm only including this so that others can use the Mongabay profiles and the Suggested Companions sections of those profiles to help with their own stocking ideas. References: http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Betta_splendens.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. If I put 5 Otocinclus in my tank with Betta, how many Neons can I safely put in the 20gal tank? ----- Have a great day! Suzi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 10:21:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30060	From: Mark Hough	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..

Lenny???? You would suggest mixing Bettas and Neons? If the Neon's are too small they will end up being the Betta's lunch.... On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Lots of other members could probably answer this one too but since it > was > addressed to me, here's my reply: > > OK. This is one of the rare situations where the 1" per gallon guideline > (one part of the stocking guidelines that I have on my blog) will work... > for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. The so-called > "1 inch rule" does not work for any other fish outside of the above > parameters. > > So the Betta gets to around 2.5" of body length. The Otocinclus Affinis > grow to around 1.5" (you can't just use Otocinclus as there are other otos > that get much bigger). The Neon Tetras grow to around 1.5" also. > > Since the Otos Affinis should be in shoals of five or more and you are > planning five, that equals 7.5" of fish bioload added to the Betta's 2.5" > equals 10" of fish bioload. So that leaves you with 10 more inches of fish > bioload that a 20G can handle, on average. > > So a school of six Neon Tetras would equal 9" of fish bioload and would > fill > out the recommended maximum safe stocking guidelines for a 20G. > > If you look at the SC (Suggested Companions) sections on each of the below > Mongabay profiles, you'll see that the above fish are OK for each other. > While the Otos Affinis profile does not list the Betta (it does mention > Tetras so that covers the Neon's), the Betta's profile mentions both "small > schooling fish" (the Neon's) and Loricarids (the Oto's are a member of > Loricariidae). > > I'm only including this so that others can use the Mongabay profiles and > the > Suggested Companions sections of those profiles to help with their own > stocking ideas. > > References: > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > html > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Betta_splendens.html > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Suzi > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. > > If I put 5 Otocinclus in my tank with Betta, how many Neons can I safely > put > in the 20gal tank? > > ----- > Have a great day! > > Suzi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 > Tested on: 9/17/2008 10:21:05 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30061	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..

I didn't say to add neon fry to a tank with a full grown betta. This was a new tank set up so I have to presume all of the fish will be juvi's. A juvi betta at 1" to 1.5" or even a full grown one at 2.5" isn't going to eat a 1" neon and definitely not a 1.5" neon. Further, neon tetras and most other normal fish are much faster than a male betta due to the morphed finnage on male bettas so they'll be able to keep out of the way as a rule... of course there are exceptions to every rule. Female bettas may be just as fast as other "normal" fish because they have normal finnage. Here's a snip from the article on my blog called "Hailey's 10G tank stocking suggestions" Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn’t eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the betta you choose. END SNIP The "small peaceful tetras" mentioned in the above snip are listed in the full article at http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hough Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. Lenny???? You would suggest mixing Bettas and Neons? If the Neon's are too small they will end up being the Betta's lunch.... On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Lots of other members could probably answer this one too but since it > was addressed to me, here's my reply: > > OK. This is one of the rare situations where the 1" per gallon > guideline (one part of the stocking guidelines that I have on my blog) will work... > for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. The > so-called > "1 inch rule" does not work for any other fish outside of the above > parameters. > > So the Betta gets to around 2.5" of body length. The Otocinclus > Affinis grow to around 1.5" (you can't just use Otocinclus as there > are other otos that get much bigger). The Neon Tetras grow to around 1.5" also. > > Since the Otos Affinis should be in shoals of five or more and you are > planning five, that equals 7.5" of fish bioload added to the Betta's 2.5" > equals 10" of fish bioload. So that leaves you with 10 more inches of > fish bioload that a 20G can handle, on average. > > So a school of six Neon Tetras would equal 9" of fish bioload and > would fill out the recommended maximum safe stocking guidelines for a > 20G. > > If you look at the SC (Suggested Companions) sections on each of the > below Mongabay profiles, you'll see that the above fish are OK for each other. > While the Otos Affinis profile does not list the Betta (it does > mention Tetras so that covers the Neon's), the Betta's profile > mentions both "small schooling fish" (the Neon's) and Loricarids (the > Oto's are a member of Loricariidae). > > I'm only including this so that others can use the Mongabay profiles > and the Suggested Companions sections of those profiles to help with > their own stocking ideas. > > References: > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace- > 1-per. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace > -1-per.> > html > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Betta_splendens.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Betta_splendens.html> > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html> > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Suzi > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. > > If I put 5 Otocinclus in my tank with Betta, how many Neons can I > safely put in the 20gal tank? > > ----- > Have a great day! > > Suzi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 > 10:21:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 <http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229> Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 12:25:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 12:32:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30062	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..

Mark I had my neon tetras with both my male and female Bettas, and none harassed the Neon Tetras so the answer is yes, you can put them together. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Mark Hough" <mhough6229@...> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:46:27 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. Lenny???? You would suggest mixing Bettas and Neons? If the Neon's are too small they will end up being the Betta's lunch.... On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Lots of other members could probably answer this one too but since it > was > addressed to me, here's my reply: > > OK. This is one of the rare situations where the 1" per gallon guideline > (one part of the stocking guidelines that I have on my blog) will work... > for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. The so-called > "1 inch rule" does not work for any other fish outside of the above > parameters. > > So the Betta gets to around 2.5" of body length. The Otocinclus Affinis > grow to around 1.5" (you can't just use Otocinclus as there are other otos > that get much bigger). The Neon Tetras grow to around 1.5" also. > > Since the Otos Affinis should be in shoals of five or more and you are > planning five, that equals 7.5" of fish bioload added to the Betta's 2.5" > equals 10" of fish bioload. So that leaves you with 10 more inches of fish > bioload that a 20G can handle, on average. > > So a school of six Neon Tetras would equal 9" of fish bioload and would > fill > out the recommended maximum safe stocking guidelines for a 20G. > > If you look at the SC (Suggested Companions) sections on each of the below > Mongabay profiles, you'll see that the above fish are OK for each other. > While the Otos Affinis profile does not list the Betta (it does mention > Tetras so that covers the Neon's), the Betta's profile mentions both "small > schooling fish" (the Neon's) and Loricarids (the Oto's are a member of > Loricariidae). > > I'm only including this so that others can use the Mongabay profiles and > the > Suggested Companions sections of those profiles to help with their own > stocking ideas. > > References: > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > html > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Betta_splendens.html > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Suzi > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. > > If I put 5 Otocinclus in my tank with Betta, how many Neons can I safely > put > in the 20gal tank? > > ----- > Have a great day! > > Suzi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >_____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 > Tested on: 9/17/2008 10:21:05 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30063	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..

On this note My Male Betta chased around and stressed my long finned Tetra Minor and my Gourami. The Betta females don't mind the Gourami, I took Tetra Minor back to the store, I felt bad for him. Best, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:32:41 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. I didn't say to add neon fry to a tank with a full grown betta. This was a new tank set up so I have to presume all of the fish will be juvi's. A juvi betta at 1" to 1.5" or even a full grown one at 2.5" isn't going to eat a 1" neon and definitely not a 1.5" neon. Further, neon tetras and most other normal fish are much faster than a male betta due to the morphed finnage on male bettas so they'll be able to keep out of the way as a rule... of course there are exceptions to every rule. Female bettas may be just as fast as other "normal" fish because they have normal finnage. Here's a snip from the article on my blog called "Hailey's 10G tank stocking suggestions" Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn�t eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the betta you choose. END SNIP The "small peaceful tetras" mentioned in the above snip are listed in the full article at http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hough Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. Lenny???? You would suggest mixing Bettas and Neons? If the Neon's are too small they will end up being the Betta's lunch.... On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Lots of other members could probably answer this one too but since it > was addressed to me, here's my reply: > > OK. This is one of the rare situations where the 1" per gallon > guideline (one part of the stocking guidelines that I have on my blog) will work... > for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. The > so-called > "1 inch rule" does not work for any other fish outside of the above > parameters. > > So the Betta gets to around 2.5" of body length. The Otocinclus > Affinis grow to around 1.5" (you can't just use Otocinclus as there > are other otos that get much bigger). The Neon Tetras grow to around 1.5" also. > > Since the Otos Affinis should be in shoals of five or more and you are > planning five, that equals 7.5" of fish bioload added to the Betta's 2.5" > equals 10" of fish bioload. So that leaves you with 10 more inches of > fish bioload that a 20G can handle, on average. > > So a school of six Neon Tetras would equal 9" of fish bioload and > would fill out the recommended maximum safe stocking guidelines for a > 20G. > > If you look at the SC (Suggested Companions) sections on each of the > below Mongabay profiles, you'll see that the above fish are OK for each other. > While the Otos Affinis profile does not list the Betta (it does > mention Tetras so that covers the Neon's), the Betta's profile > mentions both "small schooling fish" (the Neon's) and Loricarids (the > Oto's are a member of Loricariidae). > > I'm only including this so that others can use the Mongabay profiles > and the Suggested Companions sections of those profiles to help with > their own stocking ideas. > > References: > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace- > 1-per. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace > -1-per.> > html > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Betta_splendens.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Betta_splendens.html> > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html> > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Suzi > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. > > If I put 5 Otocinclus in my tank with Betta, how many Neons can I > safely put in the 20gal tank? > > ----- > Have a great day! > > Suzi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >_____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 > 10:21:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 <http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229> Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 12:25:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 12:32:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30064	From: Mark Hough	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..

Ok good luck... On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 2:49 PM, <bubuci@...> wrote: > Mark > > I had my neon tetras with both my male and female Bettas, and none harassed > the Neon Tetras so the answer is yes, you can put them together. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > - > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30065	From: geana_wolf	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Comunity tank 22g

Hi Ray and lenny :) I live in an area thats alwaya sunny :) we only get one or two frosts a year so the gold fishies should be ok (the water never freazes). they have a few more friends too ^^ i gave them away because i dont have room for a tank bigger than 22g and i was worried there growth would get stunted. yes i was hoping to have alot of plants lenny if there not to hard to grow. and yeah i was going to fishless cycle how does having alot of plants change what i need to do for this? I havn't set the tank up yet im doing some reserch first (and saving up some money for things) But i was going to set it up somtime this weekend and then leave it for about 3-4 weeks before thinking about fishies so the plants can grow then i will put in some Neon tetras (10 im thinking) and leave it again for a while see how i do looking after them :) thansk for the help guys My mother thinks im being silly and that tropical fish are to hard to keep and always die so im being carfull and doing alot of reserch ^^ Anyway i plan on proving her rong :D Leah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30066	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

Chris I started a 10 gallon planted tank with eco complete. I enjoyed it so much that I then planted my 20 gallon gravel tank. Then infected with MTS (multi tank syndrome) I started a 30 Gallon. Eco would have been very expensive since I would have had to drive to Houston (90 mile one way) to get it and it is $35 a bag down there plus gas! I was recommended to try the substrate from aquariumplant.com The shipping was reasonable, it came superfast and it is wonderful. Now I did rinse it before putting in the tank, the eco does not have to be rinsed. Both took less than a day to clear after planting and water added. The biggest difference is that after only 10 days I am already seeing new plant growth with the aquariumplant substrate. My Danios love digging holes in it. Also the eco is a little blacker. If I ever do another tank I would use the aquariumplant stuff. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30067	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

Chris, Lilypons is well worth the trip. It may be one of the two Old Time water garden places left. Ray may be able to confirm or deny this. The other one I am thinking about is Paradise Water Gardens in Whitman, MA, which is quite the trip. Don't know how it has changed in the 15-20 years since I was last there. They also sell aquarium fish and you can find some real oddballs there, or, at least used to be able to. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction I am in the heart of NOVA :D I live outside of Front Royal (in Linden) and work in the Pentagon/surrounding area. I'm taking classes at an aquatic nursery called "Noah's Ark" in Front Royal, they have four seperate contractors come in and they assist with plotting out your pond, the mechanics, the asthetics, filtration, heating/winter care, and stocking. If you take the class they also will do two free housecalls regardless of whether you purchase any of their products or not. Lilypons huh? Hmmm sounds like a field trip in the making. Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Considering that you are in Virginia, and if you are close enough to NOVA or in NOVA, you may want to check out these organizations for your koi pond endeavors (in no particular order). > > http://www.makc.com/ > http://goldfish.nova.org/ > http://www.znapotomac.org/ > > The second is actually a goldfish club (Ha, and I bet you thought goldfish were not joiners!). Also, for general aquatic interests, there is http://www.pvas.com > > You said earlier you were going to be taking pond building lessons. Are you going up to Lilypons for the lessons? If not, you really owe yourself a trip up there, it is a pretty neat place. It is about 6 miles off Exit 26 from I-270. There are also a couple of places off Rt. 15 in Thurmont, MD. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my > future to figure out who that is... > > Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, > I've never had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) > and although she gave me all the foods for them (there's three > different types all saying cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of > doing right by them. I've always had plecos just never any this size > and one that we've already named "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- > style Chinese dragon is a really unique antique gold color, the other > is the common leopard. I'll post pictures if anyone could give me a > hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly appreciate it. The plecos > have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets on clips so > I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I have > it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still > pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the > description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other > two are much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm > not going to be able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp > I was originally considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I > just need another tank - LOL > > And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm > afraid I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where > they are at all times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great > Danes, my way of thinking is perhaps now I need two... :D > > Chris from Virginia > > The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not > including the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with > a "stream" of sorts going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going > over the narrow part. The deepest will only be 3' though due to > state regulations. Something about at that point it becomes a > pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to the side which I am > learning about in the pond class I am taking which sounds like a > fantastic idea. > > The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at > least a 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't > get as large as the regular (yeah regular, they have better > pedigree's than I do). Right now the tank they are in has an > undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and gets a 1/3 water change > every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a fairly high > protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine shrimp once > a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the first > platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to > come home when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take > classes at. The only goldfish that really caught my eye was a > shubunkin (sp?) that was swishing around more than a Southern Belle > that I found amusing but I didn't take it home. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter > entertainment > > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since > I'm down > > there. Welcome to the group. > > > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure > they'll > > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to > plant and > > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially > during > > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely > love your > > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't > fed > > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet > should > > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and > give us > > the links. > > > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" > and not > > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular > goldfish > > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and > BIG dogs > > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", > usually in > > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least > 300G and > > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also > preferred. > > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move > them out of > > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) > while they > > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not > start to > > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are > probably > > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the > most and > > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish > (80-100+ > > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to > them > > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in > the first > > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in > large water > > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth > rate > > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Chris Owens > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > > > Hello, > > > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the > past > > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the > tanks. I > > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still > trying to > > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses > last > > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a > Christmas > > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots > of other > > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- > complete was > > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that > comes with a > > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either > way the > > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 > years > > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other > than > > incrediably cranky - lol) > > > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a > medium koi > > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still > gathering > > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I > do this > > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black > Malaysian) > > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are > already trained > > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they > arch > > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive > Samoyed > > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > > > Looking forward to learning more, > > > > Chris > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30068	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: I have a question Lenny..

Yes, if you re-read the 10G tank stocking suggestions (the betta snip is 1/3rd down), it says Bettas should not be put in with other fish with long flowing finnage as the male Betta feels threatened. Also, if the tank isn't big enough (surface area), it's not good to put other labyrinth fish in with Bettas since they are considered surface dwellers since they breathe at the surface so much. Gouramis are also labyrinth fish so they're not usually a good mix unless the tank is large enough. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 1:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. On this note My Male Betta chased around and stressed my long finned Tetra Minor and my Gourami. The Betta females don't mind the Gourami, I took Tetra Minor back to the store, I felt bad for him. Best, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:32:41 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. I didn't say to add neon fry to a tank with a full grown betta. This was a new tank set up so I have to presume all of the fish will be juvi's. A juvi betta at 1" to 1.5" or even a full grown one at 2.5" isn't going to eat a 1" neon and definitely not a 1.5" neon. Further, neon tetras and most other normal fish are much faster than a male betta due to the morphed finnage on male bettas so they'll be able to keep out of the way as a rule... of course there are exceptions to every rule. Female bettas may be just as fast as other "normal" fish because they have normal finnage. Here's a snip from the article on my blog called "Hailey's 10G tank stocking suggestions" Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesnt eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the betta you choose. END SNIP The "small peaceful tetras" mentioned in the above snip are listed in the full article at http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list. h> tml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Mark Hough Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. Lenny???? You would suggest mixing Bettas and Neons? If the Neon's are too small they will end up being the Betta's lunch.... On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Lots of other members could probably answer this one too but since it > was addressed to me, here's my reply: > > OK. This is one of the rare situations where the 1" per gallon > guideline (one part of the stocking guidelines that I have on my blog) will work... > for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. The > so-called > "1 inch rule" does not work for any other fish outside of the above > parameters. > > So the Betta gets to around 2.5" of body length. The Otocinclus > Affinis grow to around 1.5" (you can't just use Otocinclus as there > are other otos that get much bigger). The Neon Tetras grow to around 1.5" also. > > Since the Otos Affinis should be in shoals of five or more and you are > planning five, that equals 7.5" of fish bioload added to the Betta's 2.5" > equals 10" of fish bioload. So that leaves you with 10 more inches of > fish bioload that a 20G can handle, on average. > > So a school of six Neon Tetras would equal 9" of fish bioload and > would fill out the recommended maximum safe stocking guidelines for a > 20G. > > If you look at the SC (Suggested Companions) sections on each of the > below Mongabay profiles, you'll see that the above fish are OK for > each other. > While the Otos Affinis profile does not list the Betta (it does > mention Tetras so that covers the Neon's), the Betta's profile > mentions both "small schooling fish" (the Neon's) and Loricarids (the > Oto's are a member of Loricariidae). > > I'm only including this so that others can use the Mongabay profiles > and the Suggested Companions sections of those profiles to help with > their own stocking ideas. > > References: > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace- > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace > -> > 1-per. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace > > > -1-per.> > html > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Betta_splendens.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Betta_splendens.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Betta_splendens.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Betta_splendens.html> > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html> > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html> > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Suzi > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] I have a question Lenny.. > > If I put 5 Otocinclus in my tank with Betta, how many Neons can I > safely put in the 20gal tank? > > ----- > Have a great day! > > Suzi > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080917-0, 09/17/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 9:12:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30069	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: New group member introduction

If you want a lower cost DIY substrate and have a little time to set it up, see the Diana Walstad's DIY substrate that she writes about in one of her books... a summary of the book is here with the formula for the DIY substrate... http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html. Also look at the Substrate article on Chuck's Planted Aquaria website and his fertilizer article and dosing calculator... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm Here's an active thread about the "El Natural" tank by Diana Walstad so you can learn from reading the several pages (up to 6 pages now) of posts and answers. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/26458-what-el-natural -step-step.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzy Snowflake Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction Chris I started a 10 gallon planted tank with eco complete. I enjoyed it so much that I then planted my 20 gallon gravel tank. Then infected with MTS (multi tank syndrome) I started a 30 Gallon. Eco would have been very expensive since I would have had to drive to Houston (90 mile one way) to get it and it is $35 a bag down there plus gas! I was recommended to try the substrate from aquariumplant.com The shipping was reasonable, it came superfast and it is wonderful. Now I did rinse it before putting in the tank, the eco does not have to be rinsed. Both took less than a day to clear after planting and water added. The biggest difference is that after only 10 days I am already seeing new plant growth with the aquariumplant substrate. My Danios love digging holes in it. Also the eco is a little blacker. If I ever do another tank I would use the aquariumplant stuff. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080916-0, 09/16/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 6:35:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080917-0, 09/17/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 10:19:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30070	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2008
Subject: Re: Comunity tank 22g

Here are links to Very Easy and Easy to grow plants that do not require sophisticate lighting or CO2 injection. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> &filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> &filter_by=3 Also see the reply I just posted in the "New Group Member Introduction" thread that gives several links to some good plant sites and DIY things that are inexpensive... or free if you have the stuff around your home. Fish keeping is not too hard once you understand the basics. I compare it to riding a bike. It takes a little work in the beginning but then once you know how, you look back and wonder why it was so hard in the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of geana_wolf Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Comunity tank 22g Hi Ray and lenny :) I live in an area thats alwaya sunny :) we only get one or two frosts a year so the gold fishies should be ok (the water never freazes). they have a few more friends too ^^ i gave them away because i dont have room for a tank bigger than 22g and i was worried there growth would get stunted. yes i was hoping to have alot of plants lenny if there not to hard to grow. and yeah i was going to fishless cycle how does having alot of plants change what i need to do for this? I havn't set the tank up yet im doing some reserch first (and saving up some money for things) But i was going to set it up somtime this weekend and then leave it for about 3-4 weeks before thinking about fishies so the plants can grow then i will put in some Neon tetras (10 im thinking) and leave it again for a while see how i do looking after them :) thansk for the help guys My mother thinks im being silly and that tropical fish are to hard to keep and always die so im being carfull and doing alot of reserch ^^ Anyway i plan on proving her wrong :D Leah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080917-0, 09/17/2008 Tested on: 9/17/2008 10:26:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30071	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish"

Thought I'd pass this on. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204> One of the featured articles in the PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) online edition. A good magazine in the UK but available online for free everywhere else. You do have to register at the website and subscribe to it though. While on that subject, TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine has an online subscription for only $1.00 U.S. which is practically free. I know online magazines aren't as easy to read as their printed counterparts... especially since I do some of my best reading on my "throne" and it looks funny to have the laptop in there. Luckily, my neighbors can't me sitting on my "throne" with my laptop. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080917-0, 09/17/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 10:42:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30072	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Unidentified fish under new photos

Ok, as I have been researching I think I may have an idea on the large yellow fish that I thought was a cichlid but wasn't really sure. According the fish profiles site, it may be a large Amphilophus labiatus or a Red Devil Cichlid. What do you folks think? Chris in VA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30073	From: MADAN LOMBAR	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish"

THANK YOU. WE GET SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE FROM YOUR GROUP AND MEMBERS. THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN. --- On Thu, 18/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish" To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 18 September, 2008, 9:12 PM Thought I'd pass this on. http://www.practica lfishkeeping. co.uk/pfk/ pages/blog. php?blogid= 204 <http://www.practica lfishkeeping. co.uk/pfk/ pages/blog. php?blogid= 204> One of the featured articles in the PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) online edition. A good magazine in the UK but available online for free everywhere else. You do have to register at the website and subscribe to it though. While on that subject, TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine has an online subscription for only $1.00 U.S. which is practically free. I know online magazines aren't as easy to read as their printed counterparts. .. especially since I do some of my best reading on my "throne" and it looks funny to have the laptop in there. Luckily, my neighbors can't me sitting on my "throne" with my laptop. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080917-0, 09/17/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 10:42:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: Unidentified fish under new photos

Could be yours! Here's Mongabay's profile on them which gives detailed features in the "Physical Description" section, to verify. They say labiatuM instead of labiatuS but the scientific names do change from time to time for various reasons. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_labiatum.html There is also the Midas Cichlid that is also called a Red Devil which is why it's good to get away from common names for cichlids. They look similar so some stores might sell these as "Red Devils" and other stores may sell the A. Labiatum/s as "Red Devils"... or they might have another species mis-named. LOL http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_citrinellus.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Unidentified fish under new photos Ok, as I have been researching I think I may have an idea on the large yellow fish that I thought was a cichlid but wasn't really sure. According the fish profiles site, it may be a large Amphilophus labiatus or a Red Devil Cichlid. What do you folks think? Chris in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 12:11:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30075	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish"

Lucky? More than that I would think :) Thanks for the information about the online memberships. I like PFK and it is hard to find in print, online sounds great. -Mike especially since I do some of my best reading on my "throne" and it looks funny to have the laptop in there. Luckily, my neighbors can't me sitting on my "throne" with my laptop. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 8:42 am Subject: [AquaticLife] PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish" Thought I'd pass this on. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204> One of the featured articles in the PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) online edition. A good magazine in the UK but available online for free everywhere else. You do have to register at the website and subscribe to it though. While on that subject, TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine has an online subscription for only $1.00 U.S. which is practically free. I know online magazines aren't as easy to read as their printed counterparts... especially since I do some of my best reading on my "throne" and it looks funny to have the laptop in there. Luckily, my neighbors can't me sitting on my "throne" with my laptop. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Bl og - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080917-0, 09/17/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 10:42:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30076	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: TB Emergency

Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.  Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding.    From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.  She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami.  I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.  What can I do to prevent this?    Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap?  Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?   Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds.  I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do.   Please help!  Emergency!  Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!   Sincerely worried sick, Tania   Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30077	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

First of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a human with a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection, but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. In humans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. I think that it doesn't look much different from other skin infections acquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped and inflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treated with anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank and using antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands well may do the trick. But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TB the next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened other ways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after it died. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up on something and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let's figure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > Dear Lenny + Friends, > > Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. > > Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female > bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I > found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked > like she had internal bleeding. > > From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING > out for my family + for the rest of my fish. > > She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost > Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female > Bettas, & 1 Gourami. > > I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. > What can I do to prevent this? > > Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I > put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? > > Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated > fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may > have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's > what they do. > > Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! > > Sincerely worried sick, > Tania > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30078	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Dear Dora, She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood. No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass. I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank + Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die? Help!!!! Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency First of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a human with a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection, but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. In humans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. I think that it doesn't look much different from other skin infections acquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped and inflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treated with anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank and using antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands well may do the trick. But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TB the next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened other ways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after it died. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up on something and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let's figure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > Dear Lenny + Friends, > > Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. > > Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female > bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I > found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked > like she had internal bleeding. > > From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING > out for my family + for the rest of my fish. > > She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost > Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female > Bettas, & 1 Gourami. > > I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. > What can I do to prevent this? > > Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I > put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? > > Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated > fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may > have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's > what they do. > > Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! > > Sincerely worried sick, > Tania > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30079	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM]RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction

paradise gardens is still in business, they don't have the selection of tropical fish that they used to have but for goldies and koi they are still one of the best around (when you were there they were sort of in the middle of nowhere, now there is a super stop and shop literally across the street!) ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 07:43 PM Subject: [SPAM]RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction Chris, Lilypons is well worth the trip. It may be one of the two Old Time water garden places left. Ray may be able to confirm or deny this. The other one I am thinking about is Paradise Water Gardens in Whitman, MA, which is quite the trip. Don't know how it has changed in the 15-20 years since I was last there. They also sell aquarium fish and you can find some real oddballs there, or, at least used to be able to. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction I am in the heart of NOVA :D I live outside of Front Royal (in Linden) and work in the Pentagon/surrounding area. I'm taking classes at an aquatic nursery called "Noah's Ark" in Front Royal, they have four seperate contractors come in and they assist with plotting out your pond, the mechanics, the asthetics, filtration, heating/winter care, and stocking. If you take the class they also will do two free housecalls regardless of whether you purchase any of their products or not. Lilypons huh? Hmmm sounds like a field trip in the making. Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Considering that you are in Virginia, and if you are close enough to NOVA or in NOVA, you may want to check out these organizations for your koi pond endeavors (in no particular order). > > http://www.makc.com/ > http://goldfish.nova.org/ > http://www.znapotomac.org/ > > The second is actually a goldfish club (Ha, and I bet you thought goldfish were not joiners!). Also, for general aquatic interests, there is http://www.pvas.com > > You said earlier you were going to be taking pond building lessons. Are you going up to Lilypons for the lessons? If not, you really owe yourself a trip up there, it is a pretty neat place. It is about 6 miles off Exit 26 from I-270. There are also a couple of places off Rt. 15 in Thurmont, MD. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New group member introduction > > (wicked laugh) No, I'm not but somehow I'm seeing some research in my > future to figure out who that is... > > Definately the plecos, the cichlids I'm not so sold on. Frankly, > I've never had them before (except Angelfish if you count them in) > and although she gave me all the foods for them (there's three > different types all saying cichlid on the label) I'm really leary of > doing right by them. I've always had plecos just never any this size > and one that we've already named "Pagoda" as it looks like the brush- > style Chinese dragon is a really unique antique gold color, the other > is the common leopard. I'll post pictures if anyone could give me a > hand in ID'ing the cichlids I'd certainly appreciate it. The plecos > have lots to eat from algae wafers to dried algae sheets on clips so > I'm not too worried about them nibbling on the moss wall when I have > it going. I just got the sheeting for it the other day and am still > pricing it out. The large bright yellow ciclid is (forgive the > description) definately dinner plate sized if that helps, the other > two are much smaller, somehow I'm thinking if he's in the tank I'm > not going to be able to keep a lot of the smaller fish and/or shrimp > I was originally considering. :( I don't know, we'll see. Perhaps I > just need another tank - LOL > > And yeah, I do prefer large dogs, I hate little yappy things that I'm > afraid I'm going to crush. With my two girls I know exactly where > they are at all times, besides my ex-husband is afraid of Great > Danes, my way of thinking is perhaps now I need two... :D > > Chris from Virginia > > The Koi pond we have planned out will be in three sections (not > including the waterfalls) the main pond will be 11' x 18' with > a "stream" of sorts going to a smaller 10'x10' with a bridge going > over the narrow part. The deepest will only be 3' though due to > state regulations. Something about at that point it becomes a > pool.... There will also be a "bio-bog" off to the side which I am > learning about in the pond class I am taking which sounds like a > fantastic idea. > > The Koi will be out of that tank hopefully fairly soon and into at > least a 55g for the rest of the winter, I know the butterflies don't > get as large as the regular (yeah regular, they have better > pedigree's than I do). Right now the tank they are in has an > undergravel filter, a protien skimmer and gets a 1/3 water change > every day just in case. It was suggested they be on a fairly high > protien diet so they are steady chowing on handfed brine shrimp once > a day and a special koi food in the mornings. We were give the first > platinum butterfly as a gift and the others just kinda "begged" to > come home when they kept staring at me at the pond center I take > classes at. The only goldfish that really caught my eye was a > shubunkin (sp?) that was swishing around more than a Southern Belle > that I found amusing but I didn't take it home. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > First, are you the Chris Owens of New Orleans French Quarter > entertainment > > fame? I'm guessing not but thought I'd throw that out there since > I'm down > > there. Welcome to the group. > > > > Are you planning on keeping the two plecos and three cichlids? > > > > If yes, then please do a lot more reading on them. I'm not sure > they'll > > agree with your aquascaping plans. They prefer to do their own > > aquascaping... meaning they'll mostly dig up any plants you try to > plant and > > the BIG plecos, while they appear harmless, are actually like big > > bull-dozers and will also do quite a bit of remodeling, especially > during > > the night hours when they are more active. The plecos will likely > love your > > planned Christmas Moss wall... as a late night snack if they aren't > fed > > enough. LOL Here's a long article on feeding plecos. > > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 > > > > You also need to identify your cichlids to find out what their diet > should > > be. Post some pictures in your own photo album or the groups and > give us > > the links. > > > > As to your Koi pond, I'm glad you referred to it as a "Koi pond" > and not > > just a pond as Koi ponds are usually much different than regular > goldfish > > aquascaped ponds. It seems you have a penchant for BIG fish... and > BIG dogs > > too! ;-) Make sure you pond is BIG too. Koi grow to over 30", > usually in > > their first 10 years if they are not stunted. Plan for at least > 300G and > > preferably 500G for each fish. A pond at least 6' deep is also > preferred. > > I have more info on ponds on my blog including a few links to free > > online/downloadable pond design sites/e-books. You want to move > them out of > > that 29G tank ASAP and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) > while they > > are in the 29G to help keep the hormone levels low so they do not > start to > > suffer from the stunting that can take place. I know they are > probably > > still small, but fish, like us humans, are supposed to grow the > most and > > fastest during our juvenile months/years. Koi are long living fish > (80-100+ > > years) so they are more likely to overcome stunting that happens to > them > > initially but they do grow to 50% of their expected adult size in > the first > > couple of years, so these are the times when they need to be in > large water > > volumes, and then reach 90% by ten years old.... then their growth > rate > > slows down over the rest of their long lives. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Chris Owens > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New group member introduction > > > > Hello, > > > > My name is Chris and I have been keeping freshwater fish for the > past > > 18 or so years now. I am just beginning to experiment into real > > honest-to-goodness aquascaping, before it was just plants in the > tanks. I > > was just given a 125g tank with tons of equipment that I am still > trying to > > determine exactly what it is, I just figured out the wet/dry hoses > last > > night and will be starting it up tonight! :D Looking into doing a > Christmas > > Moss wall across the back and a driftwood with star moss with lots > of other > > plants in a real honest to goodness substrate. I was told Eco- > complete was > > really good and the aquarium guys.com has a rival product that > comes with a > > guarantee so I haven't figured out which way to go just yet. Either > way the > > tank came with five residents (two 14" plecos that are well over 20 > years > > old each, and three ciclids that I'm not sure of exact type other > than > > incrediably cranky - lol) > > > > I have a 15 year old daughter and we are planning to install a > medium koi > > pond in the front yard with two waterfalls next spring, I'm still > gathering > > the materials I will need for this and taking classes to ensure I > do this > > properly. We already have five koi (3 butterfly and two black > Malaysian) > > living in a 29g tank indoors - I know we should have gotten the pond > > together first but we sooo couldn't help ourselves. They are > already trained > > to come to the top of the tank for pets and treats, I swear they > arch > > themselves under your finger like they were cats. > > > > We have two dogs, a young Great Dane and a Samoyed, I do extensive > Samoyed > > rescue in addition to the myriad of other things I find myself into. > > > > Looking forward to learning more, > > > > Chris > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30080	From: harry perry	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency/Tania relax

Go here http://en.allexperts.com/q/Fish-1472/TB-fish-transferable-humans.htm copy and paste remove any extra spaces. Harry --- On Thu, 9/18/08, bubuci@... <bubuci@...> wrote: From: bubuci@... <bubuci@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 4:41 PM Dear Dora, She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood. No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass. I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank + Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die? Help!!!! Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency First of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a human with a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection, but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. In humans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. I think that it doesn't look much different from other skin infections acquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped and inflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treated with anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank and using antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands well may do the trick. But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TB the next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened other ways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after it died. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up on something and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let's figure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > Dear Lenny + Friends, > > Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. > > Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female > bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I > found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked > like she had internal bleeding. > > From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING > out for my family + for the rest of my fish. > > She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost > Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female > Bettas, & 1 Gourami. > > I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. > What can I do to prevent this? > > Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I > put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? > > Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated > fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may > have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's > what they do. > > Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! > > Sincerely worried sick, > Tania > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30081	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for freshwater

My friend is getting a bigger tank and giving me his old one. It is a saltwater and I will be using it for freshwater. What is the best thing to clean it with to remove the salt? Thanks Vivian

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30082	From: harry perry	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: saltwater tank /Vivian

I would be more concerned about disinfecting than the salt.; I would replace any gravel or substrate and disinfect with bleach. Rinse until you don't smell any bleach and use a good declorinator when setting up your tank. Harry --- On Thu, 9/18/08, vivian bradish <viv32117@...> wrote: From: vivian bradish <viv32117@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for freshwater To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 5:25 PM My friend is getting a bigger tank and giving me his old one. It is a saltwater and I will be using it for freshwater. What is the best thing to clean it with to remove the salt? Thanks Vivian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30083	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish"

Too much information! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish" Thought I'd pass this on. http://www.practica <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204> lfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204 <http://www.practica <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204> lfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204> One of the featured articles in the PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) online edition. A good magazine in the UK but available online for free everywhere else. You do have to register at the website and subscribe to it though. While on that subject, TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine has an online subscription for only $1.00 U.S. which is practically free. I know online magazines aren't as easy to read as their printed counterparts... especially since I do some of my best reading on my "throne" and it looks funny to have the laptop in there. Luckily, my neighbors can't me sitting on my "throne" with my laptop. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080917-0, 09/17/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 10:42:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30084	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: The Sant Ocean Hall

This is a permanent exhibition, scheduled to be opened September 27, 2008. You may want to put this on your list of things to see the next time you visit Washington, DC. You can see more at http://ocean.si.edu/ocean_hall/. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30085	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Just so happens I was just reading a nice thread about Fish TB started and commented on by Diana Walstad (noted fish keeper and author). Maybe it has some info you haven't seen elsewhere. Diana seems to have successfully fought back against Fish TB infestation in her own tank(s). http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/47682-my-talk-present ation-fish-tb-disease.html Remember to call it Fish TB, not just TB as the Human TB is a completely different pathogen. Fish TB is contagious to humans but it doesn't become Human Tuberculosis. I don't think it's very contagious though as Fish TB seems to be fairly common in the industry but I never see anyone posting that they actually came down with it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding. From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami. I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. What can I do to prevent this? Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do. Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! Sincerely worried sick, Tania _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:17:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30086	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Ooops.. one other thing. The curved spine can also be caused by an electrical shock and I think it's also a sign of NTD (Neon Tetra Disease) so don't jump to conclusions of it being Fish TB. If you are really concerned and it appears you are, you should bring the dead fish to a veterinarian to be properly diagnosed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding. From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami. I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. What can I do to prevent this? Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do. Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! Sincerely worried sick, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 3:16:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:19:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30087	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Tania, From the scant information you presented, I'd not jump to the conclusion that your fish had, and died, from TB. There are other rational reasons for the appearance of your fish when you found it. The bent spine could simply reflect the position the spine was in when rigor mortis set in. The open belly could be one or more fish enjoying a snack. I do not know how you concluded that there was internal bleeding. From "Fish Tuberculosis" by Leslie Keefer: " the symptoms of Fish TB are usually wasting, lesions on the body, skeletal deformities (a few of mine developed curved spines), and loss of scales and coloration. This is a relentless disease." http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Keefer_FishTB.html Other sources I have looked at pretty much agree with this assessment. Your statement that she was fine one day, dead the next just does not jibe with the descriptions of the disease I saw, so I would say that your fears are not warranted, at least, not at this time. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.  Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding.    From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.  She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami.  I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.  What can I do to prevent this?    Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap?  Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?   Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds.  I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do.   Please help!  Emergency!  Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!   Sincerely worried sick, Tania

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30088	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Changing the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a cat drink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drink from a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress to the fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drink might do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be very comfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Dora, She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood. No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass. I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank + Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die? Help!!!! Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency First of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a human with a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection, but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. In humans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. I think that it doesn't look much different from other skin infections acquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped and inflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treated with anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank and using antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands well may do the trick. But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TB the next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened other ways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after it died. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up on something and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let's figure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > Dear Lenny + Friends, > > Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. > > Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female > bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it > looked like she had internal bleeding. > > From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally > FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. > > She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost > Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female > Bettas, & 1 Gourami. > > I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. > What can I do to prevent this? > > Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should > I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? > > Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the > contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid > that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a > toddler and that's what they do. > > Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! > > Sincerely worried sick, > Tania > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30089	From: L. Gove	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

My cat and a male betta that I had for a long time, were best friends.. whenever the cat would walk over to 'his' fish, they would hang out together and seem to kiss.. i wish now i had taken pics.. it was cute. On 9/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Changing the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a cat > drink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drink > from a fish tank. > > They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress to > the fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drink > might do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be very > comfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bubuci@... > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > Dear Dora, > > She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood. > No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass. > > I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank + > Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die? > > Help!!!! > > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> > > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > First of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a human > with a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection, > but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. In > humans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. I > think that it doesn't look much different from other skin infections > acquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped and > inflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treated > with anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank and > using antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands well > may do the trick. > > But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TB > the next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened other > ways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after it > died. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up on > something and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let's > figure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <bubuci@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > >> Dear Lenny + Friends, >> >> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. >> >> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female >> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. >> I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it >> looked like she had internal bleeding. >> >> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally >> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. >> >> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost >> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female >> Bettas, & 1 Gourami. >> >> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. >> What can I do to prevent this? >> >> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should >> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? >> >> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the >> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid >> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a >> toddler and that's what they do. >> >> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! >> >> Sincerely worried sick, >> Tania >> >> > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 > Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30090	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

One thing - he said that the fish was fine one day and dead the next with a big hole in it and a deformed spine. I saw your comments that other things could have happened to the fish, and I too think that other things could have happened to the fish. But the concern rests on one logical grounds. Is it possible for TB to develop, create a large open sore and a bent spine, and kill the fish, in a single day, if the fish was fine the day before? I kind of doubt it, but I don't really know. Maybe the plague could move that fast. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Ooops.. one other thing. The curved spine can also be caused by an electrical shock and I think it's also a sign of NTD (Neon Tetra Disease) so don't jump to conclusions of it being Fish TB. If you are really concerned and it appears you are, you should bring the dead fish to a veterinarian to be properly diagnosed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding. From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami. I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. What can I do to prevent this? Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do. Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! Sincerely worried sick, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 3:16:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:19:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for freshwater

White vinegar will loosen the hard water and salt buildup. Then rinse. A second treatment may be needed and you can turn the tank on it's four sides and use a sponge soaked in vinegar to sit on top of any heavy buildup to saturate the buildup with vinegar. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for freshwater My friend is getting a bigger tank and giving me his old one. It is a saltwater and I will be using it for freshwater. What is the best thing to clean it with to remove the salt? Thanks Vivian _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 10:05:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish"

Awwww.. I thought you'd like reading about the ugly fish and the free stuff! Ohhhh... maybe you were talking about my "throne". LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 7:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish" Too much information! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] PFK's "10 hideously ugly fish" Thought I'd pass this on. http://www.practica <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204> > > lfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204 <http://www.practica <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204> > > lfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=204> One of the featured articles in the PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) online edition. A good magazine in the UK but available online for free everywhere else. You do have to register at the website and subscribe to it though. While on that subject, TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine has an online subscription for only $1.00 U.S. which is practically free. I know online magazines aren't as easy to read as their printed counterparts... especially since I do some of my best reading on my "throne" and it looks funny to have the laptop in there. Luckily, my neighbors can't me sitting on my "throne" with my laptop. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 10:09:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30093	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Proves what I always say... our pets do not always read the same information we do and sometimes do not realize they are supposed to be arch enemies. Hopefully, you've seen enough posts to be more assured that your fish likely DID NOT have Fish TB but if you are concerned, bring the dead fish to a veterinarian for proper diagnosis. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency My cat and a male betta that I had for a long time, were best friends.. whenever the cat would walk over to 'his' fish, they would hang out together and seem to kiss.. i wish now i had taken pics.. it was cute. On 9/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Changing the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let > a cat drink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a > parakeet?) drink from a fish tank. > > They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue > stress to the fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen > window for a drink might do to you. He might not eat you but you > surely wouldn't be very comfortable with him reaching through your > kitchen window. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > Dear Dora, > > She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood. > No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass. > > I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank + > Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die? > > Help!!!! > > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@... > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > First of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a > human with a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic > infection, but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body > temperature. In humans it is generally a skin infection that moves > extremely slowly. I think that it doesn't look much different from > other skin infections acquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal > and develop a heaped and inflamed appearance around the edges. I don't > know if it must be treated with anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that > wearing gloves in the tank and using antibiotic cream - not ointment - > as well as washing your hands well may do the trick. > > But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead > of TB the next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have > happened other ways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a > curved spine after it died. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish > or get hung up on something and get hurt. I've actually lost three > danios that way. Let's figure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > >> Dear Lenny + Friends, >> >> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. >> >> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female >> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. >> I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it >> looked like she had internal bleeding. >> >> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally >> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. >> >> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost >> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female >> Bettas, & 1 Gourami. >> >> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. >> What can I do to prevent this? >> >> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should >> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? >> >> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the >> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so >> afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as >> he is a toddler and that's what they do. >> >> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! >> >> Sincerely worried sick, >> Tania >> >> > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 > 9:25:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com> on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:43:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 10:16:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30094	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Lenny, maybe it would help if you share with us how rapidly TB can create teh kind of damage that this guy says happened to his fish, in the space of a day? I know I guessed that it can't, and logic would seem to suggest that - to me. I also said that I don't know. How would I. I've never met fish tb. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Proves what I always say... our pets do not always read the same information we do and sometimes do not realize they are supposed to be arch enemies. Hopefully, you've seen enough posts to be more assured that your fish likely DID NOT have Fish TB but if you are concerned, bring the dead fish to a veterinarian for proper diagnosis. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30095	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

My reply included the post that I was replying to which was about a cat and a betta that were best friends which is why I posted what I did. In answer to your current question, according to all of the things I've read about it, it takes quite a while before Fish TB becomes debilitating and deadly to the infected fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Lenny, maybe it would help if you share with us how rapidly TB can create teh kind of damage that this guy says happened to his fish, in the space of a day? I know I guessed that it can't, and logic would seem to suggest that - to me. I also said that I don't know. How would I. I've never met fish tb. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Proves what I always say... our pets do not always read the same information we do and sometimes do not realize they are supposed to be arch enemies. Hopefully, you've seen enough posts to be more assured that your fish likely DID NOT have Fish TB but if you are concerned, bring the dead fish to a veterinarian for proper diagnosis. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Messages in this topic _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 11:03:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30096	From: Wendie	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Changing the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a cat drink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drink from a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress to the fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drink might do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be very comfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Dora, She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood. No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass. I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank + Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die? Help!!!! Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency First of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a human with a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection, but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. In humans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. I think that it doesn't look much different from other skin infections acquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped and inflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treated with anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank and using antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands well may do the trick. But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TB the next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened other ways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after it died. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up on something and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let's figure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > Dear Lenny + Friends, > > Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. > > Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female > bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it > looked like she had internal bleeding. > > From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally > FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. > > She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost > Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female > Bettas, & 1 Gourami. > > I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. > What can I do to prevent this? > > Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should > I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? > > Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the > contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid > that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a > toddler and that's what they do. > > Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! > > Sincerely worried sick, > Tania > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30097	From: Wendie	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Fish tb is not an overnight killer. It's a slow death, not a fast one. It's more likely that something else killed the fish. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency One thing - he said that the fish was fine one day and dead the next with a big hole in it and a deformed spine. I saw your comments that other things could have happened to the fish, and I too think that other things could have happened to the fish. But the concern rests on one logical grounds. Is it possible for TB to develop, create a large open sore and a bent spine, and kill the fish, in a single day, if the fish was fine the day before? I kind of doubt it, but I don't really know. Maybe the plague could move that fast. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Ooops.. one other thing. The curved spine can also be caused by an electrical shock and I think it's also a sign of NTD (Neon Tetra Disease) so don't jump to conclusions of it being Fish TB. If you are really concerned and it appears you are, you should bring the dead fish to a veterinarian to be properly diagnosed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding. From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami. I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. What can I do to prevent this? Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do. Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! Sincerely worried sick, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 3:16:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:19:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30098	From: pam andress	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: wendieo@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-)Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@...----- Original Message -----From: <bubuci@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30099	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

One of my cats used to drink out of the tank...until I removed the cover one day. She fell in. She is not as interested in the tanks anymore. -Mike I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. Pam ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30100	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Cover the tanks? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:41 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : wendieo@... <mailto:wendieo%40optonline.netDate> : Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-)Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> : Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... <mailto:TXtiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message -----From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> >To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 12:06:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30101	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

The quick scans I did of several articles yesterday indicated the fish TB is something a fish can have without symptoms for months or years before symptoms show. Then, it can still be some time before the decline of health sets in. The period of decline can last for quite some time as well, and eventual death is not an overnight process. That a fish should die from TB without indications of this disease would seem highly unlikely. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency One thing - he said that the fish was fine one day and dead the next with a big hole in it and a deformed spine. I saw your comments that other things could have happened to the fish, and I too think that other things could have happened to the fish. But the concern rests on one logical grounds. Is it possible for TB to develop, create a large open sore and a bent spine, and kill the fish, in a single day, if the fish was fine the day before? I kind of doubt it, but I don't really know. Maybe the plague could move that fast. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Ooops.. one other thing. The curved spine can also be caused by an electrical shock and I think it's also a sign of NTD (Neon Tetra Disease) so don't jump to conclusions of it being Fish TB. If you are really concerned and it appears you are, you should bring the dead fish to a veterinarian to be properly diagnosed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding. From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami. I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. What can I do to prevent this? Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do. Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! Sincerely worried sick, Tania

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30102	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

I thought I read that it’s possible to be infected with salmonella somehow from fish tanks? If I recall they cautioned about the practice about starting siphons with your mouth in case you get a bit if water. In any case, it’s easy to cover the tank and helps prevent evaporation, jumper deaths, and contamination from getting into your tanks. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:41 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. Pam To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom: wendieo@optonline. <mailto:wendieo%40optonline.netDate> netDate: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-)Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> ry.netSent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@ <mailto:TXtiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com----- Original Message -----From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net>To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30103	From: Margie	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

And I would think in the tank. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from Wendie <wendieo@...>: -------------- Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in > the animal. > Wendie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > Changing the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a cat > drink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drink > from a fish tank. > > They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress to > the fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drink > might do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be very > comfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bubuci@... > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > Dear Dora, > > She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood. > No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass. > > I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank + > Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die? > > Help!!!! > > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Dora Smith" > > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35 > To: > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > First of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a human > with a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection, > but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. In > humans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. I > think that it doesn't look much different from other skin infections > acquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped and > inflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treated > with anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank and > using antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands well > may do the trick. > > But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TB > the next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened other > ways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after it > died. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up on > something and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let's > figure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > Dear Lenny + Friends, > > > > Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. > > > > Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female > > bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it > > looked like she had internal bleeding. > > > > From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally > > FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. > > > > She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost > > Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female > > Bettas, & 1 Gourami. > > > > I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. > > What can I do to prevent this? > > > > Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should > > I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? > > > > Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the > > contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid > > that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a > > toddler and that's what they do. > > > > Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! > > > > Sincerely worried sick, > > Tania > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 > Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30104	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: PH cures

Ok, for years I've used pure baking soda to raise the PH, is there a reliable home method to lower PH that anyone uses? Chris in VA (who hates using unnatural chemicals unless truly necessary)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30105	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks

I used to have a cat that would do that until some of the fish decided enough was enough and started nibbling his toes and scared him off! Both of my canines (Samoyed and Great Dane) will "guard" the tanks, I had a koi get rambuctious when I was cleaning the tank and stepped away for a sec to grab the phone, the koi jumped out and both dogs started barking like crazy at it knowing it belonged in the tank not on the floor. Goofy fish was tossed back in after a quick salty water rinse but both girls are on "alert" everytime I step near one of the tanks. Heaven forbid, one of those "terrorist fish" might make a break for it - LOL Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: wendieo@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 - 0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > > > Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30106	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Unidentified fish under new photos

OMG! The Cichlasoma labiatum could be a twin in the first picture!!! Hooray, I think that fish is effectively id'ed, now to work on the other two! :D Chris from VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Could be yours! Here's Mongabay's profile on them which gives detailed > features in the "Physical Description" section, to verify. They say > labiatuM instead of labiatuS but the scientific names do change from time to > time for various reasons. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_labiatum.html > > There is also the Midas Cichlid that is also called a Red Devil which is why > it's good to get away from common names for cichlids. They look similar so > some stores might sell these as "Red Devils" and other stores may sell the > A. Labiatum/s as "Red Devils"... or they might have another species > mis-named. LOL http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_citrinellus.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:58 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Unidentified fish under new photos > > Ok, as I have been researching I think I may have an idea on the large > yellow fish that I thought was a cichlid but wasn't really sure. > According the fish profiles site, it may be a large Amphilophus labiatus or > a Red Devil Cichlid. > > What do you folks think? > > Chris in VA > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 > Tested on: 9/18/2008 12:11:06 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30107	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for freshwater

On the new tank I have there is some hard water buildup I had not thought to use white vinegar. If some were to get into the tank would it hurt the water quality, fish, or PH? It's on the 125g Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > White vinegar will loosen the hard water and salt buildup. Then rinse. A > second treatment may be needed and you can turn the tank on it's four sides > and use a sponge soaked in vinegar to sit on top of any heavy buildup to > saturate the buildup with vinegar. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of vivian bradish > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for > freshwater > > My friend is getting a bigger tank and giving me his old one. It is a > saltwater and I will be using it for freshwater. What is the best thing to > clean it with to remove the salt? > > Thanks > > Vivian > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 > Tested on: 9/18/2008 10:05:27 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30108	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks

I just can't seem to keep the Cat + Bird (Parrotlet- smallest Parrot in Captivity) away from this one lidless tank. Kitty is very docile and she loves to watch the fish all day long, as well as drink from the water cascading from the filters. I've never seen her try to go fishing. Birdie takes baths in the same cascades from the filters. Even though I take her in the shower with me almost daily, she loves water. I've been shooing her away from the lidless Tank, but she's persistent. My Husband is a furniture designer + artist. He made it, its a Coffee table tank. Its designed to not have a lid and a lid would kill the art factor of the table. Plus, since its custom made, there are no lids for it. I really hope that they will be ok. Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Chris Owens" <chris_o_p@...> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:50:54 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks I used to have a cat that would do that until some of the fish decided enough was enough and started nibbling his toes and scared him off! Both of my canines (Samoyed and Great Dane) will "guard" the tanks, I had a koi get rambuctious when I was cleaning the tank and stepped away for a sec to grab the phone, the koi jumped out and both dogs started barking like crazy at it knowing it belonged in the tank not on the floor. Goofy fish was tossed back in after a quick salty water rinse but both girls are on "alert" everytime I step near one of the tanks. Heaven forbid, one of those "terrorist fish" might make a break for it - LOL Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: wendieo@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 - 0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > > > Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>>_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30109	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

I disposed of the infected fish so I won't be able to have it checked for Fish TB or Salmonella. Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 06:28:22 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency I thought I read that it�s possible to be infected with salmonella somehow from fish tanks? If I recall they cautioned about the practice about starting siphons with your mouth in case you get a bit if water. In any case, it�s easy to cover the tank and helps prevent evaporation, jumper deaths, and contamination from getting into your tanks. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:41 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. Pam To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom: wendieo@optonline. <mailto:wendieo%40optonline.netDate> netDate: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-)Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> ry.netSent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@ <mailto:TXtiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com----- Original Message -----From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net>To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>>_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30110	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

I read that symptoms may go unnoticed since it attacks internally and a fish that may seem fine one day, may not be the next. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:51:25 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency The quick scans I did of several articles yesterday indicated the fish TB is something a fish can have without symptoms for months or years before symptoms show. Then, it can still be some time before the decline of health sets in. The period of decline can last for quite some time as well, and eventual death is not an overnight process. That a fish should die from TB without indications of this disease would seem highly unlikely. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency One thing - he said that the fish was fine one day and dead the next with a big hole in it and a deformed spine. I saw your comments that other things could have happened to the fish, and I too think that other things could have happened to the fish. But the concern rests on one logical grounds. Is it possible for TB to develop, create a large open sore and a bent spine, and kill the fish, in a single day, if the fish was fine the day before? I kind of doubt it, but I don't really know. Maybe the plague could move that fast. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Ooops.. one other thing. The curved spine can also be caused by an electrical shock and I think it's also a sign of NTD (Neon Tetra Disease) so don't jump to conclusions of it being Fish TB. If you are really concerned and it appears you are, you should bring the dead fish to a veterinarian to be properly diagnosed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding. From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami. I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. What can I do to prevent this? Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do. Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! Sincerely worried sick, Tania [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30111	From: Voodoo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Freshwater jellyfish

has anyone heard of successful keeping of freshwater jellies (Craspedacusta) in aquaria? thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30112	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Would be wise, but aint gonna happen, my Husband won't make a lid, would kill the beauty of it. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:06:40 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Cover the tanks? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:41 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : wendieo@... <mailto:wendieo%40optonline.netDate> : Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-)Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> : Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... <mailto:TXtiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message -----From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> >To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 12:06:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30113	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Lol, my toddler tried to push our cat in, but she still comes around. He got her legs in, it was cute! She might take off if she sees him coming at her though! Lol Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 01:02:57 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency One of my cats used to drink out of the tank...until I removed the cover one day. She fell in. She is not as interested in the tanks anymore. -Mike I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. Pam ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30114	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Wendy, Agreed, I will try to keep them away whenever possible and cross my fingers. Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Wendie <wendieo@...> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Changing the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a cat drink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drink from a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress to the fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drink might do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be very comfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Dora, She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood. No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass. I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank + Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die? Help!!!! Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency First of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a human with a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection, but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. In humans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. I think that it doesn't look much different from other skin infections acquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped and inflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treated with anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank and using antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands well may do the trick. But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TB the next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened other ways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after it died. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up on something and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let's figure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > Dear Lenny + Friends, > > Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. > > Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female > bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it > looked like she had internal bleeding. > > From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally > FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. > > She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost > Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female > Bettas, & 1 Gourami. > > I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. > What can I do to prevent this? > > Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should > I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? > > Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the > contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid > that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a > toddler and that's what they do. > > Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! > > Sincerely worried sick, > Tania > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30115	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

What are the signs of Neon Tetra disease? None of them died except, wait! One baby Neon Tetra did disappear from that tank a few days ago. I didn't find it so I assumed it got eaten. Maybe that Betta ate it and the tetra was possibly ill with something? Just a guess! I dunno? Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:19:41 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Ooops.. one other thing. The curved spine can also be caused by an electrical shock and I think it's also a sign of NTD (Neon Tetra Disease) so don't jump to conclusions of it being Fish TB. If you are really concerned and it appears you are, you should bring the dead fish to a veterinarian to be properly diagnosed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding. From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami. I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. What can I do to prevent this? Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do. Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! Sincerely worried sick, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 3:16:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:19:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30116	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Lenny + Friends, Thank you all so much for your support and info. Lenny, this link won't work for me. I'm very interested in it. Thanks Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:17:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Just so happens I was just reading a nice thread about Fish TB started and commented on by Diana Walstad (noted fish keeper and author). Maybe it has some info you haven't seen elsewhere. Diana seems to have successfully fought back against Fish TB infestation in her own tank(s). http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/47682-my-talk-present ation-fish-tb-disease.html Remember to call it Fish TB, not just TB as the Human TB is a completely different pathogen. Fish TB is contagious to humans but it doesn't become Human Tuberculosis. I don't think it's very contagious though as Fish TB seems to be fairly common in the industry but I never see anyone posting that they actually came down with it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding. From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami. I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. What can I do to prevent this? Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do. Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! Sincerely worried sick, Tania _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:17:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30117	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Fish TB facts: " symptoms:�� Affected fish will start deteriorating for no apparent reasons, losing weight (or not), showing deformities (or not), having raised scales (or not), fin and body rot (or not), gray lesions (or not), red patches inside the belly (or not). Sometimes they will seem fine one day and be oh so very DEAD the next. The one thing all the bettas affected by this terrible diseases have in common is that they will all (as in every single last one of them) die. So if you suddenly find a large number of dead fish in your tanks, and more die each day, there is a strong possibility you might be at war with fish tuberculosis (careful though, other bacterial infections can also have similar dramatic death rates). treatment:� I am sorry to break the news to you but you will NOT win that war because there is NO cure. Furthermore you will probably have to throw away all bowl, tank and fish gear because regular bleach does not kill this nasty bug. My advice? Stay away from live food and from sickly looking pet store bettas and as I said select your fish suppliers carefully. Oh, and do a lot of praying ;). � AQUARTICLES�COM Home <http://www.aquarticles.com/index.html> " Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:51:25 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency The quick scans I did of several articles yesterday indicated the fish TB is something a fish can have without symptoms for months or years before symptoms show. Then, it can still be some time before the decline of health sets in. The period of decline can last for quite some time as well, and eventual death is not an overnight process. That a fish should die from TB without indications of this disease would seem highly unlikely. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency One thing - he said that the fish was fine one day and dead the next with a big hole in it and a deformed spine. I saw your comments that other things could have happened to the fish, and I too think that other things could have happened to the fish. But the concern rests on one logical grounds. Is it possible for TB to develop, create a large open sore and a bent spine, and kill the fish, in a single day, if the fish was fine the day before? I kind of doubt it, but I don't really know. Maybe the plague could move that fast. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Ooops.. one other thing. The curved spine can also be caused by an electrical shock and I think it's also a sign of NTD (Neon Tetra Disease) so don't jump to conclusions of it being Fish TB. If you are really concerned and it appears you are, you should bring the dead fish to a veterinarian to be properly diagnosed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding. From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami. I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. What can I do to prevent this? Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do. Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! Sincerely worried sick, Tania [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30118	From: Alina	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter pump

Hi I'm setting up a 10-gallon tank for a Kindergarten class in Vero Beach. I'm looking for a gently used donated pump, or ideas about where I might find one and a tank cover cheap. I've inherited a tank that has seen better days, only has some rock, and I'm already purchasing everything else. If any of the big pet stores offer some sort of school or PTA discounts that you know of, let me know and I'll get to it. Thanks for any help. Feel free to email me privately. Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30119	From: Wendie	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks

Years ago I had a Siamese cat who constantly watched the tank which contained George, my rather large 12 inch Oscar. George was trained to jump for his food. Well she looked into the tank one day when the cover was off ... that ended her dreams of a fish dinner. He came up out of the water like a shot! Amazing fish. You could line up 5 cans of fish food in front of him and then touch each one. He'd never react until you touched the can his food was in. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Owens To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 7:50 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks I used to have a cat that would do that until some of the fish decided enough was enough and started nibbling his toes and scared him off! Both of my canines (Samoyed and Great Dane) will "guard" the tanks, I had a koi get rambuctious when I was cleaning the tank and stepped away for a sec to grab the phone, the koi jumped out and both dogs started barking like crazy at it knowing it belonged in the tank not on the floor. Goofy fish was tossed back in after a quick salty water rinse but both girls are on "alert" everytime I step near one of the tanks. Heaven forbid, one of those "terrorist fish" might make a break for it - LOL Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: wendieo@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 - 0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > > > Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30120	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks

Now you have a name for your pond... Guantanamo Bay! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 6:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks I used to have a cat that would do that until some of the fish decided enough was enough and started nibbling his toes and scared him off! Both of my canines (Samoyed and Great Dane) will "guard" the tanks, I had a koi get rambuctious when I was cleaning the tank and stepped away for a sec to grab the phone, the koi jumped out and both dogs started barking like crazy at it knowing it belonged in the tank not on the floor. Goofy fish was tossed back in after a quick salty water rinse but both girls are on "alert" everytime I step near one of the tanks. Heaven forbid, one of those "terrorist fish" might make a break for it - LOL Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: wendieo@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 - 0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > > > Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 7:13:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:07:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures

Why do you want to lower you pH? Your cichlids.. well, at least the one we've identified so far, does well in a broad range of pH levels. Unless your baseline pH is above 8.0, I wouldn't worry about lowering it. The pH level in a tank will ALWAYS go down from your baseline due to the ecology of the tank... unless there is something in the tank leaching hardness or buffers into the water. To answer your question, yes there are natural safer ways to lower pH rather than dumping chemicals into a tank. Driftwood will slowly lower it and is a "natural" decoration for tanks. Peat Moss will lower it more quickly but can be controlled by putting the peat moss in a media bag and putting it in your filter reservoir for faster action or just hiding the media bag behind a decoration for slower action. There are other natural ways but those two are simplest. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH cures Ok, for years I've used pure baking soda to raise the PH, is there a reliable home method to lower PH that anyone uses? Chris in VA (who hates using unnatural chemicals unless truly necessary) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:14:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30122	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for freshwater

If you use vinegar on a rag so that it's not dripping, you can use that to wipe above the water line to remove the hard water buildup. If you do this when doing a normal weekly PWC, the water line will be eve lower, making this easier to do. Do not worry about any possible residual vinegar. While vinegar has been used by some fish keepers as a way to lower the pH, I don't think it's highly recommended but the very slight amount of any possible residual vinegar that might be left on the glass would not affect the pH or harm the tank. It would take many, many ounces of vinegar in a 125G tank to even remotely affect the pH so some residual micro-droplets left on the glass will not affect the pH. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 6:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for freshwater On the new tank I have there is some hard water buildup I had not thought to use white vinegar. If some were to get into the tank would it hurt the water quality, fish, or PH? It's on the 125g Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > White vinegar will loosen the hard water and salt buildup. Then rinse. A > second treatment may be needed and you can turn the tank on it's four sides > and use a sponge soaked in vinegar to sit on top of any heavy buildup to > saturate the buildup with vinegar. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of vivian bradish > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning of saltwater tank to make it safe for > freshwater > > My friend is getting a bigger tank and giving me his old one. It is a > saltwater and I will be using it for freshwater. What is the best thing to > clean it with to remove the salt? > > Thanks > > Vivian > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:24:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30123	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

I've never seen any postings about Fish TB causing death without many other illness symptoms first. If you can post a link to the article, it would be better so we could vet the author. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency I read that symptoms may go unnoticed since it attacks internally and a fish that may seem fine one day, may not be the next. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:51:25 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency The quick scans I did of several articles yesterday indicated the fish TB is something a fish can have without symptoms for months or years before symptoms show. Then, it can still be some time before the decline of health sets in. The period of decline can last for quite some time as well, and eventual death is not an overnight process. That a fish should die from TB without indications of this disease would seem highly unlikely. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency One thing - he said that the fish was fine one day and dead the next with a big hole in it and a deformed spine. I saw your comments that other things could have happened to the fish, and I too think that other things could have happened to the fish. But the concern rests on one logical grounds. Is it possible for TB to develop, create a large open sore and a bent spine, and kill the fish, in a single day, if the fish was fine the day before? I kind of doubt it, but I don't really know. Maybe the plague could move that fast. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Ooops.. one other thing. The curved spine can also be caused by an electrical shock and I think it's also a sign of NTD (Neon Tetra Disease) so don't jump to conclusions of it being Fish TB. If you are really concerned and it appears you are, you should bring the dead fish to a veterinarian to be properly diagnosed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding. From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami. I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. What can I do to prevent this? Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do. Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! Sincerely worried sick, Tania [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 8:55:04 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:25:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30124	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks

How is it a table without a lid? I've seen acrylic "Coffee Table" tanks but the tank was the base of the coffee table and then the lid was the coffee table top. http://www.tropicalfishstore.com/aquaticfurniture.htm I'm not sure they are recommended for high traffic areas, or maybe not at all, as it's probably not a good thing for the fish to have people clunking things down on their home all the time. After all, we are dissuaded from even tapping on the glass of a tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks I just can't seem to keep the Cat + Bird (Parrotlet- smallest Parrot in Captivity) away from this one lidless tank. Kitty is very docile and she loves to watch the fish all day long, as well as drink from the water cascading from the filters. I've never seen her try to go fishing. Birdie takes baths in the same cascades from the filters. Even though I take her in the shower with me almost daily, she loves water. I've been shooing her away from the lidless Tank, but she's persistent. My Husband is a furniture designer + artist. He made it, its a Coffee table tank. Its designed to not have a lid and a lid would kill the art factor of the table. Plus, since its custom made, there are no lids for it. I really hope that they will be ok. Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Chris Owens" <chris_o_p@... <mailto:chris_o_p%40yahoo.com> > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:50:54 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks I used to have a cat that would do that until some of the fish decided enough was enough and started nibbling his toes and scared him off! Both of my canines (Samoyed and Great Dane) will "guard" the tanks, I had a koi get rambuctious when I was cleaning the tank and stepped away for a sec to grab the phone, the koi jumped out and both dogs started barking like crazy at it knowing it belonged in the tank not on the floor. Goofy fish was tossed back in after a quick salty water rinse but both girls are on "alert" everytime I step near one of the tanks. Heaven forbid, one of those "terrorist fish" might make a break for it - LOL Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: wendieo@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 - 0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > > > Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>>_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 8:55:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:32:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30125	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Try this TinyURL instead. Yahoo Groups often breaks long links so you would have to copy/paste the link and remove the line breaks to make it work manually. http://tinyurl.com/4xqtqs Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Lenny + Friends, Thank you all so much for your support and info. Lenny, this link won't work for me. I'm very interested in it. Thanks Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:17:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Just so happens I was just reading a nice thread about Fish TB started and commented on by Diana Walstad (noted fish keeper and author). Maybe it has some info you haven't seen elsewhere. Diana seems to have successfully fought back against Fish TB infestation in her own tank(s). http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/47682-my-talk-present <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/47682-my-talk-presen t> ation-fish-tb-disease.html Remember to call it Fish TB, not just TB as the Human TB is a completely different pathogen. Fish TB is contagious to humans but it doesn't become Human Tuberculosis. I don't think it's very contagious though as Fish TB seems to be fairly common in the industry but I never see anyone posting that they actually came down with it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding. From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami. I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. What can I do to prevent this? Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do. Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! Sincerely worried sick, Tania _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:17:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 8:55:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:40:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30126	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter

Have you checked your local FreeCycle.org group? I see 10G tanks (entire setups) on a regular basis. Also, send a note home pinned to all your kids. Maybe one of the parents has a 10G setup sitting in the attic or garage. If you shop at PetsMart, ALWAYS go to their website first and print the page/price of items you are interested in. The local stores will match the online price if you have the page. I save 30-50% off the shelf price this way. PetCo will not do this. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 7:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter pump Hi I'm setting up a 10-gallon tank for a Kindergarten class in Vero Beach. I'm looking for a gently used donated pump, or ideas about where I might find one and a tank cover cheap. I've inherited a tank that has seen better days, only has some rock, and I'm already purchasing everything else. If any of the big pet stores offer some sort of school or PTA discounts that you know of, let me know and I'll get to it. Thanks for any help. Feel free to email me privately. Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:44:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30127	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Tania, Can you give us the link to that article? How old is the article? For the author to say there is NO cure... well that simply may not be accurate information if the article is more than a few years old. I gave you the link to the Diana Walstad (fish keeper and noted author) forum thread where she is fighting off a bad infestation of fish TB in her tanks. You did post a link to Aquarticles.com but not the link to the article you copy/pasted from. I'm not sure how well Aquarticles vets their authors and like anything else read on the internet, it should be personally vetted for accuracy... heck, not just on the internet... even the mainstream media where some anchorMEN on some network news channels "get tingles up and down their legs" when certain presidential candidates speak. I certainly wouldn't trust their objectiveness or honesty any longer. I also know that Wikipedia can be a good place to start but NEVER rely solely on info from Wikipedia as netizen authors can substantially change an article, including filling it with lies and the article might stay on the net for days or weeks before others correct the article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Fish TB facts: " symptoms: Affected fish will start deteriorating for no apparent reasons, losing weight (or not), showing deformities (or not), having raised scales (or not), fin and body rot (or not), gray lesions (or not), red patches inside the belly (or not). Sometimes they will seem fine one day and be oh so very DEAD the next. The one thing all the bettas affected by this terrible diseases have in common is that they will all (as in every single last one of them) die. So if you suddenly find a large number of dead fish in your tanks, and more die each day, there is a strong possibility you might be at war with fish tuberculosis (careful though, other bacterial infections can also have similar dramatic death rates). treatment: I am sorry to break the news to you but you will NOT win that war because there is NO cure. Furthermore you will probably have to throw away all bowl, tank and fish gear because regular bleach does not kill this nasty bug. My advice? Stay away from live food and from sickly looking pet store bettas and as I said select your fish suppliers carefully. Oh, and do a lot of praying ;). AQUARTICLESCOM Home <http://www.aquarticles.com/index.html <http://www.aquarticles.com/index.html <http://www.aquarticles.com/index.html> > > " Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:51:25 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency The quick scans I did of several articles yesterday indicated the fish TB is something a fish can have without symptoms for months or years before symptoms show. Then, it can still be some time before the decline of health sets in. The period of decline can last for quite some time as well, and eventual death is not an overnight process. That a fish should die from TB without indications of this disease would seem highly unlikely. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency One thing - he said that the fish was fine one day and dead the next with a big hole in it and a deformed spine. I saw your comments that other things could have happened to the fish, and I too think that other things could have happened to the fish. But the concern rests on one logical grounds. Is it possible for TB to develop, create a large open sore and a bent spine, and kill the fish, in a single day, if the fish was fine the day before? I kind of doubt it, but I don't really know. Maybe the plague could move that fast. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Ooops.. one other thing. The curved spine can also be caused by an electrical shock and I think it's also a sign of NTD (Neon Tetra Disease) so don't jump to conclusions of it being Fish TB. If you are really concerned and it appears you are, you should bring the dead fish to a veterinarian to be properly diagnosed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Dear Lenny + Friends, Hello + thanks in advance for your replies. Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it looked like she had internal bleeding. From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish. She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female Bettas, & 1 Gourami. I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish. What can I do to prevent this? Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something? Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a toddler and that's what they do. Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!! Sincerely worried sick, Tania [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:05:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:53:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30128	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: 10 ugly fish

I just can't can't CAN'T believe hagfish did not make this list. Not only are they physically bordering on the offensive (I'm sure pictures of them are banned from girl's schools in Moslem countries) to look at, they produce copious amounts of snotty slime, thus the other common name "slime eel" so they are hideous in a number of ways. Also, they enter dead things to eat through any orifice, so fisherman who have seen these things have a righteous horror of being lost or buried at sea. I love almost every kind of animal, even commonly disliked ones such as rats, did not mind the "eek" sea louse pictures at all, but hagfish are the most disgusting things in the sea.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30129	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures

Right now I don't, it's rather solidly at 7.8, however that doesn't mean that in the future I may not need to.  I'd prefer to be a bit more prepared!  :D   Chris in VA --- On Fri, 9/19/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH cures To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 10:14 AM Why do you want to lower you pH? Your cichlids.. well, at least the one we've identified so far, does well in a broad range of pH levels. Unless your baseline pH is above 8.0, I wouldn't worry about lowering it. The pH level in a tank will ALWAYS go down from your baseline due to the ecology of the tank... unless there is something in the tank leaching hardness or buffers into the water. To answer your question, yes there are natural safer ways to lower pH rather than dumping chemicals into a tank. Driftwood will slowly lower it and is a "natural" decoration for tanks. Peat Moss will lower it more quickly but can be controlled by putting the peat moss in a media bag and putting it in your filter reservoir for faster action or just hiding the media bag behind a decoration for slower action. There are other natural ways but those two are simplest. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH cures Ok, for years I've used pure baking soda to raise the PH, is there a reliable home method to lower PH that anyone uses? Chris in VA (who hates using unnatural chemicals unless truly necessary) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:14:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30130	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks

Oh I don't know, I was was going for a more oriental theme rather than a terriorist type theme... --- On Fri, 9/19/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 10:07 AM Now you have a name for your pond... Guantanamo Bay! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 6:51 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks I used to have a cat that would do that until some of the fish decided enough was enough and started nibbling his toes and scared him off! Both of my canines (Samoyed and Great Dane) will "guard" the tanks, I had a koi get rambuctious when I was cleaning the tank and stepped away for a sec to grab the phone, the koi jumped out and both dogs started barking like crazy at it knowing it belonged in the tank not on the floor. Goofy fish was tossed back in after a quick salty water rinse but both girls are on "alert" everytime I step near one of the tanks. Heaven forbid, one of those "terrorist fish" might make a break for it - LOL Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , pam andress <pamandress23@ ...> wrote: > > > I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@ ...: wendieo@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 - 0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > > > Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie- ---- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)----- Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@ ...: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!! TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@ ... Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non- text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 7:13:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:07:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30131	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks

Its custom made, its the size of a dinner table, with the height of a Coffee table. Its a table with a Moat full of fish, I will try to get a nice photo of it for you all to check out. Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:32:06 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks How is it a table without a lid? I've seen acrylic "Coffee Table" tanks but the tank was the base of the coffee table and then the lid was the coffee table top. http://www.tropicalfishstore.com/aquaticfurniture.htm I'm not sure they are recommended for high traffic areas, or maybe not at all, as it's probably not a good thing for the fish to have people clunking things down on their home all the time. After all, we are dissuaded from even tapping on the glass of a tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks I just can't seem to keep the Cat + Bird (Parrotlet- smallest Parrot in Captivity) away from this one lidless tank. Kitty is very docile and she loves to watch the fish all day long, as well as drink from the water cascading from the filters. I've never seen her try to go fishing. Birdie takes baths in the same cascades from the filters. Even though I take her in the shower with me almost daily, she loves water. I've been shooing her away from the lidless Tank, but she's persistent. My Husband is a furniture designer + artist. He made it, its a Coffee table tank. Its designed to not have a lid and a lid would kill the art factor of the table. Plus, since its custom made, there are no lids for it. I really hope that they will be ok. Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Chris Owens" <chris_o_p@... <mailto:chris_o_p%40yahoo.com> > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:50:54 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks I used to have a cat that would do that until some of the fish decided enough was enough and started nibbling his toes and scared him off! Both of my canines (Samoyed and Great Dane) will "guard" the tanks, I had a koi get rambuctious when I was cleaning the tank and stepped away for a sec to grab the phone, the koi jumped out and both dogs started barking like crazy at it knowing it belonged in the tank not on the floor. Goofy fish was tossed back in after a quick salty water rinse but both girls are on "alert" everytime I step near one of the tanks. Heaven forbid, one of those "terrorist fish" might make a break for it - LOL Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: wendieo@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 - 0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > > > Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>>_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 8:55:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:32:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30132	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater jellyfish

Do you mean hydras? Because they're a common freshwater jellyfish. I should think that if you put some in your aquarium some would survive. I don't know if they're bad for the fish or anything. I don't think they'll take over if you're water quality is good. I wonder if they eat diatoms? You can get them by collecting some water from local ponds or marshes and letting it stand. They're very small critters; come in clear and green, and possibly other colors. Google hydra. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Voodoo" <Pandion59@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:11 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Freshwater jellyfish has anyone heard of successful keeping of freshwater jellies (Craspedacusta) in aquaria? thanks ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30133	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures

Probably the 7.8 is a product of your local water supply and its buffering, Chris. If it doesn't vary don't worry about it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Owens-Polski" <chris_o_p@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH cures Right now I don't, it's rather solidly at 7.8, however that doesn't mean that in the future I may not need to. I'd prefer to be a bit more prepared! :D Chris in VA --- On Fri, 9/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30134	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks

That's funny. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Owens" <chris_o_p@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 6:50 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks I used to have a cat that would do that until some of the fish decided enough was enough and started nibbling his toes and scared him off!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30135	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks

Did he know which can contained which flavor? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendie" <wendieo@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks Years ago I had a Siamese cat who constantly watched the tank which contained George, my rather large 12 inch Oscar. George was trained to jump for his food. Well she looked into the tank one day when the cover was off ... that ended her dreams of a fish dinner. He came up out of the water like a shot! Amazing fish. You could line up 5 cans of fish food in front of him and then touch each one. He'd never react until you touched the can his food was in. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Owens To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 7:50 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks I used to have a cat that would do that until some of the fish decided enough was enough and started nibbling his toes and scared him off! Both of my canines (Samoyed and Great Dane) will "guard" the tanks, I had a koi get rambuctious when I was cleaning the tank and stepped away for a sec to grab the phone, the koi jumped out and both dogs started barking like crazy at it knowing it belonged in the tank not on the floor. Goofy fish was tossed back in after a quick salty water rinse but both girls are on "alert" everytime I step near one of the tanks. Heaven forbid, one of those "terrorist fish" might make a break for it - LOL Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: wendieo@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 - 0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > > > Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30136	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

That's what I thought. If fish really was fine the day before then something else happened - probably an acute injury. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency My reply included the post that I was replying to which was about a cat and a betta that were best friends which is why I posted what I did. In answer to your current question, according to all of the things I've read about it, it takes quite a while before Fish TB becomes debilitating and deadly to the infected fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Lenny, maybe it would help if you share with us how rapidly TB can create teh kind of damage that this guy says happened to his fish, in the space of a day? I know I guessed that it can't, and logic would seem to suggest that - to me. I also said that I don't know. How would I. I've never met fish tb. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Proves what I always say... our pets do not always read the same information we do and sometimes do not realize they are supposed to be arch enemies. Hopefully, you've seen enough posts to be more assured that your fish likely DID NOT have Fish TB but if you are concerned, bring the dead fish to a veterinarian for proper diagnosis. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Messages in this topic _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/18/2008 11:03:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30137	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

You all know that animals are way less susceptible to salmonella than people are. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 5:28 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency I thought I read that it's possible to be infected with salmonella somehow from fish tanks? If I recall they cautioned about the practice about starting siphons with your mouth in case you get a bit if water. In any case, it's easy to cover the tank and helps prevent evaporation, jumper deaths, and contamination from getting into your tanks. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:41 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. Pam To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom: wendieo@optonline. <mailto:wendieo%40optonline.netDate> netDate: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-)Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> ry.netSent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@ <mailto:TXtiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com----- Original Message -----From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> ry.net>To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30138	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

OK. Dig it out of the trash, and take it to the vet. Sounds like it is the only way you're going to stop worrying. Common sense says it wasn't TB, but that is the only way to know for sure. I'm just checking - you know, when I was between 8 and 10, I used to compulsively pick through each bite of food for five minutes for pieces of dirt or other reasons to worry that it might be deadly. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency I read that symptoms may go unnoticed since it attacks internally and a fish that may seem fine one day, may not be the next. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30139	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Obsessive compulsive disorder is a very common condition, fish people are a very odd bunch, and it sounds like the author of this site is a compulsive worrier. Thanks for finding it for us. :) The part that's improbable is actually a huge sore and a curved spine developing in a single day from fish TB. If a disease even caused this it was much faster moving than TB could be. I don't know if an abscess could do that. Could have existed before and when it came open you noticed. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Fish TB facts: " symptoms: Affected fish will start deteriorating for no apparent reasons, losing weight (or not), showing deformities (or not), having raised scales (or not), fin and body rot (or not), gray lesions (or not), red patches inside the belly (or not). Sometimes they will seem fine one day and be oh so very DEAD the next. The one thing all the bettas affected by this terrible diseases have in common is that they will all (as in every single last one of them) die. So if you suddenly find a large number of dead fish in your tanks, and more die each day, there is a strong possibility you might be at war with fish tuberculosis (careful though, other bacterial infections can also have similar dramatic death rates). treatment: I am sorry to break the news to you but you will NOT win that war because there is NO cure. Furthermore you will probably have to throw away all bowl, tank and fish gear because regular bleach does not kill this nasty bug. My advice? Stay away from live food and from sickly looking pet store bettas and as I said select your fish suppliers carefully. Oh, and do a lot of praying ;). AQUARTICLESCOM Home <http://www.aquarticles.com/index.html> " Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30140	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Well she did have the internal red patches in the beLly area and the open hole too. I think all the trash was taken out so no autopsy will happen unfortunately. I will try to find the exact links to the articles if I can. I think one was Bettatalk.com. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:26:31 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Obsessive compulsive disorder is a very common condition, fish people are a very odd bunch, and it sounds like the author of this site is a compulsive worrier. Thanks for finding it for us. :) The part that's improbable is actually a huge sore and a curved spine developing in a single day from fish TB. If a disease even caused this it was much faster moving than TB could be. I don't know if an abscess could do that. Could have existed before and when it came open you noticed. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Fish TB facts: " symptoms: Affected fish will start deteriorating for no apparent reasons, losing weight (or not), showing deformities (or not), having raised scales (or not), fin and body rot (or not), gray lesions (or not), red patches inside the belly (or not). Sometimes they will seem fine one day and be oh so very DEAD the next. The one thing all the bettas affected by this terrible diseases have in common is that they will all (as in every single last one of them) die. So if you suddenly find a large number of dead fish in your tanks, and more die each day, there is a strong possibility you might be at war with fish tuberculosis (careful though, other bacterial infections can also have similar dramatic death rates). treatment: I am sorry to break the news to you but you will NOT win that war because there is NO cure. Furthermore you will probably have to throw away all bowl, tank and fish gear because regular bleach does not kill this nasty bug. My advice? Stay away from live food and from sickly looking pet store bettas and as I said select your fish suppliers carefully. Oh, and do a lot of praying ;). AQUARTICLESCOM Home <http://www.aquarticles.com/index.html> " Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30141	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures

Pure, clean well water.  No additives, no chemicals.  :D   Chris in VA --- On Fri, 9/19/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PH cures To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 12:17 PM Probably the 7.8 is a product of your local water supply and its buffering, Chris. If it doesn't vary don't worry about it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Owens-Polski" <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH cures Right now I don't, it's rather solidly at 7.8, however that doesn't mean that in the future I may not need to. I'd prefer to be a bit more prepared! :D Chris in VA --- On Fri, 9/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30142	From: pam andress	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

They are covered. Pam Cover the tanks?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of thefish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. Shedoes not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that hasbirds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water andsuch. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. Mybirds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worryabout them taking a bath with the fishies.Pam Recent Activity 11 New Members 10 New PhotosVisit Your Group Sitebuilder Build a web site quickly & easily with Sitebuilder. Women of Curves on Yahoo! Groups see how women are changing their lives. Yahoo! Groups Join people over 40 who are finding ways to stay in shape. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30143	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter

Hi Alina, Just last Sunday I donated eight 10 gallon tanks with hoods and filters to a school teacher who teaches on the Cherokee Indian Reservation here in North Carolina. I get them all the time on freecycle.org and tho they are too small for my operation, I enjoy giving them to teachers to use as teaching aids. I am a former middle school science teacher and know well how limited funds are for teaching aids for the classroom. I will keep you email address and will notify you when I get more filters. I am working with a lady who has closed a shop she had that has three large boxes of used filters and is figuring out a price for the entire lot. I recondition the filters and use several to make one good one. Grey ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: alambiet@... Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:27:33 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter pump Hi I'm setting up a 10-gallon tank for a Kindergarten class in Vero Beach. I'm looking for a gently used donated pump, or ideas about where I might find one and a tank cover cheap. I've inherited a tank that has seen better days, only has some rock, and I'm already purchasing everything else. If any of the big pet stores offer some sort of school or PTA discounts that you know of, let me know and I'll get to it. Thanks for any help. Feel free to email me privately. Alina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30144	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter

Hey Alina, Have you tried posting a want ad in Craigslist? I've seen requests like yours there recently. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Alina" <alambiet@...> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:27:33 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter pump Hi I'm setting up a 10-gallon tank for a Kindergarten class in Vero Beach. I'm looking for a gently used donated pump, or ideas about where I might find one and a tank cover cheap. I've inherited a tank that has seen better days, only has some rock, and I'm already purchasing everything else. If any of the big pet stores offer some sort of school or PTA discounts that you know of, let me know and I'll get to it. Thanks for any help. Feel free to email me privately. Alina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30145	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures

Your Koi Pond will need the higher pH and that pH is fine for your cichlids especially since it will come down a bit once your tank's ecology starts working full steam. All of the life forms from bacteria on up will utilize the KH and GH in the water which will constantly lower the pH. Doing PWC's is what keeps the pH up so it doesn't crash. Have you did the tap/source water baseline tests to see what your GH, KH and pH will be out the tap before the tank/pond's ecology gets hold of it? See my blog article on "Establishing your tap/source water baseline" Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 10:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH cures Right now I don't, it's rather solidly at 7.8, however that doesn't mean that in the future I may not need to. I'd prefer to be a bit more prepared! :D Chris in VA --- On Fri, 9/19/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH cures To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 10:14 AM Why do you want to lower you pH? Your cichlids.. well, at least the one we've identified so far, does well in a broad range of pH levels. Unless your baseline pH is above 8.0, I wouldn't worry about lowering it. The pH level in a tank will ALWAYS go down from your baseline due to the ecology of the tank... unless there is something in the tank leaching hardness or buffers into the water. To answer your question, yes there are natural safer ways to lower pH rather than dumping chemicals into a tank. Driftwood will slowly lower it and is a "natural" decoration for tanks. Peat Moss will lower it more quickly but can be controlled by putting the peat moss in a media bag and putting it in your filter reservoir for faster action or just hiding the media bag behind a decoration for slower action. There are other natural ways but those two are simplest. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH cures Ok, for years I've used pure baking soda to raise the PH, is there a reliable home method to lower PH that anyone uses? Chris in VA (who hates using unnatural chemicals unless truly necessary) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 9:14:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 10:26:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 1:00:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30146	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

For persistant cat problems we use a squirt bottle. Once the cat understands where the water came from all you have to do is pick up the squirt bottle and the cat will stop, well while you are watching anyway :) -Mike Lol, my toddler tried to push our cat in, but she still comes around. He got her legs in, it was cute! She might take off if she sees him coming at her though! Lol Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 6:13 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Lol, my toddler tried to push our cat in, but she still comes around. He got her legs in, it was cute! She might take off if she sees him coming at her though! Lol Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 01:02:57 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency One of my cats used to drink out of the tank...until I removed the cover one day. She fell in. She is not as interested in the tanks anymore. -Mike ? Messages in this topic (27)? Recent Activity 11 New Members 10 New Photos Visit Your Group Sitebuilder Build a web site quickly & easily with Sitebuilder. Everyday Wellness on Yahoo! Groups Find groups that will help you stay fit. All-Bran 10 Day Challenge Join the club and feel the benefits. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures

Well.... there are additives and chemicals but they're added by God, not the dude at the utility plant. LOL It's still good to do a baseline test. I've seen wells where the CO2 levels are high coming right out so that gives a low pH level until the CO2 outgases out the water in 24-48 hours, then the pH will go up. Depending on the water source, it could be passing through limestone beds, etc., which are adding buffers and hardness to the water. It's best to do the tests! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PH cures Pure, clean well water. No additives, no chemicals. :D Chris in VA --- On Fri, 9/19/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PH cures To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 12:17 PM Probably the 7.8 is a product of your local water supply and its buffering, Chris. If it doesn't vary don't worry about it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Owens-Polski" <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH cures Right now I don't, it's rather solidly at 7.8, however that doesn't mean that in the future I may not need to. I'd prefer to be a bit more prepared! :D Chris in VA --- On Fri, 9/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 1:24:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30148	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Mike! A Squirt gun! Hahaha! Sounds like fun! I just feel bad for her, she just loves looking at those fish! Lol Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:14:27 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency For persistant cat problems we use a squirt bottle. Once the cat understands where the water came from all you have to do is pick up the squirt bottle and the cat will stop, well while you are watching anyway :) -Mike Lol, my toddler tried to push our cat in, but she still comes around. He got her legs in, it was cute! She might take off if she sees him coming at her though! Lol Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 6:13 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Lol, my toddler tried to push our cat in, but she still comes around. He got her legs in, it was cute! She might take off if she sees him coming at her though! Lol Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 01:02:57 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency One of my cats used to drink out of the tank...until I removed the cover one day. She fell in. She is not as interested in the tanks anymore. -Mike ? Messages in this topic (27)? Recent Activity 11 New Members 10 New Photos Visit Your Group Sitebuilder Build a web site quickly & easily with Sitebuilder. Everyday Wellness on Yahoo! Groups Find groups that will help you stay fit. All-Bran 10 Day Challenge Join the club and feel the benefits. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30149	From: laraandgirls	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area

Hello, My name is Lara & I'm new here. But what I was wondering is if anyone lives in Greensburg PA and wants to have 7 African cichlids? Thank's Lara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30150	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: 10 ugly fish

I spent a semster in London and the local markets could have easily filled the ten ugliest fish list. I used to say to myself when I went shopping, "Let's go check out the ugly fish of the day". Ugly nasty disgusting, blech! Although I do think the parrotfish on that list should have been second. I have four small Real Parrot fish at home now that I am growing out. Pretty fish, no need for hybridization. -Mike I just can't can't CAN'T believe hagfish did not make this list. Not only are they physically bordering on the offensive (I'm sure pictures of them are banned from girl's schools in Moslem countries) to look at, they produce copious amounts of snotty slime, thus the other common name "slime eel" so they are hideous in a number of ways. Also, they enter dead things to eat through any orifice, so fisherman who have seen these things have a righteous horror of being lost or buried at sea. I love almost every kind of animal, even commonly disliked ones such as rats, did not mind the "eek" sea louse pictures at all, but hagfish are the most disgusting things in the sea. -----Original Message----- From: Diana Brooks <diana_brooks@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 7:08 am Subject: [AquaticLife] 10 ugly fish I just can't can't CAN'T believe hagfish did not make this list. Not only are they physically bordering on the offensive (I'm sure pictures of them are banned from girl's schools i n Moslem countries) to look at, they produce copious amounts of snotty slime, thus the other common name "slime eel" so they are hideous in a number of ways. Also, they enter dead things to eat through any orifice, so fisherman who have seen these things have a righteous horror of being lost or buried at sea. I love almost every kind of animal, even commonly disliked ones such as rats, did not mind the "eek" sea louse pictures at all, but hagfish are the most disgusting things in the sea. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30151	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks

My sister has a coffee table tank.the glass top of the table is the lid. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 9:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks I just can't seem to keep the Cat + Bird (Parrotlet- smallest Parrot in Captivity) away from this one lidless tank. Kitty is very docile and she loves to watch the fish all day long, as well as drink from the water cascading from the filters. I've never seen her try to go fishing. Birdie takes baths in the same cascades from the filters. Even though I take her in the shower with me almost daily, she loves water. I've been shooing her away from the lidless Tank, but she's persistent. My Husband is a furniture designer + artist. He made it, its a Coffee table tank. Its designed to not have a lid and a lid would kill the art factor of the table. Plus, since its custom made, there are no lids for it. I really hope that they will be ok. Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Chris Owens" <chris_o_p@yahoo. <mailto:chris_o_p%40yahoo.com> com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:50:54 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: TB Emergency - NOW other pets playing in tanks I used to have a cat that would do that until some of the fish decided enough was enough and started nibbling his toes and scared him off! Both of my canines (Samoyed and Great Dane) will "guard" the tanks, I had a koi get rambuctious when I was cleaning the tank and stepped away for a sec to grab the phone, the koi jumped out and both dogs started barking like crazy at it knowing it belonged in the tank not on the floor. Goofy fish was tossed back in after a quick salty water rinse but both girls are on "alert" everytime I step near one of the tanks. Heaven forbid, one of those "terrorist fish" might make a break for it - LOL Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > I have 3 cats and I can't get the one (Izzy) to stop drinking out of the fish tanks. She also will sleep on top of the fish tanks and bird cages. She does not listen to me telling her to stop. I also know someone that has birds and they go into his fish room all the time. Play in the water and such. I have not heard of any problems although I'm sure there could be. My birds, do not go near the fish tanks, so at least I don't have to worry about them taking a bath with the fishies. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: wendieo@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:30 - 0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency > > > > > Letting a cat or dog drink water from the tank invites a bacterial infection in the animal.Wendie----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:25 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyChanging the subject a little... I'm not sure it's a good idea to let a catdrink or a parrotlet (is that just a smaller parrot like a parakeet?) drinkfrom a fish tank. They are both natural predators of fish and probably cause undue stress tothe fish... much like Godzilla reaching into your kitchen window for a drinkmight do to you. He might not eat you but you surely wouldn't be verycomfortable with him reaching through your kitchen window. ;-) Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:41 PMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyDear Dora,She seemed just recently dead and in fact was hidden under some driftwood.No signs of other fish attack or eating her carcass.I'm also concerned now as I remember both my Cat drink from the tank +Parrotlet plays in it too. Are they going to die?Help!!!!TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:35:35To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB EmergencyFirst of all fish TB poses a low risk to humans. I don't know if a humanwith a drastically impaired immune system could get a systemic infection,but I believe that fish TB can't survive at human body temperature. Inhumans it is generally a skin infection that moves extremely slowly. Ithink that it doesn't look much different from other skin infectionsacquired from fish tanks - sores that don't heal and develop a heaped andinflamed appearance around the edges. I don't know if it must be treatedwith anti-TB drugs but I've an idea that wearing gloves in the tank andusing antibiotic cream - not ointment - as well as washing your hands wellmay do the trick.But I have to wonder if the fish could have been fine one day and dead of TBthe next. Could the gaping sore and the curved spine have happened otherways. Could the fish have come to appear to have a curved spine after itdied. Sometimes fish get attacked by other fish or get hung up onsomething and get hurt. I've actually lost three danios that way. Let'sfigure that out before figuring out what to do with your tank.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...>To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:08 PMSubject: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency> Dear Lenny + Friends,>> Hello + thanks in advance for your replies.>> Today as I was doing tank maintenance, I discovered one of my female> bettas dead. She was totally fine yesterday, but today totally dead. > I found her stiff, with a curved spine, a hole in her belly and it> looked like she had internal bleeding.>> From my research, I have narrowed it down to TB and now totally> FREAKING out for my family + for the rest of my fish.>> She was in my 55 G tank along with a schoal of 8 Neon Tetras, 4 Ghost> Shrimp, 2 Chinese Algae Eaters, 3 African Dwarf Frogs, 4 other Female> Bettas, & 1 Gourami.>> I am really concerned that this disease will wipe out all the other fish.> What can I do to prevent this?>> Do I need to empty the tank and clean it out with bleach asap? Should> I put the remaining fish in a hospital tank and treat them with something?>> Not to mention that we, myself, nanny and son all touched the> contaminated fish and water, but we had no open wounds. I am so afraid> that my son may have put some of the bacteria in his mouth as he is a> toddler and that's what they do.>> Please help! Emergency! Thank you! OMG!!!!! OMG!!!!>> Sincerely worried sick,> Tania>>_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080918-0, 09/18/2008Tested on: 9/18/2008 9:25:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30152	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures

My pH is 7.8 and is perfect without increasing or decreasing for my cichlids (I have African Malawi and Tangs). _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PH cures Pure, clean well water. No additives, no chemicals. :D Chris in VA --- On Fri, 9/19/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PH cures To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 12:17 PM Probably the 7.8 is a product of your local water supply and its buffering, Chris. If it doesn't vary don't worry about it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Owens-Polski" <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH cures Right now I don't, it's rather solidly at 7.8, however that doesn't mean that in the future I may not need to. I'd prefer to be a bit more prepared! :D Chris in VA --- On Fri, 9/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30153	From: Margie	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

All I have to do is cough and my cat runs. She is a bit wild and scared of her own shadow. But one of my Shih Tzus use to love to sit in front of the big tank and watch the fish. She could sit for ever. But then she also liked TV.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Deenerz@... Date: 09/19/08 13:14:56 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency For persistant cat problems we use a squirt bottle. Once the cat understands where the water came from all you have to do is pick up the squirt bottle and the cat will stop, well while you are watching anyway :) -Mike Lol, my toddler tried to push our cat in, but she still comes around. He got her legs in, it was cute! She might take off if she sees him coming at her though! Lol Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 6:13 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Lol, my toddler tried to push our cat in, but she still comes around. He got her legs in, it was cute! She might take off if she sees him coming at her though! Lol Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 01:02:57 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency One of my cats used to drink out of the tank...until I removed the cover one day. She fell in. She is not as interested in the tanks anymore. -Mike ? Messages in this topic (27)? Recent Activity 11 New Members 10 New Photos Visit Your Group Sitebuilder Build a web site quickly & easily with Sitebuilder. Everyday Wellness on Yahoo! Groups Find groups that will help you stay fit. All-Bran 10 Day Challenge Join the club and feel the benefits. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30154	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: in search of something different

Can anyone tell me where I can find some scarlet badis or some licorice gouramis? I think there must be a code or unknown rule for every LFS to carry the same species of fish. I swear if I see one more Glofish or neon tetra I'm gonna scream.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30155	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: PH cures

Messing with your pH can get you into real trouble, especially on the down swing. You take too much a chance on breaking the buffer that helps to maintain the pH of the water. When the buffer breaks (actually a neutralizing of the KH of the water), the pH will drop, sometimes precipitously. Given your pH of 7.8, if you are aiming at 7.0, you could suddenly find yourself with a pH of 4.0. While there are fish that will live and do well at this pH, they are few and far between. It is very hard on any fish, though, and you will see them going into what is known as pH shock. Then, adding your baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), along with water changes, you are in for a long process of bring the water up to snuff again. It will need to be done slowly, so as not to shock the fish again, or at least the ones that survived the initial drop. Though it is uncommon, and very seldom heard of, you can do the same in the other direction. It is just harder to do. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 7:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH cures Ok, for years I've used pure baking soda to raise the PH, is there a reliable home method to lower PH that anyone uses? Chris in VA (who hates using unnatural chemicals unless truly necessary)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30156	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: in search of something different

For the most part stores stock what they know will sell, and their wholesalers have to do the same. My local wholesaler wants to stock unusual or rare fish but stores are too scare to buy the unusual items. catch 22? He did have some licorice gouramies but he does not sell to the public, just stores. If you ask the LFS they may look at their wholesale list and order some for you. I was persistant about Dario Dario and my LFS eventually ordered them. -Mike  Can anyone tell me where I can find some scarlet badis or some licorice gouramis? I think there must be a code or unknown rule for every LFS to carry the same species of fish. I swear if I see one more Glofish or neon tetra I'm gonna scream. -----Original Message----- From: va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 4:52 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] in search of something different Can anyone tell me where I can find some scarlet badis or some licorice gouramis? I think there must be a code or unknown rule for every LFS to carry the same species of fish. I swear if I see one more Glofish or neon tetra I'm gonna scream. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30157	From: pam andress	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: in search of something different

Look on aquabid.com and if you don't see what you want, you can also ask on aquaboards.com. I'm sure someone has them. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: va22_vyshys@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:52:42 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] in search of something different Can anyone tell me where I can find some scarlet badis or some licorice gouramis? I think there must be a code or unknown rule for every LFS to carry the same species of fish. I swear if I see one more Glofish or neon tetra I'm gonna scream. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30158	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: in search of something different

Ask your LFS to order them for you. If they won't, then check this site http://www.segrestfarms.com and click on their Find A Pet Shop link to see if they have a retailer nearby you. I know my local PetsMart deals with them so I'm guessing any PetsMart can. I did look at their catalog and saw they have Licorice Gouramis and Badis Scarlets. You could probably spend hours looking at all of the fish they carry, put together an order and then have your LFS or PetsMart order them for you. There is also http://www.aquabid.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of va22_vyshys Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 6:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] in search of something different Can anyone tell me where I can find some scarlet badis or some licorice gouramis? I think there must be a code or unknown rule for every LFS to carry the same species of fish. I swear if I see one more Glofish or neon tetra I'm gonna scream. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/19/2008 7:55:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30159	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: in search of something different

or Common Pleco that grows to be 24" long At Petsmart today I asked the clerk why they didn't carry fish that would actually work in the 20 gallon tanks they sale and she just looked at me like I was crazy. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30160	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter

I have not seen what I consider to be the obvious. Go to your LFS and talk with the owner/manager of the place. You may walk out with more than you expected, and you'll have new equipment rather than used. Then you can fall back on things like freecycle lists, craigslist, and word of mouth through neighbors and other friends. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter pump Hi I'm setting up a 10-gallon tank for a Kindergarten class in Vero Beach. I'm looking for a gently used donated pump, or ideas about where I might find one and a tank cover cheap. I've inherited a tank that has seen better days, only has some rock, and I'm already purchasing everything else. If any of the big pet stores offer some sort of school or PTA discounts that you know of, let me know and I'll get to it. Thanks for any help. Feel free to email me privately. Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30161	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter

You could possibly find an ok hood on craigs list but as far as a pump and/or heater you want that new for sure. Go to PetSmart and talk to their Pet Care manager or as for fish expert. I'd go with a aqua clear personaly but that's all I use. And I'm pretty byast towards PetSmart. Mine kicks butt though. :p Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:24:24 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter pump I have not seen what I consider to be the obvious. Go to your LFS and talk with the owner/manager of the place. You may walk out with more than you expected, and you'll have new equipment rather than used. Then you can fall back on things like freecycle lists, craigslist, and word of mouth through neighbors and other friends. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter pump Hi I'm setting up a 10-gallon tank for a Kindergarten class in Vero Beach. I'm looking for a gently used donated pump, or ideas about where I might find one and a tank cover cheap. I've inherited a tank that has seen better days, only has some rock, and I'm already purchasing everything else. If any of the big pet stores offer some sort of school or PTA discounts that you know of, let me know and I'll get to it. Thanks for any help. Feel free to email me privately. Alina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30162	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: 10 ugly fish

I also thought that there are uglier fish out there. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 10:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 10 ugly fish I just can't can't CAN'T believe hagfish did not make this list. Not only are they physically bordering on the offensive (I'm sure pictures of them are banned from girl's schools in Moslem countries) to look at, they produce copious amounts of snotty slime, thus the other common name "slime eel" so they are hideous in a number of ways. Also, they enter dead things to eat through any orifice, so fisherman who have seen these things have a righteous horror of being lost or buried at sea. I love almost every kind of animal, even commonly disliked ones such as rats, did not mind the "eek" sea louse pictures at all, but hagfish are the most disgusting things in the sea.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30163	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area

Welcome to the list Lara. It may help if you mentioned what type of African cichlids you have to pass along. Are they Rift Lake cichlids or riverine cichlids? Giving a name to the fish will help others determine if they will fit into their community of other fish, or if they should pass on them. A reason for giving them up may also attract some people. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laraandgirls Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 3:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area Hello, My name is Lara & I'm new here. But what I was wondering is if anyone lives in Greensburg PA and wants to have 7 African cichlids? Thank's Lara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30164	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: in search of something different

Check out the Aquabid site, www.aquabid.com. They have some badis offered right now, though they are not the ones you are looking for. I did not see any _Parosphromenus_ offered tonight, but I have seen them in the past. For the badis, there is a list on Yahoo! for badis, and another for Dario, which you might want to check out. If you have a truly local fish store, not a chain, you might want to ask if they can get them for you. Mark Denaro has a site where he lists things like this for sale. He regularly imports all kinds of badis and labyrinth fish. www.anubiasdesign.com \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of va22_vyshys Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 7:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] in search of something different Can anyone tell me where I can find some scarlet badis or some licorice gouramis? I think there must be a code or unknown rule for every LFS to carry the same species of fish. I swear if I see one more Glofish or neon tetra I'm gonna scream.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30165	From: pam andress	Date: 9/19/2008
Subject: Re: Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter

Very true Steve. You may get a nice owner that will donate to the cause. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: steve@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:24:24 -0400Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a 10-gal filter pump I have not seen what I consider to be the obvious. Go to your LFS andtalk with the owner/manager of the place. You may walk out with morethan you expected, and you'll have new equipment rather than used.Then you can fall back on things like freecycle lists, craigslist, andword of mouth through neighbors and other friends.\\Steve// -----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of AlinaSent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:28 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Vero Beach, Florida -- Kindergarten class needs a10-gal filter pumpHiI'm setting up a 10-gallon tank for a Kindergarten class in VeroBeach. I'm looking for a gently used donated pump, or ideas aboutwhere I might find one and a tank cover cheap. I've inherited a tank that has seen better days, only has some rock,and I'm already purchasing everything else.If any of the big pet stores offer some sort of school or PTAdiscounts that you know of, let me know and I'll get to it.Thanks for any help. Feel free to email me privately. Alina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30166	From: laraandgirls	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area

Thank You Steve, I believe the fish are from lake Malawi & Victorian. There are a variety of differant ones but I can send pictures to anyone interested. The reason we are giving them away is because my husband wants to start a salt water tank and is threatening flushing the poor things. >Thanks, Lara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30167	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Scouting Research

Here are a few things I thought may be of interest to some of our members. The subject may seem a little strange, but it is a standard format I use when passing along tidbits that may interest or help my sisters--the teachers. The source for this is listed below, should you wish to pursue the weekly newsletter from which these tidbits come. Monterey Bay Aquarium: Research [Windows Media Player] http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/research.asp The Monterey Bay Aquarium in California has created an eminently readable website about the Aquarium's conservation efforts and research, specifically for sea otters, tuna, white sharks, and open-ocean animals, such as sea turtles, whales and sharks. The various facets of their conservation research on sea otters and white sharks can be accessed on the menu on the left side of the screen. Visitors should check out "Revealing Tuna Secrets", to learn that the Northern bluefin tuna is not only an extremely lucrative catch, selling for more than $100,000 in Japan for a single giant fish, but is also a fish of incredible speeds swimming up to 25 miles per hour and living for as long as 30 years. In the section "Revealing Tuna Secrets" there are several short videos to watch, so that visitors may Tune in to Tuna, including one on tracking and one on tagging. Lastly, but most importantly, the website provides "Seafood WATCH", a downloadable and printable pocket-sized guide to help seafood eaters choose seafood that is sustainable. Sustainability is defined as seafood that is "abundant, well managed and fished or farmed in environmentally friendly ways." "Seafood WATCH" is also available on mobile devices as well. In closing, whether you dine at Red Lobster or Legal Sea Foods, you can now conveniently choose with a conscience. Crustacea.net http://www.crustacea.net/ Crustaceans and those who love to learn about crustaceans now have an excellent online home in the form of this website provided by the Australian Museum. The site was started in 1999, and its basic purpose and reason for existence is to "provide an interactive information retrieval system for the world crustaceans." Visitors to the site can read a brief introduction and then click on the "World Crustacea" link to get started. Here visitors can click on different species and also take a look at the identification guides, take a look at relevant monographs, and also read an extensive list of references. Additionally, visitors can read through their recent announcements and learn about upcoming workshops and conferences. >From The Scout Report, Copyright Internet Scout 1994-2008. http://scout.wisc.edu/ \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30168	From: lizkakot	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area)

I have a weird assortment of fish right now, and my goldfish have definably grown up to be bullies. I started out with three little, tiny orange fish that I got from a friend, in my large 30 gall aquarium. Now I have 3 HUGE GOLDFISH BULLIES, 10 tetras in there, about 30 guppies of all sizes, 6 platies, a 6 INCH bala shark, 3 american flag fish, 2 algae eaters and some other bottom dwellers that are about 1 inch long. You see my problem? If anyone in my area has a free or cheap tank that's 10 gallons or more, that would be wonderful!! MY FISH NEED YOU!. Liza [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30169	From: Red Terror	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: DISCUS

Dear Mods, Mabuhay! I would just like to ask for your support regarding an upcoming activity next week geared towards fish/aquarium hobbyists or just about everyone, the "1st PDS National Discus Competition". The organization will highly appreciate that this email be sent to members of this group. http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk256/frontier_iii/web_ads3.jpg The show will be held in Cartimar Shopping Complex, Pasay City. thank you so much More power! Godbless moja

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30170	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area)

You need more than a 10G tank. As you now know, Goldfish get HUGE and need 25G++ each, if the fancy variety. If the long-bodied variety, then 50G++ each. If they are the long variety, you would be better off finding them someone who has a pond. They are not bullies, they're just trying to survive in a extremely overstocked tank. It's Darwinism... survival of the fittest. What kind of "algae eaters" do you have? Algae eaters range from 1.5" otocinclus to 24" common plecos and every size in between. If you have two common plecos, then they need 75G++ each. The Bala Shark grows to 16" and needs a 6' long, 100G tank. Go to your local FreeCycle.org group and post on there that you will take every tank available in your area if you plan on keeping all of your fish. You would be better off rehoming the BIG fish (Goldfish, Bala Shark, possible Common Plecos and identify your "bottom feeders") that will not survive long term in your 30G tank and then reassessing your needs from there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lizkakot Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area) I have a weird assortment of fish right now, and my goldfish have definably grown up to be bullies. I started out with three little, tiny orange fish that I got from a friend, in my large 30 gall aquarium. Now I have 3 HUGE GOLDFISH BULLIES, 10 tetras in there, about 30 guppies of all sizes, 6 platies, a 6 INCH bala shark, 3 american flag fish, 2 algae eaters and some other bottom dwellers that are about 1 inch long. You see my problem? If anyone in my area has a free or cheap tank that's 10 gallons or more, that would be wonderful!! MY FISH NEED YOU!. Liza _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:17:34 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30171	From: Margie	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Brown Algae

Can some one tell me what is brown algae and what causes it and how to get rid of it. I may have the start of it. We just went through IKE, had an air stone, but no light or filtration.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

We just had a long discussion about Brown Algae. Here is the previous thread. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/5237 Your "brown algae" may be dying/dead green algae due to your bout with Ike. Whether you could see it or not, you likely had green algae in your tank.... ALL tanks have some algae and remember that algae are single celled "plants" so they are microscopic until their volume gets large enough to become visible. Is it like a powdery dust on everything that brushes off easily or is it stuck to the glass, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Can some one tell me what is brown algae and what causes it and how to get rid of it. I may have the start of it. We just went through IKE, had an air stone, but no light or filtration. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:24:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:28:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30173	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area

Lara, If you have no takers, ask you local fish store. They may give you credit towards your husband's marine fish after you get the tank set up again. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30174	From: Margie	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Powdery dust that will brush off and it is on the tops of the fake plants and the one live plant. I knew you had just discussed it, but I was so involved with everything going on here.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 11:28:12 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae We just had a long discussion about Brown Algae. Here is the previous thread. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/5237 Your "brown algae" may be dying/dead green algae due to your bout with Ike. Whether you could see it or not, you likely had green algae in your tank.... ALL tanks have some algae and remember that algae are single celled "plants" so they are microscopic until their volume gets large enough to become visible. Is it like a powdery dust on everything that brushes off easily or is it stuck to the glass, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Can some one tell me what is brown algae and what causes it and how to get rid of it. I may have the start of it. We just went through IKE, had an air stone, but no light or filtration. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:24:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:28:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Powdery dust that will brush off and it is on the tops of the fake plants and the one live plant. I knew you had just discussed it, but I was so involved with everything going on here.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 11:28:12 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae We just had a long discussion about Brown Algae. Here is the previous thread. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/5237 <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/5237> Your "brown algae" may be dying/dead green algae due to your bout with Ike. Whether you could see it or not, you likely had green algae in your tank.... ALL tanks have some algae and remember that algae are single celled "plants" so they are microscopic until their volume gets large enough to become visible. Is it like a powdery dust on everything that brushes off easily or is it stuck to the glass, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Can some one tell me what is brown algae and what causes it and how to get rid of it. I may have the start of it. We just went through IKE, had an air stone, but no light or filtration. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 12:26:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30176	From: Margie	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

It is maybe lack of light for three days, plus over feeding. I will watch that for sure.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/20/2008 11:28:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae We just had a long discussion about Brown Algae. Here is the previous thread. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/5237 Your "brown algae" may be dying/dead green algae due to your bout with Ike. Whether you could see it or not, you likely had green algae in your tank.... ALL tanks have some algae and remember that algae are single celled "plants" so they are microscopic until their volume gets large enough to become visible. Is it like a powdery dust on everything that brushes off easily or is it stuck to the glass, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Can some one tell me what is brown algae and what causes it and how to get rid of it. I may have the start of it. We just went through IKE, had an air stone, but no light or filtration. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:24:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:28:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30177	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

Don't know what cat problem, but my brother, who is getting a cat, was talking about this electrified pad you can put in one area that has proven effective at teaching the cat not to go there. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Mike! A Squirt gun! Hahaha! Sounds like fun! I just feel bad for her, she just loves looking at those fish! Lol Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:14:27 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency For persistant cat problems we use a squirt bottle. Once the cat understands where the water came from all you have to do is pick up the squirt bottle and the cat will stop, well while you are watching anyway :) -Mike Lol, my toddler tried to push our cat in, but she still comes around. He got her legs in, it was cute! She might take off if she sees him coming at her though! Lol Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 6:13 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency Lol, my toddler tried to push our cat in, but she still comes around. He got her legs in, it was cute! She might take off if she sees him coming at her though! Lol Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 01:02:57 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TB Emergency One of my cats used to drink out of the tank...until I removed the cover one day. She fell in. She is not as interested in the tanks anymore. -Mike ? Messages in this topic (27)? Recent Activity 11 New Members 10 New Photos Visit Your Group Sitebuilder Build a web site quickly & easily with Sitebuilder. Everyday Wellness on Yahoo! Groups Find groups that will help you stay fit. All-Bran 10 Day Challenge Join the club and feel the benefits. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30178	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Usually it's a water quality problem that happens in mature tanks. Often newly mature tanks. It's actually diatoms. If you had a good microscope, as I do, for viewing in high power, if you looked at a little of that brown stuff under it you would find oval little critters made of glass - nto kidding. They can take alot of shapes though some of them are more common in fresh water aquariums and the greatest variety of them live in the ocean. They have a kind of chlorophyll called yellow-brown or something. Wehther tehy are to be considered algae depends on who you ask. Tehre is a good article in Wikipedia which does classify them as algae. They're also called phytoplankton or micralgae (I think). The classifications of the protista and the algae are in a state of real flux at the moment. To get rid of them you need to do a good cleaning - just clean the surfaces they're on where feasible. In my case I got two species that like to attach to certain surfaces, so I just had to wipe off the plants, rocks and petrified log. I also siphoned the gravel well. I changed maybe half to three quarters of the water and changed about a third of it the next day when I did it again with some spots I found I'd missed even with all the plastic plants and rocks out of the tank. Clean your filters as well as they can filter out diatoms, which can then clog the filter. They are one-celled, but made of glass. Now, a tank usually has small amounts of this stuff, and when you can see it, sometimes it means that the stuff used up all of the nutrients in the water, died, and sank. In a maturing tank they're often eventually supplanted by green algae, if you'd rather have that. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Can some one tell me what is brown algae and what causes it and how to get rid of it. I may have the start of it. We just went through IKE, had an air stone, but no light or filtration. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30179	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

My brown algae landed on selective surfaces - plastic plants and rocks - and wiped off easily, and not in sheets - but when I looked under the microscope it was two specific species of diatoms that selectively attach to (real) plants and rocks. I wonder what it thinks plastic is. But there wasn't any visible in the gravel or on the sides of the tank. Not kidding, I took photos under the microscope and posted to experts on the diatom list. They were Cocceis and Navula. I saw at most one that appeared to be living, but not sure I could tell the difference. I think atleast teh Cocceis are free swimming but not certain. Later next week I intend to see if I can catch some critters alive. They apparently form slime layers as well as brown powdery layers, and both are just beginning to regrow in my tank. It looks like definite colonies and not stuff that fell randomely out of the tank. Anyway, when I last checked several days ago my tank chemistry was fine. The day I found stuff all over they'd gone through every last molecule of nitrates and phosphates in the water and removed all of it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:28 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae We just had a long discussion about Brown Algae. Here is the previous thread. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/5237 Your "brown algae" may be dying/dead green algae due to your bout with Ike. Whether you could see it or not, you likely had green algae in your tank.... ALL tanks have some algae and remember that algae are single celled "plants" so they are microscopic until their volume gets large enough to become visible. Is it like a powdery dust on everything that brushes off easily or is it stuck to the glass, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Can some one tell me what is brown algae and what causes it and how to get rid of it. I may have the start of it. We just went through IKE, had an air stone, but no light or filtration. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:24:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:28:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30180	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

While you're at it, ask your water utility how much phosphates and silicates in the water. This is a contributing factor. High nitrates is the third. And I had someone tell me they also eat ammonia. Don't know if that is true. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 12:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Powdery dust that will brush off and it is on the tops of the fake plants and the one live plant. I knew you had just discussed it, but I was so involved with everything going on here.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 11:28:12 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae We just had a long discussion about Brown Algae. Here is the previous thread. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/5237 <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/5237> Your "brown algae" may be dying/dead green algae due to your bout with Ike. Whether you could see it or not, you likely had green algae in your tank.... ALL tanks have some algae and remember that algae are single celled "plants" so they are microscopic until their volume gets large enough to become visible. Is it like a powdery dust on everything that brushes off easily or is it stuck to the glass, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Can some one tell me what is brown algae and what causes it and how to get rid of it. I may have the start of it. We just went through IKE, had an air stone, but no light or filtration. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 12:26:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30181	From: lizkakot	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area)

The algae eaters are tiny, and will stay tiny, same with the bottom dwellers. The shark hasn't grown in a year and since I clean the tank every other day, all of the fish are doing alright. I just didn't expect these tiny goldfish to have a growth spur so suddenly. They are just feeders, so the store won't make sure they get a good home, and I don't know anyone who could take them. As far as the guppies and platies go, I just try to keep a few and give away the rest. Freecycle is a good idea. I posted on there. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You need more than a 10G tank. > > As you now know, Goldfish get HUGE and need 25G++ each, if the fancy > variety. If the long-bodied variety, then 50G++ each. If they are the long > variety, you would be better off finding them someone who has a pond. They > are not bullies, they're just trying to survive in a extremely overstocked > tank. It's Darwinism... survival of the fittest. > > What kind of "algae eaters" do you have? Algae eaters range from 1.5" > otocinclus to 24" common plecos and every size in between. If you have two > common plecos, then they need 75G++ each. > > The Bala Shark grows to 16" and needs a 6' long, 100G tank. > > Go to your local FreeCycle.org group and post on there that you will take > every tank available in your area if you plan on keeping all of your fish. > > You would be better off rehoming the BIG fish (Goldfish, Bala Shark, > possible Common Plecos and identify your "bottom feeders") that will not > survive long term in your 30G tank and then reassessing your needs from > there. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of lizkakot > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area) > > I have a weird assortment of fish right now, and my goldfish have definably > grown up to be bullies. > > I started out with three little, tiny orange fish that I got from a friend, > in my large 30 gall aquarium. > > Now I have 3 HUGE GOLDFISH BULLIES, 10 tetras in there, about 30 guppies of > all sizes, 6 platies, a 6 INCH bala shark, 3 american flag fish, 2 algae > eaters and some other bottom dwellers that are about 1 inch long. > > You see my problem? > > If anyone in my area has a free or cheap tank that's 10 gallons or more, > that would be wonderful!! > > MY FISH NEED YOU!. > > Liza > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 > Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:17:34 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area)

Do you know what species of algae eaters that you have? There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of species commonly available in aquaria. You need to find out which ones you have so you can plan accordingly. The fact that the Bala Shark hasn't grown in a year is called stunting which is not healthy to the fish. It causes stress issues and immune system issues so although he may be healthy today, he'll likely have problems in the near future. Keeping fish overstocked or in undersized aquariums will cause stunting which will lead to health issues and an early death for the fish. I'm not sure what you mean by cleaning but about the only thing you should be doing is daily 25% PWC's, vacuuming your gravel each time and probably doing filter maintenance every few days. I have a long article on my blog about proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not disrupt the biological filtration that happens in a filter system. Those "feeder" goldfish are likely common goldfish which are the largest of the species... growing up to 18"+. You really need to find someone with a pond that can handle the extra bioload of three more goldfish. Contact your local aquatic gardening store for the names of one or more Pond Clubs or Koi Clubs and then get a message out to their members. One other thing that I did not mention in my first post is that most of your fish are tropical fish while the goldfish are cool water fish so they shouldn't even be in the same tanks anyhow. If you can rehome the goldfish and the bala shark, you will drastically improve the ecology of your tank (making things much better for your fish and for you) while you work on identifying the other unknown fish that you have. Your LFS might take the Bala Shark off your hands and give you store credit. They may also allow you to put up a flyer on their bulletin board to try and find a home for the goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lizkakot Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 12:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area) The algae eaters are tiny, and will stay tiny, same with the bottom dwellers. The shark hasn't grown in a year and since I clean the tank every other day, all of the fish are doing alright. I just didn't expect these tiny goldfish to have a growth spur so suddenly. They are just feeders, so the store won't make sure they get a good home, and I don't know anyone who could take them. As far as the guppies and platies go, I just try to keep a few and give away the rest. Freecycle is a good idea. I posted on there. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You need more than a 10G tank. > > As you now know, Goldfish get HUGE and need 25G++ each, if the fancy > variety. If the long-bodied variety, then 50G++ each. If they are the long > variety, you would be better off finding them someone who has a pond. They > are not bullies, they're just trying to survive in a extremely overstocked > tank. It's Darwinism... survival of the fittest. > > What kind of "algae eaters" do you have? Algae eaters range from 1.5" > otocinclus to 24" common plecos and every size in between. If you have two > common plecos, then they need 75G++ each. > > The Bala Shark grows to 16" and needs a 6' long, 100G tank. > > Go to your local FreeCycle.org group and post on there that you will take > every tank available in your area if you plan on keeping all of your fish. > > You would be better off rehoming the BIG fish (Goldfish, Bala Shark, > possible Common Plecos and identify your "bottom feeders") that will > not survive long term in your 30G tank and then reassessing your needs > from there. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of lizkakot > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area) > > I have a weird assortment of fish right now, and my goldfish have definably > grown up to be bullies. > > I started out with three little, tiny orange fish that I got from a friend, > in my large 30 gall aquarium. > > Now I have 3 HUGE GOLDFISH BULLIES, 10 tetras in there, about 30 guppies of > all sizes, 6 platies, a 6 INCH bala shark, 3 american flag fish, 2 > algae eaters and some other bottom dwellers that are about 1 inch long. > > You see my problem? > > If anyone in my area has a free or cheap tank that's 10 gallons or > more, that would be wonderful!! > > MY FISH NEED YOU!. > > Liza > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 > 11:17:34 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 1:03:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 1:13:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30183	From: junglejingles	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Unidentified fish under new photos

Hey Chris, Is there a link to pics of your other two fish? (I may have just missed it) I'd love to see what these critters are you are trying to ID, maybe I can help. Clarice ===================== Posted through Grouply, the better way to access your Yahoo Groups like this one. http://www.grouply.com/?code=post

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30184	From: Kurt Johnston	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: ACLC Reminder

Only 2 weeks left before The Aquarium Club of Lancaster County 2008 All Aquatic Swap Meet at the Eden Resort Inn in Lancaster PA. The good news is that we have only a few tables left and people coming from NJ, PA, DE, and MD. The event will take place on Sunday October 5th from 11AM to 3PM. If you are a seller the great news is that the tables are only $20 for a 96"x30" table. Unlike an auction, the sellers sets the prices and keeps all of the profits, no percentage for the club. If you require more information you can find it on our website at http://www.aclc.us or contact me. Thank you and, I hope we see you at the Swap Meet. Kurt Johnston Aquarium Club of Lancaster County <http://www.aclc.us/> BAP / Public Relations/Swap Meet Chairman Webmaster 717-965-7763

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30185	From: Margie	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. And thanks for the help.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Powdery dust that will brush off and it is on the tops of the fake plants and the one live plant. I knew you had just discussed it, but I was so involved with everything going on here.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 11:28:12 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae We just had a long discussion about Brown Algae. Here is the previous thread http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/5237 <http://pets groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/5237> Your "brown algae" may be dying/dead green algae due to your bout with Ike. Whether you could see it or not, you likely had green algae in your tank.... ALL tanks have some algae and remember that algae are single celled "plants" so they are microscopic until their volume gets large enough to become visible. Is it like a powdery dust on everything that brushes off easily or is it stuck to the glass, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Can some one tell me what is brown algae and what causes it and how to get rid of it. I may have the start of it. We just went through IKE, had an air stone, but no light or filtration. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080919-0, 09/19/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 12:26:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30186	From: Wendie	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: in search of something different

You should join Mark's list on Yahoo. He lists what he can get almost weekly. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 11:44 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] in search of something different Check out the Aquabid site, www.aquabid.com. They have some badis offered right now, though they are not the ones you are looking for. I did not see any _Parosphromenus_ offered tonight, but I have seen them in the past. For the badis, there is a list on Yahoo! for badis, and another for Dario, which you might want to check out. If you have a truly local fish store, not a chain, you might want to ask if they can get them for you. Mark Denaro has a site where he lists things like this for sale. He regularly imports all kinds of badis and labyrinth fish. www.anubiasdesign.com \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of va22_vyshys Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 7:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] in search of something different Can anyone tell me where I can find some scarlet badis or some licorice gouramis? I think there must be a code or unknown rule for every LFS to carry the same species of fish. I swear if I see one more Glofish or neon tetra I'm gonna scream. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30187	From: Blue fish	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Extensive site includes news of various topics like Marine animals,Marine biology, sharks,Whales,sea mammals,endangered species, birds, turtles, penguine, seal,planktons,Fish,coral reef,coastal... ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C404D5E50444A425A445146445A515F4C ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C404D5E50444A425A445146445A515F4C Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C404D5E50444A425A445146445A515F48 Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30188	From: Chris	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmClC6bJULY

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30189	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: ph Balance

I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30190	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance

Ouch! From experience I can say, never try and adjust your pH. Your fish usually adapt just fine to whatever pH you have readily available. Unless it is an extreme case of very very low or very very high. Can you share with us what your pH was before you started? What did you use to treat for ich? Please tell us what, and how much as well as size of the tank, and inhabitants of the tank. -Mike  I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy. -----Original Message----- From: cheeseymicron03 <cheese911@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 8:14 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] ph Balance I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30191	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Book Abstracts

I have a new bookcase and I am in the process of reshelving my fish books. While I was doing some books the other day, I thought that it may be of interest to at least some of those here if I put up some abstracts or short reviews of the books that are (or should be) readily available, plus a few important books that are out of print, but you may find with some diligence at used book stores or book sales held by various organizations. An example would be one that I highly recommend, " Baensch Aquarium Atlas (Vol. 1)", Hans A. Baensch and Rudiger Riehl. Currently in print in both hardcover and soft cover versions. "This book contains the most complete information on over 600 of the most common freshwater aquarium fishes & over 100 plants. Large, clear color photos of each fish and plant make browsing a pleasure. "I really liked the plant section. There is information on physical characteristics, aquarium conditions & difficulty keeping. They are grouped by family & separated from the fish for easy reference. "Conveniently, this book uses detailed text instead of symbols to describe the fish & aquarium conditions. Some information includes habitat, behavior, feeding, breeding, physical characteristics, maintenance & difficulty keeping. "Both scientific & common names are given & the fish are grouped by family. Good general information on caring for the fish as well setting up & maintaining the aquarium is also included." Stolen from Amazon.com, written by Angel Lee. Angel does not mention the 60+ page section on setting up and maintaining an aquarium, which is quite well written. There is a much shorter section on keeping and maintaining plants. A good choice for both the novice and advanced aquarist. Translated from the German. Quite obviously, I will try to stay away from books, that, while interesting, really do not have much to do with the hobby other than from an historical, taxonomy, or other similar viewpoint, such as George Albert Boulanger's " Catalogue of the Fresh Water Fishes of Africa in the British Museum". (But, if you are really curious about it, here it is: "The first volume of this Catalogue contains the descriptions of 302 species and the enumeration of 3380 specimens. The second volume deals with the bulk of the Cyprinidae and the whole of the Siluridae, the number of species and specimens amounts to 428 and 4434 respectively. Volume III includes a considerable number of Families, belonging to the Suborders Symbranchii, Apodes, Haplomi, Scombresoces, Lophobranchii, and Acanthopterygii. The scope of Volume IV of the present Catalogue is in accordance with the anticipation expressed in the Preface and Introduction of its Predecessor.") [You don't even want to know what a set of the original four volumes would cost, if you can find one in good condition.] If you have interest, I'll post these as I have the time. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30192	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance

I'm learning that now! I lost my pleco this morning so I thought my ph was off. I havent gotten my test stuff in the mail yet. I have some Wardley bullseye 7.0 ph regulator so i thought I'd just put some in. I put 35 teaspoons in since I have a 35 gallon tank. After the loss of my pleco I have two gold fish two molly's and an irredecent shark. I treated the ich with Wardley's Ick away. I only did 5 ml of it because of the shark. I had just put it in about 2 hours before the ph balancer. Ouch!From experience I can say, never try and adjust your pH. Your fish usually adapt just fine to whatever pH you have readily available. Unless it is an extreme case of very very low or very very high. Can you share with us what your pH was before you started?What did you use to treat for ich? Please tell us what, and how much as well as size of the tank, and inhabitants of the tank. -Mike I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy.-----Original Message-----From: cheeseymicron03 <cheese911@...>To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 8:14 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] ph BalanceI just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30193	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance

Mike, You really do not want to adjust pH, ever. Choose fish that will do well in your pH instead. Saves a lot of work and headaches. Trying to lower pH can lead to a sudden crash in the pH which cannot be managed, and the same can happen if you are trying to raise pH, though it is much less experienced and written about. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ph Balance Ouch! From experience I can say, never try and adjust your pH. Your fish usually adapt just fine to whatever pH you have readily available. Unless it is an extreme case of very very low or very very high. Can you share with us what your pH was before you started? What did you use to treat for ich? Please tell us what, and how much as well as size of the tank, and inhabitants of the tank. -Mike  I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy. -----Original Message----- From: cheeseymicron03 <cheese911@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 8:14 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] ph Balance I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30194	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance

I would add that it would probably be a good idea to start doing a series of 10-20% PWC's (partial water changes) to slowly remove and dilute the pH chemicals. DO NOT do a large PWC as that could change the pH too much too fast, especially with the chemical you added. Normally, doing 25% PWC's are OK and only do larger ones if you are sure that the water you are replacing it with has similar water parameters. What are you using to treat the Ich? If one of the commercially available medicines, add a 10-20% dosage to the tank after each 10-20% PWC to replace the medicine you remove with the PWC. Give us your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature and if you have them, GH and KH test results, as well as the things Mike asked for about your tank. And like Mike said, it's better to stay away from 90% of the chemical treatments sold at most pet stores. Most are simply not needed and will harm your fish in the long run. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ph Balance Ouch! From experience I can say, never try and adjust your pH. Your fish usually adapt just fine to whatever pH you have readily available. Unless it is an extreme case of very very low or very very high. Can you share with us what your pH was before you started? What did you use to treat for ich? Please tell us what, and how much as well as size of the tank, and inhabitants of the tank. -Mike I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy. -----Original Message----- From: cheeseymicron03 <cheese911@... <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 8:14 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] ph Balance I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:02:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:13:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30195	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance

Steve, it wasn't me. I was replying to the previous poster :) -Mike Mike, You really do not want to adjust pH, ever. Choose fish that will do well in your pH instead. Saves a lot of work and headaches. Trying to lower pH can lead to a sudden crash in the pH which cannot be managed, and the same can happen if you are trying to raise pH, though it is much less experienced and written about. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:11 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ph Balance Mike, You really do not want to adjust pH, ever. Choose fish that will do well in your pH instead. Saves a lot of work and headaches. Trying to lower pH can lead to a sudden crash in the pH which cannot be managed, and the same can happen if you are trying to raise pH, though it is much less experienced and written about. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ph Balance Ouch! From experience I can say, never try and adjust your pH. Your fish usually adapt just fine to whatever pH you have readily available. Unless it is an extreme case of very very low or very very high. Can you share with?us what your pH was before you started? What did you use to treat for ich? Please tell us what, and how much as well as size of the tank, and inhabitants of the tank. -Mike? I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy. -----Original Message----- From: cheeseymicron03 <cheese911@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 8:14 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] ph Balance I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30196	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: Book Abstracts

Thanks \\Steve// Just to let folks know, some or all books may be available in full or in part via various online libraries. I just did a quick Google Books search and the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1 is available to read for FREE... well, about 90% of it is available. The other volumes are on Google Books also. http://books.google.com/books?id=pOpnIRuuPJUC <http://books.google.com/books?id=pOpnIRuuPJUC&printsec=frontcover> &printsec=frontcover or TinyURL if above link breaks - http://preview.tinyurl.com/3u83s9 As you scroll down to the Contents pages, you'll see that the majority of the chapters are in blue lettering, meaning it's online, with only a few chapters being in black lettering so they are not available online. The other volumes are also available with similar amounts of the 1,000 page books being available online. If you scroll all the way to the bottom, you'll find the index with the page numbers in blue where you can click the page number and go right to the information you are looking for. Once again, blue is online, black isn't... hopefully everything you need is in blue! Bookmark the Atlas link and look for other books on Google Books. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Abstracts I have a new bookcase and I am in the process of reshelving my fish books. While I was doing some books the other day, I thought that it may be of interest to at least some of those here if I put up some abstracts or short reviews of the books that are (or should be) readily available, plus a few important books that are out of print, but you may find with some diligence at used book stores or book sales held by various organizations. An example would be one that I highly recommend, " Baensch Aquarium Atlas (Vol. 1)", Hans A. Baensch and Rudiger Riehl. Currently in print in both hardcover and soft cover versions. "This book contains the most complete information on over 600 of the most common freshwater aquarium fishes & over 100 plants. Large, clear color photos of each fish and plant make browsing a pleasure. "I really liked the plant section. There is information on physical characteristics, aquarium conditions & difficulty keeping. They are grouped by family & separated from the fish for easy reference. "Conveniently, this book uses detailed text instead of symbols to describe the fish & aquarium conditions. Some information includes habitat, behavior, feeding, breeding, physical characteristics, maintenance & difficulty keeping. "Both scientific & common names are given & the fish are grouped by family. Good general information on caring for the fish as well setting up & maintaining the aquarium is also included." Stolen from Amazon.com, written by Angel Lee. Angel does not mention the 60+ page section on setting up and maintaining an aquarium, which is quite well written. There is a much shorter section on keeping and maintaining plants. A good choice for both the novice and advanced aquarist. Translated from the German. Quite obviously, I will try to stay away from books, that, while interesting, really do not have much to do with the hobby other than from an historical, taxonomy, or other similar viewpoint, such as George Albert Boulanger's " Catalogue of the Fresh Water Fishes of Africa in the British Museum". (But, if you are really curious about it, here it is: "The first volume of this Catalogue contains the descriptions of 302 species and the enumeration of 3380 specimens. The second volume deals with the bulk of the Cyprinidae and the whole of the Siluridae, the number of species and specimens amounts to 428 and 4434 respectively. Volume III includes a considerable number of Families, belonging to the Suborders Symbranchii, Apodes, Haplomi, Scombresoces, Lophobranchii, and Acanthopterygii. The scope of Volume IV of the present Catalogue is in accordance with the anticipation expressed in the Preface and Introduction of its Predecessor.") [You don't even want to know what a set of the original four volumes would cost, if you can find one in good condition.] If you have interest, I'll post these as I have the time. \\Steve// ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:12:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/20/2008 11:46:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30197	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance

Mike, You do seem to imply that in certain cases it may be OK to adjust pH, i.e. "Unless it is an extreme case of very very low or very very high." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ph Balance Steve, it wasn't me. I was replying to the previous poster :) -Mike Mike, You really do not want to adjust pH, ever. Choose fish that will do well in your pH instead. Saves a lot of work and headaches. Trying to lower pH can lead to a sudden crash in the pH which cannot be managed, and the same can happen if you are trying to raise pH, though it is much less experienced and written about. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:11 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ph Balance Mike, You really do not want to adjust pH, ever. Choose fish that will do well in your pH instead. Saves a lot of work and headaches. Trying to lower pH can lead to a sudden crash in the pH which cannot be managed, and the same can happen if you are trying to raise pH, though it is much less experienced and written about. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ph Balance Ouch! From experience I can say, never try and adjust your pH. Your fish usually adapt just fine to whatever pH you have readily available. Unless it is an extreme case of very very low or very very high. Can you share with?us what your pH was before you started? What did you use to treat for ich? Please tell us what, and how much as well as size of the tank, and inhabitants of the tank. -Mike? I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy. -----Original Message----- From: cheeseymicron03 <cheese911@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 8:14 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] ph Balance I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30198	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/20/2008
Subject: Re: ph Balance

Steve, I never advise people to play with their pH. I mentioned it because I knew someone would pop up and point out that there is no absolute answer. That is the meant to be the fine print buried deep within for those that end up with an extreme pH. The last thing I want is for people to mess with pH. I mention it because their were some extreme cases in San Francisco a few years ago when they were messing with the water from the Hetch Hetchy reservoir. (the next valley over from Yosemite) A well known discus breeder I know was testing his water multiple times throughout the day and the pH in the city was crashing hard and fast. really low pH. He was losing fish from the crash so he was having to adjust his water. I am not here to advocate messing with pH. -Mike Mike, You do seem to imply that in certain cases it may be OK to adjust pH, i.e. "Unless it is an extreme case of very very low or very very high." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:48 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ph Balance Mike, You do seem to imply that in certain cases it may be OK to adjust pH, i.e. "Unless it is an extreme case of very very low or very very high." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.c om Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ph Balance Steve, it wasn't me. I was replying to the previous poster :) -Mike Mike, You really do not want to adjust pH, ever. Choose fish that will do well in your pH instead. Saves a lot of work and headaches. Trying to lower pH can lead to a sudden crash in the pH which cannot be managed, and the same can happen if you are trying to raise pH, though it is much less experienced and written about. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:11 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ph Balance Mike, You really do not want to adjust pH, ever. Choose fish that will do well in your pH instead. Saves a lot of work and headaches. Trying to lower pH can lead to a sudden crash in the pH which cannot be managed, and the same can happen if you are trying to raise pH, though it is much less experienced and written about. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ph Balance Ouch! From experience I can say, never try and adjust your pH. Your fish usually adapt just fine to whatever pH you have readily available. Unless it is an extreme case of very very low or very very high. Can you share with?us what your pH was before you started? What did you use to=2 0treat for ich? Please tell us what, and how much as well as size of the tank, and inhabitants of the tank. -Mike? I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy. -----Original Message----- From: cheeseymicron03 <cheese911@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 8:14 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] ph Balance I just added some ph balance to my tank and now my tank is all milky. I am also treating for ich. will this kill my fish? The water is really cloudy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to=2 0a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30199	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Book Abstracts

Yeah, Steve, Keep 'em coming. I appreciate any insights you can give on fish and plant books. Linda Steve Szabo wrote: > If you have interest, I'll post these as I have the time

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30200	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it could simply have low water pressure. What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe flood water has gotten into the water system? You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; actual bad water would throw off some parameters. You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. And thanks for the help.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30201	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: check this out

Nice job - but poor meal worm! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 5:55 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmClC6bJULY ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30202	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: TB Emergency

I've never heard of Fish TB before but it sounds interesting. I worked as a nursing assitant for several years and know what human TB is and know it's pretty nasty. I couldn't find the article that was posted but found this article also at aquaarticles.com. It says nothing about Fish TB being incurable. They use the same antibiotics for it as they would for human TB. I knew you could get salmonilla from fish and hermit crabs but I didn't know you could get staph or MRSA from them. This was really interesting. MRSA is extremely deadly and once you have it they can cure the symptoms but you'll always be a carrier. I did notice, like others were saying that Fish TB was slow progressing and in humans it shows up as a skin rash. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Lawler_Tank_Safety.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30203	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Urgent! Tb? follow up

Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30204	From: Margie	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that has been the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a plant that it may be nothing. Just don't want anything to start...  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it could simply have low water pressure. What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe flood water has gotten into the water system? You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; actual bad water would throw off some parameters. You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. And thanks for the help.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30205	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Book Abstracts

I also have a copy of  Baensch Aquarium Atlas (Vol. 1) which I use and like a lot.  One thing I have noticed that there is a discrepancy between this book and most other references on the length of adult fish.  For instance Trichogaster trichopterus and Trichogaster leerii are listed as 4" adult length whereas most other references list them as 6".  I personally have never seen either one in 6" length and think that 4" is more realistic.  Am I missing something here are is that the way you read it.  I couldn't find any explanation as to how fish were measured in Baensch's book. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:06:43 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Abstracts I have a new bookcase and I am in the process of reshelving my fish books. While I was doing some books the other day, I thought that it may be of interest to at least some of those here if I put up some abstracts or short reviews of the books that are (or should be) readily available, plus a few important books that are out of print, but you may find with some diligence at used book stores or book sales held by various organizations. An example would be one that I highly recommend, " Baensch Aquarium Atlas (Vol. 1)", Hans A. Baensch and Rudiger Riehl.. Currently in print in both hardcover and soft cover versions. "This book contains the most complete information on over 600 of the most common freshwater aquarium fishes & over 100 plants. Large, clear color photos of each fish and plant make browsing a pleasure. "I really liked the plant section. There is information on physical characteristics, aquarium conditions & difficulty keeping. They are grouped by family & separated from the fish for easy reference. "Conveniently, this book uses detailed text instead of symbols to describe the fish & aquarium conditions. Some information includes habitat, behavior, feeding, breeding, physical characteristics, maintenance & difficulty keeping. "Both scientific & common names are given & the fish are grouped by family. Good general information on caring for the fish as well setting up & maintaining the aquarium is also included." Stolen from Amazon.com, written by Angel Lee. Angel does not mention the 60+ page section on setting up and maintaining an aquarium, which is quite well written. There is a much shorter section on keeping and maintaining plants. A good choice for both the novice and advanced aquarist. Translated from the German. Quite obviously, I will try to stay away from books, that, while interesting, really do not have much to do with the hobby other than from an historical, taxonomy, or other similar viewpoint, such as George Albert Boulanger's " Catalogue of the Fresh Water Fishes of Africa in the British Museum". (But, if you are really curious about it, here it is: "The first volume of this Catalogue contains the descriptions of 302 species and the enumeration of 3380 specimens. The second volume deals with the bulk of the Cyprinidae and the whole of the Siluridae, the number of species and specimens amounts to 428 and 4434 respectively. Volume III includes a considerable number of Families, belonging to the Suborders Symbranchii, Apodes, Haplomi, Scombresoces, Lophobranchii, and Acanthopterygii. The scope of Volume IV of the present Catalogue is in accordance with the anticipation expressed in the Preface and Introduction of its Predecessor. ") [You don't even want to know what a set of the original four volumes would cost, if you can find one in good condition.] If you have interest, I'll post these as I have the time. \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30206	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up

Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or possibly something poured into the tank by accident? Have you added any new fish or plants recently? What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and GH and KH if you have them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

When you say all numbers are 0.0... is that including nitrates? It's very rare for a tank to have 0.0 nitrates unless there are enough plants to handle all of the ammonia created by the fish and decaying detritus... especially since you've been without power for several days now so the plants are not using up as much of the nitrogenous compounds (ammonia is one of them). Double check your nitrate levels. Which brand test kit do you use? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that has been the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a plant that it may be nothing. Just don't want anything to start...  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it could simply have low water pressure. What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe flood water has gotten into the water system? You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; actual bad water would throw off some parameters. You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@... <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. And thanks for the help.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30208	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? Tania

I would get the remaining healthy fish out of that tank until you can figure out what is wrong. Harry --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 1:45 PM Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or possibly something poured into the tank by accident? Have you added any new fish or plants recently? What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and GH and KH if you have them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... ry.net Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30209	From: hank voss	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Book Abstracts

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy M Jim: It might be a typo because over the last 65 yrs ive seen many that were 6" in length, way to many to be a rare occurance. Regards Hank ------------------------------------- cHaney <mchaneyjm@...> wrote: > > I also have a copy of  Baensch Aquarium Atlas (Vol. 1) which I use and like a lot.  One thing I have noticed that there is a discrepancy between this book and most other references on the length of adult fish.  For instance Trichogaster trichopterus and Trichogaster leerii are listed as 4" adult length whereas most other references list them as 6".  I personally have never seen either one in 6" length and think that 4" is more realistic.  Am I missing something here are is that the way you read it.  I couldn't find any explanation as to how fish were measured in Baensch's book. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30210	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Book Abstracts

The best way is to measure body length only... from the tip of the mouth to the peduncle (base of the tail). There is no reason to measure tail fins since a long finned fish has no more body mass than a comparably sized short finned fish. Kind of like hair on our heads. Someone with a mohawk isn't "taller" than someone without a mohawk. I was reading the online Baensch Aquarium Atlas, on Google Books, a little and I scrolled around a little but couldn't find the page where they explain all of their profile acronyms. Most, I could figure out but there were some that I'm not sure about. Mongabay has the Three-Spot Gourami (T. trochopterus) as growing to 6" and the Pearl Gourami (T. leerii) as only growing to 5". http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Trichogaster%20trichopterus.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Trichogaster_leerii.html I'd be a little "leerii" of the 4" length. LOL Sorry... can't pass up a good pun! Also realize that a HUGE percentage of fish that we keep in aquariums will NEVER reach their full size potential due to the stunting that takes place while they are still fry/juvis at the farms, wholesalers and retailers. Fish, like most other animals and humans, should grow the most/fastest during their fry/juvi months/years so it is even more important to have them in adequate water volume during these times. And then many hobbyists also have undersized tanks or overstocked tanks which further contribute to the stunting of the fish since we get most of our fish while they are still juvis. This continued stunting also contributes to the ill health and early deaths quite often as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Book Abstracts I also have a copy of Baensch Aquarium Atlas (Vol. 1) which I use and like a lot. One thing I have noticed that there is a discrepancy between this book and most other references on the length of adult fish. For instance Trichogaster trichopterus and Trichogaster leerii are listed as 4" adult length whereas most other references list them as 6". I personally have never seen either one in 6" length and think that 4" is more realistic. Am I missing something here are is that the way you read it. I couldn't find any explanation as to how fish were measured in Baensch's book. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:06:43 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Abstracts I have a new bookcase and I am in the process of reshelving my fish books. While I was doing some books the other day, I thought that it may be of interest to at least some of those here if I put up some abstracts or short reviews of the books that are (or should be) readily available, plus a few important books that are out of print, but you may find with some diligence at used book stores or book sales held by various organizations. An example would be one that I highly recommend, " Baensch Aquarium Atlas (Vol. 1)", Hans A. Baensch and Rudiger Riehl.. Currently in print in both hardcover and soft cover versions. "This book contains the most complete information on over 600 of the most common freshwater aquarium fishes & over 100 plants. Large, clear color photos of each fish and plant make browsing a pleasure. "I really liked the plant section. There is information on physical characteristics, aquarium conditions & difficulty keeping. They are grouped by family & separated from the fish for easy reference. "Conveniently, this book uses detailed text instead of symbols to describe the fish & aquarium conditions. Some information includes habitat, behavior, feeding, breeding, physical characteristics, maintenance & difficulty keeping. "Both scientific & common names are given & the fish are grouped by family. Good general information on caring for the fish as well setting up & maintaining the aquarium is also included." Stolen from Amazon.com, written by Angel Lee. Angel does not mention the 60+ page section on setting up and maintaining an aquarium, which is quite well written. There is a much shorter section on keeping and maintaining plants. A good choice for both the novice and advanced aquarist. Translated from the German. Quite obviously, I will try to stay away from books, that, while interesting, really do not have much to do with the hobby other than from an historical, taxonomy, or other similar viewpoint, such as George Albert Boulanger's " Catalogue of the Fresh Water Fishes of Africa in the British Museum". (But, if you are really curious about it, here it is: "The first volume of this Catalogue contains the descriptions of 302 species and the enumeration of 3380 specimens. The second volume deals with the bulk of the Cyprinidae and the whole of the Siluridae, the number of species and specimens amounts to 428 and 4434 respectively. Volume III includes a considerable number of Families, belonging to the Suborders Symbranchii, Apodes, Haplomi, Scombresoces, Lophobranchii, and Acanthopterygii. The scope of Volume IV of the present Catalogue is in accordance with the anticipation expressed in the Preface and Introduction of its Predecessor. ") [You don't even want to know what a set of the original four volumes would cost, if you can find one in good condition.] If you have interest, I'll post these as I have the time. \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:19 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 1:11:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? Tania

Good point Harry. Sometimes I take the obvious for granted but it is always a good thing to point out the basics. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? Tania I would get the remaining healthy fish out of that tank until you can figure out what is wrong. Harry --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 1:45 PM Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or possibly something poured into the tank by accident? Have you added any new fish or plants recently? What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and GH and KH if you have them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackber> ry.net Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 1:05:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 1:15:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30212	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? Tania/Lenny

Some folks might try to fix the problem by adding meds and chemicals. and make the problem worse or get it to the point where you can't figure out what is going on. Sometimes the obvious works better. Harry --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? Tania To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 2:15 PM Good point Harry. Sometimes I take the obvious for granted but it is always a good thing to point out the basics. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? Tania I would get the remaining healthy fish out of that tank until you can figure out what is wrong. Harry --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 1:45 PM Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or possibly something poured into the tank by accident? Have you added any new fish or plants recently? What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and GH and KH if you have them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackber> ry.net Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 1:05:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 1:15:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30213	From: Chris	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30214	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris

Don't do anything. There is nothing wrong with 7.8. Harry --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: From: Chris <crjm28@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 2:31 PM I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30215	From: Margie	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

I know that is what I thought, I had Pet's Mart do a follow up test today also and they got the same readings I did. API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I only have one live plant and it is the Chinese Reed plant.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/21/2008 12:58:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae When you say all numbers are 0.0... is that including nitrates? It's very rare for a tank to have 0.0 nitrates unless there are enough plants to handle all of the ammonia created by the fish and decaying detritus... especially since you've been without power for several days now so the plants are not using up as much of the nitrogenous compounds (ammonia is one of them). Double check your nitrate levels. Which brand test kit do you use? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that has been the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a plant that it may be nothing. Just don't want anything to start...  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it could simply have low water pressure. What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe flood water has gotten into the water system? You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; actual bad water would throw off some parameters. You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@... <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. And thanks for the help.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30216	From: Chris	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris

what if I want to put fish in that want 6.8? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Don't do anything. There is nothing wrong with 7.8. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: > From: Chris <crjm28@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 2:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower > > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30217	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris/again

"You can't always get what you want" Fish will adjust. If lowering the pH is critical use peat, oak leaves etc.. Why don't you decide first on the fish and we can go on from there. Harry  --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: From: Chris <crjm28@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 3:12 PM what if I want to put fish in that want 6.8? --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, harry perry <harryfisherman@ ...> wrote: > > Don't do anything. There is nothing wrong with 7.8. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: > From: Chris <crjm28@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 2:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower > > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30218	From: Chris	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris/again

that is the hard part to decide. I'm stuck on several fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > "You can't always get what you want" Fish will adjust. If lowering the pH is critical use peat, oak leaves etc.. Why don't you decide first on the fish and we can go on from there. > > Harry  > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: > From: Chris <crjm28@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 3:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > what if I want to put fish in that want 6.8? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, harry perry <harryfisherman@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Don't do anything. There is nothing wrong with 7.8. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@> wrote: > > > From: Chris <crjm28@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 2:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm > > gonna lower > > > > > > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > > > > > > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30219	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Book Abstracts

Fish length is an interesting topic. Fish in nature can reach one size, and those kept in captivity can reach another size, either larger or, most often smaller. There are two methods of measuring the length of a fish. You can measure from the tip of the snout to the tip of the caudal fin, or, you can measure from the tip of the snout to the caudal peduncle--where the caudal fin attached to the fish's body. The former is known as Total Length (TL) and the latter is called Standard Length (SL). SL is the more accurate measurement, since a fish can have extensions from the caudal that grow to varying lengths, may have caudal fins that have been nipped. The male caudal can be different from the female caudal, etc. As for Baensch, without looking in the book, I believe his measurements are SL. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Book Abstracts I also have a copy of  Baensch Aquarium Atlas (Vol. 1) which I use and like a lot.  One thing I have noticed that there is a discrepancy between this book and most other references on the length of adult fish.  For instance Trichogaster trichopterus and Trichogaster leerii are listed as 4" adult length whereas most other references list them as 6".  I personally have never seen either one in 6" length and think that 4" is more realistic.  Am I missing something here are is that the way you read it.  I couldn't find any explanation as to how fish were measured in Baensch's book. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:06:43 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Abstracts I have a new bookcase and I am in the process of reshelving my fish books. While I was doing some books the other day, I thought that it may be of interest to at least some of those here if I put up some abstracts or short reviews of the books that are (or should be) readily available, plus a few important books that are out of print, but you may find with some diligence at used book stores or book sales held by various organizations. An example would be one that I highly recommend, " Baensch Aquarium Atlas (Vol. 1)", Hans A. Baensch and Rudiger Riehl.. Currently in print in both hardcover and soft cover versions. "This book contains the most complete information on over 600 of the most common freshwater aquarium fishes & over 100 plants. Large, clear color photos of each fish and plant make browsing a pleasure. "I really liked the plant section. There is information on physical characteristics, aquarium conditions & difficulty keeping. They are grouped by family & separated from the fish for easy reference. "Conveniently, this book uses detailed text instead of symbols to describe the fish & aquarium conditions. Some information includes habitat, behavior, feeding, breeding, physical characteristics, maintenance & difficulty keeping. "Both scientific & common names are given & the fish are grouped by family. Good general information on caring for the fish as well setting up & maintaining the aquarium is also included." Stolen from Amazon.com, written by Angel Lee. Angel does not mention the 60+ page section on setting up and maintaining an aquarium, which is quite well written. There is a much shorter section on keeping and maintaining plants. A good choice for both the novice and advanced aquarist. Translated from the German. Quite obviously, I will try to stay away from books, that, while interesting, really do not have much to do with the hobby other than from an historical, taxonomy, or other similar viewpoint, such as George Albert Boulanger's " Catalogue of the Fresh Water Fishes of Africa in the British Museum". (But, if you are really curious about it, here it is: "The first volume of this Catalogue contains the descriptions of 302 species and the enumeration of 3380 specimens. The second volume deals with the bulk of the Cyprinidae and the whole of the Siluridae, the number of species and specimens amounts to 428 and 4434 respectively. Volume III includes a considerable number of Families, belonging to the Suborders Symbranchii, Apodes, Haplomi, Scombresoces, Lophobranchii, and Acanthopterygii. The scope of Volume IV of the present Catalogue is in accordance with the anticipation expressed in the Preface and Introduction of its Predecessor. ") [You don't even want to know what a set of the original four volumes would cost, if you can find one in good condition.] If you have interest, I'll post these as I have the time. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30220	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. /So Chris

Get them all. There is no such thing as too many tanks. Harry --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: From: Chris <crjm28@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris/again To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 3:44 PM that is the hard part to decide. I'm stuck on several fish. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, harry perry <harryfisherman@ ...> wrote: > > "You can't always get what you want" Fish will adjust. If lowering the pH is critical use peat, oak leaves etc.. Why don't you decide first on the fish and we can go on from there. > > Harry  > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: > From: Chris <crjm28@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 3:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > what if I want to put fish in that want 6.8? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, harry perry <harryfisherman@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Don't do anything. There is nothing wrong with 7.8. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@> wrote: > > > From: Chris <crjm28@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 2:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm > > gonna lower > > > > > > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > > > > > > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30221	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

Chris, You cannot avoid chemicals. pH is a specific measurement of the chemistry of the water. To adjust it, you need to use sodium bicarbonate to raise the pH and phosphoric acid or carbonic acid to lower the pH. A source of the latter is bubbling CO2 through the water which will react with the water and produce carbonic acid, which lowers pH. This is controllable, but to hope that it would lower the pH by 10 points, from 7.8 to 6.8 is probably a stretch. The stuff you see in the stores usually use phosphoric acid, which will lower pH, but also add phosphorus to your tank which may promote algal growth (as well as plant growth of the plants you might want to keep). Still, though, I do not advise the lowering of the pH. Most fish are listed in the literature with a pH range they can live in. They can survive pH out of this range, though they may not be in top form doing so. Many of the fish found in shops are raised in waters that are not within the pH range they are most comfortable with, so, with a proper acclimation protocol, you can keep those fish in your tank. Much better though, to seek out fish that like the pH you have. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30222	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris/again

Where are you getting the fish from? If they are from your area they are probably already used to the pH in your area. If you are reading up on a fish and getting your pH information about them from a book or a website take it with skepticism. The guy leading the collecting trip I was on told me he used to always carry around test kits in the Amazon tributaries and carefully record what that areas water conditions were. Then he stopped doing it once he realized the pH was going to change the very next time it rained and the same fish were in the same river or oxbow lake. The fish he imported adapted to the water conditions back home. Harry has some very good advice! Buy fish that are ready for your tap water, find out where you are getting them from and what their current water conditions are. -Mike that is the hard part to decide. I'm stuck on several fish. -----Original Message----- From: Chris <crjm28@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris/again that is the hard part to decide. I'm stuck on several fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > "You can't always get what you want" Fish will adjust. If lowering the pH is critical use peat, oak leaves etc.. Why don't you decide first on the fish and we can go on from there. > > Harry  > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@.. .> wrote: > From: Chris <crjm28@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 3:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > what if I want to put fish in that want 6.8? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, harry perry <harryfisherman@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Don't do anything. There is nothing wrong with 7.8. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@> wrote: > > > From: Chris <crjm28@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 2:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm > > gonna lower > > > > > > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > > > > > > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 0A> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30223	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? Tania/Lenny

Excellent point Harry! I meant to post last night that it is important to not do too many changes at once to a tank. If and when something goes bad it makes it difficult to nail down exactly what the cause was. I used to have some "fix all" chemicals from my first year keeping fish. Now I have no idea where any of those bottles ended up in the house. Long as I know where the Clor Am X powder is I am ok. -Mike Some folks might try to fix the problem by adding meds and chemicals. and make the problem worse or get it to the point where you can't figure out what is going on. Sometimes the obvious works better. Harry -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 11:28 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? Tania/Lenny Some folks might try to fix the problem by adding meds and chemicals. and make the problem worse or get it to the point where you can't figure out what is going on. Sometimes the obvious works better. Harry --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? Tania To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 2:15 PM Good point Harry. Sometimes I take the obvious for granted but it is always a good thing to point out the basics. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? Tania I would get the remaining healthy fish out of that tank until you can figure out what is wrong. Harry --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 1:45 PM Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or possibly something poured into the tank by accident? Have you added any new fish or plants recently? What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and GH and KH if you have them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackber> ry.net Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 1:05:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 1:15:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30224	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

Lowering pH really doesn’t work very well better to choose fish that do well with a pH of 7.8. African cichlids for example. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30225	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up

Lenny, I added a sort of water lilly I think? Ans new neon tetras, stupid me didn't quarantine. I stopped by lfs and got Parasite Clear + Maracyn2,I already used quick cure. My last water check is posted on Mongabay 55 g Log under my name Tania Amthor, You will find the info you requested. LeT me know if you can see it. I don't believe anything chemical got in there, I did add some quick cure and try to separate everyone. I have not added the other meds yet. Don't want to OD? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:45:12 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or possibly something poured into the tank by accident? Have you added any new fish or plants recently? What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and GH and KH if you have them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30226	From: lizkakot	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area)

Thank you. The goldfish idea is good. I don't even think there is a club, but i might post about it in the local fish store. the fact that they are cold water is a major reason I can't keep them in the same tank..I think I might get a used 50 gallon tank for my fish, and pass down the 30 gallon to my goldfish. That would satisfy the inches/gallon law. as far as "unknown" fish, i do know what they are, but only in Russian. I have 4 otocyncles (less then in inch full grown) and 2 karydoras (about an inch each, will grow to 2). I clean about 10% of the water from bottom with the little poo sucker tool. It works great.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30227	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

I know you're out here a lot but for the sake of other readers... why do you want to lower it? What kind of fish do you have or plan on having? A pH of 7.8 really is a good place to be for most fish especially since the ecology of a tank will naturally lower the pH probably into the lower 7's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 1:35:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:14:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30228	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris

The overwhelming majority of common tropical fish and cold water fish like a pH above 7.0 and the ones that might like 6.8 will usually like a range of 6.5 to 7.5 so the 7.8 is still good since it will come down to the lower 7's anyhow once the ecology of the tank (nitrifying bacteria, other bacteria, fish, plants, etc.) start utilizing the KH and trace elements/minerals that generally create the higher pH level in the first place. What are your tap/source water baseline test results for right out the tap, 24 hrs. and 48 hrs.? Check with your fish supplier to see what the fish are being bred/raised in. You may find they are already acclimated to 7.5+ so you might be doing more harm than good by lowering your pH. Altering pH levels and other water chemistry is best left to once you have more experience. From what I recall, you are still fishless cycling your tank or cycling with fish for your first tank. I guess another thing would be that if you were experienced already, you'd know the answer! ;-) Since you don't know the answer, you're not ready to start altering the pH levels just yet. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris what if I want to put fish in that want 6.8? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Don't do anything. There is nothing wrong with 7.8. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: > From: Chris <crjm28@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 2:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower > > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 2:27:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:21:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30229	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Well, maybe your "brown algae" isn't diatoms but rather a green algae that just looks brown due to lack of lighting. It could be what is saving you right now since the algae is God's way of growing in a tank that needs the algae help to control the nitrogenous waste in a tank. If your fish are doing OK and your test results are accurate, then I wouldn't worry about things. Wait till the power is back on and the water is safe to use and then do a couple of 25% PWC's, one a day maybe for a few days, then see where you stand and we can work on the algae issues then, God works in mysterious ways! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I know that is what I thought, I had Pet's Mart do a follow up test today also and they got the same readings I did. API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I only have one live plant and it is the Chinese Reed plant.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/21/2008 12:58:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae When you say all numbers are 0.0... is that including nitrates? It's very rare for a tank to have 0.0 nitrates unless there are enough plants to handle all of the ammonia created by the fish and decaying detritus... especially since you've been without power for several days now so the plants are not using up as much of the nitrogenous compounds (ammonia is one of them). Double check your nitrate levels. Which brand test kit do you use? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that has been the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a plant that it may be nothing. Just don't want anything to start...  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it could simply have low water pressure. What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe flood water has gotten into the water system? You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; actual bad water would throw off some parameters. You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@... <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. And thanks for the help.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30230	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris/again

Which ones? Names (common and/or scientific) would be helpful instead of us having to ask... I know I've asked before which kind of fish you are interested in. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris/again that is the hard part to decide. I'm stuck on several fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > "You can't always get what you want" Fish will adjust. If lowering the pH is critical use peat, oak leaves etc.. Why don't you decide first on the fish and we can go on from there. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: > From: Chris <crjm28@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 3:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > what if I want to put fish in that want 6.8? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, harry perry <harryfisherman@ > ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Don't do anything. There is nothing wrong with 7.8. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@> wrote: > > > From: Chris <crjm28@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 2:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm > > gonna lower > > > > > > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > > > > > > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 2:57:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:27:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30231	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

The big question is whether the 7.8 is right out the tap or in a tank that is still cycling? The pH level will bounce around during a cycle process until the cycling is completed. So until we know where the 7.8 number is coming from, all the rest of our posts are just speculation. And then, once the tank is fully stocked, the pH will go down even further so the water may end up in the low 7's which wouldn't be good for the African cichlids any longer unless he started buffering up the pH and hardness levels. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? Lowering pH really doesn’t work very well better to choose fish that do well with a pH of 7.8. African cichlids for example. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 4:28:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:33:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30232	From: laraandgirls	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area

Thank's Ray I've tried all of the stores in a 30 mile radius and no one will take them..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30233	From: Erik	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium

During the last 2 vacuums of my aquarium's gravel I've noticed some weird little creatures that are coming up with the water sucked out with the python. They are round, very very small (probably 1 mm or a little less than that), and move under their own power in the water I suck out that puddles in the sink. A lot of them came up today, hundreds of them. They are not free floating as far as I can tell and are only in the gravel. My fish appear to be in perfect health, nothing visually wrong and no behavioral problems, it's a happy tank. My tank is a 55 gal. freshwater, I perform weekly maintenance on it, good filtration and a lot of bubbles with top flow. I was thinking they might be water hog lice but I can't find a picture of those so I'm not sure. Anyone have an idea what they might be and how bad the risk to my fish is? Erik

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30234	From: Chris	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

I figured that that would be too alkaline for the tank. I also would like to lower it to a more nuetral ph for a community tank to fit all fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30235	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up

I won't stop trying, until I take my last dying breathe, to beat down that fish-killing "inches/gallon law", as you call it, that perpetually rears it's ugly head in the fish keeping hobby. There is no such thing (and definitely not a law) that works for fish that get over 3" as full grown adults. The 1 gallon per inch guideline ONLY works for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. See my blog article about "New rules/guidelines to replace the fish-killing 1" rule" I did break down fish into four size groups with more specific guidelines as far as water volume and tank size for each size group but there are still exceptions to my guidelines and mine are minimum guidelines as well. It's best to not base the life of your pets on minimum guidelines. More is better!!! I knew if I asked enough questions, I'd come closer to figuring things out. In all likelihood, your new fish and possibly the plant brought in some new pathogens that your current fish did not have an immune system resistance to. Please provide the link to the Mongabay log file. I'm glad they provide such a tool but I've never seen it before. I did a search on all of Mongabay for your name but nothing showed up. While I highly recommend the fish profiles, etc., on Mongabay, I don't spend a lot of time surfing through the rest of the site as I get a crick in my neck, from leaning my head, because the site leans so far to the left. LOL The fish info is good... their political leanings leave a lot to be desired... by me! ;-) You should definitely follow Ray's and others advice and if you have Q-tanks, separate each of the sick fish into it's own Q-tank, if possible or if you only have one, then put all the sick fish into the one tank and treat it. No use in subjecting possible healthy fish to all of the meds. Just like when you walk into a hospital, they don't put you on Chemo-therapy just because others might be on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Lenny, I added a sort of water lilly I think? Ans new neon tetras, stupid me didn't quarantine. I stopped by lfs and got Parasite Clear + Maracyn2,I already used quick cure. My last water check is posted on Mongabay 55 g Log under my name Tania Amthor, You will find the info you requested. LeT me know if you can see it. I don't believe anything chemical got in there, I did add some quick cure and try to separate everyone. I have not added the other meds yet. Don't want to OD? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:45:12 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or possibly something poured into the tank by accident? Have you added any new fish or plants recently? What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and GH and KH if you have them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 4:49:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:59:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30236	From: Chris	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris

So far I'm really cycling. All I have done was kept the water topped off and the heater on. I added a spider plant baby to the tank to get it started on rooting almost a week ago and its kinda at a neutral buoyancy right now and I'm surprised its alive after being underwater for so long, and root growth is starting to become apparent. So that is it. I don't think I added water the same day I tested the water, so I can't give you tha I haven't had a chance to take tests of the tank and the tap, but I will get that tap reading in a few days when I get off my lazy butt and do it. Aside from my fish, I'm also interested in the hydroponics end of my experiment. Not aquarium plants either. I have 2 spider plants and am planning on picking up some low light plants aswell Plants generally don't like 7.8 and I'm afraid of nutrient lock, but saying that my plants will lower the ph, then it should be just fine then. I'm really anxious to add fish to the tank. I was asking an aquaponics friend some questions, and he said that it is plug and play for him. He starts 1/4 of the amount of fish he will end up with and as long as its planted in the beginning, the system only needs to cycle for 2 weeks. The vegetable garden eats up everything the fish throw at it. I only hope that I have bought enough plants when I start. If I didn't have to worry about my hanging filter, I would throw some seeds in there and let them germinate on their own, but I don't have a grow light to give my full sun annual seedlings when I place those into the bed....atleast not for a few weeks or months. Who would like to see pictures of its progression? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The overwhelming majority of common tropical fish and cold water fish like a > pH above 7.0 and the ones that might like 6.8 will usually like a range of > 6.5 to 7.5 so the 7.8 is still good since it will come down to the lower 7's > anyhow once the ecology of the tank (nitrifying bacteria, other bacteria, > fish, plants, etc.) start utilizing the KH and trace elements/minerals that > generally create the higher pH level in the first place. > > What are your tap/source water baseline test results for right out the tap, > 24 hrs. and 48 hrs.? > > Check with your fish supplier to see what the fish are being bred/raised in. > You may find they are already acclimated to 7.5+ so you might be doing more > harm than good by lowering your pH. > > Altering pH levels and other water chemistry is best left to once you have > more experience. From what I recall, you are still fishless cycling your > tank or cycling with fish for your first tank. > > I guess another thing would be that if you were experienced already, you'd > know the answer! ;-) Since you don't know the answer, you're not ready to > start altering the pH levels just yet. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 2:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?/Chris > > what if I want to put fish in that want 6.8? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > harry perry <harryfisherman@> > wrote: > > > > Don't do anything. There is nothing wrong with 7.8. > > > > Harry > > > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Chris <crjm28@> wrote: > > From: Chris <crjm28@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 2:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm > gonna lower > > > > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > > > > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 > Tested on: 9/21/2008 2:27:12 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 > Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:21:42 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30237	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? /Tania, mixing meds.

Some years ago I had a 10 gallon one fish had fungus and another had been injured. I decided to treat both ailments at the same time. So I added Jungle Labs fungus fizz tablet and Melafix with in a half hour all 4 fish were dying. The two injured and two healthy fish. Luckily I had another tank to put them in. All four survieved.  Please don't ever mix medications. You can never tell for sure what the reaction might be. You have mixed 3 medications already. How do you know what is really happening?. Harry   --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 7:59 PM I won't stop trying, until I take my last dying breathe, to beat down that fish-killing "inches/gallon law", as you call it, that perpetually rears it's ugly head in the fish keeping hobby. There is no such thing (and definitely not a law) that works for fish that get over 3" as full grown adults. The 1 gallon per inch guideline ONLY works for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. See my blog article about "New rules/guidelines to replace the fish-killing 1" rule" I did break down fish into four size groups with more specific guidelines as far as water volume and tank size for each size group but there are still exceptions to my guidelines and mine are minimum guidelines as well. It's best to not base the life of your pets on minimum guidelines. More is better!!! I knew if I asked enough questions, I'd come closer to figuring things out. In all likelihood, your new fish and possibly the plant brought in some new pathogens that your current fish did not have an immune system resistance to. Please provide the link to the Mongabay log file. I'm glad they provide such a tool but I've never seen it before. I did a search on all of Mongabay for your name but nothing showed up. While I highly recommend the fish profiles, etc., on Mongabay, I don't spend a lot of time surfing through the rest of the site as I get a crick in my neck, from leaning my head, because the site leans so far to the left. LOL The fish info is good... their political leanings leave a lot to be desired... by me! ;-) You should definitely follow Ray's and others advice and if you have Q-tanks, separate each of the sick fish into it's own Q-tank, if possible or if you only have one, then put all the sick fish into the one tank and treat it. No use in subjecting possible healthy fish to all of the meds. Just like when you walk into a hospital, they don't put you on Chemo-therapy just because others might be on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... ry.net Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Lenny, I added a sort of water lilly I think? Ans new neon tetras, stupid me didn't quarantine. I stopped by lfs and got Parasite Clear + Maracyn2,I already used quick cure. My last water check is posted on Mongabay 55 g Log under my name Tania Amthor, You will find the info you requested. LeT me know if you can see it. I don't believe anything chemical got in there, I did add some quick cure and try to separate everyone. I have not added the other meds yet. Don't want to OD? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:45:12 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or possibly something poured into the tank by accident? Have you added any new fish or plants recently? What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and GH and KH if you have them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... ry.net <mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry .net> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 4:49:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:59:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30238	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area)

OK. I didn't know I could read Russian but those would be Otocinclus and Corydoras in English. I expected Russian spelling to be quite different. ;-) The next thing you need to do is find out which species of each genus that you have. There are about a half dozen Otos that are common and dozens of Corys that are common. While I believe the common Otos all remain under 2", the Cory's can get much larger than 2", depending on the species. You might want to peruse a Google Image search of Corydoras until you find the one(s) that look most like yours and then read their Mongabay or Planet Catfish profiles for further identification methods... just to be sure of what you have. With all of the fish that you have in your 30G, you should be doing at least daily 25% PWC's... at least until you rehome the goldfish and the bala shark. Then you could probably cut back on PWC's. Doing only 10% a day isn't going to help much (only about 45% a week) but every little bit does help a little. While you're doing 10%, just bump it up to 25%, seven days a week. That's almost like doing more than a 100% PWC a week compared to only 45% with the 10% PWC's. DO NOT do large PWC's... and especially not over 25% right now since your fish have become acclimated to the water in the tank so you don't want to change it too much, too fast. If you are using a manual gravel vacuum siphon, just do two 5G buckets (a little over 3G in each bucket) instead of one 5G bucket (with 3G in it). One day, we'll all have our own wells where we can plumb the well directly to our tanks so they are getting a constant supply of fresh water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lizkakot Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: WANTED: Fish Tank/ Aquarium (Santa Cruz Area) Thank you. The goldfish idea is good. I don't even think there is a club, but i might post about it in the local fish store. the fact that they are cold water is a major reason I can't keep them in the same tank..I think I might get a used 50 gallon tank for my fish, and pass down the 30 gallon to my goldfish. That would satisfy the inches/gallon law. as far as "unknown" fish, i do know what they are, but only in Russian. I have 4 otocyncles (less then in inch full grown) and 2 karydoras (about an inch each, will grow to 2). I clean about 10% of the water from bottom with the little poo sucker tool. It works great. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 4:59:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 7:17:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30239	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area

Dang... sounds like them stores need a little Southern Hospitality learnin'. I thought PA was the "Brotherly Love" State... or is that just in Philadelphia? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laraandgirls Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area Thank's Ray I've tried all of the stores in a 30 mile radius and no one will take them.. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 7:22:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30240	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium

Below are some websites I have in my favorites folder of "critters" that commonly show up in our aquariums. They are probably snails but could be something else. Yours could also be daphnia but look over all of the images below and let us know. Remember that when you end up with some type of "infestation", it's usually a direct "natural" response to something else that wasn't going right in the tank. You may not have been vacuuming your gravel thoroughly enough so nature provided a critter to help eat up the excess detritus you were missing. Just like algae grows when there are excess nutrients in the water like nitrates and/or phosphates. In no particular order (supposed to be alphabetical): http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml http://members.aol.com/larval1/critters.htm http://www.caudata.org/daphnia/ http://members.aol.com/mkohl2/Fwlimpets.html http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Erik Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium During the last 2 vacuums of my aquarium's gravel I've noticed some weird little creatures that are coming up with the water sucked out with the python. They are round, very very small (probably 1 mm or a little less than that), and move under their own power in the water I suck out that puddles in the sink. A lot of them came up today, hundreds of them. They are not free floating as far as I can tell and are only in the gravel. My fish appear to be in perfect health, nothing visually wrong and no behavioral problems, it's a happy tank. My tank is a 55 gal. freshwater, I perform weekly maintenance on it, good filtration and a lot of bubbles with top flow. I was thinking they might be water hog lice but I can't find a picture of those so I'm not sure. Anyone have an idea what they might be and how bad the risk to my fish is? Erik ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:41:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 7:32:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

Most fish live in more alkaline waters or at least in waters that have a pH range from 6.5 to 7.5. While you say your pH is 7.8, you haven't answered my question about where this number is coming from. Please see my last couple of posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 6:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do? I figured that that would be too alkaline for the tank. I also would like to lower it to a more nuetral ph for a community tank to fit all fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:41:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 7:33:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30242	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area

It's the keystone state, Philly is the only one with brotherly love. She is way west of Philly, I googled the location in case I could find someone to take them, but over 300 miles from me. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area Dang... sounds like them stores need a little Southern Hospitality learnin'. I thought PA was the "Brotherly Love" State... or is that just in Philadelphia? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laraandgirls Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area Thank's Ray I've tried all of the stores in a 30 mile radius and no one will take them.. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 7:22:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30243	From: Margie	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

The power was out for three days only.... and the brown dusty stuff (algae)is on a live plant and one not a real plant, both under the one light I turn on. But at the top near the where the light is when on. I have switched to the other light for a while. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...>: -------------- Well, maybe your "brown algae" isn't diatoms but rather a green algae that just looks brown due to lack of lighting. It could be what is saving you right now since the algae is God's way of growing in a tank that needs the algae help to > control the nitrogenous waste in a tank. > If your fish are doing OK and your test results are accurate, then I wouldn't worry about things. Wait till the power is back on and the water is safe to use and then do a couple of 25% PWC's, one a day maybe for a few days, then see > where you stand and we can work on the algae issues then, > > God works in mysterious ways! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - > Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Margie > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > I know that is what I thought, I had Pet's Mart do a follow up test today also > and they got the same readings I did. > API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I only have one live plant and it is the Chinese > Reed plant. > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 9/21/2008 12:58:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > When you say all numbers are 0.0... is that including nitrates? It's very rare > for a tank to have 0.0 nitrates unless there are enough plants to handle all of > the ammonia created by the fish and decaying detritus... > especially since you've been without power for several days now so the plants > are not using up as much of the nitrogenous compounds (ammonia is one of them). > > Double check your nitrate levels. Which brand test kit do you use? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links > to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that has been > the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a plant that it may be > nothing. Just don't want anything to start... > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- > > From: Dora Smith > Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit for your > fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it could simply have low > water pressure. > > What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is the actual > problem that water pressure is low or that they believe flood water has gotten > into the water system? > > You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; actual > bad water would throw off some parameters. > > You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. > > Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot and boil > several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margie" > > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > > I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to be boiled > for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. > And thanks for the help. > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since > your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown > algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it > persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to > see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus > > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 > Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:21 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 > Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:49:37 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 > Tested on: 9/21/2008 2:27:15 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 > Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:26:06 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30244	From: Margie	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? /Tania, mixing meds.

Hmm, same thing with human. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from harry perry <harryfisherman@...>: -------------- Some years ago I had a 10 gallon one fish had fungus and another had been injured. I decided to treat both ailments at the same time. So I added Jungle Labs fungus fizz tablet and Melafix with in a half hour all 4 fish were dying. > The two injured and two healthy fish. > Luckily I had another tank to put them in. All four survieved. Please don't ever mix medications. You can never tell for sure what the reaction might be. > You have mixed 3 medications already. How do you know what is really happening?. > > Harry > > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 7:59 PM > > > > > > > > > > > I won't stop trying, until I take my last dying breathe, to beat > down that > > fish-killing "inches/gallon law", as you call it, that perpetually rears > > it's ugly head in the fish keeping hobby. > > > > There is no such thing (and definitely not a law) that works for fish that > > get over 3" as full grown adults. The 1 gallon per inch guideline ONLY > > works for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. See my > > blog article about "New rules/guidelines to replace the fish-killing 1" > > rule" I did break down fish into four size groups with more specific > > guidelines as far as water volume and tank size for each size group but > > there are still exceptions to my guidelines and mine are minimum guidelines > > as well. It's best to not base the life of your pets on minimum guidelines. > > More is better!!! > > > > I knew if I asked enough questions, I'd come closer to figuring things out. > > > > In all likelihood, your new fish and possibly the plant brought in some new > > pathogens that your current fish did not have an immune system resistance > > to. > > > > Please provide the link to the Mongabay log file. I'm glad they provide > > such a tool but I've never seen it before. I did a search on all of > > Mongabay for your name but nothing showed up. While I highly recommend the > > fish profiles, etc., on Mongabay, I don't spend a lot of time surfing > > through the rest of the site as I get a crick in my neck, from leaning my > > head, because the site leans so far to the left. LOL The fish info is > > good... their political leanings leave a lot to be desired... by me! ;-) > > > > You should definitely follow Ray's and others advice and if you have > > Q-tanks, separate each of the sick fish into it's own Q-tank, if possible or > > if you only have one, then put all the sick fish into the one tank and treat > > it. No use in subjecting possible healthy fish to all of the meds. Just > > like when you walk into a hospital, they don't put you on Chemo-therapy just > > because others might be on it. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of bubuci@... ry.net > > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up > > > > Lenny, > > > > I added a sort of water lilly I think? Ans new neon tetras, stupid me didn't > > quarantine. I stopped by lfs and got Parasite Clear + Maracyn2,I already > > used quick cure. > > > > My last water check is posted on Mongabay 55 g Log under my name Tania > > Amthor, You will find the info you requested. LeT me know if you can see it. > > I don't believe anything chemical got in there, I did add some quick cure > > and try to separate everyone. I have not added the other meds yet. Don't > > want to OD? > > > > Worried, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:45:12 > > To: > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up > > > > Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your > > water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or > > possibly something poured into the tank by accident? > > > > Have you added any new fish or plants recently? > > > > What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and > > GH and KH if you have them? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com ] > > On Behalf Of bubuci@... ry.net > > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up > > > > Help! > > > > Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras > > and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this > > morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? > > > > Worried, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > avast! Antivirus > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 > > Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:17 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 > > Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:45:12 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > avast! Antivirus : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 > > Tested on: 9/21/2008 4:49:23 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 > > Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:59:09 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30245	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Oh OK. I didn't realize you had power back. I also remember that you can't do PWC's right now due to the boil water order. If it's growing up towards the light, then that is another sign that it's some kind of algae and probably not diatoms (commonly referred to as brown algae). It could be that you had a buildup of nitrogenous wastes during the power outage and the algae bloomed on top of those plants closest to the lighting source. It should die off since you do not seem to have a problem with excess nitrates or other nitrogenous compounds right now. From what I remember, you didn't test your water during your three days of no power so you probably had an ammonia spike during this period since your filter system wasn't working. Also, if I remember correctly, you left your filter hooked up so when the power came back on the little bit of stagnant water in the filter flowed into your tank so that might have fed some kind of an algae bloom as well. Once the water is safe again... try to find out what is unsafe about the water. I think the only reason it's unsafe is that the power supply caused the water plant to not automatically dose the water supply with chloramines so the water may still be fine for your fish... just maybe not for human consumption without boiling first to kill any possible bacteria. Remember there are tens of thousands of bacteria living in your aquarium so I doubt there is anything in the water supply worse than your tank. LOL Check with your water utility to be sure though. Once the water supply is completely safe, just get back to your maintenance routine and see if the algae goes away. If it doesn't, we can deal with it then. There's not much you can do right now since you can't do PWC's. My fish tanks went 14 days with no power and 5 weeks with no water during Katrina (2005) so you should be fine with Ike (2008). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae The power was out for three days only.... and the brown dusty stuff (algae)is on a live plant and one not a real plant, both under the one light I turn on. But at the top near the where the light is when on. I have switched to the other light for a while. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- Well, maybe your "brown algae" isn't diatoms but rather a green algae that just looks brown due to lack of lighting. It could be what is saving you right now since the algae is God's way of growing in a tank that needs the algae help to > control the nitrogenous waste in a tank. > If your fish are doing OK and your test results are accurate, then I > wouldn't worry about things. Wait till the power is back on and the > water is safe to use and then do a couple of 25% PWC's, one a day > maybe for a few days, then see where you stand and we can work on the > algae issues then, > > God works in mysterious ways! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > I know that is what I thought, I had Pet's Mart do a follow up test > today also and they got the same readings I did. > API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I only have one live plant and it is > the Chinese Reed plant. > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 9/21/2008 12:58:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > When you say all numbers are 0.0... is that including nitrates? It's > very rare for a tank to have 0.0 nitrates unless there are enough > plants to handle all of the ammonia created by the fish and decaying detritus... > especially since you've been without power for several days now so the > plants are not using up as much of the nitrogenous compounds (ammonia is one of them). > > Double check your nitrate levels. Which brand test kit do you use? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that > has been the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a > plant that it may be nothing. Just don't want anything to start... > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- > > From: Dora Smith > Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit > for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it > could simply have low water pressure. > > What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is > the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe > flood water has gotten into the water system? > > You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; > actual bad water would throw off some parameters. > > You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. > > Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot > and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margie" > > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > > I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to > be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. > And thanks for the help. > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but > since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum > up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of > weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other > measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , > .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus > > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 > 11:54:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 > 12:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , > .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 > 2:27:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 > 6:26:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 8:13:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 8:32:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30246	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

Chris, What is your rationale for wanting to lower your pH 7.8, especially since you have not even decided on what fish you want? While this latter part is question enough (not yet knowing your fish preferences), what will you do when making PWC's (partial water changes) at your present pH if you drop your tank pH? Depending upon how far you drop it, you may be subjecting your fish to pH stress differences every time you make your weekly PWC's. Its always prudent to go with the pH you're being dealt whenever possible. While most tap water supplies may average somewhat lower with a top end of around 7.6, there is nothing wrong with your pH 7.8 for most of our "average" aquarium fishes; most fishes will adapt. There are hobbyists who are being supplied water up to pH 8.5 (or more) and yet their fishes adapt. If you'll note, there has already been some recent discussion here on the foolhardiness of trying to re-adjust one's pH. Once the buffering capacity of the water has been broken, the pH can crash precipitously, seriously endangering your fish. Its so much easier on you working with your present pH and immeasureably easier on your fish, once they're adjusted and asccustomed to it. Ray P.S.: Just because the books may state that a certain species "prefers" a certain pH (which is what the species is found at in the wild), does not mean this is the only pH the species will survive at, but can be construed as a guide to breeding the fish in the easiest conditions enabling it to do so </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30247	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. /So Chris

Harry, You're so correct in your statement of there </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30248	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. /So Chris

Harry, You're so right in your statement of there being no such thing as too many tanks. Many beginners will all to soon learn there are never enough tanks -- and that goes regardless of how many tanks one already has (lol). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30249	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up

Oops, I made a mistake, its on Badmans http://badmanstropicalfish.com/tankstats/ its a nice little tank logger. You will see all the details(Tania Amthor), its the 55 G. I don't think I was over stocked and the new plants had been there for 2 wks, no issues. I really think it had to do with the new tetras which I added on Thurs I think. I did not use all 3 meds, just quick cure. I tried to separate all the fish, left the algae eaters in the sick tank (b/c I couldn't catch 'em, sorry guys!) with the neon tetras, and 1 shrimp + 1 frog (I couldn't find 'em). They all got 1/2 dose, recommended for neon tetra. I have my frogs and shrimps with an air stone and moss ball all together, no meds in a 1 G. The Gourami and 1 Betta who seem ok are together, they got some quick cure because that Betta was picking on another and was eating one of the dead fishies. Ewww! And one in an 8 oz glass, sorry guys, ill find a vase tomorrow. Lastly, 1 Betta with a cloudy eye is alone and got quick cure. The Gourami will be ok with out an air stone right as a Labyrinth fish right? Tomorrow ill do partial wc, how much? They have about 1G or less each for this emergency situation. Concerned, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:59:09 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up I won't stop trying, until I take my last dying breathe, to beat down that fish-killing "inches/gallon law", as you call it, that perpetually rears it's ugly head in the fish keeping hobby. There is no such thing (and definitely not a law) that works for fish that get over 3" as full grown adults. The 1 gallon per inch guideline ONLY works for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. See my blog article about "New rules/guidelines to replace the fish-killing 1" rule" I did break down fish into four size groups with more specific guidelines as far as water volume and tank size for each size group but there are still exceptions to my guidelines and mine are minimum guidelines as well. It's best to not base the life of your pets on minimum guidelines. More is better!!! I knew if I asked enough questions, I'd come closer to figuring things out. In all likelihood, your new fish and possibly the plant brought in some new pathogens that your current fish did not have an immune system resistance to. Please provide the link to the Mongabay log file. I'm glad they provide such a tool but I've never seen it before. I did a search on all of Mongabay for your name but nothing showed up. While I highly recommend the fish profiles, etc., on Mongabay, I don't spend a lot of time surfing through the rest of the site as I get a crick in my neck, from leaning my head, because the site leans so far to the left. LOL The fish info is good... their political leanings leave a lot to be desired... by me! ;-) You should definitely follow Ray's and others advice and if you have Q-tanks, separate each of the sick fish into it's own Q-tank, if possible or if you only have one, then put all the sick fish into the one tank and treat it. No use in subjecting possible healthy fish to all of the meds. Just like when you walk into a hospital, they don't put you on Chemo-therapy just because others might be on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Lenny, I added a sort of water lilly I think? Ans new neon tetras, stupid me didn't quarantine. I stopped by lfs and got Parasite Clear + Maracyn2,I already used quick cure. My last water check is posted on Mongabay 55 g Log under my name Tania Amthor, You will find the info you requested. LeT me know if you can see it. I don't believe anything chemical got in there, I did add some quick cure and try to separate everyone. I have not added the other meds yet. Don't want to OD? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:45:12 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or possibly something poured into the tank by accident? Have you added any new fish or plants recently? What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and GH and KH if you have them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 4:49:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:59:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30250	From: canampc	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

Chris, it's up to you too choose the good fish for your water, and it's the best option, but for simply answer your question: If you want lower the pH, you just mix your tap water with one obtain by RO. The Ro water is a little bit acid, so it will first lower your pH and also dilute the buffer who may keep this water to a higher pH Jerry --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30251	From: harry perry	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up/Tania again

"And one in an 8 oz glass, sorry guys, ill find a vase tomorrow". Vase????? how about a tank. These are fish not flowers. Harry --- On Sun, 9/21/08, bubuci@... <bubuci@...> wrote: From: bubuci@... <bubuci@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 10:22 PM Oops, I made a mistake, its on Badmans http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ tankstats/ its a nice little tank logger. You will see all the details(Tania Amthor), its the 55 G. I don't think I was over stocked and the new plants had been there for 2 wks, no issues. I really think it had to do with the new tetras which I added on Thurs I think. I did not use all 3 meds, just quick cure. I tried to separate all the fish, left the algae eaters in the sick tank (b/c I couldn't catch 'em, sorry guys!) with the neon tetras, and 1 shrimp + 1 frog (I couldn't find 'em). They all got 1/2 dose, recommended for neon tetra. I have my frogs and shrimps with an air stone and moss ball all together, no meds in a 1 G. The Gourami and 1 Betta who seem ok are together, they got some quick cure because that Betta was picking on another and was eating one of the dead fishies. Ewww! And one in an 8 oz glass, sorry guys, ill find a vase tomorrow. Lastly, 1 Betta with a cloudy eye is alone and got quick cure. The Gourami will be ok with out an air stone right as a Labyrinth fish right? Tomorrow ill do partial wc, how much? They have about 1G or less each for this emergency situation. Concerned, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:59:09 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up I won't stop trying, until I take my last dying breathe, to beat down that fish-killing "inches/gallon law", as you call it, that perpetually rears it's ugly head in the fish keeping hobby. There is no such thing (and definitely not a law) that works for fish that get over 3" as full grown adults. The 1 gallon per inch guideline ONLY works for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. See my blog article about "New rules/guidelines to replace the fish-killing 1" rule" I did break down fish into four size groups with more specific guidelines as far as water volume and tank size for each size group but there are still exceptions to my guidelines and mine are minimum guidelines as well. It's best to not base the life of your pets on minimum guidelines. More is better!!! I knew if I asked enough questions, I'd come closer to figuring things out. In all likelihood, your new fish and possibly the plant brought in some new pathogens that your current fish did not have an immune system resistance to. Please provide the link to the Mongabay log file. I'm glad they provide such a tool but I've never seen it before. I did a search on all of Mongabay for your name but nothing showed up. While I highly recommend the fish profiles, etc., on Mongabay, I don't spend a lot of time surfing through the rest of the site as I get a crick in my neck, from leaning my head, because the site leans so far to the left. LOL The fish info is good... their political leanings leave a lot to be desired... by me! ;-) You should definitely follow Ray's and others advice and if you have Q-tanks, separate each of the sick fish into it's own Q-tank, if possible or if you only have one, then put all the sick fish into the one tank and treat it. No use in subjecting possible healthy fish to all of the meds. Just like when you walk into a hospital, they don't put you on Chemo-therapy just because others might be on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... ry.net Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Lenny, I added a sort of water lilly I think? Ans new neon tetras, stupid me didn't quarantine. I stopped by lfs and got Parasite Clear + Maracyn2,I already used quick cure. My last water check is posted on Mongabay 55 g Log under my name Tania Amthor, You will find the info you requested. LeT me know if you can see it. I don't believe anything chemical got in there, I did add some quick cure and try to separate everyone. I have not added the other meds yet. Don't want to OD? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:45:12 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or possibly something poured into the tank by accident? Have you added any new fish or plants recently? What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and GH and KH if you have them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... ry.net <mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry .net> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30252	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone looking for Cichlids in greensburg PA area

Lara, From what I gather, Greensburg is located very near Pittsburg, PA. There should be fish clubs in and/or around that vicinity. There should also be members of online Cichlid groups who would be more than willing to take your east African Lake Cichlids. You only need to inquire of the local aquarium societies and post on the various Cichlid group sites. You'd be sure to get more than willing takers. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30253	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

If one does not own an RO filter system, you can also "brew" peat moss tea in a new 30G garbage can and then use the correct percentage of the lower pH peat moss tea water to lower the pH. Fresh carbon in the filter will remove the tannins (tea color) from the water. BUT... I still think, along with many others, that 7.8 is perfectly OK for the majority of fish out there and as a beginner, you should probably stick with the more common fish so you do not have to worry about water chemistry as much. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of canampc Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do? Chris, it's up to you too choose the good fish for your water, and it's the best option, but for simply answer your question: If you want lower the pH, you just mix your tap water with one obtain by RO. The Ro water is a little bit acid, so it will first lower your pH and also dilute the buffer who may keep this water to a higher pH Jerry --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 10:59:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30254	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Oh, a small spot? I suppose it;s a living plant, though. I don't mess with those. When I get small spots of algae I just remove it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that has been the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a plant that it may be nothing. Just don't want anything to start...  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it could simply have low water pressure. What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe flood water has gotten into the water system? You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; actual bad water would throw off some parameters. You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. And thanks for the help.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30255	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Actually, she could have zero nitrates, if she's got a bigger problem with those diatoms than a small spot on a plant. They ate all the nitrates and all the phosphates in my tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae When you say all numbers are 0.0... is that including nitrates? It's very rare for a tank to have 0.0 nitrates unless there are enough plants to handle all of the ammonia created by the fish and decaying detritus... especially since you've been without power for several days now so the plants are not using up as much of the nitrogenous compounds (ammonia is one of them). Double check your nitrate levels. Which brand test kit do you use? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that has been the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a plant that it may be nothing. Just don't want anything to start...  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it could simply have low water pressure. What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe flood water has gotten into the water system? You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; actual bad water would throw off some parameters. You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@... <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. And thanks for the help.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30256	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Margie, if you've got zero nitrates when that shouldn't be true, and any sign of diatoms, I'd sure do a major water change, because next they'll starve and die off all over everything in your tank. That's what they did to me. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:23 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I know that is what I thought, I had Pet's Mart do a follow up test today also and they got the same readings I did. API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I only have one live plant and it is the Chinese Reed plant.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/21/2008 12:58:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae When you say all numbers are 0.0... is that including nitrates? It's very rare for a tank to have 0.0 nitrates unless there are enough plants to handle all of the ammonia created by the fish and decaying detritus... especially since you've been without power for several days now so the plants are not using up as much of the nitrogenous compounds (ammonia is one of them). Double check your nitrate levels. Which brand test kit do you use? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that has been the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a plant that it may be nothing. Just don't want anything to start...  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it could simply have low water pressure. What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe flood water has gotten into the water system? You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; actual bad water would throw off some parameters. You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@... <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. And thanks for the help.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30257	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

Whatever kind of algae they are, if they've consumed all the food in her tank, they're going to be dying. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 6:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, maybe your "brown algae" isn't diatoms but rather a green algae that just looks brown due to lack of lighting. It could be what is saving you right now since the algae is God's way of growing in a tank that needs the algae help to control the nitrogenous waste in a tank. If your fish are doing OK and your test results are accurate, then I wouldn't worry about things. Wait till the power is back on and the water is safe to use and then do a couple of 25% PWC's, one a day maybe for a few days, then see where you stand and we can work on the algae issues then, God works in mysterious ways! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I know that is what I thought, I had Pet's Mart do a follow up test today also and they got the same readings I did. API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I only have one live plant and it is the Chinese Reed plant.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/21/2008 12:58:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae When you say all numbers are 0.0... is that including nitrates? It's very rare for a tank to have 0.0 nitrates unless there are enough plants to handle all of the ammonia created by the fish and decaying detritus... especially since you've been without power for several days now so the plants are not using up as much of the nitrogenous compounds (ammonia is one of them). Double check your nitrate levels. Which brand test kit do you use? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that has been the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a plant that it may be nothing. Just don't want anything to start...  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it could simply have low water pressure. What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe flood water has gotten into the water system? You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; actual bad water would throw off some parameters. You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@... <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. And thanks for the help.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 2:27:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:26:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30258	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

It matters what is really the reason for the boil water order. Call the water company, and ask them. Tnen let us know. Maybe you can do a water change. Because I've got an idea you're on the brink of a major algae or diatom die off if you don't get that water changed. That's why your nitrates are 0. if you've got power, and nothing seriously ails the water, you can always boil it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:32 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Oh OK. I didn't realize you had power back. I also remember that you can't do PWC's right now due to the boil water order. If it's growing up towards the light, then that is another sign that it's some kind of algae and probably not diatoms (commonly referred to as brown algae). It could be that you had a buildup of nitrogenous wastes during the power outage and the algae bloomed on top of those plants closest to the lighting source. It should die off since you do not seem to have a problem with excess nitrates or other nitrogenous compounds right now. From what I remember, you didn't test your water during your three days of no power so you probably had an ammonia spike during this period since your filter system wasn't working. Also, if I remember correctly, you left your filter hooked up so when the power came back on the little bit of stagnant water in the filter flowed into your tank so that might have fed some kind of an algae bloom as well. Once the water is safe again... try to find out what is unsafe about the water. I think the only reason it's unsafe is that the power supply caused the water plant to not automatically dose the water supply with chloramines so the water may still be fine for your fish... just maybe not for human consumption without boiling first to kill any possible bacteria. Remember there are tens of thousands of bacteria living in your aquarium so I doubt there is anything in the water supply worse than your tank. LOL Check with your water utility to be sure though. Once the water supply is completely safe, just get back to your maintenance routine and see if the algae goes away. If it doesn't, we can deal with it then. There's not much you can do right now since you can't do PWC's. My fish tanks went 14 days with no power and 5 weeks with no water during Katrina (2005) so you should be fine with Ike (2008). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae The power was out for three days only.... and the brown dusty stuff (algae)is on a live plant and one not a real plant, both under the one light I turn on. But at the top near the where the light is when on. I have switched to the other light for a while. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- Well, maybe your "brown algae" isn't diatoms but rather a green algae that just looks brown due to lack of lighting. It could be what is saving you right now since the algae is God's way of growing in a tank that needs the algae help to > control the nitrogenous waste in a tank. > If your fish are doing OK and your test results are accurate, then I > wouldn't worry about things. Wait till the power is back on and the > water is safe to use and then do a couple of 25% PWC's, one a day > maybe for a few days, then see where you stand and we can work on the > algae issues then, > > God works in mysterious ways! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > I know that is what I thought, I had Pet's Mart do a follow up test > today also and they got the same readings I did. > API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I only have one live plant and it is > the Chinese Reed plant. > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 9/21/2008 12:58:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > When you say all numbers are 0.0... is that including nitrates? It's > very rare for a tank to have 0.0 nitrates unless there are enough > plants to handle all of the ammonia created by the fish and decaying > detritus... > especially since you've been without power for several days now so the > plants are not using up as much of the nitrogenous compounds (ammonia is > one of them). > > Double check your nitrate levels. Which brand test kit do you use? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that > has been the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a > plant that it may be nothing. Just don't want anything to start... > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- > > From: Dora Smith > Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit > for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it > could simply have low water pressure. > > What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is > the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe > flood water has gotten into the water system? > > You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; > actual bad water would throw off some parameters. > > You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. > > Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot > and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need > be. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margie" > > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > > I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to > be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. > And thanks for the help. > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but > since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum > up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of > weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other > measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of > buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , > .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus > > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 > 11:54:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 > 12:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , > .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 > 2:27:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 > 6:26:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 8:13:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 8:32:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30259	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

What are the fish? Alot of them do well at that ph, and that's a better option than trying to lower it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:31 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30260	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

Or even tetras and danios. Atleast I have a tank full doing well at 7.6. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? Lowering pH really doesn't work very well.better to choose fish that do well with a pH of 7.8. African cichlids for example. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30261	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up

Tania, I seem to be missing something here. While I do notice some of your fish are suffering from Pop-Eye and others from Dropsy, I hadn't seen any other maladies mentioned (unless I overlooked it). I notice you are using Quick Cure, which is primarily an Ich medication (containing formalin and malachite green). Do some of your fish also have Ich? I notice too, that you've additional bought Parasite Clear and Maracyn 2, with contemplating the use of them. Do others of your fish have parasites -- if so which kind of parasites do you suspect and why? As for the Maracyn 2 (Minocycline), do you suspect external gram-negative bacterial pathogens, and if so, why. These first two maladies that I'm aware of (Pop-Eye and Dropsy) do not require any of these particular medications; they will not be effective. Then too, depending upon the cause, Dropsy is most often untreatable when it reaches the stage that its manifestation is apparent to the hobbyist's eye. Quite often, these issues are the result of poor water quality, most often as a result of increased levels of nitrogenous wastes and at other times either the result of fluctuating pH levels due to attempts at manipulating it, or the result of chemical pollution from adding too much unneeded junk to the water. To indiscriminately add chemicals and medications to your water without regard for the consequences is to invite unsound aquarium maintenance practices usually resulting in problems beyond your scope of capabilities. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30262	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium

Erik, Without actually seeing a close-up pic of these creatures, it impossible to diagnose them specifically. A more probable guess might be that they're Gammarus, but then too this is only speculation, even though a more frequently expected "strange little bug." A question remains as to what you base your assumption on, that you're not indicating here. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30263	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up

One thing that jumps out at me in your water parameters is that you are still getting a 0.25ppm ammonia reading two weeks in a row, meaning that the tanks are not cycling properly. I think you already know about this. The second thing is the water temperature of only 73F. This is too low for tropical fish and will result in a lowered immune system making them more susceptible to catching diseases. Do you have aquarium heaters in your tanks? If so, you need to start slowly raising the temperature by 1F per day until it's at least up to 78F. Yes, in all likelihood, the recent addition of the tetras brought in a new pathogen. Did you get them from a LFS or pet store? You may want to notify them and see if they know what exactly their fish brought in so you'll know what to treat them for. I did a quick Google and found "QuICK Cure" by Aquarium Products, if this is what you have, is primarily for Ick and other external parasites. Do your fish have Ick? I thought you first thought that one of them had Fish TB. How did you decide on QuICK Cure... if this is what you are using. The QuICK Cure that I found has Formalin and Malachite Green as it's active ingredients. I'll wait to see what some of the other experienced folks out here have to say but I'm not sure you are on the correct treatment path right now since I'm certainly no expert on fish diseases. I work hard on the preventative aspects so I really haven't had very much first hand exposure to diseases or parasites. Last but not least, take the gravel from which ever tank has been set up (cycling) the longest and put a handful of it in each Q-container to help cycle the ammonia/nitrite so you don't have those issues to deal with also. Normally, it's best to set up small sponge filters in each Q-tank but I understand your not going to have that available. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Oops, I made a mistake, its on Badmans http://badmanstropicalfish.com/tankstats/ <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/tankstats/> its a nice little tank logger. You will see all the details(Tania Amthor), its the 55 G. I don't think I was over stocked and the new plants had been there for 2 wks, no issues. I really think it had to do with the new tetras which I added on Thurs I think. I did not use all 3 meds, just quick cure. I tried to separate all the fish, left the algae eaters in the sick tank (b/c I couldn't catch 'em, sorry guys!) with the neon tetras, and 1 shrimp + 1 frog (I couldn't find 'em). They all got 1/2 dose, recommended for neon tetra. I have my frogs and shrimps with an air stone and moss ball all together, no meds in a 1 G. The Gourami and 1 Betta who seem ok are together, they got some quick cure because that Betta was picking on another and was eating one of the dead fishies. Ewww! And one in an 8 oz glass, sorry guys, ill find a vase tomorrow. Lastly, 1 Betta with a cloudy eye is alone and got quick cure. The Gourami will be ok with out an air stone right as a Labyrinth fish right? Tomorrow ill do partial wc, how much? They have about 1G or less each for this emergency situation. Concerned, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:59:09 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up I won't stop trying, until I take my last dying breathe, to beat down that fish-killing "inches/gallon law", as you call it, that perpetually rears it's ugly head in the fish keeping hobby. There is no such thing (and definitely not a law) that works for fish that get over 3" as full grown adults. The 1 gallon per inch guideline ONLY works for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. See my blog article about "New rules/guidelines to replace the fish-killing 1" rule" I did break down fish into four size groups with more specific guidelines as far as water volume and tank size for each size group but there are still exceptions to my guidelines and mine are minimum guidelines as well. It's best to not base the life of your pets on minimum guidelines. More is better!!! I knew if I asked enough questions, I'd come closer to figuring things out. In all likelihood, your new fish and possibly the plant brought in some new pathogens that your current fish did not have an immune system resistance to. Please provide the link to the Mongabay log file. I'm glad they provide such a tool but I've never seen it before. I did a search on all of Mongabay for your name but nothing showed up. While I highly recommend the fish profiles, etc., on Mongabay, I don't spend a lot of time surfing through the rest of the site as I get a crick in my neck, from leaning my head, because the site leans so far to the left. LOL The fish info is good... their political leanings leave a lot to be desired... by me! ;-) You should definitely follow Ray's and others advice and if you have Q-tanks, separate each of the sick fish into it's own Q-tank, if possible or if you only have one, then put all the sick fish into the one tank and treat it. No use in subjecting possible healthy fish to all of the meds. Just like when you walk into a hospital, they don't put you on Chemo-therapy just because others might be on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Lenny, I added a sort of water lilly I think? Ans new neon tetras, stupid me didn't quarantine. I stopped by lfs and got Parasite Clear + Maracyn2,I already used quick cure. My last water check is posted on Mongabay 55 g Log under my name Tania Amthor, You will find the info you requested. LeT me know if you can see it. I don't believe anything chemical got in there, I did add some quick cure and try to separate everyone. I have not added the other meds yet. Don't want to OD? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:45:12 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or possibly something poured into the tank by accident? Have you added any new fish or plants recently? What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and GH and KH if you have them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 4:49:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:59:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 9:55:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:38:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30264	From: Edgar Javison	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

I have two angelfish in a 50g tank with water that's at pH7.6. I read in the net that angelfish PREFER a pH range between 4.5 to 5.8. Didn't worry about that; just made sure the water parameters are ok. In fact, one of them has been laying eggs every three weeks or so. Nothing came out of the eggs too. You see, one of them's a P. scalare; the other's a P. altum! No matter, it shows that they like their water! At pH 7.6. So, why worry about the pH? Edgar Remember, we all stumble, every one of us. That's why it's a comfort to go hand in hand. ~Emily Kimbrough [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30265	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

Remember, we all stumble, every one of us. That's why it's a comfort to go hand in hand. ~Emily Kimbrough Or... to shove the other down first, to cushion our fall! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Javison Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PH 7.8. What is a man to do? I have two angelfish in a 50g tank with water that's at pH7.6. I read in the net that angelfish PREFER a pH range between 4.5 to 5.8. Didn't worry about that; just made sure the water parameters are ok. In fact, one of them has been laying eggs every three weeks or so. Nothing came out of the eggs too. You see, one of them's a P. scalare; the other's a P. altum! No matter, it shows that they like their water! At pH 7.6. So, why worry about the pH? Edgar Remember, we all stumble, every one of us. That's why it's a comfort to go hand in hand. ~Emily Kimbrough [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 1:25:04 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30266	From: Chris Owens	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no longer

Apparently there was a war of some type scheduled last night in my 125g tank and I didn't receive the intel. I went downstairs at 3:30 this moring to feed them before I left for work and the two smaller cichlids were tattered and dead, and the large yellow recently identified Red Devil cichlid looked at me, gave one final shiver and died. :( According to my daughter a few minutes ago, the two large plecos are swimming around trying to figure out where everyone went.... What a lousy way to start a week, Chris in VA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30267	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent! Tb? follow up

Great the one with a cloudy eye is now dead too, more info later after my classes. I'll reply to the other emails and check the water parameters again. Thanks for your guidance, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 23:38:32 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up One thing that jumps out at me in your water parameters is that you are still getting a 0.25ppm ammonia reading two weeks in a row, meaning that the tanks are not cycling properly. I think you already know about this. The second thing is the water temperature of only 73F. This is too low for tropical fish and will result in a lowered immune system making them more susceptible to catching diseases. Do you have aquarium heaters in your tanks? If so, you need to start slowly raising the temperature by 1F per day until it's at least up to 78F. Yes, in all likelihood, the recent addition of the tetras brought in a new pathogen. Did you get them from a LFS or pet store? You may want to notify them and see if they know what exactly their fish brought in so you'll know what to treat them for. I did a quick Google and found "QuICK Cure" by Aquarium Products, if this is what you have, is primarily for Ick and other external parasites. Do your fish have Ick? I thought you first thought that one of them had Fish TB. How did you decide on QuICK Cure... if this is what you are using. The QuICK Cure that I found has Formalin and Malachite Green as it's active ingredients. I'll wait to see what some of the other experienced folks out here have to say but I'm not sure you are on the correct treatment path right now since I'm certainly no expert on fish diseases. I work hard on the preventative aspects so I really haven't had very much first hand exposure to diseases or parasites. Last but not least, take the gravel from which ever tank has been set up (cycling) the longest and put a handful of it in each Q-container to help cycle the ammonia/nitrite so you don't have those issues to deal with also. Normally, it's best to set up small sponge filters in each Q-tank but I understand your not going to have that available. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Oops, I made a mistake, its on Badmans http://badmanstropicalfish.com/tankstats/ <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/tankstats/> its a nice little tank logger. You will see all the details(Tania Amthor), its the 55 G. I don't think I was over stocked and the new plants had been there for 2 wks, no issues. I really think it had to do with the new tetras which I added on Thurs I think. I did not use all 3 meds, just quick cure. I tried to separate all the fish, left the algae eaters in the sick tank (b/c I couldn't catch 'em, sorry guys!) with the neon tetras, and 1 shrimp + 1 frog (I couldn't find 'em). They all got 1/2 dose, recommended for neon tetra. I have my frogs and shrimps with an air stone and moss ball all together, no meds in a 1 G. The Gourami and 1 Betta who seem ok are together, they got some quick cure because that Betta was picking on another and was eating one of the dead fishies. Ewww! And one in an 8 oz glass, sorry guys, ill find a vase tomorrow. Lastly, 1 Betta with a cloudy eye is alone and got quick cure. The Gourami will be ok with out an air stone right as a Labyrinth fish right? Tomorrow ill do partial wc, how much? They have about 1G or less each for this emergency situation. Concerned, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:59:09 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up I won't stop trying, until I take my last dying breathe, to beat down that fish-killing "inches/gallon law", as you call it, that perpetually rears it's ugly head in the fish keeping hobby. There is no such thing (and definitely not a law) that works for fish that get over 3" as full grown adults. The 1 gallon per inch guideline ONLY works for slim-bodied fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. See my blog article about "New rules/guidelines to replace the fish-killing 1" rule" I did break down fish into four size groups with more specific guidelines as far as water volume and tank size for each size group but there are still exceptions to my guidelines and mine are minimum guidelines as well. It's best to not base the life of your pets on minimum guidelines. More is better!!! I knew if I asked enough questions, I'd come closer to figuring things out. In all likelihood, your new fish and possibly the plant brought in some new pathogens that your current fish did not have an immune system resistance to. Please provide the link to the Mongabay log file. I'm glad they provide such a tool but I've never seen it before. I did a search on all of Mongabay for your name but nothing showed up. While I highly recommend the fish profiles, etc., on Mongabay, I don't spend a lot of time surfing through the rest of the site as I get a crick in my neck, from leaning my head, because the site leans so far to the left. LOL The fish info is good... their political leanings leave a lot to be desired... by me! ;-) You should definitely follow Ray's and others advice and if you have Q-tanks, separate each of the sick fish into it's own Q-tank, if possible or if you only have one, then put all the sick fish into the one tank and treat it. No use in subjecting possible healthy fish to all of the meds. Just like when you walk into a hospital, they don't put you on Chemo-therapy just because others might be on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Lenny, I added a sort of water lilly I think? Ans new neon tetras, stupid me didn't quarantine. I stopped by lfs and got Parasite Clear + Maracyn2,I already used quick cure. My last water check is posted on Mongabay 55 g Log under my name Tania Amthor, You will find the info you requested. LeT me know if you can see it. I don't believe anything chemical got in there, I did add some quick cure and try to separate everyone. I have not added the other meds yet. Don't want to OD? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:45:12 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Could the tank have gotten a contamination of some sort? Either from your water supply or airborne like a air freshener or cleaning product or possibly something poured into the tank by accident? Have you added any new fish or plants recently? What are you test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temperature and GH and KH if you have them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent! Tb? follow up Help! Since my first betta died, I've lost another betta, 1 frog, 2 neon tetras and have one betta that looks sick, maybe popeye, the one that died this morning looked like she had droopsy? Help! What do I do? Worried, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:54:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 12:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 4:49:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:59:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 9:55:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 11:38:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30268	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Dead Angel

I lost one of my angelfish yesterday to I'm not sure what. He looked fine and was swimming happily the day before and all of a sudden his eye was cloudy and he was covered in what looked like slime and his fins started deteriorating and by that night he died. I've never seen a fish die so quickly. I also found one of my black skirt tetras in the bottom of my tank this morning. I'm bummed about the angel already and am a little worried I might lose some of the other fish in my tank. It's not a largely populated tank but by the time I found the angel was so sick and then the dead tetra it was too late to quarentine them. It's a 30 gallon tall tank and I have a black ghost knife, a ralpheal, a rubber lip pleco, 1 angel, and 3 black skirt tetra. I do weekly water changes and vaccum the gravel bi weekly, everything LOOKS fine and tests ok. Do I treat the entire tank or wait and see if another fish gets sick?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30269	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: new tetra safestart

first of all i want to say thanks for the advice about the cycling questions, my nitrate and nitrite levels have dropped, still not safe but much improved, i am about to run to pick up an amonia testing kit so i can check that stuff out now to my current post, i am assuming that the bio-spira remake is the tetra safestart? has anyone tried it yet? once i get this tank established i plan to get a second one up and running, which would be easier since i would have an established tank to borrow some gravel and the filter to get a bio filter started, but if this product works at all i was thinking about using it to help things along, if no one has tried it i'd be willing to be the guinnea pig, no hurt in throwing a few buck to experimentation if it ends up paying off

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30270	From: pam andress	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no lo

I'm so sorry to hear about your fish, but I love the way you told it. War and intel! So now what are you going to put in the tank so the plecos don't get lonely? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: chris_o_p@...: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:48:02 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no longer needed Apparently there was a war of some type scheduled last night in my 125g tank and I didn't receive the intel. I went downstairs at 3:30 this moring to feed them before I left for work and the two smaller cichlids were tattered and dead, and the large yellow recently identified Red Devil cichlid looked at me, gave one final shiver and died. :(According to my daughter a few minutes ago, the two large plecos are swimming around trying to figure out where everyone went....What a lousy way to start a week,Chris in VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30271	From: Erik	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium

Thanks Lenny, I'll take a look at those ASAP. Erik --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Below are some websites I have in my favorites folder of "critters" that > commonly show up in our aquariums. They are probably snails but could be > something else. Yours could also be daphnia but look over all of the images > below and let us know. > > Remember that when you end up with some type of "infestation", it's usually > a direct "natural" response to something else that wasn't going right in the > tank. You may not have been vacuuming your gravel thoroughly enough so > nature provided a critter to help eat up the excess detritus you were > missing. Just like algae grows when there are excess nutrients in the water > like nitrates and/or phosphates. > > > > In no particular order (supposed to be alphabetical): > http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml > > http://members.aol.com/larval1/critters.htm > > http://www.caudata.org/daphnia/ > > http://members.aol.com/mkohl2/Fwlimpets.html > > http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm > > http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm > > http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde > x.html > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Erik > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 6:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium > > During the last 2 vacuums of my aquarium's gravel I've noticed some weird > little creatures that are coming up with the water sucked out with the > python. They are round, very very small (probably 1 mm or a little less than > that), and move under their own power in the water I suck out that puddles > in the sink. A lot of them came up today, hundreds of them. They are not > free floating as far as I can tell and are only in the gravel. My fish > appear to be in perfect health, nothing visually wrong and no behavioral > problems, it's a happy tank. > My tank is a 55 gal. freshwater, I perform weekly maintenance on it, good > filtration and a lot of bubbles with top flow. > > I was thinking they might be water hog lice but I can't find a picture of > those so I'm not sure. Anyone have an idea what they might be and how bad > the risk to my fish is? > > Erik > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 > Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:41:40 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 > Tested on: 9/21/2008 7:32:06 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30272	From: CanAm	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: new tetra safestart

According to Hagen their stuff do the same too.... :) Now Tetra use the same bacteria than Biospira, but Biospira need to be refrigerated, and Tetra not, and it's what make me worry, the bacteria if alive , need food , oxygen to survive, when they are hibernating ( like in biospira ) it's different. If I found a bottle I will give a try, but honestly my expectation are not high. And I will make sure the fish in that tank have already another place ready to welcome them in case of problem. jerry ......now to my current post, i am assuming that the bio-spira remake is the tetra safestart? has anyone tried it yet? once i get this tank established i plan to get a second one up and running, which would be easier since i would have an established tank to borrow some gravel and the filter to get a bio filter started, but if this product works at all i was thinking about using it to help things along, if no one has tried it i'd be willing to be the guinnea pig, no hurt in throwing a few buck to experimentation if it ends up paying off .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30273	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: new tetra safestart

Look for "Dr. Tim's One And Only" instead of the Tetra stuff. Dr. Tim was the inventor of Bio-Spira and for some reason, Marineland shut down their lab that made Bio-Spira and Dr. Tim went out on his own, bought the lab and is now making his own brand of the 2nd generation "Bio-Spira", called "Dr. Tim's One And Only". From reading over everything at his site, http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Helpful_hints/OneandOnlyFAQs/OneandOnlyFAQs.ht ml (main site http://www.drtimsaquatics.com) the new product does not have to be kept refrigerated but then it only has a six month shelf life. I'm not sure if Hagen's Cycle or other products that existed before Bio-Spira have the same technology that the new generation replacements for Bio-Spira now have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new tetra safestart According to Hagen their stuff do the same too.... :) Now Tetra use the same bacteria than Biospira, but Biospira need to be refrigerated, and Tetra not, and it's what make me worry, the bacteria if alive , need food , oxygen to survive, when they are hibernating ( like in biospira ) it's different. If I found a bottle I will give a try, but honestly my expectation are not high. And I will make sure the fish in that tank have already another place ready to welcome them in case of problem. jerry ......now to my current post, i am assuming that the bio-spira remake is the tetra safestart? has anyone tried it yet? once i get this tank established i plan to get a second one up and running, which would be easier since i would have an established tank to borrow some gravel and the filter to get a bio filter started, but if this product works at all i was thinking about using it to help things along, if no one has tried it i'd be willing to be the guinnea pig, no hurt in throwing a few buck to experimentation if it ends up paying off . ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 12:29:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 1:11:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30274	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no lo

Honestly not sure yet, I'm thinking this may be the prime time to get the tank stocked with plants/aquascaped before introducing new residents.  But when I do I'm thinking ghost shrimp, a couple of pictus catfish, freshwater clams, a few veiled angelfish and tetras of some time to school around.    What is the true temperment of loaches?  Are they fairly peaceful? I saw a black & red clown loach and a Angelicus Botia Loach that looked really, really cool...   Chris from VA --- On Mon, 9/22/08, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no longer needed To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 12:59 PM I'm so sorry to hear about your fish, but I love the way you told it. War and intel! So now what are you going to put in the tank so the plecos don't get lonely? Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: chris_o_p@yahoo. comDate: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:48:02 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no longer needed Apparently there was a war of some type scheduled last night in my 125g tank and I didn't receive the intel. I went downstairs at 3:30 this moring to feed them before I left for work and the two smaller cichlids were tattered and dead, and the large yellow recently identified Red Devil cichlid looked at me, gave one final shiver and died. :(According to my daughter a few minutes ago, the two large plecos are swimming around trying to figure out where everyone went....What a lousy way to start a week,Chris in VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30275	From: CanAm	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: new tetra safestart

Just to make sure, when I mention than Hagen have the same claim , it's a joke, because everyone should know than Hagen is just marketing BS Jerry ......I'm not sure if Hagen's Cycle or other products that existed before Bio-Spira have the same technology that the new generation replacements for Bio-Spira now have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30276	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no lo

Have you thought about what you are going to do with one or both of the plecos? Part of the reason for your recent fish kill is because the tank wasn't big enough for all of them fish. The fish release hormones, pheromones, etc., into the water and when the hormones reach a certain level, it stresses the fish out and then things can and usually do go wrong.. either illnesses, aggression, etc. A single 14" pleco that might still grow even more, if it's not permanently stunted, is equal in bodymass and bioload to about 1,000 1" fish. Nobody would consider putting a thousand 1" fish in a 125G but somehow we consider it OK when it's only a single fish. That said, most of the pleco fanatics say a single common pleco needs at least 75G of water volume and that's a minimum amount so with two in a 125G, you are already pushing the limits of a safe bioload in the tank. If you want more fish to go with your current plecos, you should stick to smaller fish that aren't as much of a burden on the bioload of the tank. The angelfish is large bodied fish. The pictus catfish isn't good for tanks with smaller fish (and shrimp) in it as they are nocturnal carnivorous predators so it may not be a wise choice either. You might even see some battles between it and the plecos since they will be competing for bottom space. If you rehome one or both of the plecos, it will give you a lot more bioload room in the tank. It sounds like you really want a nice planted community tank which would be great but you just can't cram a bunch of monster sized fish into that scenario. Fill it up with plants and then you could have your single angelfish surrounded by a couple of nice big schools of other fish and some smaller plecos like a clown pleco or a shoal of corys or otos. The clown loaches need to be in shoals of five or more and grow to over 12" and up to 16" so they would be tank busters also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no longer needed Honestly not sure yet, I'm thinking this may be the prime time to get the tank stocked with plants/aquascaped before introducing new residents. But when I do I'm thinking ghost shrimp, a couple of pictus catfish, freshwater clams, a few veiled angelfish and tetras of some time to school around. What is the true temperment of loaches? Are they fairly peaceful? I saw a black & red clown loach and a Angelicus Botia Loach that looked really, really cool... Chris from VA --- On Mon, 9/22/08, pam andress <pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no longer needed To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 12:59 PM I'm so sorry to hear about your fish, but I love the way you told it. War and intel! So now what are you going to put in the tank so the plecos don't get lonely? Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: chris_o_p@yahoo. comDate: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:48:02 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no longer needed Apparently there was a war of some type scheduled last night in my 125g tank and I didn't receive the intel. I went downstairs at 3:30 this moring to feed them before I left for work and the two smaller cichlids were tattered and dead, and the large yellow recently identified Red Devil cichlid looked at me, gave one final shiver and died. :(According to my daughter a few minutes ago, the two large plecos are swimming around trying to figure out where everyone went....What a lousy way to start a week,Chris in VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 1:20:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 3:08:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30277	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Angel

I'm not sure why the angelfish died so quickly but I did want to address your comment about "It's not a largely populated tank". I'm sorry but a 30G tank is not big enough for your current bioload... especially NOT the black ghost knife fish. They grow to 19" and need a much, much larger tank. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apteronotus_albifrons.html The striped raphael catfish grows to 8" so it's not really suitable for a 30G unless it was by itself or maybe with a school of smaller fish. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Platydoras_costatus.html 30G is about the bare minimum tank size for a single angelfish also but if it's a tall tank, it could work for the angelfish as the main display fish and some other smaller fish. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm Overstocking tanks and having undersized tanks are the PRIMARY reasons for fish getting sick. It causes undue stress on the fish and when fish get stressed, their immune systems falter and they get sick. If not that, then an overstocked tank will result in aggression when basic survival of the fittest rules kick in. Almost every forum thread I've ever read have the same scenario. If it's not from being overstocked or undersized tanks, then it's from introducing new fish into the tank without quarantining them first so they bring a new pathogen into the tank. I know this might sound like I'm fussing at you but I'm not... there are thousands of other members of this forum and I'm just trying to stress how important it is to do research on fish BEFORE you get them so you do not come home one day to your pets suffering and/or dying. Many of these issues can be avoided with a little bit of research and some restraint when out looking at pet stores or LFS. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K'lyn Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead Angel I lost one of my angelfish yesterday to I'm not sure what. He looked fine and was swimming happily the day before and all of a sudden his eye was cloudy and he was covered in what looked like slime and his fins started deteriorating and by that night he died. I've never seen a fish die so quickly. I also found one of my black skirt tetras in the bottom of my tank this morning. I'm bummed about the angel already and am a little worried I might lose some of the other fish in my tank. It's not a largely populated tank but by the time I found the angel was so sick and then the dead tetra it was too late to quarentine them. It's a 30 gallon tall tank and I have a black ghost knife, a ralpheal, a rubber lip pleco, 1 angel, and 3 black skirt tetra. I do weekly water changes and vaccum the gravel bi weekly, everything LOOKS fine and tests ok. Do I treat the entire tank or wait and see if another fish gets sick? ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 11:38:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 3:43:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30278	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Food Suppliment: Algae Wafers/Vitamins

I purchased some small wafers i.e. algae, vit suppliment for the bottom dwellers ( corey's and pleco) They go crazy over them, it is like a tug of war. The other fish did not bother with them as they were too busy feeding on the surface. Now they have discovered them also and it is like a frenzy when they do. How often should I add these and should I add a few more for the other fish?. I am giving them two about about every 3 days and they are really tiny little wafers.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30279	From: Margie	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

I did wipe it all off and have not seen anymore.... Will have to just wait and see.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 9/21/2008 11:05:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Oh, a small spot? I suppose it;s a living plant, though. I don't mess with those. When I get small spots of algae I just remove it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that has been the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a plant that it may be nothing. Just don't want anything to start...  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it could simply have low water pressure. What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe flood water has gotten into the water system? You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; actual bad water would throw off some parameters. You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. And thanks for the help.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30280	From: Margie	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium

I had a guppy tank, only started with two and ended up with a million before I finally got some one to take them. But I had these tiny little white wormy things that were almost impossible to see and they were so think in the tank and I had cleaned this tank, washed everything, but just could not get rid of them. I never want that again, nor do I want guppies again. Beautiful or not. NO WAY!!!!!  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 09/21/08 19:53:46 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium Below are some websites I have in my favorites folder of "critters" that commonly show up in our aquariums. They are probably snails but could be something else. Yours could also be daphnia but look over all of the images below and let us know. Remember that when you end up with some type of "infestation", it's usually a direct "natural" response to something else that wasn't going right in the tank. You may not have been vacuuming your gravel thoroughly enough so nature provided a critter to help eat up the excess detritus you were missing. Just like algae grows when there are excess nutrients in the water like nitrates and/or phosphates. In no particular order (supposed to be alphabetical): http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml http://members.aol.com/larval1/critters.htm http://www.caudata.org/daphnia/ http://members.aol.com/mkohl2/Fwlimpets.html http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Erik Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Strange Little Bugs in my Aquarium During the last 2 vacuums of my aquarium's gravel I've noticed some weird little creatures that are coming up with the water sucked out with the python. They are round, very very small (probably 1 mm or a little less than that), and move under their own power in the water I suck out that puddles in the sink. A lot of them came up today, hundreds of them. They are not free floating as far as I can tell and are only in the gravel. My fish appear to be in perfect health, nothing visually wrong and no behavioral problems, it's a happy tank. My tank is a 55 gal. freshwater, I perform weekly maintenance on it, good filtration and a lot of bubbles with top flow. I was thinking they might be water hog lice but I can't find a picture of those so I'm not sure. Anyone have an idea what they might be and how bad the risk to my fish is? Erik ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 6:41:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 7:32:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30281	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Brown Algae

City says water is back to normal and that is why I did a PWC this am. I was not aware the inverter had two outlets and I could have run the filtration also. A lack of communication between hubby and me. But we were also in the middle of boarding up and securing the property and I guess that was not the most important thing at the time.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/21/2008 8:35:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae Oh OK. I didn't realize you had power back. I also remember that you can't do PWC's right now due to the boil water order. If it's growing up towards the light, then that is another sign that it's some kind of algae and probably not diatoms (commonly referred to as brown algae). It could be that you had a buildup of nitrogenous wastes during the power outage and the algae bloomed on top of those plants closest to the lighting source. It should die off since you do not seem to have a problem with excess nitrates or other nitrogenous compounds right now. From what I remember, you didn't test your water during your three days of no power so you probably had an ammonia spike during this period since your filter system wasn't working. Also, if I remember correctly, you left your filter hooked up so when the power came back on the little bit of stagnant water in the filter flowed into your tank so that might have fed some kind of an algae bloom as well. Once the water is safe again... try to find out what is unsafe about the water. I think the only reason it's unsafe is that the power supply caused the water plant to not automatically dose the water supply with chloramines so the water may still be fine for your fish... just maybe not for human consumption without boiling first to kill any possible bacteria. Remember there are tens of thousands of bacteria living in your aquarium so I doubt there is anything in the water supply worse than your tank. LOL Check with your water utility to be sure though. Once the water supply is completely safe, just get back to your maintenance routine and see if the algae goes away. If it doesn't, we can deal with it then. There's not much you can do right now since you can't do PWC's. My fish tanks went 14 days with no power and 5 weeks with no water during Katrina (2005) so you should be fine with Ike (2008). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae The power was out for three days only.... and the brown dusty stuff (algae)is on a live plant and one not a real plant, both under the one light I turn on. But at the top near the where the light is when on. I have switched to the other light for a while. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- Well, maybe your "brown algae" isn't diatoms but rather a green algae that just looks brown due to lack of lighting. It could be what is saving you right now since the algae is God's way of growing in a tank that needs the algae help to > control the nitrogenous waste in a tank. > If your fish are doing OK and your test results are accurate, then I > wouldn't worry about things. Wait till the power is back on and the > water is safe to use and then do a couple of 25% PWC's, one a day > maybe for a few days, then see where you stand and we can work on the > algae issues then, > > God works in mysterious ways! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > I know that is what I thought, I had Pet's Mart do a follow up test > today also and they got the same readings I did. > API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I only have one live plant and it is > the Chinese Reed plant. > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 9/21/2008 12:58:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > When you say all numbers are 0.0... is that including nitrates? It's > very rare for a tank to have 0.0 nitrates unless there are enough > plants to handle all of the ammonia created by the fish and decaying detritus... > especially since you've been without power for several days now so the > plants are not using up as much of the nitrogenous compounds (ammonia is one of them). > > Double check your nitrate levels. Which brand test kit do you use? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > I did a water test this am and all number are 0, ph is 7.8, but that > has been the same from the start. It is just such a small spot on a > plant that it may be nothing. Just don't want anything to start... > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- > > From: Dora Smith > Date: 09/21/08 09:35:25 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > That water has to be boiled for drinking may or may not make it unfit > for your fish. it may have a few too many coloform bacteria, or it > could simply have low water pressure. > > What does it look and smell like? Is it likely there's oil in it? Is > the actual problem that water pressure is low or that they believe > flood water has gotten into the water system? > > You can run your regular tank tests on it and report the levels to us; > actual bad water would throw off some parameters. > > You could try calling up and asking exactly what is wrong with the water. > > Do you have electricity and gas? You can actually take a big soup pot > and boil several gallons of water for a water change on the stove if need be. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margie" > > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:11 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > > I am not replacing water for a while, as of last Tuesday water had to > be boiled for drinking. I will keep an eye on it. It is very minor. > And thanks for the help. > >  > Margie > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 09/20/08 12:26:18 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brown Algae > > Well, it's more unusual for an established tank to get brown algae but > since your tank's ecology was disrupted by Ike, I would simply vacuum > up the brown algae and not worry about it for the next couple of > weekly PWC's. If it persists, then you may have to take other > measures. Check with your utility to see if they changed the formula of buffers, etc., they are adding to the water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , > .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus > > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 > 11:54:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 > 12:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , > .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080920-0, 09/20/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 > 2:27:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 > 6:26:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·. <º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 8:13:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/21/2008 8:32:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30282	From: N Taweel	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

Hi, My Angels laid eggs early this evening on the internal filter (it's about 12" tall) , in the 20 G community tank. I saw the male fertilizing the eggs for the first time "He used to be an eater in the previous two times!", so there could be fry this time. How can I save the eggs and the future fry from being eaten? I have an empty 15 g tank that can be used, but last time all the eggs got covered with white fungi although I used blue methylin in the hatchery tank, and used a very weak airstone, only one baby hatched, he died the next day without even separating off his egg, I guess he was 'eaten' by fungi. I'm keeping the lights on tonight, to allow the angels to defend their eggs. I do have a spare CLEAN internal filter, and an UGF 'under-gravel filter' in the 20 G. Thanks for any advise. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30283	From: Edgar Javison	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

My friend, who also breeds angelfish, has given me this tip on what to do with angelfish eggs: In a small bowl, aerated and half-filled with clean water and dissolved with half a capsule of tetracycline, put the slate (or leaf) where the eggs were laid. After 3 days the eggs will hatch and in a week's time, the fry will be swimming. Am trying it now for the eggs laid by my angelfish. Am not counting on the eggs hatching as I have a pair of P. altum & P. scalare, which I read do not breed. Guess I'll just have to prove to myself if that's true or not, eh? Edgar Remember, we all stumble, every one of us. That's why it's a comfort to go hand in hand. ~Emily Kimbrough _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30284	From: CanAm	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

Hello Noura, The white egg was not fertilized, since you see the male do it, I will remove the filter and put it in the spare aquarium. Many angels have lost their parental habit, and eat the egg. Live the parent in the main tank. A least it's what I will do for a first experience. After you should see the eggs hatch, around the third day when they will be free swimmer, it will be time to start an artemia ( bright shrimp) batch too feed them when they will have finish to consume the yoke. Good luck. And be prepare, hatching it's something, after you need a lot pf place to grow them, in my first batch, I save over 200 of them. Now I let the parents eat the eggs , it's too hard to find people to take the young one, even when you give them. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:05 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent:Angels laid eggs Hi, My Angels laid eggs early this evening on the internal filter (it's about 12" tall) , in the 20 G community tank. I saw the male fertilizing the eggs for the first time "He used to be an eater in the previous two times!", so there could be fry this time. How can I save the eggs and the future fry from being eaten? I have an empty 15 g tank that can be used, but last time all the eggs got covered with white fungi although I used blue methylin in the hatchery tank, and used a very weak airstone, only one baby hatched, he died the next day without even separating off his egg, I guess he was 'eaten' by fungi. I'm keeping the lights on tonight, to allow the angels to defend their eggs. I do have a spare CLEAN internal filter, and an UGF 'under-gravel filter' in the 20 G. Thanks for any advise. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30285	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Purigen

I finally got some from foster and smith I must be incredibly dumb. I can't figure out what to do with it. It comes in a little sac that says it is good for 100 gallons. I have a 10 gallon tank!! What do I do? The only directions said to rinse it and put in filter. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30286	From: Chris	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

I got some feeder guppies, a dwarf gourami, and 2 neon tetras to help the cycle while I'm waiting to figure out what I'm gonna put in the tank and I noticed a few things A few of the guppies have no white in their eyes. They are all black. Is that a common trait? I loaded up the tank with floating plants for the guppies and tetra to hide in, but the guppies and 2 tetras are favoring the bottom of the tank and not really exploring. Is that because they they just been introduced to a new tank? The dwarf gourami and it is exploring the tank, so I don't understand.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30287	From: K'lyn	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Angel

Sometimes you make me want to find another group to join. The only fish in my tank that shouldn't be in there is the ghost knife and I have a 60 gallon tank to move him into when the time comes. It jsut so happens right now it's only about 2-3 inches long. Striped Rapheals are standard for 30 gallon tanks and the minimum tank size for them is actually 20 gallons. I do research before I buy any pet, fish or otherwise. Mongabay just doesn't happen to be my one and only resource of information. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm not sure why the angelfish died so quickly but I did want to address > your comment about "It's not a largely populated tank". > > I'm sorry but a 30G tank is not big enough for your current bioload... > especially NOT the black ghost knife fish. They grow to 19" and need a > much, much larger tank. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apteronotus_albifrons.html > > The striped raphael catfish grows to 8" so it's not really suitable for a > 30G unless it was by itself or maybe with a school of smaller fish. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Platydoras_costatus.html > > 30G is about the bare minimum tank size for a single angelfish also but if > it's a tall tank, it could work for the angelfish as the main display fish > and some other smaller fish. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm > > Overstocking tanks and having undersized tanks are the PRIMARY reasons for > fish getting sick. It causes undue stress on the fish and when fish get > stressed, their immune systems falter and they get sick. If not that, then > an overstocked tank will result in aggression when basic survival of the > fittest rules kick in. Almost every forum thread I've ever read have the > same scenario. If it's not from being overstocked or undersized tanks, > then it's from introducing new fish into the tank without quarantining them > first so they bring a new pathogen into the tank. > > I know this might sound like I'm fussing at you but I'm not... there are > thousands of other members of this forum and I'm just trying to stress how > important it is to do research on fish BEFORE you get them so you do not > come home one day to your pets suffering and/or dying. > > Many of these issues can be avoided with a little bit of research and some > restraint when out looking at pet stores or LFS. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of K'lyn > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead Angel > > > I lost one of my angelfish yesterday to I'm not sure what. He looked fine > and was swimming happily the day before and all of a sudden his eye was > cloudy and he was covered in what looked like slime and his fins started > deteriorating and by that night he died. I've never seen a fish die so > quickly. I also found one of my black skirt tetras in the bottom of my tank > this morning. I'm bummed about the angel already and am a little worried I > might lose some of the other fish in my tank. It's not a largely populated > tank but by the time I found the angel was so sick and then the dead tetra > it was too late to quarentine them. It's a 30 gallon tall tank and I have a > black ghost knife, a ralpheal, a rubber lip pleco, 1 angel, and 3 black > skirt tetra. I do weekly water changes and vaccum the gravel bi weekly, > everything LOOKS fine and tests ok. Do I treat the entire tank or wait and > see if another fish gets sick? > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 > Tested on: 9/22/2008 11:38:31 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 > Tested on: 9/22/2008 3:43:19 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30288	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Angel

I do not see your rational here. You need to look at a tank with its residents as full grown, adult fish. If you are not, you are bound to make errors which will lead to stunting or other problems. You have a 30 gallon tank right now. In the 30 you have the Raphael cat, a black ghost, an angel fish (down from two), and 3 black skirt tetras (down from 4). No sizes are given until the e-mail to which I am replying. For the eventual sizes of your original population, you are looking at least at a 75 gallon tank, but they probably would be much better with a 100. Presuming a natural angel, you are looking at a length of 8-10" and a height of 12+'. Depending on the species of Raphael cat you have, it can go from 6-9". The black ghost can go to nearly 20". The black skirt, provided I am thinking of the correct fish, will go about 2.25". The tetras and the cat would be enough for your 30. The angels and the black ghost definitely need a larger tank. If you do not like our replies, find our philosophies on fish keeping repulsive or untenable, like to be puzzled with unexplained fish deaths, by all means, find another list where you can get the answers you want. Or, you can simply go it alone. However, if you wish to be successful, benefit from years of experience, and make this hobby a joy to be in, hang around and listen to what is said. Pay attention to some of the debates between the more experienced members about certain points of fishkeeping. Put these tips and practices into action in your own tank(s) and see what happens. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K'lyn Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dead Angel Sometimes you make me want to find another group to join. The only fish in my tank that shouldn't be in there is the ghost knife and I have a 60 gallon tank to move him into when the time comes. It jsut so happens right now it's only about 2-3 inches long. Striped Rapheals are standard for 30 gallon tanks and the minimum tank size for them is actually 20 gallons. I do research before I buy any pet, fish or otherwise. Mongabay just doesn't happen to be my one and only resource of information. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm not sure why the angelfish died so quickly but I did want to address > your comment about "It's not a largely populated tank". > > I'm sorry but a 30G tank is not big enough for your current bioload... > especially NOT the black ghost knife fish. They grow to 19" and need a > much, much larger tank. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apteronotus_albifrons.html > > The striped raphael catfish grows to 8" so it's not really suitable for a > 30G unless it was by itself or maybe with a school of smaller fish. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Platydoras_costatus.html > > 30G is about the bare minimum tank size for a single angelfish also but if > it's a tall tank, it could work for the angelfish as the main display fish > and some other smaller fish. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm > > Overstocking tanks and having undersized tanks are the PRIMARY reasons for > fish getting sick. It causes undue stress on the fish and when fish get > stressed, their immune systems falter and they get sick. If not that, then > an overstocked tank will result in aggression when basic survival of the > fittest rules kick in. Almost every forum thread I've ever read have the > same scenario. If it's not from being overstocked or undersized tanks, > then it's from introducing new fish into the tank without quarantining them > first so they bring a new pathogen into the tank. > > I know this might sound like I'm fussing at you but I'm not... there are > thousands of other members of this forum and I'm just trying to stress how > important it is to do research on fish BEFORE you get them so you do not > come home one day to your pets suffering and/or dying. > > Many of these issues can be avoided with a little bit of research and some > restraint when out looking at pet stores or LFS. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of K'lyn > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead Angel > > > I lost one of my angelfish yesterday to I'm not sure what. He looked fine > and was swimming happily the day before and all of a sudden his eye was > cloudy and he was covered in what looked like slime and his fins started > deteriorating and by that night he died. I've never seen a fish die so > quickly. I also found one of my black skirt tetras in the bottom of my tank > this morning. I'm bummed about the angel already and am a little worried I > might lose some of the other fish in my tank. It's not a largely populated > tank but by the time I found the angel was so sick and then the dead tetra > it was too late to quarentine them. It's a 30 gallon tall tank and I have a > black ghost knife, a ralpheal, a rubber lip pleco, 1 angel, and 3 black > skirt tetra. I do weekly water changes and vaccum the gravel bi weekly, > everything LOOKS fine and tests ok. Do I treat the entire tank or wait and > see if another fish gets sick? > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 > Tested on: 9/22/2008 11:38:31 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 > Tested on: 9/22/2008 3:43:19 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30289	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

There are black eyed guppies. As long as there is no visible fungus (fuzzy or slimy object growing on the eyes or body of the fish)they are probably normal. Some fish can even have one black eye and one silver eye. I have had dwarf gourami males as pets. The dwarf gourami males are generally very curious and investigate new tanks and new fish. Gouramis like to swim among plants and enjoy swimming near the survace as they are surface feeders (note that they have a superior mouth (upturned), which indicates surface feeding behavior). Guppies are normally surface dwellers, but when frightened, cold, tired or sick, they rest at the bottom. If the guppies and tetras spend most of the day at the bottom and are listless or inactive they are either stressed or sick. Gambusia --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I got some feeder guppies, a dwarf gourami, and 2 neon tetras to help > the cycle while I'm waiting to figure out what I'm gonna put in the > tank and I noticed a few things > > A few of the guppies have no white in their eyes. They are all black. > Is that a common trait? > > I loaded up the tank with floating plants for the guppies and tetra to > hide in, but the guppies and 2 tetras are favoring the bottom of the > tank and not really exploring. Is that because they they just been > introduced to a new tank? The dwarf gourami and it is exploring the > tank, so I don't understand. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

Come to think of it, I haven't seen any fish with white in their eyes. That may be a mammal thing... to have white in the eyeball or maybe the white of the fisheye is hidden completely. I haven't eaten any fish eye soup while on vacation so I'm not sure. Some of my fish have completely black eyes while others have the black pupil surrounded by various colors depending on the fish and species. None have white around the iris that I can see. Are the fish on the bottom even moving around or just staying in one place on the bottom? If staying in one place, they could be suffering from shock (osmotic, pH, temperature, etc.). Did you take your time acclimating them? I know the stores tell people to just float the bag for 15 minutes or something like that and that might work if the water parameters of their existing water is very similar to your home water parameters but if the parameters are far off, it's better to slowly acclimate them... even down to a drip tube acclimation. What are your water parameters? What were the stores? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just added first fish. Is this normal? I got some feeder guppies, a dwarf gourami, and 2 neon tetras to help the cycle while I'm waiting to figure out what I'm gonna put in the tank and I noticed a few things A few of the guppies have no white in their eyes. They are all black. Is that a common trait? I loaded up the tank with floating plants for the guppies and tetra to hide in, but the guppies and 2 tetras are favoring the bottom of the tank and not really exploring. Is that because they they just been introduced to a new tank? The dwarf gourami and it is exploring the tank, so I don't understand. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 10:29:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:05:04 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30291	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen

Will the filter pack fit in the reservoir of your filter system? I have a 10G cherry shrimp tank and the Purigen filter pack fits in the reservoir for that tank although it's a tighter fit compared to my larger filter systems. If the filter pack will not fit in the reservoir of your filter system, you will have to buy a filter media bag (or two would be better) with the small mesh needed for Purigen and then cut open your filter pack and split the Purigen between the two smaller bags. This way, when you are recharging one pack, you can run the second pack in your filter. The good thing is you won't have to clean the Purigen very often. I have two 100ml packs running on my 65G goldfish tank (two goldfish) and I alternate doing filter maintenance every other week on each filter system so the Purigen packs get recharged every two weeks as well. Your first time might get dirty kind of quick since you haven't used it before but after that, you may not have to recharge the Purigen but every couple of months. See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" and I have a section in there about Purigen. I only do the bleach soak and then dechlor soak and do not do the last step that SeaChem suggests but I have hard water so that last step isn't necessary. If you have softer water, it may be. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzy Snowflake Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Purigen I finally got some from foster and smith I must be incredibly dumb. I can't figure out what to do with it. It comes in a little sac that says it is good for 100 gallons. I have a 10 gallon tank!! What do I do? The only directions said to rinse it and put in filter. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 10:29:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:13:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30292	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Angel

K'lyn, I'm sorry you took my help the wrong way. When you read a fish profile that recommends a 30G tank for the fish, then that profile is not thinking you are going to add a bunch of other fish that also require a 30G tank. You have to add the tank volumes together. For example, if the profiles you choose to read say the striped raphael should be in a 30G tank, does that mean you can put 30 of them in there? NO... it means only that one fish. If you wanted two fish that each require 30G, then you need a 60G tank, etc., etc. Like anything on the internet, if you don't like what you read on one site, you can always find another site that agrees with you. I'm sure you can find a fish profile for the same fish that gives grossly different information from Mongabay... which would most likely be wrong. I've found that the Mongabay profiles are the most accurate and most extensive. When I do come across a Mongabay profile that might have bad info or a typo, I can email the owner of the site and the profile is quickly updated and they even reply to my emails thanking me for pointing out the error. There are other fish websites that are also accurate and I have many of them listed on my blog but there are also hundreds, if not thousands of websites out there that give out horribly wrong information. I have some of them exposed on my blog also. While the planned 60G tank for the black ghost knife fish would suffice for a while, even it's not large enough for long term so unless you have plans for a wall sized tank in your home, fish that get that large should not even be considered by most hobbyists. I feel bad for the hobbyist and the fish when I see stores selling HUGE fish like the Black Ghost, Pacu's, etc., to average people who may not realize their needs. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K'lyn Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dead Angel Sometimes you make me want to find another group to join. The only fish in my tank that shouldn't be in there is the ghost knife and I have a 60 gallon tank to move him into when the time comes. It jsut so happens right now it's only about 2-3 inches long. Striped Rapheals are standard for 30 gallon tanks and the minimum tank size for them is actually 20 gallons. I do research before I buy any pet, fish or otherwise. Mongabay just doesn't happen to be my one and only resource of information. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm not sure why the angelfish died so quickly but I did want to address > your comment about "It's not a largely populated tank". > > I'm sorry but a 30G tank is not big enough for your current bioload... > especially NOT the black ghost knife fish. They grow to 19" and need a > much, much larger tank. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apteronotus_albifrons.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apteronotus_albifrons.html> > > The striped raphael catfish grows to 8" so it's not really suitable for a > 30G unless it was by itself or maybe with a school of smaller fish. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Platydoras_costatus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Platydoras_costatus.html> > > 30G is about the bare minimum tank size for a single angelfish also but if > it's a tall tank, it could work for the angelfish as the main display fish > and some other smaller fish. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm> > > Overstocking tanks and having undersized tanks are the PRIMARY reasons for > fish getting sick. It causes undue stress on the fish and when fish get > stressed, their immune systems falter and they get sick. If not that, then > an overstocked tank will result in aggression when basic survival of the > fittest rules kick in. Almost every forum thread I've ever read have the > same scenario. If it's not from being overstocked or undersized tanks, > then it's from introducing new fish into the tank without quarantining them > first so they bring a new pathogen into the tank. > > I know this might sound like I'm fussing at you but I'm not... there are > thousands of other members of this forum and I'm just trying to stress how > important it is to do research on fish BEFORE you get them so you do not > come home one day to your pets suffering and/or dying. > > Many of these issues can be avoided with a little bit of research and some > restraint when out looking at pet stores or LFS. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of K'lyn > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead Angel > > > I lost one of my angelfish yesterday to I'm not sure what. He looked fine > and was swimming happily the day before and all of a sudden his eye was > cloudy and he was covered in what looked like slime and his fins started > deteriorating and by that night he died. I've never seen a fish die so > quickly. I also found one of my black skirt tetras in the bottom of my tank > this morning. I'm bummed about the angel already and am a little worried I > might lose some of the other fish in my tank. It's not a largely populated > tank but by the time I found the angel was so sick and then the dead tetra > it was too late to quarentine them. It's a 30 gallon tall tank and I have a > black ghost knife, a ralpheal, a rubber lip pleco, 1 angel, and 3 black > skirt tetra. I do weekly water changes and vaccum the gravel bi weekly, > everything LOOKS fine and tests ok. Do I treat the entire tank or wait and > see if another fish gets sick? > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 > 11:38:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 > 3:43:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 10:39:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:25:53 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30293	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Those who live in the Santa Cruz area

A quite a few little angel fish which are from two gorgeous black striped red eyed silver angel fish. If you are interested email gambusiaaffinis@... or call Angela (Boulder Creek Farm) 831-338- 3835 . --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "lizkakot" <lizkakot@...> wrote: > > I would like to know if there is a fish store that you would recommend. > > I have bought guppies from pet emporium, they contaminated my whole > tank with Ick and died. > > Pet smart isn't much better either, they constantly have dead fish in > there, and sometimes their smaller fish are in tanks with other fish > bullies. > > > Any other options? I just want to know if anyone had any success with > the places in the area. > > I'm looking to buy an angel fish and a few plants, but I don't want to > drive far because it's too stressful for me and the fish. > > Thanks. > > BTW: Any plants out there that the goldfish wont eat/dig up? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30294	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: October 4 is Fish Mega Auction!

October 4 is the Fish and Aquarium supplies Mega Auction!!! Just a friendly announcement by a member of the Silicon Valley Aquarium Society. Meeting Location: Round Table Pizza 4400 Stevens Creek Blvd. San Jose, CA Time: 7:00pm About the Club: The first meeting of the Silicon Valley Aquarium Society was in May 2002. Most meetings now have 50+ fellow fish enthusiasts attending and over 100 people attend the annual MegaAuction each October. An auction of live fish, plants and drygoods a raffle of hardware, food and accessories Most months the raffle grand prize is a tank, filter, or other valuable item. The auction and raffle are great ways to explore new species and products. There are also fun events organized by the different study groups throughout the year for people interested in those topics. Come on by and join the fun! Contact Info: Forum: http://svas.fullhartsoftware.com/forum/ Webmaster Email: svas-mail@... BOD Email: SVAS_Board@yahoogroups.com Website: http://www.svas.info Mailing List: SiliconValleyAquariumSociety

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30295	From: Chris	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

Ok. I was wondering if they were heading into a coma or something. I'm not seeing any fungus, so they should be fine. I thought that a new environment would be scarring them and that is why they are there on the bottom. They have swam around a little more and a starting to spread out more. The tetra and guppies seem to have schooled together even. I wonder if they will stay with the guppies. Since being frightened, how long will they take to get used to the new home and get over the stress? Wow! Out of 12 guppes, only one is male. A few of the bigger ones are fat. That is one very lucky guppy! I guess there will be fry soon. There are plenty of places for the fry to hide, but I cannot give the diet fry need. Will the fry survive on flakes?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30296	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 9/22/2008
Subject: Lightning Trout --------- >< ) ) ) *>

Please excuse the fish if I did the text symbols incorrectly. I walked into a deli and saw people gawking at a tray. The deli was selling Lightning Trout (which are bright yellow and taste like salmon). It was really funny because they didn't lable it as anything but fresh fish, so the people in the deli thought that the fish were radioactive mutants! Lightning trout are not that odd to me. Gambusia

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30297	From: Edgar Javison	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: I'm enamored by catfish! Now, I've got a problem...

Hello all! I'm enamored by catfish that I've bought catfishes and put them all in a 50gal tank. Now, this tank seems empty, as one can't see any fish swimming around. But I know that once they get larger, it'll be overcrowded because they're all bottom dwellers. These are my catfishes: * Three banjo catfish (Bunocephalus coracoideus) * Three featherfin synodontis catfish (Synodontis eupterus) * Two leopard pleco (Glyptoperichthys gibbiceps) - one albino; one regular variety * Three pictus catfish (Pimelodus pictus) * One striped raphael (Platydoras costatus) * Five upside-down catfish (Synodontisnigriventris)I would like to ask for some suggestions as to how to distribute these catfishes to different tanks. As of now, I have already six (!) tanks - four 50gal tanks and two 28gal tanks. The five tanks, other than the one where these catfishes are, are occupied by other fishes that I have: * One 50gal South American angelfish community; * One 50gal peaceful global community composed of small fishes; * One 50gal Asian oddball tank composed of one rainbow shark, two rainbow snakeheads, seven arulius barbs & one Asian bumblebee catfish; * One 28gal tank with a Chinese algae eater (one of the first fishes I bought when I decided to take up fishkeeping again; been thinking of giving him up for adoption but I decided to keep him instead) and two red lobsters; * One 28gal tank with an albino clawed frog (lively fellow; wish I could find him some company cause I couldn't find any of his species at the LFS anymore) I also have a 6gal quarantine tank and a fish bowl where I'm trying to hatch some angelfish eggs. Can anyone give me any advice on what to do with my catfishes, possibly without the dreaded "get another tank" or "ditch that fish" suggestion? Edgar Remember, we all stumble, every one of us. That's why it's a comfort to go hand in hand. ~Emily Kimbrough [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30298	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Dead Angel

What I find is that the sellers of fish that have wonderful descriptions of the needs of the fish often have tank sizes that are too small. I assume they can sell more fish that way. I also find this to be true with online plant vendors they reduce the requirements of the plant. If you check what real people say in reviews, you might find that the plant does better with a lower pH or more light, etc. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dead Angel I do not see your rational here. You need to look at a tank with its residents as full grown, adult fish. If you are not, you are bound to make errors which will lead to stunting or other problems. You have a 30 gallon tank right now. In the 30 you have the Raphael cat, a black ghost, an angel fish (down from two), and 3 black skirt tetras (down from 4). No sizes are given until the e-mail to which I am replying. For the eventual sizes of your original population, you are looking at least at a 75 gallon tank, but they probably would be much better with a 100. Presuming a natural angel, you are looking at a length of 8-10" and a height of 12+'. Depending on the species of Raphael cat you have, it can go from 6-9". The black ghost can go to nearly 20". The black skirt, provided I am thinking of the correct fish, will go about 2.25". The tetras and the cat would be enough for your 30. The angels and the black ghost definitely need a larger tank. If you do not like our replies, find our philosophies on fish keeping repulsive or untenable, like to be puzzled with unexplained fish deaths, by all means, find another list where you can get the answers you want. Or, you can simply go it alone. However, if you wish to be successful, benefit from years of experience, and make this hobby a joy to be in, hang around and listen to what is said. Pay attention to some of the debates between the more experienced members about certain points of fishkeeping. Put these tips and practices into action in your own tank(s) and see what happens. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K'lyn Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dead Angel Sometimes you make me want to find another group to join. The only fish in my tank that shouldn't be in there is the ghost knife and I have a 60 gallon tank to move him into when the time comes. It jsut so happens right now it's only about 2-3 inches long. Striped Rapheals are standard for 30 gallon tanks and the minimum tank size for them is actually 20 gallons. I do research before I buy any pet, fish or otherwise. Mongabay just doesn't happen to be my one and only resource of information. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm not sure why the angelfish died so quickly but I did want to address > your comment about "It's not a largely populated tank". > > I'm sorry but a 30G tank is not big enough for your current bioload... > especially NOT the black ghost knife fish. They grow to 19" and need a > much, much larger tank. > http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apteronotus_albifrons.html> mongabay.com/species/Apteronotus_albifrons.html > > The striped raphael catfish grows to 8" so it's not really suitable for a > 30G unless it was by itself or maybe with a school of smaller fish. > http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Platydoras_costatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Platydoras_costatus.html > > 30G is about the bare minimum tank size for a single angelfish also but if > it's a tall tank, it could work for the angelfish as the main display fish > and some other smaller fish. http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm> mongabay.com/angelfish.htm > > Overstocking tanks and having undersized tanks are the PRIMARY reasons for > fish getting sick. It causes undue stress on the fish and when fish get > stressed, their immune systems falter and they get sick. If not that, then > an overstocked tank will result in aggression when basic survival of the > fittest rules kick in. Almost every forum thread I've ever read have the > same scenario. If it's not from being overstocked or undersized tanks, > then it's from introducing new fish into the tank without quarantining them > first so they bring a new pathogen into the tank. > > I know this might sound like I'm fussing at you but I'm not... there are > thousands of other members of this forum and I'm just trying to stress how > important it is to do research on fish BEFORE you get them so you do not > come home one day to your pets suffering and/or dying. > > Many of these issues can be avoided with a little bit of research and some > restraint when out looking at pet stores or LFS. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of K'lyn > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead Angel > > > I lost one of my angelfish yesterday to I'm not sure what. He looked fine > and was swimming happily the day before and all of a sudden his eye was > cloudy and he was covered in what looked like slime and his fins started > deteriorating and by that night he died. I've never seen a fish die so > quickly. I also found one of my black skirt tetras in the bottom of my tank > this morning. I'm bummed about the angel already and am a little worried I > might lose some of the other fish in my tank. It's not a largely populated > tank but by the time I found the angel was so sick and then the dead tetra > it was too late to quarentine them. It's a 30 gallon tall tank and I have a > black ghost knife, a ralpheal, a rubber lip pleco, 1 angel, and 3 black > skirt tetra. I do weekly water changes and vaccum the gravel bi weekly, > everything LOOKS fine and tests ok. Do I treat the entire tank or wait and > see if another fish gets sick? > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080921-0, 09/21/2008 > Tested on: 9/22/2008 11:38:31 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 > Tested on: 9/22/2008 3:43:19 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30299	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

Any new fish just being added to an aquarium will be disoriented for a day or two, but will soon be swimming about normally if its healthy. The apparently otherwise bare bottomed tank (since you haven't mentioned any rooted plants) is not aiding the Tetras in this regard, nor are your floating plants doing anything to help them feel much more at ease, except to give them some security of overhead protection. With few exceptions (Hatchet fish, etc.), most Characins. especially Tetras, inhabit the bottom half (more often, the bottom third) of the tank where they feel most comfortable. You should not expect the Tetras to school with the Guppies after they settle in (if they survive) as right now they are only being found together because they are in the same situation (unsure of their new surroundings). I fail to see why you chose Neons as a fish to help cycle your tank, actually wondering why you chose to fish-cycle your tank at all, but these Tetras are not among the most hardiest of the group. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30300	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

Noura, If it still appears to be potentially productive (you still have viable Angelfish eggs) at this point in time, since you do have a spare clean filter, swap out these two filters placing the present filtering media into the clean filter and place the now empty filter body with eggs in the 15 gallon hatchery tank (with a nearby airstone). A much better fungus preventative would be acriflavin, or any product such as A.P.I.'s "Fungus Cure" having this as its primary ingredient. Acriflavin is an active anti-fungal medication, whereas the use of Methylene Blue (while somewhat medicinal) is mainly suggested to prevent light from reaching light-sensitive eggs. Note that even though the male may have fertilized the eggs, as you have witnessed, this will not preclude any propensity he may develop for eating the eggs. If you're serious about hatching and raising Angels in the future, you might look into buying several hatching slates from the supplies offered by established hatcheries. In this way, you can then offer the Angels a spawning site which is much more easily transferable to a hatching tank the next time they spawn. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30301	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

Edgar, Noticing you have eggs from a mixed species "pair" of P. scalare and P. altum, their possible fecundity should not be dismissed if it was observed that the male took turns with the female after she laid a row of eggs, in alternating with her in running by the eggs in attempts to fretilize them. Lots of luck with your success with this -- be sure to report back if they hatch. I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "small bowl," as recommended being used as a hatching vessel, and then, only half-full. Spawning slates can average at least 12" long, so you'd need a good sized bowl. Many breeders use gallon jars or small tanks for hatching out Angels. While Tetracycline may have some anti-fungal properties, most anti-biotics are primarily effective against bacterial infections. It would seem so much more efficient (and effective) to use an anti-fungal agent. I've already mention Acriflavin as one, in my previous post, but there are a number you could use, Acriflavin being one of the easiest to obtain. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30302	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

Hi Jerry, I just wanted to clarify a statement in the development of the Angelfish fry, for the benefit of others here who may decide to attempt breeding these fish. While I believe I know what you meant, the time elements you left leave it a little ambiguous. While the eggs will hatch in approximately 3 days (depending upon temperature), the fry will not be free-swimming at that time -- it will take approximately another 4 days for them to become free swimming. I hadn't notice any reference to white eggs, but if/when they do turn opaque they are infertile and will soon invite fungus. For best results in raising them, you're right in that they should be fed newly hatched BBS (baby brine shrimp), which should bet set up for hatching between 24 and 30 hours before the fry are free swimming, again depending upon temperature. BTW, this is the first time I've ever seen brine shrimp referred to as bright shrimp; very enlightening! Note though, that you not only have to wait until the angel fry consume all of their yolk sack (which will be about 7 days after the eggs are first laid), but you need to wait until after ALL the fry are free swimming having first ALL come up to the surface to fill their swim bladder, which may take several hours. To feed them before this time, even if most are already free swimming, is to invite belly-slider condition in some fry. If Noura (or anyone) is real serious about raising Angels, she should consider removing the pair in the future to a breeding tank of their own. At least 2 slates are needed to immediately exchange a fresh one with the one containing eggs after spawning. This slate (with the eggs) should then be turned around so that the eggs are facing the side of the hatching tank they are placed it. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30303	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no lo

I've talked to a couple of different venues about a new home for either both of the plecos or getting another tank.  I hate to break them up as they swim together most of the time, rarely will they be more than a few inches apart from each other.  There is a Japanese steakhouse restaurant that is looking at installing a large aquarium wall (12 ft long, 10ft high, and 3ft wide) that said they would love to have them.  They are hiring the same place I take the pond classes at to set up and maintain the tank so they would have someone responsible/knowledgeable to take care of them.  I just hesitate letting them go to anyone as I know the gold pleco is at least over 20 years old and I'd hate someone to kill it out of ignorance.  :(   Right now, they are the only two in a 125g, with a wet/dry, a power skimmer filter, and two Fluval 305's.  Might be a tad overkill but I'd rather ensure they are healthy, as the two of them swish around the tank I'm fairly certain they are happy.   Chris in VA --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no longer needed To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 4:08 PM Have you thought about what you are going to do with one or both of the plecos? Part of the reason for your recent fish kill is because the tank wasn't big enough for all of them fish. The fish release hormones, pheromones, etc., into the water and when the hormones reach a certain level, it stresses the fish out and then things can and usually do go wrong.. either illnesses, aggression, etc. A single 14" pleco that might still grow even more, if it's not permanently stunted, is equal in bodymass and bioload to about 1,000 1" fish. Nobody would consider putting a thousand 1" fish in a 125G but somehow we consider it OK when it's only a single fish. That said, most of the pleco fanatics say a single common pleco needs at least 75G of water volume and that's a minimum amount so with two in a 125G, you are already pushing the limits of a safe bioload in the tank. If you want more fish to go with your current plecos, you should stick to smaller fish that aren't as much of a burden on the bioload of the tank. The angelfish is large bodied fish. The pictus catfish isn't good for tanks with smaller fish (and shrimp) in it as they are nocturnal carnivorous predators so it may not be a wise choice either. You might even see some battles between it and the plecos since they will be competing for bottom space. If you rehome one or both of the plecos, it will give you a lot more bioload room in the tank. It sounds like you really want a nice planted community tank which would be great but you just can't cram a bunch of monster sized fish into that scenario. Fill it up with plants and then you could have your single angelfish surrounded by a couple of nice big schools of other fish and some smaller plecos like a clown pleco or a shoal of corys or otos. The clown loaches need to be in shoals of five or more and grow to over 12" and up to 16" so they would be tank busters also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no longer needed Honestly not sure yet, I'm thinking this may be the prime time to get the tank stocked with plants/aquascaped before introducing new residents. But when I do I'm thinking ghost shrimp, a couple of pictus catfish, freshwater clams, a few veiled angelfish and tetras of some time to school around. What is the true temperment of loaches? Are they fairly peaceful? I saw a black & red clown loach and a Angelicus Botia Loach that looked really, really cool... Chris from VA --- On Mon, 9/22/08, pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com <mailto:pamandress2 3%40hotmail. com> > wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com <mailto:pamandress2 3%40hotmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no longer needed To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 12:59 PM I'm so sorry to hear about your fish, but I love the way you told it. War and intel! So now what are you going to put in the tank so the plecos don't get lonely? Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: chris_o_p@yahoo. comDate: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:48:02 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Thank you to everyone regardinging ID'ing my cichlids alas no longer needed Apparently there was a war of some type scheduled last night in my 125g tank and I didn't receive the intel. I went downstairs at 3:30 this moring to feed them before I left for work and the two smaller cichlids were tattered and dead, and the large yellow recently identified Red Devil cichlid looked at me, gave one final shiver and died. :(According to my daughter a few minutes ago, the two large plecos are swimming around trying to figure out where everyone went....What a lousy way to start a week,Chris in VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 1:20:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/22/2008 3:08:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30304	From: Chris	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Come to think of it, I haven't seen any fish with white in their eyes. That > may be a mammal thing... to have white in the eyeball or maybe the white of > the fisheye is hidden completely. I haven't eaten any fish eye soup while > on vacation so I'm not sure. Some of my fish have completely black eyes > while others have the black pupil surrounded by various colors depending on > the fish and species. None have white around the iris that I can see. > I didn't know of any other way to write it > Are the fish on the bottom even moving around or just staying in one place > on the bottom? If staying in one place, they could be suffering from shock > (osmotic, pH, temperature, etc.). Did you take your time acclimating them? > they are somewhat active, and I left the bag in the aquarium for an hour before I released them into the tank. a few are swimming around the top now. > I know the stores tell people to just float the bag for 15 minutes or > something like that and that might work if the water parameters of their > existing water is very similar to your home water parameters but if the > parameters are far off, it's better to slowly acclimate them... even down to > a drip tube acclimation. Where do I insert the IV? just kidding. > What are your water parameters? What were the stores? I didn't take a water sample, but they have the same water source as me, so they can't be too far off... I should start testing my water daily now is that right? A side thought. I have a bubble curtain going which is hooked up to a 2 outlet pump that is rated for 20 to 60 gallons. Should I attatch a valve to the line and slow down the air flow to the bubble curtain? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just added first fish. Is this normal? > > I got some feeder guppies, a dwarf gourami, and 2 neon tetras to help the > cycle while I'm waiting to figure out what I'm gonna put in the tank and I > noticed a few things > > A few of the guppies have no white in their eyes. They are all black. > Is that a common trait? > > I loaded up the tank with floating plants for the guppies and tetra to hide > in, but the guppies and 2 tetras are favoring the bottom of the tank and not > really exploring. Is that because they they just been introduced to a new > tank? The dwarf gourami and it is exploring the tank, so I don't understand. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 > Tested on: 9/22/2008 10:29:35 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 > Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:05:04 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30305	From: Chris	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

I'll be adding gravel later, so it isn't planted or have any artificial plants yet. I originally chose to cycle with just feeder guppies. I like them, they're cute, but they aren't going to say in the tank, and wanted something that wouldn't be a big loss. My tank is 20 gallons, and right now those guppies are really tiny, so it really is a drop in the bucket. The Gourami was a impulse buy, and the neons weren't my idea. I'm also hanging house plants inside the front of the tank. Once they recover from the shock of having the the soil washed away, they'll keep the tank in check. That should take about a week at the most. As for the neons, I'm floating spider plant babies that are still attached to the stem. I can weigh some of those down for now

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30306	From: CanAm	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

Thanks for the add on Ray, 4 days is what it take for them to finish their yoke, it's why I said prepare the Shrim. the funny thing one of my child I keep have just lay their egg since 36 hours in the main tank , and have not eated them yet, may be I will have finaly baby swimming with the parent ;) Sorry english is not my first language. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent:Angels laid eggs Hi Jerry, I just wanted to clarify a statement in the development of the Angelfish fry, for the benefit of others here who may decide to attempt breeding these fish. While I believe I know what you meant, the time elements you left leave it a little ambiguous. While the eggs will hatch in approximately 3 days (depending upon temperature), the fry will not be free-swimming at that time -- it will take approximately another 4 days for them to become free swimming. I hadn't notice any reference to white eggs, but if/when they do turn opaque they are infertile and will soon invite fungus. For best results in raising them, you're right in that they should be fed newly hatched BBS (baby brine shrimp), which should bet set up for hatching between 24 and 30 hours before the fry are free swimming, again depending upon temperature. BTW, this is the first time I've ever seen brine shrimp referred to as bright shrimp; very enlightening! Note though, that you not only have to wait until the angel fry consume all of their yolk sack (which will be about 7 days after the eggs are first laid), but you need to wait until after ALL the fry are free swimming having first ALL come up to the surface to fill their swim bladder, which may take several hours. To feed them before this time, even if most are already free swimming, is to invite belly-slider condition in some fry. If Noura (or anyone) is real serious about raising Angels, she should consider removing the pair in the future to a breeding tank of their own. At least 2 slates are needed to immediately exchange a fresh one with the one containing eggs after spawning. This slate (with the eggs) should then be turned around so that the eggs are facing the side of the hatching tank they are placed it. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30307	From: Margie	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Water stains on bulb glass

What is the best way to clean the glass that coves the bulbs. They get spattered on and then they get water stained and it does not show clear. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30308	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

Come to think of it, wasn't that an ole Rebel saying -- "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes!" <g> </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30309	From: CanAm	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

I place a picture, I just take few minutes ago in Jerry folder in the photo section , We see about 200 eggs on the echino leave , watch by one of the parent, sorry, they are few green algae spots on the glass. Should be available to see when the moderator will accept them Jerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30310	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass

Those are probably hard water stains/buildup. Remove the bulbs, let cool and then use some plain white vinegar on a cloth and they should come right off. If that doesn't work, let us know more. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass What is the best way to clean the glass that coves the bulbs. They get spattered on and then they get water stained and it does not show clear. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 12:12:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30311	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

Jerry, No need for aplogies, for English not being your first language its very easily understood and quite adequate. On the shrimp, you don't want to set up hatching them too soon or they'll either die out by the time the Angel fry start swimming, or they'll be of little nutritional value if they are still alive. For best nutritional value, BBS (baby brine shrimp) should be fed to fry within 6 hours of their (the brine shrimp's) hatching. I do wish you luck with having your Angel pair raise their fry for you, but be aware that they can decide to eat them at any time up until they hatch, while they're still wrigglers on the slate or after they start free-swimming. While it is a pleasant sight to witness, even good Angel pairs can be quite unpredictable when it comes to raising or eating their progeny -- at times raising any number of spawns in sequence only to devour a subsequent spawn unexpectedly -- for no reason that is apparent to the aquarist. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30312	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

Yep... the fight song written for "The Battle Of New Orleans" (or N'Awlins as we say down here!) but it didn't talk about the whites of their eyes... just "look 'em in the eyes!" ;-) YEEE!!! HAWWWW!!! Here's a snip... Now, Old Hickory says we can take 'em by surprise If we don't shoot our wads 'til we look 'em in the eyes! So we held off our fire 'til we see them real well Then we opened up our squirrel guns and really gave 'em hell (CHORUS) We fired our guns and the British kept a-comin' There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago We fired once more and they all began a-runnin' Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico Well, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles And they ran through the bushes where the rabbits couldn't go Ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico. From... http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/C/cwmccalllyrics/cwmccallthebattleofneworlean slyrics.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just added first fish. Is this normal? Come to think of it, wasn't that an ole Rebel saying -- "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes!" <g> </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 12:26:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30313	From: jett07002	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

It sounds to me that Chris just has in mind to play chemist. I don't see how everyone's opinion -- which I agree with -- says leave a good thing alone. The bottom line is that if you, Chris, start fooling around with the pH of the water to a completely different reading you are going to have a lot of problems keeping that pH where you think it should be. It's going to change all by itself as the tank gets "older"; it's going to change every time you do PWC's; and it's maybe going to change every time you put something into or take something out of the tank. That's a lot of stress on the inhabitants of the tank not to mention the needless work you are making for yourself. If you are serious about keeping aquariums, this may sound like fun right now, but, believe me, when you are at it for awhile it's going to start being a burden. joe t -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30314	From: Richard Haley	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen

If you have a regular power filter then place it behind the intial filtration, i.e. the filter pad or you may be forced to put it in front of the filter pad. It is most efficient in the aquaclear type filters that have the media stacked. It is plenty efficient either way with a 10 gallon tank just try to optimize media flow through and it will be fine. --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Suzy Snowflake <grammypat@...> wrote: From: Suzy Snowflake <grammypat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Purigen To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 10:11 PM I finally got some from foster and smith I must be incredibly dumb. I can't figure out what to do with it. It comes in a little sac that says it is good for 100 gallons. I have a 10 gallon tank!! What do I do? The only directions said to rinse it and put in filter. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30315	From: Margie	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass

Thanks, will let you know if it works. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...>: -------------- > Those are probably hard water stains/buildup. Remove the bulbs, let cool > and then use some plain white vinegar on a cloth and they should come right > off. If that doesn't work, let us know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass > > What is the best way to clean the glass that coves the bulbs. They get > spattered on and then they get water stained and it does not show clear. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 > Tested on: 9/23/2008 12:12:59 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30316	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

The complete lack of gravel is part of the answer as to why they are acting as they are, and will be seen acting increasingly so the higher on the evolutionary scale the fish may be (more highly developed fish have an increased sense of awareness for their surroundings). Having an uncovered bottom to your tank, the fish feel they should be able to swim much deeper as they see nothing preventing their diving to a greater depth, but they find they are prevented from doing so by this "invisible barrier," your glass tank bottom. This is the reason why many breeders using bare tanks for ease of maintenance paint the outside bottom of their tanks, so a barrier can be seen. Still, many higher evolved fish such as Cichlids, and especially Angelfish, can feel very ill at ease and insecure from this until they slowly get mostly used to it (theyre never completely used to it, as the black paint on the outside bottom presents a glare, with having a thickness of glass on top of it). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30317	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass

Margie, Lenny's recommendation seems to be best and would be the way to go, in my estimation. I was about to state the same before seeing any replies, but thought I'd wait to see if anyone might post differently. That "differently" might include the use of Windex -- which if ever posted as a recommendation for use near an aquarium SHOULD NEVER EVER BE CONSIDERED. Windex is HIGHLY TOXIC to fish in even the smallest of amounts. Just thought I'd throw this in there in case others might try using this since they may never have seen a warning. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30318	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

Yeah, I figured that 'ould get you a might stirred up. Brings back memories of that old Johnny Horton song. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30319	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass

Maybe I should have elaborated as to why using vinegar is usually a good idea. I know many household window cleaners have vinegar and/or ammonia in them. The reason for this is that vinegar has a pH around 2.5 and ammonia has a pH around 11 so they both "clean" things a little differently. Vinegar is very acidic so it actually breaks down the salt/mineral hard water buildup that happens when the water splashes up onto the bulb and evaporates, leaving behind the salt/mineral buildup. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks, will let you know if it works. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Those are probably hard water stains/buildup. Remove the bulbs, let > cool and then use some plain white vinegar on a cloth and they should > come right off. If that doesn't work, let us know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass > > What is the best way to clean the glass that coves the bulbs. They get > spattered on and then they get water stained and it does not show clear. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 > 12:12:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 12:44:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:18:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30320	From: Margie	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass

When I set up the tank after it had set for over 10 months, I only used water and that's why I asked. I nknew I would get a good answer. You know what I like about these sites, you answer right away and when you give an answer ....... it is explained why to or why not. Thanks everyone.... -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from sevenspringss@...: -------------- > Margie, Lenny's recommendation seems to be best and would be the way to go, > in my estimation. I was about to state the same before seeing any replies, but > thought I'd wait to see if anyone might post differently. That "differently" > might include the use of Windex -- which if ever posted as a recommendation > for use near an aquarium SHOULD NEVER EVER BE CONSIDERED. Windex is HIGHLY > TOXIC to fish in even the smallest of amounts. Just thought I'd throw this in > there in case others might try using this since they may never have seen a > warning. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30321	From: CanAm	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass

If it's done every week, a sponge with hot water is enough in my case, all true my water is very soft ( 40 ppm hardness) jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Maybe I should have elaborated as to why using vinegar is usually a good idea. I know many household window cleaners have vinegar and/or ammonia in them. The reason for this is that vinegar has a pH around 2.5 and ammonia has a pH around 11 so they both "clean" things a little differently. Vinegar is very acidic so it actually breaks down the salt/mineral hard water buildup that happens when the water splashes up onto the bulb and evaporates, leaving behind the salt/mineral buildup. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks, will let you know if it works. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Those are probably hard water stains/buildup. Remove the bulbs, let > cool and then use some plain white vinegar on a cloth and they should > come right off. If that doesn't work, let us know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass > > What is the best way to clean the glass that coves the bulbs. They get > spattered on and then they get water stained and it does not show clear. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 > 12:12:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 12:44:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:18:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30322	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass

Thanks Ray for pointing out that Windex and other household cleaners should NOT be used any where near out tanks. I should have included that disclaimer when I mentioned "window cleaners" in my explanation about why vinegar and ammonia are common ingredients in window cleaners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass If it's done every week, a sponge with hot water is enough in my case, all true my water is very soft ( 40 ppm hardness) jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Maybe I should have elaborated as to why using vinegar is usually a good idea. I know many household window cleaners have vinegar and/or ammonia in them. The reason for this is that vinegar has a pH around 2.5 and ammonia has a pH around 11 so they both "clean" things a little differently. Vinegar is very acidic so it actually breaks down the salt/mineral hard water buildup that happens when the water splashes up onto the bulb and evaporates, leaving behind the salt/mineral buildup. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks, will let you know if it works. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Those are probably hard water stains/buildup. Remove the bulbs, let > cool and then use some plain white vinegar on a cloth and they should > come right off. If that doesn't work, let us know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass > > What is the best way to clean the glass that coves the bulbs. They get > spattered on and then they get water stained and it does not show clear. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 > 12:12:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 12:44:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:18:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:55:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 2:00:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30323	From: CanAm	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

Thanks Ray, for my new eggs, I do not care too much if they eat them or not, it will actually give me more trouble than other thing, I let the nature do the thing.. is it not what is fantastic in this hobby, give the best to our fish, and sit and relax and let them do after.. For the shrimp , it's true I give a very short answer, not complete, probably because it's too long I do it. J Yes the brine ( not very bright ) shrimp, have to be eat very quickly after they hatch , I assume the one who post , is not probably equip to do so. what I was thinking is when you see them swim, it's time to go to the store , get the equipment, test the bulb for the good temperature / distance, it should bring it to the right spot in time , but what I forgot to mention, I have 6 bottle for hatch eggs, so I start every 12 hours, 24 hours after they swim , to give me fresh all the time. Usually I have shrimps in 18 hours , I do not use the bulb method, my bottle are in a incubator home made, where a thermostat control the temperature. Mainly I do use BBS to feed fish, not to rise fry An important point, buy the one keep in the freezer at the pet shop, they have a high rate, ( more than 90 % ) the one in small tube give only 30 to 40 % rate if not less. ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent:Angels laid eggs Jerry, No need for aplogies, for English not being your first language its very easily understood and quite adequate. On the shrimp, you don't want to set up hatching them too soon or they'll either die out by the time the Angel fry start swimming, or they'll be of little nutritional value if they are still alive. For best nutritional value, BBS (baby brine shrimp) should be fed to fry within 6 hours of their (the brine shrimp's) hatching. I do wish you luck with having your Angel pair raise their fry for you, but be aware that they can decide to eat them at any time up until they hatch, while they're still wrigglers on the slate or after they start free-swimming. While it is a pleasant sight to witness, even good Angel pairs can be quite unpredictable when it comes to raising or eating their progeny -- at times raising any number of spawns in sequence only to devour a subsequent spawn unexpectedly -- for no reason that is apparent to the aquarist. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30324	From: CanAm	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do?

Ok let's play chemistry a little bit, but let's keep it simple.. since I do not believe in adding chemical too, I suggest to Google a little bit pH, Water Hardness, Buffer, yes buffer, because that's the main problem, an alkaline side water like you have contain a lot of mineral who keep the water at 7,8 , make a hardness test to confirm it, so it's not the pH you have to low down, it's the hardness, and the good news, it's easy to do , just mix the water with water with no mineral, like Ro or distillated water. No chemical involve here, and when you will do so, check your pH it will drop, and best part of it, it will stay down. Putting acid salt or liquid will not lower the hardness and it's buffer action, ( actually a little bit by reaction, but I want keep it simple) so the pH will play like in a roller coaster, down and up , ( down when you add chemical) An other point, where you get the reading in the water from the faucet, or in the tank. The water directly take from the faucet can show a different reading than the one let sit for 24 hours, by example, if take from a well, it can be with a lot of CO2, who when release from the water will rise the ph, many city add additive who temporary rise the pH. So put water in a glass and wait 24 hours to get the reading. In the tank, I see more than often substrate modifying the pH, make it more alkaline, so make an acid test on the substrate to see if it's contain to much lime in it, put few stone in a glass an put vinegar, personally I use plain pure , or dilute HCl acid, but it's dangerous to manipulate. . Make sure it's not something in your tank who make the pH rise before atemp to play with the water Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "jett07002" <jett07002@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:00 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PH 7.8. What is a man to do? It sounds to me that Chris just has in mind to play chemist. I don't see how everyone's opinion -- which I agree with -- says leave a good thing alone. The bottom line is that if you, Chris, start fooling around with the pH of the water to a completely different reading you are going to have a lot of problems keeping that pH where you think it should be. It's going to change all by itself as the tank gets "older"; it's going to change every time you do PWC's; and it's maybe going to change every time you put something into or take something out of the tank. That's a lot of stress on the inhabitants of the tank not to mention the needless work you are making for yourself. If you are serious about keeping aquariums, this may sound like fun right now, but, believe me, when you are at it for awhile it's going to start being a burden. joe t -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I got of those API master kits and the ph read 7.8. I'm gonna lower > it, but would like to avoid chems, so what are my options? I don't > have fish in the tank yet, so I will lower it before then. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30325	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

Jerry, Yes, its entirely possible that Noura is not equipped to hatch brine shrimp, but I was only pointing out what should be done if one is serious about raising Angels. Actually, a beginner breeder needs at least 2 BBS hatching jars to alternate them every day, hatching a new batch of shrimp every day for the next day's use. I have 4 such vessels going continously at different time intervals. Noura, for next best results you can use San Francisco Bay brand frozen BBS. Its not quite as good, but the fry will take it as long as it is kept circulating with the aid of an airstone and will grow on it, albeit not as fast. You just need to be careful to use it sparingly and to not overfeed with it. Better to do several more smaller feedings during the day than two larger ones in the morning and in the evening. You'll soon learn when the Angel fry get their fill; their stomachs will be bulging with the orange color of the shrimp. If you don't see their stomachs bulging, you are not feeding them enough. Actually, regardless of what you are feeding (and you want to feed the most nutritious foods you can whenever possible), Best result for fastest growth of any fry is had when feeding 5 times per day, along with proper PWC's. It has been proven that fry growth is increased with each additional daily feeding up until 5 feedings per day, after which there is little further benefit. Jerry, I'm going to clarify what you mean about "rates" when you were discussing brine shrimp -- for the benefit of others here who may be interested. This is the hatching rate (in quantity) of the baby brine shrimp in comparison to the amount of brine shrimp eggs one uses to start out with in the hatching container. Some stores keep the 1 # cans of BBS eggs at least refrigerated (if not frozen) with extends their longevity. Even if these cans are not stored as such, typically these larger amounts are bought mostly by breeders and are sold fairly rapidly when compared to the smaller containers. The 1 lb. cans are often rated at either a 90% hatching rate (which is usually higher in reality) or an 80% hatching rate (still fairly good), priced accordingly. Even the 3.5 ounce cans are better to buy than the small vials which, as a result of their small demand, often hang on the shelf for extended periods of time. The longer this product lies around at room temperature, the poorer the percentage of hatch there will be when hatching them out. Room temperatures during the Summer may exceed 80 o at times, fluctuating every weekend if the store is closed on Sundays. It does not pay to buy these small BBS egg containers, as their hatch rate can go as low as only 15%. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30326	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs (Baby Brine Shrimp)

FYI - I raise angel fish and feed them baby brine shrimp. I get my brine shrimp eggs from Mikeswetpets. I buy 1 pond of 90% hatch rate eggs for $15. Best price I have found and have had much better success than with San Francisco Bay brand. Email Mike@... and tell him Grey in NC sent you... Grey ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: sevenspringss@... Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:26:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent:Angels laid eggs Jerry, Yes, its entirely possible that Noura is not equipped to hatch brine shrimp, but I was only pointing out what should be done if one is serious about raising Angels. Actually, a beginner breeder needs at least 2 BBS hatching jars to alternate them every day, hatching a new batch of shrimp every day for the next day's use. I have 4 such vessels going continously at different time intervals. Noura, for next best results you can use San Francisco Bay brand frozen BBS. Its not quite as good, but the fry will take it as long as it is kept circulating with the aid of an airstone and will grow on it, albeit not as fast. You just need to be careful to use it sparingly and to not overfeed with it. Better to do several more smaller feedings during the day than two larger ones in the morning and in the evening. You'll soon learn when the Angel fry get their fill; their stomachs will be bulging with the orange color of the shrimp. If you don't see their stomachs bulging, you are not feeding them enough. Actually, regardless of what you are feeding (and you want to feed the most nutritious foods you can whenever possible), Best result for fastest growth of any fry is had when feeding 5 times per day, along with proper PWC's. It has been proven that fry growth is increased with each additional daily feeding up until 5 feedings per day, after which there is little further benefit. Jerry, I'm going to clarify what you mean about "rates" when you were discussing brine shrimp -- for the benefit of others here who may be interested. This is the hatching rate (in quantity) of the baby brine shrimp in comparison to the amount of brine shrimp eggs one uses to start out with in the hatching container. Some stores keep the 1 # cans of BBS eggs at least refrigerated (if not frozen) with extends their longevity. Even if these cans are not stored as such, typically these larger amounts are bought mostly by breeders and are sold fairly rapidly when compared to the smaller containers. The 1 lb. cans are often rated at either a 90% hatching rate (which is usually higher in reality) or an 80% hatching rate (still fairly good), priced accordingly. Even the 3.5 ounce cans are better to buy than the small vials which, as a result of their small demand, often hang on the shelf for extended periods of time. The longer this product lies around at room temperature, the poorer the percentage of hatch there will be when hatching them out. Room temperatures during the Summer may exceed 80 o at times, fluctuating every weekend if the store is closed on Sundays. It does not pay to buy these small BBS egg containers, as their hatch rate can go as low as only 15%. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30327	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass

I waited until I read the last post as well. Now I believe it says in all the light fixture safety warnings that the bulbs should always have a glass cover of some kind between them and the water. This way you will have to clean the glass cover, but never the bulbs! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks Ray for pointing out that Windex and other household cleaners should NOT be used any where near out tanks. I should have included that disclaimer when I mentioned "window cleaners" in my explanation about why vinegar and ammonia are common ingredients in window cleaners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass If it's done every week, a sponge with hot water is enough in my case, all true my water is very soft ( 40 ppm hardness) jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Maybe I should have elaborated as to why using vinegar is usually a good idea. I know many household window cleaners have vinegar and/or ammonia in them. The reason for this is that vinegar has a pH around 2.5 and ammonia has a pH around 11 so they both "clean" things a little differently. Vinegar is very acidic so it actually breaks down the salt/mineral hard water buildup that happens when the water splashes up onto the bulb and evaporates, leaving behind the salt/mineral buildup. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks, will let you know if it works. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > > http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Those are probably hard water stains/buildup. Remove the bulbs, let > cool and then use some plain white vinegar on a cloth and they should > come right off. If that doesn't work, let us know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass > > What is the best way to clean the glass that coves the bulbs. They get > spattered on and then they get water stained and it does not show clear. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > > > http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 > 12:12:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 12:44:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:18:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:55:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 2:00:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30328	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs (Baby Brine Shrimp)

Grey, That's a GREAT price for 90% BBS eggs. Is Mikes a store or a wholesaler (or online supplier), and do you know if he ships? Does he have a website? Most anyone I know uses either of three suppliers for buying BBS eggs; Brine Shrimp Direct, Jehmco and Ken's Fish. The best I've found 90% eggs for lately was $16 a can -- it just went up to $21 and there are rumors it may go up more. I think at least one of the clubs I belong to might be interested in buying from Mike. I mentioned San Francisco Bay brand only in context with frozen BBS. While Hikari has the best frozen fish foods by far, I don't believe they offer BBS. As far as I know only San Francisco Bay handles it, so I thought I'd mention it to those needing to know what to look for. You wouldn't not normally need S.F. Bay brand BBS eggs for raising Angelfish on -- with exception of albinos, after first feeding them APR (Artificial Plankton & Rotifer). I keep a can in the freezer only for this purpose, but its too expensive otherwise. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30329	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass

It is the glass coverings that needs cleaning, not the bulbs...  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Donna Ransome Date: 9/23/2008 6:23:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass I waited until I read the last post as well. Now…I believe it says in all the light fixture safety warnings that the bulbs should always have a glass cover of some kind between them and the water. This way you will have to clean the glass cover, but never the bulbs! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks Ray for pointing out that Windex and other household cleaners should NOT be used any where near out tanks. I should have included that disclaimer when I mentioned "window cleaners" in my explanation about why vinegar and ammonia are common ingredients in window cleaners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass If it's done every week, a sponge with hot water is enough in my case, all true my water is very soft ( 40 ppm hardness) jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Maybe I should have elaborated as to why using vinegar is usually a good idea. I know many household window cleaners have vinegar and/or ammonia in them. The reason for this is that vinegar has a pH around 2.5 and ammonia has a pH around 11 so they both "clean" things a little differently. Vinegar is very acidic so it actually breaks down the salt/mineral hard water buildup that happens when the water splashes up onto the bulb and evaporates, leaving behind the salt/mineral buildup. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks, will let you know if it works. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > > http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Those are probably hard water stains/buildup. Remove the bulbs, let > cool and then use some plain white vinegar on a cloth and they should > come right off. If that doesn't work, let us know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass > > What is the best way to clean the glass that coves the bulbs. They get > spattered on and then they get water stained and it does not show clear. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > > > http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 > 12:12:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 12:44:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:18:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:55:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 2:00:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30330	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass

On my cheapest.. ooops.. least expensive 10G tank, the cover has two incandescent tubular bulbs and there are plastic shield that partially protect the bulbs from direct splashing but they still get some splash depending on the filter water flow, etc. On my more expensive 10G covers with fluorescent bulbs, there is a full glass sealed with silicone protecting the bulb and fixture from any water splash. I think the incandescent bulbs are left partially open to keep them from overheating the fixture area as it gets pretty hot even with only two 7.5W bulbs. If you were to modify the hood to fully protect the bulb area from the air space above the water, then you should drill holes in the plastic housing around the bulbs to allow for ventilation. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 6:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass I waited until I read the last post as well. Now I believe it says in all the light fixture safety warnings that the bulbs should always have a glass cover of some kind between them and the water. This way you will have to clean the glass cover, but never the bulbs! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks Ray for pointing out that Windex and other household cleaners should NOT be used any where near out tanks. I should have included that disclaimer when I mentioned "window cleaners" in my explanation about why vinegar and ammonia are common ingredients in window cleaners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass If it's done every week, a sponge with hot water is enough in my case, all true my water is very soft ( 40 ppm hardness) jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Maybe I should have elaborated as to why using vinegar is usually a good idea. I know many household window cleaners have vinegar and/or ammonia in them. The reason for this is that vinegar has a pH around 2.5 and ammonia has a pH around 11 so they both "clean" things a little differently. Vinegar is very acidic so it actually breaks down the salt/mineral hard water buildup that happens when the water splashes up onto the bulb and evaporates, leaving behind the salt/mineral buildup. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks, will let you know if it works. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > .com/o1518107464/shelf> <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > .com/o1518107464/shelf> > > http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > ll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > ll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Those are probably hard water stains/buildup. Remove the bulbs, let > cool and then use some plain white vinegar on a cloth and they should > come right off. If that doesn't work, let us know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass > > What is the best way to clean the glass that coves the bulbs. They get > spattered on and then they get water stained and it does not show clear. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > .com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > .com/o1518107464/shelf> > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > .com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > .com/o1518107464/shelf> > > > http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > ll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > ll.blogspot.com/> > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > ll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > ll.blogspot.com/> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 > 12:12:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 12:44:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:18:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:55:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 2:00:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 6:30:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 7:12:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30331	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs (Baby Brine Shrimp)

Here is the link to his website... he ships to me all the time. I see that he has listed them as 85% hatch rate now. Regardless, it is still a VERY good price. http://mikeswetpets.com Grey ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: sevenspringss@... Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:34:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent:Angels laid eggs (Baby Brine Shrimp) Grey, That's a GREAT price for 90% BBS eggs. Is Mikes a store or a wholesaler (or online supplier), and do you know if he ships? Does he have a website? Most anyone I know uses either of three suppliers for buying BBS eggs; Brine Shrimp Direct, Jehmco and Ken's Fish. The best I've found 90% eggs for lately was $16 a can -- it just went up to $21 and there are rumors it may go up more. I think at least one of the clubs I belong to might be interested in buying from Mike. I mentioned San Francisco Bay brand only in context with frozen BBS. While Hikari has the best frozen fish foods by far, I don't believe they offer BBS. As far as I know only San Francisco Bay handles it, so I thought I'd mention it to those needing to know what to look for. You wouldn't not normally need S.F. Bay brand BBS eggs for raising Angelfish on -- with exception of albinos, after first feeding them APR (Artificial Plankton & Rotifer). I keep a can in the freezer only for this purpose, but its too expensive otherwise. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30332	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass

The glass covers are not part of the light fixture, so you just take them to your sink and scrub…clear water, vinegar, razor blade…whatever it takes. Rinse well and replace on your tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Phelps Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass It is the glass coverings that needs cleaning, not the bulbs...  Margie http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Donna Ransome Date: 9/23/2008 6:23:58 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass I waited until I read the last post as well. Now…I believe it says in all the light fixture safety warnings that the bulbs should always have a glass cover of some kind between them and the water. This way you will have to clean the glass cover, but never the bulbs! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks Ray for pointing out that Windex and other household cleaners should NOT be used any where near out tanks. I should have included that disclaimer when I mentioned "window cleaners" in my explanation about why vinegar and ammonia are common ingredients in window cleaners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass If it's done every week, a sponge with hot water is enough in my case, all true my water is very soft ( 40 ppm hardness) jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Maybe I should have elaborated as to why using vinegar is usually a good idea. I know many household window cleaners have vinegar and/or ammonia in them. The reason for this is that vinegar has a pH around 2.5 and ammonia has a pH around 11 so they both "clean" things a little differently. Vinegar is very acidic so it actually breaks down the salt/mineral hard water buildup that happens when the water splashes up onto the bulb and evaporates, leaving behind the salt/mineral buildup. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks, will let you know if it works. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > > http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Those are probably hard water stains/buildup. Remove the bulbs, let > cool and then use some plain white vinegar on a cloth and they should > come right off. If that doesn't work, let us know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass > > What is the best way to clean the glass that coves the bulbs. They get > spattered on and then they get water stained and it does not show clear. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > > > http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 > 12:12:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 12:44:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:18:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:55:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 2:00:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30333	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Water stains on bulb glass

I have one fixture with glass cover attached, but it still says to have a glass TANK cover between the light and the water. I have another fixture with bulbs exposed, but it’s also meant to sit on a glass TANK cover. This way you only have to clean the tank covers. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass The glass covers are not part of the light fixture, so you just take them to your sink and scrub…clear water, vinegar, razor blade…whatever it takes. Rinse well and replace on your tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Phelps Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:39 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass It is the glass coverings that needs cleaning, not the bulbs...  Margie http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Donna Ransome Date: 9/23/2008 6:23:58 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass I waited until I read the last post as well. Now…I believe it says in all the light fixture safety warnings that the bulbs should always have a glass cover of some kind between them and the water. This way you will have to clean the glass cover, but never the bulbs! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks Ray for pointing out that Windex and other household cleaners should NOT be used any where near out tanks. I should have included that disclaimer when I mentioned "window cleaners" in my explanation about why vinegar and ammonia are common ingredients in window cleaners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass If it's done every week, a sponge with hot water is enough in my case, all true my water is very soft ( 40 ppm hardness) jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Maybe I should have elaborated as to why using vinegar is usually a good idea. I know many household window cleaners have vinegar and/or ammonia in them. The reason for this is that vinegar has a pH around 2.5 and ammonia has a pH around 11 so they both "clean" things a little differently. Vinegar is very acidic so it actually breaks down the salt/mineral hard water buildup that happens when the water splashes up onto the bulb and evaporates, leaving behind the salt/mineral buildup. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass Thanks, will let you know if it works. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > > http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > Those are probably hard water stains/buildup. Remove the bulbs, let > cool and then use some plain white vinegar on a cloth and they should > come right off. If that doesn't work, let us know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water stains on bulb glass > > What is the best way to clean the glass that coves the bulbs. They get > spattered on and then they get water stained and it does not show clear. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > > > http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 > 12:12:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080922-0, 09/22/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 12:44:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:18:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 1:55:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/23/2008 2:00:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30334	From: Jim	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: There are bargains out there...

Just thought I would tell you about the steal I made today. I check the local shopper and Craigs Lists for my city and several others near here and today.... I got not one, but two 180 gallon tanks, one has a stand and lights with it and my total price?... $215. I am gonna have to start wearing a mask :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30335	From: Jim	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?

I got a piece of equipment with one of the 180 gallon tanks I bought today and I am in a quandary about what it is and its purpose. Someone please look at the picture whose link I have shown and tell me waht it is and what purpose it performs. http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-008S.jpg Thanks Grey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30336	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?

That is an external protein skimmer for a salt water or marine tank. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone tell me what this equipment is? I got a piece of equipment with one of the 180 gallon tanks I bought today and I am in a quandary about what it is and its purpose. Someone please look at the picture whose link I have shown and tell me waht it is and what purpose it performs. HYPERLINK "http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-008S.jpg"http://i59 .photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-008S.jpg Thanks Grey Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30337	From: Leonard Vasbinder	Date: 9/23/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?

Looks like a DIY one too. I don't have SW tanks but I've seen lots of ads for protein skimmers and none have looked quite like that one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@...> wrote: > > That is an external protein skimmer for a salt water or marine tank. > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jim > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone tell me what this equipment is? > > > > I got a piece of equipment with one of the 180 gallon tanks I bought > today and I am in a quandary about what it is and its purpose. Someone > please look at the picture whose link I have shown and tell me waht it > is and what purpose it performs. > > HYPERLINK > "http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC- 008S.jpg"http://i59 > .photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-008S.jpg > > Thanks > Grey >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30338	From: Richard Haley	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?

A really large protein skimmer --- On Tue, 9/23/08, Jim <huron62@...> wrote: From: Jim <huron62@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone tell me what this equipment is? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 10:54 PM I got a piece of equipment with one of the 180 gallon tanks I bought today and I am in a quandary about what it is and its purpose. Someone please look at the picture whose link I have shown and tell me waht it is and what purpose it performs. http://i59.photobuc ket.com/albums/ g319/SmokyMtnGre y/MVC-008S. jpg Thanks Grey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30339	From: Saps Gal	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Newbie to the group saying hello and adding some info on my tanks!

Hi all I have just joined the group today, so I am just adding a little bit about myself. I got into fish keeping about 4 months ago when I bought a bigger tank for my single goldfish...this escalated from one thing to another and I now have a 6g tank housing 10 tropical neons and a couple of guppies, a 20g tropical tank with mollies, swordtails, barbs and corys. a 25g coldwater tank with 5 biggish goldfish/shubunkins. and finally I have recently set up a 40g marine which currently is housing a few hardy damsels, chromis and CUC. I added a couple of common clowns and a coral beauty at the weekend and they seem to be doing fine. The marine has been cycling for a couple of weeks. Ammonia is 0 Nitrite is 0 Nitrate is between 5-10ppm There is approx 14kg LR and 12kg dead rock in the tank, the filter system is Marysis 240 with an extra powerhead in the tank. Oops forgot to mention, I think I have had what is called the Diatom Bloom when the LR all turned brown but the CUC seem to be taking care of that. my CUC consists of 10 tiny hermet crabs, 2 large blue leg hermits, 2 cleaning shrimp, and 2 crabs, 1 is an anenome crab not sure about the other one. I also purchased a feather duster worm at the weekend which never opened, after reading about them on the web yesterday, I picked the tube up to gently see if the worm was still in there, as I did there was a gush of reddy brown fluid came out of it, some dispersed into the tank and the rest went behind a rock which I can't see......does this mean its dead? I would like to add some corals evenually but don't know where to start with them and maybe a yellow tang and blue tang but not sure if they can be in the same tank together. I know you will probably be thinking "slow down" but once I get something into my head, I go full throttle. Anyway, thanks for reading and letting me join the group Molly ;o) «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Molly M~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30340	From: N Taweel	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

Thanks for all your replies guys, My internet connection was down during the past 36 hours, so I'm reading everything now that ALL the eggs disapeared! I woke up this morning (40 hours after the eggs were laid) to find them gone, I left the room light on to allow the parents to defend the eggs, perhaps they themselves decided to eat them. Yesterday evening, half of them turned white. Ray mentioned how the male should be fertilizing the eggs, raw by raw right after the female, that's not what happened here, he didn't begin fertilizing until about one third of the eggs were laid. "He was eating ONE egg at the end of the fertilized raw! but stopped after eating 3 or 4 eggs, I guess the female noticed him and stood for her babies!!". Anyway, for the next times, I'll prepare the 15 G tank ahead of time when I notice the female's belly growing. and move the pair to it., then remove them after laying eggs. I have a huge problem considering feeding. We don't have BBS in Syria. Are there any alternatives for BBS for feeding after the infusoria? And, what's the best method of preparing infusoria? what should I use as an organic material? what's the quality of water? how much time should it be left in the sun? etc.. Any useful information is welcomed. I know I may not be able to raise Angelfish to be adults, but I'm very interested in watching few of them hatching and living a few days or weeks. Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30341	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs (Baby Brine Shrimp)

Hello Grey, Got your link for Mikes website -- thank you very much. I do notice that Mike's brine shrimp eggs are offered as a brine shrimp egg mix (only), for $15, which includes the hatching salt in the one pound container. By this, the most amount of shrimp eggs you would be receiving would be no more than 4 ounces, with the rest of the contents being hatching salt. The normal amount of salt used for hatching Utah (Great Salt Lake) brine shrimp eggs is about 6 Tablespoons per gallon -- give or take. Whether one uses a gallon jar, a 5 gallon carboy or a 2 liter soda bottle for hatching, about the most amount of eggs normally hatched at any one time for practicality purposes is about 2 tablespoons of brine shrimp eggs per gallon and that's a lot (often its about half that). So, going by these figures, there is a 1 to 3 ratio of brine shrimp eggs to salt in an average shrimp hatching bottle set-up (2 Tbs of eggs to 6 Tbs of salt in the hatching container). You could cut both of those amounts in half (1 Tbs eggs to 3 Tbs salt) if you use a 2 liter (approx 1/2 gallon) bottle for hatching, but it comes out to the same. So you can expect no more than a maximum amount of shrimp eggs of 4 ounces in this 16 ounce container. Buying a 3 lb. box of salt for around $2 is a lot more economical, with the purchase of a 1 pound can of pure brine shrimp eggs. You might want to consider that. I do see some other foods that Mike offers, including Krill powder and powdered egg yolk, both good fry foods. I do occasionally feed my juveniles the "crumbs" as left-overs from the cans of Krill I feed and they do well on it. I presume the egg yolk powder can probably be used for feeding Discus fry away from the parents when placing small globules of the paste you can make from it at the water line, although I prefer to leave the fry with the parents for the minimum of 4 days before removing them for BBS feeding. Thanks much again, really appreciate your extra efforts. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30342	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?

Grey, Looks to me to be a Fluidized-Bed Filter, for use with a Marine aquarium set up. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30343	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

Noura, I was about to ask you the question of whether you noticed the male participating in the breeding sequence, even including cleaning off the spawning site in preparation of breeding. This would at least indicate that its a possible pair, but your post of him fertilizing the eggs, even though only starting 1/3 of the way through their being deposited, indicates that at least there's a "pair" bond there. If the 15 gallon tank is all you have available, then I would encourage you to move the "pair" to this tank, with the provision that you make additional PWC's over and above those you normally do in your regular maintenance. A pair of Angels should have a tank of double this capacity though. If all works out with them successfully breeding, I'd recommend your getting a 29 gallon tank for them sometime in the near future. For now, the change of environment to the 15 gallon tank will delay their next spawning, which could otherwise be as soon as another 8 days after this spawning. You will need the extra time to get an infusoria culture started. I would not normally recommend feeding Angelfish infusoria as their first food, as its much smaller than they really need, but they will take it and grow on it when nothing else is available. The best source of infusoria is green water, which is not hard to make. Many hobbyists actually find this all to easy to do when having too much nutrient in the water and having too much lighting. By far, the best source of infusoria food in this green water is snail droppings. If you have snails, put some in the green water jar and feed them well on most any organic matter (Romaine lettuce, etc.), but not too much. An excess of dead or dying organic plant matter will soon start to decay and can quickly turn the water into a smelly bacterial mess. An alternative would be to use the yolk of a hard boiled egg and squeeze it through a men's muslin handkerchief, making a suspension of it in fresh water (not aquarium water) as needed, keeping it refrigerated until use. This food needs to be used judiciously as too much will foul the aquarium water. Always a good idea to have a number of snails to clean up the excess, and then to draw off the water from the bottom of the tank between feedings to ensure a clean tank bottom (being careful not to take any fry with this). Getting back to you "pair," fairly often it will take a pair a number of trials in breeding before they get it right. The number of breeding attempts will vary from pair to pair with a few pair getting it right from the start and others taking up to 20 or so tries; with most in the middle there somewhere. Then too, and I feel I must point this out, your "pair" may be two females which will be noticed when there is an especially large number of eggs deposited. You may not recognize what this "large number of eggs" looks like, if this is what is being produced, with your not being familiar with what a normal spawn would appear as. If the eggs continue to completely fungus, I'd have to say you may well have two females, which will occasionally display this behavior together unless the male is quite old and well past his prime. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30344	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?

Ray it's a protein skimmer, a bad design one , look at the collection cup on the top for remove the foam. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone tell me what this equipment is? Grey, Looks to me to be a Fluidized-Bed Filter, for use with a Marine aquarium set up. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30345	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: whites of their eyes

Sevenspringss, That was John Paul Jones who said that during the Revolutionary war. If in your words "an Ole Rebel" said it, he was only quoting one of our founding fathers.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30346	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?

Jerry, Okay, so it is. I just took a fast look at it, not really looking at it all that closely, and it looked like many Fluidized Bed filters I've seen. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30347	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kit in the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats: 35 gallon fresh water cycling for 2 weeks fish have been in for 2 additional weeks 2 fancy tail golfish 2 mollies 1 irredecent shark Treating for ick with Quick Cure PH= 9.0! GH=14! NO2= 1.6 KH= 13.5 NH3/NH4= 1.5 I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottled water left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is it better to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the water change? What can I do now to help? Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30348	From: N Taweel	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent:Angels laid eggs [Noura, I was about to ask you the question of whether you noticed the male participating in the breeding sequence, even including cleaning off the spawning site in preparation of breeding.] Ray, the supposed male didn't clean off the spawning site, but he was well defending the eggs, he forced all the other fish to stay in the other half of the community tank. As well as fertilizing the eggs. He's a young Dad, and this is his first time. [ The best source of infusoria is green water, which is not hard to make. Many hobbyists actually find this all to easy to do when having too much nutrient in the water and having too much lighting. By far, the best source of infusoria food in this green water is snail droppings. If you have snails, put some in the green water jar and feed them well on most any organic matter (Romaine lettuce, etc.), but not too much. ] I don't know if my water is considered "green", but there's a growth of hair algae on rocks and drift wood, so I think I do have a lot of nutrients in the water (Nitrate 25). is that what you mean by green water? And how would you know if you have the infusoria formed in the jar? Do you need to keep in a well lighted place? [Then too, and I feel I must point this out, your "pair" may be two females which will be noticed when there is an especially large number of eggs deposited. ... I'd have to say you may well have two females, which will occasionally display this behavior together unless the male is quite old and well past his prime. Ray ] I watched carefully while "he" was fertilizing, there were not any eggs coming out. He didn't even touch the eggs with his small "tube". I still think he's probably a male. Time will show. I couldn't use the method of "Belly edge-anal fin degree" to recognize if he's a male, though the two fish are a bit different in that. Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30349	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen

I don't know exactly what Purigen is. But if it's supposed to remove a chemical substance from teh water and particularly if it's at all expensive, I would not make it the first layer of filtering that the water goes through. (which on most filters would be if you put it behind the filter cartridge) I'd put it so that the water goes through something else first. The reason is that whatever the water goes through first accumultaes the balance of the gunk that accumulates in your filter and causes it to need replacing. I have two size A Penguin (marineland) filters in my 20 gallon. When I had a 10 gallon I had one of them. In each filter I have a polyfilter pad, a Penguin filter cartridge, and a bag of small nanoballs. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Haley" <lowjack989@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Purigen If you have a regular power filter then place it behind the intial filtration, i.e. the filter pad or you may be forced to put it in front of the filter pad. It is most efficient in the aquaclear type filters that have the media stacked. It is plenty efficient either way with a 10 gallon tank just try to optimize media flow through and it will be fine. --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Suzy Snowflake <grammypat@...> wrote: From: Suzy Snowflake <grammypat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Purigen To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 10:11 PM I finally got some from foster and smith I must be incredibly dumb. I can't figure out what to do with it. It comes in a little sac that says it is good for 100 gallons. I have a 10 gallon tank!! What do I do? The only directions said to rinse it and put in filter. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30350	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?

My personal best guess? It's an external filter. You could look through one of the online sites or an aquarium supply place catalog to try to identify it mroe specifically. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" <huron62@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Can anyone tell me what this equipment is? I got a piece of equipment with one of the 180 gallon tanks I bought today and I am in a quandary about what it is and its purpose. Someone please look at the picture whose link I have shown and tell me waht it is and what purpose it performs. http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-008S.jpg Thanks Grey ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30351	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Doesn't entirely answer your question, but the high ph is consistent with the very hard water. I don't know what it's best to do for ick once you have it, but these things are often at heart water control issues. What was your nitrate level? It would help tell us if you've got an uncycled tank or the water has gone bad for another reason. Does the water appear cloudy? Does alot of stuff appear in the water if you stir up the gravel? And just checking - ahve you got any fish in the tank who have lately gone invisible? Could be dead behind something. I'd check whether the sorts of fish you've got can do well in such hard, alkaline water. But I looked again. I've actually got an idea that your problem is two goldfish in a new tank that isn't the size of a pond. ;) From what people've been saying about goldfish on these lists. They generate alot of waste. I'm also wondering if the goldfish and the other fish can tolerate teh same temperatures. Goldfish are cold water fish. They do best at temperatures too cold for most tropical fish. You have to start a new tank, even a big one, out slowly with a couple of small hardy fish like danios. And people here will jump all over you about a new concept called fishless cycling. Some people here are big on it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "cheeseymicron03" <cheese911@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kit in the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats: 35 gallon fresh water cycling for 2 weeks fish have been in for 2 additional weeks 2 fancy tail golfish 2 mollies 1 irredecent shark Treating for ick with Quick Cure PH= 9.0! GH=14! NO2= 1.6 KH= 13.5 NH3/NH4= 1.5 I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottled water left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is it better to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the water change? What can I do now to help? Thanks ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30352	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

The tank is sitting on a wooden surface and there is a green towel under it. I'm adding gravel soon because I didn't realize how quickly the fish would dirty the bottom of the tank. That isn't asthetic to me --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > The complete lack of gravel is part of the answer as to why they are acting > as they are, and will be seen acting increasingly so the higher on the > evolutionary scale the fish may be (more highly developed fish have an increased sense > of awareness for their surroundings). Having an uncovered bottom to your > tank, the fish feel they should be able to swim much deeper as they see nothing > preventing their diving to a greater depth, but they find they are prevented > from doing so by this "invisible barrier," your glass tank bottom. This is the > reason why many breeders using bare tanks for ease of maintenance paint the > outside bottom of their tanks, so a barrier can be seen. Still, many higher > evolved fish such as Cichlids, and especially Angelfish, can feel very ill at > ease and insecure from this until they slowly get mostly used to it (theyre never > completely used to it, as the black paint on the outside bottom presents a > glare, with having a thickness of glass on top of it). Ray </HTML> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30353	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: My Male Guppie

He is a tiny little guppy and only about an in right now. He has an orange spot on his belly, a green marking at the base of the tail and another orange spot on his tail fin. As far as I can tell right now, all of the other guppies are female. He is one lucky guppy don't you think? I decided to give him a name. As far as I see it, he is king of his school, master of his harem, and that is deserving of a name. There for I decree that from this day forward he shall be named King Mongkut of Siam!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30354	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: One pudgie Gourami

Does anyone here know how long it takes for a Dwarf Gourami to get full of eggs? It seemed to have gotten fat really fast. I'm not sure if it was snacking on a ghost shrimp, or a guppy (I'm having trouble counting them cuz their spreading out now and plenty of places to hide), or if it got full of eggs really fast. There are 3 Gourami in the tank and the other 2 aren't fat. I didn't notice the plumpness till last night either. I'm waiting for my pictures that I uploaded to be approved, but one of them is of that one Gourami.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30355	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie to the group saying hello and adding some info on my tank

Molly, I'm not thinking "slow down", I'm thinking, "NOOO! STOOPPPP!" LOL You seem to have a propensity for overstocking right now, probably from getting bad advice from one of the many sources of bad advice out there. I realize you are still a newbie but you are setting yourself for disaster and heartache if you do not change your tank stocking thoughts. I'm not a SW tank owner but from all I've read, you are adding way too much bioload way too fast. I'm sure someone else will elaborate. As far as your FW tanks go, the 6G is overstocked. You should probably not have more than 4-5 neon's (a small school) and guppies get too big and breed too much for a 6G tank. Your goldfish tank is DEFINITELY severely overstocked. A 25G isn't even large enough for a single goldfish, much less five of them. Technically, 25G of water volume may be enough water volume for a single round-bodied goldfish but the minimum tank size should be at least 4' long so the fish have swimming room as they grow. My minimum tank recommendation for two fancy goldfish would be a 55G 4' long tank. Long-bodied goldfish should probably be in a pond or a really BIG tank... 6'+ long and at least 50-75G per goldfish. They also need a lot of filtration volume to handle the ammonia and waste that all big fish put out. See my blog for my goldfish care sheet which gives a full explanation. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie to the group saying hello and adding some info on my tanks! Hi all I have just joined the group today, so I am just adding a little bit about myself. I got into fish keeping about 4 months ago when I bought a bigger tank for my single goldfish...this escalated from one thing to another and I now have a 6g tank housing 10 tropical neons and a couple of guppies, a 20g tropical tank with mollies, swordtails, barbs and corys. a 25g coldwater tank with 5 biggish goldfish/shubunkins. and finally I have recently set up a 40g marine which currently is housing a few hardy damsels, chromis and CUC. I added a couple of common clowns and a coral beauty at the weekend and they seem to be doing fine. The marine has been cycling for a couple of weeks. Ammonia is 0 Nitrite is 0 Nitrate is between 5-10ppm There is approx 14kg LR and 12kg dead rock in the tank, the filter system is Marysis 240 with an extra powerhead in the tank. Oops forgot to mention, I think I have had what is called the Diatom Bloom when the LR all turned brown but the CUC seem to be taking care of that. my CUC consists of 10 tiny hermet crabs, 2 large blue leg hermits, 2 cleaning shrimp, and 2 crabs, 1 is an anenome crab not sure about the other one. I also purchased a feather duster worm at the weekend which never opened, after reading about them on the web yesterday, I picked the tube up to gently see if the worm was still in there, as I did there was a gush of reddy brown fluid came out of it, some dispersed into the tank and the rest went behind a rock which I can't see......does this mean its dead? I would like to add some corals evenually but don't know where to start with them and maybe a yellow tang and blue tang but not sure if they can be in the same tank together. I know you will probably be thinking "slow down" but once I get something into my head, I go full throttle. Anyway, thanks for reading and letting me join the group Molly ;o) «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Molly M~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:58:04 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30356	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal?

I know lots of tank photos show around 3" of gravel which might be good for planted tanks but if you are not going to have live plants, then only go with around 1/2" to 1" of gravel... enough to "hide" the fish poop between gravel vacuuming. This is what I have in my 65G goldfish tank and I have my live plants in 2" or 3" clay pots so they can have a deeper substrate. This thinner gravel bed is very easy to vacuum clean when doing my weekly 25% PWC's. Rinse your gravel very well in a colander, until the water is running clear and then lower the colander into the tank and pour the gravel onto the bottom. This can be done with the fish in the tank but just do it slowly to lessen the stress on the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Just added first fish. Is this normal? The tank is sitting on a wooden surface and there is a green towel under it. I'm adding gravel soon because I didn't realize how quickly the fish would dirty the bottom of the tank. That isn't asthetic to me --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: > > The complete lack of gravel is part of the answer as to why they are acting > as they are, and will be seen acting increasingly so the higher on the > evolutionary scale the fish may be (more highly developed fish have an increased sense > of awareness for their surroundings). Having an uncovered bottom to your > tank, the fish feel they should be able to swim much deeper as they see nothing > preventing their diving to a greater depth, but they find they are prevented > from doing so by this "invisible barrier," your glass tank bottom. This is the > reason why many breeders using bare tanks for ease of maintenance paint the > outside bottom of their tanks, so a barrier can be seen. Still, many higher > evolved fish such as Cichlids, and especially Angelfish, can feel very ill at > ease and insecure from this until they slowly get mostly used to it (theyre never > completely used to it, as the black paint on the outside bottom presents a > glare, with having a thickness of glass on top of it). Ray </HTML> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:46:34 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 10:09:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30357	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Urgent:Angels laid eggs

Noura, From your descriptions of this fish's actions, I'd have to say its probably a male -- but an inexperienced one. Give them time, they'll get it right sooner or later. You would know if you had "green water." <g> The water itself is pea soup green from suspended algae in the water column. Those species of Algaes growing on rocks is not considered as being part of green water since they are not suspended. Easiest way to start it is by placing old aquarium water in sunlight, especially that water rich in nutrients, which you seem to have. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

If it got a really round bulbous belly quickly, it could be constipated but more than likely it has an internal bacterial infection. Gouramis, (and Bettas) while having large bodies, actually have all of their internal organs crammed into a very small area so an internal digestive system infection causes the bloating to appear more pronounced. You should move the fish to a separate Q-tank for care and observation. Check it's poop. If it is long, white and stringy looking, this will confirm the internal illness. If the poop is normal, then it could be egg compaction. If no poop, then constipation. Try feeding it some green pea "meat" to see if that will alleviate the possibility of it being constipation. Take a single green pea, pinch it to remove the skin and then use a fork to smoosh the two halves into smaller pieces. I keep a package of frozen green peas in my freezer just for this purpose and it's also a good food for feeding fish once a week or so to help keep them "regular". If the poop confirms that it's internal bacterial infection and the fish is eating, then feeding it an anti-bacterial food would work. While Jungle's brand isn't the best one out there, it seems to be readily available. If the fish isn't eating, then you'll have to treat the water column. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] One pudgie Gourami Does anyone here know how long it takes for a Dwarf Gourami to get full of eggs? It seemed to have gotten fat really fast. I'm not sure if it was snacking on a ghost shrimp, or a guppy (I'm having trouble counting them cuz their spreading out now and plenty of places to hide), or if it got full of eggs really fast. There are 3 Gourami in the tank and the other 2 aren't fat. I didn't notice the plumpness till last night either. I'm waiting for my pictures that I uploaded to be approved, but one of them is of that one Gourami. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:46:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 10:19:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30359	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?

Honestly Ray, I look a long time to find the air inlet tube , and other thing, because it's hard on that picture to know if it's a skimmer or a fluidized bed, especially than it's home made. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can anyone tell me what this equipment is? Jerry, Okay, so it is. I just took a fast look at it, not really looking at it all that closely, and it looked like many Fluidized Bed filters I've seen. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30360	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

gochhhhhhhh, I'm sorry but I don't have good news.. You fish are sick and get ich because they are in a poisonous environment, the ammonia level and nitrite are far too high, this tank is not cycle. You will lost the molly and the shark, no need too treat the ich, may be with a lot of massive water change the gold fish can survive. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "cheeseymicron03" <cheese911@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kit in the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats: 35 gallon fresh water cycling for 2 weeks fish have been in for 2 additional weeks 2 fancy tail golfish 2 mollies 1 irredecent shark Treating for ick with Quick Cure PH= 9.0! GH=14! NO2= 1.6 KH= 13.5 NH3/NH4= 1.5 I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottled water left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is it better to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the water change? What can I do now to help? Thanks ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30361	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: tiggernut24@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:33:28 -0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Doesn't entirely answer your question, but the high ph is consistent with the very hard water. We have been told we have extremely hard water. There are actually people who go through 3 dishwashers a year because of it!I don't know what it's best to do for ick once you have it, but these things are often at heart water control issues.What was your nitrate level? It would help tell us if you've got an uncycled tank or the water has gone bad for another reason.Unfortuntally my test kit doest test for that. I am making a trip to a pet store today though, I'll pick up a test.Does the water appear cloudy? Currently it is cloudy because of the stuff that didnt get vacummed up this morning. Once it settles it is clearDoes alot of stuff appear in the water if you stir up the gravel? yes. I am try to vacuum once a week. I am very careful about not overfeeding though so I dont know why its so dirtyAnd just checking - ahve you got any fish in the tank who have lately gone invisible? Could be dead behind something. My pleco died a couple of days ago. He was only in our tank 2 days so I am assuiming it was the water levels or the stress of a tank moveI'd check whether the sorts of fish you've got can do well in such hard, alkaline water. Looks like they all prefer slightly alkaline to very alkaline water, thats a plus!But I looked again. I've actually got an idea that your problem is two goldfish in a new tank that isn't the size of a pond. ;) From what people've been saying about goldfish on these lists. They generate alot of waste.I'm also wondering if the goldfish and the other fish can tolerate teh same temperatures. Goldfish are cold water fish. They do best at temperatures too cold for most tropical fish. The goldfish were originally in a 2.5 gallon tank (stupid I know) so this has to be better. They are my sons (3 years old) though so I cannot get rid of them. In the smaller tank I had a very hard time keeping the water below even 80 degrees and this one stays at about 80 or belowYou have to start a new tank, even a big one, out slowly with a couple of small hardy fish like danios. And people here will jump all over you about a new concept called fishless cycling. Some people here are big on it. I didnt really even want this big of a tank! lol I felt awful about the goldfish and thought I would get them a more suitable tank. The mollys, I was told, were good for cycling a tank and the shark was a rescue. Her bro was eatten by some cinchilds so i figured my tank had to be a little better. SarahYours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@...----- Original Message ----- From: "cheeseymicron03" <cheese911@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:30 AMSubject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my mastertest kit in the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2 additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating for ick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymorebottled water left. I will get some tonight and do more in themorning. Also is it better to treat the ick or filter the junkfloating around from the water change?What can I do now to help?Thanks------------------------------------Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º>PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-<º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30362	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

I tested my ammonia and I cannot tell if it is yellow or greenish. It looks both to me. Either my ammonia is 0, .25, or .5. .25 and .5 look just the same to me. I cannot tell them apart. It looks like really diluted urine with a maybe a hint of green. Are my eyes bad? It looks like all 3 to me depending on the light. I don't know if I have any form of color blindness, but I can see the numbers on the color blindness tests clearly. Which ever is which, I have 3 Dwarf Gouramis, 4 ghost shirmp, atleast 10 guppies, and a butt load of plants with gevitation that needs to be trimmed of dead material. I haven't done a PWC yet and there is plenty of debri on the bottom that I probably should vacuum out. Assuming it is somewhere between .25 and .5, is this normal for the cycling process? Should I do a pwc to be safe? Is my memory also serving me right that the nitrifying bacteria hasn't had a chance to create nitrates or nitrites? Also I'm noticing a bit of algae growth, but I'm not sure if it is being fed from the nitrates from pet store water. The plants, or the nitrates from my tap. Amonia n/a Nitrates .5 Ph 7.8

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30363	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > Does anyone here know how long it takes for a Dwarf Gourami to get > full of eggs? It seemed to have gotten fat really fast. I'm not sure > if it was snacking on a ghost shrimp, or a guppy (I'm having trouble > counting them cuz their spreading out now and plenty of places to > hide), or if it got full of eggs really fast. There are 3 Gourami in > the tank and the other 2 aren't fat. I didn't notice the plumpness > till last night either. > > I'm waiting for my pictures that I uploaded to be approved, but one of > them is of that one Gourami. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30364	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

Retest your water and give us the numbers for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte and pH. You'll see why I'm asking for this in the coming paragraphs. Here's a couple of free online color-blindness tests. I'm not sure if you've taken these or another one but figured I'd post these again for any new members of the group. I can't pass them completely and they say 25% of males suffer some degree of color-blindness. If the API test kit, viewing them under fluorescent lighting in my kitchen makes them easier to distinguish for me. http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html http://colorvisiontesting.com/ Retest your water daily and keep a log and give us the numbers on your log and we could tell you more about what is happening. I notice that something isn't right with your numbers in the last paragraph below. You have nitrAtes at 0.5ppm but that is likely not correct since most nitrAte test kits start off at 0 and go up by increments of 5ppm. You also list ammonia as "n/a" but in your first paragraph below, you have an ammonia reading so I'm not sure what the bottom section means. You also do not have a nitrIte test result posted. Also do the baseline test on your tap water (see my blog) as you could have a nitrate level right out the tap. The EPA allows 10ppm but some areas have even higher nitrate levels. Your slight ammonia level could also be coming out the tap from the chloramine (chlorine and ammonia). Since your pH is on the high end, you should use Prime tap water conditioner since it will convert the ammonia to a non-toxic form still able to be used by the nitrifying bacteria but less toxic to the fish. The higher the pH level and temperature, the more toxic ammonia becomes. These pages gives a complete breakdown on how the various levels of ammonia are affected by pH and temp. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? I tested my ammonia and I cannot tell if it is yellow or greenish. It looks both to me. Either my ammonia is 0, .25, or .5. .25 and .5 look just the same to me. I cannot tell them apart. It looks like really diluted urine with a maybe a hint of green. Are my eyes bad? It looks like all 3 to me depending on the light. I don't know if I have any form of color blindness, but I can see the numbers on the color blindness tests clearly. Which ever is which, I have 3 Dwarf Gouramis, 4 ghost shirmp, atleast 10 guppies, and a butt load of plants with gevitation that needs to be trimmed of dead material. I haven't done a PWC yet and there is plenty of debri on the bottom that I probably should vacuum out. Assuming it is somewhere between .25 and .5, is this normal for the cycling process? Should I do a pwc to be safe? Is my memory also serving me right that the nitrifying bacteria hasn't had a chance to create nitrates or nitrites? Also I'm noticing a bit of algae growth, but I'm not sure if it is being fed from the nitrates from pet store water. The plants, or the nitrates from my tap. Amonia n/a Nitrates .5 Ph 7.8 ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 10:47:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 11:08:56 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30365	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

I took a look at your pics and the gourami looks more like it has an internal bacterial infection to me, judging from the bulbous belly... at least that's what the ones I adopted back in 2005 looked like exactly. They also had the stringy white poop to further confirm the diagnosis. Have you been able to isolate the affected fish to check it's poop out better? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > Does anyone here know how long it takes for a Dwarf Gourami to get > full of eggs? It seemed to have gotten fat really fast. I'm not sure > if it was snacking on a ghost shrimp, or a guppy (I'm having trouble > counting them cuz their spreading out now and plenty of places to > hide), or if it got full of eggs really fast. There are 3 Gourami in > the tank and the other 2 aren't fat. I didn't notice the plumpness > till last night either. > > I'm waiting for my pictures that I uploaded to be approved, but one of > them is of that one Gourami. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 10:47:20 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 11:18:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30366	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

here we back 10, 20 years ago.......or is it 30 , yes , a long time ago they was using molly to cycle a salt tank, and it's look than some people working in fish store continue to believe it, the best way to cycle a tank, is without fish. I'm sure someone here, can give you reference to a website describing how to do it .. Jerry ........The mollys, I was told, were good for cycling a tank ....... ....... .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30367	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

Chris, I will bet it's 0, the API give always a small greenish tint. It's easy to check, if your city do not use chloramines, use the faucet water and make a test at same time and compare the color. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? I tested my ammonia and I cannot tell if it is yellow or greenish. It looks both to me. Either my ammonia is 0, .25, or .5. .25 and .5 look just the same to me. I cannot tell them apart. It looks like really diluted urine with a maybe a hint of green. Are my eyes bad? It looks like all 3 to me depending on the light. I don't know if I have any form of color blindness, but I can see the numbers on the color blindness tests clearly. Which ever is which, I have 3 Dwarf Gouramis, 4 ghost shirmp, atleast 10 guppies, and a butt load of plants with gevitation that needs to be trimmed of dead material. I haven't done a PWC yet and there is plenty of debri on the bottom that I probably should vacuum out. Assuming it is somewhere between .25 and .5, is this normal for the cycling process? Should I do a pwc to be safe? Is my memory also serving me right that the nitrifying bacteria hasn't had a chance to create nitrates or nitrites? Also I'm noticing a bit of algae growth, but I'm not sure if it is being fed from the nitrates from pet store water. The plants, or the nitrates from my tap. Amonia n/a Nitrates .5 Ph 7.8 ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30368	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

I haven't seen any white poop on the bottom of the tank. I need a heater and a bio bag for the aquarium that I have sitting around for the quarantine tank. I found a ghost shrimp shell sitting on the bottom of the tank. The guy at the pet store said they might become food to the gourami and there was a Mexican stand off between a gourami and a shrimp. A guppy was attacked and died as well. Could it just be a full belly?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30369	From: Margie	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: vacuum

Ok, I am now offically broke. I went on line (Pet's Mart) and found a 25 ft vacuum for $46. The $69 was a 50 ft and I don't need one that long. So I called Pet's Mart just in case,(locally) and they had one called a Aqueon for $16. Supposedly the same, just a different company. SO not knowing the difference, $16 sounds good to me. And they only had one, so I got it, then I figure I got $30 more to spend. Bought some brighter plants, a long handled cleaning tool (mine is in storage) and a can of Hikari Blood Worms. And they had Science Diet dog food on sale and I got two cases of that, so $82 plus a pet donation later I walked out of Pet's Mart. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30370	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

Chris, In addition to possible constipation that Lenny has recommended (which you may also consider using 1 Tsp of Epsom Salts per gallon for), one of these internal bacterial infections you might be watching for would be Dropsy which Dwarf Gourami's seem to be especially prone on getting. Of course its entirely possible that this fish may be egg bound, but unless you're sure its a female, the odds are very much in favor of it being a male as that is primarily the only sex that the Asian exporters ship out -- and this is where most of today's Gourami's originate from. I would recommend that if feeding green pea "meat" and Epsom Salts does not do anything to alleviate this condition, that you not only treat for an internal bacterial infection, as Lenny points out (if it appears the condition is not improving), but to treat it more specifically for Dropsy which would cover other internal bacterial infections as well, hoping to catch this in the early stages. Very much beyond Dropsy's manifestation of the "pine cone" affect of the fish's scales and its really too far along to be treatable. If it comes to treating for such an internal infection, bring the temperature up to 90 o and in addition to using Jungle's internal parasite guard as has already been recommended, treat this infection with Kanamycin (SeaChem's KanaPlex) for up to 14 days. Naladixic Acid (A.P.I.'s Nalagram) is also effective if caught early enough. With this, try feeding an anti-bacterial medicated food. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30371	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me what this equipment is?

Jerry, Okay, then it could be one or the other, but I'll go along with your identification if you're more familiar with marine apparatus, seeing as I note several other similar I.D.'s Being home made, its difficult to pin down its exact purpose -- except to point out that it is for a salt water set up rather than for fresh, which may be the reason for the question. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30372	From: pam andress	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum

Well not all vacuums are the same. The python, I think, is the best. You hook it up to your sink and drain your tanks and then refill them. No lugging of buckets. Saves me time and my back. So if the one you got does not hook up to a sink for refills, I would take it back and get a python. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: MargiePhelps@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:32:51 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] vacuum Ok, I am now offically broke. I went on line (Pet's Mart) and found a 25 ft vacuum for $46. The $69 was a 50 ft and I don't need one that long. So I called Pet's Mart just in case,(locally) and they had one called a Aqueon for $16. Supposedly the same, just a different company. SO not knowing the difference, $16 sounds good to me. And they only had one, so I got it, then I figure I got $30 more to spend. Bought some brighter plants, a long handled cleaning tool (mine is in storage) and a can of Hikari Blood Worms. And they had Science Diet dog food on sale and I got two cases of that, so $82 plus a pet donation later I walked out of Pet's Mart. --Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30373	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

I'll add the epson salt and raise the temp all the say. For now it isn't looking to good. The fish is leaning on anything that it can find support and isn't active at all. I touched it to see if it was alive and it swam away. It seems to be laborring to breath. The other 2 are fine for now. Its sad. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Chris, In addition to possible constipation that Lenny has recommended > (which you may also consider using 1 Tsp of Epsom Salts per gallon for), one of > these internal bacterial infections you might be watching for would be Dropsy > which Dwarf Gourami's seem to be especially prone on getting. > > Of course its entirely possible that this fish may be egg bound, but unless > you're sure its a female, the odds are very much in favor of it being a male as > that is primarily the only sex that the Asian exporters ship out -- and > this is where most of today's Gourami's originate from. I would recommend that > if feeding green pea "meat" and Epsom Salts does not do anything to alleviate > this condition, that you not only treat for an internal bacterial infection, as > Lenny points out (if it appears the condition is not improving), but to treat > it more specifically for Dropsy which would cover other internal bacterial > infections as well, hoping to catch this in the early stages. Very much beyond > Dropsy's manifestation of the "pine cone" affect of the fish's scales and its > really too far along to be treatable. > > If it comes to treating for such an internal infection, bring the temperature > up to 90 o and in addition to using Jungle's internal parasite guard as has > already been recommended, treat this infection with Kanamycin (SeaChem's > KanaPlex) for up to 14 days. Naladixic Acid (A.P.I.'s Nalagram) is also effective > if caught early enough. With this, try feeding an anti-bacterial medicated > food. Ray </HTML> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30374	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

If you're going to have shrimp, you need to give them some hiding places so when they molt, they'll have a chance at survival. A piece of clay pot laying flat on the gravel so only the shrimp can enter any "openings" makes a nice little shrimp cave to protect them. Otherwise, when they molt, they'll be easy pickings for the next few days. They're still susceptible even with a hard shell but have no defense after molting. NO.. that's not a "full belly". That's an extremely swollen abdominal cavity. Is the fish still eating? Oftentimes, they'll stop eating when they get that severe of bloating. That may be why you're not seeing the white stringy poop. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami I haven't seen any white poop on the bottom of the tank. I need a heater and a bio bag for the aquarium that I have sitting around for the quarantine tank. I found a ghost shrimp shell sitting on the bottom of the tank. The guy at the pet store said they might become food to the gourami and there was a Mexican stand off between a gourami and a shrimp. A guppy was attacked and died as well. Could it just be a full belly? ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 11:58:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 12:10:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30375	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

Chris, To distinguish the liquid test results more definitively, hold a piece of white cardboard (or paper) behind the test vial -- and stand in a normal lighting situation (not dim, nor strong sunlight either, but normal room lighting). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30376	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

Chris, Note that this solution (1 Tbs per gallon) of Epsom Salts is for a short-term bath of between 5 and 10 minutes, which may be repeated several times during the day as necessary. For a longer-term temporary environment which the fish will stay in for now, cut this down to 1/2 tsp per gallon. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30377	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: What cold fish you like

Hello all, I'm a little bit tire to fight the humidity in my house, since my main focus is on plants, I decide to cutoff the heater in the tank, where some are at 80'F, ( believe me, even in winter with temp below 0 outside the aquarium keep few room at 80'F ) so I will have of course to focus on fish who can live between, 78 and 76 'F or around 20 to 24 'C. I know where to get the info about the tolerance of the fish; it's more I would like the opinions of peoples, what kind of fish they keep at that temperature, what they like about them, etc. By nature of planted tank, I will avoid fish above 3 to 4" . Thanks Jerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30378	From: Margie	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum

The Python was $46 online, plus $10 shipping, The one I bought does the same and is only $16. and I have it now. It also hooks to faucet and is self syphoning. So this is fine. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from pam andress <pamandress23@...>: -------------- > Well not all vacuums are the same. The python, I think, is the best. You hook it up to your sink and drain your tanks and then refill them. No lugging of buckets. Saves me time and my back. So if the one you got does not hook up to a > sink for refills, I would take it back and get a python. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: MargiePhelps@...: Wed, 24 > Sep 2008 16:32:51 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] vacuum > > > > Ok, I am now offically broke. I went on line (Pet's Mart) and found a 25 ft vacuum for $46. The $69 was a 50 ft and I don't need one that long. So I called Pet's Mart just in case,(locally) and they had one called a Aqueon for $16. Supposedly the same, just a different company. SO not knowing the difference, $16 sounds good to me. And they only had one, so I got it, then I figure I got $30 more to spend. Bought some brighter plants, a long handled cleaning tool (mine is in storage) and a can of Hikari Blood Worms. And they had Science Diet > dog food on sale and I got two cases of that, so $82 plus a pet donation later I > walked out of Pet's Mart. --Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30379	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

Join the club. And testing the tap water may not help you! If it contains chloramines it may contain up to 1 ppm of ammonia. True 0 has no green at all, but you may rarely see it. Over time you'll get an idea of what shades of green mean what. It sounds like it's under .5 and probably under .25 - but then, I'm not looking at it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? I tested my ammonia and I cannot tell if it is yellow or greenish. It looks both to me. Either my ammonia is 0, .25, or .5. .25 and .5 look just the same to me. I cannot tell them apart. It looks like really diluted urine with a maybe a hint of green. Are my eyes bad? It looks like all 3 to me depending on the light. I don't know if I have any form of color blindness, but I can see the numbers on the color blindness tests clearly. Which ever is which, I have 3 Dwarf Gouramis, 4 ghost shirmp, atleast 10 guppies, and a butt load of plants with gevitation that needs to be trimmed of dead material. I haven't done a PWC yet and there is plenty of debri on the bottom that I probably should vacuum out. Assuming it is somewhere between .25 and .5, is this normal for the cycling process? Should I do a pwc to be safe? Is my memory also serving me right that the nitrifying bacteria hasn't had a chance to create nitrates or nitrites? Also I'm noticing a bit of algae growth, but I'm not sure if it is being fed from the nitrates from pet store water. The plants, or the nitrates from my tap. Amonia n/a Nitrates .5 Ph 7.8 ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30380	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

Lenny, I took the online tests for color blindedness. The ones at the place you apply for a drivers license too (it's the same test), and also the eye doctor's. My color vision is fine and has not changed. You got on me that my color vision must be bad, too, and you wouldn't drop it. It isn't our color vision. It's API's tests. In reality they're notoriously hard to read. Just google it. Alot of people can't make head or tail of them. Tetra's tests are inaccurate, but they're easier to read. The various values don't look almost identical. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:08 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Retest your water and give us the numbers for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte and pH. You'll see why I'm asking for this in the coming paragraphs. Here's a couple of free online color-blindness tests. I'm not sure if you've taken these or another one but figured I'd post these again for any new members of the

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30381	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

Actually, you might think so, but my test has been known to be true yellow, and as my tank has matured that happens more and more often. If you have an urban water supply you'll rarely get an ammonia value of 0 out of the tap. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > Chris, I will bet it's 0, the API give always a small greenish tint. > It's > easy to check, if your city do not use chloramines, use the faucet water > and > make a test at same time and compare the color. > > > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:31 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > > > I tested my ammonia and I cannot tell if it is yellow or greenish. It > looks both to me. Either my ammonia is 0, .25, or .5. .25 and .5 look > just the same to me. I cannot tell them apart. It looks like really > diluted urine with a maybe a hint of green. Are my eyes bad? It > looks like all 3 to me depending on the light. I don't know if I have > any form of color blindness, but I can see the numbers on the color > blindness tests clearly. > > Which ever is which, I have 3 Dwarf Gouramis, 4 ghost shirmp, atleast > 10 guppies, and a butt load of plants with gevitation that needs to be > trimmed of dead material. I haven't done a PWC yet and there is > plenty of debri on the bottom that I probably should vacuum out. > > Assuming it is somewhere between .25 and .5, is this normal for the > cycling process? Should I do a pwc to be safe? Is my memory also > serving me right that the nitrifying bacteria hasn't had a chance to > create nitrates or nitrites? > > Also I'm noticing a bit of algae growth, but I'm not sure if it is > being fed from the nitrates from pet store water. The plants, or the > nitrates from my tap. > > Amonia n/a > Nitrates .5 > Ph 7.8 > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30382	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

OK, wait a minute. Bala shark is fresh water, tropical. Gold fish are cold fresh water. You're saying that mollies are salt water? I thought they were tropical fish. Not I've ever had any. But if fish intended for very different water conditions are all in one tank it's no wonder if they're all dying. Best start with a couple of good books on aquariums. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! here we back 10, 20 years ago.......or is it 30 , yes , a long time ago they was using molly to cycle a salt tank, and it's look than some people working in fish store continue to believe it, the best way to cycle a tank, is without fish. I'm sure someone here, can give you reference to a website describing how to do it .. Jerry ........The mollys, I was told, were good for cycling a tank ....... ....... . ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30383	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum

It's very easy to spend three or four hundred dollars setting up even a small tropical fish tank. The $16 siphon will do the job. I got one of the battery operated vacuums, an eheim, which is one of hte better models - and it barely does anything at all. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:32 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] vacuum Ok, I am now offically broke. I went on line (Pet's Mart) and found a 25 ft vacuum for $46. The $69 was a 50 ft and I don't need one that long. So I called Pet's Mart just in case,(locally) and they had one called a Aqueon for $16. Supposedly the same, just a different company. SO not knowing the difference, $16 sounds good to me. And they only had one, so I got it, then I figure I got $30 more to spend. Bought some brighter plants, a long handled cleaning tool (mine is in storage) and a can of Hikari Blood Worms. And they had Science Diet dog food on sale and I got two cases of that, so $82 plus a pet donation later I walked out of Pet's Mart. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30384	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum

Oh, well, that's if you want to spend the money and the tap is nearby. I do buckets, myself. And I do daily water changes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:05 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] vacuum Well not all vacuums are the same. The python, I think, is the best. You hook it up to your sink and drain your tanks and then refill them. No lugging of buckets. Saves me time and my back. So if the one you got does not hook up to a sink for refills, I would take it back and get a python. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: MargiePhelps@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:32:51 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] vacuum Ok, I am now offically broke. I went on line (Pet's Mart) and found a 25 ft vacuum for $46. The $69 was a 50 ft and I don't need one that long. So I called Pet's Mart just in case,(locally) and they had one called a Aqueon for $16. Supposedly the same, just a different company. SO not knowing the difference, $16 sounds good to me. And they only had one, so I got it, then I figure I got $30 more to spend. Bought some brighter plants, a long handled cleaning tool (mine is in storage) and a can of Hikari Blood Worms. And they had Science Diet dog food on sale and I got two cases of that, so $82 plus a pet donation later I walked out of Pet's Mart. --Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30385	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Mollies can adjust to higher levels of salt and in the past have been used to cycle salt water tanks. I am not a believer in cycling with live fish anymore. Just mentioning it has been done succesfully. Very interesting Tropical fish, the Molly. -Mike OK, wait a minute. Bala shark is fresh water, tropical. Gold fish are cold fresh water. You're saying that mollies are salt water? I thought they were tropical fish. Not I've ever had any. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! OK, wait a minute. Bala shark is fresh water, tropical. Gold fish are cold fresh water. You're saying that mollies are salt water? I thought they were tropical fish. Not I've ever had any. But if fish intended for very different water conditions are all in one tank it's no wonder if they're all dying. Best start with a couple of good books on aquariums. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! here we back 10, 20 years ago.......or is it 30 , yes , a long time ago they was using molly to cycle a salt tank, and it's look than some people working in fish store continue to believe it, the best way to cycle a ta nk, is without fish. I'm sure someone here, can give you reference to a website describing how to do it .. Jerry ........The mollys, I was told, were good for cycling a tank ....... ....... . ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30386	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

No Molly are not Salt Water Fish, but they are brackish ( is it the good English term ? ) So they can support for a time exposure to more salt than other fish. So it's why they was using them , for start a salt tank, sentence them to die. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! > OK, wait a minute. Bala shark is fresh water, tropical. Gold fish are > cold > fresh water. You're saying that mollies are salt water? I thought they > were tropical fish. Not I've ever had any. > > But if fish intended for very different water conditions are all in one > tank > it's no wonder if they're all dying. > > Best start with a couple of good books on aquariums. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:13 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! > > > here we back 10, 20 years ago.......or is it 30 , yes , a long time ago > they was using molly to cycle a salt tank, and it's look than some people > working in fish store continue to believe it, the best way to cycle a > tank, > is without fish. I'm sure someone here, can give you reference to a > website > describing how to do it .. > > > > Jerry > > > > ........The mollys, I was told, were good for cycling a tank ....... > ....... > > > > . > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30387	From: Margie	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum

I have not treid it yet, but I am sure it will work out just fine. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>: -------------- > It's very easy to spend three or four hundred dollars setting up even a > small tropical fish tank. > > The $16 siphon will do the job. > > I got one of the battery operated vacuums, an eheim, which is one of hte > better models - and it barely does anything at all. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margie" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:32 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] vacuum > > > Ok, I am now offically broke. I went on line (Pet's Mart) and found a 25 > ft vacuum for $46. The $69 was a 50 ft and I don't need one that long. So > I called Pet's Mart just in case,(locally) and they had one called a Aqueon > for $16. Supposedly the same, just a different company. SO not knowing the > difference, $16 sounds good to me. And they only had one, so I got it, then > I figure I got $30 more to spend. Bought some brighter plants, a long > handled cleaning tool (mine is in storage) and a can of Hikari Blood Worms. > And they had Science Diet dog food on sale and I got two cases of that, so > $82 plus a pet donation later I walked out of Pet's Mart. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30388	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

I just don't think so, it's kind of yellow with a greenish tint in it, very fade one, ( and the reading on the spectrophotometer, say less than 0,01 ppm of NH3 ) If you especially hold it near the color chart where the green on the chart can reflect, the best is to hold it against something white likeRay suggest, and keep the chart far. Don't forgot also the test tube is in glass, so you will always have a fade greenish color, My water have no ammonia , chlorine or whatever in it, but if someone have it in his water, he can use an other source of water to make the calibration, grocery store have distillate water .. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > Actually, you might think so, but my test has been known to be true > yellow, > and as my tank has matured that happens more and more often. > > If you have an urban water supply you'll rarely get an ammonia value of 0 > out of the tap. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30389	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie to the group saying hello and adding some info on my tank

Hi Molly, I'm sure Lenny will have some comment about the 5 goldfish in a 25g, so I will comment only on the salt tank 1- a salt tank need more than a month to cycle 2- coral are very sensitive to nitrate, you have to keep them low, very low 3- few damsels, 2 clown and a tang, is too soon . as you said, yes you go to fast and too soon, especially in salt, it will cost you a lot to learn your mistake. It's good to be full throttle in something, but you have a learning curve too. So my suggestion is read, read and read. Jerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30390	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Chris, Note that this solution (1 Tbs per gallon) of Epsom Salts is for a > short-term bath of between 5 and 10 minutes, which may be repeated several times > during the day as necessary. For a longer-term temporary environment which > the fish will stay in for now, cut this down to 1/2 tsp per gallon. Ray </HTML> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > can I just add that to the aquarium and leave it at that? I only have one tank as of now

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30391	From: Gambusia Affinis	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: What cold fish you like

Shubunkin goldfish look like minature calico koi but tolerate 68-78F better than some carps. Gambusia affinis a small silvery live bearing fish lives in temperatures of 68-80F. Channel catfish (can reach 40 pounds) live well in ponds from 65-85F.   Gambusia. --- On Wed, 9/24/08, CanAm <canam-pc@...> wrote: From: CanAm <canam-pc@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] What cold fish you like To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 5:24 PM Hello all, I'm a little bit tire to fight the humidity in my house, since my main focus is on plants, I decide to cutoff the heater in the tank, where some are at 80'F, ( believe me, even in winter with temp below 0 outside the aquarium keep few room at 80'F ) so I will have of course to focus on fish who can live between, 78 and 76 'F or around 20 to 24 'C. I know where to get the info about the tolerance of the fish; it's more I would like the opinions of peoples, what kind of fish they keep at that temperature, what they like about them, etc. By nature of planted tank, I will avoid fish above 3 to 4" . Thanks Jerry ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30392	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4 (Ammonia) are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH. The higher the pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need to IMMEDIATELY get a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Add a pinch of salt to the tank which will help protect the fish from nitrite poisoning. Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish or goldfish. They need different water temperatures with goldfish being cool/cold water fish, not tropical temps. Unless you have immediate plans for a much larger tank, then you should bring the goldfish back since they get too big for a 35G tank anyhow. I recommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for two fancy goldfish... much larger for the long-bodied variety. What is wrong with your tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottle water what you have in your tank now that has the high pH and hardness levels? What is your tap water parameters... right out the tap and then after sitting in a bucket for 24 and then 48 hours? Post new tank water parameters with your next answer also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kit in the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats: 35 gallon fresh water cycling for 2 weeks fish have been in for 2 additional weeks 2 fancy tail golfish 2 mollies 1 irredecent shark Treating for ick with Quick Cure PH= 9.0! GH=14! NO2= 1.6 KH= 13.5 NH3/NH4= 1.5 I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottled water left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is it better to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the water change? What can I do now to help? Thanks ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:05:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:48:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Oops.. I should have clarified.. NO2- is the chemical symbol for nitrite. Without the minus sign, it would be nitrogen dioxide. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kit in the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats: 35 gallon fresh water cycling for 2 weeks fish have been in for 2 additional weeks 2 fancy tail golfish 2 mollies 1 irredecent shark Treating for ick with Quick Cure PH= 9.0! GH=14! NO2= 1.6 KH= 13.5 NH3/NH4= 1.5 I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottled water left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is it better to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the water change? What can I do now to help? Thanks ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:05:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:50:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

Do you have a quarantine tank? A sick fish should really be put it it's own tank so it can be properly treated and examined better. Either get one or more 10G tanks for free off of freecycle.org or buy the 10G kits at Walmart which are pretty cheap for even a new one. They'll come in handy for quarantine tanks as you buy new fish, hospital tanks for sick fish or grow out tanks if your fish breed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami I'll add the epson salt and raise the temp all the say. For now it isn't looking to good. The fish is leaning on anything that it can find support and isn't active at all. I touched it to see if it was alive and it swam away. It seems to be laborring to breath. The other 2 are fine for now. Its sad. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Chris, In addition to possible constipation that Lenny has recommended > (which you may also consider using 1 Tsp of Epsom Salts per gallon for), one of > these internal bacterial infections you might be watching for would be Dropsy > which Dwarf Gourami's seem to be especially prone on getting. > > Of course its entirely possible that this fish may be egg bound, but unless > you're sure its a female, the odds are very much in favor of it being a male as > that is primarily the only sex that the Asian exporters ship out -- and > this is where most of today's Gourami's originate from. I would recommend that > if feeding green pea "meat" and Epsom Salts does not do anything to alleviate > this condition, that you not only treat for an internal bacterial infection, as > Lenny points out (if it appears the condition is not improving), but to treat > it more specifically for Dropsy which would cover other internal bacterial > infections as well, hoping to catch this in the early stages. Very much beyond > Dropsy's manifestation of the "pine cone" affect of the fish's scales and its > really too far along to be treatable. > > If it comes to treating for such an internal infection, bring the temperature > up to 90 o and in addition to using Jungle's internal parasite guard as has > already been recommended, treat this infection with Kanamycin (SeaChem's > KanaPlex) for up to 14 days. Naladixic Acid (A.P.I.'s Nalagram) is also effective > if caught early enough. With this, try feeding an anti-bacterial medicated > food. Ray </HTML> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 12:19:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:53:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30395	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

I don't think it's constipation any longer now that I've seen the picture and the fish is acting more like it is really sick. You need antibacterial foods and water column treatment at this point... in a separate tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami Chris, Note that this solution (1 Tbs per gallon) of Epsom Salts is for a short-term bath of between 5 and 10 minutes, which may be repeated several times during the day as necessary. For a longer-term temporary environment which the fish will stay in for now, cut this down to 1/2 tsp per gallon. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 12:49:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:55:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30396	From: Summerfun	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Mating Texas Cichlids (think I removed wrong fish)

I have a tank that had juvinile Texas in it and I noticed that 2 had paired off and were protecting one corner of the tank.   So I took  some others out and then decided to leave a few to see who was who.  Now the unique one who is lighter on one half of its body than all the rest is not able to protect the corner and there are just others running amock.  So that means that one of the ones I removed has to be the mate.  Any help in getting the 2 back together?  I realize that I have been way overstocked but doing pwc every 10-18 days has served them well over the past three years and they are healthy .  Unfortunately we just had our local auction and I didn't realize that I had no bags left for the size they need  this time. I have sold them at 1-3 inches long for $1-$5 for about 3 or 4 fish in the past and it gives other aquarists a chance to have some of this species or to take them to their shops for resale.   Any help would be appreciated     "A True Friend walks in when the rest of the world walks out"   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30397	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: What cold fish you like

Thanks Gambusia, the Gambusia can do the job, but if you read my email, I'm not sure Gold fish + Planted tank , make a good mixture, :) , as at the chanel catfisih, I mention 3 to 4 inches, not 3 to 4 meters :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gambusia Affinis" <gambusiaaffinis@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What cold fish you like Shubunkin goldfish look like minature calico koi but tolerate 68-78F better than some carps. Gambusia affinis a small silvery live bearing fish lives in temperatures of 68-80F. Channel catfish (can reach 40 pounds) live well in ponds from 65-85F. Gambusia. --- On Wed, 9/24/08, CanAm <canam-pc@...> wrote: From: CanAm <canam-pc@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] What cold fish you like To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 5:24 PM Hello all, I'm a little bit tire to fight the humidity in my house, since my main focus is on plants, I decide to cutoff the heater in the tank, where some are at 80'F, ( believe me, even in winter with temp below 0 outside the aquarium keep few room at 80'F ) so I will have of course to focus on fish who can live between, 78 and 76 'F or around 20 to 24 'C. I know where to get the info about the tolerance of the fish; it's more I would like the opinions of peoples, what kind of fish they keep at that temperature, what they like about them, etc. By nature of planted tank, I will avoid fish above 3 to 4" . Thanks Jerry ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30398	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

Dora, Why do you say rarely? NOT all municipalities use chloramine although it is a very common disinfectant for many municipal water supplies. Considering the population of America in 2000 was around 280 million, only 35% of people had chloramine in their drinking water per the EPA's estimate. Here is a snip from the EPA's website... http://www.epa.gov/OGWDW/disinfection/chloramine/index.html How many people are using drinking water that has been treated with chloramine? While EPA does not know the absolute number of people who are using water treated with chloramine, we expect that the number exceeds the 68 million who were identified in a 1998 survey. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Actually, you might think so, but my test has been known to be true yellow, and as my tank has matured that happens more and more often. If you have an urban water supply you'll rarely get an ammonia value of 0 out of the tap. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@... <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > Chris, I will bet it's 0, the API give always a small greenish tint. > It's > easy to check, if your city do not use chloramines, use the faucet > water and make a test at same time and compare the color. > > > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:31 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > > > I tested my ammonia and I cannot tell if it is yellow or greenish. It > looks both to me. Either my ammonia is 0, .25, or .5. .25 and .5 look > just the same to me. I cannot tell them apart. It looks like really > diluted urine with a maybe a hint of green. Are my eyes bad? It > looks like all 3 to me depending on the light. I don't know if I have > any form of color blindness, but I can see the numbers on the color > blindness tests clearly. > > Which ever is which, I have 3 Dwarf Gouramis, 4 ghost shirmp, atleast > 10 guppies, and a butt load of plants with gevitation that needs to be > trimmed of dead material. I haven't done a PWC yet and there is > plenty of debri on the bottom that I probably should vacuum out. > > Assuming it is somewhere between .25 and .5, is this normal for the > cycling process? Should I do a pwc to be safe? Is my memory also > serving me right that the nitrifying bacteria hasn't had a chance to > create nitrates or nitrites? > > Also I'm noticing a bit of algae growth, but I'm not sure if it is > being fed from the nitrates from pet store water. The plants, or the > nitrates from my tap. > > Amonia n/a > Nitrates .5 > Ph 7.8 > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 12:50:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 3:08:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30399	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: What cold fish you like

Here's a list of other cool/cold water fish that I've had in my favorites folder for a few years. http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm Many will be surprised to see some fish that are commonly thought to be tropical fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gambusia Affinis Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What cold fish you like Shubunkin goldfish look like minature calico koi but tolerate 68-78F better than some carps. Gambusia affinis a small silvery live bearing fish lives in temperatures of 68-80F. Channel catfish (can reach 40 pounds) live well in ponds from 65-85F. Gambusia. --- On Wed, 9/24/08, CanAm <canam-pc@... <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> > wrote: From: CanAm <canam-pc@... <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What cold fish you like To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 5:24 PM Hello all, I'm a little bit tire to fight the humidity in my house, since my main focus is on plants, I decide to cutoff the heater in the tank, where some are at 80'F, ( believe me, even in winter with temp below 0 outside the aquarium keep few room at 80'F ) so I will have of course to focus on fish who can live between, 78 and 76 'F or around 20 to 24 'C. I know where to get the info about the tolerance of the fish; it's more I would like the opinions of peoples, what kind of fish they keep at that temperature, what they like about them, etc. By nature of planted tank, I will avoid fish above 3 to 4" . Thanks Jerry ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:42:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 3:13:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30400	From: pam andress	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum

Like I said I did not know if the one you got hooked up to the sink. I hope it works as good. I hate lugging buckets. For future reference whenever you are planning on going to petsmart, look on line for your product and copy it off. Petsmart will honor the online price if you have it printed off. Otherwise the stores normally cost more. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: MargiePhelps@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:26:25 +0000Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] vacuum The Python was $46 online, plus $10 shipping, The one I bought does the same and is only $16. and I have it now. It also hooks to faucet and is self syphoning. So this is fine. --Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from pam andress <pamandress23@...>: -------------- > Well not all vacuums are the same. The python, I think, is the best. You hook it up to your sink and drain your tanks and then refill them. No lugging of buckets. Saves me time and my back. So if the one you got does not hook up to a > sink for refills, I would take it back and get a python. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: MargiePhelps@...: Wed, 24 > Sep 2008 16:32:51 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] vacuum > > > > Ok, I am now offically broke. I went on line (Pet's Mart) and found a 25 ft vacuum for $46. The $69 was a 50 ft and I don't need one that long. So I called Pet's Mart just in case,(locally) and they had one called a Aqueon for $16. Supposedly the same, just a different company. SO not knowing the difference, $16 sounds good to me. And they only had one, so I got it, then I figure I got $30 more to spend. Bought some brighter plants, a long handled cleaning tool (mine is in storage) and a can of Hikari Blood Worms. And they had Science Diet > dog food on sale and I got two cases of that, so $82 plus a pet donation later I > walked out of Pet's Mart. --Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30401	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: What cold fish you like

Goldfish and plants can work as long as the tank is moderately to heavily planted with plants that can hold up to goldfish or that goldfish do not like. That's the key.. having enough plants so that the goldfish spread out their munching habits to where all of the plants have a chance to grow out. Also, planting the plants in containers like clay pots so they have a deeper substrate to root into without having to have a deep substrate in the entire goldfish tank. Some people paint the clay pots or cover with silicone and roll in gravel to hide the clay pots. Others use clear glass cups or the little clear plastic zip-loc type containers. Here's a couple of articles I have in my favorites folder. http://www.azgardens.com/habitats_goldfish.php (use as guide only as I've read a few bad postings on the surprise shipping costs from this site) http://thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishPlantsLowTech.html http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Plants.html http://thegab.org/Articles/PottedPlants.html http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4468/gf_plants.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What cold fish you like Thanks Gambusia, the Gambusia can do the job, but if you read my email, I'm not sure Gold fish + Planted tank , make a good mixture, :) , as at the chanel catfisih, I mention 3 to 4 inches, not 3 to 4 meters :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gambusia Affinis" <gambusiaaffinis@... <mailto:gambusiaaffinis%40yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What cold fish you like Shubunkin goldfish look like minature calico koi but tolerate 68-78F better than some carps. Gambusia affinis a small silvery live bearing fish lives in temperatures of 68-80F. Channel catfish (can reach 40 pounds) live well in ponds from 65-85F. Gambusia. --- On Wed, 9/24/08, CanAm <canam-pc@... <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> > wrote: From: CanAm <canam-pc@... <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What cold fish you like To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 5:24 PM Hello all, I'm a little bit tire to fight the humidity in my house, since my main focus is on plants, I decide to cutoff the heater in the tank, where some are at 80'F, ( believe me, even in winter with temp below 0 outside the aquarium keep few room at 80'F ) so I will have of course to focus on fish who can live between, 78 and 76 'F or around 20 to 24 'C. I know where to get the info about the tolerance of the fish; it's more I would like the opinions of peoples, what kind of fish they keep at that temperature, what they like about them, etc. By nature of planted tank, I will avoid fish above 3 to 4" . Thanks Jerry ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 3:12:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 3:24:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30402	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Lenny you put a small in my face, but your are exact, peole , including me in post always have the wrong way to express the chemical symbol , the real one for a nitrate is this one (NO2−), ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Oops.. I should have clarified.. NO2- is the chemical symbol for nitrite. Without the minus sign, it would be nitrogen dioxide. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kit in the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats: 35 gallon fresh water cycling for 2 weeks fish have been in for 2 additional weeks 2 fancy tail golfish 2 mollies 1 irredecent shark Treating for ick with Quick Cure PH= 9.0! GH=14! NO2= 1.6 KH= 13.5 NH3/NH4= 1.5 I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottled water left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is it better to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the water change? What can I do now to help? Thanks ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:05:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:50:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30403	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Uh Oh... another typo, Jerry. LOL NitrAte is NO3-, not NO2-, which would be nitrIte. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Lenny you put a small in my face, but your are exact, peole , including me in post always have the wrong way to express the chemical symbol , the real one for a nitrate is this one (NO2−), ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Oops.. I should have clarified.. NO2- is the chemical symbol for nitrite. Without the minus sign, it would be nitrogen dioxide. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kit in the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats: 35 gallon fresh water cycling for 2 weeks fish have been in for 2 additional weeks 2 fancy tail golfish 2 mollies 1 irredecent shark Treating for ick with Quick Cure PH= 9.0! GH=14! NO2= 1.6 KH= 13.5 NH3/NH4= 1.5 I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottled water left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is it better to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the water change? What can I do now to help? Thanks ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:05:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:50:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 3:28:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 3:30:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30404	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

what is a water column treatment?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30405	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Let's forgot this one , the character don't show properly because of the coding ... the minus should be superscript over and at right of the 2 who should be subscript ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! > > Lenny you put a small in my face, but your are exact, peole , including me > in post always have the wrong way to express the chemical symbol , the > real one for a nitrate is this one (NO2−), > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:50 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! > > > Oops.. I should have clarified.. NO2- is the chemical symbol for nitrite. > Without the minus sign, it would be nitrogen dioxide. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! > > Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kit > in the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats: > 35 gallon fresh water > cycling for 2 weeks > fish have been in for 2 additional weeks > 2 fancy tail golfish > 2 mollies > 1 irredecent shark > > Treating for ick with Quick Cure > > PH= 9.0! > GH=14! > NO2= 1.6 > KH= 13.5 > NH3/NH4= 1.5 > > I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottled > water left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is it > better to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the water > change? > > What can I do now to help? > Thanks > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 > Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:05:59 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 > Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:50:35 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

With the fish in a hospital tank, treating the water column with an antibiotic while also feeding the fish antibacterial food.... if it is eating. If not eating, then the water column treatment is the only option unless you are willing to bring the fish to a veterinarian who can give it a shot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami what is a water column treatment? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 3:48:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30407	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

Chris, I was under the impression that you were going to quarantine this fish (Gourami), or maybe it was just Lenny's suggestion that you do this that lead me to believe so. Since you only have one tank, yes you can add 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of Epsom Salts to the tank, starting with the lower amount and increasing it if no other fish are stressed by it; they shouldn't be as the amount is minimal, but its always best to start out on the low side. You can always add more, but its not as easy removing it (nor is it easy to reduce any stress). Be aware that this will harden your water somewhat. You should look into getting a quarantine/hospital tank in the near future, as any fish you purchase should be observed for a good while before introducing it to your main tank. This will help avoid contaminating you present fish with disease if the new fish is carrying something. Besides, its best not to medicate all the tank inhabitants if they don't all need it. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30408	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Mating Texas Cichlids (think I removed wrong fish)

I'm not sure how to address you (Kid-Collector, or Summerfun, or . . ?), since you haven't signed your post, but what you have remaining in your tank as the "unique" one is a female. In all likelihood, its male mate is one of the larger ones. Try adding all of that size back and given a short time, they should pair up again. At least this eliminates the smaller ones from having to be added back in. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30409	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

It really doesn't matter anymore. The Gourami died.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30410	From: Margie	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: vacuum

The store was the same as on line, it just had a different brand and a differfent size. BUt thaks for the advice. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from pam andress <pamandress23@...>: -------------- > > Like I said I did not know if the one you got hooked up to the sink. I hope it > works as good. I hate lugging buckets. > > > For future reference whenever you are planning on going to petsmart, look on line for your product and copy it off. Petsmart will honor the online price if > you have it printed off. Otherwise the stores normally cost more. > > > > Pam > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: MargiePhelps@...: Wed, 24 > Sep 2008 17:26:25 +0000Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] vacuum > > > > > > > > > The Python was $46 online, plus $10 shipping, The one I bought does the same and is only $16. and I have it now. It also hooks to faucet and is self syphoning. So this is fine. --Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from pam andress : -------------- > Well not all vacuums are the same. The python, I think, is the > best. You hook it up to your sink and drain your tanks and then refill them. No > lugging of buckets. Saves me time and my back. So if the one you got does not > hook up to a > sink for refills, I would take it back and get a python. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: MargiePhelps@...: > Wed, 24 > Sep 2008 16:32:51 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] vacuum > > > > Ok, I am > now offically broke. I went on line (Pet's Mart) and found a 25 ft vacuum for > $46. The $69 was a 50 ft and I don't need one that long. So I called Pet's Mart > just in case,(locally) and they had one called a Aqueon for $16. Supposedly the > same, just a different company. SO not knowing the difference, $16 sounds good > to me. And they only had one, so I got it, then I figure I got $30 more to > spend. Bought some brighter plants, a long handled cleaning tool (mine is in > storage) and a can of Hikari Blood Worms. And they had Science Diet > dog food > on sale and I got two cases of that, so $82 plus a pet donation later I > walked > out of Pet's Mart. --Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text > portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30411	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Cycling - Ammonia

I know I've seen the answer, but I cannot find it. How high should I expect my ammonia to get, and at what point should I do a PWC?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30412	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling - Ammonia

Test daily and as a general guide, any time it gets to 1.0ppm, do a PWC. Of course, this depends on your pH. If you have a higher pH and higher temp, then use the charts on this page to keep the ammonia levels in the yellow zone. This allows you to have enough ammonia to cycle the tank while minimizing the stress and/or ammonia poisoning to the fish. Using a dechlor product like SeaChem's Prime will give you a little more margin of error. If your tap water baseline has 0.5ppm of ammonia, then your PWC's will have a lesser effect on lowering the ammonia level. Prime would be recommended for this also http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html For others starting up their first tank who may be reading this... this is why me and so many other fishkeepers strongly recommend "Fishless Cycling"... so you don't have to spend all your time testing and doing PWC's and worrying about your fishes health. See my blog page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" for detailed articles on Fishless Cycling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling - Ammonia I know I've seen the answer, but I cannot find it. How high should I expect my ammonia to get, and at what point should I do a PWC? ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 4:43:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 4:52:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30413	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

We can call it also prolonged, continuous treatment or bath , He means you put the antibiotic in the water of the tank, so the water the fish breath, drink, or simply surround him is containing the medicine A short bath treatment, is when you put the fish in a small container with a concentration of medicine for a short time, ( minutes, few hours) An oral treatment will be when the fish eat the medicine directly in the mouth , the medicine is in the food or something he will eat... A topic ( hope it's translate the same in English) treatment when you put it on the skin of the fish An injection . ..... you know But may be .. you have a treatment where you put the fish in a flow table, where water is circulating with the treatment, it's use in fish farm, but I don't thing Lenny is talking about this one ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:38 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami what is a water column treatment? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30414	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling - Ammonia

Fish have different tolerance to ammonia, a gold fish tolerate more than a trout , but in a cycled tank you should have no detectable ammonia ( no detectable, because you have some ammonia but the test is not precise enough to show it, anyway at this level it will not damage the fish ) Ammonia does not call all the time right away, some time it will develop sickness who will take time before it show the effect. If you are cycling a tank, its does not matter since fish should never be present. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling - Ammonia I know I've seen the answer, but I cannot find it. How high should I expect my ammonia to get, and at what point should I do a PWC? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30415	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

I fully intend on it. I'm gonna wait to see if Walmart puts any on sale for the holidays, but if this does continue, I will medicate the whole tank since they all came from the same store, and I'm sure the same filtration. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > Does anyone here know how long it takes for a Dwarf Gourami to get > full of eggs? It seemed to have gotten fat really fast. I'm not sure > if it was snacking on a ghost shrimp, or a guppy (I'm having trouble > counting them cuz their spreading out now and plenty of places to > hide), or if it got full of eggs really fast. There are 3 Gourami in > the tank and the other 2 aren't fat. I didn't notice the plumpness > till last night either. > > I'm waiting for my pictures that I uploaded to be approved, but one of > them is of that one Gourami. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30416	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling - Ammonia

Daily testing is something I've been doing and will continue to do untill the tank is cycled but I'm not adding anymore fish until I have a quarantine tank. I'm not seeing any rise in ammonia. Is that normal, or does that take more time? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Test daily and as a general guide, any time it gets to 1.0ppm, do a PWC. Of > course, this depends on your pH. If you have a higher pH and higher temp, > then use the charts on this page to keep the ammonia levels in the yellow > zone. This allows you to have enough ammonia to cycle the tank while > minimizing the stress and/or ammonia poisoning to the fish. Using a dechlor > product like SeaChem's Prime will give you a little more margin of error. > If your tap water baseline has 0.5ppm of ammonia, then your PWC's will have > a lesser effect on lowering the ammonia level. Prime would be recommended > for this also > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html > > For others starting up their first tank who may be reading this... this is > why me and so many other fishkeepers strongly recommend "Fishless > Cycling"... so you don't have to spend all your time testing and doing PWC's > and worrying about your fishes health. See my blog page "A to Z of Fish > Keeping" for detailed articles on Fishless Cycling. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling - Ammonia > > I know I've seen the answer, but I cannot find it. How high should I expect > my ammonia to get, and at what point should I do a PWC? > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 > Tested on: 9/24/2008 4:43:47 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 > Tested on: 9/24/2008 4:52:14 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30417	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

I have heard tales of Gouramies coming from Asian fish farms having disease issues. I know a couple people at WetWebMedia that have some things to say about it. If it were me and I wanted dwarf Gouramies I would look for someone breeding and raising them in the U.S., Canada, or Europe. I have seen someone selling domestically raised Gouramies and there is Mark on AnubiasDesign that was importing fish from Europe. I buy fish for my local aquarium society and I do not even entartain the idea of buying the Asian raised dwarf Gouramies and I like the dwarf Gouramies. My two cents. -Mike I fully intend on it. I'm gonna wait to see if Walmart puts any on sale for the holidays, but if this does continue, I will medicate the whole tank since they all came from the same store, and I'm sure the same filtration. -----Original Message----- From: Chris <crjm28@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 2:57 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami I fully intend on it. I'm gonna wait to see if Walmart puts any on sale for the holidays, but if this does continue, I will medicate the whole tank since they all came from the same store, and I'm sure the same filtration. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > Does anyone here know how long it takes for a Dwarf Gourami to get > full of eggs? It seemed to have gotten fat really fast. I'm not sure > if it was snacking on a ghost shrimp, or a guppy (I'm having trouble > counting them cuz their spreading out now and plenty of places to > hide), or if it got full of eggs really fast. There are 3 Gourami in > the tank and the other 2 aren't fat. I didn't notice the plumpness > till last night either. > > I'm waiting for my pictures that I uploaded to be approved, but one of > them is of that one Gourami. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30418	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

This is probably NOT necessary. Quite often, a single fish could have a weakened immune system and get sick where all the other fish have healthy immune systems and have built up a resistance to whatever bacteria caused the lone fish to die. Just observe your fish, keep the water parameters in good shape, minimize the stress to your remaining fish and wait and see. Much like if you have three kids at home and one of them gets sick, you don't start giving them all cough syrup and/or antibiotics. Antibiotics should be used sparingly and only when necessary or the long term effect will be more antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria. Now, something I might agree with is using a three day treatment of API's MelaFix which is a mild antibacterial water treatment but it's not an antibiotic. I'm a proponent of MelaFix and PimaFix as first line of defense treatments while trying to diagnose a particular disease... but there are just as many detractors of these products. If I'm not mistaken, aren't you planning the aquaponics system? If so, you may want to stay away from all water column treatments and stick with medicated foods only as treatment for any sick fish. Let me know if you are the aquaponics planner and I'll send you a link to a good article about medicated foods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami I fully intend on it. I'm gonna wait to see if Walmart puts any on sale for the holidays, but if this does continue, I will medicate the whole tank since they all came from the same store, and I'm sure the same filtration. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > Does anyone here know how long it takes for a Dwarf Gourami to get > full of eggs? It seemed to have gotten fat really fast. I'm not sure > if it was snacking on a ghost shrimp, or a guppy (I'm having trouble > counting them cuz their spreading out now and plenty of places to > hide), or if it got full of eggs really fast. There are 3 Gourami in > the tank and the other 2 aren't fat. I didn't notice the plumpness > till last night either. > > I'm waiting for my pictures that I uploaded to be approved, but one of > them is of that one Gourami. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 5:14:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 5:32:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30419	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling - Ammonia

Don't you also have live plants? Forgive my questions but I help in a few forums so I cannot always keep each tank owner separated. If you do have live plants, they will help control the ammonia also and will grow accordingly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling - Ammonia Daily testing is something I've been doing and will continue to do untill the tank is cycled but I'm not adding anymore fish until I have a quarantine tank. I'm not seeing any rise in ammonia. Is that normal, or does that take more time? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Test daily and as a general guide, any time it gets to 1.0ppm, do a PWC. Of > course, this depends on your pH. If you have a higher pH and higher temp, > then use the charts on this page to keep the ammonia levels in the yellow > zone. This allows you to have enough ammonia to cycle the tank while > minimizing the stress and/or ammonia poisoning to the fish. Using a dechlor > product like SeaChem's Prime will give you a little more margin of error. > If your tap water baseline has 0.5ppm of ammonia, then your PWC's will have > a lesser effect on lowering the ammonia level. Prime would be recommended > for this also > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> > > For others starting up their first tank who may be reading this... this is > why me and so many other fishkeepers strongly recommend "Fishless > Cycling"... so you don't have to spend all your time testing and doing PWC's > and worrying about your fishes health. See my blog page "A to Z of > Fish Keeping" for detailed articles on Fishless Cycling. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling - Ammonia > > I know I've seen the answer, but I cannot find it. How high should I expect > my ammonia to get, and at what point should I do a PWC? > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 > 4:43:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 > 4:52:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 5:14:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 5:34:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30420	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

My API gives a perfect yellow for ammonia, no green whatsoever. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Chris, I will bet it's 0, the API give always a small greenish tint. It's easy to check, if your city do not use chloramines, use the faucet water and make a test at same time and compare the color. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@yahoo. <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? I tested my ammonia and I cannot tell if it is yellow or greenish. It looks both to me. Either my ammonia is 0, .25, or .5. .25 and .5 look just the same to me. I cannot tell them apart. It looks like really diluted urine with a maybe a hint of green. Are my eyes bad? It looks like all 3 to me depending on the light. I don't know if I have any form of color blindness, but I can see the numbers on the color blindness tests clearly. Which ever is which, I have 3 Dwarf Gouramis, 4 ghost shirmp, atleast 10 guppies, and a butt load of plants with gevitation that needs to be trimmed of dead material. I haven't done a PWC yet and there is plenty of debri on the bottom that I probably should vacuum out. Assuming it is somewhere between .25 and .5, is this normal for the cycling process? Should I do a pwc to be safe? Is my memory also serving me right that the nitrifying bacteria hasn't had a chance to create nitrates or nitrites? Also I'm noticing a bit of algae growth, but I'm not sure if it is being fed from the nitrates from pet store water. The plants, or the nitrates from my tap. Amonia n/a Nitrates .5 Ph 7.8 ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30421	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

I only have trouble differentiating the above 20ppm values for Nitrates in the API tests. My solution is to keep my water at or under 20ppm Nitrates easy and good for the fish. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Lenny, I took the online tests for color blindedness. The ones at the place you apply for a drivers license too (it's the same test), and also the eye doctor's. My color vision is fine and has not changed. You got on me that my color vision must be bad, too, and you wouldn't drop it. It isn't our color vision. It's API's tests. In reality they're notoriously hard to read. Just google it. Alot of people can't make head or tail of them. Tetra's tests are inaccurate, but they're easier to read. The various values don't look almost identical. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:08 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Retest your water and give us the numbers for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte and pH. You'll see why I'm asking for this in the coming paragraphs. Here's a couple of free online color-blindness tests. I'm not sure if you've taken these or another one but figured I'd post these again for any new members of the [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30422	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

" And people here will jump all over you about a new concept called fishless cycling. Some people here are big on it." Nothing new about fishless cycling. I first heard about it about 20 years ago and I have been doing it, for the most part, since then for new tanks (there are the times when all of a sudden I have new fish and need a tank pronto, in which case I'll use a "seasoned sponge filter to kick the cycle into gear in the new tank \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:30 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: tiggernut24@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:33:28 -0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Doesn't entirely answer your question, but the high ph is consistent with the very hard water. We have been told we have extremely hard water. There are actually people who go through 3 dishwashers a year because of it!I don't know what it's best to do for ick once you have it, but these things are often at heart water control issues.What was your nitrate level? It would help tell us if you've got an uncycled tank or the water has gone bad for another reason.Unfortuntally my test kit doest test for that. I am making a trip to a pet store today though, I'll pick up a test.Does the water appear cloudy? Currently it is cloudy because of the stuff that didnt get vacummed up this morning. Once it settles it is clearDoes alot of stuff appear in the water if you stir up the gravel? yes. I am try to vacuum once a week. I am very careful about not overfeeding though so I dont know why its so dirtyAnd just checking - ahve you got any fish in the tank who have lately gone invisible? Could be dead behind something. My pleco died a couple of days ago. He was only in our tank 2 days so I am assuiming it was the water levels or the stress of a tank moveI'd check whether the sorts of fish you've got can do well in such hard, alkaline water. Looks like they all prefer slightly alkaline to very alkaline water, thats a plus!But I looked again. I've actually got an idea that your problem is two goldfish in a new tank that isn't the size of a pond. ;) From what people've been saying about goldfish on these lists. They generate alot of waste.I'm also wondering if the goldfish and the other fish can tolerate teh same temperatures. Goldfish are cold water fish. They do best at temperatures too cold for most tropical fish. The goldfish were originally in a 2.5 gallon tank (stupid I know) so this has to be better. They are my sons (3 years old) though so I cannot get rid of them. In the smaller tank I had a very hard time keeping the water below even 80 degrees and this one stays at about 80 or belowYou have to start a new tank, even a big one, out slowly with a couple of small hardy fish like danios. And people here will jump all over you about a new concept called fishless cycling. Some people here are big on it. I didnt really even want this big of a tank! lol I felt awful about the goldfish and thought I would get them a more suitable tank. The mollys, I was told, were good for cycling a tank and the shark was a rescue. Her bro was eatten by some cinchilds so i figured my tank had to be a little better. SarahYours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@...----- Original Message ----- From: "cheeseymicron03" <cheese911@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:30 AMSubject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my mastertest kit in the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2 additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating for ick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymorebottled water left. I will get some tonight and do more in themorning. Also is it better to treat the ick or filter the junkfloating around from the water change?What can I do now to help?Thanks------------------------------------Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º>PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-<º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30423	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Bala sharks are freshwater tropicals. Goldfish are temperate water fish, not really cold water. They will do best at temperatures no higher than 68 degrees, or, basically, room temperature. They will stop eating at about 50-55 degrees, and can winter over, outdoors, in water colder than that, if they have been properly prepared. Mollies are brackish water fish, though the ones you purchase in a store have probably never seen brackish water. Brackish water fish of many kinds will spend some time in a marine environment as well as spending time in a fresh environment. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! OK, wait a minute. Bala shark is fresh water, tropical. Gold fish are cold fresh water. You're saying that mollies are salt water? I thought they were tropical fish. Not I've ever had any. But if fish intended for very different water conditions are all in one tank it's no wonder if they're all dying. Best start with a couple of good books on aquariums. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! here we back 10, 20 years ago.......or is it 30 , yes , a long time ago they was using molly to cycle a salt tank, and it's look than some people working in fish store continue to believe it, the best way to cycle a tank, is without fish. I'm sure someone here, can give you reference to a website describing how to do it .. Jerry ........The mollys, I was told, were good for cycling a tank ....... .......

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30424	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Yeah.. right! \\Steve//... I guess next your going to say you heard about that concept about putting a man on the moon too.... pure gibberish! ;-) Now I'm going to fix me a big glass of Tang and try on my new velcro strap running shoes! :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! " And people here will jump all over you about a new concept called fishless cycling. Some people here are big on it." Nothing new about fishless cycling. I first heard about it about 20 years ago and I have been doing it, for the most part, since then for new tanks (there are the times when all of a sudden I have new fish and need a tank pronto, in which case I'll use a "seasoned sponge filter to kick the cycle into gear in the new tank \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:30 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:33:28 -0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Doesn't entirely answer your question, but the high ph is consistent with the very hard water. We have been told we have extremely hard water. There are actually people who go through 3 dishwashers a year because of it!I don't know what it's best to do for ick once you have it, but these things are often at heart water control issues.What was your nitrate level? It would help tell us if you've got an uncycled tank or the water has gone bad for another reason.Unfortuntally my test kit doest test for that. I am making a trip to a pet store today though, I'll pick up a test.Does the water appear cloudy? Currently it is cloudy because of the stuff that didnt get vacummed up this morning. Once it settles it is clearDoes alot of stuff appear in the water if you stir up the gravel? yes. I am try to vacuum once a week. I am very careful about not overfeeding though so I dont know why its so dirtyAnd just checking - ahve you got any fish in the tank who have lately gone invisible? Could be dead behind something. My pleco died a couple of days ago. He was only in our tank 2 days so I am assuiming it was the water levels or the stress of a tank moveI'd check whether the sorts of fish you've got can do well in such hard, alkaline water. Looks like they all prefer slightly alkaline to very alkaline water, thats a plus!But I looked again. I've actually got an idea that your problem is two goldfish in a new tank that isn't the size of a pond. ;) From what people've been saying about goldfish on these lists. They generate alot of waste.I'm also wondering if the goldfish and the other fish can tolerate teh same temperatures. Goldfish are cold water fish. They do best at temperatures too cold for most tropical fish. The goldfish were originally in a 2.5 gallon tank (stupid I know) so this has to be better. They are my sons (3 years old) though so I cannot get rid of them. In the smaller tank I had a very hard time keeping the water below even 80 degrees and this one stays at about 80 or belowYou have to start a new tank, even a big one, out slowly with a couple of small hardy fish like danios. And people here will jump all over you about a new concept called fishless cycling. Some people here are big on it. I didnt really even want this big of a tank! lol I felt awful about the goldfish and thought I would get them a more suitable tank. The mollys, I was told, were good for cycling a tank and the shark was a rescue. Her bro was eatten by some cinchilds so i figured my tank had to be a little better. SarahYours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... <mailto:TXtiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "cheeseymicron03" <cheese911@... <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.com> >To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:30 AMSubject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my mastertest kit in the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2 additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating for ick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymorebottled water left. I will get some tonight and do more in themorning. Also is it better to treat the ick or filter the junkfloating around from the water change?What can I do now to help?Thanks------------------------------------Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º>PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-<º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 7:57:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 8:06:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30425	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling - Ammonia

Live plants? Yup! It wouldn't be an aquarium with out them good buddy! :D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30426	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

Should I put magnesium sulfate in anyway? I know its is beneficial to the plants because magnesium and sulfur are important nutrients, but will it be beneficial to the fish? What about aquarium salt? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> wrote: > > We can call it also prolonged, continuous treatment or bath , He means > you put the antibiotic in the water of the tank, so the water the fish > breath, drink, or simply surround him is containing the medicine > > > > A short bath treatment, is when you put the fish in a small container with a > concentration of medicine for a short time, ( minutes, few hours) > > > > An oral treatment will be when the fish eat the medicine directly in the > mouth , the medicine is in the food or something he will eat... > > > > A topic ( hope it's translate the same in English) treatment when you put > it on the skin of the fish > > > > An injection . ..... you know > > > > > > But may be .. you have a treatment where you put the fish in a flow table, > where water is circulating with the treatment, it's use in fish farm, but I > don't thing Lenny is talking about this one > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:38 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami > > > what is a water column treatment? > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30427	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

I just did that today. I had a small box of fish arrive right as I was leaving for work. Grabbed a sponge filter out of a seasoned tank and dropped it in a new tank and introduced the fish and went to work. Of course the tank I removed the sponge filter from had two other sponge filters. I like to keep a couple extras going in case I get new fish. there are the times when all of a sudden I have new fish and need a tank pronto, in which case I'll use a "seasoned sponge filter to kick the cycle into gear in the new tank -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 5:55 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! " And people here will jump all over you about a new concept called fishless cycling. Some people here are big on it." Nothing new about fishless cycling. I first heard about it about 20 years ago and I have been doing it, for the most part, since then for new tanks (there are the times when all of a sudden I have new fish and need a tank pronto, in which case I'll use a "seasoned sponge filter to kick the cycle into gear in the new tank \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:30 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: tiggernut24@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:33:28 -0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Doesn't entirely answer your question, but the high ph is consistent with the very hard water. We have been told we have extremely hard water. There are actually people who go through 3 dishwashers a year because of it!I don't know what it's best to do for ick once you have it, but these things are often at heart water control issues.What was your nitrate level? It would help tell us if you've got an uncycled tank or the water has gone bad for another reason.Unfortuntally my test kit doest test for that. I am making a trip to a pet store today though, I'll pick up a test.Does the water appear cloudy? Currently it is cloudy because of the stuff that didnt get vacummed up this morning. Once it settles it is clearDoes alot of stuff appear in the water if you stir up the gravel? yes. I am try to vacuum once a week. I am very careful about not overfeeding though so I dont know why its so dirtyAnd just checking - ahve you got any fish in the tank who have lately gone invisible? Could be dead behind something. My pleco died a couple of days ago. He was only in our tank 2 days so I am assuiming it was the water levels or the stress of a tank moveI'd check whether the sorts of fish you've got can do well in such hard, alkaline water. Looks like they all prefer slightly alkaline to very alkaline water, thats a plus!But I looked again. I've actually got an idea that your problem is two goldfish in a new tank that isn't the size of a pond. ;) From what people've been saying about goldfish on these lists. They generate alot of waste.I'm also wondering if the goldfish and the other fish can tolerate teh same temperatures. Goldfish are cold water fish. They do best at temperatures too cold for most tropical fish. The goldfish were originally in a 2.5 gallon tank (stupid I know) so this has to be better. They are my sons (3 years old) though so I cannot get rid of them. In the smaller tank I had a very hard time keeping the water below even 80 degrees and this one stays at about 80 or belowYou have to start a new tank, even a big one, out slowly with a couple of small hardy fish like danios. And people here will jump all over you about a new concept called fishless cycling. Some people here are big on it. I didnt really even want this big of a tank! lol I felt awful about the goldfish and thought I would get them a more suitable tank. The mollys, I was told, were good for cycling a tank and the shark was a rescue. Her bro was eatten by some cinchilds so i figured my tank had to be a little better. SarahYours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@...----- Original Message ----- From: "cheeseymicron03" <cheese911@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:30 AMSubject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my mastertest k it in the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2 additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating for ick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymorebottled water left. I will get some tonight and do more in themorning. Also is it better to treat the ick or filter the junkfloating around from the water change?What can I do now to help?Thanks------------------------------------Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º>PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-<º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´A F`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30428	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Okay so I made a trip to the pet store today. They sent me home with some Aquarium salt (I put in 6tbl spoons) some stress coat + for the ammonia and to help with the stress. I put in 6 tsp. They also gave me some melafix to help my shark with pop eye so i put in 3 tsp of it. I also picked up some drift wood to help with the hardness. I havent put that in yet. These are my tap water results: PH= 7.5 NO2-=<.3mg Ammonia=0ml GH=14 and here are my new tank conditions (this mornings): ph= 9(9) no2-= .8(1.6) ammonia = 0(1.5) GH=12 (14) which is alot better. As you can see my tap water is extremely hard. I had orignally filled my tank with my tap water. thought thats why I was having so many problems. Apparently its just the hardness. what would be messing with my ph? So this is what I am going to continue doing: Continue treating the pop eye with melafix for the next 6 days, contiune with the Quick Cure for Ich for 1 more day unless needed and add the drift wood. Any other suggestions? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia) are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higher the pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELY get a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch of salt to the tank which will help protect the fish from nitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish or goldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish being cool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans for a much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they get too big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for two fancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong with your tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you have in your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tap water parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for 24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answer also.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2 additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating for ick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can I do now to help?Thanks________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:05:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:48:14 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30429	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Lenny, I'm not sure I understand this reply, do you believe or not in fishless cycling ?? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Yeah.. right! \\Steve//... I guess next your going to say you heard about that concept about putting a man on the moon too.... pure gibberish! ;-) Now I'm going to fix me a big glass of Tang and try on my new velcro strap running shoes! :-D

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30430	From: CanAm	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

Chris , just to make sure, Ray give you a receipe for Epsom salt, Epsom salt = Magnesium Sulphate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:28 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami Should I put magnesium sulfate in anyway? I know its is beneficial to the plants because magnesium and sulfur are important nutrients, but will it be beneficial to the fish? What about aquarium salt? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> wrote: > > We can call it also prolonged, continuous treatment or bath , He means > you put the antibiotic in the water of the tank, so the water the fish > breath, drink, or simply surround him is containing the medicine > > > > A short bath treatment, is when you put the fish in a small container with a > concentration of medicine for a short time, ( minutes, few hours) > > > > An oral treatment will be when the fish eat the medicine directly in the > mouth , the medicine is in the food or something he will eat... > > > > A topic ( hope it's translate the same in English) treatment when you put > it on the skin of the fish > > > > An injection . ..... you know > > > > > > But may be .. you have a treatment where you put the fish in a flow table, > where water is circulating with the treatment, it's use in fish farm, but I > don't thing Lenny is talking about this one > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:38 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami > > > what is a water column treatment? > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30431	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

No, you should not treat fish with epsom salt as a general rule. It's used as a "natural" laxative for constipated fish and can also be used for other ailments... but like any medicine, the fish should not be exposed to it all the time or when not "medically" necessary. Aquarium salt is just plain old salt. I just saw another group member got conned into buying aquarium salt at their pet store. It's a lot cheaper at the grocery store... about 35 cents a pound at my local grocer. Even less if you buy in bulk if you have a water softener or do lots of pickling... as long as it's just salt (NaCl - Sodium Chloride) although using Iodized salt in small amounts has not caused any problems for people either. Avoid salt products that list one or more preservatives on the label. Most common table salt, kosher salt, etc., do not contain preservatives since salt already is one. Many plants and some fish are not as tolerant of salt so check out your individual plant/fish species to make sure they are OK with salt before dosing the tank. In your case, I think you just had a single fish with a weakened immune system that succumbed to one of the many common bacteria that fish live with on a daily basis. The fish could have had a weakened immune system from being shipped to the store, too many acclimations to the several tanks it had to go through, etc. I do not believe in using salt all of the time with freshwater fish. God doesn't do it, Mother Nature doesn't do it, so why should we? Here's a couple of articles.. one by a Veterinarian, about the use or non-use of salt. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Kebus_Salt_Treatments.html http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami Should I put magnesium sulfate in anyway? I know its is beneficial to the plants because magnesium and sulfur are important nutrients, but will it be beneficial to the fish? What about aquarium salt? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> wrote: > > We can call it also prolonged, continuous treatment or bath , He means > you put the antibiotic in the water of the tank, so the water the fish > breath, drink, or simply surround him is containing the medicine > > > > A short bath treatment, is when you put the fish in a small container with a > concentration of medicine for a short time, ( minutes, few hours) > > > > An oral treatment will be when the fish eat the medicine directly in the > mouth , the medicine is in the food or something he will eat... > > > > A topic ( hope it's translate the same in English) treatment when you put > it on the skin of the fish > > > > An injection . ..... you know > > > > > > But may be .. you have a treatment where you put the fish in a flow table, > where water is circulating with the treatment, it's use in fish farm, but I > don't thing Lenny is talking about this one > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:38 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: One pudgie Gourami > > > what is a water column treatment? > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 8:32:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 8:54:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30432	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

I also forgot to mention that I have some anacharis in there as well but only 6 7in clipings. They are starting to die though so. i need to get them clipped off. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia) are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higher the pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELY get a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch of salt to the tank which will help protect the fish from nitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish or goldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish being cool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans for a much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they get too big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for two fancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong with your tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you have in your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tap water parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for 24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answer also.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2 additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating for ick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can I do now to help?Thanks________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:05:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:48:14 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

You need to do a tap water baseline test. Fill up a gallon bucket with tap water. Test it. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait another 24 hours and test it again. We need to find out if the pH of your tap is going up from 7.5 to 9.0 or if something in your tank is raising it. Usually, the pH out of the tap will go down after the water is exposed to air but if your water source is a well, then they sometimes have higher levels of CO2 in the water which will outgas after the water is exposed to air. CO2 will lower the pH so that could be why your pH is lower right out the tap and then rises once the water is exposed to air. The only way to know is to do the tap water baseline tests. If you are reading all posts made to the group, you'll see I just replied to another member about "Aquarium Salt". There is no need to buy that again. It's the same as the salt in the Morton Salt or non-brand name salt that you buy at the store for 35 cents a pound. Further, when "salting" a tank, you should not add the full dose at once but rather no more than 1/3rd at a time, every 12 hours, until you reach the full dose over the course of 24 hours. Adding a full dose at once can cause osmotic shock to the fish and also kill off your nitrifying bacteria... although in your case, your tank isn't cycled yet so you don't have to worry about that issue. The Stress Coat probably wasn't needed and I don't add all of them stress-this or slime-that type products to my tanks. It's just adding unnecessary chemicals into a closed environment. This is why I recommended getting Prime as it doesn't have any of the unneeded chemicals in it. I have used Melafix and it has worked for me in the past but you have to worry that you are doing too much, too fast, which can also cause problems. None of these products answers your bigger problems of having incompatible fish (cool water and tropicals) and not having a large enough tank. All the medicines or water treatments in the world will not fix those problems. Please, for you and your fish sake... and any other members reading this... ask us here first what you should buy/use instead of getting conned out of your money at the pet stores. Most of the time, it was their bad advice that got you into trouble in the first place. I'll try to remember when telling someone to use a "pinch of salt to protect against nitrite poisoning"... that I mean plain old table salt.... plain or iodized when only using a pinch. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:29 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Okay so I made a trip to the pet store today. They sent me home with some Aquarium salt (I put in 6tbl spoons) some stress coat + for the ammonia and to help with the stress. I put in 6 tsp. They also gave me some melafix to help my shark with pop eye so i put in 3 tsp of it. I also picked up some drift wood to help with the hardness. I havent put that in yet. These are my tap water results: PH= 7.5 NO2-=<.3mg Ammonia=0ml GH=14 and here are my new tank conditions (this mornings): ph= 9(9) no2-= .8(1.6) ammonia = 0(1.5) GH=12 (14) which is alot better. As you can see my tap water is extremely hard. I had orignally filled my tank with my tap water. thought thats why I was having so many problems. Apparently its just the hardness. what would be messing with my ph? So this is what I am going to continue doing: Continue treating the pop eye with melafix for the next 6 days, contiune with the Quick Cure for Ich for 1 more day unless needed and add the drift wood. Any other suggestions? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia) are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higher the pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELY get a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch of salt to the tank which will help protect the fish from nitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish or goldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish being cool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans for a much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they get too big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for two fancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong with your tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you have in your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tap water parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for 24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answer also.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2 additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating for ick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can I do now to help?Thanks________________________________ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:17:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Yes, I'm a HUGE proponent of "Fishless Cycling".. using plain ammonia for a first time tank owner or using healthy cycled filter media if you already suffer from MTS (multiple tank syndrome) or know someone with a healthy fish tank. The smileys, ;-) and :-D, meant I was winking and smiling to show I was being sarcastic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Lenny, I'm not sure I understand this reply, do you believe or not in fishless cycling ?? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Yeah.. right! \\Steve//... I guess next your going to say you heard about that concept about putting a man on the moon too.... pure gibberish! ;-) Now I'm going to fix me a big glass of Tang and try on my new velcro strap running shoes! :-D ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 8:48:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:23:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30435	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

You may want to remove the live plants since you have dosed the tank with salt. Many FW plants do not do well with salt treatments. Just put them in a bucket of fresh water with a drop of dechlor and they should be fine until you are done with salting your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:03 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I also forgot to mention that I have some anacharis in there as well but only 6 7in clipings. They are starting to die though so. i need to get them clipped off. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia) are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higher the pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELY get a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch of salt to the tank which will help protect the fish from nitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish or goldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish being cool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans for a much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they get too big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for two fancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong with your tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you have in your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tap water parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for 24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answer also.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2 additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating for ick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can I do now to help?Thanks________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:05:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:48:14 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:09:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:26:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30436	From: jules27au	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Yet - Another Ammonia Query

Hi Everyone, I've just had an acid, ammonia spike & don't ask what's happened to the inhabitants... yes I've been a little bit slack with cleaning the tank, so I take full responsibility. I've had the problem before & I'm not sure I ever really got rid of it. Last time, I vacuumed 2/3's water daily, cleaned the filter, washed the tank out & felt like a gold prospector when I washed the gravel. Is part of the problem that I haven't changed the gravel completely or that I use one bucket & one bucket only for water changes - note the water is boiled & then cooled appropriately - contents of what comes out of the tank, goes on the plants which they love. Where does the ammonia live exactly, in the water, the fish, the gravel or the filter? My plan of attack is to empty the tank, wash the gravel & replace same - (should I replace the gravel totally?), then run the tank for a couple of weeks, checking the chemistry every week, then add a plant, run for a couple of weeks, again check the chemistry, then add a comet or something similar to build up the "chemistry" & then perhaps after christmas, populate my tank with a silver dollar. Yes, I had three 50 cents silver dollars in my 60 litre tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30437	From: jtpollito	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: plywood

hey everyone, i am gonna try this chat room thing out, and since its about fish and the obsession( at least with me) in keeping them,cool.my name is Jason and i live in chino hills ca. i have a 55g with one tiger oscar who is VERY fiesty and i am planning to build a 700+g aquarium out of plywood. anyone interested in talking about that?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30438	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

This is the biggest reason why I recommend the AquaTru kits by Kordon. It is pretty easy to distinguish the colors and they also make it easy for you to determine the true color no matter what color your water is (and your water will have some color to it). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Lenny, I took the online tests for color blindedness. The ones at the place you apply for a drivers license too (it's the same test), and also the eye doctor's. My color vision is fine and has not changed. You got on me that my color vision must be bad, too, and you wouldn't drop it. It isn't our color vision. It's API's tests. In reality they're notoriously hard to read. Just google it. Alot of people can't make head or tail of them. Tetra's tests are inaccurate, but they're easier to read. The various values don't look almost identical. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:08 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Retest your water and give us the numbers for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte and pH. You'll see why I'm asking for this in the coming paragraphs. Here's a couple of free online color-blindness tests. I'm not sure if you've taken these or another one but figured I'd post these again for any new members of the

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30439	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

Well, Fairfax county went to chloramines a few years ago, so there is another million people drinking water thus treated. I believe that most of the DC area is now using chloramines in the public water, so there are a few million more. I would not be surprised if you found this kind of growth across the country, so the EPA estimate is probably way low. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Dora, Why do you say rarely? NOT all municipalities use chloramine although it is a very common disinfectant for many municipal water supplies. Considering the population of America in 2000 was around 280 million, only 35% of people had chloramine in their drinking water per the EPA's estimate. Here is a snip from the EPA's website... http://www.epa.gov/OGWDW/disinfection/chloramine/index.html How many people are using drinking water that has been treated with chloramine? While EPA does not know the absolute number of people who are using water treated with chloramine, we expect that the number exceeds the 68 million who were identified in a 1998 survey. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Actually, you might think so, but my test has been known to be true yellow, and as my tank has matured that happens more and more often. If you have an urban water supply you'll rarely get an ammonia value of 0 out of the tap. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@... <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > Chris, I will bet it's 0, the API give always a small greenish tint. > It's > easy to check, if your city do not use chloramines, use the faucet > water and make a test at same time and compare the color. > > > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:31 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > > > I tested my ammonia and I cannot tell if it is yellow or greenish. It > looks both to me. Either my ammonia is 0, .25, or .5. .25 and .5 look > just the same to me. I cannot tell them apart. It looks like really > diluted urine with a maybe a hint of green. Are my eyes bad? It > looks like all 3 to me depending on the light. I don't know if I have > any form of color blindness, but I can see the numbers on the color > blindness tests clearly. > > Which ever is which, I have 3 Dwarf Gouramis, 4 ghost shirmp, atleast > 10 guppies, and a butt load of plants with gevitation that needs to be > trimmed of dead material. I haven't done a PWC yet and there is > plenty of debri on the bottom that I probably should vacuum out. > > Assuming it is somewhere between .25 and .5, is this normal for the > cycling process? Should I do a pwc to be safe? Is my memory also > serving me right that the nitrifying bacteria hasn't had a chance to > create nitrates or nitrites? > > Also I'm noticing a bit of algae growth, but I'm not sure if it is > being fed from the nitrates from pet store water. The plants, or the > nitrates from my tap. > > Amonia n/a > Nitrates .5 > Ph 7.8 > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30440	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

how do i get the salt out after i'm done salting it? I've read it doesnt evaperate, does the carbon get it out? sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:26:28 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! You may want to remove the live plants since you have dosed the tank withsalt. Many FW plants do not do well with salt treatments. Just put them ina bucket of fresh water with a drop of dechlor and they should be fine untilyou are done with salting your tank. Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:03 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I also forgot to mention that I have some anacharis in there as well butonly 6 7in clipings. They are starting to die though so. i need to get themclipped off."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks________________________________avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > :Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008Tested on:9/24/2008 9:05:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):080924-0, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:48:14 PMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:09:08 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:26:28 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30441	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

I had read somewhere to just use plain salt but I was at the store and it was only 1.99 for 16 oz. So with the two different types of fish I'm kinda stuck. Would it be better to leave them in the same tank or put my two mollies and shark in the 2.5 gallon? those are my only options right now. I know it sounds really cruel but fish stores around here dont take fish back and I cannot get a bigger tank. It was hard enough to talk my hubby into getting this one! :-I I do have water sitting I have to wait and test it tomorrow for the first 24 hours. The stress coat plus also removes ammonia so I think thats why it went down so far. Thats why I used it. I know I'm doing to much too fast but I dont know what is most important to treat first. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:17:48 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! You need to do a tap water baseline test. Fill up a gallon bucket with tapwater. Test it. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait another 24 hoursand test it again. We need to find out if the pH of your tap is going upfrom 7.5 to 9.0 or if something in your tank is raising it. Usually, the pHout of the tap will go down after the water is exposed to air but if yourwater source is a well, then they sometimes have higher levels of CO2 in thewater which will outgas after the water is exposed to air. CO2 will lowerthe pH so that could be why your pH is lower right out the tap and thenrises once the water is exposed to air. The only way to know is to do thetap water baseline tests.If you are reading all posts made to the group, you'll see I just replied toanother member about "Aquarium Salt". There is no need to buy that again.It's the same as the salt in the Morton Salt or non-brand name salt that youbuy at the store for 35 cents a pound. Further, when "salting" a tank, youshould not add the full dose at once but rather no more than 1/3rd at atime, every 12 hours, until you reach the full dose over the course of 24hours. Adding a full dose at once can cause osmotic shock to the fish andalso kill off your nitrifying bacteria... although in your case, your tankisn't cycled yet so you don't have to worry about that issue.The Stress Coat probably wasn't needed and I don't add all of themstress-this or slime-that type products to my tanks. It's just addingunnecessary chemicals into a closed environment. This is why I recommendedgetting Prime as it doesn't have any of the unneeded chemicals in it.I have used Melafix and it has worked for me in the past but you have toworry that you are doing too much, too fast, which can also cause problems.None of these products answers your bigger problems of having incompatiblefish (cool water and tropicals) and not having a large enough tank. All themedicines or water treatments in the world will not fix those problems.Please, for you and your fish sake... and any other members reading this...ask us here first what you should buy/use instead of getting conned out ofyour money at the pet stores. Most of the time, it was their bad advicethat got you into trouble in the first place. I'll try to remember when telling someone to use a "pinch of salt to protectagainst nitrite poisoning"... that I mean plain old table salt.... plain oriodized when only using a pinch.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:29 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Okay so I made a trip to the pet store today. They sent me home with someAquarium salt (I put in 6tbl spoons) some stress coat + for the ammonia andto help with the stress. I put in 6 tsp. They also gave me some melafix tohelp my shark with pop eye so i put in 3 tsp of it. I also picked up somedrift wood to help with the hardness. I havent put that in yet. These are mytap water results: PH= 7.5 NO2-=<.3mg Ammonia=0ml GH=14 and here are my newtank conditions (this mornings): ph= 9(9) no2-= .8(1.6) ammonia = 0(1.5)GH=12 (14) which is alot better.As you can see my tap water is extremely hard. I had orignally filled mytank with my tap water. thought thats why I was having so many problems.Apparently its just the hardness. what would be messing with my ph?So this is what I am going to continue doing: Continue treating the pop eyewith melafix for the next 6 days, contiune with the Quick Cure for Ich for 1more day unless needed and add the drift wood. Any other suggestions?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks_____________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:17:48 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30442	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Jerry, Lenny does believe in fishless cycling. And, Lenny, I heard that they want to put a man on the moon in the next decade. Don't know if they'll ever do it--it is awful far off, but they will probably find out, once and for all it is made of cheese. (Humor, Jerry, they call it humor.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Lenny, I'm not sure I understand this reply, do you believe or not in fishless cycling ?? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Yeah.. right! \\Steve//... I guess next your going to say you heard about that concept about putting a man on the moon too.... pure gibberish! ;-) Now I'm going to fix me a big glass of Tang and try on my new velcro strap running shoes! :-D

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30443	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Water changes will remove the salt over a period of time. You want to use kosher or canning slat, rather than iodized table salt, though there is no harm in using table salt in a pinch. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:30 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! how do i get the salt out after i'm done salting it? I've read it doesnt evaperate, does the carbon get it out? sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:26:28 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! You may want to remove the live plants since you have dosed the tank withsalt. Many FW plants do not do well with salt treatments. Just put them ina bucket of fresh water with a drop of dechlor and they should be fine untilyou are done with salting your tank. Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:03 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I also forgot to mention that I have some anacharis in there as well butonly 6 7in clipings. They are starting to die though so. i need to get themclipped off."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks________________________________avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > :Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008Tested on:9/24/2008 9:05:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):080924-0, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:48:14 PMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:09:08 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:26:28 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30444	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood

I'm sure you've been doing lots of research and reading. Here's a few pages I have in my favorites folder that might help. 700G is a lot of water volume and will weigh close to 6,000 pounds so make sure you put it in a structurally sound location.. preferably on a reinforced concrete slab. DIY Plywood/Glass Aquarium plans - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_plywood_aquarium2.php Garf's page as mentioned in the above article - http://www.garf.org/tank/buildtank.asp Monster Fish Keepers DIY page - http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30 Take lots of pictures from start to finish so you can write up a nice article about it. I'll probably be converting one or more of my "old" TV's into tanks sometime next year since they're on the verge of being obsolete anyhow. Getting the remote to work for turning on the lights and other effects will be the hard part. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jtpollito Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] plywood hey everyone, i am gonna try this chat room thing out, and since its about fish and the obsession( at least with me) in keeping them,cool.my name is Jason and i live in chino hills ca. i have a 55g with one tiger oscar who is VERY fiesty and i am planning to build a 700+g aquarium out of plywood. anyone interested in talking about that? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 10:29:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30445	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood

Out of plywood? I am interested in hearing your theory and plan on that. Heather -----Original Message----- From: jtpollito <boldtjt@...> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] plywood hey everyone, i am gonna try this chat room thing out, and since its about fish and the obsession( at least with me) in keeping them,cool.my name is Jason and i live in chino hills ca. i have a 55g with one tiger oscar who is VERY fiesty and i am planning to build a 700+g aquarium out of plywood. anyone interested in talking about that? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30446	From: jtpollito	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Yet - Another Ammonia Query

ammonia is IN the water, due to to many fish, to much feeding of the fish, no water changes...you know that. but why do you boil the water you put in the tank? to remove the chlorine and chloramines? that seems to be a lot of work!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30447	From: jason	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: plywood anyone?

what i really wanna talk about is big filters,pumps etc for big tanks...any takers?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

So even if it's up to 50% of the U.S. population today... or an increase of 80 million people over the past 10 years, that still leaves 150 millions folks that don't have chloramine treated tap water. Oops.. I just noticed I had a typo in my original reply where I said 35% of people had chloramine treated water in 1998 where it should have been 25%. I corrected the answer below. Check with your local utility to find out which of the many available disinfecting systems they use on your water supply. Even with chloramine treated water, when doing a 25% PWC, a basic dechlor product will break the bond of chlorine and ammonia, treat the chlorine and any heavy metals and the very small amount of residual ammonia (0.125ppm) will easily be handled by the biofiltration of an established tank which can usually process 4-5ppm of ammonia per day in a safely stocked tank. This very low level of residual ammonia will not even show up on an API ammonia test after the 25% PWC. If you test your tap water, after using a dechlor during the tap water baseline test, you may get an ammonia test level of 0.25 to 0.5ppm. But when doing a 25% PWC, you will be diluting this low level of ammonia by 1/4th. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Well, Fairfax county went to chloramines a few years ago, so there is another million people drinking water thus treated. I believe that most of the DC area is now using chloramines in the public water, so there are a few million more. I would not be surprised if you found this kind of growth across the country, so the EPA estimate is probably way low. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Dora, Why do you say rarely? NOT all municipalities use chloramine although it is a very common disinfectant for many municipal water supplies. Considering the population of America in 2000 was around 280 million, only 25% of people had chloramine in their drinking water per the EPA's estimate. Here is a snip from the EPA's website... http://www.epa.gov/OGWDW/disinfection/chloramine/index.html <http://www.epa.gov/OGWDW/disinfection/chloramine/index.html> How many people are using drinking water that has been treated with chloramine? While EPA does not know the absolute number of people who are using water treated with chloramine, we expect that the number exceeds the 68 million who were identified in a 1998 survey. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Actually, you might think so, but my test has been known to be true yellow, and as my tank has matured that happens more and more often. If you have an urban water supply you'll rarely get an ammonia value of 0 out of the tap. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@... <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > Chris, I will bet it's 0, the API give always a small greenish tint. > It's > easy to check, if your city do not use chloramines, use the faucet > water and make a test at same time and compare the color. > > > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:31 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > > > I tested my ammonia and I cannot tell if it is yellow or greenish. It > looks both to me. Either my ammonia is 0, .25, or .5. .25 and .5 look > just the same to me. I cannot tell them apart. It looks like really > diluted urine with a maybe a hint of green. Are my eyes bad? It looks > like all 3 to me depending on the light. I don't know if I have any > form of color blindness, but I can see the numbers on the color > blindness tests clearly. > > Which ever is which, I have 3 Dwarf Gouramis, 4 ghost shirmp, atleast > 10 guppies, and a butt load of plants with gevitation that needs to be > trimmed of dead material. I haven't done a PWC yet and there is plenty > of debri on the bottom that I probably should vacuum out. > > Assuming it is somewhere between .25 and .5, is this normal for the > cycling process? Should I do a pwc to be safe? Is my memory also > serving me right that the nitrifying bacteria hasn't had a chance to > create nitrates or nitrites? > > Also I'm noticing a bit of algae growth, but I'm not sure if it is > being fed from the nitrates from pet store water. The plants, or the > nitrates from my tap. > > Amonia n/a > Nitrates .5 > Ph 7.8 > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 10:09:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 10:57:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30449	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

By doing a series of 25% PWC's (partial water changes), no more than one every six hours. Six 25% PWC's will lower the salinity levels back to nearly fresh water. Carbon does not remove salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:30 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! how do i get the salt out after i'm done salting it? I've read it doesnt evaperate, does the carbon get it out? sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:26:28 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! You may want to remove the live plants since you have dosed the tank withsalt. Many FW plants do not do well with salt treatments. Just put them ina bucket of fresh water with a drop of dechlor and they should be fine untilyou are done with salting your tank. Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:03 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I also forgot to mention that I have some anacharis in there as well butonly 6 7in clipings. They are starting to die though so. i need to get themclipped off."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks________________________________avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > :Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008Tested on:9/24/2008 9:05:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):080924-0, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:48:14 PMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30450	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

I hope none of the astronauts cut the cheese while there. I'm presuming those space suits are air-tight. That also means no pull-the-finger jokes while in a space suit either. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Jerry, Lenny does believe in fishless cycling. And, Lenny, I heard that they want to put a man on the moon in the next decade. Don't know if they'll ever do it--it is awful far off, but they will probably find out, once and for all it is made of cheese. (Humor, Jerry, they call it humor.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Lenny, I'm not sure I understand this reply, do you believe or not in fishless cycling ?? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Yeah.. right! \\Steve//... I guess next you're going to say you heard about that concept about putting a man on the moon too.... pure gibberish! ;-) Now I'm going to fix me a big glass of Tang and try on my new velcro strap running shoes! :-D ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 10:20:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 11:03:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30451	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood

Now I am interested. Thanks for the link Lenny. I am going to check it out. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] plywood I'm sure you've been doing lots of research and reading. Here's a few pages I have in my favorites folder that might help. 700G is a lot of water volume and will weigh close to 6,000 pounds so make sure you put it in a structurally sound location.. preferably on a reinforced concrete slab. DIY Plywood/Glass Aquarium plans - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_plywood_aquarium2.php Garf's page as mentioned in the above article - http://www.garf.org/tank/buildtank.asp Monster Fish Keepers DIY page - http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30 Take lots of pictures from start to finish so you can write up a nice article about it. I'll probably be converting one or more of my "old" TV's into tanks sometime next year since they're on the verge of being obsolete anyhow. Getting the remote to work for turning on the lights and other effects will be the hard part. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jtpollito Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] plywood hey everyone, i am gonna try this chat room thing out, and since its about fish and the obsession( at least with me) in keeping them,cool.my name is Jason and i live in chino hills ca. i have a 55g with one tiger oscar who is VERY fiesty and i am planning to build a 700+g aquarium out of plywood. anyone interested in talking about that? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 10:29:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30452	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood anyone?

Jason, I don't want to steer you away from this group but I haven't seen many members ever talking about DIY GIANT TANKS. That link to Monster Fish Keepers forums might be your best bet for finding informed GIANT TANK owners. Here's an article where a guy built a 2500G tank into his basement. http://www.anythingfish.com/Todds%20rays/Todds%20Concrete%20Tank/ToddsConcre teFishTank.htm and the corresponding MFK forum page http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23529 If the first link breaks, just go to http://www.anythingfish.com and click on the link "ENTER" above the photo for "Todd's 2500 Gallon Sting Ray Tank" in the middle of the home page. What kind of fish are you planning for your giant tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jason Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] plywood anyone? what i really wanna talk about is big filters,pumps etc for big tanks...any takers? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 11:14:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30453	From: Jason Boldt	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood

i'm going to put it out on the patio in my back yard. heating and cooling it are going to be a big challenge. i think the slab is about 6 to 8 inches thick. the other challenge is the circulation and filtration design...no McGyvor solutions here thank you! I will absolutely document. you can buy infared emmiters and receivers on line and at super geek electronics stores ( not Radio Shack! ) a couple of relays and BAM! my dad threw out an old 27" console tv a few years ago that was 8ft long and i told him i wanted to make it into an aquarium... he said, " how you gonna make them fish go, wire em up and use the remote?" : ) > I'm sure you've been doing lots of research and reading. Here's a few > pages > I have in my favorites folder that might help. 700G is a lot of water > volume and will weigh close to 6,000 pounds so make sure you put it > in a > structurally sound location.. preferably on a reinforced concrete > slab. > > DIY Plywood/Glass Aquarium plans - > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_plywood_aquarium2.php > > Garf's page as mentioned in the above article - > http://www.garf.org/tank/buildtank.asp > > Monster Fish Keepers DIY page - > http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30 > > Take lots of pictures from start to finish so you can write up a nice > article about it. > > I'll probably be converting one or more of my "old" TV's into tanks > sometime > next year since they're on the verge of being obsolete anyhow. > Getting the > remote to work for turning on the lights and other effects will be > the hard > part. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of jtpollito > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] plywood > > hey everyone, i am gonna try this chat room thing out, and since its > about > fish and the obsession( at least with me) in keeping them,cool.my > name is > Jason and i live in chino hills ca. i have a 55g with one tiger oscar > who is > VERY fiesty and i am planning to build a > 700+g aquarium out of plywood. anyone interested in talking about > that? > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 > Tested on: 9/24/2008 10:29:50 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30454	From: jason	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood

The construction is pretty straight forward. quality lumber, common sense planning like only using waterproof glue etc. i plan on gluing 1/16" PVC sheeting to the 3/4" plywood sides and back. i will use 1" plywood for the bottom and at least 1/2"glass. i will also incorporate a filter into the design as an integral part of the tank. i will use things like lava rock, filter floss( fiberfil pillow stuffing)wiers and removable baskets etc. the thing i want most out of this challenge is the satisfaction that i built EVERYTHING. i think the grin factor is worth it alone! :} plus the tank will be HUGE! ;)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30455	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood

OK. We have a recent member (Hans Brost) of this group who built his own OUTDOOR BIG TANK on his back patio a few years back... I think down in Florida. Here's a link to his own website http://www.wizardscave.com/aquarium.html where he goes into pretty good detail with lots of pics so I'm sure you'll find lots of ideas on the plumbing, filtration, thermal cooling-heating system, etc. What area of the country do you live in? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Boldt Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] plywood i'm going to put it out on the patio in my back yard. heating and cooling it are going to be a big challenge. i think the slab is about 6 to 8 inches thick. the other challenge is the circulation and filtration design...no McGyvor solutions here thank you! I will absolutely document. you can buy infared emmiters and receivers on line and at super geek electronics stores ( not Radio Shack! ) a couple of relays and BAM! my dad threw out an old 27" console tv a few years ago that was 8ft long and i told him i wanted to make it into an aquarium... he said, " how you gonna make them fish go, wire em up and use the remote?" : ) > I'm sure you've been doing lots of research and reading. Here's a few > pages > I have in my favorites folder that might help. 700G is a lot of water > volume and will weigh close to 6,000 pounds so make sure you put it > in a > structurally sound location.. preferably on a reinforced concrete > slab. > > DIY Plywood/Glass Aquarium plans - > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_plywood_aquarium2.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_plywood_aquarium2.php> > > Garf's page as mentioned in the above article - > http://www.garf.org/tank/buildtank.asp <http://www.garf.org/tank/buildtank.asp> > > Monster Fish Keepers DIY page - > http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30 <http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30> > > Take lots of pictures from start to finish so you can write up a nice > article about it. > > I'll probably be converting one or more of my "old" TV's into tanks > sometime > next year since they're on the verge of being obsolete anyhow. > Getting the > remote to work for turning on the lights and other effects will be > the hard > part. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of jtpollito > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] plywood > > hey everyone, i am gonna try this chat room thing out, and since its > about > fish and the obsession( at least with me) in keeping them,cool.my > name is > Jason and i live in chino hills ca. i have a 55g with one tiger oscar > who is > VERY fiesty and i am planning to build a > 700+g aquarium out of plywood. anyone interested in talking about > that? > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 > Tested on: 9/24/2008 10:29:50 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 11:31:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 11:40:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30456	From: Jason Boldt	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood anyone?

i want oscars, an arowana and a peacock bass. it shouldnt be much different than a smaller tank theoretically... : ] i want to make a community tank out of my 55g. thanks for the links. jason On Sep 24, 2008, at 9:14 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote:

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30457	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood

Sounds interesting. Now my fiances mind is twirling with thoughts of plywood and glass aquariums....he has been planning an in the wall aquarium for awhile now but only has reasearched all the ins and outs and possabilties so far. We would in no way ever have a place for such a large tank as you are planning...lol. Our 3 55's take up quite a bit of room as it is thats why my fiance has been thinking in wall aquariums. Heather -----Original Message----- From: jason <boldtjt@...> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: plywood The construction is pretty straight forward. quality lumber, common sense planning like only using waterproof glue etc. i plan on gluing 1/16" PVC sheeting to the 3/4" plywood sides and back. i will use 1" plywood for the bottom and at least 1/2"glass. i will also incorporate a filter into the design as an integral part of the tank. i will use things like lava rock, filter floss( fiberfil pillow stuffing)wiers and removable baskets etc. the thing i want most out of this challenge is the satisfaction that i built EVERYTHING. i think the grin factor is worth it alone! :} plus the tank will be HUGE! ;) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30458	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood

If I had three identical tanks, like 55G's, I'd go vertical with a stand that held all three tanks. Three tanks in the same space as one tank. If you wanted them in the wall and visible to two rooms, since 55G's are only 12" wide by 48" long, you could even open up a non-load bearing wall, remove two of the 2 x 4's and build the vertical stand into that wall so the three tanks are visible from either room with one of the rooms being the main service room to the tanks for PWC's, etc., and the other room being strictly a display room. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: plywood Sounds interesting. Now my fiances mind is twirling with thoughts of plywood and glass aquariums....he has been planning an in the wall aquarium for awhile now but only has reasearched all the ins and outs and possabilties so far. We would in no way ever have a place for such a large tank as you are planning...lol. Our 3 55's take up quite a bit of room as it is thats why my fiance has been thinking in wall aquariums. Heather -----Original Message----- From: jason <boldtjt@... <mailto:boldtjt%40verizon.net> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: plywood The construction is pretty straight forward. quality lumber, common sense planning like only using waterproof glue etc. i plan on gluing 1/16" PVC sheeting to the 3/4" plywood sides and back. i will use 1" plywood for the bottom and at least 1/2"glass. i will also incorporate a filter into the design as an integral part of the tank. i will use things like lava rock, filter floss( fiberfil pillow stuffing)wiers and removable baskets etc. the thing i want most out of this challenge is the satisfaction that i built EVERYTHING. i think the grin factor is worth it alone! :} plus the tank will be HUGE! ;) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 12:32:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 12:39:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30459	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Re: plywood

The guy we get our fish from suggested the same exact thing with the vertical stand for all three. Thats how his new shop he just built is set up with the verticle stands that are attached to (part of) the walls but the aquariums are not in the wall. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: plywood If I had three identical tanks, like 55G's, I'd go vertical with a stand that held all three tanks. Three tanks in the same space as one tank. If you wanted them in the wall and visible to two rooms, since 55G's are only 12" wide by 48" long, you could even open up a non-load bearing wall, remove two of the 2 x 4's and build the vertical stand into that wall so the three tanks are visible from either room with one of the rooms being the main service room to the tanks for PWC's, etc., and the other room being strictly a display room. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: plywood Sounds interesting. Now my fiances mind is twirling with thoughts of plywood and glass aquariums....he has been planning an in the wall aquarium for awhile now but only has reasearched all the ins and outs and possabilties so far. We would in no way ever have a place for such a large tank as you are planning...lol. Our 3 55's take up quite a bit of room as it is thats why my fiance has been thinking in wall aquariums. Heather -----Original Message----- From: jason <boldtjt@... <mailto:boldtjt%40verizon.net> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: plywood The construction is pretty straight forward. quality lumber, common sense planning like only using waterproof glue etc. i plan on gluing 1/16" PVC sheeting to the 3/4" plywood sides and back. i will use 1" plywood for the bottom and at least 1/2"glass. i will also incorporate a filter into the design as an integral part of the tank. i will use things like lava rock, filter floss( fiberfil pillow stuffing)wiers and removable baskets etc. the thing i want most out of this challenge is the satisfaction that i built EVERYTHING. i think the grin factor is worth it alone! :} plus the tank will be HUGE! ;) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 12:32:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 12:39:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30460	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: Fasting

I've heard of fasting used to heal from injury or illness, but is fasting practiced on fish to reduce stress of a new tank or recover from infection?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30461	From: Chris	Date: 9/24/2008
Subject: In tank ammonia meeters

I'm not talking about digital or electronic monitoring devices. I was at the local pet store today and saw meters that test separately for different water chemistry or ph. I didn't read the package to see how it worked, but I know you suction cup it from inside the tank, and you get a 24/7 reading of what ever chemistry it is made for. I saw them for $6 and they last 6 weeks. That sounds cheaper and and way more convenient than using test kits all the time. I'm hopping to start a q tank and a second tank, and I like to work smarter, not harder. Does anyone here have experience with them?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30462	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fasting

Haven't heard of it as you indicate but I often read where some goldfish keepers do fast their goldfish a day or two each week. I personally believe the fasting of goldfish was started and is perpetuated to make things easier on the fish keeper... rather than the fish... since so many goldfish are kept in undersized tanks. By not feeding them as much, it lowers the bioload on the undersized tank. In nature, goldfish are perpetual eaters spending the majority of their time foraging for food. Oftentimes, you'll see people refer to goldfish as plant destroyers but I think this is a by-product of underfeeding them so they start munching on the plants. With my two fancy goldfish in a 65G tank that is moderately planted, my goldfish rarely munch on and only occasionally nibble at my anacharis and leave the firmer leaved plants alone completely. They will suck up any duckweed that I throw in their tanks. I grow out duckweed in my cherry shrimp tank for that purpose. Many pet stores tell people to limit the feeding of their new fish when they first bring them home but I believe the reason for this is 90% of pet stores know nothing about fishless cycling or even cycling with fish so they tell people not to feed the fish to minimize the waste from the fish to minimize the bioload on the new tank. All this really does is cause stunting of juvenile fish. Fry and juvis need to eat often... 5-6 times a day for fry and 3-4 times a day for juvis, as they have higher metabolisms due to their growth rate. Not feeding them adequately will cause them to be stunted... much like not feeding a baby properly would cause it health issues. Of course a baby that is hungry will cry like crazy until someone feeds it... fish do not have this "feed me" alarm! ;-) If the new tank had been fishless cycled first, the nitrifying bacteria colonies would be large enough to handle the bioload of all of the new fish so limiting the feeding would not be necessary. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fasting I've heard of fasting used to heal from injury or illness, but is fasting practiced on fish to reduce stress of a new tank or recover from infection? ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 1:23:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 2:19:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30463	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

The SeaChem in tank monitors last longer than the Mardel. I've used them both. Most recently, I tried the Mardel three-in-one monitors with the replaceable cartridges only because PetsMart had an online sale and I had a PetsMart Perks coupon so it was nearly free... otherwise I would not have purchase it. The SeaChem Ammonia monitor will last around a year and the SeaChem pH monitor will last around six months. The Mardel monitors only last a month to six weeks. I think the pH monitor is more practical than the ammonia monitor since the ammonia monitor is really only useful in the first month or two. After your tank is fully established, cycled and planted, you'll likely never have to deal with ammonia ever again unless you have to add medicine that might have a negative effect on the nitrifying bacteria colonies. At least the pH monitor would alert you to a constantly lowering pH as the water quality lessens, which would prompt people to do their weekly PWC's. I regularly contact SeaChem and Mardel to see if they will ever come out with a Nitrate monitor but they both say the technology isn't available to do this inexpensively like for ammonia and pH monitors. Another good thing I like on my tanks is the little stick on thermometer. I have a good floating thermometer but at least with the stick on ones, I can see my water temperature at a glance every time I'm checking out the tanks, feeding the pigs, etc. Once you "learn" your tank(s), you'll get away from the need for frequent testing and learn to rely on your experience and strict maintenance schedule for PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance so that you will not have water chemistry issues to deal with. If your water quality does go out of range, you'll notice different behavior from your fish which will alert you to something being wrong... then you can test it to confirm whether it's water parameters or something else. I probably only test my tanks once a month or less now.. really just to use the test kits as they'll go out of date and I'll have to trash them anyhow if I don't use them. After doing daily testing in the beginning, then tapering down to weekly testing, then bi-weekly and then monthly, I pretty much know that my maintenance schedule for each tank keeps my water parameters in good shape. If any kind of issue ever pops up with any of my fish or critters, then I would test the water to see if something might have gone wrong but other than that, I just test it every month or two now to reinforce what I already know. For folks that push the limits of their stocking on their tanks, then more frequent testing will always be necessary. Whenever I do have my test kits out to test a tank, I also test my tap water and do a 48 hour baseline test on the tap water several times a year. I've learned how my tap water baseline changes with the seasons and temperatures. This is something that the tank monitors will not be able to do for you and you also will not have the ability to test nitrite, nitrate, GH or KH. The monitors are OK for a helpful tool but they cannot replace the master test kits as a necessary tool for all fish keepers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] In tank ammonia meeters I'm not talking about digital or electronic monitoring devices. I was at the local pet store today and saw meters that test separately for different water chemistry or ph. I didn't read the package to see how it worked, but I know you suction cup it from inside the tank, and you get a 24/7 reading of what ever chemistry it is made for. I saw them for $6 and they last 6 weeks. That sounds cheaper and and way more convenient than using test kits all the time. I'm hopping to start a q tank and a second tank, and I like to work smarter, not harder. Does anyone here have experience with them? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 2:43:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30464	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: plywood anyone?

For that size tank, you are looking at a pump that can handle 2000-4000 gallons per hour at your given head. You'll need small pond sized filtration, with a mechanical filter followed by a biological filter. Probably something like a sump tank as used by some marine aquarists. I don't know where you are located, nor where your tank will be located, but, you'll need a system to maintain your desired temperature, to lower it during the summer, and raise it other times, possibly located outside the tank inline with the water circulation. The actual construction of the tank will be important, and you will need to pay attention to the design and details of the actual construction. I would presume that you will have one or more "windows into your tank rather than a glass "wall". You will need to properly attach the glass or acrylic to hold it in place and prevent leaks. This is a project that will take a lot of work, and some time to complete. It is not for the faint of heart. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jason Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] plywood anyone? what i really wanna talk about is big filters,pumps etc for big tanks...any takers?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30465	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

That’s $365 annually for a tester that does only one chemical versus $35 for a kit that does 6 chemicals and lasts a year or more. It seems to me the kit is less expensive and I expect more accurate. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] In tank ammonia meeters I'm not talking about digital or electronic monitoring devices. I was at the local pet store today and saw meters that test separately for different water chemistry or ph. I didn't read the package to see how it worked, but I know you suction cup it from inside the tank, and you get a 24/7 reading of what ever chemistry it is made for. I saw them for $6 and they last 6 weeks. That sounds cheaper and and way more convenient than using test kits all the time. I'm hopping to start a q tank and a second tank, and I like to work smarter, not harder. Does anyone here have experience with them? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30466	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: One pudgie Gourami

No, don't use the magnesium sulfate (Epsom Salts) anywat, Chris. While this amount is minimal to fish, its still much more than would be trace elements found in the water and will only serve to harden your water. Besides, this is meant to act as a laxative for the affected fish, and will have such an extended effect on all your fish as long as it remains in the water column. This is just one reason why you need a separate hospital tank -- to avoid the other fish from being unnecessarily impacted by the effects of chemicals and/or medicines you may need to treat with. No need for regular table salt either. These fish were never subjected to it in the eons it took for them to evolve in their freshwater habitats. There are some freshwater fish which cannot tolerate very much more than can most freshwater aquatic plants. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30467	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

To anyone who's fish may be in danger of getting "Brown Blood" syndrome (as a result of elevated nitrogenous waste): While this subject has been approached several times in the past by myself, more recently as a result of some of the members getting themselves (and their fish) into trouble because of high ammonia and nitrites in their water column, especially when combined with higher pH's, this same subject has again surfaced. The recomendation for the use of table salt in preventing the onset of Brown Blood (when these nitrogen compounds (Read: Nitrite) adversely affect the red hemoglobin in your fishes' red blood cells) has been stated as using a pinch of salt in your aquarium water. Some hobbyists here may wonder what this "pinch" may consist of, or whether there is a more accurate measure of it to ensure the prevention of this condition. One may wonder too, just how turning the red corpuscles brown would affect their functioning. Simply put, the blood is no longer able to efficiently pick up fresh oxygen through the gill membranes. Once this condition is observed to have already affected the fish, it can be reversed but only through much work and time -- and you have still put the fish at risk of burning their gills in high concentrations of ammonia. To clear up the condition, one must progressively add salt (after first removing the toxic nitrogenous compounds via PWC's), in three smaller increments 12 hours apart, until you attain at least a 0.3% solution, or 1 Tablespoon (approx 2.4 teaspoons) of salt per gallon in your aquarium. This strength of solution must be maintained until its seen that the condition has cleared, still while doing regular PWC's, and can take up to 14 days or so to clear up completely. In the meantime, the fish are naturally under stress and will be seen to be listless and refusing to eat (and still may die in the interum). If such toxic conditions are suspected as being the state of your tank, or are suspected as possibly becoming the state of your tank, due to factors immediately beyond your control, its much easier (and so much less stressful on the fish) to have a token amount of salt already in your water column which will prevent this condition from occurring in the first place -- salt inhibits the uptake of nitrite and ammonia by fish. This token amount to be used as a prophylactic is in the amount of solution of no more than 0.03% (or 0.24 teaspoons per gallon) of salt -- or 1/4 tsp per gallon, although the "pinch" of 1/8 tsp of salt per gallon is sufficient. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30468	From: CanAm	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Funny thing about my angel

Ray, I have something special this morning, my pair of angel, are moving ( in their mouth) the eggs from one Echino leave to an other, It's look than in the process they help them to release from the shell ( if we can call it a shell ) a as the one in the new leave are already wiggling. May be I will discover a breeder in me after 35 years J

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30469	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Funny thing about my angel

Jerry, Best of luck with them. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30470	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Ray, Just to be clear. For folks stuck with "Cycling With Fish", one teaspoon of table salt per 294G of water will protect fish from nitrite poisoning, as a PREVENTATIVE, which is why I say only a "pinch" when talking about a 10G tank... or 1/30th of a teaspoon if you have a measuring cup that small... maybe a coke-spoon would be the right size if you can still find them at your local head shop. LOL A "pinch" is close enough for preventative purposes. From: http://www.aquascienceresearch.com/APInfo/Salt.htm (START SNIP) For nitrite poisoning salt can impart protection to the fishes. This happens only if the salt content is such that the chloride ion’s concentration is about 30 times that of the nitrite ion concentration in the water. Typically, nitrite becomes toxic at about 0.1 mg/L (mg/L = ppm). This means that the chloride ion concentration would have to be at least 3.0 mg/L. This concentration translates into one of about 5.0 mg/L of salt (NaCl is 60.66% chloride, Cl-); this is equivalent to 18.7 mg/gallon. A teaspoon of table salt is about 5.5 grams (or 5,500 mg); a teaspoon of table salt would be sufficient to protect fishes living in approximately 294 gallons of water! A standard treatment of NovAqua will typically provide enough protection. For simple osmoregulatory stress protection, on an indefinite basis, one can use 1 to 3 mg/L of salt. This would be equivalent to one teaspoon of salt added to 484 to 1,453 gallons of water! (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! To anyone who's fish may be in danger of getting "Brown Blood" syndrome (as a result of elevated nitrogenous waste): While this subject has been approached several times in the past by myself, more recently as a result of some of the members getting themselves (and their fish) into trouble because of high ammonia and nitrites in their water column, especially when combined with higher pH's, this same subject has again surfaced. The recomendation for the use of table salt in preventing the onset of Brown Blood (when these nitrogen compounds (Read: Nitrite) adversely affect the red hemoglobin in your fishes' red blood cells) has been stated as using a pinch of salt in your aquarium water. Some hobbyists here may wonder what this "pinch" may consist of, or whether there is a more accurate measure of it to ensure the prevention of this condition. One may wonder too, just how turning the red corpuscles brown would affect their functioning. Simply put, the blood is no longer able to efficiently pick up fresh oxygen through the gill membranes. Once this condition is observed to have already affected the fish, it can be reversed but only through much work and time -- and you have still put the fish at risk of burning their gills in high concentrations of ammonia. To clear up the condition, one must progressively add salt (after first removing the toxic nitrogenous compounds via PWC's), in three smaller increments 12 hours apart, until you attain at least a 0.3% solution, or 1 Tablespoon (approx 2.4 teaspoons) of salt per gallon in your aquarium. This strength of solution must be maintained until its seen that the condition has cleared, still while doing regular PWC's, and can take up to 14 days or so to clear up completely. In the meantime, the fish are naturally under stress and will be seen to be listless and refusing to eat (and still may die in the interum). If such toxic conditions are suspected as being the state of your tank, or are suspected as possibly becoming the state of your tank, due to factors immediately beyond your control, its much easier (and so much less stressful on the fish) to have a token amount of salt already in your water column which will prevent this condition from occurring in the first place -- salt inhibits the uptake of nitrite and ammonia by fish. This token amount to be used as a prophylactic is in the amount of solution of no more than 0.03% (or 0.24 teaspoons per gallon) of salt -- or 1/4 tsp per gallon, although the "pinch" of 1/8 tsp of salt per gallon is sufficient. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 7:39:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 9:24:53 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30471	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

That helps, to be sure, but those tricks don't really resolve the problem of what shade means what. With experience you will eventually get a pretty good idea, but in the meantime, something isn't wrong with you if you can't make sense of the color results. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? I just don't think so, it's kind of yellow with a greenish tint in it, very fade one, ( and the reading on the spectrophotometer, say less than 0,01 ppm of NH3 ) If you especially hold it near the color chart where the green on the chart can reflect, the best is to hold it against something white likeRay suggest, and keep the chart far. Don't forgot also the test tube is in glass, so you will always have a fade greenish color, My water have no ammonia , chlorine or whatever in it, but if someone have it in his water, he can use an other source of water to make the calibration, grocery store have distillate water .. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > Actually, you might think so, but my test has been known to be true > yellow, > and as my tank has matured that happens more and more often. > > If you have an urban water supply you'll rarely get an ammonia value of 0 > out of the tap. > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30472	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

Rarely in my case. But I am seeing yellow more often since my tank has matured. Now, I also test once or twice a week now instead of every day like I once did. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Dora, Why do you say rarely? NOT all municipalities use chloramine although it is a very common disinfectant for many municipal water supplies. Considering the population of America in 2000 was around 280 million, only 35% of people had chloramine in their drinking water per the EPA's estimate. Here is a snip from the EPA's website... http://www.epa.gov/OGWDW/disinfection/chloramine/index.html How many people are using drinking water that has been treated with chloramine? While EPA does not know the absolute number of people who are using water treated with chloramine, we expect that the number exceeds the 68 million who were identified in a 1998 survey. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Actually, you might think so, but my test has been known to be true yellow, and as my tank has matured that happens more and more often. If you have an urban water supply you'll rarely get an ammonia value of 0 out of the tap. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@... <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > Chris, I will bet it's 0, the API give always a small greenish tint. > It's > easy to check, if your city do not use chloramines, use the faucet > water and make a test at same time and compare the color. > > > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:31 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > > > I tested my ammonia and I cannot tell if it is yellow or greenish. It > looks both to me. Either my ammonia is 0, .25, or .5. .25 and .5 look > just the same to me. I cannot tell them apart. It looks like really > diluted urine with a maybe a hint of green. Are my eyes bad? It > looks like all 3 to me depending on the light. I don't know if I have > any form of color blindness, but I can see the numbers on the color > blindness tests clearly. > > Which ever is which, I have 3 Dwarf Gouramis, 4 ghost shirmp, atleast > 10 guppies, and a butt load of plants with gevitation that needs to be > trimmed of dead material. I haven't done a PWC yet and there is > plenty of debri on the bottom that I probably should vacuum out. > > Assuming it is somewhere between .25 and .5, is this normal for the > cycling process? Should I do a pwc to be safe? Is my memory also > serving me right that the nitrifying bacteria hasn't had a chance to > create nitrates or nitrites? > > Also I'm noticing a bit of algae growth, but I'm not sure if it is > being fed from the nitrates from pet store water. The plants, or the > nitrates from my tap. > > Amonia n/a > Nitrates .5 > Ph 7.8 > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 12:50:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 3:08:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30473	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

How accurate are the Aqua Tru tests? Tetra's are also easy to read - but the results seem to be all over the place relative to API's and people say that API's are more accurate. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? This is the biggest reason why I recommend the AquaTru kits by Kordon. It is pretty easy to distinguish the colors and they also make it easy for you to determine the true color no matter what color your water is (and your water will have some color to it). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Lenny, I took the online tests for color blindedness. The ones at the place you apply for a drivers license too (it's the same test), and also the eye doctor's. My color vision is fine and has not changed. You got on me that my color vision must be bad, too, and you wouldn't drop it. It isn't our color vision. It's API's tests. In reality they're notoriously hard to read. Just google it. Alot of people can't make head or tail of them. Tetra's tests are inaccurate, but they're easier to read. The various values don't look almost identical. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:08 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Retest your water and give us the numbers for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte and pH. You'll see why I'm asking for this in the coming paragraphs. Here's a couple of free online color-blindness tests. I'm not sure if you've taken these or another one but figured I'd post these again for any new members of the ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30474	From: josh4fish	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Bubbles...

Hey all, Just purchased a Borneo Sucker. I understand they like lots of running water and oxygen. Would a bubble wand work? What other relativley cheap ideas do you have? Thanks. Josh

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30475	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

Oh. I see. I believe I did use the word rarely to refer to the the frequency of test results of 0 ammonia in my tank, not the frequency with which people have chloramines in their water. I never intended to venture a guess to that. It's something they tend to do in places wehre teh water is more thoroughly and systematically treated. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Lenny is right that 35% of people in the country live where the water is not that systematically treated. The point to adding chloramines is that they work longer than chlorine does, so if you've got a large water system through which water travels for miles to get to where it's going I guess you would use chloramine. In Texas water quality standards get more stringent with increasing size of the place, and are completely different from those for private wells. Also I have an idea that at one time they used to supplement the water treatment at outlying water treatment substations in Austin, and they are doing away with that practice. We have a water treatment substation out here for our municipal utility district that uses City of Austin services, and at one time they further treated the water. That is no longer done. However to avoid taht I bet the chloramine level is higher closer to the water treatment stations on the river than it is out here. I kept hearing that the chloramine level is "still" above 2.0 out here so they don't have to retreat it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Well, Fairfax county went to chloramines a few years ago, so there is another million people drinking water thus treated. I believe that most of the DC area is now using chloramines in the public water, so there are a few million more. I would not be surprised if you found this kind of growth across the country, so the EPA estimate is probably way low. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Dora, Why do you say rarely? NOT all municipalities use chloramine although it is a very common disinfectant for many municipal water supplies. Considering the population of America in 2000 was around 280 million, only 35% of people had chloramine in their drinking water per the EPA's estimate. Here is a snip from the EPA's website... http://www.epa.gov/OGWDW/disinfection/chloramine/index.html How many people are using drinking water that has been treated with chloramine? While EPA does not know the absolute number of people who are using water treated with chloramine, we expect that the number exceeds the 68 million who were identified in a 1998 survey. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Actually, you might think so, but my test has been known to be true yellow, and as my tank has matured that happens more and more often. If you have an urban water supply you'll rarely get an ammonia value of 0 out of the tap. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@... <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > Chris, I will bet it's 0, the API give always a small greenish tint. > It's > easy to check, if your city do not use chloramines, use the faucet > water and make a test at same time and compare the color. > > > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:31 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? > > > I tested my ammonia and I cannot tell if it is yellow or greenish. It > looks both to me. Either my ammonia is 0, .25, or .5. .25 and .5 look > just the same to me. I cannot tell them apart. It looks like really > diluted urine with a maybe a hint of green. Are my eyes bad? It > looks like all 3 to me depending on the light. I don't know if I have > any form of color blindness, but I can see the numbers on the color > blindness tests clearly. > > Which ever is which, I have 3 Dwarf Gouramis, 4 ghost shirmp, atleast > 10 guppies, and a butt load of plants with gevitation that needs to be > trimmed of dead material. I haven't done a PWC yet and there is > plenty of debri on the bottom that I probably should vacuum out. > > Assuming it is somewhere between .25 and .5, is this normal for the > cycling process? Should I do a pwc to be safe? Is my memory also > serving me right that the nitrifying bacteria hasn't had a chance to > create nitrates or nitrites? > > Also I'm noticing a bit of algae growth, but I'm not sure if it is > being fed from the nitrates from pet store water. The plants, or the > nitrates from my tap. > > Amonia n/a > Nitrates .5 > Ph 7.8 > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30476	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling - Ammonia

Lenny's advice is well founded; the toxicity of ammonia varies with the ph and the temperature of the water, and Lenny can point you to charts and formulas. As a practical matter I found that if my ammonia level is allowed to stay above .5 ppm I start to have sick fish. Now, my water is fairly alkaline at 7.4 to 7.8 It is 8.4 to 9.0 out of the tap but the ph drops dramatically the minute air bubbles through it, and I always bubble air through it for a few hours before putting it in the tank so that hte ph is the same as that in the tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:52 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling - Ammonia Test daily and as a general guide, any time it gets to 1.0ppm, do a PWC. Of course, this depends on your pH. If you have a higher pH and higher temp, then use the charts on this page to keep the ammonia levels in the yellow zone. This allows you to have enough ammonia to cycle the tank while minimizing the stress and/or ammonia poisoning to the fish. Using a dechlor product like SeaChem's Prime will give you a little more margin of error. If your tap water baseline has 0.5ppm of ammonia, then your PWC's will have a lesser effect on lowering the ammonia level. Prime would be recommended for this also http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html For others starting up their first tank who may be reading this... this is why me and so many other fishkeepers strongly recommend "Fishless Cycling"... so you don't have to spend all your time testing and doing PWC's and worrying about your fishes health. See my blog page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" for detailed articles on Fishless Cycling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling - Ammonia I know I've seen the answer, but I cannot find it. How high should I expect my ammonia to get, and at what point should I do a PWC? ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 4:43:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 4:52:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30477	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fasting

I bet it's common practice to do what it takes to improve their water quality, and that may mean fasting them for a day or so. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:17 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fasting I've heard of fasting used to heal from injury or illness, but is fasting practiced on fish to reduce stress of a new tank or recover from infection? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30478	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Oh, one other thing. Bubble air through the water in the bucket. The ph in my water that I'm preparing to put in the tank doesn't come down if I jsut leave it sit; only if I bubble air through it. In your actual aquarium you probably bubble air through it, and if you don't it's because the filter helps mix air into the water. i am wondering if that is really why your ph would be going UP dramatically, particularly since the high ph is consistent with the high water hardness and alkalinity. I am noticing that your numbers often don't make alot of sense. For example, ammonia sky high one day and 0 the next? Not possible unless you did a 100% water change. And got all the fish waste out of the tank. Try doing each test twice. ;) If you're using the API tests, make sure you are shaking the bottles thoroughly, especially with the tests that tell you for example to shake the bottle for 30 seconds or a minute, that you're doing that right before you add drops to the test tube and not a minute or two sooner and then you set down teh bottles until you're ready for them, that your test tubes are clean - and even rinsed in what you're going to test in them, and that you hold the bottles vertically upside down over the test tube and let the drops form slowly and all the way before you let them drop one at a time into the test tube. I've seen these things make a big difference, for example, in the results of my high ph test - and for that you're barely supposed to even have to shake the bottle! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! You need to do a tap water baseline test. Fill up a gallon bucket with tap water. Test it. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait another 24 hours and test it again. We need to find out if the pH of your tap is going up from 7.5 to 9.0 or if something in your tank is raising it. Usually, the pH out of the tap will go down after the water is exposed to air but if your water source is a well, then they sometimes have higher levels of CO2 in the water which will outgas after the water is exposed to air. CO2 will lower the pH so that could be why your pH is lower right out the tap and then rises once the water is exposed to air. The only way to know is to do the tap water baseline tests. If you are reading all posts made to the group, you'll see I just replied to another member about "Aquarium Salt". There is no need to buy that again. It's the same as the salt in the Morton Salt or non-brand name salt that you buy at the store for 35 cents a pound. Further, when "salting" a tank, you should not add the full dose at once but rather no more than 1/3rd at a time, every 12 hours, until you reach the full dose over the course of 24 hours. Adding a full dose at once can cause osmotic shock to the fish and also kill off your nitrifying bacteria... although in your case, your tank isn't cycled yet so you don't have to worry about that issue. The Stress Coat probably wasn't needed and I don't add all of them stress-this or slime-that type products to my tanks. It's just adding unnecessary chemicals into a closed environment. This is why I recommended getting Prime as it doesn't have any of the unneeded chemicals in it. I have used Melafix and it has worked for me in the past but you have to worry that you are doing too much, too fast, which can also cause problems. None of these products answers your bigger problems of having incompatible fish (cool water and tropicals) and not having a large enough tank. All the medicines or water treatments in the world will not fix those problems. Please, for you and your fish sake... and any other members reading this... ask us here first what you should buy/use instead of getting conned out of your money at the pet stores. Most of the time, it was their bad advice that got you into trouble in the first place. I'll try to remember when telling someone to use a "pinch of salt to protect against nitrite poisoning"... that I mean plain old table salt.... plain or iodized when only using a pinch. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:29 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Okay so I made a trip to the pet store today. They sent me home with some Aquarium salt (I put in 6tbl spoons) some stress coat + for the ammonia and to help with the stress. I put in 6 tsp. They also gave me some melafix to help my shark with pop eye so i put in 3 tsp of it. I also picked up some drift wood to help with the hardness. I havent put that in yet. These are my tap water results: PH= 7.5 NO2-=<.3mg Ammonia=0ml GH=14 and here are my new tank conditions (this mornings): ph= 9(9) no2-= .8(1.6) ammonia = 0(1.5) GH=12 (14) which is alot better. As you can see my tap water is extremely hard. I had orignally filled my tank with my tap water. thought thats why I was having so many problems. Apparently its just the hardness. what would be messing with my ph? So this is what I am going to continue doing: Continue treating the pop eye with melafix for the next 6 days, contiune with the Quick Cure for Ich for 1 more day unless needed and add the drift wood. Any other suggestions? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia) are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higher the pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELY get a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch of salt to the tank which will help protect the fish from nitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish or goldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish being cool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans for a much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they get too big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for two fancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong with your tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you have in your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tap water parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for 24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answer also.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2 additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating for ick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can I do now to help?Thanks________________________________ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:17:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30479	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Lenny, could the live plants be raising hte ph in her tank above the ph of the tap water? They remove nitrogen wastes and phosphates from the water. They also use carbon dioxide, which acidifies the water. The diatom bloom that lowered the levels of both nitrates and phosphates in my tank to 0, did a wonder at raising the ph in my tank while it was at it. I'm not sure if it's the nitrogen waste products themselves or the process of converting them that creates acid in the tank, and I believe that phosphates definitely acidify the tank. The phosphate level is high in my tap water. This is part of why it was so remarkable when it was suddenly 0. The nitrate level is 0 too, after a week and a half of neglecting the tank, and there's brown stuff covering everything that turn out ot be diatoms under the microscope? I thought, OK, I think we know where it went. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! You may want to remove the live plants since you have dosed the tank with salt. Many FW plants do not do well with salt treatments. Just put them in a bucket of fresh water with a drop of dechlor and they should be fine until you are done with salting your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:03 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I also forgot to mention that I have some anacharis in there as well but only 6 7in clipings. They are starting to die though so. i need to get them clipped off. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia) are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higher the pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELY get a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch of salt to the tank which will help protect the fish from nitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish or goldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish being cool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans for a much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they get too big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for two fancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong with your tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you have in your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tap water parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for 24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answer also.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2 additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating for ick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can I do now to help?Thanks________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:05:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:48:14 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:09:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:26:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30480	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

From what I'm reading you can safely use just plain salt, and you may be able to safely use iodized plain salt - but I still prefer to use aquarium salt. I add two teaspoons per 2 and a half gallons of water, and at that level a big carton of aquarium salt will last you quite awhile. The human salt lives on the bathroom sink as well, and it doesn't stay uncaked long enough to get used up! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Huss" <cheese911@...> To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:28 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I had read somewhere to just use plain salt but I was at the store and it was only 1.99 for 16 oz. So with the two different types of fish I'm kinda stuck. Would it be better to leave them in the same tank or put my two mollies and shark in the 2.5 gallon? those are my only options right now. I know it sounds really cruel but fish stores around here dont take fish back and I cannot get a bigger tank. It was hard enough to talk my hubby into getting this one! :-I I do have water sitting I have to wait and test it tomorrow for the first 24 hours. The stress coat plus also removes ammonia so I think thats why it went down so far. Thats why I used it. I know I'm doing to much too fast but I dont know what is most important to treat first. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:17:48 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! You need to do a tap water baseline test. Fill up a gallon bucket with tapwater. Test it. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait another 24 hoursand test it again. We need to find out if the pH of your tap is going upfrom 7.5 to 9.0 or if something in your tank is raising it. Usually, the pHout of the tap will go down after the water is exposed to air but if yourwater source is a well, then they sometimes have higher levels of CO2 in thewater which will outgas after the water is exposed to air. CO2 will lowerthe pH so that could be why your pH is lower right out the tap and thenrises once the water is exposed to air. The only way to know is to do thetap water baseline tests.If you are reading all posts made to the group, you'll see I just replied toanother member about "Aquarium Salt". There is no need to buy that again.It's the same as the salt in the Morton Salt or non-brand name salt that youbuy at the store for 35 cents a pound. Further, when "salting" a tank, youshould not add the full dose at once but rather no more than 1/3rd at atime, every 12 hours, until you reach the full dose over the course of 24hours. Adding a full dose at once can cause osmotic shock to the fish andalso kill off your nitrifying bacteria... although in your case, your tankisn't cycled yet so you don't have to worry about that issue.The Stress Coat probably wasn't needed and I don't add all of themstress-this or slime-that type products to my tanks. It's just addingunnecessary chemicals into a closed environment. This is why I recommendedgetting Prime as it doesn't have any of the unneeded chemicals in it.I have used Melafix and it has worked for me in the past but you have toworry that you are doing too much, too fast, which can also cause problems.None of these products answers your bigger problems of having incompatiblefish (cool water and tropicals) and not having a large enough tank. All themedicines or water treatments in the world will not fix those problems.Please, for you and your fish sake... and any other members reading this...ask us here first what you should buy/use instead of getting conned out ofyour money at the pet stores. Most of the time, it was their bad advicethat got you into trouble in the first place. I'll try to remember when telling someone to use a "pinch of salt to protectagainst nitrite poisoning"... that I mean plain old table salt.... plain oriodized when only using a pinch.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:29 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Okay so I made a trip to the pet store today. They sent me home with someAquarium salt (I put in 6tbl spoons) some stress coat + for the ammonia andto help with the stress. I put in 6 tsp. They also gave me some melafix tohelp my shark with pop eye so i put in 3 tsp of it. I also picked up somedrift wood to help with the hardness. I havent put that in yet. These are mytap water results: PH= 7.5 NO2-=<.3mg Ammonia=0ml GH=14 and here are my newtank conditions (this mornings): ph= 9(9) no2-= .8(1.6) ammonia = 0(1.5)GH=12 (14) which is alot better.As you can see my tap water is extremely hard. I had orignally filled mytank with my tap water. thought thats why I was having so many problems.Apparently its just the hardness. what would be messing with my ph?So this is what I am going to continue doing: Continue treating the pop eyewith melafix for the next 6 days, contiune with the Quick Cure for Ich for 1more day unless needed and add the drift wood. Any other suggestions?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks_____________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:17:48 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30481	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Sarah, I'm not sure what they meant by salting your tank, but I don't believe you do get the salt out when you're done salting it. If they mean to add up to a teaspoon per gallon (you could start with less) to help avoid nitrite poisoning and help avoid the spread and growth of disease, you don't remove the salt. Though if you stopped adding it than successive water changes will gradually "remove " it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Huss" <cheese911@...> To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:29 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! how do i get the salt out after i'm done salting it? I've read it doesnt evaperate, does the carbon get it out? sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:26:28 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! You may want to remove the live plants since you have dosed the tank withsalt. Many FW plants do not do well with salt treatments. Just put them ina bucket of fresh water with a drop of dechlor and they should be fine untilyou are done with salting your tank. Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:03 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I also forgot to mention that I have some anacharis in there as well butonly 6 7in clipings. They are starting to die though so. i need to get themclipped off."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks________________________________avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > :Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008Tested on:9/24/2008 9:05:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):080924-0, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:48:14 PMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:09:08 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:26:28 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30482	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Bubbles...

Borneo Sucker is one of the common names given to the Hillstream Loach (Beaufortia kweichowensis). http://www.loaches.com/species-index/beaufortia-kweichowensis and http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-i n-the-fast-lane A bubble wand would NOT give you the fast moving water that these fish prefer. Powerheads would be better and are probably the least expensive option to increase water circulation in a tank. What size tank do you have? Do you have a canister filter system or other type? If a canister, you could put the returning water spray bar on one end of the tank spraying towards the other end of the tank at the surface and then the intake for the canister on the same end as the spray bar with the intake close to the bottom so the water would rush across the surface, hit the other end and then return across the bottom. You would probably want at least 5X and possibly up to 10X of water circulation so make sure the canister filter provides this kind of volume. This is a cool/cold water fish so you should not mix it with tropical fish. Cool/cold water (less than 74F) also holds O2 better than warm water which is another reason they need the cool/cold water conditions. While goldfish are also cool/cold water fish, fancy goldfish would not like the kind of water movement you are looking for and goldfish need LOTS of water volume since they get so BIG... but Zebra Danios, Buenos Aires Tetras and some of the other fish on this list http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm would be more suitable as tank mates. Check out the individual species for specific species compatibility. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josh4fish Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bubbles... Hey all, Just purchased a Borneo Sucker. I understand they like lots of running water and oxygen. Would a bubble wand work? What other relativley cheap ideas do you have? Thanks. Josh ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:12:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:30:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30483	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Well, that explains why I didn't know what they meant by salting your tank. The mail must be backwards in my mailbox, and Yahoo must be backwards as well, since this post is dated a day later than the query abaout how to unsalt the tank. I am wondering if you really have to add that much salt for nitrite poisoning. And also if you have to remove it - but then I've never added that much. I thought a tablespoon per gallon was for treating disease. Despite warnings on these lists that salt isn't good for tetras, which I've not been able to confirm elsewhere, I've been putting a teaspoon of salt per gallon of water routinely for months with no ill effects. Just healthy fish. They're buzzing around the tank as we speak. No more of that cottony stuff I saw at first, and no fish have died of disease since that first try last April. Well, not counting the guy with swim bladder disease - he finally succumbed. I did think it might be a good idea to be more exact than a "pinch". Not everyone adds a teaspoon of salt per gallon. I think I've seen a teaspoon per five gallons mentioned a little more often. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:29 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! While this subject has been approached several times in the past by myself, more recently as a result of some of the members getting themselves (and their fish) into trouble because of high ammonia and nitrites in their water column, especially when combined with higher pH's, this same subject has again surfaced. The recomendation for the use of table salt in preventing the onset of Brown Blood (when these nitrogen compounds (Read: Nitrite) adversely affect the red hemoglobin in your fishes' red blood cells) has been stated as using a pinch of salt in your aquarium water. Some hobbyists here may wonder what this "pinch" may consist of, or whether there is a more accurate measure of it to ensure the prevention of this condition. One may wonder too, just how turning the red corpuscles brown would affect their functioning. Simply put, the blood is no longer able to efficiently pick up fresh oxygen through the gill membranes. Once this condition is observed to have already affected the fish, it can be reversed but only through much work and time -- and you have still put the fish at risk of burning their gills in high concentrations of ammonia. To clear up the condition, one must progressively add salt (after first removing the toxic nitrogenous compounds via PWC's), in three smaller increments 12 hours apart, until you attain at least a 0.3% solution, or 1 Tablespoon (approx 2.4 teaspoons) of salt per gallon in your aquarium. This strength of solution must be maintained until its seen that the condition has cleared, still while doing regular PWC's, and can take up to 14 days or so to clear up completely. In the meantime, the fish are naturally under stress and will be seen to be listless and refusing to eat (and still may die in the interum). If such toxic conditions are suspected as being the state of your tank, or are suspected as possibly becoming the state of your tank, due to factors immediately beyond your control, its much easier (and so much less stressful on the fish) to have a token amount of salt already in your water column which will prevent this condition from occurring in the first place -- salt inhibits the uptake of nitrite and ammonia by fish. This token amount to be used as a prophylactic is in the amount of solution of no more than 0.03% (or 0.24 teaspoons per gallon) of salt -- or 1/4 tsp per gallon, although the "pinch" of 1/8 tsp of salt per gallon is sufficient. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30484	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

I tried one of these. It didn't work, and I heard from someone else whose card didn't work either. You're talking about those color cards, right? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:26 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] In tank ammonia meeters I'm not talking about digital or electronic monitoring devices. I was at the local pet store today and saw meters that test separately for different water chemistry or ph. I didn't read the package to see how it worked, but I know you suction cup it from inside the tank, and you get a 24/7 reading of what ever chemistry it is made for. I saw them for $6 and they last 6 weeks. That sounds cheaper and and way more convenient than using test kits all the time. I'm hopping to start a q tank and a second tank, and I like to work smarter, not harder. Does anyone here have experience with them? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30485	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Six 7" stalks of anacharis would not use up enough CO2 to create that dramatic of a pH change. Either the water out of the tap has a high CO2 level, like some well water sources, so it comes out the tap at 7.5 and then as the CO2 outgases, the pH rises to 9.0, or something in the tank is raising the pH once the water is added to the tank. Could be a limestone substrate or something else. Ammonia has a higher pH of 11 but it would take an awful lot of ammonia... a 50/50 solution of ammonia and 7.0 water to make a 9.0 pH so I know it's not the slight (but dangerous to fish) ammonia levels in the tank that are affecting the pH very much. Now, with fishless cycling where we raise the ammonia to 4-5ppm, there will be some pH bounce but still not that much of a change. The tank is too new to have very much decaying detritus and other ecological and bacterial action to be putting out very much CO2 either. It takes a while (several weeks) for detritus (fish poop, uneaten food, etc.) to decay to the point where it's putting out a lot of carbonic acid and using up the KH in the water to where it starts to affect the pH to that degree. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Lenny, could the live plants be raising hte ph in her tank above the ph of the tap water? They remove nitrogen wastes and phosphates from the water. They also use carbon dioxide, which acidifies the water. The diatom bloom that lowered the levels of both nitrates and phosphates in my tank to 0, did a wonder at raising the ph in my tank while it was at it. I'm not sure if it's the nitrogen waste products themselves or the process of converting them that creates acid in the tank, and I believe that phosphates definitely acidify the tank. The phosphate level is high in my tap water. This is part of why it was so remarkable when it was suddenly 0. The nitrate level is 0 too, after a week and a half of neglecting the tank, and there's brown stuff covering everything that turn out ot be diatoms under the microscope? I thought, OK, I think we know where it went. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! You may want to remove the live plants since you have dosed the tank with salt. Many FW plants do not do well with salt treatments. Just put them in a bucket of fresh water with a drop of dechlor and they should be fine until you are done with salting your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:03 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I also forgot to mention that I have some anacharis in there as well but only 6 7in clipings. They are starting to die though so. i need to get them clipped off. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia) are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higher the pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELY get a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch of salt to the tank which will help protect the fish from nitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish or goldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish being cool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans for a much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they get too big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for two fancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong with your tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you have in your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tap water parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for 24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answer also.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now. I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are my stats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2 additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating for ick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30% water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. I will get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treat the ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can I do now to help?Thanks________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:05:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-0, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:48:14 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:09:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:26:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:22:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:44:03 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30486	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

I'll reiterate once again that "Aquarium Salt" is exactly the same thing as plain salt, kosher salt, pickling salt, etc.... Sodium Chloride (NaCl). There is no difference other than the exorbitant price that pet stores charge for "Aquarium Salt". Dora... why are you adding so much salt to your tank all the time? Unless you have livebearers, that level it too high for everyday use for freshwater fish. One teaspoon per 500G is enough to provide osmoregulatory system assistance and improve gill function from the chloride in salt. Most water sources have that very low level of salt in it already. Plus, the tap water dechlors use salts to break down the chlorine into other salts also, so for regular FW fish, the addition of salt to a tank is not really needed... well maybe for very soft water sources. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! From what I'm reading you can safely use just plain salt, and you may be able to safely use iodized plain salt - but I still prefer to use aquarium salt. I add two teaspoons per 2 and a half gallons of water, and at that level a big carton of aquarium salt will last you quite awhile. The human salt lives on the bathroom sink as well, and it doesn't stay uncaked long enough to get used up! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Huss" <cheese911@... <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.com> > To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:28 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I had read somewhere to just use plain salt but I was at the store and it was only 1.99 for 16 oz. So with the two different types of fish I'm kinda stuck. Would it be better to leave them in the same tank or put my two mollies and shark in the 2.5 gallon? those are my only options right now. I know it sounds really cruel but fish stores around here dont take fish back and I cannot get a bigger tank. It was hard enough to talk my hubby into getting this one! :-I I do have water sitting I have to wait and test it tomorrow for the first 24 hours. The stress coat plus also removes ammonia so I think thats why it went down so far. Thats why I used it. I know I'm doing to much too fast but I dont know what is most important to treat first. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:17:48 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! You need to do a tap water baseline test. Fill up a gallon bucket with tapwater. Test it. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait another 24 hoursand test it again. We need to find out if the pH of your tap is going upfrom 7.5 to 9.0 or if something in your tank is raising it. Usually, the pHout of the tap will go down after the water is exposed to air but if yourwater source is a well, then they sometimes have higher levels of CO2 in thewater which will outgas after the water is exposed to air. CO2 will lowerthe pH so that could be why your pH is lower right out the tap and thenrises once the water is exposed to air. The only way to know is to do thetap water baseline tests.If you are reading all posts made to the group, you'll see I just replied toanother member about "Aquarium Salt". There is no need to buy that again.It's the same as the salt in the Morton Salt or non-brand name salt that youbuy at the store for 35 cents a pound. Further, when "salting" a tank, youshould not add the full dose at once but rather no more than 1/3rd at atime, every 12 hours, until you reach the full dose over the course of 24hours. Adding a full dose at once can cause osmotic shock to the fish andalso kill off your nitrifying bacteria... although in your case, your tankisn't cycled yet so you don't have to worry about that issue.The Stress Coat probably wasn't needed and I don't add all of themstress-this or slime-that type products to my tanks. It's just addingunnecessary chemicals into a closed environment. This is why I recommendedgetting Prime as it doesn't have any of the unneeded chemicals in it.I have used Melafix and it has worked for me in the past but you have toworry that you are doing too much, too fast, which can also cause problems.None of these products answers your bigger problems of having incompatiblefish (cool water and tropicals) and not having a large enough tank. All themedicines or water treatments in the world will not fix those problems.Please, for you and your fish sake... and any other members reading this...ask us here first what you should buy/use instead of getting conned out ofyour money at the pet stores. Most of the time, it was their bad advicethat got you into trouble in the first place. I'll try to remember when telling someone to use a "pinch of salt to protectagainst nitrite poisoning"... that I mean plain old table salt.... plain oriodized when only using a pinch.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:29 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Okay so I made a trip to the pet store today. They sent me home with someAquarium salt (I put in 6tbl spoons) some stress coat + for the ammonia andto help with the stress. I put in 6 tsp. They also gave me some melafix tohelp my shark with pop eye so i put in 3 tsp of it. I also picked up somedrift wood to help with the hardness. I havent put that in yet. These are mytap water results: PH= 7.5 NO2-=<.3mg Ammonia=0ml GH=14 and here are my newtank conditions (this mornings): ph= 9(9) no2-= .8(1.6) ammonia = 0(1.5)GH=12 (14) which is alot better.As you can see my tap water is extremely hard. I had orignally filled mytank with my tap water. thought thats why I was having so many problems.Apparently its just the hardness. what would be messing with my ph?So this is what I am going to continue doing: Continue treating the pop eyewith melafix for the next 6 days, contiune with the Quick Cure for Ich for 1more day unless needed and add the drift wood. Any other suggestions?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks_____________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:17:48 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:32:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:54:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30487	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fasting

There are medical benefits to fasting. I know that a lower than the average 2000 calories diet actually keeps the organs younger in humans, and I believe its the same in most other animals in the animal kingdom as well. It is believed to help rid the body of illness and detox the organs. Introducing new fish to a tank can be stressful to the fish, and fish who are ill are under a lot of stress. Aside from keeping the water quality up on new tanks, maybe it is good for them and will help them get through the stress easier? I know many land loving creatures are built to fast because of periods of a scarce food supply like in winter. On the other hand, I don't know if tropical fish ever experience a shortage of the food chain in their natural habitats.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30488	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

Actually, this is what I'm referring to

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30489	From: josh4fish	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Bubbles...

Thanks for the reply. Its about 70 litres. My tank is at about 24/25C (I think thats around 74F). I already have 6 Danios and 2 dalmation mollies plus a few algae shrimp. Are mollies ok in fast currents? Im honestly not sure what sort of filter I have.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Borneo Sucker is one of the common names given to the Hillstream Loach > (Beaufortia kweichowensis). > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/beaufortia-kweichowensis and > http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-i > n-the-fast-lane > > A bubble wand would NOT give you the fast moving water that these fish > prefer. Powerheads would be better and are probably the least expensive > option to increase water circulation in a tank. > > What size tank do you have? Do you have a canister filter system or other > type? If a canister, you could put the returning water spray bar on one end > of the tank spraying towards the other end of the tank at the surface and > then the intake for the canister on the same end as the spray bar with the > intake close to the bottom so the water would rush across the surface, hit > the other end and then return across the bottom. You would probably want at > least 5X and possibly up to 10X of water circulation so make sure the > canister filter provides this kind of volume. > > This is a cool/cold water fish so you should not mix it with tropical fish. > Cool/cold water (less than 74F) also holds O2 better than warm water which > is another reason they need the cool/cold water conditions. While goldfish > are also cool/cold water fish, fancy goldfish would not like the kind of > water movement you are looking for and goldfish need LOTS of water volume > since they get so BIG... but Zebra Danios, Buenos Aires Tetras and some of > the other fish on this list > http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm would be more > suitable as tank mates. Check out the individual species for specific > species compatibility. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of josh4fish > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bubbles... > > Hey all, > > Just purchased a Borneo Sucker. > > I understand they like lots of running water and oxygen. > > Would a bubble wand work? What other relativley cheap ideas do you have? > > Thanks. > > Josh > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 > Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:12:49 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 > Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:30:38 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30490	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

this is what I was referring to [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30491	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

I'm really thinking convenience for quarantine tanks because I don't see a point in cycling and testing water every day for a fish (or few) that won't be in that tank permanently , or for a tank I won't use that much. Aside from keeping fish, I'm using my tanks to grow plants as well. Since the plants keep everything in check, I will only have to worry about ammonia for a short period of time. The less maintenance I have to do the better. I'm looking for tools that will help me work smarter, and have more time to focus on other things aswell.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30492	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fasting

All I know is that when I'm hungry and can't find food... I get pretty darned stressed! Give me a convenient fast food drive-thru when I'm hungry and then I'm happy! ;-) I'll leave the fasting for those that believe in the ying-yang and zen-type stuff. I know all of my fish sure seem to be a heck of lot happier when it's feeding time than almost any other time of the day. While land loving creatures (and all life forms) can tolerate (not the same as intentionally going without) periods of scarce food supply, most of them spend all of their time during these periods, foraging for any kind of food they can find, while others simply go into hibernation. Many others simply die of starvation. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fasting There are medical benefits to fasting. I know that a lower than the average 2000 calories diet actually keeps the organs younger in humans, and I believe its the same in most other animals in the animal kingdom as well. It is believed to help rid the body of illness and detox the organs. Introducing new fish to a tank can be stressful to the fish, and fish who are ill are under a lot of stress. Aside from keeping the water quality up on new tanks, maybe it is good for them and will help them get through the stress easier? I know many land loving creatures are built to fast because of periods of a scarce food supply like in winter. On the other hand, I don't know if tropical fish ever experience a shortage of the food chain in their natural habitats. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 11:12:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30493	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

Your link did not show up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters Actually, this is what I'm referring to Messages in this topic _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 11:13:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30494	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Bubbles...

24C = 75.2F 25C = 77F You might want to lower it to 23C = 73.4F if possible. This may happen anyhow as you increase the water flow as the increased surface agitation will increase evaporation rates which will lower the water temperature, at normal room temperatures. Keep the tank in the coolest room of your house. 70 liters = 18.5 gallons Mollies are livebearers and prefer tropical temps and get too big for your tank. You should probably rehome the mollies and stick to fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. Also, the sailfin is not designed for fast water environments. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Poecilia_velifera.html Your hillstream loach grows to around 3" but is a wide bodied fish so it's actual bioload is more than that of a torpedo shaped 3" fish. That, along with your school of danios probably puts you close to the recommended stocking level of your tank. You could possibly add a couple more zebra danios if you wanted but not much more than that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josh4fish Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bubbles... Thanks for the reply. Its about 70 litres. My tank is at about 24/25C (I think thats around 74F). I already have 6 Danios and 2 dalmation mollies plus a few algae shrimp. Are mollies ok in fast currents? Im honestly not sure what sort of filter I have.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Borneo Sucker is one of the common names given to the Hillstream Loach > (Beaufortia kweichowensis). > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/beaufortia-kweichowensis > <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/beaufortia-kweichowensis> and > http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-i <http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life- i> > n-the-fast-lane > > A bubble wand would NOT give you the fast moving water that these fish > prefer. Powerheads would be better and are probably the least > expensive option to increase water circulation in a tank. > > What size tank do you have? Do you have a canister filter system or other > type? If a canister, you could put the returning water spray bar on one end > of the tank spraying towards the other end of the tank at the surface and > then the intake for the canister on the same end as the spray bar with the > intake close to the bottom so the water would rush across the surface, hit > the other end and then return across the bottom. You would probably want at > least 5X and possibly up to 10X of water circulation so make sure the > canister filter provides this kind of volume. > > This is a cool/cold water fish so you should not mix it with tropical fish. > Cool/cold water (less than 74F) also holds O2 better than warm water which > is another reason they need the cool/cold water conditions. While goldfish > are also cool/cold water fish, fancy goldfish would not like the kind > of water movement you are looking for and goldfish need LOTS of water volume > since they get so BIG... but Zebra Danios, Buenos Aires Tetras and some of > the other fish on this list > http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm > <http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm> would be more > suitable as tank mates. Check out the individual species for specific > species compatibility. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of josh4fish > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bubbles... > > Hey all, > > Just purchased a Borneo Sucker. > > I understand they like lots of running water and oxygen. > > Would a bubble wand work? What other relativley cheap ideas do you have? > > Thanks. > > Josh > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 > 10:12:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 > 10:30:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:58:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 11:28:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30495	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

Just keep extra filter media in your filter system or keep a sponge filter or small HOB filter running in your main tank. Then whenever you need to set up a Q-tank or H-tank, simply move the sponge filter or small HOB to the new tank and then it's "instantly" cycled. I keep my small HOB in the box and have extra filter media in the reservoirs of my filters so if I need to set up an extra tank, I just remove some of the extra filter media and add it to the small HOB that I put on the extra tank... instantly cycled for a small bioload. Like I said before, once you get through the initial cycling process, your main concerns will be keeping the nitrate levels in check (up in your case, since you want to feed your aquaponics system). The SeaChem pH monitor would be of more use than the ammonia monitor as well, since your plants will be utilizing the GH and the KH levels of your tank a lot more than the typical aquarium so you would want to keep an constant eye on your pH and whenever it starts to go down, you would need to do a PWC and possibly regularly dose with baking soda and something like Kent's RO Right, Marine Salt, aquarium plant fertilizer, etc., to keep the trace elements, GH and KH up. Have you found any other specialized forums for folks that want to run their aquaponic systems using their fish tanks yet? Your best info might come from one of them since much of my advice is more speculative since I've never done what you are trying. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I'm really thinking convenience for quarantine tanks because I don't see a point in cycling and testing water every day for a fish (or few) that won't be in that tank permanently , or for a tank I won't use that much. Aside from keeping fish, I'm using my tanks to grow plants as well. Since the plants keep everything in check, I will only have to worry about ammonia for a short period of time. The less maintenance I have to do the better. I'm looking for tools that will help me work smarter, and have more time to focus on other things aswell. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 11:12:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 11:38:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30496	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fasting

I get weak and dizzy without something to eat. My furry pets would think I had disowned them if they had to fast.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/25/2008 11:13:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Fasting All I know is that when I'm hungry and can't find food... I get pretty darned stressed! Give me a convenient fast food drive-thru when I'm hungry and then I'm happy! ;-) I'll leave the fasting for those that believe in the ying-yang and zen-type stuff. I know all of my fish sure seem to be a heck of lot happier when it's feeding time than almost any other time of the day. While land loving creatures (and all life forms) can tolerate (not the same as intentionally going without) periods of scarce food supply, most of them spend all of their time during these periods, foraging for any kind of food they can find, while others simply go into hibernation. Many others simply die of starvation. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fasting There are medical benefits to fasting. I know that a lower than the average 2000 calories diet actually keeps the organs younger in humans, and I believe its the same in most other animals in the animal kingdom as well. It is believed to help rid the body of illness and detox the organs. Introducing new fish to a tank can be stressful to the fish, and fish who are ill are under a lot of stress. Aside from keeping the water quality up on new tanks, maybe it is good for them and will help them get through the stress easier? I know many land loving creatures are built to fast because of periods of a scarce food supply like in winter. On the other hand, I don't know if tropical fish ever experience a shortage of the food chain in their natural habitats. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 11:12:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30497	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: My Bubbles!

My guppies are very interesting creatures. I was watching them yesterday and watched on dart up and down the tank and then shot off through the foliage. 2 were chasing each other around and then decided to duck into the bubble curtain and were raising each other against the current. They weren't going anywhere. They were like runners on treadmills. Another guppy was attacking some of the surface bubbles to make them pop. What else can I add to my tank that will make the tank more animated? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30498	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753388 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > this is what I was referring to > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30499	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

That's the Mardel ammonia monitor. The SeaChem brand monitor lasts much longer. Hmmm... I don't see the SeaChem ammonia monitor on the PetsMart site any longer. The last one I bought, several years ago, was at my local PetsMart. Maybe Mardel got in bed with PetsMart to only carry theirs. DrsFosterSmith.com still carries them and they're much less expensive than the Mardel brand and last much, much longer. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4387 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4387&cmpid=03 cseyh&ref=3473&subref=AA&srccode=cii_1038957&cpncode=17-19599553-2> &cmpid=03cseyh&ref=3473&subref=AA&srccode=cii_1038957&cpncode=17-19599553-2 If the link breaks, which it will with Yahoo Groups, just go to http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com and search for Seachem ammonia alert. Here's a shorter link I found with their search but it may break also... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4387 Here's the Seachem pH alert http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=15444 Your local PetsMart may still sell them... maybe just not on the website any longer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753388 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753388> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > this is what I was referring to > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 11:39:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 11:49:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30500	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: My Bubbles!

Remind us what you already have in your tank, tank size, water parameters, etc. Were you talking about live things or something like the air pump operated alligator mouth or treasure chest that opens and closes? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Bubbles! My guppies are very interesting creatures. I was watching them yesterday and watched on dart up and down the tank and then shot off through the foliage. 2 were chasing each other around and then decided to duck into the bubble curtain and were raising each other against the current. They weren't going anywhere. They were like runners on treadmills. Another guppy was attacking some of the surface bubbles to make them pop. What else can I add to my tank that will make the tank more animated? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 11:43:19 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 11:53:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30501	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

I'm floating a nylon filled with pearlite to collect bacteria. I'm gonna borrow some of the gravel from my aquarium, I'm gonna reuse part of my bio bag to put right into the filter on the other tank, and I'm gonna float plants from the 20 gallon in the new tank. That is 3 sources of bacteria. I see your point on ph and minerals. My plants will tell me what they need though. If too little calcium, I'll add sea shells. Too little iron, I'll feed the fish beef heart or maybe frozen spinach. I'll figure it out as I go. Yes. I do belong to a forum for aquaponics. The one I belong to doesn't really discuss fish health or supplimentation. I'm here for that reason, plus since I have a tropical aquarium, its still fitting. It couldn't hurt to join one or 2 more though.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30502	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: My Bubbles!

I have a 20 gallon tall. When I took the water readings yesterday the amonia was somewhere between 0 and .5, nitrites shouldn't have changed yet, nitrates were still the same as my tap (.5) and ph around 7.8 and holding. The tap is a few tenths of a percent lower for ph. I either botched that, or that is accurate. Since my gourami died I added 5 sword tails to the tank. I have 2 neons, 2 gourami, around 10 very young feeder guppies , and 4 ghost shrimp now. I think I made a mistake with the sword tails for a 20 gallon tank I'm not concerned about my guppies at all. They are acting fine in my opinion. It just seems that a few are hyper.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30503	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Yet - Another Ammonia Query

Hi Jules27au, I saw one reply to your post which asked some follow-up questions but you haven't replied again. I have a lot more to add but I'll wait to see if you check back since I think this was your first post to our group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jules27au Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Yet - Another Ammonia Query Hi Everyone, I've just had an acid, ammonia spike & don't ask what's happened to the inhabitants... yes I've been a little bit slack with cleaning the tank, so I take full responsibility. I've had the problem before & I'm not sure I ever really got rid of it. Last time, I vacuumed 2/3's water daily, cleaned the filter, washed the tank out & felt like a gold prospector when I washed the gravel. Is part of the problem that I haven't changed the gravel completely or that I use one bucket & one bucket only for water changes - note the water is boiled & then cooled appropriately - contents of what comes out of the tank, goes on the plants which they love. Where does the ammonia live exactly, in the water, the fish, the gravel or the filter? My plan of attack is to empty the tank, wash the gravel & replace same - (should I replace the gravel totally?), then run the tank for a couple of weeks, checking the chemistry every week, then add a plant, run for a couple of weeks, again check the chemistry, then add a comet or something similar to build up the "chemistry" & then perhaps after christmas, populate my tank with a silver dollar. Yes, I had three 50 cents silver dollars in my 60 litre tank. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008 Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:29:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 12:32:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30504	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: My Bubbles!

You really should NOT have added more fish to your tank since it's not even fully cycled from your first round and you just had an illness issue. Even more so if you didn't quarantine the new fish first or wait long enough to see if any of your other fish were going to get sick. I remember asking about this before but do not recall seeing your answer. You need to double check your nitrate test results or maybe you're misreading the chart. NitrAtes, in FW, are measured in 5ppm increments with the first level being 0ppm, then 5ppm, then 10ppm on up. You have your nitrates listed as 0.5ppm which isn't accurate unless you are doing a saltwater nitrate test which probably does measure in smaller increments since SW fish are far less tolerable of nitrogenous compounds. You also need to test your nitrites daily since as the ammonia is eaten by their bacteria, it converts into nitrites and then the nitrites are eaten by their bacteria and converted to nitrates. You also need to be careful as you are overstocking your tank. A 20G tall tank footprint isn't much larger than a 10G tank so that limits the surface and bottom areas. Surface area is important for proper gas exchange. Of course, once you get your aquaponics system online, you could include the water volume that flows through all of the plumbing for it as part of your total water volume and the plants will add to the ecology as far as removing waste products but not for adding O2 unless you will keep aquatic submerged plants in the tank as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Bubbles! I have a 20 gallon tall. When I took the water readings yesterday the amonia was somewhere between 0 and .5, nitrites shouldn't have changed yet, nitrates were still the same as my tap (.5) and ph around 7.8 and holding. The tap is a few tenths of a percent lower for ph. I either botched that, or that is accurate. Since my gourami died I added 5 sword tails to the tank. I have 2 neons, 2 gourami, around 10 very young feeder guppies , and 4 ghost shrimp now. I think I made a mistake with the sword tails for a 20 gallon tank I'm not concerned about my guppies at all. They are acting fine in my opinion. It just seems that a few are hyper. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 12:47:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30505	From: CanAm	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

Oups, ouch,.... :) If you want feed your plants and not the algae, the best way to do it is with iron non soluble in water.....and non expose to the light, it's means under the gravel... the iron have to not be expose to the side glass of the tank too.... Laterite is a better choice for that. I even ban the florite as a top layer in my tank ( this tuff attack algae like nothing else) . I always bury it under other gravel, and eventually replace it with .. (Better not mention it ) in my future tank.. Jerry .......... Too little iron, I'll feed the fish beef heart or maybe frozen spinach. I'll figure it out as I go. ..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30506	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Lenny, Thank you for sending the excerpt from the nitrite/salt (chloride) protection abstract regarding our aquarium fishes. While its agreed that approximately 1.0 mg per Ltr. (1.0 ppm) of nitrite is toxic to fish, with some variation depending upon species (Cardinal Tetras will succumb at 1.1 ppm ), and irrelevant to temperature or pH, I see no reference here pertaining to the toxicity of ammonia which also needs to be taken into consideration at this time. An aquarium, for instance being maintained at 82 o F with a pH of 7.0, may only have half the lethal amount of nitrite (lets say 0.5 ppm), yet have an ammonia/ammonium content of 0.70 ppm of this nitrogenous waste; this would still be quite safe for its inhabitants. However, still with no more than 0.5 ppm of nitrite, if this same aquarium were to experience a rise in pH to 8.5, even while the temperature may drop to 77 o, the amounts of un-ionized ammonia (NH3) would increase dramatically to 15.3 ppm. If the temperature remained the same (at 82 o), the amount of NH3 being converted from NH4+ would nearly double. It is for this reason that the somewhat increased quantity of salt becomes necessary -- to prevent osmoregulatory and kidney dysfunction in these fish which would otherwise occur if only a token ("pinch") amount of salt were used to counteract the effects of any high nitrite levels, and being the result of the adverse effects of ammonia.. As I know you're well aware, the higher the temperature -- and especially the higher the pH -- the more toxic the same amount of ammonia/ammonium becomes, so we not only need to address the concerns of the oxidation of hemoglobin to methemoglobin from excess nitrite rendering this blood element unable to bind oxygen, but we need to consider the additional toxic effects of ammonia compounding with any increases in pH and temperature. Therefore, the recommendation for those salt levels to cover both bases. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30507	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

Algae is a concern of mine, but I have chemicals to kill algae. I'm not gonna eat what I grow, so I'm not worried about poisoning myself. I also figure that the plants will shade the tank eventually, but it probably would be a good idea to light proof it. We'll see. I'm not following you on the rest though. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> wrote: > > Oups, ouch,.... :) If you want feed your plants and not the algae, the > best way to do it is with iron non soluble in water.....and non expose to > the light, it's means under the gravel... the iron have to not be > expose to the side glass of the tank too.... > > > > Laterite is a better choice for that. I even ban the florite as a top > layer in my tank ( this tuff attack algae like nothing else) . I always > bury it under other gravel, and eventually replace it with .. (Better not > mention it ) in my future tank.. > > > > Jerry > > .......... Too little > iron, I'll feed the fish beef heart or maybe frozen spinach. I'll > figure it out as I go. > > .. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30508	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: My Bubbles!

No, I do not have a quarintine tank yet. Normally I would agree, but all the fish came from the same store, and the store that I got the fish from circulates the same water through all the tanks the filtration is hooked up to, and no new fish have arrived since so its all the same in the end. I'm also very curious about something, so I'm playing mad scientist here.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30509	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

so here are my new readings tap water ph 7 (7.5) no2- <.3 (<.3) Ammonia o (o) gh 17 (14) Why in the world would this happen? Tank water today ph 9 (9) no2- 1.6 (.8) ammonia0 (0) gh 13 (12) I added the drift wood last night and took all the live plants out as well. I'm thinking i'm gonna loose a goldfish soon. he was acting funny last night and I thought i lost him but a molly chased him outta hiding I think its only a matter of time though, probably all of them if I cant give this figured out. I bought some bottled water for a water change but I didnt know if i should do it or wait. I've got ick med , stress coat and melafix in there. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:44:04 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Six 7" stalks of anacharis would not use up enough CO2 to create thatdramatic of a pH change. Either the water out of the tap has a high CO2level, like some well water sources, so it comes out the tap at 7.5 and thenas the CO2 outgases, the pH rises to 9.0, or something in the tank israising the pH once the water is added to the tank. Could be a limestonesubstrate or something else. Ammonia has a higher pH of 11 but it would take an awful lot of ammonia... a50/50 solution of ammonia and 7.0 water to make a 9.0 pH so I know it's notthe slight (but dangerous to fish) ammonia levels in the tank that areaffecting the pH very much. Now, with fishless cycling where we raise theammonia to 4-5ppm, there will be some pH bounce but still not that much of achange. The tank is too new to have very much decaying detritus and other ecologicaland bacterial action to be putting out very much CO2 either. It takes awhile (several weeks) for detritus (fish poop, uneaten food, etc.) to decayto the point where it's putting out a lot of carbonic acid and using up theKH in the water to where it starts to affect the pH to that degree.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Dora SmithSent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:22 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Lenny, could the live plants be raising hte ph in her tank above the ph ofthe tap water? They remove nitrogen wastes and phosphates from the water.They also use carbon dioxide, which acidifies the water.The diatom bloom that lowered the levels of both nitrates and phosphates inmy tank to 0, did a wonder at raising the ph in my tank while it was at it.I'm not sure if it's the nitrogen waste products themselves or the processof converting them that creates acid in the tank, and I believe thatphosphates definitely acidify the tank.The phosphate level is high in my tap water. This is part of why it was soremarkable when it was suddenly 0. The nitrate level is 0 too, after a weekand a half of neglecting the tank, and there's brown stuff coveringeverything that turn out ot be diatoms under the microscope? I thought, OK,I think we know where it went.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>----- Original Message -----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:26 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!You may want to remove the live plants since you have dosed the tank withsalt. Many FW plants do not do well with salt treatments. Just put them in abucket of fresh water with a drop of dechlor and they should be fine untilyou are done with salting your tank.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:03 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I also forgot to mention that I have some anacharis in there as well butonly 6 7in clipings. They are starting to die though so. i need to get themclipped off."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks________________________________avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > >:Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080923-0, 09/23/2008Tested on:9/24/2008 9:05:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database(VPS):080924-0, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 2:48:14 PMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! 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Groups Links________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:22:17 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:44:03 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

I'm not really familiar with salt helping with ammonia poisoning. It seems the salt could help raise the pH (depending on other water parameters) which isn't wanted when ammonia is present. The only in depth reading that I've done is about salt preventing nitrite poisoning. I'm familiar with how pH and temperature affect ammonia toxicity and frequently direct people to a website with charts that show the changes in ammonia toxicity at the various ammonia/ph/temp levels. I'll trust your experience on the salt level being helpful for ammonia poisoning. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Lenny, Thank you for sending the excerpt from the nitrite/salt (chloride) protection abstract regarding our aquarium fishes. While its agreed that approximately 1.0 mg per Ltr. (1.0 ppm) of nitrite is toxic to fish, with some variation depending upon species (Cardinal Tetras will succumb at 1.1 ppm ), and irrelevant to temperature or pH, I see no reference here pertaining to the toxicity of ammonia which also needs to be taken into consideration at this time. An aquarium, for instance being maintained at 82 o F with a pH of 7.0, may only have half the lethal amount of nitrite (lets say 0.5 ppm), yet have an ammonia/ammonium content of 0.70 ppm of this nitrogenous waste; this would still be quite safe for its inhabitants. However, still with no more than 0.5 ppm of nitrite, if this same aquarium were to experience a rise in pH to 8.5, even while the temperature may drop to 77 o, the amounts of un-ionized ammonia (NH3) would increase dramatically to 15.3 ppm. If the temperature remained the same (at 82 o), the amount of NH3 being converted from NH4+ would nearly double. It is for this reason that the somewhat increased quantity of salt becomes necessary -- to prevent osmoregulatory and kidney dysfunction in these fish which would otherwise occur if only a token ("pinch") amount of salt were used to counteract the effects of any high nitrite levels, and being the result of the adverse effects of ammonia.. As I know you're well aware, the higher the temperature -- and especially the higher the pH -- the more toxic the same amount of ammonia/ammonium becomes, so we not only need to address the concerns of the oxidation of hemoglobin to methemoglobin from excess nitrite rendering this blood element unable to bind oxygen, but we need to consider the additional toxic effects of ammonia compounding with any increases in pH and temperature. Therefore, the recommendation for those salt levels to cover both bases. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 1:35:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 2:10:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30511	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Dora, the reason my ammonia level dropped so much, I'm assuiming is because i put stress coat + in there which is supposed to remove the ammonia. my no2- went back up today though. I find it hard to read the test results. the colors all seem so close with certain tests. sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: tiggernut24@...: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:15:44 -0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Oh, one other thing. Bubble air through the water in the bucket.The ph in my water that I'm preparing to put in the tank doesn't come down if I jsut leave it sit; only if I bubble air through it. In your actual aquarium you probably bubble air through it, and if you don't it's because the filter helps mix air into the water.i am wondering if that is really why your ph would be going UP dramatically, particularly since the high ph is consistent with the high water hardness and alkalinity.I am noticing that your numbers often don't make alot of sense. For example, ammonia sky high one day and 0 the next? Not possible unless you did a 100% water change. And got all the fish waste out of the tank.Try doing each test twice. ;)If you're using the API tests, make sure you are shaking the bottles thoroughly, especially with the tests that tell you for example to shake the bottle for 30 seconds or a minute, that you're doing that right before you add drops to the test tube and not a minute or two sooner and then you set down teh bottles until you're ready for them, that your test tubes are clean - and even rinsed in what you're going to test in them, and that you hold the bottles vertically upside down over the test tube and let the drops form slowly and all the way before you let them drop one at a time into the test tube.I've seen these things make a big difference, for example, in the results of my high ph test - and for that you're barely supposed to even have to shake the bottle!Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@...----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...>To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:17 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!You need to do a tap water baseline test. Fill up a gallon bucket with tapwater. Test it. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait another 24 hoursand test it again. We need to find out if the pH of your tap is going upfrom 7.5 to 9.0 or if something in your tank is raising it. Usually, the pHout of the tap will go down after the water is exposed to air but if yourwater source is a well, then they sometimes have higher levels of CO2 in thewater which will outgas after the water is exposed to air. CO2 will lowerthe pH so that could be why your pH is lower right out the tap and thenrises once the water is exposed to air. The only way to know is to do thetap water baseline tests.If you are reading all posts made to the group, you'll see I just replied toanother member about "Aquarium Salt". There is no need to buy that again.It's the same as the salt in the Morton Salt or non-brand name salt that youbuy at the store for 35 cents a pound. Further, when "salting" a tank, youshould not add the full dose at once but rather no more than 1/3rd at atime, every 12 hours, until you reach the full dose over the course of 24hours. Adding a full dose at once can cause osmotic shock to the fish andalso kill off your nitrifying bacteria... although in your case, your tankisn't cycled yet so you don't have to worry about that issue.The Stress Coat probably wasn't needed and I don't add all of themstress-this or slime-that type products to my tanks. It's just addingunnecessary chemicals into a closed environment. This is why I recommendedgetting Prime as it doesn't have any of the unneeded chemicals in it.I have used Melafix and it has worked for me in the past but you have toworry that you are doing too much, too fast, which can also cause problems.None of these products answers your bigger problems of having incompatiblefish (cool water and tropicals) and not having a large enough tank. All themedicines or water treatments in the world will not fix those problems.Please, for you and your fish sake... and any other members reading this...ask us here first what you should buy/use instead of getting conned out ofyour money at the pet stores. Most of the time, it was their bad advicethat got you into trouble in the first place.I'll try to remember when telling someone to use a "pinch of salt to protectagainst nitrite poisoning"... that I mean plain old table salt.... plain oriodized when only using a pinch.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:29 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Okay so I made a trip to the pet store today. They sent me home with someAquarium salt (I put in 6tbl spoons) some stress coat + for the ammonia andto help with the stress. I put in 6 tsp. They also gave me some melafix tohelp my shark with pop eye so i put in 3 tsp of it. I also picked up somedrift wood to help with the hardness. I havent put that in yet. These are mytap water results: PH= 7.5 NO2-=<.3mg Ammonia=0ml GH=14 and here are my newtank conditions (this mornings): ph= 9(9) no2-= .8(1.6) ammonia = 0(1.5)GH=12 (14) which is alot better.As you can see my tap water is extremely hard. I had orignally filled mytank with my tap water. thought thats why I was having so many problems.Apparently its just the hardness. what would be messing with my ph?So this is what I am going to continue doing: Continue treating the pop eyewith melafix for the next 6 days, contiune with the Quick Cure for Ich for 1more day unless needed and add the drift wood. Any other suggestions?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks_____________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:17:48 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.------------------------------------Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º>PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-<º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30512	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank

Hi Lenny, How do you allow for the amount of water in a tank when there are rock Formations and decorations? For example. A 100 gal tank with numerous large driftwood and rocks. The tank needs to be medicated/treated and you are not sure of the amount to add? Just a thought for everyone to ponder !!!!!!!!! Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/25/2008 8:30:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Bubbles... Borneo Sucker is one of the common names given to the Hillstream Loach (Beaufortia kweichowensis). http://www.loaches.com/species-index/beaufortia-kweichowensis and http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-i n-the-fast-lane A bubble wand would NOT give you the fast moving water that these fish prefer. Powerheads would be better and are probably the least expensive option to increase water circulation in a tank. What size tank do you have? Do you have a canister filter system or other type? If a canister, you could put the returning water spray bar on one end of the tank spraying towards the other end of the tank at the surface and then the intake for the canister on the same end as the spray bar with the intake close to the bottom so the water would rush across the surface, hit the other end and then return across the bottom. You would probably want at least 5X and possibly up to 10X of water circulation so make sure the canister filter provides this kind of volume. This is a cool/cold water fish so you should not mix it with tropical fish. Cool/cold water (less than 74F) also holds O2 better than warm water which is another reason they need the cool/cold water conditions. While goldfish are also cool/cold water fish, fancy goldfish would not like the kind of water movement you are looking for and goldfish need LOTS of water volume since they get so BIG... but Zebra Danios, Buenos Aires Tetras and some of the other fish on this list http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm would be more suitable as tank mates. Check out the individual species for specific species compatibility. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josh4fish Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bubbles... Hey all, Just purchased a Borneo Sucker. I understand they like lots of running water and oxygen. Would a bubble wand work? What other relativley cheap ideas do you have? Thanks. Josh ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:12:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:30:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30513	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

DO NOT use chemicals to treat algae. They will only make things worse most of the time. Algae grows for various reasons so you need to remove/control the reasons (nitrates, phosphates, too much light, other nutrients, etc.) to limit algae growth. Killing it would only compound your water quality problems because you would still have the excess compounds in the water and then you would have algae killing chemicals and dead decaying algae making things much, much worse for your fish. I've seen countless posts where people lost all of their fish after using algae killing chemicals because they listened to some clerk at the pet store instead of checking with real fish keepers first. Algae is God's way of keeping your fish alive when there are water quality problems. The algae helps to suck up waste compounds, excess nutrients and CO2 and puts out O2 during photosynthesis. Once you figure out what the water quality issues are and correct them, then you can scrape off the algae from the front glass, wait a week or so, then the side glasses and lastly the back glass as you see that you've corrected the water quality issues. I leave algae growing on my back glass to help keep the tank more natural looking and it helps keep my water quality in better shape. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters Algae is a concern of mine, but I have chemicals to kill algae. I'm not gonna eat what I grow, so I'm not worried about poisoning myself. I also figure that the plants will shade the tank eventually, but it probably would be a good idea to light proof it. We'll see. I'm not following you on the rest though. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> wrote: > > Oups, ouch,.... :) If you want feed your plants and not the algae, the > best way to do it is with iron non soluble in water.....and non expose to > the light, it's means under the gravel... the iron have to not be > expose to the side glass of the tank too.... > > > > Laterite is a better choice for that. I even ban the florite as a top > layer in my tank ( this tuff attack algae like nothing else) . I always > bury it under other gravel, and eventually replace it with .. (Better not > mention it ) in my future tank.. > > > > Jerry > > .......... Too little > iron, I'll feed the fish beef heart or maybe frozen spinach. I'll > figure it out as I go. > > .. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 2:06:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 2:27:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30514	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: My Bubbles!

Well.. playing "mad scientist" with your fish isn't a cool thing to do and it's probably best kept to yourself. Unless you are doing an experiment that might help others and you are using controlled conditions. In that case, it's not "mad" science. Intentionally exposing your fish to overstocking situations, un-quarantined fish, etc., etc., isn't a new experiment that might help the fish or other hobbyists.. it's been done countless times by other inexperienced fish keepers almost always with very negative results that may not be evident for months or years later when the fish get sick and/or die an early death due to the stunting that took place during their fry/juvi periods. Even if the fish came from the same store and water, whenever you buy fish, they have to be caught, bagged, transported, then acclimated to your water, etc. All of these things are stressful to the new fish and could trigger a weakened immune system response and the fish then comes down with Ick or some bacterial issue and could then make all of your other fish sick. Further, one or more of the fish at the store could have suffered from a disease issue since your last purchase, contaminating all of the other fish at that store and then you would be introducing that pathogen to your main tank. It seems you are going to do whatever you want regardless of what experienced fish keepers try to tell you so you'll not be getting many replies from me any longer unless I have to correct something you say to help keep others from making the same mistakes that you are making. Good luck. You and your fish will need it! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Bubbles! No, I do not have a quarintine tank yet. Normally I would agree, but all the fish came from the same store, and the store that I got the fish from circulates the same water through all the tanks the filtration is hooked up to, and no new fish have arrived since so its all the same in the end. I'm also very curious about something, so I'm playing mad scientist here. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 2:06:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 2:37:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30515	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank

Well.. if you set up the rocks first and then added the water, you could have kept track by measuring how much water you added. If you didn't do that, then if you weighed your rocks first, you could get an idea of their total mass/displacement and calculate the water volume that way. Other than that, you'd just have to guess. Most medications have a degree of tolerance built into them since the manufacturers know many people might be treating their main display tank rather than a bare bones H or Q tank where things are more controlled. As far as gravel at the bottom, if you have 1" of gravel and your tank is 15" tall, then the gravel is displacing 1/15th of the water volume. On a 15G tank, that would be 1G. A 30G tank would be 2G. A 60G tank would be 4G, etc. If you have a cichlid tank or other tank with lots of rocks and formations taking up a lot of the water volume, I guess it would take removing the built up rocks and seeing how much the water volume drops down and then calculating things out. For the average tropical fish community tank, a 10% water volume loss is probably a good guess. Cichlid tanks with big rock formations probably lose a lot more water volume but each tank is different. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank Hi Lenny, How do you allow for the amount of water in a tank when there are rock Formations and decorations? For example. A 100 gal tank with numerous large driftwood and rocks. The tank needs to be medicated/treated and you are not sure of the amount to add? Just a thought for everyone to ponder !!!!!!!!! Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/25/2008 8:30:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Bubbles... Borneo Sucker is one of the common names given to the Hillstream Loach (Beaufortia kweichowensis). http://www.loaches.com/species-index/beaufortia-kweichowensis <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/beaufortia-kweichowensis> and http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-i <http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life- i> n-the-fast-lane A bubble wand would NOT give you the fast moving water that these fish prefer. Powerheads would be better and are probably the least expensive option to increase water circulation in a tank. What size tank do you have? Do you have a canister filter system or other type? If a canister, you could put the returning water spray bar on one end of the tank spraying towards the other end of the tank at the surface and then the intake for the canister on the same end as the spray bar with the intake close to the bottom so the water would rush across the surface, hit the other end and then return across the bottom. You would probably want at least 5X and possibly up to 10X of water circulation so make sure the canister filter provides this kind of volume. This is a cool/cold water fish so you should not mix it with tropical fish. Cool/cold water (less than 74F) also holds O2 better than warm water which is another reason they need the cool/cold water conditions. While goldfish are also cool/cold water fish, fancy goldfish would not like the kind of water movement you are looking for and goldfish need LOTS of water volume since they get so BIG... but Zebra Danios, Buenos Aires Tetras and some of the other fish on this list http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm <http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm> would be more suitable as tank mates. Check out the individual species for specific species compatibility. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of josh4fish Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Bubbles... Hey all, Just purchased a Borneo Sucker. I understand they like lots of running water and oxygen. Would a bubble wand work? What other relativley cheap ideas do you have? Thanks. Josh ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:12:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:30:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 2:26:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 2:45:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30516	From: CanAm	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

I see you have chemical....ok, that's solve the problem....of the algae, the plantes and the fish, let me guess, Copper Sulphate ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:02 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters Algae is a concern of mine, but I have chemicals to kill algae. I'm not gonna eat what I grow, so I'm not worried about poisoning myself. I also figure that the plants will shade the tank eventually, but it probably would be a good idea to light proof it. We'll see. I'm not following you on the rest though. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> wrote: > > Oups, ouch,.... :) If you want feed your plants and not the algae, the > best way to do it is with iron non soluble in water.....and non expose to > the light, it's means under the gravel... the iron have to not be > expose to the side glass of the tank too.... > > > > Laterite is a better choice for that. I even ban the florite as a top > layer in my tank ( this tuff attack algae like nothing else) . I always > bury it under other gravel, and eventually replace it with .. (Better not > mention it ) in my future tank.. > > > > Jerry > > .......... Too little > iron, I'll feed the fish beef heart or maybe frozen spinach. I'll > figure it out as I go. > > .. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30517	From: CanAm	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank

Very simple, when I start a new tank, I don't fill with a hose, I use 5 gal. bucket.... and I record it , so no guessing Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Scott" <w.j.scott@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank Hi Lenny, How do you allow for the amount of water in a tank when there are rock Formations and decorations? For example. A 100 gal tank with numerous large driftwood and rocks. The tank needs to be medicated/treated and you are not sure of the amount to add? Just a thought for everyone to ponder !!!!!!!!! Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/25/2008 8:30:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Bubbles... Borneo Sucker is one of the common names given to the Hillstream Loach (Beaufortia kweichowensis). http://www.loaches.com/species-index/beaufortia-kweichowensis and http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-i n-the-fast-lane A bubble wand would NOT give you the fast moving water that these fish prefer. Powerheads would be better and are probably the least expensive option to increase water circulation in a tank. What size tank do you have? Do you have a canister filter system or other type? If a canister, you could put the returning water spray bar on one end of the tank spraying towards the other end of the tank at the surface and then the intake for the canister on the same end as the spray bar with the intake close to the bottom so the water would rush across the surface, hit the other end and then return across the bottom. You would probably want at least 5X and possibly up to 10X of water circulation so make sure the canister filter provides this kind of volume. This is a cool/cold water fish so you should not mix it with tropical fish. Cool/cold water (less than 74F) also holds O2 better than warm water which is another reason they need the cool/cold water conditions. While goldfish are also cool/cold water fish, fancy goldfish would not like the kind of water movement you are looking for and goldfish need LOTS of water volume since they get so BIG... but Zebra Danios, Buenos Aires Tetras and some of the other fish on this list http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm would be more suitable as tank mates. Check out the individual species for specific species compatibility. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josh4fish Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bubbles... Hey all, Just purchased a Borneo Sucker. I understand they like lots of running water and oxygen. Would a bubble wand work? What other relativley cheap ideas do you have? Thanks. Josh ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:12:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:30:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30518	From: Richard Haley	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen

Just optimize flow thru without blinding the media, purigen bags are easy to regenarate, and last forever I have used this media extensively on everything from Emperor power filters and penguins, H.O.T. Magnum, aquaclear filters of all sizes. Tanks sizes from 125 gallon to 10 gallon tanks.  This media if it does get blinded i.e. clogged, just wash the bag off and place it back in the filter. You can also get some uncut poly pad and wrap the media bag in it to keep clogging to a minimum. Read the instruction on how to regenarate it is on the box. --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Purigen To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 10:24 AM I don't know exactly what Purigen is. But if it's supposed to remove a chemical substance from teh water and particularly if it's at all expensive, I would not make it the first layer of filtering that the water goes through. (which on most filters would be if you put it behind the filter cartridge) I'd put it so that the water goes through something else first. The reason is that whatever the water goes through first accumultaes the balance of the gunk that accumulates in your filter and causes it to need replacing. I have two size A Penguin (marineland) filters in my 20 gallon. When I had a 10 gallon I had one of them. In each filter I have a polyfilter pad, a Penguin filter cartridge, and a bag of small nanoballs. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Haley" <lowjack989@yahoo. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Purigen If you have a regular power filter then place it behind the intial filtration, i.e. the filter pad or you may be forced to put it in front of the filter pad. It is most efficient in the aquaclear type filters that have the media stacked. It is plenty efficient either way with a 10 gallon tank just try to optimize media flow through and it will be fine. --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Suzy Snowflake <grammypat@txcyber. com> wrote: From: Suzy Snowflake <grammypat@txcyber. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Purigen To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 10:11 PM I finally got some from foster and smith I must be incredibly dumb. I can't figure out what to do with it. It comes in a little sac that says it is good for 100 gallons. I have a 10 gallon tank!! What do I do? The only directions said to rinse it and put in filter. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Just so I'm clear, what are the numbers in brackets (xx)? Are the new readings for tap water right out the tap or after how long of sitting out in a bucket? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:16 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! so here are my new readings tap water ph 7 (7.5) no2- <.3 (<.3) Ammonia o (o) gh 17 (14) Why in the world would this happen? Tank water today ph 9 (9) no2- 1.6 (.8) ammonia0 (0) gh 13 (12) I added the drift wood last night and took all the live plants out as well. I'm thinking i'm gonna loose a goldfish soon. he was acting funny last night and I thought i lost him but a molly chased him outta hiding I think its only a matter of time though, probably all of them if I cant give this figured out. I bought some bottled water for a water change but I didnt know if i should do it or wait. I've got ick med , stress coat and melafix in there. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:44:04 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Six 7" stalks of anacharis would not use up enough CO2 to create thatdramatic of a pH change. Either the water out of the tap has a high CO2level, like some well water sources, so it comes out the tap at 7.5 and thenas the CO2 outgases, the pH rises to 9.0, or something in the tank israising the pH once the water is added to the tank. Could be a limestonesubstrate or something else. Ammonia has a higher pH of 11 but it would take an awful lot of ammonia... a50/50 solution of ammonia and 7.0 water to make a 9.0 pH so I know it's notthe slight (but dangerous to fish) ammonia levels in the tank that areaffecting the pH very much. Now, with fishless cycling where we raise theammonia to 4-5ppm, there will be some pH bounce but still not that much of achange. The tank is too new to have very much decaying detritus and other ecologicaland bacterial action to be putting out very much CO2 either. It takes awhile (several weeks) for detritus (fish poop, uneaten food, etc.) to decayto the point where it's putting out a lot of carbonic acid and using up theKH in the water to where it starts to affect the pH to that degree.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Dora SmithSent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:22 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Lenny, could the live plants be raising hte ph in her tank above the ph ofthe tap water? They remove nitrogen wastes and phosphates from the water.They also use carbon dioxide, which acidifies the water.The diatom bloom that lowered the levels of both nitrates and phosphates inmy tank to 0, did a wonder at raising the ph in my tank while it was at it.I'm not sure if it's the nitrogen waste products themselves or the processof converting them that creates acid in the tank, and I believe thatphosphates definitely acidify the tank.The phosphate level is high in my tap water. This is part of why it was soremarkable when it was suddenly 0. The nitrate level is 0 too, after a weekand a half of neglecting the tank, and there's brown stuff coveringeverything that turn out ot be diatoms under the microscope? I thought, OK,I think we know where it went.Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... <mailto:TXtiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>----- Original Message -----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:26 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!You may want to remove the live plants since you have dosed the tank withsalt. Many FW plants do not do well with salt treatments. Just put them in abucket of fresh water with a drop of dechlor and they should be fine untilyou are done with salting your tank.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:03 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I also forgot to mention that I have some anacharis in there as well butonly 6 7in clipings. They are starting to die though so. i need to get themclipped off."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks________________________________ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 4:05:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30520	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Stress coat does not "remove" ammonia, it merely converts it to a less toxic form that should still show up in your tests as an ammonia level. There's a chance the ammonia is dropping, possibly due to your ammonia eating bacteria colony growing to a large enough size and eating the available ammonia and converting it to nitrite which is why your nitrite went up. As the nitrite eating bacteria colonies grow, they'll start eating up the nitrites and converting them to nitrates. This is the nitrogen "cycle" as referred to in aquaria. Even with the salt in the tank to protect against nitrite poisoning, you'll still have to do frequent 25% PWC's whenever your nitrites get to 1.0ppm. If you had been keeping a daily log of your test results, you would see this happening in writing. Make sure you read over my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not trash your nitrifying bacteria colonies which mostly grow in the filter media. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:39 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Dora, the reason my ammonia level dropped so much, I'm assuiming is because i put stress coat + in there which is supposed to remove the ammonia. my no2- went back up today though. I find it hard to read the test results. the colors all seem so close with certain tests. sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.comDate> : Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:15:44 -0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Oh, one other thing. Bubble air through the water in the bucket.The ph in my water that I'm preparing to put in the tank doesn't come down if I jsut leave it sit; only if I bubble air through it. In your actual aquarium you probably bubble air through it, and if you don't it's because the filter helps mix air into the water.i am wondering if that is really why your ph would be going UP dramatically, particularly since the high ph is consistent with the high water hardness and alkalinity.I am noticing that your numbers often don't make alot of sense. For example, ammonia sky high one day and 0 the next? Not possible unless you did a 100% water change. And got all the fish waste out of the tank.Try doing each test twice. ;)If you're using the API tests, make sure you are shaking the bottles thoroughly, especially with the tests that tell you for example to shake the bottle for 30 seconds or a minute, that you're doing that right before you add drops to the test tube and not a minute or two sooner and then you set down teh bottles until you're ready for them, that your test tubes are clean - and even rinsed in what you're going to test in them, and that you hold the bottles vertically upside down over the test tube and let the drops form slowly and all the way before you let them drop one at a time into the test tube.I've seen these things make a big difference, for example, in the results of my high ph test - and for that you're barely supposed to even have to shake the bottle!Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@... <mailto:TXtiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:17 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!You need to do a tap water baseline test. Fill up a gallon bucket with tapwater. Test it. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait another 24 hoursand test it again. We need to find out if the pH of your tap is going upfrom 7.5 to 9.0 or if something in your tank is raising it. Usually, the pHout of the tap will go down after the water is exposed to air but if yourwater source is a well, then they sometimes have higher levels of CO2 in thewater which will outgas after the water is exposed to air. CO2 will lowerthe pH so that could be why your pH is lower right out the tap and thenrises once the water is exposed to air. The only way to know is to do thetap water baseline tests.If you are reading all posts made to the group, you'll see I just replied toanother member about "Aquarium Salt". There is no need to buy that again.It's the same as the salt in the Morton Salt or non-brand name salt that youbuy at the store for 35 cents a pound. Further, when "salting" a tank, youshould not add the full dose at once but rather no more than 1/3rd at atime, every 12 hours, until you reach the full dose over the course of 24hours. Adding a full dose at once can cause osmotic shock to the fish andalso kill off your nitrifying bacteria... although in your case, your tankisn't cycled yet so you don't have to worry about that issue.The Stress Coat probably wasn't needed and I don't add all of themstress-this or slime-that type products to my tanks. It's just addingunnecessary chemicals into a closed environment. This is why I recommendedgetting Prime as it doesn't have any of the unneeded chemicals in it.I have used Melafix and it has worked for me in the past but you have toworry that you are doing too much, too fast, which can also cause problems.None of these products answers your bigger problems of having incompatiblefish (cool water and tropicals) and not having a large enough tank. All themedicines or water treatments in the world will not fix those problems.Please, for you and your fish sake... and any other members reading this...ask us here first what you should buy/use instead of getting conned out ofyour money at the pet stores. Most of the time, it was their bad advicethat got you into trouble in the first place.I'll try to remember when telling someone to use a "pinch of salt to protectagainst nitrite poisoning"... that I mean plain old table salt.... plain oriodized when only using a pinch.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:29 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Okay so I made a trip to the pet store today. They sent me home with someAquarium salt (I put in 6tbl spoons) some stress coat + for the ammonia andto help with the stress. I put in 6 tsp. They also gave me some melafix tohelp my shark with pop eye so i put in 3 tsp of it. I also picked up somedrift wood to help with the hardness. I havent put that in yet. These are mytap water results: PH= 7.5 NO2-=<.3mg Ammonia=0ml GH=14 and here are my newtank conditions (this mornings): ph= 9(9) no2-= .8(1.6) ammonia = 0(1.5)GH=12 (14) which is alot better.As you can see my tap water is extremely hard. I had orignally filled mytank with my tap water. thought thats why I was having so many problems.Apparently its just the hardness. what would be messing with my ph?So this is what I am going to continue doing: Continue treating the pop eyewith melafix for the next 6 days, contiune with the Quick Cure for Ich for 1more day unless needed and add the drift wood. Any other suggestions?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks_____________________________________ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 4:11:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30521	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen

I put my Purigen as the last stage of filtration... that is the last layer that the water passes through so all of the larger particulates will have already been filtered out of the water so that the Purigen only has to work on the DOC's, etc. If you have hard water or high KH water, doing the last stage (soaking it in buffer) of regeneration/cleaning of Purigen may not be necessary. You will see in the instructions that Marine tanks do not need this third step so I started wondering why... since Marine fish are so much more sensitive to water quality issues. The reason... SW tanks have much harder water. Apparently, after doing the bleach soak, then the dechlor soak stages and then rinsing good, Purigen has a propensity to absorb a certain level of GH/KH related minerals. This is the reason for the soak in the buffer product. I tested my own recharged Purigen in a gallon of my dechlored tap water and even after 48 hours with a small HOB running on the gallon of water, there was no change in my water parameters. Now.. if you do not have hard water, then the buffer soak should probably be done. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Haley Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Purigen Just optimize flow thru without blinding the media, purigen bags are easy to regenarate, and last forever I have used this media extensively on everything from Emperor power filters and penguins, H.O.T. Magnum, aquaclear filters of all sizes. Tanks sizes from 125 gallon to 10 gallon tanks. This media if it does get blinded i.e. clogged, just wash the bag off and place it back in the filter. You can also get some uncut poly pad and wrap the media bag in it to keep clogging to a minimum. Read the instruction on how to regenarate it is on the box. --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Purigen To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 10:24 AM I don't know exactly what Purigen is. But if it's supposed to remove a chemical substance from teh water and particularly if it's at all expensive, I would not make it the first layer of filtering that the water goes through. (which on most filters would be if you put it behind the filter cartridge) I'd put it so that the water goes through something else first. The reason is that whatever the water goes through first accumultaes the balance of the gunk that accumulates in your filter and causes it to need replacing. I have two size A Penguin (marineland) filters in my 20 gallon. When I had a 10 gallon I had one of them. In each filter I have a polyfilter pad, a Penguin filter cartridge, and a bag of small nanoballs. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Haley" <lowjack989@yahoo. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Purigen If you have a regular power filter then place it behind the intial filtration, i.e. the filter pad or you may be forced to put it in front of the filter pad. It is most efficient in the aquaclear type filters that have the media stacked. It is plenty efficient either way with a 10 gallon tank just try to optimize media flow through and it will be fine. --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Suzy Snowflake <grammypat@txcyber. com> wrote: From: Suzy Snowflake <grammypat@txcyber. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Purigen To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 10:11 PM I finally got some from foster and smith I must be incredibly dumb. I can't figure out what to do with it. It comes in a little sac that says it is good for 100 gallons. I have a 10 gallon tank!! What do I do? The only directions said to rinse it and put in filter. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 4:08:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 4:21:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30522	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

The number in brackets was yesterday's results. The new tap water results were from the water sitting out for 24 hours. I would have been testing but I just got my kit two days ago so thats when i started. I seperated my two mollies out of the 35 and put them in my 2.5 They were getting really mean with the goldfishes fins. so I guess I should do a 25% water change tonight since my no2- is 1.6 right? sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:11:26 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Stress coat does not "remove" ammonia, it merely converts it to a less toxicform that should still show up in your tests as an ammonia level. There's a chance the ammonia is dropping, possibly due to your ammoniaeating bacteria colony growing to a large enough size and eating theavailable ammonia and converting it to nitrite which is why your nitritewent up. As the nitrite eating bacteria colonies grow, they'll start eatingup the nitrites and converting them to nitrates. This is the nitrogen"cycle" as referred to in aquaria. Even with the salt in the tank to protect against nitrite poisoning, you'llstill have to do frequent 25% PWC's whenever your nitrites get to 1.0ppm.If you had been keeping a daily log of your test results, you would see thishappening in writing.Make sure you read over my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" soyou do not trash your nitrifying bacteria colonies which mostly grow in thefilter media.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:39 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Dora, the reason my ammonia level dropped so much, I'm assuiming is becausei put stress coat + in there which is supposed to remove the ammonia. myno2- went back up today though. I find it hard to read the test results. thecolors all seem so close with certain tests.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : tiggernut24@...<mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.comDate> : Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:15:44-0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Oh, one other thing. Bubble air through the water in the bucket.The ph in mywater that I'm preparing to put in the tank doesn't come down if I jsutleave it sit; only if I bubble air through it. In your actual aquarium youprobably bubble air through it, and if you don't it's because the filterhelps mix air into the water.i am wondering if that is really why your phwould be going UP dramatically, particularly since the high ph is consistentwith the high water hardness and alkalinity.I am noticing that your numbersoften don't make alot of sense. For example, ammonia sky high one day and 0the next? Not possible unless you did a 100% water change. And got all thefish waste out of the tank.Try doing each test twice. ;)If you're using theAPI tests, make sure you are shaking the bottles thoroughly, especially withthe tests that tell you for example to shake the bottle for 30 seconds or aminute, that you're doing that right before you add drops to the test tubeand not a minute or two sooner and then you set down teh bottles untilyou're ready for them, that your test tubes are clean - and even rinsed inwhat you're going to test in them, and that you hold the bottles verticallyupside down over the test tube and let the drops form slowly and all the waybefore you let them drop one at a time into the test tube.I've seen thesethings make a big difference, for example, in the results of my high ph test- and for that you're barely supposed to even have to shake thebottle!Yours,Dora SmithAustin, TXtiggernut24@...<mailto:TXtiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "LennyV. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:17 PMSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!You need to do a tap water baseline test.Fill up a gallon bucket with tapwater. Test it. Wait 24 hours and test itagain. Wait another 24 hoursand test it again. We need to find out if the pHof your tap is going upfrom 7.5 to 9.0 or if something in your tank israising it. Usually, the pHout of the tap will go down after the water isexposed to air but if yourwater source is a well, then they sometimes havehigher levels of CO2 in thewater which will outgas after the water isexposed to air. CO2 will lowerthe pH so that could be why your pH is lowerright out the tap and thenrises once the water is exposed to air. The onlyway to know is to do thetap water baseline tests.If you are reading allposts made to the group, you'll see I just replied toanother member about"Aquarium Salt". There is no need to buy that again.It's the same as thesalt in the Morton Salt or non-brand name salt that youbuy at the store for35 cents a pound. Further, when "salting" a tank, youshould not add the fulldose at once but rather no more than 1/3rd at atime, every 12 hours, untilyou reach the full dose over the course of 24hours. Adding a full dose atonce can cause osmotic shock to the fish andalso kill off your nitrifyingbacteria... although in your case, your tankisn't cycled yet so you don'thave to worry about that issue.The Stress Coat probably wasn't needed and Idon't add all of themstress-this or slime-that type products to my tanks.It's just addingunnecessary chemicals into a closed environment. This is whyI recommendedgetting Prime as it doesn't have any of the unneeded chemicalsin it.I have used Melafix and it has worked for me in the past but you havetoworry that you are doing too much, too fast, which can also causeproblems.None of these products answers your bigger problems of havingincompatiblefish (cool water and tropicals) and not having a large enoughtank. All themedicines or water treatments in the world will not fix thoseproblems.Please, for you and your fish sake... and any other members readingthis...ask us here first what you should buy/use instead of getting connedout ofyour money at the pet stores. Most of the time, it was their badadvicethat got you into trouble in the first place.I'll try to remember whentelling someone to use a "pinch of salt to protectagainst nitritepoisoning"... that I mean plain old table salt.... plain oriodized when onlyusing a pinch.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:29 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Help!Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Okay so I made a trip to the pet storetoday. They sent me home with someAquarium salt (I put in 6tbl spoons) somestress coat + for the ammonia andto help with the stress. I put in 6 tsp.They also gave me some melafix tohelp my shark with pop eye so i put in 3tsp of it. I also picked up somedrift wood to help with the hardness. Ihavent put that in yet. These are mytap water results: PH= 7.5 NO2-=<.3mgAmmonia=0ml GH=14 and here are my newtank conditions (this mornings): ph=9(9) no2-= .8(1.6) ammonia = 0(1.5)GH=12 (14) which is alot better.As youcan see my tap water is extremely hard. I had orignally filled mytank withmy tap water. thought thats why I was having so many problems.Apparently itsjust the hardness. what would be messing with my ph?So this is what I amgoing to continue doing: Continue treating the pop eyewith melafix for thenext 6 days, contiune with the Quick Cure for Ich for 1more day unlessneeded and add the drift wood. Any other suggestions?Sarah"With kids there'sno guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me ascript of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry iswayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte)and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such ahigh pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. Youneed toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify theammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fishfromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fishorgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfishbeingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plansfora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since theygettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank fortwofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrongwithyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what youhavein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is yourtapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucketfor24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your nextansweralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Ofcheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help!Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful rightnow.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here aremystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreatingforick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left.Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter totreatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?Whatcan Ido now to help?Thanks__________________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008Tested on: 9/25/2008 4:11:25 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30523	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen

I didn't realize the inner package was actually a filter bag, DUH!!! I put it in at night and the next morning the tank was crystal clear. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30524	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen

We'll blame it on a senior moment! ;-) Unless you're a blonde? LOL I know I'm in trouble now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzy Snowflake Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Purigen I didn't realize the inner package was actually a filter bag, DUH!!! I put it in at night and the next morning the tank was crystal clear. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 5:49:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 5:53:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30525	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

I don't know. I can't find it. I think its no more algae by jungle. Would using it for prevenative maintenance to keep out growth be a bad thing?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30526	From: CanAm	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

Here I'm talking about the No more algae liquid. You know if you consult the MSDS of this product, it's supposed to contain no hazardous material. Here the composition of this product : 1- DIURON, an herbicide, it can kill grass and weeds , do you think it's safe on plants ????? Diuron, MSDS say it's Carcinogen, Cardiovascular or Blood Toxicant, so what to think about the MSDS of Jungle Lab, obviously one lie, but I will not understand why the manufacturer of DIURON will say it's dangerous when it's not, of course the concentration is week in the No More Algae, But plants have the tendency to accumulate chemical in their body.. 2- Sulfuric acid , Copper Salt, here it come my Copper... My opinion is than Jungle is using a too week solution to be effective, just to be save with the regulation on use of herbicide. So use it or not will not fix the problem of algae , as it will not create other problem. For me IT'S A PLACEBO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I don't know. I can't find it. I think its no more algae by jungle. Would using it for prevenative maintenance to keep out growth be a bad thing? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30527	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

Chemicals to kill algae??? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters Algae is a concern of mine, but I have chemicals to kill algae. I'm not gonna eat what I grow, so I'm not worried about poisoning myself. I also figure that the plants will shade the tank eventually, but it probably would be a good idea to light proof it. We'll see. I'm not following you on the rest though. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> wrote: > > Oups, ouch,.... :) If you want feed your plants and not the algae, the > best way to do it is with iron non soluble in water.....and non expose to > the light, it's means under the gravel... the iron have to not be > expose to the side glass of the tank too.... > > > > Laterite is a better choice for that. I even ban the florite as a top > layer in my tank ( this tuff attack algae like nothing else) . I always > bury it under other gravel, and eventually replace it with .. (Better not > mention it ) in my future tank.. > > > > Jerry > > .......... Too little > iron, I'll feed the fish beef heart or maybe frozen spinach. I'll > figure it out as I go. > > .. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30528	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

Better to remove the source of the problem than to treat the result. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I don't know. I can't find it. I think its no more algae by jungle. Would using it for prevenative maintenance to keep out growth be a bad thing? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30529	From: CanAm	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

I agree , but without problem it will remove the fun to drop the chemistry kit in the water no ? I remeber when I was young, with my chemistry kit I was changing the water in wine, can be interesting to try in a tank, where is my phenolphatalein ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters Better to remove the source of the problem than to treat the result. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I don't know. I can't find it. I think its no more algae by jungle. Would using it for prevenative maintenance to keep out growth be a bad thing? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30530	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

I just remember the fire department being a frequent visitor to my house when my chemistry kit experiments would go awry and smoke us out. LOL I never did burn anything down though. I guess that's why they don't make chemistry sets for kids any longer.. do they? I think kids have video games nowadays... where I had a Microscope Set, a Chemistry Set, a Telescope, an Electronics Kit... and then we also had BB Guns, sling shots, fishing poles, our good ole trusty bicycles and lots of sports. No air bags in cars, rarely even thought about a seatbelt except how to shove that stupid clasp under the seat to get it out the way. I also remember laying down on the rear window deck on long family vacations or riding in the back of the station wagon with the rear window rolled down. How did we all survive??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I agree , but without problem it will remove the fun to drop the chemistry kit in the water no ? I remeber when I was young, with my chemistry kit I was changing the water in wine, can be interesting to try in a tank, where is my phenolphatalein ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters Better to remove the source of the problem than to treat the result. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I don't know. I can't find it. I think its no more algae by jungle. Would using it for prevenative maintenance to keep out growth be a bad thing? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 9:14:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 9:36:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30531	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

Thanks for the advice! If I could afford it I would get a UV system to kill algae. What is your opinion on hydrogen peroxide? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I'm not talking about digital or electronic monitoring devices. I was > at the local pet store today and saw meters that test separately for > different water chemistry or ph. I didn't read the package to see how > it worked, but I know you suction cup it from inside the tank, and you > get a 24/7 reading of what ever chemistry it is made for. I saw them > for $6 and they last 6 weeks. That sounds cheaper and and way more > convenient than using test kits all the time. I'm hopping to start a q > tank and a second tank, and I like to work smarter, not harder. Does > anyone here have experience with them? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30532	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

I was listening to Dr. Bill Wattenberg on the radio one night and a caller mentioned that very thing about chemistry sets and that he has been able to find them on eBay. I am sure they are not cheap but you could relive your danger days :) -Mike I just remember the fire department being a frequent visitor to my house when my chemistry kit experiments would go awry and smoke us out. LOL I never did burn anything down though. I guess that's why they don't make chemistry sets for kids any longer.. do they? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 7:36 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I just remember the fire department being a frequent visitor to my house when my chemistry kit experiments would go awry and smoke us out. LOL I never did burn anything down though. I guess that's why they don't make chemistry sets for kids any longer.. do they? I think kids have video games nowadays... where I had a Microscope Set, a Chemistry Set, a Telescope, an Electronics Kit... and then we also had BB Guns, sling shots, fishing poles, our good ole trusty bicycles and lots of sports. No air bags in cars, rarely even thought about a seatbelt except how to shove that stupid clasp under the seat to get it out the way. I also remember laying down on the rear window deck on long family vacations or riding in the back of the station wagon with th e rear window rolled down. How did we all survive??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I agree , but without problem it will remove the fun to drop the chemistry kit in the water no ? I remeber when I was young, with my chemistry kit I was changing the water in wine, can be interesting to try in a tank, where is my phenolphatalein ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters Better to remove the source of the problem than to treat the result. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I don't know. I can't find it. I think its no more algae by jungle. Would using it for prevenative maintenance to keep out growth be a bad thing? [Non-text portions of this message h ave been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 9:14:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 9:36:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30533	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish??

As long as you are not using expired reagents, very accurate. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? How accurate are the Aqua Tru tests? Tetra's are also easy to read - but the results seem to be all over the place relative to API's and people say that API's are more accurate. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? This is the biggest reason why I recommend the AquaTru kits by Kordon. It is pretty easy to distinguish the colors and they also make it easy for you to determine the true color no matter what color your water is (and your water will have some color to it). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Lenny, I took the online tests for color blindedness. The ones at the place you apply for a drivers license too (it's the same test), and also the eye doctor's. My color vision is fine and has not changed. You got on me that my color vision must be bad, too, and you wouldn't drop it. It isn't our color vision. It's API's tests. In reality they're notoriously hard to read. Just google it. Alot of people can't make head or tail of them. Tetra's tests are inaccurate, but they're easier to read. The various values don't look almost identical. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:08 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API Master Test. Is it yellow or greenish?? Retest your water and give us the numbers for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte and pH. You'll see why I'm asking for this in the coming paragraphs. Here's a couple of free online color-blindness tests. I'm not sure if you've taken these or another one but figured I'd post these again for any new members of the ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30534	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

Naaaaah.. Now I know too much and could really do damage with a chemistry set... and the police and fire departments don't laugh things off as easily nowadays. I feel sorry for kids today. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I was listening to Dr. Bill Wattenberg on the radio one night and a caller mentioned that very thing about chemistry sets and that he has been able to find them on eBay. I am sure they are not cheap but you could relive your danger days :) -Mike I just remember the fire department being a frequent visitor to my house when my chemistry kit experiments would go awry and smoke us out. LOL I never did burn anything down though. I guess that's why they don't make chemistry sets for kids any longer.. do they? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 7:36 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I just remember the fire department being a frequent visitor to my house when my chemistry kit experiments would go awry and smoke us out. LOL I never did burn anything down though. I guess that's why they don't make chemistry sets for kids any longer.. do they? I think kids have video games nowadays... where I had a Microscope Set, a Chemistry Set, a Telescope, an Electronics Kit... and then we also had BB Guns, sling shots, fishing poles, our good ole trusty bicycles and lots of sports. No air bags in cars, rarely even thought about a seatbelt except how to shove that stupid clasp under the seat to get it out the way. I also remember laying down on the rear window deck on long family vacations or riding in the back of the station wagon with th e rear window rolled down. How did we all survive??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I agree , but without problem it will remove the fun to drop the chemistry kit in the water no ? I remeber when I was young, with my chemistry kit I was changing the water in wine, can be interesting to try in a tank, where is my phenolphatalein ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters Better to remove the source of the problem than to treat the result. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: In tank ammonia meeters I don't know. I can't find it. I think its no more algae by jungle. Would using it for prevenative maintenance to keep out growth be a bad thing? [Non-text portions of this message h ave been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 9:14:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 9:36:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 9:45:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 9:54:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30535	From: Chris	Date: 9/25/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

Who needs chemistry sets when you have good old Jolly Rodger and his Anarchist Cook Book? Chemistry sets are one thing, plastic explosives and bleach bombs are another!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30536	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Hi Lenny, Received your reply to my Salt issues when confronting nitrite and ammonia poisoning. First, I regret that my statement(s) may have been misleading (or mis-read) by some when, in my attempts to cover both bases (nitrite and ammonia), I may not have made myself absolutely clear even while thinking I did. While my message did start out as addressing both high ammonia and nitrite, I soon went into Brown Blood Syndrome associated primarily with nitrite. You are correct in that a relatively small amount of salt ("pinch" - 5.0 mg/L) will counteract the effects of potential nitrite poisoning, provided it is administered before the fact. After the affects of high nitrite are being felt by the fish (after they become poisoned and having Brown Blood Syndrome), one does need to add the much higher amounts of salt I outlined along with weeks of attention to it to now counteract these effects. Perhaps this is where any confusion might have come into play, even though I did finish up with again addressing both nitrite and ammonia. While the excerpt you sent is nicely informative, it does not cover effects of high ammonia which can be misleading in itself when not considering a possible ammonia problem along with it. In my estimation, unless the hobbyist is aware of having only a high nitrite condition, it would seem foolhardy to me not to protect against both nitrite and ammonia as at least just as many high nitrite problems are accompanied by high ammonia as are not; probably more (most?). Many of our beginners are not even fully aware of what is happening when first starting to have these problems, although they seem to most often have a combination of both. As can be seen by my suggestions, it takes just a bit more (minimum 1/8 tsp/Gal. -- to 1/4 tsp/Gal.) salt to head off the toxic effects of ammonia as it does to head off the toxic effects of nitrite, but still only a "token" amount when compared to that amount of salt needed counteract these toxic effects after they occur. No need to go into the stress it puts fish through after they've already been poisoned, although it can be seen as nothing less than pitiful, but my post was not about that. I'm hoping this may be a warning to those not educating themselves about this potential problem, or to those who may become complacent in aquarium maintenance thinking they can "get away with" poorer mantenance procedures. Also hoping this may instruct those hobbyists who have inadvertantly gotten themselves into this situation, being learning beginners, and now knowing how to proceed with token salt additions to keep them out of trouble while they correct their problems. Lenny, I'm fully aware that you know the relationship between ammonia, nitrite and the temperature of the water with the increase of these last two conditions leading to higher toxicity of the first two. If I implied differently, I didn't mean to. I would like to get into the interesting prospect of salt additions leading to a higher pH, although I'm not exactly sure what you meant by adding that "other water parameters" may affect the pH reading with the addition of salt). Anyway, as far as I've known up until now, and much as I can understand it, I see no reason at all why plain salt (NaCl) would raise the pH, nor would it increase the alkalinity (buffering capacity). It would be much different if we were talking about a marine salt mix having additions of most (all?) of the trace elements found in natural sea water, in addition to it having a good proportion of magnesium salts. Still, I was quite curious and thought I'd find out once and for all, having been prompted by your input. As such, I filled one of my pH test vials 1/4 full (25%) of table salt, filling the remainder with stock tank water and adding the appropriate number of test reagent drops. I then did the same with another vial using only stock tank water. There was absolutely no discernable difference in the pH, but it was interesting to find out conclusively. Stock tank water, incidentally, is that water that I draw from my private well and which I fill my four 125 gallon holding tanks with, which I use as my fresh water sources for doing my PWC's after it has first off-gassed its CO2 and has come up to room temperature (I heat the hatchery, rather than heating individual tanks). This water is 3.5 dGH and after off-gassing has a pH of 6.8, slightly variable from season to season. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30537	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank

Bill, On top of what Lenny is pointing out, with your rocks, driftwood, etc., you also have to keep in mind that aquarium capacities are figured on the full dimensions of the tank, i.e., having your water column right up to the very top of the rim of the tank -- which no one would find very practical, resulting in everybody keeping their water lines at least an inch (or two?) below the very top, or below the actual tank capacity even if it were bare. This alone is why medication suppliers consider on a bit of leeway with the applications of most meds, with few exceptions. One exception that does come to mind, but still offers a slight amount of variance, is Clout which you need to be just a little more careful with in not overdosing. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30538	From: vivian bradish	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: I rescued a fish tank, hope I am taking the right steps to save the

I manage property and a new tenant was moving in. They had a 20 gallon fish tank that was less than half full of green water with 6 tiger barbs. There is a filter but not running and is extreemly disgustingly green and yellow. I shamed them into giving me the tank. It was sitting in the back of a pick up truck in the full sun here in Florida. When I got it home I cleaned up the filter with hot water and put in a new charcoal pad. However, I could not run it because the water level was way below the intake. I filled two buckets with water and added Amquel and PH up and put it into what little bit of water was still in the tank so I could get the level up to the intake tube. I did not take the old water out as I felt the fish needed some of that cycled water instead of all new water, was I right in assuming that? These poor fish were in a frantic state of swimming and bumping into the sides of the tank when I first got it. I did not know what else to do, except what I wrote above. Today the water is a quite a bit clearer. The fish are pretty much hiding behind the tank decorations. However they came out when I fed them and they did eat. I know I have to clean the gravel and the ornaments and scrub the algae off the inside of the tank. However, I do not want to stress the fish out anymore than they already are. I hope these tiger barbs are hearty fish. I would love to keep this tank going with more aggressive fish than I have in my passive tank. Any suggestions on what to do and what order to do it in? Should I wait a few days to do anything else so the fish can calm down? Help please, I do not want them to die. Thanks Viv Another question--My 40 gallon has Platys, black skirts, coreys, a pleco and quite a few Endlers. I really don't think I should put the barbs in there as I fear the Endlers would become food for the Barbs. Is it safe to assume that?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30539	From: Alina	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Aquarium Temps

Question on temps: I live in Florida, keep my house around 78-79 degrees, but my tank keeps hovering around 82. How badly will this affect my tropical fish? So far, I have tetras, 2 mollies, three or four guppies, a couple of platies and one apple snail. I lost two guppies for unknown reasons this week...water levels were good, but water was just shy of 82. Been bringing it down artificially in the evenings with a frozen bottle of water in a ziplock bag, and that gets it down to about 80. It is not near a window..and moving it at this stage would be quite difficult, would rather not stress the fish if poss. Thanks alina (oh, and tank is 38-gal, is new, been set up about 7 weeks now)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30540	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: In tank ammonia meeters

Chris, Its always best not to use any chemicals whenever possible, especially ones that aren't needed. Using chemicals indiscriminately or as a "preventative" for something you don't have a problem with is poor aquarium maintenance and can lead to problems with your fish and/or plants. Fish certainly don't need to contend with any chemical additives that are not a part of their natural world -- while some may be harmless, the effects of others may be completely unknown to you and may well have adverse effects. Any chemical that can kill off any live, be it plant or animal, has an effect on all living beings even if its slight. This ongoing effect, when maintained as part of your water column, will continue to bear a low-grade stressing factor on your fish, similar in a fashion to having a low-grade infection in one's self. You can live with it, but it will eventually have an adverse effecvt on your immune system after a while, making you more easily prone to contracting other infections more easily. Many toxic elements found in such products as an algae remover (killer), are in such low proportions as to not outwardly affect higher life forms such as fish, yet they are still poisonous; in larger proportions they may become lethal to fish. Would you want to consume only traces of arsenic with your meals, even though they wouldn't kill you -- I think not. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30541	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: I rescued a fish tank, hope I am taking the right steps to ...

Viv, With the original water level down half way, and your adding 2 buckets of water to bring the level near the top, I have to assume these were 5 gallon buckets, and that you added 10 gallons of water. This would be the eqivilent of doing a 50% water change -- a bit much, but not too severe considering they still had 50% of their original water (at who knows what parameters). Most anything would have probably been better than leaving them in the environment they were in. I don't know why you would have added pH Up though, especially since you indicated you are trying to take extra precautions not to stress the fish. The addition of 50% fresh water would have moderated the probable (not really sure at this point) acid water conditions (including any elevated ammonia or nitrite) they may have been found in. Then, additional water changes would have gotton their environment into having better parameters -- if their original parameters were detrimental (which is still unknown). A bit late now on the addition of pH up, but if their original water were high in ammonium, this may convert that waste compound to dangerous levels. Make sure you do some tests. You are saying at the outset of your post that the filter is not working. You haven't indicated you got it to work after re-establishing a correct water level for it -- only that the water is now clearer (the result of . . . ?). If the filter is still not working, this is one priority to address. With this, you should obtain the test results for the more pertinent water parameters necessary for their health, namely ammonia, nitrite and pH at this time. By these, you should be able to see if additional water changes need to be done, doing them now more gradually over the next few days if its necessary and keeping an eye on the parameters over these times. With any additional PWC's, at least vacuuming the top layer of the gravel would be a good move if you can't yet get to cleaning the gravel entirely. You should try to get some idea as to how badly the gravel may need cleaning so you know where to place that next procedure on you priority list. It may not be bad at all, and may only require some deep vacuuming, or it may be completely saturated with waste. Its something you need to find out soon as it can have a direct effect on the parameters, not to mention the possibility of it harboring anaerobic bacteria giving off noxious gases. I would not worry too much at this time about the algae on the glass, which may have been this tank's saving grace, by using up most of the nitrogenous waste products. If you now have this tank in a lighting situation that is far different (much decreased lighting) from its previous situation, it would be a good idea to start removing some of this algae over the next few days, one pane at a time only, so as to prevent a crash of this algae if not getting enough light, resulting in a dangerous bacterial bloom if the algae were to suddenly die off. Removing too much at once may stress the fish unless you were to add some live plants -- they will suddenly feel deprived of the security they felt with this algae cover. No, I would not place the Tiger Barbs with your other fish. Even if they couldn't catch up with your lively Endler's Livebearers, this species of Barbs is notorious as being fin-nippers and the rest of your fish would be put at risk of this behavior. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30542	From: hank voss	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Temps

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > Alina: I also am in Fla. and keep a 70 g. tank outside on the lanai and the temps.in the tank stay in the 80's year round with no problems.As long as you have good water circulation /aeration you should have no problem. Regards Hank > > Question on temps: I live in Florida, keep my house around 78-79 > degrees, but my tank keeps hovering around 82. > > How badly will this affect my tropical fish? So far, I have tetras, 2 > mollies, three or four guppies, a couple of platies and one apple > snail. I lost two guppies for unknown reasons this week...water > levels were good, but water was just shy of 82. > > Been bringing it down artificially in the evenings with a frozen > bottle of water in a ziplock bag, and that gets it down to about 80. > > It is not near a window..and moving it at this stage would be quite > difficult, would rather not stress the fish if poss. > > Thanks > > alina > > (oh, and tank is 38-gal, is new, been set up about 7 weeks now) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30543	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Update on my fishes

Okay, so last night I did a 40% water change and added bottled water instead of my tap water. I filtered it for a while and then this morning I added their medicine, quick cure and melafix. Here are my new water results, yesterdays is in the brackets. GH=9 (13) PH= 8 (9) Ammonia=0 (0) NO2-=.3 (1.6) What a change a water change will make! Both of my goldfish still have the ich pretty bad but the shark is doing great, minus the pop eye. I'm now sure if either goldfish will make it. My larger one is either constipated or getting ready to lay eggs but either way she is very sluggish and has a big belly. My smaller one, who I thought would pass a couple of days ago, is still hiding and laying on the bottom all the time. She comes up for a swim and then goes right back down. I moved the two mollies to a smaller tank since they were rough with the goldfish. They are doing great now. Thanks for all the info helping me with getting my tank in order. I'll be so happy when everything is constant for the most part and I dont have to search for fish every morning when I wake up. Sarah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30544	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes

Sarah, You parameters are looking a lot better, although that was a drastic change in pH; normally a stressful factor going through 1 full point. Don't mix meds now, but at the earliest opportunity 3 days after you're rid of the Ich, remove that medication and treat the shark for the pop-eye condition. While it can have several causes, if its bacterial induced try treating with either Kanamycin (SeaChem -- Kanaplex) or Minocycline (Mardel - Maracyn 2), both effective against this. If its viral, which is another possibility, it appears as though this is unfortunately untreatable, but the use of antibiotics is always a good move here in hopes its still caused by a bacterial pathogen (usually, Pseudomonas). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30545	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: I rescued a fish tank, hope I am taking the right steps to save

I would not have used the pH up chemical... especially not on this tank, nor on a tank that was not in bad shape. pH altering chemicals generally change the pH too much, too fast for fish to acclimate properly and cause them stress and could cause pH shock which can be fatal. Retail pH altering chemicals are usually a waste of money unless the fish keeper knows enough about the product and their own water chemistry to properly use those products. There are simpler more natural ways of adjusting the pH IF AND ONLY IF it really has to be done... usually it doesn't! What you should have done is test their current water to see what the parameters were, then compare those numbers to your tap water and only add a little tap water at a time, over the course of several hours to slowly acclimate them back to "normal" water. Did you test the green water first? The green water (presuming it was an algae bloom) was actually a good thing for the fish as it was keeping the water clean of nitrogenous waste and oxygenated. Since the filter had been off for an unknown period of time, it's good that you cleaned it good. Normally, cleaning a filter that good is not recommended but any of the good nitrifying bacteria in the filter would have died off with the filter not running after a couple of hours. Take your time in "cleaning" up the rest of the tank over the next couple of weeks. You can vacuum the gravel when doing another small 25% or less PWC but do not remove the gravel since it contains the majority of your nitrifying bacteria right now. You can scrape the algae off the front glass but leave it on the others. It will help with removing nitrogenous waste while your newly set up filter gets fully "cycled" which will take a couple of weeks. The tiger barbs should probably stay in the 20G since six of them pretty much fills up the bioload of a 20G tank. Read over the Mongabay profile for more details on them. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html Test the water in the 20G now and if it has a pH of 7.0 or higher and has sufficient GH and KH, you could add some snails to the tank (if you have snails in your other tanks) which would help with eating algae and other clean up chores. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vivian bradish Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] I rescued a fish tank, hope I am taking the right steps to save the fish I manage property and a new tenant was moving in. They had a 20 gallon fish tank that was less than half full of green water with 6 tiger barbs. There is a filter but not running and is extreemly disgustingly green and yellow. I shamed them into giving me the tank. It was sitting in the back of a pick up truck in the full sun here in Florida. When I got it home I cleaned up the filter with hot water and put in a new charcoal pad. However, I could not run it because the water level was way below the intake. I filled two buckets with water and added Amquel and PH up and put it into what little bit of water was still in the tank so I could get the level up to the intake tube. I did not take the old water out as I felt the fish needed some of that cycled water instead of all new water, was I right in assuming that? These poor fish were in a frantic state of swimming and bumping into the sides of the tank when I first got it. I did not know what else to do, except what I wrote above. Today the water is a quite a bit clearer. The fish are pretty much hiding behind the tank decorations. However they came out when I fed them and they did eat. I know I have to clean the gravel and the ornaments and scrub the algae off the inside of the tank. However, I do not want to stress the fish out anymore than they already are. I hope these tiger barbs are hearty fish. I would love to keep this tank going with more aggressive fish than I have in my passive tank. Any suggestions on what to do and what order to do it in? Should I wait a few days to do anything else so the fish can calm down? Help please, I do not want them to die. Thanks Viv Another question--My 40 gallon has Platys, black skirts, coreys, a pleco and quite a few Endlers. I really don't think I should put the barbs in there as I fear the Endlers would become food for the Barbs. Is it safe to assume that? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 12:21:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30546	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Temps

You can increase the surface agitation which will help cool off the tank by increasing the amount of evaporation. One way to do this is to lower the water level in the tank a little bit so the returning water from the filter causes more splashing. This increase surface agitation will also keep the O2 levels up in the tank as warmer water does not hold O2 as well as cooler water. If you have an air pump and air stone running on the tank, this will help and while it's safer to have an air pump above the water level of a tank, in your case, if you could put the air pump down near the floor (as long as it has an anti-siphon valve), the air pump would then be taking in cooler air and pumping the cooler air into the tank. Cooler air is heavier than warmer air so the air near the floor will generally be cooler than the air near the ceiling. This could be changed if the house is a raised house with little or no insulation under the flooring. You could continue to float the frozen bottle of water but you should probably do it all of the time, rather than just in the evening if you can alternate frozen bottles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Temps Question on temps: I live in Florida, keep my house around 78-79 degrees, but my tank keeps hovering around 82. How badly will this affect my tropical fish? So far, I have tetras, 2 mollies, three or four guppies, a couple of platies and one apple snail. I lost two guppies for unknown reasons this week...water levels were good, but water was just shy of 82. Been bringing it down artificially in the evenings with a frozen bottle of water in a ziplock bag, and that gets it down to about 80. It is not near a window..and moving it at this stage would be quite difficult, would rather not stress the fish if poss. Thanks alina (oh, and tank is 38-gal, is new, been set up about 7 weeks now) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 8:59:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 12:31:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30547	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes

I'm not sure it was good to do such large PWC with such drastically different water. As you can see, your pH dropped by a full point. That is too much, too fast. Hopefully your fish will not be affected since at least the pH is still in the basic range (above 7.0). It looks like the bottle water had a pH near 7.0, (possibly a little less than 7.0) since mixing 40% of the bottled water with the 9.0 tank changed it to 8.0. I haven't seen your answer to my previous reply about your substrate, rocks, etc. and your 48 hour tap water baseline test results but from what I've seen on your tap water baseline so far, it appears that something in your tank is causing the pH to rise. We'll know more with your test results tomorrow to see if the tank raised the pH again. Unless you plan on using bottled spring water all of the time, it's not good to use it only once in a while. Your fish will acclimate to your tap water once we figure out what is causing it to rise to pH 9.0 after it goes into your tank. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Okay, so last night I did a 40% water change and added bottled water instead of my tap water. I filtered it for a while and then this morning I added their medicine, quick cure and melafix. Here are my new water results, yesterdays is in the brackets. GH=9 (13) PH= 8 (9) Ammonia=0 (0) NO2-=.3 (1.6) What a change a water change will make! Both of my goldfish still have the ich pretty bad but the shark is doing great, minus the pop eye. I'm now sure if either goldfish will make it. My larger one is either constipated or getting ready to lay eggs but either way she is very sluggish and has a big belly. My smaller one, who I thought would pass a couple of days ago, is still hiding and laying on the bottom all the time. She comes up for a swim and then goes right back down. I moved the two mollies to a smaller tank since they were rough with the goldfish. They are doing great now. Thanks for all the info helping me with getting my tank in order. I'll be so happy when everything is constant for the most part and I dont have to search for fish every morning when I wake up. Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 12:43:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30548	From: Alison	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Hard Water

My tank gets rings around the perimeter from the hard water, I can't get it off, any tips?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30549	From: Suzy Smith	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes

Hi I agree with alot of what you said.  What wasn't said is that the most you should change water is 25 % and done at a daily change.  I worked in the pet fish industry and this is what I learned. while working there.  Good luck with your fish. --- On Fri, 9/26/08, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 12:15 PM Sarah, You parameters are looking a lot better, although that was a drastic change in pH; normally a stressful factor going through 1 full point. Don't mix meds now, but at the earliest opportunity 3 days after you're rid of the Ich, remove that medication and treat the shark for the pop-eye condition. While it can have several causes, if its bacterial induced try treating with either Kanamycin (SeaChem -- Kanaplex) or Minocycline (Mardel - Maracyn 2), both effective against this. If its viral, which is another possibility, it appears as though this is unfortunately untreatable, but the use of antibiotics is always a good move here in hopes its still caused by a bacterial pathogen (usually, Pseudomonas) . Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30550	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Hard Water

When doing your next PWC, after lowering the water level a few inches, take a rag and use plain white vinegar. You don't want the rag so wet that vinegar is dripping into your tank but just wet enough so that the acidic vinegar will break down the hard water buildup. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alison Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hard Water My tank gets rings around the perimeter from the hard water, I can't get it off, any tips? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 1:03:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30551	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank

Thanks Ray, Appreciate the info. Bill -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss@... Date: 9/26/2008 6:22:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank size -vs- Water in tank Bill, On top of what Lenny is pointing out, with your rocks, driftwood, etc. you also have to keep in mind that aquarium capacities are figured on the full dimensions of the tank, i.e., having your water column right up to the very top of the rim of the tank -- which no one would find very practical, resulting in everybody keeping their water lines at least an inch (or two?) below the very top, or below the actual tank capacity even if it were bare. This alone is why medication suppliers consider on a bit of leeway with the applications of most meds, with few exceptions. One exception that does come to mind, but still offers a slight amount of variance, is Clout which you need to be just a little more careful with in not overdosing. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30552	From: Saps Gal	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

First of all Thank-you to Lenny & Jerry for replying to my newbie post. I have taken note on your comments about being overstocked and will not add anything else for a long while but I will add that my water parameters are good, nil nitrites and ammonia, nitrates are 10ppm. With regards to my feather duster not opening, I have returned it to my lfs and they have exchanged it, the new one is open and blooming. Can anyone tell me what this might be though? on one of my LR there is a tiny circular feather like white thing which opens and moves like a duster crown but its only about 1/2cm in diameter, when anything goes near it, it closes up. Last week when the reddy brown stuff came out of the feather duster worm, there were a few of these small feathery objects in the tank and I was wondering if it was something to do with the stuff that came from the duster....any comments? Thanks in advance «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30553	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes

Hi Suzy, Sarah had a lot of water parameter issues a few days ago, and at that time did a 30% water change. Her nitrite was 1.6 and her ammonia was 1.4 -- very dangerous with her pH being 9.0. Lenny told her to get and to use Prime to detox the ammonia (convert it to ammonium) and to add salt. Instead, as you see she did a 40% water change. I did point out to her that this placed stress on the fish when it resulted in lowering the pH 1 full point (from 9.0 to 8.0) -- each 1/10th (0.1) of a point move results in a ten-fold change over the previous 0.1 number. Its a moot point to tell her to not make a 40% water change after the fact. This was already done. BTW, I'm pleased to see you've picked up some knowledge of caring for tropical fish while in the industry. You should then know that 40% water changes are not necessarily a maintenance operation that should not be done, but in Sarah's case it should not have and was somewhat dangerous to do (especially since she had the option of using Prime). Depending on your water parameters (and your knowledge of them) and how close your water source is to those parameters (and your knowledge of how much your water source will change/affect your water parameters), will depend on how much water you can safely change. I often change out up to 85% to 90% of the water, knowing that it will not change the pH (and more importantly, will not change the hardness which can otherwise affect the osmoregulatory system of the fish), as its done regularly, for reasons that I want growth inhibiting theromones to be kept an an absolute minimum when growing out fish. The fish thrive much better on large water changes -- provided this has been an ongoing mainstay of their maintenance -- much as fish in a river get a constant change of water every second, its parameters only changing gradually with the seasons. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30554	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Dora, By your last paragraph, it appears as though you may not have completely understood my post on salt when used for high nitrite and ammonia. The larger amount (2.4 teaspoons salt per gallon, added progressively) is only to be used if ammonia (and nitrite) poisoning has already set in -- to slowly counteract the detrimental effects of these nitrogenous wastes after they've been allowed to build up and permeate the body tissues of the fish. To use as an ongoing prophylatic in preventing these poisonings from ever happening in the first place, you need only to use 1/10th of that amount -- or about 1/4 teaspoon of salt per gallon (maximum) in your water column before the onset of higher ammonia and nitrite levels. To protect only against possible nitrite poisoning, you need to use even less -- or about a pinch of salt -- as Lenny pointed out, but if there's any possibility of your water parameters being elevated in both of these waste products, its best to use the slightly larger amount (1/8 to 1/4 tsp per Gallon). This token amount need not be removed from the water at any time, in fact to do so is to invite ammonia and nitrite poisoning if you suspect their levels may rise (perhaps during a power outage when your helpful bacteria cannot convert these wastes). At that time it would be prudent to add this amount of salt to your water. The larger amount (minimum of 2.4 tsp/Gal) should be removed -- as slowly as you added it -- after treatment of these poisonous effects, which may take up to two weeks. The amount of salt to be used to counteract the effects of ammonia is directly dependant upon the level of that ammonia. Luckily some fish (many Cichlids in particular) will tolerate up to 6 tsp/Gal; many Livebearers will also endure high salt volumes when coming from waters having higher TDS's. Mollies in particular will tolerate up to 8 tsp/Gal. As for your 1 tsp per gallon constant solution, as you may know this is unnecessary, and borderline dangerous to certain fish and especially to many plants. Some hobbyists insist on using 1 Tablespoonof salt per 5 gallons, and that is what you may be remembering . . . and which is still considered safe for Cory Catfish, Tetras, Loaches, Mormyrids ("Whales" and "Elephant Nose") and other species needing similar requirements. Too much more salt than this and it can become dangerous for them. Some Tetras (Cardinals, Neons, etc.) are less tolerant of salt than others. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30555	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

Since I'm not a SW tank keeper... only read about them on a regular basis... so I can't help as much but a Google search of ("feather duster" aquarium)(without brackets) found this lengthy well written article with lots of pics and references. It seems some of them reproduce quite easily so that is probably what you saw before. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/invert.htm At least I knew that LR meant Live Rock. LOL I think you still need to work on your nitrates. 10ppm seems to be higher than recommended for SW tanks. You may need to buy a nitrate absorbing resin filter additive to help remove the nitrates until your tank further matures and fully cycles. Look for one that is rechargeable to make it more cost effective. Hopefully some of the more experienced SW tank keepers will chime in soon. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? First of all Thank-you to Lenny & Jerry for replying to my newbie post. I have taken note on your comments about being overstocked and will not add anything else for a long while but I will add that my water parameters are good, nil nitrites and ammonia, nitrates are 10ppm. With regards to my feather duster not opening, I have returned it to my lfs and they have exchanged it, the new one is open and blooming. Can anyone tell me what this might be though? on one of my LR there is a tiny circular feather like white thing which opens and moves like a duster crown but its only about 1/2cm in diameter, when anything goes near it, it closes up. Last week when the reddy brown stuff came out of the feather duster worm, there were a few of these small feathery objects in the tank and I was wondering if it was something to do with the stuff that came from the duster....any comments? Thanks in advance «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 3:40:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30556	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

Hi, can you take a picture, Life Rock can come with so many thing , than it's very hard to tell with just a description. Jerry ....... Can anyone tell me what this might be though? on one of my LR there is a tiny circular feather like white thing which opens and moves like a duster crown but its only about 1/2cm in diameter, when anything goes near it, it closes up. Last week when the reddy brown stuff came out of the feather duster worm, there were a few of these small feathery objects in the tank and I was wondering if it was something to do with the stuff that came from the duster....any comments? Thanks in advance «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30557	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes

Ray, I added a stress coat + which converted the ammonia. When I did a 40% water change my ammonia level was 0. I had read that water changes were fine to do all the way to 50% which is why I did so much. I didnt realize when lenny said to do a 25% that he meant only 25 and not more. I just thought he meant to do atleast a 25%. I have kept a fishtank before but I was young and never even tested my water. This is all new to me as far as water changes and test kits. I just cleaned the tank every 2 months or so and filled it with all new water. I never would have imagined it was so in depth. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: sevenspringss@...: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:37:48 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Hi Suzy, Sarah had a lot of water parameter issues a few days ago, and at that time did a 30% water change. Her nitrite was 1.6 and her ammonia was 1.4 -- very dangerous with her pH being 9.0. Lenny told her to get and to use Prime to detox the ammonia (convert it to ammonium) and to add salt. Instead, as you see she did a 40% water change. I did point out to her that this placed stress on the fish when it resulted in lowering the pH 1 full point (from 9.0 to 8.0) -- each 1/10th (0.1) of a point move results in a ten-fold change over the previous 0.1 number. Its a moot point to tell her to not make a 40% water change after the fact. This was already done. BTW, I'm pleased to see you've picked up some knowledge of caring for tropical fish while in the industry. You should then know that 40% water changes are not necessarily a maintenance operation that should not be done, but in Sarah's case it should not have and was somewhat dangerous to do (especially since she had the option of using Prime). Depending on your water parameters (and your knowledge of them) and how close your water source is to those parameters (and your knowledge of how much your water source will change/affect your water parameters), will depend on how much water you can safely change. I often change out up to 85% to 90% of the water, knowing that it will not change the pH (and more importantly, will not change the hardness which can otherwise affect the osmoregulatory system of the fish), as its done regularly, for reasons that I want growth inhibiting theromones to be kept an an absolute minimum when growing out fish. The fish thrive much better on large water changes -- provided this has been an ongoing mainstay of their maintenance -- much as fish in a river get a constant change of water every second, its parameters only changing gradually with the seasons. Ray </HTML>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30558	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes

Yep... the science of fish keeping has dragged many fish keepers kicking and screaming into the 21st century. So much more has been learned about setting up a proper ecology in a closed system, especially for tanks without lots of live plants. For the relatively few beginners that learn how to start off with a planted tank, then the "Nitrogen Cycle" issues aren't as much of a worry since the plants utilize the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate but for new tanks that do not have a lot, or any, live plants, then understanding the "Nitrogen Cycle" is very important to keep from causing harm to our fish. It's a shame so many pet stores still do not understand how rough "cycling with fish" is on the fish and their customers but at least the internet has provided forums like this one where newbies can get brought up to speed. Another thing that is mentioned often is that the fish themselves were much hardier 20, 30, 40 years ago compared to today where they have often been inbred so much that they are much less hardy. Like Ray said, unless the incoming water and tank water have similar water chemistry and parameters, then sometimes even a 25% change might be too much. When the numbers are not known, then the most I would ever recommend is 25% but if I had known you were going to use bottle water, which more often is around 7.0 pH, compared to your tanks pH of 9.0, then I would not have recommended more than a 10% PWC so that the pH would not have changed by more than 0.2. We still need the 48 hour tap water baseline numbers to see if your tap is actually raising from 7.5 to 9.0. If it's not your tap, then there is something in your tank that is leaching and causing your pH to go up so high. Look back over my last couple of messages where I asked about what was in your tank, filter system, etc. to try and isolate the cause. If you go to my blog, on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see links to two free online fish keeping tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics... many which we've already gone over but going through them one step at a time is easier to learn than the crash course that you've gone through here. Both tutorials are very easy to read and understand but feel free to come back here with any questions you may have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:41 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Ray, I added a stress coat + which converted the ammonia. When I did a 40% water change my ammonia level was 0. I had read that water changes were fine to do all the way to 50% which is why I did so much. I didnt realize when lenny said to do a 25% that he meant only 25 and not more. I just thought he meant to do atleast a 25%. I have kept a fishtank before but I was young and never even tested my water. This is all new to me as far as water changes and test kits. I just cleaned the tank every 2 months or so and filled it with all new water. I never would have imagined it was so in depth. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> : Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:37:48 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Hi Suzy, Sarah had a lot of water parameter issues a few days ago, and at that time did a 30% water change. Her nitrite was 1.6 and her ammonia was 1.4 -- very dangerous with her pH being 9.0. Lenny told her to get and to use Prime to detox the ammonia (convert it to ammonium) and to add salt. Instead, as you see she did a 40% water change. I did point out to her that this placed stress on the fish when it resulted in lowering the pH 1 full point (from 9.0 to 8.0) -- each 1/10th (0.1) of a point move results in a ten-fold change over the previous 0.1 number. Its a moot point to tell her to not make a 40% water change after the fact. This was already done. BTW, I'm pleased to see you've picked up some knowledge of caring for tropical fish while in the industry. You should then know that 40% water changes are not necessarily a maintenance operation that should not be done, but in Sarah's case it should not have and was somewhat dangerous to do (especially since she had the option of using Prime). Depending on your water parameters (and your knowledge of them) and how close your water source is to those parameters (and your knowledge of how much your water source will change/affect your water parameters), will depend on how much water you can safely change. I often change out up to 85% to 90% of the water, knowing that it will not change the pH (and more importantly, will not change the hardness which can otherwise affect the osmoregulatory system of the fish), as its done regularly, for reasons that I want growth inhibiting theromones to be kept an an absolute minimum when growing out fish. The fish thrive much better on large water changes -- provided this has been an ongoing mainstay of their maintenance -- much as fish in a river get a constant change of water every second, its parameters only changing gradually with the seasons. Ray </HTML>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 3:46:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 4:05:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30559	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes

Hi Sarah, Well there is a bit more to proper fish keeping than some people may at first realize, when you say its unexpectedly more in-depth, but that's what we're here for. When unsure -- just ask (even when you're not unsure -- feel free to ask anyway, it never hurts). Not to ask, and to go ahead and do something that's not completely understood, only to ask us what to do to correct it once its done has gotten many hobbyists here into trouble with their fish. Now, as you must have gathered from my post, provided your new (source) water closely matches the parameters of your tank water, there's no danger in changing out even much larger quantities than you did. But whenever using a different source of new water -- which may very possibly have different parameters than your aquarium water -- always check (test) it first. If its much different, then you know that doing large water changes will change the parameters of your aquarium water, possibly detrimentally so. Unless you're unaware that water may have different properties when obtained from different sources, something like this should not really be considered as being "in-depth," as it just makes for common sense. Most housewives know to used distilled water for their clothes iron (if people still iron any of their clothes?), and we know there are such products on the supermarket shelf as mineral water and spring water -- both of these possibly being different (some spring water producers use tap water -- and that has been documented). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30560	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

Sarah, in my first email I suggest you to read and read, Leny point you to a web site write by Julian Sprung, he is the guy in reef tank ( Julian not Leny J ) ( because when you start to use live rock and coral we call it reef tank, not SW J , So Julian have 2 highly detailed and technical book , The Reef Aquarium , vol. 1 and 3 the 3 is more recent and cover the new technology. But it's may be not the most easy book to read, I will suggest to you, the book " The Nano-Reef Handbook " by Brightwell, all true it's a book about aquarium under 15 gal. It's a very easy and pleasant book to read. You have also the book " Marine Reef Aquarium Handbook " by Goldstein, get the second edition, Do not buy book who are 4 or 5 years old , in Reef you need the new technology. It's important to read few book on the subject, in Reef, you will not find in website complete information who will give you a general wide spectrum like those book. Jerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30561	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

If you don't have time to make it to the library or your library doesn't carry the books that Jerry recommends, or they aren't in your budget, then remember that Google Books is always an options. I did a Google Book search and unfortunately neither of the books that Jerry mentioned are available for free preview but here are a couple of others that were. These are not complete previews but usually cover around 80% of the books since they are still trying to sell the books for the authors also. In the contents and Index sections, topics in blue are live links to the page in the book that is online. If in black, then that page isn't online. Marine Reef Aquarium Handbook by Dr. Robert J. Goldstein http://books.google.com/books?id=V9VWvl76Q4cC <http://books.google.com/books?id=V9VWvl76Q4cC&printsec=frontcover> &printsec=frontcover Saltwater Aquariums For Dummies (No pun intended.. lol.. but the "Dummies" book series are often helpful) http://books.google.com/books?id=RLpmmXQuxBcC <http://books.google.com/books?id=RLpmmXQuxBcC&printsec=frontcover> &printsec=frontcover Of course, you can go to http://books.Google.com and find many more. Just look for the "Limited Preview" under the descriptions in your list of hits. Full Previews are usually only offered on older books that are out of print completely. Some of them are quite interesting for comparing fish keeping in the 1800's and 1900's compared with today. Here's my initial book search and you will see "No preview available" for "The Reef Aquarium" that Jerry recommended but there are several others besides the two I mentioned above that do have previews available. http://books.google.com/books?ie=UTF-8 <http://books.google.com/books?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22The%20Reef%20Aquarium% 22&um=1&sa=N&tab=wp> &oe=UTF-8&q=%22The%20Reef%20Aquarium%22&um=1&sa=N&tab=wp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? Sarah, in my first email I suggest you to read and read, Leny point you to a web site write by Julian Sprung, he is the guy in reef tank ( Julian not Leny J ) ( because when you start to use live rock and coral we call it reef tank, not SW J , So Julian have 2 highly detailed and technical book , The Reef Aquarium , vol. 1 and 3 the 3 is more recent and cover the new technology. But it's may be not the most easy book to read, I will suggest to you, the book " The Nano-Reef Handbook " by Brightwell, all true it's a book about aquarium under 15 gal. It's a very easy and pleasant book to read. You have also the book " Marine Reef Aquarium Handbook " by Goldstein, get the second edition, Do not buy book who are 4 or 5 years old , in Reef you need the new technology. It's important to read few book on the subject, in Reef, you will not find in website complete information who will give you a general wide spectrum like those book. Jerry ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 4:13:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 4:26:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30562	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

Sorry, Julie not Sarah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30563	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

This is one I put on my first email : A reef tank of 35 gal. cost over $ 1500 , so I guess a book of 30 $ is not over budget ? even at 300 $ it's a good investment, if it's save you your 500 to 600 $ value of coral collection. Marine Reef Aquarium Handbook by Dr. Robert J. Goldstein http://books.google.com/books?id=V9VWvl76Q4cC <http://books.google.com/books?id=V9VWvl76Q4cC&printsec=frontcover> &printsec=frontcover

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30564	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

True... but most people squeeze into new hobbies with limited budgets... usually because they were led to believe it wasn't going to cost much by 3rd parties... so they might already be way over their expected budget so if they can save 30 bucks here and there or utilize a free e-book while waiting for their next pay check, at least it can help a little. If fish stores and pet stores told people all that was entailed in fish keeping from the start, I bet 90% of people would not get involved. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? This is one I put on my first email : A reef tank of 35 gal. cost over $ 1500 , so I guess a book of 30 $ is not over budget ? even at 300 $ it's a good investment, if it's save you your 500 to 600 $ value of coral collection. Marine Reef Aquarium Handbook by Dr. Robert J. Goldstein http://books.google.com/books?id=V9VWvl76Q4cC <http://books.google.com/books?id=V9VWvl76Q4cC> <http://books.google.com/books?id=V9VWvl76Q4cC&printsec=frontcover _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 5:19:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30565	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Ich! What do you reccomend.

One of my sword tails is showing ich on the top of her body and spreading out from around the dorsal fin. Now its only a matter of time before the rest get it. I keep my aquarium at around 78 - 80, but there has been some temperature fluctuation in the house because of the cold nights which dropped the aquarium down to 72 one morning. My 2 gouramis aren't very active (and don't seem to be eating) and sitting on the bottom of the aquarium and 2 guppies are doing the same. For now that is all. My ammonia is around .5 now. I haven't tested anything else yet. should I raise the temperature of the tank? What medications do you reccomend? As far as a hospital tank, I can't afford one yet so I'm gonna have to treat the whole tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30566	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes

MY 48 HOUR water tests are as follows; ph 7 no2- <.3 ammonia 0 GH 11 so, no its not my water but my gh is going down , thats a plus. Here is what is in my tank: 35 gallon acrylic tank, pea pebbles on bottom, medium size drift wood in middle, two small aquarium orniments and two medium sized fake plants. I have a brand new bio wheel marineland filter and a 8 inch bubble stone with medium rate of bubbles going. I have no idea why my ph would be raised to high. I've gotta go to work but when I get home I'm gonna test my small tank and see what its at. it has been going for 3-4 months now. sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 16:05:37 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Yep... the science of fish keeping has dragged many fish keepers kicking andscreaming into the 21st century. So much more has been learned about setting up a proper ecology in a closedsystem, especially for tanks without lots of live plants. For therelatively few beginners that learn how to start off with a planted tank,then the "Nitrogen Cycle" issues aren't as much of a worry since the plantsutilize the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate but for new tanks that do not have alot, or any, live plants, then understanding the "Nitrogen Cycle" is veryimportant to keep from causing harm to our fish. It's a shame so many pet stores still do not understand how rough "cyclingwith fish" is on the fish and their customers but at least the internet hasprovided forums like this one where newbies can get brought up to speed.Another thing that is mentioned often is that the fish themselves were muchhardier 20, 30, 40 years ago compared to today where they have often beeninbred so much that they are much less hardy.Like Ray said, unless the incoming water and tank water have similar waterchemistry and parameters, then sometimes even a 25% change might be toomuch. When the numbers are not known, then the most I would ever recommendis 25% but if I had known you were going to use bottle water, which moreoften is around 7.0 pH, compared to your tanks pH of 9.0, then I would nothave recommended more than a 10% PWC so that the pH would not have changedby more than 0.2.We still need the 48 hour tap water baseline numbers to see if your tap isactually raising from 7.5 to 9.0. If it's not your tap, then there issomething in your tank that is leaching and causing your pH to go up sohigh. Look back over my last couple of messages where I asked about whatwas in your tank, filter system, etc. to try and isolate the cause.If you go to my blog, on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see linksto two free online fish keeping tutorials that will walk you through all ofthe basics... many which we've already gone over but going through them onestep at a time is easier to learn than the crash course that you've gonethrough here. Both tutorials are very easy to read and understand but feelfree to come back here with any questions you may have.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:41 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishesRay, I added a stress coat + which converted the ammonia. When I did a 40%water change my ammonia level was 0. I had read that water changes were fineto do all the way to 50% which is why I did so much. I didnt realize whenlenny said to do a 25% that he meant only 25 and not more. I just thought hemeant to do atleast a 25%. I have kept a fishtank before but I was young andnever even tested my water. This is all new to me as far as water changesand test kits. I just cleaned the tank every 2 months or so and filled itwith all new water. I never would have imagined it was so in depth.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : sevenspringss@...<mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> : Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:37:48-0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishesHi Suzy, Sarah had a lot of water parameter issues a few days ago, and atthat time did a 30% water change. Her nitrite was 1.6 and her ammonia was1.4 -- very dangerous with her pH being 9.0. Lenny told her to get and touse Prime to detox the ammonia (convert it to ammonium) and to add salt.Instead, as you see she did a 40% water change. I did point out to her thatthis placed stress on the fish when it resulted in lowering the pH 1 fullpoint (from 9.0 to 8.0) -- each 1/10th (0.1) of a point move results in aten-fold change over the previous 0.1 number. Its a moot point to tell herto not make a 40% water change after the fact. This was already done. BTW,I'm pleased to see you've picked up some knowledge of caring for tropicalfish while in the industry. You should then know that 40% water changes arenot necessarily a maintenance operation that should not be done, but inSarah's case it should not have and was somewhat dangerous to do (especiallysince she had the option of using Prime). Depending on your water parameters(and your knowledge of them) and how close your water source is to thoseparameters (and your knowledge of how much your water source willchange/affect your water parameters), will depend on how much water you cansafely change. I often change out up to 85% to 90% of the water, knowingthat it will not change the pH (and more importantly, will not change thehardness which can otherwise affect the osmoregulatory system of the fish),as its done regularly, for reasons that I want growth inhibiting theromonesto be kept an an absolute minimum when growing out fish. The fish thrivemuch better on large water changes -- provided this has been an ongoingmainstay of their maintenance -- much as fish in a river get a constantchange of water every second, its parameters only changing gradually withthe seasons. Ray </HTML>[Non-text portions of this message have beenremoved][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008Tested on: 9/26/2008 3:46:45 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008Tested on: 9/26/2008 4:05:36 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30567	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Increase the temp to a stable 82 degrees F, Ich does not survive in warm water. Also a bit of salt will improve the overall health of your fish too. 1 teaspoon of salt per 10 gallons. Remember the white spots you see is only one phase of the Ich parasite’s life cycle. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. One of my sword tails is showing ich on the top of her body and spreading out from around the dorsal fin. Now its only a matter of time before the rest get it. I keep my aquarium at around 78 - 80, but there has been some temperature fluctuation in the house because of the cold nights which dropped the aquarium down to 72 one morning. My 2 gouramis aren't very active (and don't seem to be eating) and sitting on the bottom of the aquarium and 2 guppies are doing the same. For now that is all. My ammonia is around .5 now. I haven't tested anything else yet. should I raise the temperature of the tank? What medications do you reccomend? As far as a hospital tank, I can't afford one yet so I'm gonna have to treat the whole tank. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30568	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

If it was to start again I will may be in the 90 % too . :))))) it's a huge hole in the pocket this hobby, actually sometime I'm not sure it leave enough money to buy the pants .... What you want instead of Tommy Hil. jeans I wear the one in special at Wal-Mart Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? True... but most people squeeze into new hobbies with limited budgets... usually because they were led to believe it wasn't going to cost much by 3rd parties... so they might already be way over their expected budget so if they can save 30 bucks here and there or utilize a free e-book while waiting for their next pay check, at least it can help a little. If fish stores and pet stores told people all that was entailed in fish keeping from the start, I bet 90% of people would not get involved. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? This is one I put on my first email : A reef tank of 35 gal. cost over $ 1500 , so I guess a book of 30 $ is not over budget ? even at 300 $ it's a good investment, if it's save you your 500 to 600 $ value of coral collection. Marine Reef Aquarium Handbook by Dr. Robert J. Goldstein http://books.google.com/books?id=V9VWvl76Q4cC <http://books.google.com/books?id=V9VWvl76Q4cC> <http://books.google.com/books?id=V9VWvl76Q4cC&printsec=frontcover _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 5:19:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30569	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

I will let other tell you what treatment to do, because me I will fix the problem of the tank and forgot the fish. BUT to avoid it next time, you should have leave the sword at the store, and buy a heater instead, and more important cycle the tank. Let see a scenario, you treat the fish for the ich. They get better, and the next week the water plunge at 68 and the ich came back *** see the ote ... You have to fix the problem of the heater too. And what if it's the ammonia who cause the ich..? And from what I can read from your post, I'm pretty sure you will add other fish soon *** Note you have supposedly a certain immunity according to some source than a fish develop, after the first time it get ich, but honestly I have nothing that show me than it's true Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. One of my sword tails is showing ich on the top of her body and spreading out from around the dorsal fin. Now its only a matter of time before the rest get it. I keep my aquarium at around 78 - 80, but there has been some temperature fluctuation in the house because of the cold nights which dropped the aquarium down to 72 one morning. My 2 gouramis aren't very active (and don't seem to be eating) and sitting on the bottom of the aquarium and 2 guppies are doing the same. For now that is all. My ammonia is around .5 now. I haven't tested anything else yet. should I raise the temperature of the tank? What medications do you reccomend? As far as a hospital tank, I can't afford one yet so I'm gonna have to treat the whole tank. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30570	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Henry, some new Ich resist to 88'F and the temperature have to be rise to 90'F, of course only few fish can survive at this temperature, Clown Loach, Discus, Silver Dollar, Angel, no problem, ***** Chris do not increase your temperature at 90' ***** Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:05 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. Increase the temp to a stable 82 degrees F, Ich does not survive in warm water. Also a bit of salt will improve the overall health of your fish too. 1 teaspoon of salt per 10 gallons. Remember the white spots you see is only one phase of the Ich parasite's life cycle. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. One of my sword tails is showing ich on the top of her body and spreading out from around the dorsal fin. Now its only a matter of time before the rest get it. I keep my aquarium at around 78 - 80, but there has been some temperature fluctuation in the house because of the cold nights which dropped the aquarium down to 72 one morning. My 2 gouramis aren't very active (and don't seem to be eating) and sitting on the bottom of the aquarium and 2 guppies are doing the same. For now that is all. My ammonia is around .5 now. I haven't tested anything else yet. should I raise the temperature of the tank? What medications do you reccomend? As far as a hospital tank, I can't afford one yet so I'm gonna have to treat the whole tank. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30571	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes

Just to clarify for me and others... those are your 48 hour "tap" water tests, not tank, so your tap water comes out the tap at 7.5 and after 48 hours, goes down to 7.0. That is a more typical pH response from tap water from public utilities. Now you also know that your tap water baseline pH is 7.0 for your tank(s). The reason this happens is that public utilities add buffers to the water to raise the pH above 7.0 so that it does not become acidic (below 7.0) in the city pipes which would cause higher levels of corrosion over the life of the pipes. Your GH is at a good level but you should also find out what your KH level is. I don't think this is an issue in your pH spike in your tank but it would be interesting to know the KH level. From what I remember, you just added the driftwood, but the tank was testing 9.0 pH prior to that so it's likely NOT something leaching from the driftwood. Normally, driftwood would slowly lower the pH when it releases tannins and then with the biological action in the driftwood but I guess there is always a chance that someone soaked driftwood in a high KH level solution and then that KH could leach out but since your pH was already high in your tank prior to the driftwood, that is not likely either. Where did you get your "pea pebbles"? You may want to remove some of them and do an acid test on them to see if they bubble which means they could be leaching but even then, they shouldn't raise the pH from 7.0 to 9.0 that fast. Normally, pea gravel is a good substrate to use and does not leach but there's always a chance you got a sub-standard batch that has some softer limestone based pebbles. Is the bubble stone deteriorating in any way? Was the bubble stone new or used when you first put it in the tank? I'm not even sure what bubble stones are made of but like above, if it's sub-standard, I'm guessing it could deteriorate and leach also. What kind of aquarium ornaments do you have? Did you get them from a reputable fish/pet store? Even then, there's no guarantee if the items are imported as we've seen with so many imported pet products in recent years. See if you can easily score or scrape the decorations with your fingernail to see if they are solid or possibly something that could be leaching. I'm kind of grasping as straws with some of the above ideas because nothing is jumping right out. You may have to remove things one at a time, do a series of PWC's and wait and see if the pH stays stable or starts to rise again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 5:40 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes MY 48 HOUR water tests are as follows; ph 7 no2- <.3 ammonia 0 GH 11 so, no its not my water but my gh is going down , thats a plus. Here is what is in my tank: 35 gallon acrylic tank, pea pebbles on bottom, medium size drift wood in middle, two small aquarium orniments and two medium sized fake plants. I have a brand new bio wheel marineland filter and a 8 inch bubble stone with medium rate of bubbles going. I have no idea why my ph would be raised to high. I've gotta go to work but when I get home I'm gonna test my small tank and see what its at. it has been going for 3-4 months now. sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri, 26 Sep 2008 16:05:37 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Yep... the science of fish keeping has dragged many fish keepers kicking andscreaming into the 21st century. So much more has been learned about setting up a proper ecology in a closedsystem, especially for tanks without lots of live plants. For therelatively few beginners that learn how to start off with a planted tank,then the "Nitrogen Cycle" issues aren't as much of a worry since the plantsutilize the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate but for new tanks that do not have alot, or any, live plants, then understanding the "Nitrogen Cycle" is veryimportant to keep from causing harm to our fish. It's a shame so many pet stores still do not understand how rough "cyclingwith fish" is on the fish and their customers but at least the internet hasprovided forums like this one where newbies can get brought up to speed.Another thing that is mentioned often is that the fish themselves were muchhardier 20, 30, 40 years ago compared to today where they have often beeninbred so much that they are much less hardy.Like Ray said, unless the incoming water and tank water have similar waterchemistry and parameters, then sometimes even a 25% change might be toomuch. When the numbers are not known, then the most I would ever recommendis 25% but if I had known you were going to use bottle water, which moreoften is around 7.0 pH, compared to your tanks pH of 9.0, then I would nothave recommended more than a 10% PWC so that the pH would not have changedby more than 0.2.We still need the 48 hour tap water baseline numbers to see if your tap isactually raising from 7.5 to 9.0. If it's not your tap, then there issomething in your tank that is leaching and causing your pH to go up sohigh. Look back over my last couple of messages where I asked about whatwas in your tank, filter system, etc. to try and isolate the cause.If you go to my blog, on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see linksto two free online fish keeping tutorials that will walk you through all ofthe basics... many which we've already gone over but going through them onestep at a time is easier to learn than the crash course that you've gonethrough here. Both tutorials are very easy to read and understand but feelfree to come back here with any questions you may have.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:41 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishesRay, I added a stress coat + which converted the ammonia. When I did a 40%water change my ammonia level was 0. I had read that water changes were fineto do all the way to 50% which is why I did so much. I didnt realize whenlenny said to do a 25% that he meant only 25 and not more. I just thought hemeant to do atleast a 25%. I have kept a fishtank before but I was young andnever even tested my water. This is all new to me as far as water changesand test kits. I just cleaned the tank every 2 months or so and filled itwith all new water. I never would have imagined it was so in depth.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> : Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:37:48-0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishesHi Suzy, Sarah had a lot of water parameter issues a few days ago, and atthat time did a 30% water change. Her nitrite was 1.6 and her ammonia was1.4 -- very dangerous with her pH being 9.0. Lenny told her to get and touse Prime to detox the ammonia (convert it to ammonium) and to add salt.Instead, as you see she did a 40% water change. I did point out to her thatthis placed stress on the fish when it resulted in lowering the pH 1 fullpoint (from 9.0 to 8.0) -- each 1/10th (0.1) of a point move results in aten-fold change over the previous 0.1 number. Its a moot point to tell herto not make a 40% water change after the fact. This was already done. BTW,I'm pleased to see you've picked up some knowledge of caring for tropicalfish while in the industry. You should then know that 40% water changes arenot necessarily a maintenance operation that should not be done, but inSarah's case it should not have and was somewhat dangerous to do (especiallysince she had the option of using Prime). Depending on your water parameters(and your knowledge of them) and how close your water source is to thoseparameters (and your knowledge of how much your water source willchange/affect your water parameters), will depend on how much water you cansafely change. I often change out up to 85% to 90% of the water, knowingthat it will not change the pH (and more importantly, will not change thehardness which can otherwise affect the osmoregulatory system of the fish),as its done regularly, for reasons that I want growth inhibiting theromonesto be kept an an absolute minimum when growing out fish. The fish thrivemuch better on large water changes -- provided this has been an ongoingmainstay of their maintenance -- much as fish in a river get a constantchange of water every second, its parameters only changing gradually withthe seasons. Ray </HTML>[Non-text portions of this message have beenremoved][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008Tested on: 9/26/2008 3:46:45 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008Tested on: 9/26/2008 4:05:36 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 5:59:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 6:54:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30572	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: High KH

I bought an API Kh test kit today and started testing my tanks. Much to my Surprise, they tested outside the parameters if the test kit. It took 25 drops for the water to turn yellow & the chart only goes up to12 drops or 412 ppm How fast should I lower the Kh and what is the best way to do it ? Bill -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/26/2008 2:05:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Yep... the science of fish keeping has dragged many fish keepers kicking and screaming into the 21st century. So much more has been learned about setting up a proper ecology in a closed system, especially for tanks without lots of live plants. For the relatively few beginners that learn how to start off with a planted tank, then the "Nitrogen Cycle" issues aren't as much of a worry since the plants utilize the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate but for new tanks that do not have a lot, or any, live plants, then understanding the "Nitrogen Cycle" is very important to keep from causing harm to our fish. It's a shame so many pet stores still do not understand how rough "cycling with fish" is on the fish and their customers but at least the internet has provided forums like this one where newbies can get brought up to speed. Another thing that is mentioned often is that the fish themselves were much hardier 20, 30, 40 years ago compared to today where they have often been inbred so much that they are much less hardy. Like Ray said, unless the incoming water and tank water have similar water chemistry and parameters, then sometimes even a 25% change might be too much. When the numbers are not known, then the most I would ever recommend is 25% but if I had known you were going to use bottle water, which more often is around 7.0 pH, compared to your tanks pH of 9.0, then I would not have recommended more than a 10% PWC so that the pH would not have changed by more than 0.2. We still need the 48 hour tap water baseline numbers to see if your tap is actually raising from 7.5 to 9.0. If it's not your tap, then there is something in your tank that is leaching and causing your pH to go up so high. Look back over my last couple of messages where I asked about what was in your tank, filter system, etc. to try and isolate the cause. If you go to my blog, on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see links to two free online fish keeping tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics... many which we've already gone over but going through them one step at a time is easier to learn than the crash course that you've gone through here. Both tutorials are very easy to read and understand but feel free to come back here with any questions you may have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:41 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Ray, I added a stress coat + which converted the ammonia. When I did a 40% water change my ammonia level was 0. I had read that water changes were fine to do all the way to 50% which is why I did so much. I didnt realize when lenny said to do a 25% that he meant only 25 and not more. I just thought he meant to do atleast a 25%. I have kept a fishtank before but I was young and never even tested my water. This is all new to me as far as water changes and test kits. I just cleaned the tank every 2 months or so and filled it with all new water. I never would have imagined it was so in depth. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> : Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:37:48 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Hi Suzy, Sarah had a lot of water parameter issues a few days ago, and at that time did a 30% water change. Her nitrite was 1.6 and her ammonia was 1.4 -- very dangerous with her pH being 9.0. Lenny told her to get and to use Prime to detox the ammonia (convert it to ammonium) and to add salt. Instead, as you see she did a 40% water change. I did point out to her that this placed stress on the fish when it resulted in lowering the pH 1 full point (from 9.0 to 8.0) -- each 1/10th (0.1) of a point move results in a ten-fold change over the previous 0.1 number. Its a moot point to tell her to not make a 40% water change after the fact. This was already done. BTW, I'm pleased to see you've picked up some knowledge of caring for tropical fish while in the industry. You should then know that 40% water changes are not necessarily a maintenance operation that should not be done, but in Sarah's case it should not have and was somewhat dangerous to do (especially since she had the option of using Prime). Depending on your water parameters (and your knowledge of them) and how close your water source is to those parameters (and your knowledge of how much your water source will change/affect your water parameters), will depend on how much water you can safely change. I often change out up to 85% to 90% of the water, knowing that it will not change the pH (and more importantly, will not change the hardness which can otherwise affect the osmoregulatory system of the fish), as its done regularly, for reasons that I want growth inhibiting theromones to be kept an an absolute minimum when growing out fish. The fish thrive much better on large water changes -- provided this has been an ongoing mainstay of their maintenance -- much as fish in a river get a constant change of water every second, its parameters only changing gradually with the seasons. Ray </HTML>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 3:46:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 4:05:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30573	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Cris , if I'm not mistake, your tank do not have gravel at the bottom ?, do you have a filter. ? , I hope so, what brand and type you have, A tank to cycle need substrate of a suficient media holding filter capability , to host the nitrifying bacteria. As for your Ich, if your tank do not have gravel, it's simple, you syphon the bottom of the tank every 12 hours, until you see no more white spot, and IMPORTANT , you continue few day after. The ich reproduce in water to make new one that will install themself on the fish, doying the syphoning , it will remove the eggs , who are at the bottom of the tank. ( ok it's not simple like that , but I want keep it simple , so i put aside the Trophozoites, Trophont, Tomites, etc. ) Jerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: High KH

Ummm.. I can honestly say I've never seen a KH level that high unless someone messed up when raising it. Did you add Baking Soda or other carbonate based additive to raise your pH or KH in the past? You need to test your tap water... the 48 hour baseline test to see if you are getting that high of KH out the tap... see my blog for details if you haven't been reading other threads out here. If it's not coming out the tap, then it's something in the tank that's leaching. I just posted to another member with a high pH on things to check. What are your other tank and tap water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH, GH, temperature? What kind of fish do you have? I'm not sure of any that prefer that high of a KH level but I'm sure there must be some species somewhere that do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: High KH I bought an API Kh test kit today and started testing my tanks. Much to my Surprise, they tested outside the parameters if the test kit. It took 25 drops for the water to turn yellow & the chart only goes up to12 drops or 412 ppm How fast should I lower the Kh and what is the best way to do it ? Bill -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/26/2008 2:05:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Yep... the science of fish keeping has dragged many fish keepers kicking and screaming into the 21st century. So much more has been learned about setting up a proper ecology in a closed system, especially for tanks without lots of live plants. For the relatively few beginners that learn how to start off with a planted tank, then the "Nitrogen Cycle" issues aren't as much of a worry since the plants utilize the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate but for new tanks that do not have a lot, or any, live plants, then understanding the "Nitrogen Cycle" is very important to keep from causing harm to our fish. It's a shame so many pet stores still do not understand how rough "cycling with fish" is on the fish and their customers but at least the internet has provided forums like this one where newbies can get brought up to speed. Another thing that is mentioned often is that the fish themselves were much hardier 20, 30, 40 years ago compared to today where they have often been inbred so much that they are much less hardy. Like Ray said, unless the incoming water and tank water have similar water chemistry and parameters, then sometimes even a 25% change might be too much. When the numbers are not known, then the most I would ever recommend is 25% but if I had known you were going to use bottle water, which more often is around 7.0 pH, compared to your tanks pH of 9.0, then I would not have recommended more than a 10% PWC so that the pH would not have changed by more than 0.2. We still need the 48 hour tap water baseline numbers to see if your tap is actually raising from 7.5 to 9.0. If it's not your tap, then there is something in your tank that is leaching and causing your pH to go up so high. Look back over my last couple of messages where I asked about what was in your tank, filter system, etc. to try and isolate the cause. If you go to my blog, on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see links to two free online fish keeping tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics... many which we've already gone over but going through them one step at a time is easier to learn than the crash course that you've gone through here. Both tutorials are very easy to read and understand but feel free to come back here with any questions you may have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:41 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Ray, I added a stress coat + which converted the ammonia. When I did a 40% water change my ammonia level was 0. I had read that water changes were fine to do all the way to 50% which is why I did so much. I didnt realize when lenny said to do a 25% that he meant only 25 and not more. I just thought he meant to do atleast a 25%. I have kept a fishtank before but I was young and never even tested my water. This is all new to me as far as water changes and test kits. I just cleaned the tank every 2 months or so and filled it with all new water. I never would have imagined it was so in depth. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> : Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:37:48 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Hi Suzy, Sarah had a lot of water parameter issues a few days ago, and at that time did a 30% water change. Her nitrite was 1.6 and her ammonia was 1.4 -- very dangerous with her pH being 9.0. Lenny told her to get and to use Prime to detox the ammonia (convert it to ammonium) and to add salt. Instead, as you see she did a 40% water change. I did point out to her that this placed stress on the fish when it resulted in lowering the pH 1 full point (from 9.0 to 8.0) -- each 1/10th (0.1) of a point move results in a ten-fold change over the previous 0.1 number. Its a moot point to tell her to not make a 40% water change after the fact. This was already done. BTW, I'm pleased to see you've picked up some knowledge of caring for tropical fish while in the industry. You should then know that 40% water changes are not necessarily a maintenance operation that should not be done, but in Sarah's case it should not have and was somewhat dangerous to do (especially since she had the option of using Prime). Depending on your water parameters (and your knowledge of them) and how close your water source is to those parameters (and your knowledge of how much your water source will change/affect your water parameters), will depend on how much water you can safely change. I often change out up to 85% to 90% of the water, knowing that it will not change the pH (and more importantly, will not change the hardness which can otherwise affect the osmoregulatory system of the fish), as its done regularly, for reasons that I want growth inhibiting theromones to be kept an an absolute minimum when growing out fish. The fish thrive much better on large water changes -- provided this has been an ongoing mainstay of their maintenance -- much as fish in a river get a constant change of water every second, its parameters only changing gradually with the seasons. Ray </HTML>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 3:46:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 4:05:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 7:03:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 7:08:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30575	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: High KH

Hello Bill, so it will bring it to over 800, it's imposible, before go more far in the search of the problem, what is the Gh of your aquarium ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Scott" <w.j.scott@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: High KH I bought an API Kh test kit today and started testing my tanks. Much to my Surprise, they tested outside the parameters if the test kit. It took 25 drops for the water to turn yellow & the chart only goes up to12 drops or 412 ppm How fast should I lower the Kh and what is the best way to do it ? Bill -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/26/2008 2:05:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Yep... the science of fish keeping has dragged many fish keepers kicking and screaming into the 21st century. So much more has been learned about setting up a proper ecology in a closed system, especially for tanks without lots of live plants. For the relatively few beginners that learn how to start off with a planted tank, then the "Nitrogen Cycle" issues aren't as much of a worry since the plants utilize the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate but for new tanks that do not have a lot, or any, live plants, then understanding the "Nitrogen Cycle" is very important to keep from causing harm to our fish. It's a shame so many pet stores still do not understand how rough "cycling with fish" is on the fish and their customers but at least the internet has provided forums like this one where newbies can get brought up to speed. Another thing that is mentioned often is that the fish themselves were much hardier 20, 30, 40 years ago compared to today where they have often been inbred so much that they are much less hardy. Like Ray said, unless the incoming water and tank water have similar water chemistry and parameters, then sometimes even a 25% change might be too much. When the numbers are not known, then the most I would ever recommend is 25% but if I had known you were going to use bottle water, which more often is around 7.0 pH, compared to your tanks pH of 9.0, then I would not have recommended more than a 10% PWC so that the pH would not have changed by more than 0.2. We still need the 48 hour tap water baseline numbers to see if your tap is actually raising from 7.5 to 9.0. If it's not your tap, then there is something in your tank that is leaching and causing your pH to go up so high. Look back over my last couple of messages where I asked about what was in your tank, filter system, etc. to try and isolate the cause. If you go to my blog, on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see links to two free online fish keeping tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics... many which we've already gone over but going through them one step at a time is easier to learn than the crash course that you've gone through here. Both tutorials are very easy to read and understand but feel free to come back here with any questions you may have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:41 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Ray, I added a stress coat + which converted the ammonia. When I did a 40% water change my ammonia level was 0. I had read that water changes were fine to do all the way to 50% which is why I did so much. I didnt realize when lenny said to do a 25% that he meant only 25 and not more. I just thought he meant to do atleast a 25%. I have kept a fishtank before but I was young and never even tested my water. This is all new to me as far as water changes and test kits. I just cleaned the tank every 2 months or so and filled it with all new water. I never would have imagined it was so in depth. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> : Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:37:48 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Hi Suzy, Sarah had a lot of water parameter issues a few days ago, and at that time did a 30% water change. Her nitrite was 1.6 and her ammonia was 1.4 -- very dangerous with her pH being 9.0. Lenny told her to get and to use Prime to detox the ammonia (convert it to ammonium) and to add salt. Instead, as you see she did a 40% water change. I did point out to her that this placed stress on the fish when it resulted in lowering the pH 1 full point (from 9.0 to 8.0) -- each 1/10th (0.1) of a point move results in a ten-fold change over the previous 0.1 number. Its a moot point to tell her to not make a 40% water change after the fact. This was already done. BTW, I'm pleased to see you've picked up some knowledge of caring for tropical fish while in the industry. You should then know that 40% water changes are not necessarily a maintenance operation that should not be done, but in Sarah's case it should not have and was somewhat dangerous to do (especially since she had the option of using Prime). Depending on your water parameters (and your knowledge of them) and how close your water source is to those parameters (and your knowledge of how much your water source will change/affect your water parameters), will depend on how much water you can safely change. I often change out up to 85% to 90% of the water, knowing that it will not change the pH (and more importantly, will not change the hardness which can otherwise affect the osmoregulatory system of the fish), as its done regularly, for reasons that I want growth inhibiting theromones to be kept an an absolute minimum when growing out fish. The fish thrive much better on large water changes -- provided this has been an ongoing mainstay of their maintenance -- much as fish in a river get a constant change of water every second, its parameters only changing gradually with the seasons. Ray </HTML>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 3:46:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 4:05:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30576	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Thank you for the update, I do not have problems with ich I do keep my tanks at 83 degrees F, I also keep a bit of copper and salt in all my tanks except for those fish sensitive to slat and copper. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. Henry, some new Ich resist to 88'F and the temperature have to be rise to 90'F, of course only few fish can survive at this temperature, Clown Loach, Discus, Silver Dollar, Angel, no problem, ***** Chris do not increase your temperature at 90' ***** Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <HYPERLINK "mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net"henrypuryear@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:05 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. Increase the temp to a stable 82 degrees F, Ich does not survive in warm water. Also a bit of salt will improve the overall health of your fish too. 1 teaspoon of salt per 10 gallons. Remember the white spots you see is only one phase of the Ich parasite's life cycle. From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:27 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. One of my sword tails is showing ich on the top of her body and spreading out from around the dorsal fin. Now its only a matter of time before the rest get it. I keep my aquarium at around 78 - 80, but there has been some temperature fluctuation in the house because of the cold nights which dropped the aquarium down to 72 one morning. My 2 gouramis aren't very active (and don't seem to be eating) and sitting on the bottom of the aquarium and 2 guppies are doing the same. For now that is all. My ammonia is around .5 now. I haven't tested anything else yet. should I raise the temperature of the tank? What medications do you reccomend? As far as a hospital tank, I can't afford one yet so I'm gonna have to treat the whole tank. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30577	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my fishes

I do 50% or more weekly water change on my African cichlid tanks as a routine. I think it depends on the fish and the situation (like I would do smaller PWC if I was trying to cycle a tank). _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:41 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Ray, I added a stress coat + which converted the ammonia. When I did a 40% water change my ammonia level was 0. I had read that water changes were fine to do all the way to 50% which is why I did so much. I didnt realize when lenny said to do a 25% that he meant only 25 and not more. I just thought he meant to do atleast a 25%. I have kept a fishtank before but I was young and never even tested my water. This is all new to me as far as water changes and test kits. I just cleaned the tank every 2 months or so and filled it with all new water. I never would have imagined it was so in depth. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> wmconnect.comDate: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:37:48 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Hi Suzy, Sarah had a lot of water parameter issues a few days ago, and at that time did a 30% water change. Her nitrite was 1.6 and her ammonia was 1.4 -- very dangerous with her pH being 9.0. Lenny told her to get and to use Prime to detox the ammonia (convert it to ammonium) and to add salt. Instead, as you see she did a 40% water change. I did point out to her that this placed stress on the fish when it resulted in lowering the pH 1 full point (from 9.0 to 8.0) -- each 1/10th (0.1) of a point move results in a ten-fold change over the previous 0.1 number. Its a moot point to tell her to not make a 40% water change after the fact. This was already done. BTW, I'm pleased to see you've picked up some knowledge of caring for tropical fish while in the industry. You should then know that 40% water changes are not necessarily a maintenance operation that should not be done, but in Sarah's case it should not have and was somewhat dangerous to do (especially since she had the option of using Prime). Depending on your water parameters (and your knowledge of them) and how close your water source is to those parameters (and your knowledge of how much your water source will change/affect your water parameters), will depend on how much water you can safely change. I often change out up to 85% to 90% of the water, knowing that it will not change the pH (and more importantly, will not change the hardness which can otherwise affect the osmoregulatory system of the fish), as its done regularly, for reasons that I want growth inhibiting theromones to be kept an an absolute minimum when growing out fish. The fish thrive much better on large water changes -- provided this has been an ongoing mainstay of their maintenance -- much as fish in a river get a constant change of water every second, its parameters only changing gradually with the seasons. Ray </HTML>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30578	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: High KH

Just to anwser the question in part, you should not change more tha 20 ppm of Kh a day , came me back on the Gh jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Scott" <w.j.scott@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: High KH I bought an API Kh test kit today and started testing my tanks. Much to my Surprise, they tested outside the parameters if the test kit. It took 25 drops for the water to turn yellow & the chart only goes up to12 drops or 412 ppm How fast should I lower the Kh and what is the best way to do it ? Bill -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/26/2008 2:05:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Yep... the science of fish keeping has dragged many fish keepers kicking and screaming into the 21st century. So much more has been learned about setting up a proper ecology in a closed system, especially for tanks without lots of live plants. For the relatively few beginners that learn how to start off with a planted tank, then the "Nitrogen Cycle" issues aren't as much of a worry since the plants utilize the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate but for new tanks that do not have a lot, or any, live plants, then understanding the "Nitrogen Cycle" is very important to keep from causing harm to our fish. It's a shame so many pet stores still do not understand how rough "cycling with fish" is on the fish and their customers but at least the internet has provided forums like this one where newbies can get brought up to speed. Another thing that is mentioned often is that the fish themselves were much hardier 20, 30, 40 years ago compared to today where they have often been inbred so much that they are much less hardy. Like Ray said, unless the incoming water and tank water have similar water chemistry and parameters, then sometimes even a 25% change might be too much. When the numbers are not known, then the most I would ever recommend is 25% but if I had known you were going to use bottle water, which more often is around 7.0 pH, compared to your tanks pH of 9.0, then I would not have recommended more than a 10% PWC so that the pH would not have changed by more than 0.2. We still need the 48 hour tap water baseline numbers to see if your tap is actually raising from 7.5 to 9.0. If it's not your tap, then there is something in your tank that is leaching and causing your pH to go up so high. Look back over my last couple of messages where I asked about what was in your tank, filter system, etc. to try and isolate the cause. If you go to my blog, on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see links to two free online fish keeping tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics... many which we've already gone over but going through them one step at a time is easier to learn than the crash course that you've gone through here. Both tutorials are very easy to read and understand but feel free to come back here with any questions you may have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:41 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Ray, I added a stress coat + which converted the ammonia. When I did a 40% water change my ammonia level was 0. I had read that water changes were fine to do all the way to 50% which is why I did so much. I didnt realize when lenny said to do a 25% that he meant only 25 and not more. I just thought he meant to do atleast a 25%. I have kept a fishtank before but I was young and never even tested my water. This is all new to me as far as water changes and test kits. I just cleaned the tank every 2 months or so and filled it with all new water. I never would have imagined it was so in depth. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> : Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:37:48 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Hi Suzy, Sarah had a lot of water parameter issues a few days ago, and at that time did a 30% water change. Her nitrite was 1.6 and her ammonia was 1.4 -- very dangerous with her pH being 9.0. Lenny told her to get and to use Prime to detox the ammonia (convert it to ammonium) and to add salt. Instead, as you see she did a 40% water change. I did point out to her that this placed stress on the fish when it resulted in lowering the pH 1 full point (from 9.0 to 8.0) -- each 1/10th (0.1) of a point move results in a ten-fold change over the previous 0.1 number. Its a moot point to tell her to not make a 40% water change after the fact. This was already done. BTW, I'm pleased to see you've picked up some knowledge of caring for tropical fish while in the industry. You should then know that 40% water changes are not necessarily a maintenance operation that should not be done, but in Sarah's case it should not have and was somewhat dangerous to do (especially since she had the option of using Prime). Depending on your water parameters (and your knowledge of them) and how close your water source is to those parameters (and your knowledge of how much your water source will change/affect your water parameters), will depend on how much water you can safely change. I often change out up to 85% to 90% of the water, knowing that it will not change the pH (and more importantly, will not change the hardness which can otherwise affect the osmoregulatory system of the fish), as its done regularly, for reasons that I want growth inhibiting theromones to be kept an an absolute minimum when growing out fish. The fish thrive much better on large water changes -- provided this has been an ongoing mainstay of their maintenance -- much as fish in a river get a constant change of water every second, its parameters only changing gradually with the seasons. Ray </HTML>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 3:46:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 4:05:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30579	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Chris, I'm perplexed as to why you didn't have your heater set at a higher temperature than 72 o, if it was set at all. If it weren't set, just suppose the temperature dipped to 67 o -- you'd have even more serious fish problems. Heaters are bought to prevent just such dips in temperature and are useless if not properly set (or not plugged in?). As even the normal strain of Ich will live just fine at 82 o, you need to raise the temperature to a minimum of 86 o (NO LESS). At 86 o, Ich can no longer reproduce, and while it can still live even at that temperature, there will be no further generation of it to replace those that die off in its lifecycle. The lifecycle of Ich at 86 o is approximately 48 hours. Salt serves a two-fold purpose when used in the treatment of Ich. It makes life tougher on the parasite and it helps promote a heavier slime coating on the fish by stimulating the mucus secretion cells, thereby making it more difficult for the Ich to attach themselves to the fish. The normal amount of salt to be used with Ich is 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. One teaspoon per gallon is not usually necessary, nor should that amount be used with Cory Catfish, Tetras, Loaches and other scaleless fish. No medication is necessary during this heat and salt treatment, so it is much easier on the fish. Do increase the aeration if at all possible -- besides allowing for faster gasous exchanges, heavily circulating water will hinder Ich's attempt in finding and attaching to fish. Prepare for a treatment duration of about 10 days, or three more days after you see no further signs of the Ich, allowing for the extra 48 hours +, after the last of the trophonts complete their cycle. At that time, lower the heat gradually, in stages. With any PWC's you perform (at 86 o) during the treatment, don't forget to replace the amount of salt lost during this process. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30580	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: High KH

Something else I just thought about. If people are not doing regular 25% PWC's and just topping off their tanks with tap water, then that would slowly increase the KH and GH levels in the tank since the evaporated water only contains H2O and none of the salts, minerals, etc. that are in normal drinking/tap water. If this is done for a long enough period of time, then I guess the KH and GH levels could get off the charts... of course some well water supplies could have a very high KH and GH levels from the start if the water is coming up through sand and limestone beds. But again, I've never seen such a high level before in any of the countless forum threads I've read over the years. Double check things and make sure you shake the bottles well. Also check the dates on the API bottles. The last four digits in the lot number would be the month/year of production (i.e.- 1207 would be December 2007). The KH kit has a shelf life of 3 years. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: High KH Hello Bill, so it will bring it to over 800, it's imposible, before go more far in the search of the problem, what is the Gh of your aquarium ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Scott" <w.j.scott@... <mailto:w.j.scott%40verizon.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: High KH I bought an API Kh test kit today and started testing my tanks. Much to my Surprise, they tested outside the parameters if the test kit. It took 25 drops for the water to turn yellow & the chart only goes up to12 drops or 412 ppm How fast should I lower the Kh and what is the best way to do it ? Bill -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/26/2008 2:05:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Yep... the science of fish keeping has dragged many fish keepers kicking and screaming into the 21st century. So much more has been learned about setting up a proper ecology in a closed system, especially for tanks without lots of live plants. For the relatively few beginners that learn how to start off with a planted tank, then the "Nitrogen Cycle" issues aren't as much of a worry since the plants utilize the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate but for new tanks that do not have a lot, or any, live plants, then understanding the "Nitrogen Cycle" is very important to keep from causing harm to our fish. It's a shame so many pet stores still do not understand how rough "cycling with fish" is on the fish and their customers but at least the internet has provided forums like this one where newbies can get brought up to speed. Another thing that is mentioned often is that the fish themselves were much hardier 20, 30, 40 years ago compared to today where they have often been inbred so much that they are much less hardy. Like Ray said, unless the incoming water and tank water have similar water chemistry and parameters, then sometimes even a 25% change might be too much. When the numbers are not known, then the most I would ever recommend is 25% but if I had known you were going to use bottle water, which more often is around 7.0 pH, compared to your tanks pH of 9.0, then I would not have recommended more than a 10% PWC so that the pH would not have changed by more than 0.2. We still need the 48 hour tap water baseline numbers to see if your tap is actually raising from 7.5 to 9.0. If it's not your tap, then there is something in your tank that is leaching and causing your pH to go up so high. Look back over my last couple of messages where I asked about what was in your tank, filter system, etc. to try and isolate the cause. If you go to my blog, on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see links to two free online fish keeping tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics... many which we've already gone over but going through them one step at a time is easier to learn than the crash course that you've gone through here. Both tutorials are very easy to read and understand but feel free to come back here with any questions you may have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:41 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Ray, I added a stress coat + which converted the ammonia. When I did a 40% water change my ammonia level was 0. I had read that water changes were fine to do all the way to 50% which is why I did so much. I didnt realize when lenny said to do a 25% that he meant only 25 and not more. I just thought he meant to do atleast a 25%. I have kept a fishtank before but I was young and never even tested my water. This is all new to me as far as water changes and test kits. I just cleaned the tank every 2 months or so and filled it with all new water. I never would have imagined it was so in depth. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> : Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:37:48 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update on my fishes Hi Suzy, Sarah had a lot of water parameter issues a few days ago, and at that time did a 30% water change. Her nitrite was 1.6 and her ammonia was 1.4 -- very dangerous with her pH being 9.0. Lenny told her to get and to use Prime to detox the ammonia (convert it to ammonium) and to add salt. Instead, as you see she did a 40% water change. I did point out to her that this placed stress on the fish when it resulted in lowering the pH 1 full point (from 9.0 to 8.0) -- each 1/10th (0.1) of a point move results in a ten-fold change over the previous 0.1 number. Its a moot point to tell her to not make a 40% water change after the fact. This was already done. BTW, I'm pleased to see you've picked up some knowledge of caring for tropical fish while in the industry. You should then know that 40% water changes are not necessarily a maintenance operation that should not be done, but in Sarah's case it should not have and was somewhat dangerous to do (especially since she had the option of using Prime). Depending on your water parameters (and your knowledge of them) and how close your water source is to those parameters (and your knowledge of how much your water source will change/affect your water parameters), will depend on how much water you can safely change. I often change out up to 85% to 90% of the water, knowing that it will not change the pH (and more importantly, will not change the hardness which can otherwise affect the osmoregulatory system of the fish), as its done regularly, for reasons that I want growth inhibiting theromones to be kept an an absolute minimum when growing out fish. The fish thrive much better on large water changes -- provided this has been an ongoing mainstay of their maintenance -- much as fish in a river get a constant change of water every second, its parameters only changing gradually with the seasons. Ray </HTML>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 3:46:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 4:05:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30581	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

I don't have Ich in my tank too, and I don't use Copper, Malachite, Salt or Pepper in it. The only case of Ich I get time to time is with some loach I will just bring from the pet shop, but I treat them only with heat at 90'c for 5 day in a quarantine tank. ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. Thank you for the update, I do not have problems with ich. I do keep my tanks at 83 degrees F, I also keep a bit of copper and salt in all my tanks except for those fish sensitive to slat and copper. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. Henry, some new Ich resist to 88'F and the temperature have to be rise to 90'F, of course only few fish can survive at this temperature, Clown Loach, Discus, Silver Dollar, Angel, no problem, ***** Chris do not increase your temperature at 90' ***** Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <HYPERLINK "mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net"henrypuryear@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:05 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. Increase the temp to a stable 82 degrees F, Ich does not survive in warm water. Also a bit of salt will improve the overall health of your fish too. 1 teaspoon of salt per 10 gallons. Remember the white spots you see is only one phase of the Ich parasite's life cycle. From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:27 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. One of my sword tails is showing ich on the top of her body and spreading out from around the dorsal fin. Now its only a matter of time before the rest get it. I keep my aquarium at around 78 - 80, but there has been some temperature fluctuation in the house because of the cold nights which dropped the aquarium down to 72 one morning. My 2 gouramis aren't very active (and don't seem to be eating) and sitting on the bottom of the aquarium and 2 guppies are doing the same. For now that is all. My ammonia is around .5 now. I haven't tested anything else yet. should I raise the temperature of the tank? What medications do you reccomend? As far as a hospital tank, I can't afford one yet so I'm gonna have to treat the whole tank. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30582	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

As far I can go in the oldest book I have, they was talking about using, malachite, salt and other stuff for the Ich, but in the book not yet write, and not even on Google, you will not find the ultimate treatment for the Ich, ( when you can'T apply yhe heat) and it's name Seachem Flourish Excel, the dose, I still work on it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30583	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Jerry, Seachem's Florish Excel is great for eliminating algaes, especially hair algae, but it has a devistating effect on Valisneria and Elodea. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30584	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Jerry, As I'm sure you already know, Flourish Excel ingredients from the SeaChem MSDS: (START SNIP) ParaGuard, HealthGuard , Pond HealthGuard, Flourish Excel, StressGuard [NFPA 1,0,1]: Principal ingredient is glutaraldehyde with ameliorating ingredients, pH 7. ParaGuard also contains malachite green. Malachite green is apossible carcinogen. Ingestion may cause severe gastric disturbance. May cause moderate irritation of mouth. If ingested, drink largequantities of milk or water. Universal antidote (charcoal) is useful. If enough is swallowed to cause distress, seek medical attention. Eyecontact will cause severe irritation. Flush eyes copiously with water. Seek medical attention (END SNIP) So Flourish Excel's primary active ingredient is glutaraldehyde. Read this thread where they discuss the danger level of overdosing Flourish Excel... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/23867-flou rish-excel-fish.html and here... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=104658 and here... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/20172-excel-treatment-bba-experience s.html From what I've read, glutaraldehyde is a biocide closely related to formaldehyde and that overdosing it in tanks can be detrimental to the fish so be careful in your testing it on Ich. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. As far I can go in the oldest book I have, they was talking about using, malachite, salt and other stuff for the Ich, but in the book not yet write, and not even on Google, you will not find the ultimate treatment for the Ich, ( when you can'T apply yhe heat) and it's name Seachem Flourish Excel, the dose, I still work on it. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 8:07:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30585	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

My heater is working properly. Durring the day the temp stays stable. It is that we aren't used to a tank in the house and forgot how much temps drop around this time of year. In that reguard, I'm thinking of truning my heater up at night or the thermostat to 65, but its cheaper to head a 20 gallon aquarium than the whole house.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30586	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Good to hear you have a properly working heater, Chris. Do not turn the heater up at night -- if its thermostat is properly set, it will work (in time duration) at whatever capacity is necessary to maintain that temperature. If it can't keep a steady set temperature, it might be too small (in Watts) for the size tank you're using it for. I do realize that with having your room cooler than normal this time of year, that the aquarium heater will have a harder time maintaining a proper water temperature. You haven't said how cool the room is at night -- please indicate. The normal application for the size heater necessary for a given tank to maintain your water temperature about 7.5 o (7 1/2 degrees) above the ambient (room) temperature is 3 Watts per gallon -- cooler rooms will require a higher Wattage aquarium heater. This rating may vary slightly, dependent on manufacturer and the gauge heating element wire employed. You may want to increase this Wattage with the purchase of a different (higher Wattage) heater and retire your present one. What make of heater do you have, and what is the Wattage of it? With turning the aquarium heater thermostat up at night, it may easily overheat the tank during the day if you forget to turn it lower in the morning, besides which it sounds like even if the thermostat had the heater working steadily all night without turning off, it wouldn't maintain the needed temperature for the tank, as a properly set thermostat would do JUST THAT (run steadily) if the room were to cool off to that extend. It just sounds like the heater cannot keep up with the heat loss from the aquarium under the present room conditions. You may also want to try fastening sheet styrofoam to 3 sides of the tank until you turn the house heat on. I can see you're going to have a difficult (impossible?) time raising the aquarium temperature to 86 o to treat the Ich. I think its time to invest in a larger heater. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30587	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

I just added gravel wed night. I do have a heater, and I have a filter in there alos. The only thing I didn't have in the tank when I first added fish was gravel. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> wrote: > > Cris , if I'm not mistake, your tank do not have gravel at the bottom ?, > do you have a filter. ? , I hope so, what brand and type you have, A tank > to cycle need substrate of a suficient media holding filter capability , to > host the nitrifying bacteria. > > As for your Ich, if your tank do not have gravel, it's simple, you syphon > the bottom of the tank every 12 hours, until you see no more white spot, and > IMPORTANT , you continue few day after. The ich reproduce in water to > make new one that will install themself on the fish, doying the syphoning , > it will remove the eggs , who are at the bottom of the tank. ( ok it's > not simple like that , but I want keep it simple , so i put aside the > Trophozoites, Trophont, Tomites, etc. ) > > Jerry >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30588	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

All true valisneria do have stomata, Excel usually kill plants without stomata. For the valisneria, even in small quantity, the Excel will make them melt. But they will re grow and be immune to excel. ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. Jerry, Seachem's Florish Excel is great for eliminating algaes, especially hair algae, but it has a devistating effect on Valisneria and Elodea. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30589	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

If you use those cheap hang on heater, be sure the temp of the aquarium will fluctuate with the temp of the room. If your room varies so much you need a submersible good quality heater, with sufficient watts to handle the difference of temperature between the day and the night. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 9:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. My heater is working properly. Durring the day the temp stays stable. It is that we aren't used to a tank in the house and forgot how much temps drop around this time of year. In that reguard, I'm thinking of truning my heater up at night or the thermostat to 65, but its cheaper to head a 20 gallon aquarium than the whole house. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30590	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Lenny I fallow one of your link ( not without have to complete it, as they do not work as is. «That's an understatement. Gluteraldehyde is a strong BIOCIDE, related to formaldehyde " so it's where you paste and copy that. What is the referral, the credential of the guy who has post this statement? Come on ... a post in a group is not a reference. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 9:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. Jerry, As I'm sure you already know, Flourish Excel ingredients from the SeaChem MSDS: (START SNIP) ParaGuard, HealthGuard , Pond HealthGuard, Flourish Excel, StressGuard [NFPA 1,0,1]: Principal ingredient is glutaraldehyde with ameliorating ingredients, pH 7. ParaGuard also contains malachite green. Malachite green is apossible carcinogen. Ingestion may cause severe gastric disturbance. May cause moderate irritation of mouth. If ingested, drink largequantities of milk or water. Universal antidote (charcoal) is useful. If enough is swallowed to cause distress, seek medical attention. Eyecontact will cause severe irritation. Flush eyes copiously with water. Seek medical attention (END SNIP) So Flourish Excel's primary active ingredient is glutaraldehyde. Read this thread where they discuss the danger level of overdosing Flourish Excel... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/23867-flou rish-excel-fish.html and here... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=104658 and here... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/20172-excel-treatment-bba-experience s.html From what I've read, glutaraldehyde is a biocide closely related to formaldehyde and that overdosing it in tanks can be detrimental to the fish so be careful in your testing it on Ich. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. As far I can go in the oldest book I have, they was talking about using, malachite, salt and other stuff for the Ich, but in the book not yet write, and not even on Google, you will not find the ultimate treatment for the Ich, ( when you can'T apply yhe heat) and it's name Seachem Flourish Excel, the dose, I still work on it. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 8:07:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30591	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

I have a whisper 20 gallon hanging filter. I have a 18" bubble tube going. I have an water heater that keeps the tank around 78 (sometimes 80) degrees. I had to play with the settings to find that degree range because it doesn't have any markings on it to show what temp it is set for. The gravel is a new addition. There are plenty of plants in the tank aswell, and no, I'm not adding any new fish. I think I over stocked the tank so I won't be adding anymore for a while, and that is if I do at all. So this is what I'm getting. Raise the temp to 86 and add 4 tablespoons of table salt to the tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30592	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

As you said Lenny I know,,,,,,,,, what do you thing Malachite, Formaldehyde, Copper are, poison too. You mention Paraguard, what Paraguard is good at... treatment of the Ich.. But in my experience I do not use Paraguard, or Excel, I use pure glutaraldehyde, on different form similar to the one use by Seachem, glutaraldehyde (C5H8O2 ) is not related to formaldehyde (CH2O ) at all. The Glutaldehyde is miscible in water , not the formaldehyde. The Glutaldehyde is liquid, the formaldehyde is a gaz , what people call formol is the formaldehyde dissolve in water. Anyway it's only a scoop , no treatment, no dosage... top secret.for now

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30593	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Is your heater large enough for your tank? If your water temp drops at night, you could have a under wattage heater. What is the wattage of your heater? You might need to add another heater. In my large tanks, I have two heaters. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 9:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I just added gravel wed night. I do have a heater, and I have a filter in there alos. The only thing I didn't have in the tank when I first added fish was gravel. --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> wrote: > > Cris , if I'm not mistake, your tank do not have gravel at the bottom ?, > do you have a filter. ? , I hope so, what brand and type you have, A tank > to cycle need substrate of a suficient media holding filter capability , to > host the nitrifying bacteria. > > As for your Ich, if your tank do not have gravel, it's simple, you syphon > the bottom of the tank every 12 hours, until you see no more white spot, and > IMPORTANT , you continue few day after. The ich reproduce in water to > make new one that will install themself on the fish, doying the syphoning , > it will remove the eggs , who are at the bottom of the tank. ( ok it's > not simple like that , but I want keep it simple , so i put aside the > Trophozoites, Trophont, Tomites, etc. ) > > Jerry > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

In reading all three threads, the MSDS and other links in the threads, I stand by my statement. Gluteraldehyde at 1% has been, and is used as a biocidal disinfectant in the medical industry for disinfecting endoscopes used for rectal exams.... yep.. I used the R word. LOL I'm pretty sure that makes it a strong biocide. ;-) (START SNIP) The 1999 Code of Practice for Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (Chemical Agents) Regulations, 1994, reduces the occupational exposure limit for glutaraldehyde from 0.2ppm to 0.1ppm. What else can be done to reduce the risk from glutaraldehyde? Wherever possible, glutaraldehyde should be replaced by a less hazardous substance. For a number of uses, including disinfection of some endoscopes, there are many safer alternatives available. Glutaraldehyde must not be used as a general wipe-down disinfectant. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. Lenny I fallow one of your link ( not without have to complete it, as they do not work as is. «That's an understatement. Gluteraldehyde is a strong BIOCIDE, related to formaldehyde " so it's where you paste and copy that. What is the referral, the credential of the guy who has post this statement? Come on ... a post in a group is not a reference. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 9:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. Jerry, As I'm sure you already know, Flourish Excel ingredients from the SeaChem MSDS: (START SNIP) ParaGuard, HealthGuard , Pond HealthGuard, Flourish Excel, StressGuard [NFPA 1,0,1]: Principal ingredient is glutaraldehyde with ameliorating ingredients, pH 7. ParaGuard also contains malachite green. Malachite green is apossible carcinogen. Ingestion may cause severe gastric disturbance. May cause moderate irritation of mouth. If ingested, drink largequantities of milk or water. Universal antidote (charcoal) is useful. If enough is swallowed to cause distress, seek medical attention. Eyecontact will cause severe irritation. Flush eyes copiously with water. Seek medical attention (END SNIP) So Flourish Excel's primary active ingredient is glutaraldehyde. Read this thread where they discuss the danger level of overdosing Flourish Excel... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/23867-flou <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/23867-flo u> rish-excel-fish.html and here... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=104658 <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=104658> and here... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/20172-excel-treatment-bba-experience <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/20172-excel-treatment-bba-experienc e> s.html From what I've read, glutaraldehyde is a biocide closely related to formaldehyde and that overdosing it in tanks can be detrimental to the fish so be careful in your testing it on Ich. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. As far I can go in the oldest book I have, they was talking about using, malachite, salt and other stuff for the Ich, but in the book not yet write, and not even on Google, you will not find the ultimate treatment for the Ich, ( when you can'T apply yhe heat) and it's name Seachem Flourish Excel, the dose, I still work on it. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 8:07:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 9:03:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 9:25:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

But Paraguard also contains Malachite along with the Gluteraldehyde which is why it's a treatment for parasites, like Ich. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. As you said Lenny I know,,,,,,,,, what do you thing Malachite, Formaldehyde, Copper are, poison too. You mention Paraguard, what Paraguard is good at... treatment of the Ich.. But in my experience I do not use Paraguard, or Excel, I use pure glutaraldehyde, on different form similar to the one use by Seachem, glutaraldehyde (C5H8O2 ) is not related to formaldehyde (CH2O ) at all. The Glutaldehyde is miscible in water , not the formaldehyde. The Glutaldehyde is liquid, the formaldehyde is a gaz , what people call formol is the formaldehyde dissolve in water. Anyway it's only a scoop , no treatment, no dosage... top secret.for now _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 9:29:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30596	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

well the outside air is hitting somewhere in the 50's. I guess my heater is too small then because it is only 25 watts. I'm guessing i need 60 watts then.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30597	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

the heater is made by askoll. Almost forgot to include that.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30598	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

So I supose than you have compare the concentration of malachite in the paraguard and the " ED " of the Malachite to treat the Ich , before make this statement ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:29 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. But Paraguard also contains Malachite along with the Gluteraldehyde which is why it's a treatment for parasites, like Ich. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. As you said Lenny I know,,,,,,,,, what do you thing Malachite, Formaldehyde, Copper are, poison too. You mention Paraguard, what Paraguard is good at... treatment of the Ich.. But in my experience I do not use Paraguard, or Excel, I use pure glutaraldehyde, on different form similar to the one use by Seachem, glutaraldehyde (C5H8O2 ) is not related to formaldehyde (CH2O ) at all. The Glutaldehyde is miscible in water , not the formaldehyde. The Glutaldehyde is liquid, the formaldehyde is a gaz , what people call formol is the formaldehyde dissolve in water. Anyway it's only a scoop , no treatment, no dosage... top secret.for now _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 9:29:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30599	From: CanAm	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

25 watts, are you kidding, where you get a 25 watts, the smallest I ever see is 50 watts. I guess i was not looking for so small :) you room is at 50 and you need 86 for the Ich ...... I'm not even sure a 100 watts will rise it at 76'F , so imagine 86 'F , a 100 watts is good to rise a 20 gal. of 10 ' F above the room temp. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:07 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. well the outside air is hitting somewhere in the 50's. I guess my heater is too small then because it is only 25 watts. I'm guessing i need 60 watts then. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30600	From: Richard Haley	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Water temp of 82F and some salt and your fish will be as good as new make sure to maintain temp. of 82F-84F as the ich will not be able to reproduce in these temps --- On Fri, 9/26/08, CanAm <canam-pc@...> wrote: From: CanAm <canam-pc@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 9:52 PM Lenny I fallow one of your link ( not without have to complete it, as they do not work as is. «That's an understatement. Gluteraldehyde is a strong BIOCIDE, related to formaldehyde " so it's where you paste and copy that. What is the referral, the credential of the guy who has post this statement? Come on ... a post in a group is not a reference. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 9:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. Jerry, As I'm sure you already know, Flourish Excel ingredients from the SeaChem MSDS: (START SNIP) ParaGuard, HealthGuard , Pond HealthGuard, Flourish Excel, StressGuard [NFPA 1,0,1]: Principal ingredient is glutaraldehyde with ameliorating ingredients, pH 7. ParaGuard also contains malachite green. Malachite green is apossible carcinogen. Ingestion may cause severe gastric disturbance. May cause moderate irritation of mouth. If ingested, drink largequantities of milk or water. Universal antidote (charcoal) is useful. If enough is swallowed to cause distress, seek medical attention. Eyecontact will cause severe irritation. Flush eyes copiously with water. Seek medical attention (END SNIP) So Flourish Excel's primary active ingredient is glutaraldehyde. Read this thread where they discuss the danger level of overdosing Flourish Excel... http://www.plantedt ank.net/forums/ general-planted- tank-discussion/ 23867-flou rish-excel-fish. html and here... http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ phpBB/viewtopic. php?t=104658 and here... http://www.plantedt ank.net/forums/ algae/20172- excel-treatment- bba-experience s.html From what I've read, glutaraldehyde is a biocide closely related to formaldehyde and that overdosing it in tanks can be detrimental to the fish so be careful in your testing it on Ich. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. As far I can go in the oldest book I have, they was talking about using, malachite, salt and other stuff for the Ich, but in the book not yet write, and not even on Google, you will not find the ultimate treatment for the Ich, ( when you can'T apply yhe heat) and it's name Seachem Flourish Excel, the dose, I still work on it. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 8:07:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30601	From: Richard Haley	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Go get a Marineland Stealth 250 watt set it to 82 and let'er go it will be fine and the heater is great for what you need over doing in thisa sense is not going hurt as your air temp is so low these heaters will go to 92F I believe and they are accurate within +/- 1F. Make sure to mount it horizontily as low in the tank as your can it will create a really good convection current as well as heat it properly --- On Fri, 9/26/08, CanAm <canam-pc@...> wrote: From: CanAm <canam-pc@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 11:23 PM 25 watts, are you kidding, where you get a 25 watts, the smallest I ever see is 50 watts. I guess i was not looking for so small :) you room is at 50 and you need 86 for the Ich ...... I'm not even sure a 100 watts will rise it at 76'F , so imagine 86 'F , a 100 watts is good to rise a 20 gal. of 10 ' F above the room temp. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@yahoo. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:07 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. well the outside air is hitting somewhere in the 50's. I guess my heater is too small then because it is only 25 watts. I'm guessing i need 60 watts then. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30602	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

I bought the tank from a local second hand store. There was a bunch of artificial plants, a hanging filter, and the heater. I figured that whoever had it previously would've known what they were doing and didn't even think about checking to see if it is big enough. I turned the heater up and am raising the thermostat for the night. I'll get a new one tomorrow.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30603	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

FYI - There was a faulty hood that came with the tank. The hood still had quality control tag with it dated in the mid 80's. I'm assuming it was all purchased at the same time.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30604	From: Richard Haley	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium Temps

Sounds like a perfect enviroment Alina no need to cool the tank the temps you have are perfect the temp variation is normal and if it is in a path of direct sunlight that would explain the tempetures reading above ambient temps. --- On Fri, 9/26/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: From: Alina <alambiet@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Temps To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 9:04 AM Question on temps: I live in Florida, keep my house around 78-79 degrees, but my tank keeps hovering around 82. How badly will this affect my tropical fish? So far, I have tetras, 2 mollies, three or four guppies, a couple of platies and one apple snail. I lost two guppies for unknown reasons this week...water levels were good, but water was just shy of 82. Been bringing it down artificially in the evenings with a frozen bottle of water in a ziplock bag, and that gets it down to about 80. It is not near a window..and moving it at this stage would be quite difficult, would rather not stress the fish if poss. Thanks alina (oh, and tank is 38-gal, is new, been set up about 7 weeks now) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30605	From: Chris	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

My heater is sitting in the rising bubbles from the air tube I put in for aeration of the tank, so any heat the heater puts out is carried away instantly. I was looking on PetSmart's website and was thinking about buying a 150 watt, but 100 is really all I need right? I'm consed why 200wats isn't over kill? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > One of my sword tails is showing ich on the top of her body and > spreading out from around the dorsal fin. Now its only a matter of > time before the rest get it. I keep my aquarium at around 78 - 80, > but there has been some temperature fluctuation in the house because > of the cold nights which dropped the aquarium down to 72 one morning. > My 2 gouramis aren't very active (and don't seem to be eating) and > sitting on the bottom of the aquarium and 2 guppies are doing the > same. For now that is all. > > My ammonia is around .5 now. I haven't tested anything else yet. > > should I raise the temperature of the tank? What medications do you > reccomend? As far as a hospital tank, I can't afford one yet so I'm > gonna have to treat the whole tank. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30606	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

The best thing to do is get a good quality submersible heater, like a 75 watt. Check with everyone else here. They may cost more, but are much better and easier to use than the hang on the tank. They even have what temp you can set it at, so there is never a worry. What size is your tank again? From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. well the outside air is hitting somewhere in the 50's. I guess my heater is too small then because it is only 25 watts. I'm guessing i need 60 watts then. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30607	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Even better is to get two heaters that add up to the total wattage needed so that you have some redundancy in the event either heater ever fails. Another thing is to have an accurate floating thermometer but the little inexpensive stick-on thermal strips are also an easy and quick way to see what the temp range is at a glance. With two 1/2 sized heaters, if one of the heaters fails in the on position, the other one will go off and the stuck one will not be able to overheat your tank too quickly and you'll notice the "On" light staying lit constantly. If one fails in the off position, the other one would stay on to keep the tank from cooling down too much and you would notice the "On" light staying lit consistently on that one (or you could always get a BIG tank, 55G+, and get a couple of fancy goldfish which are cool water fish and do not need heaters unless you live in a freezer ;-)). I documented an experiment on a 10G tank with a 50W heater a couple of years ago and simulated it stuck in the on position and the off position to show how fast the water would heat up and/or cool down. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/heater-failure-experiment-on-10g.html Presuming the link will break, simply go to my blog and click on the Label link "Heater failure experiment" Here is a SUMMARY of my conclusions in the experiment if you don't want to read all of the data. (START SNIP) This means if you have a heater failure and it got stuck in the ON position, your tank would get very warm, very fast at 1.5F per hour. If the heater failed in the OFF position, your tank would cool down at the rate of 1F per hour. Either of these scenarios would be very stressful, if not catastrophic to a 10G tank. I guess I'll be looking at getting a couple of 25W heaters in the near future for my 10G tank. The larger the tank, the less volatile the temperature variation (at least according to basic laws of physics) but the value of stock in a larger tank is a lot more money so it is even more important to keep them stable as well. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of henry puryear Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. The best thing to do is get a good quality submersible heater, like a 75 watt. Check with everyone else here. They may cost more, but are much better and easier to use than the hang on the tank. They even have what temp you can set it at, so there is never a worry. What size is your tank again? From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. well the outside air is hitting somewhere in the 50's. I guess my heater is too small then because it is only 25 watts. I'm guessing i need 60 watts then. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 11:15:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 11:50:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30608	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

As others have stated, a 5W per G heater (100W for 20G) will only raise the temp by around 7.5F above the ambient room temp. Generally, you'll see 5W per G as a guideline but that's presuming your home temp will be around 72F+ year round. If your room temp gets less than 72F, as yours does, then you would need another 100W per 7.5F reduction in room temp. If the room temp gets down to 65F, then you would need 200W for a 20G tank. Or like I posted in the reply before this one, get two 100W heaters so you'll have a combined total of 200W but you'll have redundancy in the event one of the heaters ever fail. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. My heater is sitting in the rising bubbles from the air tube I put in for aeration of the tank, so any heat the heater puts out is carried away instantly. I was looking on PetSmart's website and was thinking about buying a 150 watt, but 100 is really all I need right? I'm consed why 200wats isn't over kill? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > One of my sword tails is showing ich on the top of her body and > spreading out from around the dorsal fin. Now its only a matter of > time before the rest get it. I keep my aquarium at around 78 - 80, but > there has been some temperature fluctuation in the house because of > the cold nights which dropped the aquarium down to 72 one morning. > My 2 gouramis aren't very active (and don't seem to be eating) and > sitting on the bottom of the aquarium and 2 guppies are doing the > same. For now that is all. > > My ammonia is around .5 now. I haven't tested anything else yet. > > should I raise the temperature of the tank? What medications do you > reccomend? As far as a hospital tank, I can't afford one yet so I'm > gonna have to treat the whole tank. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 11:15:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/26/2008 11:55:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30609	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/26/2008
Subject: Scouting Oceans

This will probably only be of interest to those who have marine tanks, and, even then, a subset of those people. But, take a look and see what this is all about. Ocean Science [pdf] http://www.ocean-science.net/ The European Geosciences Union has been working on a number of open access journals over the past few years, and Ocean Science is just such an endeavor. The intent of the journal is to publish research articles, review papers, and short communications of all stripes. Visitors can sign up for RSS feeds, look over the "General Information" area, and also learn about their submission guidelines. In the "Online Library OS" area, visitors can view recently revised papers, complete issues, special issues, and also search past works by title or author. Also, visitors are welcome to comment on published works and they can also sign up to receive an email subscription to Ocean Science. >From The Scout Report, Copyright Internet Scout 1994-2008. http://scout.wisc.edu/ \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30610	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you recommend.

It may actually the malachite green doing the most damage against the ich parasite. One would need to separate the glutaraldehyde and the malachite green to determine which is more effective, and run tests with them both together to determine if together they have a more devastating effect on the parasite. Me? If I see ich, I'll raise the temperature to speed the lifecycle of the parasite and treat with salt. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 9:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. Jerry, As I'm sure you already know, Flourish Excel ingredients from the SeaChem MSDS: (START SNIP) ParaGuard, HealthGuard , Pond HealthGuard, Flourish Excel, StressGuard [NFPA 1,0,1]: Principal ingredient is glutaraldehyde with ameliorating ingredients, pH 7. ParaGuard also contains malachite green. Malachite green is apossible carcinogen. Ingestion may cause severe gastric disturbance. May cause moderate irritation of mouth. If ingested, drink largequantities of milk or water. Universal antidote (charcoal) is useful. If enough is swallowed to cause distress, seek medical attention. Eyecontact will cause severe irritation. Flush eyes copiously with water. Seek medical attention (END SNIP) So Flourish Excel's primary active ingredient is glutaraldehyde. Read this thread where they discuss the danger level of overdosing Flourish Excel... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/23867- flou rish-excel-fish.html and here... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=104658 and here... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/20172-excel-treatment-bba-experi ence s.html From what I've read, glutaraldehyde is a biocide closely related to formaldehyde and that overdosing it in tanks can be detrimental to the fish so be careful in your testing it on Ich. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. As far I can go in the oldest book I have, they was talking about using, malachite, salt and other stuff for the Ich, but in the book not yet write, and not even on Google, you will not find the ultimate treatment for the Ich, ( when you can'T apply yhe heat) and it's name Seachem Flourish Excel, the dose, I still work on it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30611	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Jerry, Yes, Flourish Excel will melt plants like Valisneria and Elodea, even if it won't kill them, which is why I stated it would devastate for them. I would also be concerned for Crypts (Cryptocoryne) as sometimes it doesn't take much to melt these anyway. Tougher leaved plants like Sagittaria might fair better. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30612	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Jerry, Actually, 100 Watts will raise the temperature of a 20 gallon tank 12.5 o above the ambient temperature. 80 Watts will raise this tank 10 o above the temperature of the room, but none are made that size -- although a well made 75 Watt heater will do the job. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30613	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Richard, I don't know where you obtained your faulty information, but Ich will certainly survive at temperatures between 82o and 84o. It will also survive (will not be KILLED) at 86 o, but it will be rendered unable to reproduce -- so as its life-cycle of 48 hours at that temperature completes, it dies off naturally without being able to bring forth succeeding generations. This is why you need to be careful not to reduce the temperature prematurely after you see no more signs of Ich on the fish. Still living at 86 o, it can produce another generation to infest the fish if the water temperature is lowered before the end of its life cycle. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30614	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Chris, A 60 watt heater is not stong enough for a 20 gallon tank. It will only raise the water temperature 7.5 o above the room temperature. With your outside temperature being 50 o, you still have not said what temperature the room falls to at night. Without that information, its virtually impossible to determine the proper size heater you will need. You can figure on 2 Watts per Gallon raising the temperature 5 o over the room temperature. If your room is around 66 o, and you need to raise the temperature to 86 o, you'll need 160 Watts of heater capacity. If your room is even cooler than that, you will of course need more wattage. Now, the potential problem comes in that should the thermostat ever stick on in the middle of the Summer, this much wattage could cook your fish. For that reason, I would recommend your getting two somewhat smaller heaters of around 100 Watts each (note: DO NOT get two heaters of different wattage), if you plan on delaying turning on your house heat in the future. In this way, if one fails to come on, at least you'll have the other heater of sufficient capacity to prevent any loss of aquarium heat when the tank is maintained at 78 o -- 100 Watts of heater capacity will heat your tank to 78 o over a room temperature of 65.5 o. If one 100 Watt heater sticks in the on position, it will not heat the water as fast as having one larger heater stick on as, as soon as the temperature rises above that temperature at which the heaters are set for, in the event of a malfunction in one heater the properly working heater's thermostat will not engage and so will not turn on. You will still have to watch your aquarium thermometer (buy either a floating thermometer or a hang-on) during the Summer and monitor this as even one 100 Watt heater can raise the temperature of a 78 o tank in the Summer (an average room temperature in the Summer, unless you have air conditioning) to over 90 o. Normally, I would recommend your getting two 75 Watt heaters, as this would provide you with protection in both directions (cold or hot) without excessive cooling or overheating UNDER NORMAL CONDITIONS. But your requirements to heat this aquarium above such cool room temperatures this time of year, and the special requirement to raise the temp to 86 o now at these same low room temperatures presents more of a challenge in determining your exact needs. If you plan on having air conditioning in the Summer though, this does make things easier to determine as a 100 Watt heater stuck on will only be able to raise the temperature of a 74 o room to 86.5 o, which most fish will tolerate (and which you should become aware of as that starts to happen), so in that event two 100 Watt heaters would be the way to go, but I just wanted to cover all bases for you. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30615	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Chris, I'm not familiar with the Askoll heater brand. I don't know if its all that popular, and can't comment on how good it is, but I do see references to it when making a Google search for it. I find they make submersible aquarium heaters. I don't know if they make hang-on heaters, and you haven't indicated what type you have, although you did say you have it in the stream of your airstone (which I'll get to in your next post). If you have a submersible heater now (and seem to be satisfied with one of these heater types), I would highly recommend your getting Ebo Jager (now called Eheim Jager) heaters as they are about the best quality you can buy. If not available in your area, Visi-Therm is almost as good; these submersible heaters have calibrated thermostat settings, but you'll still have to play with them with your lower room temperature -- setting them both the SAME -- and may need to re-calibrate them in the Summer with warmer ambient temperatures. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30616	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Chris, If this is a hang-on heater, never put it directly over an aerator stream. They spray from the breaking bubbles will soon saturate the control area on top (unless your heater has a top-cover) and moisture may seep down through the thermostat shaft into the inside of the heater. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30617	From: Chris	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I'm gonna get pounced..

I did a nitrite test just to see if I should do a PWC, or just buy some Zeolite to bring the ammonia down. The test turned purple immediatly. I guess I should do a 50% hu?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30618	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Hey Dora

Any chance you are on line bright and early today? I am heading to Austin to look for some Sydthmunki and wondered if you had any recommendations on where to shop? I am sick of College station Pet notso smart. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30619	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Richard, Along with my previous message, I meant to include the Ich will keep producing at temperatures from 82 o to 84 o (not only living at those temps). This is the reason why you should not turn the temperature down from 86 o too soon after seeing the last of it on your fish -- it can make a resurgence. Agreed, it will have a tougher time of it though at these higher temperatures, partially as its time-window of opportunity to find a host will be greatly reduced because of its faster life cycle. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30620	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I'm gonna get pounced..

Chris, Provided your tap water parameters (of pH and hardness) closely match these same parameters of your tank, yes it would be safe to do a 50% water change, of course at the same temperature (which should go without saying, but just as a reminder to other beginners). If your source water is much different, depending on how different it is, you would be safer to do several smaller (20% to 25%) PWC's, over the course of the day. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30621	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I'm gonna get pounced..

Depending on your tap water baseline chemistry, compared to your tanks chemistry, if they aren't close enough, then it would be better to do a series of 25% PWC's, one every two hours (or less than 25% if the chemistry is way off). I know we've talked about having small levels of salt in "Cycling With Fish" tanks so hopefully you already were running the "pinch per 10G" level of salt to protect your fish from nitrite poisoning. I hope you are starting to realize why we push "Fishless Cycling" so much, using plain ammonia to cycle a tank, instead of putting the fish and yourself through the arduous and often deadly "Cycling With Fish" process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I'm gonna get pounced.. I did a nitrite test just to see if I should do a PWC, or just buy some Zeolite to bring the ammonia down. The test turned purple immediatly. I guess I should do a 50% hu? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/27/2008 9:02:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30622	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Dora

Hi Grammy, I wasn't familiar with "Sydthmunki" so I had to do a Google and Google recommended the spelling as Sidthmuki so I clicked on that choice. I didn't see any recognizably reliable websites with profiles on what I'm guessing you were asking about the Botia sidthmunki but I did find this article with a reference to it on Loaches.com which is a reliable source. http://www.loaches.com/loaches-in-books-magazines/botia-by-igor-sheremetyev I see they are a dwarf loach species and do not seem to be very common. I'm not sure PetsMart will carry them. Maybe a big LFS might but you may have to order this species. Remember that loaches prefer to be in shoals of five or more so even with the dwarf variety, it can quickly add up in a small tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzy Snowflake Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey Dora Any chance you are on line bright and early today? I am heading to Austin to look for some Sydthmunki and wondered if you had any recommendations on where to shop? I am sick of College station Pet notso smart. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/27/2008 8:45:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/27/2008 9:14:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30623	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Lenny: My fish seem to be doing well on the amount of salt I'm putting in. One of you previously said it was bad for tetras but I've not been able to find that stated elsewhere. What specifically would it do to them? If it hurts nothing, I'm going to go on doing it, since they've not had any problems with disease since I've been adding it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I'll reiterate once again that "Aquarium Salt" is exactly the same thing as plain salt, kosher salt, pickling salt, etc.... Sodium Chloride (NaCl). There is no difference other than the exorbitant price that pet stores charge for "Aquarium Salt". Dora... why are you adding so much salt to your tank all the time? Unless you have livebearers, that level it too high for everyday use for freshwater fish. One teaspoon per 500G is enough to provide osmoregulatory system assistance and improve gill function from the chloride in salt. Most water sources have that very low level of salt in it already. Plus, the tap water dechlors use salts to break down the chlorine into other salts also, so for regular FW fish, the addition of salt to a tank is not really needed... well maybe for very soft water sources. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! From what I'm reading you can safely use just plain salt, and you may be able to safely use iodized plain salt - but I still prefer to use aquarium salt. I add two teaspoons per 2 and a half gallons of water, and at that level a big carton of aquarium salt will last you quite awhile. The human salt lives on the bathroom sink as well, and it doesn't stay uncaked long enough to get used up! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Huss" <cheese911@... <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.com> > To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:28 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I had read somewhere to just use plain salt but I was at the store and it was only 1.99 for 16 oz. So with the two different types of fish I'm kinda stuck. Would it be better to leave them in the same tank or put my two mollies and shark in the 2.5 gallon? those are my only options right now. I know it sounds really cruel but fish stores around here dont take fish back and I cannot get a bigger tank. It was hard enough to talk my hubby into getting this one! :-I I do have water sitting I have to wait and test it tomorrow for the first 24 hours. The stress coat plus also removes ammonia so I think thats why it went down so far. Thats why I used it. I know I'm doing to much too fast but I dont know what is most important to treat first. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:17:48 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! You need to do a tap water baseline test. Fill up a gallon bucket with tapwater. Test it. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait another 24 hoursand test it again. We need to find out if the pH of your tap is going upfrom 7.5 to 9.0 or if something in your tank is raising it. Usually, the pHout of the tap will go down after the water is exposed to air but if yourwater source is a well, then they sometimes have higher levels of CO2 in thewater which will outgas after the water is exposed to air. CO2 will lowerthe pH so that could be why your pH is lower right out the tap and thenrises once the water is exposed to air. The only way to know is to do thetap water baseline tests.If you are reading all posts made to the group, you'll see I just replied toanother member about "Aquarium Salt". There is no need to buy that again.It's the same as the salt in the Morton Salt or non-brand name salt that youbuy at the store for 35 cents a pound. Further, when "salting" a tank, youshould not add the full dose at once but rather no more than 1/3rd at atime, every 12 hours, until you reach the full dose over the course of 24hours. Adding a full dose at once can cause osmotic shock to the fish andalso kill off your nitrifying bacteria... although in your case, your tankisn't cycled yet so you don't have to worry about that issue.The Stress Coat probably wasn't needed and I don't add all of themstress-this or slime-that type products to my tanks. It's just addingunnecessary chemicals into a closed environment. This is why I recommendedgetting Prime as it doesn't have any of the unneeded chemicals in it.I have used Melafix and it has worked for me in the past but you have toworry that you are doing too much, too fast, which can also cause problems.None of these products answers your bigger problems of having incompatiblefish (cool water and tropicals) and not having a large enough tank. All themedicines or water treatments in the world will not fix those problems.Please, for you and your fish sake... and any other members reading this...ask us here first what you should buy/use instead of getting conned out ofyour money at the pet stores. Most of the time, it was their bad advicethat got you into trouble in the first place. I'll try to remember when telling someone to use a "pinch of salt to protectagainst nitrite poisoning"... that I mean plain old table salt.... plain oriodized when only using a pinch.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:29 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Okay so I made a trip to the pet store today. They sent me home with someAquarium salt (I put in 6tbl spoons) some stress coat + for the ammonia andto help with the stress. I put in 6 tsp. They also gave me some melafix tohelp my shark with pop eye so i put in 3 tsp of it. I also picked up somedrift wood to help with the hardness. I havent put that in yet. These are mytap water results: PH= 7.5 NO2-=<.3mg Ammonia=0ml GH=14 and here are my newtank conditions (this mornings): ph= 9(9) no2-= .8(1.6) ammonia = 0(1.5)GH=12 (14) which is alot better.As you can see my tap water is extremely hard. I had orignally filled mytank with my tap water. thought thats why I was having so many problems.Apparently its just the hardness. what would be messing with my ph?So this is what I am going to continue doing: Continue treating the pop eyewith melafix for the next 6 days, contiune with the Quick Cure for Ich for 1more day unless needed and add the drift wood. Any other suggestions?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks_____________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:17:48 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:32:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:54:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30624	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Dora

If you're still around, Aquatek on Burnet near Anderson Lane is about the best place in town to shop for fish. Place on 183 and Duval whose name always escapes me is decent, and River City place off 183 on Pond Springs Road (can't remember the name of the little street that runs by it off 183) is decent though small and specializing in certain fish taht aren't what I have. If I were you I'd call teh various places and see who has the fish I want before driving in here, in addition to learning where the fish stores are before I leave the house - but maybe you really just want the drive. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzy Snowflake" <grammypat@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:23 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey Dora Any chance you are on line bright and early today? I am heading to Austin to look for some Sydthmunki and wondered if you had any recommendations on where to shop? I am sick of College station Pet notso smart. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30625	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Dora

If I were going to Austin, I'd definitely visit River City Aquatics 12108 Roxie Dr Austin, TX 78729 I think the Sids are going to be pretty hard to find at a LFS however. Don't forget to get six or more, they like to be in a group, need at least a 36" tank and tankmates should be VERY peaceful. I agree with www.loaches.com <http://www.loaches.com/> as the best way to find a source accessible to you. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzy Snowflake Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey Dora Any chance you are on line bright and early today? I am heading to Austin to look for some Sydthmunki and wondered if you had any recommendations on where to shop? I am sick of College station Pet notso smart. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30626	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

FW fish are exactly that.. fresh water. Unless there is an illness or other medicinal reason to use salt, it should not be used in an ongoing or permanent basis for FW fish. God doesn't add it, so I tend to think He's a better fish keeper than I am. LOL Using it all of the time causes osmoregulatory stress to fish that are not supposed to have salt. Go to my blog and read all of the articles, both pro and con about using salt, the osmoregulatory system, etc. and you'll likely come to the same conclusion. Now, if you had calcium chloride and added it in much smaller doses, then that would be more beneficial as it is the chloride that improves gill function in fish where the excessive sodium only causes kidney problems... just like for us mere humans. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! Lenny: My fish seem to be doing well on the amount of salt I'm putting in. One of you previously said it was bad for tetras but I've not been able to find that stated elsewhere. What specifically would it do to them? If it hurts nothing, I'm going to go on doing it, since they've not had any problems with disease since I've been adding it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I'll reiterate once again that "Aquarium Salt" is exactly the same thing as plain salt, kosher salt, pickling salt, etc.... Sodium Chloride (NaCl). There is no difference other than the exorbitant price that pet stores charge for "Aquarium Salt". Dora... why are you adding so much salt to your tank all the time? Unless you have livebearers, that level it too high for everyday use for freshwater fish. One teaspoon per 500G is enough to provide osmoregulatory system assistance and improve gill function from the chloride in salt. Most water sources have that very low level of salt in it already. Plus, the tap water dechlors use salts to break down the chlorine into other salts also, so for regular FW fish, the addition of salt to a tank is not really needed... well maybe for very soft water sources. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! From what I'm reading you can safely use just plain salt, and you may be able to safely use iodized plain salt - but I still prefer to use aquarium salt. I add two teaspoons per 2 and a half gallons of water, and at that level a big carton of aquarium salt will last you quite awhile. The human salt lives on the bathroom sink as well, and it doesn't stay uncaked long enough to get used up! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Huss" <cheese911@... <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.com> <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.com> > To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:28 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! I had read somewhere to just use plain salt but I was at the store and it was only 1.99 for 16 oz. So with the two different types of fish I'm kinda stuck. Would it be better to leave them in the same tank or put my two mollies and shark in the 2.5 gallon? those are my only options right now. I know it sounds really cruel but fish stores around here dont take fish back and I cannot get a bigger tank. It was hard enough to talk my hubby into getting this one! :-I I do have water sitting I have to wait and test it tomorrow for the first 24 hours. The stress coat plus also removes ammonia so I think thats why it went down so far. Thats why I used it. I know I'm doing to much too fast but I dont know what is most important to treat first. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:17:48 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! You need to do a tap water baseline test. Fill up a gallon bucket with tapwater. Test it. Wait 24 hours and test it again. Wait another 24 hoursand test it again. We need to find out if the pH of your tap is going upfrom 7.5 to 9.0 or if something in your tank is raising it. Usually, the pHout of the tap will go down after the water is exposed to air but if yourwater source is a well, then they sometimes have higher levels of CO2 in thewater which will outgas after the water is exposed to air. CO2 will lowerthe pH so that could be why your pH is lower right out the tap and thenrises once the water is exposed to air. The only way to know is to do thetap water baseline tests.If you are reading all posts made to the group, you'll see I just replied toanother member about "Aquarium Salt". There is no need to buy that again.It's the same as the salt in the Morton Salt or non-brand name salt that youbuy at the store for 35 cents a pound. Further, when "salting" a tank, youshould not add the full dose at once but rather no more than 1/3rd at atime, every 12 hours, until you reach the full dose over the course of 24hours. Adding a full dose at once can cause osmotic shock to the fish andalso kill off your nitrifying bacteria... although in your case, your tankisn't cycled yet so you don't have to worry about that issue.The Stress Coat probably wasn't needed and I don't add all of themstress-this or slime-that type products to my tanks. It's just addingunnecessary chemicals into a closed environment. This is why I recommendedgetting Prime as it doesn't have any of the unneeded chemicals in it.I have used Melafix and it has worked for me in the past but you have toworry that you are doing too much, too fast, which can also cause problems.None of these products answers your bigger problems of having incompatiblefish (cool water and tropicals) and not having a large enough tank. All themedicines or water treatments in the world will not fix those problems.Please, for you and your fish sake... and any other members reading this...ask us here first what you should buy/use instead of getting conned out ofyour money at the pet stores. Most of the time, it was their bad advicethat got you into trouble in the first place. I'll try to remember when telling someone to use a "pinch of salt to protectagainst nitrite poisoning"... that I mean plain old table salt.... plain oriodized when only using a pinch.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:29 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Okay so I made a trip to the pet store today. They sent me home with someAquarium salt (I put in 6tbl spoons) some stress coat + for the ammonia andto help with the stress. I put in 6 tsp. They also gave me some melafix tohelp my shark with pop eye so i put in 3 tsp of it. I also picked up somedrift wood to help with the hardness. I havent put that in yet. These are mytap water results: PH= 7.5 NO2-=<.3mg Ammonia=0ml GH=14 and here are my newtank conditions (this mornings): ph= 9(9) no2-= .8(1.6) ammonia = 0(1.5)GH=12 (14) which is alot better.As you can see my tap water is extremely hard. I had orignally filled mytank with my tap water. thought thats why I was having so many problems.Apparently its just the hardness. what would be messing with my ph?So this is what I am going to continue doing: Continue treating the pop eyewith melafix for the next 6 days, contiune with the Quick Cure for Ich for 1more day unless needed and add the drift wood. Any other suggestions?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:48:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!I think others have already replied. Your NO2 (NitrIte) and NH3/NH4(Ammonia)are way too high.... especially your ammonia with such a high pH.The higherthe pH and temp, the more dangerous ammonia becomes. You need toIMMEDIATELYget a product called Prime which will detoxify the ammonia. Adda pinch ofsalt to the tank which will help protect the fish fromnitritepoisoning.Next, you need to decide whether you want tropical fish orgoldfish. Theyneed different water temperatures with goldfish beingcool/cold water fish,not tropical temps.Unless you have immediate plans fora much larger tank, then you shouldbring the goldfish back since they gettoo big for a 35G tank anyhow. Irecommend minimum of a 55G 4' tank for twofancy goldfish... much larger forthe long-bodied variety.What is wrong withyour tap water that you need bottle water? Is the bottlewater what you havein your tank now that has the high pH and hardnesslevels?What is your tapwater parameters... right out the tap and then aftersitting in a bucket for24 and then 48 hours?Post new tank water parameters with your next answeralso.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:31 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Help! Waterchemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!Hello all. I feel completly awful right now.I just got my master test kitin the mail and tested my water. Here are mystats:35 gallon fresh watercycling for 2 weeksfish have been in for 2additional weeks2 fancy tail golfish2 mollies1 irredecent sharkTreating forick with Quick CurePH= 9.0!GH=14!NO2= 1.6KH= 13.5NH3/NH4= 1.5I did a 30%water change. I want to do more but dont have anymore bottledwater left. Iwill get some tonight and do more in the morning. Also is itbetter to treatthe ick or filter the junk floating around from the waterchange?What can Ido now to help?Thanks_____________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080924-1, 09/24/2008Tested on: 9/24/2008 9:17:48 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:32:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080925-0, 09/25/2008 Tested on: 9/25/2008 10:54:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/27/2008 9:56:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/27/2008 10:55:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30627	From: uttam kumar	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

i just reccomend you to put some pictures.......................... --- On Fri, 9/26/08, henry puryear <henrypuryear@...> wrote: From: henry puryear <henrypuryear@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 10:59 PM The best thing to do is get a good quality submersible heater, like a 75 watt. Check with everyone else here. They may cost more, but are much better and easier to use than the hang on the tank. They even have what temp you can set it at, so there is never a worry. What size is your tank again? From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. well the outside air is hitting somewhere in the 50's. I guess my heater is too small then because it is only 25 watts. I'm guessing i need 60 watts then. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30628	From: Saps Gal	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

I have added a few pics to my album This is the critter from a distance http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4&m=s&o=2 This is a close up of it (zoomed 200%) http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3&m=s&o=2 There is also another organism growing on the same rock which you might be able to identify http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2&m=s&o=2 and the same thing zoomed http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1&m=s&o=2 I have done searches on google and cant find anything looking similar, but at the same time the biological names of them are not familiar with me as yet. I had already visited the link Lenny added by Julian Sprung, its interesting but doesn't help in identifying these things and I have bought a book called the Conscientious Aquarist by Robert Fenner, this was recommended by a Reef keeper in my lfs, he says its his bible. Also one last thing, I have read that people look at the live rock at night with a flashlight/torch....does this need to be dimmed in any way so not to shock or scare the fish? Thanks in advance for reading and any help MollyM aka Julie «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: CanAm To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? Recent Activity a.. 17New Members b.. 21New Photos c.. 1New Links Visit Your Group Yahoo! Groups Find balance between nutrition, activity & well-being. Featured Y! Groups and category pages. There is something for everyone. Health Groups for people over 40 Join people who are staying in shape. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30629	From: Alison	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hard Water

Thanks, I used to have a water softener so it never was a problem. Vinegar is so handy! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > When doing your next PWC, after lowering the water level a few inches, take > a rag and use plain white vinegar. You don't want the rag so wet that > vinegar is dripping into your tank but just wet enough so that the acidic > vinegar will break down the hard water buildup. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alison > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hard Water > > My tank gets rings around the perimeter from the hard water, I can't get it > off, any tips? > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 > Tested on: 9/26/2008 1:03:48 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30630	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

Hello, really can’t say with a closer eyeballing, but it’s either a small featherduster or a type of anemone From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 2:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I have added a few pics to my album This is the critter from a distance HYPERLINK "http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4&m=s& o=2"http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4&m =s&o=2 This is a close up of it (zoomed 200%) HYPERLINK "http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3&m=s& o=2"http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3&m =s&o=2 There is also another organism growing on the same rock which you might be able to identify HYPERLINK "http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2&m=s& o=2"http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2&m =s&o=2 and the same thing zoomed HYPERLINK "http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1&m=s& o=2"http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1&m =s&o=2 I have done searches on google and cant find anything looking similar, but at the same time the biological names of them are not familiar with me as yet. I had already visited the link Lenny added by Julian Sprung, its interesting but doesn't help in identifying these things and I have bought a book called the Conscientious Aquarist by Robert Fenner, this was recommended by a Reef keeper in my lfs, he says its his bible. Also one last thing, I have read that people look at the live rock at night with a flashlight/torch....does this need to be dimmed in any way so not to shock or scare the fish? Thanks in advance for reading and any help MollyM aka Julie «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: CanAm To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? Recent Activity a.. 17New Members b.. 21New Photos c.. 1New Links Visit Your Group Yahoo! Groups Find balance between nutrition, activity & well-being. Featured Y! Groups and category pages. There is something for everyone. Health Groups for people over 40 Join people who are staying in shape. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30631	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

I was leaning toward feather duster myself, but I am not a marine guy so I really cannot say. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of henry puryear Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 3:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? Hello, really can't say with a closer eyeballing, but it's either a small featherduster or a type of anemone From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 2:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I have added a few pics to my album This is the critter from a distance HYPERLINK "http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4&m=s& o=2"http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4&m =s&o=2 This is a close up of it (zoomed 200%) HYPERLINK "http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3&m=s& o=2"http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3&m =s&o=2 There is also another organism growing on the same rock which you might be able to identify HYPERLINK "http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2&m=s& o=2"http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2&m =s&o=2 and the same thing zoomed HYPERLINK "http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1&m=s& o=2"http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1&m =s&o=2 I have done searches on google and cant find anything looking similar, but at the same time the biological names of them are not familiar with me as yet. I had already visited the link Lenny added by Julian Sprung, its interesting but doesn't help in identifying these things and I have bought a book called the Conscientious Aquarist by Robert Fenner, this was recommended by a Reef keeper in my lfs, he says its his bible. Also one last thing, I have read that people look at the live rock at night with a flashlight/torch....does this need to be dimmed in any way so not to shock or scare the fish? Thanks in advance for reading and any help MollyM aka Julie «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: CanAm To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? Recent Activity a.. 17New Members b.. 21New Photos c.. 1New Links Visit Your Group Yahoo! Groups Find balance between nutrition, activity & well-being. Featured Y! Groups and category pages. There is something for everyone. Health Groups for people over 40 Join people who are staying in shape. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

Molly aka Julie, Did you click on each picture, or open them in new windows/tabs, on the page I had referred you to? Those thumbnail pics on the main article open up into much large pics on their own pages/tabs so hopefully you can compare them better. I don't think the occasional flashlight to spy on your fish/critters will shock them to any degree that you need to worry about their ill health or anything like that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 3:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I was leaning toward feather duster myself, but I am not a marine guy so I really cannot say. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of henry puryear Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 3:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? Hello, really can't say with a closer eyeballing, but it's either a small featherduster or a type of anemone From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 2:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I have added a few pics to my album This is the critter from a distance HYPERLINK "http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4&m=s& > &m=s& <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4&m=s& > &m=s&> o=2"http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4&m> &m <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4&m> &m> =s&o=2 This is a close up of it (zoomed 200%) HYPERLINK "http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3&m=s& > &m=s& <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3&m=s& > &m=s&> o=2"http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3&m> &m <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3&m> &m> =s&o=2 There is also another organism growing on the same rock which you might be able to identify HYPERLINK "http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2&m=s& > &m=s& <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2&m=s& > &m=s&> o=2"http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2&m> &m <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2&m> &m> =s&o=2 and the same thing zoomed HYPERLINK "http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1&m=s& > &m=s& <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1&m=s& > &m=s&> o=2"http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1&m> &m <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1&m> &m> =s&o=2 I have done searches on google and cant find anything looking similar, but at the same time the biological names of them are not familiar with me as yet. I had already visited the link Lenny added by Julian Sprung, its interesting but doesn't help in identifying these things and I have bought a book called the Conscientious Aquarist by Robert Fenner, this was recommended by a Reef keeper in my lfs, he says its his bible. Also one last thing, I have read that people look at the live rock at night with a flashlight/torch....does this need to be dimmed in any way so not to shock or scare the fish? Thanks in advance for reading and any help MollyM aka Julie «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: CanAm To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/27/2008 3:19:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30633	From: Chris	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

Since Ich burries itself in the skin, should I do anything for the fish after the last spores fall off to help them heal easier? Is the a neosporin for fish?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30634	From: Chris	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I'm gonna get pounced..

Last night I added 4 tbsp of salt to the 20 gallon tank. Today I put in a new 150 watt heater and set it for 86. The tank temp is now 86. I did a 25% water change (I couldn't do anymore with out having to turn off the heater while it warmed the tank) and slowly added water to the tank so the water temp would atleast remain stable. I siphoned about 90% of the junk on the bottom of the tank. The siphon really didn't pull much more than fish droppings except for a small amount of misc debris (food and dead plant matter). Tomorrow I'll do another 25%. I'm also gonna abstain from feeding the fish for now, but I'm worried that might not be good for my live bearers since about the sword tails, and a few of the guppies are pregnant.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I'm gonna get pounced..

For others reading this, it's not good to either lower or raise the temp too much, too fast for fish that are not used to fluctuating temps. Some fish in the wild and/or outdoor pond fish are used to it so it doesn't stress them but for our pet fish, in indoor tanks, which are used to more stable temps, then it's best to change their water temps more slowly. No more than 1F per two hours and no more than a 2-3F per day is recommended. Even for an Ich infestation, make sure you do not exceed the 1F per two hours or you could stress the fish even more than they already are. If you aren't absolutely sure of what you are doing, please ask first. There's not much advice we can give after you've already done it. Chris, You are probably better off if your livebearers do NOT have any surviving fry anyhow since you are having cycling issues and many other issues with your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 3:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. I'm gonna get pounced.. Last night I added 4 tbsp of salt to the 20 gallon tank. Today I put in a new 150 watt heater and set it for 86. The tank temp is now 86. I did a 25% water change (I couldn't do anymore with out having to turn off the heater while it warmed the tank) and slowly added water to the tank so the water temp would atleast remain stable. I siphoned about 90% of the junk on the bottom of the tank. The siphon really didn't pull much more than fish droppings except for a small amount of misc debris (food and dead plant matter). Tomorrow I'll do another 25%. I'm also gonna abstain from feeding the fish for now, but I'm worried that might not be good for my live bearers since about the sword tails, and a few of the guppies are pregnant. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080926-0, 09/26/2008 Tested on: 9/27/2008 4:09:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30636	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Dora

No sids to be found. No zebra either. I came home with one skunk loach. I hope he likes snails. People at Aquatek were very nice. I got some plants and then I fell for some Black Neon Tetras and 3 little jelly bean tetras, so they came home with me too. Now I think I am at capacity. When I got home my mail order plants had arrived so I will be busy with fish tanks tomorrow. My husband will be home on Tuesday, he's been gone for 3 months and we had NO fish when he left. Hence my need to drive 110 miles to find more fish before he gets home. Think he'll believe the first 2 mated and gave birth to all these different fish??? Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30637	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Fish store fun

Aquatek really had a nice selection of different fish. I absolutely fell for a pair of Mowanda's (sp) Now to do some research and see if they are something I can have. They are cichlids but supposed to be ok in communities. They were beautiful, about 4" fish with pearl gold and purple markings. A breeding pair yet. Maybe if Hubby gets called out again I can sneak in a 55G, put it in the bedroom with clothes over the top and he'll never know!!!!! Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30638	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fish store fun

here is a link http://dwarfcichlid.com/Pelvicachromis_subocellatus.php Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30639	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.

No, you need not do anything more for the fish. When the cysts break open to release their load, the fish will heal the area themselves. Raising the temperature speeds up their lifecycle. The salt will help kill the parasite when it is in its free-swimming stage looking for a host. The normal lifecycle is about 7 days at normal aquarium temperatures. When you raise the temperature, this will shrink to 3-4 days depending on the ending temperature of the water. The net result is that you have a shorter period when they become free-swimming to find a host to complete that phase of the lifecycle. The salt disrupts their osmotic process, which weakens them and will end in a premature death. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. Since Ich burries itself in the skin, should I do anything for the fish after the last spores fall off to help them heal easier? Is the a neosporin for fish? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30640	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fish store fun

They will do well in a community tank, but it is best to keep them in a species tank where you can easily have 3 or 4 spawns of the original pair living together. They are quite similar to the krib, _Pelvicachromis pulcher_ of which much more has been written in the popular press of the hobby. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzy Snowflake Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish store fun Aquatek really had a nice selection of different fish. I absolutely fell for a pair of Mowanda's (sp) Now to do some research and see if they are something I can have. They are cichlids but supposed to be ok in communities. They were beautiful, about 4" fish with pearl gold and purple markings. A breeding pair yet. Maybe if Hubby gets called out again I can sneak in a 55G, put it in the bedroom with clothes over the top and he'll never know!!!!! Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30641	From: canampc	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccomend.)

Ray, honestly I try the treatment of algae with Excel, it remove the hair algae yes , but they came back 3 to 4 months after. I thing the only way to get ride of them is with chlorine, or permanganate , of course not in the aquarium, and you have to place them after in a tank that have not been contaminated with those algae too. The crypto was not affected at all, only the Valisneria. I don't those algae problem in my tank with elodea, so I can not say about excel with them.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30642	From: CanAm	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: The Excel was : Re: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend.

Lenny, I will not go too far with the treatment of Ich with Excel, I will wait the result of the experiment we conduct in 3 large fish store. ( of course I need cobay out of my house since I do not have case of Ich in enough quantity to make experiment. ) I am more prone to treat the ich only with heat ( no salt ) when it's appropriate, but not all the fish have the same physiology, so in some case the heat or the salt is not appropriate . But just an example, the dose of 1 drop per gal. of malachite suggested by many manufacturer, is 4 time the dosage need to treat the Ich, so it's why you have many fish who do not support the treatment, when I suggest for some reason the malachite I suggest 4 drop per 10 gal. at this dose any fish can support it. The excel, malachite copper, are only poisonous if you reach the lethal dosage. Same as the salt or the eat. Too much kill the fish. I will came back in few month with chart and mote from my experiment, but for now let just say than, yes pure excel can kill the ich, now we have to make sure it will not kill the fish too Jerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30643	From: CanAm	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Chris problems

Chris , correct me if I'm wrong 1- it's your first aquarium, 2- you have a limited budget 3- your aquarium is not cycled 4- you do not have very expensive fish So if you really want enjoy this hobby, why you don't focus on the cycling of the tank, make a good start and just forgot the fish you have already. When your tank will be in top shape, it will be the time to add the fish you want. If I was you I will learn the basic of the hobby before try to make your aquaponic thing.. since the aquaponic is a combination of fish keeping and hydroponics, I will learn the base of both of them before mix them. That's my opinion, you do what you want, but it's not looking you are in the good direction. My suggestion, start 2 aquarium, one to experiment the hydroponics, and one to learn fish keeping.. Jerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30644	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Jerry, Yes, that Hair Algae can be tough even though Excel will act on most other algae's quite effectively, even including Black Beard Algae. If you're not familiar with the use of Excel with Hair Algae, you should know you need to use double the dose. If you'd rather not use that much, use Hydrogen Peroxide for Hair Algae, in the quantity of 2 Tbs (or 1 oz.) per 10 gallons, dissolved (spread) well as its being applied to the water column, or this Peroxide can be used topically on the Hair Algae with a syringe (eye dropper) not needing as much of this oxydizer; its less stressful on fish than the oxydizer Potassium Permanganate. While Potassium Permanganate (KMnO4) is considered safe at concentrations of 1/8 grain per gallon, if the water is alkaline (or only even very slightly acid), a precipitate of Manganese (MnO2nH2O) may form which can damage the gills of the fishes. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30645	From: CanAm	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Ray, Of course I'm use to Excel, ( Go on the Tom Bar forum you will see some exchange betwen me and him 2 or 3 years ago about it ) I never say it was not efficient, I said the algae came back after 3 to 4 months, same as the treatment with peroxide. The treatment for Excel is 2 to 3 x the initial dose ( not the daily , people always confuse) so 20 to 30 ml for 20 gal. , every 2 day for 3 doses. At 3 times the dose (30 ml / 20 gal ) , some fish may gasp air at the surface, and some cat fish will show sign of distress. P.S. when I mention Permanganate, it's at higher concentration ( my note are in the fish room, close for the night ) and not in the tank with the fish. Copper Sulfate is good too , but not in the tank. ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... Jerry, Yes, that Hair Algae can be tough even though Excel will act on most other algae's quite effectively, even including Black Beard Algae. If you're not familiar with the use of Excel with Hair Algae, you should know you need to use double the dose. If you'd rather not use that much, use Hydrogen Peroxide for Hair Algae, in the quantity of 2 Tbs (or 1 oz.) per 10 gallons, dissolved (spread) well as its being applied to the water column, or this Peroxide can be used topically on the Hair Algae with a syringe (eye dropper) not needing as much of this oxydizer; its less stressful on fish than the oxydizer Potassium Permanganate. While Potassium Permanganate (KMnO4) is considered safe at concentrations of 1/8 grain per gallon, if the water is alkaline (or only even very slightly acid), a precipitate of Manganese (MnO2nH2O) may form which can damage the gills of the fishes. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30646	From: CanAm	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Ray, I just notice grain per gal. you still use this old measurement in US ? :) Here, I don't see it since my day at university, and it's a long time. So 1/8 make 2 ppm , so it's half the lethal dose. But the problem with the permanganate it's affected by the organic dissolve in the water, So after let say 1 hour you may have to add more if it's the case, the way to judge it it's with the pink color of the water. It's why someone need experience, and it's why I suggest to not use it in a tank. ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... Jerry, Yes, that Hair Algae can be tough even though Excel will act on most other algae's quite effectively, even including Black Beard Algae. If you're not familiar with the use of Excel with Hair Algae, you should know you need to use double the dose. If you'd rather not use that much, use Hydrogen Peroxide for Hair Algae, in the quantity of 2 Tbs (or 1 oz.) per 10 gallons, dissolved (spread) well as its being applied to the water column, or this Peroxide can be used topically on the Hair Algae with a syringe (eye dropper) not needing as much of this oxydizer; its less stressful on fish than the oxydizer Potassium Permanganate. While Potassium Permanganate (KMnO4) is considered safe at concentrations of 1/8 grain per gallon, if the water is alkaline (or only even very slightly acid), a precipitate of Manganese (MnO2nH2O) may form which can damage the gills of the fishes. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30647	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

Is this a salt water tank? Because the first one looks darned like coral. Google coral in google images. Coral is a colony of little organisms. I can't even make out the second one. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saps Gal" <sapsgal@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I have added a few pics to my album This is the critter from a distance http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4&m=s&o=2 This is a close up of it (zoomed 200%) http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3&m=s&o=2 There is also another organism growing on the same rock which you might be able to identify http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2&m=s&o=2 and the same thing zoomed http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1&m=s&o=2 I have done searches on google and cant find anything looking similar, but at the same time the biological names of them are not familiar with me as yet. I had already visited the link Lenny added by Julian Sprung, its interesting but doesn't help in identifying these things and I have bought a book called the Conscientious Aquarist by Robert Fenner, this was recommended by a Reef keeper in my lfs, he says its his bible. Also one last thing, I have read that people look at the live rock at night with a flashlight/torch....does this need to be dimmed in any way so not to shock or scare the fish? Thanks in advance for reading and any help MollyM aka Julie «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: CanAm To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? Recent Activity a.. 17New Members b.. 21New Photos c.. 1New Links Visit Your Group Yahoo! Groups Find balance between nutrition, activity & well-being. Featured Y! Groups and category pages. There is something for everyone. Health Groups for people over 40 Join people who are staying in shape. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30648	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Dora

From the sound of it, he might - LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzy Snowflake" <grammypat@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hey Dora No sids to be found. No zebra either. I came home with one skunk loach. I hope he likes snails. People at Aquatek were very nice. I got some plants and then I fell for some Black Neon Tetras and 3 little jelly bean tetras, so they came home with me too. Now I think I am at capacity. When I got home my mail order plants had arrived so I will be busy with fish tanks tomorrow. My husband will be home on Tuesday, he's been gone for 3 months and we had NO fish when he left. Hence my need to drive 110 miles to find more fish before he gets home. Think he'll believe the first 2 mated and gave birth to all these different fish??? Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30649	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Dora

Yup, that's the River City place on Pond Springs Road. Grin. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 10:09 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hey Dora If I were going to Austin, I'd definitely visit River City Aquatics 12108 Roxie Dr Austin, TX 78729 I think the Sids are going to be pretty hard to find at a LFS however. Don't forget to get six or more, they like to be in a group, need at least a 36" tank and tankmates should be VERY peaceful. I agree with www.loaches.com <http://www.loaches.com/> as the best way to find a source accessible to you. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzy Snowflake Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey Dora Any chance you are on line bright and early today? I am heading to Austin to look for some Sydthmunki and wondered if you had any recommendations on where to shop? I am sick of College station Pet notso smart. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30650	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Jerry, Alright, I understand that none of these products we are discussing may not kill off these algaes entirely (or do they?). Whether a resurgence of the original algae colonies or new ones, without changing the tank conditions these algaes are going to come back -- but then this is not unexpected. They would probably have not grown to any proportions if the conditions were not in their favor, and to eliminate them and keep the conditions similar is to invite other colonies. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30651	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Jerry, If you have access to medicinal quality crystal Permanganate, you can make your own fresh solution; the reason for my dry measurement. However, as you must realize, it can be bought already made up in solution over the LFS counter, being more convenient although you don't know how it was previously stored, even though being light-sensitive its offered in solution in semi-opaque plastic bottles (not entirely light-proof in a sunny exposure). Yes, I'm fully aware that one problem with Permanganate is that it loses its effectiveness in the presence of organic matter, but then you would expect it to, as it liberates its oxygen content very actively in the compound's process of its organic oxidation. The problem come in when being unsure of exactly how fast its effectiveness is being used up -- which will vary considerably (not necessarily 1 Hour) depending on the total amount of any and all organic matter present. I know you are basically saying something similar. An advantage to this though, once you become accustomed to this chemical's half-life duration is that its effects are not cumulative and may be repeated after the pink/purple tone turns to magenta/brown. Once it turns yellow, its completely ineffective, so additions of it need to be made before this stage, The trick is to know when its safe to re-apply (i.e., when to know at what point the chemical has lost strength, and how much strength), which is not easy if one's unfamiliar with it, as you've brought out. Again, you undoubtedly know these advantages and shortfalls -- but I point these things out for the benefit of any members following this thread -- which I do the same for in other threads I participate in. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30652	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Ray, where you get this medicinal grade ? are you referring to the U.S.P grade ? ( U.S. Pharmacopeia ? ) A chemical grade acceptable for food, drug, or medicinal use. For my part I use Reagent or A.C.S. grade as the U.S.P. contain too much impurity. Now the measurement system, I use the metric system, know also a the scientific one. And it's very much aquarium related, I means is so much related to water, 1 cm * 1 cm = 1 ml = 1 g , water froze at 0 and boil at 100, you do not need to divide foot in 12, or pound in 16. or pound in 7000 grain With your dry measurement by example, you can use the gram (g ) or the mg. Let's compare : Metric system : 1 gram = 1,000 mg 1 liter of water weighs 1,000 grams or 1 kg 1 liter of water = 1,000,000 milligrams 1 milligram in one liter of water = 1 milligram per liter or one part in a million parts ( ppm ) Grain System : 1,000,000 grains = 143 pounds One grain per gallon = 143 pounds per million gallons 1,000,000 gallons (water) = 8,340 pounds Who you can even remember something like this in your head.. And what to say about the Water Hardness, the german and french have their own system, who need a calculator to translate, much much simple to use the ppm no ? .......Jerry, If you have access to medicinal quality crystal Permanganate, you can make your own fresh solution; the reason for my dry measurement. .........

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30653	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

Yes it's a reef aquarium, it's not a coral, it's a worm, I will came back on the ID ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? > Is this a salt water tank? Because the first one looks darned like > coral. > Google coral in google images. Coral is a colony of little organisms. > > I can't even make out the second one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Saps Gal" <sapsgal@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 1:21 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be > please? > > > I have added a few pics to my album > This is the critter from a distance > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=4&m=s&o=2 > This is a close up of it (zoomed 200%) > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=3&m=s&o=2 > > There is also another organism growing on the same rock which you might be > able to identify > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=2&m=s&o=2 > and the same thing zoomed > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/a025?b=1&m=s&o=2 > > I have done searches on google and cant find anything looking similar, but > at the same time the biological names of them are not familiar with me as > yet. > > I had already visited the link Lenny added by Julian Sprung, its > interesting > but doesn't help in identifying these things and I have bought a book > called > the Conscientious Aquarist by Robert Fenner, this was recommended by a > Reef > keeper in my lfs, he says its his bible. > > Also one last thing, I have read that people look at the live rock at > night > with a flashlight/torch....does this need to be dimmed in any way so not > to > shock or scare the fish? > > Thanks in advance for reading and any help > > MollyM aka Julie > «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» > «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» > «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» > ----- Original Message ----- > From: CanAm > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:35 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be > please? > > > Recent Activity > a.. 17New Members > b.. 21New Photos > c.. 1New Links > Visit Your Group > Yahoo! Groups > Find balance > > between nutrition, > > activity & well-being. > > Featured Y! Groups > and category pages. > > There is something > > for everyone. > > Health Groups > for people over 40 > > Join people who are > > staying in shape. > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30654	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

On this one Ray I'm 100 % with you , good practice and water condition will avoid them. Because with those algae, better avoid them at first than fight them. But you know when someone give you a plants hard to find, it's not always appealing to sterilize it before put it in the tank, usually you want to safe it, Even more if you pay the big price and high UPS delivery charge ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:31 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... Jerry, Alright, I understand that none of these products we are discussing may not kill off these algaes entirely (or do they?). Whether a resurgence of the original algae colonies or new ones, without changing the tank conditions these algaes are going to come back -- but then this is not unexpected. They would probably have not grown to any proportions if the conditions were not in their favor, and to eliminate them and keep the conditions similar is to invite other colonies. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30655	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Jerry, I know what you mean exactly when it comes to an occasion of getting rare plants. You certainly wouldn't want to risk dipping the plants in a bleach solution, especially too when there exists the chance of dipping a bit too deeply, subjecting the roots to the solution. But then, by this we are saying that any similar algae appearing after such an occasion as introducing new plants may be a new colony and not necessarily an older one reviving from a previous attempt to eliminate it. As I'm sure you must know too, Erythromycin is used to eliminate Blue-Green Algae -- of course, not really an algae but a Cyanobacteria. But the reason I bring this up is that a short while ago I received a first-hand report from another moderator on a different group that with using Furan II in the treatment of their fish, their Hair Algae was eliminated. Might be something to look into. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30656	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Jerry, Yes, I'm referring to the U.S.P. grade -- only as its one possible easy source of obtaining it by some of our members who still have friendly local town pharmacists to go to, to get their aquarium medications. The larger chain stores (CVS, Walgreen, Rite-Aid, etc.) though, would never consider dispensing anything that didn't have a prescription. Thanks for the info that this source might contain impurities. Another reliable source would be from a photographic store or supply house, as its used in certain photography development applications. This too may have impurities, but then, I'm only pointing out sources to obtain it with the members' convenience in mind. Undoubtedly, the metric system is more accurate. I often use it myself at times in double-checking myself in a measurement. Here in the States though, as opposed to many other areas in the world, most people still prefer not to use it and fall back on what has become most familiar to them (inches, ounces, quarts, etc.), even including degrees of general hardness. I, too, prefer including dGH, but with it I always include ppm whenever writing it to others.. Unless I know I'm posting to a hobbyist used to the Centigrade (Celcius) system, I'll almost always use Fahrenheit (occasionally using both) as to do otherwise in this country is like speaking Greek. There was a push recently here in the States to use the metric system, but it seems to have fallen to the way-side. Hard to get all these old dogs learning new tricks <g>. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30657	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Good info Ray, I'm not surprise Furan II like Erythromycin is also use to treat G(+), but since I can get 20 pills of ( Human) Erythromycin For les than 4$ no need to tell you what I choose . Erythromycin is more effective with G(+) bacteria than G(-). It is one of the safest antibiotics, that does not affect plants, fish or Nitrifying Bacteria. Blue-green bacteria are G(-) bacteria but they are sensitive to antibiotic who treat G(+) it's a good thing since the nitrogen cycle bacteria are G(-) so they are less sensitive to erythromycin than the blue-green bacteria. So the nitrifying bacteria are a little bit safe, as long as we do not overdose. They have a new product on the market name UltraLife Blue-Green Algae remover, it simply human Erythromycin they crush, you can see the pink powered mix to the with one, the pink color is the coloration they give to the outsell of the pills.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30658	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: LFS recommendation request

Just found out I have a job related trip to DC in November - no I am not running for office - but anyway if I wanted to indulge the hobby while there and see some fish / plants/ supplies I might not see locally - where would I go? If reachable by Metro even better! It's not that I don't like drving in DC, it's just that I don't like Parking in DC - I usually end up (after circling the "block" which is one way and not square, 56 times) with a space that is farther away from my destination than my hotel was when I began the excursion. So I find driving in Washington an exercise in futility.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30659	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Jerry, That UltraLife stuff is a good addition to the aquarium line of remedies, as most hobbyists do not know to use Erythromycin for Cyanobacteria. Didn't know about it myself until now, but then I don't have reason to look for it. Do you know the manufacturer? With the Erythromycin, I've never read where this antibiotic was effective against any forms of true algae, while the Furan II is. Never tried the E'mycin with algae myself though. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30660	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: LFS recommendation request

There really is not anything in DC itself worth going to and the outlying stores that are, do not lend themselves to being available via Metro. Oh, maybe you might be able to get to SCALES Tropical Fish Warehouse via Metro bus, http://www.scales-tfw.com/. They may be able to help you with other local shops. I think there is one on Wisconsin, getting near the Maryland line that may be worth a look. You might also find some time during the day to visit the national aquarium in the basement of the Commerce Department building, just off the Mall at the corner of 14th and Constitution. There is a small fee to get in. Hey, I have no problem driving in DC. You just go there and sit in traffic. Seriously, you are going about looking for a parking space all wrong. You need to drive around the block the building is in, then widen the circle a bit, then dive into a handy garage if you do not find a space to park. Just be sure to read the four signs all giving differing directions an when parking is allowed before you leave your car on the street. Always keep in mind that a parking ticket is not necessarily given for a parking violation, but based on the mood of the parking enforcement officer. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] LFS recommendation request Just found out I have a job related trip to DC in November - no I am not running for office - but anyway if I wanted to indulge the hobby while there and see some fish / plants/ supplies I might not see locally - where would I go? If reachable by Metro even better! It's not that I don't like drving in DC, it's just that I don't like Parking in DC - I usually end up (after circling the "block" which is one way and not square, 56 times) with a space that is farther away from my destination than my hotel was when I began the excursion. So I find driving in Washington an exercise in futility. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30661	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: new plants new fish- ahhhhhh

I couldn't wait to get my hands on those new plants so I worked on my 30 G last night. OMG! It is so beautiful. Did you ever wish you could get in there and swim around with the fish? . Of course I am afraid to turn the light on this morning. Everything is probably floating! Today's project is to totally redo my 10 gallon. Wish housecleaning was as much fun! Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30662	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

For the permanganate, if it's for treat only plants in a separate container, you can use the one sell in water treatment center, they use it for remove the iron, I thing in water filter, I'm not sure on that but I thing they use it mix with the resin , when iron is present, it's about 20 $ for 2 pounds , I don't have the chemical analysis, but it should be about U.S.P. since it's use in water for human consummation. The chemical now, the best place to buy them is at a chemical distributor; here they just ask to have a business with a tax registration. Other places where they will sell chemical to some sort of retail are Scholl supply provider. Now since the 9 11 they control very much the chemical here in Canada, you buy certain chemical you have to fill a form for the usage you gone do with it . I'm not sure I can buy again Potassium Cyanide, so I don't spoil it since I need it in my water test, it's for neutralize the iron , who will give false reading. As a funny note, My dad is a pharmacist of 75 years old, I ask him if he know the grain measure, at first he say no and after explain, he say, Yes it's was use many years ago, and if he remember well the grain was the one of the wheat . As for the measure, here we still use the imperial system for the wood, so a 2x 4 still a 2x 4 , but the fuel, are measure in liter, and when I was young we was using the F' m now I have to use a chart to convert it for my post... I do not know my height and weight in metric system too. Even if in our license driver it's in metric, I still measure 5'9" and weight ( not important) ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... Jerry, Yes, I'm referring to the U.S.P. grade -- only as its one possible easy source of obtaining it by some of our members who still have friendly local town pharmacists to go to, to get their aquarium medications. The larger chain stores (CVS, Walgreen, Rite-Aid, etc.) though, would never consider dispensing anything that didn't have a prescription. Thanks for the info that this source might contain impurities. Another reliable source would be from a photographic store or supply house, as its used in certain photography development applications. This too may have impurities, but then, I'm only pointing out sources to obtain it with the members' convenience in mind. Undoubtedly, the metric system is more accurate. I often use it myself at times in double-checking myself in a measurement. Here in the States though, as opposed to many other areas in the world, most people still prefer not to use it and fall back on what has become most familiar to them (inches, ounces, quarts, etc.), even including degrees of general hardness. I, too, prefer including dGH, but with it I always include ppm whenever writing it to others.. Unless I know I'm posting to a hobbyist used to the Centigrade (Celcius) system, I'll almost always use Fahrenheit (occasionally using both) as to do otherwise in this country is like speaking Greek. There was a push recently here in the States to use the metric system, but it seems to have fallen to the way-side. Hard to get all these old dogs learning new tricks <g>. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30663	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

The Blue-Green Algae Remover is made by Ultralife Reef Products, P.O Box 431 Derby, CT 06418 , it's what it's written on my box. Now they don't mention the word Erythromycin anywhere on their box, I suppose they do so to be able to sell it in place like here, where the sale of antibiotic is ban by the government in Pet Shop, only veterinary can sell it here. As for antibiotic, I don't think they can kill algae, erythromycin, as far I know is only effective again Cyano ( blue- green algae) but they are not algae.. ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... Jerry, That UltraLife stuff is a good addition to the aquarium line of remedies, as most hobbyists do not know to use Erythromycin for Cyanobacteria. Didn't know about it myself until now, but then I don't have reason to look for it. Do you know the manufacturer? With the Erythromycin, I've never read where this antibiotic was effective against any forms of true algae, while the Furan II is. Never tried the E'mycin with algae myself though. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30664	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Jerry, Thanks for the name and address of the manufacturer of the Blue-Green Algae Remover (not a true algae, a Cyanobacteria). Where are you that they won't allow Erythromycin to be sold in a pet shop? As far as I know also, just as you indicate, E'mycin (or any antibiotic) is only effective against Blue-Green algae, but wouldn't do a thing against real algaes. Yet, this moderator I mentioned states that with treating fish with Furan II, the Hair Algae was killed off. Perhaps it is because this type of antibiotic is not derived from bacteria, but is made up of chemicals instead (Nitrofurazone, Furadolizone and Methylene Blue Trihydrate), Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30665	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30666	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

By "Water Treatment Center," I'm guessing you mean a private business dealing with water softeners and the like, not from a water treatment plant supplying the public's water source. Chemical suppliers makes sense too, as a place to buy Permanganate, but without proper credentials I doubt they'd sell it to just anyone ever since 9/11. Let's see . . . in metric, 2 pounds would be 0.906 Kilos (LOL). That would go a lo o o o n g way in treating fish tanks. For that use (home aquarium) you would probably be better off buying a chemistry set through Ebay, like Lenny might be looking into <g>. You'd then have the fringe benefit of being able to make a bomb, with potassium nitrate, sulfer and powdered charcoal (lol); I don't remember the proportions though. Surprising that National Security allows eBay to sell these sets, but they might not be too swift on that stuff. Oh, I see you're in Canada. Okay, that explains why you can't by antibiotics in a pet shop. That's interesting that your Dad till remembers the grain measuring system at that age, especially since Canada probably doesn't use that system much. There are a few measures I've memorized over time, with more frequent use, like 30 o C being 86 o F and a U.S. Gallon being 3.785 litres, but when it comes to temperatures in the mid-70 o F's, I only know its equivilent to somewhere in the 20 o C's. If I need to be more specific, I have to look it up on a chart. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30667	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Update on my Angel wigglers

After move the eggs on 3 different leaves, the couple bring them to the original one. I should have free swimming fry tonight or tomorrow morning. I will provide few brine shrimp to them, but they are in a 90 gal. well planted tank, so I don't expect a high surviving rate, but It's fine with me and will make more appreciate the survivor. I really don't like last time to have to kill 150 of them because no one wants them, of course if I have pay the plane and bus shipment I will have some interested L . It's sad because they are beautiful Koi angel.. P.S. I know I can transfer them in a utility tank, last time it's what I did , and lost only 7 eggs due to non fertilization ( white) and lost only 1 free swimming fry . angel are very easy fish to breed.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30668	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Update on my Angel wigglers

Very surprising you can't sell at least a portion of them to local fish stores; that's one of the nicest strains While you wouldn't get as much for them individually, maybe a local wholesaler would take the whole lot from you, if you have room to grow them. </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30669	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Yes that's it place who sale water softener equipment. Just to add to the confusion, a short time ago we was using the imperial gallon, 160 ounces compare to 128 for the US one. For my dad is still working few day a week ( better than stay home with my mom J )

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30670	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

After thing about it, it's not the 9 11 the problem, they restric chemical use to make drug.. Funny thing they still sell the ammonium nitrate ( oups the Home Land C . will wire this groups now ) is still sold in hydroponic center and garden one. It's look than Oklahoma was not enought.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30671	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: An interesting Link about chemistry of water and other

Lenny ( I know you like link ) I found you an interesting link, it's a scholl who provide education on waste water management, they have a lot of info free on their web site http://water.me.vccs.edu/help.htm and especially this one http://water.me.vccs.edu/math/operator_math.htm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30672	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

So both Ray and Jim don't knock themselves out trying to figure out conversions of metric to English and back again, let me point them, and everyone else here to a site that will do this for you: http://www.onlineconversion.com/ \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 1:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... By "Water Treatment Center," I'm guessing you mean a private business dealing with water softeners and the like, not from a water treatment plant supplying the public's water source. Chemical suppliers makes sense too, as a place to buy Permanganate, but without proper credentials I doubt they'd sell it to just anyone ever since 9/11. Let's see . . . in metric, 2 pounds would be 0.906 Kilos (LOL). That would go a lo o o o n g way in treating fish tanks. For that use (home aquarium) you would probably be better off buying a chemistry set through Ebay, like Lenny might be looking into <g>. You'd then have the fringe benefit of being able to make a bomb, with potassium nitrate, sulfer and powdered charcoal (lol); I don't remember the proportions though. Surprising that National Security allows eBay to sell these sets, but they might not be too swift on that stuff. Oh, I see you're in Canada. Okay, that explains why you can't by antibiotics in a pet shop. That's interesting that your Dad till remembers the grain measuring system at that age, especially since Canada probably doesn't use that system much. There are a few measures I've memorized over time, with more frequent use, like 30 o C being 86 o F and a U.S. Gallon being 3.785 litres, but when it comes to temperatures in the mid-70 o F's, I only know its equivilent to somewhere in the 20 o C's. If I need to be more specific, I have to look it up on a chart. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30673	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Who is Jim ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... So both Ray and Jim don't knock themselves out trying to figure out conversions of metric to English and back again, let me point them, and everyone else here to a site that will do this for you: http://www.onlineconversion.com/ \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 1:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... By "Water Treatment Center," I'm guessing you mean a private business dealing with water softeners and the like, not from a water treatment plant supplying the public's water source. Chemical suppliers makes sense too, as a place to buy Permanganate, but without proper credentials I doubt they'd sell it to just anyone ever since 9/11. Let's see . . . in metric, 2 pounds would be 0.906 Kilos (LOL). That would go a lo o o o n g way in treating fish tanks. For that use (home aquarium) you would probably be better off buying a chemistry set through Ebay, like Lenny might be looking into <g>. You'd then have the fringe benefit of being able to make a bomb, with potassium nitrate, sulfer and powdered charcoal (lol); I don't remember the proportions though. Surprising that National Security allows eBay to sell these sets, but they might not be too swift on that stuff. Oh, I see you're in Canada. Okay, that explains why you can't by antibiotics in a pet shop. That's interesting that your Dad till remembers the grain measuring system at that age, especially since Canada probably doesn't use that system much. There are a few measures I've memorized over time, with more frequent use, like 30 o C being 86 o F and a U.S. Gallon being 3.785 litres, but when it comes to temperatures in the mid-70 o F's, I only know its equivilent to somewhere in the 20 o C's. If I need to be more specific, I have to look it up on a chart. Ray </HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30674	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Sorry, Jerry. I just went with a name that was in my head. However, I am sure that out there, somewhere, there is a Jim looking for just this solution <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... Who is Jim ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... So both Ray and Jim don't knock themselves out trying to figure out conversions of metric to English and back again, let me point them, and everyone else here to a site that will do this for you: http://www.onlineconversion.com/ \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 1:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... By "Water Treatment Center," I'm guessing you mean a private business dealing with water softeners and the like, not from a water treatment plant supplying the public's water source. Chemical suppliers makes sense too, as a place to buy Permanganate, but without proper credentials I doubt they'd sell it to just anyone ever since 9/11. Let's see . . . in metric, 2 pounds would be 0.906 Kilos (LOL). That would go a lo o o o n g way in treating fish tanks. For that use (home aquarium) you would probably be better off buying a chemistry set through Ebay, like Lenny might be looking into <g>. You'd then have the fringe benefit of being able to make a bomb, with potassium nitrate, sulfer and powdered charcoal (lol); I don't remember the proportions though. Surprising that National Security allows eBay to sell these sets, but they might not be too swift on that stuff. Oh, I see you're in Canada. Okay, that explains why you can't by antibiotics in a pet shop. That's interesting that your Dad till remembers the grain measuring system at that age, especially since Canada probably doesn't use that system much. There are a few measures I've memorized over time, with more frequent use, like 30 o C being 86 o F and a U.S. Gallon being 3.785 litres, but when it comes to temperatures in the mid-70 o F's, I only know its equivilent to somewhere in the 20 o C's. If I need to be more specific, I have to look it up on a chart. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30675	From: Chris	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Thank You!

I'm noticing a huge improvement in my fish 24 hrs after the new heater and salt treatment. Even the gourami are starting to become active again. My tank is now half way cycled and I have really bad spike in Nitrites, but my nitrates are rising (10ppm). I put ammonia absorbing stuff made by white diamond in the filter bag to control ammonia and (hopefully) help brink the nitrites down. I'm gonna do another 50% water change as soon as my change water cools down to the tank's temp. Can I return to my normal feeding schedule, or should I wait a bit longer?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30676	From: canampc	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

I look in few of my book, but the pics are not very good, so I found more than 20 who look the same, anyway, here a good link for those kind of worms, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30677	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome...

Here a link for a calculator , for many parameter in the tank, you can even save the web page on your computer, and it will work offline http://animal-world.com/encyclo/information/calculate.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... Sorry, Jerry. I just went with a name that was in my head. However, I am sure that out there, somewhere, there is a Jim looking for just this solution <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... Who is Jim ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... So both Ray and Jim don't knock themselves out trying to figure out conversions of metric to English and back again, let me point them, and everyone else here to a site that will do this for you: http://www.onlineconversion.com/ \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 1:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Traintement with excel was : ( Re: Ich! What do you reccome... By "Water Treatment Center," I'm guessing you mean a private business dealing with water softeners and the like, not from a water treatment plant supplying the public's water source. Chemical suppliers makes sense too, as a place to buy Permanganate, but without proper credentials I doubt they'd sell it to just anyone ever since 9/11. Let's see . . . in metric, 2 pounds would be 0.906 Kilos (LOL). That would go a lo o o o n g way in treating fish tanks. For that use (home aquarium) you would probably be better off buying a chemistry set through Ebay, like Lenny might be looking into <g>. You'd then have the fringe benefit of being able to make a bomb, with potassium nitrate, sulfer and powdered charcoal (lol); I don't remember the proportions though. Surprising that National Security allows eBay to sell these sets, but they might not be too swift on that stuff. Oh, I see you're in Canada. Okay, that explains why you can't by antibiotics in a pet shop. That's interesting that your Dad till remembers the grain measuring system at that age, especially since Canada probably doesn't use that system much. There are a few measures I've memorized over time, with more frequent use, like 30 o C being 86 o F and a U.S. Gallon being 3.785 litres, but when it comes to temperatures in the mid-70 o F's, I only know its equivilent to somewhere in the 20 o C's. If I need to be more specific, I have to look it up on a chart. Ray </HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30678	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

I apologize for taking this in a different direction, but while we're attempting to identify things, can anyone tell me what kind of algae this might be?  My 75 gal tank (lots of plants, five small fishes and a few babies) has been set up for a few months and the original overgrowth of algae has decreased with the shorter hours of illumination it receives but this little...uh, plant, apparently arrived with the wisteria I ordered online.  It grows fairly rapidly in long, relatively unbranched filaments with lots of little glass bead things I suspect are reproductive bits.  It's green and not unpleasant to look at and I've found some babies hanging out in the heaviest spot, so I don't think I need to get rid of it (but tell me if I need to know something, please); I'm just curious to know what it is as I haven't seen anything like it in the various resources I've looked at lately. http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/8608/2122131980046967752S600x600Q85.jpg http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/43909/2532820250046967752S600x600Q85.jpg The flash makes the colors paler, but you get the idea. Thanks, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "canampc" <canam-pc@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:36:38 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I look in few of my book, but the pics are not very good, so I found more than 20 who look the same, anyway, here a good link for those kind of worms, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30679	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

It’s a Staghorn algae Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dreamsteeds" <Dreamsteeds@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too I apologize for taking this in a different direction, but while we're attempting to identify things, can anyone tell me what kind of algae this might be? My 75 gal tank (lots of plants, five small fishes and a few babies) has been set up for a few months and the original overgrowth of algae has decreased with the shorter hours of illumination it receives but this little...uh, plant, apparently arrived with the wisteria I ordered online. It grows fairly rapidly in long, relatively unbranched filaments with lots of little glass bead things I suspect are reproductive bits. It's green and not unpleasant to look at and I've found some babies hanging out in the heaviest spot, so I don't think I need to get rid of it (but tell me if I need to know something, please); I'm just curious to know what it is as I haven't seen anything like it in the various resources I've looked at lately. http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/8608/2122131980046967752S600x600Q85.jpg http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/43909/2532820250046967752S600x600Q85.jpg The flash makes the colors paler, but you get the idea. Thanks, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "canampc" <canam-pc@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:36:38 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I look in few of my book, but the pics are not very good, so I found more than 20 who look the same, anyway, here a good link for those kind of worms, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30680	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

Siamensis will eat them , excel will get ride of it too, but your beautiful valisneria on the pics too . I notice than you have also some hair algae. I will make some research later in my note to see other treatment, funny always in the evening I need my note and the fish room is close and in the dark, I will have to move those book and not J But may be Lenny ( where are you ? ) will google you some answer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dreamsteeds" <Dreamsteeds@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too I apologize for taking this in a different direction, but while we're attempting to identify things, can anyone tell me what kind of algae this might be? My 75 gal tank (lots of plants, five small fishes and a few babies) has been set up for a few months and the original overgrowth of algae has decreased with the shorter hours of illumination it receives but this little...uh, plant, apparently arrived with the wisteria I ordered online. It grows fairly rapidly in long, relatively unbranched filaments with lots of little glass bead things I suspect are reproductive bits. It's green and not unpleasant to look at and I've found some babies hanging out in the heaviest spot, so I don't think I need to get rid of it (but tell me if I need to know something, please); I'm just curious to know what it is as I haven't seen anything like it in the various resources I've looked at lately. http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/8608/2122131980046967752S600x600Q85.jpg http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/43909/2532820250046967752S600x600Q85.jpg The flash makes the colors paler, but you get the idea. Thanks, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "canampc" <canam-pc@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:36:38 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I look in few of my book, but the pics are not very good, so I found more than 20 who look the same, anyway, here a good link for those kind of worms, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30681	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

I don't have to Google for this one or most other links I provide I have a very well organized Favorites folder from saving websites that I've found over the years. I have several pages related to Algae saved in my favorites folder. I'm still not 100% sure it's staghorn algae in those pictures though since it looks more like an advanced plant, although the image of Staghorn Algae on this page http://www.guitarfish.org/2008/02/27/algae-browndiatoms-staghorn does resemble what is growing in the images but I'll leave the final comparison to Jackie. Here are my other "Favorites" for Algae info. http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too Siamensis will eat them , excel will get ride of it too, but your beautiful valisneria on the pics too . I notice than you have also some hair algae. I will make some research later in my note to see other treatment, funny always in the evening I need my note and the fish room is close and in the dark, I will have to move those book and not J But may be Lenny ( where are you ? ) will google you some answer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dreamsteeds" <Dreamsteeds@... <mailto:Dreamsteeds%40comcast.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too I apologize for taking this in a different direction, but while we're attempting to identify things, can anyone tell me what kind of algae this might be? My 75 gal tank (lots of plants, five small fishes and a few babies) has been set up for a few months and the original overgrowth of algae has decreased with the shorter hours of illumination it receives but this little...uh, plant, apparently arrived with the wisteria I ordered online. It grows fairly rapidly in long, relatively unbranched filaments with lots of little glass bead things I suspect are reproductive bits. It's green and not unpleasant to look at and I've found some babies hanging out in the heaviest spot, so I don't think I need to get rid of it (but tell me if I need to know something, please); I'm just curious to know what it is as I haven't seen anything like it in the various resources I've looked at lately. http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/8608/2122131980046967752S600x600Q85.jpg <http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/8608/2122131980046967752S600x600Q85.jpg> http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/43909/2532820250046967752S600x600Q85.jpg <http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/43909/2532820250046967752S600x600Q85.jpg> The flash makes the colors paler, but you get the idea. Thanks, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "canampc" <canam-pc@... <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:36:38 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I look in few of my book, but the pics are not very good, so I found more than 20 who look the same, anyway, here a good link for those kind of worms, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080927-0, 09/27/2008 Tested on: 9/28/2008 8:38:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080927-0, 09/27/2008 Tested on: 9/28/2008 8:46:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30682	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

……excel will get ride of it too , …….. I’m not consistent in my statement. J What ever the treatment, they will come back if the condition is favorable. As for the hair algae, only a full bleach will fix the problem for ever. -----

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30683	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

beleive me it's a staghorn, it's not in my favorite I see them, I have few case over the year, now than I have a camara on my microscope , next time I will get beautifull pics. but I google to find you a pics, and it's peak by himself http://www.aquaticscape.com/articles/algae/staghorn1.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too I don't have to Google for this one or most other links I provide I have a very well organized Favorites folder from saving websites that I've found over the years. I have several pages related to Algae saved in my favorites folder. I'm still not 100% sure it's staghorn algae in those pictures though since it looks more like an advanced plant, although the image of Staghorn Algae on this page http://www.guitarfish.org/2008/02/27/algae-browndiatoms-staghorn does resemble what is growing in the images but I'll leave the final comparison to Jackie. Here are my other "Favorites" for Algae info. http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too Siamensis will eat them , excel will get ride of it too, but your beautiful valisneria on the pics too . I notice than you have also some hair algae. I will make some research later in my note to see other treatment, funny always in the evening I need my note and the fish room is close and in the dark, I will have to move those book and not J But may be Lenny ( where are you ? ) will google you some answer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dreamsteeds" <Dreamsteeds@... <mailto:Dreamsteeds%40comcast.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too I apologize for taking this in a different direction, but while we're attempting to identify things, can anyone tell me what kind of algae this might be? My 75 gal tank (lots of plants, five small fishes and a few babies) has been set up for a few months and the original overgrowth of algae has decreased with the shorter hours of illumination it receives but this little...uh, plant, apparently arrived with the wisteria I ordered online. It grows fairly rapidly in long, relatively unbranched filaments with lots of little glass bead things I suspect are reproductive bits. It's green and not unpleasant to look at and I've found some babies hanging out in the heaviest spot, so I don't think I need to get rid of it (but tell me if I need to know something, please); I'm just curious to know what it is as I haven't seen anything like it in the various resources I've looked at lately. http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/8608/2122131980046967752S600x600Q85.jpg <http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/8608/2122131980046967752S600x600Q85.jpg> http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/43909/2532820250046967752S600x600Q85.jpg <http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/43909/2532820250046967752S600x600Q85.jpg> The flash makes the colors paler, but you get the idea. Thanks, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "canampc" <canam-pc@... <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:36:38 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I look in few of my book, but the pics are not very good, so I found more than 20 who look the same, anyway, here a good link for those kind of worms, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080927-0, 09/27/2008 Tested on: 9/28/2008 8:38:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080927-0, 09/27/2008 Tested on: 9/28/2008 8:46:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30684	From: jett07002	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off!

Hi Dora: I am almost afraid to ask this, but why do you keep table salt - I am presuming that is what you mean by "human salt" - on the bathroom sink? Just curious. joe t > > > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help! Water chemistry is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off! > > From what I'm reading you can safely use just plain salt, and you may be > able to safely use iodized plain salt - but I still prefer to use aquarium > salt. I add two teaspoons per 2 and a half gallons of water, and at that > level a big carton of aquarium salt will last you quite awhile. The human > salt lives on the bathroom sink as well, and it doesn't stay uncaked long > enough to get used up! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30685	From: texas_tears2000	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: whats water chemistry ?

chemistry - please explain

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30686	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

depends on where you look , it can be look also like a thread algae , you really need to see them with a high manification to see how the cell is divide at the branch. But when I see the second pic I know it was the one I have many time before, and at that time I identify them as staghair, all true in French we do not use that name , and may be the translation is not good. Question, are they easy to remove or hard to pull. ?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30687	From: CanAm	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: whats water chemistry ?

water is the combinaison of 2 elements, Hydrogen and Oxygen, so if you separate them you can blast a rocket to the moon,, :) sorry for the joke, but it was mention to send a man to the moon, and Lenny trying to buy a chemistry set on ebay, anyway what do you means ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "texas_tears2000" <texas_tears2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:23 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] whats water chemistry ? chemistry - please explain ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30688	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: new filter

is it possible to over filter? or run too large of a filter? i was originally running a tetra whisper 20 power filter that came with my 20 gallon, when i added my new fish after cycling the tank i had an amonia spike, still less than 1ppm, but i was worried that maybe my filter was too small for the load and i once heard to use a filter rated for twice the capacity of your tank, is this true? either way i decided to go with a marineland penguin since the bio wheel is supposed to be the best and i am now running two filters until the bio wheel picks up the bacteria then i'll probbaly put my other filter into a smaller tank, i just want to know if it's ok to run a 50 gallon rated filter in a 20 gallon tank

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30689	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

Thank you all for the advice and links to pictures.  I had already seen most and agree that it's certainly closest to the staghorn specimen although less branched probably because it hasn't been established all that long.  While the growth I have now is kind of cute and seems pretty fancy for an algae , the last picture doesn't appeal to me at all so I guess I'll pull out what I can, now, and let the kids hide in the wisteria.  Thanks again for the responses! Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 6:50:59 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?  algae queston, too beleive me it's a staghorn, it's not in my favorite I see them, I have few case over the year, now than I have a camara on my microscope , next time I will get beautifull pics. but I google to find you a pics, and it's peak by himself http://www.aquaticscape.com/articles/algae/staghorn1.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" < GoldLenny@... > To: < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too I don't have to Google for this one or most other links I provide I have a very well organized Favorites folder from saving websites that I've found over the years. I have several pages related to Algae saved in my favorites folder. I'm still not 100% sure it's staghorn algae in those pictures though since it looks more like an advanced plant, although the image of Staghorn Algae on this page http://www.guitarfish.org/2008/02/27/algae-browndiatoms-staghorn does resemble what is growing in the images but I'll leave the final comparison to Jackie. Here are my other "Favorites" for Algae info. http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too Siamensis will eat them , excel will get ride of it too, but your beautiful valisneria on the pics too . I notice than you have also some hair algae. I will make some research later in my note to see other treatment, funny always in the evening I need my note and the fish room is close and in the dark, I will have to move those book and not J But may be Lenny ( where are you ? ) will google you some answer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dreamsteeds" < Dreamsteeds@... <mailto:Dreamsteeds%40comcast.net> > To: < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too I apologize for taking this in a different direction, but while we're attempting to identify things, can anyone tell me what kind of algae this might be? My 75 gal tank (lots of plants, five small fishes and a few babies) has been set up for a few months and the original overgrowth of algae has decreased with the shorter hours of illumination it receives but this little...uh, plant, apparently arrived with the wisteria I ordered online. It grows fairly rapidly in long, relatively unbranched filaments with lots of little glass bead things I suspect are reproductive bits. It's green and not unpleasant to look at and I've found some babies hanging out in the heaviest spot, so I don't think I need to get rid of it (but tell me if I need to know something, please); I'm just curious to know what it is as I haven't seen anything like it in the various resources I've looked at lately. http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/8608/2122131980046967752S600x600Q85.jpg < http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/8608/2122131980046967752S600x600Q85.jpg > http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/43909/2532820250046967752S600x600Q85.jpg < http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/43909/2532820250046967752S600x600Q85.jpg > The flash makes the colors paler, but you get the idea. Thanks, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "canampc" < canam-pc@... <mailto:canam-pc%40sympatico.ca> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:36:38 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I look in few of my book, but the pics are not very good, so I found more than 20 who look the same, anyway, here a good link for those kind of worms, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm < http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080927-0, 09/27/2008 Tested on: 9/28/2008 8:38:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080927-0, 09/27/2008 Tested on: 9/28/2008 8:46:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30690	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: whats water chemistry ?

Water chemistry is a very complex subject, however, we are only concerned with a few measurements. pH is the measure of the acidity/baseness of the water itself. Water that is more acid, below 7.0 on the pH scale, is more corrosive as is acid, and water that is on the base side (above 7.0) will have a tendency to leave minerals behind as it evaporates, and will slowly deposit minerals on objects it comes into contact with. We will probably not see the latter in our aquariums, because this precipitation takes a long time--think stalactites and stalagmites in caves. Another aspect we pay attention to is nitrogenous compounds. This is the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate that we speak of often here. Ammonia is produced by the fish and critters kept in an aquarium. Bacteria change ammonia to nitrites and then to nitrates. Live plants can also make use of these three compounds. KH and dGH, or DH, are measurements of different compound that contribute to the hardness of the water. Hardness affects different things, but we are mostly concerned with the pH. Generally, but not always, a water that is considered hard will mean the pH is above 7.0 by some amount. Water that is considered to be soft will have a lower pH. The KH measurement is the important one here. There are other things that are of some concern, but we only measure them when certain symptoms are present. Oxygen is one. Fish require a certain amount of oxygen in the water. The warmer the water, the less the carrying capacity it has for oxygen. Phosphorus and/or iron sometimes come into play, and there are also measurements for that. Then, if you are on a public water distribution system, you need to worry a bit about how they treat the water. Definitely they will add chlorine or chloramines to the water, which we need to remove. Sometimes they will increase the hardness of the water--remember the corrosiveness of acidic water. That's just a quick outline. There is more, much more, about each one of the things I have mentioned, if you really want to get into it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of texas_tears2000 Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] whats water chemistry ? chemistry - please explain

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30691	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/28/2008
Subject: Re: new filter

You do take the chance of having too much water flow for the fish you are keeping. You are looking for a filter that will turn over the capacity of the tank in gallons 3-6 times an hour. Yu can experience a mini-cycle as it is known any time you add a number of fish to a tank. You did not make any mention as to how the tank was cycled to begin, and this could make a difference. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new filter is it possible to over filter? or run too large of a filter? i was originally running a tetra whisper 20 power filter that came with my 20 gallon, when i added my new fish after cycling the tank i had an amonia spike, still less than 1ppm, but i was worried that maybe my filter was too small for the load and i once heard to use a filter rated for twice the capacity of your tank, is this true? either way i decided to go with a marineland penguin since the bio wheel is supposed to be the best and i am now running two filters until the bio wheel picks up the bacteria then i'll probbaly put my other filter into a smaller tank, i just want to know if it's ok to run a 50 gallon rated filter in a 20 gallon tank ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30692	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: An interesting Link about chemistry of water and other

Wow - thanks! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 2:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] An interesting Link about chemistry of water and other Lenny ( I know you like link ) I found you an interesting link, it's a scholl who provide education on waste water management, they have a lot of info free on their web site http://water.me.vccs.edu/help.htm and especially this one http://water.me.vccs.edu/math/operator_math.htm ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30693	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

That's funny! I have one in my tank too and I had no idea which batch of plants it came from. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30694	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Nitrite Spike!

So I tested my water yesterday and everything was still looking great except my Nitrite (no2-) is at 1.6. So far all three fish are still alive and I've been feeding every other day. What could have caused this? I put in some cycle last night because its supposed to help lower them. My ammonia level is 0 and my ph is 8. I havent gotten my nitrate tester in the mail yet. I still have some salt in there, so that should help them for now right?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30695	From: Alina	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Apple snails

Hi, Question on snails. We've had "Gary" the apple snail for over a week. He's not too active, mostly hiding the past few days and I am worried he may not have enough to eat. Not sure why I think this -- some sites say if they are inactive, it just means they are well fed -- but I just don't know enough about these creatures to be sure. I bought two live plants for the tank this weekend, but is there anything I can do to make sure he's eating? My tank is 38 or so gals, and it's relatively new...about 7 weeks. Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30696	From: josh4fish	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach

Hey, Would a bristlenose live ok with a Hillstream Loach or would the Bristlenose be a bit aggresive? Its a 70 L tank. Thanks guys.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30697	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

Hi, the bacteria who are responsible to transform the nitrite in nitrate are a lot more sensitive than the one who transform the ammonia in nitrite, it's not rare to see the nitrite rise even with no sign of ammonia, but before go further , is this tank fully cycled before, and what you did recently in the tank. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "cheeseymicron03" <cheese911@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:02 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Spike! So I tested my water yesterday and everything was still looking great except my Nitrite (no2-) is at 1.6. So far all three fish are still alive and I've been feeding every other day. What could have caused this? I put in some cycle last night because its supposed to help lower them. My ammonia level is 0 and my ph is 8. I havent gotten my nitrate tester in the mail yet. I still have some salt in there, so that should help them for now right? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30698	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach

I'm not worry about the aggressively at all, the only problem I see is may be the pleco will not left enough food to the loach.. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "josh4fish" <josh.dragonrising@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach Hey, Would a bristlenose live ok with a Hillstream Loach or would the Bristlenose be a bit aggresive? Its a 70 L tank. Thanks guys. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30699	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Apple snails

Sometime they are not active for a wild, if you don'T see him move at all, remove him from the tank every day to see if it's smell, don't worry for the food, if he don't find food he will eat the plants :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alina" <alambiet@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:51 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple snails Hi, Question on snails. We've had "Gary" the apple snail for over a week. He's not too active, mostly hiding the past few days and I am worried he may not have enough to eat. Not sure why I think this -- some sites say if they are inactive, it just means they are well fed -- but I just don't know enough about these creatures to be sure. I bought two live plants for the tank this weekend, but is there anything I can do to make sure he's eating? My tank is 38 or so gals, and it's relatively new...about 7 weeks. Alina ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Apple snails

What have you been trying to feed him? Here's a list of good calcium rich foods that many apple/mystery snail keepers feed theirs. These calcium rich foods are even more important if you do not have hard water with a good KH level. What are your water parameters for pH, KH, GH? You might as well test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate while you're at it! ;-) http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 If you have fish that are "curious" who keep checking him out, he'll be more likely to stay inside his shell. I also found that my mystery snails, when I had them, were more nocturnal and were most active after lights out so keep an eye on him after you turn the lights out for the day. There are also times when they'll close up for a week or more at a time, sometimes floating, but it's just something they do as part of their "normal" actions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple snails Hi, Question on snails. We've had "Gary" the apple snail for over a week. He's not too active, mostly hiding the past few days and I am worried he may not have enough to eat. Not sure why I think this -- some sites say if they are inactive, it just means they are well fed -- but I just don't know enough about these creatures to be sure. I bought two live plants for the tank this weekend, but is there anything I can do to make sure he's eating? My tank is 38 or so gals, and it's relatively new...about 7 weeks. Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 11:44:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach

BN Pleco's are more of a tropical fish where the Hillstream Loach is a cool/cold water fish. Depending on the temp of your tank, one of the fish would not be as suitable. Your tank is also on the small side for a BN pleco which should be kept in at least a 30G tank. They grow to 6" long. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Ancistrus_dolichopterus.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josh4fish Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach Hey, Would a bristlenose live ok with a Hillstream Loach or would the Bristlenose be a bit aggresive? Its a 70 L tank. Thanks guys. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 11:52:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30702	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

I donot know if the tank is fully cycled. I had it going for 2 weeks using cycle and then added my id shark and two goldfish and two mollies and a pleco ( i know they dont mix). The pleco died after 2 days and then I moved the mollies because they were very aggressive. The goldfish and shakr had ick but is going away with treatment of quick cure. my ph levels are staying at 8 and GH is at 11. I have not added /removed anything recently Sarah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30703	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

Someone else has suggested it might be a type of bladderwort, a type of carnivorous plant, which is also not a wonderful thing and should be removed before it takes over the entire fishroom.  It seems rather tiny for that though, not that I am an expert on bladderworts.  Whatever it's name, I guess it's coming out. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzy Snowflake" <grammypat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:02:00 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?  algae queston, too That's funny! I have one in my tank too and I had no idea which batch of plants it came from. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30704	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Fin problems and redness

Along with my NO2- problem, I've noticed that my goldfishes fins are getting a lot shorter and kinda stringy, almost like they are getting eatten. They are also developing a redness to them, almost like they are bleeding. My id shark has the same redness to the fins. what could be causing this? Is it most likely the bad water problems? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: cheese911@...: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:02:57 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Spike! So I tested my water yesterday and everything was still looking great except my Nitrite (no2-) is at 1.6. So far all three fish are still alive and I've been feeding every other day. What could have caused this? I put in some cycle last night because its supposed to help lower them. My ammonia level is 0 and my ph is 8. I havent gotten my nitrate tester in the mail yet. I still have some salt in there, so that should help them for now right? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30705	From: Nedra	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Red algae, anyone????

Hi everyone, Appreciate any suggestions re: this annoying turn of events in my "show" tank. How do I get rid of it? It's a mature tank (4 or 5 years old) - 29Gal with two penguin filters rated for 50G. Ammonia, nitrites are 0ppm. pH was 7.6, but I haven't tested it recently. I didn't test for nitrates, but figure they are high enough to support plant life. Fish are healthy - a breeding pair of angels that spawn every two weeks like clock work, and guppies. Angels have actually raised fry on their own in this tank; another reason I think the water quality is probably pretty good. I don't know the hardness. I do not use aquarium salt or any chemicals except Prime conditioner with water changes. I replace somewhere between 10-40% of the water every week depending on how ambitious I feel on the water change day. The tank is lit around 16 hours a day and that has not changed over the years. I've had green algae but I'm not over run with it and manage to control it with frequent water changes -- but this stuff; even the snails don't seem to eat it and the otocinclus (sp.)wouldn't touch it either. It seems to have knocked the green algae out of the tank -- enough so that the little oto began sucking on the big male angel -- I think he was very hungry and I've since moved him over to another tank where he can get more food. I may have introduced this stuff feeding live blackworms? The tank was planted with crypts and java moss on driftwood. The brownish red film has moved onto the Malaysian driftwood and looks like it may be growing on the java moss (not good). A few strands of the moss are covered with the stuff. Yesterday I added as many live plants as I could to the tank, thinking I might starve it into submission. Does anyone know where I got this stuff, and how to kill it without damaging the plants (the java moss on the Malaysian d.w.) Sorry for being so "wordy" -- I've tried to describe the water conditions to my best ability.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30706	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

Your goldfish are likely suffering from fin rot which is usually from a bacterial infection... possibly related to the Ick infestation. You really have a lot of problems going on at once so I hope your fish make it. How much salt did you add to the tank? Have you done any PWC's since? Did you replace the amount of removed salt with each PWC? DO NOT go out and buy another medication at this point as too many meds are just as bad as no meds at all sometimes. Which meds do you currently have? Each time you post, please include ALL of your water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH and temp) from your most recent tests as well as from the previous test so we can tell a little more about what is happening in your tank. As I've explained before, your tank is severely overstocked with incompatible fish. Your Iridescent Shark (not really a shark but called that for marketing purposes) will one day eat your goldfish. They grow to over 3' long in nature and really are not suitable for "normal" home aquaria... unless you have a GIGANTIC tank. Keeping them in undersized tanks only causes them to be severely stunted which leads to many health issues and an early death. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html The stress from having these BIG fish (yes, Goldfish also get BIG.. but not as big as the ID Shark) in an undersized tank will cause you to constantly have water quality issues, stunting, health issues and ultimately an early death for the fish. I hope you can return the ID shark and eventually get a bigger tank for the goldfish. Then you could use your current tank for your remaining tropical fish. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:42 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Spike! I donot know if the tank is fully cycled. I had it going for 2 weeks using cycle and then added my id shark and two goldfish and two mollies and a pleco ( i know they dont mix). The pleco died after 2 days and then I moved the mollies because they were very aggressive. The goldfish and shakr had ick but is going away with treatment of quick cure. my ph levels are staying at 8 and GH is at 11. I have not added /removed anything recently Sarah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 12:09:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30707	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

You know, before Jerry insisted it was Staghorn algae, I said it looked more advanced than staghorn algae and I was going to say it looked like one of the "wort" plants that I once saw when trying to ID one of my mystery plants a while back. It sure looks more advanced than algae, even the staghorn algae which can look much more advanced compared to most other algae. I just did a search for "wort" on Plantgeek.net. The "Lesser Bladderword" http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/uminor3.jpg (<closeup image) and full profile at http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=284 looks like yours but you would have to compare them since your picture wasn't real clear for the details. The profile on this plant says... "Even the smallest of fry should be too big for this plant to get. In its natural habitat it will feed on scuds, nematodes, water fleas,copepods, and other microscopic larvae."... so it might not be such a bad plant if this is definitely what you have. If you login to Plantgeek.net, you can replicate the search I did to look over the other profiles they have for "wort" plants. Start at this search page http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php?type=Advanced and just type wort in the top field "Common name includes" and then click the Search button. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too Someone else has suggested it might be a type of bladderwort, a type of carnivorous plant, which is also not a wonderful thing and should be removed before it takes over the entire fishroom. It seems rather tiny for that though, not that I am an expert on bladderworts. Whatever it's name, I guess it's coming out. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzy Snowflake" <grammypat@... <mailto:grammypat%40txcyber.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:02:00 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too That's funny! I have one in my tank too and I had no idea which batch of plants it came from. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 11:56:56 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 12:22:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30708	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Fin problems and redness

The redness could be ammonia poisoning but it could also be what used to be called hemorrhagic septicemia but I think that was a misdiagnosis at the hobby level since there has been a lot more information about HS and it's now linked to a virus (VHSv). Here's a general page about common goldfish related illnesses that you will need to become familiar with. You will see the fin rot issue and Septicemia issue mentioned. http://thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishIllness.html Here's a page with more details about water quality for goldfish. http://thegab.org/Articles/WaterQuality.html Please see my previous reply about your overstocked issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:10 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fin problems and redness Along with my NO2- problem, I've noticed that my goldfishes fins are getting a lot shorter and kinda stringy, almost like they are getting eatten. They are also developing a redness to them, almost like they are bleeding. My id shark has the same redness to the fins. what could be causing this? Is it most likely the bad water problems? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : cheese911@... <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.comDate> : Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:02:57 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Spike! So I tested my water yesterday and everything was still looking great except my Nitrite (no2-) is at 1.6. So far all three fish are still alive and I've been feeding every other day. What could have caused this? I put in some cycle last night because its supposed to help lower them. My ammonia level is 0 and my ph is 8. I havent gotten my nitrate tester in the mail yet. I still have some salt in there, so that should help them for now right? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 11:56:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 12:32:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30709	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

To leave or not Leave , I can't believe it Algae = no leave Plants = leave Hi Lenny, the pics you show us have leave a the intersection of the branch ( noud in french , don't know in english) , now the pics they show us from the suppose algae have something who look like the intersection of branch of Staghorn, or other long filamentous algae. It's look also like the leave of the plant Lenny show us, as Lenny said not enoght detail in the pics . But if the original poster told us it's leaves, why the title was algae. Algae do not have leave. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 1:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too You know, before Jerry insisted it was Staghorn algae, I said it looked more advanced than staghorn algae and I was going to say it looked like one of the "wort" plants that I once saw when trying to ID one of my mystery plants a while back. It sure looks more advanced than algae, even the staghorn algae which can look much more advanced compared to most other algae. I just did a search for "wort" on Plantgeek.net. The "Lesser Bladderword" http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/uminor3.jpg (<closeup image) and full profile at http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=284 looks like yours but you would have to compare them since your picture wasn't real clear for the details. The profile on this plant says... "Even the smallest of fry should be too big for this plant to get. In its natural habitat it will feed on scuds, nematodes, water fleas,copepods, and other microscopic larvae."... so it might not be such a bad plant if this is definitely what you have. If you login to Plantgeek.net, you can replicate the search I did to look over the other profiles they have for "wort" plants. Start at this search page http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php?type=Advanced and just type wort in the top field "Common name includes" and then click the Search button. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too Someone else has suggested it might be a type of bladderwort, a type of carnivorous plant, which is also not a wonderful thing and should be removed before it takes over the entire fishroom. It seems rather tiny for that though, not that I am an expert on bladderworts. Whatever it's name, I guess it's coming out. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzy Snowflake" <grammypat@... <mailto:grammypat%40txcyber.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:02:00 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too That's funny! I have one in my tank too and I had no idea which batch of plants it came from. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 11:56:56 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 12:22:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30710	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

Is this XYZ unidentified have Leave or not , send me a better pics, or the thing, so I can look more closer…. See my other post. An algae is not a plants, it have no leave. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dreamsteeds" <Dreamsteeds@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too Someone else has suggested it might be a type of bladderwort, a type of carnivorous plant, which is also not a wonderful thing and should be removed before it takes over the entire fishroom. It seems rather tiny for that though, not that I am an expert on bladderworts. Whatever it's name, I guess it's coming out. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzy Snowflake" <grammypat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:02:00 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too That's funny! I have one in my tank too and I had no idea which batch of plants it came from. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30711	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????

Is this what you have, since you call it "Red algae"? http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/brush-algae.jpg from... http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html Or could it just be dying "green" algae turning brown? Never mind on this. As I re-read your post, you have a brownish red film? Well, I guess that could still be dying algae decaying. Red slime algae could also be cyanobacteria, also called BGA, blue-green algae but there is a reddish colored variant also. The first thing that jumps out at me is your 16 hours of lighting. That is excessive IMO. 8 to 12 hours is the most that I would ever give a simple planted depending on the other trilogy factors... nutrient level and CO2 level. Since you have a lot of circulation, your CO2 levels are probably low. We don't know your nitrate levels but unless all three are balanced properly, you will almost always get algae. Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? If you can test your nitrates and CO2 levels (see 1/2 way down on this page... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm) it would help but I think the first thing you need to do is shorten your light cycle. I try to mimic nature and I only have full lighting on for 6-8 hours a day depending on my simple planted tanks... no CO2 injection and no special nutrients added. For aquatic plants in nature, they do not get much of the morning or afternoon/evening sunlight so they really only get full lighting from around 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.... depending on the orientation to the equator and seasonal adjustments in nature. I have room lighting on during the early morning hours and late evening hours... or if you have more advanced lighting, you could dial back the lighting on your tanks during those hours. Take a look at the pics on these pages to see if any of these algae are what you are seeing. http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? Hi everyone, Appreciate any suggestions re: this annoying turn of events in my "show" tank. How do I get rid of it? It's a mature tank (4 or 5 years old) - 29Gal with two penguin filters rated for 50G. Ammonia, nitrites are 0ppm. pH was 7.6, but I haven't tested it recently. I didn't test for nitrates, but figure they are high enough to support plant life. Fish are healthy - a breeding pair of angels that spawn every two weeks like clock work, and guppies. Angels have actually raised fry on their own in this tank; another reason I think the water quality is probably pretty good. I don't know the hardness. I do not use aquarium salt or any chemicals except Prime conditioner with water changes. I replace somewhere between 10-40% of the water every week depending on how ambitious I feel on the water change day. The tank is lit around 16 hours a day and that has not changed over the years. I've had green algae but I'm not over run with it and manage to control it with frequent water changes -- but this stuff; even the snails don't seem to eat it and the otocinclus (sp.)wouldn't touch it either. It seems to have knocked the green algae out of the tank -- enough so that the little oto began sucking on the big male angel -- I think he was very hungry and I've since moved him over to another tank where he can get more food. I may have introduced this stuff feeding live blackworms? The tank was planted with crypts and java moss on driftwood. The brownish red film has moved onto the Malaysian driftwood and looks like it may be growing on the java moss (not good). A few strands of the moss are covered with the stuff. Yesterday I added as many live plants as I could to the tank, thinking I might starve it into submission. Does anyone know where I got this stuff, and how to kill it without damaging the plants (the java moss on the Malaysian d.w.) Sorry for being so "wordy" -- I've tried to describe the water conditions to my best ability. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 2:28:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30712	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????

Red Algae ( Rhodophyte ) contain 5000 species , mainly all marine, but you have around 150 species in freshwater, the fact they are red or brown do not means they are dying, that's their color, they can be purple too. That's an other thought one

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30713	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

Ding! Ding! Ding!  We have a winnah...  I would say that these pictures are definitely what I have growing in my tank.  It came to me all the way from MA.  Thanks for doing all that research, Lenny; it's reassuring to know just what I'm dealing with.  I would have been horrified to learn that I was nurturing something that was slurping up my baby platies behind my back.  lol   I guess whatever they are consuming that is providing them with such abundant growth, is something I'm better off, without.  Hopefully, soon I'll be adding some (as yet undetermined neato) fishes to the mix. Thanks again to the whole group for info and interest. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:22:25 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?  algae queston, too You know, before Jerry insisted it was Staghorn algae, I said it looked more advanced than staghorn algae and I was going to say it looked like one of the "wort" plants that I once saw when trying to ID one of my mystery plants a while back. It sure looks more advanced than algae, even the staghorn algae which can look much more advanced compared to most other algae. I just did a search for "wort" on Plantgeek.net. The "Lesser Bladderword" http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/uminor3.jpg (<closeup image) and full profile at http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=284 looks like yours but you would have to compare them since your picture wasn't real clear for the details. The profile on this plant says... "Even the smallest of fry should be too big for this plant to get. In its natural habitat it will feed on scuds, nematodes, water fleas,copepods, and other microscopic larvae."... so it might not be such a bad plant if this is definitely what you have. If you login to Plantgeek.net, you can replicate the search I did to look over the other profiles they have for "wort" plants. Start at this search page http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php?type=Advanced and just type wort in the top field "Common name includes" and then click the Search button. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too Someone else has suggested it might be a type of bladderwort, a type of carnivorous plant, which is also not a wonderful thing and should be removed before it takes over the entire fishroom. It seems rather tiny for that though, not that I am an expert on bladderworts. Whatever it's name, I guess it's coming out. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzy Snowflake" < grammypat@... <mailto:grammypat%40txcyber.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:02:00 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too That's funny! I have one in my tank too and I had no idea which batch of plants it came from. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 11:56:56 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 12:22:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30714	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????

I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30715	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

Sorry to have caused any confusion; I can only blame my own ignorance for failing to provide the correct terminology.  Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:25:39 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?  algae queston, too To leave or not Leave , I can't believe it Algae = no leave Plants = leave Hi Lenny, the pics you show us have leave a the intersection of the branch ( noud in french , don't know in english) , now the pics they show us from the suppose algae have something who look like the intersection of branch of Staghorn, or other long filamentous algae. It's look also like the leave of the plant Lenny show us, as Lenny said not enoght detail in the pics . But if the original poster told us it's leaves, why the title was algae. Algae do not have leave. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" < GoldLenny@... > To: < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 1:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too You know, before Jerry insisted it was Staghorn algae, I said it looked more advanced than staghorn algae and I was going to say it looked like one of the "wort" plants that I once saw when trying to ID one of my mystery plants a while back. It sure looks more advanced than algae, even the staghorn algae which can look much more advanced compared to most other algae. I just did a search for "wort" on Plantgeek.net. The "Lesser Bladderword" http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/uminor3.jpg (<closeup image) and full profile at http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=284 looks like yours but you would have to compare them since your picture wasn't real clear for the details. The profile on this plant says... "Even the smallest of fry should be too big for this plant to get. In its natural habitat it will feed on scuds, nematodes, water fleas,copepods, and other microscopic larvae."... so it might not be such a bad plant if this is definitely what you have. If you login to Plantgeek.net, you can replicate the search I did to look over the other profiles they have for "wort" plants. Start at this search page http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php?type=Advanced and just type wort in the top field "Common name includes" and then click the Search button. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too Someone else has suggested it might be a type of bladderwort, a type of carnivorous plant, which is also not a wonderful thing and should be removed before it takes over the entire fishroom. It seems rather tiny for that though, not that I am an expert on bladderworts. Whatever it's name, I guess it's coming out. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzy Snowflake" < grammypat@... <mailto:grammypat%40txcyber.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:02:00 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too That's funny! I have one in my tank too and I had no idea which batch of plants it came from. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 11:56:56 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 12:22:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30716	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae qu

Glad that it was the Lesser Bladderwort and not staghorn algae. If it starts to get too much, I'm sure you could sell some off to other fishkeepers that have a problem with nematodes, copepods, etc. If you read the full profile, you'll see that it will grow up to the surface of your tank and then flower... well maybe not on your tank since I think you have a lot of circulation and typical flowering aquatic plants do not flower in fast moving water. You'll also see that one place it likes to be is as a floating plant, not attached to anything on the bottom so you could consider that option as well. Then it would get plenty of light and CO2 from the air and it would then grow a lot more and suck up excess nutrients from your tank. Of course, this might not be a good thing for your other plants so maybe you'd be better off with it attached to the bottom and only taking up part of the surface. The good thing about floating plants is they can be more easily transferred to another tank that might need them. I keep a lot anacharis and guppy grass growing in my goldfish tank and cherry shrimp tank. Lots of duckweed in the cherry shrimp tank too but I feed the duckweed to my goldfish on a regular basis so it doesn't overtake the surface of the cherry shrimp tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winnah... I would say that these pictures are definitely what I have growing in my tank. It came to me all the way from MA. Thanks for doing all that research, Lenny; it's reassuring to know just what I'm dealing with. I would have been horrified to learn that I was nurturing something that was slurping up my baby platies behind my back. lol I guess whatever they are consuming that is providing them with such abundant growth, is something I'm better off, without. Hopefully, soon I'll be adding some (as yet undetermined neato) fishes to the mix. Thanks again to the whole group for info and interest. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:22:25 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too You know, before Jerry insisted it was Staghorn algae, I said it looked more advanced than staghorn algae and I was going to say it looked like one of the "wort" plants that I once saw when trying to ID one of my mystery plants a while back. It sure looks more advanced than algae, even the staghorn algae which can look much more advanced compared to most other algae. I just did a search for "wort" on Plantgeek.net. The "Lesser Bladderword" http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/uminor3.jpg <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/uminor3.jpg> (<closeup image) and full profile at http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=284 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=284> looks like yours but you would have to compare them since your picture wasn't real clear for the details. The profile on this plant says... "Even the smallest of fry should be too big for this plant to get. In its natural habitat it will feed on scuds, nematodes, water fleas,copepods, and other microscopic larvae."... so it might not be such a bad plant if this is definitely what you have. If you login to Plantgeek.net, you can replicate the search I did to look over the other profiles they have for "wort" plants. Start at this search page http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php?type=Advanced <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php?type=Advanced> and just type wort in the top field "Common name includes" and then click the Search button. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too Someone else has suggested it might be a type of bladderwort, a type of carnivorous plant, which is also not a wonderful thing and should be removed before it takes over the entire fishroom. It seems rather tiny for that though, not that I am an expert on bladderworts. Whatever it's name, I guess it's coming out. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzy Snowflake" < grammypat@... <mailto:grammypat%40txcyber.com> <mailto:grammypat%40txcyber.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:02:00 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? algae queston, too That's funny! I have one in my tank too and I had no idea which batch of plants it came from. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 3:24:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30717	From: Chris	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

I cannot understand what is going on in my tank. My ammonia is low (bellow 1 ppm, but my nitrates are extreemly high. My nitrates are high (10 ppm), and I've changed almost all the water out over the last few days. I've siphoned the gravel, but there still seems to be something going on that I do not understand. I thought bringing the ammonia down would fix my problem and bring the Nitrites down since nitrites are being converted in the tank to nitrates. I replaced the old carbon with ammonia-neutralizing crystals made by white diamond and I'm still getting an ammonia reading that is no different from before. is white diamonds junk, or what? I do have some dead leaves off the spider plant branches that I cannot completely remove. I've been noticing that the spiderlets are starting to set roots and I'm afraid to damage the new delicate roots There is very little left over. Maybe 10% of what is left. Could that be complicating things? What is going on? I figure that the high water temp (86 degrees) might be contributing to the ammonia since it is speeding decomposition. I figure it might be my plants doing it, but I cannot remove them because my Gourami won't be happy with out there. Is the an ammonia source that I'm missing? I'm half tempted to take the tank apart, save some gravel and wash everything except some gravel and filter with vinegar and peroxide. Am I expecting too much for a tank that is still cycling? Would cleaning my tank (with exception of bio sponge, bio bag, and grave) and using completely fresh water mess up my nitrogen cycle?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????

Jerry, You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound the problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? . _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 3:52:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30719	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

Your nitrates are not extremely high. 10ppm of nitrates is actually very low. Over 100ppm would be high. Over 500ppm, extremely high. Did you ever take one or both of the FREE fish keeping tutorials that I pointed you to when you first joined? Go to my blog, the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and take both of the free tutorials which will walk you through ALL of the basics. Using the zeolite ("ammonia neutralizing crystals") will not help you cycle your tank. Zeolite will simply absorb the ammonia that you need to properly cycle the tank and build the proper sized nitrifying bacteria colonies. If you have salt in your tank, which I think you do for the Ick, then zeolite will release all of the ammonia that it soaked it. That is how zeolite is recharged.. by soaking it in a salt water solution. YOU REALLY NEED TO TAKE ONE OF THE EXPERIENCED MEMBERS OF THIS GROUP AND LISTEN TO THEM. SEVERAL MEMBERS HAVE GIVEN YOU TONS OF GOOD ADVICE AND YOU SIMPLY IGNORE IT AND GO OFF AND DO YOUR OWN THING.. THEN WHEN IT DOESN'T WORK, YOU COME BACK HERE ASKING FOR MORE ADVICE. EITHER LISTEN TO THE ADVICE THAT IS GIVEN OR QUIT ASKING FOR IT. DO NOT DO THINGS WITHOUT CHECKING WITH YOUR CHOSEN MENTOR FIRST. ASKING AFTER YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING SOMETIMES CANNOT BE FIXED. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Spike! I cannot understand what is going on in my tank. My ammonia is low (bellow 1 ppm, but my nitrates are extreemly high. My nitrates are high (10 ppm), and I've changed almost all the water out over the last few days. I've siphoned the gravel, but there still seems to be something going on that I do not understand. I thought bringing the ammonia down would fix my problem and bring the Nitrites down since nitrites are being converted in the tank to nitrates. I replaced the old carbon with ammonia-neutralizing crystals made by white diamond and I'm still getting an ammonia reading that is no different from before. is white diamonds junk, or what? I do have some dead leaves off the spider plant branches that I cannot completely remove. I've been noticing that the spiderlets are starting to set roots and I'm afraid to damage the new delicate roots There is very little left over. Maybe 10% of what is left. Could that be complicating things? What is going on? I figure that the high water temp (86 degrees) might be contributing to the ammonia since it is speeding decomposition. I figure it might be my plants doing it, but I cannot remove them because my Gourami won't be happy with out there. Is the an ammonia source that I'm missing? I'm half tempted to take the tank apart, save some gravel and wash everything except some gravel and filter with vinegar and peroxide. Am I expecting too much for a tank that is still cycling? Would cleaning my tank (with exception of bio sponge, bio bag, and grave) and using completely fresh water mess up my nitrogen cycle? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 4:05:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30720	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

Lenny, I was am the one treating for Ich with Salt but I was not the last poster about the nitrate problem. I havent even gotten my test kit for that yet. I believe it was Chris who posted that one. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:05:31 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Spike! Your nitrates are not extremely high. 10ppm of nitrates is actually verylow. Over 100ppm would be high. Over 500ppm, extremely high.Did you ever take one or both of the FREE fish keeping tutorials that Ipointed you to when you first joined? Go to my blog, the "A to Z of FishKeeping" page and take both of the free tutorials which will walk youthrough ALL of the basics. Using the zeolite ("ammonia neutralizing crystals") will not help you cycleyour tank. Zeolite will simply absorb the ammonia that you need to properlycycle the tank and build the proper sized nitrifying bacteria colonies. Ifyou have salt in your tank, which I think you do for the Ick, then zeolitewill release all of the ammonia that it soaked it. That is how zeolite isrecharged.. by soaking it in a salt water solution.YOU REALLY NEED TO TAKE ONE OF THE EXPERIENCED MEMBERS OF THIS GROUP ANDLISTEN TO THEM. SEVERAL MEMBERS HAVE GIVEN YOU TONS OF GOOD ADVICE AND YOUSIMPLY IGNORE IT AND GO OFF AND DO YOUR OWN THING.. THEN WHEN IT DOESN'TWORK, YOU COME BACK HERE ASKING FOR MORE ADVICE. EITHER LISTEN TO THEADVICE THAT IS GIVEN OR QUIT ASKING FOR IT. DO NOT DO THINGS WITHOUTCHECKING WITH YOUR CHOSEN MENTOR FIRST. ASKING AFTER YOU'VE DONE SOMETHINGSOMETIMES CANNOT BE FIXED.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of ChrisSent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:07 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Spike!I cannot understand what is going on in my tank. My ammonia is low (bellow 1ppm, but my nitrates are extreemly high. My nitrates are high (10 ppm), andI've changed almost all the water out over the last few days. I've siphonedthe gravel, but there still seems to be something going on that I do notunderstand.I thought bringing the ammonia down would fix my problem and bring theNitrites down since nitrites are being converted in the tank to nitrates. Ireplaced the old carbon with ammonia-neutralizing crystals made by whitediamond and I'm still getting an ammonia reading that is no different frombefore. is white diamonds junk, or what?I do have some dead leaves off the spider plant branches that I cannotcompletely remove. I've been noticing that the spiderlets are starting toset roots and I'm afraid to damage the new delicate roots There is verylittle left over. Maybe 10% of what is left. Could that be complicatingthings?What is going on? I figure that the high water temp (86 degrees) might becontributing to the ammonia since it is speeding decomposition. I figure itmight be my plants doing it, but I cannot remove them because my Gouramiwon't be happy with out there. Is the an ammonia source that I'm missing?I'm half tempted to take the tank apart, save some gravel and washeverything except some gravel and filter with vinegar and peroxide.Am I expecting too much for a tank that is still cycling? Would cleaning mytank (with exception of bio sponge, bio bag, and grave) and using completelyfresh water mess up my nitrogen cycle?_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008Tested on: 9/29/2008 4:05:31 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30721	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

Sarah, My reply was to Chris. If this is your original thread, then Chris must have posted in your thread which is why I replied to his post. I ALWAYS include a copy of the post and possibly the entire thread whenever I reply and if you scroll down, you will see where I was replying to Chris' post. On a side note, I notice whenever you reply to a post, all of the spaces, return lines, paragraph breaks, etc. are ALL removed making the original post kind of hard to read since it's just one run on sentence. Which email program do you use and is there a change you can make to stop the removal of all of the formatting? I kind of went down and broke things up a little but not completely so you can see what I mean. I have not noticed this kind of removal of formatting from anyone else except for your replies so I'm not thinking it's Yahoo's fault... for a change. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 4:22 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Spike! Lenny, I was am the one treating for Ich with Salt but I was not the last poster about the nitrate problem. I havent even gotten my test kit for that yet. I believe it was Chris who posted that one. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:05:31 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Spike! Your nitrates are not extremely high. 10ppm of nitrates is actually verylow. Over 100ppm would be high. Over 500ppm, extremely high.Did you ever take one or both of the FREE fish keeping tutorials that Ipointed you to when you first joined? Go to my blog, the "A to Z of FishKeeping" page and take both of the free tutorials which will walk youthrough ALL of the basics. Using the zeolite ("ammonia neutralizing crystals") will not help you cycleyour tank. Zeolite will simply absorb the ammonia that you need to properlycycle the tank and build the proper sized nitrifying bacteria colonies. Ifyou have salt in your tank, which I think you do for the Ick, then zeolitewill release all of the ammonia that it soaked it. That is how zeolite isrecharged.. by soaking it in a salt water solution.YOU REALLY NEED TO TAKE ONE OF THE EXPERIENCED MEMBERS OF THIS GROUP ANDLISTEN TO THEM. SEVERAL MEMBERS HAVE GIVEN YOU TONS OF GOOD ADVICE AND YOUSIMPLY IGNORE IT AND GO OFF AND DO YOUR OWN THING.. THEN WHEN IT DOESN'TWORK, YOU COME BACK HERE ASKING FOR MORE ADVICE. EITHER LISTEN TO THEADVICE THAT IS GIVEN OR QUIT ASKING FOR IT. DO NOT DO THINGS WITHOUTCHECKING WITH YOUR CHOSEN MENTOR FIRST. ASKING AFTER YOU'VE DONE SOMETHINGSOMETIMES CANNOT BE FIXED.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject : [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Spike! I cannot understand what is going on in my tank. My ammonia is low (bellow 1ppm, but my nitrates are extreemly high. My nitrates are high (10 ppm), andI've changed almost all the water out over the last few days. I've siphonedthe gravel, but there still seems to be something going on that I do notunderstand.I thought bringing the ammonia down would fix my problem and bring theNitrites down since nitrites are being converted in the tank to nitrates. Ireplaced the old carbon with ammonia-neutralizing crystals made by whitediamond and I'm still getting an ammonia reading that is no different frombefore. is white diamonds junk, or what?I do have some dead leaves off the spider plant branches that I cannotcompletely remove. I've been noticing that the spiderlets are starting toset roots and I'm afraid to damage the new delicate roots There is verylittle left over. Maybe 10% of what is left. Could that be complicatingthings?What is going on? I figure that the high water temp (86 degrees) might becontributing to the ammonia since it is speeding decomposition. I figure itmight be my plants doing it, but I cannot remove them because my Gouramiwon't be happy with out there. Is the an ammonia source that I'm missing?I'm half tempted to take the tank apart, save some gravel and washeverything except some gravel and filter with vinegar and peroxide.Am I expecting too much for a tank that is still cycling? Would cleaning mytank (with exception of bio sponge, bio bag, and grave) and using completelyfresh water mess up my nitrogen cycle?_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008Tested on: 9/29/2008 4:05:31 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 5:02:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30722	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

Desired level of nitrate breeding fish less than 10 ppm young fish less than 20 ppm never over 50 ppm, and I will recomande not over 25 ppm I do not make my water change base of 25 - 30 % a week, I check the nitrates and when it rise over 10 ppm, I make my water change, nitrates level is my main gauge to deside to change water, other factor influance too but nitrate is my main one

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30723	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????

It's not out of context, you ask if he use CO2 injection, and since he is using a Pengiun, it's good to know than those kind of filter throw out all the CO2 than we inject at cost in a tank. It's an informal group, until now I try to help people , but as you said they don't lissen, so now I will just make short comment on a subject I like. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 4:52 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? Jerry, You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound the problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? . _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 3:52:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30724	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? ...

Up until now, with this subject already being fairly well covered, I hadn't taken a look at the photos. Now, with suggestions of this plant matter possibly being Lesser Bladderwort, my curiousity lead me to checking these photos out. If these pics were closer up, they might be more easily identifiable. As it stands now, my perspective on this is indefinite as its not close enough for me to make an accurate determination -- although at this distance I can only say it has some resemblance to Lessor Bladderwort. If its proved to be this plant, your fish are not in danger -- but it can eat the smallest of fry. I've seen photos of it with Betta fry being trapped by it. Larger egg-laying fry would be unaffected, as would any livebearer fry. Ray. </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30725	From: CanAm	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

Good point Lenny, it's good to choose someone with experience, but it will exclude you, because you only have no experience, aside of your 60 gal. goldfish tank, Your 500 ppm nitrates level show me than you have no knowledge of what you talk about ... We are not stupid , we know than you copy a part of the question and google to find an answer. That's not qualify as an experienced fish keeper, at least not like Ray, we can see than Ray take is answer from memory and experience, not from google. I notice than since I'm in moderation, you take time to read my post and find answer before you authorize it... I have other thing to do than play with a Google fish keeper. Jerry, in french it's sound Like Gérard

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30726	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Moving fromTX to Ky

We are leaving Texas very soon, with in a week or so and I just got my fish about a month or so ago. I have 5 small golf fish, sort of small, the Koi being the largest at about 4 to 5 inches long. I really don't want to give them away. So I am going to take them with me. I did once before from Cal to Texas and it is Tx to Ky. But I have a question. I just need to know the best way to transport them. I have a aerator, but to keep the sloshing Down should I go tall and narrow or long and not so tall. Is there a way to sedate them? It will be a two day to two -1/2 day trip. When I did it before it was very cold weather and they were guppies and etc. I need any suggestions you can give me. Thanks in advance  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30727	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

Chris, That you still have ammonia is an indication that your tank has not yet cycled, but, you mentioned you added an ammonia eating zeolite to your system, and you still have an ammonia reading. If the zeolite has been in there for more than a few says, and you are still reading ammonia, I would question first your reagents, second your test method. To remedy the first, check the expiration date on your reagent. If it has expired, replace it with fresh and retest. If there is no date, time to change test kits to get one that does date the reagents it uses. For the second, read the directions that come with the test kit, and follow them explicitly. (I really think it is the former rather than the latter, so don't take it the wrong way.) Remove the zeolite from your tank. If the tank is still cycling, the zeolite is not your friend. Yes, there are times when it may be prudent to use this particular zeolite, but now is not one of them. You need the ammonia available to build up your bacterial colonies that processes the ammonia and the colonies that will handle the next step, trans forming nitrites into nitrates. If you are intent on reducing the ammonia level by other means than bacteria, get yourself something like ClorAm-X or similar. Read carefully to ensure your test kit is compatible with the water conditioner. Most ammonia de-toxifying agents cause the Nesslar's reagent to give false readings so you need to use a salicylate reagent to get a true reading. The live plants should be helping you at all points in the cycle from removing ammonia to removing nitrites and removing nitrates. 10 ppm nitrates is nothing to worry about. I'd not even be concerned about nitrates until my cycle for the tank has been established. At that time, plants and water changes should help to keep nitrates in line. I'll not open this thread to argue about nitrate levels with Lenny and Jerry. I did write a post here some time ago about nitrates that you may want to search the archives for giving my views on nitrate in the aquarium. Normally, it takes 4-8 weeks to establish a cycle. Sometimes it can take longer, especially if one tinkers with the water chemistry while the tank is going through the period to establish a cycle. Be patient and do not panic. I remember that you are using well water, but I do not know if you have ever told us what level of nitrates are in your water prior to it being placed in the tank. If you have, I apologize. In either case, test your water for nitrates and post the reading here for us to take into our mental calculations in trying to help you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 4:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Spike! I cannot understand what is going on in my tank. My ammonia is low (bellow 1 ppm, but my nitrates are extreemly high. My nitrates are high (10 ppm), and I've changed almost all the water out over the last few days. I've siphoned the gravel, but there still seems to be something going on that I do not understand. I thought bringing the ammonia down would fix my problem and bring the Nitrites down since nitrites are being converted in the tank to nitrates. I replaced the old carbon with ammonia-neutralizing crystals made by white diamond and I'm still getting an ammonia reading that is no different from before. is white diamonds junk, or what? I do have some dead leaves off the spider plant branches that I cannot completely remove. I've been noticing that the spiderlets are starting to set roots and I'm afraid to damage the new delicate roots There is very little left over. Maybe 10% of what is left. Could that be complicating things? What is going on? I figure that the high water temp (86 degrees) might be contributing to the ammonia since it is speeding decomposition. I figure it might be my plants doing it, but I cannot remove them because my Gourami won't be happy with out there. Is the an ammonia source that I'm missing? I'm half tempted to take the tank apart, save some gravel and wash everything except some gravel and filter with vinegar and peroxide. Am I expecting too much for a tank that is still cycling? Would cleaning my tank (with exception of bio sponge, bio bag, and grave) and using completely fresh water mess up my nitrogen cycle?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30728	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Moving fromTX to Ky

We have discussed moving here before. Do a search using moving as a term and see what turns up. If you have further questions please do ask. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Phelps Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Moving fromTX to Ky We are leaving Texas very soon, with in a week or so and I just got my fish about a month or so ago. I have 5 small golf fish, sort of small, the Koi being the largest at about 4 to 5 inches long. I really don't want to give them away. So I am going to take them with me. I did once before from Cal to Texas and it is Tx to Ky. But I have a question. I just need to know the best way to transport them. I have a aerator, but to keep the sloshing Down should I go tall and narrow or long and not so tall. Is there a way to sedate them? It will be a two day to two -1/2 day trip. When I did it before it was very cold weather and they were guppies and etc. I need any suggestions you can give me. Thanks in advance  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30729	From: Chris	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

I'm posting from with in the forum and don't return messages from my mail box. I just read them I trim my posts because after a while the messages start to get really long. I did reply inside the thread because it is fitting to my situation, and 2 threads about the same thing seems redundant. I'm sorry I confused you. I have been following your guys advice, but I also wanted to push things to see what would happen and figure out what I did wrong in the past when I had problems with my previous tanks from long time past and learn my boundaries from experience rather than reading about them. I have read the tutorials, but I guess I need to refresh my memory PH 7.8 My ammonia is somewhere between .25 and .5 ppm My nitrites are now 1 ppm ( I think I misread the chart anyway) and need to get my eyes checked by an optometrist) My nitrates are 5 ppm. Not so bad now. Right? I also made the comment that I was playing mad scientist (in a previous post) and was trying to push the tank a bit to see what happens. Not just to see what happens though. I want to see how I much I can get the tank to produce as high a level of nitrates as possible with out harming the fish. My thinking is kinda backwards because the tank isn't cycled yet. My only excuse is work has left my mind a bit numb lately. After the ich is gone and can lower the water temperature (2 degrees an hour) should I stop adding salt, or should I keep adding salt as part of the maintenance routine?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30730	From: Alina	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Apple snails

I haven't been feeding him anything, I was told he was a bottom feeder and would eat whatever cast offs there were from flakes and such. He does move about now and again. My water is hard, and my levels are good, tho last night I noticed a small spike in ammonia (.5) but it was time for a water change, and a filter cartridge change, all of which I did, and all the levels seem to be ok now. Other fish are pretty happy looking and none of them are hanging around him much. Just thought that perhaps with my tank being new, there might not be enough for him to eat. Thank you for the help. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What have you been trying to feed him? > > Here's a list of good calcium rich foods that many apple/mystery snail > keepers feed theirs. These calcium rich foods are even more important if > you do not have hard water with a good KH level. What are your water > parameters for pH, KH, GH? You might as well test for ammonia, nitrite and > nitrate while you're at it! ;-) > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > If you have fish that are "curious" who keep checking him out, he'll be more > likely to stay inside his shell. I also found that my mystery snails, when > I had them, were more nocturnal and were most active after lights out so > keep an eye on him after you turn the lights out for the day. There are > also times when they'll close up for a week or more at a time, sometimes > floating, but it's just something they do as part of their "normal" actions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple snails > > Hi, > > Question on snails. We've had "Gary" the apple snail for over a week. > He's not too active, mostly hiding the past few days and I am worried he may > not have enough to eat. > > Not sure why I think this -- some sites say if they are inactive, it just > means they are well fed -- but I just don't know enough about these > creatures to be sure. > > I bought two live plants for the tank this weekend, but is there anything I > can do to make sure he's eating? > > My tank is 38 or so gals, and it's relatively new...about 7 weeks. > > Alina > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 > Tested on: 9/29/2008 11:44:49 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30731	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Apple snails

Well, apple snails will travel all parts of your tank surfaces. They will eat small amounts of algae (you'll see their little nibble tracks as they crawl along the glass) but they need to be fed a varied diet just like any other "bottom feeder". All that bottom feeder means is that they generally will eat off the bottom of the tank as opposed to floating foods at the top of the tank. There are instances where apple and mystery snails will "learn" that food is available at the water surface also and they'll come up to the surface and grab food as it circulates around at the surface along the edge of the glass. They do not like ammonia or other water quality issues so that could be part of the problem. As far as changing your filter cartridge, please read over my blog article, "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning" as you are actually hurting your tank when you trash the filter cartridge.... especially on new tanks where there is only one filter system. Once a tank is fully cycled and the owner doesn't do anything to harm the nitrifying bacteria colonies (like trashing the filter), then the tank should never experience an ammonia level again. You mention that your water is hard. If the pH is above 7.5, you need to especially be careful not to put your tank into mini-cycles (any ammonia) as ammonia is much more toxic at higher pH levels and higher water temps. While at the Applesnail.net site, check out their Care Sheet for more info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple snails I haven't been feeding him anything, I was told he was a bottom feeder and would eat whatever cast offs there were from flakes and such. He does move about now and again. My water is hard, and my levels are good, tho last night I noticed a small spike in ammonia (.5) but it was time for a water change, and a filter cartridge change, all of which I did, and all the levels seem to be ok now. Other fish are pretty happy looking and none of them are hanging around him much. Just thought that perhaps with my tank being new, there might not be enough for him to eat. Thank you for the help. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What have you been trying to feed him? > > Here's a list of good calcium rich foods that many apple/mystery snail > keepers feed theirs. These calcium rich foods are even more important if > you do not have hard water with a good KH level. What are your water > parameters for pH, KH, GH? You might as well test for ammonia, nitrite and > nitrate while you're at it! ;-) > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > If you have fish that are "curious" who keep checking him out, he'll be more > likely to stay inside his shell. I also found that my mystery snails, when > I had them, were more nocturnal and were most active after lights out so > keep an eye on him after you turn the lights out for the day. There are > also times when they'll close up for a week or more at a time, sometimes > floating, but it's just something they do as part of their "normal" actions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple snails > > Hi, > > Question on snails. We've had "Gary" the apple snail for over a week. > He's not too active, mostly hiding the past few days and I am worried he may > not have enough to eat. > > Not sure why I think this -- some sites say if they are inactive, it just > means they are well fed -- but I just don't know enough about these > creatures to be sure. > > I bought two live plants for the tank this weekend, but is there anything I > can do to make sure he's eating? > > My tank is 38 or so gals, and it's relatively new...about 7 weeks. > > Alina > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 8:58:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30732	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

Without the other messages in the thread, it becomes difficult to follow the thread. Unfortunately, Yahoo! caps the messages at 50,000 characters, and truncates the message. That is too bad. It is easier to archive one message that contains the thread than to archive 50 that are related. Believe it or not, it takes less space. I replied to your first message here, and the only real measurement you gave was 10 ppm of nitrates. That is pretty meaningless without the other measurements of ammonia and nitrite, at a minimum. Nitrates in your water supply is also important, since you (and we) know that is your baseline, and you are likely to see your tank nitrates higher than that level. The numbers you give here do not look bad for a cycling tank. We do need to get the ammonia and nitrites down to 0, though, and that will just take some more time. As for the salt, after the treatment period ends (should be 10-14 days, normally), end the salt additions, and the salt will slowly be removed by your partial water changes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Spike! I'm posting from with in the forum and don't return messages from my mail box. I just read them I trim my posts because after a while the messages start to get really long. I did reply inside the thread because it is fitting to my situation, and 2 threads about the same thing seems redundant. I'm sorry I confused you. I have been following your guys advice, but I also wanted to push things to see what would happen and figure out what I did wrong in the past when I had problems with my previous tanks from long time past and learn my boundaries from experience rather than reading about them. I have read the tutorials, but I guess I need to refresh my memory PH 7.8 My ammonia is somewhere between .25 and .5 ppm My nitrites are now 1 ppm ( I think I misread the chart anyway) and need to get my eyes checked by an optometrist) My nitrates are 5 ppm. Not so bad now. Right? I also made the comment that I was playing mad scientist (in a previous post) and was trying to push the tank a bit to see what happens. Not just to see what happens though. I want to see how I much I can get the tank to produce as high a level of nitrates as possible with out harming the fish. My thinking is kinda backwards because the tank isn't cycled yet. My only excuse is work has left my mind a bit numb lately. After the ich is gone and can lower the water temperature (2 degrees an hour) should I stop adding salt, or should I keep adding salt as part of the maintenance routine?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30733	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????

Is red algae the red-brown colored stuff that collects in bird baths? If so, I wonder if it isn't airborne. It grows on my window ledge from the dripping air conditioner, and in assorted places in teh house. And pieces of it seem to turn up in any sample of household dust one picks up and puts under the microscope. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "CanAm" <canam-pc@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? Red Algae ( Rhodophyte ) contain 5000 species , mainly all marine, but you have around 150 species in freshwater, the fact they are red or brown do not means they are dying, that's their color, they can be purple too. That's an other thought one ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30734	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????

What would a Penguin filter specifically do to the CO2 levels? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:52 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? Jerry, You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound the problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CanAm Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? . _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 3:52:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30735	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/29/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

Nitrates in a tank can be up to 20 ppm and everything is fine. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:07 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Spike! I cannot understand what is going on in my tank. My ammonia is low (bellow 1 ppm, but my nitrates are extreemly high. My nitrates are high (10 ppm), and I've changed almost all the water out over the last few days. I've siphoned the gravel, but there still seems to be something going on that I do not understand. I thought bringing the ammonia down would fix my problem and bring the Nitrites down since nitrites are being converted in the tank to nitrates. I replaced the old carbon with ammonia-neutralizing crystals made by white diamond and I'm still getting an ammonia reading that is no different from before. is white diamonds junk, or what? I do have some dead leaves off the spider plant branches that I cannot completely remove. I've been noticing that the spiderlets are starting to set roots and I'm afraid to damage the new delicate roots There is very little left over. Maybe 10% of what is left. Could that be complicating things? What is going on? I figure that the high water temp (86 degrees) might be contributing to the ammonia since it is speeding decomposition. I figure it might be my plants doing it, but I cannot remove them because my Gourami won't be happy with out there. Is the an ammonia source that I'm missing? I'm half tempted to take the tank apart, save some gravel and wash everything except some gravel and filter with vinegar and peroxide. Am I expecting too much for a tank that is still cycling? Would cleaning my tank (with exception of bio sponge, bio bag, and grave) and using completely fresh water mess up my nitrogen cycle? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30736	From: josh4fish	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach

I understand what you mean about tank size, but water teemp is not an issue. As it says in the article you have link to, bristlenoses are happy in temps from 23C whereas hillstreams like it anywhere up to 24C as long as there is enough water current and oxygen. So I believe they would be fine together. Its more the aggression side I want to know about. Thanks anyway. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > BN Pleco's are more of a tropical fish where the Hillstream Loach is a > cool/cold water fish. Depending on the temp of your tank, one of the fish > would not be as suitable. > > Your tank is also on the small side for a BN pleco which should be kept in > at least a 30G tank. They grow to 6" long. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Ancistrus_dolichopterus.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of josh4fish > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach > > Hey, > > Would a bristlenose live ok with a Hillstream Loach or would the Bristlenose > be a bit aggresive? > > Its a 70 L tank. > > Thanks guys. > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 > Tested on: 9/29/2008 11:52:55 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30737	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach

Josh, While there are temperature ranges in the profiles for most fish, those ranges are meant as the extreme upper and lower limits that the fish live in the wild. It does not mean they "like" those temperatures or will be "happy" at those extremes. It means they can tolerate that temperature range. In your case, you will have to keep one fish at the extreme upper temp and the other fish at the extreme lower temp ALL of the time. This is not good for either fish. This would be comparable to a human, who can handle a broad range of temperatures but if you have to live your entire life at one of the extreme ranges of your tolerable temperatures, you will not be a very happy camper. When fish are not happy, they get stressed. Stressed fish suffer immune system issues meaning they will be far more likely to get sick. Fish are also cold blooded meaning one of the fish will have a constantly increased metabolism and the other will have a constantly reduced metabolism... and this will be all of the time because you will either have to keep the temp exactly at that upper/lower temperature extremes for each fish or if you keep the water at a better temperature for one of the fish, then the other fish will really be outside of it's tolerable range. Also remember that in the wild, their water conditions are much better where they are not stuck in a closed ecosystem, often overstocked or undersized which further leaves them prone to stress related immune system deficiencies. Good luck to you and your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josh4fish Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 3:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach I understand what you mean about tank size, but water teemp is not an issue. As it says in the article you have link to, bristlenoses are happy in temps from 23C whereas hillstreams like it anywhere up to 24C as long as there is enough water current and oxygen. So I believe they would be fine together. Its more the aggression side I want to know about. Thanks anyway. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > BN Pleco's are more of a tropical fish where the Hillstream Loach is a > cool/cold water fish. Depending on the temp of your tank, one of the fish > would not be as suitable. > > Your tank is also on the small side for a BN pleco which should be kept in > at least a 30G tank. They grow to 6" long. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Ancistrus_dolichopterus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Ancistrus_dolichopterus.html> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of josh4fish > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach > > Hey, > > Would a bristlenose live ok with a Hillstream Loach or would the Bristlenose > be a bit aggresive? > > Its a 70 L tank. > > Thanks guys. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 4:21:23 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30738	From: josh4fish	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach

Fair enough, point taken. Its just my bristlenose seems to get picked on alot in the tank he is in at the moment, was trying to find a simple solution. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Josh, > > While there are temperature ranges in the profiles for most fish, those > ranges are meant as the extreme upper and lower limits that the fish live in > the wild. It does not mean they "like" those temperatures or will be > "happy" at those extremes. It means they can tolerate that temperature > range. In your case, you will have to keep one fish at the extreme upper > temp and the other fish at the extreme lower temp ALL of the time. This is > not good for either fish. > > This would be comparable to a human, who can handle a broad range of > temperatures but if you have to live your entire life at one of the extreme > ranges of your tolerable temperatures, you will not be a very happy camper. > When fish are not happy, they get stressed. Stressed fish suffer immune > system issues meaning they will be far more likely to get sick. Fish are > also cold blooded meaning one of the fish will have a constantly increased > metabolism and the other will have a constantly reduced metabolism... and > this will be all of the time because you will either have to keep the temp > exactly at that upper/lower temperature extremes for each fish or if you > keep the water at a better temperature for one of the fish, then the other > fish will really be outside of it's tolerable range. > > Also remember that in the wild, their water conditions are much better where > they are not stuck in a closed ecosystem, often overstocked or undersized > which further leaves them prone to stress related immune system > deficiencies. > > Good luck to you and your fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of josh4fish > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 3:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach > > I understand what you mean about tank size, but water teemp is not an issue. > As it says in the article you have link to, bristlenoses are happy in temps > from 23C whereas hillstreams like it anywhere up to 24C as long as there is > enough water current and oxygen. So I believe they would be fine together. > Its more the aggression side I want to know about. > > Thanks anyway. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > BN Pleco's are more of a tropical fish where the Hillstream Loach is a > > cool/cold water fish. Depending on the temp of your tank, one of > the fish > > would not be as suitable. > > > > Your tank is also on the small side for a BN pleco which should be > kept in > > at least a 30G tank. They grow to 6" long. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Ancistrus_dolichopterus.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Ancistrus_dolichopterus.html> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of josh4fish > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:07 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bristlenose and Hillstream Loach > > > > Hey, > > > > Would a bristlenose live ok with a Hillstream Loach or would the > Bristlenose > > be a bit aggresive? > > > > Its a 70 L tank. > > > > Thanks guys. > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008 > Tested on: 9/30/2008 4:21:23 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30739	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Todays water

I filled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the 35 gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and here are todays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8) No2- .8 (1.6) No3 0 (0) GH 8 (9) KH 8 (9) Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morning I put 4 table spoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions but with less) I had since taken and did a 40% water change and did not add anymore salt. I know my tank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was a rescue shark from a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as of right now I cannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues. As for meds, I have nothing but salt in there right now (as long as the carbon has taken it all out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seems to be gone and melafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working. I have heard great things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about getting that for future use. On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed that too and its really obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoos group rather than my email. Sarah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30740	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Todays water

Hi Sarah, I'm glad to see your fish are doing better. Jumping to the side note next, there must be a setting in Hotmail that is stripping the original messages of all of their formatting. I haven't used Hotmail in many, many years so I can't really help you with that. If you like using freemail (I do!), you might want to try Google's Gmail http://www.gmail.com It's, by far, the best freemail service out there right now... much better than Hotmail or Yahoo. Virtually unlimited storage so you never have to delete email ever again if you choose. Large attachments allowed.. I think up to 20MB now. POP3 and IMAP available so you can use Outlook, Outlook Express or other email client to download and reply, etc. The good thing about replying with email is that it saves all of the previous replies where replying from the group's website will not include them unless you copy/paste them manually. You need to get a new heater and possibly get two half-sized heaters instead of one full size (see a recent thread where we discussed this). This gives you redundancy in the event of a heater failure... although a quality heater brand will not be as susceptible to failing. A temperature drop of 6F is enough to cause an Ich outbreak but there are some reports that say that once a fish has Ich, it builds up a much higher resistance to it in the future so maybe your fish already have this. It's still not good for the fish to go through this much of a temperature change. I do not see an ammonia (NH3/NH4) or pH test results. I thought you used to post them also. If I recall correctly, your tap water had the very hard water with a pH of 7.5 that would drop down to 7.0 after the 48 hour baseline test but your tank was causing the pH to go up to 9.0. Last week, you did a 40% PWC using bottle spring water which lowered your pH, hardness, etc. Did you top it off with tap water or bottle spring water this time? Have you decided if you are going to stay with the tap or the bottled or a regular and consistent mix of both? Melafix does work, IMO, but it's a mild antibacterial so you won't see rapid results from it. It's more for external bacterial issues like fin rot, etc. but I've also used it, along with Pimafix, which when combined are a much stronger antibacterial, for things like Popeye and other internal bacterial issues. I would not pre-purchase too many meds, especially if they have an expiration date. About the only things I keep on hand are Melafix and Pimafix since they last a long time. Fortunately, I do not get sick fish very often... usually only when I adopt a sick tank. For the most part, keeping the water quality in good condition will keep the fish in good condition. Doing weekly 25% PWC's for the average tank will go a long, long way at keeping the fish healthy. I would guess that 90% of sick fish are a result of water quality issues with an exception for new fish which can have many health issues due to all of the stress of being overstocked at the distributor and retail levels and all of the stress from being shipped/transported prior to your ever purchasing them. Once you've improved your overall stocking issues and your tank is fully cycled, you will find that your fish will be much happier and healthier. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Todays water I filled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the 35 gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and here are todays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8) No2- .8 (1.6) No3 0 (0) GH 8 (9) KH 8 (9) Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morning I put 4 table spoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions but with less) I had since taken and did a 40% water change and did not add anymore salt. I know my tank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was a rescue shark from a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as of right now I cannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues. As for meds, I have nothing but salt in there right now (as long as the carbon has taken it all out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seems to be gone and melafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working. I have heard great things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about getting that for future use. On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed that too and its really obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoos group rather than my email. Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 11:34:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30741	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Todays water

Oops.. I forgot to mention. Keep at least the "pinch per 10G" of salt level in your tank while you are still having nitrite (NO2-) issues. You still have more than that level right now since you had added four tablespoons and then did a 40% PWC so you still have more than two tablespoons in your tank. I see your nitrate (NO3-) level is still 0 which means your tank is not cycling yet. You need to test your ammonia to make sure you are not having an ammonia spike as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Todays water I filled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the 35 gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and here are todays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8) No2- .8 (1.6) No3 0 (0) GH 8 (9) KH 8 (9) Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morning I put 4 table spoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions but with less) I had since taken and did a 40% water change and did not add anymore salt. I know my tank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was a rescue shark from a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as of right now I cannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues. As for meds, I have nothing but salt in there right now (as long as the carbon has taken it all out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seems to be gone and melafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working. I have heard great things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about getting that for future use. On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed that too and its really obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoos group rather than my email. Sarah ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 11:00:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 11:37:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30742	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Introduction

Hello folks, ??? ??? I am new around here and fairly new to the hobby. I am a 25 yr. old female, originally from Cape Cod, Massachusetts but I've been living in Toledo, Ohio for 2 years. I am a graduate student at the University of Toledo getting my MS in Ecology. ??? ??? My experience/knowledge is limited. I had a couple fish growing up, here and there but didn't really get into the hobby until right before I moved out here. Before I left I set my mother up with a planted tank w/ some Endlers which is still doing fine last time I checked. When I moved out here, I adopted a 20g community tank. After that, things kind of halted as I attempted to get a job, get into grad. school, etc... I've also been saving up for a 55g. I have also read a few books, I keep up with a few forums, and worked as an Aquatic Ecologist for the past couple of years for ODNR and NOAA (though my research for my MS is in microbiology; though that does give me a good understanding of cycling). ??? During my research for my 55g, I have come to realize that the person who established my 20g didn't do her research, and that I have been torturing these poor guys for a couple years! I have 3 schooling species which are NOT in schools!! So, instead of making a new community for my 55g these guys will get an upgrade in habitat and company. ??? My current community is 2 Pristella Tetra, 2 Longfin Blackskirt Tetra and 3 Zebra Danios. I am working on setting up a 55g for them, a 1g for a couple shrimp, and a 10g for some wild endlers someone is going to give me. After all of those are set up and running smooth, I plan on converting my 20g into a guppy tank. ??? Glad to be here! ???????? Kara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30743	From: Alison	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder?

I'm looking into getting a pair of Killifish, or maybe start some eggs. Does anyone know of a good reliable breeder? Alison

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30744	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Todays water

My PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gotten my test for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stress coat in. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decided to use spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I will just take my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that the water isnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank. I just bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kicked it up this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, so it's going back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to it soon, because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with the fish more if I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get a working heater again? Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. It seems like he is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he is still like this when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do I just have a hyperactive fish? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water Oops.. I forgot to mention. Keep at least the "pinch per 10G" of salt levelin your tank while you are still having nitrite (NO2-) issues. You stillhave more than that level right now since you had added four tablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still have more than two tablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level is still 0 which means your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test your ammonia to make sure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Todays waterI filled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the35 gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and here aretodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0 (0)GH 8 (9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4 table spoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) I had since taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I know my tank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescue shark from a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright now I cannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds, I have nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has taken it all out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be gone and melafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I have heard great things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthat for future use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed that too and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoos group ratherthan my email.Sarah________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008Tested on: 9/30/2008 11:00:01 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008Tested on: 9/30/2008 11:37:58 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30745	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Introduction

Welcome to the group and Go Buckeyes! LOL I know you may not be a Buckeye fan but my dads side of the family is from OH so I grew up as a Buckeye fan. Now, I'm more of a Geaux Tigers! fan. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction Hello folks, ??? ??? I am new around here and fairly new to the hobby. I am a 25 yr. old female, originally from Cape Cod, Massachusetts but I've been living in Toledo, Ohio for 2 years. I am a graduate student at the University of Toledo getting my MS in Ecology. ??? ??? My experience/knowledge is limited. I had a couple fish growing up, here and there but didn't really get into the hobby until right before I moved out here. Before I left I set my mother up with a planted tank w/ some Endlers which is still doing fine last time I checked. When I moved out here, I adopted a 20g community tank. After that, things kind of halted as I attempted to get a job, get into grad. school, etc... I've also been saving up for a 55g. I have also read a few books, I keep up with a few forums, and worked as an Aquatic Ecologist for the past couple of years for ODNR and NOAA (though my research for my MS is in microbiology; though that does give me a good understanding of cycling). ??? During my research for my 55g, I have come to realize that the person who established my 20g didn't do her research, and that I have been torturing these poor guys for a couple years! I have 3 schooling species which are NOT in schools!! So, instead of making a new community for my 55g these guys will get an upgrade in habitat and company. ??? My current community is 2 Pristella Tetra, 2 Longfin Blackskirt Tetra and 3 Zebra Danios. I am working on setting up a 55g for them, a 1g for a couple shrimp, and a 10g for some wild endlers someone is going to give me. After all of those are set up and running smooth, I plan on converting my 20g into a guppy tank. ??? Glad to be here! ???????? Kara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 11:55:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 12:04:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Todays water

OK. That's good that your ammonia is still at 0.0ppm. You really need to get that Nitrate test kit so you will know when your nitrite eating bacteria are starting to do their job. For the long run, you will use your nitrate test far more often than the ammonia and nitrite tests. Your nitrate test kit will be one of the tests that determine how often you need to do your PWC's and what percentage PWC you need to do to keep the water quality in good shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as my primary tests in establishing my routines on my tanks. If you are refilling your bottles at one of those machines, you want to do the 48 hour baseline test on that water as well so you can know what your starting point is going to be. While they might call it "spring water", all it is going to be is filtered tap water. I'm betting they didn't drill down into an underwater spring before putting the vending machine in place. ;-) If at some point in the future, you decide that is an inconvenience or the cost starts to add up, there are under-sink filter systems that will do the same thing. I've never worried about filtering my water before although when I did rescue a Betta after Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him to the water from my tap, but with the Pur water filter on since it wasn't much water being changed and I was doing daily 25% changes on his small vase until I was able to set up a 10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10G tank, I went back to using regular tap water for him. What kind of light do you have on your tank? If it's fluorescent, it does not put out much, if any heat. The bulbs are cool to the touch even when lit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do put out lots of heat so if you do not have a heater, that may be an option. You could also wrap the tank in a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at night and maybe only turn out the lights for four hours with the tank wrapped in a blanket. That would at least give the fish some dark time while not allowing the tank temp to drop down. You definitely want a heater for the tropical fish. If you read over the Mongabay profile http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html on the ID Shark (actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fish with poor eyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get very BIG so it could be that it is just looking for more food. Catfish are often scavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging for food. I do not see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quite often nocturnal but possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on the scientific name to read up more on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:52 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water My PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gotten my test for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stress coat in. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decided to use spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I will just take my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that the water isnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank. I just bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kicked it up this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, so it's going back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to it soon, because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with the fish more if I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get a working heater again? Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. It seems like he is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he is still like this when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do I just have a hyperactive fish? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water Oops.. I forgot to mention. Keep at least the "pinch per 10G" of salt levelin your tank while you are still having nitrite (NO2-) issues. You stillhave more than that level right now since you had added four tablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still have more than two tablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level is still 0 which means your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test your ammonia to make sure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Todays waterI filled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the35 gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and here aretodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0 (0)GH 8 (9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4 table spoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) I had since taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I know my tank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescue shark from a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright now I cannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds, I have nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has taken it all out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be gone and melafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I have heard great things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthat for future use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed that too and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoos group ratherthan my email.Sarah________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008Tested on: 9/30/2008 11:00:01 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008Tested on: 9/30/2008 11:37:58 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 12:15:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 12:34:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30747	From: deborahgd14	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder?

Fred Behrmann from Catskill, NY. He also sells them on aquabid. His e- mail is: athensaquatics@... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alison" <bluejett12@...> wrote: > > I'm looking into getting a pair of Killifish, or maybe start some eggs. > Does anyone know of a good reliable breeder? > > Alison >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30748	From: deborahgd14	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Moving fromTX to Ky

I moved mine from NYS to SC and just bagged them up like the pet stores do. I had oxygen from Petsmart and put them in a cooler. When we went to a hotel, I just brought the box in. they did fine. Deborah --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > We have discussed moving here before. Do a search using moving as a term and see what turns up. If you have further questions please do ask. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Phelps > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Moving fromTX to Ky > > We are leaving Texas very soon, with in a week or so and I just got my fish > about a month or so ago. I have 5 small golf fish, sort of small, the Koi > being the largest at about > > 4 to 5 inches long. I really don't want to give them away. So I am going > to take them with me. I did once before from Cal to Texas and it is Tx to > Ky. But I have a question. I just need to know the best way to transport > them. I have a aerator, but to keep the sloshing Down should I go tall and > narrow or long and not so tall. Is there a way to sedate them? It will > be a two day to two -1/2 day trip. When I did it before it was very cold > weather and they were guppies and etc. > > I need any suggestions you can give me. > > Thanks in advance > >  > > Margie > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30749	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

Keep doing water changes and quit adding chemicals.The nitrites will go down in a day or 3 as part of the cycle. why is your tank so hot? Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30750	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder?

What part of the country are you in? There are Killie clubs in most states, and fish can be had real cheap in the Local fish club auctions. There also many sellers on Aqua Bid (www aquabid.com ) under Killifish. Check the sellers feedback & you will know if they are reliable or no Be sure to get fish that are mature enough to spawn and have newly hatched brine shrimp ready when the eggs hatch. I believe it is best to start out with some of the easier to keep species like Fundulopanchex or Aphyosimion group. These 2 species are mop spawners. If you have a local fish store close by, see if they carry any books on killies. TFH puts out a soft cover Book that is really good. (Don't know if it's still in print). You can always check your local library also for books. Bill -------Original Message------- From: deborahgd14 Date: 9/30/2008 1:15:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] Re: Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder? Fred Behrmann from Catskill, NY. He also sells them on aquabid. His e- mail is: athensaquatics@... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alison" <bluejett12@...> wrote: > > I'm looking into getting a pair of Killifish, or maybe start some eggs. > Does anyone know of a good reliable breeder? > > Alison > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30751	From: Nedra	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????

Thanks to everyone for responding. No I do not inject C02 nor do I fertilize. I will test for nitrates tonight -- but don't know how to test for c02 levels. Thank you for the links, they were very interesting; but nothing looked like what I have -- although I'm not sure how long 2 to 3 mm is, I'm thinking it's longer than the fibers in this thin "film" (if it is made up of fibers). It's so tiny I can't see if it is comprised of fibers. You can see through it on the glass it's such a thin film, but it covers the entire glass and is not a clumping type algae. Very easy to scrape off with a razor blade -- kindof rolls up in front of the blade and floats away. Too tiny and fragile to remove from the tank once it's dislodged. It can easily be scraped off the drift wood with a finger nail (obviously too many convolutions in dw to use a razor blade.) I'm wondering about the cyanobacteria spoken of in one of the links below treated with erythromycin (sp.). It doesn't specifically mention what that treatment does to the fish and plants -- it did mention that it will kill the bacteria in a filter bed. What do you think about using it as an experiment just to see if it gets rid of this stuff? Maybe removing the bio filter and setting up a little box filter for the 24 hours or however long it takes? What about the fish and plants? Also appreciate the info on light. I can reduce the light - maybe turn it off when I leave for work and then turn it back on in the evening when I get home so I can enjoy the fish while I'm there. Boy, that should really confuse those angel fish! grin :-) I'm certainly no expert, but my plants (particularly vallisinera) seem to flourish with the long daylight hours -- so I'd like to cut back gradually to see how the plants react. So another option might be to turn the lights on at 7AM instead of 5AM and turn them off at 8PM instead of 9 or 10PM. That would cut back 3 hrs -- then if everything was still flourishing I could cut a couple more hours back. How does everyone else manage their lights when they work all day and want to enjoy their fish in the evening? BTW, I just have an ordinary florescent tank light over the tank -- nothing staged or fancy. I would also like to hear a little more about over filtering -- when I first started reading about aquariums, I read somewhere you couldn't have too much filtration on a tank (as long as the current was comfortable, that is). I'm getting ready to set up a 55 gal planted aquarium and would like to "get it right". (Plants are so darned expensive) I got the impression that my excessive filtration is leaching out the C02 for the plants, but wouldn't they be dying if that was the case? I'd like to ask a few questions about setting up this 55 gal but will start a new thread for that. Thanks again to everyone for the help! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Is this what you have, since you call it "Red algae"? > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/brush-algae.jpg from... > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html > > Or could it just be dying "green" algae turning brown? Never mind on this. > As I re-read your post, you have a brownish red film? Well, I guess that > could still be dying algae decaying. > > Red slime algae could also be cyanobacteria, also called BGA, blue- green > algae but there is a reddish colored variant also. > > The first thing that jumps out at me is your 16 hours of lighting. That is > excessive IMO. 8 to 12 hours is the most that I would ever give a simple > planted depending on the other trilogy factors... nutrient level and CO2 > level. Since you have a lot of circulation, your CO2 levels are probably > low. We don't know your nitrate levels but unless all three are balanced > properly, you will almost always get algae. Do you have CO2 injection? Are > you adding fertilizers? > > If you can test your nitrates and CO2 levels (see 1/2 way down on this > page... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm) it would help > but I think the first thing you need to do is shorten your light cycle. > > I try to mimic nature and I only have full lighting on for 6-8 hours a day > depending on my simple planted tanks... no CO2 injection and no special > nutrients added. For aquatic plants in nature, they do not get much of the > morning or afternoon/evening sunlight so they really only get full lighting > from around 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.... depending on the orientation to the equator > and seasonal adjustments in nature. I have room lighting on during the > early morning hours and late evening hours... or if you have more advanced > lighting, you could dial back the lighting on your tanks during those hours. > > Take a look at the pics on these pages to see if any of these algae are what > you are seeing. > http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 > http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Nedra > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Hi everyone, Appreciate any suggestions re: this annoying turn of events in > my "show" tank. How do I get rid of it? It's a mature tank (4 or 5 years > old) - 29Gal with two penguin filters rated for 50G. Ammonia, nitrites are > 0ppm. pH was 7.6, but I haven't tested it recently. I didn't test for > nitrates, but figure they are high enough to support plant life. > Fish are healthy - a breeding pair of angels that spawn every two weeks like > clock work, and guppies. Angels have actually raised fry on their own in > this tank; another reason I think the water quality is probably pretty good. > I don't know the hardness. I do not use aquarium salt or any chemicals > except Prime conditioner with water changes. I replace somewhere between > 10-40% of the water every week depending on how ambitious I feel on the > water change day. The tank is lit around 16 hours a day and that has not > changed over the years. I've had green algae but I'm not over run with it > and manage to control it with frequent water changes -- but this stuff; even > the snails don't seem to eat it and the otocinclus (sp.)wouldn't touch it > either. It seems to have knocked the green algae out of the tank -- enough > so that the little oto began sucking on the big male angel -- I think he was > very hungry and I've since moved him over to another tank where he can get > more food. > > I may have introduced this stuff feeding live blackworms? The tank was > planted with crypts and java moss on driftwood. > The brownish red film has moved onto the Malaysian driftwood and looks like > it may be growing on the java moss (not good). A few strands of the moss are > covered with the stuff. > Yesterday I added as many live plants as I could to the tank, thinking I > might starve it into submission. > Does anyone know where I got this stuff, and how to kill it without damaging > the plants (the java moss on the Malaysian d.w.) Sorry for being so "wordy" > -- I've tried to describe the water conditions to my best ability. > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 > Tested on: 9/29/2008 2:28:44 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30752	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Todays water

Hi Lenny, I did a water base line like you suggested and the readings are as follows using Jungle test strips. Out of tap 24 hrs 48 hrs ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- NITRATE 20 10 10 NITRITE .5 0 0 GH 25 0 0 TOTAL CHLORINE 0 0 0 KH (Alkalinity) 300 150 150 PH 7.2 7.8 7.2 Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48 hrs (temp taken with digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were not taken. My initial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using API liquid test media). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date on bottle 0708). Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25% water changes in all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3 days later. A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be more active, and colors got more intense. Thanks, Bill Scott So. California. -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 10:35:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water OK. That's good that your ammonia is still at 0.0ppm. You really need to get that Nitrate test kit so you will know when your nitrite eating bacteria are starting to do their job. For the long run, you will use your nitrate test far more often than the ammonia and nitrite tests. Your nitrate test kit will be one of the tests that determine how often you need to do your PWC's and what percentage PWC you need to do to keep the water quality in good shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as my primary tests in establishing my routines on my tanks. If you are refilling your bottles at one of those machines, you want to do the 48 hour baseline test on that water as well so you can know what your starting point is going to be. While they might call it "spring water", all it is going to be is filtered tap water. I'm betting they didn't drill down into an underwater spring before putting the vending machine in place. ;-) If at some point in the future, you decide that is an inconvenience or the cost starts to add up, there are under-sink filter systems that will do the same thing. I've never worried about filtering my water before although when I did rescue a Betta after Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him to the water from my tap, but with the Pur water filter on since it wasn't much water being changed and I was doing daily 25% changes on his small vase until I was able to set up a 10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10G tank, I went back to using regular tap water for him. What kind of light do you have on your tank? If it's fluorescent, it does not put out much, if any heat. The bulbs are cool to the touch even when lit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do put out lots of heat so if you do not have a heater, that may be an option. You could also wrap the tank in a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at night and maybe only turn out the lights for four hours with the tank wrapped in a blanket. That would at least give the fish some dark time while not allowing the tank temp to drop down. You definitely want a heater for the tropical fish. If you read over the Mongabay profile http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html on the ID Shark (actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fish with poor eyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get very BIG so it could be that it is just looking for more food. Catfish are often scavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging for food. I do not see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quite often nocturnal but possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on the scientific name to read up more on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:52 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water My PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gotten my test for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stress coat in. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decided to use spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I will just take my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that the water isnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank. I just bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kicked it up this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, so it's going back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to it soon, because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with the fish more if I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get a working heater again? Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. It seems like he is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he is still like this when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do I just have a hyperactive fish? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water Oops.. I forgot to mention. Keep at least the "pinch per 10G" of salt levelin your tank while you are still having nitrite (NO2-) issues. You stillhave more than that level right now since you had added four tablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still have more than two tablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level is still 0 which means your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test your ammonia to make sure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Todays waterI filled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the35 gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and here aretodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0 (0)GH 8 (9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4 table spoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) I had since taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I know my tank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescue shark from a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright now I cannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds, I have nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has taken it all out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be gone and melafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I have heard great things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthat for future use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed that too and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoos group ratherthan my email.Sarah________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008Tested on: 9/30/2008 11:00:01 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008Tested on: 9/30/2008 11:37:58 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 12:15:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080929-1, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 12:34:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30753	From: Nedra	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Setting up a 55 gal

Hi everyone! This is a used tank and I'll be tearing it down and setting it up again (hopefully the same day). I plan to take the gravel out and transport it in buckets - no rinsing. I'll probably rinse the tank out with water only - might have to scrape the sides if it has lime or algae built up. But thought I could minimize or eliminate the cycle time if I use the existing gravel and am very careful with the bio filter during transport. What are your thoughts?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30754	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 gal

How you clean it will depend on how dirty it is and how long it's been sittign around. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nedra" <terrierlover2002@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Setting up a 55 gal Hi everyone! This is a used tank and I'll be tearing it down and setting it up again (hopefully the same day). I plan to take the gravel out and transport it in buckets - no rinsing. I'll probably rinse the tank out with water only - might have to scrape the sides if it has lime or algae built up. But thought I could minimize or eliminate the cycle time if I use the existing gravel and am very careful with the bio filter during transport. What are your thoughts? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30755	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder?

Where are you located, Alison? There may be a killie club near you, which will be a tremendous help to you. In any case go the www.thefishwizards.com, buy Tony's books, and look at the fish they offer. They also link to the AKA (American Killifish Association) so you can get a membership in that group (annual convention every Memorial Day weekend). Take a look at some of the killies they offer on the site. You will need to e-mail for a current list of fish they have. As far as trustworthy, they don't know any other way to live. I've known Tony for over 20 years, though we only see each other about once a year now that I don't live in New England any more. I've known Dave Rossi for a shorter period of time, and have not seen him for some time. Others here can probably vouch for the two as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alison Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder? I'm looking into getting a pair of Killifish, or maybe start some eggs. Does anyone know of a good reliable breeder? Alison

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30756	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Introduction

You say you are from the Cape. You don't say where on the Cape. A friend of mine runs Stage Stop Candy over in Dennisport. Know the place? Keeping a tank will give you some lessons in ecology, sometimes a bit too quickly <g>> Welcome to the list. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 12:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction Hello folks, ??? ??? I am new around here and fairly new to the hobby. I am a 25 yr. old female, originally from Cape Cod, Massachusetts but I've been living in Toledo, Ohio for 2 years. I am a graduate student at the University of Toledo getting my MS in Ecology. ??? ??? My experience/knowledge is limited. I had a couple fish growing up, here and there but didn't really get into the hobby until right before I moved out here. Before I left I set my mother up with a planted tank w/ some Endlers which is still doing fine last time I checked. When I moved out here, I adopted a 20g community tank. After that, things kind of halted as I attempted to get a job, get into grad. school, etc... I've also been saving up for a 55g. I have also read a few books, I keep up with a few forums, and worked as an Aquatic Ecologist for the past couple of years for ODNR and NOAA (though my research for my MS is in microbiology; though that does give me a good understanding of cycling). ??? During my research for my 55g, I have come to realize that the person who established my 20g didn't do her research, and that I have been torturing these poor guys for a couple years! I have 3 schooling species which are NOT in schools!! So, instead of making a new community for my 55g these guys will get an upgrade in habitat and company. ??? My current community is 2 Pristella Tetra, 2 Longfin Blackskirt Tetra and 3 Zebra Danios. I am working on setting up a 55g for them, a 1g for a couple shrimp, and a 10g for some wild endlers someone is going to give me. After all of those are set up and running smooth, I plan on converting my 20g into a guppy tank. ??? Glad to be here! ???????? Kara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30757	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Red algae, anyone????

As far as your lighting goes. If you really want to keep the tank lights on till 9-10PM, then you want to slowly change the loonnnngggg "daytime" that your fish have become acclimated to. If you are turning the tank lights on at 5AM now, move it to 6AM for a week, then 7AM, then 8AM, then 9AM until you have the lights coming on around noon. Then leaving them on from noon till 10PM will give you 10 hours of lighting which should be plenty for most plants in low-tech tanks (low-tech = no CO2, fertilizers, etc.). The simple way would be a timer that you could set one time and it would turn them on and off at the same time everyday and then you could change the on time by an hour each week until you have the fish acclimated to 10 hours a day. They will still get ambient room lighting in the morning hours but it won't be nearly the strength of lighting from your tank lights. I would NOT do the dual lighting cycle. I'm not sure what the long-term ramifications would be... maybe the fish would age twice as fast thinking there were two days for every one day... who knows. LOL God doesn't do it that way and things sure work pretty good in nature so I try to mimic nature with my tanks. ;-) How many watts per gallon do you have of lighting and how deep is your tank? I would not go with the erythromycin for treatment of cyanobacteria yet until you can get some pictures or better yet, bring a sample to one of your local universities biology departments to see if they can identify it. That one page I gave you to Chuck's Planted Tank (on CSD.net) has a CO2 calculator where you put in the pH and KH levels (and temperature is a factor) to find out your CO2 level. It's best to test your CO 2 levels twice a day... first thing in the morning and then right before lights out. This will give you a better idea of the CO2 level swing since it will be higher after a night of lights out since the plants will not be using the CO2 put out by the fish and ecology of the tank. At the end of full lighting period, the CO2 level will be lowest since the plants would have been using it up all day. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Red algae, anyone???? Thanks to everyone for responding. No I do not inject C02 nor do I fertilize. I will test for nitrates tonight -- but don't know how to test for c02 levels. Thank you for the links, they were very interesting; but nothing looked like what I have -- although I'm not sure how long 2 to 3 mm is, I'm thinking it's longer than the fibers in this thin "film" (if it is made up of fibers). It's so tiny I can't see if it is comprised of fibers. You can see through it on the glass it's such a thin film, but it covers the entire glass and is not a clumping type algae. Very easy to scrape off with a razor blade -- kindof rolls up in front of the blade and floats away. Too tiny and fragile to remove from the tank once it's dislodged. It can easily be scraped off the drift wood with a finger nail (obviously too many convolutions in dw to use a razor blade.) I'm wondering about the cyanobacteria spoken of in one of the links below treated with erythromycin (sp.). It doesn't specifically mention what that treatment does to the fish and plants -- it did mention that it will kill the bacteria in a filter bed. What do you think about using it as an experiment just to see if it gets rid of this stuff? Maybe removing the bio filter and setting up a little box filter for the 24 hours or however long it takes? What about the fish and plants? Also appreciate the info on light. I can reduce the light - maybe turn it off when I leave for work and then turn it back on in the evening when I get home so I can enjoy the fish while I'm there. Boy, that should really confuse those angel fish! grin :-) I'm certainly no expert, but my plants (particularly vallisinera) seem to flourish with the long daylight hours -- so I'd like to cut back gradually to see how the plants react. So another option might be to turn the lights on at 7AM instead of 5AM and turn them off at 8PM instead of 9 or 10PM. That would cut back 3 hrs -- then if everything was still flourishing I could cut a couple more hours back. How does everyone else manage their lights when they work all day and want to enjoy their fish in the evening? BTW, I just have an ordinary florescent tank light over the tank -- nothing staged or fancy. I would also like to hear a little more about over filtering -- when I first started reading about aquariums, I read somewhere you couldn't have too much filtration on a tank (as long as the current was comfortable, that is). I'm getting ready to set up a 55 gal planted aquarium and would like to "get it right". (Plants are so darned expensive) I got the impression that my excessive filtration is leaching out the C02 for the plants, but wouldn't they be dying if that was the case? I'd like to ask a few questions about setting up this 55 gal but will start a new thread for that. Thanks again to everyone for the help! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Is this what you have, since you call it "Red algae"? > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/brush-algae.jpg <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/brush-algae.jpg> from... > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html> > > Or could it just be dying "green" algae turning brown? Never mind on this. > As I re-read your post, you have a brownish red film? Well, I guess that > could still be dying algae decaying. > > Red slime algae could also be cyanobacteria, also called BGA, blue- green > algae but there is a reddish colored variant also. > > The first thing that jumps out at me is your 16 hours of lighting. That is > excessive IMO. 8 to 12 hours is the most that I would ever give a simple > planted depending on the other trilogy factors... nutrient level and CO2 > level. Since you have a lot of circulation, your CO2 levels are probably > low. We don't know your nitrate levels but unless all three are balanced > properly, you will almost always get algae. Do you have CO2 injection? Are > you adding fertilizers? > > If you can test your nitrates and CO2 levels (see 1/2 way down on this > page... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm > <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm> ) it would help > but I think the first thing you need to do is shorten your light cycle. > > I try to mimic nature and I only have full lighting on for 6-8 hours a day > depending on my simple planted tanks... no CO2 injection and no special > nutrients added. For aquatic plants in nature, they do not get much of the > morning or afternoon/evening sunlight so they really only get full lighting > from around 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.... depending on the orientation to the equator > and seasonal adjustments in nature. I have room lighting on during the > early morning hours and late evening hours... or if you have more advanced > lighting, you could dial back the lighting on your tanks during those hours. > > Take a look at the pics on these pages to see if any of these algae are what > you are seeing. > http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9> > http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm > <http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Nedra > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Hi everyone, Appreciate any suggestions re: this annoying turn of events in > my "show" tank. How do I get rid of it? It's a mature tank (4 or 5 years > old) - 29Gal with two penguin filters rated for 50G. Ammonia, nitrites are > 0ppm. pH was 7.6, but I haven't tested it recently. I didn't test for > nitrates, but figure they are high enough to support plant life. > Fish are healthy - a breeding pair of angels that spawn every two weeks like > clock work, and guppies. Angels have actually raised fry on their own in > this tank; another reason I think the water quality is probably pretty good. > I don't know the hardness. I do not use aquarium salt or any chemicals > except Prime conditioner with water changes. I replace somewhere between > 10-40% of the water every week depending on how ambitious I feel on the > water change day. The tank is lit around 16 hours a day and that has not > changed over the years. I've had green algae but I'm not over run with it > and manage to control it with frequent water changes -- but this stuff; even > the snails don't seem to eat it and the otocinclus (sp.)wouldn't touch it > either. It seems to have knocked the green algae out of the tank -- enough > so that the little oto began sucking on the big male angel -- I think he was > very hungry and I've since moved him over to another tank where he can get > more food. > > I may have introduced this stuff feeding live blackworms? The tank was > planted with crypts and java moss on driftwood. > The brownish red film has moved onto the Malaysian driftwood and looks like > it may be growing on the java moss (not good). A few strands of the moss are > covered with the stuff. > Yesterday I added as many live plants as I could to the tank, thinking I > might starve it into submission. > Does anyone know where I got this stuff, and how to kill it without damaging > the plants (the java moss on the Malaysian d.w.) Sorry for being so "wordy" > -- I've tried to describe the water conditions to my best ability. > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 8:52:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30758	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 gal

Was the tank healthy? Do you know the history of the tank? If it was a healthy tank, then try not to let the filter stop running for more than an hour or so. If you do have to have it stopped for longer than that, then put the filter media above an air stone so it gets water movement around/through it which will help keep the nitrifying bacteria alive longer. While the gravel does contain certain beneficial bacteria, gravel was more important in the "old days" when UGF's (under gravel filters) were the primary filtration system. I understand that up to 40% of tanks still utilize a UGF so they're not gone completely but the recent trend has been towards canister filters and HOB's (hang on back power filters) so the majority of the nitrifying bacteria now lives in the filter media, rather than the gravel. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Setting up a 55 gal Hi everyone! This is a used tank and I'll be tearing it down and setting it up again (hopefully the same day). I plan to take the gravel out and transport it in buckets - no rinsing. I'll probably rinse the tank out with water only - might have to scrape the sides if it has lime or algae built up. But thought I could minimize or eliminate the cycle time if I use the existing gravel and am very careful with the bio filter during transport. What are your thoughts? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:00:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30759	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

My tank naturally stays at 80 degress f except at night, so I just keep my heater turned to that so it's a constant temp. Should I do a 10% tomorrow or more? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: grammypat@...: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:22:59 -0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Spike! Keep doing water changes and quit adding chemicals.The nitrites will go down in a day or 3 as part of the cycle. why is your tank so hot?Grammy Pat[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30760	From: henry puryear	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder?

The best I know of on aquabid is sillykillies. Never have had a problem with her eggs From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder? Where are you located, Alison? There may be a killie club near you, which will be a tremendous help to you. In any case go the www.thefishwizards.com, buy Tony's books, and look at the fish they offer. They also link to the AKA (American Killifish Association) so you can get a membership in that group (annual convention every Memorial Day weekend). Take a look at some of the killies they offer on the site. You will need to e-mail for a current list of fish they have. As far as trustworthy, they don't know any other way to live. I've known Tony for over 20 years, though we only see each other about once a year now that I don't live in New England any more. I've known Dave Rossi for a shorter period of time, and have not seen him for some time. Others here can probably vouch for the two as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alison Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:40 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Anyone know of a good Killifish breeder? I'm looking into getting a pair of Killifish, or maybe start some eggs. Does anyone know of a good reliable breeder? Alison Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Todays water

First I want to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying to Sarah Huss in this thread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in the same? Or maybe you switched email accounts since the Hotmail account was losing all of the formatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so I don't have to address you as "Hey You!" LOL It's interesting that the nitrates came down although it could just be the Jungle test strips not being as accurate but if you did use Prime, then it could possibly have an effect on the nitrate level as well. I think you should redo the baseline test and use your API test kit and Jungle test strips just so you can see how they compare. My previous comparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showed the test strips were very inconsistent in their readings. Is the GH coming out as 25 degrees of GH out the tap and then going down to 0 degrees after 24 hours? If so, then it's likely one or more of the buffers added by your utility that is giving a false positive right out the tap, then once it's exposed to air/light, it breaks down and/or dissipates out of the water. This means you really do not have to worry about it IMO as it will not likely affect your water parameters in your tank with 25% PWC's. For the KH, you look near perfect at 150ppm (apx. 8 dKH). This will constantly go down in your tank as well due to the ecology (bacteria, critters, plants, fish, etc.) of the tank using up the carbonates as part of their life cycles. It seems that all of your tests started out really high and then went down to more normal levels. I'm not sure if it's due to buffers in the tap water or the Jungle test strips. If you can duplicate the test using API's test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH, I think you would get more consistent numbers but I think your water is fine for the majority of fish out there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water Hi Lenny, I did a water base line like you suggested and the readings are as follows using Jungle test strips. Out of tap 24 hrs 48 hrs ---------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- NITRATE 20 10 10 NITRITE .5 0 0 GH 25 0 0 TOTAL CHLORINE 0 0 0 KH (Alkalinity) 300 150 150 PH 7.2 7.8 7.2 Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48 hrs (temp taken with digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were not taken. My initial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using API liquid test media). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date on bottle 0708). Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25% water changes in all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3 days later. A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be more active, and colors got more intense. Thanks, Bill Scott So. California. -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 10:35:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water OK. That's good that your ammonia is still at 0.0ppm. You really need to get that Nitrate test kit so you will know when your nitrite eating bacteria are starting to do their job. For the long run, you will use your nitrate test far more often than the ammonia and nitrite tests. Your nitrate test kit will be one of the tests that determine how often you need to do your PWC's and what percentage PWC you need to do to keep the water quality in good shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as my primary tests in establishing my routines on my tanks. If you are refilling your bottles at one of those machines, you want to do the 48 hour baseline test on that water as well so you can know what your starting point is going to be. While they might call it "spring water", all it is going to be is filtered tap water. I'm betting they didn't drill down into an underwater spring before putting the vending machine in place. ;-) If at some point in the future, you decide that is an inconvenience or the cost starts to add up, there are under-sink filter systems that will do the same thing. I've never worried about filtering my water before although when I did rescue a Betta after Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him to the water from my tap, but with the Pur water filter on since it wasn't much water being changed and I was doing daily 25% changes on his small vase until I was able to set up a 10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10G tank, I went back to using regular tap water for him. What kind of light do you have on your tank? If it's fluorescent, it does not put out much, if any heat. The bulbs are cool to the touch even when lit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do put out lots of heat so if you do not have a heater, that may be an option. You could also wrap the tank in a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at night and maybe only turn out the lights for four hours with the tank wrapped in a blanket. That would at least give the fish some dark time while not allowing the tank temp to drop down. You definitely want a heater for the tropical fish. If you read over the Mongabay profile http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> on the ID Shark (actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fish with poor eyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get very BIG so it could be that it is just looking for more food. Catfish are often scavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging for food. I do not see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quite often nocturnal but possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on the scientific name to read up more on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:52 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water My PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gotten my test for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stress coat in. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decided to use spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I will just take my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that the water isnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank. I just bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kicked it up this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, so it's going back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to it soon, because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with the fish more if I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get a working heater again? Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. It seems like he is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he is still like this when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do I just have a hyperactive fish? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water Oops.. I forgot to mention. Keep at least the "pinch per 10G" of salt levelin your tank while you are still having nitrite (NO2-) issues. You stillhave more than that level right now since you had added four tablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still have more than two tablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level is still 0 which means your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test your ammonia to make sure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Todays waterI filled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the35 gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and here aretodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0 (0)GH 8 (9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4 table spoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) I had since taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I know my tank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescue shark from a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright now I cannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds, I have nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has taken it all out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be gone and melafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I have heard great things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthat for future use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed that too and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoos group ratherthan my email.Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:16:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30762	From: Texas_Tears2000	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: apple snails

i have 8 of them.how can tell witch is male or female. what else do they eat besides: aglae,and fish food. is there certain way to raise them. bredd them? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30763	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Todays water

Yeah, Lenny, this wasnt me, Sarah. lol I did get a new heater though :-) Its a submersiable with a thermostat. My fishes will love me tonight. I also took your advice on your blog about doing surgery on my marineland 200 filter cartridge. This way I can still filter the water even if it has meds in it. I will just need to pick up some carbon to filter out the meds when needed. I'm making a trip to the pet store for it tomorrow, and would also like some new plants. Should I wait to add any and do some more water changes for the salt to be removed some more? Or should they be fine? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:16:58 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water First I want to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying to SarahHuss in this thread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in the same?Or maybe you switched email accounts since the Hotmail account was losingall of the formatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so I don'thave to address you as "Hey You!" LOLIt's interesting that the nitrates came down although it could just be theJungle test strips not being as accurate but if you did use Prime, then itcould possibly have an effect on the nitrate level as well.I think you should redo the baseline test and use your API test kit andJungle test strips just so you can see how they compare. My previouscomparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showed the test strips werevery inconsistent in their readings.Is the GH coming out as 25 degrees of GH out the tap and then going down to0 degrees after 24 hours? If so, then it's likely one or more of thebuffers added by your utility that is giving a false positive right out thetap, then once it's exposed to air/light, it breaks down and/or dissipatesout of the water. This means you really do not have to worry about it IMOas it will not likely affect your water parameters in your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH, you look near perfect at 150ppm (apx. 8 dKH). This willconstantly go down in your tank as well due to the ecology (bacteria,critters, plants, fish, etc.) of the tank using up the carbonates as part oftheir life cycles.It seems that all of your tests started out really high and then went downto more normal levels. I'm not sure if it's due to buffers in the tap wateror the Jungle test strips. If you can duplicate the test using API's testkits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH, I think you would getmore consistent numbers but I think your water is fine for the majority offish out there.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of William J. ScottSent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterHi Lenny,I did a water base line like you suggested and the readings are as followsusing Jungle test strips.Out of tap24 hrs 48 hrs------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NITRATE 2010 10NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 0 00KH (Alkalinity) 300150 150PH 7.27.8 7.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48 hrs (temp takenwith digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were not taken.My initial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using API liquid testmedia). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date on bottle 0708).Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25% water changesin all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3 days later.A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be more active, andcolors got more intense.Thanks,Bill ScottSo. California.-------Original Message-------From: Lenny V. aka GoldLennyDate: 9/30/2008 10:35:15 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That's good that your ammonia is still at 0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitrate test kit so you will know when your nitrite eating bacteriaare starting to do their job. For the long run, you will use your nitratetest far more often than the ammonia and nitrite tests. Your nitrate testkit will be one of the tests that determine how often you need to do yourPWC's and what percentage PWC you need to do to keep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as my primary tests in establishing myroutines on my tanks.If you are refilling your bottles at one of those machines, you want to dothe 48 hour baseline test on that water as well so you can know what yourstarting point is going to be. While they might call it "spring water", allit is going to be is filtered tap water. I'm betting they didn't drill downinto an underwater spring before putting the vending machine in place. ;-)If at some point in the future, you decide that is an inconvenience or thecost starts to add up, there are under-sink filter systems that will do thesame thing. I've never worried about filtering my water before althoughwhen I did rescue a Betta after Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothe water from my tap, but with the Pur water filter on since it wasn't muchwater being changed and I was doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntil I was able to set up a 10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank, I went back to using regular tap water for him.What kind of light do you have on your tank? If it's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if any heat. The bulbs are cool to the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do put out lots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that may be an option. You could also wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at night and maybe only turn outthe lights for four hours with the tank wrapped in a blanket. That would atleast give the fish some dark time while not allowing the tank temp to dropdown. You definitely want a heater for the tropical fish.If you read over the Mongabay profilehttp://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> on the IDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fish with pooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get very BIG so itcould be that it is just looking for more food. Catfish are oftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging for food. I donot see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quite often nocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on the scientific name toread up more on it.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:52 AMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays waterMy PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gotten mytest for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stress coatin. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decided touse spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I will justtake my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that the waterisnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank.I just bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kickedit up this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, soit's going back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to itsoon, because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with thefish more if I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get aworking heater again?Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. It seems likehe is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he is still likethis when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do I just have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Todays waterOops.. I forgot to mention. Keep at least the "pinch per 10G" of saltlevelin your tank while you are still having nitrite (NO2-) issues. Youstillhave more than that level right now since you had added fourtablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still have more than twotablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level is still 0 whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test your ammonia to makesure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Todays waterIfilled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the35gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and herearetodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0 (0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4 tablespoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) I hadsince taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I know mytank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescue sharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright now Icannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds, Ihave nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has taken itall out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be gone andmelafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I have heardgreat things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthat forfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed thattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoosgroup ratherthan my email.Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:16:58 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30764	From: harry perry	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 gal/Nedra

Use a test kit to determine if your idea worked. Harry --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Nedra <terrierlover2002@...> wrote: From: Nedra <terrierlover2002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Setting up a 55 gal To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 6:00 PM Hi everyone! This is a used tank and I'll be tearing it down and setting it up again (hopefully the same day). I plan to take the gravel out and transport it in buckets - no rinsing. I'll probably rinse the tank out with water only - might have to scrape the sides if it has lime or algae built up. But thought I could minimize or eliminate the cycle time if I use the existing gravel and am very careful with the bio filter during transport. What are your thoughts? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30765	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Sarah Huss' thread (was Re: Todays water) (that will keep them s

Hi Sarah, Yep... you got it right on the money with your filtration, carbon, etc. I would wait on adding plants until all of the fish are healthy and you've done enough PWC's to have removed the majority of the salt. Then, when buying your plants, do not add the plants to the tank until you've cleaned them and quarantined them to make sure they are snail free and disease free. To keep the plants "fed" while in quarantine, you can just remove some of the tank water with the higher nitrates, phosphates, etc. and use that for the plants. You can use a clean 5G bucket for the plants quarantine period and place it near a window but not in direct sun so they get enough lighting. Here's a couple of threads/articles on sanitizing plants that I have in my favorites folder. http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:24 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water Yeah, Lenny, this wasnt me, Sarah. lol I did get a new heater though :-) Its a submersiable with a thermostat. My fishes will love me tonight. I also took your advice on your blog about doing surgery on my marineland 200 filter cartridge. This way I can still filter the water even if it has meds in it. I will just need to pick up some carbon to filter out the meds when needed. I'm making a trip to the pet store for it tomorrow, and would also like some new plants. Should I wait to add any and do some more water changes for the salt to be removed some more? Or should they be fine? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:16:58 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water First I want to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying to SarahHuss in this thread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in the same?Or maybe you switched email accounts since the Hotmail account was losingall of the formatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so I don'thave to address you as "Hey You!" LOLIt's interesting that the nitrates came down although it could just be theJungle test strips not being as accurate but if you did use Prime, then itcould possibly have an effect on the nitrate level as well.I think you should redo the baseline test and use your API test kit andJungle test strips just so you can see how they compare. My previouscomparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showed the test strips werevery inconsistent in their readings.Is the GH coming out as 25 degrees of GH out the tap and then going down to0 degrees after 24 hours? If so, then it's likely one or more of thebuffers added by your utility that is giving a false positive right out thetap, then once it's exposed to air/light, it breaks down and/or dissipatesout of the water. This means you really do not have to worry about it IMOas it will not likely affect your water parameters in your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH, you look near perfect at 150ppm (apx. 8 dKH). This willconstantly go down in your tank as well due to the ecology (bacteria,critters, plants, fish, etc.) of the tank using up the carbonates as part oftheir life cycles.It seems that all of your tests started out really high and then went downto more normal levels. I'm not sure if it's due to buffers in the tap wateror the Jungle test strips. If you can duplicate the test using API's testkits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH, I think you would getmore consistent numbers but I think your water is fine for the majority offish out there.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of William J. ScottSent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterHi Lenny,I did a water base line like you suggested and the readings are as followsusing Jungle test strips.Out of tap24 hrs 48 hrs----------------------------------------------------------NITRATE 2010 10NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 0 00KH (Alkalinity) 300150 150PH 7.27.8 7.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48 hrs (temp takenwith digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were not taken.My initial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using API liquid testmedia). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date on bottle 0708).Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25% water changesin all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3 days later.A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be more active, andcolors got more intense.Thanks,Bill ScottSo. California.-------Original Message-------From: Lenny V. aka GoldLennyDate: 9/30/2008 10:35:15 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That's good that your ammonia is still at 0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitrate test kit so you will know when your nitrite eating bacteriaare starting to do their job. For the long run, you will use your nitratetest far more often than the ammonia and nitrite tests. Your nitrate testkit will be one of the tests that determine how often you need to do yourPWC's and what percentage PWC you need to do to keep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as my primary tests in establishing myroutines on my tanks.If you are refilling your bottles at one of those machines, you want to dothe 48 hour baseline test on that water as well so you can know what yourstarting point is going to be. While they might call it "spring water", allit is going to be is filtered tap water. I'm betting they didn't drill downinto an underwater spring before putting the vending machine in place. ;-)If at some point in the future, you decide that is an inconvenience or thecost starts to add up, there are under-sink filter systems that will do thesame thing. I've never worried about filtering my water before althoughwhen I did rescue a Betta after Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothe water from my tap, but with the Pur water filter on since it wasn't muchwater being changed and I was doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntil I was able to set up a 10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank, I went back to using regular tap water for him.What kind of light do you have on your tank? If it's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if any heat. The bulbs are cool to the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do put out lots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that may be an option. You could also wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at night and maybe only turn outthe lights for four hours with the tank wrapped in a blanket. That would atleast give the fish some dark time while not allowing the tank temp to dropdown. You definitely want a heater for the tropical fish.If you read over the Mongabay profilehttp://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <profilehttp://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > on the IDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fish with pooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get very BIG so itcould be that it is just looking for more food. Catfish are oftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging for food. I donot see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quite often nocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on the scientific name toread up more on it.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:52 AMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays waterMy PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gotten mytest for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stress coatin. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decided touse spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I will justtake my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that the waterisnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank.I just bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kickedit up this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, soit's going back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to itsoon, because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with thefish more if I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get aworking heater again?Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. It seems likehe is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he is still likethis when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do I just have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Todays waterOops.. I forgot to mention. Keep at least the "pinch per 10G" of saltlevelin your tank while you are still having nitrite (NO2-) issues. Youstillhave more than that level right now since you had added fourtablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still have more than twotablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level is still 0 whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test your ammonia to makesure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Todays waterIfilled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the35gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and herearetodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0 (0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4 tablespoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) I hadsince taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I know mytank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescue sharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright now Icannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds, Ihave nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has taken itall out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be gone andmelafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I have heardgreat things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthat forfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed thattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoosgroup ratherthan my email.Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:16:58 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:34:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:49:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30766	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: apple snails

For the most in-depth info on Apple Snails, I would go to http://www.Applesnail.net and read over all of the articles there. They have very well illustrated 3-D graphics for anatomy and sexing issues and they have a "What to feed" thread in their forums that really gets into the meat and potatoes of what an Applesnail should be fed and breeding questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Texas_Tears2000 Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] apple snails i have 8 of them.how can tell witch is male or female. what else do they eat besides: aglae,and fish food. is there certain way to raise them. bredd them? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:52:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30767	From: William J. Scott	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Base line test

Hi Lenny, Sorry for the confusion. No I'm not Sarah. I just could not find my thread so I just replied to the first one on my e mail server. The reason I used the Jungle test strips, was because it was all I could find. They did not have any more API test kits. With 37 tanks, the dip strips don't last me long, especially testing before & 12 hrs after water changes. I will be going to metropolitan Los Angeles this weekend, and should be able to pick up an API master test kit. I will do a new base line test next Monday. Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 7:17:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water First I want to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying to Sarah Huss in this thread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in the same? Or maybe you switched email accounts since the Hotmail account was losing all of the formatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so I don't have to address you as "Hey You!" LOL It's interesting that the nitrates came down although it could just be the Jungle test strips not being as accurate but if you did use Prime, then it could possibly have an effect on the nitrate level as well. I think you should redo the baseline test and use your API test kit and Jungle test strips just so you can see how they compare. My previous comparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showed the test strips were very inconsistent in their readings. Is the GH coming out as 25 degrees of GH out the tap and then going down to 0 degrees after 24 hours? If so, then it's likely one or more of the buffers added by your utility that is giving a false positive right out the tap, then once it's exposed to air/light, it breaks down and/or dissipates out of the water. This means you really do not have to worry about it IMO as it will not likely affect your water parameters in your tank with 25% PWC's. For the KH, you look near perfect at 150ppm (apx. 8 dKH). This will constantly go down in your tank as well due to the ecology (bacteria, critters, plants, fish, etc.) of the tank using up the carbonates as part of their life cycles. It seems that all of your tests started out really high and then went down to more normal levels. I'm not sure if it's due to buffers in the tap water or the Jungle test strips. If you can duplicate the test using API's test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH, I think you would get more consistent numbers but I think your water is fine for the majority of fish out there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water Hi Lenny, I did a water base line like you suggested and the readings are as follows using Jungle test strips. Out of tap 24 hrs 48 hrs ---------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- NITRATE 20 10 10 NITRITE .5 0 0 GH 25 0 0 TOTAL CHLORINE 0 0 0 KH (Alkalinity) 300 150 150 PH 7.2 7.8 7.2 Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48 hrs (temp taken with digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were not taken. My initial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using API liquid test media). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date on bottle 0708). Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25% water changes in all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3 days later. A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be more active, and colors got more intense. Thanks, Bill Scott So. California. -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 10:35:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water OK. That's good that your ammonia is still at 0.0ppm. You really need to get that Nitrate test kit so you will know when your nitrite eating bacteria are starting to do their job. For the long run, you will use your nitrate test far more often than the ammonia and nitrite tests. Your nitrate test kit will be one of the tests that determine how often you need to do your PWC's and what percentage PWC you need to do to keep the water quality in good shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as my primary tests in establishing my routines on my tanks. If you are refilling your bottles at one of those machines, you want to do the 48 hour baseline test on that water as well so you can know what your starting point is going to be. While they might call it "spring water", all it is going to be is filtered tap water. I'm betting they didn't drill down into an underwater spring before putting the vending machine in place. ;-) If at some point in the future, you decide that is an inconvenience or the cost starts to add up, there are under-sink filter systems that will do the same thing. I've never worried about filtering my water before although when I did rescue a Betta after Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him to the water from my tap, but with the Pur water filter on since it wasn't much water being changed and I was doing daily 25% changes on his small vase until I was able to set up a 10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10G tank, I went back to using regular tap water for him. What kind of light do you have on your tank? If it's fluorescent, it does not put out much, if any heat. The bulbs are cool to the touch even when lit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do put out lots of heat so if you do not have a heater, that may be an option. You could also wrap the tank in a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at night and maybe only turn out the lights for four hours with the tank wrapped in a blanket. That would at least give the fish some dark time while not allowing the tank temp to drop down. You definitely want a heater for the tropical fish. If you read over the Mongabay profile http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> on the ID Shark (actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fish with poor eyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get very BIG so it could be that it is just looking for more food. Catfish are often scavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging for food. I do not see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quite often nocturnal but possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on the scientific name to read up more on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:52 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water My PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gotten my test for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stress coat in. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decided to use spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I will just take my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that the water isnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank. I just bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kicked it up this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, so it's going back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to it soon, because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with the fish more if I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get a working heater again? Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. It seems like he is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he is still like this when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do I just have a hyperactive fish? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water Oops.. I forgot to mention. Keep at least the "pinch per 10G" of salt levelin your tank while you are still having nitrite (NO2-) issues. You stillhave more than that level right now since you had added four tablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still have more than two tablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level is still 0 which means your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test your ammonia to make sure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Todays waterI filled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the35 gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and here aretodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0 (0)GH 8 (9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4 table spoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) I had since taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I know my tank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescue shark from a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright now I cannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds, I have nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has taken it all out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be gone and melafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I have heard great things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthat for future use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed that too and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoos group ratherthan my email.Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:16:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30768	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Nitrite Spike!

My tank naturally stays at 80 degress f except at night, so I just keep my heater turned to that so it's a constant temp. Should I do a 10% tomorrow or more? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: grammypat@...: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:22:59 -0500Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Spike! Keep doing water changes and quit adding chemicals.The nitrites will go down in a day or 3 as part of the cycle. why is your tank so hot?Grammy Pat[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30769	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2008
Subject: Re: Base line test

Yeah... dip strips are outrageously priced when compared to the number of tests one would get from an API Master Test Kit or one of the other brands. I find that PetsMart.com has a good price on the API Freshwater Master Test Kit and the local stores will match their online prices if you print the webpage. Last time I looked, the website price was around $15 - $17. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Base line test Hi Lenny, Sorry for the confusion. No I'm not Sarah. I just could not find my thread so I just replied to the first one on my e mail server. The reason I used the Jungle test strips, was because it was all I could find. They did not have any more API test kits. With 37 tanks, the dip strips don't last me long, especially testing before & 12 hrs after water changes. I will be going to metropolitan Los Angeles this weekend, and should be able to pick up an API master test kit. I will do a new base line test next Monday. Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 7:17:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water First I want to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying to Sarah Huss in this thread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in the same? Or maybe you switched email accounts since the Hotmail account was losing all of the formatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so I don't have to address you as "Hey You!" LOL It's interesting that the nitrates came down although it could just be the Jungle test strips not being as accurate but if you did use Prime, then it could possibly have an effect on the nitrate level as well. I think you should redo the baseline test and use your API test kit and Jungle test strips just so you can see how they compare. My previous comparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showed the test strips were very inconsistent in their readings. Is the GH coming out as 25 degrees of GH out the tap and then going down to 0 degrees after 24 hours? If so, then it's likely one or more of the buffers added by your utility that is giving a false positive right out the tap, then once it's exposed to air/light, it breaks down and/or dissipates out of the water. This means you really do not have to worry about it IMO as it will not likely affect your water parameters in your tank with 25% PWC's. For the KH, you look near perfect at 150ppm (apx. 8 dKH). This will constantly go down in your tank as well due to the ecology (bacteria, critters, plants, fish, etc.) of the tank using up the carbonates as part of their life cycles. It seems that all of your tests started out really high and then went down to more normal levels. I'm not sure if it's due to buffers in the tap water or the Jungle test strips. If you can duplicate the test using API's test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH, I think you would get more consistent numbers but I think your water is fine for the majority of fish out there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water Hi Lenny, I did a water base line like you suggested and the readings are as follows using Jungle test strips. Out of tap 24 hrs 48 hrs ---------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- NITRATE 20 10 10 NITRITE .5 0 0 GH 25 0 0 TOTAL CHLORINE 0 0 0 KH (Alkalinity) 300 150 150 PH 7.2 7.8 7.2 Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48 hrs (temp taken with digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were not taken. My initial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using API liquid test media). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date on bottle 0708). Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25% water changes in all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3 days later. A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be more active, and colors got more intense. Thanks, Bill Scott So. California. -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 10:35:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water OK. That's good that your ammonia is still at 0.0ppm. You really need to get that Nitrate test kit so you will know when your nitrite eating bacteria are starting to do their job. For the long run, you will use your nitrate test far more often than the ammonia and nitrite tests. Your nitrate test kit will be one of the tests that determine how often you need to do your PWC's and what percentage PWC you need to do to keep the water quality in good shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as my primary tests in establishing my routines on my tanks. If you are refilling your bottles at one of those machines, you want to do the 48 hour baseline test on that water as well so you can know what your starting point is going to be. While they might call it "spring water", all it is going to be is filtered tap water. I'm betting they didn't drill down into an underwater spring before putting the vending machine in place. ;-) If at some point in the future, you decide that is an inconvenience or the cost starts to add up, there are under-sink filter systems that will do the same thing. I've never worried about filtering my water before although when I did rescue a Betta after Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him to the water from my tap, but with the Pur water filter on since it wasn't much water being changed and I was doing daily 25% changes on his small vase until I was able to set up a 10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10G tank, I went back to using regular tap water for him. What kind of light do you have on your tank? If it's fluorescent, it does not put out much, if any heat. The bulbs are cool to the touch even when lit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do put out lots of heat so if you do not have a heater, that may be an option. You could also wrap the tank in a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at night and maybe only turn out the lights for four hours with the tank wrapped in a blanket. That would at least give the fish some dark time while not allowing the tank temp to drop down. You definitely want a heater for the tropical fish. If you read over the Mongabay profile http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > on the ID Shark (actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fish with poor eyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get very BIG so it could be that it is just looking for more food. Catfish are often scavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging for food. I do not see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quite often nocturnal but possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on the scientific name to read up more on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:52 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water My PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gotten my test for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stress coat in. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decided to use spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I will just take my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that the water isnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank. I just bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kicked it up this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, so it's going back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to it soon, because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with the fish more if I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get a working heater again? Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. It seems like he is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he is still like this when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do I just have a hyperactive fish? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water Oops.. I forgot to mention. Keep at least the "pinch per 10G" of salt levelin your tank while you are still having nitrite (NO2-) issues. You stillhave more than that level right now since you had added four tablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still have more than two tablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level is still 0 which means your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test your ammonia to make sure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Todays waterI filled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the35 gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and here aretodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0 (0)GH 8 (9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4 table spoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) I had since taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I know my tank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescue shark from a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright now I cannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds, I have nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has taken it all out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be gone and melafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I have heard great things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthat for future use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed that too and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoos group ratherthan my email.Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:16:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 10:04:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 10:22:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.